# Ramsey Show Master Transcript Book

This book contains the compiled study transcripts for the @ramsey_show YouTube channel.

## Table of Contents

- [1. "My Boyfriend Won't Marry Me Until I Pay Off All My Debt" | November 17, 2025](#1-my-boyfriend-wont-marry-me-until-i-pay-off-all-my-debt-november-17-2025)
- [2. "My Debt Payment is 50% of My Income" | November 3, 2025](#2-my-debt-payment-is-50-of-my-income-november-3-2025)
- [3. "Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?" | December 5, 2025](#3-should-i-open-up-a-secret-bank-account-to-protect-myself-december-5-2025)
- [4. A Financial Plan Only Works If It Matches Your Reality | December 25, 2025](#4-a-financial-plan-only-works-if-it-matches-your-reality-december-25-2025)
- [5. A Financial Reset Is Better Than Staying Broke | November 20, 2025](#5-a-financial-reset-is-better-than-staying-broke-november-20-2025)
- [6. A Late Start Doesn’t Mean a Lost Cause | January 19, 2026](#6-a-late-start-doesnt-mean-a-lost-cause-january-19-2026)
- [7. A Life Built on Debt Is a Life Built on Risk | April 29, 2026](#7-a-life-built-on-debt-is-a-life-built-on-risk-april-29-2026)
- [8. A Proven Plan Beats A Quick Fix Every Time | August 27, 2025](#8-a-proven-plan-beats-a-quick-fix-every-time-august-27-2025)
- [9. A Written Plan Will Always Keep You On Track | October 9, 2025](#9-a-written-plan-will-always-keep-you-on-track-october-9-2025)
- [10. Are You Investing in Tomorrow or Robbing It? | September 24, 2025](#10-are-you-investing-in-tomorrow-or-robbing-it-september-24-2025)
- [11. Are You Ready To Live Differently To Win? | February 25, 2026](#11-are-you-ready-to-live-differently-to-win-february-25-2026)
- [12. Before You Can Win With Money You Need To Make a PLAN | November 4, 2025](#12-before-you-can-win-with-money-you-need-to-make-a-plan-november-4-2025)
- [13. Big Incomes Don’t Cancel Out Bad Decisions | September 1, 2025](#13-big-incomes-dont-cancel-out-bad-decisions-september-1-2025)
- [14. Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions | October 29, 2025](#14-big-paychecks-wont-fix-dumb-financial-decisions-october-29-2025)
- [15. Bigger Financial Problems Leave Less Room for Bad Decisions](#15-bigger-financial-problems-leave-less-room-for-bad-decisions)
- [16. Break The Cycle And Build Wealth | March 30, 2026](#16-break-the-cycle-and-build-wealth-march-30-2026)
- [17. Break The Debt Spiral And Regain Your Life | March 11, 2026](#17-break-the-debt-spiral-and-regain-your-life-march-11-2026)
- [18. Build Wealth Faster by Understanding Opportunity Cost | March 10, 2026](#18-build-wealth-faster-by-understanding-opportunity-cost-march-10-2026)
- [19. Building Wealth Is Simple (But Not Easy) | March 5, 2026](#19-building-wealth-is-simple-but-not-easy-march-5-2026)
- [20. Building Wealth Means Learning the Art Of Patience | November 10, 2025](#20-building-wealth-means-learning-the-art-of-patience-november-10-2025)
- [21. Building Wealth Requires a Long-Term Investing Mindset | June 2, 2026](#21-building-wealth-requires-a-long-term-investing-mindset-june-2-2026)
- [22. Can Trump’s Plan Clean Up America’s Financial Mess?](#22-can-trumps-plan-clean-up-americas-financial-mess)
- [23. Change Starts Today. Don’t Wait Till You’re 65 and Broke | August 20, 2025](#23-change-starts-today-dont-wait-till-youre-65-and-broke-august-20-2025)
- [24. Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026](#24-clarity-with-money-brings-peace-at-every-stage-of-life-january-23-2026)
- [25. Comfort Is The Enemy Of Progress - Attack Your Debt Now! | January 12, 2026](#25-comfort-is-the-enemy-of-progress---attack-your-debt-now-january-12-2026)
- [26. Debt Always Comes With Strings Attached | September 9, 2025](#26-debt-always-comes-with-strings-attached-september-9-2025)
- [27. Debt Is A Solvable Math Problem | November 13, 2025](#27-debt-is-a-solvable-math-problem-november-13-2025)
- [28. Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom | September 17, 2025](#28-debt-is-the-enemy-of-your-freedom-september-17-2025)
- [29. Debt Isn't The Problem - Your Mindset Is | The Ramsey Show (Best-Of for March 24, 2025)](#29-debt-isnt-the-problem---your-mindset-is-the-ramsey-show-best-of-for-march-24-2025)
- [30. Debt Only Holds You Back, It Never Propels You Forward | January 15, 2026](#30-debt-only-holds-you-back-it-never-propels-you-forward-january-15-2026)
- [31. Debt Robs Your Life of Margin | May 11, 2026](#31-debt-robs-your-life-of-margin-may-11-2026)
- [32. Debt Steals Your Freedom - Fight For Financial Peace | December 10, 2025](#32-debt-steals-your-freedom---fight-for-financial-peace-december-10-2025)
- [33. Discipline Matters Most in the Hard Times | August 29, 2025](#33-discipline-matters-most-in-the-hard-times-august-29-2025)
- [34. Discipline Today Can Rewrite Your Financial Future | February 17, 2026](#34-discipline-today-can-rewrite-your-financial-future-february-17-2026)
- [35. Discipline Today Creates Freedom Tomorrow | November 12, 2025](#35-discipline-today-creates-freedom-tomorrow-november-12-2025)
- [36. Discipline With Money Leads To More Control | April 27, 2026](#36-discipline-with-money-leads-to-more-control-april-27-2026)
- [37. Do the Right Thing Even When It’s Hard | September 19, 2025](#37-do-the-right-thing-even-when-its-hard-september-19-2025)
- [38. Don't Allow Your Relationships To Become Transactional | November 6, 2025](#38-dont-allow-your-relationships-to-become-transactional-november-6-2025)
- [39. Don't Get Pulled Into the Gravitational Pull of Drama | February 24, 2026](#39-dont-get-pulled-into-the-gravitational-pull-of-drama-february-24-2026)
- [40. Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future | April 6, 2026](#40-dont-let-debt-steal-your-future-april-6-2026)
- [41. Don't Let Fear Drive Your Financial Decisions | April 7, 2026](#41-dont-let-fear-drive-your-financial-decisions-april-7-2026)
- [42. Don't Let People's Opinions Influence Your Financial Decisions | May 8, 2026](#42-dont-let-peoples-opinions-influence-your-financial-decisions-may-8-2026)
- [43. Don’t Go Broke Trying To Keep The Peace | July 4, 2025](#43-dont-go-broke-trying-to-keep-the-peace-july-4-2025)
- [44. Don’t Let Money Chaos Run Your Life | February 16, 2026](#44-dont-let-money-chaos-run-your-life-february-16-2026)
- [45. Don’t Let Money Drama Keep You Broke | September 16, 2025](#45-dont-let-money-drama-keep-you-broke-september-16-2025)
- [46. Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan | September 10, 2025](#46-dont-let-panic-derail-your-plan-september-10-2025)
- [47. Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis | March 17, 2026](#47-dont-let-a-lack-of-boundaries-turn-into-a-money-crisis-march-17-2026)
- [48. Don’t Quit When the Journey Gets Hard | September 25, 2025](#48-dont-quit-when-the-journey-gets-hard-september-25-2025)
- [49. Dumb Financial Decisions Stunt Your Financial Growth | October 15, 2025](#49-dumb-financial-decisions-stunt-your-financial-growth-october-15-2025)
- [50. Dwelling On Past Mistakes Won't Benefit Your Future Growth | January 13, 2026](#50-dwelling-on-past-mistakes-wont-benefit-your-future-growth-january-13-2026)
- [51. Early Money Decisions Shape Your Financial Future | December 31, 2025](#51-early-money-decisions-shape-your-financial-future-december-31-2025)
- [52. Face Debt Head-On Before It Destroys Your Family | Best-Of for March 28, 2025](#52-face-debt-head-on-before-it-destroys-your-family-best-of-for-march-28-2025)
- [53. Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding | February 6, 2026](#53-face-the-debt-youve-been-avoiding-february-6-2026)
- [54. Fear Doesn't Call The Shots On Your Finances | June 3, 2026](#54-fear-doesnt-call-the-shots-on-your-finances-june-3-2026)
- [55. Finance Hacks Won’t Save You, Habits Will | March 12, 2026](#55-finance-hacks-wont-save-you-habits-will-march-12-2026)
- [56. Financial Control Starts with Honest Conversations | February 19, 2026](#56-financial-control-starts-with-honest-conversations-february-19-2026)
- [57. Financial Freedom Gives You Safety, Not Risk | February 23, 2026](#57-financial-freedom-gives-you-safety-not-risk-february-23-2026)
- [58. Financial Irresponsibility Always Has a Cost | April 8, 2026](#58-financial-irresponsibility-always-has-a-cost-april-8-2026)
- [59. Financial Momentum Starts With a Shift in Perspective | May 14, 2026](#59-financial-momentum-starts-with-a-shift-in-perspective-may-14-2026)
- [60. Financial Pain Creates Real Change | June 1, 2026](#60-financial-pain-creates-real-change-june-1-2026)
- [61. Financial Peace Requires More Than Good Intentions | May 20, 2026](#61-financial-peace-requires-more-than-good-intentions-may-20-2026)
- [62. Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty | March 19, 2026](#62-financial-peace-starts-with-personal-honesty-march-19-2026)
- [63. Financial Shortcuts Won't Build Longterm Wealth | January 21, 2026](#63-financial-shortcuts-wont-build-longterm-wealth-january-21-2026)
- [64. Financial Stability Is Crucial When Life Feels Uncertain | February 12, 2026](#64-financial-stability-is-crucial-when-life-feels-uncertain-february-12-2026)
- [65. Financial Stability Starts With Changing How You Think About Money | May 25, 2026](#65-financial-stability-starts-with-changing-how-you-think-about-money-may-25-2026)
- [66. Financial Victories Don't Happen Without Sacrifices | December 16, 2025](#66-financial-victories-dont-happen-without-sacrifices-december-16-2025)
- [67. Financial Wisdom Replaces Fear With Peace | June 12, 2025](#67-financial-wisdom-replaces-fear-with-peace-june-12-2025)
- [68. Fix The Money Mess That’s Stressing You Out | May 29, 2026](#68-fix-the-money-mess-thats-stressing-you-out-may-29-2026)
- [69. Fix Your Own Financial House Before Funding Someone Else’s | March 2, 2026](#69-fix-your-own-financial-house-before-funding-someone-elses-march-2-2026)
- [70. Focus On What You Can Control And Start Crushing Debt | March 16, 2026](#70-focus-on-what-you-can-control-and-start-crushing-debt-march-16-2026)
- [71. Focused Intensity Is The Only Way To Make Financial Progress | November 19, 2025](#71-focused-intensity-is-the-only-way-to-make-financial-progress-november-19-2025)
- [72. Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go | November 11, 2025](#72-follow-a-proven-plan-quit-making-it-up-as-you-go-november-11-2025)
- [73. Freedom Comes After the Hard Decisions | February 2, 2026](#73-freedom-comes-after-the-hard-decisions-february-2-2026)
- [74. Gambling with Your Future Is a Losing Game | August 14, 2025](#74-gambling-with-your-future-is-a-losing-game-august-14-2025)
- [75. Get Out of Survival Mode So You Can Finally Move Forward | December 4, 2025](#75-get-out-of-survival-mode-so-you-can-finally-move-forward-december-4-2025)
- [76. Get Your Finances In Order Now So You Can Enjoy Your Life Later | January 8, 2026](#76-get-your-finances-in-order-now-so-you-can-enjoy-your-life-later-january-8-2026)
- [77. Get in the Driver’s Seat of Your Own Life | April 28, 2026](#77-get-in-the-drivers-seat-of-your-own-life-april-28-2026)
- [78. Getting Clarity Around Your Money Changes Everything | January 2, 2026](#78-getting-clarity-around-your-money-changes-everything-january-2-2026)
- [79. Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026](#79-getting-out-of-debt-requires-radical-change-february-10-2026)
- [80. Getting Out of Debt Takes More Effort Than It Took to Get You In | April 21, 2026](#80-getting-out-of-debt-takes-more-effort-than-it-took-to-get-you-in-april-21-2026)
- [81. Good Intentions Aren’t Enough—Be Intentional With Your Money | December 23, 2025](#81-good-intentions-arent-enoughbe-intentional-with-your-money-december-23-2025)
- [82. Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later | January 6, 2026](#82-hard-decisions-now-prevent-harder-consequences-later-january-6-2026)
- [83. Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt | September 22, 2025](#83-hope-always-lives-on-the-other-side-of-hurt-september-22-2025)
- [84. How The Baby Steps Protect You From Financial Uncertainty | (Best-Of for March 25, 2025](#84-how-the-baby-steps-protect-you-from-financial-uncertainty-best-of-for-march-25-2025)
- [85. If Nothing Changes Your Money Won't Change | March 26, 2026](#85-if-nothing-changes-your-money-wont-change-march-26-2026)
- [86. If You Don’t Stand for Something, Your Money Will Fall for Anything | August 28, 2025](#86-if-you-dont-stand-for-something-your-money-will-fall-for-anything-august-28-2025)
- [87. If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset | September 8, 2025](#87-if-you-feel-stuck-its-time-for-a-reset-september-8-2025)
- [88. If You Want To Do Great Things You Need To Do Hard Things First | October 6, 2025](#88-if-you-want-to-do-great-things-you-need-to-do-hard-things-first-october-6-2025)
- [89. If You Want Wealth, Stop Being Dumb With Money | May 18, 2026](#89-if-you-want-wealth-stop-being-dumb-with-money-may-18-2026)
- [90. If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke | March 6, 2026](#90-if-youre-waiting-for-the-right-time-youll-stay-broke-march-6-2026)
- [91. Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is | April 9, 2026](#91-income-isnt-the-problemyour-money-plan-is-april-9-2026)
- [92. Intentional Choices Create Peace in the Chaos | May 6, 2026](#92-intentional-choices-create-peace-in-the-chaos-may-6-2026)
- [93. Is the American Dream Officially Dead? w/ @BenShapiro](#93-is-the-american-dream-officially-dead-w-benshapiro)
- [94. It’s Never Too Late To Retire With Dignity | November 14, 2025](#94-its-never-too-late-to-retire-with-dignity-november-14-2025)
- [95. It’s Not Too Late to Get Control of Your Money | September 30, 2025](#95-its-not-too-late-to-get-control-of-your-money-september-30-2025)
- [96. It’s Time To Set Boundaries And Start Saying “No!” | December 3, 2025](#96-its-time-to-set-boundaries-and-start-saying-no-december-3-2025)
- [97. It’s Time To Stop Surviving And Start Winning With Money | October 24, 2025](#97-its-time-to-stop-surviving-and-start-winning-with-money-october-24-2025)
- [98. It’s Time to Go Scorched Earth on Your Debt | February 3, 2026](#98-its-time-to-go-scorched-earth-on-your-debt-february-3-2026)
- [99. Lean Into Hard Things—That’s Where Change Happens | October 31, 2025](#99-lean-into-hard-thingsthats-where-change-happens-october-31-2025)
- [100. Learn When To Move From Intensity To Intentionality | March 31, 2026](#100-learn-when-to-move-from-intensity-to-intentionality-march-31-2026)
- [101. Life Happens — Don’t Let It Wreck Your Finances | August 15, 2025](#101-life-happens-dont-let-it-wreck-your-finances-august-15-2025)
- [102. Live from Charlotte: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 5, 2026](#102-live-from-charlotte-the-ramsey-show-on-tour-may-5-2026)
- [103. Live from Phoenix: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 21, 2026](#103-live-from-phoenix-the-ramsey-show-on-tour-may-21-2026)
- [104. Lose the Ego, Win With Money | August 7, 2025](#104-lose-the-ego-win-with-money-august-7-2025)
- [105. Make Sacrifices Today To Achieve Your Financial Goals | October 3, 2025](#105-make-sacrifices-today-to-achieve-your-financial-goals-october-3-2025)
- [106. Make The Most of Your Financial Choices—They Matter | December 22, 2025](#106-make-the-most-of-your-financial-choicesthey-matter-december-22-2025)
- [107. Make The Right Decision Today—Your Future Will Thank You | December 26, 2025](#107-make-the-right-decision-todayyour-future-will-thank-you-december-26-2025)
- [108. Managing Money Well Matters At Every Income Level | February 27, 2026](#108-managing-money-well-matters-at-every-income-level-february-27-2026)
- [109. Money Chaos Doesn’t Have to Be Forever | September 18, 2025](#109-money-chaos-doesnt-have-to-be-forever-september-18-2025)
- [110. Money Is A Symptom Of The Chaos You Haven’t Faced | November 25, 2025](#110-money-is-a-symptom-of-the-chaos-you-havent-faced-november-25-2025)
- [111. Money Is Just as Emotional as It Is Mathematical | January 22, 2026](#111-money-is-just-as-emotional-as-it-is-mathematical-january-22-2026)
- [112. Money Issues Aren't the Problem, They’re the Symptom | August 18, 2025](#112-money-issues-arent-the-problem-theyre-the-symptom-august-18-2025)
- [113. Money Magnifies What You Already Are | September 3, 2025](#113-money-magnifies-what-you-already-are-september-3-2025)
- [114. Money Stress Isn’t Always About Money | Best-Of for April 18, 2025](#114-money-stress-isnt-always-about-money-best-of-for-april-18-2025)
- [115. Money Turns Family Drama Into Financial Disaster | January 5, 2026](#115-money-turns-family-drama-into-financial-disaster-january-5-2026)
- [116. My Fiancé Broke Off Our Engagement Because Of My Money Habits | February 5, 2026](#116-my-fianc-broke-off-our-engagement-because-of-my-money-habits-february-5-2026)
- [117. No Amount Of Debt Is Too Big For A Comeback | July 3, 2025](#117-no-amount-of-debt-is-too-big-for-a-comeback-july-3-2025)
- [118. No Matter Your Income, You Can Still Build Wealth | May 28, 2026](#118-no-matter-your-income-you-can-still-build-wealth-may-28-2026)
- [119. No Matter Your Income, You Have To Know Where Your Money Is Going | August 22, 2025](#119-no-matter-your-income-you-have-to-know-where-your-money-is-going-august-22-2025)
- [120. No One Makes Good Decisions out of Fear or Desperation | December 18, 2025](#120-no-one-makes-good-decisions-out-of-fear-or-desperation-december-18-2025)
- [121. Normal Is Broke—Don't be Normal! | October 28, 2025](#121-normal-is-brokedont-be-normal-october-28-2025)
- [122. Nothing Destroys Your Finances Faster Than Broken Trust | November 28, 2025](#122-nothing-destroys-your-finances-faster-than-broken-trust-november-28-2025)
- [123. Own Your Choices, Starting Now | April 24, 2026](#123-own-your-choices-starting-now-april-24-2026)
- [124. Own Your Circumstances or They’ll Own You | February 18, 2026](#124-own-your-circumstances-or-theyll-own-you-february-18-2026)
- [125. Panic Never Leads to Peace | August 6, 2025](#125-panic-never-leads-to-peace-august-6-2025)
- [126. Peace Of Mind Will Always Override Taking On Debt | November 21, 2025](#126-peace-of-mind-will-always-override-taking-on-debt-november-21-2025)
- [127. Protect Your Wallet From Other People’s Chaos | August 12, 2025](#127-protect-your-wallet-from-other-peoples-chaos-august-12-2025)
- [128. Quiet The Chaos And Solve For Peace | January 16, 2026](#128-quiet-the-chaos-and-solve-for-peace-january-16-2026)
- [129. Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money | October 8, 2025](#129-quit-blaming-your-past-and-take-control-of-your-money-october-8-2025)
- [130. Quit Letting Dumb Money Decisions Hold You Back | December 17, 2025](#130-quit-letting-dumb-money-decisions-hold-you-back-december-17-2025)
- [131. Quit Sabotaging Your Finances And Build Wealth | March 20, 2026](#131-quit-sabotaging-your-finances-and-build-wealth-march-20-2026)
- [132. Risk Is Always Part of the Equation When Taking On Debt | January 26, 2026](#132-risk-is-always-part-of-the-equation-when-taking-on-debt-january-26-2026)
- [133. Rock Bottom Doesn’t Have to Define Your Financial Future | May 7, 2026](#133-rock-bottom-doesnt-have-to-define-your-financial-future-may-7-2026)
- [134. Short-Term Sacrifice Leads to Long-Term Financial Freedom | May 19, 2026](#134-short-term-sacrifice-leads-to-long-term-financial-freedom-may-19-2026)
- [135. Shortcuts Won’t Help You Get Ahead With Money | May 4, 2026](#135-shortcuts-wont-help-you-get-ahead-with-money-may-4-2026)
- [136. Slow and Steady Beats Get Rich Quick | September 15, 2025](#136-slow-and-steady-beats-get-rich-quick-september-15-2025)
- [137. Small Financial Wins Lead To Big Financial Impact | March 27, 2026](#137-small-financial-wins-lead-to-big-financial-impact-march-27-2026)
- [138. Small Steps Lead to Big Change | September 29, 2025](#138-small-steps-lead-to-big-change-september-29-2025)
- [139. Solve for Peace Instead of Screwing Around With Debt | August 21, 2025](#139-solve-for-peace-instead-of-screwing-around-with-debt-august-21-2025)
- [140. Start Telling Your Money Where To Go | April 10, 2026](#140-start-telling-your-money-where-to-go-april-10-2026)
- [141. Steady Habits Build Lasting Wealth | May 12, 2026](#141-steady-habits-build-lasting-wealth-may-12-2026)
- [142. Stop Avoiding The Hard Truth About Your Finances | April 1, 2026](#142-stop-avoiding-the-hard-truth-about-your-finances-april-1-2026)
- [143. Stop Being Normal, Attack Your Debt Now! | August 5, 2025](#143-stop-being-normal-attack-your-debt-now-august-5-2025)
- [144. Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change! | December 8, 2025](#144-stop-being-sick-and-tireddecide-to-change-december-8-2025)
- [145. Stop Chasing Payments and Choose Freedom | October 30, 2025](#145-stop-chasing-payments-and-choose-freedom-october-30-2025)
- [146. Stop Excusing Debt as a Dream | August 26, 2025](#146-stop-excusing-debt-as-a-dream-august-26-2025)
- [147. Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money | December 15, 2025](#147-stop-hoping-someone-else-will-fix-your-money-december-15-2025)
- [148. Stop Ignoring The Financial Red Flags In Your Life | November 24, 2025](#148-stop-ignoring-the-financial-red-flags-in-your-life-november-24-2025)
- [149. Stop Letting Dumb Decisions Control Your Financial Future | March 18, 2026](#149-stop-letting-dumb-decisions-control-your-financial-future-march-18-2026)
- [150. Stop Letting Emotions Drive Your Money Decisions | April 30, 2026](#150-stop-letting-emotions-drive-your-money-decisions-april-30-2026)
- [151. Stop Letting Emotions Ruin Your Finances | February 11, 2026](#151-stop-letting-emotions-ruin-your-finances-february-11-2026)
- [152. Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money | November 27, 2025](#152-stop-letting-fear-drive-your-money-november-27-2025)
- [153. Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances | (Best-Of for March 21, 2025)](#153-stop-letting-other-peoples-problems-ruin-your-finances-best-of-for-march-21-2025)
- [154. Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances | October 23, 2025](#154-stop-letting-other-people-wreck-your-finances-october-23-2025)
- [155. Stop Letting Yesterday's Mistakes Control Today's Decisions | March 3, 2026](#155-stop-letting-yesterdays-mistakes-control-todays-decisions-march-3-2026)
- [156. Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck—Start Living With Options | April 22, 2026](#156-stop-living-paycheck-to-paycheckstart-living-with-options-april-22-2026)
- [157. Stop Looking For The Financial Shortcut—Start Doing the Work | December 9, 2025](#157-stop-looking-for-the-financial-shortcutstart-doing-the-work-december-9-2025)
- [158. Stop Making Excuses for Bad Money Choices | August 4, 2025](#158-stop-making-excuses-for-bad-money-choices-august-4-2025)
- [159. Stop Starting Over and Break the Cycle for Good | May 26, 2026](#159-stop-starting-over-and-break-the-cycle-for-good-may-26-2026)
- [160. Stop Trying To Borrow Your Way Into Freedom | September 26, 2025](#160-stop-trying-to-borrow-your-way-into-freedom-september-26-2025)
- [161. Surviving the Money Storm Starts with Tough Choices | Best-Of for March 27, 2025](#161-surviving-the-money-storm-starts-with-tough-choices-best-of-for-march-27-2025)
- [162. Take Control Of Your Money Before It Takes Control Of You | August 13, 2025](#162-take-control-of-your-money-before-it-takes-control-of-you-august-13-2025)
- [163. Take Control of Your Finances by Setting Boundaries | February 9, 2026](#163-take-control-of-your-finances-by-setting-boundaries-february-9-2026)
- [164. Take Ownership Of Where Your Life Is Headed | February 20, 2026](#164-take-ownership-of-where-your-life-is-headed-february-20-2026)
- [165. Take The First Step Toward Financial Freedom Today | April 23, 2026](#165-take-the-first-step-toward-financial-freedom-today-april-23-2026)
- [166. The All-New EveryDollar: Where Margin Meets Momentum](#166-the-all-new-everydollar-where-margin-meets-momentum)
- [167. The Annual Giving Show: A Celebration of Radical Generosity | December 19, 2025](#167-the-annual-giving-show-a-celebration-of-radical-generosity-december-19-2025)
- [168. The Best Financial Plans Don’t Rely On Debt | May 27, 2026](#168-the-best-financial-plans-dont-rely-on-debt-may-27-2026)
- [169. The Dave Ramsey Show (REPLAY from January 5, 2021)](#169-the-dave-ramsey-show-replay-from-january-5-2021)
- [170. The Dave Ramsey Show (Replay from November 20, 2020)](#170-the-dave-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-20-2020)
- [171. The Hard Road Is The One That Moves You Forward | December 1, 2025](#171-the-hard-road-is-the-one-that-moves-you-forward-december-1-2025)
- [172. The Most Loving Thing You Can Do Is Be Honest About Money | May 27, 2025](#172-the-most-loving-thing-you-can-do-is-be-honest-about-money-may-27-2025)
- [173. The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026](#173-the-only-hack-to-paying-off-debt-is-doing-the-hard-work-january-7-2026)
- [174. The Payment Mentality Is Keeping You Broke | April 14, 2026](#174-the-payment-mentality-is-keeping-you-broke-april-14-2026)
- [175. The Ramsey Show (June 9, 2023)](#175-the-ramsey-show-june-9-2023)
- [176. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-12-23)](#176-the-ramsey-show-previously-recorded-9-12-23)
- [177. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-7-23)](#177-the-ramsey-show-previously-recorded-9-7-23)
- [178. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY)](#178-the-ramsey-show-replay)
- [179. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 25, 2023)](#179-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-25-2023)
- [180. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 26, 2023)](#180-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-26-2023)
- [181. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 27, 2023)](#181-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-27-2023)
- [182. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 28, 2023)](#182-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-28-2023)
- [183. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 29, 2023)](#183-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-29-2023)
- [184. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for January 1, 2024)](#184-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-january-1-2024)
- [185. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 4, 2024)](#185-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-july-4-2024)
- [186. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 5, 2024)](#186-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-july-5-2024)
- [187. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 15, 2021)](#187-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-15-2021)
- [188. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 20, 2021)](#188-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-20-2021)
- [189. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 21, 2021)](#189-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-21-2021)
- [190. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 22, 2021)](#190-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-22-2021)
- [191. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 9, 2021)](#191-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-9-2021)
- [192. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 10, 2021)](#192-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-10-2021)
- [193. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 12, 2021)](#193-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-12-2021)
- [194. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 23, 2021)](#194-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-23-2021)
- [195. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2021)](#195-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-24-2021)
- [196. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2022)](#196-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-24-2022)
- [197. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 25, 2021)](#197-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-25-2021)
- [198. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 8, 2021)](#198-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-8-2021)
- [199. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 9, 2021)](#199-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-9-2021)
- [200. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 11, 2021)](#200-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-11-2021)
- [201. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 3, 2021)](#201-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-3-2021)
- [202. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 4, 2021)](#202-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-4-2021)
- [203. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 8, 2021)](#203-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-8-2021)
- [204. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 15, 2021)](#204-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-15-2021)
- [205. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 17, 2021)](#205-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-17-2021)
- [206. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 19, 2021)](#206-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-19-2021)
- [207. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 8, 2021)](#207-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-8-2021)
- [208. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 13, 2021)](#208-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-13-2021)
- [209. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 14, 2021)](#209-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-14-2021)
- [210. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 15, 2021)](#210-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-15-2021)
- [211. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 20, 2021)](#211-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-20-2021)
- [212. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 25, 2021)](#212-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-25-2021)
- [213. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 26, 2021)](#213-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-26-2021)
- [214. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 23, 2024)](#214-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-23-2024)
- [215. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 24, 2024)](#215-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-24-2024)
- [216. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 25, 2024)](#216-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-25-2024)
- [217. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 26, 2024)](#217-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-26-2024)
- [218. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 27, 2024)](#218-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-27-2024)
- [219. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 30, 2024)](#219-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-30-2024)
- [220. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 31, 2024)](#220-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-31-2024)
- [221. The Ramsey Show (Replay for January 1, 2025)](#221-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-january-1-2025)
- [222. The Ramsey Show (Replay for March 29, 2024)](#222-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-march-29-2024)
- [223. The Ramsey Show (Replay for May 27, 2024)](#223-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-may-27-2024)
- [224. The Ramsey Show (Replay from May 25, 2021)](#224-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-may-25-2021)
- [225. The Ramsey Show (Replay of the 2022 Annual Giving Show)](#225-the-ramsey-show-replay-of-the-2022-annual-giving-show)
- [226. The Ramsey Show Live from Chicago](#226-the-ramsey-show-live-from-chicago)
- [227. The Ramsey Show Live from Orlando](#227-the-ramsey-show-live-from-orlando)
- [228. The Ramsey Show on Tour in Denver | May 15, 2026](#228-the-ramsey-show-on-tour-in-denver-may-15-2026)
- [229. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 28, 2024](#229-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-november-28-2024)
- [230. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 29, 2024](#230-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-november-29-2024)
- [231. There's Always Hope When Facing Financial Hardship | February 13, 2026](#231-theres-always-hope-when-facing-financial-hardship-february-13-2026)
- [232. There's No Financial Progress Without A Plan | August 11, 2025](#232-theres-no-financial-progress-without-a-plan-august-11-2025)
- [233. There Are No Shortcuts To Building Wealth | October 21, 2025](#233-there-are-no-shortcuts-to-building-wealth-october-21-2025)
- [234. There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026](#234-there-is-hope-when-debt-and-life-feel-overwhelming-january-14-2026)
- [235. There’s Hope on the Other Side of Your Worst Case Scenario | November 26, 2025](#235-theres-hope-on-the-other-side-of-your-worst-case-scenario-november-26-2025)
- [236. We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper | February 4, 2026](#236-were-100k-in-debt-and-living-in-a-camper-february-4-2026)
- [237. When Life Gets Hard, Choose Financial Stability | April 16, 2026](#237-when-life-gets-hard-choose-financial-stability-april-16-2026)
- [238. When Life Hits Hard, Stay Focused on What You Can Control | May 13, 2026](#238-when-life-hits-hard-stay-focused-on-what-you-can-control-may-13-2026)
- [239. When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most | April 13, 2026](#239-when-money-feels-confusing-clarity-matters-most-april-13-2026)
- [240. When Money Gets Complicated, Clarity and Wisdom Matter Most | January 30, 2026](#240-when-money-gets-complicated-clarity-and-wisdom-matter-most-january-30-2026)
- [241. When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026](#241-when-unexpected-consequences-force-you-to-grow-up-january-29-2026)
- [242. When You Feel Overwhelmed, Control the Controllables | September 12, 2025](#242-when-you-feel-overwhelmed-control-the-controllables-september-12-2025)
- [243. When the Numbers Feel Crushing, There’s Still Hope | February 26, 2026](#243-when-the-numbers-feel-crushing-theres-still-hope-february-26-2026)
- [244. Wisdom With Money Means Moving Slowly | January 9, 2026](#244-wisdom-with-money-means-moving-slowly-january-9-2026)
- [245. Yesterday’s Choices Don’t Define You - Change Starts Today! | September 23, 2025](#245-yesterdays-choices-dont-define-you---change-starts-today-september-23-2025)
- [246. You'll Never Prosper When You're Tied Down With Payments | October 7, 2025](#246-youll-never-prosper-when-youre-tied-down-with-payments-october-7-2025)
- [247. You Breathe Easier Without Payments Choking You | September 4, 2025](#247-you-breathe-easier-without-payments-choking-you-september-4-2025)
- [248. You Can't Build Wealth While Buried In Payments | August 8, 2025](#248-you-cant-build-wealth-while-buried-in-payments-august-8-2025)
- [249. You Can't Out Earn Bad Financial Behaviors | June 4, 2026](#249-you-cant-out-earn-bad-financial-behaviors-june-4-2026)
- [250. You Can Rebuild No Matter Where You Are | October 27, 2025](#250-you-can-rebuild-no-matter-where-you-are-october-27-2025)
- [251. You Can Stay Broke Or Start Changing | October 10, 2025](#251-you-can-stay-broke-or-start-changing-october-10-2025)
- [252. You Can Still Take Charge Of Your Financial Future | October 17, 2025](#252-you-can-still-take-charge-of-your-financial-future-october-17-2025)
- [253. You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money | October 2, 2025](#253-you-cant-afford-to-be-careless-with-money-october-2-2025)
- [254. You Can’t Build Wealth Until You Build Stability | November 7, 2025](#254-you-cant-build-wealth-until-you-build-stability-november-7-2025)
- [255. You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026](#255-you-cant-build-wealth-while-carrying-other-peoples-problems-january-1-2026)
- [256. You Can’t Control the Past, But You CAN Control the Path Forward | November 18, 2025](#256-you-cant-control-the-past-but-you-can-control-the-path-forward-november-18-2025)
- [257. You Can’t Drift Into Financial Peace | March 13, 2026](#257-you-cant-drift-into-financial-peace-march-13-2026)
- [258. You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions | December 2, 2025](#258-you-cant-fix-people-by-funding-their-bad-decisions-december-2-2025)
- [259. You Can’t Hack Your Way Out of Debt | September 11, 2025](#259-you-cant-hack-your-way-out-of-debt-september-11-2025)
- [260. You Can’t Heal Your Finances Without Changing Your Habits | March 9, 2026](#260-you-cant-heal-your-finances-without-changing-your-habits-march-9-2026)
- [261. You Can’t Make the Same Money Mistakes and Get Better Outcomes | January 28, 2026](#261-you-cant-make-the-same-money-mistakes-and-get-better-outcomes-january-28-2026)
- [262. You Can’t Outearn Your Stupidity | October 22, 2025](#262-you-cant-outearn-your-stupidity-october-22-2025)
- [263. You Can’t Win With Money Until You Decide What Matters Most | March 24, 2026](#263-you-cant-win-with-money-until-you-decide-what-matters-most-march-24-2026)
- [264. You Can’t Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy | December 29, 2025](#264-you-cant-win-with-money-when-your-relationships-are-messy-december-29-2025)
- [265. You Can’t Win With Money While Your Life Is In Financial Chaos | December 11, 2025](#265-you-cant-win-with-money-while-your-life-is-in-financial-chaos-december-11-2025)
- [266. You Don't Get Ahead By Coincidence | April 17, 2026](#266-you-dont-get-ahead-by-coincidence-april-17-2026)
- [267. You Don’t Build Wealth by Ignoring Basic Financial Principles | December 30, 2025](#267-you-dont-build-wealth-by-ignoring-basic-financial-principles-december-30-2025)
- [268. You Don’t Escape Debt by Waiting—You Escape by Acting | January 27, 2026](#268-you-dont-escape-debt-by-waitingyou-escape-by-acting-january-27-2026)
- [269. You Don’t Get Out of Debt by Accident—Choose Your Hard | January 20, 2026](#269-you-dont-get-out-of-debt-by-accidentchoose-your-hard-january-20-2026)
- [270. You Don’t Have To Live One Emergency Away From Broke | September 5, 2025](#270-you-dont-have-to-live-one-emergency-away-from-broke-september-5-2025)
- [271. You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything | June 5, 2026](#271-you-dont-have-to-retire-broketime-changes-everything-june-5-2026)
- [272. You Don’t Have to Stay Broke | August 25, 2025](#272-you-dont-have-to-stay-broke-august-25-2025)
- [273. You Get To Decide Your Next Financial Step | April 20, 2026](#273-you-get-to-decide-your-next-financial-step-april-20-2026)
- [274. You Have To Clean Up Your Financial Mess Before Building Wealth | October 1, 2025](#274-you-have-to-clean-up-your-financial-mess-before-building-wealth-october-1-2025)
- [275. You Won’t Win With Money by Accident | October 14, 2025](#275-you-wont-win-with-money-by-accident-october-14-2025)
- [276. Your Bank Account Shouldn’t Define You | April 15, 2026](#276-your-bank-account-shouldnt-define-you-april-15-2026)
- [277. Your Debt Will Catch You Eventually—Face It Now | December 12, 2025](#277-your-debt-will-catch-you-eventuallyface-it-now-december-12-2025)
- [278. Your Financial Chaos Ends Today | October 13, 2025](#278-your-financial-chaos-ends-today-october-13-2025)
- [279. Your Financial Comeback Starts Today | October 20, 2025](#279-your-financial-comeback-starts-today-october-20-2025)
- [280. Your Financial Progress Starts Now! | March 25, 2026](#280-your-financial-progress-starts-now-march-25-2026)
- [281. Your Financial Stupidity Has To Stop Today! | April 2, 2026](#281-your-financial-stupidity-has-to-stop-today-april-2-2026)
- [282. Your Money Isn’t the Problem—Your Plan Is | March 4, 2026](#282-your-money-isnt-the-problemyour-plan-is-march-4-2026)
- [283. Your Overspending Will Eventually Catch Up With You | Best-Of for March 26, 2025](#283-your-overspending-will-eventually-catch-up-with-you-best-of-for-march-26-2025)
- [284. Your Payments Are Keeping You From the Life You Want | May 22, 2026](#284-your-payments-are-keeping-you-from-the-life-you-want-may-22-2026)
- [285. You’ll Always Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck Until You Have a Budget | September 2, 2025](#285-youll-always-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-until-you-have-a-budget-september-2-2025)
- [286. You’re Either Building Wealth or Losing It | October 16, 2025](#286-youre-either-building-wealth-or-losing-it-october-16-2025)
- [287. You’re Not Stuck You Just Need a Plan | May 1, 2026](#287-youre-not-stuck-you-just-need-a-plan-may-1-2026)
- [288. You’re Not Stuck—You Just Need a Better Plan | March 23, 2026](#288-youre-not-stuckyou-just-need-a-better-plan-march-23-2026)
- [289. “Write the Check Today and Be Done With This Forever” | November 5, 2025](#289-write-the-check-today-and-be-done-with-this-forever-november-5-2025)

---

## 1. "My Boyfriend Won't Marry Me Until I Pay Off All My Debt" | November 17, 2025


| Metadata | Value |
| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `7X7AJaupYRw` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X7AJaupYRw) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:58:20 |

---

[Music] brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show

alongside Mr. Bomber Jacket himself,

otherwise known as George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be with you. And George said me just moments ago, he said, "Hey, let's have some fun today." And I said, "Done." >> That was a mandate, executive order.

>> Done, if you will. >> We We do love a good executive order around here. >> Straight from the desk of George Camel,

we appreciate your attention on this matter. >> All right, Penny is up in New Orleans, Louisiana. Penny, how can we help?

>> Hi. So, me and my boyfriend have been together for about four years. Um, we have a 7-month old baby together, and I also have a 23-year-old from a previous relationship. Um, a couple years ago, I did a parent plus loan for my son to go off to college in another state. Um, my son and I agreed that he would make the payments on the loan. Um, my boyfriend

believes that I should also be making

payments on the loan to get rid of it as

fast as I possibly can. and he he believes that he does not want to take that into a marriage. And I agree with him, but I

feel like the loan is is is being paid.

>> And I just don't >> Hold on. This man this man procreated with you >> before marriage, but he's like, "Yeah, but go ahead and pay that parent plus loan off. I'm not going near marriage until you get that done." >> Is that Am I hearing that right?

>> Yes, you are. >> Okay. Just want to make sure America heard. We I know cuz I guess the question for you is Penny. Do you think that this is a principled financial stand or that this is a copout because he doesn't want to put a ring on your finger? >> No, I think it's the principal stand.

>> I don't. >> The principle of what? That he cuz he is there any other debt >> he decided to have a baby with you. Isn't that where you were going, George? Or no, >> that's exactly where I went. >> I think this is a uh this is a convenient principle to not marry you. and you've bought it

hookline and sinker and I I you know what I'll be honest. >> You probably didn't expect us to say that and it's probably the last thing you wanted to hear but I think it's the thing you need to hear. I was feeling the same thing George was feeling. >> I'm putting myself in his shoes. Here's my best reasoning for why he's feeling this way. He wants there to be closure from this past relationship and that debt is lingering in the balance that's kind of tying you to your ex. Correct.

No, I wouldn't say that.

>> Yeah, I actually disagree with that one.

>> What's his reasoning? Have you asked him? >> He don't want to get married.

>> So his his reasoning is he doesn't he wants to be completely debtree. That's his reasoning that he gives to me. So he feels like once we become one that debt also becomes his.

>> So he doesn't want it to be his Well, he's right about that. He's right about that. We teach it. Okay. Let me let me ask a couple quick questions.

Uh was there any conversation about marriage uh prior to uh the baby?

>> Um there was some very little.

>> Very little.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And when did he take a stand on this parent plus loan? When did he drop this uh >> principled stance? >> After the baby.

>> Just recently, which is why I'm calling.

>> But he knew about it before then.

Correct. >> Correct. >> What's left on the loan?

>> I smell a >> 30,000. >> 30 >> 30,000. >> And what is the agreement? Is it written that you're not going to be on the hook for this parent plus loan?

I mean, legally you are, but as far as the repayment plan, >> correct? As far as the agreement between my son and I, he will be making the payments, but legally, yes, I'm responsible for the loan. >> But there's nothing in writing. It just was a handshake.

Hey, you said you would. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay, that part scares me because here's the thing.

They didn't trust him to take on this debt, which they'll give a 17-year-old $100,000 at this point. So, that that's worrisome.

>> So, if he can't pay, then I know that that falls on me and I'm willing to pay

the loan, but he's been tainted. And

maybe that's his fear. Maybe that's my boyfriend's fear that, you know, he won't continue to pay and it's going to fall on him.

>> No, your boyfriend's afraid to get married. How long have you guys been together? >> Four years. >> Okay. Yeah. I I you know, I I have nothing else to add. I've never been more clear about something on this show.

It's just lining up that he's using this as an excuse. So now this is a relationship conversation.

>> Okay? >> Because think about what you just said.

Hey guys, here's a situation. What what what what advice do you guys have? What what are your thoughts? What do I do?

You want this man to marry you? Correct.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, um this is a relationship

issue now. You're responsible for this loan. So, I it's not what he's saying

that I disagree with. I just want you to know that I think this is a relationship issue and we got to find out what the real real is because all of a sudden this loan has become super important to him. It's it's you know to George's point he'll have a baby with you but oh I'm going to stop short of actually marrying you. >> Yeah.

I guess my point is the commitment's already happened. He just he can't admit it yet and he's not taking the logical next step >> and so that part is is worrisome from the relationship. >> I'm worried. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Do you have money right now? How much do you have in savings?

>> Um, right now my savings I have 10,000.

>> Okay. Would it make him feel better if you had that amount in cash in case something happened? You could write a check and be done with the parent plus loan. >> Yes. >> How quickly could you save up enough to have that amount?

>> Um,

I mean a couple months. In a couple months, you can you can come up with 20 grand. >> Oh, no. Not I'm sorry. I thought you said 10. >> No, you have 10. I was like, this call got even more interesting. >> I'm saying if you had that money earmarked and you said, "Hey, if something goes wrong, I'll be able to cover it." >> Wow. >> And have you guys combined finances?

>> While No, we have not combined finances.

>> So, how do you guys currently split all the bills? Is it a 50/50?

>> No, I pay my own bills currently and he pays it own. >> Who pays for the baby?

We both. >> Okay. So, there is a split bill here and then you guys are living together.

>> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. >> So, how does rent work? >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There was a little pause that needs to be investigated. >> Well, so we both have mortgages.

>> You guys have two separate homes.

>> Correct. Because we both had homes prior to our relationship.

>> But you're living in one house and the other one's empty. >> No. No. They live together some. And that's why the pause.

Yeah, because we live together this phone. >> So, who I'm just confused, >> folks. I'm rarely this right. I just want to point this out. I sniffed this out really early on here.

>> If my Okay, I have about a I have a two-month-old. If I said, "Hey, babe. I got another house. I'm going to crash there for a few nights. Good luck with the baby." We would be divorced. Do you

understand? How is this man not there full time in this child's life?

So, we're trying to work on that currently. So, we're trying to find a daycare that's actually closer to where he lives so we can stay out that way.

>> Why don't you sell the house and live together and be married and live like a couple >> cuz that's another question.

>> This is why issue.

>> That's what I've been saying. George, welcome to the party. >> I just got I just arrived. >> You just got where I was.

>> I brought some fruit cake.

>> Thank you. Uh Penny. Oh, Penny. Penny,

listen. As your friends,

this man needs to commit and he needs to commit all in. You got a baby together. Go to the courthouse, get married, pay the loan off. >> If it wasn't the debt, it'd be another thing. He'd be like, "Well, I don't like that you have your own house. Until you sell that, I'm not going to get married." There's always going to be another reason. >> He doesn't want to live with you.

He doesn't want to marry you. This is the problem.

All [Music]

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[Music] All

right, let's go to Tanya in Louisville, Kentucky. Tanya, what is going on?

>> Hello. Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous.

>> Well, you should not be. I mean, after all, you're just talking to me and George. >> There's nothing on the line. There's no game show, no prizes. >> That's right. We're here to help.

>> Well, thank you for taking my call. So um my question is kind of multiaceted

but the reason for my call today

primarily is um how do I get out of debt

with a disability and only being or and

earning very low income. I I was awarded

partial disability um and I do receive payment for myself and my child. I'm a single mother.

>> How much do you get? Um um for 2025

um it was including child support the

payment and if I'm earning my max income

was $3,57.

>> What do you mean by if I'm earning my So I'm a little confused >> because you'll lose your disability if you make too much.

>> If I make too much they take away my disability. So, I always try to work within the parameters that they gave me, but I live in a very small rural area.

>> So, what are you doing for work? >> I'm I'm a substitute teacher.

>> And what's the max that you can earn before they would take away your disability payment?

>> Um, you have nine times to go above what

that is. >> I'm not asking how many times. I'm just asking I'm I'm just unfamiliar with this and we want to coach you through it.

What is the amount of money that then triggers that they say you no longer need? Because that's what this is about.

They go, "Okay, if you make x amount of dollars, then you don't need the disability help." >> So, what's the number?

>> So, for um 2025,

it was um $1,160

>> a month.

>> Yes. >> That's the max you can make.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Let me ask you a question.

Yes.

>> How how much money can you actually make? In other words, >> take disability out of the picture. >> Take disability out of the picture. If you can work, how what what kind of a job do you think you could get? And what kind of job how what kind of money could you make? Have you figured that out?

>> No. >> Or what were you doing before? What were you doing before? What's your work history?

>> Well, there has been a lot. Mo the majority of it has been in early education and childhood development. I never did graduate college, so I don't have certifications to be in the

classroom, but I'm certified to do um

assistant teaching.

>> So you could So you could make somewhere between 30 to $40,000, I'm guessing.

>> Um no, I don't think it's that much.

It really would depend on the school, but where I am right now.

>> Okay. Because you're out in the middle of nowhere. And why are you living out in the middle of nowhere? This is all relevant. >> Okay. >> Why are you Why are you way out in the middle of, you know, Po Dunk?

>> Okay. So, I I moved from a bigger city

with my um partner, my boyfriend, um at the time,

and that was almost 10 years ago. We moved.

>> And is he in Is he still in the picture?

>> Yes, he is. But um I'm It's not a a very

healthy relationship. And he continues to tell me he's not going to marry me

because um I'm in debt right now.

>> Oh wow. This is two of these in a row.

>> Okay. How much are you in? >> These guys are bad liars.

>> How much debt do you have? >> Well, when we moved out here, I had zero. Um, and I put the money down on the house that we bought together. Um, right now I since I lost my job in 2023,

I started living on credit card.

>> How much debt do you have?

>> $40,000. >> That's all credit card debt. That's it.

>> All credit card.

>> Okay. And you and you have a mortgage.

>> No, he bought another house without me and forced me to sell the house we bought together jointly. >> What happened? Was there any profits there? Did you lose money? Cuz you said you had a down payment. >> So I I did. So we got uh we sold the

house for a profit and then um we put

the they the bank was supposed to give us two separate checks, but they screwed up, wrote us one check, and we couldn't close on the house if we said no, you have to redo the checks. So we I said, "Okay, that's fine. We're here now." We put it in a joint account in a money market fidelity account and then he invested it without my knowledge or permission and lost about $50,000 of my

money. >> Okay. Well, I think let's just a real quick bumper sticker and George will keep coaching you and I've got some thoughts on how to make more money, but you need to break up with this guy.

This is done. This guy's completely not

long-term material. You know it. I know it. George knows it. Everybody knows it. Everybody in the lobby knows it. They're all >> I'm living in his house right now because I >> not a problem. But that's not that's a that's not a problem. You can solve that. You go, I'm done with him.

How did you live before? >> Okay. So, I found I found a house to rent in the county, but it's $1,100 a

month. And right now, I'm only bringing

in not even close to what the max I'm

allowed. >> Okay. But my >> You said you're making 3,000, right? You got 3,000 coming in? >> No, I'm not. That's the max that I could make if I was subbing all the time.

>> Okay. And what's the nature of the disability?

>> Yeah, multiple sclerosis.

>> Okay. But you're able to do substitute teaching for a certain amount of hours without it affecting that or what?

>> Yes, substitute teaching has been okay for me. I before this I was working

working in a factory and it I my body

tanked. I got it.

>> Was having flares all the time.

>> Well, first of all, I don't want to minimize this at all, but there there is a reality in your story where you're in

an awful relationship that is not only not benefiting you as a human being in a relational capacity. It is also not benefiting you financially. This guy's a loser. He's manipulating you.

All the things. I'm just going to call it out as I see it. But here's the thing. You also have a you have a challenge, a physical challenge that's not going away.

So, you're going to have to push through the best you can. So, here's my point. I have an idea of what your schedule and what your physical activity looks like as a as a substitute teacher. I have an idea.

being an office manager or working in another capacity where you're sitting some, standing some.

And I know it's hard, but we don't have any other option. I don't want you to be at the mercy of the state, and you are at the mercy of the state right now.

You'd be better off going out and making $45, $50,000 a year, getting free of this clown, and getting out getting out of this debt.

>> I don't know that I can get a job that pays that much because I don't have a college degree. >> That's not true.

>> That's not the factor here. You could work in any administrative role without a degree today. That's right. In a school >> and outside of a school and um one of the things you're g have to consider is moving out of red dirt, Kentucky,

wherever you are. >> Okay. So, how do I how do I do that and still pay my credit card because >> well, the truth is you may not be able to pay the credit card. >> They're worried about the credit card.

>> Cover your four walls first. That's food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance. And outside of that, if you can't pay the credit card after that's all paid, then they can kick rocks and pound sand because they gave you an open line of credit for someone who >> couldn't pay it. >> And you have a disability payment coming in every month.

>> Yes. >> How much is that again? Let's review that. >> Okay. So, um >> just a number. >> Just a number. >> And my daughter >> together um that's like right around uh

almost to 1600.

>> Okay. That's what we That's the four walls of Georgia. That's what you're starting with. You also told me that you can make about $1,000 a month more without being penalized.

So, let's go find a $1,000 job. And you've already got that. But you need to move out of this guy's house. You need to find a better economic area where there are job opportunities for you.

You must happen to your life right now or you're going to be a victim of all of this. And you don't have to be. But you got to take some initiative here.

Everything's just >> looking for a job. This was the best thing that came along until I found >> that's because you're in a bad area living with a bad guy, in a bad living

situation. You can change this.

>> I'd be looking for jobs outside of that area. And then once you get that job, we can move. We can rent somewhere and we can get some financial footing that's not tied to him or this disability.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, the allnew Every Dollar is here, George. And uh it's way way way way more than our worldass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features, including you get to uh have a 10minute

call with one of our coaches. If you just can't get the 15 minutes of initial help, which finds thousands of dollars

in margin for people who just walk through that first 15 minutes of questions, that onboarding alone, >> it's unbelievable. It's like a digital version of Calling into the show. I watched it happen before my eyes the other day. Great stuff.

You can start every dollar for free today by going to the App Store or Google Play. Get it and check it out. It's free. I don't know why you wouldn't try it.

And it is like having one of us, as George likes to say, in your pocket. Now you're a small guy. You might be able to fit in somebody's pocket. >> That's hurtful.

>> I >> I thought it was because of my skinny jeans. It's just hard to fit anything in there. >> Well, the skinny jeans make you more spelt.

I can fit. >> That's fine. Your pocket be pretty crowded. >> Good luck. Riley is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Riley, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are y'all today? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Hey, so I'm 18. I run escape company. I'

I've got no debt. >> Hold on, hold on, hold on. We lost you. We lost. You said I'm 18 and I lost it.

Something company.

>> I run a landscape company.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, we're growing pretty rapidly.

We did about 50 this past month in revenue and we're we're increasing that.

And I need some more equipment.

>> Did you say Did you say 50,000? I'm sorry. You dropped again.

>> Yes, sir. 50,000.

>> One month.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And you need new equipment.

So, we're going to be needing some new equipment and I've been looking at a couple different options. I can't go and pay cash for a dump trailer or a truck just yet. Um, I've got one truck right now, but for a dump trailer, would it be

best to continue renting one when I need it? >> It's about 150 a day, 500 a week, or

find a rent to own option because there's rent to own options that I could do. No, >> no, don't rent to own. Just rent until you have the cash to buy any equipment.

If I was in your business, George may have a different opinion. He'll jump in here in a second, but for me, if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't I wouldn't be in any kind of crazy rush to buy cash.

Even though we're going to say buy cash, I wouldn't be in any kind of hurry to buy equipment until it just made so much sense. Let me explain what that means.

I'm going to I'm going to rent the equipment. It's somebody else's equipment. That means they got to pay to fix it. They got their own insurance.

You're renting. If it doesn't work, guess what? They bring you out another one. You're not paying to have it fixed.

Um, and you're building that into your job. That's the C. So, if it cost 150

bucks a day for a thing, I'm going to and I've got three clients in the nearby area or whatever, I'm going to take that and I'm going to put that into the cost of paying me to do my job. So, that is an expense that you build in as much as possible and still be competitive.

That's how you do that. And and so that you have no debt. Number one, no pressure. Number two, really not much of a hassle and and you're covering that

cost, okay, which is awesome. You your

your greatest expense item outside of uh

payroll, George, is going to be his equipment. And so, if you can get your equipment covered in covered all the way or in a great amount, uh man, is that smart. And now you're stacking cash, stacking cash, stacking cash. And I know it feels awesome. You're a young guy, 18. Congratulations on a $50,000 revenue month. That's freaking unbelievable, man. What a stud you are. Uh much love.

Uh but man, it's going to be a temptation to go, I want to buy something, George. I want to I want a machine that's mine. And even if you pay cash, I still think uh that cash is

better off sitting and growing and stacking and stacking and stacking until it is just not even in the same ballpark

of risk to go buy something.

30 grand of that was cost of doing work, uh, labor and whatnot.

>> Okay. >> And then I' I'll have around 18 or so

left after after everything's said and done. >> So, you could pay cash for a used dump trailer today.

>> I could. >> Okay. And so, have you done the math on like the break even point if you keep renting versus buying a used one in cash today? Because my guess is you you'd break even pretty quickly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If I if I buy a new dump trailer versus buying a used one, I

break even point half the time. Uh,

>> and I would buy a used one. What's the point of buying a new dump trailer? New and dump in the same sentence is ridiculous already. >> I It makes me itch thinking about it. In fact, I want the nastiest dump trailer on the planet.

>> Say again. >> I want the nastiest, oldest dump trailer on the planet. All I want it to do is hold stuff. You know, >> it's for work. It's not turning eyes at the at the red light. You know what I mean? >> I I But George, how soon would you buy a dump trailer? I don't want to buy >> How long have you been making this kind of money?

>> Say again. >> How long have you been making this kind of money?

>> Um, it's just been this past month.

>> Okay. >> And we're we're growing steadily.

>> Do you offset that cost now into your jobs? What you're quoting?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay. I have a question. Uh, hang tight, Riley. We're going to act like you're not in the room. George, why would he why would he ever buy a dump trailer when he can take the rental cost of that and pass it off to his clients?

>> That is true. I mean, there's there's a world where you go, I can be more competitive if I owned it outright. I

don't have to keep adding this expense and I can lower my prices. And that's an option, but I'm with Ken right now. I think it's only been a month. I would let this sit and see what your actual needs are six months from now. And by then, you're sitting on a hundred grand of cash if you do this the right way.

Mhm. >> And you'll really be able to expand smart instead of just going, "Well, this was a crazy month. I'm growing. I got to go get all this equipment." And then you find out, "I didn't need all this equipment." Because every every time you add more equipment to your life, you're also adding some repair and maintenance cost as well. Insurance cost. There's a lot of other things to factor in here.

And be clear, I'm not anti- buying the dump thing. I'm just I'm just asking critical questions. Like, I just wanted to make sure that we know that it's the best choice. And if buying the dump thing is the best choice, I say go for it.

I just want to critically think through it and go what's the what's the the balance here? And there's a right time to do it, I'm sure. But the key is just move at the speed of cash, not at the speed of how fast you want the business to grow. >> Yeah.

>> What does it cost per day to rent?

>> About 150. And you're using that is it seven days a week? Four days a week?

>> Uh about two to a week.

>> Two to three days a week.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, it's costing you what? 450 a

week. >> 450 a week. About 1,800 a month.

>> Okay. That's not bad if you're baking it into the cost. And so longterm, if you're just sick of it and you want to own something instead of continually rent and you figure out a way to make it work financially, I think that's the right move. >> All right. I got to ask a biographical question. America needs to hear this.

Um, are you still in high school or have you already graduated?

>> No, I was homeschooled, finished up school early, and I'm still living with my parents. >> How long you been doing this business?

>> Five years. >> Oh, wow. >> 13. >> So, you started at 13. And, uh, what,

give us a range of the clients that are uh, driving this kind of revenue, 50 grand a month. Is there some corporate places where you're doing their landscape or is it all uh personal homes?

>> It's it's all over the place. We've got we're running ads, some of them are referrals, so it's it's a wide range. >> So, you got residential plus uh business properties.

>> Yeah. >> How how big of a team is this?

Uh, we've got two guys full-time, mean myself and one other, and then I've got a couple buddies that come in part-time whenever we have larger jobs that need some paid. >> How How old are your core guys you just mentioned?

>> Uh, one is 21, is 19, and another is 19.

>> What are you paying those guys per hour?

Uh about 20 an hour, 25 depending on,

you know, when I'm on the job versus not. >> All right. Thank you. >> Impressive, >> folks. Parents,

there you have it. >> I just don't know why we're pressuring our kids to go to college when they don't even know why they're going to college. This kid is way to do what he's

doing. >> Yeah. Riley's been doing it since he's 13 and he just started off with a lawn mower. Now he's got other 19 and 20 year olds that he's paying THEM 20 TO $25 AN HOUR. >> That's why. >> And they got no student loan debt. Just going to leave that there for you.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Randy in Los Angeles. Randy, how can we help today?

Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. Very excited to hear your advice and talk to you guys. Um, so, uh,

our house got caught up in the January LA fires and burned to the ground.

>> Oh, no. >> Where where were you? >> Yeah, it was horrible. Uh, so in Aladena, >> Yeah. >> the whole community, 6,500 homes got destroyed. >> Yeah. >> Um, very devastating, but now we're in

kind of an excitement mode because we're rebuilding. So, we're we're moving past that. Okay. >> Um, luckily we had enough insurance. We

have a lot we have a lawsuit with SoCal Edison. That's two or three years down the road, but we're we're about to rebuild for uh 1.6 million. Insurance

will probably cover about 1.1

say we'll probably get about 200k, but you can't count on that. So, I'm wondering if I should draw from my retirement to cover the delta

um or looking at other options because

it's it's probably about a 400k delta to

what we have for mature.

>> Yeah. >> Was there a mortgage?

>> Yeah, there the mortgage is about 631.

We could probably sell the property for about 800k, but we lost 500k in equity

and rebuilding for 1.6. the property value is going to be, you know, really big in four to five years. So, I think it was a financial decision. Yeah, maybe. Right. >> I mean, so is the option to sell and

walk away with 150 grand

and go elsewhere or we rebuild and take on an extra 400

grand in debt or rob our retirement.

>> Yes, basically those are the options.

>> That's a rock and a hard place if I've ever seen one. Uh, how badly are you wanting to rebuild versus just selling for what you can get for it?

>> Well, we're pretty into the Aladina strong rebuild uh mentality. I think my

retirement has enough to to cover that.

Um, just like to get your opinion.

>> How much do you have in retirement?

>> Uh, about 2.7 taxable. >> How old are you?

>> 63. >> Okay. You said it's all taxable.

Yeah, it's in a 401k deferred comp uh an

IRA. Yeah, >> got it. So, you can withdraw without penalty. You'll just owe taxes on the amount you withdraw.

>> Correct. >> So, the question is if you deplete 2.7 down to 2.3 and will you still be able to retire with dignity when you want to? Does that change your retirement plans?

>> Yeah, I probably have to work another year and a half uh to do this.

>> Okay, so there's the trade-off. I'm willing to rebuild and eat the cost of

>> withdrawing that, paying the taxes, losing the future growth of that 400,000 in order to stay where I'm at and rebuild and and not have a mortgage.

>> Correct. >> Am I am I understanding that? >> You'll still have the 631 mortgage?

>> Yeah, I'll still have the 631 mortgage on top of the rebuild. >> Okay. I misunderstood. I'm sorry. Okay.

So, the 400 is I think I made that clear. >> Gotcha. Okay. How much do you have in savings now?

in savings about 300k.

>> Oh, nice. What's the 300k for?

>> So the 300k was part of the personal property payout. So I don't know if I consider that savings, but you know.

>> But I mean it's liquid cash you have access to instead of >> that you could actually use >> taken from your retirement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Why not take like 250? You have an emergency fund or is that part of the 300k?

Yeah, we have about 25k in an emergency fund >> in addition to the 300.

>> Yes. >> So why not use the 300 and only take a 100red from your retirement? >> This is what I'm thinking.

>> That's definitely an option.

>> It would be the only option if I'm going to do this cuz if you if you pop in 300

grand you would have taken or 400 grand into an investment calculator that money is going to double every seven years. So at 70, what you're really giving up is not the 400 plus taxes. What you're really giving up is 800,000

>> because you're unplugging all that growth, too. So that's the part I want you to think about. And for that reason, I would use any liquid cash I have cuz number one, you're not going to unplug the growth. Number two, you're not going to pay taxes on that. >> Mhm.

>> Okay. >> And how much do you guys make?

>> Uh I make 550. My my wife makes 65.

>> Oh, incredible. I mean, you could probably cash flow this thing. How long is it going to take to rebuild?

>> Well, here's the thing. We've got like 300K in AL, which means that they'll pay

our living expenses outside up to 300K.

So, we could probably delay the build,

keep living. >> So, they'll pay for you to rent. So, you have rentree living until the house is done. >> Correct. >> I would do that and stack all of your income. Dude, I would >> This call just kept getting better and better. Randy, >> I wouldn't touch any of the money. I would if you guys are bringing in I don't know how much are you bringing in a month? What's your take-home pay right now? >> Uh well, uh about 30

>> 30 a month is your take-home. I guess California taxes make you still poor somehow. Yeah. >> Uh so could you live off of, you know, five and put the other 25 in savings?

>> We could probably live off of 10. I was gonna say the five, George. Like, what are you talking about? >> Well, if he's living rent free.

>> Yeah, but he still in LA though, man.

>> I'm I'm just saying. All right. >> You guys have no other debt other than the mortgage?

>> Just the mortgage. We paid off uh 170K

in uh in um student loan fees that I

didn't know was acrewing interest because I didn't take them out and I didn't understand how they worked. But you guys show taught me about subsidized, unsubsidized. So, I looked into it. I'm like, whoa, we to get an interest, you know, even though we didn't have to pay, we were stacking up interest, so we paid that off.

>> Okay, good. >> With the >> Well, I'm just saying, you know, you put 20K a month in a high yield savings account for 18 months, you have close to the amount you need that delta.

>> Okay. >> And I imagine it'll take about 18 months to rebuild, right?

>> Yeah. Anywhere from uh 12 to 14 months is what we're getting quoted and we're going to start probably in March.

>> Okay. Then this this is my game plan.

I'm going to stack so much cash with my future income and then any gap remaining I'm going to take out that 300 from that personal property payout you got >> and leave your retirement alone >> and then thank us later when you retire with $5 million. >> That's right. So you're not going to hurt your compound interest and you're not going to get taxed.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. There you go. appreciate.

>> Yeah, >> I'm feeling pretty good. >> Sorry for what you've been through. You should. And and and my goodness, uh just so proud of you and I love the idea that you want to be a part of Aladena Strong and there's something about that, the community rising up together and rebuilding. That's pretty special stuff.

So, thanks for sharing a bit of your journey with us. That's um that's that's crazy stuff, George. You know, I I I was out there uh in LA uh

about a month ago. went out for a football game with my oldest son and we we drove near certainly the Malibu area

just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes. Um, and that is not a great

situation for a lot of people. Ry's got probably one of the better situations >> better scenario. >> Yeah, there's some pretty tough stuff going out there. And I bring that up to say you talk a lot about insurance.

Um, you know, and I think it makes a lot of sense right now for you to give just a fundamental, all right, acts of God or

acts of nature, whatever you want to call them, they happen at times, and it can absolutely, you know, >> yeah, >> people just go, well, whatever happens, insurance will cover it. No, no, no. You got to read the fine print to see what your insurance will and will not cover, especially depending on your state.

>> And so, that's something to look into. And so I reshop every year with my independent insurance broker and she tells me, "Hey, this is exactly what it will cover, what it won't cover. Do you want to, you know, upgrade and get this covered as well?" And I go, "Oh, sweet. I didn't know that." And so just doing a little bit of research can save you a lot of heartache.

>> Because if it's not covered, you need to know you might be on the hook if this event happens. >> Yeah.

And so people have been devastated when they lose it and they go, "Cool, where's my check?" And they go, "There's no check." Yeah, >> this isn't covered. It's a great point.

You know, I remember watching that coverage. That was the most surreal thing I've ever seen where you could see hot coals literally flying through the

air and threatening homes. And I remember thinking just because of the nature of the work we do, how many of these people like once you know your home is gone, that's got to be so I don't even know. Don't even know how to understand >> the grief process on that alone. >> Yeah.

Just the shock >> without the financial implication, >> right? But I I remember thinking, I hope they're insured.

some clarity." >> Yeah. Trauma plus confusion.

>> Yeah. Not fun. You got to keep up with what the market rate is to build that house today. That's the part you need to keep up with on your home insurance.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

So glad you're with us. 888255225

is the phone number. Love to hear from you. Emily is up in Dallas, Texas.

Emily, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, my husband and I have been

married for 14 years and um um I have

worked in the beginning. Kids came along. I stayed home.

But this entire time he has always been in control of like finances.

Um and I don't even know the basic

skills. I never knew the password or how much money was going in and out and all that. And I've asked a few times and I was not given any access or clear

answer. So >> what's his answer been when you share this very calmly and say, "Hey, I've never really been involved. I'd love to learn. I'd love to be a part of this." What does he say?

>> Uh just like never showing me how to do

it, you know? >> Is it defensive? Is it combative? Does he just shut it down? Does he go, "You shouldn't need to worry about that?"

>> He's just like, you know, just like a very vague answer. Like he would just not like show me, okay, this is the password. This is how you do it. You know, this is what so just like

never showing it. >> And how does that make you feel?

>> Um, not equal.

>> Have you told him this?

>> Huh? Have you told him that?

>> Yeah. >> And how does he how does he respond to that? >> His response is like, "Oh, I have always

showed you you don't want to learn."

>> But you're telling him you do. And so, you know what? Back in the past, I haven't wanted to learn. And that's changed now. I want to be more involved.

Can you show me?

>> It's different than saying, "Give me the passwords." Now, >> I think that's a different conversation.

And I think that is part of it. My wife has access to all of our accounts, but usually she doesn't even bother with the password. She just goes, "Hey, can you tell me what we have in savings?" And I show her and she goes, "Oh, okay." And that's it. And so there's total transparency.

And usually there's one person who's nerdier and knows all the passwords and that's me in my house. But if you're saying he's controlling, he's not wanting to show you things, that is a much deeper issue. There's either one one of two things, maybe both. He's super controlling or he's hiding something.

>> Yeah. Um, I think I don't think he's hiding anything. I think he just want to be in control because he thinks I he doesn't have the confidence in me. He doesn't think that I can do it right or Well, >> but you're not even doing anything right now.

Can I have access to You're not like making investment moves and moving money around. >> Right. Right. Right. And so I got a

full-time job. I'm a teacher now. And I

told him that hey you know I will give

you whatever money you need but I just want to keep this account separate only in my name so I can learn how to manage money since I have not learned that in past 14 years. I you know whatever we

need you know I'll just participate but

I just want a accountability I want a

transparency and he's just got really angry and told me that he's removing us from removing me from the our finances

and keeping our financ

you don't get married and then decide I don't want you be to be a part of this section of my life >> which affects you directly by the way and If something happened to him today, you'd be in alert. You have no clue how to access anything. You don't know what's where. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. And have you shared that fear on top of you the case? That has always been the case. Like I don't know a lot

of things because I don't know. So

>> why why do you think why do you think he got angry over all this? It's like he >> it's like you know it's not your money.

It's not our It's not It's our money and

it's you know um and I'm like okay yes

it's our money. Um but you know it's

just like I want to make sure that if something happens like for God forbids

if something happens to you I have the

ability and the skill to manage you know

the money and Yeah. And it sounds like

it's falling on deaf ears though. Like you say it and all that makes a lot of sense to just about anybody and he's now gotten angry about it. Now he's shutting you out. >> And he's like I need to make some changes. I am removing you from our joint banking account. And >> so this conversation went from hey can I have access? And he went you know what I'm removing your access.

>> This is like sit down and be quiet. You have you have pushed >> I wanted to just get an opinion like I

don't >> an opinion on what what specifically can we opine on >> opinion on like who like >> I I think it's a very extreme >> it's very extreme yeah he's out of you guys need marriage counsel >> make sure that my judgment is right and I just wanted to get an opinion of the outsider who doesn't know him and me >> yeah you're right he's wrong something is really going on and and and uh I'm

digging here. Uh is this a HIMYM problem

or is there some cultural stuff going on here?

>> This is uh this is a HIMYM problem.

Okay, >> this is a HIMYM problem. Yeah.

>> And I I >> What I mean by that is did he come from a culture? Did he get did he grow up in an environment? And I'm not talking about um I'm not talking about nationality. I'm talking like did he grow up in a home where this is the way his dad was and the dad before that and like it's just cuz I guess my point is it feels like there's more to this than he's just controlling.

Now I could be wrong but that's what I mean is that's all he's ever known.

>> Okay. >> And so yeah and I don't see the same pattern in their mind. Okay. The reason I asked that is cuz that tells me something. >> That tells me this is he's got control issue problems. >> Yeah. >> It's not it's not cultural. In other words, his environment growing up. He's now doing this.

>> How do you spend money? I'm curious.

>> Does he is he upset when you spend money? Is there you guys? I'm guessing there's no budget to be spoken of, but if you went and spent $100 anywhere you wanted to, >> I give him I give him I give him I tell

him everything. $10. I spend, I tell him everything. He will, however, go ahead and, you know, buy an expensive thing without even asking me. He He did that a

$1,000 purchase. Didn't even ask me.

>> What What did he buy?

>> Uh, he bought like, you know, like a

outdoor something. >> How would you know if he made a $10,000 purchase? >> Yeah. I wouldn't know. >> How would you know if he went into $50,000 worth of debt?

>> Yeah. Do you guys have debt that you know of?

>> I mean, we have a little bit of credit card debt, like a little bit of, you know, I don't I He's not that reckless,

but um but it's just like I I feel like,

you know, he just want to have control in certain areas and he just doesn't want me to. >> This isn't just money. >> Any kind of independence?

>> Not at all. He wants He wants you to be seen sometimes and definitely not heard.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. He wants to give me just a little bit of, you know, freedom to say that, oh, I'm a good husband, you know. >> Well, I I got uh I got bad news for you.

This is a this needs deep counseling and

a real professional, but if he acted the way he did over you just saying, "Hey, I'd like to be involved in our accounts." I don't know how he's going to act to the old marriage therapy request. I hate to say it, but you're going to have to draw some lines.

>> And right now, you might need to go solo. Uh yeah, I think that's where we are headed. Actually, we are headed to the counseling and because I'm being told that I have issues, not >> that's called gaslighting.

>> Oh, bless.

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[Music]

All right, Nick is joining us in uh George Camel's Old Neck of the Woods, Boston, Massachusetts. I feel like you should welcome into the air Boston style. >> Hey, Nick. What's up, my guy?

>> Howdy. How are you guys doing?

>> Funniest thing is almost nobody in Boston has the accent, right?

>> Very disappointing. Yeah.

>> How can we help, Nick? >> No, we we hate it. So, my mom recently

passed. >> Oh, how recently?

>> Thank you. Um about two months ago.

>> Wow, >> dude. O. >> Yes. And she worked for the state and I

inherited $340,000.

Um and at that time, everything is very

disorganized. She doesn't have she didn't have a will. So I ended up becoming the volunteer administrator because she doesn't have a lot of assets.

So the only thing that's getting distributed is life insurance and now we found out there's a pension as well. And

when I came to the $340,000 I was being pressured to divide it up between my two younger sisters. So my mom had me when she was a teenager got the state job,

signed up this uh paperwork for the life insurance back in 2000 and probably forgot about it. and she has the pension

that she's divvied up between my my siblings, uh, my two sisters and myself.

So now I'm being pressured to divvy up this money. And I was on board for that.

>> Who's pressuring you? >> Um, my grandfather and my mother's ex-boyfriend. >> Hi, your grandfather.

>> Um, >> which is presumably your mom's dad.

>> Yes. >> And then the ex-boyfriend.

>> Yes. So, my mom originally wanted my youngest sister, the 16-year-old, to go and live with him instead of her father because he's not that great of a man. He ended up abusing me and her um when we

were younger. >> Oh, man. >> So, and he financially abused me. So, that was the other thing is she doesn't want him having access to my sister's money.

>> Okay. I I interrupted you. Sorry. So, you were saying I'm feeling pressure, but >> Well, I'm feeling pressure, but I I did want to give them money.

Um, and then I we were taking care of my mom's dog, and the dog attacked me and my 2-year-old son. We had to go to the hospital. It was a really traumatic event. Like, honestly, worst experience of my life.

I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

wasn't met with any humility or even care for my son. They were making accusations that I instigated the dog attack um after it was proven that I

didn't make it up. The sisters said first >> the sisters were >> Yes, the sisters. >> And and I'm sorry. Did you say a moment ago I didn't want to give them money or

I did want to?

>> I did. >> You did want to? >> I Okay. >> Yes. >> And then the dog the dog incident happens. They treat you like crap.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then it just like is a mirroring of my entire childhood where I'm treated like crap by everyone. And I just I don't want to give someone hundred plus thousand dollars to treat me like crap the rest of my life.

Especially when like literally weeks ago I was trying to figure out how I'm put going to put food on the table. Like I run a small business. Um and it's it's

really tough this year. You know, I run a service-based industry. It's a luxury service to be honest with you, washing windows. So not many people have that money in their pocket this year. So,

kind of struggling and then we we come into this money and I'm gonna divvy it up and then I get attacked and they're they're treating me very poorly, not not even caring about my 2-year-old son. And

then once they find out that there's money involved, one of my sisters has changed her tune and she's now nice. And my mom always said that she was two-faced. And my 16-year-old sister that I was really trying to like set

trust up for has gone like no contact with me. and everyone says that she hates me.

>> Well, that that decision got real easy.

>> So, let's walk through the options here.

Number one, you don't give them any money and they continue to not like you,

>> right? >> Mhm. >> Option number two, you give them the money and then you end whatever is left

of these relationships. Correct?

>> Yeah. >> Cuz nothing's going to salvage the relationship. There's no world where we're all happy now and they're good people. And so you just option one, it's going to weigh on you probably to not give them any money and it might make your life more difficult as they continue to make your life a living hell. Or you give them the money and say, "Listen, this is all you're getting. We're done here. Don't don't

contact me if that's what you want. If you want to go no contact because they're they no longer are serving you in any capacity. This is no longer even family. This is a business transaction to them.

Yeah. >> So, you give them each what? 113 grand

>> and call it a day.

>> Yeah, that's what they're looking for.

>> I mean, >> what would you do, George? Let's answer this. >> I might do it for the peace of mind >> cuz it's going to weigh on your conscience. And again, in reality, they're never going to stop and they're going to just try to trash you, your reputation, your life, come after you.

I don't know what these people are capable of. Truthfully, you know them better than I do. But for me, I'm going, you know what? This is worth it.

And because there was no will, we don't know what mom would have done.

Right.

>> Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is I tried to I I had like a chat GPT write up a mock will and just try to really specify what her wishes were around my 16-year-old sister. And that was met with extreme hostility. Um, and they were trying to

make me out to be the bad guy in the hospital. And I was like, guys, like, I'm going to have to handle this stuff u with family court and probate and all that. So, I'm just trying to figure out what mom's wishes are. and they didn't want to hear it. >> Well, AI is never going to figure out what your mom's wishes were. >> Bad decision there. >> Well, no, no, no, no. I I meant uh write up a will for me to fill in. So, like

the will was already written up. We could have the notary come up from the hospital. And >> this is when she was still alive. You're saying >> this was when she was still alive. Like we had probably >> um so she was still coherent and things like that. And I asked the nurse if she was to have a will wrote up and she

wanted to sign it, would it be legal?

And they said, "Yeah, as long as his notary was there." And when I brought that up to the other family members, and it wasn't to go through all the assets, it was really to focus on my 16-year-old sister, what her wishes were around her.

And >> how old are the siblings now?

>> 16 and 21. >> Okay. because I wouldn't be giving a 16-year-old $113,000 or >> I'm not giving either one of them. Uh >> so I might do this later on when they're adults and say, "Hey, here's and have it in a written contract of here's how much you'll get and when?" >> Well, now the other thing is do I put this in a mutual fund and set up a trust for them with conditions? Um you know,

because like like I I don't want to give a 21-year-old $100,000 and I don't have a steward assigned. I'm going to tell you something, Nick.

Here's the deal. Ge I'll give George a final word on it. I He's already given his opinion. George is way nicer than me. >> Uh he's about to drop the hammer.

>> Probably because he's slightly more neurotic than me. He doesn't want to have to deal with it. >> Um I I think the trust idea would

normally make sense. It doesn't make sense in this case, George and Nick, in my opinion, because the minute you say to them, to the 16 and 21 year old, one's two-faced, the other one has cut you out of their life, and you're going to say to them, you'll get this your 100,000 your share, uh, at this age, and

if you meet these moral conditions, they're going to freaking lose their mind, and they're never going to get it anyway. Um, and I think your gut is the

one you go with here. And I think you were thinking at first I'll give him something and now I don't think that makes any sense. And I'm going to go extreme. I think it's extreme, but I think in this case it calls for that. I cut them both out. There's no way you're going to be able to ever figure out what mom wanted. She didn't take care of it.

She made it your problem. You stepped up like a good son. You're a good man.

You're going to make the best use of that money. Uh I just I'd be okay,

George. I'd sleep very well at night not giving him a nickel. And you're sure, Nick, there's no legal obligation here to give them anything because there was no will? >> No. >> The courts decided it should all go to you? >> That 340,000 is all uh life insurance

money from her work. >> And you were the sole beneficiary?

>> Beneficiary. >> And why was that? Why did she do that?

Because of your age?

>> Uh when she I was her only child when she first got the job. >> Okay. So, she just kind of never got around to changing it. Might be the real reason.

>> Yes. versus if she was able to today, would she add one beneficiaries?

>> We don't know. We can't play that game. >> That's the question mark. So, I don't know, man. This is a real tough personal decision. You got two options. I don't think either one is wrong. I wouldn't fault you for either one, >> but I don't know. Peace of mind is worth something. So, I would just think about that. You know these people better than I do.

>> You got it. Thank you guys for your time. >> Yeah. [Music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Alexis in Connecticut. My husband and I exceed the income limits when it comes to retirement account contributions. We've heard about the backdoor Roth IRA option, but it seems a bit complicated to manage every year. Are there simpler alternatives or other strategies we could consider?

Uh I mean, I don't think it's that

complicated to manage every year. And if you want help with it, you could use a financial adviser who could help execute a lot of the pieces for you. Uh, are there other simpler alter? I I don't think there's anything much simpler when it comes to tax advantage retirement options. Now, it depends on what your retirement options are currently. If you got a 401k, you've maxed out, that's a great place to go, especially the Roth option. You got the backdoor Roth IRA option. There's a mega backdoor 401k

option that you might have access to with your company. You can check with your HR department, but that one is even a little more complicated. So the backdoor Roth IRA is simply this. You contribute with after tax dollars to a traditional IRA and then you convert that to Roth. So it's two steps and I

don't think it's as complicated as you're making it out to be. Uh you said you've heard about it but you haven't actually done it. So I would do it first before you decide it's much too complicated. Uh there's lots of videos on this online and again I would you can

reach out to a smart smartvester pro on our website if you want help with it if it feels too complicated. That's what they're there for to help you understand the stuff and to not make it so overwhelming. But good problem to have.

>> Yeah. Very good problem to have. And you talking about super megas and back doors. >> It feels like a child name. >> I don't know man. >> What's better? What's better mega or super mega? It feels like we're naming charan toilet paper. It's like, how about we just how about we just simplify the whole process, Congress, but that's too much to ask. That's a lot. Carol is up in Knoxville, Tennessee. Carol, how can we help?

>> Hello, guys. Um, so I have a situation

of uh I own a home um in Iowa and

uh my in-laws have been renting it from me for 12 years.

Um, now my landlord is retiring and

uh has offered us the house that we've been renting the same house for 12 years. Um, but I can't seem to get my

in-laws out of my house. So, I want to

sell it, but they're not medically or physically able

to move on their own right now. So, I don't really know what to do. Should I keep renting it to him or should I sell it?

>> Well, I feel like the way you set that question up, there's not there's not that secondary option you gave us.

Should I sell it when you can't even get them out of it? And it doesn't sound like your husband's much help >> and then you said then you said they can't get out of it.

>> He's told them that they, you know, we want to sell it by this time, by this time, by this time. The last two years.

>> Where would they be if they weren't renting from you guys for the last 12 years?

Um they were renting before that another

house. >> Okay. >> We got an opportunity to come down here and we kind of wanted to keep the house as a backup plan in case this didn't work out >> and yep, here we are 12 years later.

>> Well, so the great news is is that your husband's on board with selling the house. I thought maybe that was going to be an issue, but the bad news is is he won't actually be a man, >> right? >> And tell his parents that it's time for them to move on. Now, the the issue of

they can't physically leave. Is that true?

>> Yeah. Um, my mother-in-law has gotten really bad where she can't even walk now. My father-in-law has had a heart attack. It's 11 acres and he just he

can't do it all himself.

>> Right. But I guess what I'm trying to understand is is we want them out, but they actually can't leave.

>> Right. >> Well, is that true? I mean, you guys could go help them move. Like can we put them in in like a wheelchair into a van and put take them to a different house they rent and you guys do the actual moving process?

>> Well, I have even offered to like buy a

trailer for them to move into until they found something else.

>> Well, what are you charging them for rent right now?

>> Honestly, it's been ridiculously cheap.

They've only been paying my mortgage, which is now paid off as of 5 days ago.

>> Okay. You guys are being taken advantage of. the the more detail we get.

>> Do they have enough money to rent elsewhere? That's the question.

>> Um, I don't really think so. I mean,

>> 500.

Um, I honestly don't know, but it's probably roughly 2,000 a month.

>> Okay. And they're not going to find rent for $500, I assume, anywhere in the area. >> No. No. So, are you guys you're going to have to subsidize their rent elsewhere if that's if that's what you guys choose to do? >> Cuz otherwise, they're on the street. What are the options here?

>> Right. I don't want them on the street. >> Put them in a home. >> Sounds to me like you're holding on to this house and they're going to live in it >> until they aren't alive.

>> My husband says the same thing. My dad and I built this house and my dad passed away in 2007 and I just can't go back there no more. I'm done.

>> How old are they? No, I get that part. I guess what I'm saying is Yeah. Go ahead.

>> They're like 72 and 73. >> Okay. And there's a chance they could live another 20 plus years, right?

>> Probably not. >> I was going to say that's generous.

>> They're they're physically >> but physically in bad shape.

>> People can live into their 90s even if they're, you know, they physically can't get around. >> So, I'm wondering is there a condition? Is there a cancer or something that says, "Hey, this is this might be ending in the next 5 years," >> right? >> Well, I guess I guess my question is, >> is their health as their health gets worse, >> they're not going to be able to stay in that house anyway, and they'd have to go to an option that's not even on the table right now, but all of a sudden becomes the option.

>> Yes. Well, I guess my point is is that

based on what George and I have heard, even though I hate this for you and I think it's manipulative, it sounds to me like until that becomes the situation and where their health requires them to move out, you're kind of stuck in this situation.

>> Yeah. >> And your husband hasn't taken any initiative, >> right? Well, he's told him several times, you know, we need you guys to find a place to rent. Well, I appreciate that. He's told >> they're not going to get on Google and go search and >> they're not moving. He's told him and they literally aren't even listening to him. >> Correct. >> Right. They've tried and she got scammed.

>> Scammed in a rental situation where they gave them a deposit that was fake or what? >> No, they wanted him to go buy some Apple cards and stuff um to go see the house and for the down payment.

>> Okay. And she was able to go buy these Apple cards? No.

>> Okay. So, how did she get scared?

>> She didn't she didn't she she tried to send um her husband, my father-in-law,

and um she they were going to go meet

her somewhere to give him the cards.

>> Oh, he had to carry her to the truck.

>> Well, here's here's >> if unless your husband I understand you don't want to go back because there's some kind of pain there with you. That's not why we're talking today. But unless he wants to go back to Iowa and handhold them, that means he finds the place, make sure they don't get scammed to buy Apple cards or what in the world is going on in Iowa. But unless he as their

son >> goes back and cleans this mess up, then

you're holding until it takes care of itself. That's what it sounds like to me. So, if you guys really want them out, your husband needs to grow a spine and fly back to Iowa and solve this problem, >> right? >> And if it's not solvable, >> as you're painting this picture to us,

then they're staying there till they can't stay there, >> right? >> And at this point, it's not a financial burden to you. Not much of one other than upkeep, right?

>> Well, yeah. Yeah. It it needs it needs some stuff. >> Well, we'll do that later. Well, yeah.

As long as they're it's inhabitable by them, don't spend a nickel on it. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> It's a tough one. >> Yeah. Because that was my fear, too, cuz like I could take out a personal loan and >> fix it. >> No. Whatever you do, do not go into debt over the situation. Let this house >> Yeah. No, I don't want to do that.

>> Well, >> because I won't get it back. >> Either you let them stay and you can't sell or you try to get them to an assisted living, senior living, or a rental that makes sense for them financially. But either way, this is going to cost you [Music]

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right, the Ramsay Solutions Christmas

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he's Santa Claus, George. And uh

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$20 for all of our assessments, and so much more. Uh, go to ramseyolutions.com/store, ramseyolutions.com/store, or if you're on YouTube or podcast, we have a link to the store in the show notes. Hayden is joining us now from Ashe, excuse me, yes, Asheville, North Carolina. Hayden, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, can you hear me? >> Uh, loud and clear. What's going on?

>> Awesome. Um, so I'm just kind of looking for some information. Um, so I'm actually enlisting into the Air Force in about 3 weeks and then I will go to basic training from there. So kind of what I'm looking for is just um kind of some advice on what should I do while

I'm in the service to try to get better better financially. Um, and then just kind of, you know, grow it while I'm in, you know, if I do choose to get out after my full years or make a career out of it. I've got a few things. Um, like I've already got my IRA set up. I've got money in my bank accounts, you know, pretty good on that. I do have a truck that I just purchased. So, that is a kind of a debt that I took on.

>> I wouldn't say kind of a debt. I would just say it's a debt.

Um, but yeah, that's kind of just what I'm just kind of calling in and asking for advice on what I could do while I'm in. >> Sure. How old are you?

>> I am I will be 25 in February.

>> Cool. And what will you be making?

>> Uh, starting out I will make about 2700

a month. Um, and then I just progress with the rank as as I go through.

>> Okay. Are are you living for free?

>> Um, yeah. I mean, I live I'll live when I'm there, I'll live for free. Um cuz I live in the dormitories and stuff.

>> Sweet. Okay. So, you can make 2,700 work

and uh you've got a truck payment now to deal with. >> Do you need this truck?

>> Well, um yeah, it's kind of >> It was a trick question, Hayden. The answer is you do not need this truck.

How much was this truck?

>> Uh it is it was 53,000. Now tell me, now

tell me on why why on God's green earth does a 25year-old young man who's got a bright future ahead of him need a $53,000 truck.

>> So here's what happened. My car I had a

car I've had a car for about 10 years and the warranty was about to run out and everything. And I will say this, my family has helped me with the payment so far. Um, and you know, but when I get

started and get get established into the military, then I will take on the payments. Um, so it's kind of a it's kind of a little push from my family.

Um, just because the car, the vehicle that I had was the warranty was gone and then the miles was just going to get too high.

>> I'm still looking for a reason why you needed a $53,000 truck that you couldn't afford. >> You could run for Congress. That was such a good deflection, sir, on that direct question. So, one more time, why

does a 25year-old going to the Air Force need a $53,000 >> while he makes $32,000 a year, by the way? O, >> how much is the payment?

>> The payment is $8.25 a month.

>> Oh my word, I can't breathe, Hayden. And

your family's paying all of it?

>> Um, so yeah, so I'm paying the insurance on it. Um, and then they just cuz we just the payments just started coming out the beginning of this month.

>> Yeah. So, you don't even know what it's like to experience it. And you're asking me how to grow your investments.

>> Do you understand how diabolically inverse those two things are? That you're paying interest on a depreciating asset that's almost twice your income while asking me how to build wealth.

Do you find this ironic? Yeah, that was a it was a a concern of mine when the vehicle was was coming up. And >> here's how you build wealth. Hey, I'm going to be honest. You sell the truck while you can and get out from underneath this payment.

>> How much could you sell it for?

>> Um, well, I bought I bought it pretty much brand new. Like, it had one owner and it only had like 6,000 miles on it.

So, I could probably probably make my money back on it. I would attempt to do that. Do you have any money saved?

>> Oh, yeah. I mean, I've got I've got a

thousands of dollars saved.

>> How much exactly?

>> Uh, I've got about 20,000 saved and then I've got some cash, probably 8 to 10.

>> Okay, so here's what I would do. I would sell that truck and then take $10,000

and get yourself a reasonable used car.

Maybe 15 would be the top end limit out the door after taxes is what you're going to spend on this thing making $30,000 because you told me your stated goal is to build wealth, right?

>> Absolutely. >> So, if that's the thing we're aiming at, that we're going to spend as little money as possible on toys and depreciating assets >> and we're going to get out of debt and stay out of debt. Is this your only debt to your name right now? >> Yeah, this is this is my only debt.

No credit card, no loan, no nothing. I'm telling you, if you sell this car, get out of debt, stay out of debt, and then you have all of your income at your disposal to actually build wealth with, we have we can get you a game plan to build some wealth and invest.

>> Yeah, exactly. >> And so I would get out from this truck and see if you can take it back to the dealership that that screws you on the steel. What's the interest rate on this?

Uh, it is

8.24. >> Cool, cool, cool. What if you could make 8% on your money instead of lose it?

Wouldn't that be cool? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's what I'm trying to trade here. I'm not mad at you for wanting to enjoy your life. I'm mad because it's robbing from your ability to build wealth for you and your future family.

So, I would say, "Hey, mom, dad, thanks for enabling this bad decision. I want out of this thing. You're off the hook for the payment." >> That was Yeah. I mean because they, you know, they talked talked about it and they was like, "Well, we can do it, you know, while you're in and then when you get established, you know, you can take it." But my biggest thing is I I don't

have property in my name and I would, you know, we all know how property and the value is and I would love to get started on property as soon as I can.

And of course with the truck payment and stuff that kind of puts me, that puts me >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. All of your goals are in direct opposition to your actual behavior.

You're saying, "I want to own property. I want to build wealth. I want to invest. And yet, we're going backwards.

And so, I want you to undo that decision as quickly as possible so that you can actually have some money. Cuz you save 8.25 a month in a savings account, you'll be able to actually buy something one day. But if you continue down this path of taking on a payment, trading it in, getting another payment, then you're going to be broke for as long as you can remember. So, I'm wishing you the best, man, but this truck needs to go yesterday. >> Yeah. And then walk the baby steps out.

We'll give you Total Money Makeover as our uh congratulations gift. Uh let's also give uh George's uh book, Breaking Free from Broke. >> Yes, please read the car loans chapter.

Read the Carlos chapter as a followup.

That's good homework. Uh but the the point is you're going to have a great chance to live very affordably while you're in the Air Force. And we thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. But take advantage of that. and and so saving and investing while you're there, not going into any debt, >> getting out of all debt now. And u all you got to do is get rid of this truck.

And by the way, you're going to meet opposition on that. Uh cuz what George just laid out for you is very countercultural. Included in your own family. >> They're going to be laughing when you roll up in that new truck. You get the new to you truck that was $10,000, >> right? But I mean, how much do you need any kind of a vehicle when you're on a base? >> That's what I'm wondering. you know, so >> you're just tooling around to the, you know, local Wendy's, I guess.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, catch a ride. Catch a ride with the other guys. Um, >> in their fancy trucks that have $800 payments. That's the way to do it. >> There's the deal. You ride around in somebody else's. Uh, are we still, by the way, in America, are we still on the upper end of $700 on the average amount of car payments or has that gone up? Do you know? >> It's over 700 now.

>> Over 700. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. I thought it was high 700. Well, we are we're actually headed to the amount of student loan debt we're in equal to car debt. That's what's crazy. >> Uh did you hear about uh Trump's 15-year

car note? Is that going anywhere? >> I heard a rumbling about this. I could not find any credible sources that said they were working on a 15-year car.

>> I can't either. It was mentioned. The latest I heard was the seven-year car loan has now kind of been normalized.

15-year car loans I don't believe exists unless you're talking a luxury exotic car, you know, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Uh, it was floating around the internet when the 50-year mortgage was thrown out.

>> Would anything shock me in America today that's going to cause us to be more broke? >> Why not? >> To have our fancy toys. >> Why not? Well, our >> the guy in charge likes the debt.

>> He's not scared of debt cuz he'll just he'll just bankrupt on it. I guess that's his MO.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside and we're happy to have you with us.

888255225 is the phone number. Michelle joins us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Michelle, how can we help?

>> Hi guys, thanks so much for uh helping me out. I appreciate it. Um I guess my question is how do my husband and I get out of $270,000 of student loan debt combined on one income? >> What's his income?

>> Uh we make $92,000 a year gross.

>> Okay. >> And what are your options for increasing income? Are you able to work outside the home right now?

>> Um, so I am author. I've been doing it

for 11 years. What was that? Freelance, right? Um, I've been a published author.

Okay. >> For 11 years and a freelance writer, but

a lot of companies I write for don't pay me. >> They don't pay you?

>> Nope. >> What do you mean? Like you did the work and then the payment never came through.

um more of they're all saying that there's budget cuts and if I want to get my work out there, I the right to help people for free or not get paid.

>> Okay. Yeah. No. Is this a scam? That's this is not how the the world works.

Even in the freelance writing world, >> they set a rate >> and they say, "Hey, we'll pay you 150 bucks to write this thing." And then they pay you to write that thing.

>> It changed a lot with the last recession in 2008. and I write, but the books don't pay very well for advances and royalties.

>> Okay. Are there other writing jobs that you could get? Because you're saying you're able to work full-time. Nothing stopping you from doing that.

>> I can work remote. I have a little munchkin at home, so at night I can write. I'm happy to do it. I I'm always I've always done that. Um, but I've even been looking at teaching work. I'm a I have two master's degrees, so I can be a teacher. Um, but I haven't been able to get hired online like remote asynchronous.

>> Well, okay. I appreciate all that, but there's an old phrase and I'm going to ask you to finish it. Where there's a will, there's a >> way. >> Okay. And I I appreciate that you've tried to get the online professor. I think you should still be trying for that. I think that's a great idea. But I I think with all of the freelance in today's economy, the freelance work

because of your varied skills of writing, there's a lot of different type of writing you can do and none of this nonsense where you're writing for free.

Um, but you may need to get outside of the writing side of things and uh look at what other online uh you know or work from home roles that with your two masters with your writing experience.

There's a lot of transferable skill there. I mean, you should be thinking in the $50 to $75,000 category at a minimum

with those two masters. What are your master's degrees in?

>> Um, English and creative writing, but I have a unique niche that's needed. I actually help kids and teens who are struggling with life issues such as um

if their parent died or if they're living with alcoholic parents or um if they're struggling with bullying. Those are kind of um that I touch in. um

there's not a lot of help for them and if I don't write for free sometimes or write then they can't get the information that's needed to help them.

So I'm kind of in a if you do it for

free at least I'm getting the information out to those kids or but if

I stop writing then the then the information stops. So that's why it's that why I kept doing it if you're wondering why I keep writing for free.

>> Well, we're not judging you but my point is is you can only do so much of that right now. You need to bring in more income to help your husband. And do you agree or disagree with this?

>> Oh, no. I agree. I'm just having trouble

finding that. You know what I mean? I've been applying like crazy.

>> Well, but it's not about applying like crazy. I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, so we don't have to describe the entire book, but you have to get into a very strategic

um system of contacting people. And I'm not talking about applying on LinkedIn or applying online. I'm talking about talking to real people who can make real connections for you because there's a lot you can do, but you need to be targeting something uh in the $50 to

$75,000 range. I would take all those masters, all that skill, all that experience, and I would expand. I would

put it uh you know, if nothing else, put

all of your work experience and expertise into chat GPT just for fun.

Just put it in there and go, "What would you suggest?" You've got to start opening up your eyes to possibilities because you guys need more income. Now, I want to bring George in. Let's assume we get more income. Okay, >> George, systematically walk them through what they do. >> So, you've got how many total debts

>> out of the 27? >> I have uh most of that is my student debt. He he's at like 65,000. The rest is mine.

And then we also have a mortgage and have, you know, credit cards and we're in some collections right now because everything kind of just got a little out of control. So, >> okay. So, you've got the majority of it is student loans and that 270 does not include your mortgage. That's all consumer debt.

>> Um, nope. 27 straight student loans.

>> The 270 is just student loans.

>> Yep. 250 is our mortgage.

>> So, you have 250 on top of the 270.

>> Yep. >> Okay. What are your monthly bills right now? If you add up, you know, the basics, food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, and minimum debt payments.

>> Oh, four walls. If we're just talking four walls, it'd be 5,400, but the debt are put to like 7,500.

>> And you guys are bringing home like $5,000.

>> Uh like 5,400.

>> Okay. Which is why you're going into credit card debt.

>> Yeah. It's just kind of um we're taking

our four walls and then we're trying to pay them and then it just got into a mess. So, we stopped paying the collections and we're trying to concentrate on the four walls like you know we're learning from you guys. Um but it's kind of blowing up in our face at the moment. >> I would agree. I think this the charity work passion project stuff needs to stop because we need to cover our own household right now.

>> Do you agree? >> I'm trying to Yes, I agree. I would be

finding anyone I know that works at a place that is hiring for any role that I am somewhat qualified for. So you think about content writing, copywriting, grant writing, um adjunct professor in

creative writing or English. Have you explored all of those? And do you know anyone who works at a place that has those positions?

>> Yes, I've been applying like crazy. I've been reaching out for networking. Um my I'm connected to all my old editors. um they're connecting me to other editors.

I'm I even reached out international. I have some friends international trying to get me at their universities so I can teach remote online. Anything you can think of like um I'm I'm jumping.

>> Can we look elsewhere for now and just do side hustles that have nothing to do with writing just to bring some income in the door?

>> Um the problem is I don't have any family support. So my husband's on call at work and that means no one would be able to watch my munchkin. That's why I have to do like remote that I'm >> What does he do for work?

>> He is a manager at a facility company.

>> And is there any upward mobility for him to climb up the ladder and make more make six figures?

>> He's been trying. So, we've been he's been applying the interviews, but he hasn't, you know, we're still trying, but he hasn't gotten one yet.

>> We're both trying everything we can think of, and he's been looking at other companies. So, we've both been networking. Um it's just kind of a we're

both kind of stuck at that but we're trying. >> Yeah. The the only variable that can move right now is the income. The debt's not going anywhere. There's nothing to sell off. We can't sell our master's degrees that we paid a4 million dollars for. So what we can do is utilize them to get that better job and make more money. >> Yeah. And this is a full-time job now.

This isn't a well, we're stuck, we're trying, and nothing's happening. No, it's nothing's happening yet, but we're going to continue to move like the mouse in the maze. Always moving towards the cheese. Uh, hang on the line. We got the proximity principle. It's my gift to you. You need to read this or if you want the audio book, we'll get that for you.

[Music]

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>> Well said. No notes.

>> Yeah. Stanley is up in Mobile, Alabama

where George >> hailed from college. Love that. Stanley,

how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going? I uh hopefully got a quick question that you guys can uh answer. Smack a little bit of scent into me. >> We will determine that, Stanley. We will determine that.

>> Absolutely. My question is, should I gift the remainder of my uh daughter's

wedding budget back to her? And I can

give you a little bit of the background.

My oldest daughter from my first marriage just got married. Uh when they

initially got engaged, my wife and I, her stepmom, we set aside $10,000 and

that was kind of, hey, this is going to be your budget. Uh my daughter and her

husband, they decided that they were going to do a destination wedding, come down here, get married. Um and so it

actually ended up being a lot cheaper.

And originally it was going to be about $5,000.

my wife and I thought, "Cool. We can, you know, set aside this $5,000 and that would be a nice little uh, you know, like wedding gift, wedding present for them." Uh, as things went on, a couple

little expenses, you know, with wedding planning typically, as they always do, kind of arose. Um, so my wife and I, we

stepped in and we said, "Hey, don't worry. We got some money for this. We'll cover you guys." My wife did a ton of

planning for this wedding. uh she did the lion share for this and we never quite really felt like she got a thank you. Uh then to also add on top of it,

my daughter, while not a bad person by any means at all, but there's a few little things financially that we don't agree with uh that she does. Um you

know, she finances cars. As soon as she paid off a new car, we were so excited for her and then she turned around and bought bought another one. And so we're kind of sitting there a little uncomfortable with it. But then really the icing on the cake is she bought a

house with her husband and her mother.

So the three of them bought a house together. And

yeah, that's uh something that we definitely don't agree with. And so now we're sitting here, the wedding's all done, and we're like we now got about $3,500 back. And we're just a little bit

hesitant of if we should give this back to her or not. >> Yeah. I mean, okay, George, I don't know what you're experiencing right now, but I'm listening to the setup of this question and I'm and you finished it and I'm going, "This is not your idea to give her the $3,500 back. You just gave us a great case as to why you shouldn't.

Whose idea is this?"

>> Well, no. This was the original idea.

Now, my daughter doesn't know that there's this extra money with the budget. a question. Did you promise them, hey, we have 10,000 to give to you for the wedding? >> Whose idea was this? Answer the question. Was this originally the idea?

If you didn't spend any of it, you'd give her the extra. This was something you and your wife agreed to.

>> No. No, not at all. Uh, again, my daughter doesn't know that this money.

>> I know. But whose idea is this? Was it yours? You said, "I'll call Ken and George today and see what they think about the 3500." Was it your idea?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, you just talked yourself out of it, I thought, in the question.

>> Yeah. sounded like you needed to process it out loud in front of us and a few million people and you came to your own conclusion. >> Probably uh probably correct >> cuz here's the thing. You're not going to have peace about giving them this money.

You're going to resent them and they don't even know you resent them for it. >> Yeah. >> And they don't even know the money exists. You did what you said you were going to do, which is help cover the cost of the wedding.

You did that.

You didn't promise them if there was any money left over, they'd get it. So, just hang on to the money. >> Agreed.

Well, another little layer that I might add in is so I have two more daughters

with my current wife that are um they're

about 10 years younger than my oldest.

So again, wedding planning isn't on the horizon, but we're trying to sit here and we're trying to be like, are we going to be fair and equitable and we

stop? Stop. I can't I can't I can't bear

it. I'm trying to save you from yourself. I This is a separate deal. Th

this this you gave her the wedding that she wanted and there's $3,500 left over.

I don't know where fair and equitable comes in. That's my opinion. Now, America may disagree with me. George may disagree with you.

That's fine. But I think you drive yourself crazy here. So now all of a sudden, so now all of a sudden if you give her the 3500, that makes in your mind the 10,000 whole. And so the other two, well, what if weddings cost a lot more?

I don't even know how you did the wedding for 6,500. Listen to George talk. He tells me all the time about the average cost of weddings.

Are you with me, George? I will >> say it was it was the three families we went in together. And so we put up $5,000. So I mean um yes, you know, total. >> Are you guys in a better financial spot now? You have no debt.

>> Yeah, we're uh baby steps four, five, and six. Um we're great shape. Uh I'm

hoping my soft goal is call you back in about five years for one of those millionaire theme hours. um be able to talk to you guys then. >> So, >> I'd put the 3500 I'd put the 3500 towards the younger two daughters.

>> Okay. >> Uh you know what? I can't believe I'm admitting this, George, but you'll be very proud of me. >> Hit me. >> I have been putting uh a set amount away

above and beyond all the things. Uh

because I have one daughter and she's 16.

And I hear you talking about the cost of weddings and I'm likeay.

>> And I know your daughter. She's going to want a nice wedding. >> She is. And you also know my wife.

>> She's going to want her to have a nice wedding. >> So you know who's been putting money away for over two years.

>> Wow. >> I'm proud of you, man. That's big.

>> So I would I'd put when that's what I would do the 3500 or unless there's debt or anything else. Obviously >> what you can do is use it for your other financial goals and you got time to save. you got 10 years and so it's up to you how you do that. You may want to invest outside of retirement for a goal like this since you have a long time horizon, park it in index funds, you know, for 10 years and just kind of stack money away as it comes in and as you feel comfortable, set a goal for how much you guys want to invest per year and there's no fair, it doesn't have to be exactly what the other daughter got because who knows what weddings will cost 10 years from now.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Well, thanks for the call, Stanley. Uh George, this brings up a good point.

You you and Whitney will be invited to Jos's wedding. >> Oh, I can't wait. >> That's wild to think about. >> You're going to do your part and get a really great gift.

>> 100%. >> No cheap George. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

>> That would be nice for your guests to think about their >> set of items for you. >> Yeah. >> So, that's why I'm investing now. I'm a little I'm >> You're hoping the gifts are nice enough.

>> No, to offset the cost.

>> I don't know. I'm just I think I'm just >> now weddings wed myself some therapy right here. I can't believe it but it's going to happen and it's going to happen before it goes fast. Yeah.

>> And so you know what I decided I was like I'm going to get ahead of this.

>> So So it's a fund and it's guess what?

Ain't nobody going to be asking me for more money. >> Well, whatever's in there is what she gets. Is that >> it's going to be nice. >> Okay. >> My point is is that I'm not planning on that entire fund going to her wedding, but it it'll it'll take care of business. >> Yeah. But you my point is I'm not getting caught with that deal.

>> No, >> I'm not getting caught with oh I gota I got to come up with more money kind of a deal. >> However much money that's the budget and if she wants to save up with her future >> fiance you think is uh let's fast forward let's say 10 years from now.

What do you think is a reasonable amount for a wedding? Cuz you're tight.

>> Well, here's my thing. How many people are invited? You invite 250 people.

That's going to be an expensive wedding. You got 40 people. >> Uh let's >> we can have a super high quality.

>> Let's go 150.

150 you're probably in for 20 grand in this area minimum.

>> Kelly the producer is saying minimum more. What do you think the number is?

Give me a number. >> She's saying 50ast 10 years from now.

>> From 10 years from now. Yeah. At least 50.

>> Keep keep saving, Kenny boy. Keep saving. >> Sorry folks. I'm going to have to step away for a moment and sell some stuff online. Ken's about to sell his kidney.

>> George, is it me or is it getting hard to breathe in here? >> You are wearing a sweater. I'm going to sweat through that. >> Chest is tight. Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

By the way, uh George and I were just talking uh for a brief moment, just a little continuation here for a moment cuz I I I think this tradition ought to be brought back.

I was joking with George and I said, you know, I've only got one daughter. So once she finds the young man that that she wants to marry and he wants to marry her, he's got to come to me and offer, you know, pretty good sizable offering of cattle. Um, you know, I think she's probably worth a thousand cattle, thousand head of cattle, you know, >> endless. >> But maybe I'll do a hundred.

So is it goats? Is it cows? I mean, this is a thing that used to happen, George. You looked it up.

>> And I had to explain to Ken that's an HOA violation in his neighborhood. No, no, I wouldn't never take possession of them. I would just immediately resell them. So, it's old school, but maybe we should bring it back.

When did it end? It never ended. >> There was no single date.

>> They're not bringing it back. >> And neither am I. But it would be fun to kind of look at the young guy and go, "All right, there's what we're talking here." >> It'd make me nervous. I'd go, I'm not sure I want to marry this girl because my father-in-law is insane.

Oh boy, that's fun to me. I don't know why. We're having a good time. >> Well, uh, in the lobby here in Ramsey Solutions, across from our studio, we have a lovely couple, Jose and Maria, if I've got that right. Hi. How are you?

>> Hi. >> Where are you guys from? >> We're from LA. >> All right. Los Angeles, LA.

>> Yes. >> All right. And I guess you're here on the debtree stage to do a debtree screen. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Oh, I love it. Okay. Give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

We paid off $215,000

in four years. >> $215,000 in four years. I love it. And

what was the range of income?

So um initially we um man we started off

pretty low but um over the course of um

the years our income began to increase

and currently we um together we make aboutund and um

>> about 115.

>> So 115. So what would you say you started at? >> I think we started at about 98,000.

>> 98. So Mickey 98 to 115. Okay. Very

good. And what was the debt made up of?

>> Wow. Car loans, refi loans, um, credit

cards, student loans, >> solar panel. Everything we owned, we

financed because >> if we can get a payment on this, we're going to find a way. >> Yes, absolutely. Everything that we own, we financed. And um, it just became a

regular form of living, a regular part of life. And um it became something that

was just out of control. Um it it

>> So what what was that point would you say when you were like this is insane.

Why are we doing this? We got to figure out a way out of this. >> Yes. So we um we were sitting down doing

our taxes and we looked at each other and said, "Wow, we do pretty well um

with our income and yet our money comes

in and it comes right out. It comes in, it comes right out, and our debt's still the same, and we're paying bills after bills after bills, and it seems like we're never going to end.

>> And there were even there were even moments where we were overdrawn, and I'm like, how is this possible? Like, how is it even possible? And then that that was really the turning point.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, George. I'm just curious how you got connected to the Ramsay stuff.

>> Well, through through my wife, really.

Um, you know, she we had known about the

Ramsay show and she would listen. I wouldn't, I'll be honest. But when she brought it up, um, I was like, "No, no, I don't want to do anything." No. You know, uh, we're not going to be able to travel. We're not going to be able to go to the World Cup. We're not going to be able to do all the things that we do.

No. And, you know, >> our Disney passes. >> Our Disney passes. Yeah. And we even got into this big fight. And then finally, um, I was like, "All right, I'll go check it out." and we we went to um

started taking one of the classes and and that's how that's how it really began. >> Actually, we also had a friend um a

friend Carla and Edwin PZ who also came to the show and became Jeffree and we saw their dee scream a few years ago and we became instantly inspired. Um and so

that's when we decided to do the actual plan. And so the four years that it took us to pay off, we were following the

Dave Ramsey's um uh I guess program, but

intensely with FPU that was within the last 6 months that we really did and we were more aggressively and paying everything off. But I think if we had done the plan from the very very beginning, we probably would have paid everything off within maybe about two years, maybe even less. M that's interesting >> because it it the program really does hold you accountable and really does teach you the the principles that are based on on the Bible which was really convicting to both of us. Right?

>> That's really that's really what got me and you know when when it got to the biblical aspect of it I was like okay you know what I'm sold. Let's I'm all in. Let's do this. Okay. >> And >> and I think the hardest part was probably week two or three when um we were challenged to take a step of faith.

And for me it was cashing out the little

bit of savings that we had for our our daughter skiing sa which to us is a huge deal in the Mexican tradition, right?

And we had a little bit of money saved, but then we had this enormous amount of debt, right? And so we thought, why do we have all of this debt yet we have a little bit of cash? FPU says put it into

the debt, right? That makes sense. And and we thought we were betraying our daughter, right? And I remember crying and just like really debating with him like does this have further implications, you know, what is my daughter going to say? And so that was one of the hardest things because we really had to rely on God to for his provision, right? That um his his um his

love and value for her was not based on just a a a a ceremony of um of coming of

age, but it was beyond that. and also our faith and that that he would provide for something like that, right? Because he cares about things like that as well.

And um and now that we are in baby step number five, that we're in baby step number five, um we're actually going to start um cash flowing for her kinsa. In about six months, we'll be done with that. >> Awesome. Good. >> Yes. >> That's fantastic. >> But Alanso also did a huge um sacrifice.

Do you want to tell them? >> Yeah. I had just I had just leased an an Audi and uh I think it was on the third

class where where I I I turned and I

looked at my wife and I said, "You know what? We're returning it." And she was like, "What?" And I was like, "You just got it." I was like, "Nope, we're returning it. It's it's a bad investment. That's what Dave Ramsey says. Um I go, "The Lord has us covered.

I don't know, you know, the outcome of it, but I know we're going to be covered, and this is what we need to do." and May May of this year I returned

it. Uh the lease is actually over uh in

December, >> but we finished paying it. I'm like, "Nope, let's return it." And they tried selling me >> like four more of their new cars and these deals and I was like, "Nope, I don't want it. We're good." And yeah, they it was tough, but we were able to to do it. >> We're back to your old Honda. >> Yeah, back to my old Honda and it's still going. So, >> good. Good for you. So, what would you all tell people the key is to getting out of debt if you could single out one discipline?

>> Whoa. You want to go for first?

>> Um, support each other and and encourage each other. Pray together and um and you know there there there's going to be moments of frustration. I know you know there was times where I'm like I'm done with this. I don't want to do it. But, you know, the outcome is is is great.

Along with that, I would say also find um a community support because I think the class again it made the world of a difference. I knew about the principles of FPU through the show, right? But it wasn't until we were in the class together with Irene and with Ana that we really held each other accountable, learned from each other. We got on the app and all of those tools made such a huge impact. Um, it kept us on uh it

kept us accountable. It kept us on track. The monitoring, the graphs, all of those things made a huge impact. And it does give you those rewards, right?

The chemical rewards. I mean, and and and I know this. I'm a therapist. I'm a >> All right. Listen, speaking of rewards, if we don't let you get to the screen, we're going to run out of time.

>> So, are you guys ready to scream? Yes.

>> All right. That's why we're here. Here we go. We got Jose and Maria from Los

Angeles. They paid off $215,000 in four years, making 98,000 to 115.

Jose and Maria, take it away. Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> WHAT? >> WE ARE DEBT FREE.

>> We are in fact.

>> How about that, George? >> Just in the nick of time.

>> We got it. >> What a story. A lot of sacrifice. You know, Jose liked the finer things in life, but they weren't doing fine emotionally and spiritually, and now they're truly free. So proud of them.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

[Music] scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17:9. Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends. And our quote today from Bernard Meltzer. A true friend is someone that thinks you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked.

Thank you, Bernard. I'll ponder that.

>> Oh, that's funny. George Casey is up in

Long Island, New York. Casey, how can we help? >> Hey guys, thanks for taking the call.

Um, so I have a heating and air conditioning company that is starting to fail and I don't know if I should start reinvesting money into it or kind of call it quits. >> Okay. Well, first we need to try to identify or do we know why it's failing?

>> So about a year ago, I inherited a

property that I started uh focusing more on than the business. Um, and the

the tech that I had working for me, uh, that was like the senior guy, if you will, has been calling in sick too much.

We're losing a lot of accounts. Um, so

I've seen it happening. It It's not like a shock to me. I didn't wake up this morning and be like, "Oh, no, the business is failing." But I I've I've

you know when I initially started in working on this other property, I I knew this was going to start happening. Um as

far as how fast it's happened is a little more concerning to me since he's

been, you know, he's kind of on his way out as well. So now um >> like you're firing him.

>> I mean I I don't think I'm firing him. I think he's kind of quitting himself.

He's been calling in sick, you know, out of two out of every five days, you know.

>> Okay. And you're not working really in this business. You've neglected it >> for the most part, you know.

>> Was it just you and him? >> I'm doing like the back end of it, you know. >> Was it just you and him prior to you getting this property?

>> It was me, him, and then I was training another uh younger fella.

>> So, this is a super small business. So the way So the way you set it up is should I reinvest in it?

>> And I was immediately like, well, I'm not going to tell anybody to reinvest in anything that's failing until we know why it's failing. And now we know why it's failing. And it's failing because you just literally have not been doing anything. And you got one guy who maybe he enjoyed doing it when you were involved with him, maybe he didn't, maybe life has changed for him, whatever. But the reality is is that this company is you. And the thing

that's curious to me is that you said, "I knew this was going to happen." In other words, I knew the business was going to start to falter if I spent time on this property. So, I got to believe, Casey, that means that you thought this property was going to make you more money than this business. Is that the logic there?

>> No. Um, >> then why would we knowingly buy and put time and money into something that we know is going to hurt our primary business?

So, this this company is not the primary business. >> It's about your primary income.

>> No. >> What do you do full? >> Well, that would have been nice to know. What What's What is this? A side hustle?

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, I I started this about seven years ago. I've built it up to a $500,000 a year company.

>> What's your primary income?

>> It's last year I netted about Well, no,

I'm sorry. I had taxable income about 500,000. >> Doing what?

>> Uh laundromats and real estate.

>> Okay. Well, that would have been nice to know 5 minutes ago. So, I >> Perfect. So, this is one of several businesses and you're saying, "Should I try to keep this one alive?" No. No. You clearly don't care about it.

>> I I do. I do care about it.

>> Oh my gosh. If this was a human being, if this was your wife and you neglected her, I said, "Man, what what I know I care about her. I just uh neglected her for the last nine months while I worked on this other thing. Dude, you don't care enough about the business to keep it alive and I would not put a dime into it.

Yeah, reinvesting is not going to do anything if there's nobody to do the work.

>> Uh you got a half a million dollar income that's, you know, just reoccurring income because you've got all these laundromats. So, I don't know why you would try to express to us that you care about it because you called us going, "Hey guys, should I should I give this thing a go or not, which means you weren't you were on the fence?" >> Well, I wanted to in the beginning I was hoping for just an unbiased opinion

regarding, you know, what other incomes I had. Well, but but my point is I appreciate that, but the reason we wasted all that time and me not be able to give you good answers because we have to determine whether or not this is a smart move for you to put money in this business, I'm thinking it was your primary income because I didn't have any other evidence. >> So now we know you don't need the income. >> So you need focus. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're chasing too many rabbits.

>> Yeah. >> So what's going on with this property? You inherited it. You put a bunch of money into it. Are you trying to flip it? Are you trying to rent it out?

>> No. So, um, the property I inherited, it

was in a trust for the last 20 years.

The trust finally came due. Um, it was

my grandfather's property. He had a laundromat in there, which I'm currently operating.

Um, and that needs to be renovated. It was neglected for 20 years. Nobody literally did anything there.

>> Okay. So, you've been investing into that. Are you doing this all with cash or are you in debt?

>> No, this is all cash. Um, and I'm primarily doing it myself.

>> Okay. So, do you want to focus your time? What's your What's your real question here? Because I would drop this business. What's at stake here if you cut the HVAC business completely?

>> Um, nothing besides uh $7,000

left on my truck payment.

>> You told me you didn't have any debt.

>> Well, that's business debt, not personal debt. >> Uh, buddy Casey signed on that. That's

Casey's debt.

Okay. All right. Sorry. The business has 7,000 in debt. >> You have 7,000 in debt. So, you can sell the truck, right?

>> Uh, I mean, I could pay off the debt.

>> Are you going to keep the truck?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I use that for for for everything. >> Other things. Okay. So, pay off the truck today and sell whatever equipment that you don't need anymore and just be done with the business. That's a better deal than investing into a business that will continue to fail because nobody's got their eyes on it.

and then just put your focus on what really matters, the stuff that you really enjoy that also has the most ROI for you. That's what I would do personally. >> Yeah, I agree. And and to your initial initial question, there's really nothing to reinvest. Um, you just got your

senior tech has found other opportunities or feels like he can take advantage of you because you're so checked out. It's one of the two as to why it's two days a week that the guy's sick. So, >> well, I don't I don't know if it's if it's that really that or if he's actually really having >> medical issues. >> Well, the fact that you don't know tells me that you're you're hands off.

So, reinvesting is your time. So, maybe for 30 days you get back involved and you pay attention. And then you see, >> is this thing worth shutting down or is this thing worth keeping? It's pretty it's going to be pretty simple.

You're so handsoff right now. You don't know if the guy's got black lung or if he's just messing, you know, he's just lying to you. You don't know. >> No, no.

I mean, I'm not I I see him every day. I talk to him every day. I'm I'm doing all the backend stuff.

>> The reason why the business started failing is I stopped doing service calls, >> right? >> And you're not going to start is what I'm saying. Say reinvest. You don't have the time or passion to reinvest and therefore just get out of the business. >> Yeah. Now I'm more convinced now that I'm getting >> I've also been interviewing trying to hire more technicians. The van

that we have, we have two vehicles. The the one is has 175,000 miles on it. It

has been more in the shop than it's been on the road lately. I wanted to buy a new vehicle to get another tech out there. That was the reinvestment part.

>> Okay. Well, we're taking information as you give it to us.

It's like >> I I don't know how much to give without, you know, you know what I mean? Well, it's when you ask for advice, >> uh, just future advice for you. When asking for advice from other people, give them all the information at once.

It makes it a little easier. Uh, George, I'm with you. >> I don't think getting an a different van for the work is going to solve this cuz you still got to find people who care and I don't want to work with a guy who's, you know, got one foot out of the business who doesn't care. >> So, I would maybe sell the book of business for what you can get for it and maybe that'll pay off the truck and just be done, man.

>> Yeah. And uh I >> You don't need to run 19 businesses. No, you're doing great. >> Sounds like the laundromat business is really good in Long Island.

Who would have thought? >> People got to do laundry.

>> What would I call it, George?

>> Uh what would be a good name for my laundry? >> I think just laundromat. That's what people look for when they look for I think just keep it clear. >> It's good branding. >> All right. Hey folks, remember this.

There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 2. "My Debt Payment is 50% of My Income" | November 3, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is88255225LE88255225.

All right, we're going to get to your calls coming up very soon. Really fun

story from my colleague here. You may know her journey. She and Sam are hubs paid off half a million dollars in debt.

She gets you, folks. If you're in debt, she gets you. She really does. Fun story I asked her to share. I've gotten to know her and Sam very well. And so that's coming up. You don't want to miss that. Those of you who are kind of on that edge today, you're going, "Can I do this? Can I make it?

>> You can make it." >> She's going to tell you how. It's going to be fun. But first, Jack is up in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jack, how can we

help today? >> Hey guys, uh, thank you so much for taking my call. I um I bought a RV for 60,000 um on a 15-year

loan at 18% interest.

>> Wow. Why'd you do that?

>> Um, I'm realizing how bad of a decision it was. It was to live in um to save up

eventually for a house. Um, and uh I'm

realizing like the interest is um 800 a month on just interest.

>> My goodness.

only 50 bucks goes to the principal and I'm realizing it'll be like 16 months before I even scratch the surface under what I borrowed. >> So, uh I was wondering cuz obviously I

want to get out of it now. Um >> I started the the baby steps. Um all I

had was like like a thousand personal

loan, 2,000 personal loan. I had some student loans. Um, I had some credit cards, but uh I I only made 2,000 a

month when I bought it. So, I don't even know how I got approved for it, >> right? >> But, um, >> subprime >> one one by one. And, uh, I got rid of

everything except for the camper. Um, my income's about 4,000 a month now.

>> Okay. >> So, um, >> where are you living?

Uh, um, I got a job as a truck driver, so in the truck.

>> Okay.

Okay. >> Are you okay? >> You don't You don't sound okay. >> You sound very okay to me. And maybe it's just your voice, but I'm just sensitive. >> I'm really nervous. I'm really nervous.

I just >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I'm good. >> Okay. Great. >> Okay. So, you've got Did I understand correctly when you said you got rid of all the other debt except this RV?

>> Yeah. Everything. Um. >> Okay. Good. I did make a little mistake.

I know you're supposed to save a thousand first and with the first thousand I put it towards the deck.

>> Um >> Okay. >> And but yes, I have my $1,000.

Everything else is gone. >> Good. >> Except for this camper >> and you still owe 60. What's it worth if you were to sell it?

>> Uh the dealership offered 31.

>> Oh, lordy. But what if you were to sell it private sale? Have you looked into that? I have it. I have it listed for 38. And um I've been trying to call the

show for a couple months now. So I owe

uh 4 uh8 on it now. >> You owe 48 on it now. And you could sell it for 31.

>> 38. I just got it listed at 31.

>> 38. >> So you're a 10ou it's a $10,000 deficit

there. What keeps you from going down to a credit union or going down to a bank or getting any kind of loan to to to

clear this out? Why don't we do that?

>> I uh canceled my credit cards when I removed them and it brought my credit score down pretty low. >> Uhhuh. >> What about a credit union?

>> Have you gone into a bank to see? Cuz at this point, here's here's my thinking on this. My rationale is there's not a worse loan than the one you have. And this is going You're going down. You're going from $48,000 of debt to $10,000 of

debt. I'm going to take that deal every time. >> Even if even if the terms aren't great.

>> Well, yeah, because you're going to knock it out. You make 4,000 bucks a month. You knocked out the other debt. Why can't you knock out this $10,000 of debt very quickly?

>> That's true. Um I I was uh cuz I was

trying to rent it as well to see if I could try to get money out of it. Um,

>> but every moment you wait, it's dropping in value because because you're in such a bad loan, right? The interest alone is $800 a month. >> So, you got time is not on your side, my friend. >> Listen, we're coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'd call our friends at Fairwinds and say, "Hey, I was just on the show with Jade and Ken and here's my situation and uh I I've

made progress. Will you guys help me out?" And and and and if they can help me out, they will. And to your to Jade's

point, then if we can sell this thing and then they take over the loan for the the the minimal amount you're going to have left, you can knock that out. So, you want to get rid of this because this is a depreciating asset. That's why she's telling you that you got to get rid of it. >> I would only And for anybody listening who's like, Jay told him to get a loan.

She told him to take it out on a credit card. She told him to take a bad loan.

We're going down, people. We're going from 48 down to 10. We're not going up.

He's not taking a loan to go into debt.

He's taking a lesser loan to get out of debt. So that's the difference there for anybody who's trying to clock something that's [laughter] not there.

>> Yeah. Uh and now what is this is this truck job what's your opportunity to make more money than the 4,000 a month?

>> Um well in the beginning um it was like

that's what I was getting because uh I was in training. Um I also do all the services on his trucks because he owns um he owns a trucking company. So I do all the mechanic work on them >> um for side money on cash when I am uh at Indianapolis >> um cuz it is long haul.

>> So as we look forward, how much more additional money can you make then the 4,000?

>> 4 to 6,000 a month I'd say take home.

>> All right. And long-term is is this a great opportunity for you to get to the six figure range?

>> Uh it seems like it. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Well, what's the lesson here uh that you've learned? You know, because a lot of times we'll teach out of this. I want people to hear from you today because you're you're sitting in this calling us with a pit in your stomach. So, what's the lesson for everybody else? >> Don't get the dealership uh markups.

Don't get the warranty stuff. Um don't

buy new. Like, ask someone older than

you. >> Yeah. >> You know, I haven't Yeah. Uh it's I'm

I'm definitely not doing that anymore.

>> Yeah. How old are you, Jack?

>> I just turned 20. >> 20 years of age. >> You learned a great lesson at a young age, my friend. >> That's awesome. >> I wish I wish it didn't cost 60,000.

>> Yeah, that's all right. But it's a good lesson to learn. Hey, no one no one gets out if let me not no one. Few people get

out unscathed when you when you walk into the real world, right? You get out of college, you start your life as an adult. Few Jack uh get out of this

without making major mistakes. That's how we learn. And for you, I want you to look at this. Don't look at it as, "Oh my gosh, my mistake. I ruined my life." Just look at it as some research you did. You did a little bit of research and you found out that buying an RV to live in or buying anything that goes down in value is not a good idea. Now you can stick that in your pocket and keep it as a knowledge base for later.

>> Yeah. I love it. Makes me think of the old song. >> What? >> By Ray Charles.

>> Hit the road, Jack. And don't you come back. No more. No more. No more. Hit the road, Jack. That's what he's saying to debt. >> That's good. >> Yeah. Come on. You know, sometimes I think of these old school things. Now, if Rachel were next to me, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. >> I thought you were going to say something totally different. >> No. Hit the road, Jack. I like it. He got on the road in the 18-wheeler. He's getting after it. He's 20 years of age.

He learned his lesson. I love his lessons. He did a great job, America.

You You heard Jack. And uh he's going to be okay. He's going to do great. He's only 20 years of age. He learned a big lesson. Now he's on the road to being debtree.

[music]

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And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one

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[music]

[music]

Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw uh hanging out with you today. And uh I Jade,

[music] Stacey and I, we've gotten to be really good friends with you and Sam and and as we get to know you guys, your story is so powerful. And and it occurred to me today that there are a lot of people coming in all the time. We have some people that are, you know, baby step one, they're just trying to get >> all right, >> $1,000. That's a scramble.

>> It's tough. >> Uh there are some people that are in baby step two and they're looking at that mountain and they're just trying to get some momentum. And it just occurred to me that you've got some incredible stories, not the least of which uh is

from the mountain that you climbed.

>> Yeah. >> $500,000 you two went through. We were we were at dinner recently and you we were talking about some of the crazy things and crazy stories. >> Yeah. >> So I want just to bring it in because

story is what connects to people, >> right? >> Take us to one of maybe the more memorable moments from your journey of paying off that kind of money. What comes to mind? I mean, if I really think about it, the story the story that stands out probably most to me is probably that I've had it moment, Ken, because I think we've all been there where you've kind of understood, hey, I need to make some changes with my money.

I probably need to get on this plan that Ramsay's talking about, and you you start it and you feel like you're you're doing the thing, but you're still so frustrated, right? How many people have started the Ramsey plan and they kind of feel like they're taking two steps forward, one step back, cuz life hits, right?

And I I remember that, at least for me,

uh I woke up in the morning, and the first thing that woke me up in the morning was my phone buzzing.

>> And when I looked at the number, it it was 1-800 Pay Me, which is what I call the debt collectors. [laughter] It was a credit card. And you know, back

then I was kind of in avoidance mode. So I just hit this the the the button so that it would go to voicemail and then 5 minutes later it buzzed again.

>> And then 10 minutes later it buzzed again. >> Not how you want to start a day. >> Well, I that was the way I started my days. That was just the way it was because what I didn't realize, I wasn't doing what the plan taught.

I wasn't paying minimum payments on everything and then putting the extra money to the smallest. I was just trying to put all the money on the smallest debt.

Back then, we were doing a bunch of side hustles and a lot of times we'd get paid in cash and then we'd have to take the cash to the bank to deposit it so that we could actually pay our bills. And so, that day we were going to deposit like 300 bucks in cash to the bank so that we could pay our rent. And on the way to the bank, the phone buzzed and it buzzed

again and it buzzed again. And when I

tell you, Ken, I lost it.

>> I lost it. I was like, "Pull I pull the car over." That's what I told Sam. I said, "Pull the car over." And he's like, "Okay, okay." Like, "Is it me?

What did I do?" But you know, Sam, he's like, "When Jade gets like this, I just need to listen." >> Right. Right. >> So, he pulled the car over and I proceeded to just go go off.

>> I was like, "We've been working this plan. We've been doing everything right.

What do we have to show for it?" You know, and I I was so angry. And the worst part of it was here we are. I'm going off. We're sitting in our Jeep, which has payments on it.

>> The AC barely works, right? And it's South Florida, so it's hot. And you know, the moment you slow down, the AC stops working even more. So, we're just sitting in this hot butt car >> just, you know, and I'm crying and Sam is like, "Oh my gosh, like what do I do?" M >> and I remember I picked up the money that we were supposed to be depositing.

And I said, "Let's just give this to the credit card company so they can stop calling me. $300." They wanted like $298. And back then, that felt like

>> the world. I would have done anything to get that money in that moment. But I feel like I had already I was already doing the side hustles. I was already working full time. Like I was already doing everything. And I was ready to give them my rent money. Mhm.

>> And Sam was like, "We can't do that." He was like, "We can't do that. We have to stay the course. We have to do what we know to do." And I remember for like the next 2 hours, we just sat. And it was kind of like we went after all the emotions subsided, we sat and went through it all with a fine tooth comb and was like, "What are we missing?

What are we missing here? What are we doing wrong? Cuz it shouldn't feel like this." And that's when we figured out, hey, we're not doing it correct. We're putting all of our money to the smallest debt.

We're not we're not paying the minimums first. We don't have $1,000 saved.

That's why we're trying to give them rent money. That's why and sometimes that's what we have to do when we feel those moments of frustration like our emotions are taking over. We have to stop and go, "What am I missing?" And it's almost like you need to do an audit and go back over your behavior because when you're in this plan, there's so much that we're throwing at you. Save $1,000.

Do it like this. Stop eating out. Stop your withholding. Stop your, you know, change your W4.

All that kind of stuff. And it can be hard to remember it all and before you do it, you think before you know it, you're you're missing something. Something's a little bit off. And it's all with the best of intentions.

But that's just one of the many ways that our emotions can make us want to give up. They can kind of throw a wrench in the whole thing and it everything just grinds to a halt.

I really care about that because I hear it all the time in calls. >> Yeah. I'm going to ask you from your journey plus the calls that you've now you've sat in thousands of calls.

>> All right. What is one of the most prevalent, one of the most obvious emotions that you see in this debt-free journey getting control of your money?

What's an emotion that you see pretty commonly? >> I mean, what I just gave an example of would be frustration. But what we hear a lot here on the calls, it's anger.

>> It's that anger of wait a second, I did everything right. The culture said I'm supposed to, you know, go to college. if I go to college and get a good degree, I'll be successful. So, I get a student loan for that because that's what they said to do and I did it.

And then when I graduated, I was told that I could celebrate and get a car loan because that's what you do when you graduate. So, I got my car loan and then I got married and I bought a house. I did everything right. Why am I up to my eyeballs in debt and stress?

you're a person who It's kind of like what Dr. Johnny Dr. Johnny Dr. John Deloney would say.

>> Let's please start calling him Johnny Deloney. >> Dr. Johnny, >> that's funny. uh you know he would say not by my hand but in my lap and a lot of us are dealing with that.

It's like we didn't cause the financial struggle but here we are left to deal with it >> and it makes us mad. You know I thought the government was going to pay off my student loans. I waited. I did the public service student loan thing.

They didn't come in. They didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So there's a lot of things that have caused us to be disenchanted with the whole thing. And that anger is real.

I'm hearing this, correct me if I'm wrong, what you really believe based on your own experience >> and then coaching a lot of people

>> is that winning with money isn't just about our process. It's also winning with the emotions that come with this process. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Absolutely. I think that >> that's the key to winning though with those emotions. How do you how do you deal with those emotions and stay on track? >> You know what I learned? It's endurance.

You have to embrace endurance because endurance produces maturity. That's that's truly what the Bible says. >> That's exactly what it says. >> But I learned that running a marathon.

>> When I ran and I'm talking about an actual marathon, not a financial marathon. >> I can vouch for this. >> She's a warrior princess. >> When you when I started when I said I want to run this marathon, the first thing that came was, oh my gosh, it's going to be hard.

Oh my gosh. Uh it's going to last for three months. There's a there's a long time period that you have to embrace. there's a discomfort that you have to embrace.

I remember midway through training, my Achilles was hurting, my quads were hurting, but you have to run anyway, right? Then you go out there and some days it's raining and you have the the weather's not good and you have to run anyway because you know if you just follow the process, if you just do the training, you will cross the finish line. That is a given. And millions of people have done it before me.

So if I just accept the process, if I can get to a point of acceptance that I have to just endure this thing, a hard thing for a long period of time, I can win.

The conditions are not always going to be favorable. There's going to be pain.

There's going to be discomfort. You're going to have to do it day after day after day. And sometimes it gets harder before it gets easier. But if you keep going, you will cross your finish line.

So, that's a fun example right there of

just a smidge of something I know you're very excited about. I'm holding in my hands something really, really cool.

>> Look at that, Ken Coleman. >> It's uh first of all, it's a fabulous picture of you. >> Thank you. >> Good grief. >> Well, for those listening, it's a book.

>> Did you do a couple push-ups before they took that picture? >> That was after the marathon. >> So, for those [laughter] listening, I'm holding in my hands your brand new book.

It's called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone who's been there. And that's just one of the amazing stories.

Just real quick, tell folks how they can get this. This is exciting. >> Yeah. Go to ramseyolutions.com/store.

You can pick one up. It's on pre-sale, guys, today. Please, if you've ever been

stuck, if you've ever wanted to throw up your hands, if you're sick of taking two steps forward, one step back, if you just need something, you're like, Jade, how what can I do? This is the book for you. I'm not just an expert yapping at you. I am your buddy walking with you, getting kneede in the emotions with you.

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[music] >> All right, let's go to Elijah who's joining us in Oregon. Elijah, how can we help today? strong name. I like it.

>> How's it going? >> How's it going? Biblical name. That's what everyone always tells me. I'm happy to have it. >> That's right.

>> What's going on? >> Um, so, uh, basically I'm going to try and, uh, tell this story as concisely as possible. Um, but it is kind of a tricky one. So, basically, um, I was engaged to a girl and, uh, we were together for a few months. Um, I mean engaged for a few months. We were together for, uh, over a year. But um she started expressing doubts and ultimately she told me she wanted to end the engagement.

>> And around that time we found out that we were pregnant together.

>> Oh. >> Um yeah. So I um I was adamant about,

hey, I think we should really try and stay together for the kid sake. I think we should follow through with staying together. And so she was open to it for a little while. I moved her into my place. She has two kids, so we moved the whole family. Um, and uh, but ultimately

I think she just kind of felt trapped being at my place and she she ended up leaving and going back to her place. She got her u her ex-boyfriend, one of her other kids' fathers to help her move and he was kind of helping her out for a week. And um yeah, and so she she left

and uh I was working on a wildfire at the time and uh when I got off um I guess she get you know her uh her ex-boyfriend kind of went out of state to go work a job and so she kind of started reaching out back out to me for help and uh she doesn't really want to be together but she's been um she's been asking for a lot of financial support and she hasn't really guaranteed me that I'm going to even get to have like a relationship with my you know with our baby on the way.

She's pretty adamant about just wanting to raise raise her on her own and then just kind of receive child support. >> And so she's not open to any kind of 50/50 custody or anything like that. And um >> Oh wow. >> You know, so I I wanted to be helpful to her.

Obviously, she's the mother of this child, you know, that we created. Um but it's really hard to not kind of feel like I'm I'm just sort of being taken advantage of. Um we kind of agreed on that I would I would give her a little bit of money out of each paycheck to kind of help her out. She gets she was getting a little bit of child support from her other fathers.

Um but um but even that she hasn't really been getting lately cuz they like lost their job. The other one's working under the table. >> Do they have do do her other two kids have two separate dads?

>> Yeah, two separate fathers. I would be the third father to have a kid with >> situation. I hate this that this is happening to you because this is tough.

Really tough emotionally.

>> But man, you've dodged a bullet.

This [laughter] I'm Listen, I'm not >> okay. >> No, I mean I'm I'm saying like just you have dodged this is not a a woman that I

think you want to settle down with.

We've got two other dudes, two other kids. She is taking advantage of you.

You She doesn't want you in the picture.

She doesn't value you. Assuming that everything you're telling us is true.

>> Let me ask you straight up, Elijah. Uh what what did you do? Did you do anything or are you completely innocent holding a bag? Like did did you do anything to cause this to come to an end?

>> I mean, I want to try and be as honest as I can. Um but the reason I'm calling you guys is because I feel like what she and I have been doing is like I'll talk to my people and they'll be like, "Well, she's taking advantage of you." And then she'll talk to her people and they'll say, "Well, he's not stepping up as a man or whatever." Okay. And so I would say that the main problems I can tell you what she's expressed what her problems with me were.

Like um it would be stuff like uh I would put on an audio Bible at night and accidentally wake her up and she thought that was inconsistent. >> Not you listening to the Bible. Come on.

[laughter] >> I I mean I think it was more >> Hold on a second. All right. Hold on a second. I think everybody knows that I took you at face value, but now I'm starting to doubt you when you dropped the Bible. That's the first thing that she griped about. Are you shooting me straight? >> Nothing. I'm telling you this because that was um that was uh the night before she left. >> How late at night was Okay, I got to do a follow-up. America needs to know this.

How late at night was it?

>> Um I don't know. It might have been 10 or 11 or something.

>> It might It might have been It might have been in the middle of the night. It might have been like uh like I woke up to get a glass of water and I was having trouble sleeping or something. >> And so you're right next to her. So you're right next to her listening to the Old Testament.

[laughter] >> I'd be pissed too. I don't care if it's the Bible or not. But I'm trying to sleep. Go to the living room.

But that doesn't sound like But but that doesn't sound like worthy of this. >> Yeah. I was trying to get at did you do anything like did you cheat? Did you Were you being a jerk in some kind of way?

Okay. I was listening to your Bible arguments, but >> All right. Do you Do you not understand? >> No.

It was like >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> Well, I just want to ask you, you laughed when I said it, and I don't mind being laughed at.

[laughter] >> I'm sitting right here. It really does.

Uh, do you not understand what I mean when I say you dodged a relationship bullet here? As hard as this is, and I hate that the custody thing is a thing. I got a lady in the front row. This is a wise woman. I can just see and she's giving me a thumbs up. So, that means I'm right. >> Uh, which is rare, too.

>> Uh, you know, you've dodged a bullet and I share that to say this is painful.

This is tough. >> Um, but I think you need to understand that what you have a responsibility to is child support. >> That's right. So, I would uh on the fin, let me tie this up in in my opinion.

>> Um, and then I got an outlier towards the end here, okay? And I want to get out of the way, let Jade weigh in, but I'll say that uh I think part of your healing needs to be >> I really dodged a bullet here. This is a very complex relationship I was in. It's

messy. She does not seem like long-term

material to me. I'm not judging, folks.

I call balls and strikes. Okay? Uh and and so we dodged a bullet. That should help you recover a little bit quicker.

Two, uh I'm okay with you continuing to

give her the money that you agreed to because you said it was a small amount and and I would keep your word unless she does something that would then morally disqualify her. And you go, "Well, you didn't keep your word. I'm going to keep mine." And then I would wait for the judge to >> She continues to ask for more and she's been spending on things that aren't essential. >> That's not your problem. Tell me what hold on a second. Sorry. Hold on. It's not your problem. >> I don't care how many times she asks.

You give her what you agreed to, unless she violates the agreement, then you don't have to give her anything. And then I'd wait for the judge to tell you because the judge is going to tell you. >> Well, and I want to know what that amount is. What are you giving her now?

>> It was uh I basically went off of what she got child support from from her other people. And it was something like um it was something like 250 to 300 out

of every like couple weeks. And so it was only like 500 a month. But I went back and ultimately I was giving her because she would continue asking for more. And ultimately it was like two to three times as much as what I ended up giving her.

Uh I I want to jump in here because there is part of this I I want to know more because the truth is if you were taking care of because the child support obviously it needs to start while she's pregnant because she's carrying the baby. So usually it's based off of a percentage of what you're earning. So likening it to the other guys.

>> Ah I get why you're doing it but it might not necessarily be fair if you were making more than them and if you are were in a situation where you were previously providing more. Um, so there's part of that that I want to be fair to the baby and fair to what it actually takes to carry.

>> We need to get a judge involved in this >> and you need to do that sooner than later. But >> but not give her any more money. Don't give her anymore till we get a judge involved. You give her what you said you're going to give her.

I'm going to take a hard line on that one cuz she's asking for more and she's she's manipulating you and she's holding that baby over you. I don't like it. One of the one of the concerns is like obviously just kind of like there's you know um and that's kind of one why I wanted to talk to you guys because obviously there's a lot of emotional parts involved for me but her her two fathers her only income source is child support. She she lives for free on her grandmother's um problem but her her only income is child support and so her two fathers basically stop paying child support.

but I mean she you know she's the mother of my child. Like I obviously don't want her to go hungry while she's growing our baby. >> I understand that your your only commitment is is whatever the fair and equitable child support number is. If you want to give more than that, you can.

But she's manipulating you right now. The very nature of that question is a guy who's been manipulated emotionally. And I get it. You got a good heart.

But she will take advantage of this. Her two deadbeat dudes that she got pregnant with the first time. That's her problem and their problem. It's not your problem.

This is a country music song is what this is. This entire call is a number one hit. And I know because we're in music city. I mean you if you got any musical talent, you might want to write this one.

It could really take off. >> In the meantime, in the meantime, Elijah, go online and look at just kind of some standards to get an idea. I'm looking here. Standard is usually 17% for one child, 25% for two, 29% for three.

how she's carrying your baby today. So, you need to weigh you need to weigh that in. I'm not saying be taken advantage of, but I'm just saying >> she's a mess. No matter how much money this guy gets, >> but it's all together. It's all together is all I'm saying. >> I get it. >> I'm thinking of the baby. >> It's a country music song. Somebody write that.

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All

right, let's go to Taylor who's joining us now in Cleveland, Ohio. Taylor, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. So, my question is, uh, my

husband started a side hustle last year,

um, doing home inspections. So, this is not his full-time career gig. Uh, this

is just something that he thought would be lucrative and, um, I think he just really wants to be a business owner, and I appreciate that about him.

>> My question is, um, so we we have no

debt on the business. Praise Jesus. Um but upfront we spent about $13,000 like

for him to go to school to get his permits, all the equipment he you know he needed. Um and then every month we're

paying like $300ish dollars for the program that like the software he uses um our insurance and all of that like business insurance. >> Okay. So, and obviously home inspections

are not super um consistent like they

can, you know, vary every month. So, I guess my question is >> at what point do we say this business is

costing us money every month? It's not making us anything. >> It's not profitable at all.

>> Well, okay. So, like I said, it varies.

So, like this month, he's had no home inspections at all. So, we have been paying the $300 on all these things that we need to sustain the business.

>> Uhhuh. >> But haven't made any money.

>> Um, >> what about over the life of two home inspection? >> You got to look at it over the life of the business. When did he start it?

>> He started So, he he was off the ground in March. >> Okay. And since March, >> how much has You got to look at it as it is. Since March, how much he's brought in? It's just, >> you know, a balance sheet. how much he's brought in minus how many expenses and what's what's the number.

>> So with a debt of about well not debt but what we paid out about 13,000 um >> plus the 300 a month >> he's done >> yes he's done about eight home inspections at roughly like $400 a

piece. >> Okay. >> Um >> so 32 >> right and that's that is all at this

point. >> Okay. And do you guys have you decided at what point the break even should be and at what point he should be profitable? Because here's the thing. If you guys didn't set out what the plan is, then we don't know at what point to pull the trigger. Because >> it's fair it's fair to say it's going to take some time to earn a profit. But once he starts turning it, everything after that is profit. So once he makes 13,000 uh or 14,000 with the $300 a

month, then then you're profitable. So you guys have to decide that.

Yeah, that's true. I could absolutely see where you're coming from on that. >> Are you calling or are you calling on behalf of him? In other words, he's wondering. I thought so. So, if if

>> you're not the risk taker, [laughter] >> right? So, if I run into him today and we don't know about this call and I say to him, uh, what do you do? And and, uh, he says, I'm in I'm in Cleveland and I've got this job, but then I've got a little home inspection business that I've got going. And I say, well, how do you feel about that? How's what's he going to say to me in response to that?

Oh, he's going to say it's great.

>> Okay. >> And he's going to say he's, like I said, he's more of the dreamer. So, he is like, you know, we just have to wait another month. I just need to be doing this or that or I need to get, you know, in with a realtor, which in theory, absolutely, he does, and I support that.

>> The problem is, like I mentioned, this is his sidekick. So, he can't put as much effort into this as he does his full-time career because we also have two small children. and I work part-time, you know, so we have all these other >> a lot going on. All right, let me ask another question, >> right? >> Do you do you uh manage the budget? Are you the nerd that's more in the numbers?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. [laughter] And by the way, and so then the 300 a month, how how tight

>> is that from a number standpoint, not from an emotional standpoint? We know the answer. The idea that we're spending 300 a month and it's not ROIing is driving you nuts. You're breaking out in hives. I get it. But I'm talking real numbers. How much does the $300 a month

affect you guys?

>> I mean, it it's not like we are trying to rub nickels together here. Um, what I will say, the other factor that's kind of it plays in for me is that his full-time job, um, he recently left the

position that he was in and went somewhere else and we did take a pay cut there. >> So, and that was his choice and I was

hesitant, you know, taking about

>> So, he is making about $10,000 less a

year than he was. >> And what baby step are you guys on?

So, we we are completely paid off aside from our house. >> Okay, that's great. Can I ask you a question? >> We're 32 and 34. >> Okay, so you have time. My question for you, um, if I were your husband, what's your husband's name? You don't have to say. >> It's Eric. >> Okay. >> It's okay. It's [laughter] >> love him.

>> If I was Eric, my question would be, okay, honey, how do you think that we Because the truth is we've we've sunk 15,000 into this. My plan was that over

time we'd recoup that from the business and then we'd be profitable. Yeah.

>> If we stop the business now, honey, how do you think that we're going to recoup the 15,000?

>> Okay. So, I can tell you the answer to that. >> Hit me. >> So, he he's like, "Well, I can start a

mowing company or like a lawn care business." >> So, it's business after business after business cuz he'd have to create a new >> No, no. Let me tell you what I'd tell Eric. Okay. >> Well, [laughter] wait, wait, wait. She didn't answer the question. That was how Eric That's how Eric would answer. I want to know how would you answer. I want to know in your mind, how do you recoup the 15,000 if it's not through the business that was supposed to recoup it?

>> So, I honestly if if that if it were up

to me, I would just say call it a loss,

time to be done. And I would take the money that we were putting towards the business every month and I would be putting it on our house payment. That's just the way we actually just got our PMI taken off, which saves us about $200 a month for that, which I then in turn have been putting on our principal.

>> So, I I would like to put even more on

that [clears throat] if we could because it it's not, you know, like I mentioned, it's not like we're rubbing the nickels together to get this 300 a month, >> but I feel like we would be better suited putting it somewhere else. >> On a scale of 1 to 10, what's your risk tolerance on a scale of 1 to 10? >> I'm raising my hand when it's my turn.

Uh, probably like a twoish. I am not I'm

not >> and I know I need to work on that.

>> Can I Can I go now? Okay. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm trying to set you free. Okay.

>> He wants to do something entrepreneurial. >> Yeah. >> You guys have already invested the 13,000.

>> Yes. He's slowgoing, but he's got a lot going on. This is a good man. There's no marital tension here. I'm talking to two responsible people that are on baby step six. Here's what I think >> your encouragement would be to him.

>> Hey babe, >> how many realtors do we know?

>> Mhm. >> And if we don't know any realtor, who do we know that know any realtor?

>> And this does not take a lot of time. He can carry a full-time job, help you at home with all of his husband and dad duties and still connect to realtors and go, "Hey, I've launched a business. If you're looking for somebody reputable, uh if you get in a pinch, even though you may have a guy, I can be your guy.

And he does this. And this is phone calls on the way to work, phone calls on the way home, phone calls during lunch.

This is a simple solution. There's no need for him to stop this business and go to something else. He hasn't given enough time, nor can I say, and it's not critique. It's not a critique. He's just not given enough energy. Mhm.

>> And so you could say to him, "Hey babe, >> I I have a little bit of right here because we're putting 300 a month in and I'd like this to start to ROI, but I believe in you and so I think this is what we need to do." And you say, "I called the Ramsay Show, blame it on me.

I don't care. It's easy cuz I'm not going to be in the dining room. Blame it on me, too. Blame it on Jade." Okay.

That's why I was chomping at the bit to go. I think you're focused on the wrong thing. And I love your I love that you want it to ROI and it should, but instead of shutting it down, >> you got to give it time. >> You got to give it time. And don't forget what this is for him.

>> This is a bigger deal to him >> than what it is to you. And I think I'd let this thing play, but it's okay for you as one half of this marriage >> to have a voice and to say, I think it should ROI and babe, here's what I think we do. And by the way, you could go reach out to some realtors. And it's okay for you who's a two on the risk meter to say, I do want to put >> some sort of timeline on this >> that if we get to a certain point and we're still nowhere close to ROIing on this that we need to consider what comes next.

That's fair. >> That is 100% fair. And I think that becomes obvious. It's not for us to decide.

>> Uh but I hope that helps. You're a sweet, sweet, sweet lady and a great wife. Uh let this thing play out. Let's start recruiting.

Let's go find more realtors. the more realtors he's in front of that he gets some type of a deal with, the [music] more inspections he's going to get, the more inspections he gets, the more money he makes, the happier you are when you see that budget every month. And that [music] is what it's all about.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver.

Dayton, how can we help today?

>> Hey there, guys. Um, yeah, calling in.

Just I'll make it as brief as I can. Um, it's a bit of a mindset kind of thing.

Um my wife and I quite a few years ago we had quite a bit of debt about 22,000 and we had worked hard to pay that off and then since then we've had three kids bought a house and then a lot of things have happened and racked up quite a bit more debt. Um my my mind my mindset

question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again? We're just starting the baby steps and uh we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it. um there's a lot of shame around like sticking to our budget, like looking at our finances and stuff. So, I'm just wondering if you guys can kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out.

>> So, my first question would be when you back in the day when you paid off the 22,000, what did it what did it look like to pay that off? Did it was it painful or was it kind of like we're going to do this and once it was done, it was done?

>> Um, initially it was kind of painful like I can't believe I did this. uh credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18. And then um I just worked I I was at a job where I could work tons of overtime. So I pretty much worked seven days a week, >> 60 70 hours a week kind of thing. And we just we worked through it and it felt really good when we got out of debt, but it was it was a grind getting through it. >> How long did that take?

>> Um I was able to pay that off in about

11 months, I think it was. So without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What what what type of things?

>> Well, in that window, um pretty much right after that, we got married and then we had our first child and then we

had our second child and then I did a career change that cost me um quite a

bit of money to go to school down in Texas. And then um we bought a house um

and then we had a third child. And you know when you buy a house to make it what you want it, you you end up spending money thinking that it's going to be okay. >> So what kind of career change was this?

What are you doing now?

>> Uh I'm a firefighter now.

>> And what did that cost you?

>> Uh it cost me about $20,000 to get into that. >> Do you still have a loan on that?

>> Uh no. So well yeah, I guess it's part of my one of my line of credits. um I used to get into that. >> And so I'm hearing one of your line of credits and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids.

>> Yes.

>> Interesting. Yeah. Um I'm just thinking about what you're saying. And first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet, right?

So you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one I'm a person that I think everything is in the process. The first time it took you about 11 months. The truth is the debt wasn't that drastic.

It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off, but you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's you, it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more.

that you need?" >> And I I I think I hear the mindset that got you into it, and I'll try to give you an idea of the mindset that got you out that's going to keep you out, which is I think um Dayton, a lot of times

when we are in our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not, it

doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like I work hard, I deserve to spend, right? I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want.

I deserve to have the car and the house I want. After all, I've worked hard. And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in because that's what's happened to you. You listed it.

You're like, "Well, we had kids and then I wanted this career and then I wanted this house." And it's kind of like, what other thing would cause you to go into debt other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. >> And then the the other side of that I deserve is you're also seeing what other people have and it's like, well, how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house. The people around me have the car and so you're you're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see. Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. Yeah. To a degree. I mean, like I never we don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been but yeah, totally lifestyle like wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you know, that kind of stuff. >> And so I think the mentality going out of it and and don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is.

But I want you to adapt the mentality of

what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder.

Right? >> Ding ding ding. You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like it's not, you know, cuz the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough.

>> What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore, I must and then you go to all these debt sources. But you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family.

>> Yeah. >> So, Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling? The negative emotions attached to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today and you said, "How do I keep from doing this again?" What is the most negative emotion? Describe it.

>> Uh, well, I would say it's uh like massive amounts of shame because I was in a good position and I've made good money for a lot of years.

>> Um, and I'm back to making good money now. And it was a lot of shame to like

look at the finances. I knew they were getting out of hand, but I literally like every time I think to open up the banking app or do my budget, my immediate thing is like, "Oh, don't do that, man." Like >> you you're just looking looking your failure in the face, right? So that would have been how it got out of hand for sure. >> How much stress?

How much pressure do you feel? >> Oh, lots. Like especially now looking at my new twomonth-old baby and like thinking like cuz I'm the sole income earnner in our family. uh my thankfully my job allows for that.

>> What if I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's fantastical question, but how would you feel? How would you feel? >> Um I I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure, if I'm not carrying that baggage around. Right.

>> Okay. So my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to in these moments on a daily b on

daily basis remind yourself how awful this feels.

>> Mhm. >> And I don't ever want to feel that again. Like that to me if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight, somebody who beats some type of an addiction and I've been able to interview people like this. I know people my personal life.

if you trace their story of when they recovery, you know, we've heard Dave say this for years on this show and on stage is the I had it moment. You know, you've talked about that. You talked about it earlier in the show today. >> I think you have to bottle this emotion >> not to stay with it and uh I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful.

But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again.

back in this again. You can get out of it. You've done it before. You're going to do it this time. But to never get back in, he goes, I don't ever want to feel that again. And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up.

Walk the baby steps. You can do this.

Throw off that code of shame. You're not a dead beat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man.

>> You made a bad financial decision.

Welcome to the club, pal. You're going to be okay.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[music]

>> All right. All right. Can you know when I when we hear calls like that one where people are dealing with >> guilt and shame it it kind of >> it is important to know the difference right when we when we feel guilt with our money it's generally uh kind of like that second stage of buyer's remorse or remorse where we're like man I wish I hadn't have done that you know and it feels guilty especially if it's affecting our loved ones it's not just us now our kids are affected now our spouse is affected that's really where we feel a large amount of guilt but when it crosses that barrier, Ken, of it's not just this thing I did, but now I am the mistake and I'm wearing that mistake as an identity.

That's when we get into shame.

tough because if you're wearing that identity, I am the mistake. I'm the reason we're not getting ahead. I'm the reason that our finances are bad. Then yeah, going forward, how could you trust yourself?

Because in your mind, you've personified yourself as a failure. It would be very hard to trust your decisions going forward. And so these are the types of things I talk about in my new book that's out now. That's >> right.

>> You know, it's story story. By the way, >> story story story. What no one tells you about money is is just the sort of thing. No one tells you that there is such an emotional struggle going through because with that last caller, he understands the baby steps.

He's done it before. He knows that yeah, you got a list of debt smallest to largest, but what's blocking him is his emotion. And what's blocking him is the shame and the guilt that he's feeling over past mistakes. And he's just the sort of person who needs what no one tells you about money cuz I actually walk people through how to get past that.

That was something that Sam and I dealt with uh during our money battle. Um I know for Sam there was a lot of shame because most of the student loans came from his end of the equation.

can't get ahead. >> Yeah. >> And >> you know that aggression can't stand. You have to learn how to forgive yourself and walk through that because until you forgive yourself, you really cannot go forward. >> And I'm glad you mentioned it. Uh we're so excited. Uh Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is now available for pre-sale. And I love this.

We were talking about this earlier. Uh this is not, you know, just some another money book. This is real stories from her journey. She and her husband Sam paid off overund $500,000 worth of debt.

And she focuses on the emotional side of money. >> That's the idea. What no one tells you about money is what?

>> That it's really really tough emotionally. Even though we give you a tried andrue process of the baby steps, that does not mean that you aren't going to have those rough days where you want to quit, where you feel frustrated like you can't ever get there. It works for everybody else, Dave, but I ain't it ain't working for me, Jay.

>> The plan's only 50% of the equation. I

mean then the the logic we can all look at the baby steps and go yeah that's logical that makes sense feels practical but when you start doing it Ken is a whole different story. You get way laid by a whole slew of things that you might be feeling whether it's frustration whether you're angry at the system or your mom and dad or whether you're like the last caller you're feeling a lot of guilt and shame or maybe you're just caught up in like self-pity. Woe is me.

I got to tell you, if I if that was me and I wanted to be coached up by somebody who'd actually walk the walk and doesn't just talk the talk, it'd be Jay. Could you imagine Jade training you? Could you imagine?

>> She runs marathons. I mean, look at the guns on the book cover. If you're not watching the show today, uh, you got to go to ramiesolutions.com/store.

You can see she's got the guns out, folks. Did you do push-ups before that photo shoot? >> I ran I ran a marathon before that photo shoot. I was in I was in tip-top shape, kid. I got to tell you, still am. My next book cover, I might go sleeveless.

We'll see how that goes. I don't know.

>> I'll let you borrow the tank top, Ken.

>> That probably look good. Probably >> your belly button's going to be showing.

>> That's not a good look for [laughter] middle-aged guys. Not a good look.

Nobody wants to see that. But hey, if you want to get the book, ramiesolutions.com/store.

Pre-order now. Pre-order and you get

$100 plus in free bonus items. And you

want to get it now. It's the best deal in the book. 24. I'm doing a book 999.

You're doing if you pre-order, you get a free slot in my book club. It's three weeks and we're going through it chapter by chapter. So, >> can I can I get a uh friend uh connection on this? >> Uh >> or do I have to do do I have to buy your book or can I get a friend uh spot in the book? >> No. Can you buy the book? Come on.

That's just you being a good friend.

>> That's a good point. You know, >> I just exposed myself as being you know what's going on. I'm starting to act like George. That's a question George would ask cuz he doesn't want to spend any money.

What am I doing? I'm better than that. >> Let me tell you what I'm doing. I'll get it.

I'll get it. >> I I I'm pre-ordering. I'm buying a copy of my own book today because yes, that I have that's part of it.

>> All right. Well, I'm very excited for you. And you're going to you're going to get some free bonus items. I wanted to tell you that. >> That's right. Yeah. Big one.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Great book, by the way. There's no money book like this on the planet. I >> It doesn't exist. I looked. >> Go get it. Yes, you did. Brett is up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Brett, how can we help?

>> Hey, I got a um a pretty difficult decision to make here in the next 24 hours or so. So, I was hoping to get some advice on what I should do.

>> All right. >> So, Wednesday, um our team, everybody on our team was told that our team was being eliminated and everybody was being laid off. >> Oh my. effective today, but um they've come back with a two seventh options and I'm having a tough time picking between the two. >> Okay, give us number one.

>> The number one is I remain on the company payroll for 60 days. I get my normal check. I I have health insurance.

You know, my all the deductions are normal. Everything stays the same. I just don't have any work responsibilities. >> Okay. The the catch to that is that if I

become employed anytime during that 60 days um it stops.

>> Okay. >> So I have to let I have to let them know and any further benefits you know or pay will cease. >> So the the other option is they'll give me 45 days um of salary and the

separation is effective immediately.

like when the when the money is deposited for the lump sum that ends the relationship and so there's no health insurance or no further >> got it >> benefits whatsoever. So, one is all at once and the other one is over the course of the 60 days.

>> Correct. >> How does the for the 45 days, how does that work with insurance? Cuz that has to play out over time.

>> Um days. Yeah, I asked about that. The insurance stops um you know, pretty much the day the lump sum is deposited in my account. >> So, no insurance. >> I think that's a no-brainer for me.

>> Okay. >> Which way are you leaning? I'm leaning towards the 60 days because my thought is for if if you wanted to if you let's

pretend you got a a you know you start looking for a job immediately and let's pretend in the next 2 to 3 weeks you land something you could easily say here's my start date that I'd like to start if you felt like your previous job

was paying more or there was something beneficial that you were getting from having that additional 60 days play out or let's say you land a job in the three weeks, you get paid more, the benefits are better. Who cares if this has to turn off? You're in a new job now.

>> Yeah, I that's the question I have. And this may be an unfair question, and if it is, just say, "Ken, I don't know." And I get it. Do you have any sense

>> uh of your ability to land somewhere else fairly quickly?

>> Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I just >> What do you do? It's I'm an IT project manager. >> Okay. Um, given that you got to make a

decision pretty quick. I'm with Jade.

I'm leaning towards option one because that gives you 60 days is normal. Gives you two months where life is normal.

It's already awful enough what you've experienced. >> And I want to point this out so that you

sit with this. We know from psychology studies that losing a job, even being laid off where you didn't do anything wrong, you're part of a massive deal.

Um, it is the same emotional equivalent as losing a loved one.

So you need to to grieve this and know that this is hard. And for that reason, I think I'm going to take the 60 days. I know I got two months more of normaly in the midst of a lot of grief and confusion and fear and all the stress, right? >> And if I get another job and it stops, that's fine because we're talking about a band-aid situation at most.

>> Uh so I'm with Jade on that. I think I'd take stability, but I would act as though you got nothing coming in.

>> That's right. starting tomorrow.

>> Actually, starting today, >> you know what I mean? Like, I tell the whole world, I just got laid off.

There's no shame in that game, by the way. That happens all the time. >> And what's to say, you don't get something better, you know? >> Yeah. So, I'd act as though nothing's coming in starting now.

>> And, uh, I think that's what I would do.

>> But, uh, so sorry, but you're going to be okay. But, I'm going to tell you something. Here's what let me let me and I'm not saying this is you, but I've coached thousands of people uh in my time here at Ramsey on this particular issue. And there is this temptation to

feel so bad for yourself that you just get stuck in this rut of, well, nothing's really working. No, I mean, you act as if you are starving and

you're thrown out on the street.

>> That's the response.

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>> That's right. Today's question comes from Kelly in Colorado. She says, "My debt, my only debt is $16,000 on a car

loan and then I have about $16,000 in

savings. So, I have my emergency fund built up. The only thing is I'm scared to death to pay off this car loan because my husband and I would like to potentially look into buying a home. I'm truly scared that if we were to do something like that, something else would pop up. I don't know if I should build up a little bit more money and then tackle it or do it now. Okay. So,

first, Kelly, let's just I'll give you both sides of it. Let's talk about the baby steps side of it and then we'll talk about the emotional side. So, um, Kelly, the baby steps would tell you that if you have debt, you're in baby step two. All right, you've got, you know, baby step one, obviously you put $1,000 aside.

You got that. You got $16,000. But the baby steps say you're supposed to take everything else aside from the,000 and put it on the car and pay it off.

Um, and then after that, yeah, you would save up three to six months. And then and only then, Kelly, would you then start to save up for your down payment for this house. Now, that's a timeline.

That's this is not going to happen overnight, right? This is going to be something that's going to take an extended period of time. So, that's when we start getting into the emotional side of this. Whereas Ken and I, we could just tell you, Kelly, here's the steps.

Do it. But the truth is, you're going to feel some emotion around that. Number one, you're going to feel the fear of getting rid of your savings because that is a security blanket to you. You feel that at night.

You probably check your bank account balance just to make sure it's still there, right? It feels good to have $16,000 off to the side. Then there's the part of, "Oh my gosh, Jade, you're telling me that I have to do all of those other things before I buy this house.

that." And so there's a little bit of um an emotional pill to swallow there when you realize, wait a second, the thing I thought I was going to maybe be able to do in the next 12 months is actually maybe going to take me closer to 48 months or possibly even longer. So I just want to take a moment and validate that that is absolutely real.

>> And there's part of this where we're

asking you, Kelly, to do something that you've never done before and possibly never even seen done before. And there's a lot of fear in that unknown, Ken.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Speaking of things that have never been seen before. Earlier in the show, I was talking about how in a future book, um,

I might like to let me see your book.

And by the way, if you're watching, >> by the way, if you're in the lobby and you want to see something special, move back to that screen back there. You're about ready to see something really special. This is Jade's uh new book. Of course, we've been talking about it, What No One Tells You About Money. And I was talking to her earlier about, look at her guns. and uh you know she's been

working out, training for a marathon, all the things. And then I said maybe my next book, when has it become socially acceptable for a guy to wear a sleeveless shirt on something, you know, formal? Okay. >> And so James Childs, being the genius that he is, and the crack team back there behind the glass, uh went to Chat GPT and put me in your tank top on your

new book cover. Let's show the audience.

>> Oh, Ken, >> there it is, folks. I mean, look at

those guns. >> You listen, the guns ARE THE GUNS ARE OUT. THAT'S >> FACE FACE is a little warped, but the uh the left arm looks a little stronger.

>> You have you have a strange way of of showing your excitement for my book, Ken. >> The teeth look fantastic.

>> Your teeth looked great. >> Uh so, it's just fascinating uh how

socially acceptable it is for women to

be sleeveless and and you all look lovely. We see it all the time, TV, >> uh, out at out in the town. But a guy a

guy goes sleeveless >> and you either look like a wannabe or a try too hard. Yeah. >> Or white trash.

>> Listen. >> So there you go. >> It's It's, you know, >> I don't know why that is. >> Well, >> so anyway, I'm sending that to Dave to see what he thinks about a future book uh cover. See what he thinks about that.

>> I'm pretty sure the answer is >> hard pass. Hard pass. You sent that picture to Sam, your husband, and his reply was hilarious. What did he say?

>> He was like, "This is deeply disturbing." [laughter] >> So, good stuff. >> You need to keep those weapons concealed. >> They're going to stay concealed, folks. [laughter] They're These babies are dangerous in all 50 states. >> Listen, I don't I don't want to say I think that picture might have done you a few favors, King Coleman. >> I'm happily married. Happily married. Uh Elliot is up in Idaho. Elliot, how can

we help?

Um, so me and my wife just found out we

were pregnant like three weeks ago.

>> Congratulations.

>> Thanks. And I'm trying to figure out how much we need to save up in the nine

months to be able to pay for it all

outright. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, tell me where you are in

the baby steps. Is there debt? Is there not debt? Tell me where you're at. >> Yeah. We have a car payment of 5,100 and

that is about it.

>> Wow. 5,100 for the car payment.

>> Yeah. No, no, you mean the >> total amount? >> Yeah, total. That was the total amount of what we have left. >> Got you. Got you. >> Yeah. The way you said that, uh, America just all did a collective gas.

>> I know. That's right. And that's it? Just the car? >> Yeah, just the car. >> Okay. What do you guys earn?

>> Um, combined a little less than 60,000.

>> Okay, good. So yeah, during this time, we kind of call this uh uh stork mode, which is basically you're pausing any real financial uh traction that you're

making to save up. Every dime that you have, you're saving that up so that when this baby comes just in case if you need the money, it's there. Now, um obviously

I hope that everything goes off without a hitch. But it is nice to have that money there because many times you do hit the deductible and it's nice to at least at the very least have that insurance deductible there so that you know you're not having to come out of pocket last minute for that. Do you know what yours is?

>> Um I believe deductible is 2500.

>> Okay. And is that the same as your out-of- pocket max for the year?

>> Um out of pocket is 6,500.

>> 6500. So, if I were you, that'd probably

be somewhere in between those two numbers would be my goal over the next 9 months to save up. Um, and then the good news is it, let's say you save up the whole 6,500. The good news is once the baby's born, everything's good. Mom's home, baby's home. Uh, you can take that whole amount, throw it towards the car, pay it off just like that, and you got a little something something to start your three to six months on it off on the right track.

>> Okay. >> Make sense? >> Yeah.

Good. Good. Let that sink in.

>> All right. There you go. All right. Let's talk about the emotions. Okay.

>> Nice segue, Ken. Just >> slap it right in there. >> Let's go. Let's talk about the emotions of >> bringing a child into the world.

>> Oh, Lord. >> You're in the baby steps, right? And this was a very specific question, but just in general, >> it's been a while, right? But I'm thinking back. I know you've done it.

You know, there's something happens. And how do we manage that natural fear of, oh my gosh, I now have to take care of somebody more than just me and my wife?

Because I remember Stacey and I, it's like I never felt like, okay, I've got to take care of Stacey because she was working and I was working. Now, I know, you know, obviously we're married, but it's like we were both working, double income, >> no kids, and the moment when a child comes in, I know as a dude, >> I feel like the provider muscle starts to flare a little bit more. Mhm.

>> Uh so a what you think the common emotion is and b how do we make sure we don't overreact and stay calm?

>> I think obviously depending on the person it's going to be different. I know for me I can speak from my personal opinion uh and just personal experience.

For me it was kind of twofold. The idea of bringing a child into the world and then we had this half a million dollars of debt. For me, it was a wake-up call

uh of I am in a I am in a current state

of struggle and financial trauma. I was

like, I can't bring a child into this. I have to get my act together, Sam. We have to get our act together. We've got to create stability. So, for us, it was like a lighting a fire under our butt.

And then there's also kind of the historical framework. So, you think

about what was money like when you were a child? How did you feel? Did you feel like it was a scarcity mentality? Did you feel like it was abundant? Did you feel And all of that plays into the moment when you find out we're pregnant.

>> Yeah. >> And if you're not careful, it can freeze you dead in your tracks. Or you can take that and it can be just the catalyst that you need to get you moving in in the right direction, possibly for the first time ever. And so that's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about and [music] what no one tells you about money. How to convert those emotions into fuel to actually help you win.

>> [music]

[music]

>> This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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[music]

Uh Jake, you know this. I got to tell everybody else. The all new Every Dollar is here. Hey, >> and uh it's more than just a world-class budgeting app. Okay. So, when we say that, >> yeah, >> I mean, we there's a bunch of advanced features, all the things. But I I think what's really cool is is the real time help. >> That's right. That's right. >> Talk about that. You're in the weeds.

>> Oo, real time. I think the best thing is Yeah. the coaching, the coaching aspect.

Not only does it create a plan that's customized for you, but we also have coaching. There's free one-on-one coaching that you can get involved in.

Uh there's group coaching that you can get involved in. We do webinars once a month so you can get help from real people. Yes, there's the digital component, but there's also the human component. And I think that's the best of both worlds, baby. >> Get every dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. And it really is fantastic. I mean, the way I like to describe it is if you've ever been familiar or been a part of or led Financial Peace University, imagine that digital on steroids to the nines.

>> It's like having a person one of the personalities in your pocket like having Ken or I Ken in your right side pocket, Jade in your left side pocket. Scary.

>> I I was getting ready to say I thought everything was good until that. I [laughter] think now everybody ran for the hills when you told them I might be in their pocket. We'll let that one go.

Trevor's up in Sou Falls, South Dakota.

I've been there before. You ever been to Sou Falls? >> I have not. >> It's gorgeous. Falls run right through the town. Trevor is there. Trevor, how can we help?

>> Hi guys. I'm uh my father-in-law wants

to gift me his portion of a family business and I don't know that I want to be partners with the rest of his family without him involved. Um I don't want to be unappreciative, but I'm >> sure. So don't do it.

Do you already work in the family business? >> So I I manage it.

>> Okay. And how long have you been part of it? >> Uh this is my fourth year.

>> Oh boy. >> And what's his stake? What what percentage is he offering you?

>> He has 25% of it.

>> Who are who are the other family members once he's out?

>> His parents and his brother.

>> And you work with these folks for four years.

>> Yeah. you've been behind the curtain and

you don't want it.

>> Um, I mean, ideally at some point I'd own the whole thing, but I don't know that I want to be involved as partners,

>> right? And and and you know your reasons. >> Yeah. >> And because it's family, I'm not going to ask you to list them because you're calling in at a show. But I I guess my point is that's everything I need to know because you it'd be one thing if

>> if you called and you didn't work in the business and maybe you were just adjacent and you just knew very little.

I think I'd be the one that would go, you know what I would do? I would at least go kick the tires, ask a lot of questions. But the fact that you've been running the business for four years tells me you have enough evidence and I

don't even need to know your reasons why. And I think in this case, you got to honor your gut. Does that >> It does. >> You got any head checks on that? >> It does. I I do have more questions just based on two things you said. Number one is you said, "I wouldn't want to be in there in it without him." So, I wondered, what is it about your father-in-law that you feel like that brings kind of like stability to the chaos?

>> Um, well, I know he's got my best interest in mind. Um, >> and um, he's able to to kind of push things

like if we need to make a change of something, he's kind of able to kind of get it pushed past his family, I guess.

>> So, he's kind of an ally. He's an ally and he kind of knows how to navigate the BS. >> What position is he in right now

or has he been in?

He's recently retired, so he's gotten more involved. Um, but he just kind of

helps with the day-to-day stuff as far as just >> Okay. But I guess my point is, so your your position is what? What's your title? >> So, I'm the I'm the manager. Um,

so I'm kind of in charge of everything, I guess. >> Okay. Who's above you? Who do you report to?

Um, basically I report to my father-in-law. Yeah, >> but father-in-law is out. Once >> he's gone, who do you report? >> Who does he who does he report to? If he helps get things pushed through, it implies that there's somebody above him.

Who is that?

>> Well, his parents own 50% of it. So, I guess they would be the >> Okay, that's 50. He's offering you 25.

Where's the other 25? >> The brother. >> His brother. >> Uh, is he involved in the business?

Yeah, he used to be the manager before I got involved. >> So, two other questions then. First question is the parents, they've got to be aging, right? Yeah.

>> So, what happens to their cut when they leave and when are they leaving?

>> It's supposed to be split between >> my father-in-law and his brother.

>> So, you would get another 25%. So, essentially at the end of the day, it'd be you owning 50% and your brother and the brother owning 50%. Is that right?

Yeah. >> Okay. Then my next question is, what's the business worth?

>> Um, it's probably over a million dollars.

>> Huh. I was hoping for more. Okay.

>> Are you Do you have a Um Well, I Okay, I

have two quick questions. one is it part

of your plan to if I say no now and I

just keep doing a good job running the business that once um grandparents are

gone and uncle and father-in-law are in

charge and once they age out that you just inherit it all at that point you go sure I want it then but only then is that where your head is at or do you have another play outside of this [snorts] >> um

Yeah. I mean that's >> Yeah. What? >> His parents if his parents weren't involved and

>> your the uncle >> Uhhuh. >> and the uncle Yeah. I guess that would be >> right. But that's a long time from now at at best.

>> Um I mean his parents are in their 80s.

>> No, I know. But we got to go through another layer. But >> did you mention this to your father-in-law that you you would do it if he were involved? But have you told him this is my question.

>> I've I've kind of it's been I mean we've been talking about this a little bit so I've kind of brought it up that I don't really want to be involved without him.

>> And is there pressure from him for you to stay involved or does he go totally get it young man? I appreciate that.

>> Um yeah a little bit.

>> I I gave you two. I need you to tell me >> business continue but he doesn't he's he

doesn't want to have to I think he's getting kind of sick of dealing with his family and >> yeah but I mean is he pressuring you to stay in it or is he saying if you don't want it that's totally fine. That's what I'm asking. A or B?

>> He's not really pressuring me but I I mean he knows that I want to be in this

long term I guess. >> So you do want to stay in the business long term? >> I do. Yeah.

I just >> Is there a world where longer since >> is there. Okay, so parents, they're getting older. You got to I got to believe they're going to age out of this in the next 5 to 10 years. Is there a world you said they're 80 in their 80s now?

>> Yeah, >> maybe even sooner. I mean, I only you know that, but is there a world where once the parents come out and you're 50/50 with the brother-in-law, is there a world where you could then buy the brother-in-law out financially?

I'm not really a financial position to do that. No. >> Got it. >> And are you okay working with the uncle?

>> No. >> I prefer not [laughter] to. No. >> There you go. >> Okay. So, I got to tell you something. I don't think this is worth the wait for you because it feels like the uncle's going to be in charge for a good while.

Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay then. How old are you?

>> Uh 30. >> Okay. You know what? I think now this is I'm not telling you to do this, but this is under the this is what Ken would do.

I'm not saying this is what you should do, okay? What I would do is I would tell everybody. >> You've already told father-in-law, I'd tell uncle-in-law, I'd tell grandma, granddaddy, whatever you call them, >> I love you guys.

Um, I'm going to go out. I'm going to go a different path. >> What about >> I'm out. And here's why.

Once you go do your own thing, and the reason I'm telling you to go do your own thing, whatever that is, you go work for somebody else, you go whatever, you just leave the business because you don't want to work with these people, you've already determined that. And you certainly don't want to wait as long as it's going to take for you to get the chance to run it. So, go do your own thing. And here's what's going to happen.

At some point, when uncle's ready, >> he's got to figure out what he's going to do. And you're probably the best candidate anyway. And so, you're a young man. You're 30, I believe you said.

I would go another direction and let it come back to me. I know Jade's got something here. >> I I'm with that. I I agree with Ken.

I would not stick in it. Um I have nothing more to add to this. >> Yeah, I mean, go west, young man.

So, that means there's a far better one somewhere else, and I'd take it.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside Colleen is up in Calgary, Alberta. And

let's go to Colleen. Colleen, how are you doing today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's up? >> Um, so my question is, I've been listening for a couple months and there's just it must be a basic question, but I can't wrap my head around it. So, my husband and I, we use our credit cards basically for everything. Um, but we do pay it off every month. Since we've never carried a balance, I'm really interested in switching to cash only. And my question

is, how do you do that so that you'd actually have money left over that you could last the rest of the month to then switch to cash?

>> Yeah. So, you're kind of um you're a month behind essentially because >> just the sole way that they work, you're always like kind of a month paying a month late. >> Yeah. So, the best way to do this is to

to do the budget first. Like, let's do a budget first and let's get a in our mind what we honestly need for a month. Not going over, not depending on a, you know, a line of credit. Just what does it take for our household to run realistically? Have you done that yet?

>> Uh, no, we haven't. I've been on my husband to get started with that, though. >> Yeah. So, okay. Before we get off the call, we'll make sure that Christian gives you uh the allnew every dollar so that you guys tonight can make that first budget because then you're going to have a starting place of knowing, okay, we need $5,000 a month or we need $6,000, whatever that is. And then from there, I want to ask, do you happen to have any money saved?

>> Yeah, we do. Like we could pay it off with our sav like we have a savings, we could pay it off. >> So, what's on the credit card now?

>> Wondering in general.

Yeah, we could do that for sure.

>> So, what's Tell me real numbers. What's on the credit card now? And how much do you have saved?

>> Oh, well, we have probably at least like

30,000 in a savings account that we could just pay it off.

>> And how much is on the card?

>> Oh, probably our cards right now are only maybe like five grand.

>> Okay, great. >> Like we could we could pay it. I was just not maybe wanting to take it from there and pay it off and instead just make that switch. >> Well, I'm going to I'm going to repeat repeat back what you wanted to do, which is you told me that you wanted to stop

using the credit cards for monthly payments and just use your money and then you agreed with me that you're essentially a month behind because that's the way credit cards work. So, the only way to get in front of it is to

pay off the existing debt. Well, the first step I told you is to make a budget. So you know how much money you even need for the next monthtomonth budget. Then the second step is now we have to get even. We have to get to zero because we have to pay off the debt.

>> So that's the next thing. You're going to reach over from that 30,000.

>> Pay off the debt and then you're going to be at ground zero. And then now you have the budget going into the month of November and you say, "Okay, here's our budget. Now we just use our money that

we're going to get paid." That's how this works. Now, we can get into the gears of how to set a budget if if you want to do that, but that's the first three steps to accomplish what you said you wanted to do.

>> Mhm. Yeah. No, I have no doubt that we could live off of like our income and what we make. So, I guess it is just a matter of getting it paid off so that we're at kind of >> starting point with no like no debt with

credit card and then just go from there with the budget. >> Now, if you have I don't know what your income is. what's your income? Cuz if you can cash flow both, I'm fine with that. If you're like, "Hey, Jade, I actually make enough this month that I could pay off the credit card and have enough to float November's budget," that'd be pretty awesome, too. What do you make?

>> Uh, so yearly combined with my husband, we're probably around 190.

>> Okay. What does that break down every month? What is What do you actually bring home?

>> Uh,

this is why we need the budget.

[laughter] >> Yeah. I'm trying to think. Probably

like 10 to 12,000.

>> Okay. So, there could >> there could be a world where you can cash flow most of this and and dip into savings very little. I'm just not sure because I haven't seen your budget. There could be things that are >> stopping you from it.

>> Yeah, for sure. That makes sense. And I think >> the answer is super easy, right? I mean, she listen, Jade gave you the tactical stuff, but again, I'm going to tell you something. You're going to have to realize that you're making a major change from being responsible. I think you're responsible. You're obviously responsible. >> Okay. >> But there's a difference, Jade, between being responsible and being strategic.

>> That's right. >> And strategy is what we teach. And and and so the idea here is that when you know what's in your budget and you know where the money's going and you're telling the money what to do and it's doing something for you now you're so much further ahead. So it's just a simple do exactly what she said but then to get to the next level of we're not just using credit cards is some loosey goosey backup and we get these benefits.

We're actually being strategic to win with our money. That's a big difference.

>> I agree. So are you going to do it?

>> Yeah. Yeah, just Oh, yeah. I'm 100% on

board. And I do think it'll make us a lot more conscious of what we're spending our money on instead of just like swipe the card and >> pay for whatever. >> That's right. And let me Yeah, I was going to say, let me give you just a little nuts and bolts thing on the budget. Um I don't know when you get paid, but most people get paid twice a month. >> Usually like on the the the 15th and the 30th, right? It's kind of >> Yeah, that's his and I'm bi-weekly.

>> Okay. So, just a little nuts and bolts thing. Generally, when you're getting on a budget for the first time, the check from the 30th is going to go towards the

next month. So, for instance, if you got paid yesterday, that tech tech that

check technically should go towards November. So, your paychecks that you're

budgeting for for the current month are from the 30th of the previous month. So the 30th of October will go for your October budget or for your November budget >> and your November 15th paycheck will be on your November budget. Does that make sense?

>> Yep. Yeah, it does. So instead, we're just kind of paying for things before instead of after. >> Yes. That way you always have the money Uhhuh. to pay for what you need all 30 days of the month. Because if you let that October 30th check go for October,

well, the month's already over. Everything's going to be late. So that's just a little tip. A lot of people get hung up on that.

>> Okay, awesome. No, that sounds really good. >> All right, thank you for the call, Colleen. Yeah, there there's a lot of people. We get this question a lot and it's always fun from for people if I'll meet somebody and then they find out I work at Ramsay Solutions and they'll be like, "Okay, hey, so okay, by the way,

it always drops down." >> Yeah. >> Do you know what I'm talking about? >> Yeah. It's not a secret. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, let me let me just let me let me just ask like what's what's the problem with just, you know, we pay everything [laughter] and we pay it off, you know, and and it's it's really fun how that happens. But again, our it's it's it's less about I think sometimes we get painted with this brush here at Ramsey Solutions that we're just anti- everything >> and we're not, >> right? >> You know what I mean? It's it's we're for your money winning.

>> Yes. And we want you to feel good about it. We want you to feel like you're in the one in control. We don't want you to do the things that we teach because Jaden Kin said so. >> Yeah. >> We want you to do it because it makes sense to you. You like the idea of peace. You like the idea of freedom and being in control of your money and in your with your emotions as well.

>> Yeah. It's it's it is always funny to me when somebody goes, "Okay, I think I get it." And by the way, this call is a great example, by the way, of realizing, "Oh, this isn't just anti-credit.

There's a bigger strategy at play." And she's beginning to see it. And the light bulb goes off there as she says, "Yes, >> I can see how this is going to help us when we know where our money is and we're going to be even more strategic, more responsible." Yes, >> cash does that. >> And I liked her call because I actually talk about that in the book, What No One Tells You About Money.

>> And it's juicy. It's juicy. Let me tell you, I'm telling you the raw and the real. I don't hold back. >> All right. [music]

All right, let's talk insurance real quick. Everybody needs it. Uh, but you may not need as much as you think or you may have too much. Uh, and you need to find somebody who's a pro. Not somebody that's looking to make a buck off of you, but people who know their stuff and want to take care of you. And you can do that with a Ramsay trusted insurance pro. You're not going to have to deal with all the sleazy, slimy sales crap.

uh and and know that we vetted these folks to make sure that they're market experts who are going to take care of you. Ramseyolutions.com/coverage is where you go. Ramseyolutions.com.

Let's go to Matt in Charleston, South Carolina. Matt, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are y'all doing today? >> We're doing great. What's going on?

>> So, uh recently came into uh some lottery money. Um >> Whoa. Whoa. Let's not just let's not roll right by that. How much did we win, sir? >> Uh, so we won right at 200 after taxes.

Um, it was 350 and they took >> 200 is what you take home.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Wow. Was that state lottery?

>> Yeah, it was a state um kind of a second chance thing they do.

>> Wow. >> That's something. Okay. >> You know what? I've never had anybody on the show. Can I ask one quick followup?

I've never taken a lottery call on this show. Uh, was this a random I'm in the

grocery store or I'm at the gas station and I see the ticker and I go I'm going to shoot my shot or is this Are you like a guy who played it all the time?

>> Well, I was a guy that played it all the time when this when this kind of happened. Um, I since stopped playing, but I said it was a [laughter] second chance. So, you scan a ticket and they

put your name in a hat for a second chance and they luckily drew my name.

>> Wow, that's so funny.

>> Okay. All right. to the reason you called. What What's your question?

>> All right. So, um prior to this, I was very uh not financially savvy. Like I was um credit card debt, student debt, um personal loans. >> Essentially, [clears throat] I was working week to week and going down to zero or sometimes negative in my account. >> Um so, with this, my plan is to go ahead pay off all of my debt, which is about $30,000.

um and potentially put a down payment on a house. Um my wife's car just broke

down, so potentially get her a new car.

But what I don't want to do is mess it up and get back to where I was a month ago, week to week, um getting down to [clears throat] zero in my account.

>> Well, let's talk about that first. Let's talk about that because you got Jade here to walk you through this. describe for her what you think was the cause of

you being uh weak to weak never having

enough there because that wasn't that long ago. >> So presumably we haven't solved what was going on. So describe what you think is the source of that.

>> Um I think

I think I got credit cards in the mail and I was like okay I can use those and I just started overspending and not paying attention to my spending.

>> Okay. Um, >> and then, you know, I had other debts that I just kind of just kept ping on. I just was not being responsible. >> Understood. What What's your income?

>> Uh, I make about 105 a year.

>> Okay. >> So, it's not like you're scrapping.

>> And is it just you or is there a wife, kids, anything?

>> Um, I just married my wife um two weeks ago and we have three kids.

>> Three kids. Okay. And does she work outside the house?

>> Yeah, she does work. >> What's she make?

um roughly 40

have been separate but >> okay but they're coming together um I think the key here is you've got to look

at what you're bringing home every single month you've got to look at what

you have to spend what's your margin and you've got to just give every dollar an assignment and then that's the practical part but then the emotional part of actually sticking to it Ken is what's going to be your struggle because if you set out and say Hey, we're only spending

$150 on restaurants.

And you write that on paper. Now, it's your chance to say, am I going to be the person that keeps the promises to myself or I'm going to am I going to be a person that flakes out every single time? Am I going to be a person that I can depend on that I I can depend on me to say what I do, I what I say I'm going to do, I'm actually going to do. Or are you going to let your emotions lead you and go, "Well, I work hard.

>> Right. >> That's where the real battle starts. So,

I love that he asked the question because you know as much as Ken and I do know know that the $200,000 that is a a wonderful thing. You had some good luck, but that is not the solve of the problem. The solve of the problem is Matt deciding that he's going to be a guy who can look in the mirror and trust himself to do what he says he's going to do >> and have a process for doing it.

>> Yeah. In other words, if you say, "Hey, I want to get in shape, put on muscle,

cut up, or I want to put on 15 pounds of muscle, or I want to lose 50 pounds of weight." >> You've got to have a process. You can't just say, "I want it to happen and expect it to happen." Right? >> You got to have a process that is attached to a willingness to change.

>> And so, I'm going to start with the budget for you. You didn't know what was going on with any of your money. So, let's take care of the man. Let's get him uh let's get him in every dollar. >> Let's get him in every dollar. And uh I think you need to give him give him a what does he do tonight with every dollar to to change this around.

>> Yep. Tonight you sit down with your wife and you put all the numbers and you're going to put in what you guys earn. You're going to pull up the HR website.

You're going to look at your check stubs after taxes. That's the number that you're going to put into the budget.

Then you're going to go back and you're going to look at all your bank statements and you're going to put accurate numbers for, okay, we already know, yes, this is our cell phone payment, utilities, we know our mortgage or our rent payment, but what do we really spend on groceries? What do we really spend going out to eat? What do we really spend on gas? And you're going to plug those numbers in so you have an accurate picture of, okay, this is what it takes to run my lifestyle.

And then you're going to say, okay, honey, we've got this money that's enough to break us free. It's going to it's going to give us a get out of jail free card on this debt on the car and it's even going to help us get a down payment. But today we look ourselves in the eye and say but this is our real income 150,000 and this is what we get to live on and we have to be okay with that. We don't have to keep up with anybody else.

you guys, you have to kind of um,

you know, decide that you're both going to do that and that you're both going to hold each other accountable because trust and believe there's going to be temptations. Obviously, there's always another trip to take. There's always a better car to buy, right? There's always a nicer restaurant to eat at, but you have to be okay with what your lifestyle is.

So, don't squander this. And I I I don't think you will if you internalize what we're saying. >> Yep. Hang on the line.

We're going to get you started in every dollar. stay tuned into the show. Create some accountability to where you go, okay, I'm now living this.

>> And let's let's talk about that for a minute, Ken. Um, >> you talked about getting cut, working out, trying to get muscles, whatever the goal is, right? >> I'm trying to keep up with your book cover. Let's be honest.

[laughter] >> You were likening it to getting on a plan with your money. Yeah. And a lot of people forget that they've got to set themselves up for success, >> right? >> Because if you're trying to get ripped, do you want to know what you don't keep on the counter?

>> Chips. >> Oreos. >> Oreos. >> Halloween candy.

>> Oh, boy. >> I listen. I said that and there is a bowl of Halloween candy on my counter right now [laughter] at home.

>> Let me tell you something. >> I take a tax on whatever Mrs. Coleman has bought for the little ones that are coming by tonight. Mr. Coleman takes a tax. >> Chef's snack. That's a chef's neck.

>> I go through it all. I go, I'll have one of these. Thank you very much. But you know, uh, if I cheat >> tonight on some candy as I will.

>> Guess what? >> You got to pay for it later. >> I'll pay for it tomorrow.

>> Don't you pay for it. >> So, you a got to have a process. You know what you do? So, the first thing you do is I'm I'm playing along with you.

>> I'm going to go, "All right, uh, I'm going to eat better. >> So, I got to remove the junk, but I also got to put good stuff in my body." >> You got to put it there. >> And you got to have protein. You want to add muscle, you got to have x amount of grams of protein.

>> Yes, >> it is. Watch this. Instead of listening to everybody else who's broke, maybe I

buy Jade Warshaw's book, >> maybe I listen to the Ramsay show two or three times a week or every day. I'm going to put good money practices, good

money philosophy in as well. That's like putting protein in my body in order that the workout I get the maximum out of it.

>> I'm with you, Ken. I'm with you, Ken.

And make it easy. If I put healthy food in the refrigerator, I put it at eye level so I can just grab it. It's the first thing I see. And it's the same thing with this.

You need to be setting reminders in your phone to check your every dollar budget. You need to be doing the things that are right there at eye level. Put the podcast. Let that be the first podcast that pops up.

>> Set yourself up to succeed with money so that when the time comes, it's an easy choice. It's right there in front of you. >> You keep preaching like that. I might do an altar call, have a baptismal service right in the studio. By the way, I have

gone out to eat with this one and her husband and she orders the cleanest stuff. Ain't no fun, folks.

>> I try

[music]

[music]

All right, let's go to Megan in Spokane, Washington. Megan, how can we help today? >> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's up? Um, I was I'm calling because I'm a single mom and I'm in baby step 3B and so I'm currently only saving up to my match in my retirement, but I live in

a really expensive area. Um, and you

know, like don't want to move really because the like it helps to have a lot

of community when you're trying to raise a kid on your own. So, like >> I'm trying to figure out um if I were

like >> if I were to really realistically try to buy a house under like the Ramsy guidelines, I would probably need like a $200,000 down payment.

>> Uhhuh. Yes. >> Um with my current income and that would take me like I'm saving very aggressively. I have a really good living situation right now, but it would take me still probably over five years to do that. Mhm. >> So, I'm kind of wondering like it seems too long to pause my retirement. Um, but then I'm going to be even saving longer >> if I wait if I don't pause retirement.

So, yeah. Just kind of wondering what your guys' thoughts are about that. Like if it would be smarter to pause my retirement and maybe just save what I can and give up >> having a house or like it feels like it would provide a lot of security to have a house. >> Um, you are correct. It does provide security to have a house. You do. I mean, that's the largest line item on your budget and to have that stabilized is very very it's a very very important part of security and wealth building.

So, you're exactly right. Um, you're also right on how uh tough it is to save

up a down payment because gone are the days where you can just say, "Oh, put 20% down and you know, now you're right at 25% of your takehome." That math is is different now. So, uh, in order to make the payment 25% of your take-home,

in many cases, you're putting down well above 20%. In some cases, you're putting like 50 and 60% down in order to make that happen. That's just the reality.

Totally. >> So, for for you, probably what I would do is I would go when you're in baby step 3B, you do have the opportunity.

you have the the choice to say, I'm either going to kind of split and I'm going to do some investing and some saving for the down payment, or you can say, I'm just going to go ham on the down payment um and get that done.

>> If I [clears throat] were in your shoes, I'd start there. I'd start on not investing. I'd start on everything going to the down payment. And then probably at the three-year mark is when I would say, "Okay, I have to start putting something into retirement." And I realize that's going to make me go slower, but hopefully by then there's some change that's happened. your income has gone up, maybe your um

>> uh life has changed in a way to where there's more income coming in.

>> Um but I want to if if you were here

right now, I'd be looking you dead in your eye and validating the fact that it is tough. It's it's a longer timeline than what people are used to >> and it is a lot more money that must be put down on the front end than what people are used to. But I would also tell you, um, if it makes you feel any better, for my husband and I, we had a 10y year. We had to wait 10 years to do our house.

>> Mostly for Wow. >> Yeah. For us, cuz we started out broke and we had to clean up debt. Uh, but time is time, right?

And >> the the biggest thing I can leave you with is when the day comes and you have the money and you put it down and you move in that house, it's all going to have been worth it. M >> Mhm. >> I'd like to ask >> Yeah.

Like that feels good to be like >> Yeah. And and I love I love that Jade

acknowledged how tough this is in the current situation. U and but I'm going to push a little bit because I think sometimes there's >> there's more than one way. And certainly waiting longer is fine. It stinks to

tell people that, but just because it [clears throat] takes longer doesn't mean that it's still not the best decision. and you've already got a good good living situation.

>> How much of a house are we talking about? How much how much are we looking how big is this house and what price?

>> I mean, I live in a tiny house right now, so I am definitely not looking for a big house. Like I'm living in a tiny house that I built >> and so I'm >> Oh, an actual tiny house.

>> Yeah. Like I built a tiny house when I was um like a long like five years ago.

So I'm living in that house now. And I would be very happy with just even putting my tiny house on a piece of property, >> but I'm just having a hard time >> finding a property that I could even put it there. >> Well, tell us though, but you've got >> not a huge house, >> right? But I just want to have some fun with the numbers for a minute. All right. So, what based on what you've told us, you've got a number in mind, correct? A price point.

>> Yeah. Well, the I'm thinking like the average houses in our area are between like >> like around $400,000. That's for like a pretty ch like a small, you know, house.

>> Yeah. Like how Okay. So, so there's nothing in the 300,000 or 250,000 range.

>> Not that I have seen recently, but that,

you know, it could fluctuate a little bit. Like I I think it could be possible like 350 could come up eventually. Um,

but that that's not like a very common.

>> How close do you have to be to where you work? What's that situation?

Well, uh, my daughter is in a school, so

it's more I work remotely, um, which is wonderful. So, um, I but my daughter goes to school every day, so I'm driving her I'm driving twice a day >> um to get her >> Where is your tiny house? Are you renting the land or the space?

>> I'm I um I'm renting the land basically.

Yeah. >> So, um, it's in Cocaala. I don't know if you >> No, I don't know where it is. I guess what I'm saying is is that if all I'm doing is encouraging you.

I'm not in any way, you know, tis tisk, you should be doing something different than you're doing, but I certainly will be looking at every opportunity to go, okay, if I could find something that's a little bit cheaper, that shortens my timeline, right? Because it's less I have to save and I'm now going to incrementally work my way up. And you're actually a prime candidate [clears throat] for that given the fact that you're in a tiny home. And I also think if I were you and you love the tiny home and you go, "Hey, if I could find land, I'd get really aggressive and looking for something like that because it might be a lot cheaper than a house." >> Yeah.

And I could always build a house on it later >> down the line. That's right.

>> Oh, so just there's also an opportunity to build to buy a house um that's cheaper because it's with a like group

that has a deed restriction. Um, and I'm

a little bit hesitant to do a deed restriction. It's like you basically don't own the land. You own the house and then you have to sell it like at a you can't sell it at market value. You have to sell it at like

don't do that. >> No. No. That never want to buy something that comes with all these restrictions.

Like I didn't buy anything. I signed up for some deal that has all these problems with >> and you're not desperate. >> That's right. >> That's the thing you got to remember.

You're not desperate, but you are a person who had a timeline and and you have a timeline that you want to make.

>> And the hardest part of all of this is readjusting expectations.

>> You know, that's that's the emotional aspect of this. You know the numbers. I don't think we have to go over that. You understand the benefit of the numbers,

but the hardest part is the part of you that's got to go, man, this is I'm I'm disappointed. This is not going to happen as quickly as I wanted it to.

>> Yeah. I am. You're right. I am disappointed and I'm a little scared if I'm being honest. >> Well, yeah. The the fear says, "What if I wait too long? What if I'm priced out of the market? What if I, you know, a lot can happen in the next 5 to six years?" So, there's a fear of the unknown that's there. Um, >> and you built your tiny home.

>> Yeah. >> Yourself.

>> Yes. Like with help obviously, but I was a Yeah, >> that's amazing. So, I'm I'm not trying to turn you into Joanna Gains, but I would also if you can find something that's not a death trap that doesn't end up costing you more money, but like with a little bit of love and tenderness, you know, and it's structurally sound. In other words, it's got good bones, >> you know, that might be a steal for you, too.

Uh especially being a single mom with one kid, you're used to living, you know, in some little thing that I'm sure looks amazing, by the way. Um, but [laughter] I just I guess my thing is is that when I'm in a situation like you're in and I know that there's a good long-term play and it's going to require patience, then I know, okay, that will win. The tortoise beats the hair every time. All right.

everything? Have I turned over every stone? You know what I mean? And I guess that's my only encouragement. Doesn't hurt. You're not going to do anything stupid. Uh, you've been very smart to this point. So, I'm not saying turn over every crazy stone. Like, I'm glad you brought up the one situation because that could be tempting.

>> No, don't do that where they're going to force you to sell and you don't own the dirt underneath your house. Like, that's not a stone we want to turn over. Or if we turn it over, we see a bug, we go, "Ooh." And we turn the stone back over, we run. >> So, that's one that you do there. But I would look at everything that you possibly can to see, can I progressively step into uh something because I'm making good financial decisions along the way. >> Yes.

[music]

Our

[music]

[music]

scripture of the day is Psalm 37:es 3-4.

Trust in the Lord and do good. Dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture. Take delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Our quote from Maya Angelo today. I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mid on both hands.

>> Oo, >> you need to be able to throw something back. >> I love that. I love that.

>> So fun. You know, we've had uh it's interesting. Uh we were just talking with James, our fearless producer. Been a lot of calls today where we've seen the emotional side of money.

>> Yes. talked about and you and I were talking about this uh earlier today.

There's so much fear.

>> Yes. >> That is involved in money decisions and you write about the emotional side of money in your new book. >> Yeah. >> Uh what no one tells you about money and that is the emotional side. How very

difficult it is to win with money and also process all of the range of emotions that come with money and its rhythm in life. >> That's right. We saw it in a couple of calls today. We saw the young lady who had she wanted to stop using credit cards and she had the money in savings to pay off the credit cards and start fresh, but there was fear there.

We saw it with the previous caller who was like, I'm afraid I'm never going to be able to buy a house if I say keep saving at this rate with the market the way it is. And we've seen it throughout we woven throughout other calls as well. And I want to take a moment I want to read this section out of the book specifically about fear.

a negative expectation of the future

based on a rational or irrational belief. >> So if you think about that, some of our fears are totally they're like totally valid. It's like this is rational. I could see where that's coming from. Some of them are irrational. But I go on to say I added the element about the future because if you think about it, fear is rarely about what's happening in the moment. It's re it's it's really about our perception of uh it's really about

our perceived outcome or what we think is going to happen in the future. If I do this then some negative thing will happen later.

>> That's what we think. And and it's never about what's happening in the moment. We're projecting ahead and going, "Oh gosh, if I do this, that thing's going to happen out there and that thing's" and we really don't know.

>> And so in the book I walk through understanding that and taking a moment and just writing out what is it that you're afraid of? What is it? Write it down. Cuz when you can look at it staring back at you at the page, it has a whole different life.

>> Right. It's a great point. >> And then you can ask yourself, is this actually true? Is it rational or is it irrational? >> And I have found that the irrational one ones, Ken, they tend to be kind of vague. >> It's kind of like, oh, I'm afraid I'm going to mess everything up if I do that. Well, that's kind of vague. What do you mean by that? What are you going to mess up? Who's how you going to pay?

But the more rational ones tend to be a little bit dialed down. Well, Jade, I'm afraid if I take a side hustle, it's going to be when I come home from work in the evenings, which means I won't be able to pick up my kids, which means I'll miss their softball practice, which mean Right. And you've really dialed it down, that's probably a little bit more rational, and we can talk about that.

>> Yeah. >> But once you've written the fear down, once you've asked yourself, is it true or is it not true? Is it rational or is it irrational? Then we can get about the business of landing on, well, what is what is a more truthful statement that I want to replace that fear with?

>> Yeah, it's absolutely right. I love it.

Just one of the many uh times that you talk about emotions. By the way, we've told you about it. Uh because it it goes on pre-sale today. So exciting. Uh what no one tells you about money. You can pre-order it right now. You get it for the best price. $24.99.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

You get to see Jade's phenomenal arms on the cover as well. That's bonus.

>> All about the arms. Forget about the content inside. >> Yeah. That comes with the book. That's just bon that's just bonus content. Uh

for those of you men and women alike that would like to have better arms. That's right. It will motivate you. >> Better arms, better money starts today.

>> There it is. That's the That's the subtitle of the book. [laughter] Uh but no, you can get it right now. Fabulous book.

Uh by the way, we don't have a book like this. >> No, we don't. >> And uh there's not a book about the emotional side of money. So, this is a great book that I'll tell you just personally is handinand glove with anything else we've ever written on money because if you don't understand the emotional side of it, you can and will many times get tripped up because you are a human.

You're >> right. It is human. >> And you know, we think about human doing, but we forget sometimes that we're actual human beings.

>> And the human being part makes the human doing part harder. And Jade's come alongside of us and uh given us a real life [snorts] uh a real life story full of stories.

>> Oh, it's all story >> on how to win with it. So, you're really going to enjoy it. Go get it. Now, Ryan is up in Virginia. Ryan, how can we help today?

>> Well, good afternoon, Ken and Jay. How are you doing today? >> We're doing well. What's happening with you? Well, I seem to have be having some

decision paralysis and I was wondering if you could just give me some help. Um, I'm a natural saver and at the moment I have about $180,000

in uh cash savings and I'm just trying

to figure out how to best deploy it for

retirement uh eventually purchasing a home and just the future.

>> Okay. So, do you have any debt? >> Would be helpful? >> No, not free. >> All right. So, you're familiar with the baby steps?

>> Yes. What baby step are you? >> My understanding um um I believe four,

five, and six. >> Okay. So, you are actively investing in this 180 is above and beyond your normal 15% that you're putting into retirement.

>> Yes. Yeah. Currently, I have um if I did

my math right, about 20% going into retirement through a mandatory retirement with my state and then a supplementary uh 403b.

>> Okay. Wow. >> And what is your emergency fund? Is it 3 months, four months, 5 months, 6 months?

How much is it? >> Um it's just the the 180.

>> Okay. So, what would be three months of your expenses?

Uh, three months of my expenses would be

uh $4,500.

>> Okay. And is it just you?

>> Uh, it's just me. I'm single.

>> Okay. >> Three Hold on a second. Three months expenses is $4,500.

>> Yeah, I live pretty frugally. >> What's it What's your I mean for What's your >> You live under a roof. >> What's your rent? What do you pay for rent? >> Yeah, that's about right. Um, at the moment I pay um I I rent a room from

family members. So in addition to monetary uh blood and sweat. So >> Okay. >> Uh current rents about $400.

>> Okay. >> And how much blood and sweat are we giving? Sounds pretty gross.

>> Um just enough to keep things the household moving. >> All right. Who you live who are you living with? >> Uh my parents. >> Okay. >> How old are you?

Um 34.

>> How much How much do you make again?

What's your takehome? >> Uh take-home uh monthly is a little over

4,000. >> Hey bro, you're 34. It's time to flee the nest. >> Yeah. What's up with that? >> I know. I know. We We've talked about it. Um we >> I have me and my brother. So pretty open

financially as well. >> How old is your brother? He's um now he's uh 32.

>> So your brother is like, "Hey man, it's time, right?" >> Oh, no. He's uh he's also on the property. >> Oh, no. That's what I'm getting at. You got two brothers who are still living home. I assume there's no women on the radar for either one of you, right?

>> Women on the radar, >> huh? >> Not at the moment. >> Didn't think so. Do do you think there might be a correlation between the fact that you're mid to low30s living with your BROTHER AT YOUR MOM AND DAD'S HOUSE?

>> Uh as probably some of it. The other is

I don't uh I'm a homebody. So >> yes, but be a homebody in your own home.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, it's not a dating show. So regardless of no women being on the screen, uh you need to be out on your own. So you got $180,000. I'll give

it to Jade. We we got about a minute and a half with you. He's got 180 in cash, no debt. >> He's investing about 20%. Jay, >> I know. So, here's what I want you to do. You're >> and he's washing the dishes every night. I forgot to mention that. >> Thing number one is I want tonight your homework tonight is go go look and see

where you can rent an apartment. Start doing research on places that areas of town you want to live in and find out how much an apartment is. Okay? And then what I want you to do with that information of the apartment, >> tell your brother. [laughter] >> Well, yeah. Listen, >> there's your roommate at least. Let's get them both out at the same time.

>> For the first time ever, I I I want you to live on your own. >> Yeah, I agree. [laughter] I agree. I agree. You can I have I have lived on my own before. >> Good. And you're going to do it again. And what I want you to do once you've figured out how much rent is now, I want

you to save up a real 3 to six months of expenses based off of that number of because the $400 the $4,500 that's not going to serve you once you move out. So do it based off the rent numbers of a real place. And then after that, when's

move in date? Cuz that's really all you need. you've got the money and then I would turn [music] around and with the money that you have, I would keep it in a high yield savings account because you're going to keep adding to it [music] because eventually you're going to go from renting a place to buying your own place. So don't invest it.

Keep it liquid because you're going to do that in less than 5 years. >> And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 3. "Should I Open Up A Secret Bank Account to Protect Myself?" | December 5, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:55:39 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Thanks for joining us. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, [music] Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

[music] Sadi is in Vancouver. Hi Satie, how are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, so I have a bit of an odd question.

Um, I'm wondering if I should open up a

secret bank account without my husband knowing in case of an emergency.

>> H, what kind of emergencies do you see

happen? >> Sorry, I'm I'm pretty nervous. Um,

we overspend um a lot each month and

um I'm really trying to um like keep her

keep our [clears throat] payments down on things, but um most of our overspending comes from him and we have

a difficult time talking about finances.

I mean, we're we're getting better at it, but it's still not where it needs to

be at all. For example, two months ago, we over spent by $3,500 and last month

was $2,500.

>> Where's this money coming from? Um

>> um well it's all on credit cards right now. >> Okay. How long you been married? Huh?

>> 10 years. >> Okay.

Okay. There's never a situation

where lying and deception

solves a problem.

All that is is a No, hold on. Hold on.

>> All that does is avoid the problem.

That does not fix your situation.

>> No. >> Okay. It's gonna make it worse instead.

So, I'm not going to tell you to do this because it's not good for you. I'm going to encourage you instead to head straight into the situation wide open. I want you to sit down with a

marriage counselor and I want you to

have an absolute righteous anger fit.

Your husband is misbehaving unbelievably

>> and it's terrifying you.

>> Yeah. >> And I want you to do something about it.

>> Not hiding not hide money from him.

>> We We are um in marriage counseling, but

we've only had a couple sessions so far.

>> Yeah. Yeah. This is not working. This need This is an emergency. tell the marriage counselor that the house is on fire and we're going to die if we don't

fix the fire. We can't just sit around and discuss our uh potty training as children. We've got to deal with this misbehavior today.

>> Yeah. >> Big time.

Big time.

Rachel and I can both hear the terror in your voice.

>> Yeah. And then I mean this doesn't fix the problem but to this thought I'm thinking if I if I am you protecting some level of something and it wouldn't

be a secret account but you would tell him I'm I because we do say don't separate your finances when you're married except for and we do have some exceptions to that and so Sadie this would be one of them for me I if I were you and you would have to tell him again it's not in secret but I'm opening up a separate checking account in my name because I don't feel safe financially with you. It feels irresponsible. I don't know what to do. And if we don't fix this, this is I mean, these are things that end marriages, Satie, and I don't want that for you.

But it's a reflection of who he is. And that makes me that makes me nervous. And it makes me nervous that you can't talk to him about it. You know, it's one thing if he's if he obvious if he's obviously very grieved by, you know, what I don't know, I'm just making this up, that he has a spending addiction or something and he knows the problem.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah, he has like there's things that he's going through that we're also working on together. So, it's

a lot of times it seems like when I want to have >> Wait, wait a minute. What does that mean? That was vague. What are you What are you saying?

>> Things that he's going through.

>> Probably addiction. >> Well, um I don't I wouldn't I don't know if it would classify it as an addiction. Um he used to have a drinking problem that got really bad, but I think I like he I

caught it early enough that he started working on that. So, he's doing a lot better. Like a lot better. Um, but it

does, you know, if he has to slip up one

day, then it means that spending in other areas goes up as well. Um, and

it's usually things like eating out and

video games. >> Yeah. What I'm hearing is a very immature, very irresponsible little boy.

And you've been trying to be his mommy for 10 freaking years and you're really tired.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I don't think I don't think you're going to last much longer if you guys if he doesn't turn this around. So, I think you need to have a really blunt, in-your-face discussion with your marriage counselor and go, "I don't have a lot left in my tank. I'm about done with this guy." >> Okay. >> He's going to have to get his crap together really quick.

>> Do you work, Sadie? Where's the income coming from?

>> Um, it's all from him. And then I get a

child tax benefit because we have three kids. >> Okay. >> But you you're not working outside the home. >> No. >> Okay. All right.

Well, I I think you got to start thinking about um making this as big a deal as it is.

But no, I don't we're not going to tell you to open a secret account. I I'm with Rachel, though. if you want to open your own account and put half the dad gum money in that account and just tell him you're doing it and he can't have it.

Um, you know, and until we get until we get you this >> until you start behaving, you know, cuz this is just out of control. I'm so sorry, honey. >> Well, it may I mean, he's he obviously has a a lot a lot to work on and I don't

and I the language of which obviously we're not in the situation of the slip up and this and that. I think things are more serious uh than you're probably giving weight to Sat or probably you're feeling and maybe not saying but there's a lot of a lot of dysfunction and red flags and for his sake wanting healing and wholeness right >> like a lot of that's coming from somewhere that pain is is manifesting and and going out you know every

direction for him and so figuring that out but in the meantime you and your kids uh yeah financially to keep you

safe >> because you want to keep the lights on right And you just continue to dig deeper in credit card on the table >> and where you can control is cutting up

the credit cards, getting all the credit cards out, you guys together cutting everything up, you know, stopping access points. Now, could he go apply for something in his own right and secret?

Sure. But you can't control that. What can you do today? And as much as you can

figure out where there is money for him to outsource, like stop it, you know, at where it begins. Um, but I'm so I'm so

sorry, Satie. >> This is this is a this is deteriorating before your very eyes and we may see it more clearly than

you do in the sense that um we're we're I don't think we're overreacting, hun. I think you're underreacting. And so I'm I'm >> so overwhelming, you know, not not working, having the three kids and thinking what what's my exit plan if this were the case? I mean, that is so that is so scary and overwhelming to even think about. But um but those are probably discussions if if you have good friends. Um find community and start and

start thinking through Satie for for your life. But my prayer is that you guys heal this and that he finds healing

in his own work um for for your sake

because I'm I'm so so sorry.

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Give them a call at 8003564282.

Vicki is in Savannah. Hi Vicki. How can we help? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so our question is, um, we're a

little bit confused on what my husband and I are a little bit confused on what our next steps are because there are so many moving parts.

Um, we currently have a home that we So, we

lived in Tennessee and we ended up moving to uh, South Carolina. I'm just

above the border of Savannah. M >> um and we moved to live with my dad um to save some money to buy a house because when we were ready to buy a house, we finally paid back all of our student loans and it was 2021 and then

everything skyrocketed. So, we couldn't get ahead of it. So, my dad was very nice um and said, "Okay, you move in

with us." But before we moved in, we had signed on a new built home. So, before we moved to where we live now, we signed on a new built home. um and then moved to dad and saved some money but we didn't realize that the area was a little bit expens definitely more expensive than Tennessee um but you know we were great we could save the money and during that time my dad had a mini stroke so um we needed to stay and we

have to see him because he he's not married or anything like that and he's the only person we have for the kids my husband's family's in a different country things like that so um we then

moved into our house now, which was 453

at the time, and we ended up putting 67,000 down. That's the only thing we could save. But when we signed, uh, it took about a year to build. And when we closed, um, it ended up closing at 8% interest, which was the highest interest rate. So, we had to buy it down like a little bit, but, um, we've been struggling ever since. Since then, we have four kids, four and under. Um, all

of them are developmentally delayed and they all have so many services. Um,

two of them are already on the spectrum.

Um, and then our current mortgage is 373

um, at 7% interest. My husband makes

132. I have a three-month old baby and I was supposed to be a stay- at- home mom, but I went back to work. Um,

[snorts] >> [clears throat] >> And uh my my husband works three jobs right now. Um he's a data analyst and he works uh he's a tennis coach on the weekends and he works Kroger at night to try to get some some uh grocery bills down. Um we don't we're just we're not

sure what to do. We we know we have to sell the house and we've tried selling the house twice already and it's not selling. I was pregnant with my third at the time and then I got too far along um

and had to had to take it off and then I was pregnant with my fourth and it was on for four or five months and I got too far along had to take it off. Um, and

we're not sure what to do. And and now we're having an issue where, you know, behind us is unincorporated land and they're shooting their guns um into our neighborhood and it finally hit a fence and a house. Um, and it's been on the news already. And we can't let our our

four children out in the front because when we bought the house, it was the beginning of the neighborhood. And now that they've built in the neighborhood, it's a main road. So every time we're out there, one of them gets hit. And obviously I said they're on the spectrum so I can't really tell them to um to

like it's it's difficult to teach them.

So I I mean they're learning. They're there you know but we're we're really on it. Um and we're not quite sure what to

do because the homes for rent here are

you know renting is just throwing money away. We know that. Um, we know that we can only afford like a 300,000, but that doesn't exist here. And >> stop. Stop. Stop. >> I'm sorry. [laughter] >> It's okay. It's okay. All right. Um, so

what you're starting to do is you're starting to use language that says there's no way out. And that's simply not true.

Okay? You can't make a statement about South Carolina and Savannah, Georgia area that says there's no $300,000 houses. That's not a true statement.

Mhm. >> There might not be one you want to live in, but there are $300,000 houses and um

>> Yeah, we have looked at some >> So, you have to wait. You have to sell this house >> and you have to remain not pregnant long enough to sell this house.

>> Mhm. >> You can't have any more kids. You got to get out of this house.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. two times you had tried to sell the house and you were pregnant and that's what stopped it in your story if I heard your story right.

>> Okay. Yeah. And so we're gonna have to start planning some very making some very clear decisions and um you've got a

lot of like you said a lot of variables.

There's a lot of things coming at you that are draining the uh gas out of your

tank, the fuel out of your tank. You have your hands full, kiddo. I mean what you described in a perfect world if all the finances were in really good shape with the kids situation you've got with you working on spectrum stuff and you're working on small babies and everything else you are absolutely overwhelmed just with that a normal human would be okay and and

then let's go ahead and have a few bullet rounds come past your house that that always helps you know and then let's add to that the fact that this whole financial stress thing is a mess and it's a mistake and you know you shouldn't have done it and you feel bad about doing it every time you think about it. And so you pile these things up and pile these things and pile these things and pile these things and then the situation just becomes you start your brain starts to tell you that you can't get out that you're stuck and it's wrong.

You can get out.

>> Get on get on the get on the web, jump on Ramsey Solutions, find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and put a sign in the yard tomorrow.

now.

>> Okay. >> We have been I'm sorry. We we've been looking at homes on the outskirts.

>> Okay. >> But the homes on the outskirts um for

lack [clears throat] of a better term are are like the ghetto. Like the the schools don't offer the services that all of my children need. And if we move anywhere else, there's weight list.

>> There is no scenario that you can stay in this house and have a good life.

>> No. Yeah. We're like, >> "So, we have to solve. We have to solve for the kids. >> We have to solve for it, not find reasons it can't be done." >> Okay. You haven't found the solution yet. I understand that.

>> But that doesn't mean there's not one out there. >> Yeah. We thought of another of a solution. Um, there's still building in our neighborhood currently, and we thought about selling this house,

but putting money down on a new build in

the back of the community. But those are still I mean the cheapest one we found was45 and >> you can't afford to live there.

>> Yeah. >> It's killing you.

>> Why would you sign up for more pain?

>> You can't live in that neighborhood. You can't afford it.

you you need to move to something that you can afford and and get your life back. Because listen, if your payments were under control, your husband wasn't working six jobs, you weren't trying to pick up a job, and all you had to deal with was your children, your the situation with your children, that's more than anybody ought to have to say grace over without all the other stuff.

You've got to get some of these things off your plate. You're this is not a sustainable >> situation. and you're going to blow up.

>> And I think the hard thing is trying to

make everything work.

>> You can't make everything work. >> So that's it. So I think there's a a a level of I mean it's kind of almost like grief of like wow I really thought this from a location a school like X Y and Z

was going to look like this and realizing it can't it can't look like this. And so in order for us to get margin and peace, it's probably going to mean, yeah, maybe a move financially that is way better. Maybe the schools aren't as great, but most public schools have the ability. I mean, depending on the county, um, of helping and and your and your kids are small.

I mean, they're not even really in elementary school if I heard you right. They're they're probably like >> two of them are very young. by Yeah. So, um, so if anything, I would just want that stability of of margin and and being able for your husband to quit one of the jobs, right?

>> the physical the physical attributes of the house you're in do not make a home.

>> The location of the house you're in doesn't make a home. You and your husband as a couple make a home for those kids. And it, you know, most

everyone listening to you calling in right now lived in a home that was a lot worse than you're living in now when we were growing up. Almost everyone listening.

Me especially

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>> Paul's in Seattle. Hey Paul, how are you? >> Great. How are you? Thanks for having me. >> Sure. What's up?

Uh, so I'm finding myself in between a rock and a hard place. Um, about I've

been at my current job for about 20 years. Um, I've started when I was 20.

I'm 40 years old now. And um, it's a warehouse job, right? So I took it when I was younger because I, you know, was the the best paying job at the time. Um, I've invested with a pension there. It's union. It's it's great on paper, but about 5 years ago, I started my own landscaping business, law landscaping business. And um it has exploded and it

kind of took off to the point to where I've been doing both for about 5 years

now. And I'm stuck in the spot where

how do you know when it's time to go?

Because I find myself with a lot of fear of the unknown of losing something that's so secure that you've been a part of for about 20 years. And >> well, boat anchors boat anchors are secure, >> but they'll drown you. >> Yeah. >> So, what are you making at the day job?

>> Uh, I think we we make about $38 an hour

or something like that. >> So, what do you make a year at the day job? >> Uh, probably about 807 7580 I would say.

>> And what do you do at the warehouse for $80,000?

>> We are uh union pickers. Basically, order selectors. We fulfill orders. You load him, you know, >> $80,000.

>> Yeah. About $75,000.

>> Well, he's been there 20 years. >> I don't care. >> Two. >> You're picking boxes for 80 grand.

That's amazing. >> Okay. >> But just like you said, I'm all I'm doing is moving boxes. And I feel like my purpose, my goal, I'm not >> So, what are you making at landscaping?

What was your profit last year?

Uh, I mean, because I'm doing it both on side, I would probably say it's probably a little bit less than that, but you have to understand I'm only doing it about 20 hours. >> No, that wasn't what I asked. What I asked is what you actually made on your tax return. What was your profit?

>> Probably about 60.

>> Okay, good. All right. Um, and and for

me, you know, I don't have any I don't have any debt in my business because it's all been so all the money that I've been making, I've just been paying off all my equipment, you know, so our family has >> Do you have any other debt?

>> No, we have no household debt. We have no credit card. >> What does it take a month for your household to operate?

>> I would say on the most expensive end, maybe $4,500 a month.

>> Okay. Well, you can quit tomorrow if you want. My wife works at the court so I can get on her medical. Um, we have about $20,000 in savings for our nest egg. No credit card debt. >> You can quit tomorrow if you want.

>> I mean, and I and and I know this, but me being the sole provider and going into the unknown, it's it's almost like I feel like I'm getting a divorce, you know, for 20 years. It's I've almost been at that job longer than I have not been. >> Yeah. But she's not a good wife.

[laughter] >> No, it's not. Um it's just the getting the courage enough, [laughter] >> you know, getting the courage enough to to Well, and not only that, it's >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

Very much so. >> Let me let me let me stop you a second. Okay. Your security does not come from

someone else's ability to provide you a paycheck. That is an illusion.

Your security comes from your ability to get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. You have two methods of doing that now. One is you've been employed for a long long time lifting

boxes. One is you've grown your own business. That's two ways that you can get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. But the idea that I have a stable job, stables are where

they keep horses when they don't run.

>> So go run.

Okay? Go do this. It It's an illusion.

your stability, your your sense of security is an illusion because you're basing it on the fact that those goobers over there at the warehouse are going to write you a check and somehow the union's going to take care of you.

Laugh, laugh, cough, cough.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, now let's go back to who's really going to take care of you. God

and Paul.

>> Absolutely. go run your landscaping business and make $130,000 a year and

work a considerable less hours a week and enjoy your life.

>> And that's what I'm after. You know, I mean, I felt like, you know, I I've I started when I was young and my priorities as I've gotten older have have changed drastically about what's important to me and just time with my family and just being able to prove to myself that I'm able to make a living for myself. But it's a very scary thing to do when you leave them there and trying to get >> It would be scary if you were making 30,000 at the landscaping.

If you told me you're making 20, I wouldn't tell you to quit, >> right? >> I would say, you know, get your hours up on the landscaping. Let's get the in get the boat closer to the dock before you jump. But your boat's really close to the dock. You're just stepping.

But you've been used to standing on the dock and you need to step into the boat, man. >> Well, and and and I know that, you know, I'm I'm turning away so much business because I can only I only have so much time. >> You don't have to convince me, Paul.

>> I'm already sold. I >> think he's convincing himself. >> I guess I guess the million question is, how do I convince my wife? [laughter] >> Oh, what is she saying? What's she saying?

>> Um, I love my wife to death, but you know, it's very one of it's it's one of those things where fear She she is very much so afraid of

>> change. And this is a very big change because we constantly >> listen, no one's afraid of change when changes for the better. They're only afraid of change if they don't think it's going to work.

>> If you get a brand new nice car and it's better than the old one. No one says, "I'm afraid of change." >> Right? >> They only fear change is if they think it's going to be worse. >> That's the only time people fear change. That's a misnomer. It's not true. So, we love change when it's for the better.

>> All of us do. So, yeah, I love change.

And so, all we've got to do is she's got to get her head around where money comes from. And it doesn't come from a quote

stable job. It comes from your ability to go into the marketplace and earn money. And dude, at any minute, you could go get a job like the one you've got again if this whole thing falls apart. Whoopty- doopy.

>> Yeah. >> But I promise you, it's not going to fall apart. I promise you. You got fiveear track record. You're talking to a guy who our our company consults 10,000 small businesses. We coach a lot of small businesses. I would tell you the truth. You know, I would if this idea sucked, I would tell you it sucked.

>> Yeah. >> It doesn't suck. This will help.

>> Yeah. And it, you know, being being in being in Seattle, the evergreen state, you know, it was just one of those things. I really enjoyed it. You know, I I did it as a side hustle because, you know, we were just looking for more income and it just exploded into something I could imagine. >> I'm already sold. I'm already sold.

>> I'm already sold. You don't have to sell me. You just got to talk to her about it. And the bottom line is is you're gonna be just fine.

>> You're gonna be just fine. >> Yeah. How much does she make, Paul?

>> Uh she probably about as much as me. I mean, I would say she's probably in the 70, you know. I You're going to have a $150,000 household income almost immediately. >> And double of what you guys need to run your household, too. >> Yeah. You're making a lot. And you've done really good with your finances.

You're not in debt. You got an emergency fund. Everything about this is stable.

Stable. Stable. Stable. Stable. Hey, man. Go do it. This is the time. Fly and

be free. Please, please, please quit

that awful job. Please.

>> I know. And he said he's the sole provider. >> Have you ever Have you ever heard he's not the sole provider? >> That's it. So, she's I mean, >> guys out there in America, if you've ever heard the term golden handcuffs, you just witnessed it.

>> You've just heard the discussion. This is golden handcuffs. And it is a it's a fallacy. So my favorite story on this is

my grandpa lost a business in the Great Depression and he got a job at Alcoa Aluminum in the accounting department. He worked there 38 years because it was stable because it was a good job and because he was scared and he couldn't he didn't he didn't have >> Yeah. You had an income after the depression. He was happy to have a job and grateful to have a job. And my grandma was the same way and he worked there until he retired. And he was a wonderful man. He was a wonderful man.

So, I printed the Financial Peace book and went out on my own after we went broke and we're trying to get the Financial Peace book sold. And the

publisher sent me an email one day said, "We just sold our 1 millionth copy of Financial Peace." Then my phone rang and it was my grandmother and she said, "I was praying for you this morning. I think you need to get a job." [laughter]

>> Isn't that sweet? She's so sweet. It was >> like you're not Dave is Dave is not working. [laughter] >> He's writing books.

>> Well, I'm just worried about you. I mean, you're self-employed and it's not stable. >> Mhm. [laughter] >> Go get them, Paul.

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>> Steve is in Raleigh. Hi, Steve. How are you? >> Oh, I'm doing fine. It's great to be with you guys. >> You, too. How can we help?

So, I'm 62 years old and I've been trying to think about retirement. Um,

uh, the things that are holding me back are uh, well, health insurance is one

thing and also the fact that no money

will be coming in, but all money will be going out. Uh, and I having a hard time getting comfortable with that. And what I really want is somebody to tell me that I can stop.

>> Mhm. What do you mean no money will be coming in? You mean you won't be earning an income? >> That's right. >> Okay. And uh so do you have a pension?

Do you have a 401k nest egg?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I've got uh 401ks and IAS

and all that stuff. >> Okay. >> Um >> no pension.

>> No pension. >> How much is in all those accounts?

>> Uh 3.5 million.

>> Okay. All right. Well, if no money's coming in, it's just cuz you're not taking any of it is all. Okay? Cuz let's

just be What do you make a year?

>> Uh 175. >> Okay. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

>> Well done, Steve. >> I assume you started with nothing and became a multi-millionaire.

>> Yep. >> I'm very proud of you. That's amazing.

>> American dream is not dead. Gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, meet Steve. So now um so you understand that three 3.5 invested in good growth stock mutual funds if it averaged 10% would be 350k.

>> Yeah. >> Income that it produces without touching the nest egg.

>> Right. >> Which is twice what you make now.

>> Right. Uh I I guess that you know

there's still there's still you know there's some years it's going to be up some years it's going to be down. What do I do in the down years?

>> Use some of it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So the the down years very seldom

are below 5%.

Find a time that the m that the stock market made under 5% the number of times in the last 30 years. Hardly ever.

>> Right. >> Okay. Right. like maybe two. And so you

use a little bit of the 3.5 maybe, but maybe don't take the whole 350 off.

Maybe take 200 off and let it grow by 150 to cover the down years.

>> Right. >> See, do you guys you It's impossible unless you lose your mind and join Congress for you to go through this money before you die. [laughter] >> Is your house paid off and everything, Steve? Any debt?

>> No, no debt. Okay. >> House paid. >> Okay. How long you've been married?

>> You know, I'm not married. Um, >> what is it you want to do with the the rest of your life?

>> I've still got to figure that out. I would like to travel some. Um, you know, life events, recent somewhat recent life

events have made me realize that what I

should be doing or what I feel like I should be doing is spending time with people that I love. >> Yep. >> And people that love me. >> Yep. And the whole, you know, pushing paper around is >> not a good use of my time >> anymore. >> What do you do for a living?

>> I'm a attorney.

>> Okay. All right. Cool.

>> Do you have family, Steve, around?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I've got a brother and sister. >> Okay. >> It's great. >> Okay. Well, I I'll tell you two things.

One is yes, I you're in excellent financial condition. You've done a wonderful job and you're able to retire.

And if you pulled off 200 and left let let it grow by 150 a year, this would run in perpetuation. And I don't know who you're going to leave the 3.5 3.5 3.5 3 oh 4 million. Oh 4 and a.5 million

because it's going to keep growing.

Okay? Because you're not going to use it all. So who you going to leave all that to? Uh so I easily, this is a no-brainer

equation. You're easily able to quit.

Then I will also tell you because I'm your age. I'm 65. I'm a little older.

and that you have friends and I have friends who retirement wasn't good to them emotionally,

>> right? >> They didn't know what to do with themselves. >> So, I would develop something I'm going to do. I don't care what it is, and it doesn't have to be 80 hours a week. It doesn't have to be pushing paper. uh you do have a unique skill and license that

you could probably do some things that would be unbelievable blessing to some ministries and to some nonprofits from an attorney's perspective um and not strain you even a little bit but give you something to lay your hand to the plow so you know you're still planting some corn in this earth >> right >> and you just need something to do >> Netflix doesn't cut it [laughter]

Yeah, that's true. You're right. Uh yeah, that's going to be key for me is having a plan. >> Yeah. So, I think I would develop that before I pull the trigger on this. But you're the question you called here for is mathematically this is a no-brainer.

>> Okay. >> It's 2x of a no-brainer,

>> right? Okay, that's good.

>> Yeah, you're you're in great shape. sit down with your financial coach or your financial advisor and talk about how you can draw 200K off this and make sure it's invested in something that's averaging what the market's averaging and you'll be just fine.

>> And uh >> well done, Steve. >> Yeah, man. That's amazing. It's amazing.

>> And it's interesting whatever happened, you know, we didn't ask, but he said, "Recent events have made me realize." Oh, wow. And it's use those those are gifts. whatever that is, whether it was a a tragedy or a gift, a blessing, whatever that thing was that caused this kind of change of heart to a degree, listen to that. I mean, there's something something in that for you.

>> Yeah. It's um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's exact. It's very smart to do that. And you ought to be doing that at all ages as you go along. Uh but also when there's some when you have these certain >> uh appointments y God appointments that come across your path, you need to listen to them. You're right, Rachel.

Very good, Jeffson. Uh, wait a minute.

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Rachel, Steve and our caller before that trying to quit the warehouse job and go in business with yourself. It is amazing that when you >> uh are resilient >> and we people are talking a lot about resilience these days that that um that

that things have been pretty easy for a long time around America. And when things are hard, people don't know what to do because they don't know how to do hard stuff. And so teach your kids to do

hard stuff, boys and girls. And teach yourself to do hard stuff. Practice doing uncomfortable things because these are the actions of people that win. When you do that over a long period of time, take a job in the warehouse and you just get up and you go to work every day and

you do your work and you stick to it. A lot of people don't have stick to it. Does that guy had stick he stuck with it for 20 freaking years when Steve has been an attorney and he's just got it done. He keeps putting money aside. He builds up a $ three and half million dollar nest egg. Then when you stop

this resilience, this pushing, the

scratching and clawing and and persevering, sometimes we don't know what to do. Like I finally I I got there. >> Yeah. >> I went through the tape. I won the race or I finished the race. Now what?

>> Yeah. >> And and your your brain and your your

life rhythm is so bent on resilience and

scratching and clawing that it's hard to stop and take a step back and go, "Wait a minute, this worked.

This this landscaping thing's big enough. It works. It's almost like a celebration of your hard work to enjoy it. Enjoy the fruits, right? It's like people that call in and they don't know how to spend money because they've been saving their whole life. Same idea, right? It's a different muscle. >> Yeah. You have enjoy the fruits of what you've done. >> You really have to make a conscious thing. We see that a lot these days. A conscious effort to say if I've been busting it to downshift and enjoy a

little bit is it that's a different gear. It's a different gear, but it's a good gear.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at88255225.

So, Rachel, I was on uh Fox a little bit earlier and we're talking about affordability for housing and this um uh

people not being able to afford a house and the the sense of depression about that and so forth. And so I've done a little bit of uh discussion and analysis on that. And um I want to let you guys

out there know a couple things that that um we're we're thinking and we're seeing around here. There's kind of two sides to the coin. Side one of the coin is what could be done. Okay. So house prices are affected always by supply and

demand.

And we have had an inventory shortage,

more buyers than sellers for about 20

years.

We've had more buyers than sellers. And anytime you have a shortage of anything, the price goes up. Pretty simple economics, right? Um whether it's a

Nintendo or a Cabbage Patch doll or a house, when there's a shortage of something, the price goes up. Too many people chasing too few goods. kind of thing. So, what then we start thinking about, okay, what could you do to boost inventory? Well,

there are a couple of things that have been happening that have been harming inventory pretty considerably. And this is actually one of the few times you're he'll hear Dave say that the government could actually do something about this.

Okay. One is we've got large

REITs, real estate investment trusts, and American corporations and Chinese corporations buying thousands and

thousands and thousands of single family homes. >> Mhm. >> And taking them off the market and putting them up for rent. I mean, like

five or 600,000 in the past few years.

>> It's a lot. It's not just a few. So, one

thing you could do, and I'm really against limiting free enterprise, but when when uh the basic use of a single

family home is for a family to get a tow

hold in the marketplace and to build wealth and to have a stable place to live when that's being affected by

foreign organizations and by out of control capitalism, then yeah, you got to put some limits on that. >> So, you some kind of a stoppage stop

that. Yeah. >> Another thing that's draining the market is Airbnbs.

>> Tens of thousands of single family homes, condos, uh, co-ops, whatever are all they're all they're bought by people at unrealistic prices only because they're turning them into a hotel >> and they're making tons of money and people are buying 8, 10, 20, 15 of them at a time. And uh, and that did not

exist 20 years ago. Okay. And so some

kind of a limitation, not necessarily a

complete stopping of that, right?

>> But limiting the number of units that go off the market so that a young couple getting married have a house to buy instead of it turning into an Airbnb >> because somebody bought it nothing down using some stupid Tik Tok guy's formula to buy it. Okay? So, you know, some kind of limitation on that. But here's one.

I was talking to Brian Befini about this the other day. He's the top real estate co. >> Oh yeah. Does he he's in this >> he's he's really into this stuff and he and I were having a discussion on the back porch about it and he had such great ideas.

He said and I had not thought of this. I just thought it's brilliant.

it up when it was but it's at least 20 years ago that the capital gains law on single family homes was changed.

>> And it was a big deal. It used to be that you uh got a tax break a little bit

on your personal residence and they changed it massively to whatever it was 20 years ago and said, "Okay, married filing jointly, you can make up to a half million dollars.

Single can make up to 250,000 tax-free >> on the growth of your >> capital gain on your personal residence if you own it one year or more." Okay?

>> And that was a big breakthrough.

>> Well, guess what? Half million dollars and much anymore. >> Mhm. and he said raising that to a

million >> would take a bunch of boomers >> out of their home to >> that would say >> I'm I would downsize but I'm going to have to pay stinking much tax that I'm not going to downsize >> and see if that level >> will sell the next level sells to move up into that and the next level below that moves up you create a domino down the price points >> and so giving a million dollar exemption instead of a half million dollar exemption and even do it on all uh small

ownership. Yeah. >> So, if you had two rentals and you wanted to dump them and you can make up to a million dollars, you dump those back into the inventory pool for that sweet young couple to have a place to buy. >> And but they don't want to get rid of that rental because the tax Yeah.

the amount of taxes and there is no capital gains break on that except you're paying 15% or if you make over 400,000 you pay 20%. Right. >> So, you get hammered if you've got a house like I've got a bunch of houses. I probably got 15 houses.

Most of our real estate is not houses, but I got 15 or 20.

>> But I'm not going to give the government a bunch of money. So, I'm instead I'm going to have to do some kind of 1031, roll them, and I'll get them back out of the market uh and and turn them into commercial property. But most people won't do that. I I actually know how to do it. Your husband and I will be doing that together. So, but the um but if you

gave people a tax break on the rentals that they own >> and a t of a up to a million >> Yeah. >> and on their personal residence that there'd be a bunch of houses going to market. >> Interesting. Yeah. >> And that would stimulate this inventory.

So, if we could start dumping in and he brought up one other thing that's really technical, but it's true. Uh, so when you do development, if you develop a subdivision, if you're a developer, you buy a piece of land and you put in a street and you put in the utilities and you go through all the stupid permitting and you put up with the stupid city and you go through all the stupid stuff about the trees and the stupid stuff about the creeks and all the stupid stuff you have to do to develop a subdivision, right?

Okay, when you finish with all that stupid stuff, all those expenses you can't expense. They have to be depreciated over a large number of years. So you could put >> $15 million in a sewer system for a subdivision. >> Yeah.

>> And you don't get to write off $15 million. You get to write off a million a year for 15 years or something like that. >> And if you up that >> and he said if you just said they can expense it instead of depreciating it, that would stimulate developers to start building subdivisions, which would stimulate >> Yeah. >> You know, and so you could do that, but that's giving the evil businessman a tax break.

Oh my god, you liberals.

anyway, the um but this is how you get the thing started. >> Mhm. >> You actually get tax breaks to people to cause them to do this stuff. Quit. Let me keep my money >> and I'll go do stuff.

>> Yeah. >> That's what investors say and that's what people say when they're selling their house. I'm not selling this house. I'm not giving the government all that money. It's my money. And if you say, "Okay, you could keep your money." It'll stimulate the stinking inventory.

>> Yeah. The other side of the coin, though, and I've almost used up all my time here, and I'm not going to take two segments on this, is we're increasingly realizing that the 25 and 26 year old in America has been screwed by the large banks and the car companies like never before, like no generation before. So, if you're 25 or 26, you've been screwed by the big banks like you've never been screwed before >> from the loans that they're having.

They've, you know, you cannot buy a house when you have a $1,200 car payment. When you have a student loan that's $85,000 and you got credit card debt coming out your ears, record credit card debt, record car debt, record debt,

debt, debt, debt, debt. And then you sit there and whine and you can't buy a house because you got victimized by these people. You set yourself up for it. You signed up for the trip, baby, but you've been screwed by the city banks. What's in your wallet?

The money that's going to city bank should have been going to buy you a house.

H.

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[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Jeff's in Texas. Hey, Jeff. How are you?

>> Good. How are y'all today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, I'm trying to figure out uh what I should do with my house to move along with my debt snowball. Um, I work out of

town. I'm probably home in my house about 60 days a year. The rest of the time I'm in my camper. And so I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my house, rent it out to renters, or uh just keep it.

>> You're single? >> Yeah. No, I'm married with two kids.

>> They're in the camper. >> What are y'all doing in the camper?

What's Is it travel? Is it work?

>> Work? >> Yeah. I'm in the oil and gas industry, so I'm not traveling for work.

How much is the How much is the house worth?

>> Um, I think we could probably sell it for about 265. I think around Yeah, about 265, 270. >> What do you make a year?

>> I take home 145.

>> Okay.

Part of me would have you keep it just

to have a piece of have a home, you know, a piece of real estate. >> How old are you?

um 32 and watch 31.

>> Okay. So, I think the big deal is um we

don't want to make a decision based on the snapshot that is the moment. Let's instead look at the field the the film strip and see how this film is going to end. >> So, what are you going to be doing in 10 years?

>> Well, I'm hoping, you know, spend another three to five years in this industry and then go home with everything paid for is kind of my goal.

>> Yeah. And then at that time my kids would start school and the wife could go back to work. >> Yeah. Keep it. >> And then paid for. Keep it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You keep it. >> Okay. >> Because that's what that's why you're keeping it. Not for not for its current use. You're keeping it for where this is going. >> And you guys want to be in that area, Jeff. Do you think if you were to if you were to forecast it? Okay.

>> It's definitely a good area. It's got a good school district. That's why I bought it to begin with. Yeah. But uh so you keep it even if like if I sold it, I'd be able to pay off um 40 the other 40,000 in debt, which >> Yeah, you make you make 140,000. You can pay that off.

>> Okay. So, cuz I figured I can pay everything else off besides camper in 10 months. And the camper, it's it's got a lot of debt on it, too. About 84,000.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's going to be a problem. The camper is the expense. Um

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a cost of you >> of your career.

your career cost you money and the campers, you know, the loss of value in that thing because those things go down in value like faster than anything on the planet. >> This is going to just like like when you're done, you're going to be with cousin Eddie, you know. >> Yeah. So, well, I would just hate to Yeah. to sell an asset like a house that's going to go up in value to pay for something that's going to go down in value. >> Yeah. >> So, >> so you would What about renting it?

Would you would you consider renting?

>> No, I don't think I would.

I think I just I think I would enjoy my house when I can get home and use it.

And there might be some times that the family stays and you go out for two weeks and work and let them enjoy the stability of the house instead of living in a freaking camper.

>> Yeah. It's so nice to go home and have room and space. Amen. Cooped up and, you know, >> Well, yeah. Even though the camper's big, they're not spacious.

>> Yeah. This one's not going to roll away.

I mean, I It's that It matters. It matters. I think it's going to be good for the psychology of your relationship with your wife and your kids for them to have a solid home base to touch base in

and to rest a little and you can go out and do a few weeks and come back and occasionally they can go out with you in the camper and come back and then you just but you continue to bust it. What you're doing is paying a price to get to a place.

What you're doing now you have no intention of doing the rest of your life.

>> Correct. Yeah. And the company I'm with is based where I live. So there's maybe an opportunity to go, you know, tell them I'm done in the field and hopefully try to work from the the home office there. >> I would start having those discussions and say 3 to 5 years, what classes do I need to take? What mentorship program do I need to be in to be able to come home

in 3 to 5 years? I'm going to bust it.

I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I'm not quitting. I just need to I need this is my plan and I want to make sure you guys have a plan, too, that matches my plan.

>> Yes, sir. I'd start talking to your team, your your leadership team about that. Um because they know that you guys don't do this stuff forever.

>> Yeah. >> There's a shelf life on what you do,

>> right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. I mean, there there's not any 65 year olds much doing what you're doing.

>> Yeah. Correct. >> Yeah. That's what I mean. So, they're used to people turnurning out or turnurning up over time. And I'd want to get I just want to get dialed in with that and get aligned with them on what I need to be doing to get that opportunity >> so that I've got a place to go. Not next month, maybe not next year, but in 3 to

5 years, I'm going to be doing something different. And so let let's be let's be working that out. Yeah, I'd keep it.

Jeff, it's a good question. It's an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever thought about that that way, but if he had said >> we'll get that with truck drivers that lives >> Yeah. If he had said 15 years, I might have said, "Sell it." >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But three to five. >> Yeah. And the littles, they got a place to They got a home base they can stay in. >> Yeah. >> That's cool. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Michael's in San Diego. Hey, Michael.

>> Hey, Dave. How Rachel. How are you guys?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> Uh, I have a bit of a career question that I need advice on. I recently took a

completely different career path in a different job that pays about $30,000 more a year to try to help my wife and I get out of baby step two a little bit faster. >> Cool. >> But I'm noticing Yeah. Yeah. I know we're excited, but I am noticing some pretty kind of severe red flags about this new position there. Every It's a director of sales position. Um, everybody in this department is new. The

turnover is extremely high and I already have people there that are very upset that have only been there for about a month. >> What are they upset about? >> Kind of. >> Well, my sales reps, they have zero leads. There's literally no one doing any kind of marketing. And >> were they promised leads?

>> Uh, yeah, to a certain degree. It's an

expectation that they're to make a certain amount of phone calls per day and they can't even meet those phone calls per day because there's nothing in our CRM tool for them to work on. Um, so

I'm concerned about like long-term.

>> Is this a new company?

>> No, this company's been around for a significant period of time. Uh, they went through a transition recently.

>> This doesn't sound like an integrity problem. It sounds like a competence problem.

>> I Yeah, I would I would agree. Uh, I'm

just more concerned about like long-term longevity, right? Like with this career, should I stick around for a year or two?

Kind of see. >> Well, if I'm going to stick around, I'm going to work on the problems >> and I'm going to get some help from leadership working on the problems.

>> Just sit here and watch the thing burn down. >> No. No. And and of course, I agree with you, but I've already brought some things to leadership and they're not really open to discussion.

Wait a minute. We don't have any leads in the CRM tool. You want these guys to make calls and there's no calls for them to make and leadership says I don't want to talk about it.

>> Pretty much. >> Why? That's weird. Do you want to lose your whole sales team?

>> Yeah, it's again it's very odd to me and

I've started looking at like who's doing the marketing, how's the marketing handled, can we get out into the community? I've started to ask these questions and the response I got was that's why your predecessor is no longer here >> because he asked questions.

[laughter] >> Um, >> is that what he meant? Is that what that meant >> about? Yeah. About the leads in particular? Yes.

>> Okay. Look for a job.

>> Okay. >> Bizarre. >> Yeah. You need to get another job.

>> Okay. >> This one's not going to last. You're going to get fired.

>> Yeah. My my old job will have me back right now. >> No, I don't want you to go take a pay cut. I want you to make more money.

Let's get a new job making 30,000 more than you're making now.

>> Okay. >> Only this time, it's working for competent leaders.

>> Yeah. Well, thank you guys for [laughter] I appreciate it. >> Is this an epic leadership fail or what?

This sounds like corporate America beyond belief. The last guy that asked questions is no longer here. We can't find his body. And don't ask questions.

That'll get you killed. What? What kind of corporate crap is that? That's just crap. >> Is it a large company, Michael?

>> Yes. >> Um, it it is. Yeah, it's it's a it's a large company. >> Yeah, they're large enough to absorb this level of crap.

>> And this one department that you happen to be stuck in. >> Yeah, really. Good God, man. What an

what a corporate idiot. Well, the last guy that asked questions doesn't work here anymore. Don't ask any questions.

Good [laughter] god.

That's classic. It's like office space.

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>> [music]

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Not in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Greg in New York. My wife and I are approaching our 60s debtree including our home and have a net worth of over 2.5 million including

$125,000 in a high yield savings. We

bring home about $14,000 a month and our expenses are about $8,500. I plan to

partially retire from my job soon by cutting back my hours. My wife wants to keep working for a while, bringing home about $3,000 a month with benefits.

We've agreed to go gazelle intense again by cutting expenses and living like poor college kids, only this time enjoying home-cooked dinners instead of ramen noodles to help us with the transition.

Does that make sense at this stage or are we in a good enough position to start shifting towards balance and enjoyment?

I think you have I think you have some margin. I think you're okay.

>> Yeah, you you >> Greg, you >> you guys need to um redo your math.

Okay, 2 and a half million

is the net worth. And so it's not the actual number, but if you invested 2.5 million in a decent growth stock mutual fund, you would make $250,000 a year.

And then the and not touch the 2.5 million. Okay. Okay. Now, all of that's not invested because some of this is the paid for home. >> It's part of the net worth. So, that's not that's not the real number. But the point is, you're not utilizing >> in this math the income off of the nest

egg that you've so diligently built. And so, start taking some income off of your nest egg that you've so diligently built. And you don't have to take the you don't touch the nest egg. Just take some of the income off of it. Have it invested decently in good mutual funds.

And then whatever they make, throw that in the pot. And you know, then $3,000 a

month just becomes kind of cute that your wife is making. That's just kind of cute. It's unrealistic. So, no, you do not need to act like college kids. And no, you don't need to go gazelle intents. No, you're just fine. You're fine. You got plenty of money and you're making plenty of money. So, >> well, yeah. I mean, if your expenses are 8,500 and you're making 20 20 a month,

you're fine. Like, you're fine.

>> Yeah. Hello. Yeah. and you know he's not going to quit. Uh he said we're bringing home 14, she's making three, he's making 11. He's going to cut back his hours.

They're probably still going to be at 8,500. >> Yeah. If not more >> income without touching the nest egg.

That's right. Without taking the income off the nest egg. So yeah, you got got plenty of room. >> You don't need to go gazelle intense.

Fine. >> You have uh transitioned, sir, from the

acquisition mode to the enjoyment mode.

You've been building the nest egg. Now it's time for breakfast.

Crack the nest egg and begin eating, sir. >> Oh, I was like, where's the >> What's the breakfast? Well, we got to do something with these eggs, right? Got to do something with the eggs.

The golden eggs from the golden goose. That's right. The goose is The goose is big, fat, and sassy. Let's get some of the eggs.

Okay. >> Enjoy. Enjoy. >> Let's ride the eggs out.

>> Good job, Greg. >> Yeah. You didn't call me up with um no money, and I'm trying to retire because I deserve to cuz I'm old. No, that was not what you called and said.

proud of you. Very well done. Jackie's in Kansas City. Hey, Jackie. How can we help? >> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm calling because I'm preparing for a divorce after 20 years as a stay-at-home mom, >> and I need some clarity on how to navigate the finances, particularly with the house and asset division.

>> Wow. I'm >> sorry. What happened? Um, my husband has

a sex addiction and it's been chronically unfaithful to me. I've tried to reconcile multiple times and this most recent time I'm I'm done.

>> Wow. >> So, I'm sorry, Jackie.

>> That's awful. How old are the kiddos?

>> I've got 19, 16, 14, and 10. All boys.

>> Wow. All right. And um what does he

make? He makes about 220 a year.

>> And um what is how much debt do you all

have? >> Just 11,000 on his truck which he's planning to keep. My van is paid for.

>> What about the house?

>> Um the house is approximately worth 550,000.

We owe 143,000 and the payment is 1,800 a month with 2

and a4%.

>> Okay. Mhm. >> And um >> what does he have in a 401k?

>> Um we have $160,000

in investments and between two Roth IAS

we have $270,000.

>> Okay.

So 400 grand. Okay. 430. Okay.

>> Mhm. [sighs] [panting] >> So So my big question Dave is I don't have any income. So even assuming the mortgage would be difficult. I'm in grad school to become a counselor. And I don't have a a sense of what alimony might be, but child support is around $1,800 to $2,000 a month. And so qualifying for a mortgage is >> So how far before you finish your degree? >> Uh two and a half years still.

>> Okay. All right. Well, uh, apparently

you've not been talking to an attorney yet. >> Not yet. I've decided, but I before I go an attorney and >> Well, the attorney is going to tell you better than I can in your state, what your state law is going to afford you >> on this. Um, >> so,

and of course, it's also what you guys can mediate as well. So, a friend of mine that that used to do divorce counseling says divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. So, this now is despite all of the pain, the anger, the angst, uh the worry, despite

all of the heartbreak, this is now a math problem.

>> Mhm. Yeah. Sadly, that's why I was calling. Yeah. Cuz I think if I keep the house that I'll be cash poor equity.

>> Yeah. if he if he took this other stuff and you took the equity in the house, that'd be close to an even swap. And then he pays child support and alimony.

>> That would not be unusual, but I'm not going to recommend that.

>> Okay. >> Um so what I what we found is this. Um

doing this for a long long time.

Mom wants to mama bear wants to hold on to the house cuz the kids have been through enough and making them move and change schools is just too much because they feel like that's the last straw.

like the kids can't they they're not resilient enough to make it through that actually they are >> because their their world's already upside down. The house and school is a minor part of their world really.

>> But in Mama Bear's mind, it often feels like it's a bigger part than it actually is. And so she takes the house that she can't afford to to protect the children

from the last little bit of pain that she can and um and it becomes a curse

rather than a blessing. And so that's what I don't want to do here. Yours is not super bad because you don't owe that much on it, >> right? >> And so that makes it and it's not super expensive. >> Yeah. 1,800 bucks. Yeah.

>> So, um, you know, if you could end up

with a chunk of money and the house and,

you know, like not an even split. In other words, >> um, you know, you might could make it.

Uh otherwise, you're going to think about if you're going to try to keep the house, you're going to have to think about a career while you're finishing up your counseling.

>> Yes. Yeah, that was part of the the question mark. I'm willing to work during grad school, but when I get to my internship, I'll be working 30 35 to 40

hours a week just in unpaid internship.

>> And how long is that for? Is that a semester long? >> That'll be a full year. And so taking an additional 30-ish hours. >> A lot of those though are paid. A lot of those are paid gigs.

>> Yeah. this particular program, the school that I'm in, that's an unpaid position. >> Well, let's think about a different way of doing that then. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Um because if you could get paid to be an intern, that changes the equation too a little for you. It doesn't doesn't change the whole thing, but it helps make the adjustments. So, yeah, you've got to you you don't let the illusion

that the house is providing more for the children than it actually is put you in a position that it damages the next decade of their life. and yours.

>> Right. Right. >> So, cut it loose if you have to, >> but I don't know what you're going to be able to come out of this with. And I think >> and an $1,800 mortgage though, you know, if you think about it's not bad. Renting and stuff could be around the I don't know. There's a part of me that you may be paying that regardless.

>> But you got to eat. >> Yeah. >> And you got to pay lights and insurance and you got no money coming in. So, we got to have some money coming in and that's what that's how we balance this out. So, >> and the alimony could help if there's any of that child support. Yeah.

>> 20 years. Yeah. It's probably depend on the state. I don't know.

>> I'm sorry, Jackie.

[music]

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>> Hey Dave, how are you? How's it going? >> Better not deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, in a nutshell, um early

40s, um about 190 in debt and I think

it's accumulating still.

um recently lost my job um in in uh

beginning of October and um you know just trying to determine

if you know with this mountain of debt if bankruptcy is the route as opposed to

um you know going deeper in debt while waiting for additional forms of income.

>> Why would you go in to debt while waiting on additional forms of income?

Why don't you just go get something to do right now? Like it's Christmas time, lift boxes for FedEx and eat.

>> Oh, a thousand%. If they were to call me tomorrow based off the application that was submitted last week, I would do it.

Um, but as it stands as today, uh, there's no no uh retail part-time

temporary roles calling back at the moment.

>> That's strange.

Okay. >> Um, >> what's the 190 in debt?

What does it consist of?

>> Yeah. So, it's about 140 150 in uh in

student loans.

Uh about 20 in credit card debt and

about 30 from a personal loan.

>> Okay. Bad news for you.

>> Yeah. Student loans aren't bankruptible.

>> So, it would it would only Yeah. So, 50 of that would only >> Yeah. >> be wiped away in a bankruptcy.

>> And that's not that you can probably clear that out. Is that all that stuff?

the 50 behind. Are you behind on all of it?

>> Yes, I'm current but still a little bit

uh the credit card usage was high >> and so um I did kind of take heed to

some of the advice that I heard a while back on your show which was to put you know the higherend uh amounts on autopay for minimal payments just to keep it active while trying to chop away at the smaller ones.

And I was doing that for a while, but then um I had a a series of uh job

losses. So, prior to the the job that was uh I was just laid off from in October. >> What were you laid off from in October?

>> I was a a fundraiser. So, a director of development for a non forprofit.

>> Why were you laid off?

uh there was a leadership change and so the the board of directors made some

decisions on uh leadership roles.

>> Okay. And why did you lose the other jobs >> again laid off? So this was my my traditional career background is in the advertising industry. >> Mhm. Um, and you know, it's high

turnover in that high service turnover in that industry and and my client didn't renew with the agency and so the agency couldn't afford to keep me on salary.

>> Are you married?

>> No, but I am engaged with uh two children. >> Okay. Okay. >> One and five. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Now, bankruptcy doesn't solve your problem. You have a career crisis. You don't have a debt crisis.

you got a lot of debt, but the debt is not what's killing you. It's that you have no income.

>> Correct. >> And so, um, you know, I don't want to treat the wrong problem.

Um, the the real problem, the core problem is income and consistent income.

And at the moment, any income and uh

that's your core issue. So, that's what I want to spend all of my calories on.

And if you just took all of the debt payments and threw them in the trash and didn't pay them for two months, that's not the end of the world. You can you can get you can get right back up once you start making some money again. What were you making at the last gig?

>> Uh 100,000.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> And and the gig prior to that was 165.

>> Yeah. So I I I was thinking you were a six-f figureure guy just listening to you. So um I think you will be again.

Uh, I just don't know when and I don't know what. And at this moment, it feels scary and uncertain. But no, you're not

bankrupt. You're just unemployed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And so, we got to solve that. And and by the way, the like Rachel said, the the bulk of your debt is not bankruptible anyway. And if you can make $150,000 a year, it'd be silly to file bankruptcy on 50 grand.

Cuz that that's the essence of what you'd be doing. follow me.

>> Yeah, I do. I do. I appreciate that.

>> Yeah. So, tell you what, hang on. I'm going to um I'm going to connect you with Ken Coleman's uh book uh finding the work you're wired to do and the proximity principle book uh which is a really good book on landing a position of some kind. And um

uh the best thing you can do is what you've been trying to do it sounds like legitimately and I do believe you is to land something >> immediately just to get your hand to something instead of sitting and worrying. >> Yeah. And with the job market even listening to Ken the you know just putting in applications online really isn't going far these days. So it's it is going in person finding someone that

works somewhere that knows an open position. So, like there's some strategy because it is the job market's tough these days. I mean, I mean, you know, the retail side, I'm not sure, but when it comes to like a full-on career like what you're talking about, um, it takes more than just an application online or finding, you know, a LinkedIn thing.

>> Yeah. And I'm not even sure to get on with FedEx that just filling out the applications enough. I think I'm going to bother some people over there >> and try to get over to, you know, I'm ready to start today. You ready to start? Let's go. What do you got to do?

I mean, that they they probably need somebody today. I mean, it's Black Friday. It's that, you know, everything's moving again. So, retail's not running slow. Sales are not bad. So,

um I I'm, you know, I I don't know where they're all going, but sales are not bad. So, interesting. Very interesting.

Josh is in Ohio. Hey, Josh. How are you

>> doing? Good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I'm going to uh receive $400,000

roughly next summer from my dad's farm being sold. I want to treat this money with wisdom and not blow it. What's the best way to use a lump sum like this to build stability, invest wisely, and secure my future.

>> Good for you. >> Passed away back in 2019.

>> I'm sorry. >> Kind of think ahead.

>> How much debt do you have, Josh?

I have $18,000 between uh two cars, uh credit card, and student loans.

>> Mhm. >> And then I have I have multiple medical bills. I'm not exactly sure what those equal, but I guess around uh 20,000.

>> Okay. So 40,000 clears your debts,

>> right? Yes. >> Okay. Do you owe you you own a home?

No, we rent. >> Okay. All right. >> How old are you, Josh?

>> 30. >> What do you make?

>> Uh, rough roughly 77,000 a year. I drive

trucks, so it's a little different each year. >> Okay. So, what I would do is pay off

your debts, build an emergency fund, and I would set the rest of it aside in a mutual fund and forget that you have it.

Get with a Ramsey Smart Investor Pro.

And, uh, it sounds like you need about 50,000 out of this. So, put about 350 in a mutual fund and just let it sit there and pretend like you don't have it and let it sit there and grow a little bit and you keep working with no debt payments. I want you to start saving money and no debt payments. I want you to get on a on a a detailed written budget with your wife and use this opportunity to change you, not the have

the money change everything. It's not enough money to fix your life. It's a lot of money. It's more than you've ever seen, but it's not enough to make it where you don't have to do anything. You got to get you got to be smart from this point forward. As you said, wise >> and so I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. And I want you guys to work that system.

>> Yeah. Without the 400. And I think that's really important because, you know, used to credit cards, car payments, like that's the norm. And when you just wipe it out, there's no emotional sacrifice at that point, right? >> So, you guys have to have a standard of living that you can live on with your income. And you guys feel good about creating these new money habits.

>> We're not borrowing money anymore.

>> Yep. And then if you choose to use that money, you know, three years down the road to buy a house or to use it for your life, you have [music] good money habits in place. So working on your money habits is going to be really, really important. Gosh.

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Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio.

Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host. Open phones at 888255225.

Elizabeth is in Arkansas. Hi, Elizabeth.

How are you?

>> Hey Dave and Rachel. >> Hey, what's up?

Okay. So, I am um an newly single mother

of seven children um in the process of

getting a divorce and I do not make enough money to survive and I need to know what to do next.

>> My gosh. Where are you guys in the divorce process?

>> We have only just had one hearing about

custody. Um >> is he writing >> that? It's still >> No. Why? >> I have not received a dime. >> Why? >> Because he doesn't think that he should.

>> It's not up to him. It's up to your attorney to get off his butt and talk to the judge about sending the woman with seven children some money.

>> Yeah. Well, right now we're having the kids half and half a week. I get him a

week. >> Yeah. >> He needs to be writing checks to you in

any state.

>> Yeah. Was your attorney a wuss or not smart? >> I'm I'm beginning to wonder,

>> but I I don't have the funds to get anyone else at this point. So, >> Oh, you you need to pick up the phone and chew their ass.

>> Yeah. >> Can you say that? >> I just said that. I'm I [laughter] mean, I got a lady with seven children that's not getting supported by her dead beat soon to be ex attorney sitting on her thumb.

I can't think of anything that makes me matter than attorneys who sit on their thumbs.

>> Yeah. And so, um, currently I have,

um, I have $6,550

in student loans. Um, that's what I I was able to get that. I I graduated this summer with an EMT um license and um, I

got that so I could move out because I had no access. >> How old are your children? >> Um 8 to 15. Uh two sets of twins.

>> When are you starting the EMT gig?

>> Well, there is a possible opening in January, but again because of the situation with the kids. Um it's going

to be really difficult for me to get a like a vanilla EMT job. Um because it's

usually 48 on 96 off and I don't I want

I have the kids I have to you know >> I think it's very doable >> the 48 you're on they're on him

>> right but again he's he's been very um

>> I don't care what he wants.

>> You seem to think he has control of this. He has no control. There are these neat things called laws.

>> Mhm. when your attorney actually bows up and acts like an attorney.

>> Mhm. >> No, definitely a listen, not unusual at

all for one of the spouses in a divorce

that has child has co-are custody with their children to be working for the fire department or the EMT and have 48 on, 96 off. That's a fairly normal rhythm. And to put the child care the ch the child custody arrangement to fit that rhythm is not unusual at all. is done every day in divorce courts in America.

>> Okay. All right.

>> When somebody has an attorney.

>> Yeah. >> God. Okay. Um, so yeah. So this guy

this guy is a your your soontobe ex is a

control freak overbearing bully, isn't he?

>> Yeah. >> And has been for how long?

>> Um, 17 of our 18 years.

>> Okay. cuz you twice in the conversation already gave him way more power than he actually has.

>> Yeah. >> And two and two [laughter] times I corrected you on it. You following me?

>> He [clears throat] he really doesn't have I mean this is a Yeah. This guy's um he's so neutered he doesn't even know it. >> He's got seven freaking children. The

judge is going to mop the floor with him.

Assuming your attorney actually shows up for work.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, yeah, this is >> Elizabeth, do you have the ability to get someone else walking in front of a judge?

>> Yeah. >> I'm sorry, Rachel, what was that?

>> Do you have the ability to find someone new if you needed legal counsel that's different for your sake?

>> I don't think so. Um, I actually had to borrow money from my daughter to be able to pay the retainer. Um, and I I'm I'm

currently making $24 weekly. Um,

>> doing what? >> Just inh [clears throat] home care. I do

inhome care and then I when I can I do substitute teaching.

>> Um, and that pays $91 a day.

>> And he's not taking care of the kids at home. He's not doing any of the child custody right now at all.

>> Well, he's he's got the kids every other week with the exception of one of my oldest twins. Um, she's at my house every week. >> Okay. Um, so >> so you could be working that entire week for a lot more than 204, >> right? >> And you need to be, >> but the problem is is the reason that my

daughter is at our house is because um she she was suicidal and um going to her

dad's was making it worse.

>> Oh, I can imagine. Can imagine. Is she not is she not safe at your house?

>> Yes. >> Okay, then go work the week that she the week that he's the rest of the kids are gone. you go to work that week.

>> Yeah, >> you got to you got to create some >> money is she's she is um not supposed to

be left alone um yet. Um so that's

that's been a challenge with that. But I

I have been working in while they're at >> You have family in the area?

>> They're over an hour away.

>> Mhm. >> Um my mother is a is a widow. Um, she

she happened to work to survive herself >> and then I have siblings, but basically everybody is just working paycheck to paycheck. And I don't I don't want to be that anymore.

>> Well, you are right now. You're just trying to eat.

>> So Bubba needs to start Bubba needs to start writing some checks to you. You need to get some money on the weeks that the kids are gone. And if she needs to go stay with her grandmother that week so somebody's watching the the uh teenager, that's cool, >> right? Uh she wouldn't be able. She's in school though and um >> not right now.

>> She's in Christmas right now. >> Well, >> well yeah, that's in a week and a half

um Christmas break.

>> Yeah. So I mean you've got to create some income. $24. I don't know how what are you eating on?

>> We we did qualify for food stamps and so

that's food stamps is taking care of the food. Um, uh, some friends from church

stepped up and helped out with some stuff that has helped cover gas because I'm driving the kids back and forth to their school.

>> And what and what's he saying? Your husband, your ex, soon to be ex.

>> He's blaming me for everything. >> Yeah. So, um, listen, I want you to hang up and I want you to call your attorney and say, "If I don't start getting some checks immediately out of this guy to feed these seven children, we're over here on freaking food stamps and he has seven children. He's paying nothing.

You're not doing your job." >> Yeah. Okay. >> Right now. >> All right. Do your job. >> Beth, I'm sorry. And hey, hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We have Aldi gift cards, Elizabeth. They're one of our sponsors, and so we'll hook you up with some of those. Yeah, we'll get you some groceries going, kiddo.

>> Oh, I'm so sorry, >> man. God, that pisses me off.

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>> [music]

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>> I still don't understand this. We have Cyber Monday week. How is a Monday a week? I'm so confused. >> Shopping week. >> Cyber Monday week deals aren't over yet.

We've extended the sale. It's longer than a week. >> We love it. [laughter] >> Sales $12 hardcover books, $12 assessments, $12 questions for humans decks, and $6.99 for audiobooks and ebooks. This does end at the end of the week, [laughter] Sunday 127. Ramseysolutions.com/store

or click the link in the description. Boys and girls, Daytona Beach is on the line. Jana is calling. Hi, Jana. How are you? >> Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

So, uh, my question is is my I'm 46, my

husband is 43 and we have nothing saved

for retirement and um we don't own a

house. Uh, well, correction, we own a

house, but it's a rental right now. Um,

and we're thinking of selling it. Um,

and then my husband has about 100,000 in a TSP. Other than that, we have nothing saved and I'm a little nervous.

>> Well, I wouldn't be panicked, but I would be concerned.

>> Okay. Cuz if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. I'd be concerned about that. But 46, I mean, you you know, you got 20 years, you'll be okay. >> If you get your crap together, are you going to do it?

>> Absolutely. >> So, what's the house? I don't understand. You have a rental house, but you don't live in it.

>> Correct. Um, it was >> Where do you live? >> part of We live in Daytona Beach.

>> I know. But I mean, where do you What's your house?

>> So, we are renting. >> Why? >> Um, because my husband had a job relocation.

>> Oh, okay. >> To Daytona Beach.

>> Where's the rental house? >> Why don't Why didn't you sell the other house?

Um, my husband has some sentimental

issues. It was his first house that he ever bought and he just didn't want to get rid of it. Um, it actually was a >> He should get rid of that and his old girlfriend's phone number both.

Seriously, >> get rid of the house. That's stupid.

There's a house I bought in college. I love the house. Oh, come on. Get rid of the house. It's not a blessing to your family. >> How much could you get for >> You're renting now because you own a rental property, >> right? Yeah. Sell it. What's it worth?

>> It's uh we just had an appraisal done on it. Um it's 313.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> 200. >> Great. Sell it. Buy you a house in Daytona Beach. 15-year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth year takehome pay. Have you got other debt?

[snorts] >> Um yeah. So we're on baby step two right now. We're finishing it this month.

>> Great. >> Good. So, if you finish baby step two and you sell this house and you buy a house with that money and then you have an emergency fund, you're on to baby step four, right?

>> Right. >> Boom. I love this. And what's your household income?

>> Um, together, well, my my income kind of fluctuates a little bit.

>> I mean, what do you make a year? What do you make a year?

>> Uh, about 165 to 185.

>> Okay. If you say 15% from 46 to 66 of

one of $150,000, you're going to be multi-millionaires,

>> Jana. >> Okay. [laughter] >> If you say 15% in baby step four, you said you knew what baby step two is. You know what baby step four is, right?

>> Which is around 30,000 a year.

>> 30,000 a year for the next 20 years.

You're going to be multi-millionaires.

Okay.

>> Pretty cool. Pretty cool. >> I'm going to get >> You want to put it in there? >> Yeah, I think we should. >> Let's get the exact number. But I mean, >> can't I can't do 40 years in my head, but the I'm not It's probably Okay, I'll give you my guess. Three and a half million. >> Okay. You're I'm going to do 43 because that's you, Janna. Right. >> No, she's 46.

>> No, she's 43. >> I'm 46. >> Oh, who's 43? >> I'm 46. My husband >> to to 66. So, we're going to do 40.

Let's do 40 years at uh at

>> 3,000 a month. >> 2500 a month. It's 30,000. 2500 a month.

See what you get. >> We're going to go 12%. People are going to get mad about that, but we're sorry.

4.1 million. Ah, >> 3.5 wasn't bad. It's a good guess, Dave.

>> Did you get that though, Jana?

>> It's pretty good. >> So, our leftover income is right now, and that's once we're done in this month, will be $7,415.72.

So, we only need um like $4,000 to live

on. >> You need $2,500 a month going into retirement in baby step four. Baby step five is you need to save some towards kids college. Baby step six is you need to pay off this house I told you to go buy. >> And that is working till 67, by the way.

That was the that was the number in the investment calculator. But all that to say, >> you're going to have three and a half to $4 million. You guys have got to you have to start making some grown-up moves and keeping a house for sentimental value >> is not one of them. >> You know what I mean? Like you you guys kind of have to face reality too, right, Jana? I mean like >> it's a house. He needs to

>> to feel that and see that. >> Yeah. Dump it and you guys get you a house bought and start working this plan. It's going to work.

>> You're doing great. >> It's going to work.

>> And you know what's interesting? Let's go back to the beginning of this call.

Did I not hear a little bit of panic and emotion in your voice that you were going to retire on Alpo?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I'm [snorts] sitting here going, "No, don't need to panic. >> Are you emotional? What what's going on?" I mean that I'm just I'm frustrated because up until this point we've been

paying $75,000 a month for my mom to be in an assisted living and she blew her entire retirement and sent $500,000 across seas to a

Nigerian prince of some sort.

>> Oh my gosh. And so I am sitting here

supporting her and it's frustrating to me and then I look at her and I look at me in the mirror and I'm like, you're going to be just like her and not >> you're not, Jana. No, you're not.

>> And why would you be like her? You just figured out that's a dumb idea. >> You're not going to send half a million dollars >> to a Nigerian [laughter] princess.

>> Jana, say that to yourself. I am not going to to send half a million dollars.

You know, you're not making the same decisions your mom made.

already you guys are already working your way out of debt. You're already you're already gaining financial grounds. >> Let me tell you what normally happens where a family is dysfunctional with money. Okay. The kid goes the other way too far. Not the same way.

>> Yeah. >> Very few people follow their in their in their broke parents' footsteps. They go the other direction and often times too far where it's dysfunctional. And that's in Rachel's book, Know Yourself, >> which hasn't really happened for.

It's not like they're oversavers. They're not. You know what I mean? So, like >> a lot of people are if they grow up and their parents are dysfunctional so they they don't heal from that and they go bananas.

>> In Jan Yeah. And in Jana's case, >> yeah, Jana, all you got to do is just follow the baby steps.

>> Even if it was half of what we just pulled out, that's $2 million at retirement. >> You're you're fine.

>> You guys are going to be great. You really are. You got to make some moves.

>> Stay away from the Nigerian prince.

>> Yeah. Oh, no. [laughter] Man, they pray on the elderly, though.

I'm not kidding you. That is like the scam of the century.

>> That's been around since before the internet. >> No, it was like the forward the forward the forward. >> We used to get it in the mail snail mail. I used to get the Nigerian prince offer in the mail snail mail before there was email before there was an internet. >> And the worst is the dating catfish stuff happening of people in a relationship with someone. >> I never understood why anybody wanted to date a catfish. I'm so confused.

>> Oh my gosh. [laughter]

>> Such a boomer, >> man. And we've get some interesting ones on here. Jade SM sniffed one out the other day on the air. >> Yeah. That she had never even met the guy, right? The >> Yeah, the government was getting ready to send her 401k to this dude and put it in stupid Bitcoin and then we're like, "So, how many times have you all actually Oh, I've never actually met him." I'm like, "Oh, catfish. CATFISH." OH, WOW. WOW. WOW. OH, MAN.

>> So bad. [laughter] >> Oh man. >> You're not her, Jana.

>> Jana, you're going to be great. You really are. Listen, if your family puts the fun in dysfunction, boys and girls, it just means you don't have to be that.

That's all it means. You don't have to you don't have to follow it. >> I know it's scary. That that is that's terrifying. It's >> and just the burden that you're going to be for your kid, right? Like you feel all of that. And so because of that, that's part of the motivation to change.

So you can change your family tree.

You're different. You're a different branch. You're creating something completely new for your kids. And it's beautiful. We're going to work this time. You have time. the passion that you have to not be that. Use that passion to work this system and then you won't be that. It's that simple.

>> It really is.

Rob is in Syracuse. Hey Rob, how are you? >> I'm good, thanks. >> Good. How can we help?

>> I was just uh I I I was listening to you on Sage Steel and I didn't realize that you had you had a bankruptcy in your past and it got me thinking, do you think about the same things I do? And uh it was 20 years ago. We were a young couple. >> Mhm.

And uh I just think about the the the debt that was discharged and I keep a list and I just wonder if you ever think about that [laughter] about whether because I know I'm never going to pay it back because they're never going to take it, >> but I just was wondering if it was something that you or or anybody else thinks about. Yeah, people think about it because they're people of honor and uh the people of honor signed a debt and they know they owed it and the law says according to bankruptcy that you don't owe it anymore but your heart still is um tender to that >> and so all that means is you're a good person now obsessing about it and continuing to worry about it that's u I wouldn't do that.

I I instead would just accept grace, >> move on.

about the time I, you know, when I was 16 years old, I got the car keys the first night. I got my driver's license. I went to the pizza, my dad's pickup, and the first thing I did is I backed into a guy's Corvette.

Now, I had to pay for that and fix it obviously, and my dad did. Nobody was happy. Not the Corvette guy, not my dad, not me. Nobody was happy in the equation. But and but I I don't think

about that all the time. It's an interesting scar because it was really traumatic the first night you got your license, right? But >> Oh, yeah. >> But it's also, you know, a 16-year-old kid, you know, everybody makes mistakes.

I just happen to do it with a pickup and a Corvette, but um, you know, move on, Dave. Don't don't sit don't sit up at night and worry about that. So, you don't want to take it too far, but to have a tender heart towards it is just means you're a good person. In my case, mine manifested itself with the bankruptcy stuff years later. Uh about 10 years after we filed bankruptcy, we were making substantial money again.

And um I woke up in the middle of the night with a very vivid dream. And I felt very very sure God was telling me to go back and pay it back. Um and I

told my wife and she said, "Absolutely not. Those people pissed all over us.

We're not giving them a dime." Cuz they man, we had some jerks we dealt with. We had some people that were did all kinds of illegal stuff, all kinds of stuff. It was our fault. We caused it, but man, it was She's like, "No way." And I'm like, "Yeah way. I'm pretty sure this was God and I'm pretty sure we need to do this." No, we're not doing that. So, two years went by and I finally we were by then

we're making even more money and the amount of the bankruptcy was fairly small in comparison. And I'm like, "Sharon, we're supposed to do this. I I I really want to go back and do this. I've got the money." And she said, "No." We actually sat down and met with our pastor in a marriage counseling session over it cuz we were arguing about it and couldn't get a resolution. And I was very sure. Um, and so we ended up she

she acquiesced and I said, "Look, we spend more than this on other stuff.

It's what I think we're supposed to do. It's not," she says, "It's not the money, it's the principle." I know, but we need to do it. So anyway, she finally went along with it and we did go back and it was a real pain 12 13 years after the bankruptcy to get some banker who it's not his money. They

don't have a way to put it on the books cuz it's off the books.

>> And we had it was a it was actually a lot of work >> to get to get these people to take money. It was crazy. >> That's what I was figuring. Yes. That's that's what I was thinking about too is like who's going to who's going to >> I mean if you found an individual that was on there like you know somebody like that they're like oh yeah I'll take the money and I had a few of those. Uh but

uh then one guy's like oh don't worry about it. I'm like yeah I'm worried about it. I need to do this and he's like okay and send me a check. So I did.

And then most people were that way but then some of these banks they were just morons. But the banks are >> so funny. >> They're morons. So, but I also don't tell that story very often, Rob, because it sounds like a humble brag for one thing. And the other thing is I don't want to put it forth as a principle that I believe that everyone should go back.

>> I don't think everyone should go back and do that. I think I was told to and it's probably, it's easy to surmise I was told to because I'm in this position and so I needed to be I needed to have a little bit, you know, be a little bit more above reproach, so to speak. But even then, I don't tell people. And so I'm often, you know, the haters on the internet are like, "Dave Ramsey filed bankruptcy.

He's a he's a thief. He stole the money." And they don't even know I went back and paid it. And I and I don't go into the comment section and go, "Yes, I did." You know, just let it go. Screw it.

Actually, well, I really I'm I'm glad I heard the story, but I really wanted to let you know that it was a lot of your principles when I'm reading when I back 20 some years ago after filing bankruptcy that got me back on track.

>> Good. >> Good. Praise God. That's why we're here, man. Hey, that's a great question. It's a good discussion. >> And I don't know if I would keep a list anymore. He said he keeps a list of it.

you know, unless you unless you feel >> some kind of spiritual direction or

>> um >> cuz honestly, I was not thinking about it. >> Mhm. >> And I just, you know, what 10 times in your life, you have a dream that's that vivid that wakes you up and you can't go back to sleep. And I'm sitting at my computer and I wrote down the details of the dream.

I I've got it in a file in a in an email to myself or in a word document to myself cuz it was that vivid. And I that doesn't happen that often. I I dream every night and I don't have any idea what it is, right? you know, right?

>> But um but so I really felt like that's what it was. But I'm not sure. I'll know when I get to heaven for sure. But >> um and that's not why I'll get to heaven either, by the way.

>> but the prompting and leading that was something bigger than you to do something. And that could be anything in life. And this happened to be this.

>> Yeah. >> Um and for Yeah. And that's not for everyone's story to your point.

>> But it's very interesting with bankruptcy that on the one end of the spectrum there are people that are very flippant about it. It's like, ah, >> I'll just file bankruptcy. >> I'll just file bankruptcy. I don't know. They have they they feel no obligation.

Yeah. And on the other end of the spectrum, you got Rob still keeping a list >> 20 years later. >> 20 years later. So, yeah, I'd probably either pay it back or burn the list.

>> Mhm. >> You need to get it you need to get off your plate. >> One side or the other. >> Get off your plate and quit quit quit having it as hanging back there in the back of your head.

Let's move on to something else. And I And I'm perfectly fi fine with you walking in grace and just let it go. perfectly fine with that. Again, I'm not going to take my story and impugn that as a pherocetical principle on everyone else because I don't think that's what I was getting.

I don't that was not the the sense I had from it.

Madeline is in Chicago. Hey Meline, what's up?

>> Hi. >> Hey, how can I help?

Uh, so I just graduated in May from college and my student loan payments will start up in January. It's $22,000

in debt and then I also have $2500 in

credit card debt. >> Mhm. >> Um, so my question with the loans is they all have different interest rates, subsidized versus unsubsidized, uh, and just the best way to go about paying those effectively.

>> How many do you have?

It's 10 different loans.

>> Wow. Lots of little ones. Okay.

>> So, a couple of 2,000 here and [clears throat] there. >> List them smallest to largest.

>> Okay. >> Pay minimum payments on everything except the little one and attack the little one as fast as you can.

>> Throw that credit card debt in there, too. Is the credit cards multiple credit cards? >> Just one credit card. >> Okay. Yeah. So, put the $2,500 credit card. >> You probably have some student loans smaller than that.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're going to do those first. You're going to cut up the credit card, by the way. Quit using a stupid thing.

>> I'm not kidding. That wasn't funny.

[laughter] I cut it.

>> Maline, are you working?

>> Yeah, I am. I have a part-time remote job and then I also work as a waitress.

>> Okay. How much do you bring in a month?

>> Uh, monthly I'm bringing in about

$5,000. >> Good. Wow. Good for you. And if you can live on nothing and drop three grand on that, you're going to be done in no time. You'll be done by next Christmas.

>> Awesome. >> Yeah. I mean, you got 20 $25,000.

So, $2,000 a month, you're done by Christmas next year.

>> And that that includes if you don't get a full-time job making more, you know.

>> What's your degree in? >> Yeah, that would be my goal. Marketing.

>> Oh, good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You'll get a better job than that. Yeah. Go get a big job. Knock it out even before that. But I want you done by Christmas. Say, "Christmas is my date." Say it out loud.

>> Christmas is my date. >> All right. Knock it out, kiddo. You got this. >> Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book to show you how to do it.

Our

scripture of the day, Romans 15:4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, [music] so that

through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope.

Jim Ran said, "Formal education will make you a living. Self education will make you a fortune." Sam is in Raleigh,

North Carolina. Hey Sam, how are you?

>> Hey, I'm actually in Wilson, North Carolina. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um, I'm newly engaged. Um, and we've had

a discussion, me and my now fiance have

had a discussion about buying a house.

Um, my grandfather's house, he just passed away and my family thinking about selling it. They're going to keep it in the family. They're thinking about selling it for tax value. Um, I really

like the house. She's not really sure about the location. And that was my

first question. And the other question would be, how much money do I need to save to buy a house?

>> Okay. Uh, how old are you, Sam?

>> I am I just turned 26.

>> Okay. And what do you make a year?

>> Uh, 62,000.

>> What's your fiance make a year?

>> Uh, 54. >> Cool. And, um, when will you all be getting married?

>> Um, haven't set a date. We're getting through the holidays, but probably sometime in 27.

>> Okay. All right.

And um what will your grandfather's house cost if you were to buy it?

>> Uh tax value just under $250,000, like

246 or 247, I think.

>> What do you think the thing's really worth? >> Um I looked it up on Zillow and all the other websites and it's listed for 340

to 360. So I feel like I'll be gaining

>> a little bit. Yeah.

>> And um Okay. And do you have any money?

um little to none. I mean, I've got I've

started up with Financial Peace University. I've started my nest egg

kind of adding to it every month. I've got around 27 $2,800 saved up in a um

money market account through the credit union >> and you're out of debt.

>> Um I've well I've got $4,000 worth of

debt. um paying that off. That ring

hadn't even made one payment on it yet.

Um I intend on paying that off before the end of the year.

>> This year or next?

>> This year. >> So in the next couple weeks, >> few weeks. >> Yes. >> Okay, that's good. All right. So you'll be debtree and then you'll start saving.

When are you required to close on your grandfather's house? Could you rent it for a year while you save up some money?

>> Yes, I can. That is also another option.

So right now it's okay. Now, here's the last question. What happens when you want to sell the house?

>> Um, I would sell it back to my mom or to my family. >> What if they can't buy it?

>> Um, >> do you have to sell Do you have to sell it at tax value then or do you can you sell it for full price?

>> I would sell it to them for whatever I bought it for. >> Then don't buy it. >> Yeah, it's not a good investment.

>> No, don't buy it >> because you can't make any money on it, >> right? If you buy a house for $200 or $300,000 and 10 years from now you have to sell it for $200 or $300,000. That was a bad deal.

>> All right. >> It it needs to go up in value. So no, >> unless the family can all agree, Sam, that you know by the time you want to sell it, >> you can sell it for what it's worth.

>> $10. Yeah. That you can sell it for what it's worth or you can sell it outside the family if no one wants it for what it's worth either. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of like a first right of refusal. >> I give them first right of refusal. But if they don't want to buy it for what it's worth, I mean, the thing could be worth a million dollars in a few years.

>> Yeah. And I mean, it's on family land.

We got it's 650 acres. Um, and there's a

bunch of barns there. >> You don't get 650 acres with this, though. >> No, no, no. I get an acre and then I get some barns that are actually on the farm. >> Yeah. You don't get anything. You get an acre of land and a house.

>> The rest of it is just you have access to, which by the way, if you drive over there, you'd have access to it. But anyway, you don't have to live there to have access to that, >> right? >> So, no, that's not that's not relative.

I I don't think this is a good idea cuz I think you're going to get trapped.

>> Mhm.

>> Thank you. That's how I've been kind of feeling. >> Yeah. I think your I think the family has >> your fiance has a good, you know, gut instinct about her, too.

You know, that she's she's a little bit like, uh, I don't know about the family thing and the location and all of it. When you guys buy your first house, Sam, you want it to be a win. You want it to be a fun experience.

But it puts you in a position where you guys can't make a good deal out of it for the

what they need from it and what you need from it are too far apart.

>> Yep. >> And it's not that either one's wrong or or anybody's bad or anything like that.

It's not stupid or something like that.

It's just it just doesn't fit your life.

And really I I wouldn't if I'm them. I

don't want you to be able to sell the thing later. And you know that doesn't I

mean like I've got some properties I don't want the corner of it gone.

>> You know I've got some properties I bought the corner in and I don't want to sell it again. You know that kind of thing. So no I don't I can understand that. That makes sense. But if I were you two, I think it's a lot cleaner for the two of you to for the family.

>> If [clears throat] you wanted to rent it for a year or two and while you're saving up money to buy then that would be great because the more money you put down of course the faster you can pay it off. Alyssa is in Albuquerque. Hey Alyssa. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so just a tiny backstory is um when

I was dating my husband, who I've now been married to for 15 years, um his mother used to tell me that she was running out of money, that they were going to be poor soon because she was a trust fund um child and they were going

to run out of money. So before my husband and I got married, I asked him um you know what does this mean for us?

And he said nothing. My parents are going to take care of their finances themselves. They're going to handle it that we will not this will not impact us. Which I should have known was not true. Fast forward 15 years, his parents

are out of money. Um they own their home outright. It's a small property probably worth $500,000. And then they also have

another small piece of land in the mountains with a cabin on it that's just

a shell of a building um probably worth

$80,000.

Um but they do not receive enough income to live. They receive maybe $900 from

social security. They've never worked much. >> They are 85. My mother-in-law is 85 and

my father-in-law's um set or he's 80

about 80.

>> Um we have gone, yes, we have gone and

built them a casita on their house so they could get some rental income. Um and that brings in about $1,000 a month,

but they still are cannot live and it's

basically medical bills um and things like that. So, we have now started paying their utilities and their health insurance. >> They need they need to sell the house.

>> Exactly. This So, so I keep telling my

So, my So, I tell my husband, "What about I know you don't I know most people don't like this, but a reverse mortgage." >> No, they don't need to do a reverse mortgage. They need to sell the house.

>> They need to sell the land on the They need to sell the land in the mountain, and they need to sell the house, and they need to buy a $200,000 one-bedroom condo.

Okay. >> And that'll give them 300,000 400,000 to live off of. >> How's their health? >> Not good. >> No. Not good. >> Okay. So, it's gonna Yeah. Yeah. So, it's not like another They're not going to be a hundred probably.

>> I don't think so. I mean, I you know, who knows? Who knows? God willing, but >> Sure. >> Um, but not not while my mother-in-law's had a heart attack. She's had a mini stroke and she goes, she rides the ambulance to the emergency room once a month. Yeah. >> Thus, her medical bills continue to grow. >> Yeah. Yeah. They need to get a sweet little one-bedroom condo in an area

that's that's very nice and peaceful.

And they need to sell off all their stuff and they need to sell off the land and they need to sell off the house >> because they didn't save.

>> And no, you guys don't need to support them. Your husband needs to stop this.

>> The reason he wants to do this is because he wants to inherit this property. >> I don't want to inherit the property.

It's not that fancy. No, thank you. And you don't want a property with a reverse mortgage on it? No. That puts this hour

of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 4. A Financial Plan Only Works If It Matches Your Reality | December 25, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:52:32 |

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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is88255225LE8825-5225.

[music] All right, we're gonna get to your calls, but coming up very soon. Really fun story from my colleague here. You may know her journey. She and Sam are hubs.

paid off half a million dollars in debt. She gets you, folks. If you're in debt, she gets you. She really does.

Fun story I asked her to share. I've gotten to know her and Sam very well. And so, that's coming up. You don't want to miss that.

Those of you who are kind of on that edge today. You're going, "Can I do this?

>> You can make it." >> She's going to tell you how. It's going to be fun. But first, Jack is up in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jack, how can we

help today? >> Hey guys, uh, thank you so much for taking my call. I um I bought a RV for

60,000 um on a 15-year loan at 18%

interest.

>> Wow. Why'd you do that?

>> Um I'm realizing how bad of a decision it was. It was to live in um to save up

eventually for a house. Um, and uh I'm

realizing like the interest is um 800 a month on just interest.

>> My goodness.

>> Only 50 bucks goes to the principal and I'm realizing it'll be like 16 months before I even scratch the surface under what I borrowed. >> So, uh I was wondering because obviously

I want to get out of it now. Um, I started the the baby steps. Um, all I

had was like like a,000 personal loan,

2,000 personal loan. I had some student loans. Um, I had some credit cards, but

uh I I only made 2,000 a month when I

bought it. So, I don't even know how I got approved for it, >> right? >> But, um, >> subprime >> one one by one. And uh I got rid of

everything except for the camper. Um my income's about 4,000 a month now.

>> Okay. >> So um >> where are you living?

>> Uh um I got a job as a truck driver. So in the truck.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Are you okay? >> You don't you don't sound very okay to me. Maybe it's just your voice, but I'm just sens.

I'm really nervous. I just >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I'm good. >> Okay, great. >> Okay, so you've got Did I understand correctly when you said you got rid of all the other debt except this RV?

>> Yeah, everything. Um >> Okay, good. >> I did make a little mistake. I know you were supposed to save a th000 first and with [clears throat] the first thousand I put it towards the debt.

>> Um >> Okay. >> And >> but yes, I have my $1,000. Everything else is gone. >> Good. [clears throat] >> Except for this camper. >> And you still owe 60. What's it worth if you were to sell it? Uh, the dealership

offered 31. >> Oh, lordy. But what if you were to sell it private sale? Have you looked into that? >> I have it listed for 38. And um I've

been trying to call the show for a couple months now. So I owe uh 4 uh8 on

it now. >> You owe 48 on it now. And you could sell it for 31.

>> 38. I just got to list

38. >> So you're a 10. It's a $10,000 deficit

there. What keeps you from going down to a credit union or going down to a bank or getting any kind of loan >> to to to clear this out? Why don't we do

that?

>> I uh canceled my credit cards when I removed them and it brought my credit score down pretty low. >> Uhhuh. >> What about a credit union?

>> Have you gone into a bank to see? Cuz at this point, here's here's my thinking on this. My rationale is there's not a worse loan than the one you have. And this is going you're going down. You're going from $48,000 of debt to $10,000 of

debt. I'm going to take that deal every time >> even if even if the terms aren't great.

>> Well, yeah, because you're going to knock it out. You make 4,000 bucks a month. You knocked out the other debt. Why can't you knock out this $10,000 of debt very quickly?

>> That's true. Um, I I was uh cuz I was

trying to rent it as well to see if I could try to get money out of it. Um,

>> but every moment you wait, it's dropping in value because because you're in such a bad loan, right? The interest alone is $800 a month. >> So, you got time is not on your side, my friend. >> Listen, we're coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'd call our friends at Fairwinds and say, "Hey, I was just on the show with Jade and Ken, and here's my situation, and uh I

I've made progress. Will you guys help me out?" And and and and if they can help you out, they will. And to your to

Jade's point, then if we can sell this thing and then they take over the loan for the the the minimal amount you're going to have left, you can knock that out. So, you want to get rid of this because this is a depreciating asset.

That's why she's telling you that you got to get rid of it. Mhm. I would only And for anybody listening who's like, "Jay told him to get a loan. She told him to take it out on a credit card. She told him to take a bad loan." We're going down, people. We're going from 48 down to 10. We're not going up. He's not taking a loan to go into debt. He's taking a lesser loan to get out of debt.

So, that's the difference there for anybody who's trying to clock something that's [laughter] not there.

>> Yeah. Uh, and now what is this is this truck job, what's your opportunity to make more money than the 4,000 a month?

Um well in the beginning um it was like

that's what I was getting because uh I was in training. Um I also do all the services on his trucks cuz he owns um he

owns a trucking company. So I do all the mechanic work on them >> um for side money on cash when I am uh at Indianapolis um because it is long haul. >> So as we look forward how much more additional money can you make then the 4,000 >> 4 to 6,000 a month? I'd say take home.

>> All right. And long-term, is is this a great opportunity for you to get to the six figure range?

>> Uh, it seems like it. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Well, what's the lesson here uh that you've learned, you know, because a lot of times we'll teach out of this. I want people to hear from you today because you're you're sitting in this calling us with a pit in your stomach. So, what's the lesson for everybody else? >> Don't get the dealership uh markups.

Don't get the warranty stuff.

>> Um, don't buy new. Like, ask someone

older than you. >> Yeah, >> you know, I haven't.

>> Yeah. Uh, it's a I'm I'm definitely not doing that anymore. >> Yeah. >> How old are you, Jack?

>> I just turned 20. >> 20 years of age. >> You learned a great lesson at a young age, my friend. >> That's awesome. >> I wish I wish it didn't cost 60,000.

>> Yeah, that's all right. But it's a good lesson to learn. Hey, no one no one gets out if let me not no one few people get

out unscathed when you when you walk into the real world right you get out of college you start your life as an adult few Jack uh get out of this without

making major mistakes that's how we learn and for you I want you to look at this don't look at it as oh my gosh my mistake I ruined my life just look at it as some research you did you did a little bit of research and you found out that buying an RV to live in or buying anything that goes down in value is not a good idea. Now you can stick that in your pocket and keep it as a knowledge base for later. >> Yeah, I love it. Makes me think of the old song.

>> What?

>> Hit the road, Jack. And don't you come back. No more. No more. No more. Hit the road, Jack. That's what he's saying to debt. >> That's good. >> Yeah. Come on. You know, sometimes I think of these old school things. Now, if Rachel were next to me, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about. >> I thought you were going to say something totally different. >> No. Hit the road, Jack. I like it. He got on the road in the 18-wheeler. He's getting after it. He's 20 years of age.

You learned his lesson. I love his lessons. He did a great job, America.

You You heard Jack. And uh he's going to be okay. He's going to do great. He's only 20 years of age. You learned a big lesson. Now he's on the road to being debtree.

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[music]

[music]

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. So glad you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside 88825-5225 is the phone number. 88825-5225.

We go next to San Jose, California. Jeff

is there. Jeff, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, yeah, me and my fiance, we're

we're about a million dollars in debt right now. And we kind of most of it

student loan debt, but we still have a million dollars. We just don't know how to really tackle. >> Oh my goodness. >> Is this What type of degrees did you guys have? >> Yeah, >> we're we're both dentists, so I guess that's a good thing. Kind of.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I can tell you're fired up by that. [laughter] Bless your heart.

>> Yes. Are you making money? Like what are you guys making every year?

>> Uh so I what we're told when we go into

this is we'll be able to pay it off.

Don't worry. We make about

>> uh probably average 170 a year.

>> That's what you guys are actually paying yourself? >> Yes. Before taxes. Before taxes.

>> Oh my gosh. 170 gross. And And are you

separate practices?

Uh, we are currently, but we're probably

going to group in together and and just try to grow, I guess.

>> Did you say 170 each or combined? Okay.

Okay. >> 170 gross each, which that's not bad.

>> Yeah. And you're living in Okay. Well, San Jose is expensive. That's a expensive part of the country. >> What is your debt? Break it down for Jade. Let's go you first. You're the one on the phone and you're not married yet.

So, what's your debt?

Uh about let's see 450,000

right now in all student loan.

>> Okay. And no other debt.

>> Luckily we're both pretty good on that side. >> Okay. Pretty good or good?

>> Good. >> How long How [laughter] long you been How long have you been practicing?

>> Um about a year now. We just kind of We just came out of school. It's just kind of a nervous thing to be a million dollars in debt. just >> and how no listen brother this is real and I I I I oh this makes me so mad on

your behalf. Not mad at you, >> but but people are just selling this and now you're facing it. It's like staring down the barrel of a gun right now. I can feel it all over you.

>> And and well, here's the thing I'm asking about. You're only a year into this based on I don't know if they teach you any business skills. Probably not.

But >> unfortunately, they don't. >> They don't. any sense uh of of of how

big your practice is uh in in in its

first year? Are you small for first year? Are you mediumsized? Do you have any sense of that?

>> That's I would say we're probably small getting to medium hopefully by the end of this by the end of this build. So, >> do you know any dentists at all that are very successful?

>> Huh? Yes, I do.

>> Are you in contact with them on a regular basis to go, "How did you grow your business?" >> No, >> you need to be. >> I'm not. >> You need to be. I'm not kidding you.

Jay's going to give you some financial advice, but I was leading you this because let me tell you something. They don't teach you how to run a business.

They teach you how to take care of teeth.

But taking care of teeth is not enough to be a successful dentist. You have got to know how to get people in the chair.

>> Yeah, that's right. And I want you on the phone. I'm going to give you as a gift of mine, Christian, at the end of this call. I want to give him the proximity principle.

Uh it's worth a quick read. You get the audio book if you want that. We'll give you whatever version you want. But I want you to be in touch with successful dentists, and I mean successful.

And I want you telling them, I need your best advice. What would you say to me where I'm at right now about growing my business? and try to replicate this with two or three other successful dentists.

>> And the more you pay yourself, >> the easier it is to do what Jade's going to tell you. I just wanted to give you that you've got to be like a And she's got to be the same way. If you guys combine practices, this can't be like we we're married and we have to No, you both are like >> you're the most >> I don't want to say desperate dentist we've ever seen, but it's like you got to get creative in the community and be competitive so that everybody's coming to you to get their teeth cleaned.

>> Okay. Can I ask a question? And and this is both to Ken and you, Jeff. So, you you come out of dental school, you've got all the goods to be able to to practice.

Uh, I'm working for someone else, but we're working on a contract to hopefully

partner. >> Is that going to cause you to have to go into more debt? Cuz that's what I I'm trying to get a sense of what your next plan [laughter] is because I don't want you to go into more debt. >> And that's why we're trying to hold off because more debt practice. >> No, you got to do your own practice, man. I thought that's what we were talking about. You can't go into debt.

It's not worth it. >> No. Like you got to you got you got to work for someone else until you can afford to do whatever the next step is.

>> Is your income fixed though after all that big speech I gave. Is your income fixed or are you able to go recruit new patients and get some of that? >> No, not fixed. >> So you so you can benefit from hustling like I told you to do. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. That's good news. >> That's all I was trying to get at. And I don't want you to go into any more debt until this is cleaned up because again you're what you're realizing now is true. Uh yes, you have agency over this,

but there's no guarantees and there's no guarantees at how quickly this will go.

And so going into further debt, I would not advise that. Looking at the numbers, the the hard part for me is you are in an expensive area. What are you paying?

Like what's the what's the housing situation? Are you renting? Do you own a place? What is it? >> We're going to we're going to be owners because it doesn't it almost doesn't make sense to rent because then we're just throwing that away from the math. What are you doing right now? What's the situation now? >> About 4500 a month >> for your place. Or are you guys together already? >> Together? >> You're already together. >> It'll be 4,500. Yep.

>> Okay. >> To rent. But to buy it's the same.

>> Yes. But you're going into debt to get it. You're adding more debt to your name. >> We will be.

Yes. >> And you're tied to that. like you you got to pay it and now you're adding expenses to your life as well. You can't afford to do that.

You need to be living as cheaply as possible. And if it's the same price uh per month, it's not really the same price because your complex or whatever is paying for yard and garbage and all those things. So, I don't want to add weight to you of having to replace an AC or having to replace a roof or having to do you see what I'm saying? Um so, that's or adding insurance, you know, all that stuff is really expensive.

And so I would continue to rent. You're not throwing money down the drain. You are buying yourself time until you can truly afford to buy.

>> And I'm going to throw in here, I'm going to challenge you to get a much much better rent situation. Just try.

Find a place over an old lady's garage.

I say that all the time, but I'm telling you, I don't think you should guys should be paying anywhere near 4,500 a month. Not now. You guys are so broke.

>> You need to be you almost need to be staying in a place where they're paying you. [laughter] >> Jeff, you you you're going to have to fight, Jeff. You're going to have to fight hard because the truth is you guys have got these shiny degrees. You're in a great profession where there's the potential to make a lot of money. And the people around you, probably the people that you're working with, they're coming in with their Taho and their Cadillacs and their Teslas and they get expensive salads and juices for lunch.

>> You don't do that. You eat lean cuisine >> and you drive a Ford tourist. [laughter] >> And I I would prescribe a lot I would prescribe a lot of fasting for this couple. It's the new It's the new craze.

It's a biblical principle and I think it's got some financial advantages here.

Y'all need to try fasting three days at a time. You're going to look great, [laughter] but you can't even afford to buy cold cuts.

>> Yeah, >> Carl Budding. Do you remember?

[laughter] >> I don't know. Listen, Jeeoff, I don't know if you remember when I was coming up, >> the cheapest cold cuts you could buy.

>> We're older than these these youngsters.

Okay, >> but in all seriousness, Jeeoff, listen.

Um, you have got to reduce your living expenses right now. That's one of the biggest raises that you could give yourself. So, I'd be as soon as this rental term is up or whatever's going on, I would be looking to slash those costs. I mean, big time.

>> Uh, if even if I got a driveaways at this point, I'd rather pay gas.

>> You know, y'all ride together. Uh, it's called public transportation.

>> Everything's on the table now, right Jay? >> Everything. You get you a bus pass, it's on and popping. [laughter] >> It's the truth, man. It's like, and by the way, you're brown bagging it and you're recycling the bag. [laughter] Oh yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? That thing's going to be all crinkled. >> You rinse out the ziplockc bag and you got to dry it out and use it again.

>> Yeah. Like y'all put the wa and broke. I

mean yikes. [laughter] This is the Ramsy show.

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Welcome [music] back to the Ramsay Show alongside the incomparable, fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is8825-55225

if you want to jump in. 888255225.

Sam is up in Birmingham, Alabama. Sam, how can we help today?

Hey guys. So, I wanted to know if you would honestly recommend that I start with a $1,000 a month emergency fund and

um and why uh after kind of reading you

off some stats here.

>> So, I have a 30 I have a 30% interest

rate on a $33,000 car loan. Uh I have 9K

in back taxes owed, 5K in credit card debt, nothing. My ex-girlfriend has 50K

in credit card debt that I kind of want to help her out with. >> Your ex-girlfriend? >> And on top?

>> Uh, unfortunately. Yeah.

>> And you want to help her with the debt?

>> Yeah. Wow. >> Sorry. I just that that >> really nice guy. I'd like to know more.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Why are we doing this?

>> Well, you know, she's uh it was a six-year relationship. Um I lost her

last Q4. Uh I was pushing myself too

hard. finally burnt out after after uh

about 10 years of extremely hard work.

And um I just feel responsible for a lot

of that. I'm sure some of it's mine. I'm sure a good bit of it might be mine.

>> You used her card. You used her card sometimes.

>> Well, we would together, you know, like it was a um like she would help out with

like I I don't know. I think some of I think my uh car insurance for example is on the credit card >> things like this, right? >> You think so? You don't even know.

>> Listen, >> how does that change your opinion?

>> Does it change your opinion? >> I'm going to say something really controversial right now. >> Oh, I'm very excited. >> She probably rode in your car lots of times. Does she need to help you pay off your car?

[laughter] >> You know what I'm saying?

>> You pro she may, you know, your credit card debt. You may have paid for some things for her. I think I think what it

sounded like I don't know but it sound you said she got away. It sounds like you're still recovering from this.

>> He's dealing with guilt. >> You still care for her. You might feel some guilt. Obviously you still care for her but I would I would not feel any

obligation to pay 50k to an ex. Is she

asking for money?

>> Um not well not really. No.

>> Do you want to know what I think? Do you want to know what I might think as your older sister who cares for you?

>> Okay, >> this is like when you go on a date with somebody. I think this was from Seinfeld and he would leave something in her apartment on purpose so he would have a reason to come back and knock on the door. >> Brilliant move. >> Yeah, I remember. >> I feel like this is a reason for you to come back and knock on the door.

>> Yeah. Well, I love her. I mean >> Oh, >> and >> Oh, you're not you're not you're not ready to let go. If you could dedicate a song to her right now, what would you dedicate? >> Oh, great question, Sam. Take this seriously. What is it?

>> Take this. Uh, well, so listen, there's too many to count. Um, I'm writing uh I'm writing letters about every day.

>> Oh, I'm sorry.

>> Situation. Look, I know that's the biggest debt, but this 30 this 30% interest rate on this $33,000 car loan

uh is really bugging me. I didn't know what that meant when I signed the contract. I thought it meant 30% of the

uh car's value in total. I didn't know that that was like appreciating. I didn't know that that was every year it goes >> 30%. >> I thought you said 3% when you first said it. It's 30%. >> No, no, no, no. It's 30%. And it's a

it's an Italian car. Like break down.

>> I'm sick to my stomach for you, Sam. You You have to take Oh my goodness. What's the snowball? Where are we at on the snowball? Did we get there?

>> No, because your initial question, I'm sorry I got hung up on your your love situation. The initial question was, "Do I really want him to go down to $1,000 of an emergency fund?" Um, >> yeah. Is that where I start or where do I start here, guys? >> Yeah, that is where to start. So, let me just go through um the baby steps with you right quick, Sam. Um just so you see how this all fits. And how long have you been listening to the show? Are you a new listener?

>> Uh I'm a new I'm a new listener. Yeah, you guys are on uh on my YouTube shorts.

>> Okay, so you only get bits and pieces on that. Thanks for watching. But you only get bits and pieces. So the first step, this is seven baby steps for you to achieve financial peace is what we're talking about.

So you do them all of that. I'm saying you do them consecutively in order. That's the first thing. You got to do them in order.

If you jump around, it won't work and you'll be wasting your time. The first step is you get $1,000 saved. So, if you don't have any money saved, you got to go out, work, sell stuff, and get it done. If you do have money saved, you drop it down to $1,000.

next whatever money you had left over is going to go to baby step two, which is you paying off all of your debt except your mortgage. This is all the consumer debt.

Okay? And you do this using the debt snowball method. Debt snowball is we list all the debts smallest to largest.

You pay minimum payments on everything and then any extra money goes to the smallest debt. Does that make sense?

>> Yep. >> Okay. After that, now we stack up that emergency fund. 3 to 6 months of expenses is what we're looking for. You get to decide. Is it three, four, five, or six after that?

>> Wait. [clears throat] Uh so, so number three is uh three or four,000

a month in expenses.

>> Three to six months of basic living expenses. So, just for round numbers, let's say let's say your number let's say you had $5,000 worth of expenses every month. What we're saying is is that's three months is 15,000. 6 months

is 30,000. You tracking?

>> Yep. >> All right. So, that's what we mean by an emergency fund. We we give you the kind of the we say three months is a minimum.

So, that'd be 15,000 on this example.

That's what she's talking about. >> That's right. And it's it for baby step three, it's really about your basic budget. It's not three to six months of paychecks necessarily. It's what it takes to make your house go on a basic level. Okay. Baby step 3B. It's B

because it's not the case for everybody.

Is if you're looking to buy a house, now is when we start saving up a down payment for the house. Okay. After that, you go to baby step four. You could do 3B and four at the same time if you want to. You're putting 15% of your gross income into retirement funds. So that's your 401k, Roth IRA, that sort of thing.

Then after that, if you have kids, you're planning for kids, you can put an amount of your discretion towards kids college, we say a 529 or an ESA is where you would do that. And then finally, baby step six. If you have extra money in your budget, again, at your discretion, you're throwing extra money towards paying off your house early.

Most people who do that pay off their house in like 10, 12 years. So that's

And then finally, baby step seven. You just live like no one else. You give, you're a happy person, and you got no cares, right? So that's kind of the big picture. >> Cars with cash. >> Hey. Okay. >> But let Can we talk about I'm dying right now. You did such a good job. Can we talk about this man's car? >> Yeah. Tell us. >> What's the car worth, Sam? >> Paint us a picture.

>> Oh man, the car is like 21K. I bought it for a very I think Dave will appreciate this. Um, so like I'm 29. I I have a

online business and I bought an Alfa Romeo because it was the coolest car you could get under 30K.

>> Love. How much did you pay for it?

>> Yeah. So, uh, all in taxes, I had no

down payment. It was about 33,000. So, that's the loan I'm paying off. >> Okay. >> I was like, yeah, extra. >> So, it's worth 21K.

>> Yeah. Uh, I think I can get a little more for it. I think I might be able to get like 24 26 if I'm

>> I mean, you got to you I think you got to sell this car right now at 30% interest rate, Jade. I know that's extreme, but >> He said it's 3%. 3%.

>> I thought he said 30. Is it?

>> No, it's 30. It's 30.

>> You asked that twice and he said 30.

>> Oh, I t I R T1.

>> Listen, I just turned 41 in my old age.

I can't hear you. >> He's paying 30% on this car.

>> That's painful. Yeah, you got to get out today. >> Like, you got to sell it. >> Do you have any money saved?

>> No, I can get some money this month, though. I mean, the income's good.

>> Yeah, you got to find you got to find at least $10,000 so you can get out of this and get yourself a little beater car to drive around until you can save up for a better one. So, >> yeah. But is that is that you know, here's the reason I bought this car. It was the coolest car under 30k. And >> what do you make? You know, it doesn't matter how cool it is. >> What do you make? >> Well, I'm 90 $9,200 a month consistently

for two years. The last Q4, I was paying myself [music] about 14K a month.

>> Really going overboard with the whiskey and the the oyster. >> Here's what I want you to do. Listen, what a life. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to apply that 9,200 to

get out of debt. I want you to quickly save up what you can to get out of this car. Buy something cheap in cash. It's only temporary. You're going to be out of debt in a year and then you're going to save up and you're going to buy the same car in cash.

>> All right. Jade and I are going to look into some whiskey and oysters ourselves.

>> I know that's right. >> For after the show. [laughter] Uh we'll see what the order looks like, but we'll be right back. This is the Ramsay Show.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

[music] So glad you're with us today as we help you win with your money, win in your profession, and win with your relationships. 88825-5225.

[music] Jade, I'm a little excited about it and uh I I don't naturally celebrate these things like I should. Super excited.

I've been dreaming about a show concept for a long time and we've been working on it as a team. The team's done a great job. It's called Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman >> and it has People ask, has it replaced the Ken Coleman show? Yes, because it is a very different format. Imagine

uh you're sitting in on a deep dive

conversation with somebody who's a thought leader, someone who has done something extraordinary in their lives.

They are a man or woman of success

>> and you get to be a part of the audience and you're sitting around with us asking a question. Well, that is the format live format. We record it and then also

we have a virtual format where people can zoom in, if you will. So, we're bringing the audience >> to the front row seat. That's the concept. It's on YouTube now, uh, or wherever you get your podcast. Uh, new episode comes out every Tuesday morning.

If you want to get better personally, move up professionally, and lead effectively, those are the conversations. >> Wow. How do you how do you source your like guests? How do you pick how do you select your guests? Because you had some wonderful guests. >> Yeah. I mean, some really fun guests.

And the way it goes down is you know we're selecting people within those categories. So for instance >> people that can help experts can help out in the area of personal growth. So that would be an expert maybe on sleep or nutrition or exercise. Okay.

>> Right. And so holistic we're mixing it up. Right. And then of course we have people that are professional uh gurus that can help you on certain soft skills like we just had Charles Doohig.

We just recorded that. It'll come out soon. Pulitzer Prizewinning author of the book Super Communicators. >> Wow.

>> So, we're talking about the three types of conversation. >> So, how do we use those types of conversation to win in our profession, but also win at home? >> That's so helpful. >> And then, of course, leadership experts.

So, it's very intentional between those three buckets of content, if that makes sense. So, >> well done, Ken. >> Thank you. I'm really excited about it.

It's beautiful, by the way, if you want to check it out on YouTube. The team did a great job with the set. Looks really, really fun. So, uh, the front row seat is the name of the show.

Front row seat with Ken Coleman. You can get it on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Let's go to Brianna who's joining us in Dallas, Texas.

>> Hi. Yes, I have a question. Uh, well, I need some advice. Um, me and my husband

are thinking about selling our home uh

because we're just drowning in debt and we just don't have any other option to try to get out of it but to sell our home. Um so

yes that's >> what is what is what has created that scenario where you don't believe you have any other options.

>> Give us some details.

>> Uh well we are just drowning in debt and

um I know y'all always sell say sell the cars and we looked into it. We owe um in

one of our cars we owe like 9,000.

>> Okay. and we we tried to see if we could

sell it, but we will be under. It's really not worth selling. It's just I guess right now we just better off paying it off. And the other one is 12,000.

And um that one as well is negative. So

we're like, okay, we might as well just try to hang on to those and try to pay those off. And everything else is loans and credit cards, student loans.

>> Go through the other ones. Go through the other amounts for us so we can get a picture of this. So, the $9,000 car, the $12,000 car, what else?

>> And then loans, like personal loans, we have like 20,000. >> Okay. >> Credit cards is around like 35 to 35 to

like 40,000. >> Okay. >> Student loans is my husband's is like 73,000. >> Okay. How much are yours?

>> I don't have any. >> Good. >> And my uh we the IRS is like 9,500.

>> Okay. And then I have medical bills that's like 3,000.

>> Okay. Okay. >> What's your combined income?

>> Uh combined income is like uh 10,500 to

like 11,000 >> per month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And have you added up um if you don't know, it's okay. But if I were to ask you on the spot, like how much does this cost you in payments every month?

Do you know the number to that? like the debt alone is like 4,000 probably a

little bit more. >> Okay. So, you're paying 4,000 in payments. And then tell me um what's your mortgage? Tell me about the mortgage. Tell me what you owe on it. >> The mortgage the mortgage is like uh 31

3100. >> Okay. And that's what you're paying per

month. But tell me how much you bought the house for.

>> The house we bought it for 386.

And what do you what's it worth >> right now? It's worth uh like 3.85 3.87.

>> Well, sweetheart, if you sell the house, that's not going to give you guys any much money at all. >> I I know we owe 340 on it right now,

>> right? But after you pay your realtor, there's very little of this that is going to actually solve this problem.

>> Right. That's when we were like, "Okay, should we just try to fight for it or should we try to sell it and try to at least get out of it?" >> Jade's got something to tell you.

>> The only thing I was we were thinking is cuz my husband drives like an hour and a half commute to uh his job.

>> Okay. >> He wanted to >> to uh he wanted to move closer to his job because it's it's a long drive.

>> Could you rent for less money in that location? Sorry, Jay. >> That's okay. >> Um, the rent's probably going to be like 2,000. >> Yeah. Not much difference. >> Not much difference. Yeah. >> Well, no. You said you're paying 3100 per month. >> Oh, yeah. That is That is actually a huge difference.

>> 3,100 plus H uh the HOA.

>> Oh, that's not including HOA. What's your HOA?

>> Uh 250 every quarter.

>> Okay. Every quarter. Okay.

>> I would consider moving, Jake, in this situation because that's a long way to commute. Number one. Well, there's a couple of things. You got that big commute. I was going to ask you, is it an hour and a half each way or is that combined? Because if it's 40 minutes, that's not as big of a deal, but >> No, it's each way.

>> Girl, yes. I would definitely move.

>> He has to drive into the office uh three

days out of the week. So, two days he'll work from home, >> but three days out of the week he has to drive to the office. >> It's still a lot. 3 hours driving in a day is a lot to get to work. Um, so that's one that's one green light. It's not the biggest reason cuz like you said, it's not like he's going in every day, but it is a reason. The biggest reason for me to consider getting out of this house is because it's it's more than 25% of your take-home pay.

>> And at this point, you need every dollar

that you can get your hands on. Now, >> right, >> there is a thought here and and and you guys need to sit and talk about this cuz there's a thought where I go, okay, if you guys really start side hustling, if you start picking up your income, there could be a world when this debt is over that this is not 20 that this is 25% of your takehome. You see what I'm saying? That you raise your income and it becomes something that you can keep around.

Today though, >> it's really a problem. So, I would say your homework to sit down with your spouse tonight would be to say, "What are all the things we can do to make money? What are your opportunities that are directly related to your job and what are mine that are do you do you both work?" >> Yes, we both work.

income. >> I try to work overtime. I work at a a

daycare. So, I try to work uh extra like

overtime whenever I can. >> How consistent can that happen? Is that like a daily thing or is it like a couple times a month thing? >> It varies. It It varies. It depends on the teachers. Like I just found out I have CO so I have to be out all week.

>> Got you. So, what I'd be looking for when I'm looking for a side hustle, I'm looking for something I can count on.

That's the whole point. So, I'd be looking if I'm going to spend the extra hours working, I want something that's like clockwork. I can get it. I can go bust my butt and do it and it's there.

So, you both need that. Um, and then if something if you know, >> uh, part-time pops up at the at the job and you have the the leverage, you know, the place in your schedule to do it, you do that, too. But right now, I want here's my my main job and a go-to side

hustle that's always there. I can work it every day, every weekend. Got it. So, that's you guys' job to to come up with that tonight. And then after that, have you made a budget?

I tried that dollar uh thing. I just downloaded I did like this free trial thing, but I'm gonna have to cancel it because it's like $18 a month.

>> Okay. >> Y'all need to stop borrowing money.

>> Yeah, you got to stop borrowing. Ken is right. >> Yes, Ken is right. Like you got in this mess because y'all are trying to do too much and you don't have enough money for it. So, uh if you can't afford every

dollar to get a budget, you better get it out on paper. >> You can afford it. You spend more on pizza delivery. Okay, you can afford it.

>> This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Dustin is going to start us off here in New York. Dustin, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on?

>> Question. Well, I have a question about housing and budgeting. So, let me give you a little bit of context. My wife and I are in our early 30s.

We've been working the baby steps. Uh, we've been married about 2 years and at about the year and a half mark, we paid off we finished paying off around 70,000 worth of debt. >> Way to go. >> Oh, thank you.

Um, and so we currently live in a one-bedroom co-op in the Hudson Valley, which costs us around $1,600 a month.

budget, we're able to, uh, save between $3 and $4,000 a month. And we've been doing that since we got married. Um, and so we're about to have we have a seven-month-old now, and in the coming May, we're going to have our second child. And so, that's a lot of people to put in a one-bedroom apartment. So to

yeah to get to a bigger place it would be about $2,400 a month at least in this

area just because it's the Hudson Valley. >> Um and so and our child care costs are likely to go up in the coming August um

once paternity and maternity leave is done. And so, um, my question is like,

do we do we stick it out here? Uh, because our long-term plan is to move out of state in about two years once my mother-in-law retires and so we're saving up for a down payment. But in the meantime, >> that's my question. >> Ind Indiana. We want to go to Indianapolis >> in two in about two years.

>> In about two years. >> How much money have you got saved up?

Um, so we currently have around 17,000

uh saved up. Um, we just finished paying

off all of our debt, so we're like we're just getting started on that saving process. >> But you're saving a lot per month, which is great.

>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And our living situation really helps with that. And, you know, we got family nearby and all that. So, the location is good. It's just the the square footage is not great. >> Yeah. Um, and so, um, you know, do I do

I sell our co-op in the the meantime so

that during that two-year waiting period, we can have a, you know, more expensive but larger place, or do we just kind of stick it out in the the onebedroom with four people?

>> I mean, if I would what I would do is I'd stick it out for as long as I possibly can because the more that you can save on your living is the more money that you can save for a potential down payment. And I don't have to tell you you're you need a lot of money saved for a down payment these days, right?

So, the more that you can get uh saved

in the next two to two and a half years, that would be my number one goal. Matter of fact, I'd run it back and say, "Okay, um based on Indianapolis home prices and based on what we want, >> which I got you over here whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready." >> Yeah. We're going to plug that in and then we're going to run it back and say, "Okay, what must be true for us to move in?" And then that's the that that is a s the the silver bullet of what we're saving for in the next two two and a half years.

So can >> I'm going to I'm your assistant. I'm giving you some numbers here. >> I don't my computer died so I don't have it. It's >> okay.

I got you. >> All right. You got it. >> That's what I'm here for.

>> All right. So in Indianapolis an average price >> for a three-bedroom home. I did threebedroom cuz it's going to feel like a castle to him. >> Love it.

>> Um Oh, I love hearing the little one in the background. That's real. We like that, folks. Um >> 230 to 299.

230,000 to 299,000 some specifics if you look at Marian County >> uh because I typed in greater Indianapolis >> so I'm giving so this is just what this is the homework you need to do my friend but you got Marian County median price is 229 Hendricks County median price is

303 uh Johnson County median price is

298 >> so let let's surrounding so you 230 to

300,000 And then let's add a little inflation to that. Let's say 240, right?

That's what I would say because this is 2 and a half years from now. So you say 240 and then knowing that the what you're attempting to do is is put 25% down. Then you can go in and plug in estimated taxes and insurance and all of that. And that number is what you need to be >> Well, I got him I got him at If you guys continue to save, if I was listening correctly, you were saving 3 to 4,000 a month.

Mhm. >> Uh you guys can have a shot at getting close to 100,000 just your savings, not including any equity in the co-op, right? >> Correct. Yeah.

>> Uh we think based upon comps that I've run in the area that I can get around 50

for uh 50 after the sale. Um and so that

brings us pretty close to that uh 20%

down payment with what we have saved.

Great. And we're targeting a house in Indianapolis around the 300,000 uh mark.

>> Correct. >> Love that. >> That's very doable. And I'm with Jade.

Then >> listen, the babies don't know. This is going to be tough on you and mom.

>> But you know what? Two little babies.

These are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone for sure. >> And you're going to be like, "We did it." And I think since we're not asking the kids to suffer, >> you guys aren't really suffering, but it is a form of suffering. And I I'm I'm

with my partner on this one. She listen she and Sam I brag about this. She and Sam had one car for how long?

>> 10 years. >> And And how many years after you actually had the money to buy a car? >> Wow. Long. Let's see. We were done in 2018. I didn't buy a second car till we got here, which was 2022, >> which I don't recommend. [laughter] I think I think she's bananas. But she's the real deal. So I I'm with Jade. I

100% would suck it up. They're little ones. It's gonna be crazy anyway. Two

years is gonna fly when you got two babies. You know, >> I know. That's right. >> The days are long, but the years are short. >> That's right. >> And I'm with Jade 100%. I I'd tough it out and then make the triumphant entry into Indianapolis with a really, really nice down payment. And by the way, cost of living there, >> fantastic. So, man, you're going to feel like from Hudson Valley to the greater Indianapolis area.

>> Oh, man.

>> What a change. Unless >> looking forward to that. >> No, wait a second. [laughter] Hold on, Dustin. She's got an idea. >> No, it's not an idea. I I was just about to throw some bait into the water. Go for it. >> I was going to throw it. You said it's a really great cost of living there. And I was going to say unless unless everybody in New York gets spooked and starts going to places like Indiana and Florida and Tennessee.

>> Oh, we have some people raising their hands out there. >> You know what I'm saying? Indiana is the new Tennessee. >> Are y'all leaving? Are [laughter] y'all leaving upstate New York? I met you all earlier. Is that what you did? >> Yeah. >> See, that's what I'm saying. Now, I'm not trying to spook you, but I'm just saying the migration is real.

>> They're more mature. Can we say that they're a little bit more mature in age?

I'm just saying there are predictions being made. I'm just saying about another great migration. >> Oh, well, we'll see. >> We'll see. The times will tell.

>> Now's the time, folks. >> I thought I was setting you up. That's why I said I was putting a line in the water. >> No, I'm not going to take it. Well, I'll say this. I'll say this. I when people say they're going to leave this country based on some political change, number one, it's their right to say it. We saw a lot of celebs say it. A few actually did it. >> Instead, they just went to Indiana.

>> They went to England. >> Oh, I'm just kidding. >> The celebrities I'm thinking of. Yeah.

But, uh, you know, listen, are people going to leave over stuff like that? You better believe it. We saw massive migration from California. We saw it here in Middle Tennessee. Uh, certainly a lot of people moving to Florida. It's certainly going to happen, but I I don't think and I'm and my m my brother-in-law and sister-in-law live in Indianapolis, so I apologize ahead of time. Of all the places people are going to flee from New York, I don't think it's Indianapolis.

[laughter] And I'm not throwing shade at any of my friends. It's a nice area, sir. It's a lovely [laughter] area, but it's not on the top of anybody's list. Is that fair?

Even he's acknowledging me. He's like, "Well, you make a good point. Lovely place to live. Is it a top destination?

I don't think so. [laughter]

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Hey [music] folks, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is in studio with [music] me.8825-55225 is the phone number for us to coach you up. She'll be leading on the uh budgeting and what to do with the debt calls and I'm going to lead on how to make more money, how to move up in your professional life so we can make more money, more freedom. Uh that's the theme there. So, we'd love to hear from you.

And u uh how about a question from the Ramsay Network app, Jade? You up for one of those? >> Sounds good. Let's do it. >> All right. This is from Ann. She writes, "I'm engaged and my fiance just bought an RV >> for You ready for this? Hard swallow.

$240,000, but he's not sure how he's going to pay for operating it.

>> Yikes. >> What? I'm concerned that he may take a

loan out. So, he'll not only have a monthly payment, but also all the expenses and upkeep that go along with owning an RV. My question is, how do I

proceed? Because we plan to get married next year and we disagree on money issues. Yikes.

>> Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a big red flag.

Dude went and bought an RV.

>> I don't think I realized that RVs were this expensive. >> Oh, man. Yeah, >> that's a house. >> Oh, yeah. >> On wheels, basically. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but but doesn't go up in value, >> right? Dropping like a rock. Yeah. Drop

dropping like a rock. Okay. You should be concerned. The fact that she's concerned that he's going to take a loan out makes sense. He took a loan out for the RV, so yeah, he'll probably take a loan out for the upkeep. The biggest issue is they don't degree agree on the money issues. Ken, I don't know about you, I believe that money, it's one of

those big >> overarching themes you've got to be aligned on. It's money, politics, religion, and how you see raising your kids and family, that kind of thing. >> I agree. >> And so, >> I agree. >> This is a big one. Um, the best way I

think to call this out is just to sit them down and say, "Listen, here's what we've said our plans are together. We obviously plan to get married.

>> Um I I've started noticing that you and I have different views on how we view

money >> and how we view debt.

>> Um can you tell me a little bit more of how you see that playing out in the future? And maybe just kind of set them up with some questions. Hey, uh in the future when we want a car, what do you think we would do? Would we get would we try to save up in pay cash or do you think we would take out a loan? and just kind of ask him, learn more about what

he would say. And then you once you've

heard his response, then you come back and say, "Okay, well, here's my viewpoint. I think that if we were going to buy cars, I'd like to pay cash and here's why." And here, and then lay out your side and say, "I just want to have a clear conversation and see, is there a way that we can get on the same page with this because this this feels like it could cause problems down the line, and I don't want that for us." And you just have to have a hard conversation.

>> Yeah, I I agree with everything you said. I' I'd probably ratchet up the uh the the uh technique here.

>> Tell me. >> Yeah, I'm going to go with the uh he needs a text.

>> What do you mean? >> I'm going to tell you. >> You're going to text him the questions? >> No, I'm going to text him and say we need to talk. >> Ken, now you know that that strikes fear. If you didn't have bubbles in your tummy, when you receive that text, you will have >> You need bubbles. We need bubbles. This is a bubbles. This is a bubbles level conversation. >> Oh man. So you want to create uncomfortability going in.

>> He needs to know how serious it is.

>> Okay. >> This is not a manipulative power play.

It is a we need to talk. It's time to

define the relationship.

>> Ah >> because she says in this question, I am really concerned that we don't see eye to eye. And I think I agree with everything you said. I just would put some seriousness on it. She's not a threat. >> Serious sauce. Yeah. >> She's not manipulation. I'm just saying it needs to be I don't know that we

should be talking about getting married >> or no I don't know we shouldn't be talking about getting married >> if we can't get this >> we've got to press pause on this cuz this will break us down the road and this has nothing to do with my feelings for you I think it's that serious >> okay so let me >> I'm approaching this as if she were my daughter >> okay but here's here's let me push on this a little bit >> there we go this is why people show up >> let me push on this a little bit Okay.

>> I would be afraid because love goggles make you can make you change parts of yourself. >> Can you and this is embarrassing, but give me a real quick 15 second on what love goggles means. I think I know, but I'm not sure I've ever >> Love goggles are you see them and everything's perfect because you've got like these you don't notice their back hair. You don't notice you know the little things that you get married you'll start to notice, you know. Okay.

>> So, you think she's got love goggles?

She did. She doesn't now. No, she doesn't. But my point is, if he has love goggles on, if she makes it feel like an ultimatum, >> then he might change some of his answers in order to get what he want. And I'm not saying like maliciously or like in a diabolical way. I'm just saying that >> sometimes the pressure.

>> Yes. Because the truth is you are your best self when you're in your dating phase. You're your best like you're on your best behavior. And so he could be like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, honey. You know, we don't have to do debt." Duh.

>> So, you think my approach help me. How is my approach not how does she then

>> because I think if she makes it I think if she just makes it a conversation and we're talking she's more likely to get the real answer.

>> But if she puts the stress of we need to talk, we need to define this relationship. Then he could feel the need to be like, "Well, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No debt. No debt. That's fine. That's fine." But that may not be really where his heart is. That >> I know. Okay. So, okay. So, let's say I go with your approach. I'm not there yet. Okay, fair enough.

>> Let's say she has that conversation >> and and then there's no real there's no real outcome. >> Then I think she can ratchet it up. I think I would start. >> So, you okay with my You like my plan.

You just aren't ready to to push that button yet. >> Yeah, we're on we're on like level two and you were coming in hot on like medium high. [laughter] >> All right, that's fair. And I and I listen, I can now say I understand that.

But, you know, I was truly coming at it from >> if it's your daughter. If it's my daughter and she's having this conversation, she says, "Dad, what would you do?" I went, "Dad, I I pushed the dad button, everybody." >> Oh, >> Jade, thank you for pulling me off of it a little bit. >> If it was my daughter, I'd be like, "Let me go talk to him." >> Okay. Hello.

You just took me and said, "Hold my beer, and I'm going to I'm [laughter] going to kick the door down." All right. All right. Very good. Uh, but you get my point.

I I would say this.

>> Okay. >> Can Can we park it? Yeah, that's a good >> because here's why. You nailed it

>> on the things that cause marriages to to

splinter and unfortunately break. You you gave a whole list.

>> Kids, faith, politics, money.

>> Yeah. >> And excuse me. And to that point, we have a lot of new people that are joining this program all the time. >> Yes. I'm I'm parking it here because I

think it's important that we share with people why this actually happens. There are deepseated habits

>> that come from beliefs, the environment on all of those issues. You could pick any of this issues. We're only talking money right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But when when when you have two when you have two completely different value sets

and you mentioned love goggles, let's just talk about money goggles. >> Okay. If the two sets of goggles and the way you see money are so different,

>> it literally can cause chaos in your

relationship. True or false? Is that too strong of a statement? >> No, I think that's exactly right.

>> How does it cause chaos? >> Well, you know, think about it. One is uh let's let's filter it through the question. She is a person obviously a little bit more frugal. She sounds like she's debt averse. She sounds like she understands the value of keeping your income every month. And that might be because it all of that belief is because of how she's experienced the world up until this point. And then he's the opposite. I'm not saying he's a bad guy.

I'm just saying that his beliefs are based on how he's experienced the world up until this point. And when you want somebody to change what they believe

based on how they've experienced the world, that is a hard fought. That is a hard fought fight. >> Yeah. It's it's their default mode.

>> It's their default mode. So you can't, it's not just as simple as well change.

Well, I got to go back in and I got to figure out how do I feel about this and what does that mean about me because I've always operated like this because of this. So it's not just a surface level request. That's right. Hey, I don't want to use debt anymore.

Oh, okay. No problem. Like it's it's never that these are and that's why I say when it comes to these money issues, >> we do say Ken, >> sometimes it might sound a little bit flippant. Get on the same page with your money.

Yeah. And the point is, it's not a light switch that you just flip up or flip down one day.

>> I agree. And I would say on all of those issues, I think all those issues should come up in premarital counseling. Can I just put that out there? But I certainly believe money ought to. Just press pause. Don't get married until you get on the same page with this stuff. I think you're save yourself a ton of stress [music] and and and everything else. My goodness, it's that important.

So, just a little relationship thing. We talk about this relationships and money, folks. You just cannot untie those.

[music] They are tied together whether you like it or not. So, really good stuff. All right, quick break. Don't move. More calls. They're all lined up, folks. We're going to get to them. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.88255225

is the phone number. It's time for our question of the day. It comes to you by

and from our good friends, Why Refi? Why Rei refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment that you can afford with a low fixed interest rate you can you can't get anywhere else. So, this will help you stick to your budget and work your debt snowball. Go to yrefi.com today.

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may not be available in all states. Oh,

>> all righty then. You have to turn your microphone on. >> Yeah, that's how that works. >> You do.

Okay. Today's question comes from Tyrone in New Jersey. He says, "I work for a small company with less than 20 employees. Recently, I discovered that while my employer has been taking deductions from my check for my 401k, they have been holding the money and making a few small deposits into my account throughout the year and then one larger deposit at the end of the year." Huh.

Does this sound legal or unethical? And is it time to seek new employment?

>> Yesesh, >> that does not sound right. That

>> it does not sound right at all.

>> Smells very fishy. Um yeah, because you're missing out on time in the market if they were not investing the money into the funds that you chose. That >> this needs to be dealt with instantly.

>> Instantly. >> Like sitting down with lots of leaders going, "Hey, look, I'm immediately I got questions. Don't go in accusing, but a lot of questions and good questions. Why

has this been happening? >> Yeah. >> Uh, you said sorry. That implies a mistake. Has it been remedied? What are you going to do about all the back stuff? There's a lot. >> What's the tone? I need to know tone because I I'm having a strong tone.

>> Uh, I'm going to say serious tone.

>> A serious tone. I'm not messing around.

>> Oh, yeah. Very serious. The qu Let the uh I like that you asked this. So, I want to set this up. Well, >> okay. >> The questions themselves

>> take care of the tone. In other words,

>> you don't have to be accusatory, angry. Um, a really pointed, specific

line of questioning. >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. >> Pre-thought out. Maybe right there in front of you on your lap. Yes. >> Or on your phone.

>> And in the moment, the you're serious.

Serious face. We're not joyful about this. >> No. No smiles. >> No amiiableness. It is seriousness. But I think the questions asked properly

make it very serious. They go, "This is a person who did their homework. This is a person who has follow-ups. There is a line of questioning.

They they feel as though they are on a witness stand." And that's how it should be. You don't have to be ugly and accusatory because you're hoping to get to the bottom of this and get an actual solution. But by doing this, you're going to find out really quick if this is a fishy situation or if this is a fixable situation. That would be my take.

What do you think?

Yes. Like >> Yeah. >> That that way. >> First question. How did this happen?

>> Yeah. Oh, okay. >> And stop talking. >> Yes. >> How did this happen? That's a serious question. Then the followup is has it

been fixed?

Will this ever happen again?

>> What happens to the money that I earned that should have been put like these questions? These questions are going to imply a whole lot of seriousness. That that would be my posture. >> And and and >> spoken from a guy, by the way, who's not done it well.

All right. I mean, cuz I get it. I get how the heat should be pretty hot under the hood there. It should be steaming.

Uh but can we keep that in and can we ask the questions that way? That helps us hopefully get some real responses. >> I hope so. Yeah.

This this would be this needs to be dealt with quickly.

>> I don't think I I mean don't get me wrong this is not the type of thing that would ever happen here but let's just pretend I looked at my investments and said wait a minute like my thing didn't go in there. I mean I I would go to my leader and or you know who's over HR or

whatever and say hey here's what I discovered. >> I I I would not be lawyering at this point. I'd be what doing what you're doing, which is asking serious questions. >> This is the thing though. They've already apologized and so essentially we have an admission of >> we have an admission of guilt here.

>> At this point, wait for the next round and if I see it again, cuz my thing is [clears throat] if I see it again, then yeah. >> Well, I'm sorry. I should have done a better job asking you. If you know you've got to go have this conversation with the leader, which they do, I I might consult an employment law. >> Yeah, I probably would at that point.

>> So, I know what should be. Mhm. Oh, that's This is Yeah, this is very >> Give me a [laughter] >> They They Listen, I don't want to say do anybody wrong, but they took a loan.

>> It smells over there. >> That was a loan. >> I get it. Let's go to Denver, Colorado next, where David awaits. David, how can we help?

Hi, I'm starting to work the well I'm working baby step 2 and I have been

using a credit card for all of my like day-to-day purchases and I pay that credit card off every month but I'm looking to stop using it and I'm just a little hesitant to like start carrying a balance so that I have like the money to

just use the debit card for other things and then like have to carry that as I pay that one off too instead of just like paying it off and I'm not sure like is this something where I should like wait a month or two and save up the extra money or should I just go and carry the balance and pay it off as quickly as possible?

>> So, okay, let me filter it through the baby steps. So, when you're paying off debt using the debt snowball method, what we say to do is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you're satisfying whatever your your debts are for that month. You're paying, you know, you're doing the things on your budget that are necessary for that month. whatever they may be.

I mean, everybody pays their rent or mortgage, you pay your groceries, you pay your minimums on your debt, and then the extra money after that goes to paying off your smallest debt.

that the month requires and which for you that's going to feel some type of way because you're used to doing that with your credit card. So, essentially, you're used to taking all of your income and throwing it to your credit card to paying it off. And this month you're going to go, "No, I'm going to take my income and I'm going to use it on my life." And what the margin is I'm going to use to pay off that credit card. And what you're going to discover there when you do that is what has been true all along, which is that money was debt and you were borrowing it and now you owe it and have to pay it back.

That's what that's going to feel like.

Does that make sense?

>> Yep. >> Yeah. Listen, I'm proud of you. I'm glad that you're see you've seen the light.

you've had that moment. What caused you to to go, you know, I don't want to do this anymore?

>> Um,

it it just like it's a little hard to plan like when you're the bill is

finished on the 20th of the month, but you don't pay for it until the 15th of the next. And >> so, it seems a lot e more simple to manage the other way.

>> Well, listen, I want you to have every dollar. that's going to be a great way for you to make this transition into

using your own money. And I let me just say and and Ken, I know you can speak to this. When you have been a person who you've let credit cards run their scam on you, which what credit cards do is they say, "Hey, we'll make your life easier for you." Uh, easy in the word in

quotes. But what it's really does is it steals your confidence to handle your own money. That's what it does. because you have this crutch that you've been relying on that's always there. It's debt, but you don't feel like it's debt.

And then the moment you remove it, suddenly most of us are like, "Oh my gosh, I don't even know what to do with my own income." It feels exposing.

>> And so that you're going to feel that for a moment and then you're going to go, "Oh, wait. I actually make money and I I work hard for my money and I should have the dignity of managing it and

spending it in and of my control.

Okay, >> there you go. And what will change is I was waiting for him to respond because you know the the emotion there. >> He's he's licking his wounds. >> He really is. But [laughter] you know, I love that he told you why this why the call. Why the change?

>> The stress of living off of that credit

card way that a lot of people do that.

Yeah. >> Well, I'm going to use it for this and then pay it off. And for him, he's not wired for that. >> Yeah. >> And I'm just thinking about how light he's going to feel. >> Yeah. you know, when he just starts to do it this way, the way you've told him, and he goes, "Okay, now I am in full control. I don't have that angst, >> and you're not behind a month." When you do that, you're always behind a month.

And so, what happens? You put everything on your American Express. And then what happens if you lose your job? Now, you just owe the money, but you didn't get your paycheck. >> Yeah. >> So, there's there's method to the madness, people. >> Good stuff. Thanks for the call, David.

It's going to work. Take a deep breath.

Maybe three or four, and it's going to be great. All right. Don't move. Quick break. More of your calls coming up.

She's Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[music]

[music]

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is in studio with me. 88 8255225.

Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to coach you up. Let's go to Brandon in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Brandon, how can we help today?

>> So, I just enrolled in an HSA this year and I'm wondering if it makes sense.

>> Okay. >> I had a couple of uh

a couple hospital visits pop up this year and I'm anticipating the same thing next year. >> Okay. So, even with the compounding interest, if I'm spending thousands of dollars each year, does it make sense to

still hold on to the HSA?

>> Um, well, it depends. I mean, when you do know that you're going to have qualified medical expenses, it could make sense to pay for them through the HSA. Um, and in that way, you're not you're not taxed on that money. Um, so

that could make sense for you. So, you're thinking about it more um through the lens of your actual health purchases. You're not thinking about it as an investment vehicle, which a lot of our callers do. Correct.

>> Well, no. I am looking at it as an investment vehicle. I'd like to have it, you know, in retirement.

>> Oh, okay. Well, in that case, an HSA is

a great idea if you know that you don't

go to the doctor much. If you're willing to have that higher deductible because maybe you know that you're not going to meet it, that's that could be great for you. And then of course, if you're thinking about it as a retirement vehicle, that's great. But it would not be my first choice. Uh it would be what I would do maybe tertiary to a 401k or a

Roth IRA and then I'd go in and do an HSA. Have you already maxed out those other options?

>> I have not. >> Okay. So yeah, I've just been paying for everything out of pocket so far.

>> Okay. So if we're looking at it through the the lens of strictly investing, yeah, I'm starting with a 401k. If I have it through my work, you know, start with that. If there's no match, you start with a Roth IRA first.

Now, for the use of, hey, I want to filter some of my uh actual health expenses through this, then yeah, you could fund it up to the point of, yeah, I know that I'm going to spend, I don't know, $3,000 on healthcare this year, so I'm going to put that in there, and then I'm going to use that HSA to then pay for those expenses.

would not overfund it to the point of

investing. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. Okay. Oh, it's it's set up weird where I have to have $2,000 in the regular HSA and then everything above and beyond I can invest.

>> Yes. And if you if you know, hey, at this point the $2,000 that are in there, I'm actually going to use that on healthcare care costs this year and this is a great funnel for it. Yeah, I'm all for that. But as far as you overfunding it to the point that you can then invest the rest, I would not do that until I've

overfunded my 401k and Roth IRA. Make sense?

Yeah. And I'm, you know, giving the max

uh up to the match for the 401k. And I'm uh [clears throat] slated to max out the uh Roth IRA by Great. Good for you.

>> Yeah. And if you do all three of those, you are what's known as winning at life.

That's amazing. >> Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks for the call. Good call. >> By the way, speaking of winning at life, you dropped tertiary out there. I want to just give a little shout out to that.

That's a great word. >> Tertiary. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a word, by the way.

you figure out how to use that, right?

Drop that in a sentence [laughter] this week. Uh you you get a good brand at work. So, there you go. Just call that out. Thanks for the call. I was impressed. Tertiary.

>> Yeah. Very nice. Word of the day.

Conor's up next in Boston. Connor, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Love you guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on?

>> All right. So, my wife and I just got married. We're in the process of combining our finances and I basically have a retirement question. Okay. Okay.

>> Uh my question is should we convert the

money that we have in our traditional 401ks into >> Roth >> or should we just from this point forward put money into the Roth 401k

option? >> Okay. Uh what baby step are you in?

>> We're in baby step 3B. We're currently renting uh and we're going to be renting for the next couple of years because we're not going to be in the city that we're in long term. >> Yeah. I mean, >> how much do you have? Can I ask you a question? How much do you have in your 401k?

>> Yeah, so across my wife and my accounts, we have about 220,000 in there. Uh our

household income is about the same.

>> Okay, good. >> Very good. Uh typically we would wait until baby step six to make a rollover like that because the truth is you're going to be on the hook for some taxes associated with that obviously. Um >> right. And with the goals that you have up until this point, in this case it's saving for a down payment, it could really eat into that goal that you have.

Um, so for this matter, you may, you know, yeah, I from this point on, I would do Roth style. That's what I would invest in, but I probably would wait to roll it over until you're ready to fit the tax bill and that it's it's not going to put a dent in your other very important goals. So yeah, you could wait till baby step six to do that.

>> Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Absolutely. Love that call. They're they're rocking. Love hearing that. Uh Spokane, Washington. Uh near your uh

birthplace. Isn't that right? >> The city where Hey, before we go to Spokane, let me go back to that cuz somebody might be like, why do they want to do that? What's the purpose? Okay.

>> Uh so their their 401k that they have

now, they have not paid taxes on that money, right? And what they're trying to set themselves up for is a situation that when they get into retirement, they can pull money and not have to pay taxes on it. So if you do a Roth account, you're paying the taxes upfront so that when you're 59 and a half and older, you can pull money from that and you're not taxed on it. So most people would like to carry that burden now instead of waiting for later.

So that's the purpose of that. And whenever you attempt to move that money that you have not yet paid taxes on it, well then you will have to pay taxes on it. Okay. >> Yeah.

Glad you did that. All right, Ry's up in Spokane, Washington. Randy, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hey, I'm I was recently uh let

go in my mid50s uh from an executive

position making north of 200 grand a year. And since I'm completely debtree,

everything I have a pretty good uh nest

egg set aside investment wise, I'm thinking about making a career change.

But to start out, I'd be making maybe

maybe 50 a year the first couple of years. And then later on it, you know, it goes up. But, uh, it's something uh

gets me out of the the corporate stress and the hassle. I don't have to move.

Uh, it's right down the road from my house that's completely paid for. That does that sound weird?

>> Uh, no. It doesn't sound weird given what you just experienced. I mean, when when you lose a job like that, that is a a real shot. Um you we know from

psychology studies that it's the equivalent of losing a loved one. So, number one, I'm sorry that happened to you. Number two, it's not weird for you to be thinking through this. Um my my

first question comes down to um the

transition phase. So, financially,

can you make ends meet making this pivot

to to the $50,000 a year deal? And then

how long would you have to live uh in

that situation?

>> Yeah. So, I'm I'm cash flowing it all out and I have access to about4 million dollars in cash outside my uh

401k investments, Roth, all that. So my

thought is that while I learn this learn

this new uh uh career path, you know,

maybe I I pay myself three grand a month

out of that lump of cash that I have and

you know, we just a little bit more than what we were doing before, >> right? So that's 36,000. Jade and I are keeping track of the money. So, so and would that would that then get you to a place where we've got margin if I if you used 36,000 of the 250 that you got set aside? >> That's what my that's what my spreadsheets tell me. >> Okay. Now, what is the I'm just curious.

What is this new path?

>> Being a surveyor, a licensed surveyor.

>> Okay. And so, uh how much would is it Excuse me. Is that a government job? Is that like a county level, state level, >> or is it private?

No, it's actually it's actually it's a it's a little private company that uh they have their own little firm and um you know they run run a little business. >> All right. And so 50,000 a year for how long before it goes up and then what does it go up to?

>> Yeah. Well, >> at that point it's just going to be just just me and my wife. And you've got in your investment situation, you started off the call saying your investment situation is good. Uh in this situation,

I'm okay with this. I just wouldn't limit myself just to the to the 50,000.

I'd be doing some other stuff in the meantime because I really don't want to use any of that 250 [music] I've set aside. That would be my advice. If you love it uh and you can make that change, then I'm okay with it. It's not my favorite idea, but not a bad idea. This is the Ramsay Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman and we're going to go to Matt who's joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas.

Matt, how can we help today?

>> Yes, sir. So, as of this past Monday, I

had a truck that I've been paying on for about two years. I had an auto loan for

about $30,000 on it. I owe about 27, I'm

sorry, $23,000 still on it. And the motor blew up. Um, it's unfortunately

just a bad design from General Motors. M

>> um they've had issues with this vehicle or these motors um for substantial amount of years at this point. >> Um and I have now fallen victim to said bad design. Um it would be about $15,000

to have a mo uh the motor replaced. Um

and I'm trying to decide if what's my best option for it um before I try to go trade it in and then be upside down on

it. You owe 23.

>> Yes, sir. >> Uh, if you get the motor fixed, if we could snap our fingers and it was just fixed today and it was paid off, is this a truck you'd be happy to drive for a while? And could you?

>> Uh, oh, the truck's in great condition.

Um, other than that, um, if the motor were to be fixed, um, there is a company that sells a motor that has the system

that caused it to have this issue in the first place, uh, deleted, and that's the option that I went and got quoted from when I talked to the shop.

>> Do you have the 15,000 in cash?

>> I do not.

>> What do you have in cash?

>> Uh, I I don't have much. Um, my

girlfriend just finished school and I was basically the primary provider um

for about a year and a half with us.

>> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How old are you?

>> About 30 years old. >> You're 30. Okay. You compliment to you.

You sounded much. >> You did. You did. >> Uh, why are you the primary provider for your girlfriend? You guys aren't married. >> Is she 32?

>> No, she's a little younger than me.

>> How old is she?

She is 27. >> You really don't know how old she is? You had to think about that. That's kind [laughter] of funny to me. >> That's a different issue.

>> That's a whole another deal.

>> Different show. Different show. But I'm going to go ahead and tell you, you probably need to be on top of that one.

Um, okay. You should So, you need to

come up with 15 grand. What do you make?

>> I work in public safety. Um, so last

year I made about 70,000. Um, I'm probably on track for about the same this year. >> And and and um if you weren't helping

provide for your girlfriend, it's just you, right? Just rent or do you own a home? I mean, what's what's the situation there? >> No, it would just be rent and my normal expenses. >> And um I'm sorry for following up on this. Is is she able to support herself now?

>> Yes, she's working full-time again. She just started with the the school year.

>> Jade, >> she works as a >> um a American Sign Language interpreter and she started interpreting with a school. >> Yeah. All right, Jade, I don't know where you're at on this, but I there's there's a part of me that goes because he's already upside down in this. The tradein option to me is just foolish.

You're just not going to get anything at all. I'd rather see him working two, three, four jobs. >> Yeah. and come up with 15 grand to get that truck fixed and then and then you

got to swallow the pill and pay it off.

But if it's a good if it's if the truck's in good shape other than this defect, >> yeah, >> that again, I'm giving you the answer on what I would do. >> Well, yeah. I mean, if you roll out the numbers, if we if we looked it up and said, "What could you get for this with the bad engine?" I mean, what is it?

What would your be your estimate? >> Do you have any idea?

Yeah, I've been um shopping around with a couple different uh dealerships. Um I

reached out to GM recently because or I'm sorry, GMC because they have the highest rebates and stuff right now because they say >> uh GM would give me 9,000.

>> Okay. >> GMC 9,000.

>> I mean, cuz if you think about it like that and then you add what you would have to kick in to cover the upside down plus to get another vehicle. Do you see what I'm saying? you're still shelling out $15,000. So, that's kind of the numbers on it. I I can't see

why you wouldn't just at this point. I hate it, but yeah, I don't think the numbers are good for you either way. So, it's do you want to keep the car and pay the 15,000 or do you want to get out of the car and get another beater, which I

don't think you do. I think you'd rather drive the more the the nicer car of the two if you can just get the money. Uh,

>> I've tried that. Um, >> you can't go into debt for this. I'll tell you that. Like if you end up if you

can't find the money and you end up having to go the other route of, you know,

>> okay, >> if you cuz here's the thing. If you do a personal loan to get from upside down, your numbers are going down. And I can I can advocate for that, right? I can advocate for you getting out of debt and then having to get a beater car and taking out a personal loan to do that, right? What I can't advocate for is you taking out a personal loan to keep a $23,000 car that you were already in debt for. Does that make sense?

>> Mhm. >> So, if you can't come up with the money,

you might be going down in value.

>> But I'm sitting next to a person who who uh with her husband, they had one car for how many years?

>> A decade. So, where there's a will, there's a way. And what I'm saying is is is figure out a wayavement >> to to get where you need to get. And uh I think you can come up with 15 grand pretty quick. A single guy who's able-bodied >> now. You might have to stop taking care of your girlfriend. >> Oh, no. That's done. I'm already assuming cuz she's just your girlfriend.

She's a she's a grown woman.

>> Uh you got problems,

>> you know. >> Yeah. So taking care of her problems aren't isn't your problem.

>> You can't you can't. >> You know, in fact, you guys have been, you know, playing house for apparently a long time anyway. So no date nights, no nothing. You got to come up with 15 grand stat.

Did we lose you?

>> No, I'm still here. >> Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

>> It is. >> Uh but I I just think the way Jade broke it down is great. And that just again, we're always trying to answer things like what would we do if you were in your shoes? >> If you can get the money Yeah.

>> without debt, yes, keep the car. It's it's you, to your point, it's going to be a great car when you get it fixed.

But you can't you can't do debt. I can't let you take out $15,000 of debt to and

put it with a $23,000 debt. I can't let you do that. And you should say that to yourself, too. And go back and listen to this call, right? Don't come off this call and go, "H, I can't get 50,000. I'm just going to do marinate on it." Because when you do, you're going to see, oh man, the last thing I want to do

is go from being $23,000 in debt, you

know, to being 30 $45,000 in debt. That

would be terrible. >> I agree completely. Are you stunned?

>> Yeah. Um I've tried going that route. I just haven't been able to find a a place

to be able to do that. Um, I initially did attempt to contact my bank um to try

for a personal loan because other than

the faulty design, I don't have an issue with the truck. I enjoy the truck. I've been driving the truck for 2 years and it's been great. Um, >> so then what do you think your option is?

>> Listen, it's not fun. That's why >> it's not fun.

[music]

All right, Jade. The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help make faster progress with your money. I want you to imagine going on Every Dollar uh after going into uh your app store, Google Play, and you get in there and you spend about 12 to 15 minutes answering specific questions.

>> And then right away, >> like you were on the air with us, you get recommendations on where you can save money and it's several thousand dollars. Imagine that.

>> Um and imagine that you got one of us

always on call. That's what this app is.

It's a game changer. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in the first 15 minutes. It stays with you.

You are with it. It is the perfect partner. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the app store or Google Play. It will absolutely be a gamecher for you. Ashley is up next in Indianapolis. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm a realtor. Um, so my

commission actually goes through an LLC we just set up. But, um, I have a savings account where I've been putting my salary in, but it's been really sloppy this past year. So, I really wanted to kind of get clear. We're on baby step two. Um, so, how should I be

using that salary account? Should I put in like six months and dwindle it down

and replenish it every quarter or should I have a full year salary in there before I started attacking the debt?

>> Oh, I see. Okay. So, are you the only Is

it just you or you said you're married, right?

>> I am married. Yeah. >> Okay. Does your husband work?

>> He does. >> Okay. What is What do you bring in uh a year and what does he bring in per year?

>> So, this year I'm bringing in 130 and

he's bringing in 40.

>> Okay. So, what does it cost on annual B?

And we can look at this monthly. Let's let's look at it monthly. What does it cost on a monthly basis to make your household run?

>> 4,000. >> 4,000. Okay. So, what I would be doing is since you know that, it sounds like

you're whenever you get a big lump sum of money, you're throwing it in savings and you're just kind of filtering in your portion of whatever makes the household run every single month. Is that right?

>> Sort of. So, all of my commission goes

into the LLC checking account. And then I put in what I know I need to get paid for the next couple of months, which is $2,000 a month, and that goes into our

personal account. >> Okay. And then you're trying to understand, okay, with the rest of it, can I go ahead and start paying off debt or how much do I need to keep aside?

>> Correct. Yeah. Like, should I should do like six months and then replenish it?

>> Well, how about we come at it >> or if I should do a year? >> What if we come at it a different way?

How about you tell us how much you have in savings in or excuse me in the LLC account right now?

>> Right now we've got 13,000 in total.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And uh how much debt do you have and list it out for Jade? Smallest to largest.

>> Cool. So smallest to largest, we've got five in school loans.

>> Okay. >> Seven in a motorcycle. [laughter] Um 21

in car and then 22 in credit card.

>> Okay. Few more questions about that.

What's that motorcycle worth if if you or he were to sell that today?

>> He rides it an awful lot, so I don't know. It might be worth five.

>> Okay. You notice I You notice I said if I get I get I get it. And it's such a small amount. You guys could knock that out so we don't have to get rid of it.

What uh uh Okay. So, Jade, you've got a picture of the debt right now.

>> Uh what do you have in the pipeline as far as home sales?

So, I have two that are pending past their contingencies. That'll be about 13,000 um this in the next 30 days. And then I also have five active listings. So,

>> looking at maybe 20 more thousand.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That gives you a better picture. >> Yeah. You've got 13 coming and then maybe another 20,000 in active listings.

Uh and there's already 13 there. I

probably If your husband made a little bit more money, I might pull this number back.

But if I were you, I'd want like

two months there. Does that feel right?

>> Two months in the in the account to know that I'll be okay. >> Yeah. So, instead of 13, you said 2,000 a month is what you pay yourself. So, she's saying 4,000.

>> Four or five. >> Leave. Okay. Leave five. Let's say five.

And that gives you eight to put towards debt. That's what she's throwing out. Does that feel like and then on a regular occurrence that five if it goes down you're always replenishing it to where it's always five? You're you're paying yourself your monthly amount plus there's always five in the contingency account. Does that feel good?

>> Okay. So, more like an emergency account. >> Yeah. But I don't want it to be confused with your emergency fund >> because this really just is it's kind of like if you have any other sole proprietor, you just want to make sure, hey, there's money coming in.

I understand my my income is very >> fluctuated. >> We would call this retained earnings in entree leadership land, right? And and so but what we're also trying to do right now is >> we're trying to coach you up on what you can do with the 13 that's in there right now and make some headway. You've got a $5,000 student loan that you could knock out immediately.

>> Done.

>> Oh, 50 bucks.

>> Okay. It's still 50 bucks. 50 bucks is 50 bucks. Yeah. which is great. And then the next month, my goal would be to knock out this motorcycle.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> That's 12 grand over two months.

>> Can I be honest? I'd sell the motorcycle. >> Well, I was going that direction. >> I'd get the two I'd take $2,000 so that you're not upside down and I'd sell it. That's what I would do. >> But you said he rides it a lot. That's what the only reason I You know what I'd do? I'd challenge him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd challenge him to go get a side hustle. What does he do, by the way, for $40,000 a year?

>> [snorts] >> He so we actually live in Anderson which is like a smaller market but um he is in

training to become an electrician so he is going to skyrocket crush okay you know what for them that's where I'm at yes Joy I mean excuse me Ashley sorry sorry Ashley I think he keeps it um and

you guys go all in on this and knock this knock this out but I knocked the student loan out today I'd cut a check for five grand as soon as I got off the phone >> yeah that's going to feel >> that's going to leave eight in there Jade Um, and it's going to feel real good.

Like that's a massive momentum.

>> Yeah. And then put the other three on the motorcycle. >> That cuts that in half essentially.

>> And then the next month, so that means in December the whole bike will be paid off. And now you guys will be setting yourself up to work on the credit card debt. Now, is it one credit card for 22,000 or is it littleer ones?

>> No, it's uh there's two basically split in half. >> Okay. So Okay, great. So yeah, I I would work on right after that. Yeah. Now you got 11,000 one $11,000 card and the next $11,000 card. You guys are going to go so fast like this.

>> I love it. I love it. How what's your anticipated timeline for him to start making the money as an electrician?

>> Um I think he's due for a raise in six months, but about a year is when we'll actually know for sure when he'll get in there. I think you guys, if you really get after it, I mean, you're going to be a long way down the line here on paying off this debt by the time he comes into some really nice money.

>> I think you're going to be done by the end of the year because I think you're killing it on real estate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think the more >> yourself for not having it done now.

>> That's all right. Before you pay, it takes a minute to get the bearings on this. >> Listen, we're not playing armchair quarterback and looking in the back and looking in the past. Ashley, this you guys are a great young couple. This debt is very manageable. I'm so proud of you.

The thing that made me smile, by the way, Ashley, is when you told me what was in your pipeline, >> you know, great. >> Five houses sitting out there. Let's see if we can stack two or three more on top of that. That's a beautiful situation for you.

>> And if he starts side hustling, yeah, mark my words, in 12 months, you're going to be out of debt. He's going to be, you know, >> increasing his income greatly. You guys are going to be it's going to be looking good for you, >> right? Well, thank you guys a whole bunch.

>> Yeah, you you're in great shape. Head up, right? Super excited. Um, we're gonna put you on the spot before we let you go.

>> 102%.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT? [cheering] >> That's what I'm talking about. >> That's like a nice birdie puck clap right there. I think that's fantastic.

>> I love that. >> You know what I love about her? >> Get it. Yeah. >> She said 102%. That means it's happening, Ken. >> I think she's cutting a check right now.

>> That is That's great. >> Uh boy, that feels good, doesn't it?

Describe for people from a from a from a person who with your husband, you paid off half a million. What is it going to feel like to her? Describe the feeling for somebody who's yet to do it. >> Oh. Oh, boy. It's It's like nothing else because it's never comes back. It's a stress that never has the ability to come back in your life again. It's >> deleted. Deleted from the deleted files.

>> Yes. Yes. Evaporated. Men and blacked.

[music]

[music]

[music]

The Ramsey show rolls along from our

Nashville area base headquarters.

Thrilled that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside.

The phone number is 88825-55225.

Let's go to Chris in Sacramento, California. Chris, how can we help today? >> Hi guys, I just want to say thank you for hearing me out. Um, I'm 27 and I'm

getting married within a week and I have

a debt, no debt, sorry. Um, but 65% of

my income is going to my house and we're

drowning about negative 20% per month on

our utilities and groceries and we've cut back and I'm debating on whether I sell my home, rent my home, I have an opportunity out of the area for a job that I would be able to live uh rentree

and just trying to figure out life.

>> Wow. Well, what we know to be true is this 65,000 this 65% mortgage uh can't

continue. So, we know that's true.

Right. >> Right. >> So, that kind of takes a weight off of our shoulders to know, okay, we can't stay here. And then the question is what

do we do next? Because you said you've got an o now we can start to say, okay, do we want to do the opportunity that's outside of the area? What does it look like? Um I think you mentioned renting this house and so now let's talk about those other options. So, is it fair to say that we both agree you can't stay in

this house?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, now let's talk about what do we do with the house? If I were you, I'd

sell it.

>> I'd gross about 150,000. I'd probably net after real estate fees about 135.

>> I like that. What's wrong with that?

>> Nothing. It's more as just my first home. I just put $100,000 into it the

last two years and you know I was envisioning having my kids here.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So there's just the emotional connection to it. Um how long did you have the property?

>> Two and a half years. I put about $150,000 down on the house when I bought it. And I had a really good management position at a restaurant before and that's where I'm going to now for the new opportunity. Um, I tried to start my

own business and it didn't work out exactly how I hoped, but I I'm recuperating my losses and I'm just trying to get back on my feet. I'm currently serving at a restaurant right now and I've been getting by with that and me and my fiance have just our net income together is just where we're at.

We're not we're not making it.

>> You're in Sacramento. Why are you guys staying in Sacramento for jobs that sound like you could do them really in anywhere in any part of the country? >> Well, and that's where that's why we're move moving it. It's just more of a >> do we rent the home and make a a profit per month about $100, $200 or do we sell

the home, put the entire, >> you know, net into a money market account. >> Yes. >> And make about $400 a month on money market. >> Let's do the ladder.

Let's do the ladder because if you have the opportunity to rent somewhere out of the area and they're covering the rent, then this is an opportunity for you to start over. Let that money grow, that equity that you're going to get out of the sale of this home. Let it grow over time because the time is going to come when you want to buy again. I did I just I did have a math question on this because I thought I heard you say that you put 150 down on the home >> and then I also thought I heard you say that you put a 100red into it.

Is that right?

What happened there?

>> Uh, bad contractor. Um, I got really

jacked up by that. I lost probably about $50,000, >> maybe more. >> And >> yeah, and I mean, I I'm not a contractor guy. I I you know I was doing my job and

I ended up going underneath the house and I just saw problems and I saw problems and I >> long story short cost me a lot more >> and I was paying the mortgage at the same time as I wasn't living in it. So I

was you know unfortunately paying double

>> away. Yeah. So it just really >> drain us out and then I just paid off all my credit card debt. Um I had about

$17,000 in debt. We're completely debtree. That's a car payment. Yeah.

>> So, there's there's some silver linings here. I think the hardest part is you had a vision for this house. You got taken for a ride and that sucks and now as a result, you know, it's not going to be the house that you raise your family in. But I love that you have other opportunities and it I mean you can Kin's here on the on the career side of this to to weigh that out.

I'd take advantage of that while you're on the line. >> Yeah. Well, Chris, if I heard you right, you got a really good manager gig you're heading into, so you feel good about this? Yes, I'm super conf.

It's a nice restaurant in uh South Lake Tahoe and it's it's to the nines. It's like my dream job. So, >> fantastic. And did you say South Lake Tahoe?

>> Yes. >> Oh, man. That's that ain't a bad place to work. >> Come on, Chris.

>> And I'd be going for it. But yeah, I it just it all makes financial sense.

And it's just Yeah. >> I just I have with my business, I've kind of had some regrets on that and I don't want to have my cart in front of the horse. And >> I love it. You're asking the right questions. Jay gave you great advice.

You do not want to be a landlord from long distance.

This is time to move on. This is a clean start and and I think it's great for you. You're going into your dream job in one of the nicest places in the United States to live >> and um and you're going to get free of this house which has just been nothing more than a money pit for you unfortunately. So yeah, sell and move on my friend. Sell and move on. I love that. >> And do you want to take another call or can I highlight this for the people?

Hey, I want to highlight this because a lot of times people are like, why does it have to, you know, we teach that the mortgage shouldn't be any more than 25%.

And I know there's a lot of questions around that. And this is a really great um it's just a cautionary tale of what takes place when you don't heed that advice because if you really think about it, it you know, if you look at your your money as a as a whole thing, you know, 100%.

>> I love that you've got an orange for our listening audience. She has a she has a little tangerine in her hand. >> Yeah. And if you think about it as segments, right? >> We got to cut it up into segments. >> It's going into segments. And so if you think, okay, if you do, let's pretend like, yeah, I'm taking your advice. 25%.

Okay, now we got 75 left. And then it's like, okay, if you're a person who values generosity, most of us do. So you give another 10%. Now you're at 35. And

now you say, okay, well, you've got to invest. Baby step four, I'm investing 15%. Now, before you know it, we're already at 50% of our income, >> and we haven't even paid our other bills yet. We haven't done child care yet. We haven't put aside for kids college yet.

We haven't uh, you know, done taken a

vacation. We haven't even done anything yet and we're already out 50. So, imagine what it would feel like if your mortgage was at 40%. Or 45%. You feel

that very, very, very, very quickly. So, it's it behooves you.

>> It's a great word, you I like a good word. [laughter] >> It does behoove you to to think about, okay, what are my ratios here? And is this sustainable long term? Because 65%

>> like you said, they're burning 20% every single month. >> There ain't enough tangerine left over.

>> There ain't enough. You got to eat the >> time you do. [laughter]

That is fantastic. That's why I showed up today for that moment. That was good.

Yeah. But it's it's a wonderful illustration. And and then I want you to while we're on this, >> okay, >> also why we give him the advice of don't try to stay, don't become a landlord.

Don't keep that house because he think, well, I'm going to make 400 bucks a month. I want you to walk through the math, the real math, when people think that that's a good idea. >> Well, I think for him, it was more of a sunken cost fallacy. I felt like he thought, well, I put this much into this property.

If I hang on to it for a while and keep dumping effort or whatever it is into it, maybe I'll get it out.

And you kind of have to just >> eat pith and go this [laughter] this was a bad break. It wasn't a good investment. You know, I got taken for a ride and walk away. And for him going all the way to from Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe, and now you're going to be a long-distance landlord.

>> Yeah. Trust me, when he rolls in in that moving van to South to South Lake Tahoe, he's going to be like, I don't I'm not knocking Sacramento. All right. But that's a difference. >> He's going to be like, "Forget. >> You want to leave all that behind." [laughter] >> Yeah. You want to leave it behind. And he had a bad taste in his mouth. So, I think for him to come out, he's clearing 135. It's not as much as he should.

That's right. But it's still money. And it's going to sit in a high yield for however long until they're ready to buy.

>> I agree. >> And when they buy, they're going to put as much down possible on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. Hopefully, that they can get paid off quickly. He's already debtree. >> Yeah. And so, >> so the principle of this whole segment is uh >> do you know what it is? You've been saying it. >> Don't eat piss. >> There it is.

>> By the way, spell that for people.

>> P I piss. P I T H. Is that right?

>> I think I'm going to be a hidden letter in there. >> We did. We got validation. The guys in the booth. >> Great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Think about the ratios of your income. Think about each section like this Clementine I hold in my hand.

>> Oh, it's Clementine. Hi. >> It's even better. >> Mandarin. >> Love it. That's how we're going to do this. Make sure >> lesson feel like we went back to Sesame Street. You laid it out for us. I love it. Good stuff. All right, quick break.

She's Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

We'll be right back.

[music]

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

[music] Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 1:6. God who began the good work within you will continue his work until it is finally finished. Our quote from Nathan W. Morris. The speed of your success is limited only by your dedication and what you're willing to sacrifice.

Well, you could put that right on top of the baby steps. You could just lay it over. >> Factoids. >> That's really good. Love it. Okay.

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania is where we go to see uh talk to rather Leo. Leo, how can we help?

>> So, I'm having a problem. Um I make decent money at my job, but I can't seem to save. It doesn't matter if I try, you

know, separate accounts that aren't connected to my checking account.

>> Mhm. >> You know, and I just cannot seem to save money to have an emergency fund to pay off debts. >> What happens? You transfer it over there and then you end up just peeping back in there and sneaking the money out.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I just keep dipping into it.

Whether it's for something important or just something that I want that's not important, I just can't seem to, you know, connect connect the dots between saving and not using it. And So, I got a

question. Um, I'm asking this on behalf of my friend here. Uh,

if we were following you around with a documentary crew for a week, what would

be the top items that you're spending the type of things you're blowing money on? You're spending the money on. If we're following you around, we'd go, "Oh, Leo, he's spending money on this." Give us a top five just off the top of your head.

Oh, it's gas station, uh, energy drinks,

uh, hunting supplies, you know, things that I I don't need.

>> Okay, that was good. That was a good list. Anything else? >> I not really. You know, uh, when I was younger, it was a before I had kids and real responsibilities. It was a, "Oh, I'll make more money tomorrow." And I kind of carried that over now.

>> And I can't seem to get away from that.

>> Trying to outer bad spending habits.

>> I got to ask another followup, Leo. If I'm following you, all right, and we're in the gas station parking lot and we're zooming in on the doors and you're busting out of that thing. What do you got in the arms? What do you got in the old bag at the gas station? I'm curious.

>> Well, usually it's two to three energy

drinks, uh maybe a snack for work, and a

can of tobacco.

[laughter] >> Dip, corn, nuts, Mountain Dew right in it. >> Oh man, that's disgusting. Say it's not true, Leo. >> Oh, it be so. >> Oh, it is. [laughter] I got to tell you, if I was on a desert island and the only thing I had was a bag of corn nuts, I'd starve. I'd starve. I really would. I'd die. >> They're They're actually delicious. >> So, let's help the man out with his budget, J. >> Okay. So, I think I heard you say you had kids. Is that right?

>> Yes. >> How many? Four. Okay. And you're married still? >> I'm not. >> You're not? Okay. >> We are We are dating. We are together.

We live in the same house, but we have not gotten married yet. >> Okay. So, you have a woman that you're

soon to marry. I'm Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Uh Okay. So, let's talk about the

money first and then we'll go back to the relationship cuz we're not going to speed past that like you didn't just say what you just said. >> Four [laughter] kids.

>> Okay. So, first off, what you really need I think the solution here is a good detailed budget. I always say that budgets should be three things.

Detailed, realistic, and flexible. And that will really help you out because I think what's happening, like you said, you're kind of spending the money before you get it. And it's like I can out earn this. I can now earn this. And if you don't, then you end up having to pull back out that savings. So, >> we'll make sure that you get set up with every dollar. And what I want you to do, I want you to sit down and create your budget. And I want you to be so detailed

about all the things that you know you spend money on. Even the energy drinks.

If you know that's something that's part of your life right now as it sits, put it on the budget. If you know, hey, like I buy a hunting knife at least once a month, put it on the bud. like be realistic and honest with who you are in your spending so that you can begin to see, okay, I see what's going on here, right? So, that's a good place to start.

And then obviously, the same way that you're budgeting for all the other things, you budget for things like savings and you can actually see, do I have money to put aside in savings? Can I live the lifestyle I'm living and still have money to put aside in savings? Right now, it seems as though the answer is no, but when you do the budget, you're really going to get a clear picture of what's going on. So, that's thing one. Um, thing two, I haven't even asked you about debt yet.

Do you have any debt?

>> Uh, we have two two vehicles that I pay for and I have maybe $2,000 of credit

cards that I'm slowly working on paying off. >> Okay. So, um, putting everything into

perspective right now, if you do find

extra money in your budget after you've budgeted for everything right now, the money wouldn't necessarily go towards savings. You'd save up $1,000 and that's it. If you can get $1,000 and just set it aside, tuck it aside for a rainy day, that's great. Everything else needs to go towards paying off this debt.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Now, let's talk about the elephant

in the room with this the relationship because >> I don't know why mama is not paying for her car. I don't understand it. I don't get it. >> Well, I don't understand why children don't go to school. >> Well, I'm with you on that. I'm as traditional as I get. Why aren't you guys just married yet?

>> And it it's 100% my fault. Um I am I

want to give her everything that I possibly can wedding-wise. Like I want it to be the wedding of her dreams.

>> Yeah. >> And with with the money situation, I am not to that point where I'm comfortable spending that money on something like that. >> I hear that. >> So it's me holding back. She want she's pushing for it, which I have no problem doing it, but I want it to be everything she wants. I don't want her to have to hold back on something. >> Listen, >> because we don't have the money for it. I 100% honor the idea that you want to

give her a wonderful wedding party, but I want you guys to frame that as that's what it is. It's a celebration. It's a party. You can get married legally and don't nobody have to know but you guys and then you're at least protected legally >> into it.

>> Huh? >> She's been looking into that through the courthouse and things like that. >> How about this? How about you guys just get married and then you can you can throw a celebration years from now or you can rededicate your vows and she can put on the dress.

I mean, >> spoiler alert, everybody is married before their wedding day. Everyone.

>> Oh, >> the moment you go and sign the >> You had me there for a second. I was like, uh. >> So, the idea that it's like, "No, I want to wait until the day." I'm like, "We all get married on paper a week or so before we're actually married." >> So, it's not even like we make it more of a thing than it is. So, I think for you guys, it's like, "Yeah, get married on paper.

That way you can do all the things we just talked about with your wife." Yeah, >> that sounds nice, doesn't it?

>> It does sound nice. And then you guys can save up for this wonderful party.

You can do all of it.

>> How much you think you're spending a month in energy drinks, bro?

>> Oh, I got a plan here. >> It's usually about $10 a day.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, we're going to do 30 days in a month. All right. That's $300.

>> My guy is Ric Flair on those energy drinks. >> I'm telling you, man, you need to get rid of the energy drinks. That's a $300 a month raise. Do some push-ups, some pull-ups. All right, get some good night's sleep. You won't need an energy drink. I don't need an energy drink. I wake up with the juice, man. Okay, I'm just telling you. I drink a little bit of coffee. >> But that's like two cups max.

>> Energy drinks. Two cups.

>> All right. >> Not energy drinks. Those are >> Yeah, those are the toy.

>> But I'm not getting on your health. I'm actually saying $300 a month. I wanted you to see quickly how you just changed your life. >> That's a big deal. >> That's a big raise for you. True or false?

>> For real. >> You can get rid of the energy drinks.

>> Mhm. >> Don't get me started on the tobacco.

>> Well, I'm slowing down on that. I >> know. And that's why I didn't bring it up. I am trying to actually be sensitive. I get that one's harder to kick than the energy drink. >> If you do this budget, >> I think you're going to be astonished.

And especially when you share it with your new wife since you guys are getting married this weekend, I think you're both going to be astonished. And there's something about seeing your behavior >> on on paper written out that you go like you clutch your pearls. You're like, I can't believe I've been spending my hard-earned money on this when I could have >> this. And so the what you could have is what you and your wife when the time comes, you need to be dreaming that up together.

>> Uh you're giving all this great financial advice.

>> You're my friend. You are Mrs. Clean Eater. >> Yeah. >> Give him some No, you do a great job.

Give him a healthy snack instead of the chips at the gas station. What's he taking to the office for a snack? Come on, >> Ken. I'm glad you asked this. Let me tell you what I want right now. >> He would like it. >> I take a Granny Smith apple and >> Oh, love a Granny Smith sour.

>> Sour. I slice it up. Right. So, we got slices. Then I get a little >> Tell me it's peanut butter. >> jar of peanut butter. It's not just that. separated at birth. I know we live another Wait, I'm getting more hemp seeds. So, I go apple into the peanut

butter into the hemp seeds. Last salted caramel. >> I don't know if I need to be that chilled out. >> Bit of salted caramel. It is so good.

>> Is the hemp seed going to knock his intensity off? >> No. Hemp seeds are they're a complete protein. They're [music] really high in protein. They're delicious. >> I'm learning something new every day. There it is, Leo. There's your healthy snack, man. We just saved you more money. >> Yeah, man. >> No more cup holder. [laughter] This is the Ramsey show.

[music]

[music]

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## 5. A Financial Reset Is Better Than Staying Broke | November 20, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4g8_PAIC0) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:57:48 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we're answering your questions. So give us a call at88255225

and we'll be talking about your life, your money, career, relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. So let's start off in Boston with

Miguel. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

So today I wanted to ask uh so I have a business and I'm um I'm contemplating on what I should do next because I'm I'm also 147,000 in debt and that's including credit cards, student loans, and a car payment.

>> Okay. >> So I want to know if I should sell a business um for what I think I give value for and then start fresh and then use that lump sum of money to attack like the debt.

>> What kind of business are you in?

Uh, it's a printing business. So, merchandise. >> What would cause um, >> what would cause you to sell the business versus using profit from the

business to pay down the debt?

>> I think it's just cuz I'll collect a lump sum of money and like the business right now is kind of, you know, fluctuating. It's up and down. Um, and

I'm also alone in it. So, it's a lot of my time >> where I feel like I if I could change the >> If you didn't have debt, Miguel, would you stay in this business

>> or would you still want out? >> Uh, yeah, >> you would stay. >> I potentially stay in the business. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Because I look at this as I mean because I mean, well, how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it >> minus all of your liabilities and everything?

>> About 30 grand. M I How much are you

making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home?

>> So, this is actually like my first year in it. Um, so I'd know at the at the end

of the year, but roughly after everything about 1,500 bucks a month.

>> 1,500 a month. And this is this what you do full-time or is this kind of like a side business?

>> Uh, it's full-time.

>> Well, I don't know that I would sell it.

Uh, but I would not have this being my full-time job right now because of what it's generating. It feels like >> How are you guys How are you guys living? Does your wife work?

>> Uh, no. I'm single. >> You're single. How are you living off of $1,500 a month?

>> Uh, just just making it happen, honestly. >> But what's your rent, though? Like real numbers?

>> Uh, I pay uh studio. It's about 850.

>> Mhm. What else? Car. Uh car. Yeah.$450.

And then >> 450. Okay. >> Anything else? >> Yeah. >> And then utilities. I guess that's put in with the rent. And then just you're scrapping on food. No insurance.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you have insurance?

Health insurance? >> Well, like car my cars.

>> No, no, no. No health insurance.

>> Yeah. So, you're not on a you're not on a living wage right now. And so, while I

think it's cool to have a printing business, this uh it eats like a a part-time side hustle when we look at the the the income that it's bringing.

So, I would be looking as you're working

this, I'd be looking for a full-time job. What are your what are your skills?

What have you done in the past before you did this business?

>> Uh, I I technically just hopped out of school and then saved money and then started this business. >> Yeah. How many hours a week? I I've never really >> How many hours a week are you putting into this?

>> A lot. It's probably like 50 60.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, if you

did, do you have a buyer out there? Like when you say sell the business, I mean, what's that? Have you have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option?

>> Yeah, I have Yeah, I have a few options.

And that's when I mean the business, I just mean like the equipment and everything. >> Yeah. Um, >> oh, I hear what you're saying. Not necess Yeah. Okay. Yes, >> because that's where the debt is, right? What did you invest in to do this business?

>> Like what what equipment do you have?

>> Oh, I have uh like DTG printer, heat presses, >> um, and a couple other machines,

>> you know, >> desktops and stuff like that. I I'll I'll tell you. Um

you've you haven't been doing the business long, so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. Like But how much of this debt is business debt?

Like how much of it came from the business?

>> Um about eight grand.

>> Okay, that's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I I'm inclined for you to continue. I I what I want to know is

what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the 1500

so that you can search for something else. Is there any feasible way to do that?

>> Yeah, it's possible. That's that's also another plan I've been thinking of because I have a location um in the premier like downtown area. So, I was thinking of just getting rid of the space >> um trying to find something smaller and then um >> kind of just work on based off orders I get. too much like being in there.

>> Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for >> or is it a one and done >> for the most part?

>> Uh, a little bit of both, but I do have I I've picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, monthly. >> Yeah. And is most of the hours when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways to get your name out there?

Uh, a little bit of both, but mo mainly the the printing process, like printing and and being in there.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm with Jade.

I mean, Miguel, if you have all the equipment and it is bringing in, 1500, obviously, that's not that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously, you know that or you probably wouldn't be calling the show. Um, so it's November. A part of me would give give it another six months while doing something else.

Like, you need to go wait tables. I mean, you could make more money doing that. I mean, something, right? you need to go be doing something and if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clientele you could >> I don't know and if you yes grow it and then maybe that be your full-time or you just have these clients and you start making 3,000 a month while also still working to get out of all the credit all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call.

hold tight for like maybe six months.

give yourself a a time period though to say okay I don't go into any more debt in it >> uh but to say can I pick up any more steam in this business uh in the next 6

to nine months and if you can't then sure sell the equipment and then that will give you some money um but we just see this Jade and I both I think >> uh as a great side hustle for right now while you go get a full-time job somewhere else >> the fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it I think is good and you have made an investment in some equip ment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer. But I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it.

>> So I would do that, Miguel. Or just throwing this out there kind of the other side of the coin is if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but you I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in it if you didn't have debt.

yeah find something just full-time sell the stuff and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have to carry a business, right? Because it does it's a lot of strain and mental calories to do that. Um, so I don't know, kind of two different options, but either way, you got to get a second job either way. >> Agree. Agree, >> Rich. Yeah. Um, I hope that helps. I

know that sometimes the when we just tell people cut your expenses and get a job. I know it feels tough, but truly that is that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut. You're bare bones as it is.

So, the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works. >> Yeah. Um, and Ken Coleman has a book, Find the Book.

Find I'm sorry, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. and we'll send that to you cuz there's a great >> um it's on a quiz assessment at the back. Yeah. To kind of figure out maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you too Miguel that you can just kind of brainstorm and think.

So hold in the line.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Up next, we have Cody in Rono, Virginia.

Hi, Cody. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey. >> Hi. How are you doing?

>> I'm hanging in there.

>> Well, good. We are too. How can we help today?

Well, so I got a little bit of a

financial problem as well as marriage

problem and it's becoming a strain more

so you know with the marriage because of

the financial problem. Um I have

>> we recently had gotten married about five years ago. My uh wife and I have

had three kids in the last 5 years.

And my youngest kid um he was put in the

ICU and >> long story short, we have a bunch of medical debt. Uh it's about $35,000

worth and >> I just can't keep up. I just recently in

the last couple years we've been on um Medicaid but um I just recently got a

raise working which is good but it's

like >> the more income I come in the more my

wife likes to spend. Um I'm the saver.

>> I like to say no and you know get bills

paid. We currently have been taking care

of some of the medical bills by credit card, which recently I figured out was a no. No. >> Yeah. >> So, I have seven grand left in medical debt. We have >> Oh, that's it. Of the 35, you only have seven left. >> No, no, no. Sorry. I have $7,000 of

credit card debt. >> Got it. >> And I still have the medical debt.

>> Got it. >> Okay. Um because we have the three kids, we had to purchase Well, we didn't have to. I guess we could have just kept going, but my wife wanted to purchase a bigger vehicle for traveling and stuff.

>> What' you spend on that?

>> Uh that was about $50,000.

>> Oh, yeah. You're right. You didn't have to spend that. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, long story short is that we messed up when we bought the car and now

it's kind of a paycheck to paycheck uh repetitive thing. >> When did you get the $50,000 vehicle?

How long have you had it? >> Uh, it's been about a year.

>> Okay. Shoot.

>> Okay. So, when you talk to her, Cody,

about this, how do those conversations go? Are you showing her numbers? Are you >> telling her that she's spending too much? Yeah. What's the >> It originally came up because I noticed that our savings account was going backwards. >> Oh. >> And uh instead of paying uh monthtomonth

uh >> I mean that dude's circling in there.

Can you do that going down the road? We >> the >> Cody. >> Sorry. Sorry. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, I can hear you. >> How much was in the savings account to start and how much has it dwindled down to?

So, originally we had about 20 grand in savings when we switched uh

>> to um because we had sold a house and we had a bunch of money invested into the house and we got a bunch of money back to pay off some debt.

>> Well, we went into the house and had money left over. We had 20 grand in savings. >> Got it. And what you >> I was having to I've got it down to like

5,000 now. Five. Okay. And was she using any of this Cody for >> everyday expenses like like the grocery store? Like where is she spending it?

>> So most of it has been when I get a

budget cuz I do all the money cuz she stays at home and takes care of the kids because if we tried to put four kids through daycare then it would just take an entire paycheck or two almost. So,

the biggest thing is how do it's going through like she's

buying clothes for the girls or >> Yeah. >> and I can't get her to stop.

>> Well, let's let's let's I feel like you're >> I feel like you're laying out the problem. I want to get into some real numbers so we can see exactly what what you're describing looks like. How much money are you bringing home every month?

>> I'm I'm bringing home from So, I got two jobs. I just started a recently a landscaping business which my main job

I'm bringing in about $5,000

a month >> plus >> and that's you know what I'm actually bringing home um not >> after taxes and then um plus my side

business if I get a job or two and I only have time to do that on the weekend. >> How much? >> Uh roughly two grand at most. Okay.

Probably. And give me an idea because you said you're a numbers guy. What are you for your because I thought you said three kids but then you said four. Is it four kids? >> So my old Yes. So my oldest I have four kids. I have three with my wife currently. >> Understood. So for Give me an idea of

what you have on the budget to spend on groceries.

>> So our budget right now is roughly about $1,200 a month on groceries. Oh, by the time I go to the >> brace. Mhm. >> I can't I can't I've tried to limit it

and it just seems like every time I try to limit it, it >> Well, that feels right. That feels right. Give me an example of a budget item that she's gone kind of ballistic on. So, we can get an idea. Is this $50?

Is this $500?

>> No. So, right now we have our joint checking, which is what I, you know, feed the money to her through. um is like if I tell her $100, it ends up being $150.

>> Okay, Cody, you're not her dad. Okay, so the everything that you're saying in this call so far, not saying that she's out of bounds. She could be out of bounds cuz she she spends more than what y'all are making. You can't do that mathematically, be a grown-up, right?

That's how you live life in debt. And we we don't want that. >> But I mean, you just said like, well, she stays home with the kids and I do the money.

>> and that was our plan and so what well I think the first step you you have to do is to get her to sit down at the table with you and you guys look at numbers and together you guys create a budget, Cody. Because I'll be honest, too, >> you know, I'm sure there's some wrong in there that she has, but also she is seeing expenses every single day and knowing the reality of what things cost because she's the one buying them and you don't. Now, again, I'm not saying that she's justified in it, but you actually may learn something in sitting down with her and hearing what she has to say to say, "Oh, wow.

I didn't realize that sports uniforms cost, you know, 30 bucks a kid.

But she also if if there's any entitlement in her end or any like, oh well, I don't know. I just I just have to buy the girls. If it's that attitude either, she has to grow up and mature.

So you both need to sit down and you

need to come to her and say you have you you don't need to say well you're spending too much you you you Cody you need to tell her I'm freaking out over here like I am to this point where I feel so disconnected I feel so fearful I feel so protective of the money cuz I feel like we are not on the same page so will you please sit down for me right like you make it really about you and

what you want for the outcome to be which is you guys be on same page and for this not to take your marriage because it does. Cody, you're exactly right because because I do think people cannot get on the same page. And so I would beg you to say that that is that's one of the best things that you can do because out of that budget meeting, I think she's going to have a lot to say. I think you're going to have a lot to say >> and to be able to actually discuss it together, not these oneoff conversations.

>> Yeah. So, we actually recently uh I've been m well I almost make her I mean

it's it's kind of like feels forceful sometimes because I'll sit down after the kids go to sleep and we'll sit and then I'll go over the budget numbers and stuff with her and um but like here recently I've done it more so to where she's aware of you know >> but there's a reason saying how much is

there >> there's a reason that this is offputting for her um And you've got to get to the bottom of what that is there. There's something there. Whether it's something that has nothing to do with you possibly, how did she grow up? What were the relationships she was in before?

Maybe, I don't know, we didn't get to talk about it, but did she have a career before and she's used to kind of contributing in that way and now she's not. There's something behind this. It's not just, well, she won't stick to the budget. It's never that.

[Music]

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[Music]

Well, it's that time of year and in a few weeks we're going to be doing the special giving edition of the Ramsay Show. We do it every holiday season and it's one of our favorites because I think it does >> it highlights humanity. It kind of gives you faith into like the things that people are doing day in and day out for other people that are not highlighted or not seen. we like to highlight and show you all um how incredible it is.

So whether maybe you've tipped a waitress $100 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family that couldn't afford something or afford the food, uh maybe bought someone a car, it could be something um anything that where you have been generous or maybe you've been on the receiving end of it, we want to hear from you.

and put giving in the subject line and

just give us a little blurb of your story and what it is and you may be yeah selected to be on our giving show that we do annually again. So, that is coming up on December 18th. So, start sending your stories today so we can celebrate living like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. All right, let's go to Bato in Atlanta. Hey,

Beta. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

>> Hi, so I just bought my first car. I'm 17 years old. I work full-time at a MMA gym and the finances that came with the

car kind of are kicking me in the ass.

>> Yeah. >> But it's my first car, and I don't really have another option. >> What'd you get? >> I got a 2012 Honda Accord.

>> Okay. So, what's the big deal? What's it cost you?

>> So, the total is 8 grand

>> for the car. And my friend owns it, owned it, and he told me I can pay him $400 a month. >> Okay, >> that's fine. I make roughly $850

bi-weekly. >> Okay.

>> And the part that's getting me is the insurance. My insurance for just liability a month because of my age is about $700.

>> Mhm. and having to pay all of that on my

own. Buying a used car, I also have to pay a title tax because we switched it over to my mother's name. And that's about another $700 >> a month. >> No, just in one time.

>> Just in one month. >> Okay. I was like, what?

>> Mhm. >> Okay, keep going. >> But I I have to get it all done at once, which is kind of the hard part. and

and I have one or two little repairs

that are going to cost me a total of 350 >> before I can get a tag.

>> What would happen?

>> So, you haven't done it yet. You haven't done this deal yet.

>> Um what how are you getting around now?

>> So, I did buy the car and I have a an operating permit >> for from Georgia without a tag for 30 days. But once that runs out, I'm going

to be stuck without a tag and not being able to drive the car until I pay.

>> Well, you haven't you haven't done the title exchange, the title transfer yet, right? >> I have. >> Dang it. Ah, >> okay. Cuz what I was going to suggest to you is to not buy this car and just work

your job cuz you were getting around somehow before this. Keep doing that and save up four grand and get a beater.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um, is there any way to go backwards on this deal?

Cuz >> I don't think so. >> Um, not not at all.

>> Okay. Second second round then is

you tell me how old you are again. 22.

>> I'm 17. >> 17. Um,

man, >> are you in are you in high school?

>> No, I work full-time. >> You work full-time. Okay. It >> And how and how much are you making? Oh, bi-weekly. You said you're making00 a month. How are you? >> Around 8:50 every two weeks.

>> Okay. Um, are you living alone or are you living with parents?

>> I live with my mother, but I try to contribute where I can. I'm really >> independent financially.

>> If you are working full-time, I just

wonder because you said full-time hours at an MMA gym. I wonder if there's something that you could find full-time that will give you a little bit more money to give you some breathing room on this while you can get it paid off.

I applied to an orthopedic clinic of a friend that I know and I'm supposed to start in about two weeks.

>> What will that be? >> Starting us at 20 an hour.

>> Okay. And 40 hours a week?

>> 8:00 a.m. 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. >> Okay. So, that's going to be better for you >> for sure. >> Are you able to go to this gym at night when you're got when you're done at 5:00 p.m.? >> Yes. >> Go and work at night >> on the train. So, >> okay. So, you could go work from like 5 to 7, 5 to 8 at the gym and get like an

additional three hours a day?

>> Not necessarily, cuz my hours from the gym are either >> 9:00 a.m. till about 1:30 or 4:00 p.m.

to 9:00.

>> Okay. >> And if I get out of the other job at 5, the only time I have left would be those few hours. >> Yeah. >> And that would leave me no time to train, which is why I got the job at the MMA gym in the first place. M Well, what if you what if you just what if you

continue to train at the MMA gym just because you like training, but you got a different part-time, like a different side hustle job to bring in the 1,700.

>> So, you did the full-time gig at the orthopedist office and then maybe you drive some Uber cuz you got a car now.

>> Or not Uber, but like, you know, Instacart, Door Dash, that kind of thing. >> And then, yeah, you just work out at the place you like working out at.

>> That makes complete sense. I I have one more question on starting my own business. I was actually going to start my own business soon about car detailing. >> Okay. >> But I wanted to know whether I should try to pull the trigger now or whether I should try to pull the trigger after I get everything with my car done and pay off. >> I mean, what's it cost? You don't have any money?

>> I have about $1,000 saved up that I have

like in case my car like engine messes up or anything like an emergency emergency. And you need that. >> I'm not even planning on touching. Yeah, I haven't been planning on touching it, >> but >> yeah. So, it would just for the car detail, you'll probably need some equipment, right, to be able to So, that would be saving up and paying for that.

So, I would just price out B what um if you talk to some people in the area that do it, how much they have invested in it, how many clients they have, how long the job takes, run some numbers because you may I don't I'm not sure what the numbers are. So, you may find out, you may find out, oh my gosh, this is pretty incredible. I only have to put 500 bucks in and I'm making thousands a month.

That's worth pausing paying off the car to get that built up to start that because it's going to bring in more income. Or you talk to people and you're like, "Oh crap, that steamer and this and this to really >> do it. It's going to be thousands and you're only really making x amount." Like, whatever the numbers end up being.

Yeah. >> You probably can make that call. You have an amazing work ethic. Like, it's very incredible. Um, and I just want you, you know, steering your financial decisions to help you, not harm you. And debt will always set you up uh in the

negative. It always will financially, emotionally, your stress, everything.

And I think you're kind of getting a glimpse of that. But I'm kind of glad you're getting a taste of it at $8,000 for a stupid car loan >> versus a $40,000 business loan that you're probably going to want to do when you're 25 because you're very entrepreneurial, right? So, just remembering to stay away from debt. all

together. All together and you're a smart, hardworking guy and I think you're going to do fantastic. So yeah, the car dealersh

kind of figure out and if it feels like, okay, that's a good investment that's going to that's going to bring me a significant more money than these other two things combined.

>> Um, >> and it's something you can start small on. You don't have to start with every piece of it. It can really you can build into that. >> Yep. For sure. >> Yeah. That and then and then starting to to Yeah. get this get this car paid off and it's going to it's going to feel like an uphill battle with this insurance. When you turn 18, does it go back down? I'm sure I'm sure it does.

>> I'm not quite sure because I asked um one of my friends who works with insurance and he said not usually and if it does it's minimal, which I would appreciate anyway. >> Yeah, >> but 700 about 700 a month for liability

is the only thing that's counting.

>> The $400 a month for the car, I understand that. >> Right. Right. Right. Totally. Yeah, it's the insurance. Did you um where did you get the insurance? Did you price out different companies or did you just pull a quote from one?

>> So, I started with like Geico or something and they started me off at almost $1,000 for just liability >> because of my age and then I went to a few places. I went to this mom and pop shop >> for insurance down the road for me and they quoted me the lowest at 700 a month. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would keep shopping that just to see. Um, and yeah, when you turn 18, you

should see a little bit of relief. And also, when the vehicle is completely paid off, you should see a little bit of relief. It's not going to be a lot, but it'll be something. Yeah.

Gosh. Well, bet, I hate that you're in the situation cuz I I hear the the stress and the regret already, but I really do think with putting some some of these jobs kind of together, making some more money, and really being focused right now, like I I think you're going to you're going to get out ahead on it, but um but I think it's a good lesson to learn. I hate to say it.

And that's what debt does.

[Music]

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[Music]

Well, there are some things that uh no one tells you about money and those are the emotions around it. And Jay, that's what you wrote your whole new book on. >> That is right. What no one tells you about money. >> Yeah, it's it's powerful. Your your not

only your story, but I think putting to words how people are feeling during this process, whether it's getting out of debt especially, >> but this it's a whole journey, right? This money journey is very real and it's very emotional >> but also it feels like you are sitting across from a friend who's been through the journey and you give such great words to again how people are feeling and thinking. >> Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to give practical steps because a lot of times like you say the word emotion and it's all like in the clouds and the book is very very practical.

The same way we give you you know seven baby steps of plan for your money. I'm giving you tactical things to get and deal with those emotions. It's not just you're going to feel sad. It's snow.

How do we work through it? Give me the information, Jade. I need steps. And they're there.

>> Yeah. And some of the resolve, too, because your emotions aren't the end all beall to your point. There's something you can do to take that >> to continue. So that's right.

Um I love it. So exciting. So you can pre-order now for $24.99 >> and you can get over $100 in free bonus items, including the audio book, which I appreciate so much.

and live Q&A with Jade Warshaw. Uh so you can go to ramseyolutions.com/store to pre-order it if you're watching on uh YouTube or podcast. We will leave a link below. But again, the book is titled What No One Tells You About Money. All right, let's go to Ian in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I'm in a pretty interesting uh pretty blessed situation here. I'm a 20-year-old engineering student and uh I started doing affiliate marketing on Tik Tok shop like a year ago and I've gotten

pretty good at it. And last October >> I did $180,000 in sales.

>> Good Ian. Holy crap.

>> It returned about $23,000 in profit. Um

but I realized I you know for this time I kind of realized I hate engineering and I don't really want to do that. Um,

so I definitely don't want to do that for a job, but I have a pretty interesting opportunity to sail around the world on a semester at sea next semester. >> Oh, yes. >> I had friends do this.

>> Yeah. I was just kind of wondering like if I should take the time off and do the semester at sea, enjoy my youth, or if I should continue to scale because honestly, I think I could get to the point where I'm doing a,000 to $2,000 days. >> Wow. Um, is there a way to do both?

No, unfortunately I wouldn't have Wi-Fi on the ship and then also I wouldn't be able to receive packages.

>> Oh. To like fulfill orders and that kind of thing. If you did pause it for five months, does that change the business drastically or can you just pick it right back up?

>> The business is kind of built by momentum. So, it'd be pretty hard to just It wouldn't necessarily be hard because I'm pretty skilled at it, but it would I would definitely like it would take some time to build back up.

>> Sure.

Um, I love I I mean, I'll tell you straight up, I I worked at CE for a long time,

right out of college, and I loved it. It was the best time of my life. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Um, I've been to so many countries. It's it's it is a quite the experience. So, part of me just wants you to have that life.

>> I know you're 20 years old. I feel like you have your whole life >> to earn money. Even though you're you're earning crazy money right now, there's something about there's a Yeah. a specific time in life that you can just never get back.

And there are experience points in life that are so good for you too as a person like to >> to do all and to enjoy. There's a part of me too where I'm like, man, you're 20 years old. >> You're obviously skilled at understanding how things work and to be I mean not only just have an engineering degree, but let alone kind of some sales and understanding marketing. I mean, you know, you didn't just fall into this, you learned it.

And so, you're a smart guy. So, I'm not worried about your earning potential later in life. Um, yeah. >> So, there's something about just doing a semester at C.

Go have fun. You know, you're 20 years old. >> I don't know. I I'm an experienced person, though.

>> Uh, yeah. One of my best friends would be going with me. >> Okay. And do you want to go?

>> Uh, yeah. I think I want to go. Um, but at the same time, I'm also kind of worried about setting up my future and like >> I want to get into real estate in the future and kind of have that be my main thing. So, >> how's Well, you're not going to do you're not do real estate in the next four months. >> H how's Exactly.

>> How's the semester at C being paid for?

>> So, actually, I got a full ride scholarship pretty much. So, >> man, I I'm telling you like you're going

to be you're going to have to convince me that not to go

cuz I am and my all that stuff's going to be waiting for you. And I agree with Rachel. You're smart. I'm not too concerned about what you'll do.

This is a kind of one of those >> I don't want to say I don't want to say once in a lifetime but it is kind of like a once in a lifetime >> for sure. Yeah. >> You know >> to be able to go and travel for five months around the world >> and it's paid for. >> Yes.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. >> I know. I think you're 20 years old and I think you need to just relax, enjoy.

>> Ken would tell him to do it. >> Ken would Ken would Ken would say to go to Taylor Swift concert, too. So that's right. >> Ken would be a yes. Uh, George would probably be a no. I feel like George would be too practical. >> He might. I am. And let me just >> And Dave, who who knows? Throw up the throw up the >> Dave would say yes, but let me just say like percentage-wise, I am a 100% yes.

I'm not like a 7030.

>> Jade says do it, Ian. 100%.

>> What's your What's your ratio? >> My percentage is um

>> I'm going to go 95. >> Wow. Maybe just like a tad less than Jade, but again, from a percentage standpoint, basically we're the same.

>> That's good. Kelly, what's yours?

>> I'm 100%. You should. Okay. Is there

anyone in the audience? We have an audience out here. Anyone in the audience? Everyone's giving a thumbs up. Would you do a semester at C? Oh, we're getting a lot. Oh, wait. There's one guy. >> Uh oh. Maybe one guy in a gray shirt. I don't know. I don't know. He's a little iffy.

>> Okay, we got a lot of yeses. Ian, I'm thinking you I think you need to go.

>> And thank you. When you stop in Paris,

>> you >> enjoy it because I've never been. So give the Eiffel Tower a wave for Rachel.

Please >> eat a whole baguette just in the streets. A whole loaf of bread >> with no regrets. >> Yeah. Go enjoy and go enjoy your time as a 20-year-old with no responsibilities.

And and again, it's incredible that you built up that thing. I mean, >> now again, if you were um 34 with not

going anywhere, >> I know >> affiliate marketing is not going anywhere. like it's the wave of the future and of the now. >> You're going to do great. You're going to do great. All right, let's go to Sonia in Orlando, Florida. Hi, Sonia.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. How are you today? >> We're doing great. How can we help you?

>> Awesome. Well, I'm planning on retiring soon. >> Okay. >> And using money that I have in my Fidelity account. Um, I'll have to use that for about a year before my social security um, will kick in as a supplement. >> Okay. >> Um, I have five properties um, including

the one that I live in and I want to

know if it makes sense for me to sell

one of my rental properties to pay off,

which is free and clear. >> Oh, wow. >> Um, to pay off to Yes. um to pay. All of

my properties are free and clear except for the one I live in. >> Oh, yeah. >> And the one my brother lives in that I purchased after my mom passed. I bought her um reverse mortgage.

>> Um >> are those two are those two in addition to the five or they're part of the five?

>> I have a total of five including the one I live in. Yes. >> So I >> If you sold one of the investment properties to pay off your primary home, would you officially pay off your primary home? Would it would it absolutely >> it pay it off free and clear? And then would you have some additional money left over? >> I I have money saved up not only in my

Fidelity account, but I also have money in my bank account. >> How much do you have total? >> Um um total I have in um my bank account I

have $130,000.

Okay. >> Okay. >> So, and uh in retirement I have about a

half a million dollars. Good for you, Sonia. Okay. >> And what's the real estate total?

>> Um I'm sorry. What was the question?

>> What's your real estate total?

>> Um my real estate total is um

I have

I have $1.3 million.

>> Okay. >> Okay. In all the real estate. Gosh, Sonia, you are a baby steps millionaire.

Incredible. So yes, in a heartbeat, I

would sell one of the properties to pay off your primary and be completely debtree and be living off your investments and the other rentals that you know, if there's income coming in from those. Um, but you've done you've done a fabulous job, Sonia. A fabulous job. And your next step, yeah, is just to become completely debtree and then live and give like no one else.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi Gabrielle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello Jade. Hello Rachel. Uh it's Gabriel. Sorry. >> Oh Gabriel. Gosh, I'm sorry. My bad.

Thank you Gabriel for the nories.

>> For the fix. How can we help?

All right. I was calling on behalf of my mom. Um she's 72. She's a widow who

never remarried. U currently she's retired. She's active in her church and

she has a home that's almost paid off.

It doesn't include taxes and insurance.

Um but lately she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate. M >> um how can I help her protect her being independent but also set up her finances wisely for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings?

>> Yeah, for sure. How old are you?

>> I'm 40. >> You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she Is she still working?

>> She's not. >> Okay. So, she's retired. Is she Do you know Do you have any idea numbers of what's in her retirement?

Um, she's currently receiving Oh, as far as her retirement savings, she does I believe she's exhausted them. So, she's currently the only income coming in is social security. >> Do you know what that is?

>> Um, I believe it was like 1,100,300 possibly. >> Oh, wow. And do you know >> on the bare minimum? >> Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full? >> So, the mortgage currently outstanding balance is around 100k.

>> Okay. And then the mortgage payment is around I'd say 1450.

>> Oh gosh. Okay. Well, yeah. So, >> how is she paying for everything >> right now? I have my oldest sister who's living with her and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage.

>> Okay. So, they're half and half. Okay.

So, it's that's 700. And then everything else, >> I mean, is she able to pay for is is your sister splitting other bills, do you know, like electricity, water, all of that? >> Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings, she approaches each sibling individually and asks >> Okay. >> for help. >> Um whether it's covering a bill or a few

dollars here and there. >> Yeah. >> And it's for real needs. It's not for Yeah. Is she ablebodied to go to work?

Is she able to work?

>> She is able-bodied. Uh however, she hasn't worked in some time.

>> Yeah. That's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either Yeah. I mean, if she has no if she has no money and all she's getting is social security, it's not enough to your point when taxes are due for property tax. I mean, when she pays off the house, you know, she's going to have to pay for property tax and all that. >> What's the home worth? I'm just curious.

If she were to sell it, if she were to sell it, what would it be worth?

>> Um, conservatively probably about 1.1

million. Um, it's a five bedroomedroom, three bath. Um, as far as

her renting out the room, that's also been thrown around, but >> I hate that for her. >> Require uh me involving myself. Uh,

>> I'm just wondering about everything.

>> Is there like a Go ahead.

>> I'm just wondering cuz my head is that she's 72. She's still fairly young and she's in good health. She could live till 92, right? So, in my mind, I as in

my mind, I look at $1 million that she stands to take away from this and I go, "Okay, we can throw a decent amount and

invest it and start that fund going and then maybe she can buy a condo for, you know, 250 or 300." I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there. What's possible? Can she buy something that's very small just for her and then your sister goes and does her own thing?

because I'm also thinking what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life, right? So, there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested, and get some of it in a smaller, modest living space for

her.

>> Yeah, I think that's that's what I envision for her. >> I just don't know where to start. I think um if I do get the ball rolling,

I'm I'm seeing it through start to finish. Yeah. So, where would I start?

>> Well, I would start with is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole family, or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country?

>> Uh, no. We're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area. >> Okay. Have you looked at or would you know price ranges of again a very modest

one-bedroom condo that she could purchase >> onebedroom one bath condo purchase outright >> out >> possibly in the area that we're in >> like around Oh outskirts >> well yeah cuz she's got to be able to afford it >> 400 >> 400 okay >> okay so then she could invest 500

>> you know >> I'm not mad at that >> and get that ball rolling and then again if she's able to not pull from those investments and maybe for just 3 years work somewhere just to pay just the rent, you know, just mortgage. I'm sorry, not mortgage. Hopefully, it's paid for. >> Yeah. taxes, taxes, you know, lights,

water, food, um, and and just not touch

that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that because it's either going to be that or

or you guys as a as grown kid adults all

have to say, "Okay, mom's not going to be able to afford this long term. Are we going to be willing to to support her in it?" Um, >> so that would be have to be a conversation that you guys have. >> Will she sell? Do you I mean if if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like?

>> The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional for her. For me, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now is the way that I talk with her.

>> And um you know, she's open to it. Um

but again, uh she kind of pushes the the

uh the work on to me. So, >> yeah. >> And so do my siblings and all. What do they kind of look to you, your sisters too, to say like what do you think?

>> Um, >> no. They they don't have an opinion as far as >> what she should do. Um, they feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that she should hold on to it and she's only got >> such and such ways to go.

>> There's no there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional. Like I'm I'm telling people all the time that plays such a factor in how we manage the

money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have anything. And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the comfort the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing, right?

And that's going to you're start she's going to start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the

money if that makes sense. The more that you got and it's your choice but the more that you say okay we'll float it. We'll float it. We'll float it.

Just know that >> it'll float through the Yeah. >> for the next 20 years. Yeah. So you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying >> we can talk to her about this, but if she doesn't do it, we have to allow her to feel it because when she feels it is when she's going to realize, okay, I have a difficult choice to make.

And just try to support her as much as you can. And it is emotional.

It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution often lies outside the comfort zone. So

>> So it sounds like my next steps might be like too far, right? It's kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation. If we're going to do this, we need to stop enabling her

um and giving her money essentially.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, that I mean that's what I would do. And even pull some options. You can even get in touch with one of our um um >> real estate pros. Yeah. just to look for the area like what's in the areas of um

where you guys are just different options condo-wise and be you know there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations right maybe it's just the actual home itself but um run some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it but yeah this is this is difficult [Music]

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[Music]

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Just get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Alex.

Welcome to the show.

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. So, I am >> I'm 28 and debtree. I'm looking to buy a tiny house to put on my parents' property without a credit score now. Um,

and a tiny house technically not qualifying for a mortgage. How do I go about getting a loan for it?

>> Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parents property. So, with the loan process, if you have no credit score, you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now, we would recommend Church Hill Mortgage. Um, there are companies

that do that and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area, but it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines. You're going to have to show your pay subs. You're going to have to show proof of income. Um, if you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns, that sort of thing. But, for the most part, the process is the same. But how much? But you're saying it doesn't qualify for a mortgage because it's a tiny house.

>> Correct. Yeah. So, if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at up to 50 square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage. >> What's the cost of it?

>> Uh, I'm looking at about 40 to 50,000.

>> Oh, well, save up and pay for it, Alex.

>> I'm sorry. >> Save up and pay for it. It's like a car.

>> Right now, I only have about 10,000.

>> Okay. Well, then just wait a little bit.

Yeah. So, just put be putting some money aside. two 3,000 a month and just work

your way up and in probably, you know, 12 18 months, then you can do it.

>> Can I ask the long-term strategy on this, >> Alex? >> Yeah. Um, so I have autism and I can't really live independently. I So, it's pseudoindependent being on my parents property. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. What are you doing for work?

>> Um, I coordinate volunteers for hospice.

>> Cool. Are your parents involved at all, Alex, in this process? Would they be able to help you?

>> Not financially, no, but they've been a great support. >> Okay. Okay, great. How long did it take you to save up the 10,000?

>> Um, I just finished I got debtree in February and then saved up like 6,000

for my e to six month emergency fund

>> and it's so I don't know last 6 months.

>> Okay. Um, yeah, I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live. And I I like that you've thought through that. I I don't think you need to go into debt for this. And for anybody who is listening to my zero score spiel, that's for >> a mortgage. No, but that's it. That are trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it.

I like the 40 to 50,000. Just understand that you that this is yours. like the

resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents' property and this is money that you'll likely never get back.

>> Um so understanding that is important I'd say. Yep. >> Yeah. So running the Yeah. I mean so it will um are you able to pick up extra work, Alex?

>> Yeah, I'm looking for a second part-time job. >> Okay, good for you. You sound incredible. I mean the fact I mean you're very ambitious, you're very >> well spoken. You know what you want.

You've been doing the baby steps. You became debtree. you got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean, you're literally doing it all.

The only thing that's going to suck is like the next probably 3 years of saving for this. You know what I mean? You just look at it like um you know, people want to save up for a car. They want to save up for a college education, right?

And these numbers, these are big numbers. Um I'm definitely not downplaying that. It's just so it's going to just take you longer to do it.

guess technically, you know, I guess you could Ramsey ver, you know, go through it to say, well, >> but a mortgage is the one type of debt and this is for a house, but >> figure out a way to do it. >> But the fact that it's but the fact that there is no resale because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most >> expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also homes go up in value over time and this is more

like a car in a sense where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into

debt, even a personal loan for this um financially would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside.

And I mean I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Is there can you can't you can you buy or buy used ones? Can you buy a used one? >> Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at them on like Facebook Marketplace. >> Okay. Okay. So maybe you could even Alex

um I don't know because for some people they may want it off their property.

There may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, "Hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest?" You wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that in, you know, 3 years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate.

>> Okay. >> For for a lower price. Yeah, absolutely, Alex. Yep. Thanks for the call. Um, and I again, I think Yeah, I would I just wouldn't do I wouldn't go the debt route. >> I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used. >> Yes. what type of resale would be.

>> Yeah. >> On maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah.

>> All right, let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how's it going? Um, I just have a question. I am 22 years old. Um, I'm

currently going to college right now.

Um, I'm almost done with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left.

Um, I'm only about 14,000 in student

loan debt, so almost done. But yeah, that's my only debt. no credit card debt, nothing, no car loan, nothing like that. And I guess my question is, well,

I'm looking to go into law enforcement after um after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an extra like pay incentive for the rest of my career or if I should just once I get my bachelor's degree, take that pay incentive and just start working?

>> Well, what would it cost you to get your masters? How would you pay for it?

>> So, that one would be it would be loans.

Um, but it would be for a total of about master's degree. I' I've been doing my research about 18,000 for the the college that I'd be going to. >> And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's?

>> Yeah. So, if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% pay incentive for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% pay incentive. So, I guess my question is it it would take a long time to repay that like get that money worth

that extra 2% every year, >> but I do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I, you know, enjoy my hobby. So, I just don't know if it's if it's makes financial sense to get a master's degree. >> Not on debt.

>> Not on debt, but I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow it.

Are you are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away or can you work on it later while you're in law enforcement and still get the 5% bump?

>> Yeah, that you you can still get the 5% bump. I've just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this full-time job to go back. >> Yeah. I mean, how much how much are you getting paid like your first year that you're working? >> So, yeah, first year if um with a bachelor's degree would be about uh 90k.

>> Okay. Okay. And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95. >> Okay. So, that's my thing is that the percentage wise is not big, Elijah. I mean, it's we're talking maybe a $4,000 difference and you could do that in two months with a side gig.

>> You know what I mean? Like, so there's a part of me and I know I have friends in law enforcement and they even move around. They get up to detective or they, you know, move around within it.

Yeah. >> Um, that can change your pay over time as well. So, um, yeah, I think if you

had the money and you wanted to do it, I I don't think I I mean, I don't think I would stop you, but also since you don't

have the money, it's kind of that's a no-go for me personally.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, you would just you would Okay. So, you wouldn't be okay with, you

know, taking out student loans for master's degree? >> No. Okay. No. >> Yeah. I'd get this paid off. And um man,

I wish we had a Ramsay dating app cuz I feel like we had a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single, Elijah, and they're always looking for a man and we could have pointed them your way.

>> I know. I know. No, I I I appreciate the

uh >> the the the proactiveness of love.

>> I do. I do >> with him because I do think that's great. >> I am for getting married young and you know, >> and what he said is true. Like when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like I gotta work. I got to go out after hours.

>> It's exhausting. You know, >> it's absolutely exhausting. >> You gotta go to an an event, get dressed up. College, it's like you got your pick right there. >> That right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah. I hope that helps. So, yeah, if there's not the cash, but to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash flow or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know, um you know, your work, that would be incredible, too. So, uh I hope that helps and yeah, good luck.

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So over on the debt-free stage we have

Christopher. Welcome Christopher.

>> Thank you Rachel. It's so nice to be here. >> I'm glad you're here. We have a lobby full of people and always when we see someone standing on the stage with the headphones we know we know that you've been on a debtree journey. That's right Christopher. Okay. So where are you from? Uh >> I currently live in East Providence, Rhode Island. >> Okay. Wonderful. All right. So how much debt have you paid off? >> $63,563.

Nice. >> Oh my gosh. to the tea. What kind of debt was it? >> Uh, mostly it was actually 50/50. Uh, credit card debt and car debt.

>> Okay. Credit cards and cars. >> How long did it take? >> 11 months. >> Wow. You were pedal to the metal. >> Yes, you were. How much were you making during that time? >> Uh, I went from 72,000 to about 80,000,

but with overtime, I'm set to close out about 110 this year.

>> Oh my god. >> I was working a lot. >> You were kicking it.

>> Yeah. Nothing. You just cut everything.

>> That was it. Uh, I actually I even sold the car. It was a brand new 2024. I was a little upside down. So, I did the one thing you say is okay with debt. Get a loan paid. >> And you know, >> so it's not a myth. Works.

>> It worked out. It was tough. I ended up buying an '05 Lexus for about $6,000.

>> Wow. >> And then a few months later, someone drove into it on my street.

>> Oh, shoot. Oh, look at that. It's good looking. How much were you upside down?

Uh, >> I was upside down about 4,000 5,000.

Okay. >> You are the poster child or poster man

adult of what we teach. I love hearing it. >> Oh, thank you. So, when that one got hit, I actually got about $8,000 from the insurance company and I was like, "How much how cheap of a car can I get?" So, I bought another car for uh $2,000.

I'll put the rest of it towards my credit cards. >> Stop it. Look at this. >> That's it right there, >> Christopher. >> And I said, "You know what? That's what I'm driving right now. Let's keep working." >> And it worked. A $2,000 car. How many

miles on it? >> 125,000. >> Man, oh man. >> And was it okay? >> It It runs great. >> Runs great. >> Manual transmission. It'll never die.

>> Let's go. LET'S GO. LET'S GO.

>> I WISH YOU would be in the passenger seat of every 25-year-old guy in America. Just be like, "Listen, y'all are always in the passenger seat." That That's how I learned. I'm actually a truck driver and I was listening to the Ramsey Show 12 hours a day, five or six days a week. That's how you do it.

>> And there were so many little pieces that were put together that made me realize this whole debt thing is really ridiculous. Why am I doing this to myself? >> Yes. >> So, yeah.

Wow. >> I'm glad you all do what you do and you don't regret a thing. >> Not one bit. >> So amazing.

Okay.

Yeah. What was it for you that you said, "Okay, I'm done. I'm gonna just completely change everything I've been doing. I have a brand new car.

I have some credit card debt and I'm going to just I'm going to change it." >> Yeah. Well, like I said, I've listened constantly. There were two things that stuck out in my mind. Um, I've been working 70 hours a week plus since I was 18 years old.

>> I heard Dr. John Deloney say one time very exasperated. You know, working 70 hours a week isn't sustainable. Baby steps one through three are meant to be intense.

After that, four, five, and six are supposed to be intentional. I was like, maybe that's why I feel so burnt out. 70 hours a week for 16 years, it's a lot. >> Yeah.

>> So, I said, you know what, that's the time.

>> I was like, yeah, I've been playing that for a long time. maybe I should stop doing that. So, it was time to just get it done. >> What was the hardest part? I want to know like it's one thing to hear it and then when you start doing it and you feel like the discomfort of it, what was the main like emotion that was holding you back? >> I would say swallowing my pride.

>> Uh like I said, I've been working very hard my whole life and to have to get rid of a brand new car that I really enjoyed. >> That was your gift to yourself.

>> Yeah. I just didn't need it. It wasn't a necessity. M >> I hear everyone say on here, "Oh, I had to go buy a new car." No, you didn't.

>> Save up for a couple weeks. Buy a clunker like that one. >> Man, you need to be behind this desk.

>> Let me know. >> You know, Christopher, for real, though, the that I think that's a great point.

The ego hates going backwards.

Absolutely. So it does it takes a level of humility to say what I was presenting to the world >> what I'm going to present actually from a mathematical standpoint is better but from a from a from a presentation image perspective it looks less >> right >> and so the ego doesn't like it very very difficult and so the fact that people that do it you know are serious and I think a level of maturity and humility that's really really amazing okay so have you turned down the hours of working 70 >> I have so far I'm planning on picking it back probably in March.

Uh I don't like driving in the snow up north.

Let's bring it down to 40 or 50. And >> yes, >> in the summertime, I I'll make some more money. And uh I'm I'm still working on baby step three. Once baby step four comes, I'll be good. >> Yeah. And you can upgrade from the $2,000 car. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Make some changes. Yeah. >> Okay. Have you been able to feel a difference since you >> huge difference? A couple years ago, I uh found out I had a panic disorder. So I have a little bit of anxiety. Mhm.

>> I think most of it was from my debt.

>> At that time, before I found the Ramsay Show, I had a house that was $400,000.

So, it was a lot that I had that just I didn't need. >> I ended up selling the house long before I found the Ramsey Show. And >> now it's just I feel a weight lifted off my chest and I can just breathe. I sleep better at night. >> Simplicity. >> That's it. >> That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Did you have some cheerleaders uh in your corner during college? >> Absolutely. My parents, Bob and Simone.

Um, all my friends up north, all my friends down here. I used to live in Clarksville for a while. Oh, >> yeah. >> So, I'm here visiting them and I figured, hey, come do a debtree scream.

>> Amazing. >> Yeah. At one point, I had 42 credit cards. >> Holy smokes. >> I was playing that game, building that credit score. >> Because, you know, I've heard Dave say it many times. Why do you get a credit card? To build your credit score. Why do you build your credit score? To get more debt. Why do you get more debt? To build your credit score. So, I was like, that's that's just foolish. I'm done.

>> Done. >> I closed every single account. Paid I had a balance on five. One was around 3,800, one was 4,000. The other, the last three were about 8,000, give or take a few hundred. From that point, I went to the avalanche method because they were so close. I was like, I'll pay off the one that's at 28%. These two have zero. We'll save a little bit.

>> Fine. So, once you save the 3 to 6 months, what are you going to do to celebrate? Because you, my friend, deserve celebration. >> I am going to continue saving to upgrade that hunk of junk. >> And what And what do you got your eye on? You know, the the car I sold was a 2024 Subaru Cross Trek.

>> My rental that I got here uh is an Outback, a Subaru Outback, and it's a lot more spacious. I kind of like that.

>> So, probably something like that or a Forester, anything. An SUV with all-wheel drive. >> Yes. Cuz you live in the snow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. Great. Okay. So, I do I'm going back to the 40. Was it 42?

>> 42. Yep. >> Okay. Credit cards. What was the one that you were like you could not wait to close out that you were like, I just >> Discover. >> Discover. I took I took that and I went snip snip.

>> Oh my gosh. Wow. So great.

>> You're a rock star, >> Christopher. Well done. Well done. Okay.

What would you say to someone who is listening? Maybe they're a Christopher.

Maybe they've just found the show and they're thinking >> what like gosh, I do have credit cards.

I have car loans. What would you say to them if they feel like there's no way I could I could do that? >> I would say just do it. What do you have to lose? Only your debt. You're just going to lose your debt. That's the worst case scenario. If you stop going into debt, you'll be good. Try your hardest. It's going to be hard. Harder for some, you know, easier for others.

And u just just keep doing it. If you keep pushing and keep pushing, >> struggle now so you can have a better life later. >> Yeah. >> Yes.

Talk about talk quickly about the adaptation. You took your car >> down to the dealership and got rid of it. >> That's right. >> How quickly did you adapt?

Like how quickly did you turn that corner from, oh, wo is me to, I'm fine with this $2,000 car? >> Pretty quickly. I I was I was upset like kind of a little bit, but I was uh my first car was a 95 uh Chevy pickup truck, >> and I loved it. So, I like older vehicles.

It's just now things are so new. They're safer. There's better features. So, you like the new stuff, too.

can fix anything on it. >> So, I don't need to take it to a mechanic. If something goes wrong, I just take it apart, replace a part, and >> Good point. You figure it out.

Figure it out. Wow. Well, Christopher, you've made our day. Absolutely.

I mean, no, for real. You >> you are the reason we do this. That's right. And you're living proof that it happens.

You know what I mean? And um Yeah. So whether Yeah. single, married, male, fe, whoever you are out there, this is the guy.

>> It's proof that you just can say, "If I just believe that I can do it and I start making changes, I can." >> That's right. Just do it. >> I can do it. Incredible.

All right. You ready, Christopher? >> I am. >> All right.

So, we got Christopher from Rhode Island.

>> $3 cars and credit cards in 11 months,

making 72 to 80 with overtime with

$110,000 a year. All right, Christopher, let's hear your debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 I'm debtree.

>> Oh, ladies and gentlemen, that's how it's done. That is how it's done. The poster man [Music]

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>> All righty. Today's question comes from Leila in Maine. She says, "When my

boyfriend sold his house and moved into mine, we agreed that he can buy into my house after a few years, which is now.

We plan on getting married at some point, but we're in no rush. He's giving me $75,000 to be part owner of the

house. What should I do with this money?

I already have an emergency fund and my only debt is $220,000 on a mortgage,

which will now be only half of my debt and about $5,000 on a 2% interest car loan. Should I put it all into a mutual fund, load up my IRA, or some mix of the

two? Um, I'm struggling, Ila, because you're asking one question, but I need to answer a different question than the one you're asking. Um, I would give

I would do one of two things. A here's my problem with the whole thing is the fact that you're not married in this house and you're exchanging money in a way and property in a way that married people do >> and really not even the way that married people do. It's all messed up. But um because you're not married, there's no protections here for you.

And the more that you co-mingle money into this, it's just going to make it more of a messy process. If for some reason this doesn't go down the path of marriage like you think because to your own point there's not even a rush to get married. So this is getting very messy very fast.

yeah >> until we get married. And if he wants to pay rent >> or pay something for living in your house because essentially that's what's happening. He's got to be okay with that because there doesn't need to be a level of commitment by buying into a a house if there's not a commitment to the relationship. >> Yes.

Well, and I'm assuming if he's going to be giving her this amount of money, does he want to be on the title like be part owner even legally? And that means you're then sharing a legal rights of a home with someone you're not married to. And as quickly as he says, "I love you today is as quick as you could fall out of love," he falls out of love. And again, because you're not married, there's zero protection.

He could just walk out the door and but now you guys are going to have to refinance a house to get his name off of it because you meet someone else and want to get married to this other person and got your ex-boyfriend on. It just turns into a mess. So, no. I mean, I wouldn't accept it.

I'm I'm with you, Jade. Um because again, I think I'm assuming by accepting this amount of money, he's going to want own legal ownership of the home to be put on some, you know, on the title. So, um so yeah, it's a it's a no for me.

too, you can do that. It just gets really messy really fast. And from a relational level, I will tell you >> studies are coming out more and more as well to show that actually divorce rates are much lower if you don't live together before. >> That's right. That's right. and the quality of marriage and the quality of relationship and everything is different when you're not just playing house and then deciding to finally commit. You actually go through the stages which is more old school but it's showing more and more from a relational standpoint.

It's more stable. So, >> and again that's not what you asked Ila but uh I'm with Jade. I wouldn't I wouldn't accept it. >> Yeah. And therefore I'm not going to answer the question you asked.

>> It's all love Ila. It's all love.

>> All right. Let's go to Jay in Atlanta,

Georgia. Hi Jay, welcome.

>> Hey, uh hello Miss Jade and Missil.

>> Well, hello Mr. Jay. How can we help today? >> Uh yes, I just had a question about investing in the Roth versus the uh

traditional 401k. Um, and only because

like I from my experience, uh, I've

invested in a 401k that for about a year

and, uh, it was about like $1,200 in

there, um, a couple of months ago, but also I had ended up losing my job, so I

just went ahead and sold it, and I got

back half. So, I was trying to see what

was different. So normally, yes. Okay.

So what we would normally say is if you leave a job, you want to roll over your 401k just to a traditional IRA. So

you're keeping the investments, you're just moving it out of the company's 401k. >> Um versus basically what Yeah. What you said, you just sold it. Yeah. And if it and if the market was kind of low at the time, you know, you may not have >> gotten, you know, fully what it was and probably paid some taxes and all of it.

So >> because it was retirement funds.

>> Yes. Yeah. So, um, yeah, you did get hit hard with some penalties. So, our rule of thumb with investing is did your 401k

at your previous employer, did it have a match built in? >> Uh, yes. It had about a 4% match.

>> 4% match. Okay, perfect. Do you have a new job now with a 401k currently?

>> Yes. Um, I have a a new job and they

actually match up to 30%.

>> Wow, that's great. That's great.

>> Okay, perfect. And is this one a Roth?

You asked about Roth versus traditional.

Is it a Roth 401k on this one?

>> Um I think so. Uh I that's another

thing. I'm not really sure the difference. And you know I just picked one. >> Yeah.

Uh >> if you have the choice, if there's if they're telling you you have the choice and I would ask I would make sure to get with HR and ask that question. I would select a Roth option because in that way you're paying the taxes on the money now so that when you go to retire all it's all tax-free growth which is great for you. So I would always select that.

The biggest question is if you're ready to be investing yet at this point.

>> So can you tell us a little bit about like do you have any debt? Do you own or rent your house? Tell us about that.

>> Yes. So I rent right now um my rent is

about 700 and other than that I have

child support that's about $400. Uh that

can vary >> and then my student loan repayment is

about $60 a month. Uh I put a extra 60

with it so it's about 120.

>> What's the whole what's the whole lump of debt? Uh, I just, um, well, so I found you guys about a year ago and I paid some stuff off, so I just got about 9.7K

left. I paid off about >> I started at 22. So, >> okay. Way to go. >> Nice, J. >> Anything else? Credit cards or cars?

>> Oh, yes. My groceries uh are about 200

and so >> uh yeah, that's it. >> No credit cards, no car note? No, I I

did open up a credit card last year and then I found you guys a month later and closed it. So, >> look at that. Do you have any money saved, Jade Jay?

>> Uh, yes. I have about 2.5 saved. Um, the

only thing is that's earmarked for a car right now. Um, I I work for a company and we we get company vehicles, so that comes out of my check, but um so I'm saving that 2.5 to just get another car

right now. car. Oh, because you've only been driving the company car, >> right? For the past year. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, what I would probably do, Jay, is just pause all retirement and work to

to throw as much money at this $9,700 that you have left in debt and then start working to bump up that emergency funds. Um, you know, you have 2500 in it. I know it's earmarked for a car. Um, but I would just I would get three month and you don't have a ton of um expenses monthto-month, which is great.

So, you could be on the three-month side. Um, that could be your baby step three. And then we can start looking at retirement, which will be 15% of your income into retirement. So, so like Jade said at the beginning of the call, the Roth, >> this is a picture I have.

This is my dad's teaching from the old old FPU, but it's the little coat. Do you remember this? He had like different jars like one was a IRA, one was a 401k, and then there's like a little coat that he put over each one. He was like the coat is the Roth.

So if you so so if your investment has a WTH around it that means you have funded those retirement accounts after you've paid taxes on your income. So you pay all your taxes and then after tax income then goes into those.

that money is coming out before you pay taxes on your income. And because of that the government has to tax you on that because they did not tax you earlier on your income. And then they tax you on all the growth. And if you know anything about compound interest, your investments will grow, grow, grow.

So Roth is amazing. Not everyone offers a Roth 401k, but if they offer it, like Jade said, take it and open up a Roth IRA and be putting 15% of your income into that. But that won't probably be for another two years, Jay, or year and a half after you pay off this debt and get a fully funded emergency fund. Um, but I'm so glad that you like you picked up the show and you actually are making progress. You paid off so much debt already, Jay. So just keep at it. You're doing incredible.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we are

taking your calls at88255225

and up next we have Les in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Les, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hi. What a pleasure to take speak with you. >> Oh well, thanks for calling in Les. How can we help today?

My question is, is there any rule of

thumb or percentage of how much of our assets we could have tied up in our home

versus cash? Our current situation is

I'm 72, my wife is 69.

Um, we still have income from our

business of 300,000 a year, but that will slowly curtail as

we enter more of a semi-retirement

mode.

But we're currently uh 2.5 million uh

net worth, 2 million cash, half million uh in the

home. Mhm. >> We were looking at a potential purchase

or upgrading or wouldn't this be nice in

a home. We're a little bit spoiled.

We've had two occasions where we've lived on the water on a lake.

>> Mhm. >> In our town, we have a small They call it a mountain, but it it it's a small mountain that is overlooking >> Yeah.

But it it has a limited number of of um

home sites. It's quite old.

A lot of the homes are quite old up there of about 120 overlooking the city

with mountain ranges in the west. And >> so you're wanting to upgrade upgrade from the 500,000 >> or second home. Second or upgrade?

>> No. No, it would be primary home.

>> Okay. What's it going to cost >> to get that house in the on the big hill? >> Well, if if if it if it doesn't stay

within 1 million or 1.1, then the deals

off the table. But then that would be a

shift of we'd have a million in the house and one and a half million in cash.

>> How long will you continue to draw the 300,000 and how quickly do you think it'll like what will be the rate of replenishment?

I would based on my predict projections

it it won't completely end but I

projected that in five it'd be 5 years before we'd even have to start drawing off of any

interest or anything in our investments.

>> Oh, five years. Okay, that's great. And in the meantime, will you continue to invest from the 300,000? Please say yes.

>> Oh. Oh, heavens yes.

>> I Yeah. >> Here's here's brief background story.

After um bankruptcy and foreclosure at age 57, my

wife's 54. We walked into a financial peace university class. Nothing to our

name. $320,000 in debt. Mhm.

>> Exactly 10 years almost to the day. We

said, well, we when Dave showed us the

path, we said, we're committing to this.

We're doing this almost 10 years.

Exactly. >> Wow. >> Uh we hit the first million, the next

five years, the second million. We're on track that the third million would be in three years.

>> Unbelievable. So >> gosh, less well done you guys. That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah.

So >> I am. >> Do you guys have >> grateful to you folks?

>> Oh well, no less. I mean, you're the one that did it. I mean, seriously. And what' you say? 20 years ago.

>> Uh, it'd be 16.

>> 16 years ago. Okay. Yeah.

>> Incredible. Yeah. So, I think from from the rough math, Yeah. if you guys are able to, you know, be able to get this

300,000 and I know you have to live on some of it, but yeah, in four years that could easily become another million >> um to throw in. So, I think if you guys keep it around that million dollar mark from just the rough math of even if you just didn't even add the other million, but you had the two million, you know, and if you're living off 6% or whatever it may be, I think you're you're going to be you guys will be totally fine. Uh do you have a good financial planner?

Uh, yes. I I kind of hesitate because

I've been kicking around just doing it myself, but >> Sure. Yes. >> No, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think Yeah, I think sitting down and kind of running out all the numbers with someone because if you're 72 and in good health, I mean, you could live another 20 years.

But I think Jay, did you um uh >> Yeah, I was just looking through it. I mean, you're you should be putting away at least 3,750 a month. Is that does that feel about right for you?

Uh yeah, currently >> or more.

>> We're putting away 150,000 a year.

>> Okay, great. And so you have to consider Yeah. lump sum is going to double every seven years. So let's say, like you said, it's at least 5 years that you'll continue to get that $300,000 income. So >> you know, it's going to incrementally reduce. >> Reduce. Okay. >> But what's it cost to what's it cost to run your household? You've got a lot of margin. Correct.

>> Right. Current current to run the household is 7,000, but >> yes, this points uh 2,800 of that a month is designated

to vacations.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Exactly. So, you've got plenty of margin. >> Not Yeah, that >> my point is you should do this. That's my point is you're going to have plenty of money. Um you guys have done well.

You've got a great income. It's going to dwindle, but it's still going to be a really great income for the next 5 years even as it continues to slowly go down.

Um I'm okay with the you're you're

doubling in house. Um and I I'm okay with it, Rachel. I'm I'm >> Yeah, I mean I think the million you have 500,000 in your primary home now.

It's just pulling out another 500,000 to upgrade to a million dollar home. And then you guys will have that 2 million in cash. Yeah. and then you'll be putting some money away continually and then I think from there yeah I mean I think you got a great nest egg >> and yeah I think you'd be totally fine

>> but again I think running all scenarios with somebody who's looking at the market looking at rates looking at how aggressive your funds are um how not

aggressive they're putting I mean whatever that you're invested in I would be running some long-term numbers um

because you know there is the the percentage of what you want to withdraw.

>> That makes sense from a historical perspective of what the market makes, right? So like of course one year, you know, or last year it was like 23% or something crazy. >> It was crazy. Yes.

>> Wild. Um and then some years it's going to do 8%. Right. So so to be able to find that happy medium and I know people have different percentages of their opinion.

Uh financial planners will be more conservative which is great. Uh I think Dave is a little aggressive when he says that you can pull out. He's like it's fine. The market's a big fine right.

Um, yeah, but be running those long numbers long term for you and your wife over the next, you know, map out 20 years and just see see what it brings you. But yeah, you should be you should be totally fine less. I think you're being very conservative.

when you start actually pulling some money from retirement of how much you actually need to pull when you don't have to pull a mortgage or rent. Like, man, that saves you a ton. That's right.

>> So, Les, well done. You and your sweet wife, I mean, 16 years ago, decided to change the game on what you guys do with your money, and it just proves that money is a long-term marathon, you guys.

But it works. If you do the right stuff over and over again, it works.

[Music]

[Music]

Well, you don't have to wait for Black Friday to get our Black Friday deals.

The sale is happening right now. It includes $12 best-selling hardcover books, $12 questions for humans decks,

uh, it's $6.99 audio books and ebooks, which is what I'm loving these days. >> Yes, indeed. >> Uh, $15 assessments and more. Just go to ramseyolutions.com/store, or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, we will leave a link in the description. All right, let's go to Kim in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> I'm left a single mom unemployed after a divorce after 26

years of marriage. >> Oh. >> Uh sadly I thought I'd be over it in two years, but doesn't happen always that easy, I guess, for some people. So, >> yeah, >> I'm at the stage where it's time

that my divorce decree claims I need to either get um my home in my own name

or sell it. >> Okay. >> Uh I have all the equity. I took that as alimony because I didn't want to disrupt I had seven children living at home at the time of the divorce.

>> Okay. And I I have two. I rented my

basement immediately like the week my divorce was final.

>> I put up a wall, rented the basement.

Um went, I'm going to make this happen. And now two years have passed and I'm trying to figure out how h I'm I feel like I'm

making baby steps, but I don't know how to make the big steps, I guess, or the big decisions.

>> Yeah, for sure. Um, how much equity is in the house, Kim?

So, it's an acre um in horse land

and

um uh property value quoted as 1.4 million.

I have to give a little off I'm sure for

the state of part of the back acreage and >> Okay. So, for 1.4 million, how much do you have left on the loan?

Um 450,000.

>> 450. Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment a month?

>> I pay 2880.

>> Okay.

>> How have you been handling that 2880 with with no income?

>> A divorce. Yeah. So we scheduled we we

mediated November of 23.

divorce was final January of 24 so that he could claim us on his taxes, which I just realized, oh, no

wonder that's going to affect my uh

college, my FAFSA anyway, right now. But that's a side note. The point is

I the minute I had an inkling he was

making decisions different than

for our family because we he used to have he owns a business that's worth a

few million and I chose to just walk

away and take equity in the home so I didn't have to disrupt my children.

>> Sure. How have you been paying for this m mortgage currently? Because this has happened and you've been living. >> I've been saving. I had I had um

I had about

$50,000 in savings.

>> Okay. So, you've just been pulling it out of there like >> and yeah, like somehow 400,000 turned into 40,000 what he could give me at divorce time and I said fine.

So he you were given 400,000. Did I hear

that right? >> No, we had that in the bank. He bought an Aston Martin. >> Understood. Um >> Anyway, we won't go into that part.

>> So you've been you had 50,000 in savings and you've been kind of just pulling it out every month to live and now it's gone. >> I have food storage. Yes. I sold jet skis. I sold my truck because I don't I

don't have any debt besides my home.

Never did. So, but my um so I'm living

off my truck payment right now. I'm going to accounting school and I'm um online. >> Okay, good. >> And I did get student loans. Um >> Oh, when will you be done with accounting school and able to work?

>> I have like a year. That's the problem.

I really think it's a self-esteem issue.

>> Well, have you >> he my unemployment? Yeah, >> I didn't get unemployment and he anyway

I'm it destroyed me. I I really I know

I'm smart. I can do it >> and you can.

>> And I figured out how to do all the accounting for his business for him.

And I was just a stay-at-home mom and I could have gotten the alimony of a stay-at-home mom. But then, oh, wait.

When you work for your for four years,

you're an able-bodied worker.

>> So, Whoops. >> Yeah. I want you Have you been in any counseling, Kim? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. I want you to continue with that because you're right. This is this is huge. >> Yeah. And Kim, what are are your kids all in school?

>> Well, yes.

>> Yeah. You're high schooler, freshman and senior. >> Perfect. Okay, great.

Because I was going to say I think it would just be good for you, Kim, to your point about self-esteem. There's something about going through the actions after something that's just horrific. I mean, I can't imagine. I think what you've walked through is so difficult.

It's so hard. I think it would I think it would take away anyone's self-esteem. I mean, like it just >> it's horrible. But I think there's something to be said about getting up in the morning, >> putting on an outfit, going and interacting with other people, and then coming home.

And and that may even be a receptionist at an accounting firm or something. You know what I mean? Like if there's a way to get your foot in the door just in that industry since you're going to school for it and make some connections, that's going to be really helpful, right? Um, but but to do anything, Kim, I mean, honestly, I think it would just be really healthy for you to get out of the house, earn some money, be around people >> and you're going to have to because you are running out of money.

So, there is the self-esteem issue of that it's good for you to do this and get some wins under your belt, but you also you're going to have to do this from a financial standpoint if you want to keep the house. Now, that's going to be a big question um to figure out if you can sustain this house. And and so you need to know, okay, a year from now, here's what I have to make full-time as an accountant starting out to be able to support this this mortgage payment, which you're going to need to make.

mean, gosh. Yeah. I mean, it's basically >> I put it off because I had a child with

anxiety that really struggled like

>> every day for 8th grade. We ended up doing like we're doing two periods a day. >> But you're okay. Are you in a place now though? I want to I know there's a lot that happened then, but I really want to focus on now.

>> Um, exactly.

>> And here's why. Let me tell you why.

Because here's why.

>> If you sell this house and you take a million dollars from it, I'm afraid that you'll just burn through that and not

work. And I don't want that for you.

>> And yeah, that's what I'm afraid, too.

That's exactly Thanks for putting that into words, >> you know. And so that's why I want you to take Rachel's advice. And today, this week, that be your number one priority is I'm going to look for receptionist jobs. And if I can't find a receptionist job, I'm going to look for another job answering phones.

And if I can't find that, I'm going to pick anything. Take anything. Local church. If there's a local church even to go get plugged into and work for them.

>> Um because Kim, to Jade's point, is so good because Kim goes with Kim. And if Kim stays the same and you're staying consistent and you get a million dollars in your lap, you continue to be Kim with a million dollars.

So, if we can get a better version, a healthier version of Kim and then even you make the call in a year or two to sell the house. Well, we have hardworking up and out of Kim who's, you

know what I mean, self- sustaining with a million dollars, which means you're going to be making really clear decisions when it comes to money. I think you still are in that fog which again I do not fault you for. I think when you walk through a divorce that grief is horrific and and having seven

kids that you're still thinking about.

Um I mean all of it it's very very difficult. So the fact that you're still grieving I would not >> I would not shame you for that and I don't think you need to be shamed you know shaming yourself. I think give yourself the freedom >> to still feel and experience what you're experiencing, but we also have to start making some moves to create a positivity

around us. And I think part of that is getting some quick wins. And I really do think there's a self-esteem boost when you earn and you do something and there's a cause and effect and you know I can do this cuz you can kill. You really, really can. So we are cheering you on. If you'll hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we're going to give you every dollar for a year to help you get this budget crunching when you start earning this income to figure out how to stay on track.

[Music]

[Music]

Well, it's not every day, Jade. We get two debtree screams.

>> What? >> In one show. And so, we are so excited that on the stage in the lobby on the debtree scream stage is Steve and Tanya.

Welcome you guys. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Rael. >> Absolutely. Okay. Where are you guys from? >> We are from Piedmont, Alabama, which is about an hour north of Birmingham.

>> Okay. So, close to Birmingham, Alabama.

Yes. >> Okay. So, how much debt have you guys paid off? >> 279,000.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. And how long did that take you?

>> 6 years, 10 months, and 27 days.

>> 27 days. Yes. And making what kind of

income during that time?

>> Um, when we started it was um 135.

>> Uhhuh. Uh we finished up at about 252,000. >> Wow. Very nice.

>> And what kind of debt was the 249,000?

>> Well, we had about 79,000. My house.

>> Yes. We had about 61 in consumer debt

like tractor, truck, little bit of credit card, and the rest was our house.

>> I KNOW. I KNOW YOU DID. OH, YOU paid off

the house. >> We did. Everything completely debtree in

six years, you guys. Yes. Wow.

>> Incredible. I mean, just below the sevenyear mark. You guys did great. You guys really Yeah. >> Amazing. You guys, congratulations.

Okay, so what happened six years ago to make you think we want to go on this crazy journey and pay off our house, >> right? >> Well, we actually got married um seven

years ago, I seven and a half years ago.

>> And so we were about to embark upon

building this house. And so, um, and we

had kind of I had gone to FPU years ago.

I kind of dabbled in the baby steps, but never really was aligned in that in that

marriage and just kind of struggled the whole way through it. When we got together, um, we just committed from day one that this is what we're going to do.

>> Oh, yeah. Lock st.

>> She says, "We're doing it." >> Yeah, >> we're doing it. Picture >> that. Oh, it's so good. Is that when y'all paid it off?

That was that the picture of when you did your last mortgage payment? >> Oh, I think they throw it back up there. So, >> so good. Okay, so uh so when you guys got married, you both did you guys talk about it a lot before you guys tied the knot?

Money in general because I do feel like people get nervous and if it's a second marriage too, right? We hear that a lot that people, oh gosh, I don't know if I kind of want to keep it over my stuff over here, >> his over there. How did you guys work that out?

we're going to do this. We're going to do this together no matter what. Yes.

You know, because I know in my past and in his, you know, we you know, we weren't on the same page. So, we definitely talked about faith, finances,

>> um family. So, >> the the three Fs you get. That's what you get. >> I love it. Well done, you guys. Okay.

So, what was what was the hardest part of all of this?

>> Um I think the hardest part is just choosing to live different. you know, everyone around you is doing all the things. Um, eating out, you know, doing

all the things. Like, we ate out on Tuesday night when tacos were $125.

>> That's the only time we ever ate out.

Yeah. >> You know, we packed our lunch every day.

Um, we bought our clothes at thrift stores and on eBay.

>> We sold things we didn't use. We We just We just chose to live differently. >> Did anybody ask questions? Like was it obvious to people around you like you're doing something different or were you kind of flying under the radar? No, I talked about it a lot. They were they were sick of hearing it. I know um my grown children were sick of hearing it.

My friends, my co-workers, I mean I just kept we kept laser focused and that's all that I thought about. That's and I tell you what really turned it around. We sat and did our written budget. We do the old school papers, the written budget.

>> And I asked Steve, I said, "Have you ever really tithed 10%? like, "Have you went all in?" And he's like, >> "No." And I was like, "We're doing it." And we did it. And when I tell you, promotions rolled in and raises. And I mean, it just >> oh my gosh, >> it just all came together.

I mean, we we were obedient. >> Yeah. >> Uh we were very disciplined, like you said. We we packed our lunch every day >> and um Yeah.

I'm so I'm so sick of Tupperware. >> Yeah. That's right. I know.

Well, what's funny? I was going to ask you guys, we always talk about baby steps one through three is intense. >> Yes. And then four through seven or four through six is kind of, you know, we say intentional, but it doesn't sound like you guys let up very much to pay off the house.

>> No, we we actually wound up um at the end we were paying $5,500 a month every

month on the house. >> Wow. Everything. We we didn't we didn't

let up once once we got I mean once we got um the savings in place then every spare dollar went to the house >> went to the house. >> So then I want to ask you the question that I hear all the time which is I mean six and a half years six years is a long time. How what how did you stay motivated? Like what was the thing that kept you going with that?

I mean $5,500 a month is a lot. >> That's a lot. It was little wins.

Um, I sold things. I s people were sick of me on Facebook.

>> I I'm going to find the money to do this. >> Tanya's like, there's Tanya again selling something. >> I would buy decor and just flip it. But we followed the baby steps.

>> I love that. >> Just to the tea. Yes.

>> And I was kind of like you, Jade. Like I always heard, you know, we ain't got no money. I mean, I was raised, you know, paycheck to paycheck. and and I literally changed my family tree and I'm leaving a legacy to we're leaving a legacy to our >> children's children. >> Yes. Incredible.

>> Wow. That decision to Yeah. to live differently. What you were saying, Steph, I'm like, it's just it's so powerful. So powerful.

>> Um Okay. So, what would you tell a couple that's listening and maybe they're in your stage of life, right?

And they are have they've walked a similar story to you guys and they're thinking, "Oh gosh, but there's no way.

Like, I don't know. I I I don't think we can change. I don't know if we can do something different." What what encouragement or motivation would you give them to say, "Yes, you can do something that is totally different than maybe how you what you ever done with money and you could even have a paidoff house." >> Well, for me, I mean, I I mean, I basically started over when I was 55 years old and you know, so my message is that it's not too late. >> Yes.

>> You know, you can you can turn things around. You know, I was not in a position >> where I mean where I wanted to be. And I mean back to the motivation question. I mean my motivation was that I want to retire before I'm 65, you know.

Good. >> And so >> yeah, mine was um you know, like I said,

I just wanted to do something completely different than than how I was raised or how my family I I wanted to make sure, you know, my children >> have the things that they needed and they see me as an example and um and also grandchildren, you know, and I just um Yeah. Yeah. I just refused to stay

the same. >> That's right. So, how are you going to celebrate? What's the big thing that you guys are going to do to put a big bow on this? >> Well, when I turned 50, he took me to Hawaii. So, we have, you know, once we were out of debt, >> we we saved and paid cash and um so we've we've done some trips. We love to travel. >> Um generosity is huge.

>> Yeah, that was us in Montana. >> So, good. Um, we're um, generosity is

huge and just enjoy and travel and

>> beautiful, >> you know, live like no one else.

>> I hope youall enjoy a Nashville night tonight. I hope y'all I hope y'all get to celebrate doing the Step Free Scream because it's incredible. And your your story is so inspiring to so many people that Yeah. anyone can do it. You know, it's just like if you just got to believe and you got to stay consistent.

Like that's what I heard too, which is incredible. >> All right, you guys. Are you ready?

We've got uh we got Steve, Tanya from right outside of Birmingham. Paid off $279,000 which includes their house and they did it in 6 years, 10 months, and 27 days

making 135 to 250. All right, you guys

count it down. Let's hear your big debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

[Music] >> Oh my gosh. So good. Do you know what I love about that is, you know, they both said they had been married before, second marriages, >> and there is and and Steve said, you know, I had to start over at 55.

>> Mhm. >> And there's just something about this redemption that that you get to it's a second chance. There is something that I can still change what I've done. And because of that, still their grown kids are watching them.

>> That's right. Um, and then their children's children, you know, just like what Tanya was saying, there's just something beautiful about that legacy that even when when hardship happens and occurs, which it has in all of our stories, >> but you can still change something. And that redemption is so beautiful for what they've done. Such encouragement and so excited for them.

Well done.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 14:23.

In all toil there is profit, but mere

talk tends only to poverty. And Lander

said, "No one, nobody ever drowned in

his own sweat." >> Oh boy. >> Well, what a picture that is. But I guess it's true. I guess it's true. Work hard, people. Work hard. Dramatic.

>> The grit. The grit is good.

>> All right, let's go to Lisa in Charlottes. Hi Lisa, welcome to the show. >> Thank you. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, my husband and I, we have between our Roth um IRA and our 401k, he has

535,000 and I have 275,000 plus 200 um in a CD.

>> Okay. And I think we messed up during the pandemic when um at the beginning when it took like a big dive. I got nervous because um I'm on disability

right now. I got I have lupus back.

>> Okay. >> And so we're not contributing to our um

IRA anymore. And so what we I did is I

moved everything. I kept it in the Roth IRA and mutual funds, but I took it out of the stock market. So, it's kind of been sitting there earning a little uh less interest. So, I'm wondering if we

messed up for retirement or if we should move it back into the stock market at our age or what we should do.

>> So, the 535 and the 275 are no longer invested.

>> They are, but not in the stock market.

They're more in a secure. I put them in um CDs, so four and fiveyear CDs. So,

they're earning uh four and 5% interest.

>> Oh, yeah.

Okay. So, not to just lay it on, Lisa,

but did you make a mistake? The answer would be yes, because I just want to use this as a teaching example that what you did, you know, is pretty normal. People do freak out if they start to see a dip in the market. They're like, "Oh, dear God." And they pull their money out or they put it somewhere else.

And what we always say is the only person that gets hurt on a roller coaster ride is the person that jumps off. And essentially, Lisa, you did you you jumped off because the last, you know, few years have been 23%. I mean, it's been like it's been crazy. So, it would have been um I mean, yeah.

Yeah.

you would have earned. So, did you make a mistake? I'm going to say yes because I think long-term investing, you just stay in. Whether it goes down and you get freaked out, just stay on the roller coaster because it's going to go up and down.

It's what the market does. But when you pull your money out, uh, if you pulled it all the way out, which I can't tell if quite what you I don't I don't know exactly how that transfer looks. >> I didn't I didn't pull it out where I'm paying taxes >> is on it. Yeah.

So, it's still under the 401k market. Yes.

difficult now um is when because I am

going to say yes, put your money back in. You're now going to be buying back in at the top where you would have, you know, you would have lost all those returns. So, >> it's not too late. We can you can still get back in, Lisa.

So, I didn't mean to harp on you, but I did want to make that a kind of a teaching point because what you did was very common. People do that a lot. >> Um, but just not to freak out next time because, >> you know, you guys did lose out on a on a on a lot of interest that you could have earned. So, what I would do is Yes, I would get back in.

How old are you guys?

>> And 59. Okay, perfect. Yes.

>> That's what we're worried about is retire. Retirement like we don't want to go back in and then worry a little bit about about that. But our house is is almost um paid paid off,

so we feel better about that. But we still we owe um 168,000 left

>> on your house. Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> Um so again, right now I'm not So he

makes 122,000 and I get about 30,000

with my social security. >> Oh, that's right. Okay, perfect. Okay, that's great. So you guys, it's about 150. Um and then Yeah. So, I'm just

thinking, you know, at 54, 59, I mean,

you guys, you know, I mean, it could be another 30 years, 35 years that you guys live, you know, if you're if you guys are um, you know, healthy and doing all the things. So, that's why you still have a long-term, if you will, >> um, time to get back in the market that even if it does dip for a little bit, a few years, think you got you got, you know, just picture 30 years as an example of what you guys have to kind of ride this out. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And am I if I'm understanding the numbers right, you you have a million dollars, right?

>> 900 our house is worth and we owe just

168 left at 2.5% interest. So I haven't

been paying that much extra on that right now just because our interest is so low. >> Right. But just the CDs alone, the 535, the 275, and the 200. Did I get those numbers right?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So, if you're saying, "Hey, today I'm going to plug in a million dollars." >> That's not bad, right?

I mean, of course, keep three to six months out in cash, but I you're going to be just fine. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Put that money in.

And I would, Lisa, I think you're a little hesitant to even get back in the market, but I would because if you think about even Okay, in your house, you got to get aggressive on that house, Lisa. Even if it's two and a half%, you're making 3% on your CDs. You guys are, you know, you're paying what you're making and you're kind of just Yes. You're you have a wash right now.

aggressive on paying off the house and

then we just talked to a couple. We l had debt free scream that they, you know, they paid theirs off, which is amazing. So, um, so it can be done. So, I would do that.

And then I would I would even sit down. We have great Smart Vuster pros there in Charlotte and I would sit down with someone and look to see and tell them about about, you know, a little bit of your nerves around the you feel like it's risky, like you don't want to lose your retirement, you know, these kind of things because a lot of people can feel that way. But what I want you to do is listen to someone that you trust, someone that you like. You know, find a financial planner that you actually, I think, personally enjoy because I think it's important that you trust them.

>> Um, and let them show you some of these numbers and to be able to say, "Hey, here's the facts of the track record of the market >> um on the on Yeah, with the co I mean, what was the stats? We we taught on this. Gosh, it's been five years now, but when it went down, I think it only took nine months to get back to what where it was and beyond. You know what I mean?

So like even that was a quick when you look at these massive um you know 0807 was a little bit different but you look at you know things like COVID September 11th you look at these >> major events that do take kind of a dip but then a lot of them return so quickly that the news doesn't talk about it that it all gets back up you know within a few months. So um >> so I do want you to to do some digging and some learning when it comes to it because it is worth it.

Uh, Lisa, you guys still have plenty of years ahead of you that you guys could really be making some gains when it comes to your money versus it just sitting in CDs. I mean, honestly, I think that's one of um it'll be a detriment long term.

And then you'll see, oh gosh, >> the justosition. >> Yes. And you'll I think that'll help with some of the nerves to say, well, everybody who stayed in is actually doing better >> ahead.

So, yep. So, yes.

>> And then as far as the house goes, you do recommend paying because I have money in a CD. I could >> Yes. >> When that expires, I could just pay the house off since the interest rate was low. Okay. No, I would do recommend.

Okay. >> You got to account for the peace that the peace part of that. You guys are, you know, your husband's about to be in his 60s. There's nothing better than having no payments in the world and owning the place where you live in.

>> Okay, great. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Lisa, for the call. We we appreciate it. Yeah, there is um that house portion is um it's an

interesting one because I think every single person we've talked to, Jade, >> that sounds extreme because we've talked to a lot of Yeah. tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that have paid off their home at events or been here on the debtree stage or contacting us on >> on uh social or something to let us know. I mean, I have not gotten one message or one comment that someone who pays off their house regrets it.

>> That's right. No one has ever said, "Man, I wish I had >> I wish I still had my mortgage. Oh, I just wish I still had my mortgage." Because here's the thing, too. You can always go back and get another mortgage if you want to. You can go back and borrow on your house once it's paid off.

So, and from a mathematical standpoint,

you know, the game is that people play that I can make more in the market than what I'm actually, you know, invested in if a two and a half% interest rate, but I could be making 15% in the market, you know, my gosh, like I have this huge spread. >> Um, but what doesn't Yeah. What you can't calculate, what you can't put in a spreadsheet or a formula is that peace of mind of knowing that >> my house I I I don't owe anyone anything. And there's something so powerful about the autonomy >> of our money.

>> Absolutely. And then I think about I mean this is just worst case scenario, but I think about the person who doesn't pay off their house and they go into retirement and suppose you go into retirement in a really down or really low year. Now you've got less money in your accounts currently and you've got your mortgage and this whole life of debt to keep up. So there are things to think about.

>> Absolutely. Such a great point. But yeah, Lisa, thanks for the call and I think that's a great you're a great example of what people are feeling and thinking sometimes. And so, uh, I really appreciate you calling in.

All right, Jade, thanks for the show as always.

thanks to our audience that always comes and visits us. We so appreciate you guys there in the lobby. Thanks to everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 6. A Late Start Doesn’t Mean a Lost Cause | January 19, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsay

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsay Show

alongside the Natalie Attired George Camel >> bringing out another beautiful winter

shet. Love seeing the shet make an appearance. Uh just happy to be alongside my good friend George Camel.

I'm Ken Coleman and we have a fantastic studio audience today out in the lobby.

I got to tell you, they they just look like they're excited to be alive and here. And so, we're grateful to see you all as well. Handsome audience out there, George. >> Absolutely. >> Let's go to Ann who starts us off in Cincinnati, Ohio. Ann, how can we help?

>> Um, so, um, I am 50 years old. I have no

retirement, no savings, nothing.

Um, I am not, I'll be honest, I'm not good with money. Um, growing up, I don't have a relationship with my family.

Never been taught how to manage money,

how to budget, and I would like to start 2026 doing that. And I'm just overwhelmed with how to start, where to start. I know the snowball, the dead snowball. I just, you know, I also have health um

conditions where I was out of work for a month in October. I was in the hospital and it's just it's snowball and I feel like I just can't catch my breath and I I don't know where to start or what to do. >> Okay. Well, you came to the right place and we're going to start with two words.

It's possible because you understand the

baby steps, but the idea of how to actually make it work for you seems like an absolute impossibility. True or false? >> That is true. >> Okay, great. So, >> that is true. >> We start with it's possible. All right.

So, George, let's do our thing. Let's get into the details. Let's get some numbers. >> And the fact that you even decided this at 50 is amazing because I know you think it's too late for you, but there's someone who's going to call in probably today who goes, "Hey, I'm 62 and I got nothing saved." So, Ann's doing great.

She's got a 12-year head start. And so, it very much is possible. And we're going to dig into the numbers here to give you a tactical plan. So, are you working full-time right now?

>> Yes, I am. >> Okay. What do you make? What do you bring home every month?

Um, I bring home right about 1,400

a month. Okay. A pay period, which is

every two weeks. >> So, 28?

>> Yes. >> Great. And are you renting right now?

>> I rent. Yes. >> What's your rent?

>> 15.

>> Okay. So, there's I'm just throwing up the flags. Flag number one, over half of your income is going towards rent. So, there's one problem to solve. We'll put a pin in that. Now tell me about your debt. How much debt do you have?

>> My debt is um medical bills and then

again one of the worst things you could possibly do is like payday advances with

incredibly high interest rates.

>> What's the balance of those?

>> Balance of those is 10.

>> 10k total between the medical debt and payday. >> Okay. Uh, no. Between the the medical debt is right around 15 and then the

cash advances is 10.

>> Okay. Any other debt?

>> No, I do not have any credit cards. I don't have any of that. >> What do you do for a living?

>> I work in a medical office building.

>> Doing what? >> I'm kind of like a patient advocate type thing. Like receptionist. I work with patients. >> Are you hourly or is that your salary that we we got from you? >> I am hourly. What is that rate?

>> 2377.

>> Okay. Um and and and then I'm I'm

curious about your physical stuff that's going on. Are you on the other side of that? Is that going to be a lingering thing that will cause issues for you?

Because you've mentioned it.

>> That will be something that will linger.

>> Does that affect your ability to work?

>> No, there are times that I have to be off, but no. Okay. But they saw you're still pulling 40 hours a week and all that. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Now, what other bills do you have?

Because are you are you going, you know, kind of beyond the pale here into the red every month because you don't have enough money with the 2,800. And so that's you're turning to payday loans to fund the gap. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Because I have electric, gas, internet, cable, car insurance, and a car payment. No.

>> Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

>> Uh, none. >> Okay, good. We got to focus to on this debt. >> Yeah, we didn't catch the car debt. All I heard was the payday loan and medical debt. What's the car debt? >> I apolog.

>> And what is it worth?

>> Um, it's a 2022. I would say it's

probably worth. I mean, I I really haven't looked it up. >> Hey, homework assignment number one because if we can get out of this car,

we just gave you uh over a $5,000 raise.

Are you tracking with me real numbers here, Ann? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I'm telling you, Kelly Blue Book is what we're looking for to sell this thing. And uh and and and then then

you're going to uh get a you know, cheap

car. So, let's say you've got I'm hoping What kind of car is this? A 2022 what?

>> Uh Kia K5.

>> Okay. And you owe 16 on it. So, let's

say you come away with four or five grand in equity. That's what you're doing. That's what you're putting towards another car. And now you saved yourself 450 bucks a month immediately.

Okay. >> Okay. For your budget's huge. And George, I'm jumping in and getting ahead of the game here. Now, this is great, but what's your what's your apartment situation? Are you in a lease? When is that up?

Um, it's actually a it's a home. It's a

three-bedroom, one bath home. It is up in April. >> Okay. You don't need a three-bedroom home.

>> You're Yes. >> Unless you have two roommates. Okay.

Fantastic.

That's where I was going. That'll cut you down to 500 bucks a month, wouldn't it? Your share.

>> Uh, yeah. around here. A one-bedroom is

about uh 1,100,000

to,100.

>> What about What about some elderly couple or an an elderly lady who's got a room over a garage? I just believe in most cities in America, you can get below a,000 bucks a month if you find something like that. Am I Am I nuts? Okay, >> tell me if I'm wrong. But the the other thing is so our parameter for your rent, your mortgage is a quarter of your after tax monthly income. And so for you,

>> we're talking about 750 is really where you're going to max out in order to accomplish any financial goals.

>> And so as long as you're in this lease, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. As long as you have this car, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. But see what we're doing, Ann? We're looking at all the things that you can actually control even though it feels like they are immovable objects.

Well, I got to have a car. Yeah, but you don't need a 2022 car. You could have a 2013 and still >> I'm not even driving a 2022. I got to have an apartment and they're expensive.

Sure, but you have three bedrooms and you only need one. So, let's get two roommates. Go on Facebook, find an air, you know, if you're in Cincinnati, jump on. There's a Cincinnati roommate Facebook group and vet them.

Interview them.

It's going to be 500 bucks plus utilities." And all of a sudden, you just cut $1,000 off your rent. And if you sell the car, you just cut $500 there. That's $1,500 extra dollars a month you would have. You understand what we just did?

>> Yes. >> Your $41,000 in debt. If you could throw 1,500 at the debt, you're done in 27 months if you do nothing else. And I would cut cable yesterday cuz we're not going to be watching the latest season of Survivor. >> We got to probably get a second job on top of that. I want more work.

>> Nights and weekends. >> That's it. More income on top of all of this. George, what can we give her?

>> Every dollar is a great start. And I'm going to give you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through the entire plan with tons of ideas to help create that margin. Hang on the line in.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying. You know, all those things you have to do, all those things you think you should do, all of the past hurts, all the past pains, all the past guilt and shame, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider maybe for the first time setting down that old weight and choosing not to carry it forward into 2026.

Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on who you want to become in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, check out my friends at BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHel is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world, trusted by millions. They have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of five.

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All right, next we go to Samantha who's joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Samantha, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate you taking the time to take my call. >> Sure. Um, so my husband and I got married last year and we're currently on baby step number two. Um, I didn't think we had

that much debt and so I was like, "Oh, we can get this paid off quick. It's going to be great." Um, well, when my husband graduated high school, he had an agreement with his mom that if he went to college that she would pay for it, which is amazing. Um, I thought um, she

must have like paid it out of pocket or got a personal loan. Um, but it wasn't until about three months ago when my husband checked his credit score to find his credit had dropped drastically and that that's when I learned his college was paid through a federal student loan in his name and his mom had stopped making the payments. Um, when he asked

her about it, she said that she forgot about them and she would start paying them again. Well, since then she's continued to forget and um I told him and she told my husband that um we need to call and ask for a lower payment plan um so she can afford it. Um I want to just take over the payments ourselves uh since it's his loan and pay the student loans off ourselves, but um my mother-in-law wants to pay for it and she doesn't want us to pay them, but she keeps for like kind of forgetting and kind of ruining his credit score.

And um we're hoping to build a house soon or buy a house. Um but we can't do that with his credit being where it is.

um you know us getting any sort of loan.

Um and I'm also worried that if you know

we pay them and tell or she could pay us back, I'm worried it'll become one of those like oh borrowing money from family type situations and it'll put a strain on the relationship. Overall, it just feels like a very yucky situation.

So, I was hoping to ask for some advice.

>> Do you think in any way that your

mother-in-law is playing some passive aggressive game here?

>> Um, I don't want to say that. No. Um,

she's a >> Oh, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Now, see, I've been doing this too long. So, now you just told me something without telling me something.

>> I'm not saying that she is. I'm feeling

that it's possible. And when I asked you if you think she's doing that, you went, well, I don't want to say that. But that to me says, you think it's very possible

and I think it's possible. In other words, here's what's not computing for me. Um, she keeps forgetting

and then she reaches out and says, "Hey, can you call them and see if they can lower the payment?" So, a person who said like like I don't think she's forgetting >> and then I also don't buy the idea that

when you said to her, "Well, we'll take over and we'll pay it." And she goes, "No, no, no, no. I want to pay it." I don't think she wants to pay it.

>> And I think and I actually don't think >> and George, you can come over the top ropes here and Samantha, you can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm giving you my gut read here. Uh, I I I think she wants you

to forcefully take this thing. Like, I think she wants you to take it, but she feels shame. She's embarrassed. I think there's a lot of emotion going into this. And her resisting is really not

resisting. She wants you to be, and when I say forceful, I don't mean ugly. I just mean I think she wants you to go, "No, listen, listen. It's okay. You've been great. Blah blah blah blah blah.

We're going to take it. Mom, it's my loan. We're going to do it." I think she wants you to do that. I don't believe that if you were to do that, it's going to break the relationship at all.

>> Sure. >> That's my take. >> Yeah. And that's what I was thinking too. Um I was thinking that, you know, if anything, it helps her out. Obviously, >> 100%. >> I think there there might be like a sense of pride there, you know, that's like, hey, no, I want to take care of my son. I know that it was a very hard transition for her when we got married.

Um she had a really hard time with it.

Um and she kept telling my family, >> whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. She had a hard time when you guys got married.

>> Well, she just not like a hard time like I mean we get along and I go over there every week, you know, we're great. We're very civil and all that, but um she just kept telling my husband that it just felt like she lost him to me and all of this. And so it was very hard for me.

>> Now I know I'm right. Now, now it's not a feeling. Everything I just said is completely fact. You could chisel it in stone. This is a passive aggressive

thing. And you guys have got to be the adults here and create the boundary.

I'll shut up because I've now said my piece, George. But boy, do I know I'm right now. Let's let's put some tactical pieces on this. You need to take over these payments and go, "Well, we didn't know we were in debt, but we're in debt." And that means we're not ready to buy a home.

And that stinks. And you have every right to be angry and upset and frustrated with mom for her irresponsibility. frustrated with your husband for not knowing all these years that he had these debts in his name, which by the way, if they're in his name, he signed some paperwork. And so, >> Sure.

it's fair to trust to trust your parents, trust the people. I mean, I remember when I got my student loans, they were just like, "Yeah, sign here. You're good to go." And I was like, "Oh, okay." You know, and I did it because that was just, you know, what they told me to do. Yeah. >> So, I just think, you know, and I don't like that about student loans. We just sign, you know, basically everything away when we jump out of high school.

>> Preaching to the choir here, Samantha.

>> There's a lot of there's a lot of predatory stuff going on there. That's for another day. But right now, the issue is mom can't pay and you need to

take this on because it's hurting your household. So now it's about protecting your household. >> Yeah. >> And so you don't need to have a blowup conversation with mom. You just need to say, "Hey, we're going to take over the payments. Thanks for what you've done so far. We got this." >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And now how much how much do you have left? >> So I was about to say I also have uh student loans. He has 17 around $17,000 in student loans. I personally have $12,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. >> Um and I my student loans right now are

in forbearance. Um they're in some sort of save plan which some federal court um

you know hasn't decided on the payment plans. And so they are every time I've called they're like no no payments are necessary. I log into like my federal student loan account and whatnot and um it says no payments are due until 2027,

but I was looking at it the other day and I noticed that it's still inquiring like acrewing interest.

>> Yeah, forbearance acrews interest. I don't know. You you missed that in the fine print, but that's the issue with these save plans. People think, oh my gosh, thank you government as your balloon your your balance balloons unbeknownst to you. So that's like a very low payment, but it's our big like currently other than his student loans, that's our biggest debt. >> What other debts do you have? You got 17, 12. What else?

>> So I've got um my vehicle has a little

over $5,000 left on it, which I plan to pay off in a couple of months. Um and then his has 9,000.

And then I have a credit card that has right at 9,000.

And then um we have furniture that we

bought when we were freshly newly wed. I know it's kind of a stupid thing, but >> How long you been married?

>> Uh now we got married in May of 2025. So

not even a year. >> Oh my gosh, you guys are truly newly wed. >> Yes, truly we are. And I'm trying to do it the right way and get everything.

>> What's your household income?

>> Yeah. So we bring in $7,000 a month.

>> Okay, good. So here's the deal. You're going to list all these debts out. You're going to have a Come to Jesus meeting tonight and list out all the debts, smallest to largest. Break them out individually. Not 12,000 in student loans, but hey, there's seven with all these different balances. I don't care whose debt it is. We're going to list them all smallest to largest balance and then we're going to attack the little one. Do you guys have anything in savings right now?

>> Yes, we have about $4,400 in savings at the moment. >> Great. So, baby step $1,000 starter emergency fund, which means 3,400 can go towards knocking out a few of these debts. >> Sure. And do you still have the credit card open? Is it in your wallet right now? >> Yes, but I don't use it. I have not used it. It's a It's already cut up. Last year I actually led a Ramsay class and

um I taught a Ramsey class and I cut up my credit card then. >> Good. Okay. Have you guys made progress since then on this on these debts?

>> We have. >> Yes, we have. >> Okay. What's been your plan thus far?

Like are you doing the debt snowball?

Are you doing an every dollar budget?

>> Yeah, we're doing the debt snowball. Um, I my bank doesn't connect to the Every Dollar app for some reason. So, but I've been I have a notes app and I check our transactions every single night and I take it out of each each line item.

>> Okay.

Well, this was one of these, you know, you you had a pile of debt and now we just added to it and so we just it's just going to delay the the debtfree journey, but at least you are clear on where you stand.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. I really appreciate your help. >> Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for calling. And I was thinking as you were talking to her about the uh you know the government

trusting the delay. You're like oh thank you government. Yeah. >> It reminded me of the old phrase politicians are the only people that when their hands are cold they put their hands in your pocket. >> Oh that's a good analogy right there.

>> I love that. Sorry. I just had to get that out. That's just an equal opportunity offensive statement. I don't care what party you're in. They all they just put their hands in your pocket.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

All right, George, we're going to your old neck of the woods, Boston, Massachusetts. Tiffany's waiting for us there. Tiffany, how can we help?

>> Hi there. Hi. So, um, funny, my we moved

to Boston in 2022 from Charlotte, North

Carolina, and we planned on staying here, you know, for the long haul. Um,

but we got calls that my job was being moved back to Charlotte, North Carolina, and my husband got offered a leadership role with his group in Charlotte. And we're like, >> "Wow, that worked out. >> What are the chances within the same day, within an hour, um, you know, let's

sell the house and move back to Boston, I mean, move back to Charlotte with our family and whatnot." So, we're walking

away with about probably close to a little over 300,000 from selling our home. Um, and I'm torn on what to do

next. We're limited in our buying pool

because of schools. My son's getting ready to enter middle school. We don't want to, you know, we rather bring him back to where he knows everybody and whatnot. But I don't see myself or see us staying there after he graduates high school. So, I was crunching some numbers over the last week or so and I'm like, does it make sense to buy another house in Charlotte or to rent um because, you know, and

maybe invest or maybe buy a house that's

maybe we see more long-term or, you know, on the coast or whatnot. So, I'm kind of torn on which direction we should take.

>> How will that a couple quick clarifying questions? He's just starting middle school. So, we what are we saying? Five years, six years.

>> Exactly. Seven. I'm thinking like six to seven years. >> Six to seven. And then Okay, let's fast forward. >> Neighborhood. >> Okay, great. Let's fast forward. It's his senior year, final semester. Um

>> and you guys are moving to wherever or you're in preparation to move wherever. What how does that affect your jobs? Can you do those jobs remote or you guys check cashing out of that, too?

>> Yeah. So, I guess it just depends on So,

we make very good money. um we'll be actually getting an increase when we move back to Charlotte and cost of living is drastically different there.

Um >> what will your combined incomes be?

>> Yeah, it will be about 350.

>> Okay. All right. Keep going. So, so yeah, can you stay with this company or or how's that work? >> Yeah, we can stay with the company. Um we, you know, work for major financial institutions that are all around, you know, the country.

>> Um you know, my husband loves the job.

So even we're okay with even staying in North Carolina, staying in Charlotte, but maybe just not that where we, you

know, >> where you would where you would be for 5 to seven years. I totally understand.

>> So you got to stomach it for seven years so that he can go to the the school you want him to go to. Right. >> It's a good question. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm going to I'm going to defer I've got an opinion, but I'm going to defer to my financial guru buddy next to me.

>> Here's how you're you have a strong financial position. You guys have no debt and savings, and you'll have 300 grand. Yep. >> I would buy a house and I would pay it off. >> You have a car loan.

>> Yeah, we do have two cars.

>> I would clean that up as soon as possible. Probably before you sell the house with your in your fantastic income. Just knock it out. And once you guys you know sell the house, I would just move as soon as you could and uh you know to buy a house and you put 300,000 down. What is a house going to cost in that area?

>> Yeah. So we were looking in like the 400 range. 400 to 500. Oh, okay.

>> We didn't want to go anywhere crazy like here in Boston where we have, you know, we're in the 1.3 we're looking this month where I was like, >> I'm trying to split the difference. Could you get a $550 $600,000 home that

you love that you could see yourself in for a decade? >> Well, see, I don't like the houses that

I knew. You've been in Boston.

>> You hate your She does. Let me let me say this, Tiffany, so you don't have to.

Uh, we're doing this for a kiddo because of his friends, but she don't like that area very much. >> What area is this? Am I right?

>> You are. >> Yeah. No, don't buy I would buy the cheapest house possible is what I was going to say. >> I was thinking >> 100%.

I'd go smaller and cheaper than you'd even think just because >> it's temporary, but I think it's long enough that buying does make sense. I would never rent that long. So, I'm with George on that. But I was thinking, let's go as small and as cheap as you can stomach because you're only doing this for >> Tiffany's going to call back in two years and say, I hate this house.

>> No, she's focused. She's thinking about the next house. The other thing to think about is is resale value of what is an area that actually is going to grow and appreciate. So, this is a good financial decision as well. >> That's what concerns me. So, I've been doing a lot of I like to crunch numbers and I was looking at the resale value.

Right now, everyone in that area who purchased during the boom of 2019 are upside down on their homes. So, I'm like, >> what is going on in this area then? This is the area with great a great school that you want your kid to go to. I don't think it's a great school. It's just the school he knows.

>> It it is a good school. Um, I'll call it a good school. It is a great school.

Highly rated. >> Wait a second. You can't call it good and great. I just feel like kids are resilient. If it's a wonderful neighborhood with a great school, he can flourish. >> I'm playing with you, Tiffany. I'm having fun with you. It's It's I'm having a blast today. Here's the deal.

>> Because of that, I I believe that you should go smaller and cheaper. In other words, so let's say the top the top level houses are 400, right? >> Top level houses are probably closer to the eights. Oh, I was thinking the four That's the cheaper the 450 is what I was thinking. >> But I know but you're saying those are the ones where people are are under they're they're underwater. >> Underwater. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'm saying like what is it just you hubs and the kid?

>> Yeah. We We're small. We're three. I'm going to tell you something. I don't even want a big house. >> See? Okay. Listen. I'm going to tell you something. And this is me and that's what Dave has trained us to do is to answer these questions obviously within our principles. But but how we would do it and I'm if I'm you, I would because

this is a limited amount of time and your mind is already on the coast. I mean you I you got the four S's in your head. I think sun, sand, sea, and salt.

Am I right? >> Yep. >> Come on. You're my kind of person.

That's how I like to roll. >> That's why I moved to a cute little coastal town outside of Boston. I'm like, >> by the way, you're completely addicted once that sea water that gets in your in your can't go inland. So, here's the deal. Because of that, >> uh, George, Tiffany, I, if it were me,

I'd be buying like a town home in a

decent area home.

>> Uh, and I'm going small, two-bedroom. If

somebody wants to stay with us, kick the kid out, he can do an air mattress. I mean, that's me. And I know that that's But my if my wife were here, she'd be like, "You're so intense on all your decisions." But but I don't need four bedrooms. And and that's what it's so funny because we went from 4,000 foot home in Charlotte because that's how they build them.

They build them huge. Yeah. >> We went to a cute little 2,000 square foot cape and I told my husband I'm like I love it. I love the cute >> What does your husband think?

We haven't brought him into the picture. >> Does he have opinions or is he like whatever you want honey? >> He He's so easy. He's excited.

We're going back to North Carolina to be closer to family. We're looking in the same neighborhood as his sister and their kids. So the kids are all going to be back together playing. It's all positive.

She's not where I I've never felt Charlotte. I'm from New York. Never felt Charlotte.

There's no question. I think God's hand is all over this. I don't think this is the universe. I'm just going to say that. And I think that because of this,

um, if you take that 300,000, you need to pay the car off and whatever's left, get a cheaper house, smaller.

>> Yeah. >> Get a good real estate pro.

Ramseyolutions.com/agents.

uh and and get somebody who knows what you're trying to do and I think you you you put a huge chunk down knowing you're going to get all that back. I think you're going to get some appreciation in seven years, but there's no risk and you've just lowered your payments and with that combined $350,000 salary, George, they're socking money away like crazy. And then she goes to the coast.

Yeah, >> we're going from an $8,000 a month mortgage to probably when I was crunching numbers like 2,800. So I'm like, what do we do with that? We've never really in, you know, >> it's interesting to go to the reverse call. >> It ain't 2,800 if you buy what I'm telling you to buy. >> You buy some $250,000 town home or $300,000 town home with 200,000 down.

>> I'm stacking money for the coast. I'm like an animal for seven years. I'm thinking of the coast. I'm thinking of the coast and I'm stacking money like crazy. >> You stack 100 grand for seven years and invest that, you'll have over a million bucks to put towards this coastal home that you guys are dreaming of.

>> So, I think you're on the right track. I would just say let's go with some research and some and patience and a pro.

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All right. If you're working the baby steps, the best way to do it is by using Every Dollar. Now, it's more than just a budgeting app. Now we've built the baby

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product. Fantastic. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations for your situation. And you can get coaching.

Did I tell you that? In the app. It's unbelievable. So it's like having one of us walk with you every day.

I don't know what that would be like >> without having >> I think I would probably be a lot more fun to walk with than George cuz he's just so neurotic. I feel like you have a probably a mall walker's pace, which I think is a good pace. >> It is. If you if you're walking with me, you're going to you're going to be a little tired, but you're going to feel good about it afterwards.

If you're walking with George, you're going to be reminded of all the things that could go wrong in the world.

>> That's encouraging. >> Yeah, that's accurate. >> No, I'm kidding. I love George, folks.

It's just a joke. Just sarcastic.

>> We're actual friends. >> That's right. Uh you can start every dollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Let's

go to Madison who Oh, this is where George went to college, I believe.

Mobile, Alabama. Madison, how can we help? >> Hey guys, glad to talk to you. Uh, so I have kind of a calculation question. Uh, h how do you determine or calculate what is appropriate to spend on a vacation?

And I'll add the caveat that this would be for our 15th anniversary.

>> Hey, >> these are some of my favorite calls. Uh, I'm going to let George lead cuz there's a good chance I disagree with him. Well, let's let's check off a few boxes. Are you completely debtree outside of a mortgage?

>> Yes. >> And do you have an emergency fund saved up? >> We do. >> Great.

>> Okay. And how much are you planning to spend on this vacation? If you could just dream it up, how much would it cost? >> Well, that's a dangerous question because I'm both the uh nerd and the spender.

So, the free spirit, >> which means you've done the research, so let's not dream it up.

You've been thinking about it. What's What's the range that you think this is going to cost? So, somewhere in the 5,500 to 8,000

range. All in like flights, food, coffee

at the airport, like everything.

>> How many days?

>> Uh, seven whole because you know 15 years deserves a whole week. >> Well, let me tell you. Um, okay. And what's your income again? Did you tell us this already?

>> No, I didn't. So, what's the combined income? >> We're about to have an income change.

So, I'll tell you kind of in a couple months where we'll be. Um, we will be at

combined uh 135.

>> Awesome. And when is this trip going to happen? >> October. >> Okay. And do you have the money now or are you guys going to sort of save up with a scing fund to get there?

>> Kind of a kind of a both end. So, we're in baby step four. We're investing 15%.

Everything extra is going to orthodontics or something comes up with the house, you know, we have the cash on hand to save up. So we've got a little bit of it saved up enough to get the tickets at this point, >> right? So you can sort of start that start the cash flow and then continue saving for the actual kind of spending on the trip and all that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> And there's no budgetary strain between

now and October to save the rest of the money. >> It's it feels tight, but maybe it's just because it's a decision between, well, we don't have a lot in the 529. Do we put more there? We have five kids, so there's a >> You definitely need the 7-day vacation.

All right. The kids teeth can be straightened out later. I got to tell you, >> that's kind of our thought.

>> Madison, you're going on vacation.

Congratulations, >> George. Yes, I say go. And don't think twice about it. The kids will be fine.

>> Oh, I know they will. We're cashing in on the grandparent uh situation, so I know they'll be fine. I'm not worried about it. I don't feel any guilt or anything. It's more like >> No, I meant the 529 and all the things.

You'll make up for loss. you can make up for that. This is huge. This is a This is a big deal. And um Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. I'm excited. >> Well, that makes me feel better. >> Yeah. Very good. >> We do, man. I'm counting down the days.

>> Where, by the way, where is this trip?

Do we know? >> Uh we're looking at St. Lucia.

>> No, you had to say it was Caribbean for me. >> Started with that and Ken would have been like, I don't care. You're going. >> I'm telling you, I'm half pirate. Uh I love the Caribbean. I love everything about it. Um >> if it's got saint in front of it, count me in. Yeah, that's another thing.

That's pretty much it. If you just say Saint something, I'm like, "Yeah, sure.

I'll go there." Love it. Love it. Love it. >> Unless it's St. Louis. I guess I'm not looking forward to >> my 15th ann.

>> Wonderful city. Just not where I want to go for my 15th anniversary. I think that's fair. >> Fair point. Yeah, >> you pulled that out of the ditch. >> Just want to make sure the good people of St. Louis >> Nobody wants to go to the top of the ark and take a selfie for your 15.

>> I'm scared of heights, so no thank you.

Let's go to Gina in New York City. Gina, how can we help?

>> Hi guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um I'm I'm just wondering what I should do with this $6,000 that I have saved.

Um should I save it for April because I know I'm going to have to pay my taxes. I'm an independent contractor.

Or should I apply some of it towards my $9,000 credit card?

>> Do you have an idea what you're going to owe in taxes?

So last year I made more money than I

ever made before and this year I made more than that. And last year I in April I ended up having to pay 8,000.

So that's why I'm like maybe I just need to hold on to this and keep adding to it until I know exactly how much I'm going to have to pay in April. >> Smart. >> That is wise. >> Here's what you don't want to do is you use all this money to pay off debt and then tax time comes and you go, I owe the IRS money and I don't have it. Mhm.

>> That's a dangerous game to play. So, I would wait. What do you do your own taxes or do you work with a tax pro?

>> I I work with an accountant.

>> Okay, great. So, I would do that as soon as possible so that you know the exact number that will come out of that account on April 15th. >> And it sounds like common sense here uh

that it's going to be closer to the 8,000 if not more based on what you told us.

>> Yeah. I'm just, you know, with these possible like overtime um tax write offs

that they're, you know, that have been going around, the rumors. My husband, my husband has a regular job and he does overtime and he does a lot of overtime.

So, I'm just wondering how that's going to factor into it as well. >> Well, let me just stop you right there.

We don't base this on rumors. Unless it's legislation that's been signed, then we're just fantasizing. >> And if it is, it's probably not for the previous tax year.

Well, his uh employer actually sent him a um an email saying that in you know

2025 we when you file taxes for this year for 2025 that there's some type of a tax benefit for all the overtime.

>> Okay. I would just look into that with your accountant. We just want to make sure.

>> Okay. >> So homework is file your taxes with the accountant. Find that number that you're going to owe. Make sure you have that.

And anything above and beyond that, we can start attacking the credit card debt sooner. >> But yes, I would be just stacking cash right now and not use it all toward your debt. This is sort of a syncing fund to make sure that we are covered come tax time.

>> All right. Thank you guys so much.

>> Absolutely. You know, you just George, it's such a great reminder.

>> Um, we don't want to hear something from somebody or we read something that we're not quite sure about and it involves taxes. We want to get on the phone today. You don't have to have your tax statements um or your withholding forms to call the accountant. So, she should be on the phone and Gina, you're listening. You're calling your tax pro today to say, "I've heard this. Is this true based on this?"

And again, they can give you ballpark, you know, but if it's significantly more money you made last year, um again, just the way I would take it, I would put more back. I would be saving another couple grand minimum pretty darn soon.

>> And a good reminder for anyone who is self-employed, $1099, you should be

paying quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website to avoid this gigantic

scary bill that you can't afford come April. And so log in every quarter and work with your tax prose tax software.

You can calculate how much you should be paying in taxes and just send the IRS some money ahead of time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely true. Stacy and I uh before I came to Ramsey, we had our own company and our accountant had us do that. We were paying quarterly taxes.

Sometimes we'd get a little bit back if the estimate was a little bit too much, but you'd rather that. Yeah. >> Well, you could get hit with penalty and fees if you don't do that, too. So, you want to do it by the book. And if you guys want a great tax pro, a CPA, enrolled agent, uh we we vet them. We have a whole network of tax pros to connect you to that will help you just like Ramsay would. So, you can reach them at ramseyolutions.com/taxpro and find one in your area. Don't wait.

Don't be that person who's April 13th, you're like, I guess I should probably look into getting those taxes done.

>> I like to get them done early. I don't know if you can tell just by my face.

I'm a guy who's like, "Let's knock this out." >> Yeah. And this might shock you cuz I tend to be a little bit seat of the pants. I as well like to uh get get the

as soon as we get the stuff. >> Wow. >> And get it right. >> Get the paperwork. >> Yeah. We got a local tax pro. Uh and I got the double the double whammy benefit. My Tax Pro uh works in the

office for my Smart Vest Pro.

>> Wow. >> So, it's all in the same keeping it in the family. >> I like OneTop, folks. One stop. Take

care of it all. >> Ken's dentist is also in there. That's wonderful. And I get a haircut there.

We're looking for a masseuse, by the way.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel. We're excited to be here for you today. The phone number to jump in8255225LE88255225.

Tim is up next in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Tim, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Uh, back in back in 2023, my wife and I

did IVF and the IVF medical company we went through um didn't have the greatest billing department. they made some errors billing us for things we didn't get done. Um, and we addressed it with them. Um, and now it's two years later

and they have sent it to collections.

We're getting um, calls and mail from a

collection company trying to get the money back and we let them know, hey, this hasn't been resolved on their end.

We don't want feel like we should pay this certain amount of money that's left over. So, we kind of seem stuck. I mean,

on one hand, yeah, we just pay and be done with it, but for me, more of an issue. >> Let me let me jump in to ask. When you

Yeah. >> You said just now that you resolved this, when you resolved it in the past

and they somebody acknowledged that those were erroneous charges. Do you have paper record like electronic record of all of this?

>> No, I'm sorry. What I what I meant was it wasn't resolved. Oh, >> and we have So, we paid what we're supposed to pay. Um, but for the erroneous billing, we haven't paid that yet. >> Who did you pay? When you say you paid what you were supposed to pay, you paid the IVF clinic.

>> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. And then you got a separate bill from the IVF clinic or from straight from collections because they should be IVF clinic should have been sending you bills first.

>> Correct. Yes, they did. And we we reached out to them saying, "Yeah, this is incorrect. It needs to be rectified.

They said, "Oh, we'll take you have a look into it." You know, months, months, months went by. Um, pretty much years.

And so now is the first time we're hearing from this collection company saying, "Hey, these are sending bills from the company." >> Right. Now, my next question is, do you have records of proof? Can you prove

that you never got these services? you never got the >> other words. Is there some paper trail between you and the clinic that would prove that you never got the services that they're billing you for?

>> So what in a sense? Yes. The the code

they put in for the services that we had, we never had done. So in a sense, yes, I have that. Um

and maybe we could even ask the physician himself because we know him as a friend and he could say yes. That was never done either. Tim, Tim, hold No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Tim, this is like, dude, I would be talking to the doctor who's my friend.

>> Well, we actually have. Um, unfortunately, he doesn't work here anymore. >> Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Can he validate? >> Can he validate on the record that these he never

treated you in the way that they build you?

It's an it's a yes or no question.

>> Ask that >> what >> I mean I can ask him again. That's not unfortunately it's not his area his his expertise of billing. Um we can try again to ask him. >> No no no no. Again I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to bulldog on this because you called for help. Okay. So

George, back me off here if if I need to back off.

This guy is the doctor who treated you and your wife. Yes or no? Yes. Yeah.

>> Okay. And you have talked to him about this before to say they have charged us for services and I'm not going to ask you to say what it is. It doesn't matter. But but you've talked to him about it and said they've charged us for this >> and and and you didn't do that. Have you had that conversation with him?

>> Uh yes. >> And what did he say? He agreed. Yes. I did not do that.

It was more so it's not something that he has knowledge of as far as billing.

>> I didn't say about billing. I'm saying

they've charged you for something and he has acknowledged or can acknowledge that he did not treat you for that. Forget the billing part. He can testify.

>> Yeah. >> Yes or no?

>> No, that hasn't happened.

>> Okay. But my point is is he could testify. He could do an affidavit. He could he could do I mean if I was going to fight this that's where I would be going >> and I going we know the doctor and the doctor said he didn't do this.

>> And so if even I got to hire a lawyer George not a lot of hours but just somebody who can who can say all right we're going to fight this and here's how and we're going to tell the company to pound sand. We're not going to pay you for this. >> Have you been in contact with the collection company?

>> I have. I let them know the erroneous bills. They put it on pause.

>> Okay. >> Um they came back to us about like a month later saying, "We reached out to this company, the IVF company, and here's what they say. You still owe it." So, they're not really doing anything. >> No, you need to request, you need to get a debt validation letter.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then you need to get the itemized bill from the clinic. That's correct.

>> Yeah. And those two things, they should be in conflict where the itemized bill says one thing that's says you don't owe and then the collection company then has to get rid of the the faulty debt.

>> Let me tell you something else I would do. >> If this were me, Tim, I would literally go into the clinic and has to meet with the office manager, whoever is in charge. I mean, >> can I get on your >> like a retroactive coding audit from the billing department and you you just mentioned the word compliance. They're going to be like, "Oh crap, we got >> And you mentioned the doctor and go, I'm willing to ask our friend to go on the

record >> like we're just playing around." >> Is they're out of business in our area and they're gone, so I can't even go into the office now.

>> The IVF, why wouldn't you lead with that, Tim? The place isn't even in business, so there's no billing department to deal with. >> Nationally, they are in other states, not in our state. >> Okay. So, get in touch with the corporate billing department.

>> Yeah. and say, "Hey, this location closed down. I have this bad debt. I need a debt validation. I need an itemized bill from you guys. I need a coding audit. Here's the account number." I feel like this is partially on you, Tim, cuz you've been letting this just fester for years.

>> And you just gave up and went, "Well, I guess we'll just deal with that five years from now." >> And I can handle that. Like Tim, honestly, if we were to have a doctor come in here and check my blood pressure versus yours, I'm more pissed off about this than you are for you. Like, this is

You are in the right. Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Yes. Say it with some conviction, man.

Like, fight this. This is obnoxious. Cuz here, George, you're the expert on this. It's my belief that he does all of these things. Everybody gets together, the powers that be get together and go, "Okay, this guy Tim is right." And not only is Tim right, I'm waking up at 2 am in the morning thinking about Tim

and I'm done. Cuz I promise you, if this were me, this thing would be resolved fast. >> I would let slumber to my eyes until

this thing was handled. And so Tim, this this is where you got to be the squeaky wheel. You've got to be contacting them so often. They've got your number like they've got it listed. Oh, Tim's calling again. Who wants to handle this one?

>> Yeah. >> And eventually you're going to get to the bottom of this. But the truth is, you just gave up too soon.

>> Yeah. And nobody over there, by the way, over there being the clinic and uh the

collection, nobody over there cares about you. >> Sure. >> And the health care system in general is full of incompetence. And so your job is to be so persistent to correct their confidence that you win the game >> that you flip it from they don't care about you to they care deeply about making this right so they never have to think of your name again. This is the level of intensity. The sword of righteousness. It's a fiery sword and we

are swinging it at everybody in our path

because you're trying to screw me. Ken just took us to church.

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Hunter in Arizona.

My dad gave me an RV when I was 18. I'm now 24, married, and have two little girls. It is a very nice RV and I'm very well accustomed to the RV life, but my wife refuses to live in quote something that doesn't have a foundation. The goal. We could sell our house, buy land with cash, and live for free instead of paying our $1,500 mortgage every month.

My wife would prefer to move in to her parents and pay $850 a month for rent and utilities. It's a great deal, but I think owning land and having no payments other than utilities is much better.

Which is the better choice? I don't like any of these. Yeah, these all sound like >> Because if I'm reading this right, George, one option is sell the current house, buy land with cash, and live in the RV. Am I reading that right? It says and live for free, which means the RV.

Yeah, that's not that's not a plan. But he already lays out that the wife's not doing that. And she counters with let's

move into our parents' house, her parents' house. None of these are good options. It sounds like to me sounds like everybody's unhappy. >> The question is, is the $1,500 mortgage is that sinking them right now? We have no other information on this.

>> And so, let's assume they can afford it. I think they just don't like paying it.

Based on their framing here, we could sell our house and buy land with cash.

Yeah. This guy wants to park the RV on the land. His wife's like, "No chance.

Uh, I'll I'll say no and raise you. We move into my parents house." Who wants to move into their in-laws? >> Live with mom and dad or live like

both of these are terrible options.

>> I would rather you guys go rent somewhere if you can't afford this mortgage right now. If it's a really crisis situation, >> I'd sell the RV.

>> Yeah. >> Stay in the current house.

>> You said you're accustomed to the RV life. Your wife refuses to I don't think she even likes the RV life.

>> I am fairly certain she hates the very concept. >> I think it's okay to admit your life changed. And yes, it's sentimental because your dad gave it to you when you were 18 and you will grieve that. But it's just a thing going down in value.

It's just a hunk of metal. And so if you want an RV in the future, you can always buy one. But if you're in a pinch, I would sell it, pay off any debt you have, get to a better place financially, and then see, is this mortgage sustainable for the long-term future?

>> The only RV I would ever buy would be the model uh from Christmas Vacation.

>> Oh, the exact replica.

>> If you Well, yeah, if you could find that year, that model, >> that's probably a hot commodity.

>> I don't think so. It's a piece of crap.

But and then you could basically save it. It's just like it's nothing. And I would This is cash. This is me.

And I'm basically parking it somewhere until the day after Thanksgiving at which point I create a Christmas display somewhere with that. >> Charge five bucks a pop to walk in there and all of a sudden >> pays for Christmas. >> Billion dollar idea. >> You were doing custom cocktails in the little RV.

There's a guy in the lobby that's already >> You've had worse ideas. >> And you know what it is? Everybody gets a moose glass.

Everybody. It's like, I'm going to charge you too much for the Christmas cocktail, but you get the moose glass and you get your picture and I have a cousin Eddie guy standing out there in his robe. >> The whole thing. >> If this was Shark Tank, all the sharks would be chomping at the bit for this idea. So, >> I got to find me one of those RVs.

Stacy's going to hate this idea. >> We'll look at the break for the record. All right, Seth is up in Los Angeles.

Seth, how can we help today? All right. I'm in a contract on a house that I I still have time to back out of.

However, I'm realizing the solar lease

is problematic. Uh because it's 22-year

contract, and if I want to buy out the contract, it's $45,000.

>> No, thank you. Why are we not making the seller buy it out >> as part of the deal? I uh the seller in

the contract uh that we're in escrow on

said that the solar goes with the uh house. So I haven't posed a new option.

Uh >> sure the solar stays on the house but you should not be on the hook for this whole thing for his bad decision that he's now trying to get out of.

>> Yeah. >> Is it like it's just not worth it? It might be a ne Yeah, it might be a next ofkin scenario to where they're just they're getting rid of the house and they don't want to pay into it at all.

Um, so I I don't know the entirety of the situation, but I I do I think it might be a next of Ken just trying to suck up as much money as they can on the sale. >> 100%. So this is 40 How much did you say? >> The buyout >> the house >> the uh the solar >> buyout of the solar is 45,000 >> over 22 years.

that that's if I want to buy it out. It is a I think they call it a balloon lease to where every year it goes up by 3.5%.

And so right now my electric bill would be 145ish and by the end of year 22 it would be

316.

Uh I would I'm currently living alone

and probably would not use that much electricity. So >> what made you agree to this? >> Yeah. Why did you sign the contract?

>> I didn't realize it was uh that problematic at the time. Um >> did your realtor not go, "Hey man, just FYI, >> the contract was sent to me." Um the

realtor did not realize it was a 22-year

contract and the the buyout of it. I had to do that digging myself to figure out what the buyout was cuz they did not give her that information either. Well, you know what? It doesn't matter cuz you're telling me you can get out of it.

Correct. >> Correct. >> Walk away, man. >> Get out of this thing.

Think about it. You're paying new system money for old panels. A new a new whole new system should be less than 45,000.

You're assuming all the risk for the solar, the maintenance, the roof issues, and there's zero upside. You didn't get the tax credit. You didn't choose the system. This was a terrible deal all around. So I would say dodge the bullet and get out of this. >> Yeah, that that is initially my thought process as well. The the question also poses if it's about 25,000 below comps

and the uh seller is paying for all um

essential clo uh costs of uh realtor

fees and and inspection fees and those things. >> It's still not worth it. You're still on the >> trying to talk yourself into this. I would go, "Hey, if you want to cover the buyout, I'm in. Otherwise, no deal."

>> Okay, >> that's it. You play hard ball now.

>> Yeah, you got walk away power. I hope.

>> Yeah, >> there's other houses that you can get a deal on that aren't stuck with this terrible debt attached to it.

>> All right. >> U So, hey, this is very simple for us.

We we walk away from this one. Turn your favorite walk away song, whatever that is, and get it in your head before before you call them up. You know, maybe Walk on by you two. I don't know. That's what I would choose. I'm going to call them. Going to get fired up, pumped up.

Tell my realtor I'm done. And then let's see what the negotiation looks like then. By the way, uh one of our amazing teammates, Will Ruer, just texted me and

uh it the uh RV is a 1971 Ford Condor

camper. I'm interested in buying anything with the name Condor.

>> Okay. >> Strong. >> Do you know what I'm saying? Like that sucks me in a little bit. Are you seeing any prices for those, George?

>> Uh I see one the bid for the chance.

>> What are we talking about? I need to know what the market is. >> Yeah. >> The one you sent me, Will, is right in the range.

It's pretty good beat up. And then I would hire an artist to make it look like the one uh in the movie. You know what I mean? They could probably do with some type of sand blasting or something like that.

It looked like it had a lot of rust on it. Uh, are you coming up with anything? >> You're not the only one, Ken. I I just found a forum where someone said, "I'm looking for the motor home like cousin Eddie had in the movie." Oh, yeah.

You're not the first one to think of this. >> I never said I was.

>> See, I'm thinking money maker.

>> This feels like a retirement dream cuz it's going to cost you money. I don't think it's going to make you money. >> I disagree. and talk in your life. The >> only cost is buying one of these things.

All right, we'll stay with the research and see what the market is. Do you want to take a guess? I'm going to say it would cost >> I'm going to say people are charging 50 grand or more for something like that >> if they know what they got.

>> Who doesn't know they have a Condor?

>> There's might be some old guy out there who hadn't seen a movie since, you know, 1968. >> I don't know. It's the greatest Christmas movie of all time. I think if you got a Condor, you know you got >> You know what you got.

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>> All right, Jeff is up next in Minneapolis. Jeff, how can we help?

>> Yeah, I just wonder if I could get some uh money advice or real estate advice.

Kind of both. I guess >> we will allow both of those today. We're feeling very generous.

>> Awesome. Good.

>> Go ahead. What's up?

>> Okay. Well, the real estate part of it

is it's our daughter's house that I'm wondering about. She got divorced about a year ago.

And she got the house, but she also got the mortgage with it. But there's plenty of or there's about half of it. She has good assets, you know, half the value,

but she had to refinance it for half of

it, and she really can't afford it. So, we've been helping her and just wondering if we did the wrong thing. Probably cosigning for it so she could qualify. And >> Oh, you cosigned for the mortgage?

>> We did. Yes.

>> For the refinance. Yep.

>> And you're helping her?

>> Because she she can't afford the payments right now. She's going to school and working part-time. Yes. So, how much are you are you guys giving her every month?

>> Well, it varied. I mean, sometimes she'd come up with the full mortgage. Got close to Christmas there. We didn't even see a payment through then cuz So, it's kind of been biting us a little bit there. >> And she's working full-time.

>> Part time. And going to going to school for teaching right now, too.

>> Okay. What is she doing for work?

>> She's working in a school setting as a paraprofessional, they call them. Okay.

So, let's fast forward. She's done with school. She's a teacher making, I don't know, $50,000. Is that >> Yeah, maybe a little more up in this area. >> Can she afford her life on her own in this house at that time

or is it still going to be tight?

>> Uh, time would tell.

>> Well, let's ask you specifically. What's the mortgage payment?

>> Mortgage is 1,700 a month.

>> So, there's your answer. It's 1700. I don't think this is sustainable. I think you need to have a hard conversation with her >> and say, "Hey, we're going to need to sell this house. It's not sustainable for you. It's not sustainable for us." >> And she can rent for the time being, right, while she's in school.

>> Yeah. My is our area up here. There's not a lot of good areas, housing, and

>> for the grand she's 43. We're kind of just looking out for the grandkids mostly. >> How old are they?

uh 13 and 10 kind of don't want to have to see him get taken out of the house right away, you know? >> I know we don't. But but but I know we don't. But this is not sustainable. As

George said, this is and and you are a great father, by the way. Like you are a phenomenal dad, but this isn't your burden. >> This could be forever. >> This could be Yeah. Like >> once she gets used to you floating two grand a month, why would she go up I I don't want to take that anymore. Maybe at some point she gets on her feet, but that could be years and years from now.

>> But she actually can get on her feet if you get her out of this pit.

>> Yeah, that's what I say. But she could probably go put a good down payment somewhere cheaper and have a smaller payment for sure. >> Right. But that's my point. So, let's get out of this house.

You guide her through this. Say, "Hey, we've been helping you this way, but it's actually not helping. We're just spinning our tires, and here's how we want to help you. We're going to guide you through this." to sell the house, get out from underneath this, get a lower payment if she needs to rent for a year or two until she gets the teacher salary. You know, the kids are going to be fine. As long as the 10 and the 13-year-old are with her, they've their their life, by the way, has already been wrecked.

>> So, it's not the house they need. They

need her. And to be completely honest with you, that house has got some trauma associated with it.

>> For sure. So, I could make the case that the best thing to do, not just financially, George, uh, emotionally, I

think this is the best thing to do.

>> I'm thinking of an investment, though.

It's such beautiful property. And >> again, you know what you keep doing, though? You keep trying to justify pouring money into this pit that she cannot get out of. If you want it back

to you, >> she can sell it to you.

>> She can be yours to deal with.

>> Let's put it this way. actually actually thought about that, but I don't know if I want to go that route, you know, being

a I don't want to own a property in the country. >> You just told us it was a beautiful property and it's a great it could be a great investment. So, which one is it?

>> It is a great investment, but I don't want to live here. >> Okay, then we're not then we need to get out of it. There's a lot of beautiful properties that I don't want to own and uh this isn't this is one of them. So, here's the deal. Are you guys in a good place financially?

>> We're sitting okay. Yeah. No, I'm retired. My wife's still working.

>> Okay. I mean, do you got what's your net worth?

>> Uh maybe about 500,000.

>> Okay. So, you're you're not in a place to go buy property. You're not in a place to float your daughter, you know, a few grand a month. And I think you need to be honest with her and just tell her, "Hey, we've been artificially propping this whole situation up. We love you. We want to help you, but we can't take this mortgage on and you can't either. and we need to face the reality here.

>> That's probably probably good advice.

>> Do you guys have room in the house if she temporarily stayed with you?

>> No, but there's there's another there's another she's involved with someone else and she's barely at this place at this house actually cuz she's at his house.

>> Whoa. Okay. So, there's another man in the picture. >> Yeah. And he's got a cabin so they're up there all the time. And I >> You keep giving us more reasons to list this house this afternoon.

I agree. But I I come up here and ski and I use it as kind of recreational for

me. >> Oh. Oh. So now papa's getting some benefits here. >> Jeff enjoys this house. This isn't about her.

>> No, maybe not.

>> Oh, no. I'm going to I'm going to remove the maybe. It's not about her. She's in the cabin with the new dude, and you're the one that's up there skiing and telling us how great a property it is, but I don't want to live here. And I got to say, for a guy who cosigned on it who needs more net worth, I would be unloading this house. >> And by the way, this is already messy.

Who's going to get all the equity when you sell?

>> She will. >> So, you're not taking a dime from the proceeds of the house.

>> Yeah. I'm hoping that she'd have enough where she could uh reimburse some of the money we've been throwing out there.

>> Well, that's a whole new conversation. Have you guys talked about that and agreed to it when you co-signed the mortgage? has said, "Hey, you're going to reimburse us for what we've paid you?" >> Cuz that'd be a shock to me if I was your son and this was a big surprise at the end.

>> Yeah. I mean, you knew she wasn't going to make the payment of her income of, you know, what she was making.

>> I'm not so sure you didn't go, "Well, I really like the skiing up in this part of the woods and I could help my daughter out at the same time." I mean, can you not get a Motel 6 near the ski slope?

Yeah, I know. But uh >> they tell me they leave the light on.

>> It's actually more more the kids than me, I think. For me.

>> Oh, no. You're all over the place, man.

>> Are the kids staying there alone while she's at the cabin? How is this working?

>> What was that? You guys are both talking. I couldn't hear. >> I know. It's my fault. I was trying to be a smart Alec. Go ahead, George.

>> I'm just confused. So, the It's about the kids now, but the kids are staying at the house. She's at this other guy's house. I'm just confused by the whole situation. They're all They're all at They all go to the other guy's house.

You know, they stick they go there, they stay here. >> It's clear that this house means not a lot to these kids anymore.

>> They're already getting taken every which way to different houses. So, what's the difference? >> I would sell this and get out from under it. Take all the risk out from under your feet. >> And then you can go rent a spot if you want to go ski anytime you want. And with the money you save from getting out of this dumpster fire, you can afford to go enjoy some skiing.

>> Yeah. Sorry, Jeff. I mean, we're for you. You called us.

>> You You talked yourself right into the corner. We just >> I knew what I kind of knew what you guys were going to say. I listen to you guys all the time. >> Well, that's good. I'm glad we didn't disappoint. That's That's always good.

But, uh, you're a good man. But, hey,

>> the the key is here's the principle underneath it. If you're going to help, it should be one, temporary, two, intentional, three conditional.

That's what you need. Not open-ended, not well, it could be a good investment and we're going to cosign. There needs to be very clear boundaries. Anytime you help someone. >> Yeah. >> And we never loan money. So, I like that you didn't do that. But if it's going to be a gift, it needs to be, hey, we're going to gift you this for the next 6 months, and here's what's going to happen after that. You're going to be out of school. You're going to have a job. You're going to be taking this on.

We will not be giving you another dime after that. And that's not callous.

That's actually good for her because she's a grown woman and she needs to live her own life and not be propped up by mom and dad at this point.

>> And he could take that savings, maybe invest in me with my Christmas uh popup with the condor. >> Yeah, you you want this to be a safety net, not a hammock. And it's quickly turning into the ladder. >> I'll just ship it up to the ski area.

We'll just park it outside the lodge. Me and Jeff sitting out in our lawn chairs.

>> Let go of the dream, Ken.

>> I believe they call that a call back, James.

Hey.

Hey. Hey.

All

right, folks. You know this, buying or selling a home is a very, very big deal.

And you don't want to mess that up. You want to go into it cleareyed, uh, levelheaded, uh, ready to go. And you do that uh, by using our Ramsay trusted

program to find a top agent you can trust in your area to make this whole process, whether you're buying or selling, a blessing, not a burden. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free by going to ramiesolutions.com/agent ramseysolutions.com/agent or we have a link in the show notes.

Let's go to my friend Ken and I'm friends with all Ken's George just >> you've never met a Ken you didn't like. >> Yeah, it's a great name and just you know you just know it's a solid person.

Ken is joining us in San Francisco. Ken, how can we help?

>> Hi Ken. Hi George. Thanks for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on? So, my wife

would like me to sell our truck and uh

get a a newer truck. And I'm not sure if that's a great idea. And also, if I end

up selling it, how much truck I could afford. >> Oh, this is one of George's favorite things to talk about. So, hit us with the details. >> Get into it. >> It's a 2000 Ford Ranger. Uh, it's got

low miles and uh, it's had a couple issues, but I'm able to work on a truck that old and uh, I like low registration

and insurance payments and I own it outright. So, >> and can we say that's a fantastic truck

that little Ford Ranger. >> I miss those old ones. >> Perfect size. That's the truck I would have if I was >> I was getting ready to say short guys like us, we drive, if we drive trucks, it's a Ford Ranger. No question.

>> Okay, so your wife, what does she think about this? Do you think it's a death trap? What is her reasoning for why you need a new truck?

>> Yes, that's exactly it. She believes it's unsafe uh for the for the kids and

um also has bad paint fade. So, I think she just uh also doesn't like driving it around town. >> Just the curb appeal is is offputting to her. >> She doesn't like the patina, huh? >> Now, where are you guys at financially?

>> Do you have any debt? >> Uh so, uh we have zero debt besides the

house. Um, and uh, other than that, we

have uh, uh, we have high yield savings

account with approximately 125,000.

>> Okay, buy a truck, dude. What are we doing here? >> Oh, no. >> There's no need to shout. >> I'm not saying don't buy a brand new truck, but could you get a new to you truck for What's your household income?

>> It's approximately 330,000.

>> Oh boy, your wife has just got the

patience of Job. Dude, this is like extreme cheap skates level. This is wild. >> And by the way, it takes one to know one. When George says that, >> I'm telling you to buy a new truck. Okay. So, what truck would your wife like you to have? And what's the price point of said truck?

>> So, if I was to get a new truck, I was looking at a >> a used uh Toyota Tacoma, maybe in the

2020 year range. So, approximately $30,000. >> I would do it yesterday. Wow. Wow,

George. >> This is all green lights. >> This is so fun. >> This is a rare truck guy. Most truck guys are broke with huge payments and their truck payment is more than their mortgage. >> Ken, is your wife near you right now by any chance?

>> Yeah, she is. >> Can she hear this call?

>> Uh, she can. Yes.

>> Good. I just want to make sure that she heard that George said do it. You know,

buy the truck. And here's the parameter.

Make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life is no more than half of your annual income. Check. Pay cash. Check. Be debtree with an emergency fund. Check. So, you are all >> Make your wife happy.

>> Check. >> You're not doing anything out of control. I would You should have a little party to say goodbye to this truck cuz I think it's fantastic. It's sentimental. You can frame a picture of it. >> Well, you know what? Actually, I I a quick question because I I I was thinking about this. How much is that? I don't know what a a 2,000 uh Ford Ranger

would cost in that condition. Do you have any idea what you could get for it?

>> Uh I believe I could get around $6,000 for it. >> All right. Can I throw something out, George? >> Sure. >> Do Well, let me ask a question before I throw it out. Ken, do you need the $6,000 from the Ford Ranger? How much do

you need that money to buy the truck that you want to get?

>> No, I don't particularly need the >> He doesn't need it. Okay. Can I suggest that >> you want him to keep it, don't you? >> He likes it a lot.

>> You got room for an extra ugly truck around the house or does she not want to see it? >> We We do have room for it. Yeah, I could probably keep it. That's an idea. >> Well, does she want it gone from her existence is what we're getting at.

>> I think she just uh doesn't want to pick up the kids in school with it. Well, would you like to keep it or was this just all financial and it was the concept of how little money you were putting into it or do you want to keep it?

>> It drives great. So, I I I wouldn't have a problem keeping it. >> I'm going to throw it out there.

>> Well, here's the good news. You throw it out. >> You can go buy the truck tomorrow and not have to sell this one. And so, it's not like an on fire situation. That's why. >> But my guess is your wife's about to call 1800 Got Junk and get and get this thing out of the drive. >> It's worth six grand.

>> Yeah. But I'm just saying she wants it gone and uh for those reasons I eventually you have to let go of things and so I think it's been high time. How long have you had it?

>> I've had it approximately 3 years now.

>> Oh, okay. So this is it's a new truck to you. >> Yeah, it's I had a commuter before and my commute got short so I I got a truck.

>> Oh man, Ken, you are special in a good way. the fact that you love that 2000 Ford Ranger patina them pains >> six figures in savings making $300,000

>> and we're arguing over.

>> But this is this is the next door. This is the everyday this is the millionaire that you don't see coming cuz he's rolling up in a 2000 Ford Ranger.

>> I love it. >> Yeah. J Ken, do you mind asking what is your retirement portfolio?

Uh, right now I have a 457 with approximately 380,000 in it.

>> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah, he's rocking. >> What's your house worth?

>> The house is between 900 and a million.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> We owe 315.

>> Fantastic. So, you guys are baby steps millionaires. >> Yeah. No question.

>> Yeah. Thanks to my dad listening to you uh to Dave back in the day.

>> That's amazing. Well, here's the cool news. I don't I'm not saying you should do this and I wouldn't, but you could buy a new car. Cuz we tell people, hey, if you're going to get a new car, you got to wait till you got a million- dollar net worth for a simple reason.

It's too much of your world wrapped up in something going down in value before you hit that milestone.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm just I I like the cheap insurance and registration, but I hear you. I hear you. >> And I'm sure you've done your research to find what trucks have the cheapest insurance. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. For >> this guy researches, >> you know, this guy could sub in for you.

Absolutely. >> You two are wired. We can do a car exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I'd swap this Ken for this Ken any day.

>> Well played. >> I love it. Thanks for the call. >> And I don't blame you.

He's far more your kind of guy than me. >> I needed a win today. I was feeling like a real fuddy duddy. And so it feels good to deliver some good news.

>> It does, doesn't it? Uh really important. By the way, I do think it's important. We have new people all the time.

So I'm thinking new listener, new viewer. I want you to explain again a little bit more detailed.

>> and why the reason is those things are going down in value so you got a depreciating asset and so if you have $80,000 worth of car and you make a hundred,000 That is so much of your world that is literally tanking. And so

you don't want to make these decisions, especially with debt. Cuz here's what we see. They buy the $40,000 truck with a payment. So it costs them $50,000 and 6

years later that thing is worth $20,000.

So now you've got a real problem. You're underwater within a year on this truck

and you've paid way more than it's worth. And that puts people in a bind.

So, the good news is you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater. That's exactly right. Because let's play that scenario out. Let's let's go what you said.

So, if you have a million dollars in net worth or more and you buy a brand new car and something, you know, life-changing financially happens, where do you sit? Well, you're sitting with a paid for car that you can unload, >> no debt with a with a sizable net worth, a nest egg, so you can stomach the depreciation. It's all about ratios, >> right? And so you got to go, well, this guy makes $300,000, so he can buy a $30,000 truck.

Yeah. >> And so it's not that, you know, expensive trucks equals bad. It's are you doing this from a place of financial strength versus it really being a detriment to your financial future.

>> Yeah. We should have told Ken, if he's still listening, get steak dinner tonight. You know, >> absolutely. >> Celebrate the fact that your wife is going to be so in the decision. Oh, even >> it's a date night with the truck. >> In the new truck. >> In the old truck. >> I like the old truck cuz you don't want to get the old grease on the new seats.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel uh joins me. Uh

all of a sudden I can't talk sometimes.

It happens. >> I have that effect on people. >> Yeah. Speechless. >> It's your cologne. It's uh it throws me off. >> I think more of it. It's a musk.

>> That's what it is. 888255225

is the number to join George and I. We're having fun today as we always do, but we're going to help you in the process. Joe is up in Orlando, Florida.

Joe, how can we help?

>> Hello. How are you guys today?

>> Oh, we're having a blast. How are you?

>> Good. Good. Well, I'm hoping you guys

can settle a disagreement between my husband and I about paying off our mortgage. >> Okay.

I believe we should use a mutual fund

that we have to pay it off right now.

And he would rather do it with cash flow. >> Okay. Give us the numbers. How much to pay off the house?

>> The balance on the mortgage is about $29,000.

>> Okay. And if we uh don't pay it out of the

mutual fund, if we were to do husband's plan, what is the date? Is he attaching

a date by which it's paid off through your normal income?

>> About 6 months to a year. 6 months would be really aggressive. Um and a year

would be a little well less aggressive, of course. >> How much is that? It doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. How much is the house worth?

The house is worth about 700,000.

>> And give us your retirement uh portfolio.

>> We have about $850,000

in just retirement savings.

>> And then non-retirement, what do you have? >> Well, we have the mutual fund that is worth about $37,000.

And we have cash about another $60,000

of other liquid cash between our bank accounts. >> Why not just use the cash?

>> Because we've got some other large purchases that we need to make this summer. >> Okay. And what is what's the priority?

Is it the large purchases this summer?

>> Yes. >> Nothing's on fire with the mortgage.

It's getting paid off. Let's say it's going to happen within the next 6 to 12 months. no matter how we do it. Can we agree on that? >> Yes. >> Now everyone's happy already.

>> Yes. >> So now it's just what strategy and tactic are we going to use to get there?

Mutual fund cash putting extra through future income and then these future purchases. Is this going to drain the savings or do you have another emergency fund?

>> Uh it wouldn't drain the savings? No. We just have to buy another vehicle for my my son who's become of driving age.

>> Well, what are we looking at? What are we thinking about spending on that?

>> Um, well, he's going to get his brother's older car and then we're going to replace that car. About a $25,000

purchase is what we're looking at.

>> Okay. I'm just doing the math. So, that leaves us 35, right?

>> Right. >> Okay. And what's the other big You said you said plural purchases.

>> We may have to replace our roof.

>> Okay. What's that going to cost?

>> Well, probably about 15.

>> Okay. Okay. So, that gets us down to 20.

And that's if we don't replenish it and put more money in there as we go.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Well, do you have an emergency fund separate of this $60,000 in cash?

>> No. >> Okay. Well, what is a 3 to six month uh emergency fund for you? What's that amount? >> About about $30,000.

>> Mhm. Perfect. So, how about after these large purchases are complete, we replace the roof, we get the car. Anything above the 30 goes toward the house and then anything that's remaining on the mortgage we take from the mutual fund.

>> Deal.

>> Deal. >> Then we don't deplete the mutual fund.

Which, by the way, here's my rub with what you guys Here's here's what happened. Here's what went wrong. You were investing money with no purpose

>> or there was a purpose and now you decided I want a different purpose than he had in mind.

>> It's a very old mutual fund. It's a It's a mutual fund that I started from a car

accident money, okay, >> when I was quite young. So, it's kind of just left over. So, it's it's it's been there for quite some time.

>> Okay. So, this is just sort of bonus money that's been sitting around.

Obviously, you're going to have some capital gains taxes. So, I would look into that. I don't think that's why he didn't want to liquidate it, but that could be part of his. >> But I will tell you, um, I'm going to throw a different, uh, scenario out because you said if we got aggressive,

um, we could pay it off in 6 months. If we didn't get aggressive, normal cash flow, this house is paid off in 12 months. I don't like taking the tax hit

to do this. So, I actually am in in

agreement with your husband because of these other expenses, George. I I'm just gonna stick to it. You guys have been very aggressive. I mean, very committed to do this.

I just wouldn't empty I wouldn't take any money out of the mutual fund. I think I'd pay this off in six to 12 months out of our normal cash flow and have the cash for all the other things that you got to do. Don't touch the emergency fund. That's just where I'm at.

But that's only because George, I don't disagree with your opinion. I just I just don't want to use that mutual fund money for >> this. That's why I asked them to calculate it because it might not be as much as you think.

2,000. Now we're talking a few hundred bucks. And so I don't think it's as scary as, you know, hundreds of thousands being liquidated. But uh Joe, I I think there's a good compromise here. I don't think either of you are wrong. Uh you guys are being very intentional with even paying this mortgage off. Now, if he said, "I never want to pay it off," then I would think we'd have a bigger problem here.

>> But it's really just about tactics and semantics. And so I think splitting the difference. I want you both to be a little bit feel like we both kind of lost and we both kind of won.

>> That's that's marriage. >> But a great situation to be in. So good for you. >> Congratulations. Baby steps millionaires about to have a paid for house.

>> So fun. >> It's a good life. Good problem to have.

>> Steve is up in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

Steve, how can we help?

>> Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um I'm 36 years old. My wife is 31.

We're on baby step number seven. Uh, we're debtree. Our house is paid off.

All of our cars are paid off, but we're thinking about buying a bigger house.

Something that's going to put us about

$500,000 in debt again.

>> How much did you have the first time?

>> So, our house is worth about 350,000.

Um, and we're not sure if maybe renting

it out to get a little bit of extra income. We're not we're not going to have a mortgage on the other house and have this investment property over here.

I would say just sell it. Use all the proceeds to put towards the next house.

And you're talking about like a $750,000 $800,000 house.

>> No, no, no. I was talking about a $500,000 $550,000 house.

>> Okay. Well, if you put your three your 300,000 in proceeds that you'll get from selling yours, now we're talking about a $200,000 mortgage, >> right? >> That you'll pay off how quickly?

Uh well, my first mortgage was probably around 160 and I paid it off in seven years. >> Okay. Well, if you can you guys pay it

off more aggressively in this case?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, 10 years ago, we were not making as much as we were we are now.

>> Okay. And what's your take-home pay every month as a household?

>> Uh every month, so my yearly salary or

or combined yearly salary is about 150,000. >> Okay. um base salary is about $50,000

each and then we get commissions, tips, bonuses from our businesses.

>> So, a healthy six figure income. You can easily afford a $200,000 mortgage and let's make a spit shake and go, "Hey, we're going to pay this thing off in 3 years." And that way, you're not going backwards for a long period of time. It's not a sin to go from baby step seven back to six, but we don't want to hang out there for seven years either.

Why the sell the house? >> Why the spit in the shake? >> I don't know. It just feels more official. That feels like a true bond.

>> Coming from a germaphobe like you, I'm a little surprised. I would never do that. Just kiss. If you kiss, you've already done it. I'm just saying. >> Oh, I see.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together.

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All

right, New York City is where we're going next. Lee is joining us. Lee, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you uh guys for taking my call. So, my question is um I live in my

childhood home with my sister and my boyfriend. Last summer we started renovation and my sister decided to move out. So now I just want to know is she still responsible for part of the renovation for the house?

>> I mean did did we get her to sign anything? Did we did we sign anything?

>> No. There was no agreement that hey yep we're going to do these renovations.

>> Well she knew we were going to Well, she was here when we started the renovation.

>> Yeah. But was there we know there was no sign thing, but was there a a conversation around the breakfast table?

Was it 50/50? >> This is going to cost about X amount of dollars. Are you in?

>> No. >> Is there any agreement about this co-ownership situation?

>> No, she's just on the the title. She's on the title of the house. It's our childhood house that um we got from our parents. >> Okay. Are these necessary repairs or are these like improvements, upgrades?

Yeah. Improvement upgrade.

>> And I have a sense that you were the one driving the train. You were the leader, the ideiator kind of executor.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Here's the tough news. If there's nothing in writing, you can't force her to pay for these improvements and upgrades. It's like an elective surgery.

>> That's right. >> So, if there was a necessary, like, hey, the foundation's cracked and we both own this house. I think you'd have an argument to go, we're going to split this. >> But if it's, hey, I just want a new kitchen and she was there when you started it.

I don't think you're gonna have a case here. In which case, I would limit this if you can't afford it. Are you going into debt for this or are you cash flowing it? >> No, no, no, no.

We have we have I have cash. Um, I just received a trust from my uncle about 3 years ago, so I'm using that. >> Okay. Here's what I might do and I think is wise.

You would you should drop an agreement saying, "Hey, I'm putting this much in upgrades. I'm going to get that much more out of the house when it sells." >> Right. That's fair. >> Right.

>> Okay.

>> Well, what I was going to do is I was going to wait until I have the whole total for the renovation and then I was going to say this is your cut.

>> So, good. You haven't brought it up. So, our our point to you is you don't even have a common sense argument on this one. So, don't burn any calories or create any tension with your sister on this.

I think you bring it up in the form of what George said. Hey, I've decided to do this, as you know, and I think it's going to add this kind of value, but I'm going to get a realtor's take on this. Not going to make up a number based on all my receipts, >> and then I I want to know if you're okay if when we sell this. I think George's advice is great.

>> Or you go, or we could split this 50/50, and nothing changes.

>> But it makes no sense for for her to benefit from the appreciation. you know, this house is going to be more expensive. That's right. I agree. Because of the renovations, and so therefore, she shouldn't get all the benefit when you floated all the the money for it. But this is it's part of the mess when you co-own a house, even with family, >> right? >> It's just hard to to not make it messy.

Uh so, the other part is what's the long-term game plan with this house? Are you going to live in it forever? Is there a plan to sell it? Can you sell it without her writing off on it?

>> No. Well, actually, there's no longterm.

My my daughter will probably inherit the house.

>> How old's your daughter?

>> 24. >> Okay. Is she has she said, "I would love to have this house when you're when you're gone." >> For now, yeah. She's not going to be able to afford a mortgage. My house is almost paid off.

>> Cool. Well, um I would talk to your sister ASAP. I'd get all the numbers as soon as possible and go, "Here's what the total cost is. keep it reasonable because there's a chance you don't ever get this money back. And so I would limit um what you're doing. It's easy to go crazy when you're doing renovations and they're always more expensive than you thought they were going to be.

>> Of course. >> And it always takes longer.

>> Of course. >> All right. Best of luck. Yeah. Thanks, Lee. Thanks for the call.

>> Uh let's go to Steve uh who is in our

backyard here of Nashville, Tennessee.

Steve, how can we help?

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call today. >> Sure. >> So, uh, my my my questions are all regarding just getting out of debt. Um, so I I work full-time, have a business

that I do as well, and over the last

five years. Um, I've accumulated

about $434,368

of debt >> and for the business.

>> Uh, no, that's my mortgage. It's all my debt. I had a mortgage before the business. >> Okay. Outside of the mortgage, how much debt do you have?

>> It's 166,37.

>> Okay. And what is that comprised of?

>> It's uh my vehicles. I have two two

vehicles, my wife's car, my car, credit cards, and loans.

>> What are you taking home from the business each year?

Last year I ended up clearing 37,000.

>> That's not great.

>> How long you been running this business?

>> About five years. >> Are you running? >> Are you running any of your expenses through the business or you're only getting 37,000?

>> Yeah, I'm running all my expense uh you know, my expenses that I can through my business. Uh we had we had about $99,000

in in revenue but paid taxes on the 37.

>> What's your household income? Is your wife working outside the home?

>> She does. She works somewhat of a part-time full-time. She's she's making about 30,000 a year and I'm I'm clearing about another 80 at my job

full time. >> Oh, so you have a full-time job on top of that. >> Yes. >> Well, you buried the lead there. I was like, "Oh my goodness, how are you guys surviving?" >> So the 37 that you paid yourself as a side hustle.

>> Yes, correct. >> I feel a whole lot better. I was like, "This dude's been at it for 5 years full time." >> I was about ready to tell you to shut the business down, man. It was going to get bleak fast. >> I'm sorry. >> So, you guys are making 150 grand a year.

>> Uh, that's before taxes.

>> Yeah. Gross household income 150 grand.

Okay. What's your question?

Well, my question is is that I'm overextended here big time. Um, you

know, I'm I'm all my payments and everything. You know, it's it's more about how can I get this cleared up and

start actually making putting money towards, you know, our retirement and things as opposed to just paying all these loans. >> Well, his answer is simple. You're driving your retirement right now.

>> Those cars >> were your retirement fund, but you decided, I want a nice car instead.

What's your combined car payment?

>> Uh, it's$,752.

>> Goodness gracious. What are these cars worth?

>> $1700.

Is that Did I hear that right? >> Yes. Yes.

>> Well, there's your answer.

>> Yeah. I've got one uh uh a Jeep that I

that I owe 56,000 on and I've got a Honda uh you know another Honda car that I owe 23,000 on >> and both of them uh you know are combined at 1752.

>> Yeah. So you've got about $80,000 in cars and you make 147. So that's a major problem and the parameter is no more than half your annual income tied up with things of wheels and motors. And so you guys are over that. And even if you weren't, I would tell you to sell these.

You don't need a $56,000 Jeep right now to live your life, do you?

>> No. >> Okay. So, we're going to sell both of these cars. Are you underwater on either of them?

>> The one Jeep I am. U last time I I hit

Carvana with it, they were offering >> Well, Carvana is going to give you pennies, dude, cuz they got to make a profit. Go to Kelly Blue Book, find the private party value, and sell this thing yourself. Facebook Marketplace, Auto Trader, get these cars listed and make sure that you have the difference in cash or a personal loan from your credit union and then you're gonna need a little bit of money to get some beater cars.

>> Yeah, she's uh you know, I've already talked to her and um yeah, she's she's on board. She was you know, her the the Honda is her car. I bought it in 25 um 24 and she and the car that we had, you

know, it was paid. It it was paid off and she was like, I don't even need a new car. You know, >> you just got excited and you deserve one, babe.

>> No, there was a repair coming >> and um we had it was a oneowner a one a

oneowner car. We bought it at Honda and we took it down there to get it repaired and um they gave us a good deal on it and and wanted to buy it. That's the way it went. >> Great deal. Leaving you guys broke was a terrible deal, my friend. So, you can clean this up. Sell the cars. Get aggressive. Do the debt snowball. And then we'll attack the mortgage later on.

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All right, folks. If you fly blind and just kind of willy-nilly through your taxes, boy oh boy, confusing,

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Lynette joins us in Denver, Colorado.

Lynette, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, uh thank you for taking my call. Love the show. Um I have paid off 37,000 in 15 months thanks to y'all.

>> Wow. I didn't do jack squad >> every day. >> I would have been sitting. >> You guys are encouraging. So, I appreciate y'all. Um, so now that I'm in

baby steps three, I'm trying to look at my emergency fund. Um, after this last

year, um, I made 115,000, but after

everything comes out, that includes my retirement that I was doing, I dropped me down to about 74,000.

Um, and I'm now I've upped my retirement

to 9%. I do get a 6% match, so that brings me up to the 15%. I'm looking at doing 2500 to 3,000 a month in emergency

fund until now until December because

I'm single and by myself. I'm just kind of wondering, is that about what I should be doing? Uh, 25% of my housing

is about 1,400 a month. making sure that's correct and just trying to get, you know, feedback from you guys. I'm also getting 30,000 from my dad in inheritance. I just opened up a fair win checking bundle that I heard about from you guys, but I haven't got the debit card yet. And that I plan on putting the 30 grand into a high yield savings account with them um until I get like

$250,000 saved up for future housing.

So, kind of want your guys's take. So, you got like 17 things going on. Let's clarify. So, I know. >> Do you have any savings right now?

>> Uh, about 2500 because I just paid off that 37,000.

>> Okay. So, let's go over the baby steps because there's some parts I want to clarify for you. So, baby step two, you obviously did debt snowball. You're completely debtree.

>> Yes. >> Now, baby step three is next, which means we are not investing yet.

>> Oh, I thought we were for the emergency fund. No, >> the emergency fund is separate. So emergency fund is 3 to six months of expenses in a high yield savings account. And until you get that, we're not going to invest a dime, even the match. And I know that go you're like, "Oh my gosh, well, I can't give up the match." Right.

>> Right. Right. >> But here's the thing. Doing seven things at once is not going to cause you to make progress.

>> And the good news is you're about to get 30k. Is that your emergency fund? Would that suffice?

>> Uh, yeah. I just was kind of hoping to put that towards a down payment because it's, you know, that's what my dad would have wanted was to put it towards a house, >> okay? But this is all, let's just look at it as a financial foundation. He wants you to be financially stable and free.

That that's the goal, right? And so part of that is making sure we don't have all of our money in a house and no money in savings, >> right?

And so the the proper >> step fiveyear plan >> if you want to continue on with the plan because it's been working for you then put the 30 grand in that high yield savings that becomes your emergency fund and then we can invest 15% of your income which means >> the match doesn't count. That is gravy on top. So you would ratchet up your retirement to 15% and you'd get the 6%

match on top of that.

>> Okay? >> That way you build the habit and consistency and if you have a job one day that doesn't have a match doesn't matter to you. you have the habit of investing 15% and living on the rest.

>> Okay, perfect. I'm glad you clear clarified. >> And then beyond that, you can save up for the down payment with any future money because now you have this foundation, no debt, emergency fund saved up, you're investing for the future, and now you can begin saving.

So, how long would it take you if you did it that way to save up a down payment? What's the number? 250,000.

>> Oh, well, cuz Colorado is crazy expensive. Most of the houses are 385 to

400,000 and with just my income, I'm guessing I'm gonna have to get like half of the down payment to be in my 25% of

my pay. >> Okay. So, how much could you save up each month if savings is covered and you're investing 15%. How much could you throw into a high yield savings for the down payment? >> About 2500 >> per month? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, doing the math on that, that's 30 grand a year, which means it's going to take you >> seven or eight years to get there.

>> Yeah. >> And therefore, we might need to go, all right, we need to up our income. We need to compromise on the type of house we were going to go for. Maybe it's a smaller house further out from the city for now to get our foot in the door.

Those kinds of things. Or you get you make peace with the fact that it's going to take you seven years to buy a home, >> right? and high yield is the best place to plant that. >> If it's going to take you seven years, I would say you can invest the money. Anything that's five plus years, you know, in the market, you're going to you have a better chance of being in the positive the longer you're in the market. But if it's one to two to three years, high yield savings is a much better bet.

>> Got it. Okay. >> But you're doing great. You have an awesome income. You're debtree. I would just sort of refocus because we got off the beaten path with the plan as soon as we got out of debt. That's why I was calling you. I mean, I just paid it off, so >> good for you. And you got the 30,000 already from the inheritance.

>> Um, it's going to be in a couple months.

>> Oh, in a couple months. Okay. Well, in the meantime, any extra money you have is going toward that emergency fund. And I would pause your investing down to 0% because it will light a fire under you and free up money to put in that emergency fund.

>> Okay. Just until I get the emergency fund and then I can go back to >> Exactly. >> Okay. All right.

>> You're doing great. I'm proud of you, Lynette. That's awesome. And listen, don't fall prey.

Listen, Lynette, don't fall prey to your friends telling you it's crazy that you would even think about waiting seven years to buy a house. Don't fall prey to that because again, what the advice George gave you, I know it's going to take seven years and that seems like forever. Uh, but you're still single right now.

>> 38. >> Okay, >> that's okay. Listen, >> average homeowner is what, 40 now?

>> Yeah. And that sucks. The >> number's changed. >> And by the way, that sucks and I hate that. >> It's going to be way longer for me, but that's okay. It's okay. >> Ken is way older than 45, so he can attest. And he's a young buck still.

>> Thank you. But you just confused the entire audience. And I'm not way older.

You think way what what constitutes way >> to Lynette? Seven years is a lifetime,

>> right? I mean, it is, but I'm like, it

is what it is, you know? I I don't want to picture. Your income is going to go up over time. You could meet someone and then have dual income. And so, this is not like a life sentence. Life is going to change. Your dreams are going to change. Your city could change. But in the meantime, just stack as much cash as you can. >> That's right. That's right.

>> Big picture thinking, Lynette. All right. And let me tell you something.

What's Let me tell you what you're dealing with. And I heard it in your voice. And I And I want to encourage you because this happens to all of us.

Great expectations, right? And when the

expectations that we had earlier in life don't pan out, it it sucks, right?

And and and here's what happens. And by the way, this happens to all of us relationally, professionally, physically, right? Uh I think of couples

that maybe want to have babies and it takes years and years and years. You know, there's just so many examples of this. But but it it's okay to allow

yourself to lament that, right?

>> Okay. >> But >> thank you. >> Yeah. Listen, it's okay because I heard you go, I'm 38, you know.

Well, because I mean this is like the first time I started doing retirement. I know it's okay. I got like 30k in retirement. I know >> Lynette, someone out there is 58 feeling like they're too late.

Someone out there is 28 thinking, man, I wish I got this stuff sooner. So, do not beat yourself up for that. >> That's what I'm trying to tell you, Lynette. I heard it and I want to encourage your heart.

You're not Listen, yes, you need to adjust now. the expectations you had for your life in this particular area haven't been met, but it doesn't mean that life in the future cannot still be really really good. And so that's the mindset you got to have.

>> Definitely. I'm just thankful to have the debt paid. Honestly, that ma'am weight off my shoulders. >> Listen, you're in great shape. You have much to be grateful for. Okay. Write down all the things that you're grateful for through this discipline of getting out of debt. Write all that stuff down tonight. And how proud. By the way, add a line. Add a add a column of what your dad would be proud of. Okay. And focus on that. >> Yeah. Get your head. >> God bless you guys. >> You, too.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

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stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramiesolutions.com/start.

All right, our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 28:1. The wicked

flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion. Our quote

of the day from James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits. Your success depends

on the risks you take. Your survival

depends on the risks you avoid.

All right. Thank you, James. >> I'll chew on that. >> Okay. Uh, Anna is joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anna, how can we help? >> Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. >> Well, we're excited to talk to you.

What's going on?

>> Well, um, my husband and I are hoping to get our income up and, um, he's been looking to make a career change. Um, just been struggling with kind of the steps to take on that. Does he know?

wondering if you had >> I'm so sorry. Yeah, I interrupted you.

So, I was going to ask, does he know which path he wants to take?

>> Um, right now we're kind of trying to narrow it down a little bit. Um, but

we're pretty sure that he would be good in techn in the field of technology.

>> Okay. And so, when you say try to narrow it down, are we talking about specific types of roles within technology?

>> Yeah. Uh he's he's applied for some positions with uh some companies and uh

hasn't hasn't gone anywhere yet because we were thinking that it would be best

to just get get some get some experience in in the field and then kind of >> what kind of tech jobs is he looking at because that's about the broadest category out there.

Um, so he's applied to some

uh cell phone companies.

>> Yeah. But again, I think we're asking are we talking about programming? Are we talking about engineering? Are we talking about >> sales? Yeah. Like the what what kind of role in tech?

>> So the last the last thing that he mentioned that he was interested in was coding. >> Okay. Has he taken a coding has he taken

a coding course, class, boot camp?

>> He he was looking into that.

>> Well, I'm going to tell you, has he done anything professional? Has he ever drawn any paycheck for coding?

>> No. >> Okay. So, one of the first things I would do, and this we'll we'll kind of pause on this after I say this, is what

good coding boot camps, courses can you take that you can afford, and let's go get that because many times in those uh coding uh courses or co-ops or whatever,

uh they they have placement services.

And so if he wants to get to coding, uh, it might be a good idea to get qualified in coding and then see about the placement as opposed to I'm gonna go get a job at a cell phone company and then tinker around with coding. Now, that would be one thing, but I want to pause here. What's your financial situation?

Because you mentioned you guys need more income. So, what's going on there?

Um, so, so we have a we have a one and a half year old and a baby on the way and so we're looking at just cost cost of

living is going to be increasing. Um,

and so just

uh >> I guess I should have asked the question >> that his paycheck doesn't change all the time. >> Okay, let let me run you through a couple quick things here so George can can plug in here. Uh

what is your combined income? Your income? His income? Give me both of those actually.

>> Oh, okay. Yeah. So, my husband's income right now is

it it

2700 and 3,500 a month. It it fluctuates a

lot. >> Okay. Food service. >> And and and and what does he do?

Uh he he delivers pizzas

>> full time. Oh, that's his full-time job.

>> Um it it's never really been a full-time job. It's been between 30 and 40 hours a

week, sometimes less.

>> Why is he not working more?

Um

he has had some medical uh some medical

issues that have been a setback. Um and we're we're working through that. It's been getting better. >> Okay. And are you are you making any income?

>> Right now I'm doing Door Dash.

>> Okay. >> But I've had I've had some I've had different jobs and than having kids. So >> And do you guys have any debt?

Uh, we have a little bit of medical debt. >> And that's it. How much is that?

>> What's that? >> How much debt?

>> Um, it's it's a little under 3,000.

>> Okay. So, we we definitely have an income and I and that's the primary reason for you calling is we got to get our income up and we do. But for him to

get into tech, there is >> there's always a ladder no matter the industry, right? And so with him not having any tech experience or at this point he has no tech training. That's what I've been asking. Right? So it's going to be very difficult for him to get on an actual tech ladder. He might

go work for a tech company. Not a bad idea, >> but maybe he's in the warehouse or you know what I mean? He's adjacent. Uh which is what sounds like he's been trying to do, but he's still going to have to get some basic training. So, one exercise for both of you that you can do tonight is to get online and in your

area, you go on one of these job websites. There's national boards or you can go look at companies, those local companies that your tech companies and you look at some roles. But what you're trying to do is is research and see what is entrylevel tech in coding look like

and then we could say what does entrylevel work in uh uh uh security

like data security and you know uh data analyst you know all the things get a good view of the landscape and always look for what is the lowest rung on the ladder because that's where he's going to enter with no experience. So then we

step back further and we say what qualifications does he need and we start with does he need a college degree and many times at these tech companies you don't but you do need some type of uh fundamental training okay sometimes we're seeing more and more where companies have their own training program that might be an option but you guys as a young couple with one little one and another one on the way and very little income and you guys are out shupping pizzas and delivering food and I appreciate the hustle there's no shame in that I don't dishonor that but I am saying you need more and you agree that's why you called us.

>> Are you with me so far? Anything that I said that you're not sure about?

>> I'm with you. >> Okay, that's urgent. Like we are urgently figuring out what the plan should be and what the plan could be. In

the interim, I would like to see him get a little bit more aggressive, and I'm going to give him uh a couple of gifts.

So, um we're going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has a career assessment in it, the Get Clear Assessment. 20 minutes. It's absolutely worth it. Yes, ma'am. It's got an AI component to it, and it'll spit out suggestions and that'll help verify or

give him some more ideas. Step one, I'm also going to give him the book, The Proximity Principle, and he needs to read the proximity principle by the end of Sunday night. He should be almost through with it. And this is about how to make good connections because it is

connections that open up and unlock jobs and opportunities. You tracking with me?

So, those two books are my gift, but you guys need to do the research.

>> George, on the money piece, they still got some small debt here. I want to bring you in because we got to hustle through that. Do you guys have anything in in savings?

>> Uh yeah, actually we do. Um we we

actually opened a high yield savings account. Um we have

I think we have about 25,000.

>> You have $25,000 in a savings account? I

guess I should have asked that.

>> You buried the lead there. That's like almost your yearly income.

>> How did you save that up?

Um,

well, I've been doing >> I feel like you're not telling us the truth, Anna. The amount of pausing is giving me some pause. Yeah. >> What's going on?

>> Well, I'm just trying to think through like I've I've had a lot of different things that I've done, too. Um,

>> okay. For the shortage of time, I'm going to interrupt cuz George, tell them what they do with the 25,000.

>> They're paying off the medical debt today. any debt you have is going to get paid with that savings and anything left over is becoming your emergency fund.

That gives you guys some financial cushion and some financial peace as he explores these new options. And so that's that's your your ramp to get into this new field while he's delivering pizzas. And he needs to be working more if if his health can support it. You need to be working more as well cuz this baby's coming and it is going to get more expensive. But it's not hopeless.

We just need to get him the right steps and Ken's resources will do that.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm George Kamel joined [music] by my good pal and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruze. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Muhammad kicks us [music] off in Halifax, Nova Scotia. It's a fun place to go. What's going on, Muhammad?

Hi, how are you? Good. How can we help today? Um I have a question. So, my grandmother

is going to visit me on in July.

Um now, I love her very much. This is more of a love question. I know it's not one of the most smart decision to make.

I drive a really nice car right now. I drive a 20 22 Nissan Pathfinder. I paid

all cash for it. Good. And now when she's coming, I want to get an even better car just because I would love to

spoil her with an even better car.

Um is it wise for me to sell this for

I'm going to probably be able to sell this for 35 and buy uh around a $90,000 car?

For your grandmother?

>> [laughter] >> I'm so confused.

For her to keep?

Yeah, no no no not for her to keep, for me to keep, but just it's just I'm making an impulsive decision because she's coming and I really want her to see how well I'm doing for myself. So, you want to make a six-figure impulsive decision to impress somebody who's there temporarily so that they think you're doing better than you are?

No, I I am doing I can easily I I I could I could pay full cash for that car. That wasn't the question.

The motivation is what we're asking about.

Oh. And it's your grandmother. Out of all people in the world, does she actually Out of all all people in the world, nanas love their grandchildren.

That's like >> [laughter] >> I I have a feeling she would appreciate having like massage seats and you know, and just like uh Are you Are you How How often are we going Are we living in this car for 5 months? Is this Are you even for real?

I am I am I'm being very for real. I went and checked out the car yesterday.

I told the guy I'd come around like 5:00 or 6:00 today and tell him if I want it or not. What car is this?

Uh this is a it's a Yukon.

What does grandma need a Yukon for? Is she sleeping in the back? Is there a mattress?

Oh, no. It's also because well, my grandmother Are you single? >> How old are you, Muhammad? I am single.

I'm I am 22. Okay.

>> of wish you were married cuz your wife would slap you right now if she heard this call. This is insane.

No uh yeah, I know. It's like it's insane, but my parents like when my grandmother comes, she she's like a magnet. So, when she comes to like North America, Where is she coming from? all of our relatives. She's coming She She's coming from India to my my home country.

Okay. And in in their culture, is it big to like, "Hey, look at how impressive my life is?" It's not It's not as so much like that, but um How much do you make a year?

So, I currently own two companies. I started one when I was 16 and one I started 6 months ago. Uh the one I started when I was 16 was a clothing company which does really well for itself. It has nine employees full-time.

I maybe go there twice a week to just look look at stuff. Way to go.

>> And but nothing Uh just just to like the the warehouse we have. >> So, what did your taxes show last year? What did you What did you bring in? What was your taxable income? Uh last year I pulled in around 250. Amazing. Dude, you're crushing it. If I'm grandma, that's what I'm proud of. Not the car upgrade. >> you. You're a successful, bright young man. She loves you for you. Yeah.

>> car is going to be the ticket for her to love you even more, this relationship is built on on a farce. Oh, no. It's It's not like it's she's going to love me more cuz of the car. No, you just want to impress your grandmother. Then just rent a car for 5 months if you want to impress her.

No, Muhammad, you got to like you got to detach your identity from all this stuff. This is not who you are.

Like if you woke up tomorrow If you woke up tomorrow and you were driving a Honda Civic, would that absolutely trip you out? And if it would, then I would I would ask some deeper questions of what's going on. How much your identity is wrapped up in this?

I have a Honda Civic right now. I have my second car is a Honda Civic. So, you have two cars. I use it for short trips.

Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. You got two cars. I use it for short trips. It's It's really nice.

>> some problems, Muhammad. Right now you don't have enough. Oh my gosh. I do I do my You need some reality. And I you've you've done so well and I think that's caused you to go, "Well, I have to live a certain way because I've done so well." And the more you can realize that your identity is not wrapped up in stuff and how much money you make, the better relationships you're going to have and the better life you're going to have. >> Listen, we're not mad at $90,000 cars.

And if you can pay cash for a $90,000 car and that's what you want, Muhammad, because you want to upgrade your car, you enjoy cars, and whatever the motivation is, but asking yourself if nobody sees this purchase, would I still want it? And if the answer is, "Yeah, I still would. I would still want this." Like if that was your if that was the beginning of this call, um it'd be a green light for me cuz I think you could afford it and you would be fine. But what I'm scared of is

that if you make this purchase because of the motivation that you just explained to us, you have set up a pattern in your life and a lane at which is unrealistic and

unfulfilled. It's an unfulfilling lane that you're setting up that if I just get this purchase, I'm going to feel good from the ego stroke of my grandmother who says like, "Oh my gosh, you're just amazing and look how successful you are." Whatever Whatever you need from her, whatever that need is, that need is still going to be there and it's going to and you're going to look to other people to fulfill it. And so, I want Muhammad to be content and

happy with what Muhammad has regardless of what anyone thinks and especially grandma. I mean, my gosh, granny's and nanas, they're like the number one fan of grandkids.

Like they she will be happy to be in a Honda Civic, you know? [snorts] What does she What does she drive? That's the question. What's she used to?

Is she rolling around in Rolls-Royces?

Uh no, but she she Well, my parents are

doing very well for themselves, too. And they have obviously spoiled my grandmother a lot. And her husband did very very well. So, my grandfather who just passed away this January, um so uh

she drives a she does not drive, but she gets driven around in a Toyota Land Cruiser which which >> Yeah, that's right. I think you come from a successful family. You do. You come from a successful family and you want to graft into that message that's been told to you.

And what we're giving you is is a different perspective on life. And again, it's not all of this stuff is bad, but when the stuff has you at that point to the point that you're going to go and make a purchase again, solely out of wanting someone to feel good about it and and feel good about you because of this purchase, all of it. I just don't like the motivation and I think it's it's going to end up you're going to end up in a in a like a rat in a wheel running and running and running the whole your whole life cuz it's not going to be grandma next, it's going to be the girl next, it's going to be a parent, it's going to You know what I mean?

Plug in anybody. And then the goal post moves, too. Cuz now it's like, "Well, you don't have a sports car. You need to be nice to have a Lamborghini to the mix if you really want to keep up." And then it becomes a lifestyle you you can't keep up with.

Even if you can afford it, you admitted this was impulsive and there's better ways to spend this money, right? Do you have a mortgage? Yeah. Yeah, no.

rent. That was my second question. I have two options right now. I rent a two-bedroom apartment. I live alone.

Don't need two bedrooms. I know I know that's what but I like an open space.

Now that grandma's coming and she's a magnet, she's going to pull maybe my parents or my brothers and everyone here. Hence, I'm going to need a little bigger of a space. I was talking to a realtor yesterday and she she showed me this house that's up for sale for 395.

Now, I could scramble and gouge and and get that 395 to get that house. How And

she gave me a second option. Near where I live, they built new townhouses that are up for rent. I currently pay 2,500.

Those townhouses [music] are up for rent for 3,500. >> it's all the same philosophy. No, I would not be making an an impulse I would not make an impulse decision on buying a house, Muhammad. They can afford to go stay somewhere >> and wait till [music] they leave and then you make a decision for your future for you. No, we do not need to be impulsing townhouses. >> to drop money, I'd rather be on a house than a car. But do it for you and for nobody else.

>> [music]

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Patty is up next in Salt Lake City.

Patty, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, how [music] are you? We're doing great. What's your question today?

My husband has worked for his parents,

his family farm for the last 31 years.

They're super controlling.

Is it crazy for me to accept a plan for succession?

They control his salary, his time. They

even control the house we live in. Like we paid for half of the house and they refused to put any of it in our names.

Like we can't even remodel it. I went to them and cuz it's built in the 70s. I have like electric blue bathrooms. I asked them to remodel it and or he wouldn't ask them. I asked them

by a letter. They wouldn't even respond, but they told him that I wasn't grateful enough for the house that they provided for us.

But we paid half of it.

So it's paid for in cash, but they paid half, you paid half.

Yes.

This is insane, Patty. You know that.

Nothing about this is normal. Okay, so for on one end of the spectrum that they control his income and time, yada yada.

That would be like having a boss, right? You're the company You could say Dave Ramsey controls my >> [laughter] >> income and time.

Yeah, so there's a level of like I'm working for a person and they have set up a company in a certain way.

But the housing situation

for sure is not Yeah, you guys are not in a good spot because if the house is not in your name and you've put half of your money into it, you legally have no assets, right? From a from a home perspective.

Correct.

What is your husband saying? These are his parents. Does he see that as not

good for your future?

He doesn't really mind. He thinks that

they will just be fair

when it when the time comes. But my

thing is I will ask him like we have no retirement plan with him because of course you expect your ground on a farm to be your retirement plan.

And that is fine.

When we started this 30 years ago, we used to have family meetings and it would be like, oh, we're going to let you start signing checks. We're going to let you do this. We might have you buy some more ground and put it in your name. None of that ever came to fruition. And so now here we are 30

years later.

And we have nothing

If they were going to be fair, they would have done it by now. And that's so that's a that's a marriage problem, Patty, between you and your husband deciding what you want your life to look like. And it's as much his fault and your

fault as the parents' fault. They've just set up the life they want and you guys have chosen to go along with it until you're fed up and you've called this show. So at that point it's going to be yeah, you and your husband have to figure out which one's your future to look like.

In a pretty big way cuz it'll probably if you do it the right way, I think the healthiest plan is going to include a lot of boundaries that have not existed for 30 years and I don't know if his parents will be up for the task, but your husband kind of has to decide, do I want my my future and my marriage and my family be taken care of or am I going to just still be a child and still do what mom and dad say, right? I mean to a degree.

Oh, absolutely. I don't think they're going to take kindly to him all of a sudden having a backbone, do you?

No, no, they won't. And and he knows.

Like he tells me he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. And when I ask him, I'm like, so basically we can't make a plan for our family. We have

I mean you can't even get the money out of this house cuz you have you can't even sell it.

No, we can't. Okay, my question, Patty, why did you write them a letter? Why did you not just call and talk to them? Is the relationship strained right now that you can't just call and have a discussion about it?

I can talk to my mother-in-law, but the father-in-law doesn't talk on phone or you know, or he doesn't talk or you know, he doesn't want to. So I just thought it would be easier then I could just express myself a little better with that. And I thought my mother-in-law would call me back, but she didn't. And then she just went to my husband and she wouldn't even show it to my father-in-law cuz she said I wasn't grateful enough.

Because he's very There's some narcissistic behavior that I'm I'm capturing here. And I think this is going to have to come between your husband and his parents. It's your Yeah, I mean at this point, Patty, it's you and your husband that it's the issue.

There's a marriage issue between you and your husband and there's a business family issue between your husband and his parents and it's going to get awkward. And for him to continue to choose them over you, Patty, That's what hurts. That's where the resentment is coming I mean I hear it all in your voice, which I get. I would be pissed too, probably. But also have you said anything for 30 years?

Oh, yes, lots of times, lots of times.

And so what does he say? What does your husband say?

He just shut down. He shut down and he said Yeah, you have you guys need to go to marriage You guys need to go to marriage counseling. You'll have a breakdown in your marriage.

>> He showed up for two times and then he wouldn't do it again because they told him that it was crazy, too. Okay, so well, Patty, you have some decisions to make about your life. So I don't I don't know if we can fix that on a on a 7-minute call. I'm so sorry, but Fixing 31 years of toxic relationships >> Yeah, so I mean it would I mean there would be some ultimatums for me.

Not for like a not in a threatening way, but just in a hey, I'm sick and tired of this and I don't feel safe. I don't feel like we have a future. I don't feel secure. I have a lot of fear.

I don't like how I've been treated in this part. And and and Patty, if you've had stuff in the past that you've done wrong, admit that, too, right? I mean like it's not like it's all their fault.

Um But if my but yeah, if I'm married to a guy and I and as a wife that you're saying all these things and he doesn't at least listen, take into consideration, have conversations about it, figure out a way to make this life work for you. I don't I don't know what else I don't know what else to tell you.

Yeah, I that's kind of what I thought.

And he he makes it like when I say, so basically we are not going to know what we're going to get until your parents are no longer with us. And he'll go, so now you want my parents dead. And I'm like, that's not the case. This is just common sense in planning. And so

Well, then yeah, I think you guys need a Yeah, I think I think a ask would be that we need to create our own retirement plan. How old are you guys?

55 and 52. Okay, well, I would say for

me to feel secure secure, I need a path

of retirement that has nothing to do with your family and the farm because nothing is documented. And so there's not security there. We don't have security in it because we don't know what's going on. And so I need to start I want to start putting money away for our family in retirement, right? And you guys put that in the you know, and he I don't know if he'll go for it, but that's what that would be a plan. Are you working outside the home, Patty, or have you?

I have. I have. So about 10 years ago, I

started my own business and I was super blessed. And so I have been putting away

for me, you know, or putting into retirement since stuff, SEP plans, Roth plans.

That's what I would be doing. It's creating your own little island to be insulated from the chaos that could ensue.

But like I was just told like that he's

like, well, now you're becoming financially independent

from me and you don't need me. And I was like, yeah, that's been part of my plan because you just didn't care for our family and you just do everything with your family. So I had to take care of myself.

So I would continue that. Yeah, in conversations moving forward, something John Delony always talks about is um the more you point the finger, your family, you, you know, all of that, immediately defenses go up. Like that's just human nature. You're immediately He's going to want to defend himself and you know, I mean that's that's natural.

So as much as you can talk about you, Patty, and what you can control is you.

Um and what it's doing to you. And um

that's how I would that's how I would approach the conversations with your husband. But yeah, you guys need some um

deep untangling. And there are a lot of generational farmers that we've talked to on this show. It's very difficult from a financial perspective, a passing down generationally between siblings. I mean there's there's just a there's a lot there and people have done it really well and communicated very clear expectations. Everyone is in the know. It's, you know, very very um

I don't know. It's been very clear.

>> [music] >> This sounds like the opposite, Patty, that it's very very muddled and

and a lot of questions. So All you can do is continue to ask for clarity and set up your own boundaries and set up your own financial world. Not because you don't trust your husband, but because you need security in your own life. Whether that's with him or without him. You deserve that. So I appreciate the call. >> [music] >> This is going to take a lot of untangling and I don't know that you can do it in their lifetime, but I I hope there's a lot of redemption and healing on the other side.

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>> [music]

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Joseph is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on Joseph?

Hey, what's going on man? Not much.

>> I am uh 24 years old living paycheck to paycheck have been since I was 18. Can't never seem to get ahead.

I'm just trying to figure out some way to get ahead. Mhm. Um What do you think

is the cause of that if you look back over those six years?

I've just just been one thing after another. Every Every time I get ahead get money saved up whatever else something happens something breaks something and I just I can't never seem to get ahead. So you got a lot of emergencies. Murphy's moved in with you. Is it What's your income right now? Has it been going up over those six years?

Um no not really. Um uh I'm I'm making 22 an hour right now which would be what like 45 a year?

Yeah. What are you doing um in that career? What is that job?

Right now I am a service technician.

Okay. What does the ladder look like in that world? If you were to move up and up and up?

I can uh I can move up pretty well um

within within probably the next I've

only been doing this for uh six months now.

Um but majority of the time within about eight years I can move up to a position where I'm making a hundred grand if uh work really hard at it. But right now it's just trying to make it to that point. >> Yeah. Well how much debt do you have?

I'm sitting at $26,000 in debt. Break

that down for us. What's What types of debt What's the balances?

I have 15,000 in debt on a truck

um truck loan.

Um I have 6,000 in debt on a boat loan

and then the rest of it is stuff I did when I was younger dumb and stupid and it's like uh uh Amazon Affirm stuff or Yeah, buy now pay later all that. Okay, so what I'm hearing is you said man life just been coming at me. I've never heard of a boat coming at you. You know what I mean?

Like that's the >> [laughter] >> That's true. But you see what I'm saying here? If I looked in the mirror I go man like yes, life has happened. There have been some emergencies but that's not the problem.

The problem is I want some stuff and I can't wait till I have the money to buy the stuff. So I'm going to borrow money from other people. And so if we can get out of that mentality then we can get you out of this cycle. But it's going to have to start with you saying I'm done with debt.

I'm never touching this stuff again. Tried it got burnt. I'm going to sell the boat. I'm going to work those three jobs.

Well, the thing about that is so um

when I turned 18 um my my grandma had had some money she left to me. It paid for my truck and my boat. I I didn't know anything on them.

I bought them right out in cash. My truck broke down five years later I had to buy another one. It It was that big of a money pit had to buy another one.

My boat motor that I had it blew up had to buy another one. I'm in my boat any and every chance I can get.

>> Okay Joseph Joseph Joseph Joseph we got to we got to change our language, okay?

You did not have to. No one had a gun to your head that you had to, okay?

You wanted to. That was a want. Well, well. >> okay, so just I'm I'm I'm being for real though because when there's a mentality of this thing breaks so that means I

immediately and you're normal. This We get calls like this all the time. People this is people's mentality. Well, there's no other option. I have to go. I have to go and get a car loan. I have to go and buy a new boat. I have to.

No, you don't. You really don't. I mean You'd like to. Yeah. I mean you Like you could you could get a ride from a friend.

You could bike. Like you know what I'm saying? [laughter] Like I know those are not >> Could get a canoe. I know those are not realistic. You You could get a good good canoe. Those are not realistic. I get that but the point is when you start separating needs and wants from like a very extreme degree it causes you then to say okay, this is not a this is not a need. I now have to make other decisions if debt is not on the table. So that means I have to go buy a $2,000 truck

that barely putts putts putts down the road but it's going to but that's what I can afford. I don't have money for a boat so I'm going to have to say no. I'm going to say no to myself. I can't get a boat. So So there are this you do have to um

filter through some of these decisions because that is what's caused you to be here. And when you go that extreme Joseph which it sounds extreme but when you do I'm telling you every purchase you make you're going to be thinking do I need this? And in this point of you getting out of debt and all of it a lot of it's going to be like nope, I don't need it. Nope, I don't need it. And Saturdays I'm going to be working.

Sundays I'm going to be working cuz I need to be making some extra money to pay all this stuff off. Um and then once we have money then we can start saving towards goals of things that we want cuz boats are not bad and trucks are not bad but the way we've gone about them has caused a lot of stress and a paycheck to paycheck living because you have payments. Like if all those payments were freed up every month you wouldn't be paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, what's your truck payment?

My truck payment's actually it's only uh $426.

Okay, do me a favor never say only in front of a payment again, Joseph.

You hear that? Cuz that was you justifying the payment.

Yeah. You don't have You don't have that money. You're living paycheck to paycheck. $425?

That'd change your life. If that was just sitting in your account month to month. So we got four 425 on that.

What's the boat payment?

The boat payment is 160. Okay, and then

where are the rest of those payments for all the other stuff you mentioned? Um uh one of them's $60.

The other one's $80.

Um and I think the other one's there's one more and it's like 60 bucks. Okay.

Okay, so we're over $700 in debt.

>> is what I have. So if I gave you a $700 raise would that help you get out of this paycheck to paycheck cycle? It definitely would. You see where we're going with this? It's time to aggressively attack the debt with no other focus You don't need to be on a boat. You don't have time.

You're going to be working too much.

That's the great news. So what could you sell the boat for today?

Not much. It's a It's a piece of junk honestly. The motor's the only thing that's worth anything and that's cuz it's brand new.

I'm so confused. So did you buy it as a piece of junk?

So no. I bought it in in 2018 as a

decent boat and over the years it has proven to be a piece of junk. >> It sounds like you destroy [laughter] everything you touch. So you put a $6,000 motor on a piece of junk. >> [clears throat] >> motor on a PIECE OF JUNK.

>> JOSEPH. [laughter] OOF. See bad, right? Not good. Would you agree?

I do. So far >> Okay, great. I'm glad I'm glad we're like tracking. Some people you know you don't really track. We're tracking with Joseph. Okay. >> I'm not trying to justify but at the time at the time I was >> Continue. This is going to be good.

60 to 80 hours a week I was making the

money. I It wasn't a problem. Um

but uh um But life happens and you have risk in your life and suddenly it does become a problem when things change. That's what That's what happens with debt. That's what happens with debt.

Every Everyone's fine. Everyone can afford the the payment. They can afford the car loans. Everything's fine until

there's a job loss. >> Until a kid gets sick. Until whatever life happens and you've built your life on risk and it all comes tumbling down.

So, Joseph, I'm excited for you. I feel a lot of work in Joseph's future and I >> I can't wait. And I really think, Joseph, you can get out of this. Yeah, Joseph, here's the truth.

When I was your age, I was $40,000 in consumer debt and I wasn't even making 45 grand like you are. And I got out. And the way I did it was by cutting my expenses down to nothing and working two or three extra jobs. And then all that margin I created by doing that, I threw only at my smallest debt.

The rest you're going to make minimum payments. That's called the debt snowball method.

So, hang on the line. I'm going to give you That's the one thing it does is it helps you create margin to throw at your debt.

But you've got to actually do it. You've got to look at that budget every day cuz that's going to be your ticket to saying no to the next thing that's going to be happening to you that you had to do.

Hey, Joseph, call us back though. We're cheering you on. If you need help through this process, we are here cuz we I really do believe in 2 years your life could look so different financially. >> to be a success story. Hang on the line. We're going to get you EveryDollar and a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke. That'll give you the road map to getting out of this thing.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Marie is in Columbus, Ohio up next.

Marie, how can we help today?

>> [music] >> Um hi. Um and thank you for taking my call. Um I started listening to you guys in 2020 and by that time I think I was in a bad situation by then.

Um my current live-in boyfriend um who

I plan to serve a 30-day notice to very soon. Um he ran up two of my credit cards and I following the baby steps and I paid everything off except for those two credit cards and it was actually the baby steps who that helped me realize that those two cards have been run up.

I didn't realize it at the time.

Um and I guess I'm just looking for

I guess a way through to figure out

um if there's a if there's a possibility for me to recoup my money back. Yeah.

So, he >> for the paying for it cuz it's on my credit. >> Yeah. Well, was he an authorized user on your card? How did he get access?

Um he was not an authorized user on my card. Um so at the time still we're living together and um we had a mosquito, tick, flea service that he was we were supposed to be paying for.

Um they said they wanted to do like the automatic um they wanted to charge us automatically and I was at home at the time and so I used my credit card and gave it to them and he said you know, don't worry about it. I'll pay for the service. And so that's how it

started. >> So, he grabbed your credit card while he was at home? Saw it on a table? What happened? >> No, I gave it to them. >> You did it. Okay. With the promise that he was going to pay it back.

Yeah, he and they were being charged on the card every month. It's a monthly recurring charge and then he would you know Pay for it. That was part of one of his bills. He was part of the household.

But then what happened? He you said he ran it up.

Well, yeah, I didn't realize he had run it up because I um he was just supposed to be paying that recurring charge.

Um and then at the it was in 2023 that I

realized that this card had like a really big balance on it and I was like, "Hey, what are you doing?" And I said and I noticed like your payments aren't covering the charges and he told me "Don't worry about it. I got it. I've been paying it.

I'm going to keep paying it." And he said, you know, like we haven't done this before. >> That was 3 years ago. So, what happened since then with the balance?

It it continued to balloon it continued to balloon and >> the credit card statement say?

Is it all this one company on this credit card?

This particular what? Yes. Um he actually ended up doing it to two, but what I was on my radar was this one credit card, one company. Okay. Well, if it truly was without your knowledge, it was an authorized use, that's fraud. And you can call your credit card company to >> the card to the company.

Well Do you know what I mean from a legal perspective? She Yeah, she >> other things on this outside of that flea and tick service? >> I'm wondering. Is he buying other stuff?

>> Yes, that's what and that's what I didn't realize. So, he was supposed to be paying the recurring charges for the flea and tick company. But then I started looking in there when I find noticed that the credit card balance had gone up and then he started using I saw he was using the card to pay for our car insurance.

Um you know, like $700 to pay for the

car insurance >> own car insurance? For yours or his or both? Ours cuz we were in the house together and he had two cars on the insurance. I had one car on the insurance. The insurance was another bill he was supposed to pay.

I did not know he used my card to pay the insurance.

And then I started seeing other transactions for like Advance Auto Parts and car parts this and car parts that.

>> Okay. And yeah. Marie, I have a question. random other stuff.

>> For the credit card statement every month, where was that being mailed to or sent to?

You? >> being mailed to our address, our home. And you just didn't see it or he would take the bill and you never saw the bill.

I never saw the bill. He would take the bill because he was supposed to be paying it for the Green Nuts company.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And so I just didn't I didn't think anything of it that he was taking the bill because he was supposed to be paying it. >> this, Marie, so some of this from a legal perspective, George, correct me, but some of this if it really was without your knowledge, I think you can flag that as fraud. But Marie, if you willingly gave your credit card over and you just have a crappy boyfriend who's not paying it, that's more on you guys.

That's not a legal standing. >> Especially after 3 years and all of a sudden you're calling the credit card company and saying, "Hey, there's some fraudulent charges here from 3 years ago." Yeah, I didn't call the credit card company and say there were fraudulent charges. I noticed that

I didn't tell say that. Mhm. Um I went to him and said, "Hey, what are you doing? Like you're supposed to be paying these bills." Have you called and put a freeze on that I'm sorry. Have you called and um put a freeze on anything on your credit or this account or for more money not to be taken out?

Well, by that time I had um so what ended up happening is um I told it what ended up happening is he just stopped paying the bill.

Just period. >> Okay. And I said "Why aren't you making the payment?" He said, "I'm sorry. I missed the payment." And he was going off of the fact that we had done this before. I I haven't just met the man. I've known him for a very long time >> Sure. He's used the my credit card to do other

things like buy tires and he paid the bill and we just kept moving. It had

never been an issue. Okay. So, from this from today where we stand, Marie, how much is on the card balance?

As of right now, the card balance is $8,100, but that's because I paid it down. Yes.

Okay. >> it was $10,900.

And are you guys broken up? What's the what's the status of the relationship?

I don't consider myself to be in a relationship with him anymore and I plan to send him with an eviction notice pretty soon because What do you mean you don't consider it? Are you guys broken up or not?

Um It's not like a feeling. Well, I don't consider you know, I don't identify as a single person. It's just did you guys break up or did you not?

I have broken up. He keeps saying he's in a relationship and I can't change his mind. Who's he saying it to? Yeah, yeah, so okay. So, yeah, so you're you're done. He's he's in denial.

He's in denial. Okay. Is his name on the lease?

I own the home. Okay. So, there's no lease. I own the home and he won't leave. >> Yeah, so that needs to be a sheriff when they do show up and evict him, correct?

Cuz this has gotten so entangled.

>> proceedings. >> Yes, from a um from a financial perspective, so entangled. And this is what happens when people commingle finances when you're not married. You have no legal protection, really, um What? on your end. >> that in 2020 once I started listening to you guys. >> Yes, so I'm so sorry. So

>> Okay, so you got $8,000 left. So Marie, we got to figure out is that the only debt you have is this card?

Um he did the same similar thing to a

Lowe's card. I didn't Now that card I didn't know he was using that at all.

Okay, how much is on that? >> And um the current balance is now $4,900,

but he had ran it up to like $5,600.

>> Okay. And outside of those two bills, I have no other balances because I started with your debt snowball >> Oh, yes, you said that. Okay, perfect. Okay. So what I would do is I would become I would investigate as much as I can calling these two credit card companies and in good standing of faith

with what you can say honestly, yes, these were charges I did not know about.

You probably can't say about about the flea tick company because you willingly gave over your credit card and he just never paid you back and that's between you guys. But from a legal standpoint, here are charges that I did not know about and I would try. I would see what you know see if they'll reverse it. Yeah, if they can reverse any of it.

Um I don't know if they will cuz it's been so many years, but it would be amazing if not. And then if it doesn't, Marie, it's I mean yeah, this gets chalked up to $12,000 of stupid tax as what we call it of just like a really hard lesson, which is so frustrating for you.

uh not fun lesson to learn if you know what I mean if this is the bills that you have to end up paying cuz it's all in your name. Um but I would cut off any

any access of any accounts

from him and making sure he has no access to you financially. Um and yeah. And I would go on to every credit bureau's website, TransUnion, Equifax, all of them and freeze your credit completely so that nobody can open up any accounts in your name.

He didn't do it to any other card.

Just those two and he hasn't done it and it just after >> care. >> As far as you know I don't trust him.

I've already checked. No, he hasn't done it >> freeze your credit. >> Freeze your credit. Do not No, I don't trust him. >> [music] >> You know what he would do when he gets pissed that you evict him. I mean uh-uh, nope. I am >> closing down every credit card account.

You can still pay it off after that, but close them down, freeze your credit, and get this guy out of your life and then clean up the debt yourself. This is not going to be fun, but it'll be a a lesson well learned. You'll never do this one again.

No, I won't.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] studio.

I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

So Rachel, we recently just took a call from a lady who was going through a hard time because she's had this sort of toxic relationship. The ex is living in her house who she now has to evict. He's been using her credit cards with and without her knowledge, running up 13 grand in credit card debt. And it just was a great reminder of why we tell people to not combine your life and your money before marriage.

>> Cuz some of it it wasn't outrageous stuff, right? It was like our car insurances. We're just going to pay them together, right?

and it ends up costing you a lot of money. That's what we end up finding over and over again cuz usually the person that is the financial responsible one ends up getting the bad end of the deal, right? It's usually the one that's not great with money ends up kind of mooching or figuring out how to like not necessarily know Yeah, I don't think they're always malicious by doing that. It's just the way it happens.

Uh and when you're not married, yeah, there's no protection for you. >> Oof. And what's funny is we get a lot of flack for our advice that you should combine finances once you're married.

Yes, and they all get so angry at that.

They want to combine when they're not, but once they're married, they want to stay independent. >> Yes, I I'm like, "Okay, so let's stay codependent while we're not married and once we're married, we want to be independent." >> Right. That is insanity. Yep, crazy.

So >> So aside from any of like your your faith background and some moral judgment on living together, it is just a really bad idea to combine your financial life, to cosign, to add someone as an authorized user, or to buy a house with someone.

Not good. Not good. So much risk, so much drama, and you're assuming everything works out perfectly and this show would not exist if everything always worked out perfectly. >> We wouldn't have jobs without this. >> Or on the other side of it when they go, "Well, I could handle the payment until I couldn't. Well, everything was great until I found out he was Yeah, and honestly, it just adds to

um I think more of the heartbreak because not only when when you break up and you got to untangle everything, not only is it just your heart's broken, right? If or the situation is really sad cuz you've been you were obviously very close to that significant other to share finances. And when they when you break up, if you break up, um not only are you dealing with like the heartache of just the breakup, but then you're sitting there trying to pull your credit report, right?

>> and guilt and resentment and why did I waste so many years with that person and tried so hard all to leave with this

mess that I have to clean up. It just sort of makes you look in hindsight to realize how messy it was and how you didn't see it. You were too close to it.

That's right. So clearly, you guys, do not combine your finances until you are married. And when you are married, yes,

we are a proponent of combining your finances, sharing a checking account when both incomes or one income hits the household. That is the household budget. We both have a say in it when we're married. We both have opinions.

We both are able to agree on this is what we're what we're doing with our money cuz when you do that, you agree on your life at that point and where you're going. Now, there's always the asterisk if there is um if the if there is a divorce coming, if there is abuse, addiction. Like there are situations that you have to protect yourself 100%.

>> Yes, yes, that's right. >> Protect yourself from this person.

>> Yep, that's right. Um but for all the other marriages in the in the world that are just going along, I'm telling you, combine your combine your finances. Be one in that and it creates so much unity. >> Yeah.

And the other thing is you notice she wasn't paying attention. She wasn't checking the credit card statement. She was assuming that he was telling the truth. And so you've got to stay on top of this.

Your money is your responsibility and nobody else's. So don't ever assume that they've got it under control.

So there's our soapbox. We are now stepping off. Although I liked I liked the the height boost it gave me, but you know. Thanks for listening to our TED Talk. >> Back down to earth. All right, Karen is in Toledo up next. Karen, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. What's going on?

Um so my husband and I can't decide if we can afford a new vehicle or a new to

us vehicle um for 30 to 40,000 dollars

um just with our other expenses, um our mortgage, and potential other uh expenses with our 100-year-old home as well.

All right. Walk us through this. How much money do you guys have right now saved up?

So we have about 120 in our savings.

Awesome. And you guys have any debt?

Um we have our mortgage, but no other debt. Okay. And how what's your household income?

Um so I just went part-time, so it was 180, now it's going to be about 160.

That's still a great income. Okay. So what's the what's the argument about?

This sounds all reasonable. You're going to pay cash. It's not a huge part of your world. Are you going to buy it used or brand new?

Um well, I previously would have bought it new, but since being married, we're probably going to get a new to us, but maybe a year or two, maybe three years old. Okay. And your is your husband not wanting to do this or you?

Um so my husband does not want to buy a vehicle. I do want to buy a vehicle just because I think we need the space. We have two small old cars. We have a 2017

and a 2014 car.

So um Space for kids or what?

Um we do have a new baby and then we also have a large dog. So, yes. Okay.

So, new baby, large dog, you want more space, and he thinks it's a waste of money? Um, so he thinks that >> part of of spending that much money, or is it the idea that you guys don't need a car at all?

Um, so he agrees we do need a car, but it's the financial aspect of it just because we live in a 100-year-old house.

Um, we we're living on borrowed time with our AC furnace units, um, potentially a new roof, potentially a new sewer pipe. I mean, all of this is all functioning now, but it's just kind of we're on borrowed time for all these very expensive items. >> add it up if everything hit the fan and everything went out at the exact same time, what would that cost you guys?

So, the sewer is probably about 15. Um, AC furnace, I would have to say probably about 68,000.

Um, and for a roof, we don't know the roof.

We haven't looked into quotes cuz it's working well now. That's probably in the next couple of years or so. Okay. Um, Cuz I'm just doing some quick math that if you guys have 120 saved, if you had an emergency fund of 40,000, if that was a fully funded emergency fund for you guys, I'm not sure what your household expenses are per month, but that would be a hefty good emergency fund.

Um, you'd have 80,000 left. Let's say you spent half of that on a car, you'd have 40,000 left. And if everything hit the fan, I think you'd still have enough to cover all of that, right?

Uh, yes, but that's very scary to think about. And then, plus we just didn't know with having a mortgage, we still have about 130,000 to owe on that, if

that's something we should be prioritizing over purchasing a car.

>> Um, yeah, I mean, buying [clears throat] a new car is totally acceptable in baby steps four, five, and six, which is where you guys are. Your life is a priority. And so, if you need the car for your life, because your lifestyle, you guys are doing it right. And I think having $60,000 still left over after covering the car and the emergencies, you're going to knock out the house fast, knowing you guys.

You're going to just start throwing chunking money away at that thing after the renovations are done, repairs, the car is here. Now you've sort of freed up all of that savings and money, right? Your future income? Right.

That that is very true.

>> I hear you, but you would have enough still in savings to cover those things, and they have not happened yet. And more than likely, they'll be staggered staggered while you can be saving money on top of that. So, it's not like your savings completely stops after you buy this car. Pick it back up and save some more if you guys want.

And then, if you have too much in savings, you throw some at the house, right? And keep And I'll I'll earmark each savings account. One is for the car, one is for the house stuff.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> John is in Richmond, Virginia up next.

John, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, guys. Absolutely.

What's your question today? Got a I've got I feel like I've hit the job lottery. Um, kind of a specialist in my field, and and I recently

just got a humongous increase in income.

Um, my wife is also getting a raise starting in July. So, we're suddenly

we feel like we're kind of suddenly wealthy, but I'm kind of panicking because I don't know what to do, and I'm really behind on my retirement, and I'm I'm 48 years old almost, so kind of lost

as to what to do. I'm happy, but I'm nervous. Yeah, I know. That's actually [laughter] a good feeling, John. That tells me you're going to be very wise with this and cautious and actually use it to build wealth. If you were just like, "Yeah, I get double my income. We're going to go buy some stuff." I'd be like, "All right, we got to slow down." So, walk us through this. What is your household income now? What will it be?

Okay, so, um, it's going to be 330.

Fantastic. >> right. Yeah, it's I think I think we're

getting about 120 thousand between the both of us increase all of a sudden. So, are you both getting increases or just one of you?

Both of us. Are you both are? And it just happens to fall at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah, mine just my my new position just started. My wife starts in July, so, you know, Okay.

This is great. Congratulations, John.

Good for you guys. That's Where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt? What's that?

Um, well, we have our mortgage. We owe 214 on our house. Um, I we do have two used car loans, um,

that are fairly recent. And that's it.

That's it for debt. No credit card debt.

>> What's the balances on the cars?

Uh, combined at 24,000. Okay. How much do you guys have in savings right now?

Uh, 22,000.

Okay. Is that just liquid or is that retirement?

It's liquid. Okay. And then, how >> My retirement My retirement is very low.

My retirement's like 40 5,000 dollars.

>> 45, okay. What's your wife's? Yeah.

Uh, she's her retirement's at like 340,000 or so. Okay, so hers is Okay,

hers is more.

Yeah. Okay, great. So, um, yeah, so I would make a plan to

probably feel like you didn't get a raise for a hot second once it starts,

uh, to get these cars paid off. So, pay off the 24,000. And honestly, you could do it with the next paycheck.

If you take your next paycheck plus most of the savings, these car loans are knocked out, and now you free up those payments for the rest of your life.

Yeah, that's right. And And the cars are fairly new, even though they're used, so I think they'll be fine, but yeah, so so we have like like basically that leaves us with the little bit we have in our checking account, and that drains our savings {slash} emergency fund, so Yep, so then you'll bring it back Yeah, then you'll bring it back up with the new income.

Um, and have a good fully funded emergency fund. And all this hits in July. We're what? It's almost May. So, that's 2 months. Yeah, so I would I would throw all I would throw your savings at this car. Uh, you'll have a little bit left on it on one of them.

Um, and keep a thousand dollars in there. And go ahead and pay everything off. And then, once July hits, you guys start really stocking away some money for a fully funded emergency fund. And then, beyond that, John, you just go down the baby steps. You guys need to invest 15% of your income into retirement. Throw all the extra you can

at the house, okay? Um, and have some

fun in there, too, right? If you guys want to take a trip or something, that's okay. Um, but have an aggressive goal to pay off this house. I mean, if you guys said, "Hey, what if we did this in 2 years?" Right?

your Roth's and your 401k, even. So, >> you guys 15% of 330 is almost 50 grand.

So, that's over 4 grand a month you guys are going to be putting away, and that's without any employer match.

So, I did the math for you, John. >> My My company won't start letting me have a

retirement for a year, and my job just now started. So, I'm kind of like, well, well, do I start like Do I talk to a financial advisor, get money Well, you can still You can still do a backdoor Roth IRA. Yeah, I would do the Roth. And then, I would just put some money Um, yeah, I would sit down with a financial advisor.

I'd probably open up like an index fund or something and just throw some money in investing.

being invested. Okay.

And then, and then once the 401k is available next year, then maybe, you know, turn down the the index fund and put put it the rest in the 401k, cuz you'll have great tax benefits with that. But even in the meantime, I mean, 15 grand would fully fund two backdoor Roth IRAs for you and your spouse.

Right. So, you still have options even before you can contribute to the employer plan. So, let's walk through this real quick for you, John. How much money would you free up? How much could you throw if you didn't have those car payments? How much could you set aside every month in savings?

With the new income?

With the new income. >> a daughter that's I have a daughter that's starting college. My new income is 330,000.

Um, the college expects us to pay, uh, about 30,000 a year, uh, for my daughter. And we're not we don't want to take out loans for it. We want to pay it. So, my bills are my bills are going to be like 12,000 um, a month on average

with all that That's without the car payments or with?

That's that's without car payments.

Okay.

Great, but you're still going to be taking home like 20k a month.

Yes. Okay, so you still have eight grand to put away when all said and done if you do it right.

Are we taking home eight grand? How much are we taking home a month because I have like my 20k a month is 240. So if you're making 330 after your after-tax income My after-tax income is going to be about 16,800 per month, I think. And that's without your wife?

That's with my wife. Okay, that feels low I'm a W-2 employee. I'm a W-2 employee and my I mean federal taxes,

state, social security, all that stuff is like 75 a year off my two 225 that

I'm making, so I will be making, so Yeah, but you're not paying 130 grand a year in that out of your 330. That's what it amounts to is you're taking home 200.

So I would look into that. It's about 60% it might be a little bit more after all of your deductions, 401k, all of that stuff is hitting, but either way you're going to have some margin of four to five grand a month to sock away, which means your emergency fund is going to get built up quick, then we'll be investing 15%. So let's even say you're 49 and you start investing that four a little over four grand a month between you and your wife's retirement is sort of the base nest egg. If you just do that from 49 to 62, you guys would have about 2.7 million dollars at 62.

All right, when you're 62. I don't know how old she is.

Is that a fair assumption? She's a year older than me. Oh, wow.

Went for the older lady, John. So she's 63, you're 62, you got 2.7 million. And then you guys can decide do we want to keep working or not? You probably will have the option by then. And with a paid-off house at that point.

>> without you increasing investing or making more money, which at this point you guys are only going to make more money in your careers if you keep this up.

Yeah, okay. So I hope that's encouraging to you. If you do this right you stay out of debt, pay off the mortgage, follow these baby steps, you guys will be just fine.

>> that frees up money in four years, you know what I mean? That's what you do.

That'll free up a lot of money. >> That's like 2,500 a month.

You can go on vacation every month, John. Yeah, >> [laughter] >> sounds good, George.

You're doing great. Don't beat yourself up, John, for the past. You guys are crushing it. And yeah, and the caution is is is very fair because as you run the numbers um you know, you're looking it's like yeah, it's not a million bucks. You know what I mean? Like it goes fast if you're not careful. That's why we get people that make 300,000 and they're still living paycheck to paycheck, right? It's like that's what ends up happening. So the intentionality is key.

I think writing out the numbers, you and your wife seeing it, I think having a great financial planner on board especially with some of this retirement stuff that's going to be picking up is really wise. And yeah, I think if you guys just plan it out month to month you're just you know, you have that level of intentionality, have a goal for paying off the house, all of that lined up. You're going to do great. You really will.

Great, thanks. Awesome, you got this, man. Thanks, John, for the call. >> Love a call like that. That's a fun problem to have. >> Our income doubled and I want to be wise with it. Yes. >> And the truth is, I mean 214,000 left in the mortgage, if they just take the daughter's college money when she's done, they just throw that at the mortgage Right, right, right.

>> plus some of the extra margin they have, they're done in a couple years. So before they're 60 they're going to have a paid-for house, maxing out retirement accounts, millionaires.

>> aggressive, I said two years. That was too aggressive. >> I love that spirit. Why why >> [laughter] >> not go big, right?

Rachel goes big and she goes home.

She does it all.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

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But you get to hang out with Dave and all of us Ramsey personalities for seven days, hear new teachings on wealth building, join the world's largest debt-free scream, watch live episodes of your favorite shows on stage, and so many more surprises. Who knows?

>> It's so fun. It's a fun week. Yeah, I mean ever since the last one I was like I was kind of riding a camp high after.

Like that was something special. I know it was. It was such a great week.

>> the people working on the cruise were like who are these people? They're all so kind. >> kept saying that. They're like this is the nicest like week of people we've ever had, yeah. And there's no strangers cuz they all have you have like-minded people all in one place. >> Well, not to make anyone uncomfortable, but everyone's like yeah, that we stand in line for the buffet and like how much debt have you paid off, you know? And they just >> Yes. Talk [laughter] about things that you would never ever probably share.

Uh but a place to celebrate and get to go to Caribbean. It's going to be fun. >> Not mad about it. >> to be fun. All right, click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.com/events to book your cabin. Hopefully we'll see you in 2027.

Iris is in Bismarck, North Dakota.

What's going on, Iris?

Hi, George and Rachel. How are you guys?

Doing well. How can we help today?

Okay, so I'm in quite a bit of debt and

I actually started going through the baby steps at the beginning of the year.

Started like going full like full

intensity about two months ago. Already paid off

about $5,000. Awesome, great. And my

boss my boss offered to lend me the money that I need

to pay off the rest of my debt and just pay him without interest.

Mhm. Lend you the money. How much is

this? E Um so I have $41,805 left to pay off.

Oof. And this is so credit card 9,373

I have 6,573

I owe to the IRS and a nasty personal loan with OneMain

Financial for $25,859.

Okay.

Um no, I would not do that, Iris. I know

it sounds sounds good because you don't have to pay interest and all of that, but suddenly now you are tied to your boss as as a bank basically.

Um and any miss payments, anything that happens in your life, any I mean anything

that is going to be happening he's going to be just there, right? From like an emotional financial um perspective. And so keeping things clean and just saying hey keeping the creditors the creditors and keeping your boss the boss keeps a very healthy boundaries and keeps everyone in the lane they should be in. And when you start muddling those it can get messy really quick.

And the truth is interest the way you're attacking this thing isn't going to be the issue. Mhm, it's a good point. So the issue is the the behavior that got us here and you are actively transforming that and I think there's something really powerful about using that debt snowball method to knock out the next set, the next set, freeing up the payment. And if you just owe your boss one weird giant payment it's just kind of hit different and it's probably going to take longer.

You're probably going to get a little comfortable cuz you're like well, I'm saving on interest. I don't need to be that aggressive. He only said I needed to pay 500 a month.

And again, to Rachel's point it just adds a risk, it changes the relationship. I would much rather owe all these other people money than my own boss. Yep. Uh Iris, how much do you make a year? >> Yeah.

Um well, it varies. I work in a restaurant, so this year I made 54

before taxes. Okay. And I started doing some side hustles so I can pay off this debt. Good, good.

>> Hopefully by my goal is February of 2027.

Awesome. Oh, amazing. >> specific you've been. You knew your exact numbers on your debt, you have an exact debt pay-off date. That gives me a lot of encouragement and confidence. >> to go to, so I need to pay [laughter] this off. That's hilarious. What concert is it?

Um it's not Backstreet Boys. It's Karol

G. She was in Coachella this year and she's going to perform in Puerto Rico February 26th.

>> destination. How fun. Um Iris is the

boss at the restaurant that you work at.

Yes. >> Okay. So, I'll be honest, even more so why I wouldn't because that has that industry turns over so much. You could look up in 6 months and get a great paying job somewhere else.

But then you weirdly have this like loyalty to him because he like did this big favor for you. And and so I >> Or he leaves and goes to a different restaurant and now he's like, "Hey, I need all that money up front." Yeah.

Yeah. >> Well, he's he's the owner of the restaurant. The thing is I've been working with him forever. I've known this guy for 11 years and he's

seen me for 11 years and the thing is that he asked me, he's like, "Hey, Iris, like I've seen you be stuck. I mean, you know, why haven't you bought a home?

Just life things." And so that's why he asked why I haven't, you know, progressed in a way. Yeah, he seems like a great guy. His heart's probably in the exact right spot, right? I don't think there's any malice or anything. We just see these these situations go sideways. Like we do. When you start mingling relationships and money, especially when it comes to borrowing money.

Um it it just it changes the relationship and even though I think it the the heart of him is probably gold and it's probably great.

Um I just I would have the more conservative approach of keeping him my boss and not my banker. Like that's just basically, you know, at the end of the day. So, that's that's what we would do. That's what I would do.

George, I guess you can speak for yourself, but >> and the the more I'm thinking through this, I'm just going, "This just feels like I can count on zero fingers how many times someone's called into the show and said, 'Hey, I borrowed 40 grand from my boss and it worked out perfectly. Paid him back and everyone was happy and the relationship was great.'" It just doesn't happen. It's sort of a pie in the sky thought. And anytime you lend money to anybody that you know, it usually ends up changing the relationship for the worse.

Iris, like you are the secret sauce of getting yourself out of debt. It's not rearranging debt. It's not consolidating here or getting this lender there and all of this. People people shuffle their debt around, even if it's not their boss saying they'll pay it off, but like to get a better deal here with the interest, all of it.

But listen, at the end of the day, it's really not going to matter. It may save you a month or two, right?

Um and you're the secret to it all. It's you. Not trying to finagle the interest.

And so, um because of the risk of the relationship and your employment, all of it, um yep, keeping it safe.

>> And you're you're less than a year away according to your goal, right? >> Yes, so great.

Yes. >> So, less than 12 months. >> I'll call you guys back for the for the debt-free scream. >> Yeah, you will. And I hope you get to go to that concert. I'm not hip enough to know. I mean, I know Coachella. That's about And I have heard of Karol G cuz I know that it's it's a really hip I need to look her up. >> I'm so out of touch. Rachel and I only know music from like the early 2000s, so we never learned anything new and exciting. >> Oh, she's pretty.

So fun. Okay. >> about the music, okay? >> know. I'm I think it's great. >> But thank you for that. >> a give me a millennial boy band and I'm

there. >> And and dangle a carrot. I love that she has a thing that she wants to do that gives her a why. >> Yes, sure. I'm going to work an extra shift to pay it off. Yeah. >> doesn't have to be this really deep why of like, you know, childhood trauma that I'm running from. It could just be a fun concert and you go, "I want to feel like I earned it." >> That's my finish line up there. >> it on a payment plan.

>> Yep, that's my finish line. That's my finish >> at Disney, Rachel, and we did these street interviews. Can't wait for you to see the Disneyland version. Everyone I talked to, it was like an 18-year-old on a >> it? >> payment plan for the annual pass.

"It's only 130 bucks a month." That's what they tell me. And her mom's on the payment plan, too. So, they're doing this together. They're not paying it off. Just paying the monthly payment. >> Some generational debt to the old Mickey >> a family tradition now.

But it's funny how we we teach our kids that payments are okay as long as you can afford them. >> 100% 100% and just stupid financial

decisions we get ourselves in from time shares to car payments, all of that and it's like when it's so normalized, that's what your kids pick up. That that is how you do life. And [music] that's what ends up I think the the of being average, right? Of just being paycheck to paycheck, >> [music] >> barely have enough for retirement if that, but really having to depend on social security and you work your whole life for that for that ending.

And it's like, "No, you can get rid of all of that. Pay yourself instead of paying other people." And that >> very peaceful on the other side when you're in control. Humans are really good at one thing and that is justifying the things that they want even when they don't have the money.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Cesar is in Colorado Springs up next.

Cesar, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, George. How are you guys? We're doing great, man. What's going on with you?

Well, I'm in a little dilemma. I feel like I've been for like about a year now. Uh my question is

like what will get me closer to happiness, money or experiences?

You called the right show.

What do you think, Cesar? I think you know the answer.

Um I think so, but I like I know

experiences will, but I know like at my

age, I'm 21, so I feel like right now

everybody says there it's split. It's like everyone Some people say, "Oh, you're you should have go have fun." And some people say, "Oh, you should go work and make your money now and later have fun." And I'm like stuck in between those two.

Yeah, I don't think it has to be an either/or at this point for you.

I think there can be financial goals that can set you up to have a peaceful life because money does bring options and choices and instead of being stressed and living paycheck to paycheck, which will rob your happiness, um you know, you can set yourself up well and especially at a young age, yes, investing and all of that will will do that for you, Cesar. So, on one end of the spectrum, absolutely. But the other end, the lie that money at the end of the day is going to be the thing that fulfills you, that's a lie.

I mean, it doesn't. Even people that have a goal of like, "Oh, I want to get a million dollars." Once they get it, it's like, "Okay, it's still me, so I got to do something else, right?" That's it's not the There's like we always say, the finish line always moves. So, um So, yeah, I think it could be a both/and. I think you could enjoy your life and save some money and be wise with it.

And also no amount of experiences will cure you if there's something going on inside. And so I want to tell you that as a 21-year-old, I think that will free you to go, "There's not a single trip that's going to go, 'Well, that did it. I'm happy now.'" Like it's all ephemeral. It's all temporary. And so the key is what's going on in you, in Cesar, that's even stirring this up.

Yeah, well, like I feel like it's more like I'm on the lookout for the future cuz like right every every now and then I'm like, "Wow, like I'm happy right now

in life, you know?" Just I guess what like like a lot of young people it's like I want an exotic car or like I want a mansion one day, you know? And it's like I see like entrepreneurs go like don't like they work 7 days a week, 15-hour days for 10 years and they finally have it, but then they're like empty inside. And at the same time, I got I know people that just like have like a normal life and they go on vacations and and they they they invest a little

bit and later on they're like, "Oh, I wish, you know." I guess what my fear is

that I don't want to be limited by money

in my life to be able to like to live, you know, if that makes sense.

Uh yeah, I think so and I think it's just a mindset of what money is, where money's placed in your value system and how you see it.

So, if you worship money and you think it's the thing that is going to cure all, I think you're going to get to the end of your life and like [clears throat] you said, you're going to be you're not having anything to show for it from a relationship standpoint, right? Like nobody lays on their deathbed and they're like, "Man, I wish I had >> [clears throat] >> a little bit more in my 401k." Right?

They're asking for their family and their friends. Like like the things that money can't buy in life, I really do believe are the things that give us the most joy and where we can actually find levels of contentment. We put our time and energy into our families and into

our marriages and our friendships and our spiritual life and our health. Like these things are really um those are the

important things in life. Our friend Arthur Brooks talks about this though about how there's five things you can do with money. Four will actually bring happiness and one uh will not. Yes. And the one that will not, Cesar, is everything you listed out, which is stuff. That's the one thing that like from a chemical reaction in your brain, like like genuinely, scientifically, the stuff does not It will give you a momentary hit, dopamine hit, but it doesn't last. Yep.

So, the things that will give you happiness that he talks about is spending money on experiences, especially with people you love, buying your time back, that can bring happiness cuz you're not doing something you don't want to do, and you get to refocus that time, saving money and investing, that actually brings happiness to set up your future self for success, and then generosity. Making giving a habit in your life also brings you happiness. In fact, it's the most fun you can have with money. So, the sooner you not only learn that, but you believe it, and you act and it becomes a the habit in your life, the better your life is going to be.

And my friend Sahil Bloom wrote a book called The Five Types of Wealth, and he goes through relationships, family, social, your physical health, money, and work. Like, all of those things combined, if you're healthy in all of those areas, you're going to be a happy person. >> Mm. List those out again, George.

What are they?

social life, relationships, Friendships.

your physical health, >> Yes. your finances and money, and lastly, your work. >> My gosh, I just I basically did the book. I just rambled off some stuff, but that's the stuff money can't buy right there.

>> Like, if you have a miserable job, you're going to be a miserable person. If you are broke your whole life stressed, you're going to not going to be happy. If your health is in poor shape, all you care about is your health at that point.

And you find that people who have the big mansions, who don't have a lot of people in their life and family, they want to go get a small apartment somewhere that feels cozy cuz it just so lonely. It just amplifies the loneliness. So, all that to say, Caesar, you're on the right path that you're even asking this question. It's a good full circle moment.

>> not calling saying, "Hey, I want to buy a Lamborghini." You're calling saying, "Hey, I know the Lamborghini's not going to bring me that joy." And the last thing I'm going to throw in there is faith, Caesar.

That sermon hit you?

Yeah, I'm like a little speechless right now cuz I thought you guys were going to tell me something else, but yeah, I guess yeah, that I that makes a lot of

sense. And yeah, cuz like I just don't want to be like at the top of the hill and be like, "Oh, this is not what I wanted, you know?" And >> 100%. >> Can you do me a favor, Caesar?

Go ahead. Can I recommend a book to you if you promise me you'll read it? And I'm not even going to give it to you cuz you can access it for free right now like on your phone.

Perfect. Read the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible because this is a tale as old as time, and Solomon did it bigger and better than anyone else, and he has the best message for you at the end of it.

Okay. Have you heard of that book?

Yes. Okay. Great story. Richest man on earth had it all, and at the end he goes, "Everything is meaningless." >> George loves >> Spoiler alert.

>> George is such an Ecclesiastes >> I love an emo book of the Bible that's just like, "Yes, dude." Like, it's like a goth kid, you know what I mean? >> What are we doing? What are we doing with our lives? >> is like I have this existential crisis, you know, once a week where I go What are we doing?

>> I know. When you just pan back, you go, "Okay, what really is meaningful in life?" >> I liked the book Die With Zero. Not that I agreed with everything in it, but you're like, "Okay, what are we doing?" Like, you know what I mean? When you get to a point financially, which I get, all of you listening, you'll everyone is at a different place financially, but you know, if if or when you get to that place of like, "Okay, um you know, we've done it all.

What am I doing? Am I just like stockpiling money, and then when I die in my 80s or 90s, my 60-year-old kids just get everything? Like, is that is that it?" And it's like, "No, live the live life now." Like >> Yes. >> And again, you have to set yourself up well to do that.

So, I'm not saying go into debt or spend everything every single month cuz no, that is from a biblical perspective, that's going to cause stress.

But um but getting to a point of like, "Okay, if you work hard and you're smart with money, and yes, and you're in your you know, Mom and Dad, I think they're a great example of this. They're in Argentina right now. They were texting texting me waterfalls, waterfalls, and I'm like, "Well, where's Dave in front of another waterfall?" Uh but you know what I mean? But it's like, enjoy it.

And then they like love our family so well, and they you know, they take take us all on a trip every year, and it's like some of the best times. So, it's like spend some of your money like yes, when you have it, spend some of it and enjoy it. And then the other part is the generosity part, George, which is exac- you're exactly right.

and the ability to reach into someone's situation and completely change their life, like that is wild. And you know what? Like a $8,000 car for a single mom sometimes will do that or a $10,000 car. And you can just pay for it, and you just give it to her, and that's it, right?

>> That's it. In my book, I say I talk about money so we can stop talking about money. Yes. >> it become the tool that funds the rest of the things. >> That's right. Um and then ask yourself this question, and then what? Well, I I brought up this one from Galatians cuz this is this is really it for me. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That to me is the goal.

That's why we get our money right so that we can focus on have peace and joy >> joy and peace and love and all the things that are on T.J. Maxx stitch pillows. That's what's That's what it's about, Caesar. So, I appreciate the call. It launched a a good sermon for Rachel and I.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze.

The number to call is 888-825-5225

if you want to join the conversation. If not, just keep listening. You'll have a good time. Joseph is in New York City up next. Welcome to the show, Joseph.

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. >> Um Yeah, so I my issue that I'm trying to sort through right now is my daughter is heading off to college this year.

Um I do have two other kids to follow behind her about 4 years apart, which is a a good thing.

Um I have a lot of debt, about $200,000 worth of credit card debt and uh loans

with personal loans and HELOC that does not include the mortgage of about um you know, I pay about $4,400 a month there.

So, you know, the the issue that I'm having is that I make too much money that we don't get any financial aid. We

were fortunate enough that we got some merit aid. Uh my daughter's going to be going to an SEC school, and um they're giving us like in-state tuition, so that helps a lot, but we're still going to be left with about 30-some thousand dollars

after the fact. So, I'm stuck with the question, do I try to pay that in cash

because I I can work extra that I could

probably do that. Do I take uh the

$20,000 person parent plus loan out and

make that put that extra money towards the debt that I have? I just I just don't know which way I go. Um my wife and I are you know, we we not that we fight about it, but we argue about you know, what the heck we're going to do because we totally miscalculated, and

we were just um just didn't know

we didn't know anything about college paying for college. I I was still living in the 80s and 90s, and um things have

changed since then. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah, the affordability of college um is is tough. So, we you know, we find that you know, we we are not a um proponent of any kind of debt, Joseph. So, no, we will say no to the parent plus loan, and we're about going to a school that um that everyone can afford, and it sounds like you guys can't afford this college.

Right.

So, that puts a awkward conversation in

the air uh with the 18-year-old cuz it's May, and I'm sure the acceptance has already happened, and the plans have already started rolling, but the truth is if you guys don't have the money to pay for this, you don't have the money to pay for it. So, either your son or daughter who's going off to college works and finds a job and has a

different looking college life than just sorority houses and frat parties and football games. Um and you know, he or she will be working, and or they can't go to that school. At least not right now.

Have they already like Have they have it in their heads they're going to this school? Yeah, it's May. >> How far are we? Yeah, we we we already uh we already committed. Got the T-shirt and everything. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's talk through this. How much money do you guys make a year?

Uh combined [clears throat] income about $320,000. Okay, so help me understand

how a family making $340,000 is $200,000 in consumer debt. What

happened? So, we have

um uh a lot of credit cards. Um

you know, we have I took a HELOC loan out uh probably about 5 or 6 years ago.

There's about $50,000 on that.

Um we had a roof leak. There was about $20,000 on that.

>> But what was what was happening to the actual income you had coming in? Cuz this is all outside of your, you know, 15 or 20 grand take home every month.

Sure. Where was that going? Um just a lot of credit card misspending, bad bad

bad decisions. Bad decisions. Um yeah,

um Yeah, that when we bought our first home, uh we were which again, I I'm financially illiterate, and I will take the full blame on that. When we uh when we bought our first um when we We our first home, um our agent set us up with this financial person and then we were making the minimum payment at the time, but I didn't realize that despite me making the minimum payment, which I thought was satisfying everything, it was borrowing against the principal of the mortgage and my principal was actually going up. So, that put us in a hole there.

But, we have since sold that house and have moved on. Um, I knew we couldn't afford the house that we lived in we had a couple friends uh family that actually family to to front us some money so we could get the house. Right now our mortgage is about 4,400. And what's your take home pay every month?

>> [clears throat] >> So, my wife is about 6,000 this is take

home after taxes. My wife is about 6,000.

I'm about eight nine roughly about

10,000. That's before before overtime

and extra shifts. Okay. I can work pretty much as many extra shifts as I can and after taxes I get about a

thousand dollars per shift. Okay. After taxes. Cool.

Well, the math should be pretty clear here on how we're going to cash flow this and if that means it slows down your debt payoff a little bit to get her through this first year and buy you guys some time, that's what I would do. Cuz I do think it's a great goal for her to go to school debt free, but I think she needs to have some skin in the game versus dad just working his tail off so she can go enjoy the the frat parties and the sorority parties. So, that would be the game plan and then the long term we need to clean up the $200,000 of debt using the debt snowball.

So, attacking the smallest one first.

Yes, definitely. >> What's coming out of the bank account every month?

Uh, mortgage Well, I mean is it more than 16k or is there any money left over?

No, no. There's um I I would say you know, I I was doing rough estimates over the last week or two. I would say it's roughly about the like 14 15,000 that's coming out. Okay. And and and besides

the Cuz you said 4,000 is the mortgage.

Right. Right. So, you got 12,000 left.

How much are all the payments on all the debt, the credit cards and everything?

Um Let me see. We have I just paid a car off. We have two cars that are about $700 total between the

two. The HELOC is about um

five $500 a month.

Um, the credit cards are

Um, it's several thousand. It's couple thousand a month. >> Mhm.

You know, it's like 30% interest which is killing me.

Uh, I'm trying to think Okay. Yeah, well I mean I'm at 7,000 right now. I mean it's just to the point yes that these are and these things I don't we don't want you to get behind on.

Um, so yeah. So, Joseph I mean I would sit down tonight and we'll give you every dollar our budgeting app will give you a year subscription to it because I would I would want if I were you you and your wife to sit down and list out everything that we spend money on in the month.

And what and my my hope is and my sense is that you guys are going to look up and be like, "Oh crap, three to four thousand dollars is just getting blown on subscriptions and out to eat and just whatever we whatever the flip we want to do and all of that has to be tightened up to not only pay off this debt, but if you guys are serious about this college of of starting to save to cash flow >> [music] >> and have to make payments for this college forward payments not back payments of debt.

And so, getting on a really strict budget Joseph I mean even looking at selling some of these cars if you want like whatever you can do to get out of this as fast as possible is what you need to do. Yeah, I would not turn to any more debt. That's what's got us here it's not going to get us out. So, no more parent plus loans, no more just kind of phoning it in.

You guys make too much to be this broke. >> Cut up the credit cards.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

Plus you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought [music] to you by WhyRefi. If you've lost control of your private student payments, your financial progress has stalled out. But, WhyRefi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. Learn more at whyrefi.com/ramsey.

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Today's question comes from Susie in Washington. I recently paid off my Tesla.

Love that. As two Tesla drivers we appreciate that.

Uh, and have $20,000 in credit card debt. Should I take a loan against my 401k to knock out that debt?

Not in a thousand years.

No, no, no. You You paid off the Tesla.

Use the same intensity and get rid of the credit card debt.

The problem with this loan against the 401k is there's multiple reasons. Number one, you are unplugging all of that compound growth that was happening. >> Yes. So, that $10,000 loan you took out against your 401k is now not growing for you.

On top of that you're basically double taxed on it cuz you likely paid taxes to put the money in and now you're going to pay taxes as you pay it back in while paying interest on it. So, uh no. I would not do this 401k loan and it also puts you at risk with your employer and we've gotten this call recently of I got laid off, I got fired and now the entire loan is due within 30 days or else it gets counted as an early withdrawal which then gets IRS penalties. >> That's right.

And if you don't have the money it's just gone then.

And it doesn't change the behavior that got you here. It feels like a little shortcut. Robbing your future self.

>> say to never cash out retirement. That's 401ks, Roth IRAs, traditional IRAs

unless you are facing a bankruptcy or foreclosure. So, we are not pulling it out to pay the house off early. We are not pulling it out to uh pay off consumer debt. So, none of that. So, we >> No withdrawals, no loans. That's right.

None of it. Yep. Just pay it off with your future income, with your savings, with your gazelle intensity, with extra jobs. >> it. Susie's on it. Yeah. Paying off >> know how much that Tesla was and what the loan was, but if you can knock that out. >> Yeah. Hopefully it freed up a couple hundred bucks in the payment and throw that at the credit cards. Love it.

Thanks for the question Susie. All right, Azalea is in Raleigh up next.

What's going on Azalea?

Hi. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help? Uh, so I So, I want to know if it's a smart idea for um my husband and I to invest in his

business uh or or should we pay off all of our debt first? Um, we have about uh

I forgot about his 401k. I was just listening to whatever was going on in on the phone, but I we have about $15,000 that he a a loan that he took out of his 401k that we need to pay back and about 25,000-ish dollars in credit card debt. We don't have any car payments and our um household income is around 200,000 a year um and he

his business is growing and he wants to invest a a trailer a dump trailer and a

and a new truck that the van he has is so old it just it can't do the work that he needs reliably.

Uh, so with the truck and the dump trailer it would be a total of about $70,000.

Um but that would immediately he would be making around $2,000 um a month extra immediately um with the

work that he would be doing.

Okay. So, he wouldn't recoup that until

>> years to break even. >> three to yeah. And it And you guys would have to go into debt for this.

Yes. We have zero We We don't have any

savings at all like cash. What we do have um assets, but we don't want to like touch that. >> What do you mean assets? So, we Uh, so we have land. We own land out uh we bought that cash and we have gold.

Um, the we have a total of that at those assets is around $90,000. How much is the gold?

Uh, about 50.

What are you hanging on to that for?

Is this like apocalypse? Uh Uh, yeah. Yes, like rainy day.

Uh, you never know what's going to happen. We just want to be able to >> than a rainy day like the like the world ends kind of thing. Yeah, that's a little bit more than rainy. A rainy day is like we'll get it HVAC goes out, but you're not going to pay an HVAC guy in gold.

>> [laughter] >> I'm sure he'd take it. Well, So it's just for us it's just it's just a question that we feel comfortable with. God forbid something really bad were to happen, we feel like we have that to like you know, it'd be easier to grab a piece of gold and trade versus like selling land. >> Food?

What about money?

Yeah, so well with all of that being said, we don't know what to do if we should just pay off our debts completely or if we should invest. No, you should not invest. No, because the return is opposite. If you said I need a I need

to get a 2,000 which we had this call I think earlier this week or last week.

I get I need $2,000 to get a new license

for my for my career and I'm going to make 5,000 more a month because of it and it's like done. >> That's different and you're paying cash.

>> This is $70,000 of debt to make 2,000

more. Even if you had the cash I would [laughter] say this probably isn't worth it. >> at night and make $2,000 more.

Okay. So no. No, no, no, yeah. So pay off the debt smallest to largest balances.

So the small >> I'm telling you I would and you're not going to do it. I take that gold and I'd pay off your pay off your debt. You guys will be debt-free. You'll have some cash from that and then use that to slowly save up to invest in his business for his for for like the truck like [clears throat] one one thing or the other, right?

Um because I do want him to be able to grow his business but we got to do it at the speed of cash and not at the detriment of slowing down getting out of consumer debt.

So his his main job thankfully it's he

works from home and he has a lot of flexibility which is why he's able to run his business. His main job pays him about 110 and then he makes around 40 to 50,000 with his business.

So that's that's that's that. And then you make another 40 or 50? >> Yeah, and the rest Yeah, I'm a home baker. So I make money from home. I'm home with my kids. I home school them. Okay. So yeah.

>> an extra 50 to 60. So from a from a business perspective, I would have which

I'm sure you guys do, you know, his own business account with that and then I would break out. Yes, how what's the cheapest truck I can get? Not a new nice truck. Like what's the cheapest truck I can get to do what I need to do. Make that you know, that goal number one.

After you guys have paid off debt and have an emergency fund. >> Yeah, and then the and then the you know, what what was it? It was the truck and a what? Credit cards. I think it's a

dump trailer. It's a dump trailer. Dump trailer, yeah. Or or one or the other.

You're right. So like yeah, but we're going to be cash flowing those purchases.

It's easy to try to justify it with the money on the other side. The problem is that's not a guarantee and we're not doing the math on what it's really going to cost us to break even all of that. So I would pay off all of your debt now. I personally would sell the gold.

Otherwise you're just going to be I would love for you guys to sacrifice and get rid of this debt over you know, a fast period of time but the scary part is to me is that you guys are making bringing home $12,000 a month and yet you still turn to debt.

Well, the the debt majority of our debt was from when we moved from we moved from New Jersey and honestly [clears throat] it was completely my fault. I accumulated a lot of debt buying things that were unnecessary and that was a lot of that. >> stopped?

Yes, it has and the other debt that we have a credit card was from investing in my business. I've invested a total of $50,000 in my business which means basically I've only made $10,000 last year. Investment however has stopped. I have everything I need to continue making money so at this point it's just cash.

Gotcha. Took it. Yeah, and I do want you to I want you guys to critically think though of the situation. I keep going

back to let's go $70,000 in debt. We'll

make two grand more a month but the debt payment on that may be a $1,000 between the truck and the and the trailer. You know, so that you're really only making $1,000 a month and again Plus there's interest. >> Yeah, people are doing that dog sitting.

Do you know what I'm saying? Like the like I'm just like like just keeping perspective of reality of these numbers cuz it's not to me it's like a it's like a non a non-starter.

So I'm just so afraid to sell the gold cuz we bought like $20,000 worth and now it's at 50. So like I'm afraid to >> hold on. Are we doing this to get rich or are we doing this to >> [music] >> you know, secure ourselves in case of an apocalypse? Cuz right now you're mixing a lot.

Uh You told me it's just in case and now you're keeping it because now it's like well, we could make more. >> the fear commodity. When fear happens which is happening right now, the market's kind of up and down, the war, everything. That that calms down.

Oh, it's going to go down. The market's already come back up. I would get rid of the gold and get off the internet cuz that's what's caused you to buy this. If the internet didn't exist, you'd own zero ounces of gold. >> cable news. It's all gold and reverse mortgages and walk-in bathtubs. Oof.

>> Let's not let's not go down that path.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel here with Rachel Cruze.

You've heard us mention EveryDollar and if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using the EveryDollar app and it's more than just our budgeting app. Now the plan is built right in and the singular focus of EveryDollar is to create margin to throw at your focused financial goal.

You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching and that will free up more money to work the plan even faster. So start EveryDollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Diane is in Philadelphia up next. Diane, welcome to the show.

Uh hello and thank you for this opportunity to get your advice. Uh we're honored that to give it. Hopefully it's good. >> [laughter] >> We hope it is too but anyway, let me give you the some facts.

I'm a caregiver for both my parents.

They live with me in my home.

They were divorced when I was like 12 years old and they each remarried and

each of those spouses have passed. So I've had my dad and they each have dementia too by the way but I've had my dad for eight years and I've had my mom for five.

My mom had a condo which I we kept. I didn't

sell it. I rented it out. I was a landlord too with all of all of this.

That's that's a part-time job too, girl.

>> [laughter] >> Tell me about it but so anyway, I rented it out for about four years. It's in a really quaint little town, really nice town that I'd like to move to when all this is you know, done. But um my my question is um

uh okay, the the renter moved out. I've I've had it for about a year where I use it to go to just relax and get some respite.

Um I have a sister.

I'm power of attorney.

We're both on the will for both of them to receive one half each.

I want to know the the condo still has a mortgage on it and most of the mortgage payment not most of it about half is still going to interest. So what I'd like to do is pay off the mortgage

remaining mortgage on the condo.

My sister has said she hasn't been helping. I've been doing most of it by myself. She just started helping maybe about eight months ago. Um she

said that she would forfeit her

inheritance for the condo just because I you know, it would have been gone anyway had they been in a nursing home or anything like that. They would have taken any assets they had um or that my mom has.

Um So I want to know one, is it

okay it would would it be a good to pay off the mortgage? It's about 33,000

left. And second, if I should get what my

sister said in writing so that there's

no you know, problem you know, in inheriting that proper property and having it for myself to move into.

Okay, so you're saying you're going to you want to take the condo and she'll take the rest of the inheritance.

No, I mean what do you mean?

Any other there there are no other assets? Is that what you're asking me? >> Oh, it's just the condo.

Right now yeah for my mom. Yeah, in fact yeah, she she >> sister getting in this?

She wouldn't be getting anything. Not for my mom, my dad. My father has money.

I've been, you know, a good steward of his money. So, he has She has money left. And they each have They each have insurance, but uh like an insurance policy that's that that she would get half of that. >> insurance? Yeah, but my mom's is a small policy.

It's It's only only about 15,000. Okay.

So, um but it's on my dad's side, uh she would get money. This She hasn't really done anything for Yeah, I was going to say the compensation of you being the caregiver uh is something usually most siblings, you know, talk about because to your point, you would be paying for someone to be doing this and you've been doing that. And so >> some states you can get paid to be the caregiver of your parents.

But they don't Yeah, you'd have to be on Medicaid and and um you know, they'd have to spend down all their assets and you know, they'd have a lien on my The condo would be gone, you So, how much is the condo worth if you were to sell it?

Yeah, the market value right now is is um so it's I should say only, but it's about 130. 130,000.

>> 130,000. Okay. Okay. So,

>> one-bedroom condo. Yeah, so so technically, if it was paid off and that was the asset that you girls had to that you you and your sister had to split, then to buy her out, you would have to pay $65,000.

Yep. Yep. To pay her out. Yep.

>> But you're saying you have 33,000 that you could do just to pay it off right now. I could pay the mortgage so she my mom wouldn't be paying interest, you know, on that cuz I am using She gets a monthly pension. So, um a small pension about 2,500 a month and I I use part of that to pay the the mortgage, um Yeah, because at the end when the like if you didn't pay it off and she passed, the estate has to settle up. And so, you'd have to >> the payments on the loan.

>> Yeah, I'd be paying it anyway or I'd have to sell it. That's the same Yeah, if you get it in writing that you're going to get your money you put into it plus your share, then I think that's fair. Yeah, you just may have to still continue to buy her You There may still be a difference, but I wonder if you can add up from an hour's perspective of the caregiving and just see if your sister would negotiate with you like some of it off just for what you would Well, even even at that, like if if if they were if she was in a nursing home, that's what I I figured if she was in a nursing home the local I just a mediocre nursing home nowadays is like $9,000 a month and it's it's $350 a day.

uh That's what you're saving by you being the caregiver. Yeah, that's what it is. 108,000 a year easily. I I've and

I've had it five years. So, I figured I've earned I've earned the condo.

That's my point of view, but Have you Have you Have you mentioned that to Have you said that to your sister at all? Have you all had that conversation? She did Yeah, she she said Yeah, she can have it, but saying it That's what I'm saying. So, I have to get it in writing.

So, she's good with it, but you just need to get it in writing cuz you're you're like it's a handshake agreement right now. We need this in writing. >> Right, exactly. >> just say, "Hey, I'm I'm working with my estate planner.

There's no confusion." And you guys have a good relationship right now?

It's better. When she wasn't helping out, it wasn't so good. >> Okay. There was enough pause there that I went, "Okay." >> [laughter] >> Just a slight pause, but yeah, you want to salvage what's left of the relationship at least and it can go south when, you know, family passes, you're grieving and now you're like, "Well, you said you" And now she's looking at the numbers going, "Well, I could I'd love to have 60 grand in my pocket." >> I never said that. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Cuz she she she doesn't She never listened to me. I've told been telling her about your program. I'm I'm debt-free. Awesome.

>> But they're they're and, you know, in dire Not dire straits, but, you know, They're they're struggling more than you are. >> her to help me. I offered her money. That's how she's helping. Cuz I pay her.

>> Well, I think what you're doing is very fair. You sound like a a real noble, sweet person. I mean, the fact that you've, you know, given your life to care for your family at this point is >> Yeah, you're amazing. incredible.

They're They're so lucky to have you in their life and um it's a much better life than being in a nursing home, by the way. The quality of care that you're giving them um is priceless. So, I appreciate the call and I wish you the best for, you know, formalizing all of this. >> For sure.

Yeah, I was going to say if you called to get permission to if is formalizing okay? Yes, it should be a requirement. And so, I would >> should I pay off Should I pay off the mortgage now? Once it's formalized, I think it's wise to go if you got the money sitting around burning a hole in your pocket and you don't want to deal with the mortgage and the interest, it'll definitely give you some peace of mind.

Yeah. And then you can decide if you keep the condo or not.

Okay. All right. Thank you so much.

>> Absolutely. Thank you for the call, Diane. I I love that we're talking about this now. >> What a jewel of a human. Oof. Yeah, and two parents with dementia. I cannot imagine. >> hard. So hard. Um that's a lot of work.

And the other thing to think about here is power of attorney, which it can be very difficult once they have lost the cognitive ability to make decisions. So, depending on the diagnosis, you know, I would be talking to the doctor and the estate planning attorney to figure out can we get financial power of attorney to move the money around, make financial decisions on their behalf. That's an important piece of the puzzle, too.

But I appreciate the call. This is the the hard stuff you deal with and the baby steps don't make any of this easier. It just takes away the stress of money problems on top of all of this.

So, I'm so glad that you followed the plan, Diane. You're debt-free. You have options because you set yourself up for that kind of life, for that kind of flexibility, for that kind of generosity. Cuz if you were broke, you wouldn't have many options. You wouldn't be able to take care of your family the way you are. You wouldn't be able to pay off the condo. So, I appreciate you being a living example of what life looks like when you follow this plan.

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com/

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 4:16. [music] Therefore, we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed [music] day by day.

Thomas Edison said, "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up." There we go. Thanks for the light bulb, my guy. We got a lot of lights in here thanks to you. Never give up. All right, Michael's in Louisville up next. What's going on, Michael?

Hey, how are you doing, sir? We're doing great. Just having a good time.

Uh so, my question is um I just recently came across a financial reset myself and

I came across a decent sum of money and I'm looking to see moving forward, what is the best way to be a good godly steward of what I've got. Oh, it's a great question. How much money has come upon you, Michael? Well,

believe it or not, I just sold a baseball card for over $300,000.

Come again now. What card was this?

Tell us the deets. How do we get into the business?

Yeah, literally I'm telling you when it was a card shop, finances have been tight and I've spent a lot of money or been so selling a lot of baseball cards to help pay pay bills this winter. And so, I

thought I owed it to myself to go buy some more. And so, I bought a box that had two cards in it and pulled a one-of-one Ohtani refractor, which just sold in auction for $324,000.

Oh my god. That is wild. That is crazy.

So, is this like a like an auction that will handle this all for you and they take a fee?

Um yes, so they've already taken it.

It's already sold. I've already gotten a large cash advance and the rest of it comes within the next week through a wire transfer. Wow. All right, what's your net worth currently without this card? Uh Without this card? Um I mean, I've So,

I've never been a Dave Ramsey financial financially free. I struggled with credit cards early on and kind of never was able to get out of that hole. I've got investment properties, just a few have the wife and I. And so, we have We're in in really good shape on those. And thanks to this baseball card, completely debt-free with the exception of mortgages. Oh, great.

Okay, so you don't have credit card debt anymore. I just paid it off. Yeah. But you have your primary home as a mortgage?

>> he had it before the baseball card. How much did you have before the baseball card? I'm just curious.

It's embarrassing. Probably like 40 some thousand. Okay. Cuz that part of you has not changed. Okay? The guy that got $40,000 in credit card debt, he's still there. He's still in you, okay? And you just were able to wipe it off with a lucky >> part of your brain, that impulsivity that caused you to go into credit card debt, is the same one that got you that card. It just happened to work out this time.

Right. So, I'm just saying we got to be cautious, okay? Because Okay. Um meaning

I'm glad you paid it off, but do you know what I'm saying? You had no emotional sweat equity, if you will, by paying off $40,000 of credit card debt.

It didn't take you a year with extra jobs, and you had to really sacrifice.

It was just in one fell swoop, it was gone. So, nothing in you has really changed. So, it's just a red flag. It's a marker. >> Just easy to go back in. >> Yep. Just a marker of, "Hey, I got to be aware that that is my That's My propensity is to go into debt." So, we got to remember that. I'm saying. Um >> I'm going to just uh say this.

I have debt. It really changed. It didn't give me a new perspective on life. Um I'm new Um it's given my wife and I financial uh breath. Um the stress

is is completely gone. I understand those impulses may be there, but uh I'm very much aware of uh the blocking this is, and that things need to change moving forward. >> Good. Okay, I'm so glad so glad you said that. Yes. So, what's left on the mortgages?

Um so, with investment properties, uh we have about 230 that's owed, and then I'm

sorry. Um three 320 that's owed on investment properties, and uh a hundred and some on personal mortgage.

Okay. And do you guys have savings already?

Um we've got a little bit. Not much.

Okay. And what's the amount that's sitting there from the card right now?

Um we still have over 200,000 coming.

Okay, great. So, you can fully fund an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses, and still have what, 160

grand? 175 grand?

Yes. >> And that would pay off your primary mortgage.

Correct? Okay. Well, um I'm First of all, I got to give um I mean, I know that I need to give something back to the Lord here.

And um We weren't done with the list. I was just walking through the things you you could be doing. We're going to give some and enjoy some, for sure. I just want to see what was left over after you paid down the mortgage and set aside the emergency fund.

I got you. I understand. Would there be a good chunk left over after that?

Um no, there was another um secondary like a home equity line of credit that I paid off as well. So, I'm looking at as

it sits with mortgages, and about a little over 200,000.

Okay, that's just your primary plus the HELOC, not the investment properties.

Um >> [clears throat] >> the primary is about 180. The HELOC is

paid off, and then I have investment properties. Okay, the HELOC's paid off.

So, we don't even mention it. It's out of the picture now. Great. Yes. Okay.

So, what I'm thinking is we set aside an emergency fund. If we have enough to pay off the mortgage completely, let's do that, and then the rest, let's give some and enjoy some.

That sounds good.

Any different thoughts on that, Rachel?

No, I Frees up a mortgage payment, so I love that idea. Yes, for sure. Um Yes,

one of my one of my mortgages has like 8 and 1/2%, which is higher than everything else. It's uh 55,000 for one of the properties. I thought about getting rid of that one just because of the >> going to say, yeah. How many How many investment properties do you have?

Um I have uh four. Okay, and they all have mortgages on them?

Yes, but they're all I mean, there's all There's plenty of equity in all of them, but the highest interest rate is one that's 55,000. >> sold I'm just curious. I am

If you sold all your all four investment properties, I'm just curious.

And paid off all the mortgages, how much equity, how much cash would y'all be sitting on?

If we sold everything, sold all the investment properties, and paid off my mortgage? No, no, no, no. Didn't pay off yours. Paid off the the mortgages on those properties. So, what would you net out?

Oh, with the money from the card, uh there's not enough money from the card to pay everything off. >> no, no, Michael. You have four properties.

Here, we have time. We got We got We got 3 minutes. Okay, how How much uh How much is one of the properties? How much do you How much is it worth, and how much do you owe on property number one? >> Um 94 is what's owed, and 120 is what it's

worth. 120, okay. Property two?

Uh 55 is owed, 120 is what it's worth.

120, okay. Property three?

80 is what's owed, 160 is what it's worth. 150?

160. 60, all right. So, we got

The last one? Yep. Property 80 is owed,

180 is what it's worth. Okay.

Got it. Okay, so we got I got like

280, George? Was my math right? I'm >> I'm I'm I'm chicken scratching on this paper. >> 271, final answer, Bob. 271? Oh, that was pretty quick. I I rounded. I'm a rounder. So, that's, you know, that's before any kind of closing costs and realtor fees, but let's call it 250-ish.

>> 250, just for the heck of it, of equity that's in some of these. Okay.

Um I'm just trying to paint I'm just trying to get us different scenarios, cuz when you come into a pile of money, there's a lot of And and because you guys have so

many things happening in your life.

Um And you're asking us The word steward is on the screen, which I'm I'm saying >> it. >> You brought God in, so we're going to >> [laughter] >> We're going to talk about that. We'll go there. I understand.

My pastor and I have talked about like a possible foundation with a little bit of money, or, you know, help paying for some missions. >> Generosity comes from overflow. And right now, you know, if you look at Proverbs, the borrower is slave to the lender. So, right now, we're not in freedom there.

>> worldview um with our money, every time debt is mentioned in scripture, Michael, it's in a negative fashion. It is not a sin, so you're not going to like go to hell cuz you have a HELOC. Like, none of that, okay? It's not a sin.

>> hell is in HELOC. I just want to put that out there. >> Oh, that's true.

Uh you know, you don't have to confess anything. Like, it's not a sin. Um but every time it is mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse on your family.

You are a slave to the lender. It is not good. Like, nowhere in debt in scripture

is debt good, okay?

So, Michael, I'm going to be a little hard on you, but you have been playing around the edges and the fringes of this debt world. HELOCs and credit cards and four mortgages and I mean, it is like you have become You have loved debt.

Like, you do. You use debt as a tool, and it's gotten you in a really bad spot. And now This is going to be so sacrilegious. I was going to say, like a Get out of hell free card? Get out of hell free card came upon you.

And so, if we're going to go all in with

the biblical perspective, let's go all in. And let's just pay everything off.

Let's sell everything. Let's start with no debt. [music] And if you did that, you would have probably almost 300,000 back in your pocket after you sell everything and and pay off the primary home with the proceeds of the card. $300,000 in the black, Michael.

You got this, man. >> Hey, that puts this hour in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. George Camel,

number one best-selling author, host of the George Camel Show, a big hit on Ramsey Network, YouTube. Be sure and

check him out. He's my co-host. 88 8255225 is the number here. Lori is in Oregon.

Hi Lori, how are you?

>> I am doing very well, thank you and thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, um question. My husband's 71 and

he owns his own business and still working and he probably always will. Um,

I'm 69 and I retired about four years ago after 30 years with a local

government agency and I receive a small pension and social security.

Um, we have about 500k

in savings, which would be CDs and

highinterest um, just savings accounts.

and we have about 700K in our retirement

funds and we own our own home which is

worth about 400K.

>> Way to go. >> Um, thank you.

>> Look at you retiring a millionaire.

>> I am so proud of of both of us.

>> You did really well. I I assume you started with nothing and you did not inherit this.

>> That's correct. >> Good for you. Um, I only had come across

you in the last year. But the amazing

thing was I grew up mostly with my grandma who had exactly the same advice

as you. So I followed her advice and

found that you gave the same exact advice. >> Gods and grandma's ways of handling money. It's called common sense.

>> You know, I think you've bottled common sense. But we've worked really hard. We

have one son who is now an attorney. Um

he worked his way through college and law school. We helped him with um what

he couldn't quite um afford. So he

graduated several years ago and he's been an attorney for two years now with no debt also. We're very proud of him.

>> Well, you guys have done a great job, Lori. How can we help today?

Well, my question is, we have the

500,000 in CDs that will be coming due

um here the end of the year and in the

spring. We're getting about 5% on those certificates.

>> My question is, should we shift those over to um the market?

>> Yes.

>> Okay, that's what I was thinking. Um,

what should we be keeping in our

emergency fund and our liquid fund?

>> Three to six months of expenses plus money for anything you're wanting to buy.

>> Okay? >> If you're getting ready to buy a car, you're getting ready to go on that trip you've saved for your whole life, uh, you're getting ready to do something expensive and you need to set aside some money for that plus your emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses.

>> Okay? I want you to I want you to sit down with a Smart Vtor pro. Go to ramseysolutions.com.

Click on smartvester. If you don't have a good advisor and have someone teach

you about the kinds of mutual funds you can park this in, and I want you to do it sooner rather than later. I personally was online with my guy this morning moving some money, making sure I got it into the market because I I looked up and I had too much sitting like you did. I didn't in a money market and high yield and I didn't want to do that because here's the thing.

>> That's what I was looking at also. So um

the one thing my dream trip when I turn

70 next year I would like to go to

Australia. >> You need to go. It's a wonderful trip >> and they're wonderful people. I love the Australians.

I and I was looking at the expenses.

I've never been on a cruise and I've never been quite that far away from home. Um,

my question is, can we afford that?

>> You can't afford not to do it. You have to do this.

>> You've done such a wonderful job, honey.

The difference that in this conversation, >> investing this money versus high yield will pay for the trip.

Oh, okay. I didn't think of it that way.

>> I did. I mean, 50 50 grand is a great

trip to Australia.

>> You can stay anywhere, do anything. You can have a private butler with you.

Yeah, it'll be great. >> And it won't cost you, but a a percentage of a percentage of your net worth. So, you're going to >> You have done such a good job. I want you to enjoy your money as well as be

generous with your money as well as continuing to be wise with your money.

You've done just you've just done wonderful. I do not and you know I want you to start planning that trip today and look at some of the high-end cruise lines. Don't you cheap out on me, girl.

Okay? Get the nice stuff. Don't go on the Walmart cruise. Okay?

>> I mean, we're talking we're talking the big dog, the big dog here, the Nordstrom cruise or whatever. Right. >> Dave has graduated over the years and you've done nicer and nicer cruise lines >> and nicer and nicer trips. I I I got to tell you, if you want to travel, well, you travel with me cuz I'm not going to go that way anyway.

I'm not doing it anymore. I fall it falls under the heading of life is too short and I'm right behind her in age. So, there we go.

we're going to do it. >> This is the live like no one else. >> So, I mean, if you're 70 and you've got a couple million dollars or million and a half dollars, folks, you're and your house is paid for, you're in great shape. And look at it this way. You might have 10 years of good health. You

might have 15. You might have 20 years

of good health. But so when someone asks you a question like, "Should you do this?" The answer is, "Why wouldn't I?

You've done it all. You've worked all your life to get here. You've lived like no one else. And so now you live like no one else. Why wouldn't I?" And I'm I'm hanging on this subject with this caller, George, because I want all of those 23 year olds that are listening and watching us to grasp that this is the payoff. This is how it really works.

You can't wait on the government to tax billionaires to make you rich. That's called socialism. It's never made anyone rich except the people running the place. And so what makes people rich is what she did and what her husband did.

And there's the payoff. Okay? And you don't even have to wait until you're this old to do it. But you know I if you

do the stuff we teach, you're going to be right where they are and more >> and you get to do this. This is the they they are the poster children for uh hardly children but poster children for uh uh live like no one else and later you can live and give like no one else.

And I was discussing some uh generosity on on with a friend of mine this morning that we're talking about doing this. Kind of outrageous and it's just a lot of fun. George, >> yeah, this is the healthy side of yolo.

You only live once. This is what you hear from young people. Well, now Lori, we're going Lori, you only live once.

Use this wealth now. You've done such a great job building it. Now you're in the deaccumulation where you can enjoy some of it. Get >> and and after you finish with Australia, you need to try New Zealand. It's neat, too. So, just while you're down there, while you're down there running around upside down, you might as well hang out.

And uh or or make plans to go back the next summer. I don't care. You're going to love it. And again, I I have gone to

uh all over the world to countries that are don't even that I didn't even know their names when I was growing up. And I find the nicest people everywhere I go.

This world is full of wonderful people.

There's a lot of great folks out there.

I I find very few countries that I just go, "This place stinks. These people stink. I don't want to go back." Because very few of those you you know very few.

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[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] Jordan is in Washington. Hi Jordan. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing great. Glad to be here.

>> Good to have you. How can we help?

Hey, so um I gotta calm myself down a

little bit. I've been listening to the show pretty much non-stop. I'm a janitor, so I have hours and hours and hours to listen to podcast. So I've been binging your guys' stuff in the last couple of weeks. >> Wow. >> My main question Yeah. Yeah. Um my main

question, we um we are wanting to

potentially sell sell our house. Uh we're just kind of starting the baby steps though, so I'm like really into I want to pay off her debt. I want to get this uh um emergency fund set up and

stuff first, but my wife, you know, it's been really emotional kind of with her.

Uh we got four kids at home. She's um she's doing all the homeschooling and kind of trying to take care of everything. And it's not really a house that she wants to be in. So, in my mind,

I'm very logical trying to think like, hey, we could do this in like the next two years, but I also see our house value has gone up like $100,000. It's probably worth about 30 305. We bought

it for like 219. Um, and I've got about just under 200,000 uh left on it. Um,

and but the other thing is we've also got a lot of new housing being built in the area. So, I'm not quite sure how that's going to affect their housing uh price and if that's going to go up in the next few years and if waiting a little while would >> they're not building houses in your price range. Your house is going to go skyrocketing in the next few years.

Okay. Yeah, >> the new houses are more the new houses are more expensive.

>> Okay. So, it's definitely we can we can expect a a increase. Yes. In our

>> Okay, that's what I was thinking and that's kind of what I was looking for. And as I've been walking my wife through this and kind of saying like, hey, this is what our budget looks like and this is how much money we've got. We've already stopped the retirement, so I'm bringing in about a thousand a little extra a month. And then I just started doing dual dash on the side. >> Cool. How much debt have you got?

Um, we've got about 31,000. There's

about 5,000 in credit card debt. I can have that paid off very easily by the end of the year. And then part of part of this question also was that I have $26,000 on our sighting um on our house.

Like right when we got in um there was a contractor door to door person was like, "Hey, we can do your sighting, your windows." And I was like, "Well, there's a couple holes in the sighting. It probably hasn't been replaced in the last 20 years, so sure, let's do that." Um, so I actually wasn't sure if that would qualify as debt that would be paid off in step two or if we should >> What's your uh what's your household income?

>> Um, I'm making for my janitorial job about 64,000.

>> Um, I bring out about 4,000 a month just

recently since I stopped all the extra payments and stuff. About >> 4,000 a month. And then >> I' I'd love to see you plow I'd love to see you plow through it. The way we decide if something is uh real estate debt or if it's baby step two is if the

second mortgage, in this case the sighting loan, is more than half your

annual income. This is right close. So it's kind of on the bubble. So as far as I'm concerned, you could throw it either direction, but I'd prefer, if I were you, to be clear of it as soon as possible. >> I mean, if you can clear you can clear debt at what, two grand a month?

>> Um, we haven't. We just kind of started

messing around with the every dollar budget. Um, >> so I've got the free version. We're just kind of dinking around and I'm thinking

>> that it probably be closer to a,000, maybe 1,200. I don't think we could clear to 2,000. >> Okay. >> But we just you're getting started. I want to aim that way. And you know, if you don't clear it before you sell the house, that's fine. Um, if you want to sell the house, you want to move up in house. That's what you're telling me.

Are you sure you can afford that?

>> Well, actually, my wife is wanting to move down to Oregon. So, that's another conversation that we're we're trying to have right now cuz >> that's a completely different twist on what we were talking about. So, is are the house going to be more expensive the same or less?

>> Uh, we would probably go down. Um, because right now I think our mortgage, we got a 30-year first-time home buyers thing. We got PMI. If you're going down in mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from doing it immediately.

>> Okay. You mean there's nothing stopping me from selling the house? >> Yeah. And moving to Oregon >> if you're going down be able to make the same. >> I'm sorry. That's >> You wouldn't make the same in a janitorial job over there.

>> Yeah. So, I work as a government uh contract. >> So, the the thing that's stopping you is you have to find a job in Oregon. That's the thing that's stopping you.

Okay. So if you had that if you had that lined up. So I'm going to start looking for that >> and make her dreams come true cuz it also is is congruent with >> uh you know clearing all these debts because the siding will be paid when you sell the house.

So maybe six months.

>> Okay. That's a lot faster than I was expecting. Well, I mean, it's it's all has to do with you having housing that is the same or less price and you having a job >> and you'll have, you know, the fees that are associated closing costs, real realtor fees, plus you're going to pay down the debt. So, you won't have as much to put down on the next as you might think.

So, that might be another piece of the puzzle to solve. That might mean we're going to delay this for 6 months or a year. It's not going to happen tomorrow. >> Yeah.

now I hear you very excited about doing

this stuff and I'm excited that you're excited. She's at home fighting the bear with four kids. She ain't excited right now. >> Yeah, it's been it's been growing on her a little bit and I think she's been asking to have a budget date for a while. >> Yeah. So, talk about where where this takes us before you talk about how we get there. >> Talk about why before you talk about how. Talk about why until she finally

says, "I agree with why. Now, how do we

do that?" And then we start talking about what the sacrifices look like to get to the winning to go across the finish line. >> It's a dream day. So we get the why and then we go, okay, what must be true now?

Let's reverse engineer it to figure out how we get there. Well, I need a job making this much. >> Yeah. But I mean, I do stuff like he's doing. I And that is I find something and I get on it and I I go down the rabbit hole and I binge, you know, I'm going to learn everything there is to know about it. And then uh I've got 73,000 hours invested in this subject

and my wife has 73 minutes and then I

expect her to not to understand what I'm saying and why I'm excited. And so I have to go all the way back to the beginning and say why I got excited about this and then talk about what it means. >> But often times if you get excited and you come start coming you go, "Honey, I got this great plan. We're going to sell your car." That doesn't work. Okay?

That doesn't work at all. Oh, coming in a little little strong there. >> Coming in hot. Coming in hot.

Yeah. So, yeah, that that's a problem. So, Jordan, thank you for being a new listener. Hang on.

We will set you up with the Every Dollar Premium version so you and your wife can accomplish these goals. It sounds like you will do it. Uh again, it's got to do with a career move as much as anything here and start working on it. >> Yeah.

>> You know, you can find something. There's no reason you can't get a good job in today's world. It's it's very doable.

>> If they like the house, almost never

because unless the house is like a 50% of your take-home pay or something, you can't afford it. >> So, if the mortgage is far too much and there's no interest, >> if the mortgage is reasonable and they like the house, usually the house is not the problem. I would prefer to plow through the debt. Now, if you're facing bankruptcy because you got so much debt and the sale of the house clears up all that debt and you don't have to file bankruptcy, well, obviously you're going to do that.

Or if the house if you hate the house in her case, she hates the house. She's trapped in a small house with four kids homeschooling and she wants out of dodge. Oh, add to that. She wants to go to Oregon.

Ah, so there's a whole another thing, family and all that, the the draw with the kids and get back to grandma.

So, uh, that's all tied in. So this house is not something they want or at least she wants anyway. He's willing to

sit there for a minute. Uh if it means if it's the best way, but the be there's no reason to stay in this house.

>> Yeah. >> They don't like it and and they're ready to move to another state and everything else. And so um yeah, it's not a bad thing. >> It's part of a bigger plan.

You're doing it for the right reasons, not just well cuz part of it is we see people just sell the house, but then no behavior change happens. Exactly. Just a get out of jail free card. >> Exactly.

And even if you wanted to sell the house and it has that effect, that's dangerous >> cuz you need to build the muscles and the calluses and say, "I'll never I'll never go back into debt." >> I'll never go.

>> It's too pervasive. Everybody thinks you're weird when you're debtree.

>> Uh because you're not broke anymore like they are.

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James is in Atlantic City. Hi James. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so I have recently moved to Atlantic City maybe about seven months ago. Uh

came from a small town, had no casinos, had no access to gambling where I was from. Uh and since then I have picked up

a pretty nasty habit of going to casinos. Um in the past couple of months, I would say less than two months, maybe

six weeks or so, I've lost about 45 to $55,000 of my money. Basically everything that I have. Um, it started small, started with little bets, $25 here and there, uh, going out with some of my new friends that I met in town. And then all of a sudden, before I know it, I was going out alone. Uh, bets went up to 100 bucks a night, and then 500 bucks a night, and then next thing you know, I'm going in two, three, four, $5,000 a night. And, uh, over the course

of maybe a week and a half, I really lost a big chunk. And I tried to chase it. And then over the past maybe three weeks or so, I've lost everything.

>> James, I'm sorry. How old are you, honey? >> Uh, just turned 25.

>> Pretty scary to be this out of control, isn't it? >> Yep. Uh, what's what's really kind of scary for me, too, is I don't I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do anything at all. I live a a fully sober life. I don't do anything else. I've never had an addiction to anything. Never used nicotine, nothing. So, first

real addiction I think I've ever felt.

>> Yeah. Well, you're feeling one. There's no question. I mean, you have all the symptoms anyway of somebody who's in the throws of that. Um, you I mean, you're

watching yourself almost an out-of- body experience do life destroying things and

still do them anyway. That's that's the sign of an addict, right?

>> Yep. And what what what's really crazy to me is it's it's like I black out whenever I go. I don't even it just feels like I'm not even myself. And then the second I leave the casinos, it feels like I'm kind of back and I I realize what I did after. >> Are you Are you working?

>> Uh yeah, I am. >> What do you earn, sir?

>> Uh about 120 a year.

>> Doing what?

>> Uh I own a business.

>> Okay, good. Good. All right. Um well, if

I woke up in your shoes is how we answer questions on this show. Uh George and I are not uh PhD in counseling like Dr.

John Deloney who's on with us from time to time. Uh but sadly for 30 years I've

dealt with uh addicts and um because

100% of addicts eventually have financial trouble. Um and so um I'm

afraid I've gotten to know something about this the hard way just by working with a lot of folks struggling with this. Um so from that that's the basis

I'm answering the question on. So I'm not telling you I'm a clinical expert.

I'm not. I'm just a practical expert because I've dealt with so many people in your situation. So, if I woke up in your shoes, what would I do? Um, I I I

would do uh three things immediately as soon as you hang up the phone. Okay.

One, I would find Gamblers Anonymous in your area and contact them. GA, it's

Alcoholics Anonymous for Gamblers, 12step program. Okay? And they have probably one of the better results of

helping people with this than anybody out there. Number two, I would find a

coach or a counselor, uh, a therapist in

the area that you can meet with one- on-one and you make enough money to afford to meet with someone one-on-one and you need to start meeting with them immediately, you are in crisis,

okay? They got to give you language for the way your brain is functioning so you can learn how both of those places will help you with that. So you can learn how to navigate your way from this.

Okay. Now, you moved to Atlantic City to open this business.

>> Uh, no. I I I I've been there for here

and there with family and kind of been out there and then I I guess you could say yes, technically. Um, but I didn't move there to open it specifically. It just kind of happened that way. >> Okay. What is your business?

>> Uh, it is electronics.

>> What's that mean? >> So, uh, selling, fixing phones,

computers, uh, >> basically anything. If you don't

have success doing those two things, and the third one I'm going to tell you is uh find a good church in your area, and start developing relationships with good men that are not hanging out in casinos.

Okay? If those three things together, gamblers anonymous, a therapist, and a good church, and revitalizing or causing

for the first time your spiritual awakening inside of you, um that's going to be part of your healing process. If you can't get those three things together to work, you have to move away from the casinos.

>> Mhm. >> I live in Nashville. There's not any here.

>> A big problem I've been really having recently is uh like life has just become

not fun anymore. like daily things or I don't I don't get the the level of excitement that I need from anything at >> it's a it's a false narrative because the um what happens is that anytime you're in an addictive feedback loop um

the the addict's mind says the only fun

thing is when I'm doing the addiction

>> and so everything else is boring.

>> You're chasing that high and so you always need the newer, better, crazier high. And that's what happened in your situation. So, you're going to need to replace those habits with other things that are healthier. Do you have any hobbies currently?

>> Uh, not not anymore. I mean, I used to be into sports and uh back where I was from, I had a lot of friends, but since I've moved up here, I I don't really know many people. So, >> yeah, you you've got to rebuild you got to rebuild a uh a friend group

intentionally as a part of this healing that is not going to casinos because you do become who you hang around with. You noticed that, right?

>> Uh definitely. And then they push me. I mean, the friends I go with, they bet big money, so it kind of pushes me to to, you know, I >> Yeah. You feel like a wimp when you're dropping 10 and they're dropping a hundred. >> Yep. >> Or they're dropping a 100 and you're dro or they're dropping a thousand and you're dropping a hundred, whatever it is. But yeah, you feel like a wimp.

>> And that the tr the opposite is true. I I'm the biggest wimp of all if that's the case cuz I can walk through those places and watch other people lose money all day long. Doesn't bother me a bit.

I'm not I'm not I don't feel pressured at all to join the parade of bodies

created by these things. And um you know, I'll throw out one other piece of information. James, will you do those three things for me to take care of James?

>> Yes. And uh something I've already done as well is uh Atlantic City has a

government funded uh trying to think of a way to phrase this, like a kind of like a GA almost. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I I I don't know anything about the inner workings of that or if it's successful, but I'm always suspect when the fox says, "Oh, to the hen house, here's how you fix it." You know, it's it's it's funded by the gambling people. I So, I mean, I'm not saying it's nefarious. I don't think it is. I think it's well-meaning. Uh but

it's also a reaction to they had to do something because the PR around the number of lives they're destroying is pretty incredible. And so they had to so well if you have a gambling problem dial 1 800 I've got a gambling problem and they put that after all the FanDuel ads now after FanDuel made about $80 billion

a minute off of people just like you >> and so it just pisses me off. But yeah, I I'm that's a good that's not a bad move, but it can't be your only move.

>> Yeah. And then on top of that, there might need to be some guard rails around your your bank accounts and your finances to stop you from doing something rash and spending a lot of money. That might mean putting limits on your bank account so you can't spend over a certain amount or if you have a trusted friend that can keep you accountable. Uh that's going to really help with this just to remove you.

Right now you need more friction stopping you from doing the thing. >> So as much friction as we can add removing apps stopping you there. I know there's some apps out there that can help with that as well as I was looking this up. Gamb blocker.

There's all kinds of things out there that can help, but it's the one which one are you actually going to stick with and do? That's the question.

yesterday uh scarcity loop >> is the book. Yeah, read read Scarcity Loop by Michael Est. And um it's a good

book. It's worth reading. Um, and any of you that are just interested in this subject, he does it's a full unpacking of how the feedback loop works in the brain on several different things. And >> scarcity brain.

Michael Easter. >> Scarity brain. Thank you. And I called him yesterday.

M. Sorry. Michael familiar. >> Yeah.

Michael Easter. Thank you. I know him and he's been here and been on the show, been on stage with us and I should have known his name. I apologize.

Michael, but he's brilliant. My my brain couldn't scarcity brain.

thing that covers in that he gets into in this book and it's pretty it's very interesting read. >> Yeah. The good news is Mike uh James is young enough that he's going to recover from this and it'll just be a giant stupid tax hopefully he looks back on.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You I lost $50 in one night when I was 21 playing a hand of poker I didn't know how to play. The last time I played Wow.

That was 45 years ago.

>> Touch the hot stuff once. >> My addiction lasted one night.

>> Short lived.

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trainings. There's new trainings every week this month and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsy personalities. George, when's your next one? >> I think I've got one uh next week or week after that. And we got Jaden Rachel up in the meantime. >> All right. Depending on when baby That's right. I'm on baby watch. >> There we go. So depend on that.

>> They may have to fill in for you. So we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and pe typically people find thousands of dollars around $10,000 worth of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt, start building wealth and you can ask us any question during the live Q&A and it's really lively. You're going to enjoy it. Sign up for free at ramseyolutions.com/webinar.

Stacy's in Texas. Hi Stacy. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> I have a question about what to do about my car. Um, I am in desperate need to

get rid of it. The car payment is

astronomical. Um, the interest rate is astronomical and I'm trying to decide if I can do like a voluntary repossession, how bad that would be on my credit. Um, because I'm about $20,000 upside down.

Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into this one?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Because typically a car won't lose that much unless it's a huge expensive car. So, uh, who Okay. Well, what kind

of car is it? >> It's a Hyundai Palisade uh 2024.

>> Oh, jeez. Okay.

>> I know. >> Yeah. And um >> so bad. >> Yeah. And And what do you owe on it?

>> 57. >> 57.

57. >> And you think it's worth 37?

>> Yes, if that. Why? >> More like 345.

>> Why? >> Uh because I've had it appraised, I guess you could say, at different places to see what I could get for it. And >> so you went to you went to dealers and asked them what they would give you for it. >> Uh basically. Yeah. Well, I also went to Yeah. to different car >> lots. That That's a wholesale. Okay.

That means they're going to buy it at a price that they can make money on it.

And so that tells me that if you look this up on kelly blue book kbb.com and

look at private sale, if you were to sell it to an individual, that price is between wholesale and retail. It's between what a dealer will ask for it versus what a dealer will give for it.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> So my guess is >> it was about 42.

>> Yeah, that's more Yeah. And I'm thinking maybe like 43 or 45 is what I was getting ready to say. So I'm making that up, but just based on the percentages of what it usually is. Yeah, I'm seeing 41 44 on here just looking them up what they're actually selling for in the market right now. Used.

>> So, okay. So, that leaves you more like So, if you got 44 or 43 for it, that leaves you more like 13,000 in the hole.

>> Yeah. >> And what is your interest rate?

>> 8%. >> 8%. Okay.

>> I know. It's so bad.

>> Okay. And so, do you have any money?

>> Not really. >> Well, it's not really, ma'am. Not really. >> What's that? >> That really means >> means you have something you don't want to tell me about. What is it?

>> No, I mean I have all kinds of debt. I have all kinds of debt. Um and I have other I have other you know credit card debt. I have student loan debt. I have >> How much other debt do you have?

>> About 70,000. I have 10,000 in credit card, 60,000 in student loan debt.

>> Okay. And another 10 in something else.

>> Yeah. And on negative equity loans.

Well, it's more like an unsecured loan.

Okay. All right. And what do you make a year? >> 60,000. >> Okay. And you don't have any money, literally?

>> Well, I mean, I have like $2,000.

>> Okay. That's what I was asking. That's that I was hoping you had something.

Okay. Good. >> Yeah. >> And um and you're apparently the language you're using, you're single.

>> Actually, I'm I am married, but my

husband doesn't he his finances are not

with mine. Okay. And thus we have part of the

problem. >> Yeah. >> The um So, does he have any money?

>> He has lots of money.

>> Okay. >> He has all kinds of money. He makes 15,000 a month. >> Okay. Then we don't have a money problem. We have a marriage problem.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, that's how we're going to solve the car problem. We're going to solve the core problem that caused the car problem. The car problem is a symptom. It's not the problem. the

credit card debts and the other loans are a symptom. Uh you're trying to act like you have a rich roommate instead of a husband. He's trying to act like he has a poor roommate instead of a wife,

>> right? >> While you go out here trying to exist and run around doing things that are killing you, he makes plenty of money to have bought a car.

>> This is ridiculous. >> Is his name on any of the debts?

>> No, because he he had had an affair and he left for a year. So that's why I'm in so much debt because he left and he didn't pay for anything while he was gone. So I had to get a car and I didn't have any credit at the time to speak of.

So I just got and that's why my interest rate was so high. >> Um so I just was it's kind of like desperate measures.

Um so when he came back >> But you had another car at the time. You just upgraded during the time he was gone. >> Yeah. Because my other car was breaking down >> and so he >> So was your heart. Yeah. Um.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, he came back. You let him come back.

>> Tell me about >> I did. >> So, how how's the overall relationship thing? Are y'all seeing a therapist or how you working through that?

>> It's very it's a very shallow relationship. If I try to talk to him about money, he says it's my problem.

>> Um, and I try to ask him about the car and he's like, "You got yourself into you have to get yourself out of it." Yeah. >> So, um there's really no forward progress on any of that. Um it's very >> okay. You guys need to be seeing a therapist and you guys need to be moving towards healing or towards ending this.

And then you figure out what you're going to do from this point forward because this this is um all of this is

the backdrop for some really sad bad

decisions on your part because you were desperate, you were scared, you were heartbroken, you weren't thinking clearly and a car dealer ate your lunch.

>> Right. And so, um, that's the back but

the backdrop is is that you're actually better than the person who went in there and let that happen.

>> But you were you were at a weakest moment. >> Yeah. >> So, we've got to get rid of the weakest moments. And that's him.

>> So, either this marriage starts healing or he's going away.

>> Yes. Yeah. That's the That's where we're at. >> Yeah.

>> But Yeah. Yeah. And I just don't know because my card payment is so is so high and I just don't I want so badly to get out of debt and I just cannot >> I don't want to go out of I don't want to get out of debt bad enough to do a deal with the devil. So he's either coming to the table, we're going to combine our finances and we're going to dream about living a life together and that includes him cleaning up the mess that he's partly caused >> and he'll have to clean up eventually.

>> Yeah. >> This is going to become his problem.

>> Yeah. How long y'all been married?

>> 12 years. Yeah. Well, um I think he's

going to discover the Texas law is going to give you some of his 15,000 a month.

It's called alimony.

>> Yes. >> So, he's he's getting ready to learn some things about how things work if this doesn't get fixed. So, there's a lot of reason here to fix it. For some reason, he came back.

So, he there's some part of him that wants this to go to get better. But part

of it getting better is a holistic healing of your overall relationship.

and then that fixes your car problem.

Um, if that doesn't happen, then um, you

know, then then you've got a car problem that we don't know what to do with. I will talk about the other parts of it, but I don't want you to I don't want you to 2% of this call is your car. 98% is

your marriage. Okay?

>> Okay? >> And that that makes your life good 10 years from today, not your car being fixed problem. Okay? Okay. So, that that I want you to I want you to hear me loving you that way. Okay. So, the um

if if you're upside down, you've got three choices. Um one is pay it down. Uh

two is borrow the difference and sell it from your credit union or from a credit card. And I would rather you have $13,000 in debt than $57,000 in debt,

right? And get a Hoopde to drive for a while. And yeah, if it breaks down, fix it. Shut up. >> Okay. um that that's probably what's going to happen. The second thing that can happen is you just earn enough by working like a crazy person to pay it down and get it under control so you can get it sold. And the third thing is a voluntary repo. Don't do that for two reasons. One is it trashes your credit.

I'm not all about you building your credit, but it trashes it. And two is you lose control of what they sell it for, and they're going to sue you for the difference. So, they're going to sell they're going to sell that car for 30 and come after you for $30,000 of a

deficit with repo fees and everything on there. Instead, you could be 13,000 in the hole. So, a voluntary repo is a really bad plan. Um, I wouldn't voluntary repo ever. I would just make them take it if they're going to take it.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, George Camel is my co-host.

Courtney is in New York. Hi, Courtney.

How are you? >> Hi, good afternoon. I'm well. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question today is um regarding

what is the best way to pay down on my debts? Really, they they seem big. They

seem huge. They seem like it's nothing that I'm ever going to be able to pay down in my life. Um the debts that I

have and my husband um combined, I have my own student loan debt, which is around $200,000.

We have a house together, which is also around 200,000 left that we owe. And I

also have a car payment that sits at 20

$22,000. >> Mhm.

>> And like I said, it just seems >> And who's the doctor or the lawyer?

>> I'm actually an athletic trainer and my husband is a mechanic.

>> You're an athletic trainer. A personal

trainer. >> No, not quite. Um, a little bit different, but more like a physical therapist that works with >> sports teams. >> Um, sports teams. Yep. um emergency care, >> emergency response, >> and and um and you paid $200,000 for that degree.

>> Yes, I did.

>> What do you What do you earn?

>> I earn 76,000 a year

>> before investments and um taxes.

>> Before investments come out.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And your husband Your husband makes what? As a >> mechanic. >> As a mechanic. Yep. He makes around 66,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. And um so we're dealing

with $140,000 worth of income. And um

uh $200,000 house, $22,000 car.

>> You said he has debt, too.

>> He doesn't. The only The only debt he has really is the house that we have together. He has no other cons.

>> So your only debt is a car, student loans, and your mortgage.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. And what part of New York are you in? I've just got New York on my screen. >> Yeah, I'm um actually north of Syracuse.

>> Okay. Okay, cool. All right. Thank god you didn't tell me Manhattan. Okay. Um

>> All right. Uh so good. So you got a good income, >> right? And um so

do you have opportunity to do some side

hustles using your degree your your field >> like personal training and other things?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. How much can you add to your income if you turn that up?

>> If I were to I mean at one point right

out of college I was doing an extra 20 hours a week and I could bring in an extra 1,500 >> if not a little bit more. >> Yeah. Okay. So, you could bring in 1,500 a week.

>> Uh, yes. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Which is $6,000 a

month, which is almost what you make now, >> right? So, doubling my income.

>> Yeah. And your husband obviously can do some side stuff.

>> Absolutely. >> How many kids do you have?

>> We don't. We have a dog.

>> Okay, great.

>> Okay. >> Bad news for the dog. Nobody's going to be home for a while.

leave some food and toys out.

>> So, the the the bad news is you've got this hole. The bad the good news is is you're trying to shovel it with a shovel half the size that you've owned. You have another shovel the same size in the closet. And so, you're going to both of you have the ability to double your household income for a short period of time and use that to clean the mess up.

I mean, if we start throwing $100,000 a year at debt, I think your debt's going to go away, don't you?

>> Yes. >> And that just means that for the next two years, you're going to work all the time and you'll be debtree,

>> right? It doesn't seem that simple, but

I guess it >> it is. There's another part to it and

that part is living on a written budget, a detailed plan that helps you execute tactically the concept of living on

nothing, making a big extra pile of money, and throwing everything in the house after we buy some food, some basic food. We're not eating out. We ain't got time to eat out. We're working all the time. And we're not going on vacation.

We ain't got time to go on vacation. We're working all the time until we get this mess cleaned up. You've been out of

college what, five years?

>> Yep. >> Yeah. Good guess, Dave. Like, you've done this before. And so, um,

I don't want you to go another five years and still be sitting here because you didn't address this, >> right? >> I want you to get after it. like

um in your world. Your world, the good

news about your world is you have been formally trained in um systems and processes that create transformation,

>> right? >> And that's what I'm giving you. So you you your brain already functions the way we teach.

And one of the things, you know, if you have an athlete come in or a

doughboy come in with a dad bod off the street, you you you know that the best

thing you can do is to shock the system,

not to try to do this gradually over 10 years, >> right? >> And that's what I'm giving you. Shock the system and get it over with. Rip the band-aid off. Don't pull it off one hair at a time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that means all guns are pointed to the debt, which means no investing. We're going to pause all the investments. >> Stop all investments. Stop all anything.

100% focus like your freaking life depends on it on this debt. And that's the formula that we have seen transform people's lives when they buy into that.

And the weird thing is the more progress you start making, the more excited you get, the more hopeful you are. Much like if you were coaching someone and they started dropping weight and they started seeing their bench press go up. They started seeing their endurance on the treadmill go up. They started seeing the results of their hard work. Then they lean in even harder. You know what the kind I'm talking about.

>> Mhm. >> Same thing. Same thing's going to happen to you. But it comes from the singular focus. You can't sort of kind of do it.

You tried that for five years, >> right? And I think that's where like my we my husband and I have been really talking about it recently and his thought on it. I I'm with you on the

approach of ripping a band-aid off, taking care of it, and getting rid of it. I think the way his thought process is is that we'll be in debt forever and we're doing okay. Yeah, we live.

>> He's wrong on both counts. You're not doing okay, and you're not going to be in debt forever. I'm not going to let you. It's silly. Don't live like that.

Life's too short. That's a hopeless reason. That's a fatalistic hopeless thing. I'll always be fat, so I'm going to keep eating donuts, >> right? >> It's the same thing. Well, of course you're always going to be fat cuz you keep eating donuts.

>> Gez, come on.

>> You know, this is me talking to me now, right? Little self counseling here.

Yeah. Yeah. That that's it.

>> Donate quickly.

>> Yeah, that's that's how it works though. the parallels in your world to our world because it's personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge. So

hope which is the opposite of your husband's statements. He probably has more hope than his negative statements. But hope

is is is one of the equations in transformation because we have to change behaviors. We don't change behaviors unless we think that they're going to result in a positive result. That's that's that's intelligence. So, you would never go do the hard work if you didn't think it was going to work. The difference is I'm 100% sure what I'm telling you to do will work if you guys will go do it game guns of blazing.

>> The simple part is the math. I mean, you throw six grand a month to debt, it's gone in 37 months. That's the math of it. The hard part. >> Throw 10 grand at 24 months.

>> Exactly. So, that would be the game plan. Let's get out of debt in 2 years instead of, well, I guess we'll just always have a payment in our life.

That's no way to live. >> Yeah. Come on. Let's uh let's set Eeyore out in the backyard and let him graze.

If Eeyore is your spirit animal, people, you got trouble.

[Music]

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And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. >> You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in fishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment.

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>> Dave is in Long Island. Hi Dave. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, right now I I'm I'm considering taking money out of my 401k to pay off my total debt. Right now, I have a total of 35,020

in in total debt. And it's really the credit card that I have that's killing me. It's a 25.8%

APR on it, which is ridiculous. And it's just And it's, you know, >> what is the 35? Give me the breakdown on the 35,000 that debt.

>> Okay. I have um 13,323

owed to the federal government from taxes. Um I have $13,250

owed to Chase. Um that's the credit card. I have $4,99

owed to my car and then I have an additional $1,138

owed to a T to um another TD credit card.

Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> I make um my household income is 205,000.

>> Wow. >> It's a great income. >> Why do you owe taxes?

>> So, when my wife and I were my wife and I have been married for 9 years, we went through a really rough cash probably like two to three years. Um at some point, we were separated and we were just not on the same page. We used to be really um uh really intense about our uh

budget meetings and we would meet every day. We we actually paid we actually were a graduate from FDU.

>> Honey, why do you owe taxes?

>> Oh, the tax because um it was I I changed my tax. I changed my tax to having um to having to being single on my on my taxes. And then when

I tried to change it back, we don't have a formal uh HR department. So they I was

making changes but it was a glitch in the system that kept reverting back to my to a single state.

>> So they w it was not being enough withheld. How long have you owed the IRS?

>> Um like a year and a half.

>> Okay. That interest rate makes a credit card look cheap.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. The great

news is you only owed you you make $25,000.

So, you can clean this up real quickly on your own, but you're you're telling us you want to go borrow more money to pay off the other debt at the tune of 30 40% interest, which is effectively what you're doing from robbing the 401k early.

>> Oh, I don't think I They were saying that the interest rate was only like 5%.

>> Oh, you're talking about borrowing on your 401k, not >> Yeah, borrowing. >> Okay. Borrowing. Yeah, borrowing on it.

So, you're going to try to borrow your way out of debt. You make 205,000. Dude, why don't you just get on a budget and cut it and pay off 35,000 in like eight months?

>> I make $200,000.

>> So, the thing is I'm like talking to my wife and she still wants to keep like putting money aside for our daughter and then her life insurance is also pretty very high. She has um a uh pre-existing

condition that we didn't find out until we until she was giving birth. So, her life insurance is like around $200 a month. And then you know the rent we pay is like is uh 3,50 a month.

>> Okay. You're not doing math well. You make $25,000 and you said she pays $200 for life

insurance as if that was a problem.

That's 2,400. That's 1% of your income.

>> That is not the problem, honey. The problem is you guys are not on a plan.

You're not working together and you're spending like you're in freaking Congress.

You got to stop all investments temporarily and that includes saving for the kids temporarily. And I want you to clean this up in under a year.

>> You make 205,000.

>> That's true. Yeah, you're absolutely right. >> Yeah. I mean, let's do let me do let me help you. 205US 35 is 170.

Yeah, >> you still got 170,000 minus taxes to

live on. Cry me a river.

>> Seriously, >> clean this mess up. Quit trying to find a hack. The hack is in your mirror, dude. You fix the guy in your mirror and that woman standing beside him and the two of us are working together because we want to get out of debt so we can build an emergency fund so we can build our retirement so we can save for our kids and we can become wealthy and change our family tree.

Now we got something to live for. It's time to get dialed in and focused. Y'all just been disorganized and lazy and and distracted by the rough patch that you went through.

And um the good news is is that you called the right people that loved you enough to tell you the truth.

>> And the math on this is real simple.

When you make this kind of money, I mean, if you guys are bringing home 11 or 12,000, could you throw 4,300 bucks a month of the debt? Cuz that's eight months. You're all the debt's gone. You can still live on, you know, 78 grand.

>> 3,000 bucks a month is 12 months and you're done, man. >> So, I think you can do this even sooner.

But you and your wife got to get on the same page, get on a written budget, and go, "All right, spit shake. we're going to make this work. We're only going to cover the necessary expenses. Every other dollar is going to go towards this debt. And I would start with that IRS debt >> for a short period of time. You start with the IRS and then list the rest of the debt, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one.

And let me help you with this. The interest rate on $13,000 worth of credit cards when you pay it off in eight or nine months is irrelevant.

The amount of math on that, the actual dollars that math creates is irrelevant.

It's not the problem. If you're going to keep the credit card for 15 years, a 27% interest rate is a problem. But we're going to keep it for 15 minutes. You need to cut them all up. A TV credit card. Come on.

>> Was that T? I don't know. TD. Maybe TD Bank. Maybe that was it. I couldn't hear it. >> Oh, I thought he bought something off the television. >> Oh gosh. I hope not. >> Yeah, like like shopping channel.

>> People still doing that? >> Yeah, that's what I thought. But yeah, I maybe I misunderstand. I but anyway anyway the great news is you have a small amount of debt in ratio to your income and you can clean this up really quickly once you guys decide that that's what you want to do. If you want to work a different plan you called the wrong place cuz we're going to get you out of debt so that you can build wealth so

that you can change your family tree and

be outrageously generous. You live like no one else so that later you can live

and give like no one else. Steven's in Wisconsin. Hey Stephen, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, I got to hear from you. How you doing today, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> You made my day, sir. You made my day.

So, um I'm not sure if I'm being too intense or if I'm just being intentional. I'm trying to pay off my mortgage, but I have a burgeoning tax problem. Uh 53 years old. I'm 41 months

away from paying from us, my wife and I, my partner and I, paying off our mortgage. But when we do, um, that

$800,000 TSP that I have right now is

going to keep growing. And I don't want to eat a huge tax bill when it comes to retirement, and I don't want to pass this burden onto my kids. Do I I I think I know the answer. And I know people call to get a swift kick in their pants.

Don't worry, Dave. I got thick britches if I need this quick. >> You don't You're done great. How much is in your TSP?

>> 800,000. >> Oh, you said that. I'm sorry. My god, son. You're a millionaire. Way to go.

Well, we also have 1.33 total in

retirement. So 800 of that is TSP. The rest is all Roth.

>> Okay. So 800 is TSP. 500 is in other retirement.

>> Correct, sir. Yes, sir. >> Man, well to go, dude. How old are you?

>> 53, sir. >> Oh, you again. You said that. I'm sorry.

My god, this is great. Well done. Very well done. A 53y old multi-millionaire.

What's the house worth?

So, the house is worth uh we owe $349,410.97.

>> And you and your wife are in agreement on the level of intensity to pay that off in 41 months. Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. We are. She is. She's my partner in this. And I >> What is making you think you're too intense?

>> I I I see that 800,000.

I don't think we're ever going to touch that if we don't have to. We're going to live. Well, I mean, we make $310,000 a year. Um, a bunch of that is my military pens. >> What makes you think you're paying off your house too intensely?

>> Just because I'm I'm giving up one to the other and I don't want to step over dollars to pick up nickels and I feel like >> Oh, you stopped adding to the 800.

>> I have. Yes, sir. >> Okay. No, I would not do that. I would continue to put 15% of my income away in retirement in baby step four while we're working on baby step six. And if it takes 49 months to pay off the house instead of 41, whoopde still add to it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

There's a lot of drama out there right now. And you can cut through the drama.

You know how you cut through drama and trauma?

Dr. Dr. John Deloney says it all the time. When you're in the middle of drama and trauma, use facts.

Facts are your friends. If you want facts on what's really going on in the real estate world, not what your broke brother-in-law's opinion was because he believes in socialism he learned from his college professor, but instead you want to know what's really going on in the real estate world, just go to our website. We'll show you. Ramseyolutions.com/market or you can click the link in the show notes.

And the actual interest rates that are being charged are out there. the actual volume of homes that are listed is out there and the actual median price and the changes in median price of house prices are there.

actual facts are that today we've got

a,12,787

houses on the market in America. That's

the actual number of listings today.

To put that in perspective, which is the only way that number has any value, it's the largest inventory of homes for sale since 2019, prior to

COVID 19.

H more houses for sale. Oh, wait. More

people are looking at houses at any time since 2019. There are more buyers than there are inventory. Anytime there's more buyers for something than there is something for sale, it causes prices to go up, not down. And we've seen prices hold steady and slightly increase in the

last 12 months.

So we're not seeing a housing bubble.

We're not seeing a correction that some of you predicted. And I told you four years ago, three years ago, two years ago, and one year ago, there wasn't going to be one. >> It's the slowest crash of all time, D. >> And I can just It's been six years.

>> When is it coming? Just crash already if you're going to do it. >> Slow-mo crash. Yeah, that's great. Yeah.

Yeah. If you keep predicting the end of the world long enough, eventually you'll be right. But that's not good economics.

Okay. So, >> I change my prediction every year.

>> Yeah. No matter what, economists and weather forecasters, the only people that can be wrong all the time and still keep their jobs. So, yeah. There we go.

So, if you want to learn more about the facts, ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the show notes. We've got the US housing market trends facts, the data

for you to look at and that'll help you make better decisions.

Kate's in Delaware. Hey Kate, how are you?

Good afternoon, gentlemen. How are you both? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, I will give you a bit of background.

Um, my husband and I have been married for 53 years. He's 79. I'm 74.

Uh he has just within the last 5 months

um been designated as 100% disabled

veteran from his time served in Vietnam.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Um so he is receiving now a um our monthly

income normally is 56.86 combined. >> Mhm. >> Our retirement income. >> Mhm.

is now going to be rece well is receiving now um 5,300

>> more >> extra a month. >> So now you got five now you got $10,000 a month to work with.

>> Correct. >> 11. There we go. Yeah. Wow.

>> Pretty much. Yes.

>> Wow. How's he doing? >> What a blessing.

>> Well, he has Parkinson's. He has coronary artery disease. And he has severe dementia. >> I'm sorry. I have been designated his um

fidiciary and I am designated as his

primary care >> provider. Um and it's all good.

>> Yeah. >> It's just a different season in our life

and we are trying desperately to handle it with dignity and grace and most of

all humor. >> Yeah, I hear you. And so what how can we how can we best >> how do you get >> what I want to know Dave is

how do I best

put into savings this VA money that's

coming into us because it will be have

to be used for his long-term care eventually.

Um, but I need it to be in something

that is giving me more than just my stupid savings account, which it's in now. Um, >> do you have to have immediate access to?

>> Do you do you guys have debt?

>> I have worked our debt down to eight a

little less than $8,000, which is two credit cards. >> Wonderful. Okay, first thing first thing we're going to do is pay those first thing we do is pay those off. Second thing we're going to do is build an emergency fund. Do you have any savings?

>> I have $23,000.

Good. >> In savings. >> Okay. All right. >> So, do I take >> And that is what I've been putting in from his um $5,000 he's getting.

>> Yeah. Okay. I want you to take some of that money and pay off the 8,000 as soon as you can. Okay. Not the 23. Maybe the 23. I don't care. But some of the pay in the next couple months, use these checks to pay off the 8,000 for me. Okay. Now,

you don't have any credit cards and you cut them up. Okay. Now, you just build the savings up as high as you can build it. And um

>> yeah, because >> what kind of vehicle should I have it in? >> Probably a high yield savings account.

And um uh do you guys have a mortgage?

We do. Our mortgage is about is it is

230.

>> Um our house is worth 850.

>> Okay. >> So we do still have a mortgage. My our monthly mortgage is$,940.

>> Is there any um life insurance that has been added with this military package that he just received?

>> Interesting. You should ask. I just checked into that yesterday. They are offering him whole life. >> No, we'll pass >> at a regular at a pretty steep monthly.

>> No, I think we'll pass. >> And I've listened to you long enough to know that that's not where to go.

>> It's not the mil it's it's not the military that's offering that. It's a company that's that milks the military that's offering that. But what I was asking is they they're not furnishing him any kind of federal program with the

disability that includes life insurance that they pay for.

>> That is correct. >> Okay. I was afraid of that. Okay. All right. So, we've got two goals. Okay.

Goal number one is we're piling up cash in a high yield savings account to take care of him >> and his care. Okay. And I want you to keep that in home. I want you to keep that inh home as long as you can by hiring people to help you in the house using some of this money.

That's going to be your least expensive route and your highest quality of care route cuz you can be the advocate and manage the situation. But don't be afraid to use some of the money to hire somebody to help you.

>> Good. Perfect. And then our second goal is um you're you're going to outlive

him. That's statistical. And um so then

what how are we going to set you up later and get rid of this mortgage? And that's our second goal. Okay. So,

>> and how do I do that? >> Um there's not any any magic wands on this, but I just want to be thinking towards those things because the best thing I can do is get rid of that mortgage long term. short term, I'm more concerned about you taking care of him and you um and using your $11,000 a

month because you guys don't spend anywhere near $11,000 to live on.

>> We our monthly expenses excluding

groceries and gas is 4,800.

>> Okay. Well, with groceries and gas, you can you can make it on your first number and your second number's been going in the bank. That's what you're telling me?

>> Yep. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> Here's what we're going to do. Okay. I'm going to set you up with a Ramsay coach that's been trained by us as our gift.

No, no cost. Okay. >> Oh my gosh. >> So that cuz somebody can walk with you cuz you need somebody in your corner.

You have been uh an amazing 53y year

wife and he served his country and they waited till he was 79 to bless him with

the disability that was deserved probably 20 years ago. And so we're going to take care of y'all, okay? As best we can. Again, Kate, we don't have any magic wands, but we're going to set you up with a Ramsey coach to do what I can't do on in this setting, which is continue to stay with you and make sure that you're cared for. And you got all the answers and do the very best we can with this extra money now. Wow. Thank

you. Thank you for being who you are, Miss Kate.

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Adam in New Jersey. Dave frequently mentions that teaching is one of the top occupations of those who achieve millionaire status. I have three children in high school and I want to present teaching as an option for them.

My question is how do they become millionaires on a teacher salary?

Great question. So he's referring to our millionaire study we did of over 10,000 millionaires and we rank the careers and

the first one was engineer >> followed by accountant followed by teacher. This was the third career in there. >> Yep. Followed by um business executive

followed by lawyer. MDs didn't make the

top five. They were number six. Just as a thing. So the answer is interesting, Adam. Um you're you're falling for the classic

belief that um income creates wealth.

More that the only way you become wealthy is have a huge income. And as we

studied, George told you over 10,000 millionaires, onethird of them, 33%

never made over $100,000.

So the secret to becoming a millionaire is apparently not just having a larger

income. Now, it doesn't hurt to have a larger income. It's not a bad thing, but it's not the only way to get there because onethird of America's millionaires did not become millionaires because of a high income.

And that apparently is the teacher answer, right? So, what does work? What does work is time and consistency.

$100 a month.

$100 invested from age 25 to age 65

at the S&P 500, which is the average of

the stock market rates is $1,176,000.

$100

per month from age 25 to age 65.

So the secret there is they didn't miss a stinking month for 40 freaking years

and $100 makes you a millionaire.

So the answer is not the amount. The answer is the consistency, the steadiness, the predictability, the discipline, the stick with it. Time and consistency,

not dollar amount, are the primary

indicator. So, if you want to be a teacher and you want to start saving at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. You want to be whatever and making under $100,000 a year and you want to be a millionaire starting at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. But these teachers did not start then.

Most of these teachers started teaching straight out of college and they immediately signed up for their retirement programs and started putting money in every month and it was more than $100 even back then.

freaking seventh grade social studies

and they put money in every single month and they have a 30-year career and it's more than $100 and they've got more than a million dollars in there. Oh, and by the way, they got married and their husband or wife was doing the same thing. So, it's not about, you know, we always hear these ridicul people like, "You're crazy. That's impossible.

Teachers can't you can't make it out of teachers." I listen, you can get mad about it, but it's data.

We didn't make these freaking numbers up. It's not a philosophical argument, you idiot. It's a math thing. You argue with math, you end up looking stupid.

And so these people whailing and nashing

of teeth on Tik Tok that somehow we need

to tax the billionaires. What you need to do is get off your own little butt and get out of your mother's basement. That's what you need to do. And then you can go be somebody, honey. That that's the difference. And so this is how teachers do it. Steady time and

consistency. And it's magical. You know, the first time I saw that I was like 21.

And I was 20 21 years old.

>> When you saw a compound growth work >> when I saw that you could be have $1,176,000 at $100 a month from age 25 and I was 21. >> Wow. >> And I thought I got four years on this.

I can do this. I can do this. You know what I did? I didn't do it.

>> It sounded cool. >> Instead, I went and tried to get rich in real estate and, you know, flipping houses before there was cable TV to tell you how. And I went broke doing trying to get rich quick because I was too stupid to do time and consistency. But the thing that we did discover, Adam, and I think I always because I I was a little bit shocked too when we got the data in, we had several aha moments from

the data on this research that we did not see coming. And one of them was teacher is in the top three. Didn't see

that coming. I would not have predicted that. So you got account, you got engineer, accountant, teacher,

business executive, lawyer. We could not

figure out what was driving and MD is not there. They're number six. Medical doctors number six. Now, medical doctors get there generally because they out earn their stupidity.

They're not generally good with money stereotypically. Okay? There's plenty of them that are good with money, but a lot of docs are just straight up stupid with money. It's not unusual at all. But the other five categories, what we did finally figure out as we sat and brainstormed through what in the world is happening here? All of what do they all share in common? They're all process people.

Okay? There's one way to build a bridge if you're an engineer that it doesn't fall down.

There's a set of mathematical calculations that span that beam that keep the building from falling in. If you put that size beam up, it doesn't fall. You put that size beam up, it does fall. Engineering is not art.

It is science. You have to follow the process or people die. You have to

follow the process or the building falls down, the bridge falls down. Okay.

Accounting. There's not an artistic element to accounting. There's generally accepted accounting principles. You either follow them or you're wrong.

It's called GAP. Okay? In the accounting world, GAP, generally accepted accounting principles. You either do accounting properly or you get the wrong answer. It's a it's a math thing. It's a process. So, find the rules and follow the rules. If you're an engineer, find the rules and follow the rules. Process driven people. If you are an accountant, if you're a teacher, you have a lesson plan. There's a process. You lay out exactly how we're going to handle this classroom. We don't make it up as we go.

Mrs. Doubtfire is not your teacher.

Okay? That's not how this works.

Teachers are process people. Now, some of you think they're they're otherwise and they're loving and they're kind and they are. The good ones are those things, but they're also driving toward an end result of you actually getting an A on the exam because you freaking learned something while you sat in their classroom. That's what teachers do. They drive a process. They're project driven and the kid is the project. Okay? Uh

guess what? If you're a business executive, same thing. Business acumen demands certain principles be followed.

If you're a lawyer, try going before the judge and making up things in the law.

The judge will throw you out. maybe put you in jail for contempt.

Uh they will sit you down counselor, right? There's one way to be in front of

a judge. There's one way to do litigation. Follow the law. Follow the

system. It's a process. And so you submit yourselves in all five of these

um career paths. You submit yourself to

a proven set of truths. The law of gravity is this. If you jump off a building, you hit the sidewalk. And guess what? personal finance is the same thing. You're either going to live on less than you make or you're going to be broke. You're either going to live on a plan called a budget or you're going to be broke. You're either going to invest money or you're going to be broke.

There's really no options here. And the more you stay out of debt mathematically, the more money you've got to invest. The steadier you invest, the more money you're going to have over the longer period of time. Period. There it's a process. The stuff we teach is very the baby steps. We don't let you violate the baby steps. Why? It's just like accounting. You don't violate it.

It's a process. Follow it. It works.

It's called common sense in our world.

We call it a lot of different things. We laugh about it around here, but that's the reason these teachers do so well. Is they're process people and they're not trying to flex either. They're not trying to impress anyone. They're trying to survive running a chaotic classroom.

So, it's that simple. You make 50 grand, invest 15% of that. That's 625 a month.

You'll have $4 million from 25 to 65.

And that's if you never get a raise. >> And so if you're half wrong, they only got 2 million and never got a raise

because it's a mean old school board and people don't love teachers and it's horrible out there in society. We pay athletes more than we pay teachers. Oh my god.

But keep investing.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. George Camel, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today.

Nick is with us in California. Hi, Nick.

How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, so, uh, I I I've been working with a lot of your stuff. Went to part of a course at a church, uh, for you about 10 years ago. Uh, finally started out toward the goal of, um, working the baby steps here. And, uh, hurdle number one arose, which was, uh, my my wife didn't

really want to participate in that. And

um so I I've been going it somewhat alone

and I've worked baby step one and two

and and started into baby step three.

And uh each time I get my my emergency

fund built up, crisis ensues.

And um a lot of the crisis really isn't

crisis at all by definition. It's self-inflicted because one of us isn't on board. Uh okay, that makes sense.

>> So, uh we have 11 kids. Um four four are

grown and out of the house. Uh nine dogs, seven cats, and a tortoise. Uh

most of those were kind of brought in against my will by my wife and my kids.

And uh but here we are.

>> You have how many dogs?

>> Nine dogs >> with 11 kids and a tortoise >> and seven cats.

>> And seven cats. Yeah. What circle of hell have you created?

>> How do they even coexist?

>> That's right. >> What does your house smell? >> The only the only one that's got a chance is the tortoise, >> right? Because it sleeps for 6 months out of the year. I mean, that that's one

easy life. >> Is Is this real? Are you punking us?

>> No. No, this is real.

>> So, your wife started a petting zoo just for the family. >> Everyone's got their own animal. That's good. Everybody's got two.

>> Plus, yeah, plus we have some alternates. Absolutely. >> And you have 11 children. Children like humans. >> Uh, human beings. Yeah. Four are grown and out of the house. So, we're down to we're down to seven in the house now.

>> Seven, nine, seven, and one. I got you.

Okay. >> Yep. Yep. So, >> so how can we help today? Pret So, so,

so recently two of my dogs were incarcerated for biting a neighbor dog and >> talking.

>> Yeah, I know. And uh you know I my

knee-jerk reaction was to surrender the dogs uh which is an awful outcome because they're they're probably going to be euthanized. And um it's not

because I don't love them. It's because in in the end of the day I knew this was going to be an expensive endeavor. Um we

are now to where we know what that what that endeavor looks like and it's about $4,500.

So, the dogs are in a pound because they bit the neighbor dog >> and they want $4,500 to get them out.

>> Is this bail? Well, >> uh, kind of. So, about 2,000 of it is is

fees, but they also want this this very elaborate uh housing situation with

concrete and attachments and roofs and and all of this stuff. So, uh, that that

part of the endeavor be about 2,500 of those dollars.

uh or or they will not release the dogs out on parole if you don't if you don't build them a proper home to suit the uh dictates of the county in California.

>> Correct. >> So, you're going to get them out of prison to create your own prison in your backyard for them to live in.

>> Ironic, right? >> Mhm. >> This doesn't sound like a good life either way. >> Oh, man. >> And is there a chance they'll they'll bite again? >> Oh, yeah. Well,

>> if you were in that situation,

>> I mean, I want to go bite the neighbor's dog myself now at this point. But, uh, >> man, I would move if I was your neighbor. I don't know if I could live next to a petting zoo.

>> Wow. >> That's a lot of barking.

>> Yeah. And and the problem is is that uh at this point, they don't have to bite the neighbor's dog. All they have to do is get out and they're gone.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're wondering, do you have $4,500?

Yes, I do. >> And you're wondering, should I spend this to solve this problem because I I would hate to see them potentially get euthanized. >> Okay. I um >> it's sad that the dogs are caught in the u the whirlwind hurricane that is your

all's lives. Um and so as you said that

you that you all have created. And so,

um, the the thing is I I don't mind spending money on something if, um, especially my dogs. I love dogs. Uh, if

I create a sustainable situation,

okay? And if I'm not if I'm not kidding myself, in other words. So, I mean, there's a th000% chance that these dogs

are going to have a problem again, no

matter what you do. And um and that they're going to be taken away. This is not a sustainable environment.

Do you agree?

>> Yes, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, you're throwing good money after bad at that point. But what you do need, what you do owe those dogs is to create a better environment. you and your wife have to be more responsible about how you're handling all these decisions. And um that's just it's not

fair to the animals. It's not fair to your kids. It's not fair to the neighbors. Um I mean, you've created an

environment here that's not that's not manageable. It's so the chaos with the numbers you gave us. We can joke and say the tortoise is the only one's got a chance, but it's the tortoise is the only one's got a chance. And so, um,

yeah, this is not a, um, a healthy situation. And I think the local authorities are telling you that in so many words, uh, with their with their mandate to you. It sounds very bureaucratic, and it sounds like they've overstepped uh, bounds, but it is California, so wouldn't be shocking or anything for them to be out of control with regulations. Shock. But um you know

there are I got to tell you there there's people in rural settings all across America right now listening to this shaking their head going puppy ain't going to make it. That's what they're saying. Um because no matter where you what you do with puppy here, puppy's in problem and puppy's going to cause a problem. And so it's um

you know it's your all's job to maintain control over these situations. And you haven't because you've created an untenable situation. Man, I'm sorry.

>> Yeah. >> It's also a big liability. I mean, if that dog bits bit a human, well, there's a lawsuit on your hands that could crush you guys. >> It's heartbreaking. Yeah, >> man. >> Yeah. And um Well, I mean, yeah, it's it's real. Yeah. Um so, I'm I don't know

what to tell you, Nick. I I think the the sad thing is is that this whole thing is so bizarre and so out of control that the dogs being in the pound is is a minor thing compared to all the

rest of things you guys got to deal with. That's just um man, I'm sorry for

the dogs, but they're they were put in a situation they couldn't win. >> Yeah. >> And um and they they were put there by you guys because you allowed it and your wife encouraged it. And um you guys ought to fix that. you really should.

It's not It's not fair to the humans involved. It's not fair to the animals that are involved. And so, yeah, what to

do with the particular puppies, I don't know. But, um, maybe get some clarity on what the next steps would be.

>> Maybe you can find someone to adopt them and take them out to an area where they can thrive. >> If they were rehomed on a farm somewhere where they're not going to hurt anybody. >> Exactly. And where they're not put in a situation where they feel like they have to hurt somebody, >> that changes everything, >> man. >> So, Wow. Those dogs got to be on edge.

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Hey.

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Kelly is with us in Canada. Hi, Kelly.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, George. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey, I um I want to know the best way um

I've had my head buried in the sand for a number of years. Um, I want to know the best way to um reestablish trust with my wife after a gambling addiction and recombin our finances after a number of years.

>> How long have you been clean?

>> Uh, about six and a half years.

>> Okay. Well, that's that's substantial.

um you know to continue to hold um

something against you from a decade ago um that she's agreed to continue to live

with uh is not logical. So you begin to prove and prove yourself. The way you rebuild trust is is consistency over time. Okay. You become trustworthy

worthy of trust. >> And it it sounds like you've done that.

Is there some other thing you're doing that's giving her causing her to be insecure?

So, um I think for the most part it's

just me just not knowing how to approach this. I've just kind of uh started listening to your podcast, uh got your YouTube channel, all that stuff and binge watching it. And I just like I've become scared and I I just I I

don't I think she I think it's more about how to initiate this and what's the best way like like do we just start combining our finances now just just go

into it head on or do we just do that slowly? So, let me ask you this. Um, I

think I'm hearing you say, uh, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm If I'm reading between the lines incorrectly, tell me because I'm not positive. Okay. Um, it sounds like that you may still be dealing with shame from six and a half years ago.

>> There's a little bit of that. Yes.

>> Okay. That's fair. A little bit would be fair. Um, I deal with a little bit of shame from having lost everything and filed bankruptcy in 1988.

>> Um, okay. >> So, that's, you know, that's real. It's back there. But the further in the rearview mirror it is, the smaller it is. Agreed.

>> Agreed. And that's, you know, so I don't

um have the same hesitation 30 years later that I did 3 days after filing bankruptcy discussing something and expecting my wife to trust me >> and trust just trust my judgment. I'm an idiot, but trust my judgment, right? You know, and that that's where we started.

And then now from there, we've become we went through a phase where a lot of America was listening to me, but she wasn't.

And then we finally she caught up, you know. So, >> but uh that happens to everybody. But, uh but yeah, that that and that's that's just fair is what I'm saying. When you make a mistake, I think um I'm thinking of atomic habits that James Clear wrote and he he talks a lot in there about forming habits. And the way you change a habit is not a forced discipline gritting your teeth and white knuckling it. It's changing your identity by saying, "I am not a gambling addict. I'm

a person who used to gamble six and a half years ago and doesn't anymore.

>> Yeah. >> I used to be irresponsible with money.

I'm not a person that's irresponsible with money anymore. I used to be a person that was overweight and ate outrageous amounts of volumes of food and now I'm not a person that does that anymore.

I'm a person I'm a fit person now. Now I'm a person who eats reasonable amounts of food. Now I'm a person who's responsible with money. And you change your vernacular around it. uh which kind of is a shame dealing with mechanism. I I thought that was really interesting. I filtered that through my own experience with the shame of filing bankruptcy and I so uh that helped me. So anyway, all that to say um I a good way to approach

a relational conversation of any kind whether it's at work or your spouse or your kids is if something's awkward

or feels weird just say this is awkward

and it feels weird.

>> I still feel honey. I still feel a little bit of shame from 6 and a2 years ago. I may be more worried about me than you are at this point, but I'm also

learning all this stuff about how important it is that we combine finances. And I and I I don't even know how to ask you to trust in this situation, but I think we ought to talk about it because it's weird for me to say it out loud and it makes my stomach hurt to have this conversation. And if you said that, she's probably going to go, "I'm not worried about it. Let's do you know, or she's going to tell you the truth and tell you what's going on >> and maybe say, "Hey, can you help me brainstorm some ideas of things we could do, some next steps we could take that would help us get back to a place where we do have unity with our finances?" >> Yeah.

six and a half days ago, >> six and a half years ago, that she do combine finances with you. I'd recommend that she manage all the household finances and keep your hands off of money until you've proven that you broken a gambling addiction.

That's exactly what she did. We did start off with combined finances and she had to she had to >> she had to manage them all. Yeah. That's the way you that's the way you handle an addiction if you're going to stay together. It's the only way that works.

So, um but now I I really think six and a half years uh from a practical standpoint. I'm not a counselor, but I I'm I'm fine with you combining finances wholesale if you've really been dry and you're really responsible in other areas of your life. and the the fruit of your life, your behaviors make a statement about where your character is. And then I I think you should do it.

let's do that for 90 days and then we're going to combine the accounts if that works.

>> Okay? >> And that's a way to ease into it. I don't know that you need to do that though, unless she's resistant.

>> No, it's more about me, I think.

>> What is the latest conversation been like with her around this or has there been nothing for six years?

>> No, the latest conversation is that okay, like through all the turmoil, um

we we actually separated for uh about a

year, got back together due to financial reasons, we couldn't really afford two separate positions. Mhm.

>> And then the just recently I just said,

"Hey, we like do we want to do this for the rest of our lives or do we actually want to separate?" And we actually started talking about staying together for the rest of our lives. And

the finances weren't part of that. So,

and in terms of the finances though, it's more about okay um we just kind of

handle our own things separately, but we kind of but we're not doing like proper

budgeting in my opinion. >> You're you're yeah, you're losing some synergies and you're losing some of the oomph the oomph forward that you could get were you to completely combine them.

So, I think it's worth talking about and probably worth doing. Um and I I'm going

to recommend you guys just walk head on into it. Um, but I I get that there's a

tender place. Uh, there's scars and you

know, uh, again, I I it was a little different scenario, but we lost everything. The water got cut off. The electricity got cut off. There's babies in the house. She would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, that's that's where we were. And so, um,

you know, so when we do anything with

money that makes her that triggers those old wounds, I can see her the shape of her eyes change.

>> I start to see that that that terror look that like two tours in Vietnam look come back over her kind of type of a thing. And it ain't good. And so I go,

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We just went somewhere we don't need to go. Let's push pause right here and let's talk this back through again and let's just wait a minute. we don't have to do anything. And uh by the way, you understand that there's 83 times that amount of money over here in this other account. So calm down. You know, it's

like, okay, okay, okay, I can breathe again. Had a little panic attack there and uh look at the facts. >> But that's that's normal. I mean, if if he did anything that looked like a gambling action, it would activate all

that pain in her. So any kind of scheme he comes up with, whether it's I'm going to do this real estate thing over here, I'm going to >> if it sounds like he's playing blackjack, you know, if it sounds like he's throwing the slots, if it sounds like he's playing craps in his the way he's handling his vernacular, he's not doing that, by the way. Everything he said to us was real sober, >> very his language, he had sobriety

language all over him. It was really good. But um yeah, that's what you're facing, guys, when you want to rebuild trust. By the way, great book on trust.

You're trying to rebuild trust. a lot of relationships working on that for different reasons. Henry Cloud's book called Trust uh how to regain trust, how to build trust, how to reclaim trust, all of those kinds of things. And it's excellent, excellent book on that [Music]

[Music]

Well, it's here.

I'm amazed at how I shouldn't be amazed.

It's It's always one of the prettiest products that we do. One of the best looking products we do. The 2026 Ramsey

Gold Planner is here. And uh this thing

is it's we always kind of just turn the creatives loose and let them play in the sandbox. And they do an incredible job building this thing out. It sells out every year. We only print 10 or 15,000 of them and they sell out really, really quickly. Um, it's an expensive item.

Usually our stuff is, you know, $20 books or so, $30 books or something.

This is like a $50 item, but we do the pre-sale on it starting right now. The 2026 gold planner 35.97

for a limited time. After Labor Day, it's going to go up. So, if you want it now, now this thing consists of each month starts with a devotional from either Rachel Cruz, Jade Washaw, or uh

John Deloney. Are you you're not in here, right? >> No, I don't think so. Okay. You can only fit so much in there. You don't want to cram it to be a 500page.

>> That's right. And you're you're kind of wordy that way. So, all right. So, then each month has a uh one has a two-page thing where it's open to the month and then after that each week has two pages

and you go through the week and then you start a new month with a new devotional and it and it helps you track every single thing in your daily goals. It is extremely welldesigned. This is many many years we've been doing this thing and it continues to be a huge seller.

So, if you have an interest, we'd love to have you. Again, grab the go ahead and grab your pre-sale before Labor Day because they're going to go way up. Uh, it is an expensive product for us to produce, as you can imagine. It's a beast. And, uh, it's not only gorgeous, but it's there's a lot to it. So, the Ramsay Gold Planner for 2026 on sale until Labor Day, 35.97. Click the link in the des in the description or go to ramseyolutions.comstore.

Devin is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Devin. How are you?

I'm well. I'm well. Thank you.

>> Good. How can I help?

>> So, I have a kind of unique question

here. I work for a company and I've had

a lot of success and um you know, making a good income, but I want your opinion on what I should do about a vehicle. So, they are offering or you know, they offered me a vehicle that I essentially have to rent from them. Uh it's $300 a

month that they take of my paycheck. Uh

so I'm wondering should I go along with that and you know essentially lease this vehicle into perpetuity or should I buy

a vehicle?

>> You need the vehicle to do the job.

>> I do. Um so I I have two cars.

>> I'm in sales.

>> Okay. And so you're you have to have

like a van to sell the stuff out of or what are we saying?

>> No, no. You know, it's just a fair amount of driving and um you might have to go look at uh customers sites. It's it's businessto business sales.

>> Okay. But you don't that you don't have to have the car the the vehicle is not particularly equipped. It's just transportation to get to the job.

>> No. No. Right. Yeah. It's just a vehicle. >> You can drive anything. You can drive anything on it. You can drive anything.

>> It's a Toyota. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> will they give you the money regardless?

>> They're charging 300 bucks. >> They're charging him 300 bucks for the use of one of their vehicles.

>> This is a bad deal, man. They should be >> Wait, wait a minute. What all does it include?

>> Uh unlimited fuel. Um so, you know, I can drive it on vacation. My wife is allowed to drive it. Um you know, we can use it for for person like, you know, any kind of person. They're covering all They're covering all maintenance, tires, fuel, insurance, depreciation, everything.

>> Yes. >> And there's no boundaries like a normal lease would have, >> right? Yeah. There's no, you know, limited miles or anything.

>> That's all in writing. >> I can't drive it.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. That is a a benefit because it costs you more than 300 bucks a month to drive a car >> for insurance because they're covering insurance too as part of that 300 >> insurance, repairs, tires,

fuel, loss in value during putting miles on it. It's costing you a lot more than 300 bucks to drive. >> They're basically subsidizing it and charging you a portion. >> Yeah, >> they're losing money on this transaction.

>> No, listen to me. They're losing money on the transaction.

Yeah, is that it is a small car, right?

That's the only car that they offer. Um,

and you know, if I if I did buy my own vehicle, I'd get a slightly larger one for my family. Uh, you know, I've got a wife and two kids and one uh one that's due here at the end of the week.

>> But you you have a car for your family, right?

>> We do. We have a we have a paid off um

Ford Explorer. >> Yeah. It's all >> put your family in that >> miles on it. >> Or save up some money and buy a car for your family because you only need one car because you're getting one car from work. >> You said you had two cars right now, right?

>> I do. My other one is kind of a more of a farm use. It's a old 2004 Toyota Tacoma.

>> Okay. I mean, you could sell it and the Explorer and use the money piled up to get a better car for the family, right?

>> Farm use. Are you in farming? I >> only Um, just as a hobby. I have I have a few cows and pigs.

>> Okay. >> You probably need a pickup. Yeah. Okay.

All right. >> My only dilemma is that if if I decline

the car or if I turn the car back in, they will pay me 70 cents a mile up to

7200 miles a year. So that's, you know,

$5,000 a year. Um,

>> which is $400 a month.

plus that 300 that I would essentially

get back in my paycheck.

>> Oh, see? Yeah, that's true. So, there's a $700 swing.

>> Okay. Well, the way you do the calculation is this. All right. You you figure out what car you would drive and how many miles are you putting on it a year?

You know, >> uh with work and and personal alto together, I'd be putting probably close

to 18 18,000.

>> Okay. All right, that's not too much really. I mean, that's about average, actually. So, um, yeah. So, for 700

bucks a month, it how much value can you

lose in a car? Because whatever you buy is going down in value, right? So, how much is a buy $20,000 car in, you know,

in four years, it's going to be worth $10,000. So, we got to say, all right, two 25,500 bucks a year, 200 bucks a month in loss value. That that's about what you're going to have. Something like that. Okay? and you pay cash for the car, whatever it is, and it's the minimum car that will get the job done because you're, you know, a little bit bigger maybe, but other than that, it's just reliable. And then, can I buy insurance, repairs, tires, and gas

for the remaining 500 bucks a month? I don't know if you can or not.

Not sure you can. I'm not sure you're going to break even on this. So, um, uh,

but if it doesn't, you know, you're right. Hey, there's a $700 swing. So, how much I know you can't drive an expensive car, and I know you can't drive a car with debt.

The numbers don't work, >> right? >> Okay. So, whatever you drive, you have to pay cash for, and it's probably 10 to $20,000 car for the numbers to work. And

then you've got to run some numbers, do some calculations, and figure out what the repairs are, what the insurance is, and then divide it out and go 700 bucks a month. That's what I got to work with. 7,200 bucks a year. Can I operate this vehicle for that? I don't know if you can. I mean, with with 350, $4 gas. I

mean, I don't know if you can or not.

>> I started doing research on cars with the lowest insurance cost, cars with the lowest maintenance and start from there and see what they're actually going for >> and the lowest depreciation >> cuz you're just going to destroy this car. So, you don't want anything that's, you know, brand new that's going to go down in value. So, I'd get it used where someone else pay the depreciation and you can maintain it at a reasonable cost if you're going to go that route. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's the the $300 is not a

horrible deal. I can promise you that.

It's not a horrible deal. But if you want to buy something and and go the other route, take the mileage and save the 300. That gives you a $700 swing as you said, then um you know, you got to make the numbers work in 700. If the numbers come out to be a thousand, you're losing 300 bucks a month to drive

your own car rather than drive theirs because you want a little bit bigger car. Um, wouldn't do that. Wouldn't do that. That's like having a car payment. I'll pass. >> Yeah. I wouldn't combine your personal goals with this. Just see it as utility for work. What makes the most financial sense. >> Good point. Very good point.

[Music]

Our scripture of the day is Psalm 119:114.

You're my place of quiet retreat. I wait for your word to renew me. Ronald Reagan

said, "Peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means." Ooh, pretty

good there. I like that. Curtis is with us in Texas. Hi, Curtis. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. I have a um question about my car.

I have a $26,000 Tesla and I wrecked it.

I didn't have insurance and the fix on it is $13,000.

I currently have $6,000 saved and I just

don't know what to do moving forward.

>> What does it take to repair the Tesla?

>> Uh $13,000. And I found another place

that said they could do it for $9,000 without fixing the uh front bumper. But the front bumper don't need to be repaired. What's Why did the front bumper need to be repaired at the other place?

>> I got uh cuz Tesla themselves, they don't uh they fix everything. They don't they can't just fix one problem.

>> Okay. So, they want to restore it.

>> You have a a body shop check it and you had Tesla dealership check it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, you can fix it for 9K and you got 6K. Why were you not carrying insurance, Curtis?

>> Isn't that the law in Texas?

>> No. Not Not Not collision. Not collision. liability only.

>> Yes, I only had liability because at the time at the time I uh I make a decent amount of money, >> but at the time I had just got out of jail and I had to pay all that that stuff and I was just getting back on my

feet and I the insurance was the bill that I chose not to pay.

>> Ouch.

So, note to self, don't drive $26,000 car with no insurance.

That's >> when you're broke. >> Yeah, I understand that. >> Yeah. Okay. Because I mean obviously killed you, right? I mean, you buy a lot of insurance for this N grand.

>> So, uh, what do you make?

>> I make about $7,000 a month.

>> Okay. And how much was your insurance?

>> Uh, $450.

>> Okay.

All right. Was it a DUI you were in for?

No. Uh, it was a drug charge I was went

to jail for. >> Okay. So, that that didn't affect your insurance then. That's what I was asking. All right. Um, >> I know. >> Okay.

All right. So, your question is whether to fix the car or not.

>> Yeah. I don't know what to do. I was thinking about um just going to buy a cash car and sending that car back, but I don't know how that works, that process work at all. >> No, that's called that's called repossession. No, we don't want to do that. What do you owe on the Tesla?

>> Um, about 24,000.

>> Okay. All right. No, you need to fix it, hun. Um, and you're going to scratch up the other $3,000 to do it because you don't have the money right now. Is it drivable?

>> No, it's not drivable.

>> What are you driving?

>> I'm driving a rental car.

>> When'd you wreck it?

>> I wrecked it about two months ago. So, I've been in and around for about two months. >> Wow, that's expensive. >> And how long is it going to take to repair it? Because I've I've heard some stories about Teslas taking a long time to get fixed up.

>> They said they said about four weeks.

>> Okay. >> So, even when can you start the repair now and pay it in four weeks?

>> Yes. >> Mean, would you have the other $3,000 to go with your $6,000 so you had nine in four weeks?

>> Yes. I have I have enough that I don't know if I do take cuz I get paid monthly

for my VA check. I get a housing lounge and also work and if I take my VA check

to add on to it, that would leave some bills not paid. >> No, you got to pay all your bills first.

>> Yeah. >> But can you scratch up 3,000 out of the seven you make in the next 30 days?

>> I think I could.

>> Okay. I would make it my life mission to do so and start the repair now. >> Well, don't start the repair until you know you're going to have the money. Okay? >> Okay? >> Because you can't you can't then you got a car sitting over there. You can't pay the bill that you promised to pay. We don't want to create another problem.

All right? So, um I want you to have the your hands almost on the $3,000. You need $9,000 in your account or very close to being in your account before you start the repair. And then you need to start the repair as soon as possible and then get the repair done. and then get the Tesla sold.

>> Okay. So, fix it and then sell the car.

>> Yeah. Because that gets you out of it.

You can't get out of it right now. You're stuck.

>> Now, if you didn't fix the front front bumper, what do you think he sell for?

>> That's nine. He can fix it for nine.

>> He won't get the front bumper fixed for nine. >> Yes. No, he said 13 if he takes it to Tesla, nine without the bumper at the other place. So, nine fixes it and you got six in the bank, right?

>> Yes. That's what bumper not really that that much damage. Only reason they know is that the bumper the front bumper was hit at ours cuz Tesla got the candle fixed. >> Okay. I'm just making sure it's not going to decrease the value when you go to sell it. >> No, you got to get it sold for 24 so you can get out of it at the end of the story and get your life back. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And then never drive a car without insurance again. When you're broke, it makes you broker. So everything compounds then and you get in a bigger mess and a bigger mess. Mary's in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi Mary. How are you? >> I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for for talking with me today. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Pretty big life decision in my mind that

I'm hoping to get your input on. I had

the opportunity to go from a

self-employed government contractor to a

full-time employee with the lead agency that that um the grant that I work for

is supporting. >> Mhm. And the the big thing that I think

is keeping me on the fence is my age. Um

I'm 59.

We are on baby step five. Ideally plan

to have the house paid off in the next four years. >> Good. >> Yes. Thank you. Um thanks to you all.

>> What are you making as a contractor?

So my gross is 87 right now annually

which includes a 30%

fringe. So that is built into that 87

for me to self incorporate, pay my own

taxes, my own insurance, all of that.

>> Okay. So 87 minus you pay your own expenses. >> Correct. >> Okay. Gotcha. And so the uh full-time

gig that's not contract, what are they offering?

So 30% less than that. So it's b my

gross would be 60 63 and change.

>> Okay. And are you you're not you're not coming out of pocket for that much.

>> I I'm sorry, Dave. >> Okay. You're not your fringe is not costing you that.

>> 30,000 bucks. 20 20 $24,000.

You're buying your what? your own lot your own health insurance, right?

>> My own health insurance. I am self-funding my own retirement, so I'm

putting 20%

about 18,000 a year. >> You're going to be doing that anyway.

>> I think 15 I can do at the new at the

new gig. >> They're going to match. They're going to give you some match there, but they're not doing it for you.

>> Correct. >> So, you uh retirement you got to do

anyway. It's it's a that's not you're not saving that. That's not a fringe you're saving. So what's the health insurance cost?

>> So for employee only, they pick that up.

>> No, no, honey. I mean your current current cost >> right now it's 600 a month.

>> Okay. So you're not on your husband's plan?

>> No, he is retired on Medicare.

>> Okay. So 600 a month. So seven grand.

All right. And the um what else is the

fringe? half your tax on it is 765 tax

because you got self-employment tax versus they're covering the W2 tax, right? >> That's right. >> Yeah. So 7% would be another 7K.

That's 14. All right. Uh what else?

>> I think the big thing is frustration

right now with the whole marketplace.

>> Well, I mean it's 10 it's a $10,000 pay cut. It is. >> That's a lot of frustration >> and you are right and that's why I'm I'm wanting somebody to kind of walk me through this. >> Yeah, I think >> math says stay. >> Yeah, ma math says stay on contract. Um,

you know, unless you think that the risk is so high with the frustrating marketplace that it's not that it's not going to be there anyway. So then we're not comparing apples to apples anymore.

So, um, I'm a big self-employed guy.

Sorry. I'm always going to lean that way unless there's a math reason not to.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 9. A Written Plan Will Always Keep You On Track | October 9, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union

studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside my buddy George Camel.88255225

is the phone number.88255225.

[Music] We'd love to hear from you. We're going to have some fun today. George has got his favorite denim jacket on and that tells me he's ready or >> not fooling around today. >> No. Uh cuz when you get up in the morning and decide this is the jacket, I always know you're bringing it. >> Yeah. I am impervious to criticism when I'm wearing this denim jacket. >> Very exciting. Anderson starts us off in Atlanta, Georgia. Anderson, how can we help?

>> Good afternoon, Ken. Good afternoon, George. So, my question, thank you again for taking my call. My question is, I'm currently on baby step two of the

and my partner and I are on our collections on our debt collections, and we currently have three credit card collections that are seven months old.

one that's 3,200, another one that's

3,800, and then the last one is uh roughly

3750.

And we're trying to we're not really sure how to deal with collectors. This is our first time doing this, so I'm not really sure what's the best way to approach them. Should I settle in full

or should I pay them all the um all in full or should I just settle?

And I also have I also owe the IRS 4,200

and I was I was thinking of stopping the

oring the death snowball and knocking that out first before I go in go into collections. So what's the best way to approach those things?

>> Well, I'm glad you know your numbers. It sounds like life was chaotic for a little while there. What happened that got you guys to miss all the payments and and going to collections and missing the tax bill? What happened?

Yeah. So last year we we were just

fooling around going just traveling and uh really looking over our money and

after traveling we just we couldn't pay the credit cards. We we funded all the traveling with the credit cards, all the

expenses, uh going out, everything,

groceries. We funded it with the credit cards and after a couple of months we couldn't pay it. And then we just let it let it ride until we couldn't pay anymore. And then this month they sent

us a mail saying that we owe them this

amount which is 3,200 for my lady. And

then they they sent me two mails saying that I owe them those amounts. Also, last year, uh, I was working at a 1099

where at a construction company, and this year the the bill came through that I owe the IRS 4,200 >> because you weren't setting aside money for taxes. >> Exactly. Exactly. I was just spending it because I didn't really know how to how to manage that money because it was just I didn't know I had to set aside 25%

until the year ended and I'm like, "Oh, shoot." And that's that's just what happened. And now I don't have 4,200. So I'm trying to knock it out. >> Yeah. Well, you're right. The IRS debt is going to come first.

>> Okay. >> So, I would just, you know, if it's in collections, there's no payments. Just leave it. You haven't been paying it anyways. Let's leave that alone and just stack up that 4,200 bucks to get Uncle Sam off our back ASAP. How quickly can you do that? If you do nothing else, you and your partner, you're not doing anything except keeping the lights on and paying the IRS.

We will probably we'll probably knock it out this Friday once we get paid.

>> Amazing. Okay, good. Then once all that's done, you can start talking to the to collection agencies and you can try to settle. Now, here's the thing.

I'm a fan of having integrity and going, I signed on the dotted line. I went 3,200 bucks into debt to go on this trip. I'm going to pay the 3,200 bucks.

If the debt is old enough and they're willing to settle, you might shave off some some money there, but 7 months is not an incredibly amount uh long amount of time. So, you're probably on the hook for what you owe.

>> Okay? >> In that case, I'd start not, you know, be honest with them. Call them and say, "Hey, listen. I don't have the money now. Here's what I can do, and here's when I will have the money. Are you willing to settle in full for, say, $3,000?" And never give them access to your checking account.

>> Okay? >> So, you can do like a money order, a cashier check, but don't just give them direct access to your account because they will take the money.

>> All right? >> That's all you got to do, man. It's not fun. Uh, and part of it is just being in denial about it. So, just start tackling them. Get the IRS one knocked out and then you can kind of debt snowball the collections as they go and see who's willing to settle. And again, your goal for the next 6 to 12 months is just knocking out these debts and then getting your emergency fund in place and never doing any of this again.

>> Thanks for the call, Anderson. Let's go to Sam in Casper, Wyoming. Sam, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I'm a big fan. >> Thank you. What's going on?

Yeah. So, I'm uh going to buy a truck now and I'm sort of uh stuck between a

rock and a hard place trying to decide how much to spend. Um you know, I'm a

I'm a fisherman. I I make good money and I've done a good job saving. Um but I'm trying to figure out, you know, between spending uh 3540,000 on a truck or, you

know, something a little older, something with a little bit more miles, you know, 20,000.

>> What's your income?

So, as a as a fisherman, it's variable, which is kind of making it a little bit hard for me. >> You're a full-time fisherman.

>> Yes. >> Okay. In Wyoming, >> typically.

>> No. Uh, that's where I spend my shoulder season. So, >> I had to ask. I I had to ask. Okay.

Well, give us give us how long have you been a fisherman? Uh, and and then what have you made kind of on average so that we can pin down a number because that's going to dictate our answer.

>> Yeah. So, uh, on average, I've been a

fisherman about five years now. Okay.

And of course, it's it's a a boom and bust industry, but typically in the close to $100,000 range. Um, of course, self-employed, so you've got all those taxes to deal with, but >> All right, George, tell him about our for All right, so we've got a formula.

George, walk me through this.

>> So, the the goal here is we're going to pay cash and we're going to make sure that everything in our life with wheels and motors doesn't add up to more than half our annual income. So, is this the only thing in your life or are there other I mean, you've got a boat involved now. That's more for business. >> Uh, yes. So, I'm actually not the owner.

I'm I'm just a hand on on deck.

>> Okay. So, you don't own a boat. You just So, what do you need the truck for? >> No. >> If you're not hauling, >> I've got no other >> Yeah, I've got no other uh debts. Um, so I need a truck. Uh, really? Cuz I, as I'm thinking through this, I'm sort of at the tail end of my uh career in that,

you know, fishing becomes a hard job to do. uh as you as you get older. Um and and as I'm sort of planning through my next life steps, I'm I'm thinking something you know along the lines of uh

you know contracting or building or or it seems like everything >> Sure. So what's the timeline for making that transition?

>> Uh I would say definitely within the next by the time I'm 30.

>> How old are you now?

>> I'm 27. >> Okay. You're already on the cusp of retirement. Well, from fishing >> is it? I mean, >> no. No. See, you be careful, George.

You're gonna get in trouble. You've not watched all these shows that I've watched, all these fishing shows. I watch these shows >> and it's hard work. >> Let me refra Sorry, let me rephrase. Uh, not retirement by any means. Uh, retirement from fishing.

>> Yeah. No, I got it. I'm I'm tracking with you. We don't have a lot of time left. So, so real quick, um, what are you driving now? Give me the 10-second answer. >> That's it. I I I just sold our truck, so nothing. I don't have a vehicle.

Okay. How much money do you have?

>> Yeah. Uh I've I've been able to save uh

you know uh I guess like $35,000 in

cash. >> Does that include your emergency fund?

>> Yes, included. >> Okay. We got to separate those two out.

Let's get the emergency fund. Then anything above and beyond that becomes the car fund money. >> What's the number, George? I'd like to see them in the 25 or less range.

>> Let's wait until you know what you actually need. So, right now I get a used older truck. Probably 20K. I was going to say the same. We don't need a truck for a business that doesn't exist for three more years. A car though, we need [Music]

>> If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fair Winds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just

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That's fair winds.org/ramsey.

Insured by the NCUA.

[Music]

Jane is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Jane, how can we help today?

>> Well, um, thank you so much for taking

my call. Sure. And I have a little difference with my husband over budgeting. Okay. and um he his idea of

budgeting now we are both he's 73 I'm 66

we're debtree we have a little bit of savings and we have some money invested but I feel like we need to be on a dollar for dollar you know every dollar where it's spent budget to get us through these retirement years that are coming up because we're not really set financially to travel and do the things that I was hoping we could do in retirement and my husband's idea of a budget is um that you spend less than

you make. >> Yeah. >> And I wrote you guys about that because I wanted an answer and you know that's where we are. We are debtree. I appreciate that he doesn't spend. I mean neither one of us spend a lot but there's always a lot of tension over what's spent because we don't really know what's going out and I just >> it's a lack of clarity.

>> Yeah. And he listens to your radio show.

He's the one that says we got to be debtree. we got to have this much money put away. We got to do this before we can retire. This is what Dave Ramsey says. So, I reached out because you're someone he listens to and >> Well, but but when Yeah. And I appreciate that. And I guess he's listening. Is he in the room with you?

>> No. Oh, >> we did we did set it up so he could be, but he is in his office doing something else. >> That's convenient. That is convenient.

you know, be before we dive in, I I just

want to know what his response is given

the setup you just gave us that he that he talks about us. He, you know, he's like, "Hey, let's get debt free." So, he's he's on board with a good bit of it. So, when you say, "I feel tension.

Um, I feel we need to go dollar for dollar." What is his response?

>> He gets extremely uh I don't want to say

volatile, but yeah. I mean, he gets very very angry with me because I won't say that spending less than what you make is

uh a budget. >> Are you guys been married? >> What is a budget? >> Yeah. How long you guys 28 years.

>> 28 years. >> 28 years. >> Okay. Uh and the reason I asked that is what's your best guess >> as to why he doesn't want to do it that

way. He to the point that he gets agitated. What do you think is behind that? You know him better than anybody.

I so a little backstory. Um this is a

second marriage for both of us and Bruce lost his first wife to cancer >> and he thought he had saved up the money and they had a plan and it was and it was all devastated. I on the other and the reason I'm pushing for the budget is because as a single mom and I was this school teacher um I it was it was um

Larry Briquette back then who was shared with me how to set up a budget.

I'm not sure you do either. Uh I appreciate that information, but there's something emotional for him >> around the idea of sitting down >> and going through the specifics, the details.

Um and and I'll give some insight because I hate that. Uh it's just something about my spirit. I feel like I'm a wild mustang.

Uh and and and I just how I have always been. I don't like anybody telling me what to do. I just really don't. And and

I've had to fight that. And but also to learn about it. And so he's got to get to a place where he realizes, oh, this is why I don't like it. And it doesn't

excuse it, but it does get him to a place where he goes, I still have to do it anyway. In other words, I don't like going to the dentist, but I got to go do it to keep these pearly whites healthy. All right. So, there's just there's a tradeoff on some of these things, but I'm going to make a suggestion, George, and I want to bring you in here on this, and I I don't know what you think about this, but based on the fact that they've been married 28 years, they're very frugal.

They do live unless they make, they got no debt, and he just has an aversion.

If you're Jane, you're very aware of the finances, right? You have full picture of it. >> Yes. Yes. I'm going to suggest that you put together a budget for him. Now, I'm

not saying that's the long-term play, but I think initially, George, I'd like to see Jane come to him and go, "Hey, I know that this creates tension for you.

I'd love to know more why, and I don't want to do that, but this is for us." And so I've attempted to do a budget and I'm trying to take all the yucky icky out of it and go here's my first pass

and and present it to him and see how he does with that because it may just be the idea of sitting down talking it out,

hashing it out and maybe he's an editor.

>> What do you think on this? >> Well, we always say one person's going to make the budget, the other person's job is to mess with it and screw it up.

You know what I mean? That's that's how you create some teamwork. There needs to be some give and take here. And so I do think showing him a budget that reflects reality that says, "Hey, listen. You're going to have fun if that's his hold up is that we're not going to have any fun if we're on a budget." Put the fun money in there for him to where he gets to spend his 500 bucks a month, whatever it is. And that way he realizes that the budget is really permission to spend.

And I think right now he just sees the budget as well, as long as there's money left over in the bank, we're doing okay.

And yet you both go, "Well, the trip feels frivolous." Well, how do we know it feels frivolous? unless it's in the budget, right?

>> And then also, have you have have you really dug in like Ken mentioned to go, what's behind all this? Is it because of baggage from the past? Is it triggering a difficult time for him?

>> That's what I Yeah. And that's the part I really don't know. He's very private.

>> What is your household income?

>> Uh, it's about 120.

>> Okay. And that's all retirement, nest egg, social security.

Well, that's his I'm still working. He's on social security. I still work.

>> Okay. And are you wanting to stop working?

>> Well, no. I have a dream job. I'm a principal of a private school. That's amazing. Great. With 45 kids.

>> Come on. That's great, Jane. It's It's I

mean, my plan has always been to work till I was 70 because I know my social security will be higher then, and that was kind of what I we were banking on.

um he has worked up until just recently.

So he was also working and at that point I mean in the last two years we've probably put like 30 to $40,000 in our

savings. Now we've spent but then we were able to generate that much savings because we don't have any expenses.

>> Jane, I got to tell you I I appreciate you calling. I don't think this is a crisis but I do think that the concern that you have is legit. But I will also tell you the reason he's not wanting to do this is some type of a fear. I guarantee it. Yeah. And I don't know that it's a massive fear, but I can't put my finger on I can tell you this. If I talked to you for five minutes, I could absolutely tell you what it is. I really could uh because it's a fear.

>> Well, he just walked out of his office.

You want to talk to him? >> He finished his sedoku puzzle. He's ready to talk to us. >> No, he was talking to somebody.

>> I think this would be good if we can get him. We We We may have to hold you. We'll put you on hold here and get this set up. But if he's willing and and here's the thing. I want to make sure you know this. He needs to feel safe.

This is not an attack, >> not a gotcha. >> And he needs to know that I'm like him when it comes to budgeting and the process. I don't enjoy it, but if he'll allow me, I think we can dig in and find out what he's afraid of and what causes the emotion. And I think it's going to help you guys. >> I think it's going to unlock something in your marriage and for your future retirement. >> Is he willing to do this? Because I know we're catching him off guard.

>> Well, he just heard you say the word afraid and he made a funny face. I don't know. Would you be willing to talk with them? >> Oh. About what?

>> About our budgeting and >> I love him already. >> Great. Poor guy. We're catching him right in the hallway.

>> As long as they realize I guess I'm blindsided. I don't >> No, he's not blindsided. This is going to be fun and positive. >> Yeah. Please stay on the line. We want to deal. >> We We'll put it put you guys on hold, okay? And you guys discuss it and Christian will verify this. But this is not a gotcha moment. We are for him.

This is not an attack. Uh, but I think we can uncover as a guy who doesn't like this. Uh, and I'll tell you what my fear is going into this. My fear that has always made me resistant to the sitdown part is I don't want to disappoint my wife. I am a recovering people pleaser.

>> Oo. And uh, so there it is. I'm leading

folks. This is not a gotcha thing. We see if we can get a little breakthrough for this couple. Uh, and if not, we'll move on. >> If not, it was entertaining. All right.

So, we're talking. We'll figure it out.

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All right. So, uh, we're going to go to Jane and Bruce now. We're going back to Jane. She's got Bruce and we're on Bruce's team. Bruce, are you there?

>> Yes, sir. >> Man, I want to tell you something. Thank you for doing this. This is People are going to love this. Number one, it's going to help some dudes. Two, I'm on I am normally like you for years. I hated the budgeting process and uh I just

didn't want to do it. So Jane called us and you know what she talked to us about. So I wanted to ask you a real quick question as we know you're waiting on a service call at your house. Don't want to miss that. Um what do you think

creates tension for you? What what do you think's behind I have a fear behind mine and it's a fear of disappointing Stacy not being enough. If if the budget doesn't turn out the way I want to we can't do. So, I have always avoided it.

Okay. Now, I don't anymore, but that was my story. And I'm trying to make you feel safe because your wife really wants to go through the budgeting process. We encouraged her to put a budget together and let you just be the editor. You don't have to sit there and construct it, but not we just wanted to know because I think it'll help you and her.

Do you have a sense of why it's a

negative emotion for you when when the idea is discussed? What do you think it is?

I don't have any uh negative

uh feeling on uh a budget. I budget in

my head so far. I don't see any problem

that has risen of not having a budget.

>> Okay. Yeah, you guys have done well.

Now, to be fully transparent, Jane told us that when she brings it up that you get upset.

Well, I mean, if she wants to have a

budget, let her have a budget. I mean, the only thing I would say, uh,

you can't like yesterday our car went

down and it cost $1,000 to get it

repaired. So, where in the budget, you

know, was that?

>> Well, that's that's in the emergency fund, right? >> I know. If it's and we have $10,000

emergency fund, if we don't need

or we need more, our roof is uh going to

be needing replaced. That's $20,000.

So, we go to our next one, which has I

think 2020,000 in it, and we take out

$20,000.

Um, >> so you're talking in terms of emergencies right now, but what about everyday spending? What about the fun stuff, the vacation? She wants to buy a $1,000 purse. Are you going to, you know, raise some eyebrows at that?

>> Oh, I as long as it's uh uh we're paying

for it, there's no problem with it. If you start taking out a savings, then I

have a question about that. Does it?

When you take out a savings, it needs to

be something that is above and beyond

our needs. >> Right. >> And is a $1,000 purse um a need or a

want? If it's a want.

>> Well, you said earlier, Bruce, you said, "Well, the budget's in my head." Right?

You said, "The budget's in my head. What's the problem?" >> And I'm going, "Well, Jane can't read your mind. I feel like the picture of the budget in your head versus what's in her head are two vastly different things and there's invisible tension there.

>> Okay. Maybe she has tension. I don't know. >> There you go. >> I haven't. >> So, you're okay. You're okay if she brings you a very detailed budget and says, "This is my first pass at it." And you're okay looking at it going, "Uh, I don't think we need to put this over here. I would say it over here." you're okay going through it line by line,

dollar for dollar, if she puts the first draft together.

>> Um, I don't know. If I've got time, I guess

I could >> I thought you were tired, Bruce.

>> No, I'm tired.

>> Oh, you're just tired. >> I'm not He has time. He's just exhausted. Yeah, >> I still have work to do. Um,

>> you don't have five minutes though to look over her budget that she worked really hard on.

>> Um, I looked over it uh maybe 20 20

years ago. >> Okay. All right. We got a 20-y old budget. All right. >> If she wants to budget the expense for vacations, let her budget it. >> All right. Jane, are you still with us?

Are you listening to all this? Jane, >> do we have Jane on the line as well?

>> Yeah, Jane is here.

>> Okay. What do you think about everything he just said?

>> Well, I think that what he's saying and what y'all are hearing and what he's meaning are like different things.

>> It's a game of telephone while we're on the telephone.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the reality is I hear

I don't know that Bruce necessarily

understands like here was my take when we had when I had a budget way back when forever ago.

You put aside, let's say, $10 a month

for vacate for fun. Okay, you might not spend it this month. That that means then you bank it in and now the next month you have like $20, right? But then the third month you might need something that's $30. Well, because you didn't spend those first two, you have it. So that at the end of the year, you end up balanced all the way across. So that is

my idea of a budget. So that would mean like the car he's talking about that was an emergency but we would have had an automotive piece going out >> a sinking fund for you know vehicle maintenance and repairs to where you didn't even need to touch the emergency fund. >> Exactly. So we wouldn't have touched that all year but then woo October we need that money and boom that money goes in. So I think in a way that's what he's

calling a a savings which it is but it's

not budgeted that way. So, it's this

unknown. So, then when I do say, "Hey, I'd like to go on this vacation." Well, what are we going to give up in order to do that? Because at that moment, he wants it all to be balanced. And it's it's not because >> So, you're wanting to plan ahead.

And he goes, "Well, it either comes out of our emergency fund savings or it's not going to happen." >> Okay. >> Right.

there's a vacation. >> You want some more labels on this and he's going, "Well, it's just all in my head and we'll figure it out." And if it's in savings, that's great. And to his credit, >> I forgot to go. >> Oh, service calls there. Okay.

>> Service call. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

>> You're a good man. >> You're a good man. >> Work down the road. Thank you.

>> Work with her. Byebye. He's got to go see the Rotorooer guys. >> That was fun. >> Uh, you don't want that to not happen.

You got to make that priority. I get it.

Like Bruce, there's Bruce is a man of priorities. >> Bruce is paying everyone in the neighborhood. He's got the car repair guy, the service call guy. I get why he's stressed. >> Jane, we're with you. So, here's the deal. I think having talked to Bruce.

Thanks for doing that, by the way. Jane, you still with us? >> Yeah. >> Okay, this is great. So my my insight in

listening to Bruce is Bruce is a man of his ways and nobody else's ways are going to get adopted and he's at this point 73

and like >> can we be honest and I love Bruce and I'm honoring Bruce, but there's not a lot of change in Bruce's life that's going to happen. >> All right, >> you're right. >> I know >> he's not going to go start yoga tomorrow. >> Like and I love Bruce. Like I would love to just throw lots of topics at Bruce. I think Bruce would be a great podcast guest. I think he's I think he's got a lot of salt and vinegar in him. >> He is the Clint Eastwood of budgeting.

>> He really is. So So you're going to have to lead the horse to water. You you remember that old phrase, you're an educator. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think >> absolutely. >> Uh what we already said you got. But I would go this route. I would pick one major item that's causing you stress and I think it's the vacations, the trips.

>> Yep. >> And I think I think they're okay. Great.

I think you got to go. I We want to go to uh Bora Bora and it's going to cost

us 15 grand. I'm making this up. All right. >> So, you lay all of those powers of

influence and persuasion that only a wife has on Bruce and you say, "Bruce,

you went on the show. You told George and Ken, uh, she can budget if she wants to." That's what he said. I'm only business. And so, you know what? You start pulling money aside. You do the line by line. stick it in front of him and make him edit it. If he doesn't edit it, then by by osmosis he approves it

>> and you start putting 500 bucks, a,000 bucks, whatever you want to a month away to Bora Bora. And I think we lead Bruce to water at which point Bruce drinks.

But to explain to Bruce why we should go to water, why we should have a cool drink, Bruce isn't having it. He's never going to have it. >> He's too tired and he just doesn't care.

He's tired and he's got to take care of the service. Guys, >> you have to care on behalf of Bruce, Jane. That's the truth. >> You got to care. We love Bruce, >> but Bruce is Bruce and you're amazing, Jane. Thank you for that. I think that helped a lot of couples. >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

>> All right. I hope the air filters and everything get changed. Uh, you know, the sprinklers. I mean, Bruce is on it.

We got to get some stability in this house.

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[Music]

All right, folks. As you know, uh, the Fed just cut rates for the first time all year, and the 15-year fixed mortgage rates have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. So, if you're financially ready, now's a great time to buy or sell. And I can tell you this, if and rates are kind of popping around, so depending when you hear this, you know, obviously things change. But I will tell you this, here's why this is a great time to buy if you're prepared. Because if mortgage rates do drop, demand is

going to increase. people are going to get off the sidelines and that's going to drive prices back up. So, while mortgage rates, if you look at the last five years, are higher than they were, they were at all-time lows and you're sitting there going, I'm just hoping, I'm praying to the mortgage rate fairy.

It ain't happening. All right? Because as mortgage rates drop, you're going to see housing prices go up. So, the point here is sitting on the sideline if you're ready, is not a great move. Um, and you're going to need to have a pro, a Ramsay trusted real estate agent on your team buying and selling a house, major transaction, maybe the biggest financial transaction most people ever make. And so, you want to make sure that you got a pro walking you through it.

You can find one for free at ramseysolutions.com/agents.

Ramseysolutions.comagents.

And by the way, if you uh not sure how you're doing on the baby steps, we also have a quick quiz called, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Takes just a few minutes. You'll get a a personalized plan uh so that uh you know where you are and can keep that momentum that's in the show notes. Just click on the link. Are you on track with the baby steps? Emily

is up in Dallas, Texas. Emily, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um honored to speak to y'all. Um, my

question is about I know interest rates just dropped and are possibly expected to drop again soon. I'm curious. Um, I

would like to we would like to refinance to a 15-year mortgage. Um, but if rates

don't drop below what we currently have, 5.75, would it make sense to recast at least

and just be paying less in interest? Um because we've put down an additional about 30 grand on our principal in the past couple of years.

>> Way to go. And so you currently have a 5.75% rate on a 30-year.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Have you actually gotten a quote yet to see what it would be to get a 15-year? >> No, I haven't. Okay. Um I played around on calculators online.

>> Yeah. And they can help if you contact our friends at Church Hill Mortgage. they can run the numbers for you and show you what's called a break even analysis to show you how long it will take you uh for this to make sense.

>> Okay? >> You know, they might say, "Hey, you'll get a 5% but it's going to cost you this to refinance. So, a year from now or two years from now, you will break even and then be it will begin to make sense." And the recast isn't going to do anything except lower your payment. It's going to keep the loan length and the terms, the interest rate.

Mhm. >> So the way the recast would work is you make that a big, you know, lump sum payment, they lower your payment down.

>> But if you're following the Ramsey plan, you're knocking this mortgage out. It doesn't matter if it lowers at 500, but you're throwing 500 extra versus a $1,000 payment, the same amount is going to principal.

>> Okay. >> So what is your goal right now? Just to lower the payment or pay it off faster?

>> Uh both. Um yeah, we're newly in steps

four, five, and six. And so I just stare at that mortgage payment all the time and it just makes me mad how high the interest is versus principal >> what's left on it. >> Just figuring out >> 368.

>> Okay. And are you guys in 456 where you're tackling the mortgage throwing extra at it? >> Yeah. Yes.

>> Okay. And what how what's your track right now to pay it off early?

>> Um I haven't really looked into that much. I kind of I know I did something wrong. I was paying extra on the principal while we were in baby step two

>> um still um just because I hate how high

it is. But um now we're fully in 456 and

just started contributing 15% and

>> um so we've been paying I've been paying

1,500 extra a month towards principal

and we are three years into the mortgage. >> Okay. I'm so proud of you guys. You're making great progress. >> Yeah. Yeah, the refinance can start to begin to make sense as these rates drop.

And so I would just get in touch with our friends at Church Hill Mortgage and uh see what the rates are currently at on the 15-year. It's going to be lower than the 30-year in general. But again, based on the timing, uh who knows? But hopefully if you can save at least a percent or more, I think the break even will start to look a lot better.

So best of luck to you. >> All right, real quick. Imagine a whiteboard here, George, behind us. This is what I wish we had right here in the studio.

Get a whiteboard out. >> You love a whiteboard. >> I do love a whiteboard. Love a quick lesson.

I want to make sure people understand this.

not mean that your mortgage rate moves with it. All right? So, mortgage rates, people who set the mortgage rates tend to follow the 10-year treasuries. So,

the yield, whatever the yield is on a 10-year Treasury, on our 10-year Treasury, is what you're going to see rates move. So, as of today, the yield

is flat. So, you're going to see mortgage rates probably hold pretty steady to where they are. So, I just wanted to I want you to speak to that. I I want people to make sure that >> when you see all the news, Jerome Pow and the Feds meeting, everybody's paying attention that does not have a direct I

mean >> it can somehow it does it's related but it is not directly related to keep there's generally a delay. They're not going to happen tomorrow. It might be 30 days 60 days out. And it's important to also know a 15-year and 30-year mortgages, they also fall into different buckets. That's correct. In the industry, 15 years are seen as more of a short-term. Yeah. Versus 30 years are more long-term. And so, it follows different treasury yields. That's right.

So, you'll see that just because the 30-year rates move doesn't mean the 15s are going to move with it. >> That is correct. >> That's important to note, too. But I wanted to just crunch some numbers.

Oh, I like it. >> This will be fun. Like, they said their home value, she said they have 368,000 left. Is that right?

So, we're going to just crunch some numbers here to show you uh what that would be like. You know, let's see if we got the down payment. All right. So, 15-year fixed with a rate of 5 a.5, you're looking at $3,900 bucks for a monthly payment.

But if rates go down to, let's say, 4.5%, it's 3,700 bucks. So, it's about $200 in savings a month with a rate change like that.

that plus interest, you could save a lot of money over the length of that loan.

But again, if you're following the Ramsey plan, you're attacking that mortgage with a vengeance, you're not going to get hit with as much interest.

You know, when I paid off my mortgage, instead of paying six figures in interest over the course of even that 15-year loan, we paid less than 10,000 because of us aggressively attacking it.

>> Yeah. So, okay. So, play that out. So, when people try to play that mathematics game, well, I'm I'm not paying as much interest, uh, but I'm also forking out a lot of cash. I'm playing devil's advocate here because I know you can handle that. But I mean, let's play that out. What what what's the response to that argument? >> Well, generally the thinking is, well, I have a low interest on my mortgage.

Therefore, I'm going to keep my cash invested. >> Right. >> Now, the chances of you having the mortgage payoff amount sitting in a savings account, slim to none.

>> Right. >> So, those people don't have that narrative. >> Exactly. The Now, go look at the amount you're actually paying in interest on what's called the amortization schedule, >> and you'll see that most of it is going towards interest in the beginning part of your loan.

What's beautiful about the 15-year loan is that a lot more goes to principal a whole lot faster. So, you're making way more progress way faster when you do the 15-year uh fixed rate mortgage. So, that's a beauty of it. And plus, when you think about a 30-year loan, it's double the time, which means you're paying double the interest except a little bit more because generally 30-year interest rates are going to be higher than the 15.

>> So, a lot of nerdery there. >> I love it. Trivia question for you related to this topic. Uh >> oh.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Question and then I'm going to make a statement. question is, what do you think the new average age in America is for a first-time home buyer?

What do you think it is?

>> It is 38. >> Wow. >> 38 years of age. Now, before we go doom and gloom, I was thinking about this. I heard this this morning. This is fresh.

It's fresh. >> I can tell. >> Like the hot now sign of Crispy Cream. I mean, I heard it this morning. I love fresh data. I'm sitting there listening to this in my car and I go, "You know what, Ramsay? Our new crusade ought to be just if we could abolish anything, it would be student loans.

>> Because I got to believe that student loans are, if not the primary factor, a major factor as to why we're seeing that age of the first-time home buyer jump up. Do you agree or disagree? >> 100%. Think about this.

>> Oh boy. So, I think the reason we're delayed, yes, the housing market, yes, the economy, but also crippling debt.

>> That's what I think. >> Larely due to student loans. >> This is why I would get rid of the federal student loan program, private schools. I would abolish it all together. I would actually make the universities raise their own money to pay for tuition. >> Let's go. >> Oh, boy. I'd change America, folks.

>> I think we see a big price drop when the government isn't backing. >> Lots of good things would happen.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Congress ticket. Coleman Campbell 26.

Who would vote?

It's better than most options at this point. We'll win.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman.

So excited to have you with us. Let's go to Katherine who's joining us in Milwaukee. Katherine, how can we help?

>> Yes, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's an honor to talk with you. Um, my husband and I are

big fans, so he listens to your show every day. Um, I'm calling to ask a

question about whether or not it if my

husband can um quit his second job. Um,

we make a total of 118,000 a year. I

work very part-time as a nurse, like a couple shifts a month. Um, he works a

full-time job as a he just got promoted as a supervisor at a factory and then a

a credit credit analyst at a local bank.

Um, and we're just he doesn't have a very good work work life balance and it's very taxing on me and we have a 2-year-old daughter and um just trying

to figure out a good balance to see if

if we can if he can um

quit the quit the job as an a credit analyst to just have a better work life balance. >> So give us the breakdown how much so how much is he making at each job? Sure. So,

at the uh supervisor job, he makes 87,000.

Um at the credit analyst position, it's 265.

>> And how many hours a week is he at the credit analysis or whatever that is?

>> Yeah. Um 20 hours

>> in addition to the 40 he's working on the other deal.

>> Yes. >> Is it hourly rate?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So what happens tactically if he

walks away from the second job making 26 grand over a course of a year

>> practically. So yeah um we spent we uh

spend about our total um spending that

we spend is about 4,500 or yeah 4,500 a month. We are renting.

We're saving for a house. Um, and if he

would just uh work as a supervisor, it'd be about 5,000 a month um

>> coming in. >> So, yeah, 5,000 a month coming in.

>> So, I mean, that's that's a pretty big hit to you guys. I mean, obviously just the 26,000 alone is is over two grand a month. And he's there because you guys are trying to save our house, get out of debt, right? The whole nine yards, >> right? Yes. >> How much debt do you have left?

>> Uh, we don't have this. Oh, we don't have any debt. We just are saving for a house. >> Okay. How long would he have to work

um the two jobs to help you guys get uh

let me ask that differently. If he stays in the second job, at what point will you guys have saved? How long will it take to save what you need for a house?

>> So, right now we have about um 100 150

saved um for a down payment. Um, and

we're just waiting for the right house.

So, we're just trying to save and pay off our like once we get a house, we want to pay it off as fast as we can.

Um, >> what kind of house are you guys looking at? What's the price point?

>> Um, between in this area in the area

that we're in, um, between 350 and 375.

Okay. >> Um, but we're willing to go lower.

>> All right. So, let's go back to this. So, so my question was,

how long is he going to have to work this second job to hit a number where you go, this is the right number, or is it just to infinity? Because the way you answered it was kind of like you didn't give me an answer. >> Is it when you find the right house? Is it when you hit 200,000 in down payment savings? >> Because this plays into our advice on the question that you asked, which is, can he lease? >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, he when he worked the numbers,

he said it would be about a year. Um, so it would be like next year >> and that would get you guys well over 50% on a on the on the house that you were talking about the price point, >> right? >> So he wants to work for another year >> and sock that 26,000 or whatever away

and you're going, I'm at a breaking point. Am I understanding this right?

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I want to bring in my colleague because he's probably the tightest person I've ever met in my life. He's so tight he squeaks when he walks. That's pretty tight. He's not my shoes. >> And I could see him being in this guy's shoes. Whereas I'm going the your hubs

needs to listen to you and you guys are more than fine on a down payment.

>> George, uh I feel like this is suited to you. What's What say you?

>> Well, the the major problem here is that you guys never set a defined goal, >> right? >> It was just kind of like, well, we'll just keep doing this and nobody really knows why anymore. And so I I think we need sort of a realignment to go, hey, we did this for a long time. We're out of debt. We don't need the gazelle intensity anymore. We do want to get in a house. We're clearly not in a rush cuz you're not just picking up any old house. You want it to be the right one.

You have $150,000 saved, which is incredible. That's an amazing down payment.

>> And so now I think we need to reassess and go, "Hey, I need you at home more.

I'm I'm drowning over here. You're not watching your 2-year-old grow up. like there's no need for this level of sacrifice at this stage of the game. And maybe that means we compromise a bit.

Maybe you pick up two more shifts and he scales back from the part-time job so you guys can still hit a goal that you guys decide on. But I think right now there's just no clarity and that's that's breeding some of this tension.

>> That's a really good great analysis. How does how does that sit with where you are? Does that feel right?

Um I would say that the one thing is like so I work as a I'm a registered nurse and I also have a few um health

concerns and so I'm trying to like

manage myself like manage stress management and so I'm trying and my goal

is to stay at home with my daughter. Um,

and my husband is respect like respects

me for that. Like he wants me to stay home with her. Um, so it's just trying to find that balance of him being able to be home with us. Um, and then also me

not working, I feel like it's like a

it's a hard balance. >> It is. So So let's address this because I'm hearing a husband who is he's as tight as George is super saver. He wants

to work a whole another year to keep adding to that amount because this guy doesn't even want any kind of house payment, which we appreciate and love.

So, good on him. And then you're going, but I want you home. And then you're going, but I also I want to come home full-time. And there's nothing wrong with that either. And that's great. But now I can tell you right now that stresses him out because you're bringing how much home every year through your nursing job?

>> Um, it's about 600 a month.

>> Yeah. But that's a lot of money to him.

>> That's going to freak him. I mean, below the surface, you coming home and him.

So, now we're going to one income.

>> And I'm just going to tell you, you guys are going to have to get on the same page emotionally. You're going to have to be honest with each other to go, I'm worried about this. This is what freaks me out. You got to go, I want to live like this.

This worries me if I'm working all the time as a nurse and I'm not home. All these things have got to get out on the same page of paper and we're going to have to decide what does that mean? So you may not be able to come home as soon as you want to if we want to pay the house off because if he's going I don't feel good with you coming home if we got a house payment. I'll do what I got to do but I got to go work and you go I don't want you to work a second job.

Something's got to give George >> and the budget will be a referee.

What's it going to look like when he makes 87 and that's it? Can we make this work? Can you do that tonight?

>> Yeah. >> Um, we can. We can. I think so.

>> You got to. You got to. Or you guys are coming to a fork in the road where it's not going to be pleasant. You're both good people. You love each other. You got a good overall plan, but we got some tensions and some fears that have got to

be addressed or else it's going to get ugly.

[Music]

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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[Music]

All right, Danielle is joining us in Las Vegas. Danielle, how can we help today?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> Thanks for taking my call. >> You bet.

>> Um, I'm a little nervous. I'm sorry.

>> Don't listen, don't be nervous. It's just me and George. I mean, honestly, how could you be intimidated by either one of us, you know?

>> Hi, George. >> Hi.

So, um, I have papers in the works to

buy two years and 11 months so I could retire earlier for my job.

>> All right. So, I didn't understand. I'm sorry. Do you understand what you're saying? >> Papers. >> What do you mean by papers in two years and 11 months? What What are you talking about? >> So, I have papers. I just have to sign them and I can have my deferred comp that I have Oh, okay. rolled over to buy

time so I could retire sooner.

>> Okay. Okay. Gotcha. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 54.

>> Okay. And you're wanting to retire early?

>> Yeah. >> How come? >> So, if I put it in, I'll be able to retire at 57 with 30 years in.

>> Okay. >> So, it'll be my full retirement.

>> Got it. >> I'll be able to get my pension.

>> And what's that going to be? I'm I'm just um my pension will be 6700 a month.

>> Okay.

>> And um I don't have any debt except my house. Um I bought it in 2021

and I paid 464 for it and I owe 130 on

it right now. So I'm paying it down.

>> All right. So what's your question? >> Paid off before I retire. Should I do that? Like I'm nervous.

>> Should you retire early?

>> Yeah. Well, you know, that's a deeply

personal question. I got to have some more numbers. What? Let's start with what are your fears if you were to retire early.

>> Um, I don't know that I'll run out of money or something. >> All right. How much money? George is the man with he's got his investment calculator. Give us your retirement. We know what your pension is going to be, but what do you got in retirement?

So, um, my I get my husband's pension

and right now I'm getting 3,000 a month, but in about a year it's going to go down to um 800

and then I'll be able to get his social security when I'm 60 and that's another

uh 1865 a month. Um,

and I have another retirement that I

invested in uh California

uh that I have to call and check and see how much that is. But if it's just the face value what they show me and if not,

you know, keeps adding up or whatever, it will be another 460 a month from that. And then um I have my um my

deferred comp which I met with my person

yesterday and I ramped it up so that when the money gets taken out it's not going to go to zero. I'll have like 65,000 in there still. I'm going to ramp it up so I could save more in my deferred comp. And I have a Roth and I have a borrow uh I have a 357 that they

match and right now I'm putting 5% that they match and then in my Roth I'm putting 10%. But what are your total amounts in those accounts?

>> Um, in my >> the 401k and the Roth, >> oh, it's

72,000 and I'm going to roll over like

119.

>> Okay. I mean, it sounds like you're in pretty decent shape considering you have this pretty massive pension that's going to be there for you.

>> Yeah. So financially, I don't think this is about just the numbers. I think you you know your numbers pretty well when you're going, can you live off just even if you had to live off just the pension alone, nothing else, could you do it easily and be comfortable?

>> Mhm. >> And you said you're going to pay off the mortgage before you retire. So by your 57th birthday, no more mortgage,

>> right? >> Okay. >> I don't think you're going to run out of money if if that's that was the question or that was the fear. I don't see that.

Well, I just worry about like healthcare and stuff because I've been like really blessed my whole life. I've never paid out of pocket for health care. My companies or my husband has paid for it like over and above.

>> So, I'm kind of worried about that. And I want to get like um that long-term

disability like when I get really old and so my kids don't take care of me.

>> Are you in good health now? >> Something. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's let future you worry about that with all the future retirement money that's going to be sitting there >> uh on top of Medicare. So, I'm not as concerned about the health care piece.

I'm more concerned in the meantime in the next 20 years. What does Danielle's life look like? Cuz you're are you a widow?

>> Yes. >> Wow. What happened?

>> Um my husband committed suicide in 2020

January. >> Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

>> So, so sad. So, your picture of what the future look like, I mean, just immediately shattered at that point.

>> Uh, yeah, we don't even know.

>> What does your new picture look like? What does Danielle's future look like on

her own? Do you have kids all out of the house? >> I I I just I mean, I had a whole house

full at one point, now they're all gone.

Um, I just I just got diagnosed with

ADHD and anxiety. M >> and so like and I didn't notice that I even had that until my husband passed away. Like it was just like a lot of things at once. I never I never realized I didn't wake up to an alarm clock until after he passed away because he always catch me goodbye in the morning.

>> I'm so sorry. >> That was really really hard. Like oh my god I don't hear my I set like 12 alarms. >> Yeah. Well, then the question behind all that is to go, have you actually started to dream again? To go, what does this new picture of life look like? Other than, well, I just think I should retire early. >> And that's all we want is we want you to have a we want you retiring to something and not just from something.

>> Right. Right. And my son, uh, he's in

the service and he's stationed in Hawaii. He wants me to go stay out there for a few months and then I have three granddaughters and I just want to spend more time with my family.

>> Yeah, those are some great wives. lives in California. My sister lives in California, takes care of my mom, and I kind of want to help her with that. Um,

just more flexibility with my time.

>> You're laying out a strong case. >> Do my art.

>> Oh, you you paint that relaxes me.

>> What kind of art do you do?

>> I I just paint.

>> I love it. >> That's one of the cheapest and best forms of therapy right there. >> Yeah. Um, we just want to encourage you, Danielle. uh you're in good shape, you're frugal, um you're going to work a little bit longer. Uh between all the numbers, I mean, George ran the numbers for you. Um you know, there's no there's

no reason for you to be fearful about your future.

>> I didn't think so, but I just like my anxiety. I'm just always I'm always going to worry. >> I get Do you have a financial adviser in your corner?

Um, I I don't really um but I just and I

have like over a h 100,000 in a savings and checking account. >> Of course you do. >> Here's what I I'm telling you this for a reason. I think this is going to be one of the most effective forms of treatment for what you're going through is to have a financial adviser sit down, go through all the accounts, help you optimize, and then go, Danielle, you're fine.

Go see your grandbabies. Stop thinking about the money. >> Yeah.

>> You won't have to touch it?

>> But I won't have to start like taking money out of >> Oh, like required minimum distributions, the RMDs. Yeah.

>> Well, I jump on to ramseyolutions.com, Danielle. Go to ramseolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro. get in touch with a financial adviser that can walk you through all this and help you think through things very clearly, very calmly so that you don't have to think about it anymore. I think we need to get all this out of your brain. It's living there rentree for far too long and you have bigger dreams, bigger things to worry about than the numbers.

>> You're young. You're young. So, you

know, who knows what the future holds. I feel like I'm not though sometimes I >> Well, you've been listen you've been through a lot. Uh there there's no no doubt on that. But uh interview a couple do two or three meetings off of that list on on Ramsey Solutions and get with somebody you feel very comfortable with.

As they begin to map out your future and help you see all this, you're going to go from worrying to a lot of peace in this area of your life. And then hopefully that will trickle down into the other areas of your life because you've been through a lot. You're sweet lady. Um, so very sorry for your loss, but I can tell you financially you're going to be more than fine. So, and map out a future that involves family, grandbabies, all the things. Uh,

>> I want to be like be able to take my kids and yearly vacations and

>> there you go. While you're alive, live, you know, and uh you you got plenty of time and plenty of money to do that.

Thank you, Danielle.

[Music]

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[Music]

Claire is joining us now in Knoxville, Tennessee, the home of the Tennessee Volunteers.

Claire, how can we help?

Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> You bet.

>> Um, I guess what I'm wondering is me and

my boyfriend, we currently live with my parents and are expecting our first child and we want to know when the correct time for us to buy a house is going to be >> when you can afford it.

>> And I guess I'm thinking, can we afford it? >> Probably not. People who ask that question generally side in the area of they cannot. But tell us your financial situation. How much money?

>> Well, >> do you guys make >> right now? He brings in um we're just on

one income right now. He brings in 3,600

a month. >> Okay. And what does he do for a living?

>> Uh he basically works for um a union, but he works in construction.

>> Okay. And go ahead, George. I'm just wondering is there a a growth path for him there or is this it? Like he's the he's at the top of the ladder. >> No, he No, he's not at the top of the ladder. He's basically just begun. He's in his second year apprenticeship. So, he will be getting >> Oh, good. >> He gets pay raises throughout.

>> And what's the uh what's the ultimate destination? If he is um apprenticing,

where does he end up?

>> Eventually, I think he becomes a journeyman and I think he would top out around

somewhere around $40 an hour, but I haven't calculated okay that.

>> So, why are you two uh living with your parents with a baby on the way? You're not married. Do we have a family plan here? What's what's the deal? Because one of the things we we don't do is we never recommend that an unmarried couple I was on the show with Dave yesterday and he made it extremely clear, George,

that mar if you're not married, you should not be buying a house together.

So I want to make that clear. So what's the family plan here for you two?

>> Well, we want to get married and that's

in the plan. >> How long you guys been together? >> I don't know.

Uh two years.

Well, it doesn't seem like we really want to get married. People that want to get married go down to the courthouse and get married and do a ceremony later.

You guys are playing house in your mom and dad's house. That's not ideal.

>> Yeah, I would be fine with going down to

the courthouse, but I think it's kind of um he's worried about what his family will

think. I mean, what about the optics of

living with your mom and dad with a baby on the way to someone he's not married to? I think the optics are out the window at this point of what his family thinks. >> Yeah, that's not a winning scenario for him with his folks.

>> Yeah. And I feel like I tried to explain

that to him, but he doesn't really like understand, I guess. Or >> I think it may be deeper than that.

I hate to tell you. I know you didn't call for relationship advice.

But if his excuse is, I don't like the

way it's going to look, George nailed that one to the wall. It looks way worse when you are shacking up with your girlfriend who's pregnant in her parents' house. That doesn't say I've launched.

>> So yeah, >> we I'm not going to take any more time up on this call, but I do think this is a serious relationship conversation.

Where are we going?

and he doesn't get to kick the can down the road anymore.

You got to force this issue.

>> Yeah. So, you think that first step before anything is just get married?

>> If we're talking about buying a house, yes, >> we're bringing a human into this world that we're going to raise together. >> I think that, too.

>> What's the financial situation?

>> Um, you guys have any debt?

>> Uh, well, yes, he does have debt. Um, we

we have about

He's got a truck. >> Well, see, here's the thing. Let me let me jump in. There is no we. You guys aren't married. There's your finances

and then there's his finances. There's no we. You guys aren't legally married.

Therefore, you don't have shared finances. >> So, do you have any debt in your name?

Have you co-signed anything?

>> Great news. >> Okay. So, you didn't cosign on his truck? No, no, I don't have anything.

>> What is his truck payment?

>> Uh, with a warranty that he has on it, it's 77.

>> So, you're telling me you Okay, this is the frustrating part. You guys can't even afford to go rent, let alone buy a house. >> Exactly. That's why they're living in the basement. >> Childlike behavior to say, "I want a truck instead of create some independence for my own family." >> Yeah. >> What other debt does he have?

>> Uh, that's that. Just the truck.

>> Yeah. >> What does he owe on the truck? Do you know the balance?

>> Yeah, it's 36.

>> Goodness gracious. >> 36. >> Yeah. >> Your parents would do well to kick him out of the house.

>> I'm serious. He's got to grow up. I mean, that's almost his yearly income tied up in a car that's going down in value. >> Yeah. Guarantee he plays video games, too. >> Guaranteed.

He's got to grow up. He does. He does play video games. I knew it. This kid should not be playing video games. He doesn't have any time to play anything.

He's got a child on the way and he's living with his girlfriend's parents.

It's a growup time. Somebody's got to have a hard conversation with him. Cuz I'm going to tell you, if you were my sister, I would be freaking out right now with you going, "What in the world are you doing?

>> This young guy is who's not a grown-up is going to pull you into his mess.

So, forget the house.

>> I know you called about the house. >> If you want the true next steps, if you can convince him and get on the same page, would be to sell the truck, get married, get an emergency fund, and then move out and rent and do that for a year, two, three, while saving up a down payment. And then maybe a few years from now, we can get into a house. That's a big maybe.

That's if his income goes up drastically. >> And he's got a good trade job. That's the good news. >> He's got work ethic.

>> So, would you guys suggest using like

should he use his savings to

>> pay off the truck or >> How much does he have?

>> Uh 16,000.

>> Yes. >> He doesn't have enough to pay it off, but he can cover the difference. He's underwater. I'm guessing the truck is isn't worth 36.

>> Um I have no idea. I would do some homework tonight and find out the Kelly Blue Book private party value to see what he could sell it for on his own.

Not a tradein, but to sell it private.

And if he can get 40 for it and the loan is 36, good. But it might be worth 32

and he owes 36. Well, now he needs to pony up four grand to get out of this deal. And he still needs money on top of that to buy something reasonable used that can get him from A to B to the construction site. >> Yeah. >> Do you do you love this guy? You want him to marry you?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, then you need to tell him.

This is what we're doing. And when are you due?

>> Um, actually in a few days.

>> Whoa. >> Oh my goodness.

All right. Here's the deal. Once the baby's born, everything's healthy hopefully and all the things. You guys need to get married. Uh, and and well,

I'm sorry. You need to get married. I'd get married today, but you need to get to work. You've got family that can watch the baby. And if you're a young couple, as George was saying, the only thing I was going to add to this, if you want to marry this guy, let's go get married. Get married today. And then we start our life together. We're going to combine finances, which means he needs you working. You need to work. And you got somebody to watch the baby. Is this forever? No. But it's for this season to

get you guys out of your parents' house and living on your own. You need two incomes.

>> Um, >> you got childare. Do you think

>> do you think I should pay for child care or >> No, I think I Well, I would ask my mom and if they would help watch the baby you're living with them.

>> They're okay with your boyfriend living with you. >> I'd crunch the numbers on what it's going to cost. If they're unwilling to watch for free or you need to pay them or you need to get child care, see what you could make to make sure it makes sense because it might cost you your entire paycheck and then it's a moot point. >> Yeah.

And I'm not saying that. I'm just assuming probably in incorrectly, but I would at least have the conversation with my parents, >> you know. >> Yeah, they they are able to >> Oh, okay. Well, then then we got to figure that part out.

But you guys need to get married if you're if you're going to be together. You got a name for the baby yet?

>> Uh, yeah. Yeah, we do. It's Maggie.

>> Maggie. >> Maggie. >> I love that. >> Ignorant question. Whose last name does the baby take in this case?

>> His. >> His. Okay.

>> Yeah. I >> think it's time to get I'd get married before we head to the hospital. >> I would too. >> Let's go down to the courthouse and we could party later. >> If George or I were or were ordained, we'd do it here on the air. >> That'd be incredible. >> I think the Randy Show needs a ceremony.

>> I'd be the ring bear, the flower girl.

I' >> You could do the music. >> Oh, love it. >> Call us back. We'll make it happen. >> I'd marry him and throw the rice.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Heather's up in Minneapolis. Heather, how can we help today?

>> Um, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You bet. >> Um, I have a question about budgeting.

Is there ever a time in your life or like in our life in the future that we would stop tracking intensely with each

and every dollar and just kind of can I

don't know budget maybe more in large buckets?

>> Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I think the concept of budgeting will always be there, should always be there, but it will get easier and more fun the more money you have, and it can be more generalized. So, for example, you might not need 17 line items and syncing funds, and instead it just says shopping, >> you know what I mean?

And it might just be a little simpler. >> Man, that's music to my ears. >> Yeah, Ken loves to hear that. >> I have that's what I have.

So, where are you guys at financially?

>> Um, so we're baby step seven.

>> Woohoo. >> And probably within a couple years, we'll be able to withdraw from start taking some money from our non-retirement investments just to kind of do some applications. And >> that's great. What does your what does your picture look like? Can you tell us your net worth?

Yep. It's maybe just over 8 million.

>> Hey there. >> Back to your initial question. I think you're there.

>> You're pretty darn you're pretty darn close. If you aren't, I think you're there. I think you have that kind of margin. >> Yeah.

The budget now exists not to like just keep you on track. It exists to fulfill your dream and your vision >> for what retirement and this next season of your life looks like. And so the better you manage it, the more you'll have to make an impact to, you know, maybe that's pass down wealth, maybe that's to impact your community, give to organizations you love, spend like Congress. I mean, you can do what you want with $8 million.

So, how how do you go from intensely

budgeting to get I mean we we did that to get where we are today to being more

generalized categories I guess.

>> What does your budget look like today?

Do you have a ton of line items?

>> Yes, very much. >> Okay. And who's whose idea was that to go let's get very specific or how long has it been like this?

>> Um it's mostly mine. I'm the the budget spreadsheet person. So, >> we have lots of funds and just kind of

draw from there. >> And the truth is the funds, you don't need all of those funds anymore. If you guys had you wanted to get a new car, you could just go get a new car, >> right? >> You don't need $1,000 into a car syncing fund to tell you that you have 12,000 at the end of the year.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> Is that a good example?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. And then for utilities, for example, instead of having everything listed out, you could probably just have one that says utilities and you drag the water bill in there. You drag the electricity bill in there. And right now it says water, electric, HOA, etc.

>> Sure. Okay. So, it's more just a brain switch for myself to >> to switch that to more. >> Do a budget audit and maybe with your husband and just go, hey, what areas could we simplify this budget so when I look at it, it doesn't give me anxiety, it just gives me joy.

And maybe you have like the margin category now of just how much extra you're going to have per month because my guess is you guys have a great income. How much do you make a month?

>> Awesome. So is it like you know 15 grand drops in that account every month give or take? >> U about 13,653

>> just about. Yeah she knows. So you know this is a great example. So, what I would do is is okay, we know all of our

utilities and all the bills and grocery like you've got that down to a science.

I know you do.

>> So, all of the basic living expenses,

all of that you can consolidate, you know, as George told you, but once you got that number, then anything outside

of that number, again, simplify the budget because again, you don't you don't have to have all these funds. So, I I would just, you know, super simple like George said, but then after we've taken care of the necessities, whatever that monthly margin is that you don't

have to spend, it's not going to anything to live, that's when you start to loosen up and have some fun with that and realize we've got plenty of margin.

So, let's uh just keep it let's budget it like it's margin.

>> Does that make does that make sense what I'm saying? It's super simple. Yeah. And it'll retrain your brain over time because the more you look at that budget and the more simple it gets, the more your brain goes, "Oh, we're fine." It'll be a quick glance instead of a long budget meeting. It's just like, "Hey, do we have any big things coming up this month that we want to do?" Right. >> No. Okay, cool. Do you guys plan ahead

on fun stuff?

>> Oh, yeah. Yep. >> Yeah. All right. >> Does anything scare you right now?

>> Like what are your fears or like the thing that like I want to do this, but it feels frivolous? Like do you have a hard time spending? What's the issue?

No, we don't have a we don't have a hard time spending. It's just I would like to not I feel like I've been budgeting for so long that I would just like to just kind of loosen it up a little bit.

>> Sure. Hey, how about this? I'll gift you this. Take a month off of budgeting.

Just take a month off. See how it feels.

>> Could you do that? Okay. >> You are so powerful.

>> You just I just gave her the gift. You just wield that power so effortlessly.

You just told Heather, "Hey, hey, Heather, don't budget for a month." I just want it's like you you've been counting calories your whole life and I'm going hey just eat the meal and enjoy it and see what that's like because you guys have done such a good job to get here and the budget was a key and so it's not that the budget is is no longer serving you. I just think it is it's taking up too much space in your head >> and so I would like to just see you free yourself of that for a month.

What likely will happen is you you'll forget after like seven days enjoy your life and then you'll go back to it and go oh I remember you.

Okay. >> Wow. I tell you what, folks.

>> George never ceases to amaze me. A lot of power you're wielding here. >> Old dog new tricks here. Look at to not

budget for a month.

>> It uh be careful, George. A lot of power for one person. >> $7 million. >> Could go to your head. Could go to your head quickly.

Uh no, but I think you're absolutely right. That that was good. You know what? You also you you were like an emperor and then you were Mr. Rogers all in one call. >> Yeah. do things I never thought.

>> I'll go back for the week and I'll see that the budget is my friend who is very Mr. Rogers. Thank you. I love that. Uh, by the way, uh, we're talking about budgeting and we have to mention the allnew every dollar. Now, George, when we say all new, I don't want people to think that we slapped a new logo on this. >> No, actually, same logo.

>> Exactly.

>> Exactly. And let's describe this because I don't think people realize this is no longer and when we launched it, it was a great budgeting app, but it is no longer just a budgeting app. Tell them, George.

>> I'm pulling mine out right now. So, we still got the same great budgeting app there. Like, you still have that tab, but there's a new tab that says today.

>> And so, this is the the personalized plan. We're calling it the digital coach experience, uh, with a bunch of advanced features. And what it does now is we've integrated the Ramsay plan. We have breathed life into what once was just math in a slick budgeting app.

Now we're actually going to give you recommendations personalized to you based on where you're at, based on the information you give us, so we can skewer you in the right direction, much like we would on the Ramsay show, but now you can do this in your pocket 24/7 on your smartphone. All you got to do is go download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play. And what's cool is the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. How is that possible, George?

Here's the debt I have. Here's the assets that I have. Here's kind of what I'm willing to do. Here's my goals.

Well, now we can start to shape that and go, hey, what if you did XYZ? Are you willing to do that? Nope. Okay, how about this? And so, between all those recommendations, it adds up to over $3,000 in margin.

>> Yeah, it's crazy. I love that. So, there you go. every dollar. Uh, and you can

get it for free in the App Store or Google Play. And then I got to share this because, uh, you know, we we we

love what we do because we get to help real people. We get to meet real people.

And one of the great things about this is we do our show uh, in front of a live studio audience. They're out there in the lobby. Lovely group of people today from all around the country. We get to meet them.

And we went out uh on our uh, just a minute ago and took some pictures. And I don't know if the guys can zoom in on this. Oh, please zoom in on this photo. You got to be watching on YouTube or Spotify.

>> Some young children love George's videos. There they go. Here's the zoom in here. If you're on YouTube, and they drew a picture of you and expressed their love and appreciation for you.

And I thought, this is actually a pretty good photo, but they see you without a beard. >> Oh, >> did you notice that? >> And it's a good reminder of why I have one.

Sorry, Elliot. Elliot and uh Gideon Fowler. Appreciate you guys listening.

It does. Listen, we're affecting the next generation. >> You really are. Listen, they love his videos. I said, George, this is a high compliment. These kids have the attention span of a squirrel on cocaine and they're watching your videos. This is fantastic. >> I have the same brain as a 10-year-old.

That's why they love it. >> You look handsome without the beard. Appreciate that.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Glad you're with us. Let's go to West Virginia and Eric is there. Eric, how can we help?

>> Hi. Yes, sir. So, uh, my question comes to my wife and I have made very poor financial decisions in the past and we're we're trying to take care of that now. Um but my question is how do we get rid of vehicles when we are so upside down on them? Um because that's our biggest hurdle right now.

>> Okay. Well, walk us through the exact details of the vehicles. Uh what you owe

and uh what you could get for them uh in private sale.

>> Okay. So, uh we'll start off with the most expensive. Um it would be uh my wife's Jeep. Um we owe 47,000.

Um, on a good day, uh, high Kelly Blue Book value is 35,000. Um, and then my

car, uh, it's a Civic. Um, we owe 21,000. On a good day, it would be 18,000 that we could get. Um, and then we have a motorcycle as well. Um, and motorcycles are weird. Um, it's hard to find like direct value with those. U, but we owe 10,000 on that. And, you know, I would be lucky. I'd like to think I could get 8,000 out of it. So, we're about, if I did quick math, George, 17,000 in the hole on all three.

Okay.

>> Is that all of your debt? You guys have other types?

>> Oh, no. We have we have a lot of other debt, and that's that's what we're trying to get on top of, you know.

>> What are the total payments for these cars and motorcycle?

>> Uh, so the Jeep is 960. Uh, the Civic is

455 and the motorcycle is 305.

>> Oh my goodness gracious. I literally have a stomach ache like right now.

>> I got to get 10 some Tums after this.

Tums. >> What's your household income?

>> Uh about 67 a month after taxes.

>> Okay. Are you guys doing any investing right now? >> No. >> 6700?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you got over $1,700 in payments on these vehicles?

>> Yes. Unfortunately. >> What's your rent or mortgage?

Um, our mortgage is 468 a month.

>> 468?

>> Yes. >> Do you live in a trailer?

>> I do. Yes. >> Goodness gracious, man. Your Jeep is nicer than your house.

>> It is. Uh, we've, like I said, we've made really poor financial decisions and we're just trying our best to get out of it at this point.

>> Okay. What other debt do you have? What's the total balance?

>> Break. So total debt of everything is 209,000.

>> That's just consumer debt.

>> Uh well, yes. So that includes the vehicles, the house, and then uh credit cards um uh would be 41,000.

>> Okay. >> Y'all are just living like you're in Beverly Hills, not West Virginia in the hills. >> That's That's for sure. >> What made you guys want to turn this thing around?

Um well so um I had a security clearance

and um I had again we've made super poor

financial decisions but I had a vehicle years ago get repossessed um and that repossession come back up on

my security clearance and with the security clearance concern um obviously

that was like a slap in the face like okay we need to get our our life together here. Um, and uh, so debt's

been trying to or sorry, our extra income's been trying to go towards taking care of that. Um, and yeah. So,

>> okay. Well, I I'll give you the advice on the cars. You're 17 grand underwater.

So, that's your magic number of how much money you need to come up with to get out of these payments. So, either you need to save up that amount or you need to get a loan from your your local credit union to cover that amount. I don't know that they're going to give it to you. My guess is your credit shot.

>> It is. It is. and we've tried to do that and they won't they won't work with us.

>> How much can you put away each month?

You know, if you cover all the bills, minimum debt payments, how much can you set aside?

>> So, right now, we're working with around $600 a month. Um, and and like I said,

we've been trying to use that towards our other debts and stuff like that in the last year. Um, but then like I said, that that repossession from years ago kind of came up and that's what we've been trying to tackle at this moment.

All right. Um, I'm gonna ask a question here. Uh, what would what would it cost you to rent? Uh, I know you're in a trailer. Did you have a mortgage on, but what would it cost you to rent in your area?

>> Um, so that's tough. Like the cheap because we've been looking at that. Um, the cheapest that we found is like 1,200 a month. Um, and of course we've been looking at other areas. We've been looking at outside of our county and stuff like that. But, uh, yeah, it's not really found anything. >> Well, what do you mean? You looked outside your county. You didn't find anything to rent?

>> No, we found plenty of stuff to rent, but like $1,200 a month is far more than we can afford. >> I get that. But I mean, what about like somebody has got a a a bedroom over a garage? Have you looked at that kind of stuff? The non-traditional rentals.

>> Well, we we have two children, so >> I know, but you're in a trailer that's losing value. And where I'm going with this, George, is I don't know if you have any equity in that trailer.

So, we owe about 40,000 on the trailer.

It's a It's a 2017. I bought it brand new in 2017. Um, and I don't Yeah, I don't think that it would be worth much more than that. I don't know. I don't know how I would even go about selling a trailer. You know what I mean? >> I don't know either, dude. But I >> You got the credit card debt and the cars. Anything else? And of course, the trailer. Do you have any other debt?

>> Uh, well, student loans. Um, but that I included that in my credit card debt.

It's uh 11,000 in student loans.

Okay. Well, here's the the hard truth.

At this rate, if you put 600 bucks away to get to that 17,000 amount you're underwater on, which by the way just lets you sell them. That means you have no vehicle. You have no money to put towards another vehicle. It would take you 28 months.

>> And by then, those cars have dropped even more in value. So, we don't have time to play that game. You guys are both about to be working 80, 90 hour weeks to climb out of this. There are no good solutions here.

Uh that's I mean my wife has picked up a second job. Um because of my career now I'm not allowed to pick up a second job.

Uh so you know we're we're doing what we can. >> What do you what do you make?

>> Uh so I bring home um about five grand a

little over five grand a month.

>> Can you switch careers and go work three jobs?

I I can, but uh my you know, I've been in this career now for 12 years and retirement is only eight years away. So >> retirement, dude, you can't even eat.

You're broke.

>> I I understand that, but with I mean, I'm eligible for retirement at 20 years.

And you know, obviously I can stay in it longer than that. But >> I mean, let me tell you something, young man. you called and your response to what we're telling you is just a

heartbeat away from being stuck in this cycle the rest of your life. And I I was born in a small town in West Virginia. I know that state.

>> Yes, sir. >> I know the economic situation that you're in. You don't want to do this to yourself. So, your response of, well, I'm I'm in this. This is where I'm at.

And then but eight. I mean you you have a full-blown crisis on your hands.

>> I agree. >> How old are those kids?

>> Uh nine and the other one's about to turn two.

>> My goodness, man. If you do it for nothing else, do it for those kids.

>> You got to bring in some more income.

This is an income issue right now to fix. >> I don't care what the benefits are >> because you're going to be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life if we don't make severe changes.

>> Well, so my career, let me just clarify

that. my I'm in the military and so

it you know I can I can get out of the military but obviously I'm in a contract and I got to wait and all that kind of stuff.

>> Well, your wife's going to have to take the brunt of it for now. >> All right. So, we get that. So, now she's got to work like crazy >> and and she is.

>> Income is your only way out of this cuz we can't even get rid of these cars because of the dumpster fire situation with them being underwater. Maybe your credit gets decent enough over time that you can get a loan from the credit union to cover the difference plus a little bit extra. But man, this is a no-win situation. So, sorry.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

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May not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Hayden in Georgia. My wife and I bring home $8,000

a month and we pay 7500 a month on debt and living expenses. We're 138,000 in

debt between credit cards, car loans, student loans, and unpaid taxes. How am I supposed to pay extra on the debt with only 500 bucks a month left over that has to cover food, utilities, etc. I have redone my budget and save money where I could. I tried selling my car, but I'm $5,000 upside down. Should I just file bankruptcy and be done with it?

>> Well, if this isn't the most American question I've ever gotten. In other countries, they'd be like, "You make $8,000 a month. You are the wealthiest person I've met." And they go, "No, no, no. We're broke.

We're broke. You don't understand." >> Okay, let's address this. Uh, you said living expenses, but then you said 500 bucks a month has to cover food, utilities, etc. So, that should be included in your living expenses.

Not sure why you worded it like that, cuz that frightens me if that doesn't even cover your food and utilities and it's costing you $7,500 a month.

upside down question, that's a simple one. You need $5,000 either saved up

from your extra cash every month or you need to get a loan from your local credit union plus enough to get you a different car to get rid of that car payment, which will definitely help. The unpaid taxes, that's going to the top of the list. IRS gets paid first because they are the scariest. They can destroy your life, garnish your wages, yada yada.

The rest of this, I'm going, we need to do a budget audit tonight, which I'm sure you guys have never done one, but go download every dollar. List out your income for the month, 8,000. List out every single expense, including your minimum payments on your debt, and then be judicious and go, "What do we not need to survive?" And that becomes your new budget. Hopefully, you can shave off uh a whole lot right there.

And then if that doesn't solve it, you don't have enough margin. You need to go make more money, which I know is crazy because you guys have a great income making eight grand a month. you might need to make nine grand, 10 grand a month with some side hustles and overtime selling stuff, whatever you got to do to get to a little more stability and find that margin. >> Uh George, >> that's my take.

Don't do it. >> I agree. But I'm going to tee you up. Uh I don't The last line is what concerns me because I think there's millions of Americans who drop into this. It's a mindset. The last line is should I just

file bankruptcy and be done with it? It is a I if I file bankruptcy,

hey, I wipe it all clean. Uh I get a

fresh start. I don't think people realize what a prison bankruptcy is.

George, let's talk about the meat and potatoes of bankruptcy. Okay, you do it.

You file for it. Now, here's the circumstances or in other words, here is

uh what you're going to have to deal with because you've done it. Explain that. >> Well, number one, it destroys your financial world. So, your credit is completely shot.

And again, I don't care about your credit score, but if you have a bad one, it's going to hurt every area of your finances. Your insurance premiums, your ability to get a job, to rent an apartment, all of that is affected by that >> sustain. >> And on top of that, there's two types that most people do. Chapter 7 or chapter 11.

Um, and you know, one is just a repayment plan >> or chapter 13, uh, sorry, the repayment plan. And so, you're going to have to sell all your assets.

So, good luck getting rid of those if that's the main thing dragging you down.

And again, it doesn't solve the problem. What we find is most people that file bankruptcy end up doing it again if they don't change the behavior that got them there. >> It's kind of like watching an episode of Hoarders and they've just destroyed the place. It's a dumpster.

And they go, "Well, I guess we'll just sell the house and start over." Instead of going, "Let's clean this up." >> Yeah. >> Let's maniacally get rid of stuff. Send it to the junk. Clean it up.

And so, uh, bankruptcy is something we never recommend. Obviously, famously, our CEO Dave Ramsey went through bankruptcy, but he had no other choice. His back was against the wall and he couldn't pay it off fast enough. He was actually very close and he couldn't pay it off fast enough to avoid it.

So, it's something that we always tell people, avoid it at all costs. Fight, fight, fight to climb out.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely good advice there. Alexa is now joining us in Springfield, Michigan. and Alexa, how can we help?

>> Hi guys, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm a longtime listener, big fan. And I'm actually in Springfield, Missouri. >> Oh, Missouri. You know what? I thought that, but uh I saw the MI instead of the M O. >> That's okay. People forget about us a lot. >> Not me. >> It's not Ken's fault. Not me. >> He just was reading. He was Ron Burgundy reading what was on the screen. >> Uh isn't we have a Don't we have a president a former president from Springfield, Missouri?

>> Am I right about that? Oh, >> Harry Truman. Is that right or wrong? I may be wrong. I know he's from Missouri, but uh nonetheless, trying to make you feel good. We love Springfield. What's going on tonight?

>> Yes. I So, my question is a shovel question. >> Okay. >> So, currently, um I'm trying to decide

between two jobs. Um I'm a nurse and I

have worked at my hospital that I'm at now for 13 years. and I've just recently

moved into healthcare IT. I'm making a

decent income for my area about 91,400 a

year.

Um, I graduated from here. I've worked here for my entire career. Um, I've got

a very flexible job. I'm in office four days a week, remote one day. I love my team. I love my bosses. And I also qualify for public service loan forgiveness here in May of 2026. and

that will be $24,000 forgiven.

But um recently I was not looking for a job because I qualify for PLSF so soon.

But I was approached for a job for a big company and just decided to explore it.

>> Good. >> And this job. Yeah. um was it's fully

remote and it would be I would be a consultant for a product I do really believe in and I thought it was going to be um $110,000 a year plus a 10% bonus

yearly guaranteed that I would lose that public service loan forgiveness. Um the

other catch is is that it's 45 to 60 days a year of national travel.

>> Okay.

>> So my official offer came in on Monday.

Mh. >> And um they offered me 115,000 a year, a

$10,000 sign on bonus.

>> We like that. >> And that 10% yearly bonus. But it's I

guess it's a moral conundrum because I'm very attached to my current system that

I'm in. And I've got such a good thing going. So I'm like, should I take this new risk and jump into something kind of more unknown >> for more money? >> Well, it comes down to this. So I love this. great job laying it out and uh you know uh I've counseledled over 10,000 people on the air on this very topic and

it always comes down to the long term.

>> Where do you want to be 25, 30 years

from now? And the professional choices that you're going to be faced with, they

need to always come in through that filter. Does this move me forward one

way or the other? Even a step back sometimes moves us forward. But if the step back puts me where on the path to where I want to be long term, then I'm always always for it and I make financial concessions in order to be able to do that. So in this situation, when you say you're morally tied to your

system, that's a curious statement. What do you mean morally tied?

>> I, you know, I've worked here for so long and we are a pretty small community. I mean, we're the biggest little town kind of in Missouri.

>> All right. So, here's the deal. I got a minute. I got a minute with you, so I got to hurry. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, question is, which one of these jobs, staying where you are or taking the new job? Which one of those puts you on the path or moves you further along

on the path you want to be?

>> The current one or the new? The new one.

It sets you up for the long term financially plus professionally.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, it's a no-brainer, Alexa. You're a good person. And those people are going to be okay with you when you leave. And if they're not, they were never good people in the first place.

>> Oh, I Yeah, when you put it like that, it makes so much sense. >> I know. Cuz I'm not emotionally attached to it. So, I sound so balanced.

But the reality is, I've had to walk through this, too. And because you're a good person and you like the people and you're loyal, then you're feeling, you know what you're really worried about? You're scared they're going to think you're a bad person if you leave them behind. >> And the math checks out.

I mean, this ROI is a,000% taking this new gig. The 10,000 sign on bonus, you're making an extra 24 a year.

is a moot point. You can pay that off on your own. >> This was a financial no-brainer, George, from the get-go. I always want to know emotionally and professionally, where are we at? And that's the answer to the question. Love it. Excited for you, Alexa. Go. Don't look back.

All [Music]

right, we get a lot of great questions from our audience, George. And here are some top questions people have about online wills. Number one, how do I know

if I need a trust or if my estate is too

complicated for an online will?

>> Oo, a good baseline. If your estate is worth less than a million, getting a will online probably the right option for you. >> All right, number two. Uh, what do I need to start my will online?

>> Well, you got to think it through a few questions here. What do who do you want to get your stuff? That's a big one. Who do you want to take care of your minor children?

And then who do you want to make decisions for you if you're incapacitated? So, there's a lot that goes into a will, online or not. You got to think through through those things. >> Good stuff.

Number three, is an online will legally valid? These people a little worried about the old online business. >> They go, "Well, it's online. It's got to be done in a lawyer's office." Uh, not just any online will you find on the internet's legally valid.

Your online will needs to match the laws of your state. So, you got to have a state specific will. >> And then a follow-up to that, why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made with a lawyer?

>> There you go. It's that simple. I love it. That's the way I did it. >> You're trying to save a buck or two, George. Go to ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz

to find out if an online will is right for you. And I I I I feel like I got to tell the audience this, and I think you'll be okay with this, George, but you know, George is very calm. He's a very calm person. Uh it's rare that you see him flumxed >> and uh he is your broccoli got steamed

today. >> Yeah. And I don't you're not really a steamed broccoli guy.

>> And when the show is over, boy, somebody's going to catch your wrath.

That's all I'm going to say. George is there's somebody attempting to rip George off. >> Might catch a stray today if you're catch me on the wrong side >> to the tune of $149. And you would think this guy got ripped off for $14,900.

How upset he is. >> It's the principle. Woo. So, just I'm proud of you. You're really holding it together cuz I know how angry you are.

>> Well, I'm a consumer advocate and you got to advocate for yourself first and so nobody rips old Georgie boy off. I'll

keep you guys posted. >> Caller beware. He is steaming underneath

that natty little coat there. He's looking good. Yeah, he is hot to trot.

Kevin is up in Minneapolis. Kevin, how can we help?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> We're having a blast. Kevin, what's going on with you? >> Well, good. Well, I've got kind of a funny situation here. Um, we really have

it pretty decent financially. Um, we're

going to be, my wife and I are 65 years old. We're going to be retiring in the next month and uh we make about $150,000

a year. Um, we've got an employee

compensation of about 123 about

$120,000.

that's uh taxfree. It's taxable when we take it out. Uh our social security should be about $4,500 a month. I got about a $1,500 a month pension. Um we uh

we owe about $160,000 on our house. Uh it's worth about um

it's worth about $430,000

now. Um my uncle recently uh passed away

and we are uh set to inherit

um between $500 and $700,000.

>> Whoa. >> Um here's the problem that I here's the problem that I that I have. We attended Dave's Financial Peace University uh through our church and we loved it. We absolutely loved it. We don't owe anybody any money except for our house.

And uh Dave says that if you don't know about investing, he said don't do it. Um

and um I'm I'm wondering where where do

we put this money? Uh because I don't know anything about about the stock market. I don't know anything about uh uh financing to that level. And I just don't want to I I I wanna I want to do what God wants me to do. Um I I want to

be careful, you know. >> Sure. Well, let me let me uh let me speak on behalf of Dave here. Uh when you heard him say that, the spirit of what he was saying uh is no one should

ever invest a nickel into anything if they don't understand what they're investing into. So, he's not saying because Kevin doesn't know anything about investing, he should go bury the 500,000 in his backyard in coffee cans.

I don't want to do that. >> I know, but I just want to make sure you understand. So, we're we we teach an investing plan. I'll let George walk you through it. Uh, I can tell you that you're going to need to go to ramseolutions.com when this call is over and click on the smartvetor pro tab. Um,

and you need to go interview. I recommend two to three at a minimum. Uh, and these are professionals that we have vetted. Uh, they will teach you. And what Dave wants you to do in those situations is you find somebody that explains your situation well explains uh

what the investment strategy is that we

agree with and and then you understand

it to the point and you go oh I understand this completely this makes total sense and you like them and then

you choose to go with them and and so that's what what you need to do but George explain the overall investing strategy here and then uh I know you got a plan for what they need to do with this money. >> Sure. So, the one thing we say is just wait. Don't make any big financial decisions on day one. Just park that money in a high yield savings account.

Is it going to come to you just all in cash?

>> Yes. >> Okay. It's not like real estate that you have to sell or anything like that.

>> No. >> Okay. Great. >> It's going to be going to be straight cash. He >> Okay. He had 10 nieces and nephews and he split his inheritance up and I I

think we're going to get between 500 and $700,000. >> Yeah, that's quite the legacy >> would be our for >> So I I would wait and breathe and get a good dream team in your corner and like Ken mentioned an investment advisor is one of them. I'd get a good tax CPA in your corner as well to help you understand tax implications of all this.

Um, and then I would be focused on knocking out that mortgage. That's only going to allow you guys to retire with even more breathing room, right? What's that payment every month?

>> Uh, it's about uh about 1,500 bucks.

>> Okay. So, boom. You just gave yourself a $1,500 raise in retirement.

>> Well, yeah, I understand. I understand what I want to do, but we are planning to move out of the state when we retire.

We want to be close by our grandkids, so we're moving to Sou Falls, uh, South Dakota. >> Okay. Uh so so that that that's the

quandry that that we're in.

>> Well, if you if you pay off your house, it's not like the money disappears.

You're going to get it in the net sale of the house. And in the meantime, you freed up 1,500 bucks.

>> Yes. >> So that's still not a bad move to give you guys some peace as you move and then you can, you know, get your next house in cash. Is that the plan?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I don't want any I don't want any mortgage. >> I love it. >> I want to pay everything. >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're 65. Okay, so let's just play this out. You pay off the mortgage, that's 160, right? And you buy your next house in cash. Let's say there's $500,000 sitting there left over. You can do what you want with, right?

>> Mhm. >> And you don't need it for your actual income right now. So, let's say you could just invest it into the stock market. If you invested in some good growth stock mutual funds, an index fund, and you let it ride from 65 to 72, that 500,000 would double in

those seven years with the historic rate of return we've seen in the market.

>> I'd love that. >> That's if you did nothing. This is not like you're not playing stocks. You're not day trading. This is in like an S&P 500 index fund. It just tracks the top 500 companies in the market. You buy, you know, $500,000 worth of shares.

Historically, if you get an average rate of return of 10%. So, like this year, we're already at, you know, if you look at the last 6 months, it's in the 20some percent. Year to date, probably closer to 15 or 16%. Some years it might be down, some years it might be up. So, there's a little bit of a roller coaster, but you're not going to lose your lunch either if you just leave it invested.

>> Uhhuh. >> And so, that would be my goal for you guys. If you don't need the money, just let it sit at least in an investment account. And uh our one of the Smart Investor pros can guide you through that, help you understand it.

Again, I want to make sure that you know what you're doing and not just going, "Well, George told me to, so I'm going to do that." But having a good dream team to fill in the gaps and moving with patience and always going, "Are we doing this with wisdom?

Are we going to use this money to grow it? Are we going to give more? Are we going to spend more?" All of that needs to be part of your plan so that you don't have any financial regrets with this.

>> Okay, >> there it is. Kevin, here's the deal.

Final word on this to encourage you.

Fear goes away when we have clarity and knowledge. But when we're not sure about something, it's fuzzy, foggy, uh we don't know. The fear of the unknown is terrifying. So that fear that you have is going to go away when you get a bunch of knowledge and clarity. And uh George is giving you a good plan on that. So excited for you in your future. Uh I know you're going to do good things with that money. >> I hope he can leave a legacy to his

>> nieces, nephews, children. I mean, that'd be pretty cool, too. I was sitting there thinking this is a really nice uncle because I love my nieces and nephews, but I'll be honest with you.

>> It's not going to them. >> I don't know if I'm giving him any money. I don't know. >> Sorry, Ken's nieces and nephews.

>> That's not a final decision. I'm just sitting there going, is that part of my >> You better suck up to Uncle Ken starting now. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture today, Galatians 5:22 and

23. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Our quote of the day from Theodore Roosevelt. There is only one quality worse than hardness of heart, and that is softness of head.

Just let that sit there. I'm not sure. I love Teddy. And normally I I think when

he says softness of head, that means somebody who's not um not the brightest.

Yeah. Yeah. Because if you call someone hard-headed that oh that means they're stubborn. So I think he means stubborn is a strength and if you're not by the way uh call back >> uh for you uh >> trivia lovers >> to the astute listeners out there.

>> Yeah we had a call earlier. I forget the lady's name. She was from Springfield, Missouri. And I said uh I think

President Truman might have been from Springfield but I wasn't sure. And I was right both times. >> I fact checked him. The only >> born in Missouri. >> Yeah. but not from Springfield. And I bailed myself out by saying I'm not sure. >> Lamar. >> Lamar, Missouri. There you go. Uh, do

you know what quote Henry Trum uh, Harry Harry Truman is most famous for?

>> Couldn't tell you. For a million bucks.

>> I bet you know it cuz you can finish it.

If you can't stand the heat, >> get out of the kitchen.

>> Harry Truman, ladies and gentlemen, >> it doesn't feel like a Truman quote to be honest. It feels like a movie quote.

>> Well, see, because it's that good. And I'm trying to smarten up the younger generations that have not been taught well in class because this is clearly a generational thing. >> Well, they don't know their way around the kitchen, so clearly they couldn't stand the >> There is that too. >> They're door dashing everything. >> Yeah. Uh Jake is up in Boisee, Idaho. Is

it Jake? Is it Boise or Boisey?

>> Uh boy. >> That's what I thought sound. >> Yeah, I used to do the Z and now I got I went to the C. Boisey. All right. Very good. How can we help?

>> Okay, so we live in a 1945 farmhouse.

Um, it's kind of a it's two-bedroom, one bath. We do have a bonus room, but for some reason it's not counted as a room.

We have five children. We're kind of out

of room. So, we were looking to sell, buy something bigger. Um,

it ain't moving. It isn't moving. So, we were thinking about doing a construction loan and building, you know, a modest 2,000 ft house. We

didn't know how smart it would be to do that.

>> Well, can you do that if you don't sell the current house?

>> Um, I think it'd be really tough.

>> Do you guys have any debt right now?

>> Yes, we do. Only we have the only debt we have is a camp trailer.

>> Okay. The land is paid off. Vehicles.

>> Okay. >> Land is paid off. Yep. >> Good. And how much do you have in savings? >> Um I think we have 1,100 in high yield. So pretty much nothing. >> What about the camper? Is it worth anything?

>> About 16. >> What do you owe on it?

>> About 16.

>> I think I think it books at almost 20, but it's scraped up on the side a little bit. >> Well, you got to get rid of that. >> Doesn't hurt nothing. You got to get rid of that cuz that thing is only devaluing and you need to get that out of your life. That'll free up how much a month?

>> Uh two $22.

>> That's real money, I'm guessing. What's your income?

>> 63.

>> Yeah, dude. >> George, am I right? We're getting rid of the camper today. Let's get Let's sell that. >> That's one step toward this. But the the problem is if you build this thing, you get the construction loan, you convert it to a traditional loan. I'm scared you can't afford it. >> Well, no. Not with the current house.

What What are you listing the house for?

>> 570.

>> How many squares? >> 13 acres. >> Okay. But how big of a house is it?

>> I think they say that the livable square footage is 1,100 or 1,200, something like that. >> Whoever bought it, would they just tear it down and and build something else on it or use it for other things?

>> Yeah, they would just tear it down. But they're not wanting to spend 570 on the property and then turn around and do that. I have a I have a dumb question.

I'm sure you've thought of this, but I'll ask. Can you expand the current

house?

>> Probably could, but we're a little bit leerary of it because it was built in 1945, and I don't think the foundation is all that. >> You just want to start from scratch to be safe.

>> I I want to add on to it, but I was advised by a cousin of mine who is a builder, >> and he said, "That wouldn't be very smart. >> You may as well just build a new house and tear it down." Ohhuh.

>> Because he said that you're still in a 1945 farmhouse with a foundation that

was poured in 1945. He said, "So anytime you go to sell that, they're going to look at that." >> Have you looked into, and I'm only going through stuff that I would go through if I were you. Have you looked into a foundation company to see what the real reel is to get under there and take a look and go, "Okay, what kind of shape is it in?" And then what would it take to get it up to up to par?

>> Yeah. I actually thought about um because I used to work in excavation, I thought about just getting an excavator and digging around, but they're 7 foot

tall walls cuz it's a basement.

>> That's not my recommendation. My recommendation was getting somebody out there who's a specialist in this and let's get a real picture of what we're dealing with because here's my >> I was just going to dig around it and then have them look at it. >> Oh, okay. Gotcha. Well, you don't have any money to go buy money. >> Oh, I see. Yeah. The issue is as it stands currently with basically no payments, we can't put away a dollar.

And so I'm real nervous to get into this project only to realize you can't afford it and afford the ongoing, you know, payments that come along with that. It's going to sink you guys. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I kind of already knew that. >> So the the question mark is income. Can we get the income up to be able to

>> stay where I am until we grow?

>> What would it cost to rent in your area?

Uh something like this is not even heard of and we farm. So um >> is the farm producing income?

>> Yeah. Not much, but it it pays it pays

more than double of taxes and irrigation. >> So when you said we're not we can't leave here until we grow, what did you mean by that?

>> Oh, I thought you asked me about my income going up. >> Sorry. Yeah, your income go I apologize.

Yes, we're looking for variables that can shift here.

>> Yes, I just I worked at the company for a month and got they gave me as big a raise as they possibly could, >> but we are bidding on a bunch more contracts right now and when we get those then I will go into the general manager position and I will get another increase. >> What kind of work do you do? >> Right now I have no no landscaping.

>> Can you do side work and and build up some more income? Because my point is this, as George said, you building a house and going to get a construction loan is is a no non-starter. That doesn't make any sense. And yet, it's going to also cost money to expand your current home >> because you need more income in order to fix your living situation.

>> And the more income is step one, then we start figuring out, do we renovate? Is that even doable? Is it even feasible with the foundation and all the things with a 1945 house or is it But here's

the problem. If no one's going to buy your current house, you are in fact stuck with it and then your best move is to renovate it and you get to keep 13 acres and all the things. I'm leaning towards trying to renovate it and and >> otherwise you're lowering the price until someone's willing to buy and use that cash to buy something and you know, >> but more income has got to happen.

>> Either way, the income needs to go up.

But the question mark is, do we keep it and try to do something with it or just keep lowering the price until we sell it? Are you working with a good real estate pro on this?

>> Yeah. >> What are their thoughts? >> Sold me this house and helped me sell my first house. >> Why do they think it's not moving?

>> Um, he doesn't know. He said it's kind of blown his mind. I think it's high personally, but I do too. >> There's no comps out here. >> I I think it's crazy. It's over half a million dollars. I understand it's 13 acres, but it's a rinky dink house. It's super small. >> They're not buying it for the house. So again, >> got a renovated tiny home on it, >> which isn't going to add a lot of value.

It's got a shop on it.

>> No, that's not going to add anything to it. That thing's going down. >> How old are your kids?

>> My oldest is 11. Youngest is four.

>> Well, the 11y old can live in the tiny house. That'll free up some room.

>> One problem solved. He'll love it out there. Just put it in the backyard. You can see him. >> She She She won't love it out there.

>> She She will not. Never mind. Never mind. Your smoothest, easiest path out of this is to keep lowering the price and you sell it for 500 instead of 570 and now we live to fight another day and the dream of building on this land we'll have to put away for now.

>> Yeah. >> But because you got five kids in a in a dilapidated house that just worries me to keep living like this for another few years. >> Yep. Got to get >> kind of talking it down. It's not actually in that bad a shape but >> Well, but the point is you got to lower the price. I think their instinct kids in 1100 square ft. Something's got to give. >> Yeah. Woo.

>> It ain't a shack, but it might be close to it once you get seven people living in there. >> Yeah, that's tough stuff. Oh, good

stuff. Wow. Thanks for the call. All right, folks. Well, remember, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 10. Are You Investing in Tomorrow or Robbing It? | September 24, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_0Fdp21v0s) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:48 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you

transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken

Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today.

Open phones here at 888255225.

Joseph is in Orlando. Hi, Joseph. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. So, I'm in the current situation, but um before I get into it, I just want to say I'm a big fan. I've been watching your show for quite a while. Um, >> thank you. >> Yes. Um, so I am 31, my wife is 26.

Um, and I read the Total Money Makeover

book, and I want to pretty much get out

of debt. I have about, well, we have

about 62 65,000 in debt, and I'm trying to convince her to stop using credit cards.

But um she just doesn't want to. She

keeps saying that she wants to get points that there's benefits to it and

I'm trying to convince her that um we need to try to stick to a budget and you know to get rid of the debt. I had a plan to get rid of it in about two and a half years but we keep pretty much we're

just stuck in baby step one. I can't even get like a thousand for the emergency savings and uh we keep um running out of money and then having to

use the emergency fund. And >> how long have you all been married?

>> Um it's we're about three and a half years of marriage. >> And what what's your household income?

>> Um together it's 115.

>> Okay. Well, you did the classic man

mistake.

Women seldom make this mistake, but men often make it in this exact conversation. The man mistake that I have made in my younger years. I don't do it anymore. And the one that you made was you read something and got some new information that she doesn't have.

Became inspired and then walked into the room and announced what we're going to do instead

of talking about why we're going to do

it. So, let's start again. Walk into the

room and say, "Honey, I'm sorry. I goofed up. I'm really excited about this

idea of getting out of debt because I'm really terrified of where we are right now. We make $115,000.

We owe $65,000 in debt. We can't even

keep $1,000 in our account because we do

such a bad job of handling money." And this is terrifying me.

I need your help to look at that and dream with me about what it would be like to have no debt, to have a plan

that we are both in agreement on on

where we're going, and then we will decide how we're going to get there together.

When she when she says, "Yes, I believe being debtree is the shortest path to wealth." Now she's caught up to you,

but you're you're also the only one doing the budget. You're the only one handling the money. And she's acting like a little girl over here. And daddy's got her on an allowance and he gave her some credit cards. Now he's trying to take them back.

>> Um I mean >> the credit cards represent the credit cards represent unlimited. I get to do whatever the hell I want to do. That's what they represent.

and you're trying to take that away from her with no reason because she doesn't she doesn't why would I why would you ever give up that? I mean, you ought to just run for Congress, you know, >> and so, um, just spend everything in sight, you know, there's no reason. But if we're going to both be grown-ups and we're both going to look at a future we both want to attain and we both are willing to pay a price to get to that future, then easily we start doing away with credit card usage because it's not going to take you to your future.

And no air no no millionaire ever in the history of man has ever said, "You know, Dave, the way I made all my money was airline miles." >> Right? >> That's the biggest load of bull crap I ever heard in my life.

>> Yeah. I mean, I've had difficult conversations with her before and uh I

sort of let her know like how much we have in debt. Like we want we both want to get out of debt, but um I don't

>> I know I >> You want to get out of debt? She doesn't want to get out of debt.

>> I mean, she says she she wants to, but

she doesn't get want to get on board. I want to use credit cards and spend money we don't have and blow up the budget is not somebody that wants to get out of debt.

>> Yeah, >> that's not true. Okay. I I want what I want. And if if we can also get out of debt while I get what I want, then that's okay. >> What What Let's circle back because I I I've got a thought process for you, but one question. What makes you I know what Dave says and Dave's right. She didn't want it bad enough. Uh but what makes you tell us that she wants to get out of debt? What response has she given you to make you say that?

>> Um, well, when we talk about like our future and like even um including kids

into, you know, to start having kids, um, one of the things she says is she wants to get out of debt first before we attempt. >> Okay, great. >> So, all right. So, the the Dave's right though, she doesn't want it bad enough to change what she's doing.

So, uh, here's a here's a process that I think will work, but you're going to have to stay with it. And you don't do them all at the same time, but you're going to have to talk to her. As Dave said, go back to the example Dave gave you. Hey babe, I apologize.

I threw this at you too quick. Let me tell you about how I feel and why I feel this way. And you're going to talk about the problem of being broke, the problem of debt, and you got to get really detailed with her. Don't try to solve it, but you got to get her to a point where she begins to feel as bad about the debt as you feel.

bad about this problem, >> it's keeping us from having >> then you start talking about, "All right, here's the solution." And then that's the second part. Solution only comes after someone agrees with you on the problem. Then the last piece is here's the reason for the solution. able for you to come home and and not uh work outside the home, to have kids, for us to be millionaires, uh you know, and things like that. So, that's the process. You got to bring her along. And I just think you jumped it too quickly.

>> Yeah. You need to dream in HD, highdefin

dreams, detailed dreams, and then immediately the human brain starts saying, "If that's my desired future, what must be true for me to get there?" >> And one of those things is very simple.

Quit spending money. you don't have using credit cards. Hello, that's obvious then. Okay, but behavior is a language. Her behavior says she's not

willing to do that right now. Her behavior by defending the defenseless

stupid credit card is is um that's the

behavior that says I'm not on board. She can say with her mouth she's on board, but her actions scream that she's not.

And so the two of you need to have a dream that is so big and so clear and so

detailed that you're willing to sacrifice to get to that dream. And you're willing to pay a price to get to that dream. And that's living on a detailed written budget. That's not borrowing money. That's not using credit cards. That's changing the way you handle and talk about money in your house. It's all of those things. Joseph,

thank you, sir.

[Music]

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[Applause]

Brooke is in West Virginia. Hi, Brooke.

How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing okay. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Um, well, it's been kind of crazy recently. Um, we sold our house just a month ago and we got about 65,000

now. And we just kind of decide if it's better to put most of all um or just or

none toward a new a new mortgage in this

market. That's just crazy. Um or if it's better to go towards paying off school loans and a car. Um half of my husband's

school loans are like significant higher than the other half. He's got We're breaking up something fierce. Can you get to where your phone actually works?

>> Can you hear me right now? >> Yes, ma'am. The uh So, how much debt do you have?

>> Um 75,000 in school loans and then about

14 in car. >> Okay. And you have 65k in your pocket from the sale of the house?

>> Yes. >> You have any other money saved?

Um, we have maybe like $1,000 in cash

just for like an emergency or something.

But >> my husband is um also getting ready to start a new job where over the next year he'll be able to make up to about uh

20,000 more than he's currently making.

>> That's wonderful. Okay.

>> Yes, we're very relieved about that transition. >> So, what will your household income be at that point?

Well, we're basing our budget off of our last household income. >> No, ma'am. I'm asking what your household income will be at that point.

>> Oh. Oh, sorry. I was thinking budget. Um household income at that point would probably be anywhere between 65 and 70,000 a year. We're a single um income family. >> Okay. So, he was making 50. Now, he's going to be making 70.

>> Yes. But it it goes over time. So, he's he's actually going to be uh still making 50 for a bit and then like every

few months it's going to go up with um training. >> Oh, I see. And how long before he gets to 70?

>> It would be a year. Yeah. So, it it wouldn't be >> And why did you sell the house?

>> Um well, we were trying to move to be closer to family. Um there were some things that just weren't working for where we lived. >> He took a job near family. this new job.

>> Uh well, yes. I mean, he well, he was already working at the um the place where he's working uh now is going to be

at the same place where he was working before. It's a hospital, so he didn't have to like change. >> Okay. So, how far away were you before?

And how far what is closer? Are you were

you a long way from the hospital before?

No, it was about 20 minutes, but we were

just we are in the opposite direction of where everything is. Things are kind of more semi-ural around here. And so we

wanted to we have young kids. We wanted to be able to be like around more family. Um >> how far away was your family?

>> They were not as far as um like they

were probably 10 to 20 minutes in the opposite direction. So to be anybody it was 30 to 45 minutes maybe.

>> I'm so confused. Okay.

>> What was the plan? What before this call started? >> Yeah. Before Before you called me, what were you going to do?

>> Uh we were thinking about putting 20%

down on a mortgage, pay off the car, and

put the rest toward the loan.

>> Okay. And and buy a house for how much money?

We were looking uh we don't want to go

up to 150. We were actually hoping to go as low as possible.

>> What did your other house sell for?

>> It sold for 129.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're moving up in house and you're moving while you're in debt and that was your plan.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Uh yeah. Yeah, I mean 20% down and uh pay off the car, put them some towards the student loan, make the move happen. Um

and yeah, I guess you accomplish all your goals that way with the $20,000 extra then we tear into the student loan and finish it off, right?

>> Um we Sorry, 20,000 extra.

>> Yeah, you have $20,000 extra income by the end of the year. >> Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah, let's let's use that and anything else we can squeeze out of the budget and him working extra.

How many kids have you got?

>> Uh, two. >> Okay. And you working extra? Are you working from home?

>> So, everybody starts working. Everybody starts making money and we clean up this freaking mess.

Otherwise, you don't move up in house.

You go rent something cheap and you clean up this freaking mess. One of the two. >> Okay. >> But you need to clean up the freaking mess.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. period. If you put 20% down, that that's not a bad plan. What you propose is not a bad plan. I don't like the idea that, hey, I'm going to move up in house >> and that's going to get me out of debt. That doesn't get you out of that. That put you in more debt. Okay? So, but it's not a huge amount. It's not going to keep you from, you know, from winning overall.

Uh, but I I think both of you commit to working as many hours as possible, creating as much income as you can create in the following 12 months after you buy this house. And the price we're going to pay for this move is we're going to commit to cleaning up this mess fast. >> Fast. >> Okay.

>> And that that's the tradeoff. Okay. All right. We get a new house, but we're not we're not buying new furniture and we're we're not going to renovate the house and we're not going to be doing a bunch of work to the house.

We're going to be getting out of debt.

>> Yeah. The only thing I'm looking at here is so you've we've we've coached her well, but I want people to make sure that they're always paying attention to the cost of your education versus the income possibilities that are

clearly clearly tied to this degree.

Here's an example where you got a guy who's been making 50K. He's got a chance now to move up, but $75,000 student loan

to get into a $50,000 job. I and again I

don't know all the details but I just think we've got to start looking at this stuff and that's what kind of gave me pause. I feel bad but this is the message and so I'm kind of this is more of a preemptive for a large audience.

>> Be smart about what you think you should be spending in return for what you think you're getting. >> Education, especially when you're taking out student loans, which we tell you not to do, is not a luxury. It is an investment

>> and an investment should have a return on investment. So if you spend $250,000 getting a master's degree in sociology and you take a job with the state as a social worker making 38 grand, that's the definition of stupid.

That's just dumb. Okay? You can make 38

grand working at Target stocking shelves

and you don't have to have a master's degree and $250,000 in debt to do it. So just don't make that trade. That's Ken's point. It's a bad trade. >> Yeah. I just think this >> study something. If you're going to spend the money to go to college, study

something that's going to give you a return on investment. Get a degree.

Develop a skill. Develop a knowledge base in a career field that's going to cause you to make a lot of money because you're spending a lot of money to get this knowledge base. >> Yeah. >> The degree doesn't it's your your degree is worthless, but the knowledge base has a value.

you know, actually having a masters in accounting is absolutely zero value. But

knowing how to do accounting at the mast's level so that you can get a CPA, well, that has a value, a marketplace value. The the actual knowledge base has value. >> Yeah. I also want to call back to something you said here, uh, because Brook's still listening here.

The renting option I thought was a really good call out because they're in a uh they're in an area where housing is not very expensive although it's relative to the incomes there and in this situation renting for a bit may not be a bad idea to clean up this debt and he gets the raise. So I I like that you brought that up as a possibility.

>> That's where I was >> and clean it all up. That that's the kind of thing a lot of people do. Mhm.

>> Uh the other one is not I think that's wiser to Ken's point. Uh the other one's

not in the stupid column. It's just not as smart as that is. >> Yeah. >> But it's a two it's a double move which I kind of think you've already moved again anyway. I can't figure out as her where she's living but they already sold the house. They've already got the 65.

Right. So where are you living pretail?

I got a feeling mama's basement but we'll see. Okay. So um we'll just figure it out from there. But either way that that's I didn't ask so I don't know.

[Music]

[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]

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[Music]

>> Cassandra is with us in Ohio. Hi Cassandra. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing okay, I guess.

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help you ma'am? Yes. So, my husband was a CDL

driver for a company and he um and was

fired at his workplace for workplace gossip and petty reasons. He's currently working three jobs and at a time where there should be so many jobs for CDLA drivers and there isn't. Um we've been struggling and we're wondering how we can put our money to good use.

>> Um how how long ago was he fired? He was

fired August 28th.

>> Oh, okay. Couple weeks back. All right.

Y >> All right. Well, I disagree. There's lots of CDL drivers positions out there.

They're everywhere. >> They are dying >> for CDL help >> out there. >> He just hasn't found it.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> We we had uh got in contact with a few different uh CDL places. um whole bunch

of different transportation services and they said that they couldn't hire him because he was fired for he was fired.

So they can't hire him unless he's had a job for a year afterwards.

>> That's not true. >> Which >> he wasn't fired he wasn't fired for any kind of driving violation >> is what you told me.

>> Nope. >> He was fired because he's running his mouth, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay. Has he learned his lesson on that? by the way.

>> Um he lives he worked in a private

business with um cultural differences

and the workplace gossip wasn't his fault. He didn't have anything to say on it. He wasn't even talking about it. He had a few people that did not like him for him having basically a hard to work with work ethic.

>> You're a sweet wife.

I don't think you got the real story and you believed it.

>> But anyway, I'm going to ask him if he's on the phone, did he learn his lesson or not? But it shouldn't keep you from getting a driving job if you're running your mouth, >> right? It >> he did not he did not hit something. He did not wreck something. He did not hurt someone. He did not get convicted of a DUI. All of those things are things that keep you from disqualify you from using your CDL.

>> Correct, >> Coleman? >> Yeah. I I think here this is where he can't do the traditional applying for jobs thing because of this type of situation when people don't have the whole story uh or they're worried or they're trying to protect themselves. There's always a filtering whether it's a human filter or AI.

So in this case, what he has to do is this is him working harder than he's ever worked before to make a personal connection with people so they know the story. And he's got to own it, by the way. Like he's got to own it. There is no spin because they people react like Dave reacted and I was feeling the same thing.

I don't want to hear some hard to prove story.

Here's what I learned and you know you eat the humble pie right in front of people and but what they really need is they need somebody they can rely on to get the truck from point A to point B. So this is where he's making every connection that he's ever had. Uh he is working it. It's not just applying online. He is actually sitting down with people. Uh because I'm telling you, if I

were to draw a line, a circle around your house, 30 minutes each way, just total circumference. I'm telling you, there are people who need somebody like your husband that they can depend on to get trucked from point A to point B. But he's got to find it. It's like a scavenger hunt on steroids talking to real people. That's how you get out of this. Now, tell us what he was making

and tell us what he's making with these three jobs.

>> So, he was making $27 an hour with a lot

of overtime.

And that would come to I'm guessing anywhere between 5,000 to 5,500

a month, sometimes less. Um, and with

these three jobs, he's working one job at a remodeling for $15 an hour.

And another job for hauling uh for an

Amish family for hauling produce and

that pays about $7 a pallet which in a

week he can get about $500 from that.

And then um for his other job, he works temporarily until wintertime comes for a

person who does CDL hauling for a uh

like large equipment and that pays $25 an hour and he only gets those jobs

maybe a few hours a day.

>> Okay. So it's only been a couple weeks.

So he's making what? Roughly half of what he was making before.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Right. So >> So that's not why >> there's two two answers to the question.

One is do all the stuff Ken's talking about and go get the new job. Okay. And that means hanging out at a truck stop and walking up to guys at the truck stop and going, "Hey, you know anybody's hiring? I got a CDL.

I'm looking for work." >> Yeah. >> And then you go, "Hey, George." You don't have to tell them you met George 10 minutes ago. George told me you were hiring over here. Okay.

Henry told me you were hiring over here. Okay. And you go knock on the door and you go get the job.

The second part is your original question is you have to prioritize your budget and we take care of necessities.

When we were in the seventh grade, they used to teach a class called civics and they would teach you what are necessities. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. So, we have to put food on the table first. And that's not going out to eat. You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You're broke. Okay? So, we're buying groceries.

That's it. >> That's all food. And you're cooking from scratch. It's healthier and it's cheaper. Okay.

>> Clothing. You're probably okay. You probably got enough clothes in the closet. The kids probably got enough clothes in the closet to make it a few months. You're probably okay. And if if somebody's got their toe sticking out of one of the shoes, buy some shoes. But really, most people are okay on clothes.

Most people have way okay on clothes.

Okay. The third thing is you pay the rent or the house payment.

So, food and house payment, >> minor purchases of clothing, gasoline in

the car, and car payment if there's a car payment. >> Mhm. >> You got enough coming in to do that, >> right? >> And then some of the other stuff is probably not going to get done right now.

>> But it but you eat, you have a place to live, you keep the lights and water on, keep your utilities going, >> and you keep gas in the car, and he starts looking for a better position.

But I would not let the words come out of my mouth again. I would not speak

this lie over your life that no one's

hiring CDL drivers in your area who have been fired for a non-driving violation.

That is not a true statement and you should never say that again. You should say, "We haven't found the person yet who is hiring a CDL driver who has been fired for gossip, but they are around here somewhere. We just haven't found them yet." And that is a true statement.

>> And uh it's and it's hard to find them.

That's a true statement. I'm okay with that. But and we're out here scratching and clawing. That's a true statement.

And he's not lazy. He went and got three jobs. Way to go, dude. Yeah.

>> What a good guy. >> Okay. And um but I would never say in

the interview ever again, cultural differences. And he worked hard and they didn't so they hated him and fired him.

That I would not say stuff like that.

That doesn't that's not very appealing to a potential employer. Say, "Listen, I was accused of gossip. I may have said something I shouldn't have said. I don't know. It's not who I am. I'm a hardworking guy. Let's go. Let's go drive some truck." And I would just leave it at that, man. >> That's right. >> Just own it a little bit and move on.

But I wouldn't try to throw it back on them that they cultural different then

they're trying to figure out, well, what cultural differences have you got with me? You know, like hard work and what's your cultural differences trying to figure be better off going, I worked for or worked with a couple buttholes and I was a bigger butthole apparently. People buy that. They go, "Okay, >> I've been in that situation, right? >> That could be true, too. >> They can resonate and go, all right, you had a you let it get to you." >> Yeah, we had we had a uh we had a little contest and I lost. Yeah.

So, you know, it's that that that's a real thing. Okay. I can I can buy that as a potential employer.

>> But the great news is CDL is in great

demand. >> Yeah. The great news is that you don't

have a driving violation that caused this. >> It's not in great demand. Very hard to get a job if you tore something up or hurt somebody. >> Y >> very hard. >> By the way, heavy equipment a lot of times CDL people can get those jobs because again, uh they've done through so much qualifying. So I'd be looking driving around everywhere where you see this stuff. You'd be surprised. But >> when you're delivering some of that heavy equipment, >> ask if they need somebody to drive it. >> That's right. Yeah.

Heat. Heat. [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

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John's in Raleigh. Hi, John. How are you?

>> I had a tail be wagging. Dave, how are you? >> I'd be great. Better than I deserve.

What's up?

>> So, we are facing a a question on what

to do with our home. So, for background, we bought this house in May of 2024, and at the time, our take-home was about 10,000 a month, and our monthly payment was between 25% and 30%. as y'all would

suggest. But, uh, some things have changed in our life since then.

Primarily, we have a new baby. So, she's four months old, and my wife has gone to part-time instead of full-time. So, our take-home pay has gone from the 10,000 down to about 7,000.

This makes our um uh monthly payment be

around 40% of our take-home. And we've

also had a few other uh new circumstances such as like our our neighbors have completely gone off the rails it seems. And um

we're really considering moving both to

lower monthly payment as well as to uh

maybe get into a slightly better situation.

We have identified three options that we would like to do. So, the first being just stay where we are and refinance when rates drop and try and uh try and just lower that monthly payment, maybe even recasting our mortgage because we have a fairly uh significant amount of cash liquid right now that we could uh put a significant down payment on there to lower the monthly payment or to move to a smaller situation where we'll have that around that 25%.

>> Okay, you make seven. How long before you make 10?

Um probably in the next four to five

years, three to four maybe.

>> Okay.

What does your wife do for a living?

>> So she is in data analysis. She works

for an agrochemical company and uh so she does that from home which has been very convenient with the baby.

>> Okay. But she's gone to part-time hours.

She has and she would she's expressed that she would like to to just be full-time stay-at-home mom because it's it's just been wonderful having the baby and something we really enjoy and if we

can make that work financially that would be nice.

>> How much cash do you have?

>> Uh about 150,000 liquid.

>> What do you I want >> uh 360. >> Where'd you get the 150?

Um, so a little bit we've we were been

very frugal over the course of our life, but uh I want to >> Why didn't you put it down on the house in the first place?

>> Um, I think we were a little scared. I mean, we we were very conservative.

>> And now you figured out what to be scared of is the payment, not the cash.

>> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

>> What's your interest rate?

Uh 7.375, which is not great.

>> Yeah, you can get a 57 now.

>> Yeah, >> that's a point and a half shift.

>> Yeah, I'd refinance it and put the 150 on it and just stay there. Unless the neighbors are so crazy that you have to move.

>> Maybe hold a little cash back to build a fence. I don't know.

>> True. True. Yeah. I mean, it's been

multiple arrests and >> large evergreen trees. I don't know. I mean, >> yes.

that grow fast. >> I mean, is there any safety issues for you? Do you fear for your family safety because of all this nonsense? >> Um, there there have been times, I mean, explosions that have shaken our house.

And >> are they running a crack house over there? >> Yes. >> For real? >> Yeah. Yeah. For real. It was >> What price is your house?

>> It It was 500,000. And this is not an issue when we bought it.

>> It's I'm not speaking for Dave. This is not an official show response. My response is if I knew that what you're telling me, I'd be out.

>> I'm not going to keep my family there.

>> It takes one crazy night. >> The whole thing could explode.

>> Yeah. >> For real. >> There's a there's a little bit of a uh change. There's a new owner. Somebody bought it, but they're allowing the guy that continued to live there to continue as a living estate. He's >> Well, then it's still a problem >> on the on the precipice of death. But

yes, so >> he's on the precipice of death and he's running a crack house. What is this?

Breaking Bad.

>> It's It could be a half hour show right here. >> Yeah. I'm just I'm hearing this. This is amazing. >> Well, if you think your family's in danger, it's a no-brainer. Mic drop. I'm out of there. Okay. If you think you're you can outlive the guy and outlast him

and survive and uh he's either going to blow himself up or die or whatever is happening to him. Good lord. Um, and you

want to stay there, then recast the mortgage. But I wouldn't recast the mortgage and then move two months later.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> That's throwing good money after bad. If you recast the mortgage, you're staying.

>> And can we recast the mortgage and get the lower interest rate or >> No, you just have to refinance. It's not a recast. You refinance. You reset the mortgage. You refinance it on new 15year, start again with 150 more down

and then suddenly you can afford the payment.

>> Yeah, for sure. That's if you want to stay there. If you don't want to stay there, that's okay. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with either option moving down. Uh she does not like the house

enough to be willing to work a few hours a day to keep it. She doesn't like it

that much. Yeah. I forgot to ask how she feel about this the nuts next door. I

I'm telling you right now, Stacy would have already made that decision for me.

>> You'd be done, huh? >> Well, yeah. It's just why play with fire

if it's as bad as he says and I believe him. >> I I >> I just don't get it why you would leave your family there. >> Yeah. I I if if you think you're in danger, you're out of there that instant. I mean, I don't know how it

sounds very bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're in danger, you should leave. No question. All other parts of the conversation aside, very simple. If you're in danger, and track crackouses do explode. The whole thing can blow up.

I mean, it's very explosive. So, >> yeah. Um I >> if I have a wife at home with a newborn baby and that kind of stuff is going on, you just never know when it spills over beyond their >> I have any hope that the guy's going to be gone in a short period of time, that's different. But short being a month or two, I I can deal with it for a month or two.

But but if I think he's going to I have deal with this for three years, no. Uhuh.

>> Yeah, >> I agree. I agree with you. I'm not arguing with that. >> Very interesting.

>> Wow. >> I mean, what I would put up with didn't have on my bingo card this morning.

Yeah. >> There there's that rule. You know, what I would put up with is very different than what Stacy would put up with. And that's the issue. You know, it's like if she >> Happy wife, happy life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Safe wife, happy life.

>> There's that, too. >> That one, too. Yeah.

>> I just I'm afraid my wife would shoot back.

>> No, here's what Sharon would do. Sharon would walk over there and knock on the door and have a word with the young man and not and not in a mean because she's not a mean person. She's a straight shooter, but she's not mean. But I see her just kind of wagging her finger.

>> Young man, >> you're not making good life choices.

>> Steel Magnolia here. Whezzy is knocking on your door next door, right?

>> Yeah. And he probably listened to her.

>> Yeah. He's probably scared to death if he knows what's good for him. >> That's right.

little little East Tennessee fable. She tells a story, >> you know, >> about the time that a guy died doing this, you know. It's like, yeah, we used to have a neighbor that did stuff like this and nobody knows where he is now.

>> Now he goes by one leg, Larry. You know, now you know why. >> Can't find the boy. We don't know what happened to him. It's the strangest thing.

>> People have a way of dealing with those things in the holler. >> Breaking Bad is next door. The guy is dying. He sells the house. He's got a life estate and he's doing making crack

next door. Breaking Bad.

>> I didn't see that one today. I didn't see that one coming. >> I was not on my bingo card this morning. >> I thought he was joking until he wasn't.

>> No, he wasn't joking. >> No. >> He said neighbors off the rails, but we didn't know which rails. Yeah, >> right. >> Wow. Bless your heart, man.

>> The more we laugh about this, the more it's not funny. I'd move. I would just move. >> Yikes. >> Yeah, I'd move. And just accomplish several birds with one stone. Yeah.

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Shay is in Idaho. Hi, Shay. How are you?

>> Hi there. I'm glad to be speaking with you, Dave and Ken. I'm very grateful for your ministry. >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

>> Yeah. My question is around the enjoyment side of money. Um my husband and I both struggle with that and

specifically around planning and booking vacations. Um when that time comes around, I just start to feel so much like anxiety and like shame um about

spending so much money on something. um

it's just hard for us and so I was wondering if you had any tips.

>> Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle. Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped and that's how you got here. Thank goodness.

But you've you've not you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while

you were flexing your frugal muscle.

Agreed?

>> Probably. Yeah. >> So, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Um, I speak from experience.

Um, I mean the I I had a hard time buying a decent car, you know, and now I

don't have any trouble at all.

>> That has been our struggle as well.

>> Yeah. The second the second thing is um

I look at ratios

and um the ratios are what percentage of

our world are we actually spending and how does it compare to our generosity?

So we look over here and we say our generosity equals X. >> And this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small small small percentage

of what we make and what we give.

>> Okay? >> And so my heavenly father who's crazy

about me says if we being evil know how

to give our children good things, how much more so our father in heaven wants

us to have good things. in other words.

And so, um, you know, God's not mad if I

enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous and while

the amount of money it feels like a lot

cuz it's compared weirdly emotionally to the old days, but as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount.

And that that's you know the ratio thing, the generosity thing and uh the

acknowledgement. So another example of that is okay around Ramsey we have 1100

team members. We're in 650,000

square feet.

>> We spend more we we furnish coffee. We

have coffee these grinding coffee machines on every floor, right? That make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right? And they don't pay for it. It's free to all the team members.

We spend more on coffee than I made in a

year most of my life.

That still freaks me out. You know,

>> it's still a problem. But it's just a matter of scale and ratio and but it's a very small percentage of what Ramsay the organization has coming in in revenues.

So obviously we're not being irresponsible. We're not going to have to shut down because of our coffee. It's not even close. And that's the case, I'm guessing. What's your all's net worth, Shay?

>> Um, over a million.

>> And what what is your household household income?

>> Um, my husband makes 120 and I make

around 50. >> So 170 with a million. And what are you talking about spending on a trip?

>> They just get more expensive every year.

>> We know you're talking about spending on a trip. Uh like 12 to 15.

>> Yeah. Well, it's it's absurdly small percentage of your world.

>> Is that you, Hubs? The kids?

>> While we were talking about this, the million dollars made you 12.

>> It's true. >> Who's going on the trip?

>> All six of us, >> right? How old are the kids?

>> Oh, sorry. They're 6, 8, 10, and 11.

>> Okay. As a guy who has who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm going to give you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame

about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal. So, here's what I want you to think of. Return versus regret. What's the return on that

investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30

years from now? What's the return on those memories and all of the things all right talk about it >> versus the regret >> if you don't take those kinds of trips with those six and then they get out and and I think return versus regret. You've already proven you're frugal. So Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending. But you've got to play those words out. What's the return on this trip? And then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money?

>> Yeah. but very few memories and experiences. >> Hey, the the return versus the regret

does not work if you're borrowing the money to do it, boys and girls out there in in radio land. Hello. Okay, good.

Good point. Yes. >> So, this lady's a millionaire making 170 and she's going to write a check for this. Don't use the same argument, I put $12,000 on my credit card cuz Kleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation. No, you'd be you'd be regretting being stupid if you did that.

>> Thank you for clarifying that. That is within the context of you have cash.

Yeah, you have the money. It's a small percentage of your world. And I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip. >> Mhm. >> I suspect most people who get where you are, their generosity is there.

>> So, hey, you're doing a good job. Enjoy the ride. >> Yeah. >> So, folks, there's uh this is where this falls under the reason I have to stop and clarify that is right. Live like no one else. So that >> that's correct. and she's at the so that later you can live and give like no one

else. >> But the truth is what I spend or what

someone who has accumulated some wealth

is a small percentage of of our wealth

is spent on consumption. Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment.

The vast majority of the money that I touch and that flow that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations or it

is invested in other ways called generosity.

>> Back into the community in some

community somewhere and and some dollar amount. A and those are the two things

that make up the vast majority. The

highest percentage by far of our income

or of our net worth is invested in those

two things. Our consumption though is still ridiculously larger than it was when we

were not making any money and didn't have any money. So it still is emotional. It still feels weird. And you

know, sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, "You're so lucky." Well,

that's a dumb butt thing to say. Luck had nothing to do with it.

>> Yeah. Don't say that around, Dave.

>> Luck had Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls getting ready to do some work. That's where luck comes in. I know where luck comes from. It's a

sweat. That's where luck comes from. I got your luck. >> Luck's when you win the raffle.

>> Yeah.

looks. When you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it, that's luck. Oh, there we go. >> Okay, but that's luck. But this is not luck. This is work >> and God's blessings. God God just deciding in his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow us

to be sitting here. So, but don't call it luck. It's insulting to God and it's insulting to my calluses.

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[Music]

Allan is in New York. Hi Allan. How are you?

>> Very good. And yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, my wife and I u we're we're both

semi-retired. Uh I retired a while uh

eight years ago and then I work part-time for the company I retired from as a consultant and my wife works a couple days a week. Um we are getting

ready to uh sell our house. It's too big for us, downsize, that type of thing. We have a place in Florida that we're going to go to. But in the meantime, our children are grown and they're all over the world. And we have one in uh Colorado who a while

back they uh asked us, you know, hey,

you know, it' be great if you guys would come out here and stay with us for a while and do things and blah blah blah.

And we said, sure, that'd be great. And they didn't have a house, so they were looking for one. We entered into an agreement that we would uh give them money for a down payment. some they had

half we had some and uh the agreement

kind of fell apart here. Uh now they're

there's some animosity a little bit and

they want to pay us back. We we sent the

the money which was $117,000

as a gift. We did the gifting uh uh

paperwork.

uh they bought their house and uh now they want out and they said they want to pay us back and I'm just concerned about

oh one thing is taxes and I we haven't

kind of really gotten into the meat of it yet. I'm concerned about where they're going to get the money from and I think they'd take it out of their retirement accounts which I don't want them to do and I'm just looking for some advice what your thoughts are.

So, you're partners in the house? It was not a gift. >> No, no, we're we're not partners in the house. >> What's the agreement you're referring to?

>> Well, we they bought a house with a finished basement with, you know, two

bedrooms, bathroom down there, family room, uh different things. Uh you know, and space for us where we could come for

two, three months out of the year.

>> Oh, so the agreement was you could live in the basement 3 months a year.

>> Yeah. And now they don't want you to because they're mad. What What do they What did they get mad about?

>> No, they What happened was they they decid we we told them right up front, we said, "Listen, we need our own space.

There'll be times when we'll get on each other's nerves. We know we don't need to be together 24/7. We'd like a place to cook some meals so we don't have to all eat together all the time." And it we

agreed to that. Then they bought a place and they said, "Well, it's not as big as we'd hoped, so we're going to have to, you know, share that space and that's not going to work." And some of them u

they it it just fell apart. And so now

they're >> What's the animosity?

>> The animosity is u Well, it's really

just that uh uh we said, "Well, no, the

agreement was this." And they said, "Well, no, we we told you that changed." And we said, "No, you didn't." >> And so it grew from there. And they said, "Well, we don't >> So what is your net worth?" >> Um, well, we have we we have no debt.

Um, >> what's your net worth?

>> Uh, I would say almost three million.

Uh, we have absolutely no debt. We have IAS. I have an IRA with 1.5, another one

with 400. >> Yeah. an um >> I'll tell you what I would do.

>> I'll tell you what I would do.

>> I would call him up and say, "I'm really sorry. I entered into a really stupid idea. The whole thing we started doing was a bad idea." Cuz it really was a bad

idea. Your agreement was really a bad

idea. And I would just tell them that it was a bad idea. And you know what? We're just going to forgive the debt and you don't have to let us stay there. We won't ever stay there. We'll stay in a hotel when we come visit or we'll get a condo when we come visit. We've got plenty of money. The money doesn't matter. We don't need a place to stay.

You don't need to live in somebody's basement when you have $3 million.

>> Yeah. >> Bad idea.

>> Yeah, we know now. We >> So, just let them off the hook, dude.

>> Yeah. That was >> a screwed up mess. >> Yeah. It sounds to me like they're paying you back out of spite because of the way that everything went down.

>> Well, they they didn't like you that you argued with them about where the kitchen was. I think you got to be the parents here. >> And I know your feelings are hurt and I'm not. >> This is not about Dave and I taking a position. No, hold on. But you got to hear this. >> Yeah, I am taking a position. >> Well, I'm saying a who's right and who's wrong in there argument. Oh, you are?

>> Yeah. Yeah. This is a dumb idea and it needs to be something. I just It's out of $3 million 117,000. Forget it. Just

walk away. It was a dumb idea.

>> Yeah. Be the parent is what I'm getting at here. And just take the high road and let them off the hook and solve this thing. >> Say, you know what? I'm sorry. I didn't think about how screwed up this was going to be. It's only a h 100red grand.

Screw it. You can have it. I'll just get an apartment. I'll get a condo >> when I come to Colorado or I won't. And I don't worry about it. It's okay.

Forget it. I shouldn't have. You should cuz you should not have asked for this to be the deal. >> Yeah. >> It's a bad idea. Did I mention that?

>> You did clearly. I thought you covered it from every angle.

What what is it you were going to add before I so rudely interrupted you?

>> I did. I that he needs to take the high road here. Okay. >> And and and and my point was saying who did what and all that irrelevant. You as

the parents realize you did a dumb thing and put them in a tough position cuz when they changed your mind, you got your feelings hurt. I think you got to go, you know what? >> Uh let's just let this thing go away and be the bigger person here so that Christmas and Thanksgiving isn't awkward. My gosh. I just think I'm I'm

looking at how and I'll brag on my in-laws for a second. They have for years and years and years. Stacey and I've been married 27 years. They have always taken a position where they never ever wanted us to feel pressure about anything. And I just really admire that.

And I I didn't plan to say that, but I'm telling you as an experience, that's how we want to be. >> You mean you're going to their house for Christmas? You mean you're going to their house for Thanksgiving? That didn't come up, huh?

>> Okay. >> That's right. No, because they've always said you guys do for your family, >> right? Yeah.

And they didn't keep score either. >> I'm telling you, it's a thing. And so, yeah, Sharon and I, we made a decision early on. Uh, when in doubt, go over there, >> right?

>> Yeah. >> Go to the other one. When in doubt, it's okay. It's okay.

That's exactly It's going to work out.

Yeah. But this is only 100,000, Allan.

And really you guys uh you cheaped out

when you thought you were getting a place to stay for 3 months a year for 100 grand. And um and you shouldn't have

done that. It was a bad idea.

>> Yeah. >> And um you you put you put a pressure on something that shouldn't have been there. And it good news is you got plenty of net worth. >> If it was your if it was a big percentage of your world, we might have to discuss how they can pay you back.

But I would not allow them to pay you back. rent a house down the street. Then you got your own place, >> you know, for >> which is even better. You leave the grandkids with them screaming and crying.

You go back to your little >> I think I think this one's broken. I'm going to hand it back to you. I just This one's crying. I >> I don't think this one's working right now.

I think I'll let you handle it. >> Can you imagine David Sharon in in Rachel's basement and you're cooking away down there. You decide it's uh whatever night and it's stinking the whole basement up.

your kids' basement for three months.

>> Well, it would be different if you were broke, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. No, this was like a vacation. >> I know. >> An empty neester. Hey, we'll come spend three months with you. >> Going to come hang out just because I want to. [Music] >> Oh, it's great. >> Oh my goodness. Yeah.

>> Boundaries. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know and and so it

the other thing is um

words matter.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. A gift is not a gift if it has >> conditions. >> Yeah. >> It is a purchase in of ownership in the basement. It's not a gift. A gift has no

strings attached. So, um but yeah, that

that's the thing. So yeah, Allan, I would just please let just let it go.

Just let it go. Just just play Frozen on

the radio and let it go, you know, just like that. Just over and over and over.

>> True. That's the answer to so many relationship ills, isn't it?

>> Yeah. Just >> let it go. [Music]

ah ah.

Ah.

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Bethany is in Mississippi. Hi, Bethany.

How are you? >> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> My husband inherited an annuity

approximately 20 years ago and it is

currently worth about 233,000.

He is 72. um we keep rolling it over

into different products because we just can't quite come to grips with taking

some of the money out of it and getting a huge tax, you know, implications from

it. >> So, I didn't know if there are any ways potentially that we could if we ever

need the money, which currently we don't. We are completely debtree

and um it's a fixed index annuity and is

there ever any way to like get the money out of there without being hit on taxes so much? >> Before you said that, did you say it's a fixed annuity?

>> It is. >> Oh, gross. Okay.

>> I know. But when you inherit it, what are you going to do? >> Well, you can roll it to a variable annuity without any tax implications.

And a variable annuity is a mutual fund inside of an annuity that will give you over double the return you're getting now. >> Okay. >> So, yeah, you need to talk to one of our smart investor pros and get some help rolling it to a variable annuity.

Variable annuity simply is a a a series

of mutual funds that you can select inside of an annuity. Um, and in your

situation, that's going to be a far superior product. Um the

no there's not any way to take no there but to answer your other part of your question there's no way I know of to take the money out without paying taxes on it >> right >> and so it's a taxable yeah you've not paid taxes on the gains yet and the down

the real negative thing is is you're going to pay ordinary income not capital gains >> so it's it's much like um a traditional IRA traditional 401k when you get ready to take the money out you pay taxes on it at your income tax rate, not at uh

not at uh uh other things. So, um if you

don't need it, uh I probably would simply move it to a variable and because I'm like you, I don't want to pay those taxes, >> right? We just leave it set and then kind of forget it. >> Yeah. Set it and forget it. And and um

uh the problem is when the next generation inherits it, it's also going to be in the exact same situation.

>> So, somebody someday is going to use this money and pay taxes on it.

Okay, that's what I was afraid of

>> under under current tax law as I understand it. I don't know of any way you could do it otherwise. Um,

and the thing is it's not like you can like a a traditional 401k or IRA, you could roll that to a if

you were willing to pay the taxes, you could roll it to a Roth and it would grow from that point tax-free. You don't

have that option here. You can't move it to a Wroth. Right.

>> Um, so it's not going to grow taxree once you get it out. It's going to grow with taxes and once you get it out. So you're gonna get taxed on it and then the next year when you make money, you're gonna get taxed on it again.

>> So that's what we're facing.

>> Yeah, that's the pro. I think I'm leaving it in a variable and just do a do a roll over to that. Um, now the

variable does have three features to it.

I'm not a huge fan of it, but for you it's an excellent situation. Has three features to it that are nice. One is they most of the variable annuities nowadays have um a guaranteed minimum

rate of return which is probably about equal to your fixed.

Okay. So if you put it in mutual funds and they used to make 12 but they only made four, >> they're going to promise you at least five or whatever the number is. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And so the other thing is is that there's a guaranteed principle with most of them. So, if you move 250,000 in and

you leave it in there five or seven years or whatever the number is and it's worth a h 100,000, they're going to guarantee you the 250, the original principal. So, you're not going to lose principal and you're going to get a minimum rate of return. Third thing is

it's just like your fixed annuity. You can name a beneficiary on it and it passes outside of probate. It is not part of your federal income tax or your

federal inheritance tax exemption. And so if you've got a net worth north of 20 million and you're starting to deal with uh inheritance tax problems, then this doesn't come up. It's not a problem. It just goes straight to the beneficiary.

It's not got anything to do with the will either. You can you can't change it with the will. The w the named beneficiary is where it's going to go.

Period. And so select the name of the beneficiary carefully because that's where it's going to go. and uh no probate tax, no uh federal or there is probate tax on it possibly, but there's no federal exemption usage on that. So,

it's really it's got some nice features to it. Uh but by and large, we don't use them. But for you, where you are now, it's the better version than what you got.

Maria is in Hawaii. Hi, Maria. How are you?

>> I'm great, thank you.

>> What's up?

Um, so in 23,

thank you for taking my call, by the way. >> Sure.

>> We lost uh our home in New Laana fires

and um terrifying. Um, >> and everybody was okay. >> Yeah, thank God. Yes. Our family was fine. We lost friends, which will forever be devastating. >> Wow. What a horrible thing to go through.

>> Yeah. It's even after two years, it's still surreal. >> Oh, yeah.

Um but uh we were we're recovering and

we were very blessed that we bought a place. Um but we're trying to get back

to Lahina. Um and we're trying to figure out a house financially we can do it without going in crazy debt. We're almost at retire age and we don't want to spend a million dollars. Well, we don't have it. So, um with that being

said, um we have two wonderful children.

One's in college, out of state, and one is with us and he's going to school, but they're a little too comfortable. So,

I'm trying to put everybody on a budget and um I don't know how to do it.

>> More forcefully than you have been.

>> Yes,

>> absolutely. I mean, what what part of the budget uh is going to the kids or or

because I don't have a line item budget uh for fun stuff for my kids? They they take they take care of that, right?

Unless it's a family activity. So, let's take the college kid. What What's going on in that situation?

>> We pay for everything >> no matter what it is or when it is.

She just started working part-time and

um and I do I do take 100%

responsibility on this. It's our fault. We made their lives very comfortable.

>> Yeah, it is. Yeah. So, the bad news is the good news is uh that you woke up.

The bad news is is not going to be pleasant for them. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> No. And it already isn't because >> the conversation would sound like this if it was at our house. Okay. Hey, I owe

you an apology.

I let you live in a world that doesn't exist.

>> And I I've realized that and I'm not going to do it anymore. So in the real world there's these things called limitations.

Money is finite. In your world it's not.

And I'm now it's going to be finite starting now. Here's how much I have calculated that you need a month to eat

and to keep a place to sleep. And that's

how much I'm going to send you. I'm going to pay your rent and I'm going to send you this much for food or you're on the meal plan or you're on whatever and this is how much you're going to get. If you want to do anything more than that, you're going to need to work. >> That's right.

>> And they do. They both work. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Quit making excuses.

>> Stop. What you're saying? >> Stop that. >> I don't want to hear how great they are.

>> They're not great. They have no limitations on their spending because their mother is an enabler. Stop it.

Believe it or not, it's not their mother. It's their dad. >> No, it's you.

>> Oh, >> okay. I'm kidding. You're fun. I'm messing with you. Okay. You dare really throw him under the bus there. >> So, what I did was >> I love him dearly, though. >> Yeah. But the two of you, the two of you have to lock arms and say, "We are going to bless our children with a new lesson

that money is finite." >> Okay. >> What we're doing now is not good for them.

Even if it's good for you, even if you can afford it, it's not good for them.

>> And when they run out of money at college, >> they'll go to work. Don't bail them out.

>> No. >> My son, my car is broken.

>> Hey, last year Dave, I got a call from you got a personal problem. >> I got a call from my son. He says, "Hey, Dad, I I got a date." And I was very excited that he had a date. Then he was like, he thought that was going to get the money for the date.

And I said, "You got any money?" He goes, "No, I don't have any money." I said, "Well, >> going to be a cheap date. >> You're not going on a date. >> Yeah. You're going to the library in the park.

>> Frisbee in the park date till you get a job, buddy. >> I don't even think he knows what a Frisbee is. >> Yeah, well, you're cheap. You can get one when you don't have a job.

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Laurel is in Colorado. Hi Laurel, what's up? >> Hi, thank you so much for talking to me.

I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

Well, I am in a transition period and

I'm trying to figure out what to do for employment going forward and I was hoping I could get your take.

>> Okay, tell us about it.

>> All right, so um I'm going to go back a little bit in time. Um in 2019, my

husband was diagnosed with an incurable

cancer. And the doctors, we went to

multiple experts and they all said he had about a year to live.

Wow. >> Thankfully, beyond thankfully, um he he

did great. And at about the three and a half year mark, the doctors were all totally stunned and said, "We cannot believe how healthy you are. You are doing great. We see no evidence of cancer having come back." Um and we left

the office feeling like we won the lottery. >> Yeah. >> Like the lottery of life, not the financial. >> Amen. Wow. >> Yeah. What a roller coaster. >> It was amazing. It was >> Yeah. from a death from a one-year death sentence to three and a half years of healing. >> Yes, sir. >> Wow. >> So, you know, we spent the next couple months thinking about, you know, what do you do when life has handed you

this absolute miracle? And we said, you

know what, he's not officially cured until 5 years, and this is the time to just go do

something that is a dream. you know, we um we were almost debtree at that point.

We had good savings. We had jobs that were semi-portable. Um and so we decided

to just spend some of our savings um not knowing how much longer he had and go live on the road for a couple years. So we we traveled the country, we volunteered in national parks, we helped out in different communities, we worked remotely a little bit. Um it was

absolutely amazing. Um, and by some

additional miracle, my husband got um he

got a wonderful job while we were

traveling um where he makes terrific

money um and he can do it fully remotely. So, we've been actually able to instead of pulling money out of our

savings to go do this dream for a little while, we actually socked away a ton of money while we were traveling.

>> What's a what's a ton?

Um about $500,000.

>> Oh, that's a ton. That's good. Way to go. >> And we wiped and and we wiped out all of our debt. So, no debt >> and we almost doubled our net worth. So, >> do you own a house?

>> Um well, that's actually that's the perfect question because that's where I am right now. We just bought a house. We decided it was time to settle down again. Um he was officially declared

cured of his cancer.

>> Awesome. which I could almost cry just saying it. >> Yeah.

>> Um so we are in this amazing place now and we just bought a house that we love.

Um we paid for it with cash because we've been living well below our means and saving money like the Dickens and we don't have any debt because we made a point of paying off all our debt as fast as possible. Um I love your show by the way.

Um so so here I am with my husband having a he has a great job. He's make still making great money. >> What What does he make now?

>> Um he makes maybe between 250 and 300.

It's sort of >> And he's fully remote. And you have a paid for house and no debt.

>> Correct. >> And how much in your nest egg now?

>> Um besides the house, it's about maybe 1.2

million. >> Okay. So you're sitting on uh you didn't I don't think you said how much the house is. How much was the house?

>> Um about 700.

>> Okay. Okay. She got about $2 million net worth. How old are you guys?

>> Um, he's a little older than I am. I'm 49. He's 60.

>> Okay. Okay. Wow. What a great place. I

love your story. >> Oh, I thank you, Lord. I mean, I >> I can't wait for the question. Yeah. So, what in the world? What kind of question can you have? Yeah. This is crazy.

>> Yeah. I almost feel guilty like writing in because I know folks have more serious problems than this. But, um,

here's my situation. I put my career on hold for the last couple years um because I really wanted to do this thing where like we lived our lives for a

couple years because we didn't know if that's all he had. >> Yeah. >> And now that we know we have we have more time like that that black cloud is gone.

You know, we're in this house that we absolutely love. It's our expenses are very reasonable. You know, we we live very modestly. Save a ton of money. Um,

so I actually have a couple options. I'm by trade I'm a lawyer, but I'm also a teacher. >> Um, and >> what do you want to do?

>> Oh, I mean, okay. So, that's >> you. It's like you listen, can I tell you something? You've been setting this up and in setting it up to Dave and I, it's almost like you're embarrassed. So, stop all that and just >> I am I am a little embarrassed.

>> Don't be Don't be Don't be. You're blessed. So, I know you want to do something. What do you want to do? Just say what's at the top of the list and you can give me number two. Well, give me number one and give me number two. What do you want to do? Say it, Laurel.

>> Okay, so I have I have three ideas.

>> Give me three. One through three. Quick, go. What's number one? >> Okay, so the first one is um a job that doesn't pay a lot, but it helps the community because I love doing community work. >> What is it, Name it?

>> Um maybe doing like substitute teaching or doing some kind of >> Okay, what's number two? >> Number two.

>> Number two would be um you know what, just dive back in. make a ton of money, make our nest egg huge, and just suck it up for a few years and and have a terrific next next. >> So being a lawyer is number two.

>> Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Number three.

>> And then number three would be somewhere in between. So get a job that's like 9 to5. It pays well. It has benefits, but also like I come home and my job, I don't take take my job home with me. >> All right. So which one of those three is most exciting?

>> Number four. Uh >> oh. >> Well, I already know the answer.

None of the above.

Number four. None of the above. >> What do you say? >> I want a job that pays 250,000 a year that's remote using your law degree and you guys can pick up stakes and go spend four months in Europe if you want to.

>> Well, it's my husband who makes that money. No, no, no, no, no. I was talking about you. >> Oh, >> Dave gave you a fourth. >> I don't know why you think that if something has meaning and is helpful to the community that it has to not pay anything.

You totally stomped her. I know where she's at. Uh Laurel, what is the what?

>> You definitely stomped me. >> I know. I know because the thing you want to do with the substitute and all that, there's something there. And I I was going to say both. And uh I don't care which one of it's one, two, three, or four. I'm not disagreeing with Dave either, but you've got to determine what it is you want to do right now. And that

can change six months from now. you're in the rare situation that you actually can do that which is why I'm saying both and but I believe >> I think there's I think there's a clear winner in the clubhouse. If you couldn't do any of them, you could you could only do one. Which one do you choose? Say it.

>> Oh, I would do the one that pays less and gives back to the community. I knew that. Gives me a lot of flexib. Do you know why I knew that? Because I've done this a lot and somebody always gives the one that they want to do the most first.

It's just basic psychology. So, here's the deal. Just go do some of that. Go substitute. Go teach. Go do whatever.

And if six weeks in you go, I scratched that itch and I want to do something else, then do something else because you are in the rare situation to be able to do that. You do not have any reason.

>> Do you think I am? I guess I guess maybe that's part of my question. I feel >> you don't have to work. >> Scared about like do we actually have enough? Are we doing >> You have enough. You don't have to work.

>> You do. Please have enough. You don't have to work. What What I What I And for

that reason, I think you can pick your battles and choose what you do and how you do it. That's right. >> And I think there's a lot of things you could do that were uh without getting in

a uh law firm meat grinder. Uh you don't

have any reason to do that. But there's but with the education level you have, you've got a lot of options that pays better than substitute teaching at the local elementary school.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Anna is

with us in Virginia. Hi Anna, how are you? >> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate your time.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> So, I'm I'm 62. Um, my I've been

divorced for 10 years. Um, I've never been particularly great with money. I've always my ex-husband was better with it, you know, than I was. Um, we were we never saved a ton just and we never got into a lot of debt, but we never made a lot of money. So, we did the best we could. Um, I was working remotely um for

a company for the past 5 years and I was I was making really good I mean good money for for me I would say 70,000

which was more than I'd ever made in my life. Um, but I was let go due to um the

company losing their contract. Um, I just that was in June. I just got another job which I'm very grateful for.

So, um I can hopefully, you know, ride

that out for the next 10 years. Um you know, to retire, I think I could I'm in very good health. I think I'd be able to do that for, you know, until at least in my, you know, early 70s.

>> What are you making? What are you making in this new job? So, the new job, the new job about 45,000, but I also get

because of my ex-husband's very hard work, um I have a pension that I get because he works for the Department of uh defense. So, I get about $1,000 a month that is um only until he passes.

So, he's in great health and all of that, but um so that is contingent upon his, you know, his life.

>> Weird way to get you to pray for your ex-husband. Yeah, >> I know. I love him, though. I pray for him anyway. probably send him a lot of vitamins.

>> Oh, I love it. >> Like, no, don't go on that trip. You something might happen. >> Yeah.

>> All right. So, 45,000 from 70,000.

>> I know. It's It's And and I don't think I probably handled I think I was so

excited about having that money that I probably didn't do as much with it, you know, as I could have. I Anyway, how can we help? >> Here I am. And I just Okay. So, I have

um about a h 100,000 in uh between a

Roth IRA and a 401k.

>> Good. >> I I live I have a house, so I own it. I

mean, I I'm owning I have a mortgage on it. Um I only owe a h 100,000 on it and my payment is about 750 a month. So, I have two about a 2.75%

interest rate. >> Um I don't have any other debt. So what

how can I these last you know what is

what do I do like tell me what to save what to where to put it I've heard about annuities >> no >> I don't know really much no okay I I so I'm very confused about just give me a plan for the next 10 10 years so to get

to get the most out of what I've got left here >> okay I want you to start investing into

your 401k or Roth IAS 15%

of your income. So, $7,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And um do you have a a 401k with a

match at the new place?

>> I do. 5%.

>> Good. Okay. So, put definitely go there.

If it's a Wroth, make it a Roth. If they have Roth available, okay.

>> Okay. >> And uh $7,000 a year. And any other money you can squeeze out of the budget, we want to throw at the house until the house is paid off.

>> Okay. So, don't like I was thinking, do I pull all that money out and pay off my house and then start? No. No. No. Okay.

So, just try >> and I want to make sure that money is invested in good growth stock mutual funds. >> Okay. >> All right. So, here's the thing. In seven years, when you're 69, the 100

will be 200 if you don't touch it.

>> Okay. >> In seven more years, it'll be 400. But

that would be 76 years old.

>> Okay. All right. Um, that's if you don't add anything to it. And we're adding at least $7,000 a month to it. All of this

is invested in good long track record growth stock mutual funds, Roth, everything.

Okay? Roth 401k, Roth IRA, sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. Any other money we can find, we throw at the mortgage. When you're 70, I want you to have a good nest egg based on this 2 to300,000 and a

paid for house.

>> Okay, >> that's what we're aiming at at this point. However, I think you're undermployed, don't you, Ken?

>> I I absolutely do because your situation is not uncommon for changes to be made.

So, what were you doing when you were making 70?

I was um an executive assistant, but I but I think honestly if I'm I was overpaid. >> I don't No, not at all. >> That sounds really weird. >> No, I don't think you were. >> Absolutely not. What What are you doing now?

>> Well, it was so I was executive assistant for a com a medical courier company. So now I'm actually a courier

for a different company. Okay. So, it's a lab company that picked up.

>> So, you took a step down in position >> to get a job. >> Yes. >> I'm glad you got a job. That's step one.

>> Admire that. I think you go back into the executive assistant world. I'm telling you something right now, uh, with your experience. And I will tell you, and what's great about the executive assistant world is your age right now is not in any way a deterrent.

Uh, that that is not going to hurt you.

And you may be surprised. I know for a fact I've got a handful of guys I'm thinking of right now and their executive assistants are making over $100,000 easy.

>> Wow. >> Now, I'm not and they're in their 60s and 70s. >> That's exactly right. Now, I'm not dangling that out.

These these are high net worth. These are these are larger companies, but I'm telling you, um you have got some real experience. I'm gonna throw another uh organization at you. I want you to look up Ble B a Y.

Okay? and they sponsor a lot of Ramsey events. I know their owners, >> okay? They're good people.

I've known them a long, long time. >> They do virtual assistants.

If you're technology savvy with computers and all that, u you should go to their website today, tell them that we sent you and just talk to them, see about that. Uh, but I Dave is right. You are undermployed. I think you ought to be aiming where you are in retirement. I think you ought to be setting your sights high to try to be making 90 to

120 in an executive assistant role.

That's what you ought to be looking for. >> And I would start at 80.

>> Yeah. >> If you had to. That's right. >> But I I think you were underpaid before >> and I know you're underpaid now. So maybe not as a courier, but what you have the potential to make. So there's several elements. We're going to take the nest egg and make it work as hard as we can. We're going to add to it systematically 15% of your income. Right

now, that's about 7,000 a year, but if we double it, it'll double, right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. The third thing is, uh, we're going to work on paying off the house with any extra money we can squeeze out of the budget. And the fourth thing is we're going to get our income up so we make all of these things happen bigger, better, faster.

>> Yes, I will look into that that delay uh today. Yeah. All of that will work.

>> But all other companies locally look for remote positions, you know.

>> Yeah. It doesn't Everybody doesn't have to be in your backyard, but um you're doing it remote before. So, but Ken is

right. Um I mean, we've got, you know, a

bunch of executive assistants inside of Ramsey that make more than that.

>> Yes. >> So, that work here. And so, um not unusual at all. And, um not unusual at

all for them to be in your age bracket either. So, um, all of that is true and

it makes for, you know, the just a fabulous situation for everyone involved.

[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you. But Yrefi was built for this. They'll help you explore a fresh start. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Tim in Pennsylvania. Our daughter is 19 years old and failed her first year of college. She applies for jobs but has a bad attitude that I'm sure shows up in interviews.

My wife and I are both successful in our fields are in baby step six and have 1 million in retirement funds. So, it's not like she hasn't had a good example at home. What little savings she has is dwindling away from eating out and subscribing to useless phone apps. We've recently told her that she will have to start paying $150 rent starting next month.

She says we are being unfair because she doesn't have a job, but we explained if we lose our jobs, the bills still have to be paid and no one gets a pass.

I am sure this isn't a unique problem as this seems like a generational thing, but we want to help her launch into adulthood.

Uh well, a couple things here. You know, my personal parenting style on this is um I'm not going to fund her for anything, zero. Uh until she figures out

how hard life is, uh with a really, really bad attitude. I think that's the first thing. Um I don't mind you uh charging her rent and putting more pressure on her to act like a young adult. So, I don't think you're being too harsh. I feel like you've probably been a little bit too lax uh on this situation. But the more you can not bail her out, the more that you can just let her fail, uh, failure is life's best

teacher and it's going to be hard to stand by as parents and watch it. But I think that's what's necessary here. And there's a lot in this that we don't know. We there's a lot under the surface here. So really hard to fully go at the source of this, but that's my take on on this particular specific question.

Uh, first and foremost, you and your wife have to be in lock step.

No way can you be separated by this

child who is misbehaving.

Okay, the two of us have to be unified in our approach. Secondly, real love

says not what feels good today, but real

love says what helps this child be a successful 30-year-old.

What steps can I give? What can I give her now that she doesn't have to cause her to be a successful 30-year-old? I really don't care what her pain is or

her whining is in between.

And um I really think that one or both

of you have been way soft on this kid for a very long time. And now you're

trying to make up ground and you think $150 is tough. I think $1,500 is tough.

150 is wimpy. >> Yeah. >> Because that's what she's going to have to pay if she tries to leave. Okay. So,

I I'm going to take a little different position than Ken. Um number one, you're lock step. Number two, every move that you make is an act of love that is going to help her become the 30-year-old that she needs to become. And so, her problem

is is that she's never really had any problems.

And so, I'm going to help her have some problems.

I'm going to usher problems into her life. I'm going to start creating all kinds of problems. You're paying for her cell phone. Not anymore. I'm going to

take it up. We're going to sell it. And you're going to if you want a cell phone, you're going to have to go get you one. Uh you're paying for her car gas. Well, not anymore.

If she wants car gas, she's going to have to go get a job. Hey, you're paying for everything. And you're washing her freaking clothes.

And you got to stop it.

This is not a one-year-old. This is a 19-year-old with failure to launch. And

uh no, Tim, this is not a generational thing. This is a parenting thing.

Every generation has had people that acted like this and every generation has had productive people. This is not a generational thing. It's not all 19-year-olds are not this way. We talk to 19 year olds that are millionaires.

So, you know, it's just not true. It's nothing to do with a generation. It's got to do with your kid. And so what I'm going to do is make her life hard.

As hard as I can possibly make it, as quick as I can possibly make it. I want her to become highly uncomfortable

because the way she's living her life deserves it. And if she keeps living her life this way, she's going to be a 30-year-old that's a complete abject failure trying to figure out why this world didn't give her what she was entitled to, which is nothing.

So, I'm going to be really kind and

strong and gentle, and I'm going to

create all kinds of hell for her until

she moves out and gets a job.

I really want her to leave as fast as she can go. I want her to go get a job as fast as she can go. I want her to be so uncomfortable that she goes and gets a job and goes and gets a life and starts buying her own milk and starts buying her own bread and suddenly her character will change. It's going to be the most amazing transformation.

But you are going to be called every name in the book because you've made it soft for so long and now you're changing the program. And changing the program is going to feel very unfair. Baby doll, I am sorry. I owe you an apology.

And we love you too much to allow you to be useless. And I just love you so much.

And so I'm going to help you have some problems because I want you to be a unbelievable success when you're 30. And so I'm we're going to create problems for you. And you're not going to like me for a while, but you need to know I love you. And you need to know I'll always make you a plate of food, but you you're I'm going to create some problems for you.

See, the eagle when it builds a nest, it

builds a nest out of thorns.

Long 6inch thorn bush thorns.

And then it fills the nest with down

from anything soft, anything it can find to where when the baby eagle is born, it is born in complete comfort. As the baby

eagle grows in stature and begins to

stretch out its little wings, the mama eagle removes the down every day a little bit more from the nest. And every day those thorns get more and more pronounced until it's almost impossible

to sit in the nest. And the little baby eagle has to get up on the edge of the nest because you can no longer sit in a thorn bush in the bottom of the nest.

And then when the baby eagle's up on the side of the nest, you know what it'll do? It'll start flapping its wings

and it will fall.

And then the wings will start working and it will glide. And you know, the mother eagle holds her breath, wondering if this is the first eagle that can't fly. But it turns out it's not. Turns out this eagle can fly. But it never would have left the nest if it was comfortable.

And an eagle that doesn't leave the nest eventually is known as a turkey.

And so little turkey needs to leave the nest. It's going to be good for little turkey. Gobble gobble.

>> You know, >> I'm I'm so mean and nasty these days.

>> No, you're not. I was following you. And I thought, well, if the eagle becomes a turkey, then the turkey ends up on the Thanksgiving table. >> Whoa. Whoa. You get baked.

>> People eat it. >> Yeah, that's it. >> The world will eat you alive. I was I was tracking that way. I was trying to get eat alive. Trying to get >> Yeah, I was, >> you know, we don't serve eagle.

>> That's what I'm getting. >> Eagle's not eagle's not on. >> You don't see eagles on the Thanksgiving table. >> Huh. That's very interesting. I know.

That's a good point. I had thought about that. >> I was cracking with you. I was really paying attention. My redneck buddies, they don't go eagle hunting. They go turkey hunting, though. >> No, no, that's right. We admire eagles.

We eat turkeys.

>> There's a bumper sticker.

>> Oh, >> no. I think it's a great point. I And and I, by the way, that was a very good description, but I I am all for failure.

Let the kid fail. Yeah. You can't keep bailing them out because again at some point >> whatever was going on when she failed college was going on when she was in high school and was going on when she was in the sixth grade. That's right.

This isn't a first time this has come up. Her little attitude >> is going to get adjusted out there.

>> Right. Well, I don't think she's ever had to finish dealing with failure. She She >> She's never had to finish the results of her attitude sucking. >> That's it. That's right. cuz that that 100% of the time a bad attitude will cause you to have a bad life. Period.

And that didn't start at college and that didn't start when she was living in the basement rentree. And $150 doesn't fix that either. >> That's true. That's not stiff enough.

[Music]

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

Jake is in Texas. Hi Jake. How are you?

>> I'm better than I deserve. Dave, >> good. How can we help?

So, me and the wife are about six weeks

from uh selling one of our businesses,

and we're going to end up with about 1.1

million in our pocket when we're done.

Plus, we get to uh keep the real estate.

So, we've got um we've got a little bit of a mortgage left and we've got some debt on another business. Um, we're just kind of not sure to take this money and go to the market or to to go ahead and get 100% debtree across the board and then then go to the market. We're just not uh not sure.

>> Well, you knew what I would say, didn't you?

>> Well, I I knew what I wanted to hear. I just sometimes you just need to hear it.

I mean, if you answer the call better than I deserve, you already know what I'm going to say, dude. So, now have the

1 million. Have you paid 1.1?

Congratulations, by the way. It's wonderful to grow a business and have a liquidity moment like that. That's incredible. Very well done. You're a millionaire. That's just so cool. So proud of you. Have you paid your taxes out of the 1.1 yet?

>> That's that is our net. So, I've already calculated all of the >> Okay. You're going to have that clear of taxation, >> correct? >> Good. Okay. And how much do you owe on the business and owe on your home?

>> Uh, the business that we're selling is debtree. We have >> No, no, no, no. The one you wanted to pay off.

>> Um, so we have three auto loans that are about 100,000 combined. And then we have some uh equipment loans, two pieces of equipment that are about 100,000 combined. >> And how much do you owe on your home?

We owe $155,000 on our home. >> Okay. So $355,000 makes you 100%

debtree.

>> That's correct. >> The real estate from the deal you sold is already debtree.

>> Correct. We uh we'll uh get about 3500

triple net lease on that property in the future. You don't have a payment in the

whole world if you write $355,000 worth

of checks.

>> That's it. >> Okay. It's a no-brainer, man.

>> I'm debtree.

>> And uh you know that that's that's going to leave you 700,000 bucks, you know, to do some investing with. Oh, darn.

>> Yep. Well, thank you for uh helping us get here, Dave. It's uh you've truly been a a blessing to me and my wife and

I thought we would be >> What kind of what kind of business was it that you saw?

>> It was a oil and gas manufacturing company that we started it less than 12 months ago. >> Whoa. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Well, the American dream is dead, they tell us. >> Yeah. The system is rigged. Little man can't get ahead. And you did, didn't you? >> 12 months, man.

>> Dad gum. That's incredible. Very well done. And by the way, a manufacturing company. You don't see any fancy glitzy

brochures and commercials for that.

>> Didn't hear the word digital. >> No, >> didn't hear it. Heard heard a building left behind on triple net. Yeah, man.

Way to go, Jake. >> Dude, that's incredible. >> Explain that to me real quick. I mean, the the triple net. >> Triple net is like um typically done with warehouses or a situation like he's

doing, one of the two. And triple net means that the landlord pays for nothing. So, if I'm the tenant and I have triple net, I pay my utilities, I pay the insurance on the building and I pay the property taxes on the building and I pay anything associated with the building. So, when I write a check to the landlord, it is net net.

>> Wow. >> All of it. 100% of that 3,500 bucks is there there's um his operating income after expenses is the same as his gross revenue. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, it's like clipping coupons. It's a very nice, sweet little commercial real estate deal. I love a triple net lease. Uh landlord's got almost no responsibilities. If there's something breaks on the building, oh, repairs, maintenance, you have to fix it. >> Roof leaks, you got to fix it. >> Dumb question here because I'm just now learning about this.

Do what makes that possible in a situation like that? What are the factors that would allow someone to get that kind of a deal?

>> Well, typically, uh it is a single-use building, right? Okay. um or at least

the area that the it's encapsulated because you couldn't pay you couldn't do repairs like on the other end of the building for the other tenant if you're the tenant right so so typically a single-use building again a lot of times it's a very simple building like a warehouse something like that I don't know of any retail that does triple net I don't know of any very few offices do triple net that kind of thing most of those have common area maintenance cam in them those kinds of things other ways of of covering the expenses >> uh but the Um, but that standalone singleuse building.

>> If I built a Walgreens and Walgreens was the tenant. Walgreens is probably those are probably triple net leases. I don't know if they are, but they probably are.

I do know Walgreens doesn't own their buildings that they they have local investors build them and then they um they they pay the rent and um and I think they pay all the expenses.

>> So, this is a sweet deal. He sells the the company that the building is in but keeps the building. He still owns the real estate but have but and has a low

maintenance or or no low hassle

>> check coming in very low hassle.

>> Does that tell us that they were so thrilled to get the actual business that they were willing to play ball >> pro probably but it probably is a singleuse manufacturing warehouse type building. >> Probably a typical way to structure that also. >> But uh I I don't think he I mean I think but yeah they wanted to stay in the building. They had an ongoing concern and yes >> good place to keep going.

Yeah, absolutely. >> Good, good, good. >> Robert's in Florida. Hey, Robert.

How are you? >> I'm better than I deserve. How y'all doing? >> Same, sir.

>> Well, um me and my wife, we are we are in a a good situation. Um very blessed.

Um we have some some our two children are are late in high school, about to retire, so we're about to be or about to graduate. Sorry. So, we're about to be empty nesters. And >> we're looking to buy a second home.

>> We live in Florida. Um, love vacationing up in in in Colorado in the mountains when it's nice and cool and in the summer when it's hotter than heck in and in in Florida and we are at a position where we were able to pay cash for that house. >> Awesomeness. >> The thing is I've done many of the steps. I like to think that we are well into number seven, but I still have six.

>> Then you're not in seven.

the current the current home that I have. I'm struggling. We do have a mortgage. >> How much do you owe on your current mortgage?

>> Uh 954,950.

>> Okay. And how much cash do you have available to do the mortgage payoff and

buy the Colorado house?

>> Uh we currently have about 6.65 million

>> available.

>> Available. Correct. And we're going to use about 3.5 for the cash on the Colorado house. The issue is or what I'm

struggling with. >> What's the house in Florida worth?

>> Uh about 4.3.

>> Okay. What's your total net worth?

>> Uh just over 15 million. And that would

not include the value of my business if I were to sell my business. That's just in real estate. Uh cash stocks. Way to

go, >> personal assets. >> Okay. Well, I you know, you know the story. I pay cash for everything >> and I've and in 30 in 34 years of doing this show, I've never talked anybody into paying off their house that they called me back mad.

>> Well, that's the struggle is is I I guess I didn't get to to that in 2020.

Rates were low. I refinance I refinanced to a 15 year 2.25.

>> Yeah. >> So, knowing that my $10,000 a month is only at 2.25 25 on on that particular mortgage. I make well.

>> Hey, Robert, you didn't get rich borrowing on your house. You got rich being smart.

>> That's the struggle. I see the >> No, you didn't get rich leveraging your house. >> The 2.25.

>> You didn't get rich leveraging your house. It's not where your wealth came from. Your wealth came from being smart.

>> Yeah. And so you're mystifying yourself with a little bit of mathematics and you're leaving out risk. So if I were you, I

would write a check today and I would be debtree and I would buy a house in Colorado for cash and I would be debtree and I'd be sitting in my two wonderful properties enjoying life with $15 million net worth and not a payment in the world and not trying to noodle around how I'm making 52 cents on the

spread on this mortgage. It's just you're you're burning a lot of calories here over nothing. Truthfully, I'd pay that thing off so fast it'd be unbelievable. And if you hate it and I'm wrong, you can go get you another mortgage. [Music]

[Music]

[Music] our Our scripture of the day, Psalm 119:89 and 90. Your word, Lord, is

eternal. It stands firm in the heavens.

Your faithfulness continues through all generations. You establish the earth, and it endures.

Thomas Jefferson said, "In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock." Oo,

>> that's my all-time favorite Jefferson quote, actually. >> Very, very good. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and afford groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance.

But how do you choose? Well, term life insurance is the best way to do this. It's the least expensive, and you avoid getting ripped off with bad investment plans inside of whole life or permanent life. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially.

So, if you're like most people, you need a policy that's 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years. And it should be a level policy, means the premium stays the same. If you want to learn more about this, use our free term life insurance guide.

or click the link in the description and we'll help you out. Sam's in Pittsburgh.

Hey Sam, how are you?

>> Doing well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, my husband and I are trying to make

a decision regarding my career where I

would be transitioning from um, a public

school position to a private school position that is very appealing in every

way except financially. My income would be reduced by onethird

if we made this decision. And we are currently on baby step two.

Is this you're a teacher?

>> I am transitioning from a service

provider to a school counseling position. >> Is the reason for the move just desire to be in a better environment or is it really really bad where you are?

It is currently the desire to be in

another environment with what seems to be writing on the wall where it's going to get really bad in what my current

role is. >> How long before how long before it gets really bad?

>> Weeks, months at most, but definitely this school year I see being very tumultuous with some of the administrative decisions that have been made.

Uh, is it is it real wear and tear schedulewise or is it just something you disagree with? I'm I'm going somewhere with this why I'm digging.

>> What what what is the decision? What are those decisions going to cause for you specifically?

I am worried about ramifications to my

professional reputation based on decisions that are out of my hands because my it is my role to provide the

service but I didn't get to decide be a

part of these decisions and the way it was changed but I'm the face of the service to the families >> and I do have that concern especially as someone who you know I I have at least 20 years until retirement I have a long road to go and my reputation matters and it affects my job and my liability.

>> Now, what do you do? You're a CA school counselor. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes. Well, my current role is very closely related to school counseling, but I'm finishing my school counseling certification right now with the hopes

of transitioning into school counseling anyway. And this position has opened up that does not require me to be finished with my certification. >> What do you make? But I I'll be able to finish it.

>> What do you make?

>> I currently make 74,000.

>> And you'd make like 50.

>> I would make 50. >> When is Also, I'll be making increased

salary on the teacher steps because I do have a teacher contract and eventually the classes I take will also bump me up some of my salary.

>> All right. So, when do you anticipate you're going to be done with baby step two if you were to stay where you are?

>> That is a fantastic question. We have tried to plot it out where by May, which

is also towards the end of the school year and when I would be finishing my certification.

>> Oh, so it doesn't affect baby step two.

>> I'm sorry. You mean Oh, you make it by the end of May if you do the job. You make it by the end of May. I'm sorry. If she stays where she is, they get it done in May. If you don't stay where you are, when do you get it done?

>> That's our question.

>> I'm sorry. I'm I hate to keep interrupting you. I apologize, but the I'm having these thoughts. So, are you planning to stay to the end of the school year regardless?

>> This position, I would be transitioning

in October. >> Oh, immediately. Okay.

Okay. So instead of May, it's going to be September or October of next year before you're debtree.

>> Mhm. >> All right. And then another quick followup. Another quick followup on what you told us.

>> If you take this cut and go to a private school, how long or if ever can will it take for you to get back to the 70 that you're making now?

>> I don't know if it would ever happen because it's based on, you know,

fundraising initiatives and things like that. how they can increase salaries.

>> I just don't I haven't heard enough. I just haven't heard enough. And I maybe not understanding how it affects your reputation, but I would hate for you to take this job right now. Private schools are always going to be there. Those positions are going to be there. A third pay cut while you're in the middle, baby step two. I've advised people before to do it if it had some extreme situations to it. I don't see it, Dave. Do you feel something different?

I'd almost stick it out is my point. and and and get done with the school year and knock out baby step two >> and then look at but if it's gonna harm your reputation >> I mean it sounds like there's an ethics breach is what >> that's what I can't figure it out >> yeah but the uh um like what they're asking her to do is against her moral code >> is that what's is that what we're hearing >> yes I see some some writing on the wall

where there's going to be rather large ramifications and I actually worry about the long-term position security.

>> Okay. >> All right. Well, then I then I always want you to do what's right. Um, let me just say that. Uh, I didn't quite pick up on that. It's that serious. If that's serious, I don't I don't want to stay where there's an ethics problem or I'm or I'm asked to be engaged in something I ethically can't do. I can't I can't stay. >> Um, but I also don't want to

>> create that in my mind if the other is

just more comfortable.

Mhm. >> And I I I don't think I'm hearing that, but I'll just warn you against that.

Okay. >> Um it's like I really want to go over there because it's my people and I'm more comfortable there and so I'm going to blow the drama up over here in my head. I I have the ability to do that.

So I have to guard against that. Sam, I'm not saying you're doing that. I'm just saying I can do that. So guard against that. Um >> thank you. >> Then if you're going to take it, the other thing, yes, I'm going to take it.

But uh I'm also going to look for ways to supplement my income utilizing my career field. >> Yeah. >> Is there independent tutoring or independent uh counseling you can do uh with your

certification that's legal or independent help you can provide a student that parents can pay for on the side akin to a teacher doing tutoring?

Uh those kinds of things there probably is. >> Yeah. and I'm going to look for some kind of side hustle that's in the field

that supplements and almost gets me back up there. Um, and it's probably going to mean some extra hours, but that's the trade-off for getting away from the slime and getting into a good area.

>> I agree. That's the strategic question, Sam. How do I replace the one-third that

I'm giving up? That's the goal. That's

the goal. >> Yeah. And so, you know, it it's just

blows my mind that people can get paid $40 or $50 an hour for math tutoring.

Now, that's not your field, okay? Uh but there they are. Are reading help, helping people with remedial reading, uh as side tutoring, the the the money that can be made doing that. Um, I even know one guy who's coaching uh high school and middle schoolers independently in his backyard with basketball skills.

He played D1 basketball and his side hustle is doing that and he's he's, >> you know, a personal trainer for upand cominging basketballers and he's making 50 bucks an hour doing it. It's, you know, so that that's the kind of thing I'm always looking for in this situation. Good question.

works well for you. That puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 11. Are You Ready To Live Differently To Win? | February 25, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me today, uh, George Camel. You ready to get started, George? >> I'm pumped. Let's do this.

>> Let's get into it. We've got Brandon who's here locally in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey Brandon, how can we help today? >> Hi, good afternoon.

I appreciate you taking my call. >> Most definitely.

um about 13 years ago and she's fallen on very hard times because of some very bad decisions. And um after trying to

move her out, we've identified maybe about $20,000 of damage as a very rough

estimate that needs to be taken care of.

And I'm trying to decide where I should take these funds from.

>> Okay. Um I'm assuming she has no money if she's fallen on hard times.

>> Yeah, that's correct. She act she actually owes more money than she has.

So very hard times.

>> How long has this been going on?

um the past two years. Um she quit her job. Um she's been living on off her

retirement for the past two years and she's exhausted all of those uh funds

and has >> When's the last time she paid rent?

>> Um so this was the last month. Um I talked to her because it was the first month she paid in cash and I thought that was very suspicious. So, I confronted her on it and she told me she only has enough for one more month of rent. So, we've been spending the past few weeks trying to get her moved out so we can get repairs done.

>> Where is she going?

>> Um, that's still up in the air either with myself or my younger brother, which isn't I don't believe either of those options are the best option, but those are the only options we have >> currently. Is she um is she Well, how

old is she? She is 63.

>> Oh, so

why isn't she working?

>> Um, you know, there's not a good answer for that. And the answers she's given me,

you know, are just not very valid. So, I can't I can't give you a good excuse.

It's either health problems or stress problems or mental problems. You know, it's all of those combined. But it doesn't, you know, it doesn't legitimize >> sure >> her decision-m. >> So there's 20,000 of of damages and

you're the question was where do I take the money from? What are your options?

>> So I currently have about 19,600 liquid

um stretched across my banking accounts.

Um, I also have a paid off truck that I

use as my daily driver. And I have a

Mustang that I currently owe 9,000 on

um, as kind of something I'm a little more sentimentally attached to than the truck. But the truck is my daily driver.

>> What do you what the truck uh, what's it worth? >> Um, it's probably worth 30 to 35,000.

>> Oh, wow. So, question long term. So,

your mom, let's say your mom moves out, you cover the 20,000 in damages. What happens next? You bring another renter in who has the propensity to do the same thing, and now, you know, again, you're on the hook for however much the damages are. Like, what's the long-term play here to not be in this situation again, >> right? Me and my wife are still kind of debating that question. um whether it's worth keeping and renting out a little more legitimate uh with a a a very detailed lease agreement or selling the

property, which I would prefer not to do, but that option is there, too, just

to make all these problems go away.

>> So, here's what I'm thinking. Let's let's let's talk about the 20,000 first, and then let's talk about George and I can give you some ideas for the long-term play on this based on your finances. Yeah. I I I don't think your mom has the money. I think continuing to hound her about this is just going to be like you bashing your head against the wall. Fair enough. >> Right. >> So, yeah. >> No, I've got the bruises to prove it.

>> You don't have a landlord insurance policy? >> No. No. This was strictly just because I was trying to help my mom out >> and she wasn't a legal tenant then.

There was no deposit, nothing signed.

Okay. So, this is it's on you.

>> And I think that stinks to realize and we also need to take our part in owning that we made a whole lot of mistakes on our own that got us here. Number one was letting mom live there. Kind of knowing that she wasn't in a good financial spot and probably this day would come where she didn't take care of the place. She can't afford to rent and we have to evict our own mother.

>> Right. Everything you said is accurate.

I even let her know if she did move in with us that I don't I don't want to have her pay any rent. All I care about is her getting back on her feet. So, I'm I'm fully uh acknowledged that this is in my hands and I'm going to have to be the one to solve this problem. So, >> and she'll likely be your burden financially as well for the foreseeable future.

>> That's right. As well, that's one of my concerns.

>> Yeah. So, yeah, if I'm you, I am going to scrge together this this money and I'm going to try to get this stuff done for the cheapest price possible. It's possible that you can do it uh for 20 for less than 20,000. Maybe you put your own sweat equity in it.

I don't know the nature of the repairs. But let's talk about further down the line. uh the way you mentioned the 20,000, you know, scraping together from here and there. I want to know about your financial snapshot and if it makes sense to even keep this rental house.

So, tell us about you.

allows me enough to support two mortgages. It's not going to hit me financially at all. Just the big hit is going to be this complete liquidation of all my savings because I only have 19,600 liquid. So, it's going to put me back to square one. Uh, which I'm trying to avoid. >> How much are you making a month?

>> Um, 8700.

>> And then what are your total expenses including everything, insurance, food, bills, all the mortgages? What's your outcome? >> I pay 3,000. Um, my total income for the

month, yeah, 8,000. My total expenses is 3,000 after bills. Not counting groceries, just the bills. >> So, counting everything though, are you spending about five grand a month, you'd say?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you might have 3,000 left over each month. >> Yes.

>> So, that's smart. >> So, we can cash flow this over the next month, two months, three months to where you're not fully liquidating it all at once. Maybe we spend 10 grand now and then another five grand next month, five grand the following month, and then we're done.

>> Okay. >> Now, what's the tell tell me about your current residence. What do you owe on that? >> Um, we bought this property in 2021 for

300. I think we owe 280 still left on it. >> Uh-huh. And what's it worth? >> 260. 261, I'm sorry.

>> Okay. >> Um, what's it worth? Probably um low 400s maybe. And what about the

rental? What do you owe on it and what's it worth? >> The rental we owe 88,000. It's probably worth 240.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, after selling it and everything, I'd probably pocket one 140.

>> What would you do with that 140? If you had that sitting around an account, >> I would like to invest it into um you

know, the S&P and the Dow or whatever would be best um and just leave it there. >> I love that. Well, think about that plan versus being a landlord. It sounds like you don't love dealing with the physical issues, a tenant, the upkeep and maintenance.

So, if you could get a return by that money just being invested and it might be even more than you would have gotten if you had a tenant. >> I agree with that. >> Right.

>> I do. I have a small investment with the Roth and the or not the Roth, I'm sorry, the S&P and the Dow. Okay.

>> Um not very anything substantial worth talking about. It's 6600, but I do have the TSP from my time in the military.

>> Then I mean I I got to say based on how this is hitting you as an inconvenience, I could see down the road this rental continuing to be an inconvenience. Um I like the idea of you selling it and taking that money and investing it for your future or however you think it would be best spent. Especially with mom potentially moving in, you're going to have your hands full.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Cordell who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hey Cordell, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are you >> doing? Good. What's up?

Um, I have so um I'm in a little bit of

a pickle. I have a um I bought a car in

2023 and um the car no longer runs. Um it

needs a new engine and it's been like that for a while. It's been just sitting outside. Uh I quoted the dealership.

They said $8,500 um to get like a new engine. Um, but I

don't want to put any money into the car at all. And I'm stuck with I think I owe just around like seven grand. I think I just checked it's like 7100 on the car.

>> Oh wow. >> And what's it worth in its current state?

>> Nothing.

>> Yeah. I called the dealership and they said 200. But

>> the car is worth 200. Like that's what they would give you for it.

>> That's what they would trade in. Yeah.

>> Did you buy this car from that dealership?

>> I did. >> Okay. It feels like you keep going back to an abusive ex. Like, of course, they're going to screw you on every turn. And so, I would not go to the dealership to get this thing fixed. I would go to an independent mechanic and maybe two to get some quotes on what it's going to take to get this thing up and running. >> How much money do you have?

>> Um, I don't have anything liquid. A lot

liquid. Um, about a,000. That's about

it. Um, >> what are you driving now?

>> Um, I have my mom's car. She gifted me.

So, everything's in my name, title, and everything. She gifted me her car. It's paid for >> and it runs it runs good.

>> Is it's paid for her car that she gave you? >> Yeah, it's it's paid off. Yeah. There's no payment or anything. >> So, this is great news cuz it means you don't have to go buy a new car and whatever we can get for this thing is what we get for it. Now, we need to pay off the loan. That's the problem. So, we need to come up with a difference or scrape up the cash to get this thing fixed and then sell it. >> You said you only had $1,000 liquid.

What do you have non-liquid and what's it in what's the nature of it?

>> Um, and like my 401k about it.

>> Okay. Just making sure you didn't have stocks or like some coins sitting around. Okay. Uh, yeah, I'm with George.

We started doing that but um we're not at the point yet where it's like at you know we can take out the money for liquid you know what I mean?

>> Understood. >> Started. >> So tell us about your work. Are you working?

>> I am working. Yes.

>> Okay. What are you bringing in?

>> Um about 50 55,000 a year.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And is you have a spouse at home?

>> Yes. Yes. I'm married. >> Are they working outside the home as well? >> Yes. Mhm. >> Okay. Okay. What do they make?

>> Um, around the same.

>> Great. >> $100,000 income. Great. >> We make six figures. So, this is a solvable problem. Within the next month or two, we could probably scrape up enough to cover this if we live on nothing.

So, can you keep up with the payment for now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what I've been I've been trying to do. I mean, >> what's the payment? >> The the car pay. It's like 322 a month.

>> Okay. So, you should be able to easily handle that. >> On our screen, it says, "Should I do a voluntary repo?" Is that what you were thinking about doing?

>> So, the I called the dealership back and they I asked them, "What should I do?" And they said, "Your best bet is to do a voluntary repo with a credit." >> Oh my goodness. >> And I said >> I said I just got my credit just went up 50 points last week and like we've been really trying to do that and I don't want to do that. >> I'm so glad you didn't listen to them.

That is called set set you up for failure. So, I'm so glad that you called us instead. Um, yeah, you you're bringing home over 6,000 bucks a month.

You're handling the payment, but we want you to get out of this cuz obviously it's not running and we don't want you in any debt anyway. So, I don't know if you have other debt to speak of that's sucking up more of your income, but I would put this kind of as a top priority. Um, my guess is if you listed your debts model, this is probably towards the the bottom of the heap.

>> Um, yes. Yeah, this is actually the last. This is my biggest bill.

>> Oh, this is your biggest bill. Okay, great. >> So, you could knock all your debts out pretty quickly making 100 grand if you guys It sounds like you have not been on a budget. It's kind of just been spending willy-nilly, not really paying attention.

>> Yeah. >> Okay, >> that's 100% accurate.

>> Now, are you and your wife ready to for some life change? Cuz we're about to be living differently for a little while.

>> Yeah. Um I've been trying to do that.

>> There was a lot of breath in that. Cornell, I don't know about that.

>> Yeah, I would I would have a real vision casting convo tonight.

>> Where you say, "Hey, listen. The way I've been leading us in money, this is not an attack on her. It's start with I statements. The way I've been leading us when it comes to money has not been great. And I own up to that. And it's left us in a real pickle where we have this huge repair that we can't afford and we got all these payments around us.

I'm ready to live differently. are you on board to help us get out of this and stay out?

>> See how that's that's not an alarming attacking conversation.

And then it becomes the byproduct is hey, let's get on a budget and just see what our income's going to be this month. See what our expenses are and see where we can do better to cut anything that isn't necessary for the next few months. >> Yeah. And and that's what this is going to look like.

But it's going to start with the two of you and we'll make sure that you're set up to one. We'll give you every dollar. It's the best budgeting out uh budgeting app out there. But it's more than that.

It's really going to help you stick to the plan.

And Every Dollar is going to do the same thing for you as well. So, Kelly will pick up and get that to you. But the key is you guys have got to get on this. You guys have got to work it together. It's totally um up to you to do this. So,

George, let's talk real quick about repo. Um, because I feel like, first off, I feel like we're getting more and more calls about that. I don't know if that's just a reflection of the high cost of living right now and people are falling behind on payments that they got when auto prices were super duper high.

I'm not really sure what the correlation is there. I could speculate on that a little bit, but uh repossession guys is

never is never the answer.

>> When you hear the word repossessed, what do you think of Jade? >> It sounds like a demon. It's a possession. Tie them together when you hear that word.

And so here's the problem. Whether it's involuntary or voluntary, involuntary is they show up at your driveway. >> That bad boy. Yeah.

But don't do voluntary. A lot of people think there's a difference between the two. Well, I'm just it's on me. I'm voluntarily giving it up.

No, it's still you're still going to have to go through the same negative process. >> Yeah. It will destroy your credit. It leaves you liable for the difference after auction.

They go sell it for like pennies on the dollar to get what they can. Then they come after you for the difference. And so you're in no better of a spot than if you just continued keeping up with the payments and tried to sell it yourself.

That is the goal to sell it on your own to get way more so that you're at least less underwater. >> That's right. And if there's here's the thing. If you are underwater, maybe you have a vehicle that, like I said, you paid too much for, you're underwater on it. Guys, what we would suggest here always some less debt is better than high debt, right? So, let's pretend you had a vehicle that you spent $30,000 on and now it's only worth, I don't know, 15, half the amount. You're upside down.

We're always going to tell you, go down to the credit union, see if you can get a loan for the difference. See if you can get that. I don't care. You could put it on a credit card for all I care.

I just want that number down. I want you to be paying $15,000 of debt instead of

$30,000 of debt is my point. And then from there on, now we can actually work out of this. Now, you have a lower monthly payment. So again, that's going to come and and work for you on the debt snowball. You have more money to throw out your debts, smallest to largest.

That's why we suggest that. But please, please, please never go down to the dealership and ask them what they think

because they don't have your best interest in at heart. >> Yeah. It's like making a deal with the devil, then going back to the devil for financial advice. >> Yeah. And thinking he's on your side.

>> Exactly. And so this is not a knock on every dealership in the country, but generally the dealership is the most expensive place to buy a car and get any repairs done. >> Well, they're not your financial adviser. And at this point, we're talking about a financial decision.

And that's really where the conversation changes. They want to sell you a vehicle. They're in the vehicle business. >> But you go back to the the devil, you know.

>> Yeah. >> A lot of devil references here. A lot of demons. I apologize to the kids watching out there.

>> Yeah. What's wrong, George? >> I'm so angry. These people are getting hosed.

I talked with a guy in the street last week.

>> Lordy. Lordy. Because their credit shot.

And what do they do? They say, "Well, hey, we can work with you. What kind of payment you looking for?" >> If they say those words, "Run, you are

about to fall for a borderline scam." >> Yeah. >> And they'll extend the loan. Hey, 72 months, 96 months, whatever you want. We can make it happen. >> Guys, let me tell you, a cash car, that's where it's at. >> Can't be underwater on that. >> You can't be underwater. And I would rather drive a cash car that's 10 years old than have a payment that's going to keep me broke for the foreseeable future. I'm just saying

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So, one of the best things that you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big changes in your life in the past year. So, go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. You need this. All right, let's go to George who's in Boisee, Idaho. Hey, George. How you doing?

>> Doing well, thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. How can we help today?

So, I was uh I just started talking to

uh my lender. We my my wife and I bought our first home a little over a year ago and he was reaching out because interest rates have you know kind of gone down and we talked about possible refinance in the future and uh he did a soft

credit pool and was kind of running me through options and um I come to realize

that my wife is in about $24,000 of

credit card debt that I was naively unaware about. M >> I knew she had some debt, but I didn't know it was that bad. Where there's four cards, three of them that are about like 99% um maxed almost maxed out.

>> Wow. >> Well, you say naively. Why didn't she tell you?

>> Um I I'm not 100% sure.

>> How long have you guys been married?

>> It's uh it'll be 15 years. This April.

And how long has this debt been laying around?

>> Uh, some of it, you know, five years or

so. And I just was not aware that it was that bad. I don't think it was that bad.

But, um, I think it's just one of these things where she just uses the card um, and doesn't really think of the repercussions. Um, again, I'm not 100% sure, but I've been trying to >> This is beyond like I'm casually using a card. If you've maxed out three credit cards without telling your spouse, this is straight up financial infidelity.

There's no other way to say it. >> Do you combine your money or are you guys doing the separate deal?

>> We've been doing separate. This is obviously what I've I thought would work best. Then we just, you know, I I I'm the majority income. Brad Winner and I

cover mortgage. I cover car. I cover most of the bills. I let her do you know handle >> Yeah. um insurance or you know >> well I mean you got you kind of have set yourself up because unfortunately what happens in an environment where you don't have full transparency uh which is

we don't have things combined therefore you have your world I have my world like you said maybe you do the insurance I do the mortgage right it does set up this idea that I can kind of do my own thing over here and as long in her mind it's probably like as long as it doesn't affect you we're we're square and then that sets you up to have the same thing.

So that's the danger. George, both of the Georgees I'm talking to right now, that's the >> when you silo your money. >> Yeah, when you silo your money. Have you confronted her about what was where all this money was spent and why she did this without telling you? >> Um I I just we recently did it and you

know and it was like I said so we had you know I guess she put my daughter's braces on one of them. She had some health issues a number of years ago where she had to get some stuff and she put or you know for to pay the medical expenses and she was using one of those to do that. >> So she's not buying Louis bags, you know, she's not out here. >> No, no, no, no.

>> Okay, that's Well, that's good. That's the good the upside. >> More noble purchases, I guess.

>> I started going through them yesterday and then she even did some cash advances. something like that's the last thing you ever want to do on credit cards cuz >> you know one of them one of her monthly payments is like $242 and >> have you guys >> have you guys had the conversation that we don't we don't engage in debt.

Well, it's something where she knows that I've been working on because I had terrible credit. You know, maybe six, seven years ago in the low 500s, I couldn't even get a $500 credit card from my bank. And now over the last years or a few years, I've learned how

to play the credit game, learn how to what to do with it, not to buy things just because, you know, if I don't have the cash, I had to kind of learn the hard way. But at that same bank that wouldn't give me a $500 credit card, now I have a $46,000 credit card then and I

don't I maybe owe $1,000 on it.

>> Here's the problem. >> For some part, >> here's the problem. Here's where the confusion is. Here's where the confusion is.

>> Um there's a lot of confusion in this and I hear what you're saying and it now is crystal clear to me. So there's there's two or three issues here. Number one, what like what we already said, the money is siloed. So because of that there is just going to be a level of secrecy.

>> So that's thing one and you both have created that environment.

your relationship. It sounds like it's if it's if it's this kind of debt it's okay but >> it helps her credit score then maybe.

>> Uhhuh. And so I think that's created that's the second problem is there's just not a clear stance on what does that mean? And then the third thing is, yeah, there is a lack of communication.

There is something there that she didn't feel like she could tell you.

>> Um, even something like braces, hey, I have to use this money for our our children's braces. So, there's a communication there or some sort of like lack of trust that I don't feel like I can come to you with this or I don't feel like I can share this. So these are three main issues and I hearing the call

George what I would suggest is >> um if you can take a level of ownership in this too and then you can come to her and say you know what we've gotten off on the wrong track like both of us and I see my part in this and I I want to

change what I'm doing today and I like I hope that you're here with me because we can't keep going like this. I want you to know that I trust you. I want our finances to be together. And what I'm what I'm finding right now is I was focused on debt and I kind of was a hypocrite because I was saying my debt was okay, but yours wasn't.

And I think honestly going forward, we just need to say that debt has not been good for our relationship. And going forward, I don't want to engage on it. I don't know about you, but this is what I want to talk to you about.

>> Yeah. No, I I love that. And that's in that's some the conversation I had last night when I said I was like regardless I was like your debt is my debt.

>> Um I have like $4,000 in debt. But I

told her and I'm thinking oh we just finally got a tax return for the first time in like two years cuz I'm making more money than I've made in the past.

So having to adjust for things like that we I had owed the last two years but you know having extra money taken out and being on top of the finances where we got like you know $4,500 like okay cool

maybe we can use this to pay down our credit card debt thinking ours was roughly around the same not realizing hers was as much as it was.

>> Yeah. So what's your total consumer debt now? >> Yeah. Um it's uh about 30,000 between

the both of us. >> Okay. How much do you have in across checking and savings liquid?

>> Um like left over or just currently right now? >> Currently, >> um I have about $2,300 right now in my in my debit. That's after mortgage and bills are paid. >> Okay. I would likely pause on this refinance cuz it's going to cost you 2 to 5% of the loan and I don't know that you're going to break even anytime soon.

So this might be a down the line thing.

Right now, the focus is just attacking this debt with the debt snowball. That's the easy advice. Just tackle it as if it was y'all's debt and smallest credit card goes first, minimum payments on the rest. The hard part is going to be resetting your marriage and financial life and her rebuilding trust. And the

way to do that is a micro commitment every day to be a person who is trustworthy. Mhm. >> And that's going to involve transparency and accountability and having a joint account and we know the plan and freezing your all both of your credit.

Freeze all the accounts so that nobody could open debt in your name, including you. Make it really hard. Add the friction there so that we're not tempted.

>> And if you do all of those things and get on a budget, there's there's definitely hope here. We can get out of this pretty fast.

>> Okay. Well, a question with the snowball is um is it because like I said, most of them they're all around the same. They're all like 6,400 6300 6600. I'm

looking at >> Yeah. So, what I would do then is I would do them in order. If it's 6,400, you know, if the 6,300 one is the smallest one, do that one first and then do the 6400 one and then do the 6600 one. So, when you do the debt snowball, everybody, what we're doing here is we're listing the debts smallest to largest by balance, not by monthly payment, not by interest rate.

It truly is by balance. And when you do that, you get those small wins quickly. Uh you feel that that rush of uh dopamine. You feel like, hey, I did something and you want to go to the next one.

And it really is proven to be the best method to pay off your debt quickly.

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All righty, back to the phone lines.

George, are you ready? >> I hope so. >> All right, we got Sarah who's in Las Vegas, Nevada. What's up, Sarah? How can we help today?

>> Hi there. Good afternoon. Um

I my question is pretty much on u garnishment but also of course your guys's um awesome guidance.

>> Hit us. >> Um my husband uh pretty much pays like

all of our all of our bills and everything. Um recently his wages have

started to be garnished for a car that we voluntarily let go a few years ago.

So now we are um you know I downloaded the Every Dollar app and I'm trying to do the budget and it's like in our face that now we're short on bills. So I'm kind of scrambling looking for a job. Um I have a side business but you know I I obviously need like stable income um to bridge that gap. So I'm kind of scrambling looking for work. Um,

and we just re we've been married for a while, but we just kind of recently started um joining our accounts because of this and working on the budget. Okay.

>> Um, I guess my question is should we or can we do anything about the garnishment? >> How much is the garnishment?

>> Um, I don't know the exact details yet.

He's he's working on on getting that information, but I think >> Oh, so you haven't you haven't seen it actually happen yet? It's just been ordered.

>> No, no, no. Is these wages are being garnished already? I just don't have like the physical paperwork in front of me. >> Do you know the the balance that's owed?

>> No, I don't. Um >> Okay. >> I don't. >> Well, there's some homework there because once we know that, we can develop a game plan to pay it off aggressively using future income. I'm guessing you guys have nothing in savings.

>> We don't. He did, but he does not have anymore. So, we neither of us do.

>> What do you guys make?

>> Uh, well, he makes so before the garnishment uh 43 a year and then after

it would be like 31. So, a month is

basically 2600 because they take it directly from his paycheck. Yeah, it looks like they can uh take up to 25% of

your income on a garnishment. So, this this does have the ability to really mess with you guys. Um >> there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, the lender sued you and they got a judgment that you owed the money and this is next step because you're not paying. >> Did you guys Did you ignore the when you were served like did you ignore this or how how did you get to this point?

>> Yeah, it got ignored pretty much.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, we're not doing that anymore going forward. What's the status on I mean obviously you guys are married, the money's separate.

>> It's like you kind of know what's going on, but you don't know the amount of it.

H how are you? I think my question for you is what's the plan to come together to solve this because going forward what

I'm seeing big picture is we've got to get on the same page and when life hits

we can't ignore it because it just snowballs and makes it worse which you're finding to be true right now.

>> Um >> absolutely. I mean, um, we're pretty

much, uh, honestly, I'm just, we're getting into taking the biblical approach of marriage and finances and everything and, you know, joining our accounts and and being one and that's moving forward, but we do have unfortunately a lot of fight.

>> What other debt do you guys have page?

Um, we have a lot of debt in collections, but right now it's it's uh

it's kind of just our monthly our monthly um our monthly bills like you

know the mortgage, the phone, and cars and everything. >> So, is there anything you can sell in this picture where you could free up some payments and even walk away with some cash? Yeah, because there's there's still a chance that they might settle this for you if you can get with the creditor and say, "Hey, >> if I give you this much lump sum, >> can you call it paid in full?" >> Yeah, that's not off the table.

>> That's That's what I was thinking about.

He's kind of like hellbent. I'm sorry for the reference. He's kind of like bent on, >> well, let's let we have equity. And I have no idea how that works, but he's like, we'll just call the mortgage company and see about that. >> So, he wants to take out a me.

Uh, I I don't know what type, but I just

called to Inquire and they pretty much were like, "Well, you have to run your credit anyways, and we don't even have the credit." >> Good. I'm glad >> we have we don't have >> Please do not use your house as a piggy bank and go into more debt thinking you solved the problem. >> Yeah, debt debt doesn't solve for debt.

The only way you can solve debt is to pay it off with actual earned money. Um,

so here's here's going forward. So, how's the job search going for you?

Um, well, it's it's going. I recently I

haven't worked for a few years at a 9 to5. It's kind of my own business. I kind of, you know, let that go because we need money, but I've been I've been hiring to I mean, applying to pretty much everything within the past few days. >> Today, today I want you to know any job will do for the time being.

And >> can you be a server at the nearest restaurant? We're not talking about a fancy salary job right now. We need any money in the door. >> Mhm.

And then the first order of business is to try to stack up.

Um, and then uh try to put scrunch

together as quickly as you can 60 to 70%

of of what that is or even 50%. Start

small and say, "Hey, go to the creditor directly and say, "Hey, I know we don't have the full 8,000, but we have 4,000 today. Take it or leave it." and and because they're in a position at this point, >> they're not expecting to get much, you know, this garnishment of wages, you know, that they're going to get what they can, but I would at least try to settle it. There's no guarantee there, but I would try that. And then from here on, yes, the solution is income.

There's not going to be a magic wand here. If you guys pull out a heliloc or any other type of loan or personal loan, you are just kicking the can down the field and honestly making things worse for you in the future.

line in the sand and saying no more.

>> This this behavior um of you over here

and me on this side that cannot continue. This idea of not facing our financial issues headon cannot continue.

And I love what you said earlier, Sarah, that you guys are kind of trying to get on to this approach uh with your life and your money. So keep doing that. Matter of fact, I haven't offered this in a long time, George. But if if you guys I love Financial Peace University.

I love Every Dollar, but I love something about like I'm like getting deep in this. So, if you want to get into that, I would suggest it. Local church. I love that for you guys. Uh we're also going to give you Every Dollar if you like the digital approach.

But I think you guys could really use some people around you that are doing this and doing it the right way.

uh FPU uh financial piece always has some OGs in there that can kind of guide you. >> They've been there. >> Yes. And that's what you guys need. This is a complete overhaul for you

>> and I think it's something to be excited about, you know, >> and on top of that, Total Money Makeover. We're going to send you a copy of that. So, in between classes, you're going to be reading this book together and it's going to fire you guys up. And if that doesn't light a fire under you, I don't know what will.

>> But that's the game plan. It's no new debt whatsoever. Freeze your credit so that you can't do something as dumb as taking on a heliloc. Then we're going to cut our expenses down to nothing and every dollar will help you with that.

Then we're going to try to increase our income as much as possible. And that gap, that beautiful gap is called margin. You're going to use all of that to attack these debts to save up a lump sum to try to get these other debts out of collections because that those debts are next. They're going to come suing you for those.

And so it's like whack-a-ole right now trying to clean up these debts. Mhm. But the good thing, what we're teaching you, Sarah, is you, it feels like you don't have control over the situation, but you can gain control over it very quickly.

Something truly happens when you sit down at night, George, and you do your budget for the first time. And even if it's in the red, for you to just list out this is the money coming in and this is the money going out. For a lot of people, it's the first time they've ever seen it. That >> Sarah mentioned that.

She said, "We did the budget and realized, oh my gosh, we're in the red every month. We can't keep doing this." >> Yes.

And that for me is the biggest piece.

It's going to take time. It's going to take time to turn this around. But then to be able to say, "Okay, now I'm reading the total money makeover. I'm going to f my FPU class." All of those things combined is exactly what you need

to stay motivated. Light a fire under your butt. keep listening to the Ramsay show. That's the type of stuff that Sam and I did when we were paying off our debt. And you kind of have to just jump

off the cliff wholeheartedly and really just submerge yourself in a new lifestyle. >> Just have faith that this process works because 10 million people have gone before me and have done it.

>> Yes. >> Not is you got to go all in. You got to do it by the book. And there's a reason it works. >> There's a reason it works. I'm excited for you guys, Sarah. This is the precipice of a brand new beginning. And be sure to call us back and let us know how things are going or if you need any help whatsoever.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

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Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

Hey, welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Windows Credit Union studio. It's myself, Jade Warshaw, next to George Camel, continuing to take your calls. And we have Austin who's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hey, Austin. How are you?

Hey guys, how are you? Can you hear me?

Okay, >> absolutely. Fire away.

>> Excellent. Wonderful. Thank you for taking my call. So, I'll try to be brief here.

Um, we're a family of five with three kiddos and uh we have just under $100,000 in debt, not including our mortgage. Um, and while we can make minimum payments and are trying to tackle one of them, we just we feel so defeated. And our youngest has just been diagnosed with a lifelong medical condition and our oldest um is on the spectrum. And so a lot of our credit card debt went to helping get him resources that we that he needed.

Um but we just, you know, you close our eyes, you wake up, and we just have all this debt.

>> Oh man. Yeah, that's tough. That's that's tough to go through, especially with the medical challenges. Um how's your income in all of this?

>> Yeah. Household income is 164,000 a year. >> Good. That's a great income. You got You mean you got a big pile, but you got a nice big shovel to help clean it up, which is nice. Can you tell me like the breakdown of the debts?

>> Sure. So, it's a little bit like death by a,000 cuts. So, uh we've got roughly

$40,000 in credit card debt between two credit cards. And again, those were some of it was poor financial decisions on our part, eating out, etc. But a lot of that was the medical stuff. Um I have $20,000 in student loans.

And we have two car uh payments. One of them is 28,000 and it's a relatively new car and the other is 8,000. So, it's kind of close to being paid off. >> Okay.

Now, you guys' income, is that just you or do both you and your wife work? >> Uh, we both work.

>> Okay, great. Okay, so what I'm looking

at straight off the bat is maybe the first car that's worth 28,000. Um, what's it worth?

>> Yeah, that's what's tough. Um, so we did the Kelly Blue Book value and if we got like the perfect buy or perfect money, it's probably at about 30,000 even. So we'd make a little bit, but then we're like, well, what do we do for a a decent safe car for her? Because she uh is from a different country and so she's learned to drive as an adult and so she's a little anxious if the car doesn't have a lot of those safety features to help her out.

>> Interesting. Um, that might be solved with some driving lessons, but I think that you could find a if you took the 2000s, do you have any cash saved?

>> We did, but we unfortunately depleted that. So, we're it's kind of embarrassing to admit that, honestly. So, we have to build that back up.

>> Don't be embarrassed. But what what would be a goal if coming away from this call is if you can sell that and and pocket 2,000, obviously you're going to need to put $1,000 aside for baby step one, which is just that starter emergency fund. But then I'd very quickly be trying to scrge together, I

don't know, 7 or 8,000, and and just get a a a car that is safe, that is reliable, that gets her from point A to point B. Um and honestly, driving

lessons. >> Yeah. I mean, any any modern car from the last decade is going to be safe to drive. It doesn't need all every single bell and whistle of, you know, the lights on the >> on the mirror to let you know there's a car next to you and all that. >> A lot of that's just paying attention, too. Um, >> but you guys you bring home 10K a month or so.

>> Yes. And that's um and she might actually get a pretty healthy raise coming up and I might too actually. But we can't bank on that. So this is like and that's where the thing is because we are we are really tackling I think we're doing it backwards but and I was going to ask you about our high interest credit card but we're doing like the opposite of the snowball now that we realize what the snowball is and they fix that but we've been trying to throw money at the high interest credit card and we're throwing like almost two grand a month at that and the minimum payments everywhere else.

Yeah, >> we're just >> I I I'd swap this around. I'd swap this around.

>> Um that we do it twice monthly, but it's altogether about $500 a month.

>> Yes. So if we said, "Hey, 2,000 from the sale and instead of throwing 200 $2,000 at this credit card every month since it's not even the smallest debt, what if we pocketed that for two months in a row, now we have $6,000. We can find a very reliable car. Surely there's someone in the community that you know.

Ask around your church. Ask around at work. Surely somebody's selling something or knows somebody who is. And I I like a used car like that because then I can get a more accurate picture of what the background of the vehicle is.

plus to add that to now the margin of the 2,000 that you were already throwing at the debt, now you got $2,500 a month that you're pounding this debt with. >> And it knocks out over 25% of your debt right there. So now you're down to 72 making 164. Now it's a solvable problem and you're not going to be driving that car forever.

So I don't want you to think, you know, oh my gosh, this is a death mobile. I can't drive this.

>> Yeah. And your current car is worth $8,000 and you guys have been driving that one just fine. So that that would be a full argument for that that choice to be made. Second thing is uh I I love that for you. Second thing is I think you did say that you're getting right side up on doing the debt snowball the correct way which again by balance is what I would do. So what's the smallest balance that you have laying around and you can include student loans in that too by the way.

>> Yeah. So I guess the other one would be that $8,000 uh my car which we we could probably take care of pretty quickly. So it's the $8,000 then it would be the two credit cards. Um, our highinterest one actually is at about 15,000 and we um

we're planning on using my wife's bonus to knock that down 3 or 4,000, but maybe we'll rethink that now with this.

>> Um, then we have another credit card at 21,000. >> Okay. >> Um, and my student loans at 20,000.

>> And the student loans is just one big chunk. It's not divided into smaller loans. >> It actually is divided in smaller loans.

I don't know exactly what those breakdowns are right now, but they add up to just shy of 20,000. Yeah, I'd look into that because again, the whole method behind the madness of the debt snowball is small wins. So, if you can, you know, say you look at that student loan, my guess is it's probably broken into $5,000 chunks. I don't know. I'm just going maybe by semester. But if you can feel that, oh, we knocked out 5,000.

And you can see it as four pieces instead of one giant chunk, it does feel like it's almost the feeling of I don't know if you're like this, but I love making a list and being able to check things off my list. It just feels great.

And it's the same way with debt. And so if you can look into that tonight and you might find, oh, this is broken into four or five smaller loans, that is going to do so much for your psyche while paying off this debt.

>> So, we talked about income, we talked about the debt. The last piece here is the expenses. And I can tell you guys have just been in survival mode, which means we're just going to eat out cuz ain't nobody got time to go get groceries and cook. We are stressed.

We're exhausted. >> That's exactly right. >> Right. And so it's not because you're maniacal, you're just human beings.

>> No. And yes, and I will say since December, we've gotten, you know, really intentional about cooking at home, not eating out, doing all those things. And we've seen a pretty good difference. But yeah, it's just the exhaustion after the end of the day. That's the temptation.

>> That's where the spending happens. It's scrolling in bed at 11:00 p.m. and just adding to cart and going through the drive-thru. And so that's really going to be a great opportunity for you guys to create even more margin because you have a great income.

We can all agree. You know, if you were 18-year-old Austin, you're going, "You're going to make $10,000 a month take-home one day." You'd be like, "We are rich." That's right. And instead, you're looking around going, "We don't have enough money to pay our bills." And so, we've got to take some serious action because once we do clean this up, you guys are going to be in such great shape to build wealth for the rest of your life once we're done with this debt. And then you'll be able to keep up with the medical needs.

That's an even better reason to become debtree. When you got those little kiddos as your why, there is nothing that will stop you. And that's one part that we didn't really talk about, knowing what their medical needs are going forward. And you may need to have a fund that's there to the side if you know, hey, we're spending, you know, a certain amount, a couple hundred dollars on this a month or maybe even a couple of thousands of this over the course of a quarter.

Uh, I would certainly have that money set aside aside from your normal emergency fund, just knowing, hey, this is part of our budget at this point.

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All righty then. Back to the phone lines we go where we have Steve who's in Chicago, Illinois. Steve, happy to have you on the phone lines, my man.

>> Thank you for having me on.

>> You're welcome. Um, how can we help?

>> Um, so me and my wife, we got married in

2024. Um, she's originally from the

Philippines and she still has her family there. Um, one in particular is her mom

and her mom as of recently has come on

some financial problems um that we want

to help support her and we're we're blessed. We're in a good spot. We can do that. The problem is that she lives with

her son.

>> You're breaking up a little. >> Broke up on us, Steve.

>> Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yeah. Just repeat what you said.

>> She lives with who?

>> She lives with her son. So, my wife's brother. >> Okay. >> And he's, I think, 42, 43 and hasn't had

a job in many, many years. And the

problem is he's basically siced off everything that she had for retirement.

M >> where the problem is we want to support her but we don't want to enable him at the same time. So we're not really sure what to do with that situation.

>> Well at that point you're just enabling his behavior.

>> Exactly. >> So all you'd have to do theoretically you could talk to her and say hey here's what we see mom and this is your your wife talking. Uh we see that you could use some help and we'd like to help you.

Um, the only way we can do that is if you're separate from my brother because

what we've observed is not good for you and we cannot give you money knowing that it could enable him. But my second

question to follow up that is how is it not enabling your mom or the mother-in-law? Is she unable to work?

Like tell us more about that part >> because this sounds like a forever problem. >> Yeah. >> That you're going to have to manage >> if you start giving her money forever.

Yep. So, she's retired. She had a good

nest egg. Um, they actually sold some land and soldiing and stuff um where she had a decent amount of money. And we've had that conversation with her of like, hey, she actually had a a condo in a different area, but she refuses to leave the brother behind because she's worried about him and his life and stuff, but it's hard to explain it to her um to where we want to support her. But at the same time, you know, we see the enabling that's happening. You may not be able to >> whether she knows or not.

>> Yeah. And that's where we're at.

>> If you know, giving uh having stipulations or having um something that you need to see in order to know that money is going to be spent responsibly, that's not mean or wrong or unfair. It's

just honestly being a financially responsible adult. And if you've observed that she has not been responsible with her money and that there is a person who is taking advantage of her, but she refuses to leave that situation where she's being taken advantage of, there's not a whole lot that you can do whether that other than say, "Hey, this offer is here if

ever you want it, but these are the terms of it and you know, we love you, but we can't let you know, Billy Bob,

who's 43, continue to take your money and therefore take power money and um

take it or leave it.

>> How much are you giving her right now?

>> Um right now we've given her $1,000, but

um you know that's No, that right now it's been one time. >> Okay. >> Um she she actually um reason she's in

dire straits and she reached out to some of her sisters for money and then her sisters my wife's aunts reached out to us to let us know because she didn't want us to know about it.

>> Shame or what?

I think so. I think that's the biggest thing because she knows that her son is

a problem. >> Yeah. >> But everyone's healthy. Is everybody healthy?

>> Yeah, everybody's healthy. >> And how old is she?

>> I think she's 70 that I mean,

>> so yeah, going out and getting a job is not going to be the easiest thing here. >> I think if you wanted to give and you knew the exact needs, you can try to give directly to those needs. So, if it was, I don't know, covering her taxes and insurance for the year or covering groceries, you can make sure she gets a gift card that's, you know, in her control so that he's not just getting access to a bank account.

>> Absolutely. >> So, there's there's things you can do to try to separate this. But again, it's up to her to not enable him at that point and somehow turn this into him getting this money anyways. But, if you can give directly to the need and that way he can't get access, that's probably the best way to do an ongoing gift.

And it's also okay to say, "Hey, we can do a onetime gift of $5,000. We can't give you any more money.

Is somebody else uh providing for him

that he's able to kind of do the other things he needs to do? He's just living there.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, he got access to her money for a long time. Um, he actually sold some family land. He lived off of that for a while. Well, he's always going one to to another thing after another. >> Is he an addict of some sort?

>> Nope. Nothing like that. I >> Where is he blowing all this money?

>> We don't know.

>> That's the part that scares me. I just want to make sure that your mom is in a safe environment as well or your mother-in-law. And that might be a conversation between your wife and her to figure out, >> you know, what really is going on underneath the surface. How can we really help to give directly to the needs if we're going to continue giving at all?

>> Yeah. cuz right now I would pause until you have more information cuz right now you might be throwing money into the abyss. >> I would agree with that. And probably the most important thing out of this entire conversation is whatever you guys decide, you both have to feel good about it, you and your wife.

It has to be something that you feel like yes, this is money well spent and that she feels like it's money well spent because all of this is sheer generosity.

that reason, um, it's not something that must be done that is really yours to solve, but out of the goodness of your hearts, if you're doing this, that's a great thing. I just would not want it to cause any resentment, uh, between you two who are married. So, >> good advice. >> That is a tough one. All right. Thank you for the call. Let's go to Jack, who's in Kansas City, Missouri. Hey, Jack. How can we help?

>> Hi, how are you guys? >> Good. What's up?

So, I um am looking to figure out what I

should do with a decently large sum of

money. I I don't have any debt. Um I

basically have $200,000 um of like liquid cash that I've saved.

And then I just had a a judgment um in

court that is awarding me about $530,000.

Wow. Like I said, Yeah. I mean, I've paid I've always been really um I mean, I've been longtime followers of the show, so like um I've always been very careful. Um I don't have any credit cards. I paid my student loans off. Like I don't have anything that's outstanding. >> And you'll be sitting on three quarters of a million dollars.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Wow. How old are you?

>> I'm 28. >> Single? >> Yes. >> Are you renting?

>> I am currently I'm currently renting with my brother the past couple of years. So that's where I'm at with that.

Cool. >> Is there any like health or anything going forward that you need to know about? >> Um, no. I mean, I'm I'm a pretty healthy guy. The one thing that I did do um just at the end of last year was because I wanted to get a good start on it. I did open like a Roth IRA and contributed like 7,000 just to the for the past year just to get a good start. >> Yeah. Great. >> Um but still I have all this that I feel like I could do something with.

>> Yeah. I would split it across a few areas. Number one is giving. I think that's a wise thing to do with any amount of money that you get. And the other one would be saving and investing.

And so that could be, hey, I'm going to max out another Roth IRA for the year and I'm going to put a chunk of this into an investment account, like a brokerage account, non-retirement, just to have it grow with compound interest or compound growth. And then the final thing is you may want to buy a house with cash or upgrade your car with cash to a reasonable car and enjoy some of that money cuz locking in a house in cash at your age is one of the best wealth building moves you could make.

>> Yeah. Find something about that cuz Yeah. I I bought um my my car with with

cash like a brand ordered it brand new car and I loved driving that away knowing that it was mine. Um and then I thought about the house thing. I just I didn't know if that would be like a really wise move to go for that.

>> Yeah, don't go crazy. But, you know, I don't know what houses are in your area, but if there's a, you know, a single family home that's I don't know, $400,000, I mean, that's you'd still have plenty left over to invest and give and enjoy. And so, I would do all three things with it. I would spend, save, invest, and give.

And if you do all of those things, you won't feel like you have a flat tire. But I love prioritizing a home. I mean, home ownership at 28, you'll be a unicorn, especially with a paid for house. So, that's the key is try to do everything with cash for the rest of your life.

You've already been doing that. That's going to be the best way to steward this money wisely. >> I love that idea. And just because you can afford a $600,000 house doesn't mean you need that.

Just get what you need for your life in this moment.

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All right, Manny is in Orlando, Florida.

Hi, Manny.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> You're welcome. How can we help today?

>> So, um my mother is 65 years old. Uh her

house is paid off. Uh she collects u social security and uh she uh kind of a

house hack. She's got two studio

apartments in her house, uh, which she rents out and that's what she uses for income. Um, however, uh, she has very,

uh, low retirement savings, about $50,000.

Uh, so my my idea was to, uh, outright

buy her house, uh, so she can retire in

the house and and have some money to

enjoy her retirement. And so that was

kind of my question whether this would be a good thing. Um and my concern is

that she would uh she would remain um

continue to rent out the couple studio

apartments within her house and whether you know um that that would be advisable

uh thing to do.

>> So you'd buy the house so she has the cash spending money. um she'd continue to live in it and you're just kind of would b your time until the day comes where the property would roll would be empty and roll back to you.

>> Correct. >> How much is the house worth?

>> I would I mean on realtor.com it's about

$400,000.

>> Okay. Um before I ask you if you have

the ability to do this financially, how much how much is her social security and how much does she pull in from the rent?

All right. So, she pulls in about $2,000 a month for the rent. So, $1,000 per studio. >> Uhhuh. >> And her social security is about $1,000 a month. >> Okay. And she's able to cover all of her bills.

>> She is. >> Okay. So, why why do we need even more if she's doing fine?

>> Well, just because she's only she only has 50,000 um no 401k, just $50,000 in a savings

account. Well, what's she going to use the extra money on if her if she's living life? Increase her lifestyle.

>> Exactly. To be able to enjoy retirement and be able to travel. That's what she does. She just likes to travel.

>> Understood. >> Uh so that's >> but I feel like at this point you feel responsible for her lack of retirement.

Well, it's a way for me to, you know, get be get back to her and and uh not not necessarily responsible, but I um I

I I have a couple rental properties and so I'm just in a position where where I

can um >> How much money do you have >> in some way? Uh I've got about 300 cash.

>> Okay. So, you couldn't afford it in full right now anyways?

Well, well, I could um but um you know,

my idea would be to >> take on a mortgage, >> you know, if it's No, no. If it's, you know, if it's worth 400, my my proposal

would be like to do it like a 300 and

and be responsible for taxes, insurance,

and all that. >> That feels messy >> throughout the years. >> So, you want her to give you a 25% discount?

Well, you know, we could we haven't really discussed numbers and I honestly I could pull the 400 if um if need be.

Um >> but that's all your money.

>> I mean, is that all I mean when when George asked you how much cash do you have and you said 300, is that all your money? All your cash that you have?

>> No, no, no. It's just a liquid cash that I have. You know, I could >> give us a full snapshot. Give us a full snapshot. Tell us how much debt you have. Tell us about your give us a bigger piece of this so we can understand how many properties do you have, how much cash do you have, what's in your retirement. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, my my home is

paid off. Um and then I have two rental properties that are also paid off.

>> Okay. >> Uh and then and then liquid uh cash in

the bank is 300.

>> Okay. >> And then I've got a couple liquid accounts um that are 200,000.

>> Okay. All in all, liquid, you know, cash

and couple accounts that are pretty liquid is is 500,000.

>> Wouldn't it be cheaper just to if you want to bless her cover the taxes and insurance on that house instead of you buying it?

>> Well, I mean, paying taxes and u that that

wouldn't really help her or afford her to be able to travel how she wants to.

But she can't afford it is my fear. And right now it's sort of you're artificially propping up her life. Who knows how long she could live another 30 years, right? She's in good health.

>> Or if the if the if the renters don't want to live there anymore, right?

>> Or if she blows through that money, >> then that's another concern I had. Yeah.

>> And so these are all real. >> She might be resentful. >> I would rather you give her 10 grand a year to go travel. That would be a cheaper option with less mess than you buying this house, but she gets the rental money and it's kind of in your name, but she's still living there.

And then what if you need to sell it one day for whatever reason? Now you got to evict your elderly mother. I just think it's just too messy to get involved at this stage. >> Messy.

>> Yeah. I I just personally wouldn't do it. >> She doesn't need the money. And if she wants to travel, she might need to go make some, you know, do a part-time job in order to come up with the money.

or if she wanted to downsize and sell this home and buy a smaller apartment or, you know, there's there's options here that I think she has uh that she may not want to do uh nor really need to do at this point.

stepping in and trying to do this is just going to lead to more problems down the line. And for that reason, I I agree with George. I'd rather spot her some cash as a gift, maybe here or there for a trip, um if you want to do that. But

uh she's got options here. She's sitting on a nice piece of of property that she's paid for over the course of years.

So, unless somebody did that for her, that lets me know she's got some wherewithal on being able to handle her money, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. And those those were those were my hesitations as well as >> Would you be It does sound pretty messy.

>> Would you inherit the property solely? I

have three I have uh three sisters and

uh kind of talking to them about this idea. They were um at first they were not so happy with it.

>> Mhm. Because they were going to get a piece of that upon inheritance and now they don't. >> They'll get a piece of whatever's left of mom's pile of money which will likely be gone if she's traveling the world for the next, you know, several decades.

And the truth is here, I mean, >> the the hard part with this is we all have a picture of what we want for our loved ones. All of us do. And sometimes

that's just not the reality. And there may be I mean I this sounds harsh, but it's just it's just I'm I'm just being a realist right here. She may not get to travel as much as she wants to. Her life her life and her lifestyle does not afford that to her.

And all of us face that every single day. I there's things I would love to do right now, but I can't afford to do it. So, I will either have to change something about my financial situation. I'll either have to wait.

I'll either have to save up. I'll either have to Right.

for me to try to clean up and make perfect.

>> Yeah. >> What if there was a compromise? Does she want to travel solo or is she liked experiences with other people or family?

>> Both both ways. We, you know, whenever we take a cruise, we bring her along.

Uh, so, but she does also like to travel

solo to like South America and Central America kind of thing. >> That's cool. I'm wondering if there's a compromise here. I'm wondering if you go, "Hey, mom, once a year, I'd love to take a fun trip with you.

You get to decide where we go. Here's the budget." >> So, now she gets to live that dream without you being intermingled with the finances and mom's a tenant. Now, I like that plan better cuz I I can tell you're a noble guy. You're a great son.

You want to bless your mom. You want her to have a great life, but I don't think artificially funding it by buying her house when she could sell it for more is the move.

you make this happen. >> I agree with that. And as long as you put really strong and clear boundaries and very clear expectations if you do decide to do these trips, you got to be so clear with that. Otherwise, next thing you know, it's like, "But I want to go to the Bahamas." That wasn't part of the deal, Mom.

Heat. Heat.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Shelby in Indiana. I have two children under 5 years old who are beginning to get invited to birthday parties for kids in their playgroups and daycare. This can get pretty expensive depending on how many parties are scheduled, and it's hard for me to justify spending a lot of money for children we're not especially close to.

>> Well, so much more information I want here.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, number one, I don't know her financial picture. Now, if she's in baby step two, drowning in debt, it looks like a lot of, "Hey, wish we could make it >> or a real simple gift that the kids make." It can be, it doesn't have to be a $15 gift. Cuz the truth is under 5 years old, they're about as excited about a cardboard box as they are about the thing in the box.

>> Yeah. I mean, I those little Matchbox cars. >> Oh, I love this.

Like, they're not $6. Like, they're not expensive. I would >> I would, >> if you're in debt, if you're in Baby Step 2, I would for sure cap the amount of birthday parties that we're going to, and I would cap the amount that we're spending. And it's just like you said, something small. a $5 gift. I think that you could do that and that way your 5-year-old is not feeling like, >> you know, I missed Isabella's birthday party. >> Yes. And I will say these birthdays have gotten out of hand. They have.

>> It used to be simple.

>> Like I remember it was just like come over. We're going to get a few pizzas. Now it's like you got to get like a white bounce house. It's going to be like a progressive dinner. It's out of control. I'm going to one, Jade, for my two-year-old daughter got a kid in her

little daycare, and there's a full-on petting zoo with exotic animals.

>> You want to know where I come from? I come from the roller rink, George. >> That's what I'm talking about. >> The sticky carpet, questionable individuals, bad pizza, like take >> 10 bucks for unlimited skate. >> Okay, take me back to that. But yeah, this business, don't get caught up is what we're saying. >> I would cap it um just out of principle.

I don't think kids need expensive birthdays. I think they need stable parents. So, unless this is a kid that they're really close to, and maybe the kid chips in, if they want to go to all these birthdays, all right, you're going to do these chores, get a little commission, >> and you can use your own money to buy whatever toy you deem fit. And that'll they'll feel the pain.

They'll go, you know what? Uh, maybe I don't need to get that $20 toy. >> Can I tell you something else I've adopted? >> What's that?

>> Now, hopefully this doesn't get >> This is going to go viral. >> All right, here's what you do.

>> Oh, and it's cute. So, it's cutesy. If

they're three years old, you put three crisp dollar bills in the card. If they're four years old, and that way it's like it's thoughtful cuz you're thinking about, I know how old you are.

I went to the bank and I got four crisp

bills. That's effort. >> So, there's effort there. And it's very like if you're an auntie or an uncle or whatever, it's just a very cool way to send it in the mail or if it's a buddy's birthday and it's kind of like this is this is what their family does.

Like this is what the Waraws do or this is what your I I love that idea because it's thoughtful but it's not breaking the bank. They're three years old. They don't need >> Well, my favorite part is it doesn't add to the clutter. >> It doesn't add to how many toys these kids have.

>> Yeah. And then on the way home they'll stop and they'll get a fun drink or they'll get a, you know, stop through the driveway. But I really like that plan. And kids love money.

It's like magic to them. They do. >> They think it's a million dollars if you get a kid $5 bill. >> All you got to do when you do the magic trick when you pull the quarter out from your ear.

>> Yes. >> Listen, dropping like flies. >> I like that.

I would set a cap and a budget because that is teaching your kids a whole lot more. We don't just unlimited do whatever we want no matter the cost. We make a plan and we stick to it >> like that. All right, let's go to Savannah who is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Savannah, you are on the line, my friend.

Hi, Jaden George. How are you doing today? >> Excellent. How can we help?

>> Thank you. All right, I'll make this really quick. So, I have a son who was in high school and he has a vehicle that I purchased for him and he is responsible for some of the car expenses. And here's where my question comes in. He was in a car accident that was pretty hesky. The repairs um was about $3,000.

He did borrow $450 from me and did repay

me back after about two months. And here's where my question comes in because I'm really struggling with this every day. Um, as soon as he handed me

the money and it got to my hands, I felt so guilty. My first thought was, "This $450 meant more to him than me, and I'm really struggling with this feeling. Did I handle this correctly?" >> Um, I I understand why you did what you

did. Like, I understand your heart behind it. It sounded like you wanted him to have some skin in the game and to have some responsibility in what took place. The the part where I think you may have gone wrong is you caused him to engage in his first like debt. Like I

owe my mom and now what you guys experienced is kind of like the borrower slave to the lender. >> It changes the relationship. >> Exactly what I felt.

>> That's exactly what I felt. I thought >> you also taught him a great lesson. Life costs money and you got to be prepared and it's not always you're not always going to get bailed out.

>> It's not the first time he's going to have a $450 bill. And so it's a good learning lesson and you can even have the conversation. Hey, the way I approach this, I wish I would have done things differently. I wish I didn't say you you owe me this money, but we had to do what we had to do.

And what I do want you to take away from this is emergencies are going to happen and it's very wise to be prepared to have the savings in the bank.

>> Now, didn't you say didn't you say it was 3,000 in repairs?

>> It was. >> So, you covered the difference.

>> Uh, no, he did. >> Oh, >> I gave him some money, you know, for Christmas time toward it. I think about $300, but no, my my hardworking son

>> Wow. >> paid for it. Mhm. >> Well, way to go. So, he was just short a few hundred bucks and you were said, "Hey, you can I'll cover that. You can pay me back." >> Correct. >> Uh-huh. Yeah. Maybe. Um,

>> and he didn't ask for the money.

>> He did. No, he did. >> He said, "Hey, I'm sorry. >> I don't have enough." >> What I And then you can think about this.

what I might do cuz I I tend to think that some of these lessons stick the when a when a parent makes what they feel to be a mistake and they go back to their uh children and make it right that really sticks. Um and I think it's something that is so good for parents to do for our own hearts but also for our kids to learn that it's okay to make mistakes.

I might say, "You know what? I didn't practice something that I believe in, which is I don't I don't borrow money and I don't engage in debt." And I'm sorry that I put you in that situation.

The best time to give people money is if it's a gift. And so if I was going to give you this $450, it should have been a gift. And that's on me. And I might give him the money back.

>> Okay. >> And he'll always remember that.

>> Yeah. >> And he'll remember that as a lesson. We don't borrow money, we give money.

>> Yeah, that's exactly what I thought after the whole thing happened. But I wanted to see another perspective of it that, you know, should I return it back?

Where I was thinking, >> you're a great parent. Like, the fact that you're even mulling over this is I

mean, it's pure gold. Like, whatever whatever you decide to do, like you'll be a winner. But >> a quote unquote bad mom is not even having this conversation. I release you of the mom guilt officially, Savannah.

as if you needed that for me. But no, you're incredible. You're doing a great job raising this young man. And I think this is maturity building.

>> I think so. >> Character building. It's not punishment.

You're not doing anything cruel.

>> No. >> Things happen. A kid's going to wreck a car. >> Yeah. And by the way, don't don't don't you feel any guilt over it, you know? Uh

I think just being a parent is making

mistakes daily. Like that's the way I feel about it. >> You know, when you grow up and you're like, "Oh, my parents were just figuring it out." Bro, I feel >> cuz now I'm in that stage and they look at you like you have all the answers and you're like, I googled it. >> Yeah.

Oh, yeah. >> At least we have Google now. I don't know what our parents did. >> They just followed their instincts.

Uh, I overrode my instincts and instead I Googled it." Um, >> AI is now raising our kids. That's a frightening thought. >> Oh boy. Oh boy. But the point is, I think that as parents, when we make a mistake, it's okay to go back and correct it. Specifically when it comes to money, because then they understand this is trial and error for everybody.

And if you make an error, you can always go back and make it right again. And I tend to think that those uh lessons stick the most when you're a kid and as an adult. >> Yeah. You don't want to always rescue them because that creates dependence. And so instead, you give them some responsibility. That's going to build some strength. So don't remove the consequences. Your job is to raise a capable adult, not a child who doesn't know any better.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Let's go back to the phone lines, George, shall we?

>> I'm in. >> All right, Greg is in Texas. Greg, you are on the line, my friend.

>> Thank you'all for having me. >> You bet.

>> How can we help today?

>> Well, I am recently engaged. Um, and we

are extremely excited about that. We have, um, I've listened to y'all for years, and I've talked with her about

budget. I've talked with her about our finances. We've gone back and forth and

we agree on just about everything. Um, however, there's one thing where I'm having a bit of a moral quandry.

Um, we both own our own homes. Um, and

the plan is to sell my house and move in to hers. >> Okay. >> Um, which I'm comfortable doing. She

wants to do some repairs. Um but

ultimately she doesn't want me on the deed to her house >> that >> of this current home.

>> Okay. >> Um she has witnessed her mom go through several divorces and struggle with home

ownership. So worst case scenario, she wants to make sure that she has this paid for home. She doesn't she has a mortgage on it currently, but she agrees

with me to get out of debt and kind of snowball through everything and work the baby steps and that's fantastic. But she doesn't want me on the deed.

>> She trusts you, but only to a point

>> pretty much. >> Okay. And there is a mortgage, you're saying, but she's wanting to pay it off.

>> Well, she wants to us to move forward and pay it off. Now, I have a unique opportunity. I'm about to the business that I work for is about is possibly going to sell and my proceeds from that will be about a half a million dollars in cash. >> Amazing. That's awesome.

>> So, thank you. Um it it's a boon for me.

I've never had that kind of cash before.

>> Yeah. And um my question is do I do we

just work the baby steps and I act like that money is set aside and it's in a investments and other things or do I try

to attack the debt and get out of debt as soon as possible? >> I mean there's two things here. I I I'm

of the mind yes if you guys are married your finances should be together. The if you have the extra money to do things like pay off mortgages I'm all for that.

But before we even get to that, I do want to go back to your wife because on the on the bigger scale, um you being on the deed, you know, we can make the argument of, hey, you're married after a certain point. If anything happens, the house is going to pass to you anyway, blah blah blah. But what we're really seeing is it is a trust issue and it is due to something that she experienced, which is completely valid.

past relationships and what we saw growing up, all of that informs how we view money. And so, yeah, when you get experts like uh George or I giving you a simple piece of advice, everybody's going to filter that differently through what they've experienced. And some people are going to go, "Yeah, that makes sense. No problem." And other people are going to go, "Whoa, absolutely not. I I can't." And so what

what she needs to understand is it's very easy for a good excuse or a good reason even to become a bad excuse. If she allows that to persist and doesn't get the help that she needs to process through that, it's going to keep her from having the marriage that she ultimately wants. Um, before we get off the show, I'm going to give you a copy of my book, What No One Tells You About Money, because I think that's really going to help her process those emotions around what's going on, so that you guys can have the best possible financial picture and best possible marriage in this whole thing.

Um, do you think she'd read the book if you gave it to her?

>> I do. >> Okay. Do you think it's something that she wants to work through?

Um, I I think through our continued

conversations, she might be waning on it. I'm not sure, but um >> Well, you don't seem like a gold digger, Greg. You're about to acquire a half million on top of whatever else you currently have. So, >> and you want to put it towards her house, which is awesome. >> So, is she not going to get a dime of anything you're bringing into the marriage? Cuz that's what it's turning into.

>> Well, no. I we I believe in joint finances. My parents, they operated that

way their entire lives. So, >> but you would agree it's unfair that you bring all of this into the marriage. You help pay down the mortgage in the future once you're married and you have no claim to the house on paper.

>> That That's what I'm That's what I'm saying. Am I being a butt or am I >> If you ask her, hey, if you were in my situation, how would you feel about all of this? You're not being a butt at all.

But I do think this is an opportunity for you to understand her a little bit more. And I think it's an al I think you both have opportunities here. What George is saying is absolutely right. It's not fair. Like you're in a situation where you're thinking, hey, like hello. But again, back to the first point, you saw parents who managed money just fine, right? So of course that in informs the way you view this. You're like, yeah, what's the big deal?

Understanding her, who is going to be your wife, is it that is going to set you free in so many areas if you approach this from that. not I'm gonna do whatever you say because what you're saying is broken, but I do want to understand where that's coming from and I want to be an active participant in us working through that and getting to a point where it's as healthy as it possibly can be, right? And I think if you approach it that way, she's going to put like her eyes are going to turn into hearts and she's going to love you for that >> if you really dig into this cuz she is operating out of fear.

So the most loving thing you can do is get to the root of that and build the trust with her that her fear is valid, but the outcome is not something that is a possibility cuz I'm guessing there was a very specific reason her mom got divorced or multiple. I don't know the story, right? >> Mhm. >> And do you know the the reasons behind it?

>> Yes, we've talked about it. >> And was it financial? Was it infidelity?

What was at the core of those?

>> Several different uh two of those already. Yes. Um I it I would say infidelity and >> financial. >> Okay.

And so the sooner we can be aligned with our money values and our principles and we say, "Hey, this is how we're going to operate as a family." You guys are already light years beyond probably where her mom was. >> Yeah. >> Right. Relationally, financially.

And so that's I think some good premarital counseling is necessary before you guys move forward on this.

my book. >> Yeah, absolutely. This is something you guys are have the look, it really is an opportunity for you guys to work through this and how great that this is popping up now before you're even married versus on down the line when you're all set in your ways. So, I think if you both can look at it that way, I think that is a a winning combination there.

So, thank you for that call. That's a tough one. >> It is a tough one, George. And that is the truth.

You know, these conversations, obviously, we make no bones about it here that money should be a joint effort. If you are married, it should be combined.

both checks goes in there, and there's no side accounts that is like, well, I put the money for the mortgage in here, and I keep my money. No, both checks go in and both people are aware of the monies. both people are on the budget.

If there are um assets, both people are

on those assets. And it's very easy to

say that um from a healthy perspective,

but anybody who's been burned hears that and goes, "Oh, yeah. Don't listen to them. Protect yourself." And that like human nature is to protect yourself. But >> but I mean part of marriage is letting go and you're risking something in order to be married in this financial merger.

That's right. So, think about it like mergers and acquisitions, right? Except you are acquiring everything she's got and she's acquiring everything you got.

>> So romantic. >> It can't work without that. If you're like, "Well, I want to keep my toys over here, but I want to play with your toys over there." That's not marriage.

>> Doesn't work. >> That's just fancy roommates. And if you're splitting the bill with your spouse, you don't have a spouse. You have a roommate with benefits. >> Oo, >> I'm calling it like I see it. >> Got them.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go where Melanie is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Melanie, you are on the line.

>> Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I have a question that would be in the category of radical generosity. And my question is twofold.

Um, I want to give a very generous gift

to my sister-in-law and her husband and their two best friends. And I first my

question is twofold. First, I need to make sure that my husband is on board. He says that it's excessive. And second, if I can get him on board, how do I get this gift to them without making it weird in our relationship?

>> What's the gift and what's it for?

>> We we want to send them the four of them to Hawaii. Or I do anyway. Why?

>> Well, um they have experienced some health issues. Both somebody in each of the couples. Um my sister-in-law is on the other side of cancer and the husband of the other couples had his his own health issues and he's working his way out of that. Um my in-laws pl they

planned on doing this trip together when they were counting on an inheritance that they were going to get and that fell through. So, they no longer are going to be getting that money. We have the means to send the four of them and I

would like to pay for the resorts, the

excursions and all. Maybe say you guys get yourself there with the flights and we'll take care of everything else.

>> I love that. How wealthy are you?

>> Well, I mean, we're we're fine. So, we

we've retired >> and um I have a pension that is covering

all of our needs and we have 2.1 in

different types of savings and we have our house paid for and we're you taking our own trips that you know we're kind of living the what we wanted to do in our own retirement and we would really like to >> what will it cost >> to do all this for your friends and family? I think I think 25,000 would

cover it and I have 27,000 coming in

July for our early retirement bonus that is that'll be coming in. >> Nice. So, this feels like found money was taken out of >> Yes. Yeah. And I just feel like, you know, it's one of those where Dave says if you could put it in the middle of the >> you could burn it and burn it, you would you wouldn't you wouldn't even notice it. I feel like it's in that category.

>> Yeah. This isn't even like a percent of your net worth. No, >> it's like a percent of a percent of your net worth, >> right? >> I just love your heart on it, too.

>> And is it just is your husband like blindsided by this? Like, is this a big surprise that you're like, "Hey, what if we drop 25 grand to send all these people?" Like, you're not even going on the trip. So, he's like, "I want to go to Hawaii." >> Well, we're we're we're going in September, so >> Okay, good. >> Um it's not like we don't ever do I mean, we went to Greece and so we had some some really great trips planned for ourselves. Um he does kind of give me a

hard time because he's like, "Oh my gosh, you'd give away the house if if you didn't put bumpers on the >> Well, there's usually one person who has, you know, a little more of that generosity muscle and one person who's a little more like, you know, saver. What else could we do with the money?" And that's totally normal. I don't think he's a bad guy. Have you gotten to the root of what he's feeling about this?

Um, I do think that he's concerned with

um maybe what would happen like if like how do you say we would like to gift this to you >> and could that be a problem like you know I don't want to make it weird because we are very close and >> I don't think it's weird knowing the cont.

It's not like you're saying hey you guys are so broke we just want to send you on a trip. It's, hey, you guys have had a lot of life hit you, and you know, my husband and I, we were trying to brainstorm things we could do, and we just thought the most fun thing to do would be to send you guys on a trip, and we'll cover blah blah blah, you guys cover the travel, and you know, that's what we decided. And it's more of just like it's up to them if they want to block the blessing, but it's not you guys making it weird.

>> And I also love that you're sending them. It's not like we're going with you and then the whole time it's kind of like, all right, >> this awkward force like, "Thank you so much for everything." Now, are the couples going together or it's like the the in-laws are going on the trip and then your two best friends are going on a separate trip or is it like a group of them going together? >> Best friends. So, it's our in-laws and their best and >> their two best friends.

Okay. So, the four of them together. >> Is he worried that it feels excessive because that's clearly a lot of people a long distance a lot of money.

going to feel like a flex? >> I think so. And you know, we've we've kind of grew up in a generation where nobody talks about money and you know, you don't >> if there's income inequality. I you know, I don't want that to be >> Yeah. >> between us. >> Well, the other question I had is are they even going to be able to cover the other expenses? Are they in a good financial spot?

>> I think so. M >> um you know I I they you know they they

they don't seem to be hurting for money but they definitely live fertily at the same time you know but but they you know we've done things together and it's not like they are complaining about money. They've been generous to their sons before on different occasions. So >> they're not like drowning in >> tight. >> How would you do it? Is it writing a check or is it >> like like practically how would you do this? I hadn't thought that far that far

because I hadn't gotten to the whether or not we should do it or >> could do it yet. >> Um I'm open to ideas.

>> Uh yeah, I like Let me first say this. I love the idea of being generous. I love that you've seen that they've gone through a struggle and they could probably use a break. I I love that so much.

>> This is the living live like no one else part of living like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. You guys are doing that last part which is highly encouraged and it's the most fun you can have with money. >> Uhhuh. And so the way to there there's multiple ways to do it.

I think that's less exciting and more just like all right, we're going to give them the debit card number when they go to book, >> right? >> It's not it's not like it's rocket science to pay for the trip. >> Yeah.

versus kind of what George said.

>> Yeah. I would try to do it directly to the trip. Otherwise, it's like, well, we can get a lot of groceries with this money now. Maybe the trip will get delayed.

>> I do have a friend that I do have a friend that's a travel agent that is planning our trips. >> Oh, nice. she could plan it and I could just pay her. >> I love that.

And I think that that also gives them the ability to choose when it's a good time for them. So, if you said something like, I don't know, you sit them down, you say, "Hey, we really want to do this for you. We love you guys so much.

So, whenever you're ready, um, you know, get in touch. Yes. Like, do this. do

not, you know, and make sure I I love that because then you're deal agent.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's less awkward because you don't feel like you're directly >> involved in this. You're just sort of the the, you know, fairy angel.

>> Yeah. And and maybe you let them know, you know, here's here's what we're giving. You know, feel free to get what you want, but like my husband and I, we want to put like x amount of dollars towards this. And that way you've kind of said it, but it's not uh in a weird

way. >> Yeah. And if they decline it and go, "Hey, you know what? we're actually not going to be able to take a trip this year for whatever x reason. That's okay.

You still offered it. You were still generous and you didn't just like write a check that sat there and you have to rip it up now. >> Mhm. Now, on your husband's part, that that's the one that's going to be tough.

And I'll tell you, you know, my husband and I are to George's point, there's always one person that's like, "Give it all." And the other person's like, "Hold up. Like, chill out for a second. Like, let's talk." Um, so maybe ask him say, "Hey, if this feels too >> elaborate, what what what do you think?" and maybe you guys can meet in the middle. Um maybe it's somewhere in between all of this that that feels more right for both of you. Um and just be open to that as well.

>> Okay. Okay, that sounds great. I really

appreciate your help. >> Yeah, you're an awesome person. >> Yeah, thank you for the call. >> I do think the ratios help me emotionally cuz I'm probably more like her husband where like the sticker shock I just go that just feels crazy.

>> That's like Sam Warshaw. Yeah. >> And then you go well it's 0.02% 02% of

our total net worth and we're gonna make that much in compound growth this month.

Yes. Oh, and also it's a bonus that she's getting from her early retirement.

>> Yeah. It's found money in many ways.

>> Yeah. That's girl math right there.

>> So, okay. I don't know what you and Whitney do, but ever whenever there's a moment where we're thinking about giving an amount, uh this is this is my strategy. I always say to Sam, I'm like, "Okay, be praying about like what this amount is." >> Oh, that's good. >> That's the first thing.

>> Be praying. There's some spiritual conviction right there. >> It's just like, hey, I want to know that we're both we both allowed, >> you know, the Lord. >> Well, then it's like, hey, it's up to God.

>> It's up to God. >> Whatever he puts on my heart. >> Then what I do then what we do is we count to three and we say our number at the same time. >> I love that.

>> It is always hilarious. And then he'll go, I knew you were going to say that. And I'm like, then why didn't you say the same number as me?

>> He likes to be contrarian.

>> Yeah. So, let's do it. George on on this trip the 25,000 that she wants to spend

on the count of three. I'll tell you what I think she should spend and you tell me what she you think she should spend. All right. You ready? >> Yep. >> 1 2 3 25,000.

>> Boom.

>> God told me. God told me to.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No one Else cruise is back March 14 through 21,

2027. Join the Ramsay personalities and

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Richard is in Nashville, Tennessee.

Richard, how can we help today?

>> Hey, question for you. I'm considering building an apartment on my property for

my daughter and son-in-law to live in until they can uh purchase a home.

They'll pay rent while they're living there. And my two options I think that are good for me is a heliloc or I can do

an auto loan on a vehicle that's paid off. Um probably looking at about 50,000

on the heliloc and can probably get about 40 on the car. I do have the cash on hand, but I think a loan would probably a better idea. I'm just just curious if there's any pros or cons one way or the other. >> Well, there's all cons.

>> Okay. >> All of them. >> Why would it be a good idea to do the title loan or the heliloc?

>> Well, because if I used cash on hand, I I'd not have any cash on hand anymore.

And I've got a ton of equity in my home.

And um I I owe nothing uh any the only

thing I owe on is my home as far as you know in debt with anything. Um I don't

know, maybe it's not a good idea. That's what I'm curious about. >> Well, that those if it's a true title loan, I mean, those are the it's like a payday lender. It's like 25% to 300%

interest. You could lose the car. I mean, the repayment terms are terrible and you get payback in 30 days. Unless you're talking about like you're talking about taking a loan out against your car that's paid for.

>> Well, this is through the bank and it's basically um >> the car's collateral though.

>> Uh yeah, the car is collateral. I' I'd rather lose a car than a house, though.

So, I'm just >> Why is any What's What's so urgent about this? Why can't they just get a normal apartment? Why do you have to build an apartment for them to live in? Tell us more. >> Yeah. Well, um, both of them work

ministry and, uh, they're coming out of

that and so they're not financially

set to do that. Uh, the apartment would be an asset, >> uh, to my current situation. Um, I had I had considered doing it before >> because uh, about two years ago, my father became ill, all of a sudden had to come live with us. Mhm.

>> We just bought an RV and let him live in the RV for a time. Um, and so it just

kind of put on the radar maybe we should have something uh like that available.

>> But what's the long-term plan for them?

It feels like we're just sort of temporarily subsidizing their lifestyle because they're not making good incomes.

>> Yeah. >> So, if they're going to be in ministry long term, they got to figure out how to put food on the table and cover rent.

>> No, I agree with you on that. And so I I'm just wondering if I could help with that. I mean, >> well, here's the thing. I just don't think you can afford it. I I'm always the last call the lady wanted to be like wildly generous. So, we love generosity here. Um, hear me say that. But if you

have to put your home up and your vehicle up for collateral and you're still paying off a mortgage yourself, you simply can't afford to do so. I you're you're, you know, cutting off your nose to spite your face at that point. It's it's it's putting you in a horrible situation and it's putting them in a bad situation because if this goes south in any way, you are going you have

a lot on the line that you can lose.

>> Sure. Yeah.

>> There's just too much risk here. If you want to bless them with like a one-time gift, you can do that. You can write them a check and maybe that covers a certain, you know, number of months of rent for them. But again, I would try to help them actually become independent long term because otherwise now they need you. Now they're codependent instead of independent. And ministry is tough because you don't make a lot of money. It it's why we call it ministry.

But they need to figure out a way either it's bivocational, which is a lot of people in ministry. It's what they do. They have another job that actually pays the bills and they do ministry with their free time. And so I think helping them craft a plan is so much more helpful than anything you could do financially for them at this point.

>> Okay. Well, that's that's helpful insight. Um it certainly gives me

a perspective to mle over and think about and um that's that was my objective and calling to find out, you know, uh am I missing something? Is there um you know, red flags that I'm just not seeing? So I appreciate your input with all that. >> Absolutely. Yeah. you're trying to do it just a nice good thing in a bad way and

then you're you're trying to justify it by saying well I'm also building an asset for me on the side and so I think that's sort of clouding the judgment here because you're looking at it as an investment but if you have to go into debt for it and put your car or home at risk which is what's happening with either of these loans it's a bad idea and if it hurts to part with that much cash because you'll be cash poor then it's also a bad idea so I think that's it's a good gut check to say if I paid cash for this would give me some pause and anxiety.

>> And then the truth is we just can't afford it right now. Not that you never can do something super generous. >> Yeah. It's something to aspire to possibly.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and I think that's hopefully you'll think long and hard about that, but please hear George and I say we would not do this. And by the way, if you don't do this, it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a person who doesn't support ministry.

It just makes you a person who is a financially responsible adult. Okay, let's go to Sam who's in Maryland.

>> Sam. >> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, we can. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm a 25-year-old. Um, I'm hoping

to get married this year to my boyfriend. Um, he's also 25. So, I'm uh

two years postgrad. I'm working full-time and he's a full-time um pharmacy student. Um so the question is that if we were to get married um this fall or winter um essentially we would be financially independent. Um he's fortunate enough right now where his parents pay his pharmacy school tuition.

>> Nice. >> Um if we chose to get married um that financial support would end because we'd be um independent adults at that point.

Um and that would be four semesters of

tuition at around $17,000 per semester.

>> Okay. Um, so the question is, um, do we

delay potentially getting married until after he graduates, uh, or do we take the risk and take out student loans, uh, of a significant amount, uh, and get married sooner than later?

>> Is there an option C? Because A and B suck right now.

>> We can both agree on that. I would not take out student loans. I would not delay marriage until this is all sorted out because of, you know, his beneficiaries here. What I'm confused about is why the parents are saying, "Hey, the day you're married, no more.

>> You're on your own." Even though it's not like he has a job all of a sudden, >> right? >> Yeah. He doesn't. Um, so so both of us come from non-American families and I think um like traditionally with with both of our cultures, it's understood that you're you're essentially independent um once you're married.

So I don't think our his parents were budging in that on that department. And there I think they also uh both of our parents are for the match. I think his parents would prefer um waiting a little bit longer. >> Yeah.

Do they like you? Is this part of like is this despite you >> from from what I've been told I'm wellliked and accepted.

don't think that's the concern. >> Well, because here's the funny thing. If I'm him, I'm like, "Sweet. I guess I'll just never get married because then my parents will fund my life forever." Do you also see how insane that is?

>> Yeah. No. Oh, yeah. I get that.

>> And what about the like what about as a wedding gift? They go, "Hey, as a wedding gift, we're going to cover the rest of his school, but you guys are on your own for the wedding. Would that be a compromise that they might be willing to go for?" >> Um, I'm not sure. I mean, I think maybe you'll have to talk to them a little bit more. Um, but again, in his culture, I

I'll just like throw that under the bus.

I think like traditionally, um, it would be my family paying for the wedding for the most part. Um, and then we're also

not thinking of something doing anything significant. Um, I guess like we could ask about if there is a gift. I'm not sure. >> Well, what are you making?

>> I make $64,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, the question is on the other side, how do we figure out how to cash flow the 17K a year if that's what it's

going to take? >> Well, that's it's time to Yeah, exactly.

>> So, we got 68K we got to cover if we're on our own.

>> Mhm. over how many years?

>> So he has two more full years. Uh so

four semesters total if we're um beginning this fall. >> Yeah. So you're not going to be able to cash flow that making 64.

>> Exactly. >> And so that we run into a problem here.

And which means he needs to do this slower. You could delay getting married.

I wouldn't delay getting married just for this purpose. But it sounds like he hasn't even proposed yet. And then there's still the engagement period. So there still could be another year, year and a half or two years. That's the question I had is if the man hasn't even proposed, then maybe, you know, that buys you some time right there.

>> Maybe we plan the wedding. When he graduates, the wedding happens.

>> Yeah, I like that. >> Best of both worlds. >> Best of both worlds.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

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That's rammissysolutions.com/

our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day. Colossians 3:23 says, "And whatever you do, do it heartily as unto the Lord and not to men." Mark Twain said, "20 years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones that you did do." I like that.

>> Avoid regret. >> Seize the day. Carpey DM. All right.

Kate is in Katie is in Huntsville, Alabama. Katie, you are on the line, my friend. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. I'm so pumped. So nervous, but so pumped. >> I love it. It's a good combo.

>> Yes. We can't wait to hear what you have to say.

>> Oh man, there's so much. But we'll we'll wrap it up. Um so currently right now,

my husband and I are baby step number two. >> And we have about um $12,000 in consumer

debt that I am about to send a $6,000

payment on. So about to cut that in half. Um and I do Yes. I'm so pumped.

Um, and then I'm expecting to have the

remaining balance done by April. And,

um, I've been working like 25 hours extra every week trying to like pump out

the overtime. And my husband, you know, unfortunately overtime's not available for his job, but we are in full gazelle mode, just running and feeling the

passion. Um, however, I am 41 and he's

45 and we have twin almost 15 year olds

that are looking to get their permits.

Um, I have a car loan that is $40,000

and I'm currently 13,000 upside down on it. >> What happened? You said you had 12K.

>> I I'm confused. >> I'm sorry. I forgot about the car. I >> That's a big one to forget about, Katie.

>> You forget about the car in baby step two. >> I can't forget about the car. I can't forget about the car. That's the whole reason I'm calling. >> Okay. So, 40k loan.

>> 40k loan. >> And you're saying it's worth 27?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe 33 if I'm lucky. Um I might

be get might be able to get 33 for it.

But in the end, I'm up upside down.

$13,000 on it. Um roughly.

>> What's your household income?

>> Um my husband makes 93 and I make 54.

Great income.

>> Yeah, it's not terrible. I mean, we used to make better money, but we moved and total God thing and this is where we're supposed to be. So, we're just trying to keep our eyes on that and and stay focused. >> Yeah. It's like double the average household income. So, you guys are crushing it by, you know, America's standards, but when you're in crippling debt, it doesn't feel like that. >> So, what's the main question?

So, my main question is I got kiddos that I'm going to need to get cars for.

Uh, is it because I I know Dave says if

you can pay the car off within two years, then it's potentially up for

keeping, right? Mhm.

>> So, um, do I keep the car or do I forgo

the car because I got my kids potential driving coming up >> and then I have one more wrench to throw in there. >> I'm currently living on folding tables

in my kitchen cuz we bought a home that needed repairs and it ended up being a

disaster. though. I have been in a year in this house with no kitchen.

>> Oh boy. >> So on top of everything else, I'm surviving and it's fine. Like we >> say folding tables.

>> I have no cabinets. I have no kitchen counters. You have a sink. >> I have a >> I have a utility sink in my laundry room. Bubbles. I know >> you're making salad in the bathroom. >> There's a There's a porta potty out back that we all use. It's a good time.

>> Okay. There's a lot did redo all of the plumbing. We did redo all of the electrical because our inspection came back horrific. And actually, no, the inspection came back fine, but once we started going through things, everything had to be replaced. Everything was a firehouse. Plumbing was about to go.

>> Oh boy. Okay. >> So, is this going to be like $50,000 to get this thing up and running?

>> No. So, we've got most of it up and running. So, we dug into our nest egg, which is half the reason we're in our our just >> you like robbed your retirement accounts. >> No, no, no, no. Just the equity from our house that we sold in another state.

>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. A secondary house.

>> Yeah, we sold we we used to live in Colorado and we sold everything to move

here. >> Days of our lives.

>> It just keeps unfolding. >> The bad decisions keep going with you wherever you go. You had a house in Colorado. You sold that. You had a sum of money and you've been pulling from that.

>> Yes. >> How much was it? And how much do you have left? >> Oh, I don't have any left. You know, like we're down to our $1,000 emergency

fund and we're slowly getting rid of >> How much was it originally? >> That credit card. >> Uh I think it was like 50.

>> Okay. So, here's we're we're here's where we're at. So, the $40,000 car, you just told me now you can't keep it.

>> Um, because of all too many priorities.

>> Yes. >> And as it relates, and I'll just give you a couple of thoughts. Even aside from the kitchen malfunctioning, I'm thinking, okay, 40,000 in this car.

Surely you have another vehicle that's worth something. And then you've got these kids. We don't want more than half of your income in vehicles going down in value. So, you're likely going to have to lower this. Um because you've got about 60 you've got about uh 70,000 that

you can spend on vehicles, right? So all

four of you having vehicles, somebody's going to have to shift down >> and it doesn't mean you should have 70,000 in vehicles. That's just the upper upper tip top limit if you really want it. And right now >> and my husband's cars paid off

car paid off. >> Uh it's a 2020 Chevy. Um, so that sounds

>> it was we got it in co, but we got it

during co

paid off. >> But the point is we're going to go down to the credit union. We're getting some sort of loan to get out of this $13,000 and then uh because you owe 40 now. So if you take a loan for 13, 13 is less than 40. That's a better deal for you.

>> Plus, we need some cash to get you a car to get from A to B right now. >> Yeah. So maybe try to get the loan for 18 and you spend 5,000 on a clunker.

That's what I would do. >> And then give that to one of those kids that are driving cuz they're inevitably going to make it even more of a clunker.

>> Indeed. >> And then you can upgrade with cash once you guys have it. And so that's up to you how you want to prioritize. Hey, we got to get a car for Junior. We need to get some cabinets in this kitchen.

>> Uh we got to clean up the other $6,000 of debt that you have left.

>> And if Junior has to wait a while for a car, by the way, he'll be he or she will be strong. Like it's okay. >> I shared my parents car a long time.

>> Yes. Yes, absolutely.

>> Well, it's two of them. They're twins.

>> That's okay. They can ride together over it. >> Get them a tandem bicycle. You know, that's that'll look cool going down the road as twins.

>> Oh gosh. >> Yeah. Either way, if they have to wait for a while while mom and dad get their life squared away, that is fine. They will survive that.

Um, >> absolutely. >> Now, absolutely. >> Now, the the kitchen, let's talk about finding the money. So, how much did you say?

50,000 or that's how much is it going to cost to just get this in working order? Yeah. >> Oh, the kitchen.

almost everything except countertops and cabinets. So, honestly, we priced >> I know, but we've priced in um we've we're looking at about 7,500 and then

done with the No, I'm not a bougie girl.

Okay, it sounds bougie, but I'm not.

>> Okay, good. So, um I >> I'm not looking to make it crazy.

Well, if you if you get rid of this car and you knock out the other 6K, you can cash flow that 7500 pretty quick and cash flow a couple of cheap cars as well. So, this is all very doable. We just need to start putting things in order. And I think this getting rid of this car is going to give you such relief >> and later on you can get you a nice $30,000 car with cash.

But right now, it's sinking you guys. >> Yeah. By I mean, put it to you like this. by the end of summer, you'll be driving, your kids will be driving, and you'll have your c your your if you go hard in the paint.

You'll have your kitchen done. And I think that's that's a great feeling. Uh the one thing I will kind of throw out there cuz it's hard selling a vehicle, it is hard on the ego. >> Mhm.

>> Okay.

up. >> Yeah. >> You were driving >> and you go from the nicest car you've ever driven to the worst car you've ever driven overnight. >> Absolutely. >> That's brutal. cuz people are like, "Oh, hey, what happened?" You know, they're at Chili's wondering what happened to Bob and Susan. They they solved their Escalade.

>> Yes, >> my butt's cold. >> But the good news is it doesn't matter what other people think. You guys are far beyond that at this point. If you're if you're Gazelle intense, that is one lesson that you have learned.

>> If you got real friends who have seen your kitchen, they'll they won't care about your beater car. I'll tell you that much. >> That's right. That's right.

But for anybody who's doing this journey, just be prepared to not care what other people think is what we're telling. >> It's a superpower. >> All right. All right.

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## 12. Before You Can Win With Money You Need To Make a PLAN | November 4, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union [music] studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside Jade Warshaw, who is just launching the pre-sale of her latest book. Oh, we'll talk more about that.

And it comes up just about on every phone call. [music] So, good stuff there. You ready to go, my friend?

>> Indeed. >> All right. She's fired up. Let's go to Marcus in Orlando, Florida. Marcus, how

can we help today?

>> Hey, guys. How are you guys doing?

>> Doing well, sir. What's going on?

Well, um I'm in a situation where I used

the you know those credit cards that have the promotional rate of 0% for 18

months to 24 months. Mhm.

>> So I did that I did that about 18 months

ago and um it's almost that time where

those high interests are going to kick in start kicking in again >> and >> yeah and I have about I I don't know if

I did my math right but I think I have around 40,000 or 50,000

>> in total debt but in the credit cards that have the 0% promotional period

right now is only only holds Um, uh, I

think it's 12,000. >> Okay. So, 12,000 is on the the really bad card.

>> Yeah. So, 12,000 is on the 0% right now, but it's about to expire, the promotional rate, >> and I have like a 10,000 on um

a personal loan that's like around 14% interest. M um and then I have other

um you know like the car I still owe 16,000 but um and then I have like a

medical debt that I put on a care credit

which is like 22%.

So, I know I can't transfer at all,

>> but I was my question is is it smart to,

you know, try to do like a big personal loan so I can consolidate majority or all of this debt or should I try to

leverage the 0% um promotional and just keep getting newer credit cards and and keep repeating the cycle every year and a half. >> Yeah. In theory, mathematically, I could see why you would say that because you're thinking, "Hey, I'm going to move it to a place where there's zero interest." But you've already told us that your behavior would not support that that decision, right? Because you

got a 0% and you had a certain amount of

time to pay it down before it shifts and you didn't do that, >> right? I Yeah, I couldn't do it because of reason. I don't know. Just um my

teamwork with my wife is not the best.

>> So, >> listen, there's always going to be a reason. >> There's always going to be something that pops up. I can tell you that right now. Um that's why I don't think this is good for you. I think for you, feeling that pain is a good thing because you're going to have to do this the oldfashioned way, which is listing these out smallest to largest. By the way, how much was the medical debt? Was that like five? How much is that?

>> The medical debt is a total of about

uh remaining is 14 plus

another 4,000. So about $18,000 is what's left. >> Okay. Um Okay. Yeah. 50. So yeah, you're

going to have to list these out smallest to largest. That's how we do it. And just tact tactically, you're putting minimum payments on everything. And the reason you're doing that is because you don't want anything to go into default. You don't want 1800 pay me calling you. But then all the extra money you're going to put towards the smallest. So tell us about what your income is and so we can figure out what your margin is.

>> Yeah. So I've been trying to do that, but I've been struggling to even get the

$1,000 emergency fund, but I'm hoping that by end of next month I I should

have that already. >> What's causing you to struggle with that? Oh, it's just um kind of like that bad

communication with with my wife. Um

>> yeah, but what does that look like when you say bad communication? What is it?

You say we're saving $1,000. She says h no and goes out and spends the money anyway. What what's happening?

>> So I tell her my goal is for us to save a th000 emergency fund before starting to attack these credit cards. Um and and

she'd be like, "Okay." But then as we're

going about our lives through the month and we run short on money, um I tell her

like we can't, you know, be spending and then something happens. Um

like I don't know, like maintain

Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus. I'm jumping in real quick. I'm not going to get in the way of the of you leading him, but >> Ken, I need you to go on and get in there. >> I got to speak to something.

This is about the second or third time in the call you said, "We have a communication issue." You don't have a communication issue. You have a plan issue. You guys don't have a plan. >> In other words, when you say to your wife, "Hey babe, I I'd like us to get to baby step one and save $1,000." She goes, "Okay, great." But there's no plan by which we're going to do it.

There's no change of behavior in order to meet the plan. >> There's no plan. So, I just want to quickly jump in and say you got to change your language because this is not semantics.

her is that we've got some want to but we don't have any how to.

>> So, I hand the ball back to my colleague. But that's the problem. So, you need to listen about how one goes about creating a plan and executing on the plan. It's not a communication issue. Stop saying that.

>> I agree. I think it's a it's more of a like Ken said, it's a plan issue and are you in agreement on how we're going to do this? >> Um, do you guys have a budget? It doesn't sound like it if you're running out of money. >> So, that's that's what I'm trying to what I was trying to say. Um it's just that so the plan that I had was okay here's this budget of how much we're allowed to spend. But um so that's why I

say this communication issue because when I say okay this is our budget.

>> Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. I'm going to tell you why. It's because the same way that you're grown and you wouldn't like if somebody came to you and said here's what you're going to do. You wouldn't like that very much would you?

>> Mhm. >> That's that's there's your problem. Cuz somewhere in that your wife is going, "I'm sorry, what?" Right? You're bring You're bringing her the plan. You're telling her what we can spend. You're telling her that we're saving $1,000.

You're telling her, "This is how we're going to do it." But I haven't heard where there's uh the two of you working

together to decide together. Here's what we think we need to do. Here's how we're going to do it. Here's what Do you see what I'm saying?

So, I think that's where the breakdown is. If you're feeling it as a communication issue, it's not a communication issue. a teamwork issue >> because you you you have counted out your teammate and said, >> "I'm just going to run with the ball and nobody wants to play like that." So that's I think that's what you've got to get to the bottom of. Um you still haven't told me what your income is every month.

>> Doesn't know.

>> Okay. >> That's my take-home pay. >> About We got to remove that word.

>> It's it's a little bit more like 60 thou I mean $6,000 and like $60.

>> Okay. And that's from both you and your wife. Does she work outside the home?

>> Um, her monthly income is about outside.

It's 1,600 or so.

>> 1600. Okay. Yeah. You guys need to sit down tonight. That's your homework. I don't think you really do have a budget.

Maybe you wrote something down once, but I don't think you have an every dollar budget. So, we're going to get you hooked up with that. And the conversation is you take her out. Take her out on the town and you start talking about the things that are important to you. A vision. Start with a vision. Start with a why and see if you guys can connect on that.

>> Here's the three. Can I jump in? >> Get it. >> You got to say where. That's the vision.

Vision is where we're going. Purpose is why we're going there. And mission is how we get there >> together. >> There it is. Three things, couples.

Where, why, how. Figure it out. Get on

the same page or you're never going to win this game.

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Okay, can I get real with a lot of you right now watching and listening and you're you're trying this stuff out.

You're trying like [music] the baby steps make sense. You get it.

But the reality is something's off. And

it's not the math. Like you're working the budget, but life is throwing curveballs at you. And not only is life throwing curveballs at you, it just gets you down. It's It's discouraging because you make a little bit of progress, Jade.

And then all of a sudden, you feel like you went backwards. You go, "Wait a second. I didn't go out and get a credit card. I I didn't go buy a car. We can get some loan." >> Okay. I know there's a lot of people that are going, "Okay, Ken, you you got me." All right. Now, here's the deal.

you haven't failed. But you got to realize that this money game and the way we teach it, you can win, but it's not all math. What am I talking about? In other words, there's real life emotions. You are a human being who's trying really hard to

be disciplined and this is really hard to dig out of this stuff.

>> Absolutely. >> And uh Jade knows this. I mean, my our debtfree journey nowhere near uh the

length and the the amount that Jade and Sam paid off. And it's why I'm excited, by the way, uh about our new book. It's titled What No One Tells You About Money. Well, what is it, Jade, that No, that's a really fun title.

[laughter] Okay, you hooked me. >> Nobody tells >> what what are we not telling people? >> Nobody tells you that the things that we're asking you to do, which is make changes with your money. Uh it's very emotional.

It's not easy. It's emotional to listen to this podcast and now you got to go home and and get your spouse in the same place that you're on and it's conversation and argument and talk after talk. That is an emotional process, right? It's emotional when we say, "Hey, you've got a ton of debt.

You know what you're not going to be doing? Going to a restaurant, getting your nails done, buying anything new, like that. That hurts our feelings. That makes us sad.

It's tough when somebody calls in and we say, "I'm sorry, your mortgage is too big a piece of your income.

Half of what we're facing, Ken, is emotions. And that's why this book is only about that. That's right. Not numbers. The very first Ramsay book, some of you been with us a while going, why this money book? I'll tell you very simply, no other Ramsay money book has ever taken on with an honest, in-depth look at the emotional side of money so that you know what you're going to face.

For those of you who are facing it, she's going to hit it right there on the bullseye and you go, "Oh, I'm not alone.

I'm not crazy. And more importantly, I can get my emotions in check and win with money. So that's why we think this book is so powerful. What no one tells you about money is now available to pre-order. Okay. And you can get it now for the best price, $24.99. And you're also going to get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audio book. Do you sing in this at all?

>> No. But I will say this shame. I'll be honest. >> I will say this. >> A little disappointed. >> Well, I'll say this. All of the chapters or all of the sections are song titles.

So it's kind of a little game there.

But more so than that, even if you're like, "Hey, I don't really Jade care about the content of the book." If you just want tea on me and Sam, it is the whole book is story driven.

>> So, you're going to get story after crazy story of >> Although, there needs to be an a there needs to be a bonus Ramsay episode for me and Stacy to talk about what we learned about you and Sam at a dinner with you. These are two of the most interesting people you've ever met in your life. That's all I can say. But back to the book.

You get so many things including the enhanced audiobook, early access to the ebook. Uh you get a an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Warshaw, and also uh a three-week online book club. Access to that with live Q&A.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

And if you are listening, you got to see this book cover. Uh I talked about this the other day. Uh, guns out, folks. Jade

has been hitting the gym and the shoulders are in full effect here. I mean, unbelievable. To the to the point that I feel like I have to have my next book cover, I got to wear a sleeveless shirt and really rock the triceps.

>> The point was intimidate you into getting your money. >> I'm already in the gym. No, but [laughter] nobody's noticing. They're just like, "Wow, look at her arms." So, I'm just getting that out of the way, folks. She looks fantastic on the cover, but a lot of fun. It's a great book. Go get it now. ramiesolutions.com/store.

Jackson joins us now in Greenville, South Carolina. Jackson, how can we help today?

>> Hey, I'm calling today just with a few questions as far as I'm 20 years old and I've gotten into a bunch of debt and I'm

having a fun. You know, when I was younger, I didn't have a lot of things I wanted and now growing up and getting some money in my pocket. I've been buying a couple of things that I wanted >> and I'm currently $52,000 roughly in debt. Now, is the 52 all with these

toys?

>> Um, well, one of them's my truck.

>> Okay. >> So, that's, you know, my way to get to work. >> How much do you owe on the truck?

>> Uh, it's roughly 13,000 on the truck.

>> What What's it worth? >> Um, >> um, I don't know exactly what the truck's worth. There's a few cosmetic things I need to fix on it from just using it over the years and, um, you know, towing things and doing other stuff with it, >> but I'm sure I could probably get close to that out of it. What's your monthly payment on that?

>> Um, it's $390 a month.

>> Okay. Well, I'm just I'm pulling the facts here so Jaden and I can weigh in.

What other debt do you have? So, that's 13 for a truck. What What other debt?

List them out. >> So, the big one here is is my side by side. It's $31,000 roughly in debt.

>> 31 on the side by side. Oh, boy.

>> Yes, sir. And then um about eight and a half thousand uh on a boat.

>> A boat. Man, you are. Do you have a woman in your life?

>> No, sir. I'm single. I'm 20 years old.

>> Yeah, baby. That's what I thought. 20-year-old single dude who's got all this income. He thinks and he goes out and buys a side by side and a boat. I mean, you don't have that much time. >> Where do you live? Do you have a house to hold all this in a garage at the very least? >> Uh, we've built we've built a house behind my parents on our property.

Yeah. Who's we?

>> So, me and my father built this house.

We built it um about two years ago,

three years ago, and um we built it behind their house on their property.

>> Okay. >> And I stay here and I help out with um a lot of stuff that they need, you know. >> So, you are you paying any kind of rent at all?

>> Uh yes, sir. I pay uh around $300 to $400 a month on rent.

>> Okay. >> Oh, boy. >> But you don't you don't own that?

>> No. >> Your dad owns it? Yeah. >> Well, it it will be mine um eventually.

I mean, we built it. It's It's not like we don't have to pay for it. Like, >> are you are you an only child?

>> No, sir. I'm the youngest of three.

>> So, is your dad >> It was either that. It was either the only child or the youngest. This is all starting to check out for me.

>> Got it. Um, >> yeah. >> So, let me start with the idea that your

current situation, it's going to be temporary. Like, you living in this little offshoot of your parents house, paying $300 a rent. Well, it should be temporary. >> I agree.

I wonder if it will be >> because the minute he he meets a fly young lady, a a pretty young thing. He's gonna be thinking, "Okay, you know, I want to get married one day. I'm going to move off of this site." Like, so I just want to put that picture in your head that where you're at now is not going to be it forever.

>> Fair enough. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, we have limited time with you.

>> Another reason I called. >> What's your question? What's the core question? So, so my question is and going kind of in what she says, I want to get out of debt, but I do not want to get rid of anything.

Um, because and the reason I want to get out of that is like she said, if I marry a young lady that wants to, you know, eventually. >> All right. Go ahead, Jade.

>> Well, I mean, you've got two choices. What's your income?

>> Um, so I make roughly 60,000 a year.

That's without working overtime. And usually I work a good bit of overtime.

>> So, here's the problem. Usually I I might find a way and say, "Hey, if you could, you know, work extra and pay all this stuff off, like, keep it." But in your case, you have too much money tied up in things with motors, and those things tend to go down in value, as you're probably already seeing. You're you're right side up in your truck so far, but you can probably see your side by side going down. You might even see that your boat's going down.

You make 60 and you got $52,000 of debt.

too much. So, if I were you, I'd probably hang on to the truck since you only owe 13 on it. And the rest of it, I'd say bye-bye.

>> Oh, [laughter] bye. Bye. Bye. >> Oh, very nice. I don't even know what a side by side is. >> I don't either, but I know it's something that you drive on >> I'm going to look it up >> on the on the prairie in on land.

>> So, there you >> Okay. >> Oh, it's a golf cart.

>> Okay, that's different.

>> Okay. So, >> yeah, you definitely don't need an off-road golf cart. >> No, I mean, you must let me put it like this. You must sell the side by side.

That's got to go today. What's it worth?

>> Um, so right now as it sits, it's probably worth around 25 to 26,000.

>> Yeah, got to sell that today. And what I would do, you do have some time. Save up the difference. Uh, so that you can break even on it and sell it. And then, yeah, I'd probably keep the truck. I don't think you're going to get anything much cheaper than that. And you're even on it. I think I I'm okay with that. But you got to get rid of the boat. You're 20 years old. You don't need a boat.

Rent a boat. Ah, [sighs] that's tough.

Jade, I might let him pay off the boat.

Get rid of the side by side. Come on, man. >> Well, he's definitely got to get rid of side by side. >> Who needs an off-road golf cart?

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>> [music] >> All right, Joshua is up in Denver, Colorado. Joshua, how can we help today?

>> How you doing today, sir? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I was in a

really, really bad car accident and at

the end of June, um, I work for Loheed Martin, so luckily I I get to at least

be on disability, but

we're running out of money massively fast. And I'm just horrified that I'm going to let my family down and that I'm going to uh just make problems for us that we're

not going to be able to overcome. Okay.

And I I not really sure what to do.

>> All right. Well, we're going to walk this thing through with you. Okay. First of all, so sorry that you've gone through this. How are you doing physically?

>> Um well, I I was not breathing

unconscious and bleeding out when they put me on the flight for life. They told my mother and my fiance that I would would be lucky if I was a vegetable. Um,

>> and then I also had some other pretty serious complications a couple months later. I almost died twice in the last 5 months. >> Oh my gosh. >> Gosh. >> What are you >> So, how are you now?

>> I'm have a surgery tomorrow. My left arm doesn't really work. I definitely got some unfortunately significant brain damage from it. >> Okay. >> Um. >> Wow. But like I I can't be anything but grateful. Like the Lord has done more than enough to save me and I like I I'm in debt that I could never repay to him.

>> Awesome. >> So I I guess I'm doing okay.

>> Okay. So have you did you get married or are you still planning to marry the fiance?

>> Uh I actually had set up a camping trip

for both of our families so I could ask her father to actually marry her for

officially um right before the crash.

And then the crash happened. So, I I'm trying to figure out how to ask her father to marry her, but yeah, I absolutely intend to marry this woman. She's she's absolutely the best one that's ever happened to me. >> Okay. All right. And then, cuz the reason I asked that question, you said you're worried about letting your family down, but as it stands right now, the only person you're responsible for is you. Correct.

>> I also have my daughter. Um I was She's not my biological daughter. I but I have full custody of her and she she is my daughter. She's my baby girl. >> Totally get it. How old is she?

She is about to turn 15. Um

>> Okay. And do you two live Do you two live together?

Yes, >> sir. [clears throat] >> Do you own a home or are you renting?

>> Um my my mother actually owns the home

that we are renting currently.

>> Okay, that's that's really good news right now. And then um how long is there a limit on your disability payments from Lheed Martin or from insurance, whatever your situation?

I I I don't I don't really know how that works. I'm on short-term disability. My doctor was saying I need to transfer to long-term because he doesn't expect me to recover for a while cuz >> Okay. >> There's there's a lot. >> Yeah. >> And so, what income what do you have right now? We're we're going to start walking through some numbers. What income are you receiving right now?

They have intermittently provided me like $615 per week, but they denied my claim while I was in the ICU and I I was in a coma.

So, I I couldn't really do much about it. >> No. >> And it it really set a lot of things back. So, like they didn't do any back pay on it or anything. So, there was a big hole in finances. Like, I'm I'm

pretty much out of money. I think I have $1,000 left. It's not even a thousand.

>> When you say they denied it, was that when you first when you were first trying to collect it, >> they denied it and now and now they're paying it out or have they stopped paying it out now?

>> So they they have to they like are every

month they are going and like reasserting that I'm still messed up, I guess. So >> it's currently going back through that whole process. So, they're going to reach out to my litany of doctors at this point. >> Uh-huh. >> Um, >> but so you're currently receiving nothing. Is that what you're saying? You're currently receiving nothing.

>> Say it again.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Um, okay. And I'm I'm guessing you have no savings, no nothing.

>> Not anymore. >> Okay. Um,

I was going to say earlier that possibly there was an elimination period that maybe that's why in the beginning they were denying you, waiting for that period to to to go by before they started making these payouts out. I think the only thing How How long has it been since the wreck? You said June or July? >> It was June 30th. So, it's been almost five months exactly. >> H Yeah. Uh but they if they were paying

you at first and then they've every month you said they stop and make sure that you're still fit for el for eligibility basically. >> And who is they? Is it the is it the insurance that you had through Lockheed Martin?

>> It's Sedwick.

>> Okay. But it's through >> it's Sedwick and New York Life. And I have to ver or not verify but do everything through both companies. And it >> Do you have anybody at Lockheed Martin?

It's essentially your advocate in HR that's helping with this >> kind of um it it's really hard like cuz

HR the HR lady that I have been in

contact with she can't really do much I it all goes through Sedwick to be kind of powerless >> and what's that process? Is it just you submitting a letter from your doctors?

What is it that they're asking for that you're not able to provide? to they have

to reach out to all my different doctors and surgeons and verify all of the different um portions of the claim, I guess.

>> I don't I don't really understand what they're doing, but yeah. >> Do you have someone like your mom uh a friend who's also uh helping you with this and being a bulldog on insurance?

>> Um, not really.

>> That's that's what you need. mom is helping me as much as she can and my fiance is helping me as much as she can, but we're all kind of illiterate on this stuff. So, it it's not >> well, >> not very helpful. >> And and and here's the problem.

Neither one of us are insurance experts. And so, the only way we can guide you today uh on this insurance stuff is is tell you what we would do. And if it were if I was in your shoes, >> um I've got a fiance who loves me. I got a mom who loves me.

And it's like they may be illiterate, but let's become as literate as possible, but let's go find an advocate.

either going to become a champion for you or they learn pretty quickly. I'm going to hear from these people 17 times a day. Uh because unfortunately we are in a and if this doesn't piss you folks off about our healthcare insurance, I'm I'm holding myself back >> because I wish I could get every Republican and every Democrat in Congress in this studio right now to listen to this young man because this is the biggest bunch of crap that I have ever heard in my entire life. For him to be going through this, Jade, I understand.

>> Yeah. And we got we got to go verify with doctors all the time. Um this is just what's what's wrong with uh >> and by the way, I'm just going to say this while I'm on it. We want to know why people get angry in this country and do dumb things.

This is why. And I'm just going to leave that there. This is ridiculous.

that that that's the only thing I'm thinking might be happening, which is why they might be asking for a whole new set of evidence that you're still >> um >> But this a full-time job, unfortunately.

This is a full time I spoke with at Cedric last said that short-term disability through them will go for up to 12 months. >> Oh, really? Okay. >> Well, then they need to pay. They need to pay on time. >> True. That is >> Yeah, it could if it it might be 6 to 12 months, right? And so at the six-month period, they might be saying, "Okay, we're re-evaluating." I really think uh

to Ken's point, things like this are a full-time job and it's something that when you call, you record the conversation, you take notes on the conversation, you get the lady's number, so every time you call, you're talking to the same lady. Do you see what I'm saying? You don't have the ability to do that right now. So, your fiance is going to have to step up big time and help you with this and advocate for you because >> like you said, I mean, you're dealing with brain damage.

You're dealing with a surgery tomorrow. It's going to be hard for you. Now, let's talk about your four walls because that's the most important thing. Luckily, you're renting from your mom.

Let her know what's going on [music] and no one's going to take your place from you, right? So, you've got security there.

transportation. It doesn't sound like you're going anywhere unless somebody's driving you. So, I think that you're okay. It sounds like you're surrounded by people who love and care about you, and you're going to have to lean on them during this time. You're not able to go out and work like you once were, and you're up against some real challenges.

And in in this case, sometimes people are the only thing uh that are there to help you in times like this.

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>> [music]

>> Let's go to Detroit next to where Kim is waiting on us. Kim, how can we help today? >> Hi. Um, I am expecting a sixth baby

soon. >> Whoa. Whoa.

>> Wait a minute. >> Did you say sixth as in the number six?

>> That's the one.

Kim. >> Wow, >> you are a hero. >> I know. That's right. >> I am >> Wonder Woman.

>> Um, >> what's going to be the uh age range?

>> We have an almost 12-year-old down to a

one-year-old.

>> My holy moly. >> Would you like me to get on the phone with your husband and tell him to leave you alone? [laughter] >> I mean, if you wouldn't mind, that'd be lovely.

>> Tell him to rewind the show today. Hey pal, leave her alone. She needs a break.

[laughter] >> Well, in his defense, he was gearing up to get a vasectomy and we just didn't get that far. So, >> you love each other. What can you say? >> Have we made that appointment, though? [laughter] Is that on the books?

>> Oh, I wish. I wish. I don't know what he's doing. So, >> Kim, you're a good one. >> You are a good lady. All right. I'm sorry. I'm having a little fun here. I always represent the American people. I say what they're thinking. Uh, okay. How can we help today?

>> Right. So, um, two of my biggest concerns right now is the fact that we lease a car through my husband's work, and we only have the one car, and it is a seven-seater, so not going to fit six kids. Um, my other issue is the fact that we're essentially in a two-bedroom house and running out of space very quickly. >> You think you're in a two-bedroom house?

>> Yeah. Well, my husband, he works from home and he So, he uses one of the pseudo bedrooms as an office. So, my thought is we can plunk him as quickly as possible into the basement where we anticipate getting at least two bedrooms put up and his office built down there.

Um, but there's a lot of work that has to get done to the basement before like rooms and things can be added down there. >> How many square foot feet is this place?

>> It's only 1,400. It's not a lot. It It's

manageable. >> Do we have Okay, hold on. Slow down. Do we have the money >> to be able to make these Okay, so we have I thought that was the case. So, here's the deal. There is no expansion of the house for him. He's going to a place called a coffee shop.

>> What [laughter] What kind of work does he do and what does he earn?

>> So, he we he makes about 75 a year. Um

and the problem is like sometimes he's on the phones and stuff like that. So, like he has to be in like a quiet secluded area. Um >> there's all kinds of sidewalk is it?

>> There's the back alley service for for

Volkswagen. So >> Oh, what service?

>> It's like a customer service >> for Volkswagen. Okay.

>> Um how long's you been doing that?

>> Uh for about six or so years now.

>> Okay. And do you do any work other than working from the home? Do you do anything outside to get a check?

>> How could you? >> So I don't think so. I'm just asking. I fill as much space as I can. Um, when I when my husband's not working, I'm walking dogs. I'm grooming dogs. We We do boarding at the house just to add some extra income. >> You do boarding at the house where there's no bedrooms [laughter] for the children to sleep. >> I I have a great idea. I have a great idea for you guys to make more money.

You guys need to be on the phone with some reality show producer because I feel like I feel like your life is a reality show waiting to happen.

>> Oh man, >> I told my husband we would make a really great sitcom. I know you would. Six kids and 60 dogs. Yeah, >> I'm exhausted already just talking, >> man. Okay. Well, I like your hustle spirit. Like I I like the fact that you're like, "Hey, I'm going to get money doing what I can. I love pets, so invite them over." >> Uh what do you I mean, on a good month, what do you make from your side hustling? >> Um so from grooming, I do about 2,000.

Uh with uh boarding, I do about a

thousand. Walks I are harder for me just because it's more of me out of the house. So, um, usually it's like maybe a couple hundred bucks a month or something like that. So, >> you're pregnant with your six.

>> Tired. >> Yes. Stop walking [laughter] the dogs.

Okay. So, what is the core question you called with today? Cuz now we have a pretty good idea what's going on. >> I'm I'm trying to systematically I feel like the car is going to be the biggest thing as far as what we need to do first.

But, I mean, I looked at places that could offer us a car that's going to fit everyone.

there's like 8,000 on one card that my

husband has that went to collections we have another 5,000 that went to collections that he has. And then um >> And what was this money spent on? Is this just you guys surviving?

>> No, it was that my husband spent it on garbage. >> On what? On what? >> On garbage. >> Okay. Yeah. Because Hold on. I want to pause for a second here. >> Okay. You guys are making enough money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Between his 75 and let's call it your 24

>> that you guys don't need to be spending money on credit cards. It's not like you need that money to live. You guys are just being ridiculously careless.

>> Yeah. And truthfully, you don't I mean, Ken is right. You're doing all right, but you don't have a lot of margin for error here. I just kind of calculated. So, what's he bringing home? Like 4,800 a month. >> Yeah. Give or take. Yeah. >> Okay. And yours is 2. So, you're 6,800 a month, which doesn't sound bad, but you got there's se there's eight of you guys, so that that goes fast. Um, what are you paying? What do you pay for uh mortgage?

>> 1450. Okay, that's fine. Um, and do you

have like an actual budget? Could you tell me today like here's the margin at the end of every month that we have?

>> We have like about $2,000 margin after

all of like the necessities.

>> Great. Great. So, the key to this um is

you're going to have to save up to get something because you already know that debt's the problem, right? So, you can't turn around and go into debt on another vehicle. How often are all of you piling

in the car to all go to the same place?

>> So, because I'm predominantly a stay-at-home mom, I'm the chauffeur. So, like the kids are with me a good chunk of the day except the older two who are in school. >> Um, but because it's also our only car, if we go see family, if we go do anything, we're taking everybody.

>> Well, guess what? Guess what we're not doing? We're not going to see anybody.

We aren't going to go do anything until we get this thing right sized. >> Yeah, I think so. Everybody's coming to you. My goodness. I think you got a good case to make. >> I think so, too. >> Now, this lease, when is it up?

>> I mean, it's up any minute. Um, so like

we could return it today and they'd be happy with us. But the only problem is though, right now, we're paying 2.75 a month on the car, okay? Which is all fine and well. That includes insurance, tags every year, all of it. um and

they're not no longer making um the car that we have with the three row seats.

So, we can't get that same deal if we return it and get another car. We'd be looking at paying closer to 450 on the next lease. >> Understood. How how how cuz here's the biggest problem is this and and I know it's easy to focus on like the the micro problems like the lease. The biggest problem is you've had $2,000 of margin for the last five, six years that he's been working on Volkswagen, but you don't have any money saved.

>> So, I can tell you what happened with that. [laughter] >> Well, um, Door Dash.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. My It doesn't matter at this point. >> That is the point is that that money has gone to things that are not paying off debt, not saving up for the future. So, today, this is the thing that's on fire.

You guys have got to save up. Start saving that money. And in the meantime, if you can extend this car, if that's possible, I would say do it because you got to have something to drive and you don't have any you don't have any money.

So, that would be my first thing is see what you can save up. What can what can $8,000 get you? What can $7,000 get you?

And you're going to have a beater for a while after you get out of this lease because that's what you can afford.

>> Yeah. Does your husband is he mechanical by any chance?

>> Minorly. Yeah. >> Yeah, I get it. Me, too. I can barely put gas in a car. Um, but here's I'm gonna get creative if I'm you, right?

You know what I'm doing? I'm finding somebody in their local community, their church, who's like really good at working on Chevys or Fords, and they live in the Detroit area, and I'm going to go find me an old Suburban, you know,

something in the early 2000s. No, seriously, that's got that's got enough enough seats and we're going to we're going we're going to go get a $5,000 Suburban and find a good mechanic who going to rip us off, who will give us a deal. My point is, you have to get creative and innovative when you in this situation. And people will feel for it if you go, "Hey, we've been dumb.

We've got some debt we're paying off. We got a sick kid on the way. Husband's going to go get snipped soon. We're solving that problem.

We need we need this. We need" and we share the problem. And we go to the local community, whatever it is, and we say, "Help us." And >> you have a good church home. Let them put the word out.

Somebody make excuses and go, "Well, we got to go this." And I know you're not, but I got to tell you, I'd have hubs watch this back on YouTube. And I'm not knocking you, my friend.

>> You must. >> You're the one that went out and did this on credit cards. Now you need to go out and not sleep and work and pay this off. Go [music] get yourself a car. My goodness. Step up. You got six kids.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio [music] alongside the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us. The phone number [music] for you to jump in isle825-55225LE88255225.

Shakira is joining us now in Washington DC. Shakira, how can we help?

>> Hi, how are you both?

>> We're having a blast today. What's going on with you?

>> So, um me and my husband, we recently got married uh back in June of this year

and we both had a little bit of credit card um debt like have that has been accumulated. We I recently read um the

total money makeover and it's been something that we've been speaking about doing. Uh we already have our thousand dollars saved up and we've kind of figured out we're we're doing the snowball uh right now with all of our all of my husband's debts and all all together just my husband's we have around 39,000 in debt. But the the next thing that's not including our our cars.

So the next thing that we want to tackle um as we do the snowball is looking at

our cars. He currently owes around 17,000 on his car and I owe about 6,000

on my car. Uh car payments is all for

for the both of us it's about $1,000.

Um, and so we're just at like a crossroads as far as what we want to do moving forward. if it's get just sell

our cars, get um some money to pay off the debt and then just kind of get rid of all of our debt within like the next hopefully two years and or if we should

just um because he he I had I had mentioned to him to um just turn in the

cars, get what we can, and then buy something that doesn't include a payment, but he kind of doesn't want to let go of his car. It's something that he has dreamed of having for a very long time. Um, >> when you say turn in the cars, what do you mean by that? Do you mean just take whatever the dealer will give you for them or are you talking about trying to like repo these?

>> No, no, no. Take whatever the dealer will give um to give us for them and then buy another car that without a payment. >> So, what if you just if you're willing to sell the cars, why not private sale them so that you can get more from the sale? >> Yeah. >> And do it right.

That's that's something that we we've we've kind of we've kind of mentioned, but where he's at is where he doesn't want to get rid of it is he has um brought up the point of refinancing his car. >> No, no, no, no. Okay, let's let's let's back up. Let's back up. Okay. Uh first of all, if you read Tony Total Money Makeover, you may have not seen it. It's totally okay. But I want you to start

talking about your debt, not his debt, my debt. You guys just got married. I know it's new. Congratulations, by the way. But but this is now we

>> this is not his debt. So, I just want to mention that. Um it's very important that you guys are unified on this. It's our debt. Now, just a point of clarification. I got the money on the cars. You got 6K left on your car. He's got 17K on his. But you said I thought

that in addition to the cars, we have 39,000. You said his. I'm now saying we >> I thought she said 139.

>> No. No. How much is 39?

>> No. So his So all of our our debt

combined is around 39.

>> Okay. That includes the cars >> that went in. I'm sorry.

>> That includes the cars.

>> Without the cars. That's just credit card debt. [laughter] >> So I was right. So So let Hey, THIS IS

SHOCKING. YOU GOT ONE MALE TALKING, two females, and I'm the only one that's clear on THE NUMBERS. THIS IS WRITE THIS DOWN, AMERICA. THIS IS SHOCKING.

>> I'M TRYING TO FOLLOW YOU.

THE PATH of breadcrumbs here.

>> So, we've got 39,000 in addition to

6,000 car, 17,000 car. Is that true or false? >> True. >> All right. I knew it. All right. Now, what is the 39? I need you to break it down for us. >> Credit cards. >> I know, but I still want to hear the numbers. So, walk us through it.

Smallest to largest.

>> Yes, sir. So, we have a personal loan that has $10,000 on it. We have another card that has uh 12,000. another that

has 11, uh, another that has 1,000, and

then the rest are just kind of 800, 500,

400. >> Okay. And what is your combined income, please? >> Um, my husband makes around 57,000 and I

am going to be getting a new job soon.

Um, because in my current role, I don't

make enough at all. I make around uh around I want to say 12,000 a year.

>> Okay. What is that? That's not even a job.

>> Yes. It's almost it's it's full-time, but it's part-time uh pay. [laughter]

>> Why are you do Why >> You are the sweetest person I've ever met in my entire life. >> Why would you do that to yourself when there's full-time jobs with full-time pay that you could get? >> Well, she is working on that, so that's good. >> Yes. >> What will you make? Do you have any idea? She said she's about to get a new job. We need to quickly move through this. What do you think you're going to make? Do you have an actual job on the horizon?

Um, I've been applying and while I do that, I sometimes uh do a little teaching on the side with like subbing and things like that and that can earn me about a paycheck of about like $1,000. >> Do you have any kids? >> Um, no sir.

>> Okay. Can I just share something with you, Shakira? >> You need to be working. You need to quit this full-time job that has part-time pay.

That's about the most ludicrous thing I've heard all week. And I I'm a real fan of yours, so I'm not picking on you, but I hope you hear how really silly that sounds. So, you need to go get you a full-time job somewhere. I don't care if it's at Target or Walmart or wherever.

And you need to be working another job because we have two potential incomes, no kids, and we can knock this debt out. Okay. This is all possible. Okay.

Take it away. What do they do next?

>> Well, I I am wondering about the $17,000 car. What's it worth?

Um, it's worth around um I want to say 23,000. My husband said it's a it's a 2022 Ford Bronco. And that's his that's his baby. >> No, it's not his baby. >> It's actually a piece of crap. Have you seen the test ratings on this? It really is. >> No, I got to go back to the It's his baby because there's actual real people at home who are struggling financially.

Y'all, you should be his baby. Do you see what I'm saying? [laughter] Put Make sure he listens to this this call, right? He needs to sell it because there's $5,000 in equity there that you guys need today.

>> Do you see what I'm saying? >> And not to mention, what's the payment on that?

>> Uh, it's around uh I want to say like six um 6.90.

>> Okay. So, now we just found, let's round it up for fun. Now, we just found 8,000

plus dollars. Yeah.

>> In a raise. So he could essentially if he was really if he's really down to get

this cleaned up, he could essentially take that $56,000 from selling this car. You guys could quickly save up another thousand or so with it. He's driving a $7,000 beater and now you've just repocketed almost $700 a month. >> Yeah. >> What about that? >> And you're paying off uh those three small credit cards in three months minimum just with that payment. But now that you're working >> harder than you've ever worked before, you're busier than a one-armed wallpaper hanger. That's how busy you are.

>> That That's busy. >> Think about that poor guy trying to hang wallpaper with one arm. That's a lot of work. Focused. >> All right. That's focused. So like this is you guys can knock this out. I'd keep your $6,000 car because that's that's reachable pretty quick and you pay that off. So he's got a $5,000 car >> and you've got a $6,000 car that we're going to pay off. This is all doable, but you guys got to get super serious.

Sacrifice. Sacrifice is the name of the game. You're not getting out of this without sacrifice. There's no getting around it. That is part and parcel to this whole debt-free deal. Can't get around it. There's no easy button. >> Yeah. But no more, Shakira. A full-time job on part-time pay. What are we

talking about here? >> You got to respect your your time more than that. >> Oh my gosh.

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[music]

Hey folks, if the show is helping you out, we'd love for you to help us out.

There's no better promotion in the world than real people who say, "Hey, uh, I'm listening. I'm watching this." So, a share, a like, and a subscribe uh, on whatever platform uh, that you're enjoying the show. We would appreciate it so very much. Thank you. Britney is up next in Portland, Oregon. Britney, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. So, um I have been working at

a company for um about five years now.

And as part of my compensation, I receive equity grants every year uh with a 4-year vesting schedule. And I have basically just been letting those shares vest and then they move into my brokerage where I've just been holding on to them. Uh unfortunately, over the last few years, the stock has uh essentially uh tanked. Um, it's down 60%

from its all-time high, which uh occurred in November of 2021.

And as a long-term investor, I don't need the money. Um, but I've been slowly watching, uh, the value of that position decline and decline. And I feel like I'm at a point now where I'm wondering, you know, should I I cut my losses and uh, sell out of what's vested and move that money into, you know, either a broader index fund or should I try to see it through? Uh right now the total uh value of the position is around $150,000

uh which is about a third of my overall brokerage account.

>> Yeah. And uh the total the average loss

on on that is about 30%. So it's painful. It's emotional and I can't make an unemotional decision about it. So when you guys can give me some unemotional advice. >> Yeah. So first question I have is I thought I heard you say you're a long-term investor and so this is all gravy for you. this company stock.

You're doing your own investing and so you know you're going to be fine long term. Correct. Did I hear that? >> Yeah. That's my hope. That's that's the goal. Yes. >> All right. Then the next question that I would have and I'm I'm answering this as if I were you. So I have no emotion in this. So I'm going to Okay. What would I do? All right. So what would I do is I would say what what do I know? And let's

not look at opinion pieces in the media, but to the best of our ability, let's look at what the company's saying. Let's look at what we can learn from insiders in the building. There's a reason why that stock has gone down. True or false?

>> True. >> Might be a few big reasons. Is there do you know what the reasons are?

>> I I have I have some suspicions. I have some some solid leads, some solid hunches. Um and I you know uh we we

moved away from our core competencies started investing in things outside of our main space. Um we've had a CEO transition. New CEO has been in place for about a year. >> And what pause? So what his new CEO said

about it because the board brought him in to fix this problem primarily. I know

that without knowing what this company is or what they do. I know that. So what is he saying publicly? What is the board saying because you can go look this stuff up. That's public information. So what are they saying? >> Yeah. Uh you know we have a turf round plan in place. I mean the expectation is we're going to continue to see softness both on topline and bottom line for at least another year. But the expectation is that by fall of 2026, our new product

should be uh in market and there's a lot of optimism around that new product. I think the biggest question continues to be around tariffs. We're incredibly susceptible to tariffs. >> Exactly.

>> Exactly. >> All of this smells very good to me.

>> I don't I don't have any suspicion about this at all. I think this is I think this is a hold position for you.

>> I disagree. I think I disagree. Tell tell us why. I'm actually intrigued to hear why you would disagree with that.

Very sensible position.

>> I'm I'm I have two sides of it. So, it's

possible that >> So, this is I mean, this is not your money. It's not like you're investing in this stock. This is stock that they're giving to you. How quickly after it I

mean, how quickly can you move it over to something else? How quickly could you move it to an index fund once you've received it? How long does it take for it to vest? >> Um, so it's a four-year vesting schedule, 25% per year. Um, and then like I said, I have 150K that's fully vested just kind of sitting in the stock. I can move out of that as quickly as tomorrow.

>> I mean, if you wanted to sit on what's currently there, I it wouldn't bother me. But up moving forward, what I would do is the moment it vests, I'd move it to an index fund because or I'd move it elsewhere because I don't want money invested in single stocks, especially in

a company that's very soft right now. I I just would never tell somebody to invest their money there. Therefore, I also wouldn't advise somebody to necessarily investing her money. >> I understand it, but it's the same principle. I wouldn't necessarily advise somebody to leave their money there.

Now, that's why I said if you want to keep the 150 there for now and see if it regains, but going forward, I would move. >> Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. >> Do you see what I'm saying? So, I >> Yeah, I was just talking about the what what I was addressing.

>> I'm not increasing my losses going forward. >> That's fair. And I don't disagree with Jade on that.

then you can move it that's that's all I'm saying and that's a unique situation this is such a unique call in that situation I'd probably wait and see if the company can turn things around uh for that reason. But I also wouldn't have the first problem if you said I'm out. >> I was going to say if I were in your shoes, I don't think there's any problem with you doing what Ken said or doing what I suggested. If I were in your shoes, I would probably move it cuz I'd be like, I just don't want it in single stocks and I've already taken a loss.

I've already taken a hit. I'd rather this be diversified. That's just what I would do in order for you to stomach it is why I said what I said which is hey leave what's there but going forward make sure you quickly move you know as soon as it vests >> y >> I'm just trying to this is an emotional thing Ken you know >> it is >> I was just trying to work through the emotional side of it that's all >> and that's why again the only reason I said what I said is because her emotion is where it is and so it's like you're not relying on that money.

>> Yeah. This is this is what I would call found money. And I'd go, if you're emotional about it, ride the roller coaster a little bit longer. See if they get it back up.

>> And that's so funny because I'm the exact opposite. I'm like, it's not your money. So, there's really no reason to be emotional. I just move it and go whatever.

It's a I have $150,000. How do I want to invest this? That's the way I think about it. >> You play with house money.

>> It's house money. >> So, I'm a little bit more aggressive with house. >> So, we're betting. I'm >> not bet.

Yes, she is. In this case, she is she's going if she holds Yeah. and doesn't move it. She is betting that the CEO and the new leadership and the analysis could end up winning.

>> I wouldn't take that bet. I wouldn't take it.

It is. >> She got two pieces of advice.

>> I know. >> You got two pieces of advice, Britney.

>> What are you going to do, Britney? You tell us. [laughter] >> What's the word? >> Well, I I think the good news is that it doesn't sound like there's a wrong decision here. You know, there's not clear something that I'm doing wrong.

And so, you know, as an employee of the company, I think I'm going to try to be a little loyal, have faith, have optimism. I'm going to hold I do I do believe in the company. I do believe we're in a rebound. We always have in the past. Um so I'm going to pull the audience.

>> Just don't forget going forward that it's a single stock. Just don't forget that going forward. >> All right. Now, just for fun, we got probably 30 40 people in the lobby.

>> Uh lobby, raise your hands if you would go ahead and get out of the stock and cash out. Raise your hand.

>> My guy right there. >> One guy. >> One one loyal one loyal guy.

>> Now, let's see how this one goes. If you would hold a little bit and wait at least a year, the Ken position, raise your hand. Oh, it's overwhelming.

>> Listen, dollar betters are risky

business. >> It's rare that I'm right. And so, I'm going to soak in this one. >> So, laugh it up, Ken.

>> I tell you what, uh, I've been married 27 years. I have three teenagers. I'm never right. You know what I mean, people? Thank you very much. There's one guy that's giving me a polite golf clap.

[laughter] Uh, no. But in all seriousness, I think Britney, uh, you're you're very wise.

You're not doing anything wrong. >> No, it's not her money. >> It's not your money. So, you decide what you want to do with it. Uh, but I like that. It's a really interesting call. And in that situation with a public company, the proof is in the pudding.

And here's what I know about public companies. If this guy doesn't get it right, >> the next guy >> then they're going to get somebody >> there will be a next guy >> who gets it right. And so, that's where my mindset is. So, I'm thinking long-term play. uh in this unique

situation. But I loved your advice, too. I I it's hard not to take advantage of that. And by the way, to fully come back to your your point of view going forward as she gets new stuff, I I love that idea of going >> moving it over. >> Thank you. Thank you very much.

>> I'll take it from here >> and I'll take it. So, I I would do that as well and I want to stipulate that.

>> Yeah. >> I just was so stuck in my other position then. Now, I just none of it was wrong.

>> No, no, no, none of it. So a very interesting stuff and what a benefit to people who uh who have that option.

>> I know. Very nice. >> Stock options are very nice folks.

Hello. I got a friend. I got a friend who shall remain nameless who just recently left a massive company.

>> Oh yeah. >> And he cashed out and boy oh boy.

>> Cha ching. >> Oh [laughter] boy. He had a good day folks. I had a good day just hearing about it and I didn't get anything from it. That's a good friend right there. The afterglow of his stock cashaching was so nice that I even felt good. After >> There you go. Afterlow.

[music]

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[music]

[music]

Anna is up next in Lexington, Kentucky.

Anna, how can we help?

>> Hello. Hello. All right. Me and my husband, uh, we got ourselves in a pickle. We're spinning fast. young and dumb, you know, >> but that's okay. That's okay. God redeems, right? >> Yes. >> Um so essentially, um we we have about

I'll just see the numbers actually. It's about 106,000 in debt. Uh that's outside of our mortgage and that's totaling up to about

like 30 3,700

a month. Um, but our house is for sale

and we'd be left over with about I believe about 12 or 13,000 left over if we sell our house at this price. Kind of like knock it all over the way and then keep on doing what we're doing about like strapping down and paying off our debt. Um, so yeah, we just want to hear your thoughts on that and like >> where you going to go after you sell your house?

>> Yeah, so we really feel the Lord calling us back to Knoxville. Um that's where we were before and we bought this house like we weren't fearful about it at all.

It's beautiful. It's gorgeous, right? But um it's really isolating and we work from home. We have two beautiful boys.

We have a nanny that comes in and um yeah, we just feel like uh we should be back in Knoxville for a ministry sense.

And >> so you're not selling the house. >> But you didn't answer my question. You're selling the house in Lexington because you're called back to Knoxville.

Where are you going to live and how are we going to pay for it? >> Oh, rent. rent.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. We can't buy the we we can't buy the house in in cash or anything and we don't want to get in that same situation. So, okay. >> We rent in we'd be looking about 2500 a

month for rent. Um we make a when we're

in Tennessee because of the income tax, we'll make about 10,500 a month.

>> Okay. So, very good income. And is that just his income or both of you?

>> I wish maybe one day. Oh, no. That's

both of ours. So, he makes about um a

hundred or 100,000 a little.

>> Are you still there?

>> Oh, we lost.

>> Yeah, we just feel like uh we should be backing up.

>> Okay. Anna, are you in a storm shelter?

Are you driving? We We're losing you.

>> No. Oh, you're losing me. >> Yeah, it sounded like you went in the janitor's closet. [laughter] >> Okay. So, your question is what to do

with >> any cash or anything.

>> I tell you what, I tell you what, we're gonna put Ann on hold and let's see if we can get a better connection there.

Uh, let's go to Luke in Philadelphia.

Luke, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Good. How are you, sir? What's going on? >> I'm doing good. Um, so I'm going to re

be receiving an inheritance from my grandfather ne next month. going to be like around uh $85,000.

I'm very blessed with that. Um my question is um being a Ramsay fan, I

know that [clears throat] Dave always said to pay off the debt. So I was planning on paying off my uh student loans. Uh they're about 55 $56,000.

Um but I was talking to uh my friends in

the bar. So this is where all bad ideas start. >> I like [laughter] where this is going though. But he gave me I he gave me some good advice. He was saying um that I should invest it I think in like a low

secure I'm trying to I don't really know this the stock stuff. Um but he was saying to invest it into a uh like a low security stock um investment plan. So like the government I guess I think it's the government fund at like four and a half%. And I use Y refi for my student loans. So they're down to two and a half% interest rate. So, I'm trying to like I I I I'm kind of unfor I'm kind of

leaning towards that because, you know, keeping the inheritance for as long as I can is very appealing. >> Wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. >> So, if I hear you right, you're kind of leaning toward your buddy's advice in

the bar that you can't even say to us in a coherent way. >> Well, cuz he didn't hear it in a coherent way. He heard it after six beers. [laughter] >> Yeah.

So, you're >> No, it was six. It was only 6:00 in the evening, so it wasn't it was they weren't that belligerent yet. >> But I mean, I hope you hear yourself [laughter] whether you were inebriated when you heard it or not. You couldn't repeat it to us in a very coherent way.

And that doesn't really matter. My point is, you got to see the irony in calling this show to ask us if if you should take your buddy's advice that you can't recall uh overpaying off the debt. I'm going to I'm going to see the balance of my time and hand it to the lady uh and see what she says because she I know what she's going to say. >> Oh, well, Luke, yes.

You know, everybody knows what I'm going to say, but I want to frame it to where it's you making the choice and not not me because it doesn't >> it's got to be you making the choice. So, you have to ask yourself what's what do you value?

Because if you're a person who says, you know what, debt's not good. I don't like the way I feel when I'm in debt. I don't like being a slave to the lender. I'd like to have better sleep at night.

I don't like this thing, you know, over the shadow over my life all the time. If you value getting away from that, then you're going to say, "There'll be other time to invest. This is my chance to break free." But if you say, "You know what? I don't really have a problem with debt.

I don't mind borrowing money. It doesn't really bug me. You know, it's fine for me to leverage somebody else's money to get what I want." Like, if you're that person, then you might say, "Well, yeah, I'm just going to take this money and invest it." If you ask us, we're going to tell you all day, every day that debt is not the way. It's stealing from you.

It's stealing your monthly payment even at 2 point and two two and a half% interest. It's stealing your peace.

We're going to tell you that. But if you don't value that, >> then it doesn't matter what I say. You're still going to get off the call and do what your, you know, your buddy six drinks in told you to do.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> I get what you're saying. Yeah. The way he Well, I mean, I need to hear this from you in a bar and six drinks deep.

Then then I can really believe in it.

>> And maybe. So, listen. Well, you could pour yourself a tollman while we tell you this. I don't know if that helps. >> Let's think of it like this. Okay, so you've got 85. You could essentially do both. You could pay off the 56,000. Just think for a minute, Luke, how great that would feel for that to be out of your life. Cuz how old are you?

>> I'm 26. >> 26. They're gone forever. Now you've got the rest of your working life, another 26 to 30 years to not only keep the

other uh the other 10 or so that's left,

right? the other 15 that's left, you can go ahead and invest that. Let it sit. Do what your buddy said. Well, don't do what they said. Invest it in mutual funds. And then you have the next 30

years to invest 15% of your income and

build wealth. You're going to be a multi multi-millionaire.

>> Okay? >> So, why not do both, right? Why not clear out the debt and be a multi multi-millionaire? >> I'll drink to that. >> I'll drink to that. >> This is why I called because I was like, you know, Luke, you're leaning towards your friend in a bar. And how much do they have? How much money do they have?

[laughter] >> They they make they do deeds. They do better than me. But yeah, >> ask them to show you proof.

>> I don't listen, I don't mind that you're getting advice from your buddy in a bar, but it better be good advice.

>> I want to know that they are killing it.

[laughter] >> So my goodness. Uh yeah, pretty straightforward answer for us. Um, and and and I think what you nailed >> is what I don't think people think about until they start to listen to us or watch us and they hear us say it the same thing over and again and I'm going to bring it back to you having you having written a book what no one tells you about money and that is the psychology. >> Yes.

>> Nobody looks at that on a Tik Tok or Instagram. Well, it's an emotional thing when you talk about building wealth, especially when you have this opportunity in your hand that he's got $85,000 in his hand that he didn't work for. Somebody just dropped it and it's like, "Oh my gosh, this is my moment." And here we are saying, "Put it on your debt." That is like buzz kill, right? It feels terrible.

That's why I framed it up on his values because here's the truth. The truth is, is it the worst thing in the world he could have done to take that 85 and just drop it in an index fund? Oh, come on. There's a lot dumber things he could have done.

He's still doing something, you know, smart. He's investing it. But when we're talking about good, better, and best, the best move is to clear out your debt, pay off, you know, pay that out, get that done. It's not chasing you.

It's not haunting you. And people don't consider the emotional side of that to finally have peace. When people let their student loans stick around forever, Ken, the amount of guilt associated with that is is crazy because you're like, man, here I am with these student loans. He's going to get married one day.

Maybe he already is and his wife's going to have to be married into that. Then he's going to have kids one day. His kids are going to have to, you know, feel the stress of that. So when you're the quicker you're able to deal with this, >> that's right.

>> The better. >> Because here's the dirty little secret, Jade.

Most people don't want to admit this.

Many people like this, Luke, if they don't uh they don't do this and take care of this, they're going to wake up in their mid-50s with student loan and then do the math one day of how much interest they've been paying and now you're talking about severe stomach pain. and ain't no medicine to take care of that. So, I love the advice. Uh that's just one of the things she takes on in the fabulous new book.

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[music]

[music] >> Jade, you know this, but I got to tell a lot of these folks that the allnew Every Dollar is here and um it's more than what we've have been telling you it is and what it was. That's right. >> As a great budgeting app, but I sat with the team today and you ready for this?

This is so fun. I was going through a full demo of it. You know what this is?

>> This is everything. Every dollar is everything you would get if you called this show, but a whole lot more. Let me explain. >> Yes, >> they are going to interact with you.

This app interacts with you, finds out where you are, and then you know that you can actually get a free 10-minute coaching call. >> I've been trying to tell people >> and the most you're going to get if you call this show is eight minutes, >> right? [laughter] And it's truly probably not eight after I yammer on for a minute. It's probably seven.

And it's not going to be free because I'm going to tell you once Dave figures it out, it's not going to be free.

>> You think so? [laughter] >> But it's a free 10-minute call. That's if you even need it. But I kid you not, >> people go, "Is every dollar just a bud?" No, it's not just a budget. It is literally like calling this show. You get real digital advice that you're going to answer these questions. You're going to you're going to get real legitimately awesome specific coaching

and then you can get a coach if you want a real life coach. This is unbelievable.

So, they're going to help you find a minimum of $3,000 right out of the gate.

I'm I'm looking at this data today. So, that's what it is, Jade. What What do you add to this? You've been on this game for a bit. >> Every dollar is exactly what you need.

But let me tell I'm going to take it a step further. the dynamic duo that you need. You need every dollar cuz that's going to do the coaching. It's going to do all the practical stuff.

Make you stay on the baby steps, numbers, but then you need to pick up this book that goes with it cuz that's going to give you >> Would that be your book, Jade? >> Yes. You get the practical side with the numbers and then you get the emotional side with this. This is what you need with your every dollar.

I'm just saying it's a pairing. It's like I see what she did wine and cheese >> cuz cuz every dollar is going to tell you what to do and how to do it. And then Jade's book is gonna come alongside and go, "Hey, when you're in the middle of this, here's how you keep doing all >> here's how you're gonna fit." Yeah.

>> Do them both. >> I love that. It's very good. Start Every Dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. And since she mentioned it, you can pre-order Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money. Uh same place, ramseyolutions.com/store.

Uh and uh there you go. The one-two punch. And I would do what she says.

It's not good when you don't. Take it from me. Pat is up in Kansas City. Pat,

how can we help today?

>> Um, I am uh completely out of debt uh

this month. Paid off my home.

>> Wow. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How much is the house worth?

>> Um well, I I'm not sure. I I I think on

Zillow it it shows it at like 550.

>> Oh, it's probably worth more.

>> How real that is. >> Well, you know who? find out from a good realtor. But congratulations. You're you're in that neighborhood. You're in that neighborhood. That's a that's awesome to be in a half a million dollar range. Good on you.

>> Yeah. Um so now I've got about another

nine to 10 years of uh of working.

>> Okay. >> And I have a business and uh so I need to start because I've been self-employed pretty much my whole adult life. I've invested in businesses and lost and built back up and lost and built back up. Now I can finally put money away for retirement.

>> Mhm. >> And uh so far I've got about 185 in

stocks and some small Roth IAS.

Uh >> what's the business? >> We want to be wise about from this point on. >> What's the business?

>> Uh it's a a mechanical company. Uh heating, air conditioning, plumbing.

>> Do you plan to sell it?

>> I I don't know. I don't really have a plan. an exit plan. I kind of thought that I would just uh manage it and, you

know, get some income >> and then just shut it and then just shut it down >> or or sell it. I'm I'm a plan right now.

>> Well, that but that's why I'm asking part of your retirement. >> Yeah, my friend. Like in in your case, that needs to be a big part of the plan given that you don't have much in retirement money put away, but you have paid off your house, which puts you in a great situation. So, you're actually not as bad a shape as you think, but this is probably one of your best opportunities.

Let's just let me walk through some numbers with you if you don't mind. What uh what is what what's your what was your uh what do you anticipate? Well, let's do two two questions. What was your gross revenues last year 2024 in

your business? >> Uh last year was uh 1.2 million.

>> Okay, great. And what are you anticipating that it will be in 2025?

>> It'll be about 1718.

>> Okay. And uh how much how much are you netting?

>> Um I I'm honestly honestly I'm I'm not

sure. I'm not much of a business.

>> What do you What do you pay yourself? Is it just you? say myself one right uh I have a partner who does not take a uh who who bought into the business about uh in 2022 which I did that because I

always needed a good I always wanted to have a business person because I'm a technician that's what I am right >> and uh I've grown the business it's almost 20 years old I've grown it and lost it and grown it you know >> but what do you pay yourself >> I pay myself 175 >> 175 and after you pay yourself does does anything remain in the business is just kind of retained earnings every year.

What what's left over?

>> Um uh maybe 100,000.

>> Okay, good job. >> You know, I had to get myself out of debt in the business, too. So, I've I've paid off a lot of debt in my business.

>> Do you employ So, you don't employ anybody?

>> No, I have 12 employees.

>> That's what I thought. Okay. Because on 1.2 million, I'm going where's the rest of that money going? And so, so, okay.

So, you don't you don't have a firm grasp on your numbers, which is okay today, it's not okay tomorrow. So, whoever's running the books, whether it's your business partner, uh, or your or your I don't know if you have a CPA doing your books, you need to get yourself in the numbers and and you don't need to ash I'm just a technician anymore. It's no, this is part of my retirement. And so, I want to see where we are and and what we can do here as it relates to uh investing money. uh where

is the business itself? Um what is its

potential growth path over the next let's call it 10 years because that's the number you gave us. You've got a a goal of 10 years. So where can that business be in 10 years and let's talk to that business partner and I'm sure that partner is probably fine >> uh exiting when you exit if not sooner.

So, let's get a real plan in place and um because all of a sudden, you know, it's reasonable to believe that uh this business could be you could uh exit for3 to5 million with some really good work done over the next. I don't think that's a crazy number. >> I don't think that's crazy given what you're saying. As long as you keep trending the way you've said >> and I'm speaking in general terms here.

If we continue to grow the company, no debt, >> especially I was going to say especially that there's no debt on the business. That's great. >> So, that's a pretty nice chunk. How much how much does your owner I mean excuse me. How much does your partner have in the company? How much equity?

>> Um well he's 49. I'm 51.

>> That's how much money did he put in for 49? >> He put he put in 300,000 now. Now now when he did that uh you know where I I've grown since I mean I' I've had it up to about 2.6 6 million and come back down. And um but since 2020 was like 600,000 and 21 750

22 when he bought in in 22 we did about

800,000 then 23 a million. So we've been

going up every year. >> Good. >> Yeah. I think you're fine to answer your initial question where you're like, "Hey, I've got 10 years to save for retirement." Ken pointed out you've got this wonderful asset in the business.

Yeah. You guys need to decide a 10-year plan of what that's going to be with your partner. Obviously, it sounds like you've got majority vote on whatever that is. >> Do you have a very good tax Do you have a good tax pro?

>> Um, I think so. I I mean I

>> Okay, two things. You need a you need a Smart Veester Pro. Uh, if you don't have a Smart Investor Pro, you need to click on that link on our website and go interview some people and get somebody and sit with them. I'm talking like next week >> interview.

I always recommend interview at least two or three Smart Investor pros. Go with the one that you feel does the best job explaining things to where you understand what you need to do and why you should do it. The one that you got the best chemistry with. This is a relationship.

And let's look at our long-term. What do they say you need to be doing?

Have them look at the whole thing. I'd also get a tax pro and let's look at your tax situation and let's maximize everything we can because we're we're aiming with a 10-year bullseye on on

making and keeping as much money as possible. That's why I'm recommending the tax pro as well. >> And even if you only invest from the employee side, you as the employee, you as the employee, right? Just the 15% like we recommend, you're still going to be at a million bucks if you're just investing 15% of your $175,000 income.

So that's the good news. So, you're in good shape, plus a chance to exit. So,

>> yeah, >> lock and load, man. Focus. Let's crush the next 10 years personally and professionally, and I think you're going to find that you're in plenty good shape. Thanks for the call.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.88255225

is the phone number if you want to jump in. Let's go to Vincent who's waiting in Las Vegas. Vincent, how can we help today?

>> Hello. Uh, how are you guys today?

>> We're well. How are you?

>> I'm I'm better than I deserve, as Dave would say. >> I've heard that a time or two. What's going on?

My my question is that I live a a very simple life and and now it's gotten to the point where I'm struggling to really give full effort and attention in work and other aspects of life when I feel at this point pretty confident in the amount of money I have in my savings and emergency fund. And I more or less already have everything I want in life

basic needs.

>> I'm 22.

>> That's some accomplishment. >> This begs a few questions. How much cash do you have?

>> Um about 80,000.

>> And how much in savings or retirement?

Because I think you mentioned savings or some type of investments. What do you have?

>> Um yeah. So between the 80,000 is

between uh cash checking account uh

Charles Schwab account uh which is ETFs and gold. And >> how much is the break it down how much is the ETFs and how much is the gold?

Uh, gold I think is about 3,000 and then

the ETFs is I think about 20,000 and

then in high yield CDs I have about

40,000 I believe.

>> Okay. >> And then in checking I have about 20,000. >> And the checking, would you just call that like a rainy day fund?

>> Uh, yeah. That's just where my paychecks go and that's where I um make most of my

daily expenses. >> Okay. What are your monthly expenses?

Just give me a number.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, my income is about 6 to7,000 a

month and then after after taxes and my

basic expenses, I probably have about 3,000 left from 3 to 4,000.

>> Okay, that's great. It's great, but it's nowhere near the the guy who presented at the start of the call going, "Hey, I've got everything I need. I'm 22 and I'm just having a hard time being motivated because I don't see the rest of the math that would add up to that." >> Well, I I think I might get it a little

bit. I'm not saying I agree. I just think I understand where he's coming from. At 22, you're doing awesome. So, I can understand you thinking thinking that like, man, what's I I don't have any You don't have any debt, right? Like, I don't have any debt. I've got 80,000 in assets. Uh do you do you own

your own place or do you rent? Tell us about that.

>> Um I I rent a studio apartment and it's

um significantly below market value due to uh uh friends and family rate from a

connection I made at >> Okay. But I'm Okay. I I'm I'm so confused. Honestly, I'm I'm really confused by your response.

>> Well, I'm I didn't get to finish. My my point was if your measuring stick is for a 22y old then I think yeah I think you're doing great for a 22 >> but that's not how he presented the the t you said you were having a hard time being motivated. >> I understand I'm getting to it. I'm saying like I see where you're saying but you have now you have to look up and look out because for a 22-year-old that's great but you're going to age and there's going to be other things that are going to pop up.

So that's why I asked you about where you rent or where you live and you said you're a renter. So already that's telling me, okay, well that means that at some point you're going to want to be able to buy. And so that's already a huge financial goal that you can set your sights on. Then you said, okay, well here's my income right now at 22.

I think that's a wonderful income, but soon you're going to, you know what I'm saying? There you have to you're looking at where you are today and that's why you're feeling like I feel like I got it in the bag. But if you look up and out, you're going to say, okay, there is more for me to reach towards.

I I do see what you're saying and that's often the advice that I get from some

people I talk with or or professionals I've talked with you really

>> because I don't really have a any desire to like buy a house someday. There's no reason to buy a house if I'm just going to be in it by myself. I just need one bedroom. You know, >> you don't want the security of having a fixed that that biggest asset or that

biggest line item on your budget. You don't want that to be fixed.

>> Uh, not really because there's, you know, other expenses and repairs and taxes that >> that come with it. And >> Sure, but you've got all the money in the world to pay for it. It sounds like >> it's not like that would break you. >> I mean, >> yeah, but to me, I don't really see a difference between having that or just having it between, you know, high yield CDs and stocks and gold, you know? Can I

ask you why why then you care about the high yield, the CDs, the stocks, and the gold? What where what's the motivation behind that?

>> I wouldn't say I care about it. I would I would more say that I have excess income at the end of each month, sometimes more due to a bonus from work or something and I put that into

something that is going to give me some return, but it's also very liquid if, you know, one day I wake up and decide I want to do something, I guess. >> Okay. What's what's at the root of your question? I don't think we're I don't think we're addressing or that you got it out. I'm not sure what what what is the reason for calling today?

I I guess the reason for calling is is

that I already have a roof over my head

and food on my table and clothes on my body and I don't turn on my car and wish I drove a nicer car or go to sleep at night and wish I had a bigger bedroom or eat food after work and wish I could have, you know, eat a nicer meal because I already could do all of those things and I don't. I just put it towards saving. >> I I understand that's leading to something. So that or so what what is

the point?

>> The the point is that I I don't know I

guess where to spend money where I enjoy it because I feel like wherever money I've spent including taking international vacations or buying uh

nicer clothes or jewelry or whatever I don't or even spending it on gifts for other people. I I feel almost all the time that my life is basically the same as if I was just doing the absolute basics. And >> you're completely indifferent to all of those things is what you're saying. >> I I I get what you're saying. I just don't know what you're asking and so I don't I'm just curious. You called us.

>> Are you making more of a statement? Are you here to make more of a declaration of >> what's the question?

>> Is there a question? I guess the question the the question is I I guess how can I change my mindset to the point where I'm giving half effort in my job that I do and you know for example

>> right so that's a whole or brushing my teeth but I don't know how to accelerate that to give 100% effort because I

talking to many professionals >> okay okay let me let me jump in okay what I'm hearing is a guy who's describing work and what comes from the work as only a paycheck and I don't really care about all the stuff I get for a paycheck. And I I talk a lot about this. I've talked a lot about this for years. And I think what's what's missing is uh this is not about working to make

money for you. I get it. I appreciate that point of view. It's very pure. I love it. But you're asking the question, Ken, I I think you're saying, I'm not very motivated. And what about that?

Now, here's where this comes in. Uh you've got to be doing work to make a contribution that you care about. So, I would start looking into what are the results that I ultimately want to put into this world. you're going to have to keep bringing in an income. You're not in that kind of shape. And you didn't say you weren't, but you're only 22 and and there's a lot of work left for you just to take care of yourself and do basic investing. But I understand you're going, I'm not working to have stuff.

Then you need to start to shift your mindset to I need to work to make a difference. In other words, uh what is the contribution I want to make in the

world of work? And that's going to provide motivation for you. So, I'll give you three questions that you need to answer over the days ahead. Here they are.

Who are the people that I want to help? Be specific. What problem or desire do those people have? And then third, what are the solutions to that problem or desire that I get most fired up about?

Here's what you're going to find. Multiple opportunities to go to work and do something that matters deeply to you. And then it's not about the money. The last thing I would say for somebody like you is find a way to give a lot away.

Okay, everybody, and I mean everybody, needs insurance. However, it can be very

hard to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck off of you, sell you something you don't need, or a junk policy. And that's why Ramsay Trusted uh

is where it is. And it's such a lighthouse to so many people. And our insurance um the Ramsey Trusted Insurance program uh vets pros for you.

So, these are people that are out there in the marketplace and Ramsay vets them to make sure you're not dealing with sleazy business people. uh and they've

been interviewed and coached to make sure that they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. And if they don't do that, we kick them out of the program. And so that's why we call it Ramsey Trusted. You can go to ramseysolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for or connect with a Ramsey trusted agent.

And keep in mind, this is not just a one-way street. In other words, we're not looking to just be making sure we have the right coverage. We want to make sure we don't have too much coverage >> and thus can save you money.

you're listening on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the show notes to get connected over there. Grand Rapids is where we're going now. Mary is joining us there. Mary, how can we help?

>> Hi. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, so, so I'm 64 years old. Um, still

working. Well, I retired once, but I'm went back. I'm a school teacher, single parent. Um, I have two sons. My older son is 30. Um, and he's well, he's doing

okay, but he drives a junky old car and

I get worried about him in it. Uh, he's

kind of struggling financially and I'm my question is, should I give him my my

car and me get a new one? And, you know, I'm getting older. When do I stop helping my kids?

>> Did he ask you to help or are you just observing this and you're assuming he needs your help?

>> Yeah, he did not ask. He He's a good guy. He doesn't ask, but I you know, so it's me thinking, I think I can afford a

car. Should I? And I hear I've heard Dave say it's good to help your kids,

you know, when you can. I don't know. I just >> Why is he struggling financially?

>> Well, he went to college, had a couple jobs, didn't like him, and now he's decided he wants to be an EMT.

>> So, he was doing schooling to be an EMT.

and um just kind of working.

>> Great. Is he single? >> I don't know. >> He's single. Yeah. Okay.

>> And and this is not a work ethic issue, correct? He's always been employed. He's hopped around a little bit, but he's he's got some character. Is that what I'm hearing? >> Yeah. Oh, he's he's a worker. In fact, he's got some money saved maybe, you know, in a Roth IRA and um he's responsible. But I >> when you say >> and I just hate seeing him in that junky car. >> When you say junky car, what is that?

Because maybe what's junky to you is just a cash

car that he likes to drive because he doesn't care about cars and car payments.

>> That's Oh, that's for sure. He's kind of a a you know, very frugal, I guess.

>> Oh, good. And he has no debt. >> 2000.

>> No debt. >> Well, what's the car? Answer her question. Do you know what it is? >> It's a two 2007 uh Honda Fit.

>> Okay. I You know what? I'll be honest with you, Mary. I think that he has different values than you do possibly.

And if you tell me that this guy is debtree, he's got some money saved in a Roth IRA, he's studying to be an EMT, and he has a older car with no payments, I'm hooping and hollering for him. I'm like, way to go. Good job.

>> So, no. No.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't. Now, now let let me flip it real quick. Um, let's say I

don't know your financial situation, Mary. Let's pretend that I mean you you did say you're still working. Let's say you've got a couple million bucks.

You've got your teacher's pension.

You're going to retire, no problem. And you were thinking of getting a new car.

>> And that that is that is the case.

>> Okay. And you were thinking of getting a new car anyway that you're paying cash for. And you're like, "Hey, what do you drive currently?" What would be the car that you're giving him?

>> It's a a 2013 um Toyota

>> and no payments, right? >> Like a No, it's paid for. Yeah, I have no debt. He my children have no debt cuz that's how >> that's how we roll.

>> So if you wanted to offer it to him and say, "Hey, I'm getting a new car. Would you like to have this? I'd love to give it to you as a gift." I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But if you couch it in, you need this car.

I mean, like if if the if the spirit around it is you're struggling, you need this gift. Please, for the love of God, take this car, [laughter] that might not feel great.

>> I love this line of question.

>> That makes sense. >> I like how you're digging, partner. But I now I'm going to dig. >> You dig it. >> I thought I heard you say multiple kids.

Is that true?

>> Two sons. >> Yes. >> Two boys. Is this kid the one we're talking about? 30-y old. Is he the youngest?

>> No, he's the older one.

>> Okay. I'm just gonna tell you as a as a as a father of multiple kids, [laughter]

>> you know where I'm going here. >> If you do one, you got to do the other.

>> I just think there's weird I think there's >> I'm not No, here I'm not that guy. I'm not one that says you have to do for one

that you do for the other. I'm not I'm not a >> a hard line on that. But I I am acknowledging here and I'm bringing it up for sake of conversation because you've met the financial test. Jay did a fabulous job checking on all that. Um, and my initial answer was no because he didn't ask for it and he's he's finding his way. Um, but now I'm going to

question the psychology here. If you do this and then the younger son, I just

think you have to think about that.

>> I'm not even going to say what you should do because I think you're a wise woman. I'm just going to bring that up.

>> And I'm not going to say that you got to do for the youngest what you do for the oldest. And I love your mom heart. I totally feel all of this.

>> That's why I'm bringing that part up. I'm not even going to say what the position is. >> Well, then let's ask. What do you think would happen with the youngest son if

you gave the oldest son your 2013 paid to car?

>> Well, there's even I was trying to be brief, so there's even more to it. So, I've given both my kids they've been given all their cars and and just so you know, I mean, I'm a widow, right? Um my husband died 10 years ago and I'm I'm

proud of both my sons. They both went to college and um you know gra graduated.

They're hard workers. They no debt.

>> Um so my one son has the younger son has

my newer old car, right? And the older son has the older hoopy.

>> Okay. So this is just part of the routine. >> Oh, well then I change. I wish. Okay.

Well, Mary, you're so sweet. Do it. I didn't We didn't know all this. I appreciate you wanting to be brief, but this is the background that we need. And I think with all this, I'm changing my entire position and go, Mary, you can give them the car today if you want to. >> Yeah. And then in seven years when you buy a new car, you'll [laughter] give the the old one to the other side. >> I feel like these boys are these boys are blessed. >> Yeah. And you're a good mom.

>> You're a great mom. My goodness, Mary.

Well, well, say well. I mean, I just I worry I worry about him and like Dave said, I really take what he >> says to heart that when the kids need help, they can need help when they're younger and I think, well, is that like

this giving them a card? I mean, I guess it would >> I do think there's a [clears throat] statute of limitations and I don't know what it is. >> Yeah, >> I do think it's like I'm not sure I'm giving them another one after 30. I mean, this is you've been very generous, but I don't know that I keep this up the rest of your life. >> Maybe, but if they're responsible, I can totally see like as a parent, I could totally see.

>> I don't being being done with something and being like, well, maybe I'll just give it over, you know? >> I don't know. At some point, I want to go, "Mom, you're the best. I should probably pay for my next car cash like an adult." >> But there's nothing wrong here.

>> No, there's nothing wrong. >> There's nothing wrong here. >> There's nothing wrong there. You said none of them are knuckleheads.

None of them are, you know, entitled. That's all we were trying to sniff out.

>> I I'm getting them their initial.

>> Oh, okay. You feeling >> okay? [laughter] Can I pick your brain? Can I pick your brain one more time? >> Yeah. Real quick. We got about a minute. Go ahead. >> Okay. So So thank God my husband left us

well off and I've got a a a pretty good

net worth being north of a couple million. >> Good. And and I I'm like one of these

people, too. I've just worked my whole life. I'm having a hard time buying a a new car, feeling like, "Oh my god, can when can you afford to buy a different car? I'm so cheap when you have your net

worth." >> Yeah, you can afford to buy one today.

And I probably wouldn't spend more than, you know, if it makes you feel better, no more than half of what your teacher salary is a year. I mean, >> that's what I'm saying. Your teacher salary is basically whatever Mary wants to do. You're so set. You know what I would do if I were you, Mary? You're so good. >> Get yourself a fun car. >> Get Get something nice. Red.

>> Like something fun. Like what's fun for you? Even if it's an old classic

a Toyota Prius. Wouldn't that be fun?

They're cute. The new ones. >> If you say so, Mary. >> It's your money. Mary, if you think the Prius is fun, knock yourself out.

>> Send us a picture of you getting inside.

>> That'll be fun. >> Oh my god. >> You're the best, Mary. Do it. You've earned it. You have

[music]

[music]

our question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But Yrefi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your life. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. >> That's right. Today's question comes from Mary. Another Mary. I've we've had three Marys today. Is that right?

>> One in the lobby, one on the line, and now one in the words. >> Is there a song Mary or something? I was thinking Miss Mary Mac all dressed in.

Yeah. All right. Anyway, today's question or why refi [laughter] question of the day comes from Mary in North Carolina. She says, "I'm struggling with a question about the stereotypical golden handcuffs. My job pays well, but

to be honest, I'm not motivated to be there anymore, Ken. >> I struggle with a lack of purpose, Ken.

I'm about four years away from retirement, and because of your advice, I do have a 6 to8month emergency fund. I do have over 1 million in retirement funds and I do have a paidoff home. Way to go, Mary. Do I push through the last

few years to keep stockpiling money or

should I look, Ken, for another job that will certainly pay less but enjoy more?

>> Uh, I would go with look for another job

that you enjoy more. But let's not assume. Let's not only look at something

that pays less. In other words, it sounds like she has an idea here.

>> Uhhuh. >> And so before she locks in on the, well, I'm going to enjoy it a whole lot more, but it's going to pay a whole lot less.

Let's just see, can we have uh good pay

and good enjoyment, let's at least exhaust all options.

>> Um, and and and you know, listen, I've always taken this position and uh Dave doesn't like it sometimes. He'll always go, well, if you can find just as much money. And look, the data the data bears

itself out. you know, money is not what drives meaning. And in this case, if you can't find something that pays similar,

um I would be fine with her doing this.

I absolutely would because of the stage of life that she's in. Um she's fine financially. She didn't say she's going to stop working, >> right? >> Uh so yeah, I think that when someone presents like this, >> I'm never ever ever

going to choose money over meaning. I

want to pull that thread more because obviously she's I mean she's set, right?

She's got the paid off home. She's got the nice retirement. She's got everything. Six months of emergency, all that. Um at what point

can can one make that transition in your mind of Yeah, I'm making a ton of money, but it's just not it's not hitting right for me. Ken, you know, at what point can that person kind of do what you said and seek out the meaning even if the money doesn't >> Yeah. High level. The answer is what we teach.

when you have financial peace. In other words, when you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else.

>> I agree. >> But still have plenty of margin in her life. And she's now choosing to work for

contribution.

>> Yeah. Uh, and I think that's that's the answer. When you have enough peace >> or or we could call it margin, >> when you have enough peace and space in your life to make a decision like that and it is overwhelmingly good for your soul.

>> Because you have enough >> you can do that. >> And you know, again, and I'll tie this into the big picture on money. the

fourth largest group of net worth millionaires in a Ramsay study on the 10,000 plus millionaires that was behind

Dave's book u baby steps millionaires were teachers >> so these teachers aren't making a ton of money but they're making enough money

>> based on the lifestyle that they have chosen to live >> and they're doing the right things with the margin they have >> so in Mary's case I'm all for it and so

the answer is when you have peace You can dial back, you can downshift.

>> Mhm. Yeah. I think that's uh that's hard for people to >> It is until you work a job like Mary does and she goes, "I honestly four more years of this." >> Yeah.

>> Four more years when I don't need to when I don't want to. Um I I I'll draw a

really Okay, I'm glad you brought this up. Last thing on this, we'll move on. I want to draw the most extreme example of this I can for those of you who are going, "I don't know, Ken. That sounds a little a little fluffy. It's not fluffy.

One of the forms of torture we've seen throughout history is meaningless work.

>> And we saw this in World War II where in prison camps, prisoners would move one pile of rocks from one side of the prison yard to the other.

>> And uh if you're not familiar with that concept, read Victor Frankl's work, In Search of Meaning. And the idea here is is that that was a form of torture to do work that absolutely had no redemptive

value. It's hard, painful, and that is

to break down the soul, not the mind.

>> And the most >> tortuous thing you can do to somebody is to remove their meaning.

>> So I'm not trying to be dramatic here.

I'm just simply saying, >> I think that's so good. >> That's why I teach what I teach. If anybody's ever wondered, why is Ken talk about purpose and doing what you're wired to do? Because I do believe that we are souls and we have spirits and the

spirit leaves the body when it doesn't do what Ephesians 2:10 says, which is

that we are created for good works. And

so that would be my last statement on that. >> Man, I I like when I say something that gets this King Coleman out because this this this guy right here, he's got he's got a lot to say. Well, I I think if you wonder why someone feels, you know, meaningless and depressed at work, it's because they're doing something that they got no enjoyment. >> Now, there is a I mean, I I hear the listener right now where it's like, well, but you guys would tell a stay-at-home mom who wants to stay home that maybe it's a good idea for her to work while she's in debt, right?

Like, there's a line where we're saying to kind of bite the bullet um a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain.

>> That's right. where it can be worth that sacrifice because you know it's not indefinite, right? >> Well, let me just step into your example. A stay-at-home mom >> uh working part-time to help pay off debt is about as meaningful and purposeful work there is. >> And that's why we do it. >> That doesn't mean she's called to do part-time jobs. She's called to be a stay-at-home mom. And uh I there are viral clips on Instagram of of me on

this show saying loud and clear there's not a greater calling in the world than a stay-at-home mom. I am all for that.

And that is as as important as a job as there is on the planet. Now let me also say because shockingly that'll go viral and people go way to go Ken. Thank you. And then working women will come in there and attack me. My mom was a working mother. My wife Stacy worked uh for half of our kids' lives.

I'm for working women outside the home too. So let's just everybody relax. Um

but to your point, the greater point is

>> why am I working, >> right? >> And if you are only working to pay off debt, that's purpose.

>> Yeah. >> We we listen to debtree screams all the time. >> But there's a deep money behind that.

They're not they're not just working to pay off debt. They're working because they see a vision. >> Well, but yeah, but to pay off debt to then live like no one else. But my point is is that >> there is purpose in a short-term goal in work. >> But there's also great purpose in going, hey, I don't have to work anymore, but I

want to make a contribution.

>> And um there's two types there's two results from work. Okay? uh one is provision to take care of me to take care of my family to take care of my loved ones >> uh to take care of my responsibilities whatever those are the bills >> and then there is contribution and in our world we don't teach the contribution we teach provision provision provision and in a Christian worldview which I unashamedly hold

I don't think you can be a whole person I don't think you can have a truly purposeful meaningful sense of self if

you don't do some type of work even in retirement. >> I feel that. I agree wholeheartedly.

>> And I'm okay with everybody going, "By the way, if I want to retire and walk away, Ken, is that okay?" I sure. I for one am not going to do that. >> But you're going to do something. You're going to volunteer. You're going to help out with the grandkids.

>> I'm going to do something. >> Girl Scouts, you're going to do something. >> I'm Well, the Girl Scouts will keep me away, and I appreciate that. >> I'm talking about you.

[laughter] >> I know. I couldn't resist. You left it right there for me. Uh but yeah, I think that that we are made to work and that doesn't mean made to break our backs when we're 85, but I do think make a contribution as long as you can.

That's a pretty meaningful life. So, great question there, Mary. Uh really fun stuff.

>> I did. I threw you the pitch and you >> but a worthy a worthy conversation for all of you to say, "Hey, what do I want my life to look like after I've lived like no one else?

[music]

>> [music]

>> ours. Scripture of the day comes from Psalm 119:66.

Teach me knowledge and good judgment, for I trust your commands. And our quote today, Simon Synynic. Experts are the ones who think they know everything.

Geniuses are the ones who know they don't. Classic Simon. Little word play.

>> I like that. >> Simon can spin anything and sound brilliant. >> Yeah, >> that's brilliant. He got Guy flips all these phrases. I love Simon. Uh Brian is up in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Just fun.

What famous show was headquartered?

>> I was I was already playing the theme song in my mind, but I was like, this is so like >> The Office, right? >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. Poor people are Scranton.

They can't get past it. Uh, let's go to Brian. Brian, how can we help?

>> We We love not being able to get past, >> do you? So, [laughter] it's not it's not like an eye rolling thing when idiots like me bring it up.

>> No, you love it. >> Yeah, we love it. Actually, my my daughter uh learned the theme song on the piano for my birthday and played it [laughter] for me and I cried.

>> That's really sweet, Brian. Thank you for sharing that. That's so fun. Well, we're here for you today. How can we help?

>> All right, so uh my wife and I have had a couple uh large expenses come up this year that we've dipped into the emergency fund for. Um a sewer line backing up, uh a refrigerator died. So,

as we've been like replenishing our emergency fund, uh it's I just feel like it's taking quite a long time. Uh and we

haven't been like we haven't gone back to like the baby step three type intensity, like no vacations, no >> eating out. Like we we've kind of continued our baby step four, five, and six life. And >> uh I just wondered if if that's okay, that we that we didn't revert back to like barebones scorched earth. I think it depends on what's left in the emergency fund. Are you at like the three, you were at the six-month point and now you're at the three-month point or are you like down to like the one month point?

We uh after the two major expenses which were earlier this year, um we went down

to probably like two months and we're,

you know, we're we're replenishing it for sure. It's it's back up there, but we've always kind of ridden been comfortable with uh with a threemonth emergency fund. Uh-huh.

>> Um, just just cuz I'm I've been so I'm

always eager to, you know, be investing

and and, you know, saving up for the next kid's car or our car, you know, something like that. So, >> well, how far away are you >> of our marriage? We've been comfortable with three months. >> How far away are you? You said you were down to two months, so you only got a month to replenish.

>> Uh, yeah. Well, I I'll put it this way.

Our our emergency fund, we let ride at about $11,000. It went down to three or

four, I'd say, and we're back up to close to nine.

>> Um, >> can you not do this in one month next month? Can you just not pop $2,000 in there next month? >> I >> I we might be able to, but like other things have come up, non-emergency things that have that have kind of taken away from uh replenishing it quicker, like regular car repairs. Um

>> Yeah. uh like when whenever a vehicle goes into the shop, it seems to be, you know, hundreds more than we expect. And we we pay it we pay it with cash and >> Yeah. What do you make? >> What's your monthly income? >> Yeah. >> Between you and your wife. >> Uh let's see. I'm uh drawing a blank.

It's 90,000 a year before taxes.

>> Okay. Uh I want you to get this saved up sooner than later. Um for two reasons.

One, um you only had three months to

begin with. So, let's let's hurry up and get that stacked back up. Two, is do you both work or is it just you?

>> Uh, she has a couple side gigs that maybe bring in $500 a month um on a good

month. >> So, then yeah, that's >> But it's main she homeschools our kids.

So, it's mainly me working outside the home. Yeah, I want you to I do I want you to going back to your initial question of can we go a little bit slower at our 567 p 4 56 pace or do we

need to go with intensity because you're the only one working bringing in a livable wage and because it was only 3 months to begin with I would get intense on this and get it stacked up because every moment that you don't you are in a position of vulnerability.

Yeah, >> I final answer.

>> I I agree with Jade and I'll just give you a personal uh answer. Uh when I have

to touch the emergency fund, it irritates me >> to the nth degree.

>> And Stacy Coleman will tell you we it is it is it's it's gazelle. It's like

>> and I'm you know I mean it's are is that we're ladies point as soon as we touch it the next month I'm trying to get it back >> instant instantly. I just there's a certain thing I got so in love with that concept >> when we first heard it of the emergency fund that um there's a it just

>> it feels great having that there >> and I'm talking like even if it's like and I try to never touch it. That's the other thing >> we are always I'll manipulate the

monthly spending. >> Yeah. >> To try to not You would think the emergency fund wasn't there.

>> That's how much I like the emergency fund. We have an emergency fund for the emer the emergency fund is in a whole different high yield.

>> That's like no one ever It's like a vault. Scrooge McDuck vault.

>> Mine takes 24 hours to get it.

>> Yeah, that's right. And then there's >> a easy to get it. Yeah. You know, and so >> you got a chisel to get to it. >> And by the way, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it. But I'm at a stage of life where when we have the emergency, we're mostly taking care of that. But I'm telling you, I don't like to touch the emergency. So my answer is always going to be you better you better get Gazelle to fill it back up. >> Fill it back up.

>> That's about sleep.

>> I agree. I agree.

>> I sleep better knowing that that >> if we had to tap into three quarters of our emergency fund for emergencies, I would be a wreck today.

>> I promise you. I'd be in my kids' room selling stuff. They wouldn't know what was going on. [laughter] You know, like it'd be like, "Hey, we have a full emergency here.

What's the emergency?" The emergency fund needs to be replenished. Yeah, we're all going to work. [laughter] >> Everybody in this house is getting a job. >> I mean, that's a little it's a little extreme, but it >> No, I hear you.

It pays off. >> Well, it's crazy to think, you know, Well, I can't I'm launching into stories. Never mind. >> Yeah, I took too much [laughter] time on that one, but that's how I am.

Let's go to Amy in Phoenix.

>> Hey there, guys. Thanks for taking my call. >> You bet. What's up? >> Um, it's almost almost along the same line here. So, I am a solo parent and

I'm a sandwich generation. I have a nine-year-old and then my um retired

mother who lives with me and everyone depends upon me, >> okay, >> for their lives. Um, I'm very careful

with insurance. I always have life insurance and I actually just got a million dollar uh term with Xander.

>> Good. I'm I am cancelling my universal

whole life that really hasn't doing much for me. And I also have a whole life

policy I took out on my daughter >> because I was using that as like an investment. Um but I also have learned it's not an investment. But I thought, okay, hey, it just goes towards her education, right? Um, I've decided that

right now I think what is going to help our family out more is that I make sure everyone's provided for because education can be sorted out down the line and we would be going to community colleges. We live in a really good area where we could drive to community college and have great education.

>> So my my emergency savings Okay. So I'm

I'm zero debt.

>> Good. I'm 50. I have 20,000 in my

emergency fund.

Um I am making more money now than I have ever in my life. >> How much? >> And I have um this year I'm at 122.

>> Way to go, mama.

>> And 2026 I should net 190, guys.

>> Fantastic. Okay, we got about one minute. So get to your question. >> Yeah. So should I um get the refunds I'm

getting back from the whole life is going to be around 13,000. Okay. Should I fund my emergency fund to get it up to the 50,000 that it should be at? Should I use that towards the down payment of a house that we're not in yet? Or should I just max out my Roth IRA for 2025 and

2026 using that money?

>> The 50,000. Is that three months or six months of expenses?

>> That's six months. That's six months. uh knowing that you want to buy a a house, I'd be okay with you doing three months and then hitting the hitting the ground running on the down payment. I'd be okay with that. And then once you get the house, if you want to stack it up to six, I'm okay with that.

>> Okay. I that's where I was at where I don't know. I I just know that if anything happens to me, these people have to be provided for.

>> You've done it. >> It takes a while. It takes a while for insurance to kick in. could be it could be delayed up to two to three months before they pay out. I've seen this happen with my father with we've had a lot of debt in our family. >> That's true. But you'll have you'll also have $50,000 sitting there which will be something in the interim.

>> You've done a great job. I'm with Jade.

I think she gave you the right advice. Move forward on it. You've done a great job. Thank you for the call. Remember folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's [music] to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 13. Big Incomes Don’t Cancel Out Bad Decisions | September 1, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsy Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. George Campbell, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, Ramsay Personality. and and uh oh various other

things. He is my he's co-host of the smart money happy hour. Many other things around here. He's my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Katie is going to start us off in Akran, Ohio this hour. Hi Katie, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. So my husband is a physician so he's got a really good income. Um, but

he also has almost $500,000 in student

loan debt. We've been married three years, so I kind of married into his debt. Um, and as such, we're not sure if

now is even an acceptable time to be considering buying a couple of new to us used cars. Um, right now he works out of

state and will for the foreseeable future. Um, so he's gone 50% of the time

and I'm here with all the kids. Um, last week two of our vehicles were broken down at the same time, so I had no transportation. So, I was just uh we're looking to spend maybe a total of 40,000 on a van and a sedan. Um, and just don't

know if we're still supposed to be driving clunkers because of that massive student loan debt.

>> Are we attacking the massive student loan debt?

>> Um, probably not as fiercely as you would like. um which has uh and not as

seriously as I would like either um because because this is a second marriage for both of us. We've both had to kind of adjust our um financial views

a little bit, a little give and take. Um and so I'm more gung-ho than he is, but at the same time, we are still paying them off. Um we've paid off a 100,000 of them in the past uh two years.

>> Yeah. What's he make?

>> He makes um 40 400,000 gross. Mhm.

>> So, we're bringing home a little over 18,000 a month.

>> Mhm. You should be bringing home more than that.

>> Your taxes aren't >> uh it's about it's about n 19,000.

>> Yeah. That's >> after taxes and insurance.

>> That's almost 50%. >> That's almost You don't have a 50% tax.

So, some kind of problems going on here.

>> Is he investing through his retirement plan?

>> Yes, but that's actually already been maxed out for the year. So, yeah, I know. >> Well, that's why you're taking home less as well. That's part of the equation there. >> Yeah. >> So, if we pause investing, you could get back 20 grand in your pens.

>> I mean, the question is not really cars because based on the way you guys are currently living, you're trying to wander out of debt while continuing to do investing and

while you have but do this. You make 400,000, you only paid off a hundred grand in two years. I mean, and it's just awful. So, um, you know, there's no

intensity at all. >> We also have a lot of expenses that others may not have with him working out of state. He has to maintain an apartment out of state. Um, we have

three, well, I have three stepids that live in a different state that he has to go out there to visit on a monthly basis. Um, and so hotel rooms and travel

for that. Um, and then >> yeah, but but truthfully, Katie, you you told you told us you guys are not intense.

>> You you guys are not working our system.

Okay, I'm not mad at you, but so I don't know why whether you buy a car matters.

I mean, if you want to go buy a car, buy a car if you're going to keep working it this way. But you're going to struggle as long as you continue to do this. And so, um, you know, it's, um, you guys are

going to have to decide if you're going to lean into this debt thing and get rid of the debt. If you're going to lean into it, then stop the 401k and buy one

$10,000 car and get rid of these two pieces of crap that keep breaking down.

Um, but you know, as long as y'all keep acting like people that make 400,000, you're going to keep spending what you're spending and you're going to justify it and rationalize it and you're going to stay in debt. You're not going to get out. So, you know, I it doesn't

matter. You know, the $10,000 car doesn't matter. It's But what it does do the question what the question does do in your house, not not with us. It's not doesn't affect us, but between the two of you, it causes you to to say, "Okay,

are we going to do this or not?

>> Are we going to keep limping through this?" Cuz at this current rate, you're going to be in debt for 10 years.

And that's just, you know, that's not a plan. You know, it's not a good plan.

But, uh, and if you're going to do that, then, yeah, sure, buy a car. I mean, it's not buy all the cars you want to buy. I don't care. I mean, it's not it it cuz it doesn't what you're doing is your half butt doing everything and that's just not going to the everything we teach anyway. So, um yeah,

you guys need to have a discussion about this, okay? We need to sit down and make the money we have behave better and we

need to behave better and um we need to

get in very very intense because you are a broke doctor's wife.

You're married to a doctor who is broke.

broke poor people making 400 grand.

That's what you are. So you guys got to decide if that's how you want to live or not. I don't want to live like that. So >> yeah, part of this is getting a line going.

All right, how much can and should we be throwing at this debt? We want to be done in three years. Okay, that's 170 grand a year we got to be throwing at this. What does that take per month?

Once you make it mathematical, >> and what must be true? >> Yeah, we we got to cut. >> What has to be true of our lifestyle? What has to be true of the travel apartment?

What has to be true about this and true about that? And you know, and what's the the way we can for a short period of time? What can we sacrifice?

regardless of if you make 40 grand or you make 400 grand. >> Maybe you can repair the cars for five grand instead of spending 40 and that buys you a few years. Who knows?

>> Yeah. But I think I think what this highlights is not a car issue. What it

highlights is the issue that you guys are the plan you're working, you know, is not not working not well and you're

not on the same page and you guys

probably need to talk about what the flip are going to do going forward. I mean that then that will answer your car

question, you know. >> And do you even have 40 grand in cash to pay for this? >> Yeah, probably not. open phones at8255225.

Jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. So, um, George, one of the

things that happens, and it happened with me, I didn't have a choice cuz I went broke, but you can choose

to take away all your options. You can

choose to take away all your rationalizations. You can choose to do this. And, and you have to kind of run a a mental scenario. So, I always say tell people like, "Okay, you have no money.

What if you had to have $10,000

by Christmas to save the life of your

child with a medical procedure and you

couldn't borrow it, >> what would you do? >> You'd find it. You'd find it." And all of a sudden, all this, "Oh, well, I have to do this and I have to do that and bull crap. We're getting $10,000." If you make it a priority, it happens.

>> It's like it's life or death, >> whatever you focus on. And so you'll see all of a sudden all the all this stuff we think we need >> when you are trying to save the life, you know, when you put it in that kind of a mental gymnastic routine, then you

know, then you're forced into

looking at your life realistically.

>> Yeah. Cuz death isn't life or death, but you kind of have to make it that way to get out. >> No, it's not. But if you say, you know, if you act like that's how important this is, until it becomes important, you're not going to do it. >> That's the thing. As long as there's some something else involved, that's any goal in life, >> you're not going to do it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Open phones at88255225.

David is in Kansas City. Hi, David.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hello. >> Hi. What's up?

>> Well, I uh I am a divorced man. I'm 69.

I have a relationship with a widow who's

68. She's in another state. We're talking and uh we like to get together, but I'm trying to be a righteous godly man. I don't want to just live together.

I want to get married, but if I get married to her, then she will lose her

pension from her deceased husband, which is quite substantial.

So, um what I was thinking is just

having uh having a church wedding, doing everything the same except not filing for a state license. So, I just wanted your thoughts on that.

>> What is the nature of the pension? I'm confused why she loses it if she remarries. That sounds more like alimony than a pension. >> No, no, it's it's a her her husband was

a police officer for the state of New Jersey, which they have very very generous pensions. And so, uh it's

between three and $4,000 a month. and she would lose that if she remarries.

And what most people do in these situations is they just live together.

They don't even think about it. But I can't do that. It's a deal breaker for me. I would I would want to have some kind of ceremonies. I'm trying to be a righteous man, trying to do the right thing. >> But uh it's and this woman has have been through a lot. She's lost her mother, >> her sister, and her husband within the span of three years. And you know, she's been insecure most of her life. and she's finally has financial security.

And so for me to come and say, "Hey, well, you know, we're going to get married. You're going to >> What is your What is your net worth?"

>> Uh oh, I'm a chiropractor, so I make uh about 90,000 a year, but uh I get some

social security, too. My net worth is uh

not much. Uh 20 20,000 right now. I

don't have anything saved. I lost everything a couple years ago through divorce. M. >> Yep. >> Okay. And how long have you been seeing this lady?

>> Uh, just we've been talking for several

months. >> Mhm. Okay. >> Have you met her?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I said talking. I don't know if you were talking on the phone or >> like long distance. >> No, I I saw her. I saw her last year. I saw her. We met and we talked and she's an old u years ago was a was a

girlfriend in high school. So, >> I know her from back then. I know all about her from back then. >> Okay. All right. Um,

>> yeah. >> Well, it's a difficult one. I not going to argue with you there. Uh, I'm with you, though. There's no question I'm not living with someone I'm not married to.

I can't do that as a person of faith.

Okay. As a Christian, my book tells my book tells me not to do that. So, >> I don't I don't do with the things the book tells me not to do because they don't prosper me and they're not good for the people in my life and people around me and so forth. So, I just try to even though it doesn't make sense sometimes, I just do what the book says.

And so, I'm not doing that. It's not I'm I'm not like a Pharisee. It just is it's just worked good for me, you know. So, uh I'm a I'm a follower.

>> Well, there's a lot of people that do do that. They just live together. >> Yeah, I know. I know they do.

And they seem It seems like it's okay, but but you and I know that there's other issues. So, uh so then the only question if you go to the church wedding and you don't file with the state >> is just it's not a no longer a theological or doctrinal or religious question. it. You've solved that.

only question on the table is you are intentionally lying.

It's an integrity issue.

Uh just to keep this in place. And that that's a that's also a potential deal

breaker. I've got to work through that in my head if I'm in your shoes. Um I'm

not saying you're doing that, but I'm you you know, this is basically a maneuver to manipulate and not tell

these people you're married.

um and you are married and so that's deception you know there's no question about that and um there's good reasons

for it here but it is >> what who who you know gets back to who instituted marriage was marriage instituted by the government or was it instituted by >> No it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't you and I know when you go get married you're married okay and you know that the state of New Jersey did not want this pension going to her when she remarried and you're not telling them is what you're doing and So, you know that that that I've just got to work through that.

can't get I'm 63, so you and I could be in the same boat someday. I'm not. But, uh I'm not today, but I So I'm trying to relate and think through um

uh >> Well, I'm not trying to game, >> you The other thing is I I would investigate if there are um

>> any uh uh things that you can file with the pension board for uh individual exceptions like the the particular nature of >> I did hire an attorney. Yeah, I did hire an attorney. I looked into it and they said there's nothing much you can do.

And that's just kind of crazy to me because the state is actually promoting, you know, uh, a fornication lifestyle.

That's okay. It's okay.

>> Well, they they do they do with a lot of things. I mean, they they do with a lot of things with they do with the tax code. They do with a lot of other things. So, that's not that's not new.

That doesn't change your stance or my stance. We have to do our thing regardless of what the stupid state does. >> There's a lot of things that are legal that aren't right.

>> So, um, >> well, that's what I'm saying. If I'm doing this right in my eyes before on the ser I'm just talking it through with you.

You're more than welcome to do whatever you want to do. I I'm not saying you're a bad guy. I'm just talking it through with you. If I'm in your shoes, I've got to work through the fact that I am intentionally deceiving the state. And is that okay? And I'll give you a parallel example in my life is that I

hate so much so that just talking about it right now my heart rate is changing. I hate the federal income tax. It is

absolutely immoral, out of control,

pitiful. The money that I send to the federal government makes me want to throw up every time I think about it. I

hate it.

It's pitiful how bad they run this country. And I keep and they keep milking me even more, taking my money at the point of a gun. I hate it. But you know what?

I pay 100% to the penny that I owe. I

take every legal regulation and loophole they allow me to take and I'm a student of it. And I hire people with expensive checks that are students of it so that I can give them as little as possible with 100% of integrity.

But I hate it. Did I mention that I hate it? That I bring that up. And so, you

know, but it's it's not about them. It's about me. Am I doing the right thing?

So, if I'm in your shoes, I've got to get I'm not going to accept your lawyer's answer. I'm going to get with this get with these people. I'm going to talk to uh the governor. Crap. Call the

governor and talk to him. I mean, talk to the whoever runs the the police commission in the state of New Jersey and say, "Look, this guy died on the job

and you're denying his widow the right to move forward with her life with this.

It's ridiculous. You're asking her to shack up at 69 years old like she's some kind of 19-year-old that can't keep their pants on. This is ridiculous. And

and you guys need to you need to give us an exception on this. I'm going to I'm going to bust them. >> Yeah. >> If I'm you. And I understand why they do it, by the way, but uh to keep somebody from uh keep the widows from being a target >> later with them with the juicy pension.

>> But um I'm not saying he's targeting her at she if they get married, you know, he's he makes $90,000. That would effectively replace her income as long as they're married, but it still puts her at a precarious situation.

>> I she she's not going to want to do that. She's just she's been through hell and she's this money means a lot to her.

>> Um and so I I understand the predicament and I'm not uh unsympathetic to it, but you asked and so I got to tell you the way we answer questions in the show is what would we do if we woke up in your shoes, right? I mean, put your shoes on, walk in them. I I I hope I'm not ever in those shoes. Those are difficult shoes.

Uh but the first thing I got to solve is for the doctrinal part, the the the faith issue. You've solved for that one.

That one's done. >> And then I'll fight the bureaucracy after that. >> Yeah. That's like a couple of kids getting married in their 20s or something and they want to have a big fabulous wedding, but they want to go ahead and get married. They want to go and live together now. So they get they go to the church and they get married and then six or eight months later they have a wedding for all their friends.

And that's okay cuz they're married. That's that's, you know, financially, legally, uh, spiritually, all in line.

It's a, you know, that it's in that kind of same bucket for me as far as that goes. But I don't care if you register with the state, but I do care about deception in my life. I don't want to be the guy that's doing that. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Music]

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George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. The best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan. It's called a budget. Yes, I said the B- word right here on the radio. You need a budget.

You need a plan. You need to make every dollar behave. And every dollar is our

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You can download Every Dollar for free in the App Store and at Google Play and

you really ought to. Um here's the worst

thing. Go get on a budget. Lean into it,

especially if you're married. Do it for 90 days.

And if you hate it,

quit.

But after but what I've been doing this for 30 years. When I get people to do a budget for 30 days, they feel like they got a raise. It increases the quality and the depth of the communication in their marriage. They feel like they got traction towards their goals. They feel in control. Their anxiety goes down over money. I mean, all because of a budget.

Well, before you think there's like the boogeyman exists with your money, like where is it going and I don't want to look? And then you just finally look and you go, "Okay, we can solve this problem now that we actually looked at it." >> Well, I mean, like, where's all our money going? Oh, wait. There it is. It's going out to eat. >> So, you can't complain about feeling that way if you haven't actually done a budget. >> Try it. Worst thing can happen is you hate it because where you are sucks. So,

you might as well change where you are.

>> It's the old political thing. They say, "Are you better off than you were four years ago?" Try that with a budget. Are you better off than you were 90 days ago when you had no clue what was happening with your money? >> No. You're still sitting there like a hamster and a wheel. Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run. Get nowhere.

Kim is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Kim. How are you?

>> Hi. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so just my question is my husband and I were missionaries. Um, and we came back to the States to give birth. Um, and wound up having a medical

emergency while we were out of state.

who we had estate insurance and we were visiting my husband's family. Wound up giving birth to my son early and he was

in the NICU for a month. I was in the hospital two weeks leading up to that.

Um and because we were out of state, even though we had emergency insurance from my coverage, it was still denied for everything. Um and so right now we're facing somewhere between four and $500,000 in in medical debt. Um, and

we're in the snowball staging right now.

>> Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop getting out of bed. Oh, just stop a second. I got to catch back up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you had you had a baby

>> that was in NICU and you were a missionary overseas, but you came back to the States and you're under you were under whose insurance? Your husband's >> a state just a normal state insurance.

>> State.

>> Yes. And because it was out of state, they wouldn't cover anything.

>> Yeah. Um, you know, we had the emergency insurance, so it should have been state.

What state is the insurance in?

>> Um, it was a Florida insurance.

>> Why did you not go to Florida to do the medical care?

>> We were um we were visiting my husband's family um who is from lives in a different state. So, we were just >> And there was a problem with the baby and they took the baby and put it in NICU. Yeah, >> it was an emergency and you didn't have the option to go to Florida.

>> Correct. >> I got you. Okay. And Florida's state insurance does not have that as a contingency for an emergency to save the

life of a child. >> It does. Yeah, it does. But through for

whatever reason, they're still denying all the coverage of it. We've appealed multiple times. >> Well, I think I think you need to get I think you need to get some professional representation then on that.

>> Okay. Yeah. Because I'm not going to I'm not going to set up two missionary kids with a kid in NICU to take care of a half million dollars >> uh worth of medical.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz I'm guessing you're poor as church mice.

>> Yeah. >> I mean I never met rich missionaries.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> They don't they don't I just hadn't run into them. So you're not probably not sitting on a half million in your mutual fund. I'm guessing. >> No, not at all. >> All right. So, I think you got to f solve this by throwing this back onto the Florida system. And so, what you need to do is you need to get in touch with uh your state senators and state

representatives and with the governor's office in Florida. Um, and and start

hassling your politicians.

>> Okay?

You remember the story where uh that

Jesus told of the woman who would not be denied? She just kept knocking on the door. Knocking on the door, knocking on the door, knocking on the door.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. That's you.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz you don't have a half million dollars and you're not going to see a half million dollars anytime soon. So, you've got to solve this through >> uh political pressure and or legal pressure, maybe an attorney. Um because

that's that if they pick up their part, what they're supposed to pick up here, it's going to change your whole life. Agreed.

>> Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure.

Definitely. >> Have you talked to the administration at the hospital? They don't even do it.

>> Yeah. So, they um they said that once the third because I guess there's a rule with insurance companies that once you get three denials, it's like there's no possibility of getting it covered. So that they won't let us um apply for the financial aid until we get that third denial from the insurance. >> Yeah. You're not going to get a third denial. You're gonna get it covered.

>> Yeah. Exactly. I've been really scared.

>> Yeah. You have to scared to go through that third one. >> Don't worry about You don't have anything for them to take.

>> Yeah. >> So you're okay. Okay. They don't repo

babies, so you're okay. How is your baby? How are they doing?

>> He's doing amazing now. The Lord definitely healed him. um while he was in the NICU and surprised all the doctors on how quickly he recovered. So >> yeah. So are y'all out of the hospital everything now? Is it all behind you?

>> Yeah, you're the everything but the bill. >> Yeah. So So you're not Are you in North Carolina still?

>> Yeah, we're in North Carolina now. Um just we're about to launch back out to to our country in a week that we serve in over in Southeast Asia. So >> Okay. All right. Well, you you have you have a new hobby.

>> Yeah. >> It's the state of Florida.

>> Okay. >> Really? I want you to become an expert on hassling politicians and insurance

commissioners and getting uh an

attorney. Uh are you serving with a missionary organization?

>> Yes, we are. >> Okay. Talk to the U senior people in

that organization and see if they have anybody on staff that does legal work.

Okay. >> And see if you can get an onstaff attorney to start hassling Florida.

>> Okay. Yeah, I know we don't have that.

So, well, it would definitely be all on us. >> Uh, let me try one more time. Okay.

You're serving with a missionary organization.

How many people serve in the mission field with this organization?

>> Um, around 300.

>> Okay. Probably some of the host churches, the support churches then have

an attorney who's hanging around that church, goes to church there, who would love to help a young missionary couple

>> get rid of a half million dollar problem.

>> Yeah, that's definitely a great idea.

>> Yeah. And so, let's talk to some of the senior pastors, uh the uh church board

members, whatever we want to call the the leadership, the deacons, the leadership team of those particular churches and say, "Hey, got a young missionary couple serving in in Southeast Asia. Uh, we got a niku problem. Uh, we need some of the big boys to come in and help here. We need we need a little legal SWAT team.

>> And uh, I think you can put But that's your job is put all that together rather than sit and watch this thing

deteriorate before your eyes and oh, it's third denial and the third denial is the final denial and nothing can happen after that. Oh, bull.

>> Channel your inner Dave. Bull.

>> Persistence. Be resourceful. cause problems. >> It's what Dave's been doing for 30 years. >> George >> worked out. >> George, it's a spiritual game.

>> Wheel gets the grease is all I'm saying.

And Dave's been squeaky. You got to get squeaky to get this done.

>> You You just called me squeaky. You did.

>> You've been called worse today if I'm going to be honest.

>> You've been reading the comments again, haven't you, George? I told you quit reading the comments. >> It's the only enjoyment I get out of life, Dave. >> Man, the trolls. You know, I don't try to please the masses cuz I'm well aware the M is silent. This is the Ramsey Show.

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The Ramsey Show. Question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. Feeling stuck with defaulted private student loans? Why refi can

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Justin in Minnesota.

Many people think that for a person to become wealthy, other people must lose wealth because it's a limited pie that is sliced up unequally. I think wealth can be created through innovation, for example, and therefore not limited. What is your opinion of this?

>> Well, Justin, you would be correct.

>> This is a great philosophical.

>> The pi theory is someone that is

ignorant of basic economics.

The size of the economy shrinks. That's

called recession.

Grows.

Grows too fast and too much. It's called inflation.

The economy is constantly growing in size. The number of dollars moving

around the economy today is way different than it was in 1776, darling.

So this idea that we've simply been swapping of the size slices of the pie around since 1776, we would all still be living in log cabins shooting musketss,

that's dumb. Okay. Obviously the

economy, the size of it changes. So you don't if if someone that believes that by taking by getting money that someone else is being taken from automatically

is a fixed pieor and it just shows ignorance of economics. So simple. A good way to explain I love Rabbi Lapen's picture. It's one of my favorites of all times on this. He said the economy and

he's an Orthodox Jewish rabbi wrote a wonderful book called Thou Shalt Prosper about prosperity. He said the and he addresses this exact issue. He says the economy is not a pie where if you get a

bigger slice, someone else gets a smaller slice. The e the economy is more like a candle. When you light it, it

doesn't take away from yours. It just adds light and so the economy because

money moves just exactly like that. You can show you can show several examples

uh on how money actually grows. So Justin, you're right. Innovation isn't a good example of that. And so money is literally created uh and no one is the lesser for it. Now

if you if there were only two people on the planet when I took when George took some of my money, I would have less. He would have more >> if we both placed a bet and I was right and Dave gives me his money. He lost, I win. >> That's where that would make sense.

>> Exactly. >> But the stock market is different. If an Apple share goes up in value because the company is worth more and they make great products, nobody lost in that scenario. >> It's because they sold more of those little iPhone thingies.

Hello. And that's where why Apple has um you know more money than Egypt, literally.

um it's pretty crazy. Yeah. But that's it. And so it it's economies are created. And you can also another place to look at that I'm Egypt made it come to mind but not picking on Egypt that's just a joke but it's also happens to be statistically true. Uh but the um if you

go to a country that is underdeveloped

that has a weak economy

um what is the difference in that and a what we call a developed country where it has a strong and booming economy.

It's not that one of them was issued a larger pie by God.

It's that the booming economy grew

by innovation, by industriousness,

by service, by whatever it is they're doing. Uh, and it causes the dollars or the the currency >> and the GDP will expand, >> the GDP, the gross domestic product, which is the total of all goods and services sold in an economy. And so and

and that's why some of these comparisons by some of these wealth equality people are the people like they're arguing back during Obamacare. They're arguing about well Norway has free health care. Well

the Norway's economy is the size of Atlanta's.

It's not it's not even in the same ballpark. It's like tricycles go slower than motorcycles too, honey. So I mean it's like no kidding. It's a different thing.

They don't even belong in the same sentence. That again just shows the sheer freaking ignorance of people on basic econ economic stuff. Well, Norway has free healthcare. Well, so does Mury'sboro, Tennessee.

I mean, no, it doesn't. But I mean, good God, that doesn't even show up, y'all. I mean, come on. So, it's the same kind of thing that goes on.

hope versus hopelessness.

Is scarcity mentality versus abundance

mentality. The people that that Justin

that that are coming at you with this, they're they have Eeyore as their spirit animal. It's like, oh, it's bad. It's always going to be bad. It's always been bad. The little man can't get ahead cuz

the big guy's taking all the pie and

there's perpetual freaking whining. It's

unbelievable.

Instead of getting up, throwing your shoulders back, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. Shut up.

>> So, it's basically I'm broke because other people are rich and >> I because I refuse to actually look at the real problem, which is the guy in my mirror. You know, it's like I'm gonna blame Dunkin Donuts because I have a belly because I can't stay away from their donuts. It's not Dunkin Donuts fault. It's Dave's fault. He eats too many freaking donuts. That's Dave's fault. You know, there's a reason I don't look like Mr. Universe. And it's not Dunkin Donuts fault.

>> Depends what Universe >> or Well, well, that's true. But Crispy Cream either, by the way. So, we'll just be a multiple. >> It's their fault for making addictive products. >> You know, it's their fault. They made an addictive product. All that sugar just made me want to stand over there every time the hot light comes on. Oh my god.

Am I a victim of this? No. Okay. So, me

too, boys and girls. Me, too. But you need to decide who you're going to blame in this because it's the difference between uh scarcity mentality and

abundance mentality. It's the difference between fixed pie and candles. It's the difference between uh hopelessness and hope. It's the difference between victor and victim. And all of these things line up and those things make you are are the things that going to make you successful or not successful. Not the fact that someone got yours so you can't get it out of the little fixed pie. I think I need a cheesecake now.

>> I think I'm getting hungry thinking about all this. >> Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of food in this all these analogies. >> The the extension of this is should billionaires exist? I've seen this come about. Well, billionaires just should not exist, Dave. Apparently, once you hit 999 million, that's it. You're fine.

You're a good person. Once you hit billionaire, apparently you become a terrible, awful human being. Is it true?

>> I thought I thought it was millionaire, but um I mean I've heard the game. Yeah.

It's like wealth is evil.

>> No, it's not. People are stupid.

Wealth is not evil. Well, money is just like a brick. You can build a hospital with it or you can throw it through a window. The brick doesn't care. But when you have put it in the hands of a human being, you discover whether that human being is a or not. You discover whether they're a jerk or not. You discover whether they're a sweet, giving, generous person or not. When you hand people money, it doesn't it doesn't cause them to become something. It reveals who they already are. Well, money ruined my children. No, darling.

Your children were already idiots. You handed them money and proved it.

>> It just lets them that fire added gasoline on. >> That's not I mean it's not it. That's just ridiculous. So this idea that, you know, somehow wealth is evil. Well, I

mean, the Bible says that money is the root of all evil. See, that's what happens if you get your theology off a tick tock. The Bible does not say that.

It says the love of money is the root of

all evil, which is an indication not of anything about money or amounts of money. It's an indication of the character of the individual that touched it. So if you're going to practice dadgum Christian doctrine, actually learn it before you open your mouth.

God, this stuff is so aggravating to me.

And so this this idea that somehow someone has done something wrong in America because they went and helped a lot of people and made a lot of money in the process. No one was pissed off when I sold a $12 book called Financial Peace out of the back of my car and I sold 10 of them and I was starving to death.

When I sold 10 million of them, somehow people got pissed off. Now you're greedy, Dave. >> Now I'm greedy and I take advantage of poor people. Oh my god. See, this is the problem. If you ever read comments, if you read the comments after articles, you know why some species kill their young. >> So, oh my gosh. Open phones here. That's

how that wraps that little rant up.

>> Sorry to wind you up. I just wound them up and I shouldn't have given me caffeine and a good and a good subject.

There we go. >> I'll get you a donut for the next hour.

>> Oh, I'll feel so much better.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they

love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number is8255225.

Patrick is in Boston. Hey, Patrick. How are you?

>> I'm doing great, sir. It's a pleasure to speak with you. >> You, too. What's up?

>> Well, sir, uh 2 years ago, uh got divorced and um the house was kind of

left in limbo. Uh didn't sell it. Uh I

couldn't buy my ex-wife out of the house. She couldn't buy me out. So, the deal was that I basically stay in the house um until either I sell it or our

son comes of age. and I I'm kind of

stuck between whether I should sell the house now because it does have some equity in it or if I stay in the house,

I owe her half of the proceeds of the sale and I'm just not sure whether I

want to be giving her all of those all that equity that I'm putting into the house at this point. >> Yeah. Every repair you do, she gets half of. Every payment you pay, she gets half of. This is not a good deal for you.

>> Yeah. and it's something I've been thinking about for a little while. Um, and there's plenty of equity in the house uh to to give her right now.

>> I would sell it. >> So, all right.

>> The sooner you sell, the less damage you're doing by paying more of her share

>> that or refinance it and buy her out.

Can you refinance and get a mortgage and pay out her half?

>> Uh, it's possible. I, you know, since rates went up, I haven't really looked into that very deeply, but that's certainly a possibility.

>> Well, do you want to stay there? >> Yeah. What's the Do you want the house?

>> Uh, to to be honest, no. I I don't want to stay here. I'm not from New England.

Okay. >> Originally, and I would like to leave.

So, that's also something I've been thinking about, but >> that's fairly easy. Then it becomes a no-brainer.

>> I would do it as soon as possible. And if uh you you need a guy you can trust, a gal you can trust, you can go to ramiesolutions.com/agent.

And those are the folks in your area who we trust, who we vet to help you with these transactions. >> Ron is in Indianapolis. Hey, Ron.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. Uh, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> I uh a quick background. I'm um 74 years

old, active. Uh refused to quit working.

I got about four streams of income coming in. >> But I'm late to the party. I uh I do have a paid for rental house. I've got a 30 $38,000 in a helock on my on my

primary residence and I've only got $22,000 in my IRA.

I've got about $1,800 in savings. Um so,

uh I have $4,100 in a credit card.

Besides the helock, the credit card will be paid off in September. >> What do you make?

Um, I make between 58 and six grand a

month. >> Okay. All right. Well, I would plow through the credit card and the helock and build your emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then start investing for retirement.

>> Okay. So, that that was one of my questions. I should pay off the heliloc uh and not do investing and heloc.

>> No, you should get rid of the helock and the credit card first as fast as you can. I mean, really, really, really fast. like living on beans and rice fast.

>> Well, I'm hoping I'll have that paid off by September, the credit card, and then I'm I'm hoping to uh I I was thinking I

should build my emergency fund >> after the HELOC's done.

>> After the HELOC, what's the balance on the helock? Just 20 grand, wasn't it?

>> 38. >> 38 600.

>> Yeah. And you're making, you know, you're making 70 or 80,000 a year. I I would knock that thing out like it was a credit card.

>> Okay. And then you'd be 100% debtree house and everything, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And then you build your emergency fund and then you start investing into retirement. >> That's exactly what I would do in that situation. >> And time is of the essence. I mean, you're 74. I want to see you retire with dignity one day when you can't work. I know you're choosing to work right now, which is cool, but one day, you know, you might not be able to, and I want to see you with no payments. >> Yeah, that helock being gone is a big deal here. It's a really big deal.

George is in San Diego. Hey, George.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey, how you doing? >> Hey, how can we help?

>> Hey, so um I'm just looking over my finances the other day and uh let me speaker. And uh me and my wife, we just got to a point where we're making $100,000 a year after taxes

and um we have

no money really to do anything. It seem it feels like uh we only have a couple of bills, a couple of hard costs, and then all of our fixed costs um like you know, living, gas, uh groceries, etc. Um

pretty much take up everything. And um

I'm wondering what what would you how do I look at this? How do I look at this?

cuz I what I think of, you know, we're making $100,000 um about $8,000 a month when you average it all up and we're still not able it feels like we're still kind of living paycheck to paycheck. Is that normal or is there What should I be looking at here to uh >> Well, you're you've got an idea in your head, but you're not doing a written plan.

This is all in your head.

And so you need a detailed written budget that you and your spouse

both agree to. And then you need to stick to it. Then you'll figure out where the money's going and figure out what the problem is.

There's no outside forces here that are conspiring against you.

>> So, how much are your pay how much is your house payment?

>> Well, right now, so we we just moved out of the place we were currently living at uh a couple of weeks ago. We're staying at uh my wife's mom's for three months.

>> Wow. And um and right now because we we

were we got put in a weird situation. We rented from a subleasase uh landlord um

and then three >> Okay. So what are you going to do for housing?

>> Well, for right now we're staying here. We're paying 500 bucks a month. >> I know. But you're not going to stay there long.

>> No, we want to be out of here 3 months maximum. >> Okay. What are you going to do at the end of three months?

>> Right now we're we're searching pretty much every day on Zillow >> for a purchase or a rental. and a dog

rental. >> Okay. And what do you think your rental is going to run >> right now? I mean, for what we're looking for, um, we're I mean, everything that we see is going to be in the 3500 at a bare minimum um to 4,000

range. >> You can't do that on $8,000.

>> That's half of your take. >> You can't You cannot have a rent payment that's half of your take-home pay. It's not sustainable.

What's a healthy percentage?

>> 25%.

>> Two grand. >> I don't think you could. Yeah. So, we were paying we were paying 25 >> uh we had a one-bedroom, 600 square foot

>> Mhm. >> you know, small place.

>> Here's the thing. You have $100,000 to work with.

The math doesn't change just because you

live in an expensive area.

you you know you still are constrained by that. You still are going to be broke your whole life and struggling and stressed out if you take a rental payment that's 50% of your take-home pay. You've got to get it down towards that 25% mark. If you can't, then that means you can't afford to live in the area you're looking in. You need to move further out, increase the income.

George, go to everydoll.com, list out that income, list out every single expense, and you'll figure out real quick where it's all going and what you need to do. >> It's not sustainable.

You don't get a pass on math because you live in San Diego. This is the Ramsey Show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Bill is with us in San Diego. Hi, Bill. How are you?

>> Bill, hello, Bill. >> Here. >> Hey, how are you? How can we help?

>> I am good. How are you? >> Good. How can we help today, sir?

>> All right. So, uh, my wife and I combined, we make about 5 to 600 000 a

year but uh we still somehow are unable

to save as much as I believe we should save. So our you know so that's my

problem. I mean our monthly expenses are about $30,000 a month and uh you know

then add taxes to that. So we pretty much even out every year and I believe when we make $5 to $600,000 a year we should be able to save more.

>> I would agree. I think the $30,000 a month expense is your clue.

>> How much of that is debt payments?

>> Uh well, it's on two properties. One is

primary residence and one is an investment property. And the debt payments uh on the mortgage are uh added to about uh $12,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Why do you need $18,000 a month to

run your household?

Uh well about $8 to $9,000

go to charity uh for a good cause and then the rest like I would say about $10,000 is uh for

groceries um utilities

uh for the car payment and uh a little

bit for uh you know towards the >> Why do you have car payments when you make $600,000 a year?

Say that again. >> Why would you have a car payment when you make $600,000 a year?

>> Well, we uh one of the car is paid off or the other one it's a lease. So, we make about $750 a month for that one cuz

we have a bigger family, five people.

So, you know, it's a a relatively bigger SUV. >> Well, which you could have written a check and purchased

>> and should have instead of leasing and renting your car for $700 a month. Okay.

So, um, yeah,

you're giving away $100,000 a year in that $30,000 a month budget. You said 8 to $10,000.

>> So, there's where $100,000 of it goes,

>> right? >> Uh, yeah. Easy. Yeah. Could be more than that. 100 to$120. Yeah.

>> Mhm. Okay. And, um, you know, and you've

got a car payment. Um, yes. and which we

would not have. Um,

uh, and what do you guys do for a living?

>> I, uh, own a business and my wife, uh,

works with a, uh, with a company. She makes about 100,000 and the rest is my income. And I, I own a service business, service based business.

>> Okay. All right. Um,

the way you're discussing this, the language you're using is very uh general.

It's not precise about the numbers, which tells me you're kind of just throwing this over there and then just shocked that it disappeared. So, um, if

I woke up in your shoes, you've got a level of disgust says this is not okay is what you're saying. We make this kind of money. We shouldn't have no money. We should know a car payment when we make 600 grand. We should have just bought the car. Um,

then what I would do is simply do a

detailed budget with your spouse and come into

agreement of what we want to give, what

we want to save, and what we want to

spend and what we want to spend it on.

And every month before the month begins, every dollar has an assignment. Exactly.

But it kind of feels like, Bill, uh, I went through a period of time in my life where I thought I could out earn my stupidity, my lack of organization, my lack of detail. And you can't.

If you had a person working in your business that was managing a section of your business as poorly as you are managing your finances, you would fire them for incompetence.

And so you got to kind of treat it that way from an emotional standpoint and do a detailed budget. >> And it's funny, Dave, as people make more, especially people who are good at making money, like Bill's good at making money, you're good at making money, you think you can just solve the problem by, well, I'll just make more money as long as we don't overdraft, we're doing okay.

But when you do that budget, you realize if this was a business, you go, we are wasting a lot of money in this business.

We could be doing a lot better if we cut the spending, get out of this debt. We might need to sell this investment property. It's not a blessing right now.

might need to downshift some of our giving a little bit until we get back on track. So that's the kinds of things you would the levers you'd be pulling if this was a business. You need to treat your household the same way. >> Yeah. Every you know, you need to detail it out and then stick to it and both of

you you and your wife have an agreement.

You're both looking at it. You're not bringing it in, slapping it down on the table and declaring, "I have done a budget. You people will live on it." That won't work. No. You get your wife involved in the disgust. It's not okay that we make this much money and we have no money. It's not okay that we make this much money and we don't invest. Um, so generosity is awesome. Investing is

amazing. Enjoying money, yes, you

should. All three things, but very,

very, very, very, very, very intentional. And right now, you're not intentional.

You're kind of throwing a bail of dollars over the fence and then coming back to see what's left later. M >> and after the family devour it. And so

um it may be you downshift your giving.

Your giving is pretty heavy. I'm not against generosity in any form. I tell

folks to do it all the time. Um but if you're doing zero investing and you're giving 20%. Uh you may need to adjust

that at least temporarily. But I think you got some lifestyle issues and I think you guys just kind of walk around do whatever you want because you make enough money. And I think if you'll just actually pay attention and say, "No, we're not doing that. No, that's crazy.

That that's a that's a we we're spending what on that?" Yeah. And you start actually telling the money what to do.

You'll very naturally uh tighten this up

a little bit. Dne is in Houston, Texas.

Hi, Dane. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing good, Mr. Randy. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So me and my wife, I'm the only one that works out of the family.

We got two kids. Only debt we have is our house. We owe about $141,000 on it. And we were going to continue paying towards the house and paying it off sooner. But we were wondering, should we sell the house and move farther in away from Galveston Bay or

our insurance ain't so expensive? My flood insurance is about 3,000 a year.

homeowners with fires about 2,000 and my windstorms around 1,500.

Should we sell the house what that we have a 2.7% interest on and move further in for a more expensive house with a higher interest rate or stay?

>> Well, in a sense, you have a high interest rate now because you have a hurricane tax.

>> That's true. >> In a sense, um uh because of the

location of the property. Um >> Yes, sir. You know, I I uh

it's causing you pain. I can you it's causing which because you ask the question, well, I mean, the only thing wrong with moving is that you're going to not going to get the same rate next time. Well, whoopity dupy. When rates come down, you can refinance. We b we marry the house, we date the rate. So, rates are temporary.

>> Yes, sir. >> And if you're going to pay pay this thing off in the next few years, if it's at 140 and you go, we're going to aggressively get this thing down to zero in the next 5 years, the interest rate is not going to matter that much.

Right. Yeah. We planned on paying the house off that we're in now, but in the next 5 to 10 years. >> Yeah. And if you bought one the similar price range, you could do the same thing, but you didn't have all the insurance cost, >> right? >> So, I wouldn't go just upgrading and house and get a way more expensive house and get a way bigger mortgage just to get out of this tax and insurance.

>> It's not necessary. Um, yeah, buy a similar price range. If your payment goes up a little, so what? But I'd buy a similar price range and make the move.

Here's the way the best way to handle this sometimes is look

out 10 years, 20 years

>> and say, "Where do I want to be?" >> Okay. If you if you have this house paid for 20 years from now, what is that insurance cost going to do? It's going to go up every year.

>> Yes, sir. >> Or it's even going to be worse. It's going to be like Florida. It's going to be hard to get at all.

>> Right. >> Right. Um and this and the house is

going to go on up in value. There's no question about that. But you live in this constant, you're in a storm zone is what it amounts to. So 10 years from now, if you move inland and you pay it off, you're going to have more normal taxes, more normal insurance, and you're going to see appreciation just as well.

So where do you want to live 10 years from today with a paid for house?

That'll answer your question. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Applause]

[Music]

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[Music]

Thank you for joining us, America. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, is my co-host

today. Stacy's in Houston. Hi, Stacy.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. How are you doing? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Praise God. Um, so I just had a question. Um, we are in baby step two

right now. I just came across your your website and and your YouTube channel and everything. And so we are in baby step uh two. However, I had a huge question about my vehicle. Um, I have my husband.

He owns his work car, but we are paying on my vehicle, and we're wondering, just based off of everything that I've seen with your videos, we're wondering if we should get rid of that car. Like, if we should um yeah, somehow get rid of the one that I have.

>> Well, welcome to the tribe.

>> Hi. >> Yeah. So, it's it's been tight around there, and it's not been fun lately, huh?

>> No, it has not been fun. Definitely not.

Uh we've I feel like we've been married for 5 years now going to six. Um and we

always struggled with money and so actually uh we did download your every dollar app and through that app we have noticed that the big mistake that we're

making is that we're spending more than what he makes. And so we were actually able to see how much money he actually makes in a month. And it's like well you know we're broke because we want to be broke. So, we're really tying everything down. We're both on board. And so, um, I

feel like this is the best way that I can >> You're both on board. I heard that, right? >> Yes. Definitely. Yes, we are.

>> You started out with I download the thing and then you went to later on in the conversation, we did the app together. So, it does sound like you're both on board. I'm good with that. Okay.

>> So, I'm proud of you.

So, what do you owe on the car?

>> So, right now we owe um 28355.

>> Have you looked up what it's worth?

>> It is worth No, I have not actually.

>> Okay. Go to kellybluebook kbb.com. It's

probably the most accurate. You can also look at Edmonds for car values. Those are two good places to get values. They put out two types of values on there.

trade in, which is wholesale, what a dealer would give you for it, which obviously they're going to make a profit on that number. And then private sale,

which is if you put it in traders or something like that and or Craigslist or whatever, and you sold it yourself to an an individual to individual, and that's more of a closer to a retail number. The third number is retail, which you can't get because you're not a dealer. Um, but your probably private sale number is what you're looking at. What kind of car is it? What is it?

It's a 2023 Volkswagen Tiguan. Small

SUV. >> Okay. All right. Nice car. All right.

And uh what's your household income?

>> It is um

Well, kind of depends. Right now he's making um

Right now he's making about I mean worst case a week it's 1,881

but it's looking more like 2394.

It depend his hours are different. So I >> So if you get if he gets OT he gets a couple grand a week.

>> Yes he does. We're talking about six figures at least. >> So he's making 70 $80,000 a year depending on overtime.

>> Yes. I mean up to 100 but probably not getting 2k every week. Okay.

>> Okay. >> That's takehome though but isn't it?

>> Yes, this is take home. >> Okay. That's that's good news. >> What other debt do you have?

>> So we have let's see. So we have the uh

we have one credit card that has 867 on

it. Uh we have a loan our AC busted. We

had to redo the unit and that right now the balance is 2015.

We owe my dad uh 10,630, the car

payment, and the house. >> Okay, that'll do it. If I woke up in

your shoes, yes, I would sell this car,

>> right? >> You're right. It's the one thing on the list that just screams at me in your numbers like it did at you when you wrote it down, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> It's one of the only things you can sort of undo in this mess.

>> Yeah. The rest of it, you're going to have to claw through and live on beans and rice. Rice and beans. You've heard that already on the website. Didn't take you long to get to that number.

>> And scorched earth. We don't eat out unless we're working in that restaurant. We don't see the inside of it. We're not going on vacation. He's picking up all the OT he can. You're selling so much stuff the kids think they're next. And you're going to get this mess cleaned up.

>> Yeah. And here's the beautiful part with the numbers you just gave me. If he can get more overtime rather than less, and you sell this car, you're debtree in a year.

>> Yeah. Um actually I was going down the numbers and we went at it like a gazelle

running from the hunter. I mean uh we we put God above everything else as well and that really spoke to us and we've been you know studying the Proverbs uh scripture that you mentioned in the video with the baby steps. And so um we're looking at paying two of these loans or two of these debts. We're paying these off by the beginning of November.

>> Yeah. >> So yeah, this is great. And then my the loan that we have with my dad that's and you know everything is great there with the family but we do need to pay this back obviously. Yeah.

>> Um he says to take our time but we need to get it out. >> I want it out of my life. I want it's weighing on you more than >> because you've already breathed in the air of what it's going to feel like to have no payments. You can already get your head around those emotions right now.

And now you want it.

You're doing great. You're going to kill it. This is awesome. Yeah. Sell the car.

Yeah. Cuz a car, listen, you get you another car later, whatever you want.

But if you'll drive like no one else and you'll live like no one else later, you can live like no one else and you'll get to drive like no one else.

>> That's right. >> Stacy, I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It comes with three months of Every Dollar Premium, so you can connect it to your bank. You can track all of your expenses with smart tracking.

It'll make it real easy for you guys to do this journey. And I hope the book is an encouragement to you. Uh, but you guys are already there. I mean, the fact the way she's talking, this debt might as well already be paid off.

It is so interesting, George, that over the 30 plus years of doing this that I talk to somebody making $200,000 a year and they got $40,000 worth of debt. They don't think they can do it. >> And I talked to somebody with $100,000 worth of debt that makes $60,000 a year and they think they can do it >> and they actually do and they're the ones that actually do it. And so she's her numbers are excellent, but what's much better than her numbers are her is her language.

>> It's the it's revealing her heart and and where they are.

She's been diving in. She's studying the stuff already. I mean, she's brand new to Ramsey stuff and she's already spouting that like she knows it all. So, >> well, there's two pieces that were encouraging.

Number one, she looked in that financial mirror. They actually did the budget and they went, "Oh crap, we're spending more than we make. That makes sense. That's how we got here.

We got to do something about that." And the other one was the language of just belief that it wasn't someone else's fault. It's not all their fault, but it's their responsibility to pick up the pieces and clean up this mess.

What are you going to do when you have an oh crap moment?

>> What is your first response? Is it to blame others, to get angry, to whine? Or do you go, "All right, let's get the budget out. Let's see what we're working with here." And she finally got to that point. Most people never get there.

>> Yeah. >> Or it takes 20 years of >> marriage. Sometimes when you have a moment like that, you freeze from just fear or being stuck or whatever. and

other people they go into attack mode.

She's like, "I got to find this out. I got to work this. I got to get this. Got to b and this is what you said to do. Do when you do this and all she want was one little clarification on the car, but she's already game on, you know, and

>> she found that like little kernel of hope and just hung on to it and it's starting to grow and she's seeing this light at the end of the tunnel. That's the best part." >> Yeah.

Proverbs says, uh, when desire comes, it

is the tree of life. Yeah. Wow. It's

powerful. >> Not much stopping you there. Once you get that desire, it's powerful. It'll carry you. >> What are you going to do when you have an old crap moment? What's your next step? Well, start gathering information,

fix the problem. Gather information, fix the problem. Well, I don't care what the moment, what area of your life the moment is in. Could be money. It could be something else. What are you going to do?

Got to gather information. I got to fix the problem. Because the information I had before brought me to this oh crap moment. I got to stop using that same information. This is the Ramsay show.

[Music]

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[Music]

George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host Gordon is in Seattle, Washington. And hi Gordon, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. Yeah. Um, thank you for taking my call and I appreciate all that you teach. >> Thank you. >> Uh, just wanted Yeah, just wanted to uh

get your advice on some um problems.

Well, not problems, but decisions going to make. So, I'm on step two. um getting

ready to liquidate my aftert tax investment account, clean out my savings besides the uh thousand baby emergency

fund to attack some personal loans. My

question to you is um would it be worth

it to uh take a loan out of my 401k just

to clear out all the personal loans uh since the interest on the 401k loan is

essentially paid to myself. Yeah.

No.

Um, how much debt do you have?

>> Uh, personal loans about 22,000 and then

student loans about 30,000.

>> Okay. And how much are all these after tax investments going to create when you liquidate them?

>> Uh, only about 6,000 and another six or

seven in savings.

>> Okay. >> So, it brings your debt down to 40 >> from from 52. Yeah. So, you got 40,000

in debt. What's your household income?

>> Uh, right around 155 before tax.

>> Good. Okay. All right. The problem with a 401k loan is severalf. One is, yes,

you do pay yourself back the interest, but you unplug that portion of the investment from the mutual funds that would have been earning you 12 this year, maybe even more percent. So, maybe you would have made 15, but you paid yourself five instead. Uh, bad idea.

Number one. Number two, when you leave the company, and you will leave the company, uh, when you die, when you get

a better job, or when they fire you, you will leave the company. Okay? Uh, and if

that loan is still in place at that time, it's becomes due in full. If you

do not pay it off in 60 days, it's considered an early withdrawal with all the taxes and penalties. So that is

leaves you very very vulnerable. It's a really bad loan. Um and so and you've

still got $40,000 to pay off regardless of what we do making 155 which you ought

to do in what, like a year.

>> Yes. If I return >> Yeah. If you do if you get on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you tear into it, it sounds like you've studied our stuff and you're doing, you know, you're cleaning out everything. You're leaving $1,000. you're going to stop adding to the 401k. Yes, I would do that. U but we

never tell people to borrow on a 401k ever. I don't even offer the borrowing option to our team. >> Couldn't do it if you wanted to here, which is good. Stop people from doing >> not available. Just not available just because I'm not going to participate you doing something stupid. It's that simple. So, um the uh but no, I I that's

the problems with it is you you're going to get you you just leave yourself very very vulnerable as opposed to a regular loan, so to speak. I mean, if you went and got just another loan at the bank for 40,000 and paid off and cleaned them up, but you've got one big loan instead at 5%. You know, that would be okay because you don't have all these other problems. You didn't unplug an investment that might have made you 12 or 15 and you didn't leave yourself open to penalties and taxes in the event you leave that particular position.

because other I mean pretend somebody came along offered you double income.

You got to think about not taking that because you got these open handcuffs that you've created.

>> Yeah, that's that's what people do. They go, "Oh, I I was gonna take that better job, but then I had borrowed up my 401 and I was going to get hammered." >> So, yeah, that that's what you don't want to do, Gordon. So, >> this is gone in less than a year. I mean, if you make 155 after taxes, let's call it, you know, 110, you can live off 60 and pay off 50 in a year. And so,

it's gone. >> Yeah. It's a $40,000 and you're probably going to add to your income and you're probably going to find some other stuff to sell. Maybe it's 14 months, maybe it's 15 months, maybe it's 9 months, I don't know, but it's somewhere in that range. It's not a >> fiveyear issue. Yeah. >> And I wouldn't put all of this other stuff at risk for that. And so, no, I've never told anybody to do that.

>> And folks, it's a good idea just aside from Gordon's question, let's just sidebar a second, George.

The thing that we have figured out at Ramsey that a lot of people in the financial world are now acknowledging because we've made such a big footprint in the space. But but most of the people

when I was growing up in the financial world, we thought all this was a math problem. It's all about the math.

>> Well, hey, the interest is higher here.

Why wouldn't I do this with lower interest? >> All I got to do is fix the math and I'm going to be okay. And what I've discovered in 35 years of doing this is it's not a math problem. It's a me problem. It's 80% personal finances, 80%

behavior and 20% head knowledge. Now,

why does that matter? Well, if you fix the math and you don't fix the behavior, you're going to be right back in the soup. That's why debt con solidation

doesn't work. That's why we call it a con because you move all your debt from one place over to another into one big loan. In this case, he's using a 401k to do it. Now, in his case, it doesn't apply because he is actually changing.

He's he has changed what he's doing.

He's cleaning out these savings accounts. He's thinking about this. He's doing a budget. You can hear Gordon's really focused, right? So, this is not this is this particular part of the discussion does not apply to Gordon, okay? Because I think he's beyond that.

>> He's willing to make a lot of people that have called me over the years that want to do a debt consolidation on. I want to move my debt over here. First thing is the out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. The Bible says, and they say, "I paid off my debt." >> Put the debt consolidation. >> No, you didn't. You moved it.

>> You put it in the drunk drawer. >> You didn't pay it off. But what that tells me is is you took the pressure off of yourself and it's now okay because I paid it off. No, you didn't.

You moved it. And you still got the problem in your mirror. This person is

still not handling money. This person's still spending money like they're in Congress. They're not on a written plan.

This person in the mirror is still impulsive. This person in the mirror is still not working with their spouse.

They're still not thinking long term.

They're still doing a bunch of other stupid stuff. And so the debt's going to grow back. And we know from the debt consolidation industry that 88% of you,

that's nine out of 10 that take out a debt consolidation loan, your debt grows

back after you move it. So you end up with twice as much debt because you don't change the behaviors, habits, character issues that caused it in the first place. >> Yeah. And these are these are all shortcuts at the end of the day.

And it feels like you did something when you take a shortcut. But the problem is, like you said, you're going to be right back where you started. When people do these 401k loans or the helock or whatever the move is, they actually end up in the same place they were a year from now. >> Yeah.

>> Because the same person. And you've got to transform if you want to see different results. >> Yeah. And so, you know, the same thing happens with your marriage.

Okay?

have a certain set of behavior problems in their relationship. They get divorced

and go marry a new person with the exact

same set of issues and they didn't fix their own issues. So they dup they they just do it again because they thought that they thought the problem was that person and it wasn't. It was the issues that were not addressed the core things with you. >> And so yeah you the problem is you take you with you >> when you do all this stuff. And me too I'm the same thing. So the the beautiful thing that happened when Sharon and I went broke was we didn't have a choice.

We had to change. We didn't have any food. Electricity was cut off. We had to

change. We had to address the ridiculousness of our decision-making paradigms, our our ridiculous set of assumptions, our stupid intellectualizing of rationalizing ridiculous financial concepts with my intellect that absolutely caused me to lose everything cuz I'm an idiot. You know, I had to face all that. I didn't have a choice.

>> You ran out of shortcuts. >> There was not I was everything was gone.

I just left with this mirror, you know, and I'm stuck with me and I'm like, God,

you you are a problem. And the But the

beautiful thing about something that dramatic and traumatic is you you you come away from it change. You don't have a choice when you guys are just kind of everything's okay and nothing's smacking the crap out of you to get your attention. You don't have to face it.

And so our job here is to keep you from having those extreme experiences and instead letting you choose to face it rather than all your choices are taken away. >> Yeah. Be the preventative medicine.

>> That's how this whole thing works, guys.

That's why this Ramsay stuff works is we have figured out p the guy in your

mirror, the gal in your mirror is the problem. That's the bad news. The good news is they're the solution.

This is the Ramsey Show.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Open phones at triple8255225.

That's8 8255225.

Caleb is with us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Caleb, how are you?

>> Better than a sinner like myself deserves. Dave, how about yourself?

>> About the same, brother. What's up?

>> Well, uh, my wife and I are 25 years old. We've been married for 3 years now.

owned a home for the last year and we are $581,000

in debt >> including the house.

>> Including the house. >> How much of that's house?

>> 360.

>> Okay. And so you've got $170 in personal

>> uh 220 581 total. uh 360 on the house,

160 in federal student loans, 34 on two

cars, and 27,000 in a personal loan from

our plastic surgery that we did with our credit cards. >> Okay. What do you What do you guys make?

What's your household income?

>> Uh this year we're at 176,000 and salary

before a bonus for me. So, she makes 83.

I make about 93.

>> What are your careers?

She's a physical therapist and I'm a regulatory compliance person in clinical research. >> Gotcha. Okay. You're 25 years old and you got almost a $200,000 household income. >> Yeah. I've been pushing hard to get us Roth and eligible before we turn 30.

That's a goal of mine.

>> Yeah. Don't know that you need to worry about that considering the dad gum mess you've made. But yeah.

>> Yeah. I've definitely made a big one.

>> Yeah. So, how can we help? Well, I have an offer right now to buy my truck out for 4,000 over what I owe on it.

>> Should I apply the uh that four grand to

a couple of the small federal student loans that we have at 0% interest or throw it at the $27,000 personal loan at

13%. >> What are you going to drive after your truck's gone? >> Uh we have a little $3,000 beater car um

in our driveway. Uh we have two cars.

I'm sorry. We have three cars we owe on to. Okay. Okay, >> so you have a third little beater car that I can get around time with. >> Okay, that works. And then your next >> What's he apply to the surplus to, George? >> Well, that would go to your next smallest debt. So, when you look at the balances of everything, if you split everything out, individual cards, individual student loans, what is the next smallest balance?

>> Uh, we have a couple of federal student loans that are worth $1,000.

There's a couple of those. Okay. Okay.

>> Interest rate is not your problem. Lack of systems and processes and efficient

use of your money is your problem.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, we're going to get on a budget. We're going to live on beans and rice.

Rice and beans. You're going to act like you're a college student again and live on nothing. We're not going out to eat.

We're not going on vacation. We're going to take this fabulous income you have and clean up this fabulous mess you've made. >> Are you guys investing right now at all?

>> Uh, well, that's another question that I have. I would like to take advantage of the match that my new company has. Uh for >> No, you're broke. >> Don't take advantage of a match. >> You're broke. >> Okay. >> You're deeply in debt. You need to clean

up this mess.

You can't serve two masters. You can't.

A house divided against itself will fall. When you're trying to invest out of the one hand and pay off debt out of the other hand, neither one are done well. >> Okay? You'll be in debt for 20 years while you invested 3%. Neither are going to get you very far. >> You need to get really, really, really

angry and scared about this debt.

>> Where I am at. >> Yeah. And the two of you looking at it going yelling at it. You're going down,

right? I mean, you got to you got to get that kind of thing going and we're going to slice and dice to nothing. And the

bad news is you got a lot of debt and a big mess. The good news is you're both very bright people and you the both of you have studied and learned processes and systems in your academic life and have applied them in your career life.

So systems that are predict create predictable outcomes are your life. So,

if you will apply the system that we put in place to get you out of debt so that you become very, very wealthy within a decade, you will be able to use this fabulous income you have and clean up this mess in a lightning speed. You'll be amazed at how fast you clean it up.

>> With with that being said, Dave, who can I look to to find a financial mentor?

Because both of our sets of parents are not >> You don't need a mentor. You need a budget.

>> Okay, >> we got the plan. We're the mentors.

resources. You're not dumb. You're just trying to figure You just need a system.

>> Okay. >> Apply the We're going to show you the baby steps. You You're new to all this Ramsey stuff apparently, right?

>> Yeah. I I got the thousand done, but >> that's And then we're going to then we're going to work off the debt snowball, listing our debts, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything. Stop all investing.

Take lifestyle down to scorched earth and and squeeze every stinking dime out of your life and throw it at that smallest debt until it's gone. When that one's gone, get the next one. When that one's gone, get the next one. And what happens is your behavior gets more and more intense because hope is increased each time you have these traction points.

won't even feel like you're sacrificing, but your friends are going to think you've joined a cult.

>> Understood. >> That's how that's how that's how this works. It's a behavior mechanism. We're managing behavior because you've got the mathematics in front of you. You can see I can see $200,000 income including bonuses. A >> and I can see $200,000 in debt with the car gone. >> Okay. Not counting the house. How fast am I going to do that? Well, I'm going to do that in about 14 to 18 months.

>> And we're not even 27 yet.

>> Debtree. And if you're debtree making 200, you know how much you can invest then, dude? Dad gum.

>> A lot. >> I mean, debtree. the house, you know? I mean, the math on that, you're going to be so stinking wealthy, it's unbelievable.

But I got to get the impediment out of the way. I got to get the blockage cleared before we can call get the patient healthy so that he can run the dad gum triathlon. Okay? That's what we're after here.

>> And I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, Caleb, I wrote it with you in mind, >> the 25year-old who's going, I feel like the system's rigged against me. I make all this money. I don't know where it's going, and I feel like it's everyone else's problem.

Let's hold up the mirror and let's look at Caleb. What can Caleb do with his $200,000 income that he's giving away to lenders every month?" >> There we go. George is going to be your mentor. >> There we go. >> There we go. >> I will do it. And in fact, Caleb, uh, get in touch with our team, George.

>> Yes. Well, I'm going to put Caleb on my YouTube channel and show everyone that it can be done. >> Okay. Follow up with him. Follow.

>> We'll get your email, Caleb, and I'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. And if you're willing to let me be your mentor in front of a few hundred thousand folks, we can help a lot of people and show them by doing an actual budget what it's going to take for Caleb to get out of this mess.

>> You're gonna be like the before and after on Biggest Loser.

>> You might lose a George Camel in the process. That's not much.

>> Really? I mean, that's just like that's like not eating donuts for three.

>> Impressive. Dave could lose that tomorrow. >> Hey, >> you could. That's all I'm saying. He's got the discipline. >> Golly.

Wow. All right, hang on, Caleb. I think George is your mentor. I'm not sure.

>> He's not so sure. But yeah, >> I'm just wondering what I've signed you up for here, buddy. But >> well, the Caleb's out there. They fell for all the money traps. They went down the path everyone told them to go down.

Take out all the student loans you can get. Get a nice car payment. You work too hard. You deserve it. Get a big mortgage. I mean, he's the poster child for what's happened with the American dream. It's turned into the American nightmare. It's land of the free home of the broke out there. >> And then what do I do? Who do I turn to?

Neither one of my parents knew anything about it. My best my my high school counselor told me to go $160,000 in debt. >> My friends are all broke. They don't know. >> There we go. >> We'll show you the way, man. Hang on the line. We'll help you out. >> George, the youngest mentor. That's your >> I like that. The youngest mentor. That's your new book. This is the Ramsey Show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.

If you're thinking about buying a home or selling a home in this weird real estate market, you definitely need a high quality, high octane real estate agent in your corner. If you want to

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can select from among them who best to

help you with your next real estate transaction. Kim is with us. Kim is in

Cincinnati. Whoops. Whoops. Oops. Oops.

Oops. What am I doing? Where is she?

There's Kim. Kim is in Cincinnati. Hi, Kim. How are you?

>> Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Um Dave, this one's mainly for you. Um you have adult children. My husband and I are um it's about time where we kind of need to update our will, potentially change some things to payable on death, etc. Um we have two

young adult grown children, and

one party thinks that just leave everything to the children, they'll be fine. they'll know how to handle it.

They'll make good decisions. One is a little concerned that that might be a little too much, number one. And number two, um even though they're living, you

know, pretty frugal lives, if they're not doing some of the basic steps to

that we took to get us where we are, um

I I just don't know if that would be in their best interest. So, kind of wanted to And then you you had a call a couple months ago. It was either with Ken or John where it was about um you know parents trying to control adult children. That is not the case. I actually want to set them up for the best case scenario and have this be a blessing to them. So wanted to know your thoughts.

>> More money in anyone's life causes them to be more

of what they are good and bad.

disorganized person becomes chaotic and completely disorganized.

A generous person becomes generous.

A and it's very visible. A uh an angry

person becomes more angry. A depressed

person becomes more depressed.

A kind person and gentle person becomes

kinder and more gentle.

A uh and so on and so on. didn't I just didn't Yes, thank you. But I just didn't know if plopping a couple million into a 30-year-old's hands. >> There's nothing wrong with that if they have the character to carry it is what I'm saying. But if they're exhibiting

problems, if they're um you know, they're prone to

overspending and you plop a couple million in their hand, they're going to overspend.

>> Sure. Yeah. Not so much that, but just for example, like they're not even putting they're putting very very low percent into retirement for themselves.

>> Why? >> So, because that's what they're choosing to do. I don't And they've seen us and they

saw how we had nothing for several several years and how finally our behavior has finally paid off. I mean,

it's we never thought we would get to where we were, but by following the steps and working >> whatever it is that they're doing right, they will do more of it. Whatever it is that they're doing wrong, they will do more of it when you leave them money.

And so, if they're doing more wrong than

right, you are not blessing them by

leaving them a couple million dollars because you're going to cause them to magnify the bad behavior.

If it's minor bad behavior, if your husband thinks that, oh, leaving them a couple million dollars, they'll suddenly become smart and they were dumb. No, they won't. They'll become dumber.

>> No, that isn't the case. They're very They have good heads on their shoulders. >> How old are they right now? 30. 30.

>> 29 and 30. >> And you guys are >> I think it mid-50s.

>> Okay. And you're you're not going to die tomorrow, right?

>> No, but if we were both die, you know, we need to change some things. so that it doesn't all go through a will and and all that. We want to have some payable on death accounts. Um we've explained to them, you know, that the Roth doesn't they can keep that and that can be transferable on death versus a traditional how they would have to pull that out. I believe it's within 10 years and be taxed on that. Things like that.

They know the basics. They don't know our total net worth. Um, but like I

said, just the example I think and and I

don't I I don't expect everybody to do the side hustles and to work as many hours as I do, but when like the basic thing of not even putting 10 or 15% back for yourself, those little things because I have learned and I have exhibited how that can change your life.

>> And made you a multi-millionaire.

>> Yes. >> Yeah.

Okay. So, is that the that you brought that up twice? Is that the only thing they're doing that you think is irresponsible?

>> Yeah, pretty much. Because um I don't like even their emergency funds, they don't even have them in a high yield savings account. Just little things like that. And I feel like I've said all I can say without you know >> Oh, you probably Yeah, you probably have. Yeah. >> Right. >> Okay. So, their emergency fund is where?

>> Just in a regular old savings account.

And let me And let me preface too, they both have no debt other than their very modest homes. Okay. >> So, so they they're they're following the basic principles that way. It's just they're missing the chance for compounding and for growth by not just

being a little bit more disciplined. >> Both of them.

>> Yes, sir.

In different ways, but Yes, sir.

>> H >> and I don't want to sound like if we sit down and say, "Okay, we'd like to have a talk." That it sounds like I'm trying to control their everyday life and budget or it be a threat. we're not leaving you

everything if you don't change your ways because I just don't think I will be able to deliver that well in a way that they're going to interpret this is really I mean I know they know they I care and we love them we're very close but I don't want to do anything and you

know so I've obviously want to leave a larger portion to charity than my husband does

>> and also we have it set up where now

that a portion And >> is there any strain between you and their their married partners, >> the in-laws?

>> Well, I don't think so.

>> Okay. >> We've always asked them to to communicate openly with us so that things, you know, don't go unsaid and

then grow and cause hurt.

>> Mhm.

Okay. >> And we have grands and then I don't know how many, you know, how much to specify goes to the grands >> versus the parent. >> Okay. So, are you asking me what I would do?

>> I think just because you have adult children, if you think I'm kind of on the right track, do you feel like that my my >> I think your concerns are valid, but not enough of a concern. I didn't hear anything here that >> gave me such pause that I would not leave the kids the money.

>> Oh, I'm not saying not leave them money.

I'm not question I don't need to I don't

need to leave it to charity.

Um, >> well, we're going to leave part of it to charity anyway, but do whatever you want to do. That's fine. I I don't have any desire to do that. The um uh uh in terms

of in your situation, I I don't hear anything that says that they have invalidated their right to manage millions of dollars. >> It's not optimal what they're doing, but it's not misbehavior. >> Yeah. I mean, they're they're at the 90 95% implementation and the other 5%'s driving you crazy is what I'm hearing. Um because the 5%

matters and it's done you good and I appreciate that. I'm glad for you.

>> And if they live a long life, they could inherit this at 60. So, we just don't know. There's too many variables here.

>> But I I and it and it won't be a million

then. It will be several million if they if it goes that long because of compounding. So, um, you know, I I think

for today, I'm going to set the will up and leave the vast majority of it to the kids. If you want to earmark some for charity, that's fine. But I'm not they haven't invalidated their right to manage money in anything you told me. Um, uh, and and

I don't see any kind of confrontational thing being, uh, I'm with you. I agree with you on that, uh uh Kim, that that it probably

wouldn't be profitable to try to have a talk about all that. I think I simply would just leave it to him. I'm I'm going to side with your husband on this.

So, but you do whatever you want to do. It's your money. It's okay. There's no They're not entitled to it morally, ethically, or legally. It's whatever you choose to do. This is the Ramsey Show.

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George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. age.

Luke and Kate are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than we deserve. Welcome to Nashville. Where do you guys live?

>> We're from Asheville, North Carolina.

>> Oh, love Asheville. What a great town.

Very cool. Well, welcome all the way over. And how much debt have you paid off?

>> 176,000. >> All right. How long did that take?

>> 24 months. >> Whoa. And your range of income during that time? We started at 165 and then uh when my husband Luke finished school, we ended at about 275.

>> Cool. Cool. What do you guys do for a living? >> I'm a technical product manager.

>> Mhm. >> And I'm a physicians assistant with a allergy and immunology practice.

>> Ah, a PA school, huh? Okay. Good for you. Great career choices. >> Amazing. >> Very well done. Wonderful income. What kind of debt was the 176 PA school?

>> It was all student loans. I had about 130 for myself and then she had about 45. Wow. Okay. So, uh, you're coming out

of school, you say, "Okay, the income's getting ready to jack. We already make 165, but we're getting ready to jack this and but we got a mess." What made

you decide to do all this stuff 24 months ago and get real serious about it? >> Well, it was kind of the the shocking revelation that, hey, I got to find a job to pay all this back. I mean, I think we I decided to go

to PA school and >> I didn't really know what the numbers were going to look like at the end.

>> And so when we got to the end, it was like, holy cow. >> And, you know, the the amount put a lot

of weight on our shoulders and it was hard to, >> you know, kind of do the things that we wanted to do without feeling guilty.

>> Yeah. >> So, we wanted to get out of that situation. >> Okay. Very cool. Is there anything in particular happened 24 months ago that said game on? We uh we're about to have our first daughter. So, all right.

>> Bringing a kid into the world, you uh want to kind of go in with a fresh slate and give them the best opportunity they can have. >> Yeah. They they uh that's like a tuning fork. It it causes everything to get into and you go, "Uhoh, wait a minute.

Adult time. Game on." Yeah. Very cool.

And how'd you find us?

>> Uh I actually used to work with someone who um claimed her and her husband's success was because of Dave Ramsey. And I was like, "Who's this Dave Ramsey person?" So, um, I went home and bought your book, read it in 24 hours, and then went to my husband and said, "You have to read this book. It's it's makes so much sense." And, um, we should think about kind of getting on the debtfree journey. >> Wow.

And and so you read both of you read total money makeover. So when she comes with you a book with and you just finished school, Luke, and she's handing you a book. I mean, what do you say?

>> Well, I So, we didn't get the book when I finished school. We were kind of listeners, but you know, maybe Dave Light um for entertainment value.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We really enjoyed the show, but we decided to take it serious when when uh we got out of school completely.

>> When the baby when the baby's on the way, she reads a book, hands it to you, you're like, "Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am." >> Yep. >> Wow. >> Very cool. >> Good for y'all. >> How old is the baby now?

>> Uh she's a little under two and we're expecting our second in the next month.

So exciting.

>> Yes. Thank you. >> Fun. Fun. Fun. Good for y'all.

>> What a cool journey. >> Yeah. Very good. >> Most people it takes we found the average is 20 years to pay off their student loans and you guys just buckled down.

You have this great income and you said we're going to knock it out in two. Was that a specific goal or did you have a longer time horizon? You beat it. I I think we knew our income was extraordinary for the location that we lived in and just kind of our professions and we wanted to take advantage of the opportunities that we were given and and get it done as quickly as possible so we could invest for the future.

>> Yeah, we were actually able to do it a little bit quicker than we expected. Um Kate was laid off from a tech company at one point and she was provided a generous severance package and rather than using that to do other things, we just um put all that towards her debt and she had a job within a a week or two after the >> Wow. >> Yeah. Seance package turns into a signing bonus for the next job.

Yeah, >> that was very helpful.

Game on. Yeah. >> Took a lot instead of vacations and upgrading the car. He went we got to pay off these student loans. >> Yep. M >> good for y'all. How's it feel?

>> So good. >> Amazing. >> Weight lifted off our shoulders. >> Was it worth it? >> Totally. >> All right. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is >> uh perseverance and determination. And it's not just about the journey or it's not just about the destination, it's about the journey, how you get there. Um and your character changes as a part of it and lasts a little bit longer than just uh paying off the debt. So, it's really rewarding.

There's a piece of this where you overcame $176,000 in debt in two years. And so now it's like what can't we overcome in life, not even finances. And there's something about the debtfree journey that's inspiring and it usually begets more transformation. And uh you guys are a perfect example of that.

>> Yeah, we definitely feel that way. We try to tell all of our friends and family uh to listen to the show and also Smart Money Happy Hour for my friends who uh aren't as big of fans of just like listening to straight financial content. >> Thank you. There we go. Something for everyone. >> George Christopher. No, you're not straight financial content. >> We're a gateway drug that we're a gateway drug to the Ramsey Show.

>> That's right. That's right. >> That's so fun. Well, thank you guys for being here and telling me >> People have said there were drugs involved and I always wondered >> sometimes a mocktail.

Oh, way to go you guys. We're so proud of you. Excellent. I mean, what an incredible situation. How old are you two? >> 33 and my wife turned 30 today. So, >> oh, happy birthday. All right. Thank

you. >> That's very cool. >> Dave's going to sing to you on air. >> Not a fan. Not a chance. They'll do talk radio for a reason, but they Yeah, this is great. I mean, what an incredible you

this incredible income and no payments.

You're going to be able to do anything you want to do from this point, man.

Absolutely awesome. Very, very well done. What's the next thing you guys are going to do? What's the fun thing? The expensive thing? >> Well, it's stork mode till we um till we have the baby and then uh I think we're

just going to continue to invest money appropriately and uh that way we're

ready for whatever comes next. >> Yeah, >> you'll be ready. >> Yeah, definitely. Well done. We've got the live and give box for you that includes the Baby Steps Millionaires book. You'll be there in a minute if you're not already there. Total money makeover book that started the whole thing for you guys. and a baby step and a financial peace university membership.

You can use those or you can give them away. You can do whatever you want. They're our gift to you to say thanks for coming all the way over from Asheville, North Carolina to do your debtfree scream. You two are inspiring.

Very well done, heroes. Excellent job.

You took control of your life. You could have done a lot of stupid butt things with this. Instead, you really dialed in, hammered it home, and changed the changed your family tree for these two kiddos. Very, very well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. All right, it's Luke and Kate. Asheville, North Carolina.

$176,000 paid off in 24 months, making 165 to

275. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Man, oh man. Oh, man. That's excellent.

Very good stuff. Those are two great

career fields, too. The opposite of what we were talking about earlier of I'm going to be broke and live my passion.

Both of them have I mean PA is a great track in the medical world. That's a great track to get on and uh the physicians assistant process and uh >> and product manager and the technical space. I mean, it's just you can see >> definitely ROI. >> Proof's in the pudding here. They make 275 and no payments in the world at 30

and 34. It's just mindboggling how much more you can give, how much more you can invest after 24 months of sacrifice.

>> You know, I haven't added it up, but if you invested $100,000 a year, how fast would you be a millionaire?

>> Probably six and a half roughly. Yeah, >> I'm guessing. >> Um I mean 10 years would be a million dollars if you had no compounding interest benefit. So uh >> you stuck it in a mattress. If you put it put it in a fruit jar, you'd have that. But that's how fast the I mean, these guys are going to they're going to be millionaires when they're 37 or less,

something like that. If they and that's if they live on 175,000 a year.

>> That'll do. >> You know, I mean, really, no payments.

See the power of this. It's that puts you in an incredible incredible situation. So, beautifully done, guys.

That was fabulously done. Very good.

That's inspiring. This is what happens.

So, you you know, it's funny. You can live your life that way and you got to admit that's not normal.

That's weird. They're weird people in such a great way.

>> Or you can go be normal. But who the flip wants to be normal? Oh my god, that's horrible.

>> Nobody wants to be normal. You shouldn't ever want to be normal. >> One out of three people making six figures paycheck to paycheck. >> Normal. >> We get those calls. Sucks. Make 200 grand. We're broke. >> Normals. Awful. This is the Ramsey show.

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scripture of the day, 1 Peter 4:10. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Steve Martin said, "Thankfully, perseverance is a great substitute for talent." There we go. Emily is with us

in Tucson. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I I am blessed to be here. Thank you.

>> Good to have you. How can we help?

>> Um, so a very long story short, um, I

have been unemployed now for over a month. Um, I have been applying like crazy for jobs around my area. Um, nobody's calling me back. I've had a few interviews and they decided to go with other people for positions, which is great for them. Like, I'm I'm blessed for them. Um, the problem is is that I

am now behind on my car payment and credit card payments, and I feel like my hope is gone. Um, I'm I'm just I'm

struggling to to hold on to the hope that God will will will get me through this.

>> Scary. I'm sorry.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, the first thing we need to do is uh you've got to get the wolf away from the door. And uh by that I mean the

the immediate needs need to be covered.

Okay? You can do that with Door Dash.

You can do that by applying at Walmart or Target and you'll get hired today and go down there and make $20 an hour and start working your tail end off and you can make enough to pay for food, lights,

and water and your car payment. If your credit cards get behind, it's not the end of the world. But I want you to take care of, you know, a place to live,

water, and electric and food and

transportation.

Okay? and you can make that much money at a not great job, but you just go get it real quick. Okay, we're not doing that for long. It's not your permanent assignment, but it's to get this immediate pressure off. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, and you can get those jobs by the end of the day.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Go go go go go to five pizza places, Target, Costco, Walmart,

whatever, and tell them you can start work tomorrow. And they're paying 20 bucks an hour right now, all of them.

And they'll they'll start you almost immediately. Okay?

>> So, wash your face, put your makeup on, brush your teeth, smile, go down there, and be your best Emily, and land you a whole bunch of stuff. By the end of tomorrow, I want you to have three jobs.

>> Okay? And that'll help because you can

get a th000 bucks a week coming in doing

that stuff. Now, that's not your permanent solution, but that gets this terrifying this terror off your doorstep cuz this is terrifying.

>> It is. You know, a lot of my friends have, you know, husbands and family that they can rely on and it's just me. I

don't I don't >> Well, you're enough. You're enough. You can do it.

>> You're enough. If you're sharp enough, you can do it. I trust you. I think you can. Okay? And and again, so that's the

first step. Now, if you've got $1,000 a month coming in, I mean, $1,000 a week coming in and you are working 40 hours at miscellaneous jobs that you don't want to do for the rest of your life.

Now, we got to start talking about a career job. Now, the job that you lost, what were you making?

>> Um, I was making 20 an hour. I'm sorry.

Sorry, I'm not great at math, so I'm not sure how much that was in a year.

>> What were you doing? >> About 40 grand.

>> About 40 grand. Um, I was a front desk receptionist. Um, >> and why did you lose the job?

>> Uh, the the job was dissolved.

>> Okay. Okay. And you're how old?

>> I will be 30 in November.

>> Okay. And um, do you have a degree?

>> Unfortunately, I do not.

>> That's okay. So, for 10 years of your life, you've been a front p a front desk receptionist.

>> No, I I've um the first six years of me

working in the just working in the field, I've worked in daycare. I've been a call center supervisor. Um and I've also worked property management. So, I've kind of been all over the place.

>> Okay. So, what I want you to do also,

first thing is get some money coming in to get rid of this terror.

You got that part, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Then I want you to start thinking about what 40-year-old Emily is going to be doing that pays $80,000 a year

or more. What is it you're going to be doing that gives you a great

life that you love doing? Now, I'm going

to send you some tools of Ken Coleman's to help you do that. The Find the Work You're Wired to Do book has in it

the Get Clear assessment that will help

you get clear on your gifts, talents, passions, and what to aim those at in a

career. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, sir. >> This is my gift to you. It cost you nothing. Okay?

>> You take the assessment and then you sit with that. Sit with some friends. sit with a a parent if you have functional parents and say, "This is what this report's telling me. Does that line up with what you know about me?" Then I want you to start laying out a strategy that says, "I want to be X. I want a new

dream. I'm going to be one of those things." And if that means you've got to go take a class or get a certificate or

whatever to go be one of those things, I don't care. Go take a class while you're working these other things. And then I'm also going to send you Ken's book,

The Proximity Principle, because you've just been running around applying it places trying to get a J O.

You weren't really trying to go do something big with your life. You were just trying to get some money coming in so you weren't hungry, >> right? >> And you weren't you you weren't u thinking about where you just ran in there, heard they were hiring, and ran in there and filled out an application.

you and 15,000 other people filled out the same application. And the proximity principle teaches you how to go get a job that you love in a career field that

is directed by you and taking you to a place that's going to be different. So, you're going to be a very fulfilled, wealthy 40-year-old if you do what I'm teaching you to do.

>> Thank you so much. I just want to be a blessing to others and I'm just I don't want to keep droning. I want to be able to be a blessing someday to somebody.

>> Well, that's the interesting thing about the marketplace is when you do a really

good job helping people, they give you

certificates of appreciation with president's faces on them.

When you are a blessing to people in the capitalistic system that we have, you make money. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's a great trade that we have out here. So, it turns out that if I sell somebody a book for $26 or

whatever we sell these books for these days, then it helps them get out of thousands of dollars in debt and makes them into a millionaire. They were blessed and I got 26 bucks. Do that a

couple million times, it'll work out for you. You know, I help a couple million people, I got several million dollars as a result. It worked out. And they all got help, too. See, isn't it a wonderful trade? You get to be a blessing and the

natural result is you get blessed. So, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. It doesn't have to be that you somehow diminish in order for you to be be of

good be doing good.

>> Yeah. And one other thing, Emily, if the if the car is worth a whole bunch, let's say it's, you know, you got a $10,000 loan, but the car is worth 20, it'd be wise to just sell that thing, get out from under the payment, and go buy you a cheaper car cuz you need some breathing room right now.

>> Yeah. If you've got some room in it.

Yeah. Depending on the situation. I >> You're underwater, it's not going to make sense. But >> yeah, that that's exactly right. So, >> man, I want to just get you some go get some income coming in right now from any old body. It doesn't matter. But a a

quote 40-hour a week day job making the same thing you make at Target, you know, that's not there's no there's no future in that. So, let's go figure out what we're going to be and go that direction.

You hang on. Christian will pick up.

We'll get you uh get you those books out and we'll start helping you. And if you need some more help, you call us back. We're here to help you. You're going to be fine. You got the right spirit, the right heart. Um, but don't just throw your application in a pile of jobs that nobody wants, but you'll take anyway cuz you're scared.

That's not your best life. It's not your

best destiny. You're worth more than that.

Thanks for calling in, Emily. You holler if you need some help. We're here for you. We think you're awesome. You're going to be okay. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 14. Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions | October 29, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOBsOCfcyUE) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:01:08 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Kamel joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw.

We're taking your calls at 888 825 5225.

Peter is in Philadelphia to kick us off.

What's going on, Peter?

Uh hi. How are you? Just um stressed about bills and thinking about bankruptcy. Uh-oh. Oh, man. How much debt do you have?

Uh a little over 25,000.

What kind of debt is that? >> to 30. Um car, personal loan, hospital

bills, um gas bill.

And what's left on the car?

The car's 10. The personal loan is 11.

And that's that's just, you know, like personal loan just cuz I'm try I'm trying to get myself out of a jam, so I go back into it.

>> Mhm. You're in a cycle. What do you make? Right. Uh 126

um base salary. Dude, >> think last year I I pulled in about 180 for overtime. America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000

and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over 20? Yeah, what else is going on?

What else is eating your lunch cuz it's not it's not $25,000 of debt.

You could pay off this debt in less than 6 months. >> I mean, I I do have other things that I mean, I take care of my kids. >> Okay, tell us about that because right now we're we're trying to understand where is the problem.

You Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just, you know, whatever they need and and whatever their mom needed, I just take care of. >> That's true, but again, if you were if you were >> going to lie. Misspending. Okay, that's what it is because even if you were married with the kids in the house taking care of them, 100 you know, $125,000 income would still be a great income.

So, it's not the kids. It sounds like you're overspending in other areas. Do you have any kind of budget that you're on? No, not really.

>> Okay, there's there's the problem. So, I guarantee you today if you were to just do a an old-school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, "All right, here's the money I take home, my my my net amount when I when I take home my check, and now I write down what I'm spending money on, and I'm just going to go back through my bank statement." I think you would see the problem. Are you dating anybody? No.

Is it food? Are you doing a lot of DoorDash? >> looked at your bank statement, what would I see as the number one thing that you're overspending on?

Uh I don't know. Maybe fast food. >> Mhm. Um

Uh go Yeah, I guess going out fast food.

Uh-huh. You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks, anything like that?

>> time for that. I work too much for work time. >> Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. If you make 100 and I mean, we could talk about taxes and nickeling diming, but essentially, if you made $100,000 a year, 126, you could live on

100 and pay this debt off, right? At the basic level in less than a year. Can you live on $100,000 a year?

Yeah, I think so. >> I think so, too. You're a single guy. I mean, yes, you've got your kids to take care of. How many? Two?

Three. Three. Okay. How old are they?

16, 20, and 9. Okay.

And the 20-year-old, is she in college?

Mhm. Yeah. What do you put towards that every month?

Uh about 600.

Okay. >> And what are you taking home? Like what ends up in your paycheck? Is it like $8,000?

Oh, that's right. I have I also have a pension loan out. A pension loan?

>> Tell us about that. Yeah. Uh that I

didn't even think I totally forgot about that cuz that comes out of my check automatically. So, that I think I have about probably about 24,000 left to pay

on that. Okay, how much comes out of your check?

>> 463 a month um every 2 weeks. What caused you to take that pension loan?

Oh, that's a long story.

Okay. Uh what about credit cards? Are you using those?

No. Oh. Oh, glad you said that. So, there's a I got about 6,000 on a Okay.

>> uh Capital One. Okay, now it's now it's starting to come to view.

We went from 25 up to 50, now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about? Like hand on the Bible, what else do you have going on? >> Student loans? >> That's I forgot about the Capital One card. Did you forget about student loans? >> ago. No, I don't have any student loans. Thank god. >> Is any of this in collections?

Uh the Capital One card. Okay. And the gas bill. All right. Are you ready to s- like take control of this as a grown man with three about grown kids and you're like, "Dude, I'm ready to clean up my life." Cuz if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you are.

>> got it. Yeah, I am cuz Okay. I'm just too stressed out. >> Mhm.

>> Starting tonight, you're going to make this budget and it's going to give you so much peace just to have the numbers laid out in front of you. Even if it's scary, even to go, "Ugh, I don't like what I see." At least it's not the boogeyman and all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. So, we're going to gift you EveryDollar to actually make the budget.

It's a digital app you can download. And you're going to list out your income for the month, and if that's 7,500, you list that in the income section. Below that, you're going to list every expense you can think of including your minimum debt payments. And what you're going to see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw at the debt.

guide when you do this because I kind of feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. So, if you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food, right? When the reality is you might spend like $1,100 on on food, right? So, go back, get the bank statement for September and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November, okay?

That's going to let you see, okay. Now now you're going to see, "Oh, yeah, this pension thing came out." Now you're going to see, "Oh, yeah, this is what I spend on gas." And it's going to take you, you know, you could do a If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes, but I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done, but it's going to give you, like George said, so so much peace.

No, nothing serious. It's pennies on Robinhood. Oh, boy. Okay, let's delete Robinhood for now. Can you promise me that? >> Yeah. Okay, we're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time. And what do you get every year when you do your taxes? Uh what kind of refund do you get?

I don't. Last year was the first time I owed. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah, the budget, I mean, it's the blood work. It it tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

Okay. So, once you do this budget, you're going to figure out your main expenses. Here's like food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're going to get real judicious and cut out. And that means eating out, that's got to go cuz we got we got to clean this mess up. And we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months. >> Mhm. Does that sound better?

Yeah. Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say, just using ballpark numbers, and you throw 2,500 a

month at this, you're done in 22 months, less than 2 years.

That sounds great, right?

Yeah. And we avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next 7 years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over a over debts these small. Yeah.

And so, I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So, hang on the line. We're going to gift you EveryDollar.

Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity. In the new EveryDollar, in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so, it's like we're going to be in your pocket guiding you along the way on this journey, and we are rooting for you, man.

We think you're worth it. We think those kids are worth it, and you're very capable. If someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year, you are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it.

It's not the answer, man. You are.

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Tiffany is up next in New York City.

What's going on, Tiffany?

Hi George and Dave. Can you hear me well? Yes. What's going on? Um okay, perfect. So my mother-in-law, she

is currently 60 years old. She has nothing saved for retirement. Um she's pretty much banking on the idea that um my husband and I would take care of her when she physically unable to uh work anymore. Is she What's her What's her health like now at 60?

Um so she is blind in one eye. So she

used to work at a nail salon, but because uh after losing sight in one eye, she is unable to work there. Um she is currently working as a ironically as a caregiver. Okay. What does she earn?

Do you know? Um I don't know the exact amount, but I do know it covers basically her uh necessities, rent, utilities, food, and

transportation. So has she Is How long

has she been single? How long has

your father-in-law been out of the picture?

So uh father-in-law is still in the picture, but they're separated. They're divorced.

Okay. And how long But how long has that been?

Um I would say over 20 years. >> Okay, so she's had My point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own.

And you're just saying she's She just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're Yeah, so pretty much um she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. Um and then with her current job now, she can only take on so many hours cuz she says physically she can't work full-time. Um so basically um

she's just doing what she can, but I'm just worried because she has She really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a um I think she had like 20K saved up. Um but then when she was out of a job um after she lost her job working as a nail tech, she kind of went through all that. So Mhm. She's basically at nothing now. What's your husband say about all this? What's he think?

Um so their relationship Their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one. Um she recently got back into my husband's uh life, I would say um since 2020. Their relationship was a

little bit strained because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. Um and my husband was I believe

he was a teen when this had happened. So she only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

Wow. >> Interesting. >> So is he wanting to help her at all in any way or is he just Are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, "Hey, we can't support you in any way?"

>> I think he's at a uh situation where of course he doesn't want his mother out on the street, you know, if something God forbid something were to happen, but um he also

would I think we've both kind of agreed that there there would be a lot of resentment towards her if we have to bear all the financial responsibilities.

What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house? How does she live? >> So she Yeah, so she is renting um but she's renting with two other roommates.

Great. >> So um So it's like Golden Girls over there or what? Uh pretty much. Sounds awesome. That is awesome. Her rent is um her rent's a thousand dollars. So she splits it three ways. It is New York City, so it's rent's expensive. >> Mhm. So she has a thousand dollars for rent. What's your um financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

Um I think we're doing pretty well. We do have um our first child that was born May of last year. Um so uh the only

thing is of course with rent by where paying and then there's daycare costs.

Um Unless we want to give up the I guess um

our retirement, I feel like um

I don't know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side for her retirement, but >> that I would have, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more facts.

So first off, I'd want to make sure I'm

not assuming that she wants, you know, me to take care of her. I want to know point-blank. And so I'd probably sit down and ask the question. And >> Oh, no. Yeah, so when the situation

happened when she had lost her um job earlier and she had to get surgery um eye surgery um around that time when she was out of a job, she did come to my husband to ask for money. So just a one-time thing or say, "Hey, you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement. I hope you know." Those are two different things. >> My husband set a boundary.

He said I was only He was going to only give her money for three months. And he had expected her to get back on her feet after, you know, she recovered. Mhm.

and he said that was it. I'm only going to give you money for three months and then you're sort of on your own. But of course he is He's a softy in the sense that if she was, you know, out of money and she may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen. >> Sure.

Cuz here's what I'm I'm going to just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work cuz you lost your job cuz of your vision.

Right, those There's that and then there's you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you kind of are making an assumption and I can see why you're jumping to that.

I can see why you're doing that. But I'd want to know that. And then if it does seem like, "Hey, no, this really is the the expectation. I've gotten clarity on that." Then I'd want to know, "Okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances." Right, George?

Like you better be telling me what's your social security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills, right? >> If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills and what your spending is.

Yeah. Okay. So it's going to sound like, you know, we love you. We want to make sure that you're taken care of.

Uh we also need to have a plan for you to live independently. And right now we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We're living in a high cost of living area.

We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. So here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you into a sustainable place.

But we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all your bills. We can't do that.

>> Yeah, cuz there's still time. There's time here for her to create something for herself. And if you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. So if you can help her understand, "Okay, you're 60.

You've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself. Here's how you do it." I think that's a wonderful thing. Um but all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her and then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. Um that's what I would do.

And if it gets to the point where she is truly disabled, then she can get on disability. And eventually maybe she'll get some social security if she decides to take that at 62 or three or whatever. And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you and you becoming Bank of Tiffany is going to be a bad plan cuz you're right, it's going to create resentment and it's going to create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, "Well, why even work full-time? I can work part-time or maybe not work at all if they're just going to float my life." So that's the scary slippery slope that we're headed towards.

Yeah, that's true.

>> So that's all That's going to be you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it spit-shake, saying, "I know you're a softy. You can't give in." When she goes, "Yeah, but everything I've done for you." It's like, "Hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years." >> Mhm. I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is a lot of us experience these We start to see these cracks cracks financially expose themselves in family members or in our aging parents.

And you have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations. You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path because a lot can happen in 10 years financially. You can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. So if you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idly.

Go be about some business and get some information. And if you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. I want them to like when my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them, not goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll.

[Music] Mhm. [Applause]

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[Music]

[Music]

Carol is up next in Toronto. What's going on, Carol?

Hi there. Uh thank you so much for taking my call, Jordan Jade. Um I do just want to say to uh really quickly, thank you guys so much for what you do. I found the podcast 2 months ago, and it's given me so much direction in my life, and I just think you guys are changing lives. So, thank you for that. Oh, thank you. Thanks for listening. We're glad it's been helpful for you. Yes, great so far. Lots of work to do, but um so, we had a series of kind of

unfortunate events that took place over the pandemic, and it caused us to take

on quite a bit of bad debt. So, we made improvements on the home uh with plans of investments coming through, and those investments did not come fruition, and essentially went to zero.

So, since then, we've been really treating our um HELOC like a giant credit card uh prior to me finding this this podcast. So, I'm in Canada, so our

mortgage is up for renewal in June. I'm in baby step two, and the amount of the HELOC is so overwhelming that I feel

like I'm not sure whether I should be rolling it into our mortgage in June, or whether we should be continuing for the next 5 or 6 years on paying it down,

keeping in mind that I've, you know, three kids who are looking to go to university in the next 5 to 8 years. So,

>> um yeah. How much is the HELOC?

So, the HELOC is at 400,000. Oh my gosh.

What's your income?

So, our income uh well, okay, before or after tax? We've got some pretty hefty taxes. >> Before taxes.

Oh, before about 500 a year. Oh my gosh,

woman. Yeah, but after >> flow the renovations making half a million dollars?

Yeah, I but after tax, it's only about

200 300 a year is what we take home.

Okay. Okay, well, what's your >> Yeah, like it's significant taxes. >> What do you owe on the house aside from this? Yep, so we have a mortgage for 750,000,

and that's at 3.6%, but the house is valued at 2.5 million.

Okay, what's the What's the percentage on the HELOC? What's the interest? It's 4.5. Okay. And then what other debt do you have outside of the mortgage and HELOC? That's it. Okay.

>> I thought you were going to hit me with a bunch of consumer debt. All right.

No, because it's all rolled into one, and I think I've never heard I've been binging this, and I've never heard how you attack just like one big >> Yeah. No. Generally, here's our parameter with HELOCs. If it's over half your annual income, we say, "Hey, roll it into your baby step six," which is when you pay off the mortgage.

So, that's when you would pay it versus in baby step two with other consumer debt. Since you guys have no consumer debt, do you have an emergency fund? Do you have savings?

Uh we just started that. We well, we have some education savings um for about 50 grand for for the kids right now. Um and then just retirement funds, we have maybe a couple hundred thousand, but um other than that, not really. >> anything in cash?

Like if you had an emergency today, how would you pay for it? Um I already did baby step one, so I have We probably have about 5,000 in cash. Okay. But, your next paycheck is going to be sizable.

You're You're going to make like what, 25 grand on the next check? Uh yeah, like per month uh my husband and I are Yeah, we bring home around 25 grand a month. Okay, how much of that could you throw into a savings account next month, for example?

So, you guys are spending close to 20 grand a month.

Um I'd say our spending kids are in private school. Um our the interest on the HELOC is about 1,800. So, yeah, like I'd say we spend around 12 grand a month on uh yeah.

The private school for all three kids.

Yes. Man.

That's That's a real That's your burn rate is high here. You've got a lot of expenses going on. I'm guessing we're not going to put them in public school to clean up this mess.

Well, they're almost out, so it into um

like to middle school, so that's going to change and get better over the next couple years. I just I didn't want to feel like I was rolling the HELOC into the mortgage and kicking the can down the road, and whether I should, you know, roll some of it in, and then keep some of it and and attack that really fast, I'm not sure. I kind of like them broken up just for I mean, is the HELOC going to have a variable rate here?

>> the same thing. It's currently variable, but again, in June, we sign the next 5-year mortgage, so it would lock in at whatever the interest rate is, which is probably >> God bless the strangeness of Canada.

Every 5 years we reset the mortgage rates. What's going to be the new mortgage rate when you renew in June?

Cuz it's going to It's 3.6 now, what's it going to go to?

Uh probably go down, so between 2.9 and

3.2. Interesting. So, if you Have you done the math? If you If you did that, what percentage of your income would this mortgage be?

So, that would move us from the 25% to about 29 to 30% of house expenses. On

a 30-year, or are you doing a 15-year?

Uh we haven't discussed that yet. My call's tomorrow with the bank.

Okay. My guess is Well, they don't do the 30 and 15. You have like a 5-year.

Oh, that's And it rolls every Yeah, you you still do like a 15-year but every 5 years you revisit it, and you get to redo it. Okay. How often does the rate on the HELOC vary?

It's variable, so it was high for a lot of years, but dropping now. Um it's every month that the interest comes out, but then just depending on what the, you know, Bank of Canada does, the interest rate goes up and down. Okay. If there was a world where you locked this in at 2.9, and it was 25% of your

take-home pay, and it kind of fit those same parameters, it it wouldn't bother me. Um I don't mind it being separate though for the idea of you really getting after it. I'm afraid that if you roll it in, you won't get after it the way you need to, and you'll kick the can down the road. Okay. Okay, so there is maybe a a point

in which some of it we roll in as long as we keep that 25% into the home from our income? Well, the the the rule of thumb here is you don't want your mortgage to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. So,

after taxes, you don't have to think about, you know, insurance and investing and all that jazz. I'm just talking about after taxes, you don't want it to be more than 25% with all in. With HOA

fees, insurance, all of that. Because once you get above that, it can be it can be too much of your world. So, that's that's kind of what I was looking at. At 4.5 on 400,000, yeah, I I

wouldn't want to see that. I wouldn't want that on a variable rate, let me just say. >> I just feel like I'm less emotionally attached to interest rates. I could give a rip at this point.

I just want to see you guys plow through these debts. And so, personally, I would keep the HELOC separate and make an aggressive goal to pay this off in let's say 3 years. It's 133 grand a year. That's 11 grand a month.

Come hell or high water, we're going to throw 11 grand a month at the HELOC.

Yeah, I think we could. I just needed to know I I just I've heard that uh last week, it was like if it's half more than half this, you roll it in, and I just wasn't sure if there was a difference between the two. >> rolling it in, it's about where you're attacking it. Yeah, it's the timing of it.

And so, for you guys, since you don't have a consumer debt, you're just looking at these two debts going, "What do I do with these?" I would just plow through If you can do more than 11 grand a month, be my guest. I'm just throwing a random goal out there. You and your husband should sit down tonight and go, "We got to clean this up." And to that end, I might delay some of the the kids stuff. Like we got time to catch up on that.

Right now, we've got this thing eating our lunch with these giant mortgages and HELOCs. So, I would work to knock that out, and then knock the mortgage out.

Okay. So, think about that. In 9 years, you've got the kids off to college, right?

Yep. And you have no mortgage, no HELOC.

So, that's the kind of future I want you guys to start envisioning, and then reverse engineer it to go, "Okay, what do we got to do today, this month, to get there?" Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call. It's a good question. Love hearing from our Canadian uh listeners. Just to know that they're Canada has its own problems. You know, people are making crazy decisions all over the world.

>> world. But America goes first. We're like, you know what? We're going to show you the way with the HELOC to do all the renovations and go into all the consumer debt. But the good news is they have an amazing income. >> They do. And that Yeah, >> to like feel bad when you're making half a million even after taxes

Quite the shovel. >> Yeah. >> But you can see you just, you know, make decisions with bigger zeros on the end when it comes to debt. >> Exactly. It's very relative in that way.

Um but yeah, this is Yeah. More money more money more problems. >> Yeah. But here's the thing.

You got to just, you know, baby steps, one thing at a time. >> Mhm. And also, what can we do to decrease our lifestyle and expenses? Cuz even with 25 grand, you can see how quickly it can disappear when you got, you know, the cleaners, the private school, this, that, the other, the HELOC, the mortgage.

It just eats away at even the highest incomes. And so you got to get control, live on less than you make. And if you get a raise, ignore it and just invest the difference, give more, save more. That's the key to becoming truly wealthy.

And I think Carol and her husband will get there in no time.

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[Music]

Chase is in Knoxville up next. Chase, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, how's it going? Great. How are you?

How can we help today? >> Uh very good. I have much better than I deserve. Uh first off, but thanks to y'all's y'all's program. Um so I got a two-parter. First part is I've been in Gazelle Intense for a while. Um we're actually debt-free, home, cars, everything. Wow. Um Way to go. Yeah, so it's awesome. I'm a little I'm a little tired at this point cuz I've been working two to three jobs and just kind of figuring out when to put pause on, you know, extra income and just kind of relax for a little while.

Well, yesterday Well, yeah, it's just I guess the scary part because we're single income right now. Uh so part of me is just like keep going and >> step seven. You have no mortgage payment, right?

Correct. But I mean, we do want to move uh from where we're uh at now. That's I guess that's the quick answer of now is the time to stop that. How long did it take you to accomplish this? How long have you been in this grind?

Uh it was kind of on and off for 2 years because of the the child and um

you know, just some complications around birth and stuff. So that's that's why my mom hasn't went back to work. So >> Okay, that's fine.

>> Yeah, it's it's been uh I guess on me for almost 2 years at this point. So >> Okay. Um So like I said, just kind of want to hit pause on some of those and that leads me into second part.

Um Personally personally misbehaving with the money or like as a part of the company misbehaving with the >> per- personally misbehaving. Just buying vehicles they don't need, buying uh recreational vehicles >> And these are just How'd you find these people? Uh family.

Wait, they they're actual kin to you?

Yes, yes. >> Like cousins, uncles, aunts, who are we talking? Um parents.

Oh. You hired your parents for your small business and they're going out and taking on debt. And you're like, well, that's that wasn't the intended goal. I was I gave them the job So you gave them the job even though they really weren't qualified to help them out financially, quote unquote.

No, they're they're very qualified for the business. Um however, it's just the um They're they're adding small uh personal loans at this point to to try to justify moving payments around, but other than that, it's How many people is this? It's your parents?

No, it's it's just a business that I had started. It became overwhelming for me, like I said, with the the new mortgage.

>> No, no. I'm talking about the the part you said about Okay, it's two There's two things we're talking about. You hired your parents to work in the business. You said they're qualified.

That's all good. But over here, you found out that they're spending their money in a way that you don't like.

Correct? That has nothing to do with the business. That's just their personal life. But you're saying, "Hey, I know that's not very wise. I'd like to be able to help them out." Right? >> You feel like you're enabling them.

Well, so how do I go about it of like grace of like I'm saying either I I shut the business down and just walk away from it or just keep it open and kind of guide them a little bit I uh I don't think >> differently. >> I don't think one I mean, I I This is my perspective. I don't think that one has to do with another. You're not enabling them because they're doing a job and they're getting paid for the job, right?

It's not like they're You're not just giving them money because they asked for money.

Correct. So that's okay.

Now you're talking about shutting down your business. What's that about? Because don't tell me that you're shutting down your business because they're your parents don't know how to spend their paycheck. That's a That feels odd. >> it's two-layered. It's it's Now that I guess technically we're at baby step seven. Um and I'm so tired from the last two to

three years here that it's it's kind of a headache and it's kind of uh it's not that much of my income to It's

not like the side business blew up and you're like, "I could replace my full-time job." You're just like, "Uh I'm done with this side It was a fun side hustle while I got out of debt. I'm done with it." >> What What does it bring in?

Uh about 1,100 a month. Oh, okay. So How

are you even paying your parents from that?

Uh it's just it's kind of subcontracted out to them.

So I think >> But it's not like they're making four grand a month from this. They're not like paying the bills. >> No, no, not at all. It It's just >> Is it a side hustle for them, too?

Uh yeah. Okay. Then just shut it down.

Yeah. >> If you were going to like put them on the streets cuz now they're out of a job, then I'd be like, "Hey, let's be a little more cautious about this." But if you have the conversation with them, said, "Hey, I started this cuz I was trying to get out of debt. I'm kind of done with it emotionally, physically.

I'm tired. So you guys are going to need to If you want more side hustle money, you're going to find it elsewhere." Yeah. I'm shutting down the shop. And I also think the whole thing of them, the way they're spending their money, if they're open to maybe you telling them a

little bit about, you know, Ramsey and how you figured out how to manage your money, I think that's fine. But honestly, I kind of feel like right now that's the least of things you need to be worried about. It sounds like you guys have a lot going on at home uh with your wife and this baby and uh

when you called, that seemed to be the thing that was getting your goat. And I think your parents is just kind of this nuisance that you're observing over here. And I think you just need to kind of swap that away for now.

Okay. Cuz the truth is you can't control what they do with their money. >> Right. And unless they invite you into their life to coach them on it, then it's it's a moot point. They're just It's going to just cause resentment.

>> I think that's the part that that gets me is like I d- I do kind of like coach on the side uh just kind of like a freelance, whatever you want to call it.

>> that to them? Say, "Hey, I do coaching on the side. Like I know I'm your son and you're it's it's awkward, but I'd be happy to look at your numbers, you know." It gets very sticky. They don't want you to do it.

>> cut it loose. Yeah. >> Yeah, and that's where that's where I was looking for advice of just like when somebody doesn't want it, do I just need to walk away or just watch the train wreck happen? >> Yeah.

No, walk away cuz for people like when they're when the student's ready, the teacher appears. And they're not ready. So one day they might be and you might be the teacher and one day they might be ready and it's somebody else maybe from their church or a friend of theirs.

Right. All righty. All you can do is live your life and hopefully do it in a way that makes them go, "Man, what's Chase doing over there? I'm interested.

Tell me more." But man, parents is that's one of the hardest ones to tackle. Cuz like they remember changing your diaper yesterday. They're not looking for financial advice from you.

Exactly. >> Uh but way to go, Chase. Baby step seven, that's impressive. You said one of my favorite lines. You said it's a moot point. >> Moot. >> And it always makes me think of Friends when he says it's a moose point a moo point. A cow's opinion.

Uh thank you for that. I needed a win today. You needed that. Uh Brendan is in Houston up next. Brendan, take us home, man. What's going on? How can we help? Hey, how y'all doing today? Better than we deserve.

Um so I had a question for you. I'm in a

position where I'm barely blessed to be making the money I am.

Um I'm 20. Um my base income is right around $100,000 a year pre-tax.

But I'm struggling to decide between

staying at this job or, you know, having the opportunity to go to college for maybe a job that pays a little less, but it gives me more free time.

Free time? What does a 20-year-old need free time for? You got all the free time.

Uh unfortunately, no. Uh um you'd think I would. This job's traveling. Mhm. But do you have kids and a spouse? I'm just saying this is the freest you're going to be. So, uh what do you what are you doing for work making 100,000 at 20?

So, it's a traveling job. Um the simplest way to say it, it's basically large-scale HVAC. So, Okay.

>> from different sites like uh we're contracted with Walmart right now. So, we'll jump from, you know, Walmart chain to Walmart chain and make sure it runs cold for, you know, the food storage and whatnot. >> Got it. Okay. >> of work. It's a lot of hours, but, you know, they compensate me well. Um I have no bills at the moment. Do you like the work? >> Um I like the money. Okay.

>> But so what do you want to go to college for? How clear are you on that?

>> Uh relatively clear. Originally, my plan was going to be for college, but life got in the way. And I didn't feel like taking on a bunch of debt to go to college. >> Mhm.

>> Good. >> was a big problem of me going for either business administration or construction management. Okay. Now you can cash flow it, is that what you're saying?

That you have the money that you could pay for it now? 50/50.

Um he was in the military, so I would get my tuition covered if I went out there. And we we have we're in the talks right now about an arrangement where I'd pay a certain amount for rent. Okay.

>> at all, whatever.

I mean, I don't think you're going to you're not going to regret going to college debt free and doing the thing you really want to do and exploring that. Cuz you know you're a skilled guy in the trades. And so I if I you can do it free, I'd go for construction management if that's the field you want to be in. Business administration, I'd want some real clear answers on what's on the other side of that.

I think construction management has more upside for you if that's the field you want to be in. So, go for it, dude. Just do it all debt free. You're 20, you can take those kinds of risks now.

Just don't go into debt to do it. That's the only parameter here. But explore, explore, follow your heart, my friend.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas up next. Brian, how can we help today?

Hey, um so I have about $90,000

tied up and $90,000 in debt tied up in a

truck and a camper since I travel for work. And uh I always want to I'm always like I'm tired of being broke. I'm wanting to get this paid off in the next year.

How how do you get into that mentality of like whenever it comes to payday, I'm just I don't want to do it, but whenever it's time to pay the bill, I'm I want to get rid of this. How do you get get in the mentality of

making it happen? >> this done. Yeah, making it happen. Well,

I mean, I think I I think for you right now it's just logic. I think you're seeing, "Okay, I have debt. Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off." Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason, right? But right now it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a real reason why

um and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. Um and a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life.

So, if your goal is to get married or if

your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden, right?

Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet. Okay. Cuz I've set goals for I want to get the debt paid off in the next year.

And then But why?

>> Why? Mhm.

Um to be financially free and to so I

can continue on my other financial goals of

buying a buying land, building a house, and then But also >> Whatever. I'm asking deeper questions because money it can't just be for more gain. Like it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more thing, you know, there's got to be like you got to pinpoint it to something. It's, you know, so when you said, "Hey, I want to buy land." Why is land important to you?

If you said, "Hey, I want to build a house." Why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So, I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful.

Otherwise, it's pretty surface and a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do. And it's not really it's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was. Yeah, you'll get there and go, "Okay, I did it, but now what?" And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. I think you're getting there the way you're talking. Uh what do you make?

I make about $110,000

before or after taxes. After taxes you make 110. Great income. Okay. So, when you say I want to pay this off in 12 months, how were you planning on doing that? So, my checks are about $2,100 to $2,500

depending on overtime and and how my hours are Is that twice a month?

>> No, it's every week. >> Okay, good. I was like, man, this math is not mathing for me. Okay.

>> Yeah, that's that's weekly.

>> Um and just I did the math and right around

1,500 bucks a week.

I get to a point to where I have a I'm

thinking like a $10,000 safety net since

I am traveling for work.

And How much do you have saved now?

Nothing. Okay. So, you're just paycheck to paycheck spending everything you get.

All right. >> they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

They So, they pay um incentives to come out here and then

the travel expenses are on me. Okay. What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper. Okay. Do you need a $60,000

truck to do your job?

I don't. Okay. Cuz it's over half of your your take-home pay. It's a lot of truck for and it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

20. Okay. A 20-year-old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that? Yeah. A A 50-year-old doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally, and sell this truck and get a new to me truck for 15,000.

>> Okay. So, what is the truck worth if you sold it private party? How much could you get for it?

Probably 55 to 60. I haven't really done

the blue book on it. Cool. There's your There's some homework. And if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month.

If you're underwater by five grand, could you save five grand to save your life in the next month? Yeah. Great. So, now you can clear the title.

Now we still need another truck, right? You still need that? Yeah. So, you're going to need to come up with another 10 grand, 15 grand to get a a beater truck is what this is going to amount to in the truck world.

Yeah.

Well, uh it just depends >> The camper's taking you. You're just hauling the truck along with the camper?

No. Uh it's a pull-behind camper. So, I'm hauling the camper. Okay.

>> And I need something reliable enough to get across the country if I need to. If

the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and Yeah. But they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60, right? Yeah.

Yeah. >> So, here's the problem. That $60,000 truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country. Which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country cuz the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear, that thing is plummeting in value.

So, that's what scares me is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now. Yeah. So, I would do some homework on that part.

Yeah. I'd rather you eat rice and beans for 6 months instead of a whole year. So, I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper.

And the way your income is, you could save up and and buy something used pretty quickly. And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. Lots of people selling used trucks out there. Yeah, for sure. And so, just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you.

Some people, like Jade, it took, you know, over 7 years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So, for you to be able to do this in 6 months, you're going to blink. You you won't even be able to drink yet and you're on your 21st birthday by the time you're debt-free.

Yeah. And just yeah, and just know, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like you got all the time in the world. You can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with. You don't have kids.

Like there's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So, just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in.

Okay.

I'm proud of you, man.

You're a a very successful 20-year-old with a good head on your shoulders.

Well, you made some mistakes. The good news, you know, anything that's vehicle-related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into 100,000 in student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree. >> Man, I wish you could.

I would have sold I would have sold mine off. If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available. >> And then it's like Men in Black, they do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well. Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned.

I think that, you know, I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific things they learned in college?

something like that where you kind of need to know some things. >> Where the funny bone is located?

Couldn't tell you what happened in small group communication theory. Oh, I don't even know what that is. >> Exactly. There you go. I just Uh as much as I don't like going to debt for vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, "Hey, you could sell the truck." That's a great >> Could sell the horse. Both are assets, technically.

You said it, not me.

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Micah is in South Carolina. Welcome to the show, Micah. What's going on?

Hey, Jordan and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. How are you guys? We're doing well. What's your question today?

So, I'm trying to help my mom and she is in a really tough financial position. I've been following the Baby Steps for about 4 or 5 years.

And I'm doing well going through it, trying to use my experience to help her.

And once we kind of got into the details, I'm kind of at a loss because I don't know how to help her. And so, I need some additional advice.

What kind of help does she need? What's going on?

So, she makes hardly any income. She's on Social Security. She's disabled. And she has uh for her, what's a a ton of credit

card debt. Um and she can barely make minimums.

Um so, long story short,

my dad died in 2013.

Um I grew up on the Baby Steps with him back when it was just radio.

Uh I hated doing it, but I helped dad do the finances. And then when he died, mom

ended up living off of credit cards for the last, you know, 12 years.

Um her and my brother and my sister all bought prop They sold family property.

They bought fam uh new property, paid for it outright.

And then mortgaged houses.

Um I kind of stayed out of it cuz I see what happens with family and money. I hear it all the time on here. Smart, man. >> And I've seen it I've seen her struggle.

Um and I've offered to help. And my sister and her My sister lived with her until she got married. So, the finances are very intertwined.

And I've offered to help and I've offered to help and I've offered to help and it's always been turned down by my mom and my sister. And I said, "Look, you know, the whole powder butt syndrome, there's not really a whole lot I can do until they ask for it." And so, she is a part of these properties?

Uh yes. So, mom mom owns a majority of

the land that's now all new family property. Um the land itself is paid for and she's got a mortgage on the property. How how much land? How many acres?

Uh collectively, I think between my brother and my mom and all of it, it's like 40 acres. Okay. So, how many people

are included in this land? It's your brother, it's your mom, your sister?

Yes. So, my sister just got married. Um

and the plan is for her to move back into the house to help take care of mom.

Uh she just had a baby. And so, all all

of that is a whole complicated They're all just living together in this commune on the land. >> What's what's it worth? >> Yeah, kind of. >> What's all that land and that with the house on it worth? I'm just curious.

Uh I don't I don't know as of right now.

I know they bought it for like nine an acre. And so, it's probably worth a lot more than that. Um Uh yeah, we're wondering is part of this part of it can be sold to clean up mom's debt since she's part owner. It's a lot of acres. Could you sell off 20 of it or however much needed to clean up her debt and give her a nest egg to draw from? I think it is. Um I think if I offered

that as a solution, that's going to be a non-starter. Um What is What is their solution so that mom doesn't just, you know, is mom isn't broke the rest of her life?

>> Right. Well, and that's that's where I'm kind

of as the outsider now, uh I'm trying to help her with what I can, but I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback. And so, I tried to just go, "Hey, let me

help you with your finances that you have now." And it's always been turned down until she called me in tears not being able to make minimums.

And I said, "I will I will gift you money, but I would love for you to let me help." And >> what she said was I've seen Now, she tearfully, you know, kind of depressively accepted. Okay. And then what happened next? >> it Well, so it gave us the opportunity to actually go through the numbers um and see, you know, what her income is, what her what her outgoing is.

And it's a lot worse than I thought.

>> What is her income?

So, she makes 1,800 bucks a month off of

Social Security Disability. Okay.

Nothing else. There's nothing else coming in. No there's nothing else coming in. >> No money saved, no nest egg, nothing anywhere except this land.

Correct. >> And is she paying the mortgage on her own right now?

So, she's paying a portion of it.

Mortgage is 875. She's paying 375 of it

and my sister is paying 500 of it.

Okay. Now, your sister, tell us about her because um she's living in the house

with your mom. She's paying the majority of the mortgage. She's has a stake in this land. What what is your sister say to all this? Do Have you got a Have you sat down with your siblings and said, "Hey, here's the deal with mom.

What are we going to do?" Yes. >> And what How does that go?

So, it it hasn't gone well. Um my sister

has not made very good financial decisions in my opinion.

She's going She's doing her own little, you know, debt consolidation thing right now that is, you know, they're letting it uh default and then she's, you know, paying them to do it. And I advise against it, you know, you know, trying to follow the teachings of of what y'all tell us. Mhm. And so she so she's not

currently living with mom.

Um she was living with her until she got married a year a year and some change ago. But she's just paying the mortgage even she's paying the mortgage even though she's not staying there.

Correct, because the plan is for her to come back and eventually when when mom dies it'll be her house.

So again, it's all very intertwined. Got it. >> Um but so so she's got $1,800 coming in.

>> Do you not think that cuz part of me is thinking, okay, if this plays out like you think it is, which is the track record is they're not the track record is they're not doing things the way you think you should be doing them. And they're not making smart choices. At some point this is going to implode. Do you not feel like when this implodes, that's when the sister's going to really the sister's going to be left holding the bag.

Because she's the one that's going to be living there and she's the one that's going to want the house. And in order for her to keep the house, she's going to have to sell off some of this land. And the creditors are going to come after the estate, which your sister's a part of. Right.

And so there's no way anyone's getting out of this scot-free here. And so for people who have a lot of plans, they are really terrible at planning. >> Mhm.

>> And I don't know how much you >> to stay out of it. >> Do you get any portion of this when this all like when your mom passes?

>> I I declined all of it. Okay, so >> because I know what it'll do and I was like I I I'm okay on my little half acre. Yeah. It's like inheriting a wasp's nest. You're like, no thank you.

You guys can take over that. You might need to step You might need to just step aside. And let them live and let them do what they're going to do cuz you said it you said it again and you said it again.

You might just need to let them lay in the bed that they made.

Well, and and as far as the land and all that goes, I 100% agree.

Um but as far as just her income and debt go, I've told her I was like, you know, there there's got to be a way. And so

like just her finances on her side alone, I I don't know like there's no way I don't really see a way for her to do the baby steps because she can't even meet the minimums. >> Yeah, but she could if she sold off some of this land. She's not asset-less and

she's making the choice. Do you know what I'm saying? >> there was no written agreement here with this land of what would happen, who wants out, how would they get out? Or someone going to buy her share. And I I advised them that they need to have everything on paper, notarized, and none

of that happened. Yeah, I don't know that she can force the sale of this land because she's a minority stake here. She Yeah, she >> So I would at least look into it with a attorney to see what the options are. I would try to influence your mom to say I want out to her to the siblings.

I don't think you can influence the siblings at this point. I think there's already been enough of a wedge drawn there that you're not going to have any make any headway there. So that's the sad truth of it.

They're not going to get paid before food's on the table. >> of what I That's kind of what I told her. And so I was curious, you know, a little additional advice in regards to that, she's barely making four walls in now. Mhm.

>> Yeah. Um and so >> make the mortgage payment, sister's going to pick up the slack, isn't she?

>> That's what's going to happen. >> Correct. That's on her. That's what happens when you, you know, cosign.

>> Mhm. And so that's what I would be doing is make sure mom is healthy, safe, has food, the lights are on, and I wouldn't pay the debts if you can't pay them. And next I would move to the mortgage if she can't pay it cuz someone else is on the hook for that and this is the price you pay. So I'm so sorry you're going through this, Micah. This is messy all around. I just don't see a happy ending here for anybody. The most you can do is just support her through this emotionally.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The number to call is 888-825-5225.

5225.

Let me see if I can find our question of the day here. It's sponsored by W Y Refi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default, but life happens and W Y Refi won't shame you. They'll help you explore a real plan to get back on track. So head to wyrefi.com/ramsey to find out more. That's the letter Y R E F Y.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. Cool, cool, cool. Today's question comes from Andre in Oklahoma. I didn't sing this time, George. >> Thank you. I'm 21 years old and have roughly $75,000 in cash. My vehicle and

motorcycles were paid with cash as well as everything else. My question is, if I was looking to be a risky investor, where are my best options?

What? That took a wild turn.

>> to get crazy. Did I read that right? I don't even know if this is a real question, but I'll treat it as such.

>> So he wants to invest the 75,000 in some

risky behavior, some risky business? I'm just confused cuz a 21-year-old must have worked their tail off to get 75,000 in cash unless it was inherited. And so he's worked hard to make sure everything was paid in cash, avoid debt, and now he's wanting to take on risk somehow to be a quote risky investor. So my first question is, why?

What is your actual goal? Do you want a million dollars by 25? Well, then what's behind that? You know, I want to get to the root of this cuz I think it's just young people going, well, I got to make a lot of money now.

Interesting.

Uh Well, you asked the wrong people. I don't do risky investing.

>> That would be very dumb. Yeah, I guess if you wanted if if if I was not me and I said I've got, you know, $50,000 I want to go throw at something, I'd probably just like put it all on black on crypto and hope for the best. Otherwise, just go to Vegas. Go sports bet on a parlay or something, but >> Yeah, I I day trade it and see if I could make a make a spread if I wanted to do the riskiest.

Oh, you could buy a Is it enough? No, I was going to say he could buy a Half a Bitcoin? I don't know what the kids are doing these days. >> since those are dropping like rocks.

That is definitely not investment.

A lot of people think cars are an investment, can I just say? When somebody buys a brand new car and they say, yeah, it was a solid investment.

I'm like, you're an idiot. I'm respectfully, that's the dumbest thing you could ever say that a new car is a solid investment. Moving on. >> got a I've got a buddy of mine and he's he bought like a Ford GT and it was like $340,000.

But he's like, well, it paid off cuz now it's worth 400-something thousand dollars. Certain cars.

>> is, you know, has to like keep it pristine in storage, can't drive it, can't enjoy it, can't use it. I'm like, dude, just buy some art if you want to just put something on the wall to enjoy.

So >> For real, for real. If you want to be an investor, I don't think risk should be a

major factor you're looking for. So I would personally just park it in an index fund if you want some flexibility with this money that tracks the S&P 500.

I would max out retirement accounts. I got it. >> And I would invest in yourself. At 21 you're doing this well, maybe start a business. That would probably be the the best quote-unquote risky investment I would make is all cash, start a business based on something you're really passionate about that you know a lot about that you think you'd be good at.

>> I got to believe there was a typo here.

And my guy just forgot one word. I think where he's coming from is because he's so young like he feels like he can invest in something high risk, high reward and let and has the time to make up for it, you know. >> Yeah, okay. >> he Basically, if he lost it all, he'd be like, okay, well, I'm 22 now with less money.

I'll be okay. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I just mean I think that's kind of what he's That's where he's coming from.

>> Is this you asking for a friend, James?

>> I go by Andre in the streets, so. No, James is an old man. He's not looking for risk at this point. He's just looking for some peace and quiet. I love that. Great question, Andre. Uh but when you say risky investor, it just like all of my red flags go up at once.

>> Right. Cuz I I want you to build wealth and keep it. And, you know, I I'm a man of faith. I love this verse from Proverbs 13, wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it. So that's the principle I live by when it comes to wealth building. I'm trusting, you know, Solomon over some dude on TikTok. I think the Bible has some great wisdom in that. So read Proverbs and then get back to us, Andre. Appreciate the question.

All right, let's get to the phones.

Pastor George has put his the pulpit down. Here we go. >> Also, James is now Andre in my mind from hence forth forever. So good. Aaron is in Denver up next. Aaron, how can we help today?

Hi, I'm next on my call.

Um but we're trying to do a essentially career change for my husband. Okay. And he's

done 20 years. We don't get a a pension, unfortunately, but he's done 20 years.

He's ready to switch careers.

Um but this career search is going to be a huge hit to our finances as we build up back, you know, some more experience in that new career. What's he doing now? >> to find out. So he's in law enforcement right now.

Okay. What's he want to do?

Uh he wants to fly helicopters.

Okay. And what does that process look like?

Uh he's already gone through all the certifications. He's actually teaching and working part-time right now. So he we've already gone through the schooling, you know, all the things he needs for that. What's the financial difference? So what what's he making now as a cop and what would he be making doing helicopters full-time?

Uh so that's the thing is like

So as a cop he's making 140 before taxes. Okay.

Um but flying he'll be essentially having that.

Having that? >> Until he can build up Yeah, having like Do you guys have any debt right now?

Just our house and child support. Okay.

Do you Could you live off of $70,000

today?

Yes.

There was a lot of hesitation there. Did you actually run the budget out?

I did. Um so I looked at, you know, I I followed the budget um to save up cuz we have I have about 4 months saved up

um for kind of where we're at right now to cover at least our, you know, child support and and house and utilities. You know, I have that saved up for 4 months.

When will the 70K go up or is that kind of just what a helicopter pilot makes?

Will it ever go up to 140?

Uh it may. Uh so it depends on your hours, right? Early hours cuz he only has less he has less than 300 hours right now. And to really start making like have a decent job, EMS, um

oil rigs, stuff like that, that's up after 1,000 hours. Up to like 1,200 hours. So he's got a a good way to go before he can start making comparable money to what we're making now. So I'm seeing on my screen here stuff about taking out HELOCs and pulling money out of retirement.

Where does that come into play? Yeah. So we're looking at cuz again like right now he's not really making like he's right now he's making $25 an hour and then if you when he makes, you know, after a little while he makes $30 an hour and then after 500 hours he can make $40 an hour.

And that that depends on how many people want to fly. So it's contract work. Got it. So it's inconsistent. And this is on top of his full-time law enforcement job. This is on the side, nights, weekends. Okay.

Well, we're Yeah, so we're looking at quitting next year so he can focus full-time on flying.

Okay. And building those hours quickly. So that's why we're looking at the money having that extra money or pulling the retirement it'd be my retirement. So he has his retirement and I have mine from when I I quit 2 years ago to be a stay-at-home mom. I would not pull from your retirement to do this.

Okay. I would If if anything if anything how how much have you calculated that you kind of need as a cushion to do this? So So we're looking at the

the 70,000 to cover our debts. Okay.

>> Like our our basics. So you need Um and You need 70,000 saved in order to make this transition the way you feel like you need to.

Yeah, for a year. That'll cover us for the year, yeah. Okay. So how quickly on

140,000 with no debt could you save up

that money? You already have 4 months of emergency fund, which is great.

How how long would it take you to do something like that? Because I feel like that's what's going to inform this. You can't go into debt over this because if you go and Let me tell you, if you pull out your retirement for this and for some reason it goes south or he doesn't make the money as quickly as you want to, you are going to be filled with resentment, he's going to be filled with guilt and shame and regret, and this is not going to be a good deal. >> unplugging all of that growth.

You're basically borrowing at 35% to with all the penalties and fees. The HELOC's going to put your house at risk and add more pressure to all of this. I would not do this. >> Nothing's on fire.

>> wait a year, save up the 70,000, live off 70, and save up the other 70, and then make the move a year from now as he gets more hours on the side. I just wouldn't rush this. It's going to add way too much pressure and stress to your life right now. And you'll know you can live on the 70.

Exactly.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Good news, Jade. I know you've been waiting for this.

Have I? The Christmas giveaway.

>> Oh, yes. I've been waiting. And not only is it a Christmas giveaway, it's a Christmas cash giveaway cuz we like to say cash is king around here. Each week someone's going to win 500 bucks and one grand prize winner will win $5,000. And

you can enter every day from now until December 20th. You can enter daily to increase your chances to win. Just go to ramseysolutions.com/giveaway right now to enter. No purchase necessary to win.

We're not going to be mad if you do purchase something, but you don't have to purchase something to be a part of the giveaway. I want to interview the people that win this and I want to know what they do with the money. I remember I was on the team, you know, for a long time now. So I've had a lot of jobs here.

And I was one of my jobs was email marketing. Uh-huh.

And tell them that they won? >> Yeah, and we'd do like I'd send the email like here's the winners for the week and all that. And so it was a lot of fun to get to be a part of the behind the scenes. I would hear like my coworker call the person to let them know that they've won. It was like a game show. It was so fun.

Yeah. >> on Put me on that. >> Real people win this thing, guys. We actually mean it. So there you go. Go enter. Jane is in Scranton, Pennsylvania up next. Welcome to the show, Jane. How can we help? Well, thanks for having me on. Sure. I'm calling for some advice on how to handle my 29-year-old son who's moved back home

to follow the Baby Steps Millionaire program. He wants to pay off all of his private student loan debt.

So he's moved back home. We're glad to have him. Um I'm nearing retirement age. My husband's been retired a long time. We're in decent shape financially, no debt at all. Good. >> But expenses are hard, you know, um

the cost of maintaining a home has increased, the cost of utilities, the cost of food, property taxes. So our

budget gets stressed a little bit from time to time, especially, you know, times of the year like this when the heat's on and So um I can't get the the >> to heat the house with him in it?

Well, not necessarily, but the cost of food goes up and, you know, just him keeping the lights on where that part of the house might have normally been dark.

>> Sure. The water the utilities will bump up a bit. He'll be eating your foods.

Your food bill's going to go up. >> Why don't you tell him he needs to contribute a little something something?

I did. So his response was Well, I I

asked him if he would take on one bill.

I said, "Just one bill. You can pick out whatever one you want." So I showed him my We have we have your budget app. So I showed him my EveryDollar budget and I said, "Pick one." And his response was, "Well, let me look at all of your bills so that I can see how you can cut costs so I don't have to do this." Let me tell you something.

>> Wow. That is maniacal.

How about this? You say, "You know what? Forget that plan. You're going to pay us $300 a month if you want to live here." >> Or you can just go live somewhere else.

That sounds good to me.

>> Man. >> But Is he working full-time?

Oh, he has a very good job with He's a government employee with a GS-13

level job. >> gosh.

>> Oh, well over $100,000 a year. And right now he's in the military. He's a high ranking officer and he's making all of his money tax free cuz it's an active duty deployment. And he won't pay one bill.

Well, how much private how much debt does he have? >> to. I'm sorry. How much debt does he have?

He has no debt other than the student loan. Okay, well, let's >> wanted to invest? >> No, no, he has debt. You said he has no debt except for all these Yeah, >> that is that's debt. If it ends with loan, it's debt. So, how much debt?

>> So, I think he's got he had well over a hundred thousand. He's down to about 35,000.

Okay. >> back in to pay off 35 grand making over a hundred. This feels crazy.

This is my son. Well, what was he doing before? You said yes to this. >> Was he renting before on his own or what? He was renting before on his own.

Prior to that, he was he was engaged to

a wonderful woman and he was living with her. They were supposed to get married in a couple of months and she just got So, you she got so frustrated with him being so cheap that she broke off the engagement threw him out. >> Okay, there you have it. And there you have it. So, this is a this is a character trait of he was cheap with the girlfriend. Possibly one of the reasons they were living together was so he could lower his expenses.

Cuz then right after that, he turns around and moves in with you. Do you know what I would do if I were in your shoes? I'd love to know. I would say he can't live here. I'd say I love you, but you can't live here. You don't need to live with me to pay off $35,000 of debt. You've got plenty of income in order to do that and I see this as a pattern. Sir, son, you need to

move out and you need to learn to open up the purse strings.

He is not struggling financially. Now, if this guy had just gone through a really tough time like obvi- like a divorce was on his, you know, had nowhere to go and he was really struggling financially. I'd say, "Hey, let's let's give him a launch like a little a bit of a hammock for six months to get him on his feet." This man doesn't need that.

I agree. And so, have you had that conversation?

Um no, we haven't had any kind of a hard

conversation like that because he has just recently moved in. We're talking just a couple of weeks. >> Okay. What's your husband say?

Um my husband is elderly. He's 25 years

my senior and at his age, he's just glad

to have him back in the house. I see. I see. Yeah, I would I would give a He's already in the house. So, I would just create a timeline and say, "Listen, I know how much you make. I know you can put this much toward the debt. So, if you do it this way, here's the rules.

And if you can pay this off in, I don't know, six months, let's say. Is that possible?" Probably, yes. >> That's 5,800 a month. Could he do that living at home with no expenses?

Absolutely, he can. I See, George is I'm

just throwing napkin math out there and she said absolutely he can cuz she knows how much he makes. >> Yes, but I'm like the boy must go. Yeah, I know I agree. But you've already He's literally made his bed and they're laying they're laying in it and so I would do that if my husband wasn't so thrilled to have him home. Here's what I think's going to happen. >> He can come over every night for dinner.

You know what I'm saying? This is true.

You know, this is we don't I cuz what I what I see happening because he he loves saving money. He wants to save a buck and and and what I see happening is he pays off the debt, then the next goal comes. Well, I want to save up X amount of dollars. >> I have enough for a down payment.

>> Yep, and it's going to the the goal post is going to keep moving and truly That's why I say as soon as you have this debt paid off, you're gone and that's going to be six months from now.

And we're going to have a meeting every month. You're going to show us the debt balance if you're going to be living here. Do you think he'd do that?

He won't. And and I so appreciate this

advice because I know he's listening.

Oh, good. Oh, man.

Let me let me send him a message. Let me send him a message.

Um sir, if you're listening, I think that you need to move out. I think that you need to learn how to handle your expenses. It's okay. It costs money to live. As an adult, it costs money to adult. That's rent. That's a mortgage.

That's paying for your own life and at the very least, if you are going to live in your mama's house, you need to pay for the electricity that you use and the food that you eat at 29 years old. All right, mama. I said it for you. Mom's going to apply for him to be on Extreme Cheapskates.

They're going to follow him around the house with the camera watching him mooch off of you guys and his elderly dad to save a buck while he makes six figures as a high ranking official in the military. And also, thank him for his service. Yes, thank you for your service.

He can't help it. He already lost a great woman over this, Yeah. That's true. You could have had had a really sweet relationship with this woman if it all panned out. >> he moves out, maybe he can get her back.

Now, that would be a love story for the ages.

One never knows.

He's going to go to the 25 cent rings to try to propose. That's probably She saw that writing on the wall and said, "No, thank you." That's not good. >> Goodness gracious. What an interesting conundrum. I'm trying to really put myself in her shoes. I couldn't. Now, here's the thing. This is where I'm a softy. If it was my daughter, I think I'd I'd treat it differently.

>> but here's what got me when she said, "Pick a bill to pay." And he's like, "Lo- Instead of me paying the bill, let me lower your expenses and crunch your budget and make you" Like that that got

me. Yeah.

The other thing that I've seen that can work decently is if you say, "Hey, you're going to pay 500 bucks a month to live here." Mom and dad set that money aside in a savings account and give it back to him when he moves out as a surprise. That's a nice gesture if you don't need the money. But truthfully, they were saying it's already a little bit tight.

Yeah, I yeah. >> they could use the extra money if he's, you know, mooching off the house and paying rank racking up the utility bills. I think that's fair. It's a failure to launch for me. It's a failure to launch. He has the money.

And he has the discipline. He does. He does. >> you're a high ranking official, you don't get there by being lackadaisical.

So, man, that's a tough one, but what a sweet woman. I get it. She's she's just too sweet for her own good and he's too cheap for his own good. [Music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Joey's up next in Orlando, Florida.

Joey, what's going on?

Hey, how are you? Doing great.

What's your question? >> having me. Um I so about two and a half years ago when we bought a house um and renovated this house kind of knowing it would be a really solid investment.

Um and knew that if we got too tight, something we could sell and and end up making some money on. We bought the house and got into it. What we didn't expect was to kind of fall in love with our neighbors and our community and now we've got uh four kids

and we've kind of built this community around us that uh the kids can kind of roam freely and uh really it's kind of become a dream scenario in that way, but we're living a little tighter than we'd like to. So, the question kind of comes down to should we uh be willing to sacrifice the community

and take the profit from the house and move that into something where we have a little bit more financial peace or do we stick it out and see if we can kind of grow our resources to a point where it makes sense to continue living in this scenario?

Wow, what's your mortgage every month?

Um it ends up being about 53

5,700. Woo. And how much do you bring home after after taxes?

Well, it's it varies because the way my wife or my wife owns some um

commercial real estate and I'm in the uh live production business. So, at

times we we get paid. We kind of do it more quarterly than monthly. Mhm. If you were to take the average over across the year, what would it be monthly?

Monthly ends up being a probably around $12,000 a month. So, yeah, you're you're feeling it.

You're right. You're you're starting to climb up to almost half of your take home pay being eaten up by the mortgage.

Do you guys have any other debt?

Uh no. We have a car payment and one car

payment and that's it. Okay. Has the mortgage always been this large?

Or did you roll >> Uh it has not. No, we actually our old mortgage um Oh, for this house, yes, it has always been this much. And how long have you how long have you been there? You've been managing almost half half of your take home pay going to this for how long? Uh about two and a half years. Okay.

Wow. What's left on the balance of the mortgage?

Uh a lot. Like a million? I'm trying to figure out what causes a $6,000 mortgage payment. It's about 500 and I think our mortgage is about 575. We still somewhere around 570 for you know, cuz Okay.

And what's the house worth?

It's worth about 1.4 currently. Nice.

You got a good amount of equity in there, which is awesome. Is there any opportunity for your incomes to grow sustainably to closer to 20 grand?

Yeah, I just started this job last January. Um and in my first year I I

doubled my salary from the previous year and there's potential for that to grow

Um again in the in the coming years.

So wait a minute. At one point this mortgage was even higher if you just now doubled your salary?

No, we So what we have done is

the community we live in has a lot of garage apartments that allow us to be able to take some of that income.

Uh so we actually rented out our garage apartment for the last 2 years. That brought in around $1,500 a month.

>> Understood. Okay. >> of of that. So On top of the 12 or so that you're bringing in?

Correct.

Okay. Yeah, I think I would feel good about this if we can make sure that both of our incomes are going up and over the next year there's a trajectory to get to that, you know, 20-ish mark cuz this mortgage isn't it's only going to go up at this point because of property taxes and insurance increasing.

Correct. So the only thing you could do to lower the payment long-term is refinance or do like a recast if you have a lump sum payment you make on that principal, you could recast it and then it'll just lower that monthly payment while keeping the same balance and term.

So those are the only two options you have other than selling, downsizing. Are

there cheaper homes in the same neighborhood that would allow you to keep the community? >> the same size, no. We have four kids. So

Yeah. Is there and you have no savings to speak of anywhere?

Um I have some but not much. We we would certainly like to build more margin in those areas. We're kind of at the point where we're How old are >> just now starting to get a little bit into that margin but How old are you?

We're at a point if our air conditioner goes wrong it's bad luck. Um I am 39

years old. 39 and there's nothing in retirement hardly?

No. No retirement to speak of. See that's that >> I was in ministry for 20 years and was kind of barely making it for I'm worried I'm going to tell you my worry and it's probably your worry too.

I'm worried that if you hang on to this too long you're going to miss out on valuable years of investing because it's going to take some time to to get this down because even to George's point if you say you start going on a positive trajectory for the next year even if you get it down to 40% it's still going to be taking away from your ability to do that. You know, we that's really 25% is where you want to be and even at 30 it's kind of like you can do it but I'd love for you to get it a little lower, right?

So I'm a little nervous about that.

I'm a little nervous. I'm not going to lie. I'm at the point where I I know the the financial uh the smartest move financially would be to sell and and take that money and to invest and start uh building that but the uh

the part that's hard is the investment into my children and into my family and so >> very tough. Is there I mean

I I feel you on that cuz I I have young kids and I think about the same thing sometimes. Um Part of that though I will say when you have a great community part of that is you as well because that means that you're the type of person who when you see other people you speak, you remember people's names, you make an effort, right? So part of that's on you and

Yeah, the fallacy is if we moved anywhere else we would never have a great community. And so you kind of have to take that part off the table cuz it's justifying staying in a in a bad situation cuz the overall fear is and you feel this too is the dream home turns into a night nightmare retirement.

Mhm. And you can't accomplish any financial goals but we can just survive in the house Yeah. for the time being.

And your payroll's not going down anytime soon. You got four younger kids.

How old are they? They're I've got from 1 years to 11 years. Yeah, and the 11-year-old before you know it they're going to be looking at college. So these are the things that are knocking on your door in the next 6 years or so.

Um I hate to tell people to sell their house. >> would give it a timeline and I would you and your wife sit down together and start to map out a plan and bust our butts to figure out what we can do career-wise. If we want to keep this lifestyle up here's what it's going to take income-wise and that means taking home 20 grand and the mortgage is now five or six thousand of that. And if you can get to that point in the next year and that might mean hey I got to start my own business here or you're going to have to go do this on the side to try to figure this out and see if it's sustainable.

Cuz making 12 your mortgage should be closer to like 3,000, 4,000 max versus

6,000. And so the these are the hard choices to make but I you're very thoughtful about this and this is a conversation for you and your wife to decide the timeline. We can't do it for you. Nothing's on fire but you can see the fire in the distance. That's the fear here, Joey. We're rooting for you, man.

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All right, let's talk real estate, Jade, shall we? It's it's on a lot of people's minds right now. >> Indeed it is. Indeed it is. Buying or selling a home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, conflicting data, fear-mongering and it's hard to know what's really happening in the market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000.

A typical season shift as we head into the fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers face a little more competition. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5.5% in September giving some buyers breathing room and since rates are unpredictable do not try to time the market. Just buy when you're financially ready, not when rates drop or when you hope they drop.

Jessica is in New York City up next.

Welcome to the show, Jessica.

Hello. Um 5 years ago my father gave me $60,000 for a down payment on a house

and he wrote a gift letter so that I believe legally I don't have to pay back that 60,000 but verbally he asked me to either pay it back over the years or have it taken out of my inheritance. And every year my father gives a gift to his

children, his four children in cash and

we can either take the cash or have it, you know, given back as part of loan repayments because we all use my dad as a bank in some way or another.

And this year my father very generously wants to give us 10,000 which is a huge amount and he wrote me an email saying I could take the 10,000 in cash but he really wants me to start paying back the loan with interest. It's now 71,000.

I didn't know there was interest. Uh interesting.

I know. So wait.

He gives he gives $10,000 every year but

that part is the gift.

It could be a thousand It's like his Christmas present. >> Got you. But this year he decides each year. This this year it's a big one. It's 10,000 and he's saying he's going to withhold that because you haven't paid back his loan/gift.

Interesting. I I could take the cash if

I want but he encourages me to start repaying the loan. Did you know the loan had interest?

No. Is this written anywhere? This was just a verbal hey you owe >> Verbal. And he expects that to hold up.

Yes. Goodness gracious. This whole thing just feels toxic. Is your dad controlling?

Uh not really. Um he shows

love I would say by giving money. You know, that's his connection to his children. That's But he gives it and then he's going to Is he going to come back around and say hey I gave you 10,000 for Christmas. I I would expect that back at some point. Yeah, why was the 60,000 suddenly a loan when everything else is a gift? Is that him trying to build some sort of responsibility into you? What What's the meaning of that?

I'm not sure. I'm I know he he's done it for all of his other children. They he helps them buy houses but I don't know the details of their financial situations like how much he gave to each of them and and who's paid it back and who hasn't.

Ooh, well I If I were in your shoes I'd be trying to get out of this loan as fast as possible because I don't like the way it feels.

What'd you use the 60 grand on?

A down payment for a house.

Okay. And you're living in that house now. Yes. With Is it just you or do you Are you married? I just got married a few months ago.

Okay, what's your husband saying about this? Does he know?

He He does know. I did talk about it with him and he said don't put it in writing. Don't respond to the email saying that I acknowledge the that there is a loan and just to to wait it out and see what happens with an inheritance whenever that may be. Who knows if it's 5 years, 10 years, 30 years. >> Yeah, but the In the meantime your relationship with your father is destroyed. And apparently interest is accruing. Yeah, I did the math for you.

It's about uh 40 3.4% compound interest.

Did he give you the option for it to be taken out of your inheritance? Did he give you that option?

Not in this recent email. That's just what I remember him saying, you know, 5 years ago. I'd do that. I'd say, "Yeah, Dad, if you want to take it out of my inheritance, that's good." And I'd get that in writing so that it's you're free and clear.

Because that's money that you don't have yet. It's not affecting your life today.

So, in you know, yeah, I'd do that. Can you afford to pay him back the 60 grand in a reasonable amount of time?

Uh no. I I could if he keeps giving me 10,000 a year, I could keep telling him, "Sure, put it back towards the loan." And it would be paid back in 7 >> I was going to say. Will he just apply the 10,000 say, "Hey, Dad, just take that off my loan balance." Which gets me to 61,000.

Back to square one. He would do that?

>> Yes. I I could do that. That's going to take 6 That's going to take 7 years.

Yes. And while interest accrues, it'll just keep climbing back up and then get knocked back down a little bit.

>> Ask him if he'll take it out of the inheritance. >> Can you like call him instead of like emailing like a transactional bank? Just

the whole thing feels odd to me.

I It's really more of a a moral question. That's why I I called because I just I wasn't sure how to handle the situation and really if I should even try to pay it back. I'd pay back the loan at >> was a loan and you knew it was a loan, you have to pay it back. Now, the interest part, I don't really like that he added that and you didn't know about it, but I do think that if if he had said, "I can just take it out of your inheritance." I'd go that route.

I'd just want it in writing so that this is over and done. The transactional part, I hate that it's like that, but we're here now, so you may as well cover your butt and get the fact that the whole loan is going to be free and clear covered in your inheritance.

>> to be hilarious is as part of the inheritance, he's going to go, "Well, it's now a $150,000 balance on this fake loan. So, that's how much I'm going to take out of your inheritance." Well, I That's what I worry about. I'd want it at the present value, not at a later value. >> point, I would say, "Hey, Dad, we never did this in writing. We should have.

That's both of our bad. We need something in writing to make this really clear of what your expectations are cuz I'm frustrated because you didn't explain any of this to me and now I owe $11,000 more to Bank of Dad while he's trying to gift me other money. This whole thing is strange and I don't know if you can see it cuz of your relationship with him, but there's just something odd about all of this." >> Mhm. I don't think I'd take any more money.

Okay. And this is why we tell people, "Don't loan your family money ever.

Yes, I appreciate the advice.

>> do I think you're a bad person if you don't pay it back and it gets taken out of the inheritance? No. But in the meantime, again, the relationship with your dad is gone as far as you know it if this isn't taken care of cuz this is looming in his mind every Thanksgiving, every Christmas when he's about to gift you more money, he's going, "Yeah, but should I? She owes me money and hasn't paid me a dime back." So, either get on a payment plan or decide it's going to be part of the inheritance at the current rate and just move on with your life.

Oh, man, that hurts my heart, Jade, cuz I just like I'm trying to picture myself in that dad's shoes giv- giving or loaning my daughter my grown daughter money and I just It's too much of a power play. Yeah, it just puts it makes you the lender and you know, the debtor and I just think that makes an awkward relationship for someone that you raised, that you love.

>> Mhm. If you love them and you want this to be a gift, let it be a gift. And if you're not comfortable with that, don't loan the money. Just say, "Hey, wish I could help. I can't." >> Right. I agree. >> don't cosign. Don't do any of that. But

the the middle ground is where things get messy. When you want to help, but it's kind of a loan. Yeah, it's just give people money, especially especially your family. I'm thinking about my kids right now and I'm thinking, "Yeah, if the time came and we Sam and I wanted to help them." We would just help them.

And it almost feels like anything else is an attempt to kind of try to control them from beyond. >> That's what I think there's something more to this and we couldn't pinpoint it. >> Mhm. I'm going to teach them responsibility, so I'm going to But I just wonder if he likes having a little bit of control because once kids are adults, they're kind of out of your control.

>> Yeah. So, you have to do things to pull them back in, yeah. Cast your spidey web on them so you have a little bit of connection there even if it's not a true, honest, authentic connection, it's still something that ties me to them that they can't get away from. >> Sometimes parents do that though.

It's so subconscious. Like they don't realize that that's the why behind what they're doing. Got to be careful. >> Yeah.

them more than Well, they show their love through money giving or loaning. I just I want them to know that's the last thing on the list. That's good, George.

>> So, that's just one man's take as a dad of a young daughter. Take it with a Take it with a grain of salt.

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Joshua is in Greenville, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Joshua?

Hey, Jade. Hey, George. How are you all?

Doing great. >> Thanks for answering my call. Yeah. What's going on with you today? >> Um So, I am struggling with got offered my

dream basically dream law enforcement job. I used to be in law enforcement um long story short, about a year and a half ago um I made a made a officer safety

mistake. I ser- I'm searching an individual and I'm I missed a firearm and brought him into the jail when I when I was arresting him and um so they they let me go for um failing

to uh conduct a proper search. Um

so uh and a guy that I used to work with, he's now works at a different law enforcement department and um offered me a traffic position like their their traffic unit um basically just stopping cars all day. Mhm. Um when I got fired, I became a truck driver um cuz my whole my whole family is in truck the trucking industry, so I just figured it was an that's that's the best thing to do was just go get my CDL and start driving trucks. But um it is a significant pay cut.

My my wife doesn't really want me to to go into law enforcement go back into law enforcement, but I just I really feel like that's my calling. So, I'm just trying to figure out how how can I have that conversation with her that that this is where where I I feel God's calling me to to be.

This is not financial at the core. This is safety at the core. Is that what it is for your wife? >> root of her not wanting you to do this? She Yeah, I think it's more so safety as far as well, you know, I'm I may go to work and and not not come home.

Okay. Is this position safer than your

previous law enforcement position or it's about the same?

No, it's it's about the same.

Um um Or is it worse?

>> is you're in the road and that puts you, you know, it's a little more hazardous in that regard. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, trucking is isn't the safest job out there either. Yeah, it's not the healthiest either.

No, I I also I'm I haul gasoline, so

that's That's an extra layer of danger.

A super flammable Yeah, okay.

>> say so. I stay away from those trucks when I'm on the road. >> if you give her facts and figures like, "Hey, this is how many trucking accidents and injuries and deaths there are per year versus traffic you know, department officers." Could you convince her of that or is it more just like emotional at this point?

I think it's more so emotional, but also

it is um it is a significant pay cut.

So, like right I do I I get VA disability. I get 4,300 a month from the VA for my military ser- for my military service. Okay. Um and then um

I make before taxes um about 1,500 a week with from the trucking. Uh-huh. Um but I would be going down to about 55 or 60

thousand a year if I were to leave truck driving and go into law enforcement. It It It would equate to about a 20 to 25,000 a year pay cut. Okay, my math was giving me 10 or 15,000 pay cut. Cuz you're making 6K a month now, which is 72 and you're saying you'd make 55 to 60. So, Ri- Right, but then also um

Well, I guess yeah, okay. I I guess I did my my math wrong. I just want to make sure not It's not to point out you're wrong. It's more to say, "Let's get the facts on the table. We're going to talk to wife about this and go, 'Okay, here's what this amounts to.

We're going to have a thousand less per month gross coming in.'" Now, can we survive off of my 4,300 plus the other

4,000? Should be able to.

>> so. And that's that's where I think it would help to actually make a budget based on what you would be making.

And then go, "Okay, how does this life feel? Does it feel tight? Can we still accomplish our goals? Can we still retire with dignity?" And then we can talk about the safety implications of the new role and how she feels about that. But, do you think it's something where over time she could change her mind about this if you kind of laid out the facts and figures?

I mean I I think so.

Um I think >> as well outside the home?

No. No, she's a stay-at-home mom. Okay,

does that add to this of her of her sort of um the safety gland, security gland flaring up here?

When you're the single income >> I guess if Yeah. Yeah. You guys have You have life insurance?

Um I actually just got a quote the other day through Zander, um but we have not actually gone like gotten the the life insurance yet. Good. I would do that ASAP, and uh don't delay on that. Cuz here's the thing, the more I know that my family's protected, the better I feel about whatever's going to happen.

And that's this we're betting on the you know the worst-case scenario. I hope you live a long, full life with no injuries or accidents, but the truth is we just don't know what life's going to throw at us, no matter what career you're in. And so, the more you can show her that you're being proactive, I think the better she'll feel about this, and it may take a little bit of time. You know, 1 month in is scary.

conversation, maybe she'll be warming up to it. I don't know.

Okay. But, I mean, this is going to be a a constant conversation in the house, and she's probably going to get sick of it. Mhm.

Yeah, I I mean, my take on it is they both I mean, obviously law enforcement has a level of danger, um but your other your other job

does too.

>> Yeah, both jobs are dangerous. So, it's not like you're choosing one that's a desk job and one that's, you know, risking your life.

>> So, that's where I think logic would help, but that's where I was trying to get to the bottom of where your wife is is at on this.

Cuz the pay cut doesn't concern me that much >> of a because you have your 4,300, which is stable, and you're not going You're not cutting the income in half. So, >> how much is your mortgage?

Uh 1,700 a month. Yeah, yeah, you'll be all right. >> That's reasonable. And you guys have any debt?

Uh I have um we we're actually we're in baby step two, so I have a um

two credit cards that are $1,000 each, and a $20,000 truck, and that's it.

Okay, here here would be my stipulation.

If you talk to her and said, "Hey, I'm not going to make any moves until we're completely debt-free with a fully funded emergency fund and life insurance in place, and I'm going to make sure to work my butt off to get our income back up." Would that change the conversation with her?

That probably would. Or hey, I'm willing to sell my truck to get us to a better place financially to make this move.

Would that light her up to go, "Oh my goodness, who is this person?"

Probably.

I would try all of the above to show her how serious you are about this, how passionate you are about this. And I think over time, if you make all of these moves happen, you lay it all on the table, you actually act the part, and do all of the work like I mentioned, I think it'll change the way she sees this. And even then, there's may always just be a part of her that doesn't like that you did this, but at the end of the day, it's either you being miserable in a trucking job and still have some safety issues, or you being really happy in this new position back to what you feel called to do.

Yeah, cuz there's part of this where I'm thinking you've been doing this job you were law enforcement the whole time for the most part that you've been together, so it's not like you made this radical change into this crazy field that she had no idea you were, you know, headed towards. So, that's the only reason I I I think it's okay.

That is tough. I'm just picturing you driving around with gasoline in the back, and she's like, "Well, that feels a whole lot safer >> feel good to me. than you standing outside of a church directing traffic or on a construct you know, while they're doing construction. >> stops, that's I mean, you got to pull people over, you don't know who's in that car. That window goes down.

>> That's the question, is he doing traffic stops? Is it more, you know, Yeah.

I just see him out there on Sundays, you know, doing construction jobs.

Is that Or accidents, you know, they might be out there for an accident, and that can be, you know, that's that can be scary. There's definitely some safety concerns there, but I just feel like it's it's not apples to apples, and neither are safe. So, let's at least be realistic about what the options are.

>> life on the edge. He likes it there.

He wants to be out there in the action.

Uh yes, he does. Somebody needs to do it. I did But, the other part is in the truck world, it just does feel like there's it's hard to be healthy. It's hard to live a long, full life and be physically healthy. into Wawa, you're sleeping in the cab, you're eating snacks, It feels like your your quality of life it's hard to keep that high while being in the trucking world. >> You'd probably have to work very hard to make sure you're getting the exercise you need, moving your body, eating healthy, sleeping well. It's a lot.

Man. Both tough jobs. I don't know, if you asked me to pick one, Ooh. I don't know.

I probably would choose I don't like being in the just driving that thing would freak me out. >> think I'd choose law Oh, boy. That's a hard one. >> pulling me over.

And I'd try to break you to see if I can get out of a ticket, and you would not be having it today. >> Nope, I'd have my notepad. Sir, did you >> Did you know you were speeding?

Oh, man, that We need to make a skit about that. That's good. >> is is expired.

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Our scripture of the day, James 1:5.

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him.

Jim Collins said, "Bad decisions made with good intentions are still bad decisions." >> Mhm. We get that all the time on the show here. Lot of good intentions.

>> You had You had the right idea in mind, just did it the wrong way. >> Well, I thought of they needed a co-signer. I thought I should co-sign to help them out. It's a bad decision with good intentions. It's a bad decision. >> Still bad. Rachel's in Minneapolis up next. What's going on, Rachel? How can we help today?

Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. I am 29

years old, I'm single. Um I was living with a roommate back in June, but I moved back home with my mom to help her out with the mortgage. She's having trouble paying it. Um she's 62.

She doesn't have any retirement. She actually had to liq- well, didn't have to. Catch my verbage there. Um she liquidated it back when my parents were married because she they were in a bunch of debt, and the divorce was really hard on her. This is like 15 years ago, but um I'm on baby step two. I've paid about $8,000 down on all my debts. I've got three left, so I'll be out of debt very soon here, but I'm just wondering, do I move out and just do life on my

own, or my heart is telling me that I should as the oldest sibling, I should help my mom pay off this mortgage because she only makes about 30,000 a year, and she can't afford it. Is she in bad health? Is she sick? No. No, she's

in great health. Then no.

Here's Here's the problem. Let's play this out. This is the rest of your life.

Do you really see a world where mom is like crushing it and has a paid-off mortgage and has retirement?

Or is this you needing to basically prop up mom's life while it stunts your growth personally, professionally, financially?

Yeah. And that's the hard truth of it. So, the next part is, well, then how do we get mom to a better place financially where she's still independent and doesn't need me or my money to survive. That's the ideal scenario, right?

Mhm. So, then it becomes, okay, could we sell the house and downsize or have her

rent and still cover all her bills and have some left over. That would be my solution if she can do that. So, what is the house worth?

Um on Zillow, it says it's about 304.

And what does she owe?

136.

Okay, so she's got some good equity in this. Mhm. Mhm. Would she be open to that idea, or no?

No. I mean, I've asked her what her plan is long-term, and she's like, "Well, I'll just, you know, sell the house one day, live off of that, and live with one of you guys." I have two younger brothers, and Did you tell her that's not an option?

I Yeah, I've been listening to your radio show for the last month now, and I've learned boundaries are, you know, you got to set healthy boundaries. Planning to be a burden is a bad plan, and that's what she's doing. Yeah. And as long as you're communicating that to her, and it's not just a cuz sometimes what happens is people are like, "I have a boundary, that's not going to happen." And but it's like internal, you haven't told them.

So, as long as you're uh telling them verbally, and it's an expectation that you're saying, "Here This is my boundary. I just want to make sure you know.

married with children, and by the time you're ready to, you know, live move in with me, I might be getting married. I might be in a part of my time in my life where I don't want an extra person living in the house. So, I'm letting you know that today while you're still very young, and you still have, you know, 10 years to really financially affect your situation." We had a call like this earlier today. Um but I want to tell you uh Rachel that sometimes we do have a picture in our mind of, especially people we love, how their life should look, whether it's your kids or even your parents, especially as they get older.

And then when it's not like that, we put so much effort into trying to make it like that. And we'll go to extents.

We'll go I I feel it. Like we'll go to so many extents to create the life that we saw for our own parent. And you just

can't do that because it's you trying to control and you're like Geppetto trying to, you know, control the way the story ends. And you just Sometimes you just have to throw your hands up and go, "It's not my life." And to quote John,

you kind of have to grieve that and go, "Man, I I thought it was going to be one way, and it looks like she's kind of going to struggle." Unless >> you didn't intercede, she's going to get foreclosed on if she misses enough mortgage payments. She knows that, right?

Yeah, and I mean, my brothers and I would have stepped in, but I personally feel guilty because I I'm getting a good deal living here. Like we're splitting the mortgage, so I'm paying, you know, $775, which is significantly cheaper than anywhere else I would get rent. And that's half the mortgage?

Yeah, yeah, we're splitting it right now. So, the minimum payment's like 15.

But like I'm she's helping me out in a way because I'm saving money and able to pay off my debt and then I'm going to start building up my emergency fund and saving up for a down payment.

>> But at some point, you're going to move on with your life and maybe get married.

And so it's artificially propping up her life right now because she makes what?

A little over $2,000 a month?

Yeah. >> And her mortgage alone is 1,500, and that doesn't include insurance, food, utilities. But you guys are in the same situation. The same way you're using this as an advantage and saying, "Oh, I can lower my expenses by living with her, and in the meantime, now I can take my extra money and do this." She can do the same thing.

She can say, "Oh, this is a great time.

I can take advantage of the time that my daughter's here covering half the mortgage. Now I can go out If I make more money, I can make more headway with it." Do you see what I'm saying? You're in the same boat. You're just choosing to take the paddle and row forward, and she's just leaving the paddle in the boat and hoping that you'll row for her.

And planning to live off of $150,000 for the rest of her life is insane.

And I don't know if she knows that yet.

And I guess she's assuming that you all are going to just going to fund her life and pay off her bills, so she won't have to even touch that money. But you need to make it clear that's not going to work. That's not the plan.

As much as she wants it to be the plan.

And so that might be convincing her that she needs to sell this house and downsize to a $200,000 condo or townhome, something she can afford, maybe further out than she wants to be, so that she can afford this mortgage. So the mortgage is $600 instead of 1,500. And now she can survive on her own. It's not a great life. She still needs to get her income up cuz she's going to have to work for the foreseeable future, right? She has no retirement, no savings.

So, we did actually stumble upon a 33,000 dollar pension that we're rolling

over into an IRA, like a a Roth IRA.

>> Good. So, I was planning on putting it in some some mutual funds like you guys suggested. Hopefully, you know, every 7 years it'll double. So, I'm We've got that at least. That's something. Maybe one day she can utilize that. It's not enough It's not like woo. It's like finding 20 bucks in your old coat pocket. You know, it's not like winning the lottery. So, it's great, but she still needs something sustainable. And that I don't know why she's only making $14 an hour at 62. What is she doing full-time?

So, she's a tailor, but she also

sells custom men's clothing.

So, that feels more like a side job.

>> like commission?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I would try to find something that's She needs something stable right now. And if she has that skill set, I think she can be making more if she's hustling.

I know it's not fun at 62 to be working harder than you've ever worked, but you need to let her feel the fire that's in her life right now. >> And she's she's healthy, man. 60's the new 40. Yeah, I mean, that's younger than Dave Ramsey, and that man is not stopping anytime soon.

>> day every day. Yeah, I I think you got to give her more credit. She's She's not elderly. She's not, you know, It's not like she can't go out and and do some hard work today.

Yeah.

I've asked her about, you know, increasing her income, and she is I don't know. She's just not very motivated. Like she's just like, "I can't go out and You know what motivated her? Not being able to make her mortgage payment cuz daughter moved out, and now I have to do this. And right now, there's a little bit of almost enabling to where she's a little comfortable cuz she's got you to float the gaps, right?

Yeah. And I think discomfort is what she actually needs right now. As cruel as it actually feels, it's the healthiest thing you can do for a grown adult to get them on their own feet versus artificially propping them up. So, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

It is so much easier said than done. And if this was my own mom, I would be having the same feeling as you. You want to do anything to help them out. But again, you're not in a place of strength to even help her out.

You're also struggling financially trying to pay off debt. If you had multi-million dollars, I'd say, "Hey, just pay off her mortgage and and, you know, help her out here." But you're just not in a position to do that at this stage of your life, and that's okay. So, good luck with the conversations. I hope we can get her to a sustainable place where she feels motivated, independent, and you're not her retirement plan.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

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## 15. Bigger Financial Problems Leave Less Room for Bad Decisions


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:38:13 |

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>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

And I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of SmartMoney Happy Hour, George Kamel. And we'll be answering your calls, [music] so give us a call at 888-825-5225.

And we'll be talking about your life [music] and your money. First up, we have Jimmy in Los Angeles. Hi Jimmy,

welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel. Hey George. Big fan of y'alls. Thank you so much for what you do. I really appreciate everything that you guys do. And I've gained a lot of knowledge these past few weeks.

I'm learning more about what you guys do and how to kind of like financially plan my future. But, I've kind of gotten myself into a sticky situation and um

I'm just trying to see if I can like maybe get some guidance on trying to find a way out. >> Sure. So, what's going on?

>> So, late 2024, you know, I retired from the military. I served for 22 years and

earlier that year I decided to open up like a kind of like a shop and

where we just do like detail services, paint protection film, wraps and things like that. And um yeah, it actually cost me a lot of money throughout that year. >> I'm sure. How much? >> Um to the point Uh well, we're at a point now where we're like

like $580,000 in debt at this point.

>> Okay. >> Um that first year we took like a $220,000 loss. Um admittedly, I think I

hired too many people full-time.

Um kind of went in too fast and uh

too hard on that and um

Yeah, it kind of really hurt me. So, I had to take I had to take like an SBA loan to kind of get caught up and >> [gasps] >> used a bunch of credit cards and then the year after um it we netted So, just last year, we

netted about 35% net loss. So, we had

another net loss, but it was a better net loss.

And um >> You're still throwing money at this thing. >> I'm still throwing money at this thing.

I mean, it seems like you're kind

>> Oh, it seems like we're we're kind of like making a way out of that and

>> what's what's the stop loss here? A million dollars in debt and then we'll call it quits? I mean, at some point you just got to go this ain't it.

I would rather pack it up now versus try to It's like a gambler where they lost a bunch of money in Vegas and they go back to go like, well, now I got to win even bigger to get out of this mess.

>> Right. That's what I was afraid of and and you know, through this process, I've kind of been, you know, free labor. So, I haven't been getting paid by my business. >> On top of that, you're How are you paying your bills? Through more debt?

>> Um >> Do you have retirement through military?

>> I do. I do. >> that per month? >> wife My wife works, too.

Uh I pull in about 5,500 take home per

month um from my military retirement and then she makes about She makes about like take home 4,500-ish

per month. >> Okay. So, 10 grand a month is what we're taking home. And that's that's the hard truth is that's the number we need to actually pay down this over half a million dollars in debt.

>> Right. >> What does the trajectory look like for revenue?

>> Um it's it's it's looking positive.

Um cuz you know, last year as I said, even though we had a a net loss, um it was a smaller net loss, and I think this year we'll be in the positive.

But I'm struggling because like I've been working for free for 2 years essentially in this business. >> Well, and digging deeper in debt. I mean, 35% loss. I mean, this is just a >> Yeah. >> very expensive hobby at this point. This isn't a business. >> Even if it breaks even, this isn't worth it. >> No.

>> Right. >> Um >> Well, I was afraid of. >> Yeah. Um Jimmy, what when you when you project out, what do you um with all these loans, how much is the is it half a million now or how much debt in general, I'm just trying to I'm trying to project out like what by I don't know, in the next like month or two, like how much total debt are you guys in?

>> So, I've I've written everything down.

So, as it stands right now, um

on the business side, we're at $580,000

in debt. Um I know I have a PhD in being a bozo.

Um >> How much of that's credit card and how much of that is small business loans?

>> Um so, 165,000 of that is credit. And

then the rest is split up between SBA

working capital and a line of credit.

>> Okay.

Cuz I'm just thinking the credit cards, you know, if you get behind, those will be easier to settle than some of these loans directly >> SBA loan >> from the bank. >> What does your wife think about this? What does she think you should do?

>> Uh she's not very happy with it. Uh but she's been very supportive and very understanding throughout the process. So, an absolute blessing to me. Um definitely not an added stressor. She's She's been an anchor for me, for sure.

Um >> Yeah, I I mean, a little bit, Jimmy, but a part of me also is like, are you guys aren't living in reality? Like, she should be kind of flipping out. Do you know what I mean? I'm like I mean, I understand that the anchor of of feeling supported, but you're you're feeling supported in doing something that's continually getting you guys deeper and deeper into a problem versus saying, "Stop. Stop where we are and we're done." Because we can't just keep doing this. And the problem, too, is that the guesswork um, for what you're

possibly going to do this year, I mean you know what I mean? It's like, you can't you can't predict it. And and so, you guys either have to say "We're going to try to stick this out for a year with no more debt. No more debt. And if that means we have to close up parts of the business in order to do that okay, to see if we can get some revenue in here." But, you guys can't just keep digging yourselves in a hole and expect just to come out the other side.

>> Right. Right. Very true. >> So, I would sit down and you guys I mean, you either need to make a decision. If you were to stop this completely, do you guys have um, things

that you can sell off in the business? Like, is there any way that you could gain any of this money back if you were to close shop today?

From like, a real estate perspective or like, you know what I mean? Um >> Equipment you have in the business?

>> Yeah, I have about $50,000 worth of equipment, but I I think that's tied up in the SBA loan. They they would have to, you know, I'd have to get permission to to sell that off to pay that loan down. >> Yeah. >> And that's why I was like, worst case, you know, I I I'd I'd I'd really want to avoid bankruptcy. It's definitely not my first choice. And um, I even thought about getting like, a job. Uh, like

so I can just get some sort of income and then using that job to pay down this debt.

But, since it's a business, I don't really want to like, create murky waters with me paying off business debt with my own personal income. but >> It's all It's all tied to you anyways, Jimmy. >> Go back to the papers. Look who signed it. >> It's you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's all They're all going to come for you.

>> It's not like Car Detailer LLC, well, they owe the money, not Jimmy.

>> Right. >> It's guaranteed by you, and so that's the That's the hard news, is you have to now picture this like it's just consumer debt that you took on.

And so, you're you're going to begin the business of cleaning it up, and I hope that you can find a new job uh that can

create a better income that will allow you to clean this up faster. But, if you just even sell the 50 grand worth of equipment, that's 10% of your debt you just knocked out. And so, you got to start making progress. I would not sink more money into this thing just to be 600,000 in debt, 650, and hope we have less of a net loss.

Uh, I'm heartbroken for you, man. Thank you for your service, too. 22 years, that's that's incredible. I hope you guys can climb out of this.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years and so has my family. >> So, don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music]

[music] >> George is up next in Newark, New Jersey.

George, welcome to the show.

Are you with us? >> Uh thank you. Thank you. Sorry about that. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Uh yes. >> What's going on? >> How's it going, guys?

Rocking and rolling. Um first of all, you guys are awesome. Uh I've been working with you all for maybe like uh going on 2 years. About to be debt free this year and everything like that working with the >> Nice. >> Smart Vestor Pro in Maryland.

>> Oh, good. Amazing.

>> Um I had a quick question for you. Um hopefully uh this is your area of expertise. If not, then hopefully you guide me in the right direction. I um before I was working with you all, I you know, I was ignorant to a lot of stuff.

So, I had um got mixed up back in maybe 2016

with a um a guy from my gym. Uh long

story short, uh he's he was running a LLC or supposedly and um I was investing

into a high interest savings account.

>> Mhm. >> Um so basically I got scammed, long story short. Uh he got me for 38 grand.

>> Oh, no.

>> And then I hired lawyers lawyers and everything like that. Um so I all in all I was out maybe like 40 about 45 grand.

>> My gosh, George. >> Awful. >> I'm so sorry. Was it like a Ponzi scheme kind of thing or like a like or he would take your money and invest you know put it somewhere else and he would make a difference and then he ended up not and lost all your money?

>> Exactly. >> Oh, man. I'm so sorry.

>> I um you know, again this is before I met you guys. I wish I would have met you guys sooner, but um that's done. So it's kind of a thorn in my side cuz I'm trying to figure out whether I should continue going after him because um I already went to court.

We already got the judgment. He didn't show up and everything like that. Um you know, he got served and everything, but the thing is you know, I had to learn about the law because the judgment is just basically toilet paper right now because he got rid of all of yeah, exactly. >> doesn't have assets doesn't have income you can garnish, there's not much they can do.

>> Basically that's basically what I what I want to do. >> say you've been chasing for 4 years, who who is actually been the person trying to track him down and and get him to pay? >> Uh uh I hired a um a debt collection company.

And then um at first it was you know, it was free and everything like that because uh you know, they would they you know, if they get paid I get paid kind of kind of deal, but then after maybe like a year or two, then they want they asked me if I wanted to like increase the some some kind of excuse they gave me and it was like another two grand or whatever. I think to to push that forward cuz this is during the pandemic.

>> Yeah. >> So, to push like paperwork forward and so that added to the money that I'm out and I wanted to see if you guys think I should just count it as a loss or just, you know, cuz without assets, you know, now that I know that it's just >> Yeah, that's my fear. You spend 25 grand chasing this guy down and then it turns out you don't get a dime from him. Well, now you just lost another 25 grand.

So, it may be time to emotionally write this off and call it a stupid tax and move on. >> Yeah. >> If it's been 4 years, I mean this is this is weighing on you. It's living rent-free in your head and I think it's time to move on.

People do all kinds of dumb moves and lose 40 grand. You know, I went in 40 grand of consumer debt back in the day.

>> Got you. Okay.

I figured that. >> I'm so sorry, man. >> George. >> I'm like like when I I'm like a dog who's like I want to I want to get this guy.

>> want justice, right? >> go full John Wick, man. You know, but at some point >> $38,000, you know, it's not $3,800. Like that's a lot of money.

>> It's a lot of money. >> Yep. >> But, the crazy thing is is I do think once you emotionally kind of just get over it, right? You detach and you're like, okay, I'm moving on.

Um you start to really really see what you can do and what you have the power to do. As you're experiencing now, I'm baby step two, George. Like you're getting yourself out of debt. Like that money will come back, right?

>> Sorry you're dealing with that.

Maybe this will get you debt-free faster if you allocate all of your energy and focus and resources towards that, I think you'll feel a whole lot better and it'll be a fun story you share with your kids one day when you're a multi-millionaire.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's >> That's tough luck, my friend. Oh, that's brutal. Rachel, it reminds me when I got scammed long ago. Fraud happened. People opened up AT&T accounts, Verizon accounts under my name, social security number, past address, racked up 1,700 bucks on both accounts, never paid a dime, and so I had to deal with that.

And luckily I had Xander ID theft, and so they stepped in and helped clean this mess up. But I found who the people were cuz I was a sleuth.

>> You found who it was? Like the individuals? >> Yeah. And I really wanted to go full, you know, wishbone on the case and go, "I'm going to investigate. I'm going to bring them to justice." And then I just like I'm like, "What am I doing? What am I doing?" >> Drew. >> I don't know how dangerous these women are. >> Yeah, was it women? >> It was two women. >> No way. >> Still have their names. >> Here? Like in America? >> They were in Boston, in the Boston area.

I lived in Tennessee at the time, but they opened these accounts up in Boston, so >> George. >> Yeah, there you go. I'm not going to I'm going to I'll leave that for a future investigation, but goodness gracious.

It's hard It's a hard pill to swallow when it happens. All right, Dominic is in South Bend up next. Dominic, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. >> What's going on?

>> So, I've heard you guys speak about zero credit score and buying houses with manual underwriting. >> Mhm. >> I purchased a home years before hearing about you. So, having zero credit score when buying my next one won't be an option.

>> Sure, you have a credit score now due to your mortgage payment.

>> Correct. Is that a loan going to be enough to maintain a good enough score or what's there?

>> Have you made your mortgage payments on time? >> Yeah, that's >> Great. You likely have a great score.

So, there's no need to open up new credit accounts and credit cards to try to increase it. When you go to get another mortgage, they're just going to look at yours and go, "Okay, is your debt-to-income ratio good? Do you have a history of on-time payments?" And they'll grant you that. So, unless you Have you checked your credit score? Is it in the tank or is it solid?

>> No, it's solid. I just I wasn't sure if just a mortgage alone would be enough in the future >> Yes. >> or if they needed more history.

>> No, you'll be good. And if you ever have a questions about it, you can always contact, you know, Church Hill Mortgage and they can walk you through what they actually look for. But you're this the score is the score. That's what they're looking for. And so, they're not going to say, "Well, you don't have enough types of debt." That's all factored into your score. And so, if your score is solid, you're going to be fine. And once you pay off the mortgage, then 6 to 12 months after that, your credit score will disappear again.

>> Okay. >> And so, you'll go back through that process. But you're on you're on the path, man. Good for you. How long until you pay off the house?

>> I don't think I'll pay it off.

>> Not with that attitude, Dominic.

What's left on the mortgage? >> home. I still owe 160 on it. >> Okay. >> Cuz you're saying you'll probably move homes move houses before you paid off.

Got you. Got you. Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Yeah, no, that's a but it's a good question because we do talk about people not having to worship at the altar of, you know, the credit the the FICO score or the credit score because you can actually get a house called you know, through manual underwriting. But if you have a bad credit score and you go to apply for a mortgage, they're going to pull your credit score regardless. >> That will hurt you. >> Yeah, so if you have one that's undetermined, then you can do manual underwriting.

But if you have a bad credit score when you go and get a mortgage, and as you're getting out of debt, George, for a lot of people, consumer debt, your score will lower as you you know what I mean? Like as you're starting to get out. >> That's how stupid the credit score game is. You're like, "Wait, I'm doing good things.

I'm knocking out debt." And they're like, "Yeah, but we don't like that." >> I know. >> We'd rather you keep it around and pay it perfectly. >> Yeah, so on baby step two, you guys, if you're paying off your debt and then you try to go and get a mortgage, which is not part of the you know, that's baby step 3B, but if you try to do it earlier and they pull your credit score, it may not be great because you're paying off your debt, your consumer debt.

So, your credit score will not be in the tank as long as you actually close all accounts. >> Yes. >> If you still have any accounts open or you still have a credit card open, that will show up on your credit report and keep your credit score alive. And so, make sure when you pull that credit report, nothing is active.

And then, 6 to 12 months later, there's no real exact timeline, but that's what I've experienced and many that I've talked to, your credit score just becomes indeterminable. It doesn't actually go to zero. >> Yeah, it's not actually a technically a zero credit score. >> We just like to say that cuz it sounds cool.

>> It's fun. >> Zero What's your credit score?

>> Zero. I don't have one. >> That's the real flex. And that's honestly how they operated back in the day, like in our parents' day.

The credit score has only existed since the '90s. So, before then, you're like, "Well, how did people get homes?" Well, they looked at your actual tax return, you had a relationship with the bank, and they looked at your income and savings.

Like, they looked at you as a person, which is what manual underwriting does, anyways. >> Instead of the computers going, "Good credit score, give them a loan." And so, it's really not that difficult. I've done it myself. I'm alive to tell the tale. So, it's worth pursuing to become completely debt-free, and then do it the right way.

>> [music]

[music]

>> At Ramsey, we don't partner with companies chasing trends or pushing gimmicks. Trust is earned, and that's why we send people to Fairwinds Credit Union. See, a lot of banks rely on teaser rates, marketing hype, and fine print, but that's not how Fairwinds operates. They've been serving members for 75 years, and you don't last that

long by cutting corners. You last by serving people well. There's a reason their name is on the studio wall. They built products that help you manage money intentionally, not pull you into

debt. If you're looking for a practical way to organize your money the Ramsey way, check out the Fairwinds Smart Bundle. It pairs a high-yield savings account for your emergency fund with a checking account that doesn't drain your balance with fee after fee after fee after fee. Open your Fairwinds Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsey

and get the Ramsey B Weird debit card.

That's fairwinds.org/ramsey.

>> Insured by the NCUA.

>> [music]

[music] >> Trina is in Florida up next. Trina, welcome to the Ramsey show. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Hi, I'm so excited, you guys.

>> We're excited as well. >> you called, Trina. Now, we're excited to talk to you.

>> Okay, guys. I'm having this like issue.

I always said I wanted to retire by the time I was 40.

I am almost 40. >> Wow. Wow.

>> It's an aggressive plan. >> My dad did it twice before he turned 40,

and I'm just like >> Wait. You can't Wait. You can't get my Wait. >> [laughter] >> Hold on. He retired twice? What do you mean?

>> So, he retired from the city, and then

he retired from boxing. So, he like got to retire twice before he turned 40.

>> Was he a He said boxing?

>> Yeah. >> If he was a professional boxer?

>> Yeah, he was like semi-pro.

>> That's pretty cool. >> But he Did he have to do it to earn money?

Yes. >> Okay, so he didn't really like get to retire. >> He was semi-retired while semi-pro, and then fully retired. >> Okay. >> I'm just trying to relieve some pressure for you of like the reality.

>> [laughter] >> from then? You're You're "I want to be like Dad. I want to retire by 40.

>> Well, I It inspired me. Yes, I've always been like that. I've always been like a overachiever, a workaholic.

>> I'm like, yeah, an aggressive goal, you know, of something big that you're like, I want to work for that. I get that. Okay. Okay. Perfect. So >> So yeah, how can we help?

So I ran into a financial situation.

It's not a lot of debt.

It's like $24,000 worth of debt and I make about 60. So I want to pay this debt off and I'm working on that.

>> Um it's like 20,000 in a car.

Um like 4,000 about in um personal loans

and like 2,000 in my son's private school

that I still owe.

And oh, credit cards, like 16,000 in credit cards. >> Woo. 16,000.

>> like a recipe to early retirement.

>> [laughter] >> Like if I was trying to retire early, I'd probably go, "Hey, I'm going to make sure I don't owe people money and have money saved on top of that." >> I know. >> So how long how long has this been floating around? How long have you had this debt for?

>> Um so I filed a bankruptcy about 2 years

ago. Um this is when all of this started. >> So all of this debt was post bankruptcy or did it get What do you want a payment plan? What happened?

>> Um so actually the only debt that I don't technically

like I don't have to pay back um one of the personal loans, uh one of the credit cards and yeah. >> Because of because of the bankruptcy?

>> Because of the bankruptcy. And the issue is that I want to keep the relationship with that bank and I want to pay them their money back cuz I never wanted to put the items in bankruptcy. I was still

paying it, but they said that because I filed a chapter 7 that they had to put it in the >> What caused you to file bankruptcy 2 years ago? What was the What were your numbers then?

>> So then I was making about um it kind of flip-flopped. I was making about 40, then I went back to 60.

Um then I think before that I made 80.

Um so what happened was I was working for this company. I had moved. I was working for this company.

Um basically I decided I wanted to open up my own company because we're under government contracts. We have a certain criteria that we have to meet.

When I said that I wanted to open up my

company, the government agency said that they had

to take away all my clients. So basically I went from having, you know,

a a decent income to like having nothing the next day. >> Okay, and it was all because of this new business. >> Yes, and >> never took off, but you took out loans to float the business for a bit, and that's what caused the bankruptcy.

>> No, so when they took my clients, um it

took a while. It took about a year and a half for me to open up and to get clients. So I started having clients in

September. I had like maybe 15. Um now I

have like 25. So and that's all I need financially. >> Okay, yes, but Trina, I'm I'm What caused the bankruptcy 2 years ago? That was it consumer debt? Was it business loans? What was it?

>> So I had these um student loans, and I

put them in a adversary proceeding where I filed bankruptcy to get rid of the student loans while I was waiting for my

agency to open. When the agency

um when the agency didn't take off right away, I started using my kids college funds, my retirement.

>> I started pulling everything out.

>> Okay. >> And so, I started lifting

um and I started working as with another company, but that company just didn't pay that much. I was working there. >> Okay, so Trina, I have a new goal for you. I think instead of retiring at 40, we are going to learn to live debt free.

>> Which I usually do. But this was like >> Trina, so far it's been everyone else's fault and the government took your clients away. >> No, no, I'm not saying she's pushing on everyone's fault, but like no, Trina, you got to be able to say like I I yes, I I'm used to living with debt though from student loans to where you are now. There's a pattern of you using debt. Can we say yes to that?

>> Oh, that makes sense, yeah. I wasn't looking at it like that. Sorry. >> Nope, you're great.

No, I just want to make sure we're we're tracking. So, I think in order to have a completely new mindset with money from where you've been of saying I'm living completely debt free. It Debt's not an option. Debt is not an option.

I'm going to save up and pay for things. I'm not going to be making unwise decisions about purchases and pulling money out of retirement or kids college or investments cuz that's not wise, right? We um that stuff is all for the future and I'm going to learn to live within my income and my means.

making hard decisions about lifestyle and about, you know, yeah, I mean, life choices and everything. And so, I mean, genuinely, I would make that the goal. I would make it a aggressive goal to

get out of debt in I don't know what, 2 years? Like make make a make a goal to

aggressive goal to get out of debt, to save up a fully funded emergency funds.

Um >> And freeze your credit. That way it stops you.

2 and 1/2 years is you're fine. Okay.

>> Okay, that's so great. >> We never even got to your question, Trina. I'm sorry. There's so much details to jump into. What is your actual question we can help you with?

>> Well, I wanted to basically flip this piece of property. They have a piece of land that's for sale that hasn't been impacted yet. I wanted to do like a creative finance to see if I >> no, we're off the path. Remember 10 seconds ago what we talked about?

>> [laughter] >> Creative financing just means, "Hey, I'm going to do stupid with home stairs."

>> Yeah, okay. So, so how would you answer how would you answer this now? Trina, answer your own question with your new goals in mind.

>> So, I am going to stick to my 2 and 1/2 year budget that literally just got fixed this month. >> Yes, and that's what we're talking about, Trina. See?

>> Exactly after that, and then

maybe save the money instead of >> Yes, look at you. >> And how old how old are you, Trina?

>> I'm 38. >> 38. Okay, can I tell you if you don't retire by 40, you're not a failure?

>> I promise. >> just promise you that? If you don't retire by 60, you're not a failure.

How about this? You're not a failure, period. >> Aw. >> There you go. That's the most encouraging thing I've said today. >> I think Rachel can attest [laughter] to that. >> But the truth is, I we have these aggressive goals, and we need to create actions to get there, and we can't hold ourselves to these goals because life is going to happen.

And so, it's okay to pivot the dream, but one thing we can't do is pivot and going backwards and rob our future, rob our children's future. You are worth more than that. And so, from today forward, you're a person who doesn't go into debt, who doesn't owe people money.

>> And all your decisions can be based off of that value system cuz that brings you freedom, Trina. There's no shortcut.

There's no like, "Okay, I can do this creative financing here and do this, and I'll make 20 grand just like that, and look at that." Like, that's not that doesn't work. That's not the real world.

It is it is hard work. It is the long

game. It is a marathon. It's not a sprint. And it's just a different mindset you have to be in to get true financial freedom and true control over your money.

And so, you do have to shift the way you've been doing it, Trina. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And [music] so, um yeah, I'm glad that Trina uh answered her own question. >> We got there.

>> We're not going to finance a piece of land to build a home to flip it. Uh we are going to work on getting out of debt. >> De-risk your life.

More debt equals more risk. And so, this creative financing is just adding more risk to the puzzle. And so, be free.

That's your best path to an early retirement. >> Trina. Thanks for Thanks for calling.

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Matt is in Colorado Springs. What's going on, Matt?

>> Hey, uh first first thing I'm just going to say is y'all are such a blessing to so many people. >> Oh, thank you. >> I I >> [clears throat] >> I I've listened for quite some time, and I I'm just thankful for what y'all do.

Uh and and now I find myself in a situation where I could use some advice. >> Yeah, thank you, Matt.

>> Yeah, so I guess the brass tacks of the situation is I've got pretty considerable amount of IRS debt.

I own two businesses, and I've just kind

of got myself in a little bit of a hole.

Um And so, the question is

if there's any credibility to

tax relief programs and and things of that nature.

>> Well, they're often marketed to people who are desperate and vulnerable. Uh which is never a good sign.

You know, when they're That usually means they're predatory, and they're promising way over-promising and under-delivering. So, what they tell you to do is basically, "Hey, don't pay a dime. You pay us instead." And what's going to happen is tanks your credit, which with the IRS, not the people you want to not pay.

And so, they then try to settle for you and save you money.

Which, by the way, you can do all of this yourself. And with the IRS, they can already set up a payment plan.

So, there's really no use for a tax relief program in this situation.

>> Okay. >> They're just paid middle-men between you and the IRS.

>> Right. And and the other

office that I contacted was more of like a tax attorney that talks more about the the future plan for the taxes for the business to to avoid this issue in the future, which >> Yeah, that's legit. May be beneficial.

Yeah. >> Um but but then his office was saying, you know, we don't recommend these tax relief programs because they're they're over-promising, under-delivering. So, >> Perfect. I'm in line with an attorney.

That's a good day for me.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. So, uh I guess I guess the question is in your if you were in this situation, what what steps you might take? Um >> Yeah, how much do you make a year, Matt?

>> Uh it's kind of relative.

Uh probably somewhere around 100 or so.

>> Okay. And do you have anything in savings?

>> Yeah.

I typically try not to dip below 15 or 20 in savings.

Uh >> So, you have 20?

>> Yeah, about about right there right now.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Uh the the the issue with my particular business is it's extremely seasonal with construction. So, you know, I kind of hunker down in the wintertime and you know, rice and beans and the just about nothing. So, Um but then in the the the busier season, it's easier to tackle some of these things. So, >> What kind of construction?

>> Uh outdoor, you know, fence and deck and

uh >> Yeah. a lot of carpentry kind of stuff.

So >> Cool. Well, the good news is you can

still work during that time and make money and you can definitely pay this money back in a reasonable amount of time. Do you have any other debts that are holding you back from creating the margin to knock this out quick?

>> Yeah, there's still about 20,000 remaining on a HELOC.

>> Okay. >> And I already know that's a teeth grinding words ringing probably but Um Uh that Yeah, it's it's one of those situations where I'm sure I could pay that off but then you know, you have to worry about the the bills right now. So if I were to pay it off I would wait until the money's coming in more fluently and >> Okay. So you got 40 to the IRS, 20 on the HELOC, anything else?

>> Uh that's about it. I've I've paid off I don't know 20,000 something in credit cards. >> Great. And do you have no car loans?

>> Yeah, well I would this changes the debt snowball a little bit because IRS debt gets moved to the front. So even before the HELOC, I would be tackling this 40 and I would just make it an aggressive goal and again, I don't know if it's a payment plan that you contact the IRS with but I would try to have this all paid off in less than a year.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> So so I guess other pieces of the equation are I've got to file the last two years of taxes I'm behind on that.

Uh so there'll be probably another 10 to 15 after all the expenses and all that.

>> So let's call it 60.

Is that fair? >> Sure. >> So if we call it 60, you know you owe 60, set up a payment plan with them and maybe it's hey, you're going to pay a thousand a month or 2,000 a month and then once you get down to that, you know, you got 15 grand left, I would use your savings to just knock it out. And then you can replenish the savings. Really what you do is then attack the HELOC, then replenish the savings.

>> So I guess the question then become you know, I pay a a considerable amount of additional principal on my home.

Uh, or does it make more sense to factor that into this >> Yes. >> equation? >> Yeah, I would just pay my minimum >> the minimum mortgage payment. Why are you paying extra on the principal of your home right now?

>> Uh, generally just, you know, you look at the amortization schedule and all of that and it and it you know, [clears throat] over a course of time it just makes sense. But >> And it does in the right order, but you want to get this stuff cleaned up. So, if you if you went down to just your mortgage payment, how much does that free up a month?

>> Uh, probably about another thousand or so.

>> Oh, great. >> So, how much could you reasonably put towards this IRS debt every month if you got aggressive? >> Well, this is where it gets tricky cuz you know, I listen to your show constantly and people are like, "Well, I make this exact amount every month or every two weeks." And for me, I have months where it's 15, 20,000 and I have months where it's 2,000.

>> peaks and valleys. >> But you've been doing this a while, so you probably could look at a calendar and semi guess like this probably will be good months here, low months here.

So, yeah, so you maybe putting, you know, maybe, you know, 1,300, 1,400 towards this on a low month, but a good month you could be throwing 3,000 at it, right? Um, so I would kind of just map it out that way.

>> And I'm already set up on like their minimum amount, 400 something a month.

Uh, so I've been actively attacking it for a couple of years. Uh, but it seems like every dollar that goes into it's just paying off the accruing interest, you know. >> Right. >> You need to get way more aggressive on this, which means all focus is on this IRS debt.

No extra on the mortgage, your budget is bare bones. You are just covering four walls, food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, anything else is going towards this. And try to make make it to where there's no gap in income. Now, I understand you're going to have some really good months and some rough months, but I don't want you to sitting around going, "Well, there's no work to be done right now." >> Sure.

But I guess in general you you wouldn't, you know, I I mean I could run the HELOC up more and pay that and it might be less percentage that I'm paying or >> not adding a cent to the HELOC. We're not going to keep going with this line of credit. We are done with that.

>> But do you do you think it would make sense to sell off additional assets to try to do this or what?

>> Well, I've got a considerable number of vehicles and machinery that are mostly associated with the business. Uh I mean they're for all intents and purposes mine, but the business owns them.

>> Yeah, would it would it decimate the business income if you sold these off?

>> it though to to run your business?

>> Well, I it's probably like a half and half kind of number. I mean, you know, skid steers and tractors and things that that are relatively essential. Uh >> But you have one piece of machinery you're thinking of that you're like, "Okay, I could sell that and be okay." >> Doesn't get a lot of use, doesn't create a lot of revenue right now.

>> Yeah. >> What could you get for that?

>> Uh I mean, probably somewhere between 15

and 20. >> Wow. >> Thousand?

>> Yeah. >> That paired with your savings gets you out of the IRS debt like tomorrow.

>> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I kind of figured you all would be on that that boat. >> And you can always buy it used later if you need it, right? With cash.

>> Sure. >> Yeah, and that and again, that's all saying that that's not affecting your business. I don't want you to have to turn business away. >> half your income because you sold this thing. >> Right. Right. Right. So, you want to be smart about it. But if it's something that you're really not using or really need and you can get 20 grand off of it, yeah. >> I'm doing that for sure.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm a huge advocate of not having car loans and and I fix them all myself and whatnot, so that >> That's right. Yeah. >> Yeah, anything you have, Matt, I would I would cuz I think if you had no IRS debt

and no HELOC, how would you feel?

>> I don't like I could scream. >> Like amazing. Hi, I can scream I'm debt free. Exactly. Yeah, so I'm like yeah, whatever you could do to get to that level of peace and control is what we're after. And then later when the business is doing great and you have all [music] this freed up money cuz you don't have debt, you're able to save and if you need to go buy some equipment >> Cash flow some equipment. I'm changing the Dave quote. Now it's sell so much stuff the skid steer thinks it's next.

Cuz it is, my friend. Good luck selling it. Hope you get a great buyer who's happy to pay you what it's worth.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel joined by best-selling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruze. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. [music]

Up next we head to Charlotte who is in Columbia, South Carolina. Charlotte, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help today?

>> Um my question is well, my husband and I

are we have $100,000 of student loan

debt that we just started paying off and

my dad had promised that he would help pay this debt off. However, in the last year we had to cut ties with him.

So thank you. >> Charlotte, you're breaking up with us. Charlotte, can you speak directly in your phone or try to get to a better spot? I heard your 100,000 student loans. Dad said he would help pay them off and you recently had to cut him off.

>> Yes, we did. We had to cut ties with him. And so we are now >> Like the relationship is over?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Got it. >> Correct. Yes. So we are now just looking

into this debt now as for our own to pay off and my

question is what tips would you have to pay this off quickly? I don't want this to be looming over our heads for longer than it needs to.

>> We agree. >> Uh what did y'all get your degrees in?

>> It my husband got a law degree. So that

>> Oh gotcha. Okay, perfect. So is he practicing law right now?

>> Yes, he is. >> Okay. And how much is he making a a year?

>> He is making a little over 100k.

>> Okay. And what are you making a year?

>> I'm just making a little over 20k. I'm working part-time. We just had our first child back in October. >> Okay. Oh, congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> Um okay, great. So, um yeah, I mean, the the most efficient way to do this, Charlotte, is um is if you have multiple

student loans, do you? Or is it all one loan? >> It's just one loan. >> Okay. Yeah, so it's just going to be you know, taking >> Attacking the mountain, throwing as much as you can every month on top of the minimum payment, just throwing as much as you guys can. So, it's make as much as we can every month, spend as little as we can, and use that difference, that margin to knock out this debt fast.

>> you guys make 120 a year, if you lived on 60,000, Charlotte, and you guys basically had no lifestyle, you're just like, "Listen, we are just going to just live on what we got." Um

and you threw 60 at it, I mean, in a year and a half, you guys will have this paid off.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, it's just you got to live like a a broke law student and not like a lawyer.

And that might be a I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but that's going to be a big shift.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, do you guys have margin every month in your budget?

>> We definitely could. We could have more.

Um Yeah. Yeah. >> So, make it a goal. Let Could you this month, with the next paychecks coming in, throw $4,000 on top of the minimum at the debt?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You got to listen 2 years. I mean, that's the math of it. There's no like life hack shortcut. Now, if you were doing the debt snowball and you had multiple debts, we'd say attack the little one first, minimums on the rest, and create some progress. This is a little bit harder cuz it's just your It's like paying off a mortgage. You're just staring down this mountain going, "All right." I would celebrate the wins.

Every $10,000 you pay off, you guys have a little fun, whatever you decide to do.

And that'll keep you motivated along the way. Maybe make it visual. Maybe you have like, you know, rings and chains across the house and or on the fridge, whatever you guys decide to do. Making it visual, having a deep why. Maybe this child is your deep why of I want this kid to grow up in a house that doesn't know debt.

That has financial stability.

>> Yeah, and it probably is There's probably a painful element, too, right?

That it came You guys are doing this cuz of a relationship that was fractured. So, every You know what I mean? It's kind of like the sad reminder, too, um of having this around of like why we have to pay this off. So, there is a part two of like, "Oh, I just want to add >> want it to drag out. >> want it out of my life, you know?

>> Definitely. >> Is your husband on board with this?

>> Yes, he is.

We're in the very beginning stages of really talking about it, which I feel I feel behind because it's been almost a

year that we've had to cut ties with my dad, but it really does just kind of feel like the dust has now settled more with that and then with having our son,

but So, yeah, I we're just in the beginning stages of like really coming up with a plan.

>> Tell me this, Charlotte. He wasn't Your dad wasn't paying your husband's debt for law school, though. Just yours, right?

>> He was going He never paid any debt

because when all of this came out with my dad, we had just like maybe for 2 weeks and put on a

payment plan for the debt.

>> Okay. >> Cuz he had not yet >> Yeah, but was was the expectation that he was going to pay your husband's law degree?

>> He had said he would.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So, it was the whole debt.

Cuz I was going to say is if he just promised your debt and yours is 10,000 of the 100,000, you know, I was going to ask why you didn't address But he's But But it was said out loud that it would even >> So, this wasn't on your radar and all of a sudden relationship's broken and now you've got 100,000 sitting in your lap to pay off. On top of the grief. And so, this is a lot. >> Yeah, it is sad.

>> And it's going to be it's going to be tight, but you know, less than 2 years, the baby won't remember it. It'll be a memory for you guys. Remember that time we worked our tails off for 2 years to get to a place of financial stability, and you will not regret the sacrifice you're making right now. I'll tell you that much.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

highest amount of money in a CD account that >> Ooh. >> a 2-year CD account. So I don't think we can't touch it for like another year.

But >> How much is in there?

>> Um like a little over 75,000.

>> Fantastic. Well, I would also look at what the penalties are for taking it out before it matures. Cuz if you're going to pay more interest in student loans than the penalty is, then it's worth cashing out.

>> Okay. >> And that gets you out of out of debt so much faster.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> What was that money earmarked for?

>> We didn't We didn't really have any sort of plan for other than just to kind of keep it in there.

And then maybe once it was done

divvied up more, we were probably going to buy another house or like sell the house we're in now, buy a little bit bigger house as our family grew. Um

we that money actually was

given to us from the death of my grandfather. So it was kind of unexpected. So we really didn't have much of a plan, and then it was like we got that. My husband started paying the student loan debt, and then everything happened with my dad. So we got to be

I haven't thought about it that much.

>> Okay. Got you. Well, the other part you have to grieve is, hey, we this was going to be like house upgrade money, and now it's paying off debt money, which is less exciting. And so >> But I would do that in a heartbeat.

>> I would look into that tonight to see what the penalties are. >> And then depending on how aggressive you guys want to move up in house, still look at cutting back some lifestyle and and saving up some margin and say okay, if we were to replenish this, um you know, you could do that in a year and a half still and get that money back, but I would go ahead and yes, I would >> is we're out of debt in 6 months. By the summer we're debt free. >> Yes, I would do that in a heartbeat and then you guys save your income and decide how quickly you want to save, how slow, but no one else is determining that for you.

We're going to just enjoy our life and >> Yeah, and maybe you can quit the part-time job after you get the emergency fund. >> no one's making you do it. Where student loan [music] you have to make this payment. >> Yeah, life is going to be on your terms soon enough and so far life has just been happening to you and everything's been unexpected and I hope soon you can start to get intentional and and happen to your life, Charlotte. We're rooting for you. Thanks for calling.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Shane is in Vegas up next. What's going on, [music] Shane?

>> Hey y'all, thanks for having me on. It's an honor to be speaking to you today. >> Thank you. How can we help today?

>> Um Yeah, so uh favorite topic for you guys, money and family. Uh long time ago, when I was 18, took out uh student loans uh with the agreement with my father that they would pay uh until the balance is zero. Um 35

now. Balance is still in the mid 70s to uh

mid 70,000. >> gosh. >> What was it originally?

Uh it was over 120, so uh they've been paying it down. They've been making minimum payments. >> Well, that's a problem.

>> I I agree with you. Uh the issue I'm really having is that my dad is he's totally fine paying it.

He still makes the payments, but my mother constantly brings up the fact that they are paying for my student loans. Um feel like there's strings attached when at the very beginning they were never uh there was agreement but >> And there was a clear agreement, "Hey, we're we're going to pay these off. We can't We don't have the money to cover it, but take out the loan and we'll cover it." Is it in your name or their name or both? >> They're they're in my name.

Uh they have the money.

Um >> Are you married? >> Still financially I am married, yes.

>> Okay. So, when you guys are around your parents, how often is that?

How often do y'all see them? >> Uh we I mean, we we live on separate sides of the country, so once twice a year, but even in some phone calls, the topic still comes up. >> does she say? Like, what are her comments?

>> Um a lot of the times it's like revolved around like, "Oh, you just bought a truck. Like, that could have gone to the student loans." Or "Oh, you took a nice vacation. Like, why is that money?" But but but you know, going back to what I said, it's that was never part of the agreement, so I never feel uh obligated. Um but then, yeah, my father, he's like, "Yeah, I I don't care. I'm still paying them. It's whatever." So. Have you Do you push frustrated? >> Yeah. Do you push back on her at all?

>> I do. I try to keep it, you know, calm and and light, but uh my wife is really the one that gets frustrated by it cuz she feels like >> you were married cuz I feel like I would be like "Oh my gosh." See, this is the issue with the student loan stuff is these parents are like, "Sure. Go take out whatever you want to go take out." And you're 18, Shane, right? And "Sure,

you sign it." I mean, yeah, you're 18, you're an adult, so yes, you have some responsibility in the sense of like, you chose to make that decision, but you also had fully functioning adults in your life that said, "Yes, we and we would pay for this." So, I almost would have a very kind but a very clear conversation with her um around the boundaries of these comments because it starts to erode the relationship. >> I'm guessing it already has.

Yeah. Doesn't sound like >> Definitely the holidays are fun. >> I mean, that's why you're calling, right? This is your This is >> Yeah, a lot of tension. >> Yes, okay. >> Okay. >> Um so, yeah, I mean, I would I would tell her. And I and I would be very kind, but I would be very very clear.

And and just and to be honest with her and say, "You know, Mom, there have been multiple comments made." I mean, you could give her some examples.

And the truth is, when I was 18, you all told me that you would take them out and you would pay for this.

And I'm I'm holding y'all to that word.

I mean, that that's what was said. If something has changed and you and Dad agree on a different plan, you're I'm happy to have a discussion with you if that's the case. But, that's not been the discussion. And so, I need you to stop stop making these comments. They're passive-aggressive and and it's eroding our relationship. Can you do that, Mom?

And at that point, that's up to her. She's the adult that gets to make the decision if she wants to continue a healthy relationship. >> don't control y'all's money. That's your decision." So, this [clears throat] is now a marital problem they have of Mom disagrees with how Dad is handling a debt they agreed to pay.

>> That's a good point, too. Yeah. >> So, legally, yes, it's yours. They could stop paying today and it's going to come to you.

>> Mhm. >> Now, they haven't done that yet and I I'm glad that they're not intentionally trying to tank your life, but this might be another conversation with Dad of saying, "Hey, listen, you have the money. I don't care how much you could make in the freaking stock market. This is eroding our relationship, which is way more important than some spread you could make." And so, you can try to also influence him to, you know, sort of This would solve everything, wouldn't it?

If Dad just wrote the check, paid them off, and went, "Dude, it's been 17 years." >> I don't know. Would your mom be mad at that? >> Yeah. Uh who knows?

>> I'm sorry, can you say that again? >> She doesn't want any of their money to be used to pay for any more of your student loans. She's just done with this whole thing.

>> I It's hard to say. Um I know they're financially well off.

Like, they're My mom is retired. My dad, he makes fairly decent living and I know what their nest egg is and and uh liquid and retirement. So, I know like >> This is not a big part of their world.

>> It's not a big part of our of their world and uh you know, my wife and I, we make decent money. Uh so, like the payment could It would be totally fine for us to take on. It's just like >> Yeah. >> I need to know if I need to start paying my 80,000 student loans. >> Do you guys have the money to write a check and pay this off today?

>> Um not in like liquid assets. I mean, uh I could save a couple more months and it would be fine. But then it would just wipe out all of our liquid investments. So not my wife doesn't want to do that one.

So it would probably just be >> What I'm hearing is either way someone's going to be angry. And so that's the thing we have to make peace with is who do we want to upset? And the truth is you can't control how they react or respond.

>> That's fair.

>> So I don't I would just say if you wanted to this is the other option is you write a check and say mom I don't want this to come between us and destroy our relationship. Here's the freaking check to pay off the loans.

>> Yeah. >> That's the other option. >> I don't want to do this because of our relationship. Also because yeah because they've been they freaking have had this for almost 20 years. >> Yes. The immaturity is on mom's side at this point and dad's for >> And I'm sure they are exhausted but yes it's that. >> two decades man. >> When your when your 18 year old wants to go and take out $120,000 you say no. But no they didn't. They said yes we will we

will do this and take this on. And so they're the ones that have been dragging their feet. It's not his it's not your fault Shay. I mean you know what I mean to that degree because there was a deal.

There was a deal that was made.

Um yeah. So I'm sorry. That's so frustrating. But I would I I mean for the for your your wife's sake for your sake to like be in her presence and have passive aggressive comments constantly. Um >> Yeah. >> I would yeah I would be clear and and draw a boundary there. But again kind but clear.

>> And there might be an in between Yeah there might be a compromise where you go hey listen here's how much I'm willing to chip in to just >> Man you're really >> Here's the thing. >> the parents out but they're fine. If they were on food stamps like I >> No they have the ability to. And so that's where I go this is really between mom and dad because they have a disagreement. Mom should be mad at dad not the son.

Cuz dad's been dragging his feet for 17 years can I remind you?

>> No they both have.

>> Goodness gracious. >> That's fair. >> clearly mom doesn't have a vote when it comes to finances. >> feel like we're getting more and more of these. I don't know why. I feel like that we hear more and more parent >> resentment, guilt calls >> children with the student loan debacle in the mix of someone said they were going to pay, they're not paying, or they're paying and they're mad. This >> Or they're asking me for money again.

How do I cut them off? >> deal. Yeah, I mean it's just it's so much. Um so yeah. >> So can we talk about our parameters around family and money? I think it's a good reminder for everyone listening here, which is this: Never loan money to

family or friends. If you want to give money, make it a gift. And please don't go into debt for said gift. That's not really a gift.

We've heard that where they're like, "Well, mom got me a car. It has a loan on it. And so I, you know, I got to pay it, but she got me the car." >> Yes. >> And so it's fine if you want to give money.

>> the giving ends up becoming a pattern of enabling bad behavior, irresponsibility, that's another stop, right? We're not doing that. Um but they the gifts cuz I mean part of the show is about changing your family tree, right? Getting yourself in a position where you can change your life, you change your family's life, you change others' lives.

Like the ripple effect is beautiful and wonderful and we want that to be, but we also want the people on the other side that are receiving it to be in a healthy good spot themselves, to have their own dignity um as adults.

>> Ever. >> Please. Please. No co-sign.

We had a grandma who co-signed. That was last week on the show, I think. I know. She was like 92 and this guy's like, "Yeah, my grandma will co-sign." I was like, "Your poor grandmother." You're He's broke.

He's probably not going to be able to make the payment >> a co-signer cuz nobody trusts you to pay it off. >> Yes. >> And so what happens is you end up not paying it off and they go after poor grandma >> Yeah. >> who thought you were going to make the payments perfectly.

And she was just more of a, you know, more of a just like a nice thing. I'll sign it, but I won't ever have to deal with it. >> Right. Right.

>> Never think that. It will destroy a relationship and cause resentment. And so it's so much easier to just either put the boundary up and say no or give a one-time gift if it's going to be a blessing and you're not enabling terrible money decisions. >> You think just once for the rest of their life?

>> Well, not like an ongoing hey, I'm going to give you a thousand bucks every month forever. >> The pattern. Yes. [music] >> You know what I mean?

If you reward bad behavior, that's when it turns into entitlement. >> Agreed.

Why would I go work harder?

That's silly. This is the Ramsey show. >> [music]

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>> Matthew is in Denver up next. Matthew, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are you all doing this afternoon? >> We're doing great. How can Rachel and I help? >> Um so, I just uh I was going to get some advice. Um I was My wife and I are looking uh taking a $100,000 loan from my father

uh to buy an eight-unit rental property.

Um and I just kind of wanted to see what you guys thought um based on the details of the property and everything else.

>> Uh yeah, let's hear it cuz not not uh

super excited about this.

So, now to taking out a loan but from your father-in-law but um yeah, give me your your numbers. What are you thinking? >> Okay, so uh I got a $900,000 property um

with a 3% interest owner finance.

Um and so, it's going to be $100,000 of

my money, a $100,000 loan from my dad.

And then um the owner is willing to do $100,000 of in-kind money is what she

calls it. Um and that uh includes

repairs and improvements on the property uh for a period of 10 years.

Um and then she's also willing to mentor my wife and I uh for 2 years uh the

first 2 years that we own the home. And then at the end of the 10 years, it's going to be a a balloon payment. And I know this kind of goes against a lot of uh the Dave Ramsey uh uh I guess principles, but I wanted to see what you guys thought cuz I I think it might be a good opportunity for us to kind of get a business and and start moving that way. >> Do you guys own a home currently, a primary home?

>> Uh yes, we do own a home currently and we have uh no debts or payments at all besides that house. >> Oh, besides the house. What's left on that mortgage?

>> Uh, 190,000.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh, we make around 135,000 uh and there's a lot of room for growth there. >> Cool. How did this idea come up of the eight unit and then your dad loaning you the money? Who brought it up? >> Um So, we met this woman um

at a graduation um and we we had owned a a single family home investment property and we got to talking to her and she and I kind of told her that we're we're real estate investors and she's like, "Oh, well, I got a deal for you.

>> Sounds like it. Um so, she knows your dad and was like, "Well, if he ponies up a hundred, you pony up a hundred, we can make this work." >> Um she's >> mentor you for two years from Arizona.

>> Yeah, she's kind of Kirk Tiller related to my wife uh not by blood or anything,

but uh >> Matthew, I just see 85 ways this could go sideways.

It's not It's not worth it. It's not. I mean, from the way the loan's structured with the balloon happening in 10 years um all this borrowing from family

uh going into a $900,000 investment property um that you don't have the money for.

You got I mean, do you How much do y'all have saved? How much cash do do you and your wife have?

>> Um so, I have $100,000 for the down and

then we have about $250,000 in the markets right now. >> Okay, why don't you Why do you have to borrow money from your dad? Take your money out if you're going to do the deal. I wouldn't do the deal, but don't don't borrow money from your dad. You have $350,000.

>> Okay, got it. And I get I don't know. I guess my thought is if I could keep it in the markets and make 10% whereas I could pay my dad back uh 10% on the money that he loaned the company.

>> I mean, you're needing the stars to align with this. You need eight tenants who pay on time with no risk there. You need to pay back You need to make money in the markets. There are so many variables here that could go wrong.

>> If all of this just tanks, you're screwed. Right? If the market tanks, you're screwed. >> Yeah.

>> You can't find renters, you're screwed. If the market goes down As as Dave always says, if if Trump burps and the market you know goes down >> happened. He was like, "We're going to invade Greenland." The stock market got spooked. And so you just don't know.

>> What I mean, yeah. >> But here here's the parameters that are underlying. >> to you. >> Yeah, the underlying principles are we never recommend you buy investment property until your primary home is paid off.

Always recommend paying cash. And number three, we always tell people never borrow money from family.

And so there's a lot of principles here that are being violated all for the sake of a quote-unquote good opportunity.

>> I I'm going to say this Matthew and I don't want it to be rude but you guys had one single residential investment property, correct? You and your wife. >> That is correct. >> And you tell this lady that you're you're you're real estate investors.

Um which I guess technically you are.

You have one investment property. And I think she saw ding ding ding, here's my ticket out. I got to get out of this horrible situation I'm in cuz my husband's sick. And again, I don't think it's like ill will on her end.

I just think she thought, "Oh my gosh, here's a guy who's probably doing all these like deals that you see on TikTok and he's a got eight VRBOs and here You know what I mean? And he'll do it. I bet I bet I bet I could offer him this and we'll we'll structure the loan where it works for him so I can get out of here. That's what she saw.

I mean, honestly, she didn't list it.

to some, you know, um investment firm that has, you know, 18 different investors around the country that go and buy property. You know what I mean? Like no, no, no. She found you and your wife and you thought you hit the hit a great deal and you hit a horrible deal. Not good. Not good.

>> Okay. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I really do. >> Not what you wanted to hear, I know, but [snorts] >> Matthew. So, listen, what you and your wife did though with I would pay off your house but I I'm all about I think I think having investment properties is amazing. My husband and I do. My fam I mean, I think it's I think it is great.

You just have to start slow. Like the first one Winston and I got, this was gosh, probably 10 years ago. It was a short sale condo in this like kind of like sketchy part of Nashville, but it's what we did it but we got a deal. We saved up. You know, we we bought it for really not a lot. Had to go do a a lot of work in it.

We sold it probably gosh, seven years later

when Nashville was on And it was amazing. I was like, this is great, right? Like you have to start slow.

Start small. Don't start with a million dollar eight unit property cuz you're about to take on all those people. Like that's going to be a huge headache. Like get some things under your belt. Start small and then start to work your way up, which is not as flashy, not as exciting, but it is it is peace. That is

a peaceful way to do this and not create chaos cuz you guys are setting yourself up for chaos and maybe to ruin a relationship with your dad if this goes bad, too. >> I've rarely seen it where they go, "Yeah, borrowed money from dad. It worked out perfectly. Paid him back and he was happy. I was happy." Uh usually it becomes, "Well, dad wants a piece of the pie now. He wants his money back cuz he needs to retire.

>> That's it. >> Which means I need to sell the property. Oh, and he wants appreciation. And so he wants that too on top of his 100,000, on top of interest, and it just always ruins >> Yeah, or he gets sick and he needs 100 grand back, you know, and I don't know.

There's just a There's a lot a lot of things. >> So I would I would hold off and just go slow and >> And it's not exciting. It's not exciting, but it's worth it. >> What is the 250 invested for? What is that earmarked for?

>> Um what What do you What exactly do you mean by like what am I saving that for?

>> Yeah, you said you had 250,000 in the markets. I'm guessing that's not a retirement, just in a brokerage account?

>> Uh yes, it's a mix of IRAs and then just

the uh personal brokerage account and that's just uh saving for retirement is kind of uh what I've been doing and kind of learning to trade it on my own and with the help from a financial investor and stuff, so. >> Okay. >> That's kind of >> to say, if you have liquid money that is really earmarked for nothing and you want to take it and throw it at the house, the non-retirement portion, you could do that and speed up the process.

Free up a mortgage payment and then you can stack cash fast.

>> savers. So then yeah, stack up some cash and get 300 grand here, you know, like save that over the next 5 years or whatever your income is, and then go buy a rental property with cash. And that's it. You know what I mean? Like you can You can do this slow walking it, but do it in the right order. Pay off the house. If you have the money, I would pay off your primary home. And Yeah.

>> is just is >> is reducing risk and right now we're just adding more [music] and more and more risk and your first real investment property to be a $900,000 eight-unit just feels like we're biting off a lot here. >> I mean, for the purposes of helping this woman >> move >> Right. >> with her ailing husband. >> Yeah, I mean, eight different families, eight different situations. I mean, that's a part-time job right there of what you just [music] signed up for as a landlord. So there's not passive income.

It's a lot of work, a lot of work.

>> [music]

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Miriam, how can we help?

>> Hi, it's a pleasure to speak with both of you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Uh my question is about life insurance.

Um we pushed off getting life life insurance way too long, and I thought it would be pretty straightforward. Um the Well, I wanted to call Vanguard Insurance, and I wanted to meet two people who kept bugging him that they wanted to sell me life insurance. So, I said, "Okay, we need a 20-year term." And I I think we got a little screwed by them cuz we ended up getting a policy which they said was 20-year, but it's extendable 20-year.

>> Oh. So, after the 20 years, you can re-up at the current premiums for your age, which is going to be two to five times higher, probably.

>> when we got the package, which was after, you know, we have 30 days to cancel or whatever, but it's past the 30 days either way. Either way, I'm going to replace it, but it goes up even before the 20 years, I think. Like, there's a whole chart. It's hard to understand. I >> Yeah. >> I'm not really sure. >> Who'd you get it through? What company?

>> I've Northwestern. >> Oh, boy. Okay. You've said [laughter] enough, Miriam. I would cancel yesterday. It's not a scam and they're they're a company who does all kinds of financial products, but likely what happens, here's what I've seen. It's mostly young guys right out of college who want some sales experience and they sell the scummyest life insurance products to unsuspecting victims like their family and friends.

>> Right. Yeah, well, that's accurate. >> So, I'm not dogging the whole company.

But that's that's my brother and same thing happened to my own brother, right? Some guy from college reaches out, "Hey, man, how you doing?" And so, I would get out of this and I would contact our friends at Zander cuz they're not going to sell you extendable term life insurance. Term life insurance by definition is >> Okay. >> I So, I just wanted to know like based on the should I take 20 year, should I take 30 year?

They said that Dave recommends a child rider, which I never heard on the show, so >> They Hold on. Hold on.

>> No, no, no, no. Zander. Zander.

>> For what reason?

>> Oh, I don't know. I have four kids. They That's That's why. I I never heard it from him. That's why I called cuz I I wanted to understand. And then somebody else I'm getting very overwhelmed that somebody else told me that we should really do a disability rider. I don't >> No, there's there's a lot of riders.

When you hear the word rider, just think gimmick. And so, all you need is term life insurance. 20 year should be enough and here's how to think about it. In 20 years time, you should be self-insured if you follow the Ramsey plan. You become debt free, stay debt free, you have the emergency fund, you invest in retirement for 20 years, you pay the house off in 15 years if you follow our parameters of a 15 year mortgage, and all of a sudden, you don't need the life insurance anymore once the term expires.

So that's the goal. And if it needs if you need 25 years to get there, then you get 25.

>> Well, and that's that's what I'm asking.

How do I we're in baby step three B. We live in New York, so that's taking a while. Um I have four kids, one on the way and I'm not done. My husband and I are both from very large families, so I'm thinking my kids are not going to be out of the house in 20 years.

Should I go longer? Should I look for something in between?

To add? >> Yeah, I mean you could see how much it is because are you guys in good health, would you say? >> Yes. Yeah, yeah.

>> Cuz that's the great thing about term life is it is so inexpensive. And then when it comes up for time for renewal, you can always, you know, go back through and recheck things and make different decisions, right? >> get additional policies, you know, in a few years. Now it's going to be more expensive as you age.

them, get the math on it, and always stick to term no matter what. Just term.

And if it's 15, 20, 25, that's fine. And always get 10 to 12 times your annual income or your husband's annual income.

And both of you should have your own individual policies. >> Yeah. And and you're you're saying not 30, 25 should I shouldn't go more than that?

>> 30 feels aggressive. If the kids are still in the house at that point, then that's on them and you guys will be multi-millionaires by then. >> to say cuz I mean in yes. >> You'll be set for sure.

>> In 25 years, yes, Miriam. If you guys are investing 15% of your income, if you guys are working to pay everything off, I'm like it's just that continues to build. That's where you build wealth. And in 25 years, what that's going to end up being is a lot of money.

And so for the kids that are in the home, maybe it's one or two of them. They're going to have plenty of money.

Um you know, and not needing your financial support. >> a village at that point to take care of each other. So I'm less worried 25 years from now about what life looks like if you follow the plan.

>> Exactly. Okay, I I can ask one more quick question? >> Sure. >> About what when your income goes up, you're supposed to have 10 to 12 times your income. So, then do you buy another plan in in term with for the difference?

>> You can >> You can get a small policy for the difference. I wouldn't cancel the one you currently have and get a new one. So, you can always add a small >> would you look at that? Like in a year if it goes up you get another policy >> It's a parameter.

So, if you get a $5,000 raise, you don't need to go out and get an extra policy. >> Right. >> But, if you get a substantial raise and your lifestyle's change and your expenses have changed dramatically, that's when you go, all right, we need to re-look at this. >> Yeah, it's about every four to five years I would re-look.

I mean, for me. >> Exactly. >> Um so, yeah, but I'd say yeah, every every four to five years. I'm trying to think when we started cuz we just re-upped our life insurance.

Maybe like two years ago or something.

Um cuz we still get it.

>> Oh, yeah. >> I like having it, you know, even if we're debt-free and everything. There's a part of me that I'm like eh, we're young and healthy and it's cheap. And that's the great thing about term.

>> what it costs, I mean, it's a great policy to have, especially if you're term. >> ago. >> Yeah. Yeah, so um yeah, so anything fancy around it, any words you don't understand, Miriam usually is like a that's a red flag to me.

They're adding things on. Uh if it's a young guy that's in the situation and they're and it's all these weird terms again that they're selling you this package, probably not a great deal. Like the simpler the better. Just a 20-year 25-year >> always want prey on your emotions and the what ifs and well, a good parent would do this.

You really want to take care of your kids. >> don't need life insurance. Only you, you know, I mean, all of it. So, >> It's meant to do one thing, which is replace income.

>> Yeah. >> Your 2-year-old is not bringing, you know, money into the house here unless she's like a Gerber baby making bank.

So, uh you're asking really good questions, Miriam, and I love that you're taking care of your family in this way. Most people are going, what the heck are they talking about? I don't have any insurance. And so for everyone out there listening, you need term life insurance if anybody depends on you, a spouse or children. And it's very affordable and you can call our friends at Zander and get this done today. 800-356-4282

or go to Zander.com. They'll take care of you. Rachel and I both have our policies through Zander for our families and it's well worth the money. >> And Zander's great cuz they go and shop >> They're brokers. >> Yeah, all different companies versus again, like a Northwestern, right? To pick on them a little bit, but it's like okay, it's just one or Aflac. It's just one Do you know what I mean? I guess their car. I don't know if they do life. >> They probably do it all these days.

>> But yeah, it's not just the one company that you're getting the price from. What Zander does, they shop all the companies to get you the best price of what you're looking for. >> a lot of these now have no medical exams. Like if you're under, I don't know, a million dollar policy, you don't have to go get the medical exam or you know, so that's that's always nice.

Not have to get >> convenience.

Uh and >> Uh and it's a good idea to get healthy before you shop for life insurance. Cut the bad habits. >> thinking about your diet the night before your blood gets drawn. >> Yes. It's like cramming for a test. You're like, well, if I don't eat bad today >> drink a lot of water. Be as >> You're [laughter] like Googling, how fast will my blood work be good if I cut

sweets? >> Yeah. >> That's a good reminder. >> Yeah, and I think those are some of the saddest calls, George, of um you know,

um we'll get, you know, widower widower or a widow calling that their spouse passed away and they have kids and they're trying to pick up the pieces. So, you know, whether they're trying to find a new job or starting to work cuz they were a stay-at-home parent or trying to figure out child care for the kids so they can go to work. I mean, it's just it and and if there is no life insurance, >> Yeah. >> then they are they have nothing, you know, they're just stuck with what it is.

And so it is >> part is a lot of people think they're covered cuz they're like, well, uh he has one through work. And I go, well, how much is that policy?

I was like, well, great. We can get by for maybe 6 to 12 months.

>> Yeah. >> But what about after that? And so the goal here is if you make $50,000 and you get a $500,000 policy, you could invest

that money and it would be able to spit off $50,000 with the average return in the market. And so that's the goal of getting 10 to 12 times your income is because the stock market historically has done about 10 to 12%. And so that's the reason for life insurance. That's the mechanics of it and it doesn't take long.

I know it feels like well, I'm going to die sooner if I get life insurance. No, you're going to die regardless. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 50 years, but either way you need to sleep better knowing that your family's protected.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel joined by Ramsey personality Rachel Cruze. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Katie is in South Carolina up next.

Katie, what's going on?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Um I hope you all are well.

>> We are.

What's going on with you today? How can we help? >> So, I mean, I I might sound crazy for saying this, but I just can't shake the feeling that we're charging a little bit too much money. And I guess I'm looking

for a way to justify my count. Or, you

know, try and figure out how to process, you know, how fast do we want to grow and how should we scale our company.

>> Okay, so we is this your husband?

>> Yeah, my husband started this business before we got married and I kind of joined him after that. We've been in business for about 11 years.

>> Cool. What kind of business is it?

>> It's a a trucking company. So, we we do some hauling. >> Wow, that business has really taken off, hasn't it? >> Yeah, yeah. We're really blessed.

>> Uh, so last year we brought in 290,000

sales and then after, you know, paying everyone and expenses, we profited about 120,000.

>> And that's as a household. So, that's your household income for the year? >> So, that's not the household income.

Most of that stayed in the business. Um,

you that that was just what the business profited. We paid ourselves about 50,000. >> Oh, wow. And that's together. That's total that came to you guys. Wow. All right.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. >> So, where did this price hike come into play and why?

>> Yeah, so we our pricing is very simple.

We've just matched what the competition is around us. We don't have a lot of competitors. Um, and you know, we're one

of the few people that do our specific type of hauling in our area. Um, so we

really have just always kind of matched what market price is. But I'm kind of looking at case-by-case, job-by-job and

realizing that the range of profit we have on each job is is super wide. So, sometimes it's you know, a small amount of profit, but a lot of the time it's quite large. Um, so I'm just kind of,

you know, when I brought up the idea of restructuring how we do our pricing and, you know, taking it from super simple to trying to be a little bit more specific so we can afford to help some people that usually say, "Oh, no, you're too expensive." Well, you know, if you're willing to make 40% profit on that job instead of 60, maybe that person would have said, "Yes." Um, >> Do you feel like you need more business?

Do you feel like you need more business? >> Well, so our work is very seasonal. The demand in season is so high, we can't keep up with it. But then during the off-season, it's not really a thing. Um,

so we, you know, we obviously slow down a lot and that's we're blessed that, you know, able to work very full-time

overtime 6 months out of the year is enough for us to live off of and then the rest of the time we can work on side gigs or spending more time with family, which is great. Um, so yes and no. We definitely don't need more work. We can't handle it in the summer, but the idea is obviously to grow so we can do even more during the summer, if that makes sense. >> Got it. So, is there a moral profit

margin in your mind that is like anything above this >> [laughter] >> is immoral to charge?

>> Well, I don't have a specific number.

It's more the concept of, you know, is it is that even a valid question?

>> Well, I mean, look, if you look at prices, is his reasoning, "Hey, everything's gone up. Everything costs us more. Fuel, insurance, maintenance, tires, labor, permits." Like that's all gone up. And so, it's not like he's tripling the cost just for fun.

And you guys are bringing home 50 grand as a household. >> a specific type of service that you said there's not a lot of competition and so you guys are in high demand. >> Yeah, I mean, >> And not a lot of supply, which means you can charge more and it's not like you're hurting anybody. They're happily paying you for this service that they can't do themselves.

>> Yes, the more I say that loud the know the more I know I'm kind of making my husband sound like a superstar in business, but you know, I just always back to I always go back to the few cases where people have asked us for help and you know, we give them our price and they're like oh, you know, that's way over budget and in my head I'm saying I really know I could have helped this person out. I could have met their needs. >> Sure.

>> Yeah, I hear you. So I wonder if because

you know, even here at Ramsey for instance, like we give stuff away a lot.

Whether it's tickets to a live event, books, you know, and some stuff it's like very nice coaching, you know, one-on-one coaching that will pay for people's sessions. Like >> Yeah. >> we will have life with an open hands business-wise, but we're only able to do that because we are making a profit on the other end that is feeding a thousand people. Well, that work here and their families and all of it, right?

So So there there is room to be if there is room to be generous, I would talk to your husband about that and say hey, you know, and I hate to this sounds so like legalistic and I don't mean to be this like for formulaic about it, but I don't know, Katie.

You know, are there four times that you can say and you guys agree on that like hey, I just feel something in my spirit that I'm supposed that I'm supposed to extend some grace to them and help them.

>> Yeah. >> Um and so that way you're at least in the practice of doing that when you feel led, but it's not changing the whole structure of the company cuz I don't feel like you guys are doing something wrong or immoral to George's point and >> Okay. >> you're you know, you got you guys are bringing home 50k a year out of this thing. >> from being greedy here.

>> yeah. It's not like you're making you know, 5 million and you're like oh my gosh, I feel like we're overcharging everyone." >> Most of your customers are making more than you. And so, that's the other thing to think about here is you guys also need to put food on the table and you have financial goals and there's nothing wrong or immoral about making money. Have you screwed anyone over?

Have you lied? Have you cheated? >> Right.

>> And so, it's okay to say, "This is what our service is worth and we're going to charge it." And if you can't afford it, that's not a slight on them. It's just saying, "Hey, there's You need to go somewhere else that you can afford." >> Mhm. >> And so, I can't I can't get everything that I want. There's things that I can't afford and I don't expect that business to go, "Well, can you just bring the budget down for me?" This is not a charity.

If you want to start a charity, go for it. You can open a non-profit and do all kinds of charitable giving through that.

>> your idea of saying, "Hey, there's going to be a customer that comes our way that I just my heart grieves for them and I want to help them." And that's totally great to say, "We want to be generous to this many customers a year or when it comes up, we're going to give some people a break." But I don't think you also need to go, "Well, whatever your budget is, we'll try to meet that." Cuz that's how you will go out of business.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, I mean, any industry, Katie, there's going to be people that can't afford. You know what I mean? I'm like, I just think about I don't know. That's why I thought social media.

I'm like, people that, you know, need help with social media. There's people that do that as a job that that charge insane money cuz they're really good at it or people that are starting out and don't charge much and I you know, you couldn't afford, you know, the high end. That's okay. It's a service they provide and just cuz they charge a lot you know, doesn't make them a bad person.

It means they're probably really good at their job or they found this niche area of life, which is what you guys have done. So, >> Yeah. Yeah.

whole business model, but if there's moments to say, "Hey, I I want to be generous in this instance." You and your husband get on the same page with that and maybe that'll kind of help free up your spirit some in that generosity.

>> Yeah. Think about it this way. If you guys charge more and you make more, that gives you the freedom to be more generous when the time comes without it being a loss for you. And so I I think there's nothing wrong with that.

And listen, if you charge too much, you'll go out of business eventually. And so you'll know when the price is right, when you have the right amount of supply and demand happening. And so I'm I don't think anyone's right or wrong here. I think we need to meet in the middle and understand you want to be generous and he needs to pay the bills.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

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>> CJ's in Phoenix [music] up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, CJ. How can we help?

>> Yes, how y'all doing? I thank y'all for hosting me. I wanted to get your input in ways to get out of my

debt with the credit cards, student loans, and a car loan.

And my house payment, I think when I first got the house, I was making a certain amount of money and I thought it was a good idea to get this two-story house, but per paycheck it's been the house payments, what I pay to escrow, and it's a whole whole check and the

other check >> Half my income, yes, sir. >> Your take-home pay, okay. >> My take-home. >> What do you make?

>> I make before taxes about 103,000.

>> Okay. Are you single?

>> I'm married. >> Married, okay. Is your spouse working outside of the home or at home?

>> Uh, she we just she just had a baby,

so she's not working currently.

>> Congrats, that's exciting.

>> Thank you. >> Okay, what's your total debt?

>> My total debt with the house payments, I

want to say it's >> Not including the mortgage, just give us the consumer debt. You said car loan, credit cards, >> student loans. >> About 110, 000. >> Woah. How much is the car loan?

>> The car loan is only 5,000. The the bigger one is the credit cards and the student loans.

>> What do those break out to be? How much are the student loans? >> The student loan is about 40,000 on the

government one and 5,000 on Texas loan.

I don't know I think that's the private one. >> Okay. >> And the credit card comes out to be

altogether about 60,000.

>> 60,000? How many credit cards do you have? >> It's um five. In between five it's the 60,000.

>> Okay.

Well, what did the 60K get spent on on the credit cards and like over what period of time was this?

>> It's been over the last I want to say it's about a year and a half where

um once I I the um the clinical coordinator position, um not that the pay I I came home as a full-time uh nurse and to get this position and I was doing a travel assignment, so I was getting paid more.

Um So, that's how I thought in my mind that I was just going to stay uh together and

for a good amount of time traveling, but then we had our first kid and I was you

know out of home and >> went down, but your spending stayed high. The lifestyle creep never went away and so you were just spending on the cards. >> So, the house payment uh was taking, you know, the one payment and to, you know, as a main other stuff.

>> Speak directly in your phone, CJ. We're having a hard time hearing you.

>> Oh, sorry. >> Okay. >> The uh So, uh once the house pay once I came full-time and the house payment was half of what, you know, half of one one pay

one check per month, um that's when I was, you know, I'll put it on the card and hopefully I'll, you know, be able to pay it and it would just >> Are you putting the mortgage on the card?

>> Not not the mortgage, it was just uh everything else was on the card.

>> Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Oh, because you spent one full paycheck on the mortgage and then anything else lifestyle just went on the card.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Are you and your wife ready to have a very different life?

>> Yes, sir. We we talked about it and we always listen to the show and we always just talk about we need to do better and the with the credit cards uh most of them are through through Chase Bank and I did call to tell them that I

can't pay anymore, so they put me on on on the plan. But even with that is about just Chase alone is about 1,200 that I'm paying. Um

>> Okay, with with everything, CJ, with with with your paid twice a month with the mortgage, the credit card bills, your regular utilities, I mean everything.

I'm assuming you're coming up short every month. If you stayed current with all of your debt. >> I do come short. I did pick up this year I did pick up a home health job which usually it's about four or five hundred dollars more per month. And that gives

me the ability like that 500 to pay >> need. To stay to keep your head above water. But but that's it though. There's nothing extra to be throwing at this debt to get out of it. It's just that's just to pay the minimum payments. >> Yes, ma'am. That that's it just month to month and you know what it's >> Yeah. How many hours are you doing that extra job?

>> Uh that's per patient.

>> Okay. >> Um right now it's I have about three four patients. Sometimes I'll tell them my days off and they'll try to give me you know PRN uh jobs to just go see a

patient but if they don't come often it's just >> It's not reliable. >> Yeah, so I mean that's a good thing to have cuz I feel like it pays well but I would have another side hustle because yeah CJ it's something it's it's got to shift from the income perspective. I think you guys need to cut your lifestyle if you haven't already.

>> Yeah, no eating out, not no investing, no saving. All we're doing is trying to pay down the smallest debt. So take that smallest credit card that you have and we're going to knock that out or if it's the car loan that's the smallest debt or the student loan we're knocking that balance out first and make minimums on the rest. So we're going to try to stay current on all the bills and throw extra at the smallest debt we have.

That's called the debt snowball method.

>> So either be that $5,000 private student loan or your $5,000 car or if there's a if there's a credit card smaller than 5,000. You're going to attack that first. >> Okay. >> Is there anything you could sell to come up with some cash to speed this up?

>> Everything else we I've looked and it would just be just minimal stuff shoes but you know it's minimal.

>> the car worth? You said you owe five on it. What is it worth?

>> It's worth about 3,000. It's a Jeep, but

the miles it's I have I think right now

it's about 155,000 miles on it.

>> Um how long ago did your wife have the baby?

>> Uh a couple months ago.

>> Okay. You know, I would have a goal for you guys cuz again, $500 a month shifts.

You know, you guys it it it's so helpful. So, I'm thinking for her what could she do from home to make 500 bucks a month? And that could include selling stuff. She could make a part-time job of selling your shoes, CJ. Making some money. You know,

but for real, like what what what can she do? And she doesn't have to start today, but maybe you guys look up and say, "Okay, you're going to start working CJ extra.

You're cutting lifestyle.

And then we're going to look up and I don't know, I'm making this up, June, she's going to start doing something through the year bringing home an extra five to a thousand 500 to a thousand dollars. Like I think as much income as you guys can get in rolling in, which is going to be exhausting. It's going to be so hard.

It's so frustrating. But that's going to make you guys get out of debt that much faster because it's not fun, right, during this process of sacrifice, but

you guys either have to do it really intensely and just go all in

or you kind of just dabble around the edges and you guys will keep it around for another four to five years.

>> Cuz here's the truth. If we can if we continue at this pace and you can only throw 100 or 200 bucks at this debt, you're going to be in debt for the rest of your life. And so that's why we're saying six-figure debt, you need a massive six-figure income to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time. Two, three, four years.

That's the goal here of intense sacrifice, not 20 years of just trying to make our way through and make the minimum payments while the interest racks up. So, that's why we want you to have a sense of urgency to get this income up. And you've got a lot of skills that are very valuable. And so if you can go make 150 grand, 200 grand, and she makes another 50 grand, even if the kids are in daycare for a season, they will survive.

>> Okay. So getting our income up.

>> That's the key. Getting expenses down as much as we can, but even then, your income has to go up in order to knock this out quickly.

>> Yes, sir. >> So hang on the line, CJ. I'm going to send you a copy of my book Breaking Free from Broke along with every dollar.

That's our budgeting tool. And you and your wife tonight, you're going to lay out, here's our next paychecks, here's all of our expenses, here's our plan to make the most of every dollar. >> Yeah, and um we always caution against

moving. I mean, honestly, cuz it's such a big expense. It's It's like one of the biggest things to uproot your family out of a home. But I would consider it's half of your income. And unless your main job you're

going to see significant raises in the next 1 2 3 years.

Um if there's not, and it's looking pretty plateau I mean, golly, that's an extra $2,000 if you get it under that to that 24 that 25%. >> [music] >> That's an extra two grand a month that you're, you know, that you could save um if you guys change your housing situation, which I know is that's a big ask. >> But it changes the whole timeline. And you guys can become homeowners again once we're not broke.

But right now, that 50% mortgage is it's eating your lunch and hurting your ability to pay down the debt.

We're going to get you those resources.

We're wishing you guys the best with this debt payoff.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show, whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Whyrify. You don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. Whyrify helps borrowers take back control with affordable refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at whyrify.com/ramsey.

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Not available in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Lucy in Oregon. She said, "I'm concerned about being a target of deed fraud if we pay

off our mortgage. If we keep our current mortgage, the bank would have to notify us if someone tried to take out a second mortgage to steal our equity. We're both in our 70s. I am retired and my husband plans to retire soon. The balance on the mortgage is $48,000 and we have the funds to take out of our 401k to pay it off. What should we do?"

>> Wow.

Okay. Well, I mean, deed fraud, it does exist, but I'm not going to be so paranoid that I keep my mortgage to do it. >> Because you can always, you know, if God forbid that happened, it's not super common. Uh more when you're like, you know, buying homes and you should have the deeds, you know, good and I don't know, there's some things you can do, but >> We got owner title insurance, which protects you against that.

So, if you're worried about it, I would look into one of those policies. >> Yeah, to do that. >> up with your county and get deed alerts as well.

protect against that. >> also, you know, if it did happen, God forbid, you're not going to be on the line for it because it's fraud. And so, you can go through the bank and, you know, maybe some, I don't know, lawsuit stuff.

But at the end of the day, you're not going to have to owe it because it's fraud at that point.

>> Yeah. So, I wouldn't I wouldn't be so worried that I avoid paying my house off. That's wild. Um you're in your 70s.

The There is a much more risk with this mortgage hanging around than there is that you guys experience deed fraud. >> Yep. >> So, I wouldn't worry about that. I would just pay it off and do your due diligence to stay protected, you know, freeze your credit, check the records with your county regularly, get the owner title insurance if you can, all of that good stuff.

But it's a good question and it's a valid concern.

Alan is in Colorado up next. What's going on, Alan?

>> Thank you for taking my call. I have a question about a 529 account that my wife and I have for our son.

When he is finished with college, which is just a couple years down the road, there'll be approximately 120,000 left in the 529 account. >> Oh, wow. >> Way to go.

>> Yeah, yeah, it's pretty strong.

Um I have an opinion on what to do with it, but I was just curious to get, you all's take. >> How old is the 529? When did you open it?

>> Oh, boy. Um our son is 20.

So, let's see, 20 years ago.

>> Oh, great. I was going to say there's the with the new Secure 2.0 Act, you can roll over up to 35 grand if it's been

open for 15 years. You know, you can do that periodically. You can't do all 35 at once, but up to the Roth IRA limit, you can start funding that. So, that's one option. >> Yeah, do you have Do you have other kids, Alan?

>> Uh no, we don't. Just one. >> Okay. It's just this, yeah. Well, if you do that, you know, that's 35 oz. You got about what? 85 or so, 95 left. Um

>> You said you had a plan already. I'm curious as to what you wanted to do.

>> So, we my thought is is keep it keep the

529. It's we're we're the guardian of it. Put it in his name. He's an adult now. But, don't let him touch it. Just have it be there so it's generational.

You know, when his kids are ready to go to college, that's going to be a pretty large sum.

When his kids' kids get ready to go to college, it'll be astronomical.

Um it's something that you could really just just leave leave.

>> That's true. A lot of people don't think about that. It becomes like an endowment basically for your own family.

Generational wealth that no one ever goes into debt for education. And that's personally what I'm doing. A lot of people go, "Well, I don't want to overfund it cuz what if they don't go to college?" And I go, "If I overfund it, they're going to love old old great great grandpa George for setting up this 529 many moons ago." And can I do some

math for you? Your kid is 20, right?

>> He's 20. >> So, let's say he has a kid at what? 25?

Is that fair?

>> Um it's optimistic, but sure. >> Okay. Should we go 30? Is that more more realistic? >> That's Yeah. >> Go 30. Plus 18 years, that kid then grows up. >> So, your son will be 48 when your grandson granddaughter goes to college theoretically. How much would be in the account? >> 20 to 48, if you just left let's say 90 grand in there, right?

>> Didn't do anything. >> You never contribute another dime. You'd have 1.4 million dollars when he's 48. I

hope that's enough to cover college at that point.

>> And something too I was thinking is even if his kids don't want to go or do go and there's extra, at 65, correct me if I'm wrong, you can start using that for his own retirement with with no penalties.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of stipulations with a 529. That and even if he used it in

before then, you know, he'd pay the 10% penalty. But other than that, it's not like wasted money. It's just thrown thrown down the toilet. So, I think you're being very wise with this, and I love the idea of creating generational wealth. And a lot of people don't realize the definition of beneficiary family is pretty loose.

And so, siblings, nieces, nephews, future kids, yourself, your spouse, a grandchild, there's so many options here that you could bless someone with in your family.

>> Agreed. That's right. >> So, let's say you got a brother and they're like, "Hey, they didn't prepare, but the kid doesn't deserve to go into crippling debt just because of that. I'd love to transfer this to them." You can change beneficiaries at any time. >> that point, yeah.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of ways you can go with it. >> Yes, for sure. Well done, Alan. That's

usually not It's usually the opposite problem that we talk to people about.

So, >> It's like a parent plus loan. This is the exact opposite. So, I'm curious, how much money did it cost for your kid to go through school?

>> So, first off, something else, too. We We owe it to Dave Ramsey from like 2005.

You all have been a blessing to both my wife and I. Um so much so that we we actually taught many many FPU classes.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome.

So, this this 529 account, we actually

showed him how compounding interest works. We stopped investing uh in the 529 when he was a freshman in college at 150. That's about where it was at. He's gone through 3 years of school, and

it's at 159.

>> Wow. >> It's crazy. >> it was growing faster than you were withdrawing.

>> That's what I'm telling you. >> That's incredible. >> That's amazing. >> And it sounds like he went to a reasonably priced school, and maybe even got some other scholarships.

>> Yeah, a few scholarships. He wasn't You know, he wasn't Albert Einstein, but he did okay. And and uh yeah, it was a it was a state school, so 20 20 22 23,000.

>> Totally. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. >> That's the dream, Alan. Well done. Well done. We just just applaud you. I mean, honestly, that is >> If you're in the family tree of Alan, you should be thankful right now. >> That's right. >> Pretty awesome. Thank you for the call.

That's That's a cool kind of case study in what actually happens when you do it right. >> Yes. >> And so, I always recommend get started early on that 529, even if it's 100 200 bucks 300 400 500. Now you're talking six figures in there by the time they're 18.

>> For sure. And the college conversation, I feel like it's been around a little bit changing, right? That college is changing. We don't know what it's going to look like. >> Are we all going to be YouTubers and AI's going to do all the work for us?

>> that's right. Like we don't know, but just remember, it's not stuck in there.

To your point, it's not like you're, you know, it's an insane amount. If you were to pull it out, just say like God forbid you're like, "Listen, we don't we don't need this at all, but we need the cash, so we're going to take the penalty." Okay, so then you do that, right? And you pay some of the penalty, but then you have your cash. It's not like you lose it completely, so >> Absolutely.

And people ask, "Well, what if I want to invest for my kid for something else other than school?" I say, "Great. Do the 529.

If you want to invest on top of that, you can just open a brokerage account in your name, a non-retirement account, and put money in there. I'm not a fan of putting the accounts in your kids' names because they legally then have access with the, you know, the UGMA UTMA. At 18, this kid might have 120 grand that's legally theirs. >> Mhm. >> That's frightening. I don't know if you know or any 18-year-olds, most of them

cannot be trusted with a $120,000 pile of money. Most adults can't be trusted with that. >> say. Yeah.

>> And so, I like the idea of me being able to control how much to give to that child for a, you know, a wedding or a down payment or a car, whatever it is to help them get a leg up. >> Yeah, delayed gratification for a 45-year-old 50-year-old it's probably a little bit more embedded than a 18-year-old. So, >> Yes. They need to Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully fully there.

So, that's personally what I'm doing for my kids.

>> And your grandkids. >> And my grandkids. >> Great great great Uncle George. >> That's so weird to think about. But, I think Grandpa George, I'm going to settle into that. >> I love it. >> I'm going to be cranky, senile, and fat.

>> and uh like Steve Martin on Father of the Bride. >> Oh, that's a good one. I thought you were going George Bailey. A lot of good Georges out there movies.

>> Oh, it's a Wonderful Life. That's a good one, too.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Luke 14:11.

For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, [music] and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

C.S. Lewis said, "Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less."

Poetry right there. That's good.

>> Great quote. >> All right, let's go out to Dave in Denver. What's going on, Dave?

>> Hey guys, thanks for having me. I'm I'm a loan officer for mortgages.

My question is, I often get clients mean they come to me needing a mortgage. Most often it's older clients in this situation.

And one spouse has passed away.

I have access to their assets and or see what they what they have, and it's a vulnerable situation.

And really they don't need a mortgage, what they need to do is sell some of their assets to get a to get a home to downsize.

I'm just looking for advice on how to bridge that gap with that and how to properly communicate that to them.

>> Mhm. So, you see this going to a dangerous place and you're like, "How do I help these people when my job is to lend them the money that they're approved for?" >> Yeah, and it's not overly dangerous sometimes, but like uh you know, they have one spouse and maybe all their whole life collecting these assets. And so, when I come along I say, "Hey, maybe you should look at selling some of these." That's kind of a well, you know, my husband or whoever put all this together his whole life, who are you to tell me to sell this kind of thing.

>> Yeah, you you feel like, "Hey, that's outside the boundaries of my job." But it's like your heart is aching for them to be like, "Hey, you really need to go do these things." >> Yeah, so I'm looking for words of wisdom on how to appropriately navigate that. >> Mhm. Well, I think you have the right heart.

Um but I think just starting with, "Hey, I want to make sure this house fits your life, not just your approval amount. And

as I'm seeing it here, I can see the assets over here, I can see what the mortgage payment's going to be. I think things are going to be tight unless you make some moves, make some sacrifices here. And you could offer, "Hey, one recommendation you could pursue is selling these assets, which could do X Y Z." >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And then it's just it's not you telling them what they have to do. You're just saying, "Hey, I try to I >> treat people how I want to be treated and I can see all of your information here and this is what I'm seeing." >> Yeah. And it's kind of a, you know, for them take it or leave it kind of thing, but it's almost for your conscience, you know, you you're like, "Man, I see this and I just want to say it out loud. Um but at the end of the day, they're going to be the ones, you know, making the decision.

And if they don't take that advice and they do something else, that's okay. That's, you know, they're adults and they can do that.

>> Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm just trying to find out how I spread the the Dave Ramsey throughout my entire career.

>> Yeah. Love it. I love it.

>> cuz you know, like well, Dave says, but you can't it do that. It's not going to work. And instead, you you sort of get to the root of it. You say, "Hey, the families that I see thrive when it comes to buying a home, they have margin outside of their mortgage payment to live and to save and to have fun and go on vacations.

And right now, what I'm seeing with your payment, it's going to be a lot of your income taken up by this payment." And so, you can go, "Hey, here's the approval amount, but here would be a let's run the numbers and see what would be a comfortable amount." And then, you can kind of get to the principles without saying "Well, Dave recommends 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage." You know?

>> Yeah, Big Dave. I'm Little Dave. That's Big Dave. >> Little Dave, Big Dave. I like it. That's true. It's all Dave's advice. >> I mean, honestly, that's it's really It'd be so impressive and it would actually um garner a lot of trust, I would think, from the people you're working for.

Because in some situations, I'm assuming, you know, you're asking for them to pay less for a home, you know? And that's money out of your pocket, too, right? If they >> Less loan, less origination fee, less commission, all of it. >> Yeah, I mean, all of it.

So, there's something um I don't know, really trustworthy for you to say cuz you're not you're not doing it the other way to be like, "Hey, you should spend more here with me so I can make more." In some of these cases, it's it's the opposite. And so, um they shouldn't be offended by that, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Well, thank you. >> Absolutely. Thanks for actually being a you know, serving well and serving your customers well and being one of the good guys in the mortgage world. That's fantastic. Rachel, I've got a friend in the mortgage world and he, knowing what I do, he's like, "Dude, you would not believe the debt-to-income ratios people show up with." You're like, "This is bonkers. Like no one should be giving them this loan. And sadly, a lot of the banks you run it through the computer and it goes, yep, give them the loan.

>> That's fine. Yep, yep, we'll just do it.

>> And the bank doesn't always care about the reality of your financial situation.

>> cuz that's part of what got us into the biggest housing disaster in '08 is cuz of that kind of stuff, too. Lending people money out like candy.

>> I know. Oof. >> Keep on doing it, though. Oh my gosh.

>> All right, let's go out to Brian in Alaska. Brian, what's up?

>> Hi, can you hear me? >> Yes. Loud and clear. >> Okay, sweet. Uh so, I am uh in an interesting

situation um where I actually live in uh my dad's

second home or my parents' second home here in Alaska uh while my family lives out of state.

Um and I'm curious I'm I feel like I'm getting a smoking good deal on uh rent here. I you know, I just rent a room, but it's way cheaper than I can rent anything else in the area. How long should I stay here um saving up for a house? Um

it you know, how how long should I let this good deal ride as long as they're willing to give it to me?

>> That's a good question. Uh how old are you? >> I'm 28. >> 28, okay. Are you married?

>> Uh nope. >> You're single? Okay. Any debt? Consumer debt? >> Uh I owe $12,000 on an airplane. Um

but that's in the like a leasing company that I own. >> Okay. 12,000 on it. And that Is that it?

No credit cards or car loans?

Okay, great. And how much >> No credit card. >> And how much do you make a year?

>> Uh last year um so, I started a new job last year uh in 6 months, uh I made about 55,000 um and then this year uh for the for the whole year um I guess it's about 120 to 140.

>> Good for you. Okay, and how much money do you have saved?

>> Um I currently only have like $3,000

saved. Um >> Okay. >> How long have you been living at this at your dad's place?

Uh so I've been living here about 3 years. Uh I actually used to own half of it and then I sold out um my half to um my stepmom. Um that paid off a lot of my debt and and was able to give me a a down payment for this airplane that I I lease out.

>> Okay, so this airplane, is this a a business you have where you basically rent out the airplane?

>> Yep. >> Okay, what do you make from that? Is that on top of your 140?

>> Uh that that's uh completely separate.

So I make about $40 an hour every time it flies um and right now it's pretty much just all going back into the business for improvements for the for the airplane. >> Got it. >> And I'm paying the the principal for um

I got a loan from a friend of mine. Um it's basically zero interest. Um

that uh that I pay the principal out of my my personal funds and then what the airplane makes just kind of get circulated back into making improvements for the airplane. >> Okay, got you. Okay, so yeah, the whole living you know with parents or on their property or whatever, you know, for a period of time I'm totally fine with it. I think after a while um there needs to be a point that you you know go and you're on your own and you're living you know on your own doing your own thing.

So what worries me is and I know you just got this job 6 months ago you said, so I'm not going to harp on it too much, but you've had a you know you said I'm getting a great deal all this, but you only got $3,000 saved.

but then they don't take what they would have paid in rent or more of what they're saving and actually save it. You know, they end up spending it on restaurants and going on trips and stuff. And so then it ends up being this point of like, okay, you weren't using it actually to benefit yourself or to get you further financially. You were just using it for lifestyle in the moment.

So, if you're doing this, I want you to be really, really disciplined. And you make a great income. And so honestly, Brian, I mean you're a single guy, you're living in Alaska and basically no rent.

something crazy. Like you could bank so much money. Not only pay off this airplane, but >> You could have six figures saved up, you know, by the end of the year or maybe into a little into 2027.

>> really quickly. And I would I would use that for a down payment on a home cuz as soon as you can get something in your name building equity, that's the best route for you, Brian. So, I'm okay with it for a little bit, maybe a year or two, but I would be so disciplined in that to actually put that money in that savings towards your future and a future home for yourself. >> say, "Hey Dad, I'm going to be out on my 30th birthday." >> [music] >> And that's the plan.

And you go, "I'm going to save up like a madman until then. I'm going to live off a thousand or 1,500 bucks a month, and the other six, seven grand is going to go into savings for that [music] house." Build for your own future and independence, and you will not regret it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 16. Break The Cycle And Build Wealth | March 30, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Marie kicks us off in Washington D.C. What's going on, Marie?

Uh hello. Um I'm calling with what I hope is a very uh simple ask and recommendation from you guys. Uh I have a boyfriend of 4 years and he simply refuses to talk to me about his debt or

his uh financial situation.

How do I convince him to trust me enough to discuss with me? Yeah, it's been 4 years. I don't know if you can.

I don't think there's a simple answer here other than get to the root of what's going on here. Why Why is he Is he scared? Is there a trust issue?

Does he have baggage? What do you think is behind it based on what you know about him? So, I talked to him the other day about it just to so I can understand why maybe

he doesn't and he reminded me and I didn't remember this uh that I loaned him like $4,000 uh a

few years ago when he was purchasing his house. And he said I treated it like um a bank transaction.

And I was really stringent upon payback

um payments that he would have to make me. >> Uh huh. So, that Okay, that's good.

That means that he That means there is a reason and so there there's likely some shame there. If he's thinking about that often, thinking, "Man, she's strict.

Like, she's serious about her money." He's probably afraid that if he reveals what's going on with his money, that you'll be judging him and you'll Or that you'll leave him, abandon him. If he's not, you know, cut out for you, if he's not financially responsible enough for you. >> And by the way, is that true?

Um so, background on me and him, we're both retired military. He's a retired Marine.

I'm retired Army.

Um we both have good six-figure jobs, but on my side, um I'm going to pay off

my house in 4 years. I'm going to fully retire in 5, but he's not at that level

because, you know, he's he's divorced.

He has kids in college. So, I think

because he sees how financially secure I am on my end, >> Uh-huh. and how really I budget ever I budget down to the dime, right? So, how strict I am with my budget, that I'll expect him to

be that way and not understand why he

has the debt he has.

>> Well, is that true? Is my question. Now, it it's fair for you to say, I ex- like, have a set of expectations, like, "Yeah, I expect us to be a little bit more intentional." Or a lot bit more intentional. "I expect certain things." But, the question comes in, will you be judging him?

Will your tone be judgmental? Will you like, how will If he tonight says, "You know what, Marie, let's talk." And he divulges a lot of things that truly are shocking to you, how will you react? Because that if you can hold up the mirror and get a sense of who you really are and what you Do you know what I'm saying? And kind of do a little bit of self-analysis there, that can help your next conversation with him and say, "You know what, I can really see how you would be that way." And And maybe set him up and say, "Listen, I can't guarantee that I I I won't maybe have a reaction.

And just you guys really talk like emotionally aware people.

Mhm. Yeah, I I do think I would be judgy. I hate to say that, but it But that's honest. Yeah, my face He says your face is going to show it immediately and I was like, I I want to be able to be compassionate

and understand your situation, but I I'm going to have to get that initial how I feel out so we can develop a plan to get to get to to

assist him into getting better

and and help his finances. I think you I

think you being able to come into that and basically validate what he's already feeling is a really good first start. I also think more than I mean, I don't know George, but the bigger thing is why? Like what's this all headed towards cuz you've been dating for 4 years. Are you thinking that you're going to get married? Is this the next step before the proposal? Like why suddenly is all of this a big deal is is my biggest question. So, we want to move in together and buy a house together. I'm I'm I'm a divorcee

also, so I'm not sure on the marriage part. So, that's that's a scary question for me, but I do believe we can cohabitate, but I don't want to cohabitate and feel that it's it's it's not fair between us

both on our finances. That one person is

putting in more than the other. I want us to go in go in with everything being

equal and that we're we combine our households and and and be able to build that part of our life. >> Have you told him that?

Yeah, he knows. We're we've looked at houses and I'm like, once I pay off my house, I'll take everything I put down in this house, um the 700,000 I paid on

this house, I'll put it on our new house. The issue is if you do this through cohabitation, it's going to feel like he's a roommate and you foot the bill. And I would not recommend cohabitation before marriage for a thousand reasons, but especially in your case, it's going to feel like there's a power imbalance. Mhm. And I don't want that for him. So, what's going to happen over time? I'll tell you what happens 10 years from now, we fast forward. You're going to resent him, and he's going to feel a lot of shame.

Yeah. And it's never going to move forward. And so, financial transparency is emotional transparency. You can't have one without the other. And so, anything he's hiding now is just going to be magnified in marriage or if you cohabitate.

And so, I think you need to align on the values and tell him straight up, "I don't expect you to have the same financial brain and personality I do, but I do expect that we're aligned on financial values if we're going to combine our lives in any way, shape, or form." Agreed. >> That's not high standards. That's the baseline. I agree.

I I would caution you, Marie, and again,

you you might have a different outlook on this, and I, you know, I can keep space for that. However, I've done this show for a little bit of time, and I see this over and over. If you don't set fair expectations going forward, you're going to have a set of unrealistic expectations. And what I mean by that is you're setting yourself up in a scenario where you're viewing it as full commitment, but it's not really full commitment.

So, because of that, it's always going to feel a little imbalanced. He's probably always going to be wondering, like, "Is this enough or do I need to do more? Does this count or does this not count, right? Does it count for me to be able to go out and spend this money or and tell her or is that in some way wrong?

It's always going to be confusing. Yeah. >> I think at the root of it, I don't know him. I've never talked to him, but here's my guess.

If he was to be fully known, you wouldn't love him the way you do now. Mhm.

And he has he's he's been hurt. I mean, you both have been divorced. You both have a lot of emotional baggage you're carrying into this thing. And so you need to understand what was money like in his past relationship.

Was that a part of why it didn't work out? But here's what I do know, and you can put this on your mirror, Marie. You can't build a future with someone who's hiding their present. Oh, okay.

It's impossible. And so you you can't ignore this. This is a giant red flag, and I hope that you guys can resolve this. You get the values.

You do remarry. You do find love again. This would be the best Hallmark movie of all time if it worked out. So I'm rooting for you guys to make this thing work, but he can't hide this anymore.

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Annie is in Boston up next. What's going on, Annie?

Hi. How are you guys? We're doing great.

How can we help today? So, I got you here. Um so, I uh well, first I have to shout out a friend who really has been encouraging me to listen to you guys uh for a few months now. And uh she knows I've been in a tight financial situation.

I've just been too scared to take the first step, but with her encouragement, I downloaded EveryDollar this week and I just had my first DoorDash shift on my lunch break to try and generate some >> Oh, that's awesome. How did she convince you? I'm curious cuz there's a lot of people out there who want to convince their friend and it's like awkward and they don't want to pry.

So, she's been for one, just a huge cheerleader in every aspect of my life, but I actually suffered uh I was uh I suffered a concussion in a a car accident last year. >> Oh, man. Um I have an attorney and I'm supposed to getting my settlement in about a month or two. And she's really been pushing me to figure out how I'm going to utilize that money um to best kind of clear up my financial situation because I've been in a significant amount of debt for a couple of years now living paycheck to paycheck on a $78,000 salary.

Wow.

Uh right now I have 41,000 in some personal loans and uh credit card debt.

Okay. And um do you know >> I also have a car payment. I have a car payment that's 7,000 uh not 7,000 a month, it's 7,000 remaining on the car. Got it. And when this settlement comes settlement comes in, do you know how much it's going to be or do you have a a ballpark?

I have a ballpark. It'll be between 33 and 40,000 dollars. Okay. So, tell us a

little bit about what caused you to accumulate um you know, 40 48,000 dollars of debt over the course of however many years.

Honestly, it's down to four poor of uh financial planning and no financial education from my parents, honestly.

Mhm. Um I ended up taking out credit cards and uh not really realizing how quickly that would add up. Um I've also got uh just some some personal stuff that's required me to make some like kind of ridiculous purchases over the last year for good reasons, but things that I couldn't finance living paycheck to paycheck while paying off other debts. Mhm. Um I won't make excuses for it. It's been poor planning.

Um and just not having a good hand on my money, being impulsive, kind of relying on that endorphin hit of hitting, you know, submit on a purchase. Um so, my

question really is I'm about to get out of the majority of my debt. Um I want to make sure that I

don't find myself in this position again in 2 years. Um what can I do to shift my mindset to make sure that this sticks and that you know, once I pay off all my debt or what I can with this settlement, I have a plan to pay off the rest and I you know, dashing that will help me accelerate that. I just want to make sure, like I said, I don't find myself in this position again in a couple of years. So, how can I shift my mindset?

>> Yeah, well, I love that you're thinking ahead like that even knowing that it could be a potential issue and understanding uh that anytime you get a large sum of money, George, or even if you have a large income, money is not it can't solve bad habits, right? You'll just burn through it, you'll blow through it, and I'm glad that you're seeing that. I can tell you for me, my husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt over the course of 7 and 1/2 years.

is over that time you learn a lot, right? You actually learn why are credit cards bad? You actually learn why is it

better to purchase cars in cash from now on? Not just I don't like the feeling of debt, I'm paying it off. That won't allow it to stick. >> And so what you're doing now, I would say is let's bullet point that as education.

So getting the education around the the why the the why behind the what basically. Why am I paying off the debt? Why are credit cards bad? Why do car loans suck?

You know, why am I avoiding student loans? That is so powerful. It's the same thing of like, you know, when you learn when you learn what what goes into McDonald's fries, it makes you not want to go to the drive-thru and get McDonald's fries even more because you're like, oh god, that really is really bad, right? So keep listening to the show and then the other part of that that I would say, honestly, it's very underrated, but the community of being around people who are doing the same things you're doing and kind of have the same mindset, it makes it a lot easier because now you're not the crazy one.

You know, when you're your buddy >> so great for that. Yeah, your buddy who put you on to Ramsey show like that's the type of folks you want to be around at this point. Mhm. So there's an emotional side of this and Jade's been hitting on that.

There's a pragmatic side. And I love this this Deloney quote. He always says, don't forget to remember. And so think about the end of that sentence.

Don't forget to remember how stressful life was when you were in crippling debt. And you were paycheck to paycheck. And so I think that's part of the emotional side of going, I worked my butt off. I don't want to ever be in that situation again. And then there's the pragmatic side, which is, "Hey, let's have an emergency fund. That's our never going to debt again insurance plan. If we have 3 to 6 months set aside, cuz what reason would you really have to go into debt?" If you had 20 grand laying around?

And then on top of that, doing a monthly budget, just paying attention to that amazing $78,000 income, going, "Hey, I'm going to make a plan for this before a marketing company has a plan for it, before this Instagram ad has a plan for it." You've got to get ahead of those plans. And so, you can create sinking funds. So, maintenance and repairs.

Don't act like everything's a surprise in your life. That's how most people go through life, just reactive. They call the show and say, "Well, Jed, I didn't have a choice. I had to. Well, it just happened. I didn't know I was going to ever need new tires." And that's how broke people stay broke.

So, being proactive, staying ahead of it, get the emergency fund in place.

When you're out of debt, you got to stay gazelle intense through that phase. Once you get out of debt, let's build up 3 to 6 months of expenses put away. And then what I do is I add friction to my life to make it more difficult to do things that I know are bad for me.

Right? If you have donuts in the pantry, you're probably going to eat the donuts.

So, what I do financially, freeze your credit with all three credit bureaus, so that no one, including you, can open debt in your name. So, add some layers of friction. Remove your card info from sites that are tempting you. You know, those are some pragmatic things you can do on top of the emotional side.

I think the emotional side and mindset is more important, but I do I'm a practical guy, so I like to get tactical with the things you can do. And you already have every dollar, so you know making a plan for your money is the number one way to get control of it and not go back into debt. But then also, you're you've changed your identity, Annie.

Yeah, I am. You're the kind of person who doesn't want to owe people money.

You're the kind of person who doesn't buy things she can't afford, even if it's shiny and she had a hard week at work.

Right. >> Those are the kinds of people who build wealth. They're just so focused and they know who they are and nothing nobody's going to change that. That's who you need to become in order to never go back into debt again. Yeah, Annie, I'm going to send you a copy of my book what no one tells you about money because it really talks about all the things that George and I just laid out for you and I

think it's going to just help you get a better handle on it. And honestly, I I was talking to I don't remember who I was talking to the other day, George, but I was saying the folks who really really succeed on the baby steps and that it really clicks for them are the people who understand that it's not just about money. Like the principles that we teach, that behavior of being intentional and paying attention like you were saying, George, it if you if you look at it long enough, you go, "Wait a second. This is really the equation that causes me to be successful in really any area of life." Yeah.

Whether it's you're trying to get in shape, you're trying to affect your diet, you're trying to be, you know, have a more intentional relationship with your loved ones, it's all the same thing. It's about being intentional, it's about understanding how to set yourself up for success, it's about understanding like the cues that trigger you to do the wrong behaviors versus the things that trigger you to do the right behavior. It's all the same and once you get that, that's when it's like no one can stop you.

Oh, you guys are so great. You're so motivating. I love this. We're happy to do it, Annie. Thank you so much for the call. I have Can I ask you one last quick question?

Hit us.

Uh once I have some more margin available in my budget, I would love to invest in some more Ramsey Solutions like opportunities like Financial Peace University. At what point does that become a smart opportunity versus like when should I try and like knock out all the debt first? Like what what comes first? >> love that question. I There's there's certain things that is like immediately.

You know what it reminds me of like should I should I wait till I'm in shape to get a personal trainer? Yeah. Well, you're too late. You've already done it.

And so, it's it's worth the investment in your future. Now, uh lucky for you, Annie, since we like you so much, we're just going to give you Financial Peace University. So, you don't have to pay for it. But, it would have been worth the investment in Baby Step 2. Think about it. If that gets you out of If If 80 bucks gets you out of debt forever and causes you to build wealth and become a multi-millionaire, was it worth the 80 bucks? Yes, ma'am.

>> 100 times over. >> 100%. >> So, I love it, Annie. You got such a great question. We're so pumped for you to be become debt-free real soon. And Jade's right, at the root of the entire plan is just intentionality, delayed gratification, discipline. Live on less than you make. Burn more calories than you take in. That's how to lose weight.

It's how to get out of debt. And it's a principle that would carry you very, very far in life. Thanks for the call.

Hang on the line, we'll get you those resources.

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>> Brandy is in Grand Rapids up next.

What's going on, Brandy? Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. It is an honor. Absolutely. Honor for us, too. What's going on with you today?

So, I am in

um it's kind of like an interesting predicament. So, I moved from a um a

larger city um you know, so obviously like resources, opportunities, um and I moved to a more not even more,

a significantly more um rural and secluded area um a couple years ago to

live with my partner and because he owns

a home, whereas I was, you know, living in a in a bigger city, you know, paying a lot in rent and we wanted to build our

life together. So, instead of me

paying all that money in rent, um I moved away from these resources, away from these opportunities. Um I work from home and my money was supposed to go

into like, you know, renovating our home

and starting, you know, investing in our in our life together.

And I know if Dave was here, he would say that my first was mistake was doing this before there was a ring on my finger. And I don't necessarily disagree with that. >> the hour is cuz it's his home.

Right. I absolutely and that's absolutely true. Um but uh I I want to invest in in a life with him

and and his daughter. Okay.

>> And um where it's more that >> Well, so that's the presumption I've been under, you know, as as he moved me away from my life and I made these sacrifices. >> Ah, hold up. Roll roll it back. Run it back just a little bit. >> Yeah, cuz he didn't move you. You chose to move. Did he kidnap you, put you in a trunk, and cuz if so, we need to call the police.

No, you're totally right. Absolutely.

>> scared me. Okay. We're being We're being We're being strong on it, but it's so important that you do own your part of this as you as you untangle this because it'll just help you have those fair conversations with him when the time comes for you to talk about all of this.

No, you're completely right. Cool. Cool.

>> Absolutely. So, you're kind of trying to You're thinking ahead going, "Okay, I I moved out here because I did see a future, and now now what? Now's now

what's happening?" What's your question? >> um So, a couple years ago in fall um of 2024, my car broke down.

And um we we tried to repair it. He's

very handy, but it was just a very crappy car. It was beyond repair, unfortunately, to our even beyond our even beyond our best efforts.

So, we we just scrapped it, and I've tried very hard to save, you know, but I

even the job that I work, I make 37,000

a year doing this job um paying most of the expenses here because he's a semi truck driver. He's gone almost all week. He's rarely ever home.

So, we decided that it was fair that I make I make I pay most of the expenses here. He doesn't make money when he's gone driving the truck?

Huh? He doesn't make money? That doesn't make sense that just because you're home, you pay it. Are you saying like physically I'm the one who puts the check in the mail, or are you saying like financially I'm the one that covers it? >> all expenses.

So, he pays for the mortgage and the property taxes. I pay for the the internet here. I pay for the electricity here. How does that break out like How does that break out percentage-wise? Is it like 50/50, or is it like 60/40?

>> paying 300 bucks a month and he pays 1,500?

Yeah, that Yeah, he pays significantly more money each month than I do because the mortgage is a lot more than what I pay each month for stuff. >> And that's essentially your rent, cuz you're not really paying rent. Right.

Right. >> you're saying you pay a greater percentage of your money than he does.

Is that what you're saying? Cuz you made it seem like you were doing more.

Wait. Sor- Sorry. I didn't I couldn't hear you. >> It made it sound like you were >> most of the expenses, but percentage-wise you're covering 10 or 20%.

>> Correct. Yeah. Yep. And then I cover I cover the groceries in the home. I cover like the household essentials and stuff that we need. Any kinds of like anything that we use in the home I cover. Okay.

So, where Tell us where the problem is.

Tell us where the rub is.

So, the My thing is is that um I I do a

lot to support the home, especially him and his daughter. And the the issue is

that I don't make very much I don't make enough money to really save a lot. And it It's so I take that back. I do make enough money to save. There have been setbacks. I like I got an unexpected ticket from a beach in the next town over cuz apparently we went on a red flag day and we didn't know. >> Right, but this is normal life. This is life. Tell us where the problem is.

So, the problem is is I have I have had a car in all this time, and he puts an immense amount of pressure on me for not having a car, and does not

like doesn't want to help me get there.

And it's fine that he doesn't want to help me get there, but the problem is is like I don't know why I came down here to do it by myself because the reason I came here is because I was under the impression that I was making the sacrifices to be here

in order for us to do things together.

Yeah. Like I stepped away from an area where I had opportunities to make more money Brandy, I think there's a hard truth here. >> I think you made a lot of assumptions. You had a lot of unfair expectations and now you have a lot of resentment toward this guy. And you guys aren't even married. He owes you nothing. I mean, he could break up with you today. >> Right. And >> Absolutely no and >> I think you need to move back home.

Sure. And that's what I've been thinking about too. And the thing is is it wasn't assumptions. These were conversations that were had. >> Right. >> Right. And I believe that I believe you guys probably spoke about it and it sounded really good for both of you. I mean, you're not >> Mhm. It had to have made sense in your mind for you to move out there. But the truth is the truth is he doesn't have

the motivation to hold up that end of the bargain cuz why does he need to?

He's got everything he wants. He's got a woman at home that's taking care of his kid. He you know, you guys have whatever relationship that you have, you know, romantically and and for him it's like why? Well, like this seems pretty good. Like it's pretty good for him. >> Exactly. And I just to me And he's under no obligation to provide for his girlfriend financially. Yeah. Now, if he wanted to, that's his prerogative, but he clearly doesn't want to.

Mhm. Now, can I can I say something that

you might not like? But this is take it or leave it. This is just me trying to be you know, your buddy us having lunch together.

I don't know, but there might be part of this and and you can you shoot me straight. There might be part of this that because there's two sides every story. He might be experiencing you in a way that goes, you know, this girl like she's kind of like left her her whole life and she's kind of following me and she's kind of I just want to see can she will she do anything for herself? Like she left her job to do this.

I want to see it like maybe he's having this side where he's like, I want to see what she's going to do.

Is she going to Maybe he has a set of

expectations that he's waiting to see if you'll do. I don't know if I'm right.

I'm not trying to make him the bad guy or you the bad guy. I'm just trying to see it from both sides.

Yeah, oh and we we well, we have conversations about this like frequently because I So well, and that's the thing.

It's I lived in this big larger area, I was actively pursuing career opportunities, like actively furthering my career and sacrifice like that would That's what I mean when I I made sacrifices, huge sacrifices to be

here because I thought that we were you know, we were going to be supporting each other. Like that's what I mean like you know, And to be fair, that is that's an initial sacrifice and I hear you on that. I think you're exactly That is a huge sacrifice. My question is, do you have to continue to live like that or can you go, okay, I sacrificed my big job and all this.

I'm here now. Do I have to stay like this or what is it that I can do to make the best of this opportunity?

exhausted everything and you've made the best of everything that you can? Cuz if that's the case, then yeah, George is right. It's like if that's not what you want out of your life, yeah, you got to move it on.

Mhm. Cuz like when I'm like I'm not even like asking to be provided with like a nice vehicle. I'm like I'm

just like a way to get from like

A to B. I'll be honest with you. I'll be I'm going to be dead honest with you. I don't think he needs to provide you for for a vehicle.

I don't think that's going to be good for either of you because then you'll be relying on him. I really do think that you need to go out and make this happen. And if you don't feel like you can be your best self in that environment, you need to move on and do what's best for you. You've got a lot of resentment built up, Brandy, and I don't know if we can pop that bubble and diffuse it all.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance. Or

they don't have any at all. >> I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me in for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, Me, too. and they don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, It's terrifying.

>> to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly.

>> the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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Tax season is upon us, and if you want to get some free checklists, some guides that'll help you file, go to ramsaysolutions.com/taxes.

Beth is in New York City up next. Beth, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um Sure. Well, first off, so a a sister in my church bought me the Money Makeover book and the workbook and I downloaded the app, so I'm I'm I'm ready to you know, take responsibility and and make changes to my life. And so as I'm Yeah, it's all good stuff.

So, I just have one problem. So, as I'm going through my numbers and I'm literally in the workbook writing like I'm the problem when it comes to self-employment tax.

Yep. And so I'm finding myself um I did

pretty good last year, but what happened was is if something comes up or if anything, I go into that um into that account, which is part of my bank account. I put it in a savings

and I use it as when I get paid the next month and then I put the money back. So, I'm not being so strict.

>> dipping into your tax savings and using it and then you don't have enough to pay the taxes.

Right. But like I said, things I I paid for this year, I filed, everything was good, but I had to I I've I've been doing this back and forth.

Yeah. For 2 or 3 months, I do so well, I'm strict. What How can I put this money aside and not even look at it as if it's not even cuz my paycheck comes in and then like I auto I automatic I have the transfer from my checking to that savings account, but it's there. I see it.

>> Because it's connected. Okay, well, anyway, the solution's simple. You put the cookie jar high enough that you can't reach it without a really tall ladder that you got to go get from a neighbor's house.

Yeah. Mhm. So, that's what I would do personally. I I go, you know, you can sign up for our Fairwinds high yield savings account, fairwinds.org/ramsey and it's a different bank than you have now and then send the tax money over there and pay the taxes out of that account. >> Mhm. And make sure it doesn't have a debit card associated with it. That's that's what we used to do.

Uh we would uh send it to a savings account that didn't have a debit card attached to it and because it was uh a separate bank and in our case it was an online bank, you couldn't just get it.

It would take like 3 days You got to go through these hoops just to access it.

And so that's what I would do. Now we have we need to fix the root problem, which is you needing to dip into savings to cover these expenses, but in the meantime >> Exactly. I still would protect myself from myself. Yeah, what's happening in your month to month that this is constantly being a thing because I'm guessing this is like a decent amount of money. I mean, it's probably a couple of thousand bucks, right?

So I put aside now starting this first

this year of my income. So I have to put aside 600 I'm sorry, 500 every month.

Okay. Just to put it aside.

>> a quarter. So that means we've got a month to month budget problem of around $500.

Yeah, so I I'm a single mom and I do

live month to month. That's something also that I realized and accepted while reading your book. I'm not done yet. And also, you know, the same thing goes with my emergency money.

I put the money aside. I do good for a month or two or three and then something comes up. I have to dig in. What are the types of things that come up?

Because what I want to determine is is this really a I need more income to cover the things that I really need that I'm forgetting to budget for or is it a thing that hey, these kind of frivolous things pop up and I just don't say no to them.

So it's that I have to basically be more

strict with my money. So the app helps me when I put in the numbers. I'm like, wow, I really do have so two more money left over than I thought, right? I spent too much money on groceries. Okay. Also,

um things come up like I signed up my son for soccer, which I can I cannot not do that. I don't want to take away something from him that he loves just because mom has one income, you know? >> that. So, there you go.

Yeah, so I went into my self-employment tax and I paid and I took out $550, right? Right. So, we need to find something else. We need to find another category.

If you if you're saying, "Hey, soccer's the one thing I'm I'm just not going to budge on." We need to find another category or multiple categories that you can pull this money from. >> Or we need to go make more money. >> Or more money. >> it, too.

But think about it this way, if you work for someone else, like an employer, that money would have never touched your account. So, you need to picture this like untouchable money that is no longer yours because it's not.

Yeah. And if you think about it that way, then you're not going to be tempted to touch it. Think about it like you're illegally accessing this money cuz it's the government's.

Right. And and if anything, I kind of wish that I wouldn't even get that money with the paycheck when it comes. Well, that's what I'm wondering. Can you Can you do a direct Let's say a direct deposit of whatever the 500 bucks is.

Let's say that's 20%.

Yeah. No, I have to make I have to make those payments um online myself through the EFT, whatever that website is.

Right, but when you do it yourself, I'm saying the direct deposits from your from how you get paid over straight to that account. So, it actually never touches your checking account.

So, this is my big question. Where should I put that money so that I don't see it? Well, why can't you Why can't you directly Why can't you directly put it pay it to EFTPS and just ha- do it do it monthly instead of stacking it up for the quarter? Because the amount is still going to be the same.

I don't think that I I didn't even know that was possible. I think that it is. Check in on that because it's going to When you go on that site, it's going to ask you to select what what quarter, right? For Q1, Q2.

And as long as you're selecting, "Hey, this is for Q1." and you're paying in those taxes, there there's no real benefit to waiting for the quarter other than the fact that it typically is a quarterly thing. You can check my information on that, but I I remember doing that. I used to handle that for Sam and I's business, and I would just when the money came cuz I was like you. I was like, "I don't even want to deal with this." I would just go in and pay it directly, and it just made managing the books easier.

>> And you said, you know, which account. I was talking about setting up a whole different bank account. And as an example, Fairwinds has a great one, a high-yield savings account. It's got an account number, a routing number, and so you can set that all up.

And again, that's fairwinds.org/ramsey to get that smart bundle. Has a no-fee checking and high-yield savings along with it. So, check that out. I hope that helps as a band-aid, but again, we need to get to the root problem so you're not underwater each month.

something that, you know, most people is like, "Hey, we know what it is." but I'm sure there's plenty of people who don't. When we talk about budgeting all the time, it's a very simple equation. We're trying to put our income down. We're trying to uh subtract all of our expenses, and what you hope to have at the end of that is margin, right?

We hope that we can find a number that's in the positive that we can use to go towards whatever your your, you know, goals are, whatever baby step you're on. If for some reason you have not done a budget, you need to do that today because what you're going to find is you're either going to have a number in the red that is "Oh my gosh, I'm over budget. No wonder I've been using a credit card. No wonder I've been paying for my savings." Or you're going to have you're going to surprise yourself and you're going to go, "Wait a second.

discipline here, I could have some real cash at my disposal at the end of every month." And so, I just think, George, a lot of people go through and it's just kind of a guessing game of like, "Uh I'll do a little here, a little there, and if I go over, it's okay. I'll just swipe the old credit card." >> I remember one girl, she said she said I don't look at my checking account cuz I don't need that negative energy in my life. So wow, that is the most hilarious form of denial ever. And so a budget, all it does is reveal.

It's not going to control you, you control the budget, but it's going to reveal where your money's going. Once you see all of your transactions, once you see your income, and most people go, "Oh, wow, I didn't realize I was spending that much. Like I make good money.

And honestly, it gets fun and a little bit addictive once you realize, "Hmm, what else can I cut down on?" Cuz you don't need to spend that much money on a cell phone plan. If you're spending 120 bucks and you go down to 25 bucks, you switch to Boost Mobile, it's like, "Great, you just freed up 100 bucks a month." I also think part of that is there's an assumption that I'm going to dislike this. There's an assumption that I, you know, when we think about a budget, we think about we we picture someone telling us no.

Like a big voice out of the sky, like, "No, you can't have that.

I'm just really in control." Which that's a great feeling to feel like I'm in control of everything. Actually, no one tells me what to do. I'm just deciding this and I have like power over this. It's a very empowering feeling and I would challenge the person who has actually never actually tried budgeting, but has a bunch of like emotions or thoughts or opinions around it.

And I'm like, "Have you actually even tried it?" You know what it feels like? It's if you don't do a budget, you're like in the passenger seat of a vehicle grabbing the oh crap bar. That's what I call it. I don't know the official name.

And you're like, "Whoa, whoa, gosh, this person's a terrible driver." I'm like, "Yeah, cuz no one's in the driver's seat." It's just vibes. And so as soon as you get in the driver's seat, you go, "Oh, I can avoid that pothole if I just pay attention." But you'd rather be in the passenger seat doom scrolling Instagram holding the oh crap bar. And so that's what a budget does. And if you want to check out the one that we've got, I think it's the best one out there on the market.

It's called EveryDollar.

It really will give you an amazing sense of control.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Jade Warshaw.

And it's a free call at 888-825-5225

if you need some advice, some help, just the right next step for where you feel stuck. We will try our best to help you get there. Emily is in Austin, Texas up next. Emily, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hey. How can we help?

So, um I have a question. Uh

Me and my husband live a debt-free life.

We're currently trying to have a family

and we're not rich by any means, but we're able to live beneath our means and save some each month.

My question is my mother is almost 73.

She has nothing saved for retirement.

And we have her set up on for a Medicaid qualifying trust in the event that she has to go into nursing home, she can get the care that she needs. She frequently drops hints that she would love to move in with us and for various reasons, um, that's not an option.

My question is what is the best way to

kind of have and maintain that boundary

and also help her get she needs.

Um, I feel like I haven't gotten anywhere when I've had to try to have frank conversations with her about where she stands financially, but I also don't want to go into a sinkhole

Yeah. And and I I love that you know that that that's not even an option. It's very tough to navigate.

And I can tell you this, there is if you

have in your mind this picture of you saying, "Here's what it is, Mom." and her coming back and going, "Oh, okay.

That makes sense." Right. >> It's just likely not going to be like that because if she's dropping hints, it's because that's what she wants and you're saying something completely contrary to that. And I think the cleanest way to do this is to kind of have written down what you want to say

and to make sure that you don't swerve away from that to make sure that her reactions don't make you go in a different direction and you just talk in a very clean and I'm not saying be robotic but very clean. Mom, I've talked to my husband. Here's what we've decided. Like being being very clear not we were thinking that or we were hoping that no, here's what we've decided.

We have a Medicaid a trust here for you. That's what's going to kick in when this happens. In the meantime, you will stay you know, you will live XYZ Like do you see what I'm saying? You're saying what will happen.

And then what you can do and it's something I've done. I've said, you know what? I'm also going to send this to you so that you can look back on it and and remember what we talked about. And then I'll you know, send them the send the points in a text or send it air drop the file just so that it's very clean and it

what it portrays is I've given this a lot of thought. It portrays that I don't plan on changing my mind because I'm giving you the documentation of it so that you can look back on that instead of continuing to text me the same question over and over again, right? So that's the way I would handle it and I'm just letting you know, if you can be polite but very clean.

And just hope for hope for the best basically. It's it's not going to be okay. >> to be unclear is to be unkind and so it's all about clarity. No more hints cuz what that is is her passive aggressively asking without asking.

Right. And if you let the hints float around then the hard the conversation just gets harder. Right. And I have told her before like that will not be an option. Like we do not have space and capacity. Mhm. But also on a deeper level, it's not good for a marriage. Absolutely.

And I think what you said just having it

in writing as well after having another conversation. Yeah. And saying

>> asking but the answer will stay the same. Well then you pivot to solutions and you go, "Okay, we want to help you figure this out, but our house is not the plan." Right. >> And so now it becomes we're working on some or looking at something together instead of facing each other in opposition. I think too, when you can say, uh, I don't know your husband's name, but when you can say, "Bob and I talked and Bob and I have decided." I think that also reiterates that the family unit has changed, right?

And it's now you and your husband who have your family who are making those sets of decisions. And it's kind of just um subliminal way of reminding her, "Hey, I um things have changed and I have to make decisions about my family with my family. Obviously, you're still part of my family, but it's it's it's different now." Right. >> Um it's not helping her.

So, here's the kind of life you can actually afford." Um I have not done that. I have tried to help her um as far as like with savings and things like that. And kind of the conclusion that I've come to if it's not her idea or if it's not something that she likes, then it's not going to happen. Right. So, I've tried to let her know before just because I'm not doing what you like does not mean that I'm not being helpful for you. You

also have to take, you know, the help that's being offered. Um I mean, it's the old beggars can't be choosers. It's this is the life that you created for yourself. We had no involvement in you having no retirement. Now, you you made choices along the way. Yes, you took care of us, you raised us, and we love you for that. But the truth is you have nothing in retirement. So, we need to figure out how to live off of your social security.

Right. >> Any assets she has, can she sell anything? Can she do a little something part-time if she's healthy and able to try to bring a little more income if she wants XYZ lifestyle.

And you can you can even remind her of the the choices that like if you if you've suggested something and she's like oh I don't want to do that, right?

But then a couple of days later she's talking about the results of not doing that. Like if you've said hey, you're not going to be able to spend money on this cuz you don't have it, right? And then a few days later she's like man, I I'm having a hard time doing this and you're like well, I tried to tell you that. What you can do is remind her by saying I'm not going to be able to help you because remember we talked about this. And so eventually saying I'm not able to help with that.

And then if she says why, it's well because you've said that you're not willing to and that's going to remind her oh, this really is Here's the help we are willing to give. And you can either choose or accept or reject that help. >> Yeah. But that's it.

This is what we can do. >> Okay. And I that's it's not a fun conversation. I'm not we're not we're making this sound like just do this and it's going to be great.

Right. >> keep pushing on this little loose Jenga piece, I can get this thing to crumble.

>> Yeah, and and you also have the ability, you know, you can decide based on what you know about that relationship, how many times am I going to answer this question or how many times am I going to entertain this conversation about this specific topic.

So you can decide hey, after I'll give her like three or four times on it, but after four, I'm going to then say I've

said this a couple of times now. I'm no longer going to discuss this one with you. Like you can say that and then you hold yourself to that. These are really tough things uh but they're they're good boundary exercises to to start practicing.

Thank you both so much. Yeah, I'm so sorry, Emily. This is one of those things where it's like you're now kind of having to do the parenting. >> If the roles flip flop, man.

>> weird. And it's a good reminder that the biggest expense that's facing uh generation right now is not your kids college, it's your parents care.

It's called the burden retirement where you now have to fund your parents care and potentially raise your own kids. So now you've got this kind of sandwich generation. We're stuck between with their own financial problems and they don't want mom on the street, but they also can't take her on as a financial burden. And that's where these conversations early often with clarity and kindness is the only path forward.

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Laura is in Portland, Maine up next.

Welcome to the show. How can we help?

Thank you for taking my call. It's great to speak with you guys. You as well.

Okay. I am on baby step two. I am

Gazelle intense now.

And here's the dilemma.

I have two consumer loans. One loan is a

vehicle secured loan through my bank.

And the other one is the dreaded 401k

loan.

I do have 4,000 in credit card of the total is 33,400

roughly of everything.

But do I switch gears and make this 401k

loan a priority?

And I know now that I listen to the show

that I'm probably never ever going to recommend a 401k loan to anyone. As as

well as to myself. But further than that my company is starting to do some downsizing. Uh-oh. So I also have some worry. And I'm on baby step two. So I mean my backup is a $1,000

savings if anything was to happen. Yeah. So for those listening, she's worried about that because if you lose your job, that can become due very fast because the loan you owe that money. It can become become due as quickly as like 60 to 90 days in some cases or a calendar year in other cases. It really just depends.

>> Potentially by your tax filing deadline for the following years. That might give you some runway, but I would find out.

That's your first homework assignment.

Yes. Yes.

Good good thought. I have not dug into that. Yeah. >> in touch with HR and say, "Hey, what would happen to my loan if for some reason I was separated from the company.

That's it. And then you'll kind of know what happens and when and what the ramifications are and how soon you need to pay. Uh you have a thousand dollars in savings now?

I do. Okay. How imminent are these layoffs?

They're random.

They they don't Right now, my my area

seems to be okay, but that being said,

we've had a definite down tick in the amount of work that my area sees. Okay.

>> So, that's where I'm That's where I'm Uh 56,000 a year. What's the car loan?

What's the balance on that?

13,350.

Okay. And the 401k loan balance?

15,970.

Okay. And then the credit cards?

4,100.

All right. So, the 401k loan would be second in the debt snowball right now.

And you're going, "Hey, should I put that up first because of this layoff situation and being in a precarious spot?" Right. Would there be severance with these layoffs? Have you seen that happen?

I have seen severance. Um I actually have co-workers that I've uh

you know, that they've they've been put in where they have a severance option.

They have They're given the choice to find something else within uh the company within 60 days or

take the severance, which would be >> not a horrible plan. I have over 20 years with this company. Mhm. Yeah. And I'm just >> "Hey, should you pause everything and just stack up cash right now?" And that way you number one, you have a little emergency padding if you do get laid off. And number two, you might have enough to cover the whole 401k loan by the time this stuff blows over. I I Honestly, if I woke up in your shoes, that's exactly what I would do.

And that's been my That's what I wake up at 2:00 a.m. thinking about. Yeah, because it's a storm and and you have the ability to see the storm coming, which is a a little bit of benefit. And so it's like, yeah, if you can start prepping and start doing all the things that are going to put you in a better situation, 100% I would do that. Are you single? Okay.

I'm married. Okay. Um is your spouse working outside the home? Yes. Okay, what do they make? >> covers most of he he makes around 130. Oh.

>> So you have a household income of 180k 186?

Yes. He's covering most of the household expenses right now so I can focus on this. And he's doing great. I mean >> guys have separate finances it sounds like. We do. We do. We're not totally

He's not totally on board with with Ramsey's um plan.

>> So we he wouldn't help you pay off this debt with his amazing income.

He could. He's He's He's balancing everything right now. When I say everything, like he's paying the mortgage all the way down to the groceries to the internet. >> Well, you said he could. We want to know would he? Obviously he could, he has the money. Would he take a bullet for you?

He He would. Oh, yeah. >> wouldn't help you pay off a 401k loan.

Oh. >> He would if he really had to. I mean It

sounds like he really has to. Here's the thing. >> If you were Listen, if my wife was stressed to the gills staying up till 2:00 a.m. worried about this layoff and 401k loan, I'm not going to go, "Yeah, good luck, honey. Sounds like a tough spot. I'm going to go take my $130,000 salary and cover the mortgage." >> Honestly, that is wild behavior. Yes, I agree. Yeah. >> So part of this problem is due to the lack of unity in your own marriage.

Yes. I agree. And it's probably what got you here. The fact that you needed to turn to debt because you are basically on your own financially.

Right. I mean, I'm a spender and he's a saver and I'm the worrier and he's the

don't worry if this happens, honey, we'll handle it. And I'm just like but how will we? How long have you guys been married?

We've been together for 24 years, and we've been married for 12.

>> How much does he have in savings?

He's got 2,000-ish.

And he's the saver?

He's the saver. >> Woah, yikes. >> all he He just paid off all his debt, too. Once I said we're not we're I mean, he we're we're doing the plan. We're not doing the plan exactly. >> No, you're not doing the plan. Don't say that. I'll be honest, you guys would have been completely debt free by now if you were doing this thing together. >> Yeah. We probably would. That's Cuz there's zero accountability, zero transparency, and that's caused a lot of this mayhem.

So, >> You guys need to get to the bottom of why that is. >> can solve that, then we can be less freaked out about all of this other stuff. That's what I'm getting at.

>> Right. But the band-aid is you pause your own debt snowball and try to stack up some cash. But it's going to be a whole lot harder on 56 than it would be on 186.

Right. >> You could save a 15 grand in 3 months if you guys worked together.

And I think part of it is I feel guilty that I spent and didn't make the best

choices, and I, you know, here's the shoes, and oh, I can afford this, and why not do this, and this and that and vacation, and that. >> Like, I think it's fair to to have the accountability of being able to look back on previous actions and go, "Oh, man, that wasn't smart, or I shouldn't have done that." There there there's health to that and being able to, you know, like, take responsibility for bad choices. But don't you don't you agree there comes a point where it's kind of like, all right, that's enough. Like, have you ever talked to Have you ever been in a conversation with somebody and they keep bringing up something, and after a while you go, you have to set that boundary and go, "Hey, I don't want to keep talking about that." Right.

Don't you think then don't you think there's that time that you with your own self you go, "Yeah, I know.

That was like 10 years ago or that was like 2 years ago.

That's enough. I don't want to keep talking about it. Let it go, man." Right? So, I think you just have to do that with yourself, um as well because otherwise you're just going to That's going to be the refrain that is always in your brain why you can't work together.

Well, after all, I did do that thing 10 years ago. Like, you got to stop. >> Yeah. And if he's willing to If you tell me he's truly willing to do this, but the only reason you're not is cuz you feel guilty, then then I'm singing that even louder to you like, "Hey, let it go, man." Like, you got to let it stop because everybody makes mistakes.

Right? >> Right. Right. Oh, yeah. We both have. We We definitely have learned some lessons when it comes to money. I mean Yes.

>> I feel like we need to sit down, both read The Total Money Makeover, talk about it. >> Say that to him. Be Say and lead not leading with an attack, but just leading with, "Hey, I've done a real terrible job in this marriage and I apologize and I feel like we have zero unity and I would love to get on the same page. I know it's been 24 years. I know it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but I think our marriage and future are worth it." It's hard to argue with that.

Nothing for him to really disagree with there. He's going to go, "Yeah, you're right." >> No. And I've learned so much from this show.

I mean, he doesn't listen cuz he's not able to cuz of the type of work he does, but I I just have to say Is it illegal for him to listen to this show? I didn't know there was jobs like that. >> I know. I'm like at night on a walk.

No, he he um he works in construction and he works in the field and he just wouldn't be able to. I mean, he has earplugs in, just not, you know, they're not good for you. And his commute home, he needs just dead silence just to recover from the day, apparently. Well, I'm wishing you guys the best, Laura, in cleaning this mess up. There's a lot of layers to this, but you will be okay in the end, especially if you can get some unity.

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All right, Max is in New York City up next. What's going on Max?

Hi, yeah.

So you're going to have a ton of questions as to how I got in this hole but you know, I'm 26. I'm in New York City and I found myself in 14 closer to $15,000 in credit card debt

unemployed and renting a shoe box 184 square foot

apartment for 2750 a month.

Um and you know, I'm not I'm not I know I'm not the first person to find myself in this hole but I just don't see a way out of it and you know, the my best ideas at the moment are take out another credit card with a 0% APR balance transfer

I don't know 12 21 months and just push this debt down the road or >> That's your best idea?

Well, you know, we'll get to the some of the backstory if you want but you know, that or do I you know, at 26 years old is it worth just looking into filing bankruptcy? Are you a New Yorker or did you move there to try to pursue something?

No, so I came here on a suggestion because I I had I was at complete rock bottom and I had nowhere else to go and and somebody else was willing to float the first 6

months of my living expenses to be here. I got out

of my third residential rehab program for drug and alcohol abuse. You know, I just made it to 18 months clean and sober for the first time in my life. >> Wow, that's impressive.

Yeah, I'm very proud of that, you know, and I'm you know, like diving into spirituality and and you know, trying to strengthen relationship with God and can't can't believe that I got here and now I'm like, what the hell where do I even start? I have just no financial literacy. That was never part of my upbringing with my parents and I'm just feeling feeling screwed. Yeah. What was it what what were you doing? What was the work you were doing before it it went sideways?

Yeah, after you know, after applying to every entry-level position, I was given a job by someone

in a 12-step program recovery program. He owned a a a bit of a canine concierge service and he allowed me to walk dogs for him. Wow.

Is there anything on your record that would make it tough for you to get employment like anybody else?

Yeah, I mean, I've been turned out yeah.

Yes, there is.

And the reason I feel stuck in New York City is because I am not legally allowed to drive anywhere in the country.

Understood. >> I came to New York City for the subway. So you need somewhere with public transit.

But there's a lot of options for that. So you're not stuck in New York City, you're stuck in a city that has some way to get around with public transportation.

Yeah. Okay, what were you making doing the canine concierge?

Right at about 60 grand a year. That's what I was that's what I was on par for.

Wow. >> Mhm. Have you been looking for jobs? Is that where you want to stay right now?

Could you jump to a different similar job?

Um, I've I've I've just I've applied

everywhere um except bars and restaurants because I'm I'll be honest, I'm a little worried about going in back in I was a bartender before I I got sober. >> and we're going to say no to that. Like going to that environment.

Definitely not. >> I've applied I've applied at for like, you know, Amazon, I've applied for UPS, anything entry-level I've applied to. I

just cannot get hired. The one job offer I've gotten in the past 2 weeks of looking for a job was 100% commission-based for Verizon and, you know, um and I We need something stable right now. We don't need like a maybe I'll make money in 3 months. Is do you think that the reason you weren't able to get on at Amazon and and UPS in those places was it because of what might be on your record or do you just think I I just didn't get hired?

I I didn't even get a callback for an interview. Right. And I'm trying to what I'm trying to ascertain is do do we start do we need to start thinking about what are things you can do to create income on your own? And if that's the case, uh that puts me in a different headspace cuz I go, "Okay, service-oriented things that you could provide for other people that don't require that you can use public transportation to do." That's the headspace I'm kind of going in.

Um and some of that makes me think, "Man, I wonder if a suburban area would be better for you because then it's like, hey, I do yard work, I do lawn services." I If there's any sort of trade that you can do and become kind of a handyman, like I'm trying trying to think of things that you can do that don't require someone else to have to hire you and have to approve of you that you can just start today and start with what you have, but also navigate the transportation aspect of it.

I get that. The and I'm not a I'll do just about anything >> you will. Yeah. Get your bike off of Craigslist and start doing deliveries and courier services. There you go. I mean, weather's nicer in New York City right now, too, which is perfect. >> It's Yeah, I know, it's beautiful out today. I have $25 to my name. Yeah. So,

right now you're you're on fire right now. So, you're like, "Hey guys, Yeah, who So, I'm confused. Who was floating this 2750 rent?

Uh it's Yeah, it was like somebody who owns >> Cuz you never could have afforded this. Even making the 60, that was eating up all of your income.

It was eating up all my income. I was I was Yeah, my mom My mom gave me 700 bucks a month to help for the first 6 months of this lease, and she said this is all I can do. After this, you're done. And I graciously accepted it. That 6 months is up, and I've been, you know, I've been I've been biting the 2750, and, you know, living off of food stamps Have you gone back to the 12-step program to seek other employment?

If that's who gave you this job?

Why, yeah. I mean, I've been in I've been in the rooms, you know, pretty much begging for jobs, and, you know, it's It's also the beginning of the year, and, you know, not everyone is hiring like they are in, you know, late summer to, you know, getting in the holiday season. I've been I've tried that route, and, you know, I'm going to continue to do so. >> So, what's your landlord going to do when you don't make rent next month?

Well, that's I I have no clue, you know.

>> be letting him know the situation. I wouldn't wait until the day comes where he's knocking on your door going, "Where's the check?" I have a feeling I know the answer to this, but you're going to probably say do not put it on a credit card.

Absolutely not. And I would be looking your lease agreement and studying up on that to figure out how do you get out of this thing? Because there's probably going to be some penalties to break the lease, and if you don't pay, and if he It's going to be expensive and difficult to evict you. So, I'd just be honest with him and say, "Listen, man, here's where I'm at.

I can't pay this rent anymore. I'm I lost my job. I'm in recovery. Like, I can't do this. And you need to go, you know, maybe get a place with seven roommates." >> Mhm. Mhm. And it goes down to 700 bucks a month. What type of support system do you have?

I know obviously family helped you kind of get those first few months started, but I I'm I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and my mind is going is there some place that I can go back to and go, "Hey, I tried my hand out here. I I I need a couple months to get on my feet. I literally have $25 and I'm

trying to be responsible and not go into debt." Do you have is do you have a buddy? Do you have a family member that would would float you for a couple of weeks until you can get

a lawn mower basically? Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, financially everyone I know is tapped out, you know, I'm Well, I'm not saying I'm not saying ask them for money. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if I'm going to say what I'm thinking and then you put it in terms of your situation. I'd probably call up my sister and be like, "Farah, it's hard out here.

Like I made some like I thought I could come to New York, but here's where I'm at.

Could you give me like 2 weeks, 3 weeks at your house? Here's my plan. What I want to do is get some place a little bit more residential. Just get some place where I can start to offer services for people so I can make some really quick money. I'm thinking about doing things like washing windows and repairing people's decks and like right?

Tell them what your plan is because that's a lot more convincing to let to help somebody rather than I need money.

That's not going to work. And remember to cover your four walls first. Before you pay the credit card company, you got to cover food, shelter, utilities, transportation and get those down as cheaply as possible and if you can't pay the credit cards, you don't pay them. And you can contact Guardian Lit at guardianlit.com/ramsey to help with the settlement collection stuff if you do end up facing that. So sorry, man.

>> All right, guys. If you haven't heard, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today, we're going to break down the most asked question from the week, real estate. Hot topic. We're getting lots of questions about buying a house. So, the main question here, what are the most important factors to consider when buying a house? Love that.

Well, definitely financial readiness, right? You want to be completely debt-free. You don't want any non-mortgage debt, no credit cards, no car loans, nothing like that. And when you do that, it reduces your risk and allows you to actually be able to handle emergencies that pop up.

Obviously, we want you to have a fully funded emergency fund, 3 to 6 months of expenses. And we want to make sure that you can afford the mortgage payment and any ongoing maintenance costs. So, that's so important. We teach that 25% rule.

That's right. And then, the next piece is, naturally, how much house can you afford? Cuz the thing is, that mortgage lender will be like, "You guys can afford a million-dollar home." And you should be like, "No, we actually can't based on our real numbers." And so, your mortgage payment, including the principal, the interest, the property taxes, the homeowner's insurance, the HOA fees, even private mortgage insurance, that PMI if applicable, should be no more than 25% of your after-tax monthly income. So, that's after taxes, but before all the other deductions like your 401k, your healthcare.

So, that'll help uh bolster that 25% number. And here's the thing, you you know, it's not a sin to go 26% or 30%, but here's the problem. We get calls where it's 50% and these people are drowning asking if they should sell their home. And so, we just don't want you to be house poor.

It's not about following strict rules. And using a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage and avoiding 30-year loans, adjustable-rate mortgages, FHA loans if possible. That's the way to go. >> Yeah, and not only that, but even saving for your down payment, which is a big hot-button topic now.

You know, you want to aim for at least 10% down. If you do 20%, of course, you're going to avoid PMI, but the truth is, for a lot of us today, you're going to have to put a lot more than that down in order to reach the 25% rule that George was just explaining. So, really hop on there and use our our mortgage calculator to figure out exactly how much you need to put down so the payment is right, because at the end of the day, you don't want to be using any of your emergency funds for this.

You should have separate savings, and you should also be able to put the right amount down.

And then the mortgage process, you got to get pre-approved before you start house hunting, and that shows sellers that you're a serious buyer. This will help when it comes to offers when you're, you know, in the mix there.

And it helps you shop within your means. So, choose a reputable lender who will prioritize your financial well-being instead of just try to throw the biggest mortgage they can at you. And our friends at Churchill Mortgage, they've helped so many people buy a home the Ramsey way. And if you want to know if you're ready to buy, how much house you can afford, how much you need to save, all that, Ask Ramsey, our free AI tool can personalize those answers for your situation.

So, that's a great thing. You can go back and forth, have a conversation, save the chat if you log in. So, head to ramseysolutions.com and try it for yourself. You can also click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube.

in Detroit, Michigan up next. What's going on?

Hi. Um, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. >> I am I Sorry, I am calling today because I

wanted to get some advice about how to set my son up for success in his future.

Um, so, a little bit of background, I am 27. I am a PhD student at the University

of Michigan, and I have a 1 and 1/2 year old, and I've been trying to save money for him and figure out the best way to set him up for a future because I have come from a very poor household, have been homeless several times, and I really would not want that for him. Wow.

>> Wow. Yeah, I mean, um kudos to you for

making this all work. Um I would be very focused on

m- and this is going to sound kind of um opposite of what you said, but with a 1-year-old, the best thing you can do for for him is to make sure you're doing and being the best person you can be.

So, what does that look like for you financially? Making sure you're out of debt, making sure you're able to pour into him uh financially and help with college, making sure you're setting yourself up in such a way that it's so healthy with you that all that health gets onto him.

Does that make sense?

Yes. And so, that my that leads me to my next question, which is how are you doing financially? Like, are you paying off debt? Like, where are you in this whole thing?

So, um my husband and I, we make just north of

90,000 a year.

Um I don't have any student loans or credit card loans. I actually had a free ride to school, and my PhD was paid for by the school. Nice. Um the only debt that we do have is we do have two car loans. Our cars took a crap for lack of better words, and so we do have two car loans, but that's the only debt that we have. What do those car loans add up to? What's the Give me both balances.

So, my car is at 18,000, and his car is

at 21.

Okay. >> Okay. And what are the monthly payments on that?

Um one is $381 a month, and the other one is $481.

So, when I see that number, all I see is

future investing. That's $860 that could

be invested if we got rid of this debt.

You see what we're doing here?

Yes. Can I show you what $860 would be if you invested it from the your when your child turns 2 to 18?

Sure. You ready to blow your mind?

$400,000. >> Um Yeah, exactly. So, it's going to be a lot. >> Hope you like the car.

Yes. Yes. So, you're asking us how do I save for my kids college? It's getting rid of your debt so that you free up that money cuz right now do you have $860 extra to invest?

I mean, not if we're paying car loans.

Exactly. And the thing is for most Americans, I mean, we're not trying to single you out. Most Americans, this is the this is the cycle. It is a revolving door.

I drive this car for a while, it gets old, something happens, I trade it in for another car, and I have another car payment. Drive that for a while, something happens, I trade it in and I have and I have a car payment for their entire life. >> it. How can you save up for a car when you've got the car payment taking up what you would have saved.

So, eventually you have to break the cycle and drive the crappy car while saving up for a car, you know, that you really want, the upgrade car that you do in cash. So, I mean, you got 40 grand in vehicles making 90. That's that is up there. >> yeah.

So, my PhD gives me a stipend. So, I'm paid through the school as well. So, that's half of our income and then my husband makes the other half. Okay. So, now the question is how do we up both of your incomes? When is your PhD done and what will you be making?

So, I have 2 more years left.

Um and it depends on what I go into. I'm not entirely sure. It's estimated to be just north of 100,000.

Um but it really depends on like where you work, what company, and what city that you're in. And I I don't I can't really make those decisions quite yet.

>> Sure. And what about him? What's he doing?

So, he's a medical technician. He 3D prints um surgical implants. Okay. So,

I'd be the way I'd put it in our brains if I sat down tonight and was talking with my husband about this very thing, I'd say, "If we can't If we can't commit

to getting these cars paid off in 18 months or less, I think that we should consider selling one of them." That That would be my kind of thing to bring to the table. And that way you're saying, "Hey, we we know that there's a level of urgency here, but we're also allowing space for us to keep these vehicles if we really want to work hard to keep them." But what I wouldn't do is try to do all of this at once. Try to invest, try to pay off the debt.

Okay. And you're probably going, "Wait, money left over?" That's what happens when you're debt-free. And you're You guys will be making north of six figures. So, I'm not as worried about Junior. I'm more worried about the present you. Right.

>> Cuz even if you start investing at when he's 4 years old to 18, yeah, you'll have to invest a little more to make up for some lost time and compound growth.

But I mean, even let's say 4 years old to 18, if you invest 500 bucks a month, he'll have 181 grand. That's at a 10% return over those 14 years. And that's assuming he gets no scholarships and he just got to pay that. And then on top of that, think about how much more money you guys will be making 14 years from now, 15 years from now.

>> And so, you'll be able to cash flow. He might get scholarships and grants. He can work part-time. There's a lot of things that he can do to avoid student debt. But all of this is uh predicated on you guys creating a financial foundation for yourselves. Yeah. So, the moral of the story, not just for um you, Cara, but for anybody listening, the way that we love our family well, whether it's our kids or thinking about the future, is we

have to have our personal financial life in order. How many calls do we get, George, where it's my parents didn't do

what they were supposed to do? So, now I'm 40 years old and I'm having to pay for kids college plus their care and do all this. If you can decide today, you know what? I want to break that cycle.

I want my kids to be set up. It starts with you. It's not in the DNA. You can break the cycle.

And so, it is possible and the account to invest in is a 529 plan for education or you can do an education savings account.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Free call at 888-825-5225.

Ken is in Tallahassee up next. What's going on, Ken? Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's your question? So, I'm looking for some guidance. Um my wife and I, we had left our jobs uh about 2 years ago and we both opened um two businesses. Uh both of which have done pretty well.

Over the past 2 years, we've really aggressively attacked all of our debt except our mortgage and one investment property. Good. >> Um now we're at the point where we're trying to determine if we should go ahead and pay off the investment property that we purchased which has an interest rate of 5.99.

We owe about 223,000 on it.

Or should we start aggressively uh contributing towards retirement accounts, 401k, whatever we can do to set ourselves up for retirement. Okay. Are you currently investing 15% into retirement every month?

We have not started anything for retirement whatsoever. Okay. Do you have the three to six months of expenses saved?

We have $82,000 saved right now, yes.

Okay, and that's Okay, and how many months of savings is that?

Uh how many months? >> Mhm. Well, we make about $360,000 a year combined that.

Okay. And is that is that a side

uh that's personal money like for your personal life, that's not your business savings account and retained earnings, right? >> that's our that's our personal money, yes. That's what we netted. Okay. So, I

would just walk this through the baby steps, which is it sounds like you've kind of already done.

Uh and just to recap for anybody listening, baby step one you're getting a $1,000 saved, baby step two it sounds like you've done, you pay off all of your debt except the mortgage, and then baby step three you save up three to six months of expenses, you've done that.

Then baby step four is you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month. And once you're doing that, it's kind of like that's the set it and forget it. I know that that portion of retirement's going to be taken care of.

Now I can look up and do things like if you want to put a little aside for kids college, uh if you want to pay extra mortgage payments, right? Some of the things that you're talking about. So, as long as you're doing the 15%, I would invest in paying off some of this real estate. However, um I would be looking at what's the best way for your primary mortgage to be debt free quickest.

What's left on that? That's my biggest question because our mortgage payment on our homestead's $2,200 a month. Our interest rate is super low.

So, my question there would be do we pay aggressively towards the investment property which has a 5.99 rate? What's the balance of your current mortgage?

Yeah, what's the balance of the homestead?

Um about $323,000.

So, since that's where your bodies lay down to sleep every night, that's what that's the equation I want to solve for is how can we make that debt-free first?

Because and my my my thought for that is

no matter what the situation, whenever people have an emergency, a hard time, whether somebody's laid off, whether there's a diagnosis, the number one people thing that people want the number one thing people care about is I want to keep my house. I don't want anything to come between me and keeping my house, right? So, Sure. that's why that's the first thing I'm like, how can we make that debt-free?

>> you could sell the investment property. >> Yes. I don't want you to have to sell your home to do that because of the mortgage payment. So, I'm I'm not concerned about interest rates, Ken.

You guys make so much money that it's negligible.

what $54,000, 4,500 a month. And so,

even though you're starting from zero, I'll give you the math here on our investment calculator. You can jump on our website and use it. We'll drop a link in the description for this. But from 38 to 65, you guys invest 4,500 a month, you never make more than 360 at 10% return on average, you'll have 7.4 million.

Okay, so when you when you say invest, are you referring to like a brokerage and index funds and all that or >> This is any type of investment account that utilizes compound growth. And so, this could be retirement. I would do retirement accounts. So, the way we look at it is there's a kind of a water flow approach. If you have an employer match, we're going to go there first. Then we're going to take all the Roth accounts we can get.

Now, with your income being so high, you may want to utilize traditional. Yeah.

Since you own your businesses, yeah, so >> So, you could do solo 401ks. Are there employees in the business or is it just you guys? Uh I My business is a solo. I'm the only owner and then my wife and I's business is me and her and one other employee.

Okay. Mhm. I would for yours it's easier

to set up. For hers I would probably work with somebody to make sure you're structuring it the right way. But yeah that's I would start that immediately.

That's your that's your project for next week. And then Yeah right now you just haven't been because you just don't know. And you guys are super smart people, very successful and it's pretty easy to know. And there's pro guidance that I would suggest you can jump on ramseysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro.

They'll dig into your situation and help you decide hey for your situation for your wife she should do a SEP IRA for her business and you should do a solo 401k for example. And that will allow you you can actually put in way more into a solo 401k because you're do you're the employee and the employer. >> That's right. So you can contribute on both sides and really make some headway to start investing.

And I would just work on extra mortgage payments outside of that.

Uh we have three total. Two are grown, the youngest is 11. Okay. So I'd be putting some money away for college.

I mean hopefully you guys will be able to cash flow the rest but a 529 plan would be a great place to sock away extra money and just kind of set a goal for that. Again the SmartVestor Pro can help you set that goal from 11 to 18 we want to have you know six figures in this account by then. You might be able to kind of super fund it just in the next year and then set it and forget it.

So don't even worry about the investment property? Well I wanted to ask about that. I mean how married are you to it because my mind immediately goes to what's this thing worth because if I can pull It's a long term rental. It pays for itself.

I understand that but I would rent that out and go okay it might pay for itself.

would you want to sink it back into real estate that maybe you're just breaking even on month to month. >> No, we have we have some equity. I just don't think it's it's it's a ton, so.

Okay, what are you actually making off of this thing per year after all of your expenses? It's about 600 a month after expenses.

Man, that's not much compared to your whole income. >> I know. No. What's it worth?

>> of a more of an investment to have later on and you know, I guess, so. Are you guys going to live there one day?

No. No, I guess something that we would just have on the side and sell later on that >> I mean, it's less than 2% of your household income. So, you got to ask yourself, is it more than 2% of the headaches in my life?

Maybe. What do you what's it worth if you did sell it? I'm just curious.

What do you what would it bring? >> Um 275 maybe.

>> Okay, so not a whole lot.

>> 280. No.

Yeah, you know, it would be something I'd continue to watch it and if it starts going up in value and it's it becomes enticing to you and it does make sense to maybe offload that in order to free up the homestead, I would definitely do that deal when it's time.

Thanks for the call, Ken. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com. Click on SmartVestor Pro and they'll help you craft a plan for all of this cuz you guys make so much money, let's put it to good use.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Breeze in Santa Barbara up next. What's going on, Bree?

Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can Jade and I help?

Hey, I'm calling because um I am a

32-year-old single mom and I work as a teacher and I live in a pretty expensive area um of California and I'm feeling

really good actually about where I'm at financially, especially considering I had many years of being very low income and I guess I'm kind of at a point where I'm not really sure what I'm saving for.

I I put away money every month um towards savings and I have been since I started my first day as a teacher, um every year increasing the amount that I put. Um and I just I have about $60,000

saved up Wow.

>> you know, continuing to save every month and I also am really careful with my budget and how I spend my money and I guess I kind of am not really sure why I'm doing it and I guess I want to understand what amount of money should I be putting towards saving versus allowing myself to live a little bit of a more enjoyable life financially on a day-to-day. I I love this question because I think that anybody who's really had to scrap to get to where they are, you do you get in the mindset of like I just it's like a robot.

I take the money, I put it over here, and I don't even question And then it feels like you've done something bad if you don't do that or if you spend it, you feel guilty.

Uh no. I other than my mortgage, my home. >> Great. So good. You've got a mortgage and you've got 60K. That's just all of your savings. Does that include your emergency fund? It's all wrapped up in there? Yeah. Yeah, I mean I've got about like 6,000 in the bank, I guess, but >> Okay. That's kind of your checking account money. Have you started investing yet?

What's that? Have you started investing?

Oh, yeah. That's in an investment account. Oh, okay. So, it's it's not as

liquid. It's not sitting in a high-yield savings or anything. So, how much do you have in a high-yield savings account or in a savings account that's liquid? >> a high-yield savings account. It's all in like a brokerage account.

>> Oh, that scares me a little bit cuz if you had an emergency, you'd have to just sell that off no matter what's going on the market.

I would, but it also like I have I have

other sources. Like I could talk to my parents, I could talk to family members if I needed to. Let's Let's fix that.

Let's fix that. I think I heard you say that you're a teacher, right?

I am. How come you're not investing through your work into a 401K? Cuz usually there's an automatic kind of amount that goes Yeah. >> No, there's there's nothing that I'm aware of at least through my job that I can invest Is this a normal school system? I've just never heard of a school system that doesn't have a retirement plan. Uh double check that for me.

>> plan. It's separate, though. So, I don't even know what's in my retirement plan because I don't consider that savings. I consider that just my retirement.

>> Okay, so let's let's let's help you with that. So, that what you have, that retirement plan is awesome. And that's the number one way people build wealth is through their employer-sponsored retirement account, okay? So, if you have a 403b, which it sounds like you do, my guess is there's a percentage of your income that's automatically going into that as a teacher, am I wrong?

No, you're correct. I don't know if it's called a 403b. Um, it's but it is like a teacher retirement account. In California, I think it's a little different. >> how much goes into that every month?

Right now, it's $600 a month, but it also increases every year as I earn more. Okay, so the goal that we want to get to is for you to be investing a total of 15% of your gross income. So, the math that you can do tonight is to say, "Okay, that 600, what percentage of my gross income is that?" So, let's say it's 10%, and then you go, "Okay, I need to add X amount of dollars in order to get this to 15." That's thing one. Once you're doing that, it's like, "Okay, I can set that and forget it.

I know that if I continue to do this, when the day of my retirement comes, I'm going to be set." And a way to really feel good about that is to go on the Ramsey Investment Calculator and just plug in your numbers and say, "Okay, today I'm 32.

this $600 or however much you increase it towards, here's what I'll retire with." That's going to make you feel amazing. And then it's going to free you up to be able to spend money in other ways when the time comes. What's really on fire for me today is the fact that you don't have liquid money in a HS in a high-yield savings account. Um, and that

needs to probably happen immediately.

Um, so I probably told you that a little bit out of order, but I wanted you to understand that you did have employer-sponsored retirement at your disposal. Yeah, and with the high-yield savings account, how much do you recommend putting in that? Three to six months of expenses. Uh, you're a single mom, and so I'd feel better if you had six months, as close as six months as possible.

And you have that now in that brokerage account, so I would just sell off that much and be aware if there's any capital gains taxes on that, but take that out, put it in a high yield savings account, and then keep it liquid. I know it's not making as much as you could be in the market, but it's not to be invested. It is insurance against you having to go into debt ever again. So, you'll feel a whole lot better having that liquid at the ready.

My son is 12. I do put money towards his college fund every month. I have I think like 12,000 or so saved up at this point. I don't aggressively put money into it.

So, that's in addition to the 60,000 I have in investments.

>> Right. So, you may want to make a goal to put a little more in there, and you can use an investment calculator figure out, "Hey, here's how much an in-state public school would be in this area if they choose to go there." And try your best to get there. You don't have to cash flow the whole thing. That's not your obligation, but it'll help them avoid student loan debt, which is a huge crisis in America today.

So, that's one goal for your money is to put more towards college. You can always put more toward the mortgage, and then of course, budget a little more. >> such a low interest rate though. Like I was able to buy about 5 years ago, and so my interest is 2.63.

And so, it feels like if I had the option between investing, I would just get a lot more return for my money if I was to put it in an investment account rather than pay the mortgage off early. That's true, but you have to think about where you'd want to be when the day comes and you can no longer work. Because if you continue to let your 403b through your teaching continue to grow and accumulate, like I said, do that homework tonight because it's going to change your mindset. Because the time is going to come when you can't work anymore, and you're going to look up and you're going to go, "Man, I don't want to be paying my mortgage out of my retirement every single month.

It'd be so great to maybe have a slightly smaller nest egg, which it probably, you know, it will be negligible, and also have a paid off mortgage." Does that make sense? >> Okay.

About 75,000.

Okay. >> And I I put away about 700 per month in

into investment accounts. And then the rest I use for expenses. I

I mean, I live like a decent life, you know, it's not like I'm penny pinching at every corner, but I also, you know, there's extras that I choose not to do because it wouldn't, you know, stay within my budget. >> you want to do?

If I snap my fingers I want to hire somebody to deep clean my house once a month. Love it.

>> Because uh like I just won't do it and I want it done. >> What does that cost you in California?

It's It's probably a couple hundred bucks. Okay, say 250. So, you can in, you know, set up an every dollar budget, use the app and just put line item house cleaning 250.

Okay. That's it. And you guys think if I do all these calculations and I make

sure I got my 15% like you think it's okay to get Yes.

Yes. I wouldn't be investing in the brokerage account at this point. That is sort of like a baby step seven, house is paid off, I've run out of other investment options. You're going to be fine.

You're so young doing so well that I would be more focused on making sure I'm investing 15% to retirement, making sure my kids college is covered, making sure the mortgage gets paid off, and then if I allow some spending money for Bree, you've earned it.

every month. I think you said you were at six or seven. So, bump that up to the right amount, like I said, somewhere between 900 dollars and 930 dollars. And then from there on, if you're doing all those things that George talked about, you're you're in your baby step, you're letting you're doing those things correctly, 100%.

The whole purpose of doing this is so that you can enjoy your money and so that you can spend. It is live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. And for you, it's simple things like having a house cleaner. So, as long as it fits in the budget and it's not causing you to have to pull from investments, it's not causing you to have to forsake your kids college fund, it's not causing you to have to, you know, have have no money ever to put extra on your mortgage, right?

Then it's fine. It's good.

Thank you. >> it, Brandy. >> much, guys. Thank you for the call.

You're a hero. That's very impressive what you're doing. 32, single mom, Yeah.

>> debt-free, in California nonetheless.

>> Right. And I love that she rode out the storm of starting out low income and really pushing and pushing to get to where she is now. That is so gratifying.

I'm so proud of her.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

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It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

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May not be available in all states. Alrighty, today's question comes from Ian in Wisconsin. He says, "Is it okay to use buy now pay later plans as long as you have the cash available to buy the item to buy the item outright? I'm making a large purchase and have cash to pay for it today, but I want to put it on payments to soften the blow to my I love this guy. I want to put it on payments to soften the blow to my bank account. I've

already got the payments worked out into my every dollar budget, so I don't see why this isn't a legitimate reason for using the method. Okay, this is wild,

but I I I want to kind of validate what you're thinking. I think all of us feel the pain of seeing a nice cushy number

in our bank account and then we decide we want to do a major purchase like a car or a golf cart or whatever and the feeling of seeing I don't know a balance of $40,000 go down to $5,000 is like

it's like shot to the heart, okay? Yes, validating that. However, the whole purpose of managing your money well is to be able to pay cash in actual money for the things that you want.

uh this is really not that much." And it goes little by little by little, and then it opens up the door to, "Oh, this is kind of nice. I'm only paying >> put it on my tab. And you go, "Well, it's only four bucks here, five bucks there, 10 bucks here." And then it becomes a habit where you go, "Well, if I needed to, I could pay it all off today." And then you lose your job.

>> Well, then you try it with something else. You go, "Oh, that kind of felt nice. Now I'm going to get this guitar >> Now you're doing an appliance. And now you're no better than the guy doing, you know, 0% financing on a freaking couch at Ashley Furniture.

So, >> worse and worse. >> And this is just it's broke people mentality, and the truth is if it softens the blow to your bank account, that means you probably just shouldn't buy it. If it like hurts your soul a little bit to part with that much money, that's your brain and body telling you, "Hey, this is a lot of money. Are we sure we want to do this?" And what buy now pay later really does, it just desensitizes your brain to go, "Ah, it's fine, bud." It's like a little devil on your shoulder going, "Put it on four payments, guy.

You got it. You deserve it. You worked hard. I think you worked too hard to be this broke playing broke people games." Yeah, that that is so good, George.

And these are such predatory companies.

They're praying that you can't make the payment so they can ding you with fees and interest. They're no better than the credit card companies out there, and their marketing touts it like, "We are the best alternative to credit cards.

We're here to be your savior." You know what I think is going on here? This just hit me. This is what I think. I think that he probably has a lump sum of money saved, and it's probably earmarked for something else.

But he has this big purchase that he wants to make, and he's like, "Well, I could do it on buy now pay later because of the truth is if something happened, I could pay for it, but if the ear if the money wasn't earmarked for that, then that's probably why it doesn't feel good." I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know if I'm right, but that's the sense that I'm getting. Yeah. The the bottom line is you can't build for the future while paying for the past.

So, if If got anything behind you in the rearview mirror, what are you doing? You're just wasting brain calories thinking about the payments you There's enough things to worry about in this life. Debt is not one of them. And that's all it is.

It's a micro debt is what you're signing up for. And if you read the fine print, they'll tell you. All righty, and thanks for the question.

Rant over. JR is in Atlanta. Up next, what's going on, JR?

Hey, George and Jade. I was just calling cuz me and my wife just built a house and we moved in at Christmas time.

And we love the house. We don't like the

lifestyle that the payment is going to make us live. >> Oh, no.

Well, our priorities changed from the time we started the process to now. Like my wife works. She runs her own business and I got in moved into the house and I just realized I want my wife to be able to stay at home with our kids.

>> Oh, no.

Based on our current payment, I I on my own job could not pay for the payment without her continuing to work.

So, I'm wondering what we should do next to kind of mitigate that risk or I mean, we are willing to live with the consequences that we have made for ourselves, but we'd like an option there. >> if she's it on your income,

you can't stay in that house.

Well, sorry. She would obviously have to continue to work and we're okay with her continuing to work if we have to, but if we have an option to do something else, I would love an outside opinion. Okay. I'll pitch that question back to you. So, you tell me tell me what your mortgage is every single month.

With the escrow, it's around $2,500 a month. $2,500. Okay. And if you if your

wife stopped working, what percentage of your take home would that mortgage become? About 50%. Okay. So, and then you've

told me, "Hey, also, not only would it be 50%, but I just wouldn't even be able to cover the payment at all." So, you tell me what the option is.

Um I think either we're going to have to let her continue to work and pay down the house and possibly refinance or I get a better paying job or we move. I think those are really the only three options. I just None of them are great. >> Yes. Okay, I just wanted you to say it so that I wasn't the bad guy. Right.

Right. And the truth is you finding more work uh that that's the thing that maybe allows you to kind of have the best of both worlds here. How likely is that to happen?

Um with my current career uh it's probably not very likely.

Uh I'm working on getting a CPA's license. So, when I finish that, I should probably could make it more realistic um to cover all of our bills and the mortgage, but in my current career field, it's pretty unlikely.

What's the timeline on the CPA deal?

Um probably about a year. Uh I can sit for my first exams this summer.

And will you be making six figures right out the gate?

Um where I live, CPAs are starting

between 70 and 80.

Okay, so that still won't get us there.

I mean that Well, we need like a take-home pay more like you know, 9 10 grand to make this make sense for you guys to carry this mortgage payment for the next decade.

Right. So, then the other option is if we can't get the income up, then we might need to move once your wife decides to stay home.

Right. So, I don't think anything's like on fire, but if you know, do you guys have kids now?

Yes, we have uh we have two very small children. Okay. Is there more on the way or is this it? Uh we would love to have some more, but we've kind of pushed pause on that until we can get our financials in order.

Okay. What's the house worth?

Uh we had it uh a real estate agent come and look. It was worth about 475. And you owe how much?

Uh a little over 300. Okay. So, you do have good equity in there. There's some good news in this picture. There's also the idea of her working part-time. Maybe it's not an all or nothing thing, but it's I pick up these extra hours, you

become the CPA. Do you see what I'm saying? Maybe it's the combination and we kind of go, "Hey, there's a year horizon on this. For the next year, you

you work and it's not ideal, but then once I can get into my CPA role, you can back down to part-time and that should close the gap and then I can continue to grow my income and fully step away." There might be kind of like a a very gradual transition that you can do. Okay. That makes good sense. That that uh Yes, that very That could be a good idea. Do you guys have debt outside of the mortgage?

Um, we owe about 8,000 to the IRS, but other than that, we are debt-free. Okay.

And what's your wife making in the business? Um, after taxes, she's probably doing between 130 and 150. Whoa. So, she's the

breadwinner here.

Yes. Okay. But, she's the one who wants to stay home. That's her dream?

Um, I would love for her to stay home. I think she could she wants to be home more, but I think uh she would be okay with working part-time. I would love for her to have the option to not work at all. It sounds like part-time is the move then because she said her wish seems to be like, "I don't want to be totally out, but I do want to be home more." That feels like the ticket because what you don't want is to tell somebody who wants to work a little bit that they can't work cuz then they're going to feel trapped.

It's the same It can go either way. You also don't want to tell somebody who wants to stay home, "Hey, you got to go to work." cuz then they're going to feel trapped there. So, I think that you guys still have some um conversations to have around this and you have time. Um, I would just set a timeline of like, "Hey, let's revisit this 6 months, a year from now and see where we're at.

Is it feasible for you to go part-time? Can you just stop working altogether based on what I'm making as a CPA now?" And I hope I really hope you guys get the dream of first thing home and you get to keep the house.

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All right, Jade. It's time for our scripture of the day. You know it. Sing it with me. This one comes from Ecclesiastes 7:12. The protection of wisdom is like the protection of money and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it. Wow, I might need to read that again. Well, okay. Wow, yeah. >> it on my own time. Yeah, that'll take me a while to chew on.

Old Solomon there is long in the tooth.

A. A. Latimer said, "A budget is a mathematical confirmation of your suspicions." I love that so much.

>> I wish I had one of those names. You know what I mean? Like A. A. Latimer, G. K. Chesterton. I I call you G. K. Yeah,

I think G.K. But then you got to have a nice long cool name at the >> middle name? It's Peter. It's not that exciting.

Yeah, exactly.

G.P. Camel, that's not >> to say. Does it roll off the tongue? >> No one's written that guy's novel. G.P. Camel >> I'll work on it. I'll workshop it. All right, Michelle is in Springfield, Illinois. What's going on, Michelle?

Hey guys. Hey.

I am calling to find out about retirement.

Um how to when when the time comes, how

does that work when you withdraw, you

guys say 10% if you can live off of 10%?

How do you do that? Is it you withdraw

like the 10% and then

um hold back taxes or do you withdraw like 90% and leave the taxes in there pull it out when it's time to pay? Oh boy. So, let's roll back when >> it up, Terry. Let's go here to uh your age. What's your current age?

56 Okay, and you're talking about like 59 and 1/2 plus is when you're going to be pulling from retirement? >> Okay. What kind of retirement accounts do you have right now?

Uh just my 401k. Is it traditional or

Roth 401k? Traditional cuz I I when we

got a Roth one, I felt it was too late to change it over. Mhm. Okay. So, the

only retirement account you have is the traditional 401k?

Yeah, other than the kids' 529, uh

grandkids' 529. Okay. How much is in there? Uh in which one? The 401k, the traditional 401k.

>> Okay, and you're wanting to So, let me

let me roll back to what you first said, which is you guys say, you know, if you have have 10% that you're earning you can live off the interest. That really is a rule of thumb to kind of be thinking about do I have enough to retire? It's not precise.

>> It's not prescriptive to say you should withdraw 10% every month. >> No, it's just a way to think, "Hey, how do I kind of know that I'm in the realm that I might be ready and might have enough?" So, I want to be clear on that.

It's And I want to know if you're working with a Smart Investor Pro at all, or are you just doing this all yourself? >> newly. Um I actually go and do my 1-year

check at the end of April. Okay.

Um what I would do is I would at the next meeting, I would say how much do you think that I need to and

that I'm able to pull from this 401k to maintain my current lifestyle? And what I would do is I would come to that appointment with my current budget.

And I would say, "Here's what I'm spending every single month.

And here's what I receive, you know, or will receive from Social Security." And have all those numbers and then start projecting what would it look like for me to pull X amount of dollars, how much taxes would that be for me every year, and just ask how how

how we're going to do that and what that's going to look like so that you can begin to understand it and see if you agree or not with that strategy.

>> Okay. And they can project this all out to show you, "Hey, if you withdrew, let's say, $60,000 total per year in retirement based on what you have in the nest egg, here's likely where you'd end up. Here's when the money might run out, or here's how much you might have left over." And they can run all kinds of projections to give you a a big picture cuz the truth is we don't know what the future holds. We just know what history has shown us, which is that the stock market on average produced about 10-11%.

So, based on that, you got to take into account inflation, and then you got to take into account your actual expenses versus what your nest egg is. So, how much are you investing per month right now? Uh 15%. Of

what's the total number?

Um it's like What's your income?

>> 981 a month, I think. Okay. And you do you have an employer match?

Uh, yes. Okay, so how much extra is that on top of the 981?

Um, it's 3%.

Um Let's call it another 100 200 bucks.

>> so sorry. That's okay. I'm just guestimating for you. You and you said you had 250,000 in retirement? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so if you can keep contributing that 1,100 in there from let's 56 to let's say 65, is that your game plan? >> Mhm. Yeah, or more. Okay. Let's put it 67.

That puts you at a million bucks in that nest egg. And that's with a 10% return.

So then the question becomes, all right, from 67, let's say you live a good long life to 97. We got 30 years to utilize

this million bucks plus social security.

And so they can then help you map out a plan for withdrawal. Obviously, you don't need to do that right now. We don't know what the future holds, but I would just keep I'd rather have too much than not enough. You know what I mean? Sure. Keep bumping it up as much as you can. So hopefully, you get your income up over time, you get the house paid off, then we increase and start maxing out these accounts, and you'll have well over a million plus social security.

That should give you a nice comfortable life. So thank you for the call. It's a great question. >> way to think about it. >> You're on the path to become a Baby Steps Millionaire. Eliana is in Chicago.

What's going on with you?

Yes, hi. Um So I have I have a $11,000 in stock.

I have 4,000 cash.

I also have a 2006 Chevy.

And I have to like four options to use the money. An eight and $8,000 credit card debt with no interest

until September. Okay.

So my question is, where to spend it? I

have four options. One, my home is a

1940 house, so I don't have AC. I have

window, which cost me a lot of money during the summer. I have the old-fashioned heat, but cost me a lot of gas.

My estimate to install a AC with heating

and plumbing was $10,000.

The quote. Okay. And then um my kids were invited by their grandparents to

our homeland, which cost around $10,000,

and they're going to pay for their tickets, but I have to be with them. So, that would set me back at least $4,000.

Just cost on tickets. Okay. So, you could do Okay.

>> I also I think I need a new car, and I

got a really nice deal.

Um but the car is going to cost me $16,000 that I don't have. So, I'm thinking of not paying the whole credit card. And it's the car cuz it's estimated for $24,000.

And It's not a deal if you can't afford it, though.

What What's the deal with >> And I can't even afford the insurance for the car, too. >> And you can't do that. >> not an option. What's the deal with your current car? You said you had a car. Is it Do you owe anything on it? Is it worth something? Tell us about the current car. Last Yeah, last year I

returned my Jeep Wrangler because um it was lease to own, and it

would it had a lot of recalls, and I couldn't uh pay the um maintenance $1,000 a year. I couldn't pay that. So, I got a 2006 Chevy, and it's fine,

but because it's approaching 200,000 mi, and my work is to go with therapist house to house, I'm afraid it's going to break down, and I'll need a new car. Has it broken down?

No. Okay. >> I maintain it. So, we're justifying a new car purchase based on the fact that once a car goes over 200,000 miles, they apparently die no matter what.

Or it's going to start breaking down.

And I don't want to buy a car out of need. Well, let's deal with our current problems versus the future ones that could and might happen. The current problem is we got 8,000 credit card debt that we can pay off today by selling off the stocks, right?

Yes. So you got 15K total liquid. Paying off the credit card brings us down to 7,000, right?

Yes. And now the question is what's the priority? You having AC as we enter the summer or going on a trip that you could go on at another time.

I could go on another time, but it's going to cost me an extra $10,000. And I don't even care for the trip, but my Is it because the kids won't be covered?

I would just tell them, "Hey, I can't afford to go on the trip because I have to go with them. I have to cover my share. I'm in a pickle here. I don't have AC. My car is on the fritz. I got credit card debt." And that's it. And so you prioritize the things that matter to your family right now the most, which is getting out of debt. Let's get the AC.

Let's get an emergency fund so that we get out of this cycle. That is the only path I would recommend out. Right now a trip is a luxury that you don't have, Eliana. Thank you for the call.

All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 17. Break The Debt Spiral And Regain Your Life | March 11, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host George Kamel, number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, [music] co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. She's my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

[clears throat] Elizabeth is in Seattle. Hi Elizabeth, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question about debt transfer cards. I've been following you for years and I know you always say don't do it, but I'm kind of at a loss. I don't really know where to go because we're drowning and can't make even our minimums because we have kind of a lot of debt. >> How much debt >> And two of our principals, we have 15,000 in credit cards.

>> How much other debt do you have?

>> Um, I'd say probably uh 13, just under 13 for our car and 35 for our school.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Around 3,500.

>> Okay. You don't have a credit card problem, you have an income problem.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Why do you make 3 Who Who makes 3,500 and doing what? >> Between the the two of us, my husband and I, we both lost our jobs about a year ago, so we DoorDash, uh Spark Drive, and um substitute teach.

We're both also applying for more consistent jobs with uh consistent income. >> Yeah. You don't need to apply for these jobs, you need to get a job.

It's been a year. DoorDash does not support a family.

>> No. >> What were you guys doing before?

>> My husband worked as a CEO for a realtor

company and I worked in the ministry but my church closed down and I lost my job right as we had our child the same month

that he was born and then 3 months later my husband got fired from his job.

So very deep dive.

>> Yeah. >> We were making over 6,000 together at that point. >> Yeah, okay.

All right, that's where we concentrate on not trying to find some trick to cause $15,000 in credit card debt to go away. $15,000 will cause that to go away. That's what fixes it and so we need to go get $15,000 and that is about income

is what that's what's occurring to me as I'm talking to you. So um I think if I if I were you guys I would step back from the debt issue and step

forward into the career crisis.

And say both of us have got to land something immediately that is a substantial real job. Why did your husband get fired?

>> Uh they wanted to cut [clears throat] budget costs and they hired a like a management company rather than paying a CEO. >> Okay. All right.

And how large a company was he the CEO of? How many people were working there?

>> Um it was only him and one office staff but they serviced I think 50 realtors.

>> Mhm.

Okay and so he was doing administrative work for the real estate company.

>> Yeah. >> really more than a not not I mean the CEO is not really a proper title. I mean it's the title they gave him but I mean he's not running a huge organization or he's not running an organization even with 40 people because the real estate agents all work for themselves. They're just running helter-skelter and he's just trying to keep the thing he's hurting cats.

So okay. >> Literally. >> so what what would what was he doing before that?

>> And before that he worked for uh another real estate company as a project manager. Um then that role ended. They wanted to keep him on, but there wasn't It was for a specific project and it ended, so it >> Mhm. So, it sounds like he knows the real estate business and I'm wondering if there's some place in the real estate business that he lands and gets out of the DoorDash.

>> He He does >> real estate with the DoorDash part-time.

>> job. >> I'm sorry, say it again. >> Yeah. He is in the final process. He has an interview tomorrow for the final process of a job that he's getting, but it's half of what he was making, so we will still have to DoorDash, but it's a job.

It's something.

>> What will he be making?

>> Uh 60. >> Okay. >> He's making >> That's an upgrade. >> making >> Yeah, okay. That's a good start and then and then you've got to land something that you can do with a child and um with

a new baby and so forth that you can do from home and or work arounds of some kind, but Elizabeth, the deal is this, the $15,000 in credit card is very easily overcome once you guys get your income back to where it used to be.

>> Yeah. >> And then you just live on nothing. You don't go out to eat and you attack these credit cards with a vengeance cuz you remember how pissed off you were and how stressed off stressed out you were and you get rid of them, right? You can do that, but you can't do it on 3,500

uh you can, but it'll take forever.

Um and 3,500 is is really not It's It's not really [clears throat] not your world. It's just the world you found yourself in after a couple of uh tragic career situations. And now you

land back into good stuff and you look back in the rearview mirror 5 years from now and you go, "Well, that sucked. That was a period of time that sucked and I'm sure glad we're not living there anymore." But you go and clean up everything so that you do that. And don't use these credit cards for anything. >> Yeah, they're closed.

>> Good. >> cards are closed. We're just trying to get out from under it now. >> Yeah.

So, first thing is you take care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

You pay your rent, pay your house payment, pay your car payment if you've got one. You did have one. You had 13,000. And And you keep keep gas in the car and those kinds of things, but um and and the credit cards are down the list of things that we're going to do.

They're They're the last people they get paid on the list. >> It's an unsecured debt. >> Yeah. >> They're They can come after the car if you stop making the payments.

>> Yeah, and it's your transportation.

And so, let's get the cash flowing around here again and then just begin to clear these credit cards off in as fast as you possibly can. Ben is in Salt Lake City.

Hey, Ben, what's up?

>> Not much. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey, my question is more of like a career question. I have been a driver for UPS for the last 6 years.

And they have been tanking volume recently, dropping accounts, and just driving volume down. And I haven't been working a lot lately.

And now they're offering a $150,000

voluntary buyout offer to leave the company. >> That's exciting. >> And So, >> What were you making? >> I'm uh 44.73 an hour.

>> Okay. So, about 90k plus a year.

>> you going to do with your life now that you're not at UPS?

>> That's the million-dollar question cuz I'm 31. I >> The $155,000 question, yeah.

>> Yeah, it's hard. I don't know. Like, UPS is been great. They've had great benefits, great pay, and they sure taken care of my family, but if I pivot and go to a different career, I'm going to take a significant pay cut.

>> And why?

>> I'm Um just cuz I've been looking and applying for jobs and had interviews and just anything pivoting from what I'm making currently is just going to be a pay cut right off the bat. >> Well, what what do you want to do with your life that makes $100,000 a year?

Let's go be one of those.

>> Yeah, you know, I've always had a you know a driving passion to you know, go to police academy, but doing ride-alongs and talking with local officers it's not so much a guaranteed thing cuz a lot of people with military backgrounds, degrees in criminal justice >> Let's not figure out what we can't do.

Let's figure out what we can do.

>> You got a little launch pad here if you take this buyout. But let's not sit on >> not going to I'm not going to go take a dumb down job. Let's use this as a chance to go live your dreams. What is the dream you want to be? Now go be that and use some of this $155,000 to get tooled up to do it.

>> [music]

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Bruce is in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hey Bruce, how are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, um I'm 64 years old and I've been working for 46 years.

And I have a little different alignment on retirement than my wife does.

And I have a lot more debt than I should have for somebody that's made the kind of money I have.

And I'm trying to figure out how to pay

down over $230,000 in debt uh and within the next year and possibly get retired by 65.

>> Okay. Where are you going to get $230,000?

>> Well, my income is I I make 100 and around $60,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> But the problem is is my wife's income

is around $30,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> And we have 20,000 plus in credit card debt.

And $12,000 on a on a car.

My mortgage is 118,000. I have a second

mortgage at 36,000.

>> Mhm. >> And I've been paying down the credit cards, but every time I turn around and look, it's higher than it was 6 months ago. >> How'd that happen?

>> Well, not enough boundaries, not enough conversation.

Um I'm I'm trying to get myself in a

position >> money saved? Do you have a nest egg?

>> Um I I have a 401k with

about 310,000.

Um I have an IRA that's

between my Roth and my traditional IRA,

it's 425,000.

Um the Roth part portion of that's only about 55,000.

>> Yeah. So, you're not you're not going to retire with 230,000 paid off in 1 year.

You don't have the money.

And and your spending your household spending's out of control.

So, even if you did retire debt free, the debt's going to come back.

>> Yeah, I I'm coming to that realization.

>> guys can't live on 160,000. How are you going to live on retirement income?

What would be your retirement income?

>> Well, probably about half of that. >> Yeah. You can't live on 160, you can't live on 80, agreed?

>> Right. Yeah. >> And the nest egg's not big enough to support retirement at 65. not.

>> it's it's a a good nest egg, but it's not a great one.

Um so, yeah, I mean, it sounds like you guys have never really addressed the issue and the two of you are going to have to sit down and go, "Hey, we're up a creek here.

We've got to cut up these credit cards and we got to get rid of these card debts and we got to get this mess cleaned up or we're going to be working till we're 80." >> Yeah, and I I The only other income I have is I do have an annuity.

>> Why do I think you're not going to do that cuz you just completely change directions after I told you what to do?

>> No, I 100% agree with you.

>> married?

>> Um 36 years.

>> is a come-to-Jesus meeting I'm talking about.

We're going to sit down and go, "This is

broken and we are going to fix it starting now."

That's the meeting tonight. No televisions on.

Nothing in the background. No dishes being washed while we're talking about it. This is we are screwed and we have

screwed ourselves and we have to fix

this now and never go back to the old ways. We're going to get on a budget. We're going to open that Ramsey EveryDollar app and the two of us are going to start acting like grown-ups, not like a couple of children in Congress spending money we don't have. We're going to cut up the credit cards and we're going to clean up this freaking debt so we don't have to work till we're 80.

And then you get yourself used to living on $80,000 a year while you pay off all

this debt and then when you retire, you can live on $80,000 a year because you've got a a couple of adults in the household instead of children.

And children can be 64, by the way.

So, um that that's what I mean but but you've you've kind of think keep thinking you're going to treat the symptom rather than the problem. And the problem is is that you guys spend more than you make and you don't have a system and you're not in in line and you're not agreed in your marriage after 36 freaking years on how we're going to do this. And so this is going to run off until you're 90 and you're going to be eating dog food.

And this is where this is headed. So, you've got to go back you've got to go to the source of the problem which is not her, it's both of you but it includes her. And so she's going to get to hear a word that you haven't told her in a long time. And here's the word, no.

We're not doing that.

We are broke people.

And you have to start acting that way or you're going to you know, this thing's going to fall in on you. And that's what you're starting to feel and there's sense of desperation creep creeping up inside of you.

I don't know if you're going to do it or not. >> I keep thinking about that old Dave quote, you work too hard to feel this broke. 46 years of a career making six figures which is way more than most Americans and you got nothing to show for it and that breaks my heart cuz we know retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. And so I wish you could just ding a hey, I'm 65 time to retire. Not if the math says you can't.

And so that's the hard truth. It's been 36 years of compounded bad decisions.

It's going to take a little while to clean this up and you guys need to be unified. >> Emma's in Los Angeles. Hi Emma, how are you? >> I'm good. Thanks for helping me out today. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so my husband and I were wondering if it's a good idea to pull from our

Roth IRA to pay off the rest of my student loan debt.

>> No.

>> Okay, that's what I thought. >> You don't sound like you're of retirement age. It's going to cost you millions and millions of dollars in the future, you. So, how much student loan debt have you guys got?

>> Uh it's about 9,300 and that's just um

my student loan and it's our only debt we have left. >> 9,300?

>> Mhm. >> Like $9,300?

>> Correct. >> What do you guys make?

>> Um we are on a variable income. Um my husband is is a steady income, so he makes about 5,600 and then my income varies from anywhere from like nothing to 12,000 a month. Um I'm a wedding videographer and so it just depends on the season that I'm in as far as like if I have a wedding or not. >> Okay. All right. How many times do you have a $12,000 month?

>> Uh last year I had about three or four of those. Um this year I haven't had one yet. >> You guys Can you guys live on his income and just pay off the student loan the next time you have a good month?

>> It's possible. Yeah. Um my work is very slow right now, so we're in kind of like a tricky season with that. >> I know, but I mean as soon as you get as soon as you get a a $12,000 month, just pay the stupid thing off.

>> Yeah, I think we could probably manage that. Yeah. >> It sounds like your spending is just been high. You can't be counting on your income cuz it's too volatile.

>> Correct. Very correct. Yeah.

>> So, where does your income go when it does come?

>> Um our expenses are not covered fully by

my husband's income. >> Okay, so you can't live on his income.

Okay. >> Not fully. >> Why are the expenses so high?

Is it your mortgage or rent or what?

Cuz it's not the debt. >> Um Yeah, I mean our rent is

kind of high. I mean not ridiculous for the area, but it's um about 2,800. Um

and then between just insurance, we have two kids. Um Um Yeah, it just adds up. We're We're in the process of like refining things and trying to get really really serious, especially since my income has been so scary lately. >> Yeah, good.

I would make a budget and pretend like you have to live on his income and cut the expenses down until you can fit that. Yeah, I I would I'd get it get your every dollar budget out and then that takes the pressure off of your business and when your business starts making a little you have one of those good months again, you just blink pay off student loan. But no, I would not the student loans are not your problem.

not living on his income and your income's not dependable.

And that's what's throwing you guys into a tizzy.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Ever want to see the person who's calling to ask a question? Ever wonder what they look like when they're calling here and asking?

Be kind of interesting, wouldn't it?

Yeah. Well, you can experience this. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour. We're going to do live Q&A with the audience and tape one of these shows. Raw confessions, crowd debates, local debt-free screams. Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim all in April. These

are small venues. We're only having about 300 seats cuz we want to be able to talk to you guys and take questions from you. Uh last last time we put this out last year it sold out in 72 hours. So, get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube.

Again, Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April just in a few weeks here and we're going to be in those cities and taking questions live studio audience. It's a different vibe, I'll tell you that. But, it's also kind of fun, isn't it, George? >> I love being out there.

We've got some even more fun interactive stuff planned for this next run. >> Kelly is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Kelly. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. I'm good. How are you today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. I listen to your show all the time and get some of your feedback that I internalize, but my fiance [snorts] and I got engaged last November and we planned our wedding for

April of 2027.

We were looking to buy a house hopefully in the next couple of months. We have the money put away for it. We >> Why are you waiting to get married so long?

>> Couple of reasons. One, we wanted to focus our money effort towards the home

first. And then my my brother and his brother

are also both getting married.

Um One in April this year, one in September this year. So with the help from our parents for our wedding, they're both gifting us a little bit of money to have a bigger and more fun wedding. So we

>> How how how how how old are you two?

>> more sense. I'm 26 and my fiance's 29.

>> Okay.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> I would beg you to not buy a house with someone that you're not married to.

>> So would it be worth it then to go to a courthouse and get married before we buy a house? >> Yes. >> And then just have the the wedding next year? >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> It change it changes it changes so many things because I I've I've just I sitting here in this seat taking calls from people that have problems with their money have uh run into so many different ways that they can go sideways cuz basically from a legal standpoint, you've just got a general partnership with no partnership documents.

And so if something goes sideways, like I'll I'll give you a horrible one. This is not going to happen to you guys, okay? But um A guy and his fiance um b- bought a house together and she died in a car wreck and so without a will.

And so now he owns the house with her mother.

>> Okay. >> Cuz he's not kin to her, so the her half was left to her only remaining kin. And by the way, her mother was crazy.

>> Oh. >> So, my crazy future didn't happen mother-in-law is now my partner in a house. Does that make you That makes me throw up just a little bit in my mouth, right?

You follow me? >> that's a little scary. >> Yeah, that's the kind of That's the kind of crap we've talked to over the last 30 years, and so we don't want that for you. And And so, yeah, I'd do the courthouse and do the celebration later.

Because now we've got a situation.

Um it's also okay to wait after you've

been married a while to buy a house. You guys maybe not. You've kind of got this plan unfolding here. I'm with you. But we always laugh and say marriage is different than shacking up, and it takes about a year of being married to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

>> Yeah, and I hear that because I live with my in-law and my future in-laws right now. >> Is that driving I think that's driving this decision. You're like, "Get me out of here." Okay, yeah, courthouse >> yes. Part of it, no.

We were going to consider renting. >> Yeah, you could you could go rent You could go rent something, but courthouse and and rent for a year and then buy is ideal. Uh courthouse and buy after the courthouse is next best thing. Please do not buy a house for someone you're not married to, people.

It is a disaster. I mean, there's there's just no way you can break up. I mean, at least when you're married, the divorce you know, there are laws that dictate how things are split up, and judges will dictate how things are split up.

in a divorce situation. But But when you're just you're shacking up and you own a house with somebody you used to sleep with, it's just really a pain in the butt. >> Never seen it be a blessing to somebody when they call in. >> Yeah, it's just a problem problem problem. So, there we go. Good stuff.

Spencer's in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Spencer.

What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Um I My question So, I'm 24

years old. I'm in college.

And I unfortunately have about $15,000

in credit card debt, which I am planning to pay off this summer with a a good internship I landed.

>> Good. >> The problem is my parents are pretty adamant that once I pay off this debt, they want me to rebuild my credit and kind of dive back into the debt world to build up my credit, and I'm kind of worried about that.

>> So, you want to fight off the lion, and then your parents are saying, "Hey, jump back in the lion's den. It's good for you." >> Pretty much. >> Makes sense.

>> Yeah. >> So, are they paying your way through college?

>> They are helping, yes. Yep.

>> Okay. All right.

Um well, I mean, there there's a couple things here. One is uh if they're paying for your school and you live with them, uh you have a different level of obligation to uh you know, to honor them and to be kind and to so forth, right? If you're standing on your own and you're out of school and you're doing your own thing and your mom and dad still have an opinion, it's they don't get to vote anymore. That's how that Not how this works.

So, uh but then the second part of the discussion is, "What's wrong with their theory?" Okay?

the the idea that you need to go get credit means that they believe that the

best way to have a wonderful life

is to purchase things and stay in debt

the rest of your life. That that's the best way for you to get things and to have a good life. They believe that.

>> Yeah. >> And their theory is wrong.

Their belief is wrong. And and and and that's at the core of the discussion.

So, they don't They're not bad people.

They're not trying to punish their son or do something bad to their son. They actually do believe a lie

that the best way for you to have a good life is for you to have good credit so that you can buy anything you want anytime you want on payments.

>> Right. Well, then so how do I have this conversation with them? Cuz cuz I think I mean I obviously agree with you and and I think they would normally agree with you. Like they're they're not terrible with their money. They're always um, you know, telling me to stay out of debt and stuff, but they they just kind of tell >> to build credit, Mom and Dad, and that is to go into debt.

And I am really don't like debt.

And so I really am not going to build my credit because I really don't want to be in debt.

It's the only reason to build your credit. It has no other value.

>> Yeah. And if you want more info on this, I wrote a whole chapter on this in my book covering every single objection. So you can read that and then have the conversation with them. Say, "Hey, I know you're worried about me getting an apartment. There's easy ways around that. I know you're worried about me not being able to get a mortgage one day.

There's a way around that." And so you just have to realize you can rise above the system instead of being stuck in the hamster wheel. >> Yeah, hang on. We'll send you a copy of that book and read it. And it might might be fun to say, "Hey, listen, I just read this chapter.

You guys read this chapter with me and tell me what you think." And because I just don't I I don't want to be in debt, Mom and Dad.

your interaction with debt.

It's an I love debt score.

If you don't borrow money, you don't have a FICO score.

Ta-da! Just like that. >> And I've lived it. I mean I paid off my debt, didn't have a score, still was able to rent apartments all over town, even ones with a landlord, not a apartment complex. I was able to get a mortgage through manual underwriting.

And everyone told me, Dave, "Oh, it's going to be so difficult. You're like you're going to have to jump through so many hoops. You're going to be exhausted." It was a nothing burger.

It was just like, "Well, you don't have a criminal background? Can you pay the deposit? All right.

You're in. >> Yeah. >> You have the money to pay the mortgage?

Great. You got a tax return and 12 months of rental history? Great.

It's not that difficult.

>> Yeah. But, the only reason to get credit is so you can get into debt so that you can get credit so that you can get into debt so that you can get credit so that you can get into debt so you can raise your FICO score so you can get into debt so you can raise your FICO score so you can get into debt.

I think it's a scam, boys and girls.

>> Groundhog Day, and only the lenders win.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am here on this show because some amazing women in my life, like my mentors, my friends, my wife, and my mom, because they invested in me.

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>> [music]

>> Ed is in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi Ed, how are you? >> I'm good. Mr. Dave, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks, Dave. So, my question is,

I've got around 300,000 in equity in my home, and I've got a total of 240,000 in

debt with 140 of that being the mortgage. Some pretty bad debt within 100k.

And I should I should I sell my house to get out of debt, start over? I'm 43. I have zero retirement. The house is my retirement. I've had a really rough couple of years, some pretty tough events have happened.

And I'm trying to get out of this financial prison, if you will, and there's no money left over to save, and I just don't know what to do. Should I sell the house, refinance the house, stay put, and just try to do the snowball? >> What's your household income?

>> Combined with my wife, it's 140,

with me bringing in 100 and her bringing in 40. The only caveat to that is after my employer paid health insurance, which is 1,700 a month, I'm taking home about 5,000 after taxes.

>> Mhm.

Okay. And but you're getting a tax refund.

>> That's another thing. I owe the IRS 7,000 that I'm making payments on that I have left from being my wife being self-employed all the way back to '22 that we're making payments on, so my tax refund goes to that. >> Okay. >> But that should be paid by the this year's tax refund with my monthly payments. I'm really hoping to have that paid off by the end of the year. >> Yeah. Okay.

And how much do you owe on your truck?

>> Uh 39,000.

>> And that's out of the 100.

>> Yes, sir. >> Sell the truck.

>> I'm 10,000 upside down. I would have to put come out of pocket to be able to sell it. Now, I just don't have it. But that would >> Still beats selling a house.

Yeah. You buy You borrow You know, go go to the credit union, borrow the 10K, and then get you a $2,000 car to drive while you get this mess cleaned up. But 40% of your problem is the truck.

Okay. So, find a way to get the 10K to get out of the truck. >> Yeah, I mean, go go to the credit union, borrow it, or who's the Who's Do you owe the money to on the truck?

>> Ally Financial.

The only problem with that, Dave, is my credit took a hit after We had a house fire in '23, and the insurance paid 80

less than what it cost to build, and I had 40 of that, but I had to beg, borrow, rob Peter to pay Paul to find the other 40, which I did, but my credit took such a hit during that time that I'm in the rebuilding phase of my credit.

>> I don't want you to rebuild your credit. Ally is a subprime lender. They're screwing you. You have a 16% interest rate, don't you?

>> It's not that bad. It's uh >> Only 14.

>> It's It's not in the half. They do prime as well. They have a subprime program. I work in automotive finance.

>> Yeah. Well, you you're um you're getting destroyed by that car.

And by the 9 and 1/2. That That's you know, and you can't You can't keep doing that in the name of {quote} rebuilding your credit to for the opportunity to borrow money again.

So, I'm trying to break the spiral without selling the house. And I'd sell a car 14 times for I'd sell a house.

>> The house isn't the problem, and it sort of doesn't change the behavior if you do sell it that got you into this mess.

And then you still got to go rent somewhere, don't you?

>> Yes, sir. And that's that's horrible, too, cuz it's going to cost double what my mortgage is. It's just getting my hands on the 10K. >> get a hold of this amazing income you guys have and just clean this mess up.

You sell the truck, you got 61 left making 140. Now, it's an easy math problem.

Let's live like we're broke for a year. >> right. You could You do have to scratch up the 10 grand, but you scratched up 40 grand to get a house fire redone. And um

you know, and that made part of this mess as well. So, I would rather have 10K on a credit card than I would have 40 on a truck.

And um you know, you That's a That's moving in the right direction then. And again, get you a hoopty. That's not real popular when you're the finance manager at a new car dealership, but I don't really care. Um you know, I don't care what your buddies think about what you drive.

I care about you and you winning. And so, appearances are not not something I'm willing to invest in at any stage of wealth building, but certainly not where you are at. So, yeah, you've got to do something to break the cycle and I don't I think selling the house is awfully desperate when you're sitting on a $40,000 truck. So, I'm finding a way to get that 10K and I'm getting rid of that thing.

Uh Austin is with us in Nashville.

>> Hey Dave, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good deal. Yes. So, I'm recently engaged. Um my fiance will graduate from

grad school in May of this year and we're getting married in May of 2027.

Um my question for you is is together,

um currently we have about $50,000 in savings and we'd be going into our marriage with about $100,000 worth of debt. Um 50%

would be her student loans and 50% would

be on a fairly low interest rates um

piece of equipment for my business. My question is, is it smart to use some of

our savings or all of our savings X Y or

Z to pay off one of the loans or should

we hold on to the savings and pay up pay

the loans off first? >> There's there's not a we or an hour.

You're not married.

>> Okay. >> You don't pay somebody's bills that you're not married to.

>> Well, I guess I'm looking, you know, next year when we are married.

>> don't you just get married? What are you waiting on?

>> Well, we're waiting just uh

I guess we're waiting to get married. Um >> Why? >> But Well, you know, we're going >> You're already playing house and acting like you're married. What what's the big deal?

>> Oh, no, we're not playing house. Uh she and >> said we have savings.

>> Oh, well, I was just saying collectively. >> Okay. >> You know >> Well, you guys individually individually if you want to live to continue to live separate lives until May of '27 when you're married and you work on you getting your debt paid off, she works on her getting her debt paid off. Uh she would use her savings towards that and you would use your savings towards yours. Until there's a we until there's a we.

At the point there's a we, we combine everything and we attack it together.

Combine incomes and everything else. What's her degree in?

>> Uh speech therapy. >> Good. Okay. Excellent.

So, she'll be able to make some good income to offset the student loan she took out, right?

>> Correct. >> Yeah, good. And let's get that done.

>> that's what we're looking at and, you know, and my business is going well, too. Um but I guess just the big thing is is is how obviously we want to, you know,

knock our debts out as quickly as possible or individually, you know, that's that's the goal. But should we take out of savings to do so or

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And you should stop adding to savings until you get the debt cleaned up cuz the debt is sucking the marrow out of your cash flow. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income.

And you're writing checks every month to other people instead of to yourself.

>> Okay. >> And that keeps you from building wealth.

And so your your first impediment, your first block blocker for building wealth is the debt. So when you clear the debt, you don't have any payments in the world. Now we got money.

And then we build an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then we start putting 15% of our income away towards retirement and pretty soon you'll be a millionaire doing that.

But you've got to get rid of all these stupid payments and talking about interest rates and I don't give a crap about the interest rates. My interest rates are zero cuz I haven't had a debt in 30 years.

And so that's my interest, zero. I got you beat. >> And that risk on the business is is bigger than you think. All it takes is a few bad months. Now you can't pay your equipment >> equipment payment. >> get that call a whole bunch. Hey, the business failed but I still owe a bunch of money on this equipment. What do I do? And you're selling it for pennies on the dollar trying to clean up the mess.

So I would move forward cleaning up this debt and maybe by the time you're married you both are debt free. How cool would that be? That's an idea. >> No, okay. Now that that and then >> Use some of the savings and future income and >> But only after you're married do you combine everything and when you come home from the honeymoon now we have debt and now we have savings and now we have

a dog and now we have until then it's your dog.

Until then it's your problem, right? And of course the dog pees on the floor then it's your dog. So it doesn't matter even if you're married. So That That's how that works. Look at what your dog did. Yeah.

>> And And to which I say look at what your daughter did. But yeah.

>> [laughter] >> Now who's who's cleaning up the mess in the in the Ramsey house? >> The dog. >> Bella the bear dog is my responsibility.

>> And Sharon made that clear.

>> Uh yeah, just cuz Bella of bear dog eats Sharon's >> Oh. >> And so >> That's definitely your problem. >> the bear dog stays on serious probation

at all times.

>> You got a line item in the earbud budget. >> or fifth set of earbuds for my wife recently, yeah.

>> Yeah. Who, would you please put those things where the dog can't get to them? >> Is it still in the dog? Is it still in >> it the dog's fault? >> Is it passing through or is it still in the dog? >> I have no I I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about >> That's someone else's problem.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

>> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. >> Me, too.

>> They [clears throat] don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, [music] and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network, is my co-host today. Nate is in Nashville. Hi Nate, how are you?

>> I'm doing good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um, I'm an independent songwriter and music producer. Um, so my income is, uh, very inconsistent, and I've had a lot of good years and and a lot of bad years. Um, so me and my wife have been okay with that kind of inconsistency in the income, um, until last year in December,

um, our baby, uh, had to be delivered extremely prematurely.

Um, and at the same time my wife was diagnosed with lupus. Um, so both, um,

our baby and my wife has been in the hospital, you know, uh, pretty much all throughout the beginning of this year. Um, and with all of this kind of, uh, medical uncertainty basically that we're we're going into with this, um, I'm trying to figure out if, um, I have

the option to do something called a catalog sale, which in music is is kind of like selling a business. It's just, um, getting a lump sum for all of the songs, um, that I've that I've made. Um,

and I have the option to do that, and I'm kind of wondering if it's a smart move to just, um, take the sale, um, and

invest that money and live off of the the interest, um, or, uh, if I should just keep working and, um, try to maybe find a way to make my income a little more consistent.

>> Yeah. Nate, I'm sorry you guys are going through this. It rocks your world when the baby's sick. And when mama's sick, too, it's double. That's a tough tough thing. And it And then And when you're an artist, it particularly is rocky.

So, um as you guys as you know, I'm in Nashville, and so I've got lots and lots of friends in the business that have sold catalogs. And so, I'm fairly familiar with [clears throat] it.

Um typically what happens in your world is

that your the money that you make from the songs um is the value that the catalog has.

Right? >> Right. >> And so, what typically happens as you

know, and everybody else knows if you think about it, is when a song comes out, and particularly if you get a good hit, um it'll peak within a few months.

And then uh depending on how big a hit

it is, it'll continue to feed out and pay out, but gradually the the payout deteriorates over time on every song.

Agreed? >> Yes. Yes, that's correct. Yeah. >> Okay. So, as it goes up, big nice thing, big splash, everybody's smiling, everybody's happy. We collect a statue or two, and then we go on and start But then the the income associated with a hit from 5 years ago is way different than the income associated with a hit this year. Um and and so, what you're trying to figure out is is uh And that's how they value the catalogs. They value them based on what they think they can make on it over time.

Right? >> Yep. >> And and so, they're looking at that deterioration.

And and and so, any anything you write the year after you sell the catalog is yours. You're not selling your future hits. You're only selling the past ones. And so, that block of income starts at one

level and goes down every single year

when they buy that catalog. Right?

>> Right. >> Yes. >> And so, that that's how they're valuing it. So, that's also how you make the decision as to whether you want to keep it or not. Some artist friends of mine want to keep it just because those songs are like their babies. They don't want to let them go.

They're [clears throat] very attached to them emotionally. >> It's like a legacy for them. >> Yeah, and others others view it on a pure business factor and go, you know, I can get X number of million dollars for this thing and I'm going to keep on in the business and I'll make my future there, but this gives me a lump sum to stabilize my life, which is sounds like kind of how you're thinking. So, what are they offering you for the catalog?

>> Um it would be around 4 million.

>> Good. Oh, you've done a great job.

Congratulations. You've had some good stuff, man. All right.

>> How old are you?

I'm 33. >> Yeah. >> What was a good year for you? Like what are you normally making in a year?

Um well, my last year was my best year um and I I made just about a million um and that's why I'm a little bit not sure because if I do a a deal with an LTM deal, which is the last 12 months, I would get like a about a times four um on my catalog sale. Um but I'm also not

sure like if I continue to write, maybe I can make that number go up and then my catalog sale could be worth, you know, >> nothing to say you couldn't sell another catalog. >> That's true. >> You know, it's just this is one block of songs, one library. Okay? Um and so but

here's the deal, okay? So, if you got 4 million today, but you would get a million next year and 800 the next year, would you rather have that stream of income? Cuz that stream of income's going to be there.

>> Right. >> Um and so, you know, what I would say is if you project that you're going to make a fourth of this in the coming 12 off of this catalog,

uh I'm probably keeping that.

>> Okay. >> Because you're going to get a million of the 4 million right now and so we're only got a $3 million swing and what have you got $3 million for?

You're going to get that 3 million in the next 5 years.

>> Yeah. Yeah, [clears throat] I think just with the um just seeing how crazy these swings can be in music um and just you know, not not having that certainty especially with >> Well, it's not it's it's not a it's not a horrible deal and it's a fairly standard process. Like you said, they're doing about 4x on the LPM. So, that's that's not a that's that's a fairly standard formula and they're not ripping you off.

with $4 million in an investment which if you put it in a good investment it'll make you 400,000 a year.

>> Right. >> And forever. >> And that's without you >> forever >> producing future income. >> Yeah. And and and on top of that then and you've got that for your baseline to operate your household on and relax and then you still you still go to work every day. You still go down there and sit and write every day like you were desperate and broke and hungry.

>> Mhm. >> But you're not desperate and broke and hungry anymore, but you still write like that. You still work like that.

Because my experience with the songwriters is it's you know, you have to go to work every day.

>> Yeah. >> It's not it's not random. You guys you guys grind those things out most of the time, right?

>> Uh yeah and then you know, I haven't been able to do as much this year. I really haven't been able to do much at all just with the medical situation and so that's >> Yeah, but I'm I'm not talking about I'm not I'm not shaming you about that. What I'm talking about is just because you've got $4 million in a mutual fund doesn't mean you can quit work.

>> Right. Absolutely. >> When mom and baby are healthy and you're ready to go back to work, go back to work, Nate. You've got a talent, go use it. >> Okay. >> Don't get lazy because you got 400k or four $4 million and you're making 400k.

>> Do you believe you're talented enough to go create another million dollar year in the future? >> question. If he built that catalog, he can do it.

>> Yeah, I I I think I think I can I think I'd be able to do it. >> I'm I'm just putting myself in your shoes. I'm taking the deal. >> Yeah, I am, too.

>> I like what it does for you. It stabilizes your life. You got a family to responsible for. You're not just a kid with a guitar and a in a room with too much coffee.

You know, you're this is there's you now got other stuff going on. So, I'm with you, man. I think >> the volatility of the stock market over the volatility of the music industry.

>> Oh, no, it's it's not it's not that volatile. It's very predictable. It's going to go down. >> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] >> It's very predictable. We just talked about the stream of income deteriorates.

>> The S&P 500 has only gone up over time.

>> Yeah, yeah, Sean. I'm going to I'm going to take 400k a year off of that 4 million, live on that or 300k and live on that, and let that sit there. Get with a Smart Vestor Pro.

Um, you know, click at Ramsey Solutions Nate and get sit down with one of the folks we recommend. They'll sit down, put together, and believe me, they're in Nashville. They've worked with catalog sales before, too. They they know what it is. It's a fairly you know, in our in our community, we're in a music community, that's a fairly common occurrence.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

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Brandy is in Tulsa. Hi, Brandy. How are you? >> I'm good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I, um, we together

have about $65,000

in debt. 50,000 of that is our auto

loan, which is about a thousand a month.

And we're barely staying current on it.

Um, we are behind on rent, which just

started in February.

Um, the deal with that was that we were working a job where we got the house for free. Um, and now, but the job only paid like

a thousand dollars a month.

So, obviously not sustainable. Our bills are about 3,800 a month. Um, he does have a

new job now that is bringing in $3,600 a

month as of February 1st.

Um, so, we are behind on rent. Um, barely

staying current on the car.

Um we have not filed taxes yet. We should be doing that this week.

Um our plan is to get um current on rent. Um

and then about half of that we owe um the last boss we had about half of We're

expecting about um 5 to 6,000 um return. So, we're going to owe him about half of that. Um >> For what? >> So, we're just wondering like how do we get that? >> owe him thousands of dollars, the guy you worked for?

>> We well, my husband accidentally broke a

piece of equipment that resulted in about that much to fix it.

>> Yeah, but that doesn't mean your husband is reli- is Did he borrow the equipment or was he operating the equipment while he was being employed?

>> He was operating the equipment while being employed. Uh my husband is >> Why does that make your husband liable?

>> He feels bad for breaking the equipment

cuz the owner >> That doesn't make him liable.

You're broke.

I don't care how bad he feels.

Okay, if George drops his computer that I own on the way out of the studio today and breaks it, George does not have to pay for it. >> Yes.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. >> That's how it works. That's how it works when you have That's how it works when you have employees. >> Did he sign some agreement saying that he's liable for any accidents or damages?

>> Not yet. He did tell him that he wants

to pay him that that he felt he's owed that >> Why? >> He did come to us with an agreement.

>> Why? >> Um Why on what basis does an employer think

the employee has to pay for broken equipment?

What was the what's the found the moral foundation of this? This is cray-cray.

>> I think it was just my husband's um >> stupidity.

This is a month of his pay. You guys Okay. Number one, the landlord is on

hold. Period. I mean the the former boss, if if you ever pay him, it's not going to be anytime soon. Number one. Number two, >> Okay. >> sell this stupid butt car.

This car is insanity.

What is this thing? >> So, I do have a question on that now that you bring that up. Um it is a 2025

uh Dodge Durango.

>> I I got it. I got it.

>> Yeah, we bought it last year

when we were making about $5,000 a month

and we had that job for about a year and a half. >> That doesn't mean you need to be stupid.

>> I know. >> $50,000 [laughter] Dodge Durango for $1,000 a month?

It's killing you.

>> How far under water are you on this thing? >> It is worth by Kelley Blue Book about

26,000, so half.

>> How is that even possible?

You guys drive this thing to the ground already in a year?

>> We drive about 35,000 miles a year.

>> Why?

>> Um during that time we were traveling more for work and we traveled about a

round trip uh 200 and something miles >> trade a car that was upside down into this deal?

>> I'm sorry? >> Did you trade a another deal another car that was upside down into this deal?

>> over negative equity? >> Because even at 35,000 miles a Dodge Durango should not have lost half of its value in 1 year. They suck, but they don't suck that bad.

>> Yeah, so we had about $10,000 of negative equity in on the old vehicle that we rolled into it. >> that makes more sense. >> 40 down to 26 cuz you drove it to the ground. Okay, that makes more sense at least. >> [snorts] >> Woo. Is there any other debt?

>> Um we have 9,000

uh about 9,400 about 5,500 of that is personal loans

and the rest is credit. >> Okay. All of that's on hold until you get your rent current and keep your truck current until you figure out a way to get out of this truck. And the land >> [clears throat] >> and the ex-employer does not get any of your tax refund until you are out of debt.

And even then they probably don't get any money. They're you you do not pay for broken equipment when you work for someone.

That's not how life works.

Okay? If I own if I own a heavy equipment operation, I got six bulldozers, and one of the guys breaks a bulldozer, he doesn't have to pay for it. I have to pay for it. I'm the owner.

That's how it works. >> Okay. The owner's taking the risk here.

>> The owner takes the risk. That's how owning a business is. And even if the guy uh you know, made a mistake and tore it up,

it's still on the owner, not on the employee. And so what you guys are engaging in, I don't I don't understand the moral code by which you've come to this decision or your husband thinks he's liable. He's not. Not There's no code I've ever been around that says he's liable.

>> He might feel guilty, but he's not liable. >> bad for tearing up the guy's stuff. That that he should do. That's an honorable man, but that does not make you need to pay for it.

And for sure you don't pay for it when your rent's not current and you can barely pay your car payment.

And don't get behind on those things again. And uh never again.

Never again buy a car on debt.

The rest of your life.

This should be the last one.

Because you guys are handcuffed. This thing has a gun to your head. You you have nowhere to go.

And I'm not sure how you're going to get out of this truck. It's a mess.

You're going to need to save up the difference. Yeah, you got two bad deals tied together here and you're at 50% you know, sub. I don't know I don't know how you're going to do that. >> He's going to need to make a whole whole lot more money and I don't know if you're working outside the home, but I think you're going to need to get a job as well.

>> Yeah, you guys are all going to have to be working all the time for the next 3 years to clean up a lot of this mess. But you got you cuz everything you've touched has gone backward for the last 2 years. You've gone back you've gone deeper in the hole, deeper in the hole, deeper in the hole and you got to turn that around and income turns that around and then stop doing ridiculous decisions turns that around.

You've got to stop that.

It's just destructive.

And and so oh man, what a mess.

>> We're seeing a higher and higher percentage of people taking on car loans over a thousand dollars. It just keeps going up. >> And let me let me also tell you guys out there this is second or third time today that we've taken these calls.

So here's your order of priority.

And you do not violate this order of priority. The first thing you do with money that comes into your household, without exception, you buy groceries.

Not restaurants.

You buy groceries for your family. Your family eats before they before you do anything.

The next thing you do is you keep the lights and the electricity on.

You have to have that to operate.

And almost everyone in No, even in a horrible crisis can put the money together to do those two things.

The next thing you do is you stay current on the rent. So, you're not freaking homeless.

You stay current on your mortgage, you stay current on the rent. Period.

The next thing after the rent is current is the car.

Not the car and then the rent. You did that backwards, Brandy.

You keep rent current cuz if they take the car, you at least got a place to live. If they take the house, you're living in the car. We don't want to do that.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

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Insured by the NCUA.

>> [music]

[music]

>> The Ramsey question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If your private loans are student loans are in default, it's a mess. But Yrefi can help clean it up. Yrefi helps borrowers refinance with low, fixed-rate payments and get a clear plan forward so you can clean things up

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Might not be in all states.

>> Today, we've got two related questions.

First is from Craig in Georgia who asks, "What will the market do based on what's going on in Iran?" And Allen in Indiana

asks, "My daughter is going to college in August. With the stuff going on in Iran, should I change her 529 plan to an age-based investment?"

So, Dave, people are spooked by what's going on. It obviously affects the economy at least temporarily. And so, they're wondering, "Should I make any changes to the way I'm investing right now?" >> No.

>> That was easy. >> You should not change a thing.

Okay. If you go back throughout history, every time there's a burp in the geopolitical world, every time Donald Trump burps or Joe Biden burps, or there's an October 7th attack by Hamas and they kill innocent babies in Israel, or there's the Israelis now and the United States bombing the crud out of Iran for a few days, uh when you go back through history, you're going to see that generally what happens there's a one or two-day, sometimes a 30-day period of time that the market market will go down.

Those that ride roller coasters only get hurt if you jump off in the middle of the ride.

Give an example. Anybody remember that little thing COVID? Mhm. Remember that there's a little thing we had called COVID-19?

It was a little problem we had a few years ago. And it was going to crash the entire world economy and everything and the market dove when everything started sheltering in place and uh, you know, everybody had to go home and all the all these everything started shutting down and all this the market dove and it went down and down and down and down and down and down.

57 days later it was back up to where it

started.

Mhm.

Oh, uh, yeah. The when the bombs first started falling on Iran the other day, um, the market dove. It went down a couple of points.

Um, it's been a week or two. It's back up.

Um, the market's basically flat as of this as of this recording for this year. And um, net net net out of all the ups and downs and backs and forth.

If you jump in or jump out every time you see a bad report on CNN or Fox, you're never going to stay invested and you're never going to make any money.

And so, no, you don't do age-based investments for 529s for God's sakes

and you don't ever do that and you don't, um, sit and fret about what the market's going to do based on a war if you if you even call it a war.

Um, based on a series of bomb runs.

Um so I mean I again, the markets just are not that tender and here here's the thing, you

should never put money in mutual funds that you're going to leave alone a week.

You should never put money in mutual funds that you're going to leave alone for a month.

You should never put money in mutual funds if you're going to leave it alone for six months.

You should never put money in mutual funds unless you're going to leave it alone three to five years.

And over three to five years all of these problems that drive the market down become a distant memory and all you

will see is a trendline overall up.

>> So here here's my investing strategy.

Time in the market beats timing the market. And what you're doing when you get spooked by this is you're timing the market. And what you're really doing is you're selling low and then you're going to buy high cuz you don't know when the bottom is. So what do you do?

You cash out hoping that you're going to get you know avoid this big dip. And then what happens is when you get back in, it's already back to record highs. And so you really lost out cuz the best days usually happen after the worst days.

>> Yeah. And your daughter goes to college in August, by August it'll be a memory.

Uh by the next August and by the way you don't need all of her 529 money the first year she goes to school. If you do, she didn't have much in the 529 to start with.

And so you're just going to take out enough to pay for that year's or that six months or that semester.

That's all you're going to use. And so the vast majority, let's say you got enough for four years in the in the 529.

Okay? The vast majority of what you need is not going to be used for two to three more years.

And so over the next two to three years, you know, you the bombing of Iran will be a distant memory and it's a much smaller

blip on the radar, no pun intended, than

uh than COVID was. COVID was a real thing in terms of what it did to the market, but it recovered dramatically fast after that. And so,

you go back and look at March of 20 and watch what the stock market did. Go look at the chart for March of 20 and you'll see it come right back up in April and May and June. And um >> These age-based investments stay for people that don't understand what it's doing is moving your investments to more conservative things like bonds as your kid gets into the college phase so that it sort of stabilizes. But what you're missing out on is the returns.

Look at the last 3 years. It was up 23%, 25%, 17%. And if you were half in bonds, you're not going to see those returns.

So, no, no, no, no, no.

If every time you get afraid by watching the news, quit watching the news.

Cuz you know, it's it's it doesn't matter. You know? Like we were going to Cabo the other day and some of my friends' wives are like, "Oh, they have problems in Mexico. You can't go to Cabo." And I'm like, It's not It's in It's in Cancun. I mean, it's like They got to take They have problems in Chicago, so I'm not going to Nashville. That's just dumber than crud and people's perception of stuff. So, um

"Oh, I'm canceling." What are you canceling for? We're not even We're not a thousand miles away. They burned a car in Chicago, so you're not going to Nashville. I mean, that's just dumb. So,

it's the same thing here. It's overreaction, the fear porn that the news media just spreads all the time.

And so, turn off your television is a good idea for your investing strategy.

And just just get off the Fox website

because it's just "Blah, the world's coming to an end. The world's coming to an end." The world Chicken Little lives there full-time. The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

Our phones here are 888-825-5225.

James is in Raleigh. Hi James, how are you? >> Good, and yourself? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um so, I went through my financial

transaction transactions the other day and on my wife's phone I found that she has spent

uh a minimum of about $5,000 sending to

one person because she has an addiction to pain pills that we're currently trying to get under control and she has dealt with five or six people over the course of the last year and I've been noticing more and more money going missing. I had about $600 saved up and that went

missing and every time that I ask her about it, where the money went, she can't give me a straight answer. Well, I finally >> wife is addicted to drugs, take her off of all of the accounts.

>> Well, I did and that was the problem is that she will grab my phone while I'm asleep. I'm a truck driver, so I'm home two, maybe three nights a >> on >> Put a passcode on your phone, man.

>> She cannot have ac- if she's an addict, she cannot have access to funds.

>> Okay, and at this point now I I don't want to leave her because we we do have two kids together. They're both getting ready to start school and >> That doesn't mean she has to have access to funds.

She has no access to money, period, if she's an addict. It's not good for her, dude. She'll kill herself.

>> And I've had to explain that to her and she doesn't understand. >> she understands. I don't have to explain it. You get no money until you are clean

of drugs, period.

I'm not explaining, I'm telling.

I'm protecting you from yourself and I'm protecting us from you until you get off these pain pills and you're dry.

And so, we got to get you some help for that, baby doll. I love you and we're going to we're going to walk through this together, but you've got no money.

I'm not giving you You have no access to no money, no how, no where when you're doing drugs.

Period.

That That's That's a That's a non-starter. You just got to start with that and end with that. And make sure she's actually getting the help she needs to get healed, man. And then when she gets healed and becomes trustworthy again, worthy of trust, then we start working this like two functioning adults together. But until then, no.

>> [music]

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>> Angela is in Phoenix. Hey, Angela, what's up? >> Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. I'm excited to see you guys next month in Phoenix. >> Yay! Glad you're coming. How can we help? >> I was in a car accident in April of 2020. I'm okay and went through several physical therapy sessions, like maybe eight sessions. I was represented by a law firm. Fast forward in 2023, the case

closed and I only got $4,000 settlement after everything said and done. And they told me everything was settled and was asked to sign a client directive. And I was only 24 at that time and no no nothing um No it's nothing anything better. Fast forward to 2026, last week I got an

email from physical therapy that I owe them $3,800 because the law firm didn't pay them. And I didn't I I have to pay for it. Um there's 6 years

from now, I was able to confirm that everything was legitimate and I just don't know what to do. Do I just pay them >> talk to the law firm?

>> Law No, not law firm, the physical therapy.

>> I know. You said the law firm was supposed to pay it and they didn't.

>> Yes, they didn't. And when they said all of the >> law firm that was supposed to pay it and didn't? >> They didn't. They told me that >> Did you call the law firm that was

supposed to pay the bill?

>> Yes, I did. But they told me that >> They told me that at that time, they said they cannot get a hold of the physical therapy.

>> Yes. Last week >> you got a bill that they were supposed to have paid. Did you call them this week and say, "How come I got a bill that you were supposed to pay?" >> It's not even a bill. It's just an email from the >> Honey, did you call the law firm?

>> I did call the law firm. >> Okay, jeez. What did they say?

>> They said at that time in 2023 before they closed the settlement, they cannot get a hold hold of the physical therapy.

That's why they asked me to sign the directive client that I have to take care of everything. But from what I can remember, they told me everything was settled even the medical bills from the hospital.

>> Okay, so you signed off knowing at the

time they have a file a piece of paper in their file that says you knew at the time that they had not paid the physical therapy. >> No, they told me at that time that everything was settled and I don't have to worry about anything. And come six years after, you know, the physical therapy was emailing me last week about it. >> that. What I'm trying to figure out is what the law firm is what's their excuse for not having paid this and how did they say it was your fault?

>> They said that at that time they cannot get a hold of that physical therapy.

That's what they told me last week.

>> That doesn't matter. They still have to pay it.

Whether they got a hold of them or not.

>> You're telling me for 3 years they haven't been able to get in touch with the physical therapy place?

>> No, from 2020 to 2023 they they didn't

they didn't settle it.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I think I'm going to be talking to the lawyer that was supposed to have paid the bill and I don't really want to hear any excuses about why they didn't pay the bill and they need to call the physical therapy company and get this settled.

Because that was their job. That was their job originally. They withheld money from your settlement to pay your bills. And then they didn't do it.

>> Yes, the settlement was 14,000 and I only got 4,000 in total.

>> Which means you got nothing.

By the time you pay this bill.

So the only person who made any money on this was the lawyer. Oh, there's a shock. Okay. Oh my gosh.

All right. Well, I'm going to be all up in the business of this law firm saying you guys are supposed to have paid this bill and you didn't and you need to contact them and you need to negotiate this. And

at you know, if it does land back on you Angela, you probably can settle it for 4 or 500 bucks. And I'm just tell them it's it's a you know, it's a 6-year-old bill. And you haven't gotten it so far in 6 years and I'm not paying you. The law firm was supposed to pay you, but I will I will give you $500 for settlement in full and then you can go after the law firm that was supposed to have paid it if you want to do that.

But you know, if you want to settle it, that's fine or you want to dump it in the back in the lap of that law firm. I'm dumping it back in the lap of the law firm.

they should have taken care of this at the time. And I'm not sure I understand what your deal was with them completely, but it sounds like they were supposed to have taken care of this and didn't. >> And I'd find some documentation. Right now it's well they said >> Yeah. >> five years ago that they were going to do this thing. I'd get some What did you sign in writing? What did it say?

>> Yeah, but a a medical bill

regardless of how it what the story is, a medical bill that has been unpaid for 6 years, you can settle it for pennies on the dollar. And so just make them a $500 offer to go away and they'll go away. And give them 500 bucks and get it in writing and keep the piece of paper forever. Once you settle this. That's probably your easiest route. Um but there's something about the justice the injustice of the law firm being the only one that actually makes any money on this transaction.

Oh jeez.

Don't get me started on my >> one of those billboards that she called one of those numbers?

>> [sighs] >> They took her to the cleaners on this one. Getting 70% of the payout.

>> No, no, they got it all.

>> Well, she said she got 4,000.

>> Yeah, but now she owes 3,800.

>> Which they >> that they were supposed to have paid and if they had paid that she would have got nothing. So they got it all. That's my point. That thing's net net sum of zero.

>> I'd be the squeaky wheel. >> Yeah, so I'm I'm getting up up in some folks business here at a minimum just to have some fun with this.

And then um cuz there's nothing more fun than yelling at lawyers.

Um that's that's about my like one of my favorite things. >> time for Dave. >> So um phew.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> I'm sorry about that. Sorry you're facing that. If you want the easy way out, I'd just settle it for 500 bucks.

Call the physical therapy people and say the lawyer is supposed to pay it. I don't owe it. I'm going to turn it over to them or I'll give you 500 bucks for settlement in full, but I'm not giving you 3,800. Period. Not going to do it.

Sue me. Laura's in Washington, D.C. Hi Laura, how are you? >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So my question is how do we navigate wanting to start a family but still being in baby step two?

>> Uh just start a family.

I don't wait to get I don't wait to get out of debt to have kids.

>> What are your concerns?

What are you worried about?

>> Um I think we just feel like anxious um

and fearful that everyone says having a kid is a big expense.

>> It's not.

They don't eat much. They're tiny.

>> Yeah. >> They really don't.

Do you guys have any money saved?

No, they're in baby step two. You got a thousand bucks?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's just stack up cash once you're pregnant and go all right, for the next nine months we're just going to save and save and save and save and once you and baby are home safe, we can push play on the debt snowball. But for now, just make your minimum payments. No, no, for now, you pay full debt snowball. You pay everything on the smallest debt.

When and if you get pregnant, then you push pause on your debt snowball and

pile up cash instead of reducing debt

until baby comes.

Okay? And then you use that cash to pay

on the debt if baby comes and I mean, I'm sure you've got health insurance, don't you? >> Yes. >> Okay. Covers labor and delivery, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. So, you can find out your deductible, your out-of-pocket maximum.

What's your household income?

>> Uh 240 gross.

>> $240,000?

>> Gross, gross. >> Yeah, well, it's not gross at all.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. How much debt do you guys have? I think you can afford a baby kid.

>> Okay. >> People have babies all the time. I don't care. I mean, you're you're you're you're you're in good shape. You're fine. You're fine. There's nothing to be anxious about. Yeah, but you do have to focus and be thoughtful, but children do not cost $300,000. They're not It's not that big a deal. I mean, little money on some diapers and formula and uh they don't take up much room, so you don't unless you go crazy, go spend $100,000 redoing the nursery that the kid doesn't even know is there.

But that's you going crazy. That's not the kid. That's you. And so but I mean they just need a place to sleep.

And so I was with a guy the other day.

Where was I?

And he was telling the story.

Oh, I know where it was now.

And he said when he was born his parents lived in a one bedroom studio apartment.

And they had a uh dresser drawer thing a

chest of drawers that they bought at a garage sale and they opened up the top drawer and that was his bassinet.

>> That's incredible. That's old school right there. >> That's how he started out life. >> And he doesn't even remember. >> And he's a he's a wealthy guy. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. So yeah, they don't kids don't cost much. You just need a dresser drawer.

>> Just 31.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. We're

so glad you're with us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Marie is in Philadelphia. Hi Marie, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> [clears throat] >> So um my husband has committed financial infidelity uh three times. Um and every time that

he was caught we had to

refinance and all of that. Um >> So he runs up debt behind your back and lies to you. >> Yep. Yep. 100% and I told him the third time,

um if he does it again, we will divorce.

I'm not doing this anymore.

>> So, he did it again and are you divorcing?

>> I know, this happened like 2 weeks ago.

Um >> I'm the third the third time was 2 weeks ago?

>> The third time was 2 weeks ago. I found out. >> Okay. >> He He did not come clean. I found it.

Um my friend does um financial whatever

for a company and she helped me do a credit check on him and we found it.

>> So, so are you divorcing then?

>> I checked in yesterday online to see how

to get divorce papers. Yes.

Um I'm I'm still going back and forth. I just I Yeah. We've been married 41 years together. Um my question is I have So, I home

schooled our five children. We have 11 grandkids. Um I started a cleaning business. Um it's just me after our son youngest son

graduated.

So, um I been taking that money and we put it into a savings and we consider it like fun money. So, we use it for vacations, house projects, whatever.

My question is do I go and get his name off of that account?

>> You need to go see a divorce attorney and let them advise you on what you're allowed to do in the state of Pennsylvania while filing divorce.

Whether you can take names off of accounts or not. I don't know if you can do that there.

Um >> Yeah. >> But yeah, I mean you you've got to protect yourself in any way that is legally allowable.

And but you certainly need to take pictures of the account so that you know that that money is there and if it disappears then you've at least got something to hold against him, you know, while you go through the divorce and uh you know, for instance if it How much is in that account?

>> My account 7,000.

>> Oh, so it's not much. Okay.

And he's never touched it thus far.

>> I have Well, we used it Yeah, we used it for our anniversary >> stolen from it and lied about that account. >> Not Not that I know of because

Okay, so I'm dyslexic with numbers. He knows that. So he always has paid our bills. He's always done our finances and I put our my guard down last year. I should not have done it and he went and

started using a credit card and I was just like, "Son of a gun. I just, you know, can't believe that you did this for the fourth time in our marriage." Um

So I Yeah, I don't know because >> Well, the $7,000 is probably going to be used as your attorney's fee.

>> Okay.

>> And so do you guys have Do you guys have Do you guys have any Do you have any assets? Do you have any money in the marriage? >> We have nothing. Nope, we have nothing.

>> You own a house? >> We have We own a house. That's it.

>> What's it worth? >> No. Um We have And my daughter's

uh mother-in-law, she's a realtor and she said she thinks she can get between five and six a hundred thousand for it.

>> What do you owe on it? >> It's an acre lot.

Uh-huh. >> What do you owe on it?

>> Nothing. It was paid off five years ago.

>> Okay.

All right.

So have you guys attempted marriage counseling?

>> We did when he did this the last time

um and it it got better.

The problem was so we he said no more credit cards so we had no credit cards and we took in a trip for our 40th anniversary last year to Utah.

And they would not let us rent a car unless we had a credit credit card.

>> No, that's not true.

>> Well, he I don't know. We he said he tried. They won't take debit cards, they won't take checks, they won't take cash.

He said, "I can't to rent a car, you have to have a credit card." So, he tried. I think it's Capital One.

And so he did and I should have taken it

and I asked him the other day, I said, "I want the credit card." He said, "No." And I was like, "Okay, well, there's that." >> Is your name on any of these debts or cards?

>> Um the ones that we're paying 80,000

off, so we consolidated so they take out 600 every month from our checking account. And I guess they barter with the the companies to pay off whatever.

>> Did you work with a debt debt settlement relief company, one of these scummy companies out there? >> Yes, that's what she did, yeah. >> Yes, that's what we're with.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you have $80,000 in debt on credit cards and you have a $500,000 paid for house.

And do you make enough to live on?

>> I do not. I only work two days a week.

The other three days I babysit >> are you how are you going to eat?

>> That's my yeah. I'm going to have to work full-time. That's the only way.

>> Yeah. How old are you?

>> I'm me, I'm 60.

>> Okay.

Oh, Maria, I'm so sorry.

I wish I wish marriage counseling would have fixed this. Um but it it sounds like your husband is just whatever. I don't know what he is, but um >> Do you know where he's spending all this money? Is he an addict of some sort?

>> No, so that's what I I checked on and um

my friend he does finances for Armstrong. He said everything shows it's just gas and food and one was on Lowe's.

It's all like petty stuff. It's like I don't understand.

I Yeah, I don't I don't know.

>> What does he make? >> It's frustrating.

He only makes He almost made 60,000 last year.

>> Mhm.

>> He had a job same job for 35 36 years.

Um they closed up. It was a printing company and of course you know computers took over that. So um he got a better he got a job and he hasn't worked swing shift anymore and he doesn't have to work weekends but he took a big pay cut. Um >> Yeah.

Marie, I I think you need to um get in touch with your pastor, get in touch with your marriage counselor and you need to sit down and have an initial discussion with a divorce attorney and you need to look at the reality of what this is facing here.

down the toilet with grandkids everywhere and everything else. That's just that's that's just devastating.

And um but I but I don't understand a guy who's willing to give up all of that either for just simply for the use of a credit card. It doesn't make any sense at all and lying to his wife as much as freaking habit.

Uh horrible. Just horrible.

I guess it's proof that integrity matters even after 41 years.

>> Yeah, that is brutal. We see a lot of this with couples that have been married so long kids are finally out of the house and then they have to face the spouse and go oh my gosh this misbehavior I've been dealing with it and putting up with it for far too long.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Well, we wish we could get to every single call and every single question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our

free AI tool that is built and trained

on hours and hours and hours and hours and days and days and days of this show on proven Ramsey principles. So, you're going to get an answer pretty much the same answer you get exactly here on the air because that's who trained it. Maybe even nicer.

>> Almost guaranteed to be nicer.

>> Yeah. >> You'll get the answer the same way we do it right here. Ask Ramsey. You can ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com completely free.

Just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Ask Ramsey. George, this little

project has exploded. I was meeting with one of our leaders today and he was telling me the uh bazillion people the number is crazy the number of people that are going to ask Ramsey. It's working. >> It's It's people they're making >> I didn't know I didn't know if it work.

>> Yeah. Well, you you put a tool out there and you go, "Will people use this instead of trying to search the internet for a random answer?" And it's working.

>> Well, and you don't have to ask your question in front of 32 million people which you do on the show. >> That helps, too. >> Sharon is in Atlanta. Hi, Sharon. How are you? >> [clears throat] >> I'm doing just fine. How are you, Dave?

How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Okay. This is my question.

I have almost $200,000 in consumer debt. >> Good lord. >> I know. $252,000 owed on the mortgage. And so, my question is, should I stop my Roth that I have and retire?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> You should stop everything and clean up this mess. What in the world do you owe $200,000 on?

>> I owe about $71,000 $71,000 in credit

cards, $35,000 in finance companies, and $61,000 in taxes, and $20,000 on a car.

>> Why did you not pay your taxes?

>> Well, I am paying them. I just I just haven't paid them. >> pay them. That's why you have $61,000 in debt. >> I'm working on it. Look, I just Look, okay, Dave. I found you at the end of last year and I have turned my household upside down. I'm working on it.

>> I'm glad. I'm glad. But I mean, why did you not pay your taxes?

>> I Well, I didn't pay I haven't paid them in full, but I've been paying on them on a monthly basis. >> I know. I'm asking why you didn't pay them originally. I'm seriously.

>> Okay, the reason why is because with my husband's job, he's a contractor, and you know, if you don't lay that 25% to the side. >> Yes. >> That That was >> not But, you've not been doing your quarterly estimates, and you got behind cuz he's a 1099 guy. >> got behind. But, we coming in there.

>> All right. That makes sense. Okay. So, what's your household income, Sharon?

>> 286 before tax. >> Well, that's good news. >> Woo! >> Mhm. >> So, when you decide to turn this house upside down, you can shake this 200k out pretty quick, can't you?

>> I I That's what I'm thinking. But, you know, and and that's what I'm planning on doing. But, this is the first question one of the first questions I have. The taxes come first, correct?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Because the interest rate is unbelievably and the penalties are unbelievably high.

And the And, more importantly than that,

the uh they have almost unlimited power to screw up your life.

>> Got you. >> They can just show up and take all the money out of your checking account. They don't even have to ask a judge. They just do it. >> Okay. Okay. So, so this 61,000, what I'm

thinking is is that probably in the next 1 2 3 4 maybe 5 to

6 months, I can have the 61,000 paid off. >> That's good. That's good. You don't have any money in savings that's not retirement? >> Uh in savings? Well,

about three or four thousand dollars.

That's about it. >> Okay. That needs to be $1,000, and we'll throw the rest of it at the taxes. And then, let's get the budget done, and you and the husband sit down, look at that budget, and go go scorched earth.

No life, and we're getting these taxes gone. And once the stupid IRS is gone, and we never and we file quarterly estimates from this point forward, so we never get back there again.

>> Right. Definitely.

>> Good. Good. And then and then, we're going to work the rest of the debts off smallest to largest using the debt snowball. And stop all investing, stop all savings, and let's focus on this cuz you make enough money to not be this broke. >> Right. Definitely. Well, you know what?

I didn't realize I was this broke until I started listening to you.

>> [laughter] >> That almost sounds like it's my fault.

>> If I didn't LISTEN TO YOU, DAVE, I wouldn't be [laughter] here right now. >> Oh my goodness.

>> I You know what? I turned this house I turned these bank accounts that we have upside down >> Good. Good. Shake and shake and the nickels out. >> Is he on board, too?

>> Oh, yeah. He's Well, he had no choice because he had been doing the budget for 43 years. And I'm like, okay, we're going to do them together. So, it's it's somewhat my fault. But uh as of right now >> Where'd he learn how to budget? Congress? >> No, I love it. You guys are great.

>> That's wild. >> You're going to do good, Sharon. I'm proud of you. Keep it up.

>> 20k slipping through your hands every month. Now we just got to get control of it. >> Yeah, it's good you're going to be able to knock some stuff out fast. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, to make sure you get all your questions answered.

It takes you the baby steps on steroids. And as you're working through this, you're going to want to know a few of those odds and ends. And you call me back anytime, kiddo. I I got a feeling you're going to do good.

She's on fire. >> Yeah. She's spunky.

>> Turn Turn these bank accounts upside down and shake all the nickels out of them.

>> She's flipping the couch cushions up looking for some change. >> I'm telling you. This This is going to happen. Uh Ty is with us in Milwaukee. Hi, Ty.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh I had So, I'm new. I haven't

new to listening to your show. And um by the way, it's a it it's a great show.

>> Well, welcome. Good to have you.

>> Yeah, I had a question. So, my fiance

and I were getting married in October.

>> Good. >> Um [clears throat] we have a we have a wedding to pay for. And then we also have around we have some student loan debts as well. We have some money saved up.

>> How much do you have saved up?

>> We have about like 50 to 60,000 dollars.

>> Okay, and how much are we spending on the wedding?

>> Uh the wedding is going to be a little pricey. It's going to be around like that 50 to 60,000. It's going to be a big wedding, both of our dream weddings.

We both want all of our family members and friends there. So >> What's your income?

>> Uh my my personal income or my fiance's

>> Or both, yeah.

>> Uh it's around 1

I'd say 1 80. >> Yours is and what's hers?

>> Mine's Well, mine's kind of

>> No, that that's yours. You make You make 200,000 a year roughly. What does she make? >> No No, I make I make like 120.

>> Oh, and she makes 80.

>> She makes around 80 to 90. She just got a raise. >> Okay. >> Um so I think she's more >> And you guys How old are you guys?

>> We are Uh my fiance's 26 and I'm 25 turning 26.

>> Okay. You're right, [clears throat] that is a pricey wedding.

Um it is not in the range of insanity based on the fact that you have such a wonderful household income.

Okay? >> Mhm. >> So uh but it's getting close. So you need to put together a detailed project management budget for the wedding.

Because otherwise you'll have scope creep and you'll spend 70 grand.

>> Right. >> So you need to say You need to Now listen to me. You need to lay this out and say this is how much we're going to spend on the dress, this is how much we're going to spend on the orders and the reception, this is how much we're going to spend on the videographer, this is how much we're going to spend on the venue, and and detail it out and then stick to that plan. And then put the number at the bottom. Let's call that number 50,000. That's plenty.

>> Yeah. >> And then manage to that number, and then take that 50,000 and set it in a separate account right now for the wedding.

Wedding is off the table now. Box is checked. Now we start moving with everything between now and the wedding of your income that you can free up to throw towards your debt, and she starts throwing any money she has towards her debt until you're married.

>> Okay. So, you would

pay off the wedding in cash.

>> Yeah. I Do you have 50,000? Move the 50,000 to the wedding account. That's over. It's done.

>> Yeah. >> Now we focus on the debt with all of our income, and we don't let the wedding creep above 50,000 because we manage a budget.

And the two of you sit down and plan it like two grown-ups instead of two people wanting a fairy tale because that's where people wind up spending 100 grand when they meant to spend 50. >> You got a big wedding, it just gets bigger. Mom and Dad just start throwing people on there. >> I wouldn't know anything about that.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> Jay is in San Francisco. Hi Jay, how are you? >> Good. I'm I'm well, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, how do I how do my wife and I change our mindset after we've been uh

spending uh practicing really the baby steps for so long and now we're retired and we've lived frugally and how do we

change the mindset to want to spend some of this money and uh enjoy the uh the the fruits of our our labor.

>> Good for you. So, what's your nest egg?

What's your net worth?

>> Net worth is about 2.5, about half of that in uh our home and half of it in retirement fund. >> Way to go. Way to go. And what what do you live on a year? What's it take you to live? >> Uh we uh we have a a monthly income with

uh two retirements, two uh social security and a and an annuity of about $9,400 and and we usually uh can live

pretty comfortably each month on that.

So, we don't really touch the uh the retirement fund much at all unless we're going to do a big trip or something.

>> Yeah. Well, good for you. Well done.

Very well done. How old are you guys?

>> We're 66. We've been married 44 years and been practicing the uh principles since we got married. >> Way to go. Proud of you.

Very good. And you started with nothing and you're a multi-millionaire.

>> Yes, we are. Praise God for that.

>> Yeah. Way to go. Very good. Good work.

Baby steps millionaires. All right. So, um well, a couple of things Sharon and I have learned to do.

Um, one is even though you've been living very responsibly and very adult-like for a long time, one of you is more of a spender than the other one.

>> Yes. >> Who's that?

>> Uh, that would probably be me.

>> Okay. At my house, it's me, too.

Sharon's the natural saver. Uh, when in doubt, she saves. When in doubt, I have fun. And so, um, yeah. So, you can lean

into that a little bit and say, uh, you you need to initiate some of the things, uh, that we're going to enjoy some of this $2 million.

We're 66 and, uh, one of the things we

instituted around our house is when we have an a fun idea, uh, we like a trip

or something we want to do with some of the money we worked hard for, we say, "Why wouldn't I?" >> Ooh. >> Yeah. Why wouldn't I? >> I like that.

>> You have to prove to yourself that it's a bad idea. >> you know, friends friends call up and they've got a house in, uh, in Telluride and they say, "Hey, come up and go skiing for 3 days." And we say, "Why wouldn't I?" >> Yeah. >> And we go. >> Yeah.

>> You know, and so, that kind of stuff. So, that that's a good thing way of looking at it.

a an underdeveloped or atrophied muscle.

>> Mhm. >> And so, you've got to work it out. You know, you've got to start working out that spending a little bit. You have to responsible spending muscle has to be built up. And so, when you say, "Okay, we're going to take this trip." Oh, that didn't kill us. Uh, we're going to upgrade mama's car.

Oh, that didn't kill us.

Uh, we're going to put $10,000 in, uh, each of the grandkids, uh, accounts for

their college. Oh, that didn't kill us.

When you do a few things like that, you kind of got to go, "Oh, I I didn't die from that and I'm not I'm not homeless and penniless and I've still got $2 million after I did all that, you know, and so you start to you know, your brain starts to reset and go, I can do a few things and it doesn't kill me.

>> Right. Right. >> Uh the next thing is is we increased our generosity.

>> Yes. >> Which removes any guilt from enjoying some of the money.

>> Yes. >> So, if I if I put $100,000 over here and help this situation with this ministry,

I can spend 10 or 15 on Sharon and me and not think anything about it.

>> Right. >> And so, there's kind of kind of it's not technically an offset, spiritually, morally, mathematically, it's not an offset, but it your generosity muscle seems to be attached to your spending and enjoyment muscle.

>> Yes, I appreciate that. Well, we've been fairly generous and and I think that that's not as much of an issue as just maybe going over over the top on a over the top type of vacation where we spend, you know, 30 or 35,000 on a cruise and

say, you know, it's one of those cruises where you don't have to where you have to wear something besides flip-flops, board shorts, and a tank top to dinner, you know, what I mean? >> Yep. I'm with you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and I you know, but again, 35,000,

you know, you got a million two sitting there in the 401k, it's making 120,000 a year or 150,000 a year in growth if you don't even touch the nest egg.

And so, the 30 you know, the 35,000 is not damaging you. You start spending 350,000 on something, now we got to stop and think about it. >> Yes, sir. >> But you're not that's not usually what we're talking about in these conversations. So, you know, just develop that out and say, okay, why wouldn't I why wouldn't I what happens if this goes wrong?

Uh you know, if I just burn this money in the middle of the floor, does my life really change? You can burn 35,000 in the middle of your floor, your life won't change.

>> Yes. >> And that gives me permission then to enjoy that much without because I'm not

being irresponsible.

If it if my life changes when that amount of money's burned in the middle of floor, then I'm starting to be irresponsible.

>> Yep. >> Have you and your wife sat down a nice date and started dreaming about you here's the annual plan, here's the vision for what we want to do this year and just mapped it out?

>> Uh well, we have a map for this year. It was we got invited by some friends to go on this trip for 20 27 and so that's when this all kind of came up and I thought, well >> Why wouldn't I?

There you go. Now's your chance ask that question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I love it. And what I do Jake is I'm I'm real frugal and it's hard to break me from that. What I do is I force myself in the every dollar budget to put a line item that makes me a little bit throw up a little where I go, oh gosh, I got to spend that on myself? I'm going to give that much money away? And then you guys keep each other accountable. You guys get to come up with your own.

And over time it'll be a an effing burger. You know, over time Dave [clears throat] as you spend more and more money, you go, oh that didn't hurt as bad as I thought. >> Yeah, and I'm just looking okay, I'm 66.

I got maybe what 20 years or something.

Uh how bad how bad how bad can I screw this up? You know, I really can't at this stage. >> [laughter] >> I really you know, I did so I'm like Jay, we did so much that it'd be you'd have to really concentrate to mess it up in the next 20 years, you know? >> Well, there's a part where the the compound growth in the mass takes over where you'd have a hard time spending all that before you go.

>> Uh the the the goose is laying a lot of eggs and you'd have to eat a lot of omelets in that 20 years, you know?

That that would be the thing.

Congratulations, Jay. I'm very proud of you. Tom is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey Tom, welcome to the show.

>> Hi Dave, it's nice to speak to you. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> Yeah, so my wife and I need help with a real estate decision. We've made some mistakes in the past when it comes to real estate and hoping not to make a mistake this time around. So, I'm active duty military. Uh we currently live in Kentucky.

I actually have a upcoming uh PCS. We're going to be moving to New York this summer. And this will likely be my last move before retirement. So, we're only going to be in New York for about 5 to 6 years at the most.

Uh we owe about 120. It's worth about 270.

Um um we're trying to decide whether we should just continue to rent that house or sell it and use it as a down payment to buy a house in New York. But my concern with that is the fact that we're only going to be there for such a short amount of time. I'm not sure, you know, with the current market and the uncertainty, if that's a good decision or not.

>> Well, the first we decide if we're going to buy in New York. If we're going to buy in New York, then yes, I would liquidate the San Antonio and put it as a down payment. And if you're selling, and sell the house in Kentucky if you own one there, and put it as a down payment. If you're going to buy. Now, if you're going to buy is answered by this.

Um the community that you're moving into in New York, is it a uh military-only

community or is it a community that has some military in it?

>> Yeah, so it's actually the West Point, New York. So, we have the option of living off post um and just taking that BAH, that that monthly housing allowance, and applying it towards a mortgage. Or we could live on post, in

which case we would not receive that amount of money. It would essentially be like renting while we're there.

>> Right. Okay. So, if you're off post, are

those homes only is most of the people living in those areas military?

Cuz that's a small community, isn't it?

>> Yeah, it's pretty small communities. They're kind of smaller towns and villages surrounding West Point.

>> Yeah, I thinking if you get ready to resell, you probably have a lot of competition cuz the other people that they're moving out that are military.

So, you may not get great appreciation.

Study the appreciation and study the speed of sale. If the appreciation's good and the speed of sale is good, then go ahead and buy.

But if it's if because there's a lot of competition, if it's slow to sell and

slow to appreciate, then I would not buy. >> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramsolutions.com/events

or by clicking the link in the show notes.

>> [music] >> Our scripture of the day is Psalm 84:11.

For the Lord God is a sun and shield.

The Lord bestows favor and honor. No good [music] thing does he withhold from those who walk whose walk is blameless.

Al Bernstein said, "Success is often the result of taking a misstep in the right direction." June is in Grand Rapids. Hey June, how are you?

>> Good. How are you all? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I am just calling in. Um my husband and I bought a business this year in January and I am just wondering if it is time for me to quit my corporate job and strictly just work for the business only that we purchased.

>> What's the business what's the profit on the business?

>> Um it's going to be four to five hundred thousand dollars each year.

>> This year it's tracking that already?

>> um So we have profited eighty thousand already for January and February

together and we have paid forty thousand dollars on the note so far. So we're trying to pay it off. Um we have a loan like a note through the owner.

>> What's how much is your note to the owner? >> eighty thousand Um it is seven hundred eighty thousand dollars.

>> Okay and what do you make what do you make in corporate America?

>> Seventy-five thousand.

>> Okay. Do you if you quit and go to work at the business does that lower payroll at the business?

>> So I'd be making forty-five thousand cuz I'm currently making forty-five thousand at the business now. So I am working in for both corporate >> What what are you doing in the business?

>> Um I'm doing AP and AR.

>> Okay. All right and and you have you got other people doing that as well?

>> Nope it would just be me and my husband doing it together. So he currently works for the business and we have counting and me it would be six employees.

>> Okay but my point is you're not saving the business any money by going to work there and you're not making the business any money by going to work there.

>> Correct. Yep.

>> So it's a net loss of seventy-five thousand to your household.

>> Yes. Yep. So we >> Why is it you're itching to do that?

>> Um well, we got married in 2013,

bought a house, paid that off in 3 and 1/2 years, sold it after eight, bought a

new house, paid that off in 3 years. So we're completely debt-free except for the business loan. >> Right. >> So um we have a 5 and 8-year-old. So

corporate business is just getting really, really stressful. I'm working 12, 13-hour days, not eating lunch, not

taking a break. >> So are you wanting to work part-time in the business and and stay home with the kids essentially?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> And and that's worth a $75,000 reduction in household income for you to have that. >> be [clears throat] I would I would be making 45.

>> You're making 45 now.

>> So I'm making 75 corporate and I'm making 45 out of the >> out of the business now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, so the net loss is 75,000. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You're Yeah. And so well, I mean,

you're going to be making the same money at the business and your husband's and the profit is all your both of yours and you're plowing most of the profit into debt reduction so you can clear this debt in 2 or 3 years, right?

>> Yeah. >> That's your idea.

And um >> Yeah. So >> um >> We have 15,000 in a money market account

and we have 45,000 in our savings.

>> Good. Good. Okay.

>> And 250 in retirement.

>> Okay. Yeah, I wouldn't put anything else in your retirement until you got this debt cleared, but it's a baby step six debt.

And um you know, so you're in the right place. I you know, as long as you guys are able to keep your lifestyle really, really low and reduce that 700,000 very, very quickly. I don't quite think you can do it in 2 years, but I think you could do it in three. >> That's like 260 a year toward the debt.

Little over 20 grand a month would clear this.

>> Yeah, that was our plan is to try and pay it off in 3 years. >> Yeah, I like that.

>> monthly expenses about 3,200 a month.

>> Yeah. And it changes the equation.

I'd knock a year off if you kept working.

>> Yeah. >> You could do it in 2 years if you kept working. And then so your trade-off is 1 year.

Of uh you're going to be in debt 1 year longer because you come home.

>> Okay. >> That's your that's the that you put that in one hand and put home in the other hand and there you go. That's your balancing act, right? That's the the scales of justice, so to speak, right?

What tips what tips the scales here? I think I'm coming home cuz I think you're burned out on the corporate crap.

>> I am. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I and I think you've got the margin in the Is this business really, really stable, very predictable environment?

>> Yes. Yep, my husband's working there for 15 years and the gentleman who sold it

who is selling it to us is giving us a heck of a deal on it for as much profit that as it brings in every year, I believe. >> But the the field that the I mean, what I didn't ask what the business does, but whatever the business does is a is a predictable environment for the coming 3 years.

>> Yep, it's an electric motor shop. So, do operations for factory motors that go down, you know, refrigeration motors that go down, air you know, AC units that go down. Yep. >> Yeah. Okay. All right, very cool. Yep, I

would quit.

>> Okay. >> [laughter] >> That was easy. Well, it wasn't easy, but thanks for talking it through with us. That's interesting listening to all the different variables that go into that decision and to try to say, "Okay, what would I do?" And you know, that that's that's where we are to you know, the quality of life when you've got that kind of income coming in, the quality of life starts to be a uh a big decision.

And her being able to not work 12 hours a day and not put up with the I mean, she they're using her up for 75 grand. I mean, they're they're just that's just crazy. >> it's a small portion of their now household income. So, it's an easier decision.

>> Chase is in Kansas City. Hi, Chase.

>> I'm great. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> First off, I'm So, I'm 20 years old and only making like 600 a week. I've got about 800 to my name.

I don't have a whole lot going on right now, but my dad killed himself when I was 16 and I was kind of battling my stepmom to get his pickup truck that he had cuz that was about the only thing he had to his name. I didn't get any inheritance or nothing from him, but now I've got this pickup that I put a couple grand into to get running and Kelly Blue Book says it's worth about 30 grand and I don't know if I should get rid of it or keep it.

>> You think? >> Yep.

>> No questions asked? >> Nope. >> You seem very confident. >> Yep. And it's just simply this. There's only one of those. And this is a monumental event

in the landscape of your life.

You were 16 years old and your father

committed suicide.

That's a defining episode.

And you can use it to define it for good and say I'm going to address whatever he didn't address in my life so that I go on and and I'm victorious moving forward and I'm going to go be somebody.

Uh but, if you there's only one of these trucks.

There's and so, um you don't have 30,000 in it. You don't have 30,000 in debt on it, right?

>> Yeah, no. I mean, I'm down about two grand on it, but >> Yeah. >> Like I said, I only have about 800 to my name right now. So, I mean, that would >> that's a different set of issues, okay?

Selling the truck does not fix your career problems.

>> That's yeah. >> You need to go get a career, get some work, start working like a crazy man, working 40 80 hours a week, and start getting some money coming in so you don't have to ask the question about selling this truck.

But this truck is an emotional item. And if you're the 30-year-old version of you is going to look back at the 20-year-old Chase and go, "I wish you hadn't sold that truck." >> Yeah, I think you're right.

>> That's why I decided that so quickly.

And so, but having said that, you also have got to get these other parts of your life together really quick.

And so, I mean, like by the end of the week I want you to have six jobs. I want you working like a crazy man. Where you're just All you do is work and stack cash. And then when you get a little bit of wiggle room, you can start to pick a better job and pick a career field once you get up off of survival. You're not even surviving hardly right now.

Yeah, I mean, I'm paycheck to paycheck.

>> I work at a It's like a building material delivery company. I'm making about 20 an hour.

I'm living on my own. So, I mean, I'm >> Yeah. You know what? [clears throat] Hang on.

I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assessment and his book Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I think you just need some some soul searching right now and get that purpose. >> Chase, if you're not going to go work 60 to 80 hours a week and work six jobs starting right now, you do need to sell [music] the truck.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show on the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 18. Build Wealth Faster by Understanding Opportunity Cost | March 10, 2026


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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music]

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. Open

phones here at 888-825-5225.

It's a free call [music] and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the uber popular Front Row Seat

interview show on the Ramsey Network.

He's my co-host today as we take your calls and your questions. Thank you for being here. Ray starts us off today. Hi Ray, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

First off, it's an honor to talk to you.

Um, me and my wife found you back in January. We both read The Total Money Makeover. And actually this Friday, um,

we drove to town and sold our my, uh,

dirt bike and with that check, we'll be able to pay off our auto loan and BE DEBT FREE. WOW. LOOK AT YOU, MAN. GAME

ON. We're Yeah, we're excited. Um, my question today though is about our family business. Um, so I'm a third generation farmer. Um, I'm 27 years old and we have had a

tough couple years on the farm. Uh, we've racked up about $2 million of debt um, these past 2 years and we see things getting better in the future.

Um, so we'll hopefully be making more money, you know, markets and all the other factors going into that.

But we've had to do a lot of deferring,

updating equipment, and a a of other things to make it by this to this far.

And so my question is how do we from this point on be debt free but also trying to not go back to going into debt in the future when things get tough again.

Wow.

$2 million of losses in 2 years.

Yes. Mhm.

So I guess I should say we last year we made about 12 million in revenue. Um

and you know milk markets is our main exposure to price risk. We milk quite a few cows.

And so it's very regulated on the federal milk

marketing order and so we don't really have a control over how much we get for our milk. We have mainly have control over the expenses. So we've had to go without updating equipment. We haven't been able to do a lot of different projects that we've been wanting to.

A lot of our amazing employees and guys we work with have been going with smaller pay raises these past couple years just so that we can get by and the um we've had to liquidate cattle to try and you know break even and it's been difficult.

>> we're going to want to Say that again. Why do you say getting better in the future?

Uh you know a lot of it has to do with my dad. You know I trust him a lot and

you know when we talk about you know what markets look like in the future whether it's you know ag in general or

just you know milk prices going forward we see things getting better and I trust his judgments and to be honest we've gotten as far as we have because of him and you know many

other friends that are in the similar boat as we have probably 5x times amount of debt. And they don't see a way forward and I'm grateful for what my dad has done to get us to this point. And you know, I I'm confident and trust him in that aspect and you know, I see I'm not as experienced as you can tell. I'm only 27, so I haven't seen much of life.

>> that and I appreciate your honoring your dad. That's awesome. I I am

and and I I I mean, just a blind trust of him is not what we need. We need to know have a reason that he thinks the market is going to adjust so that you can become profitable. Um and I don't know enough about it to comment on that one way or the other. So, um the the thing is I I

I mean, obviously you keep expenses down, revenues go up, the difference is called profit, right?

That's no kidding, huh? And so, as that happens, you clean up the debt first

before you do capital expansions. And uh

from this point forward, you start setting aside percentages of your profits for retained earnings, so that

you build a cash war chest. So, if the markets were to cycle down like this again in the future, they don't take you out. And um that's what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of our gross revenues of our net profits every month and set them aside as additional savings

called retained earnings.

And so, when COVID hits and we lose

uh you know, a bazillion dollars worth of revenue for a few months there, uh we don't go out of business because we're sitting on a war chest of cash.

And um that that's how you build up in the future, but of course, in order to get there, uh you've got to, you know, uh experience a turnaround in the marketplace, which again, I have no expertise to comment on that one way or the other. Yeah, we're flying blind on that. I I do want to ask a a derivative, though. What is the biggest driver of of you going into debt? Is it that lost revenue? Are the expenses are out of control? I mean, what is it?

Well, we it definitely is lost revenue.

Well, so this la- last year, my best,

you know, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but say about 12 million in revenue, whereas in some years, you know, back in I think it was 22, we made well over 16 in in revenue. So it there

is a lot of swing, especially these past couple years in in milk prices, and we've we've tried to, you know, cutting expenses, like I said, and trying to make do with, you know, the small margin that we had. >> am I hearing is so is it a drawback from consumption because of pricing?

That's caused that $4 million gap?

Well, in terms of, you know, our production has stayed pretty consistent, but you know, the in terms of pricing, it's a lot of factors. >> a price it's a government price control and then they just took the price down. Yeah. Okay. And so they'd uh drive you out of business is what they're going to do. So um Yeah, and it's it's not as competitive Right. So >> price competitive wise not in the state.

Well, and so the reason I'm digging into that, I wanted to make sure I totally understood that. Yeah, I don't know how you can have confidence, and I'm just kind of circling back to something Dave said. I think there's some wisdom there.

Um I love the uh honoring your dad, but I mean, if this is a government problem, then I wouldn't

have a ton of confidence in less the milk lobby, and I'm speaking in general terms here. I know it exists, uh but that's your only weapon to kind of fight this, or else you're stuck. And so as you're looking long term, uh and again, I don't have great knowledge of it. I can look at it from a macro standpoint, I understand it, but I would be looking at that and making sure that I know what's going on.

Am I talking to the lobbyist? Do I know what they're projecting, Dave? Because yeah, I mean, your your hope is And your dad your dad's hope is is that the pricing structure moves back up and you're in the 16 range again instead of the 12 range, which makes you profitable. You clear the 2 million and you pile cash up, so the next time this happens, you don't go into debt.

so that you can do your capital improvements with cash above your emergency funding.

You know, and so the next time you have an upswing, you use it for, you know, much more wisely. What do you do though?

And again, I'm asking you no macro level >> control over what the government does. And you know, when they're going to just set the price somewhat arbitrarily. Um

And that scares the crud out of me. I wouldn't that that as a business person Yeah. I'm going to enter into a business that I live and die based on the whim of

the latest administration? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Shoot me. Mhm. Um that scares

me to death. I don't I don't control my own destiny here. And so um the markets aren't and [music] even free market is not controlling the pricing. No. It's just a subsidy situation. So, I don't know that that you got to figure all that out and long-term you got to figure out do you want to be susceptible to this?

>> [music]

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Tom is with us in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Thanks.

Sure. What's up?

I am a master electrician working for

another master electrician for the last four or five years.

And I recently discovered that we're about 20 weeks behind on payroll. It

equates about $18,000.

I'm looking for some advice on what I

need to do here.

>> You haven't been paid in 20 weeks, but you recently discovered that?

I've I've been getting paid, but not

you know, like two pay periods in a month or three pay periods in a month, not four. And it's accumulated into Yeah, and in February, the most up-to-date pay period I have is October 4th.

Why are you just discovering this?

Well, uh that's a phenomenal question. It's definitely my fault that I have failed

to realize it for this long.

I've been building a house. I just had a baby. I got married this year, and it just uh Which would be all the more reason I counted all my paychecks.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay.

So, why is the guy not paying you what he owes you?

Well, it used to be a company of five employees, and then everybody left, and it was just him and myself.

And then he got stiffed on a $25,000 job. He put a lien on the property, but never got paid for it. And I think he just transferred that deficit from the supply stores and lines of credit to not paying me, cuz I don't charge interest.

But never bothered to discuss this with you. Correct. And when did you discover this?

I discovered it the week before last on a Thursday.

Okay. Have you found a new job yet?

Well, I'm not working for a crook. Why would you? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I I agree with you.

My biggest concern is that I file a wage claim, and he declares bankruptcy. Oh,

that's probably very likely.

Yes. Yes. >> That's not You're not going to get the money by sticking around, though.

You discovered he's a snake. Now that we've established that, we also know one thing about snakes. All they do is bite.

They don't do anything else. Don't be shocked.

And don't think the snake's going to turn into a rabbit.

It's a snake.

Leave.

That's part of the moral dilemma I've been having. >> a moral dilemma. It's common freaking sense.

Well, I I have not been working. You know, I made it clear that I don't want to work until we're paid up, but my

thought was by creating the illusion that I would continue working for him, maybe I could, you know, get get some of this money paid up before I tell him I'm leaving.

Um Okay. Let me Let me try one more time, okay? This guy doesn't pay people and he lies

about it. That's not going to change

based on any action you take.

This is a guy This is what he does. He He's a liar and a thief.

That's who he is.

The best thing you can do with liars and thieves is to distance yourself from them. So, that you don't get lied to and stolen from.

Agreed. So, I I I'm afraid, sir, you've lost your money because you didn't keep your finger on the pulse. And that's on you. It's also on him cuz he's a snake.

But, dude, you need to get a job yesterday and quit trying to figure out a way to get this snake to not be a snake. He's a snake.

Yeah, I I just think you're afraid of something. You're That's why you're doing this moral stuff and throwing these words around. That's all that is is you justifying your lack of inaction.

And you've just been two lessons you got to learn here. You have not been paying attention to what's going on, cost yourself a lot of money. Number two, you're afraid to step out. You think this guy is the only guy that's going to pay you and you're in one of the most sought-after trades there are right now.

That's right. There's a massive need There's a line around the block of people hiring master electricians. There There's such a shortage of people in the trades. Yeah.

So, you you can go get something tomorrow and you should have yesterday.

He uh He offered to transfer the titles on

some trucks and trailers to me. Do you think I just take that and run?

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Like instantly.

>> case scenario? Yeah. Yeah. I won't file a wage claim if you give me a truck and a trailer worth what uh you owe me. 100%

>> And I won't file a wage claim on you with the state. Yeah, that that he needs to do that.

And and that's redemption for his thievery.

Okay? Yeah, take them. And then hey, maybe you set up shop for yourself then.

If you got a truck and a trailer, let's go, baby. Yeah.

Yeah, that is the plan. >> That's a guy I can trust, the guy in my mirror, right?

Very true. But now, you're going to have to have someone help you with the books cuz you don't pay attention to them much.

>> [laughter] >> That's very accurate. Sorry, Tom. You walked right into it, buddy. >> [laughter] >> I love you, man. But yeah, you can be a good electrician and a bad businessman.

So, be careful if you're setting yourself up in business that you learn the business skills, too.

>> [laughter] >> Wow. Ouch.

Uh >> [sighs] >> You know what that is? That's a guy who works his butt off. That's right.

>> He works hard and he and most of everything he's gotten, he's outworked everybody else. >> Yeah. And he thought he could outwork this and and Folks, when you get in a situation like this, what you can't do and Tom's a nice guy and he's an honest guy and a good guy. We're picking at him a little bit, having some fun, but um we've all done things like he's done.

What he did is he took his personal character of high work ethic, high honor, high integrity and tried to superimpose that back on the guy who's a snake.

Cuz he thinks other people are going to be like he is.

And um you know, what that'll leave is a scar.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it already it already has. Here's the great news. I'm we until the very end of that call, we thought he was getting nothing. And and so, the lesson here is is and again, not picking on Tom, but there's fear. We didn't have time to break it down, but for him holding on and I'm going to tell you, fear of the unknown just holds so many of us up us all

calves. I've done it when we don't know what's next, right? Whether he goes out on his own or he's got to get out on the street, you will put up with things that you would not normally put up with and I'm telling you for everybody listening and watching, there's a lesson here.

He's terrified of something, maybe just change. And that's normal by the way.

Doesn't make Tom a weirdo. That's all of us. So, learn the lesson there that when we have that fear, the fact that he called us today is good. Get some insight from other people, Dave, cuz what will happen is is you get into this you know, you're in this loop that I can't >> rumination rumination, thank you, that's the word. And it's really dangerous. Can hold it back a lot of progress.

>> So, I spoke at a church yesterday and um between services go out and talk to people and all this stuff and and a guy came up and he's like, "How do you get over the fear of running your own business?" And I said, "I'll let you know." Yeah, [laughter] great statement.

Right. I mean, the editor John Johnson of Ebony magazine said uh the entrepreneur is the only person that can go from sheer terror to sheer exhilaration and back every 24 hours. >> That's right. >> And so, yeah, that that's so yeah, I got me a truck and I got me a uh uh uh a trailer, but and and and I have the skill, but now good it's scary as crap.

>> scary and I want to acknowledge that, right? >> So, yeah, you're you're you're right, too. That's very good. Well, I I tell you that's a good guy. The couple couple lessons are If you listen to this show, you can learn things. That's the idea. It's not just entertaining. >> [laughter] >> Um although Ken is quite entertaining.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> But, the uh you know, two takeaways is one, you got to pay attention what's going on. >> Yes. in detail Yeah.

>> cuz no one else is managing you but you.

That's right. And then two is don't try to make a snake into a rabbit. They're just snakes. Yeah. And so, uh just because you might be a good person doesn't mean you can expect that of other people. You you can't always expect other people to react the way you are going to react, to do what you would do in that situation cuz let me just tell you if Tom was in charge of the payroll Mhm.

the first day he couldn't make a check a payroll check, he would have been sweating Mhm. and terrified and would

have sat down and told the guy day one.

That's right. >> He would not have lied to him. He would not have hid it from him. >> No.

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Ken, which of those are you going to be in? All four, Dave. They got me in the anchor spot. So, I'm trying to keep things uh somewhat controlled You're trying to keep the Laura and Rachel in the right on the rails? It's a hard work. That'll be a lot. That's a lot to ask of one man.

>> [laughter] >> I'm excited. It's going to be fun.

Ethan's in Salt Lake City. Hey Ethan, what's up?

Hey Dave, I'm so glad it's you on the air. I've been listening to you for a little bit and I'm like, you know what?

I need a good butt chewing from Dave and I was hoping it was you today. I'm just going to leave the studio. I've never heard anybody ask for it that plainly.

Careful what you ask for.

No, I I need it.

Um so, a little bit of what's going on. I mean, I got a really great job. I mean, I make

six figures. I made about 140 last year.

Good. What do you do? Honestly, I've been really blessed. Uh, industrial refrigeration. Good for you. Well done.

Okay. So, it's yeah, a really good trade. Um, work for my dad. He takes

care of me. Um, but recently bought a house from my dad.

They moved. And he took a hit on selling the house to us, but gave us a 100,000 gift as a down

payment. And that also left us with 150k

in equity. And I was like, I I mean, this was a step up in life.

Might as well take it.

And the payments, they were like, "Oh, it'll be tight, but you should be able to do it." And my first mortgage payment come out, and we're getting ready to have a kid, and I just paid outright for the kid.

And I watched my checking account go, and I was like, "Oh." And then, How much is your mortgage payment, sir?

Uh, so, it's 3250 and about 3700 total with utilities.

Okay. Mortgage payment's not your problem, but your truck payment. How much is it?

Um, so, my I actually don't have a truck. My company pays for truck and gas

and everything. Got a car for my wife

because the other vehicle we had broke down. How much is your vehicle for your wife payment, sir?

514. Mhm.

Okay. What other debt do you have?

Um, so, recently also found

what I thought was a good investment on um, some mineral rights in Idaho. And

so, bought that. That's about 400 a month. Um that's 4,000 total there and then

I thought I was a big boy with a big boy job and um saw a bike pedal bike, but it's the Ferrari of the pedal bike world and decided >> Okay, so so you just keep going about buying and buying and buying and buying. So you have you figured out that's the problem.

I guess you have.

Yeah, I uh Yeah, so sell the pedal bike and sell the mineral rights and get yourself on a budget and stay out of restaurants and quit buying crap. Is that going to work?

Yeah, that's uh what I've been doing. I just Yeah. So what will the Ferrari bike bring?

Um so it's actually pretty good return.

Um I'm trying to sell it for 9K, which is about 5,000 under

what it should sell for, but I owe that's what I owe on it. >> you can get rid of it. Okay, what about the mineral rights?

Um so it is a lease to own, so I'm paying the guy. Um I could reach out to him and see if I can cancel our contract and see what that entails.

>> Yeah. Just say what what do what do I need to do to be out of this cuz I can't afford it. I bought a house. I got a kid on the way and I'm broke.

And I can't I got I got I got I got to get I got to have some relief here. What do I do to get out of this? Just quit paying you and lose your rights? Sure, done. You can have it I'll give them back to you. I'll sign them back today.

That's probably what it is. So um you know, you just got to work through everything like that and so what you do is you just figure out the last time something made sense and go back to that point and undo everything since then.

That's what I'm doing. Yeah, before I bought the house. Yeah, yeah, the house is probably a bit much, but I don't think it's really your problem. I think it's all the other crap.

And you don't have a plan. You're not living on a plan. You just look to see how much is in the checking account and that tells you if you're okay or not. That's not a budget. You need a budget.

You need to get on every dollar. I'll give it to you give you a free trial on it and get you started. You and your wife sit down tonight, give every dollar a name. You make freaking 140k, stay out of restaurants, don't go on vacation, get rid of the Ferrari bike in the middle rights and let's get this thing to balance. I think you can do it.

Yeah, um That's a pretty light budget.

You know, that's not bad.

Yeah. Uh just realistically, I've been on the edge of this cuz my wife we really like her car. It's really reliable for her and the kids. Well, you probably need to sell it, too.

You think I need to sell it? >> Yeah, probably.

Think if I get rid of everything >> you didn't have any payments but a house payment? I think your life would be pretty good.

Oh, it'd be amazing.

>> Okay. I think your budget would balance and all of a sudden you wouldn't have been calling Dave. So, see, you know? But you keep buying crap and just going it's going to be okay.

It's not going to be okay. You got yourself into a mess.

Yeah, uh paycheck paycheck. Is anything about that feel good to you? Does this work? I mean, you could get her a $10,000 car.

People don't die in $10,000 cars, huh?

Yeah. I don't want a couple of >> Yeah. How old are the How old are the kids?

It's got one. Uh my son's four, my daughter's two, and baby three is any day. My point is those littles don't need the nicest minivan or the latest SUV. They don't care. They're just going to throw goldfish on the carpet anyway.

And grind them in with their grimy little feet. >> We hear this all the time. It's a rationalization. You're not the only person that ever does it. Well, I've got two kids. I got a third on the way. Got to go get a car I can't afford. Nobody cares. Get your Get your old worn-out minivan that just gets you from here to there until you've got a little money piled up and then pay cash for her a little better car.

But you guys, you know, you just been acting like you're in Congress and spending money.

You got to stop it. And you know what to do. You already knew what to do before you called. And that's why you set the call up the way you did, which was kind of humorous and fun, by the way. But um but really, I mean, look in the mirror, you and your wife go grown-up time, three little babies, and stupid butt stuff has to stop.

And, you know, this is grown This is What do they What do the kids adulting?

Yeah. >> Yeah. We're adulting >> Okay, Dave, question for you. I haven't asked you this in a while.

>> What is going on in the in the mind of a human, cuz we've all done this, where there's this awesome feeling about getting the Ferrari of pedal bikes?

And and you know deep down that you can't afford it, but you still do it anyway. What's going on? They're not looking No one looks at whether they can afford it. So, what happens is when you do not have an overall plan Mhm. like a budget. Okay? And a detailed game plan

of this is what we're going to do with our money on purpose. It could be a Ferrari bike. I don't care. I mean, you can buy Whatever is in your detailed plan. When you say, "Can I afford this couch?" and you look at it as a part of your overall life plan and the numbers,

then you can tell if you can afford the couch. >> Mhm. When you're just walking through the furniture store and you're disconnected from all those other numbers, then you go, "Of course I can afford the couch. It's only, you know, whatever. It's I can of course I can afford a $9,000

battery bicycle >> Mhm. thingy, whatever." But it's the Ferrari Tesla of bicycles. But yeah.

[laughter] Probably catches on fire. But the um But yeah, I mean, but but you What it mostly is, "I can afford that boat. I can afford that." When you don't look at it as a part of a whole, and you look at it as a stand-alone thing, then you go, "I make $140,000 a year. I can afford a $10,000 thing." That would be true if

you don't look at it as a part of the overall picture. But when you plug it into the overall picture, it screams insanity.

And same thing with your car purchase, same thing with your house purchase, all these things. And you just go, "Yeah, if I didn't have anything else to think about except this one couch, sure."

But lots of time but we never do that.

And and so it's not it's compartmentalizing rather than looking holistically causes us to be insane.

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>> Patrick in New York City. Hey Patrick, what's up?

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I'm 66 years old

in relatively good health, still working. I own my own business. I have a net worth of 9.5 million dollars.

And I want to make sure it's in the right place and by the grace of God and a lot of years following Dave Ramsey from a bunch of different shipyards throughout the US.

Uh the discipline paid off. Man, you're amazing. $10 million net worth, dude.

I'm proud of you.

Yes, sir. Wow.

>> to be just to be clear, I've never lived high on a hog. I'm first generation Irish Catholic out of the Bronx. So, I'm not impressed by I heard you say Ferrari before and that sort of thing. Um I I live very simply and I'm very content.

Good for you. Good for you. How can we help you, sir? You're amazing.

Right now, I have approximately $580,000

in cash in the bank.

I have another 3.9 million in CDs with

various maturity dates. 401k's from my

corporate life in my earlier days working for people, I have approximately $3 million.

I have probably approximately $1.4 million in properties. There's no mortgages and they generate about $8,500

a month gross before any taxes and that sort of thing. I own three vehicles that are less than a year old. They're all paid for and my Dave Ramsey emergency cash fund in the proverbial cookie has about $30,000 in

cash in it. Well, plus 580 in checking.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yes, sir. And 3.9 in CDs. Okay. Wow. Way to go, man. So, how can I help again?

And I'm still working. Should Should I move that cash, that roughly $580,000 in

cash, should I bring that into I I don't really need it. I'm not trying to sound highfalutin. Should I move that into CDs? Should I put that in some other investment? I have two adult children that are self-sufficient, and obviously, please God, when my time comes, uh all of that will be done. I do have a will, but I do not have a revocable living trust or will. I trust. You don't You don't need one. Um the

Okay, I do not have that that much of a

percentage of my net worth in cash.

In CDs and cash.

Um instead of doing that, um you don't need that 3.9. You're not even using the

income off of that 3.9 or that 580, for that matter. Um and those could easily be put into something very simple, very low-key, into some mutual funds, and make you about three times more money.

Okay? And so, if you got $4 million and it earns you uh 3%, what is that? $120,000 a year?

Did I do that right? Yes, sir. Okay.

And if it doesn't earn you 3%, but it earns you 10%, that'd be like $360,000 a

year. So, that money sitting in CDs cost you a quarter million dollars last year.

Good lord. It should have been It should have been invested well.

And um so, it's something to think about. I mean, and here's the thing. If you got it in good mutual funds on the stock market goes doesn't earn what it always earns, like last year it It like ridiculous. It was crazy. I mean, we made like 26% on our money last year, but that's not real. This year we're down 5% year-to-date.

Okay? But we have a little war going on and a couple of other things.

And so but the overall market, let me look right I just pulled it up a minute ago.

It's uh no, it's down 2% year-to-date.

So, you you would have lost a little bit since January 1 after having made

ridiculous money last year. So, but the averages you're going to make way more

than you would on a CD. And I that's why I don't park that kind of money in cash

unless I'm using it for something like retained earnings here at the company. We've got substantial cash position with that. Um but in terms of my personal investment portfolio, very small percentage is actually sitting in cash.

If I'm parking money, like I've got some money right now as an example parked in a an S&P 500 fund, so just a mutual fund. And I'm going to be buying some real estate with it later.

But it it instead of leaving it in a CD and waiting to buy real estate, I'm leaving it in there earning three times more on average than I would have made on a CD while I'm waiting. Now, right now that money's lost 2% since first year. But I'm really not worried about it. It's 2% doesn't matter one way or the other cuz I'm probably not going to touch it next few months and by then, you know, I'm sure the market will be back up.

So, anyway, all that to say you've done an incredible job. I'm so proud of you. If you leave it exactly with the way it is, you're not doing anything wrong, but could you turn the knob a couple of clicks and make another two or 300,000 dollars a year on this money?

By sitting down with a Smart Investor Pro and learning about some places to park that instead of CDs and instead of in in cash cash equivalents. Patrick's going to lose a little sleep tonight off of that revelation that you gave him. But he's done so well. I mean, this is by the way >> done anything wrong. >> This is the Baby Steps Millionaire right here living on less than he makes. >> 10 millionaire. I know. Unbelievable.

Right at >> incredible. Right at 10 million. Way to go, man. I'm just so proud of it. It's great. But, this is like you did a 99 or

98% great job and all we're doing is just clicking it on that 2% so. So, nobody's criticizing you, Patrick. You got it, man. I'm If you leave it exactly the way it is, you are a stud.

>> Yeah. I'm so proud of you. Very, very well done. So, folks, here's the thing you want to think about. And this is the concept we're teaching right here.

It's called opportunity cost on your money. When you take a block of money and you put it in one thing, by definition, it cannot be in the other thing. It loses the opportunity to be in the other thing.

And so, if you take a $100,000 and you buy a car, you not only bought a car, but you lost the opportunity to invest that $100,000.

That's what opportunity cost means. So, let's say you had that $100,000 invested last year, you would have made $25,000

on it last year.

And instead, you bought a car for 100,000 that is now worth 40,000.

And so, you traded 100 for 40 instead of 100 for 100 and a quarter. That's the opportunity cost. Now, it it's okay to buy a car and they all go down in value.

Okay? I've got cars and they all go down Mine all go down in value. There's no exception to that. But, anytime you're looking at something going I'm go I not only am You were talking a while ago about making a purchase decision. When you're buying the Ferrari of bikes, what else could I have done with that money? What's the other option? What opportunity did I miss out on? And so, if you got a million dollars invested or

it's sitting in a coffee can in your backyard in cash um and it didn't make a

dime or it could have been in a growth stock mutual fund last year and would have made 250,000.

You lost the opportunity by doing the coffee can to do the 250,000. Yeah. It's great illustration.

And I actually did have a guy call in one time that had >> I remember the story. >> in a coffee can How much was it? It was not that much. It was like a half a million. But I'm like, dude, do you not understand that cash [laughter] cash in a in a steel coffee can the old

the old metal coffee cans it's going to rust >> Yep. and then bugs are going to get in there. The cash is going to actually get destroyed. >> Yeah. So when your relatives dig it up it's going to be like this little green powder. That's all that's going to be left. And and that's what you traded your half million for because you're a paranoid freak.

And so oh my god, buried literally buried it in the backyard. No kidding.

I mean whoa. Yeah, I actually know a few I know a few people that their relatives will be out there with the old metal detector looking looking through the backyard when he when the old man kicks it cuz we're know he's crazy and he buried the money back there. But you missed the opportunity. That's what you need to think about and and it's always a good thing to say gosh, if I buy a $100,000 Mercedes and 20 years later what would that $100,000 be worth and 20 years later what's that Mercedes worth?

>> Mhm. And that's the opportunity you miss

by going wonder You you missed the opportunity to drive the Mercedes by the way. If you put it all in investments and have no life. >> Yeah. So you you ought to get a good car, too. That's okay. >> Yeah. But but just think about that try not to think about the idea of the purchase or the investment as a only

this it's if I do this what am I else

could I not do?

What opportunity am I missing?

>> [music] >> And so I guess you know in modern lingo we might call it FOMO. Yeah, it's exactly right. >> the FOMO of finance is opportunity

cost. And that's what we're talking about with him. If he had that 3.9 million invested instead of sitting in CDs, he missed the opportunity to make another quarter million dollars.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, >> [music] >> number one best-selling author is my co-host today. The number is 888-825-5225,

and she's in Chicago. Hi, Angie. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um well, I just wanted to get some advice. My husband and I are retired.

He's 65 and I'm 70, and our home is paid

for, and so are both of our vehicles, but we have a lot of credit card debt and it's and it's open enough so that it's hard to make groceries even. So, I'm just looking for some direction. Mhm. How

much credit card debt do you have? >> part-time. Uh it's probably 35, $40,000.

Okay. And you both work part-time and you're collecting social security.

Yes, and he gets a small disability pension from the military and I have a small uh pension >> from So, when I pile all of that together, what's your monthly income?

About $3,000.

Both of you are on social security and both of you are working and both of you have a pension and you only got $3,000 coming in? Right. It's a very small [clears throat] pension. Very small social security.

>> Yeah.

Mhm. He gets 1625 and I get 1250. Total?

Right. And does that include your jobs?

Uh the jobs, I get it $400 a month and

he gets paid by the job. He does trailer repair.

Mhm. So, very Mhm.

Okay. And I And what are your cars worth?

Um my car is probably worth $5,000. He's

got a truck. It's probably worth $15,000.

Mhm. And what's your home worth?

About $300,000. Mhm.

>> [snorts] >> Okay.

Okay. And how's the how how are your how is your health and his health?

Good. We're both so far, it's good.

Good. Good. >> And I I have about $13,000 in an IRA.

Good for you. Okay.

All right. Um well, two things come to mind immediately.

One is uh you can't do this backward and expect it to work. You don't pay the credit cards first and then figure out how to eat. You eat first.

Keep the lights on first. Keep the

homeowners insurance paid first. Keep

gas in the car first, then with what's

left you pay what you can on the credit cards.

Credit cards are not first in line, they're last in line after you survive.

Okay, so it's not like after we pay our credit cards we don't have the money for groceries. No, it's after we buy groceries we don't have money for credit cards. You see the difference? >> Yeah. Yes. So that's the first thing we adjust. The second thing we adjust is I mean, you're only 65 and 70, get a job.

Well, we both are working. Part-time making nothing. Right. $400, I mean,

you're starving to death.

You're too broke to retire.

Well, that's true. Yeah.

I mean, what what if you guys went to work for a year?

Like full-time jobs and made 30 or 40,000 bucks each and you paid off all these credit cards.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah, um I thought of that. >> what you You didn't think you were going to hear that today, did you? We It's not what we wanted to >> [laughter] >> It's just a lot physically physically on us even though we're in good health. >> I'm not telling you to wait tables, but I mean, you're I'm talking to an intelligent lady that can carry on a conversation. There's a lot of customer service stuff you can do that's not physically draining.

Here's the question I have. I'm listening to your stats, Angie, and I don't think I've ever been on a call like this where I've heard somebody who has a paid-for house, paid-for cars, and you have 35 to 40,000 dollars of credit card debt. So what is the cause of that?

It's just accumulated over time. There's just always been There's just always been a lot of more expense than we had income and it just kind of accumulated and then when we couldn't buy groceries and we put it on a card or when I needed um $1,500 worth of car repairs and didn't

have $1,500 on me, I Mhm. Sure.

>> put it on a credit card, things like that. Yeah. Well, we we're going to have to spend enough more years in the workforce to reverse the trend to get your incomes up

and enough of a nest egg a little bit of a nest egg built to where it doesn't leak again down into this, but cut up the credit cards and and let's go crazy and get them paid off. I I you know, I I'm not asking you to sell your house,

but before I keep this credit card debt around 5 years, I would sell the house.

And instead, I if it's me, I'm going to I'm going to roll up my sleeves and do something and just get rid of this mess.

It's just lingering and you guys are walking around acting like you're retired and you're broke.

And and the good news is you still got your health and in today's world, 65 years old is not that old. I am and I work. So, um you know, and and at least they claim I work.

>> [laughter] >> I think I think we can call it work.

Yes. Show up pretty regularly, you know, so um you know, I Yeah, you can do that. You you can go do something. I don't know what your past career was, but go pick up a job doing that as a consultant or anything and him too.

And if you you know, again, I you don't have to go swing a hammer and you don't have to do something you know, carry a waitress tray of 800 lb or something. I'm not asking you to do that, but um but I think there's something you guys could do to generate a few thousand dollars a month and a few thousand dollars a month to make this credit card debt go away. Yeah.

It's This is not a sustainable situation. So, first thing is re-prioritize and take care of you, what we call the four walls of your house, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities before you pay any bills.

You eat first.

Then you pay bills. You don't pay bills and then hope you can eat. Then secondly, we got to get your income up to be able to address this overall issue or we got to start selling stuff to cover it and I don't think that's viable here. I don't think your house is crazy. I mean, if you're living in a million-dollar house or something, I'd probably have you move down in house and clean up this mess. But um but your house is not out of control, your cars are not out of control.

Uh thank God they're paid for.

But um your problem is you just do not have enough sustainable income to live on.

And that's what caused the credit card leakage to your point. >> right. There was a There was margin issue. So, here's why baby steps two and three are so important.

Uh you've got to get that debt paid off, but then you've got to have that three to six months of emergency fund so that you aren't tempted to solve the problem with a credit card. There just was no margin for you to be able to have a rainy day fund. It's really important at the advanced age here to have a really well-funded I know. Hey look, man, I'm not far behind, all right? I'm trying to catch you.

>> [laughter] >> But I mean, it's really true though because if you have limited income at that age and a car goes out for $1,500 and you don't have an emergency fund you fix it.

That's what they did. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's the things that we would tell you to do, kiddo. And hang on, we're going to set you up with a free offering on every dollar the app and that helps you put your budget together and you and your husband sit down and look at the numbers and the numbers are going to tell you eat first, pay bills last.

That's a short-term fix. Your long-term fix is create income to clear off these credit cards and chop them all up. Light a candle tonight and have a plastic surgery party.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Bethany is in Ashland, Kentucky. Hi

Bethany, how are you?

I am so thankful you took my call. I'm doing well, Dave. How are you guys?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my husband and I are ready to sell everything and change our entire lives.

We need your help. Okay.

Um, we started out with $750,000

in debt um, when we first started our journey and we met you.

And we've got that down to 450,000.

Well, actually 439,900

now. Way to go. That's a bunch.

It is um, it's crazy and we are just we

have this unique situation where we bought a house on 125 acres in Kentucky.

It's a beautiful farmland.

But we've always known um, we would want to build our house one day. The house that's on it is not our ideal home and I know your principle is if you don't love it, you know, um, maybe you can just consider selling it and so that's kind of where we are.

The um, the house we bought was 190,000. It was a steal.

Um, The house and acreage?

>> Yes, sir. >> That includes the 125? >> thousand. So, the house and the 125 acres was 190,000.

Yes, sir. >> you. I'm catching up. Okay. What is the 439,000 in debt?

Um, 250,000 is what is left of my husband's medical school student loans.

So, your husband's a doc.

He is and he's a great doc. Great.

What's he make?

Um, currently he makes 325 annually.

16,000 a month is his base salary.

Okay. And um you have 250 in medical and I

assume you have this mortgage or something owed on the land, is that right?

It is 162,000 outstanding. >> So that's the two debts, that's it, isn't it? That's the whole thing, isn't it? No, sir. It's 19,500 for a car. It's actually the 10-day payoff. I just called today and the 10-day payoff is 19,500 on our Honda Odyssey. We have five boys ages six and under.

>> And so the is that your only three debts?

Uh 8,400 left on a sawmill.

For a total of 49 439,900.

>> And all of this was purchased after you decided to get before you started decided to get out of debt.

Um I'd like to say that, but we got married in 2016 and that's when we moved

from Ohio to Kentucky and bought a house because the land was a steal and we we had not yet been convinced of the >> the time you started getting out of debt, did you buy a Honda Odyssey and a sawmill?

No, not since we've got this um Okay.

>> Not since we've got this Okay. So you're not you're not falling off the wagon, you're just plowing through past mistakes.

Yes, sir. We want to get out of this stuff and we're ready to sell everything.

>> you've already paid off $300,000.

Um I don't know why I mean and your mortgage is is a portion of this.

Mortgage is baby step six.

So I mean, I think you can be debt free with that great income. You should not have any personal overhead to amount anything. You pay off the sawmill and the Odyssey pretty quick and then let's tear into the medical debt and you should be done in a couple more years, shouldn't you?

Well, sir, I love that and but I'm my husband and I have been discussing this and we think that we could get 450 easy out of our house if we sold it today. Okay, then where are you going to live? >> And sold everything cuz we can sell for

we can sell the house for 450 if we put the offer for 500. We can sell the sawmill for 30k. We can sell the dozer for 30k. We can sell our car for 19.5

and buy a beater. And I just and then we're like, where are we going to live with five boys? Do we rent? Do we buy something for about 100 to 150 with whatever equity with whatever what after we sell everything, you know what I mean? All the assets. I mean, I'm talking full liquidation, go Dave Ramsey, like we are done.

Well, you know, full Dave Ramsey is not necessarily full liquidation, okay?

That's you know, we're going to liquidate with wisdom and and to accomplish the goals with that and accomplish the goal you want to accomplish. But for sure I'm selling a bulldozer and a sawmill, no question about that in a heartbeat. And if you want to move, if you don't like the property and you want to move, well, sure, you could move down and and that's not as a temporary measure, but then you're sitting there with $325,000 income and zero debt.

Right. >> Yeah, and that's okay, but just think through where you're going to live and what you're going to do. Let's not do this impulsively. I want to have a strategy.

You know, okay, my desired feature is is to be debt free. What must be true for me to get there? Well, I could sell everything. Where would I live in the meantime? Okay, what would I drive in the meantime? You got to solve for that.

If you solve for that and you and you're okay with the answer to those questions, then do it.

But it's not the only way out. You have a fabulously large income.

And you live in an area with zero cost of living.

Yeah, I I've got a question. If if if if we could just eliminate the debt, some generous person comes along and pays off the debt, would you want to stay on that property and build a really nice house where you are now?

No, sir. Um that's the the downfall about the property. There's no other house seat to build on. Okay, then sell it. >> See, that to me is the ultimate on should you sell the house? Yeah. It's not because of debt, it's because you're not going to stay there anyway. Yeah, so do it. So sell it. >> we we are rich doing this. I love it.

Listen, listen, I rented for 2 years.

>> not going to stay there. Right.

No, I think she loves the straight. >> want to build a house for sure. We want to We want my husband and I have a dream of building a business that's multi-generational impact where our boys to grow up into and it could be a family thing. >> Okay, then. So that land and this house don't figure into the equation, true or false?

That's true. Then sell it. Then sell it.

But that's that's different than >> [laughter] >> that's different. That doesn't fit into the equation for your future is different than I'm selling everything including every stinking thing I love and I'm going to cry when I sell it just to get out of debt. That's a different that's a different answer.

And so you're not doing that. You're selling stuff you're going to sell anyway cuz you're not staying there.

If you could if you win at the end of the game, you're not on that property.

And so sell it now and advance the piece around the board. Yep. That's what you're saying. Yep.

Um and yes, definitely sell the sawmill. I don't know whether you sell the stupid car or not. Again, you've got a $325,000 income. You ought to be paying that car off in a couple months and keep it if you've got it since you got a tribe of youngins to run around in a hot to see with, right?

So I don't care. You make enough money for that to not be my problem.

And three of those years are probably going to be somewhat uncomfortable.

We'll call them the adventure years.

Yeah. But with all those boys, five boys under that age group, they're going to tear it up anyway, so >> [laughter] >> just go rent, let them have some land, you know, get a ranch with plenty of room and I love this idea of now you've got this doctor who's got a huge upside,

zero debt.

Uh this is you're actually really fortunate to to be in this situation to have this land. >> Considering the mess you made, yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, I'm with you, okay. It took me a minute to catch up. I just want to make sure you're not, you know, only doing this and I do want people to get out of debt and I do want you to sacrifice to get out of debt and I do want you to do this, but I want you to do it with a plan and with a strategy, not just, you

know, Dave Ramsey said. Mhm. That's not a strategy. Yeah, that's right.

>> Okay, a strategy is I want to be debt-free for my family so that I get control of my largest wealth-building tool, which is my income, so that I can invest and change my family tree and create a generational business. >> That's exactly right. >> That you you know, you work your through your so that's. That's why you're doing it. And yeah, I just want to get there as fast as I can, she's saying.

Well, do it. Sell it.

And it's over. Pull the plug on it.

And by the way, put the go and put the sawmill and the bulldozer under the stupid column.

And put a check there.

>> [music]

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[music]

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>> Are you sick and tired of working so hard and have nothing to show for it? I feel like a rat in a wheel, Dave. Run,

run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, get nowhere.

Well, that's normal. Normal's broke. You don't want to be normal.

You want to have a different plan than that. You don't have to live that way. Our Every Dollar Budget app will help you find the extra money in the margin to start to clean up the mess and then to build wealth and increase your generosity.

Yeah, it gives you a personalized plan to beat debt and become wealthy. In 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. We know how to do it. We're going to show you how.

And then you're going to have like us in your pocket walking around like me telling you what to do, the other Ramsey personalities telling you what to do the whole time. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Amber's

in Kansas City. Hi, Amber. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I apologize I'm highly emotional.

I am in the process of getting divorced and I am terrified I'm going to lose my

home. I own this home with my daughter prior to getting married. I had a hundred thousand dollars inheritance put down

as a down payment. So, my mortgage was a hundred and eighteen thousand total.

After that, and I met my husband and um

he got the mortgage in his name only, but my name's on the deed, too.

And I found out that accidentally, um he had ran up a bunch of debt.

On the house?

Against the house and in loans and um

credit cards.

And uh Okay. The situation became very dangerous, so I got a no contact order and the judge ordered that he pay for X amount of dollars for so long and

he purposely did not pay um which got everything behind.

So what did the judge say then?

Um the only we used that as um a means to get him to sign a divorce.

Like settlement. >> You let him off so he would go away.

I No, I didn't have a choice. Yeah, you had a choice. You just chose to let him off so that he went away. I don't blame you, but that's what you chose.

Okay, so how much is owed on the house now?

214 Mhm. thousand dollars. Right. And what do you make a year, hon?

Um last year I made about 47,000 gross.

Okay. All right. I own my own business out of the home. Mhm. >> And I have somebody that's willing to help co-sign. No. Can we

You've already got a mess. You don't need to need to make it worse.

Um what's the house worth?

315,000.

Great. Okay. What other debts did you

take on to get rid of said deadbeat?

Just what he put in on this house. So 214,000.

Um but about Yeah, about 100,000 because the mortgage was 118 before >> what I mean you got a $214,000 debt now on a $300,000 house. You make $47,000 a year. All right. How's your business doing? Is it growing?

Yes. I How long has he been gone?

Um he he had to move out in July.

Okay. And you're safe now, right?

Uh um No.

Why aren't you safe now?

Because he still comes on the property. Like he's highly intelligent. He shut down my cameras.

Shut down Shut down your what? Did you call the police?

They won't do anything.

>> a no contact order. Of course they'll do something.

And you can't prove When somebody shuts down your cameras, you can't prove it.

It's What do you What is your What is your business?

I run a dog day care and boarding business and I make a lot of money compared to doing [clears throat] social work, which is what I did before. Yeah.

And this is what I'm meant to do because I've asked God Okay, kiddo, listen. Stop

Stop a second, okay?

You can't breathe because you're terrified.

So, we have to solve for

making sure that the abuser goes away or

goes to jail.

Otherwise, you have to go away and reset

your life somewhere else so that you can breathe again.

This is not sustainable. No one can live in this stress.

I I know, but it's a process because I

had a He was drugging me and raping me.

And so, I have stuff turned over to the police, but But that was all before July. He's been gone since July and the only thing since then he's cut down cameras, right?

Yes. Okay.

So, here's the thing. I can't move because I move it, the same things will happen. So, running from it isn't the answer. Why would the same thing happen?

Because he messes with the technology.

Like the other day he started with Apparently you can get an app for a sound bar. Okay, just a second. Wait a minute. Wait wait wait wait wait wait. Now now we're starting to sound Okay.

Now Okay, so um

you need to contact your attorney, you need to contact the police, and you need to contact your pastor, and you need to get some people in your corner. It sounds to me like just in the few moments I've had with you that I'm talking to a terrified lady who is dealing with extreme trauma.

That's what it sounds like to me.

It sounds like my little sister has been through hell and um now you're looking over your shoulder at every shadow.

And I really don't blame you for that cuz you've been through extreme stuff, kiddo. But it sounds like you're probably going to have to go start a fresh life somewhere else.

The good news is you know how to care for animals and you can restart a business somewhere else while you work another regular job to get that started and take your 100,000 out of this house and move cities and go somewhere else and let's just start fresh. You need a lot of distance between you and all of these events and this Do you agree with that?

Yes, but after >> And he's not he's not all powerful. He cannot find you when you just simply leave.

He's not all powerful.

He's just a

He works in IT. He's highly intelligent.

>> You've told me that three times. I don't think he's highly intelligent. I think he's a bully and an abuser and a twerp.

He's trash.

I don't care if he's highly intelligent.

He's not that intelligent.

He's got you believing he's omnipotent, but he's not omnipotent.

I'm not impressed.

You need to leave and go get you a life, kiddo. Somewhere. You got to do something different. This is not working. And you you know staying there saying he's highly intelligent and he keeps coming on your property and nobody can do anything about it is not a solution to your problem.

That exasperates the problem. So we have to throw some dynamite in this situation and something has to change.

And I don't give a crap if he thinks he's highly intelligent. I I kind of doubt it actually. I think he's got you believing a bunch of stuff that's simply not true.

He has completely got you what we call buffaloed.

But I don't blame you. You've been traumatized by the jerk and but I'm telling you if I'm you if oh wait a minute should you just say where do we go? Where do we go? Okay, so hey Amber do you not have family in the area?

Um no they they live a couple hours away. Good. Go be with family this week.

Mhm. Pack your suitcase, get your kids, call your clients and tell them you can't keep dogs this week and leave.

You need some distance between you and this.

Does that sound like something smart to you? You're going to have to take some action steps.

Okay, you get cuz your dad and your brothers need to know this so they can beat the hell out of this guy.

Somebody needs to stand up to this guy, okay? And it's not you.

Somebody needs to get between you and this and you got to get some distance between yourself. So you need to check yourself into a domestic violence shelter or you need to go be with your family tonight, right now.

Get off the phone, go pack your suitcase and go do that right now.

You got to put somebody in your in between you and this mess where you >> [music] >> where you can get start to get your perspective back.

But you have some options. They're not pretty, but you have some options.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by WhyRefi. If your private student loans are in default, it's a mess, but WhyRefi can help you clean it up.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Declan or Decklan.

Let me say that right. I think it's Decklan in California. I'm 20 years old, run my own business, and I'm on track to earn $250,000 this year. The income

isn't consistent yet, but it's growing.

I have 100,000 in savings, and my only debt is 20,000 on my current car, which is worth about 25,000. I'd like to buy a used C8 Corvette for 50,000. I could pay cash, but I was thinking about financing part of it to keep liquidity in my business and build credit. My business relies heavily on personal brand and social media.

Image and perception matter, and a car like this could help with credibility and marketing. I don't want to make a decision that looks successful, but is dumb financially. Is buying this car a reasonable move if I can afford it?

>> [laughter] >> Okay, so we have a lot in that question.

Um well, first of all, we want you to follow the baby steps, right? So, you've got 100,000 in savings, and your only debt is 20,000 on the current car. So, we need to pay that off or sell it, and

and at that point, then you're looking at the used Corvette for 50,000. The

question, Dave, I bring you in here. I know our formula on assets like a car,

which is not actually an asset, depreciates.

If it's in his business, and he can pay cash, and it's for his business, is that a viable option there? Again, assuming

he's got the cash. >> and I wouldn't buy it for that. But, if you make 250,000 a year, can you drive a $50,000 paid-for car?

>> Yeah. If you pay cash for it, yeah, you can do that. It's that simple. But, all this other crap about I'm going to I'm going to look successful or whatever. Um here's a good way to look successful. Be successful.

Yeah. And it feels like some of our life is about how you quit worrying about how you look. Um Instagram is not the real world, even if you are making your 250k on YouTube or Instagram as an influencer at 20 years

old. That scares me, but um yeah.

If your income is steady at 250 and above, you really think you're going to be making that, can you drive for to drive a $50,000 car? The answer is yes, if you pay cash for it. Right.

And so, yeah, I would sell my current car, and I would buy the Corvette for cash, but I wouldn't do anything about I wouldn't run all this credibility and marketing and all that BS through your head. Just go, "I want a Corvette." I've got the money, and it's not a big percentage of my overall world. Yeah.

know, that's okay to purchase that. Um and don't buy a new one unless you have a net worth in excess of a million dollars. Those are our three contact rules on vehicles of any kind, cars,

boats, pop-up campers, whatever else, right? And so

Yeah, so I was in a city, I'll just say, in Ohio last week. Uh, doing, you know, working. We're out there traveling. And we went by, I guess that city

they make uh, or or maybe maybe the manufacturer or something of the uh, of a RVs is there.

I've never seen so many thousands

thousands of RVs, like parked all across the side of this hillside. Wow. It just blew my mind. I thought, that is a lot of rust. >> [laughter] >> Yes. >> That is a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz every one of those stinking things is probably 100 grand. Oh, yeah. >> and [clears throat] more. And and there there was thousands of them. Where are those things going? It's just blow blew my mind. I I felt like a country boy going to town. I'm like, what are they doing with those things?

But I it's crazy. You know what's funny, they're making money on the financing of all of those. That's where the money's at. >> I guess, cuz man, they ain't it's they're sitting out there in a field rotting down, looked like to me. Oh my gosh. Really, I'm sure they're being shipped to China or something. I don't know.

Wow, crazy. Yeah, um

So, that In business, when you do anything for appearances you can write that down under the dumb column. >> [laughter] >> Uh, we don't do stuff for we do things that give return on investment in business. And trying to appear to be something is never a return on investment. Just be the thing and then people will figure out that you is the thing. Yeah, like if you're basing all of your success on the car that you put in social media Tik Toks or Instagrams.

For that matter, you don't have to spend cash on that. I'd go rent a car like that. See, that's where you start rationalizing. >> a number of these guys that are music artists and they they've they rent a jet for the day to do their video and it never leaves the ground.

>> right. Like they had a jet.

>> Such an illusion. So, play the game and has a fraction of the cost. Yeah. Julie is in Houston. Hey Julie, what's up?

Hey. Uh, we're big fans. Thanks so much for taking my call today. Thank you. How can we help? Well, okay. I have a a question about a

specific long-term care option. Um, and this is

So, it's an indexed universal life insurance policy. >> No, it sucks.

Oops. And a long- Okay, so here's the the back story is, so my husband and I are um, nearly 60. We're pretty healthy.

We're still I'm still working. Husband's semi-retired. What's your net worth?

Uh, we have about 2 million in uh, mutual funds. We have no debt. Whoever's trying to sell this to you, stay away from them.

Okay. So, we're getting a little money um, from an inheritance about $100,000.

So, that's what our question is.

For 50 for two $50,000 premiums, we

could buy this thing, um, you know, which of course if we do get sick Mhm. as 6 years of a really good

payout, or we could just put it in with

the rest of >> in with the rest of your investments.

I would If I were If I had $3 million, let me tell you, I'm 65, okay?

Um, net worth of hundreds of millions. I am not I'd have zero long-term care insurance. I want to buy long-term care insurance for people I want people that have a million dollar or less net worth to buy long-term care insurance cuz a nursing home stay is a hundred hundred and a quarter a year right now, and the average time is 2.9 years.

Yeah. So, you got a $300,000 exposure, is what you got. On average. You can self-insure that with $2 million. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just

just self-insure it. I would not I would just If he has to go to the nursing home, and by the way, he will before you on average. 75% of the ladies outlive

their husbands.

Uh yeah, well. That's the average.

>> He'll he'll he'll be a beast in a nursing home, so hopefully he won't make it. >> Yeah. Well, [laughter] you know, or maybe or maybe it's long enough that the $2 million is $10 million, and you just hire somebody to live at the house and take care of him.

Yeah. Okay. That's kind of what we were wondering. I mean, it sounded good, but

>> It isn't good. It's a piece of crap. It's whole life life insurance that you're prepaying up front, and then the supposedly the cash value will cover your long-term care insurance. You'd been much better off to just invest the money and let the interest off the money buy your own long-term care insurance.

But even better yet, in your situation, you guys can self-insure through it.

Yeah. Okay.

But long-term care insurance is excellent if you're over 60 and your net worth's under a million million and a half. >> Ah. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Okay. But that's that's But that never never never never never use life insurance as an investment. 100% of the time those policies suck. And this one sucks particularly bad.

Index universal life is one of the worst products on the market today. And it's only sold by those goobers who sell it. Everyone else in the financial world looks at it and laughs at these morons like they are the uh payday lender of the middle class.

if this is your financial planner pitching this, you need a new financial planner. I don't know who's pitching this to you.

Or Charlie over at the church, then you just need to distance Charlie to no business with Charlie at the church. This is what the crappy sweat pedals is. Hope I wasn't unclear.

Speak careful with Charlie. He's not all smiles and handshakes, folks.

>> [laughter] >> By the way, my favorite line of that is he would be a real bear to eat her cereal.

She knows I got to get a nurse for my husband. He can't He would terrorize the whole >> Nurse Ratched.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality and number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Naomi is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Naomi. How are you?

I'm Keith Smith. How are you doing, sir?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um well, I First of all, I want to thank you for taking my call. Um I have $112,000 in debt.

I have um four credit cards and I also

have a car loan and a personal loan.

Some student loans.

Um the student loans right now are deferred. I currently have To I have totally I have actually three jobs. I have two jobs that pay me about 90K a year.

And then I have another job which I'm a waitress and I make about $12,000 a year and that's cash paid. Okay. So, that's like $102,000 is your income. And you have a have $112,000 in debt. Agreed? Yes. Yes. Okay. How old

are you?

I'm 40. Okay. Are you single?

I'm a single mother, yes, of two. How old are your babies?

Uh one of them is 18, and the other one is uh seven. Okay.

All right. 18-year-old uh adding some income to this equation?

Uh he's he's starting to.

When?

Um he has a part-time job, and he's look seeking a full-time job. Yeah.

Time to be a man, my son.

Yes. Yeah.

Cuz his war is princess warrior single mom mother has helped him get all the way to 18, and now he needs to not be a burden, but instead be a blessing.

Okay. That's one thing. Okay, cool. All right. So, it sounds to me like that you've been raising two kids on your own in the Los Angeles market, and this is a very tough road, and you work your tail end off, and you feel stuck.

That is That's correct. Yeah. Currently have Um I'm going to by Friday I'm going to have $9,000 in cash. [clears throat] Um which I'm paying trying to pay a credit card off, and I have my emergency fund of a thousand dollars in euro dollar in euro money.

Euro? Why is it in euros?

Um I was stationed in the um in Europe.

And so, I brought back some money that I had myself. >> So, you were in the military?

Yes, I am. Oh, you are now?

Yes. Okay. Thank you for your service.

Okay. I will convert the euros to dollars immediately.

We're not We're not playing foreign currency. We're just trying to have a thousand dollars.

Okay? That's correct. >> And then the nine Then I'm going to list all of your debts smallest to largest, and I take it your credit cards are probably your smallest debts, correct?

That is correct. >> Yeah, so list them smallest to largest.

We're going to pay minimum payments on everything, cut up the credit cards, and get in attack mode. How much do you owe on the car?

On the car, I owe 30,000. That's a lot.

Okay. And the student loans, are they on hardship deferral?

Uh yeah, they're they're on defer um Good. Uh and they're 30,000 on that.

>> That's where they need to be right now.

Okay. So, that's 60 of your 112 is those two

things. And the And then you got a personal loan. What is that? Just at the bank or credit union or to an individual?

It was through um the credit union.

Okay. All right.

Ouch. And how much is it?

That one is I believe the is 20 24K.

Okay. All right. So, here's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

It sounds like you've kind of got this on the run a little bit. And number one, 18-year-old starts bringing some money to the table and at least carries his own weight, no pun intended. Okay.

Number two, um we're going to we'll list our debts smallest to largest and attack them in that order after we've converted the 1,000 euros into 1,000 dollars. Okay?

And that's probably going to give you a little a little extra to throw on the other things. So, we're going to list the debts smallest to largest, attack them in that order. We're going to get on an every dollar budget. Every dollar

needs to behave. What you have tried to do and have successfully somewhat successfully done is survive.

And while you were surviving, you just thought I can work hard enough and

be real careful and everything will work out, and it didn't.

You work hard. You're You work for like a crazy person. You're a hero. You took care of your kids. You're amazing. I'm so proud of you.

So, um are you getting child support on the 7-year-old?

No. Why? He makes about almost Oh, he

makes about 150 to 170,000.

And he pays zero child support.

>> Why?

Um I don't know. I'm Well, I think you should stop by the JAG office and say, "Gentlemen, I need some help." I think JAG will help him pay.

They're really good at it, by the way.

Okay. Like tomorrow.

Yes. Yeah. Give them all of his information. Say 7 years, he's never paid a dime in child support. And you know, that's what JAG's for. They're for you. They're going to help you out.

They'll take care of this. It'll be amazing how efficient they are at it.

Because I in your in the military, they do it all the time. So, you guys you know, they take care of you, and you should be taken care of. All right. So, that'll help, too. And I want you on that every dollar budget, cuz I want every dollar to behave. I want you to pretend like I hired you, and I'm paying you $100,000 a year, and your job is to get these bills paid.

And you would be you would be very detailed if I told you that, right?

That is correct. >> Yeah. And so, I'm going to give you every dollar and get you signed up for it, cuz it's going to guide you on what to do, and it's going to help you lay out every dollar has an assignment for the whole month. And I just want to commend you, Ken. I mean, to fight what she has fought for all these years, >> [clears throat] >> you know, as a single mom working her way through this, it gets lonely, and you get tired. Yeah.

Well, you got three jobs, and that didn't even count the waitressing job.

So, you got three and a half.

So, you're not not to be stopped if you've got a plan.

But, uh two things I want to circle back to. You need to take this deadbeat to

the law and make his life so miserable he starts coughing up money. Don't get weary on that. Take that warrior mindset to that. The second thing is, if you have any equity in that car, do you have any equity at all in the car? Are you upside down?

Uh I I should have equity. How much?

>> It's a It's a Toyota. I don't know. All right, here's what I want you to do, okay? Look it up because that $9,000, if

you've got some equity, pay that car off. So, I mean, sell the car rather, excuse me. Sell the car, take what's left over that 9,000 and and get yourself a functional car because that

car payment of yours is pretty big, I'm guessing. What's your monthly car payment?

Uh 740. Yeah. Ma'am, that's a 85 That's

$9,000 raise, essentially.

Sell the car and use that cash to get a

functional car. I'm just going to pay that credit cards. I agree with Ken. I just want to get you some more breathing room quickly. So, let's pretend that the $30,000 car is worth or $30,000 debt is

and the car is worth 35. If you can sell it, get that five in your hand plus this nine and buy you a $15,000 paid for car, that's a nice car. >> Yeah. >> [music] >> And now you got no car payments. Zoom, zoom, we just kicked this thing into high gear. >> Yeah. And um >> [music] >> cuz that that car is 750 bucks. Jeez.

Wow. Yeah, that's good catch, Ken. I I walked right by that. I missed it.

>> [music]

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>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But, do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro >> [music] >> in your corner that you can trust.

They'll help advise you on the best moves to make your situation for your small business or whatever. Yeah, save some big money on taxes. And if you've had big life changes in the past year, yeah, you need to think about that as well.

A divorce, a death, a new big job,

something big happened, good or negative, you need a tax pro in your corner. And especially you're running something complicated or small business.

ramsaysolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team and are Ramsey trusted. David is in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, David.

How are you? Hey, Dave and Ken. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

Well, first of all, 15 years ago, I was

uh I was in a bad place, lots of debt, more than I care to admit, but thanks to you and your team over the past 15 years, my wife and I are now in Baby Step 7. I've been on the debt-free stage, I've been on the cruise, been to your place, and uh we're Baby Steps millionaires, Way to go. I'm proud of you. Good for you, man. Along the way along the way we we've raised our kids to to

be um Ramsey kids, I guess. And so my my

oldest son, he's been married now for about a year. He and his now wife have been through the high school curriculum.

They went through Financial Peace University during their marriage counseling. Um no debt, cash-flowed

college, vehicles, everything, no debt.

Um and they've just gotten approved for their first mortgage to buy a home, um very reasonable house, and they've got $30,000 to put down, and

the mortgage lender kind of threw us a curveball the other day, and she told them if they would take $5,000

and put it in an account and use that to

secure a $5,000 note and pay it for 6

months, that would give them some credit and potentially lower their rate by up to 1%.

And I guess I You're you're being you're being overcharged.

Okay. If you go to Churchill Mortgage and they do manual underwriting, there will not be a difference in the rate.

Okay, well, we're actually waiting on Churchill's proposal to come back now.

>> Yeah. They can do manual underwriting, no credit required. You're saying the kid has absolutely no credit at all.

Zero credit. Perfect. Yeah. Okay, so

has he he a job?

He does. Yeah, they've both have a job for a year now. Both have good jobs.

She's a school teacher, he's an engineer. >> They've been paying rent during that time? They have, yeah.

>> And they have $30,000 to put down?

Yes. >> There's no rate difference whatsoever.

Crazy. >> So the mortgage lender that you have is um incorrect for whatever reason. I'm going to be gentle.

Okay. [snorts] >> But yeah. >> All right. Well, that's good to hear. Like I said, she has applied at Churchill and she's she's waiting on that that information to come back, but that kind of threw me a curveball when I heard that. Yeah, hang on. I'll have Christian pick up and we'll make sure our team holds their hand and connects them into Churchill cuz I don't want them to do this other deal. I want them to get a good manual underwriting

mortgage loan. We do it all the time and have for decades with no credit at all.

You there's no interest rate difference.

And so this lady at a minimum is not just does not know how to do it. And so you need to get away from her.

It's that simple. So Ken George Camel

Yeah. >> and and Whitney bought their first house that way. Several John Delony bought his house that way.

Lots of other people, thousands and thousands and thousands of others, but a lot of mortgage companies don't know how to do it and I don't know what kind of hook or crook this lady's trying to pull here, but um is is scary right there.

>> want to do it either. They don't want to screw with it. But yeah.

And so um what manual underwriting is

before See, I got my real estate license in 1978.

Before there was a FICO score

the banks actually used to do an analysis of the individual in detail to figure out if they could pay the freaking bill.

It's called underwriting.

And so they would send out when I I write a contract in a in 1978, 1982,

they would mail out a VOD, a verification of deposit to the local bank, and the bank would verify that the $30,000 is in the bank. They would mail out a VOE, snail mail, a verification of employment to their employer, and he would send back a this how much they make, this how long they've been working here. And they would send they would mail out uh to any creditors, uh a landlord, and get a uh a record on how they actually paid their rent. That's called underwriting loan, and you're doing an analysis of the person's life to see if the indications are that they can pay the bill.

You have their income, you have their track record with their rent, you have their down payment verified, you do all of those things, and that's how loans used to be written. And then along comes FICO, and uh and FICO's like a monkey can make this loan. It's like they look at the number and go uh uh, you got the loaner. Uh uh, you don't have the loan, right?

uh, got the loan. [laughter] That's exactly what has happened here. Yeah.

And so it's just dumb. But uh this is

the ridiculous thing of FICO, and so

FICO's got way too much power. It's not that accurate to start with.

And so uh but Churchill Mortgage and a few other mortgage companies know actually know how to do manual

underwriting, which doesn't matter if you don't have a FICO score. This kid does not have a FICO score cuz you can't have a FICO score if you don't borrow money. It's the only way you can get a FICO score. A FICO score measures how much money you borrowed, how you paid it back, what type of money you borrowed, and how quickly and all that kind of stuff. It's all a it's an I love debt score.

So if you don't love debt and you haven't borrowed any money and you don't have any open accounts for a year, your FICO score will just disappear.

I haven't had one for 30-something years. Uh and so apparently I'm not here.

I'm not real. I'm a hologram.

Because I don't have a FICO score. What?

Yeah, what? Look at me. I'll be like, "Cash for stuff." It's crazy.

And so that that's you go to a mortgage company like a Churchill Mortgage that can do manual underwriting if you have no credit, zero credit. Now, if you got

bad credit, that's a different problem.

Like you haven't paid your bills on time for 2 months or 2 years, you got a different issue then.

But zero credit is a wonderful place to

be and you get the exact same rate as someone with the stupid enough to have an 800 FICO score, which means you paid the bank sometime or another 100 grand in interest cuz you've been paying and paying and paying and paying and paying, playing their game, playing the I love debt score game. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. And that that's what people get into. So this kid is second generation and doesn't have a FICO score.

That's so cool. It's cool. Well, I mean, again, dad starts paying attention to the Ramsey ways.

in that >> 15 years later he's a millionaire.

Right? >> He's a millionaire. He's a millionaire. So the son gets it. But But see, this is the whole thing that you mentioned the word game. It is a game.

These banks These They understand what they're doing. They need you paying interest. That's where they make their money. So it's a game. So we're going to create this system that everybody needs to play ball by.

Diana's in San Francisco. Hi, Diana. How are you?

Oh, I'm doing great. Um thank you for taking my call. I think you guys are um terrific. >> Thank you. How can we help today?

Um I'm 79 years old.

Um I have no debt except for my house. I

owe 125,000 at less than 3%.

I have $96,000.

I've heard you speak of stock market

um and mutual funds.

And I understand the four ways you put in. Um I I'm wanting to know actually if if I

can do something like that with with with what little I have. But my um my

initial question is gold, silver, and

you have coin, you have solids, you have paper. How are you feeling about

gold, silver?

I buy my investments, Diana, based on track record. And the track record on gold over the last 50 years is it's earned about 3% a year.

Average. Meanwhile, it takes you on a roller coaster ride that makes you want to throw up. But it averages out about 3%. So, I don't own any gold except some cufflinks. That's the only gold I've got or silver.

And so, I think I'd probably sit right where you are. If you want to move a little bit of that into some mutual funds, you could, but be very calm and very careful and learn a lot about it before you do it.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour, and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall, we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

>> [music]

>> Good friend of ours just dropped by to talk about his book Restored. Chris Brown is a pastor, author, speaker, radio personality, church leadership expert. He planted a church here in Columbia, Tennessee, just south of here, uh just a few years back. I spoke over there yesterday.

Thousands of people coming out. It's an incredible young church exploding. It's kind of like Ken's, kind of like going to a youth conference. A lot of young people.

>> a lot of fun. The praise and worship is a blast. It's a lot of fun. Anything but boring.

Uh and Chris and Holly have been friends of ours for 20 years. Chris was on our speaking team here for a while. So, me me and Ken and Chris have shared the stage many, many times and shared airplane seats for that matter. A lot of a lot of hours flying around all over the place and working together.

for today. And uh Chris, Ken, and I, of course, know your story. We've heard you tell the story many times from stage and heard heard you walk through what God has done in your life. But, was there a specific event in your life that made you want to tell this story now?

Actually, it was a story from from being at Ramsey Solutions. It was a story of my first time I ever spoke at Catalyst, that conference back in 2015.

That was probably my first big event, and we had a a time where we got in a in a boardroom, and we dissected the talk in front of the board, and it was super I was super stressed out about it. And uh we dissected it, and I was talking a little bit about my past, but I was not peeling off the layers and I was not vulnerable.

And uh someone spoke up in the room. I don't want to won't mention anybody, but his initials are D R D R. >> Yes, right. [laughter] Sounds familiar.

He spoke up and he said, "Hey Chris, people are going to see you on that stage and they're going to perceive something like a silver spoon kind of guy who's always had it right and you need to be more vulnerable. And I was scared to kind of pick that scab of a

traumatic childhood and uh some really bad things that have happened in my life and it was at that moment I realized that I need to be more vulnerable and more honest about my past and to steward it.

Yeah, I you know, you know our audience well, Chris. You know some of the emotions. You know the stories all too well. And inevitably, there are a lot of people right now watching and listening to you and they're in some deep pain. Yeah. You know, maybe some relationships stuff that is causing to make financial decisions that are causing more pain.

Whatever it is. To the person who is in the middle of it feels almost like it's unbearable. What would you say to them?

Yeah, and actually a lot of the book I I kept this audience in mind because being on this show is a call after call of mistakes of shame, of regret, of guilt,

of of money mistakes, relational mistakes. Um I would say um the goal is that we would take our pain and it would turn into somebody else's hope. I want someone to read this story and read the things that have happened in my life. It's the same thing with you, with your bankruptcy.

We hear what happened when you came out of the bankruptcy and it gives people hope of you know what I if if he can get out of that hole, then I can get out of the hole that I'm in. And so I think Proverbs 13:12 says hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life. And so the goal is to just like the mission statement here is to inject hope into people's life. And if you're listening in today and you've made some mistakes, I love this line when you're speaking and you said, "Who here has ever made a mistake in your life?" And then everyone goes, you know, raise their hand.

You know what that makes you? And you say, "13." You know, we've all made mistakes with money. And so that would be my my my prayer is that everybody listening in would say, "Hey, yeah, I have made a mistake. I can own it, but I want to steward it and maximize it for future I want to inject hope into someone else's life.

>> And sometimes the mistake you made and others sometimes it was a mistake other people made. I mean, Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That that's the situation around parents that were screwed up and family situation that was dysfunctional and all that kind of thing and it leaves you without food or it leaves you without shelter or it leaves you without comfort. And that's not that that you're a victim of that, but it's still something it's still a part of your story and it still has value.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you meant you used the word victim. And of course you guys have all heard it before we can have a victim's mentality or a victor's mentality.

The sting is going to be there in your past regardless. So it's what are you going to do with it? Are you going to suck the nutrients out of it and make sure that you use it and maximize it and leverage it? For me I'm a believer, I'm a faithful person.

So for me it's leveraging it for the kingdom, leveraging it for eternal impact. But man, all of us who made mistakes, those of you who made mistakes with money, take what you've learned, the principles you've learned and then help your neighbor, help somebody in your class, help somebody in the workplace. And that that's what the whole book's about is to like leverage whatever's happened your past. You can't change it, whether it's happened to you or you did it to yourself, and maximize that for the kingdom or maximize that for maximum impact here on this on this earth.

purpose for today. Chris Brown is our guest, local pastor, friend of ours, and a member of our team in the past, and uh we've gotten to work together all these years. So, one of the things that people ask all the time since we're people of faith, and they ask you the same thing as a pastor, I'm sure, is, "Okay, if I'm in the middle of this stink, maybe I caused some of it, maybe some of it was brought on me by other people.

Mhm. Either way, I'm in the stink.

Where's God in the stink? Mhm. Yeah. You know, the world that the the Bible says, and I believe it's in Matthew chapter 7, and I believe it just said it says, uh "There will be troubles in this world." But Jesus says, "But I have come and take heart, I have overcome the world." And so, we do have to know that there is evil, there is darkness in this world.

So, things are going to happen to you. And we have a we have a responsibility to be the light in the darkness. Uh have you heard it before, thermostat or thermometer?

So, whatever you whatever you're struggling with today, and uh you just need to know that Jesus is right there with you. That's been That's been huge for me, to know that my hope is not just in wishful thinking, but my hope is rooted in the promises of Christ. A hopeful expectation of a better tomorrow based on the promises and the character of Jesus. It's just a big difference between that and hopeful thinking.

You know, I've run into so many people that uh verified the same experience I had 30-something years ago at the darkest of moments.

strange peace anyway.

>> It's like, I this does not even make sense that I'm that I have less anxiety, Mhm. and I have no idea how I'm going to get out of this. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And and what it's going to look like. But here I sit at the bottom with a baby, and a marriage hanging on by a thread, bankrupt, and I have no idea what all this is going to happen, of course. But I remember distinctly sitting there having this peace that passes understanding. >> Yes.

Yes. It's just And it's strange, and and And I think that's God just showing up and going, "You're going to be okay." And even if your brain doesn't tell you that, it just soaks through the rest of your body and the rest of your body goes, "For some reason, I think I'm going to be okay." Yeah. Yeah.

I'm very excited about our audience checking this out. But one of the things that we humans have to face in the process of healing is dealing with shame. Yeah. >> Shame is such a powerful emotion, even years later.

>> Mhm. How did you unlearn shame if if I could word it that way or or what would your response be to someone who's just kind of wallowing in some shame? Yeah, I think you shame is just I think it's a gap between your expectations and what actually was reality. So, I think for all of us, we just need to understand that we are going to make mistakes.

So, when you make one, you're not shocked. It's just it's not if you're going to make a mistake, it's when and how big is it going to be because we are fallen humans. Romans 3:23 says that that all of us have fallen short of the glory of God.

Uh so, that that's that fell off of me really really fast that way. And then, anytime that you're helping other people, it helps reduce the shame because now you've leveraged something out of it. The Bible says in Proverbs 11:25, "Those who refresh others

themselves are refreshed." And so, for me, I've used even my bankruptcy uh that happened in the recession in 2007-2008.

Uh I've used that to take biblical principles that I've learned from Dave and learned from Ramsey Solutions. And I've tried to like just maximize everything I learned as I clawed and clawed out of bankruptcy uh to be successful with money again and try to try to restore that shame. So, the refreshment now just trumps the shame.

>> Yeah. That's good. Pastor Chris Brown, we're proud of you.

Thank you. We love you. Glad you're Glad you stopped by again today.

>> [music] >> You're welcome anytime. The book is Restored, transforming the sting of your

past into purpose for today. Be sure you

check it out.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture today, Proverbs 16:8, "Better is a little with righteousness [music] than great revenues with injustice." Albert Einstein said, "Try not to be a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value." Woo, there you go. Felicia's in Chicago.

Hi Felicia, how are you?

I am so well, Dave. It is a beautiful day and I'm on this side of the grass, so I am praising the Lord. I love it. I love it. How can we help?

All righty. So, I am a 23-year-old

blue-collar homeowner from the Midwest.

I'm in a pretty I'll say uniquely

blessed financial situation that I can't

really find many resources on just how to navigate. Um So, from age 18 to now,

really, I guess I made a lot of really dumb financial decisions. I racked up

about $15,000 in credit card debt,

bought a brand new car in 2021, got underwater in payments, and I even took out a debt consolidation loan on those credit cards. >> You did all this stuff. >> I I I did all the stuff, yeah. I'm I'm

You know, they say you you make up for the mistakes you make in your early 20s in your later 20s. I'm doing it now.

Um But I I kept using the cards on top

of paying my mortgage. And at worst, I

was over I want to say just over $25,000

in consumer Um so, in November 2025,

my mom passed away from cancer and left

my sisters and me the beneficiaries of

her life insurance policy. And I used that money to completely wipe out all of

my debt. So, um now in 2023 >> I Um no, I still have my mortgage. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Everything So, you're debt-free except the mortgage, and you make what a year? >> Yes. I make just about a little over 80,000 a year.

>> Good for you. Okay. Your question's what? >> Thank you.

Um so, I I guess my question is that

just how how should someone who just

escaped debt um, manage money

responsibly when they've never had a savings before. Mhm. Um, [snorts] I just saved my first $2,000 and I I I

kind of feel like a little kid and your mom just gave you a a $10 bill, you know? >> Yeah. Um, it's like Monopoly money and all that. I'm First and foremost, I like I would use the story that is your life as my motivation. Okay? In other words, if I misbehave

with money again, that is bringing shame to the legacy that my mom left me.

Sure. I don't want to disappoint her

if I'm you. >> Right. I never thought of it like that.

That is a fantastic way of looking at that. >> So, when you look at it and say, "I've got to do this cuz mom got me cleaned up this time, there's not going to be another one of those if I screw up again, and so I'm I need

to honor that memory, um, cherish that gift, and the way to say thank you

for it is to be a grown-up going forward. Now, then once we say that, we say, "Okay, how do we do anything well?" Well, it starts with a plan.

I mean, if you want to get in the car and leave Chicago and you say, "I want to go to Florida," you don't just start driving.

You actually load a map call on your GPS, and it starts to give you a step-by-step. First, when you leave Chicago, you're going to go to Rockford, and then you're going to or whatever, and then you're going to go to, and then you're going to go to, and then you're going to go to, and if you keep doing and then you're going to go to, you'll look up and you're in Florida.

And uh, you know, and so we're going to lay out a game plan. That's a budget.

And we're going to give you every dollar and give give you a trial run on it, where you start where you take this app and you download it and you take your income, and I want you to tell every dollar of your income what to do as if

it was your job to manage money for you incorporated.

Okay. It's your job now to be an adult,

not a child, and manage money responsibly for you incorporated. And you have to report to your boss.

You have to look at and turns out your boss happens to be in your mirror.

Okay? So, your job is to manage money for you cuz you make too stinking much money and you got this wonderful one-time get out of jail free card and you can't screw this up.

So, I've got to make this money behave, as you said, I've got to be responsible.

And I love your attitude. I think you're awesome. And I think you're going to be able to do it. I talk to some people sometimes and I can't tell if they're going to do it or not. I think you're actually going to do it. >> Mhm. I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

>> listen, let's get let's get gazelle intense in the baby steps. You know them well, so you are on your way to fulfilling baby step three, right?

So, what's the target? Is it 3 months expenses? Is it 6 [clears throat] months? What are you going to do? I'm going to write down a number. >> Write down a number and just >> money out of your income to get there.

>> That's right. And then once you get done with that, now it's 15% of that income and we're going to start investing for your future and at 23 you're going to be a multi-millionaire.

If you save 15% of your income with an $80,000 income, you're going to have 10 to 20 million dollars when you get to 65.

Oh, that is so hopeful. Oh my goodness.

>> That's the gift that's the gift your mother gave you if you're a grown-up.

Mhm. If you're a child, you'll be broke and living on social insecurity.

>> [snorts] >> Mhm.

So choose well.

>> will. Yes.

I sure will. Oh, that is fantastic.

>> You got it, kiddo. I'm proud of you. You can do this. Mhm.

So lay out a written game plan and then use the money that you find in the budget to walk right up those baby steps as Ken indicated. That is perfect for you. And And we're going to do it all in mom's memory. All to honor the free get out of jail get get out of jail free card that she gave me.

And I get I get I get a clean slate. I get grace. I get the chance to start over. I get a do-over.

Remember playing football in the backyard, you get a do-over? >> Oh, I love do-overs. You know, that's what this is. She got a do-over, man.

She gets another shot.

Ben is in Austin, Texas. Hey Ben, what's up? Doing good. How are you doing, man? Better than we deserve. What's up?

All right. Um I am

Things are going off financially 3 years ago. Wife moved out. We're going through separation. Comes with lots of lawyer fees. To help me out at one point, a friend gave me a loan for $26,000. Good

lord. Um the backup Yeah, it's This has been the most expensive thing in my life. Um that was originally backed up against my 401k. And he said, "Look, you know, why you uh is come March, you go ahead and if we need to, we'll do that." So I'm typically net cash positive unless bunch of legal stuff comes up and then all the positive that I was goes out the window.

Um So uh here's my question.

Cash uh cash out 401k and pay that off or I've been finding uh some personal loans through you know, Lending Club or SoFi and these other things that will end up costing me an extra $5,000 over the term of the loan. So if I cash out my 401k, What do you make?

Uh 110. Are you past the divorce now?

No, Yes, We are still in the thick of it. Okay. So, how are you going to cover the future legal fees?

That That's That's part of the issue.

Um I am currently um Okay. So, this guy loans you $26,000

and he wants it back before the drama is over.

You know, when when he lent it, uh

it was The The deal was you would have it back by March.

Yes, sir. And What made you think you were going to have $26,000 by March?

You know, honestly, sir, at the beginning of it, well, a couple of things. One, I thought I was going to be net positive enough to pay off most of it. Net positive on what?

Well, so, sir, typically, I'm making I'm net positive $2,000 a month.

>> Oh, you're talking about your income. You were going to make enough income to pay him back by March. When did he make the loan? >> Yes, sir. Uh September of last year. Well, honey, you're not going to make $26,000 from September to March at $2,000 a month.

Absolutely. So, so, initially, the plan was I I wasn't going to be able to pay off the full 26 by then, um but I was going to pay off a lot of it. So, um And to be honest, sir, I I was I need to pay the lawyer, and that was That was where I was at. >> are you going to pay the next lawyer?

Uh >> [laughter] >> Not sure. >> Yeah, this is a mess, dude. All right.

So, I would borrow money to keep from cashing out your 401k

because it's less interest to pay your friend off. And you guys got to slow down and do a little do a little math here before you do these deals, son. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 19. Building Wealth Is Simple (But Not Easy) | March 5, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey Show. Rachel

Cruz, number one bestselling author.

Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Thanks for joining us everybody. Steve is with us in Cleveland. Hi Steve, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, yes, I took out some loans for my business last year. uh totaling about 90,000 and I am unable to afford the

payments now of course uh went through the slow season being that we are in the

deck and carpentry uh business and so um

that was pre-taxing on uh funds and so

I'm looking to join a debt consolidation

program here that will reduce my weekly payments from $2400 down to $1,200.

I'd like to do that, but my wife asked me to call you, so here I am.

>> Okay. So, >> Oh, man. What a what a motivation to call Steve. >> Yeah. So, you borrowed $90,000 for what?

>> Uh, the deck business. I was looking to scale it. >> And you didn't?

>> Uh, no. Going into the slow season here, we did not. >> Well, I mean, you knew there was a slow season when you borrowed the $90,000.

Yes, that's correct.

I intended to spend that money on marketing, doing some home shows, uh upping our marketing budget through that time, um bringing on a salesperson,

uh just ramping up the sales and uh kind of musling through the slow season with still bringing in revenue, but uh the weekly payments um were just more than

what we could handle. uh the sales

didn't go in the same trajectory that I had planned on and uh we did very poorly

these last couple months in sales.

Okay. Well, there's a correlation between doing poorly in sales and the slow time and the fact that you dumped $90,000 in stress on top of your own head and that affects you running your business well. Uh I've been there. I remember. And it's not it's not a fun thing. So, you're really feeling this pinch hard. Um,

so what does your business make? What's your gross revenues on your business in a year?

Uh, so we're in year uh year, we're

going into year four now. Um, we went from 250,000 in uh 2024

to uh 350,000

in 2025.

Um, I'm sorry. Uh, that was that was around September here. Uh, we are we got to 440,000 at the end of 2025. We did about 100K in

sales in September.

>> Mhm. Okay.

So, the first thing is we you I hope that you've learned your lesson that borrowing money to expand your business is a dumb idea.

>> Yes. >> It's a dumb idea. >> Yeah. I don't I do not intend to do that again >> ever again. Okay, so the next time you get ready to expand expand, use your profits to expand and don't take as much home or don't expand. One of the two. Okay, those are your two options. Borrowing money very seldom works, especially in these scenarios what you described here.

So you the magic sauce you thought was marketing and some sales guy when it turns out listening to your sales numbers, you were the magic sauce. You took a business from 250 to 450 in 12 months. That's pretty freaking incredible. And so that's your answer to get out of this debt is for you to take the business and kick it in the butt and get it going. And if you hire more people to do more decks during the season, that's fine.

Um the debt conolidation loan, uh I I I

do not know, um how did you borrow the 90,000? What what kind of debt is it?

Credit cards?

No, it's uh they were uh

micro advance kind of loans. They were a

it was a uh short-term loan is what it

was. So, they were short-term loans.

>> Who do you owe the money to? >> The interest was uh there's three different creditors. Um

one is and you want me to name the creditors on here? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Um yeah, we had micro advance

>> um forward financing.

>> Mhm. >> And then we had what I thought was a debt consolidation loan uh for TE Capital. Okay. It's actually >> So it's good for it's good for America to hear these names because if you hear these names run

>> Yeah.

Have you contacted a debt consolidation company already, Steve?

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's one that I plan to

work with called um it's a coastal debt

consolidation. >> Okay. How far along are you in the process?

>> Haven't signed anything yet. >> Okay, good. >> I don't think it'll work. Okay. And because what debt consolidation companies do is they typically take credit card debt or consumerbased debt, not small business ripoff debt, and um

don't pay the payments for a period of time, destroying your credit, and then uh renegotiate based on the

fact that the loans are in default, and get a lower rate or a better payment rate. >> And that's the only way this is going to happen. They're going to put you into default. And so it's going to do to your credit the same thing a chapter 13 would do to your credit.

>> A chapter 13 bankruptcy would do the exact same thing. It'll let you renegotiate the debt payments and put them on a 5-year plan and get it where you can breathe. But it's bankruptcy.

And the debt consolidation in this case, the way this is laid out, the way these loans are laid out is that way. Um, I

wouldn't do it. Instead, what I would do is say, I'm going to look in the mirror and say the secret sauce to my business's rapid growth and success is been has always been me, not something I can buy with $90,000, and I'm going to strap a tool belt on me and about six other people, and I'm going to go build a whole bunch of decks, and I'm going to live on beans and rice, and I'm going to pay the whole thing off quickly and get

rid of it. >> Do you have any retained earnings in the business, Steve? Any cash?

Uh, no. Hardly. Not at this point. Not after a few months of making those payments of this. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When does season pick up for you? I'm assuming spring summer.

>> That's correct. Y. >> Okay. So, we're almost there. I mean, it's March. So, >> yes. >> Here in the next six. >> I'm going to start booking. I'm going to start booking stuff left and right, taking deposits, and start slamming down money on this 90K and getting rid of it.

And And I want you to be rid of it in a year. I want you to work all the time. I

want you to work so much you're about to collapse. And that is your answer

because filing bankruptcy or using a debt consolidation company, which in this case is going to sound look exactly like bankruptcy on your credit and it does for most of you by the way. You go into all these, you know, worn out, tired, retired actors telling you to get debt consolidation on some cable TV thing and then you go do it and the basically they don't pay the payments for about 6 months. you pay them and then they start settling the debts and or they start paying a payment plan on the debts, but by then you're in default on almost everything.

And so it trashes your credit. >> And if you're already at that point that you can't pay the payments and you go in default, then you could be the one to negotiate if you need to, especially with credit card companies. >> Yeah. If you want to quit paying them, you could quit paying them.

U pick out one of the three and quit paying them and let it go into default and then save up a lump sum and settle with them. But these are these were horrible loans. The whole thing, as you can tell, was a horrible idea. But the way out of it is you.

And I'd swing it.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Take care of your dad gum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. >> To just miss you.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. And for all of you who are living debtree, if you're in Baby Step 4 and beyond, we want to invite you to join us in the Western Caribbean. This is the second time we've done this. This is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and me and Sharon and all the Ramsay

personalities. 7 days in paradise enjoying poolside chats, live Q&A

sessions, lots of events and things on the ship itself and uh absolutely high-end ship. I don't do the cheap cruises. I can't stand them. This is uh this is the nice stuff for you people that have are already starting to win, right? That's how we set it up. Don't wait. The ship is already halfway full and the Neptune suites have already sold out. So, lock in your spot with a $600 deposit before it's too late. We are going, of course, in March of 27. One

year from today was when this will happen. >> So fun. So fun. >> It was a lot of fun. We did it last year. >> I know. It was great. >> Looks like we're on about an every two-year rhythm to give you an idea. And so we'd love to have you go. Just go to ramseolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. All right. Kevin is in Austin, Texas. Hi Kevin. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. So, um I don't know if you can you can hear me clearly, right? I um I'm 30 years old and I have made a few

questionable investments that, you know,

I spent most of my life saving up and getting ahead. I saved $34,000 over college and my early adulthood. And long

story short, I ended up losing everything um in penny stocks that someone I knew

suggested me to. And now I'm back at my

mom's house with my wife and she's not too happy about it. And I'm just trying to >> Did you lose your house and everything?

>> Uh I was renting an apartment.

>> Okay. Gotcha. How old are you? >> Do you not have a job?

Uh, I do. I do. I'm actually a uh manager at an In-N-Out. I don't know if you've ever been before, but uh Oh, >> we just got one here. >> They just moved into the neighborhood. But the uh the corporate office is across the street. But anyway, so the uh uh Wait a minute. You were a manager in In-N-Out when all this was happening.

Uh, no. So, I actually worked at uh I I

had a full red scholarship uh through college and I worked at Wendy's and other like fast food joints and I saved up a bunch of money.

>> $34,000.

>> Yes. >> You were not living on the $34,000 when you were doing all of this. You were living on your income, were you not?

>> No, that that was just my savings.

>> Okay. My point is this. There's no reason that you're at your mother's if you didn't lose your job. You just lost your savings.

>> Yeah. Well, the thing is I uh I have a bit of debt. I have a few different cars and I I don't have uh really enough money to

afford uh any kind of like, you know, any anything food related or going out to

have fun. And I kind of just figured because you know the the the ultimate goal is to escape the lower class. And

what I've read online is that you need to take a little bit of risk. Um I think I went the wrong way about that. But my goal is >> I think I think you read about it in the wrong place. If you read about financial stuff on TikTok, unless it's us, it sucks. So no, you didn't need to take a lot of risk. So here's the thing, honey.

You know, you have a debt problem, not a I lost money in penny stocks problem. If if you weren't using your savings to live on, you were already had

a life. And then plus or minus savings is the penny stock thing. So, we don't blame this on the penny stock. We blame this on the fact you bought a bunch of crap like cars that you can't afford to

pay on a In-N-Out manager salary,

>> right? I uh >> sell the cars.

it. I I I could definitely cons I could definitely sell I could sell the cars for sure. >> Yeah, you should have before you move in with your mother.

>> Okay. Um and then would I just be Ubering? Uh or do I get like a cheaper car? >> I thought you had a job.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I But I I have to get to work. >> Yeah, but you get a two car. You said Yeah, you said plural cars. How many cars do you have, Kevin?

>> Uh I have two cars. >> Okay. Do And they're both on payments.

Yes. >> How much do how much do you owe on them?

>> Uh, one of them I owe about 30,000, the

other one I owe about 20.

>> Okay. So, you have $50,000 in car debt.

And what is your income, sir?

>> Uh, about 60 after tax.

>> Okay. Does your wife work outside the home? >> Uh, no. No, she does. Um,

uh, it's it's complicated. I think that uh she I I kind of am a big believer of

the whole nuclear house, you know, so she takes care of >> you don't live in your mother's house if you're a believer in the nuclear house.

>> Yeah. I think I think my mentality was um that she can just help out.

>> Do you have kids to make that sacrifice?

>> Kevin, you got you guys got to work. How old are y'all?

>> Uh 30. I'm 30 years old.

>> We got We got to start working. We got to start Uh, I do not have children, sir.

>> Look, both of you get a job and both of you sell these dumb butt crazy cars and

go get you a one-bedroom apartment. Get you two $5,000 cars and then you'll have $10,000 in car debt instead of $50,000 in car debt. That is your problem. Penny

stock. That's what's causing you to be in the lower class living in your mother's basement, not penny stocks.

>> Uh, okay. That that that definitely makes sense. You lost $50,000 on these cars. You lost $30,000 on the penny stocks. >> Yes, absolutely. Um for for reference,

>> um I had seen it work in the but I'm I'm definitely not going to mess with that anymore. But I I did have a question as uh someone with all year experience if I'm not investing in like the riskier the penny stocks or uh call options or anything like that. Do you have a investment like recommendation for when

I build up? Yes, he >> does. So the tr the the number one wealth buildinging tool that you have is your income.

You have given that away to the car companies. And so in order to be able to be a a real investor and become wealthy

like the wealthy do it, you have to put your income into investments.

>> And it's not speculative and it's not high risk. And I put mine in basic

growth stock mutual funds. Okay, I'm

going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. 20 million people have read this book, and it's helped them work the baby steps to get out of debt because when you're out of debt, then you're freed up to start doing long-term >> investing. How much do you guys pay in car payments each month?

>> Um, I think about about 1,200.

>> 1,200. Okay. So, here's what's crazy.

Here's here's the mindset, okay? Instead of paying the car companies, you pay yourself at 1,200. From age 30, ready

for this? from age 30 to where you are now to 67 years old at a 12% rate of

return. If you just put this in good gross stock mutual funds and did nothing risky, paid yourself these car payments instead of the cars, you would have $9.8 million at 67.

>> And that's not speculative and it's not risky. >> That's what basic people do in a 401k.

>> Yes. And the lie, Kevin, that you're that you have in the back of your head, that's why you do these penny stocks is a get-richquick mentality. To build true wealth is actually very simple. You live on less than you make. You don't go borrow money. You pay yourself. So you are investing. You are saving. You have an emergency fund. So when something comes up, you're not running to debt.

You have the money saved. You invest.

You're generous. So there's a plan which yeah, the book TMMO, Total Money Makeover, will help with that. >> I'll send you that to try to help you. So the summation of the o overall call is this. You're feeling 90% of your

shame over the penny stocks and 10% of it on the cars. I want you to flip that.

I want 90% of your guilt or shame to be on the cars so you never do that again.

Cuz that's doing more damage to you than the penny stocks did. And then the lesson you learn from the penny stocks is you, you know, Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet's not true.

Okay. So just >> did you read that on the internet? >> Yeah, I read that on the internet. So I mean this is you know, so just got to know that most of the stuff on TikTok is a lie.

Most of this stuff it >> and if you're too Can I just say this, too? Sorry. If you're two well well-bodied adults, >> both of you should be working. >> You should be working, especially if you don't have kids, right?

And to get yourselves out of this mess and to get yourself on a financial playing field that you actually then have stability and then you can make choices of, hey, I want someone home. I don't.

That's a luxury to keep one spouse at home. >> You're living like you're making $200,000 a year >> and you're not. And so, you're going to have to adjust your expectations of how this whole thing works.

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Ken is with us in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Ken. How are you?

>> Doing great, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so uh I'm got a quick question. I want to get your thoughts on trust. Uh I'm retired. I followed your plan uh

that I actually learned from my mother, but but I've been listening to you for years and it works. >> Well, thank you. >> So now I have uh a really good net worth. Uh I have one child and he just

graduated from college and I just want to make sure that um as my wife and I pass this on to him that it's set up, you know, protected from lawsuits and others type things. And I've had friends say, "Well, you need to set up a trust." And I just want to get your thoughts on that. What's your net worth?

>> About three and a half million including the house. >> Good for you. Okay. All right. We have

um our items in u mainly in LLC's and a few

of them in trusts.

>> Okay. Uh particularly real estate. Each of our real estate properties that has substantial value, we put it in an individual LLC. So that at worst case,

you would lose that piece of property then. Okay. in if it was sued. Okay. Um

that's your worst case with that property. Um and so if you had a piece of property worth a million dollars and you got a $50 million lawsuit on it, you hand them the keys and you walk away, right? >> Um but that's your but they don't get everything else. And that's kind of your point. >> Um ultimately the thing that protects

you much much more than that is to teach

your son how to behave. You started with nothing and you've acquired enough wisdom to run

all of this. So, he could learn to do that unless he's unless he's got a mental disability of some kind, does he?

>> Uh, no. No, he's But no, he doesn't.

>> Okay. Um, is if he's just irresponsible and immature, you can't do enough to protect him from that. He's going to screw it up no matter what you do. >> Is he Ken? What's his what's his status?

>> No. No, he's not. But but he's a very kind-hearted person and you know his thoughts are more in the social work history side of the house versus my background in accounting and finance. >> Yeah. Well, I I think I think you can have some real frank discussions with him and say in order for me to leave this in your care um I you have to have

a level of wisdom on how to handle it because that's your job as the steward of this because this is God's property and I'm managing it for God. now you're going to be managing it for him later and you're going to have to do that with wisdom. I mean really that's going to be 90% of your safeguard 10% is your

structure.

>> Okay. So it kind of falls in the heading you probably have heard this before. I teach entree I teach small business people this all the time in contract law. >> If there is no contract in the world that is strong enough to not get to keep you from getting screwed by somebody who's a crook.

They're going to find a way.

Okay. >> And you can't just say, "Oh, but I had a contract. Oh, but I had a trust, >> you know." And no, I mean, he gave it all away. He screwed up and he was kindhearted and he got exploited and he got conned uh because he had a lack of wisdom. That's going to happen >> whether you have a trust or not. whether you have a trust or whether you have LLC's or no matter how you structure your risk management process unless you remove all control from him and you put

the control of all your assets in someone else's control called a trustee and he's not your son's not allowed to do anything or make any decisions and that's just not a very good life for him.

>> Yeah. Right. I can I've heard people mention that before but yeah I just don't feel I agree with you. That's not a good life for him or and it doesn't give him any responsibility either.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And how old is he now?

>> 20. >> Okay. Good. Yeah.

So I I sat down with ours when they were about that age and that's the first time they understood that we had built a net worth from having gone broke. And we said, "Look, first thing is, you know, we're Christians and so as for me and my house, we serve the Lord. This is not yours. It's not mine.

I'm managing it for God. And if you don't leave this conversation with a sense of responsibility and heaviness instead of a woohoo, I hit the lottery. When you start to see what our net worth is that someday is going to be yours, uh then you didn't I didn't do my job as your parent to this point and I didn't do my job in this conversation.

manage this wealth for the good of the family and the good of the people in the community. And one of the best elements of that is learning to manage just our life. We're not managing any of that right now, right? I mean, it's so learning to live within our own means of

the jobs that, you know, we've chosen to take on, the lifestyle, all of it.

That's where I'm going. So yeah, there there's a level of him that's going to be managing his life after college and you get to kind of be there with him in those conversations and that's kind of his practice run honestly, Ken, before he gets handed all of this that you've built. Um, >> but I I No, the answer to your overall question is I would not put it all in a trust because I don't think it's going to accomplish exactly what you're trying to accomplish for the reasons I said.

Now, is a trust for part of it possibly a good place? Yeah, probably. just from general risk management. And it depending on how your wealth is structured, maybe some LLC's and so forth.

That's true because I'm a very poor man right now. I own absolutely nothing. Even my cars are not in my name. I don't have anything in my name anymore.

It's all in the name of something else. And my wife is in charge of all that. So if she leaves, I'm going with her cuz she's got all the kids. So, you know, I mean, that's that's, you know, it's just you really can't get to we we've insulated oursel in a lawsuit happy world.

Should I, you know, I mean, everything from that to >> Well, a lot of times people want to do a trust for different reasons than Ken, okay? They want to do a trust to avoid probate. And probate is the tax that your state has. Our state has a 3% probate.

It's not much. So, it's not that big a deal. Um, and you do avoid probate by putting the stuff into a trust, but you have to move the title of everything into a trust. That's a living trust.

>> Okay? And so, you move everything in the name of a trust and you manage everything out of a trust.

So, you don't pay, you know, 40,000 bucks in taxes, which is just dumb >> because because of the effort is what >> it's too much effort. And most people don't they don't ever fund the trust. Meaning they don't ever move the title to their house into they don't move the title open the trust. You have to you have to put all the redo all the titles to everything in the name of the trust.

>> And if you don't do that the trust is sitting there empty. It doesn't have anything in it. And so you paid 5,000 bucks to some lawyer that talked you into doing this for nothing. So get a will is what you need to do.

>> Yes. >> And then at death you can form a trust or if you're doing like a massive piece of property or something like we've got a couple of pieces of property. They're hundreds of millions.

was like a 10 million. It was something it was millions and millions and millions of dollars and that was in a trust. >> Okay, that's fine. If you want to do that, that's fine.

But the problem is it's the stuff that we have in a trust in Ramsey's it's trapped. You guys aren't going to be able to sell it. Um, so the things that we're not sure you're going to want after I'm gone, uh, we've left that in just LLC's because y'all made deals some of that stuff, but there's like this property is in a trust where our offices are the campus because that you can't sell that. You got to run the office out of it.

So run the Ramsay out of it.

>> So, um, teach them while you're alive what you want them to be. And that's that's your fix for most things. Um, and

if you're trying to manage risk and while you're alive, you know, moving some stuff, we don't put more than about $5 million or a single piece of property depending on the size of what's going on into an LLC. And so, like, we've got

enough houses in an LLC gets to 5 million and then we quit. And, you know, we don't have that. We've only got about 25 houses now. We don't have as many we used to. But um we would not let the

LLC's get too big because they don't have too big a target on them then. Uh but that's a that's not a death after death thing. That's a while you're alive risk management thing. >> That's right. >> Yeah. And so but as far as after death goes, a trust is freaking forever unless

you put a termination date on it or a methodology for terminating it as part of the terms of the deal.

>> So it's um and most people don't think that through when they do this. So, >> um, I I would go to the source and fix the source first, which is training up your boy and then go from there.

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Melinda is in Phoenix. Hi Melinda. How

are you?

>> Hi. How are you doing? Can you hear me?

Okay. >> Absolutely. What's up?

>> Oh, awesome. Yay. Thank you so much. I just love what you do. and we just started Financial Peace University like two weeks ago. So, we're very new to this. >> Very cool. Well, welcome. We're glad you're here. How can we help you on your journey?

>> Well, I'm hoping you can help put out a fire with me and my husband because we've been going back and forth of this.

>> We love to settle a debate, Melinda. We are here for it.

>> Oh, that would be great. So, we are going through the steps. He is on baby step number one, which is putting $1,000 in his starter fund. I already have baby

step number one covered. I have about $6,000 in my personal savings. However,

we have a joint savings account that has

$2,500 in it. Now, I have asked my husband to not touch our joint savings cuz it just gives me like a little bit of peace of mind of being able to cover like one month's mortgage and some bills if something happened. He has said, "Well, wait a minute, Melinda. If we just take our joint savings and leave each 50/50 put into it, you take $1250.

I take $1250. Then I have baby step number one box checked and then I can go on to paying my debt off. He has a lot more debt than I do. I don't have that much, but he has a bit more. So, he's kind of eager to start paying it off.

And I'm pushing back on him saying, "No,

I want to keep our joint savings." Pretend that's not there. And you figure baby step number one out.

>> Okay. Um, in 30 years in Melinda, in 30

almost 40 years of doing this, >> the couples that do it the way you're trying to do it fail.

>> Oh, they do. He said, "Ask Dave." He's like, "Why don't you ask Dave if we can touch our joint savings?" >> So, what what what the couples that actually win and go all the way to being millionaires, when we did an actual study of millionaires, we asked them the same thing. work 100% joint. They don't

have any yours and mine, only ours. And

so I would take all the debts and put them in one list. All the savings and put it in one list. It's not your roommate, it's your husband. And that's what we've seen to be very, very successful. It has the added benefit of

creating synergy and the other added benefit of creating massive amounts of communication and values alignment

because you really have to force yourself to work together because everything's together and then there's this unity that comes in the relationship that you didn't even see coming. So consequently what we end up hearing and I first heard this I don't know decades ago. I'd be teaching Financial Peace University in a live setting and people would say, "Oh, this saved our marriage." And I'm like, "What?" Or, "It made our marriage way better." And I'm like, "What? Sex class was down the hall." I mean, come on.

And they're like, "No, you forced us to work together and align our values and have one account and one list of debts and one life.

unity in our relationship and a communication level in our relationship that we I didn't do it for that reason.

I did it because it was practical. But that I've learned later now in in retrospect all these years later that it has all these additive benefits to the marriage as well as really increases the

probability of you winning. Rachel, you get a lot of criticism when you tell people to join accounts.

>> Yeah, some people hate that. They love having their separate thing. But that's it, Melinda. I mean, there's a there's a logistical piece to this and then there's the actual benefit to the marriage that you guys are together and how much faster you guys can win. Okay, so you just threw out some numbers. I just want to use it as an example. You you have how much saved? $6,000. Did you say >> I have $6,000 saved?

>> And then you have And then you got the $2500 over on the other end, right? And then does he have any money saved? He he doesn't have it, right? He's working on his thousand. >> $25. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. How much debt do you have, Melinda?

>> I have $5,000.

>> Perfect. Okay. And then how much does he have?

>> $19,000. >> Perfect. Okay, great. So, the beautiful thing is if you if you do the baby steps the way we've said, okay, um you're

going to have your emergency fund done tonight, your debt's going to be paid off and then you guys are going to have

a th000 or two left to hit his debt. So, it'll be down to to 17,000 and you guys working together. >> What's your household income?

>> Uh well, that's why I'm not taking my savings and paying off that credit card because I literally I make more money than him. I >> No, no, we we have an income. You don't.

We have an income. >> Oh, we have Well, I literally just lost my job yesterday. So, my >> What did you used to What did you used to make?

>> Um, I 12,000 a month.

>> Okay. And what did your husband used What did your husband make?

>> He doesn't make that. He makes 4,000 a month. >> Okay. And what were you doing?

>> Um, I'm freelance, so I'm a consultant and I'm not worried about getting clients. I'll get back up to 10 12K in a

month. >> Okay. Then there's nothing to worry Do you have an issue of what of his work ethic? Melinda, >> he works Monday through Friday really hard. Um, but he's kind of like he works uh in the, you know, he work he works also with his best friend, so it's kind of like fun and play and they're building something big, but they keep saying they're going to have this big return and it's been like two years and so I think they don't have that yet.

>> So this is exhibit A when you No, no, I get it. No, listen. This is this is exactly why we say pull your money together and work together because what ends up coming out of that is life. And

what ends up coming out of that is your questioning, holding your breath, fear around what he's doing over here. And and if you guys haven't even been aligned on that or had dates of, hey, if it doesn't hit this, then we need to move on. Like nothing is aligned within

the family unit, right? He's kind of off doing his thing. You're doing your thing. And that's how you guys are living. And when you actually force yourselves to work together, some of these conversations that can be really hard but actually very beneficial to

your life and your marriage end up coming up that you have to hit head on.

>> Okay. I would suggest that you guys begin talking about this >> idea of combining all of our savings, combining all of our income, and combining all of our debts list. I would not start your total money makeover today. keep going through Financial Peace University, but I would not I would not take you down to $1,000. When you get $5,000 worth of clients back up, which is probably two or three weeks from now,

>> right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. When you get that, then push play on this and I want you to clean out the all of the savings except retirement down to $1,000 and pay off your debt and start paying on his 19, which are both now our debts and our savings and our

income and our house and our car and and

our goals for our goals for goals and our and your business that you're running is our business. and um I'm

uncomfortable. Uh I don't mind you having fun over there, but I do mind you having fun over there while you're not hitting good income goals. That's starting to bother me. And we need to talk about that out loud. >> Resilience starts to build and you know, I need to talk about the fact I'm a little bit scared right now. I just lost my biggest client and I'm down to zero.

And I don't like being there. >> And I feel like I'm doing a lot of the work. I'm putting a lot of the effort. I don't feel the same from you. And that's scary to me. I mean, all of it all say doesn't mean that it's the end of the world or anything. ending anything, but what this forces is this, like Rachel said, this tremendous level of communication and depth, >> but it's going to be you're going to have a painful three or four weeks here.

>> Because if not, the resentment, so people that just push things under the rug and they compartmentalize and say, "Well, that stuff's over here, here." The resentment starts to build up >> and then you look up 10 years from now and you're like, "We've never even have we've never even talked about this of how I've been feeling because I haven't had to because I've kept all my stuff over here." So, what that it just kind of forces kind of the junk up, which is not fun. Not fun. >> You're going to have a hard three weeks, >> but it's going to be But you're going to look back on all of this and you're going to have a Yes.

a deeper, more cohesive marriage because of it. Because of it. >> Yeah.

that. My wife Sharon has not worked outside of our home earning an income since our oldest daughter was born who's 40, but we have an excellent income. We have

a lot of assets. We have done very well.

And um I would not have been able to do it were she not keeping the home fires burning, were she not a lowmaintenance, low drama person, I would not have been able to work as hard as I've been able to work. So, it is a we and I have zero resentment that she did not do an income during that time. It was our decision for her to do that.

>> Meinda, I'm excited for y'all, though. I know you're new to all this, but honestly, I I'm pumped to to see where you guys are going to be. You're going to do amazing. You're you're a hard worker. You're a charger. I can hear it.

And you guys are going to be awesome. So, call us back if you have any other questions. >> And here's the thing. Try try it. You can always go back to the old way. Try something different.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Mike is in Boston. Hey, Mike. How are you?

>> Hey, doing good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Hey, I've got a situation uh with a solar system uh that I want to get your feedback on. I bought a home last summer uh had a solar system installed that was financed uh and warrantied through a company called Sova. Um, part of the pricing was originally inclusive of a long-term like roof penetration leak warranty and a proper production guarantee. Long story short, couple months into my home uh purchase, it started leaking. Uh, so I had to have the system removed and ultimately had the whole roof replaced.

Uh, to make matters worse, during that time, Senova went bankrupt and a company called Sunstrong took over the lease.

But unfortunately, they claim that they are not responsible for any of the warranties or guarantees going forward.

So, currently I've got about $50,000

balance on the loan and all the solar panels are in my backyard. So, I'm trying to get your feedback on what the best next steps would be. Should I just take it as a dump tax and pay it off?

Um, or would you personally have them reinstalled and just know that any future roof leak risk is something that

I'd be taking on personally?

>> Wow. What a mess.

Um, what a mess. >> Well, a couple things. I I would probably gather some information from an attorney to be sure exactly where you stand on this, but I I think you've assessed this correctly because I think the warranty was probably offered by the

company that went bankrupt. And so, the warranty is worth nothing. The lease, which is where you financed the solar panels, is a separate contract. And that money stands separate of that warrantied guarantee. although morally it shouldn't, but I think that's probably the way this is structured legally. Um,

and so, um, now I will say that

>> it's an interesting situation.

>> The the people that did buy the paper that, you know, the people that you owe the money to on this lease, they are

probably having all kinds of problems collecting on a whole bunch of this paper. In other words, this is some some bad a bad deal for them. cuz they

probably have a whole bunch of you out there. You know what I'm saying? Not necessaril not necessarily roof leaks, but everything else cuz they bought paper or they financed for a company that in turn went bankrupt and now you've got a whole bunch of dissatisfied customers don't want to pay this bill.

So, I suspect you're not the lone ranger on this. I bet you they got this every day in mass they're dealing with. So, having said that, do you have any money?

>> Yeah. I mean, in the payments like No.

Do you have any money?

Yes. >> How much money do you have?

>> I have enough to pay it off.

>> Okay. So, you have over $50,000 in cash that you could use.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I would call them and tell them I'm going to sue them because they're the only one left standing in a bad situation where my roof leaked and the solar panels are laying in the backyard.

They can come pick them up if they want them. Or we can try to settle this and

I'll give you $10,000 to pay it off and

start there and buy this note out at a

discount.

>> Yeah, >> because the note is >> it's interesting because it is a it's a loan. The original contract Yeah. The

original contract for the loan the pricing was solar plus warranty. So to the original buyer, uh the people that own the property before me, it was pack and when it was transferred to me for that matter, it was packaged as a package deal and this is the pricing.

>> So I would just loan balance. In other words, I would just say this is this whole thing's a piece of crap. You bought crappy paper. You know that you know you're not going to get paid out on it. So I'll give you $10,000 and we'll call it a day.

>> Yeah. >> You're not going to get out of that in lawyer fees cheaper than that. And then

you're going to own the solar panels and you can either throw them in the dump or you can put them back on your house. Your choice. But u but right now what

you've got is not a solar problem. You have a $50,000 problem. And I want to get rid of that. I think they're going to take a discount. I don't know if they're going to take 10. They may come back and say 20. If they do, get it in writing and write them a check and be done with them.

>> Okay. Yeah, I've got u kind of conversations ongoing. The last time I spoke with them about that, they said the price was $50,000 even today. Yeah.

Yeah, >> even though it's financed at less than 1%. >> Well, and let me help you with this. I'm going to sue you.

>> Yeah, >> I'm going to sue you and you're never going to get any of this because you people screwed me and you're one of the ones that screwed me and I'm not going to tolerate it. So, if you think you're getting $50,000 out of me, you're confused.

>> Sure. >> Because they screwed you. >> All right. For sure. I mean, that's what it feels like. >> Yeah. and you need to go see a lawyer and talk to a lawyer and find out exactly what your rights are in the state of Massachusetts. I am not a legal expert. >> Um, but this is how I would handle the business part of it and the relational part of it. And you're, you know, you're being moral. You're being honorable because you got screwed.

>> Giving them a dime for trash that's laying in your backyard is more than you should have to give them. >> Oh, with the damage, too. They should just pick up the trash and call the note off, but they're not going to.

>> Yeah. >> And it's going to cost you more than 10 grand to get in a lawsuit. Promise you.

>> Yeah, I can imagine.

>> Yeah. So, I don't want you to go there, but I really want them to believe you're going to go there.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I'll just have to >> Yeah. Double up your fist and bust them in the nose. >> Get back on the call. >> Yeah. Just bust them in the nose. Just hit them hard. I'm serious. Don't be nice. >> Do they Do they hold the loan? The company? >> Yeah. They're the ones >> Well, what happened was the paper was sold and then they went bankrupt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the new company holds the paper. But I'm saying Yeah.

>> But they bought paper that they knew was bad. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They because they bought it from a company that was going bankrupt and it screwed a bunch of other people. So is >> CL I mean they're like it's like a case study and screwing people.

>> It's not I'm sorry you got taken. It's a

mess. And then you've got to decide if you want solar on the house and whether you want the roof to leak and all that other bull stuff. That's a that's a whole another discussion as to whether or not it's going to be worth screwing with. But um might be, might not be, but

that that's that's where we get to. Wow.

What a mess. Wow. All right. Up next is

Michael in Minneapolis. Hey, Michael.

What's up? >> Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. How you guys doing? >> Great. How can we help?

>> Good. Uh just uh to say first, uh we

have no consumer debt and the only thing we have is our mortgage. It's 155,000.

It's about $1,273 a month. Uh, and to

start off, uh, I have an opportunity where I can get, uh, go back to school to be an electrician. Uh, I wanted to do that back in 2019. I left it for some dumb reason, and I got put in a weight list. Um, I now have this sales job. I'm making 65,000 a year plus commission.

I've been doing that for about a year now. And it just, we just got done with this debt, all our little debts, and it just feels like >> How much does it cost you to go to school? Uh 15 the max. 15,000.

>> Okay. And can you work while you're doing that?

>> I'm going to work part-time. Yeah. Uh my wife works full-time right now. She makes $23 an hour.

>> Uh $23 an hour.

>> She just got the job. I don't know what that >> that's not much. And so um you What are

you going to be making part-time?

>> That I I haven't looked into that. I just got this email about a week ago and it we've just been boggling our minds on this. What would happen if you went to work for an electrician's company and they paid for you to go to school while you worked for them?

>> Uh there is there is an opportunity for that. Uh that's but they're on a wait list too. I don't know how long that would be. >> I don't know where all these weight lists come from.

We have a shortage of trades everywhere in America. So I don't know whether you're trying to do a union deal and that's where your weight list is coming from. If you do, then bypass the union and just go become an electrician, son. Uh and let somebody pay you while you're doing it.

But um I think you need to pursue it but in a smarter way than you're outlining right now. >> Yeah.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

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to find the CPAs, the enrolled agents who have been vetted by the Ramsey team and are Ramsey trusted. Claire is in

Salt Lake City. Hi Claire, what's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for accepting my call. Um,

so me and my husband kind of got ourselves into a situation with a vehicle. We bought it when we were living with my mom and we thought we could afford it and now the payment is

ridiculous and we just don't know what to do about it.

>> How much is the payment?

>> It's $1,300 a month.

>> How long you've been married?

>> Um, a year.

>> Okay. $1,300 a month.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Every time it pulls, I want to cry.

>> Yeah. >> And what's the uh what's the truck what's owed on it in total?

>> We owe I want to say 52

or 58 somewhere around there.

>> Mhm. Okay. First thing you need to do is call who who's the truck financed with?

>> I honestly I don't remember.

>> Okay. call them today and find out what

the payoff is if you pay it off this month.

>> Okay. >> I think we checked it the other day and I think they said it was like 56.

>> Okay. That's that's what I was asking you what you owed on the truck.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And you weren't sure. So, you're sure you checked it the other day?

>> Yeah, we I checked it this month.

>> Okay. 56,000. Do you have any idea what the truck is worth?

>> Yeah, I checked today. It's worth like 34. >> According to who?

Kelly Blue Book >> on private sale. Trade in or what?

>> Private sale.

>> Golly, when did he get the truck?

>> How long ago? >> The truck two years ago, I want to say >> Did you have a car that was upside down and you rolled the upside down amount into this deal?

>> No, we bought when it was really high.

We bought the truck for like I don't even remember. >> What's your interest rate? That

ridiculous. I think it's 17%.

>> Okay, your 56 is not your payoff. That's not the right number. That's the balance. That's not the payoff cuz you have a a subprime loan and they're giving you the total of all your payments left. >> You're not that far upside down on this truck. >> Okay. >> Be more what? Like what?

>> What I want to know is what the payoff is today, not what the balance is today.

When you have a ripoff subprime loan, they book the loan as the total of all remaining payments. That is not your payoff. Your payoff is not the total of all the payments because it doesn't include all that interest.

>> So, your payoff is probably going to be

45. You're probably 10 in the hole, give or take. Now, what's your household income? Our

household income is I'm sorry I'm trying

to think like

56 a month.

>> Okay. And what do you make?

>> I make I'm at $20 $19 an hour.

>> And what does he what does he make?

>> He's at 2670.

>> Okay. So, so you guys bring home $5,600

that hits your account after taxes?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. And um you're working 40 hours.

>> Yeah, he works overtime though.

>> Okay. In addition to that. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right.

Okay. And I'm assuming you have no money saved.

>> We So, we've been working on the babys.

We have $1,000 saved. >> That's good. >> And we've been paying off >> other debts. He just got a big bonus.

So, we paid off a bunch of our credit cards. >> How much was that bonus?

>> It was like $3,000.

>> Good. Okay. Do you have a tax return coming or do you know?

>> I don't have a very big tax. I have like $100 coming for my tax return and he has maybe a,000. >> Okay. All right. Cuz I you desperately

need to get rid of this truck.

Completely get rid of it. And you're going to have to pay the difference to do that. There's a couple of ways to do that. want to save up, let's say your 10,000 in the hole, as an example, you'd have to have the $10,000 to put with the 34 to get the thing paid off and get rid of it. The second thing you can do is you could finance that $10,000.

>> Okay. Um I'm worried though because we live in a camp trailer and so we need the trucks to pull the camp trailer when we >> sell it all and move into an apartment.

This is killing you.

You can't keep this ridiculous butt truck and have some irrationalized reason for doing it and live in a camper.

You're dying over here.

You got sell the camper, too. What's the camper worth?

>> The camper is worth I just looked at it.

It was It's worth 54,000.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> We just bought it out of a apartment.

>> Oh my god.

And so you financed it, of course.

>> Yes. >> And you owe $54,000 on a camper.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We owe 54.

>> Okay. >> We're going to sell everything. Claire.

>> Yeah. If If I woke up in your shoes, I would sell everything in sight and I would clean up this mess. And it's going to take you a year to clean up this mess. Renting a little one-bedroom apartment. And you're going to work like crazy people all the time. and you're going to have no life and it's going to take you a while cuz you've made some really, really bad financial decisions.

This truck and this camper are the top of the list and you've got to get this off of you. 5 years from now, you're going to have two pieces of junk and still owe 40 grand.

>> Okay? >> And you still be living in a dad gum camper.

This is not a good long-term life plan.

So, >> no. So, the plan was we bought the camper because we're fixing up my dad's old house that he gave to us.

>> And then you're going to sell the camper at a loss now.

>> Yeah. >> So, you should have moved in an apartment while you're fixing up the old house instead of buying $54,000 or something that's going down in value like the toilet.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that's the plan that Yeah. So, and now you're fixing up the house with money you don't have.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. How much you putting into this house?

Well, so my dad said he would pay for most of it. Um, we haven't put anything

into it yet. >> Good. Is he living there now? >> My husband's doing >> No, he has his own house.

>> Okay. >> My husband work on the house himself.

>> Is the house going to be put in your name or is it in your name? >> Yes.

>> Already?

>> It's not in our name yet, which is why we haven't put any money in it. >> Okay. Yeah. Don't Don't put money and effort into it until it's in your name.

And you've got to you've got to start undoing some of these things. So, hun, you got y'all got a mess and I'm scared for you. So, um, but you've got to re

back up and rethink how these stories end before you enter into the story. And

so, we need to begin with the end in mind, as Steven Cvy said in the seven habits of highly effective people. And you don't buy a $54,000 camper to sleep in that's going to be worth 30 by the time you have get ready to sell it a year from now in order to fix up a house. You could have used that money to fix up the house. And so, um, you you

don't you got to quit buying things that go backward on big payments. And, um, it

it sounds like you're sacrificing in your head, but you're not sacrificing.

You made a mistake is what you did. So, you guys have got to get rid of this crap. And you know, if you can get that

house barely habitable and move into it,

>> that's what I was going to say. That's that's a that's a bright spot in the story. >> Yeah.

Okay, folks. A general rule of thumb is this. Um, not just for her, but for all

of us. If you want to be poor, here's

the formula. Buy a lot of stuff that has

wheels and motors on payments.

Boats, seedos,

four-wheelers, motorcycles, cars, trucks, trucks, trucks,

lawnmowers.

Buy a lot of stuff with motors and wheels and put payments on it and you

will be poor.

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Might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Lauren in Maryland. She said, "I'm a married woman in my 50s with $25,000 in debt that my

husband doesn't know about. I started a part-time job and I'm slowly paying it off. I grew up in a middle-ass family and my mother was always trying to save a dollar, which drove me crazy. My husband is a good man who makes about $175,000 a year.

We don't have a mortgage and have about $1.5 million in retirement. We have a healthy retirement investments and our parents have set up 529s for our children, so college is set. I like to buy nice things for myself, but I feel terrible about the way I've handled my finances.

Lauren? Um, well, to answer your question bluntly, yeah, I would come clean and and tell him about the debt.

Not only can you guys get this cleaned up together, but also carrying around a secret like that and functioning at that

level in your marriage is going to erode not only your marriage, but also you.

Um, you can't you can't carry that stuff. I mean, secrets is what erodess trust in a marriage. And so, you carrying that is not being a person of

integrity, being fully honest. And so that's going to be um that's going to be a hard a very hard conversation. You

know, people that deal with with financial infidelity. And thankfully you guys have the sounds like the margin that you're going to be able to take care of it. But man, people that get stuck with this stuff, it it it does feel like a level of betrayal sometimes

at the same level as actual infidelity going on in a marriage. Um, so I'm not

saying it's going to be easy, Lauren, but >> I kind I kind husband to be pissed cuz you lied to him.

>> So I think that, you know, I like nice things, so I lied to you. I I don't think that's okay.

>> And um and it's not okay. And and I

think you expect him to be pissed and and he should be not because of the money, but because of the deception and the lying.

And that's that's that's some serious stuff in your relationship. So yeah, you need to come clean. yesterday. Deal with whatever the consequences are. It may put you on the marriage counselor's office, which would be okay with me. Um,

then the second thing is is that you can afford nice things.

>> Yeah. >> But you can't afford to do it on a under the table. Hide the Target bags under the bed. That's not That's not funny.

This is a grown woman and you're 50 freaking years old. It's time to act like it. So yeah, you got you need to um you and your husband need to sit down and have an adequate budget for you to buy some nice things. And part of it was you grew up in a tight household where they didn't have any money. And so your husband makes $175,000 a year. You want to have a nice dress. That's okay. I want 14 nice dresses. No. Then that's something wrong with you.

>> Well, that's what I was going to say at that point. Yes. where she is. I'm like, there's there's stuff inside of you, Lauren, that's coming out sideways in the form of money.

>> Y >> for some people, it's other things that they sit there and medicate with, but some people it is it's the spending, it's the money. And so figuring out what that is for you, for yourself to get healthy is going to be a gift later on to your marriage. But yeah. >> Yeah.

You know, so we can afford to do a lot of things that we choose not to do because in our minds, they're ridiculous. But she and I, Sharon and I choose to do that together.

I don't care what they think. It's not their money. And so we just buy that because we want to and we have the money. Shut up. And so you can do that,

but you're in agreement on that amount.

And so u my wife wants to do such and such in the redecorating which is a constant budget line item. And so, uh,

you know that, but at least we know what it is and we're doing it together and it's a reasonable percentage of our world and it doesn't mess up everything else and she gets to enjoy that thing that I don't even understand. And so, um, that's okay. I can do that as a husband, she can do that as a wife, but we can be on the same page and it's a line item in our overall plan and there's room for it. And I think that's the case here.

for you.

but not by hiding them. So yeah, you need to come clean today. Uh you need to expect him to be not about the money but

about the lying for him to be really pissed. I don't know of anybody that wouldn't be. Um and and so uh you know

and you've broken trust and it may take a little while to rebuild that trust and it may take some time in a marriage counselor's office and that's okay.

>> I wouldn't mind that for y'all at all because there's a lot of stuff going on here that needs to be fixed. But >> yeah, but the way you all have been handling money as a couple has not allowed you the freedom >> to speak up and say I want to buy something. >> Yeah. And it's either that you have an issue, Lauren, that you have to live below your means and you don't like that and so you go off and do whatever you want and go charge it on credit cards.

That's your issue. But then on the flip side, he could be he could be kind of a jerk and like shaming you over every purchase. You're like, I don't want to deal with that. I'll just come over here and do my own thing, too. Right. Which is an issue, too. So, >> yeah. But the way you're handling money as a couple has partly led to this.

Either you're not speaking up or him putting his thumb on it or some of both >> somewhere in there. Taylor is in New

York City. Hi, Taylor. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. I have a quick question that I've gotten a lot of differing opinions on. Um, but basically, should I stop contributing to my 401k while I'm paying off my debt?

>> If you're working the Ramsay baby steps, there's not varying opinions. There's only one.

There's only one way to work the Ramsay baby steps. Baby step one is save $1,000. Two is temporarily stop all

investing and completely focus on your debt snowball, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one and attacking the little one with a vengeance. That is blasphemy for those

of us that know how to do math and we see that we're losing that compound interest and maybe missing out on a company match even for a short period of time. It's very hard for those of us like me that are nerds to do that. But we have found that the power of focus and complete commitment to becoming debtree by both of you, you and your husband to the point that we're stopping the 401k completely. We're stopping saving completely temporarily. That

focus, that level of intensity is what causes people to complete their get out of debt journey. Those that play footsy with it and try to do three things at once don't pull it off. ish is a wish.

>> All right. Thank you.

>> Okay. So, I don't know where you're getting varying opinions, but they're not from our materials.

>> No, no. Just people in my life who I'm like trying to figure it out.

>> Yeah. Broke broke people have a lot of opinions about money.

>> Yeah.

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

>> Thank you for calling.

It's hard. I think that's probably I think >> if your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track. >> You're doing good. >> If your if your fat friends are making fun of your diet, you're right on track.

I mean, come on. This is this you got to

stop. Think about where you're getting your information. If you're getting your your financial information off of Tik Tok, you're screwed.

>> Yeah. You know, but I will say the investing side, there are a lot of smart people that just say, "Hey, invest regard like they wouldn't say to stop it." Like we do. Yeah, nobody does.

We're the only ones. >> Yes, that's right. I know. But I and I do think that's one of the hardest parts of baby step two for people is to go in and actually pause the 401k. But there's a part of that desperation that's so emotional that actually drives Yep.

>> getting through it. Yep. >> And so that's for a lot of people that I'm missing out on the match. I'm pissed that I'm missing out missing out on some compound interest. So I'm going to drive through this debt that much faster. But here's the deal. What little bit you lose during that time, you make up for because you've now gotten muscular in

the amount that you can put towards your wealth building. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is not compound interest, it's your income.

>> And your income drives the engine of compound interest. And when you give all your income to camper payments, you can't win. >> I know. Well, and the 15% baby step four makes up for all of that. What you're saying, a lot of people just go up to their company match and that's all they do for retirement. Well, you're 3% their whole life. >> That's right. That's right. So, the 50% you'll be fine. You'll be fine, Taylor. I promise. >> You're going to You're going to be a multi-millionaire if you follow these steps exactly.

Heat. Heat.

Mandy is in Texas. Hi, Mandy. How are you? >> I'm doing well, thank you. I'm excited I get to talk to you today. >> You, too. How can we help?

>> I'm 63 and my husband is almost 66. I

retired from teaching two years ago and my husband is semi-retired in the cattle business. We both chose to uh start

social security at 62 and we have been debtree for many years but over the years we have always avoided um investing money in the stock market. We thought it was too risky so we put it in

CDs instead. And currently we have about

$765,000 in CDs ra ranging from 4% to 5%. Mhm.

>> And then two years ago, I ran across your show and learned a lot that I wish I knew a long time ago.

And um so a year and a half ago, I

decided to take a chance and with the help of of a financial advisor, I had $51,000 in a deferred retirement account and I

invested that in a growth stock mutual fund. Mhm. >> And at the end of last month, the rate of return was about 13%.

>> From 13% from when?

>> From a a year and a half, it it grew

>> in 2025. It grew 13%.

>> Uh that's what it had on the piece of paper. >> Okay. >> So, >> well, the market went up 24%. So, I think you picked a bad fund.

>> Okay. Well, >> but either way, Mandy, you're doing great. >> Anyway, either way, you're doing way you're doing way better than 4%. on the right track. >> Yes. So here here we are. I can see that

even though that might not been the best thing for a financial adviser to do for us, um I can see that growth stock

mutual funds can earn more than CDs because 13% is more than 5%.

>> Exactly. >> Um so but here's the here's my dilemma.

But we're but with us being in our 60s and having miss being in it for the long haul, we are just hesitant to move every cent that we have in those CDs into mutual funds. >> And so we want to move some >> because you like making 40,000 instead of 140,000.

>> I we're just >> Why are you hesitant?

>> Because it's all we have. I know. But I mean,

does that I mean, because you think you're going to lose it all.

>> Um I'm a I think I might need some of

it. >> Well, you can just get it out.

>> Okay. >> If you take it out of the CD, you can take it out of a mutual fund.

>> Okay. All right.

>> It's not trapped. Deferred comp is trapped, but mutual funds are not trapped. >> Okay. So, in this stage of the game, you

would suggest that we take it all out of our CDs. Are you living off of the money

from the CDs?

>> No. No, we're not. >> You're not touching it?

>> No, I haven't touched it. >> So, what would you want to take it out for?

>> Well, just in case with healthwise, we

>> Oh, so if we had a health event, we might need 100 grand.

>> Well, for maybe for nursing home or I

don't know where my kids might put me, >> but man, just like I need some money.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, so what you need to do is you're dealing with the emotion,

but what we need to do is put the reality of how a mutual fund works against that emotion and say, how does

this keep me from touch scratching that itch? Okay. So if so, for instance, if

the emotion is I'm going to lose everything, the only way a mutual fund would go completely broke is if 90 to 200 of America's top companies all became worth zero, >> which means that America is over.

>> Mhm. >> That's never happened in the history of America. The entire economy has collapsed to zero if that happens.

Because what we're saying here is General Motors, Alcoa, >> uh, all the banks, >> all the Home Depot, Apple, Tesla,

everything is worth zero.

>> Mhm. >> And then your 700 would be worth zero.

So that's illogical.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Now, do they go down sometimes?

Yes, it goes down sometimes, >> but it goes up more than it goes down, >> right? >> And so, let me just make you cry. Are you ready? >> Sure. In 2024, the market went up 26%.

In 2025, it went up 23%.

>> That means in those two years alone, you lost $400,000.

>> Your 700 would be 1.1.

>> Okay? That's what this fear has cost you. So, what I'm I'm saying that not to say you need to go do this because I said do it, but to say you need to go learn about this. You and your husband need to sit down with a Smart Vest Pro.

Go to ramiesolutions.com.

They have the heart of a teacher. Tell them I don't understand anything. You're going to have to use words that I understand. And you're going to have to teach me how these mutual funds work or I'm not putting a dime in them. And you're going to have to make me feel okay. If I need the money, I can get it.

And you're going to have to make me feel okay by showing me charts and graphs of the last hundred years that I'm not going to lose my money.

>> Right? >> You got to learn. This is learning. This is knowledge. >> Right? >> It's I've never ridden a bike. So riding a bike is scary.

>> But now once I've learned to ride a bike, then riding a bike is not scary anymore.

>> You've done a lot of things in your life that were scary before you learned how to do them, but you learned how to do them anyway. The time you learned to drive a car, the time you married that man and didn't know what that was going to be like, all that stuff, right? >> Uhhuh. Right.

You're right. >> But you've learned about it and you've got past the fear and it's been a blessing >> with the knowledge. And so sit down with a smart investor pro and learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And he needs to go too.

>> Right. Okay.

>> Yeah. That's the numbers you're missing out on. So, I want you to get and if you decide, hey, we're going to put a hundred a year in for the next seven years. We're going to wade in.

>> Okay. >> Instead of jump in, that's okay.

>> Yeah. >> You put 50 in already and you don't regret that. >> No, I don't regret that at all. But you and you guys are young enough, Mandy, to that you're going to have years decades still. >> Yeah. There's a lot a lot of time.

>> There's a million and a half dollar.

you're not 92 calling us and you're scared of the market. At that point, we'd say, "Sleep well, have peace, and enjoy your life." But you're you're young, you know, 60 >> 60 63 >> younger than me. >> 63. >> So, yeah.

Yeah. The the So, Rachel, the thing about investing for anybody, including me, including you, I is you have to

learn about it and then that keeps you from freaking out. So when uh >> well like yesterday the market dove Yep.

>> when they bombed Iran, >> the market's back >> 3 days later.

>> Okay. Those that get hurt on a roller coaster are those that jump off in the middle of the ride. So you know, and then there's going to happen there's going to be something else that happens and this year probably won't be as good as the last two years. >> I don't I am not projecting nor am I saying that mutual funds are going to produce 23 and 26%. I don't that is not

realistic. Those are two unusually good

years. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Uh but I think we're going to make more than CD rates. And you have almost every year since the stock market's been there, >> it's almost always done better than CD rates. >> I do remember 1982 CDs were 12%.

And the stock market because interest rates were 17% on houses.

>> Oh yeah. >> And CDs were 12%. And I remember my grandpa having 12% CD money market rates

and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." But that was

1982 in a highly unusual Jimmy Carter mess of the economy that we were in >> with interest rates of of real estate being we complain at our 6%. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that's but but most of my life,

most of my working life, 50 years, CD

rates have been, you know, two to 5%.

Right in there. And the stock market has been 10 to 15%. On your rates of return,

but I don't get a guarantee. No, you have a guarantee you're going to make less money. That's your guarantee. When you're in a CD, you got two guarantees.

You're not going to lose your money and you're going to make less money. I'm guaranteeing you that's going to happen.

>> Barely keeps up with inflation at that point. >> Just barely. Barely, if at all.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Michael is in Seattle.

Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> Hello. How are we doing? It's a blessing to be here. >> Honored to have you. How can we help, sir? Um, yeah. So, I'm kind of kind of at a a

force in my life here, and I'm looking for some advice on what you guys would do if you're in my situation. Currently, um, I'm on a day-to-day layoff, uh, with my company. Um, they're currently trying to get rid of about 40,000 of their workers. Um, so they're offering severance packages. Um, and where I'm stuck is do I wait the four to five years for potentially get full-time work or do I take the severance package and attempt to start an entrepreneurship as far as either um buying a house outright

and uh collecting that cash flow and starting my own company um or should I invest that into like stock markets, dividends, um that kind of mutual fund.

Um, so I'm just I'm just looking for some advice on on what you guys would do in my my shoes and where you would go.

>> Okay. So, it's fair to say the company you work for is not financially healthy if they're laying off 40,000 people, right?

>> Um, >> so the future there is not very bright.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I've been there since for eight years since I was 18, a single father of four. So, it's it's it's hard to kind of step out onto that limb.

>> Yeah. I don't care. They're pushing you out on the limb cuz they're not doing well. So, four to five years from now is not looking bright.

>> I'm I'm getting about a day or two per week. Um, >> are you hearing me? Stop. Stop. Stop. I don't feel like you're listening to me.

Okay. I'm saying your company sucks, so

the future there sucks. Do you agree with that?

>> I agree. It's It's hard to pat, you know, give up on that 100,000 a year.

Well, I know. But you're going to have to give up on it because they don't want you there anymore,

>> right? >> Yeah, I hear you. There's a few guys that are getting ready to retire. So,

I'm >> So, you're not laid off, Michael. You're just saying there's layoffs happening.

>> Um, >> but they're offering you they're offering you a severance package to leave.

>> That's correct. They're off.

>> How much? Um, it's 150,000. After Uncle Sam takes his percentage, it'll probably be around 100 grand. >> And you make 100 grand.

>> Um, potentially. Yes.

>> So, potentially. Do you make 100 grand or not? >> I'm at 70,000 a year.

>> Okay. You make 70,000 and they're offering you a h 100red to go away.

>> Correct. Okay. All right. That that's our reality. Okay. Let's deal with reality. And 100,000 is not enough to buy real estate.

realistically, okay? You're going to end up with a bunch of real estate debt. So, we're not going to do that with it. So, if you leave this company making $70,000 a year and you put $100,000 in your pocket, what would you go do for a living?

Um, as of right now, we've got a family business going. Um, so I'd probably push

into that for a little bit. Um, just kind of weighing my options. um

>> out of necessity of getting an income or because you enjoy the family business and you want to >> make that a part of your next career step?

>> Yeah, I enjoy but as of right now it is kind of a necessity with uh

>> what are you doing right now? What's your job?

>> Um I deliver um so I drive in the the commerce. I'm I'm a full-time package driver. >> Oh, >> okay. So, uh what who you who's the

family business? your parents?

>> Yeah, I'm I'm co-owner. So, my my parents, my sister and I are both uh the owners of the company. >> Do you make an income from that?

>> I do. Yeah. >> How much do you make of that?

>> Um I'm only going and helping them about once a week. So, roughly just couple

hundred bucks a week or a month.

>> Oh, just for what you're being paid, not as you're not getting the bottom line or anything? No, we we started it about a

year and a half. >> How old are you, sir? >> Okay. >> 26. >> Okay. Let's pretend that you were 26 and could do anything you wanted to do in this world.

>> Mhm. >> And you weren't allowed to do the family business and you weren't allowed to stay in the job you're in. And you could be whoever you wanted to be. What would you go do?

>> That That's a fair question, sir. Um, >> that's what you need to >> 18. All all I've known is is being a father and providing. So, it's >> all all you've known is landing in things by default rather than by plan.

>> Oh, there's a job over there. I can throw packages and I can make 78 years.

You did it for 8 years and I could feed and I could feed my family. But you did not sign up for that because it was the joy of your life. >> You signed up for that as a provider, as a father, as a husband, and a good man and a hardworking guy. But you didn't sign up for that and say, "This is the this is going to give my life meaning.

I'm going to make it big. I'm going to go make 700,000 a year doing this. You didn't have a a a set out to live a dream. You backed into something because you had to have a job to eat. And you're a good man and you're not afraid of work. Okay? So, I'm challenging you to take a step up from that. This is your opportunity to reset and land in

something that makes 200 grand a year.

And maybe you have to take three classes to learn how to do it. I don't know what it is. Or you start your own thing with

some of that hundred grand. or you take a class with some of that hundred grand, but this is your opportunity to say, "Not just because something's convenient.

I'm not going to do it because it's convenient." The family business is just convenient. It's you backing into something else instead of walking head first into something else. >> Yeah. Hold on the line, Michael. Christian will pick up and we'll give you Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do U, because there's a great assessment in there just to kind of get those wheels turning for you.

>> Yeah. >> But this is a great >> guy. I want you to dream though. And I would not invest or do anything with this 100 grand right now. I would just put it in a high yield sit. >> I wouldn't even take I wouldn't even take the package right now.

>> I'd figure out what I'm going to do first and then I take the package >> cuz they're letting him stay and they're going to keep offering the package for a while. >> So I'm going to I'm I'm going to take the next six months and do Ken's assessment. I'm going to decide what I'm going to be and I'm going to start taking steps into that thing that I have always wanted to do X and now I'm going to go be one of those.

severance package and then use the severance package to go live your dream but no I would not work at the family business and no I would not stay at this company that wants you to leave but I would for a little while while I get reset and figure out what my dream is and what it has to happen for me to live that dream you looking at buying real estate or dividend stock that's just you looking at crap on the internet looking for something to do >> well and to earn some money. I mean, you get you get you get your year's worth of salary or more handed in your lap to someone like him and he's like, "Holy crap, how could I make this money work for me?" Yeah.

>> Which is a fair question, but that's the wrong way to go about it right now until you have a steady income. Then you could take that and invest that later. >> Exactly. >> But I would be having a monthly income first.

>> This 100 grand is not going to make your life.

>> You're the secret sauce for your life.

That's the thing. So hang on. Christian will pick up. will get you a copy of that.

Finding the work you're wired to do. Take that assessment, read that book carefully. Uh read or listen to anything Ken Coleman says and he'll get you on the right track doing all this stuff. Um he's one of the Ramsey personalities for those of you that don't know and uh but specializes in this area of living your dreams and doing >> Okay.

Well, here's a question. They haven't let him go yet. No. >> Sit there for a little while.

>> But but what if he's loving it and he starts making more? Can would you not stay at a company that's laying off 40,000? No.

>> Yeah, but what if the 40 laying off the 40,000 props them up for a little bit longer? >> It props them up for a little while longer. But I'm not I'm not hanging around a place that's going down the toilet.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.com/realestate.

If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by

using Every Dollar. Cuz every dollar will guide you not only in a budget, but right through the baby steps. Doing this the Ramsay way. The plan is built into it. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations, coaching for your particular situation. You free

up more money. You work the plan even faster. You're working it together with your spouse. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step. Do this, do this, do this, and then holding you accountable. Why didn't you do it? Start Every Dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Alyssa

is in Montana. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk with you guys.

>> You too. >> Um yeah, so I my husband and I are um

Big Day Ramsey followers. I'm not sure what step we are in. Maybe babys five.

Um and we're trying to make the decision

if I can be a stay-at-home mom.

>> Cool. I love it. >> It's a Yeah, it's really an emotional decision and we're both analytical.

>> So well, let's do some let's do some analytics on the emotions. What do you what do you make?

>> Um, so I'm working right now. Um, we have one kiddo that goes to daycare. I

make 85 a year.

>> What does your husband make a year?

>> 116. >> 160.

>> 116. >> 116.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. And so what is your take-home pay?

>> Um, yours on the 85?

>> 46. >> Okay. 100 a month.

Is that right?

>> Uh like 46 4,600 a month. Yes.

>> Okay. You got a lot coming out of that.

>> Yeah. >> What's coming out of that?

>> Retirement um and just other taxes. I

don't have a lot coming out of mine.

>> Yeah, you do.

>> 4600 is only 48,000. You said you make for 85.

>> Yeah, >> there's a bunch coming out. Something's coming out of that check. What's coming out of it? >> I don't know. Maybe federal taxes.

>> It's not federal taxes. It's not It's too much for that. How much are you putting in your retirement?

>> Um, just up to the match, which is like 5%. >> Okay. 5%. Are you putting Are you paying the family's healthcare out of yours?

>> No, it's out of his. >> H. >> Are you getting a tax refund, Alyssa?

>> No. I We're not getting a refund for 25.

>> Okay. Well, there's I'm trying to help

with this, but so, okay, let's use the 4600. Uh, even though it's wrong and

some something's wrong with it, but anyway, the your daycare is how much?

>> 800. >> Okay. All right. So, after daycare, which you would not have if you were at home, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, 46 - 800 puts me at uh 3,800.

Does that sound right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. If you take $3,800 and put it in

the bank out of your budget for the next three months, that would mean you were living on your husband's income.

>> Mhm.

We're we're about there. We typically have about 4,000 >> in excess each month.

>> Okay. >> Oh, good. >> Then you can then you can do it.

>> You won't have any access, though, >> right? And that's kind of the scary part. Um he we just bought a house and

it's our first home and it's like $3,000

a month in all expenses for the house and so it just feels like like that's >> Did you guys do the math on both incomes when you bought the home? I mean obviously >> No, we tried to make it on just one. >> Oh, you did? Okay. >> Yeah, >> because he brings home how much?

>> Seven. Yeah. 40%.

>> Yeah. Your house is an awful your house is a big chunk of his income.

>> Really big, >> right? Yeah, it is.

>> And so that's going to be a you're going to be tight on the house. So what is the prognosis on him getting raises?

>> I think really good. Um he just started there and it's he kind of had to take a step down when he started there, but um

I think as soon as he gets like a year under his belt there, he can >> move up. So, I don't think we're like in this situation for a long time, but it feels like we're going to go back to beans and rice. >> How much paying off? You probably are.

You probably are for a year uh until his

income comes up. You don't have any Do you have an emergency fund in place?

>> Yeah. You said you're on baby step five.

>> I'm going to do it.

>> If I'm you, I'm coming home.

>> That's your desire. I'm taking it or you wouldn't ask the question, right?

>> Well, we have our second is coming in the summer. >> Oh, yeah. So that's >> I just would you stay home after would you work till the summer work for the next few months? Okay. Well, I would do that a list and I would just stack some some extra cash in another fund.

>> Yeah. >> Just to have on the side just to give you some peace of mind >> because it's going to be tight. >> Yeah. >> The first year of you being at home is going to be tight.

>> But you're analytical enough. You know your numbers. We can tell cuz we do budgets for a living. When we're asking people their numbers, they don't know their numbers.

That tells me they're going to be in trouble. But you know every number. You've got it all dialed in. The only number you didn't know is why your take-home pay is so low.

But other than that, uh you know every number I've asked you for. And you So you and it sounds like the two of you are talking about this together. He knows the numbers.

stack all that cash, you have proven that we can live on his income because we won't have the daycare.

>> Yeah. And you're going to have other savings being at home. >> Uh car gas, dry cleaning on the clothing that you don't wear to work anymore. Uh you know, you're now cooking from scratch, which is less expensive than a convenience-based food cuz you're working and tired. And you're not going to eat out as much cuz you're not working and tired. And so there's going to be a lot of other potential places you save in the budget. >> Two babies. Two babies. You'll be tired.

But >> yeah, will be your friend. Yes.

>> Yeah. But but being at home, being at home is what you're after. And you know, this is the cost of being at home. We're going to be a home economist.

>> Mhm. >> Make the economy of the home be more functional than it is today. And >> yeah, and and here's the thing, Alyssa, you guys made such great decisions up until this point doing the baby steps that that you're a you know what I mean, that you even have the choice, which is just wonderful. And so when John Deloney always talks about solving for peace, like as a mom, as I hear you, and your desire to do that, you're going to have you're going to have peace.

It's where you want to be. You want to be home with those babies. And so there's something that you can't put a price on that, right? And for a season, it's going to be tight.

>> Sometimes people when people hear you say, "Don't put a price on. It means you can do whatever you want to do." No, that's you can't do whatever you want to do. But you guys can afford to do that.

>> No. Well, no. But I would say the other way. If you can't do it and you still choose to, then you are going to be stressed and there is not going to be peace.

So no, there is a a real peace that you have created, >> right? But you're going to have to be grown-ups with the money. You can't just say, "Oh, I just choose to be at home and we're going to be responsible." But you're not that girl. You're not that girl.

>> And it does not create peace. >> Yeah. And she's not she's she's not that person.

>> Yeah. I would quit after the new baby comes. I agree with you. I'm I'm in. And

um because it's your goal and you've and you've earned the right to do your goal to Rachel's point. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Very well done. That's cool. You know, I I remember the first time distinctly that I took a call and the lady we

figured out that with daycare and she

wasn't making a lot of money. Alyssa was making a lot of money. >> Mhm. But with daycare and um whatever

else it came down to they had a a $400

payment on their van.

>> Mhm.

>> And that was actually what she was netting.

So she was working to pay for the van.

>> And it was like this light bulb comes on while we're talking to her.

>> Sell the van and quit your job.

>> Don't work for a van when you want to be there with your kids. Yeah.

>> And we've we've made that trade subconsciously accidentally Americans have for decades now.

>> Mhm. >> And >> well, daycare with two kids, right, is going to be you just double it. You know what I mean? So like it does start to dwindle to your point of the happening.

>> It's crazy.

>> Yeah. And so it's it makes it more and more and more reasonable to be at home the more expensive that stuff gets.

>> Mhm. >> And then go, what is it we're net net working for? Well, get rid of that debt.

You can do it. And that's what they have done before today. They got rid of the debt before she even made the call cuz they're at baby step five.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtree stage, Steve and Kathy are with

us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi. >> Hi. We are better than we deserve.

>> I love it. Where do y'all live?

>> Uh we are in Boisee, Idaho. >> Oh, I love it. That's a great town.

>> Well, welcome to Nashville all the way across the continent to do a debtree scream. >> All right. And how much have you guys paid off? >> We paid off $580,000.

>> Yay. And how long did that take?

>> Uh 12 years. >> Good for you. Gosh. >> And your range of income during that time? >> Uh we started at about a h 100,000 and uh last year we made $450,000.

>> Wow. What do y'all do for a living?

>> Uh I'm an engineering manager.

>> Good for you. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. And I do music at my church

part time. >> Very good.

>> What was the 580,000? What kind of debt?

>> It was our mortgage. >> Yeah. HEY, LOOK AT IT. WEIRD people

>> paid off the house. >> Yeah. >> So, what's this house in boyisey worth?

>> Uh, it's worth about 1.2 million.

>> All right. So, we're millionaires on the house alone. >> Look at it. >> Look at you. What a great house.

>> Amazing. Oh, you guys, congratulations.

>> Way to go, man. That's got to feel amazing. >> It feels amazing. It's been a a long road. Diligence and a lot of patience, but yeah, we made it. >> It sounds like the majority of those years the income was at the lower end of that range. Yeah. >> And then it just swooped up lightly.

>> It it actually slowly went up.

>> Oh, slowly. Steadily. >> It was steadily. Uh, >> did you all have consumer debt 12 years ago that you paid off first or was it really just working at the house? >> No, we started uh first we started in in 2010. We actually took FPU for the first time. So, what happened was in 2007, we bought a new house. >> Uh, we had kids and then um we took FPU in 2010. We paid off all of our consumer debt in 2010 quickly.

>> Um, you know, and you know what happened in 2008? We were way underwater.

>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. In our house. Terrible. 2013 we refinanced. >> And then uh my dad passed away in 2018.

>> And then my grandparents passed away in 2019 over the course of the next year. So my mom moved up uh to the boyisey area with us. And that's when we built that new house in 2020.

>> Uh and that's with my you know we have a mother-in-law quarters where my mom lives with us. So um we steadily you know we we had made decent money throughout the years. >> You're just working. >> We worked we worked the plan.

We were very diligent. You know, we we went through the baby steps, four, five, and six. >> We put three kids. We have three adult children.

Put them through school. One of them was in the Air Force. >> Wow. >> So, six grandchildren.

>> Oh, look at your family. >> You guys don't look old enough to have six grandkids. >> I know. >> Oh my gosh.

Wow. >> So, that's that's our why right there is is that that group. >> Change the family tree. >> Exactly.

>> Yes. Oh, I love it. And these two sitting over here >> are the ones that started all this for us. >> Our mentors came with us.

They met us out here. Um they joined us because the they put us through FPU. Jim and Debbie, our friends Jim and Debbie, uh they did the first FPU at at at our church. Um they've been kind of inspirational for us.

I've always want I want to be Jim when I grow up. So >> Amen. >> It's amazing. >> Well, I'm glad they got to come with you.

That's so neat. >> A lot of fun. >> And they get to celebrate your success, too. And so, how much have you guys got in your nest egg these days?

>> All right. So, you're bumping 3 million now. Way to go. I'm so proud of y'all.

>> Well done, you guys. It's not It sounds weird to say it out loud, doesn't it? >> It does. It doesn't feel like it.

>> It doesn't. It It was actually kind of strange. I was laughing when we first when we went to the bank to pay off the house. Uh >> it was a little bit surreal. I was expecting, you know, streamers and balloons.

>> No, >> the bank was not that happy.

>> You say that a lot. Is that funny? It's like >> That was kind of a downer. It's kind of antilimactic, but yeah, it was a lot of fun. >> If we ever get a bank that celebrates when you pay off your house, we have a new bank. >> Exactly. For sure. >> That's so cool, y'all. Way to go. Yeah.

>> How's it feel to be completely free after all these years? >> Yeah, it's amazing. >> It does feel amazing. >> We, you know, we know we can >> be more generous. We really want to be able to exercise that generosity muscle, uh, you know, and help as many people as we can. That's kind of been a big part of our lives throughout the years. So, we can we can continue to do more.

>> And also helping our grandkids go to school. >> Amen. >> Oh, yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. What have your grown kids said as you guys have been doing this journey? Have they >> they're proud of us? They I mean they're all three of our adult children they're debtfree. >> Yeah. They we made them take the class.

>> They they took FPU as they were growing up through high school >> and he's coordinating it. >> Yeah. I've been I've been coordinating FPU since 2013. >> Wow. Thank you. Oh my god.

>> It's a pleasure. We actually just started a I do it every spring and we just started this last week. So >> Oh wow. Okay. So the class will get to see your debtree screen >> I guess. So that's good.

>> Yeah. That's surreal. >> Hey my my FPU coordinator house. I don't

know about you, but I'm just saying.

>> Yeah. >> So, uh, way back in the day when you first went in the class, do you remember those emotions of like, >> I I wonder if this whole thing's a con.

I wonder if somebody didn't want to go or >> No, we both wanted to go. Well, maybe free spirit. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, we are the prototypical nerd free spirit couple.

>> I'm really nerdy. I am super nerdy. I, you know, the whole spreadsheet thing. So, I was into it.

I like the plan. I like the process. Yeah. >> Uh, you know, gives me it tells me what to do, you know.

So, >> we had to take it se couple times from them. I was not willing to cut up my Costco. >> That was the only one I was not willing to cut up. >> The Costco credit card.

>> Yes. >> That was going to save you. Yeah, >> I felt like it. I did.

But once we tracked it a whole year, I realized I was spending about 30% more just swiping. >> Oh, wow. And so, I thought, okay, it's on paper.

>> So, it's not theory. This is I'm really doing this. Yeah. Wow.

>> That's an interesting thing. >> And save 30% at Costco. George Camel would be proud of you.

>> Or Kirkland King. He loves it.

>> That's awesome. >> All right. So now you're coordinating classes for over a decade, almost 15

years. >> You uh accumulated a nice net worth, a good income. You're debtree. Your kids are debtree. Your family tree changed.

>> This is a massive transformation.

I mean, because when you started, I assume you didn't have anything.

>> Oh, nothing. We We were living paycheck to paycheck for the longest time. We weren't The budget was huge. We didn't We weren't paying attention really. I mean, it was just kind of Yeah. >> Oh, money comes in, it goes out.

>> You were normal. You were normal. And uh I'm so proud of you. >> What a great transformation. Thank you.

>> God has done a work. So, what do you what do you uh tell people? The key is that couple that comes in that first night and they're kind of looking sideeyed at you and they're like, "Is what is this some kind of cult or what is this deal? this Ramsay guy and and what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you guys are I mean you're like poster child.

>> Yeah, for me it's really simple. First is the budget. >> Uh getting it on paper, seeing it, >> you know, you you're telling your money what to do each month. I like you say I've heard you guys say it a million times. You for you to do the budget and you feel like you get a raise immediately. So we immediately had more money because we were paying attention to where it was going. >> And then just intentionality and discipline, >> always being on the same page.

>> That's Yeah. >> Always. We talk about our money a lot.

You know, I every two weeks I'm I'm a nerd. We sent a picture. I have this massive spreadsheet that I do this budget spreadsheet. I'm an engineer.

So, um, every two weeks when we get paid, I go and I do our budget, you know, for the next I have a six I have it laid out for the next six weeks exactly what's going to happen. So, >> even with the house paid off, I know Saturday morning >> he's going to be up there doing it. >> I actually enjoy it. So, >> it's good.

Oh, I love it.

>> Yep. He likes to save. I like to spend.

So Kathy, uh, along this way, he's obviously a, uh, a nerd, a detail guy.

Along this way, how did you manage to keep your voice speaking into that budget?

>> I'm the one he just I like to have fun.

So he makes the money. I make sure that we enjoy it, >> right? Like that was my thing. I always wanted to take the kids camping or I always wanted to do >> So you want to look at the budget and see that in the budget?

>> Yes. I needed it in the budget and he respected that. Yes, you guys wonderful. We would go through the numbers and I would, you know, if we we would go line by line.

I had line items for cash and things that would autopay and for the how much cash we're going to pull out every two weeks.

>> Here's the camping and the Costco line.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> How much have I got for camping? How much have I got for Costco?

>> But I know for me, the biggest thing is keeping God at the center.

>> And this is why we have what we have because of his blessings. Amen. And so we got to we got to do right by it. I love it.

>> It's a responsibility. >> You have you're you're being a blessing by being here today and sharing your story. It's inspiring. We appreciate you.

You're very very proud of you. Thank you for teaching the class. Thank you for your mentors to for getting you guys in this. They've >> completely I mean all those grandkids, all those people are changed.

>> Sweet. >> Because God's ways of doing things got inserted into your life. >> We really appreciate you guys and all your personality.

I see you guys around. I feel like I know everybody. I see John John Deloney and I feel like we're brothers and you know you guys know who I am but >> you are you are you >> are awesome and we are going to see you on the cruise next year all four of us >> all four of us we're all going all high

>> Stephen Kathy Boy Idaho 580,000 paid off

in the last 12 years that's the last step their house and everything baby steps millionaires count it down let's hear a debtfree scream >> 3 2 fun.

>> We're debtree.

>> WAY TO GO, YOU GUYS. WHAT an awesome

couple. >> It's amazing. >> Very neat.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramissolutions.com.

Our

scripture of the day, 2 Timothy 2:6. It is the hardworking farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops.

Sandra Day Okconor says, "Do the best you can in every task, no matter how unimportant it may seem at the time. No one learns more about a problem than the person at the bottom." Woo!

This is true. Stephanie is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. My husband and I recently had a baby. Um, the last few years I've worked as a travel nurse and because we just had the baby, I took a position um as a staff uh

making three times less than I was making before. So, we're just trying to figure out how to pay off 150,000 without me going back to traveling.

>> What are you making as staff?

Um, I make about 80K a year.

>> What does he make?

>> He makes 82.

>> 82. So, we have 162.

And um, you were you were making bank as a travel nurse, but that's not a good idea with a brand new baby. I agree.

>> Right. We decided to come back home, but it it's it's taken a huge hit um on us financially because I'm so I don't want to say I'm used to the money, but you know. >> But you're used to the money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's okay. That's a normal thing. I mean, >> 240 versus 80 is different. That's okay to say. Yeah, >> for sure. Big difference.

>> Yep. >> So, um, were you making huge progress when you had the 240?

>> Um, we did make some progress, but not as much as we wanted to. Um, >> what did you do? What were you doing?

Where were you screwing off?

Um, well, I mean, we purchased a house that was a I don't want to say it was a complete fixer upper, but we put aboutund >> You bought a house while you were trying to get out of debt. Well, that doesn't work. >> Yeah. At least we have a house now, though. And we wanted to have the house before we had the baby, so that's kind of what happened. >> Okay.

Well, the reason you haven't gotten out of debt is you put paying off the debt further down your list of priorities.

Yeah, >> that's going to have to change.

And so your priorities don't include eating out anymore.

>> Your priorities don't include going on vacation anymore. Your priorities don't include spending $80,000 fixing fixing up the nursery for a newborn who doesn't even know that stuff's there.

>> Right. >> Gotcha.

>> So the thing is is my husband and I are

actually pretty frugal. >> No, you're not.

I would say we are. >> No, you were making $240,000 a year and you didn't pay off hardly any debt. You're not frugal. >> Yeah. Well, we're trying to be.

>> No, you in your mind you are, but you not not The reality is you spent the money. That's not That's the opposite of frugal.

>> So, you're going to have to get frugal though >> if you want to make progress. >> Could y'all live on one income for two

years? >> Like 80 grand? >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's what we're trying to figure out. We have we consolidated our

loan into $1,000 payment and then our

mortgage is about 2400.

>> So that is our debt period. We have it all together and focused into two bills.

So one is our mortgage and two is our our um personal debt.

>> Okay. Well, if you can, you know, buy food, lights, and water and throw money

at this debt, um 75 a year gets you out

of debt in two years, right?

>> How?

>> Hm.

>> I said, how? >> Well, you make 16.

>> Yeah, but how do we uh how do we do

that? How do we live on one income when when we pay like 2,000 for one debt and

then 2400 for another?

>> Well, I thought you said it's a th00and, but the 2,000 go towards the debt is part of the 75.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> need to get more focused.

>> Yeah. Are you guys on a budget, Stephanie? >> All right. 162

162 minus 75.

>> Okay. I I got you, Dave. Here, you cough. Turn off your mic and cough. Um, Stephanie, are you guys doing a budget? A written budget?

>> We are. And I have it in front of me.

>> You do? Okay. So, where are things that Well, what is left after you pay your mortgage, like all the necessities that you have to have? What is left? How much is left?

>> Um, I I'm looking at the monthly total. Um,

not very much.

Um, we're putting 1,900 into child care

alone.

>> Into what? >> Into child care.

>> Employment. Why are you I thought you Oh. Oh, yeah.

>> For one baby.

>> For one baby. We pay $20 an hour.

>> Is it daycare?

>> No, it's a babysitter. We couldn't find any openings for daycare around us.

That's what we wanted to do, but we were paying for um a babysitter. So, it's 20 bucks an hour. Okay, >> that's average. >> So, so the I mean the reality is Stephanie that you guys it may take you three years, I don't know the plan, but you but to have a level of intensity

that you guys have never had before is what this is going to require to get out of this and is the 150 was that student

loans? What was it?

>> So, um 150 total. So, we have about 60

in student loans and then 100,000 in

personal loans. and personal loans. Is that car debt, too?

>> No, we paid off all our cars.

>> What did you use the personal loan for?

>> So, we It was a combination of a roof,

um plumbing on our house.

>> Oh, for the house? >> And Yeah. So, it was a combination of our roof, plumbing on our house, and then we had some um credit card debt.

>> Okay. >> What do you owe on your home?

>> Um currently we owe 281,000.

What is it worth?

>> I would say about 500,000. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, some of what you're paying off is not consumer debt. It was part of purchasing the home. So, um you

know, if you rolled some of that into a refinance, that wouldn't be the end of the world. But I wouldn't do that. I think you guys make enough to plow through this. But you're going to have to just look at this budget and go scorched earth. Beans and rice, rice and beans, nothing.

spending nothing. >> Yeah. So, that that's what's I mean, yeah, it it is it's just it's it's the

mindset of having to the deeper you sacrifice, the faster you're going to get out. And that may mean him working extra at night, too. Stephanie, working weekends, you bring in even more income overtime. Um, but again, the deeper and faster you sacrifice, the faster you're going to get out.

And the less you sacrifice, the less you kind of make everything a little bit more comfortable, the longer it's going to be of that process. So it really it comes down to families. I mean honestly looking at each other and just choosing like okay >> stopped all your contribution to retirement paying into that.

>> Oh you are? Okay. So if you stop that that's $7,000 freed up. So pause retirement >> 14.

>> Yeah. Pause retirement >> temporarily. >> Yeah. We have a lot of money in our retirement but we want to make sure that we're set for >> you're going to be fine Stephanie.

You're Yeah. But this 150 is hanging over your head, >> Stephanie. If every time we bring up something on how you can get out of debt, you tell me why you can't do it, I can't help you. >> Oh, no.

I'm just Well, you are thinking of >> So, I mean, you got you got to stop doing that. You okay? You need to stop retirement. You need to go through this budget with a scorched earth idea and burn the place down. you make a tenth of I mean you make a third of what you used to make and you weren't even making it on that and you were calling yourself frugal. So you you've got to sit down

and start looking at this and going okay

we have got to treat this like our hair is on fire. We've got to treat this like the future of our family is dependent on getting rid of this stupid debt regardless of how we got into it.

>> Mhm. >> This is how we get out. We stop all retirement. We stop eating out. We stop going on vacations. We stop anything that looks like a luxury. And we plow into this debt like our life depended on it. And in two years, you could be done.

>> Maybe three, but two, you should be done. You can pick up shifts at the ER.

You can He can pick up shifts here and there. The good news about nursing is you can always up your income temporarily without destroying the family, without going back on the road.

I agree with your decision to come off the road with a baby. I agree with that.

But then we went and hired a nanny basically. >> Mhm. >> And you know when you have $150,000 in debt and you make $162,000, you don't live in nanny land. >> Yeah. >> That's not nanny land. Nanny land is more income than you make and less debt than you've got. So that that's where you are. >> And for a period of time, for a period of time, >> just for a short period of time, what have we got to do to go crazy to clean up this mess we've made? and no excuses, no rationalizations.

You got to end it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 20. Building Wealth Means Learning the Art Of Patience | November 10, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. That's why we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

888255225 is the phone number. 8 8255225.

I got I'm going to warn the audience.

This is a good warning, but I got a little extra juice today. Uh, so as a man of the people and alongside the most fly co-host a man could have, >> Jade Warshaw, >> what a high honor, Kim. >> You got the you got the Lulu uh sweatsuit on in full effect. If you're not watching, you need to head over to YouTube because >> I always say she's fabulous and today you put the all caps fab in there.

mess around and drown the late 80s, early 90s tracksuit vibe. Something going on. So, you're ready? I don't even have to ask. Noah, >> are you ready? >> I I thought I was uh and then I walked in. I think I got a little extra juice now. So, a little little little extra energy and I'm excited about it because Noah starts us off in Detroit, the motor city, the home of my mother, Barb. How

about that? I love Detroit. Let's go, Noah. How can we help today?

>> Hey, Ken. How are you doing? Well, you can tell a little fired up today. How can I help?

>> Um, I'm looking for some advice. Um, I'm

in my third year of college right now going for a mechanical engineering degree and, um, I'm wondering if it's

time to maybe switch paths and go into

the family business and stop pursuing mechanical engineering. >> Okay. Now, I'm going to get right to this. Is this a heart question, Noah, or is this a head question? And let me explain before you answer. If it's a hard question, um, not too long in the past, you

started thinking about the business, the family, you want to be a part of the legacy, there's something pulling you in, and it's a positive emotion.

Or if it's a head question,

I got into college, pursued mechanical engineering. I don't think it's my jam.

Not sure what I want to do, Jade. Right.

I think I'll do a fall back because I know that the nest is warm. So, with that being a probably too long setup,

>> Noah, is this a head question or a heart question?

>> So, I think it's more of a I think it's more of a head question, but I'd say I wouldn't be doing it as a as a fall back. >> Okay. It would be more of looking at it as uh you know, I've kind of thought of

the business maybe as as it would be a fall back, but I'm looking at my parents and they're doing really well from the business and doing well than I think I would be able to do as an engineer and thinking that, you know, that could be >> okay, >> could be an opportunity that I that I look past. >> All right, I appreciate the honesty. I really do. And I'm going to I'm going to challenge this.

I don't First of all, this is not a bad decision. you know, head good head decisions work out.

15 years from now, >> and you're running the family business, and it's been great financially.

>> Yes. Come on, Ken. Get into it.

>> You know where I'm going. I do know. >> And you're doing well. You've served mom and dad well. They're they're proud of you. You got a good life. dare I say

great life on paper, but inside your

soul has slowly seeped out of your body over the last 15 years because you took a sound, a smart financial choice.

That's why I always put it out that way.

So again, okay, if you go do it, but

understand that you're going to have to make if you make that choice, you're going to have to make some other choices to say then, all right, I'm going to make sure that I'm serving in my local community. I'm going to find something outside of the family business that lights my heart up. Yeah.

>> And so that I am experiencing meaning as

a person. >> Yeah. >> Not just a professional who's killing it. Otherwise, you'll have that unfinished business when you when you look up. >> Yeah. >> I mean, what kind of work is the family business? What type of job would you be doing specifically? >> Um, they run a machine shop. So, it's a smaller smaller machine shop about four employees. Um, including my dad and my

mom. And >> what do you think you would make? You said that the the real primary reason for this is because he goes, I'll make more work in in the family business, running the family business, than I would as a mechanical engineer.

I was going to say, what are the numbers? What are you running and what's the difference? >> So, starting out, I mean, I would probably make similar to what I'm making now at my part-time job in like the low 20s, but I know that their profit is

around 300,000. >> Wait a sec. Wait a sec. He's got he's got a part-time job right now in school.

>> But would you be making the same amount doing the same part-time work or would it be full-time that you'd be making the same amount? Does that make sense? >> No, same amount like per hour.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, so but that's just starting out. But, um, you know, I think

starting out as a machinist, it would probably be similar pay. I just I think that the opportunity for, um, for the

for that pay to increase is is a lot bigger in the when you own your own business. >> All right. Okay. So, you were listening to Jade and I. I was preaching. She was amening. And I appreciate that, by the way.

>> How did you receive that? You're a young guy. your early 20s or is that right?

>> Yeah, I'm 20. >> All right. So, what are you thinking long term when I said that? Did it register? And what what was your head response? What was your heart response?

>> Um, my heart response was

that I think I think no matter what I do, whether I did engineering or um

worked at the machine shop, I think that I would have to find that fulfillment outside of work. >> Yeah, I I had that sense.

>> Let me ask this question. What if you, let's pretend you get off this call and you're like, you know what? I'm going to work for the family business. You start working. Five years from now, you look up and you say, "Hey, this is just not hitting the way I thought." What would happen with the relationship dynamic?

>> Let's play that out. If you were to go to mom and dad and say, "You know what? I know I'm here. I know you guys depend on me. I got to go my separate ways." How do you see how do you foresee that something like that playing out? Would it mess up the relationship?

>> Oh, no. I don't think so. I think if if I without me stepping in and sort of trying to maybe become like the next generation, um I think they would probably end up closing when they retired anyways. So, I don't think it would strain the relationship.

>> All right. Just for fun. Okay. And just for fun, I mean this.

>> Mhm. >> What would you pick just just as a big professional if I told you that you would be successful at it right now? What would you do? Not mechanical engineering, not run a mom and dad's shop.

What would you do? >> You like that? Yeah, I do. I I do that on purpose.

What would you try if you knew you couldn't fail and you knew you'd be successful at it and you knew you could change your mind? What would that be? Fill in the blank. Go.

>> Oh, instantly I'd go go be a cattle rancher.

>> Oh my god. Okay. >> Okay. I should have asked this question a lot sooner. All right. So, we got about a minute. Here we go. Really quick answers. What's keeping you from pursuing being a cattle rancher?

>> Um, I think the unknown. I don't know anyone who's done. >> Great. You ready? I got you four questions. You got something to write with? >> Yeah. >> Here we go. Four questions you got to answer in the next week. And this will take away the fear of the unknown. Number one, what do I have to learn?

That's what's the qualification process to be eventually become a cattle rancher. What do I need to do? What's the experience piece? The first one is the education question. What do I need to learn? Second is what I need to do.

That's the experience piece. I've got to start out on the ranch, right? The whole nine yards. What do I got to do to get in? >> Third question is, >> what is it going to cost me? What is that education and experience? The first two questions, what's it going to cost me? And then based on the cost, Noah,

fourth question is the expectation question. How long will it take? So, here we go. Quick review. A lot of people need this today. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much will it cost? How long will it take?

Jade, let me tell you something. Those four questions take away the fear of the unknown. And it helps you decide to move forward.

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All right, let's go to Sheldon who's joining us now in Salt Lake City. Sheldon, how can we help today?

>> Hi, how you guys doing? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Good, good. Hey, so uh um yeah, I just

had some crazy life uh changes here in

the past couple months. Um, to put it shortly, I've I've been married,

graduated, graduated college, um, had a

death in the family, and then now laid off of a job. So, >> oh my gosh. >> Um, yeah, things have been kind of crazy. >> And what's the time period on this? Like just a couple months?

>> Yeah, just within just since May.

>> When did you get laid off? When did you get laid off?

>> I got laid off uh about like a month ago. >> Oh, man. I'm sorry. What? Where? What?

Laid off from doing what kind of work?

Oh. Um, so I got laid off from a machine. Um, I was in the manufacturing industry. >> Interesting. And what are you doing now?

>> So, right now, um, this kind of leads into my question. So, I recently just got a new job as a quality engineer, uh, down in Salt Lake City.

>> So, my wife, my wife and I are going to relocate down there. Um, and we're wondering just because we're re relocating our our only car broke as as well. Um, so we just got a new car. Um,

or sorry, we already had the we already had her car, but my car broke down.

>> Okay. >> We just have one. Um, and so we're wondering since we're on baby step two, we want to pay off my my student loan debt, but we also kind of need another form of transportation just in case this one breaks. >> So, we're wondering if I should pay off my debt first or or get a new car.

>> So, she there's one car family. It's her car. How old is it? Tell them tell me about that car.

The car we have right now is a 2005 Toyota Corolla. >> Okay. >> Oh, that'll run till 3000. Year 3000.

>> Yeah. Do you have any problems with it now or is it running just fine?

>> Um it's we have to replace the Cadillac converter on it. Um but we've been replacing so much stuff the past um yeah

couple weeks. So we're like we hope it because it should it's a Toyota. It should be good, right? But >> yeah, I mean it's gonna need maintenance. You're gonna have to replace things over time. 2005. But do you feel like >> when you took it and it needed the work and you did the work, do you feel like that was the end of the laundry list for now? >> We hope so. We hope so. Yeah.

>> And have you gotten to Salt Lake City yet? You're there or you're about to go?

>> No, we're we're looking for an apartment now. So, >> do you need a second car? I think I know the answer, but I have to ask.

>> Yeah. Um, so with that, like we're trying to find a place that I could possibly commute, um, you know, using the UTA, uh, the tracks or something like that. So, um, so, but with the

place that we're at now, it it' probably be an hour, give or take, if I did take the tracks. >> Okay. >> So, am I Yeah.

>> And how much student loan debt do you have?

>> Um, I have 13,500.

>> Anything else? Any other types of debt?

credit card debt, personal loans,

anything else? >> No, >> just the 13,000. >> We've been following the >> Yeah, we've been following the debt snowball. So, >> good. >> That's where we're at now. >> You know, you might be talking to the wrong one because when my husband and I paid off uh we're working to pay off half a million. We sold our car and we were a onecar family for a decade.

>> Um, and you just learn how to make it work. And I'm going to tell you why I did it. because my sister started it by

being a onecar family and they had two kids and they did it and I said, "Well, if they can do it, then we can do it." And we kind of just got used to how things ran and it was a decade before we got a second vehicle. >> You did it for how long after actually paying off debt? >> Uh, seven, six years.

>> Yeah, that blows my mind by the way. It >> that's great >> because I knew at that point you know how to prioritize and you know what's important to you and you go for that. So, for me, I'm going to tell you, I'm like, figure it out. Do one car until you pay off this 13,000. It's not that much. What are you going to be making at this new job?

>> Um, so with this new job, we're we're going to be making 72,000 with this new one. So, >> how quickly can you pay off 13,000 with you doing a new job, maybe picking up a little side hustle, maybe your wife doing a little something on the side as well. How quickly could you do that?

>> Yeah, we'll probably do it pretty quickly. A couple months. >> Yeah. Then you can save up cash and you can buy something in cash and then of course you know how it works.

Um you save up some cash maybe you buy yourself a little beater5 or $7,000 and then the way this works guys when you buy cars that are that cheap by the way Ken they're not losing a lot of value super fast they're kind of worth what they're worth at that point >> 100%.

You put it with that cash and now you're driving a $10,000 car. And if it's a priority, you save a little bit more and you put another 3,000, before you know it, you're driving a $13,000 car. That's how this works. And if I'm going to be quite frank for the listening audience, Ken, when I first started listening to Dave Ramsey, uh, back in 2005, 2007,

when I heard him say the idea of stopping with the car payments and paying cash for cars, that was probably one of two things that he used to teach that really >> I wondered if the guy was all there. I WAS LIKE, IS what he's saying true? I had a hard time wrapping my bra my brain around it because you don't hear that every day. Over 40% of Americans have car payments. So that's right. There's part of that that it's like, wait, what?

What are you saying? Have a one car family pay off my car and then pay cash for the other one? Jaden, Ken, are you smoking something? No, we're not.

>> No. Well, in this case, uh, first of all, I love the advice. I was going to go that direction. I think in this case, um, because of the public transportation, um, because of their they have such little debt.

I love the idea of a young couple going in there learning how to adapt. And I think the hour train ride both ways, >> I would use that as a little bit of penance to kind of keep me motivated to get the 13 knocked out to then save up for something. >> And I would use that to learn. I'd use that to journal.

I would really use that time and learn >> the art.

patience. >> Yes. And I think that's what I love so much about you and Sam and your story is that you figured it out. And it reminds me of the old phrase, this is for the entire audience, whether your situation is different, but you're trying to get out of debt, trying to pay for a car, to

save up, to make life a little bit more convenient, here's the takeaway. Where there is a will, you know how it goes.

>> There's a way. >> And I think that that is grandma wisdom.

I think it's right. I think you and Sam proved it. >> Yes. But let's not be uh let's be honest

with the people and tell them it's very easy to sit from our positions and say that. But for the person who's receiving that, it's emotional because for so many of us, the car the very car that we're telling you to sell is the car you bought yourself because you were celebrating the job you got when you graduated college, right? That was your that was your retirement present that you can now no longer afford. So there is an emotional component where we go, "Wait a minute, Jade and Ken.

>> You know what I'm saying? They're hearing it going, "Well, you're you're on the other side. It's easy for you to say that now, but Ken and I understand that struggle. We know that it's an emotional thing.

We know that it's hard to go home and try to tell your spouse, "Hey, by the way, we're selling the the Tahoe, and here's why." It's emotional when you you show up for the holiday and your family's like, "What happened to that Cadillac you guys used to drive?" And you're like, "Oh." And you go through that mental thing of like, "Do I tell them that we're paying off debt? It's really none of their business." D.

Ken, I talk about that kind of stuff in the book that I just came out with, what no one tells you about money. Cuz no one tells you that. No one tells you, "Hey, this is a battle." And if you can just come to the point of acceptance, this is just part of the process. The time will come when I can get that car I want again.

But for today, like you said, where there's a will, there's a way. And this is a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. >> Well, and and I I I love it. I love that you said that.

And but but we are not speaking from this ivory tower. I'm glad you pointed that out.

>> We're not h we're not robots. We're humans. And there is an emotional side to winning with money.

>> And uh I'm going to tell you though, but that's where the will comes in. Because when we can say what is the desired future that we have >> and if I can focus more on how great that future will be, >> it makes it makes it >> a slight bit easier.

>> Not easy. >> Yes. >> But a slight bit not even easy. Let me say this. It makes it bearable.

>> And you share a lot of stories in this book about >> um it is bearable. you can bear the burden. >> Yeah. >> Of the rough emotions.

>> Well, it's it's all about reframing it in in the fact that you're making a trade-off. It's not that you're missing out on something. It's not, oh my gosh, I don't get to have this. I don't get to go on trips.

I don't get to drive the car I want. I don't get to uh have my free time cuz I have to side hustle, right? It's about retra reframing is that as a trade. I'm trading something that I want now for something that I want most, which is a future without stress and debt and payments.

and to be able to actually do the things that I say are important to me.

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All right. So, uh, we were talking about Jade's book and and what I love about the book. It's just not another money book. Now, a lot of you Ramsey folks, I'm just going to hit this head on. You're going, "Why do we need another money book from another money personality?" Wrong question. Uh, because this is not another one.

>> What is it, Ken? >> Um, well, I I my personal take on it is is it addresses the thing that we don't talk a lot about on this show.

>> Yeah. We give you the baby steps. They work. It there's no argument.

>> No argument. No question. Um, and there are times where we as hosts, >> we will jump in on the emotion.

>> I do as a nonmoney personality, I will

try to listen for what is the mindset,

what's the emotional situation that I think is present in this particular call. >> But what you do in this new book, what no one tells you about money, and you're going, what is it? Well, I'm going to let you answer it. >> Yeah. What is it that no one tells us

about money and you now do in this book?

What is it? >> No one tells you that money is so emotional. We tell you all the time money is connected to everything you do, right? It's connected to your career.

It's connected to your relationships.

It's connected to your faith walk. It's connected to so many areas. Therefore, when people like Ken and I are saying, "Hey, make these changes." you are going to run up against those areas in your life where you have had prior experience that is now informing how you feel about money. I said, let let me give you an example. Uh you might be a person who

can you worked at a job for 15 years and they just up and laid you off.

>> Happens all the time. >> And so you weren't expecting it. Yeah, maybe you could have done a better job handling your money, but now you're in a bunch of credit card debt, >> right? So you're calling here telling us about your credit card debt.

What's at the core of that is there's a lot of hurt about how you were treated. There's a lot of shame about the fact that over those 15 years you could have done a better job managing your money. So there's a lot under the surface about how we are really feeling that's not just cut up your credit card and pay off your debt. Right.

That's right. >> And so this is talking to you about that. Or maybe you had a spouse who you were married to forever and they lorded over the money and they were controlling and then they just up and left you. And it's taken you years and years to build back from that experience.

And here we are. You know why? All you need to do is walk, you know, pay list them smallest to largest, right? And we're right.

You do list need to list them smallest to largest. But what about the thing underneath that's making you feel like you got a raw deal? What's about what about the part underneath that's making you feel like, well, shouldn't my ex have to pay half of this? And that can block us.

It can make us want to stop and go, wait, first I need somebody to make it. I need somebody else to make this right. I need somebody to apologize to me.

>> Let's work through the emotions. Let's accept what's happened. Let's accept our role in it, whether it was teeny, teeny tiny or really, really big. And let's get about the work of changing it and accepting what's going on.

Accepting the process of change and accepting the fact that this is going to be an emotional process and that's okay. >> Listen, it's the only Ramsay book to take an honest deep dive look into the emotional side of money. And I'll tell you this from my standpoint. Uh, you know, I'm in the personal and professional growth space.

So, I could name names. I'm not going to.

>> And I can tell you, how do you know somebody's full of crap? They say stuff like that because here's what I know.

Uh, having coached over 10,000 people on the Ken Coleman Show, thousands more here on the Ramsey Show. You cannot act

your way into change. It is emotion. And if you change the way somebody feels, if we can change the way we feel, then and only then can we change the way we act.

That's why this book is so important because it takes that on >> and it's not ignoring the baby steps.

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Get it today. Taylor now joins us in San Antonio, Texas. Taylor, how can we help?

>> Hi, how are y'all? >> Great. How are you?

>> I am good. I am um calling because I'm hoping you guys can settle a marital debate. >> We can I am confident in this. I don't even know what it is. >> Um and I handle our finances. So, I'll start off by saying that. Um I adore my husband, but uh he's just not a money person. >> So, um we have total we have three items

of debt p uh in our lives. That's it. No car payments, nothing. um a mortgage of $222,000.

Um my husband's student loan is about $106,000.

Okay. >> And then um we have a uh let me see this

last one here. Sorry.

>> Oh, a business loan of about 115,000. So

kind of roughly about $440,000

and that's half a million dollars in debt. >> Is the business still alive?

>> It is still alive. Um it's our personal business. So I and my husband's a physician. Um I know that kind of plays into it, but we started our own clinic.

>> Okay. >> Um so he we pay him you know a salary

and then you know we take quarterly dividends. >> Uhhuh. >> Well I am at the mindset I want my house pay off. You know I pay my kids private school with cash. Everything is cash.

But these three things and they are bothering me so much. But my husband wants to take these quarterly dividends after paying off the minimum balance of the loans and put them into our Fidelity. So sometimes 7 to $10,000 a

month goes straight into Fidelity.

>> And I just don't He just once he thinks

when you invest early it just pays off later. But >> Well, I get it. Well, he's right and he's wrong. >> Yeah. Um >> there's worse things you could do than invest your money. But Ken's going to explain why that's not the good >> Yeah. I'll let you do that. You're the money guru. But I I I just am curious.

What are you all paying him?

>> See, and that's the thing. I pay him 200,000 because we just opened five years ago. So, you know, we we work with our CPA. Sure. You know, it's >> and I it's probably going to have to start going up because the dividends have become greater this year. >> And I was going to ask you, could you give us maybe a sixmonth average of what the dividend I mean, not six month because I know it's quarterly. Give me a year's worth of quarterly dividends.

What's that >> gross? Like our tax is about 450 450,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, you're averaging on these dividends somewhere in the 7 to 10 range.

>> Yeah. >> Whoa. We just lost you there. We got you. I mean, >> there you go. Is that right? So, quarterly dividends somewhere between 7 to 10. Is that what I heard?

>> Yes. And I And I aggressively pay off I pay almost $7,000 a month for this business loan. So, I only have a year and a half left. So he So you are paying on that just the minimums, right?

>> Get that money in.

>> Are you just paying the minimums on the debt?

>> I'm paying a minimum on my student my husband student loan because he's I think it's like a spite thing and then it's only 2.6%.

>> But what about the Okay, >> but how are you paying down the business loan is what she's asking. >> Yeah. What about the business? Is it just the minimum on that? >> Paid through the business before the dividend. So every month I pay almost $6800 a month.

>> Understood. But is that the minimum or are you paying above the minimum? >> I'm paying a little bit more. I am. So, >> the 6.86%. >> You both have you both have different ideas about what the priority is. It sounds like you'd rather take that money and pay off the mortgage. Did I understand that? >> Uh, yes. Okay. Mortgage every I mean, if you're looking at the the it's the mortgage 3.125.

>> Understand? So, you're talking about this you Here's the problem. Um, and I don't know if I'm going to get through on this call, but it's something it's food for thought. He's thinking about the future.

He's thinking, "Let me take this extra money and invest." Not a bad idea. There's, like I said, there's a lot worse things you could do with the money. You're thinking about the money saying, "Let me take this and put it on the mortgage." Again, not a horrible idea. You could do a lot worse.

But let's what I'm here to do is give you guys a sense of what the priority should be.

You feel me? So, first off, you've got this debt. I don't care what the interest rate is, it's still climbing.

Can we agree on that? >> 100%. >> And as long as we're paying minimum payments, we're probably never going to pay this thing off. We're going to pay so much in interest.

So, why don't we prioritize paying off our debt? And I say this because when you pay off the debt, now you have what Dave Ramsey would call your biggest income, your biggest wealth building tool, which is your income working for you. And once you have that income back in your hands, yes, you can pay off your mortgage very, very quickly. Yes, you can invest for the future far more than you ever were before.

So, let's get that tool back in our hands.

They're probably broken into smaller pieces. You need to pay minimum payments on everything. Student loans, business loans, but then you need to put all of the extra margin on the smallest debt.

And let's knock it out. You guys can be done with these these student loans and this business loan very very quickly. Uh when you're grossing and netting $450,000 a year or whatever it says that you were doing, you can do this.

Priority matters.

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may not be available in all states. >> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Nikki in Nebraska. She says, "My husband and I are in our early 30s. We bought a home next door to his parents about 5 years ago. His parents' home is paid off with 40 acres of land. My in-laws want

us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property with the money we make from it." Okay. Then they

would give us their house free and clear. We bought our home for 135,000

and remodeled it. We could sell it for 285,000.

The hitch is that my husband doesn't want to sell our home. He wants to take out a loan of around 70,000 to build a

house for them and hold on to our home as a rental. What is the best move for our future?

>> It ain't that one. Oh, first of all, I just want to throw all the papers up.

>> Yeah, I uh just tell you where I'm at. I just uh checked out of that question halfway through. They made this so complex and so ridiculous. I've never

even this the gymnastics that I had to do mentally to get through that tells you one thing. >> Well, it's a lot. I mean, the the the the gist of it is the gist of it is for some reason they feel like in some form or fashion they have to buy a house for their in-laws. >> Yeah. I had three words that came to mind. Leave and cleave was in my marriage vows. >> Yeah. Or how about no? How about no?

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's why you say no.

>> Leave and cleave.

>> No. Bad idea.

>> Horrible. >> My in-laws want us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property.

>> Yeah. I want my kids to buy me a Lamborghini. Sure. What else are we going to say? That's ridiculous. >> Will you buy my G Wagon, Kim? >> Sure. Why not? >> Oh, I was expecting you to say no. Well, I'm being ridiculous here. I'm being ridiculous. It's just like what?

>> Yeah. No. No. On all fronts. Literally, >> by the way, those people ask that question because they think they're going to get a positive answer. So, there's a lot of psychology behind that, which I can't dig into over an email question, but boy oh boy, that's a bad move. >> There's no there's not enough to it for us to get to the bottom of it. But >> I'm gonna tee you up. Okay. Yeah.

>> Big T right here. Giant golf ball. You got the world's biggest driver. I'm teeing you up. All right. tell our larger audience, forget the details of this question, but the whole issue that's underneath this, which is family pressure. Yes. >> Doing financial things with family that have zero boundaries. Uh, there's your shot. Hit it down the fairway. >> I mean, I don't think I'm going to say what you think I'm going to say, Ken.

>> I don't presume to know what you're saying. >> I thought you had something set up. I'm gonna say >> I'm just saying why we uh think this is a bad idea in general. >> Because this right here is what I think is a classic case of it. It has a guilt

that's associated with it. Ken, >> because we can feel guilt with money, whether it's something I didn't do, right? They expected me to do this and I wasn't able to do it, right? We can feel guilt about doing the right thing and the people don't understand why we're doing it. So, we can even feel guilty doing the right thing. And so, what I sense from this is there's some family guilt here. Well, if we don't build them the house, how are they going to have a house? They know the right thing to do.

>> That's right. That's why they're running out all these options. And they're afraid that if they don't build their in-law home, they're going to have to be the one that lives with that. Y >> when really it's the in-laws that have to live with that for whatever reason that they can't buy their own home or build their own home. That's their problem. >> You want to do a family compound? Great.

But everybody pays for their own home.

>> Everybody pays for their own home and you shouldn't have to carry that. >> Yeah. It's craziness. All right. Well done. You hit it right down the middle. 400y drive. McKenna is up next in Salt

Lake City. McKenna, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, so my question today is, "My husband's employer just opened healthcare enrollment and we're wondering if we should reenroll this year due to his premiums doubling along with his out-of- pocket max and deductible doubling as well." >> Oh my gosh. >> Here's another real life case

>> of an of the affordability crisis in America. M >> this is just absolute real stuff right here. >> Yeah. Insurance prices have really really really skyrocketed.

>> And what is Congress what do they do?

What are both parties doing? Just whistling just whistling around in DC like nothing's happening. Here we go.

McKenna. So give us real numbers. Uh because it'll help us. And then I want the American people to hear this as well. So it's going to go from what to what?

>> So it's currently $500 a month which has

been okay for us. has been sustainable with our income, but it's going up to $900.

>> And what's your And what's your income?

>> Wow.

>> Our monthly income is $5,000 a month

combined. >> Yeah. You feel that?

>> Yeah. Unbelievable. >> I for sure feel that. We just had a fivemon Well, we just had a baby. He's 5 months old. >> I'm grateful for insurance, but I'm also just like, we're feeling the pressure with it already being at 500. How are we

supposed to go up to 900? Um, I'm really lucky. My boss is amazing. He doesn't offer healthare because it's a small company, but he does give us $200 a month towards healthare.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm just like, do I selfinsure? I've called my pediatricians. I've called my primary doctors. And I'm just like, how much would it be if I didn't have insurance and numbers?

>> Have you priced it out? Are you going to the market on your own, not through his work? So, I've called the market a couple times in the last couple days and tried to get a contact with some brokers, but due to the government shutdown, unfortunately, it's hard to get quotes out. >> And so, they've been struggling getting quotes out to me. I've talked to probably four or five people and I've only gotten one quote and it was $700.

>> Yeah. I mean, we could set you up with folks here. I mean, wealth trust, you could go over there and see if if they can find some better um numbers for you just to see so you can compare. And I think that's the takeaway from this call is you need to run a comparison and see

is it better for you guys to go out in the open market on yourself using your $200 rebate or is it better for you to go through his through his work. The truth is, as much as I hate to admit it, McKenna, insurance is going up. I mean, it's going up here at our work. Um, everybody is feeling it. It's just part of what's going on in that industry. Um,

but you can always shop the numbers. you can always uh see if there's something that's better for you out there. And if not, then it's tough. I I'm not going to act like this is easy, but you're going to have to adjust to whatever the new number is because I doubt you're going to find it for the exact same amount with the same coverage.

It's likely going to go up somewhat, and you're going to have to find that in your budget, whether it's cutting back in another area or you guys starting to look for different jobs that pay a little bit more. Um, that's the very emotional side of this is when an external thing happens and it affects our life internally and it's like, well, wait a minute. I had nothing to do with this and now here I am holding the bag for it and I have to change my life and rearrange my money and rearrange how I was working.

That's emotional and I'm sorry that you're having to go through that. >> Yeah.

>> We do. We have about $47,000 in consumer

debt. >> Uh, run just give me a a list here. go smallest debt to the largest debt.

>> So, our smallest debt is a credit card

with about $1,700 on it. And then the

next debt is another credit card that we put medical bills on for my son's delivery due to some insurance mixups

and we had to pay more out of pocket than we thought. Um, we saved up 10,000, ended up having to pay about 16,000. So, there there's about $6,000 on that credit card. >> Okay. >> And then we have two auto loans. One I think has like 19,000 and one has 18,000. >> Okay. You're you're I think a lot of your relief is found in those vehicles.

>> Yeah. And that's why it's getting rid of that debt. So, first of all, we hear you. We see you. >> And it sucks. And I'm not going to pull my hair out today and rant at DC. Um

maybe later I'll let myself calm down.

>> Keep keep your hair. It looks It looks good. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh but but what I would say is is that what can we control? So other than voting, we can't

control what DC does, what the healthcare companies do. There's things that are outside of our control. You understand that? Yes.

>> Okay. But what you can control is um well, we're going to have an increase in health care, but we're not going to we we're going to do what we got to do on that. We got to take care of of baby, got to take care of our family. Now, there is some struggle ahead for you all and it has nothing to do with the health care cost because I would tell you that you could absorb that health care increase if you didn't have all those car payments.

You didn't have the credit card payments. So, you guys are listening to us. You're watching us. You called McKenna, you got to double down here.

We're going to work. We're going to sell everything. We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant.

that's going to all that debt and put it back in your pocketbook. We're going to have the ability to pay the healthcare increase and thrive.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman joined by Jade Warshaw. Excited to have you with us. 88 8255225.

Kimberly is up next in Houston, Texas.

Kimberly, how can we help today?

>> Hey y'all, how are you? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Uh, so we uh found an old 401k and it

has about 11 um $111,000 in it.

>> We also >> I love that you found it like it was over in the corner.

>> We're doing some fall cleaning. >> But thanks thanks to you, Ken. My husband left that job. Um he found the proximity principal and he just found a new career. So the 401k just kind of got pushed on the back burner. >> Yeah. I love >> Thank you for that. >> Oh, happy to do it. He did it and I didn't do anything. So that's fun.

111,000. Did I hear that right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> So that's the good part. The bad part, um, we have a slew of credit card debt with three of the major cards having 57,000 and the total credit card debt is

80,500.

>> Oh my. Okay.

>> Yes, I know. So, uh, the question is, if

we take it out of the 401k and we have to pay taxes and a 10% penalty because he's under 59, um, should we do that?

>> No. >> No. >> This is this was money whether you remembered doing it or not, this was money that you guys specifically set aside for retirement. Therefore, it's wrapped it's wrapped up in retirement

boundaries. And if you pull it out of those boundaries, you're going to be hit with fees. You're going to be hit with taxes. Um, and that's what that you're

un unplugging an investment. So, no, I would not do that. What I would do is roll that money to an IRA. Um, a direct transfer rollover, meaning you're not pulling it the money out.

You're just rolling it over. Therefore, you're not paying the taxes on it. Um, what you need to do with this debt is approach it the way that we would tell anybody um to pay off their debt, Ken. And that's using your income via side hustles, via your your real income, and cut back in your budget.

That's the way to attack debt, not to unplug your future investments.

>> Um, together we we do ride at $100,000 a

year. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you told me Go ahead.

>> I was just going to say we don't really have any other debt. Our cars are paid off. Um, we do have a house, but that's our only other debt. So, um, not picking on you, but digging in here, >> what led to $80,000?

That's not a shopping spree.

>> It It's not. Um, so I mean, some of it was just uh we felt like have to like uh

we were um we were attacked by Hurricane Harvey, which destroyed our house >> and that had to be redone. And then I had cancer, so MD Anderson doesn't really care. That deductible has to be paid. And then those are legit in my opinion. But the other it's just crap.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Definitely knew better. >> And the reason I asked that is is because we ask this question a lot.

You're calling us on what to do to pay it off. And I love that. But have the

both of you had your I've had it moment

where you go, okay, despite what has

happened, we're not going to play armchair quarterback. We're not doing that again. Are we at that moment?

>> Yes. God love him. And I think he is listening. um he's he hasn't been quite

on uh on board with me and I think he's

there now. So, hence the okay, let's either do the 401k or let's set it into the budget, but let's do something.

>> Okay. So, let's give us I'm I'm glad you guys are ready to do something. Let's make sure we're making the next right step, right? Because we don't want to do things out of desperation. We don't want to do things with the right intent but the wrong uh methodology. Okay? So, let's do it the right way. Um, you guys are making what? 6,400 a month. Does that sound about right? 6,300.

>> It does. >> Okay. Are you currently investing still?

>> Um, so the company he's with now, they I

think they pull out a little bit. So, they they pull out um it's a match on his 401k.

>> Okay. So, let's pause that because you guys need all the money you can get to pay off this debt super duper fast. And I understand that saying that strikes fear in the heart of many because you're thinking what? >> I need to stack up the money. But you are just willing to drain a 401k for

this purpose. So surely we can go ahead and just pause the the investing for now. Keep the 111 plugged in. And what we're going to do is we're going to take all these credit cards and we're going to list them smallest to largest.

And we're gonna keep paying minimum payments like you have been. But all the extra money that you can get your hands on, we're going to throw it at the smallest debt.

>> Um, not a whole lot. We have a daughter in college as well, so there's not a lot left over, but I don't think honestly we're as disciplined as we could be.

>> Understood. I like that honesty. >> Are you double income? I didn't pay attention. I'm sorry. I thought I heard his income. >> You are or you are not?

We own a small business and then he works for a home builder.

>> And the total was 100,000 a year >> right around there. Yes, ma'am. Okay. >> And the reason I asked that question is is there are there opportunities for either one of you to make some more money for a season?

>> Um I have side hustles because ours is

ours is uh our business is clothing related and so I have all of that um

outside online possibilities. And then

he is uh salary and bonus based. So yes.

>> So what do you do uh aside um or in

addition to I should say to the hundred,000, what are you doing with the side hustles? What does that bring in?

>> Oh my goodness. I I don't have like a number I can tell you, >> but it's also not enough that you even it's on your and I I I my point here I'm making is if it were a a decent chunk

that number would be readily available in your brain. And I think that's the challenge I'm making. >> Or if your or if your budget if you're really on your budget, >> fair, but it's not a whole lot of money and it's not very consistent. And so we need to change that is my point because we got a big hole.

>> What Ken is what Ken is saying and I I want to double down on this for anybody listening is when you have a debt problem like this, there's two ways you can tackle it. What Ken is saying, which is you money, right? This doesn't happen. It's not a magic trick. You got to put some money into the budget. And the other thing is, yeah, you can cut expenses, but sometimes when you've got a kid in college or you've got daycare or private school or these other things, they are starting to eat at that margin.

So, there's really only so much that you can cut from the budget. So, yeah, the other part which is going out and generating more and more income that can be such a huge part of this and I think that's going to be the case for you guys as too, Kimberly. Um, that's the way this works. There's not I wish there was an easy button to push, Ken. >> I do too. I do too. But we have got to get more income. And this is specifically to your case.

>> Mhm. >> So, let me make another suggestion. And

I and I'm only making this as a suggestion. Um, with these side hustles

in this season where we're trying to make as much as we can to pay off this debt quickly, >> uh, or as quick as possible, shall we say, >> uh, you're going to have to weigh your time. Yes. >> The amount of time, Jade, that she is putting into these hustle. I could see you doing your coaching.

You've done some cool videos where you sit with somebody. We I know you you would be like, "All right, how much time a week?" And this is the question, Kimberly, that you got to weigh through. You don't have to answer it specifically because our time is short.

>> That's right. >> Any money-making venture and how much money am I bringing in? because I might need to pause all of that and go get myself a job at XYZ to bring an

additional three, four,

five grand a month. >> Yeah. >> For a season. >> Yes. >> To make a big debt and 80,000 plus of

credit card debt. >> When you're in debt, now is not the time to get jobs that you like cuz you just like it. Right. Now is the time to get the highpaying job, the highpaying side hustle. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It's a short-term sacrifice.

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All right. So, I want to talk about uh something that's happened recently in the news because we're the largest money show in the world and and I don't want

to have our heads in the sand >> and uh so let's just talk about some reality. So, saw some data recently, Jade, that 70% of millennials are have a favorable view of socialism.

Now, I make that statement and a lot of you get real nervous. There's a lot of emotions right now and that's okay because we're going to be adults and we're going to step into something that needs to be talked about and that is the affordability crisis in America. Now, I start with that data, Jade, because you hear that and you go, "What?"

And some of you may go, "Oh, these whatever whatever whatever insults that you might come up with, you're outraged by that." I understand that.

>> Affordability. They're outraged by the affordability crisis. >> No. Outraged that 70% of millennials view >> socialism favorably. Okay. All right. So then we have a big election and mom

Donnie becomes he's a is a a vowed socialist. He becomes the mayor of New York. That creates a lot of emotions.

You're going to see a lot of headlines.

That guy's name and what he stands for is going to be in the news a lot.

>> Yeah. >> So I'm addressing this not from a political standpoint but from a financial economic standpoint.

>> Okay. So, whatever your emotions and feels are, here's what I want to point out. The reason that 70% of millennials,

and I don't know the numbers on Gen Z, but I'm raising three, but the why would

a large chunk of Americans view socialism with some favorability. I'm going to tell you why. There's three major financial reasons why. Number one, student debt. We talk about student debt on this show all the time. It's gotten bigger and bigger and more expensive. It is a full-blown crisis. If you've ever listened to me, I've talked about it. I think the federal government should not be in the banking business. And that's what they're in when they are financing student loans. That's right. And the colleges, Jade, and the universities get the money immediately.

>> They get it immediately. So, when a kid signs up FAFSA and all that junk, they get the loan. Boom. Guess who gets paid?

>> University cashes. >> That's right. And then these students become young adults, become young professionals, become middle-aged professionals, >> and then they calling us >> and they're calling us under the unbearable burden. It feels like now it's bearable. We teach them how to get out of it. But let's talk about the problem. >> So student loans, it's a crisis. It's a hook. And the federal government is on

the back of people with student loans.

Not only is the student loan thing a problem, but the affordability of tuition, Jade, is a problem. The universities keep ratcheting up the cost of tuition. >> Yes, they are. cuz they're getting paid.

They're getting paid immediately.

>> Number two, affordable housing.

>> Real estate. I was hoping it was on your list. >> It's it's it's the biggest of the three, but affordable housing. I'm seeing reports that sometime in the next 6 months or so, we will see the average age of a firsttime home buyer, I can't even believe I'm saying this, Jade, be 40 years of age or older.

>> But we know, I mean, you and I, we deal with that every day. You and I did the math on it the other day. If you if you're making $100,000 and you pick a house for, I don't know, $375,000

and you know, we can run the math on that, but you're going to be putting 60% down for that to be 25% of your take-home pay. >> That's exactly right. >> You can do it, but it's going to take a long long time. >> Long time. I'm glad you mentioned that.

>> So, add that into the emotion. You you've written a book about emotion and money, what no one tells you about money. Well, I'm gonna get real >> and marry politics and economics for a second. >> The third factor, >> the skyrocketing cost of health care

>> and the spotty coverage. We take those calls every day. Now,

if you're still with me, and I don't care if you're a conservative or a liberal, I'm not making a political statement. I'm talking about the reality of the affordability crisis in America, and I've given you the big three.

>> It's expensive. >> Now, let me play this out.

And I'm not justifying anybody's views on socialism, but I am a realist and I'm a co-host of the largest money show in the world. And we help people dig out of these problems. Now, you take those three things. Let me review very quickly.

Student debt, unaffordable housing, skyrocketing health care with spotty coverage. Take all three of those things and you put them together. And millennials, younger millennials for sure, Jade and Gen Z,

they have never experienced positive capital. What I mean by that is the true usage of the word money.

>> They feel like they have been and they are behind the eight-ball for anyone if

not all three of these combined.

>> Understood? So therefore, the system of capitalism as they know it doesn't work

very well.

>> They have to listen to us old heads to try to tell them. >> So me, Dave, I'll say it. I'm all pro- capitalism, but I am being realistic today as a 51-year-old Gen Xer who has

thrived because of capitalism. My experience with capitalism is very different than theirs. And so I'm just simply pointing out for a moment because this could tear our c country apart and I'm going to make a case today to bring it together.

>> Ken, go for it.

>> Okay. So there's the setup.

I don't think that they're evil. I don't think they're idiots. I don't think they should be ridiculed and made fun of and marginalized. I think they need to be stood up for. And so I'm going to make a suggestion that those of us who have won because of capitalism and experienced the fruit of it, the burden now becomes

on us as we the people if we believe what we say we believe that we now have to collectively put pressure on all politicians, local, state, federal, both

sides of the aisle and say maybe we the

people should vote these lunatics and

these idiots out if they don't work on

policy by creating policy or changing

policy to make things affordable.

Period.

Now, I can say that as as a host of the Ramsay Show because I am not at the mercy of someone with an opinion because I have an experience. M I've a benefited from capitalism and b I've coached thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people and we will take more calls today of people that are dealing with this affordability crisis in America and we the people have one option to start to collectively say let's take on these three issues >> and so as a as a guy who gets this unbelievable privilege >> from a money perspective >> yes >> and you don't come at me cuz a I will not read the comments and James Charles will tell you.

>> What can you come at, Ken? I feel like that's the most difficult thing that I've heard in a long time. >> So, both parties are on the hook for this.

Both parties are on the hook.

>> Yeah. >> And we the people are on the hook to say, "Wait a second. Let's take these three issues alone, affordable housing, the student loans, and the tuition crisis, and health care cost, and let's do something about it. And we've got to make our voices heard. I'm not talking about violence, but I am talking about the one thing that these politicians care most about is their preservation, Jade. They just want to keep getting reelected, >> voted in. >> So, at some point, this is coming to a

head. And I don't want our audience to

get sucked into >> what the mom Donnie election means

>> and what millennials flirting or liking

socialism means. Don't get fearful. Get active. Because I can tell you this, if anything unites the American people, it would be those three issues. >> Yeah, we can all agree that it's out.

That's a big tent. I think we could all say, how many in this giant audience think that af housing affordability should be lower? Everybody's raising their hands. How many in this audience think that health care should be more affordable and better coverage?

That's everybody in this audience. How many people think that the that the the rising tuition in America is out of control and the student loan thing is a crisis and we should get out of the student loan business? How many think that maybe these universities should raise their own freaking dollars? Oh, or use what's already in those giant endowments and pay for bright young students to get educated.

Every hand in the audience goes up. I'm not running for anything. I'm just pointing out that what could break our great nation is this affordability issue and it's solvable.

less stressed country, a far less pissed-off electorate. I just I'm throwing it out there. Ladies and gentlemen, Ken freaking Coleman on the

topic. Way to go, Ken.

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All right, this is fun. Uh, we're going to go to a video call from Brienne. I hope I'm saying that right. In Portland, Oregon. Brienne, hi. How are you?

>> Hi guys. Thanks for having me on.

>> Oh, we're thrilled to have you on. You look fabulous, by the way. So fun. Love the video call. What's going on? How can we help today?

>> Uh, I have a spending addiction that I just can't seem to get over. I've been trying to follow the baby steps, but it's really hard for me. So, I'm just kind of looking for your advice on that.

>> Tell us a little bit more. What is this uh what can you what do you feel comfortable telling us about this particular addiction? Is it just across the board spending or is it one or two categories or one thing? What is it?

>> Yeah. So, it's fast food cuz I have such a busy schedule that I don't plan for making dinner. So, I spend money on fast food.

I spend a lot of money on my daughter.

Um, I spend money on other people. And then like at the bottom of the list is splurging on my own stuff.

>> Okay. And and what give us an idea? Have you been tracking how much you're spending in all these categories on a monthly basis?

>> Yeah, I use every dollar. So, it's probably about a,000 to,200 a month.

>> Wow. And what's your total income for a month? >> It's about Oh, for a month it's probably

4,800. >> Oh, so ma'am, you don't have the margin to be splurging like this, >> right? No. >> I mean, that's like if you do have a $2,000 a month, that's half your income.

Yeah. >> Do you have debt as well?

>> I do. I have a total of probably 90,000

in debt. >> Whoa. Okay. You know, we're going to break this down. Give us the list. Smallest to largest.

>> Yeah. My medical debt is four a little

over 4,000. Credit cards 9,100.

And then personal loans 51,600.

And my student loans are 20,000.

>> Who are these personal loans to?

So, before I found you guys, I had a debt consolidation loan. Okay.

>> Um, and then we got pipes on our house

back when I was with my ex. Um, and we're still paying that off. And then a car. >> So, if I shoot straight with you, I mean, I I'm wondering if I already heard it um when you were talking about your ex. What do you think's behind this?

Because there's always something behind it. >> What? >> It's trauma. Definitely trauma. Um, and I'm trying to work through that, but I'm trying to figure out how to stop this overspending while I'm working on my trauma history. >> Are you When you say working on the trauma history, you see in a professional? >> I am. Yeah. >> Great. And you feel like you're making progress? >> I think so. Yeah. And I've started a couple groups with some others who've been through the same thing. >> Okay. >> So, in in a I'm thinking through this.

I'm trying to be thoughtful here. If it were a spousal situation and the two were together and one of them had an addiction, I would say this person doesn't need access to the money. Right.

>> Right. I'd say the the other spouse who was able to take care of the money, who can be trusted to take care of the money, needs to help. So, I'm almost wondering if there's someone in your life who can be that person for you to say, "Hey, uh, let me walk alongside you

to make sure because with $4,800 and with a daughter and with $90,000 of debt, we cannot keep spending $2,000. Is

there someone that you can trust to kind of walk with you and kind of

>> not not not take you out of it completely, but for them to be more in charge of having that accountability with you?

>> Yeah. I have a close friend who's actually offered to do that. For me, it's just releasing that control of it.

>> That's hard.

>> But here's what we have to ask ourselves. What if we don't?

>> What if you keep doing this over and over? Yeah. >> Where will you, you know, a year from now, you're going to look up and say, "Okay, am I going to be the same? Am I going to be worse off or I'm going to be better?" >> And right now, if you continue down this path, you're going to be worse off.

>> Yeah. >> So, something has to shake.

>> Yeah. Let's Okay. So, first of all, can I say something? You're amazingly brave to call in on a video call and go, "Hey, I have a spinning addiction." So, I want to tell you something because I think you need to hear it. Like, you're way tougher than than a lot of people. So, I

want you to harness that. Now, I I'm a big fan of therapy. I am no therapist, nor have I played one on TV, nor am I going to try to be one. But I would love to know, what has your therapist said to you in and and that you're comfortable sharing as it relates to uh tools or

some type of uh process that they're

probably giving you when you get to an emotional place. And let's say we're driving home and you know you've got an old pot roast in the fridge, >> but you really want to pull over to your favorite place and get a combo. Tastes good, feels good, all the things. What has been shared, if any, from your therapist on tools or how we're processing because I'm going somewhere with the answer. What what what can you share? >> So, I'm in EMDR therapy and she has we

recently worked on this where >> you kind of go and play from the beginning. Mhm. >> of >> the scenario like I'm driving home and then play through this scenario. What would happen if I were to go drive to this fast food place and get a burger and then drive home and then >> there's that meat in the fridge that's almost ready to expire.

So, kind of walking through it and then reshaping it in your head what it would look like if you were to just drive home and use the food you have.

>> I haven't really used it yet because it was just this last week. Okay, great.

So, when was the last time uh and and so you're being real with this, when was the last time that you spent in one of those categories that you led the call off with that was the addictive stuff?

When was the last time?

>> Uh probably last week.

>> Okay, good. Okay. So, I the reason I went to this is I love what you said, Jade. Think in this situation, you have got to get to a place where while you're

getting the the help and the therapy and you're dealing with the trauma, you've got to find something to replace that

band-aid spend. And you've got to find

something that goes, >> I've got to look at something else. And instead of something that makes me feel good, I would start thinking about something that makes me feel really bad attached to said spending. Right? So, if

I'm tempted to buy something for my daughter because I show her love.

>> And, by the way, I've been guilty of this. And you're smiling. >> Yeah. >> It makes you feel good. See, you feel bad about yourself a lot, don't you?

>> I do. Yeah. >> So, when you buy something for your daughter, it makes you feel really good and the endorphins release and there's dopamine and you're like, "Okay, I feel really crappy. Let me go buy something for my daughter." What I think you're have to start doing is is like, "I feel crappy." Mhm. >> How do I process these emotions? What are the tools my therapist has given me?

That's first. Second, if it were me, Jade, I would go to if I buy something from my daughter that I cannot afford to make myself feel good because she shows me love and happiness, I am further penalizing her and me and putting me further in a hole. And that's what I mean by going to the negative consequence of the addictive spending.

And I think you've got to spend more time there to go, "Oh, the pain of that is far greater than the pain I'm feeling because what somebody did to you and said to you." I What are your thoughts on that? >> I mean, I think that's all valid. I I go to the practicality of it. I go to James Clear and I think about systems and putting those systems in place so you can actually win.

That's why I mentioned what I mentioned earlier. If I were in your shoes, I think it would take an incredible amount of willpower, but I think I would go tonight and I would set up everything on automation and I would say when I get paid on these days, my bills get paid automatically. And you want to know what I would do?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yep. >> Do you have them close by? >> Because here's the thing.

If you need if you need money, you can walk into a bank, you can withdraw it. That requires a lot more work. It requires a lot more thought. But in that time, that also gives you the time that if you're feeling that way, you can call your buddy up and say, "Hey, remember I told you about this thing?

I need you right now because I'm about to go in here and make a a withdrawal slip so that I can go buy myself a burger so I can go buy my daughter something." And so now we put another level of friction in between you and doing the thing that you know you shouldn't be doing. And I'm no therapist. I can't even pretend to be one, but that's just something on the practical level that could help you today.

>> um, are your credit cards close by?

>> Uh, no, I don't. No, they're across the room. >> Okay. If we were to give you an opportunity, say, to walk across the room and get those cards and bring them back on camera, would you cut them up right now?

>> Um, you wait a second. You called, you called us and you said, "I need help with addictive spending." I think Jade makes a good point. I think we cut them up. Now, >> you give yourself a certain amount of money for groceries. Let your buddy hold it. >> You in or not? We're not going to force it. You in or not? You want freedom?

>> So, my my debit cards to my bank account. >> Not your debit. Your credit cards. You want to cut them up?

>> Oh, I already cut out the credit cards.

>> She cut them up. >> I would have let the debit ones go, too.

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All

right, that was uh that was real real.

>> Yes. >> You know, like when you talk to somebody like Brienne who's dealing with a spinning addiction, owns it, that she's had some past trauma, a single mama, I mean, that's as real as it gets >> and that's tough stuff. And uh you know, you you were sharing with me, you know, you were sharing with her. I I think for her, for anybody that's in those shoes, I thought you had a really great here's what I would do step by step, and I wanted you to share that cuz I think it's really good.

I mean, you did with her, but I'd love for you to to really re recap that. Well, it's definitely probably the most extreme piece of advice I've given, but she seemed like she was in in an extreme situation.

know, whatever her bills are, uh, rent, car, insurance, so that they come out of the account automatically when she knows she's paid. And I would get with a friend, an accountability friend, and say, "Hey, I don't go to the bank to withdraw money unless you're with me, and I can go to withdraw money for groceries, and I can withdraw money for gas, and then you go with me to the grocery store, and you go with me to the gas station." And that is that's just a practical thing because we said that can because if it's a a spousal situation, we can give the money to the other spouse to handle and we can lock oursel out of it.

She has to find a way and a system to lock herself out to keep her safe until she can work through the trauma with her her counselor. So, >> and uh by the way, I mean the allnew Every Dollar app uh and it's really no longer it's not an app.

this show.

>> 20X. In other words, it's a digital

coach. >> Yeah, it is. >> And you answer the questions, you dive into it, it's going to send you specific content. You get an actual free 10-minute coaching call with one of our actual coaches. >> Um I if you're in the shoes of Brienne or anybody that's going, "Hey, I need to get control of my money." I'm telling you, every dollar is the play. Um

>> the average person, by the way, is finding thousands of dollars in margin in the just first 15 minutes. By the way, if you take 15 minutes and answer questions honestly, what you get in return is a digital coach walking alongside of you. It is so fantastic.

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getting it in the app store or Google Play. Josh is up in Tampa, Florida.

Josh, how can we help today?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

>> Yeah, you bet. What's happening in your world? >> So, me and my wife, um, we rent

currently and we're we're contemplating whether we should buy a home or not. Uh, but we do have some debt that we've been knocking out. We've been following the baby steps and have every dollar. We've been really attacking it since about February. Um, but total debt we have

between everything is $73,000.

And so we bring home together um bring

home about $8,600 per month. And after

bills and everything is paid for, um, we're doing pretty good. We have about $1,500 a month left over, which is what we've been doing, attacking >> the the credit card debt we I mean, we've already paid five off since February. So, we just really just >> um you know, got our our savings and everything um good to go through baby step one. What?

>> So, really, my question is is should we just keep attacking the debt? Our rent is relatively cheap. What is it? >> Um 850.

>> 850. So, what's the rest of this money going on? Minimums because 88 8,600 is a lot of money. It's just you and your wife, right?

No, we have a four-year-old and then we have a baby on the way, actually.

>> Oh, congrats. >> So, give me like 850 is super cheap.

Where where is the rest of this 8,600 going towards? Because usually the big ones are rent, daycare, insurance. Um,

so where where is yours? Is it car payments?

>> Yeah. So, we so my wife's car we have about 9,000 on. Okay. My truck we just got over the summer uh to cuz we knew we were my car was small so we knew we had to get something bigger now.

>> And what's the payment on that? >> I know >> uh 710. >> Okay, there's some of it. What do you owe on it?

>> Uh 42,000. >> Listen, my guy, you already know what I'm going to say.

>> I do. Drum roll.

>> Uh you got to sell the truck, my guy.

You got to >> you got to let it go. I think you better cut it loose. Let it go. >> You got to cut it loose. Um, and I'm serious, by the way. I was making jokes, but listen, $710, I I applaud you for

putting $1,500 of margin on, but when I hear 8,600, I'm thinking it's going to be a lot bigger of a shovel than that.

>> Um, so the 710, what if you

>> I don't know if you've looked, but what could you get for that truck? Kelly Blue Book private sale.

>> Uh, I I I haven't looked. I would guess around 38,000. >> 38. Okay. So, if I'm you, would you

rather have $4,000 of debt >> or $42,000 of debt?

>> Right. True.

>> So, I think that's the play. Now, you've got a little bit of of time. You're you're not pressed for time. I don't think you need to go get a loan for it. I think you can save up the difference.

Uh because I think you do have more margin than you think. We're going to give you every dollar if you don't already have it. >> Do you have it? >> Yeah, we do have every dollar. We do. We do have every dollar. >> Okay. go through that budget and crunch those numbers because I think you have more margin than 1,500. Um because I

want you to save up $4,000 really fast

>> to clear this. Can I jump in on this one? >> Yes, Ken. >> She's right. But I wonder if you could earn $4,000.

>> You're a young guy. You got some skills.

>> Um >> yeah, I've been doing Door Dash on the side randomly, you know.

>> No, we don't do Door Dash randomly.

Sorry. I was all fired up and then you stepped into that one. You've got limited time. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And we need Have you ever heard the old phrase, time is money?

>> Right. >> So, we don't And listen, I'm not knocking Door Dash, but in your situation, I believe you can make a whole lot more money than you're making for the time you're exchanging. Do you agree with that?

>> Sure. Yeah. >> All right. What skill sets do you have? Let's get real. >> What skill sets do you have, experience do you have in the workforce?

>> Listen. Um well I'm a so I'm a Navy veteran and then um so my job in the

military I actually do um I'm a minister so we that's that's what I do and then my wife is a banker. >> Okay. >> Um and then >> you got any trade skills? You got any you know u you know where you can sling a hammer or do anything like that? uh renovation work. If you can't, can you work in a manufacturing situation and work the crazy shifts and make really good money an hour slinging boxes around? You get my point?

>> Absolutely. >> In other words, what can you do in your area that'll make you the max amount of money to get back into where Jade's talking about? I want you saving. She's right. But what if we could also What if Jade we could save four and make four?

>> Back to you. I love that because now you're going to have the cash to buy something >> that's older, much less expensive, way

more miles, right? But it's just a a band-aid until you can get the rest of this debt paid off. Then you can move up in car. Now, here, let let me tell you what's going to happen. >> You're going to get off this call and what we have said to you is really going to sink in and you're going to say, "Hold on. They told me to sell my truck.

I just got this truck. Wait a minute.

They're telling me to work extra hours. I have a pregnant wife." And you're going to question whether or not the

first thing you called in, which is you want to be out of debt. You're going to question of if the methodology is worth

the result. That's what you're going to question. That's what your emotions are going to cause you to do when you go home. Then you're going to tell your wife about it and she's going to add hers to the mix. >> And you're going to have to sift through all that. And what I'm asking you to remember is what I want you to sort

through what you want now, which is you want to keep your car and you want to be home. But I want you to compare that with what you want most. So you need to think about that tonight. What do you want most?

Is it the way the house feels when you bring the newborn baby home? Is it how it's going to feel to be able to sit down with your wife and the debt not come up in the conversation and cause another fight? Right? These are the things that you need to think through because what we're asking you to do is not any small little thing, >> right?

>> Fair enough. But you're also talking to two people who have done the things that we're we are not Ken and I are not going to tell you to do anything we haven't done ourselves. >> Facts.

>> So, at the beginning of the year, yes.

on once we found you guys and started doing, you know, the baby steps and every dollar and then, you know, we cut out a lot of I mean, we found that, >> you know, 1,500 a month left over basically. >> I'm going to tell you something. When you get off the call, like she said, you're going to feel a range of emotions. Can I give him I know it's a it's before it comes out. Let's give him a copy of What No One Tells You About Money. It's the emotional playbook here.

It's so needed for you, my friend, cuz she's right. what we told you to do is not fun. Uh, so hang on the line. We're

going to give you a copy. It's not even out yet. We're going to give it to you because you need this book. So Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, available ramiesolutions.com/store.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to have you with us.

The phone number to jump in so we can help out isle8255225.88255225.

Allan is up in Dallas, Texas. Allan, how can we help today?

Yeah, thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. >> My girlfriend and I are in our 60s. We

are financially independent and we're discussing marriage and this would be the second marriage for both of us.

>> Mhm. >> And I've heard numerous times on your program there is no his or hers in marriage is just ours. >> Yes. of our situation I think may be

have extenduating circumstances and I am needing help processing those variables before she and I sit down and discuss it. >> Okay. Well, so let's start with these extenduating circumstances. I doubt we're going to change our opinion, but hey, give us a shot. What are these

extinguating things where you go, I don't know, Ken, we may be the one case where we keep everything separate.

>> Sure. Well, okay. We each have a trust

and those trusts are set up for our estates, our children, our grandchildren. >> Okay. >> And we would have a prenup to protect them in the event one of us pass. It's we're we're both Christians. We're faith-based marriage. We we volunteer.

We work for our church. >> Sure. >> So, the prenup's not because we might get divorced. It's what happens when one of us passes. >> Sure. >> Okay. We each own our homes outright and

we'll keep both of them, but we'll live in hers.

And if she passed before I did, I would

be able to stay in that house um and as long as I wish, but then it would go to her children. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, what I think about is

home improvements.

Let's say, well, if we do home improvements, it's it's her house. I

benefit because I live there.

>> But in my opinion, that's something that she would pay for.

>> And if we bought one of us bought a new vehicle, well, whomever wanted that vehicle would be the one to pay for it.

>> Mhm. >> Um, >> so you're keeping it separate. >> I see is >> Yes. Keeping those separate. Well, if you keep that separate, you are keep let's be honest, like I I do think if

you keep things like buying cars

separate, if you keep things like doing home renovations separate, I mean, your money is separate. I I I don't mind the fact of you guys protecting the trust through a prenup. I It's almost like the stuff that was in the past, I'm okay with it being protected and having that protection around it. But the things that are you you're doing going forward, I'm okay with that being together because if you buy a new car, is that in the trust? No. That's that's you guys

living your current life together. And so you guys together get to decide who you know what will happen to this if either of us passes? That sort of thing.

And you know, with the houses, I might be inclined for you guys to do something

where you don't keep both of those homes and you buy something together and start your life together because the more you keep things separate and try to keep your previous life alive to a certain extent, it's going to be very messy for you. What's the benefit of keeping both of your old homes versus selling them,

taking the money together, and buying something you really like together and then willing it that it's split equally amongst your heirs?

>> She really loves her home. Like, she

loves her home. And I am not overly

attached to mine. I would actually keep mine um my home is near my kids

>> and so I would keep it as an overflow house. Um I might stay there some, we

might stay there some when I have other kids come in from out of town. It would just it would be kind of just for my family's use. >> Yeah, I I I slightly different uh I I

don't mind Jade's suggestion, but I'm not I'm I wasn't going to make any changes on the house thing. I'm with you, Jade, 100%. And I think the trusts are what they are. I think the houses

>> uh again uh it's it's a sticking point

because your your wife to be we're going to assume that you guys get married or your girlfriend that house she's got in the will. It's going to the kids. They've got separate kids. I get that.

Uh but I would say to you answer your question. >> Um I do think your finances need to be combined. I agree with you. I just I don't really care about the houses. is the house situation and the trust I'd say is kind of excluded, but I agree with Jade 100% and I don't think we change our tune. Unless unless uh you

have some sort of trust issue with her in combining finances, which you should get married anyway. >> He's wondering about making upgrades to her house. >> I know I'm getting there. I think that I'm with you.

I agreed with you that it's whether it's her house from the past or not. If they're living there, >> it's not the uh renovation for the new bathroom comes out of her account. No, it's our account. I think you guys should combine checking and savings accounts.

You are married. You're doing life together. The trust and the houses being >> staying where they are. Totally fine.

>> If he puts if he puts money into that house, but it's all aired to her kids, what does that mean for him?

But I'm saying I agree with you. But that's the part it's that's going to be very hard to navigate because then you're going to have to every year >> do some sort of thing to the trust where you're saying uh you know here's the value of the house but this much is going over to you know his side of the family. I'm telling you >> and that and that wouldn't happen.

>> That's why >> I would think >> so here's here's devil's advocate.

>> Okay. >> I'm living in this house for free, >> right? She's not going to charge me to live there. you're married to her and that that hold on let me stop because that is the crux of all of this as long as this persists that will be the the the the language >> and you've got to be able to move past that and the only way to move past that is to say okay what was in the past is in the past and sometimes when we enter into a relationship there are sacrifices that we make for that person that's just part of it uh when Sam and I got married I moved from where I was living and I moved in with him I changed my I sacrificed certain things about my life.

He sacrificed certain things about his for us to come together.

It's just harder because you're 60 and you're in your life and you're in your ways and there's things that you've grown accustomed to. And I'm not I I get it. Um, but if you truly want to make

this simpler for yourselves and get the language of we, you've got to let go of what was mine. That's all I'm saying.

>> I agree. >> Yeah. I listen and by the way, you do what you want to do. You called us. So keep in mind when you call us and and you push back on something that we believe we're going to push back again.

And again, we're all friends. Uh you're very wise. You guys are in great financial situation. I just think you're overthinking this. And if I was in my 60s and I was in your situation and I had found another love >> and this was my opportunity, I would not be calling me asking the questions that you're asking. I'd be like, "Babe, let's live it up. Uh, let's go." You know?

>> I don't know. I don't know. I'd be like, "Well, what's going to happen when I put $50,000 into this renovation?"

I'd be wondering, too. >> Yeah. But you're like contradicting yourself. >> No, because it's her house. It's his house. If I If you're like, "Babe, I'm ready to go, but we move into your house and all my money spent renovating your house, that's going to go to your area." >> How much money you going to spend on this woman in a in a year just cuz you love her? >> How much? $100,000.

>> Yeah, get over the freaking kitchen renovations, man. >> Listen, I'm looking across the glass and Will Rudder is right on with me. He knows. He knows what's up.

>> But you're marrying her. The h >> and exactly that's >> she wants a kitchen. It's called happy wife, happy life. >> Then I my go buy a house where we both love the kitchen >> together. >> You're spending more of his money. I'm fine with that, too. >> You know what I'm I get where you're at, but I mean the way he's asking it, I'm just like, we're worrying about stuff that quite frankly in your 60s, getting married a second time, you shouldn't be worried about

All

right, Jade, I'm going to tell you something you already know, but everybody needs insurance.

>> See, you knew that. >> I did know. Yes. >> Uh but uh it can be a little bit sticky.

It's not fun. Let's be honest, most of the time trying to find out, you know, who's looking to make a buck versus an agent who knows their stuff and they got your best interest in mind. Uh, but that's why you need a Ramsay trusted insurance pro because you never have to deal with all the sleazy gross stuff.

Uh, cuz Ramsay has vetted these fine folks and they care about what they're doing. They care about you. They have the heart of a teacher. They have your best interest in mind.

And so go to ramseysolutions.com/coage to find the type of insurance you're looking for because keep in mind, you're trying to win with money. Some of you aren't covered enough. And so if something bad were to happen, it could really knock you off the path. Or some of you are overinsured and you could use a little bit of money back in that every dollar budget >> to get ahead.

Stephen is up in Montgomery, Alabama.

Alabama rather. Stephen, how can we help?

Yeah. So, mine um is kind of a two-part

question, I guess. I uh me and my wife, we are looking to purchase land and build a house. Uh but I want to be debtree before doing so. Um I'm self-employed and so I'm trying to figure out my savings um that I currently have, how much of that can I put toward my debt to not drop my savings too low since I am self-employed.

Um, and so trying to figure that out be

and also trying to figure out how do I figure out when it is time to buy the land and build the house what I can afford with what I make if that makes sense cuz you know trying to get out of the debt as quick as possible helps me get to that point. Do you have so when you talk about your savings um as a self-employed person do you have money set aside in your business as retained earnings and then you have a personal savings set aside or how is it >> how's it arranged? >> Yeah.

So there's a little bit. Yeah.

>> Okay. I would keep what's in the business in the business. Um I I wouldn't pull that out. Um how much is it? Just curious.

Um and so in the personal uh combined is

60. So in the personal is 50 and then the uh in the personal is 50 and then 10 in the in the business. >> Okay. Yeah. What kind of business is it?

>> That's what that look like.

>> Um so it's um do roofing.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and keep that 10,000 there. I think I'm I'm not sure how your business runs, but my guess is it's there for a reason. Um and

you want to keep being able to run.

>> Say I guess is Yeah. Yeah. So I own I own the business. So there's obviously in >> in that business there's a lot more money than what's in I should have specified that basically that pays my corporation. So my corporation is what I'm talking about. But in the actual business because I own it with a partner there's a lot more money in that. So that business pays my corporation if that makes sense. >> Got you. Um >> I would keep that separate for now.

>> Okay. >> Because it seems like it's going to be cleaner for you. But you've got $50,000 saved. That's your money. Let's talk about that. Um the way the baby steps work, which is the framework that we're always going to teach people how to handle their money through, >> uh is the first thing you need to do after setting aside $1,000 just as a

basic, you know, barrier between you and

life. The next thing we do is we take all the money we can find and we throw it at our debt. That includes savings, income, selling things, selling off stocks, crypto, that sort of thing.

Basically, everything's at stake except your retirement for the most part, right, Ken? Y >> um and of course you don't have to sell your house, but do you see what I'm saying? So for you, yeah, I would keep $1,000 aside and I would take 49 and I would throw it at >> whatever debt you have. How much debt do you have?

>> Um we just had a baby, so I don't know

what that amount is. Without that, we're looking at 5055. It's for two vehicles

and some back tax stuff from when I was a teenager. Basically, >> tell us about those vehicles. What do you owe on each?

>> So, I owe 15 on one, 30 on the other.

>> What are they worth?

>> Um, truck that's I owe 15 on and it's

basically my work vehicle is probably worth 20 and the SUV um is worth

basically what what I I want it.

>> Okay. So, I would be looking to get out of that SUV today >> instantly. And then I would take maybe

$8,000 of your money that you have saved and buy something in cash. >> I agree. And let me let me play the math on the back end of that advice. She's right. What is that SUV payment right now >> monthly? >> Uh 55 550 somewhere's around there.

>> Okay. So if you do the math what Jade told you, so she's giving you an $8,000 car is not going to be exciting, but it is going to be functional and it helps get you going on this. And now, not only that, you've got you freed up another $500 a month to throw at debt.

>> Mhm. >> That's why that's a beautiful recommendation. >> And you're not going to have to now drill down on your savings as much as you thought because now you can reach over, you can pay off the $15,000 car.

>> And then what's that leave you with?

Another 15 somewhere.

>> What else did you have?

>> Two cars. >> Yeah. So, there's the Yeah, there's the two cars, which is 1315. And then there is 9,000 in back taxes.

>> Okay. Okay. And then you can reach over and you can pay off the back taxes.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> What do you think about that? >> So even with So I don't mind that at all. I My worry was being self-employed if work gets slow or something happens.

>> Well, you'll still have >> I mean, you know, >> you'll still have you will only have to pull 24,000 uh actually plus the eight. I forgot about that. So, you'll only be pulling 32 uh from the 55,000 that you have saved.

>> Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry. From the 50 that I'm sorry, I had it written down backwards.

So, you'll pull 32 from the 50 that you have saved. So, that leaves you with a little bit.

>> Yeah. >> What do you pay yourself? What do you pay yourself a month?

>> Um, so that's a long story, but um it's

uh right now about 10.

>> All right. I I say about 10 10 to 15 is is is what

I get per month. >> So but see that urgency to get that back up because that's what you're worried about. Something were to happen. You're going I got to get paid. >> Yeah. >> But you have bigger problems. Correct.

>> Right. >> So it's like what happens when somebody gets advice like this? They go well let me think of the absolute worst case scenario and that's why I don't want to pay off my debt. But here's the deal. If the worst case scenario happens, number one, >> you got a bigger problem than than the fact that you paid off the debt. You got a problem with your business. But but what's nice is if something were to happen, you can scrap by a whole lot

better longer if you don't have all this debt. >> Yeah. >> So I just want to make sure you see the entire picture here. >> Well, you're sitting in a better situation. >> That makes sense >> to to if if the if you did what I told you to do today and tomorrow and then

Monday came and the worst happens, you would have $18,000 of emergency fund.

You would have 10,000 reserved in your part of the corporation. You would have no debt. That's pretty awesome.

>> Yeah. No, that makes that makes absolute sense. >> So, you wouldn't have to worry about making truck payments and car payments.

You wouldn't have to worry about the IRS breathing down your neck to get that money. >> I can't believe how nonchalant you are about your back taxes from when you were a teenager. I got to tell you, I heard that and and and man, I broke out. I I

need a benadryil on the break. >> Way higher. >> Huh? >> It was way higher. Way higher. I don't care. It's still around. That That sucker's got mold on it. It's been around so long. >> So, the question America wants to know is are you going to do it?

>> Which part of it will you do and which part of it won't you do? You can be honest. Tell us. >> Yeah. We won't get hurt. >> No. So, I'm Well, no. I'm going to So, the one that worries I say worry, it doesn't worry me. Is we have to find a vehicle that we have four kids. So, I

just got >> Oh, Listen, not a problem at all. Don't give me the four kids won't fit in a standard SUV because they will.

And hear me when I say not that. I'm talking about reliable that kind of worries about but still hear me when I say if you had called in and you didn't have $50,000 saved. I might be uh more

of a stickler about this, but you've got a little bit of money saved. If you want to spend $10,000, it's not the end of the world. The point is you're buying it in cash. Do you see what I'm saying?

I just bought my kid a couple years ago a $12,000 SUV and that thing's running like a top and you could put four kids in there. In fact, I've seen him with five teenage boys in there. So, I do this all the time on the show. Cracks James up, our fearless leader.

I get online minivan.

>> Yeah, there you go. You get get what you need. But my point is the point here is to get rid of the debt and to buy vehicles from here on forward in cash.

That's the point. And you get to decide how much of this you're going to keep as your emergency fund. And then you can quickly stack it up to 3 to 6 months of expenses. And you're going to be sitting pretty if you do that. >> Speaking of sitting pretty, I was laughing listening to him cuz when I was a kid, >> we would be on long road trips and I would take a nap in the back windshield.

That's how our parents did not care about seat belts. Did you I literally would lay in the back. You know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. No big deal.

>> Just back at nice warm place to take a nap.

All right, in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions on the DebtFree stage, I see two fantastic looking people over there.

We've got Thomas and Amy on the Debtree stage. I guess you're here to do a debtree scream. Is that right?

>> We are. >> Yes, we are. >> All right. Where y'all from?

>> Washington Courthouse, Ohio. Just about an hour south of Columbus.

>> An hour south of Columbus. Okay.

Fantastic. All right. Well, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

>> $138,661.

>> Wow. How long did that take?

>> Five years. >> Five years. Okay. And uh what's your

range of income during that time?

>> We started out at 101,000 and we ended last year at 143,000. I

think we're going to beat that this year. >> Oh, good. What do you guys do for a living? >> Um I'm a regional coordinator for a

Christian a international Christian ministry. Um a fantastic one, Samaritan's Purse. >> Oh, sure, sure, sure. I've traveled with I've gone on trips with them uh in my past life uh before Ramsay the work I did. So, love the organization.

>> Awesome. Yeah. And you >> I'm a correctional officer. >> Okay. You You have that look and vibe.

>> Until you smiled, I was a little nervous talking to you. I'm not going to lie to you. Did you get that vibe from him?

>> Uh I don't know. I feel like it was more than meets the eye.

>> I love it. Okay. >> Now, what now? What do you attribute the uh the growth in income um over that time?

>> Well, we've done a little bit of everything. Um, we gave plasma for a while until we got a little concerned about our health and um, I worked a second job. I would go in and work from 4:00 to 7:00 and then go change clothes and go to my real job. Um, >> Wow.

>> Tom Door Dash for a while and lots and lots of overtime. That's what he's doing right now.

>> Yes. >> Fantastic. >> Well, what kind of debt was the 138,000?

>> A lot of everything. Um, we had a couple of car loans. Um, we had credit cards, a

parent plus loan. Um, some medical bills, and just a a managerie.

>> Wow. So, what was the point that you It is. What was the point that you looked at it and said, "Something needs to change here?" Well, um, actually 10 or

11 years ago, um, one of my co-workers

in one of my previous lives, uh, had given me one of Dave's books to read >> and I read it and thought, "This is really great." And gave the book back to her and went on about my life, >> which wasn't very effective. So, um, and

then I joined Samaritan's Purse and one of the fantastic benefits that they offer is Smart Dollar. Oh, great. And so

I joined Smart Dollar and started utilizing everything, watched lots of videos and still we were kind of is. But then 2020 happened and while Tom was

considered essential um I thankfully um

was blessed not to lose my job. We worked um our tails off but did it remotely at home for a few months. But it made me realize that um something had

to change like because it could have been very easy that that we were one of those people that that lost their jobs.

So yeah, >> we kind of um got started there and that's when Tom really got on board. Um

>> yeah, I was ish

>> he was happy. He was happy for me to be the nerd and and let me do all of the things that I love. >> Financial guru, >> all the details. So, well, not a guru or we wouldn't have bid in $138,000 worth of debt.

>> Well, it's interesting you say this because I I love that you mentioned smart dollar. Smart dollar obviously is is everything we teach our program for organizations and it goes through as a benefit through HR and all that. So, when you start to experience that and you come home from work >> and you start telling them, hey, there's this plan.

You're pretty fired up, I'm guessing. Is that correct? >> Oh, yeah. >> And then Tom, I mean, you you had to be going, what? So, what was the hardest part for you uh to to to get on board

with?

>> Um, I just I didn't really

pay attention. I just was like thinking it didn't really start me anything to me until I started getting closer to retirement. >> And for me, it was about, you know, our kids >> and they they played sports and we was all involved in that growing up. And >> I just thought debt was just what it was, you know, right?

you just you lived with it and you did the best you can with it. >> But then as the more we went on to it, she was talking in my ear and getting me to watch some of the some of the things on the on the you know the >> the videos >> the videos and stuff like that. So then I started watch the videos but he was forced to watch them >> and about two years ago you know I started getting able to work a little bit more overtime. So then I started putting in the time and >> really getting involved.

Yeah. Love that. >> That's awesome. I love that.

So, what would you tell somebody who's kind of on the fence who says, "Uh, I've read the book, but I put it back on the shelf, or I have the benefit available to me, but I don't need that today." Well, the program works, but you have to work the program for it to work.

>> Communication. >> Yeah. Doesn't work. So, um, just being intentional and doing what you need to, taking the next step, doing the next thing. My problem is that I'm too detail

oriented and I wanted all the things to happen. I could see the end, but I wanted to like pull it this way and make it go quicker. Um, so just knowing that

there is timing and God's timing, you'll get it done. You just need to be intentional about what you're doing. But yeah, definitely communication and making sure that you guys are walking in

the same direction because if you're fighting your partner, it's never going to work. >> That's right. You gota you got to fight the thing that's really the enemy.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

>> What kind of support system did you guys have? >> Um each other and um our two sons, our

two um sons actually we we had one in u

a senior in high school in 2020 and a senior in college in 2020. We didn't think that through when we had children, eight years of college, but we were committed to um cash flow as much of that as we could. Um, and they are both

on plans. So, they they were we talked to them about it all the time and they're working their own plans right now. So, >> I love that. >> And our grandparent, their kids' grandparents, they took care of them whenever we were working or stuff like that.

They helped out along >> they helped out whenever sometimes whenever you know you need that little extra, >> you know, and you just you can't make the ends meet. Sometimes they help out there. So, >> yeah. >> I love that.

The hardest part for each of you, tell me. I want people to hear the real real.

>> that it took five years?

>> Five years was a long time. >> I wanted it done, >> especially for you checking all the boxes. >> Yeah, I'm a little obsessive about it. I I check my every dollar every day, multiple times a day. I wanted I knew when I hit that send button on um paying a debt, I wanted it to hit my bank so I could pull it over into the right category. And that was hard for me is is

the patience part of it. But I think that was a a lesson that God was giving me. Tom for you hardest part >> just getting involved just actually you know understanding that I needed to put out a you know to get rid of the debt so

once I retire once we retire we can do the things that you know we plan to do with our children and now the grandchild our little grandchild he's >> fun >> amazing you know you want to spend time with him and so now >> be able to do the things that you want to do >> yeah and that was what I was going to ask how old are you guys >> I'm 55 >> okay >> 54 >> 55 54 And so now on the other side of this, where are your heads and hearts about the future knowing that you've made it through this and reset your financial future?

>> Well, um, Tom's looking forward to retirement, obviously. Um, >> I can retire in March, right?

>> Next year. >> Oh, the state of Ohio says he can retire in March. He can't retire in

>> Amy said no. >> Amy's made that perfectly clear. Yeah.

>> No. Um, I plan to be with Samaritans Purse for as long as God willing. So, um, it'll be a few years for me. Um, but we we are looking at we did our our

threemonth emergency fund because we want to pay off our house and then we'll back fill that other three months, but we're not slowing down. We're not taking our foot off the gas. >> You guys are an inspiration to a lot of people. It's possible.

>> Uh, so here we go. Thomas and Amy from

Columbus, Ohio area. actually Washington courthouse to be specific. They paid off $138,661 in 5 years, making 101 to 143,000.

Congratulations. You guys take it away.

Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> Ready? >> 3 2 1 WE'RE DEBTREE.

>> OH, there it is.

>> I think we got the real Thomas. Thomas had it all very kept buttoned up. That was the correction >> correction officer. Yeah, it was like this is what happens if you do something stupid around Thomas.

>> Don't give him a night stick.

>> Oh >> no, Siri. Uh-uh. Hey, that is so

awesome, folks. It can be done. They did it. We're cheering all of you on as well. Keep it up.

Our

scripture. of the day comes from Isaiah 58:11. The Lord will guide you always.

He will satisfy your needs in a sunscorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be well, you will, excuse me, you will be like a well-watered garden, like a spring whose

waters never fail. And our quote of the day from L. David Marquette, leadership is a choice, not a position. I got to tell you, I got a little distracted. Can I confess something to you? >> I got distracted, too. Was it the scripture? >> It was. >> Were you talking thinking about moisture? No, it was about the it will strengthen your frame. And you know, you know where this comes from.

>> Gohead. >> My wife and daughter Josie, you know them well. >> Yes, I do. >> They love Dancing with the Stars.

>> Okay. >> And I have to deal with that.

>> Yeah, you do. >> I don't watch it, but I I frequent the kitchen living room. You've been in our home. >> And they're always talking about the judge. The one judge who I I don't want to insult anybody, but I can't stand one of the judges. >> Okay. Okay. And >> he's always carrying on about their frame. >> And so here I am trying to do my job and

read the scripture. And it says, "And I will strengthen your frame." And I want to confess to everybody I got his judge from Dancing with the Stars carrying on about your frame.

>> That's funny. I was opposite. I'm reading the part. Toss it over here where he says, "You'll be a wellwaterched or something." >> Yeah. You'll be a well-watered garden, a spring whose waters. And I'm thinking about the conversation we had about how you're laughing at me because I always make Sam put lotion on him to be moisturized. >> I wasn't gonna bring this up. This is a whole separate subject. Uh Kelly and James, we had dinner with uh uh Jade and

Sam recently and it was a 45minute

section of our dinner where Jade and Sam

walk through their preedtime

lotion routine. And poor Sam has no

choice in all of this. >> I just want him to be a wellwatered garden. >> He is. And she straight up said, "I'm going to look great when I'm old. He has to as well." And the routine that Sam has to go through is nothing short of punishment. >> He has a skin care routine his >> that you gave him and forced upon him.

>> And you want to know what? When he's 80 and goes like this, the skin is not going to flake off. Ken, >> he's not going to make it that far. >> Would you be able to say that? >> No. >> No. And I don't want to. the the amount of life he is not living that he spends on lotion. It's I don't know it's worth the tradeoff, >> but he looks good. Come on. He's a handsome man. >> He's sexy. Okay, that's what I thought.

>> He's a handsome man. Uh Sharon in Buffalo. Sharon, how can we help?

>> Good afternoon, Jane and Candy. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Uh so my husband and I have been married

12 years. Early on in the marriage, we were debtree. Um but then he took on credit card debt. So, our finance were finances were separate. They've been separate for quite some time. >> Oh, no. >> Uh, three days ago, I found out that he

had been keeping a secret for 3 years.

>> Uhoh. >> That he co-signed on an auto loan with a

coworker that I have never met to this day. >> Oh my goodness.

>> And Yeah. And that coworker who he

doesn't even work with him anymore is struggling with addiction. Uh so they are not making their payments and

>> he he finally told me uh my husband

there a tail between his legs but uh >> Wow. >> You know it's very well had you talked to me I would have told you not to do it. >> Sure. >> And um and here we are. So uh right now

I I've never seen this vehicle. My understanding is that it's probably trashed and it probably smells like cigarette smoke. So, I have no interest in taking it over. >> How long ago was it? >> Um, uh, the that the loan was taken.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, three years ago. >> Oh gosh. >> Do we have any idea on the numbers? In other words, what's owed on it versus what it's worth?

>> Well, one day my husband tells me 20,000, the next day he says 21,000.

Honey, really and truly, how much is this? I don't know. Um, they think that if it were to go to auction, I I have no experience with with repo. I I I don't

know how any of that works, um, that they think they would get $5,000 for it

at auction.

>> So, it's in bad shape.

>> Now, did you say >> Yeah. >> Did you say that you've already separated finances?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But we still we we both own a home and we would love to try to recombine.

>> Mhm. um he has made an effort because

the issues that made us split our finances in the first place that almost split us. >> Um it was like okay let's split our finances and I continue to try to live my life debtree but every time I try to get ahead I feel like I'm I I love him dearly but he's a bit too much of a nice guy making the wrong decisions. Who's who's who's facilitating >> the conversation with you guys that's helping you see okay here's here's what

caused the split here's what must be true for you guys to come back together here like who is there a counselor helping you with this

>> there needs to be >> I think so too >> I think so too because what I'm hearing

um on your end is a woman who's almost

done

That's what I'm hearing. >> I've been there before. I I but I I know

that I I love him very very much.

>> Uh >> but he's he he he it's just like again and again and again and again, right?

>> Yeah. And there's that part of me that feels stupid because it's like, okay, as much as this hurts, he's probably going to do it again.

>> Yeah. You need you need somebody to get in between that because um this has been

a wild ride for you. And I I I mean I'm

I'm I'm not a marriage counselor. I can't help you with that. I can look at these numbers, but I don't think it's going to solve the problem here today.

>> I mean, he is he is I'm assuming fully aware of how this makes you feel and

what this does to your relationship.

Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, do you think he's in a situation and again I don't I want to be very careful the word I use here uh but

is this a character issue only or is

this he's got some type of trauma, he's got some type of addiction or something in his world to where he needs some extra help. It's not just him deciding to act like an adult.

>> I'm just curious your take.

>> I I think it's a bit character. I think it's relevant to something tragic that happened on the job >> with this worker that many years ago.

>> Yeah. >> Um even still though it regardless of that it it is a pattern. That's right.

Sometimes I describe it like if we were, you know, to go to a store and he held the door open for somebody, I might be the third person he let in, but then he's also going to stand there and continue to hold the door open for 80 people and I'm going to be standing there like, "Okay, honey, can can we go?" >> So, is it an overage of like he's just trying to help everybody too much? Is that what he's spending this money on? A crazy generosity. >> So, he's a unhealthy pleaser.

>> Yeah. >> Got it. Got it. Okay, that's insightful, but not for you, weirdly enough.

>> You know, but I I uh and you know what?

I hate to say it this way, but there is a silver lining there.

>> He just needs to figure out the person he actually needs to please a little bit more is you. >> Yeah. Um >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. And uh not in an unhealthy way u because he's not healthy, >> but prioritizing you and what you think and what you want. And >> is he willing to do therapy?

>> Yeah. So, well, the uh especially the financial piece of it because I'm not going to lie, I did propose this to AI and said, "What do I do?" But I'm >> You don't talk to freaking artificial intelligence.

>> You guys need a So, are you in a church?

Are you in some type of community where you can talk to people and go, I need three or four really great legitimate recommendations on a therapist?

>> Um, I maybe I >> No, you're not. So, you need to you need to figure out who you know that has some credibility uh that you trust, their judgment that they've been to a therapist. We're going to have to dig a little bit and uncover. Let's just not let's just go to the web and find a local therapist. >> But I think he's got to commit to this.

You have to say to him, "Never again. If you want to be in this marriage, we have to get this solved. We have to heal together. We both got our junk. Some of us did it to the other. Whatever.

There's no scorekeeping here. We got to get healthy. And if we can get healthy,

there's a great chance that the money stuff on his end gets healthy. >> Yeah. So, regarding the situation, I mean, the best thing that you're going to be able to do here is he needs to get his hands on the records to find out what is owed on this vehicle. And you guys need to start stacking up some cash so that when the time comes, whether it goes to auction or not, there is going to be a deficit for you to pay and you're going to be on the hook for it.

And that's unfortunate, but it's the way it is. >> Thank you for the call. But you got to fight for this. This is a fight for your marriage, then the finances. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace in Christ Jesus.

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## 21. Building Wealth Requires a Long-Term Investing Mindset | June 2, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NchscYq7_V4) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:29:24 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

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phones here at88255225.

That's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Leonard is in Sacramento. Hey Leonard, how are you?

>> Doing good. How are you guys today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So uh long story short, me and my wife

have uh together about $86,000 in debt.

We make about 200,000 a year. And our

current house and situation where we're living has rendered us paycheck to pay paycheck every single month. We have no money in savings. We have no dispensable money whatsoever.

>> Okay. And um what is the uh what's your

house payment?

>> So we pay rent. Um our house is 3,300 a

month. >> Okay. and and all of our other

>> Go ahead.

>> Uh all of our other like utility bills

accumulate up to about an additional uh

between 4 to 600. So we're paying about

4,000 alone in just rent and utilities.

>> What's the uh what's the uh 86,000 in debt?

Um, so we got a little marriage happy and got into a truck payment on a high

interest rate and high monthly payment.

Oh, >> so it's just one truck for 86.

>> No, the truck is we bought it for 62,000

and we currently owe 55,000 and that

55,000 has not moved at all in the past

12 months due to interest.

>> Got it. I think we've identified the problem, Leonard.

>> Yeah, >> it's one of the problems. What's the What's the payment on the truck every month?

>> Uh $1,142.70.

>> Okay, that's one of the problems. But there's something else going on here cuz you're taking home over $12,000 a month, right?

>> Yes and no. Um, I also I pay 1,500 a

month in child support.

>> Okay. >> So, uh, that that's another 1,500 per month. And then, um, we have credit cards like credit card bills that take up, you know, hundreds a couple hundred bucks a month as well, >> right? But I still got a lot going on here. >> How much is coming out for your 401k?

>> I do not have 401k.

>> How much is coming? Uh, how much of a tax refund are you getting?

>> None. IMX. Uh the past three years I

have owed like 6,000 every year.

>> Okay. >> Then this has got to be a budgeting issue. I think that you guys make a good

income and as a result of that you can get a little bit reckless. I think that's what happened with the truck. And I think that if I were to plug your numbers into every dollar, I'd see a lot of areas that would surprise you that you could cut back in. And probably a lot of them are food and lifestyle. Is that fair enough?

Are you there, >> Leonard? I >> think Leonard flew the coupe a little bit. >> Here's here's where I get that from, Dave. If he's bringing home over 12,000, he gave me 4,000 of rent. He gave me 3,000 of child support and truck payments. >> He's still got a lot left to go. That's only $7,000. >> Mhm. >> Unexplained. >> Unexplained. So, that's why I say that.

And I think that that is a key problem.

When people have an higher income, it gives you more gu more margin to act silly and more margin to get sloppy.

>> And I think that's probably what's going on here. >> Yeah. We're training the next Olympian in dance class. Uh the next MLB player

in travel ball.

>> There you go. >> Um we're eating out uh fine dining frequently. >> Um we have a wonderful vacation every year, >> but we can't make ends meet. And so yeah.

So you you're going to have to go to scorched earth on the lifestyle. Get a detailed budget. Find the margin in the detailed budget by using every dollar. It'll point the margin out to you.

It's one of the things that it's built to do. It'll show you immediately and you'll be going, "Oh my god." Every time every time somebody does it, me included, when you first do a budget, you look at it and go, >> I I'm so bad. Where's all this money going? Yes.

>> It just you have this moment. You're like, I'm stupid.

not stupid, but you're you've been doing stupid stuff. And so all of us and and so when you find that margin in there and you get that stuff going um and you sell the truck, >> you got to sell the truck. >> Sell the truck, cut off the credit cards, go to scorched earth, and you'll be out of debt and in control and have

margin um year. >> A year. >> Oh yeah. And and part of that when we talk about the budget, probably the key behavior that a lot of people don't do is you've got to track your transactions just about every day. And that's the way that you stay on top of the numbers. A key thing that I find that people do that's actually wrong is they make the budget for the month. Green check.

That's great. But then they don't check in with their budget until the end of the month, >> which means you're not living on it.

>> Theory. Yeah. And then you >> It wasn't a guardrail. It was a theory.

>> And then you track everything and you realize, oh, I was overbudget here and I was over budget there. And by that time, it spilled milk. There's nothing you can do about it. >> Yeah.

It's like you put you put uh the address in your GPS and then you never look at the map, >> right? You just I think it's this way, right? Bad idea. >> Pretty over there.

Let's go over there and let's go over there. Squirrel, let's go over there. Yeah. >> But when you track the transactions in real in real time, you say, "Okay, here we go.

I I've I've already spent half of my grocery budget and it's only, you know, a week into the month. I need to pull back." Right? You can start to make changes.

100% of the time they are adjusting 1% 2% 1% 2% based on the currents based on

the winds >> based on the weather uh based on speed

whatever but they're all you're you're 100% of the time and and if you actually

>> you can't see it because it's imperceptible because it's one and 2% but they're constant feedback and constant adjusting to the plum line >> to the actual target. >> Yes. And that's what the daily check-ins do. And it forces you to do this stuff.

And it forces you to look at stuff like, um, that car is brain damage.

>> Yeah, >> we can talk about a lot of different ways, but the largest thing that Americans buy in the typical American budget that is stupid is cars.

>> Yes. >> And it's like stupid on steroids. the level of money we spend and and go and get a car that's completely out of control and and and well just sign me up

for 21% because while I'm out of control, I'm just going to be all the way out of control. >> Yeah. >> And um but we do it and guys are worse than gals.

>> You think so? >> Men will impulse a freaking pickup for

80,000 bucks. He said a marriage thing and he's driving the pickup.

>> Yeah. >> And he blamed it on the marriage. that.

Come on, Leonard. >> You know, car >> I'm gonna blame it on Leonard. Okay, so that it when Dave buys a pickup, it's Dave's fault. Hello. Because guys, we get into cars. Now, some guys are more into cars than others, but I'm redneck.

I like the loud mufflers and all that stuff. I like I love a good muscle car, a good a good sports car. I love all that. Now, my wife thinks a car is just a really large purse, >> but um she's not as into the car other than she wants it to start when she sits down in it.

But other than that, you know, she's like, "Oh, this seems to be a nice car." Yeah, you have no idea how nice this car is. You know, you should really enjoy it. No, it's just it's a place to put the things I just bought at Target. >> Wow.

>> You know, >> car payments have caught up to student loans, Dave.

>> That's painful.

I didn't think much could get could get as stupid as student loans, but there you go. >> I just I I just had a whole another rant. >> Took your breath away. >> And I'm not going to have time.

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>> Timmy is in Salt Lake. Hi Timmy. How are

you?

>> Hi. How are you doing?

Whoa. Try again. You absolutely broke up. Your phone's not working.

>> I'm sorry. Can you hear me better now?

>> Yes, sir. Try again.

>> Yes, sir. I was just saying it's a pleasure to speak to you. I'm doing great. How are you guys doing today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Thank you, sir. Um, so first I just want

to say I'm really grateful for what you guys do and I'm calling for your advice.

I'm a husband, father, and I just need some guidance in my situation here. Um,

so I've been laid off for two months.

I just accepted a job offer. Um, but it

is a major pay cut and we still have

$24,000 left in baby step two. My

question today is, should I sell our vehicles and just get a second job to attack this debt or focus on replacing my old income first?

>> Both.

Yeah, you need to take take any job until you get the job. >> You did. So, what were you making?

>> So, I was making $112,000

>> doing what? >> Uh um I was a manager at an insurance

company.

>> Okay. And the insurance company, it

wasn't doing well and laid people off and you were one of them.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah. And I got some severance pay. We had a little bit of savings. We were just tackling debt. Um like knocking out credit cards. We were on this final one here and then boom, I got laid off. >> I I finally received a job offer. I've been applying like crazy, interviewing a ton. And I got an offer for about $27 an

hour.

Um which is basically like half of what I was making. >> Yeah.

Doing what?

Um, it's still an insurance, just a different type of insurance. Um, kind of starting out for like level one basically, but it'll be under the small business side of things.

>> Okay. I would take that for the time being because you need something, >> but but I'm not settling for that.

That's for that's for today to get you off the street. >> Mhm. >> Okay. What do you owe? What kind of debt are you carrying in baby step two?

It's just a personal loan. Um, our payment is about $600 a month. Now, I

have three vehicles that I'm considering

selling and just like getting a second job just to knock it off. Um, >> well, tell us about the cars, the three of them. What are they each worth?

>> So, to our dad's fun car, um, I've got a

Corvette. Uh, it's a 1986 Corvette

pristine condition and then a Pontiac

Fiero. Um, I could probably get

like 12 grand for both. And then we have

a second family car that's probably worth $67,000.

>> Mhm. >> Um, >> so so you you own a total of three cars

including the Vet and the Fiero.

Yeah, we have Well, we have three cars and then we have um like like a family car that we would just use four cars. Be down to one car. >> Four cars. >> Yes, sir. >> Oh, >> yes. >> Okay. So, if you sold the vet and the Fiero, that would pay off the family loan or the personal loan. >> Pay off half of it.

>> Yeah. Pay off about half of it. I think I could probably get down the personal loan from 24 to about 10.

>> Oh, they're not worth 12 each.

>> 12 together. No, no. Yeah, I've been

like going to dealers, CarMax, Kelly Boo

trying to like sell it online.

>> Yeah, that's usually wholesale and those are cheap enough cars, you probably could attract somebody in private sale and get a little bit more.

>> They're only selling for six or eight grand a piece. So, I mean, the Corvettes, you're going to attract somebody that's just interested in that co cool old car, you know. Um, same thing with the Fiero, I guess, sort of.

I But, you know, um, >> are you the only one? Are you the only one working?

>> Yes, ma'am. Um, I am the primary bread winner. My wife, um, she takes care of our kids. She does have a small side hustle. She does like, uh, flower arrangements. And >> how many children do you have, sir?

>> I have two, sir.

>> 5-year-old and one-year-old. >> Okay.

>> All right. All right. Well, yeah, she's probably going to have to do more than arrange flowers, and she can do that from home while they're in uh daycare taking a nap or whatever it is that she works her schedule around uh to where she can make a lot more than the few hundred a month doing flowers. She's not making anything doing that. That's a hobby. Um and then you're going to pick up an extra job and you're going to sell at least those two cars for sure. Um but

this is not a debt problem. This is an income problem. This is a career crisis

where you go from 112 to 50 grand.

That's your problem. >> Y >> the the other things are little things we can do to kind of shore up while the waves are crashing in. But the big deal is for you to get back to 100k and uh

and where are you going to do that and how are you going to do that? And it's not just applying for jobs. It's um

getting your foot in the door on a job

and using the skills that you used to run the insurance company before. Um you know, you could be a project manager with those kinds of skills because you have administrative skills and um people skills. You've you know, you're a lot of different things you're doing when you're a general manager in an agency like that. So, um, you need to start looking at that that way and re reset this in your mind so that you don't look up four years from now and still be making 50 or 55.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. You can't you can't consider the 112 a fluke.

>> Yeah. Once you have driven at 112 miles an hour, it feels weird to drive at 50.

Your body is now real is has now reset at 112. Your mind is reset. your spirit

is reset at 112. And so you're you're going to you should if you keep a positive attitude and keep looking for opportunity and how can I do this? Who do I know that works over at that place where I want to be doing that thing?

>> What is it I always wanted to be and I accidentally got in the insurance business? Um what was it I wanted to be before that that pays 200? Um and just reset your whole way of looking at things and continue this career uh to

where this is just a temporary setback, not a permanent path. Yeah. And we can give you find the work you're wired to do that'll help you convert those skills into into other career paths uh along

the way. >> Stephanie is in Canada. Hi Stephanie.

How are you?

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I are having a little bit of a disagreement on when the right time to upgrade my car.

>> Cool. How long y'all been married? >> Having over 13 years. How old are you?

>> And I've been driving I am 40.

>> What are you driving? >> About 15 years old. Uh 15y old Honda

Civic. >> Okay. It's a piece of crap. All right.

Are y'all broke?

>> Not at all. We make about 250 combined.

>> You have money? >> Um I can pay cash, but >> we can pay cash. We make decisions on our cars. >> How much are you thinking of spending on the new car?

>> This is a bit of disagreement. Uh the car this is Canadian dollars so the the numbers are a bit bigger. Uh the it's a secondhand SUV. It's uh not a Honda

basic but it's slightly above and it

with taxes it is about 50 >> 50. >> Okay. And what does he drive?

>> Like 50. >> Mhm. >> What does he drive? >> He he drives he drives a Hyundai.

Another piece of >> Oh, his is his is old too.

>> Okay. So, this guy hates spending money on >> He got it. No, he got it last year. It's uh It's not old. It's not new new. It's the >> What's it worth? >> What What do you pay for it? >> It It We paid about 47 for it.

>> Okay. You have debt?

>> Zero debt except for >> Okay. So, we can buy his car for 47, but

we can't buy yours for 50. I'm confused.

>> Well, it's it's not that we can't. It's more >> No, I mean, I'm talking I'm looking at him. He says, "No, you can't buy a $50,000 car." I just did, but we won't want buy one for you.

>> 50, but he wants me to wait another 2 3

years and it's already no AC in my car.

Uh, no backup camera. >> Well, just tell him to take your car and you drive his. >> Yeah, there you go.

>> Uh, my car is a manual. He doesn't know how. I Well, that then he's gonna have to learn because he thinks it's an awesome car. And I guess that's what Besides that, we have a law. It's federal law in America. Wife gets the good car.

>> Y'all need to you all need to pick that up in Canada. I'm just saying. I think that's a good rule.

>> So, no, this is this is weird, honestly.

the fact that if you have the cash and you're just wanting to spend what he just spent on a car, but you're not Yeah, you lose the argument. My man, my man

Stephanie, she's she's right. You done lost. We're throwing a penalty flag on this one.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Keith is in Omaha. Hi Keith. How are you?

Oh, thank you. I'm fine.

>> What's up? >> How are you? >> Good. How can I help? >> Okay. Yes. I'm uh in a situation where

my sister is running without any

financial conscience at all. She's running up her credit cards and my mom

is willing to bail her out and it's at

least into the hundred hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last five or 10 years. And so that's really eating away at what should be coming to my

inheritance, my kids inheritance. And if there's anything I can do, I would let them know.

>> Okay. >> So your your your mom is wealthy

>> there. Yeah. There's money coming in. Um there's uh yeah, there's a real real

significant uh amount of wealth in the family. Yes. >> So what does your mom How much does she have?

a million, 20 million.

>> It probably could be. I don't I don't know exactly, but >> No, I mean, you have an idea. Give me Give me a guess.

>> Oh, it's it's um probably

a million. Um could be two million. I don't know. >> Okay. >> One to two million, >> but it's not 100 million. All right.

>> Okay. >> And the problem is your sister's

>> Yeah. It's just you and your sister are the only two siblings.

>> That's right. Yeah. There's still money in the money coming into the estate, too. >> And how old are you?

>> I'm uh I'm approaching 59.

>> Okay. And what do you make a year, sir?

>> Okay. I'm uh have a long career as a

software developer. We're in a new career now. We're managing apartments and our um we're in a basically low income uh low expense mode here. and um

basically starting to get up in about the 35,000 a year range.

>> Mhm. So, is is there a plan for that to be a good income later?

>> It's it's building. Uh we acquired a new property. Um we are trying to turn the corner and start getting some savings from it. Uh we've got, you know, my retirement funds available especially as I get to 59 and a half to help us.

>> Yeah. And how much do you have saved in your retirement?

>> Uh, it's in the neighborhood of 500,000.

>> Okay, that's good. Good job on that. So, the apartments, did you buy them?

>> Yes, we own them free and clear. Haven't taken any loans. Um, >> and you and you what are they worth?

Um it's uh three different properties um

together could be

probably about $800,000 something like that. >> And you only make $35,000 on an $800,000

investment. That sucks.

>> Uh well, one of them is the one we live in. So we're we're you know, I can't I can't separate it exactly out because we have one one apartment that we do in our in our building, but >> And what does that work? for others. We if you took your home out of it, you still don't have a good rate of return. What's why what's wrong with the rent roll on this?

>> Hey, the the the new the second propert

so so we take mine mine out >> then we've just got the two properties and then one is still just finishing. So we haven't really turned it around to start the income on it yet. >> Oh, it's being renovated. Yeah, >> it's it's just almost finished being renovated. We got one. >> So when it's renovated, what will your income be?

Well, that's uh what I'm hoping is going to turn the corner into to more toward 40 45,000 something like >> So, you're going to be making a whole 45,000 on all of these apartments. That still sucks, man.

>> Your your rental rates are horrible for the money you've put into these things.

>> So, my reason for asking all of this, Keith, is very simple.

>> Um >> yeah, >> your mother has some money.

It's her money.

>> She's allowed to do with her money whatever she wants to, even if it's stupid.

>> Yeah. >> And even if it's harmful to your sister.

And I agree that what she's doing is harmful to your sister. But the basis for you having an argument here is not that you are entitled to this money. I would prefer you, sir, at 59 years old to go have a life and not be worried about your mama's income or your mother's inheritance to make your life good. I want you to go make your life good. And then we can look at this through eyes of strength >> and say, "How can I lovingly help my

sister get her act together and my mom quit being a classic serial enabler,

but instead you're worried about you getting some money cuz you don't have any money other than you've done a good job saving for retirement, but your income sucks. Especially if you've got

$800,000 in paid for real estate and

you're making a whole 45,000 bucks on it. This is horrendous. I mean, I love real estate. I own a bunch of real estate. I can't imagine how mad I would be at myself if I bought into something that paid no more than that as a rate of return. That's nothing

horrible. So, um, you know, we've got

some work to do to get our rates of return up on these rents and not $45,000

as your new career after you've been a software engineer and we're going to go into retirement broke and wait on mom to die. This is not a good plan.

>> Not a good plan.

So, you know, I I want you to

approach this subject of dysfunction in your family, not from your rights because you don't have any.

You're not entitled. Your mother could leave it all to your sister. She's allowed to do that. Would I agree with that? No. Do I agree with her paying bailing her out on credit cards and continuing her overspending? No, I don't. But mainly because it's harmful to your sister and your mother, not because you are entitled to some of the money.

You, sir, need to go have a life and then not worry about it. And that puts you in a different place. >> I agree. >> Yeah. >> It's not a good look. >> So, moms and dads, um Rachel and I wrote about this in

Smart Money, Smart Kids many years ago, and I was just talking about it with a content team this morning. I think I'm going to do a talk out of it. I haven't done it in a while. I'm doing it with a bunch of wealthy people and they always ask me, "How do I become wealthy and not ruin my kids?" And I always tell them, "Well, you can't." Uh, you're the wealth

didn't ruin your kids. They were already ruined. The wealth exposed it that you sucked as a parent. That's what it was.

And so, you know, the but the wealth money doesn't ruin people. It exposes the fact that people suck. >> It makes you more of what you already are. >> It makes you more of what you are. So the way you break that is from the time they're they can talk and walk you we

start with gratitude.

>> Yes.

>> Gratitude. Thank you.

Please.

In the south we called it manners.

>> I know that's right. Yes.

>> Thank you, Mom, for dinner. For standing

over that hot stove.

Mom, I'm going to help with the dishes.

>> Yes. Because if I don't, dad's going to hurt me.

Because you're going to learn gratitude.

You're going to be count your blessings, right? >> You're going to say, "Thank you, Lord, for bringing me this food." Thank you.

>> The world doesn't revolve around you.

>> Thank you. And that leads to the next one, which is humility.

>> But you can seldom be humble without first being grateful. >> I agree. Yes, Dave. And then if you're humble and you realize it's not all about you, the axis of the world doesn't run through the top of your head after all. Then the natural thing that happens is contentment.

>> This is where contentment comes from. Contentment doesn't just evolve as lightning in a bottle. It's a series of events that comes through gratitude and humility that says, "I'm not entitled."

>> No. >> It's the antidote to entitlement is gratitude, humility, and contentment.

And so, you know, I can remember one of my kids, we finally we had driving this old piece of crap car and we were broke and finally scraped a little bit of money. Things were starting to get a little better at the Ramsies and we got the car and you know at our house we always would and especially when I was growing up but even when our kids would do it too. You get a new car, everybody gets in the car, it's not a new car, but it's a new to us car. Just a slight upgrade.

>> My favorite story.

>> And I said, "We aren't doing anything.

>> You are broke.

>> I am doing pretty good. You got nothing.

>> I know that's >> You are a poor child that lives with me.

That's what you are.

We aren't doing anything. You got a mouse in your pocket. We We hadn't done anything. Y All you do is consume. >> I know. That's right. >> You are not a producer at this stage.

>> Freeloaders.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Marie is with us. Hey Marie, welcome to

the Ramsay Show. What's up?

>> Hi, nice to meet you all.

>> You, too. How can we help?

>> So, we desperately need to buy a new house and we are trying to become as

most debtree as we can. I don't think we're going to be able to do it all by the time we need this house. But our biggest um loan um is our solar panels.

Um, it's 40,500 and that we'll pay it off by the year 2047. Might as well be dead by that point. >> What in the world? >> So long. It is so bad. But the reason we did it was because we were homeless for

2 years before that. And our budget was so tight. We needed we couldn't have our bills fluctuating every month. And then sometimes it would go to 400. Sometimes it would go down to 80. And we never knew what we were going to get. >> Stop place. Mhm. >> Please tell me you know how stupid this is now >> that you traded $47,000 for a $100 fluctuation in your utility bill.

>> Yeah, it was like a 300. Yeah, it was better. >> But still, either way, there's no possible way any of this math accomplished what you wanted to accomplish. You completely surrendered major long-term debt >> for a tiny little movement in your monthly budget. >> And don't blame it on you being homeless. Tell us why you desperately

need, which is a strong language, to to move right now, why you need a new house.

>> We have a two-bedroom, one bath, 900 ft

house. We have four kids and one on the way that's coming in December. We have our three oldest kids sharing a room and the baby's sleeping with us in our room.

Um, but my boys, my my oldest are boys

and they're getting to the age where they need to be. >> How long have you been in this house?

>> Four years.

>> How old were they when you moved in this house?

>> Well, my oldest is 11 now, so I >> So you you already were the old woman in the shoe when you moved into the house.

>> Yeah. >> You barely fit in there when you bought it. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> You don't even know what that is. You got to look that up after you get off the air. Okay. Um >> the uh uh >> better than living in the street. So >> yeah, you remember being in the street, but you also bought a house that wouldn't handle your family.

>> And now you're now you're realizing that. And it certainly wasn't a crisis when you bought it.

>> And things have not changed except by one baby. >> Okay. Now, now what is this house worth?

This house has about 35 to 40,000 in

equity right now. >> Not counting the solar panels.

>> Oh, you going to take that out? Mhm.

>> Then so nothing. >> So it doesn't have any equity when you pay off the solar panels cuz they're attached to the house.

>> Mhm. >> And what's the house worth?

>> Uh about 235. We're we're at 186 right

now and um after all the payments we've

made. So, >> okay. Now, my screen says my screen says, "Should we get our solar panel loan cancelled?" >> Why would you be able to get your can loan cancelled?

>> Well, you know how Facebook is. As soon as you start going in and searching something, it sends a bunch of ads your way and you never know what's a scam.

>> Everything on Facebook is a scam.

>> All of it. This is not a place to get solid information.

>> Yes. That's why I was calling because it's they sell a really nice story. So,

my I keep seeing this the same name as a loan, which I'm sure it's done on purpose, um, of the people who sold us the solar panels saying that because they were making shady deals and things like that that people are getting their

loans forgiven. Is it a lawsuit?

>> Was there Yeah, >> I don't There have been some lawsuits, but I It feels a little shady. Like >> I need to do some independent You need to do some independent research on that.

Don't go by Facebook if you want to know. Just research if there's a lawsuit pending against that company. >> Is there a class action lawsuit or has the Federal Trade Commission gotten a ruling? There you go. >> Go to the FTC.gov. Go to ftc.gov.

Federal tradecomission.gov. Have you done that?

No, I was going to ask what are some good places to search because I go on Google and I get all these companies that pop up with the same stuff. So, I don't want to go in the wrong direction and then go into debt because of a lawyer for a fee or whatever and that was unnecessary. >> What's your household income?

>> 84,000.

>> Okay.

>> We have our three our three kids that are older have special needs, so we homeschool. I have several chronic illnesses as well. >> What's the nature of the special needs for the three kids?

>> Um, well, my oldest has severe anaphilaxis to a lot. Um, and they have

all three of them have ADHD and anxiety and two of them have autism.

>> Okay.

>> And I have Lyme disease and rheumatoid arthritis. >> Oh my goodness.

Boy, oh boy. Okay. There's a lot going on. What are you guys paying? What do you pay for the mortgage every month?

What do you pay?

>> $1,400. And in um November that will go

up by $300. The windows on our house

were cracking um and it wasn't safe. We

were single pane from 1984. We have to

get new windows for the house.

>> So to answer let's answer your question at hand. You don't have the money today to move up in house. You you just simply don't. Absolutely not. >> And we don't want to add insult to injury. The the best thing I could think of is if you're trying to find another

place that you could rent for a while that's got an extra bedroom that's in the same range, the $1,700

range >> if you got your house sold. >> Uh-huh. If you sell this house and that can buy you some time to save up a down payment. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, Maria, I'm going to be

honest with you and love you. Are you ready for me to do that?

>> Absolutely. >> You sure? Brace yourself. Put your seatelt on. Okay.

It's already ugly here. It's all good.

>> Okay. All right. You guys make a lot of decisions that are large decisions that are very

drambbased.

Suddenly the 1984 windows were

dangerous.

No, they weren't.

A window salesman called.

>> Suddenly we couldn't afford. We were homeless. And so we bought a house that doesn't fit our family instead of going and renting something that fit our family. And so we went from drama to drama to drama. Oh, and we buy $47,000

worth of solar panels to stabilize a

$300, $200 utility bill with another

bill that is equal almost that.

So all this stuff is you go to drama and every time I do drama and you too Marie

every time you've done drama you've made bad decisions anytime I get feeling desperate right

after I get desperate I get stupid

and most people do so if you feel this

rising up anxiety inside of you that this house is a crisis this utility bill is a crisis this homelessness is a crisis and you and you build it to where you justify doing something really dumb to get away from the crisis. You're making things worse every time you do that.

You've made three large bad decisions in

this phone call and they all were based on that pattern.

So, you've got to take a step back and take a breath and you've got a lot on your plate. I mean, you got all kinds of special needs in the house. You're doing it all in 900 square feet. you were doing it in a homeless situation before.

Those are all real stressors. But when you're in the cooker like that, you got to be real careful to move carefully and

slowly on the next step. Otherwise, you're going to step on a rock and fall in the creek. And that's that's what I do. I get I get desperate. I get a little little little little jinky. And

all of a sudden, I get stupid. And you've done three really large bad ideas. You should not have bought that house to stop being homeless. You should have gone and rented something that fit your family. >> You shouldn't have bought windows because they suddenly were a problem from 1984. Crap. Those windows were in that house when you bought them.

>> And then you shouldn't have bought solar. So, I mean, I'm picking on you. I told you to put your seat belt on, but I'm loving you well. Hear me because I can see this pattern real clearly.

And if you don't break it, it's never going to go away. >> Yeah. >> And so, I want you to stop. So, yes, I want you to investigate and see if you can get rid of the solar loan.

It's possible. I'll give you a 10% probability that this particular company has been set up by the FTC and the loans are being forgiven. You can check it out.

I would pay a lawyer 500 bucks to research it for me and check it out against 47,000. That's a good investment. and find out if there's a uh a uh a class action suit or something out there or a Federal Trade Commission ruling out there to get rid of this.

That'll help you get this house sold.

And then gently and carefully and calmly go rent something.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Andy is

with us in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Andy. How are you? >> I'm well, Dave. >> Good. How can we help?

Well, uh, before I ask my question, I just want to say first of all, thank you so much to you and your team at Ramsey

Solutions for helping my family and I to

be able to get out of debt and be successful financially and then to be a to equip your equipping of us to be able

to help other people through doing FPU at our church and doing personal financial counseling. >> Wow. >> And it's you guys have just been such a blessing to us. >> Thank you. Sounds like you guys are a blessing. We appreciate you partnering with us. Thanks. >> Well, it's it's been great. So, here's my question. Um, and this is it's kind

of a summary of experience that I that we've had counseling people, but it also includes our own experience. And I'm using our numbers because it's what I have available. >> Okay? >> So, I'm not I'm not trying to convince you to change your program. Uh but I am

kind of asking for help for those of us who are still it feels like we're still in the trenches even after following your programming being successful with it. So my wife and I started the baby steps in 2011. Uh it took us seven years

to finish baby step >> 2.

>> Uh we taught FPU several times during this period and uh eventually we paid off our home in 2023 and in 2025 we paid cash for a new roof.

In 2026, we pay cash for a new to us

car. We believe in the baby steps and we

stick to the plan. But our problem is it

sometimes it just feels like there isn't enough. So here's the numbers. 17% of my

income goes to taxes. 25% is just for

groceries. We give 20%. Our utilities

are 17%.

Transportation is about 12%.

>> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What do what do you make? What's your household income? >> Uh about 67, not including overtime.

>> Okay.

>> So, if you total all those numbers up, that leaves 9% for retirement, insurance, and lifestyle. And we're not looking to live an extravagant lifestyle.

But I guess our question is when do we when do we get to take a real vacation?

>> Well, whenever you want. I mean, you have to budget that in. I don't know how you're spending 25%

of $67,000 on food.

>> Well, grocery costs went up 38% in the last >> I know what they did. I'm sitting here.

Um I'm talking about $67,000

times 25%.

I mean, you don't you have children? You have eight children?

>> Nope. Both of my children are married and out of the house. But >> two people are spending two people are spending $20,000 on food,

>> $15,000 on food.

>> Groceries are expensive. Yeah, that's the number that we have. And and we're not living extravagantly now. We we we stick to we try we try to stick to a carnivore diet, but that's not exclusive. >> Okay. So, well, back to your original question then. Just I I just got sidetracked on that number. It was throwing me. All right. Anyway, the um

well, you you have a below average household income.

Household income in America is 78 and

yours is slightly below average and you

have zero debt, but all of your bills don't go away when you have zero debt.

>> So, um I I think the only I I don't think you're going to live a millionaire lifestyle on that income. Um,

but uh your income taxes

shouldn't be 17% either.

They shouldn't be that high. So, I'm

you're a detail guy, so I'm I'm I'm struggling with to be the guy to question all of your numbers, but I'm questioning some of them already. Um,

so I I don't know the answer to your question philosophically except to back up and say if I had debt, I'd be screwed

in this scenario. If you had a house payment and two car payments, I don't know how you'd make it in this scenario where you've got where you've locked this down so tight that you only have 9%

left to save for retirement and you don't have a stinking payment in the world, including a house payment. And somehow from 2011

to 2023, wasn't it like 12 years? You found

enough margin in your budget to become completely debtree and pay off your house.

And now there's no margin.

That's weird. >> Yeah, that is weird. I I mean, I think my guess is there probably is margin.

It's just not uh what you thought it was

going to feel like. And there's something to that. Uh you made the point about the income, which is true. And there's something to that.

If we talk to a teacher who makes a lower income because they love teaching and they love that, then we say, well, you're going to have a Camry lifestyle.

That's just part of it. You're going to drive a used Camry. You're not going to have a ton of margin because that's the income. That's the life that your income is affording you. And I think that there is just part of that that the cost of living is high and because of that your income doesn't go as far. It doesn't mean you're not free or >> Did he say 20% on giving?

>> He said 20% on giving, 17% on taxes.

Neither one of those makes sense. >> Yeah. Uh 20% giving is a choice. He could be >> I would be doing my tithe at 10% until I got my retirement funded. >> I I agree. I agree with that.

>> Until I got my retirement funded. So you're all Okay. And biblically speaking, the tithe is off the top before anything. Um, offerings are from

surplus.

>> And, uh, regardless of whether some preacher tells you he wants the widow's might to build his building, but uh, I can argue about that teaching all day long. But the, um, the the offerings

come from surplus all through scripture. And the tithe is baseline off the top before you do anything. So, and that's how Sharon and I have given our whole lives. And so, yeah, I'm going to >> I'm going to check in on a bunch of these percentages if I'm you.

>> Yeah, it's I got three of them written down right there. 17% income tax, 25% grocery, and

20% on giving that I question all three of them. So, anyway, check in on all that and dial it in and and then redistribute and let's make sure we're getting 15% of our income into retirement because you said you only had 9% left over to do that with and to upgrade a car and so on.

>> So, >> now there is something to be said. He said he put a new roof on. He put he did new cars, things like that. >> Where did that money come from? >> You saved it up and you did it >> with from what? There's not enough margin here. He explained a budget that was gone with down to 9%. And 9% won't do those

things if you did nothing, you know? I mean, so it it it didn't get him out of debt. It didn't get his house paid off. So that's the other thing. So, something's changed

>> and it's gotten uh some of these percentages have fattened up a little.

>> Yeah. >> Since everything got paid off and since we did these other things. So, uh but you're always going to have stuff come up and you're never going People get

confused. I wrote about this in um Baby Steps Millionaires too. Um we get emotionally confused because when the the word millionaire kind of came out was the 1920s, >> 1910 20 right in there. And in those days, a million was a lot like a billion today. >> Yeah. >> And so when you're a millionaire, you drive a two-year-old Toyota. You don't

have three houses. No.

>> And you don't have a private jet. Those are all billionaire things. And a billion is a thousand million. So it's

not going to feel like you're rich.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like you're like unlimited funds for something. So um a your income's low. B,

lower lowish. Uh B, you did this before

somehow did made these other things accomplished. C look at your percentages again cuz some of them are a little wonky.

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Continuing that discussion for just a second,

there is something I have observed as you go through the baby steps and as you go through your wealthb buildinging process that um gradually shifts and it's so gradual

it's almost imperceptible.

And that is um

that as you build wealth and as you get

more and more margin in your budget because you don't have any payments >> and because you start to have a pile of money in your retirement 401k, you've

got you've got a good strong emergency fund. The further down that you move

and and it makes sense when I say it out loud, but you don't realize it's happening. Uh the further down that you move, the bigger the event has to be

before it financially the dollar amount has to be larger to emotionally strain

you. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So like if the if I had a flat tire when

I was broke, my life looked like a country song. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong, you know. And so a flat tire was the national debt. It was

drama, drama, drama, drama, drama because it was yet one more thing. And I was so broke I couldn't pay attention.

Um now I would have to total a car.

>> Yeah. To >> to have the same with no insurance to have the same feeling, >> you know, or or bigger, you know, even.

Um, but and it's not just because I'm

older or I get a but your perception is different the more wealth you have built and the fewer the more margin you have in your monthly budget and and so what

used to be a crisis is no longer a crisis. You will experience that but it

is so subtle and incremental that you don't feel like you've arrived. M people have

a perception and this is one of the things he was asking about that I didn't properly address this why I wanted to continue the conversation into his defense um was that when you people have

the perception that when you hit baby step seven you're going to feel like you hit the lottery >> but your income woohoo moment >> there's not a woohoo moment there's a

>> I it takes a lot bigger problem now to be a problem >> moment and it snuck up on you so you didn't even realize it so you don't feel like you got there. >> Mhm. >> You don't you don't have this um uh um top of the mountain, put the

flag in or something uh celebration

moment when you get to Baby Step 7. It's kind of a yawn. >> Yeah, I could see that.

>> And so, um I I you know, I do want you

to go there because it's the you know, it's it's a better yawn than the nightmares you're living in before you get there. So, you know, let's let's have a yawn for sure, >> but you're not going to have the

>> uh suddenly I have unlimited funds feeling. >> I think because you don't >> I think that's the difference. You be you become a baby steps millionaire.

Maybe you have a million bucks in the bank between all your assets in your home, but you don't earn a million dollar a year. You still earn 60 or 70 or $80,000 a year. The only difference is instead of the $800 a month going to the debt, now it stays in your pocket.

And most people say, "Okay, we're going to bump up giving a little bit. Maybe now you increase the grocery budget a little bit." But it's not these.

>> But $800 is not two weeks on Santorini

and me and Mkos in the Greek >> island. And that's my point. You're not >> That's $800.

>> Yeah. You know, >> it's it's the ability to have freedom in the the daytoday the small things in life that you used to you used to go to the grocery store and the the budget strings had to be ultra tight. Now it's okay to loosen it up a little bit. You used to you see what I'm saying? It's these little things up day. Yes.

>> And pay cash. We can put a roof on and pay cash. And by the way, >> and those are the celebrations, but they feel so mundane that you don't feel like

the celebration is there that you should have felt it should feel better than this when you get his point was it should feel better than this, >> but you're still it doesn't >> because you still have to have delayed gratification. I think that's >> and you still have limited dollars.

You're still not in Congress. >> That's right. Y >> you know, it's still that's it. You still have to say no and it still takes time to save. Yeah. what you're buying and everything else. Julia is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Julia. How are you?

>> Good. How about you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, um I started listening to the Ramsey show probably about six, seven months ago. Um I recently got married and I had a virtual job that was

in my hometown and it was great. I had

full-time hours. I moved here about 2 hours north of where I'm from in St.

here and um my work downgraded my hours.

It's a smaller startup company and it was a bad business venture on their part and long story short I only getting 10

hours per week which really sucks comparison to like 25 or even 30 at this

point. So um I had to bootstrap up and I say what what can I do in my community to make myself make money and I started a small cleaning business. >> Good. So, um, now I'm cleaning up to four or five different houses, and they're big square footage houses. So, I'm getting about >> anywhere from 250, that's the, you know, smallest range, all the way up to like maybe $1,000 per week, uh, when it comes to just cleaning houses on the side. And >> you are a grind and hustle girl. Way to

go.

>> Thank you. Thank you. Um, yeah, long story short, that has become my main source of revenue at this point. So making more than you ever made in your life is >> Yeah. Are you are you making more from the houses than you made full-time doing the other gig? >> Yeah.

>> I mean, whenever I was full-time, I got smaller. It was a smaller doctor's office. Like it was a virtual >> That wasn't what she asked, honey.

>> You're making more money now than you used to make at a J O, >> right? >> That's what I said. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

>> Good. Good. Now, >> all right. So, what's the problem?

If anything, when should I decide to

make this an LLC? Because >> LLC, no, you don't need an LLC.

>> Do you have a separate checking account that you run your business on?

>> Correct. >> You do. You have a DBA account doing business as?

>> Yes. >> As a sole proprietor. And you run all of your income from the business into that account and only expenses out of the account. And then when you take money home from that account, you set money aside for your quarterly estimates.

1/4th of what you take out of the business to take home, you set aside for taxes. Okay.

>> Yes, definitely. >> Yeah. When you do all of that, you do not The LLC does not save you a dime on

taxes.

The sole proprietorship has exactly the same write offs an LLC does.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. The only thing you have only thing you need an LLC for >> the only thing you need an LLC for >> is risk.

If you are if you have if you're a multi-millionaire and you start a business and you think somebody might sue you because of the business and try to get your multi-million dollars, then you would start an LLC. If you're in a business that is high risk where you

could get sued inside the business and you're not, you would start an LLC. or

if your company starts making over a million dollars a year, you would do it for risk. But the LLC is only for risk.

Meaning that if you're doing business as an LLC, everything's in the LLC name.

It's Julia's House Cleaning LLC, right?

And that's the name of it. And everything everything's built to that.

All the workers are working from that.

If somebody falls while they're working on the job and they want to sue the company, they have to sue the LLC. and all they can get is the LLC's assets.

They couldn't take your home. They couldn't take your cars. They couldn't take other stuff because your LLC is the one doing business as a standalone entity. That is what it's for. It's for risk management.

>> Not save on taxes. >> If she started hiring on other house cleaners to clean as a part of her business. >> Yeah. We're we're five or six weeks into this.

>> I'm just saying. >> Yeah. I mean, she's been running this thing 6 months or a year. It starts making bank.

it starts getting really complicated. There's a whole bunch of players involved. you're in rich people's houses or you're in a high uh risk environment like some kind of sensitive office situation >> where the you know somebody misbehaving in that situation is a risk uh and you're sending employees into that not yourself then yeah you you know where you start perceiving risk >> is what an LLC but but there's all this crap on the internet that get an LLC you'll save on taxes >> and that that's what happens when you're so stupid you listen to Tik Tok But yeah.

Oh my gosh.

I know. I know. I know. Shut up. But anyway,

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is in Dallas. Hi, Donna. How are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so uh my husband and I are older.

I'm 71, he's 84. Um, during COVID, we

had our 401ks, our retirement accounts, and the stock market took a dive and we went down like $26,000 in a week, and we got nervous.

So, we took it out real quick.

>> And our thought was, I know, our thought was that we don't have time to recover.

>> If we lose everything, you've been out since >> tried it one more time. The same thing happened and we just couldn't do it again. We just couldn't do it. Um, >> it went up 25% three years in a row and

you missed that.

>> I know, but I keep thinking they can't stay like that. It's going to be gone.

>> Oh, God. But am I going to feel worse if I lose it or or go up? Going to be the

worst there. >> Donna, the problem is the first dive when you said you lost the 26,000.

>> It recovered in like 50 years.

>> The moment the moment you took it out, you just locked in that loss. You 100%

lost the 26,000. You do not need to be you do not need to be investing in the stock market.

>> Yeah, that was kind of like my thought.

So, we did try >> because you don't have the backbone >> to stand >> the volatility. >> Yeah, the stock market's not the problem. >> No, the the the history of the stock market, you you lost your butt.

>> You got out at exactly the wrong time.

Like the worst possible. You did it the worst possible way you could have done it. And so if you're going to do that again, you need to stay away. Meanwhile,

I made a 100% on my money

>> while you did that >> because I just rode the roller coaster up and down and enjoyed the ride. Got off, got on it again, and rode. Never never got off. I just stayed on, said, "Take me around again." >> Yeah, take me around again.

>> I think there's a bigger issue at hand.

How much did you have in the stock market?

>> Um, we had like about 190,000. I think

that's the issue. I think the the bigger problem is you're worried that you don't have enough to live on throughout the entirety of your retirement. And so that's what's causing you to be very like trigger happy with this and very like >> quick to move. >> Well, no, what's causing that is a lack of knowledge of the market and you you're not you're not familiar enough with the history of the market to be comfortable. So you think all bad news is the only news.

>> And so if you can't get past that, you're going to do this again and again. And I would recommend you don't do it again and again cuz you're taking a beating. >> Yeah. >> And at 71 and 84, you don't want to take a beating.

More than anything, you're taking a beating emotionally. Your 200 would be 400 if you'd have left it alone. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> That's what I'm saying. My sister-in-law, my sister-in-law back, I think it was in the 80s or something when the stock market went bad or the '9s. It was hers was the '9. And she lost almost everything.

Just >> No, she did not.

There's no time in the stock market's history it went to zero.

>> Well, it was such a small amount and I don't know. I mean, she's my only

emotionally lost everything, but she did not lose. That's like in in 2008. Okay.

The stock market dropped in half. It went from the Dow Jones went from 13,000 to 6,500 and people said I lost everything. No, you lost half.

>> And the only way you lost it is if you took it out >> if you took it out at the bottom perfectly. Meanwhile, >> and how long does it take to recover? I mean, >> one year.

>> Okay. >> And it's not 13,000 now where it started down to 6,500. It's now 36,000.

>> Mhm. >> And that's since 2008. Okay. And so in

the last year, the market has made 13%.

Since the first of the year, we started bombing Iran and the market went down and then back up. And it's currently from January to today down 1%.

1%.

That's not losing everything. That's losing $19.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So that that's but you've got to get your head around this both of you because if you're going to believe sister-in-law's mythology and you guys are going to sit and watch the news every night and freak out then you're going to do this again and again and again and I don't want that for you. I think you're better off making too little money and and not being awake all night.

>> Okay. Right now they have it in CDs. Um

>> put it in a high yield savings account.

you know, go to Fairwinds Credit Union, dump it in a high yield savings account, and let her ride, and you're going to make three or 4%. You're going to break even with inflation, but you're not going to lose anything. And you and you're going to sleep beautifully. But I got to make fun of you, okay? Because I love you. I know. >> Meanwhile, Meanwhile, my money is going to be doubling >> while you're making 3%.

>> Because it's going up. >> If I can convince myself to suck it up, >> you would have to You'd have to read enough. sit down with one of our smart investor pros and read enough and look at the market. So, here's the numbers.

97% of the five-year periods, if you leave it alone 5 years since the stock market began, have made money. That's all of them.

>> Okay? So if you had left it alone five years in any scenario that we're talking about, you would have made some money

even in a weird crashy weird thing like

COVID or Iran war or 2008. Okay, all of

those actually you can look at it. It's about the same time. It's COVID hit in March and so did Iran war >> and so Trump starts bombing Iran the market dives. All right. And so cuz it

always does that with geopolitical stuff. And so if you understand that every time it does that its returns very quickly, then you start getting the opposite mindset that like, oh, he bombed Iran. Great. I'm going to get to buy this on sale.

Okay, >> this is this the stock market's now on sale because I know it's going to go up INSTEAD OF OH GOD I'M GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING BECAUSE my sister-in-law told me a mythology told gave me a lesson in mythology and so um you know that's but

you if you're going to invest again so here's what I would do let me let me go back up if I'm 71 I'm 66 I'm 65 getting

ready to be 66 so uh we're close to the same age I would put this money in a high yield savings account and let it ride and sleep at night. Meanwhile, I'm going to challenge you intellectually to sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and start learning because knowledge of how

this these markets return, how they co go down, how often they come back, what the bounceback period is, and all that will cause you to ride out the waves.

>> Yeah, let me go over it because this is so cool to see. So, what I'm going to tell you is a major market crash that we all know and how long it took to recover the losses. So, you could go back to 1987. You were there for that. Black Monday. >> Black Monday. Yeah. All right. >> It dove 34%.

>> 34%. >> And it took 22 months to recover in one day. >> 22 months. That's less than two years to recover. 1990 Gulf War recession. It dove 20%. It took four months to get back. Just four months. Uh let's go to

the dot crash. She said 49%.

Half. It took less than seven years to completely recover. Half. That's one of the big That's crazy. Look at this one.

2008 the Great Recession. I remember that. 57% it dove. It took less than

four years to recover. 2018 federal rate

selloff. 20% crash. Less than four

months to recover. 2020 COVID crash. We remember that 34% dive. It took less than 5 months to recover. And then most recently the 2022 inflation bear market

that we all experienced 25% dip. It took less than 22 months to recover. You just

have to write it out. If you can if you can sit tight for two years, you get back >> that one's wrong because in um we had a

25% a 24 3% and 26% market three years

in a row. >> We did >> and that So that last one's wrong, but the others are correct. >> Others are correct. All right. >> There you go. I remember the others. So, yeah. Okay. Interesting. So, studying this stuff and going, how fast does it bounce back after the towers get bombed?

>> Right over the top of Wall Street.

>> Yep. >> 57 days.

>> Wow. >> That one came back.

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Might not be in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Zach in New Hampshire. He says, "My wife and I have $250,000 in various savings accounts. My wife wants to use the money as a down payment to buy a home. I think it would be a waste to use it that way.

I would rather keep investing the money and eventually live off of the interest in dividends. Our rent is affordable and has not increased since we moved in. We have one child and a combined income of about 200,000. We're debtree and our monthly expenses are very minimal. If you were in my position, what would you do? Well, I'd buy the house. I would

because number one, you're stabilizing one of the largest line items on most people's budget, which is their housing.

And your rent may have not have gone up yet, but it will eventually. So, I would do that. And I also just think there's a piece of mind with having a place that you can call home that's yours that is gaining equity. And I think uh Dave,

what I what I sense in this conversation and we've had this with many people who've called in is it's almost like people forget that purchasing a home is a form of investing. It's like I just want to invest my money in the stock market. I'm like well I love the idea of investing. Can you do both? Can you do 15% in the stock market and can you invest in real estate which is your primary >> home? I think they're both very good to do. >> Agreed. So, um, you the premise that the

person writing the email bases this on is that he's got cheap rent and it hadn't gone up, but everyone listening knows that's going to be false. >> It will change. >> So, that you can't expand, you can't extrapulate that out 40 years. Okay?

Again, I'm 65 years old. So, when I was 25, if I had been renting, can you imagine how much my rent would have gone up >> during that 40 years of my working lifetime? Absolutely. >> Um even if I had a good deal initially with the first landlord who didn't go up on me for 3 years or something, right?

But that's going to come to an end at some point. >> Um that guy's going to die and the next investor is going to go way up or whatever. It's going to you 100% of rent

goes up. >> Yeah. And while that's happening, by the way, the real estate market's going up.

>> Exactly. >> As well. And so during that time, you

know, again, we you've heard us say this before, we've done done the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, detailed, airtight research.

And what we have found is is that 89% of

America's millionaires started with nothing, did not inherit the money to

become a millionaire, and became millionaires. So then you have to ask the question, what did they do? If you want to be one, you do what they do. You study best practices and you emulate it.

Right. Right. >> So what did they do? Almost all of them like a 85 90 percentile looked like

this. >> I mean they they all kind of fit the same mold. They were boring.

>> Mhm. >> And what we found is they they worked and got their home paid off and it was 6 or $800,000 and it took them 10 or 12 years to get the home paid off. And then they've during that time they've been investing steadily in their 401ks and in their Roth IAS and they had another 800 or 900,000 or a million in that. And it took them 16 years to do that.

>> Mhm. >> So you got a you know $800,000 house and you got 1.2 million in your retirement

or less anywhere in there and you got a 1 to2 million net worth. So those are the two components of the first one to5 million of net

worth that we see people build and that's normative among them. They bought

a house and paid it off. They steadily invested in 401ks. That's what I mean by it's not sexy. It's boring.

It's just like buy a house and pay it off and put money in the 401k and go to work and come home and eat your meatloaf. I mean this is what you're doing, right? and you become a millionaire. It's not like you like like you like you somehow invented applesauce.

I mean, you didn't do anything that was that brilliant. You were just steady. And so that's why his idea is flawed >> because that house becomes one of the two components of wealth building to your point of investing that causes people to become wealthy. And during that time, 100% of the time, rent's going up.

>> Yes, it is. >> 100%.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> And so, I mean, the house that I sold

when I was 18 years old, my first house as a real estate agent, I got my real estate license when I was 18. I sold the house two weeks later. I sold it for on East Ridge Drive in Antioch, Tennessee for $42,500.

That house sells for $600,000 now.

Don't be a renter. >> Yeah, that's the moral of the story.

>> I mean, hello. If you were renting that house the entire time, >> rent is going, >> you would have been paying, let me think what the rent would have been. The rent would have been 150 bucks probably.

>> Mhm. >> In those days. Wow. >> Maybe 200.

>> We rented an apartment uh a couple years later, a one-bedroom apartment for $2 235. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. And so right after we got married. So and that was 1982. So

this would have been 78. So four years later. So yeah, probably been 150 200 bucks for the rent on that $42,500

brick ranch built in 1948. 1,000 square

ft with an unfinished basement.

>> Mhm. >> And um Yeah. And that house will go for 600k right now. >> Oh my goodness. and that rent, which means the rent would probably be

he'd probably be renting that for 2500 bucks. >> Oh my goodness. >> So, that's the problem with this theory.

And that's that's that's everywhere in America, right? That's not in Antioch, Tennessee. That's everywhere. That's all over America. And so, um, yeah, not

ashamed. I sold that guy that house, by the way. I think I think I did I think I did him good. I was 18-year-old idiot, but I still did him good.

you know, I didn't know what I was doing, but I thought I knew what I was doing, but it turned out I knew what I was doing. There we go. So, yeah.

If you can put down, and this guy has 250,000 bucks to put down, if you can put down 20%, you can avoid PMI, which

is private mortgage insurance, and that

is a good thing. if you can avoid that.

First-time home buyers often can't get a whole 20% down. I understand that.

>> In this market though, you you you're putting down more if you want the payment to be less than 25% of your takehome. So, you got to get there. >> Depends on the house. Yeah.

And where you're living and all that. But, yeah, you're exactly right. It's all numbers. It's all math.

Why? You know, one thing I find on this show a lot is people are always willing to sacrifice their personal residence.

They're always willing to put their personal mortgage and the piece of that on the line. And I find that to be interesting because the truth is there's more tied up in that than I think people realize in their day-to-day life. But all you have to do is be in a situation where you're up against the wall and you realize how much it matters to you.

Anybody who's had a diagnosis, anybody

who went through CO 19, anybody who's been laid off or lost a job, the number one thing that you start thinking about is your home >> and you want your home safe and you don't want to lose your home and you want to make sure you can make the payment. So don't forget that.

>> Don't forget that. >> There's something very primal.

>> Yes. >> About that. >> Yes. Yes. And a different kind of anxiety than I can't get the coffee that

I want today. >> Right. >> That's a different kind of anxiety.

>> So, when you're in >> I'm going to lose my home.

>> Yes. >> That's different than having the lights cut off. >> That's right. >> I've had both, but I don't want and I don't want either again. Uh and I don't recommend it as a method of learning, but um >> so protect it. Protect it before your backup is up against and I hope it never is, but protect it when you have the ability to and pay it off when you have the ability to. So, circling back on that guy just for a second, if he keeps

investing steadily, his investments will

not be enough to cover the difference in rent going up.

So, he's going to end up he's going to end up going backward. >> That's a good point. You're saying percentage wise, >> he's going to he's going to end up going backward in that scenario. Your investments won't do well enough um for you to stay ahead of that. And if they are, you're playing in stuff you shouldn't be playing in.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality is with me. We were talking about stock market returns earlier and during that break, we actually got to play with the actual app a little bit and look at it and I uh misqued some

stuff. So, I need to clean up my mess.

If some of you are still listening before you're bitching on the comments that Dave Ramsey is an idiot, because he was he messed up. So, um anyway, the um

the thing to remember about the S&P, um

it is it recovered in about 90 days from

the high. It was up up in February.

Trump bombed in Iran. It dove. It came back in I think it's 92 days. It recovered to where it was and it's well beyond that now. And I said the rate of return for the year was down 1%. I was

wrong. It's up 10% for the year. So if

you've been in the stock market, invested in S&P, which is the stock market from January 1 to today,

um you know, then you June 1, then you

have made 10% on your money.

Meanwhile, it went down and back up.

And so you rode a roller coaster down and you wrote it back up 10%. Now in

2024

20 yeah 2024 the stock market made 23%.

>> Yeah >> S&P did then 25 and the year and then 26

and then 17 and so those are the returns for the last several four or five years >> um under different administrations and all kinds of different situations and different volatility and gone up and gone down and back and forth. But you can go back and just pull up an S&P app and look at it online and you can see the thing going up and down and you say, "Okay, there's a dip. What was going on at that time and you go back and look at the news stories of the day." >> Um, and so you'll see it comes back in 57 days or whatever like that just like we just did on the about 90 days on that around more or 60 days.

that the moral of the story is you do not put

money in the stock market unless you're going to leave it alone at least three years and preferably five.

If you don't have that mindset, you're

going to panic every time you read a news story or see a news story on and Fox and CNN are going to tell you that Chicken Little, the sky is falling every day. It's what they do. It's fear porn.

And they're going to tell you every day that the world's coming to an end. The world's coming to an end. They always report when the market is down. They never report when it's up.

>> Ever. >> They never say record stock market returns. Now, a business channel like a Fox Business might or in the old days the old CNBC back in the day, not there anymore. But the uh if it was a pure business channel with stock market reports, they might say the market's up at a record level. And um and I think I

did say the the Dow was at 36. It's like at 50,000. So I'm not even close on that. So I screwed up two things in one of those other segments pretty dramatically. But the moral of the story still is no one gets hurt on a roller coaster except those that jump off in the middle of the ride. I do not take my

money out of the market based on any

singular event because I think the market's going down.

every time the market goes down.

Instead, I am tempted to scrape the nickels out of the corner of the couch and put more in >> because it's on sale.

>> When I was a kid, there was a store called Kmart.

It's gone now. And when you went in Kmart, they had these little things that on rollers with a blue light on top. And

they would roll this thing over to the

whatever aisle, the tool aisle or the socks aisle or the underwear aisle, and they turn the blue light on. And there would be a blue light special and you could get a bargain. And so the rednecks would flock to the blue lights, right?

Like a moth towards a flame. And so I remember my mama running down the aisle of Kmart to the blue light. That's what you should do when the stock market goes down. The blue light is on. It's on sale. Get a bargain. Run down the aisle,

you redneck. Get you some money. Okay, that that's what we did. And so um that

that's there's nothing wrong with that.

And but if you've got the mindset of it has always come back and the only game is how long it takes it >> then when it dives on one of these

>> anything >> news items >> or geopolitical events whether it's COVID or you know fires in Australia or whatever it is it causes you know the Russians launch a satellite uh somebody

invades Ukraine somebody doesn't invade Ukraine uh somebody's oil barrel goes up

whatever it is whoever you know whatever it is me whatever mess Trump is making this week ends up in the stock market, right? Or whatever victorious thing he does this week ends up in the stock market. And so, um, for a but for a

short period of time overall, you just make money. >> Yes. >> So, that's the moral of that story. I'll get off my soap box. All right, let's go to Jay in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Jay.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh, me and my wife just had a baby in January. Hey, what'd you ask?

>> A girl. >> Awesome. You're ruined.

>> Um, yeah, I know, right? Um, and so

doing the doing the current bills. Uh, we're trying to pay off debt, but she just had a school payment come up and that kind of threw everything off. And then daycare is coming up in September.

Um, and right now we don't have enough to cover daycare. So, we're trying to figure out what can we do to get to at

least where we can afford daycare and then also pay off debt.

>> What kind what kind of school payment?

>> Uh the school payment itself right now is $360.

Um but that's just one that's the the private, you know, Sally M that's out right now.

Everything it's a loan. It's a student loan.

>> Yes, that's my wife's student loan. >> Oh, I thought you meant she was in school. Okay, >> got it. And how much is dayare? >> She's in a she's in a break right now.

Uh daycare is going to be $1,600 a month. >> And when you say your wife is in a break, when does she go back to school or when did you plan for her to go back?

>> That's up in the air. She finds out by tomorrow whether she's allowed to go back. Right now, the school is is not being very kind with her having a baby.

So, she plans on going back in the fall.

>> Can you afford for her to go back in the fall? It doesn't sound like it. So she's

she's on grants for schools. So that that is her school's covered and if the grants don't work, her schools pay or her work pays for it. So they do like a they pay for her college. >> So she works also.

>> She does. Yes, she full-time. >> And the 360 is for an old student loan.

It's not an ongoing tuition payment.

>> Correct. >> Got it. Okay. >> Why are you paying is that a federally insured student loan or a private student loan?

>> It's a private. >> Oh, okay.

All right. >> All right. So, what does she make at work?

>> She brings in 2,000 a month >> and 1,600 is the daycare.

>> Yes. >> Well, that doesn't work. >> No.

>> And of course, you know, that may our money's combined. So, um, together we make 7,600 a month.

>> I know. But her working, if she's not working, you don't have a $1,600 daycare, right?

>> Correct. Well, she not making 400 B. I mean, we're not working full-time to make 400 bucks, >> right? >> That doesn't work. So, we got to figure out a different job that she does from home or makes twice as much money cuz

her being her working and making $2,000 and paying 1,600 for the privilege is not logical. >> Yeah. >> No, I I would work part-time from home and make more money net of daycare and

be home with a baby. Um, that's step one. And then step two is you look at what you can do to pick up extra jobs.

And oh, sell the car. I didn't even ask about it. I don't even know if it's there, but probably sell the car.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

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Faith is in Boisee. Hi, Faith. How are you?

>> Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> Um, I just want to I just want to start off with saying I just know that this is

a first world problem and I'm grateful to have it, but I really need your advice. >> I'll try. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, we need to know if we should

pay capital gains at the uh number of

$50,000 to the IRS or if we should reinvest

using a 1031 exchange.

>> So, you're selling a piece of uh investment real estate?

>> Yes, we are. >> For how much?

>> Um probably uh we're listing it at $4.99.

So you've depreciated. Your adjusted basis is approaching zero.

>> Um no. Um but we are um we'll probably

make about 300,000 equity on it after.

>> Yeah. Okay. That' be 45,000. But that's a equity is not equity. Equity is not your basis or your tax basis.

>> Right.

And let me tell you, we've gone over this with all kinds of like tax people

and >> Okay, so the tax people are saying you have a $300,000 gain at 15% that'd be

$45,000, >> right? >> Okay. Is that that's what you're hearing? Correct. >> And then with all of the money we've invested into the rental, they're saying we'll probably walk away with a $50,000

capital gains tax. So, we can pay that

or we can take that money and reinvest it into something else.

>> Okay. Let me stop. Let me stop you a second because I'm I'm concerned that the number you're giving me is is where it's coming from because and I want you to go back and double check that. Let's walk through the basics of that and then we'll go back to your question. Okay.

>> So, when you bought the bought to me, but I'll try. >> That's okay. when you bought the property, um >> Mhm. >> you're selling it for approximately 500

>> and um you're thinking you have about a $300,000 gain. So when you bought it, um

uh you probably paid 300,000 for it, let's call it, okay? And then you've been depreciating it, which lowers your basis, and you've been doing capital improvements to the property, which increases your basis.

Yep. >> Okay. That adjusted basis down by

depreciation and up by capital improvements subtracted from your sale

price subtract and that number subtracted from your expenses for selling is your gain. And I can't tell

from the way you're wording this if that gain is 50,000 or if your tax is 50,000.

>> The tax I was told is 50,000 after someone else worked out all those numbers. And the property, what kind of property is it you're selling?

>> It's a single dwelling.

>> Okay. So, it's it's a rental house.

Okay. >> And you're s you sold it. Why?

>> Well, we want to sell it because where we're living now and we're renting right now >> um is so extremely expensive. So, our ultimate goal is to lower our monthly

housing costs >> and take this equity and buy a home.

>> Yeah. either buy a home or we thought buy a duplex so we don't have to pay capital gains tax >> if you live in it you >> which is a whole another thing. >> Yeah, that's a mess. That's >> that's a hot mess.

>> Can she do that and live in the other side of the duplex? >> Yeah, but you you got to try to figure out a way to bifrocate the duplex and that's really troubling. Mhm.

>> Um it's not >> And in the area that we're wanting to live, um a duplex, even if it was only

like 1,400 on each side, square feet on each side, would be close to a million.

>> I I would pay the gains and use the money and buy the buy the home that you need to buy. >> You're forcing yourself all into a duplex. You wouldn't have bought a duplex anyway.

>> The only reason you're doing that is to save this game >> and to try to play some kind of shell game with this money. Um, and so, no, I

I'm going to pay the tax, get clean, >> and um, just buy the home that you're supposed to buy that you need to buy that fits your budget with the money that you guys have from the sale of this and from what other money you've stacked up. Put as much down as you can put down. And um, don't get caught up

because you're forcing yourself into a duplex. And if you're living in one side of it, you can't 1031 that side. And yet

there's not two sides to a duplex in terms of the there's no line down the middle that you can say one side's investment and one side's not unless it's a zero lot line and it's not. It's a duplex. So you're getting yourself into a real potential barrel of fish

hooks if you get audited. And I'm not sure how you'd come out on that. I wouldn't screw with it for all that. And you wouldn't be buying a duplex if it wasn't for this one simple issue. And so I just ignore the issue and go do the house you're supposed to do. not let taxes force you into a decision you wouldn't have made otherwise. >> I like that. I like that. >> And that's the way I would go at it. So,

yeah, but if you live in one side, does it become your personal residence? Oh, but the other side is rented, so that's a rental property. Yeah, but it's one property. >> Very confusing. >> It's a singular property. It's not a dual property. If you bought two properties attached, two condos that

were attached at the wall, then one of them would be an investment. You could 1031 into that. could not 10:31 into the other >> because you can't 1031 into a personal residence as she's already discovered.

>> But um I also Faith want you to go back

unless you guys have owned that property a very long time. I'm not sure the

numbers you're getting that that's an unusual if you've spent money on the property doing capital improvements that's an unusual gain. So, but I I would look at

it and try to just make sure that your adjusted basis that you understand that and that the difference is times 0.15%

for your capital gains tax is the 50,000. I it might be it might be I might be wrong, but I really want to understand it before I move forward just to be double sure, triple sure, but no, I would not do a 1031 in this case because it's forcing you into a purchase you would not otherwise make. It's a good question. Interesting discussion.

Thank you. Zach's in love, Texas. Hi, Zach. How are you?

Hey, I'm great. How are y'all?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, doing well until your lady volunteers beat my lady Raiders in softball, but all things considered um pretty well. Um but my question is um

I'm a uh 10 1099 employee uh 1099 um

here in Lok and I have recently done

better and better in our career field and uh >> thank you and I I've been definitely trying to I've been maxing out my Roth IRA and that's gone well and well um

even maxing that out I'm not hitting my 15% in uh the baby step that I'm in where I'm debtree and everything but my home. But my question uh revolves around

um I have a tax professional with the heart of a teacher that is telling me, "Hey, you might consider a traditional IRA with your escort as a 1099 uh uh

tax. Uh >> you have an escorp." >> I do. Yes. >> H Okay. >> Yes. >> Um well, cheaper than that, you do you have employees in your escort other than you? >> Uh no, it's just me. >> Okay. Yeah. I you can set up a uh what's called a simple IRA, which is a 401k for

small businesses.

>> And you're the only employee.

>> Yes, sir. >> And you can max it out.

>> Okay. >> And just hit your Smart Investor Pro up.

And And the good news is that it's it's basically 401k for small business. They call it a simple IRA. And the good news is it's $15 a year administration cost.

It costs nothing. >> Oh, it's nothing. Yeah. >> Yeah. like a big 401k like our company, you know, we pay tens of thousands of dollars a year to administer it for a,000 employees, right? And then we have to pay another $40,000 to have it audited and all that stuff. You don't have to do any of that with a simple.

It's all just $15. It's like setting up an IRA. It's like setting up another Roth IRA. And you can do a simple Roth.

So, you can just make it more Roth, more good, and put it in there. If you did have employees, you have to match 3%.

>> Yes, sir. If you ever hire someone for your escorp other than yourself, you'd have to match 3%. But the weird thing is

you can actually match yourself.

>> So, which really serves absolutely no

purpose unless you're well, if you're maxed out, it would serve a purpose. If you're going to put all the full amount in, that would get you there.

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

And that's what you'll get with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings, and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So, no more wondering where your money's going.

You're telling it where to go. Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

So Jade's just teaching me something at the break that uh goes to our last caller. So the simple IRA for small business is what I said it was. It is an inexpensive way to set up a 401k for a small business. If you have employees, you have to match 3%. All that was correct that I told him. You cannot put as much into a simple IRA as you can a

solo 401k. But Jay, the solo can only be

if you have only yourself and your spouse. >> That's right. Only the owner and the spouse. >> But you can't have any employees with solo, but you can put more in it. >> That's right. So, if you're a high ultra high income earnner on self-employed

1099, no employees and you max out your

both of you match out your Roth IAS, you can also do the solo which will get you way up there then. I mean, you can put >> up to 72 thou uh up to 72,000 is the

contribution limit >> with matching yourself and doing all kinds of other girrations in there to get it to work. Yeah. Okay. So, there's two types that'll work for you. Solo and Simple. They are a little different product, but you can learn about both of them from a Smart Vster Pro. And you can find your Smart Vster Pro at ramseyolutions.com.

Gregory and Kimberly are on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey

Solutions, which can only mean one thing. Where are you guys from?

>> Bay City, Michigan. >> I love it. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> About $300,000.

>> I love it. How long did it take you? 72

months. >> 72 months. And your range of income during that time? >> About 180,000.

>> Okay, cool. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I'm an occupational therapist, rehab director. >> Awesome. >> And I'm an electrical manager at a pickle plant. >> Great. Very cool.

>> And I'm guessing with that length of time and that amount of money, where y'all from again? >> Bay City, Michigan, >> which is near what? >> Two hours north of Detroit. >> Okay, cool. >> All right. I have something in mind here when I'm thinking about 300k of debt.

>> What was it? >> Must be your house. >> Well, we had about uh $70,000 in consumer debt and >> cons student loans, credit cards, leased cars. >> Wow. >> Silly things. >> And our house for last >> and the house. >> Baby steps. >> You are debtree everything. I'm looking at weird people.

>> Look at you guys. Way to go, y'all.

Excellent. So, what's this house worth?

>> $275,000.

>> I love it. And how much have you got saved in your nest egg so far?

>> About $688,000.

>> All right. You are almost millionaires.

>> Well, if you consider that we also have about $46,000 in liquid assets.

>> YOU DO. YOU ARE BABY STEPS MILLIONAIRES.

>> Way to go, you guys. I'M SO PROUD of you. >> So, uh Wow. How old are you two?

>> I'm 58. >> 54. And you're millionaires. And you started with nothing. >> Surreal. >> How long you've been married?

>> 33 years. >> Wow. >> Congratulations.

>> That is so cool. So very well done. So

tell us your story. How did you get started on all this Ramsey stuff 72 months ago? >> And well, it actually started in 2014 when we moved to a town in Ohio and uh

wanted to start working on my retirement and went to a financial adviser and they said, "Well, you can't really invest until you get out of debt. And it was at that point where I felt like I was going to die at my desk.

And in 2018, I met a a guy where I

worked named uh Jeff. Uh I called him one F Jeff because I messed up. He's only one F and his Jeff. And I told him about my situation and he says, "You need Dave." I said, "Who's this Dave?" Dave Ramsey. He says, and I was like, "Who is this? Some snake oil salesman?

What's up?" >> Yeah. So, I started listening to your show and I listened to about for about a year and >> and it took me a while to get on board.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz a snake oil salesman takes a minute.

>> I understand. No issue with that at all.

>> What changed your mind, Kimberly?

>> Uh, we were just drowning in debt, living paycheck to paycheck, and just tired of being stressed out all the time. >> So, I'll try anything. Yeah, >> even Dave. Yeah.

>> Yeah, I understand. Yeah, that's how it happens a lot. I like it. I like it.

>> Very cool. Okay. So, at that point sometime you all had to have a sit down >> and go, "All right, let's do something." What? Tell me about that moment. Do you remember it? >> We started selling everything and we we her and I we we did agree to it's time to do something because like you keep saying, we're sick and tired of being sick and tired. And so we I think it was

April of 2019, we said, "It's time.

Let's do it." And we started selling everything. As you said, the car kids were about concerned about they were next and and uh just started pouring

money. We had spreadsheets. We used the Every Dollar app. We just did everything we could to get out of debt. And

December of 2019, I turned in a stupid car, a lease. And

it was at that point where we're like, "Holy smokes, we're out of debt." >> Everything just in time for co >> Yeah. Yeah. And then last year, last year we uh we decided to move out of Ohio and move back to Michigan. And uh

we sold our house down there. It took a while, but it was about December 9th when we closed on our house in Bay City

and we paid cash for the house.

>> WOW. >> WOW. >> I we walked out of the title office, which blew my mind. It only took a half hour. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I bet I looked at her, it's like we're debtree. completely debtree.

>> Yeah, it was just we're in baby step seven. What is this? And who pays cash for a house? >> You do. It was amazing.

>> Wow. >> It was insane. >> Exhilarating free.

>> Congratulations. How's it feel to have no payments in the freaking world?

>> It's awesome. It >> It's makes the monthly budge a lot easier. Let's put it that way.

>> Yeah, it's pretty simple. Wow.

>> So, what what big thing, Kimberly, are you guys going to do to celebrate >> that you have no payments in the world and you're millionaires?

>> Uh, we came here to do this.

>> Y'all are people of simple taste.

>> You are.

>> No, seriously. You going to go on a trip, buy a car? What are you going to do? You need to do something. >> Look for another sailboat.

>> A sailboat? Bay City. Okay. All right.

So you have a little one, you need a bigger one. >> No, we sold >> You sold it. So you got to replace it.

>> Yeah, we sold it and when we moved out of Ohio, we sold >> So what's the budget on this sailboat?

>> Yeah, about 16,000 maybe.

>> Okay. All right. That's nice. Very nice.

>> I love that for you guys. >> Good for you. Congratulations.

>> And I got to tell you, it will glide on the water better than that one with payments. >> Even the one Even the one we sold didn't have payments. >> Okay. All right. It just was helping you get out of the other payments. Okay.

A lot of people would have taken the 275 from the sale of the house and used it as a down payment on a bigger house.

>> No. >> How did you walk us through your mentality there? >> Uh last kid was out of the house. We were empty nesters.

>> So we went from 4 acres and a huge house

down to a very simple, you know, 1,200

foot >> easy to take care of >> halfacre house. >> Halfacre house. It made it a lot easier. Yours all yours. Home sweeters. Yep. Wow. Way to go.

>> Excellent guys. I'm proud of you. Who was cheering you on as you went?

>> Our kids mostly and co-workers from time

to time, you know. >> Yeah. The guy that recommended Dave.

>> Yeah. >> Jeff with 1F. Yeah. >> I wish I could find him.

I would give him I would buy him a drink or something. >> Yeah. Amen. Well, congratulations.

We're very very proud of you >> and we really appreciate you coming all the way down here and sharing your story and I can't wait to send us pictures of the sailboat. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, that's that's very cool.

Good for y'all. You get you're living the dream, man. >> That's how it works. Well done, Gregory and Kimberly, Bay City, Michigan.

Quite a journey.

months. Debtree everything, house and everything. And in the process, become baby steps millionaires making 180.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Three, two, one.

>> We're debtree.

>> I love it.

>> There we go. >> So good. So good. >> Oh man.

Hey, you know you're serious when you sell the sailboat. >> You know you're serious when you take the 275 and buy a house in cash.

>> Mhm. And move down. go down in house to make >> while the kids are gone. Yeah. We don't need to Yeah. And don't have to keep up the the upkeep. She's right about that.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

Buying or selling a home is a big decision. last people sold their house and changed cities and moved down. You got to make decisions carefully about that. That's a big one. >> House is one of the biggest transactions you'll ever do. And you need a high quality, high octane, high protein real

estate agent. If you want a Ramsey trusted agent, go to ramseyolutions.com/agent.

If you want to learn more about the market trends, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or on YouTube. Our scripture of the day is Psalms 143:10. Teach me to do your will,

for you are my God. May your good spirit lead me on level ground. Henry Ford said, "The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing." >> Love that. >> There we go. Ben is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Ben. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

a question or need some help. Um, really

need help and questions.

I have a issue trying to get my wife to agree to a budget.

Um, the way things are is that she will

look at money in the account and look it

as a way of there's this amount of

money, this is how much I can spend.

And I I've been struggling. I've been It's the money in the accounts always been causing problems as far as trying to >> Okay. Your phone's breaking up. Can you get where you can speak directly into it and keep it clear?

>> Hear me now. I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Try again. So So your wife thinks there's money just cuz there's some in the account and you're having trouble getting her to understand we don't have all that money because some of it's got to pay the electric bill next week.

>> Correct. So what I've done is it's caused problems in the past. So, what I've actually done is I've

I've pulled money into the um to the account into one account to make sure the house gets paid, but we constantly run into issues with um money um being left in the primary account.

>> Okay. Um so, let me stop you for a second. How long y'all been married?

>> We've been married for 14 just under 14 years.

>> Oh gosh. And how old are you guys?

>> I'm 58. She's 42, >> let me tell you. >> So, why does a 42-y old woman not grasp the idea that we have bills to pay, >> right?

>> She does, but anything outside of that

is a open invitation to spend.

>> No, it's not. She's a 42-y old grown woman. She's not a four-year-old.

>> I agree with you completely. I agree with you completely. >> Okay. So why when would you look at her and say I need a grown woman to join me in my marriage and join me for our

household good and that's you can't spend like you're in Congress. We're going to write down together where the money's going to go and you and I are going to stick to that and if you can't keep that contract we need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

>> I agree. Um let me give you a little bit more of a backstory. So, I did lose my

job probably about a year and a half ago and that put a lot of financial burden on her.

Since that time, I've got a job. You gone through baby step one. >> Okay. I'm sorry. What financial burden did it put on her? She was the only one working.

>> She was the only one working. That's >> No, it put a financial burden on the household, >> right? Cuz her job remained the same.

>> Correct. So there's no financial burden other than the household had less income during the fact that one of you weren't working for rich or for poor in sickness and in health. That does not give you a reason to overspend.

>> Quite the opposite.

>> Are you back to working?

>> I'm back to working. >> Are you making what you were making?

>> I'm actually making more. >> Good. >> What do you make? >> Uh debts are stabilized. What do you

make?

>> I make roughly about 125.

>> What does she make?

>> She makes around about 35.

>> Okay. So, let's start fresh. Here's how the conversation needs to go. Honey, we've tried to work on this together several times. I'm very concerned and

I'm really worried about our relationship, our marriage, and our future.

and I need desperately to get closure on

our money. If we put all of our money in one account and before the month begins, we both sit down and we both have a vote

and we both decide where this $150,000

a year, $160,000 a year is going to go.

We're going to decide this month, here's what our take-home pay is, and every dollar is going to have an assignment.

Every dollar is going to have a name.

You get a vote, I get a vote. We're going to come to a conclusion that every one of those dollars is allocated. We're not going to spend anything except what you and I have decided is good for our future. Can you help me and can we do that together? If she says no, you don't

have a financial trouble. You have a marriage problem.

>> Okay? If she says yes, now put your big girl pants on, your big boy pants on, and both of you sit down like two grown-ups and make adult decisions

without any shame of I've lost my job or

somebody had stress because of that.

Well, we all had stress because of that.

Hello. But that's in the past. Today, we make $160,000 and today we need to get out of debt and become wealthy and outrageously generous and have a wonderful life. But that's not going to happen by accident. And it's going to happen when we sit down. Both of us have a vote. Both of us have a voice and we plan it out. What am I missing, Jade?

>> I don't think you're missing much. I think that I I don't want to say this, but I think he's afraid to challenge her

>> and like push on this.

>> You sound like you're a little too sweet. Yeah. >> Too nice.

>> I'm a southern boy. You're here.

>> You know, I think she can take I think she can take it. I think she can handle you having a very serious conversation

when you're saying this can't continue.

This is a detriment to both of us. It's a detriment to our relationship.

>> And I'm not asking you to do what I say.

I'm asking you to do what we decide together. >> And and I think that she can handle it.

>> And if she can't handle that, then there's something else going on.

>> And uh but this thing of I just do whatever the flip I want after 14 years of marriage and I'm 42 years old.

There's nothing southern about that.

That's just crazy. >> Yeah. Cuz it wouldn't fly if you were doing whatever you wanted. I guarantee you that. >> Yeah. >> And uh she'd be calling us going, "How do I get my husband under control?" My husband >> under control. Right. I mean, it's like, "Wow." Uh >> yeah. There's When you become an adult, you have to do the things that require adulting in your

marriage. You know, it you have bills to pay. You got pay the bills. You have to work together and just do your own thing. >> See, you you can use the downloading of

the Every Dollar app and we're going to build this together >> as a way to do the conversation.

>> Yep. >> Because you're kind of starting to fret. You're starting this is a whole new way of us doing this. Instead of me being your daddy >> Yeah. >> and little girl does whatever she wants.

Or you being my mommy and I get an allowance from you. >> Do it together. >> I don't care what your mom and daddy did. I don't care what my mom and daddy did.

I don't care what we did for the last 14 years. We're going to build a new thing going forward starting with this every dollar app tonight. Let's sit down together and both be grown-ups and both decide on purpose what's going to happen to this money and both of us push through. Y and there there's there's some relational breakthroughs when that happens.

>> I agree because for him it's going to have to be he's going to have to share something with her beyond dollars and cents. It can't just be well you got to stick to the budget. You're not doing the money. He's got to share something that has a greater why behind it.

makes me feel scared when I see this. It makes me have a hard time trusting you when you uh react like this. He's going to have to share something that's a little bit of a deeper level when talking about the money so that she understands it and vice versa.

>> The breakthrough at our house was when Sharon finally clicked that this was the best way she could get her voice,

>> her vote counted. this is how she >> the budget was a mechanism for her to have a vote that counted >> because she's dealing with Mr. Strong Personality over here, right?

>> Who just does, you know, just does it and then you figure it out, right? But that was that was like I don't know 30 years ago, right? But um but that was still a breakthrough. That's how she got a vote. >> Yeah. >> With a strong personality. And sometimes that's how you get the princess off the couch or the or the irresponsible guy to

plug in and be a man. Yeah. whatever whatever analogy you want to use on this, but that's that's a what a lot of people face, Ben. It's not just you guys. It's most people struggle in this area, but if you can if you can solve for it, it's gamechanging. That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 22. Can Trump’s Plan Clean Up America’s Financial Mess?


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD0ZOogTW5w) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:31 |

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[Music]

this inflation thing is a big deal so in the first 90 days The Strokes that you

make to change the economy when you're elected that's pretty dramatic I believe

I'll be able to get energy down to 50%

of what it is right now within a period

of less than a year I know small businesses are where jobs come from when you guys in government can take your hands off of small business we're able

to employ people and change things so how can you help small businesses you have to love what you do if you don't

love what you do it's not going to work it's the largest tax cuts in the history of our country that's why we became so

successful you think we can do that again yeah I think we can go lower if I don't turn my head at the exact 90°

angle if I was a little off I'm not doing this very nice interview with you

I hear you going back to Butler and finish the speech I am I'm going to

say hey guys Dave Ramsey here with the

Ramsey show if you don't know what the Ramy show is it's a show about life

about money about

relationships it's not a show about

politics we specifically over the years

have tried to remind you over and over again that what happens in your house is

more important for your success than

what happens in the white house we also realize that this election is a really

important time right now the people are

really looking at what's happening

there's a real divisiveness in the air a

lot of anger in the air so our team

reached out to vice president Harris's

team about the opportunity to sit down

with her for a long form interview and

reached out to president Trump's team

about the opportunity to sit down for a

long form interview with him and to talk

about ideas talk about what's going to

happen not what has happened and not

about personalities and not about name calling because both sides are pretty good at all of that stuff and the fact that I sit down with either one of these candidates is going to piss some of you off and frankly I'm perfectly fine with

that it's something I wanted to do and I felt like it was something we needed to talk about so I find myself sitting here

in Trump Tower getting ready to

interview president Trump for a few

minutes I think you're going to find this really

interesting so president Trump thanks for taking time to sit down with us honor to be with you good to hang out with you as you know we do a show called The Ramsey Show and talk to regular

folks every day calling in most of the

time with financial trouble sometimes with financial victories uh stuff we've taught them to do the basic Grandma's

Common Sense stuff right and that

audience that's going to be watching this is they're not concerned with a lot of

things but they are concerned with $8 eggs $5 gas 7% interest rates and a

house they can't afford with wages not going up as fast as house prices this

inflation thing is a big deal so in the first 90 days The Strokes that you make

uh to change the economy when you're elected are a big deal what are you

what's the first things you're going to do on that in that well in terms of inflation you're right and it's almost

inflation over the economy if you want to really know because people are getting wiped out like never before I

think it's the highest inflation we've ever had they say it's the highest in 48

years I think it's the highest ever

there's never been any mess like this and it's because of what they did with energy also then they topped it with

spending with money that trillions and trillions of dollars that they didn't need that's being just wasted but uh the

first thing you have to do is get the energy down if you get the energy down other things are going to follow you want to get the interest rates down too

and interestingly even interest rates are going to follow energy because it's going to take that burden off the shoulders of the economy and off the

shoulders of inflation itself and we are

going to drill at a level that you

haven't seen since let's say four or

five years ago but even more so we would

have been so dominant by this point if

you remember uh when you go back to the

beginning of this really failed Administration that when right now what they did was they turned off the energy

they turned off everything that I had you turn back on the Keystone you're going to turn back on the drill baby drill line and the in your acceptance

speech at the convention it says it all

you know I'd like to use another line but there's no line that's better and we're going to drill baby drill but the fact that they turned it off and then

the energy if you look back at the very initial period of their Administration

the the numbers started going through

the roof the energy numbers inflation

was good and then they went back to

Trump where they're trying to equal it

and it kept it bad as opposed to

horrific and it's been really bad and

the energy has been very expensive but nothing like it could have been so they went back to Trump type things but we

would have been now three to four times

more we would have been dominating the entire world on energy we have more than anybody else as you've heard me say but

as you also know right we have I call it

Liquid Gold we have more Liquid Gold under our feet than anybody else actually by far we would have dominated

we would have been taking care of Europe we would have been taking care of Asia we would have been taking care you know anoir in Alaska is the biggest find

anywhere in the world it could be as big as Saudi Arabia and I got it Ronald

Reagan couldn't get it nobody could get it I got it it was done ready to start

and when these people came in they turned it off they they they terminated

it nobody could believe it I don't know

if people realize that you know 10 to

15% of the entire economy is energy and

it weaves its tentacles through

everything else so $5 gas affects the

bread truck who delivering the bread and that affects the cost of the bread then

and so you getting that plentiful right

changes everything so I have a little

thing that I've been saying lately because I think it's easily achievable

you know we pay very high energy costs and especially now but we're paying very very high I believe I'll be able to get

energy down to 50% 50

% of what it is right now within a

period of less than a year wow that's

pretty good it's going to happen fast

okay it's going to happen fast but what are you going to do to do that what causes that they're going to drill they're going to they're going to Frack they're going to do things that they they have tremendous addition taking the RS off taking the reg yeah we oh we have

to they put them back on they put regulations back on that areas that have

no environmental real meaning they don't

let them drill they they're taking leases away government leases that you're hearing about I think we can get

energy costs down to half of what they

if we do that that's pretty dramatic

everything all of those inflated prices

are going to come down with it I think the other piece of that and I know he was part of your Administration and you know I were talking before we turn the cameras on that we have a mutual friend in art laugher and I know he helped a

little bit with the tax code in the last Administration and I personally have experienced the laugher curve that lower taxes right causes increased revenues to

the federal government because it heats up the economy and I'm a small business

guy when you lower my taxes it doesn't mean I put it in my pocket it means I hire people right and so uh talk about

lowering taxes in the first year of your Administration yeah you probably saw my

plan and I think we have something really good u i was yesterday in North

Carolina which is great that was the

furniture capital of the world and China

then went in and did a number and took

so much of that business you know most of that business the talent I used to go

there to buy furniture for hotels and things North Carolina yep in Hickory I

was in Hickory yesterday and made a

speech and we're going to bring it all back what we're doing is there's sort of a two- fa face number one I took taxes

from 39% to 21% you know that better

than anyone it's the largest tax cuts in

the history of our country and that was

great that's why we became so successful

you think we can do that again yeah I think we can go lower and I'll tell you what I'm doing uh I'm bringing it from 21 to 15 but you have to manufacture

your product here and then you pay 15%

and then I'm going to put tariffs on

countries so they can't come in and steal our business so that our

businesses now can be competitive not

that I mean China came in and just stole

all our furniture and and many other

industries by the way including steel

and I save Steel by putting 50% and 100%

tariffs on all of all of the steel that

they were dumping but we're going to do

so in other words this is a dream for you then we're bringing uh the tax rate

from 21 remember it was 39 and it was

really 50 if you add state and local and

all the other things so we're going to bring it down from 21 to 15 I got it

down to 21 which everyone said was

impossible and got it approved by Congress so it's you know it's there and

we're going to bring that down to 15 but

you have to make your product in the

United States yeah and we do see Federal

revenues go up when the taxes go down

because the economy goes you saw it with me so we saw it with Reagan too you saw

it with Reagan so at 39% and then down to 21% you would think

we' do half or you'd do much less in the

First full year we did much more Revenue

in the United States than we did it 39

in other words we took in much more

money which is how you solve the deficit I mean Bill Clinton almost balance the budget with the exact same yeah that's true that's true he did and cost cutting

yeah we have plenty of cost cutting to do too and that's okay that that's in

fact I'm gonna ask Elon who's a great

guy but he's a pretty good great interview yeah oh that was a great interview that was that was some

interview we did uh pretty big numbers I

hear we did like 900 million people or

something that was a pretty good but

he's a great guy and he gave me a full

endorsement and all of that but uh he

he's Got a Good Sense on that there's

tremendous uh cost cutting that we can

do and affect nothing just we're not

going to affect anybody we're not going to hurt anybody we have to save Social

Security and keep it good and solid I

don't want to be raising ages or anything I don't want to do uh they're

putting migrants into Social Security

when when they get finished they are if

she got elected this country is going

bust if she got elected we're going back

to 1929 dep depression it's it would be

a disaster for Medicare Social Security

they're allowing millions and millions

of people to come in you can't use these schools anymore the quality of life in

this country has gone so bad because of

what they've done one of the things that

our viewers know about us we work with

uh tens of thousands of small business people and so coaching them 54% of the

gross domestic product is businesses 500

people or less almost everyone in America H over half almost 60% of people

work for yeah a small business and I

know small businesses are where jobs come from not from government so politicians don't create jobs small businesses do pisses people like me off when they

when the politicians say they're making ones making the jobs we're the ones making the jobs but when you guys when you guys in government can take your hands off of small business and allow us

to do our thing we're able to employ

people and change things so how can you help small businesses well the best way

is just letting them do what they have

to do but we still have to give them a playing field if we don't give them a Level Playing Field they will die and

that's what happened before that's why China came in that's why all the they

came in and they came in at a level like

nobody's ever seen and we did nothing about it so the word tariff to me is a

very beautiful word because it can it

can save our country truly and yet I

think because of graft because of a lot

of uh Consulting payments and other

things that given by other countri

we have so much fighting with politicians on using it I saved our

Steel Industries by putting tariffs on

steel that China came in and dumped and

you know what they do they dump and dump and dump everybody goes out of business then they buy those businesses very cheap and then they raise the prices to

higher than they ever were that's one of

the many benefits that they have if they want to do it but by putting tariffs on

as an example in the furniture business in uh in North Carolina it was so vibr

and they stole our business and they

charge us if you wanted to build a

furniture place if you want to sell your

furniture in China they won't take it

but if you want to build a plant in China to make furniture in China using

their labor they open it we're doing the

same thing but a lot of people like oh

well we don't want to have tariffs the

country was at the richest point in its

history in the 1890s it was all tariffs

if you looked at William McKinley as an

example he was a big tarff president

they had committees that were put in

charge of what to do with the money we

were taking in so much money and

McKinley would say why should we let other people come in and steal our factories and steal our workers and

steal our jobs and why shouldn't we

benefit and he tariffed the other

countries and we made so much and then

they went to the income tax system later on but they would actually have they had a blue ribbon committee our country was

so rich they didn't know what to do with

the money and this Blue Ribbon committee

was set up to determine how can we spend

all of this money and they took it in

through tariffs but we can turn our

country around make it strong and then

guard it with tariffs yeah let's change

gears for a second my wife Sharon and I were in Scotland two weeks ago and we

played a bunch of different courses there including Turnberry good which arguably according to the golf guys I was playing with is the nicest course in the UK right now and certainly the halfway house lighthouse out there Turnberry is amazing but what I what I came away with

not only the golf course great just just to give you a huge compliment you know that but the staff and the team the

Excellence in the hotel in the restaurants in the golf shop everybody

we dealt with talk about what it's like to work for Donald Trump how do you hire leaders and put people in place that do

that because I know you're obviously not there personally managing that but you

put a culture in place in your organization and that applies to the administration as well hiring people that are quality leaders well my son Eric is very much involved and he runs a

lot of it and Don helps out a lot and uh

Ivanka to a lesser extent you know she's

a great mother and everything she did a

fantastic job in the administration all

she wanted to do is get people jobs she'd go around and see uh Exxon and see

Walmart she wanted jobs for people it's

really pretty amazing she could had a very glamorous job and she would have done well but Eric's done a great job

and I did a similar type of job when I

was doing it now I'm doing a thing called running for president so I don't get but we rebuilt turnbury turnburry

was considered one of the greatest courses in the world because the land is

so incredible right with the ocean and you know that ninth hole over the you're hitting over the ocean how good a golf are you H 13 all right that's not great

I'm just I've only been playing 5 years I'm just learning oh oh really enjoyed

you and Bryson's 50 wasn't that that was

fun that was a great video that one did well in terms of the ratings it did and

he can swing a club he can swing and he's a great guy and he is very long

very straight and you know what he's a

great putter yeah one of the best Putters he's one of the best Putters in the world he that was quite an exciting

thing we got it down to 50 you actually pulled one hole off I watched it yeah all road on you you carried one even more than one hole if you want to but we

uh we we did well we did well you did it

very fun so what leadership qualities

when Eric's hiring did you teach him to look for well I I like the

recommendation business but what I like

best is taking people that are in the company and moving them up you take a

waitress as an example and she becomes

the head of the restaurant you say because you know if certain people are good and when they work for you already

you know you that's better than recommendation but if you don't do that or if you can't do that for some reason

you really need strong reference es and

you and then they have to enjoy their job if they don't enjoy their job they're not going to be very good at it

so I ended up at a table um Ronnie

Barrett yeah Barrett uh 50 cal was a

friend of ours and I ended up at a table with him at an NRA uh convention with

Eric and Donald got to spend some time with both of them and uh you're right they're impressive how do you raise great kids what' you do so the grandkids

are tur out the granddaughter killed it

we have oh how convention wow she's a

great she's a great golfer by the way she's a great speaker too she was good

she was a beautiful person in every way

she took over that whole Republican convention and Kai Kai our beautiful Kai

um so what's your parenting St the one

thing I always told my kids no drugs no

alcohol no cigarettes now in my day there were no

drugs there was alcohol and cigarettes

and and I had brother that went through

a lot with alcohol and and uh he taught

me a lot he really taught me a lot and

my brother Fred and he had a problem

with alcohol to put it mildly and he

would always and he was quite a bit older than me and he'd been through it

and he he would say no alcohol I never

want to see you drink you know very strong and he'd also say no cigarettes

but because you know cigarettes are like

you don't need if you don't smoke if you

don't drink you have no problem with

staying off it when you do drink and you

it gets it's very hard to stay off it I mean I've seen very strong people that

cannot get off but the way you get off

is if you never start if you never start

I never had a glass of alcohol in my life I've never had I've never had a

glass of alcohol if you can believe it I think largely because of my brother I think if I did i' prob I probably would have a problem you know personality type

right but I I never had it last I have

no longing for it I have friends that

are in the wagon as they say and I watch

them watching trays go by the tray is

going by oh it's like they have you know

it's it's a thing that they can't get

over with same with smoking it's tough

I've seen guys just grab somebody's cigarette they they haven't had one in a long time and to them it's like the

greatest sensation if you've never

smoked you never you just don't have that problem so I tell people for their

children no drugs no alcohol and no

cigarettes they they obviously work

really really hard how' you teach them work ethics they have to like what they do if they don't like what they do they do my kids like what they do and I would

say genetically I'm a Believer in

genetics you know I like it I'm I'm good at doing certain things and you know

racehorses like too slow racehorses

don't produce a Kentucky Derby winner

right you know that's not the way it is

but you have to have an ability at something and if if you don't have the ability don't do it but most importantly

do something you like whether it's your parents or not you know your parents want you to go into a business or they want you to go into a store with them if

they have a store I would say that you

have to love what you do if you don't

love what you do it's not going to work

I've never seen it if you don't want to

get up in the morning and go to work now

a lot of people say with all the people

that come after you do you really love

getting up in the morning you understand

that right I be I'm attacked at left and

right but I do because we we make so

much progress we're doing great on the campaign as you probably see we're leading in the campaign now and doing

well we beat Biden and we were up so far

on him and then they said that's like a

fight you're in a fight and they change the fighter in the middle of the right

in the middle of the fight they change the fighter U and now we're we're

beating her very badly I'd be so

interesting to see her in your show so

because I don't believe that she would be able to answer any questions on what

you discuss better than anybody else

well I'm happy to have her if she'd come I'm sure she would be sure she'd love to

come she wouldn't come so I hear you going back to Butler

and finish the speech I am I'm going to

say as I was saying yeah right so when

that happened and you get in the car I

know I saw a clip the other day that Milani was watching on television so she saw the saw the uh shot saw you dodge

saw you go down saw you get up yeah and

how fast were you able to get on the phone talk to her well I know she she

was calling and you know I was a little

tough to take a phone call with blood pouring down your ear yeah people don't

know the ear is the bloodiest part if you get hit in the ear it's it bleeds because there was a lot of blood but uh

no I spoke to her by by the time I got

to the hospital I spoken to her and she was she was sort of watching it um she

had it held off for a couple of minutes

and then somebody called her and said

he's okay he's okay she said what do you mean he's okay what does that mean she

had no idea and then she went back and pressed it and caught up now it was

tough for her tough for my son to he

came out somebody had said uh your

father just got hit and he came in and he was very uh

very riled up yeah it's a tough thing

that was a tough day and and uh I don't

recommend it for anybody I get I get

very lucky or maybe maybe more than luck

yeah if you don't turn your head and start talking about the immigration chart at the precise moment I don't turn

my head at the exact 90° angle if I was

a little off one way or the other it's

uh I'm not doing this very nice

interview with you I wouldn't I wouldn't

be around to do this interview so when

you were in the white house for four years you're you were talking about loving your work earlier um I have the

privilege of loving my work that's why I still work you do that's why I still do it I don't need to obviously anymore just like you don't need to what was the most rewarding thing in the four years that you were

there for you so my whole thing is make

America great again all right that's you know that's where why I do it and we did

it then covid came we did a really good

job on that so it was always

about making it great again I had that I

had the country going just prior to co

coming in at a level that nobody had ever seen and even if you go all four

years it was so good that even with that

terrible Interruption that just destroyed the world we had the greatest

four years the economy was so great the

job numbers were the best ever Etc and I

think just that concept of what I had done the performance yeah but individual

things getting the tax cuts approv biggest tax cuts in history biggest

regulation Cuts in the history of our

country uh rebuilding the military we we

did a job in the mil I rebuilt the whole

military and then you see a lot of that

military being given to Afghanistan

stupidly because they left the country I mean you know and now you see them parading it back and forth uh that was I

think the most embarrassing moment in

the history of our country what they did but there were a lot of individual achievements that we had the creation of

space force you know space force

is now dominating space and when I came

there was no space for it's the first time since Air Force 78 years maybe 80

years by now and we are dominating space

now and we wouldn't be uh we were being

we we were in third place by far and now

we're way in first place and it's very

important militarily it's very important

president Trump thanks for taking time thank you your team told us you got a speech here in a few minutes but we were still able to squeeze this in and I appreciate your time appreciate you hanging out with us a it's a great honor I've watched you for many years I shouldn't say that because but I can say

it from both of us I watched you for many years and a real pro thank you very

much thank you brother good to see you thank you very much thank

---

## 23. Change Starts Today. Don’t Wait Till You’re 65 and Broke | August 20, 2025


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---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of the super hit Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Phone number here is 888255225.

Mark is in North Carolina. Hey, Mark.

How are you?

>> I'm doing very well. I hope you are, sir. >> I'm better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

>> I am 65 years old. I have made

absolutely horrible decisions with money all my life. Uh I have no nest egg. My

wife has maybe 10,000 in a 401k and I've

got maybe a couple thousand.

And uh we have started uh uh the steps

just last payday. We got our $1,000

emergency fund paid and we also got uh

$200 paid down on our smallest unsecured

debt. So now it's only $150 left.

Um I've got uh two other credit cards

and a car loan and a mortgage.

Total debt including mortgage is $137,000.

Um the uh mortgage is a 15-year fixed

rate. Uh it's set up to be paid half a

payment every two weeks. So in 12 months, I've actually paid 13 payments instead of 12.

And since my wife since we don't have

anything lined up for retirement,

I'm trying to figure out what would be the best way for me to go make sure I

get out of all debt with everything I've got. Uh,

I I found out that if I pay just $425

towards my principal each month on my

home, I can have it paid off in five years.

>> What's the balance on your mortgage?

>> 115.

>> Okay. Well, you're scheduled to How How

long um are you into the 15 year?

um 8 months.

>> Okay. So, it's brand new mortgage. All right. Well, doing a bi-weekly, you'll reduce the 15 to about 11 just on the bi-weekly thing that you're doing. Um that that has the same effect of paying an extra payment a year >> as you said, right? >> Cuz 26 halves is 13 holes.

>> And so, you end up with an extra payment a year. And um so that's cool. So,

you've got $22,000 in other debt.

Correct. >> Are you both working still?

>> Yes, sir. >> I'm sorry.

>> Yes, sir. >> What do you make?

>> Uh, the two of us together uh will make

about 105,000.

>> Good news. Okay.

>> First time we've ever broke 100,000.

>> Good for you. Okay. Well, what I would

do is just leave the bi-weekly mortgage alone. Let it run. And let's work the baby steps. Your $1,000 is there. Baby step two is listing your debts smallest to largest, the 22,000.

You need to be done with that in under a year.

>> Well, I can have the uh unsecured debt,

which is minus the mortgage minus the car, uh done in 3 months.

>> Okay, that's good. And so the car is the bulk of the 22 then.

>> Yes, sir. Okay. >> It It's $15,600.

>> Yeah. I I'm saying 22,000 $2,000 a month

is what you need to be putting on your debt or more. >> Uh I'm sorry. I'm not following >> $2,000 a month at least needs to be going on your debt, not counting your house. >> That's 24 grand a year.

So what David >> be done in a year and 24 out of 24,000 out of 105, you got plenty of room to eat. >> Okay. >> So I want you on beans and rice. Rice and beans.

In one year you're 66 and you're debtree. Then you build an emergency fund. Debtree except the house.

So basically, you know, you're like 72 years old still working >> and uh you'll probably have about

200,000 in your nest egg. The house will be paid for and you'll be debtree.

But you're working a while. >> Okay. >> You're working a while because you're broke. Uh >> yes, I am. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that that just plan on that part. As long as your health allows you to do that, then um that's what we're going to do. But yeah, work those baby steps exactly the way they're laid out. Mark, let me send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover to help you get there. But um it it sounds like

that you're very serious about this and it sounds like you're actually going to do it. >> Yeah. The best time to plant the tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.

And I'm glad you're going, "All right, I'm going to start plowing away at this debt. Start investing." And you're doing a lot of good things at once right now.

That's 3640,000 $50,000 a year going into that thing. Um, that's how I'm saying you're gonna you're going to be at 200 250,000 pretty s pretty pretty easily if you follow through. But it's going to be you're going to be in the early 70s when you get there. And but you're going into you're going into your retirement years then debtree with a

small nest egg. And 200,000 is a small nest egg. But you can get there.

>> Yeah. You hang on. Kelly will pick up and we'll get you a copy of Total Money Makeover. It shows you it's the baby steps on steroids. It shows you exactly what to do when and work your way through it. Kelly also signed him up for the new the new every dollar uh because that's going to help him guide him through those stuff. It's going to ping him and tell him to do this and do that.

Show him what to do and that it's more than just doing a budget now. So, good stuff. Very good stuff.

George, those are u sobering calls. I'm 65 years old. I have a car

payment. I have credit card debt. I have a mortgage. And I have no money.

that will keep you up at night. So, if you're 35 and you're listening, that

should be a warning shot across your bow.

Listening to Mark and what he's facing.

You need to determine you don't want to be where he is. And so, don't show up at

the doorstep of 65 broke with a car payment. And where that comes from, and

Mark, thank God, he's got a very good tone to his voice. He's got a very good >> He knew his numbers, too. >> You the the sense of he's already changed. He just got He just needed an implementation plan. He's doing it. So, to Mark's credit, way to go, Mark. >> The wake up calls there. That's the hardest part. >> Yeah. Touchdown. But gang, you know,

when people say stuff like, "Well, you're always going to have a car payment." If people say the stuff like that, just go, "I can't hang out with you. You're dumb.

I'll end up like you. I don't want to be as dumb as you. Well, you have to have a credit card to run up your you have to have air miles and you need a credit score. Ask Mark about how valuable that is right now.

>> Yeah. Dumb. >> You think that you think that matters when you're 65 and you got no money? It don't matter. It just shows how stupid those ideas are that people talk about all through the culture. And if you believe those ideas, then you end up, you know, um so you some of you, this is your this is your warning shot. that you're this this is, you know, God

putting this call right in front of you, begging you to straighten your crap up out there. Come on.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

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[Music]

>> Louie is in New Jersey. Hi Louie. How are you? >> Hey, what's up Dave? How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I got a question. So, in years past, I mean, even recently, I've been getting my health insurance through the uh the marketplace, and it seemed to

make sense as, you know, we were making less money when we first started our businesses. But now that we're doing better and better as time goes on, the numbers are just basically as if I'm paying for regular plans. So, coming up next year, I'll be a family of five and I won't really qualify for a lot of the tax, you know, breaks from it. So, I'm looking at like $1,500 a month in my health insurance, which is, you know, pretty normal.

But when I was running some of the numbers, I'm like, does it even make sense to have health insurance? Cuz I feel like I live in New Jersey, so it's technically, you know, mandatory there. So, I if not, I'd be paying the shared responsibility penalty. So, at my income, I ran the numbers and that would be like4,500 a year.

Now, you know, 1,500 a month, it's $18,000 a year.

assuming you know nothing detrimental happens but like if I told you how many times in the last 6 years we went to the doctors I mean we're pretty natural like holistic people and we don't really go to the doctors that often we don't really take much med medicine >> are you running an HSA >> I am not and I don't know if like I I was almost been thinking of just kind of doing my own because I don't know if I necessarily qualify for it because I think you need to be in a high deductible plan Well, that is a high deductible plan.

You can move into that and that lowers your cost.

here's the problem. You can afford to

take the risk with what you're outlining for the small things.

>> It's the um $250,000 open heart surgery

that'll bankrupt you.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so you can't you can't afford that risk. And that is actually the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is medical bills.

>> Is medical bills? >> Yeah. It's not it's not credit cards. They're number two. So, um you got to have coverage. But what you do need to do is you need to change your coverage because you've covered everything. And so a high deductible plan is what an HSA

is based on. And so most of them are,

you know, I think mine through my company right now, we run a high deductible as one of our options. which is what I carry on me. And I think it's 5,000 deductibles. Is that or or is it 10? >> I think it depends. There's two options for that. I think I run them the one that has the highest deductible because it lowers your premium. I think it might be eight grand for family, something like that. >> Take the highest possible deductible like $8,000. Make sure you have your emergency fund in place.

>> That and then um but what you're looking for and I you know co-pay is usually going to be still be 8020 after the deductible, >> right? and uh and then and so really the

first 25 or $30,000 is all going to be

out of your pocket a lot of it on a big event. But then the HSAs also the high deductible plans also have a stoploss clause and that's typically $10 to $20,000 which means once you reach that out of pocket the plan pays 100%.

So, you can afford that first amount of risk and you probably can cut your

premiums close to in half by going the way I'm talking about. I don't know for sure, but go shopping. Go to Bluec Cross Blue Shield. Go to uh Health Trust, our

guy on the radio that we endorse here.

Let them search for you and find you the best possible deal. And um they they can

help you get that lined up. They're Ramsey Trusted. They they're good guys.

I've known them a long time. and um you

know uh uh let them search it out and tell them you're needing as high a deductible as possible um with the and

the co-pay could even be large as long as the as long as you got a good stop loss on it. That's your three numbers, the deductible, the co-ay, and the stop-loss. Then the fourth number is the resulting premium.

>> Okay? And so we need we just need to get your premium down. Now then you are also in addition to all that able to invest into a health savings account and you'll

have a maximum that you can do on that and George what's that running this year? >> Uh I believe it's close to 8 grand for family. >> Okay. So I max mine out every year and you and that is uh a taxdeductible

amount going into your HSA. It's a an

after or before tax investment. And um

here's the weird thing, Louis, with what you're talking about. You got a healthy family. That's what the Ramsies have been. Knock on wood. And so I've had an HSA since they first allowed it under George W. Bush. That's what the administration that put it in place. I have never >> touched the savings account.

>> Yes. >> And I fully fund it every year. Now I'm 65 and I can start taking it out like it's a retirement account. And guess what? There's a quart million dollars in there. >> Yeah. right? >> That I would have been paying to some stupid insurance company in extra premiums, but I've had low premiums and I took on the risk.

>> But I didn't take on the risk for I didn't take on the risk for a big thing.

>> Yes. >> It's almost the same as like a catastrophic coverage. Not really the same, but more or less. >> That's what we used to call it before HSAs came out.

We used to call them catastrophics. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Because I'm running these numbers and I'm like, I'm giving these guys way too much money.

I don't even use it. I'm like, I could be and and we do very well, you know. I have a great I have like 500,000 just like liquid at any time if something, god forbid, were to happen. >> It's a small price to pay for peace, Lou.

That's the key here. You're you're not Don't think of it as an investment cuz term life is the same way. Well, I'm not even using the thing. Yeah, cuz you're alive.

>> And so, it's not investment. Insurance, >> you know, same thing with your uh homeowners insurance. You know, you don't carry it for It's defense. It's not offense. >> You're like, "Well, we haven't had a house fire in six years. Can I drop it?" Well, I don't have a crystal ball to tell you nothing's ever going to happen.

>> Yeah. So, Health Tr Health Health Trustfinancial.com.

Okay. >> They'll help you shop around. Tell them you talk to us on the air.

>> And they're good guys. I've known, like I said, I've known them 15 years. And that's why they're Ramsey Trust. That's why we do this with them. And they they have brokers that'll shop different companies and different plans with different companies to find the one that fits your family just right, your family of five. And get it all dialed in here.

And let's get the premium down. you take the first dollar risk. In the health insurance world, we call it first dollar risk. And so, um, the more of the first

few dollars, the more of the first 20 or $30,000 of risk you can take in any insurance, uh, homeowners insurance, car insurance, health insurance, the more of that risk you take, uh, the lower your premium just goes way down. Because if you, every time you go to the doctor, you turn in an insurance claim, it it costs you you're going to pay a bazillion dollars a month for that premium. But if you if you got a thing like I go I I don't even know what I when I have turned in an insurance claim. I just go and pay for it because it's not going to I'm cash flow.

You know, the only time I would ever keep up with it even is if I thought we were in a situation where we were going to hit the deductible and I have to go back and drag the bills together. But any kind of medical thing that Sharon or I do, we just pay for it. um let the money grow because it's not a major thing, you know, and we leave the HSA alone and we, you know, accept the low premium through Ramsey Solutions on my HSA plan. >> So, and I took my car insuranceances up to 10 grand.

>> Mainly li mainly liability, but yeah, but the but the thing Yeah, the still an expensive car. So, you know, we'll we'll cover I'll cover I don't care. I'll cover 20 grand of it. It's not that big a thing. But but the the and then your premiums just plummet. They go way down when you start doing that. But you can't do that till you got a little bit of money. And so you got to have the HSA sa

the savings account portion built up and an emergency fund built up to cover these higher deductibles. But always be looking at that folks and get out of the first dollar of insurance coverage.

Well, I want it to cover everything. No, you don't. It's cost too dang much. Your premiums are going to go through the roof. You don't want that at all. And so

it's the problem with uh vision and and dental is, you know, >> it's a wash. >> It's a wash. What you pay for it, you could have just gone to the dentist. >> So unless it's offered for free through an employer or something, you know, sure, take that. >> Exactly. >> But if you're having to pay out of pocket and I did find out HSA max for 2025 is 8,550.

>> Thank you for looking that up. >> It's close. >> Good. Good. Good. Okay. >> It's a It's a great deal because you get triple tax advantages in that HSA.

>> Yeah. And if you use it, it's a, you know, it's it's a taxdeductible

claim. And so if I, if I did pay out of the HSA, I I don't pay taxes on that

money. So the government in my case is paying 37%.

>> Not a bad deal >> of the of the it would have been taxes, right? And so by the by being a pre-tax plan and and a

tax deductible plan, then you get that.

So it's the best way to go. Oh, and these guys at Health Trust are doing a great job for those of you out there that are facing other health insurance things.

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>> This is silly. George August August is

National Make a Will Month.

>> That's dead serious. If anything, >> got him. Got him.

I'll be here all week.

>> Top five reasons people don't do a will.

And this is not a lie. This is the actual number one, procrastination. 43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

You're going to die. You probably ought to work on it. Number two, perfectionism. Writing a will involves a few big decisions. Just do the best you can. You're not going to get it right.

And by the way, um, someone's going to be unhappy. Just plan on it. It's kind of part of the thing. Thinking you need a certain amount of assets to do a will.

No, you need a will. If you're 18 years old, you need a will. If you don't have a bunch of assets, it's not a big deal.

But you don't want the government deciding who who takes care of your kids. So, you need to name a guardian, and you need to do that in a will. Hello. Let the government figure out anything. That's a bad idea.

>> Track record's not great there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Number four, a belief that

everything automatically goes to your family. No, it doesn't. Most of it goes to the lawyers.

If you don't do a will, that's not how that works. And by the way, again, some judge in probate is going to decide this. No, you need to write it out and tell people what it is. Uncertainty about the process. Most people don't know where to start. Well, we can help.

Go to ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz.

It's a free quiz. ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz.

And uh with that, you'll get 25% off at Mama Bear Legal Forms to do a quick online will if you've got a simple estate. Uh it's an easy way to do it.

You can do it in one evening. You'll have it completely knocked out and you'll go, "Why didn't I do that sooner? Gosh, that wasn't even that hard." >> Well, the other stuff is people forget about stuff like, okay, you um you're in a coma.

Who gets to make your medical decisions?

You need a healthcare power of attorney. It's part of a standard will kit. Um, it's one page, but it sure does make everything easier. And you don't have to go before a judge to get permission to treat your husband. Hello.

>> The last thing you want during that time, >> medical power of attorney, >> financial power of attorney, >> financial power of attorney. Something happens and and you know, they need to be able to move some money around so that you can get your bills paid. Hello.

>> So, all these things and again, they're not it's not complicated. You just got to bother to do it. >> Doesn't increase your chances of dying either. Studies show.

>> Yeah. And studies show that you're going to die. That that's detail. We know that's happening. So, you're not getting out of this life. Dalen's in San Antonio. Hi, Dalen. How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, so my question is kind of a two-parter. It's It has to do with combining finances with my spouse as well as uh for our ultimate goal of paying off our house sooner.

>> Okay.

So, I'm guessing I guess the number one thing is um she and I both contribute to

um paying on things that I pay the mortgage and she pays some of the bills and things like that, but we currently have two separate bank accounts. So, I'm not but um we haven't taken the leap of having a joint bank account, but I'm trying to just >> don't really have an answer to that other than um I guess just

the idea of it feels like it's maybe a lack of

maybe it's a lack of control thing. I don't know. >> Yeah. Well, here's the control factor.

When the two of you put all your money in one account and the two of you before the month begins sit down with your every dollar budget and the two of you have a vote about where the money's going to go and you lay out where the money's going to go before the month begins and you both agree to that then

the control is if somebody doesn't do what they agreed they're a liar. They broke a contract. >> Yes, sir. >> And so you've got pure communication right now. You got halfb butt communication because you halfb butt know what's going on and uh but you got pure communication

because it's all laid out on the front end and the two of you together. And here's the actual result. Okay, when we

surveyed the general public, less than

50% of the general public down in the 40

percentile range combine their assets

with their spouse, combine their incomes with their spouse. When we surveyed 10,167 millionaires, 83% combined

their income and their assets with their spouse. And so the result is you have a higher a much higher probability of building wealth and accomplishing your financial goals when you're actually working together instead of acting like your roommates.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's data. That's not a feeling. It's

a fact.

So that's important. And the reason is pretty simple because you get much more efficient use of the money pointed toward a shared goal that we both have agreed to. By the way, the quality of the communication increases in your marriage. Your relationship increases and the quality of your marriage increases overall because you're forcing each other to agree on our fears and our dreams and we're in alignment on those things.

It's a big deal, isn't it, George? >> Yeah. Well, and the other thing it it hides things that are just going to cause resentment later on down the line or spending issues.

She knows what's going on. I know what's going on. And that has allowed us to exponentially build wealth because none of us are sitting here, you know, whittling away our money that we've worked so hard for. >> It controls how many purses Sharon buys and how many guns I buy.

>> Copy. Yes, sir.

The question is which one costs more?

>> Ah, there's the question. That's I'm just telling you. >> I know. I'm curious. A pistol cost two purses, George. I'll just tell you. I know. I know what the tradeout is. >> That's called Dave math right there. So, Dalon, have you guys combined uh in other ways? Is she on the mortgage? Is she on the deed?

>> Uh, yes, sir. She is on the mortgage kind of how it's been. Well, so kind of

how it's been going. Um, I've been paying I've been paying the mortgage and she has been taking care of some of the utilities, but her main the main thing is that she's she does have student loan debt. So, um, who makes more money?

>> Encouraged her to >> um, currently I believe I do.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, what do you make?

>> I just I make about um 84,500 a year.

>> What do you think she makes?

Uh well, so she hers varies, but she's a

she's a she's a she's a therapist and so she makes based upon patients. So it can vary between 800 to 3,500 a paycheck. It

just depends.

>> But I mean like when you're doing your taxes for a year, what's the lady make?

>> I want to say it's I want to say at best hopefully probably about or 84 to 85. Uh >> okay. So, you got $150 $160,000 income.

That's the point. Okay.

>> And um how long y'all been married?

>> Uh be two years in October.

>> Who's the more detailed nerd in the bunch? You or her? You?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Me, too. At my house. I'm the nerd at my house. And that makes her We call them nerds and free spirits. Who's the nerd? Who's the free spirit? My wife is the free spirit. Who's the spender and who's the saver?

I'm the saver. >> Okay. And she's the spender. Okay. So, she's a free spirit spender and you're a

saving nerd. All right. Now, here's what's going to end up happening when you combine. She's going to feel

controlled at first by this whole process because she likes to be un uh uh she doesn't like being

having a harness on her. Okay. But she's going to learn that we're not controlling the spending, but in instead what we're doing is designating the spending. So she gets to basically my daughter Rachel is like your wife. She's a a a free spirit spender. Okay. And

Rachel finally when she and Winston started doing the budget and they're early in their marriage, she determined that the budget is not a restriction on her spending. It's permission to spend.

Because now whatever's in a category that is spending for your wife, she can do without any guilt or worry of retribution from you because you've agreed about it before the month begins.

>> It actually sets her free to do what she

does. Now, I'm a nerd spender, so I'm a little different. So, I I plan out my

spending and that way I know I'm being responsible about it. So, that helps.

And my wife is wants to plan out our saving cuz she's a saver. So, you get to

do your saving, you get to do your spending, everybody gets a vote. All of this is reflected in our plan, and she's

going to help you have fun, and you're going to help her retire and not have to eat dog food.

>> It's a good team right there. >> Yeah. And it's it that you need each other. If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary.

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David is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, David. How can we help?

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure.

>> Um, so I'm 29 and my wife is 27. Um,

we're both self-employed and our only debt is our mortgage and it's about 30% of our gross income.

Um, it's I mean it's been doable but it's felt a little bit tight at certain times especially after our investing and newborn expenses.

Um, so my question is is it or would it

be smart to sell our current home and invest all of that net profit into a Roth retirement and then just start over in a small starter home? So, um, in

doing so, we'd have 160,000 in Roth

funds at our age, and without ever contributing, we'd have about

>> Your your phone's breaking up.

>> Honey, your phone's breaking up. I have no idea what you said. You saidund and something 100. What' you say 100? How much going into into into retirement?

>> We'd have about 165,000 in Roth funds.

>> Okay. No, it's not Roth. You can't put it all in a Roth. The only thing you can put in a Roth is a rollover from a retirement. You can't put home equity all in a Roth in one year. You can put $8,000 in in a year, >> but that's the most you could do. >> Well, we uh we have Roth 401k, so I

could do around 20,000 each of us because we're both self-employed and including your Roth IAS.

>> Okay. You can Yeah, you can move it that way, but you can't just move 150 from your house into a Roth. You'd have to do through the some of those vehicles. Why is your business not growing?

>> I mean, it's growing. Um, we started out

about a 100 on average.

>> Man, your phone is sucks.

>> Try again. >> It's an iPhone 10. Um, so we started

out.

>> I'm done. We tried. >> All right. We tried. Open phones at 88 8255225.

If your business sir is increasing in

profitability and increasing in revenue, you can keep the house and you should keep the house. Um, but I I think the

problem is not the house and the problem is not the Roth IAS. The problem is you're not making enough out of your business. So, you guys need to make some career decisions. Either this business needs to get up, get running, and increase your income using that or you need to consider if this business is really viable or not. That's what you're looking at. James is in Denver. Hey,

James. What's up? >> Hi. How you doing today?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, uh I was hoping that you could guide me in the right direction. I am uh

contemplating retiring early and I'm quite young for what I was born and raised to realize that it's retired. I just turned 38 years old.

>> Okay. Um Okay. What do you mean by retire?

not uh not grind a a day job every day

that I'm worried about.

>> Okay. So, you want to sit on your butt for 40 years?

>> Uh I basically sit on my butt, maybe hike, maybe golf, maybe get out to work.

>> Dave does a lot of that. Yeah, I still work. Um

I I uh Okay, there's two questions here

that are built into this issue. Question number one is uh the philosophy of that

and question number two is the math of that. Can you afford to do it?

>> How much money do you have invested and saved?

>> Um right now I have about three and a half million in the market.

>> Okay. Then you can retire >> couple houses and >> you got you got enough. You've done great. Congratulations. Now what were you doing for a living?

I was doing technology sales and done quite well at the >> Yeah, you've done fabulously. Congratulations. Very proud of you.

That's excellent. So, definitely mathwise, I mean, I'm sure you can live on 300 grand a year.

>> Hello. >> Sure. >> I'm sorry.

>> No, I said sure. Absolutely.

>> Okay. Then, you know, three and a half million at 10%'s going to produce that.

At 8% it's going to produce that. And that's not counting your rental houses.

So yeah, you'd math. So the math question is yes, you can retire. Um I will tell you having met with wealthy people and people who were successful as

as successful or more successful than you at an early age, the ones that attempted to do nothing have not had a high quality life.

Golf and hiking just don't do it, man.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm after a few months of this, I'm starting to get that that uh >> Well, I can tell you the pattern. >> You've already done it. >> It It goes from >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Have you already quit?

>> No.

Job as a, you know,

>> do we have any phones that work on this planet? >> How is technology not improved over the last 30 years? Are you doing this, Dave?

>> Yeah, I don't know. So, okay. Anyway, the the answer to your question is yes.

Mathematically, you can retire and um

philosophically you can control how much you work and you can increase the number of hikes and the number of rounds of golf. But I tell I will tell you that

you will have a much higher quality life

and your wife will be happier with you if you are doing something.

Even if you start your own business and you work it five hours a day or four hours a day average you work it, you know, some days you work it three days a week. Some I've got a friend that um has a house in uh uh Aspen and he has a

house in uh the mountains in North Carolina and he goes back and forth between those and he works from his computer running a business. uh but he

doesn't work but you know a couple hours a day three or four hours a day but he's still engaged still being creative still

having strategic thought still you know doing something and um so you know in my

case I love what I do so I have no desire to walk away from it and I intend to do this until I don't make sense anymore um and then they will take me off the air but um and there's all kinds of plans behind my back to make sure that that happens but um but I mean I don't have any reason to not come down here because it's been I mean I could have quit at 38. I was done financially.

>> Yeah, the math >> financially financially I was done at 38 easy probably before that. And so um but

the uh but I this is God's call on my life. And so I would I get great joy from it. It would be ridiculous to not be engaged and put your hand to a plow that causes things to grow. And so that's what I want for you.

you've obviously got high capacity and it would be a shame for the high capacity to be on the end of a fishing pole and so as your only thing you do with your life. So I just I don't recommend that for you and I don't find retirement in the Bible by the way. Um I don't think it's evil if you do. I don't think I don't think you're doing anything wrong.

I don't think it's immoral. But uh and it may be that just in biblical times people had to work because they were always hungry. But um but it it could be that and we may be you know have advanced our finances beyond that at the in at this stage.

making a it's not a moral statement.

It's a matter of the way we seem to be wired as humans. We do better if we've got our hand to something. >> Exactly. As I've looked into the the this is the fire movement. Financially independent retire early. And this is the exact pattern I've seen. It's short-term fund. Woo. I don't work for the man anymore. And that lasts for two weeks or a month. Then it leads into boredom which leads into depression which leads into a search for purpose again which then leads to the thing you should have been doing all along. Yeah.

>> That's what people do. They spin up a new business that fires them up. And I think that's what our friend here needs to do is go find the thing that actually gets them excited to go to work and then it's a shift. >> Wrote a wonderful book I recommend to you called Halime.

uh, you have a midlife crisis. If all you do is stay, if you're a 60-year-old and you're still in acquisition mode, you know, you're you're you're going to fall into midlife crisis. And so, um, be

careful with that. Um, and

you know, I just I I again, you're right, the FIRE movement has failed miserably in terms of quality of life.

And so this idea that I'm financially independent, independent from what? You still have human beings you're interacting with and they're out there.

They're called life. And you're going to have to still be a nice person, and you're still going to have to, you know, do, you know, but here's the thing. If you have high capacity, there's stuff God needs you to do on the planet. do something of size, do something of scale, and I don't care what it is, >> but now you can do it on your terms, and that's the beautiful part. >> Yeah, that that's how I would go at it.

So, cool stuff.

>> Thanks for calling in.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

And Alex is Alexis rather is with us in Miami. Hi Alexis. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Um I'm amazing. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh well. So, um I'm calling you today because I love uh all the advice, financial advice, and even kind of a spiritual advice that you give your listeners. Um and I've kind of stumbled upon um a big chunk of change. And before I make any rash decisions, I'd love to talk to you about it first.

>> What kind of stumbling and what kind of chunk of change? >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. So, um, a few months ago, my husband tried to be, um, a superstar husband, and he

bought me a fancy car. Um, it was a 2025

black badge, um, all black, red interior Rolls-Royce, and he bought it for me in hopes that I would be, you know, having having fun in like a mom car. But, um,

you know, I don't want to be, you know, ungrateful, but it's not the color I asked for. It's not the style of car I asked for. Um, >> what were your demands originally?

>> I wanted a drop top Bentley.

>> Oh, >> I wanted I wanted to feel the wind in my hair. I wanted to be able to like, you know, my girls are coming over. We just like hop in my car and then we just skirt off. I don't like having to like remove car seats. >> Sometimes I get my wife's Starbucks order wrong. So, I totally relate to this. Yeah, >> I know. I know. I knew you guys would understand. >> Yeah. >> So, anyway, um, so Stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop. I can't breathe. Um, >> okay. >> The, uh, household income is what?

>> Well, my husband does crypto, so there's some months where we make millions of dollars and then some months where we don't make anything. You know, it's just all about how my husband strategizes his time, but he does what he can, you know, when you punk us.

>> Oh my god. No, you can look me up. Like, I'm giving you my birth name and everything. No, I'm not punking you.

This is real life.

you called me about a $600,000 car and your husband's job is crypto and these are obviously none of the things we talk about on this show. So we we would never recommend any of this but um >> No, no, that's why I was hesitant to, you know, be live on air about it. But what I'm saying is, you know, I I not in love with this car and I'm looking to sell it and we have an offer for it and I don't >> Oh, well then sell it.

>> Okay. And then what do I do with the money? Just like now have money with >> I don't know. Is it not your husband's money too?

>> No, it is. But, you know, it was a gift to me. So, now I'm able to like reinvest it or, you know, do something with it that's a little bit more important than just like have it sitting in my driveway. >> I thought you were going to get a drop top Bentley.

>> I mean, I now I don't even care about a fancy car at all. I just would like to do something a little bit more interesting than have it sit in my driveway.

>> I mean, time has gone by and now I'm like, you know, a little bit more mature and, you know, things like that aren't interesting to me. You know, having having something like that in my driveway is a liability. and you know if I I'm been told to put my money in this way and then you know I'm I'm being pulled in many directions of what I should do with a >> Sounds like if you asked your husband he'd want to invest it in crypto.

>> Yeah, but I don't want to do that. >> Why? >> I don't understand it. I don't understand it. So I don't want to do it. He can do what he wants and you know this is something that was gifted to me and I want to make a little um you know more thoughtout decision with it.

>> Okay. Well honey I mean you just you're

going to have to pick you out something you want to do with it. Um, there's so much broken about this whole process that I don't know where to begin to help you fix it. Um, number one process should be that two grown-ups living

together um don't have uh don't buy

$600,000 cars without the other one being involved in the decision. For that matter, they don't buy $6,000 cars without the other one being made in the decision. And number two, um, two

grown-ups living together share their assets, their liabilities, their incomes, their dreams, and their fears.

And so it's not like you have your own little private party account over here as a result of selling a 2025 Rolls-Royce. So that's that's not how it should work. So, I disagree with your premise and um so I I would coach you

guys to start working together and you know uh begin to invest in some real investments, not just crypto and um and

both of you uh for that matter. And uh

otherwise your life is just going to continue to be extremely volatile. And if volatility is purchasing a 2025

Rolls-Royce that is the wrong interior color and then turning around and selling it. If that's volatility, that's that's volatility. And that's there's a lot of chaos around this whole process.

And none of this is going to lead to peace in your home, peace in your future, calmness. Uh you guys are just

run around 63 different directions. Life in the fast lane should be your theme song. So, um, >> yeah, we need some shared goals, shared vision. And so far, your shared goals have been, let's get rich quick and have a bunch of vanity, which is fun, but you found out very quickly it didn't last the test of time, >> I guess, >> when you reassess.

I'm not sure how long the time frame was. It feels like it was two weeks, but um that's a fairly quick short period of time to grow up, but um it apparently worked. I don't know. So, there we go.

Hayden is with us in Minnesota. Hi, Hayden.

>> I'm well. How are you? I'm better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I am 24 and I would like to

purchase an engagement ring.

>> Yay. >> Go along with that. >> That's awesome. You got some money saved. >> Thank you. >> I do. >> When you go pop the question.

>> Um, hopefully soon. Probably within a month or so once I get all this stuff squared away. >> Yeah. I got to have a plan, man. I like it. So, what do you make a year?

Um, last year I made 85 and this year will be about 85.90.

>> Okay. And how much you got saved for the ring?

>> Um, in a high yield account right now I have about 40. >> Okay. >> A 401k from an employer about 10.

>> But I mean in that four is that the 40 is not allocated to the ring.

>> No, no, no. >> Okay. How much you got to save for the ring?

>> Well, so that's where I kind of want to figure out my question to you is how much I should spend on that ring. One month's income >> goal.

>> Okay. >> Jewelry store will tell you three months.

>> Do you think so? I would like to We've had a kind of the goal to go on a vacation. Neither of us have ever been out of the country. >> Well, that' be like the honeymoon, right?

>> Kind of. Yeah, pretty much. Um, so that

encompassing with the ring, would you say that that changes things?

>> No, I just I just That's different.

>> What I would spend on the ring is 10 grand or less.

Okay. >> And what I spent on the trip is what I spent on the trip. And you got the money to do both.

>> Okay. Right. >> Get her something nice. >> There is no correlation between the size of the ring and the probability of the marriage being a success.

>> Except possibly an inverse correlation, meaning the larger the ring, the the better the chance it fails. But most high quality marriages are not based on the size of the ring. In other words, so um lots of people get married with something out of the bubble gum machine.

Um Sharon Ramsay married me with a point. O00 whatever chip that you could

barely see and uh now she wears a headlight. So >> there's no decimal points in that one.

>> So it's not, you know, she does whatever she wants now, right? But that's, you know, 43 years of putting up with me.

You get a ring. So that's it. And you get a ring and you know there. So anyway, that you the the starter ring is fine. 10 grand and you've saved the money to do it. Um, shop around, learn a

little bit about diamonds. They're not an investment. That's the biggest lie ever. I bought a bunch of them. None of them have ever gone up. They don't go up in value. The only value is her smile.

That's it. That's the only thing it gives me of value. The rest of it's just it's in the box. It's >> Figure out her taste, figure out the budget, and then just go for it.

>> Diamonds are forever. Diamonds are a girl's best friend. Those are jewelry marketing lines. >> You need better friends.

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Christopher is in Denver. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. Glad to be here.

>> Good. How can we help?

Um, so I'm calling essentially because I

quickly accumulated um quite a bit of debt in about three months >> and at the same time um from gambling.

>> Oh, have you stopped gambling?

>> I have stopped. >> I have. Yes.

>> What were you betting on?

>> Um online crypto casinos like Blackjack

for the most part. >> Yeah. And how much debt did you build up?

>> Um built up close to 40 37

>> $37,000 in three months from gambling.

Okay. >> Right. >> On credit cards. >> Total losses were about triple that. But uh yes, all credit cards. Yep.

>> Okay. Your losses were triple that.

>> Yeah, total. That was the 37 was just the debt.

>> And the you have money before and the 60,000 was savings you went through.

>> Yeah. savings portfolio, crypto holdings. Um, >> so I'm curious why it took $100,000 for you to figure out this was a stupid idea.

>> You know, I really thought I was going to get it back, >> um, but that's how it goes, man.

>> Says every gambling addict. Yeah. So, uh, >> exactly. >> How old are How old are you?

>> 27. >> What's your household income, sir?

>> Um, well, I'm self-employed. I've been running a company for a little over 5 years, so it varies dramatically, but like last year was 88.

>> You made $88,000 last year. What do you think you're going to make this year?

>> Um, probably 115.

>> Okay, that's good. Very good. Good for you. Okay. Are you single?

>> I am. >> Okay. And and your question is what then, sir?

Well, when I went through this partially because of my self-employment status, um I mean, my initial once I decided I'd had enough and it was time to quit. Um my initial thought was I should be consolidating this somehow because you know the 25 28% whatever it is on these cards is unnecessary is what it felt like I should I should put into a consolidation loan. Um and I went to do that to probably 14 banks or whatever. I tried everywhere and no one would give it to me partially because of recent behavior and like how quickly it came up um and credit utilization.

>> You're what's known as a bad credit risk because you've been doing stupid stuff. Yeah, that makes sense. >> I wouldn't argue with them. Yeah, >> that's what makes that makes sense.

Yeah.

Um, so the next place that a lot of them

tried to push me was to debt relief programs like you went where no new no

new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no you're going to

the only way a debt relief program works is if you quit paying everyone >> and you go into default and then they negotiate lower rates to re finally get the credit card company repaid you don't need to do that you make $ 105,000 you're single you need $37,000 you need to start paying $3,000 $3,000 to $4,000

a month on these credit cards and make them go away. Interest rate becomes irrelevant when you pay this off in one year.

>> Yeah, that's that's a good point.

Definitely. >> So, that's what we're going to do. We're going to work like we like our life depended on it. We're not going to do anything except work for the next year.

We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. And we're going to clean up these credit cards. List the credit cards smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And um how many cards are

involved?

>> Five. Almost four. I've almost gotten rid of the uh the smallest one, but five total. >> Okay. So, four cards on 37,000. So,

you're averaging about 8 or 9,000 bucks a piece, right?

>> Yeah. Average, I suppose. They are.

>> Who are they with? Who are they with?

>> Chase is the biggest one. Um got about 18 on it. >> Mhm. Okay. call Chase and tell them you

talked to your financial advisor who

said to close down the account and never

do business with Chase again if they don't lower the interest rate that we're going to move the we're going to move the balance to somebody else to a lower rate if you don't lower my rate today.

They'll drop it. >> Cool. Okay. >> And do that with every one of them. They'll drop it. That'll help a little, but interest rates not your problem.

It's behavior shift. You're going to go from an intense gambler to an int intense debt repayment guy.

>> Yeah. >> Do you have any other debt?

>> I do. Um I got a car that's about 22 on

it and student loans for 16.

>> Okay. Well, just put all those in that same list then. Let's just keep going. It's going to take two years then.

>> Yeah. To to get it all. That would be Yeah, that'd be great. I think if if it was done in two, I'd be a happy guy. >> Yeah. >> Are you done with crypto?

Yeah, I um I've I've stopped completely since. Um and I've had other addictive

struggles in the past and and was able to sort of uh treat this one the same way that uh you know got a good community around me. >> So, okay. Well, and and in a sense, um

we're going to use the positive attributes of an addict, which would be focus um and um singular focus. Uh and we're going to use that on this debt. Cool.

>> You get after it. Don't look up until it's gone. Kill it and then make it a permanent line in the sand that we never go back for anything. And obviously,

um, gambling is not a method of wealth building. We figured that out, too, didn't we? Went through 100 grand in just a few months >> and ending up with a net of $37,000 worth of debt. It's the Hey, I told I was on a podcast this morning as a guest and the guy was asking me what was going on with sports betting. I said, I think it we're seeing it almost every about

about one about twice a week we're seeing a call right now where people's lives have been ruined by FanDuel.

>> Yeah. >> And ruined by MGM Gold or whatever cuz

uh because they're they're out of control. >> The advertising is relentless. You can't go anywhere without getting this. >> The reason is they make so stinking much money. Where do you think they got the money to buy all that advertising? From the losers. That's where they got the money, which is everyone that plays it, right? And so, um, that's they end up losing and it's a it's mythology, but it's very addictive.

>> Well, it's become socialized to where it's no big deal because we're all watching the game. It's not I'm not at a casino. >> It's not fun to watch the game unless I got something on it. Yeah, it is. It's a lot more fun. By the way, >> it's a game. I just need to remind you that >> I didn't know that online crypto casinos. That's a three words that should never go together. That's frightening. That's got to be some kind of seventh circle of hell.

Dante, he's even shaking in his boots.

>> Man, >> what are your demands?

>> Tristan's in Florida. Hey, Tristan.

What's up? >> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I own and operate a photography business. Um, my soon to be wife is

planning on resigning from her 9 toive job and uh starting to work with me full-time. Um, since I'm a one I've been

up to this point a oneman show, um, I have no idea how to structure my finances um to pay her to or at least have her um

income come through um the business as well. >> If it's her wife, it doesn't matter,

>> right? >> You don't even need an income through the business. The business makes a profit. Y'all take the profit home and eat.

>> Okay. But as far as like um >> whether you get six and she gets four, it's just 10 ending up in that same checking account, right?

>> Correct.

>> So you got a business checking account already? >> Yes. >> Okay. And you have your personal and you've been transferring money over to pay yourself. >> Yeah, exactly. Whenever I need money, I just transfer it over, but I try to keep my expenses very low. >> Same thing.

>> Okay. >> Will she be increasing the revenue of the business? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's the whole >> I hope so. I hope y'all make more if both of you are working there. Yeah.

>> And and so what what we need to do the first step is is for the keep everything completely separate. Run the business as if you're running it for someone else. Like George said, a separate checking account. He's exactly right.

>> Okay. >> And then you pay only business expenses with that account. And you only put money into that account that comes from the business. >> Right. >> Okay. And so the net that's in that account by definition is profit.

>> Okay? >> If revenue goes in, expenses go out, what's left is profit.

>> That's the definition from an accounting standpoint. Obviously, you need a good set of books, too. Then I would leave some in the business for retained earnings, the equivalent of an emergency fund in business. We need a little pad in there.

And then the rest of it comes home and that's profit. And you can do that just as a monthly decision. How much we're going to bring home out of there. We made this much profit.

We're going to leave a little in the business for retained earnings. We're going to bring the rest of it home.

You need to hold a fourth of that out for taxes. 25% of it out for taxes in a

separate account so you can pay your quarterly estimates and then take the rest of it home. And that's the easiest way to do it. The next step is you could really start making some serious money. You can start paying actual salaries out. But it's not necessary to do that.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Well, if you've never been able to visit the lobby of Ramsey Solutions and watch us do this show on the glass, uh, which we do from 1 to 4 Monday through Friday, um, you're going to get a special treat. We're going to take the show on the road and let you come and watch us do a show. And better than that, you will be asking the questions from the audience on a live mic. That's fun.

If you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in, you're going to see them. They're going to be in the room. Now's your chance.

going on tour. Experience live Q&A, raw confessions, crowd debates, and a local debtree scream. It's all happening live.

The first one will be September the 30th in Chicago. Rachel, Ken, and George

will gonna be doing this show live on stage with an audience of about 300 folks. Tickets are a whole $39.

Oo, super expensive. >> I think the Uber to the venue is going to cost you more. >> Uh, for sure. >> That's an amazing price. >> Yeah. In Chicago, for sure. Yeah. So, anyway, you get to come and hang out, but the problem with them being $39 is they're going to be gone in about 20 minutes. So, if you want tickets, you probably ought to go buy them like quickly.

>> Intimate experience. 300 seats in each venue. And so, they're going to go fast.

And it's going to be a blast to go on the road and be amongst the people.

>> Amongst the folks, Orlando, October the second. We're doing two this fall, Chicago and Orlando. September 30 and October 2. And in Orlando will be Jade,

John, and George. You're doing both of them. >> I Someone had to chaperone John and so they sent me out there with them just to make sure. Someone had to chaperone Ken on the other one. So there you go. Yeah, we got to take care of We got to send a grown-up. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> So, I'll be headed straight from Chicago to Orlando. It's going to be a fun time.

And uh this is this is the kind of event that you're It's going to be hard to experience through radio or video. You You want to be in the room for this kind of experience. And if you haven't experienced it live, now's your chance cuz we've never done something like this. >> Never have. First time.

>> So, uh Ramsey Show live Chicago September 30. Rachel, Ken, George, Jay, John, and George Orlando, October 2nd.

Uh, click the link in the show notes if you're on the podcast or YouTube. Any otherwise, go to ramseyolutions.comvents.

Jenny's in Idaho. Hi, Jenny. How are you? >> Hi. Hi, Dave. I'm good, thank you.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> I'm 61 years old, uh, newly single. I live in Lington

housing.

I have 22,000 left over from the sale of my house

in Oregon and

I don't know what to do. I'm

>> newly single. Divorced.

>> Sorry, what did you say? >> You said newly single. Are you divorced?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. What do you do for a living?

I work at a training center. I'm a cashier, but I only get about 25 hours a week.

>> Okay. So, what are we doing to get a better job? That one sucks

>> there. Um,

because of my bad knees, I

I have a I have a bunch of stuff in a storage unit that needs to be sold.

>> That one what I asked I asked what you're doing to get a better job. The job you have sucks.

>> Nothing right now. >> Okay. >> You're a cashier and you can't stand >> and you got 20 and you got 25 hours a week. So, we need to do we need a new job. Yes, sir. That's true. >> You're starving to death.

>> Uh, not technically because I still have the 22. >> Technically, but I mean finan mathematically you don't have any money is my point.

>> That is correct. >> And the reason is is you don't have much income. So, we've got to work on your career, kiddo.

>> Yeah. And I have no retirement. Zero.

>> Well, we've got to work on your career, kiddo.

You got 22,000 in the bank and you're you're living in a rental property and you sold your house. You gone through a divorce. >> Okay. And you're scared, which is understandable. >> Okay. >> Not to mention stressed.

>> Yeah. Stressed and scared. Now, that's fair. Okay. But let let's just pretend for a second if we could wave a wand.

And we don't have a wand and we're not going to do it. I know. >> But let's pretend for a second.

>> Let's say you started making $50,000 a year.

I've never made 50,000 a year.

>> I said, let's pretend.

>> Okay, >> go with me on the ride, girl. All right, here we go. You're making $50,000 a year. You have $4,000 a month coming in.

You're 61. You have $22,000 in the bank.

All of the sudden, everything changes.

My point of this pretend ride is that

uh you your problem is an income problem. >> Yes. And so when I fix the income problem in our pretend ride or our dream here for a second, all the stress and the fear starts to go away because it's all really revolves and goes back to that one thing and and that's our biggest deal here. So have you got any uh you got some bad knees? Okay. Do you have a degree in anything?

>> No, sir. >> What's the most you've ever made?

>> 36,000. >> Cool. What were you doing? I was working

at a municipal airport as a custodian

working for the city. >> Cool. How long ago was that?

>> Two years. >> Two and a half years. >> Not bad at all. Okay.

>> Well, >> could you still do that kind of work physically?

>> No, sir. >> The knees have gone, huh?

>> Amen. Yep. >> Okay. All right. cuz I was about to put you into the maid service business cuz you can make $25 to $50 an hour cleaning people's houses, but that's probably not going to work here. Okay.

>> No. No. >> So, this is how I want us to be. This is how I want us to be thinking. I want to be thinking about what we can do that gets Jenny's income rocking. And it

might be a self-employed thing. It because that way you can kind of control it >> rather than just looking for a jo O. A 61y old bad knees looking for a job is tough. Yes. >> Okay. But if we dream up something that you could physically do, that'd be pretty cool. Okay. Uh what what's what's another good job you've had in the past?

>> I've been a caregiver. I've been a cook.

>> Oh, those are great.

>> I I can't do caregiving anymore, though, because of my knees and my back. Yeah.

>> You could cook.

>> Yes, sir. I can cook. >> Okay, there we go. Let's Let's talk about that a minute. I don't know. I'm just I'm just dreaming with you here because I do know that 25 hours a week as a cashier is not our plan. It's not going to get us where we need to go. So, we something's got to change. You agree with me on that?

>> Absolutely. >> All right, kiddo. All right. So, I think you can do this. We've just got to start um you know I want to stick my head up through the fog of the fear and start looking for the sunshine again >> and start aiming at something. That's where I'm trying to go with this conversation. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> And cuz I think I think you still got stuff you can do and I don't know exactly what it is but I'm going to go figure out something that I start making$25 $30 an hour and I'm able to do 40 or 50 hours a week and I'm able to do it with your back and your knees. And that's possible. Well, there's things you can do with your mind and with your cooking. Uh, it doesn't always have to be manual labor. Right.

>> Right. Okay. >> I love the upcycle.

>> I've got a bunch of furniture that needs to be uh >> sold.

It's fixed and sold. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You ever been on eBay?

>> I You ever been on Facebook Marketplace?

>> I am technically challenged.

>> You ever been on Facebook Marketplace?

>> Could someone help you get a little Facebook Marketplace account set up? Any grandkids around? >> Take some iPhone pictures and list it.

>> Get your grandkids to show you how to set up an eBay store and a Facebook marketplace store. Let's start buying stuff at garage sales and reselling it.

>> I'd love that, but I already have enough stuff here to sell. >> Well, go ahead and sell. Let's start with that stuff. You got a good inventory to get started. >> Let's get a Facebook marketplace up and use that to learn sell the crap off and get that storage unit cleaned out. And then you can go buy a chair for $2 at a garage sale and sell it for $50 on eBay.

Okay. >> And you can make $100,000 a year screwing around with that.

Well, >> this is businesses around this.

>> I'm now I'm excited, Jenny. This is going to be great.

>> But you're going to have to get somebody to teach you this technical stuff. But hey, I'm I'm 65 and I've learned enough of it to get through it. I can I mean I there is one guy that works here that fixes all the stuff I break. But other than that, I mean, you can learn how to do it. You can do it. Hey, hang on. And I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, uh, Proximity Principle,

which will help you with your career idea. But I think you need to I think you need to start buying and selling stuff on eBay and Facebook Marketplace.

>> Try that out on the side. >> Yeah. There was a guy one year that made what was it? He made $800,000 only reselling golf clubs. Wow. He would buy

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Spencer in Texas. I have my $1,000 emergency fund and my three months of expenses already saved. I'm planning to get engaged soon and have a question. Is that money I made and contributed pre-marriage our $1,000 and three months of expenses or should I take out half of what I contributed and put it towards a joint investment account and have her slowly rebuild the other half of the emergency fund?

This way it won't feel like she's marrying into financial security and all the sacrifice and dedication I made before we got married.

and the three months of expenses on top of that. So he has both. He's got he's got a fully funded emergency fund. He's saying, "Should I take out half and make her build it so that she doesn't feel like she's riding a gravy train?" >> Let me help you, son. That ain't a gravy train.

It's just an umbrella.

It's not like you're some prize.

Oh my gosh.

>> This is wild. Uh, no. Don't do not do

that at all. Unless you want to start off your marriage with >> Don't start off your marriage trying to be her parent. Really dumb idea.

Yeah, I'm going to make her learn her little lesson, the little lady. Oh my god, you arrogant. No way, dude. She's

going to smack you left away from Sunday. This ain't going to work.

>> It sounds like you're bitter for some reason cuz you're saying, "I made all the sacrifice and dedication." I don't know what she's bringing into this. Maybe she's got some debt. Maybe she hasn't been as disciplined with money as you have. But this is a recipe for disaster if you approach. >> You got you got some pre-marriage counseling to do, honey. And uh I hope somebody talks straight to you in that process because the words you're using are not going to help you relationally.

You're going to struggle and you're going to struggle fast if she's got a backbone. That is so um Yeah,

I'm going >> I'd love to see this conversation play out though. >> Uh no. Yeah. Just for the entertainment factor. >> Entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. But not not because it's going to be successful. No. successful is honey,

you really hadn't done much yet. So, don't be patting yourself on the back so hard you'll you'll twist your elbow. The the second thing is is you don't want to use language on your uh spouse ever, especially when you're just about to get married that sounds like a parent instead of a husband. A husband is a teammate, not a parent. And uh you're

you're not there to teach her little you teach the little lady lessons. That's not your role. Uh if you think it is, you're about to have a long freaking life. And so, um, y'all got some work.

You got some work to do on all this. >> Yeah. I would not get engaged until you're actually comfortable combining your entire life instead of dangling this as some sort of punishment and thing to be earned. >> Yeah. How how about it's your job to serve your spouse.

Oh, that'd be different.

H >> cuz if you're going, "Well, she's got to put in 50% and I got to put in that's going to be just tit fortat scoreboard keeping." That's an exhausting way to live. >> Yeah. And um your job is to serve each other.

So that's how this works. We're there for each other. We're not there to

um keep score. Man, scary.

Austin Witchah Tech, Kansas. Hi, Austin.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up,

>> Bill? Longtime listener. Finally jumped on the plan here in the last month or two. um looking in a year should have all my consumer debts paid off and another probably four months after that have my emergency fund saved up. Uh my question

is when it gets to the part of saving a down payment for a house um we currently own a home um have a mortgage on it and

our five-year plan would to be to find something a little bigger. So would you recommend I mean could we count our equity as part of a down payment and should we still save up a down payment or move on to four five and six and pay extra towards the house or how would you go about that? >> Well I mean you're going to sell the house right?

>> Correct. Yes. >> Yeah. So then you've got the equity in your hand and that is the down payment.

So sure of course that counts to the down payment. Um, and if you want to add, if you want more than the equity to put down on the next house and you had some savings built up, too, I guess that would be ideal, wouldn't it?

>> Yes. >> What's the house worth? What what equity how much equity have you got now?

>> So, we're we owe about 94 on it and it's worth around 140 150.

>> Okay. So, you got like 50 grand. And how long before you do this deal?

Uh, I mean, we're we're obviously not looking until we get their emergency fund and all that saved up. So, it's it's within the five-year plan, but of course, it's finding the right >> Okay. So, 5 years from now, maybe you owe 75 and it's worth 200.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Which would then mean that you I'm just making the numbers up, but I mean, then you'd have like, you know, 125 to put down and you might have saved up some money, too.

>> Okay. The other way to do it is just use the mortgage as a forest savings plan and just start plowing through that mortgage once you guys are debtree with the emergency fund >> and then you have all the equity. Maybe you pay it off before you buy the next one and you sell that one. You got all the cash from the proceeds minus the fees and you roll that into the next one. >> That'd be pretty cool.

>> Yep. Yep. That was that was definitely an idea. I didn't know if we should go more towards that route or putting it in savings and having it >> I'd pay the house down. I'm with George.

That's what I That's what I did personally. And so that's, you know, I do as I as I say. That's how I like it.

>> Aaron's in Davenport, Iowa. Hi Aaron.

What's up?

>> Hey. Um me and my family of six are looking to move to the border of South Sudan and Uganda as missionaries um in a few months. And we're trying to decide whether we sell the house or rent it.

>> How long will you be there?

>> Indefinitely. >> Sell it.

Okay.

>> Yeah. And then >> Yeah. And I I would put the money in I'd put the money in a mutual fund. What should we do with the money? >> I'd put it in some good mutual funds and just let it grow. >> And um I assume you've raised support for your missionary endeavor, right?

>> We're we're almost finished raising support. >> Okay. So the you won't need this money to eat.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. So I'm just I I would sell it. I don't want to be managing a rental property from Uganda. No, thank you.

That's a bad idea. >> We did have a a friend who was going to like manage it for >> That's really scary.

>> Okay. >> That's how you get the Harley oil changed in your living room.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> No, no. I I something where you don't

have to think about it because you're um you're entering with four kids, you're entering a completely different culture and um you you know you're going to be on the cutting edge doing missionary work and you need to be completely focused on that, not worried about the air conditioner that broke back home uh in Davenport, Iowa,

>> you know, let's just mutual funds don't you don't they don't have any maintenance.

Okay. >> And so I I'm trying to simplify your life so you can focus on ministry in other words.

>> Okay. Well, thank you. I I appreciate that. >> Yeah, that's what I would do in your situation. If I were in your situation, that's exactly what I'd do. Sell it, pop the money in mutual funds, and um then when you I if there is a point that this

um missionary uh is endeavor is over and

you come home, you got much more money than you started with cuz it's all sitting there in that investment building up. You take that big old chunk of money and you buy you a house wherever you're going to land when you come home. >> Think about that. If that money sat there for about seven years, it could double.

>> It will double. Yeah. >> So, that's a pretty good deal versus >> Well, unless it sat there 14 years, it would double twice. >> I like that plan.

>> Yeah. And so, I don't know how long they're going to be there, but um yeah, you said indefinitely. So, >> forever is a long time. >> Yep.

Going with that. >> But to that end, Dave, a lot of people go, "Well, I'm moving. Should I keep it as a rental?" >> No, that's what we're saying. >> A lot of people experience that, especially long distance.

Real estate can be a good investment when properly structured and properly managed, but it is a much higher hassle factor than mutual funds. And so, um,

no, I I >> You want to be an intentional real estate investor, not by default.

>> Exactly. Exactly. I want to say, okay, I've got a I got this pile of money. I'm getting ready to go on the mission field. Would I go buy a rental house or would I put the money in a mutual fund?

I'd go put the money in mutual fund, but and I love real estate, but but not in that situation. I don't

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Sarah is in Phoenix. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> I am blessed. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I'm not sure if I have a husband problem, my kid problem, or a selfish problem. Um, I am the bread winner in my

family. I have 19-year-old twins who are

going to a local community college on a

presidential scholarship. I feel like I have failed them because I was never able to save for their college. My

daughter wants to become a doctor. Um,

and she's saving every dime she's making

um for her dream. Um, and my son's

undecided at this point. Uh, so they both live at home and I pay all their living expenses. Of course, they pay when they go out or or whatever outside of that. Um, my problem is, well, besides I feel like I failed them, my husband, um, and I haven't been on the same page for many years. Um, you know, I I know what it takes to earn a dollar.

Um, and have worked two full-time jobs in recent years to get out of debt.

>> Did you say two full-time jobs?

>> Yes. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We were about $100,000 in debt. um

when I got laid off in 2011 due to my job getting outsourced. I'm in software development and that's when um a lot of jobs were getting outsourced uh including um mine. So um yeah, we piled

up that was daycare >> and you worked two jobs and got rid of the debt and so what's your question about him? I don't understand. Well, so

when I was pregnant with my kids, he hurt his back and >> three >> 19 years ago. Yes. Okay. And actually for the first probably seven years, he

literally was in severe pain and has had

multiple surgeries on his back. Um he's

been addicted to Oxy and all the other pain drugs. Um his last surgery was 201

17 maybe. Um in which was a game

changer. Uh he is now opiate free. Uh he

does smoke weed. Um can I say that?

Sorry. Um to manage the pain, but that's all he really does uh to manage the pain. Um and he just he he gets his

social security and he's happy with that. Um, and >> how old is he?

>> 65 right now.

>> 65.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And he's not worked he's not worked in 19 years.

>> Right.

>> Wow.

>> Right. >> But for the But since 2017, it was simply just because he didn't want to.

>> Right.

>> And so, >> well, I'm not denying he doesn't have back pain now. He does. And

>> yeah, welcome to being 65, but

>> um >> I have back pain, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, he's obviously been through a lot and and he's clear, but he's clear of the drugs and he's clear of that. So,

why do you think he has no ambition?

>> Because he gets his social security and a small check from his prior employer.

You know what THC does to the ambition centers to the brain, don't you?

>> Now what? >> It shuts them down.

>> There's no such thing as an ambitious weed smoker.

>> They're all mellow and and perpetually hungry.

>> Yep.

>> Gaining weight, too, huh?

>> No, he's he's been pretty um much the

same over the years. Yeah. >> Good. Okay. Yeah, >> that's good because that doesn't help the back obviously, but yeah, that generally goes with the munchies.

>> So, >> yeah. >> So, are you you're clearly building resentment for the last 19 years now because you've been carrying the load, >> you know, mentally, physically to take on the work. What is the actual problem at hand we're trying to solve right now? Because it sounds like there's multiple things.

You feel bad as a mother for not cash flowing your kid's dreams. You're angry at him. He doesn't have the ambition. Are you still trying to accomplish a financial goal that you're working so hard for or is this all you know?

>> Yeah, I want to retire one day.

you know, he just bought a brand new truck um >> with cash. >> He feels well 2/3 of a cash. We have a um

>> and you went along with that. So, you're going you get what you tolerate since 2017. You've tolerated this. And he didn't buy a truck without your knowledge. You went along with it.

>> Did you cosign for the truck?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. >> So, you you've got to you got to decide, you know, you can't gripe about this stuff when you freaking participate in it.

>> Okay. So, 2017, he's got his back's

okay, the pain is down, he's able to go to work, and you don't push the issue eight years ago.

So, and you know he wants to he just bought a new truck. No, he didn't. We just bought a new truck. You went with him. You signed the papers. You can't

blame that on him. You did it. So, yeah,

you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor um because you're quickly losing respect with the guy you're going to spend your twilight years with.

And so, um, yeah, he he

the you guys need to get aligned on where you're going with your dreams, and you're not. You do have what you have is a marriage problem. That's what you have. It's not a husband problem. It's a marriage problem. Uh, but you get what you tolerate. And so, um, the difference

is at our house, was I doing that, Sharon would have confronted that about

35 seconds after she felt like I should have gotten a job.

She, you know, her idea of hard work.

She grew up on the farm and so she would have been going, "What are what are you, what's your butt doing on the couch while I'm working this don't play." And

I mean, we we speak hillbilly at our place. It's pretty direct. So, you know, that's not, you know, so that that's what it is. You you've been tolerating this for so long that it's become normalized.

And, bless his heart, he probably thinks it's all okay. It ain't okay, by the way. I agree with you, but you've you your part that you played in it is by allowing it. So, I think the two of you need to sit down with the marriage counselor immediately.

and that's not a way to spend your old age. So, I Yeah, that that's what's

going on. >> Yeah. And it sounds like he might have lost some purpose. He might be depressed and so he got to find his mojo.

That'll do it. >> That'll suck out all the ambition.

>> That'll do it. That was a sound of ambition leaving the room. I heard it.

Yeah. So, sorry boys and girls. I know that offends some of you, but oh well, it's this is actual data. It's not just Dave's moralistic opinion. And um you

know, yes, I'm old and yes, pot's been around longer than you. So, that's how this works. So, um yeah,

it's just more normalized these days.

When I was a kid, it was like a dangerous drug and we were all going to hell. But now it's like a normal thing.

So, um, you know, >> but it has real effects. >> It does. >> One of those consequences is you're not going to be like, I'm going to go run a marathon now. Let's go.

>> Yeah. I'm going to tackle the world and

open a business and I'm going to go be somebody.

said no weed head ever.

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Jess is in Charlotte. Hi, Jess. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes, sir. So, I'm I'm kind of in a mess, but I feel like I'm still young and learning. So, um I have about, you know,

3,000 in credit card debt and um I' I've

sold my car um and tried to consolidate

some other debt and I took out a personal loan. Um but that is at a very high interest rate and it's about 8,000.

And then I have at 72 in student loans

and I'm >> 72,000.

>> 72,000. Yes, sir. In student loans.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm pretty much my current

job is is current causing a lot of health issues. And I I'm not supposed to have like a second job technically, but I have a small cleaning business that, you know, I do make good money, but I can't do it full-time out of fear of, you know, leaving my full time and and not >> Why is your full-time causing health issues?

>> It's just a lot of high demand and and a

lot of, you know, trying to get people in trouble behind their backs and things like that. And >> that doesn't cause health issues.

>> It's stressing me a little bit. Um I even ended up in like the emergency room. So it it >> you ended up in the emergency room because of anxiety.

>> Um more like heart like issues there

thinking it was they were thinking cardia cardiac but not is stress

related. >> More like a panic attack.

>> Yeah. Could be. Could be. Um but you know I'm only 33 so >> um I shouldn't be going.

>> What do you make at the stress job?

>> About 70,000. Mhm.

>> What do you do?

>> Um I I work in like human resources.

>> In what? >> In human resources. >> Human resources.

>> Yeah.

>> So you're the office all the stress comes and sits in.

>> Yeah.

Guess you can say that. >> Yeah. How big a company?

>> Um it's it's it's pretty big. Way over

500 employees. way over a thousand actually. So, it's pretty big. >> Is leadership not doing anything about the toxic environment?

>> Uh, not as much as they should. Um,

changes have been made, but it's it's it's difficult and it's going to take some time to get control of it to be honest in my opinion.

>> Nah, just start firing them.

>> Are you in a position to do that?

>> I'm not. I'm not. It takes it's

>> I can get control of it in about an hour and a half.

>> I bet. I bet. But it's it's so much red tape. Um >> it's only 500 people. That's not red tape. I got 1100 working here.

>> Yeah. Well, it's over 500. It's it's a it's a huge it's massive. Um >> Well, is it over 10,000 or over 500?

>> It was It's way I would say it's over 2,000 people.

>> Okay. That's a little different than 500. >> Yeah. >> I'm so confused. Okay.

>> Um Okay. So, you're in a job that sucks and you can't do anything about it, but it pays good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you need a new job, huh?

>> Yeah. And I've been trying. I'm trying really hard. I I am. I'm applying all the time, but I mean, I guess as of right now, I'm just I think the debt is is a lot as well. It's just But I don't

know. I can't just quit because that'll make it worse. >> No, you can't quit. that you're broke.

>> Um, >> yeah, >> but you do need a new job that pays the same amount and doesn't have all the trash in it.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> If you didn't call us, what was going to be your next move?

>> Honestly, to pull my retirement from retirement and pay off what I can and then try to scale my cleaning business a lot. >> Glad you called us first. >> Yeah, that's borrowing money at you're going to be hit with your tax rate plus 10%. So, you're going to be hit with about a 30 or 40% hit. And that's like

saying, "Dave and George, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to open my cleaning business." Nope. Bad idea.

>> Yeah. >> So, why do they not allow you to work on the side?

>> Um, it's just in the in the clause. I think this should be I think what they're saying this should be your primary um focus and you can't have anything outside of it. Um, like a part-time job.

>> And then sometimes we have to work overtime. So 8 to 5 could easily go from

8 to 6 or seven.

>> Mhm. Okay.

Well, um I don't think you've got a methodology to jump straight to the cleaning business because I don't think you can grow your cleaning business big enough that you're comfortable drop walking away from a $70,000 income.

>> Yeah. >> So you've got to walk into another job that does not have the contractual obligation to have no side hustle.

And then you then you take your side hustle and you grow it until it gets big enough that you've got some confidence.

Right now it's a dream. It's not really proven. >> Yeah. >> Because it's a small amount of money. It's nowhere near $70,000.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, you need a new job first that

um pays you what you make now or more that's not got the horrible environment and then and does and does allow outside work and then you begin to work on your other stuff. meantime, you do have 70,000 plus a little bit coming in from your side hustle, your illegal side hustle. And um that means you can begin to attack this $3,000 credit card.

>> Okay. >> Which means no more switching around the debt, consolidating the debt. We're just going to attack the debt. We're going to move through it. >> Yeah. You got to bust right straight into it. You do make 70 grand. I mean, hello, girl. >> So, you're bringing home four or five grand a month. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Uh on Melissa, just about >> How big how big was your tax refund last year? Um, not much honestly.

>> Good. Good. >> And you're not investing right now at all? >> I am into my retirement.

>> Yeah, I would stop your retirement temporarily and let's attack this debt head on.

>> Okay. And I Well, see, I'm forced to through my job. We can't not do it because they it it matches it. So, we have to take out a certain amount.

>> No, you don't.

>> Not unless you're in a governmental Not unless you're in a governmental position or working for the railroad.

Okay. >> And you're not neither one.

>> You should know that you're in HR.

>> I I I know >> there's no such thing as mandatory retirement in a privately in a private company. >> Okay. Okay. I'll definitely look at that. And I guess my my thing is I think my biggest one is the consolidation debt

is right now it's like at 8,000, but the interest rate is crazy. >> The biggest one is you need to cut up a stupid credit card and get it cleared and then you work on the 8,000. $11,000 cleans up a lot.

Okay. >> And 11,000 out of 70 plus cleaning toilets, >> you can get there pretty quick.

Interesting. If you stay out of restaurants and you don't go on vacation.

>> And um I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Proximity Principle, which will help you actually get those applications through because just sending an application randomly is of no value when you're looking for a job.

That's come up several times in the last couple weeks with me here on the air, George. And it seems to be a thing. Like we had one guy said, "I sent out 160 thou 160 applications and no one called back." That's because all you did is fill out applications.

We filled under 200 positions at Ramsey

last year and we had 15,000 applications.

Do you think we looked at all of those?

No, we did not. So, how did it get out

of the pile? some way or another, someone differentiated themselves other than just blindly filling out stuff digitally just to throw it against the wall, see if something sticks. And one way is you know somebody that works there and you go, "Hey, at least give my buddy a look here. He's he or she's good." Right? And uh that that's called the proximity principle and I'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book. But just sending out applications is a complete waste of calories. Don't bother.

No one no one's going to call you and go, you know, out of 22,000 people, you're the one. No, that that doesn't happen because you're not the one.

>> Well, all the resumes look the same now because everybody's just using AI to write the resume and then it filters out the AI resumes. And so, we're back at square one. >> Yeah, that's you got to know someone. >> One of the things we do, AI is used at

Ramsey to filter out AI. How fun is that? >> It's come full circle. The robots are fighting the robots. >> Yes. Someone needs to take that.

beautiful thing. >> Yeah, it's good. So, yeah, that's what you've got to do. And meantime, I think I'd be having some frank discussions with leadership if there's so much toxicity and stress sitting in an HR

department that um that you know they

that their culture sucks that bad inside the organization. I'd be having some conversations with leadership about how what we can do what we can do to clean this up. Like who needs to be fired?

>> Yeah. It should not feel like a reality show over in HR.

>> Yeah. And I can fix that. Let them let

them take their crap somewhere else.

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Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,

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hey.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar

trainings. These are trainings that are happening every week this month and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. George, when's the next one you're doing? >> I got one tomorrow.

>> So, if you're watching this on August 19th, join us on the 20th for the webinar. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and in the process you're going to find thousands and thousands of dollars of margin. Use every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. And you can ask us any question during the live Q&A which is rather entertaining and fun.

By the way, did we mention it's free?

Lisa's in Vegas. Hi Lisa, what's up?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, so we are a one-inccome family

and um, my husband and I, we, he's a

stay-at-home parent for now while our kids are young. That's a choice that was really important to us. We have a rental property that brings us about $500 a month. And, uh, we decided last year to,

well, a couple years ago to start a company. Uh, the company did okay, but

did not work out all the way. and between some investments that didn't work out and that company uh right now we are $75,000 um in debt with a heliloc.

>> You lost $75,000 on this startup.

>> Yes, it was. Yes. We had several things that didn't work out and we also were not wise with our money.

>> Wow. That's that's an ouchie.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And so, um, and then our car died in November, and because we had just helog, um, we couldn't use our regular credit union for a low rate interest, uh, loan, and all of our savings had been used up in that. So, now we also have a $285,

uh, payment, monthly payment on a car that's worth about 10,000.

>> What do you owe on the car?

>> Um, just about 11. So, no. So, it's the

about 10,000. So, what can how much can you get out of the rental property?

>> So, the rental property um we uh the

equity that we could get out of it would be 186 grand.

>> Good. Sell it and pay off all your debt.

>> And that's kind of what we wanted to know. We really want to get >> Yeah. When you lost the business, you lost the rental property.

>> Okay. Got it.

>> That's what happened. You just didn't admit it because you borrowed it.

>> Uhhuh.

So yeah, now you got a high interest car loan. You got to quit borrowing money, girl.

>> Yeah, we're trying. That's >> No, you're not. You just turned around, bought a car. >> You're not trying hard. >> You got to stop borrowing money. It's killing you.

>> No, we just started your program over the last month and we've done everything that you've said. So, we're Okay. We're we're heading that way. So, thank you.

>> Good. I hope. Please. Please. I don't I mean, I want you to win. I want you to What do you make?

I make about 80 grand.

>> Okay, good. And with no uh with no car

payments and no a heliloc payment, can you guys make it?

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We're completely fine, but prior than that, we're almost debtree other than our uh mortgage.

>> How much is owed on the mortgage?

>> Um so our personal mortgage, um we owe

228. >> Cool. Okay. Well, I'm going to fully fund it. I'm going to I'm going to pay off all my debt out of the 180. that's going to use up a 100 of this or it's going to use up 90 of this >> and um >> uh then I'm going to build an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses >> and um and that's probably 25 grand here

something like that. >> Yeah, we're thinking about 30. Um >> and then I'm going to then I'm going to chunk put a big chunk on the house and let's start start talking about getting this house paid off. you'll knock that mortgage down to like one I mean down to yeah 150 >> and start knocking that out.

>> One of the questions I had also is one of our main goals to getting out of debt is we want to be able to save money for our kids college and so um our oldest is

about to turn 10.

>> Um so we have about eight years but >> if you want to take if you want to take five grand each and get the college fund started with your Smart Ver Pro, that'd be fine. >> Okay. And then then let's chunk the rest of it on the house and and make sure we're doing our 15% of our household income now into retirement. That's baby step four.

Kids college is five. Six is pay off the house. And so that's where it's going to put you because you're going to be out of debt and have the emergency fund with the sale of the rental. The tr the good news is you had something that bailed you out.

So, you really have to draw a line in the sand and say, "Okay, that 2025 year,

that was the year we promised we're never borrowing money again for anything freaking ever." No matter what.

>> It's a big shift.

>> If you commit to that, you're going to be just fine no matter what comes your way. >> Well, stuff comes your way, it's going to be hard, but it's not as hard as going into debt and not having a rental property to sell to get out. So, you'll be in a pinch next. >> No payments with an emergency fund, you'll be in a different position. >> Yeah. You'll be in a sweet land. That's a awesome thing. So, absolutely. Cody is

with us in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Cody. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Excellent. I have a fun marital debate for you guys to try and sell for me and my wife. >> Okay.

>> Um, we are debating on whether we should

um pause uh 401k investing to pay off

the house. How much is owed on the house?

>> Uh 400. >> What percentage of your income are you putting into 401k?

>> Uh 15%. >> So you're doing what we teach.

Okay. And >> but there is a there's a slight catch to that though. I don't know if this matters or not, but our employers uh they don't do matching. They just do uh profit sharing at 15%. That's why I was

on the side of let's just do it and pay the house off and be free of this. Um,

>> and what's your household >> income? Percent >> is$ 250.

>> Okay. So, it's only $45,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> $45,000 a year doesn't solve a $400,000 problem.

I mean, if you stop your 401k, you benefit 45K.

You owe 400.

>> That's a 10year plan.

Well, we're on um we're currently on track to pay it off and we're we're throwing we just started throwing after we paid all our debts and everything off. >> Um >> yeah. How much are you throwing at the house now? How much you throwing at the house? >> 100K. >> 100K a year. >> 100K a year. >> Okay. So, you'll be done in four years without this. And if you do this, you'll

be done in two years.

>> Yes. >> That's the only difference.

>> No, not quite. Yeah, it's about it's about an 18-month difference. Actually, it's not a full two years. Okay. And uh how much is in the 401ks now?

>> Uh 700.

>> Okay. And how old are you guys?

>> Uh I am 38 and the wife is 35.

>> Okay. All right. You've done a great job, by the way. Congratulations.

There's not a wrong answer to this.

>> There's no answer in this that puts your face in the stupid column. I mean, this is both of these are smart things. Both ways you're going to end up ahead. >> You'll either be a multi-millionaire or a multi-millionaire. So, it's just that's your call. It's your call.

>> Yeah. So, um what we're arguing about is

not philosophically stopping a 401k.

What we're arguing about is 18 months faster or 20 months or 100 or 24 months

faster. That's all we're arguing. It's two years faster or not.

>> Where are you putting the 45K in profit sharing? cuz you can't I mean you'll max out a retirement plan pretty quick.

>> No, it's 45K. He's putting in 15% and then they're throwing 15% in on profit sharing on top of it. That's why the thing's grown so fast. Did I understand that right? >> Yes, that's correct, Dave. >> Yeah. And you get the 15% from the company whether you put in anything or not, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And you've already got 700 in there. So, >> Yes, sir. Uh,

it's a technical argument and and truthfully the the core answer is it doesn't matter. You're going to be a millionaire, multimillionaire or you're going to be a multimillionaire. Like George said, that's the core answer. So, because you've done such a good job on everything else and so the only argument is 18 months or 24 months, which one do we want to do? Um, and I I

my tendency is just to stick with the baby steps because they worked so well.

And I would just take a little bit longer and pay off the house and not worry about it. Um, >> and at your age, that level of missing out on investing 20 years from now.

>> That's a lot. >> That's a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> You're leaving on the table by not investing. >> And make sure all that's Roth. Um, so that it's growing tax-free from this point forward. Yeah, I'm probably going to just stay right where you are with the 15% and take four years pay off the house instead of taking two. Um, but

it's truthfully I'm not going to be mad at you either way.

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Our

scripture of the day, Galatians 6:9. Let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. Max Dri said, "We cannot become

what we want by remaining what we are."

Mara is with us in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Hi, Mara. How are you?

>> Good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um, so my husband and I are 33 years old and we are on baby steps four, five, and six. Good. Um, through my husband's um,

job, he has some um, RSUs as part of his

compensation.

And so we are looking at uh, using a large portion of those to start doing some non-retirement investing. Um, and I

just wanted to get your thoughts on um,

a wealth manager versus a financial advisor. Um, we've only met with a wealth manager so far. Um, and I had a little bit of pause just um, in how they

uh, kind of actively manage your money for you.

>> Okay. Explain what they were doing.

Um well this was just a informal uh

first call with them. Um but from what I

gathered um they would have access to our accounts and they would actively be choosing um what type of investments.

>> No thank you. >> I think that's that's what I thought knowing that I'm a longtime listener of yours.

>> No thank you. >> Um >> yeah I >> it's your job not theirs. They don't they don't get to mess with my money without my permission.

>> Okay. I did meet with one of your smart investor pros about five years ago or we both did. Um he was a financial planner

>> and it was kind of just a one-time touch point where he um gave us some recommendations on what to do with our 401ks at that time.

>> Um >> but um he really didn't try to pursue any type of followup. Um, so we're

looking to have more of a relationship, which I have >> a smart investor pro should be an ongoing relationship that they teach you

about investing. They never do a transaction without you first having approved it. Um, and you are in charge

of your money, but they're there to advise you, to help you, and to teach you. Um, and so my Smart Investor Pro

has been a personal friend for 25 years and he'll just call up and go, "Hey Dave, did you know that such and such is happening with the tax changes?" And I went, "Hm, that's interesting." He goes, "You know, you could move that over there." I went, "Oh, that's a good idea.

Okay, thanks for calling me." Yeah, let's do that. And that's how the conversation sounds, >> but that's after me functioning with him for 25 years. But in no case am I giving them the keys to the car and telling them to drive wherever they want to go.

>> Yeah. Okay. and trying to just sort out.

I think again we met with a financial planner. I think we're looking for more of a financial advisor this time where he's like you said advising us how to um

do things with money and teaching us.

>> Yes. >> Um but not not >> a lot of it might be semantics. >> I think your smart vtor pro is really what you're looking for I think in this situation. And you just again you're doing some you're doing some nonretirement investing in some good mutual funds.

You're going to pick the mutual funds. You're going to pick the strategy that you're going to use. You're going to want low turnover mutual funds because you're not going to be taxed as you go because low turnover means they don't sell the stocks inside of it. Doesn't activate the taxes.

And when you do take the money out, if you left it in there at least a year, it's going to be taxed at capital gains rate rather than ordinary income rate. So that's low a low turnover ratio m set of mutual funds is a great way to position this particular portfolio. But you need to go sit with someone and learn all of that and then agree to that and then they say, "Okay, here's some examples of some funds that do that. Yeah, let's go with that one and I don't like that one and I like the track record on this one and tell me what I'm missing and they can talk to you." But in no case are they driving the car?

>> Yeah. What that leads to is you call us three years from now and says, "My financial adviser did all this crazy stuff with my money and I had no idea." We're going, "Why weren't you involved?" >> Yeah. So that's what th this is the definition how a smart vister pro works and that's why we have them and that's why we vetted them to do that. And so you know I would just jump online and interview two or three of them in your area and find the one that matches your all's style and your personality the best and that you have the most comfort with.

>> Yeah. Explain exactly what you're looking for. >> But again, you are making 100% of the decisions with your money. When you don't do that, you're about to get screwed because you got someone that doesn't have as much money as you making decisions for your money.

No, we're not doing that. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. Please. No. Please. No.

So, good question. That's interesting.

All right. Jake is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Jake. How are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I'm a 25-year-old PhD student in aerospace engineering at the University of Southern California. Uh, and my question is, or I guess some quick background is I've been following your advice for about six or seven years now.

Um, I finished my undergrad degree in aerospace engineering debtree four years ago. And then I got my master's degree in aerospace engineering at USC two years ago debtree as well. >> Wow. when a lot of my friends who didn't get a scholarship finish in, you know, $100,000 $150,000 of debt and they'll be

spending, you know, a long time paying that back. Uh, but my question is, so I've been in the PhD program for four years, so I got my master's degree two years into that. Um, and I got the master's degree for free because the PhD pays for your master's degree tuition.

Um, so I kind of followed your principles and made sure that I didn't go into debt for that. Good for you. But my question is, um, sorry,

>> I said good for you. Well done.

Yeah, thank you. So, my question is um yeah, so I've been in the PhD program for four years. Um I kind of feel and

there's not really an end in sight as far as when I might finish. It might be a year, two years from now. Um and I'm not necessarily going to be making any more money. And it's a very multifaceted decision, but um I'm just kind of curious, you know, from a financial perspective whether I should drop out or not cuz on one hand I do have a full ad scholarship and it can get me the rest of the way through.

Um but I'm not necessarily going to be making any more money and I'm kind of missing out on the opportunity cost of, you know, they pay us about 90,000 free tuition, but that doesn't really, you know, do much past a certain, you know, taking more classes doesn't really help past a certain point, but they do pay us about $45,000 for living expenses um as part of the scholarship. Um, but if I was in industry, I could have been making, you know, 100,000 or 110,000 um, the last couple years.

>> Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, so for me, kind of the two careers uh, long term that I'm kind of bouncing between are um, the PhD program in the

first place was so I could get the free masters, then I could kind of decide from there what I want to do. Um, so I didn't want to go 100k in debt. I want to go to USC. And then once I got here, I kind of figured out um if you want to become an astronaut, which obviously is a very far-fetched goal, um you kind of need a PhD to do that as a civilian, as a nonjet pilot.

Um so that's kind of the reason I kind of continued. Um and USC obviously is a good school socially and everything to do that, but which but which you probably don't want to hear.

of me which wants to go be an entrepreneur. You don't really need a PhD for that. Um, and financially it just I'm just kind of, you know, throwing away opportunity costs. You know, I could be making a lot more salary and I could be, you know, starting side hustles and stuff like that. Um, which I can't really do right now. >> You got to do dissertation to close it out. And what is the uh what what's the

shortest possible timeline? Because you said the timeline's a little bit vague.

Why?

>> Um, it's different for every PhD and that's kind of the way um, you know, some PhDs are very clear-cut and some are not super clearcut. Um,

I would say it's the shortest is probably about a year. Um, but you know,

two years might be, you know, on the table as well. >> Why would it take longer than a year?

>> Um, I would say it just depends on the progress of the research. I made a lot of progress the last year or so, so I'm probably >> So, you're down to your dissertation.

That's it.

>> Yeah, most likely. >> Yeah. >> Have you just lost steam on it? You're just not excited about it anymore? Okay.

>> Yeah. Not as excited and I'm also again there's just kind of the um >> you're itching for some real world experience. >> I I'm not sure. I I have a couple friends that have funny stories about their dissertation periods. Um and uh

but the impression I got from them and their stories was that the dissertation is a little bit like writing a book. Uh

the first time I wrote a book, I learned this. Well, actually, it's about the third time I wrote a book before I finally got this advice from a real publisher that knew what they were doing. He said, "You're never going to get finished. You finally just stop and print it." >> Yeah. >> So, you're never going to get finished.

You need to finish this. You need to put it on a timeline. And if you can be done in a year, I would stick it out and knock it out. >> You're 25. I'm running out of time.

>> I'm going to knock this out in a year. I'm going to finish this. I'm going to limit the amount of research. I'm not going to go down all the rabbit holes.

I'm not going to win an award on the dissertation anyway. I just want the PhD. I'm going to finish this.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. >> Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show, except you get to be a part of it.

Part of what, George? >> The the Ramsay Show live. Okay. That's what I'm telling them about right now. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish. Oh, >> okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

>> Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. George, are you in here talking about TRS Live?

>> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? >> It It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know? Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. Thanks. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold here in Chicago? Wh what is happening? Can I Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available, so get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

>> Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George. That's >> how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. >> Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 24. Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026


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Normal is [music] broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Show Network in the Fair's Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. All

right, George, let's go straight to the call lines. We got Mark [music] who's in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, what's up, Mark?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you all doing? >> We're doing excellent. How can we help today? >> Yeah. So, I don't have a lot of experience being married so far, only [music] about 3 years and dealing with the finances of that. But my question is, is it normal, say if one person makes more than the other that say a big expense comes up that the other person should go into debt to pay the other spouse back? Because >> zero parts of that make sense.

[clears throat] No parts of that sentence. Who told you that?

>> Exactly. That's what I kind of felt. I mean, regardless of how the conversation's going to go, I'm like, I'd feel relief either way. Like, we're square now, but for a couple years there, it's been pretty stressful on my part to pay her back cuz >> Okay, give me a real life example, something that's happened.

>> Yeah. So, she's had a much more stable job than me. I mean, she's about 11 years older than me, so much more

set in her job, makes better money. So, how old at the time? >> How old is she and how old are you?

>> Uh, she's currently in her 40s and I'm in my 30s. And when we met, I was in my 20s and she was in her 30s.

>> Yeah. And so, I was in the mindset of

like, well, >> I'm still building my career. I've made big career changes. So a lot of the jobs that I had throughout our relationship and at the beginning of the marriage I was only making 40 50k while she's making 130k plus.

>> Okay. >> So uh big household expenses come up you

know solar HVAC unit big expenses and

you know she can pay that right out of her savings. Like she had like 100 grand in savings and paid it in cash.

>> But then it was like okay now you owe me half.

>> Was like okay. >> I was like okay. So, you don't have combined money. I mean, you guys have fancy roommates >> who cuddle on the weekends.

>> Not. >> Yeah. And I've actually used that same term with her. Like, I feel like I'm a renter at times. Um, >> well, you guys are making no shared decisions. You have no shared financial goals, no shared accounts. Nothing about this screams we are married.

>> Now, have you have you asked her about that or because here's here's what I'm hearing. If you've been going along with this for all these years and haven't really said the words, uh, you know what? I I feel like we should be combined, then she's kind of just doing what she thought is normal, which is I

do my thing, you do your thing. We kind of split it 50/50. You're not holding up your end of the bargain. So, it just sounds like a conversation needs to be had about you wanting to be closer to

her and have more transparency and have less of a yours versus mine and more of

an hours take on the money. Have you ever done that?

>> Yeah, as of recent within the past couple months. cuz now that we're square and I'm actually making just as much money as her because my job I finally

landed pays really well and then I started my own business that also did equally as well. So I'm like, okay. But my fear is is like if I lose that job again or business doesn't do as well, I'm not making as much that >> Yeah. You making more doesn't solve the root problem here.

For example, my wife stays at home. It would be insane for me like, "Well, babe, since you make nothing, you owe me half." That would be ins I'd be sleeping on the couch if I'm lucky. >> And so regardless of the situation, who makes more when it's y'all's money?

What are we going to do with this money?

What are our goals? Hey, we need to do this home repair. We want to go on this vacation. We need to pay off our debt.

And so far, it's been, well, Mark, it's every man for himself. Good luck out there. And there's also, it sounds like there's some gender roles playing out where I don't know if it's both of you or her where there's this feeling of since you're the man, you have to be making as much of as her or more. I don't know if that's coming from both of you or just coming from you or just coming from her, but these are all things that need to be discussed out in the open very very candidly so that at

least you know where each other is coming from and then you're able to

>> um bring up, hey, I know that that's the

way you feel, but that's actually not my viewpoint on it. And let's seek to learn

about each other first instead of changing each other first. That's what I would do. That'd be my first order of business. Let's learn so that we understand where each other's coming from. Then we can start to kind of make changes as opposed to today I want to combine our finances that you're it's probably not going to happen.

>> Yeah. And I I guess another one with that is say the mortgage and daycare for the kids cuz um those times where I

wasn't making as much, it was still expected that I pay the exact half. But I was like, "Well, that's going to not allow me to say put as much into say 401k or savings." >> Oh, yeah. The whole system is broken. How you guys been doing this? >> Yeah. We're going to pull up the whole thing. So, you can almost like forget about that because we're starting over.

>> Has she been married before?

>> No. >> Okay. I'm wondering there. This is coming from somewhere where she's being very protective of what she's built and therefore doesn't want you involved.

>> Yeah. And I've brought that up where, you know, a very strong sense of independence, uh, and all that with with

her, I'm like, okay, I get it. Love that. But if it starts to get to a point where it's like, I don't need you. Like, I've got this on my own. But kind of hold it against you is where I'm like, okay, that's it's kind of disrespectful.

>> Well, you become one. You become one when you get married. And it's not to say that you forsake everything that you

are. You just stand next to somebody else and you both be fully who you are together. [laughter] >> Yeah. And the foundation of all this is trust and respect. And it sounds like you don't have either of those things from her.

>> Yeah. And that's what I've expressed to her over the years. And yeah, I've I've

stayed consistent with that. But at the same time, I'm like, >> sounds like you need a mediator, a counselor involved who can um help you

guys both hear each other and take what

you're hearing from each other and actually convert it into some actions that are going to get you on the same page.

>> Oh, yeah. We've done that. I understand where her insecurities come from, but as far as say improvements on that over time, it's it's one of those things where it's like I I don't know if you're getting there >> to know that I'm on your team. I'm not a leech. >> What was the home?

>> Um, well, mostly just not getting into a cycle like falling into our our cycle with each other of >> say the attachment styles, anxious or avoidant attachment styles and understanding where people are coming from. uh not jumping the gun and getting

it to your, you know, four horsemen, real goman. Um but

>> you're just saying you're just not seeing it.

>> Well, it's as long as there isn't any I

mean, we've never been in destitute.

We've never really been in major debt, nothing like that. So, a lot of it to me is like, we're doing fine, but I don't

know why your savings should continue to balloon while mine either stagnates or

depletes because I'm like, what happens later in life? >> Retirement, are you going to retire without me? >> For sure. That's the [laughter] plan.

>> Leave you in the dust, Mark. I mean, part of it is you can choose not to there's some of this you can choose maybe not to participate in, which is when she starts using the I versus me

and versus you language. You can say, "Well, uh, I don't want to participate that. I see myself together with you." Um, [music] and and not participate in that and just say, "Here's what I'd like us to do.

Here's what I'm thinking would be great for us, uh, our money." and you can really start leading the charge in that as much as you can. Um, and when she starts to make those comparisons, just say, "Well, I did not plan to pay you back because I feel like it's our money and [music] I don't like this feeling of power struggle that it's creating." And really just hold your ground for a while. That's what I do.

[music]

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All right, [music] we've got Scott who's in Houston, Texas on the line. Hey, what's up, Scott?

>> Hey, Jaden. George, how you doing today?

Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> You bet. How can we help today?

>> Well, I I think I have a good situation, but I need some guidance as to how to do this. Um, I retired last February. Um, I

had to because of my profession. And, um, I followed Dave's plan now for close to 20 years. So, uh, I've done fairly

well. Um, basically my my nest egg is

just about $3.3 million. And I've been a

saver all my life. So, I'm trying to figure out how much I can spend and when

I can spend it.

>> All right. Okay. Well, how old are you?

>> I'm 65. >> 65. And what are you what are you doing

right now? I mean, how how are you drawing income right now?

>> I'm I'm basically drawing income out of my out of my 401k that I've had forever.

>> And um I' I've thought about going back

to work on a limited basis. I have a few small health issues that I'm working through that that are kind of keeping me from working at this point anyway just because of having to having obligations to take care of things like that. But uh but um it's just you know I'm I'm afraid to spend money because I've always saved it. >> Well Oh, I see. Okay. What are your current expenses if you added them all up for the month?

>> Yeah, I sure have. It's basically, you know, everything comes out about $8,000 a month. And is that what your is what's

your draw set on?

>> My draw is set on eight is just about 8,000. >> Okay. So, you're not you're not doing anything extra?

>> No. No. I'm I'm doing absolutely other than, you know, things like buying Christmas presents and, you know, birthdays and possibly going out every once in a while to get something to eat.

But no, I'm I've I've been a workaholic all my life. [laughter] >> Well, what do you want to do? If I said, "Scott, let just shoot me straight. Do

Do you want to go to Europe? Do you want to go buy a boat?" Like, what is it that you want to do?

>> Well, actually, believe it or not, I already have a boat.

>> Um, and and I don't really want to travel. I I don't know what I want to do because my whole life was pretty much working and um and just, you know,

existing. >> Wow. Do you have any other sources of income outside of the 401k? pension, social security, IRA, anything like that, real estate. >> Well, social sec social social security is in the mix, but I'm not drawing on it yet because I don't need to.

>> Yeah. >> And you know, um, and I'm not at my full retirement age. >> Okay. Yeah.

You could wait till 67 or even 70 if you want to really get the max. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. The math says you're fine.

You could easily withdraw 10 grand a month from that account and it's never going to deplete. >> Yeah. >> In your working life. I mean, in your lifetime.

Let's say you live to even 95, >> it the balance will still be there. And so I'm not worried about that unless you have some crazy, you know, your expenses are going to go up to 20 30 grand a month at some point in life, which it doesn't sound like that's the case. So you just need to factor in, you know, health care costs. There's it's kind of a smile.

What they've seen in the financial planning world is once you retire, there tends to be a slight upgrade in spending for a little bit because you're like, "Woohoo!" And then as you get older, it actually goes down for a foreseeable amount of time. And then in the final stage of your life, it ramps back up due to all the healthare costs. >> So, >> right. Right.

>> For me, this is way less a money question and way more a self-discovery question. And I think it's really fun for you to be able to do this at at this stage in your life.

getting to know what do you like, what do you not like, and I would just play a game. Honestly, I would play a game where every month I force myself to

budget for something new just to see, do I do I like it? >> Can you make it 10 grand and the extra two is just fun money for Scott? Would you be able to do that right now?

>> Well, I'm I'm I'm actually doing that right now. And the problem is is I'm I'm

saving I'm I'm saving my own money again. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. You're not actually spending it. That's why I say make yourself, you know, go get in your

friend group and say, "What are you guys doing?" And if they say, it's almost like make yourself say yes. If they say, "Oh, this weekend we're going um on a hike." You go, "All right, I'll try it." And then you come back and you go, "I'm crossing that one off the list. I don't want to do any more of that." And then if the next time they go, "We're we're going to Burning Man." You're like, "All right, I I'll try it." And then you end up, man, I really like festivals. Like whatever.

I just want you to try a bunch of things and just let this be your season of I'm just getting to know Scott.

I I am unattached from work the the way

I you know it's a very different stage for me and it it's just exploratory and

I think that's really really fun.

There's no wrong or right answer.

>> I think I'm just being too cheap and I'm having trouble cutting with that. Now, do you have anyone close to you in your life? >> I have two daughters. Yes.

>> Great. Would they encourage you to spend?

>> Uh, I I don't know whether or not they would because they've seen I mean, they're they're kind of Dave Ramsey's also.

>> They just know Dave Dad's a cheapkate and now he's trained us to be cheap skates.

>> Can I tell you though? >> Call me a cheapkate. >> Well, here's the other side of the equation. You have lived like no one else and now you're forgetting that it's time to live like no one else.

It's time to do the things that felt wasteful how to do. >> Yeah. Things that felt crazy and wasteful are now going to be a rhythm of your life. >> You get to delegate the things you don't want to do.

You get to upgrade the things that really it's time for an upgrade. You get to take the trip that felt frivolous. You get to fly first class even though you've always felt like that was a ripoff. You get to do all those things.

You've earned the right. >> Mhm.

and you're like, "Wow man, I really should have enjoyed life a little more." >> But but even that, Scott, just because I

think awareness of this is a really big point of it, you really have to remind yourself that you're kind of rewiring your brain in this moment because for years, you've literally created a pathway in your brain that said spending money, you've equated spending money with uh irresponsible behavior and a

responsible person saves their money. A responsible person puts their money away. You've told yourself that for 40 years and now it's like, okay, I need to

rewire my brain and do the work of actually doing those actions to tell myself if I spend this money, nothing bad's going to happen. And it's literally at that point, you're just following science to help you learn that

if I spend money, if I spend this money,

nothing bad's going to happen.

>> Nothing's going to implode. Nothing's going to fall off. I'm not going to destroy anything. And the more and more that you do that, the more you will free yourself up to realize, oh, this is this is good. And you won't have that part in your brain that's like, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Right? So that I mean that's just at the like lowest

scientific level what you're doing.

>> If you think about like a workout you you have been doing leg day your whole life and now your arms are atrophied and so it's a different kind of workout.

You're working different muscles and it's going to take time. This is not a thing where next month you've just paused all investing and you're only spending. I think this is going to take a few months for you to get get in the rhythm of and it's going to go hey I'm okay. The balance is growing. Not saving is not hurting me and spending more than I used to is not hurting me. And so you're in a great spot. This is not advice for everyone. This is advice for a guy who has $3.3 million sitting there

at 65. If you had half a million dollars, it would be a very different story. I'd be going, "Dude, you need to get back to work and you need to keep saving." >> But you have done the hard work and so it's time to enjoy it. And uh a good book for this, the book of Ecclesiastes.

It's one of my favorites for to remind myself that everything is meaningless.

So, just enjoy the time you have on this earth. Drink and be merry, my friend.

That's funny. I I think uh you remember when we did the live like no one else cruise last year, I talked about this exact subject of rem remembering that if

you're you know walking the baby steps, you are you're wiring your brain for a while to say the habits that I was doing

which were usually spending got me in a bad place. Like you've told yourself that a lot. So what I must do is not spend to get myself in the good place.

And you we tell ourselves that for however long it takes us to get out of the baby steps. And then we have to then do the work about rewiring our brain and

say, you know what, I've become a a financially respon responsible adult. I can now spend my money again. And by the way, being a financially responsible adult, if you're checking the things on the checklist, you're living on a budget, you're living a life that's out of debt, you carry the proper insuranceances, you value savings in the way of, you know, having your 3 to 6 months, you're paying off your house, [music] you're investing for your future in a 401k, and you prioritize generosity. If you're checking those green boxes, that means there's some

money that you can spend in >> time to party. You ran the marathon. You went past the finish line and you're still running. It's okay [music] to take a pause, have a drink, and enjoy this third phase of your life, Scott.

[music]

[music]

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Hey, Mandy. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Thank you guys for um taking my call. But I um I I just have a I I feel

like this maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but my husband is like super

private about his finances

and it wasn't a big deal when we weren't

married, >> but I guess I thought we were on the

same page when we got married, >> which was when how long ago? Um, well, we've been together for um about 20 years. We've been married like seven.

>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> So, 13 years together, seven years married. >> Yes. We've been together a long time.

And um it it really didn't bother me

until we got married. And I guess I thought we'd be working together.

[snorts] And I've tried to like encourage working together. Um he was

when he turned 60 so we're an age gap couple. So when he turned 60 years old he was downsized from his company. So he [clears throat] he's been unemployed slashret retired

[gasps] since then. So that's been about 6 years. >> So okay. >> So he's about 66 now.

>> Yes. >> How old are you? >> I am 53.

>> Okay. Um, >> how has money been handled thus far in the past seven years? What does it look like for you guys to run your household?

>> So, that's the thing. Like, he's been entirely like, I'm going to handle my own. We have a joint checking account for our like household bills. He just refused to combine anything.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> any children?

>> None together. We've both been previously married. we have kids, you know, from those relationships, but they're grown and out of the house.

>> Okay. >> Um, so they don't really factor in. Um,

but like I like obviously he's retired, so I'm thinking like down the road like, you know, what happens to one of us?

What, you know, I want to think about our future together.

>> What have you said to him? Cuz here's let me tell you what I'm hearing from you and then you tell me. So what I'm wondering is you were together for 13 years. It was away which was very separate which makes sense. You weren't married. Then those habits kind of filtered into the marriage. When did you

say and how did you say I'd like for us

to now that we're married be one and then what did he say? So tell me about all that part. Well, that kind of that was kind of a conversation before we got married. Like, and I thought we were on

the same page before we got married. And after we got married, like things just weren't clicking that way. >> Why did you think you were on the same page? What made you think that?

>> Because we had those conversations >> and he said, "Yes, I agree." >> Yep. Yep. It was like, "Yep, I think that's a good idea. I agree with that." you know, and like but then it was like

to actually put them in practical motion like he was just >> what does that look like? >> And then did you dig into that?

>> I tried like he he absolutely like he

won't have a conversation. He avoids

having those hard conversations. I tried going like I I wanted to go to like let's go to therapy. He wouldn't go, you know, so we can talk about these things.

He refused. He won't go to therapy.

>> Get mad?

>> Um, no. He just won't like he can't hear

me or he can't like his he doesn't his

voice doesn't come out. Like it just it's a total withdraw. >> Just shuts down completely.

>> Um, >> yeah. There there's a lot behind this that he's not telling you. And maybe it's from the past. Maybe it's his own insecurities. Maybe he's trying to protect because he's been hurt. I don't know what it is, but all I can tell you is that he is basically opting out of

this marriage by shutting down constantly. >> So, we had like a a a lifealtering thing

in our family and that was kind of like it kind of made me think, hey, life is life is really short. It can change on a dime, right? >> So, I was like, okay, like I want to sit with a financial planner. Let's get our things in order. Let's like whatever. I thought maybe that would encourage, >> you know, because it was a big deal.

Yeah. >> And it affected all of us. And I thought, okay, this like this is going to encourage us to like get things in order. And he just he absolutely said

no. Like he's got stuff on the computer.

Everything is password protected.

>> Oh boy. And I just >> Do you think there's something more nefarious happening?

>> I I like he I don't think so. I just I

just feel like either one of two things.

either he's got more money than um I

think he does and he doesn't trust me or he's super poor and doesn't want [laughter] to tell me. >> So, how are Mandy for for the sake of just me assessing like your security in this? How much money do you have? Like what do you earn? What do you have in your name? Tell me about you for a second. >> Um so I make about $70,000 a year. I my

house is paid off. My car is paid off. I have little to no debt. Like >> the house that you guys both live in is paid off, isn't it? Is it in your name?

>> It is. It is in my name. I like I own

the house before

we were together. >> And then your car is paid off.

>> So you don't have any debt?

>> Not really. No, nothing to speak of.

Like $3,000 in credit card debt.

>> Okay. What's in your retirement?

So, I have a retirement through my um my

work um which is currently like at $50,000 and I also have like a state pension. So, I'm a state employee.

>> Okay. >> So, um so I have that as well.

>> So, I I I just wanted to know how how

part of the like how how together you are and you you're on your way. Um, what

I would do if I were in your shoes is I would have some real adult talk, which

is in and basically setting a very clear

line of here's where I am and here's

what I'm going to need in order to go forward because the way that the marriage is running is not working for me. It's not valuing me. There's no trust in me. um

you've you've I'm not saying that you've been um angry or like combative in any

way, but I am saying that you've shut me out. And I can't be in a marriage that I'm shut out of. And our money is a huge part of our life. It touches everything.

And I'm feeling very, very put out by all of this. And I've made these attempts. I don't think I need to list them because you know about them and you have shut me out. And so now I am saying here's what I need in order to proceed.

We have made it about you and we I've let you do your thing and now I'm about to do my thing. That's basically the conversation I would have. And I would say here's what I need to go forward because today I'm not safe. You've shut me out.

And I don't know if that means that you have millions that you don't want me to be a part of or if it means that you owe millions and you don't want me to be a part of. I don't know. I don't know you. You're not letting me know this part of you.

And I've suggested counseling. And so this is you, Mandy, at this point. This is you about you deciding how strong you want to be on the matter. >> Is this going to be something that you can because the ball's now in your court.

And I think that's that's exactly right because like as many times as I've suggested counseling, I myself have gone to counseling. >> You're doing your part >> and I am I'm cleaning up my side of the street and I think that is what has helped me like see things through a much

clearer lens >> as how much I'm being boxed out.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz you're getting healthy and now it's causing you to see the unhealthiness. >> Yes. >> Yes. very much so. And I'm like I I kind

of feel like maybe I'm overreacting.

Like is this is this enough to like >> You're not Mandy. And if he makes you feel that way, that's what the kids call gaslighting.

>> You are not the crazy one. You are asking for something very reasonable. Hey, I signed up for life together with this person and you are boxing me out completely. I feel anxious. I feel disconnected. We need to be on the same page and on the same team or else this can't move forward.

>> I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, Mandy. It's not an easy thing. We can't change people. We can control what we can control and that's us right now. So focus on you and what you can do.

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>> All right, going back [music] to the phone lines, we've got Mia who's in Seattle, Washington. What's up, Mia?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yeah, how can we help today?

>> Okay, so my husband and I are on baby step number two. we are 6,9

$619,000 in debt. Um most of that is a mortgage.

And so my question is really going to revolve around that. But just giving you a little background, um we've been in a new home for about a year and two months. Um our mortgage on that is 525.

We inherited a parent plus loan

last October in 25 for 65,000.

and we have a 401k loan um that we use

to get into this house and we owe 29 on that. We do own our cars and there's no other debt. So my question is we're both in our mid-50s. We're on baby step number two. We really just need a clear plan on moving forward.

How when what do you recommend for

trying to get to retirement? His 401k is currently frozen. It only has 60,000 in there. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um, so we're really wondering, should we sell and rent until we save up enough to reby smaller?

Um, we also don't want to live in this area when we retire. We have family in another state with grandb babies. So, I know that's a lot to unpack, but whatever advice you can give me, I'm all yours. >> Yeah, sure. So, tell us about your

income. Tell us about your working life.

What are you guys earning uh together, and what do you take home each month?

Okay. So, I'm a stay-at-home mom. Um, I've we've we've got five kids. I'm on the last two. I have been home for 22 years, so I don't make an income. He makes uh an annual of about 200,000.

>> Okay. >> Our take-home is about 10 a month.

>> 10 a month. You said >> 10,000. >> And how much of that is the mortgage?

Our mortgage just went up an additional

500 in January due to um we they call it

an assessment. So our mortgage payment currently uh with HOAs is running about 4700 a month. >> Oh wow. That's really high for your income. So there is I mean that alone would

cause me to say yeah you've got too much house and then you've got the debt on top of it and there's not um unless you

tell me there's something that's going to happen drastically with income.

You're you're up against it. That's probably why you're seeing almost no margin. Correct.

>> Okay. Yes. >> It's going to be hard either way. So let me lay out some options for you. One is you go to work full-time. and we drastically increase the income. We're able to clean up the parent plus loan and 401k loan fast, keep up with the mortgage and invest for retirement. Is that a viable path?

>> You tell me. >> My two my two children. Um we can talk about that. >> They're 10. They're twins.

>> Okay.

>> And is there an option? And you know, I know homeschooling is a real values thing. So it's not a thing where I go, "Well, just put them in public school and get to work." But there's a reality here where you guys can't retire and you

can't afford this house, which means there's no home to homeschool in. That's my fear.

>> And so homeschooling, all of these things, it's a luxury to be able to do that, to stay at home, to homeschool.

And right now, you guys can't afford the luxury. And so it's either that or you sell, you go rent somewhere. And I don't know, can you rent somewhere for $2,000 a month, $2,500 a month in your area?

We would have to go outside the main area, but it is doable. We would just have to downsize, which we're both willing to do. >> Okay. >> We're both very open to, you know, whatever we can do. Um, so we're willing to do that. Yes. We would just have to leave this area and it would be just a small commute. >> Okay. >> For my husband's employment and for some of our activities with homeschooling, but that would be fine. >> What's What's the equity in your house?

What would you take away?

We've lost We've only been in a year and a half. So, we've lost equities with >> fees and all that. So, >> you'd walk away maybe owing money.

>> If we Okay. So, if I was honestly going

to sell today, we could probably after fees walk away with maybe 60,000.

>> Oh, okay. That could almost knock out the parent plus loan. >> Yeah. That's not what I thought you were going to say. [laughter] >> I thought you were going to say we would make zero if we're lucky.

>> That's what I thought. Okay. So that's a huge that's a huge change in the conversation um in a short amount of time. So, >> okay, >> that's that makes me feel better about the idea of downsizing is the fact that you could actually make some progress very quickly by getting these parent plus loans out of the way and then that would just leave uh well, technically you do the 401k loan first, but you know what I'm saying?

It it it only leave the the 35,000 there for you, >> which means you could if you threw $3,000 a month, which your savings from the mortgage down to renting plus any extra margin, you could clear all this by the end of the year. So, think about that.

to save up some money in your emergency fund. That would create a stable foundation for you guys to then be able to invest his amazing income. That is the saving grace here is he makes really good money. >> The hard news is he might need to work longer than he wanted to in order to be able to retire and support the family.

>> Yeah. And that also gives you the ability if you decide that you can pick up some income and that you can work.

Um, it just frees you up a little bit more to be uh to to value that system

that you have in place a little bit more because if you keep this house, you can't. It's like, I have to work. >> It's a pressure cooker and we need to release some of this pressure right now.

And I hope one day you guys get back into a house and it's not stressful and you can easily afford it and you have no debt, you have plenty of savings, you're on track for retirement. That's the goal and that's why we tell people to move real slow when it comes to a house and do it when the timing is right.

>> Yeah. And so there's there's viable options here, but again, it's sacrifice all the way around. There's no shortcuts to living the life that you guys want.

You know, having the cake and eating it, too. >> That's right. And so I wish you >> got a shake. >> Yeah. >> Thanks for the call. A very good situation. >> You can make up for lost time on a retirement fast, making 200 grand with no debt. >> Good news. >> Absolutely. Yeah. All all is not lost.

All right, let's go to Michelle. She's in Norfolk, Virginia. What's up, Michelle?

>> Hi. >> Hey. What's up?

So, my question is um

I'm wondering if I should quit my job

because um I have one daughter in daycare and then we tried for another and surprise we had twins which was not in the budget. Yes. Um which was not in the

budget. Um, so and the question is, should I quit my job um to

stay home and take care of my children um because like I don't bring in enough to cover daycare fees or should I hold

out for about 3 to 6 months um and just

kind of take the loss while I'm aggressively trying to find another job um because I'm not trying to have like a lapse in my resume.

>> I mean, there's two questions here. One is do you like working and do you want

to work? Do you see what I'm saying?

Like is there a part of you that wants to work or do you prefer to stay home and this just gives you the out to do it?

>> So I like working. I I grew up very

financially insecure. So I get really nervous by not having a job or any

income coming in. >> Do you need the money?

um in your budget. >> We would be we'd make do without it. Like we don't need it, but it's >> What does your husband >> It would also be He makes um 6,500 a

month. >> You have debt?

>> Um no, we have about 65,000 in the bank saved up. >> Great.

>> Um well, our mortgage, >> but Okay. What's your mortgage payment every month? Um 2,800.

>> Okay. So, can you guys make it work off 6,500 take-home pay with no debt? It feels reasonable.

>> Um yeah, but daycare is going to cost like So, I make 3K and daycare is going to cost four grand. >> But I'm saying that he makes 6,500 a month. >> Oh. Oh, yes. >> So, even without you working, you have 6,500 a month to work with.

>> Yeah. It's just diapers and formula.

>> What if you worked part time? What if you split the difference and you did a part-time kind of half day with the kids

and then you did a part-time job and split the difference?

>> I mean, I'm open to that. I'm just I

>> you have to figure out what My advice to you would be to figure out what problem you solve cuz I I hear too. But diapers and and wipes and formula is not thousands of dollars a month. And so we also have to be realistic and look at the numbers. So, I would just make a budget tonight with your husband using every dollar, just his income. Go, here's what our future life would look like. And if the math checks out, you go, "Yeah, we can make this work." >> Then go for it. Stay home.

>> But if you also like the security, that's why I said you're solving for a couple of problems. Cuz if you like the security of working, you [music] can work part-time, and that's great, too.

Nothing. >> You got options here. >> You got options. Just figure out is it I want to be home? Do I need a job? Do we need the money? Those are the three the three areas you need to get answers for.

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Hey guys, welcome back to the Ramsay show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I didn't say this before cuz George I think they already know but you're George Campbell. I'm Jade Warshaw. >> Thank you for telling them. [laughter] >> They may not have known it from last time. >> They know this voice a mile away. Who's that sultry smooth cowboy tone right there? That's George Campbell. >> Cowboy. I like it. All right. You keep saying that. George. All right. We're going to go to Stacy in Portland, Oregon. What's up, Stacy?

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing good. Just living it up.

>> Chopping it up. [laughter] >> Oh, great. So, my um what I'm looking for is some

advice on how to speak to our kids about

just the way different families live their lives in return to spending or excuse me, in regards to spending and debt. Um you know, we've always stuck to a budget, avoided debt, and just lived within our means. Um but we have family members who are constantly being very

irresponsible. They're leasing cars and defaulting on payday loans and all of this. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> How do your kids know about it?

>> Well, they don't. So, the problem is that our kids just see the outside. They see their cousins get to do all these fun things and have a nice new car and get to go out to eat and we don't do as

much of that stuff. >> The underbelly. [laughter] >> So, they're they're throwing a tantrum because they're going, "Mom, why do they get all the cool stuff? We want cool stuff." And you have to be like, "Because we don't go into debt." Well, yeah. We we kind of just brush it

off. We don't really say that, but so that's kind of what I'm wanting to know is how can we >> How old are they? >> Speak to them. >> They are 9 and 11.

>> Perfect. That's a great age cuz they can understand this script, right? Say, "Hey, every family does money differently. In our family, we don't go into debt." And that means we don't borrow to buy stuff because when people borrow, they get things now, but they have to pay for them later, which is stressful.

We choose to wait and save instead. And that's why our life looks different. And the trade-off is worth it because we don't have debt. It means we have more freedom and options and peace and more time together.

And if there's something you really want, we can make a plan for you to save up and get that thing or have that experience. We don't say never. It's just we don't do it with borrowed money.

Would that hit with him or would they go, "All right, I'm going to go play video games." >> Uh, probably the latter.

I mean, I'll be let let me put it like this cuz my son I literally had a

conversation with him last night. He's not uh nine, he's he's seven. My kids are five and seven. And last night it

was like, "Hey, how come I can't play K-pop Demon Hunters?" And [laughter] I

said, "Because I don't think that's an appropriate game for you." So, I start with a very kind of like high level cuz sometimes I can get away with a high level uh because that's just not an appropriate papa and I don't think that that's an appropriate game for you.

Okay. Sometimes he'll take it at that.

But then he took it the next level. He said, "Well, all my friends are playing it." To which I said, "Prince, uh, your

your friends, they have parents, and sometimes your friends parents don't value the same things that me and Papa value, and we value, uh, making sure

that you're always at an age appropriate level with the things in the games that you play." Some parents don't value that. That's their business. It's not our business. And so, it's almost like that with money. It's the same thing of saying, "Hey, you're you're going to see people spend their money in ways that are different from us, and that's just a reflection of our values in this house.

Here's what we value." And I think that if you can frame it up from that set of

values, it actually helps you answer a lot of those questions in the same way.

Do you know what I mean? Cuz then you can always go back to values. Well, in our house, we value this, this, and that, and so that doesn't align. Simple as that. >> Does that help at all? You you honestly, Stacy, you're further down the parent train than I am. So, I mean, how do you

how do you if your kids framed up something like that that they want to watch a movie that you don't approve of or they want to go someplace with their friends that you don't approve of, what would you say to them?

>> No, that is pretty much how I would handle it. Um, pretty much the same

thing is just, you know, different families do things different and what works for us doesn't always work. But

the only thing I I worry about and I don't know maybe I'm thinking too much about it is uh they have cousins who are

close in age and I wouldn't want them going off and saying oh my parents say

your parents are in debt and they're doing >> well that's why you go to the value side and that way you don't have to talk anything about what they're doing. It's not you're not throwing shade at them.

you're just saying, "Hey, we don't have the money for that thing and we're not going to borrow money to do it." And so it's if they go to their cousin's house and say, "Well, our mom says that we we don't we're not going to go into debt for it. We can't afford that right now." Fine. If they want to, you know, judge you for that or, you know, the the family wants to judge you for that, that's fine. You're going to get judgment from family regardless no matter what you do.

>> Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. Absolutely. No, no worries. I think it's going to take some several conversations. I don't think it's a one time. With a kid, it's like you need to say it 20 times and maybe they'll get it on the 21st. >> Yes. And even when they're younger, sometimes I feel like >> you want to talk about it more than they even care about it. It's like they just brought it up, but then they're already on to the next thing pretty quickly.

Now, at 9 and 11, yeah, they might keep hounding you, especially if it's something they want to have and they keep continually seeing it. But at the end of the day, man, values.

>> Yeah. Tying it back to family values goes a long way. >> I would go to my friend's house, my cousin's house and play with all their toys that they bought and I had a great time and I'd go home and I had my stuff.

>> Yeah. >> I'd sneak over to grandma's if I wanted to watch cable, you know. >> Absolutely. >> And so I didn't feel like I needed to have it personally.

I just wanted access to >> just bum it off somebody else. Exactly. Our neighbors had all the best Nintendo games and so we would go over there and their parents would buy them uh like their they never ate at home. So everything was like, "Do you want McDonald's or Taco Bell or Burger King?" And if you were over there at just the right time, listen, you're getting a happy meal.

>> Great. >> This happens as an adult. Like I love to be on a boat. I am not going to buy a boat.

>> Yes. >> Who's happy to take us out on the boat?

>> Yes. >> That's the key in life. >> The the key in life is knowing that. And it's also to know like sometimes you're around your neighbors and you think I

should have the same lifestyle as they do. After all, we live in the same neighborhood or after all maybe we work at the same workplace. But at the end of the g the day, at the end of the day, you don't really know what their life

is. And so you have to also be careful not to make that comparison game. Kids can do it, but our cousins have this.

But if adults do it, it it it can >> at some point you got to mature and go, I don't need to look at my neighbor's bowl to see what he has. >> Yes. >> Unless I want to make sure he has enough. Right. That that's the only time to be looking over to see opportunity to be generous, not to be envious. Yes.

>> That's [snorts] just that you're drinking a poison. >> I always think about I think it was Kevin Hart. I think it was the Laugh at My Pain comedy special where he was talking about going out. I think it was this. He was basically talking about going out with his celebrity friends.

And it's like if you're friends with basketball players, like it's really easy to think, oh, we're on the basketball team, so we all make good money. But if you're the starting player, like if you're if you're on the starting team, you make a lot more.

>> It's a different world you're living in, >> right? So you have to know that showing up like, hey, I don't have we might all work at the same place or we might all live in the same neighborhood, but it does not mean our lifestyles are supposed to look the same. And I liked that that basketball team kind of analogy to remember. We're all wearing a jersey, but it does not equate to the same life.

[laughter] >> And that's going to happen all over in our normal lives. We all have friends who make a lot more than us, that make a lot less than us. >> And you treat everyone the way you'd want to be treated. You never belittle them.

And you understand everyone's in in a different place [music] financially. >> That's okay.

>> That's their business. >> It's all good, baby. >> Cost you 0 to mind your own business.

>> I know. That's right.

>> [music]

[music]

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All right. All right. [music] To the phone lines we go. We've got Carol who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's up, Carol?

How can we help today?

>> Hello, Carol. Um, hello to you. Um, my

husband and I are old and retired. I'm

75. He is 80. Um, we have a 52year-old

daughter who still lives with us. Oh,

>> she is single and she is has always been

undermployed and we can afford to have her here, but she is annoyed. We would like to be alone in her old age. >> I bet. >> Is there a way to get her out?

>> Yes, you need to go.

>> Kicking her out, closing the door, changing the locks. [laughter] I'm being dramatic, but yeah, there's a way to get her out with you.

Well, she has um over her lifetime over

her 52 years, she has lived with us almost all the time. >> Oh boy. >> Had two boyfriends that she lived with for a while. One of our sons took her in for a year >> and that helped us out a lot. But then he says she cannot be here anymore and none of our other kids will take her in.

>> Why does anybody need to take her in? Is she Does she have any disabilities? Does she have anything that precludes her from living in life?

>> From working? >> Yeah. >> She doesn't want She doesn't want to work. >> She doesn't have to. >> You want to work? >> But she hasn't had to. >> She's right. And we have enabled us and we need to >> Okay, good. You know that. >> Learn how to not enable her.

>> The way you learn to not enable her is to stop the behavior today cuz she knows

you guys will be a doormat and just keep going and let her come back and keep covering the bills whenever she's short.

And so instead, you go, "Hey, you need to leave by the end of this month." >> Yeah. By the end of this month, >> and then you have to evict her cuz likely there might be actually be some laws around this because she's lived there for a while, receives mail there.

This is like a tenant. And so I would actually look into your state laws and you might need to contact an attorney to do this right. I don't know how how wild she is. She comes after you guys to sue, but you want to make sure you do this right.

>> Okay. Yeah, >> I don't realize there's recent legalities with this. >> I mean, she could >> she's living for 30 years. She's basically squatter's rights at this point. So, you might need to give a written notice and say, "Hey, you need to leave by this time >> and the decision's final. You cannot let her back in. She needs to figure it out.

She needs to spread her wings and fly."

>> Okay? >> And there's going to be backlash. The end of the >> What is What is she going to do when you tell her this?

>> Well, she will probably yell or she will probably cry or she may just stomp out the door and say, "You'll never see me again." >> Okay. Well, that's her choice, though.

52 52 years old. If she does that, then

she You're just going to have to let her do that because that's the behavior of not a 52year-old. I practically speaking, Carol, here's exactly what I would do. You and your husband, I would sit down tonight. Um maybe when you get off this call, you and him huddle up and say, "Here's what I heard on the call.

Here's what we're going to do." You're going to sit down and you're going to say, "Uh, daughter, this has been this has gone on long enough. We have decided that you are moving out. Not that we want you to move out, not that we need you to move out. Say it clear.

We've decided that you are moving out and you're going to move out at the end of the month and you're going to move into your own place.

I'm not saying you have to put her on the street. Do you know if she has any money? Because if you if you know that you know that she has zero dollars, what you and your husband could decide to do is make sure that she at least ends up in a place, right? You can make sure she's there's a place for her to go to and you have it set up that she can go there.

Meaning maybe it's first and last month's rent is paid so she can get into the place, but it's up to her to keep keep the living expenses going. And you let her know that. say we have, you know, and I'm just making this up. We know that you don't have any money, so we're willing to pay first and last month's rent, which is X amount of dollars.

No more, no, you know, no more than that.

up to you. And we have also decided that we're prepared to see this through to the worst extent. We are not it. We're not worried about you becoming homeless.

We're not worried about you not having a place. We're not concerned about that.

We have the full confidence that you can do this. So, please do not come and ask for any money because we will not be giving it to you. And make it so so crystal clear. I love you, but this has to stop for your good and for ours. And that's the conversation. And she's going to yell and kick and scream and you're going to go to bed and you're going to drink a warm glass of milk and you're going to sleep the best sleep of of of your 75 years. [laughter]

This is going to be probably the hardest thing you've ever done in your life, Carol, cuz deep down you love this woman. >> You want what's best for her, and you feel guilty. You feel shame for enabling this behavior and allowing it to happen.

You don't want to see her on the streets and have her life take an even worse turn. But this is the best thing you can do for her because her growth has been stunted for far too long. And if she lives another 30 years, she needs to live it freely with independence, not codependent on mom and dad in their old age. Well, it's for sure. We can Well, we're going to die.

>> We all are, Carol. That's That's good advice. Yeah, it's coming for all of us.

No one escapes it. And so, you need to have a real serious calm conversation telling her, "Here's what's going to happen." >> Does your daughter have any addictions or anything that you think could rear rear its ugly head?

>> Okay. No. >> Has she ever been violent?

>> Uh, when she was a teenager, she been violent. >> Okay. I'm just I'm wondering just for your safety. >> Anything a teenager could do? I I don't think she would. However, she she could be suicidal. She may say, "Okay, there's no point of living. I'll just go end it." >> Is that her doing that just for attention or does she really mean that?

>> She's tried it two or three times.

>> Okay. >> Wow. Um, >> so then making sure you know

>> making sure you know, and I'm sure you've had some sort of counseling on this, what to do in those situations >> and what your role is in those situations. I don't think your role is to let her move in again.

>> I think your role is to get her set up with counseling, right?

>> Yeah. >> And that's the way to do it with kindness. Hey, we're we're going to cover six counseling sessions for you and cover first and last month, but you have 3 days to vacate the premises.

Otherwise, we're going to have to file an eviction and it's going to get ugly.

We don't want to do that, but that would be the next step.

>> Okay? >> And have the non-emergency police line ready to go in case things take a turn.

[laughter] >> I don't know. And so that that's the scary part, the unknown. And it's probably why you've put this off for so long because you don't know what's on the other side of this.

you know, it could get worse before it gets better to die. We we don't want him to get, you know, killed in the streets, >> but we also would like to be have a quiet, peaceful home, >> and that's fine, Carol. You >> It's about time. >> That's totally fine. You're not asking for something crazy. You're not shooting for the stars here. Um, I just I think that for you, your piece in this is just

understanding that your daughter's totally grown and she's going to make decisions that you cannot control and she could make many decisions that you do not like that you don't that you can't control or that you know are bad for her that you can't control. And >> so for you going into this conversation,

as much as you can start to just really

make some peace with that and almost prep yourself for that feeling because something's going to happen that she's going to lash out and you're going to want to do that old familiar song and dance. >> Yeah. Right. >> And she will expect it.

>> And so will you. And it it's it's going to come knocking at the door. And so you're going to have to be prepared mentally and physically. And same thing with your husband because if he folds it's a problem, right? So you guys have

to be >> So he's he is more on this than I am.

>> Okay, good.

>> So you'll have to do your your due diligence to make sure you're loaded for bear when this comes because it's not it's not going to be easy and you know that.

>> And I would warn her, hey, we're going to have a hard conversation tonight.

>> I want to let you know it's going to be uncomfortable, but we need to have it.

Okay. >> That we're not coming in cold, busting in her room, going, "You need to get out yesterday." >> Yeah. Don't do this. That's so good, George. Don't do this out of anger.

Like, if something happens and she comes home tonight and there's an argument, postpone the conversation cuz you can't do this like with a hot head. You have to do this when you're in your most uh

cold state. Like there's there's Yeah, you're zen. >> Oh, good luck. This is not not I don't envy you in having this conversation, but it's so hard because you can't control the past. You regret it. You can control what you do now, but then you can't control how they react and what they do next. >> And that's the hard part. You're like, I want them just to go get a job, start paying rent, and have a great life.

>> Yes. >> But that part is not up to you.

>> You know what? Ah, Christian, send her a copy of my book, What Noone Tells You About Money. It's not a money conversation, but you will love Carol the chapter on guilt and shame.

Especially when it's about something that someone thinks you did not do, even

though you know you're doing the right part, it'll help you

[music]

[music]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. All right, guys. Let me tell you a little something about our tax pros. Do you have the sheet, George? I was about to read it. Okay, >> maybe they just gave it to me. I'm special. I'm not. Okay, >> I found it. You want to You want to tag team this with me? Is that what you want to do? Okay, I'll read the first one.

George, I don't know if you know this, but one of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. >> Absolutely. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year.

>> That's right. So go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. So so important. >> Speaking of team, what a great team we just made. >> Peanut butter and jelly. [laughter] >> I love it. Ryan in Columbus, Ohio is up next. Hey Ryan.

>> Hey, how are you?

>> Hey, my question is related to starting

a small business. I am 23 years old. I have my own auto repair shop. I've been running it for approximately a year. here. I set up the business in January of 2025. Um, the thing I'm running into

now is I started out in a very small one

bay garage building. Um, I've got a

single service bay, very small space. I did that all with cash. That was my goal out uh without borrowing anything. Now I'm running into the issue of I've got

customers that I'm losing their work

because they don't have the space and efficiency to get it through because of you know I tear some apart I got to get it out before I can get something else in. You know that kind of thing. Um >> and uh and so I'm wondering at what point the balance is between gaining

efficiency and borrowing to do so. I I'm

trying not to borrow, but I'm lo I feel like I'm really losing efficiency and traction because of it. >> What would it take What would it take financially to expand in cash?

>> Well, I've I've got the end of 2025, I

was able to to mostly cash flow uh the

shell of a building that's going to be a three bay shop building. Um it's all it is on my own property, so I own the land. There's no additional uh lease or anything like that. Um I I had a contractor put it up that cost me about $30,000 in the building package. It's just the shell, just very basic shell um of a building. >> What about the rest of it sitting there like that? >> If I had another maybe 30 to 40 that

would get it insulated, heated ready to

go uh to be able to make money out of

it. >> What are you taking home from the business every month? [clears throat] >> Last year I basically didn't pay myself.

I was living off of personal savings for uh my personal bills. Um that of course

only lasted for a certain amount of time. This year my goal is to pay myself approximately $3,000 a month. Um and that's what I have it set up uh for this year. Last year I paid myself like $6,000 out of the business.

>> Are you working full-time on top of this?

>> No, no, this is my full I quit my full-time job December of 2024.

>> That's awesome. >> Okay. But you've made $6,000.

>> That was what I paid myself as a salary.

>> Yeah. You made I'm telling you, you made $3 an hour doing this last year. Do you understand the math on this?

>> No. So, let me be clear. So, I I was only working full-time for myself. I was doing some other part-time gigs at the beginning of the year as work picked customer work picked up. The business itself had a gross revenue uh with customer work of $120,000 last year. and

the net or the the gross profit I should say after cost of goods sold and labor cost um was about 80,000 >> that's how you were able to do the three bay deal and all that >> correcting all the pay personal salary correct but that can't go on forever obviously this year I'm hoping to to actually create a sustainable salary for myself >> how long will it take

you if you pay yourself that 3k a month how long will it take you to take some of the earnings out of the business and save up Well, the 40,000, but what I really want to ask is, and I'm sure you've turned this around every which way, is there a way that you can get that three bay uh

shell? What's the least amount of work that you need to do on it? Just so you can get in there >> and get some business and garage I could

put concrete and garage doors in for probably around 20 20 to 25.

>> Okay. How long would it take you to get that? me till the winter.

>> Uh, so that would probably take me

that's probably going to take me, you know, maybe the next 6 months, I want to say, before I could comfortably feel like I could write those checks.

>> Okay. So 6 months gets us kind of 6 months gets us a platform and the doors that we need. And after you have that installed, would you be able to do a little bit of work out of a little bit of business out of there?

>> I would be able to move my main operations into there. It would just be that within a couple of months after that I would be needing insulation and heat which is kind of like where the rest of the >> Well, that's great comes in. >> But at least you could start making money out of it >> tight.

>> The point is you could at least start making money out of it so you're not having to turn away business in 6 months >> plus plus actual work, right?

>> And then I feel like once I've got some more space, it's going to be more equipment and more all that stuff that's going to be, you know, that's where the thousands and thousands add up. Would would that be uh just something that I would just I know I know Dave says about being on the cover of Slow magazine and that's really what I feel like right now. >> Means you're doing it right. >> You're doing the the next smallest step that you can take.

So right now and you tell me if I'm wrong, but the the the the next baby step is I'm going to spend 20 to 25 doing the garage and the doors and I'm going to kind of move everything over there. Now I can start taking on more customers. Now I have more cash flow coming in. So, I should be able to pretty quickly add the insulation.

And now that's going to create a better environment for everybody. I can keep I've now tripled the amount of work I'm doing cuz I have three spaces now. And now I can keep going. And you should be able to whatever the you know, machinery and things you need.

The more that you're doing is the more money that you'll come in to be able to do, if that makes sense. Mhm. I'm just worried right now I'm losing business because I'm not able to, you know, get stuff in fast enough for people.

>> Not going to hurt me long term.

>> But it's not [laughter] going to hurt you long term cuz you're going to do this in 6 months. So, you've got 6 months to kind of grit it out. And I mean, there might be some solutions that you can figure out in the in the short term. Um, but understanding that I'm

kind of having this short-term suffering, which is, uh, I hate the feeling of turning business away, but also knowing that in six months you're not going to have to do that.

>> And there's no payments to be made and no debt to pay off, which just increases if >> everything would fold up or if I would break my leg or something, you know, that it wouldn't be eating me up on payments while I'm not able to produce an income or that. You're just adding risk to the equation if everything else would pull out. You're not going to be gaining. >> I am making money.

Yeah, I feel like I'm making money on how to fix cars. It's just that it's very very slow because everything costs a lot. >> So, what's your what's your you tell us what you want to do?

What's your gut telling you to do?

>> I don't want to borrow money.

>> Then don't. There's no You said at the beginning of the call, I I want to try to not borrow money. Instead, rephrase it. I'm not going to borrow money. I will move at the speed of >> I feel like everybody in my industry I feel like everybody in my industry is making payments on everything and I feel like I'm kind of the slow dog.

>> That's fine. You read you ever read The Tortoise in the Hair? Reread it tonight.

It'll be a good reminder.

>> It's one of Dave's favorite books cuz here's the thing. It's really hard to fall flat on your face and have this business fail if there's no debt attached to it. What you're really buying is freedom >> even though it's going to take more time and it's moving slower and the guy next door is crushing it because he's got a bunch of payments and he's it's working for him. But man, you are a soloreneur

and I can't tell you how many small businesses fail because they're overleveraged and they thought they'd have the customer base. They thought they would make money and the lender doesn't freaking care. They want their payment every month regardless if your business succeeds or fails.

>> And I think I'm 23. You haven't been an adult long enough to to be learn patience yet. So that's probably >> Well, no, you have. You have.

I'm going to tell you right now when you called in, Ryan, and you told us what you did, I was immediately impressed, which George knows it's hard to for me to feel impressed. >> Jade, am I anyone?

you already are patient. I think what's happening is what happens to all of us,

which is you kind of had your, you know, like horses, they wear the thing around their eyes so that they can't see to the right or left so they don't get spooked.

You know what I'm talking about?

>> I think that that I think the blinder came off and you look to the right for a second and it spooked you and you're like, "Oh, maybe I'm not doing it right.

Maybe I need to go on another path. Maybe I need to you need to put your blinder back on and keep focusing on your business. What you've done is working. You're so successful that you can't keep every you can't take all your customers. You're so successful.

>> Problem. Now's not the time to go do something else and go into debt. Now's the time to keep steady. Keep going on your path. What got you the the the business you have is who you are. You're great at fixing cars. You do what you say you're going to do, right? Let that follow you into this next phase of your business.

[music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Wy 5. Hey, you don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever.

Y Refi helps borrowers take back control with affordability refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

And remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Glenn in Virginia. I've been looking at my credit report to make sure I'm including everything I need to pay off in my debt snowball. If an account is listed as closed but still shows a balance, do I still owe that money? If so, should I call them and set up plans to repay what I owe?

Good question. Well, closed just means the the account is no longer active. So, if you closed it with a balance, that's a normal thing to do. It may have been, you know, charged off in collections.

Um, but you want to look for those key phrases. Paid in full would be a nice key phrase to see that it's actually paid. So, you likely still owe them

money. Closed with a balance does not mean it's been forgiven. It just means it's not active there. So, I would call them and set up plans to repay what you owe because you likely do.

>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. Definitely. And doing the doing it based on your credit report.

That's a good place to start cuz sometimes there are things that are active actively holding a balance, I should say, that you don't know about it cuz maybe you moved or they stopped sending you notices or it went to your spam account. Anything like that is possible >> and it's a good you can check it for free. Never pay for this. You can go to a website annualcreditreport.com and pull it from all three credit bureaus without paying a dime and it's worth doing.

>> Very very good. Let's go to Victor in Chicago, Illinois. I love that name, Victor. What's up?

>> What's wrong? >> Hello.

>> You're welcome. Um so I am currently in

uh 50 like 50k a little bit over 50k in

debt uh with credit cards uh personal

loan and a vehicle.

>> Okay. Um, so my question is

how smart or dumb would it be for me to

close like not close out but take out a

big chunk of my 401k which is about 62,000 to pay out most of my debt.

>> It would be a mistake.

>> From the smart to dumb spectrum, it's as pretty much as far as you can get on the dumb side. The idea of paying off the debt is not dumb, but doing it in that way to George point George's point is would not be a smart avenue. >> Now, go ahead, George. >> I would just I want you to think about what's actually happening here because a lot of people just go, "Well, I can break into the piggy bank in case of emergency." But here's what actually happens when you pull 50k out.

It's more like 75 and 90K because you have a 10% early withdrawal penalty. So 50k, you pay $5,000 right there.

to net 50k you'd have to pull out 65 or 70 plus that money is now pulled out forever and if you pop in 50 grand how old are you? >> 38 >> 38 from 38 to 68 that 30-year gap of

that 50k growing for you would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so you didn't make a $50,000 mistake you made one with a lot more zeros on the end. And so you're robbing from your future to pay for a current to put out a current fire. And so there's better ways to do it.

So let's get into the better way. Are you with me that you're not going to do this? >> Yes. >> Hallelujah.

Okay. [laughter] >> Yes. >> So what is the 50k in debt? Break it down.

32 left to pay off.

>> 32,000 or 3,200?

>> 32,000. >> Okay. >> To pay off. Um, and uh, credit cards add

up to about 10 10,000 and the rest is

the car. >> Okay. How much do you make a month?

>> Uh, roughly about fivek.

>> Okay. So, we're bringing home 60k. We

got 50k in debt. And so, this is a a math problem to solve, which is we need more income and we need to cut down our expenses down to the bone. So the question is what caused you to to get here? What did you spend the money on from these personal loans and credit cards? >> So the first I I uh racked up the credit

the credit cards uh credit cards between um like regular credit cards and then I

consider Afterpay and Clar all that also credit cards. Why were you spending that because you're trying to survive and your budget is not getting you enough money or tell

me tell me what caused that.

>> It was uh wants >> uh fast uh if I didn't have the the

liquid cash it would be the fastest way to get it and pay off a little bit little by little. Uh but it it had racked up. So I took out a personal personal loan um to clear all of that

and so took out the loan and didn't

didn't stop the spending. >> Yeah. So another great reason not to take the 401k loan because we've already learned that that method of kind of taking a loan to pay off debt doesn't work, right? >> Yeah. So George and I are going to suggest a way that's really going to cure your behavior because it's going to cause you to have to make real changes,

really feel things, therefore kind of learning your lesson the old-fashioned way, which is I get a consequence and it doesn't feel good. I don't know. I probably shouldn't say this, but back in my day, we used to get spankings when we did things wrong and it hurt. It's It

hurt. It was like, oh my gosh. and you cry and you make sure that from now on you're back home before the street lights come on. And so that's kind of what this is going to do to you is you're going to feel like, man, I never want to do that again. It's going to feel like discipline for you to do this.

So, >> okay, >> George is right. Income uh is the main deal here. There's really two parts to this equation. It never changes, Victor.

You need to cut back and you need to increase income simultaneously. Both of those things. How much is your rent?

Uh 1,00. >> Okay, great. I'm glad to hear that. So for you, it is like bare bones. It's just you, no wife, no kids. In my mind,

if I'm you, >> I am going down to >> nothing. All right. I'm cutting everything out. The memes uh used to say disappear for a while and then and then you come back debtree. That's you.

You're disappearing. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then in the meantime, you're working like Michael Jackson said, day and night.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What can you do? What What are some Tell me, list off a couple of ideas that you can do for work so I know that you get it. >> Uh well, I'm I'm a very handyman, so I could definitely do some side side gigs with when it comes to like uh like

construction. >> Great. I can really get my hands on if I

could get a job doing something, I could do it pretty much other than tech. I'm not good at tech. >> Okay, awesome. Can >> Can you advertise that? Can you get on Thumbtac? Can you get on uh a Facebook group?

>> Yeah, I could probably do that.

>> Yeah, do that immediately. And And I would start in my circle. If you go to a buddy's house and you realize something's wrong, say, "Oh, I'll do that. I'll charge you 50 bucks." Go to your parents house. the the fence is broken, say, "Oh, I'll fix that at 75 bucks." Start marketing your talents and just start noticing stuff and just start telling folks, "You'll fix it for this amount." Okay. In the meantime, and then

get get on one of those sites. Uh f What

are the different I'm thinking Thumbtac Fiverr. I've used all those different all those different apps where you can rabbit. That's another one. >> Uhuh. Where you can put your your things out there. And here's the thing. You need to make a goal. I want you to go on Every Dollar Tonight. If you don't have it, Christian will pick it up and we'll give it to you. And I want you to plot out with what you're making now. Do do the the part in there that's going to uh tell you how long it's going to take.

So, you'll fill out the you'll fill out the onboarding there, and it's going to tell you at your current pace, it's going to take this long. And it's going to suggest a bunch of things for you to do, Victor, to find stuff. Get the side hustle, pause all investing, which please tell me you will pause all investing down to zero.

And so that means like no contributions to the 401k. >> Yeah. Zero. What that's going to do is free up more money to go toward the debt. We need to focus on one thing right now and that is becoming debtree and staying debtree.

>> And so all of this together is going to help you. We're going to do the debt snowball. Smallest to largest balances.

Attack the little one with everything you got. Minimum payments on the rest.

And here's the math on it. The napkin math says if you can put a little over two grand a month towards your debts, you're debtree in less than two years.

>> Okay? >> So that's the plan. I know that sounds like forever and you want the shortcut of just knocking it out now, but you're just trading one debt for another right now. And so that's we can't look to debt to be the solution anymore. You are the solution. Your future income, anything you have in savings above a thousand bucks, anything you can sell, all of your talents and skills put to good use.

That's what's going to get you there, man. We're rooting for you. >> Yeah, you can do this. Call us back and tell us when you're debtree.

>> [music]

>> Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair's Credit Union studio. George, are you ready to get to another call?

>> I don't know how I could be more ready, truthfully. >> Well, I'm pretty ready. And this person is is in Austin, Texas. Sydney is on the line. Hey. Hey, Sydney. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You bet. >> I just I just wanted to make sure that we're on the right track um with the amount of money we're making, saving, investing, and still feeling like we have money to spend on the things that we want and not eagerly waiting for payday. >> Oh, okay. Tell us more about your situation.

Um, so I just downloaded every uh every

dollar this month 2026 getting on our on

our uh budgeting and I plugged in all of our bills and all the things that we want to spend money on and there seems to be quite a bit left over yet the past especially the past six months uh the past year really we just eagerly waiting for payday. >> Okay. What do you >> So, in reality, you're paycheck to paycheck, but on paper, in every dollar, it's like, hey, you should have $8,000.

Well, you know, you're like, what? Where is this going? >> That means you're just not sticking to the numbers.

>> Yeah, we're not sticking to the numbers.

And we do put away a little bit in savings. We do have quite a bit in savings, but is not as much as we would hope considering how much money we make.

>> How do you make?

>> So, this this information just became privy to me. Um, my husband's been taking care of the finances up until now, but he is seeing that I cannot budget if I do not have the information.

So, he helped me out setting up the Every Dollar app, putting in his income, and I pay all of the bills, and I do all that kind of thing with the shared money, but I make sure all the bills are paid. Okay. >> I think it's about 40 about 40k a month.

>> $40,000 a month. So, you're talking like half a million dollar take-home >> a year. Yeah. Wow. Some months it's a little less, some months it's a little bit more. >> I was not expecting that with the way this call was set up. I'm not going to lie.

>> Okay. So 40,000 a year is a lot. I just I think America's going I wouldn't know how to spend $40,000 a month if you gave it to me. >> Yeah. What's your mortgage? What's your mortgage pay on to my every dollar and you could check how I spend it. >> You should DM it to Jade and I just for fun cuz we we have a dark curiosity. We want to know how you would even do that.

>> Listen, if you did, we would look at it.

>> So tell us tell us tell us the biggest

>> tell us a couple of the biggest line items on your budget. I'm guessing there's a house. I'm guessing.

>> Well, we try to put away about 12K, maybe like between 10 and 12 for taxes every month just to make sure that that's in an account. So when that happens, we're not like scrging. So that we do put away. >> So that's not actual income then.

>> Yeah. No, we put away Oh, yeah. But that's before taxes. >> Oh, okay. So after taxes, it's closer to 28,

>> I guess. So >> Okay. So in every dollar you're going to list takehome pay. Is that what you did or did you list the gross amount?

>> No, I listed the gross and then I put in as a category taxes.

>> Got it. Okay. Okay. It may be helpful for your, you know, sake to to do it the other way. But if you're taking if the gross money shows up in the account, that's what you're budgeting off of. So that makes sense. >> Yeah. Because the gross will show up at our account and then we take care of paying paying taxes quarterly.

>> Okay. Fantastic. And then how much is your mortgage every month?

>> So we have a rent is 3,300 a month.

>> Fine. >> Okay. any debts,

>> a little bit of credit cards for just the last couple of months being lazy to pay it off. And we want to put a lot of money into savings so we don't end up paying the credit card. Not much, maybe 16K at most. And if we really wanted to, we could pay it off. We just we want to make sure we're on the right track and really start budgeting. >> Did I'm sorry, can I go back a second?

Did I hear you say you rent?

>> Yes, we rent. >> Uh why? How long have you been making this money?

um this money about a year for the year before that it was clo it was also good.

I'm yeah we've been married four years so it's been it's been getting better every couple years. >> Okay. But you've been six figures for upper six figures for quite a while.

>> We've always been six figures. Um upper six figures. Yeah. For quite a while.

>> I understand the renting part >> right quick. I'm just >> Location Location is very important to us. Um, when we first moved here to Texas, uh, the company was paying our rent, so we're like, great, pay our rent. Um, and now they're not no longer, but we still want the location is very important, and we're looking for a house.

We're looking. >> Okay. So, sorry, that was just a squirrel I needed to chase. Okay.

Um, continue, George. You got a train of thought.

>> Mhm. >> That feels >> Yeah. And we have quite a bit in savings. We How much have quite a bit in the stock market?

>> I'm not 100% sure. My husband has uh access to that account, but he has I think he put 30K into the market in the last couple months and he's got to have about 60 or 70K in his s in his high yield savings account. >> Okay. So, I'm picking up on another issue here.

I know you called about one thing, but part of the issue is you don't have the transparency you need to know what's actually going on. It sounds like you asked for that so you can make the budget, but you really do, Sydney, need to know all of these numbers. Um, so that you both can live in a state of reality with your money instead of guessing. It's hard to be in reality when you're guessing.

>> If one hand doesn't know what the other's doing, you're going to always have this problem and keep living in the cycle. >> You both have to be on the same page with full accountability and transparency. So, that's step one. And then, do you have any other debts outside of the credit card?

Any car payments, student loans?

but yeah, we have leases, but we don't intend to own a car.

>> What are they? What are the leases?

>> So, I drive a 20 2025 U minivan, and that's 8.93 a month. Um, it's important

to my husband that I'm in a reliable vehicle every couple years, and he drives a Range Rover for just under 3K a

month. >> Goodness gracious. >> So, let me go back to the minivan talk.

Um, so basically what you're saying is that 99% of the population is not in a

reliable vehicle if they don't switch it out every three. No, no, I didn't say that. She does. >> Right. But my point is to call out the ridiculousness of that statement. And therefore, that means that you know it too. Plenty of people buy a car. Even if

you bought a brand new car and you just drove it until, you know, I don't know, for 10 years until you whatever, that would be more reasonable than the statement that was said.

>> You guys are dropping four grand a month to rent cars >> and you're prepaying all the depreciation.

>> Exactly. >> So, that's part of the problem. I think that's a a a microcosm of a bigger

problem here, which is you guys, you make great money and you want to show it off, right? There's some flaunting here.

And the truth is, you could save up and buy these things outright and it would still be okay. But we haven't actually we don't have the discipline. We have the savings muscle there cuz he can shovel money away in other places, but you guys are totally okay taking on debt and payments because you can stomach it right now. >> Yeah.

I wonder why I wonder why there's the aversion because I agree 100% with George. You guys make good money. If you want nice things, have at it. You don't have a ton of debt.

But leasing is crazy. You could have literally bought both of these vehicles outright and nobody would have said a word to you. We would have been like, "Great, >> that's awesome." And it would have been yours and you wouldn't have been paying out outrageous interest and all these things on this.

There's the two leased cars. Anything else?

>> Um, nothing. Oh, uh, the only other significant uh is I have a lady that comes help me with my kids and with the cleaning. >> Sure. And I'm when I put it into every dollar, I put in $2,000 a month. But between you and me, it's usually a little bit more because it's five o'clock and she just stays extra. And I pay her I more. >> Okay. So call it three.

>> So on the on the budget, here's what I think you need to do, Sydney. So when you make the first budget, it's a guess, right? It's I think it's this. I think it's that. I don't know if you've actually gone back and I I'm not sure how long you've been on a budget, but if I were you, I tonight, [music] I would go back and download some old bank statements and really see here's

what I actually spent. Add up what you spent on on food. Add up what you spent on, you know, Door Dash. Add up what you spent on housekeeping. Add up add up those [music] actual numbers and plug them in every dollar. Then you're going to have what's called an accurate budget of what you spend. Then you can decide what makes sense to cut back on. And that's honestly all you need to do is cut back on frivolous spending.

[music]

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

George, I want to come back real quick and talk about the last call that we got because it dawned on me, you know, they were renting their entire lifestyle.

>> [music] >> They were renting their home, renting their cars. And it's very hard to build

wealth if you don't at some point lock in and make yourself a owner of the

things that are in your life. We talk all the time about renting is okay uh for a certain period of time. Obviously, you rent and it buys you time to be able to buy. That's it's not throwing money down the drain or anything like that, but just be careful. uh things like leases, guy, leases are the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. It

is like you said, George, you are renting a car. And if you're out here

trying to do anything that we teach, if you have a lease, that needs to be the first thing that you look at. I mean, >> well, and and the other problem is it's really hard to get out of these things.

>> Very hard. >> I mean, you got to get the buy. You have to have the entire amount in full to get out of a lease. Yes.

You can't just like put extra on it and get out. That's the awful part. And good luck trying to get someone to take over your lease. You got to find someone who's real boneheaded to do that.

>> So, it's it really is one of the biggest traps people fall for. And who falls for it the most? High earners. Because they want to look good.

>> Yeah. And and they end up paying ridiculous. Obviously, leases don't have uh interest. The way we think of it is it's cost of capital >> baked into your payment.

>> Yes. >> To look good driving the Range Rover.

So, Here's the here's the key. Instead of looking wealthy, you want to actually be wealthy. And instead of just looking like you have nice things, actually have nice things by owning it outright.

Building equity towards owning the home, paying cash for that car if you can actually afford it. But instead, we want to shortcut our way and just, well, we can have it right now. It's kind of like a petulant toddler who just like, I can't wait. I got to have it now or else I'm gonna throw my tantrum.

>> Yeah, >> I work I work really hard. I deserve it.

Those are the three two most dangerous words in the English language. I deserve I deserve. >> Oh yes, I write. I have a whole chapter on that and in and what no one tells you about money. So the point the moral of the story guys is exactly what George said. Don't be fake rich. Be real rich.

Especially when you have real money to be real rich. All right, let's go to Kyle in Chicago, Illinois. What up, Kyle? >> Hi. Uh, thanks for having me on the show. Uh my question today is uh should

I cash out my whole life policy?

>> Short answer, yes. Let's talk about it though. Tell us tell us more about your situation.

>> I started it back uh December 2014.

>> The total value to Yeah.

>> You're behind that.

>> Who hated you enough to sell you that policy? Was it an old college buddy?

>> No, it was my wife's cousin.

>> Oh, even worse. [laughter] That's blood, man. That's dark stuff.

>> On top of that, a year later, uh, I saw him at Christmas and he said, "Yeah, I quit that company because they were making me sell things I didn't believe in." >> I hate to ask, but how much money have you poured into this thing since 2014?

And how much is cash value at this point? >> Okay. Uh, as of now, $69,000 I've paid

in. >> Oh boy. And what's your cash value?

>> 59,000. >> Oh, brutal.

Okay. So, you know, you need to surrender the policy. So, what's the what's the question behind the question?

>> Uh, so based off the chart that they sent me, I'm on year 12.

Based off the chart, it looks like on year 15 would be my break even point.

>> Wow. So, you want to keep >> three more years. could uh well that's why I called in and asked you guys but >> what's the death benefit?

>> Uh half a million. >> Oh my god. >> Goodness gracious. You could have got that with term life for like pennies on the dollar. >> Yeah. It wasn't until I started listening to Dave Ramsey that I knew I screwed up. >> Yeah. Well, it's okay. We're not here to shame you. Like tons of people fall for this stuff. Do you want to shout out the name of the company that he left?

>> Uh I'd rather not. >> Okay. Just making sure. Just want to let you, you know, vent if you want to vent.

All right. So, I would surrender the policy. What you're experiencing right now is some cost fallacy. You're like, "Well, I already put this much in. If I stick with it just a little bit longer, three more years of payments, I can break even." I would take the loss and go, "Hey, that sucked. It was a hard lesson to learn." The good news is you sound like a young upstanding guy with a great income. So, you're still going to be able to build wealth. So, chalk it up to a hard lesson that was learned here.

>> Okay. What do you make? >> Oh, go ahead. Mhm. Uh, so my wife and I make $160,000 a year.

>> Fantastic. >> Uh, >> what do you make personally?

>> I make 80. >> Okay, great. So, you need a policy worth

10 to 12 times your annual income. So, you're already low on the death benefit even with this super expensive, crappy policy. So, I would number one get term life insurance in place first before you surrender the whole life policy >> so that there's no lapse in life insurance.

>> And so, Keep going. >> Uh the next part was about two years ago. I called and asked about uh cashing

out the policy and they offered a cash

value plus a term life.

Like they would take the difference of what a term life would be. >> I'm not doing any more business with this company. >> Okay? >> They can't be trusted to offer you any product. >> It's been 20 years of pain.

>> So I would contact Xander. That's who I have my term life insurance policy through. You can call them at 800356-4282 or jump on Xander.com and get a quote.

You can actually do a lot of these online. Like for you, you need a let's say million-doll policy, 10 to 12 times your annual income. And you can do that with no medical exam. Do it completely online and you're in good shape. You sound healthy.

>> Well, thank you. [laughter] >> And how old are you?

>> Uh 36 years old. >> Okay. Same age as me. So likely your policy isn't going to be that much for a million dollar policy. It's going to be you're going to be like, "Wow, what a discount I just got after paying this whole life premium for 11 years." >> And so it is worth it. You're going to get double the coverage for a fraction of the price you were paying. >> You can turn around and invest that difference on your own in actual good,

>> you know, mutual funds.

>> Likely 1 to 3% is what people see the return on their whole life policy.

>> One to three. You could literally do better in a high yield savings account.

That's truly what we're saying.

>> Yeah. >> So, step one, term life. Step two, surrender. And you'll get some cash value out of it. What will you get at the end of the day? Have you looked into it? >> Uh, I'd get $60,000 if I cashed out

today.

>> I'd take that. >> Yeah, take that. >> Do you have any debt? Do you have any uh >> I have uh mortgage only debt and it's $60,000 is what we owe.

>> I love this. This is more than coincidence, my friend.

>> That feels like a divine appointment.

>> So, you're telling me by like the end of next week, you could be completely debtree, house and everything, and not have a whole life policy.

>> Yeah. And I guess the next question is, my interest rate is only 2.1%.

>> Who cares, dude? Do you What's your mortgage pay?

>> Pay off the house. >> Yes. Pay off the house.

>> Uh 1,200 a month.

>> Okay. You want to do some some fun math?

Do you have do you have any money in retirement right now?

>> Yeah, me and my wife have $270,000

in retirement savings and I'll have a pension when I retire. I hope. >> That's so awesome. Fantastic.

>> If you did nothing, if you don't invest anything except that mortgage payment, you would have $5.3 million between the two of you at 62. If you just invest the 1,200 bucks, you don't do anything else.

>> I like that math. >> And so, you're already doing more than that. So, I'm not worried about, well, it's 2%. Who cares at this point, dude?

You are on your way to building serious wealth. And you can't put the psychological piece into a spreadsheet.

And it's so hard for me to explain because I'm the guy who paid off his low interest mortgage. And everyone's like, "Why would you do that?" And now it's becoming a trend. Everyone's like, "Well, I paid it off cuz I wanted the peace of mind. And if something happens, you don't have to worry about it.

And if you lose income, you don't have to think about it. You just have more flexibility and options.

>> Yeah. >> You wouldn't do that, would you?

>> No. >> Right. >> So, I don't think the spread is worth it on keeping the mortgage. And uh I would

just try to stomach the sunk cost fallacy and go, "Man, I got screwed by someone that I trusted by a company that essentially felt like a scam." And you learned your lesson. 36 is actually early. A lot of people >> We've all done crap like this, Kyle.

Just so you know. >> You got a lot of life ahead [laughter] of you. You guys are going to build outstanding levels of wealth. I have no fear. So, call up Xander. Get on the website. Get that term life policy in place. For anyone that has anyone depending on them, you need term life.

10 to 12 times your annual income. A 15 to 20 year term is what makes sense for most people. It's so affordable knowing that your family is covered. >> Yeah. And just remember, term life insurance, guys, it's not a baby step.

It's not something you do once you hit some point. You do it immediately. I don't care if you're in baby step one. If folks are depending on your income, you need life insurance and you need it today.

[music]

How many of you are ready for a fresh start with money this year? Maybe you want to pay off debt or start saving for retirement. And those are great goals, but you're also probably thinking, "Well, sure, Rachel, but with what money? My budget is so tight as it is." Listen, I hear you, but you can do more with your money this year.

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[music]

>> [music] >> Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show.

Back to the phone lines we go. Phillip in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Phillip.

>> Hey guys, how are y'all? Thank you for taking my call and thank you to this call screener for doing the same thing.

>> Well, you bet. Christian is the best in the biz. >> Look at this. Shout out to Christian.

They don't get enough love. They're really doing the work on the front lines. >> Listen, we got to protect us. >> Yes, they you do. You do lots of work and we're grateful to everybody in the booth.

>> Hearts. >> How can we help, Philip?

>> Well, guys, this is a hard question because there's probably some emotion involved in it. So, um, my wife and I

are on our well, I'm on my second marriage, she's on our third. Um, and for 10 years, we've been living really happy and we're happy now. That's great.

Um, we we took on just before co we

bought a farmhouse.

We paid $71,000 for it. We put 40 in it.

We remodeled the whole thing. We put we put it on the market a year later and

the realtor said, "No, you need to list it for 315." Okay. So, we walked away

with 175K in profit, which was amazing.

We weren't expecting it. we were expecting maybe 50. So, uh, the market's

been great to us. We've we've actually flipped one other home since then, and the one we're in, we've been for four years.

We're thinking about selling it. Um,

and, uh, the house is should sell for around 3:15. Uh, we got a $70,000

helock, a $4,000 personal line of credit, and a truck uh that I bought recently for uh 29,000 is what I owe on it. Um, the new house is on a golf

course in a neighborhood that I always wanted to live in and

it's it's beautiful. It's a French provincial home. My wife loves to decorate. I love to give her a canvas to decorate on. And uh, the house is listed at 724.

We're looking to make an offer on this house that won't exceed 600. And we believe that around 570 is where we would be. Uh, realistically >> 570 as far as a mortgage.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, how much will you do you think you'll get from the proceeds of this house?

>> This one? Uh, the realtor uh he he he's

saying around 315.

>> Okay. >> Is it paid for?

>> Oh, yeah. We owe a $70,000 helock.

>> Okay. So, that's all you owe. You don't have a a traditional mortgage on it.

Correct. Yeah, we paid cash for it and then um we fixed it up with with more cash, but we've had to fix the basement, put in a new heating and air, and then we actually put in some hardwood floors, too. >> Okay. So, after fees, will you walk away with like $300,000? You think?

>> 315. You know, I figured I I figured if

we if we sold it for 315, we paid off the delock, the personal line of credit in the truck, we'd have around 190 uh

left over. >> Okay. And that'll be your down payment >> for the next house. >> That's that's that's fees and everything. Yes. >> And let's say you get this new house.

You think you could get it for 600?

>> I believe that. >> You think they're going to take that low ball? Yeah, that's very low.

>> Well, so it's a 4200 square foot house that was built in the 60s and it's not been remodeled at all. Um, >> has it been on the market a long time?

It's been on the market almost 4 months and um and and you know we're an hour

north of Raleigh so it's not the Raleigh

market. Um the median price per square

foot is around 150 >> okay >> in Henderson. Um

and it's on an acre of land. So it's you know it's a pretty average I think the median pretty well applies. Okay. So, the the short of it is, let's say you got it for 600 and you were able to put 200 down. So, it leaves you with a $400,000 mortgage >> and what is your what's your monthly take-home pay as a household after tax but before other deductions?

>> Um, let's see. So, it's around 7,600

take-home.

Um, but I also have a tax business

uh that I've been running since ' 07. I do around 300 tax returns a year. So,

you know, we we'll probably net around

30,000 from that and then I usually get about a $10,000 bonus every year.

>> Okay. >> As well. >> So, have you done the math on what the mortgage payment would be every month if you got a $400,000 mortgage with today's rates?

>> It's around the 25% mark.

>> Okay. Is that a 30-year though, I'm guessing? >> Yeah, it has. >> Yeah, that's a 30-year. That's not the 15 years it talked about.

>> Okay. Well, our parameter is 15-year mortgage, no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, and you guys, you're you're close. You're on the line. I think you could get there with a little bit of patience uh and saving.

You have a great income. And so, it might just be a little longer. Um and it's hard when you got your sight set on a very specific house. You're like, "This has to be it." It kind of gets you stareyed and causes you to make some bad decisions.

But, I like the overall plan of selling the house, paying off all of your debt, having savings left over plus the down payment. >> How much other savings do you have? What do you have? What others cash do you have?

>> How much is that? >> Um, it's around $2,000.

And um and then I've got a 401k at work,

which can't touch that, you know.

>> Did you say your emergency fund is $2,000?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Um and then and that's the only non-retirement money you have,

>> correct? Yes.

>> Okay.

Yeah. [clears throat] >> Okay. Yeah. I I gotta say I I I love

this plan, but the only thing is I agree with George. I just don't think you're quite ready to make this move. You're talking about making a major move. Um

you've got this debt. The debt will be cleared off. There's no extra money laying around anywhere. This has to for this to work. Everything has to fall perfectly.

You have to get the house for the exact right amount. And what I can tell you is you're emotionally invested. And so if you don't get it for 600, I think you're going to make the offer anyway.

And I think I'm a little worried about that. Uh I'm I think that if they said 680, you'd take it. Or if they said 700,

you'd take it. You see what I'm saying?

And with no money saved, >> yeah, I would want to. >> Your wife has already predecorated this house. That's the problem. And so that's what I'm worried about. And on a 15 year, you're looking at more like a $4,000 mortgage. And so that's the reality here is that it's over half of your take-home pay. And now there's pressure. Now you have to have this side business work out permanently.

>> And so I just don't want this house to go from blessing to burden real quick when you bid off a little more than you could chew >> and when you only have 2,000 saved because then your next order of business really quick would be saving up 3 to six months of expenses because you don't have any saved. >> So what if we cleaned up the debt with future income? Then we got a fully funded emergency fund.

>> Absolutely. >> Now, that looks more like a Oh, this is going to be we're in this house for two more years. That's the the tough reality that the news you got to break to your wife.

>> Well, and and and we're both on the same page with this. We could go either way yet. Yes, she has it decorated, but you know what? The same decorations are in the house we're in right now.

So, that's true. Um, [laughter] >> that's true. >> We're we're we're realistic about it and to be honest, we've been back and forth and back and forth. I've basically done a home inspection on it and everything else.

needs to be fixed. >> Yeah. M. >> So yeah, you you're telling me what I thought you would tell me and what I've >> kind of I guess in my heart felt anyway.

So >> yeah. Well, you guys are doing some good things. We moved backwards by taking on all this debt. And so if you didn't have this debt, you could maybe stomach all this, but right now we got a mess to clean up. We need some savings in the bank. That's how you step into home ownership from a place of strength. It reminds me of a saying. This is an Arabic saying that I heard my mom say.

>> How's it go?

which translates to the camel costs 1 cent and I don't have 1 cent which means I don't care how good of a deal it but Jade it's a great deal it's a once in a-lifetime opportunity and we don't have the money to make this make sense >> I just love that it's a camel it's the perfect saying >> I know my last name is camel that's just how the old Arabic saying goes a lot of camels in the Middle East

>> yes I love it that's great >> sorry you ain't got a penny You can't buy it. I don't care if [laughter] it's borderline free. You can't afford it.

That's a hard lesson to learn. >> That is a hard lesson. >> But those Middle Eastern folk, >> they know what they're talking about. >> They're frugal.

[music]

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[music]

Thanks for hanging out with us. The scripture and quote of the day 1 Corinthians 9:24. Do you not know that in a race all runners run but only one

gets [music] the prize? Run in such a way to get the prize. Amelia Heheart said, "Decide whether or not the goal is worth the risks involved. If it is, stop

worrying, man." >> Oh boy, that's a that's a dark quote from Amelia. >> Oh, I I felt like it was on point cuz I'm thinking about the baby steps. I'm like, when we tell people the baby steps, the number one thing they're trying to assess is, is it going to be worth it? Like, is it going to be worth my sacrifice, my time, my effort, my struggle?

And if you've already decided that it is going to be worth it, just stop worrying. Just stop. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels. But I guess >> Amelia Airheart, I mean, you know, >> she's willing to fall out the sky.

[laughter] >> Really? >> Wow. All right. John in Las Vegas, Nevada. get us back on track, John.

What's going on?

>> Hi. Uh my uh my daughter is in her

sophomore year of college and uh a

couple years back we made a a deal that if she did well in school, we'd we'd pay for uh her housing expenses and ability to go to college if she got a scholarship. Uh she came throwing her in and we've been doing that. However, she keeps making decisions that kind of go against what we're advising her to do.

And my question is I I feel like I'm we might be hurting her more than we're helping her by trying to send her to college and not holding her to to an

accountability standpoint of being, you know, growing up. >> What types of things are is she doing that's um >> not what you want.

So, a while back I I made it well known like tattoos were were not a thing that uh that we approved and and it was one of those deals where we said, "Listen, you know, if you want to get a tattoo, that's on you, but um not while you know, we're paying for your things cuz then I feel like I'm subsidizing it." And so, um you know, she she's come home with numerous tattoos and and then uh I

the last one she came home with, she called me ahead of time knowing that I'd be upset about it. Uh but when uh and I

was glad that she was honest with me. However, she knows that we don't approve of that right now at her age.

>> How old is she? >> The fact that you know uh she's uh just about to turn 20.

>> So, you know, I I it's her body. She can do whatever she wants. tell her. I I just don't feel comfortable with her getting tattoos at that young of an age,

>> you know, where that's kind of a permanent thing for a young >> You said you said two opposing things in

one sentence. You said it's her body, she can do whatever she wants, and then you turned around and said, "But actually, she can't." >> Um, so I think you have to figure out

which one of it it is at for her age.

And then the other question I have just practically is she using the money that you're giving her for tattoos?

>> Well, so that's the part. So we we pay for her uh her housing and then we also pay for her tuition. >> Okay. >> And uh so she she made a decision to do

a trip last year and uh and didn't uh

plan for it correctly and she wound up spending like she needed help on that trip. So part of that is we lowered her her monthly expenses that she gets and so she's covering that for her job and then um you know she uh she that and

we're basically letting that be the payment. So we're pay giving her less for housing and she covers the difference. >> Is it an apartment or a campus housing?

>> It's a it's an apartment/housing uh campus housing. It's kind of a blend.

Uh, so it was like $1,000 a month and and now we downed it down to 800 so she can pay back over a year the amount of money that we gave her to to um to [clears throat] live while she was doing her her trip uh to Italy.

>> And so, you know, we're proud of her cuz she paid for the trip for Italy.

>> However, you know, one of the the deals with doing that was listen, we're not paying we're not financing that.

>> How much over how much over did she go on that trip to Italy? Like how much did you need to bail her out?

>> Three grand. >> Yeah, that's a lot. Um >> yeah, and we were on top of it, we were on a trip in Europe, so we spent a whole bunch of money for our, you know, our trip that we were super excited about doing for us and then we're having to come out of pocket. So like, you know, it kind of put us in a bad position.

>> How are you guys covering her tuition and housing? Is this from a college savings account or just cash flow or or normal savings? >> No, that that would have been that would have been a lot smarter when I was younger, but you know, we're we're doing very well. Well, financially between my wife and I, we make about 220,000 a year. >> Awesome. So, you just How clear was it that tattoos equals we're cutting you off? Or was this just a separate preference? Like, hey, I don't want you getting tattoos.

>> It was separate. But when she got in the argument with me about it, I said, listen, we're we're paying for you to go to school, and all that is money that

you're not having to spend to go to school, right? So, we're we're trying to set her up as much as possible. And and my view on it is I I don't believe in making permanent, you know, markings on your body until you're until you're

fiscally responsible for yourself. And then if you want to do that, you can do that. But also maybe be a little bit older so you can make wise choices instead of a, you know, 19, 20 year old, you know, putting things in their body that don't necessarily >> This is a 20-year-old decision. And, you know, it is a preference.

There's no moral failure here. I personally, if I'm dad, I get you being upset. I get the disrespect, but I would not cut off her college funding. If you want to tie it to something, I would tie it to grades, attendance, legal behavior, you got to finish in four years, all of that.

But this is just a separate issue, and now we're trying to hold weaponize her college funding to get her to stop. What you can say is, hey, any future tattoos needs to come out of your money from your job. We're going to send this money directly to the landlord, directly to the school.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, and and we haven't been doing that. So, we we've been purposely having her pay everything out of her account. We fund it and then she makes the payments to those things. However, like I said, she she just quit her job >> without having another one lined up and she doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get another job and she's having her boyfriend pay for everything. And we're just we're just going like, "Hey, that's not a wise that's not wise decision-m.

You don't you don't do things like that without having other things lined up, you know?" And >> Yeah. So, we're we're just concerned that she's not she's not making uh we

the whole thing we're doing is trying to develop her to learn how to handle money and make good decisions and we feel like

often we're really bankrolling her bad decisions and that's what we're worried about. >> I kind of hear two things at play and I'm going to caveat this John by saying my kid I almost wish Dave was on cuz my kids are young. They're five and seven.

I've not been in your shoes. So, I'm literally just listening and what I'm doing is thinking back to when I was in college. So, that's where this is based from. Just so you know, I'm kind of hearing two things go on.

I'm kind of hearing a uh [sighs] a a concern about how she's handling her money, but I'm also kind of hearing a a power struggle of she's getting older. She's making choices. You don't agree with them, which you have the right to not agree with them, but there's also this part of she's just going to make choices. And some of them you're just going to have to let her make, I think.

Um, let's deal with the money part.

inclined to say, you know what, you had the luxury of having this kind of off-campus hybrid. I think that we're not going to do that because you haven't been able to kind of hold up your end of the bargain. So, you can do the normal campus housing and if you get a job, we're open to you doing the hybrid thing where you have the apartment, but you'll have to pay for it. You could totally do that.

Plenty of kids go to school and they live in onampus housing and they don't get the the fluff. You know what I'm saying? So, you could totally do that. I would probably distance it from this whole tattoo thing so it did not seem like a retaliatory response to the tattoos cuz I actually do think that that's very separate.

But if you do feel like, hey, we're bankrolling her to the extent to which she's not doing a part-time job or some of the things that we talked about her doing from the beginning, I think that that's a fair thing. Now, the other side of it, let's talk about kind of like the tattoos, personal choices with the boyfriend.

I'll be honest, I think it could be one.

I don't know. This is just me speaking from being a a an 18-year-old girl with a dad who was trying to help me with I

feel like if you get too smothering, it could almost have the opposite effect.

>> So I >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Do you know what I mean? So it's almost >> you probably experienced that already. It's like the more you lean in, the more she leans away and now she wants to rebel as as a because she doesn't know how to even handle that and it feels like you're controlling her.

She's a grown woman now. And so th they are two separate issues. And if you want to not feel like you're enabling, you can fund the direct thing you're trying to fund and no more. And now it's on her.

>> And when she needs to get a job cuz she can't buy the thing she wants to buy, she might go into debt. And you hate that cuz like we said, you're not going to go into debt. But at the end of the day, putting her in crippling student loan debt and having her hate you forever, I don't think is the right next [music] step. >> Best of luck, man. That's a tough one.

>> It is a tough one. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us on the Ramsey Show.

If you're wondering where you are on the baby steps, make sure to go to ramseyolutions.com to find out. And as always, there's only one way to ultimate financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 25. Comfort Is The Enemy Of Progress - Attack Your Debt Now! | January 12, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:50:03 |

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. [music] So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel joined by [music] author

Jade Warshaw. We are so excited that you're tuning in today. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

>> [music] >> Annie is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Annie?

Hey, how's it going? Great. How can we help? All right. Yes, sir. Um I've been

uh I have a dilemma. There's a I had an ex-boyfriend years about 5-6 years ago

and we got motorcycles. I sold mine, but we co-signed for each other.

That's true love.

Yeah, right.

But anyway, uh he hasn't made a payment.

I don't care about my credit, but they keep calling and they're like, "It's a binding contract." So, my question is, what do I do? I I haven't seen the bike in over 4 or 5 years. I don't know if he's alive or dead and they've came to my house and

checked, you know, it ain't there. They went to come repo it and then it wasn't there. Yes. Yeah. [clears throat] Okay, here's here's the bad news, Annie. It doesn't matter where that motorcycle is and it doesn't matter if he's dead dead or alive, you owe that debt. That's that

is exactly what co-signing is. It's you taking on that debt cuz they don't trust him to pay and I think they were wise.

How much is it? Okay.

It's like about $10,000.

>> Yikes. And what about your bike? Have you since paid yours off or what happened to the one that that that you guys co-signed together that you that you drove?

Oh, I sold mine. So, yours has been gone. Where are you at financially? Do you have any other debts? Do you have money in savings?

No, I don't have any money in savings.

Uh I've been retired for a year and I'm trying to go back to work right now. So, I'm barely making my bills and I

can't afford to make that. Where's your income coming from? Uh retirement. Like a 401k, social security?

No, I work I work for uh TVC.

So, you have like a pension?

Uh yes, sir. Evidently, yes. It's a

Yeah. So, what is your monthly income as it stands without you going to work?

Uh like 1,600. And what do your monthly bills add up to?

Um >> [snorts] >> More than 1,600?

Yes. Okay. So, are you floating the gap with credit cards?

No, actually I'm married. So, uh

yeah, I got married. So, that's how we do it together. Okay, what's he make every single month?

Uh probably about

17, 18, about 3,000. Okay. And I don't

know. I'm guessing based on the way you're talking, but are you guys combined money or are you separate?

Uh I take care of the bills and he just puts money in my account. So, I take care of all the bills and then he takes care of like his truck and stuff.

>> So, you're you're separate for all intents and purposes. It doesn't sound like >> Does he have savings?

No. Okay.

Well, the best way to do this would be combining your money together to go, "Okay, how are we going to make a plan to pay this old debt off?" Mhm. Now, I don't know if he's willing to do that and it sounds like he doesn't have the ability cuz he's broke, too.

And he's got a truck payment of his own?

No, his truck is paid off, but uh we're trying to uh get him another truck. So, I'm trying to go back to work cuz

his truck is actually broke down and we're trying to fix it.

So, you're trying to pay for the repair or you about to go buy a brand new truck with payments?

Uh Cuz you don't have any money.

Right, right. Well, that's why I need to go to work is so that way we'll have more money on top of that, but his truck is old and he's Well, he's trying to fix it. So, I know that's what our goal is to fix it. >> Well, I I think work is the a great place to go right now to make more money to get us out of all of this. And the motorcycle is old motorcycle debt.

That's just part of the the bigger picture that we need to clean up. What other debts do you have?

Um I have a couple of credit cards. Um

my debt's probably about

10,000.

Well, you got 10,000 just on the motorcycle.

No, no. Yeah, but I'm talking about Yes, I guess I guess 20 about 20,000. Okay. So, here's what I hear. Um and here's a couple of I just want to bullet point this so that you have clear homework for tonight. First things first is tonight

it's it's Friday night here. I know some of you might listen not listen to this till Monday, but I want you to go out

either on a date or tell your tell your husband, "Tonight is date night at the house." And over dinner, I want you to say, "I've really been thinking and I don't feel peace about our finances. I feel stressed. I feel like we're disconnected and I would really love for us to get

aligned financially." I would love to be in a situation where what's yours is mine is and mine is yours and that we really are a unit on this. And I want you to to open up the lines of communication on that.

Tonight's not the night to to create a plan to pay off debt. Tonight is not the night to say it's time to sell a vehicle. Tonight is just the night to say, "Here's Here's what I'm afraid of.

Here's what I've been feeling and here's I would just like to have this intimacy with you where we're one-on-one with our with our money, right?" For you in your own time until the next meeting that you're going to have with your husband, I want you to start writing down debt. Here's all the debt. Here's all my money. And then the next meeting with him, I want you to go with him and say, "I started writing things down.

Here's what I started writing down." Slide it over there and say, "Is there anything you want to add to this list cuz I'm just trying to get my head around this, right?" And and keep that conversation going. That's thing one and

thing two and then you guys can start to

get your head around this. Uh we're going to give you EveryDollar before you get off the phone because the truth is George and I can only talk to you for so long and you're going to need something and someone to walk with you and EveryDollar is going to do that. It'll be like you have George in your pocket.

And so, that's the key to this.

EveryDollar is going to ask questions about you. You're going to answer it and then it's going to tell you the next right step. Uh and in this case, George was right. Money coming in, so income coming in, you getting another job, that's going to be so key.

But then, after you've done the budget, you're going to realize are there some things that we can cut out? Uh what percentage of our take-home pay is is our our our rent or our mortgage, right? You're going to see things that might need to shift. And all that needs to be done together with your spouse.

And I personally call us back. Like call us back and tell us how it goes because there's several steps to this. I would never want you to think it was a light switch that was supposed to happen in one conversation or in one phone call uh to our show. So, keep walking down the road.

Don't get discouraged.

So, so what's the answer even though I don't know where the bike is? I haven't seen it in 5 years. >> You got to stack up the money. You have to at this point assume it as your debt.

Forget he ever even existed because your name is on it and legally, that's all they see. If they can't find him, your name is on it and you will feel it. It will if if it doesn't get paid, your credit's going to get destroyed. It's going to keep you from doing the things you want to do. So, add it to the list of debts. The best thing that you can do in this situation mentally and emotionally is say, "You know what?

This is a mistake I made. This was the part I played." Forget all about him cuz he's somewhere eating a sandwich. He is not thinking about you. And he clearly doesn't care about, you know, clearly doesn't care about his finances. So, you pay it. Don't spend another ounce of energy thinking about him because it's just wasted mental calories and emotional calories. And because the debt is, you know, 6 years old, they might be willing to settle. If you can scratch up $3,000 and call them say, "Hey, listen.

I don't know where this guy is. I don't know where the bike is. He's an ex. I'll give you three grand if you can call this debt paid in full >> [music] >> and clear it from your credit and move on with your life emotionally and financially." >> [music] >> We're rooting for you, Annie. Hang on the line. We're going to get you hooked up with EveryDollar.

>> [music]

>> You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance.

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Visit zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. If you missed it, we had an awesome live stream that happened last [music] night depending on when you're hearing this. You can go check it out and watch the replay ramseysolutions.com/livestream or just head to our YouTube channels.

Jade and Dave just held court on stage

and it was a wonderful time. So, be sure to check that out if you're looking to kick 2026 off with a bang. Laura is in

Salt Lake City. What's going on, Laura?

Hi. [clears throat] Um I'm just trying to figure out where I go from here. My my husband and I my husband's a contractor and I'm a stay-at-home mom and we've owned our own business for 12 years. And in the last 3 years he's been partnering with his brother and just splitting profits 50/50.

And I was okay with that until this recent year we've got a job that's taking over a year and I do all the paperwork. So, I do I run the business side of it.

And so, I asked for this job if I could get like 5-10% for me cuz I felt like

it's a lot more cuz I've got workers comp and employees and subcontractors now with this year-long job.

And he said, "No. He doesn't feel comfortable doing that because um this is where I got a little upset.

He said, "I'm a a wife that helps out

Mhm. >> and doing a little bit of paperwork doesn't mean I get a cut of the business." Mhm. Like the full business as a whole or you just trying to make are you trying to get him to pull more salary like payroll for you? >> this No, I mean this job.

Like we own our own business. It's a small business and we've been we've been fine and I technically own 49% of business. That's what it is on the paperwork. >> Yeah, yeah.

Well, you are an owner. >> we're arguing about splitting 50/50 with his brother for this big job.

He said, "No, we can't do that. You're just helping you're my wife and you're helping me out so I don't have to do the paperwork and I can spend more time with the family." Mhm. And so, and I just for the last

12 years I thought I was a business partner and so I just I think this is I think this is more about I think this is more about the disappointment of how he views you versus like a money or like a business thing. At least that's what I'm hearing.

You feel disrespected, belittled like your work doesn't really matter.

That's what the heart is. >> that though. Like I do when it's a $23,000 job and it's a few

receipts and some hourly work, it's not a big deal to split it 50/50. But I mean this profit's going to be about $200,000. >> So, you want a cut of the profits? I want a I want a piece of profit because it's a lot more work for me to do a $200,000 or well, this one's $200,000.

>> the question. Yeah, do you receive a salary? Have you ever received a salary?

No, it's not a salary. It's our business. We're partners. So, the question is the question is on a job like that I hear what you're saying. What you're saying is more emotional. I'm talking about on paper at this point. If they're 50/50 are are your brother

your brother the the the brother and your husband is that 50/50 on paper or

is it No, he's he's the own contractor and he's his own business.

And so, they just have a deal that they when they do jobs together, they split the profit 50/50. Okay. So, my my thing is this. So, you're saying in essence the profit should be split in thirds and >> I I don't think thirds cuz I'm I'm not doing a third of the work.

>> Do you just want 10%? >> isn't that much. I asked for 5 to 10%.

So then the other question is this. Let's let's just look at it as it is.

Just take emotion out of it for a minute. Okay.

The brother even though they're working on this and they're separate businesses, does the brother have somebody who does the paperwork for him on his side of the business and has all that and then what you know, he takes that Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. Both businesses are probably set up similarly. So, the other side of this conversation would have been for you to say, "Husband, if we're doing more work on this, shouldn't we be taking more of the profit?

Should should this be a 60/40 split with your brother?" Or Do you see what I'm saying? But Because at the end of the day >> a wife helping out." Okay, but >> those words exactly? "You're just a wife." I'm I'm trying to go after like >> he said that.

>> I just want to know if he was on the phone. I feel like he would be like, "No, no, here's what I said." Because what what I'm getting at is if the money's going into you guys' pot, it's both of your money and that's a whole other conversation if you guys don't view it that way. But it's both of your money. What I'm saying is although what he said sounds disrespectful, I wasn't there but it sounds disrespectful.

There's two different conversations here. There's what's fair financially for you not you and him separately but the business and then there's the conversation of how we treat each other with respect within our marriage. Does that make sense? >> Yeah.

then that's that deal. Now, then there's a conversation of, "Well, honey, there's two of us on the payroll. It would benefit both of us possibly if you received a salary or if I and if I received a salary." Now, if you're trying to split hairs and the salary

would remain the same and you guys would just have your names on it differently, I do think that's splitting hairs.

Are you following what I'm saying?

Uh I think so. So, it's like mhm. So, my

husband and I own a business together and this is true. If the if if Sam is profiting if he takes $200,000 as profit on the business, right? Let's say I'm staying home with the kids. That's our money.

It's our profit. Now, if I'm helping him out and I say, "Oh, the $200,000, it feels weird that zero of that is like written in my name. I'd like for you to write 50 of it in my name so you make 150 and I make 50." That's me splitting hairs cuz the 200 is going into our account anyway. Now, if I said, "Sam, I've been thinking, you know, you're working and I'm working.

If there's room, I probably should take a salary, too.

It's good for the business if we're making more and we can profit more into our pocket. So, for the work I'm doing maybe you can pay me, you know, $30,000 a year on top of your $200,000." That's a conversation to have based on the work. Yeah. >> And it doesn't have anything to do with the other vendors. Yeah. It was um the

he asked it's like, "Well, what if we do hourly?" But the problem is it's a random phone call here and there.

Or it's um "Hey, can you pick up this

uh these supplies? Can you go grab the trailer? Can you go grab the cement?" So, it's just random thing. It's not a clock in clock out Mhm. thing I do. I

just I'm always on call doing it. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> So, it just sounds like there needs [laughter] to be a set amount.

>> It sounds like there needs to be you guys need to figure out what that split is and it I I it sounds like it needs to be some sort of a set amount, some sort of a a commission that you get for the work that you do that's set and then there's a list of responsibilities that go along with the money that you earn in a month. So, that could be anything from this this this that. That instead of a percentage cuz I asked for a percentage and that's where he choked. I I think percentage is confusing because again, they're viewing it as entity versus entity.

Your guys' business with the brother's business. You're not an entity. You're part of part of your business entity. So, I think that's what caused the confusion.

But if you're just like, "Hey, put me on the payroll. Let's figure out what that means." That's one conversation. I think that's great if you can afford it.

Right? When you stayed home, it wasn't the same as it was before.

Yeah. But we never had a conversation about what this looks like now and he views you as, "Well, she works with the on the business but she's not pulling the weight that me and my brother are, right?" >> Yeah. And that's that's where he said it. He said that as well.

And we just never acknowledge that when you stayed at home because you guys, you know, are married and live together, it's easy to let those things slide and I think we should have had a conversation going, "Hey, I know that this has been our business. It's going to shift now. My brother's going to be stepping in to shoulder some of the weight of this and you will be more of an employee in the business and here's how that's going to be laid out financially." I think it's just we need to reset. >> we never had.

Exactly.

part-time hourly wage and you keep track of how much time you spent on the business and that's what you're paid. I don't know what that looks like for you guys. You also need to find out the other truth of that is uh if you weren't

there to do the job would he absorb those responsibilities or would he have to hire out? And that's a really good way to determine And what would he have to pay for that person? >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. >> Cuz if you don't want to do it anymore cuz you're fed up with it, then just say, "I'm not doing it." Doesn't change how much you get paid.

Mhm. I thought about that but it just it would hurt the business more. >> Exactly. It's sticking it to the man. You're you're sort of you know, you're you're hurting yourself in that regard. Mhm. Yeah. Cuz if it's truly y'alls money and it goes into the same bank account and you're married filing jointly, then you're really just hurting yourself to make a point. And I I I would rather you avoid that.

>> I can't do that cuz then it would just Yeah. Yeah. Then a hard conversation is your next step, Laura. I wish you the best.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Michelle is in Vegas up next. What's going on, Michelle?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I have a question [music] with regards to Cobra.

So we've currently been on Cobra for about a year. We're going to be transitioning off in the next 3 to 6 months. I should have done this sooner, but I didn't. Um I'm looking at these alternative health sharing plans and just kind of curious what your thought is on those. When I compare what I'm paying for Cobra versus what a med share or health sharing plan would be. What are you paying for Cobra right now?

>> difference. Uh seven it's going from 1,600 to 1,700

and that's a family of four. Okay. And what's >> Plus my my son went away to college and I've got to pay for separate insurance for him because my plan doesn't cover him in Colorado. Mhm.

Okay. And neither of you have insurance provided through your employer?

Correct. Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future?

I think so. What do you guys make a month?

A month? Um eight. Okay. This is a big chunk of

your your world paying for this health insurance.

Right. Mhm.

Well, there's a there's a few options. One is the health sharing types and we have a great partnership with Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's one option you can look at that could make sense for you guys depending on your situation. Another is just shopping the marketplace and we have another partner, HealthTrust Financial, that's fantastic for that.

They can help you save and see you might find out, hey, it's actually not much more or it's less than we're paying right now depending on your situation. >> Right. Why what would keep you from just shopping the marketplace? Because the the truth is if you pick one of those plans, it's going to be regulated.

If for some reason a claim is denied, you can you can fight it and there's somebody in your corner and there's regulations around it versus some of the others that don't have those protections. Like I I'm trying to understand what your values are around this. Is it the faith-based thing?

A little bit of everything. I'm looking at it where I've been paying, you know, $20,000 a year for insurance plus another 3,000 when my son went away to school. And I know with some of these health sharing plans, it's going to be, you know, $500 a month plus a $12,000 deductible. But I'm looking at it where I'm like, why am I spending $20,000 a year on insurance that's okay, you know,

you know, it's not great, it's okay. You still got co-pays and things like that.

One of my sons just had a diagnosis where they don't cover the pills that they want him to take and >> [clears throat] >> that's going to be out of if, you know, if I don't go through the drug company, that's going to be out of pocket $6,000.

So I'm just I'm I think I'm frustrated and I'm just thinking, what are the alternatives?

Yeah, I I I do think so if you're considering this, one of the things that I would say could be a con to a health share is if you do have a chronic illness. Pre-existing condition.

>> condition. Health shares are good for you're healthy, you rarely go, um you you know, you agree with the whatever status it is that that is faith-based of the community or whatever it is. Um and yeah, if to get the the

lower payment, that's helpful. But in your case, I'm wondering because there is a pre-existing condition, there is >> imminent health care needs.

So I might shop HealthTrust Financial and just see what they can find you in the marketplace. And then if you're, hey, I I need another option, I would look into Christian Healthcare Ministries as an alternative. Yeah, because in your case in your case, if I put a claim through, I want to know that it's going to be covered. And I want to know that I can hold them to a standard in order to to as close of a standard as as we can.

And I already know they're not going to pay for this drug. Mhm.

Like my health insurance is not going to pay for this drug. So I can go through Pfizer and they'll give me a 2-year kind of cover. As it is you're talking about as it is on on your Cobra coverage?

Mhm. Well, but that could change if you shop the market and find the right plan for you. And is there do you think it would be best if you guys found an employer like one of you has a health insurance plan?

Would that be more beneficial? >> Possibly. Mhm. Possibly. I mean, we don't really have any other bills.

Like that's Our house is paid for. We have investments and all that. So that's So you're in a good place financially, but you're just sick of paying this astronomical rate. >> Yeah, it's Yeah.

>> It's kind of disgusting. It's it that's actually a trend right now. If you follow social media, it really is a big trend that people are tired of paying premiums and a lot of people are going to wild business like not having insurance coverage at all. And the truth is, George, you know this, bankruptcy one of the one of the biggest causes of bankruptcy is medical debt.

And so it's not something that you want to, you know, play around with.

And the truth is no one likes paying a bill. No one likes paying paying a premium. It it feels it feels thankless, it feels like money going down a black hole. But when it when it it comes time that you need that coverage, you're like, oh, thank god I have it.

It's a safety net. That's the it's a transfer of risk. That's all insurance is and right now it stinks to pay 20 grand a year, but it would stink a whole lot more to have a $500,000 bill. Mhm.

And it doesn't take much. So I would not go without coverage for a single day, but I would start researching like my life depended on it through those options that I just gave you. Those are places I would start personally.

Okay. I appreciate it. >> Best of luck, Michelle. The health care system is broken. I think that is a bipartisan, non-partisan take. It just sucks. >> it does. Oh man, let's go out to Danny in Wichita. What's going on, Danny?

Danny, you with us?

Yeah, hello. Hey, what's going on?

How you doing? Great. How can we help?

Well, um calling I'm 50 years old. Uh

recently had a heart attack. Ooh. Um I'm

about $50,000 in debt.

Um I've got about $18,000 or so in a

uh old 401k plan from an employer.

Um I I don't have any savings at the moment. Um just I I make decent money.

Um How much do you make?

>> is I know the that I I make about $6,000 a month at

minimum. That kind of that fluctuates um

to, you know, to about between 6,7500. I

drive a truck. Is it just you?

>> Um It's just well, I have a 17-year-old son at home. Okay. So it's just him and I. Um about $11,000 of that debt is because

I yeah, I was in fear mode after this happened and I knew I needed to cut start cutting expenses cuz I was going to have medical bills coming in. I do I do have insurance, but still um

so I got out of my apartment lease and found uh a cheaper place to live. I was paying 1,300. I went down to $850 a month for uh rent. Okay.

>> Um that also allowed me to get rid of the storage facility that I was paying 140 a month on $140 a month on. Okay. Um

What's your question today? Just so we make sure we can help you.

Yeah, my question is I know the baby steps and all you know, the debt snowball, the saving a thousand.

Um during the heart attack, they found that I have aortic aneurysm and a bicuspid heart valve which is going to require surgery at some point. They don't know. It it could be 3 months, could be 3 years. They just they don't know.

It's it's it's imminent though. Um my question is knowing that, um should I start stacking money and get to a certain point and then get onto the debt snowball and because obviously there's going to be some recovery time with that and not knowing exactly when that point for the surgery is going to come. >> Yeah.

You've you've had a catastrophic event with this heart attack and you've got some things coming up on the burner. And if I were your in your shoes, I'd do two things. I would I would call up my insurance and I would let I would have a conversation about the things that are going getting ready to happen, what will be covered, I would want to know very clearly what's my out-of-pocket max for the year, what's my deductible. Uh and that's that is the

amount of money that I would aim to save up because you know this like you know the rate is going to fall.

>> Uh my out-of-pocket uh individually is 9,200. The deductible is 3,000 and that

that's individual total is twice that, so 84 18,400

family which and then So 9,200 for you.

I'd save up $10,000 and then the next number you need to know is you need to find out what's the recovery time. So how much time am I going to miss from work? What's that equal up to? And that's your emergency fund that you want to save up. So [music] calculate if if it's going to be a 3-month recovery, calculate what that's going to be and save up that cash.

Um and that's the best thing you can do. Knowledge is going to be power in this situation, my friend. And once you've got all that taken care of, you can push play on the steps and man we're we're hoping that the surgery goes well and that you recover swiftly, my friend.

Thanks for the call.

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Yeah. >> Love it. All right, Jerry is in West Palm Beach up next. What's going on, Jerry?

Hey, how are you guys doing? Good.

What's going on with you?

Doing good. I was just calling because uh my question is that my wife and I we potentially can be out of debt by the end of this year, but she currently wants to move to a new apartment because of an ongoing roach issue. >> Oh. Um and the the money that we would use to pay off debt would be used to purchase a new apartment. So I was calling to see if we should use that money to buy the apartment or to Ooh, do you own the apartment you're in?

Uh no, we're currently renting. But that would break the lease?

Uh well, the lease is a month-to-month until November 31st. So we would use all the money that we would use to pay the debt off this year would have to be saved the entire year in order to pay for first last and security uh till the end of the year. >> On a new apartment. So you're not buying an apartment, just you're renting a different one. Yeah. Yeah, we're just renting. We're on baby step two. What is that number for a first last and security?

Well, we're not sure yet. Um here in Florida we estimate that for a two-one it'll probably be around 2,100 2,200 a month. And and so that's the first thing is finding out exactly what the numbers are to find out how it's going to affect your debt-free uh journey and and getting real numbers around that versus um guestimates. Ah,

I'm going to say something here that um I I can't do roaches.

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing to be like I don't want to live with a roach infestation. My big question is why is the apartment not doing anything about it?

Well, we have a pest control company that we use, but um the efforts that they've been putting in haven't been working that well. >> need like Ghostbusters in there.

>> in the entire apartment complex?

Somebody coming to your thing spraying the little twick not just >> Terminator, Ghostbusters, a Catholic priest waving something. I mean, I want everybody up in there. >> where they cover the whole building with fabric. >> Exorcist, get what you have to get up in there to get the roaches out. And if they don't handle it, I think you have the right to fight them to get out of this lease without without, you know, paying any fees.

Well, the the lease actually says that we're in charge of the pest control. So you pay for pest control?

Yeah, we pay for pest control. >> the problem. Do you see what I'm saying?

If you're just uh your pest control what you pay for is just going for your unit, but if the whole building has an infestation problem, you can spray till the cows come home in all your corners, but they're going to keep coming down from the guy upstairs who, you know, where it all started. So that that yeah, I'd be up and out of there. I'd sit with your wife and figure out what's it going to cost. Sometimes, you know, the baby steps yours, you know this, sometimes it feels like two steps forward, a little step back, two steps forward, a little step back, and it's just like that, but in this case roaches Yeah.

>> And the five grand, you're sort of just like prepaying, you know, the first month, last month, the deposit hopefully you get back. And so there's a little bit of the sunk cost up front, uh but I think it's well worth it. >> Mhm. And I would just try to make up for lost time once you guys are in that new apartment, let's work twice as hard to get out of debt by the end of the year regardless.

Oh, I agree. That's good advice. I appreciate it. >> Mhm. I'd be getting I would also Here's Here's how much of a nerd I am. I would be uploading the lease agreement to chat GPT to then act like my lawyer to tell me how to get out of this thing and see what they are responsible for. And so maybe that'll help, Jerry. I don't know, but man, that's not a fun problem to deal with and I'm with your wife on this one. I have threatened to move before.

Did that work? No, um I think Sam knows cuz I've threatened to move over many things, [laughter] but hey, when we live in South Florida, we have what's called palmetto bugs, which is really just called a giant roach that can fly. Oh, I hate those.

And these people in the audience are like, "Girl, I know what you're A palmetto bug can be like the size of the palm of they're big and they they you can't get around it. Like you could spray all day, but they like water. So if you're by the glades or if you're by if you have pipes in your house, they can come in your house. So basically everywhere we've ever lived, I've threatened to move. Ew.

All right, you just convinced me to never move to Florida. Thank you today.

It's a reason not to. >> Declan is in Pittsburgh. What's going on, Declan?

Hey guys, thanks [clears throat] so much for taking my call. Sure.

What's going on? Um trying to decide if it makes the most sense to move out to California to live

with my wife's grandmother and her special needs uncle help take care of them and save some money in the process and knock out some more debt. Wow.

>> Is your wife going with you?

Oh, yeah. Okay. I was like is this a solo adventure for Declan? Okay, so [laughter] you're considering moving from Pittsburgh all the way across the country to California to save some money. How can you save money moving to California? Help me understand that part. Exactly. It's kind of the Goldilocks situation. So um my wife's grandmother has a really nice house that we'd be able to have our own section of the house. It's a large house. How large? Um

like five five bedrooms, three full

baths. Um so we'd have two bedrooms and a whole living room to ourselves with the kids.

Oh, you got kids? >> kids?

Two kids, two and three month old. Two year old and three month old. What about the jobs? Help me understand the job situation.

So I work full-time. I'm a fully remote.

Um I make 80K a year and my wife is

currently staying home. 80? 80,000?

Okay. And then you're you're going to have additional jobs on top of this to take care of >> Yes, so so my my wife would be able to be the full-time caretaker for my uncle or for her uncle um who's special needs and he

just he's a great, he just needs help, you know, with making food and like little things like that. Mhm. So we're it's be easy for her to stay home and take care of him as well. So it's kind of a a perfect situation there. Does grandma or the uncle have any income to speak of?

Yes. Okay. Um I know grandma has

Grandma's doing great and she has rental income that from other properties that yeah, she's she's doing just fine. What about uncle?

I know he's he's fully disabled so he doesn't work. Does Grandma pay for uncle's needs?

Yes, fully. Okay.

Instead of a caretaker that they'd hire,

they would just say yeah, let's have family do it and they can live for free and that's the trade-off?

Exactly, yes. >> I don't know about this.

>> Yeah, go ahead. Um >> [snorts] >> was this something that was the request made or was this something that you guys had a hankering to do? Like you know what?

>> No, the request the request was made.

Everyone like we would love to go spend more time with their family in California but they are looking for someone because their current caretaker is leaving and Uncle Danny is he's kind of someone who

needs someone who he knows and is comfortable with and so they asked if anyone in the family no one else wanted to do it except we said we would.

Okay, so you want you want to do this.

Yeah, yeah, I think it'd be I think it'd be great to have some extra income spend spend a while in California with some family and Help me understand the extra income. So so help me so right now you're making $80,000 a month. What's your what do you pay on rent and housing right now?

We have mortgage we on us it's about a

month. So 1200 a month for is that just the mortgage? Tell me living expenses lighting all that stuff utilities.

Um I've worked looking at

Basically at the end of the month we're breaking even. We're we're paying our minimums on debt but we're not getting ahead. >> debt do you have?

We have 45,000 in student loans. That's it?

Yep, that's it. >> And you're breaking even.

Yeah. >> Yeah, so something needs to change. I don't know if the move is the next step.

I personally wouldn't do it to try to save money. If you just want to do it for the adventure of it and you think you can make it work, go for it. I don't think you're going to pay off debt much faster because of California's taxes.

Yeah, you're >> factored that in? We It's actually funny I I did a lot of research into the taxes and my bracket we would be saving because we have a huge local income tax here 2% local income tax that we would not be paying. >> Would you sell your house?

If we sold our house, yeah. You would sell your house and what would you make on that?

Probably 20,000 in equity.

20 grand in equity. Well, then you got fees, you got moving costs with a 2-year-old and a 3-month-old dude. I got kids your age. I wouldn't do any of this. >> do this either. I I just wouldn't. I would pass for now and I would try to make more money and cut expenses but this feels like a Hail Mary. >> Mhm. I wish you the best with the decision Declan, it's a big one.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm [music] George Kamel joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw. Her latest book What No One Tells You About Money launched this week and we have it feels like birthday month. We're just celebrating all week all month long.

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Brian is in Bismarck, North Dakota.

What's going on Brian?

Good afternoon. How are you guys? Great.

How can we help?

Hey, so my wife and I were just wondering if we are crazy for wanting to pay off our our house before we have kids.

Is it crazy? I mean I wouldn't call you crazy. Wouldn't put you in the loony bin for it but I also wouldn't recommend it.

Well, yeah, what's the timeline on this and how old are you?

So my wife and I are both 22 years old and we're hoping to pay off our mortgage in about 20 to 24 months. Yeah, I mean

if it lines up with your timeline who cares? That's totally personal. And can I tell you the honest truth? It could take you 24 months to get pregnant. So I wouldn't just wait to start trying until then. Unless that was part of your plan all along and you're like hey, we want to be married for a while before we have kids.

I mean what what it's a values conversation. So is this is this a sacrifice in you guys's eyes

or are you just concerned with how other people are viewing it?

Um it is sort of a sacrifice. We

we're holding off on like going on trips and upgrading on cars in order to do this. >> Mhm. Um but part of it is also we want to make sure that my wife can be a stay-at-home mom without me having to worry >> [clears throat] >> and on top of that I would like to switch jobs to something a little bit more controllable with the schedule. Mhm. Um

and that would cause me to take a step back in pay.

Yeah, I mean that like I said it's a totally values. My husband and I when we were first married we figured out that we had a bunch of debt and the timeline on ours was we knew it was a long horizon for us. It ended up taking 7 and 1/2 years to pay it off. The whole timeline in total was closer to 9 years to be honest and our choice was to wait.

I would never put that on anybody else because ours was very extreme. Yours is not but at the same time you want what you want. So if you say this is the type of stability we want, this is what we want our life to look like when kids come on the scene, that's totally your choice. Nobody else has to understand that but just know from a a principal standard on our side

that is not part of the deal. You don't have to say we're going to postpone our family until XYZ is true with money.

Okay. Yeah, there's no baby step for having kids and I'll tell you Brian I I lived your story. It just wasn't that intentional of like we're not going to even try to have kids before we pay off the house but my wife and I we paid off our house in 26 months and then when we

did have a kid she was able to stay home with with less stress. So I think those steps will happen. I just don't think you need to use the house pay off as the excuse. But if you want to wait 2 years to have kids, do that and be paying off the mortgage early. But I don't think it needs to be this like we're not going to even try until the house is paid off.

See what I'm saying? Right.

Yeah, I get that. But I think you guys are going to get there regardless and we need more parents like you. More fiscally responsible parents in the world. So I wish you the best with the house pay off and with with having kids.

All right, thank you. Glad we could settle the debate.

Not crazy. Not crazy. I listen, I wouldn't change that for the world on my end. >> But if we were like hey, don't have kids until you're baby step seven we >> No, we can't say that. We can't say any of it to anybody. >> Population would decline. [laughter] We can't have that.

Population decline. Mike is in Houston, Texas. What's going on Mike? What's your question?

Great, thanks for taking my call.

My question is about accidental life insurance accidental death life insurance. I got a quote from you know somebody just kind of sent in the mail. The reason I'm questioning whether I need it or not is the premium is just so low that it almost seems like why wouldn't I take it? I'm 60, my wife 61,

we make about 150,000 a year, have no debt, uh net worth is about 1.8, house is paid

for it's about 400,000 the rest is in uh mutual funds 401k IRAs things like that plus some savings. Do you have term life?

I do. I'm sorry, yeah. I also have term life policy for both my wife a smaller amount cuz she never worked it's about 100,000 and I have about 500,000 on myself. So again

I'm wondering do I need again this it's just such a something like >> you what were the numbers on it? What were you trying to What's the amount of money you're trying to obtain upon accidentally dying?

Yeah, [laughter] that's kind of how we all hope to go intentionally.

Exactly. That's what so many the if you die in airplane it's $400,000 but the premium is only 20 bucks a month.

>> So what would happen if you upped what if you upped your policy from one I'm

sorry from 500 to 700? I'm sure it would be comparable if not less. It's No, it's

it's not cuz I have looked at that. So again in order to change my life insurance policies upping it actually puts it into a different you know I'm kind of Because of your age.

Yeah, and so the the term policy even

changing a little bit makes it not affordable. So >> Well, the truth is accidental death insurance is a gimmick insurance and and we never recommend that and I don't do it because it's a good deal and it's a low amount. The truth is you don't need it. If something happened to you, she's going to have $500,000. If something happens to her, you got 100 grand plus all of your retirement money. So, you guys are at the point where you could consider yourselves self-insured, right?

Yeah, that's right. It's kind of that balance right now of, you know, I feel like I could be, you know, but I don't I don't feel like enough to where I drop the life insurance.

>> never tell you to drop it. But, how long do you have left on the term policies?

10. All right. >> Okay. So, that's it. 10 years. 10 years from now, your wealth has doubled if not tripled, right?

Possibly. Yeah. And just based on stock market returns and your income. Yeah.

And if something happened to you, your would your wife be able to live on the nest eggs that you have? You've got the paid-for house. You'd have, you know, uh over, you know, 3 million sitting in your 401(k)s. Do you think she'd be able to live off that? She She would. >> 300,000 a year?

Yeah, she would. And then that's where the the the just the anxiousness is coming in. It's like, it's just a small dollar amount. It's almost just a gamble.

It's like gambling. You throw another quarter in there and see if it hits or not. Um is why I was questioning it. But, you almost I guess you had me when you said it's a gimmick.

It is a gimmick. I mean, think about it like this. You could You could, like, let's go down this hole. You could play it like that.

Um I would never recommend it, but it's kind of like what we say with things like crypto and single stocks. When your When your stuff is done right, you've done the baby steps, you've got extra, those things are considered gambling. It's like play money at that point. But, in this case, it just is I mean, it's all None of it's necessary, but >> It's just redundant.

>> Yeah, you don't need it. Cuz then it's like, well, [clears throat] what if you get the accidental death and you don't you don't get in a car accident and a hurricane doesn't land on right on your face. Like, what? You don't get the money at that point?

would be to pay a little bit more on the term life and to do it like that. But, really, you you're Once that policy's done, you're going to let it lapse anyway. Or, you're going to let it go anyway because you don't need it. So, it's really At this point, we're really just looking at it logically, and logically, it doesn't make sense.

>> I would skip it and put that 20 bucks in a fun money line item and have some fun instead of freaking out. But, man, how If your wife would be so mad if you died of natural causes after paying for this accidental life insurance for so long,

gosh, just pass peacefully in his sleep.

>> a roulette. Dang it, Mike. 100,000 dollars was on the line.

I hope you live a long life, Mike. I'm going to put that out there.

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Mary [music] is in New York City up next. What's going on, Mary?

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. How are you? Sure, we're doing great.

Good. Um I just have a question about how you would handle a situation when you disagree with your spouse about going into debt. Mhm. Tell us the Tell

us the tea. What's going on?

>> [sighs] >> Um so, it's regarding our vehicles. Um we both drive uh paid-off vehicles. I

drive a 2022 Ford Expedition, which we

bought um used. Uh went into a little

bit of debt, but paid it off very quickly. Um my husband drives a 2019

um Toyota 4Runner and has wanted a truck

for a long time and is kind of done

waiting. We've prioritized other uh financial goals for a long time, and now

he just thinks he he wants to go into debt to get it. >> Why would you have to go into debt? What about Well, let me ask a couple questions. Do you guys still have debt or everything's gone now?

Everything's gone. We have a fully funded emergency fund. Um

We have three kids, two of which have 529s, so we're saving for their college. We We fully fund our Roth IRAs every month.

>> Good. And um so, our youngest is two, so You're financially responsible adults, is that is what I would say.

What What is on fire that he needs to sacrifice all that you've built? I mean, can Why Why can you guys not save up and pay cash for this truck?

Yeah, I I think we can. I think it would take some time to save up the difference between the trade-in value. And then, we've got some other money set aside How long would it take?

I would say probably a year, maybe less than that if we were working extra hard.

>> the trade-in. What if you sold it private party and got five grand more for the 4Runner?

And then use that towards the truck on top of your savings. So, I would actually do some math and go, "Okay, what truck are we getting? Are we getting Is it a used truck?" It is, and it's about 55,000. Okay. And what could he sell his 4Runner for private party?

I would say probably about 30. Okay. So, you have a $25,000 gap. How much could you guys put aside right now towards that savings goal every month?

Uh every month, probably between 1,000 and 1,500.

Okay. So, this is going to take longer than a year based on that math.

Well, we've got another We've got about 50 Um we've set it aside for our kid for our oldest daughter's vehicle, but that's about five or six years down the road. So, we could use that. That's outside of our emergency fund. So, uh we were thinking we could also use some of that cash to to fund the truck.

>> And then you'd restart the the car fund for her. >> Mhm. Correct. >> Okay. That's reasonable. >> Mhm. And then, she should also be working, too. That hey, we're If we put this much away every month, January or December of 2026, you can get the car. I I want to get to the bottom of him, though. Uh because what when you tell me this, um

Mary, I'm thinking everybody wants a brand new car tomorrow, right? Like, I'm looking out in the audience. You Do you want a car tomorrow? Do you want one? We all want a brand new car tomorrow. So, like, there's this adult part of us that says, "That's not the way the world works." And I I personally consider it pretty

pretty abnormal, not in the Ramsey verse, but out in the world, pretty abnormal to say, "And, not only do I want a new car, a new-to-me car, but I could save to get it in a year." That's pretty spectacular.

And I think that he needs to be brought back into like brought back down to earth to say, "Most people would love a brand new car and could not afford to save up because they've got other debt other other things to worry about. They could not save up for it for a year." So, it's almost like he's lost perspective on what you've accomplished and what it allows you to do that is so much different than the average American. Does that make sense? Yeah.

I agree 100%. I think that's why I'm calling because um or this is just sort of a fork in the road, and I'm kind of to the point where I'm like, "Okay, do we just do this?" So, he kind of >> No. back off. Don't concede.

Cuz here's the thing. Okay, his brain is ahead of his bank account.

Yeah. And so, you need to say, "We worked our butts off to get out of debt.

It is a value of both of us that we are not a family who goes into debt. We're done. That's an old us that is gone.

That toddler raging inside of us, that instant gratification, that's that's the past. We're not doing that in the future. We're adults. We've been thinking about it a long time. Let's save for a long time." And so, if he wants it faster, work harder, dude. Go make more money. Cut more expenses. Mhm.

That's the conversation to have tonight.

I don't know if we can convince him. You don't get between a man and a truck.

>> Uh I would. I would stand firm. They There are very Okay, this is We're getting into marriage stuff here. So, George, there's very few things that with Sam, I put I like put my stake in, and I'm like, "You know what?" And I'll tell him ahead of time, "This is something I don't think I'm going to budge on." Like, we're going to have this conversation a lot of times.

Like, >> "Hey, I hope we have a comfy couch cuz you'll be sleeping over there." >> Yes. Be Especially like if I know that if I know I'm right. And I'm talking I always think I'm right, but when I really think I'm right, I there are certain things that you have to say, "You know what?" And I think this would be one of those, Mary, that I would say, "This is something that is very important to me, and I don't see myself rolling over on this anytime soon, and here's why." And I'd be I'd be getting firm.

Just saying. >> Yeah, and I feel like I've done that. Um he thinks I'm a hypocrite because we were in a debt to buy my vehicle. Um Oh.

Against his will? >> years ago. But was it against his will?

No. No. Um it was not. It was back when you were both stupid, right?

Yes. >> And now you're both smart. Like you got to remind him of this. Be like, "That was old us.

We've transformed since then. We were both doing stupid stuff back then, but then we got smart. Why would we go back?" He's like, "Well, I I get to do it once, too." You know, it truly is just a toddler inside of us, and it's going, "I want big truck." And you're like, "Well, you can have big truck 1 year from now." He's like, "I want big truck now." And it's like, "Okay, we can all throw our tantrum, but at some point you have to realize that he has a family. He has a wife.

It's not just him making stupid decisions. It affects other people in his life, namely you right now." Yeah, I agree.

And he actually owns that truck instead of being underwater on it or worrying about a payment after you guys worked so hard to get out of debt. Now you're back in baby step two, stressed out with three kids. You guys have a lot of expenses coming up. >> Uh-huh. He's got kids and college and cars. He's got fatigue.

>> Yeah, is he having a midlife crisis, Mary? Is he just done? He's like, how old is he?

About 37. Mm. Uh you know, I talk about this in the book. I'm going to go to this real quick because and I'm probably going to let's go ahead and send them a copy.

I don't know if he'll read it. Maybe he'll do the audio version. But um I talk about this. It's this fatigue that sets in um and it makes you mad.

It makes you angry. It's in the anger chapter. When you're making a good income, you've done so many things right, but you're still not at whatever you think the finish line should be, and there's just certain things that you think, "I deserve that. I work hard.

I did this." And and you look at the list of accomplishments and you go, "I deserve to have X, Y, Z." And in his mind it's, "I deserve to have this truck." And that is such a dangerous place to be, the I deserve, because it is just We saw it with COVID when there was the revenge spending.

>> We had to be locked up in our houses and we couldn't see our families, and we had to wear a mask, and as a result, I'm going to buy all the Lululemon that my you know >> to Italy. Yeah, I'm going to Italy, and it is a it's a natural response, so I'm not mad at your husband, but I do want to stop him from doing something that I think he's actually going to regret because then next thing you know, he's going to be the one calling the show talking about I bought a truck, and next thing I know I lose I lost my job, my wife's mad at me, right?

So, we're just trying to help him. I'll send you a copy of the book.

Okay. Thank you. >> What Hey, what's your household income, Mary, before you go?

Um about 170. Okay. And what's your car worth?

Probably 55. We We bought it for I think 60 back

in 2023 when we had our third child.

>> Okay. Well, here's here's what I want to throw out there. Our parameter around cars and things that go down in value, boats, motorcycles, whatever, is that it should add up to no more than half of your annual income. So, the truth is you guys are going to have way too much car considering your income and your financial world. And so, here's my compromise. He can have the truck now if he goes out and gets a $25,000 car and sells his 4Runner.

Could we find a sweet truck?

>> that.

How much better are they 5 years later?

Is the technology really that much better?

I I don't know. I don't really care about trucks, but he Well, he just wants the newest, shiniest thing. I would say here's the compromise. We can use whatever cash we have now to get the truck that we can afford with that amount of money.

And if we can't afford that, you want a nicer truck, we got to wait, and we have to make more money. It's way too much of our world to have $110,000 tied up with things going down in value even when we make 170.

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Not available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Jenna in Illinois. She says, "My husband and I are in baby step two, but are also in stork mode as we'll have our first baby in a few months." That's exciting. "My question is, how do you deal with the pregnancy cravings? This is not going where I thought it was.

If I let myself, I would be building this baby on McDonald's french fries and Oreo cookies. So far I've done my best to limit those cravings and let not let them take over, but this is not easy. Is it okay to splurge on a drive-thru french fry order once a week? The cravings really do get wild sometimes, and the emotions the emotional swing is crazy.

Should I work on letting the cravings pass, or can I splurge a little until they go away later in my pregnancy? Oh my gosh. I I love this question. >> This is real the real talk.

Yeah. Okay, what's your take, Jade? I I fight me in the comments if you must.

Go get some french fries, for crying out loud. Please, woman, go get the french fries. Uh That's all I have to say on the matter.

My sister told me this, and she either told me this to make me feel better, or maybe it is scientific, but if the baby asks for it, it's cuz you need it. There you go. Like you just need to have it.

>> It's science. It means that you need energy. If you crave carbs, or you need

it's telling your body something is what she told me, so. >> Pre-dad George would be like, "No. You stick to the plan no matter what." And then I had to deal with a pregnant woman

and her cravings. I don't want to get in the middle of a pregnant woman and her craving. It is, "Yes, ma'am. I am on it." Now, what what was Whitney's? Um you know what? I think she went the I think she was salty. Things like salty snacks, and then it switched to sweets with the our latest. Can I tell you mine? If that Krispy Kreme light was on, The [laughter] hot sign's on, you You could not stop me. better bet Jade's in that drive-thru. >> not stop me. You still can't stop me.

>> I do think limiting it is good cuz it can turn into a habit, and I would try to go, "Hey, what cravings can we accomplish through shopping at the grocery store versus eating out?" Cuz that's where it triples or quadruples.

>> Yeah. Cuz that's the mark up. A potato's a potato.

Um Alexa has some great ones in the air fryer. >> going to say, you can get now it's McDonald's fries are top tier. Their diet Coke is top tier. If you know, you know. >> different. >> You can't get a diet Coke from the store and have it hit the same. That's just the truth. Ask any woman. That's true.

>> But are there Can we get Oreos from the store? Sure. And that's a grocery line item. >> Mhm.

Um so, if those are your cravings, then you can grocery shop for them, I would say fair game. >> How much is a McDonald's Let's You want to know what I would do to make you feel better? What's the math on it? How much is a McDonald's large fry?

I would say, I don't know, three or four bucks, probably. About three? >> $5? Oh gosh.

>> Is Right. $2? [laughter] $4 for a large fry? Yeah, I was going to say four bucks.

Okay. So, four bucks once a week, that's about, you know, you're talking 16 bucks a month. >> Uh-huh. That's not bad.

20 bucks a month after tax. >> I would cut something else out of the budget in order to make this the priority that it needs to be. >> a cravings line item and set it for that $20 amount. And then you kind of have the permission to spend without guilt and without getting in a fight.

>> lower hypothetically, you could lower your grocery budget by six $16. Make it a meal. make a sub, and just say, "You know what?

>> Trade-off. But there's not a lot you can do. And the thing with pregnancy cravings, they they'll just switch.

You're like, "Well, I just bought 9 lb of pickles, and now you hate pickles? You can't stand the smell of pickles?" That's my life. >> happen. What was your What was Whitney's version? Um I want I don't remember if it was coffee, the smell of coffee.

She's going to correct me. It's all a blur when you have a pregnant wife. It's There's a lot going on, especially when you got a toddler and and she's pregnant. You're surviving. >> Yep. Yep. >> So, no shade thrown at Jenna for wanting some fries once in a while. All right, Colton is in Huntsville up next. What's going on, Colton?

Hey, how are you doing? Great. What's your question? Uh so, I retired from the military at

38. Moved up to Huntsville, Alabama to take a sales job after I tried some sales in Florida and figured I might be pretty good at this unique opportunity and it's just door-to-door cold calling all day, every day on churches, schools, and businesses selling LED signs. Well, my first year I made about $100,000.

Woo. Uh so, it's going pretty good.

Well, now this year's my second full year and I've made about $502,000.

Whoa. Dude, you can sell some LED.

Yeah, and my retirement's about 60 $8,000 a year tax-free.

Um I don't have anything else set up. I mean, I've got health care the rest of my life. My >> Yeah, well, thank you for your service, by the way.

And I'm glad you've transitioned into the workplace so effectively and

spectacularly.

>> Yeah, well, yeah, it's been good. I like people. I like I like Now, was this just a random good year or is it you like I could do this every year? This is consistent.

Oh, it's a unique situation cuz I'm basically also

in a roundabout way operating as a COO of the whole company cuz uh it's just a unique situation with the way the business structured. So, I I grinded a lot harder than I did the first year this year. I probably won't stress myself out as much to to hit this level cuz we're just not internally set up to handle this amount of work by myself cuz I have to go quote the job, sell the job, buy the customer, see it get installed, close it all out, everything. So, it's just >> You have enough money.

Can you hire an assistant? Can you >> Um that's that's been recommended. I Now, I've done a very good job delegating and and and paying people on the side to close things out so that I could move on to other jobs and and other, you know, things like that, but I haven't thought about that yet, but I just I wasn't set up. I didn't see it was going to happen this way, so I didn't have a LLC or anything set up.

Have you set aside money for taxes?

Well, I've saved about 430 of the 502 that I've made this year.

>> My gosh. Cuz you don't need it.

That's That's what's crazy about this.

>> Yeah, so I've saved it just all out of fear as I didn't know what my taxes were going to be. I didn't know what >> Yeah, you might have a $150,000 tax bill, so I'd be on those quarterly estimated payments and and not be shocked. Cuz you can get penalties and fees.

>> and then a lawyer to set up an LLC so that this next year I start getting paid through the LLC, start itemizing. I got a 401k that I'm going to set up.

>> Great. >> I owe about 280 on my house. It's worth probably 350. That's the only debt I have. No credit card debt.

>> So, what's your question?

>> is do I just my I have this huge goal of

not having a house payment.

Um and my I guess my question is do I take 70,000 and max out and put into the contribution my 401k to avoid taxes on that or do I just eat what my taxes are going to be, see where my money's at, and pay the house off? If I were you, I would invest up to 15% assuming you've

got 3 to 6 months of of expenses set aside. If you don't, take some cash, set it aside, earmark it as an emergency fund. If I were you, I'd do 6 months.

Um I would then uh make sure you're

investing 15%. Once you get that 401k set up, that's that's the magic number you want. 15% of your gross income.

Which that's 75 grand if you made 500.

Yeah, like I could max contribute this year the way I've got set up is 70 grand and I didn't know if if I should do that or just pay the taxes what I'm going to take the hit that I'm going to >> How old are you? get hit with? I'm 38.

Okay. I mean, you're basically front-loading a new retirement fund right there with 70 grand. That's going to That's amazing. Now, if you want to pay off the house >> of my life is about 70 grand tax-free and then it course it goes up with inflation.

>> Yeah. But if you wanted to pay off the house today and you just still have money left over to pay all your taxes and then we'll you know, then you're really set up to build some serious wealth.

Yeah. Yeah, and so that's that's just kind of where I was at is do I take that lump sum and go ahead and put it into a 401k to avoid paying taxes on it and get it invested or do I just take the hit that I'm going to get hit on tax >> the good news is the house is going to get paid off. Yeah, it's going to get paid off fast regardless. I would get with your tax accountant and go, "Hey, what's my best tax saving strategy so I don't give the IRS more than I have to." And any money left over, pay the taxes with and whatever's left after that, throw it at the mortgage and you'll pay off the house next year.

>> And Colton, good job.

>> [music]

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Sarah is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Sarah?

Hi. So, I'm 23 and I graduated college

in May of '25. And when I graduated, I

had two full-time jobs making over $8,000 a month after taxes and lifestyle creep kind of hit me. So, for my grad gift I bought a used Porsche for $20,000 and then I moved to Chicago, which doubled my living expenses. And then unexpectedly last month one of my jobs ended. It was a contract. And so, now I only have one job and I realized I could barely cover my bills with that job and so, I stopped investing for my 401k, which left me like a $200 buffer after, but then my student loan payment

deferment period ended and so, now I have a $500 payment that just does not fit in my budget and I can't afford it.

So, >> So, now you're back in the red and like negative 300. What's the income? 4,000?

What did it go down to?

Um so, now after taxes I'm making like 4,900 and my basic budget is like 4,700.

Okay. So, what it sounds like happened and it happens to the best of us. You got excited cuz you were you were doing well. Um and I get it, but you kind of started doing things out of order.

And so, now what I think George and I are going to attempt to do is get you back on track in doing things in the proper order. >> We're going to right-size, as they call it in the corporate world. >> Right-sizing. You were investing. It wasn't quite time to invest yet. You were buying a car, but it was time to pay off the student loans. It was like kind of all jumbled up. So, first off,

the student loans. Is that Is that the only debt you have or is there other debt?

Um besides the car loan, just those two.

Okay. So, the student loans, you said about 500 bucks a month, but what's the the the full amount?

It's 46,000. Okay. And then the car,

what's the full amount of that?

20,000. Okay. And there's nothing else, no credit cards, no medical, nothing else? No, nothing else. >> Okay. Do you have any money saved?

I have 68k total. Like 40 45 in

investments and 20k or 15 in my emergency fund. So, $15,000 emergency fund. I love that you said that. So, the way we would teach it and remember the the point is to do this in the right order. Um if I were to tell you, "Oh, great.

$15,000 saved." In the in the in the face of debt, it's not really your money, right? Because you owe 46,000 to one place and 20,000

to another. So, is it fair to to say that that's not actually yours?

Yes. Yes. So, what I would suggest you

do. But it's also fair to say, "Well, I need a little bit of a of a buffer, Jade." So, that's >> Yeah.

>> The first thing you need You just need a thousand bucks. It's you You just need a thousand bucks between you and the rest of the world so that if something comes up, you can deal with it without going into debt. So, that's what I would do.

I'd put a thousand dollars aside and then that would leave you 14,000 and I would take that and I would throw it at this debt because the next step is for you to pay off your consumer debt.

And so, with that 14, you're going to come, you know, very very close to knocking out the car. And then as you're

paying off the debt, you're going to work to increase your income so you can do it even faster. And then after the debt's gone, now we can start save up an emergency fund and it will actually be your money. It will actually be what it's intended to be, which is a safety net and a sense of security against all the things that might try to come at you versus what it is today, which is kind of just this nagging feeling that is there, but it's not really yours and there's the debt there.

I mean Yeah. How does that hit you?

Um I've I've listened to your guys' show for a while, so I know that you guys you typically talk about doing with the $1,000 emergency fund, but it it really scares me. I I was a foster kid who like aged out of the system, so I don't have like there's nothing I can fall back on if let's say I lose my other job. Like I mean I can I can go back to being a server, doing anything. Like I will never, you know, but it just really scares me to have a nothing in savings, you know, like that really scares me.

Like $1,000 is like half of that. Like rent is $2,000.

>> Here's the alternative though.

It scares me to have you sitting with $66,000 of debt and it's going to take you forever to pay it off if you're the normal American. And so this is a scary move that makes you really it lights a fire under you to get out of that faster cuz right now you're kind of comfortable with the emergency fund. And comfort is the enemy of progress in this case. And so once you throw that at the debt, you're like, oh, game on.

Like we're in this thing. So do you have a bunch of student loans?

It's a bunch and some are um it's a bunch, yeah. So you could probably knock out with the 14K. If you got smaller debts that are smaller than 20K, you could probably knock out a few student loans right there, which frees up those payments, right?

Yeah. That's good. Which could get you at least to a break-even point. And then what is your rent every month?

My rent is uh 2,200.

And you're there's a big problem. You're living alone?

I do. Okay. That's eating That's eating your lunch right now as far as your take-home pay to rent ratio. It's 45%.

Is there a way to get a roommate?

Um in my current um it's probably the closest I've been in my current living situation that I couldn't have a roommate, but um I I could like when this lease ends, I could move somewhere else. But that might be lease ends in October, so that's not like helpful, you know. Yeah.

It's in October.

Yeah. Uh what about take picking up a second job?

I'm super open. Like I've been like interviewing and stuff, but it's, you know, um right after the holidays, people aren't interviewing, but, you know, especially I work in tech, so it's just mostly interviews that can take a month, so it's just like nothing right now, but I'm open to like getting a serving job or something like that. I'm >> I would do that.

I'd do that immediately until the job that you really want does open up. It's going to do It's going to help out your budget, number one, but it's also going to help out your mental state because that feeling of, oh my gosh, I'm just barely making it. I don't have a job.

I'm not making the income. You don't want that to persist. And so bringing in income, getting your budget right side up is really going to help you. It's going to help you perform better in the interviews. It's going to put you know, all of that is going to be affected by that. Um I want to send you a copy of the book because the fear that you were talking about earlier about being a foster kid, I talk I talk in the book about fear of

uh the fear of doing a certain action um can actually keep us in a more scary place. And George said that. It's scarier to sit with $60,000 of debt and it's almost

like you're not able to see how scary that is because of this other fear that's operating over here that we can actually do something about.

And so I want to walk you through that because this is so common and it makes a lot of sense. I have empathy for that and I want to validate like I that makes total sense that you would be, you know, have that scarcity mentality in that way, but it doesn't mean that it's an excuse to say stay that way. I think we can walk you through it because right now you're calling in the show.

So you're up against it regardless, right? So let's get you from against that wall and get you moving forward and not let that fear stop you from the progress that George and I both know that you can make.

Are you living in the city, Sarah?

Yes, I live like downtown. Okay. Do [clears throat] you need a car right now?

Um I mean in Chicago, no, you don't need a car, but I think I'm from like rural Illinois, so I'm just very used to having a car. I don't know how to not have a car, but I I mean I think Chicago has great transit, so I think I could >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say is I mean you could really get out of that much faster. You take your 14 plus the the Porsche is worth 20 at least.

Yeah. That's pretty wild. That's half your debt gone right there.

Ooh, I would do that in Cuz here's here's the napkin math. If you don't sell the car, but you take the 14, apply it to your debt, leaves you with 52,000.

Now, if you apply 1,000 a month, you're done in 52 months. You apply 2,000 a month, you're done in 26 months, about 2 years. Right now, we don't even have a dollar to scratch together because of our budget.

So that's where I'm just showing you the reality. If we stay the same, you are going to be in debt for a long time. If you decide to make some drastic changes, 2 years from now you could be debt-free.

You make two grand a month take-home from this other job, where you sell the Porsche, now we're making progress.

That's the goal here. So hang on the line, we're going to send you Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money.

We're rooting for you, Sarah. You got this.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back [music] to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

I'm George Kamel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Megan is in Virginia Beach. What's going on, Megan? How can we help today?

Hey, thank you for having me. Absolutely.

I need some advice, y'all. And it really it boils down to two things. The first is um how to approach the conversation with my husband about the benefits of combining our finances.

And the second is whether that's even appropriate. So to give you a little bit of context, my husband and I have been married for 2 years.

Um I came into the marriage with uh a mortgage, about $280,000 in mortgage.

Um but otherwise no debt. And he came to

the marriage with close to $300,000 in student loan debt and no assets.

And you know, this is something that obviously we knew we had talked about.

Um and unfortunately, he was unemployed for the first year of our marriage. Um and he has since regained employment.

He's doing well. Um but during this time, our finances

have been completely separate. Um you know, he's did some of the things actually that you talk about. Um I think he's got some emotional baggage that's tied to that amount of student loan debt and he's concerned that you know, should we combine finances, there's a possibility that um the creditors may

come after combined assets or they may

try to um adjust his payment schedule based on our combined income. And I think that these are all valid results, but um

some of the conversations I've had with him are, well, I would I think there's

major benefit to combining our incomes because um just the visibility, right?

We would be on the same page. We would be able to plan for things together like retirement. We wouldn't have to Yeah.

have the conversation about who's got who's going to pay for dinner on Friday night. Who's picking up the tab? You know, like [laughter] some of the stuff like that. And um you know, he's making a little bit of money now. Um he hasn't started paying the student loan debts yet. Oh my gosh, it's a different story, but >> What does he make and what do you make?

Yeah, so I make about $140,000

a year. Um and he makes about 130 right now.

Okay, great. But he owns his own business. So after all of the overhead, I think last year he took a he took home about 40. What? >> Oh. So his income is only 40. It's not 130K.

Yeah. When you say took home, like on his taxes His revenues were 130, but his his salary >> he really made 40 according to the IRS.

Right, right. And so, you know, part of that is owning your own business.

You know, we he writes off a lot of things. He's got a lot of overhead right now. What did he go to school I'm sorry.

What did he go Lawyer? And what kind of business does he do?

He's got his own law practice. Okay. How long How long has he been at it?

About 5 years. And each year he's made

40,000?

Or less? Or more? >> Um well, he uh no, this year has been the best year.

Um but I have to really say that >> Let me ask you a question. Is he a good lawyer?

He is. That's where I was going is that his earning potential is going to keep keep going. And so What's holding him back? >> go work for someone else and make 50, 60, 70, 80K today?

He can, but he won't. >> Why not?

>> He can't work for other people. Why? He

doesn't play nice with others?

Kind of.

He's fried.

But [laughter] but truly >> good lawyer. Truly tell I I need to understand that because if it's if it's a real thing, it's a real thing, but if it's just a preference then we have something that we actually need to talk about, right?

Yeah, so I've structured this conversation by saying cuz I brought this up before, you know, why don't you go to local law firm ABC and

yeah, you're going to have some taxes that are going to come or your some payments that are expenses that are going to come out of your payroll, but at the end of the day like we can budget and we can you know,

start to get on the same same page about these things. It's not like feast or famine. Yeah. Building a business is is

different than just being good at the task that the business does.

Right? Yeah, and he it's

It's a good question.

Um and >> we're we're looking at just basic napkin math going if you make 40k, you're not going to pay off 300k.

Yeah, and that's kind of what I've

been struggling with in in addition to the conversation of combining our finances. Here's the thing. You you you married this guy. I'm just going to I'm going to try to shoot you straight here. You married this guy, so so you are one.

Today you're one.

The things that you're talking about, yeah yeah you could benefit from a counselor. It seems like there's some things that you're frustrated with, unhappy with and you've had the conversations and it seems like it's to no avail. You could use a third party mediating between that so that you guys can come to a way that you discuss this and it actually makes progress cuz right now it feels like you you've just hit a a wall and you feel like it doesn't matter what I say, he's not listening on on the issue of him making 40,000 for the fifth year in his own law firm.

Okay. Now as for the combining of money,

I do believe you need to combine your money because at that point we're talking about goals and a shared lifestyle, shared values and so I think that's important to do. Is it that he doesn't want to combine or is it that you don't want to combine because of the things you listed earlier?

No, actually I've been a complete I've wanted to combine just because you know, I married I knew that he had the student loan debt, but at the end of the day like you were saying the goals and the values are much more important to me than you know, other things that we can work through that I knew about.

>> Good. Um but he has been hesitant to combine the finances because um

at some point he's going to have to start paying on the student loan debt and there he's concerned that his payment is going to be larger because >> And there's there's where the values are. >> Here's my thing. I think that's BS. I think this is all about pride and shame.

>> so, too. And he doesn't want to drag you into his mess cuz he made it and he's a big man and he's going to take care of it. I don't think this is about a restructured payment that he's worried about. >> Mhm. Cuz if the goal is to pay the debt come thing off, then the payment amount doesn't matter anyway cuz you'd be paying well above whatever they'd assign to you anyway, right?

Yeah, right. >> yeah I and I've always been I think it's also kind of a diff differences in how we approach debt because I've always been aggressive when it comes to repayment.

Um hence the no debt. Well, this goes back to the goals and values part, which is if you combine, these are the things that you talk about over your your money meetings. You you sit down with your spouse and you say, "Okay, you share here here's where here's what I'm feeling." And I I said told somebody this earlier today. You sit down and you say, "You know what?

I've been feeling there's a disconnect with our money. I feel like this is an area that we really could work to be closer on and have more transparency and have more support for one another. I want to support you. I see the debt that is in your name and I want to help.

the same page. That's the first conversation and start to bring those walls down. That's why I said a mediator can help and then we need to once you get on the same page of yeah, let's pay off this debt. Now it's how intense how intense are we going to get? >> is the budget. So tell you it's a lot easier to pay down 300,000 with a 180,000 income instead of 40. Right.

>> And so you are the light at the end of this tunnel and you need to convince him that this is our debt and we're going to pay it off together and there's no shame here. Put it down. Let's get to work.

Send her a copy of the book, Christian, please. Thank you. >> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Alex is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Alex? What's your question today?

Hi guys. I'm just trying to call in to see if I could make a career change and become like an entrepreneur in my adult life.

Okay. Tell us more. What are you doing now?

I'm a heavy equipment operator.

I make pretty good money, I'd say. I made six figures last year, which I guess just ended a couple weeks ago and that was my first year making that much money. So I kind of got a lot of life coming at me right now. 100,000 or 200,000? Yeah,

100,000, 104,000. Way to go. And what

did you say you had a lot of life coming at you? What does that mean? Yeah.

So my my daughter just turned one actually New Year's Day. Uh my other daughter's going to be born in April uh and I just closed on a house. Woo.

>> Well.

And I'm getting married in October of this year, so. Okay.

Okay. So the question is you're wanting to transition out of your job doing heavy equipment into possibly starting your own business. What would the business be? The the same thing you're doing now just on your own or something different? Uh no, it'd probably be something pretty different, honestly. I was looking at getting into real estate and I was talking to one of my buddies and he was saying that home inspectors make really good money and that when he it was a

specifically mobile home inspectors. He was looking at purchasing one and he said that the only guy in the area was booked out for like a year. Mhm.

Um I was looking to transition into that. So what's I'm trying to get to the core of what's driving this. Is what's driving this I don't like my current job and I'm just looking for something else that seems like it could be interesting. Is what's driving this I need to make more money and this seems like something that could make me more money cuz it's not I love mobile home inspecting, so let me go do that, right? So what's driving this?

>> Right. Well, um I guess be dream of mine as well as like last year like I said I made good money, but I worked a lot of hours and I

just want to be able to be more present in my daughter's lives. Okay.

I see. So it's it's it's time is what you're trying to get back.

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Okay. That's a good place to start and I I think that's noble. I love that. Do you have any debt? No debt?

No, I'm debt free. Debt free.

Um getting getting ready to get married.

>> about to buy.

Yeah, you got the mortgage. Is your your soon-to-be wife, fiance, [snorts] will

she be working or she going to stay home with the kids?

She's a she's currently a stay-at-home mom and she probably will be up until they go to school, I'd say at least.

Okay. >> So probably about five or six years, you know. Okay, so what do you guys need to to live and to accomplish your financial goals? Could you live on cuz here's the thing. Home inspectors, I just looked it up. The average salary is 55 to 62,000 a year.

So I would I don't want you to jump into this and go, "Well, I'm going to be making more. I'll own my time. I'll be an entrepreneur." It may be a grind and you might need to own your own home inspection business long term to be making six figures. And you might yeah and you might have to be an ex like really really good at it, which is brand new for you in that area. So there's I feel like there's a huge curve there.

So here's my question. I like to get the dock, you know, the boat close to the dock. So could you start to go through the the training education process, pass the exams, get licensed if that's required and you know, maybe a year from now we revisit this and see if you're still into it and you want to pursue it.

Yeah, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to you know, start the process now, but then go full time in a year, you know, whatever the timeline is.

I'd actually take a step I I would This is just me based on what I've heard you say. I would take a step back. I would

I would do Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do and figure out what it really is that you would be wired to do that you'd be really good at that you could go into business on your own or that you could pursue as a as a different path. Because this really does And there might be more to it that you didn't say, but it kind of just sounds like, "Oh, here was an idea. I'll just go with that." >> Just a random buddy offhand >> Uh-huh. >> and now it's like total career change.

>> Yeah, and and before you sink time and money and effort, I would really explore your option. Nothing's on fire here. So, you've got time to really narrow it down and go, "You know, what do I want to do? What would I be good at?

What would really light my fire?" Because long-term you're going to want something that you're passionate about doing, so you actually stick with it. The money is not going to be enough.

So, that's what I would do if if I were in your shoes. I would just drill down a little bit more on what what that career needs to be.

Okay. And I'd meet with some people who do home inspections for a living and get their take on the business and your area and what's going on where you can make good money and you know, what's the difference between working for a company versus yourself. I would get all of that laid out and then decide from there. So, we're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Okay. And then when would I know like when I'm prepared to make that leap into becoming, you know, an entrepreneur? It really is like George said earlier. So, knowing that your wife is going to stay home, calculating what your mortgage is going to be.

So, there's a couple of principles I'd go by. Number one, your mortgage can't be any more than 25% of your take home. So, that's going to be so so so key because for a lot of people that's the make or break. So, working backwards and say, "Here's what we think the mortgage is going to be.

Here's what we think it's going to take to operate our lifestyle." And knowing exactly what that number is, so you say, "Okay, I need to be I I need to find a way that I'm doing the job I'm doing now while starting the new business and slowly but surely that business is going to going to start making more and more money. So, you're going to have a period where you're actually working more now." >> Yeah.

And then the goal is you go, "Okay, if I scale this home inspection stuff to full-time, this is what I could realistically be making. If I was doing this 40 hours a week instead of eight." So, that's when you know, "Okay, I'm very clear." And you'll know it. You'll go, "Oh my gosh, I love this. I'm making good money doing it.

If I left tomorrow, I know I've got enough, you know, leads in the pipeline and connections and work that I could leave this heavy equipment job and go do my own thing." Okay. Yeah, I guess my my whole thing was like I'm only 22, so I'm pretty young. So, I got like a lot of time where like now I can, you know, make the jump I feel like before it's like I'm solidified. I see a lot of the guys >> making a jump with a pregnant wife and a 1-year-old and a new home is not the time you want to go eat, pray, love and and pursue your dream.

Right now, you have a family to feed. We can't risk a drop in income. Yeah, and to your point, you're 22. You have time.

You have time, my friend. Do this the right way because what's going to happen is when you start this, here's what could happen. You say, "I'm just going to make the leap. I'm just going to jump." You get into it, you hate it, and you're not making any money, and you're like, "Dang it, why did I do that jump?" Whereas the way we're talking, it also allows you to get your feet wet and decide, "Do I like this?

Is this right for me?" You haven't let your big job go yet, right?

going to jump with both feet and, you know, God will protect me." You don't want to do it that way. And uh Alex, we're also going to send you a copy of Dave Ramsey's latest book, Build the Business You Love, and that'll help you on the entrepreneurship side to really get a clear picture of what this is going to take. How do I grow this thing and not just let it be a little side project and side hustle. Uh and I'm confident, dude, you're 22, you're making $104,000, you're not scared of hard work.

That's really the the secret sauce of being an entrepreneur. People think, "Well, Jade, I want to be my own boss and work 4 hours a week." You're going to work more than everybody else.

You got sold a course and a lie.

Entrepreneurship is working 80 hours a week for 6 years just to get the thing off the ground to hope that you can sustain it and then it's still work from there. Ask Dave Ramsey. He's been at it for 30-plus years. Nothing about it is easy. Nothing about it is passive. If anything, it's more work, but it's rewarding if that's what you're wired to do. So, explore it. I wish you the best.

And those books are going to be really helpful. Jade, too many people they I like that he's at least thinking about this at 22. Too many people call us at 42. They're going, "Hey, I hate what I've been doing for the last two decades and I'm burnt out.

I'm fatigued." He's doing this from a place of strength right now. Absolutely. And so, time is on his side. I think one of the most dangerous things people can do is get rushed cuz when you're rushed, you get sloppy, and when you get sloppy, you make mistakes.

He's got time, and most of us do have time. We make it seem like, you know, we're backed against a corner, but we're not. There's options and there's time, and we can take our time and do it right like the song says.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our Get Started Assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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>> [music]

[music] >> Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get [music] a personalized plan made just for you.

Simply head to the show notes of this episode and click on [music] the link titled Are You on Track with the baby steps and complete the quiz. Nicole is in St. Paul, Minnesota up next. Nicole, how are you today?

Good. How are you? Great. How can Jade and I help?

Um I have a question. Um I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have been for over 4 years now, and I have just been hearing some stories about stay-at-home moms being stay-at-home moms for 10-plus years and then all of a sudden their husbands wanting a divorce and they have nothing, no financial um no credit cards in their name, no retirement accounts in their name, um and I was like, "Oh, that's me." I don't want to be that person just in case in however many years if something were to happen.

financially. >> How does your marriage feel today? Like, how do you feel about your marriage? Is it in a good place? Do you feel like you guys have been in a in a tough place?

We've been in a tough place um for

probably over a year now. Okay. So, is that a Am I right to say that that could affect how this conversation could go and his openness to the conversation?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, honestly. Um I feel like

I I don't suspect that we would want to do that um like to get a divorce or anything, but I mean, the conversation [clears throat] about you saying essentially, "Hey, um you know, I've been thinking about our money and I've realized I I kind of feel disconnected from it, and I've been disconnected from it of my own volition.

I haven't paid attention. I haven't, you

know, I've kind of let you handle that, and I'm realizing that wasn't the right place for me to that wasn't the right stance for me to have on this. It's it's it's our life, [clears throat] and I need to It's almost like you're putting the ball in your court and say, 'You know what? I I need to kind of step up here, right?'" I think that's a good way to approach it. Um how do you think he would receive

that? Is he open to full transparency?

Your name on everything along with mine.

Yes, honey, you are the beneficiary on my 401k. See right here, I'll show it to you. Like, is he open to that?

>> Yeah. I Yeah, I think So, I used to take care of our finances of like the budgeting and planning and all that. Um but then just more responsibilities got on my plate, so I gave that to him.

And it's and I do feel like if I were to bring it up to him and like, "Hey, let's talk about all this." He'd be like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's get you on that." Oh, good. Um but I but I have a a lot of hard time trusting that he'll follow through with that. And so, I'm feeling like is like I I will have to do it if that makes sense. Well, I think that's okay.

If I mean, I will say when it comes to money, there does tend to be uh certain spouses will take the lead more so in certain areas, but as long as the transparency is there and both people want to participate in their best in the areas they're best suited, I think that's okay. So, if you have the conversation, he says, "Yes, 100%.

Here's the password. You know, if you want to pop in there and just check it, that's cool. Yeah, I think that's great.

Um Um now as far as the if the worst

happened, right? Nobody Nobody plans a divorce. So if if the worst happened, uh

would you be protected? The first step is yes, I'm 50/50 on everything. We do things in both of our names, but there's a lot of it that will go into the hands of the courts. And >> In most states, assets accumulated during marriage will be evenly divided 50/50. And you know, if you're a stay-at-home mom, there's going to be spousal support on top of child support.

So unless he's a deadbeat, we've gotten these calls. So I'm not saying it's out of the ordinary. We get the calls where they're like, "Oh yeah, he just doesn't pay and we can't find him." >> him. No, I hope that's not this guy.

I hope he's an honorable man of integrity and character and takes care of his family even if in the event of a divorce. [clears throat] Um but you know, knowing where the money is at, the accounts, the debts, the passwords, the insurance, making sure that your wills are in place. These are things you should do anyways, regardless of what's going on in your marriage, but I think that's wise.

All right, do you guys have a joint checking account? We do. Yeah, we just have we have one we have one bank account. Both of our names are on it. All of our savings accounts are are there. Good. Okay. All that stuff is going to help. Um and I don't even like talking about it in a way cuz I'm not trying to to predict that for you, but I think um for the most part when we do get those calls about deadbeats, there are there

were red flags. Yeah. There were markers there that indicated that this this person might might end up being that type of person. And it doesn't sound like you have that.

It sounds like you got spooked by something you heard. Um and it's kind of like could could you get in a car accident? Yeah, you could, but are you you're a safe driver, you wear your seatbelt. You Do you see what I'm saying?

Um but I can't say that there's a 1,000%

guarantee that somebody couldn't turn out to be a deadbeat, if that makes sense. The good news is the good news is you're a smart woman. If if you needed to, you could land on your feet and I believe that just by talking to you.

Great. >> Is there is there hope that we're going to resolve this? I can you guys go to marriage counseling or is this like, "Hey, we just this is a fork in the road and it it could go either way."

Um I mean, we're doing marriage counseling currently. Good. Um and I think it's helping some. I think this is the big part is um I think they got like the trust of feeling like I can depend on him in these [clears throat] really major things. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah, rebuilding trust is I mean, that's paramount. The whole relationship is built on that. When it's broken, I mean, you it's crazy cuz it takes forever to build and you can break it in an instant. And then you got to rebuild.

And so I'm sorry you guys are going through this. Uh it's it's not a paranoid hypothetical

in your life. This is a a real concern and you have a right to be worried. And then I would go do the things I can control. I would work on me. I would work on my marriage. I would make sure that I have access to the accounts, that I'm a joint owner on anything I can be, that I'm legally protected as far as wills and life insurance and beneficiaries. All of that is wise. Uh

can I ask a question about the kids?

Yeah. How old are they?

Um four, two and a half, and two months.

If it made you feel better, um and I'm not saying you need to do this. I'm just I'm just putting myself in your shoes. If I had

true worry about the future of my marriage, like truly, like, "Man, I don't know if we're going to get out of this." There might be part of me that would start thinking, "If I were to work, what would I be doing?" If if if I had to pick up a job, just hypothetically, if I had to pick up a job, what would I do? What would that look like? Would I need a degree? Would I need money?

If I had you know, having that conversation with your with yourself could be a [snorts] good thing.

>> a new life and you're sort of already living it in a sense. >> I'm not trying to You see what I'm saying. But only you know where you're at in that relationship. And if you were at the point where it started being at I just don't know.

I don't know. That would only That would be the smart thing to do for you and your children and and for him, too, cuz you want everybody to land on their feet. So I'll just throw that out there. Mhm.

Nicole, we're wishing you the best.

calls are heartbreaking when she's like I'm like, "Okay, what's your income?" Well, yeah, you got a divorce. What's the child support? The alimony? Oh, he does He hasn't paid.

Yeah. The court's ordered it. He just doesn't You have a deadbeat, somebody who hasn't been in the workforce for you know, 15 years, like that sort of thing. It's It's very tough.

>> I do think it's wise. And if you were working before kids, you know, keep those skills sharp. There's nothing wrong with that. And maybe you the kids the marriage is great, the kids go to school and you decide I want to go back to work anyways.

>> Exactly. Exactly. >> man, that's that's tough. Um we always say that you know, mar- marriage is grand, divorce is 50 grand.

And that's really sad. But then it becomes, "Okay, who gets what? What accounts go where?" And it just kind of becomes this split, this chasm that you have to deal with. And I mean, you got young kids in the mix, too, which just makes things way more complicated. And it it's heartbreaking.

So the best thing to do is prevent a divorce and have a healthy, strong marriage. Have the accountability and transparency. And that's why we recommend combining accounts. Then there's no surprises. You can't [music] have financial infidelity when she gets transaction alerts on everything I >> Right. Right. Which is what we do in my family. I'm like, "What did you spend?

Okay, I'd rather have that than I didn't know you did that." >> Oh, absolutely. I have every password.

Every single one. >> Sam Warshaw, watch your back, bro. >> Don't try it. He would never He never would.

>> [music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents

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That's ramseysolutions.com/

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13:16, but do not forget to do good and to share. For with such sacrifices, God is well pleased.

Mark Twain said, "Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest." True words. Deborah is in Dallas up next. What's going on, Deborah? How can we help? Yes, I was just wondering um I wanted a

pre-nup. I've never been married before.

Um my fiance has. And I just feel like

I've worked hard, I've saved. And I just

want to know is that a good way to protect myself in the event that something happens. Of course, I don't want a divorce, but you know, things happen. So um just here to get some advice. What's your net worth?

I'd say about 600. 600,000?

Yes. How much of that is your home and how much of it is it a business that you own? Um I don't own a home. I actually

sold my home in the height of COVID and made like 130,000.

I put that in my IRA.

Um so 330,000 is IRA. 120,000 is just my

personal savings. And then I recently did an investment in a real estate property where I'm going to make anywhere between 130 to 150 off of a one flip. Okay. >> Um And how much is the debt on that?

Uh the debt on that is 310, but of course I did a hard money loan. So once that loan is paid off, I pay that back and the profit from the sale of the home will go to me. Again, it's estimated um based off the appraisal of the home before I finished my flip, I would profit anywhere between 120 and 150,000.

Ooh, that's a risky deal. Okay, that's a different call. Let's tell us about him.

How long have you guys been dating and engaged for? We've been dating um four

years. We've been engaged almost a year.

Um he was previously married for 20 plus years with two children. Um they are grown now. Uh and he had to of course

split his assets, his retirement, his They had to sell their home. And of course, his net worth isn't as high as mine. And I'm just I'm just getting married.

Uh he did not, but he was kind of just

left with you know, not a lot after the divorce. Okay. What do you make and what does he make?

Uh we both make the same thing. I'm about a 100 grand a year. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Does your family have a bunch of money? Is your family quite wealthy? Are you standing to inherit a bunch?

No.

Okay. So, what's you think his net worth is maybe a few hundred grand?

I don't even think it's that. Okay.

So, the general I'll tell you the general parameters around prenups. It's not a never and it's not an always. It's if there is a huge discrepancy in net

worth and in income, then it could be wise. And it's really to protect against crazy family versus I don't trust this person and I think it's going south.

Now, in your case, you know, 600,000 you've done very well. And I'm very proud of you. But the incomes are about the same and it's not like you have 5 million and he's in crippling debt. And so, I don't think the variance is so far that I'm like, "Oh, girl, you need to get a prenup yesterday." This is a If you both feel like this is wise and you both feel like this is the move, you can do that.

Well, he's against it.

And why why is that? I'd like to know the heart behind why he's against it.

He just said that, you know, he's never asked me for anything and he feels like

that a prenup is the doorway to saying, you know, we're going to be divorced. And I tried to explain to him that that's not the case that, you know, while we're together as things as we grow financially, we'll both, you know, benefit from what we have and what we grow together. But in the event that something happens, I would like to maintain what I came into the relationship, which would be the

my IRA, my personal savings, and the

rehab and business that I started with the homes. Um but he just says he doesn't he doesn't want to do it. He thinks that a prenup is saying, you know, we're going to get divorced. How old are you guys?

I am 45 and he's 53.

>> [sighs] >> Have you brought this before a counselor or it's just been the two of you talking about it? It's just been the two of us. We only had one conversation.

I kind of left it alone cuz I was [clears throat] like, "Well, I guess we're not getting married." And he was like, "Well, I guess we're not." And I kind of just left it alone cuz I thought it was getting a little heated. I mean, it wasn't a heated conversation, but I could tell it You're at an impasse.

Yeah. So, I didn't I haven't brought it up since, but I really really want it to. >> I'm I'm trying to get underneath this to go how much of this is maybe the shame and baggage and trauma from his divorce and now it's sort of triggering all of that of like, "Well, you think I'm going to go back to that?" And you know, he's sort of having to relive that.

Yeah, I think I don't know if he said that. Yeah, he said that he was young when he got married the first time and I was like, "And that's my point. We're not young anymore." So, you know, I I look at this as a protection instead of a a bad thing, like a safety net instead of a bad thing. But he just he's just against it and I don't know what to do.

Was he Did he have come Did he have fully combined money with his previous He um she They didn't have combined money. He just took care of the household.

willy-nilly do whatever with her money.

I'd love to I'd love for you to explore that more with him cuz it feels like and I don't know, this is just a few minute call with you. >> after 4 minutes. It almost feels like I could see him thinking, "You know what?

I don't want to do that again. I [clears throat] want to be fully combined. I want there to be trust. I don't want to be there this business where I'm over here and she's over there. And then if it goes our separate ways, I'm just left here." I could see I

can see his side of it. I'll be honest, just given the numbers, I would not suggest it for you. I wouldn't say, "Yeah, you need it." Um I can understand your emotion around it. Uh specifically, well, this is his second marriage, you know, is is there a chance that this could happen You know what I mean?

I could see your side of it, too. I think there's a lot of emotion here to work through.

Um and I would say to both of you, if you were both on the line right now, I would just I'm going to just say this cuz this is what I would do. Pray for an open heart, both of you.

And and say, "Let me be open to what they're saying." Because if either of you is coming into this very closed off, it's going to be hard. But if you can pray to be open-minded and have an open heart and really seek to see the other person's heart on this, it's going to it's going to help this come together. And I don't know where it's going to land for you both, but I think that that could not hurt. It won't hurt the process.

Okay. So, I think that was one conversation I would dig deeper and say, "Hey, I don't want to let this stop us from getting married. I love you. I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

I just want to get to a place where we can understand each other." And maybe that means you do get a prenup. Maybe it means you don't get a prenup. But we have to align on this before moving forward. And time is of the essence.

You know, I don't want this to drag on for 3 years of an engagement, will they, won't they >> Right.

And it's also you got to look at the laws. Maybe it's, "Hey, in Texas, only things that were acquired, you know, during the marriage get split." And so, you might go, "Hey, even without the prenup, he's not going to touch my IRA from before we were married." For example. Mhm. Mhm. Got you. So, I'd also get clear on what the the laws are because it may be a moot point. And we fought over nothing. >> Got you. Okay. So, I hope that helps.

>> Yeah, thank you.

Thank you. All righty. Bye, guys. Bye.

Oh, man. Two calls in a row.

Yeah, you know what? I think I'm going to go out on a limb here. With social media, you see a lot more of people's stories. You can see other people's lives, how it pans out.

There's a lot of people telling you a lot and you It's up to us to synthesize that and say, like, "How common in this is this? [clears throat] How real is this? Am I at risk?" And I think we are just open up open up the way >> the edge cases that are crazy.

And so, that's the hard part. And I mean, we the previous call, they were going through some struggles and she was a stay-at-home mom wondering, "Am I protected in the case of a divorce?" And you got one that's on the the post end of that of, "Hey, we found new love, but he's been divorced and I want the prenup to protect what I've built." And that's another part of marriage is, "Are you aligned on the financial values and goals of All right, he's not doing well with money, but I've done really well and therefore I don't want to hitch my wagon." Well, that's that could be a red flag.

Now, I don't that's not their case. He's doing really well. He makes great money.

He just had life happen. But the red flag, going back to that, it matters cuz you and I we've taken tons of these calls and there's always something.

There's that thing that you noticed and you ignored. And in this case, she's been with this guy 4 to 5 years. You know, you can see it. What Are the red flags there? And if they are, listen to them. If they're not there, assume goodwill and assume, "Hey, this is a good guy. Even if it doesn't work out, we'll work it out." Absolutely.

Hey, that's the end of this hour, but remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 26. Debt Always Comes With Strings Attached | September 9, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:08:56 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. David is in New Orleans. Hi, David. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I have about $100 to $110,000 extra

that I just don't know how to invest um at the moment. Um I'm not sure whether to put it towards my house uh to pay off

mortgage or to invest in like a money market fund or like a high yield savings account. I'm just not sure what to do with it. >> Good for you. Where'd you get it?

>> Uh just saving. We're very My wife and I are very very frugal. >> Well, way to go, man. Congratulations.

So, we teach a process to become wealthy. The We have proven that it's the shortest path to wealth called the baby steps. Have you ever heard of that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, baby step one, save $1,000.

You've done that. Two is become debtree.

But the house, I suspect you've done that. >> No, we still have the mortgage at 23. I said except the house is our except the house. >> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. >> You're debtree. Except the house.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Then baby step three is a fully funded emergency fund which is three to six months of expenses for rainy days.

Do you have that separate from this 110 or is it included in the 110?

>> Yes. Uh that is separate from that.

>> Okay. How much is in that fund?

>> Um I would say between uh I mean we have 20,000 in savings um but we have extra that we can put towards that of up to 80 thou um I would say up to about 50,000.

>> Okay. So you have 50 + 110 plus 20.

>> No, I have more than that in total. We have uh that isn't that's included in the money market fund and everything um besides the stocks that we have which is 450,000 that we don't really touch. Um we have total 217 through all our accounts. >> Okay. So is the stock uh in a retirement account?

>> Um no it's in it's in like dividends.

Uh, so it's it's, you know, fluctuates, but we have a guy that's um that

monitors all of that and and deals with all of that. And so it started off at 300,000 um and now it's at 450.

>> How old are you? >> After uh I am 29, my wife is 30.

>> What kind of income do you all have? Household income.

>> About 150. Well, >> you have done an amazingly good job.

Congratulations. >> David, how much is left on the mortgage?

>> 2 230 you said? >> Uh 232. So, I would write a check today

from your cash that's laying around, non-emergency fund, and a little bit of the stock if you had to, and pay the house off today.

>> The reason why we're not sure about if that's the right decision, >> you called and asked me what you should do. >> We're not We're not sure if we're This isn't our forever home. Like, we're thinking that we will probably move in 10 to 15 years. So, we don't is >> So, that means you need to stay in debt.

Well, I guess. Yeah. I mean,

>> no. When you sell the house, when you sell the house and move, they're going to give you a check >> at the closing. You're not losing the money.

>> Gotcha. >> Okay. So, here's the thing. This is coming from two things. Number one, we know that families that pay off their homes, especially families like you guys, you guys are like super savers.

You're amazing what you've done, man.

Okay. So, I'm all I'm doing is fine-tuning one little thing. Okay. When

we did a study of 10,167 millionaires, the typical model of the typical millionaire that we found was they had a million to $2 million net worth and they had, you know, 7800

900,000 in their 401ks, retirements, and stock investments. And they had a paid for home that was 600 or 7 or $800,000.

and the paid for home. Here's what it does. It gets rid of the cash drain on

your income. You're going to be able to save the house payment. You know how much that house payment, how quick that one house payment is going to be a million dollars in a mutual fund? Oh my god, son. So fast.

>> It's going to blow you away how quick that one move turns into a million dollars. So, uh, and you don't have a house payment. And when you walk out in the backyard and you take your shoes off, the grass feels different.

You don't even understand that you're setting down 300 lb of weight that you've been carrying around. And when you set it down, you're going to breathe deeper like cool mountain air into your lungs. So, that's where I'm going to tell you to go.

>> David, what what causes you to be hesitant about it when you were like, "Well, well, well." And you were backing backing up. What's the What's in your mind? What are you thinking? >> Well, because it's not our forever home.

Um, we you know, we are thinking we're likely going to move in about Butter

home. >> Yeah. Yeah. But do you do understand that you still have the money? It's just in equity. It's in the house versus cash in the bank. So you So to to his point earlier, you get it back out. So that's not really an argument. So do you do you have another one though? Are you wanting to keep these stocks?

>> Well, yeah. So yeah, we definitely going to keep this like as in we're keeping

this, you know, whatever amount that we have in stocks left or keep it in there for long term because it's been growing very well um in there. It's just we just

weren't sure if that makes the most sense because of course we've talked to the financial advisors at

I'm also not naive

what's best for the bank as well. I know that so that's why I'm calling into the show. I I want to get >> the pers that's in our best interest not necessarily the best banks.

>> The thing that I the thing that I didn't understand when I first started doing this David and you're a ma you're a wonderful saver. So you're a math nerd like me. I thought this was all a math equation. It's also a psychological, spiritual, emotional, relational equation. When you don't have a house payment, it changes stuff you didn't even know was stopped up. It's weird how

it unleashes you. Your creativity, your

the just you and your spouse walk in. My my my wife and I went for a ride in a little I've got a 1960 convertible. We went for a ride in it last night. We pulled back up front of the house and we both said, "That's a good house."

And it wasn't like a bragging thing. It wasn't like flex thing. It was just me and her. Two two old people in the old car. I mean, come on. You know, I mean, but we're just looking at the house going >> and you wouldn't have felt that if there was a mortgage is what you're saying. Like there's a >> Well, I mean it cuz you don't own it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It changes. You might have said that it's a good house, but you would have said it with a different >> even a tone. Even it changes your tone of voice. I mean, it's hard to grasp all of this stuff until you actually do it.

Here's my challenge for you. Pay off the house. >> And if you hate being debtree, you can go get you another mortgage.

And I've never had any, it's the only piece of advice we give on this show that I've never had anybody call and give me hate mail for after they do it.

Now, all these people that have theories give me hate mail, but they're broke people with theories. I I don't care about their hate mail. That doesn't We burn that. That's good kindling. But the uh but we really don't get I mean I've been doing this for almost 40 years y'all. The number of people that call me back and said, "Dave, you told me to pay off my house. I hate you. You're awful." Is zero.

Zero.

And it's the one debt no one ever goes back into. Like we will talk to people on the show like we were debtree but now we have $15,000 of credit card debt.

Like what? What? Why' y'all do that? Or we were debtree but we now have a car loan. Why do you know? Like we'll get those every now and then. Yeah. But we've never had >> hardly ever. Once you get the mortgage gone, you're like, golly. Oh my.

>> I just was so stressed when we didn't have a mortgage payment. And so I was like, I we got to go back and get one. Let's just go back and borrow on the house so we can invest and do all of this. I'd rather have that. >> I can't stand being debtree. It's killing me. >> Nobody ever says that, guys. Nobody. Do it. You're 29. Give it a try. If we're wrong, you can go back in debt.

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>> Christina is in South Carolina. Hi, Christina. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Good. How can we help? So, my husband and I have been having this real issue lately. Um, he believes that he can

spend the money any way he wants because he earns it because he works for it. And because I stay at home, I I can't spend it because the luxuries of being at home with our son, like the power and the water are my little luxury that I get.

So, he can go spend it on snacks, he can go spend it on drinks, he can do whatever he wants with it, but I'm not allowed to do the same. >> How old is this little boy?

He is 25.

>> How long have you guys been married?

>> We've been married for over a year.

>> How many kids do y'all have?

>> We have one. >> Okay.

>> Um, >> it's a very dysfunctional marriage, Christina.

>> Yes, I have been told that um >> Good. I should we just let him deal with

the finances because he's Whoever told you that's as dysfunctional as he is.

Who told you that? His mother.

>> No, that was him. He said that. >> Oh, he told you that. Okay. I bet he did. I bet he did.

>> Little twerp.

>> Um Oh my gosh. So, um

you're you're dealing with a child.

That's the problem. Yeah. I And I mean I

I try to save money where I can grocery

that's not that's not the point.

>> Okay. Let me back up and tell you the way this should be and then we can put that against where it is. Okay. The way it should be is when you are married, regardless of where the income comes from, we have an income. We both have a

vote on where every one of those dollars

goes. My wife has not worked outside the home in about 40 years.

She has a incredible income

[Music] because we have an incred cuz we have an

incredible income. Okay? And she gets to

decide with me what we will do with our

income. Are you hearing these words clearly? None of that's happening here.

Just because I earn the income at at

Ramsay and with the things I do in my life and she doesn't have an earned income personally does not invalidate her power or her right to a vote inside

the household. She has the same exact

rights as I do. Not only morally and

spiritually, but legally she does. And

if he if he thinks he's in control of his income, let me teach him what a divorce attorney will teach him. He's not in control of his income. They're going to take a big old chunk of it and give it to you and the kid to take care of the kid. So, he really does not have as much power as he thinks he has in the law, much less morally. And he's relationally bankrupt. You treat your wife this way, you won't have a wife long.

>> Cuz honey, you may put up with this for a while, but you're going to wake up in a few years and go, I'm done with you

being a jerk >> and treating me like a secondass citizen. I'd like him to stay home with a kid. Let me tell you, Christina, it's much easier being in a workplace with a bunch of adults than being home all day. It's exhausting. It's absolutely exhausting. You work harder than he does.

>> I can't I think that he does he he's a hard worker. Christina, that's not what I'm saying. Christina, it's not that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying the value you bring to the household is as important, if not arguably maybe more important. You're raising human beings in this household full-time. And so the fact that financially, from a numbers perspective, he has and wants full

control and treating you like a secondass citizen is not okay.

>> This is not okay. You have a dysfunctional marriage. You guys, I I really think this guy needs more than I can give him on this call. Uh if I had him on the call, I could box his ears, but it wouldn't last. Okay. Um but the

uh what you guys desperately need is to get involved in a good strong local church. >> A church that is healthy and doesn't >> a healthy church that isn't supporting his I mean you get >> so but I mean you get you get a church that that lovingly will teach you exactly what we taught you and get some men in his life to teach this little boy how to be a man. Cuz masculinity that's true and not toxic is serviceoriented.

He serves his wife. He serves his kid.

>> And and that's what he should be doing.

And he's doing the opposite of that. You guys desperately need marriage counseling, honey. Desperately. We can't fix him on this call. It's too You have

You're too messed up.

This is just a mess. And And

but what I do want to do for you is to confirm that you're not the crazy one.

Okay? You're the feelings that you're having that this is improper are accurate feelings. They're accurate observations, logical observations. And these are two people sitting completely outside of there. Rachel's marriage does not run this way. My marriage does not run this way. And both of them have a lot more control. >> Any good therapist, marriage therapist would say, it's not run that way.

>> That's not that that that it's a that is a complete level of control and can

start to be in the in the sense that you don't even have the ability to access the money, which then becomes another huge problem. And so it's it's not okay,

Christina. It's not okay. And I didn't like this guy earns a lot of money either. >> He's a big deal on nothing.

>> So, um, this just Yeah, there's so much immaturity here.

>> Sounds like about a 14-year-old boy.

>> Well, and the reason to press into this, Christina, and why it's worth the fight is not only from the financial perspective, getting that cleaned up, but also that mindset doesn't just stay in the money lane of your marriage. that mindset and what he believes about you and your value and what you're capable of starts to bleed into every other part. And so it's not just a one-off thing. This is his character and who he is and how he views you.

And that's the problem I have.

Don't do that to her.

That's not fair.

If your baby is a son, you're teaching him how he's supposed to treat women by accepting the way that you're being treated. Don't do that. That's not fair.

So, you guys are horrible parents because you're modeling out a dysfunctional thing before this brand new baby right now. And so, you've got to work on this, kiddo. You got to go get some help. And you got to demand it.

And we're going to go get some help. I'm going whether you're going or not. And if you don't go, then I may go.

because I'm not going to put up with this. >> And that that's that's where you're going to end up. And I will tell you this, I've coached families on money for 30 or 40 years now. And I I you know, I

don't like stereotypes much, but I see this more often with ladies than I do men. Like 98% of the time, this is a lady. They will put up with stuff for so long and then I don't know what it is in the female psyche, but once that switch

flips once you're done, there'll be

nothing he can do to get you back cuz you will be done. Guys will come back around, but a lady that's just fed up, fed up, fed up, and finally switch flips, they are done. And you can't reel

them back in. I've tried, I've sent them to marriage counseling, I begged them to give him another chance and everything else, and they're like, "Nope, I've had it with this guy. I'm done." and you can't get them back. And that's going to happen to you, kiddo.

It's going to build up, build up, build up, and the switch is going to flip. And this whole thing is going to be over. And if you sound like sweet and naive, and you are right now, but it'll it'll get you'll get over it.

So, you guys need to desperately get some help for your dysfunctional, screwed up marriage because your husband's view is dysfunctional and screwed up. I hope I wasn't unclear.

Hope it's all here. And we have a couple that's on their honeymoon in the lobby.

So, there's your marriage advice.

>> They're going, "Oh, God. Oh, God.

>> To be me." No, no, >> no. I don't think they're that way. >> I know. I know. I know. >> I can already tell they're not that way. >> I just Yeah. You could tell just taking one picture with >> Well, what it is though is, and we say it on the show all the time, majority of relational calls that we get are >> is rarely Well, rarely about the money.

So, she calls in and says, "Well, he says I can't have any say and that my What did she say? her privilege was electricity and food or what?

>> No, that was her luxury. >> Oh my gosh. So, like >> you get >> but but but I need money is how it's presented, but it's like no, dear God, do you need a new marriage? Like it's a it's a marriage issue.

So, whenever those things start bubbling up majority of the time with couples and I would say in our marriage, probably with you and mom too, like when there's a money thing that flares up, usually a deeper rooted thing is something is happening. >> Yeah. Money problems, money problems are not the problem.

And that's the case here, too. There's a power struggle going on here, and you've been losing the power struggle.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There's new trainings every month this every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. Rachel Cruz or George Camel or Jade Wshaw will be in there helping you out. going to show you how to stick to a budget and find thousands of dollars worth of margin using every dollar so you not only get out of debt but you start building wealth and uh you can ask any question during the live Q&A.

A lot easier to get a question in there than it is on the show. Hard to get on there. We we sorry for that but there's only four lines. We only get so many people and it's a lot of busy signals when you call here but uh you can get in there.

Free every dollar trainings with the Ramsey personalities. Dylan's in San Francisco. Hi Dylan. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. Um excited to be on the show. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um so my my question is my wife and I

have a bunch of debt. Um about $2.3

million worth of debt. Um but it's all really low interest rate debt. Um, and I'm wondering if we should be trying to

pay it off as quickly as possible or since we can make more in a high yield savings or in the market, should we sort of take our time and paying off this debt? >> What What is it owed on?

>> So, 2 million on the primary residence

at 2.4% on a 30-year fixed.

>> Mhm. Um, we have a rental residence which has about a quarter million um at

3%, 80,000 in student loans at 1.6%.

>> And then a car loan of about 40,000 at

4%. >> And what's your household income?

>> About 1.5 million, but that's new. It's

>> Congratulations. >> Gone up a lot. Yeah, man.

>> It's gone up a lot. >> You're doing wonderful. What do you do for a living?

I'm a lawyer, as is my wife.

>> Okay, >> good. >> Well, here here's the the thing.

>> Well, real quick, Dylan, do you love it?

Do you love having 2.5 million? Like, are you good?

>> I'm okay with it. So, our our our net worth is like 5.2. So, I feel like it's

it's manageable. I want to have no debt,

but I part of me feels like it's kind of

backwards to >> pay down two and a half% debt when you could earn 4% in a savings account.

>> Okay. All right. It's a good question. Valid question. All right. So, um

here's the thing. The the thing that we

forget that no one talks about and no one teaches is debt equals more equals

risk. More debt equals more risk.

Huge amounts of debt equals huge amounts

of risk. Huge amounts of debt as a percentage of your net worth equals huge amounts of risk. Let me illustrate. Okay, you said you had a $5 million net worth. What if you had a $5.5 million worth of debt at 1%.

You would see you would feel that risk instantly because your net worth is not enough to cover. You have negative net worth. You follow me, >> right? And so even though the interest rate was great, you felt the risk increase when I just gave you the example, didn't you?

>> I did. That would stress me out.

>> Yeah. And and so that that's that's illustrates accurately that debt equals risk because you can literally feel it in your physical body and you didn't even do it. You just talked about it and your body start going, you know, and so that that that that's your risk m meter is measuring that. You're feeling that.

So what is left out of your calculation

of I can borrow this money at 2% and I can invest it at four. I'm making a 2% spread or 2 and a half% spread or whatever it is. What's left out of that is you've not calculated mathematically for the risk.

>> Okay? >> And there is actually formulas to do that in graduate level finance. Um, if

you're comparing a risky mutual fund with a not so risky mutual fund, we measure the volatility of the fund with

a statistical measure of the height and

distance to the valley of the you think the the wavy line that represents the returns. You know what I'm talking about? >> Mhm. >> If it's a real tall wavy line and a real

steep wavy line, that's a risky one. You know what I'm saying? Versus a real smooth one would not be risky. The measure of that mathematically is called a beta in statistics.

And you can actually use a beta to adjust the two to adjust the high risk versus the low-risk mutual fund and compare them apples to apples. The reason I'm bringing all that up is there's actually it's actually a thing until you talk about debt and nobody does it with debt except me. And we started doing it with debt a long time ago to say more debt equals more risk.

you're taking using a thing called a beta and you would see that there's actually no perceived value after adjusted for risk. And so you're kidding yourself is the mathematically is the point. You're not really making the spread because the math formula that you're using is naive. It left out the risk. So you're not being a simpleton at all when you pay off the debt. As a contra on the contrary, you're very sophisticated when you choose to pay off the debt. making this wonderful income you guys have just found yourself in and you're extremely successful lawyers.

Thank you. I'm so glad for you. I'm happy for you. I want you to win. So, the other thing you ask yourself is uh if you extrapolate these things out way into the future, where do you want to be? >> Um you're how old? 29 maybe.

>> I'm 48. >> 48. >> Okay. Wow. Okay. >> Yeah. You sound youthful, Dylan. That's why. Um All right. Well, so when you're 68, when you're 68, do you want a $50

million net worth with a $25 million

debt load?

>> All I want is >> No, I mean, I mean, >> if you I I don't want to extrapolate this out >> because >> I don't want to 10x this if I'm you.

>> And if you don't stop it, you're going to 10x it.

>> And the only reason you would stop it is you decided it's not good. I decided I

want to be free. I decided I even though there's a little bit I might make a little money but adjusted for risk, I'm not really over the scope of time making a ton of money and it's not worth it. I

can choose pick and choose my cases differently. I can grow my law career even more exponentially. Uh if I have

zero things riding around on my shoulder when I'm making these choices. And so I'm going to encourage you to work toward I don't think it's an emergency. I don't think you're bankrupt. I don't think you're stupid. I don't think any of that. But it's it's almost a philosophical discussion in a sense that we're having. Um it is a math discussion and the math I pointed out is wrong. But

it's not it's not going to cause you harm. You can out earn this level of

mistake. It's not that big a deal. But I wouldn't set out to say as my net worth grows, I'm going to grow my debt. And if I'm not willing to grow my debt as my net worth grows, then must be because I don't think the debt's good.

And so since I don't want to 10x it, why would I keep it? Anything that's great, I want to 10x.

Anything that's not, I'd love for you to 10x your income. I don't see anything wrong with that. That'd be cool. I' wouldn't wouldn't call you out. Wouldn't say you're doing something wrong to do that. And so, um, yeah, that that that

that helps me. I I but you are hanging

out with some very um sophisticated people >> who are not very sophisticated with their mathematics if they're making you feel like a simpleton for paying off your debt. Cuz I just walked you through a fairly sophisticated formula >> that you probably never heard before. I suspect I told it to a bunch of MBAs in a college thing the other day and they looked at me like I had invented fire.

And so um but the uh uh so that it's

it's that's how it works. I would pay it off, but I wouldn't be in an I wouldn't be breaking my back to pay it off. I You make a million half dollars, have a car payment, it's ludicrous. It's ludicrous.

>> Yeah, especially the consumer stuff. I'd get that done. I'd get rid of that. That stupid student loan and that car payment. I'd pay that off in about the next two months. But we could make the argument about the rental house and the house a little bit more cogently.

>> Uh but you'd still lose the argument.

Counselor

>> session is a jerk. >> I'm so proud of you, man. You're just killing it. I'm just so happy for you that you're making all that money >> cuz you work so hard to get there.

>> Well, and the other part, and we talked about this in an earlier call, but the the humanity of money, it is not just about the math. There is a level of peace and security and autonomy that you get when you just own everything. I mean, it is like there's just something there. And so, um, that element will not be in a formula or, you know, but it will be at night when you go to sleep and everything's owned and there's just a level of peace and there's not really a price on that.

Like there's something there that's very real and you can outchase and out earn the interest rates here and there, whatever. That can be the game you play. But, um, as Dr. John Deloney says, solve for peace.

Have peace in your life. We live too much of a stressful life. You have a stressful job, Dylan. You know, just eliminate some stress.

Feel free. have autonomy over your life and money and those choices. >> Yep.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Music]

>> Mike's in California. Hey, Mike. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Love it. Um, I just have a quick question to cut to the chase. Uh, I had to take out a loan that I didn't want to take out because of some damage to a home I just uh purchased. I have we're

currently uh in a in a lawsuit to get that money back. So, do I pay it off Gazelle intense the Ramsay way? Uh, or

do I since I I stand to make this money back, do I use my margin to not miss out on compound growth? Uh, no. You pay it

off as quick as you can cuz when you get the money later, you'll have the money later. But until then, you you'll have the debt whether you win the lawsuit or not.

>> Yeah. >> So, we need to get rid of the debt. And they're independent of each other. Having the debt doesn't make you have a stronger case for the lawsuit. The lawsuit will be answered on its merits only.

>> Heard. >> So, yeah, I'd be I'd be done with it.

I'd be done with that debt as fast as I possibly could. I'm sorry you're going through that, though. That's a really uh there's nothing worse than a home being broken except a home being broken and a lawsuit. These are two of the worst things you can go through. Just awful.

I'm so sorry. Wow. Wow. Josh is in

Illinois. Hey Josh, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> All right, so I had a quick question.

Um, so I live with my two younger

brothers and one of them works full-time

and he, you know, fully does his part and another one works just barely enough to just barely cover his his part of bills. >> How old are these people? >> And I'm looking So the one that's barely

working is 20 and the one that is working is 23. >> And you're how old?

>> 25. >> Okay. So, you have one lame roommate, one good roommate, both of which happen to be brothers.

>> Yes, my brothers, unfortunately.

>> All right.

So, I am currently working on paying off

the last bit of debt that I have. And I was considering moving out at the beginning of next year, but I have this like weird sense of like guilt if they're going to be able to survive because the one brother would probably end up still staying with the younger brother and the younger brother, I don't know if that he's going to be able to drag his weight. So, I feel like I kind of have to stay. And I was also thinking of staying anyways because I'm still working on paying off a car that I purchased a couple years ago.

>> Um, partially, but also I have a girlfriend of two and a half years and sometime within the next two years I want to within the next year or two I want to propose and get married and then, you know, of course live with her.

>> Okay. Where would you would you just go rent somewhere else? Is that what you were thinking in the meantime?

>> Yeah, most most likely.

>> Do you think you can find something cheaper?

>> Cheaper? I I doubt it. Okay.

>> What do you make?

>> I make 57,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. Um

Okay. You you make the decisions

uh uh and you give them enough notice

and you make the decisions based on what is the right thing to do. Uh propping up

someone who will not work is not ever the right thing to do. That's enabling misbehavior.

>> Okay. >> That's what I was saying. And so I, you know, you can you can love someone who misbehaves, but you don't have to love their misbehavior.

Okay? Like you can love your little brother, but you don't have to love his laziness, >> right? And so, uh, I would just tell them, "Hey guys, um, this worked for a while. We were a couple of, we're three young guys coming out of the house. We did it together. It worked for a while.

And I'm ready because of this dating relationship. I'm going to start talking about moving out. And I'm giving you like four, five months notice here that that's what's going to happen. And so you guys need to start making plans to be able to move somewhere else or to make up the difference with me being gone or to find another roommate to replace me. Um or whatever it is y'all

want to do. But then what they choose to do with that knowledge is on them, not you.

>> So that that removes all guilt.

Okay. All I can do is present to someone what the situation is. How they react to

it is their decision.

>> Now, Josh, there's not a contract that you guys sign that you'd be breaking in any way, right?

>> No. Our lease ends in I believe the beginning of February. So, >> Okay. Is that when you would move out then?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. That's great. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I would I would tell your brothers I'd tell your brothers over dinner and then I would tell and then I would send an email to the landlord and copy your brothers >> that I'm making plans to leave in February. My brothers will let you know what their plans are, but I will not be here after the lease expires.

I want to let everybody know that and just and give everybody plenty of notice. The landlord knows what's going on. But that also uh gives your little brother gives your brothers a little shock to the system. It's like this is really happening.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't send them emails. That's why I said have dinner with them. >> Have dinner with them and tell them what's going on. >> Okay. >> Check their Gmail and they're like, >> and listen, Josh, don't make this about them. >> This is just what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> This is what I'm doing. >> I just want to let you know what I'm doing. I love you guys and it was fun for a while and now I'm going to go do this and um you know that that's it's

not it's not a it's not you, it's me.

And so, you know, right?

>> So, when it comes to, you know, making this about me, I was considering staying with them because I currently have about $23,000 in debt. It's a car loan.

>> Well, sell it. >> I've See, I've looked into that and I

got it back in 2022 when stuff was super expensive. Kelly Blue Book puts it at >> at most I'm thinking maybe 9,300.

>> Okay. Well, you're pretty stuck. You probably need some extra jobs.

>> I'd work my tail off and get some extra jobs this weekend. >> Yeah. Yeah. just have at it and tear tear into that thing, but I don't think that's a reason to stay. I think you can pay off that car or get rid of that car problem, whatever it is you do with it, whether you're there or not. >> Yeah, but I also heard him say the

little brother is paying. He's barely making the bills is what he said, but he's doing it. So, if it's a situation where you have cheap rent and it's not like affecting the I don't know. I don't know if there's like a reason to >> to get out. Now, if he stops paying and then you have to pick up his slack, then that's that's one issue >> that that's what's happening. Um that we don't exit if everybody's bills being paid. He's not that's he he's it's time

to go, man. It's time to go. Time to go.

Open phones at8255225.

You got to be real careful with um the

uh here's the thing. I I've learned it

the hard way on the show answering these questions for 30 years and also in my personal life that um

the better angels in all of us, the nicer parts of all of us all have the

ability to enable.

We all have the ability to want to make everything okay for someone else. And

sometimes we want it more for them than they do. And that's when enabling happens. Enabling is never good.

Enablers are always when I'm talking to one, they're always the nicest people.

They're just the sweetest people. They just want everybody to be happy and they're just h helpful and but it they they took their sweetness to a toxic level and and ended up giving a drunk a drink. Yeah, the drunk's really happy, but you just gave a drunk a drink. You just said, "Hey, here's some Jack Daniels, buddy." And you know, I mean, just, you know, and so if you're covering for your little brother who's not working much >> and >> Well, I agree if he wasn't paying the bills.

The >> pattern is there. That's fair. Fair >> that there's going to be a problem. I can >> Would you pay an extra $500 in rent somewhere or like would you up the rent to move out? is going to have to of some kind. But I think he's got to get in a functional situation if he wants to enter a functional relationship with a young lady. Yeah. Instead of hanging on

back here cleaning up behind him all the time. And so there's there's some there's some gain there. Yeah. And I think it's going to be the best the best thing for the person that you're enabling >> is when you stop.

>> It's really good for them. Um, it's like I love you too much to participate in your crazy >> I am no longer signing up for the trip to crazy land. You taking a trip by yourself and you just got to you got to talk this through, man. And just go, I love you and no way. No, no, you go do

that stuff by yourself. I don't do that.

And I'm not going to help you do it and I'm not going to finance it while you do it. child of mine, uh, parent of mine,

uncle of mine, little brother of mine, whatever it is.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay host, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Robert is in Florida. Hey, Robert. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am calling because um my wife and I

recently went to Montana for a couple weeks. Um first time we've ever really experienced the country other than the East Coast. And uh we're close to retirement and now we're considering buying a motor coach and spending 2

years uh you know we're still having a home base but two years going on long trips and seeing national parks and and

you know it it's just something that's in our gut that we want to do but I know

how you feel about things with motors and wheels and you know things of that nature. So, considering our net worth,

do you think, you know, we should do this or do you think we've lost our minds? >> Well, what's your net worth?

>> Um, right around 3 million.

>> Okay. All right. So, what would you spend for the bus?

>> Probably 200,000.

>> Okay. So, there's couple way couple ways to look at it. >> One is you say, "Okay, um, did when you just did this other trip, did you take a coach or did you just drive the car?" >> No. No. No. We flew out there and uh we

we bounced around, you know, looked and we went to Glacier National and a couple other, you know, really beautiful places. >> Beautiful. Yeah, that's cool. Good. Good trip. Okay, so um the answer is yes, you

can afford it. Okay, and the way I determine that is this. I use the burn the middle burn the money in the middle of the floor analogy. Okay. So, if I take $200,000 and I burn it in the middle of the floor or I throw it out the window of the car on the interstate just to watch the traffic swerve.

>> Okay.

>> Does that change my life if I have $3 million? No.

>> Right. >> So, if this is the worst possible decision ever, your life is still okay.

>> So, the answer is yes, you can afford it. But then I'll give you some suggestions on things that Sharon and I have experienced. Um the a correlation

might be a second home. Okay. You go we

have friends that go to the beach >> and while they're staying at the beach they go, "I've always wanted a house on the beach, a condo on the beach." Okay.

>> Yeah. >> And and it sparks their interest just like yours has sparked on this.

>> They've never had a house that was a second home and they've never lived on the beach. They stayed there two weeks.

>> Yeah. >> So, what I suggest to them is before you spend $2 million on a beach house, why

don't you just go rent one for 5 months and live there and see if it's all it's cut out to be?

They came home and didn't like it and were glad they didn't purchase. So, the correlation here might be, uh, why don't you rent a motor coach for a month

>> for 20 grand?

for 20 grand >> and let's burn 20 grand up before we burn 200 grand up and make sure it's as much as romantic and as much of a thing as you think it is.

>> It might be and it might not be.

>> You might be I prefer to fly in private

>> charter and rent an SUV than I do drive

with all these yahoos.

>> You might decide that, >> right? >> And about the same amount of money by the way.

>> There you go. I know it's I I know I'm not gonna come out of this, you know, on top as far as money goes.

>> No, you're gonna lose the money.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, absolutely. This is gonna >> But it's what you'll enjoy, Robert. So, one couple doesn't like the beach. Well, we know plenty of couples that do and have and have a house.

>> Go try it and if they had liked it, then buy the house, right? If you like the motor coach after renting it for a month, go do that. But I mean, the number of guys that buy a motorcycle and it sits in the garage 24/7 and they drive it twice a year and they thought they were going to go on all these trips and stuff is a bunch.

>> Okay. Yeah. And you could have rented a stupid motorcycle for the weekend and had the best motorcycle on the planet and gone and done rode through the fall leaves or whatever it is you want to do, right? It's okay.

Go do that stuff. But I'm just saying uh try it before you buy it is what I would do. I'd invest a little bit of money in that. Sharon and I actually did that on a second home area that we did.

We rented a home for 30 days and looked at other homes in the neighborhood while we were there and we loved it and ended up buying a second home in that neighborhood. >> Mhm. >> And but we by that time we had been there 30 days. We knew everything about all the ups, downs, sideways.

when you own another vehicle, you got one more thing that breaks all the time. >> I was going to say that's the other thing is the maintenance >> breaks all the time. It just and you got insurance. It's just a the more crap you own, the more repairmen you have to know. Houses, cars, all that stuff. So, >> more money, more problems.

>> More more money, more problem. That's it. Yeah, that's it. So, no, I mean, I I want you to try it out. I want you to go do it. You can afford it is the answer to your question. >> But before you turn this one weekend trip into this $200,000 decision, >> I would baby step into it. No pun intended. >> That's exciting, Robert. Yeah. >> From the way you were talking, I think you and your wife, I think this will be the retirement.

I think they're going to like it. >> I think they'll like it. Yeah. >> There you go. There you go. That's the thing. So now if Well,

Mark isn't Mark. I'm just I'm not going Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Mark.

>> Hey there. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, man. What's up?

>> So, I'm at this crossroads. I'm 57 years old. I've been trying to do the baby steps. I'm all out of whack as far as the order, I'm sure. But sort of where I find myself is I'm looking at potentially work changing a little bit for me in the next say by the end of the year or me changing myself. So basically

where I am financially I'm trying to figure out I think I know the answer is I've got about 310,000 saved owe about

240 on my house. I have about 450 in IRA

and I was debating on should I try to play catchup a little bit before this potential change happens as far as my income >> or should I just pay the house off, be done with that, >> pay the house off >> and move on.

>> I pay the house off by nightfall.

>> I wouldn't have that money in the bank and have a mortgage. >> You borrowed on your home to have money in the bank, >> right? Net was at.

>> Yeah. Net net. So, what are you talking about change? You're going to make less income.

>> Yeah. Why? >> Like right now between my wife and I. >> I'm sorry. >> Why?

>> Uh just potential work downturn in work

right now. >> What field are you? >> I mean I uh advertising.

>> Okay.

>> So I and the other thing is I'm also looking at as I may want to just change my life as well. In other words, not keep pursuing that, but try to do something that has a little bit more impact and uh gives back a little bit more. So, I'd be maybe talking about just a life change in general versus pursuing that. >> Okay. Well, you would be a lot more free to do that if you didn't have Al payment.

>> I mean, that's kind of what I was thinking. >> Yeah. You read Halime by Buford?

>> I'm sorry. >> Have you read a book called Halime by Bob Buford?

>> No, I have not. You got to pick it up and read it. You're describing it.

>> The second part part of your life. >> Yeah. You It's the Yeah. First half, back half, particularly with males, they spend the first half of our life in acquisition. The second half searching for significance.

>> That's sort of where it matter. I've done a lot of things to help a lot of people in advertising world pursue what they wanted to do. And now I'm sort of like I I don't feel like I've given back as much as I'd like to give back and actually make an impact. You know what I mean? on things in a positive way.

>> Yeah, I agree. I I think that's cool. I think it's good and and you need to pursue those issues and take them to ground either whether you do it inside your career or with a separate career.

Um either one's fine with me. Yeah. Pick that book up. You'll like it. It's called Halime by Bob Buford. It's a really It's an old book, but it's a great book.

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[Music]

Michelle is in Florida. Hi, Michelle.

How are you?

>> I'm doing all right. How are you all?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm calling for your advice today.

Um, I lost my husband about six months ago. >> I'm sorry. >> Um, thank you. >> How long How long were you married?

>> Almost 30 years. >> Wow. Okay.

So, um, he was just like a couple year.

We could have retired, but he wanted to work for a couple more years. And we have two homes. They're both paid for.

Um, one is in Florida and one is in Utah. And our plan initially was to go back and forth between the homes, but now that he's passed, I'm just I'm calling to kind of like, what would Dave do? Um, financially, I'm just wondering

if you think it would be better if I sold one of the homes or both the homes or um, and you know, diversify and invest that money or in the long run, what would be best financially for me?

>> Well, well, I mean, um,

why would you keep both of them?

Well, I was thinking that um mostly for

investment like one I would live in and then the other >> So, where are you planning to live?

>> Something >> I'm not I'm not sure yet. I I kind of vacasillate. I would like to go out to Utah, I think. But my job is here in Florida. My friends are here in Florida,

>> but I would like in in Utah.

>> I do, but they're grown. The last one launched this year. And >> where are they?

Uh, three of them are in California and one is in Georgia.

>> Okay. Do you have grandkids?

>> Uh, no. >> Okay. >> Not yet. >> Okay. But the potential would be California, it sounds like mainly. Okay.

>> Yes. Yes. >> All right. So, you're you're you're how old?

>> I'm 55.

>> Okay. And your life is currently centered in Florida.

>> It is. >> So, what would what's the draw to Utah again?

I just like it out west. I like the mountains and >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Yeah, I like >> And they're both paid for. Did he have life insurance, Michelle?

>> He He did. He I mean, honestly, he left me in a really really good situation. I have choices. So, I I have about uh you

know, I have over a million in like Roth IRA and a 401k and I have about 600,000

just sitting in a high yield savings account right now that I'm trying to figure out what to do with. >> Okay. >> Okay. I would I would only want to own a home where I'm going to do life unless I

was going to actively use something as a second home. And I don't I like the

mountains is not I actively use Utah as a second home. Is this like Park City or

>> it's south of No, it's it's south of Salt Lake. Um >> but in the mountains or is it just in a suburbs? >> It's it's in the Wasach. It's in the suburbs. It's in the like the Wasach Valley area like I have for my house.

>> It's a beautiful area. Okay. Um, and

>> yeah, another way to ask this sometimes is I reverse engineer it in my own head.

Would I do it if I if I didn't have a house in Utah today and I'm a a six-month widowed

and I've got my life centered in Florida. I like Utah and I like the mountains. Would I go buy a house there or would I just go up there and stay some?

>> I don't hear house in this.

>> Okay. I hear visits.

>> Yes, it is visits right now because we were both still working. >> Yeah. And you're still working. I mean, you're not shutting your life down in Florida.

>> No. Well, >> I guess you could. You probably have enough money to retire.

But you're probably not going to go to Utah where you don't have any connections and sit around all day.

>> No. >> That's weird. >> Not wise. >> That would be lonely. I guess I guess I was wondering cuz my house is worth so much more here in Florida and I thought maybe that wasn't wise either.

>> No, I think you're fine. What's it worth? What's the one in Florida worth?

>> About 1.5 or 1.6.

>> You're fine. It's not >> Okay. >> It's still It's still not >> And it's paid for. >> It's paid for. >> It is. >> And the house. Yeah. I I I I I don't think you're going to get the incremental joy and use out of the Utah house with with him in heaven that you were going to have before. But I do think you still love the mountains and you'll probably go up there and visit some and do some vacationing there.

>> But you're probably not going to and you don't want to rent it.

>> That would be a horrible idea.

>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. renting something halfway across the country is really you would never say you never say I'm sitting in Florida and I'm going to go buy a rental house in Utah.

>> That just that wouldn't be logical. You would want to buy a rental house in the area where you are if you want to own real estate but um I mean there's no

rush as you said you've been left in a wonderful condition and if you want to take some time and pray about it it's only 6 months you could you can take some more time if you want. I would not rent it. I would only keep it if you feel like you're going to get enough use of it to justify owning it and

maintaining it and paying the insurance and the taxes, which is probably going to be 100,000 plus a year,

>> utilities, maintenance, um taxes, property taxes, uh and uh so

forth, and you know, making sure everything's taken care of just for it to sit there to be there when you want to go visit. And I I really think you could go, you know, to the montage at Deer Valley and stay for a long time for 100 grand, >> right? That makes, >> you know, >> that's why I called you. >> Yeah. And I but but I I also I'm fine

with 30 years of marriage and your your life just got changed. And if you take a minute and cry and think about it, I'm okay with that, too.

>> Okay. >> But please don't rent it. Please don't rent it. you you you'll hurt your own feelings if you rent it cuz your dream is going to have renters living in it.

Your old dream that's dead now >> and and it's going to have renters and you're not going to like that emotionally. Don't do that. Don't do that to yourself. So, sell the house before you rent it. But I think you're going to I think you're going to sell it and you're going to enjoy the money in other ways doing some other stuff.

>> Yeah. Put it towards um the travel end

of it versus owning it. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can just you can move about the country >> as the commercial says. Yeah. Yeah.

That's um Wow. >> I'm sorry, Michelle, though. That's hard. >> It changes everything. >> Well, and it's probably a level of letting go of kind of what you said of of what Yeah. of what it's supposed to be. So, there's like a little bit of that grief. >> It wasn't supposed to be this way. We were supposed to finish up working and get to go to Utah, you know, and >> it'll be a sad selling for sure.

>> Yeah. It's It's >> And it's not even um from like a

touristy standpoint, you know what I mean? Like you wouldn't even want a VBO like not even like longterm or short-term rentals. Oo,

>> you cringe. Wow. >> VBO. Yeah. No, that's >> or V ver Verbbo, I think. >> I know, but we're talking about we're talking about serious amount of maintenance now. >> Mhm. >> You're now running a hotel. That's different than renters. That's another step up of Yeah, that's Oh, man. Now

you're buying sheets. Yeah, this is Oh, gross. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right, Dean is in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Dean. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Um, how are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> So, I got myself in kind of a bad situation here. I um I had an ex- fiance

and I co-signed a car refinance

uh when we were going to get married. She had over a 25% APR on her car. She

was drowning in the amount of interest she was paying. So, I co-signed it, got it down to a 7% 5-year loan, and

suddenly she stopped paying for it.

>> Shocking. Uh, she isn't. Yeah, she's not

um not being cooperative with me or the bank. >> So, wait a minute. Do you you don't have any ownership on the car, right?

>> None at all. None at all, sir. >> Okay. All right.

Uh, how much is how much is owed on this car that she's going to get repoed on you?

>> Uh, about $7,000. And it's a 2013 Kia

Soul. It's probably not worth more than a thousand. And I think they'd be very lucky to get 500. Okay. All right.

Um, I got really bad news, dude. You

can't The amount of money is not worth suing her over. You're going to lose

some money here after they repo it, and you're going to get your credit tagged after they repo it. >> And you're going to end up writing the bank a check for three or $4,000 to get your name out of this mess before it's over. You could start on that now if you wanted to, offering them three or 4,000 to release you and let them go after her. But good luck with all that. When I

do something stupid and it costs me money, man, I call it stupid tax. So when you write this check in the four column, write stupid tax.

[Music]

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Guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, please click the share button, the follow button, the subscribe button. Let people know we're here. Tell people about the show. Spread the word for spread the love. You are our marketing plan. We appreciate it. Guys, if you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? How would they afford groceries?

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or click the link in the description and we'll help you out. Josh is in Pennsylvania. Hey Josh, how are you?

>> Good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I'm calling in. We We had $90,000 of

debt. We have paid it down. We only have 28,000 left. Um, and we have about

20,000 in crypto that I've had for years that has just kind of sat there like everybody else has. I'm just wondering, should I liquidate that to just get through baby step two here and just finalize everything?

>> Yes.

>> Simple answer. >> Yeah. Anything that you had money in that was not retirement, >> we would tell you to liquidate it and clear your debt, >> okay? >> And focus very intensely on your debt because when your debt is cleared up, you then have control of your most powerful wealth buildinging tool, which is not investments. It's actually your income.

And when your income's all going out in debt payments, you've limited your ability to build wealth.

>> Correct. I mean, look, followed you guys religiously for a while. Well, not too religiously. You've got $20,000 in crypto, so you weren't real religious about it. But um but the uh um I mean semi I mean, you went to church on Easter, but that was it. And so um but that so anyway, the uh uh anyway, the thing is, yeah, if you had the money in Apple stock, if you had the money in

uh mutual funds, if you had the money in a money market account, if you had the money in a shoe box under your bed, we would tell you the exact same thing to liquidate it. and um put and pay off your debt as fast as possible. It just gives us a little bit more joy when it's something as stupid as crypto to tell you to do it. So yeah, but yeah, definitely go do that for sure.

>> When is a world that Dave Ramsey would ever buy crypto?

>> I don't gamble much.

I'm >> If it ever became a proven investment for you, >> well, it's not going to be a proven investment because it's a commodity. Um, and commodities are never a proven investment there. That's a problem.

Commodities like gold or oil. I don't buy barrels of oil either. >> Sure. >> Um, because Yeah, exactly.

And I don't buy blockchain and so I don't buy crypto. So, um, it's a currency. I don't buy the yen and I don't buy the Deutsch mark. >> You can invest in the Deutsch Mark or the Yen.

They're a proven currency. You could look at the track record and see what the how that is done versus the USD, right? Or the the euro. I mean, you could you could it's like it's a currency.

It's crypto >> currency. Yeah. And so a digital currency, so you could, you know, but I don't invest in currencies. So crypto is no exception.

um appealing because it has the least track record of all of them today.

Someday though, it could have a long track record and it could be very >> much more legitimate than it is now.

>> Right now it's just all the cool kids doing stupid stuff. And it's just it's maddening because people are using up their wealth building power that they could have actually become wealthy and they get screwed over trying to be cool and um because it's very fattish. Um

it's as dumb as Beanie Babies or um

>> well, >> you know, really I mean people were buying Beanie Babies and were and I've had people call me on this show in the old days and >> your wife. >> My wife but No, no, no. She bought Beanie Babies like crazy, but she never once said it was your college fund. >> Oh, true. Yeah. >> I had people put their kids college fun in Beanie Babies. Princess Diana bear.

We had a special >> Yeah. Can you tell me one that has sold?

I I got one. The dog carries it around, but I don't yet know one that has sold.

>> I know. >> They're supposedly sold for $10,000, but I've never seen one. They're for sale on eBay, but no one's ever bought one. So, um anyway, it's hilarious. I mean, you know, we had you were you were a baby and there was a thing that went around. people decided they were going to instead of investing in uh cattle um and

uh pigs, they were going to buy emus

because emu meat was uh somewhat like ostrich meat and we had emu we had friends that bought farms and bought

emus.

I mean this is the same it's the same category for me as crypto. I mean, it's just the same.

It's just a fad and Beanie Babies and so it's just because it's just something everybody's into and all the cool kids are talking about it and it's dumber than crap and it's just, you know, people are just doing it in mass and so uh because they're losing their butts.

They really are >> and and so >> well the amount of what's wild to me is the amount of scams >> and the amount of scams >> within it and the amount of things that people have lo I mean so much money people have lost in it. >> Yeah. I mean that the other day we were took a call Jade and I caught a catfish.

I mean Jade caught the catfish. The guy was catfishing this girl from Russia.

She had never met him and her boyfriend in Russia wanted her to cash out her 401k and put it into crypto with him and she'd never met him physically.

>> It was a complete, >> you know, romance scam over the internet, but they're using crypto to do it. So, oh my god. I mean, that stuff's everywhere. We're getting that stuff in here like in by the title waves into our offices by email. Help us with this.

Help us. We're not the FBI. We can't help you with this. It's just, you know, try not doing stupid stuff. That'll help. It's just, oh my gosh. Wow. Bless.

It was so sad, too. Like, it was the first time maybe she ever realized that she didn't have a real boyfriend was when Jade told her.

>> It was awful, >> man. >> It was just devastating. >> That's why we all need friends.

>> Yeah, right. People need people. John is

in Louisiana. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> It's good. It's good. Hey, uh got a blessing brought on us. Uh my parents are gifting us their modular home and

about 3 acres of land on their property.

And uh I guess really I have a few questions, but my first one is should we use the money that we received from selling our current home to remodel and upgrade the place that we're receiving or should I pay off some debt with that money?

Okay. So many questions. Um, how much

debt do you have?

>> Uh, once my house is sold, my current home, I would have about 60,000 60 to 65,000 in vehicles. That is it.

>> Okay. Um, so, uh, and but I mean, you're getting money from your current home, right?

>> Yes. Yes. If I owe 140, we should sell around 190 to 210 somewhere in there.

Mhm. And you have other debt that you would use that money for. You're asking whether to pay the cars off with that.

>> Yeah. Should I pay the cars off with it or should I fix up the home? Because >> you should pay the cars off. You should pay the cars off or you should sell them. What What do you uh What do you make? What's your household income?

>> Uh together we make We bring home uh $77,000. >> Okay. You don't need $65,000 worth of cars, sir. And you're going to be broke your whole life, >> right? >> You got too much You got too much tied up in cars.

>> Okay. Yeah. Uh we do have a little plan uh with the no house payment. Obviously we plan to pay both vehicles off in two years. >> Doesn't matter. You still got $65,000

you're going to turn into 10,000 and you don't make enough money to do that.

You've got too much of your life invested in things going down in value rapidly, whether it has debt or not.

>> Yeah, John, we would say anything with motors and wheels, it should be half your annual income. So you guys should have closer to like 30 $35,000 >> max.

Your cars are killing you.

>> Yeah. >> You owe almost as much on your cars as you do your house.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, it's about half. Yes. >> I know. It's devastating. Okay, that's first part. Second part. Modular modular

house. Help me with that. Is this a trailer? mod. The difference between the difference between a modular home, I got a a definition pulled up. Uh modular home and manufactured homes, the modular homes are factory-built homes that are essentially the same as traditional homes once assembled. So, pretty much they're made >> if I walk up to it, I can't tell that it

wasn't stick built.

>> Uh no.

>> Okay. So, there's wall sections put together, but and they came on a truck, but and that's modular. That's the proper definition. But I can't tell that this house what it doesn't remind me of a trailer. It reminds me of a house.

>> No, sir. Yes. It reminds you of a shotgun style house. >> Okay, then you can fix that one up.

That's fine. But if you can tell, if it

looks like a trailer, it's a trailer.

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[Music]

Natasha is in California. Hi, Natasha.

How are you?

>> Oh, I'm doing great, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes, my husband and I have um a little bit of debt um but we also have savings

and so I was wondering if it'd be a good idea to take from our savings to pay

down our debt. >> How much savings? How much debt?

>> So total savings is 75,000 45 in just a

regular savings account 30 in a separate IRA or simple IRA.

>> Oh, so part of this is retirement money.

Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. So 35 and say it again the >> 45 in savings. >> Okay. And how much debt? >> And then uh 65,000 total

>> on what?

>> One is a business vehicle and uh one is

business credit card and a consumer credit card from our personal.

>> Okay. They're all consumer by the way because the business was not loaned any money. It doesn't have any money. You signed them personally.

>> Yes. >> You qualified them as business. No one else did.

>> Okay. >> Just to help you. The law doesn't see it that way. In other words, the bank doesn't see it that way. They didn't loan that business any money. It doesn't have any money. So, um >> Yes. >> So, is that your husband's work truck?

>> Yes. >> What's he do for a living?

>> Um, we own a film production company and an event production. So, it hauls all our equipment. >> Gotcha. Okay.

>> How's the business doing? Is it making money? >> Well, yes. Yes, we make money.

>> Good. Good. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> All right. Um well, what we teach folks,

um in the business, you should be holding back some of your profits in the business account for retained earnings,

which is a savings inside the business to cover the eb and flow of business and cash flow. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, you got to be keeping some cash over there to cover different bills that come in before the customers pay their bills.

Okay. payables versus receivables, cash flow and um and probably even for some

growth if you want to buy some equipment or things like that, you'd have a little cash over there. So, start setting aside a percentage of your profits in the business to keep there in the business.

Then what comes home we work with to run the household and that would include paying off all of our debts. Um

[Music] how much what kind of income what's your household income off of this business? What what's the taxable income?

The total taxable income um the is

184,000 >> the profit >> for both of us. >> No. Um >> that's not >> currently you'd only pay taxes on our

>> Okay. So yeah. Oh yeah. So then that would be our profit.

>> Okay. So that that's >> my husband also has a a 9 to5 like he

also earns a salary. >> Oh I see. Okay. Um

All right. Yeah, I want to clear these debts whether they're whether they're labeled business or whether they're not as fast as possible. So, yeah. So, anyway, in on the personal level, what we teach folks is what we call the baby steps. And the first baby steps have only $1,000 saved. Everything above that that's not retirement, we would throw at the debt. So, the answer to your question is, yeah, we would take most of this 40,000 and throw it at the debt.

But in your situation, I probably need to pull some of that 40,000 and set it

in the business account to make sure we've got enough to cover the slush. I'm talking about. Okay. >> Yeah. Is there any savings in the business right now? Do you have any money set aside?

>> Not savings. It just sits in the active account. >> No, but I mean, how much is in there?

>> Good question. Um about we roll over maybe about 3 to 4,000 a month. Okay.

Like that just or some months are good, some are, you know, it just >> Yeah. You need to keep a little in there so that it doesn't drain back out of the house. Okay. And then past that, we're going to pay off the debts, smallest to largest, and I'm going to um pay the

40,000, all of it, but uh $1,000 at

these debts. Um it sounds like that's going to clear up everything but the truck and a big bunch of the truck,

>> right? Yes. We owe 39 on the truck.

39,000. >> Okay. And so you've got 16,000 in other

debt.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Cut up the business credit card. Quit using a business credit card.

Make the business cover itself.

>> A debit card is all you need there. Make it cover itself. It has to has to cash flow its own deal.

>> It has to it has to create money, not drain money. And so when you sneak off money over on the side on the credit card, it makes you feel like you're doing better in the business than you actually are. And so, uh, you got to get rid of that problem from a business management or acumen standpoint. And then um uh but if we clear if we pay that credit card off and cut it up, we pay off 16 out of the 40 and then we start throwing chunks and chunks and chunks at this car.

which in Eur's case is probably 30 or $40,000 again. I want you to get back up to that $40,000 number by this time next year. Um, but you could do that. You could be debtree and be back to your $40,000 number by this time next year if you concentrate on it and tighten up your budget really tight. >> Yeah. And the fact that you guys have other jobs. I mean, he has another full-time job, too, on top of it.

>> It's a total of $184,000 household income >> of everything. >> Yeah, that's what she said. >> So, it's good. Yeah, you guys can do that. >> That that's that's reachable there.

Megan is in Delaware. Hi, Megan. How are you? >> Hi, I'm well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I'm calling regarding two investment condos that my husband and I own. We've owned them for about 20 years. Um we have a fidiciary advisor who's advising us to sell them and buy um two one or

two multifamilies in a different state um where we could possibly or hopefully get more rent um for compared to what we're getting now. And my question to you is, should we do that or should we sell the apartments um just take the equity and get hit get get the tax hit but then just have the equity and and not have any more investment properties anymore? >> Yeah. Um multif family is uh very

intense to manage because it's multi-family and um being in another state is a nightmare as far as I'm concerned. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate and I don't own any multif family in another state.

>> Oh. >> Um >> yeah, I think that's part of our problem too is we're overwhelmed. We have kids and we both work full-time and we're overwhelmed. >> I think this fiduciary adviser is telling you what he wishes he could do, not what you should do.

>> Yeah, it she she owns a lot of

multifamilies herself. That's kind of how we found her. And um >> you found her because you were looking to do multif family.

>> No, we found her because I I had it was hard to find an investment um or an advisor who um would help us with our real estate because we have so much equity and so much of our wealth is in real estate and in our 401ks that I see.

>> Um yeah, I wanted somebody who specialized in it. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you got that's fair. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's a fair assessment. And but she's going to take you. I mean, you know, when you're a hammer, everything's a nail, right? >> Well, and if you're tired right now, Megan, then that's that's that's triple

quadruple >> tires. You're not you're not getting rid of the tired, >> Megan. Um, we put her back on. I want to ask her.

>> Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Megan, how if you sold if you sold both of those, how much would you guys net out if you sold your condos and didn't buy a multif family?

>> So, they're worth 1.6 6 million together and we own one of them outright and we have 120,000 left on the mortgage.

>> Okay. >> With the other one. >> Okay. And what's your what what's in your 401k?

>> Um my husband and I together have 4.5 million. >> Way to go. >> Gosh. Well done. >> Good job. >> Well done. Well done. >> Thank you. >> Proud of you. Yeah. Um if you don't want to own real estate anymore, then because of the hassle of it, then you don't want to own multif family in another state.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. If you do want to own real estate, there's it's okay.

>> I'm so worried down the line because I hear you and and so many wealthy people who have a little bit of both. And I'm afraid if I sell it, then I won't have any more real estate. Is that okay?

>> That's a good question. >> It's okay if you don't want real estate.

I mean, I know people that hate the idea of owning real estate because it is a real estate gives you a much greater rate of return than the stock market will, but it's also a much greater hassle factor.

It is. Yeah. >> Yeah. You don't you don't have the neighbor you don't you don't have a tree fall in the neighbor's yard when you own a mutual fund.

>> Yeah. And if you guys are tired, Megan, I would I mean just you could sell them and then spend a couple of years just investing and then if you guys want to get back into real estate, you can, you know, >> go into a type of real estate that's much less intensive.

the other end of the spectrum on mental calories.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Sarah is with us in

Detroit. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am calling. I am recently divorced and

the mom of two teenagers and I'm trying to figure out my best path forward with my retirement money. I was never the one

in the marriage who focused on this. And so in listening to your show, I'm really all over the map with my baby steps. But

the one thing I do have, I was able to keep my 401k.

>> Good. >> Uh with the divorce. >> Good. >> I have $933,000

in my >> Oh, good for you.

>> Not bad for somebody that didn't know what was going on. You got a million bucks, girl.

>> I know. I know. I'm 47. I am a a I'm a

child welfare worker.

>> Um, and with my job with the state, I'm

actually able to convert that 401k to a Roth IRA.

>> And I hear that you say on your show that Roth is better than 401k. So, I'm trying to determine if that is how much

would I be paying like tax implications.

Is this smart to do at my age?

>> Are you still working?

>> I am still working. I can retire in about five years. I don't anticipate retiring in five years given my um income. >> I would I would change your current contributions to be Roth only, but

that's different than the 933.

>> Anything of the 933 that we move to traditional is going to be taxed.

>> Now, now I'd like for you to do that over time, but in context with a bunch of other things going on. not just go, "Hey, let's write a $250,000 check in taxes and move $800,000 over instead of

950." Okay? Or 700,000 instead of 950, okay? Because that's what it's going to do to you. And I wouldn't do that.

>> Okay. >> It's going to cost you 250 grand in taxes to move this right now. And I wouldn't do that. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, but I do want you to systematically move it over a number of years in context with everything else you're doing that we've not gotten to yet.

Okay, so you've done a great job.

Congratulations. You're a millionaire >> and from this point forward, you're going to make contributions in the Roth.

So, call HR, change your cont change your 401k from this point forward to be

Roth contributions. Okay.

>> Roth 401k. >> Roth 401k. >> Okay. She's asking about a Roth IRA.

>> You have a Roth 401k. Is this Roth IRA now?

>> No, it's not. I have the ability to switch it over to a Roth IRA. >> No. Yeah, you can switch it to a Roth 401k. You can't switch it to a Roth IRA unless you quit. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay.

>> You can't move a 401k while you're currently employed. >> But you could, >> but you could roll it to the for a Roth 401k and do the same exact thing. That's what I was talking about. >> Do you have a Roth IRA, Sarah, or just a traditional IRA?

>> It's a traditional 401k.

>> I I just have the traditional >> 401k. Yeah. >> Well, she should open a Roth IRA as well. Yeah, that'd be that wouldn't be a bad thing. Are you debtree now?

>> So, I only have I'm I'm working on it. I

just have final lawyer fees that I have to pay, but I should hopefully in the next in the next two months, I should hopefully be done with that.

>> Good for you. >> But then I do have to save up for my um

>> 3 to 6 months. That's and and it's crushing me to not continue putting money in my 401k or opening up the Roth.

>> That's okay. You you need you listen, you've been through hell and you need an emergency fund.

>> You're going to feel better when you got 20 or 30 grand laying around and then you go back to your 401k. You're okay.

You're not going to retire with dog food, kid. You got it. You did it.

You're a millionaire. >> Thank you. >> Okay. You're okay. Thank you. >> The only question now is just how we can maximize it. Not not are we on are you're not going to be homeless. I mean, you're good. So, we're good shape. So, uh, what I will tell you is jump on ramiesolutions.com and click on Smartvevestor Pro and find

someone in your area that that's the people that we recommend in that world that will sit and spend some long form time with you and catch you up because what you are is a smart intelligent person that does not have this particular information.

>> Correct. >> And so, you've got a little bit of learning to do, but it's not difficult learning. and the Smart Investor pros.

We will not send people to investment people unless they have the heart of a teacher because I want them to teach you so you're making the decision with the information they give you, not my guy told me to.

>> Okay? >> I want you to be confident and competent going forward because that creates a sustainable situation. But what it's going to look like, Sarah, is pausing at all that retirement right now, not doing anything with it, pausing it, getting that cash save for your emergency fund.

And then what it'll look like in four years probably is that you're going to have a Roth IRA as one account that you're going to be funding. >> You're going to have a 401k traditionally >> and then a Roth.

>> And so you'll and then slowly moving some of that money, >> move some of that traditional to Roth each year without tripping your tax bracket. >> That's right. That's right. And that's what they're going to help you do. Y >> uh and so over a 10-year period of time, you're going to move it all to Roth, >> but instead of just writing a singular check upfront, boom, and taking the hit.

I wouldn't do that. >> Um I'd move it gradually and let someone help you do the math on that and show you why you're doing it that way.

Rachel's exactly right. Yeah, you'll get the lawyer's fees and the emergency fund cleaned up and then you can start your 401k back, but start it back as a Roth and you'll be doing a Roth individual on the side. And then the last step will be to gradually start moving some of this 933 into Roth inside your 401k unless

you leave. And if you leave, you can move it inside of a IRA. Either one would be fine. So, very good. Very good.

Wow. She's done great. >> Mhm. It's great. Sarah, >> we have talked to several multi-millionaires today.

>> Mhm. an unusual number.

>> A lot of people do >> for one particular day. >> Yep. >> Uh four million, 8 million, >> three million, a million with her.

>> Um pretty cool. >> It's great. >> Pretty cool. Folks are doing better out there than a lot of people think folks are doing out there. >> Uh it turns out the stuff that that we're talking about around here works.

Uh some of some people are doing it without us talking about it because they never heard of us. Some people are doing it because they followed exactly what we told them to do and they become baby steps millionaires. So, but either one works. I mean, we're just happy.

We're happy for you when you succeed and um and we're going to love you enough to tell you the truth, whatever the situation is and uh and help you get, you know, help you get things aligned so that you can succeed in all of these things.

It's only 20% had knowledge.

the mathematical knowledge to become extremely wealthy you learn by the sixth grade in most schools.

Okay? It's compound interest is multiplication. That's all it is. It's not if you know how to do multiplication, you're ready to go. So,

you know, and then you can add and subtract into a budget and tell if you're spending more than you make. So, it's not about that. It's about controlling the person in your mirror, becoming a person of character, developing only quality relationships, and exiting toxic ones or redeeming toxic ones,

whatever, so that they're no longer affecting the whole process. Because this whole thing works together. Your spiritual walk, your relational walk, your behavior, the way you take care of your body, the way you treat each other and your family. All of these things enter into whether or not you actually can become financially successful.

[Music]

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Not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Jill in Michigan. I recently got engaged and we're trying to figure out how we should be splitting the wedding expenses. I understand that you always recommend that married couples combine finances, but what do you do in the stage where

moving from a boyfriend to a girlfriend to engage and planning a wedding when most of the cost will come out of our pockets and not from our parents? Yeah,

it's a great question, Jill. Um, I mean, I can tell you what Winston and I did. We just opened up a separate checking account completely and put our wedding money in that. >> The wedding checking account.

Yeah, we called it the wedding checking account and then used debit card, wrote checks and stuff out of that account. So, but from the splitting expenses, I think you got I mean, however much you both have to spend on the wedding, that's going to be the budget and it may be coming more from him, more from you, I don't know. Whatever you guys decide the the total is going to be of what you guys can afford.

percentage- wise of who who comes from who, that doesn't bother me. So, if it's a $20,000 wedding and it's 10 and 10,

that's great. If it's 515, that's great.

I mean, I don't care. But yeah, I would put it in one account and then you guys just use that account as the wedding

account. And then once I ended up just migrating all of our money to that account eventually and closed out our other two uh and that became our, you know, joint checking at that point, but >> post post wedding. >> Post wedding. Yep. >> Yeah. the um so yeah I think the main

issue is you sit down and say okay with my budget and my debts and my savings here's what I can contribute to the wedding and with your budget your debts and your savings what can you contribute and we both come to a number and it doesn't have to be the same number I agree with Rachel uh but it does need to be laid out ahead of time so you say okay I can put in five and I can put in 15 we've got our 20 okay and uh then

you've got and we're both have a clearly aligned goal goal of and here's when I'm going to be able to do that when I sell this car or when I do that and that's how we're going to be able to fund that.

And then that'll help you come up with your wedding budget. And then I'll go a step further beyond the question and tell you um

we had um in classic Ramsay style three uh

wonderful fun parties that were weddings that were honoring to God. And we had a blast at all three of them, all three kids. They were absolute fun celebrations. We like to party. And um that was the positive.

And the other positive was was that all

three of them uh were

in huge compliment to all three Ramsey Gen 2s. Um that they they laid out a

game plan. and they put a number on it and then they broke it down line by line

what we're going to spend on the wedding and they stuck to it by and large. And and so no one had a little uh

four-year-old on the serial aisle meltdown bride bride of Bradzilla fit

and no mother-in-laws had a bridezilla fit uh like some of these things you see on these reality stuff and all that.

This was just like, okay, here's a project and it's going to cost this. The dress is going to be this. the uh the

reception is going to be the big number usually and if you're going to throw a party it is and the and you know here's the videographer and here's what we pay the preacher and here's what the venue costs and you do you're running a project like you're building a house here's what the carpet costs here's what the lights cost and that's the budget and we stick to that then we don't go oh

you know we can do without the lobster flown in from Madagascar or whatever right >> yeah I will say because it's a story you wrote in Smart Money Smart Kids I did go over a little bit with the chairs at the reception. Do you remember that? >> I do remember that. >> And I was like, "Hey, I just need to come." >> You had to have that. You had to have the had to have the gold chair. >> No, no, no, no, no. It was just the Yes.

When everything shook out, there was a there was a small deficit, >> but it was it was not >> No, it was not significant. >> And it really was. >> But in Rachel fashion, I spent every last penny of the three kids. This one here is the one that went over. Yeah.

And so, uh, but it was just it was enough that it made a really good joke.

And so and we make fun of her for the next 25 years. So that's it. But the uh it's good family legend stuff. But anyway, the the point being you lay out a budget and you say this is the number and that means we're going to spend X on dress, Y on reception >> and this and we can't do the open bar or we can or whatever we're doing, right?

And you look at the cost and you can't just say, "Oh, none of this matters because of romance." Yes, it does. You're going to screw up the romance. >> Yeah. >> With the money.

And it's honestly and it's and it's good learning. I mean, I know people depending on when you're getting married, >> you always have to make choices. >> Yes. Yes.

And I remember we had to do stuff like in the actual church, the pews, you know, the the flowers on the side and all of it. We had to nyx those and do berries instead. We were getting married on Christmas because we didn't have our flower budget was over. So, it was like, okay, we got to cut flowers somewhere.

Where where are we going to cut it? You know, so it is it's you are figuring it out, but it's a great test run as a couple. Now, the guy usually doesn't care.

>> There might be some mothers or mothers involved. >> Well, yeah, that too. >> But that >> Thank God not for me. >> Anyway, it's good. It's good. It's good.

You learn You learn some boundaries there, too. >> Yes. >> So, it's But do not enter this. And this

couple here isn't because the way she's asking this, I can tell she's not guilty. Um, but do not enter this like

um I have unlimited ability to spend just because I have a right to. this entitlement thing on weddings is out of control and um you

know and it's partly because we have 16th birthdays now that are out of control and then that extrapolates into a wedding that's out of control and so um and I don't care what you spend. It's the out of control part I don't like.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I I mean friend of mine they spent $125,000 on the wedding the other day and u I don't that didn't bother me a bit. They got billions of dollars and that's not a big deal. Uh so uh but it's the it's the that the this supposed

grown woman and the supposed grown man

that she's marrying cannot be told. No one can tell them no. Like they're little spoiled brats or something. And that drives me bananas. So but if you're

paying for your own, you got to tell yourself no like Jill's doing. So Jill's not guilty of that for sure. But guys, just be be careful with that. It's it can get out of control really really quick. Uh Frank's in Alaska. Hey Frank, what's up? >> Uh, not much. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Great, great. So, I am looking at retiring in about a year and a half or leaving my job at least. My wife's going to keep working. We have a a house mortgage at 300,000. Our house is currently worth probably about 650. I have two vacant lots right next door to me that are completely paid off. And I'm looking at possibly paying uh building a

duplex on one of these lots and living in one side as a way to become mortgage

free within my retirement. I don't want to go into retirement and carry a mortgage. >> So, you'd sell your house? >> Um, well, that's a question. My mortgage

for my house right now is like $1,300 a month. And I know I could rent it out for like $3,000 a month. And I'm thinking about just holding on to the house and using that as a supplement the

income to pay off or to pay off the mortgage on a duplex.

>> I thought you were going to be debtree out. All right. >> How'd you How'd you not end up debtree? I thought you told me you were doing this to be debtree.

>> Well, yeah. I'm looking to be mortgage free. >> You're not mortgage free. You got a mortgage on the house >> in the duplex. Yeah. I >> No, he's clearing the How are you clearing the duplex?

Well, clearing the duplex. Well, I have $200,000 to pay down on the duplex in

cash and then um eventually selling the

house to use that to pay down on the on the duplex.

>> Okay. So, no, I would not do your plan.

Uh if you want to do something to become debtree, do it, but don't half do it and eventually do it. You need to pull the trigger on the whole thing at once when you get ready to do it. No, I would not do this. Um, I don't buy res I don't buy

rental properties, investment properties with debt, period. It adds to risk. It

doesn't reduce risk. So, if you want to sell the vacant, one of the vacant lots and sell your home and take the equity from your home in $200,000 and build a duplex and move in half of that debtree, we can talk about that one.

>> The downside then is that your tenant lives next door to you.

The upside is your tenant lives next door to you. >> Yeah. Just knock knock knock.

>> Hello. Yeah. >> Hi. This is leaking.

>> Hello. The B light bulbs out.

>> Happy retirement. >> Something's dripping over here. Yeah.

Doesn't sound fun to me, but some people can do it.

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Alexander is in California. Hey, Alexander. How are you?

>> Good. And you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm in a predicament right now and I need your advice. >> Okay. >> Uh, my mother passed away early March and she has a life insurance policy for about $300,000 and it's split between me and my brother. My mom rid out the policy when

we were minors in case she died of her disease that she passed away of not that long ago. And the money is being held by my aunt and my grandma.

>> I'm sorry. No, wait a minute. Stop. That that's not possible. Okay. Your mother bought a life insurance policy and it had a beneficiary.

>> Oh, I'm not sure how that stuff works, but >> Well, I'm telling you that's how it works. Okay. And the beneficiary is who the check should have been written to.

Now, did she make your grandmother the beneficiary or did she make you the beneficiary?

>> Uh, it's the paperwork states the money supposed to go to me and my brother.

>> What paperwork?

>> Uh, my stepfather gave me the paperwork of what the insurance policy was.

>> Okay. Are you are How old are you?

>> Uh, I just turned 18 uh February 27th.

>> When did your mother pass away?

>> Uh, March 2nd.

after you turned 18.

>> Yeah. Uh I believe it was two days after I turned 18 when my mother pass.

>> I'm so sorry.

>> It's all right. >> And your your brother is how old?

>> Uh my brother just turned 24 a few days ago. >> Okay. So if you were named the beneficiaries, the check should not have been sent by the life insurance company to anyone but you. I'm confused how it got sent to your grandmother.

I think it's because my stepdad said

that uh I think it was written to my um

aunt and my grandma, but it it states on the paper that the money is supposed to be split between the children, which is me and my >> No, honey, that's not how life insurance policy works. There's no paper that does that on life insurance. Your step you haven't seen the paperwork, have you?

>> Uh I have the paperwork, >> but you've not looked at it and understood it. Okay. All right. So, I

don't know what has happened based on the story you're telling me because you're getting told by uh family legend

that paperwork says something, but I don't think it says what you think it says. And here's why. Okay, a life

insurance policy has a beneficiary on it. The beneficiary gets sent the check.

Period. If the life insurance company sends the check to someone else, they're going to lose all the money because the person that is the beneficiary is going to sue the life insurance company for all the money. And the life insurance companies just simply don't do that.

They will not write the check to anyone that's not the beneficiary.

Okay. So, I think I'm guessing because

you don't know and I can't tell, but I'm guessing that this policy said that the

life insurance was to go to your grandmother and a will or a verbal

agreement with your mother said it was supposed to go to you once it went to your grandmother thinking that you were going to be a minor at the time.

>> Yeah, I think that's the way my stepdad explained it. >> Yeah, but I think the reason their grandmother has the money is she was actually the beneficiary.

Okay. And unless you can produce a piece of paper like a will or something else in writing, not family legend, but in

actual writing that your grandmother owes you that money because that was your mother's written will

and desire. Um, >> does she have a will, Alexander? Do you know? >> Uh, I have no idea to be honest.

>> Yeah. So, when you talk to your grandmother about this, what does she say?

Well, I talked to my aunt about it because uh it it was written off to both of them. So, they they both got their own checks which split the money.

>> And what did they say?

>> Um well, my aunt told me about it and my stepdad told me about it around the same time. And every time I I bring it up to

my aunt, like the story always changed.

like the amount of money changes or like

the way she explains that the money will be spent changes. I mean, I'm not so

close.

That was maybe >> Hey, you're breaking up, Alexander. >> We can't We can't hear you. You're breaking up, huh? Are you Are you back?

>> Wherever you walked, walk back.

>> Oh. Uh, >> there you go. Yeah, you're there. You're there. >> Thank you. Thank you. All right. >> My bad. Every time um I do talk to my aunt, it's like something changes about it or like she has like a new rule of what the money will be spent on or something like that

>> for you or for herself?

>> Uh for me and my brother.

>> So she says what? You have to spend it on college or you have to spend it for a down payment or like what what does she say? Well, she'll bring up college or she'll bring up like me moving out to the Bay Area with her and going to college out there and I pay her rent.

But if I ever ask her for money for like something maybe I seek interest in or like to put towards my future, she's always iffy about it and saying that it's not what my mother would have wanted.

>> Okay. You do not have a legal problem.

You have a relationship problem.

This cannot be solved by a court of law because you don't have any standing >> unless there's a will somewhere and >> if there's not a will and you don't get your hands on a will that dictates but a will very seldom dictates what happens to life insurance policies.

>> It only dictates what happens to an estate. So you can have a will and it

won't it does not supersede what the life insurance policy said. So, the life insurance policy um I I I

um I I'm afraid that you are going to

have to develop a relationship with your aunt that is not adversarial and that

she needs to become convinced this is for your own good. She thinks she's supposed to manage this money, that your mom wanted her sister to take care of you. That's what she thinks. and she's

got some weird definitions of what take care of you means and they're different than your definition. Um, but you're 18

and you've just lost your mom and that's

part of the deal. So, um, but I I I'm

not I'm not a lawyer, Alexander. You could go spend some money with a lawyer if you want. I think you're wasting it.

Uh, because I don't think you're I think you're going to >> from a legal >> persuade your aunt to use the money that

is in some way that is good for you.

>> How much is it? How much does your aunt have and how much does your grandmother have? >> 300,000 150 each. Is that right?

>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. >> Okay. And so, uh, and your grandmother has some as well.

>> Uh, yeah. My grandmother has her check put in a separate bank account from hers. >> And what does she tell you? You haven't talked to her?

>> Uh, no. I haven't talked to her yet about it. It's mainly my aunt trying to be in control of it all. That's why.

>> Okay. Well, I haven't heard anything that your aunt was using it for herself. I've heard that you are not in agreement as to what's good for you. She wants to use it for one thing that's good for you. You want to use it for a different thing that's good for you. And you want control of it. And I don't think you're going to get control of it. Your mother didn't leave you in control of it. She left your aunt in control of it. That's what it sounds like.

>> And I don't think I don't think there's any piece of paper anywhere floating around that's going to give you control.

Not in the story you told me. I'll be shocked if you find it. If you find it, then I would take that piece of paper, whatever it is, the will or anything else you can find, and sit down with your aunt in person and say, "This piece of paper says that I need this money.

And if you don't write me a check, I'm going to have an attorney ask you to write me a check." And then you would seek legal counsel. But I don't think you're going to find that piece of paper, Alexander. I don't think it exists. I think this was a handshake between your mother and her sister

>> and her mom >> and and her mom to take care of her boys.

And the boys just don't agree with what take care of is defined as.

>> That's what it sounds like. You hearing me? >> Mhm. >> So if I were you and your brother, a I would look for this paperwork and not be adversarial about it until you find the paperwork. And if you don't find the paperwork, or if you do, buy an airline ticket or get in a car and drive and sit

down in person with your aunt and start trying to come to some alignment on what she thinks is good for you and what you think is good for you. Um, because I don't think the story is changing as much as you think it's changing. I think that you've gone through a lot of tragedy and hurt and heartache and you

want to do what you want to do and she's telling you no.

That's what it sounds like.

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Our scripture of the day, 2 Timothy 2:15. and do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Theodel Roosevelt said, "Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work

worth doing." Amen. Hey, the Ramsay Gold

Planner is out and for sale. Set you up

for 2026. It's jam-packed with monthly

content from Jade Rachel and Dr. Dr.

John Deloney to help you start each month on track with your money, your faith, and your relationships, and then follow through on your goals. We sell out every year. Don't wait. You can get yours for $49.97 at ramseyolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes.

Jake is in Boisee, Idaho. Hi, Jake. How are you?

>> Oh, staying out of trouble, so can't complain too much. Good. Um, thanks for having me on. >> My pleasure. How can we help? Um, so issue or a problem that came up is we had a murder happen right next door at our home. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. Um, my wife is a stay-at-home mom

with two under two at home, like two little ladies. Um, and so obviously like

she was at home and everything went down and all that fun stuff with all the cops showing up. But so she doesn't feel safe there anymore. It wasn't like a gang violence thing. It was just a >> random guy.

Um, yes. I would say, oh, I guess you could call it R. It's like a crazy guy decided to go after some family members.

I'll put it that way. So, >> I mean, I'm sorry. Say that again.

>> Yeah. >> A crazy guy. >> A crazy guy just decided to try and uh

just succeeded in killing one of his one of his daughters and then tried to kill another one one of his other kids. And that >> So, the Wait a minute. The murder was domestic violence gone crazy. He knew the people he was killing and they had nothing to do with your family.

Correct. >> So, this is not a crime spree in the neighborhood. This is crazy people lived next door.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, why would your wife be afraid?

>> Um, well, she was at home through >> No. No. But do you have crazy people in your family that are going to come attack you?

>> Cuz that's what happened. >> Not that I know of. >> Well, that's what happened. >> Not that I know of.

>> Could be. But >> I feel the same way, Jake. I feel the same way.

could be sitting next to one of them.

>> What? >> Oh, brother. No, seriously. So, I mean, I would be afraid. I would be lo It'd be logical to be afraid if this was a random act of crime in the neighborhood, but this was associated with the family and the people in the a family member did this to another family member. Am I correct?

>> Yes, that's correct. >> So, there's no there was no danger presented to your house except for stray bullets.

>> Yep. Exactly. >> Okay. So there's now that he's gone, >> there's no there's no danger other than all the ickiness of this.

>> Yes. Exactly. That's my very logical

brain. That's not very emotional brain.

I'll put it that way. Works. >> Well, no, that's just that's it is emotional and it's logical, but emotions need to they need to be run by logic and we need to accept both. They're both are it's valid to say a traumatic thing happened next door.

It was traumatic to me and my wife and my little girls that cop cars were everywhere and people died over there. >> But that that's traumatic >> and and dealing with that trauma is a valid thing >> and that's a sweet thing for you to do and you and your wife to work on together.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And and they're they're very separate things. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. I'm back with you now.

I had to catch up because I didn't know the story enough. All right. I'm sorry y'all been through this. How old are your b How old are your babies?

>> Under two. >> Um, one just turned two yesterday actually or today and then another one the other one is 5 months old. >> Oh, so the five-month-old has no idea and the 2-year-old might have seen a cop car. So really it's your wife is was traumatized by it.

>> Yes, that is 100% correct.

>> Because I don't think the 2-year-old grasps probably what's going on.

>> Oh, yeah. I The kids are just fine. They have fun things. And you're and what she's saying, J. >> So, because of all this, she's saying she wants to move.

>> Yes, exactly. She just doesn't feel safe going on walks in the neighborhood anymore. Uh doesn't want the little ones playing out in the backyard as much and just so she is feeling like she needs to move and I want to be able to provide that for her. Um >> let me stop you. Dr. John Deloney would say that she's not going to feel safe anywhere.

>> Mhm. >> Because the lack of safety is not due to the actual presence of crime. It's due to the trauma and the trauma is inside of her and it's going to go wherever you move.

>> Okay. Um you this happened like a couple

weeks ago. I've been talking to my wife quite a bit. She still feels how she feels. Do you guys have any advice on navigating? >> Yeah, I think you guys need to see a therapist. She's been through hell.

>> You need to have somebody help her with her trauma.

>> Yeah. I mean I I'm not faulting that she has these feelings there. I I would feel the same way. >> Yeah.

It's creep. Oh, it's weird. Super weird. Yeah, >> it's super weird.

But it's not It's also the the cause. >> No, there was Yeah, if there was a breakin of, you know, >> if there was a If there were people there were people breaking in Rachel's neighborhood, there was guys going in and knocking doors in and stuff in her neighborhood and they caught them. Uh, so everybody feels safer now in her neighborhood. Okay.

If if the if the next door neighbor's 16-year-old stole his mother's diamond brooch and sold it to buy drugs, that doesn't make you scared unless he's going to come in your house to steal your diamond brooch, right? And so there's no there's no logical reason to be afraid when you're walking except that you've been traumatized and that means if you move across town, you're going to be afraid when you're walking still. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, it makes. So, I don't care if you move, but I don't want you to think moving is actually going to fix it. >> It's going to solve her fear.

>> It's not going to solve it.

>> Okay? >> So, I I would I would challenge you. I think I'm okay with you moving. I might move. >> Yeah. >> But I'm not going to move because I don't feel safe.

>> Okay. >> Because that tells me that I haven't dealt with my trauma yet. >> So, I would sit down with a therapist. I really would cuz I think your wife's really been traumatized. And I don't >> It's fair. Well, there was a murder in the neighborhood next to us and it was terrible, but it was a familyoriented thing. Um, >> we would be traumatized. >> So, yeah, it's you're so scary, but also

my kids will still ride their bikes in that neighborhood because it wasn't a it wasn't to your point. >> It's not they're not it's not a drive by shooting. >> Dangerous people around you, right? >> It's not it's not what's going on.

So, but but if but if but your wife has now internalized it is what I'm saying. And and that's okay. I understand. And it's it's a wound.

Trauma is a w it's a valid thing to for her to be scared and to have gone through this. But to extrapolate that to if I live on the other side of town, I won't be afraid when this had nothing to do with the house, >> then that's that that means you got something else to work on.

>> Six months of that and then if it's for some reason it's still not good, then maybe try the move. I don't know. >> I might move anyway. Just ickiness. I can move off of the memory. the memory is >> ickiness is weird because it'll always be the murder house >> as long as you live there. I mean, it's weird like um so yeah, I bought a house

one time when I was buying and selling real estate that a guy had been killed in >> and it was like it had a stigma the neighborhood >> but the people that bought it had no idea and it wasn't I mean I didn't have any idea when I bought it. >> Sure. >> I didn't care. I was buying a foreclosure. Right. Right. >> And so uh but it was but it's still there's an ickiness. I mean life a life was ended there. It's weird. Mhm.

>> It's just strange. So, you're you're the ickiness is a reason to move, but not if you if you're actually using the I don't feel safe, then that tells me she needs some other stuff. She needs some other help with this. And that's okay. That's not it doesn't mean she's a bad person.

It doesn't mean she's um you know, uh it

just means she went through some trauma.

And but don't take that with you to the other side of town and then go, "Well, I can never go outside the rest of my life and walk." because one time 42 years ago

there was a murder next door and I never dealt with my trauma. >> That that's how stuff develops and so you you don't want to live there and I'm channeling my inner Dr. John Del.

>> I was going to say you said internalize.

You were using some >> using some John Deloney words. >> Yeah, I know. I was like, man, trauma goes with you. >> Well, I've been hanging out with him. I've been learning from him. He's smart dude. >> It's good. >> So, there we go. >> It's real, though. So real.

>> That's so sad. I'm sorry y'all been through that, Jay. >> I know. And I'm just glad glad everybody's okay. >> And what you don't want to do is make a stupid financial decision based on the heightened emotion either. So just >> let some stuff settle. Yes. Go do some work and then if you guys need to make a wise decision to move, do that.

>> And ickiness is an okay decision. But that has nothing wrong with that. That puts uh this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat. Heat.

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## 27. Debt Is A Solvable Math Problem | November 13, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw. and it's open phones at88255225.

John is going to kick us off in Indianapolis. [music] What's going on, John?

>> Hey, how you doing? My name is John. Um,

>> we got that part. >> I want I'm sorry. Um, I want to know, should I file bankruptcy? And if not,

how do I get out of debt?

>> Wow. John, tell us tell us what's got you feeling like bankruptcy is your only option. Tell me tell tell us your debt.

tell us your income.

>> So, um the debt that we're that me and my wife is in is $30,000. My income is

close to $3500 a month. My wife's income is close to $2,000 a month.

>> She just now started back working.

>> Okay, >> good. So, you're bringing in 5,500 a month. That's your take-home pay.

>> Yes. >> Okay, >> good. So, is it is it possible if you said she's just started back working, is it because she just had a baby?

>> Yes, of course. >> Okay. So, I'm feeling like you might have been in a really, really tight season because she wasn't working and bringing in the money and now she's back to working. So, has it has there been a little bit more breathing room since she's been back working?

>> Yes, it has. It really has.

>> Okay, that's good. So, the good news is, you know, I was expecting you to say we have, you know, $290,000 of debt or 490,

you know, but the 30,000 when I hear that, I go, "Oh, we can do that." George, >> this is a solvable math problem. Yeah.

What kind of debt is the 30? Break it down for us. >> All right. So, most of it is personal loans. Um being um being brought up or

been gotten the time that she wasn't working. >> Um and also because I have two other children on child I'm on child support.

>> Okay. >> So, the time when I have them um it it

was tough. I didn't want my my kid that

I have with my wife looking nice and you know being able to do nice things and with them not being able to.

>> Of course. But there's more u there's more personal loans. My child support went up within a year. So um I'm paying the 746 a month. Um

I was I took out another loan u to pay a

lawyer so I would be able to get the visitation rights.

>> How much did that cost?

>> $4,500. >> Okay. So, $4,500 on visitation.

>> Is all the 30,000 personal loans and credit cards? >> Yes. Yes. >> No. No cars, no student loans.

>> One vehicle, $18,000.

>> Well, that's a big part of it. That's half. >> Is that on top of the 30 or is that part of it? >> Part of it. >> Okay. So, 30 in total. What's the car worth?

>> The car is worth about 10,000.

>> So, you're 8,000 underwater on it.

>> Yes. Is that when when was the last time you checked that? Was that private sale?

Was that what the dealer will give you?

Did you only go to one dealer? Tell us about your due diligence on that.

>> So, I checked that last night when um when I'm I was looking at at Credit

Karma. >> Okay. So, what I want you to do, your homework is let's go on Kelly Blue Book and let's see what it would do uh if it was a private sale because chances are you're going to get more for it than that u for private sale. And I would be

interested in knowing a little bit more about that to to make the next decision.

Um, what I want to know from you, John, is you guys have a fine income, 5,500.

Uh, yeah. 746 goes to child support.

That's fine. How much are you paying for rent or or mortgage if you if you own your home? >> Um, so my mortgage is $1175.

>> Okay, that's not bad. Um, is there another big expense that we should know about that's eating your lunch?

Uh, no. That's that that's that's mainly it. Uh, you know, besides utilities and

um and yeah, gas in my truck.

>> What's the total of all of your debt payments? Just make minimum payments.

What does that add up to for the month?

>> For the car, the personal loan.

>> Um, so, and that's the thing. I haven't even been able to make a payment yet.

Or, you know, I have, I just haven't done it. So, maybe.

>> Do you know what I think, John? I think that you would really benefit from a budget, a digital budget that you can put your income in at the top, the 5500.

And then in the budget, you will list out everything that you spend money on.

And the the the every dollar, which is what I'm going to give you, the best budget out there, it's going to keep a running tabulation of how much money you can spend. So, you'll put in I I make 5500, me and my wife combined, and then you'll list everything out. Okay, here's what we spend on groceries. Here's what we spend on rent. here's what we spend on uh gas, utilities, everything for the

month. And then after all of those things that are necessity for you to spend money on, then at the end, you're going to see, okay, how much is left?

Now, with what's left, you've got a couple of choices, John. You can say, okay, with the two with the $2,300 that's left, we can either squander that on Door Dash and takeout and Target and

Amazon Prime, or we can take that extra money and we can use it to start knocking down this 30,000. But what happens is if you don't give that that margin, that extra money an assignment, it just poof. It just goes away. Right, George? >> Exactly. So, if you can learn to live off, you know, let's say $4,000 out of the 5,500. If I said, "Hey, come hell or high water, you guys got to figure this out." Could you make that work?

>> Yes. Yes, we can. >> Cuz guess what? That means you got 1,500 left over, which means you're debtree in less than two years.

bankruptcy at this point, it feels like my back is against the wall and this is a great shortcut get out of jail free card. But the truth is bankruptcy is going to number one implode your financial world for the next 7 to 10 years on your record which is going to hurt your ability to do pretty much anything. And then on top of that, we didn't change the behavior that got John into this mess. >> And so the best way to get out of this is to avoid bankruptcy and just do the debt snowball method.

And this is real clear. Just pay off the smallest balance first and ignore the interest rate. So, what's your smallest balance debt right now? >> $400.

>> Perfect.

If you paid that off before you did anything else, you could knock out 400 bucks, right? >> Yes, I can. >> So, then you free up the payment that you were making on that $400, right?

>> Mhm. >> So, we roll that into the next debt. So, what's the next smallest balance?

>> The next smallest balance I think is 748. >> Mhm. You could probably knock that one out too with the next paycheck. >> Yep. In one month. >> So, one month, you've already cleared two debts. Do you see the progress and momentum of the debt snowball gives you?

>> Yes. Yes, I do. >> So, that's the math part of it, which works every single time if you do it.

But I'm going to tell you the emotional side. what's going to happen to you later this month when that check comes and you've paid the things like the rent and the utilities. You've gone and gotten groceries. You've put gas in the car.

You're going to see that money sitting there and you're going to see Olive Garden and you're going to want to go out to Olive Garden and there's going to be a movie that came out and you're going to want to go see the movie >> and the kids want to go and you've got them and you want to impress them. You want to show them your love. >> The boys want to have drinks. The boys want to go have drinks.

That's what's going to happen. And then you're going to go to yourself. You're going to say, "Well, I work hard for this money. Shouldn't I get to spend it the way I want to spend it?

Can't I start this next week?

Well, my wife, Right. And it's going to all the excuses and all the emotions are going to start setting in. Am I wrong?

>> No. You're definitely right.

>> Right. So, now that we've shed light on it, now that we've told you this is coming, you'll be your your awareness will be heightened and you'll say, "Man, it's happening. That thing that George and Jay told me about is happening. I have a choice to make. I am at a crossroads." critical, John, because the time is going to pass anyway and you can look up in two years and like George said, you can be completely debtree or

you can let your emotions control you and you can look up 2 years and you can be calling us back in the exact same situation. You're going to knock this out real fast, John. My guess 18 months.

If you and your wife get on that budget and hang on the line, Christian's going to pick up. We're going to gift you every dollar to make it super easy.

Download the app, get on the same page, list income and expenses, and then make a plan to create as much margin as possible to get out of debt as quickly as possible.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Carly [music] is in South Carolina up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, Carly.

>> Thank you for having me. How are y'all doing? >> Doing great. >> Good. >> How can we help? Um, so my so my question is how can I pay off my credit

card debt so that I can create a savings, but after I get paid and I pay

all of my bills, I literally have nothing left over.

>> Well, that's a that's a math problem.

That's an income problem, Carly. Um, which I I'm going to be honest with you because I we've been doing this show for a long time. I'd rather you have an income problem where you can just go out and work more, create some margin, and now we solve the problem versus you having to cut everything out of your budget because you've already done that. That's the good news. You've already cut everything down, haven't you?

>> Yes. >> Mhm. >> So, what do you make and what are you spending?

>> Okay. So, I'm a teacher. Um, and I only

bring home $3,800 a month.

>> All right. What's your rent?

My mortgage is $2,100 a month. I have a

550 car payment and daycare is about

$700 a month. And I do want to say I am

a single mom of five. So I'm doing this on my own. So it's it's really hard to save when you when I have five kids. And then so I've paid everything like my my

utility, cell phone bill, car insurance.

I have nothing left over. I've been having to use >> and there's no child support coming in.

No, he is not involved at all.

>> I mean, legally, I feel like he should be.

>> I agree. Um, I don't know where he is.

Um, and when we were together, we known each other since high school. And when we were together, he was on again, off again with Jobs. I've always been the sole provider. >> So, even if a judge was going to make him pay, nobody can find him to make him pay. Is that what you're telling me?

>> Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. So here I'm going to point out two major problems and I'm just warning you right now. This is going to be a lot. Uh number one thing is with your $3800 your rent is more than 50% of your take-home and it is extremely it's

almost impossible Kari to make that happen especially when you have a high another high bill something like uh insurance or a high car payment. So that

right there must change. The second thing is, >> well, I'm sorry. I just bought this home in January. >> I understand. That's why I said this is going to be very, very tough because no one home is security, right?

Home equals security. No one wants to be told that their home is too expensive.

No one wants to be told that they might possibly have to sell, right? That's the worst thing I could have said to you emotionally. >> I understand that, but I'm just right now I'm telling you the math. Math doesn't have emotions. That's the math.

50% over 50% almost impossible unless

you see a world where your income is going to double because that's the next problem is your income is quite it's on

the low side for a single mom with five kids and I'm not um I'm just telling you

the facts. So, we've got to solve for these very tough problems. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. >> When did you get the car?

Well, my car I've had since 2019, but

it's and I had to refinance um one time.

So, it's going to actually be paid off in June.

>> Okay. >> Just based on your current payment. >> Yeah. What do you owe?

>> Um a little bit over 4,000.

>> Okay. So, it's almost done. All right.

So, just based off you making the payments, you should be done in June, July. I like that. Um but it doesn't that's going to give you some breathing room. But at this point, the only way you're making it to June, July is if you're putting it on credit cards, which is what you said. So, how can we bring in some more money? Tell us, is there any margin of time? Is there anything you could do that is work from home?

That is something you can do on the internet when the kids are asleep. Is there any margin of time there? >> School tutoring, something.

>> I have looked into all that and with it just being me, we have no family here.

Um, I have to pick up my kids at a certain time and I'm telling you, by the time I get home after dealing with high schoolers all day, I'm exhausted and then I have to come home and be mom.

>> And I have looked online to do like online tutoring and things like that, but like by the time I get my own kids situated, like it's too late to do anything else. >> Where's your family?

>> Like your extended family? >> Three states away. >> Okay. What caused you to come to South Carolina?

Um cuz the cost of living was cheaper.

>> Okay. And your family where where you said three states away. Where are they?

>> Um Virginia.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it. Um I want to know

about here's what I'm talking about.

You're in a place it sounds like you're a little isolated where there's not folks you can reach out to that might be able to help you uh be able to free up a little margin to be able to work more.

That's one thought that I'm having. Other thought is, like I said, this house is too expensive. Um, is there a

place where we can move and teach and maybe make more as a teacher and be able to have a lesser rent? These are the the problems that we have to solve because I think you and I can both agree. We can't keep going as it is. Right.

>> Right. >> How much do you have to change?

>> I'm sorry. What' you say? >> What What's your total debt right now?

um the $7,000 on a credit card with an interest rate of 23%.

>> Plus the 4,000 on the car.

>> Yes. >> So we're at 11,000 total.

>> Yes. >> Okay. That's all the debt.

>> Okay. Well, the good news is as far as debt goes, that's one of the lower numbers we've heard on the show. But the problem right now is you're underwater every month and there's no hope that the income's going to go up or the expenses are going to go down, at least until the car is paid off.

So, are have you stopped going into debt? Are you able to float the bills right now and just get by or are you going swiping that credit card every month?

>> I'm able to pay my bills with my income.

What I'm putting on the card is groceries, gas, and like toiletries, household items, stuff like that.

>> Yeah. You're not going out doing the most, having fun on credit cards. You're just surviving.

>> Correct. >> And that that that's the part. Yeah. So, yeah. when June, July comes and you're able to uh get the 550 back, that is

going to help, right? Cuz how much every single month are you putting on credit cards? Do you know the exact number?

>> Oh my gosh. Um groceries alone is like

at least about $800 a month.

>> And then if I'm having to get gas cuz I

drive a SUV, that could be like >> three 320 a month. And then like

toiletries and things like that, maybe another two.

>> Yeah. So 1,300 a month burn rate, it's

too much cuz if you keep doing that until June, July, you're going to look up and instead of having Yeah.

>> So I'm saying that I I I don't want to

scare you. I'm not trying to I'm trying to give you hope to see, hey, if we can shake this loose, you can get to a better situation. But it can't stay like this. We got to look at housing that's

less expensive. We've got to look start looking tonight. My homework for you tonight is let's look at teacher salary in other states. Let's look at the ways to increase your teacher salary.

Let's look at those sorts of things um and start getting some ideas of how you can make a little bit more money there on the side. Then I want you to look at okay where where are some people? Where is my family? Let me look at uh cost of rent over there.

Let me see uh what it would take to get a three-bedroom apartment or what would it look like to have a two-bedroom apartment for a season and have uh three kids in the room and two kids in the living room on a pullout couch.

>> Fair enough. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And I'm saying it because I love you. No part of this no part of what it's going to take in this next season is going to be fun. What is going to be fun is when you finally get out of debt, when you can finally sleep at night cuz the bills are paid, the groceries are bought, the gas is bought, and none of it was on a credit card. That's going to feel it's going to feel so good. It will make all the sacrifices worth it.

>> Right. >> What's the age range of the kids?

>> They are 17, 11, 9, 5, and two.

>> Okay. What's the 17-year-old doing?

>> Um, she's in school. She's a junior in high school. >> Is she working part-time?

>> She's actually about to start next week.

She got a job um at Burger King, actually. >> Okay, good. This might be a hard conversation as you know, she enters adulthood. And you know, let her know what's going on cuz if she can help out during this time, even covering her own stuff, and say, "Hey, I got to cover the young kids.

If you can cover your own bills, that's going to really help mom out as she tries to climb out of this hole and get out of debt." Uh that's going to be a tough conversation. But as the kids get older, hopefully they're out of daycare. This is a a season. It's going to be longer than you want it to be, but it's a season.

And if you can get rid of that car payment and daycare is off the books and maybe we move to renting longterm or we get the income up, then we can breathe. So, we got a lot of variables to solve here.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Yeah. [music] Welcome back to the Ramsay

Show. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw. If you're enjoying the show or any other Ramsey show, hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, wherever you're watching or listening. It means the world to us and it helps spread the word and get this into more ears and uh hopefully help change some people's lives. Tim is in Detroit up next. What's going on, Tim?

>> Hey guys, thanks for having me on.

>> Absolutely. What's your question?

>> So, I I've recently run into u I guess a

tough conversation with my wife. She got together with some friends and kind of talking about our financial situation. I pretty much run the show. I don't re her

in too much or anything, but I've been accused now of being kind of financially manipulative or controlling. And I'm hoping for maybe a diagnosis from you guys or some advice on how to how to navigate this.

>> Well, I I love that you're bringing this

up and saying I I want help. I think

that alone lets me know that there's a lot of hope here. Um if what's being said is true. I will say based on the first words that you said like you know I kind of run the show that does make me think okay one person is carrying way more of this load than they should. Now, I will say it's one thing if you have

said, "Honey, I got this. I'll do it.

Matter of fact, I don't really need your involvement." And it's been like that.

And it's another story if she's kind of been like, "Fine with you doing it.

She's been fine with you handling it.

She's not shown an interest in it." That it takes two to tango on that part.

Right. So, tell me how it's been and and

be honest. Has it been more of the latter or more of the first scenario?

Uh, you know, we're we're a very good team. Um, finance in general tends to

make her a little bit nervous. So, this kind of happened out of necessity. We both came into our marriage with basically nothing. A little bit of debt on both sides, worked our way out of it.

We're basically on baby step six. Um,

and the system that's kind of evolved

is, uh, she has one debit card, access to

one account, and just kind of does her daily spending on that. I'm paying all the bills and making sure money goes into all the IAS, paying the mortgage.

>> Does she have the passwords to all the other stuff?

>> She has passwords to maybe about half of

it. She doesn't have passwords to like the retirement stuff only because she

has really no input. I give her kind of a you know a checkin maybe every six months or so. >> But if she asked for it if she asked for it and said, "Tim, can you send me the passwords to everything?" Would you have a problem with giving them to her?

>> No, absolutely not. Okay. >> And in the past, she she ran her own IRA and stuff. And I would, you know, have to remind her to kind of, hey, go in, reinvest your dividends and stuff like that. And >> um >> so where do you think this is coming from with her friends? >> Comfortable handing off, but now, you know, it's been kind of called into question. >> Has she come to you with this before she spilled the tea with her her friends?

>> No. This all this all kind of happened organically the system that we have and now that she's revealed it to her friend group they've said hey that it's messed up. >> They so they were like hey red flags and then your wife came to you and said hey I was talking to my friends and they're seeing some red flags with the way you're managing our money.

>> Yeah they are saying hey she should have Yeah. She should have more input more say >> and she should >> I would like to >> Yeah. I would like to say too I I don't restrict her spending in any way. She has the same >> sort of freedoms that I do. Similar spending patterns.

>> I don't think this is an indictment on you. >> She's packages.

>> Yeah. >> I don't think it's I don't I don't think this is an indictment on you based on what you're saying. I think like you said, this kind of has happened organically. I think out of necess necessity, like you said, you kind of took the wheel on things and it just ended up this way.

I think her friends may have heard her say something without full context and maybe they were like, "Oh, girl, you got to change this, right? Whatever." What I what I'm hearing is what happens, I think, in a lot of relationships where one spouse money is not really their bag. They don't really care a whole lot about it, so they're fine with letting the other spouse do it. The problem with that is what we're seeing now, which is something happens and there feels like a bit of a loss of control.

suddenly they're feeling like maybe I don't know what's going on and I should know what's going on. The truth is it's on both of you guys.

I really think it's probably pretty simple to get it back on track. I think it's you telling her what you just told me which is you know what honey this has happened and it's just as much on me. I I I should have pulled you in more and I should have made sure that and let you know that it's really important for me for you to be an equal part in this. And for that part, I'm sorry.

Going forward, I do I think both of us should have a handle on what's going on. I am happy to show all the passwords.

log into everything. I want full transparency, but I also need from you going forward to demonstrate interest in this so that

it can be both of us on this. What do you think she'd say to that?

>> It's I I I think she'd probably like to hear that. You know, like I said, the

finances have caused her a lot of anxiety in the past and that's how we ended up here. I think even >> Wait, go back. Why? Why anxiety?

>> Um, when when we got together and when we got married, I I had a tiny bit of debt, but, you know, a couple of bucks. She was in more debt than I was, and I, you know, kind of caused a little bit of shame and we dug her out of that and everything. And I think maybe to date, she still kind of holds some of that.

And, um, >> okay. But we've done really well and it's been, you know, she she works, I work, and um uh it's all it's all been

okay. But I'm not sure really what she

would do with that information or if she

would even go in and check it. I mean,

yeah, I would never deny her any of those things. >> So, if I were you, I mean, we're talking numbers. We started talking numbers, but it does sound like it's an emotional conversation to me. And I'd start there.

>> That's where I would start with the conversation. I'd say, "Hey, I've really been thinking about what you said and numbers, account information aside, rest assured, we can share all that. I just want to understand how how the how long have you guys been married? I want to, you know, how how has the last 15 years made you feel?

I'm thinking about when we came in this relationship with debt, it felt like you were carrying some shame. I I I want to know about that.

>> Yeah, I I appreciate that. I can I can do that, >> you know, because she might be thinking if she's still carrying that shame. I mean, the thing you got to understand with financial shame is she it's not just something I did. It's an identity that I now am.

I'm the one who was bad with money. I'm the one who slowed us down. I'm the one who wrecked everything, right? >> I don't deserve a vote in this marriage when it comes to money.

>> Yes. >> And that turns into when you just heard Gabin with the gals, oh my gosh, he's so controlling. He doesn't let you have a say and now she's going to have an existential crisis. And so I think this is this is between you two.

I don't like that it's even gotten this far where it's turned into like a a gossip mill and her friends are involved. Uh this is just a marriage issue where we go, "Hey, we have not been on the same page communicating. We've done well in spite of all of that. we're doing good financially and I need to bring you into it and I need you to care so that this doesn't turn into you saying, "Well, I never I never knew.

You never told me." And so, again, to Jade's point, she needs to be interested and curious and you need to be forthcoming. And then we need to be aligned. If we played the newlywed game and I said, "Hey, what's y'all's net worth? What's your next financial goal?

How much are you investing?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's probably the difference because she I don't think could really answer any of those questions, >> you know, >> and right, it's probably because like it feels overwhelming. She feels shame.

She's not the type of person who understands all of this stuff. And so what you can do really well is put the cookies on the bottom shelf and just help her understand what you're doing in a non-patronizing way and say, "We're a team. We're building this thing together. And I want to make sure you know where we're going so that you're not upset when we get there."

>> Understood. Yeah, >> I think you guys will get on the same page. I I love that this happened for you. I think this is going to be a catalyst for a much more open, a much

more trusting, much more transparent relationship, not just with money, but the two of you as people. Um, you want to know what? I'm going to send you my book, What No One Tells You About Money.

It's not going to come until later cuz it's still on pre-order, but we're going to write your name down. We're going to send it to you and your wife so you can read it because the emotional part of money is the part that nobody talks about. And a lot of times it holds people back like we've seen uh Tim with you and your wife. But no longer. I'm going to help you fix it.

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Well, Jade, a lot of the calls so far this hour are less about the math and

the money and more about the emotions behind it. >> Absolutely. >> I'm scared because I can't make ends meet and I'm continually going to debt.

I have shame because of my past financial mistakes and now I don't trust myself to even be involved when it comes to money in my marriage. And I love what you talk about in your new book, What No One Tells You About Money. because you're finally telling us the emotional fight is real and you got to be aware of it. >> That's right. I mean, we've all been guilty of it. We're looking for We know there's a problem and we're looking for the fix and there is a solve, right?

There's a proven plan. We know the baby steps work if you work it, but we forget to talk about the person in the mirror who has the ability to steer the whole thing off course, right? And it's because our emotions. I mean, just in the last 45 minutes, George, we had to tell somebody to sell their house. We've had to tell people to have difficult relationship with uh conversations with their spouse. That is not easy. That is

that has nothing to do with dollars and cents. That has to do with how are you feeling? That has to do with giving up a piece of you that you've worked so hard for. That has to do with dealing with past mistakes. That is all emotional.

Has nothing to do with the debt snowball. You see what I'm saying? And so, you need both. And so, that's why I wrote this book because I I mean I >> You've been there.

I know what it feels like, George, to, you know, stand in the mirror and you're just crying because your life is not what you thought it would be at this point >> and you wish someone told you. So, here's Jade telling you. So, go get the book. It's on pre-order right now for $24.99.

You get over a hundred bucks in free bonuses like the enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to a Jade video, your financial checkup, and a book exclusive 3-week online book club with a live Q&A with Jade. So, go check it out.

If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. Michael is in Columbia, South Carolina. Up next, welcome to the show, Michael. How can we help?

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Um, first off, I want to say I started taking FPU in January of this year, and it has completely changed the way I look at my finances, has really helped me uh

crush a lot of my debt. So, the class is highly worth it. Um, >> love to hear that. Yeah, I in January when I put all my debts down on paper, uh total of 10 credit cards and two

vehicle payments, uh two vehicle notes, I was around $90,000 in debt. I've brought that down to 655 in the past 10

months. >> Good. Awesome. >> Um I cut up seven of the 10 credit cards. There's three that are still open that have a balance on them and then the two vehicles um are the majority of that

balance. >> Okay. So, my question is, anytime I've got an extra income, I've put it towards the debt snowball. I'm trying to get out of baby step two as fast as possible.

I have a unique situation and I have uh my stepson is 19, our child is nine.

Back in 2019, I had a little bit of extra income. I put it into a 529 account for both of them, about 4,000 each. >> Mhm. That has gone up. When my

19-year-old graduated high school in 2024, he went to a local community college totaling about $3,000 for both

semesters, which is very affordable.

>> After the semester ended last year, he came to us said, "I'm not interested in college. I don't want to go." >> So, I was told the people that manage

the 529 account, I can just roll his amount into my son, my younger son's amount. Mhm.

>> My question is between their two 529 accounts, it's about $11,500.

I have roughly 8 to9 years before my youngest even will go to college.

>> Mhm. >> I know I get penalized for taking money out of the 529 account for use if I'm not using it for school. >> That's right. >> Is it worth it taking that money out now, getting penalized and putting it towards my debts? uh and then you know

building it back up for my younger son after I'm debtree or is it better to keep it in those accounts for the time being until he goes to school 8 n years from now if he goes to school eight or nine years from now. >> Um I have some thoughts in my head about it. Can you tell me more about these cars though before I tell you my thoughts? >> Yeah. Uh, I'm sure it's not the Dave

Ramsey way, but these were purchased.

Uh, we moved to South Carolina 3 years ago and we drove Hoopies for a long time. So, in 2022, right after we moved,

I did end up buying my wife a more reliable vehicle. I bought her a 2022 that had uh 2022 Hyundai that has about 15,000 left on it.

>> 15,000? What's it worth if you sold it?

Just curious. >> Uh, that I don't have off top my head. I do not know. Do you think you're upside down? >> No. No. Honestly, I one one of the things when I took SPU, the reason I took it was that I was I'm like, I make good money. My wife makes okay money, so like how do we just never have money?

And >> when I looked at stuff as like, oh, we're paying for this, we're paying for this. So, I feel like the last 10 months, we've really turned our life around financially where I I handle the finances solely. Not that I don't keep my wife involved. It was just when we got together, she's like, "I'm not into finances.

I don't >> Did you hear the last call?" >> I did. And I was actually laughing during [laughter] it because it's the exact same thing. My wife, I tell my wife all of our financial stuff, but she just is not, she doesn't want to pay the bills. She lets me handle that.

And that was even before we got married. When we got engaged, she's like, "I'm going to have you handle the finances." >> Interesting. We'll talk more about that later.

>> Car number two is a vehicle that I bought for myself. Uh, it's a it was a 2024 that I bought in 2024, a Toyota truck. The vehicle I had before it I drove literally until I don't want to hear about the ex-girlfriend about this car because what you're doing is a brand new truck. >> You're qualifying it before you tell us.

And we don't care. We don't care.

>> I don't care if the engine blew [laughter] up on the last one and so you went to the dealership and you got they suckered you in. >> We want you to be debtree and we're not going to let you excuse yourself out of it. We want you to hit your goals. So tell us about car number two.

This 2024 truck. >> Car number Yeah. car number two. I planned on at the time, this before FPU, I planned on buying a used vehicle.

Um when I went to the dealership, the used vehicle, this was not that much more expensive than the used vehicles at the time.

>> Oh, [laughter] it was it was 54,000

out the door. >> Okay. What do you owe now? >> Um what I have 30 on it.

>> So you've been paying it down. >> I Yeah. And I know you talk about emotional spending. I did get a nice bonus that year, like a very large bonus.

So I was like, I'm going to spoil myself with a new vehicle >> instead of paying off the other debt. You were like, you know what? Let's still go into debt. >> Yeah, this is But yeah, this is prefu before I knew all this stuff.

>> Sure. But common sense would say, let's maybe try to get out of the hole before we dig a new one. >> It it would. And I'm taking my glasses off because yet again, George, this is all it is all emotional.

all your caveats, all of the things that you were trying to qualify, it's emotional and I get that.

You were tired. You were tired. You were frustrated. You wanted to feel like your income was being spent on the things that you enjoy, right? Am I wrong?

>> You were tired of driving. You're tired of driving hoopies. You're a man. You want your wife to feel like she's, you know, that you love her and you want to spoil her a little bit. I I see it. I hear it. I have felt it. I understand.

and you called in trying to figure out

how to get out of debt faster. True.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the plan the, you know, the the debt snowball is working for me, but I'm any extra money I'm having come

in, I'm trying to throw at that.

>> I just want to get that debt down as fast as possible. >> What's your income?

>> Uh, after tax, I make about 72 a year.

>> That's with your wife.

No, no. My wife makes probably about

hers is kind of up in the air because when we moved, she doesn't work full-time. So, she kind of has the luxury of >> what's a normal. >> Can she work full-time?

>> She Yes, she's actually in the past 2 3

months, she has started working more hours. >> Because right now, we don't have the luxury of working part-time. Correct. We both need to be working full-time plus.

So, >> between the two of us pre-tax, we're probably closer to 120 a year. Okay. And

so what, like 7,000 a month? 7,500 a

month. >> Yeah, just around. Yeah, I'd say that's the the sweet spot right there.

>> Oh, go ahead, George. >> I want I just want to make sure we answer your question. I would not crack open my child's piggy bank to essentially make my truck payment.

>> No. >> And so I would be selling that truck.

And the truth is, you're going to pay income tax on that college money. You're going to pay a 10% penalty. So that 11,000 quickly turns into seven grand.

And you're unplugging the growth. Yeah.

Which that's gonna, you know, double, triple by the time your kid's in college. >> And that's if you do nothing to it. So I don't want to unplug the growth. I don't want to pay all these taxes and penalties while this money is growing taxfree. And for that reason, I would sacrifice for my own life before >> hurting the kids' future. So that's what I personally would do is sell the truck, work extra. I would not touch the 529.

>> Yeah, I agree. And for other reasons, too. It's too much of your world to have this much tied up in vehicles that are going down in value. >> Yeah, [music] that is very true. You got some nice cars in that driveway. I'd rather see you guys building wealth [music] instead of driving a truck that's going down in value every day.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jay Warshaw. Open phones at88255225.

Joseph is in Pittsburgh up next. What's going on, Joseph?

>> Yes. >> What's happening?

>> What's going on? How are you?

>> Good. What's your question today?

>> Uh, my girlfriend going to be fiance is

going and I are going to be bu building a house costing around $700,000 and we

want to know if we're way over our heads or if this is actually feasible.

>> Numbers aside, you're in way over your heads. There's not even a ring on the finger and you're going to sign up for a mortgage and put your names on a deed together.

No, the by the time that the deed is there, there would be a ring on the finger.

>> So, this is going to be a new build and you're just hoping that all the plans work out perfectly.

>> Yes. Um, we we do have the ability to live with either of our parents rentree.

Um, obviously that's not ideal, but we're going to have to do that.

>> Um, being built. >> Why do we have to do any of this? Yes.

>> Tell let me lay out a different path and you tell me why it doesn't work for you guys. >> Why not get engaged, get married, rent

together, save up on your own, and then

purchase a house or build when you're financially ready? >> Yeah. What's the rush? >> So, we would like to start a family early um around 2028, 2027. And our

initial thoughts are renting is putting money into a place that doesn't build us wealth. So, we might as well put it towards a house that's going to be building us wealth. And if we have to live with our parents for a year or two, we're perfectly fine with that because we do have stable jobs that we're able to >> How much money do you guys have right now? >> Money off of >> Right now, we have about

$60,000 in savings and then a little bit more in checking. >> How much do you plan on putting down on this $700,000 house?

So, we are looking to put down around between 100 and 130,000 down on the house. And then her parents are extremely wealthy and they were planning on matching whatever >> we put down. So, 260.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. And why do you need a $700,000 home as newlyweds >> in Pittsburgh? >> We are looking We are looking to have kids. So, it's in the suburbs and we're going to be building so that we don't have as many maintenance house issues.

Um, simply put, we're trying to set ourselves up for the future where we don't have to move. We don't have to do all these other things. We're just on that path of get a house and live there.

>> What's your incomes? >> Not a custom build. Um, our income, we

are both around 32 to 35,000 a month.

>> A month?

Yes. And that is not including commission. >> So you both earn >> not a thousand 3,200.

>> Good. I was about to show

>> I was like, "Well, yeah, you guys are making [laughter] a million dollars." Okay, so you're making like 70 grand and you're How are you going to afford a $5,000 a month mortgage?

>> Yeah, that's what I'm doing cuz I just We both did the math. That's funny. >> We also >> So we also She has commission. She is an

insurance agent, so she has commission coming back for her. I also own my own company that brings in 2 to 3,000 as well on top of that a month.

>> So, you're at 10,000

>> a month. >> About that. Yeah. >> So, we're already setting ourselves up where half of our take-home pay goes toward the mortgage. >> Yeah. You're still at half. Before you were even worse, but even with the 10,000, what I'm seeing on here,4500

for for the mortgage, if you put down $ 260 on a $700,000 house, you're house

poor. >> Right.

>> Right. >> And you're fine with that?

>> No, we're not fine with that at all. We we're obviously going to be expanding our our income. We're trying to see if

this is feasible now because we do have

career projections going forward that it

won't be anywhere close to that as well as my business and her commission are

projected to double. >> Everything you're saying, Joseph, I'm I'm with you. I love dreams. Like I love a good dream. I love to plan. I love goals. But you're setting yourself up um in a situation where everything must go as planned for this to work out. And even if it does go as planned, you're still setting yourself up for several years of a situation where your house is 50% where your house poor for several years. So even if everything is perfect, you're still setting that up, which is not good. I truly truly would love for

you to slow down a little bit on this

and say, "Okay, let's do all of this, but let's just do it in the right order and at the right time. Let's get married.

Then if you want to live with your parents, that's your prerogative. I wouldn't do it. But if you want to live with the parents to save more money faster, like that's y'all's choice if you want to do that. And then save up.

Make sure when you do buy a house when it's time that it's the right percentage of your takehome. Make it to where you're not house poor. You have this amazing deal where your in-laws are going to match that amount. That's awesome. Milk it for all it's worth and make sure you get to a point where you can get this thing to 25%. Okay. Then

you're in a situation. I'm fine with you guys doing this thing believing that this is going to be the only house you ever buy for the next 20 years. If you want to believe that, that's okay. But let's Can we just do it right? Can we pump the brakes just a little so it's all done in the right time?

>> Yeah. Is this a thing where to increase our incomes first or a savings and

emergency fund kind of deal? >> I think it's both. And you said that there's a there's a path where both of you guys earn more. And it's it's as you

do that, you're saving up more, too, right? Because I'm also looking at this on a 15-year fixed. My guess is that you were looking at it on a 30-year. Am I right?

>> Um I I have both in front of me, but yes, I was looking at a 30-year fix.

>> And again, all that you're doing that because you're trying to go fast. I want to go fast.

Why? You have your whole life together.

I get it. I know. I I get it. But

>> so I we are both 21.

>> Who who told you it's too late? Who told you you have to rush into this or else?

And you got to do this by this time and we're going to make this much. I just think we're there's something else going on here where you're wanting to rush the process and leapfrog into a lifestyle that you just can't afford yet.

>> No, we we've been dating for about four years and going to be graduating this upcoming May from college. Um, we're I'm

working around 50 to 60 hours a week.

She's working 30, going to be 40 this upcoming semester.

>> It was just one of those things where >> we were looking at it. Yes, we were dreaming big and we saw that we could afford it and we would still have extra income coming.

>> It's already artificially propped up with the in-laws money >> and so I would go with what you guys can afford. And if you can get a $400,000 threebedroom, I would do that and have a small mortgage that you can knock out quickly and you can upgrade over time because the truth is you're going to hate your house 5 years from now for whatever reason and you're going to move. It's okay to move 6 years from now as your life changes. But we don't need to plan for well one day we're going to have five kids so we might as well get the fivebedroom now and just get ahead of it.

We don't even have a ring on the finger. So I would just do things in order.

You're a planner. You're futuristic. I have a lot of that in me, but I know I fall flat on my face when I make too many plans and one domino doesn't work out. What if she stays home once you guys have kids and you go, "Oh my gosh, well, we projected that her income would be 100,000 by now. This totally screws up our plan." So, I would move real slow and realize you don't need the lifestyle that her parents have today at 21 years old. It's okay for it to take a while.

That's actually healthy.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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[music]

[music]

Gabby's in Springfield, Missouri. Up next. Welcome to the show, Gabby. How can we help?

>> Hi, guys. I'm grateful to be talking with you. I listen to the show all the time. Um, I also want to shout out my husband and my anniversary is today. So, shout out to him. Love you, honey. Um, the heart of my question, thank you. U, the heart of my question is, in working the debt snowball, should I skip to the next biggest debt with the intention for the military to pay off my student loans?

>> How much of a guarantee is this and how long of a journey is it going to be?

>> Uh, great question. So, we are currently in baby step two and working off our debt. We've paid off about 20,000 of our 100,000 so far um over the past several

months and we have about 25,000 in student loans. That's the next step in tackling the debt snowball. I serve in the Army National Guard, but I'm a nurse on the civilian side and my next Army contract begins in May of 2027. When signing a new contract, I basically have two options. either a $10,000 lump sum that's heavily taxed so it equivalates to about 7500 or for the government to pay towards my student loans up to 2,000 a month. Um so in theory they would pay towards all of it over the course of a three-year contract.

>> So $2,000 a month for the entire time.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Start but contract >> but it doesn't even start until 2027.

>> Correct. Yeah. uh with the last contract that I signed, not all of the options were presented to me. So I took to the $10,000 lump sum >> um and it equivalated to about 7,500 and we put that towards debt. Um but we got stupid again. So we, you know, acrewed more debt. So I don't know approximately how much of that, you know, actually made a dent towards it. But um >> but if you do it this way, you're not done till 2030.

>> Correct. Yeah, that's the thing. So, if we continued to pay the minimums on student loans, we would still be paying about 6,500 in the time that it would take to get to May of 2027 >> until my contract renews. But, you know, mathematically, they would be paying off 25,000 in student loans for the sacrifice of, you know, paying the minimums and 6,500. >> So, you have to ask yourself, is the 15,000 because let me just make sure it's a lump sum of 10 or it's pay this

off. it'll take until 2030. So, you have to ask yourself, is the the $15,000

difference, is it worth the next five to

six years of your life, >> right? Yeah. And that's kind of why I'm conflicted and asking you because if it's, you know, them paying towards it and that's, you know, basically free money. >> If this wasn't on the table, would you still sign this contract?

>> Um, >> or is part of it just like, well, there's a good benefit.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's a it's an amazing benefit, but yeah, I would still sign the contract for the fact that the reason um we have awesome insurance through the military. My husband's a type 1 diabetic and civilian side insurance is crazy expensive for him.

So, >> what's your household income? >> Yeah. >> Um so, together we make about 182,000. I

bring in about 4,800 a month. My husband brings in about 4,000 a month. But I have um I'm working three jobs right now, including my military job, my civilian job, and then I also pick up shifts at the hospital since I'm on our civilian side. >> Wow. You guys have kids? >> So picking up extra shift. We do, and we have one on the way. That's another piece of the puzzle. >> Well, that's why I'm going like, are you going to be able to keep this up for 3 years?

>> Um so my civilian job, uh is very

flexible with the timing. So I like I'm staying at home with my daughter today. we just have the one and she's two, but we do have one on the way. Um, and I'm

just like the kind of person that just like grinds and grinds and works and so yes, realistically I probably won't be able to pick up many shifts at the hospital the later I get into my pregnancy. But yeah, ideally like after

the baby comes and we get all settled in, I'll be able to pick up like one shift a week, maybe two.

>> How long do you plan on it taking? So you said there was uh, let me go back.

There was $90,000 of debt. You've already paid off 20, right?

>> Or 100. Did you start with 100?

>> Like >> it was more like 120 to start off with.

So as it currently stands, we're we have about 100,000 in.

>> So you have 100,000 to go. What else is there other than the 25 in student loans? >> Sure. Let me break it down. So we've got about 20,000 in consumer debt. Um that's

like credit cards and things. Uh my husband's car uh we owe about 11,000.

Mhm. >> Um, we replaced our HVAC system earlier this year when it went out, uh, which cost a pretty penny. That one's about 11,000.

>> My car is where we got silly and we got

a new car whenever my last car uh, got totaled. >> Um, we still owe about 32,000 on it. I already Kelly Blueooked it and it was appraising for 25 to 29,000. So 29,00

private sale. >> Okay. Um, is anything else or that that was it? And then the the 25,000 in student loans. So it all equivalates to about 100,000 right now. >> What's your projection for paying off this other 75? Like how long do you guys see this taking you?

>> Yeah. Um right now, uh with our budget,

we can with me picking up extra shifts and getting an extra 2K a month, we have about three 30 3,000 to 3500 in margin

>> a month, maybe a little bit extra >> um that we can throw at debt. So, like this month alone, we paid off three of our smaller debts, which is like a big ego boost, I guess, to keep on going.

So, um hopefully we can pay off all of our debt in the next 18 months, and I

can't remember if the way I calculated it included the 25,000 in student loans or not. >> Is that what you got, George? >> I doubt it cuz the 75 grand 3500 a

month, that's 21 months. That's without the student loans. >> Okay. >> So, >> yeah. And I think that that was just me being like, let me get super aggressive and pick up an extra shift.

>> Yeah. >> A week or so. So, >> I just know as a as a dad of a newborn, it's just life is going to have to slow down a little bit. And so, I don't know that you can keep it the same pace in this season.

And for those reasons, I feel like you guys could just get aggressive right now and start to really tackle this. >> I mean, you could delay the student loans and do the contract May of 27. I don't think that like it's going to be on fire.

>> I kind of like that idea of what George is saying >> even on your own. I don't I just It's not that big of a It's not like they're paying off $150,000 of student loan debt. >> It's a $15,000 swing if you look at it.

>> Yeah. And you guys make $180 grand. So in the grand scheme of life, you could do that in three months on your own dime and be done with it. Because if you still still if you decide to sign the contract in 20 20 boy boy 2027 there's

still the 10K that they could offer as a lump sum and when that comes you can do with it what the baby whatever baby step you're on or whatever life calls for at that moment. So it's not like it's not an all or nothing thing per se. There's still money on the table that you can have in 2027 if it feels right to sign that contract. But I like the freedom of

and the [snorts] openness of just being able to take control of your situation and be done with it when you're ready to be done.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I I I would agree. That's what my father-in-law is swaying towards. But, you know, the the military personnel that I trust, their advice, they're swaying in my direction, which is like just continue to pay the minimums and let the military pay for your >> it's free money like in essence, but when you factor in your time and your emotion and your choice in the matter,

there's that also is has a cost in this equation and we want to not leave that out. >> Do you guys have savings right now?

Um, we are really following the Ramsay plan, so we diminished our savings down to the a thousand. Um, but my husband, you know, with me being pregnant, he's he's getting a little bit more cautious.

So, we're kind of doing Ramsayish as a compromise. >> Well, we'll tell you, let me give you permission to be Ramsay-ish and go just stor. So, it's okay to pause the debt

snowball right now and just stack up cash cuz we just don't know what's going to happen until baby and mom are home safe. So, when is baby due?

>> That's true. uh June of 26.

>> Okay, awesome. Yeah, I mean there could be a great scenario where you guys just stack up a bunch of cash and then you're good. The insurance paid most of it and now we hit play on the baby steps and we have a big pile of cash to throw at these debts.

>> That's true. That's true. >> So, I think that would give you some peace of mind during an already pretty stressful time where you're working multiple jobs, pregnant, trying to handle all this $100,000 of debt. Um,

it's okay for it to not be at, you know,

break neck pace.

>> Okay. Yeah, thank you. I just needed that extra reassurance that everyone tells me to slow down, but I'm just like in that mentality of life is on fire. We need to go while we're young energy.

>> Well, [laughter] it serves you well when it comes to the debtree journey. That's right. But, you know, that stress can take a toll on on you and the baby. So, I'm just looking out for your health as well during this time. the baby steps.

It's a great framework, but life is going to happen. It's okay to hit pause for a moment when you want to be intentional and make sure that you're also protecting your family. [music] So, thank you for the call. Thank you for your service. Uh especially coming on the heels of uh Veterans Day. So, this is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan made just for you.

Simply head to the show notes and click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Aaron is in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Aaron?

>> Hey, George. Hey. Um, my wife and I are, you know, kind of batting around the idea of moving back to Raleigh, North Carolina from, um, a small town in South

Carolina, just about 2 hours south. Uh, and just kind of curious how we balanced the desires. So, you know, we got married in October of 21, moved down here in May of 22 and, uh, you know,

wanted to be closer to my wife's family, uh, with us being newly wed and wanting to have kids and we've had some issues with infertility. Um, but, you know,

just kind of curious. I really have been the one that, you know, wants to push to to go back to that area. I've been remote and just feeling a bit stir crazy. Um, and we're in baby step 7. Our

income's about 173,000. So, just kind of

curious what your thoughts are on balancing those desires between my wife wanting to be close to her family um

versus, you know, wanting to be in person for work and just a little bit more to do uh and getting back into our old gyms and routines and things of that nature. >> So, it's not a financial conundrum, it's a quality of life for you guys.

Yeah, quality of life. And it sort of feels like a financial piece because, you know, going from no mortgage to, you know, maybe renting for a year until our house sells and buying a a more expensive house in that area. Um, you

know, so it becomes a little bit of a concern. You know, we've been debtree fully with the house and everything since last September. Um, so it's a

little bit of both. >> So, what's the house worth?

Um, right around 360 to 370.

>> Okay. And what would the house cost in the new area?

>> Uh, in Raleigh, um, maybe 450 on the low end up to 600.

>> Okay. Do you guys have any money saved >> for something 450 to 500?

>> Yeah. Around uh, 30,000.

>> Okay. And then what's the urgency around this? Is this we want to make this happen in two months or two years?

>> Yeah. So, we've been talking about it. I actually the new job that I took is based out of that area, but they let me stay remote because we had some uncertainty about wanting to move.

>> Um, >> that's convenient. >> You know, we were actually supposed to move back in May, but they let me stay remote. >> So, are you stir crazy meaning I want to be in an office and that would that solve this if we got you an office?

>> That's what I'm feeling. Yeah, just being around the house all day.

>> Cuz we can solve that. You can go get an office in your area now.

>> Yeah. That's less about Raleigh and more about just finding you a job where you can be around people.

>> Yeah. So, I was in person. There's pretty much one main employer in this area. I'd have to drive an hour and a half to Charlotte or an hour to Florence. Um, so there's just not really any opportunities. We're in a pretty rural area. And I was working um

whenever we came down here with a local employer, but I left after about two and a half years. There's just poor management and they were doing a lot of fraud and just wasn't comfortable with it. So I started looking for a new opportunity. >> Erin, help me understand. I just want to make sure your wife wants to move or your wife is not sure.

>> Unsure. So she does want to be close to family if we are able to have kids. You know, she likes the idea of being able to be near her family here.

>> Um, >> is your family in Raleigh? >> Also miss the gym. My family is in that area. >> Okay. So it's not just the gym and

creature comforts. Your family is there.

So there's family in each spot.

Okay. >> Yeah. Not as much of a concern for me being you're the family. You know, we're pretty independent. And >> does she like your family? Like are they are you guys really great relationship with her with your family?

>> Yeah, I think so. I think it's um I don't think she would be as comfortable like if we had kids with my mom and dad, you know, just their house can be a little bit chaotic versus her home is or her family is uh a little bit more put together in that sense. >> Okay. >> I think that's a fear from her side for sure. >> I Yeah, I I go back to what we said before. I'm not sure that Raleigh is

I'm trying to kind of prioritize what you're saying. It sounds like I feel like I heard you say being in office or

you know being around people is was the number one thing. Then for you it sounded like the number one thing. Did you say like being able to go back to our gym? Is did I hear you say that?

>> Yeah. Just like lifestyle more to do actually having like a gym to go to and more things to

>> area. Okay. So >> is it >> Yeah, she used to always love going to HomeGoods and stuff like that, you know. So, we kind of miss we both miss that piece for sure. >> Got it. Got it. Got it. Um I mean for me

the house thing I think if you guys really want to do this it's just a matter of saying okay we make a good salary now. Can we save up um a good portion of this to where if we do take out a mortgage is really really small and then we're committed to knocking it out pretty quickly. I don't think there's anything wrong with this. >> Yeah.

It's it's you know if you call Dave you'd say well it's ideal if you did 100% cash. That'd be awesome. But it's not. We're not going to yell at you for taking out a 15 year, knocking it out early, you're going to do that regardless.

So, my take is I would do it. Make it an adventure. And you can always undo it if it's just terrible in Raleigh and this was not what you thought it was. I I do think it's wise to rent.

I know it feels like you're throwing away money, but if you just rent for even six months >> to a year and get your bearings, figure out what area you want to live in, figure out what area has the right schools and how close to family you want to be. All of that is going to play into it. >> Yeah. And don't buy don't buy anything until this old one sells, please.

That's >> Yeah. You don't want two mortgages on your hands. You won't have a mortgage on this one >> until it's sold. >> And you can still time that.

I mean, it's it's very much possible and you can make it contingent, but you're going to be uh it's going to be easier if you already have your home sold and now you have all that cash sitting there.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. My biggest thing was just kind of the weight of, you know, those different values like my wife with being close to her family versus, you know, some of those lifestyle choices. Like I said, it wasn't as big of a concern being you're my family. >> She's got to be on board. >> Feel like I could move to >> I could move to Tennessee or Georgia, you know, but >> it's not a financial thing on our end.

Your wife's just got to be on board with it. I think that's more of I think that's the biggest question I hear is >> is she 100% with you on, man, we just we

got to get out of here. We got to go to Raleigh. Um she might be saying things like, oh, I wish there was a HomeGoods or I wish there was things, but does she actually want to move? Um sit down tonight. like you guys go on a date this weekend or do something where you're really laying this thing out. Um, make

sure you're on the same page about it.

It's not a financial problem.

>> I can tell you that.

>> It's just you guys >> and you guys aren't pregnant yet and there's hope that you could be in the next few months. What's the timeline there?

>> Yeah, we've been battling infertility for the last two years. So, it's still a

work in progress there. >> Yeah, I mean that's its own journey. And so the the question is, do we want to, you know, keep this up for a few more years before we make a big decision to move? Because, you know, if you guys get pregnant, and I hope you do, well, now we have at least some concrete next steps.

There's there's something happening that sort of starts this the catalyst. And in the meantime, if you want to get out of the house, get out of the house and go find somewhere to work, maybe even lease a spot that's cheap, somewhere you can rent out, a little office to get away.

>> Mhm. But good luck, man. There's a lot going on. I don't think there's any bad moves here. >> The only bad way is if you drag her through this and she's kicking and screaming and you're like, "We said this is going to be awesome." So, that's the tough part is the relational aspect of just getting aligned on, "Hey, we said we're doing this. Now, we got to make peace with that decision." And it is a big one, but again, it's nothing's fatal here. So, I wish you the best of luck.

>> Quality of life, George, is a big, you know, we can't forget about that all the We're asking people to sacrifice to win and there's a time and place for that.

You know, you you might have a season where you work a job you don't really like to get the paycheck so you can pay off the debt, right? But the overarching picture, the biggest piece of life, yeah, you should be doing work that you enjoy. You should be in a in a community and in an environment that you that you enjoy. If family is close to you, yeah, like we want that for you.

Quality of life matters. >> And that's why the baby steps matter even more in these cases cuz if you have financial peace, you got options. But if you're in crippling debt and you don't have the income to support it, you're out of options. And so I love that they're doing this the right way.

Baby step seven, no mortgage. And they're going, "Yeah, we could do it either way financially." It's the emotional part we got to wrestle with. >> And that part can be even more difficult sometimes.

[music]

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>> [music]

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or just use the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Dan is in DC up next. What's going on, Dan?

Hey guys, how are you?

>> Great. How can we help today? >> Awesome. So, um, a couple things. I'll give you the the quick synopsis of it.

Um, I'm looking to find a best way to invest a million dollars. Um, >> was hypothetical or real?

>> It's real. It's actually crazy. U, so

what happened was, um, my wife, she's a,

uh, she works for a big box retailer.

Um, she makes about 200. I own my own business. I make about 75.

Um, we own a home. It's We bought it at

>> [clears throat] >> um about 365,000.

We owe 260 on it right now, but the interest rate is 3%. And we have a son who's 13. We've got a 529 for him.

There's about 30,000 in it right now. My wife's got a 401k that has about 315,000

in it. Um, she puts in

7% of her pay and the company matches 5%.

Um, there's there's stock options as well with her. And what happened was my

business that I own, we came into a very lucrative deal. Um, we considered it's probably going to be a one-time shot unless something else happens again. Um, but we're considering it a one time shot. Uh it was a $2 million gross uh

business and we netted just over a million dollars from that. So

>> Wow. from the deal. Is it a full buyout?

>> Uh it was not a buyout. No, I still own the company. Uh we just we just got a

very really awesome opportunity. We took

it and it worked out really well. Okay.

So, so basically, right, um, we had we

had 130,000 in debt when we started

Ramsay's Baby Steps about 5 years ago, and that was just from cars, student loan, credit card debt. Uh, so that is

paid off. Super happy with that. Um, our

house again, we owe 260. It's only 3% um

loan on it right now. But my thought is

uh you know, we don't need the million dollars. Uh we're in a different situation, right? My wife makes really good money. We make money. We're fine.

>> Do we put this in different investments?

Uh should I throw a h 100,000 into my kids 529 and just let it sit there so

that way that is covered? Um, should I

utilize like a personal advisor? We went

to a couple different like banks or or folks just in general. Um, you know, they want fairly decent amount of money to manage our money.

>> U, so personal advisors, they want around 1.2%.

Robo advisors online, they're much cheaper. Uh I just got done a conversation with a Vanguard and they want.3% and they give because of the amount of money that we have available to invest.

They'll give us um a you know a real

person. So that's already kind of the the winner on it in my mind. And we're

looking to hopefully retire faster now.

So, uh, we're both 40 and it would be

great if we could retire say 55, >> maybe a little bit earlier if the investment strategies are right.

>> Yeah. >> But, um, >> there are a lot of good things on the table here. >> So, you're you're saying you're going to net a million million net income lands in a savings account. What do you do today?

>> Yep. It's there in the it's there in the money market. >> Okay. [laughter] I can tell you're you're really good at numbers. you know your stuff, which is very impressive and that bodess well for you. I would, here's what I would do personally. I would pay off the mortgage today. And I know you're going to say, "Well, it's 3%.

It's three. Why would I pay off a 3% mortgage?" I would do it for the peace of mind, for the risk factor, and for the fact that you can now invest what was your mortgage payment. >> Mhm. >> And that's going to really free you guys up to retire earlier when you have no mortgage left. And then you're still going to have a ton of money left over.

So, I would put maybe 40 or 50K into that 529 and frontload it.

>> I would do that. >> You don't want to overfund it cuz if you put 100K in there and that money doubles in the next 7 years as your kid heads off to college, there could be, you know, 250,000 might that might be reasonable for what college costs 7 years from now. So, if you wanted to just frontload it and then never put another dime in, you'll probably have 200 plus,000 in there by the time college rolls around. I would also enjoy some of it.

So, I would do something fun, plan a trip. You guys have no other consumer debt, right?

>> We have no other debt. No, just the house. >> Great. >> Wow, that's great. >> So, you've got some spending goals.

Let's do something fun and enjoy the fruits of our labor. Let's have some giving goals. Let's give generously and do something that blows our mind that we thought we would never be able to do.

And then let's have some saving and investing goals. And part of that is getting rid of the mortgage to then free up money to build wealth because now that really increases your net worth.

Uh, so there's a few things you could do. I think all of it's good. If you feel comfortable handling the investment side on your own or through Vanguard, that's fine. You can park it in an index fund for now. That's probably what I would do. And, you know, it can start simple. You know, if you're happy with what you're invested in in your 401ks, that's a great place to start. like those same funds or similar funds.

That's a great place to start, especially if they're um [snorts] well diversified and you know, you're split between growth and income and aggressive growth and international and all of that. I feel like that's a great place to start. And yeah, >> I would also max out all of your tax advantage retirement options first. And so her 401k, maybe she goes in and ratches it up that contribution through the end of the year to max it out if she hasn't already.

I don't think she has based on 7% of her 200,000 salary. So, you could do that to start. You could do some backdoor Roth IAS if you guys don't qualify for um Roth IAS because of your income. >> And you can max out an HSA if you have access to a health savings account.

So, there's a lot of things you can do that are tax advantage. And for that reason, that would be the reason I work with a financial adviser, not because of, well, this one charges this fee, this one charges this fee.

>> Okay? >> So, I would sit down with your wife tonight and just kind of have a little dream date and go, here's all the things we could do. Let's prioritize from this million dollars. What's the first thing we're going to do? Pay off the mortgage.

What's the next thing we're going to do? Fund the front load the 529. Next thing we're going to do, max out the 401ks and backdoor Roths and whatever other options we have. Then whatever's left, I would just park in an index fund for now or even a high yield savings account until you know what you want to do next.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it.

Yeah, that's we're we're looking at maxing out the IRA, maxing out um like

an HSA and um and trying to do that. I

don't h I have a small 401k that I started the business about five years ago uh that we took some money out of just to uh just to start it and so

luckily she makes enough that I can play with this business and it worked out.

>> That's so awesome. Way to go.

>> I'm super pumped for you guys. That's fantastic. And the good news is this this extra money lay that's laying around in the index fund that can kind of become a bridge account for you guys to make it from you know 55 years old to

59 and a half to where you can access retirement without penalty. So it's a great strategy if you want to be work optional. My guess is a guy like you is probably going to be like a serial entrepreneur and just jump back into another new exciting thing.

>> Yeah. >> Or consulting. >> And so this this is really a a best case scenario. I love getting a call like this. I know. It's a great problem to have. >> It's a fun money. >> What do I do with a million? Cuz usually if someone says that, it's a 23-year-old who's a hypothetical.

>> Yeah. >> How do I get a million? What do I do with a million? I'm like, well, how much do you have?

I got 4,000. I'm like, okay, [laughter] well, call us back when you have the money, but I can tell you what I would do with it. >> Yeah. This is the real deal.

Very, very good. Exciting. And that's that's a tough one, Jade, with a 3% mortgage because I hear a lot of these people are hanging on to these lowinterest mortgages going, "Well, I can make more in a savings account, so why would I?" >> Yeah. >> And it's so much more than just a math problem.

It's so much more than arbitrage and spread and leverage.

risk. [music] It's peace of mind. And talk to people who paid off their mortgage. I haven't talked to, "Dang it, I regret that. I lost my 3% mortgage." [music] Cuz you know what my interest rate is on my mortgage? Zero. Oh, it doesn't exist. So, I'll take that over 3% any day. And they're going to build wealth [music] just fine without the spread. So, congratulations, guys.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, flying solo this hour, taking your calls at88255225.

You call up, I'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Janine is with us in Newark, New Jersey. What's going on, Janine?

>> Hi. Um, so there's uh some discrepancies

between how my husband and I think about

finances. We've been married uh it'll be 31 years next week. And um just today I

we were looking at some cash and um we

were going to pay um to have some work

done. Anyway, uh he left me a note

saying he left $1,300. Uh he doesn't have any more. he'd have to go to the bank. And um I know for a fact that

there was 2,200 in an envelope. And so I know he lied.

And um I also had a discussion earlier

with him about tithing um and the fact

that that has not been something that is consistent uh with him because he is in control of

finances and he said that he would uh he

can't talk about the past but he can just do better in the future. But I've heard that before because I've had this conversation about the tithing before.

So, how am I supposed to trust him with,

you know, the past history in tithing and the fact that um,

you know, I believe he lied about the the cash that was in the house.

>> I think we can agree on that. There was Did you confront him and say there was 2,200? Why is there 13? Where'd the $900

go? >> No, he did say he left some to uh for

for some spending money. and he had set

the money in a in a safe. Um, but I have

the the code to the safe because he's, you know, for your protection if you need to get in here. >> Sure. >> To use. >> And was there $900 in there?

>> Well, I I looked the other day and it was the the 2,200 and then I looked again today after I received that text about the 1300 and I looked and I didn't

I didn't count it, but I there was more.

It was more than just some spending money. And >> so he you think he's clearly lying to you. And do you think there's something going on here? An addiction, an affair,

that that reason why he's withholding this information?

>> No, I just think it's a

I just think it's a controlling I think it's a controlling thing. I I don't >> You can be controlling because you're trying to hide the vice or addiction.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I he >> I don't think there is. I just don't understand.

>> Um yeah, I I just don't understand the defeat. >> And if you bring it up with him, he just gets defensive and says, "Well, I'll just try to do better cuz that's not good." >> That was that that was regarding the tithing. And um so he controls the

accounts. I have access to them and that's why I was able to. >> So, what do you mean by control?

>> Um, he takes care of all the bills. He pays all of the bills. He always has.

Um, when we first got married, he had money saved. I did not because I was a

spender. I had no debt, but I had no savings. And >> you relegated it to him to handle it.

>> Yeah. and he pretty much, you know, based on the fact that he's a saver,

kind of took over took over the >> How much money do you guys have saved?

>> So, right now, so this is I know this

won't be agreed upon, but we have a joint savings. Um there's like 35 in that um joint >> 35,000 or 100 >> thousand, but we also inherited some money um a few years back. And so between the money that we inherited, his um

uh tax deferred, my tax deferred, there's uh like 1.3 mil in there.

>> Okay. >> Um and so I've even wanted to pay off

the mortgage. There's only about

60 or 70,000 left on the mortgage.

>> And how old are you, Tim? >> And um I'm 59. and his mid60s.

>> Okay. How long has your marriage over these 31 years lacked communication and

trust?

>> Oh, most of them. >> Okay. That's what I was getting at. This has been going on a long time, which makes you an accomplice to the crime >> cuz you've been sitting back allowing it to happen to you, >> right? >> And so, there needs to be come to Jesus meeting and some marriage counseling to go, we're not on the same page. We haven't been on the same page. We have money in spite of our lack of alignment,

lack of values, lack of just transparency when it comes to money. You can say, "I have access to the accounts, but we are not on the same page, and I want to know exactly where this money is going and what else is going on here in order to rebuild trust." And if he can't straight up tell you, if he starts to get nervous and defensive, that's a sign that this marriage has not been a marriage for a long time.

Oh, >> it's been a transactional partnership.

>> Yes. >> And that's the that's going to be the sad truth that you have to face >> is that we sort of played house as two people who live together, but we are miles apart.

>> Yep.

Yeah. I It's It's just been that has

been difficult. I've asked there's no budget to speak of. Um, as long as the the bills get paid, you know, the the

credit card gets paid every month, then, you know, we're we're doing good. And >> and the rest of the money disappears into where he over wherever he wants it to go. >> Yeah. But it's not really disappearing.

It was, you know, private school, tuition, college. So I I

>> Kids are out of the house.

>> Um, they're all in they're all in their 20s, but three out of the four remain.

in the house.

>> Okay. I think we need to we need to have a come to Jesus to go, hey, we're we're in the last quarter here of this marriage. I want to make this great. It hasn't been great and I want to know if you're on the same team.

I think if you come at it attacking, he's just going to get defensive again. But if you come at it and say, "Listen, I haven't done a great job being involved and that part's on me, but you have not done a great job communicating where our money's going." And it's left me wondering, is there something else going on? Why can't you be honest with me about where this cash is? Why is it all just smoke and mirrors and and defense?

And if he can't get there, you definitely need marriage counseling yesterday. I don't know that he's willing to go.

>> Um that's been a struggle um over the

years, me always asking and um it's

never helped. So why why try it again?

>> You need to go solo then until he's on board. Would you go by yourself? >> I am. I'm currently >> Okay. And what's come of that?

>> Um, we're just getting into some of the stuff. Um, so,

you know, I I think I'm at a realization of really am,

you know, been unhappy for 20 years or

more and do I want to finish the last 20

of my life? >> Yeah. >> Continuing to be unhappy. So that's my

that's kind of what's been rolling around in my head for the last few days and especially after today.

>> Yeah. Well, the it's going to take time and consistency and honesty and transparency, which means we're doing a budget every month. All our accounts are combined. There's no just loose cash, you know, fluttering away every month.

I don't know that he's willing to do that. And at that point, you're going to have to make a hard call. Do I want to continue down this route of misery and [music] lack of trust or do I need to just create the my own last chapter of my life? I can't make that decision for you, but I hope that you guys come to a conclusion and you don't let this drag on for another 20 or 30 years.

[music]

The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. When your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. But Yrefi won't judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control.

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Erica in Oregon.

We've been listening to the show for about 6 months. We're in our early 50s and our debtree. Our net worth is 1.5 million, including our paid off home.

Our income is $275,000 a year. Our HSA and retirement investments are maxed out for the year.

But then there's our quote tin can. We

have about $260,000 in savings accounts and CDs. We both

grew up in homes with parents who didn't talk about finances. Is that too much of a safety net? How much is too much?

Great question here. So, the real question is how much should you have in savings before you go? We should probably move this elsewhere. Now, I do like that it's not literally in a tin can because we've gotten that call before where it's just cash buried in the backyard, which is at physical risk

and it's at risk of just being eaten away by inflation. So, if you think about money, um, let's think about an ice cube, right? If you put an ice cube in the microwave, it's going to melt fast. That's kind of like just keeping a lot of cash on hand because it's not even keeping up with the rate of inflation. Now, let's call it room temperature. you have ice out at room temp if it's, you know, uh, sitting on the counter and that's really your CDs, your savings accounts. It's keeping up.

It's slowly melting, but you're at least keeping up. And so, what I would rather you do is keep that in the deep freezer, which is investing your money into the market beyond what you're going to need for an emergency fund. So, you guys make 275 a year. I would sit down and look at your actual expenses for the year in your early 50s and go, "All right, we actually spend $100,000 a year." So 6

months of that would be $50,000. Now if

you want to go a little bit higher, maybe you guys plan on retiring early and you want to have a few years in case there's a down market or you need to pull from that cash or you have some big upcoming expenses, you can keep that in savings as well. But I think beyond 100,000 we're getting into like paranoid apocalyptic territory. And the truth is your money is safe. If it's in a bank account that is FDIC insured or NCUA insured, if it's with a credit union, your money is safe.

It's not going anywhere. If everybody's money disappeared, we're we're definitely going to be in apocalyptic state. And that's just not realistic. And even your money in the stock market, if you think your money is going to go to zero in the stock market in an index fund or mutual fund with hundreds of companies, what you're really saying is, I think the top 500 companies in America are all going to go to zero, go completely bankrupt, and that's that's why I have this money in cash.

And again, in that scenario, we have an apocalyptic situation that's beyond money. We're going to be fighting for food and ammo at that point. So, how much is too much? Anything beyond six months, unless you have a real strong case, a real strong goal for why you need more than that or why you have a separate savings account, I would rather you park it in the market making on average 10 to 12% versus 3 or 4%.

Eric, I hope that helps.

Congratulations. You guys have done really well. No debt, making 275. You're going to make up for a lot of lost time and retire multi-millionaires. So, I don't I think this is a nothing burger, but I appreciate the question. Trey is in Atlanta up next. What's going on, Trey?

You with us? Trey?

>> Hey, how you doing? >> Great. Love your energy. Coming in hot.

What's going on? So, I over I got my first job a year ago

and I over the a year and a half ago and I saved $47,000 and I my only debt is my student loan

debt which is $10,000 at a 4% interest

rate. Now, my goal is next year to be married and I want to purchase a multi-unit home uh to kind of house hack

the other side. Um, but I I've read Dave Ramsey's book and he talks about, you know, obviously getting out of debt. And I've spoken with multiple financial advisors and they said, "Hey, since it's only $10,000 at 4% interest rate, man,

don't worry about it. Just keep your cash so you could get that home." Um, and I wanted to hear your take on that.

>> Well, here's the thing. Financial advisors are incentivized to keep you invested. Would you agree?

>> Uh, yeah, I would agree with that. So, if they're managing your 47 and then you take it down to 37 to pay off your debt, they make less money. >> They weren't my managers. I'm sorry.

They were oneoff conversations I've had with them, seek out advice, but they weren't working with me by no means.

Yeah. >> Same principle applies, financial advisors in general. Now, the good ones and the ones that I recommend you work with are the ones that are going to look at your picture holistically. And we

tell, you know, the people that we recommend, we're like, "Hey, we're doing the Ramsay plan here." So, we're not going to hang on to a whole bunch of debt in order to invest. That's insane.

That's like borrowing money in order to invest, which you wouldn't do. And the the truth of the matter is you got the money to pay it off. So, why not just pay it off, be free of the payment, and you're completely debtree at that point?

>> Yeah, I'll be completely debtree at that point. >> And then that 37, is that your emergency fund plus some?

>> Uh, that be my entire income.

>> Your entire income?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm saying all my Yeah. emergency fund and like all my savings.

Sorry. >> Got it. Okay. So, I would keep three to six months of expenses saved, which is how much for you? Is that 20 grand, 15 grand, 30 grand? >> See, my rent my rent is like 800 bucks a month. Um, so probably uh my living

expensive about like two grand, about 1,500 bucks a month. So, it'll be somewhere like 7 to $8,000.

>> Okay. I would go minimum 10. I would leave 15 in there. And if you want to invest some of the rest, that's great. But I I'm a little nervous about your house hacking idea cuz I'm scared you fell for like a Tik Tok that they were like, "It's so great, man. They pay the mortgage for you." Especially when you when you got a lady in the mix. You like this lady? You're going to propose to her? >> Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get I'm going to propose and probably have a courthouse wait next year.

>> Okay. I would let her be a part of this decision because I don't want her stuck being a landlord and you got, you know, the the renter downstairs.

>> That's gonna make an awkward predicament for a newlywed. >> And so, I'm not a huge fan of the house hacking idea. Uh, I would rather see you guys have a primary home that you guys live in. And if you want to do investment properties later on with cash, you can do that.

But I would just go pump the brakes and go a little slower here and just follow through with the baby steps, which is let's have a,000 bucks saved. You have that. Let's knock out all of our consumer debt. You're about to do that today.

Let's get our emergency fund in place. You're about to do that today cuz you already have it.

>> Okay. >> Do you have a ring already?

>> Uh, no. I I No, I wanted to do some uh

engagement counseling first.

>> Engagement counseling? Like premarital counseling? >> Yeah, premarital counseling. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, this thing's headed toward engagement, but we're not quite there yet. >> Yeah. No, sir. >> Okay. Well, I I would earmark some of that money for a ring, a wedding. I know you want to do the courthouse thing, but let's just say she wants a little celebration. You have the money to do that. >> Gotcha. So, would you say my first step should be getting uh paying that student loan debt off first? >> Yeah, today.

>> All right. >> Have you ever been debtree in your adult life?

>> Uh, no. This would be my first time. I'm 26. >> Dude, imagine not having to think about making a debt payment.

Yeah, that would be nice. And that's a piece of mind is what I've been wanting. But after talking to those advisers, they were, you know, so I was like, dang. >> Well, because here's what they're saying, man, you could make more in the market. You should just do that and leave the loan sitting there. It's fine.

You'll get to it. And >> the the truth is when you are looking at it through that lens, what you're really saying is, I am willing to borrow $10,000 in student loan debt in order to invest in the market.

>> Gotcha. >> So, when you look at it that way, you go, "No, who would do that? That's insane. And so regardless of the interest rate, I'm telling you to pay it off. >> Got it. Regard Okay. All right. I'm going get on that today. >> If you regret it, you can go get more debt later, but I hope you don't, Trey, because you got a bright future ahead of you. There's a lady on the line. She wants to marry you. Hopefully, your future's too bright to stay in debt or go further into debt.

>> Yes, sir. Thank you so much.

>> Absolutely. And I'm going to gift you something, Trey. It's called Financial Peace University. I think it's some of the best premarital counseling out there when it comes to finances. Cuz if you guys get aligned with your values, your goals, the principles, you both agree, hey, the kind of people we want to be is the people who don't owe people money.

That's really going to set you guys up for success. We want to have money in the bank, not owe people money, build wealth for the future. And that's honestly one of the big reasons people get divorced is money fights and money problems. And you're about to avoid that.

And it's I think it's the most attractive thing a man can be is debtree with money in the bank. You know, cuz even if you got a five in the face, if you got 10K in the bank, it goes a long way, my man. Ask me how I know.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, I've got about 4,000 messages

about the 50-year mortgage that was announced via Truth Social from President Trump. So, I thought I guess we need to talk about Let's talk about the 50-year elephant [music] in the room, shall we? So, over the weekend, here's the actual truth of what happened. President Trump shared a photo that's now making headlines and it showed FDR, the president who helped create the 30-year mortgage after World War II, next to Trump, and it said great presidents at the as the headline.

And uh his modern version was the 50-year mortgage under Trump's face. And the idea reportedly came from a meeting at Mara Lago where Bill Py, who's now the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, presented the proposal on a poster board. So he made a little arts and crafts. He shows it to the president.

He liked it enough to post it on Truth Social. And now the FHFA says they're quote working on it. That's all it takes, guys. You bring him a poster board with a nice picture.

He goes, "Let's do that. That sounds fun." And what am I having for dessert at Mara Lago? So the stated goal here is to make housing more affordable. In quotes, that's not what this does.

The 50-year mortgage does not make homes cheaper. In fact, it makes the housing crisis into a dumpster fire. And let's walk through the reasons why this is. Number one, the math doesn't work here.

Let's look at the numbers that have been thrown out there.

home as the example. A 30-year mortgage at 6.25% about 2,700 a month. Total

interest paid over those 30 years, $547,000.

Not great, remember on a $450,000 home.

But now, let's look at a 50-year mortgage. And to keep it apples to apples, I'll even give you the same exact interest rate at 6.25, 25, which is not going to happen because this is a much riskier loan. So, banks are going to charge more for it. But let's just say it's the same interest rate. Well, your payment now becomes $2450 a month.

So, you're saving 300 bucks at best with

this loan. Total interest, this is the kicker, over a million in interest alone on a $450,000

house. Do you understand how insane that is? Now, in reality, lenders would

charge that higher rate on a 50-year because it's riskier, at least 1% more, which means the savings aren't even going to be there in your monthly payment, and the interest is going to be even more than that million. So, that uh 7.25%, let's keep it there. That's 2,600 bucks versus 2,700 bucks. So, whoop-dedoo, you saved a h 100red bucks a month, all to pay $1.18 million in

interest for that home. That is insane.

That is not affordability. It's a financial illusion that's going to keep people broke until they die because we know the average first-time home buyer is now 40 years old. So, let's walk this out. You're going to die statistically

before you pay off your mortgage. So, I guess generational wealth is going to turn into generational debt. That's what you're doing if you take this on. Reason number two, you are not building equity.

You're just renting from the bank instead of your landlord. So, here's what really happens under the hood. You see, mortgages are front-loaded with interest. So, when you look at your amortization schedule, that's the nerdy sheet that shows you how much is going to principal versus interest.

At first, every single dollar, almost every dollar is going to the bank, not toward your house. So, let's share some examples here. On a 15-year mortgage, you start paying more principle than interest around year eight. That's when you sort of tip the scales.

On a 30-year, takes about 12 years. On a 50-year mortgage, it takes almost 40 years before you're paying more of your payment to the principal than to interest.

the average homeowner keeps their home for about 11 years and they're moving on. By 11 years in, you've paid that

$450,000 mortgage down to about $380,000.

Do you not see how insane that is? You have built almost no equity in almost a decade by taking on this kind of loan.

So that's problem number two. Number problem number three, it makes the housing crisis worse, not better. You see, stretching debt doesn't make homes more affordable. It's just going to make home prices go up. And we see this with the car market, right? We're introducing seven-year car loans. Well, what happens? Everyone just goes, "Cool.

We'll just keep raising the prices." College tuition. We saw something very similar happened because they realized people would just take on a bunch of debt and the government was going to back it. That's what's going to happen with these mortgages. So when buyers can afford a slightly higher payment, builders and sellers are going to respond by raising prices because now we have more demand. It's a classic supply and demand curve here. So that's problem

number three. Problem number four, it's going to add massive risk for homeowners. Here's why. Borrowers would pay roughly 400 to 500 grand more in interest on that medium priced home if it's stretched out from 30 to 50 years.

And when it takes three to four decades just to pay down half of your principal, even a small decline in housing values could wipe out all of your equity. That is frightening. And that's not including just closing costs and realtor fees that would eat into what you would have built up in equity. That's frightening.

So, this is a debt treadmill where you never catch up. If you move to the next home a decade later, you're just going to make a lateral move. You've built almost no equity. Number five, it is a legal and financial nightmare.

To make this work, regulators would have to rewrite rules and convince investors to buy these ultra long loans.

They want money like sooner rather than later. So what they're going to do to compensate is higher rates, more bakedin

fees because it's already a fragile system as it is. So this is a financial time bomb. Which brings us to problem number six. This doesn't benefit the American people at all. It only benefits banks, builders, and Wall Street. Here's why. Let's be clear about who wins here.

Banks get 20 extra years of guaranteed interest, which means if they actually play this out, they're going to get double what they would have than that 30-year mortgage. Then you've got builders. Builders get to sell higher priced homes because monthly payments look more affordable. And then you've got investors who get 50 years of cash flow from your paycheck on Wall Street.

So the only loser in this setup is you, the homeowner. And there's been a lot of people, a lot of backlash toward this, even from the Republican party. Uh Marjgery Taylor Green even said that it rewards the banks, mortgage lenders, and homebuilders while people pay far more in interest over time and die before they ever pay off their home. This is coming from a staunch Republican. So this is a system designed to keep you in debt for life. Now, the proponents of

this, and this is what I've seen on social media when I posted about it, when everyone posts about it, well, people would just refinance. Well, people would just pay extra and so it's no big deal. Listen, I don't know if you've met humans, but we are emotional creatures. And the stats show that a very very small percentage of people's about 7% or 9% systematically actually

pay extra on their mortgage. So left to their own devices, humans are just going to do the bare minimum. They're going to just make the minimum payment. And by the way, people who are going to take on a 50-year mortgage probably are going to do it with very little down and very little margin in their budget. This is a desperate move that's targeted at broke people. So, if you do it the Ramsay way,

you're going to go for a 15-year, which means you're going to pay a fraction of that interest, likely about little over six figures, 160 grand in interest instead of a million in interest. Oh, and by the way, you're debtree in 15 years. So, even if you took on that home at 40, you're debtree by 55 instead of

90 years old, maybe making your last payment from the old folks home if you're lucky, if the Lord willing and the creek don't rise. And this is what I love. The old French word mortgage

literally means death pledge. And

America has finally uh we've taken this on and we're saying, you know what? Make it a death pledge literally, please.

Because for 50 years, I'm deciding, I'm going to be a slave to the lender.

Proverbs says that. Proverbs 22:7. The borrower to slave to the lender. The rich rule over the poor. So, is this the fix for housing? No. Do I believe that

there could be a better economic climate and economy that could be more beneficial to the American people? Absolutely. We could build more homes to increase supply. We can try to stop corporations and hedge funds from buying up all the single family homes.

We could maybe let homeowners transfer their low mortgage interest rate when they move, which would unlock some inventory because right now people are sitting with golden handcuffs. We could even raise the capital gains exclusion so that long-term owners can sell without losing equity to taxes. That would be a cool solution. But here's the thing.

I have very little faith in any policy taking place that's going to make it easier for the American people to buy a home. In fact, as we've seen, it's only going to become harder. So, what's my take on this? Don't wait on a policy to fix your life, to allow you to become a homeowner.

Bet on yourself instead of the government, instead of on a a housing market. That's a moving goalpost. So, what's the real way?

get out of debt, you build up an emergency fund, and you get a down payment saved up, and that might go slow. It might be 40 years old before you can take on that home. But when you do it the Ramsay way, and it's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, you're not going to be in alert. You're not going to be paying off that mortgage until you're in the old folks home.

You're going to be debtree, owning that home outright instead of it owning you, which is exactly what this 50-year loan is designed to do. And by the way, what did Trump think about it? He said, "It's not that big of a deal. You don't pay our bills, Mr. President. It is a big deal to lock someone in a death pledge for the rest of their life." So, to that, I say no thank you, Mr. President.

I will hard pass on a 50-year loan.

[music] Our

[music] scripture of the day, 1 Peter 3:15. But

in your hearts, rever Christ [music] as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect.

[music] Theodore Roosevelt said, "There is only one quality worse than hardness of heart, and that is softness of head."

That'll preach. That's a timeless one right there. Well, guys, the allnew Every Dollar is here. You've heard us mention it on the show as we help people try to find that margin to pay off debt.

And now, it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. The average person finds thousands in margin in just the first 15 minutes of using it. So, start Every Dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Sheila is in Cincinnati up next. What's going on, Sheila?

>> Hi. I was calling to find out some information um suggestions about investing a little

bit of money for some income.

>> Okay.

>> Um so, uh my husband and I followed the

Dave Ramsey plan. um and um for for

years and um we we were in a good situation and looking forward to retirement um

tracking a couple 30 years down the road

and um he unexpectedly passed away in

July. >> Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. So, I'm

trying to figure out suddenly all income

stopped. Um, his uh disability stopped. His social security stopped. I won't see that again for another four years.

>> Wow. Wow. So, it's 150,000 insurance

policy, life insurance policy,

and I'm trying to figure out what's the best thing to do with that to generate a

little bit of income to make up for the

loss of income. >> Yeah. What was he making?

>> He just It varied from year to year. Um,

but this year he was he well last year

cuz he didn't work at all this year, but last year he was on track to probably break 100,000.

>> Okay. What are your monthly expenses right now? Let's just talk about the the right next thing to do, which is cover your four walls, your food, your utilities, your housing, and transportation. So, what does all that cost you?

>> 800. We're debtree. We don't have any car payment or house payment or anything. So >> amazing. >> Um 800 just pays the bills and buys the

food. >> That puts food on the table, keeps the lights on. Does that pay insurance bills as well?

>> Um yeah. Uh life insurance and um property taxes.

>> Okay. So let's call it a bucks.

>> Insurance, I'm sorry. Car insurance, house insurance. >> Okay. But a,000 bucks all in gets your expenses covered for the month.

>> Yeah. So, we're really looking at we need 12 grand a year right now just to survive.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Okay. >> Well, I'll share some math with you and we can try to solve this uh problem together. So, if you just parked that $150,000 in a high yield savings account, you would make about $5 or $6,000 a year.

>> The bank right now told me to put it in a money market, so that's just where it is right now. >> That's probably a similar rate. I would check on the rate, but right now you should be at about 3 and a half 4% on these savings account rates, especially high yield money market. So check the rate there.

That's a good starting point, but you might need to invest this money if you want to make it last for a long time, >> right? >> Because as you start to >> I don't understand. >> Yeah. As you start to withdraw the money, it's going to deplete it.

And so what is the the next income point that you're going to hit?

Um there will be a pension that will

start a little bit. Um >> okay. What's that amount?

>> Should start sometime this month um should be about 2,000.

>> Amazing. So this month you will have $2,000 coming in.

>> Right. >> Great. >> So that leaves me from what we had calculated before he was going to retire and what we looked to think that we would need like 4,000 a month to live on after retirement. Okay. And >> that's what he was working towards. >> So 4,000 was the goal for both of you to have a comfortable retirement.

>> Right. Okay. >> So now I'm about 2,000 short on that.

>> Yes. But that was for both of you in this, you know, kind of cushy retirement dream.

>> Right. >> So we'll need to sort of have a new picture of what the future looks like for Sheila in this this chapter as you

are still grieving. I mean, it's only been a few months, so I can't imagine the fog that you're in right now. But as that fog starts to clear and as you figure out the right next steps, you're going to have to figure out what those expenses really look like for you to not just survive, but also to enjoy life because you're you're still young. You got a lot of life ahead of you. How old are you?

>> 56. >> Okay. And then when will Social Security kick in?

>> When I'm 60, which would be four years.

And that's taking a cut. It doesn't fully come in until I'm 67.

>> Sure. Yeah. And you can delay that a little bit. Maybe you split the difference and take it at 62. You know, take it when you need it, but if you don't need it, you can let it ride a little bit longer. And then the other piece of this, this 150,000, you could invest it. And if you invest it on average, you could see anywhere from 9 10 11 even 12% return on average over a long period of time over the next 20 or 30 years.

So that's what I need to know is where and how does one invest money to be able

to pull off of it >> for a living? >> Well, you're what you want to focus on are mutual funds and index funds. These are basically giant groups of stocks and companies. So instead of putting all of your eggs in one basket, it's in a basket that has 200 different companies that are all weighted. >> And so that's what I would recommend.

And if you want help with that, I would connect with a Smart Ver Pro. You can do that at ramseyolutions.com.

click on Smart Investor Pro and they'll guide you through this process because we always tell people only invest in things you understand and you stay in the driver's seat when it comes to your investments. So, you're not going to relinquish control. You're going to stay in control and actually learn, okay, here's what my money is doing. Here's where it's going.

Here's what the return is. And if you do that, this 150 grand could give you about 10 or 15 grand a year.

It could give you an extra, let's say, thousand bucks a month on average,

>> okay? >> On top of your two from the pension.

Now, now we're working with $3,000 and our expenses are one. Could you live a decent life in retirement off of that?

>> I I don't know.

>> Are you Are you working full-time currently?

>> No. >> Are you able to work?

>> Maybe down the road.

>> Okay. As you enter the new year, I would also look at what opportunities you have to do some meaningful work. Number one, because it will give you some purpose in this next season and allow you to continue this legacy. And number two, because truthfully, the money just isn't there. We need to create some income to fund the gap right now to invest, to put aside. Do you have anything in savings outside of the 150?

Um, yeah, we that's what I've been

living off of the past three months. Um,

>> how much is in there now? >> So, um, outside of the money market, um, about 67,000 now.

>> Okay. So, that's quickly getting depleted and I would love for you to keep that as an emergency fund to cover you when life inevitably happens. Now, obviously, you've been in a state of grief, and so I have no shame, uh, no

guilt for you using this money to fund your life right now as you navigate this process, but I would love for you to keep that emergency fund set aside for those emergencies down the line. And that means maybe we get to work, we invest this money, we get that pension coming in, and then we get on a budget.

Have you created a budget on your own before?

>> Um, yes, I'm following the budget.

>> Okay. Do you have every dollar?

>> Yeah. >> Great. I'm going to cover it for the next year for you. So, hang on the line and Christian will pick up. We'll make sure to gift that to you because it'll connect to your bank account and make it really easy to track your transactions plus a lot of other cool features to help you create margin. And you might see that, hey, this gave me four ideas I can do to create an extra $300 of margin. And in your world, that could be life-changing.

>> Okay. Are you getting any counseling to help you heal and and move through this?

>> Um, I I a little bit. >> Do you have anybody in your in your corner community around you?

>> Yes, we do. >> Okay, I do. >> Good. Well, Sheila, I'm so sorry. This is not the picture anybody has as they head into their retirement phase. I'm so sorry for your loss, but I hope the numbers encourage you that you can not only survive, but I hope that soon you can thrive in this next chapter. That puts this hour of the Ramy Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 28. Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom | September 17, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Hit on YouTube and the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today, number one best-selling author. And uh we're happy to have the leadership team from Fair Winds Credit Union here with us today at Ramsey Headquarters. Welcome you guys.

If you haven't heard, Fairwinds is our new studio sponsor. We've had a relationship with them for a little over a year and they've done a lot of wonderful things for you folks out there that have contacted them and they've even developed products just for you to get help. And as you guys know, I'm not a fan of actually I detest large banks.

Uh so stuff like Bank of America, why would you do business with them if you don't have brain damage? So, or people like Fifth, Third, H, and I can go on from there and just name off all of my anti- friends, but I won't. So, instead, we tell folks to go to small town local banks and to credit unions, and we always have for 30 some odd years on this show. And because you get treated like a human being there, not a number, and you actually find competent people there who care. That's

an unusual thing, too, in the banking world. And so, uh, that's why we're so excited to have Fairwinds on as our studio sponsor and a partner for Ramsay.

And they are doing some really cool stuff. You need to check them out. Uh, they've got a, uh, they created the smart bundle for you Ramsey fans out there. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, which will help you supercharge that emergency fund, right?

Actually start making some money on that thing. Don't keep it under your bed in a shoe box, boys and girls. And the Ramsay debit card just came out, brand new. I saw the first real one last night of the prototype.

>> I got to see it and it's actually a real one. It says right on the front of the debit card, "Dad is normal.

>> That's >> Now, that's a way to pay for some stuff right there. >> That'll catch some attention from the cashier at checkout. >> Well, I mean, when you go to Target, like everybody in there that's ever worked there for more than 10 minutes is trained to try to sell you one of their Target credit cards. And you just have to go, "Uh, no. Look right here.

>> Read this. >> Read read my card. Read my lips." Right.

and said, "No." Uh-uh. Right here. Debt is normal. Be weird.

No, I don't I don't do your Target card, baby. So, there you go. It's a daily reminder. You're doing money differently.

And the Ramsey debit card is officially launching uh September the 17th. So, we're there, baby. You can get it. Check it out.

So, hey, we're so excited about this uh whole fair winds thing.

right next to our name, how much trouble we went to to make sure they're good people and that they're going to treat you guys right and not just run you up a bunch of debt or something. They are great folks and we're really really excited about this. So check out the smart bundle. It's got the debit card.

It's got the no fee checking and a high yield savings account at fairwinds.org/ramsey.

Madison is with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Hey Madison, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, I have some questions for you.

Me and my husband are not seeing eye to eye on our car debt and I need your input. >> Okay. >> Um, we just had a baby, our second baby three months ago and my husband pays all

the bills and I just paid the car payment. Well, I'm sick of paying this car payment. We owe about 12,000 on it.

We've had it for four years. And I'm just like, hey, let's go get, you know, a cheap cheaper car. But he's all about reliability. He's like, the older cars aren't as reliable. And so I'm like, is

it smart to go get like a $7,000 car, pay cash for it, or do we, you know,

keep making this car payment? I mean, I only make like 600 a month working part-time and being a stay-at-home mom.

Um, so our car payment is 3.65 a month and I'm like that is just over my, you know, that's all my money basically. So, >> how long have you guys been living like roommates? Like the splitting up bills and Venmoing each other.

>> Uh, h, ever since ever since we got the

car, I mean, he's always provided like he's always paid everything. Um, >> no, darling. >> The car. >> No, darling. Answer George's question.

>> Okay, >> this is a pattern. There's other things going on here. This isn't just about the car payment, but you're making 600 bucks a month and he's like, "Well, that's your car. You handle the payment. I'm not touching that." >> Hand him one of those kids and say, "That's your baby. I ain't touching that one." >> O, okay. >> Yeah, this is ridiculous. Okay, stop.

It's ridiculous. The way y'all are doing this is what's causing the problem.

>> Okay. Okay. >> You need to combine your finances.

>> All of your income is our income. And when you went down the aisle, dun dun dun, the preacher said, "And now you are one." He didn't say, "And now you're a joint venture, and I sure hope you can pay your car payment with your part-time job." The preacher didn't say that.

>> Okay. No, he didn't. >> Yeah. And so you guys need to combine your lives because you have combined your bed and your children and everything else.

And so this idea that you have to argue over who paid for the mustard in the refrigerator is asinine for a married couple. you guys need to sit down together, develop a game plan, work together on the whole thing, and then yes, you'll probably need to sell this stupid car. I don't disagree.

>> Okay, so Dave, we also have a savings and we have like 10,000 in the savings account. And he's like, "What? What if we pay the car off? I mean, we still owe 2,000.

If you want to do that and keep the car, that's fine. We decide that together.

And then we have a monthly budget on

every dollar and we are spending our

money on our goals, dreams, and fears.

>> Okay. >> You really are you going to do that? You really have to do that, hun?

>> I know. I want to do it. I um I want to do it. But thinking about the demand is draining. >> No, just demand it. Demand it.

>> Okay. >> You have to do this because the people

who do it have a higher quality marriage relationship and the people that do it have a higher probability of becoming millionaires. We've got data that backs us up. Okay? You guys are not pulling together. You're pulling at each other.

And when you start pulling together instead of at each other, you make more progress both relationally and everything else.

When you can agree on your spending, you have communicated at a deeper level of intimacy. When you can agree on your spending, you have agreed on your future. You've agreed on your fears.

You've agreed on a stupid car. We can have an argument about reliability versus the $10,000 savings account. We can take all of those things and mix them in together. And you're missing out on all of that because you're you're treating this like you're married to your college roommate or something. And uh No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please. Hey, try it my way and

push through the awkwardness for 90 days. Do what George is suggesting and Dave is suggesting.

You'll never go back. But if I'm completely wrong, you can go back and then you'll see a marriage counselor, which is what you'll need because you can't combine your lives and that's what you'll be down to. But please try it.

Yeah. Right now I can tell they have separate accounts and he's going, "Well, this is my money. This is your money. I'll cover this.

You cover that and hopefully everything will work out." Well, she's going to be in debt and resentful for the next 5 years and who knows what he's doing with his extra money. Nobody has awareness or transparency in this marriage. There's no trust here. >> Yeah.

I don't I don't >> Just scorekeeping. Well, the biggest thing is there's just a tremendous amount of waste in this disorganization and chaos. >> Yeah, it's like one of those finger traps. They're pulling away and they're just stuck where they are.

You got to be moving in the same direction. That's the key. >> I haven't thought of those things in years. >> I'm always thinking about those fingers.

>> Find that metaphor.

>> Chuck-E-Cheese near you. I think >> Chucky coming from a Chuck-E-Cheese near you.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

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[Applause] Britney's in Missouri. Hi Britney. How are you? >> Hi. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so my question is my boyfriend and I have been together for a year and a half. Um, we've talked about finances

upside down and sideways. Um, but from my past experience, um, a lot of relationships say they're on the same page with finances and then once they get married, one of them go and end up being a bigger spender than they originally led on to be. >> So, wait, your past experience, you've been married before? >> I have been. Yes. >> And that's what happened before.

>> Oh, yes. >> So, you married a man without integrity?

>> Yes. >> And it probably that lack of integrity bled into other areas which is actually why you got the divorce, right?

Yes, absolutely.

>> Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

>> Um, so I guess my question is I I trust

my boyfriend, but how do I like I don't

know. I guess I'm terrified that we will get married and then it won't be everything we talked about.

>> But I know it's just my past experiences that are >> Yeah. >> making talked about it a minute ago in a sense.

And uh uh for me looking at it um I I

think it's wisdom to ask the question

because you got burned before. Right.

>> Right. >> And uh but there's not the only way to guard against it is to marry a guy of integrity.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And I didn't say he was Jesus and I didn't say he was perfect. I just said he had integrity.

>> Meaning meaning he is who he is. Who he is who he is. I mean, it's kind of like saying, "Okay, how do I ensure that my boyfriend won't call his old girlfriend after he's my husband?" >> Uh, because he's a person of integrity and I would kill him and you know, so >> both and, >> you know, but I mean, you can't you can't be sure of that except as sure as you are of the man's

character.

>> Yes. And so you need to date long enough that you are sure of his character. And you probably sit down and talk to your counselor, your pastor about your wounds, which are valid wounds, and go,

"Okay, I don't want to I don't want to superimpose the other jerk on the new guy. That's not fair. But I also want to be wise and not let that happen again." So, how do I balance those two things?

And you know, and and for me, I'm I'm just going to be talking to the your new boyfriend a lot about that if I'm you.

>> Okay. We talk about it like every day.

>> Yeah. He's probably he's probably sick of it. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, is he in debt now?

>> He is. Not a lot. He's got probably 20 to $30,000 in debt. Um I have none, but I also make no money to be in debt. So,

>> Okay. And is he actively trying to get out? He is aggressive. He still spins.

No. >> Um he still spins but he is working towards it. I know he's paid off probably 20 to 30,000 in the past year.

>> Okay. So you think in another year he could be completely debtree?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> He could be debtree in the next 6 months if he wanted to be. >> Okay. So independent of you whether you

were there or not he seems to be trending in a debt-free direction. His behavior is there. He's not run. He's not just giving it mouth service. He's actually doing it. >> Yes. So, I guess my next question is, is it stupid to wait until he's debtree for us to make the next step of getting engaged? I know you always say to just put everything together and pay off the debt together. >> No, I would not. I would not base my engagement on debtree. I would base my engagement on his pattern of behavior.

>> Okay? If he's going in the right direction and you're comfortable with his character and this is who you want to spend your life with, then spend your life with him. >> I'm not, you know, if you have to put out a uh >> ultimatum, >> a uh I don't know. In order to earn my my hand, you will have that. That's a little much. Yeah. I'm not doing >> earned it. >> How long have you guys been together?

>> A year and a half. >> A year and a half. >> Okay. So, this is still progressing toward an engagement. Maybe in the next year. >> Yeah. I I we don't tell people to wait to get married or have babies based on their debt. We do tell them to wait on those things based on how they're treating their debt. >> Are you being a freaking adult and addressing the issue or are you still being a baby child?

>> Right.

Responsible. He's definitely addressing it. >> Yeah, he's doing it. He everything you've described about the guy is solid u versus the last guy. And so, right, but I I you know, it's fair to say you got burned and so I've got this this spot and man, you just really I I'm going to be super sensitive about this subject because I got burned before and so dude, you're going to have to be super diligent to stay on the path.

>> I'd share your your fears and feelings with him and say, "Listen, this has happened in the past. I don't want to project this on to you, but I want you to know this is how I'm feeling." And if I'm him now, I'm going to be real sensitive and probably more aggressive to getting out of debt so that you feel like, man, he's he's going to provide.

He's not going to be making dumb financial decisions that move us backward. >> Yeah, Britney, I'll give you an example, okay? We went broke. We had a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread. My wife was terrorized

by our water being cut off, our lights being cut off, and me filing bankruptcy.

She was in a constant state of fear.

That was 30 plus years ago.

I still as a loving husband to this day

need to be aware that there is a wound

when it comes to security around the

issue of money with Sharon Ramsay. She's not a walking wounded warrior. That's not and the wound has healed progressively over the 30 years. and my behaviors for 30 years have been different than the get-richquick that went broke. Okay? So, I've earned

the right of trust, but I as an act of

love towards her need to remember that if I even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund is kept, where the little file, you know, so we can get to the emergency, if I even near walk near the drawer, like I'm going to use that for something else, it puts her in a way different state of mind. And I need to keep that in mind in how I interact with her. this guy needs to keep in mind that

you got burned before and you've got this sensitive place and it'll be less sensitive as time goes along. But uh but

you just need to be aware of each other's uh wounded spots and go why

would we go there? Yeah. >> And so I'm just real aware Sharon needs to be reminded that we're okay.

>> And you earn it every day by continuing that same pattern of integrity. And the crazy part is it takes a long time to build a trust and you can destroy it in a second. >> Yeah. But even then, it's not unfair to

me to even though I've rebuilt the trust

and a pattern's been for 30 plus years, right? It's not unfair to ask me to be

aware that she has that sensitive spot, right? As a matter of fact, that's just how you live together if you're married.

And so that's fair. It's fair, Britney, for him to be aware of this. It's not an invalid feeling, not an invalid uh

concern. And there's tactical things you can do once you're married, like combining your bank accounts so you both have transparency into what's going on financially, doing that budget together, freezing your credit so that no one can go just take out a loan willy-nilly. And if he goes and takes out debt behind your back, well, clearly there's a very clear violation of trust here. And so that's your biggest fear.

And I think there's things we can do before then. >> And I guess my point is in this case, were he to do that knowing that she has this sensitive spot, this is more than just a violation of trust.

>> Yeah. >> You're you're like you're you're >> it's game over. >> You're shooting you're shooting the dead. I mean you're shooting the cow.

It's over, man. It's just dumb. So you going you know caught knowing that she's got that spot. So it's quite the opposite way to approach it.

So it's a good question, Britney. Thank you for bringing it up. And it's a pretty standard thing if you have been down the, you know, you're going into a second marriage relationship. uh if the first one had some kind of money problems, which by the way, money problems, money fights, number one cause of divorce in North America.

So if you went through a divorce, h high probability that there's a money issue in there. >> Yeah. >> And then you take that to the next relationship and how do I deal with that and not have that happen again?

It's for, you know, out of the 40 million people out there listening, it's probably a couple more just like her. A lot of people have that baggage from previous relationships, whether it's family or a loved one, a marriage, and it takes a long time to heal from that and to trust again. Yep. And at any moment, you're like, you're going, my body is saying, this could be broken. This could be broken. Alert, alert. And so, it takes time, like you said, to get away from that and to heal from that.

And hopefully over time, you guys build the right habits, you do the things we teach, combine bank accounts, get on a budget, and that'll sort of disappear into the back of your mind. >> Yeah. When there's no money being spent that you're not aware of and have agreed to, that makes trust really easy. And that's called a budget. That's called doing your every dollar budget together as a couple when you're married.

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Shane is in Michigan. Hey Shane, how are you? >> Hi. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so my wife and I were in a serious uh accident and we both lost our left leg and >> and things kind of just well it goes very fast once that happened. So, we're we went we're in the hospital, we got out and now we're starting to do our recovery. Um, and then we got lawyers involved, of course. Um, luckily I hit all the right boxes on my insurance, so my medical for our injuries are going to be covered for the rest of our lives.

Um, but the lawyers, I didn't know they

were so fast. Like, they closed and they said, "Hey, in 45 days, you're going to get a settlement um of roughly $350,000." And I'm, you know, we're factory workers. We try to do the best we can, but you know, we're not prepared for,

you know, a quarter of a million dollars. So, my question is, uh, you

know, I asked friends and stuff, but what do I do from here to set myself up

for success? Not right now, even just in

the future, because we are going to have hurdles and we are going to have challenges. Um, so that's that's my

question is uh how do I not blow this

big wad of money and uh set set us up

for a good future?

>> Yeah, man. You guys have been through hell. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah. >> How long ago was the accident?

>> Uh we're not even 3 months through. Um we're both in rehab and doing pretty good. And uh >> we both lost a leg.

>> I'm afraid we did. Yeah, we were going through a green light and somebody decided to uh turn left and um we were

doing 55 and uh it it took both of our

legs. So, >> you're on a motorcycle?

>> On a motorcycle? Yes, sir.

>> All right. >> Yeah. And we we were through we're getting recovered and all that recovery is covered. So, >> let me ask you this. The first thing that comes to mind is is that it doesn't sound like you're getting enough.

>> Well, that's the thing. He was an underinsured motorist. So, we got $50,000 each from his. Um, kind of an

insult to losing a leg, but um I luckily

I I checked the full PIP, so all of our

medical stuff is covered from my insurance, my car insurance. Um, and

then it maxed out at 250,000 each, and then the lawyers take their chunk and

we're left with, you know, what's left.

you your lawyer is getting a chunk of your insurance.

>> Um yeah, we got a lawyer to make sure we got everything right and they take 30%.

>> Of whatever insurance >> and basically they got nothing for you.

I mean they got his underinsured motors which is basic stuff and they got yours that you already coverage you already had. There was no big negotiation here.

They just caused the insurance company to write a check they should have written anyway.

>> This is not a good deal for you. Okay, you're paying way too much in attorney's fees for them to do something that that you probably could have done on your own. This is not this is not an injury lawsuit here. This is just your insurance paying its claims.

>> It was a it was an insult when we got it because I mean we're >> Well, it's not an insult. It's all they had. The guy's broke. He's not gonna You can't get blood out of a rock. But yeah, >> but um it wasn't it wasn't like a personal insult, but it's it's a sad small amount. Okay. Well, at least I know how we got there. Now, back to your question. Uh oh, man. Um

Okay. 350 um

mathematically is not enough for you guys to not work the rest of your lives.

>> Correct. >> So, you're I mean, let's just pretend you invested it at 10%. for easy numbers. That's $35,000 a year. You're not, you know, that's not going to work out. >> Yeah, we we made about 70 when we were working and you get 80% pay for like 3

years. So, >> okay. So, that's going to be helpful while you >> uh rehab and retool for a new career.

>> We also um just before that, we need a new roof, which we couldn't really afford. So, we refinanced. We put all of our debt into the house. I know I know how you feel about that, but um I was out of options. The the house would have deteriorated too much. So um we owe $150,000 and we have no other debt but

utilities. So >> well then what I would do is to try to

during the time you're getting your 80% pay to create a career for each of you where the net is is that you actually end up with your new careers making more than you used to make. Okay, that's what we were kind of thinking too. >> If you get if you get there, then you don't have need of this money for

survival, >> right? >> Then we can use it in the ways that you would rather use it, which would be paying off the house and investing it.

>> Investing. >> That was my question, too. Like, >> but I'm not doing that until you got an income, dude.

>> Okay. All right. That's what I was wondering. >> Yeah. So, you've got what what are y'all going to do? Do you have or you've already thought about this? What do you think you're going to do?

>> I'm not sure. Uh, you know, when I So, the the bummer, too, was that um my friend had a trash truck driving job for me, which would have been a substantial step up, and they match like double digit for your retirement, which we have none. Um, and uh they would it would

have been better pay. I got my permit and then two weeks I was going to, you know, start the classes and uh I had

that job lined up and then we got hit and that kind of I don't know once I get the prosthetic and I get better with it maybe I could do something like that but we're still talking manual labor with a leg that's you know >> I I don't have any idea. I don't know how but wow that's that's the stuff you're facing. So, you've got to solve for income. And when you solve for

income, then that frees up the money and then you can decide what to do with it. And it's pretty basic because you don't have >> a lot of options. There's I mean, you know, you pay off the house and I would sit down with a smart investor pro and get this money invested and pretend like I don't have it. In other words, I don't have a house payment anymore.

I don't have any debt anymore.

>> So, you would uh pay off the house and then with the rest of the money investing and get somebody to help me because my friend was like money market account and I was like >> no your don't listen to your broke friends about money. Honey, >> I know. I know. Hey, I know.

I I right away I was like I don't know. I need somebody I think professional to >> No, just go go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvetor pro and they can help him. Yeah. And then make sure you get an emergency fund before you invest that money.

Set aside 6 months of expenses to cover you guys in case of emergencies before you use the rest of that money. >> But that'll set you up. You get that foundation right and get the income going. You've got a great quality of life.

The money will turn into a lot of money over time if it's invested and you keep your hands off of it because you've created a sustainable income with your new careers. >> Yeah. So, hey, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

normal looks like. What a man, wild, horrible thing to go through.

55 miles an hour >> with no protection there. Yeah.

>> On that motorcycle. >> Yeah. That's just wow, >> man. >> Crazy. >> But here's the the news on the compound growth. Like you mentioned, you leave 150 grand sitting there for a couple decades. It turns into a couple million if you add nothing to it. And so that's the good news is that this could add a nice cushion to their nest egg and who knows what the rest of their life looks like with expenses and medical and how this affects other areas of their life.

>> Exactly. Well, the great news he's got 80% pay. That's pretty good workers comp right there, man. Or whatever it was. He's got disability. I guess disability income is probably what it is. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Yeah. He had checked the boxes on the insurance.

Lawyer ought to be ashamed of himself taking a fee on that.

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Katie is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi Katie, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm great. long time listener, first

time caller. I'm so excited.

>> Well, thank you. How can we help today?

>> Yes. Hi. Um, I'm calling because I have

a mother-in-law who has been scammed out

of probably somewhere between $150 to

$200,000.

Um, she lives a quarter mile from our

house in a patio home which she

purchased from the sale of her home in

North Carolina. That patio home is in my

husband and I's name and we're wondering

if she should move in with us.

>> Why would she do that?

Well, she no longer can pay for the

mortgage out of what she is currently getting.

>> Oh, so she didn't purchase. She didn't pay for the home when she bought it. She took out a mortgage when she bought it.

>> She took out a mortgage. The mortgage is in our name, my husband and I.

>> So, she didn't have enough money from the sale in North Carolina to buy the house.

>> No. Well, she she did. She she stockpiled the rest of it in a savings account and then uh when she had an

online scammer um tell her that he was

going to come to the United States and marry her not once but in the romance

scam.

>> Yes, the romance scam. That's exactly right. And so obviously, you know, my heart bleeds for her because she's lonely. He lost her husband probably 11

years ago. And and my husband and I when

we first got married, he said, "FYI, when my dad dies, my mom's moving in with us." And I said, "That's great. I love your mom. Plus, she gives me diamonds." >> Okay. So, um, if you sell the patio home and she moves in with you, then you've gotten your wish. What's the question?

>> Yes. Yes. to the patio home. It was

probably $250 some odd thousand dollars.

However, my husband and my mother-in-law don't want that to happen. Um, we are supporting my mother-in-law with um not

a lot, basically $50 to $100 a month to

stay in her patio home, but we can't

afford that either. My husband and I are both horse trainers. Um, we got into a little bit of tax trouble after the sale of a horse a couple of years ago. Now we have a great accountant on board and um, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. We are pro could probably be

debtree. What is your household home?

>> Um, we are averaging I'm using the Dave Ramsey app which I love. We're averaging about uh $7,200

a month. You can afford $100.

>> Pardon me? >> You can afford $100.

>> You said you're using a giving her $100 a month to stay afloat >> and I can't afford that. That's not true. You can't afford it. You have $7,200. $100 is not breaking you.

>> I It's not breaking us, but we are um

like by the end of every month.

>> Yeah. You have other issues then. And it's not your mother-in-law.

>> You have $7,100 worth of other issues.

>> Yes. Yes, we do. We do.

>> And the the other part is if mother-in-law can't pay the mortgage, you're getting foreclosed on because it's in your name.

>> Yeah. So, um >> that that is also correct.

>> Yeah. And and she's paying that with her social security. I assume >> she is paying that with her social security. and then on top of it barely has enough to pay for the medication that she needs.

>> Right. >> So, this is unsustainable for her to stay in this house. >> Yeah. Well, at 100 bucks a month, it's sustainable is what she's saying.

>> Yeah. They're they're giving her $100 a month. That's making her budget balance and that's what her husband and the mother-in-law want to do. And she wants to sell the sell the house and have her move in for hundred bucks.

No. I You don't have a math case to make this case. If you guys as a family want to do this to take care of her and everyone involved thinks it's a great idea, it's not a problem for me. Sell the patio home and put the money in an investment and you'll be fine uh from the equity in that thing.

a month is not sustainable when you make 7,200 is not true. There's other things going on in your budget that may not be sustainable. So if that's what they want to do, you can afford it. I just I

uh >> wouldn't be my first >> Well, I don't know. I mean, I if you want to if she wants to live there, doesn't want to live there, I don't want to force her to live there.

>> Uh so, it's just um >> sounds like she's more lonely than anything at this point. >> Yeah, >> but she's a quarter mile away. She's not too far. >> Austin's in Oklahoma. Hey, Austin.

What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Um, so about three years ago,

my wife and I, we bought our home and then now my wife is looking at going and getting her doctorate degree. And so if

we were to do that, we would have to move away for a little while, probably three, maybe four years at the max. Um, and so my question to you is, would you suggest we sell our home and take that equity to pay off and not get any student loans or would you suggest us

just renting the home, taking on some loans or some debt for that student um

for the doctorate degree and then eventually we'd like to come back and so that's the main reason we would want to rent instead of just selling it. Um, I

don't know. What are your thoughts? Uh

why is she getting a doctor degree?

>> Um so she can be a professor

>> in what?

>> Um it's like a biblical theological studies.

>> And does she have a does she have a career now?

>> She does. >> What does she make at her career?

>> About 40,000. >> Okay. And so she could make a 100 as a seminary professor.

>> Yeah, probably between 80 to 100.

>> Yeah, that's probably about right. I agree with you. So that's the return on investment in the PhD. And what's the PhD cost?

>> It's about 60 to 80.

>> Okay. So you're going to send 60 to 80,000 to get a

30 to get a $40 $40,000 raise. That's

probably okay. I'd spend 60. I wouldn't spend 80 but um yeah and that's going to

take how long?

>> Uh I think the max is typically four years. I think it can be done in three at some schools depending on which one >> is she working while she but also then she has to go somewhere where she can get that job after she completes it and it probably won't be your hometown.

>> Yeah, I there we do have some connections in the hometown with a couple schools. Um, so there is like there's a chance >> not super high, but >> but I mean it's not it's not a sure thing. So number one, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money for student loans, period, ever, under any circumstance. Uh, number two, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money on student loans uh so that you can keep a rental property. Uh, so that that just

double down. So no, I'd sell the house for sure.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. you want, if she wants this dream and you guys are on this dream more than you want this house, then it sounds like you do, then the proper thing to do is use the house money to get the PhD and then use the PhD to get your next house.

>> Okay. Which we do have

we have savings. Um, but I >> But you don't have enough to do this >> funds and everything else. You don't have enough to do this because you said you were going to take out student loans, >> but it' cover about half of it. And so there still be student loans whatever.

>> No, don't do student loans. Pay cash for the PhD or don't do it. >> What's your household income?

>> Um about 180,000.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, you could save up in a year and knock this out and cash flow it.

>> Here's an irony for you. Here's an irony for you. You can't find anywhere in the Bible that God used debt to finance his plan on the earth. Not once in there.

And she's going to study biblical studies.

So, no, don't don't be borrowing money to do this. No. You know, it's too much irony here to chew on. You don't don't do it. No. No. Don't do it. And don't go

into debt for a PhD. Don't go into debt for a masters. Don't go into debt for a bachelor's. There's lots of ways to get your education out there today. It's ridiculous to do that. And and then try to keep in mind that what you're looking for is a return on investment on this education. And the lower the investment, the better the return. So get the cheaper PhD cuz nobody's going to give a rip where you went to school.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

Julia's in Colorado. Hi Julia. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um well, first of all, love you guys. So happy to hear that. >> Thank you. >> Um I have been listening to you guys for

like the last eight months, me and my husband and I. Um and we've been working on getting through steps one and two. Uh

we just had a baby not that long ago in

May and I heard just through the grape

vine um that my mother is going

bankrupt. I think she already filed actually and she has a parent plus loan

um from my first two years of college

and husband just recently just started asking me to help pay for it which we already agreed that I would pay for it.

That was the goal, but I had like no idea what we signed up for and I don't know what it looks like with her filing

bankruptcy. >> Okay. The parent plus loan is not bankruptable.

Um, it will depend on what type of bankruptcy she files as to whether it will affect the loan at all. Okay.

There's two types of bankruptcy that might work. One would be chapter 13 bankruptcy, which is a payment plan for 5 years. If she puts the parent plus loan in the chapter 13 bankruptcy, which

if she's doing one, she probably did, then it they're going to be pay paying payments inside the bankruptcy on that loan through that 5-year period of time.

>> Okay. >> Oh, and so it's it's a mess. It's a mess. And so, um, the, uh, if she files

Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which is what most people think of when you think of bankruptcy, which wipes the slate clean, the Parrot Plus loan is not bankruptible, and it'll still be standing after the bankruptcy. It'll wipe off her credit card debt. It'll wipe off her medical debt. It will wipe off any unsecured debt, but it won't wipe off a student loan or an IRS debt.

>> So, it's still So, she still owes it.

But the bottom line is you morally owe it because you promised to pay it.

Correct. >> I did. >> Yeah. So it's not either way it's not going away and so either way you're going to get the opportunity to do what you said and pay the bill. But you don't even know how much the stupid thing is.

>> I do actually. They sent me a statement last year. Um >> Okay. >> And I just had trouble like getting in there because I thought I was co-signed on it. Like my name was still on it.

>> Not on a parent. No. What? You're you can't get in there, but what was the balance?

>> It was about 19,000.

>> Okay, good. And what's your household income? >> A couple hundred. >> Um, so my husband and I, we make anywhere between 40 to 50K. Uh, we're working on growing our income right now.

He just started a business. Um, and that's gradually growing as time goes by. >> And how much debt do you have other than this 19k parent plus loan?

So without that would be about 30k

of it. >> Uh 16's on credit cards. He has a credit card. Um and then uh we have a car which

is only about 9,800 of it.

And then the rest is other student loans because I went back into school thinking

I can do it now that I was sober because I went through this whole time period where I was struggling in addiction and I really got behind on finances and it a

long time to catch up.

>> Uh this is my fourth year.

>> Good for you. Proud of you.

>> What were you what were you on? What were you addicted to?

Um, mainly, so I started out on

psychedelics and then I would use weed to kind of make up for it. >> Yeah. >> When I gave up the harder stuff.

>> And you've been dry for four years. Good for you, kiddo. And you got a baby and things are turning around. Your husband's got a new business. Good.

Good. Good for you. I'm glad.

>> Yeah. >> Good. Thank you. >> Are you working full-time right now?

>> So, yes, I am working full-time. I'm an independent contractor in the marketing industry as a brand ambassador. Um, so I

have busier seasons like throughout the summer and spring into fall and then

winter is our slower season. So we like to make up for it with uh Instacart and

then we also do ministry on the side. So we have some fundraising money that's coming in and we're starting to learn how to fundra for that stuff.

>> All right. Yeah. And he's got to get his business going because y'all don't make any money.

>> No, we don't make a lot. >> Yeah. You you Well, you need to really get the career going. both the careers going and get them going because basically what we're saying is you got $30,000 worth of debt plus 19 that you promised to pay of your mom's.

And again, you're not legally obligated. So what I would do is deal with what's in your house right now. Let's get your income up and address these debts smallest to largest.

>> But it's not in your name. You are not legally liable. you're just morally liable because you hand did a handshake with your mom, said, "I'll pay it."

>> Right. And I think the problem is like

I've I explained that to her recently that we're trying to do a snowball.

We're just getting our household in line and then paying off the way you guys teach. >> Um but there we don't have the best relationship. It's already strained.

>> Yeah. >> And like we don't talk. She hasn't even met her grandson yet. Oh man.

>> Cuz I don't feel like I can and let her into my life. >> Yeah. Well, that's okay. I mean, you still are going to go and pay the bill when you can pay the bill.

>> You paying a bill one way or paying it another way is not going to fix your relationship with your mom.

>> And it's not going to fix her money problems either, >> right? >> She's not paying it now. So, I mean, if you want to start paying the minimum payment on it as a part of your plan, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. attack the little one and when it's gone attack the next one.

That's snowball process, right? If you want to pay this and put this in the debt snowball that way, I don't have a problem with that.

Regardless of if it upsets the person that's already upset.

Oh, well, >> right.

>> Yeah. What kind of business does your husband do?

>> Um, so he kind of does a lot of different things related to music. He rents equipment and then he's a a show promotion promoter. Um, and he runs a record label. So, there's a lot of different things going on in that area.

>> Which one is most lucrative?

>> The most lucrative would probably be his show promotion and planning. We make we

we're making up to 200 a show right now.

>> So, he needs to do 10 shows a month to make two grand >> about. Yeah. >> Is he doing that?

Um, no, but we're just getting started.

He just got started with that like a couple months ago. >> I wouldn't make this a side hustle and he should be working full-time doing something else, even if it's retail because you guys need consistent income right now. We can't hope for a show and hope for a brand ambassador gig. We need stability. >> Yeah. When Instagram's your fallback, it means you need new careers,

>> right? So, the problem is he had a manager job last October. Um, and there

was a lot of politics with the regional manager and just last minute lost his job when I was pregnant. Um, and so he's been trying to get a lot of like jobs

that doesn't require like 60 70 hours as

a manager and they won't hire him unless he's like fulltime.

>> Yeah, he he needs he's got a baby. He needs to be working full-time. >> He's in crippling debt and his family needs him. He should be working 60 hours a week right now. We got a mess to clean up. Yeah. Great place to go when you're broke to work.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Kurt in South Carolina. I decided to dive into real estate investing a few years ago. I bought five single family homes, all 100% financed for a total of $825,000 and thought, "Wow, I'm a genius." I also had 175,000 personal mortgage and 40,000

in student loans. I had my wakeup call last week when I had to take my 3-year-old with me to post an eviction notice on a tenants's door. I just didn't take into consideration the time and the emotional stress this leap would require, not to mention the constant calls for repairs. The house's cash flow and the tenants pay on time, but at this point, the return doesn't outweigh the hassle.

I bring home 150k from my day job and my wife, who's a stay-at-home mom, could work from home if needed.

Man, this guy sounds like a a young Dave Ramsey.

>> It's exactly the Well, except I had a

little better situation than he's got.

>> Yeah, he's 100% financed. He's got personal student loans >> and he's going, "How do I get out?" Well, the good news with a house is you can sell them. So, that's maybe one way out of this mess. >> George, that was insightful. >> I'm I'm Yoda of the finance world.

>> That's it. Just sell the house, dude. I mean, why do you even need to ask the question >> and he'll He might take a loss on some of them. I mean, who knows what the >> Oh, well, you pay some stupid texts for doing stupid stuff, but play stupid games, get stupid prizes. But yeah, I mean, I've done that, right? And you have, too. Everybody's done that. But yeah, you just woke up and went, I just did a bunch of $825,000 worth of stupid.

The good news I can probably get 800,000 worth out of it and it'll only be $25,000 worth of stupid. So, and I make 150 so I'll clean up the mess.

>> Yeah. The good news is his day job has a great income and so >> maybe they went up in value enough.

>> He said a few years ago so if this is you know 2022 we've seen some decent appreciation over the last few years. >> Yeah. In South Carolina maybe make a little money on it even and get out whole. That would be incredible.

>> Knock out your student loans in the process. get you an emergency fund and restart from there and do it the right way, which is slow, which is let's get rid of the personal mortgage first, then save up and pay cash for any investment property. >> Katie's in Utah. Hi, Katie.

>> Hey, Dave. I'm better than I deserve.

How are you? >> Just the same. What's up?

>> So, I am the mother of eight children.

We just had our eights back in April, and I homeschool them. I stay home with them, and my husband is a physician assistant. Um, and a couple years ago,

we bought our first home at the top of the market, top of interest rate. Um, we were kind of lured into it by the 21 buyown idea, and our mortgage hit its

full scope in July. And, uh, I feel like

I'm going crazy. So, I'm wondering if you would advise us to actually sell our home.

>> How much is your house payment?

>> Uh, 3,900.

>> And what's your husband's take-home pay?

He makes 120,000 and that's um he works

full-time at one clinic and he works he picks up a couple extra shifts at another clinic and he's also donating plasma every week so we can pay for groceries.

>> Yeah, cuz your house payment is 50% of your take-home pay.

>> I know. I know. And it was before the 21

started even I mean it already was in the stupid zone when as soon as you moved in the 21 didn't even buffer that.

>> We were living with my parents and I was expecting my seventh child and my husband was commuting an hour every day.

>> Yeah. But I mean you went from you went from homeless in your mother's basement >> to $4,000 a month.

>> I know. >> This is not like a small step. This was a great leap.

>> I know. >> Yes. You got to sell your house, kid. You bought a house you can't afford.

>> Unless his income is about to double, which I I don't think that's in the cards. >> I know it's not. The The thing, too, is that he loves his job so much and where we live is actually very very expensive.

So, even renting um like a threebedroom house would cost us around 3,000 a month where we live. >> Well, you can't you can't afford to live there then.

>> That's I've been telling him this for a long time. Back in May when I had my four-week old baby, I said, "Let's just sell our house and live in a trailer." I'm willing to do anything, but it's hard for me to get him on board with making >> I'm not saying live in a trailer, but like you you go to extremes.

>> You go to extremes $3,000 a month rent

to a trailer in one sentence.

>> I know. >> Why don't you just go do something reasonable like 2,000 bucks a month and live out far enough away that you can find that and let him go to work?

>> Okay. >> Yeah. and let's get rid of this problem.

But yeah, yeah, don't you know um and then let's start talk. Maybe you can find something you could buy that fits in that. I don't care if you own or not.

Um but but the house payment needs to be

more like a fourth of your take-home pay, not half of your take-home pay,

especially when you have eight little birds to feed.

>> That's I can't imagine eight kids in a trailer. That's stressful. >> No, we're not doing a trailer and we're not going back to mamas either. None of that's necessary. But I mean, we're a fur piece from there at four grand a month. Okay, that's a this is a big big

serious nice house here. So, there's a

lot of different things we can do. Uh Millie is in Washington. Hi, Millie. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Um well, I've had to pay the stupid tax

and I did the wrong thing in the past and I'm trying to do the right thing now. So, I'm calling you asking for advice.

My question is, um, should I cash out my

index fund? And if I should, should I use it to pay towards student loans or for car repairs or for both?

>> What's wrong with your car?

>> Um, one of the problems they're not sure, they can't figure it out. The other one is like uh the cooling system he's replacing and their estimate for that is, 1900.

>> Who estimate? The dealer?

No, the mechanic.

>> You have an independent mechanic that doesn't work at a dealership.

>> Correct. >> Good. Okay. Are you Is it just you or you're single or you're married?

>> I am single with five children.

>> Okay. And what's your income, ma'am?

>> Um up until this month is about 3,000, but I am um increasing my hours and I

did just get a raise. Um, I do have some health issues from keeping me from working too many hours or physical labor, but for the job I have.

>> How old are the kiddos? >> I'm working what I can. Um, my youngest

is 12 and the oldest is 18. She set it off to college here this week.

>> Is there any child support or alimony?

>> No. >> Wow. there. But in lie of alimony, I did

uh when we divorced, I um I did get a

little bit extra on the house when we sold it.

>> And that money is in the index fund. How much is in your index >> exactly?

Um 7,800.

>> Not much. Okay. And how much student loan debt do you have?

>> About 90,000.

>> Okay. Well, number one, you're out here

you're out there fighting this by yourself. So, you got to get the car to where it's reliable, >> okay? Period. And more debt is not not the answer to do that. So, yes, we have to use some of this to get the car reliable >> and the rest of it. Um, >> you know, we're going to try to make sure that you continue to move up in your career and continue to raise your income because that's going to be the issue to address the 90,000. What did you get your degree in?

Um, I got it in marriage and family therapy. >> Okay. Undergrad or did you finish your masters? >> My masters. >> You're licensed?

>> Yes, sir. >> Why are you not doing that?

>> I am doing that >> $3,000 a month.

>> Yes, because I was only working um three

days a week, but I'm increasing I just increased it to four days and like I said, they just gave me a raise, so it will be going up. >> Yeah. Part of the issue is that I work 50 miles from home. So, um it makes it a

little bit of a juggle with the kids and making sure they're out the door in the morning and such. So, >> can you do any remotely part-time?

>> Um not with this company.

>> Okay. Because you know, if we can arrange rearrange this situation a little bit, a typical marriage licensed marriage and family therapist will make 100 plus a year.

Yes, but I only am at an associate level right now. I'm not fully licensed.

>> Why?

>> Um because I just graduated in 2023 and

just got this license in um 2024.

>> Oh, you got you got to get some hours you got to get some hours in to move up.

Okay. All right. Yeah, you're going to have I mean the income is going to be your overall answer, not a $7,800

uh index fund, but for now, the answer is yes, fix the car, but long-term, the answer is let's rearrange our situation so we can get our income up. And I think that's going to be really really important in order to be able to create a sustainable situation.

[Music]

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Greg is in San Diego. Hi, Greg. How are you? >> I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, after listening to your show, I I learned that I acknowledge that I made an impulsive decision. I attended a faith-based event in 2024 and the event

pretty much motivated uh faith believers to invest in the real estate uh market

and also the stock market. I paid for that training. I didn't have the money uh but they told me that if I charged it on credit cards that I would be able to make that money up during the zero interest period and pay off the charge and learn how to trade. Well, that period is gone and it didn't happen.

So now I'm now I'm stuck, you know, because now I have a $20,000 credit card debt from that and I haven't made much money on the stock market.

>> I'm sorry, Greg. Yeah, you got scammed.

Yeah, after the fact I I realized it and we were doing we were doing the snowball effect. We were going we're on track. We were about 20k away from reaching zero.

>> But when I saw this, I said, "Hey, we we can do this." And and I I'll accept, you know, my leadership decision at my home.

I I thought it sounded great. Um

>> but it is what it is. So I'll I'll >> You were looking for you know, you were looking for an easy button.

>> Yeah. >> And there is no easy button. Yeah. and this easy button's broken. It's and you've discovered that now. So, I'm sorry, man. Yeah, you just got to pay your 20 grand off and the last thing you need to do is keep investing the way they were teaching you because you're going to get in more trouble.

>> So, we do have money on the side because I was going to invest. So, you're saying >> Oh, you do more off paying off the debt?

>> Uh about 8,000 bucks.

>> Yeah. just you you know you're going to

do what you're going to do, but if you ask us, we're going to tell you what we would have told you before you did all this, and that's list your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything, but the little one, and take all your money that's not in retirement accounts and throw it at these debts in that order, and let's get them cleaned up because the shortest distance between where you are in wealth is not an easy button stock market course. It is your income. And getting that back and understanding that the borrower is slave to the lender is the only way to do it.

There's nothing worse than a scam artist except a scam artist that wraps himself in Jesus >> and charges $20,000 for this quote unquote training.

that's heartbreaking. Greg,

>> that just pisses me off. It's so mad.

Just so wrong. Oh, but you know when you

fall for stuff like that, you you need to do a CSI on your character and your soul and your spirit and say, "Lord, what is what is in me that allowed me to believe that?" And um you know, there's a there's some

interesting proverbs. He who is impulsive

exalts folly.

Impulsive exalts folly. Folly is the verb of a fool in action. M >> and I have been a fool in action. I've been impulsive plenty of times in my life. But I exalt folly. I I lift up a

fool in action when when I'm impulsive.

I become a fool in action. The the other one says, Proverbs says, um, "The wise

see trouble and seeks refuge. The simple

continues on and is punished for it."

>> You just keep walking right off the cliff. >> Yeah. And just keep moving. And I've I've done that.

I've done that. I like I know better. I know this is bad. He even said it.

He's like, I know down inside of me this is not I know this I'm I know this is and you walk right into it anyway. >> That wisdom section of the brain just shuts down. You go I can get rich quick though. >> There's something about it and I'm simple.

Then that's a another word for fool, right?

And man, when you start studying fool in Proverbs, you start seeing yourself it's painful. It's just like God, I did that.

Yeah, I did that. I did that one, too.

And the number of times I've been a fool and it survived. Because a biblical fool is not a greeting. It's not like not like, "Hey, fool." No, this is like an idiot. I mean, this is like when I have done this, I was an idiot, you know?

It's like, yeah. So, Greg, I can relate, man. I can relate. It's been I haven't done that one in a long, long time, but I did that one once myself. It's not 20 grand, but I mean it's, you know, you believe that there's an easy button and they'll sell you a course on how to get the easy button. >> A get-richqu scheme is what we would call it now looking back at it, right?

And you go, >> the wise, the wise see that they seek refuge. They see danger and they seek refuge. >> The simple continues on and is punished for it. >> Healthy skepticism. These Facebook ads.

>> Exactly. >> Or however he fell for it.

>> Yeah. There's a healthy skepticism on anything on social media, period. Is it

even real nowadays? Right. Is it Is it AI? Yeah. >> Oh gosh. >> Did he really say that? I saw one the other day that I was promoting car loans. >> Someone asked me. They said, "Hey, I saw a video of you and Dave promoting these car loans." I said, "Nope, that was a scam from AI and the devil himself." >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if it's completely perpendicular to everything you know about us, come on. I mean, how dumb are you to believe that? That that's not AI.

But yeah, there it is. And it's just golly. But yeah, it's we're there with you, brother, but I'm sorry you have to clean up the mess. The good news is you probably never make that mistake again.

That's a good news. Amy's with us. Amy's in Chicago. How are you, Amy?

>> Hi. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I've been listening to the show for about a year and I'm almost

through with the last bit of our debt.

We've paid off $500,000 in medical school debt in one year.

Yes, we got radical. We sold our house and used part of the equity to downsize

and the rest to pay off the medical school debt. >> Wow. So, what's your household income now?

>> Um, well, my my husband's a doctor, so we're we're doing pretty okay. We make about 25,000 a month.

>> Wow. Good. I'm so glad. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Um, but I'm

in a weird situation with a car loan.

Um, I'm in outside sales and so I drive

for work and I'm putting on easily 2,000 miles on my car uh a month >> and I had to buy the car for the job and now I'm underwater. So I'm underwater about $7,000 and I've just been told

that my company is going to be going to fleet vehicles in the next year. We have basically a year to three years to start participating in the fleet vehicles. So Bill gives me a car and they'll cover all the costs associated with it. Love it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> well, that means between now and the time you get the fleet vehicle, you got to get this one sold and cover the 7,000, right?

>> Yeah. >> When's it when are you going to get the fleet vehicle? Do you know?

>> Um, it'll probably be sometime next year that they'll open it up for us to start doing that. And, um, at that point, I'll have to I'll have to have something to drive between now and then. >> Yeah. We'll just keep driving it unless what's it worth getting paid down? You got great income.

>> Yeah, that was my question. And do I keep driving this and just pay it down

until I'm no longer underwater or do I try and like sell it, get something cheap? >> Well, if you pay it off, you're going to get all the equity when you sell it.

>> The difference in now in 6 months is doesn't matter.

>> Okay. >> So, just just pay it off. Let's just get it paid off as soon as you can. And then you get sitting there with a paid for car. It's got a lot of miles and you sell it when you get the fleet vehicle. >> I mean, you can knock it out before the end of the year, right?

>> I think so. I think you can.

Um, it's 36,000.

>> Yeah, you can knock it out because you now you got a $400,000 income, don't you? >> You make 25K a month if you throw >> makes 25K. >> Yeah. You make how much?

>> I make uh 165 base. He makes 165 base.

And we both make commissions.

>> Okay. All right. Wow. Good for y'all.

>> So, yeah, this thing's knocked out by Christmas and you don't you're not losing sleep over it and then you'll sell it when you get the fleet vehicle and whatever it's worth. And that makes you debtree, right?

>> Yeah. Woo.

>> Yeah. Let's knock it out and then and be done with it, man. Wow. Good for you.

Good for you.

[Music]

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Casey's in Ohio. Hi, Casey. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, um me and my husband are on baby

step two. Um I have a debt about 6,000

and including his it will be a total of 78,000.49 is 68 cents which I find very appalling

and we are >> Stop stop a second. I didn't understand what you said. You said he has 78,000 on what? >> Um no so I owe 6,000 and adding my

husband debt husband's debt it's going to total up to 78,000.

Okay. So, your husband has $72,000 in debt and you have 6,000.

>> Yes. >> And his 72,000 is on what?

>> It's mainly on student loans.

>> Mhm. And what's your 6,000?

>> Um, it's medical bill and credit card. I have 4,000 in medical bill.

>> How long have y'all been married? >> 5 a year, but we've been together for

six years. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

Um um what I make as a nurse is about 90,000 and my husband has his own

insurance company which is not doing well and he makes about 30. Um he did

get a new job right now which uh which he get he brings home um 3,000 to 4,000

now monthly. Our main issue is mainly um

he him disagreeing on my me giving

tights um every month and I do not like

the fact that he has leased a Tesla and sold our car which we only had two years and we could have paid it off.

So I'm not sure how we can, you know,

work together together to tackle this debt and have >> Yeah. When when y'all got married, did you not talk about like doing life together?

>> I didn't think so. Before getting

married, I was thinking about like, oh, my money's my money and your money is yours. But I am watching your show. I

just I've come up on your show probably

like a couple months ago and that's when I realized that um Yeah.

>> So, you want to get out of debt and he doesn't really care. What's the status now? >> Well, he does care, but he doesn't agree with the baby steps. Um, he wants um I

don't know, he doesn't want to get up his credit card. He thinks we need credit to get approved to buy a house to get a car and things like that. And in one of your videos, >> how old are you?

>> We're 33.

>> Wow. You sound like you're 20.

>> I I Yes. I >> He sounds like he's 20. He's so immature. Yeah. >> Um, >> yeah. >> Wow.

Okay. Um, so what's his plan to get out of this mess?

>> He just wants he wants to pay off the

smallest amount that doesn't have an interest. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that does have an interest. He wants to start with that. But I know with the baby steps, you have to um

start with the smallest amount first, which >> I've been doing. I've been doing that myself, but um he hasn't.

>> I'm sorry. I'm just so overwhelmed. I've never been in this so much debt before.

The most debt I've had was a 6,000 and

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, here's what you need to do, hun. Okay. You need to sit down with him tonight and say, "I'm so scared. I can't breathe. And you are killing me.

>> So, I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because our marriage is in deep trouble.

and I'd like for you to go with me.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. >> And you need to go see a marriage counselor. >> Mhm. >> Okay. You don't need to be talking to two goobs on a podcast when your marriage is falling apart.

>> All right. You got to sit down with somebody that can actually help you and him grow up >> and walk through the process of learning to respect each other, combine,

communicate. But this guy does whatever he wants to do and then just comes home and tells you I leased a Tesla. I mean, that's a husband needs to be smacked.

>> And so, um, I can't help you with that cuz I can't reach him from here. But, um, >> it's clear he doesn't respect your opinions on money and he doesn't make any money, which is kind of humorous. >> You're making triple what he makes >> and then he then he but he's got all these opinions. That's hilarious. broke people with deep financial principles and so but yeah it's that all that comes out in marriage counseling but you're terrified and your husband's causing it. So that

tells me that we have marriage counseling issues and you need to sit down with somebody. I'm sorry you're going through this kiddo. All right, Eric is next. Eric's in Houston. Hi Eric. How are you?

>> Hey Dave. How's it going buddy? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, I just need uh some, you know,

advice from Uncle Dave. I call you Michael because I've been listening to you for a little while now. So, I just need uh some advice. Um I'll give you the quickest, shortest story uh rundown I can. A year ago, I was facing some

legal uh troubles, had to go to court, stuff like that. I needed a lawyer. So, I went to my uncle. He was doing a little bit well off financially. So I

told him uh if he can help me find a lawyer, you know, but he decided to take on everything himself. He paid for the lawyer with, you know, the lawyer with me to court. Fast track a year up to to

today. Um, you know, I've come to find

out, you know, from the news and everything that he gained all his um all

his money from illegal immigrants looking and seeking, you know, uh legalization uh uh green

card stuff like that to be able to live here in the US. He was defrauding them,

telling them that he, you know, he he works for the law firm. He can help them expedite that situation. >> Your uncle was doing this.

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. >> How much do you owe your uncle for the lawyer?

>> I I owe him 10,000.

>> Uhhuh. And what do you make?

>> Okay. But but let me give you Let me give you just a quick sidetrack to that.

The money that he gave me, the money that he accumulated from all these people, it was about 1.4 million. FBI

and everybody, they did a they did a joint task force investigation and and you know where I'm at now. I'm I'm

trying to figure out morally, you know, should I pay him back? I would

like to try to help out somebody, you know. I mean, >> I don't know that you can. Have they seized his bank accounts? I mean, I'm guessing he's going to jail for a long time. >> Yeah, they seized his bank account. He he bought a couple. >> Do you have $10,000?

Um, no. >> Okay, then it doesn't matter, does it?

>> Yeah. I mean, I mean, but the thing about it, the thing about it, Dave, is that he's he's been he's been hounding me and he, you know, he's been >> hounding you for money you don't have.

>> Exactly. And he's been throwing my name under the rug to my whole family, making me out to be this bad person. But >> we don't have to worry about what he thinks cuz he's a scam artist. He's going to jail. Okay. We're not going to have some kind of moral Nobody Nobody's worried about his opinion of anything.

>> He's a criminal. >> He's a criminal.

>> Yeah. None of that. None of that matters. But but what does matter is is regardless of how horrible a person he is or what he said or did,

>> he loans you $10,000 and you owe him $10,000. So someday when you get some

money and you get a job and all that, you probably ought to pay the man back what you owe him regardless of morally regardless of what you what he has done.

Um, you know, that's up to you. But you

can do that. But that that's your only option is either not pay him or pay him.

But you don't have an option today at all because you don't have the money. So it's theory right now. He can call you.

He can hound you. He can tell all the relatives that you're a bad guy while he's sitting in a jail cell because the FBI raided him. That's funny. He's

telling people you're a bad guy. That's that's that's kind of humorous if you think about it. But yeah, I I wouldn't worry about it, Eric. When you get some money together, then deal with the problem. And when you get some money together, if you you someday should pay the band back what you owe him, regardless of his character. Cuz you

paying him back is not about his character. It's about yours.

And so I want you to pay him, but not today. You don't have it.

>> It's living rent free in your head until you do pay him. I can tell it's weighing on you. You don't like what it's doing to your reputation. So >> I'm not paying him because of anything he says or does. And I'm not paying him because your mama calls cuz he called her. I'm not paying him for any of that.

I'm just paying him because I owe it.

It's that simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

Heat. Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

George Camel Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Briana is with us in Maryland. Hi Brianna, how are you?

Hi Dave. I'm so glad to be here.

>> Oh, it's good to have you. How can we help? >> Um, well, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I

recently signed up for the free version of the Every Dollar app. I did all of my budgeting. Um, I'm still feeling underwater and I can't find a second job. But I'm calling because I want to find out if the 400% interest rate for

the payday loan that I originally took out for 1,500 um is considered actual debt. It's not on my credit report. Um I've already paid about 2,500 of it. Um and when I

realized that I I kind of like stopped answering their calls and ignoring them.

So just not sure what to do.

>> Why are you ignoring them?

Um, I really don't have the the the extra finance to pay them and I figured it wasn't showing up on my credit report so it wasn't necessarily hurting me and

I kind of felt like they already got their money because the loan was for 1.5 originally.

>> Well, it's debt. I mean, owing anyone anything for any reason is debt and so whether it has shown up on your credit report or not uh isn't the issue. You've you've got clearly a bad cycle. I mean there there's a lot of problems that got you into that payday loan um payday lender, right? What caused this?

>> Yeah. Um well, I do a lot of lending, I guess, to my family and I'm actually currently trying to get out of like our family savings club. Like we all put in like 600 a month and then when your month comes, like you get the the money. Um

and then I recently uh got a car. It was

15,000, but I'm upside down. Um, it's

just $55,000 student loans. So, I'm just

trying to like make it day by day. I have a clearer picture of my finances with the Every Dollar app, but I don't understand why it's so hard to find a second job right now.

>> What's your total debt?

>> I've got 75,000.

>> And what are you making right now? >> Student loans. Uh, 61,000 a year. about

3,800 net.

>> Okay. And your well, your smallest debt is now what is it? The payday loan.

>> No. Um a $900 buy now pay later uh type

thing. >> What did we use that for?

>> Uh I got a TV.

>> Okay. How long ago was that?

>> Um it was about two months ago and I was

paying the minimum. >> Mhm. When did you start the Every Dollar app?

I only started a few weeks ago. I just started listening. >> Okay, good. Good. All right. Have you stopped your 401k?

>> Um, I did. I did stop that. It was only $900 in there anyway. >> And you're going to stop the family thing today. Just call the family and say I'm out.

>> Okay. >> They're not going to take that. Well, you know, >> I'm sorry. Tough. I I'm broke. I owe a

payday lender 400% interest. I don't need a I don't need a family savings club. You're taking out a 400% interest loan to put into the family savings club. Do you understand how crazy that is?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, that stops today. Just, you know, sorry guys, I'm sorry. I messed up my finances and it's going to take me a little while to get them straightened out and I've got this payday lender.

I've got to get off my back and I'm I'm sorry. So, yeah, I can't put anything else in and I can't participate in something that involves money right now.

Um, so um also not playing I'm also not

playing poker with you next week. So, um, you know, it's like we don't have any money. So, and and then I don't know why it's what what do you do for a living?

>> Um, I'm actually a secretary for, uh, the Defense Counter Intelligence Department. So, like I really can't have my finances out of order, otherwise I'd lose my job. >> Yeah. Well, your finances are out of order. If they did a security check on you, you're in trouble already.

>> Audit. >> Yeah. You've You've really got to get this mess cleaned up or you will lose this job. You're right. eventually the uh um so yeah I I you know there's lots

of things you can do part-time I mean you can clean houses uh you can pet sit

you can do all kinds of stuff part-time and uh I I would get with doing something starting yesterday immediately

>> six different things working my tail end off >> see if you can return that TV you're in a 90 >> secretarial work >> you don't have time to watch TV you got nine side jobs you're about to have and so just follow the that snowball it works. And get rid of this payday lender. I don't care what's on the credit report. You got to get this monkey off your back. Otherwise, it's going to be another fee, another rollover loan. And that's how people get stuck in these cycles.

>> If it's several months, if it's been several months since you paid them, you may be able to call them and settle it with a lump sum, but you'd have to have the lump sum. Say, "Look, I don't know what I owe you, but I've got $1,000. If you'll take that as settlement in full, we'll close this out." And but you need the $1,000 in your hand to be able to have that discussion. And that is involving extra work and extra income.

Anything you can do to create some extra income that's l that's moral and legal, you need to start doing it yesterday.

Lisa's in Georgia. Hi Lisa. How are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um question. I've been married for 42

years and then in the last few years my husband's been diagnosed with um mild to moderate dementia. With that is come a

lot of um radical changes in his personality as far as our finances. The latest is we have a second home we have for sale and now he wants to rent it out

and I'm at a point in our lives where I

feel like we need to sell it, take the equity, invest it. That's our retirement. >> Is he does he is he aware that he has dementia?

>> He's aware but denial. Strong denial.

>> Then he's not aware. He doesn't believe he doesn't believe he has >> he doesn't believe he does not believe he has dementia. Uh one of the things he

wants to do in our discussions now with the sale of the house, he's decided that he wants to take 50% of the proceeds and spend it any way he wants to. And >> the answer is no. The answer is no. You have dementia and I'm not going to go along with anything you want to do.

No.

>> Well, that's the way I've been pushing back. >> No, you have dementia. You are not of your right mind. And no, we are not going along with any plan you have. I'm here to take care of you. I have for 42 years. I'm going to stick with you in sickness and in health. And we're not doing anything you want to do with money. You have dementia.

>> So, how do I move forward to do I need to to do a court order that he can't because everybody else think there's nothing wrong with him. I see.

>> Wait, everybody else? I thought you said the doctor had diagnosed him.

>> Yeah, that's true. Well, then everybody else doesn't think that. Just the doctor. >> Just the do. Yeah, it just he thinks his There's his friends and his >> Well, who gives a crap what his friends think? >> Yeah, exactly. So, do I need to get an

attorney and do a court order so that he can't make these decisions because right now we're 50/50 on account. He can do whatever he wants.

>> I don't know how to move forward.

Yeah, I think you have him declared incompetent in court.

>> Okay. >> And your physician's going to have to go along with that cuz he's not of right mind. We have to protect him from himself. >> Yeah. I don't know that he'd sign a power of attorney for you to have financial control. >> No, he's not going to do that cuz he doesn't think he's got dementia.

>> Correct. >> So, he's going to need to be forced into it. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, in order to take care of him, he's not of his right mind. That's sad. I'm so sorry that cuz you know when people get early onset, they they generally turn either really mean or really nice. It sounds like he's gone the mean one. >> So, um, wow. I'm sorry. And so, it's

going to be really combative, but yeah, what his friends think doesn't matter. I mean, that's irrelevant. What his mama thinks doesn't matter. I mean, what the what the doctor says he's got this and you've observed the pattern, then your job as his spouse is to take care of him

in spite of him. And yeah, that's a court order.

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Ed is in Kentucky. Hi, Ed. How are you?

>> I am doing well. How about yourselves?

>> Just the same, sir. What's up?

>> All right. Well, uh, thank you all so much. So, my wife and I were really excited. Uh, we bought our house back in '08 and we have been throwing a lot of

money to get it paid off and we are on track to have our house paid off by Thanksgiving of this year.

>> Way to go. Good for you.

>> Thank you. Took a lot of hard work. Um, but so, you know, we're really excited about what's coming up next, but also that's a lot of unknown for us. And so, you know, we we keep investing in our 401k. I've actually upped my 401k uh

contribution rate and she's going to be doing the same. But just wanted to try to at least get an idea of what are some things that suggestions that you all would have for us post having the house

paid off because after that we will have no other debts. >> Yeah. Way to go. Well, maybe step seven, we just say build wealth and give. And

so there's three buckets and you need to be very intentional with the money that you will have and you're going to have a lot of it now because no payments, right? >> Um and go, you know, there's three things we can do. We can have fun and enjoy the money and you need to do some of that. You can invest some and you need to do some of that and you can be outrageously generous and you need to do some of that.

And so, um, you know, you're still going to look at the pile of money coming in every month and you're still going to assign it to something that falls in one of those three buckets.

>> Yeah, definitely. And, you know, definitely, you know, um, the fun part

and the invest part and the generous part. Yeah, that that totally makes sense and that's something that we really want to do. And you know, we just want to also make sure by the time we retire that we can retire and have some peace of mind. And so, >> how old are you?

>> Um, I'm 42.

>> And how much is in your 401ks now?

Retirement account? >> Uh, right. >> Uh, well, in my retirement account, I currently are I'm currently at uh 340,000.

>> You and your wife?

>> And my wife um she actually has a little

bit more. Uh, she was actually at around 500,000. >> Okay. She got 850,000 in retirement right now. What's the house worth?

>> The house is worth

175,000.

>> Okay. So, you're millionaires.

>> Cool. >> In your 40s. That's pretty neat. Yeah.

Yeah. The 800,000 if you don't touch it.

You know, you said you're 40. What?

>> I'm 42. >> You're 42. So, if it's invested in good mutual funds, when you're 49, it'll be 1.6.

And when you're 56, it'll be 3.2.

And when you're uh 60

63, it's going to be 6.4.

You're okay.

You did it. You're real far ahead on retirement. So, I wouldn't worry you. Keep investing. Don't, you know, let the foot off the gas there. But also figure out, hey, do we want to upgrade in house? Could we pay cash for a different house, you know, 5 years from now? Yeah.

>> Start set setting some goals in your spending, saving, and giving go uh areas at least once a year and then check in and do the monthly budget. >> You've been so focused on this house, there's some stuff you need to do in the fun category. You need to upgrade her car. You need to go on a trip you've been telling her for 20 years you were going to do.

I don't know what it is, but there's some stuff y'all need to do. >> Renovate the kitchen.

just keep all of those things moving and you know make just make lists of things we want to do and then let's force rank them. What do we want to do first? What do we want to do second? What do we want to do third? And then you start you know fund that with what used to be a house payment and you're you're going to be in great shape man. I mean you're really doing beautiful. I'm proud of you.

Pretty stinking incredible. Uh, Cantry is with us in Texas. Hi, Cantry. How are you?

>> Yes, sir. I am doing good. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Uh, yes, sir. So, I am currently joining the United States Army Special Forces, and if I pass, I will get a $34,000

sign on bonus. Uh, I'm used to being broke, so I'm not sure exactly what to do with that, but there's a motorcycle that I want to get that is about $20,000. What do you think I should do with that bonus?

>> How old are you, sir?

>> I'm 20. >> Thank you for serving your country. We appreciate you.

>> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> Um, well, I I number one, if you invest in

things that go down in value, you're going to be broke your whole life.

Yes, sir. >> Motorcycles go down in value. I don't mind you getting the bike, but you don't need a $20,000 bike. What are they paying you? What are they going to be paying you? Not counting the signing bonus. >> Uh, it's going to be about 2500 a month.

>> Good. >> But, of course, I will be living on base, so I don't have to pay for living expenses. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, you need to be very, very careful with what happens to that 2500 a month, and you need to be very careful with what happens to the 34,000.

I would spend some of it on fun, but I wouldn't spend twothirds of it on fun.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, no, I wouldn't buy a $20,000 bike.

You make You're 20 years old, you make $2,500 a month. You're brand new in the military. Um, but if you want to get a $5,000 bike for fun, that that'd probably be okay. You know, you have a car. >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh, yes, sir. I have a 01 Silverado. >> Is it paid for?

>> Yes, sir. Uh, also I do have a loan that I'm currently It's a $4,000 loan. I've

already paid about 1,400 of it off.

>> Good. Okay. >> So, should I take that bonus?

>> Definitely. Definitely wrap that up, too. Knock it knock that out. Set you some money aside as an emergency fund.

Get you a toy, but a cheaper one.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> And uh and then let's start talking about investing and doing grown-up stuff with some of this money.

>> A lot of the guys you're running around with aren't going to be doing that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Because we've worked with the military for 30 years and when you step off the base and most of the bases in the US down each side of the road for the next 2 and a half miles is stupid.

>> Yes, sir. >> Every stupid thing a 20-year-old could possibly do is on each side of the road all the way down through there. And it's like they set it up to suck all the money out of you guys. It's a shame, but it is.

It's like stupid on parade right outside the base gates everywhere you go. >> And you know, you you can really screw up here, man. So, be a be a be a grown-up and not a little kid with the way you're looking at this stuff. And thank you for asking the question.

It's a good wise question. >> Yeah. I mean, this 34 grand is going to disappear quick in a good way if you do the right things with it. You pay off this loan, that's 2500 bucks.

Maybe put 20 grand aside in your savings and spend five grand on a bike and fund a Roth IRA with the rest of it. It's gone. And then you can't do something stupid with it because it's gone. >> Yeah.

Yeah. You're going to be in you're going to be able to do a lot of fun stuff with this over time. But, um, yeah, uh, >> use this to set yourself up with a great foundation.

And >> by the way, the $5,000 bike is probably a fouryear-old version of your 20.

That's how much it's going to go down in value. >> So, maybe get on Facebook. Maybe a fiveyear. Yeah. >> You'll find a 24 year old who made that decision at 20 who's now trying to sell it. There you go. He's probably in the

military.

Yeah. That could easily happen.

>> If you're on base and you jump on Facebook, all those people are probably in the military. So, that's how to find the deals right there. >> Yeah, that could easily happen. No doubt about it. Well, everybody needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to figure out and find the pros who aren't

just looking to make a buck. And let's get an agent who actually knows their stuff. With a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro, you never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salesperson because they're all interviewed. Our Ramsey trusted people are vetted.

They're coached to make sure they are market experts and uh we don't deal with anyone who's going to slam you. It's pretty simple. They got your best interest at heart. Go to ramseysolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and to connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. By the way,

folks, if you are listening or watching the show, uh, please click the follow button, the share button, share it with somebody, let somebody know we're here, and of course, you can click the subscribe button. All of those things matter. And leaving that nice five-star review with glowing comments about George is always helpful.

>> And Dave's good looks, that helps, too.

>> Yeah, that's what people get. >> I didn't ask him to lie. I just asked him to say good things, that's all. Just saying good things, that's all. Dave has a face for radio, but we love listening to it. It's all good. We can do that. I can handle that.

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Leonell is with us on the stage right here, the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions. Where do you live?

I live in uh Meny, California.

>> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And you're here to do a debtree scream. How much have you paid off? >> $75,117.

>> I love it. And how long did that take you, sir? >> Uh 20 months. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that two years? >> Uh $78,000 included my bonus for my base pay and around 96 uh 9 months after that.

>> Good for you. What do you do for a living? >> Uh I'm a CPA. >> Good for you. Wow. Very cool. How old are you? >> 25. >> What made you uh get in gear and say I'm going to get rid of 75,000 20 months ago? >> Um I was actually given a book called Foundations and Personal Finance. It was gifted to me in my last year of my MBA.

And I started seeing wow uh that's a lot

of debt. That was more than I was expecting cuz I went straight in not realizing you know how much I borrowed.

And I saw I was in a big hole. So, you said if I follow your plan, you know, be very uh aggressive towards the debt, I could pay it off within about, I believe you said a range of 20 to 24 months. So,

uh I said, "Okay, I'll do it. I'm going to bat hole. I'll do it." >> Wow. >> You took Dave up on the challenge.

>> I did. >> And he was right. >> Yeah, he was right. >> As per usual with Dave, I love that, man.

Congrats. So, this was our curriculum, the kind of the workbook for the curriculum, foundations and personal finance. >> It was a green book. It was a thin little green book.

>> Okay. >> Very cool. went through that. >> Very cool.

And the uh 75,000 was student loan debt. >> All student loans. Couldn't bankrupt on it. >> Okay, good for you.

>> Did you attempt to? You sound like you're like, I couldn't. >> Well, I learned in my CPA exams that student loans you can't bankrupt. >> Yeah.

>> So, >> so you're like, well, I guess I got to claw this out myself. I took the I took it out. I signed the dotted line. Let's knock this out.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Wow. What did you learn during the 20 months while you're working on this? Um, it's more behavioral than it is actually uh mathematical >> because I I would take a look at what you would talk about and you know I'm a I'm a CPA so I would just check everything you say >> and I say is this guy really right?

And he saw he said through the snowball method it's only around you know at most two months slower and when I looked at the avalanche method it came around that much for me.

Um, so I followed it and it worked

really, really well and it made sense.

>> M Wow. How's it feel to be free?

>> You know what? Um, I have a lot of peace. >> Actually, um, it's pretty great cuz, uh,

now I feel I can actually take risks I couldn't take before.

>> Like what? >> Well, I was really taking a look at my course study work that I can be really aggressive in my investing now. So I can actually grow my wealth as uh you know within reason um to actually uh grow my

wealth more. I was learning through education where they said the three biggest risks in stocks was overpaying, having to sell before you have to and bankruptcy. And by being debtree I'm

able to avoid overpaying by, you know, I

can invest in mutual funds, you know, using dollar cost average or I could do valuation with my my background. M um not having to sell when I before I want to is being debtree. That's the only thing I would really reduce your risk and therefore you're less desperate to go do something stupid and miss out on the market returns.

You're staying invested consistently.

>> Yes, sir. >> Way to go, man. So, if somebody's listening and uh they said, "Okay, guy

paid off 75,000 bucks in 20 months. How did he do that? What would you tell them the key is to getting out of debt?" Well, for me, I was a college student, so I delayed my life heavily. Um, I moved back in home with my parents. I didn't finance a car. I didn't go and get a mortgage for a home. Um, I lived

humbly and with uh my parents. And then

I just saved as much as I could. My goal was to only live on about 25% of my take-home pay, which I achieved. And I put 75K towards my not 75K, 75% of my uh

take-home pay towards my loans. And then I had people who could keep keep me accountable such as my brother and my my parents. >> Wow. >> And um >> so living on less than you make.

>> That was the key is just be super disciplined about that and you'll be shocked at how quickly you can knock out the debt. >> Absolutely. >> Which makes the avalanche method obsolete because of how fast you're knocking this out. Yeah. >> And even as a math nerd, you're like, "Yeah, you could. You might." But the people who actually become debtree, it's behavior. >> It's behavior. >> Way to go, man. That's big. We're proud of you. You got the rest of your life now to build wealth, to give, to enjoy.

So you went like one step backward going, "Well, I'm missing out right now.

There's probably some FOMO, but then you're catapulting forward exponentially." >> Yes. >> While your friends are going, "Dude, how are you investing that much?" I don't have debt.

>> That's incredible. >> Wow. Well, good for you. Good for you, man. That's awesome. I'm proud of you.

Very cool. Who was cheering you on as you went? >> Oh, definitely my brother, my father, and my mother. >> Mhm. And um I could tell that I made them really proud because I did something that they haven't done.

>> Yeah. >> Changing family. >> Now they're out of debt, you can get out of their basement. So >> yeah. >> Have you moved out yet? >> No, actually. Um I'm glad I paid off my debt so quickly cuz I got laid off.

>> Whoa. >> Yeah. So one month after paying off my debt, being aggressive, they're said, "Yep. Uh we don't see you as being uh meeting our standards or valuable. We got to let you go. We're going to go with other people." But um from there I was just glad I was really aggressive and >> you're working again now. >> Uh it's only been about a month or so.

>> Okay. >> So just been applying applying aggressively and I'm not too worried uh cuz my credentials and background. I'm willing to move if I have to. >> Yeah, you're a sharp guy. >> Good for you, man. Well done. Proud of you. Proud of you. And you brought your brother to stand with you while you do the debtree screen. Bring him up and introduce him. >> Hi. This is my brother, Denilo. He's following my footsteps. Uh he's doing everything I'm doing but better. >> I love it. Way to go, Denilo. Very cool.

Oh, very cool. All right, Lonel from California.

75,000 paid off in 20 months, making 78

to 96. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 I'm debtree. Yes,

>> there we go. >> Oh my goodness. That was incredible.

He gave it his all on that one.

>> That's fun. >> Left it all on the dance floor, as they say.

>> I wish I had that energy, you know. I missed the 25-year-old energy. I'd probably hurt my back doing that now.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, you're staying up all night with newborns. >> Yeah. Different phase. >> Affects it affects your energy level, George. I'm just saying. What a great story. Well done, sir. Well done. Very, very proud of you. Good work. Jasmine's in Texas. Hi, Jasmine. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing fine.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, so my husband and I are on baby step

two. We're kind of newer to the Ramsay um teaching method and um I was actually

recently laid off um as of yesterday.

Whoa. >> So it was >> Yeah, it was a little bit of a shock to us. >> You didn't know you didn't have any idea it was coming?

um we had some differences and my um

boss said that they I wasn't meeting the expectations that the company was wanting. Um so I thought I was fixing a lot of those issues and then yesterday they asked me for another meeting after um having a meeting last week and then they said that we're just going to have to let you go. >> So I thought that I had a little bit more time to kind of save up >> and it turns out I just had yesterday.

What what did you make?

>> Uh I made 45,000 >> doing what?

>> Um I was an admin assistant for um one

of the businesses local into the town that we live in. >> Mhm. Okay, cool. All right. And uh are

they giving you severance package?

>> Um they are not. >> Wow. Okay.

How long did you work there?

>> Um about a year.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. And what does your husband make?

>> He makes 65,000.

>> Okay. So, you used to have a 110 income.

Now you have a 65 income for this moment.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, here's what we have found

and we faced your situation many many

many times over 30 years. The first thing is it's really emotional and you're semi kind of angry and scared

at the same time, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. The second thing is if you push through that and go out there right now

and go get another job fast, you'll probably get a better job than you had, paying more than you had. If you wallow in this for about six weeks, you're going to end up probably getting a worse job than you had.

So, you you throw the shoulders back and you brush your teeth and you go to work again fast. Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, which will help you get that next job quick. Quick. You're

better than they said you are. Girl, go get you something better.

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Heat. Heat.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Philippians 2:14 and 15. Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God, without fault in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Maya Angelo

said, "If you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be." Dave's in Maryland. Hi Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. How are you, sir?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I um well, first and and foremost, I want to thank you for everything that you've taught me over the years. You change helped me change my life financially and never thought that I would be in the position that I am today with money and it's because of everything I've learned from you.

>> Wow. Well, good for you, man. I'm proud of you.

Yeah, it's awesome. So, I just I've been struggling for a while now in my current relationship with my girlfriend. Um, I'm

just trying to figure out whether I should stay with her or not. And, um, a

lot most of it has to do with our differences financially.

>> How old are you guys?

>> So, I'm 48 and she's 44. We've been

dating for about five years and it's

kind of at the point to where this is either going to be it or it isn't, you know. >> Yeah. That's a long time.

>> Time to time to paint or get off the ladder, right? Huh. >> So, what's the difference in in financial values here?

>> Well, um I I'm a small business owner and um I

think I do pretty well. And she's I

don't know. I'm I'm more goal oriented,

money driven, uh success driven than she

is. Um and she really doesn't have a

whole lot financially or like possession

wise and things like that. And sometimes I just feel like I would rather date someone that has a solid career path, you know, makes a good good salary. Um

someone that's more focused on their

career and money. But on the other hand, we get along. I mean, she is just she's an amazing woman. She's the the best girl that I've ever dated in my life.

>> So, are you wanting someone who has the same level of drive you do?

>> Um, well, maybe not drive, but just

someone that's that's closer to me financially, you know.

>> So, you feel like there's a disparity between what how hard you've worked to build your wealth and success and how little she cares to do that for herself?

Yeah, something like that. And I guess it's also, you know, it's I'm afraid,

not afraid, but just being the bread winner. And um I don't know. It's it's a little difficult to explain, but I just I wish that she had more money and she had a better job. You know, that's that's pretty much >> What is she making?

>> She makes about 60 a year.

>> That's her solid income.

And I'm well see that's the thing because if we combined our finances I think we would do okay. I make between 80 and 90 a year and she makes about 60.

Um so we would bring in around 140

combined you know and we've been talking about moving in together and things like that but you know the money thing just

kind of is what's been holding me back.

>> I don't see any crazy red flags so far.

Is she in crippling debt that she refuses to get out of? She has spending problems? >> No, she No, she's very frugal. Uh she's a single mom. She raised her son pretty much on her own with help of from her family, but she's a single mom. She's very frugal. Um she's independent. She has no debt. I mean, she might have like a$1 or $2,000 credit card. Um if she

rents her house and her car is paid for,

>> I mean, you guys are going to build wealth together and you'll accumulate more assets and you'll have a paid for house together. And so I wouldn't judge this just based off of, well, she's not coming to the table with enough assets for me to move forward. You know, I I would need a little more ammo than that to end this relationship. And it's not like you make 400,000 and she makes 30.

And so the disparity is not as big as I think you think it is. It feels more emotional that you're worried you'll resent her and not respect her going down the line.

>> Yeah. Uh something like that. And and also I struggle a little bit because I

grew up in poverty, you know. So I've

I've had this inborn fear of poverty my

entire life and um that's why I saved so

much and um I guess sometimes I think what if the bottom fell out of my business and I didn't I lost my money? I could I count

on her to support us? I know that doesn't really make sense, but sometimes that's how I think, you know.

>> Well, I I'm not hearing any huge

uh fireworks going off in terms of some some kind of bad warning here. Uh this sounds like a lady who's who's um rolled up her sleeves, raised a kid by herself, and has pulled off life pretty well. Um yeah, you know, maybe she's not quite kept up with you, but um it's not like you make a million dollars a year and she makes 10,000 or something. I mean, this is not some huge disparity.

>> Uh it's fairly minor. Um but but I

here's the the big question is not how much money she has or how much money she makes. That part I that shouldn't even really be in the discussion. What should be in the discussion is do you respect her character, her work ethic, do you respect her intellect and what she can add to the equation? And if you don't respect someone, then it's very difficult to love them and they go together. And so, um, long-term, real

lengthy 25, 35 year marriage, 50-year

marriage love type stuff. Okay? If you think she's deficit the whole time, that's probably not going to end up being there. And so, but it's not based on her income and it's not based on that. Actually, the things you her story that you described to me, I think she's pretty incredible. So, um, but you know,

you gota you got to think that, um, that it's not me. I'm not marrying her. So, I got pretty incredible already. I've already got that covered about 44 years ago. So, um, but the, um, yeah, that

that that's what I'd be looking at. Um, it sound, you know, probably a good opportunity for some good pre-marriage counseling to sit down with a good marriage counselor and get this stuff out on the table and >> put those fears out there, >> kind of comb through it a little bit, that kind of thing. And um

you know the other thing that might help too, you kind you kind of brought up your poverty past. Uh let me send you a copy of Rachel Cruz's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Uh it talks about your family of origin and how it affects your view on money, her family of origin, how it affects her view on money, even her story and it affects her view on money and how she get got to where she is. and um you guys get, you know, give you some jumping off points to understand each other a little bit better uh before you make the final decision on on marriage or on breakup, either one.

So, hey, thanks for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones here at8255225.

So, George, one of the big things we get, and I think that know yourself, know your money book is helpful for that, um, is with couples that are dating trying to figure out if they're a match. And, um, and money is a good

thing for that. Not because money is important, but because money reveals a lot about your character. It reveals a lot about your dreams. Uh, it reveals a lot about your fears. Uh, it reveals a lot. And Jesus said, "Your treasure is where your heart is." And so how you handle money, the way you look at money, what you're trying to get from money, all say a lot about you. And so it's a great way to get to know someone.

>> Yeah. >> Uh in in a relationship like that is to,

you know, to study their money habits because as uh Dr. John Deloney says, behavior is a language.

>> Yeah. And if if the values are there, then you can survive it. You'll have a nerd and a free spirit, a spender and a saver, but if the values are there at the at at a foothold and foundation, you can survive the relationship. And so that's an important thing to look into is, hey, do I value living a debt-free life? If not, you're probably going to be broke for a long time. >> You know, that's a good point. I looking back on it, we didn't mean to do this.

We weren't sophisticated enough to do it when we were dating and getting married, but Sharon and I accidentally got married in with with having two extremely different families, but both

families put a heavy emphasis on hard work >> and work ethic. >> Common sense. >> Yeah. And so neither Sharon nor I have much use for somebody that won't work.

And so, but and you know, consequently, we team up on that a lot. Like Sheni says, "You need to go to work." and Dave does it. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 29. Debt Isn't The Problem - Your Mindset Is | The Ramsey Show (Best-Of for March 24, 2025)


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:15:45 |

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today I'm Dave

Ramsey the phone number is

88255 225 jeffon Indianapolis hi Jeff

welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave

pleasure to talk with you you too what's

up my wife and I are in our early 70s uh

my son lives about a mile from us he's

in his early 40s he relocated back here

to Indiana from California about 11

years ago from La where he was working in the music business and uh he was

going to take over my insurance agency a few years uh I retired about nine years

ago so he did take over um he got into

tax problems when he was in California because he was working for a music composer that actually treated him as an

employee but paid him as an independent contractor so he didn't know anything about paying taxes got behind with the

state and the IRS end up owing them uh

30 or 40 Grand I think we helped him

work out a structured repayment plan as

a condition to him coming back and getting into insurance and that's been

paid through wage garnishment

uh since then I discussed with him

before he came back the need to stay on top of his taxes and finances because he's never been good with money during

that period of time many times I'd ask

him if he was on this and he'd just blow up and wouldn't talk to me about it

three months ago he called us and told

us that he was in tax debt to the IRS

again and wanted his mom and I to uh

Bailey Mount basically using our share

of his of of our estate when we die uh

we thought he probably owe about 50 or

$60,000 turns out he hasn't filed any

state or federal tax returns for the past four years nor has he paid any

estimated taxes for 2023 we're meeting with our accountant

next Thursday to go over all this to get specific numbers but I'm guessing from

what I've seen it's going to be over $200,000 and about half of that is just

interest and penalties he also hasn't

paid any 941 withholding or state

unemployment tax has no business being

self-employed obviously so my question

is uh we have the assets to do that but

we would have to sell off property and

mutual funds we our in I don't know if

you need our income or what exactly what's your net worth net worths probably about 2.3

million and about 80 about uh roughly

half of that is in two pieces of real estate our residents here in Indiana and

another home we own in Florida I'm sorry

Jeff 80 including the including the real

estate uh the majority of our assets are

in Ira's rths and 403bs from where my my

wife taught we' got about 140,000 does

Market what's his income at the insurance company well he just resigned from that

position because after he took it over he ran it into the ground and couldn't make a go of it right now he's doing a

sales job and uh it seems to be going

pretty well but he's only been doing it a couple of months he's making about

75,000 a year plus

bonuses is he is he

married he's not married he has an

eight-year-old granddaughter that we absolutely love and uh spends a lot of

time with us uh he got he he uh was

going to get married but they did it

kind of reversed they got pregnant first

and then they they didn't get along so they didn't get married so both of them are here in town and both of them are have jobs and or own businesses and they

they get along fine we we all get along

the insurance agency was yours and you

sold it or gave it to him it was I

actually worked for a captive company so

they actually owned it and when I left

they paid me a percentage of my renewals

and that's what one of the cornerstones

of my retirement now I see so I didn't

have a say in where so you so you had a book of business but what did he come into he he didn't take over your book did he he did pretty much not all of it

because they gave some they split it was a big agency so they split it up among other agents they gave him about half of it okay and he ran your book into the

ground okay ran into the ground okay

Jeff does he have any other debt besides the tax debt that you know of do you know what that number looks like I don't

think he owes he he rents he doesn't own a home I don't think he owes anything else he doesn't have credit card debts the tax debts the only one I'm that I'm aware of I hear your

discuss for his behavior in your voice

and I also hear also hear a dad that

loves his son even though he's been

stupid you hear very well

um so I guess there's two options one is

you bail him out which doesn't sound

real appealing um if you don't bail him out

what happens he just has to work with the IRS and for a lot of

years yeah up yeah we got the thing is

Dave this this has happened so many times I can't count him but you've been

there to bail him out every time yeah

and we we had to take him out of high school because of his behavior we had to sent him out to a a survival camp in

Idaho then we put him in a private school in California and all that required a second mortgage on our house at the time uh we bailed him out of a

car loan that he didn't keep up with that I co-signed for uh it's just been

one thing after another he just is is

I'm I'm okay with no being the answer

yeah I if it were me do it here's here's

here's what what I'm going to here's what I'm going to suggest he got it he got a severance

package from the insurance company

that's going to pay out about 30 grand over the next five years about 6,000 a

year I told him that we would help him

out if he would sign that over to me to

pay back what we're going to advance him but I initially thought we could do the whole amount I don't think you should do any of that Jeff I really don't that's

the way I think that's I think I think

that he's grown and I think that he

makes a living it's he's not making he's

not poverty level there's nothing wrong with him I think he just needs to be a

man and do man

things I totally agree with you and I

think you're a great dad thank you there's one other one

other question to kind of take this out

a little further because I don't think my son realizes how bad of pos position

he's in if he pays this over the next 20

or 30 years he still may not have it

paid off when we die and that's all right we may yeah but we have we have

all of our all of our assets and our our

our real estate is in trust and my

daughter is the trustee and the executive and we Cur we currently put a

clause in our will that that allowed my

son to take our house here as part of

his settlement of the estate because he loves our home but I'm concerned that if

he doesn't have this paid off I don't

even know that I want to leave that

share of the estate to him because I

think the IRS could put a lean on that

they can and after after he becomes the

owner they can yeah yeah and I want to

make sure that I mean ultimately it was

for him but it's ultimately also to go to our granddaughter and I don't want to

eat up our share of that estate I think

you can I think these are two separate questions do you help him today they are

yeah do you help him today Jade and I

are both saying sadly I'm probably

wouldn't I probably wouldn't the way I'm

thinking and then uh do I change the D

change the will uh in a few years I

might you can change it now you can

change it later can you put something in there that says if the debts not paid off the home goes elsewhere until the

debt is paid off you could leave an interest for the granddaughter and bypass it bypass the the kid they can't

seem to find his way yeah that's so sad

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[Music]

budget Jade washaw Ramsey personality is

my co-host today Graham is with us in

Knoxville hey Graham how are you I'm

doing well Dave how are you better than I deserve what's up uh me and my fiance are getting

married next June and we've been bouncing around the idea of buying a

home versus renting and I wanted to get

your thoughts on on that

um yeah okay uh I would not buy until

you're married for sure is that what

you're talking about okay yeah we're we

were thinking you know right around when

we're getting married next um June yeah

do you guys have any will you have debt

together we will have very little debt

she has a student loan for about

$7,000 we've saved up a pretty good BBT

going into our marriage and plan on combining our finances and following you

know a lot of your instruction on that so You' pay off the debt you'd have an emergency fund plus you'd have a down

payment yes okay then according

according to the baby steps and what we teach you would be in a position to buy a home let me let me tell you an idea to

think about okay and it's not it's not a

hard and fast um I wouldn't I wouldn't

call you stupid if you didn't do it or something like that but here's an idea to think about I think because I'm old

and I've seen a lot that one year after

you're married you will pick a different

house than one month after you're

married because I think you will learn a

lot about each other during that year

and I always joke and say it takes about

a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy

but that's the kind you know you get to know each other I would rather

relationally you spend the first year of

your marriage all of your energy on your

relationship not on hanging

curtains and picking wallpaper and for

God's sakes doing a renovation okay so I mean I I just I

love the idea of the house not being the

purchase the move not being in a

emotional relational drain instead you

all just get really comfortable with

each other and pile up a big old stack

of cash and the following spring buy a house that I like that um and it it

comes from the old Old Testament biblical story uh in 2 Samuel that the

Young Warriors in Israel in those days

were not allowed to go to battle in the

first year of marriage they had to stay home and take care of the family they

were not allowed to go to battle until they've been married at least a year and so that you know it's a bit symbolic or

metaphorical if you will uh and and it's

not something that you would be completely unwise and stupid and foolish and all that no it's none of that I just

I just think you're going to make a different decision a year later I absolutely agree with that and you've known each other you get to know each other a little bit better by then we've

been dating six years yeah you hav been living together it's different I mean you not been married together you might have been living together I don't know what you're doing but but it's different

I it's it's it's a different deal man

and um and it's not it's not that

dramatic really but it's just it's

subtle yeah it's um and and the thing I

also the the thing that that makes you

do is it makes you push back against the whole culture that's yelling at you buy a house buy a house buy a house oh

renting is throwing your money away buy a house buy a house buy a house oh renters are going to hell buy a house buy a house you know people are just go crazy they're like a beagle chasing a

rabbit man it's just you know it's okay

to have a little bit of patience home ownership is a great plan owning a home

and getting it paid off is a great

financial wealth building plan but

everybody doesn't have to buy a house right now just calm your butt down you know it's like and the longer you wait

the more you'll have more money to put down on it yeah so there's that and who

knows what the interest rates will do during that time might be fun it might

oh that's true or are you trying to make a call here Dave are you are you calling

NOP I'm just saying it be we'll be after

an election at that point and we'll see what's happening I didn't know if you were seeing your Shadow or

what that happens around here a lot cuz

uh yeah see things you get old things

Circle back around if you keep the suit coat long enough it comes back in style you know so all right here we go uh JT

is in Santa Fe New Mexico hi JT how are

you D Jade how's it going better than we

deserve what's up

so I'm about to be at a point where I'm

completely out of debt I've been working

on the last few years and about to hit

zero y way to

go my question is is it

a is it foolish to go back into that yes

start a business yes you just called the

ramsy show JT I

know you walked into the bear cave and

as the bear if it was hungry

you already know the answer JT

advice what's the

business uh my trade or work is a I'm a

401k consultant I do a risk of

[Music] compliance and I don't know it's kind of

start my own firm and it's a lot to try

to just bank roll why and why what do

you got to bank roll that's what I'm

wondering well I ought to cash flow you

day one well mean everything from you know

software agreements all sorts of stuff

wait a minute for what you don't you got

to have customers first well I mean I not so much worried

about that part of getting everything started yeah but you're going fast what are you getting

started what do you mean what I mean you

don't have any

money well I mean not enough to get this

thing going well what do you think it takes to get this going why why have you decid what you're describing to me you need a computer and some sweat okay and

a customer yeah or

six well I have thing you know for what

I'm doing I'd be go I'd be whale hunting

in a canoe and I need some stuff to be

able to do such things okay you are not ready to open a business and leave your job when you have absolutely no customers whale hunting in a canoe means

that you don't have a clue where your

customers are coming from you're not ready to open a business and has nothing do with alone you need some customers on

the hook well the first thing I'd do I

would take my current job and ask that they uh 1099 me and I would contract all

the work that I'm doing right now and then go look for my own bigger client so

I have an idea for cash flow okay so now

we're eating now why are we whale

hunting in a canoe well we got to go after big fish

to eat big right well uh no I mean

rabbits are more PL let's kill some of those neat I think you're missing the beauty of the type of business that you're starting which is this is a business you can start with little to no overhead and little to no cash yeah you

need enough to eat on but I don't want you floating in a canoe looking for a whale starving to death cuz you didn't have any plan or any background but if you got a plan for cash flow day one on the 1099 side then um and you think

they'll do that what's the probability of them doing that I think so because I'd be taking on

a lot of my uh you I'd get my own insurance and stuff like

that you know this is so vague and you

have not proformed this out the business

you're in demands that you do a better

job of Performing than you have done so

far this is a vague gen a group of vague

generalities and I'm going to go borrow money no you don't need to borrow money you need to organically cash flow this

little service oriented business and

you're going to be just fine uh and you need to put together a business plan and

process that has the probability of you being able ble to eat and cover the cost

of basic software services but there's

no big 500,000 or $50,000 or $20,000

outlay for you to come out of the ground

being a consultant yeah that's I think

Dave people think if you build it they'll come and I think it's the opposite you've got to go get them and

then build it while like you've got to build it while they're coming if you build it they will come in the movie world is called the Field of Dreams and

the business world is called a field of

nightmares so no yeah you don't you

don't want to do that you need to have you need to have the some you know I

tell our guys all the time hey elephant hunting is great but they're a lot more

rare than rabbits you eat really good on

rabbits there's lots of rabbits go get

the rabbits and occasionally you stumble into an elephant then that's extra but

let let's go get the rabbits let's get a business model that turns cash here

stack some cash you're fine JT do not

borrow into the vagueness that you are

describing us you're really going to make a mess this is the Ramsey show what

does the future hold for business ask

nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers economic growth or a recession

business taxes will go up or down AI

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Ramy Jade washaw Ramsey personality is

my co-host today today's question of the

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today's question comes from Patty in Illinois my husband and I purchased a

very modest home for his parents due to

the rising cost of rent in our area my

father-in-law is disabled my mother-in-law Works full-time at a very modest job and they pay us a small

amount of rent each month it's been 5

years now and the home has required a lot of repair such as water intrusion of mold uh we've

been able to cash flow the problems but it has cost over 15,000 not to mention

our sanity it has also changed our

relationship because they frequently contact us for issues or requests in

spite of many conversations about what is quote nice to have versus what is

quote needed uh we're trying to honor

our word but it has been very taxing

emotionally and financially we're in baby step six and we need to plan for our own retirement I keep telling myself

to suck it up but we are losing tons of

money with no end in sight I've listened to the show long enough to know we probably shouldn't have done this but at the time it felt like the right thing to do what would you do if you were in our

shoes well first off I wish I had more

information Dave I want to know how old these parents are I want to know I want

to know more I want to know the value of the house because I'm thinking if you bought a house in 2019 like the value's

probably gone up a good deal mhm so

they're she they might not be losing

money in the way that she thinks now the

actual idea of doing this I think was a

really bad idea um I think there was

just a lack of foresight here and I don't know what the promise was did they

say hey we're doing this house you're going to live here and you know until you die and we're covering it I don't

know what the promise was but I think

that they may have you know brought

promised more than what they could deliver on and I think that's probably what she's feeling some type of way about so she's got a lot of drama in her

words uh-huh she does and it's her

in-laws uhhuh I I the piece of

information I would like is I'd like to talk to her husband and see if he feels the same way uhhuh and if it was everybody's idea it's bothering him to the same degree or if this is in-law

drama that you are now molding or uh

laying over on this house yes

uhhuh I think it's a little bit of both

she does use the word we a lot which

makes me think that there is some Unity

oh I think I don't think it was a hidden thing uh but I think he went into it and

went bought mom and dad a house and Dad's disabled mom got a you know not

not much of a job and they pay us what they can pay us and we fix the stuff the breaks and and she's going oh God I'm

dying yeah you know it's like um so I

don't I you know

$115,000 is not uh we are losing tons of

money over five years it's nothing if

you own a house you're going to spend more than $155,000 over 5 years on a

house mhm and they're getting some rent which is good and it's going up in value

uhhuh going up in value mom and dad are going to pass someday and you're going to have a nice asset that's gone up in

value that you can sell and probably pay off your house and more if you haven't already so I I think I would first thing

I would want is get to the bottom and say what is where is all this resentment

really coming from um is it really coming from the

house I kind of don't think it is I

don't think so I now there is part of it

where they may have bitten off more than

they realized they were going to be chewing do you know what I'm saying like

in in theory it sounded good and then when you start walking it out you're like oh my goodness but to your point if

she's riding into to our show there's

something that they're not talking about yeah if your mother-in-law is calling you and asking you to fix something at a

house that you gave to her at a deal M

um and you already had you know

mother-in-law itis then that would just

make it worse right I mean that's it's

like well you know the difference in what is needed and what's nice to have yeah but you know it's a modest home they're modest people she makes a modest income there wasn't anything in here lavish there's also though Dave I didn't

hear a Jacuzzi being installed I think

to to to quote myself I think there's also a vocab rehab that needs to happen

because here she's saying my husband and I purchased a very modest home for his

parents they don't own the home they're

renters you guys bought a house for yourself it's your ass it's your home

and I think if you start viewing it as an asset that we have it's going to

change your thought a rental I have a rental house and it it a water leak and

I had to fix them all that's right as opposed to it's guess what I've had to do that a bunch of times right so I had

zero drama about it that's right because

I just fixed it and it's going up in value tree fell on the back porch I just

fixed it it's just you know it's just you own a house and crap happens right I

mean it's like um it the other question

that I don't I'm with you I I don't think we have enough information because it's very interesting question it is and

I'm imping a lot on you Patty I apologize for that but um trying to

figure out what's really happening here and therefore for to what to do with this because also their age might play

into it if she if if they're 87 suck it

up if they're

57 kick them

out you know sell it and give them the

money yeah that it brings whatever it

brings give them the money from it um

because you didn't you didn't buy it for money you bought it to help them and you

know if you want to give them the whatever proceeds are cuz you're going to have made some money to your point from 2019 so uh yeah that's that's

that's part of it and um yeah yeah and

and I think then I would want to just

really ask I don't know um well walk

that out what would you so let's say let's say she's listening she goes yeah you know what they are in their 50s they need to get out of this house they've been paying us a small amount of rent what would you suggest in that situation to fairly I I mean I don't care if you give them the money really I mean you sell the house and whatever whatever I I don't know if there's a mortgage here or not

but pay off all the expenses and then

whatever money you've made on the house

give it to them I don't care um oh I'll

tell you the other piece I don't know right here is I don't know Patty's income yeah that's right Patty makes $300,000 a year stop whining and deal

with it that's another good point if Patty makes $55,000 a year then you were

you did something you couldn't afford to do here that's true and that's where

some of this drama is coming from is the

pinch mhh um because it's like oh it's

we're we're but we're uh it's been very

taxing emotionally and financially yeah

okay I don't understand it's um 15 grand

is not taxing emotion I mean it's not

but so uh that that's yeah it's a lot of

details maybe call in sometime Patty

yeah yeah we we'd do that so you can

contact them back off the email if you want to James we' take the call cuz I I

don't know what to do but if yeah I think we could give a couple of scenarios if then okay kind of flowchart

it if they're super old and you make a

lot of money then this drama is in your

head calm down and suck it up if they're

super young and you don't make a lot of money maybe you need to move them out and sell the house I think those are the

two variables that that could be there I

I don't hear a lot of mother-in-law drama but I just think it's I it does it

did it was curious to me how much drama

she had and I wondered if her husband would feel exactly the same way I bet he doesn't now if they're only paying uh

you know the mortgage is 2,000 and she

said they're paying a small amount of rent so they're paying a thousand the

proceeds I'd split okay I don't care um the thing is

I don't you're not selling it because you

need money that's true she did not bring

that up she you're right she did not selling it to get rid of an un an

emotionally and financially draining situation to quote her that's true but she just she did say we're in baby step six and need to plan for our own retirement so that made me think they might want some money could be and it could just be that the drama

I'm tired of giving them anything and

I'd rather put it in my account in LW

situations they get they get salty

really quick not going there yeah not not going to do that you're right to

that you started the whole thing right when you said you shouldn't have done it foresight you got to you have to play these things out in your mind years and

years to see where it land and all of

the different variations of the plan

when you're trying to help your parents you're trying to help your grown kids

you do not enter into a process that

does not bring them to sustainability on

their own and so you get them up where

they're standing on their own feet and you let them go so whatever you're doing

create a situation that gets them up on their own feet instead of a continuous

drain and so that's so you people pay in

your 28-year-old's private schools for their

kids that's it's not sustainable you

shouldn't have entered into that this is

the Ramsey Show hey guys what's up it's

Jade warshaw and look if there's anybody

who knows about student loan debt it's

me my husband and I had

$280,000 of it but we were able to dig

ourselves out and you can too if your

student loan payment and interest rate are burying you refinancing could be the

solution now I recommend contacting my

friends at Laurel Road today through

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can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an

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involved and you could save thousands

over the life of your loan remember you

should only refinance if it makes sense

in your situation so if you're looking

for a low rate or a shorter term so that

you can pay off these student loans fast

talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and how

you could actually get a lower rate by signing up for autopay listen nobody's

coming to save you from your student loan debt if you want it gone you can't

mess around go to Laurel road.com Ramy

to find out more about student loan

refinancing again that's Laurel road.com

Ramsey this is the Ramsey Show I'm

George camell joined by Dr John deloney

this hour open phones atle 882 25

5225 while you're listening or watching

the show do us a quick favor hit the Subscribe button hit the follow button

leave a review text a link to a friend

let them know about the show or your favorite clip a highlight anything that can get the word out because you guys truly are the best marketing tool we

have to keep spreading hope in a world

filled with a lot of noise and distractions and hopelessness and so we

try to displace all of that with shows like this and we appreciate all of your help getting the word out Lester is up

next in Dallas Texas how can we help you

Lester hi there uh I was calling to see

about some advice on how to talk with my

wife about saving more than spending my

wife's a spender I'm a saver and we're

aligned on our goals but she just spends

a lot of things here and there and so

just some advice on that was there like a spit Shake on hey here's how much we're going to spend here's what the budget says stick to

it yeah we we've budgeted out a lot of

different things we even have it split to where we have our own fun money where it's like a hundred bucks a month that we can spend it on whatever we'd like

but um there's a lot of gifts and

celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family um and

then just things add up very quickly um

and then things are

gone is this a communication challenge

or is your wife being spiteful cuz

there's two different ways to approach this this I I don't think it's I don't think

it's either um my my wife and I

communicate very very well okay um and

frequently about it but and I don't think she's being very spiteful at at all she she agrees that um we need to be

saving and we want the we want the

things we want where a house and being

able to retire as both of our families

um aren't in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their 50s and 60s um and we don't want to do

that but she just kind of forgets about

the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there or 100 bucks

here and it just kind of adds up and so

if there's anything that we can do

to try try something different because

we've tried like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that but

obviously I don't want her stranded so she has access to a card that um is has

access to the main main fund for gas and

all that kind of stuff but are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used no no no

um we only have debit cards um I I hate

credit I always have um but yeah we only

use debit cards Mo most I I don't mean

to overly gender this but this is just the way it plays out in the real world

most of the time when I talk to men in your situation they try to solve this

with a plan a

strategy a new card a new spreadsheet a

new commitment

ceremony and the only way I've ever seen

somebody be successful is if they are honest with

their spouse about the story behind the

story the story behind the

strategy and that would be you sitting

down and saying I need to be uh open with you can

I tell you something that's scaring me to death and her say oh sure honey what's

going on and you say I'm scared about

not having any money and I'm feeling

like um I'm not communicating this well

because every month there's another $250

in gifts and stuff like that and $20

increments and I don't feel like I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm being fully honest here at

the table and you notice I did two things here number one I was honest I told you told her how you felt you didn't throw a strategy at her and

number two you used the word I not you

keep over spinning and you keep doing because when she does that man she's going to go back to childhood she's going to go to war yeah my guess is she's going to have

to decide I would rather feel the

short-term discomfort of not having a

gift for every single thing that pops up

because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody and now I can so I feel like I have to she's going to have to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband

don't have to worry about not having anything to eat and that's hard and I haven't seen a

way to get there without emotion without without a story without

you saying this is how I feel yeah and if she looks at you and says I

don't care how you feel I'm buying gifts for this thing well now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to deal

with yeah can you do

that yeah most

definitely the other side of this ler

when it comes to the Tactical is that

you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going hey what's happening this month a birthday should not be a surprise we know when the birthdays are happening Christmas happens on December 25th every year I check my calendar still happening

and so you kind of know what's coming up and you adjust the budget accordingly so if we need to add a gift line item in

the budget let's do that if we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catchall of 50 bucks or 100 bucks let's

do that so it doesn't derail our plans well that's often really important

because that's when the $20 plus $20

plus $50 turns into 310 bucks and she

goes oh gosh I don't do that yeah and

the other thing is we check the budget before we make the purchase so if we go to the gift we go oh gosh I wish we're

going to have to do a handmade gift let's make a little basket let's get some roses from the garden let's get cre

basket once John still has it he loves

it it was a great gift so Lester that's where you we come up with a solution together and have the conversation but there is a part of this that's that's on her as far as accountability going you need to check the budget before you make the purchase that's how I do it that's how you do it we can't just hope that we

lined up with the budget perfectly we use that as our guiding kind of North Star and I think when you do that you

start to add in these line items it starts to be less and less of a surprise

you get to kind of align it a little more and on top of that what is your

next goal what is the thing you guys both agree to is the next thing that we're saving up for well it's not necessarily saving up

for it's like being able to pay off our debts so you're in baby step two correct

so even more in baby step 2 there's even

more intention intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going we can't afford buy people gifts we got to put our own mask on first we're broke and

think about how many gifts we can buy people once we're debt-free with an emergency fund we preparing for our future then we can look up for opportunities to give and be

generous and so I think that's part of

it is you need to have a plan together

going we're going to pay off $700 a

month of debt and here's how we're going to do it versus we really need to save

more really got to get rid of this debt we need to get more specific so we can

actually hit the target Lester have you tried any of these things weth throwing at you does it all sound crazy no no no no no yeah and these are

conversations we've had but I agree I haven't been very specific with it my

wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in I mean I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before and it it's not been specific of

hey we're going to spend x amount of dollars on our debt every single month because we have to it's just been we

want to spend more on our debts um and

realistically we don't have a lot of debt um even student loans and medical

debt and things like that included we don't have a lot and So within a year we

could easily have 80% of it paid off um

dude put that plan in front of her put

that plan in front of her and yall talk

through it and then more importantly than that plan paint a picture for her of how

you're going to be able to breathe in your own home

how you and her are going to have something neat of y'all have ever had which is economic

security let her just absorb that and

feel her husband radiating this thing

that you've probably never radiated before which is just

peace man it makes there's not a lot of

gifts I'm gonna buy in exchange for my wife's peace for my peace you see what I'm saying yeah and then by the way once

you get that pieace once you like George said you don't owe anybody money you can buy gifts for everybody

mhm you could be kind of over the top and Reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody money M so this little plan this one

year thing we're after this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her so instead of we got to get on a budget you got to spend less it becomes hey remember that's what we're aiming for this is a little blip on that

timeline of intentionality and sacrifice

are you with me yeah and I hope that

helps we're going to gift you every dollar premium Lester I what are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together um pen and paper um and then I

use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it

you if you show a spender in Excel sheet

they implode inside they scientific they

just die so we're going to gift you every dollar premium it's much easier to look at easier to use you both log in you both have accountability so while she's out she can actually check the bud

budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home so hope that helps Lester we're wishing you the best as you attack this debt that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books thank you to Dr John deloney all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat and you America will be back before you know

[Music] it live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey

personality is my co-host today thank

you for joining us America we're glad

you're here open phones at 8825

5225 that's

8825 5225 Travis starts us off this hour in

Toledo hi Travis welcome to the Ramsey

show all thank you for taking my call

sure what's up uh I have a negative balance every

month and I'm kind of trying to figure out how to how to get positive again um

starting off kind of a little rough every single month after bills and everything so your your bank account is

negative every month like you're

overdrawn yep I'm overdrawn I actually

almost on a weekly basis um you know I it's funny that you

talk about this I literally just got off a webinar about this this very thing and

at the end of the day it's probably boiling down to budgeting issues do you

have a budget um I've been working on trying to

do one I recently got the every dollar

app uh premium uh because it was able to

track my stuff better but I'm I'm

struggling like weekly with groceries

it's it's just with a family of five

it's hard to keep it under a certain amount okay so I want you to not try to

do the budget I want you to actually do it I want you to go in there put the numbers in there that's step one you and

your wife yeah have you start have you actually filled out a budget for the

month uh no no I have not I haven't been

able to figure it out yeah okay so

that's step one matter of fact um I want

you to go to everydollar.com budgeting when this call is over and I want you to sign up for the next webinar because if

the issue is I've got it is it you know

is it I'm not I don't have time to do it

or I'm not prioritizing the time to do

it I really want you to prioritize this

the time sit down with your wife tonight start looking at it what's your take-home pay uh take-home is about 3600

a month how much is your

rent uh the mortgage is 560 a month

what's your car payment uh car payment

is a little high it's 441 a

month okay and five

kids uh three kids wife that is unable

to work due to yes five people three kid

wife that is unable to work due to medical issues what kind of medical

issues uh it's actually like a

hereditary degenerative uh disease where

it's actually just getting worse as time goes on too

so okay how old are your

kiddos uh I got triplets four and a half

years old wow okay so consumer debts kind of got

me you know how much you

have um not including the card it's

about 26,000 okay here's the thing we

got to start at the other end groceries

don't catch the slack groceries are the

thing so we're going to start with this

3600 at the top of the page you follow

me yes minus the important things first

the most important thing in your entire budget is food you have the money to buy food you

may not have the money to do some other stuff but you have the money to buy food period end of story okay so 3600 minus

food what are y'all spending on food uh I try to keep it around 180

bucks a week but I mean it's usually 180

bucks to 220 how often do you eat out

how often do you eat out um

maybe once a week but it's just me for lunch when I'm unable to pack I am going to a trade school at night it's either

lunch or dinner I go three nights a week

um okay all right so so if we take um

800 bucks 700 bucks for your budget for

food right for a month for a month that

leaves us $2,900 so you can buy food food's first

you got me yes I don't care if you pay

anybody else till you feed your family

you follow me all right second thing is

we pay $550 for shelter

done right yep and then we pay the light

bill and the water bill so we're warm

we're fed and we're

dry okay this is survival first you

following me yes uh we may not keep this

stupid car cuz it's freaking out of control if we can't come up with a way to get it paid off soon it's got to go

but for now we're going to pay the car payment too food shelter clothing

transportation and utilities are basic

necessities of life we call those the

four walls you do the four walls before you do anything else everyone else and

let me tell you who's at the bottom of the freaking list student loan how big's

a student loan I don't have one than you

know who's right at the bottom next to them stupid credit card companies cuz

you know what they can do if you don't pay them nothing except destroy your credit and you eventually 8 years from

now but we're going to take care of them before we get there okay they're at the

bottom of the page so let me just tell you your emotional state and your sense

of control over your destiny changes

when your family is fed the lights and

water are paid and the mortgage is paid

and you you are in a different place

emotionally and spiritually the rest of it's just a stupid game I'm behind

on okay but right now it feels like life

or death cuz you've got grocery as the last thing not the first

thing yes by the time I pay groceries

I'm overdraft no by the time you pay

MasterCard Oh wait we're not going to go into overdrift so we're not paying MasterCard screw them okay for this

month and then we've got to adjust our income now you got to get your income up dude what are you gonna do to get your income up it it it goes up progressively

every uh every six months as long as I

keep up my uh my apprenticeship and everything so you got you got six months

a hell what are we going to do in the short term to get it up um you're going toade school three

nights a week what are we doing on those other nights cuz you're about to do some more work dude your family's H homework

and doing whatever I can yeah around the

house hous work and everything yeah you're going to probably not be doing as much of that the laundry May pile up a

little bit because you got to go make some money cuz 3600 bucks is tough

M so the way you the way you get this

straight Side Up is you First Take care

of necessities and then two you get over the top of it and we're going to cut expenses and add income and that creates

margin and that will get you under

control Travis so you you do have a very

tight tight tough

situation so something's got to go out

of the expense lines and something's got

to come up quickly in the income side

because you know you know it's not easy you got a really nice low house payment

it's the best thing in this whole story right now

so you got you got a fixable situation

but the faster you get the income up and the out go down the faster the Pain's going to leave okay does that make sense

to you yeah absolutely I was just

nervous about missing credit card payments andu I want to give you permission to feed your children before you pay MasterCard yeah I understand

okay when you get that straight in your head all of a sudden it changes everything because if everybody's fed and the lights are done and the water's

paid and and the house payments paid I

mean we live to fight another day but if

we pay MasterCard and then we don't have enough money to feed the triplets dad

gum that's not fun been there done that

that terrorizes your butt doesn't it yes it does been there done that every

dollar.com budgeting signup for one of

Jade's webinar she'll walk you through what we just did this is the ramsy show

statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all I don't understand

this John why don't people want to take care of their family they think they're going to die or something well I used to be one of those guys I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said hey the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I

immediately went and got term life insurance that's a gut punch and oh

you're telling me and for for decades Dave I've sat across people who've lost a spouse they've lost somebody important

to them and they don't know what to do

next me too I mean you're going to have a crisis here and you know you got two

options while you're sitting and talking to a young WI she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's

concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow that's exactly these are the two options take care of your dadgum family man term life insurance can replace income pay off Debs cover funeral expenses so your family can

actually have the opportunity to just be

sad yeah to just miss you that's exactly

what it's supposed to be it's saying I

love you to your family term life insurance Jeff Xander and the team at

Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable I've used them personally for

25 years they're the only people I trust

go to zander.com or call 800

35642 82 Jade washaw Ramsey personality

is my co-host today open phones atle

8825

5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money Jared is with us in

cordelan Idaho hi Jared welcome to the

Ramsey Show hi guys hey I have a question

regarding cost of

living raises compared to

inflation I personally enjoy giving my

customers the cheapest service available

yet to keep up with inflation we have to

give raises how do those two things mesh

together and is there anything we can do

to battle the inflation as business

owner no not you know your job is not

the macro economy your job is to run

your business and that means take care

of your family and the families that you

pay um that's your job um the

macroeconomy discussion is that um when

things go up when the cost of a loaf of

bread the cost of a service the cost of

a uh a pack of hot dogs whatever it is you want to call a gallon of gas when when

the cost of that goes up one of the

reasons the cost of the item has gone up

to the consumer when you raise your prices in business is because their cost

of goods has gone up if their cost of goods you know for instance if I make a

uh if we print a book uh a Total Money

Makeover a baby steps Millionaire's book

well the cost of paper has gone up 30%

in the last 24 months

all right and so that's going to be built into my pricing on the next book

that we put out agreed if the uh if the cost of that

book includes a a dock worker to do the

shipping and a truck driver to deliver

it and both of those people get paid

more by me to bring me that book then

now the cost of that book has gone up again the paper cost went up and the

labor cost associated with delivering

that went up and so anytime you pay

people more inside your business you

have to absorb that in price

changes and so price increases are

always not always but they they they're

they have you have to do a price increase to stay open otherwise you're not profitable to cover your actual cost

of goods and cost of

Labor you don't have any margin you're out of business and when the cost of Labor goes up due to cost of living raises or any other raises

uh just a shortage of uh workers uh an

example of that is um you know we told

when America got fouchi we told all of

the service industry all the waiters and

the people that make your beds at the

hotel and uh the people in the service

world that they weren't

essential and we sent them home told

them they couldn't work if you're a

restaurant worker you're not allowed to work and in some places we did did that

for a month other places we did it for a

year when you tell people they're not

essential and then you want them to come

back they remember how you pissed on

them last time and so guess what you want to hire

somebody in the service world today

preco you might have done that for $10

now you might be looking at

$25 because there's a shortage of

workers in those Industries still to

this day yeah postco

and so uh you know the economic

implications of covid are still shaking

out you it created a labor disruption

and a labor price

change uh and we've seen it in other

areas of Labor as well our cost of what

we pay someone to work here at Ramsey

has changed in some of the areas pretty dramatically and some of the we do comp

studies to see where they're charging so yeah then that means that if I'm going

to uh be profitable I have to raise a

price somewhere and so that person that

buys that pays more and that's called

inflation yeah you don't and you don't

have to feel guilty about it it's just part of part of it but I mean what what

what he's pointing out and I think it's good for people to hear out there is when you're walking around with a little picket in your hand and you're saying I

demand

$15 I demand $22 where I was making 10

to work at McDonald's

then the cost of McDonald's goes up mhm

to cover your idea of you being worth

more then you don't get to about

paying more for stuff because you caused

it that's what I'm talking that's what he's talking about and so you can't go I

don't like the fact that fast food prices all went up and yet you're

walking around demanding that the cost of labor at a fast food place go almost

freaking double yeah and then and then

can't F you know of course you

know it's conect costs more you know I

mean that's why that's how that's how it works because these businesses are not evil and greedy but they also are not

not for profit that's right they have to

make a profit to stay open and oh by the

way even nonprofits are

profitable a nonprofit that isn't

profitable closes out of business it's

out of business it's gone nonprofit is

not an not an actual dollar amount of

they didn't make more than they spent

it's just an accounting entry and an IRS

designation but they actually you know

your church has to take in more than it

puts out otherwise it

closes so nonprofits are profitable

hello and you know and so if the cost of

electricity at your church goes up then

there you go I mean you're going to you're going to if the cost of Staffing

at your church goes up because you're competing in the marketplace for that

cre creative position at the church that

music director at the church you're you're competing with the marketplace

then that you know it costs more to operate that organization and some organizations haven't survived that that's right so yeah inflation includes

cost of Labor and when you've had a

labor disrup disruption like the

quarantines created uh we haven't seen

we've seen most of the end of it but we haven't seen the complete end of it yet

um it will calm down and smooth out eventually but even a little 3% 5% cost

living raise then gets built into the

thing and you can't really in business I

can't stand against that and go I just

refuse to raise my prices well you're going to refuse to stay in business you

know that's just kind of dumb so so the

next book you buy from us get ready the

price is going to be more CU hello you

know those $10 sales we run they're be

1250 they're about done I'm just

saying we're about done with a $10 sale

cuz it $10 Sal's about backwards it's

about upside down now and I'm about done with it so uh that was helpful for a

while but been doing them for been doing them for 10 years and you know cost cost

of cost of paper kick kicked my butt and

so I'm GNA pass on the butt kicking all right that's how this works that's how that's how it works y'all I mean it's just this is how it is so if you think

it's otherwise then you're being naive

so but it's interesting to me that we

teach so little Civics and so little

economics today that people can't make a

basic connection connected I demand to

be paid more but then on the other hand

I'm going to about inflation yeah

no I don't think you freaking caused it

that you're the essence of it I mean you

know I can't believe the cost of bread

well it cost about twice the labor to

put the bread on the Shelf now that's right that it did so look I mean almost

double it's crazy and you can't even get the help can't get people show up CU

they're sitting at home in the mother's basement playing Nintendo it's nuts so

now we don't have that problem Ramsey cuz we're not dealing with that level of labor we're dealing with a high class you know generally here so we got a whole different whole different set of

uh uh things that that we deal with that

are wonderful by and large but yeah it's a it's a great discussion Jared and you

know the problem was you pulled the string on the monkey so you got you got the Soap Box you got the Soap Box

response because I can go on up for days about this but it is interesting how

ignorant yeah you know some of this

wealthy quality stuff is and all this

stuff they just they're ignorant of the connection the unintended consequences of their little shallow ideas yeah

absolutely and where they're going so I'm glad that he pulled the string yeah

well you just ever so often I have to get out of my system

yeah uh we will look back in time and

say fouchy wow just

wow this is the Ramsey show what does

the future hold for business ask nine

experts and you'll get 10 different answers econom IC growth or a recession

business taxes will go up or down AI

will help us work or it will replace us

all but there's no such thing as a

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Ramsey Jade washaw Ramsey personality is

my co-host today open phones at

88255 225 Sam is in Daytona Beach Hi Sam

welcome to the Ramsey Show

hi Dave hi Jade thanks so much for taking my call today I appreciate it sure what's

up okay so I've got um it's a

complicated situation but I'm going to try and simplify it as easy as best as

possible for you guys so I can just honor your time so basically I have um

I'm completely debt free I've never had any debt I'm very thankful to you for

that when I was 18 years old I took FPU

before I went to college wow and

actually graduated fully debt free

um and so it was the best decision I ever made so never known any debt I have

a fully funded emergency fund but about

a year ago I was given um a sum of money

from a family member um now the sum of

money that it was that I was given it

was kind of given with the pretext of

the reason why they had this money was for a wedding or maybe to invest into to

give me to give for like my first property that I would own but since kind of none of those things have happened they decided I'm just going to give it to you now um and I want you to do

something with it so in regards to like

investing or etc etc how much money is

it my problem is so it was

$20,000 okay cool that's

awesome yeah yeah so um so I guess my

next issue was more um I kind of don't

know what to do in the sense of I don't

know much in regards to investment

um and since it was kind of sprung on me

uh of especially I think with the attachment of going it was going to be for maybe a wedding or maybe a house deposit but that kind of hasn't happened

so do you not own a home guess I'm a bit

are you renting I don't no you're

renting um are you opposed to saving

this I mean you said that initially it

was maybe for a wedding maybe for a down payment why wouldn't you set it aside

and add to it as a Down

payment well I guess that's I guess

that's part of my question of just going is that the best thing to do

um because I actually have no problem

with it I think what I've been struggling with is because from this

family member it was kind of given the

the I'm giving you this money because I want you to do something with it in regards to investing it rather than it just sitting in my bank account doing nothing Well it wouldn't be doing nothing I mean you you can put it in a

mutual fund and add to that mutual fund and make that down payment fund uh two

years from now three years from

now yeah yeah okay um just go to ramseys

solutions.com just go to ramsy

solutions.com and click on

smartvestor and you'll find a group of

smart Vestor Pros in the Daytona Beach

area you can choose from among them

which one you would like to work with

yeah and you want someone with the heart of a teacher because it sounds like you're new to investing and they'll sit

down and teach you about about investing

only after you have learned mhm and feel

competent and comfortable that's right

do you invest and don't ever invest in

something you don't understand but if I

woke up in your shoes I and if I had given you that gift with that guideline

I would be happy with you using some

basic mutual funds to let that be parked

in until and add some to it as you go

along for a future down payment yeah

plan on having it in there five years or

so that's what I'd say so it has some

time to go in the right direction yeah you should be able to do great with it that should be excellent easy Jill Is With Us

in Phoenix uh if I pushed the right

button Jill's there hi Jill's with us in Phoenix hi Jill how are you I'm well thank you so much thanks

for taking my call sure what

up so I'm calling uh I've listened to

the show off and on for years but I got

really serious about six months ago and

um I so I I'm going to admit if Out

start that I know I've messed up but um I have about $100,000 of debt

with my ex-husband I'm currently married

um my current husband and I make good money um because this debt felt so

overwhelming I kind of shoved it to the

side we paid off all of our other debt

um and I started saving for a house I

went to basically I skipped partial step

two and went to step three and we

started saving we paid so all your you

you and your current husband paid off all your other prear your debts from the

other marriage except this debt and what

is this debt how big is

it it's

$100,000 and the IRS oh okay and how did

you end up $100,000 in debt to the

IRS so uh my former husband owned a

company um tax issues got complicated um

life was really overwhelming he didn't

want to deal with it I didn't know how to deal with it so we just didn't file seven years of taxes yikes yeah so when we got divorced

wait a minute wait minute did you have an income during that time you personally I did I did and you didn't

file taxes on that

income um so did you file taxes on your

income during the seven years no nope

okay so his business was complicated you

didn't file on it and how did the100

come about who decided what that

was so when we were getting divorced we

actually hired a CPA which is what we should have done in the first place and

they went through filed all of our taxes

and let us know you know what we owed as

well as uh initially interest and

penalties and of course why in the world

did you file filing jointly while you're

going through a divorce why didn't you file separately you would have only been responsible for the taxes on your income

the judge required it

unfortunately I

know I don't believe

you I think your attorney mailed it in

judges that's not that's not logical the

judge required you file your freaking

taxes I don't I don't argue that but

that he didn't file you he didn't require you you were as liable that

you're had to pay taxes on his business

that he didn't file on

ah so because the the judge basically

saidwell you benefited from the income while you were married so you are both jointly and severally liable and you have to file together it was very very

frustrating so the ex I have a question

about your ex-husband is he going to if

you both said all right it's $100,000 I pay 50 you pay 50 is he going to is he

going to do it no it's joint in serval

she's liel for all of it until it's all

paid through the divorce

um he is obligated to pay 60% and I'm

obligated to pay 40 and that's kind of part of the question is should try to

pay the 40,000 he's not no he's not the

divorce decree says that but the IRS says you owe 100 correct the IRS will not acknowledge

that exactly they don't have to if I pay

the hundred and I can take him back to

court and sue him for that portion yeah

good luck with that or I

know and honestly

ly I it wasn't until I called a smart

investor Pro because I started saving for a house and I had my emergency fund

I was savings for a house and um your

smart investor Pro was like no no girl you got to go back to step two you have to deal with this yes you got to deal with it right so how much money do you have laying around so I have

$55,000 um part of that was money that I

got from uh my son passing away and part

of that is money we saved gosh okay I

got to tell you there's a couple courses you can go through here one course you

can go through is you can pay the 100,000 and hope you get his 40 back out

of him and I wouldn't give you much hope for that and you move on with your life

that's a fairly easy course to take

that's the clean course that's the easy one okay here's the one I would do though and it's the hard one okay um I

would hire another CPA or rather a tax

attorney and I would go and uh go back

before the probate courts where the

where the divorce was done and challenge that judge's ruling and refile under the

innocent spouse provision cuz I don't

think you're liable for his taxes and

you're innocent of his is the thing ask

your C ask your tax attorney about the innocent spouse provision this is where a spouse just signs off on everything

and the other spouse is running the business and then and they just sign off

on it then they don't get half the thing they get out they get out Scot free and

you'd be liable for your income

the taxes on your income during that seven years but not on the business's

income and I'm challenging that judge's

ruling if I'm you it's going to cost you

10 grand to do this I was going to say how much would you spend to do that yeah and but I would do it this is the Ramsey show this show is sponsored by better help all right so I was born and raised

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today hey guys if you didn't

know I love talking to you about money

we also help small businesses about

10,000 of them Across America and uh we

have a podcast called on trade leadership it was actually the very first podcast we ever did at Ramsey and

it was run by uh other Ramsey personalities and interview style and stuff over the years I took it over

about two years ago and started taking calls from small business people about

leadership and small business questions it's called entree leadership podcast it's very popular in that world and if

you want to be part of that and you run

a small business you got a question about it you can call and leave us a voicemail there at 844 944 1070 844

94410 70 or you can go to Entre

leadership.com askk leave your question our team will

get you set up to be a caller on there

also a reminder that this is the last um

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over YouTube and podcast there's another

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Ramsey Network app and on some talk

radio stations around America and so if

you want the Ramsey Network app uh is completely free so you can finish this

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both um and uh just jump over the Ramsey

Network app it's completely free there's all kinds of stuff you can do there like search calls by subject find out what we

got to say about any certain thing type it in you can type in a email and send it to us we'll answer it here on the air we do a lot of stuff that's really fun over on the Ramsey Network app so be sure you check all that out Ryan is with

us in Hartford Connecticut hey Ryan

welcome to the Ramsey Show hey how are you guys sure what's

up hey so I have a bit of a problem I

never thought this was GNA happen so uh

in 2018 my father passed away and he

left me and my brother a 401k plan uh

fast forward 5 years uh I got a check in

the mail this morning uh for about

245,000 the original account balance was

about 300,000 and what's happening is they

gave me the check and I have to pay the

IRS that 55,000 difference from the

300,000 to 245 I called them and asked

them if they could roll it over and they said once they issued the check there's

nothing that can be done who told them to issue the check not me apparently uh the the

company my father was work

for I didn't either didn't read I'm

sorry I didn't I didn't hear you you cut out apparently the company your father worked for what yeah they um they have a

five years plan I guess for the death

benefit that if it's not rolled over into something else within five years they must close the account and just issue a checkout it it's super confusing

the way they explained it to me I was on the phone with them for an hour and a half this morning with my

401k uh company and they pretty much

said once we issue the check there's nothing that can be done there was no work around yeah there is they had they had until just that's what I'm saying

yeah you I'm sure you don't have an extra 55 grand laying around no so the way it worked is my

account balance was 300,000 it started

at like 2115 and over the years I got it

up to 300 they issued me a check for 245

they already took the money out and sent it to the IRS and issued me the difference yeah have to withhold 20%

that's the rule if you if you take a

withdrawal but this is an involuntary withdrawal without no without any contact to you or anything which is

completely at a minimum unprofessional

what caused you to wait what caused you

to wait the five years as opposed to Rolling it over because the 401K plan my father was

invested in had really good options like

I built up all of those same options

exist in the open market yeah and I I have my own personal

investment accounts and do it with that as well the you know if you know Don't

Rock the Boat if the boat shouldn't be rocked so the way I figured is the 401K

plan was perfectly fine I kept it in there just because the investment options were fine it was just it's a retirement account I was treating it like a retirement account I wasn't going to touch it till I was 65 I'm 30 now

yeah what do you make there was uh I

make uh I'm a truck driver so I make

about 110,000 a year and I also own a

small business that I make about the

same okay under the secure act that

Biden passed you have 10 years to liquidate the 401K

completely you should have been liquidating it um at on10th a year from

the time the secure Act passed two years ago and you've not been doing that so um

I didn't know about that I know um the

uh so I'm I'm trying to figure out how

that plays into this and how hardcore

all right let's pretend that

we figure out a way to lean on them and

they cancel the check and put the money back into the 401K so

that you can roll it over within 30 days which is what they should do if they're

uh are people of Integrity this is a

problem it's not technically unethical

it's just so nasty that it ought to be

unethical uh what they've done it's a

big a lot of money it's going to cost

you it's going to cost you um you know

20 30,000 bucks and that you don't it

cost me two years it cost me two whole

years of of gains because of

this I never thought I would be upset to

get a huge check in the mail but I did

and well I'm upset because I should have

had it rolled over it should have been he should have called me yeah all right

so here's here's here's what I'm going to suggest you do and I don't think it'll work but it's the only thing I can

think of all right okay go to Ramsey

solutions.com and click on smartvestor

and find a smartvestor pro in your area

that you like after talking to them on the phone they may be able to call on your

behalf and uh talk them into undoing

this and immediately rolling it and they'll help you with the rollover okay they may be able to

site uh something that a regulation or

something that I'm not aware of um

because this is uh when you started

talking I thought you were going to tell me this was a tiny little 401k like a

$110,000 and they were just cleaning out

all the little ones sometimes they do that when a company sells or in the

event of an inherited 401k like you've

got um but this is huge this is a lot of

money and so this is part and with no

notification at all this is particularly

nasty and so I if they had simply

notified you you could have quickly rolled it over and avoided this right and they said they notified

me but I IIT a minute you're a truck

you're a truck driver you didn't they did notify you my

accounts they said they did but I never

got any notification so you've never seen evidence of them religiously yeah

ask ask them to prove that ask them to prove that they did okay okay so I mean I don't I don't

think you've got a basis for suing them but I'd be tempted

to I really would I mean cuz you're

talking about $25 or $30,000 cost here

that is unnecessary 55,000 they took out

they they it's the taxes on

55,000 the 55,000 is going to be taxed

not penalized no no they when I got my

uh experment uh like the summary of what

my original account balance was 300,000

they C me a check for 245 I understand

they took 55,000 they send it to the federal government as tax withholding

and it's not all taxable so the because

the entire because you're going to roll the rest of this if you take the check

in your hand and you roll it to a 401k

the only harm that's going to come to you is the taxes on the

55,000 which is going to be 15 grand or

20 grand oh so I'm GNA have to pay

another 15 grand honey you haven't paid

anything yet okay they

withheld your money 55,000 and sent it

to the federal government then what you

do is you file a tax return of what is

actually due and what will be actually

due is not 55,000 it'll only be the

taxes on 55,000 if you take the check in

your hand and put it into an IRA

traditional within 60 days of right now

so you need to get on the phone with a smartvestor pro right now because at

least we need to do that okay I will but

the so the worst case scenario if you

follow through on what I just told you is taxes on

$55,000 cuz the government has 55,000 of

your money as if you're going to get taxed on the whole thing and you're

not okay because you're going to roll

the portion in your hand which is 80% of

it into a traditional to keep you from

getting tax you got 60 days to do that

from the time withdrawal so folks you can pull your money out of 401k they have to withhold 20% but you

have to put 100% into an account within

60 days to avoid taxation that's what the problem he

can't do that because they got 55 of his money over at the IRS now and so if you

just take the take the 55 then you're

going to pay some taxes but not 55 so

there we go this is the Ramsey Show

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## 30. Debt Only Holds You Back, It Never Propels You Forward | January 15, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:49:26 |

---

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. And I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. And we'll be answering your calls. So give us a call at 888255225.

And we'll be talking about your life and your money. First up, we have Jimmy in

Los Angeles. Hi Jimmy. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel. Hey George. Big fan of y'alls. Uh thank you so much for what you do. Um, I really appreciate everything that you guys do and I've gained a lot of knowledge these past few weeks. Um, learning more about what you

guys do and how to kind of like financially plan my future, but I've kind of gotten myself into a sticky situation and um I'm just trying to see

if I can like maybe get some guidance on trying to find a way out. >> Sure. So, what's going on?

>> So, uh, late 2024, you know, I retired from the military. I served for 22 years

and uh earlier that year I decided to open up like a kind of like a shop and

um where we just do like detail services, paint protection, film wraps and things like that. And um yeah, it

actually cost me a lot of money throughout that year. >> I'm sure. How much? and to the point uh well, we're at a point now where we're like like $580,000 in debt at this point.

>> Okay. >> Um that first year we took like a $220,000 loss. Um admittedly, I think I

hired too many people full-time.

um kind of went in too fast and uh too

hard on that and um

>> yeah, it kind of really hurt me. So I ended take had to take like an SBA loan to kind of get caught up and used a bunch of credit cards and then the year after um we netted so just last year we

netted about 35% net loss. So, uh, we

had another net loss, but it was a better net loss. And, um,

>> and you're still throwing money at this thing. >> I'm still throwing money at this thing.

I mean, it seems like you're

>> Well, it seems like we're we're kind of like making a way out of that. And

>> I mean, what's what's the stop loss here? A million dollars in debt and then we'll call it quits. I mean, at some point, you just got to go, this ain't it. I would rather pack it up now versus try to It's like a gambler where they lost a bunch of money in Vegas and they go back to go like, well, now I got to win even bigger to get out of this mess,

>> right? That's what I was afraid of. And you know, through this process, I kind of been, you know, a free labor, so I haven't been getting paid by my business. >> On top of that, you're How are you paying your bills through more debt?

>> Um, >> do you have retirement through military?

>> I do. Okay. I do. >> What's that per month? >> My wife My wife works too.

>> Okay. >> Uh I pull in about 5,500 take-home per

month um from my military retirement and

she makes about >> she makes about like take home4500ish

per month. >> Okay. So 10 grand a month is what we're taking home. >> And that's that's the hard truth is that's the number we need to actually pay down this over half million dollars in debt.

Right. >> What does the trajectory look like for revenue?

>> Um, it's it's it's looking positive. Um,

because, you know, last year, like I said, even though we had a a net loss, um, it was a smaller net loss and I think this year we'll be in a positive, >> but I'm struggling because like I've been working for free for two years essentially in this business. >> Well, and digging deeper in debt. I mean, 35% loss. I mean, this is just a >> Yeah.

very expensive hobby at this point. This isn't a business. >> Even if it breaks even, this isn't worth it. >> No.

>> Right. Yeah. >> Um >> what I'm afraid of. >> Yeah.

Jimmy, what when you when you project

out what do you um with all these loans, how much is the is it half a million now or how much debt in general? I'm just trying to I'm trying to project out like what by I don't know in the next like month or two like how much total debt are you guys in?

>> So I've I've written everything down. So as it stands right now um on the

business side we're at $580,000 in debt.

Um I know I have a PhD in being a bozo.

Um >> how much of that's credit card and how much of that is small business loans?

Um, so 165,000 of that is credit and

then the rest is split up between SBA,

working capital, and a line of credit.

>> Okay.

Cuz I'm just thinking the credit cards, you know, if you get behind, those will be easier to settle than some of these loans directly, >> the SBA loan >> from the bank. >> What does your wife think about this? What does she think you should do?

>> Uh, she's not very happy with it. Uh but she's been very supportive and very understanding throughout the process. So an absolute blessing to me. Um definitely not an added stressor. She's she's been an anchor for me for sure. Um

>> yeah, I mean a little bit Jimmy, but a part of me also is like you guys aren't living in reality. Like she should be kind of flipping out. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I mean, I understand the the anchor of of feeling supported, but you're feeling supported and doing something that's continually getting you guys deeper and deeper into a problem versus saying, "Stop. Stop where we are and we're done because we can't just keep doing this." And the problem, too, is that the guesswork um for what you're

possibly going to do this year, I mean, you know what I mean? It's like you can't you can't predict it. And and so you guys either have to say we're going to try to stick this out for a year with no more debt. No more debt. And if that means we have to close up parts of the business in order to do that, okay, to see if we can get some revenue in here.

But you guys can't just keep digging yourselves in a hole and expect just to come out the other side.

>> Right. Right. >> So I would sit down and you guys I mean you either need to make a decision if you were to stop this completely. Do you guys have um things that you can sell

off in the business? Like is there any way that you could gain any of this money back if you were to close shop today from like a real estate perspective or like you know what I mean? Um >> equipment you have in the business?

>> Yeah, I have about $50,000 worth of equipment, but I I think that's tied up in the SBA loan. They they would have to you know I'd have to get permission to to sell that off to pay that loan down.

>> Yeah. And that's why I was like, worst case, you know, I I I I really want to

avoid bankruptcy. It's definitely not my first choice. And um I've even thought about getting like a job like so I can

just get some sort of income and then using that job to pay down this debt,

but since it's a business, I don't really want to like create murky waters with me paying off business debt with my own personal income. But >> it's all it's all tied to you anyways, Jimmy. >> Go back to the papers. Look who signed it. >> It's you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's all they're all going to come for you.

>> It's not like car detailer LLC. Well, they owe the money, not Jimmy, >> right? >> It's guaranteed by you. And so, that's the that's the hard news is you have to now picture this like it's just consumer debt that you took on.

>> And so, you're going to begin the business of cleaning it up. And I hope that you can find a new job uh that can

create a better income that will allow you to clean this up faster. But if you just even sell the 50 grand worth of equipment, that's 10% of your debt you just knocked out. And so you got to start making progress. I would not sink more money into this thing just to be 600,000 in debt, 650, and hope we have less of a net loss.

I'm heartbroken for you, man. Thank you for your service, too. 22 years. That's that's incredible. I hope you guys can climb out of this.

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Up next we have Caroline in Detroit. Hi

Caroline. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um, well, so I recently found out that my husband's been misusing his fund money to pay for communicating with a prison pen pal.

>> Oh. >> And >> sorry, did you say a prison pen pal?

>> Yes. >> Like a Is that a lady in prison?

>> Exactly. >> Did he know her before she was in prison?

>> No. I guess it was like some ads that

popped up, he said, on a site. So, he got in this cycle and he stopped. But

I'm wondering how do I move on from this financial and emotional infidelity now

and and trust?

>> Yeah. >> Did he come forward with it or did you catch him? Like where is he at with this? Um, so I I caught him because I uh found

some suspicious numbers on on our um phone bill and but he had been like

broke all the time like just waiting for, you know, couldn't wait for that next like fund money to come but had nothing to show for it. So I I couldn't figure things out. But >> th those uh yeah, I guess I guess it's it's a thing that people do and and he was kind of like trapped in it because I didn't know. So he couldn't tell me. He couldn't, you know, do his phone number.

I mean, he just >> No, he wasn't trapped. He was willfully doing this on his own valition.

>> Yeah, you're you're right. You're right.

Yeah. >> Nobody like was forcing him to continue this weird prison pen pal.

>> How long was the how long was the relationship for? Um, I'm embarrassed to

say I didn't figure it out for three years. >> Okay. And it was the same >> woman. >> Is this a scam or is this a real thing?

Cuz it feels like a scam.

>> So, it actually is a real thing that people are doing on like it I guess the

purpose of it is to get people to get out and communicate, you know.

>> So, who's making the money? The prison.

>> Everybody's paying.

>> Exactly. So then they're they're um so

they they use the money to put on their

records or to buy things in their commissary or who knows what else. Like I'm not really sure, but it it kind of like funds their money while while they're in prison. >> Commissary money.

>> Yeah. >> That is wild. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, that Yes. Okay. So, I

mean, from the financial standpoint, Caroline, are you guys Well, sorry, let me just back up for a second. Mhm.

>> When you found out, when did you confront him about this? How long ago was it?

>> Um, it's been

probably in the past, I would say, four

months. >> Okay. Are you guys working on your marriage actively right now? Are you seeing someone? Are you, you know, going to to therapy? What are you guys doing?

So, I was I was going to therapy and we

also had the complication um that um we

had a tree fall on our house. So, we were dealing with a hole in our marriage, a hole in our house. So, even if we wanted to like get divorced, sell the house, we couldn't because we're in we have this massive hole, right?

>> You know, going on. Um, I was talking to

somebody in counseling and he did I I just I was ready to get divorced and I

just said, "Hey, would you be interested in going like to church with me, you know, sometime?" And it was only because of his reaction of like how excited he he was to like try to go to church and know that >> I was maybe there was a way that I was willing to like >> to reconcile. Was he doing work on his own individually?

um just like through the church and I

know we're going to do a marriage retreat soon. He like I talked to him about counseling. He's willing but he's just like it's just so dark. It's just like and I told him like I need this in order to >> he said it's just so dark. Is that what you said? >> I'm sorry. >> He said what was his response when you said that he needs to go to counseling?

>> Oh it like the out he's like it won't be good. It's just so dark.

>> His story, like what what's in his head, like all of that. >> Um, I think just maybe of like the whole

truth coming out, like I maybe only know a portion of it because I wanted to know like what did this person go to prison for? Am I safe? How long are they in prison for? You know, >> if you guys are going to move forward, everything needs to come into the light.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a full it's a full disclosure situation that you guys need to sit down with a counselor to even move forward. There's no way you you can move forward with half the truth with your marriage. And George and I are not marriage experts. If Dr. John Deloney were here, I think he would completely agree with us on that. Um so

yeah, so this is a this is a rebuilding because of how deeply >> cut the trust has been in the marriage, right? I mean for >> for three years and and any given period of time, right? um when a spouse steps outside the marriage like that is that is painful and that is >> yeah something to really really be working on for both of you and the individual work for both of you. You having to learn to trust yourself again for him to face some of his demons and to understand what work he needs to be doing.

I mean yeah there's there's a lot of repair that has to happen regardless of if the marriage survives. So I'm just saying individually to be two healthy people that's what you guys need and then moving forward out of that if you get the whole truth and you still decide yes I want to be in this marriage then yes then there's all the repair work within the marriage but from an emotional side um it's definitely going to take some individual work and then I would say from the financial I would definitely have have a I would be separating finances does he work and do you work do you both bring in a paycheck?

>> Yes. >> Okay.

>> Um, we were, but because we were working the baby steps, he was doing it with his fund money. >> So, he just was going >> But where was the >> But the fund money is it is the fun money in y'all's checking account.

>> Um, well, we would take it out cash.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, right now we're at the point that I'm like, in order for me to trust >> Yeah. >> your fund money is going to have to be >> tracked. It tracked >> 100%. Yes. Oh, I think that's totally fair. >> I would also pull his credit report and then freeze his credit on top of that.

So, we want to pull the credit report to make sure there's no outstanding debts that maybe you don't know about >> and to get a clear picture of what's out there and then freeze his credit so he can't open any new accounts.

>> And that's just one stop gap to make sure that there's no more financial infidelity outside of what's even in your checking account.

>> Okay? Okay. >> But I would have transaction alerts set up. So you get a text message every time a scent comes out of that bank account.

You get a transaction alert. Even if it's just his account right now if you separate.

>> Yeah. Because there has to be some steps, some visible evidence for trust to be rebuilt in the situation, Caroline. So that's not you being overcontrolling or like being his mom, right? Some some marriages can function so dysfunctionally um with money where

like one person just has all the control and has to give everything and the other one doesn't know any passwords, all that. I'm not talking about that. This is there was a there was broken trust within the marriage. Money was involved in it as it usually is. And because of that, in order to rebuild trust, I have to know exactly where the money's going.

I need every account just like his phone records. I need every account of your phone records. Like there has to be a level of of knowledge for you to keep

moving forward in this marriage when it comes to building trust.

>> Okay? >> And I know I'm I'm really tempted. I know he didn't, you know, I know he

didn't steal money from you guys and all of that, but because it was allocated to him. Um, but I I mean, there's almost a

part of me until you know that the marriage is going to survive this, I

almost would just have my own checking account, Caroline, and then but he has to be showing you his transactions out of his.

But I'm just scared that that something else is going to come up and you're going to find whether there's more on the on the infidelity side um with the

relationship or even more financially uncovering some stuff >> cuz you caught him and he still is not telling you the whole truth. And that's the scary part is we just don't know how much more damage there is.

>> And so because of that, I would just be on the cautious defensive side right now to protect yourself.

>> Okay. And then action plus time plus counseling plus God. That's going to be the only solution to rebuild this trust and restore this marriage.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry, Caroline. That is like it's so heartbreaking. So heartbreaking. And what's wild are these calls, George, we get we get pretty consistently. uh whether it's a marriage that you know one one of the two have

you know made poor choices but even from the financial infidelity side of taking money and doing things that the spouse didn't know about. >> Yeah. >> Um it's becoming more and more common.

So um again yeah the best line of defense Caroline is you work on you. He needs to work on him and you guys moving forward with all the truth out to decide what are we going to do.

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let's head to William in Athens,

Georgia. Hi, William. Welcome to the show.

>> How are you doing today? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Okay. I am 63 years old. I'm retired. Uh

I am debtree.

Uh I own my own home. And then of course

my wife, she we she's got about 20 acres that we own. You know, we don't owe for anything. Um >> for you guys >> and I have and I have a large sum of

money. I have never invested in anything

all my life except my 10% to the Lord.

Um, so I don't know what to do with this

money I got. It's just sitting in a plain old uh >> savings account. Okay. How much money is it, William?

>> Uh, it's a little over 400,000.

>> 400,000. Okay. And is that what you're living off of monthto monthth or do you guys have good retirement or social security?

>> No, I I have a pension that comes in every month. Okay. uh which covers

pretty much all my expenses, which my wife still works and you know she makes a good salary. >> So you guys are living off of what's coming in. You're not having to touch this 400,000.

>> That's right. It's just been sitting there year after year after year after year, which now my pension check is going into my savings and it's been

doing that for like four years and I've never touched it. So that's why it just keeps building and building and building and I don't know what to do with it. Uh >> are you calling us because you're ready to invest now? It seems like there was a maybe a fear or a hesitance to do that in the past.

>> Well, you know, when you come up poor, you know, you just always feared about taking big risks. So, uh but I had

talked to the bank about, you know, maybe, you know, doing a CD. And then uh

they talked about well maybe you can go another way and put it in an annuity. Uh

you know >> I wouldn't do that and that's just a more expensive product that gives them more commissions in their pocket. That's the truth. >> Right. Well, right. That and that was kind of my concern because that ties it up for three years.

>> Yeah. you know, so uh >> well, there's a way you can invest this money and have it grow for you. Because the truth is there is more risk of it just sitting in a checking account than there is if it's invested wisely >> cuz right now inflation has been eating up that 400 grand for years now.

>> Yeah. You probably haven't kept up with inflation with the >> savings account because your um what you're making on that is what less than 1% sometimes in some savings accounts.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So it's not even keeping up with them. So your money is actually kind of technically in value has gone down.

Yeah, it's gone down in a sense.

>> Um so yeah, so investing I understand William. Yeah, it feels um it feels risky and I think there's ways that you can invest that is risky and then there's ways that are very wise and um

yeah and that it the risk is just not there. Right. So, if you're talking about like single stocks, um if you're talking about something like cryptocurrency or whatever, right, there's some more definitely risky type ways that you can put this money, but also there's a lot that um is is

actually very safe because you can look at the the history of the fund and be

able to somewhat predict, okay, if the US economy continues to do well, and again, some years is down, some years is up, but it's not this like drastic change over time and you can kind of,

you know, you really can look at the pattern over time and say, "Okay, this one feels right." And if the US economy all crashes and burns and you lose all the money, I think there's probably more problems that we're going to have than just thinking about right that that money in the account. So, uh, William, the the first thing I would do is talk to an investment professional because what they can do is educate you and guide you and you can do that at ramiesolutions.com. Click on start investing on our website and that will connect you with someone who can help you manage this money wisely.

>> and what is which is that >> in the Bible? The parable of the talents. It's a great read. I highly recommend it.

Go check it out after this. And I hope it encourages you to steward this money in a way that helps it to grow so that you can retire with dignity, leave a legacy, and even create generational wealth. Because if you just leave this money in an average mutual fund or index fund, it would double in seven years. So on your 70th birthday, there's 800 grand sitting there.

And you did diddly.

You just left it. >> And William, I'll say this too. You know, we talked to some, you know, we talked to a lady, this was a few months ago. She was in her 90s and she was just scared to death to invest her money.

I mean, it would keep her up at night. And I'm like, you know what? You're 90 years old. Solve for peace.

If that stresses you out, you're fine. You know what I mean? But you're 63, William. You got a long life to live.

You could easily be living another 30 years.

yes, be very much considering investing and go talk to someone um that has the heart of a teacher, one of our Smartves investor pros, because genuinely you and I want you to feel comfortable with it, okay? But I do want you to learn something new for how this money can actually, like George said, double in size, continue to grow so that you can leave an even bigger bigger legacy versus living in this fear of the unknown. All right, let's go to is it Esmeralda? Beautiful name in Sacramento.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much for having me.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help?

>> So, I am a firsttime mom. My daughter's

going to be turning one on February 23rd

and I am planning to go to

Miami for her birthday celebration

because all my family lives there and my husband he doesn't have family out here in California. It's just us. So, I figured why don't we go to Miami to celebrate since my family out there haven't really had time to spend with her. Mhm. >> The only the only thing I'm kind of wondering now is is it too much money?

Is it even worth it with how much money we're making and how much money we have saved? And would it be too late to cancel? >> Okay. How much how much is the trip going to be total?

>> So, for the flight, I'm looking we already paid for the flight, but we did get refundable tickets and that came out

to a total of 6.372.

>> Okay. And where are you guys at financially?

>> I have I mean we have $7,700

saved and right now in my checking

account in our checking account we have

$1,300.

>> Okay. How much debt do you guys have

>> right now? It's only $200. It's from a T-Mobile payment that >> my um that my friend at the time opened

the account under my name and we don't talk anymore, but it's just that bill $200. We took care of the credit card debt when um my husband started listening to Dave Ramsey and >> Good. >> Yeah. So, no no car loan, no lease, no student loan, none of that.

>> No, I didn't go to college. Neither did he. And he paid his car off with cash.

>> Good for you guys. How much you guys make a year?

a year. Let me see.

>> Just ballpark. >> 45,000.

>> 45,000 a year.

>> Okay. And is is he just working? Are you home?

>> Yeah, I'm a stay at home mom and he's working. >> Okay. Um, Esmer. Yeah. I mean, it

doesn't bother. No, I mean because that's all you guys are. You're basically doing flights. You're going to stay with family, right? You're not going to have hotel costs or anything.

>> No, we're staying with family. Yeah.

What does the birthday consist of?

>> Right now, we're paying like a car

rental. >> Okay. >> And I was going to purchase a mini

bounce house for her with the ball pit and um cars parking. So, when we drive

to the airport, we can leave the car parked there because we don't have family out here that could drive us.

>> Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I would >> And that came up to $1,000. So, I would I would I would put this in the umbrella

of like we're going to go see family versus making it a first birthday kind of thing cuz that almost is going to add more expenses from the emotional. >> You could easily climb to two grand out of just let's just have fun and let's get the bounce house. >> I would just say let we want to visit our family. So, either you can do that now with these plane tickets.

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>> Today's question comes from Kathy in Utah. I'm 70 years old and considering buying a house with a 15-year loan. If I pass away before the term of the loan is completed, what happens to the debt? I'm not married and don't have kids. Why shouldn't I borrow $500,000 knowing I may die before it's paid off? Well, that's the spirit, Kathy.

I mean, one, just integrity. I guess that's a good start, character.

But the the point of your question, if I pass away before the term's completed, what happens to the debt? Well, your estate quote unquote would pay for it, which is any assets that you own. Your the the lender would go after those first to try to pay down the debt as much as they could and then I guess they would just take on the the debt and

>> yeah, they just because that's that is the understanding that when you die,

your debt does not necessarily die with you. To a point it does, but they will.

Yes. Factor in all the assets you have.

So if you did die with credit card debt, car loan, you know, all the things, then you they you you know, you technically have owed that money. So if you have any money to your name or any assets, yes,

they are going to deplete those in order to pay the debt and then whatever's remaining will go to family um of your

estate. But again, the bank owns the

house. So they'll sell the house for what they can get for it, use that money to pay off the mortgage. And so >> that's what they would do. >> The bank just got a a free house.

So, uh, I think they might have got the better end of the deal, >> but >> yeah. Uh, but also Kathy, what if you what if you keep living? You know, >> I mean, you're renting at 70. I don't know anything else about your financial situation.

Do you have a million dollars in cash? Are you broke?

Uh, but >> buying a house knowing that you could live another 20 or 30 years is a good bet. >> And so, if you are in a financial spot to do it, I would do it.

All right, let's head to Dorothy in Manchester, New Hampshire. Hi, Dorothy.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, I need to know if it if I should do

an additional $20,000 on a heliloc to

pay off my car, which is at 12%.

And I owe 23,000. And I have one credit

card at $1,800 at 18%.

But my HELOC is currently I have $20,000

out on it cuz I had to have a emergency furnace. Um and it's only 6%.

But um long story short, I went through

a bad divorce to be was homeless. Um

>> Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. lo lost

everything. Um, my ex stole all of our

joint bank account, left me with $3 and

I worked for the government for 20 years and I had to retire. Um, move out of

town. Um, but the new job that I have is

lower pay, but since 2019, I've been

trying to rebuild and like I said, I got a house. Well, I bought a condo before

the housing market. I have $100,000 in

equity. I bought it for 162. It's worth now over 22.

>> How much are you making now, Dorothy, with your job?

>> $27 an hour.

>> Okay.

>> And what does that come what does that come out to like per month? What are you bringing home?

>> 4200. >> Okay. >> 4200. Okay. Y. And that's enough to

cover all your bills and cover the minimum debt payments.

>> Um, what I have is my loan is 1,223,

my HOA is 300, my car payment is 464,

insurance is 250, my lights are 100, heat 100, um, TV, internet 128, and my

phone is 45. >> So, what what margin do you have left after all of that?

Um, I've been making all my payments and

I've been also making my $157 heliloc.

Um, and I've been putting $30 a week um

toward my principal of my mortgage every

week cuz 30 bucks is, you know, cup of

coffees or whatever. And uh that's all

that I have is just that credit card and my car payment. >> Okay. So what I would say Dorothy that the secret of getting out of debt is not moving debt around and trying to get a better interest rate. The secret is you.

So honestly you kind of getting into

this next gear which you've already made incredible progress like the story you told us at the beginning of the call of you know being homeless and I mean like man >> the fact that you're still standing with shelters a miracle. >> You have made huge strides. So no I

would not >> I was driving four hours to work and back. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a long time.

Um, so what I would say is the magic of

getting out of debt, if there is quote unquote, it's you. So, you deciding, hey, I'm going to cut where I can. I may even take on an extra job. You have the work ethic and I'm going to clean this debt up.

When you move it around interest rate wise, over the long term, o like if you had this for 15, 16 years, then yeah, we could probably talk about it. that you can actually, you know, the short-term life of this debt because you're going to pay it off so quickly. I wouldn't fool with it. I wouldn't fool moving it around.

And I think it kind of gives this false sense of security of, oh gosh, it just feels better that all my debts in one place or that it's a better, you know, interest rate here and there. But again, that's not going to solve you getting out of debt. It's going to be you. >> It didn't change any of the behavior.

We just moved it around and put it in a different junk closet. And the other thing is you're moving from unsecured debt to a secure debt. that home is collateral and so it puts you at even further risk. >> And so like Rachel said, the solution is you.

And that means we got to get on a written plan.

We're going to save up a $1,000 starter emergency fund to stop those ankle biter emergencies. You have that in place. Do you have any other savings?

>> No. >> Okay. What is the car worth? You owe 23 on it.

>> Um, it's brand new. It's a 2025.

>> Wow.

Well, that might be something you could sell for a pretty penny. Could you sell it for almost what you got for it?

>> Actually, I got it three months ago. So, yeah, I probably could >> because what I'm seeing is that clears your debt journey in half.

>> Yeah, because see, then I could put everything of that car payment and um

>> you know, so forth toward the the

emergency of the HELOC for my furnace and stuff. But, I mean, You'll still need another car to drive >> that I have.

>> So, you'll need to save up a little bit of money. >> New job that I have. Yeah. The the new job that I have, I don't I live 2

minutes away versus 4 hours because like I said, I was driving from Vermont to

>> Portland, Maine every single day, working my eight hours and going back to back home. >> Gosh. Well, that's not a sustainable life. So, I'm so glad that it's close.

So, >> you saying you could go without a car for for a short season?

I could actually go with I I don't even fill my car maybe once a month, maybe once and a half and I'm not >> I'm just curious, Dorothy, what caused you what caused you to buy it?

>> Um because the fact just I wanted to have a forever car where I pay this off and that would be it. Gotcha.

>> Because I don't believe in leasing or anything like that and um

>> you know where I only had just my credit card but then that was it. the furnace

up. >> Well, let me tell you, an 8-year-old, 10-year-old Honda Civic, that'll last you another 10 years while you save on the side and then you could upg

your next car to be a forever car. I really wouldn't. I think that that causes this debt in this $500 payment a month. >> It's easy to justify when you go, "Well, I'm going to pay it off and I'll have it forever." That's how we make bad decisions financially.

>> And then when you're in the tactical side of your month, then you're like, "Oh crap, look at all this money going and look at how much debt now I've accumulated." So, um, so yeah, I would try to get out of this car, Dorothy, for sure.

of your annual take-home pay. And it's and yours is yours is there. So, >> $25,000 car making 50 grand.

>> Yeah. You're tight. Right on that edge.

So, if I were you, I would Yep. I'd get rid of it. Go buy something new used if you need it. But maybe for a season, like you said, if you really can go without it for a few months, save that car payment, >> free up 500 bucks, throw another thousand on top of that, you'll be debtree in 18 months.

>> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. There's some there's some moves you can make here, Dorothy, to really change it.

But I wouldn't move the debt around in the Heliloc. I would make some big changes like what you're talking about. And I know you can because you have in your life, and you're incredible.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel.

>> Honored to be here. >> We are here to take your calls. It's a little different than Smart Money Happy Hour. >> Different vibe. Yeah, >> we don't take calls on Smart Money. So that the vibe is generally a little more positive and upbeat because people aren't going through crisis on that show. >> No, but we are. That's why we're here though for this show to help you with your problems to celebrate the victories. So give us a call at 888255225.

All right. To kick us off this hour in Salt Lake City, we have Phil. Hi Phil.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, uh, it it's recently come to my attention that, uh, my oldest brother has been stealing money from my parents.

>> Oh, cool. >> What started off as borrowing gas money has turned into lying his way into a massive car loan in my mom's name, stealing credit cards without my parents' knowledge. And uh, so my parents have more than $100,000 in debt

now, and that's not even including their mortgage. They're both almost in their 70s. My mom's on disability. My dad has 40,000 in his 401k and they think that's a lot.

And I'm just I I just don't see a way that he's ever going to be able to retire. And I understand that me and my wife are not financially responsible for them, but I'm trying to walk through this with them, but I I'm no expert and every time I learn more about their financial situation, I see less and less of a solution other than bankruptcy.

>> Yeah. So, two different paths. I mean, if you're going to go like full on, he

he has stolen. Did he um did he forge signatures like for the car loan? How did that happen?

>> So, from what I could gather, it seems like he's lying to my mom on what she is signing and then gets her to sign something without her reading what it actually is.

>> Well, crap. Cuz I was going to say, >> so they took this to court. They like, "Ma'am, that's your signature, right?" And she's like, "Yeah, >> but I just didn't read the document." And that's her fault. I mean, to a degree. I think I mean do you know what I'm saying? Like there's a level of responsibility that she did not take.

>> I mean it's really elder abuse is what this is. That's probably your best case.

>> Exactly. Fraud and elder abuse. That's what I'm trying. Yeah. If they would Yeah. If they would take legal action that's what it would be. Um but I'm scared for I don't know.

>> Yeah. I mean first I would freeze their credit yesterday so that no more accounts did all that.

>> I would also contact every lender on that credit report and say hey this was fraud. This is elder abuse. this guy took out all of these loans without the permission, you know, he basically coaxed them into it. And so then we go from there. I mean, do they still have contact with this brother?

>> Uh, >> do they know about this?

>> They they know about it. Um, my mom just had a stroke last week, so this is all adding to it. So, >> my gosh, Phil, >> this dude is like the scumber of all scumbers. To this to his own parents.

>> Yeah. And Yeah. And and we're trying to find him right now. He's he's been on crystal meth before, so I'm not shocked that this is uh having that involved again.

Um so, uh we're trying to find him and figure that out cuz he has the truck. He has there's also an RV that has $250,000 on it that I think is in his dad's name. That's it's a whole ordeal. So, I just and and I'm worried that my parents aren't going to file any kind of charges, which is hard to >> How do you do that to your firstborn son?

You know, I get that.

>> Yeah, >> that's the scary part. >> And so, >> and it's and it's a loan, Phil, right?

So, the problem is too, if Yeah. So, if

he stops paying and that truck gets repoed and all that's in your mom's name, I mean, it'll all be on her.

They're going to come after her for it.

>> Is he even making the payments?

>> Uh, he has not made a single payment.

No. So, I mean, are there have they repoed this? I guess you don't even know.

>> He he does still uh he does still have

the truck actually.

>> I mean, yeah. I don't know. I don't know how long he's going to have it for, but like >> I call the repo man on it.

>> Yeah. And if you can find him. So, is he disappeared?

>> Well, he he turned off all of his location services once he figured out that I caught on to him.

>> Have you filed a police report?

I believe I told my mom that she needs to. I don't know that she has yet. Um I I actually found his location this morning through his daughter. Um and so

I'm trying to >> I'm trying to figure out what I need to do, but >> Yep. Okay. So, the hard position you're in, and correct me if I'm wrong, >> it sounds like you are doing all the proactive work in this situation. You're worrying about your parents.

You're trying to find your brother. you're telling your parents what they should do. Like you're kind of the one heading up all of this and none of this is your issue. I understand it's your parents and you love them.

So like I'm just saying from a top tier perspective, the hard place that's going to happen for you, Phil, is you're going to have a wonderful, logical game plan because you're a smart, reasonable person, and you're going to say, "Mom and dad, you need to do A, B, C, and D.

they're coming after you for these charge, and this and this, and this is going to happen, and you know, you're going to have a plan laid out of what should be happening.

and in any common sense scenario and the problem is if they choose not to move forward that's their fault you know that that that's their decision it's not yours and you can't make them do something or even convince them to change their mind um so I think it's going to be a discouraging situation for you Phil here in the next few months because I think you're going to realize my parents are probably naive because you're he's been on drugs and still are signing papers for him right I mean like I would be going through a you know, going through like, oh my gosh, so detailed if if that was me.

But, um, >> they need to be as angry as we are, >> and they're not. >> And they're just like, well, I guess it is what it is. Like, what is their response right now?

>> Well, I mean, my mom feels horrible that she didn't see this coming sort of thing, but she doesn't really have the health to to take this on. And my dad has not done anything financial in the their entire marriage. He just doesn't know anything about it. He doesn't want to know anything about it.

So, >> so your dad is just sitting there. Well, >> yeah. I don't I don't know that my dad even knows to the extent of what how much debt he has. He just goes to work, makes a paycheck, and comes home. That's all he ever does. >> Y >> um my mom has always handled the finances and now she's she's learned

about some of this stuff uh in the past and hasn't told my dad about it and now it's blown up to way more than I thought it would ever be. >> Yeah. How much debt do are they in personally besides all the stuff that your brother brought in?

I would say not including their mortgage, they probably have anywhere from like 15 to 20,000. Okay. And that's a car loan and various credit cards.

>> Okay. And how much are they making a year?

>> I don't know exactly. Yeah.

>> Um but my guess would be anywhere from like 60 to 70,000 because it's just my dad. My mom is on disability. Doesn't know much from that. >> Yeah.

>> Wow. >> If you're going to be involved, you're going to have to get financial power of attorney to actually make any moves. And that might be wise based on how things have been going with your dad not being involved. Mom had the stroke.

I think now's the time to have some really hard conversations about the future. >> Yeah. So I think Phil, I mean because I I I I feel that burden right in the sense of like you you see what's going on and they don't. So I almost would just have a meeting, sit them both down and tell them, hey, this is exactly what the situation is.

I need to know numbers. I want to be able to help you and let's make a game plan. And then it would be up to them to be the ones executing it unless they want your help in doing so. But, um, I mean, I would give a latch, you know, a lastditch effort to try to do what I can to help them see and know what's going on.

But, unless they give you the power to do something, they're going to have to be the ones that, you know, make those decisions. And I I don't know if they will. Um, and that's hard.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team just fix it and they did.

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All right, let's head to Dave in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi Dave, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, my wife and I are planning on to retiring between 3 and 5 years. And I

just feel with our total portfolio that were househeavy. We always had planned

on downsizing once we retired, but I'm

wondering if you think we should do that now and then invest that extra money.

>> Okay. Yeah. How much um how much is the house worth?

>> 650. Okay. And how much mortgage do you have left on it?

>> It's paid off. >> It's paid off. Okay. And how much do you guys have in retirement?

>> Well, it's 650 right now.

>> 650. Okay. And how old will you guys be

in 5 years?

>> I will be uh 67. She'll be 65.

>> Okay.

>> What's your game plan currently to retire? Because the house obviously is not going to produce income in retirement. It's great to have it paid off and I'm proud of you guys for doing that. But what's your current game plan regardless of what happens with the house?

>> Uh where we're going to get our funds from. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, from the 650 which will grow

plus I have a small pension and then our social security. >> Okay. So between pension, social security, and then on top of that you'll dip whatever else you need you can dip into that retirement nest egg.

>> Right. >> Okay. And you're saying, do you have too much tied up in the house? Are you guys wanting to downsize anyways?

>> Yeah, we we always planned on downsizing and then maybe, you know, we could clear

600 on this and I know I can find something for 400. So that gives us

200,000 >> to throw in there. >> That would that would give me some >> uh you know, some cushion. And so I would be doing that if you're going, hey, I don't know that we can make it for the rest of our life with this nest egg plus the pension and social security. I think it would be wise to sell use any profits to invest to then create a little mini nest egg on its own. >> Do do it now versus wait until we

retire. >> I mean, you can wait. You'll you know, either way, the house is appreciating, right? As time goes on, your your nest egg is appreciating and so it's okay to wait. This is not I wouldn't say this is on fire, but the sooner you do it, the more the less variables you'll have.

You'll kind of have more on paper to to know when you can retire.

>> Sure. Okay, great. That makes sense.

>> Yeah. Dave, how much will you guys be getting in a month with your pension and social security?

>> Um, at that point uh 452

62 about 7,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys need to live off of per month? I think we

figured 84. So that would be about that.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um well that's great. Yeah. I was going to say because you know when you do when you do just the quick math let's say you added $200,000 to that would be $850,000

and in you just think every seven years it doubles if you don't touch it. Um which you guys will be retiring in five years. So it's a little less than that but I mean you'll have upwards over a million for sure by the time you guys hit retirement age. and that and a payoff.

>> If you're if you're taking out, you know, your 18 grand a year to float the difference, you're talking 1% >> yep, >> of your nest egg. And so it's going to grow in perpetuity. You know, the balance will continue to grow. So >> you guys will be good.

>> I'm not concerned about that at all at the current with your current plan, >> right? >> And if you love the house, you could probably stay in it and still make this work. There just might be a few sacrifices down the line, but I think you guys will will figure that out. the pension, social security.

That's That's awesome. >> For sure. Absolutely. Thanks, Dave, for the call.

And well done. Well done. I mean, yeah, right there. Baby steps millionaires.

>> You can retire. >> It's awesome. >> With a paid for house and some money in the bank. >> So great. All right, let's head to Isabelle in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Isabelle.

>> Hi, guys. >> Hello. How can we help today? question.

My question for you guys is that I'm on baby step number two and I have about $6,900 in credit card debt and 9K on my

car loan.

>> And I'm wondering if I should take all of my investments in stocks, which total to be about $6,800, and pay off my

credit card knowing that I don't have any retirement at this moment.

>> Are is the What are the stocks? Are they in are they in like a 401k or your Roth or is just single stocks out there? The 6,800?

>> Just single stocks that um total up to 6,800s. >> Okay. Yes, I would I would cash those out. Um because How old are you?

>> I'm 25. >> Okay. Yeah, you have plenty of time for retirement and the $6,800 is going to be better spent valuewise by getting you out of a hole financially and helping pay off this debt. And then you'll be building up an emergency fund. And then Isabelle, you'll start investing 15% of your income, which I think you're going to be able to do here in the next, you know, 18 months, two years.

>> Yeah. What's left on the car loan?

>> Uh just under 9,000.

>> Okay. 16,000.

>> I make 60 roughly 63,000 a year.

>> Amazing. Yeah. So, after you cash it out, you'll have to pay some taxes on some of it, but you know, let's say you, you know, could pay it off and you're around 10 grand. Um >> Mhm. >> You know, you can make it a goal to pay pay off that 10 grand in golly, five months. >> Yeah. >> You know, four months. Get aggressive. >> Get aggressive. Get an extra job. Pay it off. Then build up an emergency fund >> of if if if you're are you single?

>> I am. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would just do a three-month emergency fund. Whatever your expenses are, just multiply it by three and just say, "Yep, that's my emergency fund." And then when you start investing, Isabelle, if you start investing, by the time you're 27, 28,

um, it's going to be it's going to be unbelievable. Let's say, um, let's say pretend that Yeah, George is getting his calculator for us. So, let's just say you stayed at 60 $63,000 a year,

Isabelle, which you won't. Your income will grow over time. So, you're making an amazing income right now. That's going to be um what is it?

>> 69,400 a year. 787 per month is what you

would be investing. Let's say by by Christmas if you can get through this plan, get rid of all the debt, get the emergency fund, then you can begin investing. You have zero in retirement, right? >> Correct. >> All right. Get ready for this. >> Let's go. Should we go 26 to 60? When do you turn 26?

>> Um in August.

>> Perfect. Okay. So, you'll be 26. So, 26 to 66, you would have $5 million. And

that's based on a 10% return, which is what we've seen in the stock market for the last several decades.

>> Okay. >> Yep. So you'll have five five million bucks, Isabelle. You'll you'll be great.

>> And if you wanted if you want to retire at 62, you'll have 3.3 million.

>> Okay. >> And that's if your income doesn't go up.

>> That's if you never get a raise your whole life. >> That's crazy. Like that's so wild. And then you're going to, you know, maybe meet someone. You're going to double the income. You know what I mean? You just keep it going as life goes.

>> Get a house. get the house paid off, invest even more. So, you're going to be multi-millionaire if you stop playing the the game of a broken financial system, which is I got to get a credit card to get a credit score. Whoops, I carried a credit card balance. Well, I guess I need a nice car. I have a big girl job now. I got a payment to go along with that. If you can just put blinders on and not care what anyone else thinks about your financial plan, you will be unbelievably wealthy.

>> Awesome. Well, thank you guys.

>> Absolutely. Well done. Yeah, that's always uh that's always an encouraging call when you get someone in their early 20s and you're like, look, >> you still have so much time. >> You have so much time. I mean, seriously, like it is it is wild. And not that you know, those of you in your, you know, 60s and 70s, like start now,

right? If you've not started, like there there's always the point to start, but especially young people out there in your 20s, man, the the idea of compound

interest is insane. Like the amount of money that actually went to principal. Does it say that, George? It shows you how much she contributed. So like we'll go with our example 26 to 666. So a 40-year period of you investing that's 7.87 a month.

>> In that she would contribute 377,000.

That's how much of her own dollars went in there. And the growth was 4.6 million

on top of that. >> So that's what's crazy. So the earlier you start I mean honestly it's it is wild. But it does >> over 90% of that nest egg was her just

investing and leaving it alone. >> Yes. And George, you know what? It's the consistency month after month regardless.

We are doing this. We're not letting up. It is just a rhythm of life now. When you get to that point, it's just part of it.

You don't stop. And then and that, you know, you don't get caught up, I don't think, in all the the lifestyle creep and all the you know what I mean? Like there's so many things that can take you off this plan that look shiny and fun and exciting and you can still have a great life while doing this.

I am in my 60s, I'm taken care of and by me, not by the government or waiting on something else, that that you do it. And you have the power, everyone out there, you have the power to do it.

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The fun of uh doing a live show is your

co-host may spontaneously uh jump in the

uh control room and make faces and all

of it and then you say, "You know what? Actually get in the studio." Ken Cole tell my secret. Welcome our special guest and correspondent >> to be here for this segment and it's actually a perfect segment for you because something hit the news.

>> Oh boy. >> Uh recently that we were going to talk about >> in the news. >> Yes. CBSNnews.com reports that Trump has

floated a 10% credit card interest rate

cap. So here's what this could mean for

consumers. So Trump came out and basically was like >> on Truth Social. So this was not like an executive order. This is just him on social media making >> saying credit card companies should just max their interest rates at 10%. Because

now it can go I mean as high as 36%

right. So it's in the 20s. I mean like >> I think average is 25% APR right now.

>> Yeah. So it is pretty wild where it is.

Um all right. >> So here here's the what this could do.

Vanderbilt research found that a 10% cap would save Americans hundred billion a year in interest. I mean think about that. We're the nation is $1.2 2 trillion in credit card debt. That's wild. So 10% means the credit card companies will only make $120 million off consumers this year from the interest alone. That's not swipe fees.

That's not annual fees. So let's do the math. You got a $5,000 balance, you'd pay about $42 a month in interest at 10%. But at 24%, which is closer to the average, $100 a month. So that really would help a lot of Americans who are struggling with this credit card debt.

>> Yeah. But the reality is, >> let's go to reality now. The reality is he can't do that. I mean, >> he can't just truth it into existence.

Uh, nor should he. This is when when when presidents decide in free market

economies to start doing things like this and forcing free markets to do

things, you get Venezuela, you get Cuba.

So, everybody just needs to understand this all sounds good until you look at the constitutionality of it. Is it a free market policy? That's first point.

But I tell you what came to mind when I first saw this. As you guys know, I play a lot of pickle ball. Play for three hours tonight. Thankfully, my knees are in good shape. But the knee analogy came

to mind when I heard this. Uh if someone has a torn meniscus, uh you can get away with not having surgery and you might put a knee brace on. And the knee brace is somewhat helpful. So George, you just laid out beautifully how 10% at a cap would be

very helpful. I don't want to gloss over people that are hurting right now. I don't want to be insensitive. Yeah. >> So, it's like a knee brace. >> Yeah. >> But here's the thing. >> The meniscus isn't going to heal. The knee brace just helps a little bit. It doesn't solve the problem. And and this doesn't solve the problem, which is Americans have a taste for debt. And it's not

going to solve the problems. The debt snowball solves the problem. The baby

steps solve the problem. Uh lowering your interest rate doesn't solve the problem. How many times we get a call like should I move my debt around and we So for that reason uh this feels like politics to me and he's he has every right to tweet or truth or whatever he wants to do. It's uh I think it's posturing and I did this when Biden was president. I don't care who the party is. I'm going to call strikes. I'm going to call balls. And this isn't going to solve the credit debt problem. Yeah.

>> That's a good reminder. This is for one year. So this cat was for one year.

>> So then what? >> It's not law. It's not. It's not even an executive order. He can't do that. It would have to be Congress rewriting federal law. There have to be a bill in place. Everyone has to agree, >> which I'm for that if Congress does it.

>> And we're talking about banks which make billions and billions of dollars. They're going to find a way to get their money. >> Well, what they'll do is raise annual fees. They will fee you to death and they'll make their money elsewhere. >> Banks are not like, >> "Oh, you're right. You know what? That would help people 10%." We didn't even think We didn't even think about that. Thank you, Trump. >> You're so right, Rachel. They have they have lobbyist they have the best lobbyists in the world. Do you think that legislation is gonna pass?

>> No. >> And of course, here's the best part. JP Morgan CFO is saying this is going to hurt people, guys. We can't do this.

It's going to hurt people who need credit the most cuz what this means is tighter lending. >> These credit card companies aren't going to lend to the subprime borrowers. And so, he's saying it's going to actually hurt everyone. >> Oh, you two are gonna love this one.

You're gonna love this one. I saw this on uh Twitter. >> Yeah. >> By the way, I refuse to call it X.

>> Thank you. Uh, somebody came out the day that this was this came out, I saw this. They were like, "Well, what people don't realize is is if they lower that interest rate." How where do you think all the points come from? It comes, which is right, by the way.

>> Yes. >> The point system is built on people, all of it, >> who aren't paying their debt off and every month they're paying 22%. And that's where the miles and the >> going to happen.

>> Guys, the banks are smarter than you.

>> There's no free lunch. Have you ever heard that phrase? >> Yes. There's no free lunch.

The only way to make this better is to pay off the debt like we preach >> is to get rid of it. >> It's so true. Here's a fun fact. Credit card rates are protected under federal law.

It's called National Bank Act. It's locked in by a Supreme Court ruling from 1978. And what this does, the ruling, this is crazy. It lets banks charge whatever rate is allowed in the state they're based in.

So, guess where credit card companies go?

So they can just go. >> It's like a loophole where they go, "Well, we can we can charge 36%."

>> So Delaware and South Dakota are the only two states in the country where there are no caps. >> No rate caps. And that's where all the credit override that without Congress rewriting federal law. And so there's no bill right now, which means >> and the reason that passed in the in the 70s was what? To give the free market and the banks to be able to to have a free market economy.

>> Um I mean I do know what you mean. The reason I'm pausing is I don't want to misspeak >> because I'd have to see. We'll have to look into first. >> I always assume Ken honestly has any answer to any history legislation. I'm like >> well I can in theory I can say that that this is where lobbying comes in and the big banks convinced Congress and and you know I mean that's why we call. >> So here's here's another dumb question.

If there if that is just platforming, if Trump really cannot do that by law to go in and do what causes him to come into the headlines and to to throw it out there just to stir the pot >> the same thing when he says and winks winks and says uh he might run for a third term. He says whatever he wants to say. >> Well, I know but >> he's a showman and so that's part of it.

>> But I'm just saying is it was there something else stirring that he's like >> Yeah. Yeah. The midterms >> going to be going to be the votes.

>> Okay, let me tell you this. the number one buzzword in politics in America today. You guys know what it is?

>> Tell us. Can >> affordability. >> Oh yeah. >> Both sides of the aisle. It is going to be the issue in the midterms. And and so

presidents do this. I don't begrudge him for it, but that's why he did it. By the way, it was probably 3:00 in the morning. He probably just had a fileto fish sandwich, >> you know, brought to him by Secret Service. The guy never sleeps. Yeah. You know what I mean? >> I've heard that. >> And so he just gets on truth and he's like, "Oh, this is a good idea." Yeah, >> let's stir some things up. What should be anyway? This sounds good.

>> Yeah. And you know, and I will say from my seat, the banks do screw people. But also, we have chosen as a country, as a consumer base to get into this amount of debt, right? Nobody That's right.

Nobody tortures you and forces you to sign for the car loan or the credit card or whatever. Right. We as adults, if you're over 18, have chosen to put your signature on something. >> That's true.

>> I don't begrudge the banks. You know why? The banks are just like the guy in the kiosk in the mall where I'm walking by with my wife. He's like, "Hey, HEY, HEY, >> HEY, >> TRY this one.

Try this." >> And you have every right to just pass by. >> I can ignore him or I can stop and get sucked into it and then the whole let the whole spiel sell me on whatever it is. >> Now Ken's got a new face lotion all of a sudden. >> Right.

There you go. I want to say is I'm with you. A new keychain. >> But like you I'm I'm I'm validating your point.

>> Banks aren't bad.

business of making money. >> Yeah. They do pry on people. They know.

They know the >> tax. I agree. But I'm saying we Let's get some personal responsibility. >> Right. Right. Which is Yeah. What?

>> By the way, Trump threw out the 50-year mortgage, too. >> So, he's just throwing stuff out there just to see what's >> What was the math on that one that you did? It would be like a million dollars in interest or something, but was it crazy? >> You essentially never pay it off. The principal doesn't go down until you're 41 years into the mortgage.

That's when more is going to principal than interest. 41 years into a 50-year mortgage. Yeah, >> wild. >> So, uh, yeah, uh, folks, I would say don't get your financial advice from presidents andor the banks.

>> Takeaway, I would I would pay my credit cards off today and cut them up versus waiting and hoping that maybe the rates will go down and so I'll hang on. The banks, they don't care about your financial piece, and that's fine. The politicians, they're not going to solve your debt problem. And the system is designed to keep you dependent on lenders and on lawmakers. So, the best part is you don't have to be dependent.

You can break free from the system and just say, "No, I'm going to use my own money." What's in your wallet, George?

>> A debit card. >> I thought you were going to say cash. >> And cash. >> It won't fit. >> Uh Ken, thanks for jumping in last night. >> Always fun. You guys are the best. >> Thanks.

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a blessing not a burden. It's easy. You just can compare agent profiles which I love. So you can like look at different ones, see what people are saying, look at their look at their profiles, interview them, and then choose the right one to work with. To find a Ramsey

trusted real estate pro for free, go to ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. >> Little Sharon Ramsay snuck out there.

>> Help you, >> Rachel. Just a little help. Oh, you

know, you can't you can take the accent out of the girl. Oh, I just can't take Well, or the girl. How does >> whatever they say. >> Yeah, whatever that that saying is. All right, let's head to is it uh Ally?

Would you go Ally >> or Ali? >> Or Ali in New York. New York.

>> Yes. >> Hi Ali. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> I just have a simple question. I run a limousine company here in New York and uh I have a lot of independent contractors. They work with me. they have their own vehicles.

So, I have right now only one driver that drives my car, which you know lowers my expenses. But the question I wanted to ask is um if it's okay for me

to buy another vehicle and hire another driver, which is going to obviously, you know, add another car payment and the

insurance and the drivers pay on my payroll. So that's the question I want to ask is should I keep using the independent contractors or you know buy another vehicle and hire my own driver?

>> Yeah. Well, if you're going to go through the avenue of debt, oh yeah, I would say yeah. No, I would say you're not financially ready to do that because

from a financial perspective, even with small business, we always say move at the speed of cash. if you have the cash in order to do it, if you have enough revenue, profits coming in that you know, okay, yes, I have the ability to pay someone full-time, save up for a car, like all of this is going to be streamlined, then yes, I would. Until then, I would not. But I but I think that could be a great, you know, next milestone for you. Um because I do know,

you know, the car service, you know, world in New York, I know it's um there's a lot of need out there, right? There's a lot of people um that use car services. So, I do think that your ability to make money is there and I just wonder if you make it more of a goal than like an urgent um implementing

something quickly.

>> Yeah, I mean uh because I was doing the math, it's going to add at least you know 10 grand um uh on my uh you know

monthly including the you know driver's

pay and the car payment and the insurance. So $10,000 monthly is going to add uh >> that's the expense for you >> for one adding. Yeah, because the vehicles we use is a Cadillac Escalade SUV. We buy a lot of high-end business executives and uh we did around 1.1

>> million uh last year and uh >> is that top line profit >> gross? >> Yeah, that was the top. Yes.

>> What do you take home from the business?

>> Um approximately 350 to 400.

>> Oh, amazing. Okay, Olly, hit me straight. Couldn't you save up and buy one of these in cash? Maybe buy one used, get a deal, and then it's it's pure cash flow.

>> Yeah, I mean, the the one thing I I think the only option I'm going to have to go to, as you just said, maybe I have to save money to buy the car because we

uh if I buy a used vehicle, what's going to happen is they won't give us the warranty, which is 150,000 mi warranty we normally get when we get a new vehicle. So, um, because, you know, we

run these cars for a long time, uh, put

a lot of mileage on it. So, if I buy a used one, it's not going to have that warranty. >> Sure. But you could self-insure at this point with the business. I mean, you can create your own warranty fund and put 500 bucks a month into a pot and go, "All right, we're going to cover maintenance and repairs with this money instead of paying the the fees for the warranty." Because what you're doing is you're destroying these vehicles by using them for business, which means you're likely underwater on that car pretty quickly.

>> You owe 60 grand. The car is now worth 40 cuz you already have 100,000 miles on it, whatever it is. And so it's actually putting you at more risk by buying those cars with a loan. And so I would encourage you get a deal, buy one used.

They're still nice cars. Even a 5-year-old Escalade is I'm not going to go, "Well, it's not a 2025, so I'm not going to ride in this vehicle." You know, it's about the service you provide. >> It's clean, smells good, right? I mean, it's all that. >> And so, if you run this, do you have any debt tied to the business right now?

>> Uh, yeah. Right now, the only debt I have is uh which, you know, we have brand new two two brand new vehicles.

Uh, it's close to 130 130,000.

>> Okay. How quickly could you pay that off?

>> I can pay that off uh I would say within

six or eight months. >> Cool. Amazing. >> Think about that though.

If you got rid of all the debt and then you begin to cash flow any future vehicles, run the numbers on that and not only will I think you're going to go, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing." Yes, it's going to take a little bit of delayed gratification right now and sacrifice, but the long term is you survive in this business 10 years from now because everyone else is overleveraged underwater on their car loans and you're going, "Sweet. I got six Escalades paid for in cash." >> Yeah. And what's crazy, Ollie, is George and I, we were in New York City March of 2020.

literally the day they were shutting down Broadway, all of it cuz we were there for a media thing right when CO hit. So my thing is too, you know, whether it's, you know, something like that. I mean, who knows what could happen where everything just stops, right? Business for you guys in 2020 through 21 probably just ended, right?

I mean, it just was done. And so there's still a level >> Yeah. a level of risk that you carry when you carry debt. And especially since yours is so dependent upon, you know, other people and even, you know, I I don't know if it's just execs that you guys um you know, do this car service for or other people, but there's something to be said that if for some reason business just stops when you don't have debt, you have a lot of peace.

A lot of peace. Thanks for the call, Ollie. I hope that helps.

South Carolina. Hi, Ethan. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, guys. How's it going? Yep. >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

Well, uh, it's kind of a compound question, but I'll keep it brief. Uh, my

fiance and I are going to get married in June. >> Yay. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Thank you. It's been a long time coming. About a two-year engagement. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. Um, so we have our honeymoon paid

for, we have our wedding paid for, just a couple of expenses here and there, but we're wondering, should we rent first?

Should we buy first? uh we have an opportunity to live with family, but I'll explain more of that in a bit.

>> Okay. Yeah. My my kind of go-to answer usually, Ethan, is if you guys are not if one of neither of you are homeowners right now. Is that right?

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, yeah, starting off like that, I would definitely just rent. rent for a year, get settled, get an apartment, like just kind of just, you know, have that, save some money, and then when you look up and say, "Okay, we do have enough to put a down payment, you know, which is 5% for first-time home buyers is what we recommend on a 15-year fixed rate and mortgage, you know, and it may take you longer than a year to save depending on where you guys are financially, you know, what you guys can put away." Um, so I would not buy a home until you have that till you're financially ready.

So, in the meantime, I would be renting. But even if you were financially ready, there is still part of me, George, that I'm like, you know, >> still wise. >> Yeah. Just rent for a year.

>> I'm curious, Ethan. I see the word debt on my screen. How much debt do you guys have? >> Uh, we have I did the math while I was on hold.

It's right at $89,000.

>> Okay. What's What's going to be your household income once you guys are married?

uh per month or total?

>> Total per year?

>> Total per year. Uh I currently bring homes around 70 or 70. She's about to

graduate from nursing school, so it's kind of hard to guess, but I'd say probably around 60 to 70.

>> Good. We all making a good income. Yep.

>> So that you have a great goal while you're renting, which is clean up the mess and aggressively pay off your consumer debt, which means we're not going to do any investing. We're not going to live the like crazy newlywed life and go get a bunch of stuff and go on all these crazy trips. >> No, we're living on $40,000 a year. Tell yourself that and then throw that to throw that hundred at this debt and get it paid off, you know?

I mean, you guys could clean this up in one year, Ethan, which is so amazing. And then beyond that, build, you know, building up an emergency fund and then saving up for that down payment, which again, you guys have a great income. So, you're going to be able to do that. >> Don't get tempted because everyone goes, "Well, you're married now.

You need a house. You need a house. Let's go buy a house. They don't pay your bills.

They don't know your stress levels.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my

good friend, bestselling author, George Camel, and we co-host a another podcast

Ramsey Network show called Smart Money Happy Hour. So, make sure to check it out. All right. Give us a call at8825-5225 and we're here to answer your money

questions and any questions about life.

You know, sometimes money uh definitely is integrated into our relationships and our jobs and careers and all the things.

So, we are here for you. All right, let's go to the phones and we're going to go to Chicago starting us off and Brooke is on the line. Hi, Brooke.

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, my husband and I found ourselves in sort of a unique situation last year. He had just graduated from dental school and we moved to a small town in South Carolina where he worked as an associate dentist at a practice that essentially was committing insurance fraud, drilling on things that didn't need to be done.

So, after about a month or two there, we reassessed our options and realized the best bet was to move back to Chicago,

where I'm from, to live with my parents while we finished out our lease on our town home there. So, the original goal when moving here was to try to pay off

as much as our student loans as possible. I'm a physical therapist, he's a dentist. We both combined have about 600,000 in student loans >> over the past year.

>> Wow. correctly. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Okay.

>> So, over the past year, we um were able

to pay off I think moving here. I think I had a approximately 140,000 in student

loans. We were able to kind of wipe that out. So, now it's been a year living here. We've been with my parents.

He still has his 420,000 in student loans. And so, I guess the next step, like I'm just calling in to get some wisdom on, you know, we've stayed. We're still in a good relationship with my parents, but should we continue to live with them, saving up for potentially a down payment on a home? Should we be looking more into renting for the time being?

>> So, his he's a percentage of production.

So, his is approximately I would say probably 140,000 >> 140 >> since he's an associate dentist. Yeah.

>> Okay. And what about you? >> And I make approximately 90.

>> Okay. Um, and do you think >> I know what hits? Oh, sorry.

>> Well, yeah. So, so you guys living with your parents, you basically if you lived on nothing, then you should be able to

pay off this in two years,

>> correct? With his you mean for her for

his student loans? >> Well, yeah, you guys are Yeah. I mean, at 250, if you guys each live if you lived on 50,000 a year, which is plenty

because you don't have rent or you're not paying utilities and stuff, I'm assuming you got $200,000.

>> Do you still have debt on top of his 420?

>> So, at next month, we will have paid off

my student loans. >> Okay. So, yours is done. So, the 420 is left. Yeah. So, if you guys had two years where you put $200,000 a year, that's 400,000. And then, you know, you're working a side gig or whatever. You guys are making 20,000 extra between in those two years. You guys could have this paid off. >> I would be busting it. Um, I would make it my goal to get out of there as soon as possible. I'll say it that way.

>> Don't let this be a hammock where you go, "Well, we're comfortable. Let's go on a vacation. Let's get a nice car. We have no expenses. This is great." >> You see where I'm going with this? Cuz that's the real situations we hear from when people go, "I'm living with this really happened. They I They were living with parents to pay off their $10,000 in debt." I asked them, "How much debt do you have now?" $40,000 in debt. They went into debt while living with family because they got comfortable.

>> And my I guess we're trying to move out, I guess, as soon as possible. So, we're looking maybe in the next few months here to try to move out. So, >> and what is rent cost in your area?

>> About 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, you'll be, you know, 40,000.

>> It will slow you down by, you know, 36 grand a year essentially.

It would. And he accumulates about 2500

to 3,000 a month in interest on his loans as well. >> Oh my. That's your rent right there.

>> That's worth noting. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I would be busting it to make $300,000 this year and throw every penny at the debt. And maybe you guys get on a game plan with with your family and go, "Hey, here's our timeline. Here's what we're doing. Keep us accountable.

Check in with us." And I there's a part of me, Brooke, too, that I, you know, for the good of just you guys in general, I do think there's a a gift in living with them right now while you're paying it off. But I think having an end date that kind of makes you uncomfortable >> and forces you guys out.

And you got pretty much a good calendar year and you're throwing so much at the debt, but then you're saying, you know what, a year from now, we're going to be living in our own place. we're going to finish paying off the debt. It may take us an extra couple of months because we're living on our own, but there's something about that growing up and being out on your own as a married couple. Um, that I I don't know.

I think it's there's something about having an end date for me >> would be really helpful. So, it's not this ongoing idea that you're living there. >> And I would and again, I think I would and I would shorten the timeline in a sense just to get you guys out, right? You're both adults.

You both are smart people. You're a physical therapist. He's a dentist, right? Like you are capable adults and you'll be able to pay this off.

And there's something about two capable adults not living at home that's good for you guys. But for a season, I think it's okay right now. I was just have an end date.

>> Yeah. So, if we've set an end date, let's say, of November, do you think it's important to because what we've been doing for the past year is doing that, like putting all our money towards my student loans. We knocked them out.

That's great. But now we have like nothing to shoot for it other than like no debt on my part. Is it smart to kind of be saving money on the side as well just so that way if by November we're looking to buy a home? Like is that >> Brooke, I need you to put the idea of buying a home on hard pause right now.

We have a huge mountain in front of us.

You guys will be homeowners and you will retire multi-millionaires. But right now, for the next probably two or three or four years, >> you have a mortgage right now. >> Creating a foundation of $220,000.

>> The amount of interest you pay is more than most people's mortgage. >> Yeah. So, let's focus on knocking out all debt. >> Yes.

All focused on this. >> Then you get an emergency fund of 6 months. Then we begin saving up the down payment. And so you might crunch the numbers and go, "Okay, in Chicago we're that's a $700,000 home.

We might need to downgrade to a town home that's $600,000 in the suburbs." Whatever.

>> Yeah. How How old are you guys, Brooke?

>> 27. >> 27. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, if you guys are debtree by 30, you do some saving, and you guys are, you know, homeowners by 32, that's a great plan.

>> So, and you have plenty of time, you guys have time, and you make an incredible income. Like, you're going to be able to make some big strides. And that's if all of your income stays the same for the next five years, which it's not. It's going to go up over time. Um, so it's going to fast forward your plan.

I think you're going to get to all of these things faster, but you have to do it in the right order, which is the baby step. So, you want a $1,000 emergency fund. Go ahead and get out of all your consumer debt, build up that emergency fund, and then be uh saving up for that down payment. Have you guys um have you guys read the Total Money Makeover?

>> My husband has. He's having me reading it right now. >> Oh, well, there you go. I was going to give you a copy, but you don't.

I'll give let me give you George's George's breaking free, bro. >> There's more jokes in there. I think you'll enjoy. >> Yeah.

Yeah. It's a It's a great one. >> And read the student loans chapter. It'll light a fire.

>> Yeah. It just kind of solidifies, Brooke, like just the way our generation does money. It kind of just like pokes a hole in all these, you know, industries to show you that you don't have to be normal. You don't have to be normal.

I don't want you going backwards in your progress. Continue to move forward. You have a great income. You guys are smart, but get rid of this $420,000 loan in two years. Do it. Make a crazy goal and do it.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

Up next, we have Samantha in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Samantha. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, uh, my husband and I are on Baby Step 7 and we're trying to figure out what to do next. Um, so we are out of

debt. We've got 3,000 in savings. We're contributing to our 401k and our Roth IRA and so we're just um and we own a

home.

>> That's amazing. What's your house worth?

>> Um when we bought it, we bought it for 150 and right now it's worth about 400.

>> Oh my god. >> Paid off.

>> Yeah, we we paid it off. >> How old are you guys?

>> Um 28 and 29.

>> Oh my gosh. Samantha, >> who raised you? This is crazy.

>> I grew up listening to Dave Ramsey on the car ride home. >> Financial peace, baby. And you guys were like, "All right, let's just live this out." So, you guys got married, you were debtree or close to it. You were able to get a house faster and pay it off.

>> What do you guys make a year?

>> Um, between the two of us, we make about 200 uh before taxes.

>> Okay, good for you guys. And >> you said you had how much in savings?

>> 30,000. >> 30,000. Okay, awesome. And you're asking what's next?

Yeah. Um, I also have a secondary question that might play into this. Um, I have a house I inherited as well on top of this. Um, and so we're debating selling it and investing it in another house to kind of be like our, you know, rent our current house and invest in a nicer house to live in >> um versus sell it, sit on the money, put

it into like um stocks or something.

Like we're not really sure what to do with it at this point. >> Yeah. When do you guys want to upgrade houses? Do you know?

Um, we're looking to do it sooner than later. We are putting that home on the market just because it's not making us anything and we're unable to rent it comfortably due to the location and manage it well. >> Okay. >> Um, so we want to, you know, have a rental in the same city that we're in so we can manage it. Um, >> what do you think you would net from that?

>> Probably 400,000 as well.

>> Wow, that's incredible. Jeez.

>> So, you would take that 400,000 and get a different house in cash and then you would keep your current one and rent it.

>> Yes. >> Is that feasible?

>> Yeah. >> You can get the house you want for that 400 in your area?

>> Um, our dream house would probably be a little more. So, we'd have a mortgage about 200 and then we'd pay that off in about a year to two years is our goal.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Well, I think that's Yeah. So, you ask what's next. I think that would be the next step, right? So for probably for the next two to three years when it comes from everything from selling the houses, closing, finding the new one, all that, you know. So I would say you guys have like a house goal uh here for

the next three years of buying something and if you take a small mortgage, paying it off quickly, all of it. So that would be >> you'll be back in baby step six for a bit and then back to seven and then you reassess your goals and that's really when the world's your oyster and you guys get to dream. Do we want to >> get another home? Do we want to get into real estate?

Do we want to give more? go on these trips. It just sort of scales up everything. It scales up your spending, it scales up your giving, and it scales up your investing.

>> Yeah.

and find some things that you guys are excited about. And I think, you know, this is one area that Winston and I really kind of had on autopilot for for a few years and probably because we were having babies and all of that. I don't know. We were so we were giving and doing, you know, mathematically what we were supposed to, but it just kind of didn't get as exciting. And so we've switched up even how we give and it's it

is so fun. Like it it has brought the joy back for me in the last like year or two of like, oh my gosh. So get creative in your giving. Find things that you really are passionate about.

Um do some fun stuff with that money. I mean genuinely that is it is some of the most the most fun you can have with money and we say it all the time but it really is true and then be saving continuing to invest and and even maybe you know have some big savings goals for things that maybe you want and then enjoy some of it and so doing the giving saving spending formula.

kind of crazy is like there's not a lot of people say this when they finish the baby steps they're like >> they want like baby step eight. Okay, what's what do I keep doing? You know, so >> I'm like, you tell me. I don't get to decide your life for you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We've done some travel and we've done some things. So, I we could have more saved. Um but I mean, we we've been kind of enjoying life a little. And now >> you guys have kids. Excited to sell.

>> No, we don't. We kind of want a bigger place before we do that. >> Okay, cool. Well, here's what I'll tell you. >> No, go now. Samantha, >> have kids. >> Yeah. Don't wait for the big house.

>> What I want to tell you, >> babies are small. >> It's okay for your dreams to change. You may go, you know what? I want to stay home.

And you guys have the flexibility to do that without it being, you know, adding any financial stress to your life. And so I would I would sit down to a dream date with your husband this weekend and go, "Hey, let's both put a a goal for each category on paper of what we want to do next year. Here's my giving goal. Here's my investing saving goal.

>> And we're having kids next year. It's going to be awesome. >> You never regret. You never regret it.

>> We want to be We do. One of us is going to be a stay-at-home with the kids. Um, so we want to be comfortable with that like one income. >> Yeah. I think you guys are great, right?

I mean, you have no debt. You're choosing the house thing. I'll say that.

If the if the getting into this new house, >> that's the caveat is does that put a damper on your plan for one of you to stay home. I don't want you to be like, well, once that house is paid off, then maybe we'll start thinking about having kids. I would put the kids as the priority before upgrading the home. The child will survive in this home that you have now.

That's true. Okay. Um, and then if we were to say sell like this house the next month and then we we decide not to buy a home, would you guys let that money sit in a high yield interest account or would you invest or how much of that would you save?

>> I would go high yield because you're talking about like a one or two year goal, right? This money is not going to sit there for more than one or two years. And that's where I go, hey, the market, it's been great the last few years. Who knows what 2026 or 27 is going to bring if it's negative 20% and now you're on the cusp of trying to buy this home. And so the high yield savings account just gives you some stability. It'll grow at, you know, 3.5% right now.

But that's that's kind of more guaranteed than the market, which is going to fluctuate more drastically. So if I had a one or two-year goal, I'm going to park it in high yield savings. And if you want a great option, you can check out Fairwinds. You can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They have an awesome uh smart bundle for you. >> Up next, we have James in Ohio. Oh, hi James.

>> Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, um, my wife and I just last year

purchased our first home. Um, and it's

it's a little bit of a fixer upper. Um, well within what we can afford, but I did jump the gun a little bit and looking back in hindsight, I kind of regret it. Uh, just because we still have a little bit of debt. Uh, just a little under 20,000 total.

>> Okay. Um 122,000 of that is on my wife's

car. >> Okay. >> 5,000 in a student loan of hers. Okay.

And just under two grand in credit card debt. >> Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> Uh last year I grossed about 80 and she

her about 20. >> Okay, perfect.

All right. Well, why don't you all just, you know, pay this off in five months?

>> That's the goal ultimately. Um, so but essentially my question was is I'm driving a car that I bought for $5,000 cash. >> Um, and we still owe about 12 on hers.

>> Um, and I know it's well under 50% of my

our income, you know, wheels and motors.

But, uh, what I wanted to do was sell the car and get another, you know, cheap car just to pay that debt off because I'm so tired of making that payment. and which she disagrees with. She thinks we should just keep it and pay it off. >> What's the car worth?

>> Uh, probably about one or two less than I owe on it. >> And how much do you have in savings?

>> So, I pause on the baby steps because my house is in desperate need of a roof. So, I have 10,000 in savings earmarked for that. Um, now I think that my dad and I, cuz I'm going to do it myself, can probably do it for about six.

I don't know what's what we're gonna uncover when we rip the shingles off, you know, open Pandora's box and >> wow's gonna need replaced or anything. So, >> I'm not looking to sell her car right now. >> I know. We're on her team. >> I think you guys will pay it off. If you can pay it off in 5 months, it's not worth selling cuz now you got to turn around and use savings to buy a $5,000 car or $3,000 car, which could lead to more issues. So, >> you're going to upgrade sooner anyways.

So, no. I Yeah, I think it's um I think it's doable. I think >> it's not that desperate. >> Yeah. And I think you guys need to tighten this up, James. I mean, you guys have kind of I understand that the whole house situation is kind of put you guys in a in a different position, but I mean, get back on track and you guys can can get all this cleaned up really fast.

Really, really fast. Just be on the same team with it. But no, we would probably not sell your wife's car.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsay Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives, and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramiesolutions.com/careers.

If you ever hear a money question and you want some guidance like you would on the show, um, then we have a spot for

you. So, I mean, I feel like this show, George, it's sometimes hard to get on the line. It's always all the lines are usually always booked up. So, if you're like, "Man, I've really wanted to ask this question." Well, we've got a free tool for you. >> Here's your chance. >> Yes. If you go on our website, you can ask your money question and get an answer to your situation >> 24/7. >> It's pretty crazy. So, um, AI, love it,

hate it. Well, we're using it for our advantage. So, we actually, our Ramsay team went in and like did all their magic and the Ramsay AI is here. It's

built on the Ramsey principles, customuilt, so it stays in the guard >> rail. It's not random financial advice.

It really is through Ramsey Solutions and what we teach. So you can ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. So you guys check that out.

>> I dare you all to go test it out right now and see how close it is to what we would say on the show. It'll be a fun experiment. >> That's great. Yeah, we're trying to help as many people as possible.

not, you know, if you can't get on the show or slide into our DMs with your question, we don't get back to you. Whatever the thing is, like you have the ability to ask a question about your money and we want to help you do that.

Canada. Hey, >> fun.

>> Hello. >> Hello. Welcome to the show. We uh love

to bring on people who have absolutely killed it when it comes to money just to

hear their story and honestly to to kind of set up the idea like this can happen like you can actually >> it's possible looks like yes and build

um a positive net net worth and one over a million dollars. So um Kurt, thank you again for for coming on. And what is your net worth?

>> Uh just north of 2 million Canadian.

Wow. And how old are you?

>> I just turned 45 not too long ago.

>> Well, that's wild. Are you married?

>> I am. >> Fantastic. Okay, tell us uh the mix of this 2 million. Break it down for us.

>> Oh, goodness. Um probably a quarter of it is retirement. Um 10% is my kids'

college fund. Um I've got about a

quarter of it in um corporate assets for

the businesses that my wife and I run.

and uh some cash on hand, some you know

probably a third of it is my house uh our house. Um yeah, just places.

>> I love it. And you guys have been following this plan for how long now?

>> So, you'll have to forgive me. I didn't know uh Ramsay and the Baby Steps existed until maybe four or five years ago. Um >> you were smart before you found us. >> You did great. >> That's impressive. >> Well, smart and stupid. I I I I won't I

won't lie. You know, we took on a a what I would call a soul crushing amount of debt, but we were we worked our way most of the way through it, and we all we have left is the mortgage. >> Wow. What's your household income?

>> Um just right around 200,000.

>> Okay. What was your best year and worst year of income during this journey?

>> Oh, the Well, the worst year would have been when we first got married. I was still a university student and my wife made $33,000.

Um and uh but once I graduated, our

household income sort of started around

70 or 80,000. Uh we kind of averaged

around 100 110 most of the time. It's only only in the last few years has it really um moved upward.

>> That's awesome. And did you and guys inherit any of this 2 million? Uh, you

know, my my wife's mother gave her part

of her when my my wife's grandmother passed away, uh, my mother-in-law gave us $5,000 to go on a trip for fun.

>> So, safe to say it did not mathematically cause you to become millionaires. >> No, >> cuz that's a big myth we hear all the time. Well, you got to inherit money to be a millionaire. Must be nice. That's not your story. >> And what are your careers? Are you >> uh so my wife is a bookkeeper and I'm an

engineer. >> Fantastic. Which >> that's about uh right up the alley of our study about mill on millionaires.

>> Number one career choice. >> Y >> in the millionaire study over 10,000 of them was engineer. >> Mhm. >> What do you attribute that to Kurt? Is that you know you're a process driven guy and you just went okay I'll just follow the process?

>> Uh well I attribute it to my wife um as

any sane man should. Um,

no, we it was always, you know, we we

live within our means and um, apart from

a few decisions along the way, you don't

buy something if you can't pay for it.

>> Okay. So, y'all have always been very averse to debt, you would say.

>> Well, yes and no. My my mentor retired

earlier than planned and he sold the business to myself and uh my one of my and my business current business partner and uh we weren't quite ready to to purchase that outright and so we had to finance the purchase of the company. >> Oh, that's right. That part, but consumer debt when it comes to clothes and vacations, >> credit cards cars.

Uh we we we financed one and I and it

just I hated it. It >> it uh >> Yeah. After about two years, >> two years I just couldn't stomach it anymore. And so we we got rid of that as soon as we could. >> Wow. What are you guys driving today as real life millionaires?

>> Give me a year, make, model.

>> My car is a 2013 Volvo C30, just has a

little hatchback um with over 100,000 miles on it. Uh my wife, she gets the new car. It's It's We We bought her a new car just a couple years ago. Fell on our last >> a tree fell on our last one, but >> Oh my goodness. >> Um >> Yeah, it was just unfortunate timing.

But uh No, she has a 2023 Volkswagen Tigwan. >> Nice. >> Very great. >> And paid for in cash.

>> Paid for. No, nothing.

>> That's amazing. So, she's got a three-year-old car. You've got a 12y old car. And uh that's we found in the millionaire study the average millionaire drives a 4-year-old car with 41,000 m on it and the top brands were Toyota and Honda.

>> Yeah. >> Which is pretty wild. So you guys are square in the middle of that. And you guys have four-year degrees, both of you or more? >> Both of us? Yeah. >> Okay. Were you guys super smart? What were your GPA? Do you remember?

>> Uh I I'll just say I finished my G my I finished my my degree with a GPA of around 3.7. Uh my wife's was higher.

She's a smart cookie.

>> This is impressive. >> I know. That is impressive. That's amazing. Well, Kurt, what would you say to someone that's listening? Maybe it's a newlywed couple, one of them still in school, maybe they're starting off just like you and your wife did. You know, how would you say what are the principles that you would tell people? This is what you have to do if you want to start building real wealth.

>> Live on less than you less than you make. Make it do. Use it up. Do without.

Those were the guiding principles that we live by. >> Wait, say it again. Use it up. What' you say? >> Use it up. Use it up. So if if you've got something, use it. >> Don't waste. >> If you Yeah. Don't Don't wait. Don't be wasteful. Uh do without. Meaning that if

it's not absolutely necessary, >> don't do it. Um and uh yeah, you what is

it? Use it up. Do without and make it do. So repair repair as needed. Um and

make what you have last. take care of what you have so that you don't have to keep going and buying new things.

>> Yes. >> That's old school. That's definitely like a grandma and grandpa principle right there. You know, coming out of like a great depression. Like we're not going to get new stuff. That's crazy. This works just fine. We'll fix it up.

>> Well, I love it cuz you can get in the habit if something just kind of is off a little bit. Yeah, we'll just get a new one. We'll just get a new one. >> Get one on Amazon. It'll be here in two hours. >> Yeah. And you end up you do you end up spending so much doing that. Okay. So, Kurt, would you say now where you guys are, do you are you enjoying your money?

Do you feel like you guys are having fun?

>> Um, not yet because we still have a mortgage and so that, you know, the the fun is is coming when that's when that's done and gone. >> Uh, but um, you know, right now we're still work we're still working the process >> and but for me it's the it's the piece that comes from, you know, it's like we've got six months of an emergency fund so that if you know, because we're both we're both self-employed, if our income is variable, it's like, you know what, that's okay. We've got we've got comfort and peace.

>> Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. That um that

padding is very real between you and life. I mean there is something that does give a lot of oh you can sleep at night. The stress is down because if something happens we're going to be okay. We have this this money set aside.

So how much longer till the house is paid off?

>> Uh 5 years. Okay. The the goal the goal

is debtree by 50. >> The ripe age of 50. And by then you'll probably be worth closer to 3 million.

Maybe closer to 3.5.

>> If things keep if things keep trending the way they are. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I could see that happening. >> Well done, Kurt. Well, >> thanks for the inspiration. >> Yeah, you guys are awesome. Thanks for calling in. Always your stories. Yeah, definitely um kind of give a boost to people out there to see real life people doing real life stuff. So, thanks

How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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Our scripture of the day is from 1

Timothy 6:5-7. This is one of my favorites, George. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we have

brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it.

>> Bob Marley said, "Spend life with who

makes you happy, not who you want to have to impress." Oh, >> it's pretty good. But yeah, the godliness with contentment is great gain. That is that's big. You brought nothing into the world.

You can't I saw someone I couldn't I couldn't quite live with this philosophy because it's a little bit too yolo for me, but it was like on Instagram was a meme and it was this woman. She was like at the beach like had a drink or something and she was like, you know, no one uh basically like in the graveyard you're not going to you don't care if you're the tannest or the the have the best skin, skinniest, biggest bank account. like she listed all these things that we worry about. She's like go enjoy your life like eat the pizza, you know, take the trip, do the thing.

And I thought, you know, it's a little bit of that like >> and you are a very experiences over things person. Yes. >> Which is wise.

It's one of the best ways to spend money is on experiences with people you love.

>> You love. Yes, we've heard that. Arthur Brooks talks about that a lot.

>> And there is something to >> Rachel's using that to justify every next trip. She's like, Winston, it's science. We have to go.

>> We have to go. This is where we should spend our money. I'm telling you, it's what everyone remembers. It's the fun big meal.

It's the whole, you know, at my house, we had all the personalities and our spouses. It's a great time. You guys were so generous. >> We have a great dinner.

I don't know. All of it. There's There's something about Yeah. living.

>> You could have bought a purse, but instead you said, "You know what? Let's have a great meal with friends." >> And I can't take the purse with me into the next life. But I'll But I'll take the memories. >> Could be in your Costco casket in there with you.

But >> what good's that going to do?

So, I love it. Yep. godliness with contentment, great gain. You didn't bring anything to the world. You can't take anything out. All right, let's go to the phones and we're going to go to Hunter in Fresno, California. Hi,

Hunter.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help today?

>> Uh, so my wife and I, we are a little

bit of uh we just got married about a

year ago. Um, we we started off really

good financially. Uh we're making a

little over 100,000.

Um well, we kind of added rack racked up

some debt. Uh we bought a uh new truck.

Um so now we're I have about $50,000 on that. >> And then we also >> That's a nice truck.

>> It It's It is a nice truck. Um but we

also got a camper.

>> How much is that? We're about 20,000 20,000 what we still owe on it.

>> Okay. >> What other debt? >> Um the up uh so other than that, the

only other debt is we just bought a house about a month ago. Um and so now

we added that $2,800 payment onto our

monthly payments.

>> And what's your monthly take-home pay?

>> Monthly takehome pay, it kind of ranges.

Um, it ranges anywhere from uh it can be

anywhere from 5,000 to roughly about u I

would say about 9 10,000.

>> Whoa.

Okay. Well, that that would be more than 100,000 if you're if you're fairly consistently getting, you know, 8 n grand a month takeh home.

>> Well, yeah. I mean, uh, this past two months, we've only been taking in about 5,000. Uh but a couple months prior we

were >> How are you guys how are you guys surviving? >> Yeah, your mortgage is over half your pay for many months. >> And you got a camper loan or payment in the truck.

>> So the truck payment is 1,300.

>> Oh my gosh. And what's the camper payment?

>> A,000. >> So you got 2,300 going to toys that are going down in value every day.

>> Yep.

So, okay. But my thing is, if you make $5,000 a month, that's $5,100 just in payments. How are you guys making your light bill and food? Like, do you guys have savings?

>> We do. We have uh we have roughly about

So, we have roughly about 20,000 in our

savings account. >> Okay. And you're just going to be draining that a little bit at a time to live off of, >> right? Well, so that's right. Now, the

reason that fluctuates is I I'm currently in school. And so with my construction business, you know, there's sometimes, you know, I I'll get a job and I can work around school and it I do great. And then there's other times it's, you know, school gets caught up and I I don't have as much time to work.

>> Yeah. But you bought a camper.

>> Yeah. It feels like a bad time to buy a $50,000 truck >> and a camper. >> And a camper that you probably don't have time to use. Hunter, do you just feel crazy? Like, do you feel like what did we do?

>> I I Yeah. >> What does your wife think about all this? >> Let's make a Let's Yeah. >> Is she like, "Hey, we got to get out of this situation." Or she like, "It's fine. He's got it under control." >> Uh, both. I guess she uh So, she I mean, you

could tell she gets um uh nervous or

frustrated every now and then from it.

Uh but she's also uh she realizes that

We're not I guess we're not we're not at

the end of the road yet. So we we can still come out of this and so she's a little bit more comfortable with that.

>> Okay. >> Um so yeah, we're definitely we're

definitely on trying >> probably 9 to 10 months months away of having nothing though. You know what I mean? Like I think I y'all don't it doesn't feel this I don't feel an urgency necessarily. And so that 20,000

is gonna go really quick because the months you do make the 5,000, you're already a $100 underwater, right? So you take that hundred and then you gota, you know, you guys are probably going out to eat, you're stressed with school, so you're, you know, you're doing this and I mean, you guys probably are not on a very strict budget, are you?

>> Um, right now we we actually past couple months we have gone on to a strict budget. Um, we don't really eat out

maybe once every couple months. Oh, Hunter. We have nothing. >> Really?

>> If I looked at your bank account statement >> overnight, over two months, over 60 days, you don't eat out except for once out of 60 days. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, ma'am. >> All right.

I'm going to take your word for it, Hunter. I feel like you're an honest man. >> I will tell you what I would do if I was in your shoes as >> I feel like a Starbucks run is probably in there somewhere. >> Maybe for her at least.

>> Quick Chick-fil-A nugget. You know, >> you guys need some vices right now. This is crazy. Okay.

>> Okay. Let's make a plan. Make a plan for Hunter.

Okay, fine. That's fine. That's fine. >> So, I'm Hunter. I'm a newlywed. Been married a year. I have a cool, great income. >> What are you going to do, George? >> I am selling the truck and camper tomorrow. Like, I'm taking pictures tonight. I'm listing it tomorrow.

>> And your construction ego just plummets.

>> And any amount you're underwater on, you're going to use that $20,000 in savings to cover it and get yourself a beater car. >> Oh, okay. It's working now. And then what's freed up, George? How much money you got? You just got a $2,300 a month raise, my man. >> So those $5,000 months turned in to 72.

>> Now we can breathe. >> Oh my gosh, George. What a plan. All right, >> this is great. This is a solvable problem. >> Then what are we going to do? >> Then we need an emergency fund cuz you likely will deplete that 20K to cover the underwater difference plus getting you a beater car. And so now our job is to really build some financial stability once we don't have debt to get three to six months of expenses.

>> How's that sound, Hunter?

You'll make it sound a lot easier than what it is. >> I feel like you're not willing to sell this truck or the camper.

>> Tell me why. >> The camper I'm actually I the camper I would get rid of it in a heartbeat, >> but >> um I told my wife about selling it.

>> What was that? >> Yeah, I said and they can be tough to sell.

>> Well, they're tough to sell and it actually came from her parents and so she's she's a little bit more stuck to it >> um than I am. Don't have don't have like attachments to campers.

>> We got to get attachments to to healthy financial foundations. That's what we're looking for here. Or Hunter, you guys can here's the deal. You know, you called the show.

I feel like I'm we're giving a little tough love, but the truth is you can stay in this cycle. You guys can stay with campers and trucks and payments. >> You can live in a truck and a camper, which will be your future. >> No, but this is No, but like this is normal, Hunter.

This is normal. And you guys could go on for years and years and years.

Something's going to happen. One of you is going to want to stay home. You guys are going to be in your early 30s. The roof's going to be leaking and you have no money. And you look back and think, what have we been doing? We've been working our butts off for seven years.

And we can't even do what we want with our life. Why? Because in our early 20s, we just, you know, our mid20s, we didn't make decisions. These are these aren't hard decisions. It's hard for the ego.

The ego hates it. But I'm telling you that you guys can stay normal. But you called the show and this show is far from normal. We are all about getting out of debt, making deep deep sacrifices, Hunter, in order for you guys to get ahead. In the future, you guys can get a great truck in a camper.

But when you can afford it, you can't afford it. You can't you you don't have the money for this stuff. And then you rushed into a house and all of it. So, say it out loud, own it, and go, "Hey, babe. I'm sorry. I screwed up." >> Yep. All right. What a great show, you guys. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, George. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 31. Debt Robs Your Life of Margin | May 11, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `lejr2ze684A` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lejr2ze684A) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:32:55 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey [music] Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. [music] Next to me, George camel.

>> Hey, love it. >> That was not a sound effect. That was actually me. >> That came straight from the camel's mouth. Hey, >> nailed [music] it. >> I know. I did nail that. And we are going to nail it here with Marie who is in Cleveland, Ohio. So, what's going on, Marie? How can George and I help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, unfortunately, my husband of

46 years old, uh, we were married 21

years, he died suddenly 10 months ago.

>> Oh my goodness. >> And, um, >> yeah, it's been really hard, but we are trusting in God to take care of us. Um

he we um we have three teenagers, 17,

15, and 13 that I'm now raising. Um my

husband was the main breadwinner, and I was a stay-at-home mom with the kids. I homeschool them, and I'm wondering what

um how much money I need to have in the bank moving forward if I want to buy a

home. We have no debt. Uh, we own both

of our vehicles, but I am raising three teenagers now by myself and having to figure out an income. The only thing that adds a interesting twist to this is that um my husband's uh the company that

he worked with, they're very generous,

unbelievably generous, and they have offered to continue his salary for a year. >> Wow. Wow. >> Um >> I know I I am still absolutely blown

away by how God has lavishedly taken

care of us, but I just don't know what to do. Um another situation that's been an incredible blessing is that someone has offered to pay our rent. Um we currently just rent a home um through the rest of this year as well. So, I am in a position where I can save quite a

bit of money um and potentially pay for

a house in cash. I just am wondering what would be a wise decision to have in the bank if I do find a property.

>> Marie, was there um I'm so so sorry for your loss. Uh first off, um was there

life insurance at all?

Yes, there was half a million.

>> Half a million. Okay. And have you received that?

>> Um I have I have it in a uh like a a

savings account, you know, a high yield savings account. >> Okay. So >> So it is drawing a little bit of interest. >> Okay, good. And that's just where it should be. I I So I hear two main questions. I hear, you know, how do I basically plan for life and budgeting

monthtomonth as the years go by? And also, how do I set myself up to purchase a home in cash? Is is that right?

>> That is correct. >> Okay. [snorts] Um, so I love the generosity that you're experiencing with the folks around you, the year of salary, the year of rent. Um, what I

would do is I would go home tonight.

We'll send you every dollar at no cost to you. And I would go through and I

would just budget out what my expenses are. And I would not right now play in uh the year of rent. I would still put the the rent on there just so I can see what it is because instead of paying the rent, you'll just pay it to yourself in savings. Um and that way you'll get used to that muscle of this money comes out and even though right now it's going to savings, you'll you won't get used to spending it monthtomonth. And I think that that's a good thing. Um, and you

can even keep your husband's salary on there since they're going to be, you know, be paying you a year's worth of salary. And then after that, I'd say,

okay, with this life insurance, can I draw the same amount of my husband's salary and just keep that budget going?

So, what did your husband earn?

Well, um he was he was self-employed and

so he did have to pull out quite a bit quite a bit for taxes and he didn't have um very many write- off expenses, but he was earning a uh gross about 140 a year.

>> Okay. And that's what he took home into you all's personal budget.

>> Well, that was that was gross. So after pulling out a tithe and taxes,

um I would say probably more like around

90 or 100 thousand.

>> Okay, cool. So if you can, you know, look at that monthly amount and say, "Okay, this feels good, you know, for me to live off that amount. So that's going to be somewhere around uh $6,000 a

month." So you'll get to test that out and see how that feels. And in the meantime, I would George get with a smart vester pro and start looking at the best ways to invest uh this life insurance. >> Yeah. What they can do is look at all of the assets in the picture and then show you projections of how what kind of runway you have for this money to work for you because if it's invested, it's in the market.

So, it could go down temporarily, could go up.

And that doesn't tell us that much. We don't know what the future holds. But investing it for the long haul is going to do you way better than just keeping it in a high yield savings account. Now, can you replace $140,000 income off 500

grand for the rest of your life? No. But can it buy you a whole lot of time for those maybe teens to get out of the house and maybe you have an encore career? Absolutely.

>> So, >> so would you guys think maybe that it's not a good idea to look at purchasing a house just yet? I would say for cash, I

don't think so because you really need that nest egg until you can secure what your job is going to look like in the workforce because to George's point, it's not enough to draw 100 thou $140,000 off of uh continuously.

>> Do you guys have any other retirement accounts or any other savings to speak of?

>> Um we had he had a very minimal 401k. it

was only around 35,000 and then I have um I mean grand total

with everything put together 401k Roth all that it was probably only maybe a

little bit over 100,000.

>> Okay. Okay. And then anything in savings currently that you had aside from the 500,000 payout?

>> Uh not much. We I have managed with

everything right now I'm sitting at about 592,000.

Okay. Well, you can look at it this way.

If you bought a house in cash, that would alleviate having to pay a mortgage or rent. Now, you'd still have taxes, insurance, maintenance, and repairs, all of that to pay for forever with a home.

And so, it's going to cost you a pretty penny to run this household regardless.

But, I like the idea of you sitting down with that Smart Investor Pro and saying, "Hey, when would the right time be based on our life season with teens in the house? Should we just continue renting?

What are you paying for rent right now?

>> Um about $1,100 a month.

>> That's amazing. That is so much cheaper than you could do as a homeowner. >> I know. >> When you're >> I know. And and it's it's a great property as well. Yeah. >> So, I would just hang on to that right now until you know that, hey, I have this job secured. I have this income. I can support being a homeowner with real money versus draining this >> this sort of nest egg.

>> Yeah. Do you have any ideas of what you might want to do for work? Have you been had any free mental space to ideulate on that?

>> Um, so I do have a background in nursing, but I it was pretty traumatic

the way my husband died and I just I can't go back into the hospital right now. So >> that's so avoid >> Yeah. trying to avoid [music] all of that. >> That's totally understandable.

and you know, you have the right to take your time and and think through this. And luckily, you've your friends and family have bought you a year's worth of time for that. [music] We're going to send you Ken Coleman's um uh Get Clear assessment. It's actually find the work you're wired to do is a book and inside of it is the Get [music] Clear Career Assessment.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Let's head back to the phone lines where we [music] have Max who's in Madison, Wisconsin. Max, how can we help out today?

Hey guys, I'm uh moving jobs at the end of this month and I'm wondering if I should um use up a good amount of my emergency fund to purchase my stock options from the current company I'm at um before heading I've got a 90-day window before heading to the new company. >> Interesting. 90 days going to a new company. How much do you have in your emergency fund that you're thinking about using on this single stock?

I have uh 32,000 and the stock options,

there's 4,000 of them and their exercise price is around $5. So, be about 20 grand. Okay.

>> What would you do with the stocks afterwards?

>> Well, it's not a publicly traded company yet, so it's kind of a, you know, just an intent on their on their future. Um,

you know, kind of earnings public.

Yeah, that's kind of the gamble and the kind of, you know, thing I'm weighing there. I I think they're on a pretty good trajectory. Um, it's about 300 million ARR, so it's, you know, something that they've had a lot of discussion about and have plans to do in the future. >> Um, so that's kind of >> So, if they do go public, it's it's going to be a big payday for you. What does your 20k potentially turn into if they go public?

Yeah, I don't know what they would go public at, you know, probably maybe 15 to $20 a share estimates.

>> So, you could three to fourx your money would be the hope couple years from now.

>> Are you um what baby step are you in? Do you have any debt?

>> Yeah, just mortgage.

>> You know, I got to tell you, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't do this. Um it feels like a gamble. And I think that you could take the same money and invest

it and know that you're going to get the return on that on that money. Um, and I

certainly wouldn't want to drain my savings knowing that I'm going to go through a 90-day dry spell uh with no income. George, >> I won't have a 90-day drive spell.

There's just a 90-day purchase. Could you come up with that money outside of the emergency fund or close to it?

Yeah, I could um it would have to come from probably Roth or >> No, not from retirement, but from your future income or any other assets that you could that are liquid.

>> Um, yeah, I possibly could.

>> I just like the idea of you setting a guy a guardrail for yourself of saying, "Hey, I'm not going to go less than 3 months of my emergency fund, but I'm willing to drain it down to 3 months and use future income in order to purchase the options if you're going to do it." And that way you're not stuck in alerts cuz Murphy will come knocking, man. As soon as you buy those stocks, you're going to have a $15,000 emergency. It's just how life works, >> right? >> So I I'm not mad if you do [clears throat] this.

>> There's not a there's not an all or nothing exercise option on them.

>> Oh, that's good. Then you're going to go if they do go public, you're going to go, "Dang it, I should have got all 20.

I could have made more." There's there's always going to be that element to it of the what if. So if if you feel strongly about this company and even then once you do once they do go public I would then move those stocks into a mutual fund or index fund versus keeping it in a single stock.

>> Correct. Right. >> Uh just a question. Why are you leaving the company if you're expecting them to do well and go public and all this?

>> I have a better offer at a a separate company. Um and it comes with 140,000 of

of RSUs and they're already publicly traded. um same investing schedule over four years, but you know, it's a stock

that's >> pretty pretty well traded right now. And and so I think it's just a better opportunity also for my career.

>> And and maybe one other question I should have asked early. How much do you currently have in retirement?

>> Um my right probably around 350 350K

across 401k, Roth, and and others.

>> [clears throat] >> I mean, yeah, I I can get on board with what George said. I think that if you can find a way to either cash flow this or not go beyond the three months, I think that that's a fair I think that's a fair play on this.

>> Otherwise, you're going to call us back three years from now and say, "You guys told me not to get it, and I could have made $100,000." >> I know. You know, it's like one of those things, though. There's so when I when I

look at all the companies out there who

are trying to go public and and make that transition, it's like then you go, "Well, gosh, this really is a tossup.

You really don't know." >> Yeah. I've got a friend who's in that exact situation. They have all of these these paper stocks that aren't worth anything yet, but one day they could be, and it could be their future nest egg, or it could be nothing. Like, that's basic.

Now, we're just playing the lottery. >> Yeah. It's a It's a lottery play. And at that point, because of his baby, let's kind of break this down what the logic is.

Because of his baby step, um, in many ways and because of the net worth that he's built, uh, I think in many ways he could take that money. It's like buying a car. Can you take this and kind of just burn it and it not really affect you? I think he's right on the line of that being the case.

>> Yeah, he makes a great income. If he was in debt, I'm not going to say, well, don't pay off the debt stock. But because he is in a good spot, good financial foundation, it's it's a risk that he can actually take. >> Yeah, I agree with that.

All right, very very good question.

there is not a Oh, there it is. Dylan is

in Baton Rouge. Here we go. I was about to say, all right, Dylan, how can we help? >> Hi, I'm uh I'm just wondering if I should drain most of my savings to pay off our only non-mortgage debt.

um drain most of your savings to pay off your only non-mortgage debt. I'm going to go with yes, but tell us more so that we can run this thing back and make it interesting. [laughter] >> Okay. Um well, the debt the only non-mortgage debt is uh my truck which is at $24,524

is left owed on it and we have

about $39,000 total in savings. >> What kind of savings? It's not retirement, is it?

>> No, it uh 31,000 is in a high yield

savings account and then about 6,000 is

in a regular savings.

>> Okay. It's a no-brainer for me. I'm paying off the truck yesterday. Why haven't you paid it off so far?

>> Um well, mainly because my wife is apprehensive about it because she sees

the the amount that we have in savings and dropping it down drastically scares her. She wasn't apprehensive when you got a $40,000 truck that went down in value as soon as you drove it off the lot with a giant payment. >> We weren't married at the time.

>> Oh, okay. I see.

>> She goes, "Hey, that that was a a previous life. That's his problem." >> And now it's it's y'all's savings. And she goes, "I don't want to see that gone to your past, you know, mistakes."

>> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I would do it and rebuild because the truth is on paper >> in an accounting spreadsheet, you're not you don't actually have 39,000. Yeah, you got 15. >> You got 15. And so even left with 15,000, you're in a great spot. You're completely debtree. 15,000 in the bank and then you can rebuild your savings in no time. Even with just your truck payment. What's your truck payment?

>> 626 a month.

>> You just got a raise. Tell your wife, "Hey, I just got an extra 625 bucks a

month net take-home pay." >> Man, >> she's gonna be real happy.

>> Yeah. >> And she's How'd you do that? Uh, I paid off the truck. >> Mhm.

And the truth will be told how if if she's willing to immediately take that entire $629 and put it back into savings or if suddenly there becomes a need for,

I don't know, some new jewelry or like a nice bag or [laughter] >> Yeah, that's $7,500 extra you have in your budget every year.

>> She wants a trip to Disney. So >> ah >> 7,500 bucks will get you there for probably three days, but it'll get you there. >> Right. >> My wife too. We'll go at the same time, Dylan. How about that? It sounds great.

Can't wait to meet you. [laughter] >> Congrats on the truck payoff.

>> Yes. And thank you for the question.

>> I feel like you know the old boat quote, the best day of your life is the day you buy the boat and the next best day is the day you sell the boat. >> Listen, the maintenance loan. Yeah.

>> The the best of your life is the day you get that truck and the next best one is when you sell that you sell it or you pay it off. >> I'll take the payoff. I'll take the payoff. >> He likes the truck. And here's the other parameter. If if all the things with wheels and motors is more than half your annual income, you got a problem.

>> Yeah. And and there's a reason that we say that because vehicles are going down in value constantly, especially if it's something that's brand new. Oh my goodness, never buy a brand new car, people. Unless you're a millionaire, the amount of value that's lost just in year 1 is astronomical. And so we're really,

these are parameters. These are kind of rules of thumb that we we live by and teach by here. But it's so good. Uh so

say it again, George. If the >> you want to make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life, that's bikes, cars, trucks, boats, you name it. No more than half your household income is tied up in those things. If you make 50 grand, no more than 25 grand.

You make [music] 100 grand, no more than 50 grand, >> just so you don't have too much of your world wrapped up in things going down in value. >> That's right. You can take the hit.

So that again when you take that hit of depreciation because you will take the hit like Mike Tyson you can actually it's a nick. It's a nick.

[music]

[music]

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Or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Shannon is in Denver, Colorado. Shannon, how can George and I help you out today?

>> Hi. [clears throat] My daughter recently got um out of a relationship that she was in for about 3 years. While she was in that relationship, they acquired an

enormous amount of debt together, although they were not married. We have about 70 80,000 in vehicle loans, 15,000

in credit card, and about 20,000 in um a

business loan. Her boyfriend had quit his job to when the owner sold the

business so he could branch out and open his own. And the majority of the vehicles are upside down on their loans because he took additional equity to uh start

his new business.

Um now that they are no longer together,

she is a co-signer on all of this stuff.

>> Oh boy. He is a single mom of two

and um he has no verifiable or

income because the business is so new and he is in with a partner. She is the only one that has verifiable income and

it's not that much. So, we're not sure.

She's um contacted a couple attorneys.

Nobody wants to really work with her to get it to where her name is off these loans. Um, I know it can be very difficult, but we're wondering if she should probably file bankruptcy to get her out of all of this debt that she actually has no benefit of.

>> Oh boy. Um, and you've already run this

by attorneys to see if there's anything there to maybe legally split this or do something and and nobody will touch it.

They really don't want to because where he is the primary loan holder and she is

the co-signer, even if they get a

judgment, >> the banks don't necessarily want to take her off as the co-signer.

>> Well, they know how risky this is. They like her on there. They want someone else on the hook.

>> Um, >> absolutely. >> Um, tell us about the cars. You said they're both upside down. How how badly and how many are there?

>> [clears throat] >> There currently are three vehicles. Um I

believe it's a 22 Chevy Silverado that has about 50,000 that's owed on it. In

addition to the vehicle loan, there was also a trailer for a motorcycle as well as motorcycle. I do not believe that has

extra equity. I believe that is just straight for those those three pieces of property. They have a Hyundai, a 24

Hyundai um that is only valued at

33,000, but they got an additional 7,000

to put into his business.

>> She had a Toyota Corolla that was paid off. It's an older Corolla.

>> Um they went in and got a $9,000 loan on

it. The car is not worth, but maybe about 4,000.

>> So they owe nine and it's worth four.

>> Correct. And let's go back to the the Hyundai. She owes 33. What's the Hyundai worth?

>> It's worth 33. They owe 40.

>> Okay. Um and then let's go back to the

first one, the $50,000 one. They owe 50.

And what's that one worth?

>> It's probably worth around 45 to 50. It

is a very nice Chevy Silverado Club pickup. >> And you're telling me the trailer and the motorcycle are worth nothing?

Um, it's a dirt bike trailer.

>> Okay. >> For uh racing dirt bikes, it's it would maybe be worth $3,000 in our area in the market. >> Yes, we need that. And what about the motorcycle or the dirt bike? [snorts]

>> That's that's probably the the motorcycle and the trailer might bring four or five out of them >> to combined them together.

>> Okay. >> Correct. So, what I'd want to know, um,

what what I'd be seeking out next is if

she can sell these items, uh, being the

co-signer, and that's what I'd want a judge to approve. Hey, we can't find this guy. We can't track him down. He has no income. This is destroying her credit. Can we have the ability for

where he's at? >> Okay. >> He will not cooperate.

>> Right? And that's why I'm saying, can we get a judge to order it?

Okay, >> that's what I'd check on. I don't know if they will because what's taken place is totally legal. She co-signed on on on debt, which is honestly and I mean you you already know this is just one of the worst things that you can do because you're on the line. That's the whole point. If this guy doesn't pay, I'm saying I will. That's what you're saying when you cosign. So there's nothing

except him being a scumbag. There's nothing illegal going on here. there's nothing quote wrong going on here. Um,

so it's going to be hard, but I would at least try to say I'd try to go before a judge and say, "This person's not paying. >> Here's what it's doing to me. Can we sell these assets so that we can Mhm.

clear that >> that is an issue we're running up against is he is making monthly payments but at the rate that he's making these monthly payments if if he ever stops she

doesn't know until it's too late >> if he um her name's on the vehicles as

well um so she can't go get something

independently of him and he has come and taken her vehicle while she was at work.

>> Well, how can he do that?

Is she driving one of these? She >> has an extra key.

>> Oh, she's driving one of these. She's driving the Corolla.

>> She's driving the Hyundai at this time.

>> Okay. >> Are they both on the insurance for all these vehicles?

>> From what we understand, yes. But at any time, he could take her off the insurance and she would have no knowledge.

>> Why is that? If she's also on it as well, >> because they are not currently together.

It's his insurance agent. Um, >> is is he trying to actively destroy her life at this point? Like where where's his head at? >> Basically, they they have he left her

one month after they had a child together. He has not ordered to pay um

he pays [clears throat] $100 a month for child support. That's what >> And they have told her ordered by the courts >> if she can Yes. if she contests it

because he does not have verifiable income, she may end up having to pay him. >> This is a nightmare. I'm so sorry.

>> 100%. Which is why we're wondering if

she files bankruptcy, would that get her out from under as co-signer from all of this? So, at least she doesn't end up with all this on her lap.

>> Well, the bankruptcy is not going to help much cuz they're going to liquidate all the cars and if they get repoed, she's going to be on the hook for the difference. they're going to sell it at auction for nothing and then she's going to owe even more while her financial

life gets destroyed for seven to 10 years from the bankruptcy. So, I don't love that option. I would try to see how

we can get her out of this these individual situations one by one and get her income up enough to where she could pay them if she had to.

>> Okay. >> And I would try to get up. You're about 15 grand underwater on all these vehicles. Obviously, she needs something reliable to drive and obviously we need the ability to find this car and be able to sell it, which that's going to be the difficult part cuz he's got most of these toys, doesn't he?

>> Um, [clears throat] he has everything. He h she has access to the Hyundai and the Toyota. Um, but

you know, she would love to sell the Toyota. She can't because of this loan that's on it. >> Um, she has told him, "Come get the Hyundai. I will go out and buy something that, you know, I can afford so I can make my own payment, but she can't with her credit wrapped up and all of that.

>> Yeah. Well, she could drive the Corolla, right? If she sold the Hyundai, she could do that. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, if we at least get out of those two, it solves some problems here cuz that's that at least alleviates some of this pain when you owe 33 on one and nine on the other, which means you need to come up with 12 grand to get out from underwater on this and then you can keep the Corolla. >> Yeah. And what about the credit cards?

Are those still actively going? Because I'd want to make sure that those are shut down and that more money is not able to be rung up on those.

>> I would freeze her credit so that no accounts can be opened under her name and social security number as well.

>> Mhm. And the same thing with this business loan. Her biggest job right now is to work hard to save. I mean, she is on the hook for this money. So, [music] let's let's earn $20,000 and start knocking out debt and make sure it can't come back to haunt us later on by freezing the credit.

>> [music]

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Right back to the phone lines where Harrison is in Augusta, Georgia. Hi

Harrison, what's up in your world?

>> Yes, thank you all so much for taking my call. So my wife and I are in our late30s with two kids under three. I

make about 3,000 a year and my wife makes about 30,000 and together we've got about $100,000 in non-mortgage debt.

mostly vehicles and credit cards. And after doing our budget, um realizing we're running about a $2,200 a month deficit, >> and I I feel completely trapped. I have no idea what to do. I've realized we've built our our life outside of our financial reality, and it's just kind of snuck up on us. And I just I could use some help. >> Yeah. My G Listen, I'm gonna tell you right now, I gotta believe that a lot of that red is in the cars. Am I wrong or am I right?

>> Yes, you're right. >> So, tell us about the cars. How many are there? And tell us what the payments are. Tell us what you owe on them.

>> Yeah, so I have two vehicles. I have a truck that I owe about 14,000 on. That

payment's about 30 um $325 a month.

>> Okay. >> And then I have a SUV that's worth that I owe about $30,000 on. And that monthly

payment is $560 a month. Okay. Honestly,

I'm going to tell you that's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Although, I still don't like the car payment. What else is sending you guys, you know, over $1,000 over? When you look at the budget, what do you find are the key contributors?

>> So, it's mostly I mean, I'm paying $1,950 a month for daycare.

>> Um, and that's killing me. And then my mortgage is a little over $2,100 a

month. So, I really I really put myself in a house that we probably should not have bought. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> what's your actual take-home pay every month?

>> 6,500. >> Oh, wow. >> That feels low. Is is investing coming out?

>> Um, so it was I was putting about 5%

into my 401. Um, I just actually paused

that this week. Um, I'm trying to, you know, do whatever I can to come up with some cash. downloaded the Every Dollar app and then kind of going through that and just trying to figure out find some solutions here. >> So, you said you have a h 100,000 of non-mortgage debt. I'm I'm counting 44,000 in car loans. Does that mean you have $56,000 in credit cards?

>> So, I have about 25,000 in credit cards.

Um I have about 10,000 in a personal loan and about 5,000 in medical debt.

>> Okay. Have you and your wife sat down and and made an every dollar budget and just kind of put this all on paper to get the reality of it?

>> So, I have and you know, I've tried to talk with her multiple times and and she kind of shuts down. Um, and it's hard for her to kind of see the reality. And, you know, >> is she overwhelmed >> and trying to absolutely she's overwhelmed. Well, the the truth is if she's making 30,000 after taxes, after everything, that's not covering daycare >> hard. It's I mean, it's it's it's breaking even. >> 30,000. Yeah. Like that 30,000 is from a

photography business. It's all under the table. Um but you're right, it's it's

barely covering daycare. >> But is that what's keeping her I guess what I'm saying is regardless of how it's being paid or who she's working for, she's out making money. And is that the thing that's keeping her from obviously I'm not saying everybody has to be a stay-at-home wife. Just hear that. I'm just saying I'm trying to solve a math problem here. If she were to stay home, um that's something that

might pull this back a little bit and maybe she can stay home and do photography and just shift those hours to where do you see what I'm saying?

There's more of a benefit to it.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Cuz if she could do that nights and weekends and watch the kids during the day, well, now we have a problem solved because we've kept some income in the door while getting back our daycare money, $1,950 a month, which gets you to more like a $300 deficit. And that's without paying off any of your debts. >> Have you guys talked about that?

>> We have talked about it and honestly, we've tried it a couple times and it just did not go very well. she was she

struggled with keeping both kids at home and and trying to work. And so, you know, we kind of came up with a plan that, hey, you know, this is a new business. Let's get the kids in daycare and give you a real shot to really grow this business and see where it can go.

>> How long has it been? You know, so she's she's only been doing this about 6 months. >> Okay. So, here's where I'm at with this.

Um, there's three things there's three options on the table here. Um, and a couple of them are a must. Number one, we have to sell the vehicles. Uh, at least one of them, at least a $30,000 SUV, um, has to go out the door. The

other thing is she either needs to choose between I'm going to do this uh part-time and stay home with the kids and try to bring in as much as I can in part-time hours or I'm going to find a

job or make this job grow in a hurry to

be to where I'm making more than $30,000 because you guys are and and the same goes for you too. Like you got to find ways to get your income up. even if it's side hustling, if it's overtime, you guys are up against uh some very scary

numbers here.

>> And you cannot and and mind you, we're

not even talking about paying off debt yet. We're just talking about getting you out of the red. We're we haven't even found them. These are just things to get you out of the red. This is not extra margin. And >> just baseline where you can cover all the bills cuz right now, are you using the credit cards to fund that gap?

>> Yes. Yeah, that's what we've been doing.

But see, it's coming to a head because my limits are about up and I, you know, at some point it's all going to come crashing down. >> And that's why I say it's not a and that's why I say speaking with her, this is not it's not personal. It's not h having to do with anything with her photography business. This is math and this is numbers and this is us adulting and saying this is what must be done in this season.

>> We need to go from I'm scared to I'm angry cuz that tells me now we can solve the problem. And so if you can get her there, you know her better than anyone, and just level with her and say, "Hey, listen. I know I'm overwhelmed, too, but we're going to get through this together.

We have the every dollar budget. And if you don't have the premium version, we'll gift it to you, Harrison." If you hang on the line, that'll connect to your bank account. That'll give you all the personalized recommendations. And I think once you see the reality and you can look past the fear and the overwhelm, you guys will go, "Okay, we can see a path out." And you just got to focus on one thing at a time. That's the baby steps. $1,000 cash. Do you have that in the bank right now?

>> I do. >> Good. >> Then it's going to be attacking all of our debts, smallest to largest. So, what's your smallest debt? What's the next smallest balance you have?

>> Um, it's about $420.

>> Great. Now, can we knock that out if we worked extra and cut our lifestyle down to nothing?

>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> So, then at least you freed up that one payment and so now you see some light at the end of this tunnel and it's going to be a slog. I mean, this might be 3 to four years for you guys on this journey based on your income to debt ratio.

>> Yeah. Harrison, what do you owe on this SUV? You said you owe 30, but what's it worth? >> It's only worth about 21.

So, I'm underwater.

>> Okay. Um, deck gum it.

>> The truck The truck uh only owed 14 and

it's worth probably 16.

>> Okay. So, there there's some money there. Um, I would probably sell that one then and take the 2,000 and

uh buy a cheap truck. >> Uh-huh. Put a little money with it. See if you can cash flow a couple more thousand so maybe you can get a $4 or $5,000 deal. Um, >> that might mean kind of pausing the baby steps for a second to stack up that cash to get a a used car to replace that

truck to get you from A to B. >> Right. >> And what about your work? Let's find ways to quick make quick money for you. What do you do for a living?

So, I work for a building supply company running inventory and warehousing and then I also teach pottery classes on the side. >> Okay. Does your does the main job offer overtime?

>> No, I'm on salary.

>> Okay. >> And [snorts] what about the pottery? Is that is that a great side hustle for you or did you just pick it because you like it? Because if it doesn't pay a whole lot, we need to shift to doing something that really pays. >> Um, it could be. I mean, I've been doing it 20 years. I'm really really good at it. I just haven't spent much time doing it cuz it's, you know, with the two kids at home and >> Right. >> So, what do you make a month on average doing that?

>> Doing pottery. >> Yeah. >> About 600. >> And how many hours? >> All that's I'm working two hours once a

week, four weeks.

>> Okay. >> So, it's about eight hours a month.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we can pour gasoline on that. I think we could pump it up into high gear.

pretty good hourly rate on that if you can do more of that. >> Uh-huh. And if you can't do more of that, then tack on something else. And you might be having three or four different, you know, side hustles that bring in money here and there.

Same thing with her. But the point is, you guys [music] have got to get the heck out of Dodge. I got to hear some urgency.

And I'm [music] feeling like I got to move. We got to make changes. We got to shift. So guys, you you can do this, but

you're going to have to get uncomfortable. There's no way this is happening without [music] you guys getting extremely uncomfortable to do it.

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio.

Again, I'm here with George Camel. I'm Jade Warshaw. And we're headed back to the phone lines where we have Dan who is joining us from Fort Meyers, Florida.

Dan, how can George and I help you out today?

>> Yeah. So, my wife and I are start starting on the process of buying our first house and um our lender is suggesting we cash out our 401ks for the down payment. Oh, >> I'm trying hard not to laugh, Dan, because it's just so funny that a lender, of course, is like, "Hey, just cash out your retirement to make this happen." Come on. >> Just so I can get paid because I haven't in a while, [laughter] >> right? Right.

>> I mean, you do know that this is a horrible idea. I mean, your red flags went up, didn't they?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that was that was that was my my thought. I mean, um Yeah. Yeah.

So, >> let's play this out just just for kicks and giggles. Dan, how old are you?

I'm 30. >> Okay. You're 30. And how much are they telling you to cash out?

>> So, I've got about 22 in my Roths and my

wife's got about 14 or 16 in her uh

employer match. >> Okay. So, 22 and 16 is what you would have cashed out if you listened to your lender. >> Yeah. About 36. >> Okay. So, 36 grand. And I'm just going to play that out. If you left the 36 grand in, what it would turn into, which is how much you're losing if you did this move. Okay. And that's if you never added anything to it. Just 36 grand, letting it ride from 30 to 65.

>> That would turn into $1.2 million.

>> So this is not a $36,000 decision. It's a $1.2 million decision.

>> Absolutely. >> So that's the scary part. So that tells me though another thing. You may not be ready to buy this house.

>> Yeah. What took place that you guys even got to the point of discussing such madness?

So, yeah. So, we just moved to Florida

about three years ago. Um, we make about 140. Uh, we've got Yeah, we've got virtually no cash savings. So, that's the thing. >> We've got 30,000 in credit cards and 20,000 on her car.

>> Okay. I'm glad you told us that because around here, we really do. We love home ownership. We do. We love when people are ready to make that purchase. We love uh when people want to invest in 401ks.

We love being able to say yes to these things, but there is a time uh that it

creates a a much better timeline for this to be a blessing, a blessing for you versus a burden. And so, the way we teach it here is there's certain things that just have to be in line first. And one of those things is we're never going to recommend you buy a house while you're still in consumer debt. That is just you're just adding insult to injury because home ownership is expensive.

Number one, you're going into debt. Yes, it's different than normal consumer debt, but it's still debt and it's still a financial responsibility for you. So, we're always going to say, "Hey, you got to have your consumer debt paid off.

That's numero uno." And then after that, we want you to have an emergency fund because we all know that once you buy that house, something's going to happen.

>> Everything's on you. >> Yes. The roof is going to happen. The AC is going to happen. You're going to have pigeons that like to nest uh up in your

gutters. That happens to us all the time. And it's like you got to have the guy come out there and remove them. all that kind of crazy. >> That's outside of any family emergencies. >> Yeah. There's an ice storm and you got to have the arborist come up, right? And when you have debt, you can't cash flow that stuff. And then if you don't have savings, you can't pull from the savings for that stuff. And then the next thing you know, Dave, what do you or George, >> I appreciate that. She called me Dave.

>> Oh my lord. I looked at you and I just said, Dave, the next thing you know, what are you doing? You're going into debt. >> Further into credit card debt.

>> Credit card debt. So this we don't want that domino effect to take place. That's why there's actually reason to why we teach what we teach, George. >> So, is it too late to back out of this whole thing and just keep renting for a while as you kind of create a better financial foundation?

>> No, it's it's not too late. So, I mean, the the whole story, right? So, you've got about 10,000 in savings in cash savings, but so it's not a whole lot, but there's a little bit there.

>> where we're currently renting for $2 and half thousand dollars a month.

>> So, I mean, it's pretty we're already paying a high rental, you know, even being out in the boonies. >> Mhm. >> And then, you know, so with we just had a kid last year, so we're trying to move closer into town.

>> Rentals in town are about rentals in town, you know, closer into town by daycare is about three and a half a month. and that's about what the mortgage would be. Um, to play the devil's advocate on the on the cash out the 401k side of things, my wife's 401k match grew that in under three years in like two two and a half years. So, if we

replayed that scenario, ideally, we'd be

back at that same number within two and a half years. >> That's true. >> That could be true. You'll be there even if you didn't touch the retirement.

You'll add that if you kept where you're at. And so it's still you're still losing that 1.2 million that you unplugged >> and even though you're adding to it with the new 36 grand over time, it's still unplugging that growth for the rest of your life versus adding to it. So I still think it's a and you're you're making a you're also going to pay penalties and fees as well.

>> Yeah, we didn't talk about that. >> That's that's aside from that. And so I I think you guys are tired of the commute. You want to be homeowners. And the truth is we made decisions that just has kind of put us two steps back with the car loan and the credit cards. Like you guys are making 140 grand and you still had to turn to the credit card. So it tells me we need to get our current income under control before we step into this new chapter.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean so I mean the the the

income is under under control. The 30 that that debt's been there for a few years now. We've just >> That's even scarier. That's at 25% APR.

>> Yeah. So, and we've just been, you know, paying that. So, we've actually been living on a cash, you know, a cash budget for for a few years now.

>> I I also want to call out another part of this and and again, I don't want to sound like I'm here to bust your bubble.

That's not what I'm trying to do. I want to give you fair numbers so that whenever this all goes down, it feels good and you can actually keep it. But with your if you're bringing home 9,000 a month, doing a $3,500 mortgage is not

good for you. That's way too high for you. It's $1,000 over where it should be.

>> Ideally, you're sitting at about 2,200, which means you need to have more saved up for the down payment to then lower the mortgage or choose a different home that's at a lower price point. So, there's going to have to be compromises.

Otherwise, you're going to be calling us back when maybe you lose one income or income goes down and all of a sudden you're going, "Hey, we can't afford to stay here anymore. We need to move or we can't invest 15% to retirement cuz this mortgage is killing us." >> And and hear it from this angle. you know, you called in saying your lender gave you some bad advice. They have money tacked on to that and so they're kind of driven by by, you know, making a commission. George and I have nothing.

We're completely un unbiased for you.

And so we're just looking at this as the numbers are there. We get no commission, we get nothing. And we can just look at this and go at the bottom line, Dan, is you're just not ready to buy a house.

You just don't have the money yet. And you can get there. And I think that you can get there pretty quickly. um relative to, you know, the span of your life.

But the day is not today. And maybe next year you could be ready, but the truth is you guys have $50,000 of debt that needs to be paid off. You need to stack up at least 3 to 6 months of expenses. And then >> so that's probably like an $80,000 swing before we even start saving up a down payment, which is probably anotherundred grand.

>> Yeah. >> Right. But I think you knew in your heart that this was a bad decision.

Hence why you called our show.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was I was thinking, you know, I probably got to go find 80 80 grand or so. >> I mean, the cool thing is my I'm self-employed. I own a construction business and I've been, you know, the limit for you. >> Sky's the limit for you to add, you know, 30 to 40,000 a year.

>> Go bust it, man. Your income is your greatest wealth building tool. So, let's use it to pay off the debt, get the emergency fund, get the down payment. If you really want that home, prove it. Pay off the debt and get yourself to a good financial spot.

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Headed back to the phone lines where we find Samantha who's in Miami, Florida.

What's going on Samantha? How you doing?

>> Hi, I'm doing great. How about you guys?

>> Excellent. How can we help?

>> I am calling because um my husband and I love the Dave Ramsey show. We watch it all the time on YouTube and I am trying

to convince my husband to let us buy a new iPhone for me. Um my iPhone does kind of work, but it's not fully functioning. Apple Pay doesn't work. Um it doesn't connect to my watch. But I do tend to kind of break things. I don't think super fast to the average, but compared to my husband, he is like he takes care of all his technology. His iPhone's like 5 years old, you know.

Mine's about about to turn three.

>> Okay. >> Um and I want a new one.

>> Okay. So, it doesn't connect to Apple Pay and it doesn't connect to your Eyewatch. >> And it's only three years old.

>> Yes. Uh yeah, it's three years old. It's fallen a few times. I work in an industry where I move around a lot. I travel a lot. So, By fallen, you mean you've dropped it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. [laughter] It didn't trip on its own is what we're asking. Okay.

>> Samantha frequently falls out of my hand, though. >> Let me tell you, Samantha, if you could have been in the commercial break, George was making fun of me because my iPhone is so destroyed. It is just It's

been It's fallen many times. It's completely cracked. and I am on your side on doing our best and it's still not being enough with these iPhones. So,

>> let's talk through. You're talking to a former Apple Store employee and it hurts my heart when I see an iPhone fall. It's like dropping a baby to me almost as

bad. >> I drop I drop babies pretty frequently.

>> Oh gosh. Samantha, >> are you dropping babies? Your own babies or other folks babies?

>> Just the iPhone. Just the iPhone.

>> Okay, good. Don't give Samantha [laughter] a baby. All right. So, you're I get I understand your husband's frustration and he's going, "Why would we get you a new one for you to then make it an old broken one very quickly?"

>> Exactly. >> What's a new iPhone run these days?

>> I haven't bought a brand new one.

>> The Pro The Pro Max one or the Pro I was

looking at was $1,100. >> Why are you looking at the Pro Max? It's like knowing you get into car wrecks a lot and going, "I'll take the Porsche, please." >> Oh, boy. $1,100. Well, even the least

even the least expensive one, I think, was around $700.

>> But can't you get can't you get a an older model? >> I'm looking right now on Swapa, which is a >> I've sold my old phones on Swapa. So, you can buy it an iPhone 16 in in great condition for 350 bucks.

>> Oh, love that.

>> And what would be the problem with that, Samantha? >> New one.

>> Cuz I just wanted the new one. >> There we go. Thank you for your honesty, Samantha. She just wants >> So, it went from my phone doesn't work to no, I just want the fanciest, latest, and greatest.

>> If I'm going to get the new phone, I just want the new phone. >> Well, let's see. Can you even afford it? So, tell us tell us, is this something that you could do and it's just not a thing or if it's something that would really set you back? Do you guys have any debt?

>> We have no debt uh for baby steps. We're on baby step six.

>> Oh, just the mortgage? >> Just our house. >> Okay. How much is in the emergency fund?

uh a year.

>> A year's worth. >> Almost a year. >> How much does that equate to?

>> That's like Well, if you include like some of our investments, I guess if it's just purely cash on the emergency fund, then six months. Okay. >> So, it's about 60K. And then we also have some investments because liquidated there was a bigger emergency. And brokerage invest >> brokerage accounts. And when we do invest almost 30% of our income annually

gets either what's your net worth? Roth IRA all the things. What's your >> um about a million? A million.

>> Okay. So So old boy is is being a little

stingy. >> I have an idea. Samantha, what iPhone does your husband have?

>> So he's his work pays for his and he just got the newest one after having his for 5 years. >> Okay. What happened to his old phone?

He cracked the screen.

>> Oh, >> see what here's where this is what we

really need to discuss. >> Five years. He had it for five years.

>> But what what we really need to set as a baseline and we need to know what is a norm of keeping your phone? Like what is the normal amount of time that a person should keep their phone before they upgrade? >> We were just out in the lobby and the it was an iPhone with the single lens. It must have been an iPhone 4 and it was working great cuz they took care of it.

Okay, George, we need to hear because we don't know unless the people speak. So, if you're watching this in the comments, put what is a normal amount of time to have your phone before you upgrade? Is it 3 years? Is it 5 years? Is it every

year? >> I would like to know. >> As long until it just literally doesn't work anymore. >> So, for the audience, is 3 years a fair time? >> I see one person said 10 years, one said five. I'm seeing another five. Two.

>> Two. Three. Okay. So, I think that we're in it seems like we're in the threshold anywhere between two to five years you should be able to upgrade your phone.

I'm I agree Samantha.

>> So, you can upgrade it. Here's my condition if I'm your husband. Day one, we are getting a screen protector on there and an Otterbox case that is indestructible. [laughter] >> The ugliest cases. >> The ugliest, biggest case you can find to protect it. Cuz the truth is, I doubt you've had screen protectors and good cases on your phones this whole time. >> Oh, yeah. And even if she has like just double down on it because >> you need it. Put it inside of a bag.

>> I am Mr. Like I'm I'm proudly my my phone is like perfect at all times. I take care of it. A screen protector at all times. Always in a case. People who you know how I know someone's rich?

Their iPhone is nude.

>> Oh, >> no case. No screen protector. I go, you can't hide money >> cuz you just they it's it doesn't matter if they shatter it tomorrow. They'll just >> I can spot a trust fund kid a mile away if they've got an iPhone with no case on. slick. You can't even get a good grip on it to hold it.

>> You're living on the edge and you and there's >> Well, >> total confidence. >> Total confidence. I can just go and ride through and get another be a little more with your phones, guys. It's You're carrying a $1,000 device.

>> Yeah. >> You wouldn't do that with your laptop. >> I've never had the brand new phone. I've never [clears throat] had the most brand new phone ever. >> I'm proud of you. >> I don't even know which one this one is, but it ain't the It's got two holes.

>> Well, you know what's nice? I buy old ones off my co-workers, you know, as they upgrade and they'll sell them on our little forums or whatever. So, ask around. I mean, Facebook Marketplace, don't get scammed there, but Swapa is another one. There's a bunch of cell phone >> sites to to sell old phones, buy buy used phones. >> So, all of that really helps cuz I don't want to overpay. >> So, uh, if I go to the Apple store, I I feel like I get them at the Apple store.

I get an older one. >> You can get refurbished. They'll have them refurbished, >> but it's cheaper on swap up, >> 100%. Refurbished is just a little bit cheaper than new.

>> Interesting. And there's more that you can choose from on there. >> Yeah. >> Interesting.

>> And it's all, you know, legit. Not a sponsor, but, you know, it's just a side. >> They ought to be. >> Hit us up.

Swapa. >> Okay. So, do you think it's fair that, you know, obviously some people like Samantha and myself, we drop them more often. Even if you hadn't dropped it, even if you just had the phone for 3 years and you were like, you know what, I'd like to see what the newer model looks like.

>> Yeah. If you budget for it, you pay cash. I mean, you might need a scing fund these days because of how expensive these things are. If it's a thousand bucks and you need one every two or three years, >> you know, 50 bucks a month you got to set aside.

>> This is a loophole that a lot of people do. Do you want to know what they do? They, you know, when they're AT&T or Verizon, >> what do they do?

>> Oh, yikes. That's my least favorite option. >> They just add it into the It's just you into their contracts. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, there's some golden handcuffs there.

So, never think, "Well, it's super cheap. I just pay it every month." That's what they want you to do. >> I can I tell you I got I kind of got tricked because I didn't know. So this was several several years back. I was going I got a notice on my phone that was like time to upgrade. And to me when it's like it's time to upgrade I'm thinking okay I'm just upgrading my phone. It's time to just swap them. Swap them. >> There you go. >> And uh I didn't even realize because

they just did one phone for another. And then I realized it was in my bill. Oh,

they snuck. >> It was just automatically. And so all of a sudden one day our phone bill went down and I was like, why did our phone bill go down and I realized I'd been paying payments on the phone and I didn't even know it. >> Wow, that is brutal. The other thing I need to mention is that a lot of people think, well, my phone is broken, it doesn't work anymore. No, it's just user error because you put so much crap on that phone, it can't function anymore.

>> Too much some space. And so resetting your phone and cleaning it, you'll feel like you got a new phone. Just like with a car, get your car detailed and that car fever will go away pretty quickly.

>> You know what though? Some people that's just their thing. Like if it weren't for Sam Wars on our house, I would have no dealings with the technology. Like he does all that stuff. I get frustrated.

One thing doesn't work. I'm like, "That stupid phone." And he just walks by and pushes one button and it's all fixed. >> See, me and Sam were tech support.

>> Tech support. Every every household needs a tech support. I could tell it was you in your house. >> I can't use a a you know screwdriver, but I can fix your Wi-Fi. No problems.

[laughter] >> Tech support. We need it.

[music]

>> [music]

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Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsay principles. And so today we're going to talk about some of the most asked questions that you guys ask Ramsay. Um we get questions all the time around budgeting, paying off debt, but this time the top question was around retirement savings. George, as a matter of fact, the most asked question was this. How do I know if I have enough saved to retire?

>> Well, the simple answer that you will hate is, you know, you have enough saved to retire when your retirement income can cover your retirement lifestyle without depending on social security.

So, figure out how much you'll need to live on each month in retirement, which easier said than done because we don't know what inflation's going to be. Will social security be there? How much will it be? >> Health care costs, all of that.

But to the best of your ability, go, okay, here's what I'm living on now. Here's what I think it'll be, you know, 10, 20, 30 years from now. Then list all of your expected income streams. Hopefully, if you follow our plan, you've got the 401ks, IRA, maybe even a pension.

And if your monthly income is close to or above that expected monthly spending, you are probably on track. And if there's a gap that tells me you need to lower the lifestyle, you need to increase how much you're saving now or plan to work part-time in a retirement, uh, not a bad idea. So important call outs though. Be debt free before in retirement.

to pay off the house. Make sure you have everything paid off before you head into retirement. Plan for those health care costs. Be on a written retirement budget, not just vibes.

>> Yeah. Not just a guess. That's so good.

And Ask Ramsey. It can really help you walk through a retirement planning checklist to make sure that you have your retirement savings uh that can actually float you and your lifestyle in retirement. So again, ask your question today at askramseysseysolutions.com

or you can just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Again, if you want to ask Ramsey your question, go to ramsysolutions.com.

All right, we got Jeff who's in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey Jeff, how can we help out today? >> Hey guys. Well, I have a question um

about my career and I was wondering if you guys could help. So, I've been with the same company for almost 13 years and

we are in kind of the restoration cleaning industry.

The plan for my future was that I'm to

take over the company. Um, we have no

written contract. There's no written agreement. It's just something that somebody told me. Uh, but lately I've

found a lot of moral and ethical disparity uh between my owner and I. And my question for you is, do I hang on and wait until I can take over or is it time

to just go ahead and move on?

>> Ooh. Well, I would love to know the moral and ethical cuz that sounds very serious. Is it like crimes are being committed or they're just doing things in a way you wouldn't?

>> Um, not as far as the world is concerned. Uh, biblically, a little bit.

Um, essentially in this industry, I'm

not I'm not about giving people money to give me work or people that give me work, me give them money back. And that has started to happen after 16 years of

this company never spending a dollar on

marketing at all. We're now paying off a

person to quote unquote give us work that that's just not profitable.

>> So, you're paying a marketer.

Oh, no. This is paying um essentially a

maintenance guy to approve contracts

or approve bids that we that we offer up to them.

>> Okay. >> What is that doing for the company? What's the upside?

>> I will quote, we have to do what we have to do to get work. And that's that's

what I was told this is all about.

However, um, >> am I missing something on the moral part of this or the ethical? Help me understand. I I feel like I'm missing something. >> So, there's a person who's helping you get contracts and they're approving whether the bids are are good enough.

>> No, essentially, this is a maintenance guy that works for somebody who has the

ability to approve or deny estimates for this property. and my company paid that

man $7,000 in an attempt to get him to approve more of our estimates. >> So, it's a basically a bribe. >> A bribe.

>> That's a That's a perfect way to put it.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah, that makes more sense. I was I I needed that clarity. Okay. So, you're bribing they're they're bribing this guy. If we pay you a little money on the side, you'll approve us more more clientele more projects.

>> Okay. You don't like the way that's being done. That makes sense. Um, the part that I'm really wondering about is you said people are talking about me taking over the company, but there's neither contracts nor paper trail for this. I would need more uh if >> I would need like a a date in writing versus a just a vibe of like, well, maybe when the time comes, you could take it over. >> Can you have that conversation?

>> We've had the conversation several times. Uh, it's loose-ended. There's no definition. There's no timeline. There's

no payment there. None of that stuff is

discussed. And we're talking a company that may value somewhere around $350,000.

>> Okay. Um >> if this was a significant other in your life and [snorts] we're talking about commitment and marriage, you would go, "Hey, clearly she's not that into you."

>> If she's kicking the tires going, "Yeah, maybe we'll get married. Uh we'll see about that." It might just be a way to keep you keep you warm, like keep you on, you know, on their side and keep you as an employee cuz maybe they know that you don't like the way things are going.

>> And you've addressed it, it sounds like, cuz they gave you the answer of, hey, we got to do what we got to do.

>> That's it. And and this has been addressed many times. Um, I feel exactly

like that that they're trying to keep me on a hook for a while until the day comes and and then we just cut the line.

So that question is I've already kind of formed up an LLC and before I just start

really moving forward with it, my question is do I maintain what I'm doing now?

>> Well, >> and try to cold start my LLC or do I just jump right into this thing? >> Well, yeah, that's a whole different question because I, you know, you we're there's income on the line here, right?

So, how much are you earning now? >> Yep. >> It's it's minimal. I make 60 a year.

>> 60 a year. And how quickly do you think you could generate that same profit from you starting up your own business?

>> I would need about six, maybe seven

months. >> Is there any part of this business that you can do ethically while you're still

working for your boss?

>> Absolutely. Nights and weekends.

>> Oh, okay. >> And it's on conflict with any contract you signed to like a non-compete.

>> Absolutely. I don't have a non-compete.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's >> then there's nothing wrong with you going, "Hey, it's it's my time. When the time is right, I'm going to go launch this thing on the side." But I don't think in good faith you can continue working for this person because of the soul tax that you're paying right now.

The resentment building up. I mean, it's going to eat you alive. It's a poison that you're drinking every day you stay here knowing this business is not being run ethically.

>> Fair. you're not excited to go to work for a guy who does that >> who you're not align in the values and so for that reason I would get out as soon as possible even if you go work for someone else in the meantime while you get this thing off the ground. >> Do you think you could find someone else to go work for quickly?

>> I well unfortunately uh for this company

about 80% of our book of business comes through my phone. It's it's my contacts my people friends etc family. So the the

work for me won't stop. It just it will just go through. >> What happens when you divert those leads to your new business versus them and their business hurts even more.

>> Unfortunately, they're the ones calling me. I'm I'm not in control of who, you know, whether they choose the old company or the new company.

>> But you're going to tell them, "Hey, I actually started my own thing if you're interested." >> So if realistically, how many leads do you think would come with you? And how much money is that? like how much could you have on the table within your first 30 to 60 days?

>> First 30 to 60 days with a cold start, not necessarily having everything together. I could probably I could probably pull together 25 to 40,000 in

in project work pretty quickly.

>> And that turns into how much in profits? Does that replace your current monthly income?

>> Oh, it would absolutely blow my current income out of the water. >> I think this is going to happen faster than you think. I think you try this for a month or two and realize, "Oh, okay. I can do this repeatedly with stability." >> Absolutely.

And because here's the thing, you might just flip it. Usually, it's the opposite. We say, "Okay, you know, do this other job while you build the business, but I think you can build the business. And if you have extra time, yeah, sure, you could work a side hustle and fill in gaps, but I don't even think you need to do that.

There's no non-compete, so there's nothing ethically here. Um, >> you just want to run a business differently. >> I'm all for it. and you want to do it the right way. I think that's really really good and we're rooting for you.

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Well, it's my favorite time of the show, George, where we get to talk about my favorite budgeting app, which is Every Dollar. And uh one of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how every dollar is helping them win. As a matter of fact, we have this from a fan. They said, "It's just being able to use every dollar and see all the extra we have every single month." It was super motivating.

We'd have thousands of dollars just we'd have thousands of dollars extra and just throw it on the mortgage. And hey, I think that's amazing. And you can do the same thing, too.

You can change your family tree. And you can live like no one else. So, start every dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. Matt is in

Phoenix, Arizona. Matt, you are on the line, my friend.

>> Hey, hey guys. How are you doing? >> Doing good. >> What's up? >> I am at a weird crossing point. Um, we

are in baby step two and we have no consumer debt left. We just have our mortgage which is at 416 thou 416,000

and we have 75,000 in student loans left

at 8%. >> Okay. >> Um we are trying to figure out uh we

have 50,000 in the bank too.

>> How much?

>> Uh what's that? >> How much do you have in the bank?

>> Uh 50,000. >> 50. Okay. Um we're trying to figure out

if we should pay the um student loans

right now. And the only reason I would be second questioning it in the in the the process of all this is because in our mortgage is um the PMI uh high the

mortgage insurance which is $250 a month. >> Our student loan payment is 117 a month.

So, in order to get our PM PMI insurance

off, we would have to pay $70,000 right around there on our mortgage to drop that off. >> So, my thought process was, do I pay the

70 on the mortgage to drop that down so I can roll that extra 250 towards the student loan since it's uh more than double the student loan payment >> and then tackle that? or do I just keep

keep trucking along and knock out the student loans and then keep going from there? Um, >> it's a fair question. I I mean, you're looking at um you're looking at what

you'll receive back. So, you're looking at the payment in essence more so than the balance itself of the consumer debt.

Um, and I understand that if I were in your shoes, because really when we're talking about the the mortgage, that really is a baby six activity, baby step six activity. And so I would continue on

with the student loans because there's $75,000 of these bad boys. You got to knock this out. The good news is you have $49,000 that you can put towards that cause and I would totally do that.

Um I would totally do that.

>> My guess is you're knocking out a bunch of student loans in the process, right?

>> Yeah. >> Because they're broken up. So you're going to free up a whole lot of payments, too. >> Yeah. How have you done the calculation?

How much is that?

Um, as far as interest, >> if you pay off the the $50,000 of the smallest loans right now, how many payments would that free up? What does that amount to each month?

>> Um, that I have not calculated.

>> That's a better calculation, I think, than the minimum payment on the student loans. >> So, I would definitely tackle the student loans. I know the PMI sucks, but you're going to get there real fast if you knock out these student loans. What's your household income? >> Okay. >> Uh, 318,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> Oh, yeah. We'll knock out the student loans and the mortgage if you get control of this. >> Yeah. Over the course of this year, why wouldn't that be the goal to pay the to be out of baby step two? So 75,000 down

and then we're act like aggressively saving up three months of expenses.

We're and then from then we can aggressively uh put extra towards this PMI.

>> 100%. Yeah, we can definitely do it. We take home about anywhere from I'm on commission, but we take home about 14 to 17,000 after taxes every month.

>> Um, >> so we we've been aggressive. We paid off 120,000 in the last like 15 months.

Excellent. >> So, we've been we got everything all the consumer stuff out of the way. Um, the only monkey wrench here is in about 12

months my wife is going to um we're

going to have her stay at home and just raise the kids. >> Okay. And so we're going to lose about $68,000 in the income. And

um we would um we would our take-home after taxes would just be around 13 to 14,000. Okay.

>> But um but then after we put on health

insurance and 401k and all that stuff, we would only be saving about after um

bills and utilities and mortgage, we would only be saving about 2 to 3,000 a month. That would be the extra play after all the bills is what we would have to left to play with rather than right now we have about 11 10 to 11,000

in play every month.

>> So you're saying that uh that feels like a huge swing bigger than I thought. So she stays home. Obviously your income goes down from 17 to 13 and then you figure how much for insurance?

Um well the from what I was getting quotes from like the home family so it' be me my wife and two kids um health

insurance full plan was like it was like 18 or 1,900 a month >> is that marketplace insurance >> so we'll call that 200 >> for my work >> through your work. Okay. Yeah that's real high for an employer sponsored healthcare plan. >> It it feels high. Um but for for now

we'll take your word for it. So >> I would look at the high deductible plans too which will have lower premiums. Have you looked at those options? >> No, I just kind of got some rough numbers from the um uh from the representative. >> Okay. I would make sure to look at those highdeductible HDHP plans cuz the premiums will be way lower.

>> Okay. >> Hopefully. >> So, you're go you're down 6,000 for the month. So, I see what you're saying there.

Um it sounds like the point is just let's try to kick out as much of this debt while we have this high monthly income. And I think that's a great play. You can obviously afford for her to stay home. You can afford those things.

But it really just frames what uh George and I said beautifully, which is, yeah, while you have this money for the next 12 months, let's kick it into >> knock out consumer debt, get the emergency fund, and get that PMI knocked off. Now we have a whole lot of extra margin. >> Yeah, love it.

Next up, we have Daniel who's in Salt Lake City, Utah. Daniel, how can George and I help today?

>> All right. Yes. My [clears throat] uh my question is uh that my business has debt

still and but my wife and I personally do not carry any and so it's kind of a

weird spot where we're on baby step four

but the business is still I guess technically on baby step two. >> Who runs the business? >> Trying to figure out. >> Yeah. Are you soloreneurs? Boom. Looks like you're in debt, Daniel.

>> Right. Exactly. I know. Yeah. Exactly.

We're in debt. So that's what I thought you were going to say. We're We're on baby step number two till the business is paid off then, right? >> Uh-huh. >> How much is left on that? >> Yeah. 80,000.

>> Okay. How quickly could you knock that out if you guys got >> be done this year? >> Oh, okay. Before Before 2026 is over, this debt is gone. And then you need to build up an emergency fund.

>> Yeah. I mean, a business emergency fund.

My wife and I have, you know, about $70,000 ourselves.

>> Okay. I would use your personal money to pay off your debts. >> Is it just Is it just Are you the only two owners? Is it just you and your wife or do you have lots of employees? >> I have a 50% partner. So, I have a I

have a partner. Um I would love to do

that, but he he doesn't have the same amount of money stored up and so we wouldn't be able to evenly split paying off the debt personally. >> Could you knock out your part and have an assigned agreement saying, "Hey, your part of this debt is done."

>> Yeah, I guess in in theory.

>> It's 80,000 left in business debts on a

credit card and a line of credit >> and it'll be done at the end of the summer if you use the profits from the business.

>> Uh yes, that's correct. >> I would aim for that. I would get on the same page with them and go, "Hey, listen. I don't want this dead hanging around any longer. It's adding risk to our business. If we get real intense, we can knock this thing out." You guys have any reserves in the business as well?

Yeah, I mean, well, technic we've got customer deposits, you know, those are technically not our money yet either until the jobs are produced. We're residential painting company, so you know, the deposits, you know. >> Yeah, you do need to have some reserves.

I think because if you had told me that you were 100% owner of this business, I'd say, yeah, pay it off, reach over, do do whatever you need to do, but because you're not full owner and there's another guy that's associated with this, [music] yeah, as long as you guys can have this using those profits by the end of the summer, I love that.

and and [music] stack up some reserves.

6 to 12 months is what I would do immediately.

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio here with George Camel, myself, Jade Warshaw.

Uh we got Ryan who's in Chattanooga, Tennessee, just down the road. Ryan, you're up next, buddy. How can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking the call. Uh my question for you as a 26-year-old

um man married to my wife that's 24. I'm

curious. We we put a large portion of our monthly income away into savings and retirement. U we have little to no debt.

And I'm just curious, how much money is

saving too much for retirement versus being able to enjoy your 20s and 30s?

>> That's a very good question. Can you clarify for us a little bit two things?

What it means when you say little to no debt and just how much are you putting towards retirement and savings?

>> Yeah. So, our debt, my wife has about $4,000 worth of student loans. Um, we

across the board do not have any credit card debt. I do not have any student loans and we just have our mortgage. Um, both cars are paid off and we put roughly three grand a month into saving

or into investing for our retirement.

>> Why haven't you paid off the student loan?

We had it set up on an automation that was kind of her uh I guess spectrum and

um that's what we're planning on tackling within the next month or so.

>> Well, how much do you have saved? Have you been putting around three putting away 3,000? How much do you have in non-retirement savings right now?

>> In non-retirement savings. So as a for our I guess emergency fund. So the the 200,000 a month correlates with I guess the 401k and our Roth IAS.

>> How much do you have retired savings?

>> So we have roughly about 25 grand in our

uh taxable I guess liquid brokerage outside of our initial retirement.

>> Do you have any do you have any high yield savings money? Like just any money in savings?

Uh well that that is I guess drawing from the high yields right now. It's uninvested cash in my brokerage account.

>> Oh, got it. Okay. So it's just sitting there >> like a money market situation.

>> Okay. Cool. Cool. >> Correct. Correct. Sorry. >> All right. So you're wondering are you saving too much by putting three grand away a month into investments.

>> Correct. when I did my calculation 11% over the next, you know, 32 years or so till I've hit 60 for retirement, it's like $15 million, which is great number

to have with contributing that much each month. But >> so the 3K is 11% of your money.

>> Uh what what do you mean by that?

>> You're saying 11% as the rate of return when you calculate. >> Correct. Okay. What's your household income? Gross household income. Yeah, we make roughly um 130,000 here.

>> Okay, so our baby steps go as follows.

Baby step one, $1,000. You have that.

Baby step two, pay off all consumer debt, which means the student loans are paid off today, which brings your brokerage down to 21,000. Tracking

>> correct. >> Now, we need 3 to six months of expenses. What does six months of expenses look like for you guys? Is it more than 21 grand?

>> I would say between 20 and 25.

>> Great. So, we'll call that good.

Now we're at baby step four. 15% of household income which for you guys 15% is going to be$195 >> 1,600 a month 1625.

>> So that's the amount you should be putting away and any extra money then gets diverted to the mortgage and to enjoying your life. So you asked how much should we can we use some of this to enjoy our 20s and 30s. Yes, >> you should be using it. And I think investing three grand and putting every dime away into retirement is a bad idea because you have a flat tire. >> And honestly, I think this is just a mental shift more than a more than anything because after you do the 1,600

uh every single month, if you did another 1,500 extra on the mortgage, it's the same 3,000. You're just splitting it up and doing it in the right ways. So, you're still do you see what I'm saying? So, in many ways, you're still investing because a mortgage in many ways isn't it's it's an investment. It's it's it's definitely a force savings account at best. And so

you are investing, you're just doing it in different ways. So it's just a mentality shift there.

>> Sure. Okay. >> The dollar the dollars themselves don't really change.

>> Yeah. I guess there's I guess it's harder from mentally from a I guess

liquid versus illquid stand.

>> Well, let's talk let's talk let's talk through that. Let's talk through that because it it is worth talking through that. Um, we have found that it sounds

like your goal is to build wealth, right?

>> Correct. >> Yes. We've done the largest study of millionaires and one of the things that we found is there's two there's two key portions of this. Number one is these people, they invest in their 401k.

That's where they build the majority of their worth. It's not they've got all this real estate. They don't have these crazy No, they invest in their employee sponsored accounts. That's what they do.

And then the other thing that they do is they pay off their home mortgage. And they do it relatively quickly. And so if you can do those two things, combined effort, that is the ticket. That's what we have found works time and time and time again for millions of people.

And you're you're right there. Like I said, the amount that you're putting towards savings doesn't change. You're just not investing at all. So we're creating diversification in many ways.

>> You have a forced savings plan by putting it into that mortgage, paying it off, having all that equity. And that's exactly what my wife and I did, Ryan. We were very much I mean, you guys are earlier than we even got started. We had a paid off home in our early 30s, became Baby Steps Millionaires in our early 30s.

But I would caution you to slow down a bit. Move from intensity to intentionality once you're out of baby step three and and you begin to invest.

Because I don't want you to look back and go, "Oh my gosh, we have kids now.

We're not going we didn't get to do all those trips we wanted to do. Life got crazy and chaotic and complicated." So, I would allocate in your budget money for vacations and trips and some little luxuries. You guys have earned it. you've worked your tails off at 26 and 24 to be soon to be debtree as soon as you're off this call.

>> Yeah, I I appreciate it. It is It is nice to know that percentage threshold of, you know, how can I still be secured for the future, but also enjoy today.

So, I appreciate it. >> If you just do 15% until the mortgage is paid off, you're going to have so much in retirement. And by the way, once the mortgage is paid off, you can ratchet that up to 20, 30, 40, 50%. But make

sure that you're also giving and spending. >> You got to have all three in check.

Investing, saving, giving, spending. So all of those in check. 15% investing, 10% giving, especially if you're a person of faith. And then you can enjoy it after all the bills are paid. And that's where the every dollar budget comes in. It forces me to to go, "Oh, yeah. I need to put money away for that vacation." >> Yes. >> So we don't go, "Wait, this savings account is just for life." No, no, no.

You earmarked it for vacation, so use it. One of the things that kind of makes me sad is we can really get into the the the baby step two mode, that just gazelle intensity mode, because it feels good. We're making accomplishments. We're paying off debt.

We're saving really quickly. And it's like if that mentality continues to follow you, you never really enjoy the fruit of the baby steps. The whole point is to really rush it so you can get out of those painful periods. Get out of baby step two, get out of baby step three.

But man, once you're once you're in four, five, and six, and the house is starting to come down and everything is really, you know, starting to take shape, you're investing your 15%, you've got to live a little, >> live like no one else. So later, >> you can live like no one else and give like no one else. And you know, I got a DM the other day. They went, "Hey, can I buy this fancy coffee machine?

I know you like coffee." And I was like, "Well, where are you guys at financially?" They go, "Well, we're millionaires. We have a great income.

>> Get the coffee machine." Yes. And >> it feels like you're doing a bad thing because you're spending $2,000 which feels insane. You're right. It is insane if you're broke.

>> Yeah. >> But if you have the money, it's a small part of your world and it increases your quality of life. Try it. And what else makes you feel better is when you know you're generous.

You know that you're also giving a a generous portion of your money.

It is a very delicate balance. Give, [music] save, spend. You got to do all three.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. [music] If your private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do next, Y refi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment plan that's based on what you can actually afford. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

Remember that's the letter yfy.com/ramsey

and it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Evan in Iowa. I'm a husband and father of two young children currently in baby step two. I do not have term life insurance and neither does my wife. While we were looking at our monthly budget, the subject came up of when is the right time to get life insurance. Is this a financial priority while we are paying off debt or should we hold off until we are debtree and have our emergency fund in place?

>> Great question, >> Controvers. >> And the beautiful answer is that you need term life insurance regardless of what baby step you are on. As soon as anybody relies on your income, young children, a wife, even when you're just young and healthy, it's a good time to lock it in. >> It's a great because it's cheaper. Number one, >> it's so cheap. And so, absolutely, both of you need to get term life. You need 10 to 12 times your annual incomes u on

a, you know, 20 25 year term. And you

will find that it is quite affordable.

And if you're a stay-at-home spouse, you definitely need term life insurance to the tune of at least half a million. I like threequarters of a million.

>> Well, we had a call about that earlier.

Um, one I think it was my maybe our first call today. >> And it really is that 10 to 12 times number is so important because ideally what you want for anybody who's dependent on your income if you should go cuz we're all going to get beamed up at some point, but if you should go earlier than expected, you want that person who's left behind to not have to worry about cuz many many stay-at-home moms, they've never worked in the workforce. >> Yeah. And that was her situation.

She had some teens at home. She was stay at home.

And she had $500,000, which is you're going, "Wow, that's life-changing money." >> Sure, but it's not I never need to work again. >> And so if he had had 10 to 12 times his income in term life, he would have had 1.4 to $1.6 million.

>> She could have then drawn the exact amount. >> She could have invested that amount. the market would have spit off enough income for her to cover all of her expenses without having to worry about when is this money going to run out and they were renting. >> Yes, that's right. >> So, think about that. 10 to 12 times her income invested, your family's covered.

And so, they're while they're grieving your loss, at least they're not struggling financially figuring out what's next. So, get term life in place.

Xander is the place we've been recommending for decades now. I just re I just got an extra term life policy.

>> Did you do 15? Well, now that I got young kids and, you know, dogs that are too expensive, I just felt better. It was like, I'll sleep better at night. I might sleep with one eye open now cuz I might be I'm worth more dead than alive.

>> Yeah. >> But, uh, I know my family's going to be taken care of and Whitney's not going to be, you know, yelling at me. Hopefully.

Hopefully looking [laughter] up. Hopefully looking up, yelling at me.

>> LOOKING DOWN, THERE'S A PROBLEM. >> But she hates when I talk about it. She is the person who's like, I don't even want to think about it. Me either. And you bring up a good point because I think a lot of people avoid these types of discussions, life insurance, wills, because it is a mortality issue and it's

like, oh, I don't want to think about the worst happening, but it really is a way to love your family. Well, >> I hope you never have to use it and it was just money well spent to transfer the risk to the insurance company.

That's the goal is that the policy runs out after 20 or 25 years. You've been following the baby steps. You got a paid for house at the end of that. You've been investing for a couple of decades.

So, your nest egg has caused you to be self-insured. >> Yeah, that's the that's the goal. That's what we want to get to. >> Exactly. So, go check it out. Xander.com is the place to go. Get this done. Do not wait. >> Don't wait. Eric is in Kansas City, Missouri. Hi, Eric. How can George and I help out today? >> How's it going? >> Good. >> I am recently retired at 57.

Um, first out of age by my job. I have a

401k, but I am unsure what to do with it

because we can no longer contribute to it, but I don't want to draw from it either. So, I'm trying to figure out how to maximize my gain with it.

>> Yeah. Well, you could do a direct transfer rollover and roll it into an IRA.

And I would suggest maybe getting with a smart vester pro to help you do that.

Uh, and you can find those at ramiesolutions.com.

But that's easy to do. My question is, what do you plan to do with your time?

It sounds like you weren't ready to retire yet.

>> Well, part of it medical, part of it was by age. So, I mean, I make enough money right now or through my retirement

and disability through the VA that I don't need to draw off of my >> When you say retirement, >> what is your current income coming from now?

Um, I have

um I get about 7,000 a month right now.

I get 3,000 from my job that I retired

from. I get money.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Another four grand from disability from the VA.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so you're saying I don't need to touch the 401k money, but I want it to grow. So absolutely, I would do what Jade said, do a direct rollover.

So you don't want to see that money. It should not pass through your bank account. They will just transfer it directly over to an IRA, which is a a non-employer sponsored retirement account. And that way, you have all of the options in the world, way more than you even had in that 401k.

Uh but the key is if it's traditional, you want to make sure it's rolled over to a traditional IRA. And if it's Roth, you want to make that portion transfer to a Roth IRA.

>> How much is in that 401k, Eric? Uh, it's

almost 400,000.

>> Only 400,000.

>> That's a lot of money, my guy.

[laughter] >> But in in Eric's case, I feel like it's not a mess. >> Well, you know, you're not using it, which is good. And I love George's point. It sounds like it's traditional money.

So, it is going into a traditional IRA, but depending on what baby step you're in, I would be interested in over time moving that to Roth funds if possible. And that's something else that the Smart Investor Pro could help you with because if you're not touching this money and it truly is for posterity, then you want that to be tax-free growth. You want them to not have to pay taxes on that money uh when it's transferred to them and when they have the ability to access that.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, based on what the stock market has actually done over, you know, the last several several decades since 1950, we've seen a 10 to 12% average annual return. And so there's something called the rule of 72. And it's simple. You divide 72 by the annual rate of return.

It tells you how quickly your money will double. So at a 10% rate of return, your money would double every 7.2 years. So if you're doing the math at your age, at 64, if you just leave that alone, invested, that 400k turns into 800 at 64, 1.6 million by 71, 3.2 million by

the age of 77.

>> That's what I want to hear. >> Yeah, there you go. And that's if you never add to it. Like you mentioned, you you are fine on your own with your disability income and your pension income. So if you continue to live on less than you make and let that grow, that is generational wealth.

>> And that's where the transfer of Roth really really matters for you. Plus, you don't want to have retired minimum distributions if you don't need it.

>> Right. >> So that smart investor pro can help you also. >> What was that?

>> I said, yeah, because currently, you know, I would like to also contribute more into you know, my investment instead of letting it just ride because I've got money in savings that's not making any money. You know what I mean? >> Yeah, you can invest that too.

>> So, >> so that smart investor pro walk you through it. And I would also ask them about Roth conversions because like Jade's saying, if you can convert those strategically so you could do a portion each year, moving from traditional to Roth, you pay some taxes.

Doing it all at once is going to bump you way up in the tax brackets and cause you to have a big tax bill. And so that Smart Investor Pro can walk you through it strategically so that that money is then growing taxree the rest of your life and passed on to your heirs taxfree which is going to be pretty cool for somebody in your life one day.

>> Thank you. >> Does that make does that make a lot of sense for you Eric?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good. Good. Good. Is it just and is it just you, Eric, or do you have a wife, kids? Is there anybody else? It's just you. So, what do you plan on doing with that 3.2 million? I mean, what's what what do you think you'll Who's the beneficiary of that?

>> I try to take care of my my sisters and my mom. >> Okay. I love that. >> Good man.

>> Yeah, you are. That's a it's a really good point, George. you know, um he's in such a great position and there's many people who even if even if you are drawing off your retirement, there's still going to be a large portion [music] there and you do want to make sure that you're setting it up as a legacy piece so that whoever is inheriting that is not inheriting a major tax burden.

And so if you want a Smart Investor Pro to help you think strategically about whatever it is, wealth, estate planning, tax planning, you can go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvetor. [music]

>> [music]

>> Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

Ramsay trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramiesolutions.com/agent.

[music]

Alrighty, guys. It's May and the Ramsy

Cash giveaway is officially here. You can enter every single day from May 1st to May 31st. There's going to be one grand prize winner who's going to get 10 G's. $10,000.

>> 10 bands.

>> Yes. Also bands. Plus, there will be one

$500 weekly winner, which is pretty legit. And the good news is you can enter daily to increase your chances of winning. So, multiple times, once a day.

Plus, be sure to check out our sale going on right now. Kick off your summer with books and assessments for just $12.

That's pretty darn good. Go to ramseysolutions.com/giveaway now to enter. No purchase is necessary in order to win. All right, Amy in the

city I was born, Spokane, Washington.

What's going on, Amy? How can George and I help?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm calling because my husband said that

if I could get the Ramsay Show to approve of our house build, we could move forward with it. So, no pressure or anything. >> My entire future is just riding on this.

No, but [laughter] we're in a pretty good dream killer.

>> I've been known to be a dream killer, to be fair. >> Is he Is he anywhere listening? Is he with a glass on the door somewhere listening? >> You know what? He He's a He rides bikes

and he is currently listening to the show in his earpods on a bike ride. So, >> Okay. Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. Shout out shout out wherever you are on your bike. We're We're going to do our best to be fair.

>> I want to get you there. I want I want this to be a Yes. So, walk us through the predicament. >> Me, too. And we're both I just want to start by we're both very much on the same page. We're just like we want to be strategic and make sure this is the right choice for our family. And so I'll give you just a little bit of a um idea

of who who we are. And so we're 36 years

old. We've been married for 12 years.

>> Um we're actually Spokane is the closest town to us, but we're in a very desired ski town um nearby. And we own a house.

It's p we we have no debt. We've paid off our house. Um, we took Financial Peace University right when we got married and really it's it's been

fantastic for our life. Um,

>> that's incredible at 36 years old.

>> It feels really good. It really does.

And we we just built a um apartment

above a garage on the same property that we live in in this house right now. Um,

and so we're going to like our desire is to build a house

because we have a pretty big piece of property on this same property. So, it's paid for. Um, and we would then have our

house and the rental as income or and

the apartment rental as income.

>> Got it. And so, um, we're just trying to

figure out like

my husband's pretty hesitant to go back into any kind of debt, which I understand. It's been so great. I think we paid off our house about four years ago. And um so we're just going do we do

we wait until we have the cash on hand

>> or being that I'm pregnant with our third and I don't want our baby sleeping in a closet. Do we do we build the house

that will function for our family better than the one that we currently live in and we don't want to sell our house because it will make really good income.

>> Okay. Well, how much is it going to cost to build this house?

Um, it's probably about a million.

>> Okay. And what does that get you? What does a million get you? Is this like a fourbedroom house? Like what does it get? >> Yep. Four bedroomedroom. Um, we, like I said, Ptown it, it costs quite a bit to build here. >> Um, and I think a million might be being a, you know, between one and 1.2 for the

plan that we have. But yeah, it's a four four bedroomedroom >> um three bath.

>> Okay. Four three. And what do you have saved so far towards this? Not including

emergency fund, not retirement. You know the deal. >> Totally.

>> So, well, I'll just give you kind of our like cash on hand is 500. Um, and that's

um that's kind of just in the bank right now because we were needing to pull out a lot to build this current apartment that is that that I was talking about.

Okay. >> And then in our Roth 401k we have

>> um about 450

and then our joint account that that so

the Roth you know that's our retirement we can't join off the table. Uhhuh.

>> Yeah. So, um, 275 right now and

our current property is valued, we don't really know because we just built this, but I would say probably 1.5.

>> How much do you guys make? What do you take home every month?

>> Um, well, >> cuz that's really what this that's really what this is all riding on. Cuz I can tell you right now, if you tell me, hey, I'm looking to do a house for 1.2 2 million. And I just plug this in the Ramy Solutions uh mortgage calculator.

If you put the $500,000 cash down on a

15-year fixed at uh I'll put in 5.6

>> for now. I don't have it on my screen what the current rates are, but that's going to put the payment around 7,000 bucks a month. So, as long as this is no

more than 25%, you're on the right track in my unless you say something crazy in the next few minutes. >> Yeah. What is your average take-home pay?

>> We own a business and we

um I would say about

it changes year to year, but I'd say about 250.

>> Okay. >> Is there annual income?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Got it. >> Cuz yeah, I need you to be taken home.

That puts you at my [clears throat] guess is you're probably taking home around 12 to 14 a month.

>> Well, we pay ourselves once a year

because it's a seasonal business.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, what do you pay yourselves? >> Um, >> 250k.

Um,

>> we're just trying to find out your after tax monthly income to figure out if this mortgage is going to make sense because I'm not sure if you, you know, I understand wanting to pay cash.

>> It's not a sin if you go back to baby step six for a season with the intentionality of we're going to pay this off >> pretty aggressively to get back to baby step seven. >> Like our plan would be five years. Well, if you if you say, "Hey, we we we pay ourselves $250,000 cash in our pocket and we split it over 12 months, so it's around 21,000 a month." >> Um, >> it's it's getting you close. It's getting you close, but that mortgage is still creeping up, right?

>> But then what would you guys say if if our house, you know, our house would rent for about 44,500 a month and the

apartment for about 2500?

>> 4,500 and200. You can rent out both separately.

>> Both separately. Yes. >> Right. And that I think that gets you there because that's now considered income.

>> Now, there's still some, you know, variables with that. So, you don't want to count it 100% cuz you've got vacancies, maintenance, repairs, you

know, tenant issues, all of that is going to play a part.

>> But I feel like you guys are thinking about this pretty clearly. The only concern is you'd have the majority of your net worth would be in real estate.

>> Mhm. So that's the only thing to think about if you have, you know, 450K in retirement. Uh, but I think longterm, you guys are 36. So over time, your retirement is going to surpass your your home. And the other thing to think about is, is this the same property? If you were to sell one day, could you sell them separately? Is the is the land big enough? >> Yeah. >> Okay, great. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. So, >> you definitely could. And >> go ahead. Go ahead.

>> Oh, no. I was just saying like that's definitely been a huge and there's more land that we could I mean if we wanted to divide off some we could just sell it

as property too.

>> You could like parcel it out and and just sell pieces of it. Okay.

>> So if you tell me if I if I hear these numbers right which I I think I did uh

one rental is 4500 the other one is 2500.

>> Yeah. So, that's another $84,000 a year.

>> And that gets you there. If you keep that and it's consistent, that gets you to just about $2,800 or $28,000 a month,

which is right where you'd want to be for this mortgage. >> But what George said is very critical.

Usually, we would not tell somebody.

It's the same as somebody said, "I can buy a house, but as long as I have somebody living in the rooms, right, to make the mortgage for you guys, that's the critical part on this. that $84,000 is really dependent on. Is this person going to be dependable month after month? >> And will this business income be dependable? You got to think about that, too. But [music] you got a green light from us if you check all those boxes.

Congratulations.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

But you know what else? There's more of spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the

Every Dollar Budget app because it helps you plan your money, track your spending, and find more margin in your budget so that you can put extra cash towards the goals that matter most.

Enjoy your summer without the money stress. Download the Every Dollar app in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our

Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day is Proverbs 22:26-27.

It says, "Do not be one who shakes hands and pledge or puts up security for debts. If you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from under you?" Shots fired.

>> Shots fired for sure. Doug Larson said, "People are living longer than ever before." A phenomenon undoubtedly made necessary by the 30-year mortgage.

>> That's hilarious. >> Dang. 30 years though, that's a short lifespan. Doug, [laughter] >> come on, Doug. >> Come on, Doug. >> I mean, he lived a good long life there based on the timeline. >> That's for sure. We got Damon in Arkansas. Damon, how can we help today?

>> Uh, yes. Hello. Thank Thank you for taking my call. Um, I recently uh got

done paying off my student loans. I I didn't graduate. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, but uh I'm I'm at a point now where I'm the sole

provider for me, my wife, and our our

four kids. Uh we have two children who

have been diagnosed with autism that'll uh she has to stay at home with with

them. Um, so again, I'm the I'm the sole provider, but I have I have a car note

for 15,000. Um,

then I have my mortgage for I think it's

I think I have 150,000 left left on there. Should I go back to school?

Should I >> should I pay more debt to I work in a

factory? >> What do you make?

>> $17 an hour.

>> Okay. Yes. That was about 35 grand a year. Is that full-time, 40 hours a week? >> Yes. >> And what did you go to school for originally that you didn't finish?

>> I was a physics major.

>> Okay. So, what would you go back to school for today if you were to choose a different career path?

>> Still don't know. Uh I see a lot of the

people in in this factory have degrees

that I would have not even have considered uh would have gotten them their positions. But uh it almost feels like I just need a degree in anything.

>> Well, I don't want you to get a degree for the sake of getting a degree and then you're back where you are going, "Okay, now what? Nobody handed me a job all of a sudden." So, I want you to have some aim and purpose with this. And we can help with that. we'll send you our friend uh Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has the Get Clear Career Assessment inside and I think it'll help point you in the right direction. Um but in the meantime, I mean, 17 bucks an hour, you can make doing just about anything.

You could triple your income within a couple years. >> Yeah. because that that does bring up the bigger question which is whether you went in trades, whether you needed certificates, whether you needed a degree, what what would be the plan in your mind to pay for this? Because George and I definitely don't want you to go further into debt uh for education. We value education. We just don't want you to go into debt for it.

So, what do you think a plan could look like?

I would like to not have any debt at all

uh at some point with having my car paid off and getting my mortgage paid off. Um

>> ultimately I want to have no debt.

>> I think I >> How are you getting by right now? I'm curious. Damon, you're making 35k a year. You got the car payment. You got the mortgage. You got four kids, a stay-at-home spouse. How have you been surviving? It is a struggle every month, man. Every

month it I mean we we have a nothing on

paper budget but essentially we just

have what our bills that we have to pay

and then whatever's left over you know is our food, our gas, we we make I make

not enough to have anything left over at the end of the month. >> Well, you're able to cover all the bills just nothing more. You're not going into debt to cover any bills.

>> Yes. >> Wow, that's impressive. I just want to applaud you for making all this work, even without a budget, which I encourage you to make one and I'm going to hook you hook you up with every dollar, which will give you that plan as well as the Get Clear Career Assessment. >> Now, how were you able to pay off the student loans on this?

>> Uh I I had I was I had a different job.

I was getting different hours. And uh we we moved to uh this town where I'm at

now. And uh I I lost that job and now

this is I just we we had some residual

income left over that >> we decided like okay, you know, I may be able to go back to college and get a better income. Let's just toss it towards these what's left of my student loans. I've been paying on them for a decade. >> What were you making before and what type of work were you doing?

>> Uh I was in a tipped position so it's

tough to say. Uh, I made 55,000

in 2025.

Yes. 2024, excuse me. Uh, and I was a I

was a cage cashier. I paid people jackpots. Usually people were pretty happy to see me. >> Oh, okay. Well, the good news is you've seen a higher earning potential. Like, you've seen, okay, I know I can go out in the world and make $55,000.

I would just apply that. Honestly, if I were you, I might just get curious and start looking online and just start applying for things. You can do that for free, right? And and start uh Ken Coleman would say to use your proximity and see who you know, ask around, ask your friends.

I'd make a list. My goal tonight would be I'd make a list of 10 to 15 people that I can reach out to and say, you know, what are you doing? Have you heard anything? Is there anybody hiring and what you're doing?

Are people working places where they need employees? And that would be a great way just to get started just to see what what can I pull from? And who knows, you could end up landing something where you're making a little bit more and that could lead to the next step while you're figuring out the work that you're actually wired to do here.

Very, very good question. >> Hang on the line. will send you that assessment and every dollar. Damon.

>> All right, let's go to Caleb who's in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Hey, Caleb.

How can George and I help real quick?

>> Hi. How you guys doing?

>> We're doing good. We're right up against the clock. How can we help you?

>> All right. So, I am currently on baby step two, but I'm going to be out of baby step two in about two and a half months. Uh, when I get out of it, I did

some budgeting. I realized I'm going to have about $2,700 every single month

just for free. >> Nice. >> And my expenses are going to be like my six-month emergency fund is literally going to be less than baby step one. And so I do need to buy a car and I'm looking to buy a car and obviously my emergency fund is going to change when I have to buy insurance. So my question is one, should I buy a brand new car or a

piece of crap? And then two, how much should my emergency fund be since my expenses are so low?

>> Yeah, very good question. First one is, I love that you're going to free up that much margin. What is so urgent that you need a new car right away? Because if I could hold off on the new car and save the emergency fund first, I would do the emergency fund first. And you want to build your emergency fund based on your

current or very quickly foreseeable monthly expenses. It's a barebones budget. So, this is if I took out all the bells and whistles of my budget that aren't necessity and I said, "Okay, it's rent, it's transportation, it's insuranceances, it's daycare, all those things that if you hit an emergency situation, maybe you lost your job, maybe there is a diagnosis." Obviously, there'd be certain nicities you'd probably cut away and you'd keep things down to bare bones. So, 3 to 6 months is what I' I'd aim from.

If you know you need a car, I'd save up the 3 months, do the car, and then come back and do the 6 months. But if the car is really just something that's a nice to have, George, I would go ham on the 6 months since it's just you. And then I would start to save up for the car that you want. And I would I would not go, "Hey, it's either going to be the worst car I've ever seen or the nicest car I've ever seen." Get something reasonable.

>> My income right now is about 4,500 a year. 45 45,000 or yeah 45,000 I was like goodness gracious man what are they paying you over there okay so 45 grand a year you're single >> yes >> is this the only thing with wheels and motors in your life is this one car

>> yeah I don't have a car currently >> okay cool so you want no more than 20k and for a guy your age I think 20k is even the upper upper limit I might shoot for something more like in the 15 range that'll just get you from A to B it's decent It's used. Do not go buy a new car. Don't go to the dealership cuz they're going to try to get you into a giant payment and go, "Man, you can get the brand new one for just a little bit more. What kind of payment are you looking for?" You're paying cash.

You're buying used. And I would I like the idea of a $10,000 emergency fund.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. [music] Absolutely.

Well, George, it's been fun, but it's also over. >> A I'm sorry. Hey, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

Heat.

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## 32. Debt Steals Your Freedom - Fight For Financial Peace | December 10, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, is my co-host today. Open phones at 88255225.

Nicole is in San Francisco. Hi, Nicole.

How are you?

>> Hey, good morning. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas to you. What's up?

>> Hey, so I just have a question, a rental question. My my fiance and I have been together for almost three years, and we're getting married at the end of December. We're very excited. And after the the wedding, we're planning on moving in together, obviously. Um the home that he's living in is a home that he actually lived in with his ex. Uh so

his name his ex's name, I just found out recently, is still on the lease. Again, it is a rental. He's tried multiple times to get her to take her name off.

He even um had a court order via some of their custody um hearings that the judge said she had to take her name off. She still refuses to do so. um his property management company isn't being responsive. I'm a realer and I spoke with our property management division and they said that basically we have three options.

One, the property management company can just out of the goodness of their heart take her name off and redo the lease with just his and my name. Uh two, get her to sign the paperwork, which he's been trying to do unsuccessfully, or three, terminate the lease, likely forfeit the deposit because her name would be on the check and then move out and move back in.

on it. U, mind you, they also have a child together. There's a lot of really gross custody situation going on. So, it's not just an ex that we never hear from or speak to. It's, you know, an ongoing problem in our life. And I just I don't know if it's worth am I being dramatic in like the potential issues financially and like losing deposit >> when is the lease up?

>> Well, it was up and he's he's continued

to live in the home. So they broke up.

>> No, I mean when is the current when does the current lease expire?

>> It it's a month to month now.

>> Oh, okay. So you can give 30 days notice

and move out.

We could. >> Okay. >> And then we would have to find a new place. >> Then you just find a new place.

>> That's easy. Okay. Now, the however, let's let's back up a second. She does not have a say in this. Okay. Her name

being on the lease is making her

obligated for the payment on the lease.

It doesn't give her any rights to possession.

Okay. It just it's just like if if if uh

someone co-signs a lease >> for you to move in, like your dad signed for you to move in or something. It doesn't give him rights to live there.

It just says that he's also liable. And

so the property management company can simply reddraft the lease and take her name off of it. They don't have to have her permission to do that. They can just take her off, >> okay? >> And put you on. And so, you know, what I

would do is just call the property management company. And I don't know why your fiance's not handled this. This is really bizarre to me. This is on him.

Okay. And you're right. This is gross.

And it should have been dealt with a long time before you three weeks before you get married. >> Geez. >> Mhm. >> Call me up a week for we're going down the aisle next week and I'm not going to you Well, yeah. So, but anyway, so I'm if it's me, I'm calling the property management company. I'm your fiance and I'm saying, "Look, I want my wife to be on our lease, not my ex."

And so, we are going to give you two options. One is you reddraft the lease with me and the new wife on it without the X on it, or we're going to give you 30 days notice of move. Which one do you want us to do?

>> Okay. >> And I'll get your responsive. I'll just move. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Right. Okay. But you don't need her permission or a court order regarding

her. The landlord simply just needs to agree to release her from liability.

>> Okay. >> She gets no rights.

>> There's no rights here at all.

>> And she hasn't lived there in a long time. And so I don't know why why it would even be an issue, >> right? I don't know. That's just the >> Well, apparently this chick has got issues and she's throwing anything she can around to try to do power plays,

>> any any kind of a flex that's possible and you're just worried about that, right?

>> Right. And yeah, and I >> Right. And again, it just feels gross moving in with >> you. Yeah. You don't want to show up in a house that I live in. It's not going to be good for your health.

>> Don't do that. What's the upside of continuing for him to live there and you to move in there? Why not just get a different place? >> Yeah. >> Well, as you know, San Francisco is a very expensive market. Um, he has rent

of very very very little. Um, the

property magic of the landlord um was very gracious. He has not they've not raised the rent in like the four or five years he's lived here. Um, it's a very it's thousands of dollars less than anywhere else. Yeah. >> That we found.

>> I don't want to live there.

>> I just wonder even though her name there and and I don't care if it's thousands of dollars less or not. I don't want to live there unless her name is off this lease and yours is on it, >> right? Yeah. I I feel the same way.

>> I want to move. So, either fix it or I'm moving. And that's my direction to your fiance. Grow a backbone. You should have already done this eight months ago for your girlfriend, your soon tobe wife, and you've sat on your thumbs now. Fix this, buddy. That's my direction to him.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> He shouldn't You shouldn't have to be calling me about this. He should have already taken care of this. It's bull crap. Okay. But he's also gets pushed around by her pretty regularly. And that's what's really bothering you at the core of this. >> And I'm not sure that's going to stop even with this lease situation fixed.

>> Nope. Not till we run down to a Walmart on aisle 3 and pick up a a backbone.

That's what that's going to happen. So, all right. Open phones at8255225.

So, a lease is an obligation. It is not

a blessing. Being released from the

obligation would be a blessing.

>> Is that the opposite of a lease? Is it release? >> There we go. Released from the lease.

Yes. But I mean, so I mean, think about it. It's like a loan. Okay. If you go through a a divorce and you have a mortgage loan, your spouse is on is liable on the mortgage loan, the mortgage company doesn't won't let her go. Won't let him go, right? Unless you

refinance and take them off. They they won't they won't just release you from that because >> prove that you're responsible enough to handle. >> But you don't have any rights because you're on the mortgage. You have lost rights because you're on the mortgage.

Same thing with a lease. >> Yeah. So there's not a there's no uh benefit to >> it's just risk and liability part >> other than I guess control to stay intermingled in his life. >> Yeah. Just to be constantly flexing.

>> Only reason I can think of why you'd want to stay on that thing. >> That's all the more reason to put up >> cuz he could stop paying and it's on her. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> There's one move. >> Yeah. Well, it's just I'm moving. I'm moving. >> Yeah. Not worth the drama. That's for sure. >> Nothing Nothing is worth the drama.

>> Oh goodness. Don't sell your soul for a

couple thousand bucks savings on something. Don't Don't sign Don't sign up for lack of freedom and drama and

call that a good deal. That's not a good deal.

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Rachel's in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hi, Rachel. How are you?

>> Rachel.

>> Earth to Rachel.

>> Rachel. Three, two,

>> we got We had her right there. There she was. >> Okay, I'll try I'll try her again. She came up. We'll try it again. Rachel, are you there now?

Yes, I'm here. >> Okay. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm actually calling because how do I even start the baby steps when I am absolutely drowning and even trying to get caught up on my bills?

>> Well, getting caught up would be the first step before you start the baby steps. You're right. You're you're on to something there. So, why are you drowning?

Um, I actually had some health issues

over the past year.

>> Um, that I'm I've missed so much work.

I've had to find another job of cuz I

believe my last job was killing me and

that required a pay cut and I'm working from home now and

it's just getting caught back up.

>> Okay. Well, you got the exact wrong solution for being behind on your bills, taking a pay cut. We want to go the other way. So, what in the world? What's wrong with your health?

>> Um, well, I my job was very unsteady

where I was at. And they working from

home to being pulled back into the office and I just started having a bunch of anxiety attacks. And >> working in the office caused anxiety.

It was I the people I was around and

then they started doing layoffs and it was just a very stressful situation.

>> Okay. What were you doing?

>> Um I do medical billing. My job is not hard. >> Okay. So that's what you were doing at the other place.

>> Correct. And that's >> And what were you being what were you being paid?

Um, I was being paid around um 45. It

wasn't a huge pay cut. I'm at about 40,000 now. >> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

>> Um, I have about

120,000 without mortgage.

>> Okay. And what's that on?

>> Um, 6,000 is about my medical debt.

um 14,687

for um a boat. I have student loans and

about that's about 10,000.

We have a truck that's 37 thou well it's

about 38,000 and then I have a Jeep that's about 41,000.

>> Mhm. >> Um I have credit card.

>> You just said we What's your husband make? Um, he makes about 70,000.

>> Okay. So, you have $110,000 income currently. >> All right. And you got a Jeep, a truck, a boat.

>> Yes, sir. >> And then is what else was it? Student loan and a medical debt. And what else?

>> And two credit cards. And that's about 2,000. >> Okay. >> And we do have um IRS debt. Well, my

husband does, so I say we. And I think that's probably about 8,000.

>> Mhm. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay.

But so your $5,000 pay cut didn't really cause you any trouble. It's all your overspending that's caused you trouble.

>> And I can agree to that.

>> Yeah. So, uh, you're not going to like

me.

Sell the truck. Sell the Jeep. Sell the boat.

>> Okay. Oh, I'm starting to get my life back now.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, you'd clear the majority of your debt if you did that. What stopped you guys thus far from getting rid of these things that are crushing you?

>> I will say the boat that is all we do is

>> I don't care. >> I think you should be instead of boating. >> You're calling me talking about you're so stressed out, you can't breathe and you're $120,000 in debt. You can't afford a boat. You're broke.

go to the park and throw a Frisbee.

>> Yeah.

>> You're not going to do any of this, are you? >> You're not really ready. You're not really in enough pain to fix this. You just You want an easy button. I don't have one, honey. The only button I got is the one that'll work. I love you enough tell you the truth. And the truth is, you got to sell this crap. You've been spending like you're in Congress.

And you're rationalizing and justifying and rationalizing and justifying. And only when you look up and go, I caused this and I can fix this. Are you going to be able to fix it? I can tell from the tone of your voice, you're not going to do any of it. So, when you're ready to be helped, we can help you. And we love you and we'll try to help you, but we're not going to tell you what you want to hear. We're going to tell you what really helps. And so, we're we're

really not known for telling telling people, making people feel good. That's not the point. We want you to feel good 10 years from now, not today. Today, I

want you to h have pain so that you can

get free of this trashy life you have.

Your life sucks. You make $110,000

in Columbia, South Carolina, and you

gave up a job because of anxiety at the

office. And really, the anxiety was at home, sitting in the driveway with a boat and a jeep and a truck.

That's where it was. So, yeah, you you just got a bunch of crap you can't afford. you're you're living like, you know, you're spending like you got money and you don't have any money. I'm sorry, honey, but we can help you when you're ready to do that, but you're gonna have to amputate some crap and that'll give you your life back. Until you're ready to do that, though, I don't have an easy button for you. I can't help you. Kevin is in New York. Hey, Kevin. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I was just looking for some help.

I'm uh married, 33, and I'm having some

trouble with the fear of kicking Murphy out, as you guys would say. So, I'm looking for a big old kick in the butt um to help me get rid of some irrational fears on that. >> I'm so confused. What are we talking about? um in your book kicking Murphy out is one of the chapters for um basically

lowering your savings to um like

emergency fund to a thousand and then putting that all towards debt. So like I think it's Murphy's law >> temporar to temporarily do that so that

you can get the debt cleaned as fast as possible.

>> We're not living we're not living there forever.

>> Yeah. having trouble with is I'm I'm afraid that something's going to happen in the meantime um to a car or medically

or something. Yeah. >> Um >> it it might it might How much debt have you got?

>> Right now between me and my wife um we

have about $25,000

debt between >> And what's your household income?

Household income together is8,600 a month. >> Okay. So, how fast do you clear up $25,000?

>> Um, I'm I'm looking at

August other than the car August and then after that I would say within a year about 12 months.

>> Yeah. 2,000 bucks a month and you'll be done. So, for 12 months you got to make it on $1,000. And if something during that 12-month period of time happens beyond $1,000, you'll have to stop your

get out of debt plan and and pile up some cash to fix whatever it is that's beyond $1,000. The probability of that's very close to zero, though.

>> That's I I think the fear comes from childhood or something. That's my fear is that something just something's going to happen. >> Yeah, that is a rational fear. I don't even know where it comes from either, but it it walking around with $1,000

only to your name for the rest of your life would be stupid because common sense tells you something's going to happen, right?

>> Yeah. >> So, your fear is I I I think your fear is justified, but it's not justified enough to stay in debt.

How much money have you got in savings?

>> Um, right now about 15,000.

>> Okay. So, wait a minute. We have 25 in debt. We're not in debt for a year. If you put 14 towards the 25, that's only 11 left. You should be done in like 3 months.

>> Yeah. If the 15 was uh without putting

it towards it. Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. So, could you take half your take-home pay and throw it at the debt if you cut down your expenses and worked harder? >> Right now, we put Yeah. Right now, we put 1,800 um a month towards um the

emergency fund. >> Okay. What what I would do is I would throw everything at the debt and that leaves you $11,000 worth of debt. You make $8,000 a month and I would be done with the debt in 3 months.

>> You don't need to keep stacking this emergency fund. You need to start killing this debt. Man, >> this is Dude, you're acting like you're acting like this is a 30-year problem.

It's a 90day problem. I mean, when the leaves turn green, you're going to be done.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. We just heard this from Claire and Winston fan quote. Uh, this is me and my husband's third month budgeting with every dollar and we're amazed at how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding an extra $3,500 in margin each month to put towards our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back.

>> Way to go, guys. That's amazing. Hey guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money.

>> You can change your family tree and you can live like no one else. Go download the Every Dollar Budget app for free. It will guide you handholding through the Ramsay steps, the Ramsey plan, the Ramsey process, the stuff you hear on the air. This app will walk you right through it and cause you to do it. You'll get out of debt, become wealthy and outrageously generous, and we'll show you how. Come on, baby. Let's do this. It's time. Courtney's with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Courtney. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm so excited. >> Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help? Well, I want to start by saying that my husband and I are completely debtree minus our current home and our

rental property.

>> Um, my question today is regarding our rental property. Okay, Dave. So, my parents are the tenants and it's not going well and it has not been going well for the past 11 years. I wanted to help them out. So, um, because they could no longer afford their home. So, I wanted to be a good daughter and help out my parents. The issue is that they're not communicating with us. The rent is late each month. Um, for example, Dave, um, I received November's rent last Friday, which was December 5th. No communication. Um, I have

diligently made sure each month I

communicate with them um, for the past year about the rent, but nothing's changed. Um, I've asked them to move in with us. The answer is no. I've asked them to think about moving into something cheaper. The answer is no.

I've asked them, "Do I need to set aside money to get a bigger home with the mother-in-law unit?" The answer again is no, Dave, I sent them through Financial Peace University. Nothing has changed.

Um, I only owe $60,000 on my rental

property in California. That's really, really good. Um, this is supposed to be part of my retirement money towards my kids college fund. We sacrifice so much,

Dave. this process and your principles have helped us so much. Things that I had no idea we would be able to accomplish, but we have. I'm just I need help, Dave. I don't know what to do.

>> Share your wisdom.

>> Well, um,

you're not shocked that your parents have not paid this on time, and I'm not shocked that they've not paid it on time. They've never paid anything in their lives on time. And you knew when you stuck them in there that they weren't instantaneously going to become financial geniuses.

You you you had to know that this was going to happen.

So you signed up for this trip, right?

>> Oh my goodness. Yes.

>> Yeah. I'm sorry. It's so hard when it's

family and especially your mom and dad and you're trying to do something nice for them. So you kind of got one of two options.

One is give up.

One none of the options are going to be try to talk them into becoming financially responsible.

That obviously doesn't work. So that's not that's not one of the options we're going to try. That's been that that ship has sailed. We've been try we tried it.

Okay. So either you give up and you pay the house off. It's only $60,000. Let's get over and get it paid off and just let them live there. And then when they pay and if they pay, be surprised.

>> Okay? and just surrender.

That that's giving up. Okay? If you want to do that, that's not a bad thing, but you're just saying whatever that house is worth, I'm just pissing that money away and in the name of taking care of my parents and that's I'm just going to live with that and I'm not going to fret about it because happiness comes, you

know, I always laugh when I'm playing golf. My golf motto is the secret to happiness is low expectations.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So if you quit expecting them to be something that they're not going to be, then you can just chill, right? So you're just going to let them live there and if they pay, we're going to act surprised. Okay? And that's not a bad plan. You you could get the 60,000 paid off in a few years or few months or whatever and not worry about it, couldn't you? The other option, if you want to be a little more,

>> shall we say, aggressive, okay? Then I

can help you with that one, too. you can call them and say, "Mom and dad, I talked to my financial adviser. I'm your financial adviser." And he said to sell

this house, and so we're going to put the house on the market and sell it. So, y'all are going to have to find a place to live.

>> Okay? >> And they just go figure out their life cuz they're like grown-ups and crap. And they ought figuring out their life long time ago without being babysat by their own daughter. So, hello. How old are these people?

Um, my dad is what, 65? My mom is 64.

>> Yeah. So, get a job and go pay your rent. Shut up. I mean, come on.

>> So, let's play the scenario. They have they go rent somewhere and they have a landlord now. Do you think they're going to pay on time? >> Well, that's up to them.

That's their problem. >> All of a sudden, >> that's their problem. Yeah. >> I think they they'd quickly figure it out, wouldn't they?

They go, >> we're not we're not giving an option of you have to pay on time or we're selling it. You just say, I talked to my financial adviser. He says we got to sell the house.

Uh, we're going to put the house on the market February 1st. So, y'all got to be gone by then. So, y'all look for a place cuz we got to get the house sold. Well, what about Listen, I you know, we it worked for a while. You were here for 11 years and now we can't do it anymore.

And the financial adviser says I got to sell it. So, I got to sell it cuz I'm telling you, you got to sell it. So, you can blame me. Just say my my financial adviser. I'm I'm the bad guy. Okay? And and you know, but that puts them back out and to deal with the reality of their misbehavior. And that's actually not a bad thing either. But uh but then

you can't be running and rescuing them every time they stub their toe. You got to just let them go. >> I just love you. >> Have to learn how to do that. >> Some people need to be loved from further distance than others.

You need a little more distance between you and them. >> If you stop the enabling, then it'll also stop the resentment that's been bubbling up in your life. >> Just say, "Gosh, you're over there and I sure hope it works out for you. I love you. Be cheering for you." And you know,

I I'm not going to worry about it after that. It's their problem. You've done all you can do and then 11 years too much. Right.

>> Correct. >> So, I mean, it didn't like you didn't try. You're a sweetheart. You tried everything. So, if you want to cut them loose, you could do that and and you would not be doing something immoral or unethical or unbiblical or anything like that because you you gave you gave 11 years worth of enabling a shot here and it didn't work. So, um yeah. So either

just give up and pay it off and let them live there and don't worry about it and just be shocked when they do pay. Don't bring it up again. Don't communicate about it. Don't even mention it ever again. Just if the check comes, the rent

check shows up, JUST BE, "WOW, I'm so shocked." I mean, just have that attitude about it and then you'll be fine. Or put the house on the market February 1st and tell him to go find a place to live and blame it on your financial adviser and I'll take that role. Actually, it's George. George is your favorite. >> You can blame me. I I can handle that. He >> His name is George. Your financial advisor's name. >> Last name. I love it. It reminds me of

the old quote. If they wanted to, they would. If they wanted to pay on time, they would. If they wanted to become debtree, they would.

And so, you just can't change people. >> Guy used that on me in my 20s when I was late for everything. He says, "You're late for everything." I said, "Well, I'm busy. I'm busy." He goes, "If you want to be on time, you would." >> And you know what?

Pissed me off. I'm >> But he was right. >> And I'm not late anymore. You were very punctual.

That's actually shocking. But there was a time >> it's arrogant to be late. You're making a statement to the people that they don't matter. >> That's the at the root of this is a lack of respect.

It's a lack of respect for their daughter and the kindness that she's offered them. >> Yep. >> To say, "Hey, we're not going to pay on time." >> Yep. >> Even that's what we agreed to.

We're not people of integrity. >> It's um smells like a parasite.

>> Yeah. It's just sad when your parents are qualified as that. >> It muddies the waters. Which is why I I personally would not sign up to my mom and dad. not have signed up and become their landlord. >> Nope. >> Cuz they remember when they change your diaper. Nope. >> So, it just makes it awkward when now you're demanding rent payment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's >> Sorry, mom and dad. We got to sell the house. Yeah. I mean, >> it's the easiest way. It's the nicest way to evict someone is just to get rid of the whole situation. >> Yeah. Just start from scratch. >> You don't have to go into all why? And you don't have to go into you don't pay the rent on time, so you don't have to go into we've begged you. We've tried.

You don't have to try to be corrective with it. There's no point in that cuz it's not going to work. It's just clean.

Just like gosh, you know, sorry, y'all got to look for places for selling the house. So, either that or just pay the thing off and quit worrying about it.

Either one. Either one's okay. Either one's okay. You're a good daughter.

Either way, you gave it a run, >> but it's living in your head rent free.

And currently, they're basically living in your house rent free. >> There's a lot of free rent here.

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Craig in New York.

I'm 70 years old, still working, and I'm now a high- netw worth individual thanks to your principles. I agree with 99% of what you say, but here's the 1% I don't agree with. I have a $320,000 mortgage

at $2.75% on a property that's worth $4

million. I paid extra for years, and at this point, over half of my monthly payment goes to principal, and the rest goes to interest. The house payment is a small percentage of my monthly income, and I'm making way more interest on the over 320K I have in savings than the house interest is costing me. Why would I consider paying off that mortgage?

It's like a common core math riddle here. Sleep.

You'll sleep better.

And you don't even know it.

It's a very small problem for you.

You're not going to go bankrupt because of this. You're not going to not become a millionaire. Apparently, you already have. So, congratulations. But you didn't become a millionaire because you borrowed $320,000. You became a millionaire because you saved money and got out of debt.

And I got to tell you, you you have no idea, Craig.

It's going to blow your mind. The peace

peace is going to run down your spine when you pay this off. You're going to feel it physically and you're going to sleep better.

It's that simple. And um debt equals

risk. And risk has a math factor to it

that you did not use in your little formula. So your formula is naive and incomplete.

So if you adjust for risk mathematically, the money that you're making on your high yield savings over the top of 2.75 isn't spit and won't buy

you a biscuit.

So you're really not some financial genius here. At the end of the day, you're actually fairly naive about it.

But it's okay if you want to keep your mortgage like it's a pet. That's fine.

But some people keep pet snakes. I don't.

>> I don't have any pet snakes. You got any pet snakes? >> Zero. >> Okay. I think they're uh they're of the devil. >> Got zero mortgages, too.

>> That's true. Yeah. This even the math isn't that impressive on this. When you go, well, I could make three and a half, but the mortgage is 2.75.

>> So, if you make 1% on this, you made 3,200 bucks. $250 a month. That's not worth me taking the call for this. It's a biscuit. I mean, really.

>> And you can now invest the mortgage payment and make up for lost time.

>> And it's not even what it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. All this it's it's hilarious that it's like I can borrow $4 and make us and make and make

money on my $4. Who cares?

>> As a portion of your net worth and your income, this is not worth. It's irrelevant. The property is worth 4 million. You know, it's so you keep it.

You keep your little mortgage if you want to pet it on the head and if you like pet snakes. I don't like pet snakes, even small ones. And so they're

all they're all poisonous as far as I'm concerned. I hate >> the oxymorate the large banks. I hate the car companies financing and putting people in debt. I'm sick and tired of the federal government ensuring 18year-olds can borrow $100,000 and they can't even buy beer.

And so, but but we're going to put them in debt because we're going to help help you out. We're from the Congress and we're going to team up with the big banks. And the big banks in Congress when they team up is never good for the regular people.

It's never good for us regular folk. So, I'm sick of these people praying on everybody and and then, you know, turn it in into sophisticated bull crap. It's

not sophisticated at all. So, Craig, I'd pay it off, but you're not going to. So, good luck with that.

>> It'll become someone else's problem. Your your kids will deal with the estate planning and pay it off for you. >> It's not a big This really doesn't matter. So, Carolina is in Las Vegas.

Hi, Carolina. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I just wanted to ask how you would recommend paying off $90,000 in

debt uh while in school and saving for

my daughter's college fund.

>> Uh, okay. Are you married?

>> Yes, I am. >> What does your husband make?

>> Uh, he makes 2,800 a month.

>> And you're in school studying what?

Um, I'm getting my master's in applied behavior analysis.

>> To do what?

>> Uh, to work with children with disabilities would be to be a supervisor. >> Okay. All right. Making what?

>> In the future. >> Mhm.

>> Um, it says on the internet, right? Um, it says that I would make close to 100,000 a year.

>> Um, and that's what I know. Between 90 to 100. >> What's your husband do? Mhm.

>> Um he is a driving instructor.

>> Okay. And what's his plan for his career?

>> Um so in January he starts welding school. Um so he's trying to do that.

>> Excellent. How old are you guys? 23.

>> I'm 28 and he is 33.

>> Oh, missed that. Okay. And and your

baby's how old?

>> She just turned six.

>> Okay. Well, the formula that we have to

work with is income minus outgo.

Your income is low because you're not working and he's not working much or he's not making much. It's a better way of saying it. Right. Right.

>> You guys haven't got a lot. It's not like you're buying coach purses on the weekend. Okay. I mean, you're you don't have any money. 2,800 in a family of three and you're in school. Who's how you paying for school?

Um, so I took out a $50,000 loan.

>> And when do you finish school?

>> Uh, 18 months.

>> Okay. >> And total balance of student loans is 90K. And there's more debt on top of

that. >> Uh, no. No. It's 90k debt in total.

Yeah. >> Okay. I don't think you're going to get out of debt until you get your income up. But the good news is you have plans to get both of you to get your income up.

I mean, his income is going to double when he gets gets his welding certificate or more depending on what he's doing and and then you're going to get out in 18 months and make money and then you guys are going to plow through this. But right now, you're making $34,000 a year and you have a little baby. So, you're probably not going to make big dents in this 90K. Is that fair?

>> Yeah. >> But I would work. I mean, you can work and he can work and you can do side jobs and let's let's do what we can to bring in extra money because you don't have much money coming in.

>> I'm looking forward to the day that your shovel is bigger in order to fill up this hole, >> right? >> And that that's what I think and and that's okay. That's not the end of the world. Don't go in any more debt. Okay.

>> Yeah. We we um like turned off our

credit cards and things like that.

>> Like I want to turn off these student loans. >> No more. >> Yeah. >> No more student loans.

>> Can you finish school with no more student loans?

>> Yeah. That's 50,000 for the entire entire course. >> Okay. >> And to your question, I would not be investing in a college fund right now.

No. We've got a priority of knocking out this debt. And so every dollar needs to go toward that. We'll make up for lost time in a few years and you'll still have a great runway of a decade to save up for college. >> You make you make 30 something thousand a year now, you'll be making $130 in 24

to 36 months and you knock this debt out

and then you start saving for college and you work right up the baby steps the way we teach. But today, you don't have extra cash laying around to do either.

>> And so, uh, first thing is take care of your own household. Don't add any more debt. And then if you can scratch together a little bit more, both of you working some extra jobs or something, you want to throw something at the 90, doesn't make me mad, but I'm just not going to put heavy expectations on you because again, you have a very a $90,000 hole and a small income. That's your

shovel. So, but the good news is you're

doing something about that. Both of you are going to get sizable upgrades in income, and that's just wonderful. Good for you. Congratulations.

Very cool, man. The trades, the trades are the answer for a lot of these folks.

A lot of people moving that direction nowadays. And so >> people are wondering where all the jobs are. Trades. >> Step into the welding, step into the diesel mechanic, step into the heavy equipment operator, and you step into six figures pretty quick.

>> And um makes Mike Row happy to hear that. And it's uh but he's right. He's he's on to something. He's been on to something since before it was cool. He was an early adopter.

>> But there you go. Good stuff.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. John is

with us in Huntsville. Hey John, how are you? >> Doing well. Doing well. Thank you guys for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Kind of stuck in a financial and a moral dilemma and I don't know which way to go. >> Okay. Uh brief backstory is

father passed away about 12 years ago.

Uh I inherited the business solely. Uh built it up. Now I've sold it off.

The moral side of that is none of my

family members knows that I've sold it yet. And um they weren't part of it.

They had no business dealings with it.

But after our father died, it just seemed like I was the sibling that everyone came to for everything, you know, and just listening

to you guys, you know, I think that

with the sale of that business and selling the home I'm currently in, I would wind up being debtree completely and have quite a bit at, you know, 46 years old to be able to retire with.

And I'm just I'm wondering I guess, you know, have I been too deceptive with with what's going on or

it's like nobody ever calls to say, "Hey, how are you doing?" It's always, "Hey, I need this or that or the other." And I guess I'm too much like my dad in that that respect.

>> Okay. Um I don't know. Um,

it it sounds like you're um to to what extent have you been helping?

How much money or what have you been doing?

>> I've bailed one brother out of two different mortgages twice.

>> Mhm. >> Um >> to the tune of like a hundred grand or something.

>> A couple hundred thousand. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, you gave him a couple hundred,000.

It was it was a uh it was a loan and uh I know I know where you're going with that, but I haven't been paid back. I've gotten about 30,000 of it back.

>> Yeah. >> But that was >> What about what about everybody else? What about everybody else?

>> Uh one sister um if we're keeping track,

she probably owes me around 65,000 >> for what?

>> Uh apparently there were some uh medical procedures that I was told was dire.

um that was more cosmetic than medical.

>> Mhm. >> And >> Okay. >> You know, our dad, >> have you have you have you made the determination that this was really not helpful in the end that their lives pretty much ended up about where they began and so you really didn't cause them to suddenly become prosperous with your gifts?

>> That is great. >> Yeah. So, does that give you the courage does that give you the courage to say no next time?

>> There's there's where a problem lies because I I I really it's not a they

always play on that you know how daddy was kind of thing. >> Well, daddy's gone, honey. And that and so now you're daddy. You got to grow up and I can't help you. You got already gave you 200 grand. I already gave you 60 grand to have your tummy tucked and I'm done.

I mean that grow up. These are grown

people. Now, you don't have to be that mean to them, but that's what needs to go through your head so that you can just smile and say, "Gosh, I hope it works out for you." But I'm not daddy.

Daddy's gone.

>> Yeah. So, I've in the one good thing was the business broker that we were involved with uh had mentioned, you know, have you ever heard of this program? And of course I, you know, I grew up in Franklin, so I' I'd heard of y'all's y'all's courses and stuff before >> and I just felt like from a deception side of it cuz literally moving completely out of state.

>> I don't you know, you could just tell them I sold the business, own my house, but you don't you don't owe them any explanation or cut.

You know that, right?

>> Yes, sir. I think there's some survivors guilt here because you've done well and you've seen them struggle and you go, "Well, I guess they deserve some of this because you're a good person, but the problem is you're being manipulated and abused." >> Yeah. >> By these people and the only time they reach out to you is for more money, right?

>> More money or >> So you're Bank of John >> work done at their Yeah. >> There's no relationship to salvage here.

If you keep giving them more money, you just continue the transaction. >> So no, I you you don't have an obligation. So there's not real deception, but you're just not wanting to tell them because you think they're going to come for money. They want some of it.

And so and you're you're you're just going to have to get emotionally prepared because at some point this is going to come out. >> Whether you make a big deal about it or whether you don't, if you just go, "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm leaving. We sold the house. We sold the business." Um what?

Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're doing. And so, you know, um we'll stay in touch and let you know where we land cuz we love you.

as far as like because like I said I am 46. Um and you know I just kind of I

want not want to retire fully. I just I

just want to relax for a while. Like I've been working with my dad since I was seven and I'm I'm tired. >> Yeah. What kind of business did you sell?

>> It was a uh a construction services company. >> Okay. Good for you.

>> All right. So, the f first let's stay with the first part of the conversation for a moment and then we'll come to the second part. >> The first part of the conversation, sir, is you need to pick up Henry Cloud's book. It's called boundaries.

You don't have any >> That's called boundaries. >> Boundaries. Your boundaries. You don't have any fences. Fences are down on your farm and the animals keep getting in and the animals keep getting out and you need fences. Okay? You know what I'm

talking about. you your no button is broken and you need to fix it because you're not really helping. You're just being weak.

Am I wrong?

>> It's hard to hear, but no, you're not wrong. >> Okay. So, just fix your no button.

That's good for your brother. It's good for your sister. If you want to call them, if they call up and say something, just go, "Hey, listen. I tell you what I'm going to do. That money that you that I loaned you, just don't worry about it. Forget it for because you're not going to get it anyway, by the way.

But so ju just forgive it and and say but but we're done. We won't be doing any more business transactions. Okay?

You're my brother. You're my sister. I love you, but we're not doing any more money transactions. Those loans are forgiven. I'm not going to make that mistake again. So don't ask. And just you need to get you need to fix your no button. It's broken. Now then that sets you up with the money that you've made.

And so what' the business sell for? How much you got?

>> Uh 1,230,000.

>> Congratulations. That's not enough to retire on at 46, >> but it is enough. >> I already have >> But it is enough. >> I already have some saved. >> How much?

>> Uh two and a quart million.

>> Okay. All right. So, you got $3 million net worth. Okay. You could quit. Um but I don't want you to quit. I want you to take a break and decide what the next chapter is. You know what an encore is

after the band has played all their greatest hits and they left off one and the Eagles, everybody's clapping and the Eagles come back out on stage, right?

and and yes, you know, they play one more song >> and it's what it delights the crowd. You got one more song in you or two or three. You're only 46 and fishing and

golf will get old after a while. You You need to lay your hand to something. You don't have to work 60 hours a week. You don't have to bust your hump, but you could kind of cruise into something and be of value to your fellow man because you're a smart guy. You're a wise guy.

You're a kind guy. You're a person of character. And we actually need you operating businesses in the marketplace.

America needs men like you and women like you to do stuff. So take a little break. A year from now, I want you to start something, something you've always dreamed of that's been tickling in the back of your head. And I want you to spend a little of this money getting it getting it going. And I want you to make make yourself useful because you're going to have more joy that way than you will sitting on your butt.

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Angel's in San Francisco. Hi, Angel. How are you?

>> Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for taking my call. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm a little confused. Uh, I

worked my whole life since I was probably 12 years old, and everything I've done to create money is basically

on my back. You know, I I bought a property. I had a small house. I built a second home in the back. um from the plumbing to the electrical to the foundation, everything was me to save some money. Um now I'm renting the property in the front, but everything that I everything else that I do is always labor and I make pretty decent

money and I'm wondering what where can I put my money in so it makes me money and I don't go on vacation with my with my wife and kids and I'm thinking, man, the truck is parked and I'm losing money every day while I'm here in vacation, right? So, I have that stress of not making money if I'm not working.

Is that Does that make sense to you guys? >> Yeah. Are you running a business?

>> Yes, I got a trucking business, but um technically I'm an owner operator, right? Um I make about a yearly about

325,000.

Um my wife works as well, but whenever the truck is parked or it breaks down, there's there's no income coming in.

>> Yeah. >> And that's where I'm having trouble. So all it all it is is you own your job.

>> Yes, that's it. >> Yeah. And so if you don't work, you don't make money because you own your job. It's it's straight commission.

Yeah. >> And so uh the only thing you can do

is to grow that business and have

several other people doing that work that work for you and then they're working when you're not. But until then, you're you're a one you're a soloreneur.

We call it a single person small business. And it does all depend on you.

You're you're on a treadmill. And so, uh, you're stuck on that. And that's not bad. You're making 300. Like you said, you're making 320,000. So, shut up and take a week off. That's okay. You can take you can go on vacation. It's not going to kill you.

>> You're not going to go hungry if you take a week off when you're making 320 grand. >> No. So here's here's the thing though.

I'm I'm in California. So in California to to get drivers to get other trucks and going the profit cuz I already done it before. The profit it's it's not there and it's not worth all the stress and and and the headache. So um

>> so you're going to own your job >> and when you're not working or when the truck's broken, you're not making money there. I mean that that that's your reality and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just you just know what it is. But there's not really a fix for it except to do something else.

>> Well, that's I guess that's why I'm I'm calling you guys to see where um >> what do you want to do? Do you want to It sounds like you don't want to scale and delegate this and you don't want to do it all on your own. >> What is it you want to do?

>> I I want to I want to >> I want to be able to put my money somewhere where it makes money and it's not it's not on my back all the time. Do

you want you want quote passive income?

>> Yes, passive income. >> Okay. >> Um and yesterday I ran into one of you guys' um commercials and you know I I I

put my link I put some information and I got about 40 people calling me. They you know saying works for you and this and that and they're throwing me one way and the other way and that's why I called you guys today. I'm trying to figure out >> Okay. You you did not you did not you did not get in touch with us. We don't have 40 people to call you.

Yeah, that's uh you got you got scammed one of the >> You got scammed. It's some kind of AI bull crap or something. Yeah. >> Be careful what you click on on the internet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. That's why I called you yesterday. >> Okay. So, what have you been doing any investing with this money? Cuz you're making amazing money. Where is it all going? Where's this 2530 grand going every month?

>> Okay. So, um so when I bought the

property, I had a small house. I built a second home for us in the back and now I'm renting the the house in the front.

>> What are you doing with the money that comes in every month?

>> Um, so I just uh I purchased some uh they're called luxury bathrooms, restrooms for events.

I purchased some of those. So, you're spending all the money coming in to start new businesses

>> to to start >> to reinvest something >> cuz you have a trucking business and now you're talking about buying luxury bathrooms.

>> Yes. Just in case just in case the the trucking business doesn't doesn't feed me anymore. Maybe, you know, the other business will, right? But again, the other business is always me hauling the bathroom from here to there. So I I wanted to invest on on the market or I wanted to invest somewhere where I can I

can >> So you want to stop investing in all these multi- businesses because you can't be a serial entrepreneur and do it all at once. And so you're wanting to invest it elsewhere like in mutual funds in the stock market.

>> Something like that. Yeah, that's what I need. >> Yeah. But here's the thing, okay?

Running a small business always makes a lot more money for the money invested than investing it in anything else. If you bought a rental property and paid cash for it, it doesn't, you know, put 500 grand into that, it doesn't pay you

what if you took that same 500 grand and opened a business. It' pay you a lot more, but you've got to work more as you have figured out. So, um, no, I would not open six businesses and call that investing. That's just serial entrepreneur and they're all going to fail because of lack of focus.

I would not do that. decide what businesses you want to be in and very carefully and very diligently and very gradually make your move into those and away from trucking so that you can get off the road because it sounds like that's really what you need to do.

business. And I put money in good growth stock mutual funds. And you can find a

person that doesn't work for me, but that we recommend called a smart vester pro on our website only at not on

Instagram. You can't find them there.

You can find them on our website at ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvester. they'll sit down with you and help you do some mutual fund investing. Um, and but you

know, you're not putting enough money in there right now to not have to work.

It's going to be a long time before you get there. Um, and and then I personally

also buy real estate that I pay cash for, but I would only recommend that to you after your 100% debt-free house and

truck and everything.

And so, I'm going to get you completely out of debt. that frees up all your money to build wealth with and to be generous with. And that's how I have done mine.

Okay?

And folks, if if 40 different people call you and say they work for Ramsay and they have things to sell you, they don't work for Ramsay because we don't do that. >> You're about to get scammed. Don't fall for it. We >> we don't have that. Okay? We have a network of people that we endorse that

are real estate people. And so if you click on our website and say I want a real estate agent that's Ramsey trusted, we'll send that to you. If you click on Smart Investor Pro and want to talk to somebody about doing investing, we'll send those people to you. They don't work for us, but they're also not going to be 40 of them calling you and and we

don't have stuff that we're calling you to sell you. Okay? It's not what we do here. So that that's some of the AI crap. There's something on there the other day. Somebody sent me the apparently my it's like kung fu movie or something. My mouth doesn't even match the words. Is it like a car alone? Like a car insurance >> insurance thing. Dave doesn't believe in insurance agents or something.

>> But how stupid is AI? Cuz they said Dave, this is Dave's mouth. I love my Tesla. And I went, "Wow, AI do better if you think that's what >> Yeah, it's not It wasn't even AI. It's just a bad It's a bad edit by >> some Russian scam artist or something. I don't But yeah, that's probably what you've gotten into, honey. So, we're we just don't get into all that stuff. We're very simple people here.

>> All right. Open phones at8255225.

Hey, Christian, just for the fun of it, send him a copy of building a business you love with the five stages of business. He's stuck in treadmill. Maybe that book will help him. It's a bestseller angel on how to operate a business and the stages of business. The my latest bestseller. It's the last book I did, matter of fact. And so, um, I'll send that to you as a gift. And you're you're a fellow entrepreneur for sure.

>> You just need some some clarity, some vision, some direction. He's just doing all of it. >> Stay. Yeah. Don't don't do everything at once. And Jack of all trades, master of none. Don't don't don't lose your focus.

Just figure out a couple things. Do those well, and just keep pushing. Keep pushing the rock.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debtree stage. Alex and Amanda are with

us. How are you guys? Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas. We're doing great. How about you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? >> Live in Altuna, Pennsylvania. Basically in the middle of nowhere, Pennsylvania.

>> I love it. That's a pretty area actually. >> Oh, awesome. >> Very nice. Very cool. Welcome to Tennessee. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> $100,000. >> I love it. And how long did this take?

>> Five years. >> Five years. And your range of income during that time? >> Between 80 and 130.

>> Okay. And what kind of debt was the 100,000? >> That was our mortgage, Dave. >> Mortgage. >> You're weird people. It's a little bitty mortgage, but you knocked her out.

Congratulations. What's that house worth? >> About 400. Very cool. And how much in your nest egg these days in your retirement accounts? A >> little over 150.

>> All right. Very cool. So sitting right there at 550 heading towards a million dollars. How old are you two?

>> 34. >> I'm 35. >> And a paid for house. How weird are y'all?

>> Very cool. All right. Tell us the story.

What started this five years ago or more? And how did you get connected to Ramsay? >> So this really started about nine years, almost 10 years ago now. Um Amanda's parents, my in-laws for one of our wedding gifts got us Financial Peace University >> and um we started

>> Daveish >> and then we had our never again moment which we had $12 in our bank account. We weren't going to get paid for about a week and we were >> we were looking through our couches looking for change >> and basically living on beans and rice.

>> Yeah. >> Got paid um did a baby step uh did our

first baby step number one, $1,000 and we never looked back. All right.

>> Um, we paid off about $85,000 in a car and student loans. >> Oh, good. Okay. >> At that point, so we got rid of all our consumer debt.

>> And then after that, we decided that we're going to move to we were living in New Jersey at the time and we decided that we're going to move to Altuna, Pennsylvania. >> Yeah. >> Now, during all of this, we really struggled with infertility. >> Mhm.

>> So, we um, you know, we purchased our house. >> We got we uh put a really nice down payment on it >> and then we adopted embryos during that time. >> Oh, wow. We cash everything.

We cash flowed everything. >> Wow.

>> Very cool.

>> That's awesomeness. Proud of y'all.

About as good a use of money as I can think of. >> Absolutely. >> Well done. Good for you guys. That's so powerful. How's it feel to be 34 years old and completely debtree? >> It feels so good. >> So good. It's awesome. It's awesome.

>> Very freeing. >> It's doable. >> It is. >> What do you do for a living? Um, I actually just got promoted. I'm the chief financial officer of a small startup, uh, health in healthcare.

>> And, uh, >> and I'm a social media coordinator.

>> All right. Good for you. And a lot of mom, huh? >> Yes. >> Three littles running around. >> Enjoying every moment. So, what was the hardest part over five years? Cuz that's a longer journey, you know, baby step six. It's not as aggressive. Did you ever lose steam? What kind of kept you going?

Um, I'd have to say it was just uh

communication and just leaning on each other. And every time we just we we had these like little thermometers. Every time we'd put another chunk on the mortgage, we'd color some more.

>> Oh, there they are. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, >> so making visual really helped you guys.

>> Yeah, the visual really helped. >> And every next, you know, $10,000, you're like, "Oh my gosh, we're one step closer." >> Yep. We're getting closer. We can do it.

>> Yeah. It's I mean even another piece of this about what almost a year and a half ago I got laid off from my job >> and we weren't nervous, we weren't scared and we were pregnant with twins at the time. >> Oh. >> And we were like, "Okay, what's a severance look like? We'll we'll make it happen." And um that was an absolute blessing because my job was super stressful. It took away from my family at the at the time. We had a young we had a young daughter and obviously a

wife as well. And it was an absolute

blessing because we were able to take a little bit of a risk in the next job and that's been uh unbelievable for us. Such

a blessing. >> Gave you options. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's amazing. Well done you guys. All right. When people hear that you've been on this journey and you've done all of this and now you're debtree, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is?

>> I'd say being on the same page.

>> Yeah. Working together. You can do anything if you work together and you communicate together. Um, I mean, anything anything is possible. It really is. >> So, why did you move from Jersey to Altuna? >> Amanda's family lives in Altuna, and we were traveling there about two, three times a month, putting a lot of mileage on the car. >> Okay. All right. And but I'm guessing you it was a major cost of living shift.

>> Huge. Absolutely. >> Huge cost of living shift. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Tax base and everything. Yeah.

Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> It was crazy. We both got jobs on the same day. God sent us jobs. It was It all just worked out. >> Just worked out perfectly. >> Yeah. in Altuna to to facilitate the move. Yeah. Okay. Wow. From >> no income to dual income just like that.

>> Yeah. I like it. Very cool. That's fun, guys, because we often are talking to people and going, you know, you may have to move, >> you know, and you doesn't, you know, what you're trying to do doesn't fit there and you may have to move and so I always wonder cuz, you know, you made the choice to move to a more rural area and obviously a lower cost of living area and that kind of thing, but it's a great place to build a family.

>> Absolutely. Uh, but you got to have an income.

Perfect. >> I love it cuz that's inspiring for other people listening right now. Some people are stuck in a market they can't afford to live in >> and they need to unstuck themselves and that then that'll get them moving. That that's good. Good for you guys. >> Six figures in a low low cost of living area. I mean that's a wealth hack. So you guys are you've cracked the code here and it's only uphill from here or I guess downhill. >> Yeah. Way to go guys. Proud of you. Who

was cheering you on along the way?

>> I would say us two were our biggest motivators, but also our families were huge to the >> I mean they gave you they gave you Financial Peace University 10 years ago.

So they got to be going. I'm glad it worked.

>> Support and you brought grandbabies to my neighborhood. So that's good.

>> Everybody's happy, right? So there you go. I like it. Grandpa's happy. My grandma's happy. So >> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah. They they got to be cheering you on. I'm proud of Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. Very good. All right.

All right. You want to bring up the littles? Are they going to cheer with you? >> They're going to cheer with us. >> All right. What are their names and their ages? >> We have Isabella, who's three.

>> We have Alex and Regina, who are 10 months. >> All right. Come on up, guys. Oh, look at

this.

>> All right. Oh, look at these guys.

They're great. >> That's a good reason to become debtree right there. >> Very cool. Yeah, there's a good why right there in that picture. Good job.

See, those kids are not old enough they're even going to remember that this happened. But their parents were heroes and changed their whole family tree by deciding to do this. Sitting here completely debtree at 34 years old, be millionaires in another four and a half to 5 years. Pretty impressive stuff.

Very well done. Alex and Amanda, Isabella, Alex and Regina from Pennsylvania. $100,000 paid off the last

portion. That would be their mortgage.

They're weird. Did it in 5 years making 80 to 130. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> All right, get ready. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Y

love it. >> Oh man, those the little 10-month-olds are going to be watching this on YouTube in like 20 38.

>> Yeah. >> Going watching vintage clips.

>> When the old man old lady made us rich when we got out of debt.

>> Your show is going to be vintage. That's pretty cool. You never know. At some point, everything becomes vintage. >> Yeah. Well, I don't want to talk about that right now, but Yeah. I was vintage a long time ago, George. I'm way past vintage now. I'm over into antique.

>> So, man, >> you got a special license plate for that at least. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's so >> I want the license plate that has no speed limit. That's the one I want. I can't >> I can't get that one. But yeah, you guys are incredible. Alex and Amanda, look at these heroes, man. This is so powerful.

Are are we seeing more and more people in their early 30s because they had their financial peace babies. The parents got them onto financial peace.

They actually believed that it could happen. >> They grew up in a household. So when they got married, they had to apply it. And 10 years, nine years later, here we are. Including, you know, three babies on the way that and there's a lot of cash flowing going on with this story.

>> Oh yeah. >> These guys. Um, but I I just want to encourage we hear all these people talking about affordability and they can't afford to live and you know these guys make 80 to 130

and they move to Altuna, Pennsylvania and they're doing unbelievably well.

It's still possible there. There's a formula here that notice the correlation, boys and girls. Yeah. They

can afford to live there.

It's affordability. Wow. People forget

you can choose where you live. You can choose the job you have. >> Interesting. >> But it's going to take sacrifice.

>> Interesting.

The holidays can come with a lot of pressure to spend. Family, friends, secret Santa at the office, all the things. But y'all, this season should be about peace, not payments. That's a big

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Christmas is going to be here in about 20 minutes. Are you guys ready? I mean, it's here. Boom. Just like that. I mean, where' 2025 go? I mean, just I just blinked and it's gone. Yeah. Uh and and

consequently, we are running all the appropriate Christmas sales at the Ramsay store here at Ramsey Solutions.

Rachel Cruz's kids books are on sale for just $13. These are very good,

meaningful gifts for little ones. If you want stocking stuffers or grandma, grandpa, you want to buy something for your grandkids, little kids, is fun, easy way to teach them about contentment and gratitude and generosity. Those are the three uh themes of the three books.

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know how to do that. Savannah's in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hey, Savannah. How are you?

>> Great. Great to talk to you both.

>> You, too. >> So, my question is, my husband and I are in our early 30s. Um, I stay home with

two toddlers and my husband works. He makes 75,000 a year. Um, we have no debt

other than our house. Um, and we are currently not saving for retirement. We make enough just to cover normal expenses without living too uncomfortably. And then some months we can save a little. Some months we aren't able to put anything into savings. Um, >> how much is your house payment? >> Should we be living? What's that?

>> How much is your house payment?

>> Uh, we have 150 left.

>> No, your payment.

>> Oh, it's uh, 1300 a month.

>> Okay. And you make $75,000 a year.

>> Yes. >> So $7,000 a month minus taxes. So he's

getting home with five,

>> right?

>> It's about4500.

>> How much was your tax refund?

>> Um I think about we just had a baby so

2,000 but this year it'll be about 300.

Okay. Where's the money going out of his check then?

>> Because that's not your taxes are not that high.

>> Okay. Um we have insurance, HSA. We

contribute about 150 or 200 to our HSA

each paycheck. >> Mhm. >> Um so maybe that's it.

>> No.

How much was the insurance?

Um, I believe, if I recall correctly, 250.

>> Still not right. That doesn't add up to your That doesn't add up to $75,000 a year. >> You're missing something. >> Okay. >> Okay. Something's gone. So, that I'm trying to find out why you've got a pinch because with no your house payment is reasonable and um given given your

income and you don't have a single of the debt. You don't have a car payment. You don't have anything. >> No. No. >> Okay. >> I don't know where your money's going then. I think you need to be on a written budget because you should be able to save 15% of that which would be about $1,000 a month and retire with dignity. >> Okay. >> Does he get paid twice a month? >> We are He does. Yeah, it's about Yeah,

it's 2200 a month or sorry, every two weeks. >> We are on a written budget. I watch all our money coming from his paycheck. I don't know.

I'm less familiar with what happens to his paycheck before it comes to us. So, taxes and everything. I'd sit down tonight with him and just take a look at it and see all the deductions that are coming out cuz what should be happening if you invest 15% into his, you know, workplace retirement plan, that's about $468 that would be coming out for the 401k. So now the goal is how can we live on the rest that actually shows up in the bank account and then budget off of that.

That should become your reality. And that might mean we need to cut some expenses cuz all of a sudden it's too tight.

And that's the part I think we can drill down on and figure out. >> Yeah. >> And an every dollar budget will help you guys do that. So I would sit down tonight and make >> What does he do for a living?

>> He's an operation supervisor at a manufacturing plant. >> Okay. All right. Well, and the other the other question I'm going to begin to ask myself is what are our career plans right now? You're a full-time mom, right?

>> Yeah. Our our plans are I would love to go back to work when they get in school and he would love to leave his job any day. >> Mhm. Okay. Yeah. So, I'd be working, but

obviously for an upgrade. We don't want to leave his job for a downgrade. That that's kind of counterproductive to this whole discussion. So, yeah. So, as your careers increase, you're going to find more wiggle room probably. And um but um

you know, you're making an average American household income. 78,000 is the average right now. Okay. And you've got and you've got a decent you've done a great job, by the way, to stay out of debt.

Most people in this situation call me up with a car payment or two and and a student loan hanging around and then can't figure out why they're broke >> or their mortgage is three grand and they make4,500 a month. Yeah. And so you guys don't fall into that. >> Yeah.

you should be about 5,000 a month take-home right now. So, I've still got I've still I'm still tickling my brain cuz it's 6,300 bucks.

talking about every two weeks. I'm talking about monthly. So, that's that

throws it a little bit because you've got two magic months if you're getting paid two week every two weeks. Two two magic months where you get three paychecks and that throws the numbers off a little. So, that um that might

that might get you back to where you need to be. I might you might be right.

It might be about right. Um so cuz

you're not really making 4,500 a month.

You see what I'm saying?

You've you've got two months where you get extra 2200 bucks.

>> So we do a four-week budget and a fiveweek budget based on the projection.

So we do 12 of those. So I think we have about two or three fiveweek budgets and the rest are four-week. So four-week budgets are four. >> There should be two. There should be two where you've got a five three paycheck and and one and and the rest of them are

not. So 10 otherwise >> because it's a that's the way the twoe cycle works. So yeah, if you're doing that with your every dollar, um the the

extra 2,200 the extra $4,500 a year

might make up the difference and mean that I'm see I was running everything saying you ought to come home with more than $4,500 a month and you do

>> because it's actually about 5,000 let's

say $4,500.

It's about It's almost $5,000 a month average that you're coming home with, which is what it needs to be. So, you're you're probably not going to find a bunch of stuff in this check, >> but look at it anyway. Be sure.

>> So, um >> Okay.

>> Yeah. What I would be very concerned with is um those two months when you get

that extra check, if you could just invest all of that

and live on the 4500 every single month,

you'd be okay. That would get you started on your investing.

>> Okay? >> You see how I'm doing that? Just pretend like you didn't get those checks. Just just live the whole thing on 4500 take-home pay, 1300.

And you know, it's not you've not got a you're not living opulently and you've been very responsible and have done a very good job. I don't want to leave this call with you thinking we've judged you cuz it's quite the opposite. You're impressive. I really like what you've done.

You've done a lot with a little and um and you've got a good long-term plan where he upgrades and you go back to work and your income's going to go through the roof. You're going to be at 150,000 when that those two things happen. >> So, yeah. uh and then zoom zoom on building up your retirement at that point.

Okay, you'll be fine. So, you're not you're not in trouble and you've done a very good job avoiding debt and managing the money that you have.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah, but maybe the maybe the hack is for now take the two magic months, the third that have the extra check and throw that whole check into a Roth IRA.

And so that at least gets $5,000 a year going, at least gets something moving that way. And then as you see some increases from whatever, make sure you start jacking up 401k contributions steadily as you as you get to more and more room in the budget. And for God's sakes, don't go into debt. So you've done a great job avoiding it so far.

So Savannah, you've really I mean I I I would put them in the top 5% of Americans and how good a job they've done. >> Oh yeah. I mean that's a solid income and no debt and they're living very reasonably.

>> Very carefully. Yeah. It's not opulent.

I mean, they're not living some kind of fancy pants life. >> No, you can't at that point.

>> If you dial in that investing and learn to live on what comes after that, you're going to be just fine. >> Amen. You're going to make great

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. George

Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host.

I am Dave Ramsey. We're glad you're here. Thanks for joining us. Hannah is in Indianapolis. Hi, Hannah. How are you?

>> I'm good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um considering I'm I'm doing okay.

Um I recently lost my job um last

Friday. >> Wow. What happened? And um well um they

said that um I wasn't productive enough

in downtime.

Um and which we had a lot of downtime but not a lot of busy work. Um so all of the work that I was given I would always complete on time. Um and just wasn't like super

engaged. It was a really great job. I don't feel like I extremely enjoyed it.

Um, but it was um a small office setting

and um there was just a lot of downtime and really not enough work to go around between me and the other um office

administrator. >> So, did they give you a severance package? >> They gave me a two week severance package, which I'm really grateful for.

I wasn't expecting it. Um I have about

4,000 in savings.

>> Mhm. Um, my barebones, no extras budget

is about 3,500 a month.

>> Um, I had just recently went back to working a part-time job last month. Um,

>> and was kind of using that to, you know,

kind of keep >> not a whole lot. It's $12 an hour. It's a serving job. Um, it brings in, you know, between $4 and $500 a month. It was just on the weekends.

>> Um, I'm a single mom. I don't get um

child support. I don't get court ordered supposed to get um 50% of their expenses

paid as far as like medical extracurricular and things like that.

But um I currently have quite a balance that's owed to me that you know hasn't been paid and I'm not getting any financial help from my ex-husband. Um am

going back to court within a month um

due to other reasons. But >> what were you making at the job you lost?

I was making um 27 an hour.

>> Okay. What kind of role was it? >> I paid for my insurance fully. I didn't have any out of pocket for my insurance.

>> What were you doing? What was your job title? >> Um AP, AR, payroll,

um regular like office type duties, things like that. >> Okay.

Man. >> And so going back four weeks before Christmas is when they decided they have to do this.

>> Yes. >> This is strange. >> Yes. And I actually had to stop back in there yesterday and um a family member was already in there training for that spot. So I don't know if it's something that they had had planned. I don't see them in that light. Like in general, I think they're really great people. Um

but uh it was definitely kind of a shot to my pride a little bit. Um, >> so I don't know. But, um, so I'm kind of

freaking out. Um, it's also court ordered that I I'm the one that has to

carry the insurance and they paid for my insurance fully. >> Yeah. Well, you you'll get you'll get that the next position. So really the this just means that we have to just really really really >> it it's um

you're forced to set the emotions that normally go with this aside and just dive straight into a job hunt.

>> Yeah, I was really sad Friday. Saturday I was I can do it. I redid my resume, did my cover letter, and then Sunday and yesterday I started to panic. um went back I used to Uber on the side so I went back and I Ubered yesterday and it was kind of depressing.

I didn't really I was out and about for about four or five hours and just didn't make anything. The the big town that's next to me is >> the traffic's congested so it's just hard to get >> Yeah. >> runs. It's just hard to make money with it.

>> Yeah.

you need to panic but I do need to think you need to I'm with you. It's fair to be very concerned >> because you know this is going to run out and >> you know you got you got two weeks and you've got a little bit of money and that's it. And so you you got you got you got six weeks >> minus you probably got eight weeks cuz you can add to it with your uh server job which you can probably gear up and that's probably going to be more productive than Uber >> uh actually.

So >> yeah, it really is. It really is. And I'm putting miles on my car and I I have a nice car.

>> I don't think Uber I don't think Uber is your plan, but but what we do need to do is land the next full-time gig that has the insurance and it has the you know the $30 an hour thing and so and it sounds like you've got some accounting training.

>> So I was in banking for eight years.

>> Um loved uh between I started out as a

teller, moved to a banker, I was an assistant manager, a branch manager, I did retail support. Mh.

>> Um, and I I feel like I really thrive in

that busy environment. Um, when there's too much downtime in a slow setting, I get really distracted and it is hard for me to maintain like a productivity. So, I just I like to be busy and I do like as draining as customer service can be, I feel like I excel when it's, you know,

customer focused or just people focused.

>> I enjoy, you know, leadership roles.

I've been a trainer before.

>> Um it's just really hard in the area that I live because I don't live I live about an hour from Indie and >> um a lot of the jobs that I know that you know I could get hired you know in a couple days it's you know $15 an hour and >> you may you may need to be moving to Indie. >> Yeah. If you got a job making 80,000 would you just moved and go work there?

What's stopping you from moving? Um, if I got a job in Indie or like a close cuz

there's some like distributions stuff up there that I could maybe do. Um, I would just I would just have to commute as far as um my

It really comes down to how important my home is. I only owe 80,000 on it. It's

probably worth 300. Um, >> if you can get a job in banking making 80 in Indie, sell it and move.

>> Yeah. I well I applied for a branch manager position um about 45 minutes away and the salary is between 70 and 100. >> There you go. >> Um >> and you can keep keep your house or make that commute. Yeah, I'm fine with that.

>> The the the management position that I held um it was a more of a it was like a a community bank, a state bank, and they didn't do a lot of like outside relations um that like relationship management portion that a lot of the credit unions do. So, I applied to a credit union and their their managers, their branch managers are rarely ever actually like in office. They're kind of out rubbing elbows and things like that.

So, that's stuff I don't have a whole lot of experience in. I would love to.

>> I think that I think those are your answers. So, you're right on track. We can't hire you, so I'm not going to interview you, but the uh but I do want you to continue down that track. And here's the thing. I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book and I want you to go to kenleman.com and look at his website on all the different things in the letters and the resume covers and all that. It's very very important that you fi figure out who you know

from somewhere kids soccer wherever it

is you know them from. you know them from church that works in one of these companies or if you know someone that knows someone that works in one of these companies that they can get you they can

handwalk your resume into the boss's office and say, "Hey, look at this lady.

She's sharp. Give her a look, please.

She's a friend of a friend. Give her a look." And that doesn't get you hired, but it gets a look and it gets your resume out of the stack. And so the proximity principle is the idea. And it's a book that Ken wrote. I'm going to send you a copy of that. Also going to send you a copy of Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. Hannah, you're going to be fine cuz you're so proactive.

You're going to be just fine. >> That's the key.

Jack is in Kansas City. Hi, Jack. How are you? >> Life's good. >> Good, man. How can we help? Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. Thank you. So, I'm a 76y old retired electrician

slashcontractor that has found the lady that he'd like to marry. And um I was married for 53

years. Um I my wife passed away for the

last 5 years. Didn't think this person

would be there for me, but she is.

And that's kind of where we are. My children um now are becoming concerned

about uh trust funds, prenap wheels,

and uh all my children are followers of

Dave Ramsey. And I said, "Well, do you ever listen to Dave where he says, "You're one.

You don't need two checking accounts.

You live together.

You talk about important things like how

we spend the money, church, God, those

things. >> Mhm. >> So, um, we've had some hard feelings of

things that have been said, mostly negative things about my fiance of um of

uh not supported, but in their minds.

And um uh in my position, I go to her defense

because it was unfounded and still unfounded, but you do background checks on people's name and you find out there's a lot of people with the same name. Um so, um trying

>> Am I hearing this correctly, Jack? Let me summarize this for you. Your kids think your new fiance is a gold digger and they want to protect their gold.

>> That's absolutely right.

Um, a matter of fact, we had those >> How long How long have you known your fiance?

>> Um, we have been talking for 12 months.

We've been seeing each other for 9 months. >> Where did you meet her?

>> Online. >> Okay. All right. I'm I'm 65 and I've

been married 43 years.

>> Um, >> I can't imagine being in your shoes because I've not been there, but I can imagine maybe being there someday. Um, >> absolutely. >> And so, um, what is your net worth?

>> I'm at, um, without property, I'm at one, uh,.3.

>> What about property?

>> Uh, there's another, um,

um, mil maybe.

>> Okay. And what is your, um, fiance's net

worth?

um >> 30 >> less.

I I can't tell you the exact number.

>> Okay. Well, I would want to know that if I were in your shoes, here's what I would do. Okay. And you you can do whatever you want to do. you're you're obviously thinking through this clearly and um uh your children um if if their only

motivation is to make sure that you are safe, I appreciate their motivation, even though I might disagree with their tactics and certainly disagree with them being insulting. Okay. But the uh but

but if their if their motivation is to protect what they think is theirs and it's not theirs, well that's just greed and you lose your vote.

>> You lose your ability to give input at that point. Okay.

>> Um but people in my life that that are close to me and that love me, if they have a concern for me, I have to say

thank you for that even if I disagree with it. Okay. So what would I do if

Okay, so I've got a substantial net worth. if Sharon passed away and if I were in the exact same situation and I met someone that I didn't have a long history with and you don't um and u I I

would hire a company and do a full

background check and I would also tell her that I will pay for her to do the same thing on me. It's not an insult.

It's I want to know what's going on and I want you to know what's going on. And you do need to know her entire net worth in detail. She needs to know yours and you do need to have a shared checking account and share your incomes together towards your future. But I would do a pre I would do a prenup on existing assets.

>> Okay. >> Um just because it keeps the weirdness out. Okay. And um and and it's not it's

not a because I'm afraid of this lady.

Uh, I'm more worried anytime the only

time we recommend prenups at Ramsay is when there's a substantial difference and you've got a two or $3 million net worth and she doesn't. So, there's a substantial difference there and that can create weirdness if you don't have the clarity of a prenup.

>> Okay. >> So, I probably would do that. Um, and

then you know, and that's not for your

children's sake, it's for your sake.

Well, that's what they tell me, too. I mean, even though I get irritated, I know they're trying to protect me in the way that they do it.

>> Yeah. Their tactics might be good, but their motivation I mean, their motivation might be good, but their tactics suck. Is that fair?

>> Yeah, that's generous, I'd say.

>> What's the age difference, Jack, between you two? >> We're the same age. It's very unusual.

I'll tell you she's younger >> at heart or she looks younger >> but six no well she does look young she

is 6 months we're both very active we walk we do you know I mean it's like very unusual >> I think you found a companion and I think that's wonderful and I want you to pursue it um but let's just do it this

is not puppy love let's just do it with some wisdom and I would do a detailed background check because you and I both have lived long enough we've seen friends get scammed scammed.

>> Oh yeah. >> And um >> yeah, >> one of my good friends got scammed out of a couple million in a situation like this. It was crazy. But um

>> yeah, it was wow. But so and I don't I don't even smell that here because I what I what I and you know why? Because I trust you and your judgment after talking to you. >> You've got a level of wisdom and I think you've probably got a pretty good nose for stink. And I don't and you don't smell any stink. So, I don't think there is any, but I think it would lay everyone's head on a pillow carefully.

Hers as well. Tell her, "Look, it costs 500 bucks to do a full detailed private investigation background check. Here's 500 bucks, and I want you to hire this company to do a check on me, and I'm going to hire a company to do this check on you, and that way everybody will shut up, and let's do a prenup for the assets, and we're going to combine our incomes and live our lives in a combined manner." But the actual assets that we both enter in with, we would leave with.

And and I think that's probably a smart thing. And it'll give you both a lot of peace. And maybe I'm not really doing

this for the kids. The kids can jump in a creek, but the uh uh but but I'm

trying to give them a little bit of love, saying if their reason, their motivation is to to protect you, that's

okay. But it also if you go to the point that you have to be a jerk about it, then that's obviously out of control. So anyway, that that's what I would do. So good good question. Very interesting.

>> Yeah, it's pretty neat to see that you can find love at that stage of life and it's not a romance scam, which is a breath of fresh air today cuz we've seen so many of those where they go, "Well, I never actually met her and she asked for a bunch of money and I wired it over to her." That I can understand kids concern. This is different. >> That's that's a scam is why. Yeah. But he's he's clearly met her several times.

>> Yeah. >> And she's of the same age. So it's not this like, you know, well, she's in her 40s and, you know, she she just likes me for me and my personality. The kids sniff that out. This is very different.

So >> there's some really I wish them well. >> There's some celebrity versions of that that are downright funny.

>> That's just frightening >> to see those age differences. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, it's it's Yeah. Anyway,

>> we all know we all know >> pop culture news. >> Yeah. But yeah, I tabloids that's not what we're dealing with here and or it doesn't sound like it is. So very interesting. Very interesting. Good discussion. >> So in this case, uh protecting the assets is wise because you've this is your entire life's work of building wealth, you know, building these assets up, which is different than I'm 25 and I want a prenup cuz you know, I feel like she's going to take me to the cleaners.

>> No. Yeah. That's >> this is very different. >> And again, there's a major difference in anytime there's a big difference. One of you have substantial wealth and the other one doesn't. >> Yeah, >> that's what I'm most worried about. >> And I've heard you say it protects from the crazies, the outliers in the family that are going to come after, >> which apparently have shown up.

>> They're already here. Welcome.

On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Christopher is with us. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

>> I'm doing wonderful. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. Where do you live? >> Tucson, Arizona. >> Oh, beautiful. Well, welcome to Tennessee, where it's cold right now.

>> It's a nice change of pace. >> Yeah, I guess. Good to have you. And here to do a debtfree scream. How much you paid off? >> $104,500.

>> Good for you. I love it. And how long did that take you, sir? >> It took me four years and four months.

>> Love it, man. Your range of income during that time? So, I started around $30,000 and ramped it up to 70,000.

>> Wow. What do you do for a living?

>> I'm an accountant for a local government. >> Okay. Very cool. And what kind of debt was the 105? >> MY HOUSE. >> WHOA. LOOKING AT A WEIRDO.

>> That's a low mortgage. Good for you.

That's two of them in a row we've had like that. >> Yeah. >> I love it. What's this house worth?

>> It's It's I would probably say about 225,000 right now. >> Good for you. It's paid for in your How old are you? >> 30. And you have a paid for house.

>> Yeah, >> but millennials can't afford to buy a house. George, look at this guy. He didn't just buy a house. He owns the house. Shut up. Way to go, Christopher.

I love it. All right, tell me the story.

Four years, four months ago, what made you decide, I'm 26. By the time I'm 30, I'm going to have my house paid off. >> So, I started working and part of it was

the smart dollar. They offered $20 off

every week for my insurance if I went

through it and so I did it. Um, >> so your your your governmental agency brought bought Smart Dollar in.

>> Yeah. >> Very cool.

>> What's the agency? What is it? >> Uh, Pima County government. >> Oh yeah. Well, thank you. Puma County government. I love it. For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, Smart Dollar is our class on how to

handle money. It's like Financial Peace University, but it's taught in as an HR benefit in corporate America. and sometimes in county government. Look at that. So, they bought it for all the employees and said, "If you go through it, we'll give you $20 off your insurance >> every week." Yeah. >> Boom. >> Every week. That's quite >> 80 bucks a month right there.

>> Or every Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Every paycheck. So, >> Okay. Wow. Oh, okay. So, two paychecks a month. Okay. >> So, did a bunch of people do this?

>> I don't know. >> You guys don't talk. It's not like a You know, my all my co-workers, >> you know, I encouraged my co-workers to do it. I was like, you know, it it's 20 bucks. Go for it, you.

>> Yeah. Well, you're the poster child. You have no mortgage. They must be looking at you like, who is this guy?

>> Well, I mean, an employer that furnishes this and then the result is their their team members pay off their home at 30 years old. I mean, that's called an HR benefit. That's pretty cool. So, I'm I'm proud of our Smart Dollar team and I'm proud of Puma County and I'm proud of you. Everybody gets a proud of You're Man, this is pretty awesomeness. Very cool. How's it feel to be 30 years old to have a freaking pay for house?

>> It feels great. Like when I first started, I was like, "Oh, it's going to be 40." And then it's going to be 35.

And then I made it my goal to pay it off by the age of 30. And I I did it and I'm

I am so happy. I It's gone. I Every

month at the start of the month, nothing's coming out.

>> That's so weird. You don't have any bills, >> electric, you know. >> I mean, you just eat, buy a little electricity, a little food, and life is good. It it's it's so nice.

>> You are seriously a lowmaintenance dude now. That's amazing. I'm so That's so cool, man. I take it you're single.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Very cool. And extremely eligible at this point, ladies. I'm just saying.

>> Wow. Pretty stinking cool. All right.

Now, you've been at this >> and you're making 30 to $70,000 a year

during this during this journey.

>> So, I started working at the library and of course at the library you can get free books. So I was like, "Hey, you know, as part of the the course to supplement, I'm going to go check out those books free, read them." And it

kind of just got me started and used the proximity principle like the job that I have now. I I sort of just used that and

got got the job that I have now. And it's been wonderful because I love the job. And it's so much easier paying off debt when you go to a job that you absolutely love. >> Mhm. Mhm. It does. That's that's that's very true. >> But the bottom line is, I mean, you were not making $400,000 a year. No. You're making 30 to 70 and you still go and pay off your home by the time you're 30.

What do you think the secret to that is?

>> The the secret is just to have a goal and know what you know what's in store for you. like listening to the other debtree screams like people are like you

can't buy a house when you're 30. Like people think that it's unaffordable, but it it really is not. You have to have a goal in mind. You have to know what you want to do instead of door dashing or you know going to all these different Taylor Swift concerts or whatever.

>> So, >> and you bought a very reasonable house.

Most people go >> key to being debtree by the time you're 30. Avoid Taylor Swift concerts. I'm >> not the worst. wealth building hack I've heard. >> I think that's one I can abide by. I'll go with that one. >> You invest that ticket price in a good growth stock mutual fund. >> Seriously. And you you'll be a millionaire. >> Wow. >> Shortly. Yeah. Wow, man. So, the house

you said is worth two and a quarter >> approximately. Yeah. >> Okay. Tucson is a nice place. I've been there a couple times. Uh does that buy a pretty good house in Tucson?

>> Um it's it's a two-bedroom, two

bathroom. It's a condominium.

>> A condo. Okay. >> Yeah. So, >> all right. And how long have you owned it? >> I about four and a half years.

>> Okay. So, you bought it and then immediately started on this. >> Yeah. A little bit after. >> So, how much has it gone up in value in that five years?

>> 50 plus.

>> It's doubled. >> $50,000. >> Oh, no. No. It's gone up 25% in that period of time. >> Yeah. Roughly. >> So, great investment then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's very cool. Good. Good for you, man. Who was encouraging you along the way? >> You know, I I I do have a co-orker who also has a paid for house. um he's in his probably early early 40s and um also

my dad he paid off his house early and I you know I grew up listening to this show kind of on the radio maybe not all the time but you know it kind of got the gears turning and and when it came time it's like you know why not you know >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What do you have to lose? >> Did you bring your dad with you?

>> Yeah. He's he's a little camera shy.

>> Okay, that's fine. He doesn't have to jump in, but but uh he ought to be here and be proud of you. That's good. I'm glad he's here cheering for you. That's neat to have your dad do that. Very good. Proud of you, man. Good work. Good

work. Good work. All right. So, let's just reiterate. It's really important for you employers out there to not miss this. I don't know. We've got major companies like U-Haul and Costco and others that have got all their employees going through Smart Dollar, but we also got a lot of police departments. And

this is a county. I didn't even know this county was doing this, but we've got all kinds of different organizations that are taking and paying for their employees to go through these courses and uh and it's very easy to implement.

We've got it really dialed in. It's a quality product. I'm proud of the product and obviously I'm proud of the ROI. >> The results are standing in front of us.

I mean, hello. That's awesome. And so, if you're an employer and you could have an employee end up like Christopher standing here, that'd be something to do. Smart dollar it's called. You can check it out at Ramsey Solutions and our team will get in touch with you and help you if you're an employer. So there's my advertisement, but just the same Christopher, you're the walking billboard buddy. So good stuff, man.

Good stuff. So what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate the fact that you don't have any freaking debt? >> Well, first of all, I've came here, but um I have an old car. It's an 03. I've

been driving it since high school. So >> Oh, you need a car. Your car is a piece of crap. What's the next car? Do you have it in mind? >> What are you What are you going to buy?

>> I It's still up in the air.

>> Okay. >> I need to figure out what's in my budget and >> Yeah. Well, you don't have a house payment, so you can stack the cash, right? >> Yes. It >> It's It's stacking so much faster now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You'll be able to buy a car any minute now. Good for you. Well, that's fun. Yeah. Get you a good car. That's a good idea. I like that. You've earned it and uh you've been conservative and you've taken your time and man, that's imp impressive. Very good job. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Christopher from Tucson, Arizona. $105,000

paid off. That would be his house and everything in 4 years and 4 months.

Making 30,000 to 70,000 a year. And he's

100% debtree. House and everything at 30 years old. Shut up you whiners. This guy dropped dropped a mic on you people out there. Well done, Christopher. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

>> Yeah.

Boom, >> man. >> Boom. >> This is this entire show.

>> 30y old mortgages. 30-y old people with

their mortgages paid off on the air on this show today. >> Reason if is we had the answer to the affordability crisis in America. Oh, we

solved it.

Our

scripture of the day is Psalm 27:4. One thing I ask of the Lord, this is what I

seek, that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life. to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to seek him in his temple.

George Carlin said, "Some people see things that are and ask why. Some people dream of things that never were and ask why not. Some people have to go to work and don't have time for all that."

>> That's good. I was like, "This has got to be taken a turn somewhere." >> Come on, George. We know George Carlin's going to turn somewhere there. All right.

Hey, buying or selling a home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what is really happening in the housing market. We'll help you with that. It's moving, by the way.

You don't want to miss this. It's kind of quiet, but there's this little revolution of brewing. And we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices held steady around 424,000 right now.

in October, about one in five homes saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter. Uh Christmas time is a great time to buy a house by the way. Not a lot of buyers out there bumping around. Mortgage rates uh dipped down to four 5 1/2 now. So you can learn

all about this by going to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes.

We'll help you with your real estate decision making. Yep. Walk you through the whole thing. Travis is with us in San Jose. Hi Travis. How are you?

>> I'm doing good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up? So, I

was just calling. So, I travel for work and um you know, when I first started, I had a little bit of debt. That's why I started traveling for work and my truck broke. I had to get a new one with a bad credit already.

And so, anyways, I paid off the I had 20 grand in credit card debt, paid that off, but now it's I had the high interest truck with high mileage.

>> What do you What do you owe on it?

>> I owe 25. So >> what do you make?

>> Uh 1,800 a week take home.

>> Okay. How quick can you pay the truck off?

Uh, realistically, because I got school coming up, so probably like March, March or April, it' be paid off.

>> So, you can pay it off in like six months. >> Yeah, >> I would pay it off.

>> Yeah. The thing is is that the head gasket's blown and the transmission like

flipped and it's kind of like here's the other thing is I live in it. I travel for work so I live in the truck and so I kind of always need it. So it's like a predicament of right and if it breaks then I lose more equity on trading it in or >> you you don't have equity because whatever you drive you're destroying its value. >> Yeah. You've expedited the depreciation.

So you're way underwater. >> Yeah. You're you're >> you're going to you really have whatever you drive is a you're destroying it and that's a cost of doing business. Mhm.

>> So, you want to destroy the least expensive thing that will get the job done. Now, get the job done means you live in it. It's got to have some comfort. And get the job done means to be reliable. But other than that, you don't need a truck. I mean, you don't need to spend money on it. All you need is reliable and comfortable. That's it.

You don't need to be impressive. If you if you buy $100,000 truck, you're going to destroy it. If you buy a $30,000 truck, you're going to destroy it. If you buy a $20,000 truck, you're going to destroy it.

Yeah. >> So, why not destroy the cheapest thing possible as a part of doing business?

Agreed.

>> No, that makes sense. Yeah.

>> So, fix the head gasket and the transmission drive this thing. >> I think Travis just wants a new truck.

Can we admit that? >> Okay. Don't get me wrong. I do. It's But the interest rate 16. That's >> You're going to pay it off in six months. It's an irrelevant interest rate. >> If you were hanging on to it for a decade, you'd have a point. But I think you're just jonesing for a nicer, newer truck. And the real solution here is to pay it off. Cuz right now, here's the thing. You're probably underwater by eight or 10 grand, right?

>> Well, I sold 25 on it.

>> You owe 25. But what's it worth? 15 17.

Well, it has 430,000 on it. That's

That's the part that 430,000 miles on

it. >> So, it's worth a lot.

>> Yeah. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? You're so far underwater that if you sold it, you'd have to cover the difference. So, you're better off putting a new transmission in it and eating that eight grand versus spending 15 to get out of the difference you're underwater. >> Yeah. And let's get this thing paid off.

Get it paid off. And then I want you to save up and pay cash for whatever you move into.

>> Well, that was the whole point. Do Okay.

So >> pay fix this one and drive it and get it

paid off and then save up and pay cash for whatever you move up to and move up to the minimal truck that will has reasonable comfort and reasonable reliability because whatever you drive you are destroying its value. You have driven this thing into the dirt and you're going have to drive it all the way into the dirt now because you trapped yourself. You got screwed cuz you got impulsive and bought a truck at 16% and they screwed you. So, next time, walk in with a check with the actual amount you have saved up and no more, cuz that dealership will talk you into a nicer truck.

that you're going to destroy. Don't do it. So, yeah, I'd clean this mess up and then I'd save up and move up from there.

And that probably means you're almost a year from buying a better truck. And because you got to get this one paid off and then you got to save up for the next one. >> You got a great income. It'll happen faster than you think. >> Yeah, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. You got to break the cycle of this cuz otherwise it's going to break you. Kimberly's in Charlotte.

Hey Kimberly, how are you?

>> Good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, um about 6 years ago, I got

divorced. In that divorce, we had one daughter and um I have her full-time. Um

her biological father is not in the picture. he's not a safe person to be around. And we get about $150

um for child support a month. Um it does

really not anything for us. And so since she was born and I started getting those child support payments cuz I had to leave when I was pregnant,

um I've been putting that money into a

savings account. And at first I put

enough to have like a money market account because at the time that was the highest interest rate and then I moved it into a CD. So currently I'm saving

that money for when she goes to college or when after how much is in the account college? >> About 13,000.

>> Okay. What I would do is jump online at ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvester pro >> and open up a 529 and a good mutual fund. Move the 13 into there and then add to it periodically when you have some more money come in and that'll give you a much better rate of return and it grows tax-free.

>> Okay. >> How old is she? >> Is that one of the She's six. It's a mutual fund and a 529 plan. 529 means it grows taxfree and it

has to be used for college or education of some kind. And so, um, >> so >> go ahead. >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> No, that's it. I mean, >> um, so with the 529 plan, I've heard

that they have to use it for college or it gets rolled over into like a

retirement account. >> I would not do that. you can do that, but instead they need to use it for college, which is what you just said.

You were saving it for her college.

>> And it's a wide variety of expenses connected to education. And so >> do trade school, she could do code school, she could do a lot of different things. It's school and she's going to need some kind of school.

>> Okay. It's just based off of rust rust

estimates. Um, I was imagining she would end up with like 36,000 in >> She should have more. >> No, I'm I'm I just crunched the numbers for you. At this rate, from 6 to 18, you invest it wisely into those mutual funds we talked about. Even with just your 150 a month, you'd have like 90,000 plus.

And that's if you didn't add any more, >> but that's because you're going to be earning more than you're earning now.

>> That's an 11% return instead of a savings account making three or three and a half. >> That's the difference with compound growth over those 12 years. >> Yeah. Click uh just click again at ramseysolutions.com and click on SmartVest Pro. And by the way, Kimberly, there's no moral or ethical reason that you have to put the child support aside.

You're allowed to use it to support the child if you need to. But if you want to keep investing it, that's the way you can do it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat. Heat. N.

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## 33. Discipline Matters Most in the Hard Times | August 29, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:10:20 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Ramsey Network hit Smart Money Happy Arm, and my daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Stella is in Arizona. Hi Stella.

>> Um, hello.

>> How can we help today?

Um well um a big question that I have

what recommendations do you have to

increase your income uh while being a

homeschool parent?

>> How do you increase your income while being a homeschool parent?

>> Oh, let me elaborate a little bit. Um

well um my situation with my husband is

not that good and I plan to eventually

file for divorce once um once this homeschool year finishes.

So um for now um since I'm a full-time

homes school parent I don't have any uh

work right now.

So, I was wondering what kind of kids.

>> So, um you're talking about in May,

that's the end of the homeschool year.

>> Yes, correct. >> And um how many children do you have?

Huh? >> I have two children.

>> What age? What a >> They're very young. Uh four and one.

>> What are you homeschooling a four-year-old?

>> Uh I'm sorry.

How is a four-year-old in homeschool?

>> Uh well, uh prek, so foundation for uh

reading, uh language arts and math.

But yeah, still full-time and especially when I since I have my um my younger

son, he's one, so he still definitely depends on me. He's very attached to me as he should be. >> Okay. So, if you file divorce, you understand that you're going to be working full-time.

>> Oh, yes, I understand. >> And the kids are not you're not going to be homeschooling ever again.

>> Yes. I >> Who's going to take care of the kids? Who's going to take care of the children?

>> Well, um I I was already thinking on uh

uh yeah, enrolling them on on daycare,

also a local preschool. How long has it

been since you've been in the workplace?

>> Well, it has been uh about a year.

>> Okay. What were you doing? What were you doing before?

>> Oh, wow. Well, um I was working for a

gas company.

>> For what company? >> Um uh for a gas company.

>> A gas company. What were you making, Stella, at that position?

Oh, at that position, um, I was making

around, um, I was making around 54,000 a year.

However, um, well, I recently got an offer letter that I could be making probably $40 an hour uh, due to the

experience that I have. So hopefully at least. >> Are you in like any immediate like c can you stay in this marriage till May?

Oh yeah, definitely. >> Okay. So, there's not like a >> husband provides. Yes. Now, >> what what's wrong with your marriage, huh?

>> Well, um

uh I think um during a marriage, you

should be able to negotiate the terms of

the initial plans. For instance, my husband and I agreed that we will be homeschooling our children at the very beginning of our marriage. Um and everything was going fine since I was working also from home. Um my kids were

little so that was manageable.

Um but uh for instance it came to a

point that I was able to change jobs uh

working outside of the house and uh my

husband didn't really like that. Um and

also it was a little hard for me to be away from my daughter. Um,

so >> that does not sound like the reason to end a marriage.

>> Uh, well also we

uh well for instance I I wanted to work and now that my son is one year old

>> however uh my husband >> so there's a there's a values difference. So have you guys done counseling? Have you guys wor have you sought a professional?

>> Uh well I have suggested that of course

to my husband since uh we have been

gotten into an argument uh about

finances and uh our homeschooling but uh

yeah for instance I I have suggested that and my husband does not does not think it's a >> Have you have you seen someone Stella

>> I'm sorry. Have you seen someone professionally yourself? >> Uh we hooked on individually. Uh >> okay. >> It was two years ago and Okay.

>> but honestly we gave up.

>> Okay. Well,

everything in my mind I would I would exhaust every level of energy and effort and time and money to make this marriage

work. and the reasons that you're giving

me and I'm sure there are symptoms of bigger things going on underneath, you know, from from a depth level perspective with your marriage. Um, but I I would I would push you to to go back before you make this decision.

I would implore you to to go and sit down and be in therapy for for months and see what else can change in your

marriage that this doesn't have to be the outcome.

And if you still get to this re if you still get to this place that you are going to, you know, that that this is the route and you're going to file for a divorce, then um I mean then I would

start working. I wouldn't be homeschooling right now. I would I would be I would be back in the workforce and not let the first time to be in the workforce is in the middle of a divorce.

But again, I would want that to be >> I would want you guys to do a lot of work >> since especially the school year. Um,

selling it's a four-year-old. Okay. Yeah. That I would not I would >> I I would not put that pressure on yourself. >> I mean, even kindergarten, right? Like if you got to repeat kinderg

Yeah, that's light lifting. Some kids don't even do preschool and go straight to kindergarten. So, I would not hedge

so much weight on this Europe for quote unquote homeschool for your kids. I would be waiting my marriage, the work

around that andor getting back into the workforce >> or both. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Or both. Exactly. >> And say, you know, okay, I'm I'm announcing the kids are going into daycare and I'm taking this new job and I'm going to see a marriage counselor.

>> Will you come with me?

>> Cuz if you don't if you don't, we're probably going to end this. But I'm going to go work on it and I want to work on it together. And if you want to give it a try, this is how it's going to go. and I'm going to make an announcement da this is what's happening and it's not a question.

It's not a not a asking permission. >> It sounds like he wants you to be doing this >> stating that's what I'm going to do. You take that offer letter, $40 an hour, you go to work but to get in daycare. Let's do it.

And cuz that's what's coming anyway. Might as well just decide and do it and uh and then make the make the moves. But I'm with Rachel.

I'm having trouble connecting with you. um enough that I can

understand why this is going on. So, I I think you do need to follow Rachel's suggestion.

[Music]

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[Music]

Bob is in New Hampshire. Hey Bob, how are you? >> I'm doing okay, I guess. Dave, >> cool. How can we help?

Well, um we've for quite a while now

we've had uh financial problems with bills. Uh we owe a lot of um in uh debt

and u one of the problems is uh my wife

has a habit of spending constantly and

uh she pretty much goes through all of the um income that we have in a month.

uh we've had discussions over it and everything and you know it it it doesn't set in but it is a little bit I mean

she's a little she's a little better but she just has this habit of when she walks in the store she's got to buy

>> okay how can we help >> well my question is um as to what

direction should I be using to

um I guess get her to stop completely from uh um wasting the money and then uh

being able to catch up on things.

>> I mean Bob, when you say that I mean you're saying that she's spending the whole paycheck. So would you >> I mean would you think it it's a level of addiction? Would you say would you go that far? >> Oh yes. Yes.

>> And has she gotten help for it?

>> Um >> besides you just telling her not to.

Okay. Why not? >> Yeah. Yeah. We've had numerous discussions on it >> because you're not going to change her.

She has to do the work to understand what is happening for her because it's a real thing. I mean, we see that more often than I mean, it's becoming more and more common, I feel like.

>> Um, so why why has she not taken steps

to find healing in this?

Um well the the strange thing is she knows

that um she's you know the the the problem to

uh our problem and um you know she's

always feeling sorry for it but uh you

know when when the income comes in she goes out and she spends and she doesn't look at what she's spending. In other words she'll go out groceries. Pardon

me. >> How old are you two?

>> Uh, she's 78 and I'm going to be 73 in

the next couple of weeks. >> But why don't you just take her like she can't have access to the money?

>> Like if it's an addiction like this, this is what we would tell couples is to say the one that is struggling does not get access to money because she has a spending addiction. and you would say,

"All right, we're going to have X amount for groceries, and when you go to the grocery store, this is, you know, if that's if that's what she does, then here's the amount you have." Because she doesn't get access to the checking account. >> Yeah. And and and the income, what is your income at monthly?

>> Um, believe it or not, it's it's over 7,000. >> Okay. I believe it. And um and how much

debt have you guys run up? Well, the house still has 167,000 I mean uh

267,000.

We probably have about $40,000 in debt

>> on what?

>> Well, we have uh one vehicle

um you know, we have numerous credit cards. >> So, what do you owe on your car?

>> Um I believe it's about 25,000.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on the credit cards?

credit cards uh total about um $10,000.

>> Okay. And um that's 35. And what's the

other five?

>> Uh the other five would probably be Well, actually, we just had a roof put on a house, so >> that's five grand.

>> Yeah. >> Really? You had a roof put on your house for $5,000?

>> Well, I mean, I paid some of it, so there's some money left over on it.

>> Okay. Like a lot more. Okay.

So, um, >> so you guys can live on $7,000 if you have your if you're in agreement and in alignment and you stick to a budget and you could reduce the debt. Agreed.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Is there you own two cars?

>> The other one's paid for. >> One vehicle. >> I'm sorry. >> One vehicle. >> The only do the only car you have is $25,000 in debt, >> right? >> Okay. All right. Um, but I I think you

could probably with that kind of an income clear the $40,000 in debt if we were reasonably spending

on $7,000. Agreed.

>> That's what your problem is. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> And so I you know the way it's going to sound at my house and you can do what you want to do, but you called us is hun

I think we have a problem and it's you.

You're out of control and you can't seem to control it and it's really sad.

Consequently, we don't have any money and we're in debt and we have plenty of income. And so, here's what's going to

happen. We're going to try this first.

We're going to agree on a budget this month. You and I both have a vote. We're

going to spend $7,000 on the Every Dollar app and we're going to have a plan and we're going to stick to that plan and you're not going to go into a store and go out of control again. If you do next month, you will have zero

access to the money. I will shut everything down and put it in my name to protect me and our family from you.

>> Right? >> That's how it's going to sound. So, we're going to try this together like two grown-ups that can function. And so, if you're being immature, you can merely adjust the immaturity.

If you are an addict, we're going to discover that in one more month. And uh we're going to treat you >> Yeah. like an addict. At that point, I don't know.

I can't diagnose if someone has an OCD. >> Well, there's a level of medicating that's for sure going on. >> Well, at a minimum, there's immaturity and princess syndrome or something, right? But, uh, but at a minimum, at a maximum, 2% of the public has been diagnosed literally with a spending addiction, a shopping addiction, >> and 2%.

you know it's a psychological label and done by professionals and we deal with them but most of the time when we deal with it we're just dealing with somebody who's being selfish, immature and a princess or I deserve it and you don't

>> kind of thing and you so I don't know which one she is but I I would if it was my wife I'm going to have a real clear conversation that says for one more month we're going to try this and if we fail this experiment experiment that you and I cannot act like two adults at 78 freaking years old. We can't act like grown-ups and live within our means.

Then I'm going to shut down your access to everything. >> And it sounds like that's what's going to happen. I think it is. Yeah. 100%.

And Bob, for her sake, too, >> encouraging her. We just said this in the last call, but for real, she needs to go get help for it because as she's not a whole person like there there is a level there that is eroding her quality

of life, who she is as a person and who she's going to be as a wife. I'm like, you're getting someone who's not functioning and none of us are fully, but but there is a a very obvious issue

there that she's just not addressing headon. And and I don't think you're getting the quality wife that you could have too if she doesn't go through a level of healing to this because that's probably what I mean like yeah it could be immaturity and all of it but at 78 and him having this conversation her knowing intellectually where they are but her compulsion it's still happening.

>> There's stuff happening in there. So I I would for her sake like the financial side is one thing Bob but if that's my spouse I'm like I want her to get healing. I want her to to understand what's going on and to and to find I

don't know peace in this because there's just chaos happening inside of her I would imagine and it's coming out medicating in spending and so you're not getting a great wife either a great partner she's not getting a great self I don't know there's a lot there >> there's a thing mixed up between in the psychology and the spirituality

>> of godliness with contentment is great

gain And if I can't find contentment and so

I'm chasing it >> somewhere else. >> Um that is a spiritual disease and it's also can be >> an addictive compulsion.

>> Um and it can be >> just immaturity immaturity, you know, self-centeredness. And no one ever told me no. >> That's right. >> And including you, Bob. you've never told her no and um you know and her

daddy >> in a in a pretty like >> yeah like >> consequential way. >> We're not doing that. >> Yeah. >> That's not an option. And so um so I

can't tell exactly and I I I'm really

not going to diagnose something as >> severe as a spending addiction in this, but it it could be. So, I'm going to treat it that that way and move down that process. And it it's going to stop one way or the other.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Well, I got to tell you, we have a wonderful product that we do a a low

volume, very expensive print run on. Uh we turn the creatives loose and just let them play in their little sandbox and they do a beautiful job making this product. Lights out. Uh it is the Ramsay gold planner and I

think this is our 10th year maybe of doing this and um it is drop deadad

gorgeous. It's very expensive to produce because it's so pretty and all this stuff is in it and uh but we've got it on sale as the pre-sale for 2026. If you want your Ramsey gold planner, it's only 35.97 and that's good through Labor Day.

So, next week that deal will be gone in other words. And so, if you want one, you need to get in there. What it is is you open up the month and as you open up the month at the beginning of the month's a couple of page, I would call it almost a devotional from Jade or Rachel or John Deloney. And then when

you open the next page, it's the entire month spread out on the two pages. When you open the next page, it's the first week of the month spread out on two pages and then the next week and then the next week and then the next week, then you go the next month. So, if you're old school, my wife still keeps one of these old school handdone calendars all the time. Carries it around with her. If you like that stuff and you, you know, you and you want the inspiration from Rachel, Jade, and John,

and it's really good. Uh, and the stickers there to do the whole thing, the whole bit. There's a whole thing around these gold planners that >> it's not just a calendar. got it own little world around it.

>> So anyway, it's uh better than ever. New monthly content uh from everybody and

again till Labor Day, it's only 35.97 and we will take the price on up because we only do about 10 or 20,000 of these things. So we don't do a huge volume.

It's not like we sell 2 million of them or something. So >> so timesensitive once the new year hits, you're done. So >> if we don't sell them, we got to put them in the dumpster. So yeah, we got to make sure that we sell out. And so ramseyolutions.com/store uh or if you're uh you know listening online, you can click the link in the description. Nick's in California. Hi Nick. How are you?

>> Good. How's it going, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Love it. Uh my wife and I, we went through FPU right after we got married.

We followed your plan ever since.

>> How long you been married? >> In 17 years.

>> Well, good for you. Wow. You a millionaire? >> Yeah. Uh yeah. Well, pretty much. Um, we

Yeah, it's Yeah, really good. >> Uh, so we make we gross about 350 a year. We have over 400,000 saved. Um,

combining, you know, all the Roths and the kid savings and whatnot. >> Good. >> Uh, yeah. So, we've been very disciplined.

Um, and you know, you've you've helped us get there. It's been really really great. But I feel like, okay, we've done this for so long, it's kind of become who we are. and we're saving and we're building wealth and you know we pay off one thing we got debtree we didn't do the call but we ended up buying another farm and then now we got more debt now you know but that that's producing income too and you know now our kids are growing up and they're kind of at a fun age and I don't want to miss out on memories but we're so caught up into just paying down debt and saving and building wealth that we're not you know I want to go buy jet skis and I want to get quads and I want to go do fun things that I did as a kid and make those memories with Um, now, you know, while they still like me.

>> Okay. >> Wait, wait, wait.

>> Uh, I would say real estate's 90% of it.

I mean, we got a tractor. Um, >> Oh, you flunked to FPU.

>> Well, >> oh, I thought you were a star pupil and became a millionaire and then you went and financed a tractor.

Well, that that is actually an interesting >> No, there's nothing interesting at all about it. >> It's it's pitiful.

>> Hey, Nick. But you got Hey, but he's got $400,000 in savings. I know.

>> That's in his That's in his Roth IAS. He can't pay the tractor off with that.

What do you owe on your tractor?

>> Do you have other Do you have liquid savings, Nick? >> What do you owe on your tractor, Nick?

>> I actually got it for free. I'll just say that. Uh, I thought you said you had a debt on it.

>> I I do. It's 25,000, but it was 0%. So,

I took the money I got back from buying it from a government grant uh and put it on debt. Then I wrote the tractor off and saved myself 16,000 in taxes. So, I

was just like, "Oh, with the government grant and the tax refund, it actually paid for the whole tractor. I put it on the line of credit." >> But now Nick can't buy jet skis. Oh my gosh.

Anyway, so it's 25,000. It'll be paid off in 7 months. >> Okay. Is that your only debt other than the land?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And do you have your emergency fund in place?

>> Yep. >> How much is in it?

>> 31,000. >> Okay. Pay the tractor off today, honey.

>> Today? Okay. >> Today. Rebuild your emergency fund.

>> Okay. Remember, we're going back to FPU.

I'm taking you back to class. This is the remedial version. And uh >> oh boy, it's been a while.

>> We're doing the baby steps again here.

Okay, we got to clear the tractor. Got to rebuild the emergency fund. Then when you're to answer your overall question, once you clean up this little mess you made that you rationalized out of your butt. Um, now once you do all that, once

you clean up the mess, then what I'm going to do, if I'm in your shoes, you're in baby steps four, five, and six, putting 15% away for retirement.

You're putting money for kids college, and you're reducing the real estate debt. When you're in one through three

getting out of debt other than real estate and you are and building your emergency fund, you are intense and not allowed to do anything except get out of debt and build the emergency fund. When you're in four, five, and six, you are in in the phase of intentional, not

intense. And that is the phase that when a guy makes 350 grand, he should be able to put 15% aside should be able to uh in

in his 401ks and Roth IAS growing those and still have plenty of margin to buy a quad >> and a jet ski.

>> I mean, >> what's a quad? >> Four-wheeler. >> Oh. >> And so, um, like those like, you know,

anyway, um, >> like a side by side. >> Yeah. Fancy for >> And so, uh, yeah. So, you know, uh I just bought several of those for the farm for the grandkids.

>> That was that was fun cuz I wanted to, but I didn't Yeah. >> finance it at zero. I mean, I just bought it. Okay. But it and it was a small percentage of our world. And you can do that, too. So, you you make enough money to do some of the enjoyment things you're talking about in cash only.

No rationalization, no government kickbacks, no 0%. we're just going to pay for it like your grandmother did and that's the only way we're going to do it. And then you can enjoy those things because they're don't have all this associated intellectual guilt that goes with the stupid way I did the thing.

Okay? And but you move from intense to intentional and I think you can systematically inside your budget find the money to enjoy life while reducing

your mortgages somewhat and while putting 15% away. can do that in California making 350,000, but you've got to >> still enjoy your life. >> Yeah. You got to um go go back to the basics, blocking and tackling that you learned in the class 17 years ago that actually got you where you are and then you fell off the wagon and fell off the tractor and um

>> Oh, that's so fun.

>> But yeah, that that's it. So, um, you

know, what this does illustrate though, folks, is, um, this is a guy makes a lot of money. He's obviously a bright guy.

You know, dumb people generally don't make 350,000 a year. And, um, the the

message of debt, 0% debt, the message of debt is

necessary, debt is wise, debt is sophisticated. if you're going to get a, you know, a a tax credit from the government. And so this whole thing was sophisticated.

That message is so prevalent

that if you let your guard down, you'll

buy a tractor >> or get one for free and then go through the hoops to get back. >> Really free. He paid for the tractor,

but he got a tax credit >> credit with it >> and that he didn't use to pay off the debt. >> Right. Right. >> So he still has the debt. So But he talked himself into it. >> Yes. >> By the way, if you paid cash for the tractor, >> you would have also gotten the tax credit.

>> There's not a debt requirement to get the tax credit. So, but it made you rationalize and justify. So, what happened is is you got financial advice from the tractor salesman.

That's what happened. That's kind of a bad place to get it. Just just make note.

Heat. Heat. N. [Music]

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Sarah's in Phoenix. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, um, me and my husband started a business back in 2020, and addition to the debt I have now, we racked up about 34,000 in credit card debt to sustain.

The last couple of years, the business has been doing great and is steady, and I was able to pay that down just my credit card debt to 19,000. But out of the blue, I inherited $108,000.

And I'm just like, what do I do with this with all of my debt? And >> wow, who died? >> I just need advice. Um, nobody died at my um, it was just like a like a early

inheritance while they were still alive.

>> Oh, they Who advance who advanced you the money?

>> Um, uh, my uncle.

>> Okay. Wow. Got the rich uncle.

>> Very nice. >> I wondered where he was.

>> Okay. Um, >> the uncle everyone wants.

So, your business went through hell in 2020 and you subsidi you subsidized it with credit cards up to $34,000.

>> Yeah. >> And then you told me it's doing really well, but it only has paid down a few thousand. >> What is doing really well mean? How much profit are you making?

>> Um, about $7,000 a month.

>> Well, why have you only paid down a few thousand dollar then?

Are you profiting 7,000 a month or you're grossing$7,000 a month?

>> I'm well I'm grossing but also I pay I was

paying for just you know living expenses and food and stuff but >> No, I'm talking about your business.

>> It was my credit cards were 34,000. So they're >> I know. And they're down to 17. And in five whole years, you paid it off about $3,000 a year, which pretty much sucks

if your business is making $7,000 a month. >> Hardcore, really, really hardcore in like the last year. And we kind of did things a little bit backwards where we saved for a home

um down payment and all that. >> Okay, let me go back. Is your business making a profit or a gross revenue of 7,000? Which is

it? And I and and then yes, it's making a pro >> it's making a profit of7,000 and then I

also work um full-time at a job and I

make about $7,000. >> Okay. So you're bringing home Okay. Okay. >> So you have a $14,000 a month income and you're married.

>> Yes. >> And he makes what?

>> Um well he's he was with the business with me so that's included of one of the $7,000 a month. >> Okay. So, your total household income is $14,000 a month.

>> Yes. >> You you I'm still not positive you know what profit means.

This is a real profit after all business

business income minus business expenses

equals profit. Taxable income is $7,000

a month. Is that what you're telling me?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. And and are you putting any of that money back into the business or are you guys just bringing home exactly what you profit?

>> We're just not budgeters.

>> I don't know. We like spend like a couple thousand a month going out to eat and stuff like that. >> But here, grasp with me here. Here, there's a reason I'm asking all this regarding your inheritance, okay?

Because I don't want this 104,000 to

enable you to continue stupid butt behaviors that are going to destroy you.

I don't either. >> Okay. I And that's where I'm trying to get to because I want to I want to love you well here. I want to help you. And so >> yeah. And what we found, Sarah, is that money magnifies what you're already doing. So you're like, we're not great budgeters. We spend a couple of thousand just eating out like all that. And that's just >> and this allows you to continue in that misbehavior >> in a bigger way, which we don't want.

Right. And so >> I don't want to do now. >> That's right. That's right. Okay. I'm so glad. And how's your husband? Is he on board with this of changing completely how you guys have been doing money?

He He lets me do everything. He just

says, "You handle it. I trust you." >> Okay. Well, that's not good. That's got to end, too. That's got to end, too. >> Apparently, that's not working. >> Okay. >> Cuz y'all suck at this.

>> Yeah. >> So, I mean, we've got to adult up here cuz we're pissing away $14,000 a month.

So, what I'm going to do in your shoes is I'm going to take the 104,000, act like I don't own it, and put it in a high yield savings account. And then I'm going to go home and the two of us are going to sit down on $14,000 a month and in three months we're going to pay off this credit card.

>> Okay. >> $6,000 a month on the credit card till it's gone. And you're going to not go out to eat at all until you do that.

>> Yeah. That money will be going straight to the credit card. >> And you're not going and you're going to really learn what real profit is on the business. Are you keeping a separate set of books on the business? No.

>> Yes, >> you are. Have you kept your taxes paid?

>> Um, I owe like 10,000 this year.

>> Have you been doing quarterly estimates?

Do you know what that is? >> No.

>> I I know what it is, but we doing it.

>> Okay. But $7,000 a month, $70,000,

$84,000 a year.

>> And so taxes on that are not $10,000.

>> Taxes on that are $25,000.

Have you filed tax returns?

>> Uh, yes. My numbers are probably just

wrong. Sorry.

>> I think that's probably the accurate statement.

The cuz I I just there's I'm fishing around in some in murky water here. I can't tell what's going on. Okay. So, no, you do not need to use the hundred,000. The $100,000 gift is a

double gift. one, it's 100,000. The

second thing is it's going to make you all wake up and behave. If you don't, a

100,000 won't save you. 2 million won't save you. And so, number one, the

business ought to be in have a separate set of books. >> You and your husband tonight, y'all y'all have need a long week ahead

figuring all of this out. >> So, in in in business, you set a separate checking account and a separate set of books for the business. Only thing goes into that checking account is rent is income from the business. Only thing comes out of that checking account expenses from the business. What's left by definition is called profit. Only then can you take it home. When you take it home, you should set aside 25% of whatever you take home in yet another savings account for your quarterly estimates that are supposed to be filed.

If you are not filing them after 5 years, you are being penalized every single day.

for not filing your quarterlys. You're violating every IRS regulation. It's costing you out the butt.

>> Yeah. They need to sit down with an accountant probably. Yeah.

>> And start Yeah. and get the dad gum business running like a business. You You're You've under the illusion you can out earn your disorganization and chaos.

And you can't. I tried it. It doesn't work. I It caught up, hit me in the back of the head, knocked the hair off my head. Don't do this, okay? It's not fun.

You're going to bring pain to your life.

It's not cute and it's not okay. You're not a teenager. So, you guys need to sit down, run the business like grown-ups.

Then, when you bring money home after you've set aside a fourth for your taxes and filed your quarterly estimates properly, then and we can talk about how much is really coming into the house >> and what to do with it >> and and immediately need to clean up this debt because if you're making $10,000 a month, it's ridiculous that you that you have not reduced the debt any further than you have. So no more no more eating out. No well and no more you just take care of it because Sarah you've been on an island.

>> Survival survivor. We don't want that.

We want bougie Sarah. We don't want >> kick you off the island. >> But no but sitting down and you guys together >> do a budget and if you hold in line Sarah Kelly is gonna pick up. We're gonna give you total money makeover.

we're going to give you every dollar and entree leadership. Throw that book into um or and so but but to sit down and and to plan out your income that you guys have that has hit your account as a household and say here's exactly where our money is going. Rent or the I think you have a mortgage. You said you got a house.

So mortgage, lights, electricity, subscription. I mean you list out everything you guys spend money on. And then you're going to take a you're going to sit there and start deleting categories because you're not going out to eat.

You're cutting your lifestyle to nothing until this credit card debt is paid off.

And I mean, honestly, I don't know what >> start running this like you work for someone and you're going to get fired if you continue to suck at your job.

>> Because the problem is is if you take some of this 108,000 inheritance and just pay off the credit card debt, nothing has changed in you guys. So, I would push you not to use the inheritance to pay off the credit card debt. I would force you guys to do it.

You need to learn and actually participate and have the action towards this change. You have to feel it and go through it in your life. >> And if the numbers are anywhere near close, you're going to do it in about 3 months once you get your head screwed on. >> Yeah. You all have to sit down together, Sarah, >> tonight. And he has to start carrying the emotional weight of this with you together. This is the only way you win.

There's really not another option. This is it.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number is8825-55225.

Michelle's in Indiana. Hi, Michelle. How are you? >> I'm doing okay, thank you. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I So, recently I found out this past weekend how much we actually have in debt with credit cards and a personal loan. >> Um, recently just started watching your stuff and I we had not been doing finances together. He pays some, I pay some. But after learning a little bit, we joined finances and that's when I discovered all this debt.

>> Wow. I'm so honored. I'm happy for you guys that you're doing this.

>> I'm I'm sorry you found that you're in a hole, but you can get out. This is awesome. How much debt did you find?

>> Um 50,000 in credit cards and 12,000 in the personal loan.

>> Okay. Very. >> So 62,000. Who what was the credit was the credit card debt yours and his and just combined it's 50 or was it all his all yours? >> Um 99.9% his.

>> Okay. Okay. >> But but he used but he used the cards for utilities and groceries for household items. >> Yeah. I gotcha. Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Um he makes uh 101,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> I make 21,000.

>> Okay. So 122. That's good. Very good. No

car debt.

>> Uh, two cars >> debt >> and they're upside down. So, that's not a good situation either. >> Oh, so this isn't your only debt. So, how much do you owe on the cars? >> No. Uh, one car is

uh 45,000.

>> Mhm. >> The other car is 65,000.

>> Whoa.

Okay. >> I know. >> And is there any other debt? Is there any other debt?

Uh, besides mortgage, no.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on your mortgage?

>> 315,000.

>> Okay. All right. >> You have $110,000 in cars.

>> I tell you what I uh can tell you for sure happened mathematically after doing this for 35 years. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Your cars stole your food money.

>> Yeah. >> And your food was put on a credit card.

Your husband has not been irresponsible except for the time that he went to the car lot.

>> Yeah. Had to have to let your car.

>> Yeah. So you you guys are broke. Your car broke >> and he was trying to prop it up because there's not enough money to pay for these stupid cars and live. And he

propped it up with credit cards. That's 100% what happened here. Your husband's not a bad guy. He was just trying to cover and make things happen.

Yes. And he wasn't trying to hide it from me. He didn't want me to worry. He said he was trying to work on it. >> Yeah. And you were separate in it, right? He was just taking care of We're not blaming him. I'm just saying that this credit card debt is not due to irresponsible spending.

It is due to the irresponsible purchase of vehicles that you can't afford.

>> I agree with you. I just don't know what steps to take. >> Okay. So on the $65,000 car, who's driving that one?

>> He is. >> Okay. So it's a truck.

>> No, it's a electric car.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Oh crap. Which one?

>> Honda.

Honda um prologue.

>> Okay.

And you owe 65. Do you have any idea what the actual market value of this log is?

I looked up Kelly's blue book and it said 30,000.

>> Oh gosh man. 30,000 for trade in or

private sale or >> um actually I think it was traded.

>> Okay. >> So it's probably worth 35.

>> Okay. Um which still sucks. So basically what we're saying is Honda electric cars have tanked in value.

They're like jumping off a cliff with no parachute in value. Okay. Wow. I didn't know they sucked that bad. Okay. That's really bad. >> Um. >> Yeah. >> Okay. How about the $45,000 car? Do you know? >> That's a That's Do I know what it's that's worth? >> Yeah. >> 27 27,000 >> and that was trade in. So that's probably 32. Okay.

>> All right. Okay.

>> So >> $30,000 loss. When did you buy the Honda?

Uh

um I'm sorry I'm a little nervous. I can't think straight a second. Um in the

>> He's had it less than a year.

>> Did you have negative equity in another car that you traded on it?

>> I think he did. Okay.

>> I think there was some negative equity >> cuz I'm I mean I know these electric

cars suck on holding their value. It's

just they're pitiful. But I did not think you could lose $30,000 in one year. I think that's probably not right.

>> So it's not they don't they're not that bad. So um I hope either way you're

there. Uh

okay, here's the problem.

If you keep it, it's going to keep tanking and you're going to look up and it's going to be worth 10 grand and you're going to owe 55.

Right. And so, you know, it's almost like >> to save the patient, we're going to have to amputate the leg. You know, >> it's like we got to stop the bleeding here. There too many too many amputations, too much blood in this metaphor. I got mixed metaphors going.

But anyway, yeah. So, we got to uh anyway, you've got to stop the loss in

value by getting rid of the car because it's going to get worse and worse and worse at an increasing rate.

Okay. So, wow. I'm so sorry. Um, do you

guys have any money? I haven't asked that. >> No. >> Okay. It's not a surprise. >> What do you make, Michelle? You make 22,000. What do you do for a living?

>> I was a nurse. I got injured and I'm on

disability now.

>> Okay. >> A permanent disability.

>> Permanent disability.

>> Sorry.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Or is there any >> be out there working it? So >> yeah. >> Yeah, you because man, you can make some bucks as a nurse.

>> That's a very good career. Oh man.

>> All right, so anyway, back to the whole thing. The great news is you now know where you are. >> The great news is you're now working together. And the great news is we have identified the problem and it's called a Honda prologue. And it's caused all of

this. It's all the result of buying a car >> and the $45,000. I mean, like I think all of it. >> Two cars. Two car. >> So, a part of me would just take if you can get a loan from the credit union, take the difference. You each go get $5,000 cars. I'd rather be $55,000 in debt than 110. >> Yep. Yep. >> Um >> I I would if you can get the credit union to loan you enough money to get out of both of these, sell them both, and get two $5,000 cars.

>> That's a huge change in direction. It's going to it's going to otherwise you're going to struggle with this for a decade. >> Mhm. >> And so we got to stop this thing going

off a cliff mathematically because you I mean you can tell from 65 down to 30, right? In a heartbeat, >> right? >> And we don't want to do that another year. >> Yeah. >> I I don't want that for you. I want you to be free. So >> And you guys Yeah. And >> you think you could get a loan at the credit union to cover the deficits on these cars?

Um, I'm not sure now because his score

of the credit's gone down.

>> Yeah. I'm going to go sit down and talk to him. If you've got either one of these loans with the credit union, it's a real reason to talk to them. >> Mhm. >> Cuz this is going to go sideways. It's bad. And then once you get that straightened up, you can address the other stuff pretty quick cuz you make good you make good money and now you're working together. The sun will come out.

But we got to get rid of you guys have two to three years. >> You got to get rid of the law. >> Intense of intense intense.

>> What a plan. Michelle, what a horrible car. And I'm a Honda fan in general, but

that's >> But not an electric fan. >> Not an electric fan.

>> Adds to it.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How many next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> There really is.

>> So we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including of course term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800356-4282.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

John is in North Carolina. Hey John, how are you?

I'm good. Uh, actually, I'm a little uh

a little less than uh than I deserve. A little a little not good. Um, how are you? >> Oh, John. >> John, I'm sorry. >> How can we help today?

>> Uh, well, my uh my wife and I uh we got

ourselves in a little bit of a mess. Uh we're looking at about a million dollars in debt at the moment.

>> On what?

>> Um well, I just closed down my business.

uh in June and um so we we had taken out

some SBA loans um to keep the um to keep

the business afloat and um then we also have our house uh credit cards. Uh we

have IRS uh taxes due um and you know a

couple other things. >> How much is the um how much is the SBA?

Um, right now I think there's about 250,000 left on them. >> How much is on the IRS?

>> Uh, it's 350,000.

>> Okay. And, um,

how much on credit cards?

>> Uh, we actually just entered a consolidation loan. Not we weren't sure if that was the right thing to do or not, but it it dropped our monthly payment significantly. So, right now we're at about 100. I I think the total payoff was about 96.

>> Okay. And um so 67. What's the uh three

the other 300's? Your mortgage?

>> Uh 250,000 on the mortgage. Um we have

8,000 left on a car and then um just um

repaying um uh our accountants and

attorneys.

>> Which amounts to what?

Um 15,000 for an accountant, 88 8,000

for an attorney. Um >> and the attorney was for what?

>> I'm sorry. >> The attorney was for what?

>> Um they actually assisted me through my

IRS. Um they got me an installment plan for $500 a month, which was great until

um two months after the installment agreement went through. Um now um now

they're saying that uh we have to review everything again and that uh we will be at least liable for 175,000 to pay in

the trust fund.

>> I'm sorry. You're liable for 350,000. So how where's 175 come in?

>> I'm not sure. The that's what the officer said when I was on the phone with him. >> An additional 175. Not not an

additional. That's just >> that includes in the 350.

>> Okay. So, you you didn't you didn't hold your 941s back.

>> No, we we never held anything back. Um we we just weren't >> Yeah, they're not going to put that on payments. That's right. I don't I don't disagree with that. Okay. Um so, what is

your home worth?

>> Um about 550.

>> Okay. And what else do you own?

>> Nothing. Um, right before all this happened, um, we had, um, a rental property, we had land, uh, we sold all

those to, um,

uh, we we actually did a flip and we lost everything on top of that. Um, and then everything kind of just trickled down from that. Um, and then we paid off some credit cards back then as well, which was about four years ago. Um,

>> are you now working doing something else?

>> Yes. >> What do you make?

Uh just recently I was making um

260 but now I'm making 140. I I got let

go from one one job because uh um they

just couldn't afford me anymore.

>> So now it's 140. >> Okay. And your >> Does your wife work outside the home, sir? >> Um she makes about 20 grand.

>> How old are you?

>> 33. >> How long you been married? Eight years.

>> Okay. >> Do you guys have kids?

>> Three. >> Three.

>> Okay. Um I remember being right where you are. I was 28 with two.

>> And um and I didn't make it. I ended up bankrupt. Um but I can share with you a

couple things. Okay. Um, one is

uh this stuff will destroy your marriage

>> if you if you don't fight for your marriage. >> And so the two of you have to sit down and say regardless of what happens, we're it. We're doing it together. We're in it to win it. And we have to lock arms and it's you two against everybody else, right?

>> Okay. Um, and she's scared.

She's scared in a way you don't even understand.

And you, if you're normal, um, this has

taken a lot of your confidence and your swagger away.

>> Absolutely. >> It did me. It took it all away.

>> Okay. And uh cuz it just grinds you

under a boot. And so once you say those

things out loud, >> that means you're she gets extra hugs cuz she's terrified and we're going to do this. We're going to make it. We're not going to jail and we're not going to go hungry. I don't know what else bad is going to happen. But those two things we do know. >> Okay. >> Right >> now. Um so you protect your marriage and

you understand that um that business

failure is a part of running a business.

Sometimes it happens and um and it

doesn't define the rest of your life unless you allow it to. Uh but it but it

does suck and it does make you think that you're not worthy and you are worthy. >> You're better. You're a lot better than you feel about you right now. Okay, hear me, brother.

>> You're a lot better than you feel about you. I've been there. I know. And uh out

of the ashes of mine, this whole thing grew. So, there's something the other side of this. or something else to do.

But right now sucks beyond belief.

So food on the table trumps anybody else's request.

Lights and water kept on trumps anybody else's request.

Paying the first mortgage on the residence so we have a place to eat, we have food and water and utilities trumps anybody else's request. No one gets in line in front of your family. Do you hear me, sir? >> Yes, sir. >> You take care of them and then you'll you'll her terror will start to subside and your confidence will start to grow and that's where you're going to grow to fight through this is taking care of those things first. Okay.

>> Absolutely. >> Are you guys in a good church?

>> Um, >> you need to be. You're not. You need to be. Okay. You need to get some people around you that love you and and walk

into the presence of God on Sunday morning while you're fighting the devil cuz this is wicked stuff you're going through, dude. Okay? It's warfare and

there's no other way around it. You got to fight it. Okay? Now, I don't know if you're going to make it or not mathematically.

That's a secondary concern. I'm concerned that you make it and that your wife makes it and your marriage makes it and your kids make it and the rest of these people can jump off a cliff.

>> They're irrelevant to me. The SBA is going to get what they deserve probably, which is nothing.

Cuz they're bankruptible. The IRS is not bankruptible. And those 941s are not going away.

So that thing right there is a real mess. You may end up selling the house to clear the stinking IRS, >> right? I was thinking about going bankrupt, but uh the SBA um you know

it's it's personally guaranteed. So there I don't know if >> you can't bankrupt the business. You're bankrupt because you personally guaranteed it. And that probably means you're selling the house to pay the IRS.

So you need to get the advice of a bankruptcy attorney. I'm not telling you to file, but you need to learn what your options are because number one is not

credit cards. They can jump in a creek.

I'm not paying them nothing. Forget whatever you're paying them. Screw them.

They get nothing. >> And the SBA, screw them. They get nothing right now. They can all just sit over there and look at this mess because they created it, too. And we're going to get we're going to work on the IRS. Oh, you got to keep the car payment paid because you have a car to get to work.

And you need to sit down with the bankruptcy attorney and learn. But I think if there's a way to manipulate through this, you're probably going to end up selling the house to clear the IRS. The rest of it is bankruptible and you can start over. But um I don't I

don't know how you're going to clear all this making 140. There may be a way though. There may be a way. So, but take care of you, John. Take care of your wife. Okay? Promise me.

>> I promise. >> All right. And we're here. If you need us, you call me anytime. I'm here to help you. I've been right where you are.

Hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. I'm going to put you with Ramsey Coach as my gift. We're going to be with you and walk with you. >> Thank you, Dave.

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Hey, we love debtfree screams on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions. We love them even more when they're one of our own Ramsay team members. Yeah, here we go. Grant and

Jordan Trailer are with us. Uh Grant is a director of data and analytics with us at Ramsey Glo Global. How long you been with us? >> Uh about 7 and a2 years.

>> 7 and a2 years. Wow. Okay. Cool. And uh

how much debt have you guys paid, Grant?

>> We paid off just over $130,000.

>> All right. Very cool. And what kind of debt was that? >> Uh that was all the mortgage.

>> Hey house.

>> Paid off your house.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Hey, how old are you two weirdos?

>> I'm 37 and she's a little younger than me. >> I like it. That's a good answer. Like really legit. 36.

>> I was little. a very little.

>> Way to go, guys. What's the house worth?

>> Uh, we think it's worth around 350,000 or so. >> I love it. Amazing. >> Way to go, guys. So, how long did it take you to knock the house out? >> Uh, just over 4 and a half years.

>> Okay. So, you've been doing that while you were working here? >> Yes, sir. >> Now, how weird is it to be working on your get out of debt plan while working at Ramson?

>> Awkward. Weird. >> It It makes it pretty easy to be honest.

got a great support system around me helping encourage us along the way. It's been really cool. >> Yeah. You're not really given an option.

>> It's true. >> We do give you an option. We're not looking at your stuff, but I mean, everybody around you is encouraging rather than discouraging. >> Yeah. >> So, cheering you on. Cheering you on.

Cheering you on. And since it's team members, uh for those of you out there in uh listening on the other side of this on a speaker, we do not ask their um we've got about 150 of their teammates standing around here. So, we don't ask their income. Okay?

So, that's not part of it. But he did it. You did it in in seven. I mean, no, four.

You've been here seven years. You did it in four and a half years. >> Was it faster than you guys were pl like when you originally kind of mapped it out.

>> Uh, it went a little slower. Honestly, when we kind of started out, we set a behag that we knew the math didn't work on. Um, but we just wanted to be aggressive because we knew we didn't really have a math problem. We had a behavior problem and we needed to set a goal so big that it seemed hard and we had to change our behaviors around it.

>> Okay. Yes. So, so the goal itself was probably like a little impossible, but you wanted that. >> Yeah.

Three and a half years was the goal. So, we were about a year behind that. >> Okay. Okay.

So, >> you're you're a failure.

>> None of this failure. Yeah.

>> So, uh Jordan, I mean, he comes to work here and he comes home and we're going to pay off the house in three and a half years. And you're going, "What?" Well, the conversations like that always come at like 11 at night when the kids are, you know, going down and it's quiet and I'm exhausted. And so I definitely did not agree uh at first. It it not only

impossible but like why >> and I don't have this culture around me every day. And so he comes home with these really big ideas and then I kind

of look at him like he's crazy and then he talks me through it. But honestly, the thing that helped the most was he gave me a visual in his data life and it showed me this is where you know like we're wasting money at this point and I was like well that's a lot of money.

>> Yeah. It does like it really doesn't actually make sense to keep doing this so let's do it you know >> let's do it. >> Data guy got you with data.

>> I know graphs and all >> you data analytics comes home from work.

Oh wow. >> Literally every day. Yes. >> I love it. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah.

>> And you have three kids during the time.

So, were you guys because how intense do you feel like you guys were in the four and a half? Like, was it really like, okay, we're going to do as much as we can, as fast as we can, or did y'all live a little through baby steps four through six? >> It felt a bit like a run ahead. Hold on, slow down.

Run ahead. A little slow down. I'm like you. It's like, let's celebrate.

Let's be present. Let's enjoy what we have right now. >> Um, and so he went into some moments that were like, whoa, we're not getting where we're supposed to be going. This is frustrating.

I think that was where he felt like, are we actually going to keep doing this?

needed though I needed that cup of coffee. You know what I mean? Where it was like, um, no, I need I like that.

>> Yeah. And so, uh, we had an anniversary

celebration in the middle of that that was big and just a ton of fun and we acted like kids and I'm kind of still living on that. That was like over two years ago, you know, but when you're not used to having coffee, you know what I'm saying? It's like stuff helps go a long time. So, and our kids are like they don't know that we're weird because they're too young.

Like this is just weird, you know, and that's just their normal. And so >> they talk about it like it's normal, you know? So, I mean, yeah, they >> Well, it's not it's not those kids' parents are heroes. You guys are amazing.

This is You've changed your whole family tree because now you have your entire income, >> no debt of any kind, and you're only 37

years old. >> Yeah. How does that feel?

>> Uh, it feels honestly incredible. We we

knew when we went into the bank, I kind of expected like that moment where we pay it off to be this emotional high and then we'd go back to normal life and it wouldn't feel that different in the day-to-day and it was honestly completely flipped. Uh, in the bank it felt like we were just in a dingy bank surrounded by people who were pretending to be excited for us and it was kind of antilimactic. >> Like yay, >> yay.

And then we went back to everyday life and there was this tangible weight that I didn't know I was walking under the whole time that I could just feel not there. Like there was this freedom that >> I didn't expect. And Jordan and I both made a comment along the way of noticing that and calling out how it was a lot more of a relief than we honestly expected it to be in the dayto-day.

>> What's the big what's the big thing you're going to do for yourselves to celebrate? >> The the big thing to celebrate? We haven't decided where we're going to go yet, but we have always kind of dangled as a carrot out at the other end of this that we want to go on a big trip with our family and like our kids have >> gotten older. So, what that was going to look like has changed over the four and a half years.

So, we're figuring that out.

Either go international or even stay domestic and just really live it up for a little while. Go big. >> I love it. I like it. >> How many paychecks have you guys had without the house payment? >> I think only two. This was the first month's budget that we had without the Crazy. >> That was a tricky conversation. Yeah.

>> Why? >> Cuz you want to spend it. >> No. What? >> No. Because we realized immediately like you you go into your muscle, you know, movement of like, okay, budget talk.

>> And then all of a sudden it was like, well, now that money is sitting there and so he starts allocating and then I come along because I'm the one that comes up behind, you know, cuz I'm not the nerd. And uh and then it was like,

uh, no. Uh, that's not what I was thinking we'd do with that money. And he's like, "Yeah, no." And so, so then

our kids were gone with our amazing parents who have been our biggest cheerleaders this whole time. Shout out to all three sets of parents. And um they were gone and we did a weekend of vision casting >> and that was where it was like, whoa,

debt is a freaking weight >> and it's gone. And now we get to just >> so great. And that was like such an amazing moment not only for the financial part of our home but like us our marriage who we are as souls like we

are imagebearers you know of the kingdom and we're imaging him >> in his >> yeah I'm not going to do that in his generosity you know and so that was the moment for me where it was just like >> that's fun >> we've never had this before we never talked like this before that is so cool >> that's fun >> yeah it was really cool we we kind of in that moment realized we've been going for four and a half years and we had this shared goal and now we don't have that shared goal and we have different expectations and so it was really cool to have that conversation and actually align to where do we want to be 30 years from now.

>> This is a problem people need to have. I >> agree.

>> So good. >> All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's hear their names and ages. Come on up,

guys. And >> so this is Cal. He's 10. Kate is eight.

And Finley is six. >> All right. Gosh, >> you guys have your mom and dad have changed your whole lives and your kids' lives. You don't even know it yet. It's pretty impressive. Very, very cool stuff. Very well done.

>> Did y'all get to miss school today? Did y'all get to miss school to be here? >> No, they're homeschooled. We did all >> Okay. I was like, that's pretty good. That's a good day. That's a good day.

>> All right. Fun. Very fun. All right, guys. 130,000 paid off. House and

everything at 37 years old. They did it

in 4 and 1/2 years. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. Three, two, one.

We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

[Music] >> Wow.

>> Wow. >> Amazing. Oh my gosh,

>> man. That's a power couple right there.

And we have the privilege of working with one of them every >> day. >> Pretty cool stuff. Well, and it just shows when you're intentional and you have the plan, even though it's a big lofty goal like they did the three and a half years, you're, you know, you have something you're aiming for. Even something like paying off a house, which feels impossible for so many people.

>> Boom. >> They did it. >> Boom. >> Don't tell me it can't be done.

>> Grant and Jordan will tell you otherwise. >> Boom.

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[Music]

We've done in-depth research. 100% of

you are going to die.

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Make a will month. And 43% of adults say they don't have a will because they procrastinated. I just haven't gotten around to it. And so, I'm going to leave my family come behind completely vulnerable because I won't do adult stuff like getting a will done or I don't know how to make all these big decisions.

Well, make them. It's a good thing. Otherwise, the state's going to make them for you. Uh, and so, well, everything goes to the family anyway.

No, it al goes to the lawyer. The lawyers get all of it if you don't do a will.

You've got to get your wills done. It's nuts. The number of people that die without a will is it's like seven out of 10 people. This is not good. It's a good way to destroy what little bit of wealth you've built instead of letting your family benefit from it. And and so go to ramseyssolutions.com/willsquiz

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and we'll help tell you what the right kind of will is. Do you need to go to a lawyer and do an in-depth thing or can you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms and do a online will in about 30 minutes? I don't care. But you need to get one done.

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If you've moved states, you need a new will. If your marital status has changed, you need a new will. If major life stuff has blown up, you probably need a new will or you update, change,

amendment, whatever. I don't care, but you need to get this. Stay on top of this stuff, guys. It's too emotionally expensive for those people you leave behind. Trenton is in Washington. Hi,

Trenton. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing fine. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, not a whole lot. had a uh friend recommend me to you and uh I've been hooked on your shows ever since I started watching. Um just had a question. Uh you know, I kind of got myself in a bit of a hole here. I uh recently got let go from my job >> unemployed. >> I got in an accident with a work truck

on while I was on shift uh and out to a job

site. >> So every time someone wrecks a truck, they fire them >> apparently. Oh, >> you weren't like drunk or something?

>> Nope, not at all.

>> Okay. What were you making?

>> Uh, roughly 80,000 a year.

>> You got CDL? >> 85,000. No, light duty tow truck driver

and a roadside mechanic for heavy duty trucks such as semiis.

>> Okay. So, you're a diesel mechanic, >> correct? >> Okay, that's good news. All right.

cuz you probably weren't making enough. I mean, a lot of diesel mechanics make over a hundred.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I originally got put on to

the job for the light duty towing. I just wanted to branch out and try something a little different, I guess. >> Do you have cir do you have certifications in diesel?

>> I do. >> You do?

Okay. How long ago did you get fired?

>> Uh roughly about two months ago, I want to say. >> Why are you not working? and turning a wrench somewhere.

>> Uh, that's the thing is I'm unsure.

I enjoyed towing a lot. I love towing. I want to get back into towing, but

now with that on my record, it's kind of hard. >> Yeah. So, don't >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. You You need a job. You've been sitting on your butt for two and a half months. >> You're going to starve to death. You need to go get a job turning wrench, man. You make a 100K as a diesel mechanic. Go be a mechanic tomorrow.

>> Yeah. and you work your way back into towing in the future years or open your own towing thing later. But let's not let's not get hungry first.

>> What have you been doing during the two and a half months? Watching Oprah

>> Oprah's that in your shows Netflix >> working with friends. >> He's watching your rerun.

>> Watching me, not Oprah. That's great. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, honey, you got you got to get >> a friend making a little bit of money here and there is >> Yeah, you're not Yeah, you're you're sitting on your butt, >> dude. You got to go. You got to go get the You make you have a wonderful skill.

>> For real though, Tinton, >> you have a wonderful skill. >> How are you How are you surviving? How are you paying for food and keeping your rent or mortgage paid, you know, bills?

>> I'm just running to the end of my savings and my wife is currently working. >> Oh, you're married. >> What does she make? Correct. Uh,

I think probably 40 or 50,000 a year.

>> And how old are you, sir?

>> I'm 25. >> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

>> Around 60,000. >> On what?

>> Uh, I think it's like 40 45 on personal

loans, like 15 on two vehicles.

>> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Sure. Are you guys working together? >> You and your wife >> with money or is it >> correct? Yes. No, everything's shared.

It is bank account shared payments.

Everything >> Everything's together. >> Well, let's uh What's she What's she doing? Is she Is what's she saying to you? Is she like, "Hey, Trenton, >> go." Like, what is she Is she urging you to get out there?

>> She is. Yeah. And I guess a big reason that I am not actively looking today is I'm getting ready to go to Ohio for my dad's wedding. Uh not next week, but the week after. And you know, jobs are probably

not going to want to hire me with taking vacation two two weeks from today. I'm going to be >> get the job and it starts the day you get back.

>> Yeah.

I don't know. I guess Yeah. I've definitely been lazy. >> No, listen. Here's what happened. Okay.

You're 25 years old. You were doing something you loved with people you liked and an accident happened that wasn't your fault.

Or if it was your fault, it was still an accident. You didn't do it on purpose.

And the jerks fired you

and it knocked the wind out of you

and you've been laying around two months trying to get your breath back because it knocked the snot out of you. Took some of your confidence and your swagger away.

>> Yeah. Is that right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I could uh >> so I trying I'm trying to tell you in

the last few minutes that you sir have a

wonderful skill that is very marketable and you

can make a lot of money and stacking some cash right now would feel really good to a bruised ego.

>> Yeah, >> it'd be good. Really good. It would return some of your dignity to you that they stole from you.

>> It's kind of ridiculous that they fired you, but they did.

>> I don't know where I was at with it, but you just got to accept it and and roll with what's currently in life, you know. >> Yeah. Well, that's true. But you got to roll now. Okay.

>> What I'm telling you is it's normal to get the breath knocked out of you and it's normal for something like this to hurt. But it you cannot let that be a

reason to be sidelined. They don't have the power to sideline you. Only you have the power to sideline you. And you have sidelined yourself for the last two and a half months while you hurt from this experience. And so I'm mean old Uncle

Dave who's telling you you got chops, you got tools, you know how to fix stuff that nobody else on the planet hardly knows how to do. You can make 80 to 120 grand a year. turn the wrench on a diesel, buddy. And then you go stack you

some cash, clear up this debt, pile up some money, buy you a truck, start your own towing company in four years.

>> Yeah, >> I'll show them.

>> Yeah, that sounds like a damn good plan.

>> Yeah, but it's not going to be it's not going to happen. Uh, working three hours a week, >> right? >> Screwing around, >> right? It's time to throw your shoulders back and go, I'm better than the way I was treated.

>> You are better than the way you were treated. >> You are better than the way you were treated. >> You have an actual skill in a world that

doesn't know how to do things. You know how to do things.

And so you you you have a tremendous advantage.

I mean, if you were just doing dumb work

and got fired and then you got to go look for more dumb work that this conversation could wouldn't sound like this.

But dude, I'm serious. I mean, Mike Row that does dirty jobs and I he he was showing me the the data the other day on the trades and one of the things that keeps popping up and one of the hottest things out there and and the biggest shortage is freaking diesel mechanics.

>> Literally what Yeah. I talked to one the other day that's making 120.

>> And so I I'm serious. It's not a bad You

are in a really good shape. And the best, let me tell you, the best revenge for stuff like this is success.

Success is a wonderful revenge. And you

don't even have to mention their name ever again. You just move on. And then you can build a company bigger than them.

by the time you're 46. It could happen.

Could happen. I know guys that do it.

Have at it, brother.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. The number is88255225.

An is in Kentucky. Hi, Anne. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I'm calling today with a little bit of a different dilemma. Um my husband and I have been married for a little over 10 years. Um we graduated right before we got married and he found you. So, we um well, he had to get me on

board kind of, but we decided to follow the baby steps. Um we paid off over

$300,000 of student loan debt in about four years. >> Oh my gosh. And then we decided we decided we would start saving for a down payment for our first home. >> Good. >> Um so we did that. We were started investing in our 401ks, doing all the right things. Um but it's been kind of a

struggle to find the right home. Um trying to find something that we both agree on. So that was about 5 years ago

now and we still haven't taken the plunge. Um mostly on my husband's end.

Um, and in the meantime, you know, we've just been piling up all this cash. So, we have >> Okay, so wait a minute. Stop. Stop. I'm confused. The goal that we both agreed to was to save up a big down payment and then get a house >> and now you can't agree on the house for

five years.

>> That's correct. Um, >> what is it what is it he wants that you don't want or vice versa? Um, well, I think at this point the biggest issue is that we have over $600,000 saved and

seeing that money go.

>> Okay. No, no, no. You said you couldn't agree on the house.

>> Well, I am >> now he just doesn't want to buy a house.

>> Well, he won't admit to that. But I do think that's a big part of it. Yes. >> Okay. So, no, let me go back to the other part cuz >> if he found a house he liked >> Uhhuh. >> I think you could get him to do it.

Well, did he has he ever found a house he liked in or do you kept showing him over five years different houses and he just didn't like it anymore? >> No. >> Well, a little caveat. We live in like Appalachia. There's not a lot of real estate. Um, so it is kind of hard where

we live to find a house that meets all of, you know, what we want. Like he wants a garage so we can have a boat one day and he wants all this stuff that is kind of hard to find. >> We got $600,000. Are you in a you're in rural eastern Kentucky, >> correct?

>> Okay. So, typically you're not looking

in a subdivision. Correct.

>> Um, that's correct. There are a couple of subdivisions here, but homes there are anywhere from 600,000 to over a

million dollars depending on what you get. >> Okay. So, what are you looking at?

>> That's another thing is it's been hard for us to agree. You know, when we started out, we said maybe max of 600 and then he's like, "Well, I don't think I want to spend that much a couple years later." And then now it's back to It's just been really a struggle to come to an agreement.

>> Okay. Meanwhile, the houses in that subdivision have gone up 300 grand.

>> Correct. Yes. >> That's stupid.

I mean, you're >> I agree. >> Yeah. We're not parking the money and we're instead the money sitting here making 3% and if it was invested in a good piece of real estate called your home, it would have gone up 10 or 15% during that period of time, >> right? Um I'm just struggling with at what point >> this has cost you $100,000 this out >> it's called cost you $100,000. Yeah. I mean I I think that you guys are going to have to sit down and go look I'm not okay. I'm not okay.

>> We we agreed that we were going to buy a house. Now, we need and we're not going to there's no such thing as a perfect house. >> And there's no such thing as a perfect husband either.

>> So, I'm going to settle on both of them.

We're going to get a house. I'm gonna get an imperfect house with my imperfect husband. Ready, set, go. Here we go.

We're going to do this. We agreed to this. This is what we're going to do. And sitting on this money is costing us.

And I'm getting increasingly pissed.

>> Right. Yes. For sure.

>> Now, this is this is what you're describing. And I think you just need to say it out loud. I don't think you've said it out loud. >> Yes. You said that you have >> I have I actually yeah like there's been some things um just a few months ago we

things came to a head and I was like I think we just need some time apart. Um

so he did leave for a few days um and

kind of had a change of heart and came back and we looked at some homes but it's just like dragging the feet it seems like.

>> Yeah. So,

your marriage counselor that you need to be seeing should be walking you guys through the idea that he is not respecting your opinion >> and you, >> okay?

>> Okay. Because uh >> that's kind of how I feel. I feel >> it doesn't mean he has to go along with you, >> but when he agrees to something and then slow walks it, >> that means he's patting you on the little head.

Right. And sweet little girl.

>> I haven't been like, you know, when when we agreed to purchase a home five years ago, like I just feel at this point like I've lost trust >> also, if that makes sense, >> with his word because he said he was going to do one thing and he won't follow through with what you guys agreed with. >> Yeah. So, you're losing you're losing respect and he's los he's not respecting

your thing. So, this is a this is a marriage breakdown. It's gone really deep here. This is sad. I mean, when I started the call, it was just like, "We need to buy a house." And now it's like, "This is tearing our marriage apart."

>> Basically, yes. >> Oh, wow. All right.

So, um I'm not sure

he has gotten the memo yet.

>> Okay. >> Um that that how serious this is. I mean, I understand he left and came back and >> it's not about the house anymore. This is no longer about the conversation.

now this is now about us agreeing on something. We both have a vote and then executing on what we agree on >> and and the statement and which I think is is big in a marriage that I I'm starting to not to trust you. Like that's a big like that the one person in life that you should trust is the spouse. Like that's the that is the you know that's the person.

>> I have. Yeah. >> Okay. And how does he respond?

Um, I mean, it's hard for me because he's very he's a person who can't make a decision. He overanalyzes everything.

So, he he acts like he he understands

why I would feel that way. >> Sure. >> That he just can't seem to move past

past the point of actually putting it into action. Yeah. I guess if I'm explaining that correctly. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. If I'm his if I were sitting there in the office with the marriage counselor and you two were sitting there, I would challenge him that he now has grown to love the $600,000 cash more

than a house and more than his wife's wishes.

>> Okay. >> And that's that's a that's a dangerous place. It's what you've described. >> Yeah, it's a great it's a great way of saying it. >> It's what you've described and I think you guys have got to work through that.

Um, this guy sounds like he is

emotionally uh stunted and so um you guys have got some work to

do and then the house purchase will be a result of you having found some healing and trust and respect and those other words in your marriage again back in your relationship >> and the house purchase. So I think the house purchase is not happening is revealing other things that are going on. It's not the It's the symptom

>> and it's a deep scarcity mindset on his end, too. I mean, he just he didn't want to let go of anything. There's a level of like that. >> Well, if he's said he's a detail guy, he's got paralysis of the analysis.

>> He's sitting around thinking >> and he wants to just keep it all runs over in his head. That's too much. This is I mean, it's >> 27 27,000 variables at one time instead of just going and doing something.

>> Ready? Aim. Aim. Aim. Aim. Aim.

>> There's some control. He has fire. Yeah.

Oh, dear God. >> Come on. Jeez.

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Today's question of the day on the Ramsey Show is brought to you by Why Refi? If you've been turned down for refinancing your defaulted private student loans, you're not alone and you're not out of luck. Yi exists to give people like you another shot. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y reffy.com/ramsey.

Not in all states.

>> Today's question comes from hunter in Texas. My wife is a CPA and smarter than me, better looking than me, and better at everything except for choosing a spouse. Good line.

>> She uses every dollar to make sure we don't overspend, but treats it like a general guideline, not something to actually stick to. I always thought the budget was like a script for a play where you write the numbers and once the play starts, you don't go off script.

Who is right?

Uh I mean I yield to you Hunter in it that when you set the budget, it is what it is.

Now I do know after doing budgeting for 10 plus years 15 years of marriage uh

there's going to be a lot of circumstances for us it's almost monthly now where things come up that you don't

realize and so you have to add an extra line item you got to shift some numbers around. So there is kind of this ever moving part of the budget which is going to be real like that that's going to happen. Um, so it's less of a guideline, but when you when you plan it, you stick to it and when something comes up, you may have to kind of shift and figure out how to make it work, but it's still going to work within the numbers.

doctor visit. I literally paid today from two weeks ago and I didn't know that was going to happen, right? And so you got to like put that in the average budget and then I'm shifting other things. So, so things are going to come up that you don't expect. And so there is going to be a level of having to be somewhat flexible, but for the most part, I'd say 90% of it is planned out

that you 100% should know from start to finish of the month. >> Yeah. You need to agree on where every dollar is going to go to and stick to it. And if you're going to make a change, and you will, as Rachel said, make some changes, but in the middle of the month, uh, the only way you make a change, two things have to occur. We both agree to the change. You don't make the change and then go, look what I did, and we both agree to the change. And if

you if you raise the amount of money in

a category or create a new category, you've already spent all your money on paper. So you also have to lower >> some other category by that same amount.

So if you if you create a line item for $134 for an unexpected doctor visit for

a sick kid and that was not in the budget, then we have to lower some other amount somewhere in the budget by $134

cuz you're not in Congress. This has to balance and and so two things occur when ch when changes are made. Number one, both agree to it before you do it. Number two, you

lower another category by the amount you raised that category.

>> That's exactly right. >> And so there's still balances.

>> And that's another part of being debtree. When we tell people to work their way out of debt, you actually have margin. So you may be putting some money away in savings and you may kind of have to take some of that lower a little bit of the savings to to pay some of this.

>> $134 less going into savings.

>> Right. That's right. That but that's like all of this works in unison, right?

like you're moving forward with your money throughout the baby steps to help even with some of these things which is great. >> Yeah. But a general guideline means she's doing whatever she wants to do and reporting to you later and that's not okay. >> Yeah. I would be stricter on it.

>> That's not that's not No, you're more right than she is.

>> And one thing you guys could do is sign up for one of our every dollar trainings. We have free trainings um weekly now in the Ramsey personalities.

do it because every dollar within the budgeting app, it's going to help you not only with the budget, but we have a digital coach component which is actually going to show you and help you work the baby steps to know, okay, what are things within my financial world that I can shift and change to be more proactive. And so all of that is in these every dollar trainings. So if you guys want to check it out, you can sign up for free. Yep.

>> At ramiesolutions.com/webinar, we do a Q&A. We walk through a lot of these kind of questions like what you just had, Hunter. So yeah, make sure to check that out. Rob's in Indiana.

>> Hey, thanks for having me on. I have a very quick math nerd question for you guys. Dave is your man. Our house >> Dave is ready for it.

>> Wonderful. Um, we owe $125,000 left on

our house. And um, our monthly payment

for our mortgage is $1,500 a month. Our

take-home pay is about $8,500.

Um, we have a three-year-old son and we're only going to be able to have one baby because of COVID related stuff. Um, and I already have about 25 to $30,000

saved for my son's college already. Um,

we had been putting $417 a month into a 529 for him and I was

thinking about stopping putting any money in his college basically to get our just have another

four five $417 a month to put towards our mortgage to try to get it paid off in the next three years. And with your guys online mortgage payoff calculator, if I pay around $4,000 a month, I can actually get our budget completely paid off or our mortgage completely paid off.

Yeah, but you're talking about 1,500 plus 400. It would be 1,900, not 4,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I've I've went through my budget and I've already found um another $1,500 that I could put towards it every month. >> Okay. >> Um >> and your wife's on board with all that.

>> Wondering. >> Yes, I think she's on board with all. >> You've got room to breathe. You're not doing rice and beans. That's not what we're trying to do. >> Oh, no. Absolutely not. We're we're doing just fine. >> Okay. All right. Um, yeah, you can circle back to the 529 later if you need to after the four years cuz how old is your baby?

>> Three. >> Yeah. So, I mean, 3 years from now, the house is paid for. Four years from now, the house is paid for. There's seven. If you need if you look up and go 25 is not going to be enough or what the 25 is going to grow to is not going to be enough. Then I can add add some money and catch back up. You won't have any trouble because you won't have a house payment anymore.

>> Yeah, exactly. I figured if I put the money we put towards our mortgage back in for one year, that's $18,000, which would be >> more than I was going to miss out on before. >> Exactly. And way more and and it will

continue to grow anyway. It might be enough in there already depending on the college choice and what how what you're planning to fund and all that kind of thing. So, if it's invested in good mutual funds, um it's 2550, 100, uh it's

probably 200 grand when they get there if you don't if you don't add anything.

So, you know, you need to sit with your uh with your Smart Investor Pro and calculate out what the 25 is going to grow to. And that'll tell you if you need to add anything at all and you can certainly do that after four and a half years after the house is cleared. So, I'm with you. Good plan. Rock and roll.

Math nerd approved. Boom. There we go.

>> He said I had a math nerd question. I was like, perfect. Dave loves a >> I love a good math riddle. >> Good math riddle.

>> I was that nerd kid for sure. All right.

Mike's in Nebraska. Hey, Mike.

>> Hey. How's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Great. Um uh so I have a situation where

um my parents, you know, growing up I I knew my parents weren't weren't the best with their finances. Um, it's something that I initially struggled with, but then feel like I'd done a me and my wife have done a good job. But, um, come to find out after my dad's passing a couple

years ago, uh, just how bad they were with money. Um, and they had essentially racked up $200,000 worth of debt living off of a line of credit. Um, now it's

just my mom on her acreage. Um, and I

have over the cla past two years been

working to uh I started an LLC to uh do

a storage business on her property in order to try and monetize her property a bit and get her more income

uh to cover the mortgage that we had to um get for her.

>> Um we had to get for her uh >> that that I helped her get for herself.

>> Okay. You're not on the mortgage.

Uh, we did cosign on it because of my

mom's my my mom's 74. So, we put um

because of our our house was paid off.

Um, I co-signed for it.

>> Okay. How can I help?

>> Um, my question is, um, they don't she

doesn't have a lot of retirement. Um, little to none. She gets like essentially like $5,000 um annuity a year that usually goes towards >> uh her some of the medicine that she has for the year. Um >> she has social security coming in.

>> She has social security. Yes. How much is that? What she lives?

>> Um she gets about just a little over 2,000. >> All right. Tell you what, hang on through the break. We'll come back talk to you. I don't have enough information to spit an answer at you. So hang on.

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All right, we're talking with Mike in Nebraska. Mike's mom is 74. She's got 3,000 coming in for social security, 5,000 a year from an annuity to help with her medical bills. She and her husband, Mike's dad, ran up a bunch of debt. We're not very good with money.

Mike jumped in, took out a mortgage, and put a storage building on their lot and

he co-signed the mortgage. And that's how far we'd gotten in the discussion.

Does that all sound accurate, Mike?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. Um, now, so how much is the mortgage now?

>> Um, it's the mortgage right now is 1,300

a month. >> No, I mean the balance, I'm sorry.

>> Oh, sorry. The balance, um, we started at 203 and it's at 185 right now.

>> Okay. And the property and with the

storage building, everything added to it. The current value of the whole thing is what?

uh roughly be probably guesstimate between 800 to 900.

>> Okay. All right. So, there's around 700K in equity right now.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And this and she's lived on this property for how long?

>> Um since I was little. Uh we've had it's been in our this uh land's been in our

family since my dad grew up on the land.

>> Okay. So, you're the third generation.

Mhm. >> Okay. All right. So, your grand your your grandparents were there.

>> Mhm. >> And you have memory of all that, too.

How many how much acreage is there?

>> Um, it's roughly about nine just under

nine acres. Um, but >> how how rural is the area?

>> Um, it's it's not it's right next to a a

highway that connects to decent sized town. So, it's it's uh not very >> I mean cuz 9 acres at 100 grand an acre doesn't sound like farmland.

>> Um it's it has two houses on it. Um

>> how many storage units how many storage units you put on it?

>> Uh right now we're like we have two sheds but that do like basically and we're doing RV and boat storage for the storage. >> Okay. All right. And you live nearby?

>> Uh yeah, in town.

>> Okay. So you're trying to help her run boat storage s storage get enough cash flow to pay this mortgage.

>> Yeah. So the mo like so far we've been able to between renting the sheds and uh

the storage been able to cover the mortgage for the year as well as like a little bit more. She gets um $1,000 rent

from the other house that's on the property. >> So is she living on is she living less than she makes now with your help?

Sorry, say that again. >> I said, is she able to live on the money that these things are providing her with social security?

>> She's I have her living off of um just

social security. She did get like my my dad was the type that he didn't uh he wanted my mom to um be at home and so

>> um she never she hasn't worked for a long time after her initial career. And then um but she does a part-time job now and all the money from that job goes towards principal on the loan.

>> Okay. All right. So, she's on board on all this. Sounds like she >> much like she she she realizes her

situation. >> She got her head in the game. She's not going to get to keep this property if she doesn't get her act together. And she's getting her act together. That's good. >> Yeah. The property is what I feel like is the saving grace for her. Um and what

the only thing that we have like that keeps us from being >> okay. So how's her health >> financially made?

>> Um she's she's her health is good not

great. Um >> are you the sole heir? >> She's um I have a brother as well.

>> Okay. So what happens when she passes?

>> Um the the the land is split between my

brother and myself.

What are you going to do then >> in terms of >> um my hope was to build up a storage the

storage business on there in order to offset any cost for her future uh home care. Um >> I'm talking about your brother. How are you going to split the land with your brother when she's gone?

>> Um the land can the land's large enough that we actually got an approval to um property linewise split the property in half if we wanted to. You can't. There's a mortgage on it.

>> Um, that's Well, one of the questions I had like questions for calling that I had for that was um I have

I have uh stock from my company and it's

sort of just been plateauing for a while. Um, and I was wondering if it would be wiser to take that money and roll it into her loan to pay it off and then have the property storage sort of

pay back. >> How are you protected from your brother ending up with that money?

>> Uh, my mom has basically said that anything that I put into the land, she would modify her will to make sure that I'm like the any money I put into the land is protected as like first out.

So, if we had ultimately decided to sell the land, um, >> yeah, you you would need to take a lean.

You would need to take a lean on the land for the 185.

>> How much is the value of your stock?

>> Um, right now it's um 120, but like as

it rolls off, like it'll be 200 and then if the stock goes up, whatever growth from that.

>> As it rolls off, what do you mean? Uh

like uh every every quarter or so I get

more released to me.

>> Oh, so it's restricted. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So you just got to All right. Um >> stay with the company. >> Yeah. Is your brother have you got having good communications with him on all this so you don't get burned?

>> Um I mean we're we're on the same page.

Um, we're I I think I'm more on the on

the hook financially. Yeah. He is right now. >> You're the only one on the hook, >> obviously. But, um, but yeah, he's he's

supportive and helps with the property and the management of things and helps with my mom. So, like he's he's on board with everything. >> All right. Yes, I would pay off the mortgage with your stock. >> Yes. Because the mortgage is in your name. You have stock to pay off a mortgage that's in your name? Yes, I would. But you need to take a lean against the property. Take a mortgage against the property uh at uh no interest and uh to be paid when um you

know to be taken as a as a

>> that guarantees that her will functions

because now you have a lean on the property and your brother cannot get anything out of the property until that mortgage is paid. Okay? and you got the

ability to to split the property easily because you're the mortgage holder then.

>> But you're not going to split a property with a commercial mortgage holder unless you refinance, >> right? Um, and if I I guess my the thing

that I've batt I've gone back and forth with was between the money going from my stock into the property versus um going

into like retirement accounts and things for myself cuz I don't >> Well, this is your retirement because you're betting the farm. Listen, you went borrowed $185,000 >> or you went and borrowed 200,000 now it's down to 185.

>> You act like your mother did this. You did this. It's you're you're liable. You

have a mortgage. So, no, you don't put money in retirement while you have a mortgage on a side piece of farmland.

>> No, absolutely not. So, you you left the

you left the position of separation a long time ago. This is no longer separated. This is not your mom's deal.

Tangled. Yeah. >> This is your deal cuz you signed up for it and you're heavily invested with time and effort and everything else. I like where it's taking you guys overall cuz your mom has taken responsibility. She's reigned herself in. She's, you know,

taken a job. She's I'm living on a budget. Your brother's involved.

>> 200,000 take a lean on the property for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. What whatever he pays off.

If he takes 185, pays off the mortgage, he puts a lean against it for 185, that means 185 comes to him before he splits with his brother after she's gone.

>> Yeah. Yeah. What about her $200,000 line of credit? >> That's it. They refinanced took it out >> for the is they already took it out.

They refinanced it. So that that's the thing. So we're getting rid of that and yeah, no debt now. The only debt is you

>> and you're not collecting on it until she's gone. And um so that money is not

working very hard for you, but it you know, you're dealing with third generation land. You guys are planning to keep it. You're not going to liquidate it. So there's no there's no out for you other than pay off the debt.

So that's the you stepped into it and you got it on your shoe. That's the way it works.

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Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4:12. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well-fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. Maya Angelo said,

"Forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn't know before you loaned it."

>> Oh, that's good. >> That's good. I like it. All right. Don's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Don. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. I see on my screen that you are a baby step millionaire. Congratulations.

Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Well done. So, what's your net worth?

>> It is $1,773,412.

>> Way to go, man. Way to go. Give me a little breakdown on that by category.

What's it invested in?

>> Sure. That's uh 652,000 in 401k,

161,000 in a Roth IRA,

um 35,000 and a 529. Uh our mortgage or

house is paid for. Home value of 446,000.

We have a cabin that's also paid for,

valued at 385,000.

Then we have 91,000 cash.

>> All right. How old are you?

>> Um 38. My wife and I are 38 and we became millionaires when we were 35.

>> Way to go. You did early. Congratulations. How much of this did you inherit?

>> We inherit about 90,000 from my wife's grandma when she passed away. >> How long ago was that?

>> Um 2018.

>> Were you already millionaires by then?

>> Uh 2022 is when we when we became millionaires. >> Okay. So you shot up, man. Way to go.

Okay. So mathematically though, you did not become a millionaire because of inheritance. >> No. >> No. This is all you saving and dipping.

And what what's been your range of income since you started working? Best year, worst year?

>> Um worst year 45,000. Household. Um the

max is going to be this year. We're expecting it to be around 315,000.

>> What you do for a living? >> And >> so I work in supply chain analytics in the food manufacturing industry. Um, my wife is a manager for the state of Michigan. Um, we've both had incremental progress throughout our careers.

>> Okay. >> Great. >> Cool. Cool. So, you got a degree in supply chain logistics.

>> Um, my degree is actually in general management and I have an MBA in marketing. Okay. >> And my wife has a degree in environmental science and biology and she also has a MBA, but that's in consulting. >> Okay. >> So, how do you uh attribute Okay. the

high of a 315, but that's just recently.

So, most of this time you've been making probably between 100 and 200. And you get to you get to a net worth millionaire status at 35 years old.

>> Somebody's 22 is listening to us right now. Tell them how you did that.

>> So, we graduated college in 2011, living

on on nearly nothing. And once we got

into our careers, we just pretended like we had no money and just put all of our income towards getting our our debt paid off. So I graduated with $60,000 in debt and

student loans. We got that paid off in two years. Um and we just really focused

on putting our whole household behind getting out of debt. That's what we did.

Um we bought our first house in May 2015. We paid that off in four years and

then you we paid off we we bought our cabin in um 2023.

We paid it off in one year. So I think really the big secret for us was extremely focused on getting out of debt, putting our entire household behind it. >> Well, and you've been systematically dumping money in this 401k and Roth like crazy, too, because you got about 900 in that.

Yeah, we've been uh fortunate enough that we've been able to contribute to

our retirements, but also have a high enough income that we've made, you know, got our debt paid off, too. So, um >> yeah, lifestyle creep is not what I would say for you guys. You guys have stayed very intentional.

>> Yeah. If if you look at us, we have a a

pretty average house with pretty average vehicles and we wear pretty average clothes. So, you know, um you know,

walking down the street, you wouldn't see us and think we're millionaires, but we are. So, it's pretty awesome.

>> Well, you weren't trying to impress anybody walking down the street. You're trying to impress the people in your house, >> you and your wife.

>> That's all that's all we care about, impressing. And so, that sets it up.

Wow. Very cool, man. So, uh, you think

in today's world, the current economy

sitting right where we are, that if you came out of school, you could do this again in the same period of time or faster.

>> I mean, um, if I graduated right now, we had to do it all over again. We could probably do it as fast. We're just, um, that's just the kind of people we are.

We, uh, you know, we both legitimately

get angry at the debt that we had um, when we first started paying off our mortgage. We um we don't even know what the minimum payment was because we would we would pay four or five times that every month. So, and then every time we paid

it down, uh we would get kind of excited by it. So, we were spending thousands of dollars towards our mortgage and it was

awesome because our our cost of living was so low that we could do it and it wouldn't hurt us. So, but now we're we're set up for life and hopefully continues this way. >> So, great. What are you guys doing now for fun? Now that there's >> you guys make a great income. You're doing everything. You have no mortgages on both prop on either property.

>> What does life look like now?

>> Uh well, we've got two kids. We have a a seven-year-old and four-year-old. They keep us busy. Um we really enjoy going to our cabin. It's a it's a good way to uh to unwind and relax. Um we spend a

lot of time with our families. We just took our kids to a a surprise vacation

um over in Wisconsin.

Um, and you know, I think we're planning on possibly going on a cruise next year.

>> So fun. That's great.

>> Being in a position to where we could do those things without really needing to worry about >> impacting our our personal lives is is very uh enjoyable and freeing.

>> Yeah. Wow. Very cool. Good for you guys.

Well done. Well, we're getting ready to announce another Ramsey cruise, so be listening. Great.

>> Join us on that one.

We'd love to have you. Way to go, guys.

I'm so proud of you. >> In your 30s. That's incredible.

>> What What do you drive?

>> Um, my wife drives a 2014 Chevy Sonic.

>> Mhm. >> U, we bought that in 2014 and we we bought it new, but it was a pretty inexpensive car, but we we paid that off about three months after we bought it.

>> And then I drive a um a 2020 Ford F-150

that we paid cash for. Mhm.

>> Mhm. Okay. Yeah. You need to upgrade

your wife's car.

>> That car sucks.

>> Yeah, I know. We've uh >> You have $2 million.

>> She's laughing at you right now. She can hear you. >> Yeah, your wife's car sucks. You need to go get her a car, dude.

>> I I will cry. She likes her car, though.

>> I don't.

>> Hey, Don. I'm proud of you guys. Way to go, y'all. We're so proud of you. Way to go. Baby steps millionaires at 35 years old. We're talking to him here. He's 38.

They are 38. They together that you did

hear that very clearly. We talk up to couples about the correlation between the ability to build wealth and working together. >> And the speed at which you do it. You're both in. >> Change up. Yeah, you're going. We both were mad at debt.

>> We both agreed to put thousands of dollars on our mortgage. >> We both were excited when we seen the numbers go down. It's like they Yeah.

Hey, >> that you heard the unity >> all the way through that. So, when we're trying to get you couples to combine your finances, we're trying to get you couples to be in agreement on where you're going and how you're going to get there. >> This is where it takes you. You're 38 years old with a million7 and I'm griping you out to buy your wife a better car. That's where it gets you.

>> Yep. >> Okay. Cuz you guys understand when they're 44, if they do nothing else, this is 3 million4.

when they are 51 if they do nothing else. This is $7 million.

This is where this is going. You want me to do it again? $14 million. You want me to do it again? >> $28 million in their 60s.

That's where these numbers are going. That's how this works. And so when you once you get this thing going in the right direction and you quit supporting life insurance companies and banks and car companies and instead start supporting your own stinking family, you become this guy. This guy's a this

couple's a rockstar, man.

>> Power couple >> and the values. >> Don't tell me you can't do it. Don't tell me the American dream is dead. I talk to people like Don every week. I just think you've been listening to your communist college professor too much.

This free enterprise system stuff works, boys and girls. Go do what Don did. That

puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 34. Discipline Today Can Rewrite Your Financial Future | February 17, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwind's Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls about your life and your money uh for the next couple hours. So if you want to, you can get involved by calling8 8255225. In the meantime, we'll

go to the phone lines where we have Lisa who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hey Lisa.

Hi. Thank you all so much for taking my question. Um so we have been served

papers on an old debt that um we now are

having to um either go to court and um

fight it or settle. And so we don't have the money for a lawyer. So we've been using chat um AI to kind of guide us

through and so far it's worked like you know we've we've been able to

um prolong it a little bit. So but now

you know I need guidance. I need real guidance on on what to do and where to go. >> How long ago was this?

>> Um

why are you It's okay.

>> Take a deep breath. >> I'm so sorry. >> That's okay. >> Sorry. Um I'm sorry. I'm just nervous and then it's just very emotional.

>> Yeah. >> Stressful. Stress.

>> Stress.

Okay.

>> So, um the debts from 2017 or we took

the loan out in 2017 and then >> Okay. >> Like around 2019. It's a SoFi loan. They

gave us 50 grand. It was great. We reconsolidated debt. It didn't work.

>> Um and um so around 2019, I had a baby

and then um right around the corner of

2020, all of a sudden I was home and had

to quit my job. And so it was just my husband. Um, and we um we kind we were

kind of like we miss a couple of payments and um but we would catch up and then right around the corner of 2020 like they just sold it off like it didn't matter. Um and so we've been fighting it ever since.

>> Um they served us papers December 16th.

I think hoping like we only had 20 days to respond and I think they were hoping that with the holidays we wouldn't be able to find a lawyer and we wouldn't know what to do. we just wouldn't respond. But we did. We got it together.

We put it in chat. Chat gave us some information. We sent it. They sent us back discovery. Most of it redacted. Um

and so our next like we were going to send another request for more discovery, but instead we just sent them a prosay

um if they would settle and save.

>> What company? What company owns the debt right now? Do you know the name of it?

>> L Yeah, LVN Envy.

>> And what's the LV Envy?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, Lisa, I need I need you to just um understand who you're dealing with because I do think that always helps the stress level. Okay. When bad debts, whether it's loans, credit cards

are sold, they sell them to a company.

The company the company, you know, repackages them with other loans, sells it to another company, and it's been probably passed around. Okay? So, you're dealing with someone who's sitting in a cubicle who's been on the job for probably 3 weeks >> and will probably end up leaving in two months because the turnover rate with

collectors is is is constant. It's

constant. Okay. So, it feels scary and it's a big number, right? So, we're going to have to address it. But, I do want to take some of the stress out of who it is. It's it's someone who honestly has probably the worst job on the planet who is calling and serving people old debt.

>> And again, it the intimidation factor is so big, but the reality of it's not, Lisa. So, so we have to deal with it.

So, I'm not minimizing the situation, but I do want you to just realize the person you're talking to or who even wrote the letter to serve. It's probably not even going to be there in 60 days. It's going to go on to someone else. And then the company Envy or whatever the >> LN LVN Envy, >> it's >> Okay.

Okay. There you go. Yeah. >> You know what, Lisa?

I used to back in the day when the credit card companies used to call me and debt collectors used to call me. I used to just imagine that they probably had more debt than I did, otherwise they wouldn't be working there.

Like it just it made the whole thing a lot less intimidating. Have you offered So, you have no money right now. Have you offered to do any sort of um payment

plan?

>> Um so in the past like the past couple of years um we did a payment plan for

like cuz they'll do one for like 12 months and then after that amount of time they'll hit you back up and they want the whole amount. >> Sure. So explain to us what's going on with your money now that >> over the course since 2017 and even 2020

on where we haven't been able to kind of stack together any money to make any sort of uh deal on this or keep the the

payment plans going. Tell us what's going on now.

>> Um so now we're doing better. Like our income is getting up there. Um in 2020 it just wasn't. >> What is it today? What's your income today? 204.

>> Okay. And is this the only debt that you have or do you have other debts? Okay.

Tell us really quickly about the other debts so we can understand how this fits in. >> So we have uh 58,000 of like other debt and cars.

Um >> tell me the two tell me the cars. What do they each total?

>> Um one is 11 and one is 15.

And then the other debt is um a I think

there's two loans like small loans and then credit cards. >> So, and we've been paying it down like it was much worse than that. So, there is light at the end of this tunnel. Like 58,000 sounds really really bad and it is. Um and then we have a mortgage and our mortgage is 175,000 but our house is worth like 450.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, I I just with the numbers you're telling me, I don't see a world where you're not setting up a payment plan and in the meantime stacking up a bunch of cash to cash to settle. >> I think I think a lot of your uh trauma and shame about this lives in the past cuz it sounds like today you have the ability to start getting this cleaned up. Tell unless you tell me a reason that you don't see that hope.

>> No, I do. Yeah. I just I mean do you think that we should settle?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. You just have to have the amount of money to settle and depending on how um I mean how long it's been and how long you know considering this was a you stopped really paying in 2020. It's been six years. So they're probably not expecting to really get paid. Lisa I mean at the end of the day they're probably >> they probably assume you guys are broke.

So if you >> put 50% and and settle this.

>> Yes. That's what I was going to say. if you could get maybe 15,000 and that means you guys are going to have to limit your li like you guys are going to have to be working extra. You're going to limit lifestyle.

You're going to do whatever you can and you're going to get $15,000 as soon as possible.

>> What are your cars worth? The one that's 15,000. If you were to sell it, what could you get for it?

Um, maybe 20 or 22.

>> You know what I'd do? I'd sell one of these cars and be done with this today.

Hypothetically, I'd sell one of these cars if you can get 20 for it and you only owe 15.

>> Um, >> go get a $5,000 car to settle.

>> Uh-huh. Um, is it paid off or I'm sorry.

Yeah, I would do that. I would clear that out, get more money per month, then I can add that up and then I can settle this debt very quickly. That's what I would do. It's going to be a major sacrifice. But the way you cried when you came on the line, this has been going on for long enough. Like far far

too long. And I would be going to great extents to make this better in the next I'd give myself 30 days to make this happen. And if that means selling cars and driving junkers, then that's what I'm going to do.

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All right, let's go back to the phone lines where we have Marie who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Marie.

>> Hello.

>> What's up? >> Hi. I have a little bit of an issue that

I need a solution to.

>> Okay. >> Um, I was scammed about 10 years ago.

Lost all my money, my house, my car, my jewelry. >> Holy smokes. >> Oh my gosh. Marie. >> Yeah. It was it was it was considerable.

And that's why I'm still working at 71.

But >> uh when I came clean to my daughter, we decided on a plan. And uh we opened a

joint checking account and she has taken all my money, my pay, my social security

every month and gives me an allowance for food, gas, medication, etc. When the

rent is due, she transfers that money, any kind of car repairs, insurance, she does an extra transfer.

Uh we had managed to save almost $200,000 during that time, which is remarkable. >> Oh my gosh. How much of that's yours and how much is hers?

>> It's all mine, but it's all in her name.

I don't have access to it. She doesn't send it. >> She sends me screenshot. It's all still there. >> Good for you, Marie. Well done.

>> But I I want this arrangement to stop.

I've asked for several times and she's just not inclined to do so. She still

hasn't addressed me. Understandable.

But uh uh you know I would like to have

>> uh my money available to me when I want

it. >> Okay. >> And I don't know one time I I contacted

an agency for elder abuse in the in in my area and they told me to take her name off the account. Well, I didn't do that. I opened another account and had my money go there. She found out. She came. She was not very happy.

>> Make me close the account and transfer it back to the joint account.

>> What is her when that happens? What is she telling you? Is cuz there is a reason that this arrangement was made.

What is it that she's afraid that you're going to do?

>> She's afraid that I'm going to get, you know, pulled back into that that scenario and she does not want me to be

penniless again. And I can understand it. the scenario where you were scammed.

>> Yes. >> Are there things, Marie, that you want to do with your money right now that she's saying no to?

>> Well, I'm my my rent my lease had ended

last March and I wanted to buy a condo

or a townhouse and she wasn't on board with that. She said the only way that would happen if the if the property was

going to be put in her name, which I didn't have a problem with that, but it ended up I had to move to another place and I have a lease now with an apartment.

So, >> okay. >> Am I out of line to ask to be able to

use my money or should I just suck it up

and continue with our arrangement?

>> You're not out of line to ask to use your money. I there's another side to this that I I want to know more about.

Is she keeping you from

and here I'm just going based on what you said. It sounds like something was so drastic that she was brought in to help you. >> And she's probably looking at this and I'm not saying that she's right. I'm just trying to get both sides. She might be looking at this going, you know, the best predictor of the future is the past unless something has changed, right? So, she might be looking at this going, I don't see why I would expect anything different if I let her have access to

this money again. So, you might have to explain to her, here's why this is different. Here's why this is not like it was before. Because you said she's afraid I'll fall back into my own old ways. That got me scammed again. So, if you know that, my thought would be I need to help her understand why this is not like that anymore. Um, and if you

feel like if you genuinely feel like

maybe you've changed or it's different, then have that conversation. And then if not, then I'd be talking with um

I might have to bring a lawyer into it and say, "Hey, this person is not

>> there's such a fine line, Marie, of loving, you know, someone in your family by helping them financially like this and then controlling them." And so I I don't know from her sake if she was on the other line and we talked to her after you know what I mean the story she would give us because my hope would be that it's out of love and care for

you Marie that she says did you were you good were you good with money besides the scam that happened 10 years ago when you when you were raising her how was money >> I u I was born and raised in Germany my

husband was from Missouri he's passed

and uh uh we've always left frugally and

>> Okay. So, really, was it just this one scam that caused all of this?

>> Yeah, but it was it was massive. It was like $600,000. How did it happen?

>> Well, I met this guy on Facebook. He pretended to be someone he was not. And

uh it took almost 3 years. And

>> that it happens more than

>> Yeah, it's very it's very rampant and it's very sad. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry. And I know she did that to help me, to protect me. And >> and that was 10 years ago, Marie.

2016ish.

>> Yes, it happened. It started in 2015.

>> So, what I would do to probably keep the relationship good with your with your daughter. And again, I'm I'm going to assume good in this call that she is doing this out of love and protection for you. >> Is I would sit down with her and I would have a road map to say, "Hey, >> this is what I desire. At the end of this road, I want full access to my money.

I want to be able to purchase a condo because rent keeps going up and up and up and I want to be able to have a place to live that's modest but that I own and whatever that looks like for you, Marie, what the end of it looks like. And then and then I would bring her in and just say, "Hey, >> what steps need to be taken for you to rebuild trust?" because it sounds like you guys have just been functioning in this and she may have she may have decided already. I'm just going to do this till my till forever for the rest of my mom's life.

>> I made that assumption.

>> Um and to and some milestones have a couple of milestones and in the next 12 months what are things that you can be doing um that would give her the confidence because that feels reasonable to me. And again, I'm assuming, Marie, this isn't I'm saying all this putting you in a good light that you're being responsible that you're not off to the side. You know what I mean? Uh, so >> I don't I don't even have access to online banking. She she sends me

screenshots and I I keep a little book here at home. >> Yeah. So, there's a point after 10 years if there's not if there hasn't been other mistakes or other patterns, >> you should be forward.

>> Yes. and for her sake too that she's that she doesn't have to babysit you or you know rolls reverse that she's your mom right for a season I think that's really good but over time >> you probably do want this deal to to dissolve but I would again try to do it with her and like what's the road map >> to get there and >> and then I hate to say but if she's but if she's unwilling to do any of that I would be curious then her motivation at the end >> that's my question and I'd want to make sure that everything's above board.

Yes, on both sides. >> People say not trust me.

That's what I would ask the question. How do we build the trust and how do you do it in a way that can still preserve the relationship? Because if it really is there's like I said, there's probably more to the story on her end, more to the story on your end, Marie. But there probably is um reason for both of you to

feel the way that you feel. Yes. >> And so I like your idea of making that road map because I think in the end that's going to be and if If the 8 months or 12 months happens, then you got to start pushing >> pushing more. >> And maybe there's a transition even for the adult daughter >> to say, "Hey, the next step would be that she does have access to her money, but your name's still on the account for 6 months, so she can actually log in to her own account, right?" Like, that's >> fair.

>> That's very fair.

Marie's side? um versus just having this hard black and white wall of like >> either you do it or I do it. >> Yeah. Yeah.

It could be a both end for a season too, you know. Yeah. >> Um but yeah, that's that's hard. And I and I feel like Marie too, to your daughter's credit, like we get the calls.

We get your daughter calling in and saying, "My mom has been scammed out of 600,000." >> Yes. >> What do I do? How do I step in? Cuz she feels gullible.

She feels really vulnerable. I feel like she could fall into one of these again. And we probably would give her that advice. Sit down with your mom and say, "Mom, I want to be able to help you.

Let me You know what I So, >> and probably what the daughter is thinking is, "Oh my gosh, if something like this happens again, I'll have to take care of you and I don't have the money to do that." So, all of this is really being done out of just of a abundance of caution for the future is what it sounds like. >> Yes, that's what I would hope. >> Kind of assume the best here. Assume everything's on the up and up.

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All right, we have Sydney who's in Omaha, Nebraska. Hey, Sydney, you're on the line.

>> Hey guys. Uh, so my question today, and I know you've taken this call a million times, but um, how do I

persuade, that's not really the right word, but how do I, uh, inform my husband that we no longer need the whole life insurance policy that his parents took out for him as a child?

>> Ah, okay. Um, you don't need it because

you think you should do term life or you don't need it because you guys are self-insured just from where you are financially?

We uh each have term life policies on

one another. >> Oh, okay.

So, we're good to go.

>> What's his reason for keeping the whole life?

>> So, we actually talked about that recently. Um it just gives him like a piece of mind. He will be 32 in April

and the death benefit on this thing is like 17,000.

Um >> is he paying anything into it?

No, it's just like growing or just

sitting. I don't really know. >> And it's been growing since he was a kid and there's only $17,000 in it.

>> Yes. >> If it's not costing you anything, what does it matter if it's just sitting there growing?

>> Yeah. You know, that's a fabulous question. Uh one that I have asked myself. Um I do know when he was a kid

his dad is in pharmaceuticals and there was a handful of times where um he would be out of work and things and they were on Medicaid and so I think it's just like >> that extra layer of security whereas I'm

like >> we could take the cash value which isn't a ton. It's like three or $4,000 >> and >> use that >> for what?

Um, well, so I mean ultimately paying off debt. It's I'm trying to win the war here rather than the battle.

>> But you do have debt to pay off.

>> We do. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. That's that's more what I was getting at. Is it just like a why do we need this? We don't need to get rid of it. Or could you really use the cash?

Um, >> well, here's what's frustrating, Sydney.

This is how bad of an investment whole life is. Okay, so let's just pretend that they opened it up when he was a baby. He's 32 now. Okay, 32 years it's

grown to $17,000. If you put $17,000

into the market right now, in 30 years

instead of it just becoming another 70,000 you would have $1.1 million.

So that's how crappy of an invest like it's not even an investment. Like it's not it's horrible horrible. So my

motivation would be like, let's actually put our money in something that's working that will actually work for us and not grow at a snail's pace. And if something really were to happen to him, they're going to keep a lot of it. You know what I mean? You don't even get the full death benefit always. So it is Oh,

it's such a bad it's such a bad product.

Um, so from just the common sense perspective, I'd be like, wouldn't you want to move 17,000 over to a a

legitimate investment? Like absolutely.

you know, not that you can cuz you're going to have to surrender the policy so you won't get that. Um, but for me, I'm like, I just want to have things in my life financially that make sense. Like, this make this doesn't even make sense.

Um, so not only could you use the cash to start paying off debt, but also let's be smart with where we're putting our money and keeping quote unquote $17,000 in a whole life policy that's not growing basically >> is not wise. >> Well, what's the what's the debt you're trying to pay off?

>> Yeah. So, um, a little bit of everything. So, uh, like I said, I'm trying to win the war rather than the battle. So, my husband, he would sleep better at night if we had a month's worth of expenses saved at all times.

>> Is it cuz your your regular income?

>> No, no, it's just like what if the furnace goes out kind of a thing. Um,

and so this getting rid of this whole life policy would allow us to basically sh up the savings account and then immediately go towards paying extra towards um our debt. >> How much do y'all have in savings right now?

>> Uh, in savings we've got 4,400.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, go ahead. >> Well, I was going to ask what's a month's worth of expenses?

>> Six. >> Six. >> Okay. So you in your mind you're thinking, okay, if I cause him to get rid of this policy, which he doesn't which he doesn't want to get rid of, but if I take that money and give him what what he wants, which is a month's worth of expenses, that's better than nothing at all. That's you winning the war.

>> Okay. Um >> Well, winning the war would be him getting on track with the baby.

>> Right. Right. Right. And debtree I I understand. I understand. Okay. Okay.

And then after you did that and after that he's like now we can go buck wild and pay off this debt. Is that what he's agreed to?

>> More or less. Yeah. >> What's the less?

>> Um it would just like we're not obviously following the baby steps to a tea. Um you know that would be only having $1,000 in our savings. But is there another is there another part that he's already said I'm not going to do that or was that really cuz if you're telling me this is the only thing he asked of me Jade he just this will make him feel better and then everything else we're off to the races I probably wouldn't argue much. I'd be like hey do it and then maybe over time >> whole life policy makes you feel good but we're going to we're going to start moving.

>> Yeah. But and if you told me that I'd be like great if but if you tell me hey actually it's probably going to be this was just one of many battles and I'm just trying to get over this hump then I'd say we have more conversations to have. I love that you're trying to make progress. I'd probably go ahead and do I'd probably make that deal.

Um Yeah. >> How how much debt do you guys have, Sydney, to pay off?

>> Uh about 180. Um the bulk of that my

husband uh went to law school, so we've got about 110 there. Uh we've got about

15 on a car and then uh just shy of 14

on private loans that he took to take the bar. Um and then my student loans

are 37. >> Okay. Well, how long ago, Sydney, did you start listening to the show and wanting to work a new financial plan, The Baby Steps? Yeah, probably uh last

May I had heard of Dave in the personal finance class I took in high school and then a good friend of mine her and her husband followed the baby steps uh which

is mindboggling cuz they are uh Catholic missionaries and I'm like how how did

you you know do all of this and essentially they just >> it was the baby steps that helped it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um okay. How old are you guys?

I am, how old am I? I am uh I'll be 30

this year and my husband will be 32. So, >> Okay, great. Can Can I ask another quick question? I'm just trying to get a sense of him. If you said to him tomorrow, "Hey, uh let's pretend you did the thing with the whole life policy and put the month aside." And then you said to him, "Hey, I've really been looking at our car. I think that cuz I I looked and found that if we sell it, we can make $5,000 and not have the payment anymore.

And then we can take that $5,000 and buy a junker car." Right? another aspect of the baby steps. If you told him that, what would he say?

>> So, we've had that uh conversation before and he's like, "Absolutely not." Okay. >> Um, >> so, Sydney, I hate to say it. I And we have we don't have a lot of time, so I just feel like I got to like get it say it to you. I I think you guys have way of a bigger issue happening of being on the same page financially than a whole life insurance policy.

>> And I wish that was just it, but as we start peeling back on this, you guys aren't on the same page. And it's it's I

don't want to say it's impossible. It's just >> it'll take a long time. >> Really hard for you to be the one, Sydney, that pulls him through this process and that to make progress. And

so you guys need to sit down tonight and you need to tell him, Sydney, how you're feeling and what's going on inside of you because it's not just a whole life policy. That that would feel good if we if he just cashed that out. That that's great. >> You're you have $180,000 in debt. Like that's terrifying. Is that scary?

Oh, yeah. >> Yes. Okay. So, talk about that, Sydney.

Talk about what you're feeling. The the

sleep that you're not able to get because you're stressed. You're scared if something happens to you. Do you guys have kids?

>> We do. We have uh she's almost two.

>> Okay. Yes. And and so I'm like the the

weight of this whole issue of just your entire financial picture is weighing on you and you're trying which I applaud you to make a little progress here and there but it's not going to do much Sydney. It really won't unless you guys sit down together and say hey we are in a marriage and we've committed our lives to be a team together and we're going to tackle every every area of life together. in-law issues, parenting issues, and our money issues. And we're gonna be a team.

The money is the problem. The debt out there is the problem. You're not the problem. Looking at him and and Sydney, you're not the problem.

And you're really not going to make a ton of progress progress, Sydney, until that happens. And I would push and fight for that for you to be heard and in what you're wanting because it does not sound like he's going to do much in this process.

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And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last, and that means regular, proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer, and they've been absolutely great.

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All right. Caleb from Indianapolis, Indiana is on the line. Hey, Caleb.

>> Hi there. Me and my wife are on baby step four debtree and are looking at buying a house and we're having a disagreement about how much we should have as a down payment. Oh, well, congratulations for getting so far. Well done on paying off debt and getting ready to buy a house. That's exciting.

What are you looking to spend? >> Thank you.

>> So, we have about 90 grand sitting in a mutual fund and a good starter house in the area is around 150 grand. What she

wants to do is spend 50 grand uh no, she

wants to leave 50 grand um in the mutual fund and we would have 30 grand as a down payment and 10 grand for closing cost. I want to use the full amount so we can have an 80 grand down payment.

>> Okay. >> We do it her way. We're following your guys' rule. The payments would be around 25% of our combined income on a fixed

15-year fixed. >> What's the reason >> The reason I'm willing to do the full 80 grand is so that in the future we at least have the opportunity to live off a single income. And I feel like that would make it easier for a baby six.

>> Okay, I see what you're saying. So, you're want to put 80. She's wanting to put a total of 50. Did I understand that? >> Uh she wants to leave 50 in. So it' be 30 grand as a down payment, 10 grand for closing cost and fees and all that.

>> So me looking at this right quickly, uh your way the payment's around 972. Her way it's around 1,400.

>> I I believe so. Yeah. >> Okay. And your thought is we can go to a one income uh household later on if we so choose >> or at least to have the opportunity of that. We don't have any kids yet, but we're wanting to start trying within the next couple of years. And >> um Caleb, what is she wanting to do with the 50 grand in the mutual fund? She wants to leave it. What What is that for for her?

>> Uh she just wants to leave it. Um she views the mutual fund as more of an investment. It feels like it would grow more there >> than it would in the house. She's very frugal. Um and a large purchase is just

uncomfortable for her. Mhm. So there's like there's like an extra safety net for her in a in a way >> to have that to have that available.

Okay. >> I actually I'm with you, Caleb. I think that that I would rather do that. I think there's more security once you have a home. It becomes the number one thing that you want to protect if you ever uh hit hard times. And so I kind of

like the idea of saying, "Hey, if we do this, our mortgage will be so low that even if only one of us were working, it would be okay." And that feels way more secure in my mind than having >> some money floating on the internet.

>> Money just floating. >> Um, how much do you guys make a year, Caleb?

>> Uh, combined around 80 grand. I just got a promotion. >> Okay, great. How old are y'all?

>> I'm 26 and she's 22.

>> Oh, wow. >> You guys are youngans. >> Y'all are so young. Um, okay. I I always

hate giving like a gray answer because I know people want like a black and white. Like J. Yeah, Jade said she would do your way. I would probably say I would lean your way too, Caleb.

Like if someone We just got this question on money and marriage. They were gifted a big inheritance and they were like, "Should we just throw it all at the house or should we use some for investing?" And we're like, >> "Yeah, just attack the house because you have all the time in the world to invest." Yes. >> You know, every single year you guys can open up a Wroth.

retirement. So, my caveat my caveats are

you sound very buttoned up, Caleb. you sound like you love running your Excel sheet and your numbers. Um, and sometimes when we're so in the numbers and so in a formula, we forget about life. And I'm just curious if she sees like we're going to have to replace a car soon, like we're going to have to do a couple of big purchases and having the cash available to help us do those things smoothly would be wise, right?

Like I don't know if that's the case, but if that's something that's in her head, that's good to know. Either way,

either option, you guys are going to be fine, Caleb. I mean, I really do believe that. I think that you guys um you could follow the Yep. the 5% 20% down and be

fine. You could throw way more at close to 50% of it and be fine. Um but at the

end of the day, I would probably choose team Caleb. um just because I like having a lower payment and you guys just have so much time on your side to save and invest >> and that um >> and it does free up uh four, you know, 450 a month to save >> 500 bucks way more quickly so that if there was something like a vehicle or all of those things that it would be nice to have a chunk of cash for, you could do it fairly quickly.

>> That's right. Yep. Or maybe you'll meet in the middle too, Caleb. you know, leave, I don't know, 25 in or something.

I don't know, leave a little bit in just for her >> to have a little bit of that security if she wants. So, yeah, y'all can meet in the middle and be great. Um, but either side, I think you you'll be fine. I mean, you guys are so young and you're so on target that I'm like, I think you guys you're going to be fine.

>> So, final ruling, there's no wrong answer, but if we if we were forced to decide, we'd go with the lower >> the lower payment, therefore higher down payment. >> Yep. >> Yep. That's it.

>> All right. I love it. Thanks for the call. That's a good one.

>> Final answer.

>> All right, we've got Katie who's in Billings, Montana. Hey Katie, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Excellent. How can we help today?

>> Great. So, I am um

so confused when it comes to the world of investing. My husband and I um were

not in debt thankfully and we have um

been able to save up about $500,000 in the bank. Um >> Wow. Well done. >> I contribute I contribute $500 monthly

into a Roth. My husband does not have one. Um, and the investing, I guess you

could say, that we do is just in CDs in

the bank at 3.75% and we have about 200,000 in that. But >> okay, >> other than that, that's it because it feels safer to me. And I Is that foolish? >> Well, let me make sure I understood this right. I thought you said you had 500,000 in the bank, but then you said 200,000 in CDs. So, some of it's just sitting freely and some of it's in the CDs, or is that in addition, too? Some of it's just in savings accounts. Yeah.

>> Got it. Okay. >> Wow. Why are you guys averse to investing? What happened that made you feel squeamish?

>> I guess nothing happened. Um it just

it's foreign to us.

>> Yeah. >> And what you don't know can be scary. >> And when it Exactly. And when it comes to retirement, like I said, I do put $500 $500 a month um from my paycheck

into a Roth account for myself, but >> you you don't see that money until I'm close to 60 years old. And I sure >> um a CD seems a little bit safer because it's a 6 month 12 month return.

>> Yeah. Katie, how old are you guys?

>> Um I'm 31 and my husband's 37.

>> Okay, so just to do a little calculation for you. Oh my gosh. Are you ready for this? This is going to probably make you sick. ready for it. >> Okay, so I just put really quickly in if

I if you just dropped $500,000 in the market, right? This and and an average I put 12% rate of return. Some people get mad at that. I'm going to just do it for fun because it was way more than that the past couple years. There's some down years, but the past couple years have been fantastic. So, I'm going to put 12% average. It's actually been more than that, but I'm going to just leave that.

Um, and if you did that right now at 31,

um, by the time you're 67, if you just set just let this money grow, you would have $36 million.

>> Okay. >> Wow. >> So, if you kept it in now, if you kept it in the CD, which is averaging 1.7%

interest right now, I'm going to bump it up to two because I'm feeling gracious to the CDs. >> You'd have you'd have 1 million. You'd have 1 million. >> Sure.

So, so >> you're leaving $35 million on the table, Katie. So, >> what we have to realize is we need to understand this intimidating part of money, which is investing. And I get that there's a lot of >> people use diversification, index funds, S&P 500, you know, you're like, what is what is all like, yeah, what does this all mean? >> Um, so I would because you guys have done so well.

I mean, >> it's crazy. >> It's Yeah, >> crazy that you've saved this much. I mean, this is it's amazing. You guys are incredible.

At 31 years old, >> I would sit down with a Smart Vest pro in your area. Um, when when we get off the phone, Christian will pick up and he can kind of direct you on the website where to go. Um, but you could, but I would meet Katie, meet with two or three Smart Vest pros in your area, okay?

from them because these are the and these have all been vetted. So these are great people, but you're going to naturally connect and feel more comfortable probably with one or two over another, right? >> And that's really important this process cuz anyone that's going to help you kind of push the buttons and investing, you want to feel really, really good about >> and I would ask every question that you

can think of. Don't feel like, oh my gosh, I feel stupid asking this. I should know none of that. And and actually start to get the basics and learn what does this mean?

What does it look like if I invest in an index fund or a mutual fund? What types of funds are out there? I mean, there's so much you could be doing with this money to make you money that's it may kind of feel risky, but at the same time, compared to what you would make on the other end, >> absolutely.

The ups and downs are real, but the overall picture is uh pretty bright. So,

that's what I would do. Katie, if you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry, a biblical community-based way for Christians to share each other's medical bills.

That means no enrollment deadlines, and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self-employed, between jobs, or you just need something that fits your budget better. CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community. And many members save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional health insurance.

And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well.

credit towards their first month of membership. Get started at chmin ministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org/budget and promo code Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. It's still me, Jay Warshaw, with Rachel Cruz going straight to the phone lines where we got Jeff in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Hi, Jeff.

>> Hey, Rachel. Jade, how are you? An honor to be on the show. >> Awesome. We're glad to have you. I discovered uh the Ramsey about the Ramsey show about six months ago and I've been following a lot of your principles and uh just have a question.

Got a question for you. >> Okay. >> So I'm 37 next month. My wife is 31

and we have been putting away money

investing in retirement uh investing in you know future growth for ourselves to live comfortably later on. And we in our

community, the children live next to the parents, relatively close next to the parents. And we have bought three

residential single family residential homes for our childrens to be able to live next to us. We got three girls.

>> Yeah, we bought three homes for our We want We want our girls to live next to us. So, we bought the three residential homes so they can live relatively walking distance to us. >> Okay. How old are the girls?

>> So, the girls are eight, six, and four.

>> Wow. You got started early with the purchases. I mean, >> yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We definitely wanted to start early and um we got great interest rates. We bought it when uh the co w rates are around in the twos and in the threes. So, right now we got tenants there that covered the that covered the rent until uh you know it's time to give it to them when we feel the time is right.

>> And my question goes like this.

will not want to live because the area is changing and most likely the kids will not live next to us.

>> Sure. Yeah.

>> So, what happens is we find ourselves in an interesting position. Right now, we have tenants that cover the mortgage and we have a little bit of extra every month, like $2,200 extra from the three homes every month. And we've been

doubting ourselves that this is the right path going forward because we are thinking to cash out these three homes, sell them, cash out $1.65 million

from, you know, basically what the down payments we put in. >> Yeah. What what you get out of equity out of the three? >> The equity is 1.65. Take this 1.65 minus

the taxes we would have to pay on that, which is about let's say we'll be end up with like 13 or something like that.

>> Yeah. and put the 13 into an S&P mirrored fund where let's say 20 years

down the line. >> I love this.

>> That grows to a huge number.

>> Yes. >> And then if they want to live in XYZ area, okay, here's a million dollars. Go buy the house. A >> genius. A genius move.

>> No. So my question is, is that the right move or should they just let the house keep on being paid off by tenants?

>> What? Um, >> do you guys own your do do you guys own your house, Jeff, you and your wife, or do you still have a mortgage on it?

>> No, we actually have a 2% rate. Yeah, we we are um we own our house straight up.

We actually have like 1.3 equity in our own home. >> Okay. But And you don't owe anything on it?

>> No, we do. It's worth about >> What do you owe on it currently today?

>> 368. >> 368. But it's worth 1.3.

>> No, no, it's worth about 1.8. Holy smokes. Way to go.

>> Maybe one nine even. Yeah. >> You know what I would do? If you're offloading the three houses for the the kids, I'd take a little of that money.

If you said the whole thing you'll walk away with 1.3, I'd probably take some of that and I'd pay off your house in full and then I'd invest the other million.

>> And you will >> and invest and then invest your mortgage payment back into this fund for the girls. >> Uhhuh. >> Even though Even though the Now I I've listened to Ramsey, I know you guys say you pay off that mortgage no matter what. So my question is I got a 2% rate.

>> Yeah. >> With 15 years exactly to go even though it's 2% pay that off.

>> Yes. Because you're the guy who would take the full mortgage payment that you were paying and you'll invest it in that you'll invest it. I can tell that you would do it. Um >> you'd rather make 12% than 2%. You know

>> right. Right. I hear that. I hear it.

>> Yeah. And Jeff too.

>> But my question is would you sell the three home? That's my question. I would >> you you would >> I would only because the reason that you said you purchased them >> was for your kids to live in them so that they could be close to you. That was the number one reason and that's the only reason I heard by the way. Um and so much life and and when you told me their ages 4, 6, and 8, so much can happen in that time. Number one, like you said, the neighborhood can go down.

Number two, there are three different women who will have three different lives that could go in any direction. I would never want this for you, Jeff, cuz I know how much you love him. But she may she may meet a meet a meet a Mike

and move move in with her husband, you know what I mean? Somewhere >> or you get a different job and you want to move. Like there's so much life that can happen over the course of the next 18 years or so. And so for that reason,

I think you'd probably get a better bang

for your buck and have more freedom with the type of investment that you were talking about. And when you told us the spreads on the rent, it wasn't all that great. >> Yeah. Either way. >> No. Like like No, we don't end up making money at the end of the year because here in HVAC breaks and educ.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, I have clarity on that. I have one more question. I'm sorry. I'll make it quick. Go ahead.

>> What is the right So again, I'm 37 next month. My wife is 31 32 next month. So,

what is the right age to write a will

>> today?

Really? >> Yeah. Today because you've got especially because you've got minor kids and there is a big part of the will that's going to decide what would happen to those kids if God forbid something happened to you and your wife. If you don't make a will today, the courts will decide that. And that is that for that reason alone. There's many other reasons, but for that reason alone, I would be sitting with a lawyer today.

>> It's a mess. Yeah. Jeff, one of the Ramsey person that hosts the show, George Camel, he has my favorite line.

He's like, "If you hate your family, don't do a will." Because because it's so it it it creates what would be a horrible situation. Your whole family

trying to untangle, you know, your whole life and and from the from the financial sense and try to figure out what what is happening financially, what's happening with the girls. I mean, it just it can create so much stress. But when it's all laid out in a will, if you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms, Jeff, you could you can do a state specific will with them.

your estate might be a little bit more complicated once you guys get into it because you own multiple properties and different things. So, you may actually want to sit down with an estate attorney just to draft one up. Um, but I yes, I

would do a will today and and I just want to applaud you, Jeff. This is such a success story like what you and your wife have done because we talk about changing your family tree and that's in

the way you view money, the way you handle money, the role that money plays.

And when you're deeply in debt and you're living paycheck to paycheck and life is so stressful with money, that's the environment your kids grow up in. But you guys, Jeff, have made such great decisions. Your girls not only are in a an environment that's peaceful when it comes to money, but you're also going to literally live out changing their family tree. Like if you bought your girls a home that is >> and they never had a mortgage and then they invested that mortgage payment for the rest of their life and then their kids that that's generational wealth working for the good.

Do you know what I mean?

was such a drive to really really really

and when I discovered the Ramsey show I'm like oh my gosh there's a match made in heaven. They taught my language.

>> I love that. I love that. I'm so proud of you. >> And your kids, they're going to be so much better for it. I can tell you're going to raise them to be able to actually be great stewards of this money and do exactly what you've done, which is continue that legacy for the family.

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All right, let's head back to the phone lines where we have Chris who's in Montana. Big Sky, what's going on, Chris?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

>> Um, so I make about uh 4,500 a month uh

gross conservatively. Uh monthly bills including my car around 3,200. And after

uh recent divorce, I live with my parents paying 400 a month while I kind of stabilize my financial life. Um, in that time I've lost over 180 pounds, had a major skin removal surgery, and I'm kind of getting back to a point where I'm feeling disciplined and focused.

>> But my biggest concern is my daughters.

>> So, uh, both of them have a genetic condition that's called Dicer 1 syndrome. Uh, my youngest is clean so far, but my oldest has cysts in her lungs, kidneys, and brain.

>> Oh, wow. I'm so sorry.

>> And we're having to monitor that very closely. Uh so I'm trying to find the

balance where uh in the event of a very possible medical issue, I have a comfortable savings buffer beyond that

base $1,000 emergency fund and where the balances between how much should I have there just in case cuz we regularly go from Missoula to Seattle Children's Hospitals for the girls, which is about eight hours each way. How how how often

do you foresee going to do they have

them removed every once in a while? Is that how it works or what's that going to look like for you long term medically? >> So, right right now it's just monitoring and making sure that they don't grow any more than they have. She's got one in her left kidney that has grown at a concerning rate. So they've got medical boards meeting on what's the best decision because >> I mean yeah you can operate with just one kidney but >> sure >> if we take one out and the other one's already got an issue.

>> Yeah. How much Chris um on average do

you think you guys are spending a month on this

>> or is it or is it or is it every like four to five months something comes up or every eight months? What's the calendar look like? It's about It's about four times a year that we have to make this trip and each trip is around probably $600 to $800.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, it doesn't you don't hit your deductible. It's just straight out of everything comes straight out of pocket.

>> Um, so they are so that's all travel expense and hotels. They're under Montana Medicaid. So, they're taken care of by the state. >> Okay. So, what otherwise it would be >> Yeah. So, what I probably would do because how much debt do you have?

Um, including the car. Uh, total sub 30,000. >> 30,000. Okay. And you're are I'm sorry.

You're divorced.

>> I am. Yeah. >> Okay. Is your wife that that $600 to $800 is that um split between you guys

or is that what you're paying and then she's paying the same amount too? What does that look like?

>> Um I generally fund it. I'm in a better financial position. Um and then she'll help with a hotel every other night kind of thing. >> Okay. I gotcha. Okay.

>> Um, so what I would probably do, cuz I mean Jade and I are both moms and I'm like, I would do >> anything for my kids. They're they're number one. Paying off debt's amazing and we want you to be able to do that, but taking care of our kids and making sure that Yes.

>> So, absolutely. >> What I would probably do is have a different account. Um, that would be

kind of like my the girls account, if you will. >> And I would make sure I have $800 in it.

And then when you use it for a trip, my

I would pause the debt snowball, refill that, and then go back to the debt snowball. But I would have that 800 continuously in an account, even if that means pausing the debt snowball for a bit, um, and throwing money at that to

replenish that account. But that's the one I would keep consistent. And then if something changes, Chris, if you guys get a different diagnosis or you see she's going have to have surgery and there's going to be more expenses either on the travel side or anything medical, that's when we would pause the baby. That's when we'd pause baby step two and and build back up a bigger emergency fund. That's probably what I would do just because it seems consistent. But >> yeah. Um how tell me about the the state

paying for it. Is there um is there an income that if you hit a certain income the state will no longer pay?

>> Yeah, I'm I'm sure there is. And they go through uh their mom with that side of things. >> I was going to say, is that on your side? >> Okay. So, your income can go up as much as you want and it won't affect their care. >> Yeah. Then they still get consistent medical care with Montana. >> Okay. Good. So on your end, I would then be doing, secondary to what Rachel said, I'd be doing everything I can to blow my income up as far as I can. How long is

this deal going to be going with your parents?

The $400 a month.

>> I is they're very flexible. They'll I

have it as long as I need it to get up on my feet. >> Okay. And in your line, like what's your thought in your mind on that?

>> I would really like to be out of there in two, three years at the absolute most. >> Okay. Okay. And you guys just split custody of the girls. Is it how does that work? Every >> 50/50. Yeah. So Sunday to Sunday, I have them a week at a time and then they go back to mom. >> Okay. So I'd be looking for a side hustle or something that when that week that they're not with you that you can just go crazy on because I think for you

having that fund for medical and then getting this debt paid off that is going to relieve so much stress. like there's enough stress with the diagnosis of this that getting the financial side in order as quickly as possible is going to do a lot for your soul, >> you know? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's what I would do.

That's what I would do. >> Yep. I'm sorry, Chris. You guys are going through that.

It's horrible. So heartbreaking, >> very tough. But you've got a plan now and that can give you a lot a lot of peace. >> And who you're going to be even in the next two years, Chris, what you've done so far from a health perspective is unbelievable.

Losing 180 lbs. Like you are amazing. It's amazing. So, keep keep on the track cuz you're Yeah, you're creating a whole new life for yourself, Chris.

We're proud of you. >> So, good. All right. Thanks for the call.

We've got Jackson next in Boisee, Idaho. Hi, Jackson.

>> Uh, hey, uh, it's good to be on here.

Kind of didn't expect to be on here, but this is awesome. >> Cool. We're glad you're glad you're here. >> How can we help today? >> Yeah, it's really cool. Uh, yeah. So, I um, I'm getting out of the military. I'm 100% disabled, permanent in total. And so I get um the VA healthcare um for free. However, you know, I do want to have a family at some point. And I've heard a lot about like um HSAs. And my

kind of question is um should I kind of open up another account or open up get other um insurance for the sake of an HSA or should I wait until kind of that that bridge comes for?

>> You don't have the family yet? You're not married or with kids yet?

>> Uh yeah. I mean, just are you just saying for the for the possible ability to invest in the HSA? Is that what you're talking about when you said you've heard of them?

>> Yeah, I've heard about like the the tax advantages and stuff and so I kind of figured it'd be good um thing investment wise, but also like the health insurance thing. >> I mean, well, right now you're fully covered by VA, right?

>> Yes. >> So, you don't need the coverage and your family is not here yet for them to need the coverage. And so then when you think about it from an investment point of view, it really is on down the line from other ways to invest. I would rather you invest money in a Roth IRA if you could or something like that.

Um before I'd go to an HSA. It's kind of just like once you have it, it's very nice to have, but it's not something you have to seek out and go get for that purpose.

that reason, I I would say you're just fine as you are. >> Yeah. As is. >> Yeah. Yeah. It it is a great option.

like Jade said, if you're using it above healthcare for an investment, but that's after you've maxed out, um whether it's 401ks, you know, >> Roth IAS, I mean, all of it. It's just another investment vehicle. But, >> uh, at this point in life, I think you Yeah, I probably wouldn't I probably wouldn't hassle with it because you have great healthcare with the VA.

>> Okay. Well, that that makes sense. That answers the question. I appreciate you guys helping. >> Awesome. Thank you so much for the call.

It's a good question. >> Yeah. Um, HSAs, you know, they're they're really great. Like you said, they've got that triple tax advantage.

And a lot of people, if you know you don't need to access the money for health, yeah, go ahead and invest it.

Usually, you can invest it uh there's usually a minimum of like $1,000 that kind of has to stay liquid and then you can invest the rest and over time um

it'll just convert into a normal like IRA. You don't even have to use it uh for medical expenses, which is it is it is nice to have that. But if an HSA is

not the right uh a high deductible plan is not right for you, I would not get the plan simply to have access to >> to an HSA. That's right. Absolutely.

>> Because saving and your emergency fund and stuff can cover some medical things that are out of pocket where the HSA may step in and do that if you were using it for medical purposes. Um so there's ways around it for sure. It's great if you have it. Uh it's just kind of another tool to invest in, but definitely not necessary and probably wouldn't move mountains for it. >> No, I definitely wouldn't move mountains for it. Thank you so much for the call.

This is the Ramsay Show.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die.

Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

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The truth is we wish that we could get to every call and every question here on the Ramsay Show. So, but we can't. I mean, there's a limited amount of time.

We have segments and we go to commercial breaks. So, if it ever seems like we cut you off, it's cuz you got to make that clock. But if you do have a question and you want an answer for your situation, you can always head over to our website and use Ask Ramsay. Ask Ramsey is our

free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsy principles and you'll get an answer that really is the Ramsay way.

So, you don't have to worry about it.

You know, if you go to, I don't know, like Open AI, you could get a lot of things mixed in there. But if you go to ask Ramsay, it will be Ramsay advice the way we would give it on the show. So ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Love that. All right, next is Katie in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Katie, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um my name is Katie. Yeah, I just wanted to see I recently got a $2.6 $6

million settlement and I just wanted to

figure out what I should kind of do with the money. Um >> Oh, wow. >> I have a mortgage and I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should pay that off or not.

>> Yeah. What was it from the settlement?

>> Um it's a lawsuit.

>> Is it like But you're okay. There's nothing. Is there anything we should know about you going forward or you're all good?

>> I'm all good. Okay. So, no ongoing medical issues or anything out of it?

>> No, not yet. >> Okay. Okay. Um, how much is your mortgage?

>> My mortgage is 190,000. That's how much

we have on the principal and I'm at 2.75%.

>> Okay. Is is it just you or do you have a family? >> Um, I have a husband. I don't have any children. >> Okay. >> And my husband is a student right now and he's working on becoming an air traffic controller. >> Oh. How old are you guys?

>> Um, I am currently 30 and my husband is 31. >> Okay. And do you guys have any other consumer debt?

>> Um, let me see. We have 105 from student

loans for me. Um, I'm under >> Okay. >> And then my husband, um, he's going to be about 150 total.

>> Okay, >> great. And then but no car payments, credit cards, anything? Um, cars is 25K

for me and then my husband is he only has 76K left on his.

>> Okay. Credit cards.

>> No credit cards. >> Okay. So, my biggest question would be

before we get to the 2.6 million. Um, let's pretend that 2.6 million, whatever

happened to caused that to come your way never happened. Were you already on the track to say, you know what, this debt is kind of crushing us. We need to we

need to do something about it. Had you already kind of been looking at that or kind of tell us how you arrived at calling calling the show. Was it just the 2.6 million?

>> Yeah. So, I mean, basically, it's the 2.6, fix. But in in all reality, uh my

husband once he graduates from school, our plan was to immediately start attacking that as much as we possibly could. Okay. >> Um I have been working 60 hours a week

currently. Um and I make about 120k

annually right now.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. So, as long I I just wanted to before we started saying you need to take this money and pay off the debt, I wanted to make sure like philosophically we aligned on the idea that debt is no

moving forward. If it gets paid off that we're not going back into the habit of taking out debt for stuff we want.

>> Oh, absolutely not. No.

>> Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. Because sometimes you can come in with a lawsuit um like this or inheritance and just in

one sweeping motion be completely debtree even your mortgage, which is amazing and that's where we're going to guide you to, but >> it comes back. But if that behavior, yes, hasn't been changed or the belief system hasn't been changed, you'll be right back into debt, you know, um and how quickly, >> I mean, 2.6 million is amazing, but yes, we just want to make sure that you can um yeah, sustain a lifestyle that still makes sense. Um so, yeah. So, um yeah,

Katie, I mean, what I would do is Yeah, it looks like you guys will have close to $200,000 in debt, not including the mortgage. If you include the mortgage, that's around 400,000 after all the student loans and everything. So, I would pay everything off. That would leave you 2.2 million.

And >> okay. >> Yeah, there's really three things that you can do with money and I would do all three at some capacity. Uh you can give it, you can save it, and you can spend

it. So, I would look um to see, you

know, what are things that you and your husband really care about. I don't know if you are someone of, you know, that practices a certain faith or if there's things in the community that you guys I mean as a nurse I'm sure you see a lot like so I don't I don't know what that looks like for you but >> any level of we go to church every Sunday. >> Okay. Yeah.

So any level of generosity um is going to be I think an important part of this picture just because um the practice of that I think is just it's an amazing thing and it changes who you guys are. So I would be giving >> I do have a question about that actually. >> Yeah.

>> Y >> but everyone has seems to have a different opinion on gifting money to family because they don't want it to turn into a transactional relationship and they don't want it to change the relationship dynamic. What is your opinion on that? because my husband and I are both, you know, we both want a gift, but we want to make it so that it's not like a reoccurring thing or an expectation with family, you know.

>> Yes, that's I think it's great advice because you can easily >> Yes. get into that where it becomes a habit that Katie is suddenly so rich and we can just go to her when we need things. Um, so is is there is there

something that you guys have pinpointed with your families like maybe paying your parents house off or like is there a thing that you're thinking about or you just >> Okay. What what is that? What are you guys thinking about?

>> So, my in-laws u my parents um are

unfortunately not around. Um but my in-laws, we were thinking about um gifting them with a car. Their car is on its last um >> its last leg. Yes. Um and they they need a new one. Um and they're >> so I was thinking about that and then also getting um you know giving my

giving my brother some some money too.

He's got some health issues going on as well. >> Yes. >> So >> yeah, I um I I would be okay with that

with some like very communicated

boundaries around it. I think just the

idea of it just happening, I probably be

a little bit more intentional with it.

>> Um, okay. >> So, I probably would sit down with his parents and just say, "Hey, >> um, you know, we've been put in a position that we're able to do some giving and, um, we would love to help

replace your car." And here is I I

almost would this maybe sound too controlling. I almost would go ahead and just buy it and a and a >> 100% I was going to say >> instead of giving them cash.

>> Um and a very like modest car. Yes.

>> Um but you know but but a good car, right? Like go spend some money on it.

Um >> do your family members know about the 2.6 million? Do they know this happened and that you got a large sum of money?

>> Not at all. And I don't plan on sharing that. >> I think that's great. That's what I was going to say.

So, I think you guys can kind of like sneakily come in and help them in that way. And then your brother, if he has outstanding medical bills and you guys want to pay some or all or whatever you decide, then again, if you can not just give cash, >> pay the bill, >> pay the bill, pay for the pay and get the actual car, you know, that kind of thing I think is helpful.

think that's the way to I Yeah, that doesn't like freak me out. I think >> it doesn't freak. I think you know the person like you know the type of character that someone has where they maybe have the propensity to take advantage or they have the ability to you know you give them an inch and they take a mile and if you know these aren't that sort of this is not that sort of person then I would do that in two seconds. >> Yep. >> And I think it's a great blessing.

>> Yep. >> Really good. >> Yeah. And and then >> thank you very much.

>> Yes. And then investing some too Katie and spend some you know if you guys need some upgrades on some things or you want to take a great trip. Yeah. Um, leave some room for that because you don't need to be working 60 hours a week anymore.

You know, I wouldn't change your work. I would still be contributing and still be going to work. I think that's just good >> in general for a person. Um, >> yeah.

You don't want it to take away your sense of purpose. >> Yes, that's right. You know. >> Yep.

>> So, I could see spending a reasonable amount, like you said, on things that increase your day-to-day quality of life. >> Get Spotify Premium if you haven't already. you know, get some of the enjoyment of life. >> I think that's great to up some of your lifestyle a little bit.

Um, >> yeah, and and just be really intentional, be aware, and then and then again, be sitting down with an investment professional that you guys feel good about and invest a good bit of this money cuz this will take you guys on into Yes. into retirement and completely change your life.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Y refi, a defaulted private student loan. Loans don't go away by ignoring them, but you can face them with a plan. Why refi helps you refinance into low fixed rate payments built around what you can afford so they so that you can take control and get back on the baby steps. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Today's question comes from Daniel in California. He said, "I'm 28 years old and have $100,000 in student loans, car loans, credit cards, and a 401k loan. My girlfriend and I have lived together for three years and recently got engaged.

Would it be better for us to alope and then save for a formal wedding once my debt is paid off, or should I pay off my debt while she saves for the wedding?" She has no debt. I am currently working both full-time and part-time to knock out what I owe.

Oh man, this always hurts my heart. I was on the show with Ken because Ken is like not anti-wedding, but he's like just don't worry like it's fine. It's one day. It's one day. I love a great wedding. Like so it always hurts my heart when I'm like just go alope. But I would Daniel after three years >> I go go tie the knot and then you guys can save up and and pay for a great wedding. So, I would go down to the courthouse, make it what it is, and and

then you guys save up for a fun party, and I think so.

>> I would go get married, >> but again, it kind of hurts my heart a little bit cuz I love a good wedding. >> I do, too. Um, she's she's going to be the one that feels this. >> Yes, probably. Mhm.

>> You know that.

>> But, Godund,

you know what I I'm like, that's going to be another two and a half years possibly depending on what he makes. Um, so I wouldn't wait that long to get married. I would go ahead and get married. >> I wouldn't unless her idea Okay, I could talk about this a little bit more. >> Okay, go. >> Um, if her idea of a formal wedding can

be done for a lot less than what I'm

thinking in my head. And you guys,

what are you thinking? 10 15. >> Yeah, I was Yeah, I was thinking 15 20.

But if you can if you can cash flow it

both of you and maybe it's like she you know with her job can contribute half and you contribute half. I might I might could be okay for that >> and you could do it in like 6 months or something. Yeah. >> Um just because I just feel like she's going to be like wait a second.

>> I know she's got to be bought in.

>> Are you telling me that I can't have my wedding because of your debt? I I I agree. Like sitting in this chair it's right. But if Sam Warshaw came to me back in the day and was like, "First off, I have $100,000 in debt and for

that reason, we're just going to be I

ring." She'd say, "Nope." >> I don't know if I would.

>> That's a good point, though. If you can cash flow this, but I wouldn't wait >> I wouldn't wait longer than than five to six months, though. I would do it quick. >> Agree. I would do this quick because you can have a really nice party. It doesn't have to be in secret, I guess, is what I'm saying. Right. Right.

>> You can have a really nice party and then save up and do another really nice party later on. Yes. So,

>> if you can save for it quick, again, four to five months. >> Yeah. >> Uh then you can Yeah. do the wedding.

But if you guys are just like it's not a big deal to either one of you, um then I

would Yeah. Then I would elope and then you guys can Yep. put your incomes together, pay off that debt faster, and then >> Oh man, that's hard. It is hard, but

yeah, you heard you heard our ideas.

>> Yes, we gave you two options.

>> That's good. All right, we've got Richard who's in Bowling Green, Kentucky, on the line right up the road.

What's going on, Richard?

>> Oh, doing good. Thanks for taking my call. >> Yeah, you bet. How can we help today?

>> Okay. Um, I found uh you guys about a year and a half ago. Um, and just a year ago, I was I'm lucky enough our our guests are thankful enough. I I found me a really good job. I make 140 a year.

>> Good. and we um we kind of made a boo boo. We bought my 16-year-old at the time a car and she's like, "I'm gonna

work. I'm gonna pay for it." Blah blah blah blah. Well, she after about 6 months decided she wasn't going to work.

Now the car is in mine in the wife's name because she was 16 and can't take the loan. >> Sure. How much?

>> And well, at the time it was 23 and now

it's down to 14. We have paid it down to 14,000. >> Okay. My question is, should I sell it

or should I keep it and just finish paying it off? Because I'm in my debt snowball right now and it's like the bill I'm working on right now. It's three more above that and then then I'll be putting all towards that car.

>> How much are you and your wife's vehicles worth?

>> Um, >> what' you spend on those?

>> Well, I spent um I spent 20 on mine and it's paid off and I spent like 28 on hers and it's paid off. >> Okay. And how old is the your daughter now? >> Yeah. Well, she just turned 18 two months ago. >> Okay. I mean, you're you're in the parameter like for your income 140. We'd say no more than half of your annual income in vehicles. So, you're you're right there 20 28 and 23. Um you're

right at the cusp. Um a little bit over, but since the others are paid off, I'm not going to be too much of a tyrant about it. You could keep it um and pay it down. She's 18 now.

>> Yeah, she just turned 18. And have you guys talked to her about taking over the loan?

>> Uh, tried to, but it's like talking to a brick wall. >> Oh, I'm not liking what I'm hearing about this. I have a hard time grateful.

>> Yeah, >> right. Yeah, it's Yeah, she she's got this attitude that she's entitled to it.

And I'm like, >> oh, then sell it in two seconds, >> right? >> She ain't put up with that. Well, and you put your daughter in debt, Richard.

>> I don't like that either.

So, >> and that's what that's what I out of the principal. >> Yeah. If you guys were babys seven, you had tons of money. I would say if you wanted just to pay for it and then say there it's yours, whatever. I don't like the idea of you setting her up with debt. So, I think you sit her down and say, "Sweetie, I'm so sorry. We messed

up. We You said we had a boo boo." Right. So, you said the beginning of the call, right? Uh, not only is the deal

that we had made disintegrated, which I don't blame her entire, she's 16, like the frontal part of her like brain isn't even formed yet. So, you're putting a lot of responsibility on a 16-year-old, which was not very smart. >> How much is the car now, >> right?

>> Um, it's right at 450 a month.

>> That's a lot. How much could you sell it for? If you sold it, what would you get for it? >> Oh, I don't have no idea to be honest with you. I mean, 100% I wouldn't know.

Like I said, it's >> Yeah. So, I would look it up >> 14 on it. >> Yeah. I mean, in a perfect world, it's not upside down. In a perfect world, you'd get 18 and you could buy her a $4,000 car and just call it like a, hey, we did this. >> But yeah, but I would say the two things. Number one, the deal that we made was a bad deal for you. And the

deal we made now goes against the value system on which I think that you should live financially. And because of that, I in good faith, I can't keep you held to

a loan because I don't think that that's the right way to to live with your money. And so it's in our name >> and we're going to sell it. But you but she is 18 so I don't even want to give her the choice to take it on like >> No, I would not transfer this over. It's a Rachel makes a very good point.

On the one hand, you guys were in the wrong for bestowing this life of debt in front of her. >> See that now? And we see that now.

hoping for in this moment. So, I would not want to reward that behavior. I like what Rachel said about kind of going and saying, "Hey, you know what? We said this, that was our mistake, our bad." However, you also haven't shown that you really want a vehicle. And because of how you're acting, it's very hard for us to even uh fund one the correct way, which is in cash for you at this stage.

And so, I I would kind of play both sides of that field. >> She's going to be mad, mad, mad, Richard. So, listen, that's the thing about when you set up a boundary, >> you put up the boundary and then regardless of what that person, how they react, what they say, that's on them at that point. But we you probably know from data points that it's it's not going to be great.

But >> but I really do believe in the long run for her >> it's going to be better. >> It's going to be better. >> It's going to be better. Um and she is going to remember the lesson.

If you to me there's something so big when a parent apologizes and is like I made a mistake and here's what I did. I never should have done that. That sticks with a kid for a very very long time. So, she's going to remember the fact that my parents went into debt and they looked at it and realized it was the wrong thing.

willing to take back my former thing about uh not getting her a car cuz what I wouldn't want to happen is that that lesson getting lost in the the the part where she no longer has a car. Do you know what I mean? So, there's part of me that I'm like maybe I would give her the $5,000 car. Yeah, I probably would. Yep.

>> And then she remembers the bigger lesson. >> She's real pissed. She can go get a car loan on her own and make her own decisions at that point. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's a good one. Thank you for the call.

>> Richard, I hope it goes well. We'll be praying for you.

All

right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and money. I'm still with Rachel Cruz. I'm still Jade Warshaw. >> We're doing it. >> We're still doing it. All right, going back to Dominic who's in Springfield, Massachusetts, I'm guessing on the line.

And what's up, Dominic?

>> Hello, Jada. How are you? >> I'm good. How can we help? Did I get it right? Is MA Massachusetts?

>> Uh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I got a I just have a quick question for you guys. Uh, not too long.

So, um, I have a lot of money investing.

So, like I'm a rookie when it comes to investing. I just started I hired an investor back in September. And, um, I'm watching my investments go as along the way. And um it it doesn't look like my investments are doing as great as I wish I could.

And the other thing is too like I I I think I want to like cash out my investments and cuz like a couple years down the road I'm trying to buy a house and move out of my parents house and I just don't know if um should I cash out the investments or just kind of hope for the best and >> are they retirement? Is it like IRA Roth IRA type stuff?

>> No. So what's the vehicle? >> Well, no. So a lot of my So yeah. No, I do have a 401k but I wouldn't use that for the house. it would. So, I have a lot of my money in the S&P 500.

>> Okay. >> I have $97,000

in what's called Riverbridge and then I have another $135,000

in um like another little fund that they have. It's um it's like it's what it's called a structured note.

>> Okay. And they're just tax is just a taxable brokerage account.

Um, yeah, one of them is like kind of like a brokerage account and then the other one is a it's a I guess like a

um I'm not really so sure how to put it.

The the river bridge is what's um it's a

Nvidia and then Google it's an investment and >> Okay. So, so it's like Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like not just it's not a single stock it's like a lot of them. Yeah.

>> How many together? How many single stocks are in that fund?

Um, I think it's about like 10. I'm not

entirely so sure to be honest.

>> Okay. Okay. So, part of me, um, what I

don't like about what I'm hearing is you're not sure about what you're invested in, which is always a red flag for me because you should understand it

enough to be able to explain it back in a way that is clear. So, part of me um,

and I think you understand facets of it obviously, but there's obviously facets that maybe you're not sure of. Um, so that's thing number one that I'm thinking about. Thing number two I'm thinking about is the fact that you said ultimately you're trying to buy a house and I'm wondering what your timeline is for that because um that that does play

into whether or not I would keep this or what I would do with this money going forward. So what's your timeline for the house >> like within like the next like couple years? I'm really interested in moving out of my parents house and I was thinking whether I should rent or buy and I am looking more towards to buying because I feel like I can afford it. I do have a good chunk of change but >> um yeah I um >> How much are you making a year?

>> I'm my my full-time position I make uh like 75k a year. >> Okay. How did you save up all this money? I mean it's like almost >> 2005,00 is um >> Yeah. No, I I'm a I'm a really frugal person. I don't really spend my money.

Yeah. >> And before too, I started working full-time. I had a like back in high school, I was working little part-time job, you know, I was pretty much always saved money and never really spent.

>> Good for you. Well, if you're thinking about there's two parts to this. So, first off, I based off of what you've said, the way this money is invested, it's not invested the way we would tell you to do it here, uh, the Ramsay way.

It sounds like your your 135 is probably

mostly in bonds or something like that with the structured note that you have.

And then the other is in index funds, which is fine. We would teach you if you are going to invest your money to do it in mutual funds against across four different types. And it doesn't sound like you have it invested that way. So I would think about rolling that money into the proper investments versus cashing it out per se. Um, now if you

were ready to buy a house immediately, I would say you could go ahead and pull it out. But if you really are thinking, hey, this is two to three years down the line. What I'd be doing is I'd be meeting with a smart investor pro and saying, hey, I have this money invested.

The way the the reason that your return is not very great is it sounds like you have a lot of bonds with that 135 invested. That's why it's probably going very slowly. Um, and I would say I don't like the way this money is invested. I don't believe it's invested the money the Ramsay way and that it's getting me the best um rate of return. And then I would have them roll it over into better funds. Um, and then yeah, I just let it

sit and grow for the next however many years until you're ready. And just understand that when money is invested for 5 years or less, >> you may or may not, you know what I mean? That 5year point is kind of when we see like there is a locked in um um

you your money has grown. There's a higher rate that it will have grown by 5 years versus if it's less than 5 years, there's more um fluctuation within that.

So, just know that. And even like the Riverbridge account, like I I would almost feel more okay with that if you said there were 50 individual stocks in there, but the 10 >> 10 feels really limited. A lot of risk

in that. >> To be honest with you, um Riverbridge, I think it is a lot more stocks. It's just um I so I hired So I don't do this by myself. I hired a professional.

He's really good. I I I like him a lot. And um I he answers all my questions when I ask him. And >> But your returns your returns aren't what you said they should be.

That's a red flag for me. >> Yeah. I Yeah. Um I don't know if it's really necessarily his fault.

It's just I guess it's just the stock market. It's just what I'm >> Well, it depends on what you're invested in. That's the whole point.

bonds are going to move slower than anything else, that's kind of like what you transfer to when you're almost ready to retire. So, you could you could stand to be more aggressive in your approach.

That's just me high level looking at it based on what you said. >> Yeah. looking at some funds that are, you know, um, aggressive growth type mutual funds, you probably would see more return, but also, you know, it is the long game. So, I wouldn't, but I would make sure that, yeah, from a investment strategy perspective, like what you're saying, Jade, there's >> a right way to play that long game.

Um, >> I agree. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you love this guy and you think that you just need to spend more time with him to understand, great. I'm not going to tell you to divert.

um >> like like guaranteed but then once you go to the stock market you're like whoa.

You know what I mean? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just not really Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, and I think you know over the next two to three years, Dominic, I would use majority of this to put as much down on a house as possible and then have that and then and then re

re-energize the the investment machine, if you will. Um, so I think you're,

yeah, I mean, I would look into it, but 2 to 3 years isn't going to make or break you cuz you're probably going to use this for the house. But I would just from a knowledge perspective, like what Jade's saying is sit down and really get a good grasp on what all this is and check out our investment, you know, philosophy on the four types of mutual funds. And again, we're even okay with an index fund that's just over, you know, the broad scope if you just want to put your money in that, too. But, um, but the diversification piece is really is really big.

That's what I would ask him about that that other fund, but I'd get out of I'd get out of the bond market personally. >> Uh yeah, I would too. It sounds like I was just kind of looking at it a little bit and it just sounds like it's way more predictable. There's an income facet of it.

There's a lot of protection against the downside of the market. So, it sounds like this is just very very conservative for you. Um and >> at your age, you probably don't need it. >> You don't need to be.

Yeah, you got time, buddy. So, get out there. Test the waters as well. Dominic though, keep the keep the uh the Yeah, the habits in place though.

The fact that you've saved that much is so impressive.

>> Yes. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call.

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All right, we've got Susan on the line.

She's in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Susan.

Thanks for joining us. How can we help today? >> Hey, thanks for taking my call. So, I'm

kind of at a loss. Um, the man I

married, we we've known each other four and a half years, and we got married four months before he passed away. Oh my

gosh, Susan.

>> Um, anyway, I've always had a soft landing in my life and there's always been somebody.

Well, this is the first time. And again, there's a little bit of a soft landing.

He he left a little life insurance. Um, I've I've sold a lot of um assets that I have and it's helped. Um, I am self-employed, but I what I found myself and I went through a grief uh support group thing and one of the things they talked about was grief spending.

>> I'm like, oh, that's not me. Sure enough. Um, it was about four weeks ago

I realized, oh my gosh, I'm I'm a grief

spender. >> I mean, I was just going over my numbers since he passed in August. Um, and since

September, over my budget, I have spent $33,800.

Now, some of that was on tires for the car and um, you know, oil change and stuff, but um, the majority of that has

just been on memberships, house cleaners, gardeners, um, handymen, and

dog stuff, and just stuff I don't need or didn't need to to buy buy. And every

time, and I just empathize with myself when I would click that little buy button. >> Yeah. >> On Amazon, >> it was um >> Oh my gosh. >> Are you using the insurance money for this or is this something you're going into debt to?

>> No, fortunately, no. I'm not going into debt. So, I currently right now in savings. I'm down to 20,000 and three

months ago there was 57,000 in there.

>> Okay. Some of that I've been using to live on. I I need um two grand a month to live on in my house. My business requires two grand and it's sustaining on its own. So, I'm not worried about that. But I do need my business to kick it up a notch so that it can support my business and me. But that's that's going to take time because when he got sick, I did back off um clientele, etc.

>> The 2,000 a month you live on, what's that cover? Do you live someplace where there's no mortgage or tell us more about that? >> I rent. It's a rent and that's utilities. Rent is 1450 and it's gas, lights, um, trash, water, and internet.

>> Okay. And that's going to be gone in 10 months.

>> Well, yeah, if I keep going in the way I'm going. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, I am getting u more inheritance next

week. There there's another heritance check coming. How much? That'll boost that 20 up to 50,000. It'll be 30,000.

And then there is another

uh probably 25,000 in assets that I need to sell.

>> Okay. >> Um that I haven't gotten to yet. I'm working on it. It's just there's just an awful lot to navigate. Yeah.

>> And then um >> and then there's another pension of his that I haven't applied for yet and that's about 18,000. And so when all said and done, if I spend no more out of the savings, >> in about a month, I should be 95,000 in that account. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

>> So, are you do you feel like the the counseling is helping with the grief spending now that you've kind of pinpointed it? Because sometimes part of the problem is like realizing, oh gosh, that's me.

>> Yeah. I finished the grief counseling back in December, and I didn't realize my problem until about three weeks ago.

>> Okay. >> Now, back in September, a friend was booking a cruise. I said, "Sure, I'll book that cruise with you for February." So, two weeks ago, I went on a oneweek cruise. It was 500 bucks. I say it was only 500 bucks. Yeah, that's not bad for a nice, you know, balcony stateateroom, but I didn't calculate the $100 parking fee and the $400 I had to board my dogs.

>> Yeah. >> Plus, I spent another probably five or $600 on luggage and clothes.

>> None of that was in my purview back in September when I booked. >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Those plan for it.

>> Yeah. They don't Yeah, they sneak up.

>> Susan, go ahead. Well, I was going to say first I would give yourself some grace because I do think when you're in a season especially of grief um our

bodies we're looking for a way to cope, right? And if we're not aware about or

not intentional about it, it can go we can start medicating sideways, right?

Whether it's >> drinking, gambling, shopping, like whatever we're doing to have a level of stability, we search out for. Um, so I

don't want to fault you for that cuz I think you know that's a it's a that's a common >> very normal. >> Yes. So now I think the fact that you've realized it now we can put some things in place to help with it to actually create some friction between you and buying things. So I would do you know from a low level I would delete Amazon Prime. I would not have my card saved on

any website to make it an easy purchase.

I would take off Apple Pay off of your phone. Like put some actual logistical

friction between you and and spending any money. Okay, that's like one thing you can do. Um, another thing that when

you're coming off of, and I wouldn't say that you're necessarily are addicted to spending, but a lot of people, especially in 12step, they say to redirect where you would normally go and spend or normally go and get a drink.

Um, instead do something helpful, right?

When you feel the need to spend, go for a walk. When you feel the need to spend, have that friend that you call and you tell her, "I'm going to call you every time I'm tempted." Right? It's this redirection of your actions that

actually can be very helpful because you almost train your train yourself to have

a new set of habits. Um, so yeah, that

that those are a couple of just things I would probably I would start today. And then of course the budget and kind of the working with still you know yourself

um I think is still big.

>> Yeah. I think in this call I would tend to air on the side that what Rachel said is probably the the bigger and the biggest part of this because until until you can get that piece in alignment.

Anything else that we teach you is not going to hold right because you need to have that self-control that's built in.

Um, but once you do have that, yeah, there's the practical side of making sure you are in a budget like every dollar and we'll make sure that you get that before we hang up this call. But, uh, >> we have it and I have created the budget, it it's easy to pay my bills.

>> Good. Good. And then >> the discipline of learning how to be really detailed when new things pop up is something that is a muscle I think that builds over time to just think through every aspect of what you might spend money on. But my biggest question um besides these lump sums of money that's coming is what's your monthtomonth?

How are you how how much money do you earn coming in monthtomonth? >> Right now I'm earning in my business about two grand just enough to cover the expenses of my business.

>> So it's not whatever. >> It's not actually profit. It's having to be right reinvested right back into the business to keep it going. So, I would say that I'm concerned about that. Um, and that would be along with what Rachel said, creating the friction. My my number two piece of homework for you would be figuring out what earning an income looks like for you. How long have you had this business?

>> Uh, five years. And it was doing really well. Um, >> what caused it to decline?

>> My husband's sickness and me stopping stepping back. >> Okay. Okay. >> Do you have a timeline, Susan? realistic timeline and when you think it's going to start actually creating a profit. Is it going to be like another year? Is it going to be three months? >> No, it's it's actually starting to build back up again. >> What What kind of business is it?

>> Um I'm a transformational trauma coach.

>> Okay. >> And I'm pretty elite in the area I live.

>> Okay. >> Um so I'm pretty well known and it is lucrative. Um I mean

>> so it's in the client bag >> but like 24 and I had my husband's

income as well. Uh in 2024 we were doing

close to 100,000 that year and we live in a small town. So >> how much were you making out of that?

>> Um about 52.

>> Okay. So, if you could get back clientele wise >> to that 52, that would you could sustain on that. >> And I I like that for you. In the meantime, honestly, I'd pick up a side hustle because when you have too much time to sit at home, I know when I'm at home, Rachel, and my eyes just look at the walls.

I go, "Oh, it'd be nice to get something new for that wall. Oh, I need a new bedspread. Oh, like when I'm not doing enough with my time, I tend to spend more money." And I think a lot of us are like that cuz you're bored and you're looking for release.

So, it's going to kill two birds with one stone to get out there, get a side hustle until this business is producing and do what Rachel said, put some friction in place.

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramissysolutions.com/taxpro.

One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they're winning. and we just got this amazing review of our Every Dollar app.

She says, "I love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We have implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there is full transparency and we're on the same page.

Love that. That's amazing. Hey, you can do it, too. You can take control of your money and you can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download our Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play." Alrighty then. Stephen is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Stephen. How can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm do I was doing the baby steps and I'm finally at that uh pay off a mortgage step. I found you guys last year through a guy at work.

>> Um I've been messing up and I've been putting money towards my escrow.

>> Is there a really good way to attack a mortgage? Because I love to be paid off in about five years. Yeah. >> Or sooner. >> I mean, the best way is to pay extra payments. So, you pay your normal uh payment that's due that satisfies the interest and then after that's free and clear, then you can go back and put extra payments and put them directly onto the principal. And that truly is the best way to do it over time.

>> Okay. So, when you do the um when you say pay on the principal for the mortgage payment, are you talking about like the lump sum I pay every month or is it actually like a certain mortgage payment? So, um, your mortgage payment, the the payment that you pay every month, it's probably comprised of a couple elements. There is the actual loan balance, what you owe for the home,

and then you probably have some insurance that's built in there, some taxes that are built in there. Um, right, HOA, sometimes that's built in.

So, your payment is going to all those different places when you pay your monthly payment, interest, all of that.

So after you've paid that monthly payment, you've satisfied the interest, you've satisfied the taxes, anything else that's built in. Now any extra money that you apply, it's going to go directly to the loan balance, which we would call the principal. So it's going to go straight to that. And that way it's like a pure it's pure money go.

So if you pay $500, it's going to lower your balance by five, you know, it's going to lower it by that much because it's already it's on top of your normal payment. And a lot of times >> that's what I thought I was doing, but it was actually just sitting in my escrow and then I got a check for the the remainder. >> So what I would do is you can either call it in and tell them. I know on mine you could go in and you can actually decipher if it's going to be a normal payment or if it's going to be a principal only payment.

It actually has the option.

And if you're doing it, uh, you kind of

have to make sure for the month you've already satisfied the payment for the month or else it'll go towards your monthly. It'll go towards your normally monthly payment. Does that make sense?

>> No, I have no problem with that. I usually pay a little early and then what I have at the end of the month is what I try to put on extra. >> Yeah. >> So, after everything was like all my bills are set and paid, it's I throw whatever I have left over just right in there.

I kind of have like a a free account type of thing. >> Yeah. after everything goes through the budget. >> Um, is there a good strategy on how to pay it?

Like try to do like two, three extra mortgage payments and try to kick it down or is it just throw anything and any extra that you have at it >> as much as you can within, you know, what what makes reasonable sense for you. So, we always teach that, you know, when you do the first three baby steps, you're very intense. Everything is as fast as possible. You sacrifice everything, you know, in order to do this quickly.

But then when you move into baby steps four, five, and six, you're moving into a season of intentionality, which is I don't have to be like, you know, balls to the wall, but I do want to be thoughtful about am I intentionally putting extra towards this? And that really is up to you. If you're in a season that you want to go really fast, that's fine. Or you you know what I find, Rachel, is that there are seasons where you're very, >> you know, gung-ho about it, and then there's seasons where you're like, you know what, I'm going to renovate that bathroom.

And so maybe you pull back a little bit, but you're still putting something extra. And so it kind of es and flows, but the point is that you're always doing something and that you have a plan for what that looks like.

>> And I'm sure you've run numbers, Stephen, right? I mean, people do like Excel forms or a mortgage calculator, and you can watch that as that principle

goes down. >> I just learned about that from Dave.

>> Okay, good. >> Like I said, I'm new to this and I just did my mortgage calculator thingy. So, I'm hoping to be paid. Like I said, I just refinanced for a 15 year.

>> Oh, good for you. Yeah.

>> I was I had horrible credit and everything like that when I first did this. So, my interest rate was high.

>> Okay. >> So, >> good >> with doing everything. I was so scared because paying off everything.

Obviously, my credit score dropped. So, they had to do the underwriting thing that you guys talked about, >> but they did it. But >> that's awesome. >> Yeah. Well, a 15year and I just really

want to pay it off. >> Yes. Well, for a lot of people when you start to see those numbers and what's crazy is even I don't remember the math, but we did this at a live event recently. It was like uh four extra mortgage payments a year and how quickly

that takes off what what it does on the principal and how much I mean how much interest you save. Tens of thousands if not even hundreds of thousands of dollars of interest. Like it is it is wild um what even just a little bit will do. Do you know what I mean?

That's what's so encouraging about it is when you start plugging in your numbers, you're like, "Oh my gosh, like this goes a really long way." And a lot of people that are doing the baby steps, they pay their houses off in 7 to 10 years. Um, so yeah, you may be faster than that, Stephen. Um, or you may be right around that, but I think, uh, when you at least have the mindset that you want to pay off your house, it happens faster than just settling and saying, "I'll have a mortgage for 30 years or 15 years." >> Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Just by doing four extra principal payments. >> Does it say 15? >> Uh-huh. Uh on a 15year, it could shrink it to around 10 to 11 years. So, that is

major. >> That's just five years. Yeah. Just a few extra mortgage payments. So, if you did that >> six times a year, right? Like it starts to just shrink so quickly. That's what's wild about it. >> Yeah. It's really, really crazy. Yeah.

If you, you know, spent the average right now, which is around 400,000 on a mortgage, the normal terms, Yeah. on a 30-year, you would save potentially $200,000 in interest simply by doing that.

>> Yeah. So, if you've not ever played around with these numbers, you can get yourself like you can go down a rabbit hole of just like like really realizing

>> and that's money back in your pocket. Hundreds of thousand dollars that's not going to interest. It's you. It's for you. Yes. You save that. It's amazing.

And can we just say that for a minute?

Sometimes when you're playing when you're talking about numbers like this and they feel like they're out in the future, it can feel like it doesn't matter, but it does. These are real

dollars that you are paying.

>> Real dollars. $200,000 come from your money.

>> And so just really take some time and think about that. It can feel almost like it's not us, >> but it is. It is real money. All right.

Very, very good. Let's go to Holly in Sacramento, California. Holly, you're up. How can we help today?

>> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I have a two-part question.

>> Uh the first one, I'm a single teacher mom. I make 114,000 a year. I have life

insurance through work at 300,000.

And I'm just wondering if I need extra term life insurance on top of that.

>> Yes, I would. We say 10 to 12 times your annual income. So, I would put more like a million. have a million- dollar policy. >> Yeah. >> A million. Okay.

>> Yes. And hopefully you can get it.

Hopefully, you know, and you can supplement it if you want to keep the work one. I'd be okay with that if you got a 700,000 >> um term life. And it shouldn't be too expensive if you're, you know, healthy and all the things. So, um yeah, but that's what I would I would have that to supplement.

>> Yeah. And you can get that through Xander. You can hop on and they'll get you set up. It's really easy now.

I mean, they'll even come to your house and everything like that. Yeah. It's great. >> Okay.

And my other question is, I recently paid off my car and one other large debt I'm working on.

>> Thank you. I'm working on paying off my helock loan and it's at 20,000 right now. Um, I'm paying $1,000 a month and

I'm just curious, you know, what should my next steps be in order to continue to

support my child? Um, I have more than a,000 in my emergency fund. I'm nervous

about putting it down to a thousand.

Yeah. >> How much is in your emergency fund?

>> I have 6,000 right now. >> 6,000. Okay. And you're paying an extra,000. So on track, you know, year

and a half or so, you'll have that heliloc paid off.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, I would say if there's uh I mean, that's a great I mean, to be a single mom working um >> Yeah. There's a different level of stress there. >> Yeah. You're doing I think you're doing great. Uh, Holly, if there's anything extra that you can put towards it at any capacity, obviously the faster the better. Um, but you're killing it, girl.

I mean, yeah, I think you're doing great. >> Yeah, I think you're going to feel the motivation on your own to find ways to get more and more income going towards that and it's going to be knocked out before you know it.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramiesolutions.com.

All right, our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day. Proverbs 3:es 5-6.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding.

In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Dolly Parton said, "If you don't like the road you're walking, start paving another one." >> Oh, >> pretty good. Pretty good >> classic >> man. I feel like I'm walking on air after James gave us that >> really nice encouragement. James, I don't know how to act. And then we got Dolly Parton and Proverbs. Just >> we're gonna end the show. Well, >> I know. I wanted him to come on. He didn't. All right. Curtis is in Richmond, Virginia. What's up, Curtis?

>> Hi. How are you ladies doing this afternoon? >> Excellent. How can we help?

>> Well, let me start by 2025 was a really bad year for me.

>> I'm sorry. >> Um, in May, I lost my wife.

>> Oh, >> um, December, I lost my dad. I had been his

caregiver for a few years.

Um, when I

when I needed to become his caregiver, I left my job because I was getting a stipen to take help take care of him.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, plus my wife had a very good job,

and it was her idea for me to bring him

into the house, help take care of him,

do what needed to be done because that's what I felt like I was led to do.

>> Sure.

Um, fast forward to now, the savings that I

had um between my wife's passing and now my

dad's um has been eaten up by going back and

forth to the hospital.

>> Yeah. the funeral expenses, trying to catch up on bills, and I have found myself to be about $13,000 in

debt.

Um, and that's after paying down almost

$70,000. >> Wow. And >> okay, >> I have no job now.

>> And I'm trying to find one, but I have found it very difficult.

>> Yeah. What's your field like? What's your expertise, Curtis?

>> Well, I was military to begin with. Um,

and prior to that, I was in sales.

>> Okay. And how long were you out of the workforce? Um, taking care of your dad?

How many years?

>> Eight years. >> Oh, okay. A while. >> Okay. Yeah. That How old are you? >> Significant.

>> 49. >> 49. Okay.

>> Okay. So, there's no, just to get a better picture, there's no savings anywhere to speak of. Do you have anything that was put away while you were in the military? Um, anything like that?

>> No, I've blown through all of it.

>> Okay. >> See, dad dad ended up with dementia um

with Alzheimer's. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Sorry.

>> And Trish, it was unexpected. Uh, she

passed with a massive heart attack.

>> Oh my gosh, Curtis.

>> Oh, I'm so sorry. >> This is really tough. Yeah, it was a really hard year. >> I'm trying to stay positive.

I'm trying to to >> put it in God's hands because that's what need me to do. >> It's also grieving the life that you thought you were going to have for the next 30 years. You know, I mean, it's life looks completely different. And as Dr.

start rewriting your story and and you

know the hard thing is is you know you're 49 and so it's hard because you you you have a long life ahead of you and it's also a positive thing because I think you can make some incredible changes and start you know it's a new

life that you have to look at, right?

It's not even rebuilding the life that you had. It is >> um it's it's looking ahead and saying there's going to be a new Curtis and what do I have to do now for myself to not only sustain, but what's good for me? and finding some some positive small

wins in the midst of this grief um is not only going to help you financially, Curtis, but I also think in who you are and kind of going back to yeah, finding finding a new purpose and how to contribute to the world and that's that's a hard a hard thing to do. Um, I

do know at the end of the call though we will um give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do because there's still a whole second chapter, Curtis, of your life to be to be written, you know. >> Yeah, I agree. This is kind of like a a ren this like a rebirth for you >> and in many ways that can be scary and daunting, but in other ways it can be really interesting and can be exciting after enough time passes and you can see it as an opportunity to start something fresh and new.

And I actually think that that might end up being the case career-wise. So, I'd be sitting some time spending some time thinking about if I could do anything, and I know when Ken coaches people, he kind of starts with that. If I could do anything, what would it be? And then kind of just run that down.

And that would kind of be if I were in your shoes, I think that that would be a journal prompt for me every day is if I could do anything I wanted to do today with my career, with my talents, what would it be? And I would just spend time thinking about that because I think sometimes in life we don't give oursel there's always something going on and we do what we have to do. We do what we need to do but very rarely do we always do the things that we want to do.

Um and I think it's just going to take time. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But anything that you can do today to start bringing

in an income and it of course won't be your dream job but I think getting up

having a routine having a schedule

having something that you're doing I think does start to you know re-energize

you and there's a level of dignity that's there and getting a paycheck and actually start seeing progress in some part of life and this would be the more financial side part but um but it can be powerful when you start actually getting up and and doing something because it could be so easy just to not because you've been through so much. Um, >> and don't hesitate to call us. Call us back if you feel like you're getting that traction and then you're saying, "Okay, I'm making this money now. What do I do with it?" The good news is 13,000 in debt.

You know, once you start having any income come in, you're going to realize, "Oh, I can knock that out fairly fairly quickly." And um, I have no no doubt that you're going to do that. I just think the fog needs to clear a little bit more for you to get your bearings in this. Thank you for the call. All right, let's go straight to Nicole in Louisville, Kentucky.

Nicole, we're right up against the clock. How can we help today? >> Okay, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I am in my early 40s and my husband is in his early 50s.

Wow. >> We have found a place that we want to move to. Um, but we want to rent there first before we sell our current home.

We are debtree except for that mortgage.

We do have some older kids who are currently renting and since we have family nearby who could also support them, we want to know if renting our house to them would be wise.

>> Uh, probably not because you guys will probably sell it in a year, right? If you're wanting to keep it just for a short term till you find a house that you guys want to buy in a new location, right?

If the new location is as much of a fit as we hope it is, yes.

>> Okay. But if it's not, you'll come back home and want to live in the house that you're in. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> It's hard to give up the interest rate that we have until we know we have to.

>> Oh, okay. Interesting. What type I mean,

what would you do for work? Are your jobs, you know, >> our jobs are remote, so we can Yes, we can do the exact same things we're doing now there. >> Okay. Would you guys be able to support

>> um the rents of the new place and then

for some reason if something goes haywire with family? Are you I mean, is that does that put you in a financial bind?

>> I don't think so. We've tried to use the 25% of our income to say like what could

we afford in rent plus covering the mortgage if we had to. But of course, you know, anybody helping cover the mortgage while we're gone would help. >> I I normally am not a fan of that. But if since it's still a question mark of if you're going to stay in the new location, >> um I would be okay with you keeping it and doing a one-year very clearly communicated a oneyear rent agreement to people you know. Yes.

>> Uh which means that that can go haywire.

That's why I want a lot of margin with you financially cuz I don't want this to ruin any kind of relationship and make it weird. But um but yep, if you have that one year and then you guys if you want to stay in the new location, that house, you need to sell it, Nicole. I don't care what the interest rate is. You need to sell it and move your life to the new or if the new location didn't work out, then you move back home.

But I would just do it for one calendar year and that's it. >> Yeah, I like that idea. And it's good that you have the kids because they seem like they'd be just the right person to rent the house. Uh, thank you for the call.

All right, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us.

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## 35. Discipline Today Creates Freedom Tomorrow | November 12, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. The phone number to jump in is 888 825-5225.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. We're here together. She's going to help you save uh and spend the

money. I'm going to help you make more money. That's my role here on the Ramsey Show. Got to remind people from time to time. >> that. >> to help you win at work. Two ways to win with money. We're going to make sure we're controlling the outflow and we want to get more inflow, if you will.

So, there it is. That's how we tag team.

We start off with Bill, who is joining us in New Jersey. Bill, how can we help today?

Hi guys, how are you doing today?

>> We're doing well. What's going on?

So, yeah, I'm calling cuz I'm in a bit of a situation here uh with some college

uh loans that I have. Some uh student loans that are uh they're parent plus loans though, so they're under my father's name and uh but I'm the one uh

paying them. Um They're about uh three different loans.

They total to about 70K in total between

the three. Uh and they have about 7% interest rate.

At the moment, I've been paying about uh 450 a month on them, but I just did the

calculations and with the interest rate, it doesn't look like I'm going to be paying them off anytime soon with that.

>> Nope. Uh so I was just looking for some guidance there on what to what to do.

>> All right, so >> have some other debts as well.

>> Obvious question, these are these loans your dad took out were for your education. True or false?

True. Okay. And what are you doing for a living?

Uh at the moment I'm a manager at a Jersey Mike's. I actually ended up uh dropping out of it during COVID.

Uh they wanted me to pay full tuition for online classes and I was not about that. And what were you in school to do?

Um originally I was a biochem major and I was planning on a pre-med track, but uh that first year I really did not enjoy it and I decided, all right, I'm not going to want to do this the rest of my life. Uh happy I got out then instead of

going into more debt for medical school.

Um and then, you know, I was kind of in like an in-between area and then we all got sent home and, you know, I didn't end up picking anything.

So, what do you what are you making now at Jersey Mike's?

I make about uh 90K a year. Okay, and that's a management position?

Yes. >> Okay. Do you have any other ideas for your future?

Uh I would like to go into franchising and continue with the quick service Okay, so you found your spot. >> That's cool. That's great. >> Yeah. No, I love it. I came back after over COVID, fell in love, realized this is what I want to do. Okay, great. That checks that box and now we can we bring Jade in here and we start going, okay, let's knock this out. Let's get her the full picture. Beyond the 70,000 in over

three student loans, what other debt do you have? Give us the full picture.

So, I have about 4,500 on a credit card. Uh I've been

pretty aggressively or trying to aggressively paying that off at the moment. Um I do also have uh 3,000 left on a car

loan. Okay. Um and I also have uh 9,000

uh of my own student loans as well in my

name. >> what was the deal on the student loans?

Did you know from the beginning that you were going to be on the hook for those parent plus loans even though it was just your dad's name uh on the note? I

did not know they existed. Oh.

How did you find out?

>> um because my uncle is a co-signer on

them and so I was paying the ones that were in my name and I was doing that all actually started paying them early before I even had to uh cuz I did not want them gaining more interest and, you know, So, it was your uncle and your dad your uncle and your dad took these out?

Yeah, so my dad took them out and my uncle had to co-sign on those loans for them. How did you think education was being paid for? When you were showing up for class, in your mind, how was it being paid for?

So, I knew I did have some loans, but uh when I was filling out the like FAFSA and doing that stuff with my dad, I was under the impression that I had like grants and that it was uh you know, that I had gotten from like assistance from the school.

So, you thought the 9,000 You thought the 9,000 was it and everything else was grants and and help. So, the 9,000 is what's left. It was originally uh 20,

but I've paid it down to nine so far.

So, um how did it come to be that you're paying for loans that you didn't even know were being taken out? How did that happen? Did your uncle call you up? Dad call?

>> Yeah, I got an email from my uncle saying uh you know, like, "Hey, why haven't you been paying your student loans?" And I was very taken aback cuz I was like, I I have been. Like, I started doing it early. I don't know what you're talking about. I showed them my loans as well and then, you know, he pulled up what he had and he showed me, "No, they're past due.

Like, I don't know what your Listen. >> is." And then we figured it out and then my father finally was like, "Oh, yeah, like I had to do that." Listen, I I I'm not in the business of uh splitting up families or, you know, trying to cause drama between families.

this is so messed up. >> Mhm. >> It's really messed up. >> way of saying it. >> Yeah, it is. And I I want to know. Tell me but it might not be as messed up if I hear your side of it. In your mind, are you like, "This is my responsibility.

I'm happy to pay it. It was my education. It makes sense to me. Jade, I'm cool." Or is this something that causes you a bit of resentment and anger and is it problematic for you emotionally?

Half and half. I'm not really not going to let it get in the in-between my relationship with me and my father in any means. He's been a great dad, you know. Uh nothing like that. I was definitely a little frustrated with him cuz uh about 2 years ago, I was uh looking to move out. Um and I did end up moving out, but before I did, a similar situation happened with my brother as well, where he had student loans that he was not aware of. Uh that my father did also

take out. I don't know if they were under his name or under my brother's name in that situation, but uh you know,

I just remember him being pretty upset not knowing about those. Yeah.

>> Um so before I moved out, I went to my father and asked him. I was like, "Hey, do I have any other student loans that I'm not aware of that I should be paying right now before I move out?" Cuz if I did know that I had this 70K, I I probably would not have moved out when I did. I would have stayed home and tried to put more of my uh resources towards

these to get them paid down. Um >> And how long after the fact How long after the fact that they were due did you find out about them? Cuz, you know, after 6 months they become due upon graduation. So, how long >> was there was some uh for like uh I

forget what it was called, but they they were like pushed back delayed because of COVID and there was a lot of stuff there. >> But and you didn't know all that time.

All that time that you could have been paying them off interest free, you didn't know about them.

I did not know about them. >> you, I'm going to be I'm going to be flat out honest with you. I love relationships. I love that you are honoring your parents. This is bothering me. Um now, if you tell me this is your life, so you can decide. If you tell me, "Jade, I'm just going to go ahead and pay it. Can you please move on with the advice?" Fine. The advice would be for me uh you need to take all the debts, uh

credit cards, car, student loans, list them smallest to largest. Based on what you told me, we need to be tackling the car first. All your extra money after you've paid minimum payments, all the extra needs to go on that car, knock it out fast, and then next would be the credit cards, next would be the student loan, and then you'd start tackling the $70,000 student loan in chunks. But if it were me, I'd be having a serious conversation and at the very least, I'd

say, "I'm paying half of this because I didn't know about it and I hadn't opportunity to take care of it when there was no interest and you didn't do me the service of even telling me about it. So, you're on you're on the hook for half and it's not in your name." I agree. Well said. Amen. Pass the plates. [Music]

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[Music]

Jenny is up next in Atlanta, Georgia.

Jenny, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. I'm a little nervous. You're doing great. We're going to take good care of you. Thank you. Um my husband and I are getting a late start. We don't have any retirement. We don't have a house. I'm 45, he's 51. We have debt. We want to

know like what we can do to catch up.

He's not as gung-ho as I am, but he's getting there. He kind of kept the debt from me and we're trying to live correct right now in every area possible. Um we have counseling we're paying for because of trauma we've been through. I'm working three jobs, he's working two.

Um so it's just kind of a lot right now.

Okay. So it sounds like we're getting very busy. Sounds like you guys are trying to make more money and come after this, correct?

Yes, we've been trying for the last few months. Um he kind of was doing it on his own and when I kind of found out more about it, he um like we got kind of more aggressive about it. >> the debt? What was the debt that he kept from you?

Um we have about like 30,000 debt plus

the cars go 50.

Um and I knew we had like a little bit, but I never knew how much. He just always told me he was taking care of it and Yes, but what I'm asking, what was the debt? Obviously the cars you probably knew about, but what was the other debt that you didn't know anything about?

We have a debt consolidation loan and there was some credit card.

Um my insurance isn't good, so we've had some medical debt.

Um we have IRS that we have to pay. So it

wasn't I'm just trying to get a a read on this. It wasn't what we call financial infidelity where he was hiding all kinds of expenditures.

You just weren't paying attention and you guys kind of got behind the eight ball and then he tried to consolidate.

I'm just trying to get an understanding of when you say I didn't know about it,

where are you guys emotionally on this deal? Where where does it stand?

Yeah, it wasn't like he was out spending stuff per se, but like a lot of restaurants and stores and nothing like major, but things like that. And I just

um felt like I was supposed to be this submissive wife and not really involved in the money. And I had like the wrong mindset and now that I do, we're trying to do it right, but it's really hard to break the habit like Got it. you know, to not go to restaurants and things like that. Okay.

And so one other question here and cuz Jade's going to jump in, but I'm just kind of gathering some facts.

Sure. So you guys have tried, he's tried

on his own. Now he makes you aware of it. Now you're going, okay, gosh, we don't like the way this feels. We're going after this. But you started the call by saying, I'm ready to go all in.

I'm calling the Ramsey show today. He's sort of kind of not there. What is he not on board? I I just that'll help us.

Where is he not on board with where you are? I mean, he is mostly, but like I'm trying to live for the Lord. I mean, we're both trying to live for the Lord in every way possible and just money's kind of not his focus right now. He's trying to get like healed in other ways.

Got it. Is this a priority right now?

Let me You're you're kind of talking a little bit in riddles.

And I think it's because you're you're trying to protect in like delicate information it seems like, but I want to ask you, is money the most important thing you need to be like is is walking the baby steps the most important thing you need to be worried about right now or are there other fires that are more important that need to be put out?

I mean, I guess I got kind of want to do both. Like we're trying to get our money right, but we're trying to get everything else right in our life at the same time. And like I know counseling is a huge priority for us that I don't want to give up. All right. So how much are we spending on that a month?

Like a thousand dollars because it's for me and my husband and my daughter. Okay, great. Great, but that gives us something to work with. So we've got a thousand dollars a month, Jade, that we want to protect at all costs. And I love that. Yeah. Okay. Um I I asked that

question because it money is important. Like Ken, you already know. It touches everything, Jenny, and you can see this. It touches your relationships, your job, your spirituality, all of it, right? It's all encompassing. Um that being said, sometimes uh in an attempt to not focus on other things, we focus on the baby steps, being intense about that. This is the thing I'm going to focus on when really your marriage is falling apart, right? And so what I don't want you to do is focus on the wrong thing. Yep.

If what you're telling me is Jade, we want to do it. We just I just simply want to know is it okay for me to keep a thousand dollars aside for counseling?

Yeah, the answer is yes. You have to be a well person. That's like me telling you that walking the baby steps is not an excuse to eat ramen noodles. Like you need to be healthy.

You need to do this the right way. So um >> know why you had to single out ramen noodles, but we'll talk about that later. The sodium alone, Ken. So yeah, let's walk through the numbers.

A thousand dollars on counseling, I'm fine with that. Tell me what you guys bring in a month and then we can talk about what's going to feel realistic for you in this season when you're so heavily getting the mental health that you guys all need. Thank you. Um we bring in about 7,500 a month.

Okay, 7,500 a month.

1,900. Okay, great. Okay, so

biggest expenses, 1,900 on rent, thousand dollars on counseling.

Uh any daycare or anything like like that I need to know about? Like high dollar stuff.

>> Yeah, my daughter's tuition is $300.

I'm on a medicine that's $550,

but I donate plasma, so I mainly pay for that out of that money. Okay, so that's kind of a wash on the on the on the 550.

Okay, so I'm looking at this and I'm going, okay, I'm seeing I'm seeing $3,200 that's going away in must-haves. What's happening to the other 3,700?

Um paying off debt, groceries,

you know, just different bills like that. I feel like And when you put all that in your budget, how much how much are you putting extra on the debt? Not

minimum payments, but above and beyond the minimum payment. How much are you putting extra?

I mean, we're trying to, but we don't have like a set number. It's just kind of like whatever we have left over, we do. Okay, so that's what we'll fix That's what we'll fix today because if you guys are on fixed, you know, you get basically paid the same amount every two weeks or every month, whatever what have you, then this should be like clockwork.

So what I need is for you guys to get on an every dollar budget and if you don't have one, do you have one?

Yeah, I do have the every dollar. Okay, so when you open up every dollar, it should be really cut and dry for you, Jenny, to be able to see, okay, we make 7,500, 1,900 goes to rent, a thousand to counseling, 300 to school, because of my plasma, we only pay a hundred dollars for the medication, right? All of that's in the budget and then it's going to show you after all the things that must be done, gas, groceries, insurance, there's going to be a number up there. In your case, it should be in the green of extra money that it is now Okay, what do we want to do with this money?

And here's the thing, Jenny, the choices are we can put this extra money towards DoorDash, we can put this extra money towards a vacation that we want to go on, we can put this extra money towards a slush fund that just gets eaten away with by going to the gas station and gets eaten away with by running to Sonic, right? Or we can say, at the end of every month we have $1,300 and that is going on the smallest debt every month, no matter what, like clockwork. Do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah.

Right? And that's what I'm trying to do. It's just, you know, getting there, I guess, is hard. >> And you tell me, tell me tell me the emotion the emotion that you feel when

you know the money is there, but you do something else. Is it I work really hard, I I just deserve this? Is it I'm just so tired? Is it I'm frustrated?

Tell me what you're feeling that's causing you not to do the thing.

I guess frustrated. I know restaurants is really like our weakness and like we say we're not going to go and then we go and just, you know, changing and living that new lifestyle is pretty hard and I think it's >> getting to that point. I want to know why I think it is just listening to you.

I think you're scared.

I think you're afraid. I think you've seen life one way and the idea of it looking different scares you. Well, yeah, I agree with that and I I also would say that now hearing what we know, I think it's hard enough going through therapy, trying to change our life, deal with the trauma, whatever it hurt is attached to all this. Can we reset our family? And that enough that on its own is exhausting. >> Yeah, it's And I think it's hard to go, come on, babe, you need to join me on this debt-free journey, too.

So I do think it is fear of the confrontation and how exhausting it is, but I do think that I would take this to the therapist and go, hey, did a phone call, we're trying to do this money thing. Can you coach us in this therapy about how important is it we get on the same page there? I would take it to the professional help. Love that you're spending a thousand dollars a month, but you guys have got to lean in on every issue. Take take that and use that

$1,000 and it's going to benefit.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, folks. It's the most wonderful time of the year. Can you believe that? Talking about it now. It feels like it's getting earlier and earlier. >> It is. I put up my tree, did you? Oh, yeah. >> Trees. Oh, yeah. Trees. And by the way, the weekend after Halloween.

Yeah. >> Mrs. Coleman said, "Head on up to the attic area." >> That's right. That's That's the job.

>> way, if you see me and I look a little stiff today on camera, it's because pulled a muscle on the right upper side of the old back trying to yank it out of the attic. >> heave a Christmas tree box.

And I'm thinking to myself, I have a strong young man who's 17 years of age.

Why didn't I wait for him? >> This is your plight in life, Ken. He'll have his time. I know. He'll have his time. >> I just wanted to get it over with, and you learn a lesson.

Uh the Ramsey Christmas deals are here.

Uh we don't create the fury, we just go along with it. And boy, oh boy, are these good deals. These prices won't last. You've got $13 best-selling

hardcovers, $12 questions for human decks,

$7.99 audiobooks and ebooks, $20 assessments. Hello, the old get clear assessments in there.

>> And uh I would love for you all to get the uh get clear career assessment. It'll help you. Mhm. And uh my kids need new shoes.

Especially in the but in the new year to know where you're where you want to go with your life and >> Yeah, that's a far more redeeming reason. I was just just blatantly saying, "Hey, I I Yeah, I got kids in college." >> back care. I got back Yeah, I'm going to need to go see the chiropractor. Uh but hey, you can get all the great deals at ramseysolutions.com/store or ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click on the link in the show notes.

John is up in Colorado.

Hey, um very glad I got to you today, Ken, and you, Ms. Warshaw. Thank you.

>> But, it's a career

question that I had. Okay. Um so, I currently work for the state of Colorado. Um it's a relatively safe um

job, as you can imagine with the government, but we've seen lately that that may not be the case. But anyway, um it's a relatively safe job. I

absolutely love what I do. It gives me the ability to do some other side gigs and authorship of some books I write.

Um so, I have a pretty good life, a good

career. I love what I do.

But, there's always a looming question of um should I go into the private sector again and possibly make a quite a significant amount more. Um so, I guess it's a question of do I continue to sacrifice enjoyment and

um safety over, you know, trying to put myself better ahead from, you know, more

financially.

That's kind of what the gist of my question is. Okay, appreciate that.

Let's Let's break this down a little bit more cuz I don't think I don't think you've got the proper context for your choice. But let's see. I I could be wrong. So, what do you make in the government job there in Colorado? Is it By the way, is it a federal government job or a Colorado state?

State. Okay, state job. All right, what do you make?

Uh 120. And what do you What would you say you do? I don't care so much about your title. What do you do?

>> Oh, it's okay. Yeah, no, I'm a I'm a land surveyor. So,

I work for the Department of Transportation and I, you know, do land surveying for Okay. new construction roads or improvements. What do you love most about that work?

Or what do you enjoy most about it?

The people I work with, it's considered,

you know, a very good land surveying job. I'm I'm doing land survey work. I'm not doing >> I I get it, but you're going off the I want you to answer me very literally.

I'm going somewhere to answer your question. So, I asked you, what do you enjoy most about the work? And you said, "The people." That's a perfectly fine answer.

Anything else that meets the enjoy description?

About the work itself. Don't give me it's safe.

>> Okay, outside. Great.

What else?

Um the projects are pretty cool. You know, I get to help help the public. It feels

like I'm a truly a public servant.

>> great. Good answers. All right.

So, um you mentioned that you believe,

which leads me to believe you've done some research, that if you were to go do something else in the private sector, you could make a good bit more money.

Yeah. >> money, and would you be in the same land surveying in the same industry if we use that word?

Yes. How much more money then?

>> I've done my research, and I I've done research, and I have job offers to prove that I could probably make 30 to 40,000 more a year. And yes, the job would be comparable, but um there's a lot more stress involved, a lot more hours, and, you know, all the typical private sector stuff. Well, I see I'm a guy who's worked in

both. So, full disclosure, when I was a young guy in my early 20s, I worked for the governor of Virginia. So, I lasted 12 months, Jade.

Uh I could not handle the pace

of government work. Not I'm not >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh the way the decisions are made, it is a lot more low-key is what I'm hearing from you, John. But the trade-off is you're not getting paid what you should be and could be making.

So, the next question is is when you come to us and you say, "Should I change my job for more money?" the question is what would we do with more money? So, let's say you make 150. What would you do with that additional money?

Where would that go in your life? Is that paying off debt? Is that investing more? Is that enjoying life more? What's the rest of the story?

It'd be investing more enjoying life.

I'm I'm completely debt-free. I own my own home. I have no debt.

Save like 25% of my check as it is.

Yeah. But I do have dreams of, you know, building a home in the mountains, and I'm trying to cash flow that, and I can >> now, ding ding ding, there's the answer.

I would absolutely go private sector and deal with maybe a little bit more stress. I'm not sure that we can guarantee that. Uh and deal with a little bit more hours in order to fast forward or guarantee,

based on the narrative you've given me, the private sector allows you to do that

faster and with more certainty. True or false?

It does. It does. Done deal.

Jade, we always answer what would we do.

We've heard my answer. I would absolutely go private sector, and I would invest more, and I would see if I could climb the ladder even higher than what you've researched. What would you do in his situation? >> I mean, I'm going to go part emotional, part tactical.

For me, after knowing what the answer is, which is yeah, we're going private sector, I would then run out the numbers so that I can get emotionally attached to it.

>> 40,000 more. Right.

>> Yeah, 40,000 more. I want to see that math. I want to know those numbers. I want to know that timeline so I can create a tie with that. If I don't do this, I'm not going to have the house until 2040. If I do have the house, I'm going to have it in 2035. Right? Like knowing that allows you to get excited about it. Allows you to create milestones. Allows you to do all the things that are going to keep your excitement when the hours feel long,

when you're wondering if you never should have made this decision, right?

So, that's >> That's what I would do. I would really make this so crystal clear, understanding what I'm trading and what I'm getting in return for my trade.

Yeah, I think that's so beautiful.

John, I think that's homework assignment. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great exercise. Here I'll give you the last piece on this. There's been several books, uh lots of research done on

uh patients who are in hospice care Mhm.

and how they share their regret their regrets with their loved ones, with their caretakers. There's multiple pieces of work on this that you all can go kick the tires on. But one of the constants, one of the consistent regrets that we hear from those that are know that their time is nigh and they're going to die soon is I regret that I didn't live the life that I truly wanted to live and John, you gave us a pretty clear vision for how you'd like things to go in the future.

And I think that beyond Jade's exercise, I think I love her. I love that

that prompt she gave you. But I would add to that if I don't do this

will I be on my deathbed regretting that I never went for it? Because the safe government job is always going to be there. But I kept hearing safety, safety, safety. And I I would challenge that to say the way we teach you to manage your money, which is we save up for it, we make solid, strong investments that are diversified that have a track record. We don't buy something we don't have money for. All of those things are safe.

But they ultimately lead to a life of adventure. And I think that's what you're craving. So, my friend, we have spoken on the matter. What will you do, John?

I know what he's doing.

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Sydney joins us there. Sydney, how can we help?

Hi, how are y'all doing? Great. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you. Um so, my husband and I are trying to figure out how to best handle our debt. Um so, we

own my car outright, but he still has an

auto loan um and he also has some student loans. Um but we also have a

7-month-old and so we are trying to um

be cautious about how aggressively we tackle our debt. Um we do have a mortgage, of course, but um we have $30,000 in savings and we're just trying to figure out how best to um tackle our debt and efficiently tackle it as well. >> So, tell me what the car loan is.

So, we have $18,955.81

remaining on that. >> All right. And what is that car worth? Do you know if you sold it private sale?

Um I would maybe say around 30,000 maybe.

Okay. All right. Just wanting to know. And then uh student loan debt, what is the total? The remaining on that is $8,952.85.

Look at you. I love that you're giving us to the cent, by the way. You are awesome, Sydney.

Uh so, that's the totality of debt.

We're not counting the house. So, that's it. Yes, that's it. And you got 30 grand in the bank.

Yes. Savings. And how long have you been listening to the Ramsey Show or paying attention to what we teach here at Ramsey Solutions?

Um not as long as my husband. My husband is a big fan of y'alls. Um he has been listening for a lot longer than me, but um he's been listening for a lot longer than me. >> He is not. He is at work. He's a sheriff's deputy and so he's tied up at work right now. >> know? Okay. So, he put you up to calling us.

He said it would be cool if I did. Okay.

Here's what's funny about this. Because Because if he's been following us and he's big fans, he knows what we're going to say about that $30,000 in savings, doesn't he?

I think he does, but I told him that I

am a little bit scared. Yeah, you you opened with that. You said you were feeling cautious and I was interested in knowing what that meant. Yeah, I know what you mean. And as the information unraveled, now I know exactly what it means. >> She's freaking out over us telling her to take $29,000.

Yeah. Or actually, no, we leave a little 20 Actually, we get to leave some in there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

>> So, what Let Let me paint you a picture.

Let me just paint you a picture.

Um you're completely debt-free.

You have not one debt in the world. No one can come after you. No one can take anything from you.

You got $3,000 sitting in the bank.

All of your income when you get paid in November will go to you. No more payments to a car. No more payments to a student loan.

And you can take all that money that you were paying for a car payment, all that money that you were paying for student loans and you could just drop it over in savings. Before you know it, you'll have 5,000. Before you know it, you'll have 10,000. And you don't owe anybody anything. And you've got a 1-year-old at home and you've got 4 months of savings and you've got no debt. How awesome does that feel?

It sounds amazing and because I mean, it

is so true. We are a slave to our to a

slave to our debt and I just my only

concern and fear is, you know, heaven forbid something happened to one of our vehicles, something happened to, you know, the HVAC or whatever. That was a big ticket item. >> You want to know what I love that you're doing? Here's what I love about what you're doing.

You are putting detail to your fears. Okay? Because you said you were cautious, which really was amounting to a fear that you were facing about this. And there's really um two ways to have fear about this.

One is an irrational feel fear and the other is rational. Usually the irrational ones are very vague. It's like, "Oh, if we do this, it's going to ruin everything." Well, what do you mean by that?

So, let's fix it. Now we can look at it and go, "Okay, well, let's let's put some truth to this." The truth is you make a monthly income, don't you?

Yes. How much do you guys make every month? Combined, it's about six $6,400

a month. >> Okay. And how much of that are you putting towards your debt payments every single month? Plus extra cuz you're trying to pay them off. >> savings account you guys are building.

>> I'm getting to that. How much are you putting How much are you putting aside?

So, um his income pays for all of the bills. All of my income just goes into savings. So, I make about $1,400 a month cuz I work part-time since we had our son. So, you've got the 1,400 and then you've got the 3,000 You've got the 3,000 that's already there. So, have you ever had a car something happen with your car that cost more than $4,400 to fix?

Not yet. I hope I don't. Will you go and

Google something that you think will cost $4,400 to fix? Cuz I don't think it's there.

Yeah, I don't think so either. So, do you see what I did there? All I did was I took a fear that's okay for you to have, totally normal, and I just ran it through a process of saying, "First off, is it true? Is it rational?" We decided it is.

That's fine. And then we said, "Is there something that's more true that we can replace it with so that we can actually go ahead and do the thing that's going to set us free?" Do you see what I did there? Yes. >> There is not something that you cannot cash flow in the next month.

Do you see what I'm saying? And then as you go, you're going to keep saving like Ken said.

Um it's $497 a month. >> Okay, let's round Let's round that up to 500 bucks. What's the student loan payment?

Um like 180. Okay. Let's round that up.

I'm going to round that up to 700 bucks on top of your 1,400. Now all of a sudden we've got 2,100 a month we're putting straight to savings to rebuild the emergency fund that you did out of order. Plus your 3,000 that's there.

>> 3,000. So, we're at 5,100 within 30 days of being debt-free. 5,100 in savings.

So, what else could happen in 30 days that you that that the sky would fall? I can't think of anything that insurance wouldn't pay for. Do you see what I'm saying? So, now we see it was okay. It was okay for you to feel scared. It was okay.

But now we go, "Hey, that Now that we add it to the truth of what's really going on, now it becomes irrational, right?" It would be silly for you not to pay off this debt. And I think you guys have more margin than you're even reporting to us cuz we're not digging.

And so, how quickly could you guys get to $10,000 in savings after paying all of this off in one fell swoop? That's That's another fun exercise. How quickly can I get to 10,000 so that your fear gland, you know, stops being so, you know,

and we just like, oh, it relaxes. So, I you know, that's what we're going to tell you to do. It's what we tell everybody to do.

Pay it off. Pay it off. And what you want to know what I'm giving you permission to do?

>> Pay it off and in 2 months if it was the worst thing you ever did, call me back and tell me about myself.

Call me back and and and say, "Hey, Jade said I could come on the radio and cuss her out for the terrible advice she gave me." You won't do it cuz you're going to be like, "This is the best thing ever.

I'm debt free and I've got 3 to 6 months of expenses and I'm so glad that Jade and Ken talked me into doing the next best step with my money instead of me letting fear hold me back." That's what's going to happen.

It sounds good. Yeah, sounds good.

But it doesn't feel good. And that's your challenge. And I'm going to tell you right now, I think you're on the fence.

I think you're on the fence as to whether or not you're going to do this. >> She's going to go home and she's going to mull it over and and I expect you to.

All right? I think you would be kind of crazy to just Two people on the radio told me to do something, I'm doing it.

No, go go be I want you to be very thoughtful about what we told you. I want you to think about it and if you give it fair thought, I promise you you will see that we're right.

You'll see that we're right. >> And my husband uses the the app the EveryDollar app and he has

showed me numerous times what our what our leftover money would be if we didn't

have these debts and um is the fears are louder than the

positives of it but at the same time

like you said, I need to be realistic about if Well, fear Fear and caution are two different things. Fear and caution are two different things. Fear is what's going to stop you. It's a It's I don't know what's It's a It's a perception of the future that's negative. That's what fear is. It's not based on today. It's based on what you think's going to happen in the future, right?

Right. >> Quick question. What's the amount

that you would let go of today to to get rid of debt? Of the 30,000, how much would you go, "Oh, I'll let go of this and I'll feel fine." I'm just curious.

I would pay off the auto loan.

Let's do that today and then sleep on the rest of the idea. How about that? >> that. How about that? >> I like that. That's fair. Yeah, I think that's fair. >> Do 18 and then take Jade up on her offer.

Okay. >> You didn't know I was going to do that to you. >> that, Ken. I'm with it.

I like it. Let's try it. >> steps.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us today. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. New Jersey is where we're going to go and James is hanging out there. James, how can we help?

Hey Ken and Jade, can you hear from you both? Uh thanks for taking my call. So,

I was just laid off from my corporate job about 3 weeks ago and the good news is I have a decent severance package where I'll be okay for at least the next 6 months give or take, not too much than that. And I have a fully funded emergency fund.

After hearing about that, my pastor actually asked me to help him with a new startup basically that he's launching.

It's a for-profit business but the streaming service it's a streaming service. It's all pre-revenue. Still waiting to final finalize details on investors but right now, they have no money to play pay employees basically.

Uh it has a pretty promising future that I can't really talk too much more about but the team that is currently quote unquote employed with the service all have other jobs and other forms of income. I would basically be the only one that would be working full time um without any alternative income other than the severance package. So, I guess my question is if I were to pursue this, I'm not as concerned about my finances cuz it it seems to be okay at least for the next 6 months but if I'm devoting 40 hours a week to the startup with literally no contract, no employment agreement, no guarantee about eventually being compensated, it's all based on like a very loose verbal agreement and even that was kind of unclear.

No, I'm not going to listen any further cuz I'm I'm it's like food's threatening to come up. You know, I hear this and I'm getting I'm getting more and more sick to my stomach hearing this idea. There is nothing There is nothing good about this. >> No, you're volunteer which by the way, you can volunteer Sure.

week.

Uh whatever extra time you have to say, "Hey, in good faith, Sure. uh I'll I'll

do what I can when I can

and uh let's hope this thing gets funded and it turns into something. But you're protecting yourself. The other thing is is and again, I we always answer questions, what would we do if we were in your shoes. Uh Jade will weigh in here on her take.

But if I'm you, I'm thrilled I have a 6-month severance but I don't want to touch that. Right.

>> want to live off that. Now, that's just me. So, I'm going, "All right, I was laid off from a corporation so I've got a lot of skill and a lot of experience." True or false?

Yeah, true. >> Okay. And nothing to be ashamed of. This is not a stain on you. The economy's really weird right now. It's the best way I can describe it. It's not hot. It's not awful. Uh but jobs and corporations, I mean, we're seeing a lot of layoffs. We're seeing a a very slow hiring market. So, I'm not looking at today's wins and going, "Man, I feel great about 6 months." I'm going, "I want to treat my plight as though I

don't have any severance at all and I got just enough money in the bank to make it a month, Jade. So, maybe I'm mindset is I got 30 days so that I'm not I don't want to be running around like Chicken Little, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

But I would be very urgent and I would not give these people any time um that

would take away from your ability.

Everybody else has got a 40-hour week job. Ding ding ding, so do you need one

and I would be My number one focus is getting back into the job market and getting employed and we'll see how this

thing with my good pastor. And I'm going to say something else just because and I'm going to give it a disclaimer and I want Jade to come in and give her take. My disclaimer is I don't know anything about your pastor and I don't know anything about this business. But there was enough in that to make me go, "There ain't nothing about what you told me that makes me think this is anywhere remotely close to a sure

thing." And so for that reason, I'm definitely out and I would just help out and see if it turns into something.

Sorry for being a little cynical, Jade, but that's where I sit. >> you turned this into Shark Tank when you said, "For that reason, I'm out." And

I'm going to take a page from that notebook and Mr.

Wonderful would say there's some ideas you just need to take them out back and shoot them.

Yep, this is one of them and for that reason, I'm out.

And And what are your thoughts on his urgency? Oh, you know what? I I feel like he's a little too relaxed You're a little relaxed but I I think that

I'm sensing that you're relaxed because you know you can go out and get another job today or tomorrow. Like you're a smart guy. You were good at what you did. I don't think you're concerned with that. My bigger question is uh is that

the type of work you want to do anymore and is that why you were looking towards something like this as kind of a lifeline of, you know, I don't know if I want to do the same kind of work anymore. This kind of seems cool. My question is is it time for a career shift? Is that what this is really about? That would be my question on a deeper level. Ken? Yeah. James, I mean, it sounds to me like you got

I don't know.

You've gotten swayed by your pastor who you look up to and he's pretty excited about this.

That's what I think has happened and it's kind of a shiny object that's distracted you. Correct?

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, like he he didn't say we're never going to pay you. He he just literally has been juggling this whole project from >> there's no business plan. There's no timeline. There's no There's nothing.

>> You don't have to defend him. We're not attacking him. We're just saying for you right now, this is a shiny object that could distract you. To your credit, you called us to ask us what we think and we're saying, "Don't pay attention to the shiny object. Keep walking." Let's walk forward. Let's see if this thing materialize.

Yeah. Got it? I mean Sure. Go ahead.

>> Um The one way I think of it is just like I was even considering like going to actually Bible College. I'm a single guy, no kids, no mortgage, nothing like that.

do ministry and still have an income.

Yes, and you could also decide to go be a full-time missionary and make a lot less money. Yeah. I don't have a problem with that. That's not what you gave us.

You gave us this, well, there's this opportunity and now you're saying it's a cross-section and I'm saying it might very well be. It is not now. So, if you

as a single guy, you want to kick the tires and consider mission work or ministry work, great. Go for it, but that's a full-time job that um if you have to change your lifestyle to meet that new salary, I'm fine with that.

But this this other deal is not any of those things. >> I agree.

Yeah, fair enough. It's a super exciting volunteer job.

So, treat it that way. How much time can you give it uh in in line with everything else that you need to do and what you need to do is figure out what God has for you next.

Here's what I'm going to do for you. I would love to gift you my book and it comes with the assessment to get clear career assessment. The book's called how Excuse me, find the work you're wired to do. I recommend you take the assessment and read this book.

Take about 45-minute read. It'll really help you make some good decisions about how you're wired and what the next steps are for you. So, hang on the line and uh we'll get you that that book and the assessment. So, this this wasn't about a good business idea.

>> I think he's I think you nailed it. I think he's been kicked out of the nest and he's like, okay. He's clearly not on fire financially. >> Mhm.

He's got 6 months where he can breathe. >> Mhm. And here comes this thing that is a shiny object. It's attached to ministry, his church, his pastor.

It's all aligning with his heart. >> Mhm. And I love that, but we need to use our head, too. That's right.

>> And uh I'm a fan of getting the heart and the head aligned. So important. Then your hands do what they need to be doing. That's right.

So, uh you know, again, you're in great shape here. Uh but make wise decisions.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely

preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids, pregnant and has and didn't have life insurance and it and I'm like, I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills How am I going to eat next week? >> Yeah, how in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

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[Music]

Angela joins us next in Mississippi.

Angela, how can we help?

Hi Ken and Jade, thanks for um speaking with me today. I um was calling

specifically um about some advice on

instilling contentment at um a young age. Um a little context. We have a 6 and 1/2-year-old daughter in first grade and

my husband and I um we have financially

decided to invest in her future um and

sent her to a private Christian education and so that's where a large part of our income goes every month.

And um we are already seeing a keeping up with

the Joneses issue arising.

Um so, she's in first grade, she's coming back and she wants what her friends have.

I can name a few examples, but they're

really creepy little fuzzy keychain critters and it's little things like that where she You know what I'm talking about.

>> Yeah, I do. Um it it's little things like that where we had no intention of getting her one or

anything like that, but and quite honestly, she didn't even know what it was until she went to school >> Sure, right. and everybody else had them. So, we see this problem arising of even

as she gets older of going to school and you know, wanting what all the quote-unquote cool kids have or you know, what they have. >> going to happen. That's going to happen no matter what regardless of what school they go to.

Yeah.

Um and so, we were my husband and I were just wondering, how do we start teaching her contentment now before it gets bigger? Um we we've done FPU for kids with her

and so she's super excited about her envelopes and has like the biggest heart, loves to save, loves to give. Um

also really loves to spend. And so, how

do we transition this into just being content

with you with with what you already have because saying, oh, well, just be grateful for what you already have. You know, not all kids have X, Y, Z. You know, that only goes so far with a 6-year-old. Yeah, listen.

I am Angela, I am in that boat with you right now. I have a kid in second grade.

I have a kindergartner and I have I am having those same conversations all the time. And you want to know what I think part of it is is when you're a kid, I mean, you're born selfish, right? It's give me my food when I'm ready, you know, everybody does everything for me.

The world kind of revolves around them and they when they see something they want, they want it and especially if their friends have it, they want it, too. So, part of that's just the nature of being a kid. And I I'll tell you where I'm at now. I don't know that I'm right cuz I'm not ahead of you. Ken can probably give us some better judgment here, but where what I'm at right now is I feel like I'm planting seeds.

So, if I'm planting the seeds, I usually don't see the crop for quite a while and it can be tempting to think that if I plant the seed then tomorrow I'll see the fruit and it's just not like that. So, I've kind of told myself I'm telling them, hey, the things are things aren't what make you happy. This is going to you know, uh you've got to be you've got to learn to be happy with what you have. You don't have to look at other people, right?

I can plant all of those seeds and then I've got to just wait for them to grow. And then the other part for me is what am I How What am I like?

a person that every time I go to the store I have to buy something? Am I a person that every time I see something, I'm commenting on it and saying, oh, I wonder Let's see, I wonder if I can get that, right? I also have to check myself and make sure what am I putting into the house? Cuz if I'm a person who seems like every time I walk in the house I have shopping bags, well, then I'm not really helping my case here.

So, that's where I'm at.

Well, you got part of it right. I'm the old owl. I don't know how wise I am, but our kids are our kids are 20, 17, and 16 and my wife Stacy did a phenomenal job um on this

and I can tell you some of the things that we did and I I would tell you

um at this age uh 6 years of age, you're going to have to show more than tell.

I like what Jade said. I do think I do think you have the object lesson and I think you share uh sound bite cuz that's all a 6-year-old's going to pay attention to.

Right. >> But I will tell you that as consistently as you can, a short little bumper sticker response when she says that, just go, you know what? You're going to learn one day we can't have everything we want. Some little Whatever you want to say.

Trust your instinct and say it, but it's not in a sit-down lecture cuz the 6-year-old just can't process it. What I mean by show not tell is some some of the things that Stacy did we we did this early on when the kids were about that age, six or seven. We started dialing back on Christmas.

And we would do three equally great gifts. In other words, we got their list

and instead of 10 things, we gave them three. So, it was less than they wanted and that was an object lesson. They they were like, "Oh." But, all three gifts were awesome. And then we told them that they had to take one of their three gifts and they had to choose a child at the Children's Hospital to give it to and we took them to Children's Hospital in Atlanta and they had picked out one of

their three amazing gifts and they gave it to a kid who was very very sick and that was That was a that was something that again, no credit there. That was a older couple told us that and we did that for about three or four years. And I will tell you that that taught our kids as much as anything that we ever told them.

Tell us the first be 100% real. The first year you did that, how did they take it? What did they do? Well, they're young enough to where it's not a complete attitude thing. Like, I wouldn't recommend you throw this on 11 and 12-year-olds cuz at that point it's like I'm not saying the horse is out of the barn, but it's a lot of attitude you got to deal with. But, what you know, a kindergartner and a second grader?

What are we What are we doing? Like, they needed some clarification. You're telling me that I got to pick one of these three and we're going to give it and we were like, "Yeah, we're going to." >> Did they think they were getting in trouble? Did they read it as a consequence? No, I think they got it conceptually until they went down to Children's Hospital and they walked a gift in and they personally handed it to a different kid and I think they got it.

And I I think we could have done that uh in a lower income area.

It doesn't have to be a Children's Hospital, but the idea is show not tell

and you're trying you cuz your question Angel was how do we teach contentment?

And the way I think you teach contentment is you show them how good they have it, not tell them how good they have it. Show them. And so, that's that's what you you can take that and ideate and do your own version of that.

>> to do exactly that. But, I here's what it did. When they weren't thrilled.

I'm sure they weren't. I'm thinking about what my kids would do. I know Angela is thinking about what her daughter is going to do. But, but they weren't thrilled, but here's the thing.

They they understood it.

It made it not just about them. Yeah, it wasn't Mom and Dad are trying to ruin Christmas. It was Mom and Dad are trying to show us that there are people in this world that are my age that look a lot like me uh and they they are in a worse situation

than me and I'm giving them out of my goodness, I'm giving them some of the goodness in my life. I do think that

plants a very important seed.

Wow. >> Yes, I agree. That's so good. I'm thinking about it.

It's tough, by the way, as a parent. Let me also say it's not easy to say that.

>> Oh my god. Well, I'm I'm putting myself in you guys' shoes right now cuz you want to know I'll tell you Angela what I was thinking as Ken was saying that.

Next thing I'm thinking is well, when you got back home I'd want to have another gift sitting there waiting for them. >> that's not >> Then it takes away from it. I know.

And keep in mind >> question about it was um at our church

uh my daughter is really excited about the the Angel Tree or the Giving Tree of

adopting a family um and buying things for them and we've explained like these are families that, you know, if it weren't for us, they wouldn't have anything for Christmas and maybe they just need some clothes and and she gets

super like she wants to go buy the whole store for them and give them the world.

And so, that that desire is there

and but I'm wondering if that's just a little less effective than what you just brought up. Now, something that was hers that she's giving >> what I would tell you. Does she get an allowance of any type?

Uh no, we don't do allowances. We do commissions for her earning her money.

>> okay, great. Sorry. Yeah, I used Yeah, Dave hates allowances. Okay, here's my point. >> fine. I would take her commissions and say you're going to to adopt a family out of your money.

Like, get her money in the game. I think it's just as powerful as the lesson as what I shared. That was just one idea.

The idea is we're modeling Well, that's my point. If she takes her commission and she goes and buys the gifts and then hands it to the little girl in their family, the point is they need to see others that are not Listen,

kids can pick up on ooh, they don't have it as good as us. They need to see it and feel it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Hey, if you all are getting something out of the show, it's helping you uh we would love for you to help us. The best way to grow our show is for you uh to share because you have so much credibility. So, like, share, subscribe, however you're listening, wherever you're listening and give us all the ratings, the follows, all the things. I can't keep up with it anymore, but you know what they are. We would appreciate that so much. Chloe is joining us now in Houston, Texas.

Chloe, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's going on today? Um my mom recently passed and before this I

was >> Thank you. Um I was kind of just Tell us what happened. on a journey.

Um I was on a journey of just working on my baby steps before this blow.

Um so, now I'm just trying to navigate. Um I have six younger siblings. They're they're minors.

And um you know, I'll be taking them on uh full-time. So, I'm just trying to figure out as far as like Bless you. her home goes.

Um we you know, we did have some conversations before she passed and she was wanting to get a bigger house to fit the kids. Um and she does still have a mortgage.

So, I don't know if it would be smarter for me to keep the home and just keep paying on it or you know, sell it and you know, of course pay the mortgage company off and What is your What is your living situation? Do you own a home or are you renting?

Uh no, I'm I'm renting, but I mean my lease is up next month. So, Can you even uh put all of the siblings in there with you? Is there enough room?

No, not in my apartment, no. I will be

letting this apartment go and um

trying to figure out, you know, this with my mom's house. What's What's What's the mortgage on your mom's house?

Um she owes 65. Okay. Okay and it's like

1,200 a month or something like that.

Did she did did you get the house? Is that been or is that still up in the air as to who who gets the house now that she's not no longer with us?

Um no, I I would be getting the home.

Okay. What's your current rent?

>> Yeah.

Um my current I I don't really have

rent. Um my partner, he works for Got it.

company. Okay, so would Also, it's a company apartment that he's getting?

Right, right. Okay, so tell me tell me

about your income, just you.

Um just me, I'm making 68k um in salary,

but I'm also working two part-time jobs, which I I probably won't be doing them for long now. It just just happened.

Okay. Um they only make like 500 every week.

Now, let me make sure I understand. You're working two part-time jobs in addition to the $58,000 job?

Yes. Look at you. What What are you doing that for? What's What's all that hustle for?

Um she had been sick for a while and I was kind of just helping with bills, but I also wanted to pay, you know, some of my debt off. So, I started this about 2 months ago. Good for you. I'm so impressed with your hustle. What kind of debt do you have?

Honestly, I don't have a lot of debt. Um my car is like 21,000

um and then I do have a student loan for 10,000 and then collections is like 4,000, multiple things in that amount.

Okay. It's like 4,000. So, the good news is let's say okay, you just at your base job, you're make you're bringing home 4,000 bucks a month, yes?

Yeah, just about, yeah. >> Okay. And let it if you did pick up a a smaller you let maybe you let two of the three side hustles go, right? The good news is the mortgage is right at 25% right where you want it to be. So, that's not a terrible thing. It's just a getting accustomed to a life where you're paying rent or paying a mortgage, right? Um Right. Then from there, there

should still be a little bit um you're going to have to adjust to what it's going to be like to support six siblings. Can you tell us the ages of the siblings?

Um 5, 7, 13, two 15-year-olds, and a

16-year-old. Okay. And is the 5-year-old in kindergarten yet?

Yes. >> Okay. So, everybody's in school 8 hours a day. That is >> you have aftercare? I mean, what How will this affect your ability to do your job for the youngsters?

Um So, I would probably have to let the app like

My part-time jobs are usually like evening times through the night. So, I would have to let those go because they get out of school around like 4:30, you know. So, um So, you can So, this won't The point is is this uh taking care of of of the little ones that are, you know, obviously need uh supervision, uh you can keep your $58,000. That's not going to affect that job at all, just the two part-time.

No. Right. Okay, good. So, I love you getting rid of the two part-time jobs, at least in the short term, just to see what this new rhythm is going to be like.

Bless your heart.

>> You really are. >> You're amazing. Wow. I mean, I got to believe that I mean, I got to believe you you knew this was coming, right? You said she was sick for a while. Had you thought about this day

and kind of started thinking about what that would mean for you, or is this all hitting you suddenly?

Uh we definitely weren't expecting her to to pass like anytime soon. We were

hoping for her to recover.

Um but I did think about if this did happen, what that would look like. Mhm.

So, Okay. Yeah. How long ago did she pass?

Um on the 1st. So, that is it's very recent. It's the >> Oh, Chloe, bless your heart. You are just going through it right now.

We're so so sorry.

>> Yeah, that's so so tough, but you're You are rising to the occasion in um some very amazing ways right now. Um

Thank I mean, on behalf of all the siblings, I'm just saying thank you because somebody needed to step in, and the fact that you are is so incredible.

Um Let's talk about this house, though.

That's the big question she called in with. She can afford it.

>> She can't. How Where's the Where's your partner come in on this, you know?

>> Uh Um He's He's fully on board. He's been

in the family, and we went to high school together. So, he he knows my

family really well, and they they love them. How old are you?

I am 30. Okay. Okay. Just double-checking. Uh Which way Chloe, which way were you leaning before you called us as it relates to this house? What were you leaning towards doing? I know this is all super fresh.

I honestly wanted to get a bigger house due to the fact that I a lot of work needs to be put into the house, and I thought about that every which way, you know, AC needs to be replaced, foundation is messed up. Okay.

There's a lot of different things that need to be done in the home.

Um and I just rather than putting that money into it, I'd rather just sell it as is and Right.

>> just move forward. You don't need a project in your life right now.

Uh knowing that, what do you think?

Well, now my question goes to to money.

Do you have any money saved?

Unfortunately, no. Not anymore. I mean,

I have like the $1,000 saved, but all of rest of that what I what I did have saved, I've had to spend it on her funeral arrangements. So, that has Thank God. Here's my savings, please. >> Here's I'm going to tell you just some mathematics.

This is not emotional at all. I look at a $65,000 mortgage that likely has a really great interest rate on it, and I think the like I think to myself, I'd rather be on the hook for $65,000 and have to replace a roof and maybe do $10,000 of work on a foundation, or if even $20,000 of work on a foundation, than getting into today's housing market where you're at now with the median home price being $424,000 where you're going to have to put 60% down, right? That

mathematically >> Yeah, I agree with you. Is it livable, though, Chloe? I mean, in other words, all those things are true, but could you live in it for a season until you guys got out of this, learn what this new rhythm of life looks like, figure out what what we can do to fix it. Is it livable?

Um

It's livable, but I would have to like for sure like the plumbing part of it.

Um And and some other like minor things that you'd have to get >> Cuz how My point My point is you can't get into another house today. That's my point. >> I wonder if she just rents, and we tell a lot of people renting is a good move in certain situations, and I wonder if she gets this headache out of her life, uh and doesn't have to worry about it on top of everything else, having to come in and mother these uh siblings. She's in grief.

>> rent something that's no more than 25 to 30% of your take you know, what you're taking home, I'm okay with that and selling this and taking the money, if there is, and holding that over for a later time. That's Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I just think this is a tough reset.

A whole new life for her, and I don't think having a a a money pit of a house is a good play. >> That's true.

[Applause]

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Shady in Colorado. Shady, how can we help you today? Hi, Ken and Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm I must admit, I'm a little bit starstruck. I enjoy listening to the Dave Ramsey show. Well, we are appreciative of you listening, and I know that you're starstruck because Jade is here, and trust me, she's very down

to earth. She's going to treat you very well. Thank you. Yeah, you bet. What's going on? Um well, I um so, I'm in the in the midst of trying to I guess move to a tran uh transition to a employment that

I really feel is a good connection for me with my abilities and gifts and everything. I did read I did take your assessment, Ken.

Um I'm still working on reading your book, but I did take your assessment, so I do have a better idea of my giftings and everything. >> Do you have your results close by in case I want to ask about it? I do.

>> Okay. We'll just hold. I don't know that we need to get to it yet, but we might.

Okay. All right. So, um so, with that in mind, I um

I I am subbing right now. I'm a day-to-day sub. Sometimes I get long-term sub assignments. I make about, we'll say, 40,000 a year, um an average of three 30 3,300 a month. Um I I enjoy

subbing, but I my I really love creating, and I I am uh I love writing like poems, songs. Um

I'm right now um partner hope maybe partnering with a publishing company to um do a store like take some of my po one of my poems and make it a uh story. Um and it's a it's about a national park that I visited. And so, but the cost of

that is um 8,500. And so, and I have had

a couple of songs produced, which, you know, like it costs money for that, too, but this one is kind of a big chunk of money um to get this my poems made into

a book. So, I'm I'm a little hesitant because I have 12,000 in savings. Um it's 8,500 to work with this um publishing company, and I um I I make

about right now without a long-term sub assignment, um just day-to-day subbing, I make we'll say about 2,000 a month, Are you single Are you single income?

I am single income. Yeah, I um I am single income. I um I do live with um my mom. I lived on my own for about 7 years when my dad passed away. Uh shortly after I ended up moving you know, I moved in with my mom. She She you can use the support and the help, and um yeah. How How old are you?

I'm 44. Okay. Do you have any debt?

I don't. Thank Thanks to Dave Ramsey and

And the 12K and the 12K in savings, does that represent your emergency fund?

That is accessible, so it's kind of whatever it whatever I need it for, I can grab it. But I also have about Oh, go ahead. I just want to make sure do you have an emergency fund?

Is the emergency fund the $1,000? So, baby step one is the $1,000 before you pay the debt off. You said you don't have any debt, which means baby step three, you have 3 to 6 months saved. So, does this represent 3 months of expenses? 6 months? >> Yeah. Okay. Well, you would have that in there because your $2,000 a month is what you're making? Yeah, exactly. And what I can live off of. Okay.

All right. I have enough information. Um I don't think you should spend $8,500

on anything Okay.

>> at this stage.

Um uh given your income, uh I'd like to see

you have way more in savings um cuz you have such a small income.

Uh in in other words, I would want you saving for other things. Right? Like sinking funds.

Um and I I won't get too far into that.

I'll let Jade And maybe she doesn't think it's too much. Let me tell you why I think it's too much. Okay. $8,500

is such a huge chunk of your savings.

You just don't have it. So, that's my number one. So, we we don't want to ever put um the emergency fund into any kind

of trouble and we should never pull from the emergency fund unless it is in fact an emergency. And you've got at least six grand in there we're saying is 3 months. So, so the other thing is is both of us are published authors, okay?

Um and I know a lot of people in the publishing game. I know the independent publishing game. I know just enough to get me in trouble, which means just enough to give you good advice on this.

Okay, good. I don't think you're at a stage of life where you need to be spending $8,500 to publish a book of your poems when you can go do it on Amazon for pennies on the dollar. And let's show our work. There's a great book that I'm going to recommend you buy. And it's by a guy by the name of Austin Kleon. K L E O N and it's called Show

Your Work. And uh it's about half an

inch thick, can read it in 30 minutes.

It's very illustrative. As a creative, you will love it. But it is my homework assignment for you as to what you need to do before you ever think of spending this kind of money with a pseudo or

hybrid publishing model. Let's let's get the your work out through uh self-publishing means that

are max hundreds of dollars at max. And let's

put our work out and see how they do.

And and let's let's show our work and see where we stand.

Um instead of spending at this stage of your burgeoning writing career and where you are financially, I don't like this move cuz I think here's what's going to happen. I think you're going to spend $8,500 and you're going to sell just as many copies as you would if you spent $85.

Okay. Now, that sounds like I'm stepping on the dream. >> No, it doesn't. >> Oh, okay. Thank you cuz I feel that way, but I'm actually I'm telling you from experience. Yeah.

>> You would be better off doing research and going, all right, um what is the process for creating an ebook of my poems on Amazon and selling on Amazon? You got a link. Yeah, please do it that way. Sell it through social media. Yes. Let's just test it.

>> have to sell a zillion copies before you break even on the 8,500 you spent.

>> That's right. >> Okay. So, I agree with Ken. Um you have

12,000 saved. You have any other money in retirement, anything? I do have about 20,000 in retirement. Okay. Um

I want to take a stronger approach. Do I have permission? Sure. I think that you need to take a

long look in the mirror because when you

started telling us, you were kind of making it seem like, hey, I'm living with my mom, she needed my help, she went through this thing, and that may be true, but without her, you couldn't be living right now.

If you weren't living there >> be tight. >> no. No, no. No. $2,000 a month, ma'am,

you can't live on that. And you can't do that subbing here and there. So, you got to make this a full-time deal. Now, I'm all about chasing dreams. All of You're talking to the creative herself. Like, I love what you said about the poems and I I love that for you. I would never try to take that from you. But in the meantime, you must work. You must because you're 44.

Right. >> And you will look up and the time will come when you can no longer do the work you want to do because your body won't let you do it and you've got to have something there. And you've got to create that foundation now. You've got time. I'm not saying you don't have time, but if you don't start moving, it that window to make this right gets smaller and smaller and smaller and I don't want you to miss that window.

Okay. Well, I didn't think I was going to be crying. I'm sorry. I love you. I love you. That's why I'm telling you.

Listen, we're not trying to discourage you. We're trying to encourage you.

Don't let the creative stuff die.

Yeah. >> got to test it. If you had called me and said, I want to spend $8,500 to open up a food truck where I'm going to sell some type of food, I would have said the exact same thing. I'd have been like, let's see if we can sell it in our neighborhood first.

You know, we we've got to test test test. What most people don't think about in this wonderful country called America where we can start anything at any time, Yeah. we don't think about the testing part. We just think about the launching part.

And we've got to test.

So, please be encouraged, but listen, Jade's right and I think she was the one person that could say it. Um you know, what are your relationship dreams? You don't have to answer these questions. But but what are your relationship dreams?

And and what are you doing to to live your life the way that you want to live? And you don't have to necessarily do this on your own. And and there is a time and a place to fully launch into something like poems or whatever. Keep writing.

Keep writing about what moves you. And then show your work and I promise you, please get that book and do exactly what Austin tells you. Super easy functional way for you to test your stuff and see what other people say. And see if the stuff that moves my heart, oh, some of the stuff that moves my heart moves other people's hearts.

Ding ding ding. Now we've got something. And in the meantime, let's go get a really good job. >> Yes.

And let's stay with mom just long enough to really get on our feet and let's get out in the real world, you know? Yeah, my my mom has a condition where I probably it'll be indefinite. Um but That's okay. That's Yeah.

You can stay and take care of her, but don't let that stop you from launching into making a full salary.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Dustin is going to start us off here in New York.

Dustin, how can we help today?

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. You bet. What's going on?

Well, I have a question about housing and budgeting. So, let me give you a little bit of context. My wife and I are in our early 30s. We've been working baby steps. Uh we've been married about 2 years and in about a year and a half mark, we paid off we finished paying off around 70,000 worth of debt. >> Way to go.

Oh, thank you. Um and so, we currently live in a one-bedroom co-op in the Hudson Valley, which costs us around $1,600 a month.

So, uh with that in our budget, we're able to uh save between 3 and 4,000

dollars a month and we've been doing that since we got married.

Um and so, we're about to have We have a

7-month-old now and in the coming May,

we're going to have our second child.

And so, that's a lot of people to put in a one-bedroom apartment.

>> Yeah. So, to Yeah, to get to a bigger place, it would be about $2,400 a month at least in this area just cuz it's the Hudson Valley. Um and so, in our child care costs are likely to go up in the coming August

once paternity and maternity leave is done. And so, um my question is like, do

we do we stick it out here cuz our long-term plan is to move out of state in about 2 years once my mother-in-law retires. And so, we're saving up for a down payment, but in the meantime, >> That's my question. Indiana. We want to go to Indianapolis.

Into in about 2 years?

In about 2 years. >> How much money you got saved up?

Um so, we currently have around 17,000

uh saved up. Um we just finished paying

off all of our debt, so we're like we're just getting started on that saving process. But you're saving a lot per month, which is great.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And our living situation really helps with that. And you know, we got family nearby and all that. So, it's the location is good.

It's just the the square footage is not great. Yeah. Um and so, um you know, do

I do I sell our co-op in the the meantime so that during that 2-year waiting period, we can have a you know, more expensive but larger place? Or do we just kind of stick it out in the the one-bedroom with four people? I mean, if I would what I would do is I'd stick it out for as long as I possibly can because the more that you can save on your living is the more money that you can save for a potential down payment.

And I don't have to tell you, you're you need a lot of money saved for a down payment these days, right? So, the more that you can get uh saved in the next 2 to 2 and 1/2 years, that would be my number one goal. As a matter of fact, I'd run it back and say, "Okay, um based on Indianapolis home prices and based on what we want >> Which I got you over here whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready.

>> We're going to plug that in, and then we're going to run it back and say, "Okay, what must be true for us to move in?" And then that's the that that is the sil- the the silver bullet of what we're saving for in the next 2 to 2 and 1/2 years. So, can >> All right, I'm going to I'm your assistant. I'm giving you some numbers here. >> Well, I don't My computer died, so I don't have it.

>> I got you. That's what I'm here for. That's what I'm here for.

I did three-bedroom cuz it's going to feel like a castle to him. Um aw, I love hearing the little one in the background. That's real. We like that, folks. Um 230 to 299. 230 up to approximately

230,000 to 299,000. Some specifics, if

you look at Marion County uh cuz I typed in greater Indianapolis area. >> Okay. So, I'm giving So, this is just what This is the homework you need to do, my friend. But, you got Marion County median price is 229, Hendricks

County median price is 303, uh Johnson

County median price is 298.

>> So, let let's >> other surrounding. So, you you're you're in that 230 to 300,000.

>> then let's add a little inflation to that. Let's say 240.

Right? That's what I would say cuz this is 2 and 1/2 years from now. So, you say 240, and then knowing that what you're attempting to do is is put 25% down,

then you can go in and plug in estimated taxes and insurance and all of that, and that number is what you need to be

Well, I got him I got him at If you guys continue to save, if I was listening correctly, you were saving 3 to 4,000 a month. >> Mhm. Uh you guys can have a shot at getting close to 100,000. Just your savings, not including any equity in the co-op, right? Correct. Yeah, so I I What's your equity in the co-op?

Uh we think, based upon comps that I've run in the area, that I can get around

54 50 after the sale.

Um and so, that brings us pretty close

to that uh 20% down payment with what we have saved. >> Great. And we're targeting a house in Indianapolis or around the 300,000

uh mark. Great. >> Love that. >> That's very doable. And I'm with Jade then. Listen, the babies don't know. The This is going to be tough on you and Mom, but you know what? Two little babies, these are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone, and you're going to be like, "We did it." And I think since we're not asking the kids to suffer Mhm. you guys aren't really suffering, but it is a form of suffering. And I'm I'm with my partner on this one.

She Listen, she and Sam I brag about this. She and Sam had one car for how long? 10 years. >> And And how many years after you actually had the money to buy a car? >> Oh, long Let's see. We were done in 2018. I didn't buy a second car till we got here, which was 2022. Which I don't recommend. I think I think she's bananas, but she's the real deal. So, I'm I'm with Jade. I 100% would suck it

up. They're little ones.

It's going to be crazy anyway. 2 years is going to fly when you got two babies, you know. >> I know that's right. >> are long, but the years are short.

>> That's right. >> And I'm with Jade 100%. I I tough it out

and then make the triumphant entry into Indianapolis with a really really nice down payment. And by the way, cost of living there fantastic. So, man, you're going to feel like from Hudson Valley to the greater Indianapolis area Mhm. Oh, man.

What a change. Unless Okay.

>> Looking forward to that. No. Wait a second. Hold Hold on, Dustin. She's got an idea. >> No, it's not an idea. I I was just about to throw some bait into the water. Go for it. I was going to throw it.

>> said it's a really great cost of living there, and I was going to say unless everybody unless everybody in New York gets spooked and starts going to places like Indiana and Florida and >> Tennessee. Oh, yes. So, people raise their hands out there in the lobby. >> saying? Indiana is the new Tennessee.

Are you all leaving Are you all leaving upstate New York? I met you all earlier.

Is that what you did? Yeah. >> See? That's what I'm saying.

Now, I'm not trying to spook you, but I'm just saying the migration is real. They're more mature. Can we say that? They're a little bit more mature in age.

I'm just saying that there are predictions being made. I'm just saying about another great migration. >> Oh, well, we'll see. We'll see.

Times will tell. Now's the time, folks. I thought I was setting you That's why I said I was putting a line in the water. >> No, I'm not going to take it.

Well, I'll say this. I'll say this. I When people say they're going to leave this country based on some political change, number one, it's their right to say it. We saw a lot of celebs say it.

A few actually did it. >> Instead, they just went to Indiana.

The celebrities I'm thinking of. But, you know, listen, are people going to leave over stuff like that? You better believe it. We saw massive migration from California. We saw it here in middle Tennessee. Uh certainly a lot of people moving to Florida. Uh certainly going to happen. But, I I don't think and I'm and my my brother-in-law and sister-in-law live in Indianapolis, so I apologize ahead of time. Of all the places people are going to flee from New York, I don't think it's Indianapolis.

I'm not throwing shade at any of my friends. It's a nice area, sir. It's a lovely area, but it's not on the top of anybody's list. Is that fair?

Even he's acknowledging me. He's like, "Well, you make a good point. Lovely place to live. Is it a top destination?

I DON'T THINK SO. [Music]

[Music]

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Not available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Bailey in Maryland. Uh they say, "We currently have $7,500 in credit card debt and an

$800,000 home loan. Now, the home is worth $1 million. We have around 50,000 invested in single stocks to give to our kids when they are adults and out on their own. The kids are now 10 years old, and we are investing regularly for them.

On one hand, I feel like we should cash in these to put towards our debt.

However, I also know that time is such a huge factor uh in long-term investing, and I won't make that much of an impact on such a large debt. Uh we currently make $175,000 per year combined. What

should be our priority? Okay, so

the $7,500 in credit card debt, and it

sounds like that's the only consumer debt that you have, okay? The rest of it, $800,000 on the home loan, that is not part of baby step two. Baby step two

is we pay off everything except the house. So, on your salary of $175,000

per year, unless there's a typo on this, why don't you reach over yesterday and pay off the $7,500 in credit card debt?

Unless that's a typo, I don't understand where the problem is. Now, we can talk about how I think your money is best invested. It That's kind of beside the point right now, but no, you don't need

to liquidate that stock to pay off this debt. You can cash flow that in 2 seconds is my point. Now, if we keep going and we're talking about on down through the baby steps, do you need 3 to 6 months of expenses saved? Yes, you do.

Now, we can talk about is there any any money at our disposal that we can start to do this? If I were you, I would still

take my salary, and I would cash flow 3 to 6 months. Now, this money that you invested for your kids, if it were me, I

would pull it out of single stocks, and I would drop it in a 529 plan. That's what I would do. Because single stocks is not the best way to invest money anyway. Now, if you said, "Well, Jade, if I just invested in the market, I have more investments open that I can use, blah blah blah." If you wanted to park it in some sort of a brokerage, I suppose you could do that, but it's not the best tax advantage for you.

That's why I would do a 529. That's what I would do with this 50,000 invested. I would then turn around, cash flow 3 to 6 months, and then you're you're you're off to the races. And then baby step seven Baby step six is when you're going to pay off this home, okay?

You're going to be putting extra payments towards this mortgage for a long time until it's done, or, you know, paying a little here and a little there until it's done, but it's not something that you have to do in baby step two. I just want to be clear about that.

Yeah, good advice. I can't add anything to that. Um also, I want to mention our new EveryDollar is here. It's way more than the world-class budgeting app that we've been talking about.

I was meeting with the team the other day. I was like, "Hey, I want to get in on the inside of this thing." I'm looking at it, playing around with all the new features. And best I could come away with, I said, "Guys, this is this is literally like someone could get on the app, and with all the questions they're going to answer in the first 10 minutes, it's like talking to us on the air, but way more detailed and you get all kinds of content. They're like, that's exactly what it is.

So, fantastic stuff. And the average person finds thousands of dollars of margin in just the first 15 minutes. So,

start every dollar today for free by getting it in the App Store or Google Play. You know what? Let me run back what I said to Bailey and Marilyn. You know what? I'm thinking about it. I would You know, the 50,000 You have an $800,000 home. You need a 3- to-6-month emergency fund today. I probably would liquidate it and use that as my emergency fund and then restart with the 529s. All right. Final answer.

Final answer, folks. She has spoken.

Kevin is up in California. Kevin, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My question is I'm 21 in my final year of college with $50,000 and no debt. And I'm not really sure what to do, but I have a few options with my main one being real estate as my family is going to go 50/50 on the investment property if I figure out the whole the whole process in purchasing and going about the investment property.

Did you say 50 or 60,000?

Uh 50. 50, okay. And when do you finish

school?

I finish in May. Okay. And your degree is in business. And what do we want to do?

What are we looking for? What's that job we're looking for?

Um I'm going to be starting full-time in

the fall as a business analyst. Congrats. How much will you be making?

Um I want to say I'm very privileged and I'm very thankful, but around 120 to 130,000. Okay, great. And you have zero debt.

Zero debt. My family made a deal where if I go to community college for 2 years and then transfer to a four-year, they'll pay for my Great. two years in more. Wow. Okay, I just wanted to get a quick snapshot for Jade and I on your total financial picture so that we can now address the question. And if we can go back into the question, you've got the 50,000 in savings and and you're

going what what should I do with that?

Is that what I'm understanding?

Yeah, it's right now the 50,000 is invested in the market, but I don't really trust myself in the market cuz I've Yeah, I just don't really like the market. I'd rather How is it invested in the market? Be specific. Is this in a a mutual fund or is this in single stocks?

Sadly, I know it's terrible, but single stocks. Wow. >> Okay. All right. Well, it's not the end of the world here. It's just not the strategy. All right. Jade, jump in here.

So, what do you want to do? Is this a home for yourself or is this some kind of rental? Like what are you thinking?

I would want to see a rental.

Yeah, I want it to be a rental. Um can I ask why a rental and why not a place where you're just living?

Learning about what it means to own a home. Yeah, so because I'm going to be

graduating after I graduate, I'm planning on and again, like I'm very thankful for this, but living with my family with my parents because my job is I'm traveling like half the year and then the other half of the year my parents are traveling themselves.

And so I didn't see the point of having my own home even though all my friends are going to be living and moving out.

>> So, let me tell you what I would do. Knowing what you've said, I would combine the best of both worlds. I

This is and I'm going to ask more questions to make sure that you're in this position. But if you're in the position to buy, I would buy a home and I would make the home for me, but I would also have roommates.

And I would have roommates that live there so that while I'm traveling, I'm still bringing in income, but I also have this place that's my own that I'm building I'm learning what it is to to live in a home. I'm I've launched out of my parents' house. Do you see what I'm saying? So, you're getting the best of both worlds where you're feeling independent, but you're also still feeling like you're bringing in rental income. Does that make sense?

The only caveats to that are number one,

you would need to be able to pay the rent on your own or pay the mortgage on your own no problem even if you didn't have roommates. That'd be number one.

And then number two, you'd have to meet the normal criteria for what we would say is a proper home buying experience,

which is the payment's no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

Um you're out of debt, which you said you are, and you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses sitting aside.

Now, my screen says that you don't think you need an emergency fund. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, um I my my my parents are pretty um

involved in my life and if something were to take a turn for the worse, I think they'd be there for me. Why can't you be there for you, though? Why wouldn't we set ourselves up for you to be there for you?

Since you're I mean, you're 21.

Very true. Honestly, I just

That's that You got You got a great point. >> Can I ask a question cuz you've been very humble are. And I think you're I think you're being very very delicate here in how you choose your words. So, I'll ask, are your parents very wealthy?

I would I would say they're comfortable to a sense.

Okay, but they're not It's not a trap question because I wonder if if your parents are very very wealthy and they're saying to you pretty actively, hey, listen, do this, do this, we got you here, then it makes sense to all of your responses and I love that Jade's going, that is a blessing and you've got called it that, by the way.

But regardless of that blessing, you still need to establish your own life knowing that mom and dad are very generous and can be. So, don't want to put you on the spot with that, but that's what I'm sensing and I think Jade's advice is actually really really great. Thanks, mom and dad. You're amazing, but I want to find my own way, build my own way, and I want to do it in a way that's very responsible.

>> And if they're going to match your 50% on the down payment, I think that's wonderful for them to do that.

>> Yes.

[Music]

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Jade, I've been able to interview a lot of big-time authors. Mhm. And I always love to ask them, if there's only one thing that readers can take away from this book, What No One Tells You About Money, what is it that you want them to take away? Oh, one thing?

>> I know. It's like asking you to choose between your kids. Um >> But what's that if you go, okay, they read this book and can here's what I want them to be able to take away, to be able to do. Um I want them to be able to identify what it is that they're feeling um at the core of things because a lot of times it's just running in the background and it's influencing us and we don't know. Um behavior I I I explain it like this.

If behavior is the car, right? We want we want to we want to get out of debt. That's the behavior. Okay, I'm in the car. Our beliefs are in the driver's seat. I believe I can do it.

So, I'm ready to operate the vehicle.

But our emotions can steer us off track.

Emotions steer the wheel.

>> They can make us hit a tree. They make us go in a ditch. They can make us turn around and go the opposite direction.

And if you don't feel that, if you don't know it's happening and you don't even realize it, right? Can it's it's it's showing itself with you having arguments with your spouse just because they stopped off at the gas station to get a Mountain Dew on the way home. Why? Why are you getting so mad about that?

Why is it every time you go to the grocery store, you're worried that it's going to overdraw the account. So, all of these things are operating in the back. It's operating when everybody somebody brings up student loans and you just get mad as a snake, right? It's all back there and you need to be able to see what is it that causes me to be so passive-aggressive whenever somebody tells me something that they're winning at with money, right?

It's back there and you need to see what it is. I help you identify it and then I help you fix it so you can actually get on track.

I hope that you know that it comes from a very very real place. That it's not just another expert telling you something to do. It's someone who has stood in the mirror and cried and wondered what was wrong with their life and if they've ruined everything.

I've done that and so I want you to know it's coming from a person who's been exactly where you are, and that's why I can write about it and explain how to get out. So again, Ramsey Solutions

dot com /store. Pre-order it now. Comes out in first week of January. This is a fabulous gift, by the way, for that person who hasn't maybe decided to go all in on this uh process, uh but boy, if you can speak to their heart and and get to where they feel, ultimately you get an opportunity to help them change the way they act. So, this would be a great gift, by the way, for that person in your life that uh is struggling with money and can't figure out uh what they need to do next.

Uh Tyler's up in Oklahoma. Tyler, how

can we help today?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Yes.

What is going on?

Uh sorry, this is kind of surreal being on here. I've listened to you guys so much. It's crazy. Um so, this is kind of a kind of a lot.

I'll try to keep it brief. Um so,

I am in a uh a tough situation right now.

I was working away from home. Um

I was doing a truck a truck driver job, and um I was making pretty good money. I was trying to pay off some debts. I do have debt racked up. And um I'd been gone for a while, and my wife was kind of like, you know, you got to get home, and I wanted to be home.

And so, I found something back home that wasn't as good pay, but I took it, and then it kind of fell through. So, long story short, I'm I'm back home now with no job. I was making pretty good money. Now I have no income.

My wife doesn't work.

we're in a really tough spot there, and so, that's the first part. And then the second part is kind of like I hated the truck driving job anyway, and I don't really know where to go from here. I've I've been struggling for a while on like kind of finding my path.

I've listened to you a lot. I actually took your assessment. Um and but I just I still can't quite figure out like where I want to go.

>> have your assessment results near you?

I actually do. Yeah, I have them pulled up here. I can I can read them to you if you Yeah, let's let's This is we're going to get to that, but I'm going to go ahead and write it down. Uh okay, top three talents. What you do best?

So, I have logic, organization, and justice. >> Okay, hold on. Logic, organization,

and justice. Okay, all right. Top three passions.

Making, finishing, and analyzing.

Making, finishing, and analyzing.

All right. And what's your uh mission result? Uh creation. Oh, so you like to

create things. Okay, we're going to get back to that. Okay. Uh uh There's a lot.

Like I said, there's a lot. >> No, no, I know. Well, we got to we got to we got to deal with the urgent, right? And then we we we we got to win the now, and then we worry about the next. Yeah. Um you got to go to >> I've been applying for jobs and things like that. You know, I'm trying I know I've got to find something right now. >> have you been out of work?

Uh just uh week and a half. Okay, great.

I would go back to the truck um because that's that's there's a huge need in that area, and I know your wife doesn't like it, but we got bigger problems than how much time you're at home right now.

It's just bread and butter. >> And we just got to go where we know there's a need. And I appreciate that you're applying for jobs. Uh this becomes your full-time job, but while you're applying, um you're driving around construction sites. You're driving around anywhere where you've got a skill. If you've got a trade skill, in other words, if you're good with a hammer, or you're good with a shovel, you have got to start working, and I mean today. And if not today, tomorrow.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be going where I could get a check. We need to get checks coming in.

And when we get checks coming in, we take care of all of the basics, and we can breathe, which means we're allowed to think a little bit. And when thinking, we actually can think clearly with a thing like the assessment. So, I just want to cover that. I don't care what it is. What were you making driving the truck, by the way? I didn't ask that.

Uh I was making a little over three grand a week after taxes.

My man, that's a that's a good chunk of change. >> It sure is. >> money. It was good money, but you know, I've I've got three kids here at home, and I was gone for five months, and it was just >> Okay, but you can't sit at home and not work. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who who >> no, I know, but like >> better off with you on the road making 12 grand a month, or are they better off uh you at home with no money coming in?

No, I I I totally understand. I just It was really hard being away from home, and and thanks for kind of starting My my wife was struggling here. >> Okay. Uh all right, I get that. Let me meet you there. Let me meet you there.

But if you drove a Did you drive an 18-wheeler?

Yeah. Okay, you're qualified to drive a lot of large equipment beyond just a truck, is my guess. True or false?

Uh yes. Yeah. Dude, where's the need in

your area? This is not resumes. This is you driving up on sites.

I I know for a fact, cuz I pay attention to stuff every day, that the trucking industry, and I understand there's the long haul, but there's also regional, and then there's local stuff. And they need somebody they can depend on, and buddy, you got a great resume. And you got a good story, by the way.

and a guy hops out of the truck. If you got to go to a a a dagum uh truck stop,

and go, "Hey, I noticed you're driving a Coca-Cola truck, or a Pepsi truck, or a beer truck.

Are they hiring right now?" That's how we apply. And you go get behind the wheel of something that gets you home every night. But I think that's your best bet. Now, on the assessment, here are the three questions you got to answer. Who are the people I want to help? What problem or desire do they have?

What solution to that problem or desire fires me up? Now, answer those three questions while looking at those assessment results, and watch the ideas flow, and then please read the book.

Hang on the line. We're going to get you find the work you're wired to do. I'll coach you all the way.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, welcome back. I uh may have my sheet, James. I don't have my >> I think I have it, Ken. >> not have it? >> The scripture and quote of the day? I got you right here, comrade. James, I

was so nervous, man. I was looking in my stash here, pal. >> trying to make you sweat.

Hey, it worked. I was trying to make you sweat. >> the scripture of the day for us. Uh but hey, fear not, folks. Proverbs 12:15 is

our scripture of the day. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice. And our quote of the day from Milton Friedman, one of the great economists of all time.

Uh the way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

What a word. Can I I'm just going to read that again, because Milton Friedman, a lot of people don't know who he is. You need to look him up. The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Chew on that for several hours, folks, and it'll eventually hit you. I get it immediately, and I think that's brilliant. >> brilliant. >> Uh Jason is up in Pennsylvania. Uh Jason, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

>> Um so, my my question is uh revolving around uh 529 plans. So, when

I had kids, I wanted to make sure they didn't start their adult life off with debt like I did, and like so many other people do. Uh so, I opened 529 plans for each of the kids the year they were born. Fast forward 18 years, and I was very proud to have invested enough money in the 529 plans to fully fund both of my kids' college educations.

Um as luck would have it, my eldest child, my son, then earned a college scholarship covering his full tuition.

He's going to graduate in a couple years with with no debt, and somewhere north of $150,000 in account for him.

Uh that's So, that is kind of where my issue comes in. And I got to thinking, and my wife and I got to talking about how do we hand this money off to him, and when? Uh you know, I those first few handful of years out of college for me, you know, were a struggle, but I think that really taught me a lot of good lessons with debt and with money and being financially responsible. So, I don't want to rob him of that.

Um so, I'm just looking for a little bit of advice on, you know, how and when and to to pass this money to him. Are you thinking in terms of how you pass the money?

Are you thinking of just giving it to him as a 529 and suggesting that he

change the beneficiary to his future

kid? Like, what are your thoughts on on that part of it? Yeah, what I've started to In Pennsylvania, if you get a college scholarship, you're able to take that amount out per year, which I've started to do, and I'm moving that into a brokerage account and investing in index funds. So, I'm going to give him the brokerage account at some point. Okay.

>> don't know when. So, that that will be just a brokerage account opened in his name that he will take over. >> love that you made that transition. Um

Ken, I want you to to add to this, cuz your kids are older than mine. Um I think so much of this depends on

what type of kid this is. Uh it depends on

how they've managed their money. It depends on what their track record has been, cuz I I'll tell you straight up, you know, in my mind if if I have a son who is been so responsible and and so smart and and done so well with his time and his money and all these things and responsible. Yeah, when the time comes for him to buy a house, I'd love to help with that process whether it's help 50/50 on the down payment and this is the money that's going to do that.

Does that make sense? Yeah, I I love your advice. I I think

listen, all of us who have multiple kids, you know, they're all they're all different and and they tend to handle money very different. I'm thinking of my three kids as you were talking and I'm I'm laughing, you know, just the differences between my three. Yeah. You know them.

I do. I do. >> all Yeah, I have one like I you know, they don't listen to the show so I could say it. My boy Chase, let me tell you something.

Don't say the name. Well, I don't mind. Screw They will never see this or listen to this in a million years. You give it to him at 21 and it ain't going anywhere.

He's going to keep it.

It's going to turn a lot of money. Yeah.

You know, I'm not going to disparage the other cuz I I but I'm just saying he's the one where I go automatically it's a younger age for him. Uh-huh. The other two, I want to see some things. I want to and I you know, they're all great.

I love that advice. I thought you I thought it was good. I was I was I was stepping into your advice in my situation. Uh but I have a a little bit of a curveball that goes outside of the three

and their personalities.

Uh because I've toyed with this. So, I haven't done this so >> Mhm. don't come at me. I'm not. I'm listening. I wonder if and I love what Jason said

and Jason, I agree with you. I remember coming out of college having nothing. I mean nothing. Paid my student loans off. That's all I had. I didn't have a car payment and I just drove a piece of crap forever. I mean, the car I picked Stacy up on in our first date, it it's embarrassing.

Yeah. So, I do like that they need to figure it out. >> that part. And there's part of me that goes I wouldn't mind uh just putting it away in a in a true retirement account.

>> Mhm. And and it's for their retirement and Ah, okay. >> let it sit there and then over time go, "Hey, by the way, this is something Mom and I uh wanted to bless you with." And because I I don't want them to have the brokerage. I'd want them to have I'd want them to have the retirement account.

Is where I would do it. >> I see where you're going with that.

I'm not saying I'm I'm solid on that.

>> Here's why I like the real estate thing and I'm not saying right away. Like I'm not saying when they're you know, at 23 when they come out. I'm What I like about the real estate is they're they're they're giving a leg up of building wealth earlier, but it's not so it's not

I can just access this money and spend it and you know, it fall away. It's it's going into a home for savings account.

It's building equity. Something that's taking people now decades to save for to

be able to have that help is such a big deal. I almost think it could make a bigger impact than having the retirement later

because it's going to influence their day-to-day life and what they're able to do. That's my only Either one is good. Either one is good.

The only reason I thought the real long term is it's like I want them to make their own decisions on that. And I don't know what they're going to do from a home stand point. >> to be like, "Hey, this is here." It's like, "Oh." Like, "Hey guys, I've told you >> and I've been telling you to do your own thing, but we went ahead and and so you got a nice now I cuz I think I could I mean, I want to buy them all a house. >> Mhm.

All right. I do. These are things I want to do.

Everybody would love to get that gift.

>> it. They can't touch it until >> the age? Not when you die. No, no, no.

>> For them, would it have to be 60 Yeah, I've set it up as a retirement account.

Oh.

That's long term. I get it. I'm not saying by the way that that's what I'm going to do. I'm saying >> about it. >> into Jason's call and I went with him and I went, "What would I do? What could I do? What's the longest term thing that it's a blessing, but there's no temptation?" I think I'd say whichever happens first.

You're either 25 and you're ready to buy your first house or you're 27 ready or

when you upon marriage like when you get married. >> Okay. And I love those two. I like that.

And I would I'm I'm not sure. And it wouldn't be cash. It would be >> Right. down down payment on a home.

>> Yeah, I just think so few people think long term. And and I like the long term gift. Um

You're I mean, there is a nice growth on that. That's different. >> kicking it around. I don't like I said, that is not a in stone statement for me.

>> Yeah, I get it. Me neither. >> go, Jason. I And here's the deal, you're such a good dad. Can we just come back to you and go, "We gave you some ideas and thoughts, but man, how awesome does it feel for you to be in that position?" Mhm. Mhm. I'd like to kick that out to the comments. See what they would say.

>> There you go. Oh, they'll comment. Jason, what do you think? We'll give you the last word.

Yeah, you know, I thought about some of that too as far as you know, with that 529 plan in Pennsylvania, we can roll I think it's up to 35,000 into a Roth. So, I may I may do that and then put some of it in a Roth and then the rest in the brokerage and then >> That's what I'm thinking. I love the mix. That's good too, you know. So, I don't know. I don't know. I just look at all these young people. They're not thinking long term, you know. So, Jason,

you're good man. Thanks Thanks for the call. You know, it's it's That's the best worlds. It really is. And again, love that where people can see why that 529 is such a good play because look at that. He's able to do something with that. You're not stuck. People like, "Oh, what if they don't >> Now you're not stuck. >> You're not stuck. It's such a good good investment. I absolutely love that. All right. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. [Music]

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## 36. Discipline With Money Leads To More Control | April 27, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `tByzgwmsyL0` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tByzgwmsyL0) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:34:54 |

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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life from the Ramsay Network in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. It's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jay Borshot. Next to me, doctor John Deloney

on the ones and twos. >> Let's get it going. >> All right. Going straight to the phone lines. We've got [music] Ryan who's in Tacoma, Washington. What's going on, Ryan? How can we help today?

>> Hi. Hi. Um, I'm calling on behalf of my

father. I'm I'm very concerned for him.

He's 79 years old.

>> Um, and he's very financially gullible.

He has just been recently scammed out of

$3,600.

Uh, the transaction just went through yesterday.

Um, I stopped a scam last year. Uh,

there was that involved him. He has a [clears throat] time share of course in Mexico that he was contacted about and somebody wanted to buy it from him and he's getting a call from somebody claiming to be a bank manager in Mexico that has an account with a large amount of money in it. And and he he he's believing everybody, but he's not believing me. >> And I'm so concerned for him. He's he's

a widowerower. Um he's alone home with his dog and a little bit lonely and and

he just I'm trying to find a way and I'm I'm calling for help. Are there resources available to me that I can

help my father see that this is a scam

that these things are not true or that it is too good to be true. um the one that he was just scammed out of, he um

was told he started an e-commerce business >> and it is a website. It's a live website

and he paid these people a large amount of money to build him this website where they will basically put up these products and then they'll get shipped directly to you and he can sit back and just comfortably gain 30% profit margin

on everything without leaving his chair.

Does does he recognize the scope of this latest scam?

>> I still don't think he does. I I He's

concerned. He's been very quiet about it. >> Yeah. >> And he he's I think he's a little

embarrassed, but he won't be completely open with me. >> Okay. Have you ever Have you ever been scammed?

>> No. [snorts] >> Okay. Um No.

>> Have you ever made [clears throat] a mist? And here's what I'm looking at looking for. Um, I there may be resources, but I I can't

think of a better resource than a father's like the love of a son for his father.

And so there I don't know there's going to be a website or a a new article like

the scams against aging our aging population has increased so much. It's a

multi- multi-billion dollar business and

they're robbing seniors blind. And you nailed it. It's a group of people who are increasingly lonely, don't have resources, and who are being fed um rage

and anger and fear all day long, and then somebody comes along and says, "Hey, I can I can give you a bit of this." Right?

What the reason I was asking if you ever been a part of a scam is um

for your dad, nothing's going to be more embarrassing than falling for something,

right? And this same group of people who stole this $3,600 bucks is going to loop back with a different scam and say, "Have you been scammed? Give us $500 and

we'll make sure it never happens again. He'll fall for that one, too." Like this whole thing, like you're you're working with pros, okay? And so if you have ever

made a mistake with money, been scammed out of something, leading with that first is often a way to mitigate shame.

It's why Dave Ramsey always leads with the story of, "Hey, I promise you I've blown my life up financially more than any of y'all have." It gives everybody else permission to say, "Oh, you had $4 million in debt. I just had $100,000 in debt." Right? So, if you can sit down with him and say, "I've messed up before, Dad. I've been buried under this stuff before.

power of attorney? Would you let me pay your bills for you? And he may say, "No way, no how." And I I know a lot of aging dads have a lot of ego and a lot of pride still. Um, but I I don't know

another way around it. Brother, >> we're hearing this more and more and more and more and more.

>> He did put me on his account um so that I could help him with that stuff. But in that, I set alerts which, you know, he went to the that branch and pulled 3600 out cash. And I said, "Dad, what's the cash going for?" It's for his business account. And he had to go deposit it into a Chase account for this business.

And I said, "Dad, nobody does business like that." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Nobody takes cash from one account.

You've just completely severed any line

of traceability to this.

>> H how much money does he have access to?

Your dad?

>> Well, his bank account, his savings is,

as I see it, nothing in his savings, but he has a monthly pension and social security amounting roughly $4,500 a

month. And does he have a nest egg anywhere else?

>> That I don't know. Um I think he's got

an investment account. Um you know, and

he he keeps getting this call from these these people and and and and you're right, John, they are absolute pros and and they they they keep they let a certain amount of time pass and they'll call him and and you know, hey, you know, we we've got this account. I'm a brand. The last one was I am a bank manager from Sand and Tear in Mexico City and we have this large amount of money. >> Sure.

Yeah. Is is there >> Nobody does that. >> Is there could you get through and say, "Hey, Dad, I've been reading about a lot of um people with pensions and social security getting a lot of calls from all over the country, all over the world um with people trying to scam scam them out of their money.

Maybe you guys can talk some sense into him because at the end of the day, yeah, you can do all the things. You can freeze credit. You can, you know, make sure your name is on the accounts. It already sounds like it's that way. But until you really have, um, it sounds

like until you have full control over this and you're more so distributing money to him. Um, sadly, this could

continue to go on and it's huge. John, you hit on it before, but the latest statistic is adults 60 years old and older have lost $3.4 billion dollar to

scams in a single year. Like, in a single year. That's crazy. So, maybe I I don't know what kind of guy your dad is.

Maybe he's an analytical guy and it's just like maybe you print out some crazy stats and you just slide it over on the table and say, "Hey, >> just read this. Just please read this." And and it's not you talking, but you let somebody else do the talking for you. Maybe you send him this episode and you say, "Dad, I was really concerned. I called I called a few experts just to see and what they said really bother like it was really troubling me and I I wanted you to hear it, too." And so Ryan's dad, if you're listening, you you you got to let Ryan help you out.

>> And for all aging parents, >> yeah, it's bigger than you. >> If your kids come to you with some expertise or some care and love, man, let them love you, right? Let them love you. >> They're not they they they want nothing for you but to help you. They gain nothing for it. And remember, the scammer is the one asking you for money, not your not your sons and your daughters who are saying, "Hey, please don't do this thing.

[music]

At Ramsay, we don't partner with companies chasing trends or pushing gimmicks. Trust is earned and that's why

we send people to Fairwinds Credit Union. See, a lot of banks rely on teaser rates, marketing hype, and fine print. But that's not how Fair Winds operates. They've been serving members for 75 years. And you don't last that

long by cutting corners. You last by serving people well. There's a reason their name is on the studio wall. They built products that help you manage money intentionally, not pull you into

debt. If you're looking for a practical way to organize your money the Ramsay way, check out the Fair Winds Smart Bundle. It pairs a high yield savings account for your emergency fund with a checking account that doesn't drain your balance with fee after fee after fee after fee. Open your Fairwinds smart bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsey

and get the Ramsey beweird debit card.

That's fair winds.org/ramsey.

Insured by the NCUA.

>> [music]

>> back to the phone lines where we have Amanda in San Antonio, Texas. Amanda,

how can we help out today?

>> Hey [music] guys, um I'm calling to to

get some um some wise guidance um on

what to do in my marriage with our finances. Um my husband is pretty irresponsible with spending on a daily basis and um nothing seems to change for

a long uh like a longer period of time.

And my next step for what I've thought is to separate our finances and just ask

him to pay a portion of our bills to me

so I can handle our finances a little more responsibly. Um I just don't know if that's the the best next step. Um, >> what do you mean when you say he's irresponsible? Like, tell us what those behaviors look like. What was the most recent thing he did >> that you would say, "Man, that was just so irresponsible." >> Yeah. Um, so, um, mostly, um, we're

averaging $50 to $70 a day, uh, between

five and seven days a week, um, spending at gas stations.

>> On what? Mountain Dew and corn nuts.

That's it, man. He He's getting a drink, isn't he? He's getting a drink and a snack or like a a sausage biscuit.

That's what he's doing. >> Well, yeah. It's it's it's breakfast.

It's energy drinks. And a lot of it is um those liquid cratom shots.

>> Oh, yeah. So, number >> That's next level. >> Yeah. I've I've got a close friend who went through a gnarly cratom detox.

That's the issue here.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely I think an addiction at this point. And you know, I bring up my feelings about it, but um they change for two days and then it goes right back to where it was. So >> yeah. Um >> John, real quick, explain. So for folks who are listening who don't know, >> it it's just a it's I considered it I

mean in the same way uh I won't even go down that road. It's something you can get at a gas station that alters your mind. >> Yeah. It's a plant >> that is an ingredient in things that it's addictive just like any other substance. But a lot of people don't know that it is. And when they when they buy it for the first time, >> anything if you ever go to a gas station to try to feel better, that's your first signal. Probably not a good idea. Um,

where else in your life is he not showing up for you?

>> Um, well, I think a lot of it is kind of trickled down from the cratom thing. I think it's, you know, um, frustration caused by that. I think it's um you know just lack of intimacy as well caused by

that. Um but you know it's just it's

it's something every two weeks it's a new obsession of I want to buy watches and now I want to buy Pokemon cards and >> um we're just draining money like there's there's a nail on our tire and we can't seem to keep it filled. So, I I want you to treat this um this might be an an what I would call it might be an overcorrection, but I want you to treat this as though he has an alcohol addiction.

He is regularly consuming a substance that is altering his ability to show up for himself and his marriage and that is costing a bunch of money. It's causing relational conflict. It's causing relational disconnection. All that stuff. And so anytime you're sitting with somebody who is struggling in any sort of addiction, what you can control in that moment is you. And it's you saying, "Here is what I'm going to do next." And yeah, I I

would advocate for you right now to get your own checking account and to make sure you've got your bills paid and make sure you've got your house your roof over your head and make sure you can afford your own counseling bills because this is a bigger issue than the $50 or $75 a day. Um he's blowing at gas

stations, right? It's a much bigger issue. That just that's just one of the alarm bells going off. >> You have Do you guys have kids together?

>> Uh we do. We have three.

>> Okay. >> What are their ages?

Um 8, four, and uh 10 months.

>> Okay.

>> Is he is he still showing up at work?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um he he took a pay cut at the beginning of this year. um you know but loves his

job. So that's I guess better than making more money and hating your job.

Yeah. But um >> well for a short time but >> do do you have do you have do you work outside the home?

>> I do. And my my concern with having our

our bills split proportionally to what we make is that I make more money than him and I don't want him to feel less of a provider. >> That that ship is sailed at all. >> That ship has sailed. We're solving for safety. >> We're not solving for feelings right now. We're solving for safety. >> And I think I think it's good that he knows that, hey, you've you've put us in a situation where I can't trust you. And therefore, I have to be a woman and make

sure that I'm keeping myself and the kids safe. And the way that I can do that is I can keep this money aside and I can use it to pay the bills, keep the house running, and when you're ready to get the help that you need, I would love for you to come back into the marriage and be a participant again in a healthy way.

>> Yeah. >> And and and be forewarned anytime you put up a boundary like this and and by the way, this sounds like a boundary to reestablish connection down the road.

>> That's right. >> And to keep you safe. So, it's not like you're like a like an immature 26-year-old like, "I'm cutting off my parents because they gave me a curfew when I was a teenager." You're not doing that. >> You've told Yeah, cuz you told them the bridge to come back on. You've said when you are able to >> take responsibility, get the help you need, I I'm happy to have you back.

Basically, >> we're all back in. Um, expect him to run

full force into this boundary with everything he's got to see if it will hold. And if you give him, I expect this

much money for rent. I expect this much money for uh bills and he stops paying

you, you're going to have to you're going to be forced to say, "Okay, what next? Am I going to hold the line here?

Is he going to have to move out?" >> Um like you you go ahead and set that stuff up in your mind because he's going to test those these boundaries and see if they hold. >> What do you make every month, Amanda?

>> Um I make about 4500.

>> Okay. And what portion >> after tax? >> Okay. After tax. And how much is the rent rent or mortgage?

Um, well, our the house we just bought

is a 2150. Okay.

>> Um, and we're currently staying in half

of a duplex that we own and the

remainder to cover that mortgage is

about 500.

>> Are you renting out the other side?

We are and we have renters lined up for this side when we move out in the month and a half >> to go to the new house.

>> Correct. >> Was the duplex another one of his scams?

>> Uh, no. No. I think it was a wise investment. >> Okay. Okay. Um,

what about daycare?

Do you pay for daycare? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um, we we do pay for daycare. Uh it's about 20 or it's $230 a week for our one

one child that's in daycare.

>> Okay. When you say it's a wise investment, what are you going to clear after both rents come in on the mortgage and the insurance and the upkeep?

>> Yes, we clear about 900 a month.

>> Okay. So that's enough to cover daycare basically. And does that come to you?

Are you able to get access to that money before basically grab access to that money so you can make sure it's getting used to keep the household running.

>> Um so some of it um and a portion of it is from like section 8 >> and that goes to our joint joint account. So I have access to that though. >> Okay. And I would make sure that you you keep that access because what I don't want is anything to come in the way of

you being able to keep a roof over the heads of your children, them getting to school and daycare so that you can go to work. This is a four-wall situation. So, let me just back up and explain. When you're up against it financially, there's four things that you need to be in control of and prioritize. The first one is, yeah, you got to keep shelter.

So, you got to make sure you're able to pay the rent. You've got to keep the utilities on. That's number two. You've got to make sure there's food, right?

You got to eat and you got to make sure there's transportation. And in a close fifth, John, is things like daycare, insurance, making sure that those things are going. So, that's your top four. And then five and six that that I would throw in there as well. And if you can just keep that ship running and like John said, enforce those boundaries. I mean, this is not going to be an easy season ahead. But [music] I think for you, finding those areas of the the

things that you can control and the things that you can be responsible for when you put your head down on your pillow at night, that's going to be life-saving for you. And to know that you're going to be mama bear with these kids and say, "Hey, there's a lot of crazy going on, but I am like the source of like steadiness and peace." That's the best that you can do for yourself and for your kids right now.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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[music]

[music]

All right, right back at it to James in Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City.

What's going on, James?

>> Man, how you doing? doing good. How can

we help?

>> So, my question is, uh, so about two or three months ago, I kind of, uh, found the Dave Ramsey show and I like what you guys preach, um, as far as like working as a team. Um, I'm married and, uh, I have two kids and, um, just lately I've

wanted to pay off debt and I got my wife on board. Um, I'm a police officer. Um,

and I just got a second job as well.

>> Great. And um I got the uh so we did

baby step one, we're working on baby step two. The only confusion that I have and I don't know if there's a difference or not is do I use those extra payments

and as soon as I get paid uh do I put

that towards um my smallest uh

um sorry I'm forgetting the word right now. >> That's okay. Yeah, my if I get if I put that towards the smallest debt right away or should I save up to amount so like say it's $10,000 um do I put that uh do I save up $10,000

and then pay it all off at once? No. Um like you Okay. >> No, you can you can do it as you go along. Um you can do it as you go along.

So let's say uh what month are we in?

April. So let's pretend that for April you've paid all of your minimums. uh you've satisfied everything else on your budget that you need to satisfy and you've got $500 left. You would then say, "All right, just like I budgeted and just like I planned, I'm going to put this extra $500 on my smallest $10,000 debt and now it's $9,500."

>> And then you just go along like that. And the reason for that, um, at least in my mind, the reason for that is number one, each payment that you make, it's ex it's more exciting for you, right? every time you pay down that debt, you're like, "Yes, I see the balance go down." You get like that shot of adrenaline.

You're feeling good about yourself. And then the other reason for that is simply just kind of like um I'm going to just say natural behavior, which is when you start stacking up a pack of a pile of money that's just kind of over to the side, your brain wants to spend it on other fun things. And so just hurrying up and assigning that and doing what you got to do, it kind of keeps you from, you know, being left to your own devices with that money. And I I'll throw in a third thing.

>> Yes. >> And then the month after that, you're only paying interest on $9,000. Right.

So is it otherwise you're going to pay interest on 10,000 10,000 10,000 10,000 until you acrew that. So the actual amount of interest you're paying goes down too. And and okay, >> and just for the larger audience, what we're talking about here is the debt snowball method where you're listing all your debts, smallest to largest. And make sure that you're doing this, guys, um by by the balance, the full balance,

the full amount owned owed. Don't list it by monthly payment. Certainly, don't list it by interest rate. It is by full balance. And then, of course, in the meantime, you're paying minimum payments on everything. and you're throwing any and extra any and all extra money uh at that smallest debt. And to James' point, we're going to do it as it happens.

We're not going to wait and and and pile up that lumpsum. So, it's a very good question, James. Thank you for that. Uh we've got Crystal who's in Sou Falls, Iowa. Hi, Crystal. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Um so, my husband has been following

you guys since he was in high school. We're 25, so for about 10 years. And we've both been living the Dave Ramsey lifestyle. We have no debt. Um, our net

worth is just shy of $690,000.

Um, we own a home outright that's worth about 170 to 180. And we're buying some

land to build a home. And we're just trying to figure out if we slow down on maxing out our 401ks, which we've been doing to save more money to pay cash for that, which could take some time, or um, I guess what's the best option? Do we slow down on our 401ks to save more money and pay cash or do we take out a construction loan or what's your advice there? >> How much are you investing? Is it beyond 15%.

>> So my husband is maxing out his 401k which I'm not sure what it is right now.

The 22,500 whatever it is. >> Um and I am we're both doing Roth 401ks

and mine I'm doing 60% of my income

which is the most that I can do.

>> Okay. So, I mean, you could you could essentially play this like, hey, we're going back to baby step 3B because I'm in you guys' situation. And I I should probably ask, how much is it that you're trying to save up? What's the what's the dollar amount?

>> So, and that's the thing. We don't really have like a set dollar amount that we're wanting to save up, too. So, we're buying the land in the next probably year, and we have the cash for that right now. So, it's mainly just saving for a building, which probably between $500 to $600,000.

>> Um, so I mean, realist Yeah. I mean, realistically, it could take us, I don't know, 7 to 10 years to save that up in

cash. I'm not exactly sure.

>> And you're going to sell the current home, so that'll be part of it, right? The one that's worth 180.

>> So, no. So, our plan was to actually turn that into a rental.

>> I mean, you could, but it's going to cost you a lot of time. I mean, that's almost $200,000 there tied up.

>> So, what I would do, I would, first of all, we can't make a plan if we don't have real numbers. Um or at least at you know as close to >> this is how things get way out of hand on a on a on a build.

>> Yep. >> We need >> Yeah. I mean >> we need a budget. You guys get to set the budget and say this is how much based on our research based on our numbers based on our timeline we're spending $450,000 or we're spending $550,000.

So I think that's thing one to this entire question because then so let's pretend just for the purpose of today let's pretend hey the budget is set it's $550,000 that we are spending on this build. Okay now how do we get the money?

Um well I personally I'll tell you the

truth with what you guys have accomplished I personally would have a lot of a hard time going into debt again. That being said, we don't we

don't poo poo on folks for going into mortgage debt if they do it the right way on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of their take-home pay. Okay? Like, let me start by saying that that's what we suggest. That's what we um uh would tell

most folks to do because most folks don't have the money to pay outright for cash, which is technically the the best way you could buy a house. Okay. So, I want to say there's nothing wrong with a mortgage, but in your case, I kind of feel like it might feel like taking a

step back. You tell me if I'm wrong.

>> No, for sure. And that's kind of So, my husband and I are kind of on two pages.

My husband would like to Yeah. save up the cash, continue um maxing out our 401ks and just you know slowly build up

our cash and then um you know a year or so before um we are estimated to have

that cash kind of start that building process. >> Yeah. >> Um what's the timeline? >> My concern is >> what do you need to what do you want to have done?

>> So like he says like 2035 so that's like nine more years. >> Oh >> my concern Yeah. So my concern though, this is where the discussion comes into play. So the current home we're in that's worth the 170 to 180 is a threebedroom, one bath. We have no children at the moment, but we're hoping to start a family soon. Okay.

>> And the the kitchen's quite small. We have one bathroom and so I mean like I know it's doable, but my concern is I work from home and also I work part time

from home. >> I hear where you're going, Crystal. But you Here's the thing. We're just setting up an idea, a plan today. You can always reassess it, right? You can always because the truth is there is no baby yet. There's no dis inconvenience yet.

It hasn't caused you a problem working from home yet. So, what I think you can do is look at this and go, okay, let's set the plan first of what our ideal situation is and what the smartest play forward is. then we can start to factor

in, okay, here's some things that might cause that to affect our timeline and then you can start making contingencies for that. So, what I would say is, okay, 550,000 is what we're spending. We've got a 9-year horizon. Are you okay with 9 years or are you thinking more like 5 years?

say I'm I'm thinking closer to five years, but I just don't think we're going to be able to have like the 100% complete amount of I think if we've probably sold the current home we're in because in we have the cash, most of it at least. >> And I like that for you.

>> I think you run out I think you run out both of these scenarios uh in your mind and with your husband, Crystal, I would do a 9-year play and I would do a 5-year play. Obviously, the 5-year play would cause you to sell the current house that you were going to use for a rental. And then I would say, well, what happens if being in this house with a kid does start to pose a problem? Then maybe instead of taking out a mortgage for, you know, $400,000, you're only taking out a loan for $150,000.

Do you see what I'm saying? So, you have options.

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>> [music]

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Remember, may not be available in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Denise in South Carolina, and it's a good one. Denise writes, "I'm 76 and I have two children, a daughter that's 45 and a son who's 47. My will divides my

assets equally, which is how I want it to be structured. My daughter is and always has been irresponsible with money. I'm now considering putting her share, about $500,000, in a trust to

provide an income for her without giving her access to the principal. Is this the best way to provide for her or should I just let her have the same payout my son will get and let her blow it all on concert t-shirts? [laughter] >> Number one, don't hate on the concert t-shirts. It's all good.

>> Um, >> I've got my own opinions on this. What do you think, Jade? >> I think that it's her money, meaning it's the 76-year-old. It's Denise's money, and I think she knows her children, and I think she gets to decide how she's going to divvy it up.

children is responsible with money and can handle it, you know, being dispersed to them and that the other needs a little bit more guard rails. I think that that's her choice to make.

>> Yeah. You get to do what you want with your money. Um >> cuz you don't want it to be harmful.

>> Right. Right. And the challenge here is I've I've gotten this question before and someone's like, "My son is an alcoholic or my daughter struggle with drug abuse on her own." Right.

>> And this is one I just don't like how she spends her money. She buys concert t-shirts and whatever. And I'm sure I know she's playing, but >> um you get to do whatever you want with your money. And that means if you're

going to take that responsibility, you have to take responsibility for being honest about what your plans are with your money before you pass away. And that means you have to be responsible for your daughter getting mad at you and not liking you. >> Yeah. Don't let this be a surprise from beyond the grave. >> Yes. Otherwise, your son, who I'm assuming is responsible, um gets all the

blowback here. Mom's always treated you different, you and so your refusal to have this hard conversation about what you're doing with the money and how you're structuring it will will like

make in concrete that your son and daughter will never have a relationship either. Don't do that to anybody. And so, if you're going to have the courage to say, "This is my money. I want to spend it how I want to. Great. I love that. And that means have the courage to do the relational hard thing, which is tell the truth. I like the idea of

saying, "Here's what I want this money to go to." Um, and if you want to put it all in a trust and say, "I'll pay off both of your mortgages. I will like put

this in retirement. I mean, in accounts for kids, your kids college, for my grandkids college, I like that." But, um, again, it's your money. Do what you want to do with it.

>> All right. I think that settles it. I like that response. Let's go to Alex who's in Tampa, Florida. Alex, how can we help out today?

>> Yeah, thank you guys so much for taking my call. >> No worries. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so me and my wife are expecting our first baby uh in the middle of June, so pretty soon here. And we are currently on baby steps five and six.

And I just had a question as to what the best way to manage handling both of those steps are um while being proactive with both, but putting one in front of the other. Um we're definitely trying to get the house paid off soon, but >> also want to uh be able to set our son up for for um a good life.

>> Yeah. I mean, obviously for those listening, baby steps four, five, and six are to be done simultaneously. So, baby step four, you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month when you get it. At the same time, you're also putting aside a designated amount, whatever you get, whatever you decide, uh, for furthering your kids's education.

And that could be in an ESA, that could be in a 529, that could be you just throw some money in a brokerage account. It's up to you. And then also, simultaneously, you're denoting an amount that you're going to put extra on your mortgage. And again with that, you get to decide how much and you get to decide the frequency on which you apply that money.

And it doesn't always have to be the same. I like patterns. So, you know, I like to set up a a reoccurring pattern. But Alex, for you, you don't you can do this the way you want.

>> Yeah. So, I I mean, I think the plan is to just put um obviously, you know, an extra like $2,500 towards the mortgage

each month and then um you know, probably you know, a few hundred every month towards like a 529 plan something.

>> I love that. I love that. Why does that bother you? What are you concerned there won't be enough money for education?

Yeah, I think coming up with the amount to do um each month for like a 529 or for, you know, um the baby in general is is kind of a hard thing. We've been trying to come up with like a number and I think that's one one area we've been getting stuck with for college.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just just take a million dollars and know that will probably cover semester one and books, >> right? Like Yeah. Who knows what what it will be in 20 years, right? Or 18 years.

There's some projections that you could run if you wanted to get super nerdy, but to John's point, it's still extremely I mean, it's unknown, right?

All of that's a big guess, but you could run out some projections and say, "My kid's going to go to college and I don't know, I'm not going to do the math, but in in in 2040, what will the cost of tuition be then?" Right? You could do some things like that and run it backwards. But then there's also the variables of you might have kids that aren't cut out for college or they want to do trades or they start their own business when they're 19 or >> they start implanting chips in our head in a few years who knows >> or we've all been beamed up.

Like there's a lot [laughter] of things that could happen by then.

you're doing, let me just say I think what you're doing right now is working really well. And I think you continue to ride that train and unless you look up and you go, "Oh my gosh, it looks like he's looking like the type of kid who's going to go to college. Let's let's amp it up a little bit." Right? Whatever the plan is, you can always make make changes to that plan.

And I think I think that's the biggest part of this question.

amount set, I think conversations about

expectations trump dollar amounts any day. >> It does. As as a planner who lived inside the college system, I I came up with a number that I wanted to try to hit and then I regardless of what

college costs are going to be, this is the number I can come up with. And then I my son's just turned 16. He's a sophomore. We had big conversation. We have conversation all the time, but we had big conversation about 2 months ago.

>> In 2 years, regardless of what the cost is, this is what we're going to have.

>> Yes. >> And we even went down like as far to say, if you get this on your ACT and you

get this much scholarship, I'll write you a check for this much when you graduate. Right. I'll Yeah. So, it it's just being honest. And I I'm in a

fortunate situation. If you're in a situation where that number is 10,000 bucks and I I'll be able to come up with 10 thou tell your kid as early as possible. This is what I will have to contribute. >> And so if you don't want to pay anything, then we're looking at two years free community college and we'll figure out the rest. You're going to have to work two jobs, etc. Or like so it's being honest about all of it.

>> Yeah. I I love that and that's exactly right. even if you have zero dollars to put aside. My parents, and I've told this story before, I'll tell it again.

They told me early on, they were like, "Hey, you don't have a college fund and we're not taking out student loans. Like, we're not taking out parent plus loans and you're not taking out student loans either." Um, and so that told me, it was like, "Okay, I have scholarships." And they told me, they're like, "You better be good at sports or you better be smart, [laughter] basically, cuz you're getting scholarships." And that that seed was planted and that was what I worked towards. Now, I was an idiot and I took out student loans just to pay for life, but I had full rides to college.

Um, and so the point here is talk to your kids early and often about whatever the plan is for college. If you don't have money and you know you're not going to have money, set the expectation, hey, you're going to community college because college choice is the number one factor for being able to go to school and go to college debtree. So, you're going to community college, you're going to a state college, you're working, you're doing work study, we're not taking out student loans, you're getting scholarships. this is the [music] way it's going to be done.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside

the incomparable, the fabulous, the lovely Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you've joined us here on the Ramsay Show today. And some of you are going, >> "We are not Jade.

>> We're not, what happened to Jade and John?" [laughter] And I have great news. They're both healthy. They're right out here to my left in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions. We got a camera on them so that the audience who's been watching are going to watch Oh, there they are.

There they are. >> They're okay. They're safe. They're sound.

Rachel and I just I mean about an hour or so or so ago landed from Los Angeles.

>> Yes. We had an event last night. Yeah.

>> In in Seal Beach. We learned that in Kal

Beach. >> Seal Beach. Yeah. Close to Anaheim. But uh had an event there last night. Awesome crowd. So fun. Phenomenal.

>> It was kind of our last uh tour stop

doing Ramsey Show Lives, which was so fun. And uh yeah, we got up uh

>> early early and uh landed and we're back

in the studio. Um and because we made the efforts and the intentional decision to do that um because we have some bittersweet news to share with our audience. Ken, >> we do. We do. Uh so uh there's no other

way to say it than just to say it. Yeah.

>> But uh today, this show will be the last

show that I host of the Ramsay Show because uh my season at Ramsay is over

and it's been a phenomenal season. And uh let me just be very clear uh I am doing what I have coached people for many many years to do. When when an opportunity comes to you uh you should listen and then you should weigh it and you should weigh it based on is this something that I believe I have the talent to do. Is this something that I can enjoy? Will I love this work? And

then finally does it create a result that I care about? Can I measure all of those things and say okay this is something? And then you have to ask, is this a challenge that will push me? Will

it will it push me in ways I haven't been pushed before? And what's on the other side of that? And without getting all the details, because of right now, I cannot get in the details. Um, and it doesn't matter, but uh stepping in a completely different lane. >> Yeah. >> Uh stepping uh into work that is u an

extension of what I've done, but no longer in a public personality role.

>> Yeah. >> And so here we are. And I want to say I I I had to tell Dave a couple weeks ago and uh it it was such a sweet time. We spent a couple hours together and um I

told Dave and I and I want the audience to hear this. Uh this opportunity that I'm so blessed to take uh would not happen if it wasn't for Dave believing in me. >> And that's huge. >> Yeah. >> And uh and we've had so much fun and we've helped so many people and and so as we began to discuss, okay, what does that look like? uh Dave in his grace and

his goodness said finish strong and uh so here we are. Yeah.

>> And so we flew [laughter] >> which is so weird that it's been a couple of weeks since we've known. >> Yeah. But today's weird >> uh and today Yes. And it is it is so it's so bittersweet. Um because from the

bottom of our hearts I know our team >> and [snorts] you know John and Jader sent Oh my gosh.

I don't want to get I don't Yeah.

>> Let me see. Hold on. I know. Hold on one second. [snorts] Um,

>> yeah. >> Everyone, every now you're doing it.

>> Uh, no. I was going to say though, everyone is so happy for you.

>> Thanks. >> We really are, Kent. We are cheering for you. You're going to kill it. Um, but we're going to miss you.

>> How am I supposed to talk? >> I know. It's um Ken Coleman is one of

these people, y'all, that he's like, we've all said it. George, John and Jade and I and Ken, we've been on a text thread for the last like couple years obviously and the word that keeps coming up consistently Ken for you is the glue. We say Ken is our glue.

Like Ken, we every personality loves

hosting with Ken. This show specifically like on our schedules when you get the email for the week and you're like, "Okay, who am I hosting with?" We love hosting with each other. Obviously, we all love each other. But when it's Ken, it's it's safe.

You're just like, "Okay, good. He's like your big brother." And you're like, "Okay." uh when we're on stage together, he can have chemistry with anybody on stage. He's a masterful interviewer, which is what he did even before he stepped into a Ramsay personality role. He's so good at connecting with people.

[snorts] And it is that is a gift, y'all.

It's awkward, hard to talk to. [laughter] John's raising his hand out there. No, but Ken can bring bring the goodness out of anyone that he is with.

and the fact that we've gotten to stand and sit beside him for so many years.

Um, >> it's gonna Yeah, you're killing me.

There's a there is there's going to be a hole and we're gonna we um Thank you.

>> We're dearly going to miss you. >> Well, I I never had a sister. Always wanted one. True story. Um I was nine

years old one day. I said to my dad, I said, "I really want a sister." And [snorts] I've got two. Um

Rachel, we've known each other a long time. And the other one is out there in the lobby. Uh Jade Horsoff. I mean, just

like I love these two. Uh they're so so

great. Great women, great friends, and um you know, it's uh Gez, I didn't know you were going to do this. >> I know. I was going to cry either. We're just tired. >> So, here we are. We got up at 4:00 a.m.

this morning. We don't even know who we are. I do want to say this to the audience because we're going to continue the show. We're going to coach people. is one of the loves of my life uh outside of my family and my friends is to meet people where they are. Um

it is

it's the [snorts] highest honor to have someone open up to you. You guys

know uh to trust you in a public

setting. My goodness. and the uh the

privilege to just be a small little

encouragement uh to people is um man and

to get paid for it and uh it's just been

such a high honor and and that's the honor to Dave and I and I I I'll tell you I um Dave and I cried and then I

went and hugged Miss Sharon [laughter] >> because >> you should tell him what actually >> should I tell him that story because that's funny when cut my >> Yeah. Oh, this will be good. Now we can laugh together. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is good.

>> So, I spent two hours with Dave. We just walked through it all and and uh and then I said I got up, we hugged, and I said, "Uh, [snorts] can I go tell Miss Sharon?" And uh he said, "Of course." And so, uh he walks me into the kitchen,

opens up the door from his he's got this fabulous smoking room above his garage, and we smell like an ashtray. We've been smoking cigars. He said, "SHARON, [laughter] KEN WANTS TO TALK TO YOU." And she said, "Oh, I'm in my house coat,

Ken." [laughter] And uh I love that she called it a house coat, by the way. >> It is a house coat. That's a southern thing right there. It's not a robe.

>> And I said to her, I go, "Let me see that because I think that's the robe that Stacy and [clears throat] I bought you." And sure enough, it was. >> Yeah. Ken bought Sharon. [laughter] >> I gifted Sharon and Dave my favorite robe.

Of course, that's what one does for friends. >> And she had it on. I was like, how serendipitous. >> So, I came over to her and um and she uh we had a sweet moment and uh got to give her a hug and she was just so sweet and so kind.

it's really really bittersweet. And I'll say this folks, sometimes you get opportunities, you don't know what God's completely up to. Uh and I don't know how it's going to all play out. Uh but uh you know, it's time.

It's time to walk through it. So, to all of you who've said kind things, emailed so many of our team are out there. They're making me cry. This is crazy.

I love all of y'all.

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[music]

>> All right, we're going to go to Hunter who's joining us now in Chattanooga.

Hunter, how can we help you today? [music] >> How are you guys? >> We're doing well. what's going on.

>> So, I'm a bit conflicted on what I should do as far as paying off my truck.

You know, I've been listening to y'all since right after I bought it. And I know y'all say to attack attack attack at the debt, but my uncle, who is like

another father figure to me, really, he says that he thinks I should wait for at least a year or two to build some credit

before I completely pay it off.

>> Oh, yeah. So, keep the debt around so your credit score stays um somewhat at

at a good score is what he's telling you, >> right? >> Okay. Do you know um how a credit score

is calculated, Hunter? And do you know why you use it? Why you would need a credit score?

>> I mean, I know it helps with like interest rates, I feel like, on loans, but I don't know. I'm not a genius. I'm 20, so I don't know everything, right?

>> Totally. Yeah. So, so the way mathematically your credit score is calculated has to do all with debt. So, it's all the different types of debt you have, how uh how you pay on those debts monthly, if it's on time, if it's not. I mean, all of it is centered around debt because you're right, they use that score when you go into more debt. So,

our line of thinking here at Ramsey is to live a debt-free life, to not have

debt. So, you don't need loans. You don't need to get a personal loan or another car loan. You don't you don't need debt because you live on less than you make. You have a plan and that is

how you live your life with money is debt free. Now, one hangup people have is a mortgage and a mortgage is the one type of debt we won't yell at you for, but you can do manual underwriting. So, you can actually still get a mortgage with a credit score that is undetermined. So, people that don't have a credit score, you can still get a mortgage. So, all of that to say, Hunter, if you are a person that says, "I don't want debt, you know, I'm I'm

not going to be going into debt," then you don't need a credit score. Um, you

know, my credit score, you know, my credit score is undetermined.

>> Now, if you have a mortgage, obviously, that will still come into play. Um, but

all that to say, yeah, having a credit score is kind of a moot point if you're not going to live with debt. But if you want to live with debt and you know you're going to be getting loans in the future, then maybe you would need it.

But what how are you wanting to live, Hunter? Not what your uncle says and not what other people say. How do you want to live with your money?

>> Well, that was my thought. I didn't you know, I've been listening to y'all, like I said, since after I bought the truck.

So, I definitely don't want that. I don't like it. And I was also going to ask, how would y'all suggest paying it off? Cuz I'm at just over 9,000 left on

it and I have probably 13ish,000 total. >> Great. Is that your only debt?

>> Yeah, that's the only debt I >> Nice. >> Yeah. Well, we would tell you to pay it off today when you hang up because you're still going to have money left over in savings, right? And so that would be completing baby step two since this is your only debt.

And now, you know, you're on your way to baby step three completion. [clears throat] >> And you know, there's just no waiting on it since you've got the cash. What a what a wonderful thing to be able to do, right? You can just get it out of your life right now.

>> Uh I want to say it's $271.

>> So now that's $271 raise >> that you just gave yourself, >> right? >> Yep. So, um, yeah, I think you can, um,

respect your uncle and I'm sure he is a good man, but when it comes to money, we just have different philosophies than your uncle. So, you'll have to choose Hunter which uh, which one you want to choose, a debtree life, or you going to keep a debt around to keep a credit score to stay in the business and the cycle of debt? >> And because he's a father figure, I I would tell you, you can honor him. You can say, "Hey, uncle, um, this is what I'm going to do, and since you guys are so close, he's going to weigh in on it." And you can honor him and say, "Hey, here's why I'm going to do this, and here's why I don't need a credit score." And you can explain that to him.

And it doesn't sound like he's not going to be supportive. It's just that he has influence over you. And so, the way to do this is to just honor him. Explain it the way Rachel just laid it out to in your words, and I think he'll be fine.

And more importantly, you're going to be debtree and a lot more cash in your pocket as you start to make your way through life. How old are you?

>> Uh just 20. >> Oh man, >> you're 20. Oh yeah, Hunter. That this is a this is a lesson.

And I will tell you so many people listening and watching right now in their 40s, 50s, 30s are like, I wish I had done this at 20. If you can just avoid debt hunter and you just and you have a plan, you start saving and investing and and start working the baby steps. I'm telling you, >> you will be a multi-millionaire when you when you before retirement. Like, it's wild the numbers that can happen.

So, um >> that's your homework assignment, by the way, Hunter.

super simple, but you're going to be in that position and just start putting in some numbers, realistic numbers, and watch what Rachel's talking about happen before your very eyes. You're in great shape. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Dosy. Uh, well, we just left that area of California out there near Anaheim.

Uh, Dosy, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Okay. Um, sorry, I've been waiting a long time. I'm so excited. Um, so basically, my husband and I got out of debt in February of this year. One of the reasons we were able to get out of debt is we switched over to CHM ministries for our health insurance.

The only problem is they have a policy

that if you are pregnant, your due date

has to be after 300 days of being a member. Well, turns out we're pregnant and our due date is before that time.

So, so they can't uh cover the pregnancy

and birth. And so my question is, how do

we cash flow this? Because we just got the estimate from our midwives about

what the cost would be, and it's $24,000, >> which is not something that I think we can handle. Uh, our due date is in October, so we have six months.

>> Wow. >> To kind of come up with a a solution. I

was thinking home birth. I'm a lowrisk pregnancy, thankfully. So, I'm thinking home birth, birthing center, something that's not a hospital because that's where the main chunk is coming from.

>> Okay. So, just give us quick update. If you were to not have the baby at a hospital, how much would come out off of that total?

>> Yeah. So, I checked one birthing center that I'm actually going to go to a consultation today. That would be around

uh 8,600 for the entire thing. Could you

guys get 8,000 uh call it 8,500 before

October? >> I think so. However, it's still with

pregnancy, I know Rachel knows this and you have uh kids, Ken, but with pregnancy, um there's always the risk

even with a lowrisk pregnancy. Oh, yeah.

I would have to be transported to a hospital. And so, >> how do we prepare for the those that emergency? >> Yes. Well, what I would say first, Dossi, is is we want you and your baby to be safe.

So, whatever that looks like for you all in a situation is you need to you need to go forward with the safest option, right? Life life is the most important thing in this equation over money. Okay? So, you guys need to make the best decision for you all.

Um, but because of your circumstances, you're going to have to know ahead of time, hey, if this happens, plan A, plan B, plan C, here's probably what we're going to owe in medical bills. And um and it is so difficult cuz medical bills, you know, a lot of people face that. That is part of their debt snowball. And so what I would say is whatever you can save between now and then and save as much as possible.

Save over the 8,000. I mean, just as much as you can. And then I think my goal would be for you to be healthy, for baby to be healthy. And then we pick up um after, you know, everyone goes home and everyone's good, then we look at our financial situation then.

hard one. I wasn't sure about that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Because in a situation like that, I love that they went with Christian Healthcare Ministries, but there's this is one of those deals.

>> Yes. >> Where life has thrown you a curveball.

>> Yep. >> And and you're going to have to, you know, make do on that. And that's tough.

Hopefully everything goes well. I love that you've done your research. I had no idea that there were like birthing centers. This is like breaking news.

What? You didn't know this, Kim? >> Well, the way she said it sounds like it's at a strip mall or something. [laughter] Like a birthing center. Like you just roll into the parking lot and you know you're the 230.

>> So it's basically like it's not a home birth, not a hospital. It's like it's the middle option that people feel.

>> Is it like a clinic? >> Yeah. I mean I think so. I didn't I did not have I didn't go to a birthing center for but it's people that don't want to do traditional. I appreciate that. You know, medicine and they want to do a different route. It's more of a natural route I would say is the birthing center. Um, >> is the home birth even [snorts] less money, I guess? >> Yeah. You're [music] just >> just some more risk.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. So, uh, >> it's like pioneer woman type. >> That's why I'm saying like do the safe option of what you believe in and then you can worry about the money after.

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[music]

>> All right, we're going to go to Indianapolis where Beth is waiting [music] for us. Beth, how can we help today?

>> Oh, hi. Um, congratulations, Ken, on

your new venture. And, um, Rachel, I

love your show with George. [music] It's really relatable. And >> thank you, Beth. >> We should have had a cocktail today, shouldn't we, Beth? [laughter] THIS WAS THE DAY. >> I KNOW. I'M LIKE, WHAT a day to call in.

They're both bald. >> I know. I know. Bring more sadness.

>> I know. We're gonna try to Don't bring it up again. I might start crying right now, Beth. We just never know. You never know how it's going [laughter] to go. Thank you for listening. How can we help? >> Yeah. Oh, I'm just um I've really

started to notice how close retirement is. I'm basically 56 in a couple of

days. Um and I only have $27,000 in my

401k currently. Um, and I am just nervous,

um, and wondering, you know, if you've had experience with callers who've been in this position and if they if you

followed up with them in 15 years, [laughter] you'll see if they're they're living comfortably.

>> That would be a that would be a good reality show. We should uh we should have done that. We should we should do that going forward. Um, okay. Okay. So, Beth, what um from a financial

perspective, how are you financially? Do you have debt? Do you still have a mortgage? Kind of where are you at?

>> That's right. Okay. I am on um step two.

The only debt I have is my mortgage. Um it's 155K.

Um house value is about 250 270K.

>> Okay. >> Um and I have a roof loan uh 15K.

>> Okay. uh debt that I really stupidly

signed up for a 20-year loan on [laughter] um that I just I just wasn't I don't

know. I was aware of everything three years ago and now I am >> and I've run some calculators and I can save >> about $15,000 in interest if I attack it

going forward. >> Um so that's my plan. Um, >> okay. So, your 15,000 from the roof is really your baby step two because we don't count your house inside of baby step two. So, it's really just that $15,000 roof. Uh, do you have any other

savings besides this 27,000 that's in your 401k?

>> No, it's been um week to week for my

entire adult life. I >> Wow. Well, single income obviously.

>> Um Oh, um 66k.

Um, so you know, it's not terrible. I've

just been um, uh, the sole financial

provider for a couple of, well, they're not kids anymore. Technically, they're 18 and well, okay, 32.

>> Um, and she did do I had my daughter in

private school, uh, high school. She went to public school, K through eight, but, um, it was just a much >> a better fit, um, for high school. So, anyway. >> Yes. Okay. So, what I would tell you, Beth, is um yeah, the Yeah, you'll

probably still be working, I would say, for the next foreseeable future. Are you in a pretty steady position of your job?

Like, if you had to work another 10 years, are you >> in a good spot? >> Oh. Oh, I'm so fortunate. I I work from

home for a major insurance company. Um

so, it's it's quite secure.

>> Okay, great. how much um so you are kind of you are paycheck to paycheck so there's not a lot of margin that you have to throw at this 15,000. So that's the first goal I would have for you is to get $1,000 put that aside in a high yield savings account you can open up um with Fairwinds actually like there's a smart bundle and so they have a great high yield savings account in that smart bundle. So, Fairwinds is a good spot and you can just put your $1,000 over there and that high yield savings.

And then we got to figure out, okay, how do we work extra? >> What expenses can we cut? There may not be a lot >> um to cut. So, it's probably going to be from the income side, which actually Ken probably could speak to some of that, but >> getting your income up and having a goal.

You know, you just think by the end of this calendar year, if that 15,000 is paid off and it's done, then we can really start looking to cash flow and emergency fund and start throwing a ton at retirement because that's that's going to be huge. But the faster you get out of this 15,000 roof loan, the quicker you can get to saving more for retirement in that 401k.

>> One of the things I wanted to know is you said you've been living kind of paycheck to paycheck and so I'm wondering is there is there anything you

can cut? And I'm not going to make you list it out for us, but it's more of a general question. Do you feel like you could be tighter or are you as tight as you can be on spending?

>> Um, well, I personally, for myself as

the mom, I'm very frugal, but I do give

in quite often to my teenage daughter.

Um, especially the first two years of high school. You know, their eyes are big as foster plates for everything they see on social media. Um, but I just

finally wised up to myself and for the past two years, you know, she's pretty much paid for anything. But, um, anyway,

since she's 18, just to be honest, once

that'll be a huge >> So, what kind of Okay, so let's just run some quick numbers. You don't have to lock these in, but what kind of margin would you now have? Even if we just said today, you're not other than the basics, how much could you put >> extra towards the snowball?

Well, I'm planning like once she's kind of not Oh, when once high school tuition is gone and I'm not spending on her, >> um I can probably put 800 to the roof

loan monthly and then after my other expenses, um I think I would have about three or

500 left. >> Okay, so let's just say for conversation. Okay. And again, you need to do your own exercise on this after the call, but let's just say we we came up with $1,000 a month. And I think we could find it in those numbers you just gave us. Okay. >> I think so, too. >> Absolutely. So, now all of a sudden, that's $12,000 a year >> just in just on what's coming into you now from your day job. Okay.

>> So, now we move into, okay, what can you do? What what is your profession?

I um I work for a health insurance

company. Um I I just review hospital

contracts. I've actually been with them for since 1998, which is why it's so

probably shocking to you that I only have 27,000 [laughter] in my um >> No, no, we certainly understand. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is is if that's clerical type work or administrative type work, could you pick up to Rachel's point, 15 to 20 hours a

week at this stage of your life? You have the freedom because your youngest is 18. >> Yes. >> So now >> extra extra. >> So here's where we're going. Could we make and I'm putting out some general numbers, Beth, that aren't too big so that you can hopefully grasp this. But let's say you made an extra two grand a month. Okay, now that's See, now you're with us, right? So now we're talking $24,000 gross on top of $12,000

a year. And to and I just wanted to put real numbers to Rachel's advice because she gave you a wonderful plan, but you're going to have to get super intense >> because you are 56 or soon to be 56 and

so we want to get that nest egg up and so you want to be in a position where you're throwing a lot of money away. And let's say we get through the um uh the

loan and now we get to the emergency fund and now we're just straight baby step four where you're just you're just throwing money. You know, how much could you invest? You have to ask yourself, how much could I invest on the other side of those two steps? And now uh now

you've got a chance to stack cash for the next 10 years.

>> Yes. And that is that is my goal. And um

I do have a couple of applications out for part-time because my life is about to be freed up.

It's just going to be a whole new world.

>> And what's crazy too is if you keep throwing that extra money and maybe you get a raise with your 66,000 all of that, you could have your home paid off >> in fourish years, too. And so if that How much is your mortgage? How much How much is your mortgage payment a month? >> Oh my gosh. Um well, it's 1,100 and my

mortgage would go until I'm 82.

That does not seem right.

>> Yep. Nope. So, we're gonna pay we're going to continue kind of a little bit of this intense you're gonna have some intense years coming ahead Beth because we got to play a little bit of catch-up.

And so, um after this Yep. after the roof's gone, funding 15% of your income into retirement, throwing some at the house, get that house paid off in 3 to four years if you can. And then you can look up and be like, "Okay, now I'm going to just like throw everything at this." And then and I mean we're throwing years out there, but you look up that you do all this in five years, right? >> And then you work another five and you throw more cash at retirement.

That's a that's a decade long. That can change completely your financial future, Beth, cuz you're doing something completely different than you haven't [music] than you've ever have. So, um yeah, call us back if you need us, Beth. But we're cheering you on and the numbers are there.

[music]

Heat. Heat.

[music]

All right, folks. Buying or selling your home is a big deal. You know that. And there's a lot of clickbait stuff out there that can get you trapped, give you some opinions that are going to hurt you. Uh, a lot of headlines that aren't even accurate or up to date. And we're here to make sure that the latest trends are easy to understand. Uh, so if you want to know what happened last month, the average 15-year fixed mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56.

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That's rammissysolutions.commarket.

All right, Lauren is up next in Salt Lake City. Lauren, how can we help you today?

>> Hey, thank you guys for taking my calls.

So, my question is, should I move out of my parents house when I have debt?

>> Oh, it's a good question. >> Wow. Tell us more. How much debt?

>> So, I Yeah, I'm a real estate agent and

I've been a realtor for about three years. This is the first year that I'm consistent. So, I'm like making money now and I have about $10,500

in credit card debt. I don't have student loans and I've been listening to you guys show for a while. So, I I started the beginning of the year with 20K in debt. And I know it's a lot cuz like I live with my parents who don't charge me rent >> and so I calculate like all of my numbers. I just have them here for you guys. So, right now I have about $11,000

cash that sits in my business account just cuz I don't really know what to do when I get my cash, especially with my job and income. Like, I would say I make around 40 to $60,000 a year, but it's

variable. And like I said, this is my first year consistent.

Um, >> include my car. >> How many houses did you sell uh to achieve that number? I'm just curious.

What number? Depend.

>> What you made? No, what you made. I know it's your first year. I was just curious how many houses you sell to make that income.

>> Yeah. So, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Our median home price is 515 and

for this year, I'm already at about four houses um with one pending.

>> Okay. But what I'm saying is, is that going to put you ahead of what you made last year?

Correct. Yes, I'm already on track. Like last year, my income was all over the place, right? Because I was kind of still working part-time at another job.

I worked for a builder and then I got right back into residential. So now I'm a solo realtor. So from about December to now, I'm only doing real estate.

>> Great. And and a modest guess, what do you think you'll sell this year if you were to project out? >> Really? Yes. I think I will make around

50. Well, that's also me being like, you know, this is my first year consistent. I'm maybe a little scared, but I'd like to say 50 to 60,000 for the year.

>> Okay, perfect. >> We just want to know kind of what your income situation is because it's it's important to how you get out of this and how quickly. >> Yep. Um Okay. So, you're So, you're

keeping the $11,000 cash, you said, in my business account. Are there business expenses you have or is this more when you said because you also said in the same breath I just don't know what to do with all my cash so I'm just putting it away. So when you say business account what are you using this money for when it comes to your business? >> Yep. So you're absolutely right. It just sits in my account and I have like automatic transfers that do my car payment, my phone bill

expenses. >> You have a car loan? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. How much is the car loan? >> Yes. So I owe $19,000 on my car. My car

payment is 380 a month.

>> Okay. So, it's not really a business account. It's just your It's It's a type of checking that you're living off of, right? >> Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um Okay. So, if I were you How old are

you, Lauren?

>> I'm 26. >> 26. Okay, great. And you've already paid off 10,000 in in debt already this year in four months, >> correct? >> That's amazing. Okay, well done. Okay, so here's probably what I would do. you have $11 $11,000 cash. Um, if you if you

do the Ramsay plan and you do the baby steps, I mean, by today, I would pay off the credit cards because your interest rate, how much is that on the credit cards? >> Yeah. So, my interest rate on my credit card is 27%.

>> Get be done. Be done. Because you're paying so much in interest. Like, I would pay that off today, Lauren, and you're going to have $1,000, which is going to freak you out. And that's okay because you're making some money. And then I would and then I would be okay with you, Ken may have a different opinion because of how quickly you have paid off debt. Um I would be okay with

you staying maybe through the summer at your parents and continue that same trajectory and then come fall, even if you still have some on the car loan because if you're if you're kind of at that same pace, you know, you'll probably have around $9,000 left on your car. I probably still would look to see, hey, let me go rent somewhere because there's just something good about being 26 years old and out on your own. Yeah. Um, so at some point I would have a deadline to say, I'm going to move out.

Uh, it doesn't have to be tomorrow and maybe you kind of through the summer. And one reason I'm okay with you staying a little bit longer is because you actually are doing what you said you're going to do, which is to pay off debt. Because we call we a lot of people call in, Lauren, and they're like, "Well, I'm living with my parents." We're like, "Okay, well, how much have you saved or paid off?" And they're like, "Uh, not a ton. maybe like $1,000 over three months and we're like, "What are you doing?" Like like you're supposed to be saving rent and you're you really are putting your money >> to something good that's being that's productive, right?

It's not just like upping your lifestyle. So because of that sacrifice, I'm okay if you stay a little bit, but I don't want you to stay. I mean, past probably four to five, six months. >> I agree.

Yeah, Lauren, we don't what you don't what you don't want to happen is that you fall into this rut of the comfort and it doesn't have the same psychological intensity of being out on your own. And uh I think you need this right now.

Residential homes in that area. Is it is

it a is it is it cooled? Is it uh just

kind of, you know, moving along on an average pace? Is it above pace? Where is the market?

>> I would say it's an average pace. I don't obviously like interest rates are going higher, but in Utah, I'm seeing people get two to three houses under contract a month. So, I know our market is active. You know, we do have a really good career base in Utah. So, people are making money. >> Good. Okay. The reason I asked that is you as a real estate pro who is

full-time, >> you can make yourself very very wealthy

and and so, you know, we talk about Gazelle Intensity on this show all the time, right? And in your case, I want to see you getting mentored by some real estate agents in your area that would be willing to take you under their wing. uh and you are trying to fill up your pipeline with everything you've got in you because if you were to sell five or six houses in one month, what a major

infusion of cash that would be. Yes or no? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> And then you get that going and so you could fast forward this entire process and you're only 26. So, um, because

you're in a decent market, uh, by your

own, uh, admission here, uh, I would be working like crazy to sell house list. I mean, I'd get in on every deal I could get in on because every time you get a commission check, you are just moving through the baby steps. And I love that for you. Love that for you.

>> 100%. >> Yeah. And you're in a great industry. >> I don't think I mentioned. So, I do I did follow the baby steps. I have about I would say like $1,600 saved and that's

not on top of the $11,000 that I have sitting in that account. So, I'm trying to get something in there. I just didn't know what to do with that cash that I

have on hand. >> Yep. That's where I would I would get out of debt. That's your number one goal right now is to be debtree.

So, any money you have and you have no expenses like there's no good news. >> You're not paying you know what I mean? You're not paying rent, utilities, all of that. Now, you will eventually.

So, you need to be thinking through, okay, when that when you do make that step, you need to do kind of a mock budget before just to know because it'll slow down your your debt process, right? It will slow down how much you're putting towards debt because you're going to be paying rent and all of that.

and holding yourself, right? And you can, Lauren, you are you're you can you can afford it. Um, so, um, yeah, I think

if you just make a timeline plan on when you're going to move out, put some numbers and then make a make some big goals like what Ken was [music] saying, you can I mean, you could go crazy and just say, "What if I had this crazy goal of selling this? What would that look like?" And put it down on paper. >> Yeah.

[music]

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. the phone number to jump in.8825-55225LE88255225.

Daryl is going to start us off in Columbia, Missouri. Daryl, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys, I got a question for you. Um,

I don't owe uh me and my wife have no debt except for our house and I'm debating on paying off the house and able or in order to do that, I have our

emergency fund um that has 22,000 in it.

And then I have another saving savings account that has 28,000 in it. And uh I

know that doesn't equal up to 70 yet.

I'm just I'm going to have a few more jobs come in in the next couple months that'll get me to that point. And I'm

wondering if I should, you know, trade

in my savings account to pay off the house. >> To pay off the mortgage. Well, that's exciting. The fact that this is even a possibility. So, how much is left on the house?

>> 70,000. >> 70,000. Okay. >> So, you're calling us today wanting to know if you can get ahead of this deal when we know in a couple of months that you're going to have it to be able to pay it off. So, it's the difference between paying it off today or close to because you don't have the full 70 there. So, that's an interesting question.

What's going on? You just nervous you're not going to be able to get it done or like what what what's the equation?

>> No. Uh well, okay, so there there is a few other things going on. Um we've been in this house for eight years now. We've

actually gone through the process of dividing up my property and I do plan on building a house um another house on the north part of our property. Um, along with that, I am

also in need of a truck. But at this point, I've just kind of looked at our mortgage. I'm like, man, I've got 70,000 left on the mortgage, and I've got this much in savings. I'm almost there to paying off the mortgage. Um, I'm just not sure what the right next move for me is. >> So, is the 22,000 your fully funded emergency fund, or is it the 28?

>> The 22. >> Is that three months or six months?

I think that's closer to three months.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't know. He's >> just living on the edge. Daryl's just [laughter] first of all, Darl, you're doing it right. I you know, if I'm you >> uh and you need a truck

>> um and you've got this additional cash beyond uh what what kind of truck are you looking to buy? What what would the cost be?

>> I'm looking at truck in the cost of 30,000. >> Okay. So, you're almost there. something finally that would be maybe reliable.

>> Okay. What's your truck worth now? What if you sold it or traded it in? Probably not a ton, but what would it what would it bring? >> I had I had an old Suburban that I drove around. Um, and I just sold her for $3,000. >> For three. Okay. So, you don't have a car right now. >> I was happy to get rid of her. >> I love that you effectually called it her. >> What a gal. What a gal [laughter] that suburban's been. >> Her name is Veronica.

>> I love that. >> We knew she had a name. >> I was going to say this. I wasn't going to say this until Daryl said this. So, uh, we had two Suburbans as the kids were growing up. You probably saw them in the parking lot from time to time here at Ramsey. And, uh, the first one was Betsy the B, and then we had a, it

was kind of silver, and then we went to a black suburban, and we called him Bruce. So, I like that Daryl has a name, Veronica, for the >> Veronica's gone now. >> But, but, [laughter] Daryl, how are you getting around right now since you sold poor Veronica?

>> I have I have another small car that I >> Oh, okay. >> that I use. >> Okay. Uh, >> what do you think here? I mean, he's so close to paying the house off, but he needs a car. >> Yeah, I mean, how bad do you need this truck? Could you wait another six months, or do you Are you like, "No, I I need to I need to get it now." >> Um, I'm on the fence. I I'm doing So, I

don't really necessarily need a truck for my job that I work at. However, I do have a side uh job that I do. I'm a professional land surveyor, and so I do use my my car.

>> Okay. um all my service and that and I

go is that >> okay so if we ran a couple of scenarios and said let's say that 28,000 went to the truck >> we're not going to touch the emergency fund so that's off the table so you're back now to kind of flat so between now

and in a couple of months you said you have some jobs coming in how much will you make off those jobs in the next couple of months >> um close to close to 10,000 >> to 10 okay so then you're down to 60,000 on the mortgage and then how much extra how much extra do you throw at the mortgage every month?

>> We are doing I'm looking at my wife right now. She's shaking her head. Not much. [laughter] I think there's a couple hundred extra a month and and our mortgage is only you know principal and interest is like 670 is the payment.

>> Okay. >> I think actually we put a thousand in there and you know the other part of that goes to >> and what's the financial windfall that you mentioned a few minutes ago that you're expecting in a couple months which would have gotten you over the 70.

How much is that? Do you have an idea?

Oh, how much am I planning on making?

>> Yeah, you you mentioned that you >> That was the extra job. So, >> the extra money you were thinking, was that the 10,000?

>> Yeah, that was that extra 10,000.

>> Oh, it's just 10 that get I got you.

>> Um, okay. So, that's scenario one, Darl.

You buy the truck, and then you take the 10,000, throw it at the mortgage, and you just kind of keep chipping away at the mortgage. That's option one. Option two is you get um a $20,000 truck. Yeah,

>> throw an extra eight at the house, right? You can change that up a little.

Um or you throw all 28 and then you'll have the 10. >> Um so yeah, you're close to 40 at that point. Only $30,000 left. So yeah, I mean there's not really a wrong >> I don't think there's a wrong scenario here. I think it's kind of just what you want to do. And we and we don't say to be intense during >> paying off your home. So you're okay.

>> Yeah, you're so close. If I needed a car, I just tell you what I would do if I was in your situation. I had the cash for the for the truck. I'd get the truck. Um, unless I could I don't need it. And if you don't need it, to Rachel's point, then again, get it on the on the other side of paying the mortgage off. But you're in such great shape. >> What does your wife your wife sitting down? She's sitting there. >> What does she What does she want to do?

>> What does she want to do? Well, um, she's a little she's a little nervous about paying off the house.

>> Why? um uh because it has we have a good

interest rate on it >> and we're also obviously planning we're also obviously planning on building another house.

>> I wouldn't worry about the other H. Is the other house for you guys?

>> Yes, I I think we'd plan on moving on in it and then either renting this out, the one we're in now, or selling it.

Now, see, now that changes this conversation a little bit because do you really want to be a landlord and how much you you know, I mean, is that really something you want to do or would you rather just sell the current house >> and and then go build the new house?

>> Like, what do you want more? >> That those are good questions and I don't have [laughter] answers. >> Well, that's that's why you need the answers. >> In my head, you're jumping you're jumping ahead.

>> I agree >> with that second half. >> This is a steak dinner, candle light, maybe a bottle of red. and you two sit down and weigh this out and go, "Okay, do we want to to have the current home we're in as a rental property?" Now, it becomes obviously real estate investment for you that's cash and you don't owe a dime on it. Uh or do we want to move quicker into building another house?

Do I need the truck? Now, like lay it all out there and get everybody's opinions in the middle of the table, you and your wife, and then just do the old school pros and cons and come up with a list and then execute on it. >> Yeah. Because the truth is, Darl, in five years, I think you're going to end up in the same place.

>> However you get there, you're going to get there. And so there's not really a bad option here. Um, >> so yeah, it's kind of whatever you want to do with the 28,000. If you want to get the truck, get the truck. You want to throw at the house. Yeah. But you guys, you and your wife uh agree on it

and say, does this get us to our long-term goals faster or slower? And that may that may be the difference. Real quick, Rachel, lady to lady, talk to his wife about that interest rate fear she has. What would you tell her?

>> Oh, I would have way less fear not owing anyone anything than having a [music] mortgage payment. So, that's my rationale.

[music]

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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That's ramseyolutions.com/careers.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsay principles. Excuse [clears throat] me.

And today we're going to break down uh the most asked questions from this week.

Rachel, we had some questions around retirement savings, uh paying off debt.

>> Uh but the most asked question was around emergency funds. So, the main question we got was, "Where is the best place to store my emergency fund?"

That's a good question. We get that a lot. >> You know what? And I get this a lot in in the social media world, like my DMs.

I get a lot of questions about um because we always talk about a high yield savings account is is the best place >> because the money you can get to it if you need it, but also it's making around probably 3 4% depending on the account

um versus less than 1% just in a traditional savings account. So, a high yield savings account is where it's at. And we love Fairwinds Credit Union. Um, we've been partnering with them and they obviously are the studio sponsor of the show, but um, they they honestly probably have the best deal because they they're doing a smart bundle where you get a no fee checking account and then you can get up to 10 high yield savings accounts.

So, for all the nerdy people like a George Camel who loves all his different all his different savings accounts, you know, for each little thing that he's doing and you can do up to 10 with Fair Winds and you get uh the debit card access. It's such an easy interface like their app and everything is great. So, that's what Winston and I use. We use Fairwinds.

We love them. Um, and that's a great place to put your emergency fund in in their high yield savings account. >> Love it. So, uh, if you'd love to submit your question, go to ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching via YouTube.

Let's go to San Diego next where Tom is waiting. Tom, how can we help? >> Hey, so I have a question. I'm 52.

wife and I are in a pretty good financial position.

Um, I recently separated with my company about a year and a half ago and I'm deciding if trying to start my own company over at this age or just go work for someone and take a couple years and be fine. You know, coming from a running a small business, it's tough to sell and get out. So, I don't know if I want to grow something like that.

>> What would you grow? Do you know what you'd start? >> Uh, so I'm a plumber by trade and a mechanical and builder. So it would be in the in that field which I have about 37 years of experience in.

>> I love that. And and my guess is 37 years of working for a good company.

Right. >> Well, actually 17 years of it was being partners in a company. >> Oh, >> where I was the minority partner and we had disagreements on where the company was going and I wound up this odd man out. >> Well, but I'm guessing that you had uh eyes on all the books. You have a pretty good idea how to run a company that you're talking about, correct?

>> Oh, yeah. President of operations. I built all the accounting software, all the integrations and everything.

>> So, uh, what I'm hearing, Rachel, uh, I'm hearing want to, and I hear, uh, you

you got the how to. So, now it's what is

it going to take to get started? And I'm I'm assuming you've run some numbers on that. So, what do you think it's going to cost to start one of these companies?

I think the biggest problem is cash out big commercial stuff. >> We got you in a wind tunnel here. Say that again. You broke up really bad.

>> Oh, I said the biggest problem is cash out of pocket for funding all these projects that owners don't want to pay upfront. So, you wind up with huge upfront cost. And my wife and I own two houses and have some money in the bank and don't have any debt. So, do you want

to start playing that game at this age?

>> No. And I don't think I don't think you have to play that game. I'm going to poke on that a little bit. Uh, are we talking about plumbing? What? Let's pick Let's pick one. Let's pick one discipline. Let's pick one trade for this conversation.

>> So, let's just put it this way. I specialized in healthc care, building hospitals and remodeling hospitals as a general and as plumbing and mechanical systems. >> Okay. But I'm saying this business, let's say you have all the cash in the world to start today. What is the business?

probably plumbing and mechanical systems, you know, HVAC and plumbing.

>> Okay. And it would be and it would not be for residential, it would be uh uh corporate, correct?

>> Yeah. Mostly commercial. That's >> Thank you. I couldn't think come up the word. So, if it's commercial, so what you're saying is Yeah. And that's that's really good money. And And you're saying you would have to front because what they're doing is they're going you go buy all the supplies, everything, and then invoices. That's what I'm understanding. >> Yeah. And the invoices are 30 45 days before they pay 60 days. You know, the contracts they take a retention payment.

So 10% out and you're running this I got you now. Yeah. And those are big and those are big jobs. The commercial jobs.

My father-in-law owns a heating and air company, but it's he does some some commercial mostly residential, but I mean they have crews. So would you hire >> if you went down that route? Do you have >> people that you know that you're like, "Oh yeah, I could hire these guys for this crew and all." I mean because you're starting I mean that's a that's a big operation.

Yeah, that's why I'm like, you know, we have we own two homes.

>> Okay, let's let's go down that route. >> Million and a half bucks in the bank.

>> You have how much? >> A million and a half. >> But is that retirement or cash?

>> It's uh 401k in cash.

>> Okay. Well, we're not going to touch the 401k. >> No. >> Uh how much cash? Parcel that out.

>> 900. >> You have 900,000 in cash. Okay.

>> Between my wife and I. >> I understand. And then what if you sold one of the homes, what would you clear on one of the houses?

>> Well, well, the one in San Diego, we probably wouldn't sell 2.4.

>> Well, but I'm trying >> on it outright, >> right? But I'm saying to come up with some capital, I would absolutely look at selling one of those houses if the sale of that home gave you that startup that you needed, that startup cost.

>> Yeah. >> And if you want to do it, do do you want to do do you want to start all this? I mean, I don't know, but >> that's a question. The riskreward is what's got me perplexed on it.

>> Well, I know that's why we're in a pretty good financial position to take a

big risk. >> What's your income right now?

>> Uh, so we have some income property. We have about 10 grand a month coming in.

>> That's your only income is their properties. You're not working >> right now. I work for a year and a half and I and I'm still getting paid off from my old company which they're they're buying me out. >> All right. Well, Tom, we're having the hardest time with your phone. So, I I'll boil it down to this. Um, appreciate the call. we can't make that call for you.

What you heard us do was walk through

what your options are to come up with cash if you wanted to launch this company. But I thought Rachel was very insightful by just putting it to you and you're still going, I don't know if I want to do it. And so I I will tell you, Rachel, if someone if someone presents this to me and I'm coaching them, I'm going to say, all right, Tom, and this is by the way, your wife's got to be in on this conversation. >> And I think we have to look at the effort.

>> Yes. >> The risk. >> Yes. and the capital outlay.

big three. And there are uh emotions,

there are logistics, there are consequences to uh walking through that

checklist, Rachel, >> 100%. >> And if we walk through that checklist, those are the big three. You guys can get as specific as you want, but if we walk through those those big three and we go, I still want to do it if this is you, Tom. And then your wife goes, okay,

I'm in. >> Yep. Then I say go for it. But let's

mitigate the risk, Rachel.

>> 100%. >> In other words, we got to say, I'm risking this much. >> Yeah. >> And at the worst case scenario, we only lose this and we're still okay.

>> Yeah. My my only, you know, thought and I think it's more of a personality thing, Ken, because at this point, moneywise, they're fine. Like he he can go get another job. Yeah. All of it.

>> Um but at this point, it's a personality passion thing of Yeah. I still want to get up and and grind it because when when I when he first said plumbing, electrical, I thought, okay, you know, he could probably start a small plumbing company, get one or two guys under him, they can go do some residential. He's like, oh no, I'm doing hospital [gasps] >> hospitals and massive commercial properties. So starting that to me in my head went from a two to like a you're a 910.

Like that's a lot. Yeah, >> but also it's doable if that's what you want in kind of the second half of your life, Tom, to grow something and sell it and >> you know, um that's if that's exciting and fun, that's great.

>> In four years, I'm probably going to want to retire. If I may go work for someone, make some good money. >> Yeah. >> Still make some good money doing it. And then >> yeah, I mean, [clears throat] >> chill. But that's a that's a personality thing, too, you know, >> because that's a lot of effort.

>> Remember that effort bucket effort. He's got a good paying job and he's clearing 10 grand. >> Yeah. >> In real estate property. >> Right. Right. >> So Tom, I am a Listen, I am always going

to be the guy that says if my heart is telling me to do it, then I'm going to try to mitigate the risk involved because there's always risk.

>> Um, >> but we're all for jumping to a new idea, aren't we, Ken? That's the theme of the >> We are. [laughter] And my my the last person I worked for before Dave, John Maxwell, famously said, you got to give up to go up. Mhm. >> And I think this is a situation where if you want to go up to start this

business, you and your wife will be able to be on the same page about what we're giving up. Yes. >> There's always a trade-off.

[music]

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[music]

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All right, to Eric we go in De Moine, Iowa. Eric, how can we help?

Hey guys, thanks for taking the call.

Um, so I've got a I feel like I'm in a position to start investing, but on paper it doesn't feel like it as well. So I've got a income of about 156 to

200,000 a year, self-employed. Um, my wife's stay at home mom, got two kids, one on the way. Um, our primary home and

I have a rental property as well. So rental property is worth about 425,000.

The primary home is worth about 330,000

and the mortgages are $34,000

at 2.75% and 28,000 at 6 12%. Uh, and then I have

about $54,000 in debt to my parents.

Although I will caveat, I've got a great relationship with my parents. If anything were to ever happen, I'm confident they would just say either pause payments or they just forgive it.

Um anyway, um rental property, it's cash

flowing. Uh my rent is or I charge two

2500 a month and my the cost of a month is 2,000 bucks. So I and I've got about

80 to $85,000 in cash sitting in the

bank. So I'm trying to figure out I feel like I should be putting money Oh, sorry. In a Roth IRA, it's got about $100,000 in it. Okay.

>> So I'm trying to figure out I feel like I should be investing more. But yeah,

>> you got a lot going on, Eric. [laughter] My gosh. Okay. So, let's Okay, got to >> give you the quick version. >> No, it's great. No, we needed all those numbers. My My question is, is your rental property worth more than your primary home?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I bought a bachelor pad um before I got married. Uh I got married, my had a kid, and it was not a good fit for a for a house. So, yes, my rental property was my own house a while ago. >> Okay. >> And then >> And how much do you owe how much do you owe on it? How much is left on the mortgage?

>> 304,000.

304. Okay.

>> And how much is on your primary home?

How much is it worth or how much do you owe?

>> 28 280,000 on the primary.

>> 280. Okay.

Um and the only debt you have consumer-wise is the 54,000 to your parents, right? No car loans, no credit cards, student loans, none of that.

>> Correct. All that I I did pay off my wife's uh student loans. That was that was a check box. So, we did that. I was hoping to feel a little bit more relief from that. But >> yeah, so what's the Anyway, you touched on this real quick. What What is this burning desire with all the stuff you got going on? You feel like you need to be investing for retirement. Is that what I heard?

>> Um I've Yes. Uh I I used to be putting

away a bunch of money. You know, when I had a standard W2 job, I was investing.

Obviously, I've got 100,000 in a Roth and 401k. Um maybe it's 120. I don't know the exact number, but but I stopped doing that ever since. since I've become self-employed, >> right? >> Uh with this rental house and everything going on. I've got I technically have the cash, but we're trying to save up about 100,000. My wife's not a big fan of the current house that we're in.

>> Um and >> how familiar with how familiar with the baby steps are you?

>> Um admittedly, I went through FPU a long time ago, but that was pre everything,

so not not a ton. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um Gosh. Okay. So, I always run these scenarios, Eric. If I woke up in your shoes, okay, and you called you called our show. So, if I woke up in your shoes, Eric, here's what I would do. I'd pay off your parents tonight.

And that brings your savings down to

28,000, which I would count as probably your fully funded emergency fund. You may want to throw a little bit more in there, but we can just set that in a high yield. We're done. Wife is not happy in the home. Um, and I would I

would run for simplification personally

>> of where you guys are. I probably would look to to sell the rental. Uh, you'll make about 120, probably 100 after fees

and everything. >> Uh, the home you're in now, you'll have some equity. I mean, you could throw possibly 175ish at a new home and you guys start,

you know, Yeah. having, you know, having that over here and then you go and you start investing 15% of your income and you got Do you guys have kids?

>> Three. Okay. >> Well, two and one on the way. >> All right. Yeah. And start working uh, you know, putting some money away for college for them and just start working the baby steps. But that's me, Eric.

Again, everyone has a different thing.

>> Well, I think I can feel on you, Eric, the stress that you have in your life.

>> And a new baby coming to >> Am I Am I feeling this or am I is it just bad pizza? What's What's going on?

>> Oh, no. Actually, I love this. I've I've I love all of this managing and keeping track of all this. >> Okay. So, you do love the >> But but you do Okay. So, you may not feel it what what I'm feeling, but you do want to simplify a little bit. You you or you or you're trying to at least strategize on how do I invest for retirement and you just can't do all of this at once and do it well.

>> I'm I'm worried that if I you know, I

always hear, you know, if I had $100,000 early on in a retirement, it'll grow even if you don't invest anything. So, I feel like I've checked the box of investing, but I feel like I should still be investing. I've got >> You should cash flow, >> but you're tapped out with everything else going on.

>> Yeah. The goal is to be funding 15% of your income into retirement consistently, continuing to build up that. So, that's but that's after you're debtree with an emergency fund, which could happen tonight, you know. So, um, so if you walk through the baby steps, yeah, I think there's a non-negotiable here that the 54,000 needs to be paid off.

And even if it's a great relationship with your parents, all of that, be done. Just be done with it. You'll have your fully funded emergency fund of 28,000. So, that's a non-negotiable.

or not? Um, but you need to be investing 15% of your income into retirement and then looking at this rental property and what you and your wife want. What do you guys want to be in five years? Do you want to be landlords and, you know, still have this property and hopefully be paying it off because you need to be paying that that you should be paying that off even before your primary home.

Yeah. >> Um, but yeah, it's just a lot of real estate and depending on >> what you want to do, Eric, right? If you want more money in the market or or some there. Do you enjoy the rental property?

>> Yeah. Well, I'm [clears throat] luckily I've got great tenants right now, but I know that could theoretically change. Yeah. And I I'm handy, so any any repairs and stuff I I do myself. So >> yeah. So So having a second home

long-term is good with both of you.

That's like part of your portfolio that you're good with.

>> That's correct. I feel like that's what I'm investing in right now. But >> yes. >> Yeah. So um so yeah, the only change up I would do is is start putting 15% away into your that's going to be your Roth. And then do you have a 401k at at your work?

>> Yes. >> Yep. So those two those two buckets need to start being filled consistently 15% of your income. And then [clears throat] above that is where you start paying off these um this real estate. So >> you know I'm just reminded of this old saying and you know you love my old saying. So I feel like I got to give you another one. >> Yes. Before we end [laughter] his old man if you chase two rabbits you

lose them both. And it feels like you're

trying to chase all the rabbits right now. And you're doing uh it sounds like you're doing a good job >> not criticizing you, but I think you have to decide again what are my priorities?

What matters most to me right now? How old are you, Eric?

>> 32. 33. Excuse me.

>> My man, you are really young. And um you

know, you you you can have it all, but rarely does someone have it all at the same time. And I that's my encouragement

to you. I hope you hear encouragement, not criticism. But I think that's what you're facing right now. Rachel nailed it. You two need to sit down together and decide what do we want right now and then what do we want in the future?

>> And $600,000 in real estate debt, that's a lot. So whether you feel that or not,

that's that's I mean that that's out there. you know what I mean? Um, >> so depending on how quickly you guys say, "We're going to keep these, but we're going to pay them off in the next four to five years, you know, and get radical and do what we can to get rid of to get rid of that debt, especially that um the rental property one." But yeah, I don't know, Eric. I There's just always time to invest in real estate in my head.

Do you know what I mean? And do it with cash. And do it with cash. >> I agree.

>> And there's just a lot of strain happening and [clears throat] in your life, too, right? You got two little kids and a baby coming >> away. >> Yeah. And I've been there.

When Dr. John says that, >> let's go. >> Solve for peace. And um >> you know how to get that many times. Just simplicity. >> Simplicity. I know. >> But he's 32. I love it. He's trying to >> The hustle is great. >> I love the hustle. But I I would downshift it into [music] simplicity.

And I think that'll be the piece that you're looking for. Thanks for listening and and uh hope we helped you out.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseyolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music] Our

scripture of the day comes from Psalm 90:12. Teach us to number our days that

we may gain a heart of wisdom. And the quote of the day, they snuck this in on me. [laughter] >> Uh I don't even remember saying this, uh

but it's my last segment on the Ramsay show. >> I know. So, I guess we close with one of my quotes. So, [laughter] dream big, ask for help, embrace failure, take the shot, and continue to climb one step at a time.

Well, that's appropriate.

>> Wow. >> Can >> So, uh quick quick uh rejoin. We uh

opened up this hour uh oh no, two hours

ago. It's gone by that fast. Um, >> it's my last uh time on the show uh as a

co-host and I'm so glad it's with you.

Uh, ending 12 years of service alongside

Dave, you uh so many amazing people here

on the team and uh so it's uh quite

weird, quite surreal.

>> It's bizarre. >> We already cried earlier.

>> Boohooed. >> We boohooed. [laughter] >> I can't get through this segment.

>> Yeah. So, uh, what a what a joy it's been. And I'm so glad that I if if I wasn't with Dave, who's out of the country, it's it's with you. And so, thank you. I know, Ken. Thank you for being here with me today. Thanks for all the the great memories. We've had some incredible memories. You helped a lot of people. >> Yes. Yes. >> And that's what's fun. >> Well, it's such a it's such a unique thing when you get to work and do this

kind of work, which is a little unique.

um together with people that you just love and you respect and you care for and um you know we're just talking I think we met 18 years ago. You've known I think Dave longer >> um and I you know and your family was walking in and seeing Josie. I mean I just remember you know you're you know Josie being that big and >> and Ty and Chase and Stacy who we just love so much.

we're we're being left >> but you do it's just the familiarity of

>> who you are and what you bring to the table. So, not only do I want people to know though for real that thank God all

of our personalities I can say this about um but for you specifically today you are what you get and the people on this show that you you know that have followed you um from the beginning uh of

your journey here at Ramsey or maybe they just joined in a month ago and you've been hosting here or front row seat um who Ken is in front of a camera

on a stage in front of a microphone is

is is come outside of this with his family, with his friends, and um that level of integrity is something you don't get all the time. >> Well, thank >> especially in this kind of job. And so that I want to say that, Ken, but also just the but but focusing on what you have done these 12 years.

>> Um and everything from the books and the shows. I'm just curious from you, what has been >> uh what's been one of your favorite things about your job? Like what do you what do you look back at? You're just like, it's that >> it's this. It's not even close. It is when you um experience a person on the

phone in this format or at a live event like we were at last night in uh in Long Beach, California.

>> When someone gets vulnerable enough

because they're they're not where they want to be >> many times in pain.

>> Yeah. >> And they trust us. I remember the first

time I did it, it's it's it's almost like you feel as though you're not worthy enough to try to help them. And then you get over that and then you begin to connect with them.

>> And uh the highest >> form of work for me has been just meeting people where they are. So you look at a guy who's weeping, whether it be a small business owner or uh a lady,

a single mom who's completely just underneath it. We had it on this last tour. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I think that when you get to step into those moments, u you

the you think that you're helping them and you get done with it and you go, "Oh my gosh, that helped my soul." >> And and here's where this ties in is because I do believe we were created to work. >> And I I think we're uniquely and wonderfully made. And I think when you can do that that for me like I enjoy the the pressure of being on the mic and all these buttons and you [laughter] know >> in and out of stuff. >> Yeah.

>> And so the most rewarding is to talk to you folks. Um I will miss this terribly.

Uh, I'll probably just find some guy in the grocery store and go, "Do you need to be coached for a moment?" [laughter] And you know, >> where are you when you're Yeah. >> the proximity principle. Lay this out for you. >> Can I ask some piercing questions for a moment? Uh, that's the highest uh honor I've had. That's the work I've enjoyed the most is is just being a small, and I do mean small uh part of watching people

transform their lives. I mean, the work we do here is about people, and that's the most rewarding. >> Yeah, I love that. I love it.

Okay, so we said because we boohooed the first time we we crying. I know. I came out of nowhere and I was like I think I've been up since 4 o' this morning.

He's like he's been talking this is what he coaches people to do and then when it happens Yeah. um you know and and you get to make this next step into something that is is different um but

but something that is so exciting for you. >> Yeah, I I um because of the sensitivity of the announcement, I can say that I'm be stepping into an executive role and I will be taking the experience and the skill set that I have developed over time before I got to Ramsey and then honed it uh at Ramsey and uh I'm going

to be helping communicate. That's what I love to do is to communicate. I love words. You know how much I love words.

>> Love Ken loves to talk. >> I love a good word. I do love to talk. I do love to [laughter] talk. Um and and I and I'm going to be in an executive role. Um and it's a major step up. This is what I've preached to people. Uh and this entire this entire opportunity came to me folks through a personal

relationship. >> It came through the real life proximity

principle of just being around highquality people. um and you have

conversations. Two of my favorite things to do is to connect with new people and

to get to know people. And uh I ask a

lot of questions and I just didn't know that I was asking questions that created >> Yeah. >> uh what is now an opportunity that uh and I want to be very clear here that God has completely opened the door and and then you're presented with okay I I

I've got a great gig.

>> Yeah. But this is a great challenge and I think it's probably core to who I am.

I hope everybody that's ever heard me coach believes that this is authentic to who I am. When God opens a door, I think you walk through it. >> Mhm. >> So, it's tough, very sad, uh, but also

excited. The analogy I gave to our team is what I'll give to the audience. I feel like um, you feel like when you read a good book, you're midway through the book and you start telling all your friends and family about it. OH, THIS BOOK IS SO GOOD. RIGHT.

>> YES. YES. and you're telling about it and what you're doing is you're talking about the past. You're talking about what you've experienced as a reader on those pages. And then when you get home that night, >> you can't wait to crack the next chapter. >> And I think that's where I'm at. Um and and I would close with this. I you know me, I got to close with a challenge.

>> Um >> to this audience, you come to us because

Dave so long ago said this is about

hope, right? Hope. And here I'm getting choked.

[snorts] So my favorite scripture, Isaiah 40

31.

>> You can do it. >> I got this. >> You can do it. Take a take a breath.

>> Those who wait on the Lord, in some translations, those who hope in the Lord shall mount up on wings like eagles.

says the description here is soaring.

There'll be seasons of your life where you're going to soar. And then Isaiah downshifts. And he goes, "Those who run

will not grow weary, and those who walk will not faint." And I think that's such a beautiful scripture for this audience.

My final challenge is that no matter

where you are on these baby steps, you are doing this because you long for freedom. The spirit of the Lord, the Bible says, brings liberty, freedom. And

so, I would want you, no matter how hard it is, wherever you are and however you're getting through these steps, don't miss what Dave based this entire company on in this show, hope. Where does that hope come from? The Lord.

He'll get you through. He's with you.

He's beside you. He's in front of you.

He's behind you. Trust him. Please give

it a shot. I'll let you down. He won't.

So, as Dave has said for decades, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. It's been my honor. Love you all.

>> [music]

---

## 37. Do the Right Thing Even When It’s Hard | September 19, 2025


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `WhIyLzwoh1M` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhIyLzwoh1M) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:07:19 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

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[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform

your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author Dr. John Delo. >> What up? >> And if you want to give us a call at 888255225.

We are taking your calls about life and money. First up, we have Sarah in New

Jersey. Hey Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. >> Absolutely. How can we help today? Okay.

So, my dad passed away a few months ago, which hallelujah, he's with the Lord.

And my oldest brother has power of attorney. He's had it for years. He's the executive and the trustee.

>> Okay. >> Um he said that there is basically nothing left to inherit. And my other brother and I know differently. So, we

wanted to know is there anything that we can do to try to recruit recoup what dad

wanted us and our children to have?

>> Yeah. I actually just talked to some people uh who have experienced something similar and yes um but it's going to require getting law enforcement involved.

>> Okay. >> Sarah, how do you how do you know that there's something else? Was there another document? Was it just what he told you verbally or how do you know something else is there? >> So, right in 2017, I saw a document, an

investment document, and dad had at least $250,000 in an estate.

>> Okay. Okay. And then between his pension and social security, he would have added minimally another 250,000. We're

thinking more like 3 to 4,000 $100,000

over the last seven years. >> Okay. >> And when he passed away, did he have any

liabilities? Did they Did he have debt?

>> No. >> He was completely debtree. How about the home? >> Um he lived No, that was my brother's home. >> Oh, so he lived with your brother, >> right? Okay. Right. He Oh, I'm sorry.

Yes, he lived with my brother. He and my mom lived with my brother for seven years. >> Okay. >> So, is there a chance that your brother decided that this is what he was owed for having taken care of him or trying to back pay himself or something?

>> Um, no. Cuz my dad paid him rent every month. >> Okay. Have you seen Have you seen the will? >> Uh, yes. I had to go on to the um county

and get actually get my own copy. and we did not know that there was a trust um except that we finally saw in the will that there was a trust and the only money he put in the trust was account with about $30,000 cuz I think most of my dad's other money was basically cash in in his account. So my my bigger

concern here is I is your thinking

>> to Rachel's point.

>> It's like 2017 you saw this. Like who

knows if your dad and your brother >> thought it was a good idea in 2019 to move everything into crypto and he lost it all. Who knows? >> Oh, no. No, he did not.

>> I know. I I know you think he didn't, but I'm telling you right now, when documents come out and families sit down around the table, there's always that's why Dave Ramsey for years have been saying, >> let everybody in your family know on a regular basis what the status of stuff is, >> right? >> Because people think and they assume and you probably, if you're like me, have already spent your what you think your the number is minus your third. In your head, you've already allocated that and now it feels even hard, right?

Oh, you haven't?

>> I do that all the time. because I've dealt with my brother for years.

>> Okay. So, what's the what's your brother saying to you, Sarah, when you and your other brother come to him and say, "Hey, where's dad's inher where's our inheritance from dad?" What does he say?

>> Um, well, he told he told my other brother that um in 20 um 21 that dad

gave him money for his divorce sentiment and to pay his attorney and that and my

brother said, "Where's the rest of the money?" And he goes, "Oh, dad said I could just have the rest." >> Yeah. So, you're going to have to get you're going to have to call a non-emergency line and and let them know and they may direct you back to the courthouse. They may send out a because here's what it is. It's theft.

>> Oh. Oh, yeah. I know. >> I I know. But but think about think about it this way. It's as though he stole a bicycle from you.

>> Right. Right. but he stole money and it's you're gonna have to go sit down and they're going to do some sort of forensic accounting and somebody's gonna have to get on the case and it's going to take weeks and or months or whatever, but they're going have to go through it all and figure out where that money actually is, >> right? Okay.

So, you think we need Oh, go ahead. >> Well, and I think we asked you that Sarah, we did ask you this, but I can't remember what I'm sorry what you said. >> Yeah.

>> Oh, yes. I've seen the will and I >> And what is supposed to be owed to you?

What does it say on the will? Um I am

the will says that I is supposed to be be split between the three of us.

>> Okay. >> The to okay the total amount of what was. >> So yeah. So what you're going to have to do is figure out what the total was at his death everything. And since there is no debt there's nothing else to pay. So it would be that total >> right now. >> And you have not seen that correct?

>> No. Oh no. Cuz he's supposed to of course give us an accounting and he has not done that. Yeah.

>> And usually they have two years to do something like I mean every state's different. The the folks I was talking to there was two years to and it was to settle the account, right? To sell all the assets and then divvy them up and all that kind of stuff, >> right? Um >> Yeah.

But he um now the will is a pourover will. So everything is supposed to go in the trust >> and the trust says that he's supposed to get half of it and then the rest is split between the two of us. >> Do you guys have an attorney that's working with you? Well, that's where we're that's that's where we're going from this point.

Whether we need to get an attorney or do we go right to the police? >> You know what?

Rachel, you're right. Don't don't go don't call local sheriff's office yet.

Go get an attorney and let them know what you're working through.

>> You'll pay them some, you know, retainer up front to be able to go through everything. >> That's the right move. That's the right move. >> Um, >> but yeah. So, I mean, and is this in character for your brother? Like, is this not shock is this shocking to you?

Are you thinking like, "Oh my gosh." Or is it like, "Oh no, I'm not shocked that he's doing this." >> No, it's not shocking to me. I realized many years ago he's a narcissist. And um but unfortunately my other brother was devastated that he would do this to us >> and he said um what kind of a Christian man is he to do this to dad and and you know our families. >> Yeah.

>> So that's you know cuz he professes to be a Christian. >> Well, and we got we have to you have to put that stuff aside and Yeah.

everything. Yeah.

>> And and and my prayer is Sarah that yeah, this all gets worked out and there is close to half a million in there, you know, and your dad's legacy lives on.

But but also the cynical side of us that sit in this chair and we hear every story imaginable to John's point earlier. I mean, leave a little bit of of a realist realistic idea to Sarah

that who know like you may get into this and think, "Oh my gosh, this whole story that I made up in my head of what I thought actually isn't even reality." >> Yeah. He may show you the receipts and say, "Hey, there was no money in that account. I don't know what you saw, but there's nothing there." Or it will say, "This account was liquidated on this date and that money was deposited in this account." Right. So, it's easy.

It's an easy trail to follow.

>> Yeah, for sure. There should be a good paper trail for it. And by the way, maybe telling your brother, "Hey, here's the deal. We know there's money in an account. We're about to hire an attorney. This is going to become a criminal matter. You can do what's right." >> Yeah. It's illegal what he's doing. Exactly. Yeah. >> Or um we're going to go down this road.

>> You're going to end up in jail for stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, >> Right. Yeah. That's what I mean cuz my

brother and I have discussed all these different things. >> I know. Can I tell you this? Stop.

Stop talking about it. >> Go act. Y'all are making yourselves crazy. That's why I called you cuz I thought before we act, I want to call you and see what kind of advice, you know, and that's that's kind of what we've been thinking.

>> Yeah. No more stories. No more like, can you believe I thought he was a Christian? We're not doing any of that.

We're just going to call the attorney before the day is over. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. No.

>> Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for the the passing of your dad and that money

gets gets caught up in relationships and families. It does. Absolutely. So Sarah, I'm really um I'm sorry for you guys and I hope you get clarity. I hope you get the answers that you're looking for for sure. So thanks for calling.

[Music]

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[Music]

Up next, we have Matthew in Pennsylvania. Hey, Matthew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how's it going?

>> We're doing well. How are you?

>> I am doing so great right now. So great.

>> Fantastic. >> I'm so glad. >> What's up? >> Yeah. Um, first of all, sorry if I sound like very overhyped. I just love you guys so much. I've I've heard about you guys so much. I've seen so many of your videos and I'm a big big fan. So, this is just a true blessing. It really is.

>> Do we love it? We have to hang out with George Campbell backstage and he's such a downer. So, it's good to hear somebody that's like positive, man. It's great.

>> Oh, man. I love George Campbell, too.

But I love Dave and, you know, Jade also. Like, they will tell it straight up. >> That is true. >> Seriously. >> Yeah. >> And Rachel are too nice.

>> So, what's up, dude? >> How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, um this is a twopart question for me. Um, I am 26 years old

and I've had a I've had some thoughts about um, you know, potentially dating again. I did I was in a relationship, but um, I moved off that a year or so ago, but you know, going forward in my next relationship, I just wanted to know like how do I deal with the relationship

and also like financials also, you know,

how do I ask the question, how do you feel about debt and when should I ask that question? First date, dude. First I'm totally kidding. Don't do that.

Don't do that.

>> Kathy's like, "Can I really see your tax returns?" So, not >> Ramy weirdos and then there's those that ask about debt on the first date. Don't be that person.

>> Um, I mean, I don't know. John's the relationship expert, but I would I would think Matthew, you know, as you're dating someone, important conversations hopefully are being had in general, right? learning about the person, understanding them, you're hearing about their family, their likes, their dislikes, um what they think about spirituality, you know, what do they value around money? I I don't know.

I I see it always, you know, people ask this question. For me, and again, maybe it's because I talk about money all the time, so I'm super comfortable with it. But it to me, it's just part of building a relationship.

And as you get to know that person, you're going to know and ask questions and be curious about that part of their life in general as you're dating. And to John's point, it's not usually on the first date, but if you continue to go on dates, you know, I mean, it's like, what are you talking about? You know, we should be talk having good conversation, right, of getting to know the person, and that's just part of a person.

>> I I'll say this too, Matthew. This is something I learned, and I was surprised by it. Um, when I was doing my counseling practicum back in graduate school, I remember being caught off guard by clients would come in and tell me literally everything. They'd tell me

about their sex intimacy lives on session one. They would tell me about traumas. They would tell me about everything in their life. And if I ever asked them, hey, how much money are you making? What's your financial situation?

How much do you owe other people?

Nothing. They wouldn't have that conversation. And so it is a such a our

culture has turned it into such a a binary. You're a winner or you're a loser based on this number. And so it is

for for people like me and Rachel, we just kind of talk about everything all the time. >> But it's a sensitive question.

>> Yes. Okay. So you're saying more though, John, in like what you have, what you don't have, your number, all of that.

>> But I I mean I don't know, but when it comes to values of like, oh, hey, do you because he's asking, you know, about debt or like, you know, different things. It's not necessarily about what they have >> now, if you get into those numbers, which you need to that can probably feel more personal. But from a values conversation, do you think it still is like touchy? >> No.

I I think I think I think to let me put it this way. I would not not date somebody because they owed money. I would not not I wouldn't not marry somebody because they were in debt. Um if they said, "I have student loans.

I'm never paying these back. I think that's stupid. I don't care about any of that kind of stuff." Then we're going to talk about values, right?

there's an entry point into so dude tell me about your job. Are you are you successful? Do you like where you are?

Are what are your dreams for yourself?

that turns into, well, I owe this much money. Like, oh gosh, how quick are you going to pay that stuff off? And it can be a fun, inquisitive, curious conversation. And then if that person says, I'm never doing that. You can be like, oh, I'm one of those Dave Ramsey crazy people. What's that? And you can kind of talk through that. I don't like owe anybody anything. And that's a way to get into a valuesladen conversation.

My fear is always that people who are raised um who are come from Ramsay households or who discover this thing and get so passionate about how the freedom they feel. >> It's the first thing to talk about. >> It's like, "Hey, do you do you know do you are you getting out of debt?

>> Are you going up to the matches your 401k? >> Right. Are you are you funding your 401k fully? And like those questions would be bananas in the first or second.

It'd be like saying like, "Hey, tell me about your ex-boyfriend. What were the your three favorite things and your three things you hated the worst of?" Like you wouldn't do that, right? But there's ways to get to some of those answers as you're learning about each other. And yes, it will naturally come up, but particularly focus on the values part of this conversation.

And then when you start thinking about like I think this person maybe is the one. Then you start getting into the nitty-gritty like hey we're talking about merging households and budgets and I don't want to marry somebody if we're not going to share a checking account.

>> Matthew did you said you want to jump back into the dating pool. Did you find that money was a barrier in last in past

relationships at all? Or you're kind of newer to this and you're thinking, okay, how do I navigate that part of my life with this new knowledge of how to handle money?

Well, I've listened to you guys for some time now, and I've heard a bunch of stories about how, oh, one couple

started dating, but then it didn't go the way they wanted just because of financials, or like how one how a couple

got married, you know, but then like one's a spender, one's a saver, or the other way around, and it just turned into some sort of a nightmare.

>> Well, that's going to be every relationship. Every relationship is going to have people that bring different strengths. I'm a spender and

my wife is a planner and a saver. And if

I owe money, I can't sleep at night. A

mortgage doesn't bother my wife at all.

Not even a little bit. And so when we sit down, I know that I'm a spender.

She's a saver. I know that debt makes me clinically nutty and it makes her it doesn't bother her. And so we're bringing both of our uses to the table to say, as for us, the household that we're building, who are we going to become, >> my wife knows she married somebody that just doesn't want to owe anybody anything. Great.

Okay, cool. I know that I married somebody that is going to say, "Hey, we made a plan. Let's stick to this plan." And I'm glad I have that accountability. So, if you're trying to find someone who saves just like you save, you're you're destined for a pretty boring life, but you want to have somebody that has the same values as you do.

other things happening underneath the surface that they never really address to begin with. So, I do think it's really important um that you are putting weight to this subject in life because it can make or break a relationship 100%. But what John's saying too, make sure not to get legalistic in the sense of because I and I'm like John, I'm a spender. Winston's a saver.

Winston has the Excels and the Excel sheets and the five-year visions and the tech. I mean, this, you know, the Excel sells with the formulas and it's crazy. Like, I'm like, "Okay, that's great. I don't I don't want to look at that.

I get a migraine." Like, "No, thank you.

going as a couple in a family are exactly aligned, but how we're doing it maybe from our habits or the way we look at money may be a little different, but it's not detrimental. It's just who we are. And you don't want to lose that either. You know, you don't want to lose who you are because that's the beautiful part of a marriage is you both bring yourself. >> Um, but again, it's it's the deeper conversation of the values. Matthew, >> here's the way I'll say this. There's a difference between values and beliefs.

>> That's good. People who are married have to share values, but you want your beliefs to be different. I don't want to I don't want to read It helps if they're lined up. That's great and cool. It makes things less um volatile, but the

reason I read new books is try to learn new things so I can I have a belief about something and I get to change my belief. That's why you listen to this podcast. That's why you you you have friends, >> you read parenting books. If you're reading books, I believe this, I don't believe that.

But our value is we're always going to talk to each other before we make a decision. We're a family who believes in this. We're a family who you see what I'm saying? So identify those values.

And when you're dating somebody, you want somebody that's aligned on values. But when it comes to beliefs, I I'm of the opinion that the more fun, the more varied the beliefs, the more fun you can have if you're both anchored into the same values.

>> Okay.

[Music]

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[Music]

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or if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we will leave a link below. All right, next we have Isaac in Virginia. Hey, Isaac. Welcome

to the show.

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So, my wife and I inherited my grandparents house on our family farm, and we've looked into renovations and stuff for it, and we're running into issues of it, it's just going to cost so much to renovate and do an addition. We can do a new house cheaper. And so, we're like, okay, we'll fix it up a little bit, rent it out. and we're running into problems with um I guess family wanting us to know don't build a new house and not wanting more houses on the property.

moving forward there? Do we push to do the right financial thing or do we just tear it down and build a new one in the same spot? Anytime of a a family,

anytime a I'm not saying of a couple, I would say a person too, but you and your you and your and your wife, right?

Anytime you feel like you are hemmed in with an eitheror decision, do we either make a a foolish financial decision or or spend more money than we can afford right now to do a thing to keep family happy or we

blow everything up? And I always want folks to back up out of that either or situation and artificially put three, five, 10 other variables on the table

just to go through the exercise of we're not trapped in a this one or that one.

Very few decisions are either or. Okay.

And there's always more context there.

My first question for you is, did your grandmother, did your grandfather, did they let you know, hey, we want you to have this land in this house? Did like, okay, tell me about that conversation. >> Well, in advance, they didn't want us to buy a house what, like 13 years ago when we bought the house we're in because they were sure they were going to die really soon. >> Okay. And so they said, like, we want this to be y'alls, right?

>> Yep. >> Okay. >> And what did you want?

Well, that's where we always wanted to be, but like five years ago, for $300,000, we could of renovations and additions, we could have had a dream house. Now, you're looking at 600 to 700,000, >> right? >> Which we could afford, but it's just to

us, it's just foolish. It's not like our uh our income hasn't grown as much as housing prices. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Right. Right. >> So, how's your family chirping in on this?

Um, so well in order to build a new house still on the property, I would

have to put it on land that I own 50/50 with my father.

>> That's and he's he's had a rough year.

Um, he my mom left after 42 years and so

he's he never liked being pushed on anything before and uh he's really doesn't want to be pushed now. So you, if we're honest, another variable on the table is you don't really have this option yet.

>> I don't have that option. But and then it's like, well, we're going to tear it down maybe and build a new one because I can build a new one cheaper than I can renovated the same square footage and finishes. >> I can build a brand new house and not have any um compromises.

>> You could, but if the co-owner of that land says, "No, you can't." >> Well, no, the house the house as it is, I own outright. Okay. You're saying if you keep it, rent it out and built a new one then where the new one.

>> That was our initial plan. Okay. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> But now we're to the point of just tearing it down and building a new one on the same site. >> So could option three or five or 10 or whatever wherever we are. Could it be to do nothing for one year and just relax for a second? Let your dad heal a little bit. Let the smoke clear a little bit

>> maybe. >> Because it feels like there's this impulse. We got to do something. We got to do something. We got to do something. And you really don't. Yeah, we we don't

have to. We're just kind of drowning where we are. And I live I don't live on the farm as it is now. And so like my life, my kids' life, our overall family life would be better.

>> Isaac, do you want to live in that house in general? Like do you want to move on family property? Do you So you do So the idea of being in that house, if it was a dream house, that's great. You guys are all good with that.

>> Yeah. It doesn't have to be a house. You want to be on the farm and we like the house as it is with the plans we have for the addition and stuff.

>> Sure. >> It's not like a mansion. I mean, >> could you live in it for two years? >> Yeah. Book it. Is it livable? >> Could you just live in it for two years?

>> Um, >> yes, you could. >> You'd have to upgrade the flooring.

They've already like car. We've already started doing some demo. >> I mean, if you did paint and carpet, could you live in it? Like plumbing wise, all of that? Okay. So, what I would probably do, that's where you guys want to be >> about that. We just worry we'd never do anything if we did that. >> Yeah. But that's a that's a that's that's a problem for future you, right?

Like like fix the carpet, make it liveable. You'll exhale and be like, "All right, we're gonna do this for 24 months >> and we're not gonna owe anybody anything. We're gonna sell our house, get out from drowning." >> You'll actually probably make better decisions doing that living in it than saying, "Oh, let's just make the biggest best thing we could ever do renovation wise." You'll probably end up saving money, honestly, once you're in it. And saying, "Okay, what do we want?" But also, also, Isaac, like this is this is always the sticky part when family gets involved with property and all of this, right?

and the land, right? You own the land as well, correct? I >> own the land the house is on. >> And how many acres is the land that you have now that came from your grandparents?

>> I have 10 acres, but it's just it's the

outbuilding. It's just it's just a partial design. >> And no one else who who how big's the farm? Where is everyone else living that's speaking into this decision with you? >> Uh my father lives next uh 60 yards away

from my grandparents house.

>> Okay. Different plot of like property though, right? I mean, he owns that is what you're saying. >> Property. Who's >> else? Who else is on the on the farm?

>> That's just us. It's just us. >> So then who's mad that you would tear it down and build something new?

>> My father. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, there's >> So So I I would move in for a month or I mean for a year, for two years.

>> Cuz here's the problems I'm hearing that you need to solve right away. Right away. And the life you have right now, you're drowning.

>> Yeah. >> You have a life raft right here. It's not a It's not a boat, but it's a life raft. >> It's a free house.

I mean, house. Let's put five grand in it and paint it and get the car the flooring updated and maybe even get the kitchen counters redone and let's exhale for 24 months, a year, one year, two years. And then let's get dad. Dad's in a deep season of deep grieving.

Who is he? What's going on? All that stuff. Having you right there, having the grandkids around, that might give him some extra life.

If it comes down to it in a year or two, >> you might say, "Dad, this is mine. and I'm going to tear this down and build it and we're going to go rent a two-bedroom apartment till that day comes. But my hope would be through relationship, you don't get there.

>> But Rachel's right. If you go run in right now with a dream, without having lived out there, without having just experienced the ups and the downs and the winter and the >> I'm I've I've done all that. I mean, I grew up in my father. >> Okay. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. My whole life.

So, where where are you guys financially, Isaac? How much debt do you and your wife have?

Um, I don't know the total. We have a separate farm business. Um,

but that's business >> consumer debt. Like, do you guys have credit cards, car loans? Like, where are you guys at? >> Oh, no. We have like two payments left on her car. My truck's paid off. We have our mortgage basically, and I think she has a little bit of student loan, but I think it's going to be paid off by the end of the year. >> Okay. There's a lot of I thinks in there, Isaac. So, you got Okay.

financials, but I do know her student loans are all but done and we have two car payments left on her flight.

>> Perfect. How much do you guys have in savings?

>> Um,

less than >> Yeah. Before you go knocking anything down, you need to know the number.

>> Okay. So, I would be looking at savings. Isaac, how much equity do you have in your home? If you sold it right now versus what you owe, how much would you all walk away with?

>> Low side, like 125.

>> 125. Okay. So, I would for you for your

sake, Isaac, you need to get your financial take in order. You need to be able to rattle off these numbers, you and your wife on the same page. Um, it's it's a it's a great if it's a house that you guys can live in, I would sell yours. Go ahead and move in and then from there figure out, do we cash flow reser um renovations andor do we tear it

down and build something with a reasonable mortgage?

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music]

Up next, we have Cam in Ohio. Hi, Cam.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing well. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I uh I just feel like I'm always buried in debt, buried in stress, anxiety. Um, I have a pretty good job.

It's a sales job. Um, I netted about 140,000 last year. Uh, my wife does her own thing. Um, and she makes about 25,000 a year. Um, we have, uh, debt

with a main mortgage. We owe about 276,000 there. I have a second mortgage

that I owe about 130,000. And then we

have a truck loan for $18,000 and a car loan for 6,000. Um, all of our payments

combined, uh, monthly are about $4,500 a month. And I just want to know what the best way is to start getting out of debt and be less stressed. I've I've made some mistakes financially in my life that I want to get out of.

>> And I just I don't know what the best way to do it is. I'm I mean, I'm I we have about 11,000 in our savings. I have I dump $600 a month into my Roth IRA to

max that out every year and I also pay

$100 a month for for life insurance for my wife and I. >> And so I just and I don't know what to do. >> I want to tell you this before we turn over to Rachel. She'll walk you through she'll give you 100% if you follow the path. It'll work. Okay. But I want to tell you we take we take calls I've

taken thousands of calls over the years.

There's a there's a particular um tone

that somebody when they call in that you can hear it in their voice. They're done. >> They're done with the stress. They're done with anxiousness. And I can hear that in you. And it it it fills me up with joy because I know I can give you a path out of this thing. Okay.

>> You just have to be willing to surrender and say, "What I've been doing is not working. I make too much money." >> Yes. >> To um be this sick into my stomach all

the time. Are you in? >> Yeah. Yeah, I am in. >> That's awesome, man. Awesome. >> That's great. Um, Kim, what is the second mortgage for? Is that on your primary home, like a HELOC, or do you guys have a second property?

>> Yes. So, it's on our primary home. So, we bought our home uh 5 years ago with a good interest rate. We have a 2.8% interest rate on that, but then it had an unfinished basement and needed a roof. So, I got a second mortgage to finish the basement and put a roof on it. >> Okay. Um, and when did you guys do that?

How long ago? >> Uh, a a year ago.

>> Okay. Okay. So, I would lump that

mortgage, both mortgages into baby step six. So, our seven baby steps is really walking through how to get out of debt, get to a place where you're saving for retirement and paying off the mortgage.

So, if the basically a heliloc, right, that you took out, you you you borrowed money on your house, if it's more than 50% of your income, we lump that into a second mortgage. So, what I'm going to be thinking through with you right now is the the the car payments is really

what you have. I mean, it's about $24,000 in vehicle debt that you all

have now. You have $11,000 in savings, which is great. You're funding $600 in retirement. You're doing that.

You know, you named off a couple of things which are all all good things. I

would just reorder how you're doing them because you're trying to do 18 different things at once and you're not getting traction. Is that right? Is that how you feel? >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So, what I would do if I were you, I would pause all retirement including the Roth because you're putting $600 a month is what you said, right? To max it out, which is great, but that's nice if you have 600 to give when you don't have all these payments, right? So, so I would pause all retirements of what you guys are doing.

And do you all have kids?

One. Yes, we have one. >> You have one. Okay. And is your wife is she home with >> Yeah. Y >> with the kid. Okay. >> Well, she does she she works out of the house doing nails. Uh but she likes to be a stay at home mom. >> Yeah. Good for her. Well, she's bringing in Yeah. some great money doing that.

That's awesome. >> Um about two grand a month. I mean, yeah, that's a great side hustle. So, if I woke up in your shoes, I would pause that retirement. Uh I would throw 10,000

of the 11,000, which is going to make you really nervous, um at the car. So, I'd pay off your truck today. Um, and then you would have 14,000 left on your truck. Now, how much is the payment for the $6,000 car?

>> 250. >> 250. Okay. So, that frees up 250. So, even in this call, we just freed up close to $900 a month that you can now throw extra at the truck, which you'll

have again $13,000 left. So, I would work to pay this off completely. And you

guys make great money. I mean, you're making 165. So, I mean, I I would do

everything to get this paid off, gosh, uh, to I mean, maybe in the next 6 months or something, you know, to to have an aggressive goal because the faster you guys can do this and get some traction under you, the faster you're going to see some wins because what's great is you freed up that 250 payment once the truck's paid off. How much is that payment a month?

>> 330. >> 330. Okay. So then you get to that point

and what you're able to do then is go

back or or have some savings. Go back and rebuild your savings after the truck after the cars are all paid off to about a threemonth ex I I would probably do three month emergency 3 to four month for you guys. Um and then you can press play back on retirement and then the big >> tackle then is going to be these mortgages. And I would keep them separate for now because I'm assuming your for your first mortgage is going to have a better interest rates.

We're not too concerned about interest rates, but >> on something like this, um, I probably wouldn't consolidate at this point.

paid off, and then the and then the 270.

So, you kind of emotionally feel like you have $400 $400,000

of a house to pay off in baby step six is what that's going to amount to.

So, with my with my savings that $11,000, I had like 20 uh the other day

that I was listening to you guys' show.

I took nine of it and I dumped it on our car uh to pay it off a little bit quicker. But I also about six months ago picked up my real estate license and I have a couple deals right now that um if I close on them, I'll be able to wipe my vehicle debt out. >> Oh my gosh. Amazing. >> With that, >> would you still deplete that or get it

done? Yes. And here's two things I want you to feel. Okay? Number one, project

out nine months >> to where you don't owe anybody anything.

>> Okay? >> Yeah. >> To get there in that time frame, it's going to be miserable. No going out to eat. >> Y'all y'all eating whatever you got left in the fridge, somebody going to to the grocery store and getting bare minimum at 7:30 at night after a long day of work. Like, that's what you're signing up for. That's going to be miserable.

and you continuing on this path for the

next nine months is going to be miserable. So what you're choosing is you're choosing your hard. It's people like to think like I don't want to do this cuz that's too hard. I'm just going to keep living my life which is miserable. And so I'm going to choose my hard that's going to get me to where I want to go. >> That's number one. Number two, I want

that anxiousness of we only have $1,000.

All we have is enough money in case one or two of our tires blows out with the cost of tires these days. It is designed to be just take the edge off like just the sharpest dull that tip of that of that pointy knife of fear just a little bit and to fuel you because I promise you if you only have a thousand bucks, you're going to hustle on those two on those two um real estate deals >> because you want that.

>> The moment you get those things paid off, you're going to start building back your emergency fund and then you're going to be your own credit card.

And that's what three months in an account. If you got 20, 30 grand and you've you've done two deals and you're able to knock that out with that money.

>> I'm telling you, man, you will sleep.

You will laugh different in your house. Your marriage will be different. I mean, everything changes.

>> Yeah. And then you'll knock for it, >> dude. Then knock out 10 real estate deals plus your income and you're out of your house in the next 36 months, too.

You like it? It becomes this >> snowball effect. >> Powerful small wins. >> Cam, do you guys do a detailed budget every month? You and your wife sit down and say, "Here's exactly where the income's going to go." >> We haven't. And that's why I've made a mistake is we started making really good money and I always told myself I wouldn't grow into it and then guess what? I same thing. All of us are there.

>> Lifestyle creep. No, I know. So, seriously, Cam, I mean, I think it'd be a really great exercise because you I know how you feel. Like John said, I can I can hear it in your voice.

You feel out of control. You're like, "Oh my gosh, like there's like our money's going everywhere. I feel like there's no tra you know, all of it." But I'm telling you, if you do a plan, if you guys sit down and do a monthly budget, we're going to give you every dollar for free for the next year. Kelly will pick up when we're done with this call.

Um, and what this is, it's not only a budgeting app, but it's going to be able to ask you about a 15minute questionnaire at the beginning when you sign into the app. And what it's going to do is it's going to give you all these recommendations, and it's going to walk you through this whole process of what we've done on the phone, but it's going to extend, which is wonderful. So, again, you just need a plan. You guys need to sit down.

You need to live on nothing.

This is going to be a challenge for you, but it's going to be good for you and your wife to do. Throw everything you guys have at these cars. Get them paid off. Throw everything at an emergency fund. Get it built up. And I'm telling you, Cam, you're going to feel different. You're going to feel different even just that. So, hold on the line and Kelly's going to pick up.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio and we have some breaking news. We are so excited about this. There is a now a co-branded Ramsay and Fairwinds debit card that is now available on it. It's

got dead as normal be weird. So all of

your purchases that you make, >> they're putting the number up there for Is it on the front? Oh, it's on. And it's I think it's I don't think it's like a I don't know. I don't think it's real.

>> Okay. >> This isn't mine. >> Yes, it is. >> No, it's not.

Mine's coming. Mine's in the mail. I got the email. Mine's coming I think in the next like three business days.

Can't wait. Uh, but the Fair Winds. Yep. The Where's the Where's our Oh, there we are.

I was trying to get the camera for YouTube so you can see it. It's beautiful. So great. But Fairwinds is incredible, you guys.

It's a credit union that's partnered with Ramsay.

You want your financial um partner, your bank to be for you in this process of getting out of debt and saving, and Fair Winds Credit Union does that. So, they are absolutely incredible. We are so excited to partner with them and the new debit card which will be Yeah.

>> Can I tell you what I love about the debit card? Dave and I were talking about this. >> I love this is a way to literally change

the way servers and restaurant folks

think of Ramsey folks and people are getting out of debt. I want it to be when they see that card, they know they're going to get so generously tipped. >> Like get a good tip. Yes.

>> Yeah. They're going to like, oh, these are these are amazing people.

people or whoever's taken like that.

That's the message that permeates the folks who are running around with this card. I love it. >> They want people with this card because they know they're good people. That's awesome. So great. >> Generous people. Yeah. >> So you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey org/ramsey to sign up for the smart bundle and that

includes the Ramsay debit card. So, we're so excited about that. All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. She is up

next. Hey, Susan. Welcome to the show.

>> How are you all doing today? >> Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

>> Oh, trudging through life right now.

>> Okay. What's going on? >> Um couple weeks ago, my husband um asked

me for a divorce.

>> Oh gosh. He's pretty serious about it.

Um, of course I don't want it, but that's just how life is. And right now,

we uh we don't have any debt. We all record our cards are paid off. Um, all of our, you know, collections are paid off. The only debt we have is our house.

Um, property is worth about $400,000,

give or take a little bit, and we only have $159,000 left on it. >> Okay. Um, we have about 84,000 in

savings. Um, and he has a traditional

pension and I have a a regular 401 401k.

>> Yep. >> Um, he's already said that he's not going to touch my 401k as long as I don't make a claim against his pension.

>> Whoa. >> Um, >> what?

>> Yeah. >> How much is in your 401k?

>> About right now about 375,000.

>> Okay. I put in n I put in 19% and my

company matches 12.

>> Okay, >> here's where I said, whoa. He walked in >> unbeknownst to you and just said, I want a divorce. I'm tired of being married to you. And then started flexing on you. If you don't do this, I won't do that.

Yeah, it it there had been a couple signs coming up and I I'd saw them and then we had a argument one night and it

wasn't anything like serious and uh he

said I'm done and he left three weeks ago, >> man. >> Well, before you start making handshake deals with him, I would sit down with your attorney to make sure this is all right and fair. Because if you've been paying all the bills for 20 or 30 years

and he was able to and his pension's worth $7 million or you know what I mean? Like if it like it may not be apples to apples I before you started shaking hands and saying this is this is cool. I won't do this but you do that.

>> Sit down with an attorney.

>> That's that's one thing but right now I'm more concerned about you know if you do get to that point I want to I want to save the house. I want to stay in the house. >> Okay. >> And >> what has he said about that >> with you guys? Have you talked about that at all?

>> No, he's not returning any phone calls or speaking at this point. So, I can't get to that point asking. >> Yeah, but your goal is wanting to keep the house, >> right? And I've done some of the simple math as far as what you know, the cash we have in savings, selling off. We've

got some classic vehicles, selling them off, and I've come to the realization

that I would probably need about $50,000

to pay them off to to buy the whole property outright. but and still retain the loan that's the u $159,000 loan. The

question is um you know I do have that 375 in my 401k. Would that be it? I mean

that's the only place I could think to go to get that to pay him off because taking out you know like a second mortgage wouldn't make sense because the

first mortgage plus a second would be well above you know what I could pay every month for for mortgage payment.

So, you're saying you wouldn't be able to afford the home without taking money out of your 401k?

>> Correct. The the the mortgage right now is about$,650 a month. And, you know, I always try to stay at the the rule of, you know, one-third of your income for your your your housing. Um, >> yeah, but but taking borrowing from your 401k in this situation, because all this

is hypothetical right now, he may just sign the house over to you and be gone.

But if you had to write him a check for 50 grand, you taking that from your what

I would I'm gonna tell you is not a humongous it's not bad, but it's not a humongous 401k. You're going to be taking that out at 30 or 40% interest.

It's like going to a bank and asking for a 40% loan. You can do that.

>> Yeah. How old are you, Susan?

>> Uh 46. >> Okay. Yeah. No, I I would not touch the 401k, Susan. Um, I would figure out a

way within the equity and the payment plan back to him, um, if he's willing to negotiate. And this will be probably your attorneys, I'm assuming, you know, doing a lot of this kind of >> mediation. Yeah. Um, to figure out how

you can keep the house and have a plan that's reasonable for your income. Um,

but yeah, it would be it would not I could I I would not feel good to say take money out of your 401k and be hit with that amount of fees and taxes and

and all of it because it's before 59 and a half. Um, >> right. >> And I will feel good about saying just don't. >> Yeah. Don't do that. >> Yeah. >> I would rather see you either if he walked out say, "Okay, then I'm keeping the house." And if he says absolutely not, I want this and this and this. At at the very at the very least, we're going to put this on a payment plan.

Cool. Then I'll pay $400 a month for the next however many years, and he probably won't even live that long. But $150,000 in cash. You just walked out of my life.

Um >> Yeah. Yeah. He He absolutely wants his share of the house. He's already He's already >> Well, he's going to want a whole bunch of stuff, but he just left his wife.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so here's the thing. When somebody files for divorce, the day they file for divorce, it becomes a business transaction, >> right? >> That's it. And most people want to preserve the relationship. Well, there's this and I still want to be It is a business transaction.

>> And it's heartbreaking. And you have to be honest, by the way. You have to be really honest about I know that this has blown your life to smitherreens, but if you can't afford the house payment plus the taxes plus the taxes are going to keep going up in your local area. If you can't afford the house, you can't afford the house. And that's another layer of heartbreak.

>> The six the 1650 well I mean it's going to go up to 7750 u because we just have an increase in our insurance. Um but that is a doable

number for me as far as yeah being able to pay. Well, that's going to be the hope is that you can figure out a way to get to be able to pay him what he needs and then figure out how to stay in the house and maybe do a lower payment plan and over and be able to pay him off fast.

You know, we want to we want you out of that. I don't want you I don't want you in that forever. >> I know. >> Um >> I'm being ridiculous. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, but the idea is like what can you do to be able to stay in?

And that's what I would fight for, but I would not borrow from the 401k.

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Up next, we have Monica calling in from

Georgia. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. Yes, absolutely. How can we help? Today, >> I um am set to get a large inheritance

from a family trust and I was advised to

keep it separate from um my husband and

keep it in a separate account and not

spend it on anything that was um not

like in my name. >> Co-mingling it with your husband. Are you guys about to be divorced?

>> No. Okay. >> Is he cheating on you?

>> No.

Are you happily married? >> Who gave you this advice? I'm fascinated to know. >> Um, an attorney.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and and to my friends that are attorneys, the people who come into their offices are dividing up assets or they're solving these ugly problems. And so I I understand that that comes from when all you see is problems that it's easy to say like, "Hey, here's a potential problem.

I get that. Um >> but yeah, our our philosophy is yeah, is that you guys are one, you know, in every aspect. So he gets an inheritance, you get inheritance, your that means your your household >> gets this money, not just you as an individual. Um again, unless there is something happening, you know, >> abuse, addiction, whatever it is, then there is a reason.

>> Um anywhere from like 1 to three million. >> Okay. Yeah. Um, >> and the only the only debt that we have

combined is a mortgage on our home, but I'm not on the loan. So, I it was advised for me not to pay off basically his loan.

>> Again, from an attorney. Yes. Okay. So, there's so there's two schools of thinking, Monica, that happen in the financial space when it comes to marriages. Um, there's one extreme side,

which sounds like what the attorney exactly would say, right? that when you get married, you keep your assets.

Anything you build from the marriage on is yours. It's all his. Your paycheck is yours. His paycheck is his. His debt is his. Your debt is yours. Um you basically live like two you're basically um >> college roommates. >> Yeah. Your roommates are um like a business partner, right? Um that we we

are separate in this part of our life.

So that's one school of thinking.

Another school of thinking where we tend to lean or where you know I do I know John does is that your marriage is bigger than a financial transaction.

Your marriage is saying that you and I are one in every aspect of our lives and we are doing this life together. That's why we chose to get married to share a life which means we share parenting. We share household chores. We share our money.

We share our expectations about sex.

um and I say that with an asterct which I said at the beginning of this call you know if there is something a big issue in the marriage that you have to protect herself then that's one thing right again addiction abuse like whatever that may be but overall Monica we just see a

quality of marriage um people that have a very deep quality connection there is

something about that transparency that

vulnerability to say I'm giving this part of my life to you and you're giving that part of your life to me and we're doing this together so I guess at the end of the day Monica you you guys get to choose what kind of marriage you want but um but we see the benefit from not

only a financial aspect, getting ahead quicker financially, you get ahead faster when you work together, but also from a relational standpoint. >> There's some there's data on marriages about people who share their finances

and they have better outcomes on a number of different metrics.

>> Yeah. I mean, we we share everything for

the most part and I've never made a payment on our mortgage. So, I know do

you all have kids together?

Yes, we have kids and we are happily married. >> How long have y'all been married?

>> Uh, a decade, 10 years.

>> So, the court would say you you have participated in this house.

>> Yeah. No, I understand what you're getting at. My my family has like a

pretty large trust, so this would just be like one dispersement. So they were

under they were basically advising me with a family attorney to keep it separate or to have him basically sign off on some things that like it's not

his even if I pay for things that are

ours. And so what you're choosing to do if you make that call is now we I'm un I'm uncoupling our unity

here and this is going to be mine

and then we're going to go about having our regular life.

>> Yeah. And I don't even think he cares either way. That's the funny thing. I >> I promise you this will become a deal.

>> Yeah. >> I promise you because it because it's >> money flows. The value at which you live your life is how money flows. So what you're you're setting up a value system within your marriage. Monica, >> here's what it says. It says there came a dollar number. There came a dollar amount when I didn't trust you anymore.

And here was the number11 to3 million.

That was the line. And everybody always wonders like how hot would the person have to be or how bad would have he found out. It's one$1 to3 million was when you said okay you can't participate in this. I'm going to create a separate thing. And I know you're getting wisdom from other people, right? But that became the number that the unity in your marriage was worth.

>> Yeah. Well, that's not the case.

>> Exact. Exactly. So, I want to I want to provide an alternative voice than the one you're getting, which is basically I want a I want a basically a prenup now

in the middle of my marriage.

I want to add an addendum to our marriage contract that says anything I get now over here from this account, whether it's a job, whether it's a trust, whether it's I wrote a book and it becomes what that one's that stuff's going to be mine. You can't touch that.

And then we'll go back to to regularly scheduled programming. I'm telling you right now, it'll it'll alter your marriage. >> Yeah. >> And the house that y'all have that's in his name, did he own that house before y'all got married?

>> No. >> He just bought it that way. Have y'all talked about that before?

Um, no. The house is titled in both of our names. I just I'm not on the loan.

>> Oh, that I mean that doesn't matter.

>> Yeah. No, I I could pay off I could pay off the the house, >> but it's under his name is what they're saying. Well, but the title's not >> Yeah, but it's y'all's house. >> Yeah, but you're both on it.

>> Yeah. No. >> Yeah, that's y'all's house. And you you may want to say, "Hey, we just got $3 million.

>> Woohoo. >> Let's go. Let's go have a Let's go have a retreat." That's what's so hard, Monica, I think, is is um where I'm having a little bit of difficulty is instead of seeing this gift that you've got from your parents who did incredibly well and they're passing on their legacy. >> Um you know that you're not looking at your husband and you guys aren't kind of celebrating inside like, "Holy crap, we got $3 million.

No, you're about to do a prenup." I mean, you're not though. You're not saying, "Gosh, we get to be out of debt.

We get to do all this together. We get to This is our life. Our kids I mean, we get to create all this. It's not that. It's, hey, make sure you, Monica, make sure you sign this paper that he can't freaking touch it. >> Can't touch it. It's mine. >> And anything I buy with this, Monica, you just said you he can't participate in. Like, do does that not sound like really sad to you in a marriage?

>> Yeah. >> It sounds like very very cold. But that doesn't really shock me. >> Yeah. It doesn't shock you that that's the advice you're getting. No, it's just I think that um like a worst case scenario planning is kind of like the

background I come from >> where um my husband's side of the family

is very much like together. And

>> what do you want, Monica? What kind of marriage do you want?

>> No, I I want I want the one-minded one track. I just, you know, I I figured I'd talk to somebody who doesn't have any skin in the game. >> Totally. >> You're talking to two people. This is what we would do in our house.

>> And let me tell you, Dave and Sharon Ramsey, we have estate meetings plans every single year. And not once have my

parents nor have I had any feeling towards towards any of the spouses that this over here. The only time I see it that I can actually very much understand, it's not in our case, but some family businesses there's voting stock and that the voting stock stays with the family member, the blood if if there is a separation. That I understand cuz you don't want to coingle. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. within something like that.

That makes sense. And I think there's some complicated estate planning out there that >> But um but man, that kind of I don't know why that bo that really hurts me where I'm like because it's not that we're winning, it's that I'm winning over here. Put a number on our community. >> Yeah.

And so your family may not like it, Monica, but you and your husband get to choose what kind of marriage you want. And if they don't agree with that, that's up to them. That's their issue, not yours.

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>> Today's question comes from Bethany in Connecticut. Bethany writes, "I'm 46 years old with no kids and no debt. I'm an aggressive saver in CDs and money

market funds. I have $250,000 save for

retirement and a 3 to sixmonth emergency fund. I only spend money on the necessities and get by as cheaply as possible. Everyone says I'm doing a good job of saving money, but mental healthwise I have a hard time getting into the market due to anxiety and OCD.

How does someone manage mental health while also managing their market? Are there helpful strategies such as only looking at one portfolio once a quarter or once a year? Is there a way I can do it myself? I don't want to be completely hands-on, but I don't want to give up all control either.

>> It's a great question. I think a lot of people have some fear around putting money in the markets and usually that fear comes from not knowing enough

because I guarantee you Bethany I think you're smart and I think if you sat down with a financial planner and actually looked at some of the investments that

you could do whether it's mutual funds or index funds and you you're able to see the pattern of the market you're able to see a long-term track record with some of these funds. I think it will give you more peace to know, okay, my money could be making a lot more,

double what it's making now in CDs. Um, but there is a level of risk to it, sure, but also you're you're 46 years old and you probably aren't going to touch any of this until, you know, the next 15 years. >> That was the big switch for me, which was my Smart Vest Pro. I'm I'm fortunate. I will say that. I'm very lucky that was also a college roommate of mine. And so when we were going back and forth with this years ago, um he

finally said, "Hey, if you're thinking you're going to take this money out at some point in the next few years or if it starts going down, you're going to pull all this out and pay the penalties. I'm not your guy." Um and that for me

was, oh, if I if I invest money in

retirement, I'm this thing's on a 40 or 50 year ride. Me checking this every month, me honestly checking it every year, Yeah.

is a choice to be falsely optimistic or

falsely pessimistic because I'm 49 years away, 25 years away, however. So, it for me, I'm an anxious person and I'm also an anxious investor. I like the idea of like investing in real estate so I can go see it, right? I can go touch it.

I like the idea of having extra cash in the bank, right? >> Um, but when it comes to investing, I had to make the decision, this is going to be a ride I'm going to get on until I retire. >> Yes. And when I made that decision, I honestly don't look at it very much at the details.

What's what's the market because it doesn't matter. >> It doesn't matter to me right now because I'm playing a 20 or 30 year game. >> And so my Smart Investor Pro to be honest with you, >> we work together on goals. We we check in, but he'll text me and say, "Hey, you're about to get an email from our company.

Don't open it." Because he's known me forever. He's like, "You're going to freak out. You're going to act stupid or whatever." Or, "Hey, the market's up 21%. Just remember that's like it's >> it's a But he g he's a psychologist more than he's a money guy for me.

>> 100%. >> And so Bethany, that's how I handle it.

I just don't don't check I know people who check it up and down every day. I just know when I made that choice. I'm on a ride that's going to be however many year a multi-deade ride. I I'm not going to lose a ton of sleep over it in the short term.

>> 100%. Yeah. And we look at ours just once a year and kind of re-evaluate where is everything, how we feeling, you know, but it's um but that's it.

>> And Rachel uh I don't think this is an anti-Ramsey sentiment. Um I think when

you pay your house off like once you've got when you're on the other side of baby step six my wife and I like I was

like hey I feel more comfortable with more than six months cash. She's like, "Okay, but it's a we are consciously choosing together to not make to make less on that spread, right? It could be making this in the market. It's only making this in a high to have some cash available." Yeah, >> that's a that's some margin that I've bought myself that that I pay 2 or 3% a year, >> a tax on, and I call it my sleep tax.

But like I think if you get there, if you decide like, hey, I'm putting money, I'm putting 15% away for retirement. I'm doing those things. I want a little bit more money. I don't owe anybody anything. I'm fine with that.

>> Totally. >> I'm fine with that. >> Yeah. Absolutely. That's good. All right, let's go to Sarah who's in Texas.

Hey Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> I had a quick question.

Me and my fiance, we're in a bind. So,

we both have car payments and we're both upside down. So, combined, our car payments are about $1,800 a month.

>> Yeah, I know. It's stupid. I know. And >> are you driving Lamborghinis? What are you drive? I'm I'm I'm curious. No, just basic, you know, a GMC Acadia and an

F-150. And the F-150 is a 2015 and the

Acadia is a 2021. Terrible interest rates. >> Did you get these at like a sub I mean, did you I mean, did you buy them off a lot? It's like a handshake deal off a lot somewhere behind the lot.

>> No car dealership. It was just the credit was so bad. So, he had his truck before I got my car. My other car that was paid off, I loved it.

It was just down in the dirt and the engine was smoking when I pulled into the dealership. >> Okay, Sarah, what I want you to separate these out. Tell me your car.

>> Is my Oh, I owe 32 on it still.

>> Okay. >> Um, my payment is 1,100 because we got

behind, so we had to do this promise to pay thing. It was 815, but now it's bumped up to,00.

>> Okay. the 2015 F-150, he still owes

20,000 on it and his payment is right at

700. >> How much do you make a year?

>> So, combined we don't

me myself right around 55.

>> Okay. How about him?

>> Uh he's about 52 53.

>> Okay. What could you sell your car for

today? What does Bel Kelly Blue Book say? >> Uh I think it's like 17. >> Have you looked?

>> I have. >> Okay. An individual, not dealer.

>> So, not as an individual. I haven't.

>> Okay. So, I would do that. So, I would give it a couple thousand more because you can usually get more from an individual. A dealer is going to buy it as close to wholesale as possible. Um, so what did you what was the first what the number you said for the dealership?

>> Uh, 17. >> Okay. Let's just bump it up to 20 just for fun. Okay. Um, how much could he sell his for?

I think his is valued at like eight >> from a dealer. >> From an F-150. Did he wreck it?

>> No, he did not wreck it. It's just >> F150s are made of gold. >> So, both of our cars have about a 100,000 miles. His is about Still though. >> No, that's not I I I almost guarantee you a 2015 F1.

>> I'm going to Yeah. 12 to 15,000 or you think even more? >> I They're expensive.

>> I buy I like trucks and they're so like they're It's like cartoon money.

>> No. No, dude.

>> I thought that's what it said. So, it's also a two wheel drive.

>> I mean, there's going to be a bunch of nuances here and there, knick-knacks, and we have to go back and forth if it's extended cab or like a single like all that stuff. >> I could almost guarantee you I could be wrong that it's worth more than eight grand unless it's been wrecked. It was it was underwater. >> I will look into that.

>> And private party, too. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Even if there was somebody that owns a lawn crew that will roll up and give you 10 grand cash for it. like it's I I haven't seen a truck worth $8,000 in a long long long time.

>> Okay. >> So, yeah, we'll be a little bit more. And you're in Texas, you know, they like they like >> they give you a truck with your birth certificate. Yeah.

>> I haven't dug too much into >> Okay. So, Sarah golly. Okay. So,

um man. Okay. So, for you and I'm going to talk I'm going to I'm going to separate the two because you guys aren't married yet. Once you're married, we combine it all together and I'm right off into the winds.

But for you specifically, yes, getting rid of this car is huge because it's more than half of your annual take-home pay. You know what I mean? Or half of what you make. Um, and so you are we have way way too much car, which I know this that's why you're calling because you're you're feeling it.

Um, >> yeah. Well, we both are. So, all of our finances are combined. We have four kids together.

>> Okay.

>> Hang on the line. We're going to hold you over cuz I want to unpack this one.

>> Yeah. and we'll we'll walk through some of this math with >> we're going to go to a break, but we'll be right back.

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All right, welcome back. We have Sarah on the line from the last segment. She was calling in because their car payments and car loans, they are feeling it. So, she owes 32,000 on hers with

$1,100 going out um every month in a

payment and her husband owes 20,000 or

I'm sorry, her fiance owes 20,000 on his. Um, he makes 52, she makes 55. And

just kind of trying to figure out the math here to get them out of these payments. Does that sound right, Sarah? So far, >> yes. >> Okay. Um, and are both of your credits

shot because you mentioned that.

>> Y Okay, >> they are. Yeah. So, we have completely stopped paying on the credit cards because even the minimums is like, okay, well, we're not going to pay our rent. So, we rent right now for 2,000, then daycare 700. It's everywhere.

>> Okay. Um,

your rent is 2,000. How much do you guys I mean, you're running your household as if you're married. So, I'm going to ask this. How much do you How much hits They >> pretty much do. >> How much How much hits your checking account every month after taxes, after

insurance, everything?

>> I would say right about 8,000.

>> 8,000 for both of you?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that's Yeah. Then the um the $2,000 rent that's in line with

it for being about a fourth of your take-home pay because that's what we're wanting um shooting for. So that's not completely out of control, but then again, you add in these car payments and everything else on top of it, it's a lot. So um have you guys have you guys

gone down to maybe a local credit union or a local bank and talk through a loan

process? Because the ideal situation, again, your credit's shot, so it may not work. Um, >> they will not refinance. >> But no, no, not a refinance.

Just to get a get a personal loan. And I would get a $25,000 loan for you and >> pay off the difference. >> Pay off the difference of 20. Go get a $5,000 crappy car for just the time being.

>> Um, and your husband, you know, do the same.

to get the difference if he can sell it.

>> It's not a refi. It's just we're paying this thing off. We're done with >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a But I would rather have a $20,000 loan than a $32,000,

right? So, we're just kind of moving it but lowering it at the same time, which means you're getting rid of these cars and driving crappy cars. Do you guys have any You don't have anything in savings?

>> No, nothing. So, we just started y'all's financial piece last week through our church. >> Oh, good. >> Okay. >> So, all the steps are hitting us and we're like, "Oo, >> yeah. Well, >> yeah. >> The thing I think you have to metabolize here is this is you've got these car payments. Y'all have done things that aren't wise with money. We all have.

>> Y'all have to metabolize to truly get out of this mess. It's going to be 36 months of not a lot of fun. >> Yeah. >> And if you're willing to do that, you can get out of this.

And that might mean you're taking a second job. He's taking a second job. And you're like, I don't have time to that. And I would tell you, you don't have time not to cuz I can hear you drowning.

And you're going to find yourself, this car is going to fail you before you pay it off. And you have to roll that >> guy has been in the shop.

Already. >> You have to roll the negative equity and you're going to end up owing $50,000 on a on a 79 used like whatever Volvo.

Right. So it's like at some point you and him have to say, "We're drawing a line here. We're not going to go out to eat. We're going to take second jobs.

We're going to maybe move apartments.

That's $1,500 instead of 2,000. We're going to do that for three years or two years so we can get out of this once and for all." And if you don't have that level of burn it to the ground and and

grow something beautiful out of the ashes, if you don't have that, you're just going to keep playing the shell game. >> Yep, that's right. Yeah, there has to be an extreme change. I mean, it's almost a 180 at the way you guys have been thinking about money, doing money.

I mean, all of it. It's It's got to be a complete different shift. And you guys are in uh Financial Beast University, which I'm so thankful for. But we're also, if you hold in the line, Kelly's going to pick up and we're going to give you our allnew Every Dollar.

we're excited about this because within the app, you're not only able to budget

and create a monthly budget, which will be so great for you, Sarah, and um to sit down for you guys to look and be like, "Hey, we we are literally this is our plan for what we're spending on groceries, lights, rent, gas for the

car, and that's it. Daycare, and insurance, and like we're paying for nothing else. We're not Amazoning. We're not going to Target.

We're not going on vacation. We're not >> decorating anything. Oh, that looks nice. Doesn't matter.

>> We're not doing anything." But we're literally putting every single penny we can find towards this debt. And when you start to have that motivation, it's incredible.

And people are finding thousands of dollars of margin in just 15 minutes.

So, for all of you listening, we have a premiere coming about the allnew Every Dollar on September 25th where you get

to see real success stories and how you can be the next one and how you can plug into this and start your money journey.

So, if you want to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops, make sure to do that.

And again, that is going to be September 25th is where the allnew Every Dollar premiere uh is here for you guys and we're really really excited about it. So Sarah again, Kelly's going to pick up and we will hook you up for a year's worth of um that every dollar subscription to get you guys in and moving. So we are cheering y'all on. All right, next we have Crystal in Oregon.

Hi Crystal, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me. I'm honored. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um I am a single mother of one. Um and I

own a home. I have an LLC in cleaning

houses and then I coach high school basketball on the side, but I have a credit card that's just eating me alive.

>> Okay. Wow. Good for you, Crystal.

>> Yeah, good for you. That's awesome. >> Way to take on the world. >> I was a basketball coach for a few years. It's one of my favorite jobs I've ever ever had. It's way more fun than being a YouTuber. It was awesome.

>> Yeah, it's very rewarding.

>> Okay, so tell me about this credit card.

What's going on? >> Um, I think I had a few uh years that were really difficult. So, I feel like a lot of it is food to feed my daughter and I and things like that. Um, I say I haven't used it in about a year, >> but it doesn't go down.

>> Okay. How much do you owe on it?

>> I owe about a little over 9,000.

>> 9,000. Okay. How much do you make a year? >> Um, I make about 58.

>> 58. Okay. Good for you. That's great.

And what's the what's the payment each month? >> Uh, the payment right now is like 330.

>> Okay, perfect. But then the interest on it is like I think it's like $200. It's like I'm only paying off $100 of it here and there. >> Yeah. Extra. Okay. Um after you pay all

of your bills, Crystal, like from um your you said you have a house, so your mortgage, lights, everything, do you have any margin left over?

>> Um I have a after like all the bills

with my house and everything, I have $1,000 left for food and gas.

>> For food and gas. Okay, perfect. that.

>> Okay. Um, so yeah, I mean a couple of

things, Crystal. I mean, you can, you know, that $1,000. I mean, there's um

for food. I mean, food's expensive. It's hard, but >> if I'm just thinking through if you can find $1,000 a month, you can get this paid off in nine months, right? Meaning, >> um I don't know if there's extra work you pick up a little bit on the side.

um cutting expenses where you where you're like, "Listen, we're having peanut butter and jelly and spaghetti every day." Like that's what we're doing for the next 5 months. Like we're cutting the grocery budget. Like we're cutting where we can. We're adding extra because I'm honestly sitting on this side >> um >> of the phone call.

I was expecting I was holding my breath when you said I was thinking 22 to 30,000 on the credit card. That's what I was thinking. So when you said nine, I was like, "Okay, Crystal can do this. Crystal can do this." It may.

And here's the thing. Here's what I hate about this. It may be that you have to go and say, "I can't do my side hustle of coaching this year because it only pays 2500 bucks for the season.

make 6,000 bucks." >> Yeah. The basketball the basketball paid. My daughter goes to a private Christian school, so I took on the basketball gig to help pay for my portion of sending her to that school.

>> Okay. There there you go. So, but here's the thing. is going to be every decision you make is going to be a trade-off. >> Yep. >> And do I want to keep this thing around for two years and pay $400 a month on it? Um or do I want to just grit my

teeth, make some really deep cuts, and be done with this thing in seven months and then get on with my life?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I think my biggest question was is that I do have a PERS account from a previous job that's at about 7,300 right now. Is that something I should consider cashing in to help pay this off? A what account? >> A pers.

>> Okay. I don't know if I know what that is. That's probably something George would know. I don't know what that is. >> As long as there's not fees attached to it or you get penalized or something. I don't know. Something weird. But yeah, >> if you're able to get that but and hey, stay on the line, Crystal. Um, Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to give you an Aldi gift card. Aldi is an incredible place to shop for your groceries cuz there it's so inexpensive.

It's amazing and the quality is great. And they gave us some gift cards. So, Crystal, stay on the line. We're going to give you an Aldi gift card to help at least for this month. >> Get you launched out of here. Absolutely.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am

Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and

we're going to go to Gail in Pennsylvania. Hi Gail, welcome to the show. >> Hi, good afternoon. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Uh my husband and I uh we are 55 and we

are about to

uh be selling our home and we are purchasing a home together with my

parents. We'll all be living together in the home and uh we have a great

relationship and want to enjoy some

years together and then as they need help as time goes by we'll already be there and that that is simple for all of

us. So, my dad is a disabled veteran and

with that uh has an exemption from

property taxes, which is about $10,000 a

year. So, if my husband and I are on the

deed for the house, then we do not have

that exemption and we would pay those taxes. Um, or we can not be on the deed

and save that uh tax amount each year.

And I know the uh I've heard Dave talk many times about you you if you're not on the deed, it doesn't count. And and I get that. Uh but I was wondering if you

would have anything other to say in this

case. I would

I the way you're setting it up, I would probably um have get a this would be overly

formal. I would probably get a lease, a renters's lease and say I'm renting a room from the owner of this home.

>> Okay? >> And at some when and if your father decides that I'm going to deed this house over to y'all, that might be the cleanest way to do that. And if you've got sibling, just prepare for that to be a nightmare when you'll untangle all that. >> Well, I'm I'm an only child, so that >> you wouldn't even have to worry about that. >> That would probably be the way I would do that.

>> So, what what does the what does a rental lease do for us?

>> It allows you to it I mean it you could

just move into his house, right?

>> That's essentially what it's going to be, Gail, from like a legal standpoint.

you're going to be aware. Yeah. So, basically your parents are buying a house and you and your husband are just moving in with them is what that is. And then if you end up paying part of the mortgage, you are paying >> into a asset that you don't own legally.

Um, and so what John's saying is some some type of um >> I mean I'm assuming you guys are going to help with the mortgage, right? Or are they just going to buy a house and you got and you guys are just living there and then you get to live there for free because you're taking care of them. Is that the is >> Well, so there there won't be a mortgage for it when when we sell our home. Um

we're going we'll contribute 150,000

toward it, but there's no mortgage.

There's no there's no ongoing payment other than utilities and upkeep and all, >> but $150,000 of your money though is going to be in

this asset that doesn't have your name on it. And so I I don't know the tax implications, but legally you're giving your parents $150,000 gift for them to purchase a home.

>> Okay? >> Because it it y'all are going to feel like it's all working together. But if you want to do this so you don't have to pay property taxes and you're all going to buy one house together, then legally,

yeah, you're giving them $150,000 gift.

They're going to buy a home and they're going to let you live in there rent free or they're going to charge you rent for it. And and here's here's I would say the reason I would I would recommend a lease is two reasons. One, if um can I

can I just give you some worst case scenarios just because this is what we deal with. >> Yeah. >> Um mom passes away and dad has dementia

>> and he says, "Get out of my house. I don't want y'all here." >> Or I'm trying to think of worst case scenarios. he rear end in somebody and they sue him and they want to take this like I I want there to be a >> there's no protection for you all. >> There's no protection at all when you just give $150,000 this way. I would prefer you to have $150,000 in a high yield savings account and y'all pay rent towards this thing every month.

>> But I do get the idea that y'all don't want a mortgage. But it it's illegally y'all are giving them a gift and I don't know what the tax implications if they're going to have to pay taxes on that gift. I don't know how that's going to work. >> And I would I would meet with probably an estate attorney, Gail, just to get a wording within a will um that when they

pass or when one of them passes, you know what that looks like. It's just a domino effect that we see, right?

>> Um we've already done that part with the estate attorney and have >> have those pieces. >> That's great. So that's with the death aspect, but then I mean as John's saying like things can happen when they're alive. Um you know that that could affect the h that something happens to them a situation legally um medically I

don't know what it is and they need to >> passes away mom suddenly gets remarried four months later and all like and the only reason we say those things is because those are the calls we get.

>> And I know and you're it's easy to be like that won't never happen and it usually doesn't happen. That's just the that's the calls we get all the time.

>> Sure. We have we have addressed a lot of those with the estate attorney.

>> Okay. >> Um >> yeah. >> So at the end of the day, if your name's not on the deed scenario, >> yeah, if your name's not on the deed, it's not your house.

>> And so I I would feel comfortable living

with my parents under this arrangement, but I want to sign a lease agreement that says I'm renting this this room for $100 or this part of the house or whatever for $100 a month or $100 a year. I don't care what the number is.

Um, and also I don't ever want somebody to come back and say, "Hey, we think y'all are committing tax fraud or you're taking advantage of X, Y, or Z." Right.

>> A system. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, again, from a legal standpoint, your parents would be able to do whatever they want with this house because their name is on it that you have no ownership in this. And so, if that's the and and I don't know why this

this may be wrong. I don't know. It there's a little bit of more peace because you all are older. I don't know why. It just feels like there's probably less complications >> than if it was a 25-year-old couple moving into their 50-y old parents house. >> 100%. Yeah. So, for some reason, the the age gives me a little bit more peace of the stage of life you guys are in.

>> Um because we do get calls with young couples that want to entangle themselves with parents and all of them. I'm like, you have a whole life ahead of you that's about to get really messy really fast. >> Um >> and let me say one more thing, and this is not directed at you, Gail. This is just in general. Um, the more you try to

game a system and go around things and undercut things to avoid paying this or I want to not pay that, so I'm going to do this.

>> I just want to ask what's at the end of the day, I'm going to ask myself, what's my integrity worth? And if I know this is actually my house, but I want to take advantage of your thing. >> So, I'm going to put someone else's name on it. >> Put someone else's name on it, but it's actually mine.

I'm going to say my integrity is not worth $10,000. It's not worth,000 bucks a month. Do I want to write that check in property tax every year? God, no.

But my integrity is not for sale. And so I that's just something to think through. I don't think that's you in the situation, Gail, but if I know actually this is my house, but I don't take advantage of a a government benefit because of your military service.

>> Part of me kind of feels kind of gross about it. >> Yeah. Well, that's fair. Yeah. People hiding information in order to get a better deal. >> Part of that kind of feels gross to me. I think there's a a VA benefit that's amazing and wonderful and as a taxpayer I'm glad we have that. Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. And I wouldn't do this arrangement right now, Gail, because of that specifically, right? That maybe when they get when they when they do need your help in 10 years, maybe you guys make some arrangement then.

>> Um but yeah, no, that's a great point, John.

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YouTube. All right, let's go to the phones. We have Abby in Oregon up next.

Hi Abby, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

Um, so I've have a complex situation with my mother. Um, I'm an only child and she has struggled financially um,

most of my adult life. Um, she's now

almost 70 and she doesn't have any

retirement. Um, she's currently unemployed. Um, she hasn't yet started

taking social security because she's waiting for the full amount at 70, which is in February.

Um, and she's been inconsistently employed for years and years. Um, so I don't think Social Security is going to be a lot anyway. Um, and so now I'm facing two issues. One is short-term she's come

to me for the first time saying she's totally out of money um, and is trying

to figure out how to pay her bills this month. and then longterm how to set boundaries for >> the fact that she's just not going to have much income uh for the next you know 20 some odd years of her life. Um,

and I I don't know how to support her

while, you know, having healthy boundaries, I guess, and and it's she's also has some mental health issues involved um with OCD and hoarding and stuff. So, she's there's lots of complexity to this, but >> um >> and Abby, you're you're an only child, you said. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Oh, man. >> Um does she live near you from like a distance? >> Yep. >> About an hour away. >> About an hour away. Okay. And how are you financially? Where are you at?

>> I'm stable. Um my husband and I just moved um to kind of a simpler home and

downsized a bit so we could pay off debt. Um and I've got a little bit of debt left I'm trying to pay off, but um I make a pretty good income and now that we have lower monthly expenses for everything else, I should have that paid off in about a year and a half to two years. >> Okay. So, how much how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um combined we're about 150.

>> 150. Okay. And what's the debt left on?

>> Um I have um a truck that and a camper

trailer that I do travel nursing. So >> Okay. Okay. And so that'll be paid off the next year and then you guys will be debtree.

>> Correct. And then just the house is left. And the house we only owe in Oregon it's really I mean houses in Oregon are pretty expensive. So um we only owe about uh 94,000 on this new house.

>> Oh, good. Okay. Well, that's Yeah, that's really encouraging. Okay.

So Abby, like this this is I appreciate you having the courage to call. Um there are millions and millions and millions of adult kids who are facing this same dilemma. >> Yeah.

part of this conversation, how do I get healthy boundaries? What do I do about this call? I think you and your husband

need to sit down and be honest about

how are we going to care or not care for my aging mother.

>> Yeah, >> that's a harsh way to say many conversations this last month. >> Okay. I but I think it's because if if you know deep down I'm not going to let my mom go into a um under a bridge and

into a shelter. >> Right. Right. and I'm going to move her into this back bedroom here. Um, then that frames what boundaries look like.

What if, hey, mom, we're going to give you this much money, but you're going to live now. You're going to live by my rules, right? Like the reverse of how you grew up. >> Um, then you can have a different conversation. If your boundaries are you made your choices, mom, I don't care about you, whatever.

>> Um, >> I wouldn't wish that, but that you're like, it's your life, right? I want you to be honest about your stance on >> where's your line's going to be.

Otherwise, you end up choosing resentment over guilt.

>> And she doesn't deserve that. Y'all don't deserve that. It's just a way to set your house on fire from the inside out. >> And so coming up with this is the boundaries going to be.

Then you can begin to say, "Okay, mom, I'm going to pay this bill or you know what? You're letting your lease go. You're going to move in with us now. Or I'll give you this much money or I'll pay the bill directly.

We're going to pay $200 a month. We're just going to make this a regular thing.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I'm I think I'm trying to find kind of a middle ground. Um which is always easier said than done, but um >> I don't know if there is one here. Do you think there is one?

>> So, she she owns her home. Um just

recently paid it off. Um >> but she doesn't have the money for property taxes that's coming up. um which be around 4,000ish somewhere in there. Um >> she um she just switched her home

owner's insurance to monthly so she could pay that slower which was good. Um but her house is practically condemnable. She hasn't had flowing water for years. Um it's you can't move

around in the space. It's not a safe space. But I have tried over and over again to get her to leave and she won't.

um she has this grandio savia in her mind of >> what she wants her home to look like someday. And >> so um you know unfortunately that's her

only asset. You know if she could even as it is she could still get you know in Oregon she could get $250,000 for that house. >> And so that could be a source of income if you invested it.

>> Um but I can't convince her to do that.

And there's even like really great um we don't have section 8 here. We have like a voucher program where >> people get a voucher and then can live wherever they want to rent. Um, >> but she doesn't want to rent. She wants to own. >> Um, but 250,000 won't buy you another house here. Very very >> But you have you have to exhale and know

my mom's not well.

>> Yeah. >> And so I I trying to address a situation

an irrational situation. I don't mean that like in an erratic bananas, right?

Like somebody who is not critically thinking well, whose cognitive processing isn't well, trying to solve that problem with data and facts isn't the solution. >> Yeah, that's what I'm running into. The solution is what do I care about you

>> and here's if you want this money, here's what that's going to look like.

>> Okay. >> Cuz she's going to she's going to get a mathematical uh reality forced on her one way or the other. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. They're going to come take her house cuz she's going to get behind on on property taxes or her neighbors are going to call for all the stuff in the front yard and they're going to take her home or um she's going to get your

support and begin to make some changes

>> and I'm afraid it's going to happen cuz Yeah. I mean I'm with you Abby. I'm like oh my gosh because I'm asking you John. Yeah.

If Abby, if you can't reason with her logically, like you're saying, is there just a natural unfolding of real consequences of the real world? You don't pay your property tax, mom. So, they're going to take it and like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, >> that's why that's why I started the call with Abby, y'all, you and your husband have to decide, not if, but when it comes to it.

>> Because that's going to be our option, >> right? If she loses everything, >> right? And and you can sit down and maybe she'll hear that. I doubt it.

hoarding, especially in elderly populations, is a that means she's in a really tough spot, right? She's been struggling for a while. >> And so, >> sitting down and having a heartto-heart isn't going to get us there, >> right? >> If she could get on some medication, if she would get some support and all that, but you may have I'm I'm confident y'all have been down that road for years and there's to no avail, right?

>> Yeah. I'm still trying, but Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Would she respond to the words, "Mom, they're going to come take your house." >> Yeah, I've tried that. >> Okay. Okay. that they're going to condemn your house and they're going to take it away cuz >> just the fact that she hasn't had water running for a couple years is a huge red flag for the city.

>> Absolutely. >> Um so I mean they could easily come condemn it tomorrow and then she'd lose everything. And I've been trying to tell her that but it doesn't it's not getting through.

because she won't do any of the things that make sense. And so >> I'm stuck trying to do it her way. But then do I just put money into a sinking ship that isn't like >> like if I just pay her bills for >> it's not even good for her to stay there. >> It's unhealthy and unsafe.

>> You know what I mean? So there's a part of you that's like it's kind of like a like a blessing in disguise if something happens to the home and then you know Abby could and her husband could be there at that point >> assuming that she would even move in with you guys, right?

But yeah, I I'm going to suggest to as

best you can, this is hard because it's your mom, right? Nobody wants this. But traffic in reality, what is what is true and what is real, not what is what we want to happen.

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Thank you so much for listening and watching the show. Um, we so appreciate it. One of the best ways to spread the word is to share the show uh with your friends, with your family, on your social media platforms, all the things.

because as we get the word out about the show, more and more people hear about it, listen to it, and hopefully get control of their money, which we love.

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All right, next up we have Jesse in Wisconsin. Hi, Jesse. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for taking my call. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Okay. Um, so recently within the last couple months, I had um my grandfather passed away and um sorry, thank you. Um,

it's just me and my dad um at next to Ken. Um, he had gifted us with um in his

assets with money cashwise is like 850 I

think. And then he also owns 80 acres of

land up in uh up in Wisconsin. Um my

question is is all the assets and all

the money is is going to be put into my name. Um >> not >> my dad because of my dad has kind of lived like a kind of like a rough life if you could say. >> Okay. >> So without money coming back and getting taken for taxes back whatever it's all going to go into my name.

But my question is is is it best for me cuz this is my dad's going to live off this money for the rest of his life. It's just just the way that's going to be. It's best that's for me to put >> Bro, can I just stop real quick?

>> Yes. >> This is one of those ideas that looks good on paper and man, you are now basically your dad's dad.

>> Dude, it's been like that pretty much forever. But I understand what you're saying. >> I hate you're in that position, man. I hate that for you, brother.

>> Yeah. Um, I guess the what you're saying is the my thing was to put it in my name and then do I reinvest the whole his whole half because we can make more money off of it that way or you know do I kind of take so much out pay a pen because I'm going to pay a penalty on it pay a penalty on it and put it into CDs or some kind of quick money. Do you understand? >> Not really. What do you mean you're going to get a penalty on it?

>> Well, so the there is a Roth in the in some of the accounts. I I guess I don't know. Do I reinvest all of it or should do I take some out and kind of get rid of the problem like what you just said.

You know what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. I mean I would I would keep it within if you can shelter it tax-wise with the Roth all of that that would be ideal. Um how what is the the 850,000?

What is it divided up in? What what is it all sitting in right now?

Um, well, he has a financial guy here locally where I'm from and it's and I I

think half of it, most of it was in a Roth and then he has it into some more aggressive um stuff, too. I'm actually going to meet up with him tomorrow to kind of like finalize all the paperwork.

>> Okay. >> Um, but that was like my question. Do I,

you know, keep reinvesting it and just throw it all back in there or I mean, is it better for me to take some out?

>> Well, I mean, some of it you can use for your life to get you ahead financially.

um things like a home if you have debt.

So, where are you, Jesse, financially?

>> Um I um I own um a house. I own two

houses. I don't really have any debt. I've kind of paid everything off. I don't have any debt. And I >> even on the homes, no mortgages.

>> I I have I have one mortgage on my house um um down in another town and I own my

other house up in um another town locally. >> Okay. Where are you living? Are you in one of those houses? Are you living in one of those houses?

Yes, I'm living in one and then um the other one I bought I'm kind of refixing up. My grandmother passed away about three years ago and she get she left me her house. So I'm living in that house right now with no I mean I just pay taxes. >> Okay. Okay. Um so how much do you have left on the other mortgage?

>> Uh like 83,000.

>> Okay. And the home that you're fixing up, are you planning on selling that or Yes, you are. Okay. How much how much would it go for?

>> About 150. Okay, that's great. Um, and

how much how much >> Where does your dad live?

>> Um, where wherever.

I mean, I sometimes he's with a different girlfriend right now, you know. >> So, what what expectations, financial expectations, is this money going to have to supply for him.

>> I'm trying to make it I'm I'm trying to be the smarter one, trying to make this the make it the most of it. You know what I'm saying? >> I I know, but here here's the problem.

You're using big I'm going to make the most. I want to do the best. still want to try to get the growth. You have an actual true math problem in front of you.

And the more specific you can be about that that math problem, which is your dad, >> the better off you can plan for this thing. Here's what I mean. If you decide in your head, I'm going to put 425 for my dad and I'm going to keep 425. That's what me and granddad shook hands on.

And your dad goes into acute liver failure and it's going to cost you $3 million to get a liver transplant or whatever, you're going to have a hard choice to make, right? And >> so, or he blows through it all in two years, >> right? And he has nowhere to go. Are you going to let him live on the street or is he going to move into your back bedroom?

root level conversation and then saying here's the dollar amount, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um that I mean I guess

Yeah. But with that 425, let's say um is

it worth keeping it in there? He's 60 61 years old. >> Does he need your money? Is he asking you for it? >> Well, he's going to I mean, dude, he's going to need it, you know. working right now, Jesse? Does he work?

>> No. No, >> he doesn't. >> No. >> How's he paying bills right now?

>> Um I I mean I think he does like little like uh side jobs or something like that, you know. >> Okay. >> But no, there's no like full-time.

>> I mean, honestly. Okay. So, you're So, you there was a handshake with your granddad that said, "This money is going to go in your name, Jesse, because you're responsible, but this part of this money or half of this money is supposed to go to your dad to make sure that he's doesn't live on the streets, right? That this is his 50/50 on the will, but me and my old man had made this agreement where we're just going to put it into mine.

>> Okay, then you if it's in the will, brother, keep it separate. Keep it separate. >> I know there's a part of me, Jesse, I I don't like the idea of you feeling you having to be the caretaker of your dad.

>> There's a part of me, tell me, John, I don't know if this is right, but I mean, my knee-jerk is to say, Jesse, split it h split it down the middle. Your dad takes his portion. He gets to decide what to do with it, but you're not the bank anymore. Once the money's gone, Dad, it's gone. So you can either choose to invest it, live on it wisely for the rest of your life or if you squander it

away like I you can't come to me for money like I we're this is it. This is the like right I would just like keep it short and simple and clean instead of

you holding all of it and trying to pay your dad dividends and when he needs it he comes to you and you're kind of like the bank. Like that feels off to me. I almost would go I would almost go 50/50 and let your dad >> it's one or the other. It's 50/50 or you understand I'm going to be his full-time caretaker.

>> But you're you're trying to do both, >> right?

it should be okay. But I need to have that conversation first to make sure I don't want to be involved, you know.

>> Absolutely. 100%. >> Yeah. 100%. And you can even say, "Hey, Dad, I'm going to meet with a financial planner. Why don't you come to the meeting too and see what they have to say? And you take your half. You get to make a decision on what you want to do.

I'm going to make a decision with mine.

And maybe it's the same decision. Maybe you both decide we're going to invest it. But I would keep it still separate in the investments because if he starts messing with it and you know what I mean, pulling money out.

>> Um >> Yeah. I I don't I don't like the idea of a 61-y old man coming to his 40-year-old son saying, "Hey, I want to buy a car." >> Yeah. I That's the thing, too. If I'm going to take that money out, I'll just take out some money at the get-go, get in a car, you know, house and stuff, and then reinvest whatever else.

>> But you don't need to do that, Jesse. He needs to do that with his house. >> Yeah, no kidding. I got a lot of stories about that. >> I know. Here's the deal. You don't want to be his caretaker, but you are living in the reality that you kind of have to be his caretaker.

>> Right on. >> Okay. And so you have to decide, I'm either going to go all in on this role

or I'm going to sit down, have a hard conversation with my dad, and say, "Dad, there's $425,000 in account. I'm not managing it for you. And when it's gone, it's gone. Don't come to me for it." >> Right. Um, and I might talk to that financial guy, too, and like I said, let me Heaven be there, and we're going to just, you know, otherwise, like you said, it's going to be just a mess.

>> It already is a mess. to put you. You've been put in an incredibly awkward situation and I hate this for you, but I also want to applaud you, brother, for being trying to be a good man to your to your dad. >> Yeah, for sure.

For sure. So, Jesse, if I if I were in your shoes and I had half of this money, I would pay off whatever debt I have, including the mortgages, um I would take some cash out, if you don't have cash, just as an emergency fund and stick it in a high yield savings account. And then, yes, I would leave the rest in investments. And that could be index funds, mutual funds.

Don't do anything crazy, Jesse.

Don't go and like do some scheme thing over here. Like keep it simple. Mutual funds, index funds, let it grow at 10%, your money will double every 7 years if you leave it alone. So just do that quick math and just know where it can grow to.

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Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19:2.

Desire without knowledge is not good.

And whoever makes haste with his feet misses his way. As a rock star, I have

two instincts. I want to have fun and I

want to change the world. I have a chance to do both. Bono, that's pretty

good. I feel like he does that. >> What band was he in? I'm just kidding.

Totally kidding. I was going to put you I was going to put you on the spot there. >> I'm not good with music. But it is you too, right? >> No, it's Coldplay. I'm totally kidding at you. >> Okay. I was like, "Oh, man." That's a very classic. >> I was I'm I'm terrible. I can name the

Backstreet Boys, but that's about as far as uh >> Yeah, kind of the same. Kind of the same. James Charles just passed out in the in the >> I'm really proud of you, Rachel. >> I'm sorry, James. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. And he does a lot of great stuff. I feel like he is definitely a philanthropist at heart >> and financially and and in action.

>> Thank you. And in action. Yeah. With his money. He is. It's great. the old the

old Bono. >> Oh man. All right, let's go to Darren in

Oklahoma. Hi Darren. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Huge fan of the show. >> Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm 50, my wife is 46. Um, happy

to say we are completely debtree.

>> Good for you all.

>> On a personal side. Um, so all of our

personal finances, our home, all of our cars, um, no credit card debt, it's all paid off. Um, now we also we have an LLC

and we own 15 single family homes.

Um, nine of those single family homes still have um small mortgages on them.

And when I say small, most of them are less than $10,000.

>> Okay? Um, some are, you know, around the

20 to $30,000 range, but all total

equity wise in those rentals is about $1.5 million.

>> Okay. >> My CPA is telling me this as these mortgages are getting close to being paid off. My CPA is saying, "Look, you know, you've enjoyed this cash flow for, you know, for all these years." And because you

have these mortgages coupled with the

expenses that you have with the rentals, with insurance and things like that, taxes, you know, you've enjoyed a luxury of not having to very have a very high tax burden. As these mortgages start

getting paid off, your tax burden is going to increase. So his advice to me

is as these mortgages get down to $4 and

$5,000, go borrow $10,000 against that house to

keep that mortgage going. Stick that $10,000 in your checking account or do

whatever you want with it because that money is not taxable. Therefore, your tax burden over the next few years is going to continue to stay low because

you have these mortgages to help offset that income. Now, I've kind of on a

personal side, I've kind of lived by Dave's principles for the last 20 years

of, hey, you know, all this debt needs to go away. Uh, and that's what we've done on a personal level, but from a business standpoint, what my CPA is telling me makes sense. Um, however,

because of how I've conditioned myself for the last 20 years to be, you know, completely debtree, it's it's hard for me to do that. So, you know, what are what are your thoughts on that?

>> If Dave was sitting here, I think he'd say, "Fire your CPA." >> You know, I kind of figured that might be his response. >> Yeah. And when he's talking about saving on the taxes, is it because you're not able to write them off? What does he mean by that? Or the income coming in, it changes your tax bracket? What's he saying? it. That's it. Because um without those mortgages to take off of

that taxable income, uh it's going to

change my tax.

>> Yeah, >> that's correct. So, he says, you know, borrow this money and reinvest back into the houses if you want to because that money is not taxable. Um and whereas if

the mortgage was completely paid off and every dime of that is going into your pocket every month, then your tax bracket making more money on it. Sure.

Right. >> Correct. >> But also, you know, the way the taxes are staggered and again, your CPA knows the numbers. I understand this, >> but it's not going to be the full I mean, the full amount like it's you once you hit that bracket, yes, the things the income above that bracket will be taxed at that new tax level. Um, but to avoid the taxes by taking on more debt

is what we would say that you're continuing to take on risk and you're continuing to live in a system at which people own you. I mean, you don't own it free and clear at that point. And so, taking the hit on the income to pay taxes to be free.

I mean, I take that all day versus freaking trying to play this game where I'm borrowing on this and borrowing on that. >> I've been I've been hearing about this for months now. So, take one of your houses. I want to play this out mathematically. Take one of the houses that you own. >> Okay? Is is it is it $100,000 house, $200,000 houses?

Um they range from about 100 to 200.

Yes. >> Okay. So you're you're doing mostly low-income housing, right? You got 15 of them. >> Well, in this area, that's considered a fairly nice home. Northeast Oklahoma, you know, $200,000.

>> I mean, I've got a 3,000 ft home on the golf course that's paid for free and clear that I paid 310 for. So, and it's like Okay. >> Really nice. >> Okay. So, 310. What do you rent that house for?

Oh, the 310 is my house. The the 200

$200,000 uh I've got a $200,000 rental. I rent it for $1,500 a month.

>> 1,500 bucks a month. Okay. So,

>> that one has no mortgage.

>> No mortgage. All right. So, what do you pay annually on taxes on that house?

>> Um about $1,000.

>> Okay. So, >> my total tax burden on all 15 homes is

about six grand.

the complete tax burden.

>> That's correct. Taxes in Oklahoma are dirt cheap. >> Okay. So, if you had 15 houses and you

went and borrowed $10,000 on them

and you put that money in a checking account, what is 15 time 10?

>> 150k.

>> What is 150k time 6%. Which is the minimum you'd

get a loan for? Mhm. Point. Yeah.

>> $9,000.

>> You need to fire your CPA, dude.

>> Cuz his little trick just cost you three grand.

>> What you're paying in interest to the bank. >> You see what I'm saying? You're going to pay the interest of what you're Yeah.

>> Then you're you're paying more in interest to the bank taxes. If you were in California and your taxes were 700%,

right? And I'm being ridiculous, right? Or in Texas, the the property taxes are astronomical in Texas.

right? >> Then you might be able to prop this game up. And I'd still make I think I still think there's a mathematical case where I'm right. But in just your situation,

you're paying six grand total on all the all the property taxes against these places. Are you talking Are you talking about earned income tax? It's the income tax. >> All right. There you go.

>> So my math >> problems. Yeah. Yeah. But still, unlike, you know, from the tax bracket, which I don't have in my head right now, you know, you're offsetting the 6%. To your point though, the interest you're paying versus if you're going to bump up a few percentage points, pay extra.

>> So, I mean, like when you don't when you actually rent it out, well, what is it?

What's the difference? You know, because you're paying something to loan this to get to take money out of this home to loan to loan it, right? And so, >> well, sure, fees and interest and, you know, and all of the above.

>> Yeah. And so, at the end of the day, what are you really saving because, you know, while these houses are great, you you know, they're not, you know, $800,000 homes that you're renting out, right, that you're going to be take, you know. Correct. >> So, here's the thing. I I hear I hear this I hear this all the time. I hear um

and I'm just going to get an egregious name, right? Elon Musk doesn't have doesn't make a salary. He owns this much

like hundreds of millions of dollars of stock and he goes to a bank and he takes a loan out against that stock and then he gets that loan and he gets to spend that interest free.

Okay. And I'm hearing I'm going to move this over here. You're playing you got 15 houses. It's not a small you you got a good business going. >> Yeah. >> I'm telling you at least off the front off top of my head and I can't do the math. I did the math on the property taxes, not on the earned income tax. And you're correct. But I'm not playing that game for one reason. I don't want to keep up with it.

>> I want to own my houses. I don't mind paying the taxes. I'm not going to play a game where I loan this bank money and you borrow money for me and I'm going to give it to you. I'm going to dude pay the taxes that I earn. That's >> all right. Thank you guys so much. John, great hour of the show. Thank you, America, for listening. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 38. Don't Allow Your Relationships To Become Transactional | November 6, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Anna is going to kick us off in San Jose. Anna, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> Um, I'm calling in today to see if it's worth it to buy a house. Um, a little background of me. I'm 20 years old. I'm doing a PhD in biomedical engineering. I have a degree in biomedical engineering as well and I plan to go to medical school. Um, my parents want me to buy us

a house cuz I have the money financially.

I'm just wondering to see what do you guys think. I don't want to >> That sentence was wild. You your parents want you to buy us a house?

>> Yes. >> Like want to buy >> the entire house? >> The family. You them.

>> Do you have siblings?

>> Yeah, I do. Um, I have two brothers and I have one sister. Well, my my brother does not live with us.

>> Okay. >> Um, but >> where are you guys living now? >> Another brother.

>> Sorry, say that again. >> Where are you guys living now?

>> Um, >> like are you guys renting?

>> No, no, no. We own a house. It's a pretty big house. It's like 2,000 square ft. But my mom wants a nicer house cuz my uncle has a nice house. And you know it it's it's gonna go all on me and I'm just I'm really stressed and it feels like a lot of pressure. >> Well, sure. >> I want my mom to be happy.

>> Okay. So Okay. So I'm I'm so curious how this conversation goes. Do are they saying to you, Anna? You should buy us a house. We need a We need a new house.

Anna, you have the money. Why don't you just do it? Is that like is that how the conversation goes?

>> Yes. >> That is insane. I want you to know that >> house.

Why don't they just go buy a house? If they want a house, >> they can afford it.

>> It doesn't matter if you can afford it. You're not the one who wants a house.

>> If they want to upgrade a house, that's something they need to do as grown adults. >> How much money do you have, Anna?

>> I have around 150k cash.

>> A lot of it is in the market.

>> How do you have that much money at 20?

I'm just curious. Have you been working or how did you get that?

>> Um, I've been working since I was 15. I had a business at 15. I used to tutor people. >> We actually made an app. I don't want to say it publicly, but um we sold the app.

>> I made that money. Um and then I've been working like all throughout university through my degree. And right now I work I make like 70 60k a year.

>> Wow. >> Oh my gosh. >> And how are you going to pay for med school?

>> Like through my money, through my savings. And you know, like I know money always comes and goes. I I mean, as long as you have the skills and you can provide value, you can always make money. >> Okay. So, this $150,000, is that earmarked to pay for med school?

>> I have around 100k. So, yes.

>> Okay. So, therefore, it is not house buying money, especially when it's your parents who are forcing you to do this.

So, I would just tell them kindly and firmly, no, the money I have is to cash

flow my med school expenses.

>> Yeah. >> I will not be buying a house. >> And the truth is, Annie, when you when you go to med school and you start doing all of your programs, you know, you you have no idea what city you're going to be at. You have no idea what hospital you're going to be at doing, you know, all of your clinicals. I mean, every move across the country. >> Yeah. So, so no, in no way do you need

to be buying a house in your, you know, where you are in your season of life.

let alone the complete dysfunction of

your parents. Like, you know, that's crazy, right?

>> And it sounds insane. I I don't want to do it, but I want my mom to be happy.

You know, like she says my >> It's not your job to make your mom happy. >> It's not your job. And she sounds like a She's a woman that probably will never be happy. She'll get this house.

>> If you did, if you went through with this and you bought this, I guarantee you in three to four years, she's going to be like, "Oh, man. Well, my new friend has this house. So, >> a nicer car. It's time for the car upgrade. >> And the fact that she would go to her 20year-old and ask to not even ask kind of sounds

like demand or requested a house

>> is so wild. So wild. And you're you're smart. You know this. And so it it is

diff these will be difficult conversations, Anna. But the earlier you start doing this with kindness, but being very firm and knowing exactly where you stand, it's going to ruffle some feathers. But I would that this is going to be your life, right? I mean, I hate to say it, if these are your parents, I'm sure they were wonderful and raised you obviously did a great job uh you know, raising you because you're incredible, but but this is going to be

a picture of what the future looks like.

And if you can start putting up those boundaries now at 20 years old with a very obvious situation that there needs to be a boundary there, uh, that's just good. It's a good starting point for you. But I'm so sorry you have to do this. That's so unfair. It's an uncomfortable position. >> The fact they put you in the situation is crazy. >> Have you ever heard of the quote, you you give someone an inch and they'll take a mile?

>> Yes. >> That's what I think is going to happen with your family. They're going to continue to exploit everything you have

because you're the successful one in the family and they raised you and therefore how could you not buy them a house after everything they've done for you and they're going to use that to abuse and guilt you into things. That's the future that you have if you say yes to anything.

>> Yeah, you're right. Whatever you're saying yes to, look at what you're saying no. I always keep this in mind.

Um okay, here's one of my issues. I told

her I can't do this. She came in here and she was like, "You just need to sign the papers." And she was screaming at me for like an hour, 30 minutes to an hour,

saying, "Oh, don't worry. You'll remake the money." And I told her, "What about medical school?" She told me, "You can take loans." >> No. >> And I mean, >> and I'm going to be honest with you, I would move out if I were you. You make 60 $70,000 a year. You're a grown woman.

You're very smart. I would just go rent and say, "You guys need to figure this out. I'm gonna go out on my own.

>> And you don't give them a dime. You don't owe them anything.

>> Okay? >> That's the only way out of this because if you stay, they're going to say, "Well, you're under under our roof and look at everything we've done for you.

You need to just call it quits now cuz it's becoming a transaction instead of a relationship. It's about to be bank of Anna for the rest of your life if you don't put a foot down." >> And do they have what papers are they giving you? Do they already have a house they want to buy?

>> There's a house. Um they've been looking at houses and they'll send me like links of houses every day and um I I signed

the house like yesterday cuz I was like I mean I didn't know what to do. So I signed the contract and now I just need to give the earnest money in the >> Yeah. No no no earnest money. >> No. >> You need to back out of all of this. >> Okay. And Yeah. And I would kind of put it back on her. If money can just be earned and you can always make more money then go. Mom, >> are they both working full time >> and and support yourself? This is crazy.

>> My dad used to own a dealership. He he lost it in CO. Um, so I sell his cars.

>> We still have cars, but I sell them, but if I don't sell the cars, he doesn't do anything. So, right now, he's made no money. My mom is a teacher. She makes around 30k a year or 25.

>> And you're running dad's business while he sits around waiting for you to run his business.

Yes, but I've sold no cars this month or last month. I mean, I haven't had time.

>> Yeah, you're pretty busy.

>> Yeah, Anna, these are this is I I hate that you're in a position like this at 20 years old, but this is your reality and there is going to have to be some real hard conversations. And if you have the ability bandwidth wise, which financially you do, you make great money, I would sit down with a counselor or a therapist to walk through this. like this may be [music] some ongoing

discussions that are going to be had and I want you to be guided the right way.

So I almost would just find a professional to help you walk through this. [music] >> Best of luck.

[music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[music]

Lance is in Columbus, Ohio. Lance, what's going on?

>> Uh, not much. I'm just calling in to get some advice on my current financial situation. >> Sure. Lay it out for us.

>> Okay. So, I moved out to Ohio exactly a year ago with a goal to start clearing my debt away. I'm about $65,000 in debt.

Uh, it's a year later and I'm still pretty much in the same situation. And I don't understand why. I pay rent now and

I had to furnish my apartment when I got out here, but it just the math isn't adding up for me. >> How much do you make?

>> Uh at my new job, I make about a h 100,000 on a good year, assuming no layoffs.

>> Okay. So, in the past year, $100,000 has flowed through your hands in the last year, >> or at least that's the gross pay.

>> Yes. >> Are you doing a a pretty detailed budget, Lance, monthtomonth?

I mean, uh, about six months in, I really started cracking down on it because I saw that I wasn't gaining much traction. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how much is your rent a month?

>> Uh, rent's not too bad. It's $1,450.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Are you taking home five or six grand a month?

>> Um, a little bit more actually. It's about $2,000 a week.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's great. >> Mhm. So, where is the rest of the >> Where's it all going?

>> Um, well, like I said, I I pay rent now.

Before I didn't pay rent when I lived back home in New Hampshire. Um, and then I had to furnish my apartment. I guess the rest just just gets trickled out

there. And >> $6,000 doesn't trickle out there. So, if I looked at your bank statement and I added everything up, where would be the big piles of money that disappeared? Is it eating out? Is it subscriptions? Is it spending? Is it gambling? Any vices?

>> I I don't gamble. Um I I have a lot of

bills. I mean, I I have a truck payment

that's $500. I have insurance that's

$400 plus. I have a Harley that's $500.

Um >> break down the 65,000 for us. What are the balances and and what are they owed for?

>> I have about It's 65,000 give or take.

Um, I I have 30,000 on my Harley. I have

$25,000 on my truck. I have $8,000

on a personal loan. And I had $10,000 on

credit card debt, which I was able to manage down to $1,000.

>> Oh, good. >> Well, what good news is if you sell all

the vehicles Well, I mean, yeah, you got

that's 55,000 of your 65,000. I think we

found a problem. I looked into selling my Harley um back to the dealership when

they >> No, not to the dealership. >> The dealership. They're gonna give you the worst price. >> They'll screw you harder than anyone. >> Have you Have [laughter] you Kelly Blue Booked it? >> Yes, they do.

>> What's the Kelly Blue Book private party value?

>> I believe it's at 17,000.

>> I don't buy that. How are you that far underwater? >> What about your truck?

>> I haven't looked up the blue book value on it. Did you roll over negative equity for this Harley?

>> The Harley? No, it was a $30,000 Harley.

It was brand new.

>> Yeah, but how long have you had it?

>> Um, I'm going on the third year now, I

believe. >> Cuz if that's the case, it's in half. I mean, the value of it went in half, >> which I don't I'm not up on my Harley's.

I know that's probably shocking, but I don't >> Yeah, >> I don't keep up with the market on Harley's, but >> she's a Mitsubishi gal. That's [laughter] That's bad. Okay. Okay. Let's just keep playing with the numbers here, Lance. Okay. Your truck. When did you get the truck?

>> I got the truck uh last year right before I moved out to Ohio.

>> And it was it used, I'm assuming.

>> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. So, the good thing is the truck probably hasn't lost a ton of its value. So, let's just throw I don't know, let's say it's 22. Maybe you've maybe you lost three grand on it in the in the last year. So, what I would I

mean, honestly, what I would do is go and take out let's see um I would do 20.

I mean, maybe go if you can maybe sell

both of these things. Sell both the truck and the Harley, you may take out a Well, I was going to say that's a good chunk of a personal loan with all the negative difference pretty quick making the money you're making. >> I'm I'm willing I'm willing to sell my

truck and Harley. I do have a small car like a beater winter car that Okay. So, you have three You have three

>> things with wheels and motors. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's your homework. You need to find out the private party value and then the amount you're underwater on.

You either need to save that up through future paychecks or get a loan from a credit union for the difference so that you can clear the titles and sell these >> cuz that's going to be about 15,000 that you'll be negative on both of these around. So, >> I just I just don't know who to sell my Harley. I don't know how to sell my Harley, I guess, because the dealership was the only way I knew. And when they offered me less than half, I >> I mean, Facebook Marketplace, Cars.com,

Autotrader, there's a lot of people looking. You bought a Harley brand new for 30. So, three years later, someone's looking for it at half price.

>> Okay. I just I've never I've never sold anything that I that a bank owned, you know. >> Sure. Well, here's the deal. You're going to need to clear the title before they can actually take possession of it.

And that's why you need the difference either in cash that you save up or that loan from the credit union.

>> And you can do all the transactions on the same day. So the day you sell it is the day you go down to the wherever you owe the the loan to and you pay off the loan with the difference. >> Yeah. Because you just cut all your debt in half, Lance, when you do this, >> which means you get back again. You said the $600 payment for the Harley, the

$500 car payment. I mean, that's $1,100 less insurance. But here's what worries me a little bit is even after some of the things you were just saying. I mean, you still have a couple of grand sitting there um that is kind of disappearing that you still at the beginning of the call weren't able to tell us exactly where it was going.

So, that's still enough money for me to be like my only fear lands is when you do all of this and it does give you margin and frees you up that you're going to go back to this kind of spending habit that you're in of not knowing exactly where your money's going. And that's not going to be helpful either because instead of $4,000 slipping through your fingers, now it'll be 6,000, right? Or whatever it is.

and control your money and where it's

going. And so before we get off the call, Christian will pick up and we're going to give you a year of every dollar, which is our not just our budgeting app, but our overall financial um you can put in all of your numbers and your entire financial picture can be in this app, which is so helpful because you're going to be able to walk through the baby steps, pay off this debt, and we can really walk with you through it in this app.

You make great money, you work really hard, and it's disappearing through your fingers, and every dollar is going to help you take control of that uh to help stop that.

>> Yes, I I understand. I um a year ago I

was terrible with my money, and I'm still not the best, but I I have tightened down a lot, and I'm I've been living like a hermit for the last four or five months. I I'm I'm desperate to get out of debt. I want to >> I hear Yeah, I totally hear that, Lance.

What worries me is you've lived like a hermit for four months, but there's no been there's been no progress. So that's what I'm saying. It's like the two things don't add up. I want you to be a hermit, but I wish you'd called. I'm like, I was a hermit for four months and I paid off $9,000 of my debt, you know,

whatever it is. Like I want the the sacrifice to produce a result because it's just crazy to sacrifice and have no result, right? And so that's the power of when you are working a very detailed plan is you're getting the results that the sacrifice, you know, is allowing.

And so that's what I want those two parents because you'll you'll run on fumes the rest of your life if you're living like this and not making any progress is which is what I'm sounds like you're doing. So, um, yeah, as a single guy, Lance Man, I really would I this is this is the time in your life to cut everything and even if you want to work extra, you make great money, but man, if you even want to just throw in some extra income just to get it paid off that much faster, um, to be able to have some savings, I Yeah, I mean, I think >> the money I make is is with immense overtime.

>> Yeah, I believe it. And I think that work ethic if it's channeled to more I just think you just maybe need more details and direction and it's going to

help you see kind of where you're going.

But you're right your your habits are like I hear that that you are changing for the better which I think is a is a great um way to go. And you know what Lance too I'm going to say like some people their money story is that one day they they had the I had it moment and they changed everything. And then some people, they're like, "Hey, it took me about six months to kind of get all this under my belt to really learn and understand it and then they take off." And that just may [clears throat] be your story, which is great, but I just want you to see some progress to at least keep you motivated to stay with it.

>> Yeah. Hang on the line and Kelly will pick up. Christian will pick up.

>> [music]

>> This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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>> Martin is in Savannah, Georgia up next.

Martin, welcome to the welcome to the show, man. What's going on?

>> George and Rachel, awesome to talk to you guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, you as well. How can we help? >> Awesome. Um, all right. So, uh, this call is actually I'm looking to help my dad out. Um, my dad has $1.3 million net

worth. Um, that is 500 in a house paid for, 400 in a money market. He's got 200

in a thrift savings plan and he's got 200 in checking. Um, he lives very

frugal. He's by himself. My mother passed away in 2008. Um, he has four

forms of income. government retirement, the required minimum distribution, his social security, and a VA disability that he doesn't even touch >> all of that throughout the entire um >> How much is that per month?

>> I don't know exactly, but it is well well enough for him to live off of and he is just adding to his money market, his checking account. It just continues to grow. But he has nothing in any sort of investment. He is 80 years old. Um

his health is not great. Um, we recently

moved him near us so my wife and I can take care of him. And um, the other day I was talking to him and he mentioned, "Hey, what I think think about buying some gold and I was like, whoa, pump the brakes on that." And he [laughter] >> I was able to talk him off the ledge on that. Um, I did talk to him about investment in stocks and he has no interest in it, but I just want to help him out the best that he can.

>> Um, I will be managing or I'll be uh the beneficiary along with my brother. Um, we'll be splitting everything even even selling the house, selling his car, just any assets that he has. And I just want to set I want to set him up for the remaining part of his life, but also set us up for the future just to to do this very smartly. >> Yeah. Well, here's what I would say to

him if he called in. Okay. Um, I would

tell him that usually when it comes to emotions around money, when we make big decisions, um, that's not really a great guide because our emotions can take us places that are not, it's not reality.

So, >> sure, >> understanding reality is really big. And so, understanding that the market is a safe place to put our money. I mean, it is when you look at the long-term track record. Um, and the money that would be going into this this these accounts if

he did choose to invest them, he wouldn't even need them or see them because he has a paid off house. It sounds like he's a pretty lowmaintenance guy. He makes enough through what you were saying in his streams of income um to pay his bills and he's 80, not in the

best health of what you're saying. He's not going to go like climb Mount Rushmore or whatever Mount Rushmore. No, you don't climb Mount Rushmore [laughter] ever. I mean, I guess you could >> I don't think it's legal. >> President's faces. We don't want him to do that. No, we don't want that. No, but you know, he's not going to be going all over the world traveling. It's what it sounds like and doesn't have a desire to. So, because of all of those things,

>> the reason he would put money in is to continue the legacy at which he's built, which is pretty fantastic. Like, what he has set up already is incredible. So, the reason he would do it is to pass on to future generations and to make more money. Hey, I mean that that's that's that's that would be it, right? But I also would say on the other side of this, if he's 80 and he's not in the

best health and if putting money in the market stresses him out and loses sleep over it, that's not worth it either.

>> He's fine. He's fine. He doesn't have to. >> He doesn't have to do this.

He's going to be fine. So, >> yeah. I don't think you're going to like scare him into investing. Be like, "Dude, you're going to run out of money." He clearly isn't.

>> Yeah. So, it's a it's either a okay, my knowledge and my reason why has changed, so now I'm going to choose to do something differently, like put the money in. >> But again, I mean, we've talked to elderly people on this show and it terrifies them. And and we always say if you're fine financially, it's not worth it.

That is not worth it to be to lose sleep at night for a reason, you don't need to. You don't need to.

Um, so that would be [clears throat] the two sides of the coin. I think he should because I think it's a wise thing financially. You can use like an investment calculator and show him the track record of the S&P 500 and show him how he could have 2.6 million instead of 1.3. I don't know that he's going to be impressed. I think he might be like, I'm fine. Who cares? So, here's the truth.

He might pass away. You inherit this and then you grow this money the way you want to. >> Correct. Yeah. >> I don't know that his in his remaining lifetime that you're going to be able to change an 80-year-old's mind on how he views money and the world.

>> Yeah. But I you can steer him away from scams and traps and commodities that will not actually >> benefit. And we have and and that was the gold and and I I said listen if if you want to put money in gold imagine you know like Dave says put in the middle middle of the living room light it on fire. Are you willing to lose that much money? >> Yeah. >> And you know so awesome. Yeah. Um when

when I I mean when I do acquire this since none of it is in investments well the 200 in the thrift savings plan but for the most part we sell the house that's cash everything else is cash um will I be also looking at taxes on this since I'll be inheriting it or you know I'll just or just get with the smart vtor pro on stuff like that. I believe it would just go against his estate. And so as long as you know he doesn't have liabilities and you're the beneficiary on these accounts, um I don't believe that you would be paying taxes on that cuz you're not selling off a stock >> and so there's no capital gains here to be paid.

If it was in a traditional account and taxes haven't been paid on the growth, then you might be liable for taxes.

>> financial advisor he has uh he just moved and he needs he said he needs to go to a lawyer and get his estate not his estate um the will all redone and everything with the new state. So >> so he's at least willing to do that. He is and and him and I have got a fantastic relationship and we're actually he's very open to talking about this with me because he wants to know that um not only is everything going to

be handled correctly, but also he wants to know that I know what to do with it, too. >> That's wonderful. Well, I was going to say it might it'll be worth seeing if he would sit down, maybe you go with him and sit down with a Smart Veester Pro.

you connect with one on our website and just have an outside professional look at it and maybe they'll convince him of,

hey, you have a lot of money sitting on the sidelines. You're losing purchasing power every day. Inflation is eating away at this. You could really do something with this money to leave a legacy. And that [clears throat] might convince him and maybe he does some of the money over time. He does 50,000 this year, another 50,000 next year. He gets more comfortable with it and over time we start moving these two investments.

>> Yeah. And one of the things I was concerned with him for was that some of this money is not FDIC insured. Maybe at a minimum we move that over to something. So awesome.

>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. Thanks for the call, man. We're seeing more more and more of this for sure of just >> and he sounds amazing, Martin.

I mean, what >> doing a great job. >> Yeah. And just the fact that he'll even dialogue with his son. There's so many >> and be willing to create a will and talk about the >> estate.

Honestly, we talked to so many adult children who say like my parents will not do X, Y, and Z. um or they're having to take care of them. I mean, so the fact that yeah, you you hear something like this, I'm like, man, just incredible. Absolutely amazing.

>> We got a call, I think it was yesterday, and he was like, "Hey, my dad won't make a will. We have 10 siblings. He has a ton of real estate." >> Oh man.

>> Oh no. >> What an Might Shyamalan twist that was.

[laughter] >> And you're like, "How do I convince this guy?" I'm like, "I don't know. I don't know what information he has. >> I don't know the day or the hour." He somehow knows when he's going to die and when Jesus is coming back. Those are two pieces of information that nobody knows.

>> I think you should just climb Mount Rushmore and call it a day.

>> You have a better chance [laughter] of climbing Mount Rushmore. >> I know >> that is so true. But that think about it. If you truly love your family, why would you leave it to chance? Why would you leave it to the government to decide what happens? that and the relational strain it causes on the family of them

trying to make the decisions and decide and and it ends up tearing families apart. It really does. So, the clearer you can be, the more communication you can be or you can have um before your passing like that is such a gift to your family. It really is. And it sounds morbid and it's not fun to talk about, but um golly, it is a it is such a gift

for everyone to know exactly what's going on. And yeah, and when you die, you just say, "Okay, press play on." And it's Yeah. And it's smooth. I mean, >> you said it much nicer than I would. I I like to say, "If you hate your family, don't have a will and make it as confusing as possible. [laughter] >> If that's what the route you want, >> if that's what you want." If that's what you want. Yeah. It is. Uh Yeah. I don't

know. It It's interesting though, the people that truly don't even want to um

engage on any level of a conversation when it comes to death. And it's and again it's not fun to talk about but you guys having life insurance having a will in place like these things >> making sure your beneficiaries are correct. >> Yeah. I mean genuinely it is and it takes some work and again it's not always fun to think about but that it's irresponsible not to do that if you have a family.

>> Well then you run into the issue of well now they can't cognitively make these decisions and we never got financial power of attorney and now you have a real nightmare on your hands. >> Yes. Yes. So just do the work.

Be an adult. It's not always fun, but we got to do things that aren't fun sometimes. >> I can't wait till I'm 80 and scenile.

That's going to be a good time. >> You're going to be the grumpiest per.

>> Poor poor Mia and Henry. >> I'll just be settling into who I was made to become. That's all that'll happen.

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And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start Every Dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Jenna is in Boston

up next. What's going on, Jenna? How can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, my

husband and I recently have become just huge fans and uh, so we've have an

implement for a will. We went through the life insurance you guys recommend.

>> Oh my gosh, we're so proud of you guys.

>> Good job. Well done. Yeah, we've we did

the budgeting app and um we so we've

been comfortable like we've been fine, but we're in debt. So, I feel like we've

just been paying our minimums and

going along with it. And through your show, I've been getting like that sick feeling that like we are doing this all wrong. So, that's what kind of encouraged this. Um and we we do okay.

So, but we have uh about n combined

$98,000 of debt.

>> Okay. >> Because of mostly student loans.

>> Um I have about $36,000. My husband has

maybe 50. Okay. >> And then $10,000 give or take in like medical bills, credit cards, stuff.

>> Okay. >> So, that and we >> Any cars, Jenna, or is that just >> No, no cars. >> Perfect. Okay. >> No. um no car payments. So with um the

small like 10,000 I feel like we can do real quick and then it's getting into um

the student loans. So >> we budgeted it and I kind of um mapped

out it looks like we could say have it paid off >> in about under three years it looked like I think. So >> what do you guys make >> with that though? um combined somewhere around 230 typically.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Um so the reason um I originally my plan

was like a five-year plan. I really wanted to knock it down faster than that. So my husband puts like 6% of his

salary and he makes more than me in um

his 401k and so we talked about him stopping doing that. So, I make less than, but I I like have hold the benefits and things like that. And I work for a really big um investment firm and I get a 7% match. So, I do have a

decent 401k with them. Um do I stop

getting like do I should I stop putting money in that even though I'm getting that 7% from them by doing it?

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. all all of your focus needs to be

on paying off this debt. And Jenna, I would I would challenge you guys because of what you make. Um I would think you

would only need a deposit for maybe two years because I think you could pay this off in a year. You guys make $230,000.

You have a h 100,000. What if you guys lived on $95,000 a year and you did

nothing with your life?

So, I I do I definitely think we need to cut back on our spending and we could pay it things off a lot sooner, but the big ex So, we have we own a house. We have a mortgage. Our mortgage is about 2600 a month, which um for us is affordable right now. That's fine. Um but we also have a son, so we pay for daycare, which is about 300 a week or so.

>> So, about 1,200 a month. Um, so that's

kind of where um the bigger expenses are.

>> But you guys are bringing home what, like 15K a month. What do you What's your take-home pay?

>> Um, when I was doing the math in in the budgeting app, originally it showed like 11,000 or so, but I think that was before we touched um the health insurance and >> 401k after taxes. >> What's his gross? makes about 155 without his bonus.

>> Okay. And then what do you make?

>> Um I make about 70 without overtime and

without my bonus. >> Okay. So we'll call it Can we call it 80?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Give or take around. >> And you're doing 7%. So here's the the amount that you would free up to throw toward your debt per year. You're looking at 9,300 plus 5600.

That's pretty sizable. So you're talking $15,000 a year that could go toward your debt on top of all the margin you have.

And that's why we're saying, what if you pause for one year, go down to zero, and you come back guns ablazing in 2027,

investing 15%. Both of you investing 15%. >> You you will well make up for any lost employer match, investing 15% for the rest of your life versus the current track, which is I guess we'll just invest up to the match forever cuz we're going to have this debt for a long time.

>> So, do you see the intensity that we're after here? And by the way, going down to 0% investing is going to make you both mad, isn't it?

>> Mad at your debt. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely not.

>> Not mad at each other. So that's going to make you get out of debt faster because you want to get back to investing. And so it's kind of like a carrot you dangle in front of you saying, "Man, I want to get back to that." And that's going to fire you guys up.

>> Okay. So it's part math, parts.

>> Pay that off with daycare and the mortgage in a year. >> Yeah. I don't think daycare and the mortgage is your problem here. I think it's the other things that are >> Yeah, because that just that added up to 3,800 >> out of 11 grand.

So, it's like, can we live off of five for the rest and throw the other amount >> and that would get y'all paid off in a year and nine months more than just two and a half, right? So, like maybe make it a year and a half, >> see if someone can take on a, you know, part-time job for a couple of couple of months. Bring in and we talked to people making side hustles and they make two grand a month just on side hustles.

you guys do that and then you get an emergency fund in place then yeah you are you are good to go but it's just the

decision you guys have to make and everyone does that that does this and chooses to pay off their debt is the more intense you are the more you sacrifice the faster you get out and so it's just a decision of are we going to just live like crazy people for a year and four months and get this just taken care of and it's just insane. But it's done. But it's drag it out for three years or do we want to drag it out for three or four years? >> Life's going to happen.

You're going to get comfortable, complacent, and go, "Well, four years is okay." I want you guys to have such an aggressive specific goal to where we go 98,000 that's 81.66 a month.

We're going to pause investing to free up 1250 a month on top. If you start doing it like that, that makes me believe you'll actually get out of debt in a year. And people end up getting out of debt faster than what they originally calculate, Jenna, too, because there's things that you don't see and you don't know, like bonuses or raises, you know, or you pick up this thing or this thing you forgot you had over here and you throw it at the de I mean, it's just >> you're just willing to work harder. >> Yes.

Stuff ends up coming up, which is amazing. >> And then you get a promotion and get the bonus cuz they're like, man, >> Jenna's on fire this month. I don't know what got into her, but she is crushing it. And that, I think, will truly propel you guys into this debtree journey.

And then once you're debt free, you're never going to go back. And you'll get that emergency fund. Do you guys have savings right now that you could use to start this process? >> Yeah.

>> How much? >> Yeah, we we usually have um between five and 10 in savings. >> Okay. >> Oh, that's wonderful.

>> So, what if you used a bunch of that to knock out the smallest debts right now just to kind of kickstart it and say, you know what, this is us putting skin in the game. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Thank you.

Yeah, I I could pay off by my husband.

>> Is he going to be convinced? I feel like he's still going to go, "Babe, we're not doing that." >> No, he's pretty The only thing he doesn't like is just the uh He's on page with me on all of it. He wants to pay it off. He's kind of dove into it all with me. He's in great um the only thing he likes is having a bit more of an emergency fund than a thousand just with kids and stuff, but sure.

>> Other than that, like he's pretty much good to jump into all of it with me.

>> Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I'm glad you guys are, you know, on the same page for the most part. And that's a normal fear. We hear that usually from >> if it's a couple, especially with kids, that is kind of a a thing that we have.

But the truth is, too, if something were to happen and you guys had to pause it that snowball, you have eight grand freed up per month. Do you know what I mean? Like you guys could get >> cash really fast if if something comes up that's more than a thousand. So, >> and again, with that emergency fund, that's going to add another fire lit under you.

you pause investing and you take your savings down, you're going to go, "Oh my gosh, we need to get out of debt ASAP." And that's going to again get you out of debt even faster. And so I encourage you guys to go all in on the plan cuz it works. And if you do it all cart like a buffet, >> it's not going to work as fast.

>> So just try it our way. >> And let me say though, kudos to you guys. I mean, y'all are at the very front end of all of this. I mean, just even doing the life insurance and the will and the budgeting app, every dollar and everything. Yeah, you guys are doing awesome. >> Love to hear it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Ann is in Jackson, Mississippi. Up next, Ann, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. >> Um I'm 60 plus years old, starting life

over again or supposed to be. Um just

got divorced. M >> um he was the private he was the bread winner of the family. Um we had been

putting like 15% away in 401's and savings and all of this or so I was led

to believe. Um and it turns out we were

he we weren't.

um and found out about that and affairs

and I told him that this wasn't acceptable and he told me I could get out of the house which I did. Um it became very

abusive very fast.

>> Um I got an apartment. I I dug a hole, got

in an apartment trying to get my life back together.

I didn't I walked away without nothing from the marriage. Um we had no kids together. I have two ch I have a couple of kids from a previous marriage. Um

and my car broke down and I'm that person. I can't pay my rent this month.

>> Um I don't know how I don't know where to turn or what to do. I'm using the everyday budget.

When I just put like my expenses and everything, it works out okay. But then there's always the other shoe that seems to be dropping and I can't get ahead and catch a break and I just really need like >> advice. I've gone back to work so I have I'm getting a little bit of income that way but I'm just like terrorized. I just feel like >> Well, your whole life is turned upside down completely.

>> I I don't know who to turn to or where to go or what to do.

>> Oh, Ann, I'm so sorry. How long were you guys married?

>> 14 years. >> 14 years. Okay. And I'm trying to write I'm trying to help my daughter raise her two kids and it's just I I feel like I'm

I can't breathe. I'm drowning.

>> Yeah. Well, you're in a I mean a state of grief completely. I mean it's almost like someone has died, right? Is that

feeling. So you are from an emotional standpoint >> um turned inside out which is horrible.

I mean, much less a divorce, but the reasons why of the infidelity and the secrets and the lie. I mean, it just seems to just be piling on. And so, um,

and I've heard Dr. John Zaloney talk about this that, you know, in that case, it's almost like you question yourself like, how did I not know, right? You start to feel like, am I the crazy one?

>> I can't trust myself, right? And so, I just want to free you from all of that.

um that you made you made the exact right decision on what you did and and you still have another quarter to go in

life which is amazing right like you get to now create something totally new and while it's so scary because you would never have even dreamt of of being where you are today um it is the reality and

so it's it is what are you going to do one literally one day at a time is kind of where you're at when I'm hearing you talk and so yes >> um okay so you got nothing in the divorce because there was nothing. Is that basically it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> Is the divorce finalized?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And no. Did you have an attorney?

>> No. >> Why? >> I didn't have I didn't have money to hire one. >> But you should be getting alimony from this, some spousal support, something.

You >> No, I'm not. I'm not entitled to it. The house was in his name because he owned it before the marriage. Was there a >> entitled to that? I did talk with an attorney.

Um but no, >> I just don't see how you're married for 14 years. He's the bread winner and you get zero from this divorce.

>> Yeah. Usually there's alimony until you get remarried if you do. Um and there's no child support because they're not his kids. So there's that's probably not. Um what did the attorney say when you spoke to the attorney?

He said that I could hire the attorney, hire a forensic accountant

>> to go through to prove everything.

>> I mean, >> but at this point, >> that would be expensive. And at this point, and he said that I would, you know, I could spend $10,000 and walk away with nothing.

>> Yeah, which is true. But but I would be curious on the >> I still think his future income needs to play a part in this regardless if he had anything in the bank account. Um, what are you doing now for work and how much do you make?

>> Um, I'm on disability because I have a a

disability and so I get 2,000 from that and then I'm making about $800

in addition to that.

>> And what's your rent every month?

>> 175. >> You're making $800 a week or a month? In addition >> a month. >> Doing what? A month. What are you doing?

A >> part-time substitute teacher.

Okay. And what's the nature of the disability? Is there something where you can't do certain types of work?

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, could you do if you're a substitute teacher that's fairly physical? You got to get up, go there, stand all day. So, I'm wondering, can you do something different that pays more that is more regular and stable?

>> Um, I'm looking. I am. I'm I'm I'm

looking. I've got applications in in a

lot of different places. Um

>> And why can't you pay rent this month if you have the 2,000 in disability plus your 800?

>> I put $700 to get my car repaired. I'm

like I said, when I moved out when I got my place in May, I have been one foot in

the hole the whole time. I've I've

>> But what kind of debt? >> In the hole deeper. >> Yeah. Ann, what kind of debt do you have?

>> I I don't have any.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, when you say in the hole, are you just saying there's emergencies that come up? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you have the car repair 700.

You paid that. What else is on the horizon? >> I'm also helping I'm also helping my daughter raise her two kids. We can't do that right now.

>> We can't do that. Ann, >> you're drowning. You don't have a a life raft to throw at her. Yeah.

Are when you're saying that, are you saying that you're doing that with your time or what does that mean? >> Or money? >> That is I I'm doing it with my time and helping out with food and things like that because they're with me a lot of the time. >> Okay.

So, and I'm telling you, and we can you can get back to I know that's your heart and that's probably where you want to be as a grandmother. I want you to get back to that place. You just can't probably in the next two years. So you need to have a conver and your daughter doesn't want you in this situation like what you're what you're describing to us is you can't even pay your rent.

>> If you get evicted, you have to live with her. >> It's irresponsible. Okay. It's irresponsible to be watching your grandkids right now from a time and money perspective.

It just is. Ann, we can get back to that place cuz I want you to be able to do those things, but right now we have to get you stable financially. Okay.

your your daughter will has to understand that like if I I would assume if you came to her and said I can't pay my rent mom. Okay. So then she she needs to figure out another plan for herself and her kids for the next 24 months.

Like that's what I would say. Um okay.

And so that you have the time and the bandwidth and the money. So Ann, your first things are food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Those are the only things that get paid. Okay. And then beyond that, we have to be upping the income and hopefully [music] with some time bandwidth back um from not being super grandma um that we can start

funding and actually getting and getting some savings, looking at retirement and starting those steps. But if you hold on the line, Ann, Christian's going to pick up. and get you with one of our financial coaches um to to help walk with you through a next couple [music] of steps cuz I know that I mean I I know you you probably just feel like you're in a complete fog because >> [music] >> um yeah it's just horrible horrible where you're at but I know you can get to the other side of this.

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Faith is in Cleveland, Ohio. Up next, Faith, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, my question is, how do I save up for an

upcoming wedding while I'm in baby step 2? Um, my only debt is my car loan.

>> Cool. What's left on the car loan?

>> It's about 29,000.

>> And what do you make?

>> Um, it's 42,000 a year.

>> Perfect. We need to get rid of this car, don't we, Faith?

>> Yes. Um, I've convinced myself that the car is necessary to keep because my

family is very unlucky with cars. We

currently have two cars in our driveway that don't run. And I drove no car. I

borrowed cars for over a year. And then I bought this car I have and it's like fully on warranty and stuff and I'm like, "Cool, I'm good to go now." But now it's also taking up a bigger chunk of my pay and I'm like almost to pay for >> as much as much as you bring home after taxes is what you owe in a car. So we can't do that. Yep.

We got to >> we got to get rid of it.

responsibly with more uh intention and

know what we're looking for and all of those things because I don't want you making a really stupid financial decision on quote unquote we have bad luck. So >> um I voodoo doll like did your family

was there like an ancient king you >> there was like a curse a curse that was put on Faith's family. Faith is like, "Actually, probably yes." [laughter] >> No, I feel that. Okay. What's the wedding going to cost? What are you looking at right now?

>> Um, it's our budget right now is 15. We

do have a family member that has

set aside 5,000 for us.

>> That's nice. Family member that has

>> Huh. >> Does that bring it down to 10?

>> Yes. >> Perfect. >> And what about the fiance?

>> Are you guys going to split this 50/50 or what? Uh, we're going to attempt, I

guess. He currently isn't working right now. He's full-time in flight school trying to cash flow that with >> Okay. >> He's also in the Air Force, so he uses whatever money he makes from that to cash flow his schooling. >> Smart. That's great. >> When does he finish school?

>> He's, if the weather permits, he's supposed to graduate the December after we get married, which we're getting married next September.

>> Okay. So, we still have a year to deal with all this. >> Yes. Okay. >> Um I have tossed around the idea of many times of getting rid of the said car.

>> Yes. >> My fear though is that I'll get a car because I'll be upside down on the Jeep

and I fear that I'll get some cheaper car and it'll immediately break down and then I'll have an expensive repair cuz that's what's happened all these other cars I've had. >> Sure. What How much are you underwater on? What's the car? If you sold it private party, what could you get for it? I I don't I haven't looked that up. I know that I bought it in July for 23 and my loan is 29. >> How did that happen? They sold you a $6,000 warranty.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Here's the good news. You can get the money back from that warranty.

>> Mhm. >> So, you can you can get the majority.

It'll probably be prorated, but you can get that money back. >> Okay. That's good news.

>> So, try that and then see what the car

is actually worth. And if you're underwater by a little bit, you can come up with the savings to cover it. Let's say it's $1,000 that you'll still owe.

Cars worth 22, you owe 23, for example.

>> Was it Did you buy it brand new or was it >> No, it was used. Yeah.

>> Cuz Jeeps don't have the best resale value. >> Yeah. What What What's the model of it?

>> It's a Wrangler. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, the only reliable car you could find was a Jeep Wrangler. Everything else was a crapshoot.

>> Can we just commit that Faith just wanted a newer Jeep Wrangler?

>> Oh, yeah. For sure. [laughter] My love.

It feels so much better. >> If it was like a Honda Accord, we'd be like, "Yes, we got it." >> A Jeep Wrangler has I want this energy,

>> you know? >> So, >> Faith wants that vibe.

>> The good news is we can get you a reliable car that's $14,000. That's not

going to be riddled with repairs. And here's what you need to do. Research the make, model, year. Look up what the common recalls are, common repairs are.

And then pay for a pre-purchase inspection from a mechanic that you trust. It's going to cost you maybe 100 150 bucks, but that's going to give you the peace of mind that you're not buying a lemon. And so this bad luck was really just impulsive car purchases out of desperation when we didn't do the research to make sure we weren't buying a lemon. So I want to encourage you that you can break the cycle just by pausing and being a little bit intentional.

>> Okay. >> So what you could do, Faith, is again you you probably are underwater on it a little bit. Probably not a ton because it's used and it's only been since July.

Is that what you said? July. Yeah.

>> So, I mean, you may be able to get I don't know, private sale. You might be able to or I guess if you get the warranty back, do can they do you got to go back to the dealer ship?

>> Yeah. I'm wondering how would that work?

>> I also work at the dealer I bought it at. >> Well, that makes this real. >> Would they take it back for what you bought it for?

>> Or maybe a little bit less.

>> I mean, maybe. If it's your employer, I would hope you tell them, "Hey, I can't afford this." >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Which is so I mean, I hate to say it, Faith, there's like all these Instagram videos of people that work at car dealerships and they're like bragging about >> their car payments, how broke they are.

>> Yeah. All of it. Um, so yeah, you'll be kind of an uphill battle there a little bit, but so worth the conversation cuz yeah, if it can just be a flat like >> Do they sell $14,000 cars at this dealership? >> I'm just curious.

Faith doesn't have $14,000. I mean, do you have any do you have any money? Do you have any money saved? I only have my $1,000 starter emergency fund.

>> Okay. So, you get out of this, you free up the payment, which is how much? The payment plus the insurance.

>> Okay. So, you at least free that up. If you just put that in a savings account for a year, that's 6,000 bucks.

>> Well over that. >> Yeah. That's without having a car, though. >> Could you get a loan from your credit union to cover the difference plus some for a little bit? Like it's gonna be it's not going to be a super nice car compared to what you're driving now, but it'll get you from A to B until the wedding at least.

>> Uh, okay. I guess I could throw this in there. I could probably do that. But my fiance also has two very old trucks that both still run. >> Yay. Ding, ding, ding. Faith is now a truck driver. One of them.

>> She is driving a truck.

>> It's great. Do it. Do it. This is like

the biggest ego play though for most people is the car to go from what you're going to to an old truck. You're like, "Oh golly, it's gonna it's going to be a

ego play." But I'm telling you, Faith, when that money is freed up, you save it. You get a side hustle. Cuz I think I think you and I think even though your fiance's in flight school, I think at night he could drive you like you guys could save up $2 to $3,000 a month and

easily fund this wedding really quick.

And I would just keep going until you're married. And you guys start off marriage debtree. Start off marriage with actually a couple of thousand dollars or more above the wedding that when it's all said and done, you guys have some money to start out your emergency funds with. >> And and yeah, you guys are on like a really great path financially. It's just putting the ego aside for a bit. Just one year. >> That's what it is. And >> you deserve a Jeep Wrangler faith, but you deserve to be debtree even more.

>> Yeah. And so one day >> third Jeep and I'm like >> it's your third Jeep and you've had bad luck with the other two Jeeps and you decided well it's not the >> Jeep. Faith is not a Jeep. This is not

your identity. Faith just say that over and over again. This is not because when you get in that truck you're like I am not a truck. This is >> you got to get rid of the rubber ducks if you're going to drive that truck.

That's going to hurt. You can't do the Jeep Wave anymore. >> Oh yeah, that's true. You'll get back there though.

I think it's a good goal. But I want you to do it the wise way. I mean honestly making $42,000 a year before taxes. what you bring home is close to what you owe on this car.

What's your interest rate on this?

>> Uh, 7%.

>> That's not true. >> I'm just shocked the dealership lets you do this. Like, the debt to income ratio just hurts my soul.

>> Who's the Do you know the salesperson?

Well, >> can you talk to them? >> Yeah, it's probably Faith.

>> Faith is the sales. >> I don't know.

>> Yeah. Well, I will. Yeah, I would. And again, it's going to take a lot of humility to go in there, but it is worth it. How old are you guys, Faith?

>> Um, I'm actually going to be 25 on Thanksgiving Day. >> Okay. Coming up is 24.

>> Awesome. Yeah. If you guys can start getting these habits in place and you can start actually living this out, and I'm talking about the the humility, like putting the what I want and what feels good and what feels normal aside, and you start living in a little bit of this discomfort. I'm telling you that discomfort is going to cause you guys to persevere in life.

Like when we just live comfortably 24/7 and that's what debt helps you do. Y >> I want it and I'm going to just live there.

of perseverance and grit. We just kind

of sit in what feels right and then we get screwed financially. So let's be smart. Faith that when you guys can get this this young, I'm telling you, y'all can be multi-millionaires when you start investing. You start living on less than you make. Like it is insane what you guys can do, especially when debt is not in the picture.

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at88255225.

Are you staying on track with the baby steps? We've got a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps, and complete the quiz?" Drew is in Kansas City up next. What's going on, Drew?

>> Hey, so I really want to get an electric

bike. Uh, but I still live at home at 28

with my wife.

>> Whoa. What happened?

>> Uh, nothing really. We just got married a couple of months ago. Uh we were looking at getting a home prior to the marriage but decided to hold off due to the uh interest rates and my parents offered for us to stay with them to save some extra money.

>> Okay. How much are you saving currently per month by living with them? Like what's actually going into a savings account? >> So 3,000 a month is going into the savings account and then I have uh other money being set aside into like an employee stock purchase program.

>> Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. Two cars paid off. 2020 Camry,

2009 Mazda 6.

>> Good for you guys. What do you What do you guys make a year?

>> Uh, combined a little bit over $100,000.

>> And Drew, why aren't you all renting somewhere?

>> Uh, we just wanted to be able to buy a house and not pour more money.

>> You'd rather live with your parents than not rent.

>> I'm sorry. >> The situation is not bad at all. The down is like newlyweds. Nothing in me.

to be in the [laughter] house with parents or in-laws for an extended period of time. Do we agree?

>> Are there some codependency issues going on here, Drew?

>> I don't believe so. No, we're just trying to save as much money as we can.

>> Okay, I know, Drew, but do you I mean, is there any like is there any part of like the dignity in y'all that are like, I just want to get up in the morning and make cereal and not open the refrigerator and look at the milk and like there's my my mom in the kitchen making eggs in a robe. Like, >> do you know what I'm saying? Like, y'all are married. Not ideal. >> What does your How does your wife feel about this?

>> Um, she actually doesn't mind it. We have a great relationship with my family. >> Okay. But you can have a great relationship with your family and also not live with them. >> Be adults and and and you called about an electric bike, Drew. Like, >> you have a vehicle. >> You got to have fun while you're young. >> Okay. Yeah. [laughter] >> But you can't tell me you're doing all this cuz you really want to be a homeowner and then we're blowing money on toys.

>> That's a valid point. >> How old are you, too?

28. >> Okay, let's play this out. What What would a onebedroom cost in in the area?

>> Uh, $1,1200.

>> So, I just imagine you I'm so sorry. Can we just be honest? Like, I love you guys. Like, if we were out having a beer, I think we would really get along.

I just can't imagine Drew R and your electric bike pulling into your parents' driveway. Honey, >> no. Mom, I'm home. I'm home from my

electric bike ride around the neighborhood. Like, Drew, you're a man.

You're a man. Like, you you got this.

Like, you got to like come on. Come on.

Anything. Anything. Nothing. All right.

Okay. >> I mean, does that not kind of make you laugh? >> We have a large sum of money saved up.

>> So, go rent an apartment.

>> How much money do you guys have saved currently? >> So, right now, we have about $60,000.

What's the goal? What's What is the number? What's the number before you go, "All right, mom. I'm out.

Uh the goal is just to move out at the beginning of next year. So we're planning on saving 3,000 a month until then um while we look at a house and then find that and move out.

>> Okay. What's the What's an electric bike cost these days?

>> Uh it's $4,000. It's like a dirt bike, but it's electric.

>> Dude, the motocross dreams need to go

for now. Like we need to we need to put $4,000 towards our deposit for our apartment. >> You can afford both, Drew. Like buy the bike and move out. Like you can do both.

>> How about this? If you buy the bike, can we force you to move out tomorrow?

>> I feel like that's a fair deal.

>> Yes, that's fair. >> Congratulations. You're the owner. >> I think that's it. I think that's it. Drew, you can buy the bike, but you have to move out of your parents house. And I mean, please. I'm telling you.

>> Real question though. Does she fold the laundry? >> She does not fold the laundry. I do all the laundry. >> Proud of you. That's our boy. [laughter] That's our boy.

Drew, it's just good for y'all. You just you y'all need to spread your wings.

You're you're leave and cleave. Y'all got to figure out how to pay the bills and get the water turned on in the new apartment. Like, y'all need to be self-sufficient. >> Yeah. Jumping from living with mom to being a homeowner is just too big of a gap. It's going to be a rude awakening.

>> Well, yeah. Well, and I guess it I think I would feel a little bit better about it if y'all were like, "We're $300,000 in student loan debt and we're both lawyers and we're about to get our law." I don't know. Like, if there was some like big reason, but there's there's not even that. It's just to quote unquote save money. And and I think your dignity is more than that. I mean, genuinely, you and your wife together, I think you just learn a lot when you are not sharing a wall with your parents.

>> It's [laughter] true. Yes. Yeah. We both have lived alone before and with roommates.

So, it's not like it's our first time, you know, spreading our wings and flying. But, >> well, it will be as a couple. It is as a couple and y'all are going to now have to share a bathroom and you're going to have to like Yeah, I mean you Yeah, you guys are It's a different situation than the dudes >> living in the rental house together. So, no, it's your wife and Yeah, y'all will y'all will run into things that you're not running into relationally when you are out on your own, which is a good thing.

It's how it should be. It's how it should be. So, um, yeah, Drew, get the bike and and and apply for an apartment this afternoon >> and fly away on that bike to your new apartment. >> Make sure they have ebike parking at the new apartment.

Where are you going to park that thing? You got to store it. This might be a nightmare. [laughter] >> I don't know the visual. I just can't.

>> There it is. >> Into the driveway. >> Right into the driveway. >> I'm home. Home, man.

>> I love this so much. Y'all, y'all are awesome though and you've been very smart financially. I will give y'all that. Y'all have a lot of money. You're debtree. >> Y'all are very capable people. I think that's what's driving me crazy about it is you're so capable. >> If it slows you down 6 months to buy a house, I'm okay with that for the sake of your dignity. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I know.

>> All right. Nick is in Kansas City as well. Maybe Nick knows Drew. What's going on there? >> They can ride bikes together. >> They're in cahoots. [laughter] >> Not much. Um I do not know Drew. Sorry

to say. He sounds like a great guy. >> I'll connect [laughter] you.

>> So my question is is my wife and I are recently called in to do some missions work. >> Cool. >> And we are in the waiting period between

the call and going. [snorts] Now God hasn't given us a timeline as to when that call is, but some financial stuff has been brought to my mind um as I'm kind of processing this call. So, um,

I've worked with one of your Ramsy Pros as far as real estate goes, and I know the value of your house to sell, but we also have some student loans and some other debt as well. My question is,

should we sell the house knowing that we are leaving the country to be called emissions and live in a renters's market

knowing full well that the rent that the rent we will pay is two to three times what we are uh paying for our mortgage

right now or do we continue to attack

our debt aggressively as we have been doing for years and um wait to pay off the rest of that debt. when we sell the house and leave.

>> How I'm confused. If you're doing mission work, are you how much are you getting paid for that?

[sighs] >> So, I am here's the thing. If I am a disabled veteran as well, um I'm sitting at 90% right now, which is around uh 2820, the

country that we are called to. This is more than five times the median income for a family our size to be able to live

in the country. >> What you will make on disability, you guys can cover your cost living.

>> Oh, yeah. Okay. That's great.

>> I was just confused. You said we're still going to aggressively tackle our debt. I've just never heard of a missionary being able to do that. >> Well, before they're not they're not on the field now. So, today what they do?

>> No, we're not on the field yet. >> And when and do you know timeline when you will?

>> No, we don't. Okay. I would just stay in the home, Nick. I would stay actually you could sell the house to Drew cuz he's looking for a house. But no, I would I would stay in the house aggressively paying off your debt and then when you guys are in a position to move and start the missions, I would put the house for sale. Do you guys have family in the area?

>> Uh we have my wife's parents, but the the relationship's kind of strained.

>> Okay. I was going to say because if you guys go, you're going to have to sell this house kind of long distance. You'll just need a great realer >> and then when you sell the house, the equity of the house, you could pay off the remaining debt. But I would stay in the house, continue to aggressively pay off debt. Yeah, I would do that. I would just stay in the house, aggressively pay off debt, and then when you guys move, sell the house. Even if it's kind of a long-distance purchase, I would do that.

>> I like that plan. I wouldn't hang on to it while living across the world long term.

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All right, Renee is in Miami up next.

What's going on, Renee?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. And uh we are um struggling right

now with deciding if my daughter is going to go to graduate school or not and if the ROI on um you know the fees

and the cost of graduate school is going to benefit her.

>> Very nice. What's she studying?

>> She is studying uh business and entrepreneurship. She's um a great student. She went to a very expensive uh

four years of undergrad that was um all covered with merit scholarships. So, we have that in the pocket. Yeah.

>> Great. Golly, >> she's doing amazing. >> Yeah, that's so awesome. >> So, why the grad degree?

>> Um, she's really liking the classes.

She, you know, to be completely honest, she doesn't have anything lined up yet as far as work goes. Um, so I think it's kind of weighing on her. And I know how early it is. I I have another child that already went through all this, so it's very early. She shouldn't be worried. But I think this is kind of her secondary plan and we're trying to, you

know, we're just trying to weigh the benefits here if this is what she I think she really wants to go. She loves school. She loves >> I'm sure she does. I'd rather go to school than enter the real world, right? I mean, it's >> I'd rather [laughter] kick the cane down the road. Applying for jobs is a real buzzkill. >> That's right. I'd like to go back if I could. >> So, who has the money to pay for grad school? >> So, that will be on her.

>> And how is she going to pay for it with no job? Is is she scholarship? I mean, she's smart, obviously. Is there any programs? >> Yeah, she did get a a merit scholarship for school. Um, which was a surprise. We

didn't know that was coming. Just that just happened this week. We think it's going to be it's a one-year. It's a 10-month program. She's already got a couple classes under her belt for it. So, it's only going to be 10 months. >> Okay. >> They're looking at about 75,000 for the whole thing for the whole year. She got

30 in scholarship. So I can probably

help her with 10. We're we're probably looking at around 30,000.

>> Who's we?

>> Well, as in student loan debt.

>> Me and her. Her and I. Yeah. And student loan debt for the grad program.

She doesn't have any debt >> for any Yeah. She doesn't have any debt for anything undergrad or anything else in their life. >> For someone who loves business, this would be a terrible business plan if I walked into the bank. Hey, listen.

I can't get a job in business after I went to school for four years. I need $30,000 to study more business. I think that's the problem. >> I know.

I know.

rather her take $30,000 and go to Europe and experience culture than go to another year of grad school to hope that a job appears.

>> No. >> What is at the heart of her loving business and entrepreneurship? Does she want to start a business?

>> Yes, she's in the process. So, she really thinks >> why not invest money into the business she wants to start?

Yeah, >> I'd rather you take your 10,000.

>> It's a $30,000 kick the can down the road for 10 months and then what's going to happen, Renee? She's gonna have to apply for jobs 10. I mean, it's a 10 month later. Again, I feel like if not that I might not my answer wouldn't change on the student loan portion, but there's a part of me that's like, okay, a three-year thing, whatever.

You get all these certifica, you get this one thing and it kind of narrows down a path and it gets you like this is just 10 months. Like you could no >> have a grow a baby and have a human in that amount of time. Like do you know what I'm saying? Like it's not that long.

It's very short. So her the same problem and it's her that's going to follow her 10 months later. She's not changing. So to go $30,000 to basically be the same person and have the same problem.

No thank you.

with the fear and the problem of not being able to find a job than go and have that fear and problem not having a job and be $30,000 in debt.

>> I know she's averaging it out in her mind that the undergrad was around 375,000 worth if >> Holy crap. Well, then take that knowledge and go get a job.

>> I'm sorry, but if you can't get a job after all that, then what's the point of anything? I know. >> What did she learn over four years?

>> So, it it's a it's a common thing we see

in this in that um you don't know what

to do next. So, you just go to school and then you make really bad financial decisions and it takes years to get out of this and it's not worth it. That is not worth it because nothing is really going to change in 10 months. >> If she loves textbooks and homework, let's go ahead and buy her a textbook.

But we don't need to go $30,000 in debt to do it. That's the truth. >> Seriously, Rene. She needs to talk to real entrepreneurs and they'll tell you uh you don't need an entrepreneurship degree.

You need tenacity. You need to have a good idea. You need to know how to serve people well to create something called revenue. And so she needs to sink her teeth into that.

So if you want to honestly give your 10 grand to invest in her business idea and you become the bank and you're like, "Hey, I'm willing to invest in this idea because I believe in it." She needs to come up with a business plan >> or even help support her for a few months while she goes and interns somewhere, right? and doesn't get paid, help her there. And then six months later, it's like, okay, now she does have to apply, but now she at least has >> on her resume that actually real business leaders and people actually look at, which is experience, which looks better than a 10-month program.

I mean, honestly, if she if they knew that she was working in a field in that business and being able to plug in, like that to me, >> well, she's going to become what they call overqualified because they're going to go, "Listen, you you have an MBA and you have no job experience. We can't hire you." >> That's my fear. And so, I would rather her go do something, get some experience. Maybe she tries to start her own thing, maybe she ends up being, you know, an executive at a company somewhere.

I don't know. But I just know grad school is not the next step she needs to take. And again, if she had a full ride scholarship and that's what she chose to do, >> that's I mean, to me, that's a different story.

No financial sense to go $30,000 in the hole to to deal with the exact same problem she's going to deal with. And to your point at the very beginning of this call, Renee, which was so wise, you said it. She still has time. I know this is really early because it's not till May. I mean, >> yes. >> Right. >> By the time Oh my gosh.

>> Is she living with you? >> Yeah. >> Um Well, no. She's been, you know, in another state for the last four years.

She's an athlete, too. So, she's got to be up there year round. >> Good for her. [laughter] She sounds awesome. Like, she really does. I just don't want this decision to put her back financially for three to three years, you know, is what it could be.

>> Um, so I think as your as her mom, I think you're really wise and I think you can keep encouraging her to apply. And what's causing it is it sounds like it's more running away from reality because of fear than, oh, I actually really love

this one program and I can't, you know what I mean? Well, I know she loves school, so maybe she does love it, but >> maybe she should work at a school. She loves school so much. >> Yeah, she could get a job at a university.

>> Yeah, she could work at the school for a year and see what they'll pay her. >> Yeah, I don't know if that's what what's driving her. I think it's a little bit of everything. She's just trying to figure it out.

She her brother's got his NBA, you know, so she's like, you know, there's a lot of other little factors there. >> She sounds competitive, too. >> But I do agree. >> Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Yep.

>> She gets that from her mom. [laughter]

>> Probably. >> Well, you raised a great daughter. I'm glad you're calling in with this question. I hope you can convince her.

Do you think she'll be convinced to avoid this? >> Well, because you're not going to you're not signing anything, Renee, as her mom.

>> Do not cosign. If she does this on her own valition, we can't stop her. She's an adult. But I hope that you have influence over her life.

>> Right. I do. And that's exactly it.

We're we're we're right there on that balance beam. And um you know, I think she'd be fine without it. I really do.

So, I'm I'm hoping we can you know, we can just decide to to start working

start working on something else.

>> Work is scary. >> I think that's the smart thing. >> That's a tough one. Especially in this job market. It's not a job market where you just leave college and everyone's knocking on your door to hire you.

>> No. No. It's it takes a lot and you and it's and a lot of who you know Ken Coleman talks about this a lot. Yes.

>> Um who you know the connections mean all of that is a is really big >> matters more than the piece of paper and where you went to school >> and you can't just apply online and they just look at resumes. You usually have to get your foot in the door another way. So [music] it does take some creativity for sure. But she sounds smart. I think she could do it.

>> I hope we we uh talked her off the ledge of grad school for the sake of grad school. If we did that we did one good deed for the day today. Rachel, thank you. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz. Open phones at88255225.

Ashley is in Idaho. Up next, what's going on, Ashley?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, I have a question. I have a daughter

that just turned 21 and she has a horse

and we her parents pay the $400 a month

in boarding.

>> Her gas car George and horses are not a

good >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Keep going, Ashley. I'm preparing your heart. >> This is this is her her life. She's been riding horses since she's been six years old. Um, and

we pay for her insurance, her gas for her car, everything. And we're kind of wondering not to be so mean and tell her, "Hey,

you need to kind of start contributing." Now, the backstory about this is we don't want to be too hard on her because couple years ago, she went through depression. Pardon me, I'm going to start crying. Um, start cutting, self cutting, self harming. >> Oh my goodness. >> Was very, very depressed. Um, >> yeah. So, you want to be sensitive. That makes sense. >> Literally, literally. Yeah. Literally had a plan for suicide.

>> So, this I'm so sorry.

>> Did she get some help? >> The Yeah, she's she's in therapy now.

She hasn't cut in probably 2 years. It was one of those when she was like 15 through 16 just trying to find out who she was >> and confused. And so, we we kind of almost walk on eggshells. >> Yeah.

I say you have PTSD around it probably. I mean, you know, as a parent, you're just like, I don't want to do anything. I mean, we don't want >> Right. >> Exactly.

Yeah.

She's going to be making a lot. >> Did she go to school? What happened after high school for her?

>> Um, she does not go to college. She basically helps give lessons at the barn

with the ma main trainer.

>> How much does she make? >> We never She doesn't make a lot. Um, I

don't know. a couple hundred a month and then she just got a job >> um a second job.

>> Okay. >> And now she should be bringing home close to a thousand a month.

>> So we really feel like she should >> Yeah. >> pay for some of her own. I mean >> what I'm trying to think of like 5 years from now, are we still doing this? Is she still making $1,000 a month at 25 years old >> living with mom and dad? Cuz otherwise we need a totally different plan. Well, we just need a trajectory and it can be baby steps, Ashley, because I totally get your caution around it. Um, because

of your history and what you guys walk through as a family, like that's that's horrible. It's a every parent's worst nightmare, right, of of something like that happening. So, so I can I can totally >> um understand that, but I also think it's two different things. I think helping her become an adult >> is not being mean.

I think it's actually the most loving thing you can do because it actually is going to give her self-confidence. It's going to give her some dignity. It's going to give her a reason to wake up in the morning and be productive. And like these things are good for all of us, right?

We were created to work and to and to make and to be part of society.

how that looks and how that plays out over time, you know, we can talk about, but but that in general, that principle, that's not harmful to her. If anything, that's actually a a gift. And again, if you do it in the right way, right, you we want to be cautious in the sense of like how you handle it with her, and I totally understand that. But but but that avenue is the best thing for her in

general as an adult. So, just hear that.

That's a loving thing. That's not a that's not a mean thing. How do you how do you approach like going about it considering we feel like she's been spoiled her whole life? You know, >> I would start with you guys. Don't make it about her. Say on gas.

>> Say, "Hey, we we really love you and part of that love has caused maybe some enabling. We've covered your expenses.

We wanted to give you a great life. But part of becoming independent means you need to learn how to handle money and contribute on your own. And we're not going to throw you in the deep end. We're not going to say you need to pay all these expenses tomorrow.

But you need to start taking on more responsibility so that you're not 30 years old still not not unsure how to live as an adult >> cuz that's unfair to her. >> Yeah. I like that approach actually.

chose this you know what I mean like this is what you guys implemented. Um, and so I think on that end talking to her of, hey, I I'm sorry that we have

failed you in a sense of how to >> set up your life as an adult. And again, she's 21, so I think there's a lot of grace here. She's not 31, right? If we're talking, I mean, like you you guys have not screwed up as parents by by any means. But I think it is a hey, we want

in the next season, maybe over the next 6 months, we want to start working with you on finding some more income, finding

a schedule that that you know is sufficient as an adult, you know, an 8 to whatever it looks like. >> Um, and then the money you're bringing in, we want to write down a budget and have some things that you're going to start contributing. And again, that can be slowly over time, every two months or something, you know, you add something else in or whatever that looks like. And then eventually a plan Ashley and again I'm not in a rush with this.

apartment >> and we will be with you know every step

of the way in these transitions but starting to make a a year plan I think is really great from November to November. What does that look like? >> Yeah. um from a >> she has a 17-year-old brother and now he's kind of he he's a little bit more of a small number than her but for instance he wanted this winter baseball fan. It was 150 and I feel we have to

give it to him because look we're we're doing your giving your your sister 400 a month for her horse. So yeah, we have to say yes to you now for certain things too. Uh, I wouldn't I wouldn't do the quick I wouldn't do the the tit fortat thing, but I think brother is 17, so he needs a student checking account with a debit card and you guys can put a certain amount of money in that account and he needs to start budgeting his life >> and that he needs to start >> He does. He does.

>> Okay, perfect. That's great. That's a great start. >> Does he have a part-time job?

>> Yeah. >> Uh, yes, he does. He's He's a very hard They're both very very hard worker.

let's find two things that you're going to start paying for cuz we want her to start experiencing real life and it can

still be under your roof for a period of time, which again is a soft place to land, which is great. >> Um, but when she starts to learn these things, then when she goes out on her own, she it's part of who she is. It's how she knows how to do it, right? That's equipping her >> really well, right? How does the horse situation work? If you guys stop making these payments, >> what happens?

>> Are you leasing the horse from someone else? >> No. Um, she bought it. She actually watched mama give birth to her the people at the bar and her family. >> That's a bonding experience right there.

>> Yeah. Like the the expenses for the horse just to keep the horse in good shape is 400 bucks.

>> Well, it's at the barn. All her friends are at the barn and that's that's boarding. Boarding feed. I mean, she works there, too.

>> They should give her a discount. >> Her life. >> They should give her a discount. I know, but her life can't be that forever, Ashley. You know what I'm saying? Some at some point she's going to have to say, "Wow, that makes me really sad. I can't be where all my friends are. I'm going to have to go get a job, right?" Like eventually, that's what's going to >> She does. She does. She just got another um job. >> She needs a full-time job that can support all of the expenses in her life.

That's where we need to get to. >> That's the goal. That's the goal. Otherwise, she needs to go to school and pursue something that can actually pay the bills. So, that's the hard truth that you're going to have to unravel with her over the next several months.

But this idea that we're just going to work part-time at the at the barn, not making enough to even cover the expenses for our horse is not a winning plan.

There's only two types of horse people.

Broke horse people and super wealthy people. And she's about to be a broke horse person for the rest of her life if we don't change this ASAP.

Heat.

[music]

Heat.

All right, [music] let's get to our question of the day. It's brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But Yrefi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your life. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter yfy.comy.

Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Ethan in Ohio. I'm in my mid20s and recently became engaged. My fiance has over $100,000 in student loan debt and since we have lived together for the past year, most of our expenses are joint. My salary is roughly a h 100,000 while hers is 80. I have no debt. So, this $100,000 debt is

the biggest obstacle to building long-term wealth. I also roughly have $100,000 in non-retirement investments.

Should I set aside a percentage of my income to pay off her loans or is it a better option to sell those investments and pay them off? >> Oo, >> good question. >> Well, here's the thing. He's going to be he's going to be upset paying like selling off his investments to pay off her debt. That's going to sting a little bit cuz he worked really hard to invest all this money and have it grow and now it's just wiped away.

Uh, but that's what I would do if you're combining all if you just clear the deck and go, "Okay, now we make $180,000. We have $100,000 in debt, >> and then what do we have on the plus side?" Well, we have $100,000 in >> Yeah. >> investments we could sell. >> That's right.

I mean, at that point, your when you get married, your net worth is combined, you know, and it's like, okay, well, as a household now, we are a negative >> plus 100 minus 100, you're at zero, >> right? So, what do we Yep. So what's the what's the best way to uh go about that and it is to pay off the debt but like you said it stings you know we talk about couples that you become one when you get married and her issues are your issues and your issues are her issues that's financial and otherwise.

Um, but it doesn't come without emotion and it hurting a little bit, but that means that you guys together make $180,000. So, you can build it back so fast, you know? So, that's the good news. >> You can get back there so quickly >> is you have a dual income.

Compound growth will do its thing and one day you'll be multi multi-millionaires looking back at that going, "Oh, yeah. I remember that day.

>> I remember that day." But we did it. But we did it. >> I don't think you'll regret paying off the student loan debt. Uh, now you could try to attack it and keep your investments, but you're just that's going to be a different sacrifice on this side.

So, you just got to choose your hard in this case. And I personally, if you got non-retirement assets, I would just sell it. You'll have some capital gains potentially. Make sure you account for that, but then knock out the debt ASAP.

Thanks for the question, Ethan.

Jordan, what's going on?

>> Hey guys, honor to speak with you today.

Um, I can dive right in. Um, at the beginning of this year, uh, my wife and I were transferred an energy stock about

200 shares. It's valued between 16 and $18,000 depending on what month you look at it. And, uh, wondering how I can best use it to progress through the baby steps. >> Awesome. What baby step are you guys on?

>> We are over the halfway point of baby step to. We've been really going at it this year. Um, so we we have about $40,000 in student loan debt left.

>> Good for you guys. That's great. Yeah.

Do you know how much you'll owe if you sell the stock?

>> I want to say I would need to set around

$2,000 aside to to cover the taxes.

>> Perfect. So, you got about 14 that you could net from this to throw at your debt. What's left? >> 16. See, that's glass half empty. You said between >> He said 16. >> 18. I put 18. [laughter] >> That's Mrs. Optimism.

>> Okay. But you'll Yeah, but you'll have 14 to 16,000 left.

>> Sure. >> To throw out the debt. Yeah. And what's left on the balance?

>> On the balance of the debt? >> Yeah. >> 40,000. >> We Yeah, we owe about $40,000 left in student loans. >> Um, how much do you guys make a year?

>> Our household gross is about $148,000.

>> Oh, awesome. Okay, great.

>> So, this debt's going to be gone fast no matter what. This the selling of the stock just kind of helps expedite that.

>> That's kind of how I'm looking at it. maybe, you know, I can use this to progress faster through one of the next baby steps, whether it's two or three, you know, u just trying to find the best way because it it is an energy stock, so I've kind of seen it, you know, go up and go down.

off in our debt, or is it best to just use that and set it aside as our uh down payment for a house or our emergency fund? Um, considering its value,

>> I would still do what exactly what we said and I'd sell it today cuz we just don't know what the future holds. And you're going to be heartbroken if the stock suddenly takes a dip and you go, "Oh my gosh, now it's only 10,000. What do we do now? Do we keep waiting? Do we keep waiting? We try to time the market." So, I don't do single stocks for that reason. I just already have too much anxiety about other things in life.

So, I stick to mutual funds and index funds, giant groups of stocks. And likely that energy stock, if it's any good, is probably, you know, somewhere in the mix. It's just not all your eggs in one basket. >> Yeah. Um, how much extra a month, Jordan, do you guys have going towards paying off debt?

>> We set aside in total about $3,000 a

month. Um, and put that toward debt. I think our minimum payments right now add up to about $500. Honestly, I hardly pay attention to the minimum payments anymore.

I just throw whatever I can at it. So, um, but yeah, about a little over a third of our takehome goes toward our debt. >> That's great. Yeah, it' be about more eight more months if you guys just threw, you know, all of this at the debt.

Um, which is I mean, gosh, that's what June by summer, y'all. And then >> debtree by summer. >> And then keep that keep that momentum of that 3,000 going into an emergency fund, you know, and by this time next year, you guys could be on to baby step four and start back investing, which is really exciting. So, to George's point, yeah, that would be fantastic.

Yeah, the single stock regardless even if you didn't have debt and you're like, I have the single stock. We'd probably say go ahead and cash it out and move it into an index fund anyways. Um, so I would get I would get rid of it regardless of your situation, but it's even better that when you get rid of it, you can actually apply it to your life today and get you guys jump started, which will probably be a breath of fresh air because you guys have been grinding to get out of debt. So, it kind of feels nice to get a big jump start, >> just skip a few levels.

How many uh debts would you knock out if you threw 14,000 at it?

>> 14,000. So, it's the the student loan debt. We actually just paid off my wife's student loan debt last week, which was awesome. So, it's just my student loan debt.

Half of it is federal and half of it is private and the 14 to 16 would would likely uh knock out the rest of my private student loans. So, we would be down to just my federal. >> Oh, that's awesome. >> Well, then it frees up some payments to apply to the next ones.

>> That's great. Okay, let's get to Sarah in Denver. What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hi there. Um, I am My main question is,

so I owe about 15,000 on my car loan

currently. Um, and my husband and I, uh,

we've been, you know, patting our, um, emergency fund. Um, so we have about 16,000 in our emergency fund right now.

Um, we actually just found out that we are now expecting. Um, that was just last night. Oh my gosh. Well, early

congratulations, Sarah. Are we the first to know? >> Thank you. [clears throat] Um, you guys are the second to know. >> Oh, I knew we were probably high up on the list. >> That's a win. >> Thanks. Thanks for letting us in there.

[laughter] >> Absolutely. Um, >> you and so you have the money saved to pay off the car, but you guys just found out you're pregnant, and so I'm assuming you're probably a little nervous to do that. >> I'm super nervous. Um, I'm actually really terrified to, you know, just throw it at that debt. Um, my vehicle is not the only one that we have. Um, my husband currently has a truck also. Um, so we're paying his down as well. I think he owes about 25 on it. Um, but

we're throwing all that we can at the debt right now. Um, I'm just wondering, do I use my emergency savings? Um, or do

I just continue making the minimum payments and then just throw whatever extra I can. >> Um, how much do you guys make a year?

Um, combined we make about 120.

>> 120. Okay. >> What's the payment on your car?

>> Uh, 3.82.

>> Okay. So, you'll free up about 400 bucks, >> which is, you know, that's five grand right there if you just pay it off a year from now. You have five grand in that account and you make 120. So, the question is, could you guys pay off both cars and have a fully funded emergency fund by the time baby's here?

>> Um, I mean, I think so. Um, as of right now, it is, um, our due date is expected in July. >> Okay. I'd start crunching some numbers.

If you want to pause, we call it stork mode where you kind of pause the baby steps to stack up cash if you don't have any. But, >> but you guys have the cash. >> But if you have the cash already, now we're just going to attack the debt. Then you're kind of already there.

So, I would also look at your health insurance, look at your out-of- pocket max, your deductibles, get a full picture of what it would really cost if you had to like go all in on the medical stuff. And that'll give you a little bit of peace in the chaos. But congratulations. How >> you appreciate it.

>> Yeah, we're rooting for you guys. And maybe he sells the truck. If you want to expedite this, you got a baby on the way. Let's speed things up.

Life is happening.

[music]

>> [music] >> Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. With a Ramsy trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with sleazy businesses or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. So go to ramseyolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. James is in Manchester, New Hampshire up next.

>> Hi, taking my call. >> Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

>> All right. So, so I'm 19 years old. I currently make about $150,000 a year. Um

I have $60,000 saved, 20,000 of which is invested into retirement accounts. Um but my question is today is that I'm interested in buying a house or a multif family unit next year. But but I'm honestly not sure if that's what's recommended to me since I'm so young. I see on other Dave Ramsey videos it's 5050 split between whether they're okay with younger people. What do you do for work to make 150,000 at 19?

>> Uh, so this is honestly, you can't believe it, but I'm a I'm a casino dealer, so I deal high stakes blackjack and high stakes poker games for a living

>> myself. I keep all my tips.

>> No, I a dealer >> in Manchester, New Hampshire.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well done. >> I was unaware that there was a big casino uh ring over in New Hampshire.

>> All right. Yeah, it's um >> how stable is this?

>> Like, is this what you want to do long term?

>> So, that that's one thing. Um it's it's

stable in that I'm basically guaranteed $100,000 a year, but my income uh like

monthtomonth varies quite a bit, but uh for the most part, yeah, this is what I want to do for a career.

>> For the most part. Okay. So, you see yourself, you're 35 years old, you're dealing at a casino.

Well, hopefully I'll be financially well off enough to um be doing what I want by

the time I'm 35. >> That's that's my question is what is the thing you want? Because I want to make sure that this money shouldn't be used to fund education or an investment in a business before we just lock it up in a home just because you you feel like a home is the next step.

>> Honestly, I am very passionate about it.

Um and I really haven't ever thought about going to school thanks in particular. Okay, there's nothing wrong with renting. There's nothing that says in this situation where I'm going, "Wow, you really should get a house. You're 19 and you got money." I would just pause and get a house when it makes sense for you cuz you're renting right now on your own or what? Or living at home?

>> I'm I'm blessed enough to be living at home still. >> Okay. So, you got no expenses. There's nothing wrong with just stacking cash, live at home for now.

And then once you're kind of out of that uh this phase where you kind of know that you know and you're you know 21 maybe then we go okay I'm going to go rent on my own. I've got $300,000. >> You think making 150 a year you should still stay at home. >> You could go rent tomorrow.

You could rent yesterday. You make more than most adults in the US.

>> Yes. >> Are they like dude pay rent? You like you make way too much.

>> Yeah. I pay them $1,000 a month in rent.

>> Oh, well then just go pay a th000 go rent somewhere. >> I almost would go move out, James, since just from what you're making. Um,

>> and you're a very mature dude who knows his stuff and very entrepreneurial. >> Yeah. So, what I would say, James, is I would not be in a rush to buy a home. I would I think you've done an incredible job saving and I would continue to do that and maybe just wait 2, three years.

I don't know. Um, I'm kind of making up that timeline. and just to kind of see from a career standpoint where you want to be and if it still looks like okay in the near future this is probably where I'm going to be is this area then I probably would buy um but I just don't want something coming up in the next one two 3 years that for

some reason you cannot take an opportunity because you've just bought this home if that makes sense.

>> Okay. >> And I wouldn't just get a duplex and house hack because you know Tik Tok said it's a cool thing to do. Um, so I just don't want you jumping on it just because it sounds good. I want you to do it because it's the right move for your future.

>> Okay. Thank you. That's why I called you guys. >> Absolutely, man. Happy to help. >> Yeah. Well done, James. >> Yeah, I'm impressed. Yeah. A lot of people go, "I can do the duplex and I can." But he doesn't need it. He makes great money. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's not worth the $700 a month from a renter, >> right, >> to have them next door. So, I would just >> live your life and figure out what that next thing is. >> All right. Thomas is in Seattle up next.

What's going on, Thomas?

>> Hey guys. Um, I am recently married and

my wife and I are trying to combine our finances and I just found out she has a condo with a tenant and the tenant isn't currently currently covering all the costs of the condo. And so I want to approach a conversation with her about potentially getting out of this condo just because it's not a great situation for us. Um, but I'm concerned because obviously we're newly weds. I don't want to feel like I'm overstepping or anything like that. How did you just find out that she has a condo?

>> Well, I I I didn't just [clears throat] find out. I knew she has a condo, but I didn't know the exact numbers of everything. So, I'm just finding those numbers. >> You didn't knew it was like a dumpster fire that she's losing money on. But you knew before you got married, hey, she has this property over here. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what's the math ending up being, Thomas? Like, what is she charging for rent? And then how much is she having to pay?

>> Yeah. So, she's charging uh $12.91 a

month for rent. Um, and she's short about $312 and that's roughly um, well, not $312,

it's roughly $200, but that's primarily HOA fee she's paying out of pocket.

>> And what's the market rate for that condo?

>> Um, >> is she undercharging on purpose?

>> Well, >> no, she Well, yes, she is undercharging on purpose. >> Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment a month on this? Uh the mortgage

payment is uh $1,171 a month.

>> Okay. Yeah. So she's barely

>> she's not breaking. I mean >> and that's without maintenance, repairs, vacancy, taking all that in consideration. >> Why is she undercharging again? What did you Why did you say she is?

>> The per the tenant who's renting from her is in uh she said she she's in a tough situation. So she doesn't want to um increase the rent.

>> Okay. But this person can't afford to live there. So they need to be evicted if they can't pay rent. They need to go find somewhere they can afford to live,

>> right? And that's sort of why I want to approach the conversation of selling. >> If she's into charity, let her give to a charity. But this is not the way to do it.

>> And I would be okay with it, Thomas, for like a period of time. But usually these situations are ongoing and then she's going to look up in three years and is not able to up the rent because this person that she is being generous to now is staying. And she's like, "Oh gosh, now if I up the rent in 3 years, how much more? They're for sure going to have to move out." Like at some point this person's not going to be able to afford to live there.

Is what I'm assuming. >> Yeah. >> So, it's kind of like, >> you think about it. >> Yeah.

wife looks up and she's like, "Oh my gosh, I can't even." Yeah. I mean, it it doesn't make mathematical sense. Um, so

she either needs to have a conversation with the tenant, which is probably going to be hard to do, and she may not want to do that. Um, but even I would possibly sell. Do you guys have a lot of consumer debt?

>> We do. Yeah.

Yeah, we do. >> Okay. How much would the condo How much does she owe on it? And how much could she sell it for?

>> Um, I don't exactly know what she owes on it, but she bought it three years ago for 195,000. I looked on Zillow today and it looks like it's roughly worth 177,000. So, I think she's underwater on it. >> Oh boy. Does she have any equity in it?

>> Um I I can't I wouldn't I wouldn't imagine a lot. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would find out the balance. I would I mean, you guys are married. I would run through all these numbers and and go, hey, based on what we're looking for for financial financial future, which is to become debtree and have our own financial stability, it would be wise to sell this condo >> cuz right now you're losing money on it.

So even if you sold it and broke even, it would still be a net win for you guys. >> Yeah. But yeah, so I I probably wouldn't have a second property if you guys have a lot of consumer debt anyways. But on top of that, she's she's not charging enough to make it make sense. And it's not even like she's, you know, it's it like there there's a there's a formula out there where it makes sense, right?

If she's charging market rate and she's making a little bit on the side, I'd probably still sell it. But all that say that would at least make financial sense. This makes double no financial sense. >> And even if she breaks even, she's still losing money when you factor in all the maintenance and repairs and vacancies.

So, we need to get out of this. And you have the, you know, you have some influence now being the husband to go, "Hey, this does not make sense. It's moving us backwards financially. we're trying to move forwards and this is one step of that.

>> Yeah. And it could be a kind conversation. I mean, you guys can go into it and just be curious. Ask her some questions.

Like, hey, you know, this is kind of what I'm seeing. Like, help me make sense of what you're thinking and and we just want to be on the same page financially. Like, that's the main goal.

Um, but I think yeah, you can be kind.

George would probably be like, "Here's the number. We're selling it tomorrow. We're selling it tomorrow. I'm calling an agent.

>> [music]

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[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Jeremiah 29:13. You will seek me and find me when

you seek me with all your heart. Abraham Lincoln said, "You have to do your own growing no matter how tall your grandfather was." Ain't that the truth.

>> There you go. >> Wish I could keep growing.

>> Be nice. Lynn is in Eugene, Oregon. Up

next. What's going on, Lynn?

>> Hi. Um, I'm 75. I quit my job to take

care of my mother who had dementia the last seven years. >> Oh, wow. And yeah, it it was I'm glad

that I did it. >> Um but I find that um and I did get an

inheritance. Um when I was caring for her, she had money invested um and it

was bringing in 1,200 a month and then we had her social security and then my social security of 155. And so now that she's passed, um, I

have inherited half of what was invested, which is, uh, 1,000, sorry,

105,000.

I've never invested before. I'm very frugal. I I began tithing when I read the Bible and became a believer 47 years ago. And I I'm a weirdo, I suppose, as

far as I've counted on God for things, and there have been miraculous provisions, like an inheritance that paid off my house a year before my husband left me and my seven kids. So, I

kind of I've and I've always worked.

I've never depended on others. And I mean, there have been gifts of love occasionally through the years. But my point is this. It's hard for me to um to

ask for like wisdom. I mean, I'm asking for wisdom. I need it because I've never invested. To me, it's always looked like gambling.

But I recognized that the the income actually that was important as I was caring for mom was coming from her investment. >> And so that was a certainly a good

indicator to me that it does work and your money doesn't get gambled away. It was because that's what it's always felt like when I look at it.

>> Feels risky to you. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Very. And being I am 75 and I

didn't I I became rather sedentary caring for my mother >> and so I'm not in the best shape. right now I don't really want to go back into the workforce again if it's possible I understand it may have to happen. So my question is, do you have any recommendation as to what you would

think would be best for my present uh

situation as far as to bring in some income from my inheritance or should I just I mean I figured out I need past my

income. I laid out all my expenses and

>> Yeah. What are your monthly expenses?

>> My monthly expenses are 2,417

a month including tithe. I'm very blessed to pay a very low rent of a,045

a month and then I have storage. So um and just regular paying for my Wi-Fi paying for my car insurance. >> Okay. So 2500 a month covers you comfortably. >> It does. >> And you have a,55 coming from social security. >> Yes. >> And no other money, no other assets other than 100 grand from this inheritance.

>> Right. Well, I actually I have I have I

saved uh myself 16,000,

but I had used Anyway, I >> Is that your savings essentially? Your emergency fund 16,000. Okay. So, we won't touch that. We're not going to count that in the income side. We need to protect that. >> So, you're really asking, I make 12 grand a year. I need to make, you know, you need an extra 1,500 bucks. And so, can we squeeze 1,500 bucks a month out of a h 100red,000?

>> Not not for a long time. I mean, how old was your mother? >> She was 93. >> So, let's assume you go to 93 at the

very least, right? That's >> Yeah, >> we need >> We'll give you 95. We'll go 20 20 years.

>> Rachel's very generous. So, 95. We need to make a 100 grand work for 20 years.

>> That's the math on that is tough.

>> Yeah, it is. >> Even invested aggressively, I don't know that you could make that last without running out of money. So, I do think it would be wise to find work that you can do as long as your body allows you to do it and make as much as you can, >> right? Yeah, I think I'm I'm gearing up

for that. Um, for sure.

>> Is there What would you do, Lynn? In a perfect world, >> what sounds lifegiving to you?

>> Well, I I wrote one book. It was of my first 50 years of life, uh, raising 10 children, uh, becoming a believer through reading the Bible when I was 28.

all the supernatural things God did. Uh my husband leaving us with when after 27 years of marriage. Um and and it was well received by the people who read it but not gotten much reading reading. But writing is my love and I still have another 25 years. I'd love to write more about how he has done so many awesome God has done so many awesome things >> through being in youth with a mission with my five youngest.

Yeah. And >> I just wonder with that gift of writing um and you may have to be a little flexible on topic or whatnot, but you know, the ideal world for me for you would be to do something that you love, that you're good at, that you're passionate about, and you can make some money. And the good thing is, Lynn, you know, you don't have to be making a ton, right? I'm like, you know, even if you're making >> golly two grand a month, you'll be fine.

But but but to George's point earlier,

the more you make, even if it's above what you need, could be put away with that 100 grand. So that when in 10 years

or in five years, >> you are able then to slow back and live off those investments, right? So um >> right now the goal is to not touch that 100 grand. That feels like your worst case scenario because truthfully, you could probably live off that for six years and then it's gone. That's what I figured already. >> Even if it's invested, yeah, you could make a little more, but it's 100,000.

It's not a million. So, even invested, if you're making 10% instead of 4%, it's 4 grand versus 10 grand. It's still not enough to cover our bills forever. And so, you're going to need to get support elsewhere from working, maybe even from the kids.

You have 10 kids. Are they Do you have a relationship with them? Would they be willing to >> All of them? Yeah.

>> Like, everyone put in a hundred bucks and let's help mom >> that I don't know. I don't know. They're all Most of them are homeowners. Some have rentals, but they have to ask rent higher than I can pay.

one has already given me their gas card

uh after my mom died and said, "Please use this. We want you to let us pay for your gas from now on." >> That's sweet. >> Very kind. Very, very kind.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I think Lynn, um yeah, I do think work is in your future. Um and again finding something that you can do

um ideally again for the in towards you know the fact you're 75 million I would love for you to be at a job that you >> something you enjoy doesn't have to be something miserable >> but we do need to be making some income and the more income you can find even though you um you're so humble and so

grateful. I can hear it in your voice.

You may feel like I don't need that much. But just remember, if you're making extra, that's money being put away so that you don't have to work hopefully um for the rest of your life, right? That you can be living off some of these investments, too. So, I think that's the goal. But, um >> it might be worth getting a third opinion from a financial advisor, Lyn.

So, if you want to jump on ramies.com and click on Smart Investor Pro, they can just crunch the numbers for you and go, "Hey, here's if you did this, here's how much money you could make with this investment. If you put it over here, here's potentially how much you could make in the market if you put it over here. And at least they can run that to show you you got the best shot if you do XYZ to let this money last as long as possible.

>> Yes. >> But that's tough. And I think it's a you know it's a good point that she made that a lot of people we've taken a few calls I feel like today about this of the caution around investing. Um so

whether it's people are nervous and it's usually the older people we talk to the more cautious they get which makes sense because you're like okay I have I don't want to lose this money. >> It feels overwhelming. >> Yes. So just remembering you guys to focus on the facts when it comes to money is so important.

Especially that side of looking at what really has happened when you put money in the market. And that's what you have to bank on, right? You have to focus on the facts, not this idea of what could happen one day.

That was >> Oh, yeah. I took that call. That was a wild one. And a good reminder that social security is not going to be enough. It was never meant to be enough.

It was meant to cover a portion of your salary, but in this situation, as we can see, a thousand bucks, it's a nice start, but it's not going to cover all the bills. And so, do not rely on social security as your income and retirement.

You've got to stack up your own nest egg. And that's through investments in the stock market, through mutual funds and index funds. And if anybody listening wants a guide on how to do it the Ramsay way, in a wise way without falling on your face, you can go to ramseyolutions.com/guide.

We've got a free investing guide that walks you through all of this and it's a great resource regardless of your age to learn cuz we tell you don't invest in anything you don't understand but it's still your job to learn it and understand it. So go check that out as well. [music] That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to [music] walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 39. Don't Get Pulled Into the Gravitational Pull of Drama | February 24, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:43:48 |

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Normal is [music] broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw is my co-host today, Ramsey personality number one best-selling [music] author. Our phone number here is 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Shawn is in Fargo, North Dakota. Hey Shawn, what's up in your world?

Oh, not much, Dave. Just enjoying my life. Good. How can we help?

So, I am kind of stressed out right now

in a little It's kind of in a pickle, feels like, with my family.

They are, give or take, five to six million dollars in their family business debt.

And I am struggling to

um struggling like to cope with like my dad is in failing

health and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that his business has.

Okay. Do you work there?

Uh part-time. Okay. Cuz I can't I can't

handle full-time there.

Can't handle it. What do you mean? Him?

You can't handle him?

No, just the ide- ideology he has in the

business dealings. Okay.

So, why is it bringing you stress?

You're a part-time job with a business that's in trouble.

And with a guy whose ideology you don't agree with. Why would that be cause you to be stressful? I will be most likely be inheriting it with my three brothers, the business, which is probably worth around $10 million. Mhm.

And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the like the business side of it to pretty much be full-time.

When are you supposed to do that? >> And um probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

I'm so confused. Okay.

Um Yeah, I mean, so you're going to be part-time with a guy you disagree with while he runs the business in the ground for the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Yeah. Why don't you just say I don't want it? >> Yeah.

I don't I don't want it. Cuz so like I mean, it's a good Oh, I shouldn't say a good business.

But is it really worth cuz he tries to get

me to go full-time like almost weekly on a weekly basis.

Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things. So, it makes sense that >> here sounds like something I want to do.

Why would you want to do this?

Yeah. So, is it So, I guess I want to

ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, "Yo, we shouldn't start taking out this debt." Or because they're thinking about adding another Who's they?

>> $1.5 million debt. My my family. Your brothers.

Yeah, my brothers. >> Who are your future partners? >> another million dollars in the debt. >> Who are your future Who are your future partners? I All my brothers. Yeah, but you said it You're saying your brothers are dumb as your dad. You said it before yourself, uh Shawn. You said their ideologies completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that that that's the case and you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology.

And so, if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part-time. What do you do for a living?

I operate heavy equipment. All right.

Are you a Are you the baby of the family?

No, no, I'm not. Second No, I'm not the third oldest. Middle, okay. All right.

Yeah, um well, here here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change. Do you?

No, I don't. I Okay. So, you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bull crap.

Yeah, that's one way to put it.

>> I mean, you really do. You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be. If it's me, I'm going to let them have it. I'm going to walk away. Uh-huh. This sounds like a bear trap. Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off.

It's going to The next 10 years of your life are going to be pure freaking misery till the old man dies and then when he dies, now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers. No, thank you. I don't want in this.

For sure, for sure. Yeah, I just I I

there's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be.

This all sounds like misery.

And there's not enough money there to fool with. Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing.

Yeah. And you don't believe that. You're still You think your your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars and you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debts what you're walking away from.

So, >> years? >> I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the dad and say, "Guys, I don't I'm I'm uncomfortable with this much debt and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt cuz it makes me uncomfortable.

And I can love you, and if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son, we can still be brothers, I can still love you. Yeah. But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it.

And so, if you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddle bags.

Clearly easier said than done. Cuz you're going to have basically your whole family on this side, and you're the Lone Ranger over here. That's not easy, but I I agree 100%.

>> Well, the thing is, you put her by on notice, and a 100% chance they're not going to do it. >> No. >> And so, you're basically saying, "Here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life over here, and I'm going to love you." I've got family members, most of my family members don't do the stuff I teach. >> [laughter] >> But I'm not in a I'm not in a deal with them, either. And I still love them.

Some of them even vote wrong, and I still love them. But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them, and it doesn't mean I have to you sit around and be stressed, and I'm like somehow guilted into joining something I completely disagree with. No, walk away from it, son. It ain't worth it.

You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation. Yeah, that's >> Without any debt. That's probably the other part of it is there's the a lure that maybe there's like that bit maybe

just possibly one day it could be good, then you look back, and you're like, "Man, I should have stayed part of it, right?" He's probably thinking about that little one one or two percent.

Yeah. It's like, "I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it don't bite." What did I do? They bite. You know, it's dumb. You're just asking for it. Don't think they're going to change. They don't They only do how to do one thing, and that's bite. So, don't don't be shocked when they bite. I mean, it's just your dad, this is what he does.

It's It's just a predictable environment. >> Yeah. And he he didn't hide it. He's not sure He just said, "This is who I am." Yeah, that's right. >> kind of said, "Like it or lump it." So, I'd lump it. That's what I do. I mean, you know, it it's just it's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when all the family ties it feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

Yes.

A gravitational pull. Yes, drama has a gravitational pull. I've noticed that.

Drama. Drama, family drama will suck you

in and eat your life.

Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it, just for the fun of it. Yeah. I

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Nicole is in Atlanta. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Good. What's up?

Um so, me and my husband live in an apartment and we're trying to decide if we should move to a bigger space because we do have two three kids. So, two are five-year-old twins and then a two-year-old baby girl. So, um last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we have $62,000 worth of student loan debt left.

Um and we were going to use we've been using mostly like our overage, which is about $1,100 um that we have a month to put towards our debt. And then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it just in and out. So, we're trying to see we want them to you know have a space to have a yard and like just more space. It's a little bit cramped up um with all five of us here.

So, we were just wondering if we should stay or if we should kind of go.

What are you guys earning between the two of you right now? Um gross would be 103,000. Okay.

The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how much margin you have to throw out this debt, which means there's going to be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long-term that's going to affect your ability to build wealth.

For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go whole-wholeheartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you. You're not even talking about home ownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, we were actually like looking to our rent is 2,200.

>> Mhm. And so we were wanting to rent like thinking about 2,500 but that doesn't include like gas and utility. I'm sorry, you know, the increase in utility >> Yeah. Yeah, so we just don't know if that's going to be leaving us with a lot. >> 400 instead of 1,000. How much How much debt have you paid off so far?

Uh 36,000 with the vehicle. And how long did that take?

Uh that took us 2 years. Okay. Making 130,000.

Uh 103,000 a year.

>> 103,000 Yeah. So, you guys suck at this so far, Nicole.

We suck. >> Yeah. $18,000 making 100 grand per year

is not enough debt reduction.

You guys are You're still out You're still going out to eat. You're still going on vacation. You're still spending money. You're still not on a tight budget.

And And so you made a little progress, but you should have made a lot more progress. If you told me you paid off 36,000 in 6 months, see, then I can take that number and go, "Oh, wait a minute.

Yeah. That ain't cool. >> That's true. That ain't cool.

>> Great, that's how we feel. Yeah, we got to We got to not get stuck in that. And if you feel like you're never going to get out, then you just say, "Well, the heck with it. I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard." And you know, you give up you're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress.

And so, I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan if I'm you. I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, "Look, we did a little bit here, and we didn't do a bad thing, but we really weren't It wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here.

Not renting one. Yeah, I I I But what you're talking about is a five-year plan, and you won't even make it.

I agree. I I If you can have these kids

They're young right now, right? They're 5 years old, 3 years old.

Now's the time that they can be squished, and they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I for one would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay off the debt. >> if they're squished and their life is miserable for 1 year, >> They'll be fine.

that's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life. >> You want to know what though? I I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in, and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids. Yeah, nobody told us we were >> Nobody told us we were squished.

No. We were, but nobody told us we were. It was a 1,000 square foot brick ranch.

And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say, "Go play in the traffic." And they You know >> didn't have to go in. like Yeah, just play outside all the time.

You tell >> your kids to go play in the traffic? You don't tell your kids >> tell them to play in traffic. I just TELL [laughter] THEM TO MY MOTHER would say that all the time. Go play in the traffic. Get out of my Get out from under my feet.

Yes. [laughter] That's what caused me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Hey Dustin, what's up?

Hi. Um so, I'll get right into it. Uh my dad incurred about $30,000 in debt. Uh he has no retirement. His only income is his social security.

Uh he now has dementia and my brother and I are left uh kind of trying to manage this for him.

Um he's currently being sued on one credit card for 8,000 and he owes 13,000

on another credit card. And I guess my question is should we try and settle this with them? And my brother and I would have >> No. No assets. Well, how would he settle it? I essentially my brother and I would have to help him out in that. >> Why? Why would you do that? Just tell them tell the credit card company to bite me. He has no money. He has nothing to give. They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right?

Uh yeah, he has nothing. It's only social security and I don't believe they can touch that. >> They can't touch that. Does he own a home? No. No. He does not have any money in his bank account except the social security.

Yeah, it would it would just be for me and my brother to have one less thing to to have to deal with. >> I wouldn't deal with it at all. I got one less thing. I'm just going to show them the smallest finger on my left hand and say that's all you get, nothing. Are they calling you?

Uh no. No.

I just tell them to you know, tell them jump in a creek. You shouldn't have allowed to loan money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

Okay. And should I uh should I offer to have them sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorney fees or >> tell Who cares? They're not going to get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say if you want to talk to them, call them up and just say this. Say, I want you to make a note in the file. He has advanced dementia and zero assets.

We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off cuz you're not getting a dime." Okay. And I just real simple, I mean, let's pretend he had passed away.

Okay? I just send them a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let them know and and let them know that there's not a there's no estate. And then then after that I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons.

Yeah, none of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

Uh no, yeah, I'm I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt and I Yeah, I am not responsible for that. So. It's just sad and it's sad it's one of those part It's a sad uh sub chapter, sub

paragraph in this overall sad story that you're dealing with, but what I would do is just say, "I'm not going to worry about it at all." And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could, but I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations.

And I'm not going to give them a dime.

There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money.

Yeah. I agree. And it's it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that and um

you know, I've run into situations like that in my life. Dustin, how old are you? Uh 44. Yeah, I've run into situations like that and what I do is I say, "Okay,

>> [sighs] >> I got to help my dad out." Uh in your case, this is what you're saying. "I got to help my dad out and this is a sad situation. And so what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this." Right.

I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way.

It's like, you know, I I I was working for a guy one time, he goes, "I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own in St.

Thomas." >> Come on now. So, I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's cuz they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them. That's right.

And so you look at this and you go he's got no assets, he's got dementia, and the only positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for him. Other than that, this guy's a pauper, [music] we would use old language, but it's very sad. And so take it as a lesson to go I'm never, you know, and then you teach your kids.

We're shifting it. I know, that's right.

So take a lesson from it at least. At least get that out of it. But no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. >> [music] >> Not a dime.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Neil is in Birmingham. Hi Neil, how are you? Hey hey, I'm very blessed to be speaking with you and Jade Dave. Thank you. How can we help? Uh yes, sir. So, my wife and I are working on baby step four and six. We are both nervous about a retirement and

working with a financial planner with our advisor. We've never worked with one before, but we both grew up in households with pensions, but no nest egg to fall back on.

>> Mhm. And so, we're really nervous about

the future. Neither one of us want to retire poor. Good for you.

Well, the what you don't want from an advisor, I'm not sure why you're nervous. I want to hear that in a minute. But what you don't want is from

an advisor is arrogance

or looking dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and shaming or telling you what you need to do.

These are all warning signs that you run from, that you should be nervous about.

When you sit down with a good advisor,

they should be teaching you

and saying, "This is how this thing works and this is why I personally use

it and this is why Dave Ramsey recommends this and here's how it works." And you say, "Well, I don't understand." Okay, well, let me try let me teach you another way. Well, I still don't understand. Okay, then you're your job is to teach me and then I

will decide. I kind of think of it this way. I think about sometimes I go into a nice restaurant and we ask the waiter,

you know, "What what's the best thing in here?" You ever done that? >> Mhm. Yes, sir. And I don't always get what they suggest cuz sometimes what they suggest, I don't like.

Well, we we've been doing it on our own for several years. >> over to them. I just listen to them and then I make my choice.

>> Yes, sir. So, we we've been doing it on our own for for several years. We we basically started putting in 15% I guess about five or six years ago after we finally were able to. And so, we we're trying to we're playing catch-up cuz we are we are in our 50s now. And so, we're trying to play catch-up. And so, but we our our 401k's not doing not not kicking out the percentages that we hear on the show

that like that that the S&P did last year. Yeah. And everything. And so, when but we have talked to a couple of financial people. Some of them are out of state. We don't know the ins and outs of working with somebody out of state.

We don't know how that works. We don't know how that works.

>> Okay. See, that's what me and my wife thought, but we were basically told by somebody we were old school. That that's the old way of thinking. That Somebody's always got an opinion about your money.

Have you noticed that?

>> Oh, yes, sir. Yeah, so what I did listen, if you just go to Ramsey Solutions, you click on SmartVestor Pro, you'll find several people in Birmingham that we recommend and we don't recommend them if they don't have the heart of a teacher and they don't agree with the stuff we teach here on the air. And so, that's a baseline and then you sit down and interview them and say, "Would I hire this person as my tutor, as my teacher?"

Okay. So, so we're kind of nervous when when we were with a SmartVestor Pro, but should we be willing to turn over our money to them? I don't I don't know. We don't know how that works. A lot of it Well, your 401k, you can't turn over.

You have to leave it at your workplace.

They can look at it for you and say, "Go back over to work." And that's a choice you could make right there that'd make you more That one that that particular fund outperformed the S&P. The three you got didn't." They can help you look at that, but they can't manage it. By turning it over, all it is is you're setting the the stuff under their management, but they're not going to do anything without you telling them what to do. I got you.

They're not authorized to do trades.

They're not authorized to do anything unless you tell them to do it.

Okay. Okay, that's see that's something we didn't know. We didn't know when we do it, do we just have to turn everything over to them? >> I would I would put everything on the table and let them look at the whole picture.

But I'm not going to lose control of it.

I don't lose control of anything. See, when I hire a lawyer some lawyers get confused. They think they get to tell you what to do. And I'm like, no, you work for me.

You work for me. You tell You tell me what the situation is and then I will decide based on the information you teach me about this particular law, about this particular situation, what I am going to do. And then I'm going to tell you what to do.

Exactly. [laughter] That's You don't You just don't want You want to keep in control as to who's in charge here. You know what I'm saying? Oh, yes, sir. I completely understand. We're We're in our Like I said, I'm I'm 52, so we're going down the track here getting closer to Well, all you're doing is saying I probably can make my money work harder with someone who plays with money all day long teaching me.

Yes, sir. That's all it is. And that's Okay. That's all it is. Well, that's what Yes, sir. That's what we will do then. That's where just We don't want to retire poor. You're not.

>> That's the biggest thing we're nervous about. You're You're not You're not going to retire poor. You're going to retire rich. I can tell just by talking to you. Because you're freaking paying attention.

People that retire poor don't bother to look at it.

Well, unfortunately, I think we look at it every day. Well, see, you're you're getting all twisted up, man. You need to [laughter] Get you a plan, write the plan, and have a little peace in your finances. But yeah, that that's

It do It does It takes um I think not knowing is what kills you.

100% The fact that I can already tell that guy's quite frugal just by listening. Yeah, for sure. >> Uh they're doing the right thing and it's okay. Everybody Everybody has their moment at different times in life where they they wake up and they go, "Oh crap, I got to get my money together." And so for some of us it's a little later down the line, but once to your point, once you start paying attention, there is time to make things right, especially if you're doing the Ramsey plan.

Chloe's in Orlando. Hi Chloe.

Hi, I'm great. Hi Dave and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

All right, so my fiance and I are getting married at the end of this year in October. >> Great. He He has quite a bit of money saved, but we also have debt and we're also trying to save for a wedding. So we kind of need some help figuring out how

to go about this. >> Cool. How much do you have saved?

In total liquid saved, Mhm. we have

123,000.

>> Awesome. Who's we? Wait a minute. Who How much does he have? How much do you have? He has Okay, let me start with me. I have only

about 2,000. Him and I together created

a savings account that is about 22,000.

And he has the rest, which would probably be about 100,000. Okay.

>> Okay. And and and the 22,000 I'm guessing is for I hope you're saving for the wedding. That's correct. >> Okay. And what are you planning to spend on the wedding?

45,000.

Are there any family members helping out?

Yes, we have um my parents are giving us 10,000 and then

he has an uncle that has given him 10,000 as well. Okay, that's 42. So that's 42. So you're there.

>> And what is your What is your household What is your income and what is his income?

Um his income is a take home around 96,

a little bit more with bonuses, and then mine's I just put myself on salary. I do have um my own business, but on salary I take home >> I don't care what your salary is. What's your income?

What is the business profit going to be this year?

Oh, um probably 80,000.

>> Okay. All right, so you got a a $200,000 income between you if you were to be married today. You have 22,000 plus you have pledges to get you up to 45,000 for your wedding budget. So the wedding budget's done. Can we agree on that?

Yes. >> Okay, good. And then how much debt do you have and how much debt does he have?

Um without the home, I have around

um 14,000 in um credit card and my car. And he has

a >> 14 is the credit card and car?

Um I owe about 4,200 on my car and then I have 8,000 in credit cards. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right, all right. And then um

his um truck is about 35,000.

And he has a credit card of 34. thousand

hundred >> hundred, sorry. Okay. hundred All right, cool. Very easy then. You do not need to combine finances until after the honeymoon.

Okay. So he should pay off his truck and his credit card today out of his hundred.

Okay. >> And you need to start working to pay off your 13 as fast as possible and the wedding is already done.

Okay. Now my question is he's going to be worried about paying his truck off because that dwindles down his savings account. >> When you guys are going to have You guys are going to have to really quickly have a talk about how you view debt and how you're going to manage debt and finances in your in your marriage going forward.

>> doesn't really have a hundred thousand. He already [music] spent 34 of it. He just hadn't admitted it.

>> [music]

>> Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? Well, really a couple things.

Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer and they've been absolutely great.

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See store for details.

>> [music]

>> Logan's in Indiana. Hey, Logan, what's up?

All right, man. Let's try again. Hey, Logan, what's up?

Hey, sir, how we doing? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help?

Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into um debt to

start a cattle operation. Mhm.

Okay. All right. How long you've been listening to the show, Logan?

Uh about 6 months or so. Okay.

And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go in debt and and to how to get out of debt, right?

Yeah, it is. I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So, I wanted to Yeah. see if that would work in this case. No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the owner gets the pro- the former owner gets the profit and not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different. Um Okay.

So, I don't borrow money, Logan, and uh I've done that for 40 years.

And I run a business and I've grown the business with the profits in the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this, business has risk.

When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk a hundredfold.

A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so, um what is what's your household income, sir?

About 120 to 130,000 current depending on overtime. Good for you. So, if you took out a $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

>> [snorts] >> Um running the numbers that we ran given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out, within about 2 years um to three at the most, by your third your first third round of calves, um everything should be completely paid off and it would be profit after that, minus operational costs. >> Yeah. So, what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking 4 years and making the thing cash flow its way to the exact same position?

Buy buy buy a third of what you're talking about buying with cash.

Okay. And make that third buy the next third

and buy the next third. You don't need any money out of this cattle operation.

You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed?

Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan. Because you have a good income at home already. And so, um I I think it would it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash your own cash.

And that's what we've done here.

Although, we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place, as you know.

I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary.

So, there's times the market has tanked.

And uh it's an agricultural product, and so it's a it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses.

So, you've got to be very very careful.

But, if I were in your shoes, I would get I would I would scratch the itch, but I would save up 50 75,000 dollars in cash by living on nothing, and I'd dump every bit of that in there, and then I'd take every dime of profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there 1 year later than you would have been there if you borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way, nothing ever goes perfect.

That is that is that's true. Yeah.

I mean, you get the cows get sick.

There's all kinds of problems. There's you You the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and, you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how all this works, but there's always something, right?

Correct. So, um yeah, it it I I would rather you do that and and be tired and um stretched on your cash and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race.

I just crossed metaphors. >> You did. That's all right.

That No, that that makes sense. Um a follow-up to that would be is if you were to cash flow this, what's your opinion on um you know, like leasing pasture and stuff? Do you look at that as debt or is that looked at a little bit different like >> No, that's just overhead. That's like That's just like lease That's like leasing a building to run your business in. Instead instead of buying the building.

That's There's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure.

Okay. Cuz now we've got two businesses.

If you If you buy the pasture, you got two businesses. You got the real estate business and the farming business.

Yeah. I mean, it's like it's like me. I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet. Like, you know, 600,000 600 million dollar property, right? So, I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in the real estate business and I've got a business that's inside the real estate.

But, I've got two things going on here, very substantial things.

Ramsey and a big old piece of real estate, big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period. No No matter how you cut it. And and you can sep You can mix those two together and act like, "Well, they're all one thing." No, they're really not.

It's I got a big old office building. I could have leased it. There's six of them right down the road down here. I could lease another one and not put you know, not put not put a half a billion dollars into this thing, right?

So, that that's that's the thing.

I just lease it. If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sakes, don't buy the building.

>> Oh gosh, please no.

Just just rent the building and get started, you know? You can start a daycare, rent the building.

And just don't don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time, and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then, so wow.

Cool. I think we won that one. Yeah, I think I think he's going to take your advice. I think he's going to do it. >> I believe in him. I like it. I like Logan. All right, that's kind of nice.

I'm I like getting one occasionally.

>> [laughter] >> Leona's in Cincinnati. Hi Leona, how are you?

Hi Dave, hi Jade. I'm good, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I have a quick question. So my

husband and I, we have a 1-year-old, and we recently moved, well, not recently, last year. We had switched from our apartment because of noisy neighbors, and went to a townhome.

Um the townhome, when we moved in there, it was not great. And we sent several

emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having, and, you know, mold, and spiders everywhere, and centipedes, and all these things happening in there. Um we told them that we are not happy with the townhome, and they said they'll fix things. Months went by, they weren't fixing anything. So we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job, and I reached out to an attorney through there, and they said, "Well, they failed to provide livable living conditions.

I have pictures of everything. >> Mhm. And you don't owe anything.

can break your lease, and you'll be fine." >> Oh boy, that >> [laughter] >> That was not GOOD ADVICE.

>> OH.

YEAH, YOU got what you paid for with that lawyer. Did you send them Did you send I mean, did you get any Did you send them anything in writing? Did you do any Did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

Oh, no. So we definitely sent pictures.

Oh, you mean to the leasing office or to your legal shield? Uh both. Did you send them Did you let them know that you were seeking legal legal counsel on behalf Like did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on? >> I Yeah, so I called the leasing office.

My husband went up there cuz they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there up there.

Um, he talked to them. They said, "Okay, we'll take care of things." Um, a couple months went by and nothing was happening. The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher. Okay, so stop. Just I just stop. I mean, they they it's You just moved out when you got mad cuz you called Legal Shield and they said, uh, you could.

Yeah, well, we weren't we weren't planning to break our lease cuz we did that before to move to where we are now and that was not fun. So, we said we're not going to break a lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can. So, after we said called the head office, the property management company or whoever, um, we talked to the district manager. They said, "Okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything." Did that, no response.

So, the Legal Shield attorney said, um, they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they failed to provide whatever suitable living conditions for us and our child. So, we

don't owe them anything.

So, because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything. We asked them multiple times, "Are you going to Yeah, well, then this is on Legal Shield. Legal Shield needs to defend you for free.

Mhm. Yeah, they told they told us >> going to get You're going to get sued. I can promise you.

I promise you, 100% this landlord's coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I got some bugs.

Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service, it's not how it works.

I mean, so now Legal Shield's bit this off, they need to pick it up and close the deal >> [music] >> and I and they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for you.

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>> [snorts]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Diane is in

Chicago. Hey Diane, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, yeah, same here. Well, I Thank you for taking my call. Um I currently have um

uh quite a bit of money in the bank, I feel. Um and I am thinking about my retirement and I'd like to know how best

I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement. How much is it?

Um I So, I have 600,000 in the bank.

Wow. >> Um and that that's free.

Um I have two There's 250,000 in retirement. Um which I don't know what to do with cuz it's been with a cable service since um we had owned our own business. Um and it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it. I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. Um I stayed home and took care of our kids, uh raised them, and um I decided to go into my own franchise and so I know that I'll be using some of that money for the franchise.

But I don't know that it is sitting in a

bank is the best place for it. Yeah, how how old are you?

Uh 57. Okay.

And you you said you were not involved in the business and now you're opening a franchise with the business money.

Yes, uh-huh. Okay. Um so, your husband

was running the business?

Yes, uh-huh. Where is he?

Um he's he's at home. Um he is supporting me on my business. He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own.

Um but everything's been in my name. Um

the the bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year and then um That where the 600 grand came from?

Yeah, we sold it for 1.2 million, but we

were given a large lump sum and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts. Like >> Um, okay. Unknown.

You're being cryptic.

>> I I didn't know about it. You [laughter] don't have to tell us You don't have to tell us what's going on cuz you're not This is not making sense. >> My hus- My hus- My husband has a gambling debt.

I don't know what he He gets He gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects and he uses that for extra curricular activities. I have no idea what he uses it for. >> know how much he's Oh, no, [clears throat] I know how much he gets. He gets $3,600 a month and that's his play money. Um, I get $700 >> So, he he's basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt and that's why everything's in your name. Yes. Okay. All right, that makes sense.

>> So, who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

Um, we have $2,500 coming in from our rental. The um, that person bought the

business and he has the option to buy at the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right.

Um, and then he also gets social security, $1,100 a month. Okay. So, at this point you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband.

No, I'm not, but I have no control over that.

What's the What's the plan moving forward? Does he know that Does he know that he has a gambling >> of control. You got everything in your name.

Right, everything's in my name. Um, he knows that I'm opening up this franchise which will be um, approximately $125,000

to open the franchise on my own. Mhm. Um

>> [snorts] >> He He's just kind of like leaving letting me leave the money in the bank, but I feel like it's not getting the best return. So, I'm looking for ways that I can invest it. >> Yeah, I mean, we could tell you to get with a Smart Vestor Pro and and invest that money, but I really I feel like that's the issue of the conversation.

Yeah, there's a lot There's so much going on. Here's the problem. It It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom.

Right. >> And that That's kind of what we're hearing here. But you You feel like you've got him uh his his gambling addiction under control, and I question that because I've seen I've seen so many Well, I mean but but uh and so as long as you keep this stuff in your name uh I guess you have the option of divorce at some point if he runs up you know, let's say he runs up a million-dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point.

So, anyway, that's what you're facing. So, yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a SmartInvestor Pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every 7 years. So, you basically got a million dollars in 7 years.

years old, you'd have $2 million. Add 7 more years at 71 years old, you'd have $4 million. So, you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this uh franchise. If this franchise doesn't go belly up on you. And um so, uh and it

sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So, that's a little concerning. Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or is it something totally different?

No, it's something that I'm passionate about. It's something that is for me, not for him. Yeah. I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this, and I'm expecting for it to be very successful.

And I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So, that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be. Yeah.

So, there there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently. So, yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it, but I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision, if it's a bad decision, and I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with a 600 or more thousand

dollars going over in a regular low-risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison to franchise purchasing.

Uh and so, let's put some money over there. So, if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work, um

then uh uh you know, you you've at least got that money working for you. So, yeah, you need to sit down and do that and you need to put a real limit on

the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it. >> Absolutely. And cuz if you don't with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive uh how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing.

And I I If you want to put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it. Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. Uh what I've got a problem with is these absolute statements, and I've been in business my whole life, and there is no absolute 100% people are behind me. I

feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about. None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money.

So, don't don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity. If you want to put 125 in it, do it, and then I'd put the rest of it over in with a Smart Vestor Pro and some good mutual funds and with to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and and separate these things. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm just I'm going to call it like I heard it. It almost sounded like this business for you is some sort of retaliatory thing against him to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here.

And my thing I would just say, draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're going to endure this and to what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that [music] separation um so that he can get the help that he needs because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer. It's It feels like it's breeding resentment from you.

And it kind of should.

Absolutely.

>> [music]

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Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia. He says, "I'm 66 years old and have been retired for 5 years. I have 500,000 in retirement funds but I have two debts, 40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage. I have

social security and pension income of 6,000 per month. Should I pay off my

debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401k?" Um I wish I had a little bit more information but off the top, I would say yes because to have your mortgage paid

for, that's money that you're not going to have uh to take a draw on. And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single debt in the world. No, make sure you Yeah, make sure you cut up the stupid credit cards and get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again. Yeah, that's really what you need to do.

Yeah, and if it's it's if it's old debt and you're like I'm not I'm not on that lifestyle anymore, I just still have it laying around, absolutely paid off, but if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey Mike, how are you? Good, how are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um my wife and her siblings inherited some money from her dad when he passed away several years back, and one of the siblings is the executor, and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible, but when they're just going to hold their money back from them. Oh.

I say that's not uh that ain't their call. You're exactly right. Okay, well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes. The the executor are the literal The reason they're called an executor is they're to execute.

Right. They're execute the what the will said. It didn't It didn't say you're uh a trust officer and you get to decide what's best. It said you execute what the will says. That's your only option.

Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it. You have one option when you're the executor, and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt, and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

What's your wife think?

Uh she agrees with me.

Okay. >> Now, you guys got your part, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued. Well, I kind of did that. >> Yeah, well, then that's you've done your job and leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore. >> How much is it?

Uh you know, I think it's like 8 or 10,000 dollars each. Oh, it's not enough to mess with. But, here's the thing. The person finds out that they were not given the money they're supposed to be given, the person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally.

Well, that's that's what I kind of figured. Yep, for sure.

>> [laughter] >> For sure, but there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, it's just these are [snorts] people doing whatever they want to do and that's what people do all the time. That's the problem.

When you pick the executor of your will, folks, you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will. Yeah, and and what is it you will to happen? That's right.

>> that means. They need to be Switzerland.

Yeah. Did you say deep kimchi? I just did. Okay, just [laughter] checking. Just make sure.

Things come up in the Rolodex. Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora, what's up? Hi, Dave and Jade. It's exciting to talk to you today. I have an exciting question for you. I want to know should we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house? Ooh, my favorite type of question. Tell us more.

Okay, so we are in baby steps four, five, and six. We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid like seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high yield savings account. But, then when we were doing our annual budget meeting, we were also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000.

Okay. Our mortgage is approximately $83,000 left. Okay.

>> So, if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done. And still have an emergency fund?

Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund. >> That's a little small. amounts. That's a bit small. >> Is Yeah, is that what it would be if the house were gone?

Yeah, well, we use like the brokerage account as like a backup emergency fund >> that anymore in this scenario. We have we have $10,000 in our bank account right now as a >> I know. But if you use the brokerage account and you use the 60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

Well, we want to spend approximately 50,000 on a car.

No, are you listening to what I just He's saying he's saying if you pay the house off with that >> you pay the house off, you got nothing but 10 grand left.

Right? We also Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account that is just a side emergency fund. >> Oh, so you have $20,000.

>> would have Yeah, we would have 20 Understood. If the house is paid off. Okay, that's what I didn't understand. All right. Are you Are you Is your net worth over a million dollars?

It is, sir. And this is a brand new car.

Um new to us. Oh, it's not a brand new car. It might be a year old. Okay, that's not a brand new car.

It either is or it isn't. Okay. [laughter] All right. Now, um so wow.

I mean, how long would it take you You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want?

We think by probably August. Oh, crap. I man, I I got to be honest. I There's not a wrong answer.

I'd probably pay the house off. >> Yeah, there is a wrong answer. Don't Don't buy the car.

You would? I would never buy that car. I mean, I wouldn't buy I wouldn't buy the car. I would pay the house off.

But I'm just saying, do you think she'd be Get it dead wrong? Yeah, cuz in 8 months you can go get the car anyway. >> THAT'S WHAT I SAID. SO GET the house [laughter] paid off.

What What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today.

I don't mind getting a stupid car. Cars are fine, but they go down in value.

Yeah. But do you think that lightning would strike her down had she done the other way? >> Lightning doesn't strike you down on anything on this show, hardly.

Uh but then no, I'm I'm definitely paying the house off 100% Today. I paid

off today. And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want. And you you might even get a nicer car. >> Parking it in the driveway of a paid for house. Hello. No question that that's the order things ought to go down.

Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So here's the thing.

And and I'm a car guy. I you know, I I've got owned a bunch of different vehicles here and there.

And um they all go down in value. Yeah. And so you're you know you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy even if you've got a high net worth. But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage.

Yeah, it's simple. I mean if she owed 500,000 on the mortgage then we could have a different discussion. >> even 100. Well, let's see. My tipping point probably would have been like 250.

Yeah. I mean I just I The point is is that this is very doable very quickly.

And so it doesn't matter. Mhm. So do it the right way. >> Yes. I'm with you. And and let your actions reflect that you've got um an understanding of how these assets work. Right. >> Cuz 5 years from the from today that $50,000 car is worth 15.

Yes, and that's going to be painful. Hopefully you keep it for a very long time. >> from today that house will have doubled twice.

Yes. >> so I mean there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one today. Or literally. >> You bought a car today? >> today, yeah. What'd you get? I got the new Bronco Raptor. Look at you.

>> Yeah, so I just wanted one. But I'm not I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point. That's not the point. The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your [music] overall life.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Nathan and Megan are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave, doing well. Great to be here. Good to have you. Where do y'all live? We live in Woodstock, Georgia. Oh yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $155,000

in just under 5 years. Good for you. And

your range of income during that time?

Starting income was 100,000 and ending

income was 145,000.

Very cool. What do y'all do for a living? So I work in technology. I manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry. Oh yeah. Yep. And I worked part-time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time. Okay, good. >> of debt was it? It was our mortgage.

>> [laughter] >> Look at them, weird people. I know.

Very cool. How much is this house worth?

About 450 now. Good for you guys.

And uh you've been putting money in your retirement all along, so how much is in that? About 300. All right, very good.

Almost millionaires now. >> That's right. Look at you guys. Wow.

Well, how old are you two? I'm 28. And I'm 29. So you guys started this in your early 20s. >> Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

>> And you did it.

Paid it off on Christmas Day, 2025.

That's awesome. So you must have Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this at 22 years old? Um well, honestly, he listened to you since he was About 12 years old. So I grew up

and we didn't we didn't have TV, so as a teenager I couldn't go to bed early, so I'd turn on my clock radio to Dave Ramsey and I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying, but I started picking up picking it up and then I mean it really just comes from my parents instilling hey, if you're going to accomplish anything you got to work for it. So then following your steps along the way, we did Financial Peace University right after we were married and just I mean worked as a team together.

Wow, very cool. Yep.

Yes. Yeah, and they were it was really just instilling if you want anything in life, you have to work for it. So that was what my parents gave me and then you gave me the tools to you know, us the tools to work together and accomplish this. We also bought a fixer-upper that

needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity.

So that's what it used to look like and we worked really hard on it and it's in Woodstock which is where we wanted to grow up. One of the kids to grow up and

It doesn't even look like the same house. So that's where we live now. >> was the dream. Just put put our hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted. >> Looks like it started with a chainsaw.

Yeah, that's right. Wow. Lots of poison ivy. >> [laughter] >> So the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast.

Like you already >> Yes. That was the whole idea. Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it, you know.

>> So So Megan, I mean when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show [laughter] on talk or on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd. I know. I I learned this a lot from him and then he got me on to you too and I truly he is a little bit of a nerd. >> sounds [laughter] like it sounds like he was an attractive nerd.

>> He was. Tall, dark and handsome.

very you know, it didn't take much convincing. Yes. >> [laughter] >> So and I truly I mean once I learned it too, once we did Financial Peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together and I think that's one of the keys too. Just doing it together.

Yeah, you guys should throw those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house.

You could buy that house looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. Looks like a dadgum jungle. Yeah. I mean that's the yeah. And you say it's worth 400 now?

450 now and and our neighborhood Woodstock sweet. Great area. Dave always says it's important to dream together.

So I was actually took us 2 years to convince this lady who was vacant to sell us the home and we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me and I go that's our home. See our home. And we we didn't even have it under contract yet, but Like every time we would drive by it. >> And you know following the principles of going hey we wanted it to we wanted a 15-year mortgage not more than 20% of our day income pay.

How did you get her to to sell it? Uh Well, honestly I was I was her friend for 2 years. She didn't know anyone else and I I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most of the time, but I said I just told her if whenever she wants to sell she'll think of us first and one day after 2 years she said all right I'm ready to sell. Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence and >> She wasn't it was it was vacant.

>> Yeah, it was vacant. We left her in a different place and we drove there.

got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until she decided

to say Till she relented.

>> We're ready. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I love this guy.

This is incredible. And of course you cash flowed all the all the upgrades you did inside and the outside.

>> you know I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas, electrical, plumbing, we did the septic system and we did everything.

I just need a the America to hear this.

You completely all of that and paid off

in 5 years. Right. Yeah. You

26-year-olds that are whining I can't buy a house right now because rent is running the world. Oh kiss my butt.

These guys right here hold [laughter] their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable. >> Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need to know.

Absolutely. Dave you preach it. I I actually saw the bumper sticker over there and I I love it and it was pray like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on you. And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that will listen, I'm annoying, I'll get passionate about it, but I'm but you're the problem, you're the solution. Work hard. There is I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been in any country >> for all of history. So, work for it.

It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, "Hey, I can't do this." But roll up your sleeves and get to work. Work is underestimated and working together as a team, this is just helped us in our marriage and you know, now we have a home for our kids and we're just going to continue building the dream. Mic drop. You can pull that headset off and slam [laughter] it on the floor. No, don't. Don't. Don't. Don't do that. It looks expensive. Yes. I I I say to like

just um you know, eat at home and practical things like being content with what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you and also just work in

side hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was a stay-at-home mom, but also trying to help provide some

income during that time and Nathan worked really hard at his job just to wake work his way up, but also worked side hustles. So, do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have um already. Well, I mean you're not even 30 years old. You have a paid for half million dollar house.

You've got You're well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so. Well, don't worry the market's moving and everything's happening.

Congratulations. I'm very proud of you.

I know your parents are proud of you.

Uh your children you you're heroes. You have changed your family tree. So, your secret is work at it and stick together.

Yeah, and just don't take no for an answer, you know? If someone tells you no, just figure another way to to do it.

Yeah. There's always another way.

Another way to get it done. Wow. That's amazing. I have one more question.

When you went to buy this house, How did you set your expectations? Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated and said, "That's not That's a shack. I'm not going to spend my money on that." How How did you know to do that? Well, great question.

I mean, my whole life it's been What are people We're so wealthy as a country, people throw away great things that we can work hard and and make beautiful. So, going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and we had talked about it.

What can't we change? Let's make sure that's good. We can work hard on everything else and change that.

>> Change some paint colors, change the flooring, just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside and we There were no mold issues, no

like flooring foundation issues. Like, we were very blessed. God blessed us with this home, too. Like, we >> [gasps] >> were put in all the right situations where we were like, "This is not just coincidental." Good guys. Well done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages. >> are they cute. They are >> [laughter] >> cute, cute, cute. Oh, there's more of them than I thought. Yes. They just keep coming. Yes. We paid it off when he was 10 DAYS OLD.

WHAT A GUY. YES, baby James. So, what's his name? This is James. He's 2 months now. >> and the girls? This is Emmy. She's 5 and then Lilly is 2. All right. You guys are Your parents are heroes. You don't even know it yet. You're too young, but someday you'll know they're the ones that changed the family tree. Way to go.

All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

155,000 paid off in 5 years making 140.

Almost Baby Steps millionaires already at 30 years old. Let's hear it. Three,

TWO, ONE.

>> WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [cheering]

>> WOW. I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT.

WOW. >> Those kids are cute. >> They are. I love it. [music] That's amazing, Dave.

Wow. >> Amazing. Oh, it can't be done. We're all going to die. Not No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby.

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>> [music]

>> Mark is in [music] Mobile, Alabama. Hey Mark, how are you?

Doing good. How about you, Mr. Ramsey?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I work offshore and I make about

$90,000 a year and I'm gone 20 days

out of the month and I'm home for 10 and my wife would love me home and I'd also love to be home, too.

Cuz later we'd also like to maybe start having kids and starting having a family. We are on baby step two and just wondering what y'all would think about that if I need to stay on the boat till we get baby step two paid off or would it still

be okay to come home?

I mean, gosh, that's a long time to be >> when you How long you going to be gone?

I mean, how how much debt do you How much debt do you have and how are you How quick will you get paid off?

So, we had $23,000 in consumer debt beside our house.

I'll bring home $5,800.

Our bills is $3,600 roughly and then we

have $2,100 left over that we could put towards that.

Okay, so you'll be debt free in like 10 months. Except your house.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. So, um and you make 90 and you're only coming home with 5,800.

There's something wrong with that. Where's all that money going? That's a lot of That's holding >> 90 is before taxes and Yeah.

I do have uh insurances through work and

I also have a life insurance policy through work that I took out a little bit extra. I'm in the process of getting

rid of that life insurance policy and going to term life. Good.

>> Okay. Okay, and that'll cut That'll increase your take-home pay as well.

What about your wife? What's she doing?

Uh she is not doing anything right now.

Um she is in the process of

going to the post office so about March or April she will be working at the post office. And what will that bring monthly?

And yearly? Uh roughly 3,000 to 3,500 dollars a month.

Okay. So you're going to cut your pay by 30 or

40,000 and she's going to increase hers by 30 or 40,000 by you coming off the boat. Is that right?

Yes, sir. You got a job lined up if you did that?

Um I don't have a job lined up right now. I have been looking at different jobs. I just wanted to get someone's opinion on what they would do if they would finish paying that off or I mean if you can line something up that that's in line with when she starts working, I would do that in two seconds. Yeah, your your household is going to have the same money coming in. Agreed?

Yes, sir. Okay. I mean you're going to get something that's going to not going to pay as much as a boat, but you're going to get something. I mean you need to go search out the job market and figure out what you can land. You might land something almost as much as you're getting paid offshore. I don't think so, but you might.

Um Yes, sir. Well, the job I'm looking at now it starts out at 40,000 a year

and then within 2 years you can be bumped up to 70 to 80,000. Doing what?

>> So there is margin being a steel mill worker in Mobile.

Okay. All right.

Um Well, here's the thing. We're not really cutting your income from 90 to 40.

We're really your household income is going to be the same because she's going to go to work and make up the difference. Is that a correct statement?

Yes, sir. Yeah, based on that I'm coming home.

Yes, sir. And take the steel mill job and let's get started because you're going to be out of debt in the same time as if she didn't work and you stayed on the boat. See?

Yes, sir. You still You still ought to be able to get out of debt in 8 or 10 months. And not eat No eating out. Both of you take extra jobs. Do everything you can.

And you're still going to be home more doing that than you would have been on the on the rig and offshore. And yeah, I

think I am coming home. Based on all of this. But if the only part of the equation was I'm just simply going to cut my income in half, then I might stay 10 more months and knock it out. >> months.

Yeah. I might stay another 6 months and knock it out. Whatever. But, you know, the fact that she's going to be making up some of the difference, you're taking a job that's going to escalate in income over the next couple of years a lot, and you can pick up extra jobs, and you can get on the EveryDollar budget and tighten up.

I put all of that in there. Yeah, I'd I'd want to come home.

Most of the time it's a 5-day thing or a 2-day thing or something like that. I'm out and back. And that's not nearly as strenuous as being gone from the family like an over-the-road truck driver or military being deployed or working offshore like this. >> That's right. Um and so But you you know, you can make some money. And And you know, when uh when

the Iraqi war, for instance, was wrapping up, there was a lot of civilian positions where people could go over there for 6 months or 8 months and make two or three hundred grand Wow.

>> doing stuff. And uh people were doing that for a short period of time to you know, to leapfrog forward. And that I might be willing to do something like that if I was paying a price to win. But But I got to see the end to it. That's right. >> And uh so yeah, I think I would do that.

I think I would do that. Yeah, she really is the key to this equation. Her working is the key to all of this.

>> Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. And so if she You guys start having kids, she doesn't need to quit unless your income has come up. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, you're going to have to you're going to manage that and keep all that stuff tied in there together. Sarah is with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi Sarah, how are you?

Good. Thanks Dave and Jade for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

I recently became guardian of my dad. He

has dementia. >> Uh-huh. Sorry. >> And we have moved him into a senior apartment. [clears throat] >> Uh-huh. My question is about his finances. I'm not sure what to do with everything that he has. Trying to honor what he has done and saved and worked

for. But also what to do moving forward with all of his finances. We're going to sell his house. Uh-huh. So I'm not sure what to do with those funds. Uh-huh.

Well, we would just manage it for his good. Agreed?

Yes. Now, does he have bills that need to be paid?

Yes. How much debt does he have?

No debt. Oh. That's good.

>> So the only bills are this assisted living situation.

Yeah, it's it's not a problem of not enough money. It's I'm not sure what to do with all of his money. Okay. Well, what will happen when you sell the house, how much will you have?

About 400,000. >> And how much do you have now in other accounts?

He's got 355,000 in an IRA. Uh-huh. 369,000

in a Roth. Uh-huh.

177,000 in a non-retirement. Uh-huh.

And those are all treated with the same financial um institution. Okay. And then

in a bank, he's got 315,000

dollars, which I know I should move some of that, but I don't know what to do with it. >> So he's got like he's got like a million and a half dollars. So he's in really good shape. Way to go, Dad. Yes. Yeah.

>> Good. And uh and you have full power of attorney?

Um guardianship, [clears throat] which is above power of attorney. >> Right. But I mean, you've got the ability to do with this as you will for his benefit. >> Yes.

Yeah. Correct. >> So, I would get on RamseySolutions.com and click on and sit and talk to one of the SmartVestor Pro financial advisors that we have endorsed. They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher and say, "I've got this I've got this million and a half dollars.

put it in a situation where it's very easy to manage, and um without taking a

big huge boatload of risk. And just sit there and talk to them, and let their job is to teach you how to make these decisions on behalf of your dad.

Is it smarter to separate some of those

funds and put them in two different financial places, or is it better to keep it all I I would I would have it in one.

Okay. Yeah, and just because and and but you're making the decision of where it goes. So, you could have it in several different mutual funds with one financial advisor.

Okay. But you don't need two advisors.

That's you're going to get you're going to get crossed up. And um you you know, you need to get someone, but you're not doing what they say to do. They are teaching you, and they do

what you say to do.

Okay. That's how we're going to approach this. It's your job, and they're there to help you do your job. We're not We're not looking for a babysitter, a nanny. This is not a boarding school for money.

You're still the [music] parent. Very good.

>> [music]

[snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. Jade

Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Tina is with us in Minneapolis. Hi Tina, how are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I kind of got myself in a pickle.

Uh-oh.

I'm going to try and get through with this. And but it's it's so frustrating.

It's really hard.

Um my husband passed away about 4 years ago. He was in a nursing home for about 4 years before that. That ate up any

money that we had saved. Um it was $10,000 a month to have him there.

Um and then that the um he was on what's called Medicaid in Iowa. And now they're trying to sue me for $200,000

for his uh nursing home care. They want me reimbursed. Why?

>> So, the only thing I had that they um that's just how Is it because they didn't think you qualified? It turned out you didn't qualify? >> No. Um no, this is part of how the Medicaid It's a state insurance and they want their money back. They don't tell you that when you sign up for it. Um No, that's not how Medicaid works, honey.

You're confused. >> Well, that's what the state has >> No, Medicaid is not Medicaid is administered by the state. It's a federal program and it's welfare for poor people. And if you go to a nursing home and you qualify based on your assets and your income, Medicaid pays for it. And they don't get the money and they don't get the money back.

Yeah, well, they keep sending me bills saying I owe $200,000. So, But why? Why

do they think you owe $200,000?

For his his nursing home care. No, honey, if he qualified for Medicaid, he doesn't owe the $200,000. They're wanting it back cuz they think he didn't qualify. They think you have too much in money in income or assets.

Well, he was on disability and I was on disability, so Come then you need to get an attorney to look at this and negotiate with Medicaid cuz Medicaid's gotten some bad information, it sounds like. But you don't automatically They don't just automatically sue everybody that goes into nursing home on Medicaid. That's not how it works.

Well, it's it was about a month after he passed away, I got this bill in the mail for $200,000. >> to you need to talk to an attorney about that. Now, what's the other thing that we can help you with?

Well, um I sold the house because I just wasn't going to let them take that away from me because, you know, when I What they said is they can't come after me until I'm gone and passed away, and they were going to take whatever I owned as payment.

And the house was too much for me anyway. Um I'm almost 60, so I sold it

and I got, you know, it's paid for, so the money was mine and I put it away in a in a trust account.

Um and I had my daughter as trustee. She trusted her completely. She never did anything wrong with it.

But unfortunately, um when people realized I had the money, then all of the handouts came, and can you help me? Can you help me? Can you help me?

And unfortunately, I have a giving heart, and so I helped them all expecting to get paid back. They all promised to get it paid back.

Um and now all I get is excuses to get it paid back when I'm financially struggling. So, you gave away how much money?

$69,000. Um, with uh

So, what are you living on now? Are you living on disability now? Yeah, disability and uh widow pay. What's the nature of your disability?

Um, I have anxiety and panic attacks.

So, um, like stroke level panic attacks. Um,

um, they they they they look like I'm having a heart attack. They're >> Yeah. Are you being treated for all of that? Um, yeah, I just can't work. Um,

I I'm even I went back to school to do

billing and coding. I've been medical for 20 plus years and somebody else paid for me to go back to school.

So, I'm taking that advantage so I can try to get a job working from home.

But, unfortunately, the catch-22 is they want you to have 3 years experience before they'll hire you to work remote.

Yeah. So, um, uh what what are you able to live on your disability income?

Um, well, I was until um, I mean, I got

found a cheaper apartment. I was in an apartment that was like $875 a month plus utilities and I found another one that's half of that. Good.

So, are you able to live on your disability now?

Well, I am except for the debt that I've accumulated by living in that more expensive Oh, how much debt did you run up?

Um, well, I was working and I bought a car because I needed a dependable vehicle. So, I owe 20 grand on it and then I got two credit cards.

>> Mhm. Where's the car?

The car's in my garage right now. I I can't even sell it. It's It's not worth what I owe on it. >> Yeah, but it is worth something and you could get rid of it and cut most of that debt away.

Cuz you're living on you're living on nothing. You can't afford a $21,000 car in your garage, hon.

Right. >> That's got to be solved.

I was planning on getting another job, but it just seems like I'm just running into brick walls. Yeah. And I got $20,000 Well, the first thing we've got to do is is is quit digging the hole, okay? Right.

So, yeah, you need an attorney to represent you and keep Medicaid off of you. Yeah. Um you need to start talking to your relatives about trying to get some of your money back. I don't think you'll ever see any of it again.

I think that's gone. >> either. Um that was a uh obviously a huge mistake. You were not in a position to be generous, regardless of what your heart was telling you.

And um you you were in a situation that you needed generosity, not the other way around. >> Right. Right. And so, um yeah, I I think um and then you guys start talking about how we can get a $5,000 car and get rid of this $21,000 car cuz you can't afford it.

And so, start making some moves in that regard. You haven't hit a brick wall.

Um and then you step into something. You step into I give away $51,000 or I buy a $21,000 car I can't afford. And see, there's a $70,000 swing right there.

Yes. Just in this story. And if we had that $70,000 back, you'd be in a completely different scenario.

Um and you know, you you give an attorney five grand and they'll make the uh the Medicaid thing go away. I hope. I hope you I hope he was qualified to go into a Medicaid nursing home. It looks like unless somebody else was supposed to be responsible for it.

So, if you received any type of settlement, they can come back. If he was injured in any kind of accident and somebody else's insurance should have paid, they can pay for it up front and then it want that money back. So, I would do due diligence on that. We don't know any of the nature surrounding him going into uh that facility, but you should look into that and find out and make sure there is nothing on your end that might have uh triggered that.

provides nursing home for free and you

don't have to pay it back for people that are certifiably poor.

>> That's right. It's a It's a welfare program. And there's no They don't automatically come and want the money back. So, uh the fact that they've done that tells me that they believe something that's not true or or he didn't qualify. Yeah.

And you guys took care from the welfare system that you shouldn't have. And then, if that's the case, you got a mess. But hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully there's just some confusion about the way the paperwork was filled out and this thing can be made to go away. And that's most of the time what it is when you're dealing with these bureaucrats. That's how the deal works. So, just keep chipping away at the different parts of this, Tina, and I think you can make your way through it.

>> [music]

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>> If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back, March 14th through 21, 2027.

Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

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>> [music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, you can head over to the website and use Ask Ramsey.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven Ramsey

principles. You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Might be a little nicer. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube. Folks, if you're

debt-free, the Live Like No One Else Cruise is your chance to celebrate. Hang out with us. I'm going to be there. All the Ramsey Solution All the Ramsey personalities are going to be there. Sharon will be with us. We've got new sessions on building wealth, live episodes of our shows, and the world large world's largest debt-free scream on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. This is premium cruise line, the best of

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here Here go. Salt Lake City is with us.

Tiffany's calling. Hey, Tiffany.

Hey Dave. Hi Jade. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Oh, first of all, I'm so nervous. So, um bear with me. Um I can feel my heart pounding in my ear. Okay. You're doing [laughter] good. We've never lost a patient. You're going to make it.

Oh my, I hope I'm not going to be the first. Um well,

first of all, thank you. I'm so honored to talk to you guys. Um you are part of my I don't know. You became part of my life. I listen to you guys. You're kind of the dad that, you know, I wish I would have. And And Jade, you're like such a badass sister. Um I just I You guys are

amazing. >> Thank you, friend. >> Um We're glad you're here.

Okay, so here's my little dilemma. How do I get strategically strategically?

Sorry, English is my second language.

I'm actually from a different country, Europe. Um Um how do I get strategically strategically? Oh lord, you guys know what I mean. Um >> Strategically? Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Hey, it's just the whole world is listening. That's fine. Um

My family have loaned me so far

two one two point one million dollars.

Um My husband and I, we owned two companies. We have a framing company, steel framing company, where we do regular framing for um residential reconstruction and the roof trusses. And we do have a construction

company where we actually build the spec homes. Do you make money?

At the point, not. Um we finally started making some money, or at least it looks better um on paper, I guess.

Um It took us about two years to to

everything started in 2022. Um And got 1.2 million dollars from a family member to to to to start a

company where we got the machines to do those framings. They come in steel coils and we basically just, you know, form them and and build whatever you need. Um 2023, we got another $200,000 and in

2024, we got another $500,000.

Um Our family are new developers as well, so they bought a bunch of land um over 750 acres

and started developing or just finished their first development um and

we're going to be able to build 30 homes out of 50.

And that's kind of why we risked it to get in that whole dilemma. My issue here is um besides that we keep getting loans. I got another $200,000 from another family member.

And right now we're in the process of applying for an first official loan from a bank because we just keep running out of money. We self-finance-ish, I would say. Self-finance the spec homes, so every

penny that we make, we put it into the homes, we sell it, and then that profit

we immediately take into the next um house. >> Okay, so this is not working.

Even if you sold Even if you did 50 of the 50 homes, would this make you right side up? No. At some point that's the

hope. No.

But I have another You can't just keep borrowing money because you can't seem to make money.

Well, and here comes another big issue.

Um I I do the books for our company and um

I just found out that in 2025, my husband started day trading without my knowledge. And so he tanked over $113,000.

I spoke to him last week about it and

he said, "Yeah, he he messed up. He was hoping to make fast money because nothing really worked out last year." And um now there's $80 left. Wait.

So um how how the hell do how do I

I need I need help to know

how do we get out of the mess? And besides that, we have a 2-year-old 4-year-old, of course, on top of that.

>> So first thing is is that if he ever comes close to day trading again, you can tell him that he's no longer your husband.

There's too much stress here and that is a breach of trust. He lied to you and he stole the money.

Yep, I told him that too. I told him that >> This is not okay. This is not okay. This is really crooked, bad stuff for anybody

to do to their spouse. Number one.

Number two. You guys need to sit down and look at this business model and figure out when you're going to start making money and it needs to be tomorrow.

You guys need to sell some stuff off.

You need to quit trying to do so dadgum much. Y'all Y'all haven't made anything yet. All you've done is borrow money and waste it.

Yeah, I mean, at least not enough. Like on on papers, like some of the things that we did >> no such thing as on paper. If on paper you made money, you would have some money.

Like in 2024, we made um $850,000

gross. >> Where did it go?

In the other homes. And then again, the other homes and then So you're buying these home You're building these homes and you're financing them and carrying the paper?

Oh, no. >> No, we're building them. I know. If you build them, then don't you sell them?

Yes, we do. So, you if you put in your $50,000 in homes and build them, don't you get a million and a half out when you sell them?

Well, you Those are like smaller homes, so we're like doing usually between 400 and 500. >> Okay, but I mean, aren't you getting the money back out? Don't you turn around sell the house? If you build a house, don't you turn around sell it, make money? That's how most builders do it.

Yep, and I mean >> So, you should be making money. Where's all the stinking money going? You didn't put it in the house and then it disappeared. You put it in the house and then you turn around sold the house. You said before that it was broken into two businesses. I wonder if the construction business is the problem and you need to just focus on the steel framing.

Or the other way around.

And the overhead costs are just ridiculous. We pay over $25,000

um almost a month. >> don't know if you know what profit is.

Do you know what profit is?

Hello from Yasmine. Okay. You need to have your income minus your outgo equals

your profits. And and you haven't made money cuz all you've done is borrow $2 million and you have no money. So, you don't have any profits on paper or otherwise. Cuz if you have profit on paper, honey, you have money in the bank. There's no on paper profit. There's no such thing.

It it you're either if if my paper says I have a profit, I need to look over in the checking account and see the stinking money there. That's how this works. So, if you put $400,000 into a

house and you sell it for $500,000,

you should got only get your 400 back, you should get an extra 100 back. So, there should be 500 laying over there after that house sells. That's how this works.

And so, y'all suck at this.

You need to get in there and get somebody to come alongside you and figure out how to run these businesses or you need to sell them and pay your family back and go get some jobs.

And if he ever goes near a day trading keyboard again, that's gone, man. That's the end of that. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. But, y'all been running this without making a profit for 4 years, and that's just dumb. You got to figure this out. You got to get You got to turn this thing around or get out of the business.

You cannot keep borrow your way into profitability. That's an impossibility.

>> [music]

>> How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But, then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan.

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Well, we love debt-free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt-free stage. We super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. T.J. is with us here with his wife Alice, and he's a project manager on the EveryDollar team. Been with us about a year and uh they get to come in here and do their debt-free scream.

Welcome, guys. Thank you.

>> Good to have you. How nerve-racking is this? >> [sighs] >> It's we're here.

>> [laughter] >> And it's finally real. Uh I love it. How much have you paid off? $165,000.

I love it. How long did that take? 15

months. >> Awesome. Okay, and you've been here about a year, so you started on it before. How long y'all been married?

1 year and 8 months. Oh, wow. So moving

here, getting married, starting the debt-free journey all in the last 2 years. Yep. >> Yes. Wow. Where'd you move from?

Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicagoland. Okay. All right.

So you got married and Did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job? >> Yep. Okay. >> [laughter] >> A project manager at EveryDollar. Well, that's awesome. So you people out there that are using EveryDollar to get out of debt, it's all TJ's fault.

>> [laughter] >> All of the things that are awesome about it, it's all TJ's fault. He's one of the many talented folks we got on that team, really really working on this. So what kind of debt was the $165,000?

Yeah, it was 107 in student loans.

>> Mhm. And then 58 in new cars. This is before learning about Ramsey. Right.

Got you. Okay. Very cool. How's it feel to be free?

Liberating. >> [laughter] >> Liberating, peaceful. It's the best sleep we've ever got Oh, I've gotten in the past 2 years was >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> uh October 30th when we made our final payment.

>> Mhm. Uh filled in the rest of that. I saw the thermometer that we had up there. Uh filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it.

So how did the order of events go about learning about Yeah. doing the Ramsey stuff, coming to work here, getting married, all that.

So we got the Total Money Makeover as a

a gift. >> Okay. >> It was not on our registry. We were not familiar. It seldom is.

>> [laughter] >> So, TJ read the book about three times and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. Um he

was saying that it's Bible-based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, "Dave's really funny." Which I was like, "Hmm, let me see for myself."

And I loved it. We had a conversation

where we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments and we didn't

feel like we were able to really live, even though we had two pretty good incomes. Mhm. Very cool. What do you do?

I'm a nurse. Awesome. Very cool. Good.

Yeah, that is two good incomes. Excellent. Well done, y'all. Yeah. Okay.

So, you're you get married, you get the book, and you get on the same page, and then how does he end up with this job?

That's weird. >> Mhm. Well, it all came down to we were Dave-ish.

Around Thanksgiving, I got to talk to my Uncle Matt and Aunt Gina, who were the ones that gifted us Total Money Makeover. And we're like, "We're doing it. We're doing it." And they were like, "Are you really doing it?" >> Ooh. >> And we were like, "Well, we have 20,000 in savings while we're trying to pay down the debts.

We, you know, we paid for our wedding and anything that was a gift, we just threw at debt." And I'm like, "That felt good. Let's keep going." And they were like, "Hey, check out their website for additional resources." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, I started looking around. I saw there was a careers page.

Let's see what this is all about." I saw some jobs. I was like, "I could probably do that." I applied.

>> [laughter] >> Previous role, I applied for hundreds of jobs and then I eventually got my one. I was like, "All right, Lord. If you open up the open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them." And however, that was a 12 steps to get here. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> A hiring process. >> Yeah. Uh but, you know, it really felt like God called me here. Uh able to serve, be able to be here and help spread hope to other people.

That's really awesome.

We did. We did. We bought a king-size bed. >> Yay! >> And adjustable bases. Best sleep of my life.

>> Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's exactly right. >> I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of bed. >> too. But, they got a new mattress.

>> a new mattress is [laughter] what it was. That's great. >> That's excellent. Very cool. All right.

So, what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, "How did you do that? How do you pay off 165,000

newly married in 15 months?" That's over $10,000 a month. Yeah. Uh God's blessings, for sure. Um everything kind of had to come right together. We wrote down uh October of uh 2025. And I When I

first When we were writing that, I'm like, "Uh everything is going to have to come out right in order for this to happen." And God's blessings allowed us to be there. Uh new opportunity. She was travel nursing. Mhm. Good money. Which is where a lot of all of that came from.

>> Yeah, that's good money. >> And uh it took a lot of sacrifice. I mean, I had to I had to move down here.

And I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down. Oh, that is a big sacrifice. So, she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away. So, a lot long commute.

And uh I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make, both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there. Uh and just want to be an inspiration to others. So. >> Yeah.

So, uh working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like everybody's doing this. You know, it's like the positive peer pressure. But, it's also pressure. Mhm.

I mean, was it helpful to have your team you know, all up in your business or uh you know, your buddies cheering you on or uh was was that a back I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice. But, um I mean, was is it helpful to be in the this kind of an environment when you're doing it or not? It can I think it could work against you.

Yeah. Um at least I can tell my side. It's been extremely It's a support system. Um if we didn't believe in it, then yes, I I I think it'd be a whole lot of different pressure.

They're like, "Oh, I don't really want to do it." But, we believed in it. We knew that it was going to be good for us. Changing our family tree, going through Financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change, and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget. >> Um, a lot of it was >> It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed bag as far as, you know, their thoughts on our journey.

So, we committed to it.

Um, so it ultimately was such a blessing. Yeah. Cool. Very cool. Any setbacks on the way?

Just right after we got out of it.

Um, I had to we had some I had some health stuff that came up. So, we got debt-free, and then we were able to cash flow 10K in medical expenses and uh >> Wow. Ooh. Now we're tackling on taxes, but we're able to cash flow it all. Um, car repairs and all that, we were able to cash flow it as we went. So.

>> Um. Well, it's about time to celebrate with some of it. Oh my gosh. Yes, indeed. >> Enough already. So, you're working on an EveryDollar you're project manager on EveryDollar.

The journey and now the freedom has to

affect how you look at all those projects.

Yeah. Um, just I mean, you're not agnostic anymore. This is you're in it. >> You're able to just focus. It's It's being able to say, okay, this I I'm I'm product of this, you know. I believed in it. It makes it that much more motivating to be able to come in every single day, come in to work knowing that I made a difference not only for my myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here.

Mhm. Um, it's truly inspiring. It's just

so nice to be a part of it, something that you believe in, and you're able to say, I'm I'm affecting this. I'm changing this. I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Ramsey plan. Yeah. And that's

all the motivation you need. Amen. Amen.

I'm proud of y'all. >> Yeah, excellent job. Well done, and the team's out here gathered, and none of them are working. They're all here to cheer you on. [laughter] And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very, very cool. Congratulations, you two. Thank you.

>> It's very well done. All right, we don't ask when a team member's on, we don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around and that's not fair. But they did pay off $165,000

in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear

a debt-free scream.

Three, two, ONE. WE'RE DEBT-FREE.

>> [screaming]

>> THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. Love it. Man.

You know, I can't imagine

coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad.

>> [laughter] >> I mean, lucky for them it's great cuz now you're submerged by everything you need to get off on the right foot financially. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, well, you're on stage this morning staff meeting doing walk the talk. >> Oh, yeah. >> We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people that work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know? Hello. >> 100% 100%.

>> The non-hypocrite system walk the talk, [laughter] right? On your honor, that's right. Yeah, and these guys they they did it. I'm so proud of $165,000

paid >> it. 15 months. Man, let's get it done.

Get her done.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

Our scripture of the day is 1 Corinthians 15:58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm.

Let nothing move you.

Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Thomas Sowell said, "There are people who go through the motions and people who get the job done." It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the latter and firing the former.

Amen.

>> [laughter] >> Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hey Charlie, how are you?

Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave? >> Just the same. What's up?

Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids and this month we just got debt free. So, we paid off the mortgage.

>> Wow. Good for you.

>> Thank you. Thank you. So, the question

is So, I I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home.

My dad, uh he is in his uh 70s. He's

still working.

Uh partly because maybe it's years of uh

poor financial decisions. So, he cannot

retire because he he has to continue to

financially support uh other family members, adult family members in the family >> why? overseas.

Um and uh so, I'm a bit torn uh because I I

I don't have any that I can help uh but I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors.

Um so, I'm kind of torn apart and and seeking some advice here. >> what do you make?

200,000. Wow, good for you.

When you >> what is it you're being torn about? What do What is it that you're at you're being asked to do or that you're doing?

Um I want my dad to be able to enjoy

uh retirement life. Yeah, but he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas.

Uh well, he he lives overseas, so he doesn't live here in the States. We are immigrants. Okay, from which country?

Korea. Okay. All right. And so, he lives overseas and he's 70 years old and he doesn't he has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members.

Correct. >> Okay. All right.

What's the situation with the other family members? Are they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today or is the damage completely done?

Well, I I see it's a multi-fold, right?

So, you know, some of the family member he support them uh just to help them with their lifestyle choices and some of the family members they chose uh not to work uh

because uh you know, some of the the the poor choices they made in the past, so that makes them makes it very difficult for them to find jobs. So, basically my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long as I >> happen if he couldn't?

That's the big question. So, we don't know. He he he he makes So, do you give your dad money?

Huh? Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work and give them money? >> He He makes good money, but I I'm

worried he probably doesn't have enough saved for his old >> What's the equivalent? Give us an equivalent in US dollars of what he makes over there.

Oh, he makes $250,000.

And he's 70 years old. >> Every month. Okay, [snorts] so let me stop. What's the problem?

The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to get to help him.

Is that the problem?

The the problem is, you know, I don't know if that's going to make the problem worse because I'm I'm I'm worried that if I give them the the money, the money will just go through other family members. >> No, I I wouldn't give him anything. I'm just asking. You today you're not giving him anything, so there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future there's getting ready to be something happening, right?

Correct. I'm anticipating.

>> Yeah, that that's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. All right, so what you're anticipating is is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money cuz he's given all of his away.

Yes. Now, at that point you can decide how much you want to help him.

I mean, and you you'll have the money, too. You make 600,000.

Uh but we're not going to help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else, only to the tune that he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing

because I I I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things, but I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural.

It is very cultural. >> Yeah, Because I mean in uh um you know, in the Latino world for instance, uh it's very normal to have uh a a more of a family

obligation to support parents than we would have in uh a typical gringo culture, right? Uh my hillbilly culture, you know, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that, right?

But in an Asian culture where you're talking about or the Latino culture, it's more normalized to be asked to

expected to and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that that this is how things are done. Is that correct?

Yeah, I that's 100% correct.

>> I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well. Even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, "Why are you doing that?" But but and the answer is it's a cultural difference.

Um to do that. It doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb, it's just an explanation, right? So, mathematically, we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight-up irresponsibility.

Uh although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So, um yeah, I I you know, I think I'd talk to him about it if he'll listen, but I bet he doesn't. And just say, "Dad, you know, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough to uh uh for you to further on your giving of these other people. So, these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own.

And they should know that now because I'm not going to be held uh to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's going to change what's going to occur. What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Do you, Jade? I do. I think he's 70 years old and he's been making this decision for a long time and it would be a miracle if he

stopped today. >> he's old school within that culture

and he's he's duty-bound.

>> Yep. Yep. >> And going to follow through on his duty to take care of them no matter how irresponsible or you know, bad decisions they've been making. He's going to do it anyway, I think. Don't you, Charlie? You agree with that?

I agree. I agree 100%. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago. It really go anywhere.

So, I decided to focus on my own and then try to get that free and protect the family, you know. The hard part for you, Charlie, is holding going to be to hold that boundary when the time comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things, but it wasn't your you didn't make the choice, right? He did and that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times. And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree but not an unreasonable degree and they and it's not going to be it's not going to make everybody happy.

No one in the end of the story is going to be thrilled with the outcome.

And so, that's the thing.

So, not accounting for cultural differences

and and you have to account for that.

So, it's it's not fair to say that, but you just folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children.

Yeah, you do. And you you said it exactly right, you know, it might be a reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good. >> That's true. >> In the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, "That doesn't make sense." Yeah.

Yeah, and he comes he comes out of that.

Comes right straight out of that. So, So, >> Yeah, you just got to go, um, no. Yeah, you can't. Don't park your brain in here.

>> we're not going to participate in that. It doesn't make sense. And, uh, I've learned a better way. Yes.

And that can happen. You can learn that I can learn that from his culture, you can learn that from my culture, it doesn't matter. You can learn a better way. That's right, but the hard part is he's going to have to do that at the expense of, um, hurt feelings.

hurt feelings and family meals and all that stuff's going to be very different when you when you draw boundaries like that, people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff, so. Count [music] on it. Good luck to you. I put this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

>> [music]

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## 40. Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future | April 6, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:37:58 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Delony, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr.

John Delony Show, and Ramsey personality. He's my co-host today. Jenny is with us in Orlando. Hi, Jenny. What's up?

Hello, guys. I'm just kind of tired of this financial dynamic that I have with my spouse. For context, we've been together 15 years, we're almost 40, and

I'm the breadwinner. I make about 170,000 a year, and he makes 65.

I'm more so now getting passionate about not carrying debt, making smart choices, and possibly buying a business, but I can't seem to change his mind about these balance transfers and buy now, pay

later programs. So, I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate that dynamic with someone that views money so differently, and I typically am the one to rescue, and at what point do I stop rescuing from these what I consider to be very poor long-term financial choices. Does he have a seat at the table with you?

He does. We talk about finances every single month, and I express kind of my displeasure about these things, and it's always the same thing. It's 0% interest for 18 months, and buy now, pay Let me

Let me I didn't ask a good question. That's my bad.

Do y'all have a co-created vision that y'all are both working towards?

Or does every month he come to the table and get taken to the woodshed by the breadwinner, the boss? You know what I'm saying? Yes, I say we're working toward the same vision and he has gotten a little bit better, but I can't get him to understand like even though it's 0% interest, it's still money. He sees it as this is 18 months, it's a Scott-free deal, it'll be paid before then.

We just view it so differently. I'm kind of now learning if you can't pay it cash, you can't afford it.

Yeah, that's a great lesson.

Thanks to you guys.

Yeah, we just view it so differently and it's just building up a lot of resentment and I don't want to like you said breadwinner, bring them to the table, give me the credit cards, I'm going to cut them up, but also I just am not in alignment with opening more stuff just because of the bells and whistles that they're dangling on the front end. >> I the only way I've seen this be successful and Dave, you've got way more experience with this. The the only way I've seen this be successful is

you opening the hood to your heart and your spirit and you telling him not hey,

when you do this and you need to do this and you this was dumb, but you saying

debt scares me.

Debt makes me feel less safe.

Debt makes me feel like somebody else is controlling our lives and I want you and me to be in control of our life.

And now he's getting to the source, he's not getting lectured. You get you get the difference? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not okay. I'm not okay with either one of us. I'm not okay with either one of us making a large money decision without the other one or in perpendicular to the values of the other one. And you keep doing that and I'm not okay.

This is not okay.

But do you see how what Dave just said is >> it's harmless and it's harming me. Yeah.

I'm not okay. This is scaring the crap out of me.

I worry about our future because of this because we're not aligned. And if you've made a bunch of expensive like expensive purchases, you go out and buy yourself a car, you like you lead with that. I've made purchases without even talking to you about it.

I got excited about this thing without even talking to you about it.

I'm going to own that, but I want us to start to do this together. Uh we we've got to build a thing together um because you know, us being on different pages is is harming our relationship

because it's terrifying me.

Yeah, I think because of how much I make, like he doesn't see 10 or 15,000 as a lot of money.

I see it as money that we owe to somebody.

>> Yeah. It doesn't matter who makes more, it doesn't matter who makes what, it doesn't matter how much the income is versus the behavior.

It's the behavior that's causing me to be terrified.

Right. >> You introduced yourself to us as I'm Jenny, the breadwinner.

Does he walk around getting told that a lot? I make more money, I make a lot of money. No, but I think it gives him that safety of oh, it's only 10,000, it's only 15,000. Like it just seems like so little because I make so much, but to me every dollar I make, I want it to grow and multiply and he's still This makes me feel the same way as if you brought home a half a pound of cocaine.

That's a lot of cocaine, Jenny.

>> not going to go this way.

Okay. >> This is a violation of my values and it terrifies me.

And it's not a matter of the money, it's a matter of us doing things that are directly a spear point sticking in my

arm every time you do this.

Or every time I do something that does that to you. We're not going to do things that we're not aligned on. So, Sharon has my wife has some things after 45 years that she loves to do that I frankly do not understand.

There are purchases we make that I I have zero emotional investment in. But

I I can come alongside because I get the point that it's it's important to her to do that thing.

And she gets the same thing with me. She

she Why do you need another gun? You know, well, because somebody made one.

So, you know, it it she does not emotionally, but she goes, okay, it's within our

and it's within my talk my emotional tolerance to do something with money that I don't understand, but I know gives you joy. Same thing with her buying whatever X, Y, or Z or putting some money in savings a certain way makes her feel different than it does me. Yeah. That kind of a thing. And so, all we're doing is is serving each other rather than ourselves. It's selfishness versus you know, submit yourselves one to another, scripture says. Mhm.

And it it's the the other one that's hard. Sure.

You submitting to me is easy. Me submitting to you, that one's hard. >> Yes. And so, and by submitting it doesn't mean I do what you say, it means I care what you think so much that we're not going to do something that terrifies you.

Yeah, and and she brought up a great point here that I see couples get sideways on, which is it really matters. She said, I want every dollar to be ROI-ing, multiplying, and growing. And it sounds like she has a husband who wants to kind of just enjoy the life he's in. And that is money just becomes the proxy war where everyone wants to fight.

The real issue is you're not aligned on this core value. >> Yeah. And what you I I don't want the audience to miss what you just said cuz it's important.

year. I think you sneezed at this morning. But like you and Sharon still talk about purchases. We do not make large purchases or gifts Right. without the other one being an approved.

>> Yeah. And you know, and sometimes the approval is laughing. Sure. You know, it's like but there's knowledge ahead of time and we don't get a It's like, oh, you know, well, let's let's let's let's sit on that a week and pray. Okay, that's a fair answer, too. Yeah. Um yeah, I don't I don't understand. Why are you doing that? And explain. Okay, I still don't understand. All right, let's wait a minute. You know, so yes, no, or wait.

These are three possible answers and and all tightwads and nerds can't have every dollar behaving with no fun involved.

The other person's there to bring the fun. All right. So, I think he's your fun person. So, you you see him for that. He's good for that. >> people have to realize bills have to be paid every month, which is annoying, right? And we need the other side, too.

Yeah, there's all that thing that the grocery store wants money for those groceries. Who knew?

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too.

They don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, You're going to have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options.

>> life insurance can replace income and have debts cover funeral expenses so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> Yeah. To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Cody is in Chattanooga. Hi Cody, how are you?

I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Great. Appreciate you taking the call.

Hey, I am a first-time home homeowner. I bought my house about 6 months ago.

Um, I got it on a 15-year, doing bi-weekly payments, but I just got and going through the process of switching to an ARM loan, so a 7-year adjustable rate mortgage. Um, I closed on it today. I've got 3 days to cancel it if I need to, and I feel kind of in my gut like I might have been making a bad decision, and I wanted to chat with you about it.

Okay.

Um Um What What was the interest rate on your old mortgage?

5.625.

And the interest rate on the ARM is?

It's going to be 4.99 for the next 7 years. So So 5 What? What's the The one you got rid of was 5 what? It is 5.625.

Okay. All right. So it's less than 1%

and your loan balance is what?

It is when I got the house it was 192.

>> your loan balance today?

I've managed to pay it down to 168 in the past 6 months. Okay. So 1% is $1,600

a year.

Mhm. Is the difference.

And it's not even that. So it's probably $1,400 a year is your difference. And what was your closing costs on this?

My closing costs are going to be about $8,000.

So you're not even going to break even.

That's that's what I'm looking at, too.

And my goal is to pay this off in the next 5 years.

>> Either your goals are irrelevant on this. It's just a simple refinance calculation. If you save $1,400 a month

and you pay $8,000 for that purpose and the loan's going to be paid off in 7 years, you're not even going to make your money back in interest saved that you paid out in closing costs.

Your break-even analysis sucks.

Got it. So my my payment right now is is

1,800. It would drop down to 1167.

I should I need to cancel this? Yes.

Cool. Yeah. Well, you see why? It's regardless of what your payment change is, it's the interest change that matters. The only real savings is the interest savings. The difference in 562 and 499.

Which is what? .75. 3/4 of a point, right? 3/4 of a point 1 point is $1,680.

So 3/4 of a point is around 1,400 bucks.

Got it. Got it. I I and I had think I had done my math wrong towards the the front end of doing this and and closing I think I kind of started to figure that out. >> Okay. So now let let's can I pile on now? Are you okay? Please. Please.

Buckle up. Which is really just to go back to the real reason to talk that this thing. Let's pretend that we had not found that mathematical problem. And

instead you just had signed up for an adjustable rate that adjust one time in 7 years. If you don't pay it off in 7 years, it's going to adjust dramatically. You know that, right?

>> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. And so if if if your if your plan

doesn't work out, you've got a problem.

Yes. Never put together

a financial formula that that it you have it everything your plan has to work for it to work.

It also it has to work when the plan doesn't work, too.

Yeah. Because they that that's the the stuff that we teach is the only stuff common sense stuff the biblically based stuff get out of debt for instance, okay? That's the only plan that works when things are good and the plans work out and when the plans don't work out.

Yeah. So you you did a deal here that only works if it works.

And those kinds are the ones that will come around bite you in the butt later.

And so you probably would be okay cuz if

it adjusted to, you know, 9 or 10% or something crazy at the end of that 7 years, it wouldn't be much of a balance cuz you would have paid it way down, but you would not be able to refinance if you were unemployed at that precise moment, which I've gotten that call. I plan to pay off this balloon in 5 years and in the 48th month six 12 months before the balloon pops, I lost my job and my wife got a cancer diagnosis and and so we're just now our house is being foreclosed on because you built a plan that only works when things work.

Right. And that's that's what that we wouldn't have a show if there wasn't that.

uh lawyers like there'd be way fewer of them and guys like us if everyone's plan worked all the time. Yeah. Yeah, if you >> Like the one thing is your plan's probably not going to work like you thought it >> For functional families, we wouldn't need people with PhD in counseling.

>> That's exactly right. If people used a calculator Most families put the fun in dysfunctional. So, I mean it's you know, including mine. So, there you go. All right, fun. Victoria is in Austin, Texas. Hi Victoria, how are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi. Um I am looking to see I am 300

$227 in 600 in debt and I >> I'm sorry, wait a minute. I didn't understand that number. That was a number I didn't understand.

300 what?

$300,000?

Yes, indeed. Okay. And and how much of that is your home, ma'am?

$255,000.

>> Okay. What is the other 45,000 in debt?

Um it is student loan. Mhm. And then I

have a car that's 12,000 and then my air conditioner went out that is 2,000.

Your air conditioner went out and you borrowed to get another one.

Yes, sir. >> That's the 2,000. Okay.

All right. Your air conditioner going out doesn't put you in debt. It's the buying the other one that goes you into debt. Okay. So, the And what do you make, ma'am?

I make between 100 to 150,000 a year.

Wow. >> work any overtime, it would just be 100.

If I do add overtime to that, it would be 150. >> Good for you. Okay, I'm I'm caught up with you now and your question's what?

Um like would it be smart for me to open up a Roth IRA now even though that I'm still in debt and I'm paying off my debt or should I wait till I get all my debt off of me first before I open up a Roth IRA? That is an excellent question.

And the good news is you're smart enough to know you need to be investing. That's very smart. Okay. How old are you?

I am 32 years old. >> Okay. So, you're already looking out into the future. Good for you. Well done. So, what we have found is after studying this for many, many years and helping millions of people get out of debt and build a wealth and that tens of thousands of them become millionaires is the fastest way to become a millionaire, the fastest way to build substantial investments is to

first get out of debt because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Now, I'm not talking about your house, but we want to get rid of the student loan and the car debt and the air conditioner debt as soon as we can.

And the good news is it's only 45,000 and if you work overtime, you can make 150 and live on 100 and be debt free in 1 year. You'll be 33 with no debt.

Yes. That'd be pretty cool.

But, you got to buckle down more than you ever have.

Yes, sir. Cuz you've been a little sloppy. That's how we got here.

Yes. That doesn't make you bad. It just makes you normal.

But, normal sucks. We don't want to be normal.

That's right. Okay. So, let's buckle down, get on beans and rice, rice and beans, get on a budget, get that Every Dollar app downloaded off the web for free, get your budget going, and let's knock these debts out ASAP.

And and lay out lay it out on paper where you're done in 1 year or less, okay?

1 year or less. Yes, sir. I will. You That's 45 from 150 leaves me 105 to live

on not counting taxes.

You can do that.

Okay. >> Once you focus cuz you're a person that focuses, I can tell. Go. Now that you're paying attention, now that you're awake, game on, okay?

>> Game on. Okay. All right. And and you can do this. And so, then what's going to happen is is the what you used to pay on car payments

and student loan payments, >> Yes, sir. when you start putting that into an investment, that amount alone

will make you a millionaire before you retire.

Yes, sir. So, I'm to pay the 45 off and then open the water. Yes, ma'am. There you go. We teach a process for getting

out of debt and then building wealth. We call it the baby steps and again, millions of people have done it. I'll send you a copy of the book The Total Money Makeover as my gift and it shows you exactly how to work those baby steps and don't make up your own plan, Victoria. Do the one we have that works.

It's proven. It's proven. It's not because somehow we just dreamed it up.

It's millions and millions of people have done that. I've sold 20 million of those books.

So, we know this is moving the needle.

And you're you're awake now, so game on.

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So, I'm really starting to

I mean, I was mildly amused with AI to start with, but I'm really starting to love it. Um once I understood this one basic thing about AI, here's something you got to understand. So, AI obviously generates an answer for you. You pose an answer for it. But, the only thing it can answer from is the data that you give it access to.

And so, if you control the data inputs, you're controlling the outputs.

So, for instance, when Google has lost its stupid mind and actually is when you ask Google a question, it's searching Reddit as if Reddit is some source of truth on anything.

90% of what's in there is bull crap. So, why you would search that for the answer to a question is beyond me. So, the AI database is completely screwed up. And

so, your answer's screwed up.

So, but we understand this now and I our team has built the Ask Ramsey AI tool.

And what's in it? What's the data that the publisher's in it? Well, we put 3 years of the answers from this show in there. We put all the Financial Peace University in there, all the books we've written here in there. We put all the articles that we've written in there.

So, there's nothing in there except Ramsey.

All the answers from anywhere we've given one of us has given, you know, Dr.

Delony, me, Rachel, whoever, and it drops in there. So, when you hit the Ask Ramsey AI app, it's going to give you an answer that sounds even as smart alec as you're going to get here on the air.

I mean, it's even got the some of the sarcasm in it. It's awesome. I I want them to turn up the sarcasm a little bit more. They took all my jokes about George out though and that kind of put >> really? Aw. He got his feelings hurt.

>> Ask Ramsey about George jokes.

>> He drove home in his Tesla in a huff.

Except there was no huff cuz there's no huff coming out the back of his Tesla.

See, there's a good George joke right there. All right. So, here's some that we get questions and and we always go down and cuz you need to check this app out. It's at ramseysolutions.com. It's free. Ask Ramsey. If you can't get through on the air here, which nobody can cuz these lines are jammed all the time.

You can just go over there and ask Ramsey. So, here's the number and we always come in and give you the number one question of the day of the week. So, the number one question this week are what are the top pitfalls to avoid when

budgeting?

So, uh I read an old Zig Ziglar quote this weekend that said, "No one accidentally got to the top of Mount Everest." I always say no one accidentally won the Super Bowl. Winning is an intentional act. And so, if winning with money is an intentional act, what are the tactical things you do? Budgeting is the main one. You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. You give every dollar an assignment every month before the month begins and that's

how we even named the app, the budgeting app, every dollar, okay? So, top eight pitfalls to avoid when you're doing your budget. Make sure you give every dollar a job.

Now, this is not your checking account balance. This is your budget.

And so, you there's no can be no money left over. If it's left over, you need to have a a category that's called leftover money.

So, at least then it's got a name.

But, it should be going to miscellaneous or fun or debt reduction or to something, right? So, no money left over. Now, money left over in your account is good. You need to leave a little slush in there. But but your zero your budget should go to zero every month.

The second one is then you guess at it.

You do a budget and you don't follow it.

You just go, "Ah, I kind of thought I No, you got to go like this is how much we have for groceries and we're not buying more groceries than this. And we run out of groceries after this day." And so, period. Uh then the other one is we ignore the four walls. We don't take care of the important stuff first. The important stuff is groceries and utilities and housing and utilities and uh transportation. Uh another one is you let de- debt steal your momentum.

Uh letting more debt in or be refusing

to sell something that's got a bunch of debt on it that's got you stuck and so you can't get them you can't get the math to spin and start to you can't get any margin to start to make some some process. You need a miscellaneous category. Everyone needs a miscellaneous category. You need a his and her spending category. They're small but it's unaccounted for. It's just money you can blow, money you can get rid of.

Uh you need to be budgeting and this is the biggest one with your spouse.

So, the two of you sit down even if it's for 15 minutes, even if it's for 2 hours with the kids in bed. We go over the budget, we both agree to the budget, and

then we freaking stick to the budget.

This is our contract. This is an agreement with each other.

We pinky swear and spit shake we're doing this. When you budget with your spouse, you are agreeing on your fears, you're agreeing on your values, you're agreeing on your dreams.

And when you agree on that much stuff, you're going to have a level of unity in your relationship you had no other way.

Another thing is if you make a mistake and have a bad month, people quit.

Don't quit. Get back on the horse.

Go ride it again. I have a I have a buddy who talks about that in the nutrition space about um you have you're you're on a diet and you have one bad day and then you're just like, "Ah, I blew it." He said that's like walking outside in the morning heading to work and you see you have a flat tire and you pull out a knife and deflate all the other tires, too." He's like, "Fix that tire and get on to work." And I when he said it like that, I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's a dumb.

Okay, so I had pizza. I'm going to get back on in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, just keep get back with it.

Yeah. Yeah, so you messed up. You're human. Oh, no.

Oh, no." And And here's the thing, you have to adjust for irregular expenses.

You've never done it before.

It's not going to be right. Your first 30 days, you're probably going to have some emergency budget committee meetings and adjust and raise one category and lower some other ones by the same amount cuz it's still got to equal zero.

And it takes about 90 days, about three budget cycles to quit fighting about it,

to get on the same page about it, and to actually get your numbers right. Because you we think we're doing one thing with food and we're actually spending twice that. We think we're doing one thing with whatever and we didn't realize, "Oh, we forgot uh children's activities." Like, well, the let me just help you. Children have activities. Or a doctor bill that's 7 months old just comes out of the blue and you got to pay like it just shows up and Who knew?

Yeah, I forgot about it. Forgot I went.

Yeah, that that's all there. So, these are the This is the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting and straight out of the Ask Ramsey tool almost like we said

it because we did. Can I tell you something? Um this is a very personal private experiment I've been doing. N equals 1.

And I got to tell you, um you and I haven't We haven't hung out in a while and I'll just tell you right here on the air. Uh-oh. My wife and I March 1st canceled

Amazon Prime. Ooh. >> And the second thing is I said for the

month of March, um and the month of April, I'm going to just going to use I'm going to go old school and just use cash.

And at every transaction >> transaction. Wow. >> In fact, today was the first thing I've spent with a card April, yeah. Um well,

I didn't I just I was like, oh, I forgot cash. Like I'm I'm still practicing. It's my first first one that I didn't keep up my end of the bargain I made to myself. I got to tell you two things.

One the ability to just click it and buy it versus I'm going to plan and go to the store has so insanely reduced the number

of things I buy.

I I never in a million years would have would have thought that. The second thing is um I I just thought like, oh, I need those socks or I need that thing or I need those light bulbs, whatever. I'm just going to click click click click click and they just mail them to my house. When I have to get out and go to the store and plan I just buy less like, we don't need that right now. Or you forget it. Or the socks I got, yeah. The second thing is you've talked this for years.

As I'm just putting over cash

it is painful. Yep. It sticks in a way

that just waving my phone over the little beepity beep thing it is causing

me to rethink all the stuff I buy. What gas cost? >> In a very visceral way. And it's it's

it's just it's a reminder at how the credit card companies, the tech companies in an effort to make everything comfortable and quote unquote reduce friction have taken away our our our internal

like metric system for this hurts. Do you really need this? Do you want this?

And man I do this I'm I'm with you on this show and I've been shocked at how my spending habits, frictionless habits have have taken over. Well, and your your psychology brain is probably in overload. Oh, dude, it's cooking. You're you're melting down analyzing all this.

Well, I'm I'm trying to connect what I'm feeling versus what I'm doing and man, that bridge is I need a lot less stuff.

And man, using cash really >> thing is you cannot replace the weird looks you get when you pay cash for things. I I did have one exchange where I and they're like I don't know what you're talking about. They were looking around at me like I was handing them a snake and I said, "Hey, I that's all I got.

So, if you don't take like money, I'm going to have to and they're and they're like, "No, no, you you can you can do it. We just got to I don't know how to open the drawer." I mean, it was a whole thing. I felt like I wrote up to like a store on a horse. You did.

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>> Zach is in North Carolina. Hi Zach, how are you?

Hey, doing wonderful. Appreciate you call, big fan. Sure. How can we help?

Yeah, couldn't ask for a better duo. I was hoping you could help resolve a disagreement between me and my wife.

Yes, I love these. We're probably going to be right.

I'm sure you are.

She would like to move back to where we're from where more family and friends for we've got an 18-month-old baby girl and she would like some more help and um Where is that? Where's home?

Charlotte.

And you're in Wilmington.

How far is How far is Wilmington from Charlotte? About 3 3 and 1/2. Not bad.

Okay. All right. >> Um versus I've built a um let's say fairly successful real estate career over the past decade here and just trying to resolve that issue and trying to trying to figure it out cuz starting over in a different market is terrifying and just doesn't sound feasible to me and trying to find a maybe maybe a middle ground or just get walked through it if you will.

What would a middle ground look like?

That's a great question. I don't hear I don't hear a middle ground here so I'd love to hear if you've got one.

Well, I guess I'm looking for a viable How old are you guys?

33. Yeah.

33. >> Okay. And you've been you've been in this market for 10 years.

Uh yes, sir. 13. >> Wait a minute, has she been there 10 years? Uh six. We've been here. How long have you all been married? Six? >> We're both from Uh yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right.

So, the baby is the is the thing that

caused the change.

Cuz there was probably no no big deal before that, right? >> Well, Mike Mike I would bet the opposite. Has this been brewing for a while? We don't have any friends. I'm kind of all all alone while you're out running deals. And then the baby just brought that all to the surface.

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. >> Okay. All right. Cuz the cuz that story like there is the draw I want to be around family. I want I want all my all

of the family's chickens, you know, in the same roost. Like that that's common and I totally get that.

But just listening to you talk about your career and like that makes me think she is rapidly feeling like um she is

living a life that she doesn't like living. Yeah. She You all have created a life that's mostly about you and she doesn't like what you all have created together.

Yes, yeah. We've got uh we got my folks here, but that's not enough and she didn't have the village that she needs, so Okay. Um just having a hard time with that. Okay. So, is the is the fear all all market-based that you have this job, it's comfortable, you know how it all works, and the thought of starting over again at 33, which by the way, you're not going to be starting over, but it feels that way and I get that.

That is that what makes you nervous, or do you also not want to live there? You don't want to be around her family, you don't want to be around her old friends. Is that part of it, too, or not really?

Well, a little bit of a combo. Not that I don't want to be around them, but I just I don't know. It's just been taking so long to be where we're at now um and

just starting over is is extremely overwhelming. Yeah. I I I would A, sit down with a good marriage counselor and keep talking about this for a while uh to keep yourselves from getting entrenched too entrenched. Um

and then I would probably throw out the challenge of two things. And this is just old guy talking and then I'll let the real psychologist over here answer the question, but um n- number one, uh uh going back, you can't ever go back

home.

I drove through my neighborhood that I grew up in the other day. It's not the neighborhood I grew up in.

Yeah. It just is the neighborhood I grew up in, but it's not the neighborhood I grew up in. You know what I'm saying? Things have changed.

And her old friends have changed. And the comfort she thinks she's going to get from being near her mother is not as much as she thinks it is. And so she's painted this romantic picture of how she's going to step back into all of this connection that she used to have, and none of those people are the same, and most of them aren't still there, and some of them you don't even want to be connected to. And so it's a false picture to a large degree.

this is going to be, you know, it's all it's all unicorns and Skittles over there is bull crap, okay? Um that's my

opinion. Um you just can't go back. And

so um I mean, I visit my old whatever,

school, church, whatever. It just I walk

in there and I'm going, "What were we doing here back then?" It well and and a common a common refrain that you'll hear me say all the time >> is wherever you go, y'all are going to go with you. >> Exactly. And so if y'all have built a life where she thinks she worked too much, she feels alone inside her own house, y'all sit by each other on the couch, and you're scrolling on your phone checking deals, and she's trying to connect with you, but she's on her phone. That zip code doesn't matter.

>> That same dynamic's going to end up Yeah. there. The second thing I would propose is with the help of a therapist that's keeping you guys nimble and uh flexible and talking, and

understanding each other's needs as you're going into this, is I would go on

a hardcore 6-month experiment to build

community.

Plug into a church, invite people to your house, invite neighbors to your house, invite church people to your house, invite work people to your house, have dinners, develop some friendships.

You're not friends with anybody because you've not been friends to anybody.

And no one initiates in this stupid digital culture anymore. And if you all would initiate, you're probably going to have more friends in 6 months than you would ever have in any other location.

But you need to work at the friendship and community building thing because you've spent zero calories on it so far, both of you.

John? Agreed. Yeah, and the layer underneath that one is I think there's some real power in sitting across the table from your wife and saying if this is true, don't say it if it's not true, but over the last 6 years the market's been up and down. 6 years ago you were living high, right? And in the last 4 years it's been you've been grinding it. Um

I've put this ahead of you.

And I want to build an I I essentially want to build a new marriage.

What does it look like for me to walk in the door and put my phone down and be present with you? The deal will wait.

What does it look What How can I love you better?

And by the way, I don't want to make this all one-sided. There's stuff about her that you miss.

And you're able to say, here's what I Here's ways you can love me right now.

But I want you to go first. Use the word I. I haven't shown up. I have made my life about business. I've been really proud about this. And you've been telling me for 2 years, 3 years, 4 years, I'm lonely. Can we go hang out?

Will you put your phone down? And I haven't done those things. That changes today. >> Yeah, have you protected her from your mother?

Yeah, I have. I think a lot of it has to do with we're in a we're in a secondary vacation um primarily home market. Uh we're not in Wilmington. And um Charles is course of and and she's got her sister and her kids there who are the same age as as our daughter and and her best friend of 20 years is there and uh, just harder to make friends here than it is as there.

And I think that has a lot to do with it. Plus lack of sleep and blah blah blah.

some new attempts at building the life there

before I left there.

And then the And then if you can't and you decide based on that, the only place we can build the life we both want is I'll I will make the sacrifice to rebuild my market in another place. And here's what that's going to cost. It's it's it's going to be a We're going to have a cut an income like We're going to be planning for this. We're not just going to be emotional and reactive about it.

We're going to plan for it. So it's not going to be tomorrow.

The proof of your future success is often your like past. You shown yourself you can get in there and grind and build it. You can. And so to say I won't be able to it's not going to happen I don't think that's true.

>> And it doesn't feel like he needs to He He doesn't feel like he has to if if she just had friends.

Or her sister or her cousins or her nieces and all that kind of stuff. But I I I love the idea of y'all two sitting on the same side of the table and putting the problem on the other side of the table and making sure like Dave said y'all don't come unseam at the part come apart at the seams at each other. It's you versus me One of us is going to win this. It is how do we build the life we want and that includes how do you want this house to feel?

Where's this going to be?

Who do we want running around our house?

>> So we did we did this, John. >> Okay. 45 years ago.

What's that? >> When I got married. My wife came 3 hours from her family.

Huh. Yeah. Moved into a city where she knew no one.

We did this. Yeah. Exactly what I did.

And we did exactly what I said just then. It's exactly what we did. And she's never one time said she wanted to go back home.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. John Delony, Dr. John Delony, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Ruth is in Nashville. Hi, Ruth.

What's up?

Hi. Um so, I'm calling because my husband and I built a multi-generational house with his parents.

Um now only less than about a year and a half later, my mother-in-law has moved out and will soon stop helping with the mortgage payment. So, we will either have to lose have to sell the house with very little equity in it, or we will lose the house. Um she says she wants part of the sale of the house.

Um but how can I move forward without feeling as much hurt or animosity towards my mother-in-law?

Um Could could I venture a guess that before any of this was done or signed up for you, you had a bad feeling about it?

Yes. So, you're really mad at yourself.

There's a good part of it that I am mad at myself. Yeah.

Yeah. What happened?

Um So, my husband and I um came up um to my in-laws with the idea to build a multi-generational house um back in probably late '23, early '24. Um

his dad had had a stroke back in 2008 and was in poor health.

So, we were talking and we talked about how important it was for him to be with his dad when the time came

when time came. Um And so, we brought up this idea with them and we were very clear we had a budget of $1,500 for our half of the mortgage. So, whatever we chose has to fall within that.

Um It ended up like with building ballooning a bit and uh we ended up with a $3,600 payment um rounding up. Um

And so, they said that they would cover, you know, whatever we could not cover with the $1,500. Um we moved in in September of '24 and by last June, so of

'25, my father-in-law passed away. Um and it was very

as hurt as painful as it was to be there, it was also I would never take that scenario back.

It was kind of what you signed up for.

Yeah, that's good. That part's good.

Yeah. Exactly.

So, did you put equity into the house?

Um me and my husband put about a hundred

maybe a little over a hundred thousand into the house. >> won't bring enough for you to get your hundred out?

Um we may just get our hundred. So, we

put in a hundred, his parents put in a hundred, but it was like a six hundred and sixty thousand dollar house. >> But so, would there be enough to get her hundred and your hundred out?

Probably not both of our hundred. Um She has Yeah. Um We're hoping to get close, but um she has since started dating a guy um in mid-July and

moved in with him in August.

Um and she was she first said she would cover the normal part of the mortgage.

She wasn't um taking that away from the picture. And then January she said, "No, I have to go fifty-fifty." which I was a little annoyed, but I mean I dealt with it cuz it was fair. And then just last month she said, "No, I'm not paying half. Um I will only be I will only be paying fifteen hundred and soon I will not be contributing to the house." Um So, but you I assume there's no written there's no written agreement, right?

No. Okay. Just her text messages saying this is what is happening.

So, the reality is the house is gone.

Yeah. So, sell it.

Immediately. Mhm. And uh deduct what she she promised to pay everything above fifteen hundred originally. And whatever she doesn't keep her promise on, deduct that from her half of the proceeds.

Okay.

To make the deal fair, to make her she's going to honor her word, I'm just taking it out of her hide.

And um um but there's so much to be disappointed in with this lady.

But uh none of it is your fault and none of it is anything you can do about. Uh but and really I would be so disappointed with her in all things except the house.

There's just so much that she's that there's there's wrong about what everything is just sad.

It is. So and then and here here let's let's walk away. Let's walk back. Then the house is gone. You have roughly your hundred in your hand and you go start the next chapter of your life. And then the way I would quantify that and I may be over compartmentalizing so that my psychologist over here may correct me.

But um the way I would do that is I say, "Okay, whatever money I lost, whatever tears I have shed over the stupidity of this deal was worth it for that precious

six or eight months and to be there when pop passed." Yes. And that was the cost of that.

That's what it cost me.

For to have that. I I traded this for that. And then leave it there and walk away.

Emotionally. Put it in the rearview mirror. And then you've got her to deal with and her misbehavior, which is just a separate issue, but I I I

you know, she's just out of control and and is grieving in a weird way and un a dysfunctional way and >> Well, she's met somebody and he's he's whispering in her ear cuz he wants that money in his pocket not in yours. Yeah.

Um okay, Ruth, can I use your situation, your original question as like a miniature teaching moment here?

Sure. Cuz you asked a really powerful question and I think this question is drowning us as a culture.

How can I do these hard things that I got to do that were not what we agreed upon and

not feel sad, resentful, all these other feelings?

Mhm.

All feelings are they're just they're they're digital billboards as you're driving down the highway of life.

They're giving you information.

Mhm. And if you think of them that way, they they are powerful and they're important data, but their job is not to tell you the truth. It's to keep you safe on this road you're driving on called life.

And if you were driving down I-65, we're all here in Nashville. If you're driving down this main artery highway that goes through our town, our city, and you said I want to avoid all signage, right? That would be a nightmarish ride.

You would never get where you actually want to go. And so, what I want to tell you is and and everybody listening and I'm I'm this is the pot talking to the kettle. I'm a big emotional, big feeling guy, too. is I I I want us to all

collectively stop trying to build lives where we try to work around feelings.

Let's go right through the stinking middle of them. Yeah, if you're going through hell, keep driving. Right. Yeah.

So, I'm going to feel I'm going to feel sad. I'm going to feel frustrated. I'm going to feel XYZ. This is what maturity is.

This is what emotional regulation is if you want to be a nerd. It is Can I feel this thing and then do the next right thing after that feeling?

And it doesn't mean your feelings are wrong, bad. It I I don't judge feelings anymore. Have all the ones you want. What I'm going to look at is what's the thing I did next after that feeling?

And so, be heartbroken.

Be sad. Be pissed off. Be all those things. And still sell the house. >> sell the house. >> Yeah. And still execute on the proper

way to handle the money at the transaction at the sale of the house and all of that. >> Still choose to I I I'm going to drop up with this woman as we sell this house or whatever. >> Still next time I have a bad feeling about a deal, I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to listen to my bad when the My dad used to say when the bell rings the bell's ringing for Listen to the bell, it's ringing.

>> That's a great That's a great line. You know, listen to it. Listen to it. Listen to it.

>> don't.

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Thomas is in Dallas. Hi Thomas, how are you? Good. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so um I'm basically a subcontractor working for um a company. Um I have to be doing

a lot of driving, need a personal vehicle. Right now my boss is lending me one of his. I currently have a broken-down truck that needs an that needs an engine probably around a $5,000 fix. If I get that fixed, my boss will give me the equivalent of a 20 to 33% raise

across the board um on my job. The question is whether or not to take out a loan to do that and then since right now

uh the income that I'm getting is pretty good um so I can literally rate >> What's that? What do you do for a living? I I clean clean swimming pools.

Okay. All right. And so a $5,000 or $6,000 truck will get the job done as long as it runs and gets you there, right?

Well, so I currently have a vehicle that is broken down. It needs an engine.

>> you told me that. I don't want to fix it. It's crap. I'd rather just buy one that's already running.

Okay. So what can you sell that piece of crap for? That's salvage. A thousand bucks? 1,500?

Not quite sure. I haven't priced that yet. >> Yeah, okay.

What What What kind of What kind of year model and what truck is that that's sitting with no engine?

Uh 2001 or maybe a 2003 Ford F-150. Okay.

Yeah, so you can buy that car with an engine running for five or six grand.

Yeah. Okay. Um And what do What are you making?

How much do you make before he gives you this 20 or 30% raise?

Uh net is 33.5. Gross is 30 after my

1099 tax. >> This 33.5 33,500

dollars? Yes. Okay. >> about Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

And so a 20% raise is $7,000.

That sound right?

Uh Yeah, 20% of 33. Okay.

And so um yeah, the um So, you break even after 1 year.

Okay. If you spend $7,000 to get a truck and he pays you 20%.

Um how long have you been working for this guy?

Well, so So, he's the one that trained my dad. I've been working for my dad for ever since I'm 20 I'm 28. I've been working for my dad off and on since I've been 15. Um I I recently had a life destruction event and then been literally have started working last week.

Back in this job that I have like What's a life destruction event?

I I um had a mental health crisis.

During the mental health crisis, I there was there was uh family violence happening between me and my wife. I got put in prison for that. Um even though in Texas, there's supposed to be provisions for preventing for helping people with mental health.

Should not just put them in prison, but that didn't happen with me. So. How long were you How long were you away?

Uh 2 years and a month and then I got a

violation and was back in for another 5 months. So. Okay. I'm back out a week now. So. Okay. No. Yeah, don't borrow

money, please. You do not need to borrow any money. You're you're you're coming off of a highly unstable situation and you haven't stabilized yet.

Um at least we don't know that. We hope you have and you hope you have. Okay? If you told me this was all 3 years ago, it might be a different discussion. It wouldn't be a discussion about borrowing money. It would be a bit a different picture. But instead, we're 3 minutes into this, not 3 years into this.

So, you need to sustain a life with very little stress and adding debt to this is not the thing.

So, thank you boss for the new job. I'm

sorry. I'm a minute out of prison and I don't need to be borrowing money right now. I'll have to drive your truck for a while longer until I can save up and pay cash for something. How long till you can save up six grand?

Um that's kind of that's kind of the

issue. The all my money is basically kind of breaking even in my every dollar zero budget. Where is it going?

Well, I'm sure the most

biggest expense is $300 in gas and so I'm spending about 105 I'm purchasing about 105 gallons a month.

Come on boat please. Cool.

Well, how much is your rent?

That's it. Me and my wife are currently separated. She has a $500 rent. I have a $250 rent. You have to pay the $500

rent? Yes. Why?

Uh currently because we have we have two kids. She's basically stay-at-home. Her family sometimes helps, but if I'm paying this stuff she doesn't ask for the money. Um and currently because of the family law instance there's a no contact order so I cannot coordinate anything with her. So I'm kind of defaulting to doing everything basically. Yeah. Well,

um I'm going to help you. You don't have to do everything.

You need to make sure the kids have a something to eat, but she also is going to have to make a life without you.

And so she and and that means she has to develop a way to live sustainably

without you feeding her.

Okay, so I um you know, right now we've got to get you up and stable. So your 250 rent um even 500 going out for her still not

used up all your money.

So you've just started. This is real fresh. Thomas, please don't go borrow money to buy a truck to work for a guy that you've been working for for 10 minutes, even though you've known him a hundred years. This whole thing everything in your life has been quick and sudden and fast. Impulsive.

>> And I want you to slow down. Okay.

And just be boring for a while.

Let's no excitement. You've had enough excitement to last you the rest of your life. Just be boring Thomas.

Can I Can I paint you a picture, brother? All right.

The last two plus two and a half years, somebody told you when to get up, when to eat, when to you could go outside, what you were going to eat, right?

Yep. When you borrow money, that bank tells you, "I don't care how you feel. You're going to work tomorrow cuz I want my money. You already took my truck." "Oh, you got you lost that job? I don't really care. You're doing this because right?" And so what I don't want you to do is walk out of prison and then walk right back in voluntarily.

And that's what borrowing money does. Stay free. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

Stay free. Hang on. I'll send you a copy of The Total Money Makeover and we'll help you as you rebuild your life and just steady. Steady and slow.

Christian, send him Building a Non-Anxious Life, too. I want to give him some tools for walking through the ups and downs that are going to be the next 5, 10, 15 years of his life as he steadies himself and builds a new version of himself from the inside out. We'll send him both of those. Yeah, very good.

That's good. I like that. Mike, send in Detroit.

Doing good, I think. I need a little bit of help. Okay, how can we help?

So, I got my dream job in September of

2023 working for a friend's company.

Everything was going swimmingly up till about November 2024 where I had to leave this company and pick up work with a competitor.

While I was working for him, I was working to get myself out of university debt, education debt, and get my feet underneath me, and be as independent as possible, and and save up money, and everything else. Um unfortunately, I had a lawsuit that I had to file against that employer, and it took everything out of my life.

>> or the second one?

Uh old friend uh old friend. Why? You only worked for him for a year.

Well, I was working for him on and off for about 9 years, kind of at the time.

>> dream was the dream lasted a whole year.

What was the lawsuit for?

Um he did not pay an invoice that I billed him for, for work that I performed for him. After you left?

Yes. Why did you do work for him after you left, if you got fired?

>> sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, before before I was hired on full-time. How big was the invoice?

$8,000.

Okay. I'm sorry. So, how how much were you making working for this guy? $65,000 a year. Okay. So, have you been

able to replace that income?

Uh I was working for another company, a competitor of his, but they were only paying half of it.

Now, so I think what I'm going to concentrate on is not being angry at him

and all this quote dream job stuff that never was really a dream, and instead be working on the future. I mean, what are you going to do? >> and get to get get get after something moving forward. >> Yeah. Go forward. Forward.

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Portland, Oregon, Leslie is calling. Hi,

Leslie. How are you?

Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Thank you for taking my call first off.

So, my husband and I have three kids,

and our oldest, she's 16. We share her

with his first wife, and she's 16.

And um we want to know our question is, should we help pay for her driving school?

Who's paying Who's paying for her insurance?

Uh mom.

Okay. So, you paying for driving school gives mom a discount.

Yes. Why is mom not paying for it?

So, that's kind of where we're at, and we We also want some advice on how to navigate that conversation.

Um How to navigate the ex?

Yes.

Uh we're not that smart.

Yeah, I didn't I didn't have that class in grad school. That's a tough >> did kind of this shady thing um last week. She um had said that our daughter

text my husband say, "Can we talk?" And then when they finally got to talk, she said um that they were waiting on us to start driving school, but we are going through

our own We just started the EveryDollar app. Like, we're trying to get debt free. We pay her child support, and like I

I just don't know how to navigate this because we've paid for her braces, and we were supposed to go half on that. She never once called and made a payment to the dental office, even though we told her this was the office Let me jump in on this Leslie, okay? Let me jump in.

Yeah. Yes.

I want you to take like imagine you're sitting at your kitchen table and you have a shoe box on the table. Yeah. Inside that shoe box is the people in your life that get a vote.

Okay. Take her out of that box.

Because you're still trying to like she's doing these things and you're spending a ton of energy trying to get inside her head and why did she do this and I bet it's cuz of this and then you're making up a bunch of stories about why she did or didn't and your stories are probably right but they aren't affecting her one bit. So you're drinking the poison >> hoping the ex-wife hoping the ex-wife is is is feeling pain and you're the one getting sick. Yeah. And so Let's just focus on you and the kids.

needs to do the same thing. My ex-wife does not get a vote.

She does not get a vote in our house, okay? Now, what our house what you and your husband sit down and decide to do for his daughter that he loves regardless if she's married to a woman who's a test pilot for a broom factory.

Okay? Regardless of that.

All right? So all that that's a given, okay? That's a that's a constant in the equation.

So we just set that aside and we go, okay, there's the kid. What do we want to do for the kid? In one case you said I'm going to do braces. She's supposed to pay half but she probably won't cuz she never does but we're going to pay for them anyway.

And that's what you did. So just let that go. You made that decision. Okay.

You made that decision. You and your husband made that decision again. Any energy you give ex-wife is energy you're taking away from from your home, from your marriage, from your relationship with your kids. Don't give her that.

Yeah, it's done. So then as far as the driving school goes, you guys look at it and go, how much is it by the way?

It's uh 1,200 and yeah, we paid child

support. We pay her 275 a month.

>> Doesn't matter. >> Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. None of that matters. That's all That's all set.

We don't have to We don't have to rehash all the things we do.

And we paid half the braces and you didn't. None of that matters. All that matters is do we want to do this? That's all that matters. And we can decide that in context of all these other things, but the two of you just sit down and look at that. Do we want to do this? You don't.

That's your vote. >> Yeah, I don't. >> That's your vote. And your husband I don't know what he you know your and and >> no, too. Okay, then because the the the

the test pilot for a broom factory is teaching her 16-year-old to be a travel agent for guilt trips.

Daddy, I can't get a driver's license cuz you won't help. Bull crap. You could get like a job and stuff, kid.

Or you could talk to your mother who could pay for it. There's an idea. And so no, we're not able to do that right now. I'm sorry. But I But I would tell the kid it's it it we have reasons for you. We

don't think this school is necessary.

You're a great driver already. We've been driving with you for a year with your learner's permit. We like or we think you need to have some skin in the game. Somebody else is paying your insurance. Somebody else is buying you a car. Somebody else is paying your gas. We think you should own this one.

But But have the reason be you and your husband looked at this young 16-year-old girl in front of you and said, "We made this decision for you and here's why." >> And by the way, if the ex-wife was completely out of the picture and she lived in your house 100% of the time and it was your actual kid Yeah. it needs to be the same decision. That's it.

Okay. Okay. Otherwise, you're going to be penalizing this kid trying to get back at at ex. You're going to become the person that you're frustrated with right now. Yeah, that's exactly right.

It's exactly right. So yeah, I think you and your husband should sit down and say, "Do we want to do this?" And if the answer is no, then how can we help? We can coach you. We can cheer you on.

But um you you your mom's paying for the insurance and um she's the one that's actually going to get the break on the insurance because if you'd go through driving school, you get less insurance for 16-year-old. So, it cuts the insurance premium and so it didn't go cut it by 1,200 bucks. Good cut expensive. >> what is this funny?

I'm sitting here in real time.

when I was 16. >> Oh, so that there were dinosaurs on the road. Why, exactly. I know I did pull a rope to start the car I drove around in and I just realized my wife when we paid we paid for my son he turned 16 soon to go to driving school. I the number in my head I was like, of course, yeah. I thought it was 300 bucks. I didn't know it was $1,200.

I can we did she just said >> Now you got to look up and see what you paid. >> to go see what I just paid for this thing. Sounds like it's being taught by a Formula 1 driver, but that just may be what the cost of That Well, that's the difference with 300 back then and 1,200 now, you know, that's how that works.

The last bit of inflation. Yeah, that's it. So, yeah, I but the thing is John the the the teaching is everyone you have to stop in the middle of these things and go instead of replaying these all of these scenes over and over and over in your head about the braces and everything else and just go and and she tell you know, we didn't hear from her and then she texted us and she got the kid to text us and all that really doesn't matter.

It's me and my wife. We decide.

And we decide that for our kids when they live in our house, you know, I mean matter of fact, they don't live in our house now and they still don't get a vote. Yeah. And the grandkids don't get a vote. They get a wish.

Sure. They can have a wish. >> have an opinion. That's different than a vote.

>> That's right. Papa Dave, would you? I might. But I'll have to think about it.

>> And and I think a great a sign of great like sturdy parenting is there's seasons when your kids don't like you. That means you're doing it right. If you're if you're parenting so that your kids always like you, you're going to find yourself in some real dangerous territory and worse your kids going to find themselves in some dangerous messes. Like part of parenting is saying, "Here's why we're doing this, and it's okay.

I'm strong enough to withhold your dislike for me right now. It's part of it." And in addition to that, if they're teenagers, your job is to also embarrass them frequently.

>> With all possible energy, embarrass them. Exactly. >> Find some way to give them a ridiculous hug and a kiss at the in front of all their friends. >> On behalf of mental health practitioners across this great country, embarrass your kids a lot cuz we need your future business. YEAH, IT'S GOOD.

MY I I DAVE, I I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

MY daughter's in fourth grade.

I can embarrass her by just smiling.

My son is seemingly impervious to embarrassment. He has this It's I wish I could bottle it up and and sell it because I would be richer than these AI guys. It's amazing. Hm. I make a joke, and he's just like, "Okay, that felt good, Dad." And I'm Oh.

Hit the ball back across the net.

>> at the dinner table, I made a crass joke, but it was a good one, and you don't know shame until your 15-year-old looks at you without a smile and goes, "Dad, when are you going to grow up?" Oh. And I was like, "Oh, man. Well played, son. Well played." And he was right, too. That was the worst part. Oh.

Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. Defaulted

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That's the letter y r e f i dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. >> All right, this is an awesome question, Dave. Today's question comes from Megan in New Jersey. Megan writes, "I was recently in a car accident and my vehicle was totaled. My emergency fund paid for my hospital bill and my parents lent me five grand so I could buy a reliable used car. Most of my remaining debts are smaller than they're loan to me, but I hate owing them money.

Dave said to pay them back, quote unquote, "whenever I can," but I feel terrible whenever I talk to them. I have $25,000 left in student loans and another 5,000 bucks on credit cards.

Would it be okay to just pay them first and then resume my debt snowball?"

I like that question cuz I in my guts

it's out of order from how we teach it,

but owing my dad money feels worse than owing the IRS.

You know what I mean? He can't garnish my wages, but man, I get that feeling she has.

>> Yeah, I understand. That's That's an honorable person, too. No kidding.

That's good. Yeah, so Megan, we list our debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one first.

So, that would and you know, I'm guessing you You said credit cards and 5,000. So,

I'm guessing there's a lots of little ones or a few little ones that total up to 5,000. So, you would knock those out first and then you would knock this out. The good news is the $10,000 from now you're done except for student loans. And so, that's a really,

really aggressive part-time job for just a few months. Just to like like and channel that Yeah, just channel all of that that discomfort right at those credit cards first. Cut them up and then list them and get yourself on a super tight budget, like beans and rice, rice and beans, and

um you know, and then add income. And look around, what can I sell? What can I sell? Now, here's another thing I want to throw out that's not asked here, but

um

it's a $5,000 car, so it the answer might be that she didn't have insurance on it. But, I want to remind all of you that when you get a in a car accident and your car is totaled and you have insurance that pays the car, pays for the car, that is not a reason to upgrade.

Replace it and go further into debt.

>> So, I'm guessing though that maybe she did not have collision on a $5,000 car and so when it got totaled, it was just lost it. She just lost the money. And I want to add something else that's not in here. And this is coming from a parent who my son's about to turn 16. Like, there's a chance this is me, right? I hope not, but it can feel like you're helping bail out your kid when you loan them five grand.

I would much rather her parents give her five grand than create this tension in there. If they feel like they want to help, they want to support their kid or whatever, I would much rather that be a gift. And I don't obviously, who knows what happened here and there's so many different things, but Yeah. So, but dad participates in making this an awkward relationship, too. Yeah.

I I'll just jump in on that side of this equation and say, from our perspective here, from almost 40 years of doing this, helping people

with their money and and and clean up money messes that they have made,

I'll make a bold statement. Parents should never, under any circumstances,

loan their children money. I second that. Period.

As a matter of fact, you should not loan any relatives money under any circumstances.

Period. If you have the money to help them and you want them to have the money, give it to them. If you're not willing to give it to them, shut up.

But, I want to be paid back after I helped you with your misfortune and I'm going to feel good about me when you pay me back after I helped you with your misfortune.

That's bass-ackwards, people.

So, no. Uh you know, if you want to help them, help them. If you don't want to help them, don't help them. But, don't make them owe you money because Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master and the borrower is slave to the lender. The The interest payment on that is your relationship. Oh, I That's the interest. >> Leaves notches in the belt at a minimum.

Yeah. Wow.

James is in Lynchburg, Virginia. Hi, James. What's up?

How you doing, gentlemen? Great. How can we help? Um I have a interesting uh dynamic going

on. So, um we own a small

rental home that we are close to having paid off and it's probably worth about 175 Mhm. at the current market. Mhm. Um

we owe about 15,000 left on it. Mhm. Um

on their our current home >> Mhm. and land that where we we the land

that the current home that we live in is on is is uh we owe 15,000 left on that.

And we cash-rolled um and self-built the home itself. So, we don't owe anything on the house. So, um 12-15 months or so, we'll be done um paying on both of these things. Mhm.

Now, I put all eggs in that basket for the last 10 years.

Um How old are you? >> All cash we had went into that. So, with the hope that uh in the plan that >> How old are you? >> 10 years I am 40 four almost. Okay. All

right. So, um you know, I'm think with that we wouldn't have to worry about paying for a ever again because we've been doing that long enough. >> wouldn't have done that, but we're there. How can we help? Yeah, no no doubt. Um so I have no appreciable retirement savings obviously for putting all those eggs in that basket. >> Yeah, which is why I wouldn't have done it. Okay. Right, I understand.

Obviously that's some level of stressful for me. Mhm. And uh um you know, here soon enough there'll be, you know, wide open rental income that will come in associated with that. We'll have, you know, freedom from the mortgages and things like that. >> What what does the What does the house rent for?

Um currently it's at a thousand. I have a it's it's valued at more, but I have a uh I have a widow in there and I can't charge her any more than we currently are. So Okay. Okay. So you've got an asset that's not maximized. Okay, that's fair.

>> Yes, correct. Yep. All right. Correct.

And um you know, I'm looking I'm just juggling around this and my wife and I been kicking it around. Me mostly me kicking it mostly me mostly her telling me not to do it um of

selling it and investing that money then into um some form of retirement savings and I wanted some feedback on that instead.

Um well, not not counting the arrangement

which I I endorse you helping a widow.

Endorse anyone helping a widow. That's biblical. Um and you're making you know, about 7% on your money cuz 175,000 you're making 12,000 minus expenses. So you're probably making probably 5% on your money on this rental house plus it's going up in value.

Um it's not a bad investment and someday you will be able to get full rent out of it whenever she's gone, okay?

Or whenever that arrangement stops for whatever reason. Um Sure. What keeps you from beginning your retirement investing now fairly aggressively since you don't have any payments.

Well, I do have payments on the property that that we built on to our current home.

>> Uh 15,000. I know, but you're going to be done in just a few months on both of them, you told me, right? Yes, that's right. >> I was calculating. I'm talking about a few months from now you're 100% debt free. What's your household income?

Uh about an 85 to 90. Okay. So, start

saving 20% of your income into good retirement or 25% of your income into good retirement. You don't even have a stinking house payment.

And put fill up your 401k, fill up some Roth IRAs, and get with a good SmartVestor Pro at Ramsey Solutions, and that account alone will be millions of dollars when you get when you're 65, 25 years from now.

Okay. And and and keep the houses.

Okay. You don't have to give up the house to have a retirement plan.

You got plenty of time, and you have a good income, and you have no debt.

But make make space make space in the middle of your chest for this feeling that's going to come.

I thought that if I had a house outright and I had a rental house outright, that then me and my wife could just do whatever we wanted with our money.

Nope. And you have a debt to pay to future you.

Of course. Right? And so, you're still going to have to watch your income. You're still going to be putting a sizeable chunk away.

It's not going to go It's not going to go to a house payment, but it is going to go to future you. Right. And so, expect to feel like, "Oh man, I thought we were going to be free of all this budgeting and all No, man, we still got to stay tight on it because we're going to get 85 or 90 years old one day." Yeah, as the the same intensity you were using or maybe not quite as much to clear up these two mortgages, we're just going to turn most of that cash flow and some of that intensity into a retirement planning system, into 401ks and Roth IRAs with your SmartVestor Pro, and promise you do, that's going to be millions of dollars.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Delony, best-selling author Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Clay is

in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi Clay, how are you?

Hi Dave. Good. How about you guys?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Yeah, so um just kind of really overwhelmed. Um don't really know how to attack my debt. Um the majority of my income is going to rent and a car.

And um it I need both of those things. I need a place to live in and I need a car to drive to work. So Mhm.

Yeah, um just need help getting out of here. Got you.

What do you make?

Um I make about 2,200 a month.

Okay, think we found the problem.

What do you do? Yeah.

Um so I currently work in construction.

Mhm.

How old are you?

33. And uh how much do you owe on your car?

Uh it's a little under 20,000. Mhm. Okay.

And how much is your rent? >> make Sorry, I did make a little bit more. Um but a portion of my wages are going to

some tax debt and student debt.

Yeah, okay.

And um

how much is your rent?

Uh 750. Okay. All right. Currently also

dealing with a pest issue that's taking up some more of the income.

A pest issue?

Yeah. >> That's That's why you rent, brother.

Your landlord would be taking care of the pest issue.

Yeah. Says it's on me.

But, yeah.

It's a Like there's not an easy way to say this. You got to make a lot more money.

Okay. What do you What do you do on a construction site?

Uh, so I work in an office, like a design office. I'm a I'm a Yeah, we provide products. But, I mean, are you in some sort of apprenticeship that this is all going to double and triple and quadruple in two years, four years, or is this kind of it for you?

Um, this kind of it. Uh, before that I worked in behavioral health as a like a

tech. Mhm. Um, just kind of ran out of options there and looked for another field and construction was kind of up and a good opportunity there.

W- But, the opportunity in construction is are you a builder? Are you a craftsman?

Right? But, you're the guy servicing those guys, right?

Correct. Yeah.

I get the projects in the door. Yeah.

So, um, I mean, there's several things going on, but um, one of them is that you just have an income problem, for sure. And there's two ways to fix that. Uh, one is the extra part-time job in the meantime while you're developing a career track where you go instead of making $30,000 a year, you go try to find a way to make 90. And that's very doable in today's world.

And it may take you a few It may take you a hot minute. You may have to go take some classes. You may have to do You don't have to get a 4-year degree, but you may have to learn some things you don't know now. And but you're going to set your sights differently than just uh whatever the next JOB is

because you're starving to death. That's thing one. Thing two is if you have a low income, it does not give you a pass

on math.

And I How in the world someone loans you

$20,000 on a car that wasn't smoke and crack, I don't know. You don't make enough to have a $20,000 car and that debt.

No wonder. >> about Yeah. You're you're you're dying.

>> Yeah. Yeah. How much could you get for that car if you sold it today?

Um so I did a quick like estimate on

um Carvana and they offered nine thousand.

Yeah, I bet they did. Look up Kelly Blue Book what the private party sale value is. Yeah, and that's probably more like 16. Yeah.

Okay. And then then dig up the difference and let's get the car sold.

Yes, you need a car to get to work. No, you don't need a $20,000 car to get to work.

You just need a you need a beater, a hoopty that runs and and gets you over to work cuz you're not driving to a $200,000 a year job, you're driving to a $25,000 or $30,000 a year job and you're

driving a $20,000 car over there.

That's doesn't fit in this picture. It shouldn't even be in this picture. We shouldn't be having this discussion.

There's no possible way.

Um it's not good for you. It's bad for you. So uh I'm going to move you out of that car into a hoopty, get you out of debt, and increase your income, and um

then I'm going to start uh learning about what my lease actually says about pest control. In most states,

the landlord is in charge of pest control unless the tenant is such a freaking slob that they caused rats to

be in the place. In which case you may be in charge of it. So, I don't know what we're dealing with, but um Hey Clay, I I here's the one I want you to reframe this. The way you described your life as is as though this is happening to you. Mhm. And I want you to visualize yourself getting in the driver's seat of your own freaking life.

And hitting the gas and going forward that way.

Your your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. >> of your own destiny. >> That's it. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. Your boss is paying you what you're accepting.

Um you're you bought a car that like I want you to own this thing. And that's the only way you're going to get out of it cuz cuz life just keeps happening to me over and over. Get in the driver's seat and say, "What do I want this thing to look like in a year, 2 years?" And let's head that way 1,000 miles an hour, man. Yeah.

The people that um that that get along in this world that that we call successful are the ones that leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. They don't sit in the cave and wait on a duck to fly in already cooked. >> Mhm. And that's what you're talking about is Dr. Stephen Covey's book is a great one to read, Clay. It's called The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

The number one habit of the seven, the first one, is to be pro that highly effective people are proactive, what John's talking about. They happen to things, things don't happen to them. That's the definition of proactive.

And so, you know, when in doubt, you bust something, not get busted.

When in doubt, you you know, we're going to hit something. Something When in doubt, we're going to be a man of action. Uh when in doubt, we're you know, and and and we're going to be slow enough

that we're wise enough that we don't buy a $20,000 car when we make $25,000.

We're going to be slow enough and wise enough that we pay our taxes on time.

We're slow enough and wise enough that we're reading the lease and um or not leaving a dump in some guys

landlord's house so that he has a pest problem because you brought it there. Or you didn't bring it there and he's being a twerp and we need to hold his feet to the fire. Hey dude. Yeah, the law actually says you fix this.

And here here's what your lease that you gave me says. It says you fix this. I own a bunch of rental houses.

We do all the pest control.

And I don't have any tenants that create pest problems. If I do that tenant doesn't stay there.

Cuz they're tearing up my house is what that means. No, thank you.

So, you know, these are proactive things that I do.

So, that that's >> I I think I I think I just got to say Again, I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I was the dean of students at the law school in Texas.

I drove a $3,500 truck.

And when I got my job here at Belmont, Nashville, I drove a 17,000 I really upgraded, man, to 17,000 You were making a lot more than Right. So, it's like listen, man, like drive what you can afford. Happen to your life. I got I got to do this. You don't, man, especially when it comes to a depreciating asset.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Shelley is in Washington, D.C. Hi Shelley, how are you?

I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right, so I'm I'm pretty new to watching your show and so I've just

really wanted to reach out because me and my husband are in a big mess financially and we can't seem to get on the same page.

Um I'll kind of run down some numbers for you. It's It's pretty bad. Um we have a student loan debt for my

student loan debt 52,000.

We have federal tax debt 12,000.

We have a mortgage 175.

And then we have personal loans

um that total about 331,652.

We have credit cards um all together that total 152,168.

And then we have business loans that are 199,382.

And business credit cards that are about 65,156.

So we we have a big mess and um >> So you have a business that is failing.

Um yes, the business has has been struggling in the past. Yeah, you're not you're not making money and you've been financing it with all these loans.

Correct. Having too many people on payroll and not having You're not making a profit for whatever reason and you've been financing it for how long?

How long's it been since you made a profit? >> Uh Well, I mean, technically I did make a profit um these last two years, but obviously I'm paying loans, so the interest um is

obviously only part I can that that cash flow I I don't have any cash.

Um Yeah, you're but you've been using I mean, you you didn't use these credit cards, these business loans, these personal loans, these other credit cards all to finance the purchase of the business. You've been operating it at a loss and feeding it.

Okay. Yes, so from from my portion, um

yes, I've been feeding the business with the debt to >> And all of this debt was created by this business?

No. No. My my husband, he um took He had

an idea to pull money balance transfers off of his cards and his personal loans to put it in the stock market to invest.

Um so, first year he made a lot of money, we had a big tax bill. The second year we had a lot that we owed and um

he never repaid those loans and credit cards that he pulled money off of. So,

his debt is about 360 of this, which is

from him pulling lines of credit, got a business loan, um and business credit cards. So, his debt >> So, does anybody around there work?

Yes. Like for a job to make money?

My My husband has a W-2 job.

>> What does he make?

About 120 a year. Yeah, and what was the profit on your business that you paid taxes on last year.

57,000 Okay.

Do you all both agree that you'll have a mess?

Yes. Do you all both agree that you want it to go away?

Yes. Okay. It's just the method of So my

husband got a bonus for about 12,000 and

so since I've been listening to you I was like, well we'll do the snowball babies. That's the smaller that's off.

Just forget about the $300 a month. Um he he's he wants to pay on a a personal

loan that's for $40,000 and he wanted to put it towards that to get the balance down, but as soon as he was we're arguing about it and then he called in and it went into collections.

So now it's in collections cuz he hasn't been paying it and he didn't have enough money to pay it. So now he's still wanting >> money that he made on the stock trades he put back into the stock market and lost it?

Yes. So he was day trading? He never he

he never paid any of the like I know he didn't pay the taxes, but also you said he made a profit that caused taxation. That's where taxes come from.

>> Yeah. And then that profit he might not have not only which means he might not only made the money back so he borrowed $60,000 on a credit card or whatever and he put it in the market. He got the $60,000 back plus money.

Didn't pay the taxes and put all of that back into the market and then lost it.

So the first year that he did that which would have been 2020 he did we did pay our tax bill. It was like 25,000 I think it was last year.

>> Where's the money? Did he lose it or not? He had the money and he paid it in full that year. Now the money that he made in

the stock market, where did it go? He

put it back in the market and lost it, didn't he? Yes. Okay, that's all I want to know.

You don't have any money is what I'm trying to establish.

Yes, that's correct. >> None of the money that was made is there anymore. It's all gone. Okay, do you own

anything other than your home? Um

uh he has car, um he doesn't have a loan

on it. And then I have uh vehicle that I don't have a loan on.

Okay, so your business doesn't have any assets.

Oh, it does. Sorry. It It does. I have desk, computers, tables, Mhm. laptops. What's What's your gross revenues on the business?

330 or 25. Okay.

How many employees?

Right now I'm down to one. Um Okay. I I

I let them go um What do you do? What's your trade? What's your skill?

I have a tax and accounting business.

Couldn't you make more than 57 working for somebody else?

I actually did. Um the end of 24 I got a

job, a full-time job, uh making 110, and then I got laid off in June in August. >> Okay, you need to go get another one.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz you need the income to be able to We need the income to be able to learn lean into this. Okay, and then back to your original question, y'all are arguing about what to pay off first and so forth. Um not counting your mortgage, you have a long road ahead of you.

So, the first thing we need to do is establish two principles before we begin to attack the debt. Principle number one is no more day trading.

97% of day traders over 3-year period of time lose money.

So, no more stupid schemes.

Okay? Second principle is businesses that don't make a profit are a bad hobby.

They're not a business.

If it's not making a solid profit,

if you work your full to your new full-time accounting job and you can run 57,000 out of this thing on your own as a side hustle in profit, and you know the difference in profit and gross, then keep it open. But, if you can't make a profit, you do not borrow any more money to keep it open.

You close it.

Okay? You fed this thing enough, and he's fed his uh craziness enough. Can I throw a third

principle in, Dave? >> Mhm. Third principle, Shelly, is

Yeah. for this to work, you're going to need all the like synchronicity and momentum that y'all two can muster together. Mhm. And so, y'all are going to have to decide this is our debt.

We both have done some dumb things.

>> done this, and we're both going to attack this stuff together. You you will never conquer this thing if he's responsible for paying off his and you try to pay off yours. >> Exactly. Then, pull the mortgage out of the equation, list all of these debts individually, smallest to largest, and begin to pay them in that order after the $12,000 tax bill is paid.

$12,000 tax bill is the first thing, and that should have been paid out of his bonus or If he's got that $40,000 bonus laying there, pay the IRS. Get You do not want the IRS. I mean, you're in tax and accounting, you know this. You don't want to owe the IRS money.

List your debts smallest to largest.

Now, if he's making 120, you're making 110, you're making another 50, we're up in the two $300,000 range now.

We're living on nothing, and we begin to attack this. Probably going to take you four or five years to clean up this mess, but it took you six or eight to make the mess.

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Dave is in Pittsburgh. Hey Dave, how are you? I'm doing good. Thank you for taking the call. >> Sure, how can we help?

So, I'm a huge fan with you guys. I've been watching for five years. I just want to say you guys are doing absolutely miracle work. So, the question is, right now, me and my wife are thinking about relocating and we are

thinking about having a kid as well within one year to a year and a half.

So, our planning definitely want to buy a house and to build the good memories for our future kids.

So they can have a good memory and kind of build a good foundation with that.

And so my question is we either want to do 15% of 15 years fixed mortgage or 30

years fixed mortgage, or we're thinking about paying cash. I know your answer probably is going to be around the 15 years fixed mortgage or paying cash. But however, the problem is we are afraid we're not going to have enough cash flow because that my wife is

planning to not work and taking care of the kids, and that I will be having the only single income that we'll have.

Okay, so you don't have the cash.

Uh so right now we have my salary is 70k and she's doing

55k. We approximately net around Do you have the money in a pile to pay cash for the house? That's not really an option, is it?

Uh there is there is. So right now you're going to be very happy to hear this. I graduated my grad school and I

did paid off all my student loan debt with around 100k. And then we both net around 1.2 million. It's just investing in the mutual fund ETF bonds and stocks.

So you have a million dollars in mutual funds and bonds and stocks.

Yeah, that's approximately right. Yeah, depending on the valuation. >> Bro, lead with that next time. Yeah, so way to go. So no, I would not borrow money when I have a million dollars in investments. I would just take some of that and buy me a house.

Simple. Simple people. You know why Dave?

Cuz you have a million dollars.

So what how expensive a home are you thinking about buying, sir?

So we're looking at 350 to 380k.

>> Perfect. So 350 leaves you 650 in investments. You have no house payment.

There's no strain on your budget. Your wife can stay home with the babies.

Mhm. That's awesome, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Why would you not do that? >> Yeah, help us out. >> Why would you not automatically do that?

>> Pitch us on why this is a scary ideal.

Right, I think I'm just running the two scenario that usually the market return 10% but however, you know, when you pay down a house, uh you're going to guarantee return back 3.5% on the real

estate and also you have to avoid paying the Yeah, but your wife has to work.

Right and and and her plan is to not work once we have the baby. >> the point. You just took out a house payment and put her in a job for your little investment scheme that you think is real but you left out the fact that you're taking on risk and the peace that when your head hits the pillow, it goes to sleep.

When you have no payments, you make different decisions than when you have a house payment.

So, don't do that to your family. You have worked very hard and done a very good job saving money.

Use that money to buy a house or don't buy a house.

Be a renter. But I mean, are you What do you Do you own a home now?

So, right now we are renting. We are waiting We are waiting for And what is your income, Dave?

Uh so, I do 70K a year. >> does she make? >> 55. She do How did you get a million too with that income?

Uh I think there was uh I got lucky with some money investment and also fortunate and unfortunate because we got some inheritance. How much inheritance did you get?

Uh she roughly got around 200 to 300 and

kind of grew uh and then I got around 300 400 and kind of grew and we both kind of get around 1 mil. Okay, there it is. All right, so whoever whoever passed away and left you all this money bought you your first home and that's their blessing to you.

And you pay cash for it and that's what you're going to do if you're smart.

There's no way you need to be playing around with all this stuff. Emily's in Denver. Hi Emily, how are you?

Good and how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, so um I've carried most of the financial responsibility in my marriage the almost like past 6 years. My husband

says he wants the same financial goals but he feels the need to constantly spend doesn't follow through and won't take accountability. He also has a history of addiction and he recently racked up as of what I know at least 6,500 in credit card debt on things like

7-Eleven and used money I gave him for

or I money that I saved for a trip um on

his own personal spending and then added me as an authorized user to a credit card that I didn't agree to.

>> Is he using again Emily?

Is he what? >> Is he using again?

I don't know. You know.

You know. What do you think? I don't I I think his

behavior doesn't line up but I can't prove anything.

His behavior is a language. What's he telling you? He says he's using. Yeah, he's back. >> Uh but He's back.

>> want me. No, well he he he wants the

addiction. He's in the addiction.

>> Yeah. Yeah, addict can have no access to money. Yeah. None.

Okay. And somebody in recovery knows that.

Somebody who's back to using again and you've been down this road with him before are world-class manipulators, world-class distorters of reality and they make you feel like you're crazy, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah, so here's the deal. Um you're going to get I if if I'm you you sit down with him and say, "Okay, we're going to get you back into rehab, and get you back into some help, and you're relinquishing all control of all money until you've been dry for 2 years." And you need to put a freeze on your credit report the second you hang up this phone call, and that way nobody else can add you to any more debt.

How do I do that? Freeze it. You can go go online go online and you can freeze your credit report. It's a very easy to do. And it will do it across all three of the uh crediting like credit reporting bureaus. Yeah.

But you're you're This is hardcore, kiddo. The only chance he has is um and the only chance your marriage has is for him to stop using, and the first step is a complete confrontation.

And you know, he gets into a program. If he's not willing to get into a program, there's nothing you can do to save your marriage or your money.

You have to get away from him as fast as you can.

Because 100% of addicts burn down their world. 100% of them are broke.

Until they get some healing, until they get the other side of the addiction, get some sobriety, they all of them, regardless of what they're addicted to, whether it's sports betting or whether it's pornography or whether it's heroin, the 100% of them burn their world down.

We work with them every day because we are there while their finances are burning. Cuz you just light money on fire when you're addicted to something.

Just burn it right there in the middle of the kitchen table. And this guy's doing it. All the symptoms are there, aren't they?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um and you know, I know you don't want it to be true. We don't want it to be true, either. But we also don't want you your don't want it to be true thing to allow you to walk around and act like it's not happening. It's happening.

Yeah, it drives me crazy cuz I can't prove it. I don't have to prove it.

>> We've got all the signs in front of us. And by the way, if if he's not using,

let's go one step darker. Um Where is he doing with the money? He absolutely doesn't care about your marriage, about how you feel, your safety at all cuz he's going crazy with this stuff. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So if he's Thank you. If he's not using then man, he's got some issues.

Some character Yes, he's challenged. Yeah. All right, not even worse but or worse than or as bad in a different way maybe it's a better way to say. I I I You're going to need to get yourself your own checking account and get on your online bills.

I'm sure you already have this but where you're paying that you got electricity and light and like you're going to have to take ownership of this for a season. >> Yeah, you have to take over everything. You have to take your name off of any his name off of everything.

I hate this for you, kid. That's so he can buy gas in his car with cash which means he puts gas in the tank and walks into the store and pays for it and walks back out to the car like we used to do.

I did that recently. They took it. I know, it's amazing. It was awesome. That little walk changes your what you pay for gas.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

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That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

Our scripture today, Matthew 6:26. Look at the birds of the air. They do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

Earl Wilson said, "Money in the bank is like toothpaste in the tube, easy to take out, hard to put back." I like that. Pretty cute. Mary is in

Minneapolis. Hi, Mary. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you, Dave, for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Well, I have a little bit of a dilemma.

I became a widow 4 years ago at the age

of 38. >> Wow, man. And my husband was a farmer.

He was 51.

Um and he left me with quite a bit of

assets. He left me with farmland, and of course our home, and then a million-dollar life insurance policy on top of that. >> Man. >> Wow. Huh. >> Um a lot >> What's the What's the What's the debt against >> against the farmland.

>> Oh, there's debt against the farmland?

Yes. >> How much?

Um close to 2 million. It's about 1.8.

>> And what's the farmland worth?

Around 6 million. Okay.

Right. So, what has the last 4 years looked like?

Um I continued to run the farm for 3 years. I had a farmhand that my husband trusted. He worked with him for a very long time. And he took over the farm. I

took over the business and we ran it for 3 years um successfully. We did We did

very well. Um and then he bought the

farm from me a year ago, 2025, January 2025.

So, I sold the farm. I didn't sell any of the farm land, but I sold the farm site and the equipment to him.

I'm sorry. What is the difference in a farm land and a farm site? Well, the farm site has the shop, the There's a home on it. There's um hog barns. And then it's just where It's just the home base for the farm. And then the farm land is what they grow the crops in. So, you own the land still?

I own the land, yes. And you have the debt still? And I still have some debt against the land, yes. Okay. So, where are we Where are we today and how can I help?

So, I'm looking at trying to pay down

some of this debt with the life insurance proceeds. I have about 1.1 million in in in cash. It's in a It's in

a investment portfolio.

Um but I wanted to pay down some of these smaller debts and I just was wondering if this is the right thing to do with this money. What are the smaller debts? The smaller ones, so there's a land There's one land mortgage for 40,000.

Um my home mortgage is 85,000.

And then the um there's an SBA loan for 125,000.

Okay. All right. Is there a business separate from the actual farm operation?

Um no. Okay. All right. So, the SBA loan is associated with the farm.

It is, yes. Okay. Now, when you sold the other piece of ground the other day to your farm hand, what did it sell for and where is that money?

It sold for 800,000, and that is a contract for deed with him, so that's where my monthly my income comes from is that contract for deed. Okay. So, he's paying you how much a month?

Um 72,000 or 7,200, sorry.

Okay. Is he also leasing the land from you that he farms?

Yes, he's also leasing the land, and there's a 10-year lease on it, so he will be farming it's 500 acres. He'll be farming it for the next 500 or 10 years. Um and that brings in about 120,000 a year.

But, he also put himself in kind of a pickle because if you sell this land, or if in 10 years

you want to do something else, he's bought this farm equipment, but he won't have anything to farm, right?

Right, he farms he farms around 2,000

acres, so he has some contracts with other farm land owners, so he's >> on the farmland is now down to what?

The balance on the farmland, let's see.

So, I have 1.1 million in one piece of land, and then there's 383,000 in another piece, and then the smaller one is just 40,000. I got you.

Okay.

All right. Okay. So, I think I've got the picture right. Um if I do, uh what I would do is to do what you're suggesting. I take 250,000 of your million and pay off the SBA and the 85 and the 40, right?

Okay. And then you're 100% debt free except for the two land mortgages.

Mhm. And you have an income of 7,200, which you can easily live on.

Yes. And 100% of the profits from the farm go to reduce debt at the farm on the land.

Yes. Yes, so the the profits coming from

the uh land the land rent is covering the

the payments for the No, not just the payments. You're making more than that. When in a in a given crop year on the acreage, your portion when he farms it

on your behalf, your portion is how much? It was 300 grand, wasn't it? Or 150 grand?

Uh yes, 120, I guess. 120, okay. And you have 300,000 on the small mortgage and a million on the other mortgage. So, in 2 years, the small mortgage is gone cuz you can put that whole 120 on it.

Oh, okay. Okay. And then we're going to do the same thing until we get rid of that whole million.

And so, by the time his lease is up, his 10-year lease is up, before it's up, this farmland's going to be free and clear.

Yes.

And then you're sitting on a 15 or 20 million-dollar net worth at that point.

Correct. Okay. Because the value of the land will have gone up, plus your investments will have gone up, cuz you got 650 invested that you're not touching either.

Because you're living off the 7,200 from the land contract on when you sold him the property. Mhm. Did I get that right?

You did, yes. Yep, that sounds that sounds about right. Mary, can I throw an alternative reality at you?

Yes. I I spent a big chunk of my life

out in West Texas where there's cotton farmers and cattle farmers.

The the conversations I had with those, especially those older men,

the the thing that I felt at the end of the day was giving them their core ordinary challenges was the debt on their farms.

Mhm.

It took one bad year to start a debt cycle that they could really never ever get out of. Mhm.

Is there any part of you that wants to sell this thing for $6 million and be done with it? >> And go have a different life?

There is not, no. I I I'm I'm not

opposed to selling maybe a hundred of the acres um down the road if I it if I run into that issue. I don't think I will, but I

don't want to sell the land. I want to hold on to it. It was it's family land it's my husband's family land and some of it was passed down. He actually bought 200 of the acres right before like a year before he passed away and that's where that 1.1 million Okay.

>> came in, but uh I'm more nervous about this than you are, so I'll keep that to myself, but just man I I just watching those farmers >> getting rid of all the little mosquito debts right now and then we've just got two big ones to knock and and the smaller one of those will be gone in two more years. So pretty quickly we're down to and the land goes up in value, so we got an 8 million two years from now we have an 8 million dollar piece of ground with a 900,000 dollar loan on it.

And that that doesn't scare me as much because then we're whittling away at it, whittling away at it and you love it and you're comfortable and and you've settled into this with a great rhythm.

I'm very proud of you. >> Yeah. I mean you really threw your you know, you really stepped into this kiddo. Well done. And what's your husband's name? Your ex you I mean your husband who passed away?

Kevin. Kevin, pretty awesome guy?

Oh my gosh, he was amazing. Yes. He was an amazing farmer, an amazing husband, a great dad. Yeah, he was he was he was a great guy.

I just always want to take a moment and a honor somebody by saying their name who passed away, but I also want to honor a husband who gave his wife the privilege of you got to grieve for as long as you wanted to. Yeah. Million dollar life insurance policy and a business that was right side up. You got to be sad for a season, not worry about where your next meal was going to come from and that's noble and honorable and and good for Kevin, man.

>> Yeah. He's a good man. He took care of his wife and she took care of business afterwards. Pretty incredible the dynamic duo there.

Yeah. Yeah, very cool. Congratulations, Mary. We're proud of you.

Very cool. Thanks for giving us the honor of talking that through with you. Yeah.

So yeah, just always be looking for a a way where the end of the story is I got zero debt because that always leads me to more wealth and more peace.

That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 41. Don't Let Fear Drive Your Financial Decisions | April 7, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jason is in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Jason. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I'm a 41 years old and I'm married and have a family and I have $0 for retirement and I am looking for some guidance on how I might approach resolving that. Wow. Okay, cool. Um how

much debt do you have not counting your home?

$0. Oh, great. Well, that's good. And how much do you have in savings?

A little north of 3,000. Okay.

>> Okay, good start. Good deal. So, we teach something here called the baby steps. Are you familiar with that?

I am. Okay, great. So, then you know that you're really a a third of the way in and you're really at almost at the point where it's time to start investing. So, just as a recap for those who don't know, baby step one is you get a $1,000 saved. It's a cushion between you and life. After that, you pay off all of your consumer debt, which is basically everything except the house.

You've done that. And then after that, we save up three to six months of expenses. So, you've got 3,000 saved.

Um how much would you need to add to that in order to get it to about three to six months of basic expenses?

Well, believe it or not, that's actually right around three to six months of expenses for for us. A thousand dollars a month you live on? I I know. I know. We're actually in a kind of a a unique situation. We We do own a home, but it's paid off.

And we also have a small I mean, my wife and I have a small online retail business that uh kind of floats us. And so I'm actually personally right now I'm >> if you had Not if you lost your job.

That's not the point. The point is what's it take to operate your household a month? It takes more than a thousand dollars to do that.

So what No, we're $800 a month. $800 a month. That That runs everything without any income. >> after you buy food, how much do you need? Yes.

So we live completely off grid. We We own some acreage and I built the house.

We have no utility bill. We have no water bill. We have no garbage bill. We basically just have to pay for We have to pay for food. So you're like So what is your household income?

Uh we vary between one and two thousand a month just from the business that we have. So why are you so worried? No, no, no. One and two thousand dollars a month is your income?

Well, that's just from the business.

>> No, honey, I asked your household income.

That's our household income. Wow. Well, it do you So the only income you have is this business?

Well, what I was saying is that I'm actually have been employed. I I had a a

great job that I did for over a decade and I uh I ended that job to pursue the dream of building this off-grid property with me and my family and I spent the last 18 months I So I spent the last 18 months building this property while the business floated us. And now I am uh job

searching. So I actually have several job opportunities. >> Okay. Okay. So what will you be making when you land the new job?

The jobs I'm looking at are between 60 and 80,000 a year. Perfect. Thank you.

Okay, good. That gets us where I need to be. Now, so Anne, you're making about 24,000 or so on the business. So, you're going to make 100,000 give or take with the two combined and you have zero bills cuz you are completely off the grid.

Wow, look at you. Okay, I'm going to raise the three to thousand up just because it's just weird. Okay? It's wonderful

that you've done that, but I I you know, you ought to have 5 or 10,000 set aside in just liquid cash because the purpose is not just to cover monthly expenses.

The measure is monthly expenses on how to build it. But if your car transmission goes out or one of your solar panels or one of your solar panels fails or whatever it is where it happens in your world, the the pump in the well goes out, you know, you're going to end up needing more than three grand. So, let let's set the target as soon as you get employed, let's raise the three up to seven to 10, somewhere in there. And that's still fairly low, way low on average, but for

you, you know, it's going to it should be sufficient. Very interesting situation. Now, having done all that, that gets you to what we call baby step four. However, your house is paid off, so technically you're at baby step seven.

Okay? So, you should put 15%

of your household income or more

towards retirement when you get there.

If you do that in good growth stock mutual funds and we suggest and Jade has done it, Jade and Sam, Dave and Sharon, this how we do it. We put across four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. And so, if you start saving $15,000 a year in a couple of

Roth IRAs in good mutual funds and you do that or more between 41 and 71, you'll have several

million dollars.

Oh, wow.

Like It's not what I expected to hear. >> Like three or four, probably. Okay?

And so, you got plenty of time and the good news is it's very easy for you guys to do because you're used to living in the land of contentment.

In a culture that can't spell the word.

So you're you're you're very content people and one of the indicators of well the ability to build wealth is the ability to be content and not need every stinking thing that Instagram pops up, which is not you. You're the other end of that spectrum. I agree and and let's fill in those baby steps for anybody who is listening. So we left off on baby step three. He saved up the around 10,000 that Dave suggests.

Then baby step four, five, and six you do together and he really already had them done. Baby step four is like Dave said, investing 15% of your gross income. We would suggest doing that every month. Most people uh not this particular individual, not Jason, but a lot of us have employer sponsored accounts.

We can throw that money right into a 401k, 403b, whatever have you, TSP, whatever. Uh and then beyond that you can do baby step five, which is add to your kids child's you know your child's college fund. That can be a 529, an ESA. I don't even care if you put it in a brokerage, just put something aside for them.

We don't give a designated amount. It's up to you, your budget, and what you think will look like uh the higher education for your child. And then beyond that, yeah, we're paying off the house intentionally. Again, not a specific amount, but this is something you're being intentional about.

It's always a part of your budget. Most people who pay off their house early Dave Ramsey or doing that and somewhere between the 7 to 10 year mark. Is that about right? >> Yep.

And that's average. >> And then from there, yeah, your baby step seven, this is uh where Jason was, living like no one else, giving like no one else, and I can't stress this enough, Dave. This is the time you live like no one else, you give like no one else.

>> Enjoy enjoy some of it, yeah, but so if you save 1250 bucks a month, which is 15,000 a year, and you never get a raise

from 41 to 71 or from 41 to 67, you'll

have 2.2 million.

That would be on average stock market returns. That's where you would end up. And so, I was right. I just put it in I put it in the calculator. There's a retirement calculator. Any of you can do this at RamseySolutions.com.

You can jump on there and run the retirement calculator and figure out, you know, different scenarios, what would you have based on what you have now, how much time you have, what you think returns are going to be. I put in 11%. The S&P has averaged 11.8% since it

began, which is a Standard & Poor's index on the stock market.

>> I think playing with an investment calculator is probably one of the most motivating. >> Yes, it's so motivating.

>> that $1,250 car payment just cost you 2 million bucks. >> Ooh. Step on that.

>> Jeez.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years

and so has my family. So, don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Sherry is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Sherry. How are you?

Hi, thank you. Good.

Good. How can we help?

Um so, my question is uh what to do with my slush fund? So, I was speaking to my husband probably like 8 months ago and I was like, "Hey, how do you feel?" Cuz we have all these Ramsey envelopes and got we have a vacation fund but it's used for something else. It's kind of like a vacation but I was like, "Hey, what if >> I'm sorry. You don't use your vacation fund for vacations? >> We do but it's like sports trips and stuff for like for the kids.

Okay. >> kind of So, we declare travel sports to be vacations, okay?

Well, okay. So, I went to him and I was like, "Hey, he knew I always liked vacations and taking my kids on vacations either to the beach once a year or planning a big trip every 2 years and saving for it.

Um so I was like, "What do you think about me making this slush fund?" He's like, "So just to do what you want with it?" And I was like, "Sure." So 8 months later I've got about 9,400 in there. And all from working overtime. It's not from my salary. It doesn't take away from the family whatsoever.

And I was like, "Hey, I want to take I think I this is more than enough for all seven of us, but I think I can take us on a pretty good vacation." He's like, "Yeah, we don't need vacations." Okay.

Well, because he wants to create generational wealth.

And that's giving the >> Yeah, but I thought we already had a budget that included saving for generational wealth.

Well, that's like retirement

>> generational wealth. Are you doing the things One of the One of the indicators of being able to spend on extravagant vacations is that you're doing the other things that make you a financially responsible adult, right? So if you're already in If you're already out of debt, right? You're already a person who budgets, you're already a person who's saving for the future through things like investing your 15% by having that that fully funded emergency fund.

If you're doing those types of behaviors, you have you know, life insurance, you're generous, all those things. Yes, you can turn around and take a 95 or 9,400 trip. But if you're not doing those things, you do need to go back and reassess. So why is it that your husband is saying no?

Why do you think he's saying no to this? >> put it back.

with both of our salaries. He wants to include it. And I'm like, "No, it's not included. It's overtime.

So it doesn't take away from anything." But then I sat on it for a couple of days and I'm like you know what? I think I want to help my son out with college more. No, here's the problem. I'm going to point to the problem.

The problem is you guys aren't aligned and you weren't using our money as our money. You're doing something over here, then there's money over here that's allotted for something but it's not really being used for that. Then there's money over here that he has a plan for. I think what will really help you guys is getting aligned and saying, "First off, our money is our money and it's going in one big pool.

It's in one checking account and with this money, here are the things that we've decided our priorities." Right?

yes, let's make sure we're putting the right amounts for retirement, which is wealth building, generational wealth, whatever you want to call it, right? That money's going there and that's been earmarked for that. Then after that, you guys can also say, "Look, there's money left. We've We've covered our 15%.

There's more money. What do we want to do with that? Do we want to take a vacation?" Maybe the answer is yes. We put a little money there. Does that make sense?

Yeah, and we have all of that going on.

>> No, you don't. Otherwise, you wouldn't have called. >> No, you don't. You You have your own little world over here that you created with overtime and then you're pissed cuz he wants to reach into it.

You're not doing what she said. What she said is all the money goes in one pile. We decide together before the month begins where all the money is going to go. His, yours, ours, overtime, nobody.

And if you have a slush fund, it's because there's a line item in that budget that says, "We're setting aside a certain amount for uh Sherry's slush fund," which is perfectly fine to do.

that budget. But not having this little side world over here that we have that's a fantasy world based on your overtime and then we get to just fight over what we do with that later. Uh that fight should have occurred when that money was in the pile with all the other money and we say, "All right, are we putting enough aside for kids' college? Are we putting enough aside for retirement? Are we putting enough aside for a vacation?" And you ought to be doing all three of those.

Right. So, I think the the bigger issue is when I went back and said, "Okay, I've thought about it. I want to help my son with more with college." Because throughout the years, I haven't made as much money and I've saved as much as I could, but it hasn't been a lot. And so, he he like, "Yeah, let's put let What number do you have?" So, I gave him a number and I was like, "Well, it's not going to be enough.

I want you to quit treating your overhead sep- overtime separately.

This the third time we've said this.

It's not a separate issue. Well, that's why I called. I wanted I wanted a different perspective. >> part of the overall pile of money in the

household. And if we your income and his income, plus or minus overtime, is not enough to fund the kids' college, we have a different issue. Mhm. You guys have a blended family? Yes. Okay, so I think that's part of the I I think that's where the separation is coming in. You're thinking this is my son from a previous time. I can put money on the side to deal with that issue. And I think you just have to view this, again, one pile of money.

>> that boy as his cuz he married you.

Okay. Like the two of you When he married you, he took on the responsibility of loving you well, which includes loving him well.

Right. And I want him to look at that, regardless of what you have made or what you What his income is versus your income, all one big pile of money to live our life. Our life is I have a son

that was with me when we got married and you said for better for worse and it includes him.

And, you know, we are doing this together. We are loving this kid well.

We are going to send this kid to school.

We are going to save for retirement and have generational wealth. I agree with that. It's a great goal. We are going to go on a nice vacation. I agree with that. It's a great goal.

So, all of the goals are fine. The process you're using is what's causing your disagreement.

Because you're still trying to run around over here and not making as much as him, but going ahead and pouring on the hours to take care of your son from a previous marriage cuz he isn't.

Or you don't feel like he should have to. I disagree. I think he should have to. When he married you, he married that kid. >> Mhm. And this is you better love them both better love them all just alike.

Treat them all just alike. That's how the Brady Bunch operated. That's why they stayed in their little squares.

And so, um you know, this is what we do. So, you you guys have all that you're both saying correct things. And neither one of you're afraid of work. You know, so the correct things are I want to build generational wealth. I want to provide college for the young man. I want to go on a nice vacation. All of those things just need to become line items in the budget. Now, here's where the rub is going to come when you do that. You, Sherry, are the natural spender. Your husband is the natural tightwad. The saver.

And for him, you're God sent you to him

so he learns to have fun.

He sent God sent him to you so you retire with dignity and don't have to eat dog food.

Because you're going to have some money saved because of this man. He won't let it be any other way. And you're there to make sure he has fun.

Cuz this guy don't know how to lighten up. He'd live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. You know, lighten up, dude.

Let's go on a nice vacation. You guys make a lot of money. I can smell it. He does and when they're all combined, including this overtime, and she made $9,000 in 10 months.

>> Yeah. >> They're doing all right. >> 12 months and overtime.

>> Mhm. That's great. None of you're afraid of hard work. You're good people. So, let's just sit down and say, "Okay, these are things we're going to agree on and in the overall picture, what number are we going to put on each one?" And I want you to go on vacation.

And I want you to find the voice college. And I want you to build generational wealth. And you can do every bit of that when you lay it out and use the baby steps. So, quit living separate lives off to the side, folks. It does not work. It All it does is create strife, anxiety, and we're still measuring against the past. We're still saying, "You know, I brought this child into this marriage." Yeah, but but he was there. It's not It was not a secret.

It was part of the package.

And you're worth it. You guys are worth it to go on vacation. So, yeah, so everybody does get to win. It's just a matter of how much and when and in what order.

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Nashville. Hi Ray, how are you?

Hey Dave, thank you for taking my call.

I'm a long-time listener. Thank you for your valuable advice throughout the years. >> Thank you, Sean. Uh reason I'm reason I'm calling, about 40 years ago I was a pilot in the Navy and I took out a $50,000 service uh men's uh group life

insurance policy. Uh it was about $50 a

year, I believe, and back then uh $50,000 actually was a lot of money.

Mhm. Um throughout the years I kept the policy uh after the first Gulf War uh I got hired by a major airline in 1991.

And as the years went on, I continued with my group life. And then when I was in my 40s, I picked up a 30-year

uh term policy for $500,000,

uh which will hold me until I turn 74.

Um in this this last December, I turned

65 and by law, I was forced to retire as

an airline pilot. So, I am now retired with a fixed income of my pension, social security. My wife took an early social security uh at 63 partly because

she needed insurance policy like a medical insurance policy to gap her until she gets on uh Medicare.

So, the status that I have right now, I have no um uh no liens. I have no loans at all. My house is paid for. Why you want to go, right? We're empty nesters. Uh school has been

uh all the college is behind us.

I have about a million and a half in my uh 401k and IRA. And uh I have quite a

bit of cash. And uh so, our question is

after you turn 50, the the group life policy, it seems like the premiums just go exponentially higher and higher. I'm sure you're very familiar with this.

Mhm. And then 65 is another tier that it hits. Um my question is uh

uh When I was flying, I I felt I felt as though I wanted to have as much insurance as I possibly could. Uh I was doing international flying. Things can take place overseas and I wanted to make sure I was fully insured that my wife would have a good uh nest egg in the event that something happened. So, now that I'm not flying anymore, I'm questioning whether it makes sense to continue this group life policy. Um

it It does not.

Yeah, it's uh it makes sense at all.

>> And the the reason is very simple. If you canceled both life insurance policies and you died tomorrow,

your wife's got a million and a half dollars plus a pile of undisclosed number of cash.

I think she's okay, dude.

Well, uh here's the thing. Uh she has longevity in her family and her mother is 97 and the way she lives and eats, she's going to succeed me by 100%

75% of the ladies outlive their husbands. That's not the point. The point is How How big is this pile of cash you mentioned? Uh it's it's about a million cash.

>> Oh, boy. So, we have two point two mi

two point five million dollars.

Okay, if that were invested in a decent mutual fund and let's just pretend for easy numbers, it produced 10% a year

without touching the principal, the 10% would be $250,000.

I think mama's okay, honey.

Well, I tell you she's going to live to be a hundred and a You she can't make it on 250k?

Even if she even if she went and >> make it on $250,000 a year?

I'm sure she could. >> All right, it's my point.

Yeah. You're self-insured because you've done an extremely good job, Ray.

Um you know what? I've listened to your your uh tutelage throughout the years and uh we were we were debt-free as as early as we could and uh that that's that's probably the best message that you should that you sent. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

But I I just want to tell you, you're what you've been you know, all these years you've been living on less than you made, you got out of debt, and you've invested. And now you're sitting on two and a half million dollars. You win the prize. You did it.

You're a Baby Steps millionaire.

Very well done, sir. And uh the point is

is that good financial planning that creates this kind of net worth with no debt makes you become self-insured.

Okay? I'll give you another example that's not in your on your plate. Okay?

I'm your I'm 65, okay? Sharon and I have

it all written out. We have hundreds of millions in our case of net worth and we're not going to a nursing home.

Something happens, I'm just going to hire full-time staff and put them in my house.

I can afford it. I can hire an MD and put them in the spare bedroom.

Right? It's not a problem cuz I'm self-insured through this. I'm not being arrogant, but the point is the money creates enough money to cause you to be able to live out your golden years the way you want to live them out and you're in that situation without ever touching the nest egg, without being irresponsible or rash. What do you think that is, Dave? Um I feel like there's many times where we will present a mathematical equation of

how someone will prosper. We can say things like, "Hey, you'll have enough money to be able to do this, this, and that." And they're still like, um the light doesn't go on of yes, that's true.

What is that? Where where it's just it's almost like cuz even in this case, I almost felt like he didn't believe us and there's been many calls where we we've we've painted out this this elaborate picture of what someone's life can look like and it's just like it's almost like they don't believe us when we say things like, "Hey, folks are paying their houses off. Hey, if you do this, you'll have a million dollars or you'll have 3 million dollars." Well, it's it's a it's not a good it's got it's a grotesque metaphor, but it popped into my head.

Okay?

And that you you know, they they go in and do an operation and the doctor comes in and goes, "We got it." You don't need You don't need radiation. You don't need chemo. You we got it. And you go, "Yeah, but I'm fighting cancer." No, we got it.

You did it. You won.

Yeah, but I'm fighting No, no, we got it. That's the That's the conversation. Yeah. It it's just take cuz you're in such You're in warrior mode and the battle's over. Lay the sword down. You know? You've been You've been living like no one else. Now it's time to live and give like no one else. >> And trust that the process works.

>> down. You won. Battle's over. There's no one left to kill. Everybody's gone.

You know? It's just But you're still out there just swinging because you you're just in that mode and it Yeah, but you're okay. But you're okay. Yeah, but you're okay. Yeah, but you're okay. And

it just it It's like when you run through the finish line it takes a few steps to slow down. You don't just suddenly come to a stop.

>> And and I think that's that's the only psychology thing I only way I can answer the psychology of it. He really wasn't arguing with us. His brain is just in

saving invest mode and make sure everybody's okay mode. Mhm. Everything he did was to take care of his family.

I I mean, I was traveling overseas, internationally. I wanted to make sure I had life insurance. All of everything was serving his family. It's a wonderful spirit.

And he's like, "I want to make sure." Yeah, but you're okay. Yeah, but I want to make sure. Yeah, but you're okay. And and that that's a wonderful place to be because that's the kind of person who gets there is they get this the blinders on and they're not listening to all the outside world and they're able to focus and get out of debt and they're able to focus and and put money in that 401k.

I mean, that guy's a star.

>> What's interesting was we took the call earlier from the 41-year-old. >> Yeah. And we told him he'd have two and a half million. >> Yeah.

Ray's got two and a half million.

That's true. Yeah. And he's 65. I mean, you know, They're reflections of each other. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like proof text, right? Yeah.

It really does work. Yeah. This is This is what we're doing. And and and Well, what if Yeah, what if? I mean, what if you don't save any money? You know, that you're not going to have any money. Hello, there's a direct correlation between people that save money and people that have money. Who knew?

And so um yeah, you you know, I don't know anything in investments just cuz you don't invest. Hello. Yeah. Yes. But Ray Ray's an investor man. He's a he's a stud. >> He's done the whole $1 million cash.

>> Yeah, that's a little cray-cray right there. You need to get that invested, right? >> Yes, you do. >> Yeah. Wow. But that it's I'm so happy I was able to continue doing the show so long that now I'm seeing these people Yeah.

who are asking me the question, I've got too much. What do I do now? That was not a question in the early days of this show I thought I would ever hear. Right.

They started with you and now they're finishing with you and you see the product of it. >> "Oh, my car got repoed, Dave." Like that's the only question I got in those days.

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Sally is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Sally, how are you?

Hi, I'm good today. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

So, my question is about um debt relief

in a low-income situation.

Okay. What's your income?

Um I get Social Security Disability.

I've been I'm 64.

And I have been getting Social Security Disability for 2 years.

Um it's about $2,700.

>> Oh, 2,700 a month. Okay.

What's the nature of your disability?

>> year. $27,000 a year.

>> per year. Okay.

So >> and that includes a um uh small pension.

Okay. So >> And so you're making a a $2,500 $2,300 a month. Okay.

And um how much is your rent?

It's about $1,700 a year, uh a month

rather. And I I I live in New England, so it's

just the rent up here is crazy.

Crazy. >> I I don't care. I don't know how that math works.

$2,300 - $1,700 equals Sally doesn't

have food.

Right. So, I have about $80,000 in uh between an IRA and an equity account.

And I keep drawing off of that, you know, to make ends meet.

Mhm. What's the nature of your disability?

Uh it's been everything. Physical

A lot of physical stuff.

Heart problems, uh mental disability,

depression. I mean, I'm being honest, you know. So, uh What What keeps you in New England?

Uh I have one adult daughter

Okay. who lives

in the New England area.

Okay. Do you have other family anywhere in the country?

I'm sorry. Do you have other family anywhere in the country?

I do. I mean, my ex-husband is nearby

and he's been very helpful. But my question is, I have this

um $9,000 credit card debt. >> Mhm. Which I mean, I pay basically. Mhm. You know, is there any way What kind of credit card, you know, relief is there?

>> There's not There's not any. You You borrowed money on a credit card and the only credit card relief there is is if um you file bankruptcy, which you're certainly not going to do on $9,000.

Um There's no magic pill that says you're disab- disabled, so they forgive the credit card debt. That does There's no such thing. So, um I also don't think that that's the biggest concern. >> issue. Your core issue is you're draining down the savings. What are you going to do when the savings is gone?

Yeah. I am. I mean, that's why I'm trying to hang on to that. How much are you pulling off of it? >> little as I can. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. You make $2,300 and your rent is $1,700.

Those numbers don't last. How much are you pulling off that 80,000 every month, Sally?

Sally? How much are you taking out of your savings every month, Sally?

Well, a year

I try to keep it like between four and

six thousand dollars a year.

But, uh last year, I had to have my transmission replaced.

And that was $8,000 you know, for that. >> Yeah. And that was cheaper than buying another car. >> Okay, so here's what I want you to fi- figure out, and this is not going to be easy.

Okay? But, there's three or four levers to pull, and everyone everything I'm going to tell you is going to be hard.

But, they're not going to be as hard as the plan you're on, cuz the plan you're on, you're going to run out of money.

And you're going to have a problem. >> That's my fear. >> Yeah, I know. I know. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm just saying the plan you're on sucks. We need a new plan.

But, the other plans aren't going to be without pain, okay? So, plan number part

part There's three or four things and you need to do somewhat of all of them, okay? I want you to come up with some kind of a self-employed idea that you can do with the limitations that you have to create some income.

That's thing number one. Just write that down. I don't care what it is, and I don't As long as it makes you smile and makes you $1,000 or more a month, okay?

The second thing is, you've got to move.

You cannot afford a $1,700 rent, period.

And we need to create The third thing is we're doing those two things so we create a monthly budget that is sustainable, meaning it will last.

Okay? And so if you had $3,500 coming in because you had a little bit of side income and if you had no payments and if you had a rent that was half of what you have now then you can do that without touching your savings and that is sustainable.

That will last.

But the numbers you're giving me won't last and you know that. That's why you called and it's terrifying. I'm sorry you're there. Right. I'm sorry you're there, but what but if you don't act on it, it's going to get more terrifying.

And so we've got to do those three things. We have to create a sustainable situation that the the income minus the

rent minus living expenses doesn't need

savings to be used.

Then number two, we're going to do that by getting affordable rent and we're going to do that by getting It may mean moving to another area of the country. I don't know.

But $850 rent is available out there in America somewhere. Okay? It might not be

in Hartford. I don't know Hartford that well. It's an expensive little town and Connecticut is a highly taxed state, so it's very possible. I don't know.

But um the uh but but I want you to think in those terms. We have to get rent and income

added to this equa- better rent price better income added to this equation so we don't have to touch the savings and then you're okay.

You can be fine.

Then you can write a check out of the 80,000 and pay off the stupid credit card and cut it up. >> That's right. >> And it goes away. That's number four is when you've created a sustainable situation. But today I would tell you just pay off the credit card, but if you stay in this situation with this income and this rent, you're still going to burn up your savings. The credit card's not your problem.

Your problem is your income versus your life.

The way your life is set up now. >> Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, I mean $1,000 would change your world. >> with you. We want you to win. And what I'm telling you to do to move to 850, that's painful. What I'm telling you to do to get a to come up with some kind of side hustle where you babysit dogs or you do whatever, you iron people's shirts or I don't care what you do.

Whatever it is you're going to do for 1,000 bucks a month, okay? It doesn't take a lot. You That's not a lot, but neither one of those things are easy.

They're painful things that I'm asking you to do for you. But, um

you know, you you've got to uh if you don't address this, it's going to unravel on you. >> Absolutely. Yeah, that money's going to run out. Um yeah, this is going to be a major move out of the comfort zone.

Major. And you know, I think the other thing is I um

I I sense that you don't have a large

um strong community group friends.

And so, I want you to search out a good local church there in Hartford. And I want you to sit in the pastor's office and introduce yourself to them and tell them your story. Mhm. And ask them to help you plug in with some of the other ladies there in the church. Not so they give you money,

but so you get some people that hear your story and that you are seen and you feel good and you feel whole.

Connection, connectivity to community, when you're especially when you're battling something that that's having to do things that are uncomfortable is necessary. Well, and there's opportunity there. The more people you're around, people get to talking and somebody says this and it sparks an idea and you go, "Oh, I could go do that, right?" Like all of my major opportunities >> and live in our guest house and babysit our dogs? Yeah.

And you do that for 600 bucks. But, we we didn't introduce ourselves trying to get something from them. But, those things happen when you're in community. >> Yeah.

And people know your need, and they know you. >> Mhm. And they know you're you're trustworthy. >> Yeah, your transmission goes out.

Oh, I know a guy who who can fix that.

>> it's 4,000. >> That's right. That's right. >> Yeah. Yeah, so I I want you That's number four. I want you to search out a good local church, and sit down have a meeting with the pastor. Again, not to ask for things, except to connect me into community. I need more friends.

I need more connection.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Christine is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Christine, how are you?

I'm well, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um hey, so I wanted to get um your advice and perspective. Um my boyfriend

and I, we want to be married and we're not running down the aisle tomorrow, but we're working towards it and having conversations. >> Good. And one of one of the more in-depth conversations that we do still need to have is financial. But before before we like even jump into that, like I want to make sure that I'm coming at it from a really grounded mindset and perspective like within myself first.

Um so like it makes absolute sense to me that like when you get married, you combine your finances together with your spouse. But I'm noticing in myself that I have this little nagging fear of don't become like fully financially dependent on your partner because what happens if like everything goes wrong.

Um and like that fear gets even louder

when I think about potential future scenarios where like if I decide I want to leave my career and stay home with the kids, like that's something I'm open to, but at the same time, like this fear gets a little bit louder. And so like I don't want that fear to be in the driver's seat for these really important conversations that like genuinely I'm excited to have. Well, you are you are very wise in your approach to this. I love your wisdom.

I love that. I I I also think it's it's valid. I think a lot of women feel that way, especially certain types of women who do like to go out and it maybe it's never been your your your mindset to be like, oh, I'm going to be home and maybe I'll stay home with kids, but you like to go out and you like to be doing your thing out there.

tend to do in those situations is I really go back to the facts of it because it really is somewhat of an emotional argument cuz if you think about it, let's go back to what you said. Well, I'm afraid I'll lose my independence. What if basically I stop working and he's the sole income earner, right?

Right, yeah. >> Is that the biggest fear? >> that could be that could be a that could be a that's a fear. Yeah. So, what what you would be worried about is you're at home and what he wants to get a divorce and you're out here and you've been you've exited the workforce for however many years, right? So, now you're struggling to get a job, right? Is that the I like to play out the scenario to as much detail as I can. Is that right?

>> Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, that or like you hear about like financial abuse where people are like, well, all the cards are in his name and he's cutting me off. And >> Okay, so those are two different things.

No, they're I think they're the same thing. Well, one of them In both cases you have to have a voice. >> One yeah, you both >> the preventative medicine. Right.

And one of them is I have a hard time seeing the second scenario which is any sort of abuse because the fact that you guys are talking about this ahead of time, the fact that you're being proactive, the fact that you're not the type to shy away from being a part of it, I don't think you're going to worry about that at all, right?

>> Yes. You're not going to be 8 months later and go, "Well, I kind of felt bad." You're not that person. You're like, "Wait a minute, Bubba." That's you.

Definitely. And then number the first one that we're going in reverse now is the idea that, "Okay, what if I exit the workforce? What if I'm out for 10 years, you know, and something goes wrong with the marriage? I'm left, you know, having to create this whole new world for myself, right?" So, that's when I would go in and I would really think about it.

I'd say, "Okay, well, what what's the job that I'm leaving? Is there any way that I can continue to stay connected to that?" And maybe you're in healthcare, you keep your certifications up.

you're the same person, you're smart today, you'll be smart 10 years from now, right? You're resourceful today, you'll be resourceful 10 years from now.

So, the assumption that you will somehow

go down in value over time and you won't be able to get a job and you won't Do you see what I'm saying? >> And of course you're well aware you get half of everything. Yeah. So, if there's a million dollars in his 401k,

half of it's yours. If there's a million-dollar paid-for house half of it's yours. But the scary part is >> going to be without as long as you've had a say in and are aware of and you're

both voting together and you both are emotional owners of all the decisions all the way through.

So, my wife Sharon's been a full-time mom since Denise was born 40 years ago.

Mhm.

Talk about vulnerable.

Except that she has an equal vote and has had emotionally, practically, and legally the entire time.

I can promise you if you interview her, she will not say she has ever one time felt vulnerable.

Quite the opposite.

Yeah, and that's that's so beautiful.

And so, I guess like coming back to like

when we're just starting to have these conversations, like I I mean like I I

would What are like what are some like advice that you might give to like how do we start these conversations?

Like I have full faith and confidence in him. I don't expect him to like have a curve ball >> You wouldn't be dating him. Oh, wow.

Right, right. Right. >> So, like I guess how how do we step through those kinds of conversations just to, you know, do the groundwork to make sure that we are on the same page and setting ourselves up right for we have this equal vote, you know, that sort of thing. >> I think that you do exactly what you're doing, which is you lead with your heart and what you want for the future.

So, you start by saying things like, you know, I want our marriage to last forever and I want us to have full transparency.

way cuz who can argue with that?

>> Yeah, and I want I want to I want both our votes to count. >> Yes. And because two is better than one.

Um and um and you know, all that. And then you say and then you go, "Okay, let's talk through some of this because the number one cause of marriage problems and divorce is money fights and money problems. So, let's go ahead and figure out if bears kill people in our neighborhood, it's the number one thing they die of, then we need to figure out how to keep the bears away, right? So, um you know, what are we going to do?

What are we going to do?" Well, okay, let's look at debt. Let's look at savings. Let's look at the way you grew up, the way I grew up. Are you a natural saver or a natural spender?

Um and you start to go through some of those things and generally opposites attract, so celebrate the differences.

And not one of you is wrong, one of you is right. But if you're the natural saver, my wife's the natural saver, we celebrate that at our house. I'm also the natural spender, we celebrate that at our house. She gets to do stuff because I'm there, you know, and so we celebrate that. And um so you know, Rachel and Winston, Rachel's the spender, Rachel and Winston is the saver at their house and so on. So, anyway, you just start working that through and you know, it's almost a part

of premarital counseling to go in depth on what do you believe about giving, saving, spending, fun,

retirement wealth, insurance. What do you believe about these things? And let's talk about that and talk about the feelings that come around all of those things, and then start to go, "Okay, I'm going to have to come some your direction from my natural tendency. You're going to have to come some my direction from your natural tendency, and we're going to find a really cool, strong point at the third

point on the triangle Mhm. from there that's that's better than either one of us were by ourselves. Thus, we're getting together. So, you're going to be great. You ask a question so well, and you ask the right question. Yeah, you're going to be intentional. Your brain is going to remain turned on. I'm I'm not concerned about you. I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Both of you could read it. It'll help you with the discussion.

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Brian is in Los Angeles. Hey Brian, how are you?

I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so um I'm just calling for some advice because uh I'm kind of at a crossroads right now. I've kind of achieved my most immediate financial goals, and I kind of don't know what to do moving forward.

Okay. What do you mean? Yes.

So, I got um about 350K liquid. I have

two healthcare businesses that are grossing about 750,000 a year, and I

have a wife and a kid, and I'm paying about 60 to 80 thousand dollars in taxes

at the end of the year. Uh I have about

300 K in equity on my house with 900 thousand left on the mortgage. Uh I don't we don't have any credit card debt or anything like that. The cars are paid off. Um I was just wondering like in my situation, you know, with this 350 thousand sitting in a checking account, you know, Chase and the people who I'm banking with, they're kind of calling wanting me to move the money around but, you know, I worked hard to save it up.

I'm not sure really what to do with that. Yeah, you're Jed Clampett. Mr.

Drysdale's calling.

That's funny. You don't even know what that is. Look it up. Okay.

Yeah, I'm only 30 so I can Oh yeah, you'll have to look it up. It's The Beverly Hillbillies. It's an old show.

Okay. Anyway, the uh Oh my god, I have I've immediately become irrelevant. Anyway. >> with you. I was with you. The um So, way to go. So, you're making your income off

the 750 gross is somewhere around 250, right?

Yeah, it's about 15 to 20 K a month.

That's that's about after taxes including the >> I'm talking about your grow your your taxable annual income from these businesses is around 250, isn't it?

Yeah, something like that. 250 About 20

About 20 thousand a month.

Yeah. Okay. And that that's after tax. I

pull in about 20 thousand a month with distribution. And see, I'm taking 7 thousand a month in W-2 for myself and then my wife is about 2.5 thousand in a

W-2. So, I don't even know if that is No, none of that matters is what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about what your real taxable income is. So, we know it's 10

on W-2 and then you have profit on these

businesses that you own. You know what profit is and that profit is also taxable, and the total of all of that is 60, and in a 30% bracket, that means you're making around 250 maybe 300,000 a year, okay? Somewhere in

there. >> Yeah, my bracket is 37%.

>> Okay, then you should be Yeah, you're you're probably making 300 then. Okay.

So Okay. That That's good. Way to go.

Congratulations.

Uh I do want you to get more on top of your numbers on your business. It scares me that you don't know what you make, but um uh and that you somehow bifurcated that under what you're doing on W-2. I don't have that problem here, and I make a lot more than that on this place. So, um I know exactly where my income's coming from and how much it is.

So, I want you to know that. Mhm. Then um I I want you to take a whole bunch of this 350 and pay down your mortgage. I want you to get your house paid off fast as you can.

And your your your your your

um your instinct on not listening to a bank

who was trolling you um was very wise.

The last thing you want to do is listen to Chase or JP Morgan for anything or Fifth Third. Mhm. You don't want to listen to them for anything. This is just where I deposit money and where I run my checking account and my debit card.

That's the only place I use them for, okay? I'm not using a bank for investment advice. They don't have good investment advice. They give you banker advice.

Yeah, they give you good banker advice. So, you need to sit down with a good broker to do your long-term investing, but we teach people at your stage, and way to go, you're doing extremely well, Brian. Obviously, you're bright guy. Um I mean, idiots don't generally make 300k, and so you know, you're you're you're doing really, really well.

What's the purpose of the 350 set aside in cash? How's it earmarked? >> It's just It's just what what I've been saving, and um I'm I'm I'm at the stage now where you know, I ran everything through chat GPT for the kids are doing, you know, and everything came back that I need to interview some CPAs cuz I really don't know. Now, I'll tell you that Now, you don't need to listen to chat GPT either about investment advice.

Like how is that How is it >> So that 350 is in a mutual mutual

checking account that me and my wife have access to. Good.

>> And then I'm That's not including the money that is in my businesses that will hold it for 6 months. So I don't include that. >> Good. But I don't I don't include that as my money.

That's my dual say. Very good. That's why you need retained earnings in the business. So what we would teach you to do is to get a good investment advisor that has the heart of a teacher and will sit down with you and your wife and teach you about some good ways to put some of this aside.

You need to get some 401(k)s of some kind going and some Roth IRAs going of some kind and there's several things you can do in your situation depending on how your companies are set up.

Uh and then we're going to have an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses set aside. So some of this 350 will still be sitting there and you could call it 50. You have a $900,000 mortgage, I think you said. So I'm going to throw 300 at that and then I'm going to say how fast can I pay off that 600,000 and have a paid for house out of

this wonderful income I have from this company and you're living very frugally. So you're doing a great job. And so, you know, let's pay that house off in 3 or 4 more years and I'm in the meanwhile start some investing for your retirement plans and you're going to become very, very wealthy. You're not going to become very wealthy just dumping 350 in a high-yield savings.

Let's talk about why though cuz somebody listening is like, well, that sounds pretty good to have $350,000 and just sitting in cash. >> Which not bad. It's better than not having it.

But I mean, there's somebody listening going, well, why do I need to invest that? I I I'm I'm afraid of investments. I'd rather just have it sitting in my account. It's not losing money, is it?

And so that's the person that I want to speak to because I do think that it probably feels good to have money there, but you have to think about what that money's doing over time. Yeah. If it's not in a high-yield savings account uh and it's just in a regular savings account, then you're really earning nothing on it. Even if it's in a high-yield, maybe you're at 3.5, but if you invest it, you can have a better rate of return over time.

I think you said earlier 11.8% has been the average return.

>> But that's not normal. But let's just say for instance you took the last 3 years. Okay, 20% of 350,000

and you made three instead.

>> Mhm. So, but 20% would be $60,000 a year, right? Yes. >> $70,000 a year.

Okay, and and and could have made $70,000 a year for the last 3 years on >> That's a lot of money. And so that's another 210.

Uh but instead we made 3.5. Yeah, I made 3% on it and so

um I don't know. What's that More than It's like nothing.

>> More than half, yeah. In other words, you lost tens of thousands of dollars per year by not having it invested. And that's what financial people, like I was trained, call opportunity cost.

You missed the opportunity to make an average of about $70,000 on that for the last 3 years. Not to mention if you'd left it in there, you would have made sev- 20% on the 70 and then 20% on the

140 on top of that, but we're not even talking about that. And that's not normal. That's not every year, but it it it's actual facts in the last 3 years, that's what it would have been. And so instead, you made 3% um which is like $9,000

per year. Yeah. And so >> deal. It's a big deal. >> it's that that's the missed opportunity on your money because it when your money's one place, it can't be another.

It loses the opportunity to go to work.

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>> Nicole is in Tulsa. Hi Nicole, how are you? Hi, good. Thank you. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Thank you. Um I um have listened to you

guys since I was about 17. I'm almost 38

now and you guys have just changed my life. Um just tremendously. So I just am so so grateful.

Um my most basic question is um I'm

currently working on my doctorate program. I work full-time and I just

have very little margin between my schedule and my budget and um I'm getting just burned out and just

wanting to hear from the experts on what you would recommend just to keep staying the course and um to you know, just keep

at it. How much time do you have left in this

situation of working full-time?

>> left. How much How much finish up the doctorate? Um so I have about 16 hours after this uh semester. So I'm I'm pretty close. Um

but uh just you know, pulling teeth to get there. And then dissertation, right?

Um that includes the dissertation. But I'm I have it almost completely written.

So. Oh, okay. And you But you have 16 hours of classwork also?

Uh yes, sir. Okay, cool.

So how What are you going to do? One semester or how long does that take?

Um it it The trajectory is about a year and a half just how the coursework falls uh within the school that I'm at. Okay, so a year and a half. >> It's not a real heavy course load then.

It's not, no, sir. Okay, and so you're running a full-time job, 40 hours? Yes, sir. All right, yes, sir. So, what do you make?

Uh right now I make about 50. Okay, and you can't live on that?

I I can. I've got a very very tight budget. Um but I have about probably, you know, 15, 30 bucks left over at the end of every month. Is it just you?

Just me. Okay.

Um I I want to know more about the money.

Uh you said you've only got 15 or 30. Do you have debt?

I don't. No, so I'm in uh baby step four. Um so I and I've saved up um

already for the school. So, um I have just about what I need uh to finish that above my 6-month emergency fund.

>> Mhm. Um probably my biggest um hurdle is just my rent is it takes um I'm sitting at about 1,200 a month

for that.

It's not as bad as I thought you were going to say. Uh-huh.

So, um you're Are you said four, you're putting 15% of your income away in retirement?

I'm not right now. Okay, so you're not in four. Okay. All right. Okay. So,

there's there's a couple parts to this. The first part of your question is how do I stay motivated, which just sounded more like a just a emotional space of staying motivated till the end. And then it sounds like there's also a financial component, which is also my budget is tight.

Right, correct. >> Um I mean, in this case, let's talk about the budget first. In this case, it sounds like every square inch of your time is accounted for. Am I wrong or am I right? You're beyond right.

>> Okay. So, then the next place we can look is is there anything that you can cut out of your budget? Is there anything that is worth changing for the next year and a half to make this thing better? I'm looking at your rent, but I

think to myself you're probably in some sort of a lease. You've got a year and a half. I don't know that that's worth shaking loose.

So, Right, it just What do you do What do you do for a living?

Sure. So, I I've been working in the mental health field for the last 8 years or so.

So, I've been working in the health field. Doing what?

Right now I'm doing case management. I have been doing therapy. I shifted that just to have a little bit less stress to be able to kind of keep myself going. >> PhD is in counseling or what?

It's actually in ministry. So, it's merging the Christian field with therapy, trauma, all of that. And what are your What are your plans to do with that? Sure. To I'd I'd like to merge it within, you know, therapy as well as shift into ministry as well. So, I know it's not a real high-paying, you know, degree, but I know with therapy going shifting into that I can, you know, nearly double my income. >> know why you couldn't do therapy through the lens of ministry and make extra money. Mhm.

I don't know why you have to take a a backseat just because you use the word ministry in the sentence.

Sure. And that's definitely part of my

goal is to be able to do that. Yeah, and with a PhD you can teach as well.

So, um That's That's part of the goal as well. Okay, we want to make sure we monetize all of this hard work off the back.

And don't, in the name of saying I'm holy or I'm doing ministry, accept less than your worth in the marketplace.

Instead, go be worth that in the marketplace and that is a ministry. So,

you're serving people in the in the counseling or mental health space with a faith-based element

is hugely valuable.

And sought after, by the way.

So, that's not something that you have to make, you know, 60,000 after going to all this work of doing a PhD. Don't do that. So, anyway, I just want to pep talk you there. I think you can do a lot with this and I want you to go I want you to go make 100k plus, okay?

When you're when you're done with this PhD. So, then >> the motivation to continue right there.

>> it's worth it. Then it's worth it to just push on through.

Um but, you know, you've gotten this far and the light is at the end of the tunnel. Lay out a detailed track that says, "On this date, I will be done." Dissertation will be reviewed and and completed. The um classwork will be completed and they're going to put doctor in front of Nicole's name. Okay?

On this date. Lay that out and then you start to go You can almost put that on the wall as a thermometer and then just every month you check it off and work your way through, you know, like a like you were in kindergarten or something.

Um that helps.

If there's The reason I was asking about all this is if cuz you're doing your coursework and um your your working through >> casework Monday through Friday, if there's anything you can do on Saturday to add 1,500 bucks to a month to this situation, it's probably going to make your life a lot better and you're you're not going to die from fatigue because you're young and you've got the ability to push through these things. Nothing we're doing here is out of control and it's not forever.

It's for a short period of time. >> if you can make it a side hustle that you enjoy doing, like if you're flipping furniture, right? If you enjoy arts and crafts, that's a great thing for you to do. Flip a piece of furniture, make 1,500 bucks off it, right?

Or if you enjoy, you know, working with your hands, do something that also feels like a little bit of um a hobby that you enjoy while you're making money. I think that'll make it easier for you. >> a little self-employed idea of some kind. Um or you could stay right in the mental health field and do some kind of uh you know, uh freelance casework of some kind.

bucks a month would be a good trade for your Saturday.

>> And would give you some breathing room in the budget, which also helps you fight through the fatigue and go, "I'm going to make it. I've only got this many more months. I've got eight months. I've got seven months. I've got six months. I've got five months. I've got four months. We're going to make it." And you start to But you got to put it down in detail where your mind believes that this is going to be over.

Because it is going to be over if you plan for it to be over. You don't want to be a perpetual student. No one Well, some people do. No one should. No one should. Yeah, that's a better way of saying that. Wow.

Yeah, you got this. Sacrifice to win.

She's in it. >> sounds like that just You know, the other thing I would do is um make sure someone else in the PhD program knows your story. What you're doing. Sit down and share this.

Even if you just share each other's tears for a little bit or whine together. We're going to whine a little bit. We're going to whine session here.

This is hard and I'm tired. Mhm, that's good. You need somebody to be able to talk to like that. >> That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. That does give you energy.

Because if you're you know, fighting the dragon all by yourself, you can get burned. And and you need you need the other people speaking into you and speaking over you good things that is. So

I mean, that's what you do all day long for other people.

You you know, that's what a case worker does. You speak life into the into the case, into the situation. You bring wisdom to the situation, perspective into the situation and keeps it moving.

So Hey, I got a feeling you're going to do great. I want to hear how this whole PhD thing works out with your ministry in quotes.

Yeah, quotes. That's where it belongs.

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slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Rachel in Louisiana. She says, "My husband and I have five kids between 5 and 15 years old. We have baby step four in place through our jobs, but saving for college seems overwhelming with five kids. My husband and I are in our 40s with over 600,000 in retirement. Would

you recommend reducing retirement contributions to 10% for a season to

throw more money at college?"

I wish I knew how old the others were. I wish I knew how much they made. >> I wish I knew how much they made, too.

It's we're missing some valuable information here. I think at first glance, and I wish I knew how much you already had saved.

I I don't think you're going to make it.

Yeah. Okay, here's why. Let's say you make $200,000 a year.

If you reduce your retirement contributions by 5%, that's $10,000 a year. For five kids, that's $2,000 each.

And you've only got 3 years before the first one gets there. That's $6,000.

You've got 8 years before the next one gets there. That's $24,000.

So, this 5% does not fix your problem.

>> Uh I Unless you make you know, like $700,000 a year, which you don't or you wouldn't have been writing this email. I agree. So, um the uh you know, you've got you're going to have to skin this cat another way because you've got this idea that retirement is blocking it until you actually put the real dollars to it, not the percentages. Yeah. And then you can say that. Now, if you completely stopped it, it's not 10,000, it's 30,000.

You know, that would help, but it's still not going to get you there completely. So, what I'm doing is I'm going to begin having a training sessions with the children on what college looks like.

You want some help? You ready? Set. Go.

Number one reason people take out student loans is not that they went to college. It's that they went to the wrong college. Mhm. One they could not

afford. Love a community college. Love a

community college. Free in most states, near free in the rest of them for the first 2 years. Get your basics out of the way, live at home. Love working through >> college experience. Well, you got to you got to have other parents cuz we don't have the money for you to have the college experience. We're not financing college experience, we're financing education here.

>> That's right. Number one goal, get the education, not play beer pong. But you can work. Oh, that's number two. >> I love working through college. >> choice. We could work. Love it. And guess what? You can earn a lot of money while you're in college working.

Everybody that worked while you're in college, raise your hand out there. All of them just raised their hands in the lobby. Okay? Come on. I mean, seriously, I worked 40 to 60 hours a week. Mhm.

>> I was so glad to get out of school.

So that it was >> So that all I had to do was work.

It's easy. >> Cuz I had to work and go to school. Shut up. I wanted to graduate. I wanted out of it. >> I know that's right. >> not a pleasant experience. It was something I was getting done.

And there's time for scholarships here. They've got time to I mean they got a 5-year-old and through 15, there's a lot of money there for scholarships. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So where do you go to school? Work while you're in school. Get scholarships. These are the three big things. By far the biggest is

where you choose to go to school.

Because that first 2 years is anywhere between 0 and $100,000 a year. Yeah. Oh

gosh.

Think about it. >> I I I'm mad because I did not take our advice and and I understand >> ended up with $200,000 in student loans.

Yeah. Yeah, 265, right?

>> Yeah. Most Yeah. Is that right? I'm not rubbing your nose in it. I'm just trying to remember. >> just saying most of that was from Sam.

So Oh, okay.

I wish I wish we'd have gotten a hold of Sam. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. We'll throw him under the bus since he's not here. Hey Sam, next time I see you I want to see the bus tracks. Okay. >> he's used to it. Yeah.

Uh but either way either way it's what you signed up for when you married him, too. So that goes with it.

It's The thing is this.

You can get a college education if you work while you're in school, apply for every scholarship in sight, go to a school you can afford, which includes probably the first 2 years are in a community college and certainly after that you're doing in-state tuition.

And by the way, let me help you people with this.

No one cares where you went to school.

>> They really don't. No one cares where you went to school.

If someone is hiring based on where you went to school, you don't want to work for those people. They're not smart people.

78% of the Fortune 500 companies, the largest 500 companies on the stock

exchange, eight out of 10 of them, their CEO went to a state school.

Hey Harvard, hold my beer.

I'm not paying Princeton MIT rates

because it puts me into a job. There's no research that shows not one iota of

data that shows you're successful based on where you went to school. None.

You can't find it. It's all BS.

It's all people who are stuck on prestige, not education.

Don't get caught up in prestige.

I'm telling you, it's not worth it. Now, if you've got an extra half million laying around and your kid wants to go to Vanderbilt, fine. If you got an extra half million dollars laying around and you want to put your kid at MIT, MIT, I'm okay with that. Or Northwestern, I'm okay with that. But you got to have the extra money laying around. This lady doesn't.

And this lie that we have sold to people in America that where you went to school is equated with your success is absolute

data-based bull crap.

It does not exist.

So, choose a school you can afford and you will get a good education. You don't believe me? Last time you hired a lawyer, did you ask them where they went to school? You don't believe me?

Last time you hired a cancer doctor, did you ask them where they went to school? Did you ask your dentist where they went to school? No, you didn't. You asked them if you're going to hurt me while you clean my teeth.

That's all you wanted to know. You did you ask your veterinarian before he gave your puppy a vaccination where he went to school? No, you didn't.

I rest my case, boys and girls.

All you care about is do they have the expertise? Did they get the knowledge at the school that they went to to do the job I'm asking them to do? That's the only thing you care about. When I'm hiring, I don't care where you went to school.

I've never hired a person based on where they went to school, and we got a thousand people working at Ramsey. We hire them based on can you do the freaking work?

Do you know what you are doing on the

thing we hired you to do? That's all we care about. I don't know if any of the people sitting in the booth even have a degree, much less where they went to school. Or even if they got out of high school. One of them MIGHT NOT HAVE.

WOW. I'M KIDDING, NOT MUCH. I'm serious, guys. This is a deal. Can you do the

job? Are you a professional? Do you have

the discipline? Do you know the stuff in your discipline? If you're an accountant, you should be able to do accounting, and you can learn to do that at a school no one ever heard of.

Just as well as you pay a hundred thousand dollars a year for. So, it's bull crap.

So, this is the This is the message we gave our kids. We had kid training. But then you have to add in the point that you're making this decision when you're 18. You don't even fully know who you are yet, which is where you get to the point where you're spending this crazy amount of money for a degree that you don't even know if you're going to end up working in that field.

Fifty percent of folks don't even work in the field that they got their degree in. >> Yeah. Also, Rachel, last thing, I'm going to give you one more piece of advice. Download and watch tonight with the whole family, five years old and beyond,

the YouTube documentary Borrowed Future.

Award-winning, we did it.

When your five-year-old reminds you, when they're 25, that you showed them this when they were five, and they said, "Oh, I'm not going into debt to go to school, that nobody cares where I went to school. All I care about is getting an education to do the thing I want to do.

When they remind you of that 20 years from now because they watched this documentary and you didn't think they were watching it cuz they're five, they were watching it.

You You believe me, they were watching it. Ramsey kids will tell you they they learn stuff like this growing up. Where you go to school doesn't matter. What matters is the person in your mirror.

Are you going to go out there, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home?

Your perseverance, your integrity, your tenacity, your raw intellect, your

ability to pivot in the marketplace.

These are the things that cause you to be successful. Your character, not freaking where you went to school.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host. Sydney is in Augusta, Georgia.

Hi Sydney, how are you? Hi Hi Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Um I'm wondering how I can help my husband uh finish paying off our debt and become a baby step millionaire as a stay-at-home mom of two.

Good for you. What's he make?

Uh he makes 80,000 a year. Very good.

Very good. How much debt have you guys got? Um we had about uh 67,000 and we've paid

off uh 30,000 in the last year. Way to go. >> go. Wow.

How'd you do that?

Uh by a lot of couponing and scrimping

and budgeting. Wow. So, you were living on 50, 45?

Yes. Holy smokes. Way to go.

Good for you. Good for you. That's how you do it.

You want to know how to get there? That's how you do it. You were You know, the only difference is you're probably going to dial back the intensity after you get out of debt.

But, y'all it is is you're intentional.

Doing this on purpose. How old are you guys? Uh, I just turned 30 and he's I'm sorry, I just turned 33. He just uh, turned 29.

Okay, very cool. What's he do for a living? Uh, he's in the army. Uh, very good.

Planning to be career or what?

Uh, we're not sure at this point. So, officer, I guess.

Uh, he's hoping to make uh, what is it? Staff Sergeant pretty soon.

So. >> Okay, good. Good. All right, fine.

Well, good. Tell him thanks for serving his country. You, too, cuz you get to go along for the ride. And, um, so, well, you're number one, you've obviously been listening to what we teach. Your number one wealth building tool is your income.

And, um, if from age 30 to age 60 or 70, you

invest 15% of your income, you're going to be multi-millionaires.

I don't know how long before you reach the first million, but, um, you could get on the ramseysolutions.com website, click on the retirement calculator, and play with some numbers to give you the assurance that you're going to be able to do it.

But, um, uh, as a stay-at-home mom that coupons and is tight on the budget and knows how to watch and make everything squeak, you're a home economist, you're cooking from scratch. Uh, the kids' clothes aren't wearing out. They're not sick all the time. Um, and, you know, you're you know, you're saving tons of money by operating your household the way you're operating it. Um, and you can continue to do that without putting a huge strain on the family. Y'all have been very intense.

So, but when you get out of debt, I want you to lighten up the intensity a little bit, but I want you to just run the numbers. The two of you sit down with that retirement calculator tonight. And if you invest 15% of your income from the time you're out of debt until you retire, it's at least $2 million right now.

That's where you'll be, okay?

Um it may be three when you put it down, I'm not sure, okay?

But um yeah, I want you to do that and then as far as being a Baby Steps Millionaire, when you get the house paid off, the value of the house plus whatever you've got saved, I predict you're going to be there in about 10 years.

So, you'll have your first million-dollar net worth in about 10 years. That's what it sounds like based on the math.

Yeah.

Is that okay? We Yeah, we hope so. I mean, cuz we're also going to be looking at if he does not stay in the Army, moving back home. And

you know, that's going to selling our house here, which we're not attached to whatsoever, and then buying land up back

home. Where's back home?

Uh in Texas. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, not unaffordable, I hope.

No. Okay. Very affordable, good. Yeah.

Okay, so and and of course he'll need a an income, a career for what he does after he leaves the military, right?

Yes, he's gotten several job offers that are very high-paying for us, so What's high-paying? What what kind of income?

Um making it probably about double from 160 to 180. That's awesome. You sound worried. What are you worried about?

Uh I'm not so much worried. I just I feel like I'm not really pulling my weight right now because I just take care of our kids and my husband is Oh, wow. Yeah. >> Girl. I say just You're you're raising the next Billy Graham and you just took care of your kids?

Yeah, but Think about Hold on. Hold on a second. Think about for a second Don't tell Sharon Ramsey that she just raised Rachel Cruze. >> Now, okay? Think about for a second all the tasks that you do inside of the home, and think for a moment what it would take if you were to if you were to go away and you had to pay someone to do those tasks.

Yeah. Wash all wash wash all the clothes, wash all the dishes, keep the house clean, keep the kids clean, get them where they're going on time, pick them up. You have to hire a live-in full-time nanny to do that job. We're talking Mary Poppins here. >> Yeah. That is real economic and financial value. It is 100% It's just baked in.

You're just used to doing it. >> around 50 or 60,000 a year.

Maybe more, depending on how many kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, my husband wants five someday, so >> Listen, cha-ching. Yeah, well, that that's a different discussion, but yeah.

But but the point is you guys are fine.

You are not a princess. You are a person who's content. You're adding value, tremendous value to your family economically and emotionally, so that when he's at work, he's not worried about the home front.

Yes, that's what he tells me. Zig Ziglar used to call it the home court advantage. You know, when a team plays on their home court, they've got the home team cheering for them. They have an advantage of several points over the visitor. You know what I'm talking about, right? Yes. When you take care of the household, you're providing a home court advantage. >> Mhm.

And you're playing a key role. >> It's huge. Key role. It's huge.

Let me tell you, the fact that Sharon Ramsey was there and was a solid rock

and wasn't high-maintenance, allowed me to go do this Ramsey thing.

This Ramsey thing wouldn't be there if I had to run home and do maintenance all the time.

Yeah. She never said wait till your father gets home.

They were hoping he was going to get home.

It's a relief. Yeah.

Maybe he'll save us.

DADDY'LL SAVE US.

NO, I'M SERIOUS. I MEAN, that's there was no need that you know, I yes, I did my part as the dad, but I'm telling you that the value that she did there is a

thing and I'll I'll leave you this last one thing and that is Proverbs 31, who can find a virtuous wife?

For her worth is far above rubies.

Wow. And her husband safely trusts her.

And he will have no lack of gain.

You want no lack of gain?

Get you a Sydney.

I'm telling you. If you get a Sydney, you're going to have no lack of gain. You get a Sharon, you're going to have no lack of gain. And we just cannot say that enough. So,

and the problem and and Deloney's talked about this before Jade and you and Rachel have done a great job of packing and unpacking it as well. The problem is that in our culture today, guys can just go win. It's okay.

Gals they don't win even when they win.

So, if you go in the marketplace, you've abandoned your children. If you're go at home, you stay at home, you've wasted your life. And you got you got guilt and shame coming from the stupid people in the culture, no matter what you do.

There's a no win. So, or there's a win-win. Whatever it is. I oh, I can be a great mom and work and be professional and produce in the marketplace. Or, I can be a great mom and that is producing. Or, I can be in the marketplace a lot and produce.

And and Bubba be changing some diapers.

Hello. You know, I mean, this is all there ain't nothing wrong with any of these scenarios. You just have to be confident in the one that you select.

>> Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

you with the heart of a teacher. But, they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find a full-time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So, if you have a money question and want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask

Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained only on proven Ramsey principles. If you don't know how AI works, it's artificial. It's not real.

It's not intelligence, it's artificial intelligence. And it can only regurgitate the data set that you put into it.

And so, if your data set is skewed or screwed up or has bad information in it, it's going to produce bad information out the back.

So, this has not got that problem because we own it. So, there's nothing No data set has been put into this except 3 years of calls off this show and how we answer the calls.

And all of Financial Peace University, and all the articles we've written, and all the books we've written, the Ramsey personalities and me.

And they're all dumped into a the data sets from all of those to answer your questions, and then the AI tool generates the answer, and it sounds really close, like exactly like you're

listening to the show.

Uh, it's not quite as smart alec.

I'm trying to get them to add my smart alec in there a little bit, or my my mean side, like if I've had too much coffee. But so far it's a little nicer than I am. But that's okay. We can go with that.

Rachel's a little nicer over her nicer version of me anyway, so. And Jade is, too. So there you go.

So ask your question at ramseysolutions.com, or click the link in the description if you've been listening on a podcast or on YouTube.

Ask Ramsey, the new AI tool.

Free, completely free. Give it a shot.

All right, Troy is in Toledo. Hi Troy, what's up?

Hi Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Great. Um, my wife and I are self-employed. We're in our mid-60s, and

we're approaching semi-retirement.

Uh, my wife does all the financing, and has put us in a very good position of life. Um, I would want to I'm going to

purchase an RV, so we can start adventuring out. She wants to pay off the mortgage first.

How much money do you have that's a good position?

Well, we probably we have like um 1.25

in real estate. Mhm. Um, we have about

550 in mutual funds, as far as our investment goes. Mhm.

And how much is the mortgage balance?

Uh, about 425

on a 1.7 house.

Okay. That we just built 3 years ago.

And what's your income?

Uh, between we're self-employed. Um, anywhere between 3 and 400 a year. Okay.

Between the two of us. So, you can pay off the house in like 2 years, right?

Well, we're we're on a good track, but we are approaching three to four. She wants to push it a little bit harder. Okay. Yeah. How much is the RV?

Um we're looking anywhere between two and 300.

Okay. >> Hopefully putting a hundred down. Okay.

Oh, financing.

Yeah. Yeah. I would not buy it if I didn't pay cash. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't pay cash for it. I would buy a used one instead of a new one because they really go down in value. Like

unbelievable go down in value.

Um That was a used And um So, and I would pay off the mortgage first. In the meantime though, I don't mind scratching your itch. You have a great income. You've got a great net worth. You've done a great job. You're just not quite across the finish line, and I would scratch the itch but just by renting one for the few weeks or weekends that you wanted to.

I mean, you can rent that same 300,000 for nothing.

Yes. We we have one, Dave. It's just not the one that Oh, you already own one?

Interesting. >> Yes. So, would you be selling that one taking the hundred? Is that where the hundred was coming from?

That's part of the hundred, yeah. Okay.

And and our concern is we're both relatively healthy, and yet we have some concerns that if we wait four or five years, we may not be in a position >> Well, you take the one you got and go on the road.

Shut up. You have one. It I know, but it You you Listen, the only difference is not that you don't get to go while you're healthy. The difference is you don't get to go in the style you wanted to go.

This is true. How old are you? 65 or 66

you said. Um it's I'm 62. My wife is 67. 62. Yeah,

okay. Yeah, I mean Yeah, you're doing great. You're doing great, but do not finance stuff

period on what might happen someday. And

all you're talking about is an upgrade here. It's like I have a boat, but I want a bigger boat. Yeah. And I might die someday. Yeah, you're going to die for sure. And you're going to get sick before you die. It's usually how it happens. So, but yeah, you don't go finance a boat to celebrate that idea.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, she wins the argument. >> Yeah, I agree. Definitely pay the mortgage off first. Throw the flag.

Boom, you're done. I don't finance it.

Victoria is in Washington, D.C. Hey Victoria, what's up?

Hello. Um, nice to you guys. I I just kind of started tuning in not too long ago,

which I regret for some financial decisions I've made in the past. Oh, I thought you said you regret tuning in. I was starting to worry.

Oh, we all feel that way. >> not tuning in sooner. Yeah.

Um, well, I guess about a year ago I was kind of drowning in minimum payments because I had racked up a good amount of credit card debt cuz I bought my house at when I was 22 and I didn't understand the cost that comes with owning a house.

And so, I about a year ago I was looking

through options and I chose to do a debt settlement, which I didn't fully understand what that was, but they promised a lower monthly payment that I could maintain, so I did it.

Um, and I'm currently on baby step two.

Um, and I should have all but two loans

paid off by the end of this year. Good.

And those two loans is which I they call

the debt settlement a loan, but it's there's no interest on it. And then I'm finishing grad school, and um, I finished grad school at the end of this year, and I so I'll have to start paying

all my student my student loans, which are about 70,000.

Um, and that includes undergrad and grad. Um will happen to your income when you finish grad school?

Um unfortunately, well, I'm also getting I'm an engineer, so I'm getting my professional engineering license. Um I'm not exactly certain what they're um what I'm going to get. I'm hoping it's not going to be a a much of a a large It's not going to be a big jump.

>> I make 96. Okay, so why are you getting all these licenses and graduate degrees if they're not causing your income to go up? Uh the graduate degree is more of a long-term hopefully get my income up. Uh it's just that I'm so young and I guess inexperienced that it doesn't necessarily help me now, but it'll help in my career trajectory.

>> How old are you? >> And then I'm 26.

Mhm, don't know if I believe that or not. I want you to investigate. I want you to investigate that because one of the things we found is engineers have the highest probability of becoming millionaires of any career track.

So that's really good. >> I am civil, so we do make less than some, but there That's another question I've been I've been battling with is there's opportunities out there that I could leave my current job and make 70% more than I do now, but I love what I do so much and I >> I don't love it that much.

I could learn to love it a lot for 70% more. Mhm. We're talking about an $80,000 a year raise.

Yes, that's that's what I was going to say. >> Even if you just even if you just did it for 3 or 4 years.

Yeah, definitely. >> Yeah, so I am applying to that position.

Um and >> You never told us You never told us how much the first consolidation loan was for.

Uh that originally was for um it was for

40,000 and I think I owe 35 right now.

>> Mhm. Okay, so you're >> my student loans are 70 and I guess my question is I know that the snowball effect is supposed to pay off the smaller loan, but my student loans are going to have a 6% interest.

>> Don't care about the interest. I care about you getting out of debt in in 20 minutes. Take the new job, make a lot more money, pay off debt quickly. Mhm. That's what I would do. And list them smallest to largest. If you pay it all off in a year, it's not going to matter. Yeah, if you especially if you take the dog the job where you're making double, you're making 180 instead of 96 or you know, 160 and then you live

off 60, you're just just you. Yeah, just clean up the stinking mess. And if you pay it off in 1 year, the interest rates don't matter.

They're irrelevant cuz they don't have There's no actual monetary creation by the interest rate. They don't create any actual money.

Um if you're going to if you're going to keep it around like a pet for 5 years, now we worry about interest rates. >> Mhm. But yeah, you need to get in attack zone. You are being classic engineer, you're overanalyzing.

Hit this with an atom bomb between the eyes.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go Go

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Patrick and Tiffany are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Oh, we're fired up.

>> to be here. >> Welcome. Well, good to have you. Where do you live? We live in Rock Springs, Wyoming. Fine. Welcome to Nashville. And

how much debt have you guys paid off?

$506,700.

WOW! AND HOW LONG did this take? 93

months. 93 months and your range of income during that time? Uh we started at 190 190,000 and we're now at 300,000.

Very cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a maintenance manager in the oil and gas industry. Ah, okay. Yep, and I'm in healthcare. Good for y'all. Well done. So, I'm guessing with that period of time and that amount of money you paid off your house. You got it. LOOK AT THAT, WEIRD PEOPLE! >> YES, SIR. >> 100% DEBT-FREE! YES. Way to go, you

guys. So, what's this house worth? About 650. All right, cool. And how much in your retirement nest egg? About 525.

>> So, you broke the Baby Steps Millionaires barrier. We got her. You're in there. I like it. How old are you two? Uh both just turned 40 or just turned 40 about a month ago. So, you're 40-year-old millionaires in Wyoming.

Paid for house, the retirement is underway, you're making 300 grand, took 93 months to get

the house and everything paid off. So, how'd you get connected to Ramsey? What's your Ramsey story? So, Christmas of 2017, uh my dad and stepmom, they always get their kids themed gifts and that that year was finance books.

So, I received Financial Peace Revisited by Dave Ramsey. I'd never heard of you a day in my life. So, January, cracked the

book, started reading it, and man, it just made sense. You know, you weren't trying to sell me anything. You were just laying things out. I knew my sister got another book by Dave Ramsey, and it was The Total Money Makeover. So, I asked her, "Hey, can I borrow that book?" She said, "Oh, yeah, I'm not going to read that."

So, I read that like a week, and there's the plan. It's just laid out, and man, I

I couldn't believe it. I'm just so excited. So, I approached Tiffany, and she was a little reticent, but took her a little bit to get on board, and March 1st, 2018, we started the plan.

Uh you know, from reading the book, I found out you had a radio show, started listening to that, and I remember the very first week I was listening, a couple from Connecticut called in with the debt-free scream, and I was just like, "What What is this?" I was so confused, but continued to listen to the show, and about 3 weeks in, uh listened to a debt-free scream, and afterwards, you said Proverbs 22:7, "The

rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." And you repeated, "The borrower is slave to the lender" like three times.

And man, it hit me like a ton of bricks.

It took my breath away.

And I was just I was just got so angry cuz I didn't

want to be a slave, and I never realized I was. And so, from that point forward, we were on fire. Started coordinating FPU. I took Financial Coach Master Training, and just Man, we just Wow. >> ate, slept, and breathed this stuff in.

It's an amazing program, and I just love what it can do for people. I never thought a million years I'd be in this financial position where I am today, and I'm just so grateful for your teachings, and just want to spread the word to everybody, and everybody that I meet, yeah, it's always I always make sure it comes up in conversation cuz I just I can't believe what this has done for us. It's been amazing. Thanks. Well, uh Tiffany, when we're through with your husband, we'll send him back.

Yeah. Gracious. Yeah.

It is it's a it's a daily conversation where we live, for sure. >> The Body Snatchers have come. Yeah. How How did you get into it? How did How did you intersect through all of this?

So, he sat me down and was like, "Hey, I want to do this." And I said, "Hold on.

You're putting me on a budget because you spend a lot of money." I got to get out of here. Time out here.

And so, he was like, "Just give me 3 months. 3 months." And so, I said, "Okay." So, we went through our first 90 days and after that, like I found that I wasn't affect, you know, like I wasn't affected much. I was still doing what I was doing cuz I'm not the spender of the family. So, it didn't really hit me much.

So, it was like, "Okay, we're going to do this and put You're going to put yourself on a budget.

we're just very, very grateful that Yeah. he was turned on to you guys.

Yeah, it's been a lot of life in 8 years, you know, we've Carly was 1, our daughter, when we started the program. Our son was born March 20th, 2020 or March 14th, 2020.

Um about 8 months in, he was diagnosed with a real aggressive form of leukemia.

Oh, no. Yeah, it was been a 10-month battle and unfortunately, he lost his battle in September of 2021, but

he was such a such a battler and we we miss him, but you know, so we've been through a lot, but this, you know, was a good distraction after that. Just something to pour into and to keep focused and keep going. You know, I dreamt of this moment for 8 years. I've ever since I heard the first one, it's like, man, we're we're going to get there.

We're going to do it. And and we're here. I can't believe the heartbreak that goes with the the process. So, the highs are high and the lows are low.

Absolutely. I mean, it's very real. >> And we felt them both. Yeah, it just makes us real, bittersweet, and all those words, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Wow. Well, I'm so sorry. Thanks.

And I'm so happy for you.

>> proud of you. Thanks. And I know you brought family with you. I met the parents a minute ago. They're happy and cheering you on. So, who were your best cheerleaders? Who were your best cheerleaders? The one that gave you the book? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think they never thought I'd ever, you know, take it to extremes, obviously. So, >> Did Did your sister ever come around?

>> I was going to ask. >> Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Okay. Yeah, they're babyish, I think, but >> Okay. Someday. Well, they'll get there.

They'll start seeing it what your >> life looks like and it'll happen. Yeah.

Yeah, now now it's just amazing, you know, we spent the past 8 years getting out of debt and now we're excited to be able to live and give and do what we want. >> the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate with all this money? Cuz you're killing it, man. Well, we went to Legoland last week with >> Woo! There you go. Yeah. >> What a What a celebration, right? We get out of debt and go to Legoland.

Hey, so exciting. It's all about who wants to go. Absolutely.

>> We told our daughter once we we hit this milestone, she could pick her own vacation. >> And she did. >> So, she did. So, off to Sandusky we went. >> going to do? What's your next vacation?

Uh we want to do maybe go on some cruises. We did one uh for our 10th anniversary and that was really fun. I think we'd like to do a couple of them.

Go to the Caribbean and >> Yeah. >> So, Good. Good. Yeah. You live like no one else. Later, you can live and give like no one else. You're 40-year-old millionaires >> Wow. >> and 100% debt-free. Do you ever think you'd say that? No.

Not even close. >> Yeah. Nope. I love it.

I'm so proud of you. Way to go. I know the family is, all kidding aside. I Um they're they're they're beaming when I came out there and met them a while ago.

And so, absolutely incredible. So, very well done, you guys. All right, your coach and uh Tiffany, you're uh on board and partner in this whole thing. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is and being a millionaire by the time you're 40?

You know, the key, like they always say, is definitely the budget. But, I think you get that fire in your belly, you get you get that anger and that drive, and you can change and do anything. So, I think you just got to get mad enough and and you'll change. You know, just like you always say, what you focus on is what you win at.

Simple advice, but it it works. Amen.

So, 9 years grinding it. Was it worth it? Oh, Oh, yes. >> absolutely. So worth it. Yeah, anybody listening to this, just do it. Like Dave always says, just just start. Just go.

And man, you it it's amazing what it'll do for you. I can't argue with the fact it worked. That's the way to go.

Absolutely. Because you worked. You worked your tail end off. All right, bring Miss Carly up. You said she's 9?

Yep. Yep. Come on, Miss Carly, you join in on the debt-free scream. Way to go, Legoland. I love it. That's a good suggestion. Well done. All right, Patrick and Tiffany and Carly from Wyoming. What was your son's name?

Paxton. And Paxton, 100% debt-free house

and everything. Baby Steps Millionaires by the time they're 40. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3 2 1

WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

YEAH!

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS, BOYS AND GIRLS.

Watch them. This is it.

>> When I talked to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar.com only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

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It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our scripture today, Proverbs 14:30, "A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones." Theodore Roosevelt said, "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well. Mhm.

He would. He would. That's cool. Very neat. Uh Jeff's in Austin, Texas. Hi Jeff, how are you?

Good day. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Not much. So, this call is mainly about

my mother. She uh is on limited income.

She makes about $1,600 a month from Social Security. And she hasn't made any after life plans. And we went to the funeral home recently and they quoted us about $25 to $26,000.

I'm sorry. It gets It gets It gets better. So, obviously you know, we don't have that kind of money. So, they they said, "Well, we could do this on a payment plan. We could do this for $600 for the next 5 years of your life." And um >> Boy. I don't even know Yeah, I don't even know if my mom has that amount of time.

So, I I uh I'm torn because this is her last wish.

Well, that's why I called in. I wanted to hear your opinion. No, I mean I listen, I love people in my life, but the deal is it's not her She doesn't have any money, right?

She does not have any money. Okay, so she's not talking about paying for this. She's asking you to pay for this.

Well, she didn't She doesn't put it that way.

She hasn't explicitly asked for it, but in a way yes, she does. >> But I mean that's that's the expectation. Like she's not got a house that's going to be sold to pay for it.

She does own her house. It's It's in pretty bad shape though and honestly, I don't know what kind of money we're going to be able to get out of it. >> Well, you going to get 25,000 out of it?

I hope so. I hope at least that, yeah.

>> If she wants to spend her money on her funeral, I don't mind that.

Okay. I wouldn't do that.

But I'm not going to pay for it out of my pocket if I'm you.

Okay. And I think that's absurd. I think she got sold by a salesman.

Yeah, they wanted they wanted $400 for a video that they were going to make with some of her pictures. Like there was a bunch of add-ons and ridiculous things that they wanted to to throw in there.

So, Mom, you did not live your life in a Mercedes and you did shouldn't die in a Mercedes.

And if she doesn't want to sell her home, then that's just if she doesn't want to go to the >> it's no question.

Okay. When she dies, sell the home.

So, I would pay for it up front and then >> No, no, no, no. You don't prepay a funeral ever.

You preplan a funeral, but you never prepay a funeral. You're saying that it's going to take some time from the time that she passes to get the money from the sale of the house. >> lot of time. Yeah, cuz her her house is in horrible condition, so it's going to take a over a year probably to get the money.

Well, we don't know that. You could auction it the next weekend. I mean Yeah, that's true. >> Cuz it's junky.

Just just have an auctioneer come out and sell this stupid thing and pay for the funeral.

on the funeral appropriate to her situation.

There's no gain spiritually in what you spend on a funeral.

There's no gain for the people that are left behind that are grieving over what you spend for a funeral.

And so, no, I really I think she got sold.

Yeah, I think so, too. I think you I matter of fact, I would use a completely different funeral operator. I think this person's a slickster.

Okay. Because I don't think if I'm if I own that funeral home, I don't sell that lady to a $25,000 package.

Because this lady's broke.

And so, I'm not and and asking you to put it on payments. I'm not doing business with this guy.

Okay. I would go to a different funeral home and say I want the cheaper casket. You can buy a casket at Costco, you know that. Yes, I do. Absolutely know that.

>> And they're what? 1,300 bucks or something? I saw it the other day. I couldn't believe it. Costco's got freaking everything. And if you buy six, you get a deal. No, I'm kidding.

>> This is getting worse and worse. But truly, the average funeral cost is somewhere between $7,800 and $8,500.

That's the average nationally. Yeah, so that just gives you >> average including rich people. Exactly.

That's Thank you, Dave. Yeah.

So, it just gives you a a clear indicator that you were being I I would set a budget of five to six grand if I were her. If I'm you, I'd be willing to pay that and be reimbursed when the house sells.

I would not and and and that's after she dies.

You there? Yeah, I'm here. I'm here. Yeah, I thought it dropped. Okay. That's okay.

So, after she dies, we talk to the funeral home and see how long you can wait to pay the bill. A lot of times they'll wait till the estate gets some stuff cleaned up. There may be a little bit of money in her checking or whatever. And you you should have your emergency fund in place. And if you want to pay the six grand under the condition you're going to be reimbursed when the house sells, that's fine. I wouldn't do any more than that.

That's plenty here. Um and I wouldn't do business with the people you did that to cuz that just creeps me out. That's such

You're 100% right. That is such a hard conversation to have.

That sounds like a terrible conversation.

Yeah, I But I mean, she can choose to do otherwise. Yeah, she can choose.

>> But she doesn't have the choice to prepay it. >> Because she doesn't have any money. Prepaying a funeral, by the way, people is really done. Never prepay a funeral.

Preplan your funeral.

So, that's wonderful. That's a gift to your loved ones. >> like buying the burial plots ahead of time? >> buy the burial plots, pick the casket, pick out how the service, write everything down how you want it to go, >> Mhm. and set the budget on it, and they can just write the checks when you die, then that's a that's a gift. People that are grieving don't have to make decisions. >> already been done. >> want the Chevrolet coffin, or did she want the Mercedes coffin? I don't know about Mom. What would Mom really want?

Oh, brother. And you know, write it all down. Don't bury me in the diamond. Wear it, you know, whatever. I write it all down. Tell people. That way you when they're grieving, it's all planned. But do not write a check to the funeral home. Maybe buy the plots if you want to do that. But do not write a check prepaying the funeral the funeral home.

Because from that point forward, you make zero return on your money except for the inflation rate of a funeral.

Which is about the normal inflation rate, about 4 or 5%. >> Mhm. So you're making nothing on your money. Funeral home's got your money for what? 5, 10, 15, 20 years? I don't know.

That's a good point. >> And don't prepay. Just pay it when they die. Pre-plan it is fine. So I would say, "Mom, here's what I suggest. I love you. I think a $6,000 funeral is fine.

The average funeral in America is seven, and you don't have any money. And I got to pay it when you die, and it's got to be reimbursed out of the house, and I need to see the will that says that. And we can set all that up, and I'll go to a different funeral home with you, and we can pick out everything and plan it, and you're going to be just fine. And I'm going to make sure you're taken care of with dignity, and we will all be sad either way.

funeral home to have a profit. Now, does your your thought process on that does that play out the same if you're like if you're wealthy? The the opportunity cost on them holding that money? For sure. Never prepay. I haven't prepaid.

I don't recommend you prepay. If you want to buy the plot, that's fine, but don't prepay a funeral. It's the worst deal ever. The younger you are, the dumber the deal is. Well, yeah, cuz then they're holding the money and they're making money. >> money. Yeah, I mean, if you took $6,000 that you're in your 30, what's that going to be? It's going to be three Yeah. 600,000 bucks.

>> it. Yeah. 6 or 700,000 bucks if it were invested? That's a good point.

>> And and you know, what are you? King Tut? I mean, who needs a $700,000 funeral? I mean, come on. Okay. So no, you don't need that funeral. That's that's a bad deal. No, you just you The opportunity cost is a big deal on this stuff, and this is how these people make a living.

Right. >> And and they do really well. The margins are, as you might guess based on this discussion, pretty incredible. >> Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah, cuz he was about to get sold. Oh, man.

>> Take it for a ride. >> Mama done got Mama done signed up for the whole thing for her son to pay $600 a month for five just a measly 5 years. Easy 60 payments.

>> Oh, boy. Oh, boy. It's like a car payment on a casket. It's a vehicle. A hearse. >> Can't even drive it. Can't even drive it.

We're making too many jokes. Well, I mean, you got to have some fun with this stuff. >> I know. >> People are dying everywhere. You got to have some fun. All right.

So, so we've learned something valuable here. Don't prepay your funeral.

>> That's right. And if you want to pay a ridiculous sum for your funeral, you need to have that ridiculous sum in the bank. >> Mhm. Don't ask your loved ones to pay for that. That's unfair.

That is not right. Mom, you should not be doing that. And the funeral home sales guy ought to be smacked silly.

That's just your That's just irresponsible at a minimum, immoral at a maximum. And so, don't sell people stuff they can't afford, people. It's not a It's not a good way to make a living. You should You should make a living otherwise. You should do something completely different from that. So, wow.

Interesting question. I don't think I've had that one in a while. >> Very fun. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 42. Don't Let People's Opinions Influence Your Financial Decisions | May 8, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney. So, give us a call at 88825-5225 to talk about your life and your money and your relationships. We are here for you. The phone lines are open. All right, kicking us off this hour is Grace in Boston. Hey, Grace. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, so basically, this is kind of a real

mess. I'm drowning. So, I'm drowning in

a lack of transparency over the course of the past 3 years. We sold our house 3 years ago in 2023 when I was expecting our fifth child. Bottom line is um we

had to move because we had real difficulty in Massachusetts finding a an education that wasn't completely crazy.

Um uh we were pretty conservative and I

just found the state incredibly difficult to navigate. So we moved closer to the kids um school, but in the

process we never had a contingency and we just sold our house without having a place to move into. Long story short, we moved into my childhood home, which was sitting uh empty, luckily.

>> And uh we sold our house and made

$700,000 off of it in 2023.

>> Um and I moved half of that money over

to a kind of secondary house that we purchased. >> And so we were left with 325 of which we've spent. My husband borrowed 50,000 from me in 2024. In 2024, I also

borrowed about 75,000 from my family um

my my mother and then in 200 uh 200 two

2025 last year >> I asked for an early inheritance uh and received an early inheritance uh because my husband said that we were going to we

were looking for a house. We were >> um actively for the past two years

looking for a house. So unfortunately

when we sold our house uh there was a delay on the other party's end for closing. So it went from 30 days to 90 days and in that time the interest rate really went up. So we kind of got um our

intention to buy a house really got thwarted. Um and uh in that time period

I don't know if my husband was making any money because we seem to have gone through considerable amount amount of money kind of just waiting to buy a house and so I needed a little bit more money to put down as a down payment asked for 240,000 that was last June and since then have gone through it >> where but it didn't go to it didn't go through to a down payment correct >> no it did not

>> just since June So about 11 months ago,

just daily living. So as I said, we're

in a very expensive state, Massachusetts. Um I was paying for a ton of health care costs. So one of my children is sick. Uh I was paying for

just, you know, different medications out of pocket. In January, I kind of woke up and said, "Do we not have healthcare?" And my husband said, "Uh, you're using the wrong pharmacy." And then in February, I said, "Do we not have healthcare?" and he said, "Yeah, I don't I don't know if we do." So, I immediately went on Mass Health and um

since February, I have told my husband to leave until he can find a job. So, he

owns his own company, was telling me for the past 3 years since we sold our house, he was making $30,000 a month.

Um, and we were in good shape and he was managing everything. And then I pushed and pushed and pushed since December to find out some transparency around some issues and kind of threatened to hire a financial planner which he was not uh into. And I then set a lawyer for some transparency and he said he'd show me the loans. He showed me the loans. And then finally uh 2 months later I found out just last week that he's he took out

650,000 in loans.

>> 450,000 are personal. 200,000 are business all

since 2021. None of which I've known about. So obviously >> where did that 450 go?

>> I have no idea. I I So he said that he's

made a dent and he's managing the debt.

And I said, "Can I see the whole profile? How much you actually took out?" And that's when he said he showed me it was 650. He's paid in the past few years 200,000 towards that debt.

>> So you guys are almost a million dollars in just consumer debt from loans.

True. >> Okay. And >> Okay. So, >> this is >> But this is all uh new to me. This is all extremely new. >> I know. But Grace, this is all new to you. And your husband borrowed more than half a million dollars, lied to you about it, and all that's true. Okay.

100%. >> And you borrowed 240,000. Well, I guess from you got it from the inheritance.

Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. Not to pay back. >> But here here's what I want to point out.

Like you you have your mess is very much

financial. No question. But your mess is much deeper than owing a million dollars, right?

>> Meaning it's the lack of communication.

>> Meaning like the moment your husband took out a $50,000 loan from his wife, you stopped being his wife. You became his banker, >> right? and you became his his like the

whole dynamic here is such a mess,

>> right? >> Yeah. Um, can I just can I just add one thing? You're right. When we when he asked for me that $50,000, it was literally one week after we moved all of

our stuff into a rental while we were

waiting. He said, "Let's just rent a place until we can find a place." And >> but the language you used was he borrowed 50,000 from me.

>> Yeah. And you're >> Yeah, he borrowed it. He said, "I'll pay you right back. I'm just" But that's what John said. >> That's That's what I'm saying. Like I would I can't ever imagine asking my wife to borrow money cuz it's all ours,

>> right? And if if if she's going to say, "Hey, we're so broke. I need to go ask for an early inheritance like Old Testament style." I I would we have to

sit down. We we would talk about that and we would make plans for what we're going to do next.

>> And we're not perfect, don't get me wrong, but that's what I'm saying.

you you're running two concurrent businesses inside your house. You're both spending out of control and you're both getting money from different places. Sometimes telling the other person it's done, sometimes not. His his hole he's dug is way deeper than the one you dug, but y'all are both digging your own holes.

>> Mhm. >> Right. So like you've got a huge mess.

How can we help?

>> Uh right. So,

well, I mean, I'm fortunate to have the house that I grew up in and that's where we're living. >> Okay. But why we're living the rental go? Do you say there was something about a rental? >> You rented and you bought another house.

Like, what are y'all doing?

>> Yeah, correct. He told me, "We haven't found a house." This was back in 2024.

We haven't had a found a house yet, so let's just rent a place. >> But you were already in a home, right? >> But you were in your childhood home, right? >> Yeah. But he just, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know the financial mess we were in. And he said, I know you don't want to live there. So, you know, it's a >> Okay. So, you're not in your childhood home right now. You're in a rental.

>> We are back. That was 2024. Now, it's 2025 26. We're in my childhood home.

>> Okay. Yeah. You So, you >> your rental year rental. And you had $250,000 that you took from >> And then where where is you said we went to buy another property with that 250.

Where did that go?

>> No, we we I just we lived on it the past

few months. >> You know what, Grace? We're we have to head into a break. I want to keep you on the line cuz I do want to kind of untangle some of this to really help you cuz I we want to be able to give you ahead >> a plan. Um so stay on the line. Um, and

we will, uh, yeah, we'll come back after this break, um, to break down a little bit more of the financials to get you guys on a path. And then definitely the relational side, which John can speak into, cuz I think that that is, um, there's a gaping hole there and both need to be fixed and talked about and addressed. So, we want to help

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All right, we we are back and we're going to go back to Grace and she's in Boston. And to recap the call, if I can,

there's a lot of details. So, Grace, if I don't get this correct, I just want to make sure. Go ahead. >> Um, you're married. You guys back in 2023

sold a house but didn't have a house.

Um, and so there's been a big mixup within taking money from loans, inheritance. Um, a lot of things have happened even medically this past year.

And all in all, close to a million

dollars in just consumer debt loans. And

that's kind of where we ended, I guess, to a degree. Does that all sound pretty correct? Okay, >> it does. I I just want to add a couple things. Um, factually, he had been divorced uh three times when I met him.

Uh he had also been bankrupt twice prior to meeting him and when I met him he had four boys from two prior marriages. So they're grown up. They don't he doesn't pay alimony or child support at this point in time to that uh extent but we've been married for 16 years.

>> So >> and we have our own five children. >> So Grace, let me

can I talk to you directly? But you know that like I'm on your I'm on your team.

Is that cool? >> Of course. >> Okay. Um, what you just told me gave me

even more fuel to the fire I was feeling

during the break.

You married a guy that has been a financial disaster, right? He's really struggled. He also had kids from multiple like you you knew who you were signing up to do life with. And yet

you have continued and by the way he's not on the phone so I can only talk to you. you have continually

said well whatever I trust you you said this and so I want you to also hold some

of the respon a huge half of the responsibility here in that I didn't ask

questions I I started spending money I burned through a4 million dollars in three or four months paying medical expenses without even asking the question do we have health insurance that's not his fault >> right >> no no 11 months >> or 11 like whatever 11 months, that's still a lot of money to just rip through, right? And not to sit down with my 16-year spouse and say, "Hey, we have

this big thing coming up with our kid.

We need to navigate this thing together." >> Right? And so, it's it there has to be a not only do you and now you're threatening him to hire a lawyer. I want to see transparency. I think the the only way you you guys can even have a prayer to make it through the financial mess, much less the relational mess, is that you sit down at the table, both of you, no threats, no none of that stuff,

and both of you say both of us have contribute to contributed to this. I for

a year had a free house to live in my childhood home and I complained about it. Didn't want to live here. And then he went and rented something. We had no money and then we did this and we bought this other house, but we're not going to live there because that's our special rental. All both everything just has to stop. Everything has to stop and say we have created a mess. The only way forward is if we get on the either we

divorce because of the financial infidelity or we have to say we have to

live differently starting today. Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Mhm. And if you don't h if you don't feel any shred of ownership over the position you're in, there's no path forward for you because you're just going to walk in and blame and blame and blame and blame and he's going to either shut down like he's been doing the last 15 years or he's going to head off on a separate path. And so both of you have to sit down and say, "We have created a mess. We haven't asked the right questions.

We have lied to each other." Or he has to say, "I lied to you." Whatever.

>> Do we want to build a new one? And here is all of the excavated um foundation from the old marriage. We're starting at dirt. Do we want to rebuild a new thing together? You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> It's that level. >> And I would say on your end, Grace, I mean, tell me what you think of this of Yes. He Grace, you know, I do I'm with John. Like there was a level of responsibility that Yeah. you didn't take, but also he did hide

>> half a million dollars. >> Um Yeah. Oh, I mean Yeah. Even more. Um

so the trust is broken on both ends probably more so maybe more so on your end and so learning a path forward to

rebuild that trust because the goal will be you guys working together and if that takes a journey and probably it's going to take a lot of therapy and all of that right to rebuild that trust um that's okay that's going to take time but the goal by the end of this when you guys sit down and say and do everything you know what John was just saying the end goal is that we are a household and financial potentially in big decisions and everything that falls in that bucket. We are doing this together. We don't make decisions about money without each other and I would say even more of a microscope because of his past financially of how he's act I mean of how he's handled money.

He's filed bankruptcy twice.

more scrutiny that every purchase we are going to we're going to be on a on a communication level that is probably more strict than the average couple out there. Rachel and I have sat with Dave and Sharon and Sharon that was that 30 years ago was their bankruptcy and still to this day Dave and they have they have resources till the end of time and they still talk about major purchases together because that core >> that core seed was planted 30 years ago of I didn't know how bad this was and so

from here on out we agree that we're going to talk through these things together. So, so that's that's the goal for you guys from a marriage pers perspective, Grace, from our position, like what we see is what we want for you all. But financially, how to dig out of this. Um, what are you guys making right now a year? Like, are you working? Is he working? What's going on with income?

>> Well, see, this is the thing. Just to back up, I did not just fall off of a turnup truck. I asked questions. I hired

financial advisors. I tried to do a Sunday night meeting with him every week and he'd fall asleep. He would say, "He's too tired. Now's not the time." This has been going on for not just three years, but 10 years. So, we sold two houses before that just to kind of make ends meet. So, it's it's been a pattern where he scorched the communication issues. So, in terms of me taking ownership of my stuff, yes, I do.

And I think that I agree with you, but it's hard to talk to someone who is constantly stating things that are untrue, like he makes 30,000 a month,

which maybe that was true during co or maybe not right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I don't know cuz I ask him, could I get some bank uh transparency?

Can I just see what your the stream of income is? And he always says, it's complicated or I'm working on the numbers using the >> jar. Let's take it out of money. Let's say that he has a history of cheating on his on his past wives and then y'all get

together and every week you want to sit down and talk to him and say, "I want to reestablish trust. Can I see your phone?" And he says, "Absolutely not." And all of a sudden he you you see hotel receipts show up at the house. And you're like, "I didn't stay there. Who's there?" And he goes, "It's complicated." Would you stand for that?

>> No. >> No. So, what I want you to see is like when I say responsibility, absolutely.

You've been trying for 10 years. Panning back, we've been doing the same thing.

We've been trying to run the same play for 10 years and it has never worked.

>> Mhm. >> Right. That's where the ownership is. I don't want to say this is your fault and you're you I want you to just take ownership.

Okay. I've put up with this for 10 years. I'm done putting up with it. >> Yeah.

And then when it comes to the financial adviser, I've hired a guy, I've hired a woman, and neither person is right. They're always >> Yeah. And that's going to be his. So Grace, real quick, we have Yeah, we have about a minute and a half.

So I want to just real quick. No, you're good. How much are you guys making right now? Do you know what he's making?

What are you making? >> No idea. No idea what he's making. He said 30,000.

He said 20,000. Now it's 10,000. It ranges.

sued. >> His company is falling apart right now.

So he's getting sued. >> So what is under your name from a debt perspective? Cuz right now in my head, you guys are two separate entities. And we kind of were like you that doesn't need to be the case. It doesn't need to be the case right now because of everything. >> You're not safe. >> But what are you >> I don't have any debt. I don't have any.

>> But your your your mom, right? You you borrowed $75,000 from her at one point.

>> Yeah. No, I don't have any debt right now. I just have this Cape Cod asset right now that I'm trying to keep. It was going to be foreclosed on because he wasn't making the payment. I took ownership of it three months ago.

>> Is your name on the deed >> now? It is. >> It is now. And how are you is it paid for?

>> No, I mean the paying the how are you going to pay the mortgage every month?

>> I just am tapping into that early inheritance and I have maybe four or >> 500. So, are you planning on going and making an income?

>> Um, I make very little money and I have

uh I teach on the side and then I have some sort of >> So really, so my my advice for you of what I feel like what we can say right now is yes, keeping everything separate right now. >> Um, and you have to take care of your Grace. So yeah, you are probably going to have to go make an income because this 250 and the way it's been the pattern in the past, it's going to be gone in 3 months if you're not careful.

And so you need to start getting job. You need to >> be doing a budget and you need to be taking care of food, shelter, utilities, transportation. And then the whole mess of the marriage and his finances is going to have to be untangled and that's going to take a while and probably some professionals to step in and help.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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Baltimore. Hi, Summer. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, how are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. Um, so I was wondering should I

accept financial help from my parents for tuition knowing that they're in debt? Um, I am so grateful that they want to help me. Um, I just I feel so guilty knowing

that accepting that money knowing that they're in debt. I'm not sure exactly how much debt that they're in, but I know that they have consumer the house and car loans and things like that.

>> Okay. Are How old are you, Summer?

I'm 23. >> You're 23. So, is this your first time

entering college? Are you getting a master's? Like, what what are you going after degree-wise?

>> So, I already got um my two-year degree

and I cash flowed that. I finished my third year cash flowed it. So, I only have about a year and a half left. Good for you. >> I've paid Yeah, I've only I've paid my tuition so far throughout, but um I think the burnout is starting to hit me and they're noticing. So, they're getting a little bit more adamant about helping me with school. >> Oh my gosh. Well done, Summer. So, you've like literally like worked your way through.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's amazing. And so, then you've had conversations with them that it's just kind of tough and they're like, "Hey, let us help." >> And what are they saying they want to help with? Are they wanting to pay for everything outright for the next year and a half or one semester or

>> They are wanting to help with half each semester. >> Okay. Okay.

I So for me, Rachel, hop in here. For me, Summer, man, I think every friend I have outside

of this ecosystem that I where I work.

>> Mhm. >> Has some sort of consumer debt.

>> Yeah. >> Whether it's a mortgage that they I've got one friend, I take that back, one friend who's a banker and he just thinks

it's dumb to have personal debt. But beyond that, every friend I have and it's a values judgment, right? They all make great money. They just choose to live their life differently than I do.

And so for me, the question would be less about we have a different value when it comes to having a card to loan versus not. And the question I would ask myself as a kid is, are my parents harming them? Are are they doing something that I know is going to be detrimental to them? Or do they do they

have a lot of money? They have pretty good money and also they make car payments every month.

>> Yeah. So that's where I kind of feel like I get into a rock and a hard place because I know that they're not fully set up for retirement. Um and that's what gives me a lot of anxiety um

accepting that kind of money knowing that they could be putting that towards their own retirement but they they choose not to. They >> but they haven't chosen to but they haven't chosen to in the past though, right? >> Yeah. going to >> Yeah.

that it wasn't decided because of you're in college and they want to help with that and they stopped their retirement to help you. They were never going to do it in the first place probably. >> No. No, they weren't.

>> Yeah. >> They still don't. >> I think your heart is great and I would probably feel the same way if I'm like golly. So, I think trusting your gut is what you need, but I also don't want to put guilt.

on you. you you've not made these decisions for them. They have made them.

As your parents, they have offered to help. And >> I don't know, there's a part of me that I'm like, they're making these decisions. I don't think this would change their decision- making one way or the other. So, it's not like you are

>> adding to this, you know, I don't know, there's you're stopping some motivation of like going in the right direction.

But again, I know you don't want to keep digging them deeper in it. There's a part of me that would accept it. Is that bad, John? I think John is a psychologist. >> I I would I I mean, I I would I would take somebody's help. I think the um

man, I've mentioned this several times the last few days on the show. Um a friend of mine, Becky Kennedy, who's a psychologist in New York, she goes by Dr. Becky, she reframed guilt for me.

So, I'll ask you this question. Is it against your values to accept help?

Do you hear me, Summer?

>> You know, you cut out there. Is it against your values to accept help?

>> Is it Is it against your personal values to accept help? >> Period. Yeah, it sounded like there was more. There was >> question mark. I think you could out just yes or no. >> Help with what? Help with what? Yeah.

>> Um I guess not.

>> Okay. Is it against your personal values to pay cash for college?

Um, no. >> Okay. Is it against your personal values to ever accept money from somebody who is in debt?

>> No. >> Okay. So, if those are your values, then

the thing you're feeling is concern and and and frustration with your parents, and you're choosing to take their issues and try to carry them on your own.

>> Mhm. And if you as a 23-year-old are already doing the math and you're like, "They're probably going to be living with me one day." That might be your reality, right?

>> Mhm. >> Um, and also maybe not, maybe they don't tell you everything.

>> Maybe you don't know they have a pension or what they like. Who knows what their situation is, but if you're not doing anything that violates your own values, and by the way, if it's against your values to ever take a dime from somebody who doesn't who who is in debt, then don't take their money because that would be a violation of your values. you'd feel guilty cuz I violated my core values. If it's not, >> then I would be grateful for the gift and go on about my life.

>> They're going to start asking me what my grades are and why >> and you just you've been doing it on your own, you want to grind it out for 18 more months and be finished. Then just stay on the path >> or they expect to be paid back at some point, right? >> Yeah. They're gonna call you and say, "Hey, where's our money?" >> Yeah.

borrowing money versus the it being a true gift would be a >> Yeah. >> No, not at all. That's would be a >> no. Yeah.

sit down and have the conversation as a 23-year-old, I can tell you it's probably not going to go well. But if you say, "Hey, I would love this gift.

I'm concerned about y'all's financial situation." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm curious, Summer, how do you know that they're in a bad spot? I mean, I know you mentioned car loans because maybe in passing they've talked about it, but how do you know that they're not contributing to retirement or, you know, these kind of things that you've thrown out? Have they told you or you guys have talked about it?

>> Um, I'm nosy, so I ask I ask if they

have a a Roth IRA separate than their 401ks and um they don't really know what it is, things like that. Um, I know that they have 401ks with their with at least my dad does with his work. Um, and I've seen it, but again, it's not um, it's

concerning to me for their retirement. I get I get worried for them because they've worked so hard, too. So,

>> no, absolutely. And I think one of the best things, you know, and it sounds like you guys have a good relationship that you can at least have somewhat of these conversations. And not that you're going to try to change them because that does no good of really pretending like you can come in and swoop in and save the day on their financial journey.

money, you know, those kinds of things.

And, you know, and bring it up in conversation of like, man, >> debt just seems to bother me. I don't know why. I don't know where that comes from, but like what do y'all think about, you know what I mean? And just have like just more c, you know, a casual conversation with your parents because it sounds like you guys can have those.

systems at which you've placed money which might be different than them and actually again not in a weird teaching way but open up and talk about it and they may actually learn something >> or just something as simple as I'm nervous to take this money I'd rather see you all invest it for your retirement and see what they say to that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So Summer, you're awesome.

We appreciate the call. Um, yeah. If something goes sideways or crazy, call back on a day John's here and he can he can help untangle that. Thanks for the call, Summer.

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All right, let's go to Becca in Louisville. Louisville. Louisville. Hey, Becca. >> Hello. >> Welcome to the show. >> Hello. How are y'all doing today?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, my husband and I just got out of debt two and a half weeks ago.

>> Congratulations yesterday. Thank you. Well done.

>> My car caught on fire yesterday.

>> Of course it did, cuz why not?

>> And I was wondering if we should go into debt for our new car. >> Of course. Yeah, for sure. Do that.

>> Stop. >> No. Becca. >> Becca. Oh, no. Okay, so what happened to the car? What causes it to catch on fire? >> You shouldn't drink gasoline and smoke at the same time.

>> So, actually, I was at my OB appointment cuz I'm also almost seven months pregnant with our first baby.

>> Oh my goodness.

Well, congratulations. >> I went inside and they were in the and they were talking about a car on fire outside. I thought nothing of it. Turns out it was my car.

And >> um we think it was a battery short or something like that, but I mean there's no way to really know for sure when your car catches on fire why it was on fire, but oh my gosh, everyone was okay and that's good. So >> that's terrible. Okay. Did insurance like jump in at any point?

>> So we don't think so. Well, we only had liability on the car cuz it wasn't worth very much and we didn't owe anything on it. >> Okay. >> So, we're probably not going to get anything from it, but we do have about $5,000 to spend on a car.

>> Well, beautiful. >> Um Okay. >> And the reason that I'm calling really is I feel like I may be being emotional about getting into debt. My mom and my

sister, they're both um also Dave Ramsey

fans and they are also debtree. And I

was just think like they were saying, "Well, Becca, you know, you're about to have a baby. You want to make sure you have a reliable car and that it's safe

for you and your baby and you don't want this to happen again and within the next few years." So, maybe you should >> I agree. Put a down payment down on a car and get something nicer.

>> So, I'm just wondering if I'm just being too emotional and and I should go into a little bit of debt. >> No. No. You know us too well. We're not gonna We will never steer you that way.

And I agree with them. I don't want this to happen again. Okay. I don't want your car to catch on fire. So, like we can agree up on that. >> Um, >> and they're tried to love you. Well, >> this is their >> they have the best intentions.

>> I'm just wondering if I'm being a little bit too emotional because I literally just got out. >> Listen, as a guy who's had a wife who's been seven months pregnant twice, I don't think there's such thing as too emotional. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> You're right on track.

>> You are you're perfect just as you are.

and your motherly instincts of like, "Oh my gosh, I want I want everything to be safe." But let me tell you, there's safe $5,000 cars out there, Becca. Just so you know, like when we were kids, well, not even me. I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, even when my parent in the 70s. I'm like, "No, everybody just it like so there's a range on what safety means." And for some people, safety is a brand new car. to some people, you know, reliability on X, Y, and Z is what like

that can mean a lot of things for a lot of people, but I could tell you that there are Honda Civics out there that are as safe as they come, right? Camry or a Camry or like, you know, you're you will find you can find a safe car. Now, do you want to drive a $5,000 car your whole life? No, of course not. So, my >> I mean, I wouldn't care. So, >> I I drove a $4,500 Prius with two kids

in it >> and I'm a big tall guy. Yeah.

>> And I was in Texas and it was it was a season of shame for me. But that car was awesome and it was cheap and it got incredible gas mileage and it's still on the road today.

>> It's still out there.

>> I totaled it and they I repaired it and resold it. So like like all I have to

say is let me let me let me phrase it this way. Had your car not caught on fire, were you going to go buy a brand new car anyway?

>> No. >> Okay. Consider this your first big post baby step to challenge by the universe.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yep. And I know that's hard. >> Do you have other Do you have other cash available besides this 5,000 just for like medical stuff or like I don't know.

I'm thinking through the baby and all of that. I mean, technically, yes. Okay.

But I mean, >> well, good.

Yeah, that's a good thing. Like that I I would want some level of emergency fund, especially if you're going into labor and deliver, which is great. I'm not telling you to spend money. I just want to make sure that this $5,000 isn't the only thing keeping your head above water financially. How much is in the other account just as an emergency fund?

>> I mean, we have probably another 1,500.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, I'd probably buy a $3,500 card. How much how much did you guys make a month?

Like what were you put? Let me ask this, Becca. How much extra per month were you

throwing at debt 3, four months ago that

you now have in margin because you're debtree?

>> So my husband's he's a firefighter. His

salary is what was paying for like our living expenses. >> Okay. And then all the extra money, well not extra money, but the money that I make with my job, which is only around anywhere between a,000 to 2,000 a month because I do contract work.

>> Okay. >> Was going towards debt.

>> So, but I mean that's not going to be coming in for the first few weeks after I have a baby. That's also what made me like kind of freak out. >> 100%. But will you have $2,000 in May and June?

>> Most likely closer to 15 probably. But yes. >> Okay. >> Is there a possibility for two months?

And and I know his partners will get on him. Could you drop him off at the fire station?

>> Well, I I would I would do that, but he drives a manual car, and I can't do that. >> Oh, okay. Oh, >> well played, husband. Well played.

>> I'm going to get the stick. >> But we I mean, we have we have a we also have a farm, so I have a farm van I can drive for now, but there's nowhere to put a baby in that car, if that makes sense. >> Sure. Totally. >> But for two months, >> I need a car right now. This is a I need a car for when I have a baby.

>> Perfect. That's great. Well, so what I would say probably, Becca, honestly, is I would drive that farm van um until you

have the baby and then that and then

hopefully you'll have three to $4,000 saved before the baby comes extra than

what you have right now. And so let's just say it's let's say it's three grand

and then you have five grand for the car. I would probably wait and buy an

$8,000 car or even, you know, I would, you know, buy an $8,000 car in

three months. >> Yeah. Once the baby comes home, everything's good and everybody's rocking and rolling, then y'all go get an $8,000 car. >> Yep. >> And take that van up to the fire station when those guys are sitting in their recliners. And by the way, I I'm making jokes, inside jokes to my friends who are firefighters, but have those guys clean that van out for you and make it awesome.

>> Sounds great. >> Yep. Yep. So that that's what I would say. I would not buy anything right now and I would save, you know, $1,500 $2,000 in May and June and then go get a

$8,000 car. And $8,000 you can get you can get cars. >> You can do great with 8,000 bucks. >> Yes. Um so that's awesome. Well, Becca, I'm proud of you. So stick to your guns.

Don't fall back in. You can do this. And I promise you and your baby, you guys will be safe. All right, let's go to Sarah in Dallas. Hi, Sarah. How can we help? >> Hi. I just I wanted some objective adi advice on whether or not I should spend

$6,000 to get a certification that will

advance me in my career passionately, but I won't be actually making any more money. >> What does that mean?

>> So, I am a teacher and I love obviously

working with the kids, but the content that I'm teaching right now is um feels

kind of like beating my head against a brick wall. and I want to I already have my masters. I want to go back to school um to get 18 grad hours in English. That

way I can teach college level English.

>> Are you able to teach college level English? My mom was an English professor and she just retired. That's one of the single hardest jobs to get right now on a college campus.

>> Yes. So I would be teaching dual credit which would be on my same high school campus. >> Okay, great. >> Uh it Yes. I know I would be able to roll into that position in at least two the next two years probably. >> What's the stipen for that? Or is it just the same?

>> It it would it would be basically the same. >> Okay. I honestly if you have cash and

it's 6,000 bucks and it's going to move you to a position that's going to allow you to teach what you want to teach and give you 10 years of like work satisfaction doing a thing that you love. I I don't have a problem with it. >> Yeah. Do you have six grand, Sarah?

>> Yes. We um I I would have it. We would never borrow it. We would be able to work it into the budget and have it. I guess my main question is because I have uh I have three kids and 11-year-old twins and a four-year-old. And so when I'm looking at the next five, six years, I'm looking at braces and cars and >> well, y'all y'all work it out at your at your house. Like I I have a bunch of

guitars that if I added them all together would be more than 6,000 bucks.

But I do that cuz I love it and we could afford it, right?

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and we are hosting this hour of the show. So give us a call at8825-55225

and we'll be answering your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Dominic in Pittsburgh. Hi Dominic,

welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys. Um so so I'm graduating

college this spring from West Virginia University and I just got with like a week ago I just got a job offer for $85,000 for an engineering job.

>> Nice. >> In Newport News, Newport News, Virginia.

So, it's for like a naval shipyard. So,

I've never actually been to the area before, and I'm trying to figure out if that's enough money to move there and actually start building a life without putting myself in a bad financial situation. >> $85,000.

>> Yeah. >> As a single 22-year-old.

>> Yes. >> Uh, >> yep. I think you're good. >> Yeah. Unless you're trying to like go back and forth to the moon, you should be good, brother. How much debt do you have? >> Okay. Uh, well, I actually have no student debt and I have a paid off car.

>> Nice.

>> So, you just need to know that like half of America just drove their car into oncoming traffic because they're trying to support families of three kids on $85,000. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The median, just to give you a perspective, the median household income is 62,000 in America right now.

>> Household, that's that's two spouses.

>> Okay. Yeah. Honestly, I've I've been doing a lot of research because I'm kind of I'm kind of I'm just nervous about moving to an area that I've never been to, especially because I mean I've I've live like I'm going to college in West Virginia. So, >> what part of Virginia are you moving to? >> West Virginia.

>> Uh so, it's close to Virginia Beach.

It's like the southern coast. It's like Norfol and Virginia Beach area.

>> Yeah. Down by the Trident. Like, hey, I would get a one-bedroom apartment.

>> Mhm. >> And ask. >> Yeah. I was looking at onebedroom apartments and looks like they would be about $15 to $1,600 a month.

>> That's about right. >> That's about right. >> And don't furnish it with a bunch of stuff. Listen, right now >> in a really nice house on our back patio, my wife, me and my wife and my son, my daughter were still asleep. We had breakfast this morning on a box with

a with like a sheet over it.

Okay. And I mean, if it works, it works.

>> That's what I'm telling you. Like, we need to I need to buy some outdoor furniture. That's totally on me. And my wife's been after me to do it forever.

But I want you to know like we had a great family breakfast this morning over a box with a sheet over it. So you're going to get yourself into trouble if you get the nicest apartment or you go try to buy a house in a town you don't know anything about and then you try to furnish the whole thing like all bananas. Um don't do that. Go in as low and slow as you can.

And also ask your incoming firm if they have a real estate office. A lot of those folks are do they have places where they can say hey this is a great neighborhood. This is a good apartment complex etc. Like every place I've ever moved, they always set me up with somebody who could help me navigate that system.

you're good to go. I would take and you'll continue to Yep. move up. It's amazing. >> All right, let's go to Cheryl in Fort Lauderdale. Hi, Cheryl. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um, we've been pushing along baby step

two and I am literally down to just I paid off credit cards, I paid off a heliloc, I paid off one car payment.

Good for you. >> And now we have one more car to go.

Thank you. Um I realized part of all this I was supposed to pause on um contributing to my kids college funds and I looked into it to see if I could pause it and I can pause it and technically I can even take that money out. In the state of Florida, they have this sort of prepaid college plan that you can pay into that I did when my kids were young. And I've paid in $31,000 at

this point to both kids. And I owe 38,000 on my car. So my question is, do

I pull that money out and put it towards this debt and have my car paid off in the next two or three months and then start over or do I save some of that or

do I just pause it and leave the money where it is? >> Yeah. How much uh how much do you make a year or household income?

>> I make about >> Are you married? >> Uh yes, we make about 220 a year.

>> Oh, 220. Okay, that's great. Um no,

>> I would not >> I would not unplug the investment there and I would um Yeah, I would I would

just continue down that you got $38,000 of car debt and so how much how much extra can we throw at this or do we sell do we sell the car? Um you know, just to be done with it. Um, >> so yeah, >> I I I have I would have some major gastrointestinal issues pulling out an investment that's building one way to pay for a depreciating asset the other way. >> Okay?

>> Because the moment you put you pay 30 thou that 30,000 bucks on it in one year, that car is going to be worth less than that, >> right? >> Whereas that money would have been worth more than that. >> Yeah. And my oldest will be off to college in six years.

retirement and college and stuff is one.

I mean if you had like a random stock or something and you wanted to sell it uh just to be debtree >> but the the kids college and retirement all of that if you've already plugged things into those um yeah I would I

would I would just cash flow the payment of this. >> Y'all make 220. How quickly can y'all just buckle down and get this thing knocked out?

We're we're trying to we're we we still kind of struggle with the budget thing.

I have two boys in travel baseball, so we're just trying to understand what's

what's monetarily ne necessary every month and where can we really >> What could you sell the car for, Cheryl?

I'm just curious. Are you underwater on it? >> Uh, no. I could probably get 45 for it.

>> I would probably just sell it and be done. >> Sell it and be done. Go get a used

something >> cuz here listen or save save two save a

couple thousand between you know the next two months >> right? So here's what I've heard you say is your priorities travel baseball and whatever some coach tells you y'all need to fork over followed by a depreciating

asset car then

hopefully kids education. All of that seems backwards.

>> Yeah. I would put in I just tell you in

my house kids education is first.

Whatever depreciating asset me and my wife are driving around town comes second and then extracurricular activities will come after that. And that's just a values judgment.

>> Okay.

So make this >> you make enough money Cheryl to just

do pay this off. Okay. So you have that option. But if you're that if you're itching that badly to get out of this car payment, then sell it. I would sell it in a heartbeat more than Yeah. dip it into your kids's college.

>> Okay.

Okay. >> Which I know you probably don't want to hear that, but >> Well, no, that's I mean, just everything I keep hearing, I thought maybe I was supposed to stop because it's just all it does is it locks in the Florida tuition rate at what it was.

>> Yeah. And the prepaid tuition we're not big fans of anyways, but if that's the program that everything's already in, I don't know if you can shift or what that looks like. So, it's probably a >> different roll to 529 or something.

>> Yeah, if you're able to do that, the prepaid tuition thing kind of locks you in and it's not not the best option.

But, um, but yeah, there's there's a I

don't know. I'm like there it's the value system conversation, John, like what you were saying, but also, >> you know, our cars have such a grip on

us. Like, they really really do. And it's not a bad thing. And again, I think you guys can >> That grip is not as tight as travel sports, though.

>> Yeah. >> Good God almighty.

>> We'll get John on that rant in a little bit. Sh y'all. But hey, y'all are killing it. You really are doing awesome for not being great at the quote unquote budget thing. You've paid off another car. You paid off credit cards, a heliloc. I mean, you've done a you guys have done a great job and you're at the end. You're probably just exhausted. Um, but yeah, if you're that tired college for a car, >> um, yeah, I might get rid of the car.

I'd save up three to four grand. Go get a $15,000 car. That's what I would do.

But you guys are awesome, Cheryl.

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All right, we have Devin in Pittsburgh up next. Hi Devin, welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel and John, right?

>> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

>> So I guess I'm coming a little too late to the realization that um I might have not chosen the best college degree for making money and now I want to make money. So, I'm trying to figure out what the best course of action going forward is to, you know, long-term raise our family income.

>> What's your degree in?

>> English literature. I love to read.

>> So, do you know what my you know what my bachelor degree is in?

>> Sorry. >> Do you know what my bachelor's degree is in? >> I do not. >> Humanities.

>> Oh, that's a great That was my second option. >> There you go. you went one step further than I did. Like your degree is more specific than m. I mean on the hierarchy, my degree was less than yours.

>> And so I would not blame your current situation on your degree. I would blame it on um I don't blame anything, but I would say choosing to do. >> Yeah. What are you choosing to do and how hard are you willing to work for it?

>> That's fair. I guess I don't have a clear direction of where to go next.

>> There you go. That's that's that's a more honest question. So, you got a degree. You've proven to some future employer you can work hard for four years and get a thing and great. And so,

the big question is, what do you want to do besides read books and write?

>> You know, it's a great question. If I really let myself dream, it sounds crazy. So, I mean, >> I'm a YouTuber, brother. It gets no crazier than what I'm doing.

Uh, I would love to be like a

an outdoor like adventure do an outdoor

adventure camp for young boys.

>> Okay. Why is that crazy?

>> I really care about I care about men's ministry. I spent five summers doing uh Catholic summer camp in Colorado.

>> Why in the world is that crazy?

>> I don't know where to get the money from to start. I guess >> you go you you take a job making less

than you think you're worth at working a camp this summer.

>> And there's openings at camps all over the country.

And while you're doing it, um me and Rachel, our mutual friend Michael Easter is here in the studio. Um and he has one

of the most successful substacks on the planet because he's an extraordinary writer and a great researcher and thinker. And so you go work at this camp and you open a Substack and you write about it all summer. >> You start to learn about you know, men specifically, but the struggles, all of that, and yeah, start making a start making a side gig out of it. >> All of this is how hard you want to work, >> right?

Exactly. I'm I'm willing pretty much right now. I'm, you know, driving for Amazon, got the Every Dollar app, and doing side hustles and married. We have a kid.

We're expecting a kid in September. >> That's awesome. So, go find a boy ranch to work at.

There's no there's no path forward without disruption. >> Yeah. And there may and there might be a season too, Devon. I'll just say as as a wife with when I had a baby once.

>> Oh, here we go. I'm just >> that that you know, there may be a season of like I'm going to go take an office job for a hot second, get our some stability under us. Then we get to make a move towards the thing that I want to do. Or in the summers, we do this and then we have to do something else over here, right? Like I mean, you guys are young. Did you just graduate? Are you guys 22, 23?

uh 25 and 24.

>> 25 and 24. Okay. So, there may be, you know, a season from a financial standpoint that you, you know, do

something you may not love, but at least hopefully it's in the realm at which, you know, you can either do something on the side that you're enjoying. Um, but

what are what are you good at? What would you say?

>> I'm a really gifted writer. Um,

>> yeah. Yeah. So maybe there a job within that, right?

>> Copy editing, ghost writing, um you know

what I mean? Like plugging in what you're good at too and not just your passion, but I think working towards what where those things can intersect could create a a great life >> or spec writing and and those jobs with AI are getting increasingly hard to make a living. But man, if you're good at Substack, I I pay money >> for only a few Substacks, but I do pay money for them because they're good and I value the what what I'm getting, right? So, >> yeah, >> but that's just rep after rep after rep after rep.

>> Yep.

friend. But I'm still getting shout out shout out his book. Find the work you're wired to do. And we still have copies.

>> Yeah. Stay on the line. We'll hook you up. >> Yep. So, Christian will pick up. Um, but yeah, take that assessment because that I mean I do think generating ideas is

really big and you may be in a season where again and I'm kind of I don't know I heard this message I was like you know it's kind of good of like work on what you're good at your talent >> and then that provides a great living for your for your family and if that crosses with your passion quote unquote like that's great too. Yeah. But um but this whole idea of just just chasing your passion and doing whatever you want, you know, may not be a season where you're able to support your family and that's okay.

But like find what you're good at and make some great money doing it. And then I do think your life I mean you were in just one small chapter of your life right now Devon and it will continue and the opportunities and doors. I mean you said this the other day on the show where you were what was it eight years ago?

>> My first graduate school class was at the age of 26. So, a year after his that was my first master's degree class, right? And so, yeah, you got a whole adventure ahead of you. But I do I do remember this. I do remember pacing around the house at 25 thinking I was failing everybody. >> And so, I I get that sense in his chest like I can't I'm not going to make it.

>> I'm not doing enough or Yeah. Yeah.

>> Um but man, I take action. And you said you you worked for five five summers um

with young people and you developed a passion. reach out to those contacts and see what's available or volunteer at your local church. Like there's so many opportunities that are going to take you a lot of time, a lot of energy, and that's hard with a newborn, but man, get after. >> And what's wild, too, is um we love Young Life in our house.

That's where Winston and I met. And but they have, you know, property site families that live on these camp properties. >> That's what I'm saying all year. And that's like where they live and that's their job is to take care.

>> I have buddies texting me all the time, hey, do you know anybody who wants to move to New Mexico or to southern Missouri and work on this camp? This is a fun adventure for you guys with a baby and like >> there's no rent.

Like I don't know, maybe it's something fun like that too. Devon, >> thanks for the call. All right, let's go to Holly in Milwaukee. Hi, Holly.

Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Um, so I am currently in the middle

of leaving my HR job to uh potentially go part-time. Um, and I'm struggling

with whether we made the right financial decision. >> Okay. Why did you choose to go part-time? >> Um, I was burnt out. Um, I was the head of HR um out in a company out in um the

Piwaukee area and um with three young kids um I have a five, three, and two-year-old. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. So, you want to be home more? Is that your hope?

>> Yeah. And actually, I've been in talks with the kids school about potentially doing two days a week there. So, I have summer off with the kids. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's great. Um well, are you guys able to survive financially on you working part-time and your husband working full-time?

>> I think so. Um, we ran through the numbers. Um, this is kind of one of the most irresponsible things I think I've ever done. Um, not having something for sure lined up before leaving a job. Um,

but, uh, >> are you guys able to take care of your necessities in May and June?

>> Yes. Yeah. So, we have, um, close to $40,000 in our savings right now.

>> Okay. >> Um, 28,000 of that is dedicated to our emergency fund. And I would say our monthly spending and and what we need and everything um with a little cushion is about $5,000 a month.

>> Okay. What does your husband bring in?

>> Um he it he's based on commission um but

roughly about 6,000 net.

>> Okay. So you guys can you guys can keep your head above water. You're not having to dip into the savings with just his.

Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Holly, you're not overly irresponsible.

You're so that was so kind of you to like so like not kind. That was so heavy to say. You guys have $40,000. Say, >> do y'all have a lot of debt?

>> Um, we have a um $13,000 van loan.

>> Okay. >> Um that we're aggressively trying to pay off. Um and then we have 97,000 left on our house, which should be paid off before we're 40. So, >> yeah. Holly, I want you to change your narrative from I'm leaving this job to want w to I want to stay spend more time

with my really young kids.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Because like you're talking about this like you're failing like you're you're you you're making an affirmative choice. >> You're a hard driver, Holly. >> Yeah. You're going to a thing. That's amazing. That's awesome.

>> I I just I don't want to let my husband down. >> Oh, sister. You're not. But >> you're not.

Yeah. >> You're not. Yeah. So many working moms I know, there is this like a guilt factory.

Well, that and they and they carry that they have provided for the family financially and now when that's gone, they're like it's not even an identity thing. It's like I feel bad that I'm not contributing where you're good, Holly. Enjoy the summer with your children. You are fine.

You guys live on that 5,000. Don't go over. Go get a part-time job at the kids school. Pay off this van once you get a job.

You guys need to pay this off with the money you have saved. And ride into the sunset. You're doing great.

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Okay. So, I think a perk about working at Ramsey Solutions is we'll be sitting in the studio doing a show on the glass and we'll see guests walk in to do other shows cuz the Ramsey Network has multiple shows. um that have guests on and not always lined up for this show and we had a guest walk through >> and John and I were like, "Oh my gosh, is that who we think it is?" So, we just uh the whole world. >> He's supposed to be on with George Camel or he is going to be on uh George's show, but we grabbed him to do a segment here because John and I both love him so much.

Uh but Michael Easter is here. Hi, Michael. Welcome.

So, I was introduced to you because of your book, The Comfort Crisis, that I read and this was probably when did that come out? What year was that? >> 20. It's about 5 years ago now.

>> 5 years ago. Okay. So, I bet it was probably four years ago when I read it cuz it had been out for a while and I love to read and I kept seeing it float around all these lists. So, I'm reading The Comfort Crisis and we were on vacation. So, I was >> really famous. She was in Cabo.

>> I was I was I was by a pool, >> an infinity pool that was overlooking the ocean. >> There was a resort involved.

>> Yes. Overlooking the ocean. But the whole premise of the book, which I want to get into because I think it does tie into people sacrificing and getting out of debt and like what it does. But the whole thing is like we are too comfortable in our world today from like not only a physical standpoint but an emotional environmental all of it.

Like we have created such comfort around us. So we don't grow. You don't push yourself when you're comfortable, right? You have to be, you know, you know, not being comfort.

So I'm reading this book and I'm thinking about my friend John Deloney and I was like, John would love this book. So, I put the book out where I am and I just take a quick picture and I send it to John. I text it to him.

This is all this is straight up your alley." And >> and I was like, "A, I read it like a year ago. And B, just look at the photo

you just sent me." And it's like an infinity pool, the ocean >> and it says the comfort crisis, >> perfectly manicured toes, and the comfort crisis. So, >> basically like don't be comfortable. But your your book uh the comfort crisis and then scarcity brain your follow-up has burned through this company. It's become like a thing that we all talk about in all of our meetings all of the time because it was so impactful for all of us.

>> Yeah. So give us the premise real quick because I do want to tie this into the the financial side. But give us a premise of the comfort crisis for the audience. They kind of get this idea or Sure.

Yeah. >> Quick rundown is the world has become more comfortable over time in every way, right? We have to walk less. we are we're not as hungry anymore because we got food everywhere.

We've just engineered discomfort out of our lives, which is good in the grand scheme of time and space. It's nice to be comfortable, but at the same time, we've lost these things that keep us healthy, happy, and that teach us something about how to be a better human.

trying to save money, that is hard.

when you are on Amazon and you put that thing in your cart and you go to buy it's going to be so great and then you hear your voice in your head or Dave's

voice and you go oh I shouldn't buy this right not clicking by is really hard so I think that all growth happens through

doing things that are hard >> if something's going to improve your life it's going to be uncomfortable in the short term but the point is is that you get these long-term rewards by embracing that >> I love that >> and every business talks about how do we make a transaction less and less with less and less friction, right? I just went and bought lunch and now I just waved my phone over a box. And by the way, um based on a

Substack you wrote the other day, and we'll talk about that in a minute, >> I didn't even make eye contact with the guy. He was looking somewhere else. And so there we've extracted human interaction out of all these things. And so he he stuck this thing out. I waved my phone over it. We had a robotto-root

interaction, no personal connection, but it was all so frictionless and it it

didn't feel like a real exchange, but it actually took 11 bucks or whatever out of my account. That's real money. That's real sweat equity I put into that thing.

>> Yeah. And I will say the faster you can do something, the more likely you are to do it. So, this is why there's one-click buys on Amazon now. This is why companies are, especially online, like removing steps to make the actual purchase. So, we've really increased the speed of all these things that I think

can be poor decisions, but it's like you just make it. So, what happened?

>> Yeah. >> Or my first mortgage, I had to sit down with a lender and we went through a stack of papers. Now, it's you can get online and we'll approve you right now.

>> Sign. >> Um, yeah. So, from the purchasing consumer standpoint, it's taken out any level of discomfort. So you are more likely to spend and not save because the saving create, you know, pushes patience and delay gratification which you were just saying is so difficult.

So speak to the families because there's a lot of listeners that they're trying to get out of that consumer debt. They're deep in credit card debt, student loan debt, car debt. I mean, it's just all of this and they've gotten to a point where they're like, I'm so sick of this. I'm done.

I'm going to get out. And we teach that when you get out of debt, you have to sacrifice your lifestyle.

you're not going out to like you are limiting everything and throwing anything you can at that debt and it is so hard for people they call in and they'll say how do I stay motivated because this is so difficult so speak just some encouragement that this idea of sacrifice and what you're putting yourself through for a greater good to get to this point you know where you have autonomy over your money

you don't owe anyone anything like what that sacrifice is actually doing to the character of who they are and what what's happening inside of them >> yeah I'll tell you a story for a for an example and then I'll pull out big picture when I was a professor at NYU uh or at UNLV, I had a student who crazy in

debt, just like she's married, she had kids, so much debt, it was totally ruining their life, causing a lot of marital problems, causing problems with what they could do with their kids, what programs they could get them into. She started following Ramsay stuff. She's like, "It was the hardest thing we've ever done." But she got out on the other side of that and then she could put herself through college, >> which means she could earn a higher income. and she's like, >> "That was so hard in the meantime, but

now that we went through that, I look back on that and I go, that's one of the most rewarding things we've ever done >> for our kids because that taught them a lot for our marriage >> because it brought us together and also personal fulfillment. >> So to pull back when you look at what gives human beings fulfillment, >> it's never the easy thing.

>> It's the things that we had to struggle through. Good example. If I ask any

parent, "What's been the most rewarding thing in your life?" Like, "What's most important to you?" Most people are going to say their kids. >> Yeah. >> It is my kids. Full stop. And then you ask, "Well, is that always easy?" >> What's the most challenging thing? The kids. >> Yeah. What's the hardest thing?

>> Yes. That you've ever done. Yeah. >> Exactly. Now, you can apply that to any

situation, in life, >> you know, marriage, finances, whatever.

realize that that almost think of that as that hardship is like that is a signal that something important is happening that is then going to improve your life later. So you can actually get to a point where you feel that and you go, "Ah, something good is about to

happen." >> Takes a while to get that mindset shift.

Yeah. It's always going to be hard in the short term, but once you've gone through a few reps, I think you start to see that as something like, "Aha, >> here's the opportunity. Yes, it's going to suck, but I'm ready for it." >> Yeah. Let me let me for the listeners out here who are new to Michael Easter

>> and you know this you and I are personal friends off air but your voice has rang

through my mind so often the last 5 years that it has reframed how I teach marriage it's reframed how I help people who are struggling with their kids like trying to manage their kids and it all started from an idea you had or an

article you read about the 2% right and

that's based on the 2% of people at the airport who will use the stairs instead of the escalator. And at 2:00 a.m. when we're Rachel and I are on a live event somewhere and we're shleing through the it's like, "Take the stairs, Deloney." And I'm like, "I will." But here's where that has expanded my whole life. When my wife and I have a conflict, it's easy for me honestly to get some flowers, to

pretend that conflict didn't happen, and then to go about our regular routine.

And it has developed is given me a new language that is the tension is the doorway. If my wife and I have a discomfort, I'm gonna take the stairs.

Let's have this conversation. Let's get to the root of this thing so that we can get to where we want to go. And Michael, I got to tell you, it has transformed my marriage. It's transformed how I parent my kids. It's transformed everything.

>> The 2% real quickly. How did that how how did you come up with that? >> Honestly, it comes from a study. Yep.

Came from a study. And um that always just sat with me because I feel like it's a metaphor, right? It's 100% of people know that that taking the stairs is going to be better for their long-term health and wellbeing. Yet 98% of people go, "No, I'm just going to do this really easy thing. That's going to feel so much better." >> Um, but those 2% of people like that can

become a metaphor.

It sure has for me. And and I want everybody to know, um, Michael has a brand new podcast, a 2% podcast that I I personally subscribe to, and I pay money for his Substack. It's that good. Um, and I like to hit my friends up for free stuff.

I don't not for this one because it's worth every penny. The 2% um Substack by Michael Easter. Go check it out. >> Michael, thanks for being here and just the encouragement to the audience and be the 2% that the sacrifice at the end changes you in a good way.

So yeah, thanks for jumping in last minute. We appreciate it.

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>> dude. Uh, being around Michael Easter makes my life better. >> You like him? >> He's just a good human though.

>> Great human being. I'm glad he swung by >> for sure. So, I know. Thankful.

thankful who you've popped in. Well, you guys, we wish that we could get to every call on this show, but if you have a money question, we have an answer for you. You don't have to call in on the show. We love you too because it's always fun talking to you guys, but if you have a question, you can head over to Ask Ramsay.

So, this is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsay principles. So, AI, you put all the stuff in it of what you want to spit out.

those shows over the past couple of years, transcripts from live events and books and articles, like anything and everything Ramsay is in this. And it's crazy how accurate it is and how wild. I know people have like a lovehate relationship with AI, but it is crazy how quickly it starts to like learn you and know you and like it is wild.

>> Yeah. Like, please be nice to me. Um, no, but it really is amazing. So, check out Ask Ramsey. Again, you can ask your question. You go to ramsolutions.com and you'll see Ask Ramsey there on the website or if you are listening on podcast or YouTube, you can click the link in the description. All right, let's head to Lindsay who is in Charleston. Hi Lindsay, welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, I'm calling today because I recently got married in December and my husband has actually offered to pay off my student loans. >> Um, and my question is, should I let my husband pay my student loans off?

>> Absolutely not. I'm just kidding.

>> Yes. >> Well, let's let's talk bigger picture here. What's What's causing you to hesitate? Do are you still seeing this as his money, your debts, and you guys haven't really combined money? Not even tactically, but even emotionally, like this is our household, and our household has this amount of debt. Our household brings in this income. Our household has this much savings. As a household, how do we tackle our money? It's still more pretty divided emotionally for you, right?

>> Yeah, a little bit. So, I owe about $28,000 left. And I think my hesitancy

kind of comes in because I don't find that it's his responsibility to pay on my debt. This is the only debt that we have um I guess together, but it's really I look at it more like it's my debt because I was the one that chose to go to college to get two degrees. Yes.

>> And so I kind of am like is this really his responsibility if I've been the one paying it all these years? >> So you have 28,000 in debt. How much does he have say have saved?

Um, so he has I mean we have a net worth

of 700,000 and um he >> How much is liquid? Like how much how much cash do you guys have?

>> Um I'm actually not entirely sure how much exact cash we have.

>> Okay. >> So let me ask you a weird question. >> And how do you Well, how do you know he can pay it off if you don't know how much money you guys have? Did he just say I'll pay it off for you?

Um, well, I I do have like an understanding of how much he makes and his net worth, but um, money isn't really, I guess, an issue in that regard. He can definitely pay it off and there's there's no problem. It's more of like I just don't know if he if I should allow him to do that if I feel like it's my responsibility. All right, let's say that he had when he was a kid, um, he

fell off a slide and hurt his knee

and then next year he's playing pickup basketball and his knee blows out all the way. Are you going to look at him and say, "Well, you brought that bum knee into our marriage, so that's yours." >> No. >> No. So, when you get married,

both of you take on all of each other.

And so it's y'all's combined income.

It's y'all's debt. It's y'all's money.

And the like the research bears this

out. Not it's not just Ramsay running our mouths. Like the psychological and economic research says that couples that share a single checking account, not even a checking account, and you each have your own on the side. Um because that was part of the test. A single checking account forces y'all to say, "Who are we? Who are we going to be? Who do we want to be? and how much do we have? And so just that one act of

sharing a check-in account forces couples to come to the table and talk about values, talk about dreams, talk about visions, and then talk about how to get those dreams and values and visions out in the real world. And it just is a shape shifter for couples. And so this is not your debt anymore. This

is y'all's debt. And it's not his money anymore. It's y'all's money now. And so sitting down and having a bigger conversation about who are we going to be with our money um is where is I mean

that should have been your your premarital counseling should have covered that but you're already married so that's the next immediate step you'll need to take.

>> Okay that makes sense. Yeah, and Lindsay, we know we have found the fastest way to build wealth,

the fastest way from point A to point B is to be completely debtree, have an

emergency fund that you can tap into when things happen, be investing into

retirement and other things, have a paidoff home, and you just start living

your life. And when you have kids, you invest for their college, all of that.

But, but then no debt and investing

aspect. to no debt. I mean, even like no mortgage, like everything is paid off, right, to the ultimate. That's our baby steps. That's our baby steps six, okay?

Is paid off house. So that's part of the Ramsay plan. But we find people that can build that build wealth quickly with

their net worth, they're all in. And so

if you guys together say, "Hey, we want part of our legacy to build wealth, not just for us and just to be rich, right?

to when we have a family to be able to change our family tree to be able to bless others and be generous like we want to use money as a tool in that way and we're going to work towards uh you know being good managers of that. The fastest way is to get out of debt. And if that's our goal as a as a household, again, as a couple, okay, fastest way to get out of debt. Let's get out of debt like tomorrow because you can.

So, check it off, right?

And it's not you um taking advantage of

or all that. And I hear you saying like, I just want to take ownership of what I've decided. But I think John just Yeah. painted a really great picture that when you marry, I mean, it's it's all of you, right? and we're in this now together. >> Can I ask you this? Is this um and the way I'm going to ask it's going to sound mean and I'm not meaning it to be mean.

Okay, same team, right?

>> Are we good? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Is it your ego that doesn't want him to pick this up for you or is he not very

forthcoming with finances and that's kind of his domain and you feel small talking about money around him?

>> No, he is very open about like how much

he brings in and everything. Um, I think it's more of me. It's like a personal thing. Okay. >> Um, that I'm just like I don't know. I guess I look at it a little differently of like, you know, I brought on this debt well before I even met him. I went to school, whatever. And so I'm like, is this like should he be held responsible?

But I do understand >> he married all of you, >> right? >> For better or worse.

>> And you can tell him like, uh, I have some guilt doing this. You know, talk through it. >> Or tell them, I've been holding back a part of myself from you. >> Yeah. And I've been trying to hide this part that I'm embarrassed about or ashamed about, whatever. And we're married. I'm going to put all of me on the table here.

>> Yeah. >> And do y'all share a single checking account?

>> No, we don't.

>> You should.

>> Yeah. I think this could be a good meeting of the minds tonight, right? I mean, sit down together genuinely and just say, "Hey, >> what do we want this part of our marriage to be?" Because you'll have those conversations. What do we want this part of our marriage with holidays to look like with family and where we split time?

What do we want, you know, our marriage to look like when we want to go on a vacation with just the girls or just the like I mean, you'll have these conversations in marriage. How do we want our marriage to be? And money is part of that. And the quicker you guys can get on the same page, Lindsay, honestly, um it it's going to it's going to create a level of unity with you all that is that's so beautiful.

And the earlier you are in this marriage and to create a great pattern starting now is really big.

couples are one. You share everything.

You're together. You are transparent.

You talk about big decisions when it comes to money. You're on the same team.

You guys are on the same team running a household. And when you look at it that way, not only do you build wealth faster, but there's a better relational sense. Um, >> and I'll I'll never understand couples who share DNA and make humans, but won't share their their income. Like, that's always bizarre world to me. It's like we can we can create humans together, but this is my money and that's your money.

Like that's just Bizaro world. Put it all on the table. >> Do you think he would? Well, would do you want that, Lindsay? Would you want that level of of unity and working together or are you kind of like, >> eh? >> I think I'm open to it for sure.

>> How do you think he would respond to it?

>> I think he is more He's definitely the one that's all for it. I'm more of the hesitant one. >> Okay. >> I'm just Yeah, it's it's an ego thing. I need to get over it. >> Yeah. No, I mean, you don't have to don't just get over it. Push through and understand that about yourself and bring him to the table with it. And it's a beautiful learning. And we uh Yeah.

Yeah. You guys are going to do great.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz here with Dr. John Deloney and we are answer your questions at8825-55225.

All right, let's go to Orlando and we have Rick on the line. Hi Rick, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Well, I have a question because I did the calculations for um the net worth

and it turns out that I have more than a million dollars of net worth. However, >> congratulations. >> Yeah. However, um really all of that net

worth is is in my home, my primary home.

>> And so, uh last year I got into some um

no, I didn't get into, but uh you know, my business went south. Business went south. It wasn't making money. I was keeping it afloat by with some um personally guaranteed loans and it just wasn't making any money. So I decided to

close it down and move to another town

where I got a um salary job in the same

in the same uh industry. So

um when I left my home, I rented it. I rented it out and the current rent there

uh pays for the mortgage of the home plus plus it pays for the rent of the new home in my new town right now and

some expenses of of the original home.

So, it's being rented out, but I also have a large amount of debt and the debt I can't keep up with the debt. It's um I can't make really all the monthly payments each month. So, uh, my question

is, should I sell my primary home where all my equity is in order to pay off the

debt to in order to pay off all the debt and then I'll have some proceeds left over? >> Mhm. >> Uh, for possibly a new home.

>> My answer is a little bit different because you're currently not living in that home. You're living somewhere else.

Are you going to be going back to that primary home at any point and sell because you own two two homes. Is that what you're saying?

And I own one home and I'm renting in the same city where where where I moved to. >> Yeah. Will you be living where you are now? Probably for the foreseeable future. >> Yes, for the foreseeable future.

>> So regardless of debt or not, I would say don't be a longdistance landlord. So I would be I would I would sell your primary home anyways and depending on your financial situation, take the proceeds and buy something in the new city um or use it for a down payment or what that looks like and then go about your way. But your, you know, your situation's a little different because I would still sell the home, but how you use the proceeds of the home now may not be for a down payment and maybe to clear up this consumer debt.

>> Okay. The the loans in the debt total is 300,000.

>> 300,000. And was that business debt? Is that what you said? You got you you took out the loans for your business that you closed?

>> Yeah, but I also had some back uh IRS tax debt. I have a 105 105 tax debt to

the IRS which represents about four years but I'm in a payment plan for that. It's not like I'm delaying or anything. I'm in a payment plan and paying it monthly >> and then there's 150 154k in in personal

loans for the business and credit cards because credit cards too. So

>> Gotcha. And the credit cards is what probably 50 grand.

>> Yeah. At least. >> Okay. So that's the 300. That's how it's broken up. How much equity on this house do you have? >> The three the 300 also includes uh two

car loans and two car leases.

>> Four cars. All right. Well, who's driving all these cars?

>> Myself, my wife, my two children who are now uh one's finished one. They're both in college. >> Okay. Um how much car debt is there?

>> 57K. >> Okay. Will you break that? Which per which car?

No, that's uh the four cars combined together. It's two loans.

>> Okay. >> Of purchased cars and two leases.

>> Okay. Um All right. And how much equity

is in the home?

>> Well, the home is estimated at a value of 1.6 million, but um I think it may go

higher than that. Maybe I hope close to 2 million. >> The mortgage balance on it is 230.

>> Okay. Why do you think it's going to go for 2 million? because the comps in the area, the how houses are going, >> the comps in the area that I've seen right now are about 1.6, but the the features inside the house, it's uh it's newly remodeled recently in in the past few years. And >> it's high-end upgrades of uh you know, all the fixtures inside. >> Okay. Okay. >> Bathrooms, bathrooms, kitchens, floors.

>> We'll say worst case scenario 1.7. Okay.

Just for the sake. Um Okay. All right.

And so, so yeah, I mean, so yeah, you hopefully you would clear, golly, you know,

1.4ish, 1.3 possibly. Um, so if you did clear

out the debt, you'd have a million dollars.

What could a million dollars buy real estate wise where you are now?

Uh, >> I've been looking in pretty nice home.

Very nice. >> Okay. How much do you have in retirement and investments?

Okay. In retirement myself, my my 401k is uh 10,000 and I have some investments. I have about um

60,000 in in in the uh stock market and

um I'm using it for you know trading

stock options on on on and off. Mostly my wife is doing that.

>> Okay. Does she have any retirement?

>> Uh she had uh 30,000. No, not right now.

Nothing in 401k. It's all in the stock market. >> Okay. But she has an additional 30 invested somewhere. Okay.

>> Yes. >> And how old are you guys?

>> I'm 62. >> 62. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Um I mean would I I mean I would not make the mistake which is kind of what you made with the primary home that like and you said that opening this call that so much of your net worth is tied up in real estate which is not going to be great. Right. I mean, having a paid for house in retirement is awesome, but if you don't have any money to eat with, then it kind of negates the purpose.

>> Okay. Well, >> from paying it off. >> Yeah. But you don't have any money, brother. You'll be 68 years old with $10,000 in retirement and a $2 million house, >> right? >> Yep. So, I would um I would diversify a lot more than you have, Rick. So, I would sell it regardless again because you guys aren't living there anymore.

Um, I would see this as a gift that you that you all have done so well paying down on the home and it's gone up in value, which is amazing.

>> Um, and I would use it to clear my debt and I would make a contract with myself

and my wife and my family that we do not go into debt anymore. We don't play that game. So, we're done with debt. And then I would look and I would probably sit down with a financial adviser and just say, "Hey, when we run out the numbers and when we want to retire, how much how much would we need?

What what does this look like right now?" Cuz I mean, if you got a million bucks sitting in the floor, I would not go spend it on a million. Now that I know your retirement situation, I wouldn't go buy a million dollar house, >> brother. I would buy a $350,000 condo and put 650 in retirement. That's what I would do.

>> Mhm. >> Like, >> uh Uh-huh.

>> That was one of my questions I was going to ask you also >> about what to do with the proceeds.

>> Yep. So, the goal would be to have enough in retirement that you guys feel good with. And granted, you're still going to be working some, so you'll still be contributing, but also have paid for real estate. Can we get can we get that both done with this million dollars? Because that that's lifechanging right now. >> Can we get a small house for 400,000, get it completely paid off, and you can get a nice small house for$400,000?

We're going to get paid off, be all done, put 600 grand in the market.

>> But what this does, Rick, is it shifts

your expectation of lifestyle. You're leaving a 1.6 six $2 million home >> that >> with two nice cars, two lease cars, and you're choosing a more simple lifestyle for peace and the ability to retire with dignity. So, screw what everyone else thinks. You know what I mean?

Like from the looks of things. >> Go to ramiesolutions.com and check out our smart vesters in your area and they'll help you with the investment side of what to do with that extra money after you sell your house. >> Yeah. But there's going to be a level of humility that it's going to take to do this, Rick.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

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>> All right, the today's question comes from Maggie in m i s i si pi.

I am a 50-year-old single woman earning $53,000 a year. I have $25,000 in credit

card debt, car debt, and a personal loan from my father. I realize now I was very irresponsible and I've shredded the cards. I have my $1,000 emergency fund and I want to tackle the debts, but after all my bills are paid, I have 150 bucks a week left to eat and pay for

gas. The minimum monthly debt payments are more than that amount. Should I pay

the bills or buy food to be able to eat?

>> Oh, Maggie. Um, yep. So, a couple of

things. So, you always will want to eat first. So, when you're in a dire financial situation where this is literally paycheck to paycheck before the creditors are paid, before the credit cards are paid, you pay food,

shelter, so your rent or mortgage, utilities, and transportation, making sure you have gas in your car, and all that is good. So that's what we call your four walls because without that then you start putting the priority of your own self and survival right above

Mastercard. So um you yes you need to make a list Maggie and list out everything and see before after food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Then what is left is where the minimum payments come in and where what the magic is going to be for you in this is making $53,000 a year is going to be

extra work because income at that point is your problem. And so it will be working weekends and nights and it's not going to be fun. But if you can bring in an extra two to three thousand, whether it's waiting tables, you know, bartending, I don't I don't know what it is, dog sitting, I don't know what that looks like, but I would make it a goal.

Um, which means, yeah, you're going to be working 60, 70 hours a week, >> 80 hours a week.

but only for a short period of time. Cuz if you think about this and if you can do it and you can get three grand, you know, a month to be able to throw at this debt, I mean, in in eight 8 n months, you're done. You're completely done. Then you get to quit everything and go back and live on your salary because when you don't have payments, you actually have margin at that point.

So, it's kind of this like season of sacrifice that is is what I see. That's

that's how that's the path I see out for her. >> And the way I've had to navigate these tough seasons of my life is to make a commitment. In her case, she's 50. It's a it's I'm pretty dramatic, as you know, Rachel. Um, but I like some sort of

commitment ceremony. If I had to do it again today, I'd probably write a letter, but some sort of commitment to 52-year-old me. I'm going to do this stuff right now for future me. And for

whatever reason, when I'm doing it for somebody else, it makes it easier than doing it for myself sometimes. And so, I'm going to work like crazy. I'm going to not do stuff whatever in service to 52-year-old me. And it might be writing a letter to 52-year-old you talking about the sacrifices you made at 50 where you would work full your full-time job. You would eat a ham sandwich that you made or peanut butter and jelly sandwich on the way to stocking shelves at a grocery store until 11:00 at night.

Get up the next morning, go again. And you're just going to know for nine months I'm going to be really really tired, but I'm going to knock this thing out. >> Yep. Hope that helps, Maggie. But yeah, I think a tough situation. Yeah, prioritizing is really big when it when everything is that um condensed moneywise with your expenses. So priority remember food, shelter, utilities, transportation. All right, let's go to Rebecca and she's in Portland, Oregon. Hi Rebecca, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, my husband and I have been working on the baby steps. We're on baby steps, too. We had almost all of our debt paid

off except the house. Um, we had $2,500

left on our truck. And then our paidoff car needed work that cost more than the car was worth. So, we and we my husband

commutes 40 minutes daily to and from work. And so, we needed a commuter car.

And so, um, with 6,800 in savings, we

spent $5,500 on a car that immediately

needed $2,800 of work, um, because of a

tire problem caused by the dealership.

Um, and so, >> um, now we financed the work through the shop. It was 0% interest for 24 months.

So, I just we decided to do that instead of put it on one of our credit cards that are paid off. Um, and so now we have $5,300 in debt. My grandmother set

up a stock account for me when I was a

baby. Uh, it's grown to about 38,000.

Um, and so I'm just curious, would you

guys recommend cashing it all out, taking out what we need for the debt, um, letting it sit until retirement or what what I should do? We also have uh my husband has two shoulder surgeries coming up in the next year and um we do have an HSA with about 4,000 in it but that's not going to cover the surgeries fully but we do get financial aid through the hospital as well. We're kind of like a lower income >> okay household. So >> um sorry how much debt did you say the dealership was?

>> through the 2,800 through the repair shop. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. >> And then you still have uh did you say 25,000?

>> 2500.

Okay, perfect. >> Did you get your $5,500 car? Did you have it inspected?

>> Uh well, yeah, that's what we took it in initially for. Um, and yeah, I mean, we

had already purchased it by the time that um we had the tire problem.

>> Ah, so usually the inspection comes before the purchase, right?

>> Yes. Yeah, we Yeah, we've had good luck

with cars and we're hoping we would have the same luck and we didn't.

>> Yeah. No, that's okay. So, you guys have $5,300 total of debt and you have 38,000 in the stock. What kind of stock is it?

It's just individual stocks. It's like Disney, Home Depot, that type of thing.

>> Okay. Is it in like a mutual fund or it's a ton or it's like 10 individual stocks? >> It's individual shares. Yeah. Gotcha.

>> Um Okay. Well, the short answer is yes.

I would cash those out to pay this off.

Um >> Okay. >> And yeah, you'll probably be paying depending on how it was all looped to you from your grandmother if she I guess she had it in your name.

Yeah, she moved it to my name when I was 18. >> Okay, gotcha. Um, so yeah, there may be some taxes implications in that, but just, you know, be aware of that, but I would, yeah, use some of that. And then I honestly would not stay in single

stocks like that. I probably would end up cashing everything out and just moving it to an index fund. Um, yeah, >> like an S&P 500 or something. You can open up a brokerage account and just do it through that. >> And you can do that on your own if you wanted through Fidelity or Vanguard. you know, there's some easy companies that make it pretty easy. Um, just because I don't like >> the single stock mentality anyways. So,

that's probably what I would do. And then >> when you have that Yeah. to be able to take some of that to pay off the 5,300 and then you guys prepping for which I'm thankful you know about the medical ahead of time. So, with everything you said you guys have the HSA 4,000 and then you have some covered, >> how much out of pocket will you have to pay? Uh I'm not sure yet. Um we haven't

gotten an estimate from the hospital yet. But we do know that he needs both.

>> Okay. Yep. So uh do you have any idea?

Have they given you any range?

>> No. >> No. Okay. So I would find that out because it's going to help you guys to plan and to know how much you guys need to set aside per month. How much are you guys making a year?

>> Uh we make about 68,000 a year. Uh that was last year. I recently just um got my

certification um for my job and um we're

kind of like so I'm and I'm also up for a promotion so we're kind of looking for additional ways to earn and um there

should be a couple of good raises coming

up soon. >> I'll tell you my one concern about doing this is you guys have been working hard to get out of debt and >> I know you felt squeezed but you haven't fully metabolized. We do not go into debt, right?

>> Yeah. >> And so my fear is y'all going to cash this out and it's going to kind of become a just a kind of a just in case account. And so y'all are going to have to make a firm commitment that if we do cash this stock out and we pay this debt off, we're never going into debt again.

And this is not going to become just kind of a slush fund.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles. we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help.

It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go

to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

If you're working the baby steps, the fastest and best way to do it is by using Every Dollar. So, this is more than just a budgeting app. It is the plan that is built right in. So, you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. It's going to help you free up more money and work the plan faster.

I mean, it's like having one of us walk with you every single day and showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. So, start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's head over to Jessica and she's in Savannah,

Georgia. Hi, Jessica. Welcome to the show. >> Hi guys, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, I um am coming into a little bit of a bonus here. My husband and I are both military and I am just wondering what your guys' recommendations are for where I should put that towards. Um, so we both have a car loan and then we have our house loan. Um, and I'm just wondering if we should put it into that and pay those things off and then where we should put the extra money after those are paid off. >> Okay, great. How much is the bonus going to be?

>> So, the bonus after taxes is probably going to be about um $30,000. Okay. And

then I'll probably have another $15,000 bonus towards October.

>> Oh, nice. >> Are these military bonuses?

>> Yeah, but it's special. Don't tell anyone. >> I won't. I hope you get five of them.

>> I hope you get I hope you y'all get 50 of them. It's a madness out there.

>> Thank you. >> Just keep the bonuses rolling. It's my tax dollars. Keep them rolling. >> Keep them going.

>> Absolutely. >> Um Jessica, how much is the How much are the cars or how much debt do you guys have on them? So, my car is about 20,000

and then his is about 25,000.

>> Okay. How much do y'all make a year?

>> Uh, a little over 200,000. Probably like

210ish. >> Okay. >> Can I make a guess?

>> Yes. >> Is either one of these cars either a Jeep of some sort or a Dodge Charger?

>> Oh, absolutely not.

>> Yeah. Right, dude. Bucking the trends.

>> Bucking the trend. >> Military thing. I all my military buddies, all of them either have a Charger or or a Mustang of some sort or a a Jeep product of some sort. >> You know, I do I do have to embarrassingly admit that my husband does have a Tacoma, which is uh if you know, very common as well. >> Hey, you know what though? It's a Toyota product. It will drive till the end of time. I support that. >> We We love a Toyota truck around here.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> For sure. Okay. Um, so the 30,000 would

take care of obviously the 20,000 and

take the other car loan down to 15.

>> Mhm. >> And then you said you're going to be getting 15 in October. I would love for you guys to start. Yeah. So, all that to say, yes, I would throw the bonus at the cars. You'll have $15,000 left on the

truck or whichever car that is. Um, and

I and Yeah. And I would still be working to pay that off and then the money you get in October hopefully that car will

be you know you'll owe I don't know

7,000 8,000 on it right if you throw some money at it. >> I guess I should say I should also say we do have about like I just you know we were talking about money last night and I was like oh my god we got to find out where we should put this but we do have about $50,000 in cash right now too.

>> Oh >> good grief. Lead with that next time.

Jessica Jesus >> in the lead. Jessica 50 grand.

>> I'm so sorry. I just like I think it's because we're we're young enough where I just feel like I don't know exactly where I should put the money into. Like do I pay off the house that much?

Although we might move in, you know, a couple two years or so. Um, you know, do I put it into like a TSP? What do we do?

But we're already contributing like 27%

and I think he's at like 25% going into TSP. >> Okay, let me help you just >> I feel like we just accumulate money and don't know where to put it. >> Yep. No. No. And that's common. Okay, so the Ramsay baby steps when you walk through them, baby step one is a $1,000 emergency fund check. Baby step two is

get completely out of debt. All your consumer debt, which means you're going to be selling stuff, working extra, sacrificing any money you have saved,

Jessica, anything that's out there, you throw at your consumer debt to get out of baby step two. And so you guys are at that step, which means you can be done tonight. You can pay both cars off tonight. So, you're done >> for sure.

>> Yeah. And you'll have $5,000 left of that 50,000. And then when your $30,000 hits that bonus, you're going to have $35,000. So, then you get to move on to baby step three, which is a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses.

So, you guys are in pretty, you know, stable jobs. Uh, any kids?

guys have kids? >> No kids. >> No kids. Okay. How much would it take to run your household per month, would you say? How much money do you guys need >> with no car payments?

6,000. >> 6,000. Okay. So, I I mean I probably would put you guys at a three month. We say three to six months, but you guys don't have kids, stable job. So, if you wanted to do a three month, you know, you could, which would mean you would need >> Okay. >> 18,000. Okay.

>> Um so, when you Yeah. When you look at all of that, then what's left? Then we need to decide, okay, we have some money left. What do we want to do with that? So the question is, yeah, do you throw it at the house? Baby step four is 15% of your income into retirement. So I actually would lower some of your what you guys are putting away down to 15% and throw the rest at the house.

>> Okay. >> Um and as you pay it off, it's okay because even if you guys sell it and move that you're building an equity at that point as you're paying it down. So you're not losing that money, right? You're just putting it into an asset. um

and and paying it down. Do you guys think you really will move though in the next two years?

>> Yes, >> you will. Okay. So, there I mean you could keep it in like an index fund or something right now. Um or even just a high yield savings account because I am thinking when you guys move if you had some money saved for a down payment and contingent upon the sale of your house that you have now. Sure.

>> Would work as well. Um >> Yep. So that that's probably what I would do honestly is I would put the remainder I would have two two separate high yield savings.

maybe buy something. But the military families, I know if you guys are jumping, if you're jumping around, you're probably going to want to rent somewhere. It's a good point.

>> Sure. Sure. I think the other thing is that, like I said, every couple of months we just all of a sudden feel like we have so much money, so we pay some in the house, some in the cars, and whatever. Not. So, if the cars are paid off, and then all of a sudden we have like another $1,000 a month that we're not spending. Yeah. What would you suggest putting that into like how much do you really put into your house all up front?

Well, if if if it was me, I when I

bought my house, I hope I don't move for 10 years. And so, I'm going to put I'm going to be more aggressive paying it off. >> Like, my friends in the military, they get moved every two to three years. Um, one of two things happens. They either barely break even because there hasn't been enough time for the house to appreciate and they still got to pay realer fees to exit or and you know you've got friends like this >> they have this trailing mortgage in like

three or four different states and they're trying to rent them out to other military families and it just becomes a nightmare right and so for you since you know you're going to be moving in two years I would I wouldn't this is just the Delhonies I wouldn't buy a house until I knew I'm going to be somewhere 5 to 10 years >> I would agree with that just >> otherwise I would rent and I would rent a nice place cuz y'all are doing really well and I would put all that cash in a high yield savings account for the day we can walk in and pay cash for the house we're going to live in for 5 or 10 years >> for sure.

Yeah. When do you think because the difference on and I'm with John I'd be renting. So any money you get from equity I would put into a high yield savings account.

investing which means like putting it like an index fund or something versus

high yield savings is about that four to five year mark. So, if you're not going to be buying anything because you guys are going to be moving around and renting for if you're not going to be buying anything for the next 5 years, I almost would just open up an index fund and start throwing cash in there >> and because that you're going to get great returns on that and you're going to be able to write out the market because you don't need it for 5 years or more. Um, honestly, that's probably what I would do.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that information so much. The index fund is different than the like Vanguard, Fidelity, S&P 500s, correct?

>> No. All in there. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

So, just look into that. Yes. Yeah. You may open up like a brokerage account and inside of that put um an index fund.

>> Here's the main thing we're doing differently than what y'all are doing. You all get a big check and y'all try to spread it out all over the place. We want you to knock things out one at a time so you actually make progress.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/.

Our scripture of the day comes from 2 Corinthians 9:8. And God is able to

bless you abundantly. So that in all things, at all times, having all that

you need, you will abound in every good work. Dolly Parton said, "Love her. A

peacock that rests on his tail feathers is just another turkey." Did you see she came out with a video? >> No. >> Are you a big Dolly van? she had to cancel Vegas and that she's having some

health stuff, but her doctors, you know, she's she's going to be great and she's going to be looking younger than ever. I mean, she's just hilarious. I love, >> you know, over here on 12 South, like right in the middle of >> like where all these shops and restaurants are. My kids and I have walked by there a thousand time. That's her place. I had no idea.

>> There. And she lives in She has >> That's where she stores her bus and all.

>> Okay. Yeah. Cuz her house, y'all, she she lives like a mile from me.

>> Wow. And she's been there for since like the '9s. >> Forever. >> We love Dolly. >> She's the best. >> She is. She's a gem.

>> She's the best. >> She's on my bucket list to meet. I want to meet her. >> I just want her to be president.

>> Oh, she should be president. Dolly. I'm going to write her in next election. >> She's probably too young, but

>> All right, we're going to go to the phones and we have Richard in Tennessee up next. Hi, Richard. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely, Tom. >> Absolutely. How can we help? >> What's up, man?

>> Uh, so I've recently became disabled and I'm not able to provide like I've been doing for my family >> and I'm going to be getting a pretty large settlement about $75,000 minimum. I'm just wondering what can I do to turn that into some type of profit.

>> What happened, brother?

>> I was involved in a car accident uh that left me paralyzed. Um Oh my gosh. I have a head injury and I have seizures pretty bad from it now. Yeah, >> I was a truck driver before that. So, >> okay. >> Obviously, I'm not allowed to drive, so can't do that anymore. >> Y >> um 75 seems awfully low for

>> for for an injury that takes permanently takes away your line of work.

>> Yeah, that's uh the lawyer really feels that he's going to get a lot more. Yeah, >> it's just he said, "We're going to cover your medical bills at least." And those are all paid. So now I know for a fact I'm going to get at least 75,000. What's he saying?

He said you may we may be getting more. What does that mean? Like if he had a ballpark, what was he I know you're probably being conservative with the 75, but >> what could it be? >> I'm trying to be conservative with it, but I mean he said that he's pushing them and he's trying to push closer to 200,000.

>> Yeah, I I I for whatever it's worth, man, because this injury takes away your livelihood, which is truck driving.

But that's not why you're calling. So, um, but man, I hate this for you and for you and your family. >> I'm sorry. Um, Richard, are you able to do any level of other work or will you be out of the workforce for the foreseeable future?

>> Right now, it's kind of too early to tell. Okay. >> Um, but doctors not really saying anything positive or negative. So, I think they're kind of questioning it, too.

>> Okay. >> Is it is it classified as a TBI, traumatic brain injury? >> Yeah, it is. >> Okay.

>> Yeah. Sorry. >> The path back from those is s so difficult to navigate, right? Because >> Yeah.

I'm glad the doctors are just keeping it neutral because nobody knows, right? >> Yeah. Does your wife work? >> Yeah.

>> Uh, no, she doesn't.

>> Okay. Are you um Do you guys have kids?

>> We have one kid. >> You have one? Okay. How old?

>> She is five. >> She's five. Okay. Um and so she'll

probably be in school next year. I'm assuming kindergarten.

>> Yeah. >> Starting the fall. Okay. Cuz I'm just trying to think how to make this money

work for you guys, but also that it doesn't just disappear in expenses when

there could be pairing with some level of work or income coming in. Do you know what I mean? >> Well, there's two I want to say this.

There's two um one of my oldest, closest friends on the planet is a longtime TBI

survivor. And there is a program I I

know it's a federal program. I think it's a federal program and possibly a state program too where she might actually receive compensation for your care.

>> And so I would look at that and I would also look at your social security benefits, SSI benefits.

>> Okay. Yeah. Uh I did get I'm on SSDI.

>> Okay. And what does that pay bring in every month? >> Uh 1678 a month.

>> Okay. Yeah. It's not it's not going to keep food on your table, but it's something. But check in. have her look into the program that she can qualify as

um basically she'll get paid as a full-time caretaker of you and that's a

pretty remarkable program as well. It's not it's not going to make anybody rich, but it will keep your house over your head. >> Yeah. How are you guys um paying for

things now, your bills and everything?

>> So, right now we're on just full government assistance pretty much.

>> Okay. >> So, do you guys have any housing?

>> Uh we have 8,000 in debt.

>> Okay. What is that? What kind of debt?

>> Uh, that's from a car that I had to turn back in after my accident. >> Oh jeez. >> They didn't just take it.

>> Uh, they were kind of like threatening and I just said, you know, there's really nothing we can do, so just come get it. I got a voluntary repo on my credit report.

>> Shoot. Okay. Um,

so for now that how when will you get the settlement? Do you know?

>> Uh, end of this year.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you guys have the rest of this calendar year to survive?

>> Yeah, we do. >> Okay. And government assistance, what's coming in a month with that?

>> Uh, just the 1678 and then uh the health

insurance is locally covered now and

then the food stamps for the kid.

>> Oh, man. >> So, after we pay all of our bills, we're left with about 300. And that's after putting some in savings. How much are you putting in savings?

>> About 15%.

>> Which comes out of the

>> of the 1,600.

>> Okay. So, it's like 200 bucks or something? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And when you say you have $300 left, is that after food, rent is paid,

everything? >> Everything. >> Okay. Okay. And you're putting some in.

So, you you could put $500 a month in savings right now is kind of what you're looking at if 300 is your margin.

Yeah, we could. >> Okay. Um, you know what I mean,

honestly, Richard, I would probably I would I would stick to that regimen as much as you can until you get this payment. And I'm praying by the end of the year, you'll have some answers with your health. Um, possibly freeing up

your wife to a degree to be able to go and and provide and work if you can't.

Um cuz the goal would be to be bringing in some level of income and that this settlement is put aside and that you

guys can use it if you need to on a big purchase like if you have to replace a car, but that it's invested and it is making money. So in that case, yes, I

would put that settlement. Um I would I

would take some out and put an emergency fund to the side in a high yield savings account.

And then beyond that, um, again, trying not to live off of this because the goal would be to invest it and just let it

let it grow. Um, and so you can do that

just like in an index fund or something, but between now and the end of the year,

my goal would be to be putting some money in savings and start building that up because if you guys can do that, that's that's pretty remarkable. I mean, if you're able to put, you know, 500

bucks away, I mean, you'll have three $4,000 by the end of the year, which is >> Yeah. Fantastic. >> You are living lean for sure. And I hope that it's 10x your settlement than what

you think it's going to be. >> For sure. Which I feel like it

>> should should be. >> Yeah. Ask a question to your attorney about future earnings. >> Yep. And just Yeah. Ask about that. But yeah, when you're in a position, which I feel like we've had a couple of um not just like this call, but the idea that it's like it is just it is touch and go monthtomonth on bills and cash flow.

Remember you guys, food, shelter, utilities, transportation before even debt is paid. Take care of that. And then beyond that, make a list of priorities of things that you you have to have, right? And if you have kids, young kids, but you're both working, daycare is going to be right there close to that needs line, insurance, like there are some things that have to be covered. Um, but the idea is that you you have a plan and it's written out and

you're able to follow it because that logic side is so important when emotions and the scariness of reality can wash over you and you can make bad decisions if you if you focus on that.

>> Yeah. And you're there's not a way to take $75,000 and turn it into

like invest off of it and make that into a livable income per year forever. Um the best thing you can do is to take that money and like Rachel said, get an emergency fund, but put the rest of it in and you're you're thinking way down the road with that money. >> Yep. Absolutely.

>> Sorry, brother. >> I know. I'm so sorry, Richard. Call us back.

Um if you need more help, for sure, we're here for you. Thanks to everyone in the booth, John. Always a fun show. And thanks to everyone listening.

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## 43. Don’t Go Broke Trying To Keep The Peace | July 4, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:14:06 |

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[Music] [Applause] [Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Jade Warshaw and we are here to answer your questions about life, money, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at88255225.

Up first this hour we have Chris in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Chris, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

So, I'm asking this question for my daughter and her fiance. Um, and I wanted you guys to give your best explanation of why you should not buy a house together before you are married.

Oh, I like that. So, I mean, the first thing is there's no legal protections. I mean, you're kind of just his word against her word and you're comingling money together and so at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, there's not really a process in place to decide who gets what. That would be my first thought.

Okay. So, with you saying that, of course, nobody goes into a marriage thinking that it's not going to work out. And these two are no different. Um,

but they both still live at home. They both have uh jobs. She's in college and

she's finishing up a teaching degree, which is going to take her three years to do that. And they're scheduled to get married in April of 26. Um they're

trying to understand how you um

you wait until you're married to buy a house because they say, "Well, where are we going to live at?" Uh well, that's that's a good question. Um and I tell them you got to look at renting. And if they decide to um wait, I want you to explain to them why that's a a good thing, I guess, is what I'm saying. To wait to get married or to wait to not buy the house together.

Wait to not buy the house together. I think they understand the finance part of it, but um I think they're like if we don't have it when we get married, we don't have nowhere to go. So that's what I'm I'm kind of getting at wanting them to understand and hear it from somebody else. Well, there's two conversations I think.

There's the value side of it and then there's the money side of it. So on the money side, yeah, we don't recommend combining money until you're married. So up until this point, they should be viewing her money as her money, his money as his money. So her money is used to buy her rent, her food, pay her bills, that sort of thing.

And vice versa for him.

right? Would you agree? Yes, I would agree 100%.

Yeah. I just want to Well, I'm sorry.

Yeah. No, it's fine. And when you own something with someone, and this is even a car, Chris, we would say this about a car. When both of your names are on the

ownership of something, to detangle that

is very difficult to do. And when you have an asset like a house, it's it's very difficult. And then I would say to them as well, financially speaking, they're just going to be out of school. They don't they can't afford a house anyways.

Like the upkeep of home ownership already is going to add stress to their life, and they don't need that, right? that that's down the road and we want that to be part of their plan long term. But it almost kind of steals a level of joy and freedom. Like when you can just rent and everything's taken care of for you, like en enjoy your early 20s.

Don't, you know, if you're in a place financially that, you know, you're settling down and you can buy a home and can afford it, that's one thing. But when you're first starting out, like understand that, you know, it's very, very expensive. So, so on that end, Chris, it's very unwise, very unwise to put your name together when you are not married on an asset because just like um Jay just said, untangling that it's it's a mess. It's an absolute mess.

And then a house is is magnified in that that is not a wise move.

And again, people can, you know, do what they want to do and believe what they want to believe. But I think there is something to be said about acting like you're married and pretending like you're married when you're not. you're not married and there is you know a level of of something sacred to say hey I'm going to join my life with this person under a vow and under a covenant and we are going to then merge our lives together and actually you know do this life together and and and there's something that you know nowadays it's just like you know you you gave it all away right up front and it's like man there's just something about saying we're going to do this in a order that again some would say is old-fashioned but I think is wise because it actually gives you options.

And too, Chris, I've talked to so many people that, you know, they live together and and worse, they have a house together and they're not like, "Ugh, I don't even know if I want to marry this person." And the long, you know, creating this timeline of the breaking up lasts so much longer versus like, hey, we're just trying to figure this out and it's not working.

I think so. Get to that point. What I think's going on here is there there's a a lack of foresight obviously because they're thinking under best case scenario and that already is a red flag to me because the truth is life happens. You don't know what life's going to happen.

So having the right protections in place is important. The other thing is I think that this is more out of convenience than anything else. I think they're trying to create a certain level of convenience instead of living their lives as they are. How old did you say they are?

They're they're 20 now.

They're 20 now. So, yeah, I feel like they're going they're going it's just easier to do it like this as opposed to taking the smarter route and the more

independent route. Does that make sense?

I mean, I know this is not for you, it's for them, but Absolutely. That's why I call cuz you what you said is is right on the money and I can't wait for them to hear this. Well, let us know how they take it. I hope they they'll take it from two ladies who Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And and and it's a hard thing, too, Chris. you know, I mean, granted, she's 20, so I do feel like her um you

you being able to speak into her life is, you know, the doors it's starting to close, you know, with her becoming an adult, but it's still open hopefully. Uh but also knowing that, you know, as as they as your kids get older and especially when they start entering adulthood, um the the conversation does look different, the tone you take, the perspective you take. And I would just say to you, Chris, that you know, as much as you can, the biggest way to influence, I would think her as a 20year-old who's in college, knows what she wants to do for her career.

She's obviously very smart and she's, you know, knows a path that she's walking down.

conversation as much of an a friend aspect than like I'm a dad, I'm going to tell you what to do. I just feel like you start to get to that age in the late teens, early 20s where it's like the persuasiveness of a parent comes into

play much stronger than I can control you. Like when you have like a three-year-old and you're like this is what you're going to do. But some of it still gets in. Like truth truthfully, I remember when I was in my 20s, I was dating this guy and I remember my dad telling me, he was like, Jade, like before you go too deep into this, just know like your tastes change. Like what

you want changes over time. And I think he told me something like what you want is going to change like five or six times. So, and I mean it was weird

because he was like, you know, you were dating this guy and you thought and then you were dating this. He's like, this guy's like number four. Like you might change your mind again. And as at the time I was kind of like, oh this guy, dad doesn't know what he's talking about.

But he was right. Yeah. And so there's part of I'm like, you're 20 years old. Don't get me wrong, some people they marry their high school sweetheart, whatever.

I'm not saying against that.

most of us. You change so much from 20

to 25 even. Right. Right. And so there's

part of that where it's like you guys you don't know what's going to happen in the future and you certainly don't want to be like locked into a financial asset like a house that might make you feel trapped. Yes. Let the timeline unfold naturally. Right. and and let the turn of events that, you know, the um order of events play out in a natural way versus trying to force it and rearrange everything because it's just going to make it more difficult. Hope that helps, Chris. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable. Yeah. And what's

so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." Or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza.

So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800356-4282.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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So, one thing that is approaching quickly, Jade, is the live like no one else cruise. We have 85% of the cabins

booked, and you guys don't want to miss it. We're going to Turks and Caos. We're going to St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. It's just going to be it's going to be amazing. I mean, Yep. And your tickets, of course, include with the cruise ship. All your food is included. even room service. There's lounges by all the pools and the hot tubs and we're all going to be there.

All the Ramsey personalities and um a

whole lineup of other other guests. So, it's going to be a really really fun week you all. And again, this is for those of you on Baby Steps 4 and beyond.

And we want to celebrate you because we talk about living like no one else. So, later you can live and you can give like no one else. And this is part of enjoying the money and where you are financially. And you're going to do it with us and we can't wait.

So, it is March 22nd through the 29th and it's coming up fast. So, you do not want to miss this incredible vacation. You can go to ramseysolutions.com/cruise or you can click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Love it.

Up next, we have Shannon in Pensacola, Florida. Hey Shannon, welcome to the show. How are y'all? We are doing well.

Thanks for calling. How can we help?

question because I've been getting a So, I own a home here in Pensacola. That's my only debt. And I have a current

interest rate at 7.49.

And I've been getting and you know, I just feel like there's just so much fraud going on. And I don't know how

y'all feel about that. What kind of fraud? What do you mean? Well, I just mean like on so many different levels.

So, I had a kid call me today who said,

"Oh, well, we can give you you have an

FHA loan, so we can give you a 5 I don't

know what he said, 42 and oh, no money

down." I go, "Wait a minute. I'm a business development person." So, I'm like, "Well, what's in it for you guys?" So, he wanted you to refinance and he's going to get the fees associated with he wanted me to refinance, but I'm like, "Wait a minute. How does this work out?"

Because I keep in touch with my current

mortgage broker that I use to buy the home. Uhhuh. I keep in touch with her and I say, "Hey, what are they at?" Because I got a letter from FHA. Yeah.

Who said, "Hey, we can go down to 5.25

25 to 5.2%

and I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on that and I just feel like I'm like okay I mean you're right you're

we're going to start to wait and I know this election there's just so much I

don't have to do it again let's roll it

on home. All right here's the thing.

Yeah. Yes. I think that we are starting

to be at a turning point when we're going to see I mean we already have seen uh mortgage interest rates go down and I think they're going down again this month is what the Fed is saying. So they should and we might even see it before they release you know their um report or

in their uh report of the interest rates whatever. But my point is you get to decide right if you don't want to refinance you don't have to refinance.

And if there's an offer I do want my mortgage to go down y'all. Okay. Well, if there's if there's an offer that presents itself to you and you're interested in it, I I just you started out the conversation start talking about scams and then we kind of went to the

election, then we kind of went to interest rates and I want to kind of

clear it out. Being able to refinance your house at a lower interest rate is not a scam. Unless you do your due diligence and find, okay, this is not a scammer for it, some random guy that calls you. I probably wouldn't use him.

a guy that called me. I'm just making a point is that he's like, "Oh, it doesn't

cost you anything." And I'm like, "Wait a minute. That's kind of where I'm coming." So, yeah, they're probably, to your point, anything that comes up that is that is exciting right now. We find this always in the financial industry.

There's always going to be people prying on that, right? So, whether it's mortgage, you know, mortgage rates are dropping, so people are going to clamor to refinance and there may be scammers out of that. Crypto became a big thing.

Scammers flock to that. they will flock to try to get people's money. So that's where your discernment Shannon comes in that if you choose and probably will and anyone listening refinancing, you know, if you're going to be in the house long term, it's a it's a great option. And so maybe you wait another 6 months to see, you know, after the election to see if it keeps dropping and then maybe Shannon, you decide to do that.

Then I would use a reputable broker, whether you have one.

I'm from Oklahoma. She's from Oklahoma and I just trust her. That's great.

Yeah. Yeah. So, doing doing it reputably. So, yeah, I think um for sure that it would be um I think it's a great option and people will be doing that more and more. And I think you had great advice there, Rachel. If you're looking at rates and you're seeing them go down, I wouldn't like jump to refinance instantly. I'd like let it happen. Let them roll back because they're probably not going to jump right back up, right?

We we have finally gotten to the point where it's like, okay, inflation is at this point. unemployment's at this point. It has to happen. So, I'm with you. I'd probably wait until after the election. Let the chips fall where they do and then you can make the wisest decision for sure. All right. Up next, we got Mike in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Mike.

Welcome to the show. Hello. How are you?

We're doing great. How can we help? Um,

okay. I'm 42 years old and I made some bad financial decisions in my life um regarding 401k and stuff like that.

Okay. got divorced. Ex-wife took half the 401k and I've cashed it in a few times and I'm basically starting over at 42. I have like 21,000 in my 401k now

and I'm only putting in like 6% because we're on baby step number two and I was

want to see is it too late?

No, not at all. Not at all. Not by a long shot. No. Um and if anything, this

will probably scare you more, Mike. I would advise you to even pause that 6% while you're getting out of debt because here's the deal. When you free up so much of your payments, you're able to throw then 15% of your income at retirement and be able to catch up. So, how much debt do you guys have?

Um, the house we got like 83,000 on and

uh the truck we're trying to get paid off. Um, we should have paid off by the end of this year. How much is it? Um um

I got like 10 almost 11,000 left in a minute. Okay. And we're we're You keep

saying we. Who's we? I know you were divor. You I thought you were Okay. So you got divorced. You remarried. Yeah. My my ex-wife took half the 401k. I got remarried.

Okay. Perfect. Okay. Perfect. So 11,000 on the truck. A lot better money. Yeah.

That's great. Okay. So 11,000 on the truck. What else do you guys have?

Um, just a mortgage. Okay. So, the 11,000. Okay. Yeah. So, the mortgage goes obviously in baby step six. So, we're not worried about that right now.

So, yeah, I would get this 11,000. How much do you guys make combined income?

Uh, I make 37.84 an hour and she makes about 30. Okay. What's that amount to every month?

Do what now? What's that amount to every month? What do you see monthly on your budget? Oh. Um, around five 6,000 a month. Okay. Just

just for me? Just for you? Yes. And then

what does she bring in a month?

Yeah, it's close to 5,000. Okay, that's great. So, you guys are making 120,000 a year. Fair. Yeah, close to Okay. Before tax. So yeah, I would pause that 6% Mike honestly until this truck's paid off and then you guys get a fully funded emergency fund and then press play and then you got 15%. Um Jade's got her fancy calculator out. So we're going to be Are you able to Yeah, I got it in there. Say, so you were worried earlier.

You're like, I'm 42. I've made these mistakes. And here's the thing. This is just the picture you painted today.

Let's pretend you clear out this car.

You clear out this debt pretty quickly.

And you said you make about 120,000 a year. You know, if you're putting around 15% into investments, that's about $1,500 a month. Let's say you do that from the time you're 42 to the to the time you're 65. And I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator.

Uh you already had 21,000 in there, which is great. So if every month you contribute 1,500 at a 10% rate of

return, which is uh average, contrary to

popular belief, I mean, that's almost $2 million. It's $1.8 million. And that's a

big deal. That's plenty. And on the current income you have, Mike. That's right. That's not you getting raises and your wife changing jobs. I mean, it will continue. Usually for most people, their income continues to go up in their lifetime, right? So, $2 million, Mike, you're on track. Don't you worry. But hey, it's a good little like uh you know, we talk about how fear can be a gift. There's a great book called Fear is a gift and there was a gift of fear.

And there is there is a a beauty in it because it kind of does shake you up a little bit. Oh my gosh, am I late? And then you're able to say, "Okay, what changes do we need to make for this not to be a reality?" So, you're doing great, Mike. I I appreciate you calling and good luck to you and your wife cuz yeah, you guys are on track. This is the Ramsay Show.

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[Applause]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. So give us a call at88255225

and we're here to answer your questions.

Up next we have Sarah in Atlanta. Hey

Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Oh, I I pretty much don't even know where to really start. So um I've been

married for less than um three years.

Okay. Um, and uh, I've worked for

everything that I have and nothing was given to me. And um, when I got married,

I uh, was my net worth was a little over

a million. And uh, but that did uh,

consist of most money in retirement and equity and a few rental properties. Mhm.

Um my fiance at the time, now a husband,

uh did not have as much as I did, which

was fine. Um and uh

so we had decided to get a prenap

uh he came in with I matched and then anything else in excess of that was to go to our children. What' he come in with? Um he came in with 160,000. So you

were at a million net worth and he was at 160 net worth. Yeah. Whose idea was

the prenup? Mine. Okay.

Keep going.

So um fast forward um

uh fast forward um I'm making a great

income. He's making a great income. I've always been a saver just naturally very

always, you know, lived below my means and um things just began like just not

making any sense. Um and uh my husband

owns his own business and I just started seeing our accounts getting lower and lower and lower when I believe our

account should have been getting higher and higher. So I said, "Hey, you know, like what's going on?" and um his response was you know um I just haven't

done uh the paperwork you know for taxes and said that he filed a tax extension so um you know so um it's taking money

out of his savings until he goes through his paperwork so he can know what he has to pay exactly I said okay um several

months went by and I still notice these things going down and things just don't make sense to me um something in

particular happened And I said I pretty

much said um are you sure everything's okay? He said yeah. I asked him to

please let me see his account his business account where he said all the money was. Mhm. And that's when he admitted to me that he has uh

that he is he has been stealing from uh

his words were uh from us from me and is

a fraud.

and um needless to say um dove into

everything and he has completely wiped

us out. Oh my gosh. Um our savings um

everything. We now only have um two months of emergency fund. We have two very small children. Two two under two.

Uhhuh.

Um so when you say he wiped out your savings, how much did you have saved?

and he was just funneling it to keep his business afloat. Is that what you're saying? So, we had we had over $100,000

in savings. He also um took from me

personally $286,000

out of where?

um just uh various accounts that I had

that were uh deemed as premarital that

that weren't supposed to be touched. And what did he use that money for?

So I I so I just went through everything

and um there is no addictions, there was no other woman, there's nothing like that. So then when I dove into things, so it turns out that he actually the lies began when we were dating and uh he

actually lied on his prenup and um the 160,000 that he even came in with were

tied to loans

and lines of credit from his business.

So he just said that this is how much credit I have. It's not real it's not

real net worth. I didn't know that. But

that's what he just admitted to you though recently. So yeah. So So really he came in with zero and he li And he lied on a He actually came in with legal document. So he lied on a legal document too. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. When did all this happen, Sarah? How long ago?

About two months ago. Okay. And I have to say I'm still in shock. Sure. Sure.

Um how's the business doing? Is is it going into the business and his business is tanking or does he when you look at his business is is there profit

and he's just not bringing that back into the personal side? His No, no, his

business is not doing anywhere near as well as it used to or as it was. And um

he has been lying about how well it's doing. Wow. And um you know you know and

uh just you know like I'm I'm a budgeter

you know like if you tell me hey you know only this much money is coming in I'll just you know pull out a spreadsheet and say hey let's start budgeting but that's not what happened instead you know we're going on vacations. Yeah. Instead we're you know doing things like that that we shouldn't be doing um if you have debt. Um, so

he's also racked up about $130,000

now in personal debt. Can Can I ask you a Can I ask you a question? Cuz he's not here, so I can't question him in the same way. Yeah. What was the inside of you that made you go, I need to sign a prenup with this guy?

Was there a red flag already? No, it was

No, there wasn't. It was just the fact that our that our uh net worths were so

vastly so different. Yeah. Different.

Yeah. Yeah. Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So, are you separating from him?

Um, no, I feel um we have two very small

children. M and again I'm still very much in shock but we have two very small children and I know the statistics with uh growing home going in a home is you know growing up in a home with a broken household and I don't want that for my children either. Yeah. Are you in counseling? They're just so young. Are you guys in counseling? Will he go? No.

Uh um he said he would go but to be quite frank afford right now.

Well, if you're going to make this the

marriage part work, Sarah, you're married to a liar. And not just a liar

like here and there. Like I mean, this is like a this is Yeah, this is a there's there's something there's something wrong deeply deeply deeply wrong um with him and in the process

he's hurting his family. And so for you to draw boundaries for yourself does not make you a bad mom. Uh, I just want to I just want to give you freedom to do what's best for Sarah in this moment and to to for this to be a healthy longevity

you know level of a marriage there is

there is a lot of broken broken broken pieces and without a professional I really believe uh to be in the mix of this and and and for him to show deep remorse and a pattern of

change until you have trust I'm separating everything today. Sarah, financially, you need to protect yourself. Um, you need to your income

now goes into a different account with his name nowhere near it. I would contact a lawyer um just on the basis of

lying about a prenup. Uh, I would just get some more information to protect yourself and your kids because I have I

have already done most of that and um I'm in the midst of a a postup

which he has agreed to where you go back and and have like basically a prenup in the middle of the marriage. Is that is that what that is? Changing the prenup to make it correct to where you guys currently are. No, no, no. Um, so I'm

just reiterating that like um his debt is his debt and even if I decided to

let's say help him get out of his debt

that I would not be, you know, I'm expecting to get reimbursed at some point, it's not just Yeah. my responsibility. I hear you. Yeah.

Well, what we find so much often, Sarah, with these um I mean that this I mean the the level of financial infidelity that you've experienced is the level of an affair. I mean it, you know, you can you can put anything in place, but that you start to question yourself. I mean, there's so much in that when you are so deeply lied to from the person that you're supposed to be in a marriage with.

my own therapist. I would have him go to therapy if you're going to make this work, but I would also protect yourself until a pattern is proven that he's proven back his trust with finances. But for now, I would keep it separate and you have your stuff.

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You are listening to the Ramsay Show.

And hey, thank you for listening to this show. This show is bringing hope to so many people, changing millions of lives.

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So thank you for listening, thank you for liking, thank you for subscribing, and thank you, thank you for sharing this show. We really, really appreciate it. It helps us oh so much. So keep doing that.

And in the meantime, we're going to go to the phones. We got Brenda. She's in Jackson, Mississippi.

Hello. Um hi, Jade and Rachel. Thank you for um taking my call. You bet. Um me

and my husband are having a little bit of a disagreement about a job that's coming up. Um me and my husband are in baby step three. Um so saving up for

that 3 to six month emergency fund. Um

my uh my husband and I just run a little

side gig of um handyman service. We have

not been formally trained or anything, but we work on our own house and um so do it for friends and family that need help. Um the job that's coming up this

weekend is for a missionary friend of ours. Um the wife doesn't work and the husband works two small part-time jobs

and um they had a leak in their bathroom

and they knew about it but didn't deal with it for a couple of years. So now the damage is pretty extensive.

Um so uh my husband wants to charge them

about uh $10 an hour for us to do the

work. Um they will cover the materials.

Um in addition and then but I want to

charge our standard service which is about $50 an hour. Oh, okay. Um he says

that they're poor um and so we shouldn't

charge them and they have told us that

they don't really have the money to do it but it's getting to the point where their shower is about to fall through the floor. Did they come to you because they figured you would give them a discount? Like have they given any indication that it's like oh they'll probably give us a discount?

Not necessarily,

but they they know that we're going to be cheaper than a regular contractor that's going to come out and do it. I mean, Brenda, how long how long would the How long would the project take? How long would the project take? Two to four days, depending on how extensive it is

once we get into it, if it's worse than we think it is. And if you did it, that would be the only thing you could work on for the two to four days. Yes. But

it's time that my husband has off anyway, so it's not like we're taking off additional work. Yeah. I mean, if

you feel like you're being taken advantage of, that's one thing for sure that doesn't feel good ever to anyone.

Um, but we also when we talk about giving, you know, there's giving in money, there's giving in time, there's giving in talents, and maybe it's a thing your husband's like, "Yeah, I just feel called to help this family." And they're in a really rough situation.

They don't have the money to fix something like their water. Like I mean it's kind of a need. It's a necessity.

And I mean if he wants to do it and and

again I think it's a one-off if it becomes a pattern where he constantly is using his time and keeps losing money continually maybe like a red flag but for two days if it's something that he wants to do. Um I mean I get you guys are on baby step three. I understand it.

And again if you're being taken advantage of like that feels gross, right? Like there's a there's a level there where you're like I don't know if that feels right. And but I feel like if he wants to do it out of just who he is

and he can and y'all aren't paying y'all. It's no out of pocket for y'all.

It's really just time at that point. Um

I don't know. I I I I could see it. But I'm more of like the emotional side person when it comes to that stuff. I'm like, "Yeah, absolutely.

We can do it." But I don't want it to be detrimental to you guys. But I don't think 20 I don't think two days is detrimental. I mean, I'll tell I'll tell you what my husband and I do because I'm always the one that's like, "Let's give this much." And he's like, "Uh, cool out. Like, let's pull back.

Like, let me let me look at the numbers." And so, what we always do is we agree to pray about it. Like, you go over there and pray about it. I'll go over here and pray about it. And then when we come together, it's like 1 2 3 say it.

that's trying to do the most. And he's come up a little bit, you know, and so then from there, we just kind of meet in the middle. So maybe it's, you know, you want to charge the whole $50 an hour. He was doing 10. Maybe it's like, hey,

maybe getting off this call, you're like, "Fine, I'll just do what he wants to do." But if you're not, like, go pray about it. Give yourselves 24 hours or whatever time you have and then meet in the middle. Like you'll either come out on on the same card or it's something that you have to meet in the middle and maybe it's like, "Okay, we're not going to charge 50, but we're going to charge 25 and we're going to give them half rate." Whatever it is. Um Yeah.

Or maybe it's a time thing too that if you guys get into it and it's going to take an a day beyond that that you guys may say, "Hey, there's a point that we're not going to be able to continue this because of XY andZ." And letting them know that upfront.

We know they follow We know they've heard about the Ramsy plan and they agree with it, but we also know that

they they don't have the money. Yeah.

But did they say that to you guys? It's like we don't have money to fix this.

Well, not necessarily, but they told us that they might put like we we said we would need money up front to pay for the materials and they said, "Well, if we don't get paid this week, um like if our check isn't big enough, we'll just put it on a credit card." And that's when my husband was like, "No, well, no, we don't really have to that much." Yep.

So, again, I think the point is, you know, we didn't put him in this position. and they knew about this leak for years and they did nothing about it.

Sure. It could have been a cheaper fix.

So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And and again,

I think if there are people in your lives that you continue to enable and continue to give and give and give and give and give and they don't ch I mean, like there's a there's a level that you could start to be taken advantage of for sure. But if you haven't had history of that or history going forward and he just feels this like tug on his heart of like I just feel like you know I I want to do this not because I have to or because I feel bad like you know what I mean like there's bad there's not great motivations always like it needs to be something that he's like listen I see this family I know I can do this I'm going to give them two days I'm going to give them a significant discount they need the help and I feel called to do that like that may be what he wants to do you know what I mean but I do think yes I hear you Brenda that it doesn't feel right.

Like there's not a level of justice there. She's not working. She could go and get a job and bring in money.

What's the real numbers here? Cuz you gave us by hour. Like what how how much money is this equating to?

So if it was my fee, it would be um

$1,000 to $1,500, not including materials. And we don't upcharge on materials at all. Okay. Um, and if it

was my husband's, it would just be $200 flat. And who covers the materials? They do. They still cover the materials. Yes.

So, it's about $300 in materials and then an additional $200 for labor. So,

$500 total.

Okay. So, we're talking about the difference between like $200 or $1,800.

Uh, no. uh $1,500 or $500. Okay. So,

it's a,000. The material is 300 and it'd be the same either way. So, it's $1,000

difference. Um, you know,

I I wouldn't tell you what to do. I mean, I can sit here and be like, listen, if you guys have the money, do it. But at the same time, you and your husband have to be on the same page. And that's something that Rachel and I can't do for you. So, listen, take my advice.

Go home and give yourself a quick little bit of time and be like we're going to pray about it. We're going to take you get 24 hours, I get 24 hours. We're going to reconvene and no matter where we hit, we're going to meet in the middle and then there is some bit of

give and some bit of take because I would be feeling some type of way if I was like this is my this is my vacation time. Like we are supposed to go away with the family and do something fun because then it's not only the time but it's the value of the time too. So there are yeah if he's having to take PTO and all Yes. I think that there's yes wise ways to go about it, but if you're self-employed, he's doing his own thing and he has two days that he wants to go and help.

I don't know. I think service is a great way to give. Yes.

Time is so valuable. It's so valuable.

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a conundrum. But, you know, I always like to live to lean a little bit on the side of generosity.

I mean, you have to do what you can afford and what makes sense for your family. Um, but yes, generosity is very,

very important. That does it for this hour of the Ramsay Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. Check us out next hour.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Jade Warshaw, and we are here to answer your questions. So, give us a call at88255225.

[Music] We'll be answering your questions about life, about money, relationships, career, anything or everything. We are here for you, America. All right, up next we have Josh in Sacramento, California. Hey Josh, welcome to the show. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me and taking my calls. Absolutely. Kind of go straight to the point. Straight to the point. I I live in the People's Republic of California. I'm trying to leave this state. Uh what I have a problem with is

it's kind of a financial and life career as well. So right now I'm a federal government employee. I am seven years out from retirement or when I'm eligible. Uh my wife is a nurse. She

makes really good money in California and they make around $90 an hour. Uh my

my goal is to one sell my house, transfer to a different position and to a different state uh within the same agency. Um just because I have a very toxic work environment going on right now and I just I need to get out. Um but the problem is is if my wife leaves the state of California, she'd go from $90 an hour to $30 an hour, which is a huge financial huge financial cut. Um she'd

also probably lose her 401k as well as that. Um, we did talk about doing foster

to adopt uh in the event that we did move. But my question to you, I guess, is am I just being cutting my nose off despite my face and just should I just deal with it knowing the fact that I have seven years left to retirement? My house will be paid off in four years. You sound like you're at the end of your like rope. You sound really frustrated. Are you? Oh, I am. I'm very frustrated. Yes, I'm very frustrated.

I've I've wanted to transfer. I've wanted to transfer and get out of the state for 17 years of my career. Does your wife want to leave as well besides the money? I know she'll take a pay cut, but just in general, her family's here, but she realizes how frustrated I am.

Mhm. And like I said, my my boss is just

horrible right now. And it's been going on for a long time. Oh, yeah. Yes, it

has. So, my question to you is, am I being emotionally stupid by wanting to leave just so I can quote unquote have a more happy life to trade one stress for another for financial stress. Is it California like Okay, so if you you work for the state the whole gambit it's it's California. The state sucks. The high taxes, the just getting out of everything. All right. Um Okay. You are Yeah, you you're at your wits. You're done. You're done. Um Okay.

So, if you were to leave, what would you do and where would you go? Uh I'd

basically stay with the same federal agency. Um, I would go from what I'm doing now to basically to just a different function or job function, but just to the same pay. Is there I would get it a little bit I'm glad it would be a lower cost of living which would be 13 grand a year where but I'd imagine that so it'd be from California possibly to Georgia but I'm wondering if the tax rate out of

Well, that's where that's where the position is at for my agency. Have you ever been to Georgia? Okay. Have you ever been? Yes, I have. Okay. What's your wife think about Georgia?

sections that she hates. So, okay.

Because here's the thing, Josh. I mean, I can hear you're frustrated and I I mean, I could only imagine. I mean, I I understand it is from from like just the state perspective that you're frustrated with and then on top of that, you have a terrible job. You go and work somewhere for 40, 50 hours a week. Yeah. In a miserable place. So, yeah, you're you're not in a good this isn't like a good headsp space for Josh. So, my question is um you're not the only one in this

equation, right? So your wife is is going to have as much of an input um in

the situ in this decision too because um

I think that there there has to be this you know I I don't know but if she is not on board resentment later on in life

go you know moving away from family going to a place she hates she's going to end up being you in four years possibly I don't know but that's a warning sign is just like you guys need to be so tightknit on this decision because it's a deal to move across the country. Um, so so you guys need to lock arms and like be full like we are in this together. The the the good, the bad, the ugly. We are in this together because I don't want your marriage to be destroyed in the process either, right?

And I want to be able to give her a voice, too. And her frustrations may not be as deep as yours. Um, and I don't want her and I and honestly, Josh, the motivation for her, I'm like I there's a part of me that I'm like I I would hate for her to do it just just to make you happy because because Josh is frustrated. So we got to go do what Josh wants to do, right? So, like there needs to be a level of agreement upon you guys. Um, and I thought plan B too,

which I know you hate California, but is there a different position you could take wi where you guys live? A different job, a different opportunity at least to get out of the toxicness of that job and

then just have the frustrations with the taxes in California. I don't know.

But if you and your wife agree to move to Georgia, then make the move. You're not. No, leaving a job 7 years away from retirement is not stupid because the

work is you're you're in a terrible situation. So, no, that is not stupid to leave that. No, I listen I I am of the

mind that if one spouse is completely

unhappy, then the neither nobody's happy. That's true. So, I do think that probably a move is good, but if she has come out and said, "I don't really like Georgia," then Georgia's got to be off the table. Uh, you've got to pick a place where both of you are like, "Yeah, I feel Yeah, I'm up for that adventure." And I mean, there's 50. I don't want to say 50 states. What is it now? 49.

No, it's 50. But don't the other territories count? Okay. So, there's 50 states and then some territories depending on what history book you look in. Okay. And so, there's a lot of options here is what I'm saying. Um, going back to the conversation about the 401k quickly, what made you say that she'd lose her 401k?

So, so, well, I wouldn't say she would lose her 401k. What she do is she would stop contributing to a 401k. So, she would be able to take it out. Yeah, you just transfer it.

You just transfer it, right? Okay. I just want to be clear about that. So, I guess the issue is me is, you know, I've only got seven years left.

My mortgage will be done in four years on my house. My wife is going from $90 an hour to basically 30 if she decides to work. If not, then it's like it's a huge Let me ask Let me ask you this. Is there any world where you're like I is there any world where you're willing to ride this out longer because you're the person who brought up in just seven years I'll retire and in just four years I'll have my car paid off so or I'm sorry my house paid off.

know what I'm saying? Like are those things that you're weighing in or are you beyond that? So here's the problem.

Emotionally and mentally I'm just I am checked out. Mhm. The problem is is I don't want to live life on the emotional aspect. I know logically, financially,

it makes more sense to stay. However, I don't know if I can emotionally and mentally handle it for your Yeah.

mentally and emotionally is going to be because you could be debtree and still be miserable in your job like and you're not saying this is after 6 months.

You've said for years for years you've been upset. Yeah. I thought about most my career probably about 10 last 10 years. My career has gotten a little. So, it's safe to say that you have sacrificed a certain level. Why have you stayed in it, Josh? I'm curious. What was that? Why have you stayed in it for 10 years? Uh, the pension in early retirement. Okay. So, this is a good lesson for America that money does not equate to happiness. There is a level of

your life that as adults, we have to decide to bring a level of peace and just and to work a crappy I would say a different word, but we're on a familyfriendly show. crappy crappy situation just to make a paycheck. You guys, it's not worth it. Like life is too short.

Life is too short, Josh. So, you and your wife, I would sit down, you guys. Yeah. Pick a place on the map and say, "We're going to transform." And we may even be in different careers, but we're going to find the level of peace and enjoyment, and we may make less, but people that make less and live within their means and work somewhere, they're happy.

y'all got to make some changes for sure. And you should have made them eight years ago, if I'm being honest. It's not to shame you, but we need to make some decisions here, Josh. We're rooting for you. Come to Nashville. This is the Ramsay Show.

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may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Justin in California. He says, "I've been working hard to save money for a house. My wife and I have no debt and have a six-month emergency fund. So far, I've saved $175,000 for our down payment. We have a combined income of 140,000. We live in California

and are looking at houses in the $650,000 range. I want to save more so

that we can put uh more down on the house. My wife has been asking me to buy her a diamond ring that costs about $3,500.

I am holding off on buying the ring because we can use that money to pay for closing costs. Should I buy a diamond ring for her or wait until we buy the house? This is wild. Um, I'm assuming

that the diamond ring is not like an

like a wedding ring or like I'm I'm assuming it's just a gift that she wants. Right. Right. Um, yeah. I think

based on what you've laid out here, I would have loved to hear her side of it.

But based off of what you've laid out here, it sounds like you have decided that the priority is the house. And at the end of the day, you both need to sit down and retalk and say, "Okay, what's more important? Us trying to get into this house?" Because if I buy this ring,

this is how much it sets us back. So, yeah. And I would want to know the time frame on how much like how how many months or how you know what I mean? Like just to know like how how is this setting you back and is that are you are you okay with that both of you? Yeah.

And I do think it's okay. Uh and Rachel, you can drop in here. I think it's okay like as a couple when you set a focus and you're going towards that thing and as the time passes other things crop up and you're like, "Oh, that could be cool or that could be fun." Yes. And I do think it's important to have those conversations and decide, are we realigning back on what the goal was or are we going to divert here for a moment?

Because at the end of the day, it is your life and you get to decide, you know, how how urgently are we moving. That's right. And I don't know if this diamond ring was something you've been promising her. Maybe you guys got engaged and you never got her a ring.

I don't know any of that, but have the conversation. But it sounds like the house is what's most important.

Yeah. So, I'm like, you're in a good a good spot for the down payments. Um, you know, like it's a I don't know, you you have a lot there percentage-wise for what the house is worth. Um, so how much would 3,000 really set you back? But also, I'd want to know from her like, you know, and I do, you know, don't get me wrong, I love jewelry, I love shopping, all of it. But also, you're like, "Okay, what what is that going to get me in the in the near term?" Right?

Maybe maybe he maybe he got her just like a band when they got married and always promised her like an actual like diamond ring. I don't know the story. So, that's valid. If there's something there. Um, but I would want to see time

frame how long this would set you back

to the goal that you want to have for your down payment on the house. That's what I'd be curious about. Hope that helps, Justin. All right. Up next, we have Haley in Omaha. Hey Haley, welcome

to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me today. It's such an honor to be on the show.

Absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

So, my parents took out a universal life policy on me when I was born. Me and my sister both. And now that I've turned 21, I have the option to continue paying

those payments for the universal life policy or cashing it out with the cash value and gifting that back to my parents and and just moving on for the

future. Oh, you have to give it back to them when you cash it out?

Yes. Is that what they said?

Yeah. Okay. Okay. How much will it be?

Um, it's just $750 for the cash value.

Okay. Okay. Gotcha. I'm just curious because you said you have the option to keep paying on it or cash it out. Yes.

So, that's interesting to me that you would keep paying on it and then but if

you were to cash it out, you have to give the money back to them. This is very odd. Either way, I would cash it out and get out of that. Yeah. How old are you, Haley? Did you say I'm I'm 21.

21. Okay. So the difference between what

they have a universal life policy is similar to like it's like basically a whole life polic policy and you're paying probably four times the amount

than what you would pay for just a standard term policy because what you have um this universal life what they basically pair is this like investment savings account with life insurance. And what ends up happening when you pair and marry those two products, you kind of get crappy on both, especially the

savings side. So the rate of return usually within these policies is like it's terrible. You could do better in a high yield savings account, much less like actually investing your money with the 10 12% return, you know, that the market brings. So the the savings investment portion sucks on these and that's the selling point.

So, always remember this, Haley, going forward into adulthood that you want to keep your insurance and your investing completely separate. Never combine them because when you combine them, you're not getting the best of both worlds. You're paying more for a policy and you're getting a crappy investment with it. So, like it's a horrible product.

And a lot of parents, yeah, you took it out when you were born. I mean, 20 that's the Gerber life insurance. I mean, like all these companies go and they do this, you know, these policies for babies and and why you need life insurance too, Haley, is if someone is dependent upon your income.

would cancel it. Say goodbye to the $700. Give it back to your parents, okay? And live your life. Don't don't be paying monthly on this. And then when you need life insurance, aka when you usually when you become a parent or even a if you get married um you know and someone is dependent upon your income to live the lifestyle that you guys are living then I want you to go mention

that I could have this policy if I were to like pass away and then someone were to have to pay for my funeral cost. So that's why this policy is around like $25,000.

Sure. Okay. something you would recommend having savings for or a policy for? The purpose of insurance is for people who are dependent on your income.

Typically, when you have life insurancees in place, it's because like for instance, I have life insurance in place because my family depends on my income. My husband has life insurance in place because we depend on his income. We have children and so if one of us, God forbid, if something were to happen, the family will feel that.

That's the blessing that can come out of a really tough situation. So in this case, your parents having a policy on you was completely truly unnecessary.

Yeah. and the funeral cost, you know, idea. Funerals, they are getting more expensive, but at 21 years old, I would not have the burden of feeling like I need to have savings for my funeral, right? So, like that I I would not add that into the conversation.

Some people may be like, "That's irresponsible." But as a 21-year-old, your parents will take care of it if something were to happen to you, Haley. Um, so yeah, I would not be paying monthly into something just for that. Uh, and that is a selling point they say too, right? Like that's right.

To cover the funeral and all of that.

uh, get in a position in life though that you need life insurance. Remember, term life is going to be your best friend. And the earlier you get it, the younger you are, the healthier you are, it is like it it is so inexpensive. Even for me, I'm in my late 30s and and it's still inexpensive at this point. I mean, like it is it is u a fraction of what

you pay with whole life. So, and the coverage you get for that is Yes. Amaz.

Yes. And for term life, it is for a term of your life, right? Whole life is for your entire life. Term is for, you know, a 20 year, 30, whatever policy you buy.

But as you're doing the Ramsay baby steps and you're walking through getting out of debt, you have an emergency fund in place. You're funding retirement.

Eventually, your house is paid off. You know, baby steps millionaires are doing all of this on average in about 9 to 12

years, doing everything. And at that point, you're self-insured. when you when you if something were to happen to you and there's no house payment, there's no debt and you have I don't know 300 grand in a 401k or whatever it is, like you know, everyone's fine. So, you won't need life insurance for your entire life if you're doing the Ramsay way when it comes to your money, which is what we recommend.

I feel like it's a great call, Haley. Great question. Whole life universal life. It's like the spork.

It's a spork. It's not really a fork. It's not really a spoon. Yeah.

And if you go to Xander, Xander insurance.com, you guys check out Xander because you're able to get a quote so quickly with them uh just to even see and compare maybe the insurance that you all have that are listening or watching and maybe you can get a better deal because they go and shop many companies and it's a great great company.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We have

Katie on the line from Dallas from the last segment. And Katie was telling us she has $47,000 saved, $24,000 in debt,

which was car and credit cards. And she was wondering initially when she called in about um how to invest and how to pay off debt, not just let that money sit there because she wants to make progress. And as we kind of were digging into to the numbers in her situation, kind of unpacking um the relational side

of money and marriage and money is so closely related. uh when you are married, working together with your spouse and being on the same team is a crucial part. But also, we know on the other end, it's one of the leading causes of fights and tension and divorce and conflict and uh when you're not on the same page and when and when you live kind of separate lives financially. And as we were unpacking with Katie a little bit, that's what we've kind of started to discover is um where they are from a

relational standpoint when it comes to their money. Katie, is that a good overview? Would you change any of that or add anything? Oh gosh, that was unexpected. Yes, you've definitely unpacked it. We unpacked it. Yeah. So,

before we were uh getting off the call, we just kind of asked and and I feel like you it kind of struck some emotion in you um of knowing that you guys don't

work together, but yet he has a lot of

debt and you said it was just too much debt for you to even want to handle or to face. Is that right? Yeah. Um my

parents, they they they got divorced

because of money.

So that's a big kind of the background.

Um my husband, he's he has let some a few

credit cards go to collections uh recently as soon as my daughter was born. Um he just he's been underwater

for what feels like a long time. Um probably two years already. Mhm. And if I mention

this, you're going to say sell it. Well, tell us the truck. It's the truck. Um, he has

11,000 left on it, but it's these monthly payments of $600 that he he

wants to be free from. Okay. Okay. What other debt does he have?

What's the the credit cards and collections? What are what are those amount to? Do you know?

I I want to say roughly it's

7,000. Okay. Okay. Anything else?

Now you've opened my eyes. Not No, not that I know of. Maybe I need to have a discussion with him. I I think so because don't get me wrong, I I I hate debt and I don't like any amount or form

of debt. But I was again expecting for you to say like he's got $200,000 of like I was expecting something way more astronomical. And when you told us, hey,

yeah, he's got $18,000 of debt. I kind of just was like, oh, okay, cool. Like we can pay that off. And he's working, right? Yes, he is. Okay, let me dig deeper. I just it just came in. Um, so he has we have this watercraft uh boat.

It is under both of our names. Uh, but he takes financial responsibility for it and the balance is 11,000. Okay. So,

there's another 11K. What else? So,

anything else? Um, aside from his truck,

the car, and a few credit cards, there is nothing else. So, a truck and a car.

Uh, sorry. The the truck and the boat.

Okay. Truck and the boat. So, we're 28,000. How much How much is the boat worth? Do you know?

No idea. Okay. Okay. We haven't looked into it. It's very precious. Okay. And

does he have any money saved in his name?

No. No. Okay. So, um Okay. Okay. So,

Katie, I think what this starts to open

up and what you're feeling, and correct

me if I'm wrong, but it is touching every security insecurity part of your story and in your life. Like, you've done everything you can to stock money away. Even taking out credit cards and and spending over here, but just knowing the safety of money has been a lifeline

for you and probably coming out of a lot of pain from your parents' experience and you've done everything to safeguard yourself, right? um against I would say

against debt, but what's funny is you've taken on some debt, right? So, there is still a level of risk there, but you've padded yourself with the savings and it's kind of become your lifeline and you're gripping onto that and letting go of that is one of the scariest things for you to do. Would that be correct?

Yes. Yeah. Which is very understandable, Katie. Very understandable. And so I want you to as much as you can because with money emotions drive so much of this. And the more logical we can get,

the safer I think you're going to feel with some of these decisions. And one of the first steps um I would do is sit down with him because I don't know his I'm not on the phone with him and I can't ask him these questions. I don't know where he's at. If he is at a place, Katie, that he's like, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so mad at myself, right? He's probably not feeling great about himself and it's like I want to change. I want to turn this around.

That's that's one scenario. A scenario I would have a red flag and cause you to pump the brakes a little bit on all of this if he's like I don't care. I don't care. I'm going to do what I want.

And we get those calls too with some guys that are like, "Well, he wants to buy the truck. He doesn't care. He's going to buy it and we're, you know, we can't make the payment, but he doesn't care." Right. So, like that is a character issue if it's that.

Would you say it's kind of the first scenario or the second? I'm pretty sure he will call the show tomorrow.

Saturday. Yeah. But so he's more of on the fir on that first, you know, scenario. You would say he's all for it.

Okay. Okay. So, Katie, okay. I I just I want to encourage you that you're this is all good, right? Like I I know you feel overwhelmed and we're going to walk you through a very clear plan right now.

Um, so the first thing I want you to do is you guys together tonight,

you can open a bottle of wine if you need like just a good sip of something, whatever you got to do to relax and say, "Okay, together we're going to look at everything. We're getting out our um pay subs. We're going to know exactly." When I asked you how much money you guys make a year, you said I think around six.

Like I want you to know to the dollar.

Here's what we make combined. Here's every debt. We're gonna write it out and we're going to know everything here and we're going to tonight shake hands and say we are now a team together. No

longer are we roommates vinmoing each other for the mortgage. No. Screw all of that. No, we are one.

Our income when our income hits our new checking account that we're going to open on Monday morning. When our income hits that account together, we are working as a team. Because when you do that, Katie, not only from an emotional perspective does it create so much unity and so much of a more beautiful marriage cuz you see yourselves as one, which is what you do when you choose to get married to live life with another person. You're you're living that out on a tactical sense with your money.

So that's such a beautiful part of it. And then together tactically as you start to trust each other in this, you're going to have this cleaned up, Katie. I would sell the boat immediately.

And this is going to scare you, but I would pay off all I would keep a,000 and and you would have you have I think 42,000 if you if you don't count the boat cuz I want that sold, right? You're going to pay off everything else. Okay.

And so you're going to have $5,000 left and you guys together are going to have a goal, I would say, to save up uh probably, I don't know, 26 27,000 for an emergency fund. Mhm. And you're going to that's your next goal together, Katie, is to work to to buff up that emergency fund. Okay.

And that's going to take you guys, you know, maybe the next 8 n months, 10 months to do all of that um for that emergency fund. But together, that's going to be your goal for 2025 together doing this, getting rid of the payments. We're done with payments.

What? 5,000 left.

What' you say? 5,000 left. Yeah, I would have 5,000 left. So, I'm paying off my two credit cards. Yes.

I'm paying off my car. Yes.

Selling the boat. Mhm. And you suggested

paying off the truck. Yes. Mhm. Oh gosh,

that's scary. Is it scary because of what's going to be left? the 5,000 or it's scary that you're paying off his debt. That's great.

You know what might make it less scary if I were you? I'd calculate up all the monthly payments. I'd calculate what you're paying in car payments, what you're paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in boat payments, and what you're paying in truck payments. Add up all that money.

And when you see that that you're going to have that back every single month, I think that's going to make you feel less scared cuz that's a lot. That's a hefty chunk. You have a lot of your income, Katie, leaving and a lot of it's going to be coming back to you and you'll be able to build this emergency fund up back very, very quickly. And then beyond that, you can start investing. Hold on.

Stay on the line, Katie, and uh Emily's going to pick up and we're going to put you guys through Financial Peace University. It's our nine lesson course and give you every dollar premium. So when you guys start looking at numbers today, you can start building out your first budget. Thanks for the call, Katie. We're cheering you guys on.

[Music]

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[Music]

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So, go to ramiesolutions.com/store or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next, we have Vanessa in

Seattle. Hey, Vanessa, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. Um, okay, so I'm just going to dive right in. So, I'm a 54 year old woman. I live in the Seattle area. Um, I

am not working right now. I'm at the tail end of a bankruptcy. I was married

and I got I there was just too much debt. I couldn't there was no way that I could get out of that. So, um I did file bankruptcy. It just discharged and um so

there's that. Having, you know, just starting over with credit, I uh I am not

going to have a place to live as of December. At the end of December, the owners of the home that I've been living in have decided to sell. Uh it's and

it's been an absolute shock because my ex-husband completely remodeled the inside and I thought for sure, you know, I'd have some time here. Oh, wow. So, gosh, you've had a lot, Vanessa. I have a lot going on my Yes. Yes. I'm so sorry. Divorce and the bankruptcy and a living situation that's up in the air.

And you said your ex-husband remodeled the inside of the rental house. He did of a rental. Yeah. Because when y'all were living there together, we were for four months and then he moved out. It was an abusive uh marriage. So, it took me a long time to get out of that, but I did. I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. So, I was making uh anywhere between 15 and

18,000 with an eBay business while I was

married. He was the primary um you know

he he had the job he was bringing in very good money but we were renting in the previous house we were at for nine years. So um this was my third marriage.

I just want to say that if if I knew that I was going to be here I would already have a house but it just didn't

work out that way. So okay. So, yes, it was What are you doing

right now, Vanessa, for um How are you paying your rent right now? How are you paying for expenses?

Well, I I was living off my savings and then I lo on top of everything, I lost my daughter. It was very sudden. Um she she died. She was 26. I'm sorry, Lisa. I

know. There's so much going on. So, that

just killed me. I mean it so hard so

horrible you know any there's nothing like losing a child it's horrible I can't even imagine so it's been hard you

know to work um to concentrate on eBay to do anything really I mean it just completely I was debilitated and just

from everything so did you get anything out of the the out of the divorce

I did and I've been living on that for the last three years Um, uh, let's see.

So, I was receiving maintenance and then I I had about 50,000 saved. So, what's

that down to now?

It's down to zero. However, there is some good news. I just inherited $30,000. Okay. So, I need to know what

to do with my $30,000. I don't have any debt other than the car payment. I have a car payment that's 300 a month. And how much do you owe on the car? What's the total amount you owe on the car? I owe about 18,000 on that. Okay. So 18 to

20 it's it might be about 20 with the payoff. Fine. Okay. Um so but if I take

that Yeah. Let us let us let us give you some help here. And real quick will you just give me a quick timeline? These are big these are big things that have happened. Will you will you just kind of walk me through really quickly? Really quickly when the divorce happened, the loss of your daughter and the bankruptcy when when did all this play out? Okay.

So the bankruptcy was um it it just

discharged. So that was 90 days. It's been about four months total with that.

Okay. Um losing my daughter happened um

it was last January. So it's been a it's been a year and a half. Okay. Okay. And my divorce um we separated after we

moved into this home which was November of 2021. So he moved out in April of

2022. Okay. So since then I have been

living off of what I have what I got

what I received from that. That's good.

I just want to know cuz I mean these are like three very traumatic things that have occurred. I just didn't know how timeline wise. Um because I think for you Vanessa this um I mean your your the biggest glaring light that I see is is

the income side um of not because as you

experience with the 50,000 if you continue to live on savings and you're not you know replacing that with other income it eventually dwindles and that's

what you've experienced. And so making sure that this $30,000 does not dwindle.

And the only way to really do that is to be able to be bringing in some income.

Um which I know is so

sorry. No, you're good. Go ahead. Um okay. So I I've been working on my master's degree. I was busy with that in art history. Now what I'm going to do with that, I have no idea. I mean people what are you gonna um art history. Yeah.

Because I love I just love it. I love architecture, art. What did you plan to do with it when you got it? And yeah, that and how are you paying for it? I don't know. May maybe teach. Um I was I

was paying for my uh my

education as I went. So I still have some I have some loans I think. Oh, I'm

not sure exactly. Yeah, I have student I wasn't able to f You can't file on those. So not able to get that. We gota

we got to get organized and we got to get a game plan going forward. Right now is not the time to keep taking those classes because you can't afford to pay for them and you still have some existing student loan debt. It sounds like you've got the 18,000 for this car.

What I believe your homework should be and I think Rachel would probably agree is first things first is you got to get a job. Yeah. And and this is and you

know this is Target Vanessa. I mean this is making 18 an hour at Walmart. I mean, this is truly doing what you can because the decisions so far are not panning out

in reality for you, right? An art history degree, well, I'm going to go get a master's, but I don't know what I want to do with it, right? So, I want to make sure the ROI on your time is realistic and and so being able just to

get something in, I think it'll be good for you, Vaness. I think there's going to be a level of dignity and confidence of you going and earning your own money.

Um, that's going to be huge. So, for the time being, I mean, it would be tomorrow I would be out and just retail. Um,

whatever you can just to be getting an income in and then eventually figuring out what does Vanessa want to do and what can Vanessa do to support herself and be able to, you know, advance throughout life. You know, you're you're in your 50s and there's, you know, there's still a Yeah. a great life to live and I want you to be able to do that. Um, but the steps would be number one, finding a job tomorrow, any job.

And I would be I would be working like crazy. I think my goal would be not to touch the 30,000. That would be the goal. And I think selling the car is probably selling in the car is big because you don't need an $18,000 car, Vanessa. You need a $6,000 car. And then third, I'd say you know that you know that the time is coming where you won't be living in this house anymore. So let's start doing research on a place that we can live live that's less

expensive possibly, right? Studio apartment. I mean just tiny. I mean anything. Again, it's going to be uncomfortable for a little bit, but I think making some of these wiser, more conservative decisions is going to give you some bandwidth and some margin. You need it. Yes. Okay. The car might be a little bit tricky. And the reason is because I kept that through the bankruptcy and then just negotiated the interest rate. So, if I let that go, then it's going to hit my credit, which I want squeaky clean from here forward.

Um, possibly. Yeah, I pro I probably

could sell it at because Yeah, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about you you looking on Kelly Blue Book, decide and seeing what it's worth and then you selling it and buying something cheaper in cash, not a payment. Yep, that's right. Okay, Vanessa, that's a lot.

Um, why don't you hang on the line? Christian will pick up and we'll get you with a Ramsay coach to help you. Well, if you're listening on radio, keep on listening, but if you are on YouTube or podcast, make sure to go download the Ramsay Show app to get the third hour there. Thanks to everyone in the booth.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my friend and bestselling author Jade Warshaw. And we are here again to help you out, America. You can give us a call at88255225

and we'll answer your questions about money, about life, relationships, career. Give us a call. Up first we have John in Houston. Hey John, welcome to the show. Hello. Welcome. Thanks for or

thanks for having me, I guess. Absolutely. Yes, for sure. How can we help?

Well, I uh I filed for divorce for my wife um about a month ago. Lots has transpired since. We're we're kind of trying to maybe make it work going to marriage counseling. M um in the interim

of all this, we kind of split our finances about 2 or 3 months ago due to her spending and daughter. That's a long story. Um so fast forward to this um

this last week, I got a uh a bonus from work, a $30,000 bonus. Um by the time it was put in the bank, it was about $24,000.

Um I currently owe $11,000 on a credit

card. Um most of that is for the divorce attorney. Um, and then I the other issue I have is I I have during COVID, we had two credit cards with Chase that we quit paying because we lost our jobs and obviously employed now, but um there's a lawsuit pending against me and those are about $26,000 each. Um,

so I don't know what to do with this bonus money. One, I I don't know if I should tell the wife or not because we're not divorced. We're trying to work. That that's part of it. But the other part is do I keep the cash and try to settle with Chase? Do I pay off the current credit card that I have so I can get be back to debtree sort ofish other

than my home? Um just not real sure.

Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. What um any other money saved?

Um I have just a couple thousand dollars in the bank. Nothing nothing major.

Okay. Okay. By a couple like six or like

two like two. Okay. Yes. Two. So the

bonus is 3,000. Yes. No. No. The bonus

is 24,000. 24,000. My my hearing is off

today. Okay. So, what do you think you

can settle these Chase cards for? Have you kind of floated it out there to them? I I talked to uh the debt attorney

that I that I filed the lawsuits. He said they may be a 25,000 or 25%

reduction. Yeah. So, he's thinking they could probably settle for about 20,000 each. Each. That'd be a total of 40.

Okay. So, but they're two separate cases. So I don't One's coming up the 1st of September and the other one I don't have a date on yet. Okay. So the one coming up the 1st of September if you can settle it. I think there's part of this since it's already like gone to court like it's already you know it's progressed to the point where you're going to have to pay something. I do think there's a smart part that would hold on to that money and not put it on the other $11,000 debt

because you know this is coming and you know you're going to be on the hook for paying whether it's the full sum or you

know a reduced amount.

Okay.

So yes and then I guess just go ahead.

Well I was going to say yes. So um and anything obviously you get in that lawsuit have in have in writing and I and I would tell them hey I have $24,000.

Well, I guess they're separate lawsuits you were saying. Um, correct. Okay.

Yeah. So, I think getting them down as much as possible obviously would be the goal. Um, and ideally not going into collections and all of that that you kind of just take care of it. Absolutely. And if that's the case, then yeah, you have 4,000. When does the other lawsuit hit? This one's September.

Do you know when the other one will be? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, they've already kind of hit this is obviously aggressive.

So, now it's like going to the trial thing and all this other stuff where I'm going to have to pay Chase. It's already been on my credit. So, like all that stuff's already kind of happened. How long is this?

Oh, sorry. Was it all under your name or is your ex or I guess she's not your ex-wife. Is your wife's name attached to this as well? No, they were all mine.

They were cards that I had prior to our marriage and we've always done good and then we spent a bunch of money and then we tried to get out of debt and then we were doing okay and then COVID hit. We both literally lost our jobs within a week and it was pay mortgage and feed our children or pay this credit card. Well, we chose a home and children. Mhm.

How much are you making a year, John?

Um, I bring in my base salaries 104 and my bonuses um are in the $60 to $80,000 range annually. Okay. And with her, what

does what does she make?

It varies. We own a small business, a food truck business. So, she brings in roughly I would say seven uh

60,000 a year. Okay. And considering you guys are somewhat separated, I don't know if it's, you know, through legal means or not. Have have you guys separated your finances?

Yes, we did that about two or three months prior and that was kind of her like final straw for us, but Okay. her spending was really the issue for me.

So, okay. So, these three accounts, are these the only debts that you're on the hook for? Is there a car? Is there anything else? Because there there is a Cadillac um that we that we purchase together. Um that's her car, not my car.

So, in the divorce, she would get the car. Okay. Kind of the thing. She would get the car pay. I have a truck. It's paid for other than if we were divorced today, the only debt I would have would be the two Chase and the $11,000 credit

card. Okay. And but and but you're making, you know, on a good year 180

plus a year. Yeah. Correct. So I mean,

when I look at these debts and knowing that one of them's going to be settled, you should have this knocked out like lickety split. What's this? What's your living situation?

Uh currently living is she moved out uh Thursday. So literally just two days ago, she moved out. She's living with a friend and her two kids. And I'm living in my house with my two kids. And what

second marriage then for both of you?

Yeah. Yes. Okay. And are you able to cover the mortgage in a way that it's no more than 25% of your takehome without her income added to it? Mortgage is $3,000 a month. So that's not a problem.

Okay, that's great. Yep. So, um, yeah. So, to answer your question of why you called in, for sure it would.

Yeah, I would take the one that had the lawsuit attached to it. Go ahead and knock that out. And then like Jade's saying, I mean, I would cut back on on everything until you get this mess cleaned up. And then I think you do have this kind of fresh start.

But I also I'm I'm cheering on for you guys, you know, that that possibly I heard a little bit of hope there at the beginning of the call. Yeah. Um that you guys can Yeah. I think you do do some work, do some counseling, therapy, and I and I pray that it is reconciled.

I think that's always the best hope for for this. We never want to see, you know, marriages torn apart. And he said part of it was because of her spending. But we do see money issues play into that.

Um, but always you guys remember that those money issues usually is an indicator of something else going on underneath. And that's why having you know professionals on your side to to really dig in to know why.

whether it's medicate or whatever it may be our habits come out sideways. Um, and

when you can get to the root of that of who you are as a person that's really a beautiful thing. So, John, we're we're cheering you guys on. I really do hope that there's reconciliation. Um, but just from the the money standpoint on your side, um, I think you can have a lot of this cleaned up really quickly.

So, I'm thankful you got got back on your feet job-wise since CO because I know that was a a pain point for a lot of people. Absolutely.

difficult, but I think it just drives home the point even more like I've heard Dave say it, marriages need maintenance.

Like, you need that regular the same way you bring your car in for a checkup, you go to the doctor for a physical every year. Like you need a regular rhythm of

let's go see a counselor, like let's just make sure everything's good and let's make sure you know premarital counseling. All those things that are checks and balances to make sure that you're operating at an optimal Yep. safe

level, right, in your marriage. Yep. And we have Dr. John Deloney here on our team, you guys. So check out his content and books because it's kind of in this whole realm of life. This is the Ramsay Show. [Music]

[Music]

Hey. Hey. Hey.

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Up next, we have Kashim in Portland, Oregon. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Thank you for so much for taking the call. Yes, absolutely. How

can we help? Very appreciate it. So, I've been watching Dave Ramsey for the longest time and I love the show and everything that Dave does and you as well. Thank you. My question is um

um I we make good money, my brother and I. We run an assisted living um and we

um have paid off all our consumer debt, no car loans, no student loans. We have

invested into real estate and we have about six uh properties. Um, but for

some reason, you know, it still feels like we're uh paycheck to paycheck

because everything that we make, we uh

invested back into uh real estate. And

then I was wondering, should we maybe stop investing and start paying off like we did with our consumer debt, the cars and student loans, pay off these properties, and then once all of all all

of those properties are paid off, then maybe start investing again with the cash that we would have. Okay. Um, how

much are you guys making a year income wise for you?

Together we make probably about uh

400,000. Okay. So, do you take 200 and

he takes 200?

Yes. Okay. And how much debt is on the six properties total?

It's about uh two 2.5 million. Okay.

Um and oh, also um yeah, sorry, one more thing. U we have 401k and I know um also

we've been investing in 401k for the past two years. So we're thinking maybe

we need to stop that. We do the Mac we max it out for the past two years for both of us. What's your full-time job?

So we're running um that assisted living. It's our own business. Yes.

Okay. That's right you said that. Okay.

So just to clarify all of it together, the income from the assisted living, the income from the properties is the 400,000, right? Not just the properties.

Correct. Okay. So could you I mean I I'm

thinking you know to relieve some of the pressure because you said you feel like you're still living paycheck to paycheck uh and you know making 200 grand. If you're Yeah. If you're making mortgage payments, do you have renters and all the six?

We do. Yeah. the the properties are all cash flowing. Um um but the I mean u

whatever we make in in in the business save it up and then we just go and buy another property. Yeah. So I would I would Yep. So I would pause maybe even

go a step or two backwards possibly just to give you some breathing room. So instead of going and continuing to invest in these properties and taking leverage out on all of them, that's what's causing you to feel so tied down or right like with no margin. So I would

take some of the that income, throw it at some of these properties to pay it off faster and I would cash flow it. So that may even mean uh Kushim to to you

know list out the six and say hey maybe we sell two you know the the equity from the two could help pay for you know pay down some of the the other three and our cash flow because you know we don't mind having real estate. I think it's a great opportunity, but when you are leveraged

in it and you continue to leveraging in it, it's going to eventually eat up your income, right? Because it's not going to be perfect. But having that paid for income, when the income comes in from the rentals and it's all yours, then suddenly you feel like, oh, we're making the money that I feel like we should be making, right? I mean, you have $2.5 million worth of rental properties, you should feel like we're doing really good, but it's it's not it's not working out that way. No. Yeah. It seems like,

you know, on the paper we have a lot, but then, you know, kind of cash broke.

Yep. So, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So, I would I would free up um I would be okay with you keeping a couple of them, you

know, knowing that, hey, we're going to we're going to snowball this and pay them off quickly because did you guys get them a few years ago or have you gotten them recently?

A few years ago. We started back in like 2022 and then the last one we just purchased this year. Yep. So, I would I would stop purchasing and again, yeah, I I would I would sell a couple of them, but I would list them out and say, "Hey, here's what they're worth. Here's what we owe on them. What's smart to do this?" I know you're doing this all with your brother.

Yes. Okay. Are both of your names on the on the notes?

We Yes. Okay. So, would that be something that he's willing to do as well?

Yes, actually he's sitting here listening to um we um yeah, we started

together. We're doing things u you know together and actually he's the one that got on the phone and uh calling to the show actually. Okay.

Okay. Well, we have a little bit of time. Uh Kashim, I would be interested.

Do you do you have the numbers off the top of your head of what each property is worth and how much you owe on them?

Yes, I can look it up.

here in a second. Um, and also

what I can say regarding the 401k, should we keep investing into that 401k?

Yes, I would. You know, as you said, pause it. Yeah. No, I would. Yeah, I would keep going.

Okay. Because that's going to be that's going to be a consistent. Yep.

Did you say you wanted the Yeah, let's go through them. Let's go through them one by one.

Okay. So, first one is a condo. We owe

150. Um, and then another one is a

house. Uh, what's the the one that's before you go? The one that's 150. What could you sell it for?

Um, probably like 250, 260. Okay,

perfect. Keep going. And then another

one is we owe 230. That one is about 410

420 right now. Okay. Okay. And then we

have a candle. Uh we owe 450 and that

one is about 600. Okay. Okay. And then

we have another condo or a duplex.

Duplex u we owe 340 and that one is like

five. Okay. And then we have our primary

houses but not selling those. Okay. That

was the two part two. Now on the primary mortgages, you you are the only person on your mortgage and he's the only person on his mortgage, right? Correct.

Okay. So, I mean, Rachel, I I know what I'm thinking right off the bat. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm probably, you know, and again, you can rearrange some of these.

I would take the ones that are probably in better condition, less hassle, ones that are in better part of the city that you can rent out that's more stable. But you could sell two of these, you know, rearrange some of the numbers because you and have two paid for properties um there. And I would and I I know you and your brother are doing this together, but my advice, you probably won't take it, Kashim, is is to do it, you know, individually.

But that's just my two cents. But well, there's part of that cuz here's the thing. If you were in this deal alone, my first thing would be like, hey, okay, for instance, property number three, it's a duplex. I don't know what side of town it's in, but I'm thinking, okay, it's more work to rent it out. It's two places. Um, and you owe the most on it,

and the gain is pretty decent. So, I'm like, okay, I'd probably go for that one first, just based on little knowledge here. But I'd want to then take that money and pay off my personal residence before I reach over and do properties.

But since you're in this with your brother, it doesn't necessarily work that way. So that's kind of just one of the ways that it muddies the water a little bit on this. But that being said, you could still reach over. You could pay off the one property number two probably if you made that sale and then property number four if you sold it and you cleared out property number one.

There's a lot of options here. There's a lot of options. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think you could make one or two moves here. And I think what that would do again is if you have two paid for properties, you're getting rental income, and then you and your wife say, "Hey, our next goal is to pay off our primary home." Because how much do you owe on your primary?

Um, about 340. Okay. And uh, it's worth

about 730 740. We bought it back in

2017. Okay, that's great. Yeah. So, yeah, you can go down the steps there.

Or if you want to go real crazy, which I don't think you'll probably will, you could sell everything and put some of this towards towards your primary. But but again, I think you and your brother can sit down and just say, "Hey, what what are the, you know, the properties that we're confident in?" And I think you can keep, you know, maybe two of them, sell two, rearrange some of this, and I think it's going to relieve it because you guys are kind of playing the game. And cuz you guys are smart. So honestly, at the end of the day, once you have all this kind of cleaned up and and you guys are making a better income, then take your time and save cuz some of these, you know, you bought for 150, there's still deals out there.

I mean, you can still go and and and you know, buy something crappy and fix it up, put some money into it, and rent it. So, that's still a possibility, but just doing it with cash is going to give you less stress, which is what we want for you.

Heat.

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Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're going to the phones and we have Jake in Houston calling next. Hey Jake, welcome to the show. Hi. How are you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help?

So, um I have a chronic condition and

I'm currently on baby step six. Um but I

do not have any life insurance for my wife and family and I'm having trouble getting life insurance and so I'm wondering if I should be putting money aside uh since I don't have the life insurance option. It's really kind of Yeah. What's

what's the condition? Can I ask? I'd really rather not. My doctor says I have about 10 more years of working time before I be really really in a critical position. Oh, I'm so so sorry.

That's right.

He either healed in this life or the next. So, yeah. That's right. Well, you've put yourself in a really good position with your family. So, kudos to you there. And I know they're going to be very grateful. The fact that you're in baby step six is amazing. So, that tells me that you don't have debt. You guys have got a significant level of savings, which is nice. And I'm guessing you've been investing all this time. Can I ask like do you have a nest egg? We do. We have a $1.4 million nest egg.

Okay. Wow.

We um I make about 180,000

um base pay and then about 150,000 bonuses. Wow. Um, so

great income, but um, all of our money

is in retirement accounts. So, Mhm. And

how old are you and your wife? I'm 39

and my wife is 42. Okay. Do you guys have kids? I have one child. Yes. Okay.

Um, what is is she working or is she staying home? She stays at home. Okay.

Uh, how much do you guys have left on the house to pay off?

340,000.

340. Okay. And what's your timeline on paying off the house when you've talked to with your wife? When do you think it'll be done? About 3 years if we put

all of our excess income towards the house. Okay. And about seven years where

I've got to be totally ready for medical and retirement, everything, you know.

You said you've got seven years until you feel like you need to be totally ready. Is that what you said? Yep. 10 years total. If I if it takes you three years to pay off the house now, then seven years after that to save for everything else. Okay. Will you be able to bring in I know you said well you'll have to stop working probably two years.

Um does that mean physically going to a location or will you still be bringing in income at that point or probably not?

Um stopping working 10 years. I'm sorry.

Oh, 10 years. I thought you said two. So 10 years. Okay. That's way I'm I'm happy to hear that. Okay. Um, so the good news

is, you know, you the first problem was, hey, I don't have life insurance. But the good news is you're going to be self-insurable.

You you've set you and your your wife have set your family up in a really really great way. Um, cuz the thought

here is, and I'm not even running any numbers. I just know that a lump sum is going to double every seven years. And the point that you already have 1.4 4 million and then there's this 10-year horizon and you know you're making over

$300,000 a year and the the house is

going to pay it off. You're not going to have a payment in the world. And so I think that your wife is going to be okay. Um what I would do is I'd probably

sit down with a Smart Invest Pro uh because I want to make sure to your point that she's able to access the money she needs even if it's before her being 59 and a half. Correct. Yeah. cuz

I'm thinking if you know um 10 years

from now she will be yeah 52. So

there'll be about that 7-year gap. But I do wonder um Jake because you guys are

making such great money. Do you foresee yourself making around that 300 330,000

a year for the next 10 years if not going up or do you see it going down at all because of health issues? Um it'll it'll continue to go up. So luckily I am an engineer so I can work remotely or I

have all the option to do. Yeah. So if you think about it Jake if you guys pay off this home in three years which is what I would do you would have seven years left of working of making that amount of money you guys could stash away so much just in a high yield savings account you know that she could um that you guys can live off of after you stop working for that time that sevenish years um between retirement

age. And then once you guys hit that age, you'll be able to access. Yeah. I mean, like you said, it's going to be over three, four, it'll be $4 million by that point. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And a Smart Investor Pro is going to help you figure out like that best bridge. Is it a high yield savings? Is it a brokerage account? Is it another vehicle that you're able to get to that money, but it can also still have some some gain on it. Um a decent amount of gain. Uh yeah.

Hey, I hate that this situation is what

it is, but you're a great dad and a great husband for setting this up with your family.

Thank you.

Truly. Yeah. Wow. Jake, thank you for calling. If you stay on the line, Christian is going to pick up and maybe we can um hook you up. Yeah. With a Smart Ver Pro um and we'll help you show you like exactly where to look, get a couple of names so you can call them and kind of just see who you're comfortable with. Um, but I'm with Jade. I'm praying nothing. I I pray for healing on the side of heaven for you and your family and um I'm so sorry. And you know, it's

one of those things that when life there are things we just we can't control. You know, health is for sure one of those.

And and on this show, we get we get that call a lot of just um you know, things happen. And one of the best ways it doesn't make it better um but it does bring a level of peace in an area of life is when you have your money under control. Mh. And so that's um and when you've set your family up that worst case scenario, yes, I know everything's covered.

And I mean, these are the reasons that we teach.

That's right. That's right. Nope. You know, no one predicts it. Yeah. Oh, Jake, we're praying for you and your family. Thanks. I'm so glad you called.

I hope that helped. Up next, we have Ken in Witchah. Hey, Ken. Welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel. Uh, appreciate all that, uh, you, your dad, and the, uh, Ramsay, uh, personalities do. You guys are a true blessing.

Had a question today. Uh, hoping you could pressure test, uh, something regarding my pension. So, my my wife and I are FPU grads, uh, debtree, including the house. Um, I was laid off uh, about

3 weeks ago. I'm 55. And since um I'll

I'll be separating from the company, uh I can start taking the pension now. Um

and if I do that and I plug those numbers into Excel, it seems to me like I'd be crazy to not start taking it at 55 versus waiting till 62, even though the numbers are higher because uh my calculations show it be 19 years

uh for it to catch up if I wait till 62 versus taking it now. um and investing it at 8% like I would assume Dave would say. Yeah. Uh it never catches up. So, am I crazy to start taking it at 55 versus waiting till 62?

No, I don't think you're I don't think you're crazy. And especially if you do something with that money that helps both, you know what I mean? To to grow it, right? So, even if you put it somewhere that you're going to be making more than if it sits in that pension, I think that's ideal. Um, so how are you?

Um, do you guys need it to live off of or you're just thinking because of the math, might as well take it now because we'll be able to to get more out of it.

Yeah, totally a math situation.

Obviously, I've I've I've got to go find another job, but we're uh in good shape on that. I'm employable and and and we'll do that. Um, but just talking to some peers that are in the same situation from this layoff, um, they

were like, "Hey, why would you take it now?" But I'm I'm just I'm an Excel guy.

So I plugged it in there and then use the investment calculator at 8% and I'm just like, man, because you're thinking you're going to turn around and and reinvest that money. Is that what you're thinking? True. True. That's that's the plan. But even if you don't um just the raw numbers the seven years uh in order

to make up that seven years of withdrawals it would take 19 years and put me at like 81 before uh it would

catch up if I started taking at 62. So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Um, I know the taxes

might be a little bit different when I'm retired, that type of thing, but um, it just seems like take it now is is

mathematically the way to go. And I've always heard Dave say, you know, it the pension, you know, it's not yours until it's yours.

So, in the hopper type thing. That's right. Yeah. The good thing about it is it puts you back in control of what you do with it, even if you're going to go back and and reinvest it.

And and the truth is too, Ken, you've done such a great job that I mean, you're you guys are completely debtree. Like, if you take it now or you take it six years, you're going to be okay. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think you're going to make this dire mistake.

But anytime you can get money, even in a lump sum, in some situations, putting it back in your control, you're usually better off than leaving it somewhere else. So, I hope that helps.

Our [Music]

[Music]

scripture today comes from 1 Timothy 6:18.

Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. Shondaanda Rime says, "Be a doer, not a dreamer." Good deal. I

appreciate that. Put some stuff into action, people. Put some stuff into action. I know. That's right. All right.

Going to the phones. We have Sarah in Fort Meyers. Hey, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Hi, ladies. Thanks so much for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Um, so I'm looking for a bit of direction. Um, the long story short is I

just found the Ramsay Show uh the podcast a couple months ago uh when I was pregnant uh with our first child.

Yay. Yeah, congratulations.

Yeah, thank you. Uh he's two months old now and he's absolutely beautiful. Um my

question is um when I was six months

pregnant um my husband was laid off from his job uh which was extremely stressful. Um we had a lot of medical complications with my pregnancy and then with the delivery as well. Um and when

he was laid off we ended up having to pay an arm and a leg to extend our insurance policy through the former employer. So, we unfortunately had to burn through what little savings we had um to afford that. And now we're pretty much starting from scratch with a newborn. And um my husband is um really

wanting to try to pay off our credit cards and get our debt down. And I'm

trying to decide if we should try to put more money towards our emergency fund, which we don't have now. Um I'm going

back to work kind of part-time. So, I'm trying to decide if I need to go back full-time. Should we sell one of our cars? I don't know. I'm looking You've got a lot on your mind. Stories online.

You've got a lot on your mind. I mean, the good news is you did what we tell people to do when you were pregnant. You stacked up because you don't know what's going to happen. And so, you went into stor mode and you needed what you saved up. And so, no guilt on that. You don't need to be feeling bad. Um, sometimes people go through their emergency fund and they feel guilty that they used it.

And I'm like, no, that's what it was there for. And so, you did right, but

now that the storm is over and the baby

is here, now you can get back onto the baby steps. And yeah, it's getting that $1,000 back saved again. And, you know, to your husband's point, whatever the smallest debt is, if it's the credit cards, how much debt do you guys have?

Uh, well, we have two car loans. Um altogether our debt is probably between

35 and 40 between the two cars and then some credit card and then of course the medical. So um tell me the real numbers so we can really see.

Yeah. So on his car uh we owe about uh

14,000.

My car we owe about 21 I believe. His

car just Yeah. 21,000. Um we just

started having some mechanical issues with his car. So we were considering selling that because it is worth right about what we owe on it. So we thought about going down to one car. Yeah. Um which we could do. It would be a challenge, but we could do it. I love that. With the baby, it's a little tricky, but um we could try to find a way. The hard part is my husband's job.

He's he's really not loving it. He's exhausted emotionally from the pregnancy and all the medical stuff that I went through. He sorry he was really scared. It was a lot to handle and now um he's considering

changing careers because he just he's he

he absolutely hates the field that he's in. So we're on this a little bit instability storm right now. I would

press cash is really hard. I would press pause for a second because you guys have just come through a a unknown difficult season, right? It was the layoff, then the baby came, then there was no insurance. So, there's part of this where I would love to create just a a quick sense of like we're getting our bearings. We've got our bearings before we add another big change into the mix cuz that would have mean he just got this new job, right? Yeah. He's he's

we've only just been on the insurance this month for the new place. Yeah. He's only been there. He had to wait like 90 days or something. And don't get me wrong, like I'm all for happy I'm all for people being happy in their work, but we need to just cool out for a second. Like, let's get this baby home.

Let's get our heads around what the financial picture is, and then that can decide what we need to do going forward because, and I mean, I I I get it.

Everybody wants to be happy at work, but there could be a period of time where he's like, I'm doing this because I need to do this to get the family on good footing and then I'll be able to go and and pursue more of what I want to do. So the 14,000 car, 21,000 car Well, I was

going to just add to that, Sarah, that usually when there's some level of like a traumatic experience, which it kind of sounds like y'all walk through, don't make knee-jerk reactions. And we say this if someone's had a death close to them or um you know if something big

happens in life that really kind of takes you out emotionally. Making big moves in life is not smart. So waiting

before he quits and all of this like I I would so I echo Jade for sure. And for you guys Yeah. That um because how much is he making now?

Uh he makes about 85 but he's I I'm not

so much concerned about him quitting.

He's He is totally in the mindset of I need to provide for my family. I'll do what I have to do. Yeah. Plus, he wouldn't quit until he had something else lined up. Right. Exactly. But he's

afraid that they're going to let him go again. And I think he's got a little bit of PTSD from being laid off previously, which wasn't any fault of his, but the

the the company that he's at now, like the new job that was supposed to kind of stabilize, it's it's not really a good fit the way the business is set up. So, I'm sorry. What type of work does he do?

Uh he works in accounting and financial analyst positions u mostly for home builders and construction firms. So being the numbers guy, he's tracking all the mistakes. He finds a lot of things that are wrong and everybody thinks he's the bad guy and it's just kind of the way that the industry goes, I think.

Okay. Well, even more reason then for you guys to really get laser focused on this debt because that's what's creating instability and a lot of risk in your life. So, um, aside from the cars, which I love the idea if you can break even on one of these, even if, uh, you go and you buy something a lot cheaper in cash, I like that idea if if having a one car family doesn't work.

So, I would say, okay, let's push pause on the baby steps, get that thousand there. Um, do you have any more money left in savings above a thousand?

Uh, not really. Okay, that's fine. I think he has Yeah, he he has a Roth I think he

set up a few years ago that's got a little bit in it, but No, don't touch that. I meant liquid savings. Okay. No.

So, yeah, you're listing them smallest to largest, and you guys are getting on the same page. you're sitting down tonight and going, "Okay, we've been through a lot. It's time for us to make this right. We've got a family now.

Let's clean up our mess and let's decide that moving forward, we're going to move methodically. We're going to make decisions together. We're going to get out of debt." And I mean, kudos to you.

Cheers on a brand new life. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's it's a mixture. We're

absolutely in love with our baby boy.

He's healthy. Praise God. It was a really stressful time getting through all those issues. So, we're thankful, but we're also trying to find a way to

start looking up, you know, it just seems like one thing after another and then the car breaks, you know, and then the, you know, the boss doesn't like it or, you know, whatever. It just seems one thing after another. So, I'm just kind of looking for some peace of mind for a few weeks at least. For sure. So,

yeah. And you'll find too, Sarah, you know, life in general and then you throw kids in the mix and this is it magnifies this too. But it it's if it does it can feel like seasons of life, it's like two steps forward, three steps back, one step forward, two steps back. Oh my gosh. And then and then a rhythm another

season hits and it's like, wow, this is a peaceful season and we're thankful for this and then something else happens, right? I mean, it's just it is the rhythm of life and you guys are experiencing that uh but in big ways. I mean, kids, job, I mean, these are big adult things, right? that you that you feel.

So, I think um getting some control around the money I think is going to give you a level of peace even if the debt is still there. Just being on the same page with your husband, knowing here's how much we're spending on groceries. Here's what like there's just a plan in place and it allows you to pour that energy into something. Yes, that's right.

Into something else.

For sure. And I do and I and we hear you loud and clear. And I think a goal would eventually be for him to be in a great environment working. Yeah. You don't want to work for a jerk, you know, for so long. So, right, we're all about that, too. Yeah. So, great. Well, thanks for the call, Sarah. We really appreciate it. Thanks to all the gentlemen in the booth. Thank you, Jade, for being great co-host. And thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

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## 44. Don’t Let Money Chaos Run Your Life | February 16, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:45:01 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ramsay personality Jade Warshaw. and [music] we're taking your calls at88255225.

Arley is going to kick [music] us off in New York City. What's going on, Arley?

>> Hello. >> Did I get that right? Is it Arley?

>> Yes, it is.

>> What's happening? >> Um, so, um, when I was around like 20 to

21 years old, I had a pretty good credit score of like 800. And then my mom kind

of guilt tripped me into being a co-signer for one of her cars. And um

then the following year uh there was a

second car that I was unknowingly signed

into when we refinanced the first car.

And I think about 2 years after that,

I've um both cars have been repossessed.

>> Oh. >> And the first car was um there's a

judgment on that car and it's under my name. >> Oh boy. >> And I guess and there's a also a

personal loan that my mom kind of made me take out around the same time.

>> What do you mean made you? Yeah. What's that? Are you against your will? like, >> "Well, she guilt tripped me into doing all of that." >> Yeah, but you're you're a grown person at 21 years old.

>> Yes, of course. I like I understand that. But I guess like culturally speaking, it was always >> you can't um >> like I've done so much for you. I need you to do this for me. And you just went, "Okay, fine." >> Exactly. >> Exactly. And it was like non-stop. So

essentially after all of this, we're like 20k in

debt just on my mom alone. And I guess

I'm trying to like figure out how to move on from one getting these two cars

off of my name and like you know paying

I guess paying it out. >> Yeah. Um because I just recently got

married and me and my husband haven't been able to join our account >> because of this major issue. So

>> absolutely kind of like >> want to find a way >> I'm 26. Okay.

>> Oh, okay. So this has been a while back.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But I think the repo just happened like about uh two years. And >> what are they coming after you for for that for for both repos? Tell us the amount for both. >> So the first car um well the major car

was uh 10 10,000.

>> Okay. >> That's the deficit that you owe.

>> Yes. Okay. >> After it got auctioned off. >> What about the second one?

>> The second one is 8,000.

>> Okay. So the good news is you're going to settle both of these. You're not going to pay the full amount because it's been forever. They'll be happy to get anything from you at this point.

>> Okay. >> So, do you have any contact with your mom anymore?

[clears throat] >> Um, we do, but unfortunately, um, I

don't really trust anything she says.

>> Rightfully so. >> For the so for the sole reason that

January of last year of 2025, she

actually like moved to another state.

And we came to find out that she kind of owed a lot of people a lot of money and it came to around like a total of like 50 close to 100k in just like personal

loans like under the table. And this

year I kind of talked to her or last end of last year I talked to her to try to settle the personal loans pay.

>> Let's talk about let's talk about you go. Let's imagine that she's not going to help you solve any of this and your name's on the debt and so they don't care about where she is and if she's going to refi into her name. You just need to act like this is debt I took on and I got to clean the mess up. >> Mhm. And it's a learning experience. So I'd be looking to set settle these for, you know, 50 40 to 50% of the the actual

amount owed. That's what I'd start with.

And so that would be your goal to save up that cash cuz anytime you're going to settle a debt, you've got to have the cash in hand ready. Lump sum. Yep. And you want to get it all all those stipulations in writing and you you really want to laminate it and keep it forever because you never want these things to come back and bite you in the butt. How much is the personal loan? Is that another 2 or 3,000?

>> Yeah, 2,000. >> Okay. So 2,000 on the personal loan. How much do you and your husband earn every month? >> Um we every month would be about

67,000.

>> Okay. And is he on board uh in the idea

that we're gonna clean up this mess >> or do you feel like it's kind of on you to do it on your own?

>> I I think personally I don't want him to

take on the burden.

>> H can I tell you this personally? I don't think you're going to be able to clean this mess up on your own.

>> No, I know. But I think he does listen to the Ramsay show, so I do know that he he'll be willing to >> settle this with me. If the tables were turned, you would you be willing to help him? >> Of course. >> Okay, there you go. So, as long as you know that you're not asking more of someone than you would want asked of yourself, then I think it's okay that you participate that you receive that if

he's willing to do this with you, which I think he should, by the way. >> The hardest part is going to be swallowing your pride and and going, you know what? I know I feel guilty and shame about this, but I'm going to bring him in cuz this is marriage.

>> Yeah. No, she actually helped me because

um when we first got married, we settled I think about 2,000 of credit card loans that my mom also racked up. So >> Oh man. >> Okay. Has any of this been done fraudulently?

>> Because she's not able to just like forge your signature. It sounds like you were there. You at least signed some documents on most of these loans.

>> So the like I said the first car was her car that she was driving and I was helping her. >> You co-signed. So, that one's legit.

>> I did the second car. I didn't cosign.

That one I did cosign.

>> I did cosign, but what happened was when

I went to the dealer, they told me it was a refinance. When it came out, like

I think 6 months down the line where we

were getting like these late payments, they were telling me, "Oh, it's the car that I took out from my cousin and you are co-signed." And I was like, I was never informed of this. But by then they told me it was too late to to back out of it. >> Okay. Do you guys have any other debt outside of this 20k?

>> No. Uh student loan debt.

>> How much? How much? >> I I have about 16k and my husband has

about uh 9K.

>> Okay. Promise me, make me a promise that you have learned your lesson.

>> Not just not just in cosigning but really in borrowing money in general.

Look how much heartache and pain this has caused. This is literally, and don't get me wrong, this is >> uh if I were to assign blame, which I'm not usually in the habit of doing, but most of this is on your mother, okay?

Cuz she she was there there is an im

imbalance of power there when you're 18, 21 years old and a and a parent is saying you need to do this, you need to do that. You do feel the overwhelming need that either they're right or that you should be listening to them even if you shouldn't be. So, I hate that that happened, but this is such a learning opportunity for you. No more debt, no more cosigning. you pay this off. Never again is really the line in the sand that you need to draw.

>> Have you frozen your credit with all three bureaus, Arley?

>> Uh, no I haven't. I >> You need to do that yesterday. And while you're at it, pull all all three credit reports from the bureaus. You can go to annualcreditreport.com.

Do it for free. Never pay for this. You need a full picture cuz who knows what else is out there before we can move forward and do this debt snowball and settle these debts. Let's get a real full picture of what's going on and freeze your credit so nobody, you or your mom, can be opening up debt in your name ever again.

That's right. Wishing you the best.

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[music]

Barbara's in New York City. Up next, Barbara, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today? >> So, my question is, how can I convince my husband to comi com combine our finances?

>> How long you been married? >> We um we're coming up on 12 years.

>> That's a long time to now start this conversation. >> How long have you been >> How long have you been trying to do this? >> So, several years now. So when we got

married, um I I made significantly less

and he actually purchased the house a few months before he proposed.

So it's and I really feel like it's his house. So that's the other part of the conversation trying to convince him to put my name on the deed and all and the mortgage. Um so I feel like we're and I bring it up every so often and say, "Hey, you know, maybe we should be doing this." I I mean I worked hard to better

myself. So I when we got married I made

about 35,000 which isn't very much. And

then >> why does it matter if you made a dollar or $100,000? >> I I I'm I'm shook by that. I feel like this is like you're trying to prove that you're worthy of being next to his name

by you getting yourself together.

>> Did you set a benchmark like hey once you hit 50 grand then we'll talk.

I [clears throat] kind of feel like we have to be equals in terms of how we how

much we earn because he >> right I don't wait it's that's the footing we got off on he divided up the bills based on the percentage of what we make so based on how much I made I covered the bills according to that >> okay >> and so on and you know slowly I've increased what I contribute you know

household repairs and all that stuff >> right right So, this is really, really, really unhealthy. I'm sorry, but it it is. And I I think you're right. You guys got off you got off on the wrong foot and it just set the tone for the next 12 years. And it started to you started to

believe that that you >> you are your percentage and you're worth whatever percentage you're contributing and vice versa.

>> And that is going to take a lot of time to tear down. Honestly, it sounds like kind of in both of you cuz I think you're starting to see, "Yeah, I need to we probably should do this." But it's also like you're fighting that old mentality. So, when you bring it to him and you say, "This is I feel like this

is destroying our marriage and here's how and it's making me feel less than and I'm just scared that this is going to drive us further and further apart." >> What's his response?

>> It gets defensive.

So, >> and are you saying it's on him or are you saying we both did this thing?

>> I'm, you know, thinking back, I'm

probably putting a little too much on him, like, hey, we cuz because it feels like everything belongs to him. The house belongs to him, you know, >> but you also participated in that. So, I think >> approaching it, you know, approaching it in the way of we set out, and this is honestly probably exactly along the lines of what I would say if I were in your shoes. >> 12 years ago, we got married.

We decided that this is how we were going to do finances and I agreed to that.

years. And in the past couple of years, I've really started seeing that um it's

not it feels like it's driving us apart.

And you may not be aware of it on your end, but it's something I'm sensing. And I just feel like it's if we don't address it, it's going to get worse and worse. And I would love for us to talk

about ways that we can change the way we're viewing money to where there's complete transparency. We're both equal and we're both, you know, a part of it.

And maybe that will open him up to go, okay, she's she's trying to she's trying to come towards me. She's not trying to say this at me and tell me that it's my fault, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. I think Yeah, probably without meaning to making it sound like it's all on him. So, >> yeah, >> that can go a long way. Listen, even if it was on all on him, it's a long way.

>> There's things that he is not telling you. >> And I don't know if this is coming out of, you know, baggage he had growing up with money, why he wants control, why he wants to protect himself. Did he have a previous marriage? What do you think is behind this? >> No. Well, um I honestly don't know entirely.

I know his parents went through a bad marriage. Um and

I I don't know if that's part of it, but it does feel like he's very guarded with his money and he wants to protect it and he's, you know, he's got businesses and

he buys cars whenever he and all of a sudden he wants and it's kind I don't have a say in it because it's his money and he you know >> Yeah. You have a you have a roommate that you signed a contract with essentially.

>> And I'm sorry that's not fun. It's not healthy. And I don't know if I I'm not here to define someone as a narcissist, but it's giving narcissist. It's giving emotional abuse. And he's making you feel less than. You own nothing. And you should be lucky you get to live in my house. >> That's not good. Do you have kids?

>> No, we don't. We I became nervous early

on and decided not to and he went right along with it. So, we agreed together.

Well, I guess we didn't agree. It was more like I was apprehensive and he was like, "Whatever you want." >> Okay. Okay. So, no children to speak of.

Yeah. This is >> my guess is he would he would never agree to go to counseling with you, would he? >> No. No. I've asked

um >> Can you go on your own or would you have to ask him for permission for allowance money to go?

>> No. Uh I've been going I go on my own

and um >> Good. >> I hadn't brought this situation up though. >> Why not? >> I talk about everything else around >> this would be the number one situation I would bring up.

>> Right. >> This is the main thing in your life right now. And you're calling us for for advice on this. I don't know how to convince your husband because I don't know that he can be convinced at this point because he has convinced himself that he is the king of the house and you should be lucky to live in his castle.

>> And honestly, there seems like there's no bent there there hasn't been any um

consequence for his action for lack of a better word. It's kind of like he gets to do whatever he wants and there's no nothing comes back on him as a reason to change.

>> Nope. Um [clears throat] I guess I felt like it was just a money issue.

>> No, it's not. It's a respect respect issue. He's not seeing you as a a person, a full person who's contributing and valuable and all the things that he should see you as.

>> Think about it. This marriage, any relationship is built on two things, trust and respect, >> right? >> And you don't have either of those from him. And I don't know that you ever did.

I don't know how this marriage started and how we got here, but you need to reset conversation with him and use eye

statements and make it about you and say, "Listen, I want better for us. I want unity in this marriage. I didn't sign up to be a roommate here. I want transparency, not because I don't trust you, but because I think I deserve a vote, >> and for too long, I felt like I didn't."

What would he say to that? Would he get defensive and shut down?

>> Yes. Yes. I think that's very telling, Barbara, of what your next step should be. >> How are you doing? Like, let's talk

about it the way you guys talk about it, which is your finances are separate. How are you doing financially?

>> Um, I'm doing much better. Um, I've, you

know, worked hard to increase my own income and I have, you know, money set aside and I, you know, I listen to you guys and I set up my savings and, you know, six months and all that and I invest in my 401k and all that. Um but

um just talking about that like just thinking about it and like just listening to you guys I do kind of just feel like a house sitter. >> Yeah. >> You know I >> rightfully so. I mean for all intents and purposes that's kind of the placement you guys have put you in.

>> Yeah. >> And it's totally fine that you are saying >> this is not okay >> and I'm not going to do this anymore.

And if I were in your shoes, you know, I'm no counselor, that's for sure. But if I were in your shoes, I'd be making some pretty strong statements about what I am and not going to do and what I am and not going to put up with.

>> Right? >> You know what I'm saying? Like I I >> I'm not sure he's seen Barbara's backbone, and I think he's about to see it. >> For someone who's been offered counseling, for someone who's been offered the opportunity to sit down and talk for compromise, and they've turned away all of that. Now, I'm going to tell you what I'm about to do >> and what my terms are. [laughter] And that's THAT'S WHAT I WOULD DO. I'D BE LIKE, "OKAY, enough is enough." And here you're about to see the smoke.

>> And Barbara, great exercise for you is think about if this was your friend and she called you and said, "Hey, this is my situation." What would you honestly tell that friend? >> Maybe write down a journal tonight as if you were writing a letter to that friend and then read it back to yourself and go, "Oh, this is for me. These are the steps I need to go take because I deserve that. You deserve to live a life.

You don't deserve to be in a prison with this guy, right? And [music] so I don't know that we can change him, but I do know that you can make some changes for yourself. And that might be the healthiest move for what's next.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] If you have a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, check out Ramsey Smart Tax. It's affordable, it keeps filing simple, and it has built-in support in case you need a little help.

And filing early means getting the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to ramiesolutions.com/smartax and start filing. And guess what, Jade?

>> What's up? >> Guess what I'm doing on Valentine's Day. >> I don't want to know, George.

>> Getting my taxes done with my tax pro.

>> It's not what I expected. >> We're going on a date after. >> I'm mad at I'm mad at you for this.

>> All the restaurants are booked up, but my tax guy was free and I said, "All right, let's make it a date." >> I need to text Whitney. Give me her number. say she deserves better. [laughter] Don't worry, we're going to get get some chips and margaritas after. >> All right, there you go. >> All right, Lisa is in Hartford, Connecticut, up next. What's going on, Lisa? >> Hi. >> How can we help today?

>> I am um 58 years old. I have $60,000

worth of state tax debt. I have $60,000

worth of credit card debt. I'm a single mom with two college age kids. And I am trying to figure out if I should file for bankruptcy. I have another um $10,000 that I owe the IRS. I came to a

settlement with them. So um I guess it's about now $70,000 in total tax debt.

>> How did that happen?

>> Um well, I um I'm a single mom and when

I got divorced, I didn't make smart decisions with my alimony. Um I tried to keep my kids like in the same um you know, like I didn't I didn't make any changes. I wanted them I didn't want them to feel like the the divorce and so I lived way beyond my means. Um, I also, um, went into recovery, so I was, you know, kind of white knuckling raising them and I did a lot of spending out of like parental guilt trying to like make up for time that I'd lost.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Understood.

So, what what's the what's the case now? What are you doing for work? What are you earning? >> I have I have a great job.

Um, I make about $105,000 as an administrative assistant. Um, >> I have a side like I have I also work for the same um family at a farm on the weekends.

my, you know, I just just got the the

dollars app to figure out what's going wrong when I'm spending more than I can afford, you know, in rent and even the basic things. >> How much is your rent? >> Um, it's $3,500.

>> Oh, girlfriend. And are you bringing home like six or seven? What's the take-home pay? >> My takehome is 66 thou? Yeah. 6,600 and

then another um,000 approximately when I

do my other job. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, this is the

problem. Uh, the rent is Have you looked into things that I mean, you're in Hartford, that's an expensive area. Have you looked into >> other options? I mean, what are you living in right now?

What is the nature of your house? Is it a two-bedroom? What is >> right now? Yeah, I'm in a two-bedroom apartment.

And I moved out of like the town I raised my kids in and I moved into a less expensive area, but it's still very expensive. I'm I'm currently looking like I was trying to keep, you know, one my one of my kids has graduated, but one of my kids still comes home and I still have that need to like have a bedroom for you.

You got to stop. >> It's an air mattress in the living room. >> Yeah. You got to stop this mess because that that feeling of having to make everything all right for them is what got you in $130,000 of debt. So, you got

to stop today. They're grown. They love you. You don't have to prove it. It's it's it's inherent. Okay.

>> You being a burden because they have to cover mom's expenses for the rest of her life because she's broke is so much worse. >> Come on, George. >> Than them sleeping on an air mattress cuz mom can't afford $3,500 in rent, which is totally reasonable.

>> What's your commute right now? And how how how far can we get you out of town to get this in the >> right now? Is great. Like I'm I'm I'm 10 minutes from my job. >> Then this is the problem. Yeah, >> we got to get you out into the country where where rent is $1,000 a month for a onebedroom. >> Yes. >> Okay. And I'm I'm laughing, but I'm being serious. Uh your rent is going to keep you from freedom here.

>> So, your first order of business while everybody else is going out for Valentine's Day, you're going to be on the computer searching for a new place.

When's your lease up?

>> Um it's up in June.

>> Okay, perfect. >> Perfect. Yeah, it is. Yeah, perfect.

That gives you time to find the spot. It

gives you time to tell your kids, "Hey, we're moving." And that's wonderful.

>> Think about it. You went down to 1,500 instead of 3500. That's two grand a month you could be throwing at your debt. >> Yeah, that's that's I I've been looking for an apartment.

I have been looking I've downsized my look to one-bedroom apartment. Good. >> And there's I I think you're right. I think I have to expand my commute distance because I'm still hitting a wall with prices.

You have to if it's this or bankruptcy, I'll take a 20 minute commute, a 25 minute commute >> because that bankruptcy will destroy your financial life at least for the next seven years, which puts you into your mid60s by the time you can even recover. >> Now, what what about your car? Do you have a car payment?

I'm making my son's car payment right now. >> No, Lisa, [laughter] I know your name is

not on it. >> Just graduated. I know. He just graduated from >> Is your name on it?

>> Yes. >> What? Why? Why? Why? Why? Okay, so >> this is fun. Then you get to say, "Hey, son. I got to sell this car." >> Yes. >> Hope you enjoyed driving it. >> Yes. >> Tell him it was basically a rental. Hope you enjoyed driving the rental.

>> George has never been more right. But you have to do it >> right. >> How much is the car worth?

>> I It's 17,000 maybe.

>> And how much do you owe on it? >> It's lease. So the car the car that he has is >> Oh no, that's even worse cuz you can't get out of this thing unless you have the lump sum to do a full buyout, >> right? >> When's the lease up? >> Well, he could take the payments over.

>> He could When is it up?

>> I have to look. I'm not sure. I think it's another year. >> Is he working?

>> He just started a job. He just started an internship. So yes. >> Okay. So, um I would have that conversation. I'd say, "Son, uh I made a mistake and I'm really sorry. I because it's going to affect both of us. I agreed to pay this lease.

I can't afford it. I'm over here struggling. Um >> this lease is good for one more year. We either need to you either need to take this on completely.

If you can't afford it, I'll pay whatever little >> bitty portion that you can't afford to pay, but this is going to and and put it in George's words, if I don't fix myself now, I will end up being a burden to you later on in a greater way. And I don't want that. and hopefully he can understand that.

Um and I'm glad that you called in because I think that you're starting to understand that. But I can't stress that these are not going to be they're easy to understand, not easy to do, >> right? >> You know. >> Yes. Yes. >> So here's the math on this. If you say you said you make about 7,500 a month if

you keep the side job, right? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Are you doing any investing right now? >> No. Uh, well, a little bit to my 401k, but I I stopped that.

>> Good. Let's pause all investing to clean this mess up so that we can actually retire one day. That's the goal. And right now, investing is not helping us get rid of the mess. So, let's say you could, you know, you make 7500 and you lived on 4,000. That's fair. If you move this, if you switch your renting situation, that frees up 3,500 bucks a month to throw at debt, right?

>> With 130 grand in debt, you're done in about 37 months. three years, >> right? >> And that's if you do no other changes.

If you can just cut your rent down and throw that amount of the debt, we're done in three years. I think you can do even better with this with your you're very talented. You have a lot of highskilled um you know, you have a lot of high skills. I would use that to your advantage. Live on as little as you can for two years. Let's say your 60th birthday. Let's celebrate you becoming debtree. How cool would that be?

>> That would be amazing. Really amazing.

>> It's possible. I mean, you can crunch the numbers and go, "All right, this is the margin I need. I need $4,000 a month come hell or high water to be throwing at this debt. And then do the debt snowball. Knock out the smallest balance first. For you, the IRS debt goes to the top cuz they can really screw up your life and garnish your wages. So, I would attack that first. But once you're done with that, just debt snowball it.

Whatever the smallest card balance is, attack that first. Minimum payments on the rest. >> Okay. Keep making my minimum. Keep making my minimum payments. Yes.

>> Don't get behind on anything if you can help it. >> Yeah. I'm already a little bit behind on a lot of the payments. >> Is anything in collections credit card wise? >> No, not one credit card is actually.

Yes. >> Okay. So, go ahead and settle that one.

>> Try to get current on everything and then attack the IRS debt, then debt snowball the rest. That's your goal. So, we're going to cover four walls. Basic food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, and then beyond that, we are living like broke college kids. Cuz right now, your kids are living more lavishly than you are.

>> Yeah. >> That's [laughter] pretty wild.

Like I think college kids should be broke. That's the stage of life. Not a 58-year-old woman who's trying to provide for them. So you have done more than enough. You don't need to earn your kids love by going deeper and deeper into debt. [music] >> Right. Okay. >> You got this, Lisa. We're cheering you on. I'm going to gift you every dollar, our premium version to connect your bank accounts, have all the transactions come through cuz you make great money. It's time to put every dollar to work [music] cleaning up this mess.

Sweet.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last, and that means regular, proper maintenance.

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[music]

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>> All righty. Today's question comes from Kyle in Florida. He says, "I'm going to be a new dad soon and want to do everything I can to set my son up for success. We plan on opening a Trump account for him and contribute $5,000 a year.

How can we avoid a mindset of entitlement in our son if this account has hundreds of thousands of dollars in it when he turns 18?" We'd like to reinforce the idea that we did not set up this account to squander the money away on ridiculous material purchases every 18-year-old dreams about.

>> That's a great question. >> It's a really great question and there's kind of two sides of it. Uh George, the first side I'm seeing is um just raising a child in the way that he should go, right? Like there's what what you're teaching him about money in the next 18 years is really huge.

And then there's the side of is this really the best option for you? Um do you want to have control over that money or do you want him to receive this money at 18?

how is it smart for him to re to receive that kind of money at 18. Um so let's

talk about both. I'll kind of start with the the raising side. I think whatever

you show your kids the most is what they're going to pick up on and they're going to learn. And so if you've created a lifestyle where we don't squander things in our home and we're very thoughtful about our purchases and we don't buy things to impress other people, your child is going to pick up on that. So a lot of that is due diligence on your part. Now when it comes to the Trump accounts, h you know, if you want to participate, I suppose you can.

It it's not uh it's not what I do. Um, I do 529s for my kids and we also have a brokerage account that we know we're going to gift money to them out of when when we're ready to help with things like down payments and things like that. So, that's how we do it.

>> So, I I actually looked into this and I realized there's not a whole lot of advantages outside of the free thousand if your child is born 25 through 28. So, I had a kid in 2025. I will happily take $1,000 from the government cuz I've given much more to them. And so I'll take that free thousand for my little guy and it'll grow.

I will not be contributing more than that because to your point at 18 they get control if it's a Trump account. >> Yeah. And they don't need hundreds of thousands of dollars at age 18 >> and you hope they're going to go I'm going to use this for a down payment or >> you don't but you don't know. >> Yeah.

And we don't know exactly how they're going to guard against you using it for other things. They haven't been super clear about what you can use it for outside of education and a down payment. >> That's actually a major difference that I want to talk about. you know, you look at things like uh Roth IAS or custodial accounts or 520, they're established like what it is is what it is.

time. It's not locked in in what it will be and what it can change into. And I think that's something worth noting. Um but yeah, I'm the type of parent I want control. I don't want you ending up with $100,000 or $500,000 at age 18. I want

to have the control. Do you remember us at 18? No. 18-year-old is their their prefrontal cortex isn't baked yet.

>> Not it. Yes. I was not it.

>> These are the same kids taking out $250,000 for uh degrees that they don't need. So that's right. Let's not give them that control. So I do exactly what Jade says.

I got a 529 plan for education. I'm funding that. And then for other needs outside of education, >> I go with the taxable brokerage account in my name that I can name. That's right.

>> And then I can gift that money when I believe they are ready to handle it. And so if it's I want to cover the wedding, great. I can take that money out and I can pay for the wedding.

>> And same thing with a down payment. Or if you want to gift them a house, >> I want to be able to control that. And so I think that's very wise to do. And I'm not mad at the Trump accounts. I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. But I love that it's starting the conversation about investing for your kids at an earlier age.

>> It is. And you have up to $18,000 per

parent per child per year that you can give without really any >> without having to fill out the gift tax form. And so that's that's a great way to go as well. And the the exemption is now if you're a married couple, it's like $30 million. It's high for your gift your state exemption. So, uh not something most people have to worry about hitting. So, great question, Kyle.

I would if you want to do this I would contribute to the taxable brokerage account and if your child can get the free thousand bucks I would absolutely take that and let it ride because even a thousand bucks from >> that's yes >> zero to 60 don't even tell them it exist I mean they'll know it exists when they turn 18 and they're like sweet free money >> yeah [laughter] >> maybe that's for the first car that would be >> that's right perfect >> all right let's go to Quinton in Lincoln Nebraska what's going on

>> hey guys I appreciate y'all taking my call >> sure Um, so, uh, just to keep it short, I

have, uh, just found out that my

girlfriend, um, who I've been planning to propose to, is pregnant and, um, we're expecting twins.

>> Whoa. >> So, yeah, you know, a blessing.

Absolutely. I, uh, but concerned about

I'm I'm I'm on baby step two, uh, doing the death snowball. Um, I'm I'm I'm financially concerned that um, you know, with these two coming that uh, we're going to be in a bad spot if I continue to put everything into the debt snowball. Um, I'm wondering if maybe I should put a little bit more into savings instead and what your guys' thoughts are on that. >> I mean, yes, I would probably pause all

getting out of debt behavior because this is a a storm and a stork.

[laughter] This is storm mode and storm mode. Uh what what's the plan going forward? Was this somebody that you were thinking could be the one or did this was this really just like ah uh >> oh >> yeah, this was a very big surprise. Um it's it's funny because for months I've been planning we're taking the trip to Florida next week and I have a ring.

Um >> Okay. >> So we're going to do Yeah. So, you know, I wanted to do marriage and everything before kids and then uh come to find out. >> So, here we are.

>> Well, the good news is this was someone that you were thinking about that you knew you wanted to spend your life with. It wasn't just like I was dating this girl and uhoh and we knew she wasn't one. Okay. So, this is >> So, you're still going to propose next week?

[laughter] >> Yes, that's the plan. >> Good. >> All right. Okay.

So, that it just kind of expedites things. If I was in your shoes, let's propose. Let's hope she says yes. I assume she will.

and then let's get married. Let's do a courthouse wedding and then we'll do a big party to celebrate later cuz right now we're broke with a baby on the way. The party can wait. >> But I think it is wise if you were already planning on getting married, let's go ahead and speed that process up cuz we we've been doing some some things backwards now as you said.

You didn't want it to happen in this order, but here we are, right? So, let's move forward with a pile of savings. And when baby and mom, babies and mom are home safe, then we can hit play on the debt snowball.

>> What do you both do for work?

>> Um I uh I'm a union plumber and she is

she works in a daycare right now, but she will be staying home um when we have the kids. And that was kind of a second part of the question is, you know, with her being in debt and her staying home, um, marriage was obviously going to be

an option. Um, and as you guys are saying it, do it sooner than later. Um, but then I'll be taking on her debts as well. And so that's where, you know, >> it's going to take like a decade to pay this off if it's all on you.

>> Well, I mean, it kind of feels like it. You know, I make decent money and I I think >> What do you make and what's the total debts?

Um, I'm at 110 last year on my W TWS and

um, uh, total debt combined is about 26

27. >> Oh, great. >> Okay, we can do that. >> You can knock that out fast within a year.

>> Mhm. >> Maybe even less even with just your in, >> right? And that's where and that so I I just downloaded the uh, every dollar and it looked like, you know, I was going to get one of the big ones off right before a due date. Um, but then, you know, that's where I'm I'm now I'm like, I don't know if I should, >> right?

But no, no, no.

>> Mhm. >> So, it's just peace of mind sitting there waiting for you.

>> Are your expenses pretty low? >> I need that now.

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, mortgage, you know, we're looking at 1,400 and after that, you know, cars are paid off, >> right? >> Um, >> what about insurance? >> Insurance and >> uh health insurance. >> Yeah, car health insurance is all union, so that comes out before my take-home.

>> Okay. And do you know what the out-of pocket max is or like what the deductible is because you're going to need that possibly. >> Uh, I want to say it's a it's a 5,000 deductible, but uh if we add her on, I'm

not I'm not 100%. I haven't looked into that. >> I check into that. I always like to advise people to have that number saved up going in because again, [music] you never know what could happen and it could be very easy in certain situations to hit that deductible and have to shell out that money or even [music] worse, you know, out of pocket max for the year. >> But if your expenses are pretty low, you can throw 4 grand a month into savings.

7 months from now, you have all the money to pay off the debt and as soon as they're home and healthy, throw it at the debt and we're debtree, man. Best of luck.

[music]

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[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Jason is with us in Indianapolis. What's going on Jason?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, so the most basic level of this question is for about a 10-year period, my wife and I need to live in separate cities. Um, I'll be snowbirding and coming back seasonally. She'll come out to where I want to be as she's able. So, the the

most basic, how do we pull this off?

>> Why is it necessary? Tell us about what you're trying to accomplish. >> Sure. We're from the Indianapolis area.

We spent about three years in Arizona uh during the COVID years. And when we moved back to Indianapolis for some elder care and family responsibilities,

um CO has had a a serious impact on my

health. Um all the specialists I've been treating with not very effective. The

what has worked for me is the climate back in Arizona. Um, my conditions

continue to worsen and so I need to be out there for relief. My wife has a once-in-a-lifetime career with a large Indianapolis employer and has a pension um that we're

really going to need come retirement and

the family reasons um uh still exist for

her. >> Okay. So, is uh how much is how much do

you guys earn?

um combined, um we make about 160. And

she might have some potential for bonus, but we don't really think about that.

>> What makes her job a once in a-lifetime opportunity? Because when when you said that, I'm thinking that you're going to hit me with the fact that she's making crazy money. Well, um she's making crazy

money for the way we grew up, but she works for um a a big pharma here, has a

phenomenal job with uh her position was

eliminated. They allowed her to come back as though she had no loss time and

resume her pension where she left off.

>> Okay. >> Finding employers in this area with a pension, um not great. We're beyond the

part about where I think she should go with me and we should have one home.

That's a focus on the family discussion that we continue to have. >> When you say family, are we talking kids? Like parents?

>> Um uh her father-in-law, I'm sorry, my

father-in-law, her father um has dementia. And we're here to help um her

brother and his wife with elder care.

And then there are children having babies. And so we've got grandchildren, too. And you know it's a difficult situation because the the the crux of

this is my health and it's not improving

and you know there's something to be said for I'm not living and contributing

positively to the family dynamic until I

get better. >> Where would the majority of the time be spent? Um would you be or let me ask

this in a better way. Would you be living in Arizona? basically indefinitely and you're just making trips to Indianapolis to visit her where she's living in Indianapolis then making trips to visit you. Like it's two you're

spending the majority of time in your separate cities or is it kind of like we go over here then we go over there?

>> Right. So my employer um I work remotely

and have the flexibility to be back in Indiana during the lowest migraine season which would typically be the summer. >> So you'd only be there summer. Oh boy.

>> Typically, yeah, she would come out to see me when she can. I would come back here when I can. It doesn't preclude that I wouldn't come out other times, but in in terms of the biggest amount of

time, it would be summertimes. And this would be for a 10-year period when she plans to fully retire. And the way I'm wired, I'll I'll always have to work to

keep my brain busy. >> Let me tell you, let me tell you what I'm thinking right here. And again, this is a decision you guys are going to make. But the the two things that pop up to me is 10 years is a very, very long time. And a lot of times what I'm what I'm hearing here is several variables that are very important and that you're trying to hang on to every single variable, but they're not all they're

not all serving you in this in in in the in the in the right way. Okay? There's there's the aging kids or I'm sorry, the aging parents. There's the grandkids.

There's the dream job. There's the health issue. So, there's all these things. >> I really truly think that you're going to have to force rank the top two most

important things and make the decisions around that. If everything is important, your marriage goes down the drain. I just don't see how you can do this financially. Um because I would never hang on to a job simply for a pension, number one. Uh especially at the detriment of you having to spend 10 years like, you know, back and forth.

Then there's the part of there's the elder care, but you said the it sounded like you said the sister-in-law and her husband >> other siblings involved >> and so why wouldn't we use our flights?

Why wouldn't we uh and this is just an option. I'm not saying you have to do this. Why wouldn't we everybody move to a or and she gets a job there in Arizona

and then you take flights back to visit the grandkids or you take flights back to visit the aging parents that feels more balanced than the solution that we

that you're presenting. There may be more to it that I know nothing about.

But I think the number one priorities here have to be you staying alive and healthy and you being uh uh keeping your

marriage in a state where it can be healthy. And I think that has to go, as painful as that is, I think that has to go above the aging parents and the dementia and the grandkids.

Completely agree. That's been my preference all along. Um I'm up against

some resistance and some different

interpretations of um rank and

responsibility than >> forms of obedience. And so this is kind of the desperation throwdown of we've

had this discussion multiple times and I'm finally at a point physically and mentally where I have to start making a decision about my health long term.

>> Um and so that's that's the rest of the

dynamic. >> Okay. So you're just saying, "Yeah, I got to live. I'm going to do this.

Hopefully there's a way we can work it out to where this works." Do you guys combine finances right now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, the answer to your question, just to make sure we at least hit that, is how do you afford it? You're going to need to find affordable housing in Arizona. And that might just mean renting for now. I don't know that I'd go buy a house just for you. I would just rent affordably in the area and then do you guys have a mortgage in Indianapolis currently?

>> We do. The the other piece to this is it's a larger house than we needed. We did get a good deal because of some family connection. So, it's going to be a bigger asset at retirement, but we are taking in a renter that will help reduce

the mortgage. Um, and we've done that before um sporadically. My intent was to

start renting and then see later if I would end up in the condo that we would ultimately retire in because renting for 10 years doesn't seem to be [snorts] terribly wise. >> What happens at the end of 10 years? Is that kind of the time where you think >> aging parents might not be part of the picture? What what's what denotes 10 years? >> Um 10 years is when we're both 55. She

plans to stay with this employer and retire at 65 and then we spend the rest of our life out there. >> So really >> there has been the the plan all along at retirement. >> But it really is then now now we're seeing where the real priority is. It really is with the job, not the aging and and parents with dementia.

factors, but >> yeah, those were things to >> if you took the pension out of the picture, what would you do? Cuz I think you can get a great job in pharma making six figures and you guys can build your own wealth over a decade instead of hanging on to all of this just for a pension while your marriage is down the drain. >> Yes. >> And so those are some real hard things to consider.

I know your health is paramount.

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Sarah is in Boston, Massachusetts.

What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hey, you guys. Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

>> What's going on? >> Well, my question is, is it unwise for

me to move out of my mom's home while paying off my debt?

>> Ah, how old are you?

>> Well, I'm 41.

>> How long you been living there?

>> I've been back home since November of 2024. >> Okay. What happened that that got you back into her house?

my dad uh was sick and had passed away.

Um so I wanted to go home and um be able to be there for him while he was alive and be able to help um where I could and

then he had passed away in February 2025. >> Oh, I'm so sorry.

>> Thank you. >> Did you move your whole life there? What? Like job and everything? Kind of relocate? >> Yes, pretty much. I was in Colorado. I

um was I had an apartment. I was had a full-time job. I was a part-time job as well. I was doing okay. This happened. I just really felt led to come home.

>> Um, so [clears throat] I literally sold everything I could get my what I could in my car and went >> back home to Massachusetts. >> How much debt do you have?

>> Um, I actually uh it's about 52,000.

>> What kind is that? Break it down for us.

>> Yep. So um I have student loan debt.

It's around 33,000.

I have a vehicle that I own and it's uh

about a little over $14,000 and then I have um pretty credit credit

card debt around $4,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And what do you make?

>> Um currently I make at my full-time I make about 70,000. Um and then I have a

part-time job roughly. I don't know what I make annually there. It does change but it's part-time. Um, so roughly I

would say I take home about $4,500 a month between jobs. >> 4,500.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So,

um, you know, if you were So, it's been about a year since your loss.

>> Mhm. >> How's your mom doing?

>> Um, she's doing okay. It's a different situation. It's actually They were They're actually divorced. They were they've been divorced for years, >> but she was where I came home. I couldn't stay with my stepmom and my dad, so I stayed with her.

>> I see. I see. I see. >> But she's doing okay, but it is a different circumstance. >> Okay. Um, so the purpose of you moving

in with your mom was to be there for your dad. It didn't seem like the purpose of that was to pay off debt

because you had the same debt when you were in Colorado with the apartment.

Yes. >> Yes. >> What caused you to not get ahead on the debt? Was it you just didn't have a mind to pay it off yet or you didn't have the margin?

>> Do you [clears throat] mean when I was in Colorado? >> Uhhuh. >> Um when I was in Colorado, um I just didn't have the margin. I mean, I just paid as best I could. Okay.

>> But I just didn't have the margin. >> So do you think that if you moved out and got yourself in something a nice, you know, a fine one-bedroom apartment somewhere around a,000, you know, 1,100 bucks a month, you would have the margin to do it at that point?

Um, I don't think I have the margin. Um, in this area, it's hard to even find a room sometimes for that.

>> Are you in the city proper or are you in a suburb?

>> I'm suburb. >> Okay. And do you work remotely or is it in person?

>> In person. >> Okay. So, I'm wondering, you know, how far of a commute could we handle to get somewhere that's a little less expensive? Can you tell me the I'm from that area. I'm just curious, what kind of area are we talking about where it's super expensive in the suburbs because it can range. Um, Metro West, okay,

Metro West area. Um, >> I would look and see how what kind of place could I get for just a one-bedroom on my own. And here's why. I think it's it's hard to not stunt your growth and progress while living in mom's house.

I would say 90% of the time someone tells me they're living at home, they're usually not making the progress they should be based on how little their expenses are. >> Yeah. I'd rather you have an outside roommate than live with mom or dad

>> cuz I think you can get out of this debt in even renting your own place. You can be out of this debt in two years if you got serious about two grand a month your debt's cleared. >> Yeah. >> So the question is how do we create that margin of two grand a month even if we were renting somewhere? And if you're bringing home four or five grand a month all right now we know we need to live on three grand max to make this goal happen.

>> Right. Right. I think that's I think that's what I I haven't been I know I don't see you guys. I haven't been Cazella tense. I know I haven't I know I'm just trying to kind of um manage

life right now and and and still have fun but pay off debt too. So I think I know I can do better. Like I know I can go full force. I just find that when I do that I it's it's like it's just it

just seems like it's a lot of stress, you know, but at the same time I have a set, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, it is hard to the things that we're talking about. Again, they are simple to say, but when it comes time to do them, they do. It takes a lot of mental energy to stick to a plan. It

takes a lot of mental fortitude to do the things that you say you're going to do on your budget. And it really does

become a full-time job, you know, to pay off your debt. It's like, all right, every day I'm thinking about it. I wake up, I check my every dollar budget. I'm tracking my transactions. I'm having to pack my lunch. You know, I'm having to make sure I take the food out, you know, of the freezer for dinner, so I'm not ordering takeout. It is a lot. But you kind of have to reframe in your brain what's more stressful. Is it more stressful to be 41 years old and, you

know, not really able to not feeling confident to do life on your own or is it more stressful to for How long was it, George? >> Two years. Two years, two grand a month.

You'd clear this.

I'm ready to do it. >> You got here's the question mark. Can I ask you this? How much progress have you made while living at mom's house rentree with no expenses? Have you thrown all the extra at the debt?

>> No, I haven't thrown all the extra, but I have paid off debts. I have paid off um several lines of credit. Um I mean I am doing it. Um but I have not I have

not put every you know every >> You got to you got to feel you got to feel the boiling water. It's like a lobster. You got to feel the boiling water. It's going to make you want to jump out of the pot.

>> And that's not a knock on you. I think if I asked most people, they would say the same thing.

You don't really feel the fire when you have a place to sleep and you're not even paying the rent. And so, you go, "Well, I need a little cushion. I deserve I deserve to go out tonight. I deserve to do Door Dash." Yeah, >> I think when you're on your own, it's going to you're going to feel it in a good way where you go, these are my bills to pay now >> and I'm a grown woman and I'm going to knock out this debt.

[laughter] >> I missed some I miss things happening at home where it's definitely g pushing the button where I'm like, okay, I think >> your own space.

>> And [laughter] there's the social component, too.

>> There's the social component of you being able to live your life and meet someone and all those things that go along uh with this. So, just remember, money touches every area of your life.

And for you to be really that full, complete person, you want to get those areas healthy and put them in a place where you can really grow to your fullest potential. And living on your own at 41, it's just it's it's got to be part of the deal. >> Yeah. This is a choose your hard situation.

Either way, it's going to be hard, but I think the independence that you'll feel actually will cause you to make more progress. >> Well, yeah. And then there's the time limit, too, because if you say, "Well, it's it's just harder for me to get out of debt," then you're going to be struggling indefinitely. But if you say, "Well, it may be hard to get out of debt, but it's only for a 2-year period," then you get to shorten the length of the hard season.

And that to me is a no-brainer. >> Yeah, that's true. We got time for a quick social question. I want to hit you with J.

You ready? >> Yeah. Which one? >> This is from Tracy in the Ramsey Baby Steps community.

If someone budgets, wouldn't these be a helpful financial tool? [laughter] >> Okay, so I'll be honest with you, and

George, this is this is where I stand on this. I know plenty of people who will

say, "Oh, yeah, I'll just take it and I'll pay it off every month and and they never will. They just they think one thing and another thing, >> the promo period ends and now it's 29% APR all the way back to their >> or you fall on hard times and what you intended on doing just doesn't happen." There's so many variables that can keep somebody from paying off a zerointerest

credit card. And then there's the whole thing of like, okay, maybe maybe there's no interest, but it's still something that you owe. If you allow it to accumulate just a little bit, you lose your job. It's just another added stressor. So, for me, it's kind of like, what's the [music] problem with making an income and just spending the income?

It's kind of like it's kind of an insult to yourself to go to your job and work hard every day and give your time and your money and your effort and then you look at your paycheck and you go, "Eh, that's not enough. Toss it to the side. I'm just going to take this credit card instead." >> I like that. Just become your own line of credit with money you actually have and that's 0% interest money all day long in my checking account and I don't have to pay it back and you [music] make more intentional decisions when it's your money and you're using it now.

>> [music]

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[music] Well, our team has been working hard behind the scenes [music] to bring you guys a brand new tool. It's called Ask Ramsey, and it's our free AI tool that is built and trained on Proven Ramsey principles. And today, we're going to break down some of the most asked questions from the week. And there's a lot of themes here, Jade.

>> Yeah, people are asking, of course, we're in tax season, so they're asking a lot of questions about taxes and mortgages are always a hot topic. And so, refinancing, should I pay the mortgage off early, all of that. And then cars, George.

very popular topic as well. A lot of drama and emotion around cars. And here's the number one question we've been seeing. How do I know when it's time to stop putting money toward repairs and decide to sell it and buy something else?

Very common riddle. So, let's go over just some basic things to consider here. Uh, one is how much is the car worth versus the repair cost. If the car is worth three grand, the repair cost is four grand, well, this is a bad idea.

>> Yeah.

Have I hit that point where I've just >> Is it in the shop more than I'm actually driving it? That's a problem. Probably time to replace it. And then are the repairs around crucial safety items or is it like a this would be nice to have or it's cosmetic or just it's an annoyance.

>> And then your personal budget matters, too. >> Do you have the money? >> Can you even [laughter] afford a different car? >> RIGHT.

YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE A CHOICE. SO, I thought it would be fun to actually pull up Ask Ramsey live. Our folks in the booth have it running back there. And let's use a real life example because what's cool about Ask Ramsay is it'll personalize the advice and ask you questions to dig in just like we would on the show.

So, let's try it out.

which hurts my heart. And the trans there's a transmission repair needed for about 1,500 bucks. All right, so those are our numbers. The car is worth $2500.

Repair is $1,500. So, they're going to input that and it's going to be asking them some follow-up questions. Here it is. What's the estimated repair cost?

It's $1,500.

And it says, "How does it compare to your car's value?" Well, the value is currently $2,500. So, the goal here is Ask Ramsey will kind of help us make a recommendation on what we should do next based on our situation. And it does an incredible job. Our team has been walking us through this.

I am so impressed with how on brand it is. It's the advice you would get right here on the show, but you don't have to call in and hope that you can get through the phone line. So, this is something you guys can jump on ramseyolutions.com and do for yourself right now. So, here's what it says.

If it's $1,500 gets your car running reliably for another year or two and there aren't any other big repairs coming, fixing it is likely the best move. I couldn't have said it better myself.

>> Yes, because it can save your chats, which that's [laughter] a good that's a good point. If you sign in, it can actually save your chats and history.

reference

to ramseolutions.com

ask a test spin. It's right there on the homepage. Go to ramseysolutions.com.

You'll see a big open kind of search bar there as you scroll. And that is asky.

You'll see our faces next to it. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube to check it out. Again, that's ramseyolutions.com.

The tool is asky. We are very excited to see how it helps so many people that we can't get to. The inbox is full for the Ramsay Show. People that we just simply don't have the time to get to. So, think about this. It's like Google but a thousand times more powerful cuz it's not giving you a bunch of random answers that you >> Exactly. So, check it out. It's great.

Lori is in Memphis, Tennessee up next.

What's going on, Lori?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

>> Sure. >> Um, my husband and I have always been on the same page financially. Uh we've been very blessed and we are debt free. We

have 2.8 million invested.

>> We take out just a minimal each year to to live on. Um but we do have some fun.

You know, we like to travel. We purchase a new car with cash, different things like that. But we have a little bit of hard time letting go and just living,

you know, afraid of what might come around the corner, how long is that going to last us. Um, we retired early at 55. I'm 58, he was 60. So, we do have

a ways to go, you know, with health care concerns and everything coming up.

>> Sure. >> Um, >> you you guys could go another 35 plus years. >> Yes. >> So, it's wise to be thinking about that.

And you said you have 2.8 in your nest egg. >> How much are you pulling off it every every year?

>> Every every year. Uh, to together we're pulling out 79,500.

>> Okay. Let me give you the numbers on that. That's 2.8% of your portfolio you're pulling out every year.

>> Yeah. >> And if you talk to any financial adviser in America, they would tell you that you would never run out of money if you were taking out four or even 5%.

>> You know, with health care costs the way they are today, um we're trying with healthare costs >> our insurance down and it's just it's just difficult for us to let go.

>> Sure. Well, what you can do is you can kind of estimate, hey, u if we have long-term care insurance, here's here's how much we're going to pay for that versus paying it out of pocket. Most people are not in a nursing home or private care for 10 years.

>> They're two to two years. >> Yeah. >> And so now, you know, all right, it's going to be 100 grand a year for that. So, we should set aside 200 to 400 grand to cover us for those things down the line. That's kind of the worst case scenario, right?

>> Yes. >> And so, now you know, hey, if you you have 2.8 8 million. If you just live off of the growth and leave the principal, you'll be just fine.

Cuz I know what the stock market has been doing. I don't know what you're invested in. I hope it's not just totally in in bonds and cash and you've actually got some equities in there.

>> Do you know what you >> We're with a financial advisor and and we do make a good return. I think we got 17% this past year.

>> Yeah. 17%. So, think about that on 2.8 million. That's enough for you guys to spend for like five years just off of that. >> Yeah. And so I think part of it is looking at the math and the reality of it. And then part of it is flexing the muscle of going, man, we work so hard to flex our savings muscle and it is looking good. And then this other muscle, the spending muscle is atrophied in the meantime.

>> And so it takes time. It takes time to let go. >> You wrote a check for that new car. How much was it?

>> Well, we we had a trade in then we uh spent $47,000 cash.

>> Did that shock you? Did that like hurt your soul a little bit to write that check? >> It did. >> And then the next time you do it, it's going to hurt a little less, isn't it? Because you're like, "Oh, I've been here before. We're gonna we're spending 50 this time." And it's kind of like, "All right, our life didn't change. We're not broke." >> I know. We've always paid cash for cars.

Our our home is paid for. We put our daughter through college. She's graduating with a four-year degree and her master's degree this uh this May.

>> Amazing. >> So, and she's she's going to be, you know, debtree from college. So, we've done the right things. It's just at this point we're still young to be retired and you know we're just afraid of taking that next step and kind of letting go a little bit.

I mean even to the point of you know we thought about putting in a swimming pool for example and that's $70,000 and we said uh we we we can do without the swimming pool.

there is this something I can solve?

Like usually the ones that are kind of like vague and kind of ambiguous. Oh, if I spend this money on the pool, I'm going to ruin everything. Well, what's that mean? Like, drill that down and try to make it a a a more realistic fear so

that you can actually solve for it. What are you going to afraid to What are you afraid is going to happen? Are you and one of the things you mentioned is healthcare. Are you afraid that a $70,000 pool is going to keep you from having healthcare in your later years?

Well, then you just you have to ask yourself, is that actually true? And when you say, "No, it's not cuz I ran the math. It's not true." Now, now we're talking about true versus false. It's not even, you know, a thing of fear anymore. Is Is that even true?

>> Can I give you something that's true?

>> If you made 17% on 2.8 million, that's $476,000.

>> Oh, I know. >> That's multiple swimming pools and that's not even touching the principal.

And so, again, looking at the facts and going, >> we're going to be okay.

>> But the pool thing comes into play because when you resell your house, can you get the money back out? So, we're cares about resale. You're not even thinking about reselling your house cuz you're thinking about putting in a pool. >> That's a question for your kids to have if this is where you want to stay long term.

And the resale value, it's likely not going to tank. It may not go up significantly enough to cover the cost of the pool and the maintenance. But you're not doing it for that. You're doing it to enjoy.

That's why you worked so hard and retired early and busted your butts investing over the long haul so that you can enjoy it. So remember this part.

And part of that is literally forcing yourself to enjoy the money in a budget.

And so I would up your fund money, Lori, and up his fund money to an amount that kind of you're like, this is uncomfortable to spend this much on myself cuz you go, I don't deserve this.

I'm not worth it. What if I run out of money? And instead start going, I deserve this and we're not going to run out of money. We set ourselves up for a life of abundance, not scarcity. And doing that budget and forcing ourselves to spend over time, I think you'll get there. and a good exercise. Go do the pool and realize you're okay. We're down to 2.73 million now. Oh, >> please do the pool. >> What are we going to do?

>> You got this.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Gloria is in Albuquerque up next. What's going on, Gloria?

Hello.

>> What's going on? >> Um, thank you for taking my call. Um, so my question is, um, we are on baby step

six and my husband and I are both teachers. Our son is 28. He's been married for 5 years. Um, this last year

he has stopped working to do full-time

uh, Christian recordings. Uh, he's a musician. He's a Christian recording artist. It is not paying him at the time. He's um trying to build up an album. He has about 47,000 monthly

listeners. Um >> great. >> And so yeah, we're >> 47,000. Is that like Spotify listeners?

>> Yes. >> So you probably made $4 this this month from Spotify. That's exciting. >> Absolutely love it. >> Absolutely. He's also the uh uh music minister at church. That does pay him um about 600 monthly. His wife is a teacher

also. Um and so right now she is uh

providing financially. We're hoping that this ministry helps him provide financially, but we he is living they

are living in our rental. The rental um has not been making any profit. They pretty much just pay the taxes um maintenance. And so even though we're on

baby step six, my husband and I are contemplating on just gifting him the home or gifting them the home. Um, and

that's my question. Am I Are we doing

this wrong? Are we supposed Yeah.

financially, I feel like God is just providing in every way possible. We don't even feel um not getting that passive income. We don't feel it. He's just We're blessed right now. And so that's my question. >> The rental is paid for in cash. You don't owe anything on it. >> The rental Yeah, the rental has been paid. Um we paid that off quite a long time ago. And in our home, we owe about

86,000. We are debt free.

>> Um, thank God. But, um, with our

>> When will you be done with yours?

>> Well, I'm hoping in 5 years or sooner

because we can put we uh we can put about 2,000 extra a month. And I will be

graduating with my PhD um in December.

And so I feel everything is in place.

>> What's your home worth?

>> It's worth maybe about 300,000. Our neighbors have sold for about 500,000,

but ours is threebedroom.

>> What's the rental worth?

>> I'd say about 150, but it would probably

sell for less.

>> Okay. So why gift it to him? Why not just say you guys don't have to pay the costs >> right now for a season? >> That's a good question >> cuz there there's also tax implications you got to think about.

>> Mhm. >> Because if you if they inherit the house, they'll have a step up in basis versus what you paid for it and now they're paying, you know, the capital gains if this house continues to appreciate. So that's one piece.

And I also know he's pursuing a dream right now and he's he's on the way. Like he's doing great. And I also know that Jade and I are musicians and there was a time I was working full time and doing albums and playing gigs at night. And that's just the path of being a musician and being in that world. And so I would encourage him to figure out a way to cover his own family's bills while pursuing this dream if that's possible.

>> I hear you. That's kind of how I started this journey too is I I hustled quite a lot to start these steps and um my husband and him were like, "No, I don't want to do that." And then when they saw me like getting stuff paid, they're like, "All right, talk to me." And then we all hopped on uh the Dave Ramsey the baby steps. >> Um and yes, everything you're saying actually makes a lot of sense. I guess being emotionally uh invested, you know, he's our son.

And two, the most important thing is that it's a ministry that he's, you know, doing to try and bring others to Christ.

Yeah. >> Um >> I mean, you can you can support, you know, if you want to support the ministry in that regard, that's fine to do that and say, "Hey, we want to gift you $1,000 a month for the next year so that you're less worried about your bills and to support you as you pursue this album." Who's who's paying for the album? Because that's not cheap.

Um they have money saved up. They like

before he got married, I made sure he had a fully funded emergency fund and

you know that he Yeah. Okay. So they're not struggling and everything. >> They didn't do this out of a a place of desperation. They're still doing fine.

Even with teacher salary and his 600 bucks a month from minister at church, they're doing okay. They don't actually need your money.

>> I just see I don't see those things because I'm it. Yes. I needed and that's

why I called because I'm like I need to see someone who's not emotionally involved. >> Is it just you or is it your husband too? >> Both of us, my husband and I. He's our son >> and he he he is 100% on board with this.

Or does he have any qualms?

>> We Well, no, he has no qualms. We just

feel I don't know. I just I'm uh we're

trying to stay faithful to God and and so I just feel that he's just telling us to >> listen I'm not I'm not going to if you tell me God told me to do something I'm not going to be the one to tell you >> I'm not going to get struck by lightning getting in between that >> right but um if you want to know just

practical or logistic thoughts I I I'm with George in the way that I think they're at a a critical point of

um deciding what they're going to do and having the having the motivation to work for it. For most of us, the motivation is I got to take care of my family. I got to make do you know what I'm saying?

I I have to hit certain standards in order to live and survive and provide a life. And that creates great motivation.

And when that's kind of taken out from under you in the form of a gift, it can

actually end up taking away, right? It's like >> you can feel like you didn't really earn it in a sense. >> And so we we've talked about can this move hurt him? Is it is it removing um

part of his contribution?

>> Because they're so young. They're so young. They're just getting started. They're 26. >> You said 20. He's 28. They've been married 5 years. Okay. >> Oh, 28. Here's what I would do as a parent. I would not cover his bills. I would help fund the dream. I think that helps you separate this in your mind of I'm not helping prop him artificially.

I'm just going, "Hey, I believe in this mission. I believe in this music. I'm gonna help pay for the publicity for the album or I'm gonna pay for the recording studio time for the album and you could still >> that is a great blessing >> and you could still have the goal like knowing in your hearts you are going to gift him this this home in uh you know initially or I'm sorry eventually but just not yet.

>> Okay. and in and our in our [clears throat] journey too financially I I just you know we're trying to see should we skip this step because we are not in step seven um and that's where like the real I mean we tithe but we don't um give like we want to

um so hopefully we will get there.

>> What do you mean by should we skip this step? Well, because we're on baby step six. And then when we really give,

that's what comes at baby step seven.

When you are just Yeah. When you're just like ready to, okay, where am I going to >> And that's the other part of this. That's the other part of this is you still have a mortgage that you need to pay off. And I'm not suggesting that you need to sell this house and pay off a mortgage or anything like that.

>> Okay, good. Very good um advice. I had

not thought of a lot of angles that you all brought up. So that >> yeah, there's some big implications. It's a big financial decision and so I would just start small and you can always ramp it up later. And so if you want to let them not pay for living in the rental right now, that's a nice thing to do.

If you want to give money towards, you know, whatever pieces are left for him to fund the dream that he wants to do, that's also wonderful. But I wouldn't just gift him a house right now. I think it's too big of a >> There's just there's just a lot of dignity and going out and being able to provide for yourself and hit those milestones that I think we all want to hit. Now, I'm sure there's a lot of people listening right now going, "You're stopping him.

You know, you're stopping him from GETTING YOU A HOUSE. LIKE, YOU'RE BLOCK YEAH.

You know, there's something to be said for that." Um, >> well, the thing is, he doesn't need a house right now. He needs a successful music career. >> And so, anything you can do to actually help that part, I would aim aim my my financial guns there >> versus just helping cover the bills cuz that's not really where they're struggling. What he needs right now is get the word out. You know, let's get more listeners.

moving this 4700

about 47,000 more than I have. So keep [laughter] it up my man [music]

[music]

[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. [music] I'm George Campbell joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Elijah is in Boston up next. What's going on Elijah?

>> Hello. How you doing? >> We're doing great. What's your question today?

So, uh, my fiance and I, we currently have, uh, $130,000 saved up. Um, we have

an additional hundred in the like stocks and stuff, but we really just want to leave that and we're we're looking to use the 130 to buy a house. First,

initially, we got pre-approved for like 350. We put in an offer on the house,

had an inspection done, and found out all these things were wrong with it. So, we backed out of the deal, and um, we're like, well, maybe we should just build a house. We have no experience doing that though. And um it's the winter time where we live. We're actually living in a camper right now. Uh we did that. We sold our house, bought a camper. This way we can downsize and save some money.

>> So you had a house previously that you owned?

>> Yeah, this was about 5 years ago. We sold it and um you know, we kind of downsized. We we wanted to just kind of you know, have less debt. Um we really didn't need that much space anymore. But now we're finding ourselves in a position where do we buy or do we build?

Um >> what's your budget >> for the house? >> Um what is our budget to? So we were

looking to spend if we build 130,000 is pretty much our budget. Not including the land. >> We figured we'd finance the land and and just you know pay everything else out of pocket. >> Okay. Well, all in then how much do you plan to spend? So 130,000 on the on the actual home. How much would you spend on the land?

So we, for example, we found a piece of property in an area where we live. It's 40,000. We put down 25% that's 10. But,

you know, we still got to do a septic, a well, you know, all these utilities and and it's just >> So, is the goal to live like off, you know, off property, off the land somewhere, not in a society? Is that your goal? >> Well, no, not like off- grid. That that would be great, but it's just where in our area it's really not an option. Um, you know, most of the land that we find it's like we have to be on utilities to some degree in this area.

>> Is this >> so you know, excuse me, our goal is just

to be debtree. We have all this money, but like why do we need to go be in debt right now? >> Well, I it almost sounds like you had one bad experience >> and it's kind of turned you off to the whole thing and now you're kind of gone.

Not to say that building a house is an extreme, but it's kind of like you went to the extreme of well, if this didn't work out, we just have to go build our own thing and start from scratch. Um, >> right. I if you if you want to build a

house and start from scratch, I think that's great. Uh but if you just had a

bad experience and maybe you just need to spend a little bit more time with another realtor or, you know, looking at some different properties, I why not just do that? So, I think you guys have to decide what it is that you actually want.

>> Yeah. >> What do you want? >> Well, I guess what it Yeah, that's the thing is that we just don't want debt. Like in our area, the houses are just selling for like well above uh you know what we're willing to pay, you know, $400,000 and these houses are still like fixer uppers, you know, and it just it just doesn't justify putting ourselves in debt.

>> How much do you guys make?

>> Uh so we make together over like about

120,000 a year. >> Great. Are those remote jobs or you have to be there in office?

Well, I'm a school bus driver and uh and she's a nurse, so we have to be an office. >> Okay. Because I'm just thinking, you don't want to be 45 minutes out somewhere, you know, [clears throat] with septic and trying to do all that.

First of all, it's going to be a full-time job if you're going to build from scratch and deal with all these contractors. And so, I would start for now with to avoid the headache of what you guys can afford in your area. And even if you had a small mortgage that was very reasonable as as far as your take-home pay is concerned, that's okay.

It's not a sin to have a mortgage and you can knock it out fast and get aggressive with it. And if you're going, "Hey, I cannot find anything for $130,000." Welcome to 2026 in America, especially in Boston, Massachusetts, which is where I'm from. So, I can tell you it's not cheap over there.

>> How long did it take to save the 130?

>> Um, well, honestly, it took us about a year or so, and a lot of it had to do with when we sold the house.

>> Yeah. How much of it came from that?

Um, well, honestly, we have in total 230, but I don't know what we what we have in in this in in stocks, like what we've gained. I mean, you know, like what it's valued at. But >> so, you have 230. Hold on. Let's sort through this money. How much is in stocks?

>> 100 of it is in stocks and then and then we put 130 away for like it's called our house fund. >> Okay. So, you have if you were to sell off the stocks somewhere around 230

total.

Okay. >> I'm asking, is there any money anywhere else we should know about? Okay. Uh, does that >> um >> Go ahead. >> No, no, no, no, nothing else. No.

>> Okay. So, you would definitely want to have some sort of an emergency fund set aside. So, some of that money needs to be set aside. You keep it liquid, keep it in a high yield savings account.

But I'm with George. I think that if you can I hate debt, too. I do. But I think with this real estate market, there is something to be said for getting in when you can get in and when you can actually afford to do so.

And I think that if you guys can find something uh that's no more than 25% of your take-home when it's all said and done on a 15-year fixed rate, I would do that in 2 seconds. >> Yep. And that's exactly what I did, Elijah. We on our first town home, my wife and I, we put down 40% cuz we're crazy people.

And then we paid it off in 26 months because again, we're crazy people. >> That's what that's what I suggested. And I'm like, well, what if we just put down more money?

We'll have less debt and and then we can work on paying it off faster. And even if we ever decide to sell it, we have more equity in the house. >> Exactly. And so that's what I would do.

Put down as much as possible, which lowers your mortgage and your payment, which allows you to have more margin to throw at the mortgage to knock it out fast. Because here's the other thing you got to think about. If it takes you five more years to save up and pay cash, well, guess what happened to the housing market in the next 5 years?

>> It went up. >> Getting worse. Yeah, it's the moving the goalpost keeps moving. And so do it when you're financially ready, when you can get that payment to 25% or less of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed and you find a house that you guys go, this is great.

Yeah. I mean, if you if you sold off those stocks, let's say you kept 30,000 aside for a 3 to 6 month expenses, and let's say you found something that was worth 350,000, you put 200 down, that's great. 15-year fixed rate mortgage, you're right in the parameter that you need to be.

What you're going to get for $350,000 may not be what you're picturing in your mind, but you got to start somewhere and you got to get in where you fit in. >> Yeah. In two years from now, that house is paid off and now it's worth 400,000.

Exactly. >> Now you can roll all of that into another house and do the same thing or even pay cash with the money you can save all the time. I I really hope that there's a way that I can get this call and and play it for my fiance cuz I've been trying to say this and and she's like [laughter] very skeptical, understandably so, but she actually introduced me to you guys.

>> Oh, great. >> Listen, she will listen to Jade Warshaw.

I'll tell you that much. And you're lucky for you, everything we say is on the internet forever. So, you can tune in on YouTube and catch this call and we can have our team send you a link as well so that you don't miss it like that. >> Yeah.

Get into that if you haven't already. go to ramiesolutions.com and look at the mortgage calculator and that's all I use to figure that out for you. You can use it too. Um, and you can calculate it at an interest rate, 15-year fixed rate.

And that's how I did it. So, >> and while you're on the website, you can reach out to a real estate pro in your area. And this is a a crew that we have vetted, real estate pros that do it the Ramsay way, who aren't going to let you buy a house that you can't afford, who want you to become debtree as fast as possible. And so, man, I think you just need some tools.

Either way, it's going to be hard, but I love your dream of becoming debtree as soon [music] as possible.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Okay, picture this. You sit down to do your taxes, but instead of stressing out, you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti when you're done. Okay, not that last part, but Ramsay Smart Tax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry. Ramsey Smartax is a 100% accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years. So go to ramiesolutions.com/smarttax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress-free filing. That's ramseolutions.com/smarttax.

[music]

Guys, the VIP package is officially sold out on the Live Like No One Else cruise, but there's still a chance to lock in the preferred package, which gives you extra access, better seating for all the events, and more time with Dave and us Ramsey personalities on board. We're so excited for this. If you're debtree, this is your chance to celebrate with us. You can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit today and join us in the Western Caribbean in March of 2027.

Click the link in the show notes or you can go to ramseyolutions.com/events to book your cabin and get the preferred package before it's gone. It's going to

be a good time. David is in New York up next. David, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Love the show. >> Thank you. >> So my wife Yeah, I appreciate it. My wife and I are in baby step six and um about a year and a half ago, I was laid off from a like a tech executive leadership role that I had. I was making really good money. We were we were plowing through to paying off a mortgage and saving for retirement. And then for the following year, I just really hunkered down and was applying as a full-time job. And I I applied to 1500 jobs and I stopped counting.

>> Oh. >> But about six about 6 months ago, I I uh took some some various jobs that I could find within my network here. But my income has gone down from like 250 plus bonus down to like 50k. And my life

works. But what I'm trying to decide now is, do I keep looking for tech jobs in this greater New York City area, which hasn't really connected yet, or do we take the equity out of our, uh, our home here and move to a lowerc cost area that we've already been talking about doing, uh, like North Carolina or the greater Atlanta area where there is a tech economy. And, uh, the hard part there is is the grandkids. So, that's the hard part we're wrestling with. But, >> are the grandkids in New York City?

>> Yeah. I have uh three of my four adult children live in the area and they are all now married and have little ones. So >> that's fun. >> Well, let's taking the job out of it.

>> The idea of moving. >> Yeah. Take the job and income out of it. What would you guys do?

>> Stay in New York City or move? [snorts] >> We would move. And we've already had two of our adult children say that they would follow us because they can't afford to live either. So, but you know, but it would >> So, it's like, hey, we could all use some lower cost of living.

>> You'll just be the first to go.

>> Okay. Totally. >> Well, have you applied to jobs out there? Do you have any connections out there?

>> I have. I mean, I've applied up and down the East Coast with some of those tech areas. I I think what happens though is they don't take you seriously if if it's a hybrid job and you don't live in the area. It's really hard to break through.

Um, so I wonder if I position myself there if they would take me more seriously as a candidate.

>> It be easier for if you're local.

>> Exactly. Yeah. And I've had had a lot of interviews. It seems like the whole remote tech thing has gone now to hybrid thing. So >> yeah, that's died out and people are going, "Nope, I want you in office at least some of the time, if not the whole time." And so that's that's I think going to be their foreseeable future.

Uh, I would try out some of Ken's tools and resources before you make any of these decisions because he's got a great book called The Proximity Principle and it'll help you figure out how to not just be another digital, you know, resume application in a stack cuz applying for 1500 jobs, you can pretty much do with a click of a button. And so you and everyone else and AI is now applying and bots are applying for jobs.

And so you've got to stand out in the crowd. You've got to know somebody. You need to have some kind of connection referral. And even here at Ramsey, the ones that gets that to the top of the pile are the referrals from team members going, "Hey, my buddy, he's sharp. He's applying for the job. Can you guys take a look at it?" And straight to the top of the stack. That's what you need.

>> What would it mean for your wife's job if you guys were to move?

>> Yeah, she has a job. Thankfully, her company is national and she can do her same job anywhere. Um, and the good news is she has the health insurance right now, so that's good news. >> Great. What's she earn?

>> She's making about 50k.

>> Okay. Um, >> so you guys are making it work in New York City right now on 100K.

>> Yeah, it's it's tight. We have about $200 to rub together at the end of the month. But as long as we don't have a major expense. Here's the part that scares me, though, is um our emergency fund went down from 50k to 5k. So, you know, we're >> Yeah, that it's precarious for you.

Yeah. >> So, you're you're partially sort of artificially funding this from the emergency fund.

>> Yeah. I mean, most months we keep we we're treading water. If there's a big expense, it does dip back into it, which is scary, obviously. >> Yeah. This is becoming more and more of a It would be nice to We have to do this. >> Yeah, I think so, too. >> I I agree. >> You're on the cusp of going have every weekend. >> If you didn't do tech, what would you do?

>> I mean, I've looked I know I have transferable skills, so I could I could lead like a client services organization. I'm helping my friend right now with like, you know, revops and building out his construction business. Um, I I have a Yeah,

>> have you applied for like adjacent type roles?

>> I have about five versions of my resume and I've I've been applying to a variety of them. Um, but I'll tell you that the best interviews that I get are the ones that are like um, you know, executive recruiters that reach out to me. That tends to go further. I've been a finalist more times than I can count.

Yeah, it might be worth kind of using a head hunter to help you get in the door if you have that level of experience and people are looking for top talent.

>> So, there's a lot of things you can do and I just don't want you kind of spinning your wheels while running out of money in the meantime. >> And so, that might mean finding extra jobs right now just to float you to not dip into that emergency fund until you guys decide to move or you get a different job. >> And it might be on her too. I think she needs to find a better paying job if you guys are going to stay in New York City.

>> Yeah, I know. It's tough here. It's very expensive. Thankfully, we have a ton of equity in the house.

Um, so we're going to, if we do, if and when we do move, we'll make out really well. Um, but >> yeah, imagine being able to buy something in cash in, you know, North Carolina and make the move and make more money than you're making. You're going to feel like a bajillion. >> Fabulous.

>> Well, I'm wishing you the best, man. It's a tough job market. Uh, it's it's not on you. It it just really is tough out there and it's going to take getting a little more creative and a little more personal to get that gig.

Tori is in Dayton, Ohio.

>> Hi, thank you for taking our call. Um, we have a 30-year mortgage and are wanting to pay additional on the principal so we can afford the 15-year.

If we dropped our investing from 15% to company match for only two years in addition to what else we can squeeze from our budget, we could get the principal low enough to afford the 15-year. Would that be wise? We're debtree accept the mortgage, make 175k annually, and already have 350K in retirement.

>> Cool, cool, cool. So, you're saying you want to lower investing in order to afford the 15-year payment as far as if you refinanced?

>> Yes. Yeah. And just lowering the retirement so it gives us an extra grand a month to put towards the principal on

top of everything else we're going to be throwing at the principal. >> I I I Why do you feel the need to refinance? Why Why not just throw any and all extra money at the principal when it comes time to to do so?

>> So, we are doing that. I think just sometimes when we look like on your all's um calculators and things, it's just like so much interest we're paying and so we would like to get to the 15 year, but we realize pay the less interest. >> Technically afford it with the principal that we still owe.

>> Yeah. The principle still applies though as I mean principal PLE that if you put extra on the 30 year you're going to save interest as well, >> right? >> And so I wouldn't do it. I mean I'm a big fan of the 15-year mortgage, but there's there's a time and a place to refinance. And that is you're debtree except the house. You're investing 15% and can keep it there. You can comfortably afford the 15-year payment.

And you got to think about the break even point. It's going to cost you two to 5% of your loan to refinance. So if it costs you eight grand and it saves you 400 a month, well, you got to stay there 20 months just to break even.

>> And so that's the part that that worries me. I don't know that you're going to see significant savings instantly to the point where this is a no-brainer. Now, if you had a 8% mortgage and you can go down to a 3%, well, the numbers might make sense. But if you're going to go down 1% and it's going to take 5 years to break even just so you can feel better about it, I wouldn't do it. I would just pay aggressively on that 30 and pretend like it's a 15.

>> Okay. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.

>> Absolutely. You can crunch the numbers on our uh mortgage payoff calculator.

just use your 30-year and say if we put two grand extra a month, we would save $100,000 in interest and pay it off in the next 7 years. And so just you can still be aggressive about the goal. And maybe there is a time and place you refinance and it makes sense. But I don't know based on what you told me of having to lower investing to make this happen.

>> That's the part that I was like, eh, >> that doesn't feel right. >> If you could go back in time, we'd probably realize you shouldn't have bought this house with this level of mortgage, >> right? [music] >> Uh but here we are. It's okay.

You guys are doing great. You're crushing it. You got money in retirement, you make great money. I would just aggressively attack it and knock it out.

ramiesolutions.com. [music] It's our mortgage payoff calculator. It will light a fire under you to see that amortization schedule. Indeed, how much you're giving your lender as a gift for them giving you this loan. It's generally in the six figure range is what you're going to see is what you gave them on top of the loan. That hurts your soul.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtree stage, we have Brian and Tara with us. Welcome guys.

>> Hi. >> Where are you guys from? >> We are from Clarksville, Tennessee.

>> Right down the road. Wonderful. Well, thanks for being with us to celebrate.

Congratulations. How much debt did you guys pay off? >> Thank you. We paid off $411,000. Uh 500.

It's a lot of dollars. >> It is. >> How long did that take? >> It took eight years and seven months.

>> Wow. >> Awesome. And what was the range of income during that time?

>> Uh 70,000 up to 250,000 now.

>> Wow. >> What What was the uh raise due to? Was that just you guys working harder?

Someone got a job, got promoted?

>> Yeah, promotions. I mean, we took on some side jobs. Uh started a couple small companies as well throughout the way. So, couple different things.

>> Incredible. Okay. What do you guys do for a living? I'm the chief operating officer for ReadyMix Concrete Company.

>> Okay. >> Um and I'm a teacher slashstayatome mom.

>> Awesome. That's a fun slash.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what kind of debt was the 411?

>> So um it was student loans, uh two cars,

lots of credit cards, um and then our mortgage. >> WOW. WAY TO GO. >> YOU JUST busted through. >> We did. >> Okay. Did you even stop to breathe or did you just go right through two, three into four, five, six?

So, we had a little bit of a lull after we paid off all the consumer debt. Um, and then we just jumped right back in.

>> Wow, that's exciting. And, uh, I got to ask, what was the mortgage comparatively to the consumer debt? >> So, the mortgage was about 298,000.

>> Wow. Okay. >> The consumer debt was 113.

>> So, what was the spark that lit the flame to start all of this eight years back? >> I'd say family. uh her sister was

following the plan with her husband and they kind of talked to us about financial peace and uh we started along the way. >> Yeah. When we got married, she gave us the CDs, the total money makeover and we [laughter] listen to those together um skeptically. >> Yeah. I was going to ask, how did you get someone on this on that on the Ramsay plan? Cuz you must have taken it as a disc when she's like, "Hey, you need you need this. Listen to these CDs.

You guys are broke." >> Yeah. Well, um, she gave them to us and we listened and we were kind of like, h, we like it. Good ideas. Um, so we kind of started paying off a little bit of extra debt here and there, but we did like the Davish for about a year. Um, it

wasn't until we took a job in Texas and

we started making a substantially larger amount of money. Um, and then we looked at our bank account one day and we were like, "Hold on a second. We're still living paycheck to paycheck. Where is this raise going?" Um, and we looked at

all of our budget items and kind of figured out where where all the money was going and we were like, "Whoa, we're spending that much money going out to eat? That is crazy." So, we got on the every dollar budget and we started to just cut everything out that we didn't need to have. And that's when we really started going gazelle against all the debt. >> Wow.

>> You just were like, "We need to be doing better. This is insane." Like, we were making so much more money. And did lifestyle creep hit you where you were just kind of spent everything extra that you were making? >> Yeah, for sure.

I mean, we were we were going out to eat a lot. I mean, you never realize how much money you're spending at restaurants till you actually look at it. And so, yeah, it definitely hit us.

>> So, how long did it take to do the first portion? So, the first portion of this is like 111,000. That's like the the the consumer debt. How long did that part take? >> So, that took us 22 months.

>> Okay. >> Fast. And so then you decided, you know what, that feels really good. We're going to start working on the house. And it sounds like you really were just intentional about it. Not nearly as intense maybe as the other debt, or was it just as intense? >> Um, it was definitely more intentional, I think. Um, we made a lot of sacrifices

and took on some extra jobs. Like he said, we opened uh two businesses and that brought in a lot of income on the weekends. Um, and yeah, >> that's really cool. I'm curious what was your like life hack to paying off this mortgage early cuz people and you see Tik Toks about how to do it and I go just pay extra on the principal.

So were you guys paying an exact amount of an intentional goal or was it hey depending on how much we have extra this month we're going to just chunk it at the mortgage. >> We just chunked it at the mortgage every month. I mean whatever we didn't spend on the budget we we put towards the mortgage. >> What was like the lowest amount you put on the mortgage in a month and what's the highest?

>> H >> So we we get a yearly bonus. Oh, nice.

>> So, we pretty much threw everything extra during the year and then when we got the bonuses, we would throw it at it. Um, that's >> I think one of the largest was what, $80,000?

>> That's got to feel good. >> That's juicy. Yeah, that's nice.

>> That is incredible. Well, you guys have worked your tails off. >> Have you done anything to celebrate?

>> We went on a cruise. [laughter] >> We went on a cruise. >> Nice. >> Just one? >> Just one? >> Just one so far. So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is house and everything?

>> I think you just got to start chipping away. I mean, you look at the number and it seems like a really big number. You seem like you'll never get there, but I think every little bit counts and you just got to work your way towards it.

>> And sticking with a budget also, if we hadn't got on the the budget, we would have never been able to do it. So, figuring out how much you're spending and cutting that down as much as you can. >> I love it. And you had some cheerleaders along the way. Of course, family giving you the CD sing Listen to this. Anyone else that was a part of the journey?

>> That was pretty much it. My sister, they actually paid off all of theirs about two years ago. So, we came and celebrated with them a couple years ago.

And >> that little extra fire under you like, "All right, we're next." >> Yeah. >> Buckle up. Oh my goodness. >> Great. So, how do you explain the feeling to someone of being completely debtree?

>> Yeah. It's hard to explain. I I don't even know. Like it's it just feels like freedom. >> You almost wonder what to do with your money the next month. [laughter] It's an odd feeling. >> Yeah, >> that's a good problem to have. >> Yeah. What did you do with it the next month? >> We still save it. >> Yeah, we still [laughter] save it. We're We're hoping to invest in some real estate here pretty soon.

>> I love that. >> Maybe a little bit going towards the kids one day. I see some off to the side. >> Yeah. >> Getting antsy. You want to bring them up? Sure. Okay. Let's get their names and ages as they come up on stage with you. Was that a big why for you guys having the kiddos along the way? Because are any of them like they weren't even born yet when you guys started the journey? It looks like >> Yeah, this is Elliot. She is five. Uh

Cooper is two and then we have a eight-month-old walking around somewhere with an aunt. >> That's fun. >> But yeah, actually none of them were born when we started.

>> Wow. So, a lot of life happened along the way and you guys stayed intentional.

It may have slowed down in seasons here and there, but you guys had your eye on the prize. >> Fabulous. Oh, beautiful. So cute. We got

fire. All right, we'll make it quick, buddy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

>> Oh, it's so Let's get to it. Here it is.

We've [screaming] got Brian and Tara from Clarksville, Tennessee. $411,000

paid off in 8 years and 7 months, making 70 or 250. House and everything paid off. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Ready? 3 2 1

An actual debtree [applause] scream.

>> I'm going to count the crying as a cry for joy. >> That's what I'm saying. An actual debtree scream. >> Oh my goodness. >> I love it. >> We're screaming for all kinds of things.

He's probably screaming for some, I don't know, milk right now. He's hungry.

[laughter] >> Oh my goodness. That's exciting.

>> That is exciting. Whenever young mortgage, >> especially when they have so much time on their side. >> Oh gosh. They're not even close to retiring. >> They could be bajillionaires.

>> Like think about it. how much wealth they can build just investing that mortgage payment every month. >> That's right. >> You know, two grand from 40 to 65 with compound growth, you're like, "Well, that's an extra couple million right there." >> Yeah.

These are people who understood that if you just decide the time is going to pass anyway and you can just build little by little and you look up and you're exactly where you want it to be, but it takes time. >> Yeah. And he's so right. You see that big mortgage balance and you're like, "Well, we can't pay it off early.

What's the point? We'll just make the minimum payments. we're gonna move eventually anyways. Who cares?

>> That's just so passive. >> That's normal in America. And instead, he went, you know what? We're gonna knock out a little bit and a little bit and soon it's gonna be 250 and next thing you know, it's 200 and now it's 150 and now we're under 100,000.

We're like, we can see the finish line. >> And it's so funny because people are afraid of the sacrifice, but I look at them and I'm like, they're intact. They live their life. >> Their their clothes don't have holes in it.

Like they they look like they eat just fine. You know what I mean? Like they they're they're here and they're fine. And so everybody who's afraid of the struggle or afraid of the timeline, man, just embrace it.

It's going to happen and you'll look up and you could be just like them.

>> You know, I George, you said it and I I got to go on that cuz it's so true. And I think the world, you know, the way the world is, it it has set us up to not embrace the things that take boredom, patience, [music] sacrifice. You know, our brains, they just want everything right now. And that's not the way money works.

Everything we teach requires boredom, patience, and sacrifice. It's just >> if you can learn to be a crock-pot in a [music] world full of microwaves, you're going to build so much wealth and be the weirdest person on the planet. And people will go, "Must be nice. Well, they must have got lucky.

Must have had an inheritance." They went, "Yeah, they they worked their butts off to get some luck.

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>> [music]

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>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our

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scripture of the day, Joshua 1:9. Have I

not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.

>> Amen.

And Ryan said, "The question isn't who is going to let me. It's who is going to stop me." >> Oh, them fighting words. >> You got to say it with your chest. >> Jay just bowed up a little bit. [laughter] >> All right. Dwayne is in Jacksonville, Florida. Up next. What's going on, Dwayne? >> Hi. Thank you. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> All right. So, I'm wondering how much to spend on a replacement for my wife's car. So, she right now has a SUV. We

need a little more room next year. three kids, carpool. Um, so we're looking to trade up for a minivan.

>> So this one I could probably get five, six, maybe 7,000 and I'm looking for probably a good quality minivan that'll uh last a while basically. So trying to figure out how much to spend.

>> Cool. What do you guys make a year?

>> Um about 55 after taxes.

>> All right. And what other vehicles do you have?

So, um I have a used Acura and uh I just

sold my Nissan for that.

>> Okay. So, you got the used Acura plus this SUV right now?

>> Mhm. >> What is the used Acura worth?

>> 17 and a half. >> Okay. And do you guys have any debt?

>> No, just for the house. >> Awesome. That's how much do you have saved for the car so far? That's outside of your emergency fund.

So, I basically have like 85 or so

thousand in investments. A fair amount of that is set aside for um upcoming

construction on a house, but I'm feeling like we could push that off a little and take a little more of that for a car if that makes sense. >> What kind of investments is it in? Is it just in a brokerage account?

>> Relatively conservative in uh what's it called? Um um with an investing company.

I forget the name. Um,

>> it's just but it's just a normal taxable brokerage account. It's not anything for retirement, right?

>> There is a Roth IRA in there, too.

>> Okay. >> But a lot of people, >> but you wouldn't touch that to use for any of these goals, construction or the car. >> Definitely not. >> Okay. How much do you want to spend on this thing?

>> I'm thinking around 15, but I'm wondering if it might make sense to go a little better and get something that'll be a little more reliable for longer time without spending too much on maintenance. >> Okay. Well, I'll give you the parameters. Number one, you you've done it the right way so far. You're debtree.

You've got an emergency fund. You're going to pay cash for this thing. And the other parameter is that you don't want anything with wheels and motors to add up to more than half your annual income. So, take your gross household income. What does that add up to? Is it closer to 70 75?

>> Well, my parents are actually really nice and uh still help out with me very willingly. So, um I don't really have to feel too much pressure to earn more quickly. I have more of a long-term plan with with earning more with the job trajectory that I've taken. >> Okay. >> So, >> what's your current household income though? You said 55 is the take-home, what's the gross?

>> Uh 68. >> Okay. So, if we take, you know, you're 68, right? And where you divide that by two. That means the max for all the cars in your life is 34.

>> You own an Acura that's worth 17. So, let's take that out. That leaves you with 17 to spend on the car. That would be kind of my top limit for the car is that 17 grand.

I'd be very comfortable with that. If you guys have the cash and you want to buy a $17,000 used minivan, I think you can get a great one. And if you focus on, you know, reliable makes and models in years, do your research and go, "All right, we're going to get a I don't know, I'm making this up, a 2016 Toyota Sienna." >> Yeah, something like that >> that, you know, so just kind of start to figure out what's in the range.

And then you'll kind of go into it knowing what you're getting into. get a pre uh pre-purchase inspection on whatever car you get so that you don't have to wonder if it's going to have issues later on down the road and I would think you're going to be in great shape.

>> All right, thank you very much. >> Congratulations. I can't believe I got to give someone good news today, Jay.

Yeah, I love that. So, there we go.

Let's get to Victoria before we wrap here. Newark, New Jersey. What's going on, Victoria?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

>> Sure. Um, so essentially me and my husband are looking to start a family, but we're feeling kind of like it's not going to be possible anytime soon with like the financial situation. Um, not

that our financial situation is bad. We just would preferably like you to be a stay-at-home mother.

>> So going to one income feels tight,

>> right? >> Okay. Yeah. Tell us the situation. Do you guys have any debt?

>> Uh, we do. We have a mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is about 25,000 and

the mortgage is about 500,000.

>> Okay. And then what do you both bring home every month?

>> Uh my husband brings in about 165,000

for the year. So about 12,000 gross for

the for the or 8,000 sorry gross for the month. >> Uhhuh. >> And I'm bringing in 90,000 a year. So

just a little bit over 4,000 um net for

the month. >> Got it. So, the question is, would you be able to just live off the 8,000 and maintain the lifestyle that you have?

>> Right. Um, I'm leaning towards no because we're essentially saving all of my income. So, without my income, we would have no savings. Um, we do have a

good amount saved and we do have a lot of equity in the house. So, we're not opposed to, you know, relocating, but

the Northeast is just so expensive, we're concerned that relocating won't even do it for us. What's the mortgage payment every month?

>> Uh, with taxes, we're looking about 5,000 a month. >> Oh, there's your issue. There's your issue right there, my friend. Now, you said he takes home 8,000. That feels too low. If he makes 165 gross,

>> um, well, after, you know, 401k contribution benefits, he's walking away with eight. >> Okay. >> Is he investing 15% right now? Do you know the amount?

He's only investing about half, like 8%.

>> That it just doesn't track. I know taxes in New Jersey can't be that high because he's walking away with less than 100,000 out of 165.

>> Um, somehow we still owe taxes every single year as well. Um, so I I really don't, you know, I see the paycheck that comes into our joint account and it's pretty much 4,000 even.

>> You guys got to take a look at that tonight and and just say, "Hey, let's let's see where this money is going." Because to George is exactly right. I'd be looking at that and saying is are we investing in an HSA? Are we investing in like how many different places are we putting invested investments? How much are we paying for health insurance out of this? Is there any anything else coming out of this that we don't realize? Um is the withholding right on?

All of those things I' I'd take a a steeper look at. >> Little magnifying glass to that. And then what's the car payment? >> Okay. Um the car payment is about 500 a month. >> Okay. Well, I think there's going to be sacrifices made here either way. If you definitely like you're like, I'm going to be a stay-at-home mom, then it's going to look like downsizing, um, not doing anything fancy and selling this car.

>> Okay. >> Do you guys have enough in savings to just pay off the car today?

>> Uh, we do. We have about 120,000 in in cash in saving. >> Great. What are you saving that for?

>> Um, we don't know. So that solves on my next question, like what can we be investing in? Can we get into real estate? Should we just throw everything into the stock market? Like how can we start making some passive income on this to kind of make the situation better?

>> Here's what you do. This next house you buy and downsize, you'll use that money to then lower your mortgage payment to where it's two grand a month and you get to be a stay at home mom, >> right? >> So I would not go like you have 19 goals right now of I want to be a real estate guru and be a stay-at-home mom and I want to invest in the stock market. I would focus on the one thing that you said you want to do. Just stay at home.

So, I would pay off the car today if you love the car. It's not too much of your income, but we got to free up that 500 bucks a month so we can breathe when you become a stay at home mom. And so, it's sort of pre-planning for this new life and then live on his income for a month.

See how it feels. Put your income completely aside and go, what would life be like if we had to live just on this?

And when you relocate, it's going to make it a whole lot easier to go from five grand to 2500 even.

Right? >> So, that's the thing to solve for is how do we get our mortgage or rent to be closer to two grand out of this eight so

that we have enough to still live our life, to still invest, to still go on trips, to still save for our kids' college, to still knock out the mortgage early. And that's going to mean a different lifestyle than you guys are leading right now. But I think it's a worthy and noble goal >> and I would definitely do it if I was in your shoes.

>> We definitely want to.

>> Awesome. Well, once you sell the house, you got some equity, use whatever's left, you know, that 75 or 100K, put it down on that next one, and you get that mortgage down to like 200 grand instead of 500 grand. >> Excellent. >> Now we're cooking.

Now we can actually have a reasonable payment, and you can stay at home forever and not be stretched thin. It's a great goal to have and it's a great reason to do the baby steps. >> It's always found in the mortgage. The answers always lie in the mortgage payments.

>> That'll get you. >> That'll get you. >> Wow. Well, that puts this hour of the show in the books.

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## 45. Don’t Let Money Drama Keep You Broke | September 16, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken

Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the big hit on the Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. The phone number here is8825-55225.

Pat's in Boisee, Idaho. Hi Pat, how are you? >> Hi Dave, thanks for talking to me. Um, I'm the executive for my dad's estate.

Uh, about 6 months after his death, I received a letter looking for the person who could act on his behalf. I looked up the company and it's a debt collection agency primar primarily focused on collecting debts related to deceased individuals. >> Wow. They utilize techn Yep.

They take Yeah, I've never heard of this either. They utilize technology like probate finder on demand to identify and contact the personal representatives of estates to recover unpaid debts. So, my dad absolutely did not have any debt. He was Dave Ramsey while Dave was running around in diapers.

Uh he didn't borrow money.

just from looking at unclaimed property I do know that there is a gentleman who lived in the same metro area as my dad for many years who had his exact name first first name, middle initial and last name. So I'm thinking I don't know maybe they're looking for that guy here.

Here's the deal. I don't even want to talk to them. I don't want to spend time on this. I don't know if you need to know the name of the company, but how worried do I need to be?

Well, I mean, is the estate settled?

>> Uh, the the pro probate is is finished, but it's uh it's not closed yet. I haven't closed it. >> Okay. What what is lacking for it to be closed?

>> Nothing. I was just uh doing some final

insurance policies and transfer of his

property to my mother. So, that is done.

I can close the estate at any time. As far as I know, there was nothing that came up during the probate.

So, your mom's still there and she's sitting with whatever assets that they had.

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. Okay.

>> Um, well, um, I don't know Idaho law,

and I'm not an attorney anyway, even if I did. Um, but the, uh, uh, most states

have a period of time that a creditor can file a claim against an estate,

uh, before, after, or during the probate being open. Okay. And I don't know what yours is. Okay. Uh >> so if they so if they didn't, I'm probably good. >> Uh probably uh from a from a legal

practical standpoint or from a legal standpoint. From a practical standpoint, um I I these folks um they they get they

have one little thread that they're hanging on and they're going to pull that thread and pull that thread and pull that thread. eventually going to end up hassling your mom probably.

So, from a practical standpoint, I would put them down. >> I'm I'm her power of attorney, so they won't get much further than that. >> I know. I know. But if they start calling her, start mailing filling up

her mailbox with stuff. I don't think there's a legal issue. I don't think they've got a claim. You don't think they've got a claim? They're probably outside the notice of meeting to creditors period of time. All that kind of stuff. But that doesn't keep them from driving everybody in the in the soup crazy. Okay. So, I I probably would invest a few minutes and just shut him down.

>> How do I shut him down, though? >> I would just call him and say, "Um, he did not have any debt with you. I'm the

executive of the estate. Um, and um, you

can give me a social security number. Send them a copy of the death certificate. None of that hurts you in any way. and um uh you know are our you

know I'll give you the last four digits of social security numbers if it matches with what you think you're hunting but I think you're hunting this other guy and you need to stop and if you don't provide me proof of written proof of debt and you don't stop I'm going to sue

you under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because you're violating it now that I have told you that I am demanding proof of the debt

Can I just said demand proof of the debt without providing them anything to start with? >> I'll give them the last four digits social security number. What I'm trying to do is in case there's two brain cells on the guy you're talking to, if they happen to rub together, you want to give him a way to go away.

>> Oh, it's not him. I got to go the other way. Okay. Right.

But in case they're in case they if they think But the problem is some of these companies and what what you need to be prepared for is and I think you're kind of already there is they will try to collect from someone that is that they know is not legitimately the debt just by hassling them >> and that's what I'm worried about. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I'm not worried about it because you're going to shut them down.

>> Okay. We're going to block them. Okay.

And if they continue to pursue, um, I would have an attorney send them a letter under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because they're in violation of federal law if they continue to pursue after you show them that it is not his debt and you give them last four digits social security number and they don't provide proof of debt. The other thing that's going to come up is they probably don't have proof of debt. They probably bought a line item on a spreadsheet. A lot of

debt buyers don't get the actual documentation on the debt. They just get a line item, point of last contact, some

details about a name, whatever the files got, and it's just a a whole list of line items. It's not like they have a file on him.

>> So, they point being, I don't think they can provide proof of debt, but I'm going

to ask because I'm going to make one or two phone calls with these people and try to in a civil way make this go away.

But if you determine that a they're trying to collect from somebody just anybody and they just think they can hassle you, then just pound their face, right? And then uh and and or b that

they cannot provide proof of debt and they won't go away. What I'm more than anything trying to do is get them to quit calling you and quit calling your mom >> and it's worth two phone calls to invest in that or to never call your mom.

>> Okay. Right. I like that. Okay.

>> Yeah. And then but again, write that down. It's the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Okay? And and it is federal law that they're violating. If you demand proof of the debt, they don't provide it and they continue to attempt collection.

Hammer them.

I was looking for something to add. You You covered it from every angle.

You know, look, you got the facts and so don't be afraid to take this on and then shut it down. I think that's what this is. I don't think this is harassment. I just think Dave's nailed it. They don't have a lot of influence. >> It's not harassment yet. It probably is going to be there if it doesn't stop.

>> That's right. >> So, the thing is, folks, you got to do debt buyers when they buy debts are typically paying anywhere from 2 to eight cents on the dollar. So, they're paying 80 bucks for a $1,000 debt. And

they can't they can't even find the people in most cases. In this case, they're chasing deceased people's debt.

Okay? Okay. So, they're always trying to chase down the um this is basically

prospecting. Yeah. Yeah. It's they're dialing for dollars all day long. And you know, it's a horrible job. And here's a here's You want to be worse than somebody trying to collect on an old debt? Collect on an old debt that you know the person is dead, >> right? >> I mean, this is a bad job. Cleaning septic tanks is more fun.

>> And so, honestly, seriously, oh my gosh, what a horrible position. So, they probably got high turnover. They got a boiler room, uh phone room going. Looks like something on Wolf of Wall Street or something. That's right. >> And um they're just, you know, and the average job time on the job's 21 days and they they're just constantly hiring new people that are dialing for dollars.

You're probably not going to talk to the same person twice. >> And they're brainwashed, by the way. They come at you with a script.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And so that they don't get knocked off.

So, you better really be strong and show a lot of facts. >> And the other thing is the neat thing about the technology is you can just hang the phone up. Just push end.

>> That's always enjoyable.

And then slide that little thing over that says block. And you're done.

They're done.

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If you've not listened to Ken's show, it is has exploded as a brand new big hit.

It's called Front Row Seat. It's long form interviews with uh people who are changing the world in all kinds of different ways, inspiring people. And uh Ken, I actually loaded and listened to about half of your episode with Rachel that popped. That's the one that's currently up, right?

>> That's currently. Yeah. I was hoping that you and Sharon would actually listen to it. I thought it was really fun.

I enjoyed it. >> So, Cousin Ken, >> did you know this? >> Cousin Ken. >> I know.

You know, I don't think I've ever told you about. Didn't we talk about it? Yeah, absolutely.

>> Well, Ken and Rachel are like a brother and sister in a way and in in really a toxic ways, actually. But uh so he makes a great interview interviewing his sister of sorts. Yes. There. And uh and it's a great you truthfully I was a proud dad because you brought out some of the best parts of Rachel. >> I think so. >> In the interview. It's a beautiful beautiful >> she did it. It was really fun and there is a very fun moment where you'll get to actually hear and see uh what Dave is

talking about. Are Dave and I related?

We we aren't 100% sure, but there is some evidence that maybe we are seventh cousins once removed, which makes Rachel my eighth cousin once removed.

>> And interestingly enough, >> so your cousin Eddie is what we're saying. >> Yeah. Right. And we have fun with it on the show, but it's really funny. I don't know if you ever saw that video when I haven't seen the video, but I I remember you and I talking. >> Wasn't it hilarious how she reacted?

>> Yeah, it's hilarious. >> Her reaction is priceless.

>> Classic. Yeah, because she's so fun.

>> James is in Salt Lake City. Hey, James, what's up?

Hey Dave, you've probably answered this question a thousand or a million times, but um my wife and I, we have a lot of kids, which is our decision. You know, I'm not blaming anybody, but uh

>> I always wanted like I always wanted like four kids and she always wanted 12.

So, we're going to compromise and have 12. So, that's our family situation.

>> You really have 12 kids?

>> Well, we have 11 right now.

>> Oh, okay. >> But you seem thrilled, by the way.

Wow, I have that type of voice.

>> Okay. Oh, okay. All right. That's good to know. >> So, I make more money than I ever thought I would make, honestly. And yet, and and 5 years ago, we were pretty much debtree.

But just in the past four to five years, we as our kids have kind of reached that age, my wife has stuck them in sports and extracurricular activities, and now we've amassed almost $50,000 of debt in maxed out a

credit card. and you know push some expenses that we haven't paid medical or whatnot.

And this is something that >> what do you make? >> I think I know the answer.

>> Well, net I mean gross I would say I'm

pushing right around 200.

>> Okay. All right. >> And net though after everything after insurance and medical and whatnot taxes it's about 120.

>> Okay.

Anyway, the nearest I can figure we're spending about 25 grand a year on the, you know, a little over two grand a month on these sports. And I I think that's kind of the silver bullet. And yet my wife is just absolutely not

willing to really give these up. She's she's going to look for a job and stuff, but what do we do? You know, I I don't know. >> How in the world does a woman with 11 kids work?

>> Well, that's a good point. She doesn't have the time nor the energy. Our youngest is five and >> that's all that's nine. That's obvious obviously not going to happen.

>> I mean the daycare you'd have to float a federal grant.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Well, she's hoping to pick up part-time work while our youngest is in school from >> in between the four in between the fourth and the seventh kid. Oh my gosh.

No way. No, the sports are not the problem. And no, her working is not the problem. Okay.

Her not saying out loud, "We have a limited amount of resources and we're going to live within them." You not saying out

loud, "We have a limited amount of resources and we are going to live within them." And write it down and my wife stuck the

kids in sports. Not anymore. My wife and

I decide if we can afford

anything. And it then it goes on the budget and then and only then do we do it because we both looked at the overall picture like two grown-up people and said we chose to have 11 kids and we have to manage $200,000 to feed them and not go in debt because going into debt continuously is not sustainable. Duh.

>> Well, part of our income is with uh and maybe this is my the tail end of my question to get your opinion. We have a couple real estate, a couple rental properties that cash flow very decently

in my opinion. And she says, "Well, let's just sell one of those, you know, to use the >> That'd be fine, but what do we do when that money's gone? Cuz you continue to overspend, >> right?" Yeah, that's my position. So, >> yeah, you can't you can't you It's not sustainable. What you're doing is not sustainable because your system sucks.

You don't have one. >> Yeah, I like that word. I've been using that a lot the past couple years.

>> The system doesn't work. the system when the two of us sit down and look at our

income that we have coming in and say, "All right, what are we going to do with this income?" And we're not going over it.

And there's no excuses for going over it, by the way. None. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah, you've just confirmed. I think that's that's kind of where we are. >> You can't be passive and say, "Well, she did this." No, she didn't do it. You stood there and watched it.

>> Exactly. >> So, you did it, too. and and she can't say, "Well, you know, >> you just go make the money and I'll take care of the house." No, you're not taking care of the house. You're spending more than we make and that's not sustainable. So, we are going to get on a system where we decide together where our money is going. You get a vote, I get a vote. We've got to come into alignment and it's got to be on less than we make. And so, the sports

aren't the problem, they're the symptom.

her working is not the problem. It's the symptom of you guys not being on the same page of being above this strategically and then developing a tactical process out of the strategy called a budget that actually makes the money behave. I will add to this that you probably can afford to do the sports once you guys get organized and get aligned.

>> Yeah. I think the reason I think your reason you went in debt is she doesn't have an off button because she didn't have any system at all. That was there's no governor on this at all.

And so she's just going >> Yeah. I I don't believe that all 50,000 of the credit card debt is two years worth of sports. Is that what you're telling us? Because you actually called it the silver bullet. >> Five. >> Yeah. >> It's about five years.

>> Well, yeah. We spend about 24 grand a year on on sports programs, >> right? Well, the other question I was going to ask you, and I because you're on the phone and because I'm a man, I'm going to ask you this. Would you have worded the opening question the way you worded it if your wife had been on the call?

>> Meaning saying that she's got the kids in sports. >> Yeah. It was all about her. It was It's Here's what it sounded like.

It was forget your voice because you already gave us an excuse on the voice. The voice sounds like you're beat down and like you're just throwing in the flag and you're having no real communication with your wife. That's what it sounded like. >> But my question is, it's a real question.

Would you have said it that way? I wanted four. She wanted 12. So, we're doing it.

>> And then she stuck them in sports. Would you have said it that way if she were sitting in here in the room with Dave and I and you? >> I of course. What was the answer?

>> No, we we compromised. So, I wouldn't have said that because she doesn't like it. But we've talked about this issue with a counselor, you know, and so I would say the same things. I think that she's sticking them in sports, >> right?

Okay. is the problem. >> And by the way, I didn't ask you to paint you in the corner because that was not a gotcha question, but I'm glad you've answered that way because I think that you got to be very careful.

We have got to resolve the resentment.

That's what I feel and hear >> on this call. I don't know your take.

>> I'll go with that. I'll go with that. So guys, the um I I would say 50% of the

coaching and calls that we get and the different ways contact points we have with people uh that are p that are married come back to this idea that we

have to both in the room be adults.

This is a limited amount of resources.

There's this is a math problem. And there's actually a a number of dollars at the top of the page and we spend the

money on the page the way we want our

life to look and when it runs out we

stop and the two of us together both have a vote on that and we figure that out together. That is the only system in 35

years of doing this that I have been able to figure out that will actually work. The idea that one spouse is off the rails or is not accountable to the mathematics and is a child and the other spouse is resentful. That idea, I've never seen that create a successful relationship or

build wealth.

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just learning to set the thing up and you go, "Oh, look at that. I got a raise." And you can get out of debt, of course. Why? So you can start building wealth.

Hello. And you can ask any question during the live Q&A. It's a cool thing. It's a free every dollar training.

Haley's in California. Hi Haley. How are you?

>> Hi Dave and Ken. I'm good. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. So I'm going to try to be brief here. Um, I am a single mom to a

5-year-old boy. Um, I don't receive any

child support. Um, I have a career in finance. I gross 140K a year.

>> Look at you. Way to go, girl.

>> Thank you. Um, I have a pretty low net

worth. It's about 50K. Um,

15K of that is an emergency fund. Um, my

boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years. We love each other. We are

discussing marriage. Um, his net worth

is a lot bigger than mine. Um, he has a

trust fund and he lives off the dividends of his trust. The principal is about 2 million.

>> He does work. >> He owns a business, but it is not profitable. He's owned it for 10 years.

>> So, he's a hobby.

>> It's a hobby. He doesn't pay himself a salary or >> businesses that don't make a profit are called a hobby.

>> Yeah. It's kind of like a passion.

>> That's not a good indicator of his character.

>> He considers it like community service.

>> Yeah. I consider it he's hiding in his trust fund money. >> It's a bad idea. What's the business?

>> It's a bike shop. Um he has four more

years of his commercial lease and then he's planning on closing the doors.

>> How old is he >> when it's over? >> He's 43. >> Have you discussed how you're how old?

>> I'm 37. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Let let us stop peppering you. What how can we help you, hun?

>> So I am under the assumption that you would recommend a prenup given the dramatic difference in our net worth. I

apply um this program to my life and I would

like to apply it to my marriage as well.

But >> why the two? >> I don't know. Um

I just if we have a prenup,

how do we combine our finances?

>> Okay. The prenup does not discuss the monthly operation of the household in most cases.

Most the time the prenup just says what happens to the $2 million trust fund if you would get split up.

In other words, a prenup would be something as simple as if you did do it if you did do a prenup just be as simple as he leaves the marriage with the with his $2 million trust fund and you leave the marriage with $50,000 um a net

worth. Um or you leave the marriage with everything else and he leaves with the whatever it is. I don't care. But I mean you kind of most prenups kind of start with the idea we leave with at least what we came in with.

and that's it. It's only if you leave the marriage that it does it come up.

But it's not like the money coming off the $2 million that allows him to not be profitable or productive gross is um uh

is becomes part of your household income even if you have a prenup. So that's how you combine your finances.

>> But we're not So we'll So we won't combine all of our bank accounts though.

>> Yeah, you combine all your bank accounts. Absolutely. Absolutely. His trust fund is not a bank account. His trust fund is an investment.

>> Mhm. >> Does he have any control over the trust fund at all?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, anything that's >> anything that's in and around the trust fund would would not necessarily be in your name. But even if it is in your name, the prenup would if you switch everything to your name, the prenup would just say in the event the marriage breaks up, it goes back to his name.

>> That's all it would say. It's not operationally inside the marriage. It's only what happens at the end of the marriage. Most of them, I've seen a few of them that interfere in the marriage, but most of them are what happens in the event the marriage dissolves. Simple.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> And your second question is what?

>> Well, how do I build wealth with somebody who already has wealth and isn't really motivated to build more wealth? >> Now, there's a key issue. Now you've opened up a whole another can of worms.

>> Okay, >> I'm gonna love you enough to tell you the truth. A guy that doesn't work for a

profit and isn't productive scares me.

>> If he's marrying my daughter, I'm I'm afraid.

>> And the trust fund has allowed him to not become who God intended him to be, a

productive citizen that goes out there,

leaves the cave, kills something, and drag it home. Instead, it stunted his

emotional development and he runs a bike shop. A bike shop that's not profitable

>> instead of becoming the man that God wanted him to be. That scares me. I'm looking in from the outside and I'm being a little bit harsh, but I'm short on time and I love you and I want you to hear that. I don't want to leave this being dishonest with you.

>> Thank you. It's greatly concerning to me and I would want you to deal with that.

And um I'd want I if I'm you, if I'm

your old ugly uncle Dave, I would want you guys in pre-marriage counseling to get to the bottom of some of that stuff and some of that be solved to your satisfaction. Cuz girl, you on the other

hand are a warrior princess. 78% of the

or 50, I'm sorry, 52% of the single moms live below the poverty level. You make $140,000 a year. You're self- sustaining

and raising a human.

>> You're kind of amazing.

>> I, you know, I Dave took the words out of my mouth. I was going to play the older brother card and I went on a rant last week with a very similar situation like this on this show and I said, "Ladies, don't marry doofuses."

>> And I'm not he may not be hold.

Look at Look at you all of a sudden, Mr.

N. >> Trying to give him a break. I'm not because I we've heard enough. We've heard enough. I'm not saying he's a bad person, >> but being a doofus and being a bad person are two different things. You have a great heart. And I'm just telling you, I have the exact same fear here.

This is a big deal. Three years you guys have been dating. He's been on this plan for 10 years. Uh I don't think that 2 million lasts as long as he thinks.

Uh I'm concerned about that. >> Like 2 million is a lot of money. >> It's not at 43. That's why I asked that question.

How old is he? So, uh, I echo Dave and I'm saying I think premarital counseling is an absolute must and if he doesn't play ball with that, that would be the final red flag.

And you can love somebody that is not the right person for you. And again, I'm not accusing him of anything. Uh, but I

have massive, massive red flags. Same ones Dave has. So, let me play something

back to you that I heard, Haley, and I think everybody heard it. Okay. you came into this conversation like you are the one that is not bringing as much to the

table. He's bringing everything to the table. >> And um what we're saying is it's actually the opposite. >> Yeah, that's right.

>> This guy needs to step up and earn the right to be with Haley cuz she's a freaking warrior princess.

Pretty incredible. >> Yeah. I mean, you're making 140K a year, a single mom gotten into finance. you're out there swinging the machete through the jungle, kiddo. It's pretty awesome.

And uh yeah, so so you know, he may have

$2 million, but he won't have it long if he doesn't change.

>> And so um that you you just need to be careful. Again, I all we're looking at is we we've known the situation for about a minute and 48 seconds is all. So

you you know a lot more about it than we do. We could have missed something. He we might the guy might not. But I'm not saying it's 100% off. But there are some things that are concerning enough. You've got to dig into them and get solved before you go forward with this.

>> And to encourage you, you asked how do I build wealth with >> if there's a if there's a prenup, it probably needs to include him getting a job that's profitable. >> Yeah.

>> But until we figure out if this guy >> in order to get married to me.

>> Right. >> Right. But you have to become profitable. >> You need to work the baby steps. whether or not he's in the picture or not and you've bought into that. Keep working it. You're doing really well. You got a good income. You can build wealth. You owe you in caps. You can build wealth.

Yeah.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Ryan is in Green Bay. Hey Ryan, what's up?

>> Hey Ryan.

Ryan, you're on the air. >> Hey, Ryan.

>> Bye. All right. Uh Chris is in Dayton,

Ohio. Hey, Chris. What's up?

>> Hi. Uh I was on baby step two, but then

life happened and I had to dip into my step one savings.

>> Okay. >> Should I replenish that and then get back on track with my debt payments?

>> Yes.

And also my second question, I'm really

not looking forward to this day, but a

lot of my family members are getting older and I stand to inherit probably about six figures when that time comes

for them.

And I'm disabled. So, the best thing I can think to do with it is stick it into a ABLE account.

Uh, would you have any other advice as

far as what to do with it? I don't have any car payment or mortgage.

>> Are you receiving some kind of government assistance that would be affected if you got 100K?

>> Uh, no. Not up to 100K. I've got SSI and

Medicaid and food stamps, but with this ABLE account, it wouldn't count as a resource. >> Yeah, I know that that but I was asking why you were using the ABLE account because you were taking food stamps in SSI. Okay. All right. And and and

welfare, you said, too, right?

>> Medicaid. >> Medicaid. Medicaid. Yeah. Okay. All right. What's the nature of your disability, Chris?

>> I was born legally blind.

>> Okay. All right. Wow. All right. Um,

yeah. I'm trying to think what I would do with the ABLE account. I probably would just try to get some mutual funds and set it in that and let it create income for you from the ABLE account. And I think you can do that.

>> I haven't I haven't I haven't dipped into those things in a while. I know what they're for and I kind of know what they are, but I'm not an expert on it.

And so, uh, I would have you sit down with, uh, talk to one of our smart investor pros, uh, and and the people that we have that we endorse to help people with investing

and they will know how to structure your ABLE account for that. For those of you who don't know, if you're receiving governmental assistance, if you have money in an ABLE account up to a certain amount, if you label the account as an ABLE account, it has to do with protecting uh keeping you from losing your government benefits if you are disabled. That's the purpose of it.

That's how it's designed and what it is in general. It's it's a it's a uh a legal proper way to uh have some assets

and not, you know, not in her case not lose the the help that she's getting.

So, wow. Jay's in Alabama. Hi, Jay. How

are you? >> I'm better than I deserve. Dave, how are you, sir? >> Just the same. How can we help?

>> All right. Uh, I I got a lot to unpack.

Um, it's a rather happy story. My wife and I have royally kicked butt. I think

we've done good, but I feel like we need to tweak it a little bit because we both

we do we both have great jobs. We love them, but we don't think we're going to be able to do this till we retire in our late 60s or 70s. And we're trying to trying to figure out how to expedite speeding up so we can retire maybe in our mid50s.

>> All right.

>> So, I don't I don't know if that involves >> How much have you got? How much have you got in investments?

>> 1.1 million.

>> Okay. Good lick. Good for you. And what's your household income today?

475,000 a year. >> Yo, and how much of that's you? How much of that's her?

>> Um, she is about 350 and I'm the rest.

>> So, you're 175. Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. And what does she do for a living? >> Uh, we both work in medicine.

>> I was going to guess. Okay, cool. Good for y'all. >> But she didn't get Dr.

>> Well done. Yeah, apparently you got a good net worth and a great great income.

Um, how much of the 1.1 is in retirement

accounts?

>> Uh, about 800.

>> Okay. What's the other 300 in?

>> I got about 120 in the brokerage account

that I uh invest in and then the rest is

home equity. >> Okay. And and what's your um ages?

Uh, I'm I'm 45. She's 43.

>> Okay. All right. So, what you would do

is to Is your home paid off?

>> No, sir. We We are paying extra on it to knock it down. >> Yeah. What do you owe on it?

>> Uh, we owe about 600 on it.

>> Okay. Uh if you got a paid for home and you built some money in some nonretirement mutual funds, that's what uh people in the financial world call a bridge fund.

It bridges from where the from the time you want to quit to 59 and a half.

>> Exactly. That's what That's what I'm looking for. That That's >> Well, listen, you don't need as much if the house is paid for.

>> Yes, sir. Well, our our long-term we might have a kind of a strange long-term plan, but we we both have are very well

traveled and we're we want to once we get to that age, we're going to we'd like to sell the house, take the equity we get from selling the house, buy a smaller house with very, you know, place that we ain't got to cut the grass and stuff like that. And we actually want to spend about half the year in Southeast Asia because we've we've been there many times and love the vibe. So, uh, it's much cheaper to rent a place there.

>> Yeah. Let me ask you this.

>> Um, it occurs to me that you fairly

easily could sleepwalk into half of this income

working part-time, even if you were doing some of it in Southeast Asia.

>> Uh, my my job currently is remote, but to be honest with you, we have no problem adjusting our lifestyle. >> No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying you have the ability to produce an incredible income and you could probably do that with with 10% of

the strain you have now.

>> You could probably between the two of you pull in a couple of hundred.

>> It's possible. >> Oh, I think it >> both uh you know, >> I think you're going to have to reimagine what you do, but yeah, >> right. We're just both getting we see the writing on the wall and we just want to we want to do the right thing. Pay pay off our house or at least knock it down a lot. I would get the house paid off and I would build some money and bridge. >> Is this 10 years? Did I hear 55? You guys want to be checked out?

>> Prop 55 56. We're looking at, you know,

say 20 36, you know.

>> Well, the 1.1 will be almost 3 million by then if you leave it alone.

>> Okay. All right. >> And you would have bridge on top of that and you'd have the paid for house. and

you've got the potential to do something, not nothing the rest of your

life and probably generate a couple of bills doing that, >> right? >> There's a lot of different ways to to roll into that 54 55 year old point

>> and uh you're going to be in really really good shape. You you're right. You have kicked butt. You're doing really well. The main place you've kicked butt though is your income.

Well, also I on our very we laughed, but

on our very first date, I asked her. I said, 'I need to know how much student loans you got, and she said, "No." And I said, "All right, there'll be a second date." >> Now, hearing that story, we all knew you outkicked your coverage when you told us about your wife, but now this is a this is a woman with poor judgment. Good for you, sir. You did well.

>> You know, I'm >> You're a real romantic, buddy. I'm just saying. Yeah, you're real sweat. I know how to sweep a girl off. >> Sweep her right off her feet. You got any student loans, baby?

>> And then he declares there will be a second date. >> Okay, we'll go out again. You get the pleasure of my company one more time. Uh I I love the advice you gave uh there, Dave. And I think there's a bigger lesson for our audience. We know from all kinds of data, you can go research this yourself, that when a person completely stops work altogether, there's got to be some purpose beyond uh

just retiring from a job. And in this case, I love what you recommend here, which they can travel the globe, do whatever they want. Uh stay involved a little bit, just enough to maybe cash flow all this and not eat into that retirement. And I just think that's something to think about this idea of I'm going to stop cold turkey and just do nothing but hang out.

That's not what he was saying. But uh >> the data is really scary about how many are dead in six months. >> It is. And so finding some purposeful work, even if it's volunteering or >> doctors without Yeah.

Yeah, I mean you could go, you know, let's go >> medical doctors in Southeast Asia would be at a premium health. >> That's exactly right. So great, great point. >> I mean, that's what I was thinking.

>> Uh yeah, this idea that I'm going fishing uh for the next 45 years is

probably not a plan.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of the new show Front Row Seat, which is a massive hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Ryan is with us in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hey Ryan, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, so kind of similar story maybe to

how you started out. Um, right now I got

1.8 million in debt.

um that uh rental portfolio is worth

4.4. Um that's a conservative estimate

off of what realators would tell me they

would list for.

Um currently that that portfolio puts

out approximately

um at a low end $5,000 a month. at a

high end $19,000 a month because we're

heavily invested in commercial. Um so

right now with uh you know postco we're

we're a little behind on the commercial uh leases.

>> Okay. >> Um just trying to think of like what but

so I I had a home run early on. I sold a

building that I bought for 426.

I sold that building for 1.6.

Um, and then I did a 1031 exchange on

two of the buildings.

>> Okay. >> That I currently hold. >> Okay. How can we help?

>> Well, I don't know.

>> What are you asking?

>> Well, I'm not sure. you know, um

I'm not sure. Um I guess I I have 1.8

million in debt. I have a portfolio of

4.4. >> And your rate of return on that portfolio sucks.

>> Yeah, it's not great. >> No, it's horrible. >> It's not.

>> Do you want to get out of debt, Ryan? Do you want to get out of debt?

>> I do. I do.

>> Okay. No, you're still you're still the guy that hit the slot machine once and so you keep putting quarters in the stupid thing. >> You had that one hit and did that 1031 made bank and ever since then you've been putting quarters back in the machine trying to do it again and none of the rest of them did that.

>> Well, no. I Yes. Yes. More or less. Yes,

I will agree with you. But I have I I have hit more than once. >> How old are you? I >> I'm 38 years old. I >> Where do you want to be when you're 58?

I uh >> you want 10x this or you want what do you want? >> Yeah, I want to I want to 10x this, man.

I want to >> Okay. >> I want to I want to pay off my home that is worth a million dollars, but I have a $360 note. Um I got

>> But I I'm just telling you I don't want to 10x your portfolio.

>> Your rate of return is awful, sir. When you tell me you're getting an NOI of $60,000 to $19,000 on an asset base this high, your rate of return, your your ROI straight up mathematics, it's horrible.

>> 3.8. It's 3.8.

>> I know, but your when you make $60,000 as a return on 3.8, I mean, that's horrendously bad. You should be making a half million dollars on that.

>> Correct. >> Yeah, absolutely. Correct.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I don't. >> So, so you've got to figure out why you these rate these properties are not giving ROI and shed yourself of the

properties that are not giving you a return and build a model portfolio where

you're getting in in real estate, you need a cash on cash in residential of 8 to 10 neti,

net operating income, 8 to 10% cash on cash annually.

Okay? And on in addition to that, the

thing needs to be going up in value. And in addition to that, you need to be taking the tax depreciations that that the depreciation schedules with the IRS allows. All of those things together give you north of 15 to 20%. On a commercial, you ought to be making 10 to 12 cash on cash. Um our ours does that.

And um it's not rocket surgery to do it.

But you've just been buying crap, man.

And you didn't think anything about the debt aspect. And so the debt on some of these is eating your lunch because the

rents are not commensurate with the values and with the debt service you're carrying. And that's what's destroying your ROI. So you need to get down inside of that and figure out which of these things you want to and create an ideal portfolio that's going to be 8 to 10 on residential and 10 to 12 on commercial

cash on cash and in properties that are

going up in value. those are the ones you want to expand owning and the others you want to get rid of. And so >> there's the playbook right there. >> And you you adjust it and and that's what's going on. But you've fallen backward into this thinking that all real estate's good. All real estate's not good. Some of it sucks. And you've got some that sucks and some of it's leverage too high. Some of it you got too much debt on and it's pulling you down. And um so yeah, I if I'm you,

that's what I'm looking for. And in the process of doing that over the next 5 years, I'm going to sell off enough of it and use enough of my income to beim become 100% debtree. That's where I would be going. But I don't think you're going to do that because I think you like borrowing money.

So I'm not sure where you're going to end up exactly. I hope you make it. Hope you do for your sake.

Would you get out of the rental game altogether and have him invest that?

He's a young guy. He's like 37.

>> Yeah. I mean, he'd be better off.

>> That's what I think. >> If you just if you did a 100% slate clean and dropped it all in mutual funds, you make more money than you're making now. >> That's where my head was going. >> Yeah.

Because you got $2 million in mutual funds then and you're making $200,000 a year, >> right? >> You know, and that and you're not doing anything to do that. You don't have to collect rent. You don't have to replace water heaters.

Roof doesn't leak. You know, all that. >> It's a really healthy reset for a guy his age with kids. >> Not sure I would go that far.

Instead, I'd probably cherrypick it and take about three years and clean up most of it.

>> That's great. >> And then get out of the debt business because that's what's part of what's bringing you down here. The other part is is you're >> you're still trying to replicate that one deal. >> So, hit those numbers again for people because too many people watching Tik Toks and reels. So, what is the ROI you're looking for on commercial versus residential? The stuff that you own or else you say it's not worth having.

>> I pay cash, >> right? And so, I want to make if I put a half million dollars in a house, we don't buy houses anymore, but when we buy, I got a bunch of them still. Well, I got rid of all of them, but um but on the houses that we own, the residential single families that we own, um we look

at what we paid for it, what it's worth

in the market, and we want an 8 to 10%

cash on cash after all expenses are paid. Rent minus expenses is net operating income. We want to see a cash on cash of 8 to 10%. If you get that and

you have appreciation in value and you take the depreciation, those three things together are called the internal rate of return, the IRR, and those will be north of 15 17% on your residentials,

>> which is a lot better return than a mutual fund, but it's a lot more hassle, >> right, >> than on our commercial stuff, we're making uh anywhere from 10 to 14% cash on cash. And so, we're seeing most of our our IRRs, our internal rates return up in the 20s on those. >> Wow. So, we're making serious money on those commercials.

Um, but because commercial property does that, but it's a lot bigger property and again, it's a lot more cash tied up in them. So, those are the processes you've got to go through to get there. You got to just decide what you're doing. Um, cuz if I can if I can't make 8 to 10 when I can make 12 on a mutual fund, >> right, why am I going through all this hassle?

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

>> They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Reed is with us in New Jersey. Hi, Reed.

How are you? >> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Um, so I'm getting married in April and

I have about $15,000 worth of student loan debt and I've saved up about

$17,000. Um, and that's not including my 401k and my investments and I'm wondering if I >> How much is in your non 401k investments?

>> I have 17,000 in a high yield savings account. Um, not including the 401k.

>> Okay. And not including the other 17,000?

No, there's just one 17,000.

>> You said I'm sorry. So, you have savings of 17. You have 15 in a student loan.

>> And then you said I have investments and a 401k.

>> Yes. >> Okay. The 401k, I understand. What are

the investments that are not in the 401k?

>> Um, I have about $5,000 in an IRA.

>> Okay. All right. Do you have any investments that are not in a retirement account other than the 17 in the high yield savings?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Trying to make sure I had the clear picture. Okay. Because if if I heard 20,000 laying in a mutual fund over there that wasn't retirement, that changes the picture. You follow me, >> right? >> That's what I was looking for. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What do you make?

>> Um 120 before taxes.

>> Good for you.

>> Thank you.

What have you been spending it all on?

>> Um, I living expenses in New Jersey and

I travel back and forth a lot between New Jersey and Atlanta to help take care of my mom. She has MS, so it's a little bit difficult to save, but I'm putting away at least $500 a month, >> which is 6,000 a year out of 120,000.

That's not much.

>> No, it's not. >> Okay. So, you've not been very intentional and careful and controlling with this great income that you have um until now

when you start focusing on it recently.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Not trying to blame you. I'm just trying to make sure I get the picture of what your what your what the story arc of your behavior is because that's going to that affects my answer. So, here so the good news is you kind of just started all this stuff and you probably can do a lot better than 500 bucks a month. So if you took the 15 of the 17

paid off the student loan and really bear down on the budget, you probably could put the 15 back pretty quick.

>> Yes, we are planning a wedding. Um >> Okay. Are you paying for part of that?

>> Yes, for about half of it.

>> How much?

>> Um 10,000 total is our our budget for that. >> Okay. So you need five.

>> No, I'm sorry. Is my budget. So that's 50% of the wedding. >> Oh, okay. 10. Okay. All right. So that

changes the discussion again. Okay. And does he have uh debt? What's his financial condition?

>> Um my fiance has no debt other than the condo that we live in.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Well, um so number one, as long as you do it

between now and April or or as soon as you get back from the honeymoon, I don't care. You're still going to get to where you need to go. More than anything, what I'm wanting to do is create a behavior pattern that's realistic that you can lean into and take all the way into your marriage. That's a positive behavior pattern.

Okay? Because you make good money and you don't have much to show for it. So that's why you're asking these wonderful questions because you want to do something better. You want to you want to have something to show for it.

>> Yes, it it just it becomes pretty challenging with the amount I have to fly and helping my parents out.

Yeah. Well, it um

and that also is not the only reason.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> Okay. All right. The um All right. Uh

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When is the wedding? April.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. To the extent that you can be

confident that you can build the 10,000 and then rebuild the other 15, I need $25,000 by

April.

Okay. To the extent you can be confident of that,

can't be confident of that because you're just starting. All right. So, I was going to I was going to give you an answer that I'm not liking now.

>> Yeah. as I said crunching those numbers.

>> So, no, I'm going to take 10,000 of your

17 and move it to a separate savings account. And the wedding is now funded.

Pressures off.

>> Yep. >> Okay. And then I'm going to take 5,000

and throw it at the debt, leaving you 2,000 or three 6,000 and throw it at the debt, leaving you $1,000 in the account.

And then I'm going to get on a tight beans and rice, rice and beans budget.

And my You have no debt at that point, correct? >> Correct. >> No, no, no. You still have the student loan debt cuz we only put six towards the 15. So, we got 9,000. We got to tear into that nine and then we got to rebuild the emergency fund by the

wedding, but the wedding pressure is off. We've got the 10,000 sitting there to do that. We're throwing 6,000. I need $9,000 and I need to rebuild my u

emergency fund by April. You can do that. making 120. If you get on the every dollar budget and you really start pounding it and you say, "I'm not going out to eat. I'm not spending money. We're not going over this wedding budget. That's it. That's a whole budget, not a dime more. We're picking out a dress that fits within that, a videographer, and a reception that fits within the 20 budget. And buddy, you putting up the 10. He can put up the 10.

He's going to be able to do that. Sounds like sound like you guys got a good match here." Um, so yeah, that's what

I'm doing. Oh, let me let me recap. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get not too many things coming at you to put pressure on you. The only pressure is getting out of the debt now because we got the wedding financed. You see what I did, >> right? >> Yes. >> But then you've got to create the people

uh Reed that changed their lives doing this stuff are the ones that create this internal uh positive anger. It's like I've had

it. I'm sick of making this much money and I got nothing. Yeah, I got this expenses running back forth through Atlanta, but I got nothing and I'm sick of this and I'm going to do whatever it takes that's moral and legal to change that in the person in my mirror. And I'm

freaking changing. I mean, you got to get this thing going, right? And when you get that going, then you're going to be okay. Uh, but you can wander into debt. You can't wander out. You got to get passionate about it. And that causes you to sacrifice deeply to hit the goals. So 10,000 in an account, 6,000

leaving 1,000 in your savings account.

No more money going into your 401k. Stop it temporarily. Stop everything temporarily. Your life is now on hold till you get the other 9,000 student loans paid off. And your life is not on hold until you finish that emergency fund rebuilding it to 10 or $15,000. So

when you come home from the honeymoon, you have $15,000 cash, no debt on the

wedding, and no debt, and you make 120.

That feels good.

That's worth pushing for. Yeah. And that's a burn the ships mentality, which is what you need at this point. It's now I have no margin, but instead of stressing out over the wedding, we're just, hey, I don't like the fact that I don't have an emergency fund. That's a very different vibe. That motivates you very clearly. I love that. All conviction at this point. >> Yeah. I just I I create systems that

push me to do what I want me to do.

>> Yes. Right. I put myself in those positions, right? It's one of the reasons I love stuff like automatic draft on your checking account going into your investments >> or the for one of the reasons the 401k has caused more people to build wealth than just about anything else because it's automatic.

Anything I can do to put a system around me that automates my discipline. >> Well, tell everybody why you I know what you did, but what's the psychology behind saying, "All right, we're going to fund the wedding." Why'd you tell her to do that? Because that's I know what you did.

>> Can't focus on two things at once.

>> Yeah. >> And um one of them is going to suffer.

>> Yeah. The wedding is so important to her. It's such a huge deal that if Dave didn't have her do that, what happens is she starts to go, "Well, the wedding is super important, super important. I can't do both." And it kills any momentum on on getting rid of the debt.

This way, you give her a full >> Instead, I've got a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train.

>> Brilliant. >> Even if it's a pin light. >> That's right. There's a light there. >> That's right. >> And it's a singular a singular focus point. >> And when you're trying to modify behaviors, you look for a singular focus point and lean in on that with visceral passionate craziness.

>> And then you can create this permanent change in your brain. And and you keep and you rock on. Then you reset who you are is what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> Folks, when we get you out of debt, the getting out of debt is not the important thing that happened. It's what you became. >> Yeah. >> While you were getting out of debt.

That's the important thing that happened.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from David in Massachusetts. My father suddenly passed away recently and did not make the will he always planned to create. He owned five properties and only two have mortgages.

He also owned a business with a partner which brings in close to 1 million in residuals annually. My mother is not in the picture and I have an older brother who has a substance abuse problem. My father did not inherit any money from his parents and built all this from the ground up. So, I want to honor him by making sure none of this goes to waste.

My brother will waste away his half of the inheritance on drugs if he gets access to it. My name will be the only one on the death certificate, and our attorney will file for me to be the head of his estate.

Uh, you need to seek legal counsel that really knows what they're doing. No, I doubt it. I think he's going to get his lump sum unless he's declared incompetent by the court, unable to take care of his own affairs. And just being stupid or doing drugs is not going to cause that to happen. Stupid, immature drug person is not going to that's not incompetent by legal terms. Um, my

mother's not in the picture. Uh, she is

now.

if you're if they were married uh or if they are if they were married at the time of his death, she's very much in the picture whether you want her to be or not. Um so again, we're not

attorneys in Massachusetts, so you need legal advice in Massachusetts where you are. And um my suspicion is Massachusetts has some wicked crazy

probate laws uh because there's some other stuff on the books there that's wild. And so wouldn't wouldn't surprise me a bit, but uh you need to find out

what you're dealing with. Okay? So in most states, if your mother is alive and they're still married, she's going to get at

least half of these assets, whether you wanted her to or anybody else wanted her to. Um and your brother, if not, if

she's dead or they're divorced and gone or whatever, and she's really not in the picture legally, then you and your brother are going to get half each. And I'm not aware of anything you can do to legally prevent your brother from getting his half.

Um, now what I would do if that's the case,

when you sit down with your attorney, is I would sit down with your brother and say, "Look, I love you. Dad loved you. Uh, I don't

want you to use this to OD.

I don't want you to use this and have nothing to show for it later. If you would allow me to manage your half for

you >> until you get through these this part of your life, I will do that as a favor to you because I'm very afraid that you're going to end up with nothing. What do you think? And see what he says.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and again, what percentage of guys

in this situation are going to go, "Oh, yeah. Why don't you take care?" None.

But it's worth asking. But that's probably persuasion is probably your only technique.

Yeah, tough situation. So sorry for your loss. >> Yeah. What does this illustrate?

Illustrates everyone needs a will.

>> Period. And here's why. What you what

this guy did when he died suddenly

is he has put a curse on his two sons.

He left them with a mess because he

didn't do a will. And so now you've got

one son trying to navigate the older brother trying to navigate the prodal and try to do what dad wanted and try to

think through and not there's no direction and there's no legal binding anything. If your dad had simply left half of this in a trust for your brother, it would have taken you an hour and a half to do that will maximum.

And if he'd left half of it in the trust for your brother, with you as the trustee to manage it, and upon such time as your brother exemplified positive behaviors, you release the trust to his control, which would be a fairly normal thing where you've got an immature kid or a kid doing drugs or whatever, you're going to hold it for him, but not let him have it. Um, it would take it just, you know, just so those of you that are out there, do your freaking will if you love the people that you're going to leave behind because you just you screw up everything for the people you leave behind by not doing it.

act of love to do your estate planning

because now this poor guy David has got this whole thing is sitting on his shoulders. He's the only adult in the story. Yeah.

>> Just aggravates the pee out of me. So, this is millions of dollars we're dealing with here. >> Yeah. >> And by the way, there's a partner in a business he was running with him that doesn't know what to do, too. >> And I'm sure there's no freaking plan there either. So, you guys, I don't care

if you got two nickels and a kid. You need a will cuz the kid is going to be controlled by the state if you don't have a will that dictates who's going to take care of your kid. You going to leave that up to the DMV people? The people that run the DMV? That's the level of competence you have when you're dealing with the state? No, I'm not leaving that up to them. No, I'm not leaving anything up to the government to decide anything because I was too trifling to get my dad gum work done.

And getting your will done is being an adult and getting your work done. Oh man, poor David. I'm so sorry, David.

But I tell you what, if you want to if you have a a bunch of people, a bunch of kids that you don't like, >> and you want to you want to you want to really mess up the next 10 years of their life, leave about $2 million with no instructions and a bunch of scraps of paper laying around of what they thought you wanted >> and watch them fight through it. And all the lawyers get the $2 million over the next 10 years and nobody in the family talks to each other the rest of their lives.

>> That's right. Yep. It's like dropping a

bomb off in the middle of a >> a family. >> Yeah.

>> It's exactly what it does. So, just aggravating.

David, I'm sorry you're facing that. Um, but I I wouldn't burn a ton of calories on your brother. It's not his fault.

It's not his problem. He's his problem.

He's what's known as an adult. And I wouldn't burn a ton of calories on anything except just getting this thing settled and and moving your part over to the side, and you go live your life like a responsible human being. And oh, by the way, get a will.

Did I mention that? Rebecca's in San Diego. Hi, Rebecca. What's up?

>> Hello. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, um, my mother inherited my great-g

grandandmother's property that has two houses. Unfortunately, both of them need

significant amount of work that my mother cannot afford to do. Um, if we

were to move there, it'd be five generations on this land. So, we are trying to do what we can to not have to sell it off. Uh, my husband and I do have a down payment saved to buy a house. Um, but we were thinking instead that we could move into the bigger house. We've got two kids and another one on the way. Um, use our down payment

to fix up that house and live in it and have um, no debt, you know, no house payment. and my mom would take on the smaller house that needs less work and better suitable for um just her by herself single. She recently decided she

wanted to only be the sole land owner.

We wouldn't be put on the deed um or anything legally. >> That settles it. I'm not going.

>> She wants us to pay $800 on top of um

about $100,000 we would be putting into preparing the house and the property.

>> I'm not going.

That's what I said. But no, >> you don't put $100,000 in somebody else's house. Let's pretend, Rebecca, that you were my renter and you were my tenant and I said, "Hey, why don't you renovate my house?" >> You would look at me like, "You're an idiot. I'm not putting $100,000 in your house, Dave. Why would a renter do that?" >> Yes. >> Don't do this. Sorry, Mom. This isn't going to work out. We're going to have to just go buy a house somewhere else. And I hope this all works out for you.

>> Yeah. family um said that cuz one day I

would possibly inherit my siblings that children should take care of >> I'll deal with it when I inherit it. Right now I'm not doing a thing. >> Yeah, you already don't like this and you're still trying to figure this out. >> Your mom has set up a trick bag here.

You need to run.

This is a bad vibe. Bad juju, kiddo.

Really bad. You need to run. This is a trick bag. She likes to mess with people

and I can see the strings from here. You need to run run run run.

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If you died tomorrow, how much would your family need to keep the lights on?

How would they pay the mortgage? How would they buy groceries? If anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance.

And how do you choose from all the options out there? Well, life insurance is term life is the only kind that does everything you want, which is replace your income for the lowest possible cost. Um, and we've recommended only

term life insurance for the last 35 years here on the air.

You need a policy worth about 10 to 12 times your annual income. And the perfect term length, we think, uh, is a 15 to a 20-year level term policy, meaning the premium stays the same. For more info and resources, use our free

term life insurance guide. You can go to

ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide.

It's free. Or click the link in the show notes. Speaking of life insurance, Kyle is with us with a life insurance question. Look at that. Hey, Kyle in Tampa. What's up?

>> Good. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Yeah. So, um I think we're doing good on our savings for retirement. Um but we

have like a large life and whole life

that we got kind of sold on. And my

wife, she doesn't agree with giving it up, but I do. And now it's kind of like

a catch 22 where I think we have enough,

but I just want to give it up kind of just for potential growth.

>> Okay. >> So, it's like $800,000 in cash value.

>> Mhm. >> Potential. It could be maybe. I looked into the end like >> You currently have cash value of 800K.

>> Yes. >> Are you sure?

>> Yes. How much did you put into this?

>> We put a lot of money into this. I don't

know. We just kind of got caught up into it. I think it was like 10 years ago.

>> So, what is the face value? What's the payout on death >> at this moment? 1.2 for me, 2.3 for her.

>> Okay. All right. And what do you make?

>> 46.

>> Uh, I don't make them together. We make

about 325. What do you make?

>> About 55.

>> And what does she make?

>> About 275.

>> Okay. All right. All right. She a doc.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. That's who they go after. Okay. Um

>> Yes. And that's kind of >> She's a target. She's a target. They worked all her and they worked all her buddies. >> Um Yeah. You got screwed >> and you're getting screwed every day that you keep it. So, uh, do you you said I think we've got enough. I mean, what do you have a large net worth or something?

>> I mean, yeah. What is your worth? Okay.

I mean, it's it's probably like, uh, 3

million. >> Okay. Invested in what? >> And that's not including that policy.

It's probably like >> 1.5 for houses and then about 1.4 for just

401k things. >> Okay. And then I have 800,000 of this

and I'm just kind of like >> I got you. All right. Well, let me kind of give you you can play this back. You can play this back for her. Okay.

>> Docs are targeted by whole life guys.

>> They're they're they're the u they're the sweet spot for those guys that sell this crap. It is one of the worst

financial products in the world.

It's absolutely horrendous. No one in the entire financial world believes in whole life life insurance as a good product except the people that sell it.

All the rest of us, all the financial planning community, all the investment community, all the uh estate planning community, unless they're involved in the whole life business, they do not believe in it and they tell people not to do it. All of us have abandoned this

product because it's not just bad. It's one of the worst. It's the payday lender of the insurance world. It's how bad it is.

This is not a medium product. This is a

product that absolutely is horrendous.

Okay. Now, let me walk you through why

and then we can then you guys can go home and you can talk about this after you play this back because it'll be on the podcast. Okay. So, >> Okay. Life insurance has one possible

need in a scenario like you're in and

that is to replace lost income if one of

you dies and the rest of you are dependent on that person. You do not have a large enough estate to have an estate tax problem. And so there is no you have zero need for life insurance for that purpose. You got to get to $25 million before you have to worry about an estate tax problem. I mean, you're a long way from $25 million. All right.

>> Mhm. >> So, you don't have an estate tax problem at all. Not even close. Nor are you going to have one anytime soon. Um, now,

so, but what you do need life insurance for is if you wanted to replace the

income. Now, we replace her income. You would need about 10 times that. So, you would take about 2.5 to $3 million,

probably $3 million policy on her. and we'd take about 10 times on you. So, we'd take up 750,000 on you just to round up. Okay? You could do that at your age for nothing. The cost of a pizza if you don't smoke and you're not obese.

If you're not fat and you don't smoke, life insurance costs almost nothing.

It's ridiculously inexpensive. Like the cost of a pizza. Well, in your case, this many millions, probably three pizzas, but it's real, really no money compared to the 800 grand we're talking about. All right.

Now, here's the problem. You put so much money into this thing. If she dies, you

know what? They're going to pay 2.3 million. You know what happened to the 800,000? They're going to keep it.

Cash value dies with you.

>> This is a dangerous situation because you guys have gotten screwed so bad. So,

if I were you, I would cash this out really fast. >> And let me and let me say like hers is 500 and mine's 300. So, we we have two

different policies. >> That's okay. I'd cash it out real fast.

>> You was to just get rid of >> I got both of them. I'd be done by by the end of the day cuz if one of you dies without life insurance in the next 60 days and you've got $3 million left to live on, I think you're going to be okay.

>> Yeah, that's what I told her.

>> All right. So, you're self-insured. If you want to go buy some term insurance, price it out with Xander insurance. It doesn't cost nothing >> if you want some extra insurance. But right now, you've got 3 million. Oh, wait a minute. No, you've got uh almost 4 million counting this $800,000, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And I think you guys, if one of you dies, the other one can make it on $4 million.

>> Yeah. >> So, you're selfinsured.

>> Just taking this 800,000 and putting into like a mutual fund. You should have put it in a good investment. Yeah, absolutely. One that goes up in value.

Cash value has an average rate of return nationally of 1.26%.

1%.

You're making nothing. This is costing you 100 grand a year in lost opportunity. What it should be growing.

Awful. Absolutely awful. So, no, you she

needs to tell this life insurance guy to jump off a cliff and uh he screwed you

guys bad. Really bad. And I can name the

company probably.

>> Uhoh. Why are doctors uh ground zero for

this? Uh this >> they make a lot of money and they feel all fancy because they're new doctors and they have no knowledge of finances at all. They're the worst with money with the possible exception of actors and country music stars.

Do MDs are horrendous with their money.

>> There's a handful of country music stars do a really good job. There's a handful of doctors do a really good job. There's a handful of NFL players do a really good job and the rest of them are financial morons. And so these guys

weigh in on these guys who are all puffed up because I just got my MD and these gals and they're feeling all good about themselves because they just got to be a doc. and they swoop in just about that time, about the time you're making a little money and they go, "Oh, well, you need whole life life insurance." So,

horrible, horrible, horrible product.

Yeah, your m and I don't care. I'll sell either one. You do whatever you want to do. But if I woke up in your shoes by the end of the week, I'd have my 800K in my hand and I'd be sitting down with a Smart Investor Pro and opening up a good mutual fund and making 10 12% on this money instead of 1%.

and when I die, they don't keep it. There's an idea. And if you want some life insurance in addition to your $4 million net worth at that point, just call Xander insurance and get you some insurance. Um, you can get like again 46 years old, if you're not obese and you don't smoke, you can get some insurance.

It's really not that much.

Matter of fact, she's really okay if I die. I kind of need to sleep with one eye open.

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm

Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and the host of the new Ramsay runaway hit called Front Row Seat. Long form interviewing with uh people who really know how to do life well. You'll learn a lot if you join him on front row seat. Our phone number here is8825-55225.

Jessica's in Birmingham. Hey Jessica, what's up in your world?

>> Hey guys, I feel so blessed to talk to you today. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Well, thank you. How can we help?

Okay, so I run a solo aesthetic skincare

business that grosses around 85,000 a year, but after expenses, I only bring home about 24,000. My husband and I are

on baby step two. I do really love my

business. I love my clients, but I do have a lot going on in my life right now, and I just do not have the drive to

keep pushing and building my business the way that I have in the past. Um, I'm

just I'm just tired. But, uh, my question is, should I

take a full-time job for a year to pay off all of our debt and while I do that, keep the business open for like one to four days a month? >> Yes. >> And then go, okay. Okay.

>> I'm tired. I don't make any money.

>> Yeah.

>> It's a formula, right? What would you make if you did the exact same thing you're doing the aesthetic skin care for your clients? If you're doing that for somebody else and you were just getting paid for your time, what would you make?

>> Easily double or triple.

>> Yeah, that's the answer.

>> Yeah. >> As long as they allow you to keep your clients. >> Yeah. That's that's the problem is if I worked for another um >> you'd have to give up the client's conflict of interest.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So, what I was thinking was um doing something similar in the industry like working in sales for a brand or something like that that wouldn't be directly a conflict of interest. >> Would you make as much as would you make as much as if you did your actual craft?

>> Yeah, I'm sure I could probably if I got

into sales and worked for like a skincare brand, I could probably bring anywhere from 70 to 100 in a year. then

do it.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, it's a no-brainer.

Meanwhile, Meanwhile, consider cons con

begin to read and study business.

>> Yes, sir. >> Because you're a classic accidental

entrepreneur.

Um here here's what we find when we're working with our entrepreneurial clients in Entree Leadership and we coach about 10,000 small businesses.

There's a vast difference between being good at your skill and running a

business that accomplishes your skill.

>> Yeah, >> you are good at your craft of helping people with their skin. You suck at running a business.

>> Thanks. >> It's okay. You can do it. You can learn how though. It's a learned skill, business acumen, because you're not making any profit. We know this because you should you just talking to you for a few minutes, you're obviously bright.

You're articulate. I think you're right.

I think you could go make 100k selling just after talking to you. I actually believe you. All right. Now, if you're all of those things and you're not making at least that doing this craft that you're good at, it's a business problem.

>> Yeah. >> And so, learn the business part. Let me tell recommend a couple books to you. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Business You Love, my latest number one bestseller.

I'll give you a copy of it. Another book I'm going to recommend is by a friend of mine named Michael Gerber.

>> And it is learning to work on your business, not just in your business.

>> Okay? So, what we run into all the time, Jessica, and I tell them exactly the same thing I just told you, a guy who knows how to work on heating and air, and he's doing a really good job fixing people's heating and air, replacing their broken heating and air, all that kind of stuff, an HVAC guy, and he decides, I'm going to open my own thing, and he gets a truck, and he leaves his job and he goes into business fixing heating and air.

>> Mhm. and he ends up exactly where you are. Instead of making 80,000 working for somebody else fixing heating and air, he ends up making 20,000 with his own truck and he's miserable.

>> And so, but that the only difference there is pricing and marketing and accounting and growing the business,

understanding the parts of a business and growing a business. And you can reset, relaunch four years from now with

some knowledge that you don't have now on how to run a business. Hire three

people that do skin care and you do some

skin care and you could make 150, but

you've got to have those pieces. You got to have those other tools in your belt you don't have right now. And right now you just need some money and you're tired. >> Yes, sir.

>> Do you want to run a business long term after Dave gave you that pep talk? It's a great one, by the way. And he's right.

Do you want to run a business on the other side of this debt elimination and how tired you are?

No, I really do. I I absolutely love entrepreneurship that we just have a lot going on in our family right now. So, that's the reason I'm tired. But I I I love I love >> No, let me just tell you, if you go to work every day and you make 24,000, you're tired. >> Yeah, that's right. >> You go to work every day and you make 240,000, you're not as tired.

>> That's true. >> That's true. >> It's just It's hard. I mean, you're just in a slog. >> Yeah. >> And we call it the treadmill stage of business. You feel like you're on a treadmill. And you when you're on a treadmill, it's more tiring than running down the road because you're not getting anywhere.

>> It's just tiring and it's emotionally exhausting because the scenery does not change. >> And that that's part of the thing. And I've been there myself running hours over the years in years past. So I think you're amazing and I think you this is not a permanent >> solution. It's a solution for three to five years.

>> Go make you some money. Get not tired.

>> That's right. you're going to come back on the other side of this and you're still an entrepreneur. So don't let the doubting voices, you know, kind of win the day here as you take a break because a lot of entrepreneurs refuse to do what you're actually doing, which is a you raised your hand and said, "Dave, Ken, I need some help." Number one. Number two, uh you you've taken it and said, "Okay, it doesn't mean I'm a big giant failure." Because you're not.

And you're going to pause and you're going to learn during the pause. And I think you come back and you're way more successful. I'm very excited for you. This is not this is not the end of the story.

It's just another chapter. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. Kelly, I don't know if we've got E-Myth in stock. If we do, send her one.

If we don't, you'll have to get it yourself, Jessica. But, um, I mean, there's this thing called Amazon. They'll put one on your front porch for I can get it there anyway. But, E-Myth by Michael Gerber.

You'll like it. And, uh, it's a classic in the business literature realm, and we'll send you a copy of mine, uh, as a gift. Um, building a business you love.

And read it and begin to learn. But start start becoming I'm gonna read 12 business books on small business.

Running a small business this year >> while you're doing the other stuff.

>> Y >> and turn off Netflix. >> Y and I'd add and >> learn how to run a business. >> I'm going to add one more homework assignment. There's got to be somebody in your neck of the woods who's winning in this area. >> Yeah. Go learn from them >> and just go buy their lunch and just ask them like a book report. Keep it simple.

Act like you're doing a sixth grade book report on their business. You'd be surprised what you'll learn. >> Yep. Yep.

You could, you know, I I I would imagine there's about four levers if we had time to get into it and do a in-depth coaching session that you could pull and go from 24 to 50 quick. That's right. Probably double the nets >> on this cuz there probably just some stupid I mean it's just it's when I look back on some of the stuff I've done I go man that one little thing it was so stupid and it changed it changed a million dollars. It's just nuts.

Yeah, you you can do this and you're very capable. I don't I don't hear someone that's lacking in capability.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

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and uh you can click the link in the description if you want to go that way, too. We'll help you out. Sam's with us in Connecticut. Hey, Sam. How are you?

>> I'm good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, so I wanted to get your advice. Um my wife and I have a very different risk tolerance when it comes to investing in debt. Specifically, uh when it pertains to a a single family home that we

currently live in that I would like to rent, um and get a different home for us to live in and my wife would like to sell it. Uh she has the mentality of being completely debtree and uh we're

conflicted because of some of the the variables underneath. I wanted to kind of walk it through and see what you thought. >> Okay. What are what are your underneath variables?

>> Yeah. So, for me, um

I have more in cash on hand than I owe

on the mortgage. Um we have about $330

uh 330 I'm sorry, 330K in equity on the house.

Mhm. >> And uh the only debt that we currently have are my wife's student loans, which she has 30K in student loans. Um 20K of that being at about 5 to 6% interest. Uh

10K at 3.5% or lower.

>> So, um my thought process was between

the two of us, we have about 190K in

cash. Um >> And what's your mortgage? What's your mortgage balance?

Uh the mortgage balance, we have 97K left on the mortgage. It's a fixed 15 years at 2.4%.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh household income between the two of us before taxes is 285.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. Good for you.

Well, well done. And how old are you two?

>> Uh 34. >> Okay. All right.

And and so you that that's the variables you were talking about the underneath, right? That in other words, that's your that's your story, your financial story, your math story.

>> Yes. For me, I'm thinking we have a very

low mortgage. >> So, her her her vote her vote is to

>> uh pay cash for the next house and sell this one and pay off the student loans today out of the cash that you have.

>> Your vote is keep the rental house and keep the student loans because they're low interest rate and stay leveraged.

>> Yeah. So, what I said was, let's pay off the 5% or higher, the 20k. The 3.5% is

about the same as what we can get in a high yield savings. It's low.

>> Okay? >> Leave them. If the rates change, then let's pay them off. But I would like to stay leveraged and make money on the >> spread because my mortgage is >> One more time. Tell me tell me what how old you guys are again.

>> 34. >> Okay. I'm sorry. And what do you do for a living, Sam?

>> Uh, I work in corporate finance. Ah, okay. Sounded like it. Okay, good. All right. Um, do you have a finance degree?

>> Yeah. >> You have an MBA?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. So, um, I've got a finance degree, too, by the way. And, uh, uh, with a specialization in real estate. That's the world I grew up in, which is the king of leverage, right? Real estate.

So, um,

obviously you two are smart people and you make really good money and you're going to be okay if you watch what you're doing. You're not in bankruptcy zone or anything like that. Do you

remember looking at the case studies back in college when we used to do case studies on companies and when the bond

when a a publicly traded company when the bond when the when they were car putting out too many bonds they were issuing so many bonds and they were carrying a load of bank debt that we looked at that as risk and we would there we would run a formula and lower the value of the stock because they were carrying too much debt that debt equaled risk. Do you remember those case studies >> at a high level? Yeah. >> Yeah.

Okay. And then when I got out of school, I got my securities license and I was selling investments in the real in the investment world.

thing when you're comparing an aggressive growth stock mutual fund which has high volatility. And the measure statistically of the high volatility is called a beta. It's a math a math number that the more volatility

the higher the beta. Okay. And a a low

low volatility smooth curve versus a

high mountain and valley curve is a low

beta. And what we were taught to do in that world on a sophisticated level was to say all right we're going to adjust for risk by uh adjusting with the beta.

We're going to use the beta as the mathematical way to adjust for risk because you can't really compare a 20% rate of return high volatility mutual fund with a 11% rate of return low

volatility mutual fund and compare them apples to apples. You have to adjust for risk. And mathematically the way you do that is to use a beta in an inverse math formula. Does any of that sound familiar?

>> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay, that's that's how it's done. point all of all of that gobbledegoop academic talk was because you approach this from an academic intellectual viewpoint and that so that's the way I'm approaching your question. The point being that mathematically we are 100% sure in business and it's proven in every area more debt equals more risk. Period. Lots

of debt equals lots of risk. No debt equals almost no risk. So risk is associated with levels of debt. Would you agree with that?

Yeah. >> So to compare your zero risk of being

debtree by paying off the 3% loan and

say no, I don't want to pay that off because I'm going to invest that money at 3%. To say that you're actually or 4%

to say that you're actually making money on that transaction. You're not after you mathematically adjust for risk.

>> You follow that?

>> I do. Yeah. So your your initial formula is a formula most people use, but it's a naive, unsophisticated formula because you're not mathematically including risk in the discussion. That's all I'm bringing up.

So all of that to say de debt and leverage equals risk. Now, does that prove out in the data over long periods of time? Well, it does because when we interview interviewed 10,167 millionaires and I'll send you a copy of the book Baby Steps Millionaires, which has the white paper of the research in the back of it, and you can go through it.

millionaires, the number of them that said, "I became a millionaire by

borrowing money at my house on my house or not paying off a student loan at a low interest rate and investing the difference." The number of people that said that caused me to become a millionaire, Sam, it was precisely zero.

None of them did it. They all said what

your wife said. They all said, "I'm getting out of debt and with the lowered risk and the increased cash flow because I don't have debt payments, I'm going to use the increased cash flow to build wealth and the sustainability of this is very high because I've lowered my risk quotients." And this is a real fancy long diet tribe to say, "Sam, your wife's right.

It's true. Yeah, she's right.

>> Sorry, bud. You lose.

>> And again, >> if I woke up in your shoes, I'd sell your house and I'd pay off your student loans today and I buy me another house with cash and I'd kiss my wife on the lips and say, "Thank you, Jesus. I married a good woman." >> Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. Because the 190k cash >> Oh, you're in such a good position.

You've done so many things right. And this is almost a esoteric philosophical

argument. It's really not really a big but but you've got to work this through because the problem is you're going to extrapolate. You're going to magnify whatever your value system is here. So if your value system is Sam's and you're going to continue to borrow money into it, all of that crap I just laid out there that's all true. >> Yeah. >> Is going to take you down eventually.

>> That's right. Cuz you'll keep doing >> and if you go her way, which is grandma's way, >> Yeah. It doesn't feel as sophisticated doing finance major, >> but it's actually technically more sophisticated. H, isn't that interesting? >> Yeah. Then you end up with a high sustainability, high cash flow, lowrisk environment. And it's not about risk tolerance. It's about what works in the end.

[Music]

Heat. [Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Applause]

Heat.

[Music] Elijah is in Oklahoma. Hi, Elijah. How

are you?

>> I'm good. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up, sir?

>> Hey, so me and my wife um not too long ago decided to go ahead and start doing the baby steps. Um we're still in baby step one. It hasn't been that long since we decided. Um but the reason I was calling today is because we did lease a car about a year ago. I've been listening to for a little while and I know that's a no no, but we did do it and um we're upside down on it about

$10,000 and so we're kind of in a pickle

and I was just calling you guys to see if I should just ride the lease out and and you know see how you know figure it out when it ends or if if there's something I can do in the meantime to kind of get us in a better position.

>> Okay. What kind of car is it?

It's a 2025 Chevy Equinox.

>> Okay.

Um, how long is the lease?

>> Uh, I believe it's 3 years. So, coming up October will be one year. So, we'll still have a couple years on it. >> And how much is your monthly payment?

>> Uh, 645.

>> Okay. So, it's good. It takes 14,000 to ride the lease up.

15,000. Yeah, it's not all 15. Yeah, give or take. >> Yeah. And um

Okay. I'm not sure. I want you to double

check your numbers on the $10,000 upside down. That sounds wrong after one year.

>> Okay. Well, we had I had another vehicle that I had leased previously. And again,

I know it shouldn't have done it. >> You rolled you rolled the negative into this one from my Yes.

>> Okay. So, when you call, did did you

call you called to get a payoff? Did they give you the early buyout number on

the lease or the total number on the lease?

>> Um, I believe it was a total number.

>> I didn't ask. >> You need the You need the early buyout.

If I wrote you a check today to pay the

car off and own it, what is the number today?

because I think that's going to be less than 10,000 with the numbers you're giving me.

>> Okay. >> Might not be, but it could be. Okay.

That's the first thing I want to do. All right. So, here's the thing. We know if you write a check for 15,000, you can drive the car for two years.

>> Uhhuh. >> That's your numbers today. We know that number. Okay. 645* 24. Okay. And so, we

know that's where that's going to take us now. Uh, and so that's our worstc

case scenario. And then you turn it in at the end of the lease, like you said, ride the lease out. >> Okay, that's our worst case. Now, if we sell the car, and in order to sell the car, we have to write a $10,000 check,

then we could have driven the car for two more years for only $5,000 difference.

>> Okay. >> I'd probably ride the lease out if that's the case. So, if your 10 number is correct, I'm going to ride the lease out because you're not making enough headway on this versus you get the full

use of the car if you pay the 15.

>> Yeah. >> If I only if I write a check for 10, I don't have the car for two years.

And so, really, I get the use of the car for the difference, which is five in that scenario. Now, I think you're going to find it to be less. Let's call it seven. And if you could get out of it for seven, would I get out of it?

Um, yeah, I probably would. That's like 10 months payments and then I'm free from the other month's payments.

Um, but I don't know how much negative equity you rolled and I don't know which numbers you're you're getting. And of course, you got to compare this to the actual value of the car. How did you value the car?

Uh, well, I had I called some dealerships and and gave them all the information and they they told you what they would pay for it.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> See, that's that's the wholesale number.

You could sell the Equinox to an individual.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> And if you did that, is it seven or is it five difference? Yeah, probably. Cuz

that that's a wholesale number you got.

So, the second So, first thing you got to do to figure out your real numbers is you got to call the uh finance department. Right? That's your 1-800 number on your payment book, okay? Or on your website for payments. A and talk to him and say, "I need the early buyout.

If I write a check today, what's the

payoff today? I need that number. I

think it's less than 10." Okay. Then the second number you need, go to kellybluebook kbb.com or edundscar guide, either one, and look up the um private sale value of your

car, not the trade-in value. Cuz when a dealer buys a car from you, Elijah, they buy it to resell at a profit.

>> Okay? >> And so if they buy that car for 20, that means they plan to sell it for 25.

>> Okay. Got >> Which means you could have sold it to an individual for 23.

If that's the case, then that's a that's a you know, that's probably your difference. Something like that with that equinox somewhere in there.

>> Yeah. I I'm sitting here listening to this and and you know it's just a a reminder to not get sucked into whatever the decision was. There was an emotion there because here's a young guy who's going man we messed up and now you got

to try to wade through this and yeah as as you were laying this out I just I feel legit compassion and there is such

an emotional pull. It seems like such a good idea the lease idea and then when you actually get stuck with it and the pit in your stomach or your chest of that 600 and What? I think I wrote $645

a month payment. >> Yeah, that's a lot.

>> That's That's a heavy weight. And now he doesn't have a ton of options because I don't I mean, I'd love for him to try to sell it on on the open market to somebody, but not a lot of people in today's economy are looking for a 2025 Chevy Equinox. You try it, but you may

have to just bite the bullet on this.

>> There's a guy named Elijah that bought one. >> That's right. >> But the uh um somebody bought him, but yeah, he leased it, right? that, you know, I think you bring up a good point, too, that um when you're excited about

buying something >> or you're in a what feels like a desperate situation and you're buying something, you need to push pause.

>> Yeah. >> In both cases and wait overnight. And here's the lens I think Ken, you're bringing up that's very smart. Here's the lens to look at it. Say, "All right,

is this a good decision 10 years from

now?" >> Yeah. If I'm 26 years old, will the 36-y

old version of me be pissed at the 26-y

old version? >> Way of looking at it, >> if that if that 36-y old version of me is going to look back and go, I'm going to choke you, you little, you know, and um because you're just being impulsive and excited and you like that new car leather smell, all that stuff. And um

you know, you got stuck in it or you're feeling scared and and you're scared about nothing.

>> You're acting like this is a big deal. It's not a big deal. And that's what perspective gives you when you pan back >> and you say out there 10 years, 15 years, 30 years.

>> Middle class people say, "How's this going to affect me three years from now?" >> Yeah. >> Poor people say, "Thank God it's Friday." >> That's right. That's right. >> Oh god, it's Monday. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And so, and Zig Ziggler used to say, "Poor people have big TVs. Rich people

have big libraries." >> Mhm. >> You know, so it's a long-term thinking

thing. A and you know, so you know,

don't think like poor people.

>> Yeah. And if you want to be rich people, start thinking like rich people and you'll become rich people in America.

>> That's right. By the way, here's a notion in the 24-hour pause that Dave recommended, actually go home and run the numbers on what a $645 a month

payment is going to do to your expenses.

A lot of people don't do that. They're on the car lot, right? And there's a negative emotion or an excited emotion that drove them to the car lot. They got a salesperson. all the things.

Endorphins are exploding when they sit in the car, when they drive it, and they wonder what it's going to feel like, what am I going to look like? And nobody sits there and goes, "What's $645 a month going to feel like?" >> Yeah. Well, the number of times somebody gets a $500 a month raise and celebrates it with a new $750 a month payment. It's

just Yeah, that's a great point.

>> It's the same exact thing. >> What are we doing here, folks? >> The same exact thing. Yeah.

It falls into all of that. And >> point being, Elijah, you're not the only one. Most of us have done this dumb thing you did. Yeah.

>> Uh, we love you. We're proud of you for turning it around. Get those two numbers, the actual private sale value and the early buyout. Compare those to the $15,000 number to keep the car and then ask yourself, is it worth it to be set free?

If you're only going to save $1,000 or $2,000, drive the thing through the lease.

it today.

[Music]

[Music]

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 4:18 and 19. But the path of the just is like the shining sun that shines ever brighter into the perfect day. The way of the wicked is like darkness. They do not know what makes them stumble.

Theodore Roosevelt said, "Knowing what's right doesn't mean much unless you do what's right." Sarah is with us in Grand

Rapids. Hey Sarah, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. I want to thank you for walking with me every day. I listen to you on my walks and I pray. So thank you.

>> Well, thank you. I knew I was getting some exercise.

Um, I am debtree, but um I make about

55,000 and um I'm just wondering at what point can I should I help my daughter buy a

car or purchase windows for my house or go on a vacation >> when you have the money?

>> Yeah.

Yeah. So, that's what I figure out.

Um, I think according to you, I probably

need to save more. So, >> well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know why what I told you on your walk, but um

>> Yeah. Yeah. Give us a picture.

>> But, uh, I mean, you're debtree. You have an emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses, right?

>> Um, I have about 12,000. Yeah.

>> Is that 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yeah, probably the lower end of that.

Yeah. >> All right. Then you we have an emergency fund in place. And then do you have any more money saved than that? No.

>> No, not much. No. >> When you have money saved, do you buy windows or when you have money saved, we buy daughter a car. By the way, it won't hurt for daughter to be working. And

you know, maybe she pays for half of this car. Maybe you put in a little help or you put in $1,000 $2,000. She puts in $1,000 $2,000 car gets her a little teenage hooptie. Right.

>> Right. Well, yeah. There. Yeah. That's a whole issue. But yes, >> why is that an issue?

>> Well, I gave uh when I went through one of my divorces, my um ex-husband promised both my daughters a car. So, I ended up >> So, I I gave one of my daughters a car, but I made her pay half, but I gave that money to the other daughter. So I um

think then if that daughter was and she hasn't bought a car so and I'm driving her back and forth to school in Ann Arbor so it's a lot of driving and and I have a 45minute commute as well.

>> You gave her cash for a car and she didn't use it for a car.

>> Well she still has the cash but she just

is saving it. So um >> how much money does she have?

Um, she has she has about $6,000.

>> Just go buy a dad gum car.

>> But I only gave her 2,000. So, >> okay, that's fine. She can go buy a car.

>> What's the point? Your ex-husband hasn't got anything to do with this. That's why we call him X. >> I Yeah, but I but I gave the other

daughter half the I made her pay half the value of that car. >> Well, so what? You don't have any money.

>> Okay. $6,000 daughter, get a $6,000 car.

Other daughter, that's the way it went down in the divorce. If your ex-husband wants to put some money in, that's fine, but you don't have any money. No.

>> And you're not need to be commuting for a kid that's got $6,000 in the bank and you're driving around half of Egypt up there.

>> Ann Arbor's a long way from Grand Rapids. That's insanity.

>> I know. >> Get that kid's butt in a car. Tell her to be up. Get get up and drive herself down there. Sarah, I think you got to get to a point where you realize you are going to disappoint your daughter at some point. And when we have real reasons for the disappointment, like Dave's saying, you're just going to have to own that. You I feels like you're in this crazy cycle right now trying to please, trying to make everybody happy and you don't have enough money to get windows in your house,

>> right? >> So, start taking some initiative. I'm gonna help you a whole bunch in this one call. This is even better than our walk.

Okay. So, here here the one call. You ready? You tell your daughter to go buy a car cuz you're not driving her anymore

and you I'll help you go pick out a car.

Okay, that now that one's done. And let

me tell you what what you just got back.

Two hours a day you just got back >> and all the gas money and all the gas.

And that's going to help you save up a lot of money for your windows. >> Mhm. >> This is just miracle right here. It's a miracle. I'm so glad you called. And uh we also found you some overtime opportunities or a second job opportunity now that you're not driving all over Michigan. >> Now that you're not Ubering a kid that has the money to buy her own car.

>> Yeah.

Wow. I love to disappoint my kids when I'm right. You know, I like, you know, when I'm right or it makes common sense, it's like, yeah, I'm disappointing you right now. >> I used to tell them all the time, like, look, you got to have something to tell your therapist when you're 30. So, we're just going to go ahead and cover that now. Okay. >> Come on. Everybody needs a struggle.

Everybody needs a struggle. Everybody needs some some dad issues. So, I'm going to give you some dad issues right now. >> Oh, that's good. >> Answer is no. >> Nope. Nope. Let me get let me help you with that. I'm going to open out the big box of Nope.

>> So true, though.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's tough.

>> And poor little Rachel survived, didn't she? >> And poor little Daniel and Denise, they survived. It's just amazing. They're resilient little creatures. >> They are. >> It's amazing what they can come through.

Yeah. Poor little thing. Mommy ain't driving her all the way to Dad Gum Ann Arbor from Grand Rapids.

>> Good lord.

>> Lot of lot of guilt and shame. >> I'm gonna open up a big old box of Nope.

>> Here, let me give you a present. Nope.

>> Nope.

>> Happy birthday. >> Right. Yeah. >> Carrie is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Carrie. What's up?

>> Hi. I just had a quick question for you.

Um, I recently got married and we each had a house before we got married and we're just trying to figure out what to do to maximize essentially the growth on

my house. Um, avoiding capital gains maybe. >> You're not going to have any capital gains. You've lived in it.

>> Well, if we rent it out.

>> Oh, no. I just considering >> I'd sell it.

>> No details needed. Just sell it.

>> Well, the details the details are I'm making the assumption that you have mortgages on both of these.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. No, I don't need another mortgage payment. I got a husband. So, that's enough. So, now we're going to now we're going to let's combine our households. Move in one of them. Take the money from the other one. Pay down the one you're going to live in. Pay off your debts the one you're going to live in. Walk your baby steps with the one you're going to live in from the equity of the old one. If you if you tell me

I'm wrong and they're both paid for and you got a million dollars in your 401k, I might change my answer.

>> Not that much, but we're we're in a good spot. Are they both about using it as an investment? Are they both paid for?

No. >> Do you have the money to pay both of them off today?

>> No. >> Okay. Then don't keep it.

>> Okay. >> Because essentially you've defaulted into I borrowed money to buy a rental property.

>> That's what that's the default that you backed into and I'm going to avoid that mistake. And so that that's I I'm not

trying to just rush the answer and say there's an answer that your your situation is not different. Your situation's got its nuances without a doubt. But I'm not going to lead you into borrowing money to buy a rental property. And if you keep a property that has debt on it, that's you backed into it and had the exact same effect.

>> And and I want to point out that when we talk to so many people like this and they think, "Oh, this is a great investment." You start running through the actual numbers of what you make.

There's not much there for the headache.

>> Now all of a sudden, you're a landlord >> in a new marriage and it's just never worth the squeeze. I shouldn't say never.

okay now I own $700 million in real estate right now.

That's where I get that formula from of barely breaking even. I would know what I'm talking about is what I'm saying. Yes, we own a bunch of houses. We own a bunch of commercial property. We own this campus that we're sitting in and so on. Okay. And so the deal is that in in

the real estate world, you have your gross rent potential, the maximum if it stays rented the whole time, minus vacancy, right? Minus credit loss, which is people who don't pay and you have to remove them and then you never get your money. minus repairs, the heating and air that goes out, the roof that leaks, the floor that has a creep, you know,

the mold scare, whatever the 9 million things are that's going to go wrong with that house in a year, minus taxes, minus

insurance, minus your payment. Tada. You didn't really make any money. You did a lot of work for a hundred bucks.

And you took a lot of risk for a hundred bucks. And that's where most of these things shake out. to Ken's Point. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 46. Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan | September 10, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hzme1h4DLs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:08:19 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal's broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the front row seat on Ramsey Network is my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Shay is in Nashville. Hi Shay, how are you? >> Hey there. I'm so well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I'm just in an interesting situation right now. I just found out I'm expecting >> Yay.

I'm Is that your first? >> It's with my husband, of course. What was that? >> Is that your first baby?

>> Yes. >> Cool. How old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Awesomeness. Cool. Okay. Wonderful news.

>> Yeah. So, the thing is, um, it's not

planned, so we don't have our finances fully in order. Mhm.

>> Um and with me out of work um when the

time comes um we will be short um of our

budget. So if I could just get any

advice on anything else we're missing.

>> Yeah. >> On what else we could do? >> Yeah. It just got real.

>> Yes.

>> Why are you out of work? >> Well, she's saying when she has the baby, right? >> Yes. I'm in work right now. >> Oh, you are? I misunderstood.

>> It is getting tough already. Yeah, all the nausea. >> Yeah, you got got a little morning sickness going, huh, kiddo?

>> All right, this is so fun. All right, so I distinctly remember >> like it was yesterday. It wasn't, but like it was yesterday that when I graduated from college and got my first

uh adult job, I felt like an adult. we

got married.

I felt a little bit more like an adult, but nothing scared the crap out of me like the first baby on the way.

>> It's the same way for me. >> Yeah. Okay. And so what little was left of your former high school, college,

freewheeling, partying or not, but just

not not worrying about responsibilities.

What little was left of that is now gone, right?

>> I I suppose so.

>> So, now it's time to get real serious about your careers >> and real serious about the grown-up stuff like making some money, having some money for you and this kid and figuring out how to do this. And that's why you're calling. I'm so proud of you.

Way to go. Because you're reacting to a natural anxiety that we all have had.

any of us that have had a baby, unless you're psychotic, when you have a and b when the baby actually comes, it's going to be another one. By the way, it's going to another level of seriousness.

It's like a whoa, this is I'm now in charge of a life. I have a real burden

here. I have a real responsibility here.

You await here. You're going to feel it again even when when when uh when Junior

enters the world. So, I'm so This is so awesome. So, what this means is probably

more than ever before in your life, you're going to get real serious about making some money.

>> Yep. >> That's all that's what all that leads to. So, what do you do for a living?

>> I refurbish furniture and woodworking in

Nashville.

>> You don't make any money, do you?

>> Oh, I make a lot of money. >> Oh, do you really? Okay, good.

>> I do. >> Okay. What's What's a lot of money? What are you making? Well, um I was um cut

back because I left work full-time. Um

so I'm currently making $24 an hour at

32 a hours a week.

>> Well, that's not a lot of money.

>> In my mind, it has been.

>> Okay. But you're you're saying you're scraping you're scraping by and you're you're worried that Okay. And what's your husband make?

>> He's making um 22

hundred a month. >> Yeah. Y'all are starving to death. What does he do?

>> He works in a warehouse um that supplies

apartments with furniture and utilities and >> how old is he?

>> He's 23. >> Okay. All right. And so he just took a job so y'all could have food and lights and water and that that's and he's not afraid of work. That's a good man. But now it's time to not do that anymore. It's time to take a career position and start thinking about what am I going to be doing when I'm 30 that makes $100,000 a year, >> right? >> Both of you.

And if you're going to be refinishing furniture, it's cuz you own a refernishing furniture company. That's the only possible way you're still doing that when you're 30.

Cuz you're not going to do artsy fartsy and make a living >> working for somebody else. Not going to work. >> Yeah. I I'm curious, what is his uh what is his goal? Has he stated a professional idea or two or three to you? >> He's had a few ideas and he he really

would like to get into home inspections.

>> Okay. >> Um he just he loves um home supply.

>> Is he is he handy? Is he good fixing stuff or doing stuff? Does he find that he enjoys doing things like that?

>> He's not so much handy, but he's very intellectual and he loves logistics.

>> Uhhuh.

And he has no uh formal training, right?

You guys just kind of out of high school. What's his background educationally? >> Yeah, we Yeah, we are both out of high school, got jobs, and have worked our ways up in the company so far.

>> Well, you know, when you look long term here, um I would run those numbers and look at what what a future looks like inspecting homes. That's a little bit of a niche. No, I think there are people who do very well at it once they consolidate a lot of realtors and things in an area and they become go-to and then they can scale themselves. But the reason I asked the question about the hands and is he good at things like that?

your husband's shoes, um I'm going to look at trades. I'm going to look at some of that talent that he has and we're going to give you the book Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's got the Get Clear Assessment in it. I really want him to take it like you to take it. We'll give you Well, Kelly, let's give him a book each there or two codes, one book. Here's the deal.

He needs to be looking at the trades right now because there's so much upward mobility uh for him to to make much more

than he's making right now at 22 bucks an hour. And secondly, >> 2200 a month is worse than 22 bucks.

>> That's right. 2,200 a month. But more importantly, there's a path to ownership in the trades right now. And if he has any kind of talent in that area, um I

would be looking at that if I were him because of the opportunities. >> Yeah. So, there's two two parts to the equation. We're going to send you that book and you guys are going to take the assessment and I want you to develop a longterm game plan for both of you.

What are you going to be doing when this kid is 10 that makes that makes a lot of money for your family >> that and that you enjoy and that you're passionate about? And they it's all three are congruent. Okay. The second part of the equation though is what are you going to be doing in the next nine months?

>> You guys need to take six different jobs. All of you. You need to work like crazy people and pile up as much cash as you can pile up right now.

now. Right. >> Right. And so you got to get ready.

And the way you get ready is you you you build a storm cellar and you fill it with money and you go work work work work work work work work work work work work for like crazy for a short period of time. >> If you have family in the area that can help watch the baby, you could spin off this woodworking that you do and work full-time or close to full-time if you schedule, you know, your work around weekends, odd hours because it's really projectbased. That's how you can make sure we don't miss any money once baby arrives.

You got to start thinking like that. >> Yeah.

>> I agree. But my point is, can she now do that for herself? That's right. And then set her own hours because these are project based. >> So, it's time. It got real. That's the the summation of the call. It got real.

And the short term, you got to pile up some cash and get ready. Long-term, it's now time to do big boy, big girl jobs, careers, not just I take a job that pays

me some money so I can make it to the weekend.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids, and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And Oh, you're telling me.

And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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[Music]

Brandy is with us in Georgia. Hi,

Brandy. How are you?

>> I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing today? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, I've been married for 25 years

and um, I don't work at the time. Uh,

I'm taking care of my grandson, which my husband totally, you know, is on board with that, but I get no money unless I have to ask for it. And we are debtree.

Uh, we owe nothing. And I just feel like

anything I say, he doesn't want to take my advice for anything. Like I feel like we need to sell our house now cuz it's a bigger house and we don't really need all the room and we could sell this and we have a really good life. I mean I feel like um it's I don't know. I just his daughter instead of his wife.

>> O uh how can we help?

>> Well, I just I don't know. I mean what should I like we end up separating like two years ago and I found out it was actually what he was worth. We was worth like I don't know anything. If he was to pass away tomorrow, I wouldn't know what to do. I don't know what's in his bank account. I have no access to anything.

My name's not on his business. My name's not on his debit, you know, card. I can't use his debit card. And we've been married for 25 years. I'm like, you know, and it really aggravated me when we separated cuz my attorney, you know, gave me all this information on, you know, what he's got. And I was just like, I feel like I deserve that, you know, more. Well, >> where's the marriage now?

uh works together. Um I take care of my grandson. I can work like if I you know and I've even said, "Do you want me to work?" He's like, "No, I want you to take care of our grandson." You know, I think it's wonderful that we can do that. But it's like I don't get paid for taking care of my grandson. So I'm have to always ask him for money, you know?

>> Does he give you money when you ask?

What's that transaction like?

>> He does. Yeah, he does. But he only gives me money for what I need. Like if I'm going to get groceries, he'll give me like $200. I'm like, $200? Don't buy

anything, you know, and and my fear is I'm going to get up to the counter and not have enough money and have to put everything back. And I know he's got the money to give me. That's what hope so, you know, it makes me so aggravated at them. >> Well, what happened over a twoyear or you separated two years ago. What happened as a result of separating?

Because it doesn't sound like anything has changed.

>> It hadn't. No, we And honestly, I feel like we got >> Why are you not still separated if nothing changed? >> I know. Well, financially it was so expensive having to pay attorney fees, which now he had to pay me $750 a week alimony during that time, but I had to

get a place to live. So, I didn't realize how expensive things was cuz I was, you know, we didn't had no debt.

So, I went from not having no debt to having like, you know, 300 like probably

$3,500 a month that I had to pay, you know, for my rent. >> So, you went back to jail in or because it was too expensive to be free. That's what what's that's what's that's what's that's what I'm hearing. I Yeah, I just love them so much. I It's crazy. I know.

>> So, why did you call us? I'm so confused. What What do you want us to do? >> Am I Well, I just feel like am I in the wrong for wanting, you know, have >> No, you're not in the wrong, but you're not doing anything about it.

>> I know. That's why I called you because my >> I can't do anything about it. You got to do something about it.

>> What can I do? What should I do?

>> I I think you've got to decide if you want to be married to someone that treats you this way.

>> And you're going to have to sit down. My recommendation would be that the two of you sit down with a good marriage counselor >> and that Bubba hears for the first time in his 25 freaking years that he's mistreating his wife >> and he feels he says I don't manage >> I don't care what he says.

>> You actually care what he says, but I don't. >> I know. >> So you need to not care what he says.

You need to go see a marriage counselor cuz he he sucks as a husband.

>> He's a horrible husband. I feel like >> I agree cuz I had to go to the doctor yesterday. >> Darling, you're just going to talk my arm off and do nothing. I can tell I can tell exactly what's going to happen with you.

>> Yeah, he's you got to decide what you're going to do, >> okay? And quit telling me stories about him. Are you going to actually get on the phone and call a marriage counselor and go sit down with one? You need to do that today.

Shut up. Live with it. Okay? If you're

not going to do nothing about it, shut up about it. But if you're going to do something, then we'll we'll pray for you and back you because and yes, you're correct, honey, that that that the situation's weird and he's not a good husband. He's mistreating his wife. And the problem is he's probably not a bad guy. He's probably just doesn't know how to do it. He probably doesn't know how to be a good husband. He thinks he's taking care of you. He may be that dumb.

And so you, you know, we're gonna have to educate him and teach him that, you know, this is this is emotional, financial abuse, >> dude. And so you need to involve your

wife in the decisions. Let her have the dignity of being one of the two adults in the household. And but that's a marriage counseling thing, honey. I can't dictate that. I can't I don't have a magic wand over here to tap him on his little head and say, "That's it, dude.

Now you're magically healed." I can't do that from here. But you're going to have to work on it. And I don't think you're going to. You just talk about it all the time.

>> Yeah. You've married a control freak and then you've let him get more and more control over 25 years and then you summoned up some guts, which I admire two years ago, but then it ended up being a pump fake. >> Yeah. >> You just pump faked or he called your bluff.

He played to your greatest fears as my guess, not knowing the details, and you caved. And you've convinced yourself that I love him so much. And I don't think that's the case. >> That's enabling.

>> So >> I love him so much I'm willing to be abused. Yeah. >> Come on. He's warped. I don't think he's dumb. I think he's warped because he's really unhealthy. And I'm not attacking him. And I'm not making excuses for him.

But you've got to shake him. He needs to

be shaken. >> Yeah. If this guy was my buddy, I'd be boxing his ears, man. I'd be giving him a hard time. >> That'd be fun. >> That'd be an interesting conversation, wouldn't it? Of course, he wouldn't have been my buddy because he wouldn't because see that kind of >> That's true. >> That wouldn't have worked out. That wouldn't have worked out either. John is in Nashville. Hey, John. How you doing?

doing. How about yourself, Mr. Ramsey?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, well, I'm having some issues. I'm 20

years old. Um, I have a one-year-old kid

and a wife. Um, and I'm in so like deep

debt to the point where I think I'm going to have to go bankrupt. >> How What kind of debt have you got, honey?

>> Um, I have 32,000 in student debts for my wife. She's currently in school. Um, and then I have >> So, you're running up, you have $32,000 in student debt, and you're continuing to run up student loan debt.

>> Uh, no. So, that's >> who's paying for her school?

>> I am. Uh, she's a stay-at-home mom.

>> With what? >> We have a one-year-old.

>> Um, with me working.

>> Oh, okay. And what other debt do you have, Sure? >> Yeah.

>> Um, and then I have two vehicle loans

out. Um, and on my truck I'm two months

behind and I owe >> So How much do you owe on your truck?

>> I owe 11,700.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on the other car? What do you owe on the other car?

>> Uh, 10,000.

>> Okay. And what other debts do you have?

Credit cards. >> Um, I have 3K in personal loans and then

about 1,000 in credit card.

>> Okay. All right. And what do you make, sir?

Um, I make $3,500 a month.

>> Okay. All right.

Um, okay.

You're you're not bankrupt. You're 20 years old. You have a baby and you're scared and you've done some dumb things that have put you in a corner, but it's not bankrupted you. Okay. You have cars that you can't afford.

Okay? You can't afford these cars.

Obviously, that's why you're behind on the truck. You do not have any organization to your money. no budget or anything else. And student loans are not bankruptable. And you can't bankrupt on the cars unless you pay the bill. If you

don't pay the bill, you give up the car in bankruptcy.

>> Yeah. >> So, if you have no cars and you still

got the student loans, you could be bankrupt. But it really wouldn't do you much good. You could just sell the cars and still have the student loan and not be bankrupt.

>> Gotcha. >> What's the truck worth?

Um, it whenever they pulled it, I had

the loan out for uh 12750.

>> What's the truck worth?

>> Um, it's probably worth 9,000.

>> Okay, good. And who do you owe the money to?

>> Uh, the bank.

>> Local bank.

>> Okay. And what about the $10,000 car?

What's it worth?

>> Um, it's we paid 16 for it. Um, I gave,

you know, 6,000 down.

>> Good. You need to sell that car this week.

>> Okay. >> And your wife can't be in school. You can't afford to pay for school right now. When your truck payments are behind, your wife's not going to school.

>> Yeah. >> You don't do that. Okay. You got to get organized here.

We're going to help you, man. I've been where you are and been scared with a little baby and didn't know what to do. We're going to put a fin a Ramsey coach in your corner at my expense. We're going to pay for it and we'll put you into Financial Peace University and you and your wife are going to do that.

You're going to have to sell everything and you're going to have to work like a maniac and you can turn this around and we can show you how.

[Music]

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Blake's with us in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi Blake, how are you?

>> I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um, I'm starting a new job next week. I'm leaving my current job tomorrow. >> Wow. Cool. Big deal. Big race.

>> Yeah, big deal. Um, it's it on paper

it's more money. Um, which I'm excited about. >> Why is it on paper and not real?

>> Because it's not in my bank account yet.

>> Oh, cuz it hadn't happened yet. Okay.

>> Yeah, I thought that was a I thought that was a congressman on Meet the Press for a second with that answer. >> On paper. >> On paper. Um, >> the promise is that we're going to get a raise. Okay, I got you. All right.

>> Yeah. Um, about $1,900 more a month

guaranteed. Okay, cool.

>> Um, starting out 25 an hour. It's 4 days

a week, 12 hour shifts, long shifts, but I get the whole weekend off, which is a blessing from what I'm currently doing.

>> Okay. >> Um, so I'm just kind of looking. I want to start investing >> money. I've not had any wiggle room in

my financial situation to start investing. So, I'm kind of just kind of looking where and what I need to do to start start investing. And by the time I'm 60, >> yeah, you'd have some you'd have some money. Good for you. >> So, do you have a 401k at the new place?

>> Um, I'll have to set one up after uh 90 days. >> Okay. Do the Roth 401k.

>> Roth. Okay. >> That means it's going to grow tax-free,

but the money but you're going to pay taxes on the money that you put into it now, which is whoopy dippy. No big deal.

And uh they're going to match it probably. And if they do, they match it with non Roth, which is okay.

>> And pick and pick good growth stock mutual funds.

>> Uh you can go back and listen to this later if you want to, but there's four types of mutual funds we invest in. I invest in, Ken invests in. It's what we teach. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international.

Those are the four categories you're looking for. and you're looking for long track records, five years or more on those, preferably 10 years or more, but

long track records. And so if you've got two growth funds, you can look at them and go, "Okay, this one has a 10year track record and it is average 12% and

this one has an 8-year track record and it is averaged 11%. Oh, I'm going with the other one." Okay, you know what I'm saying? That's how that's how you're looking at it. It's not real hard. and they can they can show you every bit of that in the HR stuff with your 401k when the 90 days comes up. And we recommend you put 15% of your income, not more,

not less, into your 401k. Now, that is

if you are debtree and have your emergency fund in place of 3 to six months of expenses. Is that true?

>> That is not. >> Okay. Then we don't need to start investing yet. We need a you first investment is to get the debt paid off so that you've got the money to invest.

>> Okay. >> How much debt have you got?

>> I have 36,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. I'm going to attack that like my hair is on fire.

>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm in

a good I'm going to be in a good position next month especially to start attacking that. >> Yeah. I mean, you got an extra 1,900 plus you can squeeze your budget down.

So $3,000 in times 12 is 36,000. You're

done in one year.

>> Dang. >> You got you got a $2,000 raise and I'm pulling another thousand out of your party budget and you're going to get out of debt in a year >> and those weekends. So you got some time there. >> Yeah. Go make some money on the weekends. Let's do it even faster. >> Yeah, I do. I I do have a weekend kind of gig. >> Cool. What do you make?

>> Um it's just depending on uh what it is.

I do I work in a production event production. So, I do I got my degree in theater focusing in lighting design. So,

I do like concerts and weddings, corporate events. >> Okay. >> And just depending on the position, it depends on the uh >> Yeah, I'd be working all the time for a short period of time. >> If they don't have one of those gigs going, I'd be doing something else. Okay. >> Lots of stuff going on in your area there in Nashville. Lots of things you can lay your hand to as a temporary thing because the faster you get out of debt, the faster you get to invest, the faster you're wealthy. Hello.

>> Yeah. So that that's the way we're looking at this thing. That's how we're going to go at it. Really good question, sir. Congratulations on moving on up. I like it. I like it. I like it. >> By the way, I just got to say this real quick because we continue to see this stuff on social media and in traditional media about u poll came out from Gallup

just came out yesterday. Uh the American people losing faith in capitalism. Is the American dream alive and well? And all this crap that gets put out there.

And I just want to point out here's a young man who is on the precipice of

realizing the American dream and he's calling in with a question like this. So I just want to contrast all the stuff you hear versus here's a real young man who's got it figured out and he's going to get debtree and he's going to be a multi-millionaire because he's doing this early on. So this is a separate narrative than what you hear on Tik Tok and and Facebook and all the things.

This is the real deal here. So I applaud you, Blake. Uh because you are the numbers change when people do. >> Guys, when you've been reading these things, you're being lied to.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> The communist professors have put out the poll that capitalism is dead.

>> And the communist professors are on payroll at the college that was financed with your freaking student loans. You need to keep in mind where this crap is coming from. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, capitalism is not dead. As a

matter of fact, it is the best way in

human history at this particular moment in time. You have, if you are right now

in your 20s, you have the most

opportunity to build wealth the fastest

of any time in any period in any

location since man began walking the

earth beside Eve.

Old Adam, remember him? Yeah. since then

all the way to now. This is the best moment in time where I in my 20s right

now broke, I could be a millionaire so

freaking fast it would blind you.

>> There is so much opportunity. That's right. But if you sit around and suck your communist thumb and swine about

capitalism and wages and house prices

while living in your mother's basement typing on your $2,000 iPhone instead of

working your little butt off.

>> Yeah. >> Then you deserve what you get cuz you're signing up for victim mentality. We don't do victim around here. We do victor.

Blake is a victor. That's exactly right. >> He's going to get it. >> Poster child.

>> He That guy right there, man, he's a stud. Let me tell you, if he's single and you got a daughter over in Asheville, you need to try to tell her to find him cuz that one's a keeper right there. That guy's going places, right? You don't want your daughter marrying a dreamer.

They'll be in your basement >> or or or you know, I'm going to I'm going to be I'm going to What do you do? I'm an activist. I pick it against capitalism. Yeah.

Well, that God help me. Geez, get away from my kid.

Those poster boards are making a difference. >> It's just ridiculous. >> You think I make a single decision at Ramsey based on those morons? Absolutely zero. Okay. Just zero.

>> So nobody does. People that are doing things don't have time to watch that garbage. >> That's right. >> You know, so yeah, I get I get aggravated. But you're that's a good point uh Ken that um truthfully the

digital age you can just decide

and I'm in business >> and a minute and a half later you have a website and Shopify will set the stinking thing up and you start selling your little idea and then when it fails you can start another one next week. I mean it's just the most wonderful time to be alive and make money and help

people. >> Yeah. It's an amazing moment in time.

>> Blake just got a promotion and he has got a side hustle on the weekend. If he can do it, you can do it.

>> But he's been destroyed by $36,000 worth of student loan debt. He's hopeless.

He'll never make it. All right. >> He's the system is rigged against poor Blake.

[Music]

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James is in Oklahoma. Hi, James. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. Uh, we recently came into an inheritance. Um, and we were wondering what to do with the money. We have a small farm and we owe uh we still owe on

it and uh and and that's it. But we

didn't know if we should invest or pay it off. >> Okay. And how much of an inheritance did you receive, sir?

>> 700 uh,000 and there's roughly 330,000

left. That's coming in additionally.

>> So you're going to get a million total.

And um how much is owed on the farm?

Uh the total land is 336

but the house is separate and my student loans. >> How much are your student?

>> 46,000.

>> Okay. So 400,000 clears everything and out of a million.

>> Uh roughly 600 will clear everything.

>> I'm sorry I got lost. You said you had 340,000 on the land and 40,000 in student loans. Is there a house loan, too? >> Yes, there's a house loan, too. >> Oh. Oh, separate. Okay. So, you could be debtree for 600,000, still have 400,000 left over when the smoke clears.

>> Okay, cool. Um, why would you not do

that?

>> Well, we were talking our financial advisor was wanting to invest the 600,000 now and then, uh, so we just didn't know if we should invest and he was saying not to pay off the house because of the percentage and I just didn't really know what to do to get debtree. and then worry about investing or >> Yeah. What's your house? What's your household income?

>> Roughly 200,000.

>> Okay. So, if you had zero payments,

you'd have lots of money to invest, wouldn't you?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Think you need a new financial advisor.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. This one sucks.

So, yeah. Um Yeah. Honestly, I mean,

>> we have cows, too, that that help make uh the farm payment as well.

>> Well, that's good. That's good. The cows make make money in your pocket if you don't have a payment, right?

>> That's true. Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. Yeah. The the this idea that wealth is built from borrowed money is

mythology. When we actually look at the hard data, we studied 10,167

actual millionaires.

The number of them that said the way I became a millionaire was my financial adviser told me to invest with him

instead of paying off my farm was precisely zero.

10,167 millionaires disagree with your financial advisor.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's what I'm saying. Okay. And so if you take the freed up cash flow that you will have and you quit borrowing money the rest of your life and you have you're going to have approaching a $2 million net worth when this all happens

and a $200,000 income. You're going to be worth 20 30 $40 million dude

when this is over. I mean, if you'll just stay out of debt and keep steadily investing and steadily being generous and paying cash for things from this point forward. And let me ask you, who who passed away that left you this money? >> Uh, my dad. He was a big So, >> he he was a big He was a big what?

>> Fan of yours. >> Oh, okay. So, well, regardless if he was a fan of He's probably a fan of mine because he probably did the stuff I'm talking about long before he even before he even heard of me >> and then he just found me and I agreed with him. >> Does that sound right?

>> Yeah. >> In other words, it's not me, it was him.

And um I I think if he's in heaven and you pay off your farm, I see him smiling. What do you think?

>> No. Yes, sir. I I completely agree.

>> He'll also be smiling when you fire this financial adviser. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And by the way, by the way, that's that's the issue. This financial advisor

you've trusted up until this point and he gave you this advice and yet something in you said, I think I should call Dave today. >> Not doesn't ring with what dad taught me. >> So, I trust the guy.

>> Dad's money I'm getting. I'm going to honor him with this legacy. And this guy, >> yeah, it doesn't feel right. See, you can't be afraid to disappoint. >> The tuning fork of your heart.

>> Yeah. So, disappoint the financial advisor. That's what's going on here.

There's >> I'm happy to disappoint this person.

>> I know you are, but a lot of our callers, we we got to get them to a point where we realize, hey, you already answered this question before you called us. >> Here, here's the other thing.

Unless I miss my guess. This guy that I'm talking to on the phone right now's net worth before the inheritance Yeah.

was greater than the financial advisors.

>> Guaranteed.

the dirt, the cows, everything. All of it. >> This is just just saying. Caroline's in Colorado. Hi, Caroline. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good, thanks. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm just I'm feeling a little discouraged. Um, a year ago, my husband and I were on baby step four. We had two full-time jobs, three additional income streams. Um, but in the last 12 months, my husband lost his job. We're down two income streams. Um, we had to deplete our emergency savings, use some retirement funds, and go into debt. And um we are >> we well we I guess I can explain that.

>> You didn't have to, but you did. Why?

>> We were trying to get out of debt by selling one of our properties. Um >> you got into debt, you said.

>> Yes. Because it took us longer to sell the property and we had to put more into it to sell it than we were expecting to.

>> But why did you not just go get the job and replace the income?

>> Uh I'm sorry. Which job? the one he lost. >> Oh, he he did he found another job. Um but it he had to take a pay cut.

>> Okay. There's a lot of have to in this story. All right. And um Okay. How can I

best help, Darling?

>> Well, so we we are net worth millionaires, but we're struggling to get by month to month, and we recently sold one of our rental properties. Um like I said, to get us out of debt, and we're just at a c crossroads and unsure of what the next best move is.

Okay. Um, if you have if you have a net

worth, so so is your household expenses

too high?

>> Um, yes.

>> Okay. So, what are we doing to cut those?

>> I mean, I've I've cut back on everything. Um, >> what's it take for you to live a year?

>> Uh, rough. Well, including the mortgages

that we have, it's around $15,000 a month. >> Okay. So, you're net worth millionaires, but you've leveraged yourself into real estate and gone broke.

>> You need to be selling every piece of real estate you have except your personal residence.

>> Your cash you're not cash flowing on this mill your million-doll net worth is not paying you enough to justify the expenses that you have.

>> Okay. So, but >> you've got debt associated with all this net worth. So, the net worth is invalid.

>> Okay. But my my husband's income isn't

enough for us to to live off of and we need additional >> It is. If you don't need $15,000 a month to live, most people don't.

>> That's ridiculous.

>> Are you catching what we're saying? What's the biggest chunk of the 15? Give us the real numbers.

>> Uh I mean the two mortgages obviously.

>> So what are those two mortgages?

>> Um one is 4,600 and one is 3,400, >> right?

So sell them, >> right? Well, and and that's that's what I'm saying is we did sell a property and we have >> Yeah, but you're I'm not talking about the property you already sold. I'm talking about the one that's killing you right now.

>> You have houses you can't afford.

>> Okay. It's um I mean it's worth 1.8

million and we have about 26.

>> Wonderful. But it's killing you.

And and then do what with the money?

>> Buy a paid for house that has no

mortgages.

>> Okay? >> You know, you you've got debt that's so high that it is invalidate that is creating personal consumption debt on real estate. You have two houses, neither of one of which are rentals, neither one of which are investment properties. You are consuming $8,000, $9,000 a month in mortgage payments. Am I understanding you correctly?

>> Um, yes, sir. We I mean we have a third rent or a third >> I know, but that those properties right there are creating the $15,000 a month nut you want to crack. Correct.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And you So you bought houses you can't afford, honey. That's what we're saying.

And so get your dad gum outgo where it fits within your income.

And that's called selling these extra houses. You've been living higher on the hog than you can afford.

or than you can afford now anyway.

[Music]

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Chris is in

Wyoming. Hi, Chris. How are you?

>> Good. Yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I just I just wanted to give you guys a call. hard just I mean kind of got going through some struggles and um with debt and um I got fired from my job

on Wednesday and >> Whoa. >> Um so >> that sucks. What happened?

They I they they gave me an evaluation and I I guess I didn't score high enough and I I I think they fired me because of my hearing issues because I was I was born partially deaf and um but I think

they that's part of the reason why they fired me because I couldn't understand things and >> Yeah. You going to speak directly into your phone? Sorry. You got muffled on me there. But you could you had trouble understanding things.

>> What was the job? >> Yeah, I it was I was working at a casino. Um, I was doing surveillance and

um, they just am kind of looking at cameras and answering phones and I think when I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told and um, they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues, but I I kind of think that's what it was.

>> Well, does the and the reason I'm asking this followup is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward. when they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not, did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points?

>> Um, yeah, I do. I do agree.

>> Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey. You don't have to do that. It's muffled.

>> Um, yeah. So, um, yeah, I I do agree

that I I was I was having a hard time understanding things that they were the task that they were giving me.

>> Okay. Okay.

And um so you your biggest crisis is

you're unemployed.

>> Yeah. Um, I'm unemployed and um, my wife

can't work cuz uh, she's she got a she

tore her she tore her femur back when she was in the military and she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long and um, so it's just it's been hard

to trying to take care of of her, myself and our three kids and um,

>> are you aware of are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue.

>> Um, for like 15 20 15 to 20 plus years,

I was doing like physical work, like warehouse type work, cuz it really didn't involve a whole lot of I mean, I still had to hear things, but it wasn't as bad as, you know, having to like I didn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that. And >> um, so I've been trying to get back into that again. It's just and with winter hours coming up, it's just kind of been more harder to get into that again. How how did you lose your hearing?

>> Um I was born with I was born with it.

Um it come it was genetic.

>> Okay. Do you have hearing aids?

>> Um yeah I do. Um I I went through the the Wyoming workforce and >> but they're not working. >> They were um they they're working. Um

they they they've been a big help. Um but even even after I got the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time. Um, so I I try to do

everything the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing.

>> Well, the the casino is a very noisy place and even with hearing aids that can be a problem. Well, I'm I'm worried about your location. It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where you are. Is that what I'm understanding?

>> Yeah. Um cuz I mean I'm I'm in here in

Cheyenne and they usually when winter

starts coming up that's when they kind of a lot of places you know cut back hours and because they're fully staffed and it's harder to get into places and

um >> Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys? Just your basic expenses. What do you need?

>> Um I mean my my rent. Um, I mean it it's

my rent, my electric. Um,

I mean I don't have to worry about like gas or anything. >> Give me a number. Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

>> Uh, and in all honesty, I mean, I I honestly don't know. Um, can't really

figure out a number. Um, it's usually about like I think like 3,000 a month.

That's usually where all my bills are at.

Um because I got two vehicles and then

you know my kids taking care of the expenses for them too and the food and all that stuff. And um >> you have two car payments.

>> Yeah, I have two car payments. I have um I have a my truck payment which is $740

and then my car payment's 360.

I don't know what in the world planet you're on that you think you can afford a $700 truck payment.

>> Uh when I was working with Walmart, um I I got fired from them the same year in January. >> Why did you get fired from Walmart?

>> Um because of my attendance because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then my mental health. Um I uh I was

leaving a lot and I was calling off a lot because of my mental health. And I ended up after I got fired, I ended up >> What was What's the nature of your mental health problem?

>> Um, well, when my daughter was born, she

um >> No, your mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem? >> Um, I'm I'm depressed.

>> Okay. Um, >> All right. >> And is your wife on military disability?

>> Um, no. She she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years. And

>> are you on any kind Are you on any kind of disability?

>> Uh, no, I'm not. Um, >> okay. >> I I I tried to get on social security and they they they denied me because I I

I finally got the job at the casino and they denied me because uh >> yeah, >> I was um making too much. And so I >> That would that would be true. That would be obvious. Yeah. Okay. So, what we got to do is we got to figure out a career where you can make some basic income and son, you got to sell your truck.

A $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity.

It's nuts.

So, you got to get rid of the $780 payment. And you guys could go down to one car for that matter. Your wife doesn't work. She's on two canes. I don't think she needs to be driving a lot. So, um, you got and and then you're

going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable. Any good suggestions, Ken?

>> Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because you're going to have to get back into that space and what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now, you can't accept limitations.

I understand depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire

household is relying on. So yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work, I'm showing up and and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, "Hey, here's what happened to me. I'm going to power through it." I mean, anything and everything right now. Two and three jobs. You have got to get enough money that maybe seeing not maybe I'd see a therapist. I I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help because a professional can help you uh with some tools to power through the depression and um it's this is desperation time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this. >> So sorry. >> Uh I'm I'm 100% sure we got to get your

income up and I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, uh, you create a sustainable situation mathematically and that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got. So

>> keep it up, dude. Keep pushing. Keep fighting. You can do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Carlos in Texas and he gives us some context from a Newsweek article that I'll read first and then his question. The federal government will accept Vinmo payments from citizens who want to help pay off the national debt.

The Treasury has begun accepting Vinmo transactions as contributions toward the national debt, which currently stands at

$36 trillion.

I I made it through that, James, without laughing. Uh, but now Carlos's question based on this excerpt. What is your opinion on the new option of being able to voluntarily Vinmo the US government

to help pay down the national debt?

Well, my opinion is comes from one of my favorite movies uh where Anthony Hopkins

uh plays this old man who's had a stroke uh and now it hits I said it's one of my favorite movie movies. What is that movie where Brad Pitt's in it and he's the old and they're coming for his land.

>> Somebody bail me out, James. What is that movie name? >> Uh, Legends of the Fall. Legends of the Fall. >> And they come over and his son comes up to old Anthony Hopkins who suffered a stroke and he has a chalkboard around his neck. That's how he communicates with his family. And they say, "Dad, they're offering us land. The government's offering us money for our land." And he says, his mouth is all crooked. He leans in. He says, "Screw

screw." [Laughter] That's my answer. That's my answer. Are

you kidding me? The government came up with this idea that we're going to Venmo my money when they already tax me too much. Dave, my blood pressure is unhealthy. >> It's not good for you. >> Take the ball away from me. >> This is bad for you, Ken. I could tell this is not You know, your mental health now, Ken. >> Dave, I need to take the rest of the show off. My mental health is too

fragile right now. I I've not heard this. Have you heard of this? >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's wonderful because there's always some idiot out there who says um that we're, you know,

everyone should pay their fair share and I would be willing to pay more. Someone always says that when they're talking about tax the rich, right? Oh, sure. I >> so I always wanted them I you know, we had that argument many years ago here in the state of Tennessee. we ran a governor out of office that tried to bring in a state income tax and um

>> um he was confused and the people here didn't want that and so glorious >> anyway anyway so yeah but there were all these libby that were saying you know like oh well I would pay more and like well you can just send them a check you doofus >> right >> and so if you want to pay more because you're just think this that this is the whole thing's such a great operation then send yeah sign up for Vinmo baby have at But the rest of us who have something akin to common sense would be like, "Screw it." >> Right?

It's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. >> You got to be kidding.

49% of Americans pay zero >> That's right. >> federal income tax.

Do you know that 51% of us carry the whole thing?

That's not helping my blood. >> Zero federal income tax.

>> So, please don't talk to me about fair share ever again.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I I'll help you with this. So,

everybody ought to be paying something.

>> Yeah. >> I don't care if you make $5 and you pay a nickel. I don't care. You ought to be paying a little something. Everybody pays a little something. And you know, and so we can start arguing about flat tax now. And that would be fair if I pay

10% of my income and you pay 10% of your income and I make a lot more so I pay a lot more. That's fair. Um the way it is now is not fair. So um but it's not

equitable. But anyway, so yeah, if you want to pay some more into the government, I think it if you're the type of person that believes this is a good idea, I think you should do it.

>> You know what? That's actually true. If you're that stupid, then you shouldn't have any money anyway. So go ahead and send it to the same organization that ran up the debt to 36 trillion and steaming towards 40 trillion. It's the most it's just nonsensical. So sure. Yeah, you should. Yeah, you should do that.

>> You know, they just did that to just just for you and me. >> Is that a fake question? Is that just to see if >> 100% real? But I knew it would be gold with y'all, too.

>> I feel like I need a whole bottle of Pepsid AC just chewing on them after that question. Yikes.

>> Rashelle is in Texas. Hi, Michelle. How are you?

>> Hey, it's uh not Relle. She chickenened out. I'm her husband.

>> Okay. So, what's the uh what's the what's the chicken husband's name?

What's your name? >> Uh the chicken husband's name is Charles. >> Hey, Charles. How are you, man?

>> I'm good. And thank you for taking our call. I've been listening to you guys for a long time. >> Thank you. How can we help, sir?

>> Uh so, I'm active duty military. Uh and my wife and I, we we're going to be getting transferred out to Hawaii for our next unit. Uh we're kind of at an

impass right now. We're finished with baby step five and uh we're considering

buying a house, but as it sits right now with the math that we've done, it seems like buying a house in Hawaii uh is going to tie up so much of our liquidity. It just seems like it'll do better invested in good growth stock mutual funds. We're hoping to get your opinion on that. Thank you for your service. Yeah, we appreciate you. And um

>> the way we coach the military and we coach a lot of folks in the military over the last 30 years >> is um there are sometimes and when you

make a move for two years that you will buy a house, but most of the time you shouldn't. Most of the time you should rent. And here's the math and the reason. Most markets, most real estate

markets on average do not increase

enough during the 2-year period of time that you're there to uh to to be able to sell it and make

money. You will lose money on the transaction. And most real estate markets move slowly. Now, you're moving into a Wahoo, I assume.

>> Yep, that's correct. >> Yeah. And so, uh, you know, the Wahoo market has a lot of military saturation,

a ton of it. And so, there's always a

good amount of military type housing for

sale, which means it's harder to sell it when you get ready to move. Now, if you've got the money to play in a non

military neighborhood, so to speak, that maybe you could the thing if it goes up in value fast enough and you can sell it

quick enough, those are the two variables, you can make money, then it's okay to buy. But probably in a Wahoo, you're probably going to be better off renting. Uh the transpose that with we

were working doing some stuff with Seal Team and uh they're in San Diego market, right? San Diego real estate generally is going up very quickly and generally sells very quickly and it's not saturated with military and so that's a

market you could Virginia Beach is another one the market you can move into and out of and make money but if you're going to be stationed in the middle of a Kansas cornfield and it's all military around you because the only thing in the

entire area is military you're always going to have a bunch of military people that moved off and their houses are for sale or for rent and it it screws up the market and makes it hard to sell. And so you can end up with 273 days on the market, nine months to get out of the stupid thing, and you're gonna lose your butt. So I I think you're gonna when you

investigate a wahoo, you're going to figure out that you're going to lose money if you buy for two years.

>> I got it. And and also an an additional worry that we have is our next unit will almost guaranteed be Kodiak Alaska and my pay is going to drop pretty significantly off that Aahu pay. So with

the house not being paid off >> Yeah. >> which again we we calculated out. I don't think we'll be able to pay it off in time if it's a $800,000 house for example. >> Yep. >> Uh when we when we go to Kodiak we wouldn't be able to make that work. The pay would just be too >> Exactly. And again, Kodiak is going to be a lot of military in that market.

Right. >> Right. >> Real strong military consideration. And so, um, it's, um, yeah. So, thank you

for your service. And but what I'm going to be doing is piling up money. And when you are stationed in an area that makes that is a vibrant real estate market that is not saturated with military, you can make money. Then it's okay to buy.

Otherwise, I would rent and pile up money for when I retire and then I'm gonna from the military and then I'm going to go by when I hit my 20 year or whatever it is you decide to to walk on it. Again, thank you for your service.

[Music]

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Brittany is in Huntsville. Hi Britney, how are you? I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, my husband and I just started Financial Peace University and downloaded Every Dollar and we are struggling with whether or not we should do the snowball out of order. Um, so

right now other than mortgage, our only debts are about 22,000 on my vehicle

that I drive and about 31,000 on my student loans, which are broken up into seven different loan groups. So the loans would technically be the smaller debts that we should snowball first, but I am pregnant and due in 6 months. My current car won't safely fit two car seats for our toddler and new baby. So, like it I feel like I should focus on the car first and was just wondering what you all think on that.

>> So, you owe how much on the car? $32,000

and it won't hold car seats.

>> $22,000. It was a RAV.

>> Yeah. 22. The 31.

>> What's it What's it worth?

>> It's worth about 22 with tradein value.

Kelly Blue Book said we could get 24.

>> What's your What's your household income?

um about $150,000.

I'm currently a stay-at-home mom, so that's all my husbands.

>> Okay. And what does your husband drive?

>> He has a lease deal through his job.

He's an engineer for Toyota. So, he's >> What does he drive?

>> A Tundra truck. >> Okay. What year is your RAV 4?

2021 I think.

>> Okay. So, who told you that the RAV 4

cannot accommodate two car seats safely?

>> So, I guess I told me that because our

current car seat and our infant car seat for my toddler that we had, we just upgraded his. Neither of those will fit behind the driver's side without touching the seat. And they're supposed to be a 1 to two inch gap. Well, the manufacturer says that you can actually on the 2019 and later models, you can sit uh you can put three car seats in there. So, I'm not trying to counterpoint you, but you've created this narrative that's completely false.

>> Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I'm fine with selling the RAV. Why don't you just sell it and buy a $10,000 car?

>> Okay. >> That's a van. Buy a $10,000 minivan.

>> Okay. And that reduces your debt from 22

to 10.

>> Well, we So the the thing is is like we just started doing Ramsey Solutions financial planning. So we have

$10,000. Like we could buy $10,000.

>> Great. Go buy a $10,000 car and sell the rev. And you got rid of $22,000 worth of debt. Yay.

>> Okay. Okay. Perfect.

>> 10ou a $10,000 minivan though. Not a

$30,000. >> Yeah. That's what I thought we were leaning towards. >> No, no, no. The So, we were just looking

at it because we were trying to figure out We thought we were upside down on the car. Turns out we aren't, which is good. >> That's awesome. Yeah. Just get out of it. And then then you've all you got to do is fight through the student loans and you're driving a $10,000 car and you make 150 and you got a baby. This is awesome. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. But just fight through the student loans then. And uh but but you always use these things as a reason to go backwards.

The reason we were all Ken and I were both dancing over here on the other side of the microphone is 90% of the time that somebody calls with your question Britney. They want to move up in car. >> That's what I thought. Exactly what I thought.

>> I just want a bigger vehicle. I I don't know. My >> I don't blame you. That little RAV is a tiny little It's a tiny little wishes it was a Jeep car.

Yeah.

it's Yeah. And I don't blame you. I mean, that's kind of weird. Thinking about babies in the back of it's weird in my mind. So, I don't mind. Yeah. But but move down in car and take your 10 grand and let's accelerate this whole process. Okay.

>> Okay. >> You get to get to accomplish both goals in a positive way.

>> Okay. >> That's what I would do. >> Yeah. Very cool.

>> And I'm glad you gave perspective because that's what I thought we were being set up for. >> I did too. I did too. Most people That's what most people do and we're we have to be careful about because everybody that calls us, not most people.

So, >> hey, listen. Full confession. My mom held me in her arms. That's how old I am.

>> I know. Yeah.

What is happening? >> But the RAV is a tiny little >> I get it. I get it. >> It's a tiny little >> I get it. I was wrong. >> It's a Jeep that needs you to add water to. I mean, it's too small. >> A Chia car. >> It's a Chia car.

>> I like that. I like that works. Grant is in Montana. Hey, Grant. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you?

>> Great man. How can we help? >> You're taking my call. >> Sure. Um, so I'm looking for some help or some guidance on uh whether the balance whether uh taking care of my father is a priority or building a life

uh with my girlfriend uh slash soon to be wife. Um I started my life over at

25. I got sober, built a career for myself and uh about two years ago I had

to move in with my father. Um he's

disabled, not able to take care of his

home and property. Um >> how old is he?

>> Uh 68. >> And what is the nature of his disability?

>> Uh he's confined to a wheelchair. Um he

has some some spine issues that >> How long has he been? >> Surgery helped?

>> Um about five years now.

>> And you've been with him for five years?

>> No, I've been with him for two years. Uh two years ago, the HOA sent him a letter. Um I had been mowing the lawn and taking the trash out and doing what

I could. Um but I lived about a half

hour away and so um we just made the

decision. >> So are you planning to live with him for the next 10 years?

>> Um that was my plan. Um kind I I was

single at the time that I made this decision and then >> Okay. Yeah. Girl came along.

>> So now you're not planning to live there for 10 years.

>> So we have to have a plan for dad and a plan for your life.

>> They don't have to. They don't have it doesn't have to be either or. It should be both. But the plan for dad might not be that you live there. It might be that we figure out some other way that he gets cared for.

>> Sure. So, what we've done is is in

preparation for that plan or um whatnot,

he spent a lot of his retirement. Um he

he retired pretty early. Uh he retired when I was about 15. I'm 34 now. Um so,

he spent a lot of his retirement. Sort of the big thing he has left is is the house. Um but we took the house and put it in a trust of which I'm the beneficiary now. um in preparation for you know him

being moved on to Medicaid at some point. >> You understand Medicaid is welfare?

>> Yes. >> And you understand that welfare nursing home is a different level of care?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we're not. >> So, you're planning to put him in a Medicaid nursing home so you can keep the house?

>> That was not my plan. Um that was what

he wanted to do in case he had to go on Medicaid because they have >> Yeah. like a fiveyear look back period.

>> They sure do. They sure do.

>> Yeah. >> And um the trust doesn't help at all.

They can undo the trust, but on the 5-year look back. So, it's got to be five years. Has it been five years?

>> Yeah. >> No, we just put the house into the trust last year. So, >> so you got four years that you're going to continue this. If you're going to continue this, probably not going to work. I think uh you're selling the house >> so that your dad can use his money to care for him so that you can and he gets

a he gets a sustainable situation. He can't live in this house without help and he doesn't have the money for the help and you're not the help anymore.

>> Well, that's that's where I I struggle.

I don't >> um >> I don't no dad no dad that is a good man

wants his kid to have no life >> when he's sitting on a house that the money from the house will take care of him. You're supposed to go on and have a life, young man.

And um you can take care of your dad.

You can set up a situation where your dad is cared for with the equity from this house moving into a onelevel house.

A situation where he's got care with the money that's the equity cuz he's blown his retirement. and then you go on and have a life in the process. These things are not in congruent.

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EJ's in Philadelphia. Hi EJ. How are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, um, my fiance and I are getting married in about a month and, um, we're

about to receive $20,000, um, as a gift, not for the wedding, but because we're getting married and we wanted to know >> Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Um, and we wanted to know what would be the best direction to or the best place for us to put that money. Um, so just for some context, uh, we just finished school,

um, her last December and me, uh, over this past summer, and we just started working full-time.

And, uh, the only debt that we have is,

um, $18,000 in student loan. Um, and so

we're trying to figure out if we should

um save that money and snowball our debt

or um or move into a better place or

whatever. And I I just wanted to know what you think would be a good uh

direction for us to go in with that money. >> Yeah. The problem with this is it's when

you get a gift like this in a situation like this, it's $20,000 and it feels emotionally like it's $200,000, >> right? >> I mean, it's just exciting and wonderful and what a wonderful generous gift. And

um and then if you want to do something that's nonsexy but smart with it, it's hard >> because it's emotional. And um so you

know the answer to what we would teach you at Ramsay to do with any money >> that you get it from any source is to

work the baby steps. Why? Because that's the shortest path to wealth and put you

in a position to do anything else you want to do, >> which is generosity, change your family tree, buy a house, all those kinds of

things. And so we're always going to do that. But with a gift like this, it's very hard because this has got such sizzle on it that it's different than

uh you know, Dave, I got $20,000 in a mutual fund. What do I do with it? That's different than I got a wedding gift and I'm newly married and newly graduated. It it just has that's got a lot of sizzle on it. You see what See what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it it makes it very hard for you to do what I'm going to tell you to do, which is just pay off your student loan, man. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm thinking Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's hard to say. Yay. Yeah.

>> Yay. Let's use that money.

>> Yeah. That's a Yeah, I got it. I'm trying to I set you up, man. But I mean, I'm I'm I understand the feels on this.

So, uh, but yeah, cuz the faster you get

out of debt, the faster you have control of your most powerful wealth buildinging tool, which is not the 20,000, but is your income. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah. >> So, what is your what's your income going to be now, the two of you?

>> Um, so I work two jobs and I make around

90,000 a year and my fiance uh makes

around 55,000.

>> And those are your post-graduates jobs, right?

>> Uh, yeah. She's in her field that she studied. I um I went to school for ministry and I worked that part-time.

Okay. And I do um HVAC and plumbing full-time, which I did not go to school for. >> Yeah. That's but that's not unusual. Yeah. 80% of pastors are b by vocational in America today. So, >> Right. >> Um All right. So, the uh uh All right.

So, you got $140,000 household income.

>> Yes. >> And you're how old?

>> Uh I just turned 22.

>> Oh, see that's awesome, man. You're killing it. Yeah. >> And now you got no debt >> because of this wonderful gift. It's just it's just >> it's just emotionally hard to do that.

But it's the smart thing to do. It is what I would do >> and it's what I'm going to tell you to do. And if you were my son who was 22, I would tell you to do this and I'm going to tell you to do this cuz I love you.

But I'm also admitting simultaneously that it absolutely has no sizzle. And it's a sizzle gift with a wah wah wah

suggestion. Yeah, >> but but the faster you get out of debt, the faster you can build wealth, the faster you'll be able to have a nice family, the faster you'll be able to do all these things. And it just I'm going to get you there as fast as I can every time. And I'm a thousand% consistent on

this. Kenneth is in Georgia. Hi, Kenneth. How are you?

>> Hey, doing great. Thanks so much for having me today. >> Sure. What's up?

>> I just discovered the uh Ramsay plan this past summer and it's really click with me. I've been enjoying it so far.

We are on baby step two. But uh my wife and I are thinking about having a second child and I just wanted to make sure that financially this is something we can afford. It's not going to crush us.

I'm in a little bit more of a house than I really should be. Uh we're having a

mortgage payment of about $4,100 a month whereas we take home about $12,000. Uh I

do have a side gig that brings in about two to four extra thousand a month. So that does help a lot. But uh >> that makes that number work as long as you do that >> until your other income goes up. if you're going to keep the side gig cuz otherwise you can't afford the house. You're right. But that's not too bad.

>> Okay, good. >> Why Why would you not be able to afford a baby? I don't understand. >> Oh, we've just been having repair bill after repair bill with this house.

It needs a new roof. It's got foundation issues. We had to replace the entire HVAC. We've got to set up a new drainage unit.

And I don't know, maybe I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Maybe this is an emotional thing, but I'm just worried. Can I afford this? Am I going to sink myself?

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, if you got to trade a money pit for a baby, I'd trade for the baby. Well, that's pretty easy to call.

>> Yeah, that's an easy decision. So, sell the money pit and go get you something else. If you think if you don't think the uh repairs are done, sometimes these things go in waves, though, right? I mean, maybe you just finished your last wave of repairs and you won't have any for a while.

>> That would be nice. Yeah. >> I don't know. If that's the case, it's emotional. >> Yeah. Uh if it's not if it's not you're observing a a logical pattern and you're

wise to con be concerned.

>> Okay. >> So you got to decide which one of those it is. Do you think it's over?

>> Uh I think that these are one-time repairs. I think that >> well each of the ones you named are but I mean is the is the pattern over or are we in a money pit?

>> That's what I'm I'm worried about. I'm patterns over.

>> It's about 25 years old and we've been in it for about a year.

>> So, uh, you've been through the other mechanicals, the water heater, the dishwashers, all that's new.

>> We have replaced the dishwasher. We've not replaced the water heater yet.

>> 25 year water heater is done, bud.

>> Yeah, it's going to need it real soon.

>> Yeah. So, you you got some things like that that are aging out that are what we call functional obsolescence in the real estate business. So, they're functionally obsolete.

>> And so, um, you know, that's the age of the house. And that doesn't mean it's a money pit. It just means it's an old house. >> And so, um, >> you know, one of our houses is 13 years old and I'm putting a roof on it this week. >> And I just put a heat and air system in it. So, it's same thing. I just both of them went at the same time. And so, um,

you know, that that's just it just kind of goes with the calendar is what I'm saying. And so if if you think you're facing that, then you may want to buy a newer property that's a little different and a little less expensive maybe. And that is your family plan planning.

>> Yeah, I I would have wanted to know is there an emotional attachment for you and the wife? Doesn't sound like you're too emotionally attached to it, but is she? But I I I agree. I would uh take my losses early. I talked to a great real estate pro uh and do some homework on

this house. What needs to be done is is what's done already enough to move the house. I mean, I think you need to know all the information that you're dealing with because you're clearly frustrated.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I just learned a new phrase. I got to figure out how to use it this week. >> Functional obsolescence. >> I got to tell you, that's impressive. I don't know that I could get it out. I got to practice that one in front of the mirror. It's the obsolescence. That's a tough word, but that's a new one for me.

I feel like if I drop that in the right room, >> comes out of my real estate training back in the day. Way back in the day.

Yeah. So, >> I thought you were going to say it comes out of somewhere else. I don't know where you were. >> It does that, too. But the the uh but the Yeah, the the >> functional obsolescence. Did I get that right? Yeah. >> All right. I think >> Well, I mean, you know, with vehicles, it's planned obsolescence, right?

>> See, now you're showing off.

>> You've heard that. No, I mean, the whole the whole auto industry plans for the car to deteriorate in a certain number of years. >> I feel smarter because I now know about functional obsolescence and planned obsolescence. Not a book that's coming to you anytime soon. But I do like that.

I know that. >> Not a title that would sell.

>> Yeah. Not a good idea.

>> We're gonna probably back right off of that on the Ramsay personality title list. >> It's not going to not going to make the cut. >> Yeah. But the deal is stuff wears out.

Hello. That's all That's all it means. It's not It's not a >> It's just a John Deloney word that means stuff wears out. That's all it is.

>> It's a good Scrabble word. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. If you could spell it.

>> I couldn't. >> I'd have to look it up. And I think that's illegal in Scrabble.

What do I know?

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show and the fair winds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

He's also host of the Front Row Seat Show on Ramsey Network, which is exploding. If you've not watched this long form interview show, there's a little bit of everybody been on there already. Uh, you don't want to miss it.

Be sure and check it out. Benjamin is with us in Seattle. Hi, Benjamin. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how we doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

love to hear it. Uh, I got a question about rolling over my current 401k

into a Roth IRA even though I'm still employed with the 401k.

>> Don't think you can do it.

>> Okay. >> You can roll it into a Roth 401k inside your company. Does your company have a Roth 401k option?

>> Yes, it does. >> Okay. You can move it there, but I don't think you can move a 401k while you're still employed.

Gotcha. >> Of any kind, traditional Roth, anything.

So, uh, how much is in it?

>> Not much. It's around 30 grand.

>> Okay. So, you're going to create about $7,000 in taxes. Okay.

>> Okay. >> When you do that, cuz it's all you're going to take a non- taxed item and make it taxable that year. Do you have an extra $7,000 laying around to pay the taxes?

>> Uh, the 401k is a Roth 401k.

>> Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh, you just wanted to roll it out to an individual from the Roth 401k. I thought

you were in a traditional 401k. I'm sorry.

>> Uh Roth 401k into a Roth IRA.

>> Gotcha. Okay. Can't do it while you still work there, I don't think.

>> Gotcha. >> Don't need to unless you get why you just got crummy options or what?

>> Yeah, crummy options. Um, it's a 2% match and so just not getting a lot

there. Uh, my Roth IRA has probably 40

grand in it. So, I was just thinking if I had more a bigger number in one account, more growth versus, you know, two accounts.

>> No, two account. If let's let's pretend that one that the current individual is

returning 10% and your company was returning 10%. It's the exact same thing as if you put them together and they return 10%.

>> A big a bigger number does not make you more money unless the percentage is different. The percent of return is different. You follow me?

>> I do. >> Okay. So, and besides that, I don't think you can move it until you leave the company anyway. So, I think you're there. And the 2% matches 100% on 2%.

That's pretty good. You got 2% before you got started. So, yeah, just be careful and pick out good options. Make sure you're fully funding the individual one. And um there we go. That's one of

those math things that um there's a

couple of those that float around in the culture, Ken, that are um interesting.

And I don't know.

Uh I don't know. I a lot of people think

that if I put all my accounts together in one big lump sum and I make the exact

same interest rate that I'm going to make more money. You'll make more actual dollars, but you don't make more than the total would have been anyway.

>> Correct? Because the sum hasn't changed.

It's just now consolidated versus >> the total principle that is earning has not changed. It's just in being in one pile being in six piles doesn't matter.

>> Right? Assuming the piles are paying exactly the same for purposes of this math brittle. >> Yeah. The other one is funny is uh I don't want to pay off my mortgage because I've already paid all the interest. >> Correct. >> And that's not true. You don't you don't you don't prepay interest at all on an amateurization mortgage. A standard mortgage is calculated like simple interest. And we can walk you through that for the fun of it. Okay. You take your annual percentage rate, say 6%.

divide it by 12, which would be your monthly percentage rate. So that would be a half a percent per month. And so you're paying a half a percent on that month's outstanding balance. When you look at your amateization schedule and you say, "What number of dollars of my monthly payment is going towards

interest this month?" You're going to find it to be, if you have a 6% mortgage, exactly half percent of whatever is outstanding right now. Tada.

And that's called a simple interest calculation. But the amateization schedule because it starts out with the largest possible balance. So more is going to interest on on the first payment than ever will again.

>> And every time you pay a payment, it the more goes to principal, less goes to interest. More goes to principal, less goes to interest. Every time you pay a payment and because you pay so much interest on the front end like that, it makes people think they're prepaying interest. And they're not. >> That's right. you're only paying exactly what you owe there. So there's no disadvantage at any time to pay off a mortgage. No disadvantage mathematically. You only paid what was appropriate. And so if you

prepay if you send them an extra $10,000, um it slides you forward in the amortization schedule. So figure out what your principal balance is. 290,000 a day. move over in the amortization schedule 280,000 and that's what your next payment will look like, not your next payment >> because now you have $10,000 less that that half a percent this month is being multiplied on 280 versus 290 in my example. Okay? And so um bunch of math

gibberish there, but all of that to say it's there's this interesting mythology that runs around then people make bad decisions on that. I guess the other one that uh that those don't aggravate me, just I'm a math nerd. But the one that aggravates me is where people just go ahead and transfer their house prior to

death.

I'm going to just deed this to my kid.

It's a $200,000 house and I'm just going to give it to him and I'm 60 years old and then I'm going to live in it. Well,

honey, there's just so much that you don't understand about what you just screwed up.

Number one, when you give someone an asset that's $200,000, you just inherit you just got gift tax. And when you get audited, they're going to tax you at 55% of that gift. O the gift tax is horrendous. So, you can't just decide, I'm just going to give somebody money there. You have to go through a few little tax moves in order to do that.

You can do it, but you have to file some forms and do on the unified estate tax credit. There's a way to do it, but you also just lost what's called stepped up basis on that. So, here let me help you with this. Mom and dad bought the house in 190 whatever, right? And so, they

have almost they paid almost nothing for it. And so, when you get the house as a

gift, your basis for calculating capital

gains is what their basis was, which is

nothing.

And so when you sell the house, you're going to pay capital gains on the entire amount because you geniuses deeded it to

you before they died. If instead you got

it upon death, you get what's called stepped up basis. And that means that

when you sell a house within 6 months of the death of the person that owned the house or a stock, either one, it's

presumed that you sold it for market value and your basis is market value.

zero taxes.

So capital gains tax on $200,000

is $30,000 bucks.

So a nice little $200,000 home, you just

made a $30,000 error. Try doing it on a million dollar house. Yeah, you just made a $150,000

error. Not to mention gift tax if you did it wrong. just because I'm just gonna do this to my kid because I think I don't want the government. And you just screwed up the whole stinking thing because you didn't know what you were doing and you didn't get some good advice.

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Everybody needs insurance, but it It can be hard trying to find the pro who isn't

just looking to make a buck. Agents who know their stuff, they're hard to find.

With a Ramsay trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with sleazy business or slimy salespeople. A lot of sleazy, slimy stuff out there because we interview these guys, we vet them, we coach them to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Go to ramseolutions.com/coage to find the type of insurance you're looking for. Connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the show notes. Stephanie's in Orlando. Hi Stephanie. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good. Um, well, I've I'm recently engaged and um I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a house before we get married or wait till after.

>> Absolutely not.

>> Please don't. >> I'm trying. I'm gonna beg you not to >> not to wait. >> No. No. Don't buy a house until you're married. >> Don't buy a house. No. Of course. I don't want to buy a house with him. So, I'm But he has some debt. So, I'm trying to figure out should I should we get married to help him pay the debt off and then we buy a house or >> or should I go ahead and buy the house on my own first?

>> No.

>> Do you think Dave's being clear enough?

Sometimes he's fuzzy. Okay. Let me let

me stop that, Stephanie. I'm sorry. That's not fair. I need to tell you why.

Okay, here's the thing. You're getting ready to join your lives.

The best way for you guys to become wealthy is for you to join your lives.

Combine everything, assets, liabilities, incomes, and we we together are aligned on our steps and what our future and and

and what the future looks like and the steps to get there. Okay? And when you do that, you it's a major plus for your

relationship because when you can agree on your spending, you're agreeing on your fears, your dreams, your life.

That money is not important, but where it goes speaks loudly who you are and

what you dream about.

And when the two of you combine and in

the old marriage vows it used to say richer for poor sickness and in health unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge

and it creates a unity in a a a joined

approach. What ends up happening, and we

see it in the actual factual data 10 years later after you're married, is you have what we end up calling in the financial world the marriage advantage to where a 35-year-old married couple has a net worth that is far beyond a

couple of single people that are 35.

>> Right? So even even if that means delaying some things.

>> No, it's it's just a m not delaying them much, but it just we're putting them in an order that might not be comfortable,

>> right? >> So, we're going to pay off the debt. We're going to build an emergency fund. Then we're going to get a big down payment and buy a nice home on a 15-year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. You're going to start putting 15% of your income away towards retirement after that, and you're going to become very, very wealthy in about a decade.

>> Yep. Exactly. because I'm I'm there now on my own, but seeing that, you know, my plan is to join as you know.

>> So, how much do you have in savings that's not retirement?

>> Um about 50,000 right now.

>> And how much debt does he have?

>> He has about 31,000.

>> Perfect. When you get back from the honeymoon, pay it off.

>> That's kind of what my thought was cuz I still want to save some more money for a down payment cuz even 50,000 >> is just okay. pay off the debt and then you've got a combined household income of what when you come back from the honeymoon. >> Um maybe around 90,000 95,000 maybe.

>> Good. And so you're what 25 26?

>> Oh, I am 37.

>> 37. Okay. All right. What do you do for a living? >> Um I'm a production planner. So in manufacturing. >> Mhm.

>> What's he do?

>> He's uh in shipping receiving for manufacturing as well. >> Okay. Cool. Cool. All right. Perfect.

So, you are a planner. That's why you're That's why you're lining up on all this immediately. Exactly. The way your mind works, all the numbers written down.

>> That's the way your mind works. And so, >> I've been listening to you guys for 5 years now. >> Okay. Well, you know, you know the baby steps then, and I'm just walking you through them as a combined couple.

We're going to take your 50, pay off his 30, that leaves 20. Now, we've got a $90,000 household income. The 20 is probably your emergency fund. So, we start from scratch real quick.

Build our build our down payment.

Meanwhile, or shortly after buying a home, one of the two, we start baby step 3B or four 15% of your income going into retirement. You've heard all this before, hadn't you? >> Oh, yeah. Plenty of times. >> Yeah. >> Actually, I didn't include my emergency fund in that. I have a three month.

>> Okay. Then you got a 20 head start, not a 50 head start towards your down payment. Good. >> Exactly. >> Okay. If your emergency fund is big enough for our emergency fund, that is.

>> Um, not yet. I don't think with what I think a new mortgage will be.

>> Okay. Well, then yeah, we we'll get there. But I mean that you see you you you know exactly what to do. It's just a matter of when, what, and why. But no, we don't try to uh don't don't look for a hack.

Just go straight through it.

>> Exactly. >> It's the fastest way. It's just It's just not popular. It's not It's not cool. Your friends are going to go, "What? Who gives a crap what you think?

You don't have any money and you don't and you're not living in my house." So, I mean what? You know, I don't you know,

these are not real friends. real friends go, "Yes, you're so smart. You're wise beyond your years. Go do the smart stuff." Yeah, that that's that's very cool. Congratulations. Hey, I'm going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover, the baby steps. You already know them, but I'm going to send it to you anyway as a as a wedding gift. Very cool. That's fun. Yeah, I like the uh I

like how wary she is, you know, not jumping in emotionally. Very solid. Uh and I'd love to know what she has in retirement. We didn't get to that, but I think that they're going to be in great shape. The other thing I would say, we didn't get to this, but for people that are listening, watching this, in a situation like this, and I'm sure she's done this, you want to make sure that this person is is on board with you

before you get married on the finances.

It's not something you want to come in, and in this case, I'm not saying this is happening here, but you want to be careful not to come in, we combine finances, I'm going to pay all this debt off, and they go, "Woohoo!" And then they go get more debt. super important that you got this stuff figured out pre-marriage. Amen.

Loretta's in Texas. Hi, Loretta. How are you? >> I'm just fine. How are you doing today?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I am 64 years old and I'm

so ready to retire, but I'm just worried about my finances.

>> Okay. >> I have um 800 $8,000 in an emergency

fund. I have 12,000 in 401k.

I have 15,000 in savings. My home is

paid off. My vehicle is paid off. And I have no other debt.

>> Okay. And what will you live on if you retire?

>> Social Security. Well, I mean, I can't I can't just retire. I'm probably going to work the rest of my life. But the job that I have now, I am a um a truck

driver. I do super loads. And so, you know, it's physically demanding. It's a lot of work, but you know, at at some point, you know, I want to be home.

>> What do you make?

>> 110,000 a year. >> Okay. Why have you not saved any?

>> And well, I mean, I because I paid off

debt. >> Okay. So, your debt's gone now.

>> My debt is gone now. So >> So, how much longer do you want to work?

and pile up some cash. I mean, why don't you try living on nothing and let's put $100,000 away in the next two years. 50 a year. >> Oo, >> 50 a year. Well, you don't have any payments. >> You're on the road. >> Cuz I don't have I can actually put even, you know, probably put even more than that. >> Good >> because it's just me. Good.

>> So, you know, with everything >> Well, let's not retire on social insecurity.

>> Okay. So hang in there another couple of years and >> and how much how much could you put away out of 110 >> if you go if you go whole hog. You just go all in, girl.

>> 75. >> Okay, that's 150 in two years, right?

>> Yeah. >> All right. Now, that makes you 66 years old. And if you then will set your budget up with no debt to live on your

social security, if you invest that with a Smart Ver Pro and some good mutual funds, it will double every seven years.

So at 73, you'll have 300,000 if you don't touch it and live on the social security. Now you're building a nest egg.

>> Okay? >> And that's where I want you to go. This idea of 12,000 bucks and I'm ready to retire. Uh-uh.

Uh-uh. I I don't want I don't want to live on social security. It's not enough. I've been working too hard all these years. You have for sure, kiddo.

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Jake's in Minnesota. Hi Jake. How are you?

>> Hey there. Thanks for taking the call.

>> Sure. What's up?

I was just calling to ask um me and my wife are trying to figure out if we should work on paying down our current mortgage, which we secured at 2.75%

or if we should be working on saving up our uh savings to get into a bigger home

down the road. >> Pay off your mortgage

as fast as you can. >> Okay. Just >> as fast as you can. >> Go at it. >> Yeah. Just go at it. Now, I mean, you need to be working what we call the baby steps. Have you heard us talk about those?

>> Yep. I'm familiar.

>> Okay. The uh And so, are you out of debt

everything but the home?

>> That's right. >> And you have your emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yes. >> And you're putting 15% of your income into retirement plans.

>> That is something that we've backed down a little bit on recently. Um My wife and I, we don't have great matching from our employers. We've been working on getting that >> doesn't matter. You need to be putting 15% of your income away for retirement in good growth stock mutual funds.

That's going to build wealth for you.

And then beyond that, let's with we any

money we can find in the budget that we want to throw at the house, let's just start paying the house off systematically. And um and th those are

the things that the people that become millionaires the fastest do. They

steadily invest in their 401ks and they pay off their homes. Data after data after data. We've got 10,000 of them we interviewed. We know.

>> Okay. Yeah, we're I think we're um

pretty close to the point where we're almost ready to take the jump on the new home, which is what we've been trying to uh >> Well, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're just going to sell this house and the equity is going to come out of it anyway.

>> Fair. I think we're just trying to make sure that if the right house comes along that we have enough liquid that we don't have to make a contingent offer. Would that ever make a difference? >> No, you have to make a contingent offer because you have to sell the house. You can't you can't take on two mortgages.

>> I think there might be a little room for us to own both for a few months, but yeah, correct. We have >> You don't want to turn yourself into a motivated seller.

>> Thing doesn't sell for 6 months and you're paying payments on it, >> you're going to give the stupid thing away. You don't want to do that.

>> No. >> Good point. We are uh >> calm down. Go take a cold shower. You're getting house fever.

>> Yeah. The uh >> you've been out looking at the weekends at the open houses, hadn't you? Yeah,

>> we've been we've been working on it. Um >> Yeah, you've been working on it. It's working on you, too, dude.

Yeah, >> we're expecting in March and we've just been kind of looking at our current home situation and trying to figure out how we can make that next step happen. But um >> yeah, it's okay to calm down and come go after the baby. I uh a as a husband and

grandpa, I won't recommend you uh plan a move during a pregnancy.

You're not going to be a popular dude.

10 years later, she'll still bring that up to you. that time that you moved me while I was nine months pregnant. Yeah.

She'll remember that for the rest of her life. She won't forget.

>> And I I gotta speak on behalf of all babies. They have no idea how big the house is. Uh a lot of this is just very

natural. >> You're a baby advocate. >> Yeah, I am. I am.

It's the first time I've taken that for babies. I'm here to speak of the people, you know, Dave. I really am. No, I I just hear this a lot from young couples.

And by the way, it's very normal and I'm not in any way judging it, but we start to think, well, this is what the nest should look like and this is what the nest should feel like. And in all reality can get you in real trouble. And the scenario that Dave gave you, we get that call a lot where people they thought it was going to work out and then life has got a different idea and then you're stuck as opposed to being patient here and the baby's going to be fine. You don't need the perfect nursery and all the things.

It just doesn't matter. You're gonna be so exhausted, you don't even want to think about all this. So, I think Dave's right.

>> Yeah. And definitely a contingency.

>> Absolutely. >> That that or sell the house and move into an apartment while you're looking so you don't have You ain't going to do that for sure. >> Two moves. That'll get you in real hot water. >> That's gross. Yeah, it could happen. But yeah. Yeah. No, because here's the thing, honestly. You start talking about 279 on one side of the fence like this is a bargain, right?

>> Okay. Like you got I got this cheap interest rate and dude after the 11th month and the house hasn't sold that cheap interest rate is going to look like it's 27%.

>> Not 2.7. And you're going to be going, "Oh god, I'm just This is killing me. We got to get this house moved." You're going to be calling the realtor every day. You're going to be dropping the price, dropping the price, dropping the price. Then somebody's going to come in and lowball you and you're going to take it. Do not get yourself in that position. And and so uh it's easy. do a

contingency deal or or don't do it. Um

and so like I had one guy he said, "Well, God told me to do it." I said, "No, he didn't." "Yeah, he did." "No, he didn't. I'm positive God didn't tell did not tell you to do that." He said, "How do you know?" Said, "Because the Bible says the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. And there's sorrow

added to your mess you created here." And then you're trying to blame it on God. And God's up there laughing going, "You're just one of my stupid children." You know, and he's got a bunch of stupid children because I've been one of them.

>> Me, too. But that's not fair, Dave. You used God's word to debate God's voice.

That's not fair. You were not playing fair.

>> That's such a pro move, by the way.

That's That's a good That's a flex.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Uh Allan's in Georgia. Hey, Allan. What's up?

>> Hey. How you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh yes, sir. So, I um I've inherited

some land uh from whenever my mom passed away >> and uh just kind of been sitting there not making any money and I think it's probably time to sell. Um >> how much what's it going to bring?

>> Uh conservative 350 to 500.

>> Wow.

Nice inheritance.

>> Very nice. >> 64 acres. >> Thanks, Mom. Wow.

>> Yeah. So, what are you what are you going to do with a 400 500 grand?

>> Well, I kind of wanted to get into uh real estate. Um I've been doing some research on like uh beach condos

um and kind of looking at the I think their return on investment is hovering from 8 to 10% and kind of wanted your

opinion on it or >> where where do you live in Georgia?

>> Uh uh Albany, but it's in Leburg. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

>> The land >> um well the reason I asked is resort

real estate, mountains, beaches,

uh lakes is the most volatile type of

real estate.

It's the first thing that goes up when times are good and the first thing that goes down when times are bad. And that includes the rental income on it.

So, if if you have a if you have some kind of a problem and the economy slows down, you're you're going to you're going to be the first one to take it on the chin. The value goes down and the rentals are hard to keep booked. So, I don't recommend resort real estate as an investment.

>> Okay? >> If you want to buy a toy >> for your family to go stay in at the beach, that's a different discussion.

You pay cash for toys, >> but that's not what you that's not what you said. So, instead I would buy a boring rental property that's steady >> and it's probably close to you

>> or two or three. Okay? >> If you I'd rather you buy two or three 200,000 $150,000 houses in your area there and they'll go up more steadily

than those beach condos will. They won't go up as much during good times, but they won't go down as much during bad times. and you create this tortoise versus the hair type of investment portfolio. >> I've got a question for you on this. 8%

was his goal. He stated it on the call.

Why wouldn't you say just put that in in

our our investment, our four our four buckets that we talk about? Why not invest it in the market? Why even take on the headache uh of real estate?

>> Well, 8% is his cash on cash.

>> Got it. >> That's how much he makes in his pocket, right? versus what he invested.

>> Okay, >> that doesn't count how much it goes up in value every year. >> Fair. >> And it doesn't count that he can also shelter a portion of it by doing depreciation. So those three numbers added together on an 8% are going to sound more like 17%.

>> Okay, got it. Great. >> And then it makes it worthwhile. I look for 8 to 10 on a residential if I'm buying it. Okay. >> On commercial, I look for 10 to 12 cash on cash, but I fully expect to return about 20 on a 12 including it's called an internal rate of return. Okay, >> which includes the increase in value and the write off of the depreciation schedule. >> All right.

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Our

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scripture of the day, James 4:3. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives that you may spend what you get on pleasures.

Our friend Art Laugher said, "It's not true that Congress spends money like a drunken sailor. Drunken sailors spend their own money. Congress spends ours.

>> Fact. >> Fact. Art. You can tell Art used to hang out with Ronald Reagan a lot. That's a great line right there. That's fabulous.

All right. Here we go with Gerald. Uh Gerard in Texas. Hey, Gerard. How are you? >> I'm better than I deserve. Dave, how are you all? >> The same, sir. How can we help?

>> So, uh, my wife and I are on baby step two. We should be done with about 40,000

worth of debt by the end of the year and we're going to be moving on to four, five, and six. I already kind of have plans for retirement and early payoff of the house, but I'm confused a little bit on the college savings side of things.

>> Cool. How old are your babies?

>> Uh, four and seven.

>> Awesomeness. Okay. What are you confused about? So, I I looked at the Dave Ramsey calculator on uh how to save for college

and and what we would be putting aside just based on what we think living expenses are and tuition will be. Um that number seemed high around like 1,100 bucks a month or something like that. Um I didn't know if that was normal to set that much aside in a 529 or a happy medium.

>> I would not do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. What what would y'all recommend as far as how to how to tackle the tuition versus living costs?

>> Yeah, I honestly I I need to go look at that calculator. It sounds like um um so

tuition has averaged 7 to 8% per year

inflation rate.

>> Okay, >> for the last 40 years or so. Um and so it's you know regular inflation is 2 to 4%. Uh average. I mean one year Biden we

had 9.7 but I mean the normal inflation rate is two 2 to7 or two two to four and

then with this so that's what it's going up so you got a you know University of Texas is probably 14,000 right now in

state tuition and so if you wanted to say okay four years of that is um 60,000 bucks right

>> correct >> okay and then add 8% a year for a decade

and that's that's where that that's going to be your tuition cost, right? Um and and so that that's what you would do. And then yeah, we use a 529 because

if you put in, you know, u couple grand or something a year, not a month, but a year, um you're

going to have about 90 or you probably have aboutund 40,000 bucks in there, something like that if you started with the babies. And so you'll have somewhere around 150,000 in there. And a lot of that is growth.

And if it's in a 529 in a mutual fund,

mutual fund in a 529, it's going to grow tax-free for tuition. And so if you have

$100,000 worth of growth, see if you put Okay, let's say you put in $2,000 a year for 10 years, that's 20,000 bucks you put in. >> If there's 120 in there, there's a hundred in growth. You got me?

No t no taxes on that hundred is important >> because that's a $20,000 tax bill, $30,000 tax bill that you're avoiding by

putting it the mutual fund in a 529 for purposes of the kid. And >> that makes sense. >> Yeah. So yeah, I mean couple grand a year is going to take you a long long way towards doing this. And the other thing that we would not have said 10

years ago that we will say today is I think higher education is going to look dramatically different 15 years from now. Wouldn't you Ken? >> I've been pretty bold on that and I I believe you're going to see a decentralization uh you're going to see specialties like obviously medicine law uh look very

similar to how we see them today. But as far as the traditional four years and you got to take a bunch of undergrad stuff and you got the prerequisites before you get to the major, I think that's going to splinter. I think the onset of AI, I think that we are actually at a I think a fever pitch on

what the American people are willing to put up with and I I think when you see >> on the ripoff of >> meaning willing to pay for it, I give you real numbers so you know where I'm coming from. Gerard >> Gallup came out with information this year in a poll. 46% of American parents said they would prefer that their kids go into trades and not into college. Uh

our good friend Mike Row, he's the I call him the Oprah Winfrey of the trades. He's been banging this drum for a long time.

>> You only take that as an insult. Uh but I I do think Dave's right. I don't think you're going to see the exorbitant cost.

I don't think now you got to plan for it, but I don't think you're going to see that. I think we've kind of jumped the shark. >> Well, the student the student loan debacle has um >> Yeah, it's >> has highlighted that uh some of the higher ed stuff is out of control.

>> Yeah. >> And so um I >> I do know that people are going to be more cognizant of what they pay and what they get for what they pay.

>> That's right. >> For sure. And uh so I and I think that's going to create a downward pressure on that inflation number that I gave you of 7 to 8%. So I don't think we're going to they're going to maintain that.

You're going to see Dave P little quick prediction. I think I've been studying this. I think you're going to see private sector competition for traditional education. I think people are going to come along and go, "Wait a second.

We can provide training for what corporate America really wants uh for a whole lot less money and make a ton of money doing it." And you're going to see these outsized tuitions go away because they can't compete with the private sector. Google's doing their own training program, six-month program.

Watch for that. I think that's going to happen. >> All of that to say that if you have put a couple grand a year for a four-year-old and a six-year-old, >> you're going to have a 100,000 plus in there when you get there >> each. And that's going to give you a

real head start into whatever you want to do, >> whether it's a trade, a certification program, or an actual four-year degree.

Um, and um, which I'm not, we're not against four-year degrees. We're just against getting a degree in for four years in left-handed puppetry and from a school where you pay 150,000 bucks a year to go um, so they can brainwash your child into being a communist. And so that that I'm against that. I think that's a problem. And so, um, and as a

parent I or a grandparent, I'm not writing that freaking check anymore and I'm not by myself. So, that that's what we're seeing. So, I think you're to you know, you're doing your individual planning, but you're doing it in context of what is happening culturally right now on this subject. That's why we wanted to comment on it. >> Yeah. >> So, it's it's very good. And Ken, I think it's worth, you know, highlighting a couple things here while we're at it.

you've been working with self-improvement in the self-improvement space and the new show Front Row Seat is helping people learn leadership skills and you know highlighting stories of great men and great women and what they did to get there and you know what we discover every time we do that. If you read biographies of great pe people who are successful in

any function, whether business, ministry, sports, whatever, you you find

um that that they were the secret sauce,

not where they went to school. It's exactly right. >> And uh so the number of times that people become successful due to the particular school that they went to is precisely zero.

And yet we go, well, if he went to Harvard, bull crap. Nobody cares out here is the

problem. It's all theory. There's no

data to back it up. 78% of the Fortune

500 companies are have a CEO that went to a state school. >> Y and >> that's eight out of 10. Shut up.

>> Had a 2.5. >> They didn't go to Wharton. They didn't go to Princeton. They didn't go to,

>> you know, mucky muck school. They went to a state freaking school. Penn State, Michigan State. That's right. University of Tennessee. That's where they went to school. They didn't go to Vanderbilt.

They didn't The 78% of the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies, >> not straight. >> There's data for you. Okay. So, where you go to school doesn't matter.

It's a big deal. >> It's right. And it costs out the butt.

>> Yeah. And we're beginning to see the American people, and this isn't just parents anymore. The young people are going, they're reading the stories. They're paying attention. Their older brothers and sisters, they're going, there's not a value exchange here.

>> No, I can't spend $250,000 to become a social worker for the state of Tennessee with a master's degree and make $38,000 a year. That's dumb butt.

>> That's right. The ROI is not there anymore. >> Just doesn't work. So, you guys got to think about stuff like that. And Gerard, you're very wise to stay on top of the whole idea and be watching and monitoring all this as you go. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat. Heat.

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## 47. Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis | March 17, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal [music] is broken. Common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, [music] number one best-selling author, host of Front Row Seat, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality [music] is my co-host. The phone number here is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it.

The number is triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. Aaron is with

us in San Francisco. Hi Aaron, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you guys? Thank you. >> good. How can we help?

So, I just kind of want to know what to do in my situation and if I'm just being a brat. Um, so my boyfriend and I, we moved in

together into his house. His house is fully paid off, um, but it's managed in a trust by his mom.

I have my own house as well that I got a mortgage on before we met and I pay $3,000 a month. We want to move into my

home and rent out his home, but his mother is stopping us from doing that and, um, she's not going to allow us to fix up his home or anything to get it rental ready. I just I just feel bad because now I'm

paying a mortgage on a home and it's just sitting empty.

I'm not really sure what to do.

Mhm.

Well, so it's not really his house.

No. It's really It's really owned by It's owned by a trust. His mother is the trustee.

Yes. >> Yeah. Um, if she ever sold it, he would always get the proceeds. I think it's written in that way. >> Yeah. Um, from the sale, but

I just I just feel stuck. No, I don't I don't think you're stuck. I think he's stuck. Um how old is he?

He's 39. Mhm.

Well, Um at some point you have to become a man, my son, and decide if your mommy's going to tell you what to do.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you're married >> [laughter] >> you're shacking up with a mommy's boy.

Um Definitely.

>> Yeah. Yeah. She wants us to live in the home for sure. >> what she wants. He's 30 freaking 9 years old. She don't get a vote. So, you know,

I mean, jeez, this is like underdeveloped psychology.

Yes. >> Yeah. And I mean, So, number one, I would not recommend that he completely trash everything over a girl that he's not married to.

You. Fair enough. And so, but if he were married to you and the two of you are trying to set up a life and your and mother is this controlling, I would just wash my hands of that house and say, "Mom, good luck with that house.

Hope it works out for you.

You no longer have a vote and we're not going to live there." Okay. And so, it would be better for us to move into my home, right? And not have it sit empty. >> better for you to do that if you were married.

Yeah. >> But if you're not married, then he's taking a big risk.

Yeah. >> Cuz now he's living in his girlfriend Now he has a roommate that's his girlfriend and she owns the house. He went from one lady owning a house to another lady owning a house.

This guy's yet to get He's still homeless.

Yeah.

No, definitely. You're not wrong there, sir. Yeah. >> At all. Yeah, it's just it's a it's a bad it's a bad thing for for all of y'all. I'm sorry. It's And controlling people just piss you off. I mean, they just do. And she's obviously got issues, right?

Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the reason why I don't want to get married though because until they can resolve whatever it is between them, I don't want to cross that finish >> not marriage material and decide until he decides his mom doesn't get a vote anymore.

I would tell my daughter not to marry him until he grows a backbone.

Cuz his mom tells him what to do. He's 30 freaking 9 years old. What's the penalty that she's holding over his head? That she's going to take him off the trust, getting the house if he moves out? What power does she really leveraging here?

If I understand all the details correctly, there's a few other rentals in the trust and he receives income from

those rentals. We both don't have any consumer debt. You know, we follow all your steps and we try to do our best to live a debt-free life.

Um but he does receive income from those

rentals and um his current job So that

she doesn't have a choice in that. The trustee has to execute the terms of the trust and the terms of the trust are the rental income has to be turned over to him. She can't take that away from him.

And that's what I'm getting at. Uh for you all in your relationship, what he is really facing is her disapproval. She's not threatening him with anything else and Dave just took the teeth out of the the any kind of property threat. That's what I'm getting at. What is he so afraid of? And what he's afraid of is is upsetting mama, which is back to the core issue for your relationship and everything else, but he can leave anytime he wants to leave.

He's just afraid to to piss mom off.

That's what's going on. So that's the bigger relationship issue.

Okay. Yeah, and and and honestly

there's four things that you have to be in agreement on and one of them is how we deal with extended family before you're married. And we're not in agreement about that cuz this has got issues. So yeah, I'd suggest you guys sit down and see a therapist and I guess he can move in with you in your house if you want, but he's really still not dealt with his core issue.

Um and so which is he needs to be an independent human being man-child

and actually do do stuff like man stuff

instead of just, you know, going from mommy to girlfriend.

And >> [clears throat] >> scary stuff. So, uh yeah. Has he ever been married before? Yeah, she's gone.

Oh, she's gone. >> Yeah. Never mind. >> Yeah. So, I don't I didn't see the body.

I'm I'm guessing there's a pattern. I'm also guessing mom doesn't like girlfriend. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Stewart's in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Stewart, what's up?

Hey Dave, thank you for taking my call.

Um so, I'll try to be brief.

My father had a heart attack in 2024 and he started taking his estate a little more seriously and how he would hand it down to my sister and I. And he was advised by a friend of his who is a lawyer for a very prominent American family, but is retired.

Not an estate lawyer.

That he does not need a trust. Probably doesn't. What's his net worth?

I would guess it's somewhere around 1.2 to 1.5 million. He owns the business. He owns all the equipment in there, the building. About a half a million dollars. >> for tax purposes, he does not need a trust.

Unless he's trying to control something from the death bed or from the grave, the trust will help him do that. But um he probably doesn't need a trust. It's probably accurate advice.

Well, one one kind of screwball in this whole thing, curveball, is that we have a special needs brother, my sister and I, and he's been taken care of by the state basically since he was about 10.

And we were hoping to avoid probate in any way possible. We just have a transfer on death benefit at the current situation.

Well, probate's not evil. If you've got a good [clears throat] will, you walk right through it and you're What he does need is in his will, he needs to form a

special needs trust upon his death and the death of your mother to take care of your brother.

A special needs trust is funded at death and then you name a trustee, maybe you or your brother, to manage that loot lump of assets and the income created by that lump of assets takes care of the special needs person.

But that could be That can be formed at death. That's It's not rocket surgery. You A lot of people do it.

And so So would Just sit down with a good estate planning attorney and work on a special needs trust to be part of your dad's estate plan, but he does not need a trust today and there's no big thing on avoiding probate in Arkansas.

Arkansas's not got a huge probate tax.

It's not a big deal.

>> [music]

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>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And Oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. And >> take care of your dadgum family, man.

Term life insurance can replace income, help dads cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

>> [music] >> Have you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in to ask a question or be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour. [music] Experience live Q&A, raw confessions,

crowd debates, and local debt-free screams. The gang is going to be doing it live tapings of this show in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April.

There's only around 300 seats a night.

Better grab your tickets while you can at ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes.

Scarlet is in Boston. Hey Scarlet, what's up?

Hi. To get straight to my point, my parents through a series of recent unfortunate events have disclosed some financial mishaps that have occurred in their life and it basically means that they have no retirement or savings plan beyond the immediate future. My husband and I are Baby Steps Millionaires and I wonder what my obligation is if and when it comes time for them to be taken care of.

How old are they? >> When it comes, they're in their 60s, early 60s. Are they still working?

My dad is. My mom is on disability.

She's unable to work. Mhm. Okay.

And what were the mishaps? What did How did they lose all their money?

My dad had a financial um blow-up

post-2008.

His company was bought by a overseas company and basically stripped. The result being he was sued by many, many people. Eventually filed bankruptcy.

He's now out of that um and has worked just a JOB since, but

it's never been to that level of success he had when he owned his own business.

Mhm. [snorts] How long ago was the Oh, 2008 was the blow-up, right?

Yep. Mhm. Okay.

What does he make?

Six figures. I don't know too much about

his salary cuz a lot of it >> they But they've saved nothing since 2008.

Correct. Um there have been some medical bills. My mom had a stroke and was out

of >> have they don't have a health insurance?

They did. Um the health insurance covered There was a a delay, so they had to front some money and then the insurance company kicked her off the disability um when she was approved initially for it, which is how I came by their financials. I helped them file an appeal and then we went to court to try and with with the insurance company you don't really win, but uh there was a small settlement and that settlement has been spent. Um So, that's how I know through that process with my dad what their financial situation has become.

But the bottom line was after 2008 their heart was broken and they've never been really diligent about saving.

I think they also kept up a lifestyle that Yeah. was >> Yeah. that they couldn't sustain. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, okay.

Yes. So, yeah. They're going to have to stop that, aren't they?

I don't think they have any intentions of doing that. No. >> No. Well, it's um So, uh I don't give a drunk a drink. I'm not going to enable them. And you know you have no moral obligation to take care of anyone. There's no moral obligation.

Uh that's not your husband or your children, minor children.

Uh grown children, you don't have a moral obligation, either.

So, um there but the But you have a want

to. I'd like to help my parents, which just makes you means you have a heart and so forth. But I'm also have this paradox of while I want to help them, they've not done a good job themselves with even even uh notwithstanding the couple things they've run into.

They're just not very diligent about handling their money, and so they're broke. Well, hello.

And so it makes it it makes it taste bad to want to give to have to give them money or to feel like I need to support them. So, um What What I might do is I mean, depends on how frank and how much you want to get up in the up in their face on it.

If I end up having to put money into or or needing to put money in so that you have food, it's going to involve us selling everything you own, and you will be on a budget that I create, and you won't like it.

So, I don't want you to think you're going to be main that you're going to maintain this current set of habits with my money later.

In other words. Now, I don't know how how blunt you want to get, but the closer you come to delivering some kind of a message like that then sets them up to gives them maybe a reason, and I'll coach you guys on how to start saving because you still got some earning years left and some potential left and you can roll up your sleeves and you guys can build a nest egg or there's no reason for you to retire and eat dog food.

But if I'm in charge, we're selling everything and you're in a one-bedroom apartment and I will buy the groceries and pay the rent and you will not like your life.

Uh you will be able to exist and you won't be homeless, but I am not going to send you on Caribbean cruises.

And you got the ability to do that for yourself if you guys are roll up your sleeves now and I can coach you on how to do that. Now I don't again, I don't know how much how far down in this you want to get. It sounds like this stuff has been kind of dribbling out to you.

You've not been involved, you've not been involved and then finally on this one insurance thing you got a little more involved. And I don't think they're asking your help or advice right now.

You just see it's coming, is that right?

Correct. Yeah, I think this is great advice and I I think Dave gave you the financial advice and and I would just add to what he said, you need to create some emotional boundaries. Uh to where you

are prepared for their reaction if this

situation plays out as you fear it might. So that you've already made these decisions like Dave just laid out. But you've now are emotionally, mentally ready for any pushback and there's no guilt that comes in cuz that will be the hardest part of this is to actually execute on what Dave said because there's a powerful pull with the parents, you know? Your generation and all that junk. >> Your generation we call them sandwich generation because there's a pull from entitled parents and there's a pull from entitled grown children.

And and what the the trick the the the way to undo that sandwich is just remove the word entitled.

And it changes everything. You're not entitled to spit.

Neither one neither of you. Grown kids, you're not entitled to spit. Well, my children want to go I don't care. Get your job. Here's an idea.

You know, go to work. And mom and dad, you know, you you've had all you went through this horrible thing with the business. Some of that was your making, some of it wasn't. You went through this horrible thing with the insurance and you didn't take care of that properly. Let me tell you the number of times I front for an insurance company, zero.

And then hope I recoup out of them.

No, I'm going to turn everybody loose on everybody and I'm going to stand back and watch them all fight. Let the insurance company and the provider fight. You guys figure it out and then I'll clean up what's left. But I'm not writing a check and then somebody's got to come in borrow money and then I try to recoup out of the insurance company, not a chance.

Instead, I'm going at their throat right now. And that's that's being proactive rather than just kind of gliding along and there's a lot of gliding along in this. So, I it's a very hard thing to decide. Now, you also can decide you've got enough money, you don't want to deal with it and I'm just going to write whatever check I need to write and then just take care of them and I'm just not going to worry about it.

And if that's the case, you probably wouldn't have made this phone call. Yeah. So, um you would just done it and I'm just going to be an enabler and I'm comfortable with that and that's what I want to do. Mom and Dad took care of me, I'm going to take care of them and it's no big deal.

But when you call up and ask, that means that you don't want to do it.

That's what it means. So, uh how much how much preemptive strike do you want to get involved in is the next decision you got to make. How much preemptive conversations? Dave, I was going to ask you kind of a follow-up. What are What are your thoughts? Cuz I think there's probably several hundred thousand people that could be listening right now that are in these shoes and they feel a sense of uh burden to take care of their their parents. And when you say there's no moral obligation, I agree with you.

But what advice would you give to them to get over that emotional hump, that sense of guilt or shame that they ought to take care of them if they don't, they're bad kids. What would you tell them? >> Yeah. Well, I think you just need to decide, you know, whether it's your responsibility or not. >> Mhm. There should if if it is not your responsibility, then there shouldn't be shame or guilt.

The only reason you have shame or guilt is if you feel like it's your responsibility and you didn't do it.

That's the only reason it would be there. And so, like um

you know, if my buddy calls me up and says I I I need some money, I have zero shame or guilt about either giving it to him or not giving it to him. >> Right. Cuz I don't feel an obligation. I don't feel like I have to do it. And honor your parents in the Bible does not mean honoring misbehavior. If mama's doing cocaine, you're not honoring her by giving her $10,000.

That's not honoring your parents.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Frank is in Toronto. Hey, Frank, how are you?

Not bad, Dave. I finally got to free to talk to you. Well, we're glad you did.

How can we help, sir?

It's an honor for you to be there, you and all the personalities.

Um, I was just wondering, I'm looking for for future planning purposes here

of what is once I get to baby step four, which I believe is saving 15%

towards retirement, that I could have to maybe have to go a little more gung ho than that because

I'm 54 and don't have anything saved for retirement.

I'll have $215,000 worth of um, retirement investment room

when I get to that stage.

Um, I'll be debt-free in 8 months. Good.

I've actually set the date for November the 6th. Mhm.

And then I'll have my emergency fund of $10,000 saved. I have $3,000 and I just

did a budget. I got $3,000 each month

and and room. >> What's your household income?

Uh right now it's just me. I'm the household.

$5,600 net per month. Okay.

All right. So, if you save 15% of your gross annually into good growth stock mutual funds inside of your retirement plan. Now, you're in Canada, so it's a little different, but still, you can do all of that. Yeah. Um and you do that for 10 or 12 years. You're 55 at the point that you start, and you do it to 65, 67, you're going to be a millionaire. You're going to be fine.

Wow.

And no, you don't have to No, you don't have to do it out of order. You do need to get your house paid off during that time as well.

I I don't have a house. That's That's the other thing, too. Okay. And you start talking about how we're going to do that and what we can get paid for.

Because when you go into retirement, your most expensive line item in your budget is always housing.

Yes. And if you don't have debt on your house, obviously, it does It's no longer the most expensive line item in your budget. So, you've got a lot of room then. But, you're going to be fine if you just continue to follow through, and it sounds like you got it really dialed in. So, congratulations. Keep it up. If you need more help, call us anytime, brother. Nick is in Madison, Wisconsin.

Hey, Nick, what's up?

Yeah, hey Dave. Um just calling and hoping you can hear me well enough. I'm in a rural area right now.

Um Okay. >> I got a couple of questions I've got a couple of questions here on I'm sitting Well, first off, I'm only 27 years old. I got a 123,000 in debt here.

Uh 81 is about the house, 81,000.

Uh 28,000 is my car. Mhm. And then personal loans are around 6,000.

Uh medical bills are sitting around 8,000.

My main question today is uh

I always hear you say sell your car if

you cuz the car is worth about 12 grand today. Who said?

I looked at Kelley Blue Book, and then I also looked at the dealership a couple of different dealerships. >> On private sale or trade-in?

That sounds like a trade-in, though.

That would be That would be just a just a sale cuz I'm trying to get out of this loan and not get a new one.

Mhm.

Okay. So, if my math is correct, well, I think we're sitting at like 17,000 underwater right now. Um So, you owe $32,000 on this thing? $34,000 on this thing? Yeah.

Yep, cuz we originally we were >> in negative Did you roll negative equity from another car into this deal?

I did, yep. >> Yeah, and that's how you got there. Okay. And what's your household income?

So, I I we do 70,000 uh before the taxes, and then taxes come out, we get about 56, 57. Mhm. Okay.

All right. Well, I mean, you're stuck in that car. They're selling it is of no benefit because it it's not worth anything compared to what it's owed.

So, Okay. you know, it's not much help, but what what that does mean sadly is is that you're going to work six extra jobs.

And you're going to sell everything else in sight.

Everything's on Put the cat on Craigslist and the dog on eBay.

I mean, we're going crazy here.

And beans and beans and rice, man. No no life.

You've got to lean into this and start throwing grenades at it harsh, like your life depends on it. It's not You can't wander out of this mess. You're going to be extremely intense.

Okay.

So, the the monthly payment right now is 647. Yeah. And I I have done the past

few payments doing 1,100.

Um That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about coming up with 34,000 dollars.

Extra. Okay. So, you need to be making like an extra $2,000 a month and squeezing every dime out of your existing budget, too.

So, you are You're married, I take it.

Yeah, I am. Yeah, everybody in the house is working. The children are going to the salt mines. Everybody's working.

We're all making more money. We're all going to throw it at this mess, cuz this is not going to go away with you know, just sitting down and tightening up the only budgets you have right now.

It cuz you've tried that is and you know, and an extra payment is not getting you out any time in this century.

Cuz you probably also have a high interest rate on this thing, don't you?

Yeah, it's it's about 10 10% right now.

>> So, you got screwed coming and going.

Yeah. You don't need to be on a car lot for a while, do you?

What a mess.

Yeah, I I I you know, if I'm in this situation and I have any cash, I'm I'm going to go ahead and move this thing, and I'm going to drive a clunker because of the >> can get the cash. If you can get the cash. But at but at 17,000 upside down, if that number is accurate, and the thing is worth 12, what are you going to replace it with? A five? You only got a $7,000 move. Yeah, yeah. Here. So, you

know, getting rid of the getting rid of that thing, and getting rid of the debt on it, and getting rid of these other debts so that you can attack it with a vengeance is absolutely necessary here.

>> Yeah. So, any money you can scrape together that's not in a retirement, anything you can sell that's not in retirement, and any extra work you guys can do, and I'm talking about work that makes money, not just out there moving around. I'm talking about Uber. I'm talking about really making some money.

And I want you working weekends, nights, overtime. I want your wife doing the same. Y'all got a mess.

And you're going to stay in the mess unless you throw some money at it.

And so, that's what it's going to take. It's going to take this crazy intensity, and then you can move the needle.

Isabella is in New York City. Hi, Isabella. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I need your opinion here cuz I need you to act as a tiebreaker, but I just got a new job with a higher salary and my parents are really pushing me to buy an apartment in New York City.

Obviously, New York City, it's one of the most renter-heavy cities in the country. I really never thought of buying or considered it, but my parents are not letting it go. Um I'm happy renting where I am. >> Why Why do your parents have a vote?

>> [laughter] >> Cuz they're my parents. That doesn't give them a vote. You're supposed to be like a grown woman and stuff.

Um I do take a lot of like what they say into account.

>> nice. That's sweet, but they don't really get a vote.

Um I do see I do see where they're coming from. I think for me it's a lot of knowledge.

>> I'm 24. What do you make? What's the new salary? Uh 95,000. >> Well, what's the cost of the apartment?

Um with 95,000, I could reasonably look at anything between 300 to 400,000 in

the city. That's not in the city.

That's in an outlying borough somewhere.

Um if it's in a co-op, I would have to it would be within that budget, but there would be co-op fees on top of it.

>> In Manhattan?

Correct.

Are you talking what, 400 square feet or something? Um my my own apartment right now that I'm renting is pretty tiny, so I see where they're coming from that I could upgrade while owning at the same time, but I don't know.

I'm not sure you can. That number doesn't sound right to me, but um okay, I'm not a I'm not a Manhattan expert, but uh all right. Uh I mean, you might be out in the Bronx or Queens or something and do that, but I'm not thinking you're going to be on the island doing that.

Uh so, here's the thing. You're 24 years old, you make $95,000 a year, and you don't really want to buy right now.

Is what you told me. That's kind of what you said. I For me it's just I don't see I I don't

see how I can buy. Like I'm trying >> not sure how either. I I I don't think you buy right now. >> I agree. I'm okay with you waiting.

Someday you want to buy.

And maybe you're still in New York City.

Maybe you're still in Manhattan. >> [music] >> But home ownership when you don't want to is a bad idea. Home ownership when you can't afford it is a really bad idea. All home ownership is not good.

Only when it's done properly is it a blessing.

>> [music]

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>> Colton is in Atlanta. Hi, Colton. How are you?

Doing good. Hey, I got a quick question for y'all. Um I have a small business and I'm wondering how I should do profit sharing with my two team members.

Okay. That's a great question.

And I I think it's really important that you start thinking about that at your size we did then when we were that size. Now there's a thousand of us and we have 14 core values. One of our core values on the wall is share the profits.

So uh we share with everybody in the building in one way or another all kinds of different ways. Now it's somewhat complicated cuz there's so much. Um

the first thing uh I learned the hard

way that I will teach you is to uh make sure that the two team members know that this is Colton's money

and I am sharing it.

That's different than corporate profit sharing is part of my comp plan that I'm entitled to.

This is you out of the goodness of your heart setting up a culture inside my little company here that I believe in sharing with the team

and I am doing that voluntarily.

You see the difference in the spirit?

Mm, yeah. It's like like when you're in the kindergarten sharing.

You know what I'm saying? This is not like profit sharing is part of my comp plan and they didn't pay it and so I'm pissed. No, you don't get that option. You're not entitled. This is me being kind

and you smiling when I'm kind.

That's how this works.

Okay? >> So I've probably been doing it wrong. >> Yeah, that that me I did. I screwed it up when I was your size and I had to go back and reset. The second thing I do, and we still do this to this day, is we pay out profit sharing here once a month and our CFO gets on the stage and says,

"Hey, profits were up over last month,

down over this month last year.

We had a good month. Here's a couple of bright spots in the company without going into details and numbers.

Here's how many people are involved in the profit sharing plan this month.

And so your profit sharing check's going to be a little better than last month and um not as good as 2 months ago and here's why." And then we close that talk out with here's where profits come from and everyone in the whole room, all 1,000 people say, "Profits happen when revenues go up." Everybody says, "Up." And when expenses go "down." So your job is to make revenues go up and expenses go down and then you get more profit sharing cuz I'll have more to share with you. And we say that like

like we're in kindergarten or something every Wednesday or or every Monday morning though we do the once a month when we're doing profit sharing announcement. So cuz we want everybody to remember this is not the Santa Claus is not delivering a bag of money.

This happened because we all worked together to keep expenses down and revenues up. And you have to reset that in people's minds over and over and over

again because people forget and they're like, "Oh well, the company didn't give me any money." No, that's not how this works, honey. You're self-employed like the rest of us. We as a group sucked so your profit sharing is down.

Cuz there's less profit to share. And so you know, we talk about it and when it's up or down. And so those are two things you want. You re- reset the entitlement and the ownership aspect and then you can figure out from after those two things are in place how to do the calculation.

I used to do ours when I was your size once a quarter because it wasn't much money and it'd be like 500 bucks or something after a quarter, right? And so that cuz there wasn't a lot of profit. Weren't a lot of revenue. And there's four of us, you know?

And so uh and I wanted it to be a little bigger check, but what I figured out was is that people weren't they couldn't count on it cuz they only got it every so often. And so it wasn't connecting in their brains. And so once we figured that out, we went back we went to a monthly.

And you could say, "Hey guys, every so often we had a great month.

I'm taking all of us and the wives and the kids out to dinner and we're all going to a movie and I'm going to spend some company money just to say thank you cuz we I'm going to share some of our profits with you that way." And or hey, here's a $100 handshake. We

had a good month.

And it's not formal and it's not a bunch of math calculation and you can keep it fairly primitive and simple that way when there's three of you without getting into some kind of freaking spreadsheet analysis. And by the way, our team does not know how profits are calcu how the how their portion of profit sharing is calculated.

That way they don't have to back into and worry about what's going on. All they know is we share with them.

And it's pretty dadgum sweet these days.

So, does that make any sense? What did you What did you say you did wrong?

Well, so what I've been doing is we we

do commercial residential remodeling. Mhm.

And so by the time I take all the expenses out and after I pay myself and

there's some left, then I I I usually

what I've been doing is just kind of giving them 3% of that. I didn't tell them this. I just told them that they're going to get um some sharing in the profits we make of this there's a successful job.

>> That's a good that's a good move. I like that. What's wrong with that? >> Then then they don't get in it they don't get any. But then I'm also trying to figure out what percentage should I save back for retained earnings because sometimes we don't work for a while and

then I'm like don't have enough there to to save Yeah, the profits that we use to calculate number we use to calculate profit sharing is after we have set retained earnings aside.

Okay, that's what I thought that's what I was kind of wondering. >> Yeah, so we set retained earnings aside and that creates we have several layers of profit in net profit np1 through

seven. I have seven different layers of profit before or after certain expenses

and the only one that gets paid off the actual np7 is me and a couple of our

senior leaders. But everybody else is different layers in there as to where we're cutting profit in and out. Cuz I've got some of the VPs that some of the vice presidents get paid a percentage of the profits in their area as part of their comp.

And that's not technically profit sharing. I've got profit sharing in addition to that. So I've got all that complicated bull crap in there, but yeah it's after retained earnings. So you have to run your business and when money's left after you run your business, you share with them.

Okay.

Okay, so you think it's okay to do it by job like I've been doing. >> Oh, I think it's smart.

Okay. Cuz there are jobs at times when we don't we don't profit. Yeah. I mean like

I profit but they the business doesn't profit and so then we just say, "Hey, we need to talk about why this didn't profit." >> Exactly. We're all self-employed.

And if the job doesn't make a profit, we don't have anything to share.

Hello. >> Okay. That's perfect.

How old are you? Thank you.

Uh 24. Man, you're sharp. You're doing a good job. I'm proud of you.

Very you thought you you spent some time thinking about this. >> Yeah. It's really good.

>> your book. I read your book so Tell I want I want the audience to hear how your team members reacted when you first gave them some profit share. What was that reaction like?

Uh the first time it was like $6 and they were >> [laughter] >> making a joke that they could go buy an ice cream. Right. >> But it's been up since then and and they really it it really surprises them every time. Yeah. And so that's what I wanted to just emphasize by asking you that question is because that is the key to

building loyalty. Uh they appreciate you know even though it was six bucks, they still appreciated the thought. You know we've all heard it's the thought that counts. Our wives try to drill that into us husbands, you know it's the thought that counts. Get the birthday card, write a note, you know the whole drill. Uh but I just want to make sure young leaders catch this.

This is how you build a business on core

people is fundamentally showing people how much they matter to you.

Uh and I think it's going to serve you very well. So I wanted to applaud you as well. That's really good. Yeah, he did a great job. Very well done.

So yeah, building a business you love, one of the things we talk about in there is is the importance of being able to [music] you know share. Uh that it's the beauty of small businesses. Most small businesses are not greedy people.

They're not like corporate America. They don't piss on their people. Most of them take care of they're like family. They take care of each other. And so

you know that guys like that right there, that's pretty cool. [music] He starts with $6.

That's That's pretty fun. I like that a lot.

>> [music] >> Owning a business can be a heavy load.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the show Front Row Seat on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today.

Monica's in Houston. Hey Monica, how are you?

Doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm calling. Thank you for taking my call, first of all. I've been listening to your show for quite a while. >> [clears throat] >> And it's primarily me that listens to your show.

My husband doesn't doesn't at all.

My question today has to do with the cash-out refi. My husband and I are

almost to the retirement age. He will return 65 next week, and I will turn 64

in the summer. We have no savings, no retirement. Our joint income is around 116k.

We have debt, personal loan, credit cards, and automobiles of 83,000. And we

have a $28,000 mortgage lien that we

disagree on, but we do have it against our primary residence.

Um so, my husband looking to getting a cash-out refi to roll all of our debt

into um one loan to free us essentially of

all the debt. Well, it doesn't free you of it. It moves it onto your house.

Right. It moves it onto the house.

>> paying off anything. You're just moving it.

Right. Okay. And so, I was trying to explain that to my husband. I said, "Look, this is a 30-year loan, and we're

our mortgage is at 53k right now. What Why would it make sense for us to roll all this debt into another mortgage loan? We're almost at the finish line." So, the loan officer is tag teaming me

with my husband trying to get me to agree that it makes sense to finance

this loan again and put all the debt

into one pot. And he's saying that I would be walking away with an extra $3,000 a month if I were to go this

route. And if we added an extra $2,000 a month, we could pay off the mortgage in 6 years.

I don't know if that makes sense to me or not. I need you to help me to sort this out.

Well, what's bothering you is that nothing changed in your habits when you do this.

Correct. And so when you're 70, you're going to be back in debt.

I don't like that idea. I I don't want >> but that's what you're going to do because the system y'all are using now put you here, and you're not changing anything in the system. You think and your husband thinks he can borrow his way out of debt, and you can't dig your hole dig your way You can't dig out the bottom of a hole and get out. That's not how it works. Um So uh um

How much of the 83 is his truck?

Uh 32,000. Mhm.

Isn't that weird that I knew that?

I'm prepared to sell my truck and just drive the other one cuz we >> How much do you owe on the other truck?

No, that Jeep is 24,000, and we have an F-150 that we paid cash for that he drives occasionally when he doesn't drive the more expensive truck.

And I told him >> All right, you you have How many cars do y'all have?

We have three vehicles, two trucks and one Jeep. Okay. And and truck number one

that he drives occasionally that's paid for is worth what?

Maybe $6,000.

>> Okay. And the other truck is worth 32 and owes 32 on it, right?

And then there's the Jeep that you owe 24 on, right?

Correct. Mhm.

Think I found the problem. >> Mhm.

If I was going If I 65 years old and getting ready to retire and I was stone cold broke, I'd be scared.

Oh, well, I am scared. >> Not looking for a 6-year plan that some freaking loan officer gave me. That gives me chills.

So, y'all probably aren't going to do this cuz I don't think you and your husband are aligned on this, but mathematically what y'all ought to do is sell both these cars. >> Mhm. Both of them. Yeah. And not refi and not do a cash-out refinance. Instead, pay your way out of debt and be debt-free sooner than 6

years.

That's what makes sense to me. That's what I've been trying to explain >> you could pay off the house and everything in about 3 years

at 68 years old, but you're going to be not driving these two cars.

Well, I tried to explain that to him. I said, "Look, you know, we we owning two vehicles with two notes didn't make sense to me to begin with.

We have a concession trailer that we use occasionally, and that's why he bought the truck to move the concession trailer around, but now that we have one spot, you know, I don't see us moving it all the time. I see us trying to use it to get out of debt. Yeah. >> So, I really feel like not giving up the

53K that we have left on the mortgage

and sacrificing for 185. Yeah, so $85,000 if you sold these two cars gets you completely out of debt, mortgage, and everything, and you make 116. You can do that in 2 to 3 years.

And you should because you're freaking retirement age and broke.

>> [laughter] >> Can you say that one more time? Cuz my husband is not here, and I want to make sure that I got it written down just like >> Well, I mean, you said you had $83,000 in debt, right? Not counting the mortgage. >> Yeah. Okay. And if I take 32 from that

if I take 32 from that, I have 51. And

if I take 24 from that, I have 26.

26 and 53 mortgage is 78.

You make Okay. 116.

How fast you pay off 78 making 116? If

you paid off 35,000 a year, you're done in 2 years. If you pay off $25,000 a year, you're done in 3 years.

Okay. And that is that's no six-year plan that makes your banker rich.

That's what I told him. I said we could do this in 3 years. >> last financial planner you need is a loan officer.

That's what I thought.

And that's why I've been listening to your radio station so I don't get into these >> don't I don't know if you're going to get hubby to do all this, so.

Well, you know what? I I think it's time to try. Yeah. And by the way, the timeline Dave gave you speeds up if you guys are working extra. Yeah. You could do it in two be done in 2 years.

>> got health >> And if you got no house payment, no payments at all, I got your $3,000. Now

it's $4,000.

Freed up to start saving some money. You start saving 50 grand a year and you do that for 4 or 5 years, you're going to have a decent nest egg in your 70s.

And you won't be retiring eating dog food.

Alpo, the breakfast of champions.

It's like, oh my gosh. You know, I mean, yeah. But here's the thing. We've been buying crap we can't afford cuz we wanted it and some loan officer told us this is a good idea. The guy at the car lot said, "Look, I got you approved." And like we're supposed to celebrate that? Hello.

You owe more on your cars than you do on your house. Oof.

Ouch.

It's fact. Pinch me.

>> [laughter]

>> It's true. What is wrong with this picture? Right? Yeah, well, she's been controlling the house thing and he's been doing the other stuff and now he's tinkering with the thing she's been controlling and that's why she rose up.

That's right. Good for you, kiddo. Yeah, I I'm afraid I'm going to cause some marital discord and I'm happy to.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Charles is in Sacramento. Hey Charles, how are you?

Doing well. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

Hi, I was wondering if um pulling out an SB LOC for an investment property would be the right move for me.

Okay. Well, I'm I'm guessing you're fairly new to our show.

Um I've been listening for a while, but my financial advisor presented me with the option of an SB LOC. Um he's not pushing me towards it, just you know, presenting me options. Mhm.

But I mean, if you've been listening to this, you know I don't borrow money or tell people to borrow money, right?

That's right. Okay.

So, the answer would be no.

Okay, got you.

Yeah, I mean, that's I I love real estate and I love investment property. I hate debt on it. And I really hate the Small Business Administration.

They suck.

And for you to get tied in with them and what that's going to do to the rest of your whole portfolio and all just to get a rental property is the risk level that you just took on. Neither one of you two are thinking about what you're doing here. The risk level is through the roof. So, your investment guy's risk meter is broken.

Because the the the SB LOC is always tied to other assets as well.

Yeah. And so you're putting all of that at risk to screw around with a rental property in California.

Well, that's So, that's the thing. The rental property actually isn't in California. Um >> worse. It's a lot further away in the island of Guam. Oh, that's really bad.

Um it's my wife's grandmother's house.

>> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No, we don't We do not have rental property that's long investment property that's long distance.

And uh we certainly don't buy grandmother's house for rental property in Guam. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

This guy You're trying to figure out a way to do something you can't afford and this guy's presenting you an option to finance something you can't afford to do. And really it's God just yelling at you, "Don't do this." >> [laughter] >> So true. It's a long distance headache.

That's what you're looking at. Well, it's foreign country. Hello. I mean, if you're going to invest in real estate, you want real estate to be a very predictable environment.

Okay? A- And so, if you're going to invest money in a foreign country situation, you've completely left the stability of the US economy.

And so, um you can do that, but you need to be able to burn that amount of money down.

And so, if you want to buy a property in Mexico, you want to buy a property in Guam, Costa Rica, I got a friend of mine bought a place in Costa Rica the other day. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But we we somehow we Americans think that everywhere else in the world still functions the way the United States functions and it doesn't. It's a freaking banana republic. Hello. And so, you know, the- they may just come over there and take your property.

So, you need to be able to just abandon that amount of money at any point if you're going to do that.

And I'm not saying Guam is going to do that. I'm not saying Costa Rica is going to do that. But we cannot make the assumption that their that their governmental processes, their ownership, private property rights function the same way in that culture in that country as it does in the US. It doesn't.

And so, you know, these things turn socialist or communist in about an eye blink and all of a sudden, you know, you're one of those evil property owners. So, you you just have to think about these things. You need to be able to burn that amount of money down and you don't borrow on small business line of credit to buy in

a foreign country. No, for sure.

For sure. So, you do whatever you want, but you called and asked us and we're always going to tell you the truth cuz we love you. And we we don't want you to get hurt and you're going to [clears throat] regret that one if you do it.

I promise. Albert in Phoenix. Hey Albert, what's going on?

Hey, hey, you doing well. So, I'm 25 and

my girlfriend's 23. Friday is our 5-year

anniversary. So, happy for that. With

that timeline comes marriage and I do want to propose to that girl. Good.

>> But, my main concern really isn't that.

It's what comes with that marriage. So, the potential in-laws.

And they're fantastic people, don't get me wrong. Love them, but I've noticed that their finances are all out of whack from like the last 3 years. So,

>> they're in their early mid-50s and they

have nothing saved up for retirement.

They owe $170,000 on their house and they make a combined household income of 70 to 75,000

depending on overtime. >> Is your girlfriend sane?

Um, yeah.

>> going to be a wife that wants to do what they've done?

No, no, no, no. We're definitely financially on the same page. So, we're good there. >> Okay, so the two of you are going to be okay. The only question is is you've got this potential liability off in the distance. Yeah, so they're going on three to four vacations a year while we're living with them. >> fix them. If you're going to start out your marriage trying to fix the in-laws, you're going to have a long life.

Okay, got you. It's just that we're in this situation where we've been asked for money personally for the most basic necessities such >> I would just say no. >> groceries. Say no.

And if she doesn't get comfortable and you don't get comfortable saying no, then we've got other problems, but it's the two of you that are the problem, not them, cuz they're a known quantity.

We know what they're going to do.

They're going to piss away money and ask you for money.

That's a given. Has your girlfriend given in and given them money?

We lost you there.

Did she Did she give them money or not? Say it again. Yes. Okay. Yeah, now that's the That's what I'd be worried about. >> This is This is the person we need to be talking to, not them. Yeah.

You're not going to fix them. The only thing you're going to determine with her is the two of you are going to hold hands, lock arms, and say this is how we're going to handle life, and life includes your crazy butt parents.

Got you. My only concern is I don't want to be a pocketbook for their retirement, and >> Don't be. It's hard to say no.

>> Don't be. It's It just plan on it. I'm planning on saying no.

This is the premarital counseling stuff.

This is This would be issue number one for me based on what you presented.

That's what you called us about. Yeah, I agree you should have a concern, but you got to hear what Dave said. The concern is with your girlfriend, potential wife.

And you. Yeah, you both have to be locked in here to say no, we're never going to say yes again. We made that mistake once, we're not going to do it again. These are not poor pitiful people. These are people who don't manage their money well.

So, it's hard to feel sorry for them when they need money.

Right?

>> [snorts] >> And you need a new phone. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> It's about the fourth time I've been through that. All right.

So, guys, learning to set boundaries with your in-laws and with extended family of any kind. An extended family is anyone that doesn't live inside of our home. You, your

spouse, your personal minor children.

You have to be able to set boundaries with them and create quality, kind, compassionate boundaries to say,

"We're not able to do that. It doesn't match with our goals. I'm sorry, we're unable to do that." And about the fourth time they'll get mad and they'll say, "But you deserve But I deserve No, I'm sorry, I we're not able to do that.

I'm just I'm so sorry, we're not able to do that. Yeah. And we we we've looked at our budget and we just don't have room for that. >> Yeah. And well, we're a millionaire. I I know, but we looked at our budget and we don't have room for that.

So, um you know, that that's I mean, you just you just got to be kind about it and go, "No." And um you know, now I'll be Listen, I'll be happy to get you into Financial Peace University and you know, I'll help you sell your car and um you know, I'll help you get an extra job >> Yeah. and uh I'll coach you. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. I love you. I want you to win, but I'm not able to

enable. Yeah. I love that. That's really good.

I would say, "Hey, let me tell you about these baby steps. I'll walk with you. I'll hold you accountable. You up for that?" But you can't you But that's only after they ask for money.

You don't just go marching in there and suggest that. They're not going to hear it. But they come in and go, "You know, we're not able to do that, but I'll tell you what I can do." >> Yes. And even if you want to go super crazy, you could go, "Listen, if you get on a plan and you're real intense and you're starting to work, I might even throw in some towards the plan after I see the plan working.

Wow. But the plan right now is you just spend piss away money and then you come over here wanting some. That's not a plan I'm in for. Mhm.

You you pissing away money and then tell me I got to make it up. That's not That's not something we do here.

That's hard.

>> [music]

[music]

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One of our favorite things to do around here is a debt-free scream in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. We even have a debt-free stage in the lobby of [music] Ramsey Solutions so we can see the people and talk to them when they're doing their scream. And our super favorite thing to do is when it's one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members,

which will be true of Josh today and his wife Holly are with us to do their debt-free scream. Welcome, guys. Thank you. >> Thank you. We're so excited, you guys. Very cool. All right, Josh, tell people what you do here and how long you've been with us. Yeah, I've been here at Ramsey for about 5 and 1/2 years and I am on the Ramsey Education team. I'm a relationship manager for our sponsors.

Okay, and that's the high school curriculum primarily and we get sponsors that pay for that to go into the high schools and you help get that done. Yes, sir. Very cool cuz the high school curriculum's had about 6 million students do it now. Mhm. I believe.

>> Yes, sir, and counting. Yeah, there we go. Good stuff. Well, congratulations.

All right, how much debt have you two paid off? We paid off $175,000.

Just just north of that. Goodness gracious. In what period of time?

18 months. WHOA!

>> [laughter] >> OKAY. NOW, we don't ask incomes because your team members are all standing around. That would be unfair.

Otherwise, we always put everybody else on the spot, but how in the world do you pay off $175,000 in 18 months? That's like $10,000 a month. A lot of Chick-fil-A. Um but then [laughter] also like working here, working our jobs, but it's been so fun. So. Yeah, when she says Chick-fil-A, we we picked up some side hustles. We uh we worked at Chick-fil-A. Uh it's been super fun.

Uh I've always done Instacart so I did Instacart on the side and um yeah, when

we first got married, I I'd been saving up money while we were engaged to to put down, you know, once we got married we wanted to start knocking out the house and >> had a chunk to throw at it. >> Exactly. And how long have y'all been married? A year and a half. >> 18 months. Okay, so that's this begins.

Okay. Okay. So this is starting to sound like Holly brought this this baggage [laughter] in. I did. I did. I came with a lot of baggage which was the mortgage.

But you're worth every penny.

>> so. He [laughter] stuck with me. >> mortgage? >> It was our mortgage. Yes, sir. >> off your freaking house? >> Yes, we did. Oh, [laughter] I was thinking student loans. Oh my god. So you married a woman with a house. I got it. Okay. >> [laughter] >> That's a lot better. That's a lot better deal. Okay. Good job, man. Wow. And you

paid off the house How old are you two?

I'm 27. >> I'm 29. And you have a paid for freak What's this house worth? Uh just under 300,000. Geez, so you guys are going to be millionaires in no time. >> Yeah, we're excited.

So you just you got married and then just went we're game on. We're knocking that You went gazelle intense on the house. We did. Yeah, yeah. We treated baby step six like baby step two. And that's kind of something before we got married we went through FPU and uh we just wanted to you know, we we dreamed.

We said like hey what what could life look like if we had no payments. Uh and so So neither one of you had any consumer debt coming in. No, no. I I when I first started working here that's when I You cleaned all that up. >> cleaned all my I had about $40,000.

>> obviously responsible because she had no debt and [laughter] a house. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh that's that's a shout out to mom and dad for >> Yeah. Thank you guys. you know, she was listening to Dave Ramsey growing up in the car. In the back seat [laughter] of the car asking lots of questions that I didn't know what I was asking but she was answering and it got us here today.

So a Financial Peace baby and a Financial Peace employee. There we go.

That's how this happens. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> Wow. Look at y'all. I'm so proud of y'all. What you've done, man. Your mom and dad got to be proud, too. I think so. Yeah, they're all >> mean y'all went kind of freaky, though.

I mean you went after this mortgage.

Were people making fun of you outside of here? I know in here they cheer you on, right? Yeah. [laughter] Um they weren't making fun of us but they were definitely like, you know, this isn't the wisest decision on paper, and I was like, yeah, but it's like the best decision for us. [laughter] Yeah, it's always, you know, the answer is always just what we're solving for peace. >> Yeah, yeah, and that was important, so.

Yeah. How many hours a week at the height of all of this were you guys putting in? Um, total probably like 70,

probably 15 to 20 at Chick-fil-A. Yeah.

And what And so, you guys were working together at Chick-fil-A?

>> Did you Did you work in the back of the house? I worked in the front of the house, It was so fun. [laughter] It was. It's a blast. So, shout out to our Chick-fil-A family. Why was that Why was that so fun? Oh, well, I've never worked in food, so I was like, they just seem so happy. Like, whatever they've got going on, I want to be a part of that. So, on our honeymoon, I was like, can we please get jobs at Chick-fil-A? And then we did, and it was It was so fun.

>> that's fantastic. >> [laughter] >> I got to tell you, of all the couples we've interviewed here today >> question. It really is.

Baby, can we get jobs at Chick-fil-A?

>> Yeah. >> It was so fun. >> Yeah. Well, you guys I cut your food budget, I imagine. >> Yeah, they feed you every time you work, so like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like meals were checked off the list.

>> Amen. Yeah, yeah. I knew that was part of it. I could just tell.

>> [laughter] >> What Are you Are you saying something about, you know, how we look here?

>> you look You look You look like a great diet to me. No, I'm just saying, when you when you both decide to work at Chick-fil-A and you're gazelle-intense, you have figured out that there's some free food in here. >> That's right. >> a really good deal. That's better than rice and beans. No offense, Dave.

>> [laughter] >> Chick-fil-A chicken is That's pretty good. Jesus chicken trumps it, for sure.

That's true.

You guys are amazing. Way to go. All right, now, um, so, when people say, how did you pay off your house at 27 years old, what do you tell them? Yeah, I mean, there's the obvious, uh, you know, get on the every dollar budget. Uh, that was something from the get-go. We had to make sure we we knew where every dollar was going, otherwise this doesn't happen.

Um, so, that was, yeah, everybody says that, but I would say, biggest thing for me is just, uh, taking time to be grateful throughout the journey.

Looking back on how blessed we are, how how blessed we're we're able to have jobs, we're able to have side gigs, and we we hit a milestone and we we're just thankful to God that, you know, he he put us in a spot where we can do this, you know, so that was big for me, but Yeah, I think it was really fun to like lock arms in the first year of marriage and like we are naive. Like life's going to get hard, but it does feel like we can accomplish anything together.

So that was kind of like being on the same page was really really fun together. It's obvious that you guys were really dialed in together and there wasn't one of you dragging the other one along and that's You're right. You can take on anything if you do that. You can do anything you want to do. So I'm so proud of y'all.

Very very well done. Very well done.

What was the hardest part?

Yeah, we were thinking about this question. There were definitely some nights like when you're in the grind of like Thursday night we're eating chicken again. >> Again. And we're like I've got to go make chicken after this.

He's got to go sell chicken after this. [laughter] And we were just exhausted. So we were looking at each other and we were like we're shells of humans. Like is this worth it?

So there were moments of really really hard, but you get a good night's sleep and you wake up and you can go again the next day. Yeah, I can handle that, but I think the biggest the the hardest thing for me was I I'm I'm traditionally a a spender. You know, so when when we have most of our budget going towards throwing it at this every month, I'm like, ah, dang it, you know, I can't go buy a new pair of shoes or something like that.

But you got there. We did. And now [clears throat] you're What What's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate? I mean, you got your complete >> have a cheeseburger. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, no more chicken.

No more chicken. In-N-Out Burger, baby.

We're going to cross the street.

>> [laughter] [gasps] >> Yeah, we well we kind of already celebrated. We went to uh we kind of redid our honeymoon. We went to Universal Studios in Orlando uh last month. And so we we I had that kind of we like cash flowed that and did that before we even, you know, um had made the last payment.

>> Exactly. So, uh we did that, but yeah, we'll we'll save up for a new car. My car is getting old and um you know, boost up everything outside of that. What are you driving?

I'm driving a 2008 uh like little Infiniti SUV.

>> Yes. >> [laughter] >> And he wants a Ford Raptor, so that's next. Okay, so okay, that's great. So, here's what I want people to hear this.

Obviously. >> How long is it going to take you to save up for the Raptor now that you're debt-free? I 8 months to 12 months, I would say. >> Yeah, it'll probably be a year.

Cuz we'll cuz we'll let off the gas. We'll not work as much at Chick-fil-A. Like, we'll relax a little bit. But, we'll get there eventually.

You say that until he wants that Raptor a little earlier. [laughter] He's not He's identified that he's driving a piece of crap, so that's good, yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> That's good.

I like that. >> it'll be a used one, Dave. You know about these these cars are I've heard about them. >> [laughter] >> Heard about them.

Heard the rumor.

Yeah. Proud of y'all. Way to go, guys.

You're rockstars. This is absolutely amazing. Very well done.

>> [laughter] >> Josh and Holly, Ramsey Solutions team members and apparently Chick-fil-A team members. [laughter] $175,000 paid off house and everything at 27

years old and 18 months of marriage.

Man, don't tell me you can't do it when you're Gen Z. Then you These guys are just going mic drop. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, ONE. WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [screaming]

[applause] >> MAN.

MAKES ME PROUD HE'S WORKING HERE. YEAH.

>> What a sharp guy, man.

>> We knew that already, but you put all that underpinning, all that foundation under it. My gosh, I'm blown >> And let me point out that when you marry someone that is aligned with you financially >> and that is sharper than you. >> Well, that's true, too. I wasn't going to say that part, but hey, that is really cool to see their values align and now look at them. Boom.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kyle in Kentucky. My wife and I have been told by our financial planner that it's better to invest in the market than to pay off your mortgage if the interest rate is less than your average rate of return in the market. He explained that market gains can be used to pay lump sums on the principal of your mortgage to pay off your home sooner that way. Is this the best course of action?

Well, Kyle, I don't know if you've been listening to us for a while. If you have, you know our answer. If you haven't, uh there's a reason why Dave developed the baby steps many, many years ago uh because of the momentum and

the uh strategy actually pays off because it's disciplined action. And so, the answer is we disagree with your financial planner. That's a numbers game. It's a manipulations, fancy math try to make you feel good to invest with the financial planner when the discipline the old Dave you've used the adage so many times the the tortoise always beats the hare, right?

The idea of just discipline action and so maybe >> then there's the other thing that the financial planner's math is just it's not fancy, it's just wrong. >> Yeah, yeah, right.

he's saying you make 6% difference.

And that you're going to get out of debt faster. Well, that's wrong.

Because he left out a key mathematical

figure in this equation. This equation is very naive and very primitive and very simplistic.

If you did a sophisticated analysis of this, you would factor in risk.

And risk is not factored in here. You just took risk.

You put money in the in the stock market, which is risk. You didn't pay off your mortgage, which is risk.

And so you've if you take if you adjust for risk and taxes cuz you do pay taxes by the way on that investment returns. So these investment returns that you're going to lump sum and throw at this are taxable investment returns. So you did he didn't adjust for taxes and he didn't adjust for risk. So your financial planner's full of crap is the problem. And it's typical financial planner. Too many of them are this naive, this primitive, this unsophisticated.

And so when you adjust for risk and taxes, there is no benefit.

Here's the way you know this in your heart, Kyle. Let's pretend your house was paid for.

And your financial planner says, "Hey, you should go borrow $300,000 on your house and give it to me to invest in a good mutual fund and I'll make 10, 11, 12% on it.

And you can borrow that money at 3 or 4%.

And you'll make the difference.

It's the exact same discussion mathematically.

But when you say, "You want me to borrow on my paid-for house?" You know what happens? Your heart jumps.

Which is where you measure risk. You do math in your head and you measure risk in your heart.

And your heart skips a beat and goes, "Not just no, but hell no. I'm not borrowing on my house. It's paid for, you idiot." Why would I borrow on my house to invest with you?

And it's the exact same equation.

So, when you reverse it that way, you you makes you realize this guy's not playing with a full deck.

He's not got all the parts of the math equation in there. So, yeah, you need a new financial planner. This guy's more worried about what you invest with him than he is what you're going to end up with at the end of the day. You're going to end up with a lot more with a paid-for house and increased cash flow that you can invest in good mutual funds, which is what I've done, what Ken has done, what all the Ramsey personalities have done, what millions and millions of people have done that became baby steps millionaires, and they didn't have your financial planner.

So, you need to you need one that can do math. You got left out there. God, man, the arrogance of these guys. It's unbelievable. Tim is in New Jersey. Hey Tim, what's up?

Hi. Um how are you doing? Good. How can we help?

So, I'm a baby step five now. So, and

that's where I do have a car lease. That's the only thing that I my the Well, then you're not in baby step five. You have debt on your car.

You're right. So, I'm So, I have two questions. One if I should pay it off, but then my main question is the reason why is because I would I would like to have an like a nice car. I can afford it. But, uh it's going to come out more money. It's going to be a bigger headache for me to that have to sell it

and everything like that. And I just I I don't have a big payment on it compared to what I make. But my my main concern

is my wife is very concerned when she when it comes to spending. So, we used to be really broke like we had a lot of debt and I I paid everything off and um No, you paid off everything but the car.

True. Okay. So, let's add that on the car. I I will pay off the car.

But um I I make enough to for my wife to

be able to spend um nicely for like for

stuff personal stuff. I work at night as well. So, I I do music and I work at night and >> What's your household income?

So, I make 170 after taxes roughly. So,

I'm going to ask her so it's not um Good for you. You work hard. Good for you.

And you have no debt except the car lease and you're paying it off. Good.

Okay. And what is it How much is it your wife How much is it your wife has trouble spending? How much money?

Um it comes like any any purchase that is like like $250 $300 for for clothes

or something like that. >> Well, if you do a detailed if you do a detailed budget where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and she's in agreement with that budget, she'll be able to look at that budget and say, "If I spend this $250 on some clothing,

we still have the money for groceries.

We still have the money for investing in retirement. We still have the money for

X, Y, or Z." And as long as she knows she's okay, she can spend it. But when it's all discombobulated and it's just kind of swimming around in your head and you don't have a detailed plan, she doesn't know it's okay to spend it.

When we were broke, Tam, Sharon, and I would go to the grocery store and when we're buying groceries to feed our family, we wondered because we didn't have a budget, we didn't have a plan. We wondered if we just spent the money to keep the lights on at the house.

So, it's stressful to buy groceries.

That's what your wife is experiencing. But, once we had a plan, we said this much is for groceries, this much is for electricity, this much is for the house payment, and we have that plan laid out, then when we spend money on groceries, we're not stressed because we know it's a part of an overall plan, and we're going to be okay. She needs to know she's going to be okay if she spends this money mathematically. Yeah, and hang on the line.

We're going to give you Rachel's book. It's a number one best-seller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. My guess is your wife's background, in in other [music] words, the environment she grew up in, plus her experience with money to this point, is shaping some of that fear.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. [music] Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Front Row Seat show on the Ramsey network. He's my co-host today. Josh is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Josh, how are you? Sure. I'm great, David. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too, man. What's up?

Uh so, I had a question. We're in okay shape financially, the wife and I. Uh we have combined finances. Um and I've got some extra side hustle cash that I've got coming in.

And usually, I just use that to play golf or buy some beer or do whatever. And and you know, no questions asked. But, I want to start like surprising her maybe with a trip here or there. Just something that's a little bit more than just a you know, you you don't pay for it in cash.

You might need a debit card or something like that. Um so we I'm I guess my question is without opening another account, what's the best way for me to go about doing that? Surprising her while also, you know, making sure our finances kind of stay together and in one place.

What's your household income?

Uh right now we're at about, you know, 140, 150, I would say. Mhm. How much debt have y'all got?

Uh nothing but the house. Good for you.

Well done. Okay.

All right. Well, um I mean, you you certainly can do whatever you want to do. You're not doing a bad job. You're managing well.

Um what [clears throat] Sharon and I have done and what we teach is is that all monies are combined.

Okay. Now then that begs the question, how do you surprise Sharon with something? Okay, or how do you surprise your wife with something? And um if it's all in the budget, it's kind of boring.

It's all the, you know, surprise, there's your surprise fund, you know, and so um you know, the way it ends up working at our place, honestly, um we [clears throat] do a lot of travel today, particularly.

So that's a little different, but aside from that, um she does not want to do all the detailed work of planning the trip.

And so uh we would have in our case, you

know, maybe a modified way of our thing into you would just be that, you know, you could have a surprise line item in the budget. This is money I'm a a sinking fund that is for me to surprise you with and I'm going to do different things and we might I might buy a trip or I might buy you something else or whatever and um the fact that the money is in the budget is not a surprise, but um the item or whatever I buy is going to be a surprise cuz it's a surprise it's a surprise fund.

And you guys are grown-ups, you're not 4 years old, so you know, that probably will work good enough. Um if she has to be like tricked

into thinking you have money you don't have, I that one I'm not I'm not good with that idea.

No idea plus about tricking her. It's just I know. >> I'm just saying, you know, you got to hide it from her so she's surprised. Is that Well, is the surprise when you reveal that you have booked the trip or the surprise when you just put her in the car and say, "Hey, we're headed to the airport." What level are we talking about?

Well, I mean, like yeah, it'd be nice that you know, I don't think we'd get as far as because we have, you know, a child and all that. It's like we can't I can't just put her in the car and say, "Hey, we're headed to the airport." But it'd be nice to have something booked a few months out and then go to her a couple weeks in advance and say, "Hey, you know, that free weekend that we have it's not free because you know, I got something booked that I'd like to do." Yeah. >> you can do that with a uh an anonymous category.

We can name it whatever we want to name it, anonymous trips or surprise trips or surprise for this I like doing this for you as husband to wife, and so I'm going to put it in the budget. Yeah. And I'm going to give it a name.

>> we got we have so many friends like, you know, we've talked about it uh Sam and Jade Orshaw. I mean, Sam we talked about it on the show recently.

Sam uh they put money in their budget away for each other and it's just this is Jade's fun category and his fun category. Well, Sam never spends his and it just stacks and stacks and stacks and he does something really awesome. So, you could do it that way, too, where as long as it's in the budget we're communicating and it's like this this is the old blow envelope is what this is.

And if it stacks up, then you can surprise her with that. But there's a lot of ways to do it. But I'm always putting side hustle money in the budget.

Oh, yeah. Period. I'm not I'm not going to run it as a side No, not a separate account. I'm saying it's I know I'm just saying I know I know I'm just saying that's what he was doing. I'm not going to do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. But it's you know, certainly up to you, Josh. It's just you know And and again, we've been married 43

almost 44 years and so um there's very

little that surprises us. >> [laughter] >> Right, that is a different deal. I agree. So, it's like she's not for Yeah, it's not like you know >> Yeah, it's hard to surprise him even for like a birthday She doesn't even like a surprise birthday party. I'm just saying that this woman that's just her.

>> Does Sharon tell you what she wants for her birthday or do you surprise her with that? >> her with that. Yeah. And most of the stuff that we do on a trip, I mean I'm she may know the location Right.

and the date Right. but most everything else she's like, yeah, surprise me. Oh, that's fun. >> That's okay.

So, she wakes up and you're like, here's the agenda. Here's what we're doing. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. That's great.

Here's the plan and and you know I got a plan. So >> Oh, believe me.

>> It's ridiculous. >> [laughter] >> But it's fun. >> Jack is in New York City. Hey, Jack, what's up?

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

So, about 3 years ago I took out a SBA

7A loan to purchase specialty coffee roasting business.

And now that I'm about 3 years into this loan, there's about 100 grand left. It's a 9.75% interest rate and I feel like I'm finally catching my breath a little bit with this. So, I'm trying to figure out where I should start putting any extra

money I have. Catching your breath meaning you're just now profitable?

Uh yeah.

So, what kind of profit are we expecting in the coming 12 months?

Um it's about 20% of our revenue. Our

revenue last year was 660,000 and we're projected to do about a million this year. Okay, she may make 200 grand. And

is this a side hustle or is this your full-time gig?

Full-time gig. Okay.

And um So, what are you all living on? What's your What's it take for you all to live out of this?

Yeah, so um last year we brought home

about $77,000.

[clears throat] >> And you lived on that. Does your wife work outside of this?

No. Okay, so you lived on 80 grand last year. About, yeah. So, if you made 200 and you lived on 80 grand this year, you could pay off the loan.

Uh Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

>> 200 minus 80 is 120. The loan is 100, right? Right. >> Okay.

So, do that. Why not? Why would you keep this loan around? It's not a pet.

Yeah, yeah. No, I I I get what you're saying. It's um Yeah, okay. That makes sense.

>> So, hold on. Weigh that really quick with what you were thinking about doing.

What were you What were you thinking of?

Um well, we're actually looking to move into a new space. The spot that we're in right now is very small. Um and that's obviously going to be a another expense.

Um it's going to cost about 60 grand to get the new space build out. Um so, what I was actually thinking was potentially refinancing this loan because the interest rate is so high.

Um I could get 6 and 1/2% if I were to say to take out another $150,000 loan and then I'd have $50,000 of of capital

to put towards the build out and then The more the more debt that you have in business, the more unstable and [music] unsustainable you are.

The less debt you have, the more sustainable you are. So, I would go with everything you're talking about doing, only I would just pay off the loan first and then I would cash flow the move.

And wait till you feel how easy it is to breathe in. Yeah. And if you have this move completely cash flowed and you you've expanded, now you're making 300 grand >> [music] >> and you got no payments in the world and we're what, 24 months, 36 months from now? >> [music] >> It's a lot better place to be in business. It's too volatile out there, man.

>> [music]

[music]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But, here's a

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

[music]

>> If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. It is now the whole plan, the Ramsey plan [music] built right in. You track your progress, you get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster.

It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in App Store or Google Play. Adam is in Seattle.

what's up?

Oh, hi Dave. Um, thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure.

So, [clears throat] I just feel lost in life, you know? I am 26 years old.

I have no degree.

I'm unemployed and

I haven't been able to hold down a job since I graduated high school. I had like 10 jobs and Yeah. Yeah. What is your assessment? And give me a single one or two words at most. What what has kept you from holding down these jobs? What is it?

It's a lot of a lot of um

I I think it was a learned helplessness and then also just a lot of anxiety and

Did you self Did you self-sabotage?

Yeah. Yeah, it's Yeah. Okay. So, what's it What's at the core? And again, don't worry about how you word it. Just be as gut-level honest as you can. What do you think's at the core of all this anxiety, this fear, this worry? >> It's it's my fault. It You know, I I took ownership of it.

I just don't know how to move forward. So, yeah.

Well, the first way to move forward is to realize that you're not a failure.

And I think it would make a lot of sense for somebody in your shoes at 26 who's never had anything stick. Doesn't feel like you've had much stick in your life.

Is that a fair assessment?

Things haven't really been It hasn't been sticking and >> Yeah. Um I think it's just the the severe anxiety that I have and I am in therapy for >> Okay. for that. So, >> Are you making progress? Do you feel like you're making progress in therapy?

I I want to believe that. Yeah. So, let me tell you right now, instead of this big philosophical and big strategy answer, I think you just need a win. And

I think you need to redefine what winning looks like. And I think winning, if I were going to prescribe something to you, is go get a job and go get the hardest job you can get.

I mean that. I don't mean something that pays you very little. I mean hard working, maybe some manual labor, working the trades, and and have one clear win. And that is,

I'm going to keep showing up.

I'm not going I'm not a screw up.

Therefore, I'm not going to screw up.

And I got one thing. I'm going to show up and I'm going to keep a clean nose.

I'm going to do what they tell me. I'm going to learn. I'm going to learn how to do more. I'm going to be hungry and I'm going to keep showing up.

And I'm going to put 1 month, 2 months, and 3 months. And I while you're getting this therapy, I think you need to do something really, really hard. Because I think you need to prove to yourself that you've got grit and that you're actually tough and that you're not a victim. But I want to bring Dave in because I know he's got some great insight on this, too.

But I'm trying to simplify for him to get him a win, Dave. What are your thoughts?

Um So, I I I I am with um a relative

[clears throat] of mine. I live with a relative of mine and um What what relative? An uncle or aunt, brother, sister, what?

Yeah, um my uncle. Okay. Where's your mom and dad?

Um it

Physically, where are they located?

They're they're located like in in the same city. It's just where

you know, I've failed and I haven't been a really good son, so um Yeah. I I don't I don't I'm I'm not I don't really talk to my mom, um, much, but yeah.

What did you call for today? What did you What did you want from from from Dave and I? I just feel I feel lost in life, and I like cuz I'm 26, and um, you know, I have no degree, and you know, it's I'm just trying to No, listen, I can tell you right now, you're so ashamed of yourself.

You are just covered in shame. So, Dave and I aren't therapists. I'm glad you're with a therapist. I cannot preach that enough.

Do the hard work. Keep digging in. Don't stop that. But, I I'm going to go back to what I think I think instead of I don't think someone who's in your state of mind, uh, can have great clarity.

But, I'm going to give you a resource. I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take the assessment, but I'm going to caution you that I think you're so down on yourself, and you are so loaded down with shame that I think you're going to have to do a few little things at a time to build up uh, belief in yourself. >> And that's why I'm prescribing hard work.

on a construction site to where your body aches all day, and and you just get

some confidence to go, "I'm showing up doing the hardest work possible." I really believe that's what you ought to try. Try it for 90 days, and and get that back stiffened up to say, "I just did the hardest work on the planet for 18, 20, 22, 25 bucks an hour hard work."

Work two jobs. Don't do anything but work. And stack up some cash it for the

whole purpose of beginning to believe that you're not an utter failure.

That's what I'm That's what I think you ought to do. Yeah, so, this is a real hard assignment.

Get a job doing anything that's tough, and show up every single day, and work your butt off. >> Yeah. You can do that. >> Okay. You can do that. >> So, like, to build to build character, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, build some grit. You're partying your butt off, aren't you?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's got to stop. You're killing yourself, man. Yeah. Okay?

Yeah. It's it's it's dripping off of you. So, if I was you, I'd plug into a great church and get some men that are walking with God, that are clean, that are sober, and and they'll walk alongside you, put their arm around your shoulder, and kick your little butt, and get you in a job, and hold you accountable for staying clean and working your butt off. >> Mhm.

And you got to get you got to get a community that's different. The community you're running in is a bunch of losers.

And you're going to become who you hang around with. So, you need to change who you're hanging around with. Yeah. And you're going to that's a mess. So, yeah, the the thing is this, Ken's Ken's prescription, I think, is exactly right.

You need some wins.

You need some confidence and some dignity, but that means you got to walk away from the stuff that's been taking it from you. Yeah. And that's the partying, and the reason you're not showing up at work is you're hung over, you're strung out, you can't wait for happy hour. Can't wait for smoking another joint while I'm on the job.

Well, of course you're getting your butt fired. No kidding. You can't pass a drug test. And so, that's what's going on. I mean, so you you know, you step in there, and you stay clean, dude, and and I'm telling you, get a whole new crew to run with, get into get into a good church, and as far as asking about family, and so, the reason your family is upset with you is not because you're a bad son. It's cuz they love you, and they hate watching you destroy yourself with your bad habits.

That's why they're they're not mad at you, they they love you, and they and they can't stand watching you kill yourself. So, what I would just walk away from that stuff and go completely clean, and just let's go for a whole new direction. I I we're going from drunk to monk right now, man.

I mean, game on.

Time to make a move, right? You got to make a shift here. And if you do something radical like that for 90 days, you can do all kinds of stuff. >> That's absolutely right. Absolutely right. And and I I can't say this enough.

At some point after the 90 days, I want you to do something that you're afraid of doing. >> Yeah. Something that you're afraid of.

That's like really a stretch. I don't mean something stupid financially. I just mean something you're afraid of. Um Which right now is everything. It is.

But I I cannot tell you how much hard work will do for the soul. Oh, yeah. You know, where And by the way, your only goal, by the way, is stack as much cash as you can in that 90 days.

>> Stay in clean. >> Yeah. Get a goal. Stay in clean. I think you can do this, Adam. I know you can. I really don't think it's as bad as your brain has told you it is. But yeah, you're going to have to walk away from some stuff and towards some new stuff.

Yeah. If you want a different recipe If you want a different thing, you got to change the recipe. Keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity.

That's what the 12-steppers say. And they're quoting Einstein, by the way.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members, Brandon Ray, and his wife, Madison, to do a debt-free scream. Welcome, guys.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good, man. How are y'all? >> Doing well. Cool. So, how much debt have you two paid off? 118,000.

Wow. And how long did that take?

>> 4 years. Good for you. And you've been here about 4 years, right? >> Yes. Yes. Okay, tell folks what you do here at Ramsey. Software engineer on Trusted. All right. And so, if you're getting a tax getting help from a tax pro or real estate agent, it's very likely that Brandon Ray might have written the code. Sure. That caused you to be able to do that. So, that's how it works. Yeah. Way to go, guys.

Well, congratulations. What kind of debt was the 118,000? So, we had two cars, student loans, four credit cards. We also owed some family some money. So,

You were normal. Normal, yeah. How long you two been married? Almost 10 years.

Okay. So, where did you move Did you move from somewhere to come here 4 years ago? No, we're from here. You're from here. >> Yeah. Okay. And so, you joined the Ramsey thing, and around here the peer pressure's all positive to get you out of debt. It's the opposite of most places. >> Yes. Um like it's kind of over the top.

It's like like a cult or something. So, yeah. Yeah. But the Yeah, so we're pushing you cuz we love you to get out of debt. Everybody in the whole team's cheering you on, right? >> Yes. And so, you didn't have a choice hardly but to get on the plan, right?

>> Exactly, yeah. Okay. And so uh Madison, did you know what your husband was getting into when he joined this place?

No. >> [laughter] >> No, I didn't know we were joining a cult. But it's okay. It's the good kind of cult. It's a good one. Yes. There's good ones, there's bad ones. We're one of the good ones, yeah. I think that's awesome.

So you guys decided about the time you came to work here, okay, we're going to attack this debt. It was kind of a little bit before that. It was like, "Hey, I've been Well, I'll go back a little bit. My mom actually introduced us to you when we were when I was like a little kid. We were listening to you and Suze Orman and

we were doing all sorts of stuff there and she introduced me to like the envelope system and all sorts of stuff.

But like a kid, you know, I didn't listen to any of it until well into our marriage. Yeah. And I was like, "Hey, you know, And by then you're normal, you got all this debt. And I'm like, "Oh crap, we're starting to have kids and things are starting to stack up and we need some room." And then I was already starting to look into the baby steps and then I was like, "Hey, I really want to work here, too." So that that kind of went hand in hand.

Okay. Yeah. All right.

He suggested and I followed. Was that it? That's simple, huh? Yeah. I love my husband and Could you teach a class ON THAT, PLEASE? >> [laughter]

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WHY?

So no questions at all, no struggles with it. You just were like, "Okay, Well, I did a little bit of kicking and screaming. Oh, okay. [laughter] When he told me I had to stop ordering the cheese dip at, you know, the Mexican restaurant, I got a little frustrated, but Yeah, cuz she she's more of a dreamer and I'm I'm more of a realist, so it's like she comes to me with dreams and I'm like, "There's no room in the budget, so we need to like do some work to make those dreams >> Dreamer and dream killer.

Yeah. And apparently queso killer as well. Queso killer. Whoa, that's worse than dream killer.

Wow. It is. Hey, but we're debt free, so So can have Yeah, now we can get that queso. [laughter] She's bought in.

Now we got it. Okay, so what do y'all tell people the secret to getting out of debt is?

$30,000 a year, right? >> Yeah. That's pretty substantial. It's doing lots of late nights. We did I did two side jobs um to make that happen. So it was it was a lot and you gave up a lot cuz you had to like get the kids to bed, do a different things. It was it was a lot of sacrifice. >> queso And queso, yeah.

>> [laughter] >> A lot of missed out queso. >> So there was just a lot of a lot of sacrifices, a lot of late nights, a lot of coming here eating beans and rice.

The taco bar looks really good on Tuesday, but lots of beans and rice. We ate a lot of beans and rice. >> and lots, yes. Yes. So that was probably the hardest part, too, was like giving up time with the kids, giving up time with family at at night, and giving up just We like food, so Was it Was it [laughter] Was it worth it now that you're free? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

How's it feel now that you don't have any debt except the house? It was weird at first cuz it's like, oh, is it is it over? Is it actually over?

>> feel real yet. And then yeah, it's still kind of getting to that real part, but it's like, hey, wait a second, we can actually the kids want to go do something, we can do it, right? It's not a no immediately, it's like, yes, we can go do that.

All right, for a guy who works here, you know it, you've lived it, you've done it now, what do you say to people that this is the key to winning on this debt-free journey? Well, you got yourself into it, you got to get yourself out of it. Just do it. Put in the work.

Get it done. Love that. What about you, Madison? What do you say the secret to getting out of debt is?

Uh a lot of patience and a lot of trusting your partner. A lot.

All those random subscriptions that you forget you have have to be canceled and

Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a constant thing. Yeah, way to go, guys. I'm so proud of you.

So proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you. Mhm. I tried to get you to do this 20 years ago. Now now you're doing really doing it. That's good. That's good. It's very good. Very good.

Well, congratulations, y'all.

Congratulations. And thanks for being on the team. We appreciate it. And when the taco bar's open, you get all the queso you want, okay? >> [laughter] >> Okay. And [clears throat] it's your birthday. >> Yes. No way. >> Yeah. Well, happy birthday.

Very nice. >> the present. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How are we celebrating tonight?

>> to ice cream after this. Wow.

>> Yeah. There we go. There we go. That's good. >> Two scoops two scoops are okay today.

There we go. Maybe a waffle cone.

>> Yeah. Oh. Easy.

I'm going crazy. Let's go crazy. That's it. I like it. Very well done. All right, Brandon and Madison from the Ramsey Solutions team living right here in Nashville. $118,000 paid off in 4 years. Oh, what are the kiddos' names and ages?

We got Beckett, he's 5. Cecilia, 7. And

Adeline is 5 months. >> Aw, perfect. Very cool. And they look like they've been practicing their debt-free scream. >> Oh, yes. So they're Y'all ready to do your debt-free scream? You ready, Adeline? Ready to do it? All right, count it down. Let's hear it. Debt-free scream. 3 2 1 >> 1 WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [cheering and applause] >> THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE.

>> [applause] >> WOW, MAN. That is fabulous.

Congratulations, you guys. Well, and the team's out here cheering them on. Yeah.

It's fun. It's a good news about the team here. They love each other and they're always praying for each other, helping each other. Uh you know, passing on tips and encouragement and everything else versus tearing you down.

And it's one of the beauties of the culture in at Ramsey. I'm real proud of our team and how many of them came out. You can see them if you're watching on the YouTube, man. That's a huge number of people come out to cheer them on.

So, very cool stuff. And And isn't it interesting that you can grow up right here in the shadow almost of this building? Yeah.

telling you to do this stuff and then you look up and you're $118,000 in debt and you're married. And we've been married 5 years and oh, this is not working.

And oh, I got to do it, too.

And then joins our team 4 years ago and

actually applies the stuff and goes crazy. So, the interesting thing is with all this stuff, it's just a matter of a decision or three Mhm. to decide I'm not going to do that anymore. I am going to do this.

I'm not going to do that. I am going to do this. And this is I'm identifying what works, what doesn't work, and I'm going to plug into what works. I'm going to walk away from the things that don't work.

And this, you know, using these credit cards to get my airline miles bull crap. Uh, you know, I'm not I'm not paying attention to what we're spending at restaurants.

And then all of a sudden, boom, it gets serious and everybody turns their life around. You know, it's interesting when I asked Brandon the key to get out of debt, he said, "You got yourself into this. Now you got to get yourself out." Really ties into our last call, that young man who had, you know, done some things where he created all the shame and guilt. And And he's telling us multiple times he's lost.

And it's very similar to people that feel lost financially because they just do what the culture kind of tells them is normal to do. And they wake up one day and they feel lost, stuck financially. >> Oh, yeah.

You got yourself in it. You got to get yourself out. There's a lot of empowerment there. So, a great message to a lot of you that are new to the show and are in a lot of debt and you're just feeling like this is a pipe dream. It's really not. It's that simple, that mindset and then crazy discipline that you heard there. So, you can do it.

Larry Burkett used to say it takes you about as long to get out as it did to get in. Mhm. So, if you spend 3 years making the mess, takes you about 3 years to fix the mess. And my experience has been different than Larry's. Yeah. Uh, I think maybe because we got the whole Gazelle intensity thing going.

>> I I agree. >> It's roughly about half. >> Mhm. So, you figure if it took you 5 years to make the mess it's probably going to take you two and a half to get out of intensity. And so how quick do you clean up the mess? In their case they cleaned it up in four years. Took them about six years to make the mess. They've been married 10. >> [music] >> So that's how it worked out. Very interesting. Proud of you guys. Well done.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> [music] >> Our scripture of the day Hebrews 10:23 and 24. Let us hold unswervingly to the

hope we [music] profess for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

John F. Kennedy said too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's really good. Ouch.

Ronnie is in San Jose. Hey Ronnie, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I've been listening for you guys for years.

Well, thank you. >> And I really appreciate your words of wisdom. So, I'm going to be 59 in July

and I'm trying to think how I'm going to retire.

I'm working right now part-time as a teacher and um I own my house

but I don't think I can maintain the house here in California. I have a little farm

and there's always something happening, you know, the septic system and then uh the well is going bad. So, every time there's something else. So, I'm not sure I can I can keep this house for retirement.

And I was thinking to renovate it.

Uh I don't have enough cash to renovate the house and I was offered to take a HELOC and by listening for you for so many years, I know that you guys are not pro HELOC or taking any any loans.

So, at this point, I just don't know what to do. What's the best way to go?

What are you thinking of doing?

Uh I'm thinking to move to a different state. So, either Nevada or Arizona or somewhere I can old, you know, this

it's too expensive here. There's no way we can stay here with the taxes and everything else. It's just crazy.

We We Are you married?

I'm not married. I'm single. Uh right now my son lives with me and my adult son is going to finish his studying and he's going to move out, but right now he's still with me.

Um yeah, I'm sure about moving to a different state because I don't think there's no way I can I can retire where I am right >> Okay, so what is your property worth?

Um my property is about 1 1.6. Okay.

Well, that'll buy a nice property in another place, for sure.

Yeah, but they still need to to leave me some estate for retirement because I I don't have except the house and I have some money market. Mhm. How much do you have in a money market?

Right now, uh it's still collapsing, but it's about 600. Mhm.

Okay. So, if you sold your property I'm just thinking about the math only, not the emotions, but if you sold your property for a million six and you bought a property in another location for 600,000 and you paid cash,

and that would give you a million dollars to invest for your nest egg.

How would that sound?

I am not sure. I'm only 59. Yeah. I'm not sure it's going to take me all the way, if I don't Oh, it'll take you all the way. You don't make $100,000 a year now, do you? I am definitely not doing $100,000 a year now. What do you do? >> No. She's a teacher. Uh uh >> I'm a teacher, but part-time, yeah. So, what What do you make? Are you just working part-time?

Uh You know, I've been I've been working for so many years full-time, and I want to to do other stuff, so I'm working part-time.

Um How much does it take for you to >> now about 5,500 per month. Yeah, how

much does it take for you to live?

3,000. Okay.

So, you can work part-time as a teacher somewhere else, and so if you had a paid-for house in another market, and you put a million dollars or whatever, 800,000 in a in a good investment, and you're working part-time from 59 to 69,

you'd be in great shape, wouldn't you?

Yeah, but I don't want to work till 69.

I mean, you're you're going to have to make some money somewhere. Yeah. It's too much, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I I think your plan will work. It's just you're just going to have to be limited on what you spend on the property that you're going to move into in the next state. Yeah, I mean, look, if any if if the the the whole place is your oyster, if you can go anywhere, then I would go to a state that has no state income tax.

I'd go to a place where I could buy something that's more than enough room in the 300 350,000 dollar range. Up to

up to 600, I mean, yeah. Up to six, but I'm saying you don't have to spend six and invest the rest of that. That's going to That's going to do fantastic for you. It's going to double every 7 years. And you're going to be fine. >> Yeah. Yeah, just don't touch that nest egg and let it grow and you continue to do a little work. It won't kill you.

You're not dying. You're 59.

It's not like you're 89.

And so, yeah, um there's a lot of stuff you can do here.

But yeah, I got a feeling though that this very emotional for you to leave that farm and leave California after all these years. And so, the math says to do what you're doing. But then you've got to decide if that's where you want to live in the next place, whether it's Idaho or Nevada or Arizona, wherever you're going. You know, you need to go house shopping over there and you buy an airline ticket and go over there and look at houses.

And you know, start talking about, you know, where where will they accept your teaching credentials?

So that you can teach part-time over there, create some income, and then sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor and sit down with one of them and say, "Gosh, if I put 800,000, a million dollars with you, um what kind of income would that generate for me to live on in my retirement years if I pay cash for a five or 600,000, 400,000 dollar house?

Now, you're going to have some taxes on this probably, too. I don't know what you paid for that property, what your basis is, but um either way, that that's still That all makes a lot of sense. Um

but I also have a sense that you're kind of stuck there emotionally.

And you're going to have to unstuck and what's kind of the process you're going through right now of going, "This is smart. It's going to make me sad though to leave this farm after all these years. It's going to make me sad to leave California after all these years, but their taxes and the cost of living is driving me out. And you know, it's sad, but that's a reality and people do it all the time.

As a matter of fact, people have left California and New York and Chicago at record rates and have navigated to low tax states in the past 8 years like

never before in the history of the US.

Pretty crazy. It's like a reverse gold rush.

You know, in the old days there was all this migration to California in the 1800s, right? The gold the famous gold rush. And uh now it's like a reverse thing.

They're running away from running back to the gold, which is no longer there apparently, but yeah. Or if it is the government takes it. Yeah, so there's that and that's what's happening. Nicole is in Boise. Hi Nicole, how are you?

Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Um I'm trying to figure out if my ask to

my husband is one realistic and two reasonable

right now. Um financially.

Spit it out before we run out of time.

What is it? Um so we I'm trying to say as what we're doing is not working and we need a parent home with our three kids.

Um I just don't know I I after paying for

daycare for the three kids, we my income is $1,500 a month.

Okay. >> I don't know if it's realistic to ask him or if we can even financially afford for me to >> live on his income if you didn't have a daycare bill?

We're $500 a month short. Okay, what do you do for a living? >> income. I do finance right now. I am finishing

my masters. I am done next month with my masters.

But you got to stay home with three kids.

Yeah. Well, the goal is is to work

remote from home teaching at an online school. Well, why would that not make more than $500?

It would. Okay. The problem is is that that won't start until July without a paycheck until August.

We have a $1,000 rainy day fund right now and that's it.

We don't have car payments, but we do have a little debt. And

basically my last day of work is in April.

Oh, you already quit.

No.

They need a full-time person. I cannot do full-time any longer. And so I had to step back because of medical issues with my son.

You already quit. You already quit.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so it's >> So you got to find some way to stop gap the the difference between now and August, right? Yeah. So how many hours extra is he going to work to cover that?

He has offered to work one to two extra

days a week. He don't have a choice.

Somebody's got to feed your family. You all just made a decision. You just quit your job to go be with the kid that's sick. Which I don't blame you. That sounds like the right thing to do.

So you just got to find a stop gap and then you can make it work from there. [music] That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 48. Don’t Quit When the Journey Gets Hard | September 25, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:37 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Dr. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr.

John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody.

How are you?

>> You know, Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, guys, um I'm going to start off a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize, but uh my wife and I have

just recently found out that her parents

are asking my wife's uh sisters that are

under 18 for money for basic bills. Um

we don't really know, you know, I've heard in the past you guys say like don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance. Um, we're just kind of stuck because, um, you know, my sister-in-laws are 10, 12, and then 17. Um, so I'm just kind of

we're kind of confused on what to do.

>> How much money do they have?

>> Well, so my so the younger

sister-in-laws, they were, you know, working over the summer. Um, so basically what happened was is, you

know, uh, my sister, my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that, well, mom and dad kept tight saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah blah. So, I offered them my $400 that I got from dogsitting and they took it for groceries. And then um our or my 17-year-old sister-in-law

came over two weeks ago and said that they had quote unquote borrowed $1,000

from her for for bills for last month to cover. >> Is this true? Are they struggling that bad?

>> I I I would I would say so. Yes. It's

been talked about. You know, a couple months ago, my wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. He my

father-in-law owns his own business and it's been I know it's been struggling for quite a while. >> So, I I want to put things in order.

>> I have you hear us say on the all the time, you can't help family unless they come ask you. >> But before that, I'm always going to protect kids, >> of course. And if you got a 10-year-old that's coming to you saying, "Dad is saying, "I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money." Then I would I personally I would insert myself into that situation.

>> Okay. Okay. And that's what we were thinking because, you know, it's it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else except for themselves. Um, a lot of this is self-caused just based off their their career choices that they've had.

So, it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard for my wife to have respect as well. So, >> how long have you how long have you been worried?

>> Uh, it'll be two years in February.

Okay. Um, yeah, I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you, but >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um I I think she Yeah, cuz

here's the thing. If the two of you go over there at 2 years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

>> Of course. Yep.

>> It's not simply this situation. Um yes,

what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. Um, and if they were abusing the

children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services, >> right? Yeah, that's not happening. >> It' be that simple. Um, because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially.

>> And um, so I I think um, but I don't

think your wife your wife's what, 20some years old.

>> Yeah, she's uh, she's 23.

>> Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, "Y'all need to stop this. shall need to become responsible adults.

My guess is there's about a 0% chance that that's going to have any impact >> 110%. >> And if you show up saying, "I don't respect you guys," they're going to tell you to get out of their house. That's not going to help either. >> Yeah, that's a 40 year that's a 40-year long discussion.

>> Um I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about. >> What What Dave, tell me if I'm wrong.

So, my thought is when I when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, "Can we talk?" Um, and she's got

to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10-year-old, right?

>> Yeah. >> Um, but we just heard, >> and my Sorry, go.

>> Go ahead.

And and my idea at first was like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, "What if you like take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters? Like, how bad is it?

>> Is it is it really is that really happening? Are y'all really that bad?" >> Yeah. And is is there is there ways we can help? Are there ways we can support you? Or is there education? They may say, "Absolutely not." And then it's about giving your your niece or your sister-in-law, if you will, a safe place that she always knows she's loved somewhere else, but that's just going to she's going to have eight years of mom and dad borrowing money.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong >> Yeah. But but dude, you're 25, you're 24. I would stay out of that for right now. >> Yeah. That's not that's not >> Okay. >> That's actually not true either. It's a it's a bad it's a bad on-ramp to life,

but it's not an on-ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. >> Yeah. >> Um and then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay.

So, uh then those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. So, >> yeah. So, let me refer when I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeveless shirt and go bang on the door. I I think I think your wife

>> taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out and saying, "Hey, we just happened to hear this.

>> H I'm worried about y'all. How how bad?" >> I'm worried about my sisters. >> Yeah. >> How bad is it?

>> Definitely. >> And then y'all two have a hard conversation about could you help, will you help, and all that cuz the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500? Um and y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that. >> No, go ahead.

I'll give you the answer to that. No, you're right. because they're saying they're $10,000 short >> a month. >> So, I'm not throwing good money after bad.

into situations where we create a sustainable story.

>> We don't throw money at something $5 at

something that's a $100 problem. That's not you're not creating a sustainable story. Then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it.

And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, "You have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house.

Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life your your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby." And so, no, we're going to have, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the 17-year-old or the $400 from the 10-year-old doesn't fix it, nor does $500 from you fix it.

But do say, "I'll I'll I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life.

I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons." >> And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. So, if she sits down and says, "Y'all need to start." That's not going to go well.

But that idea of sitting down and saying, "Hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it?

>> That's a different avenue. >> Yeah, we are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in get our our income in line with our outgoing us peace. And

if I could ever help you get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that.

That kind of thing.

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Michelle is in Utah. Hi Michelle, how are you? >> Hi. Days before my wedding, I was laid off as the bread winner.

And a month later, my husband quit his job without asking me. He didn't have a savings or financial plan. To get us through, I made a tight budget with my personal savings and gifts we received from our wedding that he agreed to. But it's been so bad we had to go on welfare.

half, leaving us with almost nothing left. When confronted, he refused to share bank statements or make a plan to address >> why aren't you working behavior?

>> Um, I got laid off. >> I know. Like months ago.

>> Yeah. And I for a job. It's been tough.

>> And you're still not working.

>> Why? Yeah, I it's been really tough.

I've been applying for a lot of different positions over I'd say at this point 250. I'm happy with the amount of

interviews I've been getting. So hopefully I'll find something soon.

>> But you've been not working for 6 months. >> No, not six months. >> I'm sorry. >> Three months. >> Three months. You've been married three whole months.

>> Yeah. >> And all three months have been hell.

Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's been bad. Did you Did

this surprise you or did you notice about him coming in?

>> I He's been He's a medical resident, so he spent essentially his entire life in school. So, I did flag these things

while we were dating um as um what I saw

as problematic behavior, just poor spending habits.

>> He's a medical resident. Does he not get paid for that?

He does. But um a month, like I said, a

month after we got married, he decided he wants to go into a different specialty and >> Oh, he quit. >> Quit his job. >> Mhm. >> You quit medical residency and you don't have your MD.

>> He he does have an MD, but he wants to go into a different field within surgery. So, he wants to start a different residency, but it will take time for him to find that position.

Here's the thing. Your marriage challenges are deeper than spending and deeper than him quitting.

It is you don't respect this guy at all.

And when when life 3 months in or a

couple months into your marriage threw you guys a pretty big curveball, your biggest fears about him were exposed.

And you've you've reached that place.

The Gottmans call it the worst of the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. You're at contempt.

I don't like you and I think that I would be handling this different than you in a better way.

And unless you address the your marriage at that level, y'all are just going to keep playing whack-a-ole with symptoms.

You're going to create your own checking account, your own savings plan, your own, your own. He'll do his own, his own. and you you already are roommates.

Y'all will have a divorce inside your own house.

And so it's sitting down and saying,

>> "I don't respect you.

Here's how you've chosen to handle this. You quit your job. You quit this. You're not participating. You've got your own stuff. You don't want to be a part of this thing that we're building. We have to build a new marriage three months in already." And you got to call that. And

then you also sending out applications.

I mean, it sounds like you're hustling, but there's also something about you regaining your own dignity by just going

and working at Burger King on the breakfast shift just so you can feel like you're getting underneath yourself, too, because it's easy to start throwing rocks back and forth at each other, right?

>> Yeah. And I I I do respect him. It's just >> No, you don't. You don't. Um, you don't have >> You wrote You wrote a letter that you read over the air that said, "I don't respect him." >> Yeah. >> You just read it to us.

>> No, I I didn't say that. No.

>> No. All the words. >> The words say that. >> All the words that you wrote in that letter say that. >> Is that in a a really tough moment, he quit his job and took off without you?

>> And he stole our money that we agreed to while I'm trying to make be the one that is the adult and make everything behave.

and this guy's misbehaving here, here, here, and here. I don't blame you for not respecting him. That's not respectable behavior. But I think you you like owning that. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

>> So, what what's what's your question for us beneath these other questions like how can we help you?

>> So, in trying to move forward like you said, I realize that it's the issue is much bigger than let's say just money, right? Mhm. >> But um in trying to address behaviors in

both of us that maybe um led to this happening um I asked him to share his

face bank statements with me um and so

that we can address some of these behaviors together, but he's not being

cooperative and hasn't done so. So I

guess what I'm wondering now is what boundaries and improvements do I need to see and should we see in request to go forward because honestly my I don't

blame different people for having different financial knowledge but I think we should work together to make that to make each of us stronger in that regard and honestly I'm just concerned that even when he is a full-blown surgeon making that salary in several years

We still won't be financially stable because the spending would be in.

>> It doesn't start with the spending. It's the spending anchored into the fact that y'all have a marriage where he has his bank statements and you've got yours.

Y'all should have bank statements that anyone can pull up at any time that y'all talk about together regularly.

>> Yeah, sure. You're 100% right. And that's why we a joint savings and checking. >> If he actually does complete residency, which would surprise me, but let's say he does, you are your fears are 100% grounded. He's going to make half a million dollars and he's going to say, "This is my money, >> right?" >> Yes, you're right. I would be terrified of that if I were you, too.

>> So, what do I what's the next step for her? >> The next step is you being honest about sitting down and saying, "Do you want to be married with me?" This should have been a conversation y'all had before you got married. I'm not I'm not going to marry somebody. I'm not going to connect life with somebody that won't engage

with a joint f a dreaming about a joint future together where we put our money

in the same account because that funds our dreams and our commitment to each other. >> But you're already here.

>> Yeah. And we have transparency and we have a joint >> the t the tactical things that we are doing with every dollar. We are deciding together before we do them. This >> right and that's part of my concern.

>> Separation and deception. Separation and deception can't go forward.

>> I see. We did make a joint budget going into this and did make a joint savings um with our money um and a joint checkings. But in order to

hide the spending habits, he transferred from our joint savings to his personal account. And that's why I can't see the transaction. >> And we call that financial infidelity.

He's cheating on you.

He's deceiving you.

>> Do you have any idea what he spent it on?

>> Yeah. Um, unfortunately,

um, I just generally speaking, he wouldn't show me the statements, but it seems to be personal grooming, haircuts, buying stuff for her hair, fast food, and paying off his personal credit cards. Although going into this, given the severity of the situation, we had agreed to not um making payments on our

credit cards at this time temporarily.

>> Okay. So, he's got a really good haircut and he's debtree. It sounds like he's leaving.

>> Okay. >> It sounds like it sounds like he's setting up another move. >> Yeah. Either that or he absolutely 100%

is not interested in building a life with you. He's interested in continuing

his life next to you. And that's a very

different proposition. That's not marriage. That's roommates with benefits.

Can you imagine if I told Sharon I spent

money on a haircut?

>> I I can imagine the eulogy I would read.

at your service.

I can imagine that.

>> Wow.

>> I'm not saying the guy's bald. I'm just saying.

>> Yeah. There's something scary about here's there's something scary about sitting with a spouse 3 months in or 3 years in, >> 30 years in, creating a plan, shaking hands, we're going to do this together, and then you find out they went off on the side >> and did whatever they wanted to do. >> Do whatever they wanted to do. >> They completely lied.

>> Yeah. They lied to you. So, this is an integrity and trust breakdown, and you can't go forward with deception >> and integrity and trust issues. So, you guys have got to sit down and go uh what the teenagers used to call a define the relationship.

>> Yeah, DTR. Define the relationship. And so, uh is we or isn't we? Right. There we go.

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I promise you it's worth your time. Ethan is with us in Florida. Hi Ethan.

>> Hey Dave and Jo and uh Dr. John Deloney.

I'm It's I'm awesome. Um I'm just happy to talk to you guys. Sorry, I'm nervous.

>> No problems. >> No, you're good. How can we help, sir?

>> Okay. So, uh I'm a young veteran and I joined the military right out of out of high school. I did my four years, got my degree. Um and two years ago at the age of 22, I moved my wife and kid to Florida uh to start a military sponsored internship program at one of their approved companies. Um at the end of that internship, the owner of the company promised me $180,000 salary uh

if I bought his house. Uh, that promise was put into an offer letter and an employment contract. And that offer letter solely qualified me for a no money down VA jumbo loan. So, I proceeded to buy his house for uh $830,000 with an $845,000 mortgage at a

6.75% interest rate and a nearly $7,000

month uh payment. Uh immediately after I

closed, he cut my pay, making that offer letter fraudulent. And over the course of the past two years, my pay's uh progressively been cut. Uh as he ran the company to the ground. Um and as of two weeks ago, I'm completely unemployed.

I'm owed over 150,000 in wages. Um I've

since vacated the house, got a rental house for my wife and kids. I started a new job tomorrow. Um but I'm being forced into a short sale and we'll be about $200,000 underwater. Um so my

question is, what would you do if you were me? and what are my options to minimize the damage to my credit and my future home buying privileges?

>> So, at what point in this process

and how many times in this process did

your heart try to tell your head how stupid this was?

>> Um, I I could tell you a long story of how I was, you know, convinced it was very legit company. I mean, I interviewed today. >> I mean, you never stopped and looked at this and said, "This is a bad idea." >> Oh, no. I mean, the company had like 50.

>> No, I mean, I'm not talking about the company. The company The company doesn't matter. >> The whole story you told me, if the company is completely >> on the up and up, if they're really financially strong, and if they followed through on everything they said, this is still unbelievably stupid.

>> Yeah, I agree. Now looking back, I mean, at the time I was 22 years old and the guy seemed like he was made of money. I thought I was doing him a favor uh because he found out he's having twins and he want his wife he said his wife wanted a bigger house. Um

but yeah, I agreed. Looking back now, I was I was completely scammed. I never should have uh got in this situation.

>> You ever heard the phrase, "If something sounds too good to be true, it is." >> Yeah, that's this is it. >> Yeah, this is it. You're like the walking definition.

>> Yeah, I know. >> Oh my gosh, honey. I'm so sorry. what hell you have been through.

>> Thank you for your service to the country and you deserve to be treated better. I'm so sorry.

>> Um >> yeah, he's a veteran, too, so he he's taken advantage of veterans and >> that's not unusual, as you know.

>> Um >> yeah, >> there's veterans outside the gate of every single base for the next two miles. Just as soon as you leave the gate on each side of the road for the next two miles is stupid.

Like every stupid human trick is right outside the gate of every military base and most of them are run by veterans screwing over current active duty people. So it's not unusual at all. It's I wish I could say it was different but we know too much about your world. All right. So >> yeah. >> Why did you move out?

>> Um because so the the mortgage is going to go overdue starting October 1st.

Yeah. So >> um and I know my credit's going to get ruined. I won't be able to Why did you move out?

>> So I could start the short sale process or whatever as soon as possible. >> You can start short sale process while you're living in it.

>> Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I just wanted to get it over with and just move on with my life as soon as possible, I guess. >> Okay. It's interesting. All right. So, a

short sale is where the house brings

less than the mortgage. And if it is a short sale, remember this phrase because you're going to have trouble getting it with your Veterans Administration. And it's the only way you want to do it.

Don't do it if you don't get this phrase. And I doubt you're going to get it, but you need to get this phrase without recourse.

>> Okay. So, a short sale is the lender looks at the situation and says, "My borrower is a 22y old that doesn't make enough money to pay this bill, and it'll never happen in this century that we're going to get our money. The only money we're going to get is out of this house, and so we're going to accept a $600,000, $800,000 offer, $700,000 offer on this

house, and whatever of the mortgage doesn't get paid, we are going to forgive it without resource." That's a without recourse. That's a short sale.

The Veterans Administration seldom does a short sale without recourse, but if they have recourse, they're going to sue you for the difference. And it's no better than a foreclosure.

>> Who will sue me for the difference? The VA. >> The veterans. Yeah, the VA. And believe me, they will sue you.

>> Cuz what the the uh realtors have told me is that the the VA, they just eat the difference on the short sale. And >> if you do it without recourse, they eat the difference. But I let me tell you, I got to tell you, nine out of 10 times they don't. Now, the FHA will eat the difference. Uh, if you talk Fanny May, a conventional loan into doing a loan, doing a short sale, it's typically without recourse. But the VA, oddly

enough, ironically enough, which is designed to help veterans, is going to screw you. They're going to hammer you.

So, I'm afraid for you right now. Um, but it's the only it's the only route you've got. So, take the realtor at their word. But do not sign this unless

it says without recourse. I do not want

them chasing you for the difference. If they're going to chase you for the difference, make them foreclose.

>> Okay. >> Do not do a deal with them and then them screw you. You've been screwed enough by people you've done deals with.

>> So that's true. >> Yeah. So whatever the whatever this buyer offers, the VA takes that amount

and forgives the rest. Say it with me.

Without recourse.

>> You got that phrase. >> Without recourse. >> Yeah. I do not want them coming after you for the difference. And the paperwork needs to say that and you need to freaking read the paperwork.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz the VA is supposed to be there for

veterans and quite honestly they're not.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Otherwise, they would have never made this loan.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I I I reached out to them. They did an audit into the origination of the loan and they said it's legit that uh the company who's named after the owner has the same last name that I bought his house with an offer letter that he signed to work at his company. That didn't raise any red flags apparently.

>> No, that's that's why I took it.

>> No, that's why that's why we knew it was a scam.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you shouldn't have taken it.

>> And I would recommend an 22-year-old buying his first house, not buying an $860,000 home >> based on a bogus salary amount that you can't get anywhere else in the marketplace. The whole thing was a scam from day one. It was never going to happen from day one. >> Yeah. I mean, I could elaborate to Dr.

John about how this guy's like the textbook definition of a narcissist. And >> you know, he had a whole company of a bunch of people convinced until now.

>> Sure. >> That everything was legit. None of it was legit. It was all a lie. >> Well, you know, Ethan, what what I what I want to do though, if I'm in your shoes, is not define him.

>> I want to ask myself, what was I being that allowed me to step into the bear trap?

Yeah. >> Yeah. He we get obviously this guy's a scumball. Okay. But you obviously walked

right past several warning flags and you

need to learn from those so you never walk past them again. Cuz I did the same thing when I was your age and I went broke and that's what I'm trying to keep you from doing. I don't want you to get there. So if you're going to do something stupid, at least learn from it. And this whole thing was stupid. The

whole thing is a nightmarish mess. I'm so sorry, honey. Yeah. without recourse.

That's your phrase for the day, my man.

[Music]

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[Music]

Are you ready? Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and take the quick free quiz. We'll send you a personalized plan. Kirk is in Colorado.

Oh, hey Kirk. What's up?

>> Hey. So, I got a real estate question for you. >> Okay. >> We have a property that well, we there's

an open property next to us that came up for sale and I'm trying to figure out if it's a good idea, maybe a good investment to buy it.

>> You have the cash? >> So, we do.

>> Okay. How much is it?

>> Uh, so they're asking 40,000 >> for what? What is it?

>> Uh, so it's an empty lot. It's 1.3

acres. We live in a rural area, so

everyone's got about 1.2 acres that everyone lives on. Uh we enjoy having open lots on either side of us. So buying this would a prevent

someone from moving in and building next to us.

And b I had the idea of incorporating it

into my lot. So, at that point, if we

ever sell in like 10 years and move, we

would be selling 2.5 acres versus 1.2 acres. >> Okay. All right. Um, and you're out of

debt except your home.

>> Uh, no, we are 100% out of debt. We own our home. >> Okay. And you have the cash. All right.

>> Uh, I I would buy it. I have done that

quite often. Um, I bought 22 acres next

door to this building that I'm sitting in, commercial property. Um, I bought vacant lots adjacent to every property or several properties that I own when they come available uh for buffers, as

you said, privacy, uh, the enjoyment of a little extra space and sometimes just to keep contiguous things going. What I would not do is combine the properties.

You can combine them when you sell them simply by selling them both.

Okay. Uh, would it be cheaper as

property taxes is one versus having two different lots? >> Um, might be a tiny bit, but $40,000 worth of property taxes is not much in South Dakota. >> Okay. >> It's not We're talking about a biscuit.

>> So, um, the uh the thing So, I sold a a

big I built this big huge house on a hill u back in the uh early 2000s and I

sold it in 21. I had purchased two five

acre tracks that were were contiguous to it that were big lots in the area. So I and and had a little green space around it, too. So I was basically sitting on about 20 acres. All right.

>> Nice. >> And but I did not combine the lots. When I sold it, the buyer of the big house

didn't want the other lots. Didn't want

to spend that much. And so what ended up happening was I sold the house itself at a premium and then I ended up selling both the lots at a premium. They built next door to him as his choice because

he didn't want them. But I ended up with more money that way. Oh, >> okay. That makes sense. >> Yeah. So, but if if he wanted them all, I offered him everything in one package and he didn't want it, right? The buyer, which is fine. It's okay. It's his it's his place. He didn't have to do it. He was not as concerned about buffer as as I was, right? So, um I liked having 20 acres around me a lot. So, um, and I

kind of missed that, but yeah, but yeah, that's where we are. So, um, yeah, but that but keep it separate. But I, yes, I would buy and I don't know that the investment will work out to be a big deal for you. If if the 40 turns into 80 over a decade, you did good. I'd be shocked if it did that. Uh, but more than anything, it's peace of mind and control of the environment around you.

And you've deserve that. You've you've done a good enough job with your money to buy that. >> I would I bought that yesterday. Yeah.

No question about that. >> Yeah. >> And God bless any place in the country where you can get an acre and 1.2 for $40,000, man. I would buy that on principle, I think. >> Yeah. There's people Yeah.

>> Jeez. >> Wow. Scott's with us in Ohio. Hey,

Scott. How are you?

>> Doing good. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I am working through a little bit of a financial situation where I'm trying to understand if I should continue to be laser focused on my debt payoff or start uh planning for my future at 42 years old. Um, so I am a

single income earnner household with no kids. I make about 150,000 a year. And

at the end of last year, I started to realize that just my numbers weren't adding up for my income. I was constantly behind the ball trying to move money around to pay all my bills and just came to the realization that I was both stubborn and financially illiterate. Um, >> dude.

>> Wow, that's brutal. >> Welcome to the meeting. I'm John and this is Dave.

>> We've been there too, brother.

>> Yeah. So, I built a really strict budget. Um, since January 1st, I've paid off 37,000 in debt.

>> Wow. Um, I'm down to one credit card, which was I had 27,000 in credit cards in January. I'm down to about 9,200 on a credit card. It is now at 0% interest and paying about 1,200 a month on it.

>> Okay. >> Um, then I have a home loan for my roof,

a car, student loans, and finally my

mortgage. And >> not counting the mortgage, what's the rest of it?

>> Um, let's see here. About 53,000.

And you've already paid off 37 since January.

>> Yeah. So, I should have that paid off in about 16 months and then I'm left with about 196,000 for the the uh mortgage.

>> Amazing. Well done, sir. >> Outstanding, dude.

>> Thank you. Um, and then I have about 71,000 in my 401k. Nothing in Roth,

nothing in HSA yet. >> And you're not adding anything to the 401k currently?

>> Uh, no, I am because of where I work. I get 6%. >> Oh, you didn't you didn't understand the program? And the program is you stop the 401k.

>> Okay. >> Oh, now we're going to get out of debt in 12 months. This is so cool.

>> Um, I have about 12K in reserves. I have

a Century home. >> Wait a minute. Now we're going to pay down that credit card today.

>> Today. You're going to be gone today.

>> Look at this. Now we're out of debt in 10 months. This is so cool.

>> Okay, look. Listen. You have created a

either save myself now and not help

myself later or help myself later and

take longer on this. And what I want to tell you is every dollar you pay off right now is helping future you.

>> Yes. >> Your shortest distance between where you are and financial security and wealth is not screwing around with your match and it's not hoarding that $12,000. It's leaning in with everything the way we taught you and you're not doing it. But you need to go do it the shortest distance between where you are right now and that is 100% debt freedom. Because

when you don't have a stinking payment in the world, you rebuild that emergency fund very quickly. Then you start putting 15% of your income away and you're young and you make 150,000 later.

You're going to make 250,000 10 years from now and you're still putting 15% away. You're going to have $10 million if you do what I tell you to do instead of doing it your way.

>> Well, that's what my goal was. this 6 to 10 million for being realistic in today's climate with inflation and everything. I feel anybody in their 40s is going to need 5 to 10 million to have a comfortable life. >> Yeah.

>> 60 is even better. But, you know, it's okay. It's, you know, you're going to be okay. You'll be okay with a million, but you'll be better off with six and you'll be better off with 60.

So, but the point is quit trying to screw around with this system that works. Dude, >> you you really have made good progress, remarkably, without doing what we taught you to do. >> Here's the deal.

You just passed the halfway mark. I mean you I mean not dollar-wise, but you're running and you're kind of getting tired of running. And when you get tired of running, you start giving yourself reasons why you can go ahead and just quit. You've already done the training. You've proven it to yourself. What if we just went and got a burger? Hear me and Dave say, "Finish this race, man." >> Okay, >> you're tired. You don't like sending 1,200 bucks every penny away. We get it.

You're dude, you are cooking on this thing. >> What do you owe on the car?

>> Um 16,000.

>> Okay. Not much. All right. Good.

>> And then my house is worth about I think it was 345 and >> that's that's going to be paid off in like seven years the way you're going.

So you're doing so good. Yeah.

Seriously, if you will take 10 months of doing it my way and have almost nothing in savings down to $1,000, baby step one, and stop your 401k for a lousy 10 months, the the ground you'll make up as a result of that because of this increased focused intensity is going to get you out of debt so fast mathematically and psychologically and spiritually. Um, because the feedback loops are going to kick in and you're going to go, I love this. I'm paying off more and more and more, more and more.

And you're going to get out. It's that's what happens in the brain. And so that's kind of how it sounds. >> My my brain isn't quite so old witchcrafty, but I get it. >> No, that's a that's like a Yeah, >> like a wizard, >> whatever. You're the bad guy. Evil laugh, right? >> Yeah. There you go. >> Yeah. It's like >> There we go.

>> You can do this, man. But quit screwing around with it. Get it done.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney show massive hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Lynn is in New York. Hi Lynn. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I wanted to see if I should take out

a $10,000 loan to help my mom fix her

kitchen. Um there's some emotional reasons why I would and why I wouldn't.

And ultimately, I'm trying to see if the financial the financials make sense to help me make the decision.

>> So, you don't have $10,000 to give your

mom.

>> I don't. No. >> Okay.

And your mom's broke?

>> She Yeah, she has a pension. She has social security. She's retired. So, she's on a fixed income.

>> How How old is your mom?

>> She's almost 80.

>> And how's her health?

She's actually quite spry for her age.

>> Good. Okay. And what's wrong with her kitchen?

>> Um, she tends to hire uh do a lot of DIY

and like hire handymen who aren't quite handy. And so the last few years

>> uh to to renovate the home in general.

>> Oh, I see. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so, um, you know, she's half

funded projects over the years and it's left the kitchen, you know, with only a subfloor, no cabinets, no countertops.

Um, it's just kind of in a state of disrepair. And she is older even though

her health um is pretty great. I worry

about, you know, her age and food safety, physical safety in that space.

>> Wow. really bad decisions.

>> Yeah. >> Um Okay, man. I just appreciate how much you love your mom. That's sweet of you

and uh that you want to take care of her and you don't want her living in a house that's um probably wouldn't pass codes right now. Um

so that's nice of you. Um you do know

you called the show where we'd never tell anybody to borrow money, right? You know you called that show. I I I did and

I'm you know I'm trying to the the other part is you know I've worked really hard over the last few years um >> to get out of debt and I'm not going to tell you to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen.

>> The math the math doesn't work.

>> Um I mean if you had a million dollar laying in your account and you want to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen, that's fine. But I wouldn't do that. >> Um >> okay. >> And and I certainly wouldn't borrow the money to do it under any circumstances.

and I but I do applaud your heart. Now, let's try to fix the problem though.

>> Okay. >> A different way. So, is your mom um in a

good church?

>> Um she I would say she does go to a

church. Um >> good. >> But the church is the place where she has been recommended these people who have like fixed her home. But also, >> that's even better. That's even better.

>> So, here's what I want you to do. I want you to take some pictures of the mess that is her kitchen and I want you to go have a lunch meeting with her pastor

and say some of the jack legs that go to your church have done this and so I'm going to ask since we have an elderly widow over here that you organize a work group of some young men who actually know how to swing a hammer and come over and put her some cabinets in and put a floor down.

I want you to take care of an elderly widow because she's an elderly widow and she's a member of your church. And I really want you to do it because some of the jack legs that go to your church are the ones that cause the problem in the first place.

>> And I got a feeling you can shame this pastor into getting some work done.

>> Okay. >> Nothing feels better than shaming a pastor.

>> I'm messing with you. I'm being harsh. But you see what I'm saying? >> But can I tell you this is some of the best advice I've heard you give, Dave. I love this idea cuz you know why it is?

It's the bluff call. Are y'all going to be who you're supposed to be?

>> You're going to take care of widows and orphans. >> Here you go.

>> Now, you got you got quiet on us, Lynn.

Why don't you like that plan? >> I mean, the handbook says that's real religion. >> Widows and orphans. >> Yeah, >> that's what the handbook says.

>> My mom um she doesn't like accepting help. She's not always the most uh >> But she was going to take a $10,000 loan from you to do a kitchen. That's called help. >> She didn't ask me necessarily for the >> one. I know. But you were you had a plan where she was going to do that. So, let's have a plan where her church supports her cuz her church's jack legs are the ones that mess this up.

>> And by the way, this is going to be good practice because over the next 10 years, she's going to need more and more support and care from you and others

>> and others. And you're going to have to get out of the habit of deal debt fixes anything.

>> It makes it worse. >> Yeah. because I don't want to give you a negative scenario, but I really don't want you paying a loan off after your

mom passes away and you're paying payments on a kitchen that she no longer uses.

That would be really really negative.

>> Can you imagine writing that check every month?

>> Yeah. And it wouldn't be um it wouldn't be an investment in that sense that I >> No, it wouldn't. Yeah.

>> No, it's not. It's just consumption and it just you it's just your sweetheart wanting to help your sweet mom and I I

think both of you are sweet ladies and I I I'm don't want her to get messed over anymore and I don't want you to mess yourself over trying to be sweet and so let's not do this. Let's not step up in this trap. I'm real serious. If I if it was you, if I was you, I'd go have a and I've got the money to write the check, but I I in this case, I think this church has an opportunity to serve.

win-win win-winwin wins where everybody wins and a widow gets an elderly widow

gets her kitchen put back together and the church gets an opportunity to go help somebody out. That's awesome. And I don't know how we got here, but seriously, if a recommendation came from inside of her congregation and they left an elderly widow in this situation, the pastor really has an opportunity to work with that person on their character.

>> Right. >> Absolutely. >> U because you just don't want to be on this list of you don't want to be on the list of people messes with kids, widows, and orphans. It's there's several things in the scriptures that are really don't don't you don't want to be on that list.

Uh you want to be on the list of the people that help those people. That's the list you want to be. That's the the good it's the naughty list and the good list. I mean, that's this is it. It's not Santa Claus, but it's God. And so, you know, you know, it's woo woo.

Serious stuff.

>> That's a You know what I That's a great idea. I hope that happens more and more.

>> Well, you have so many opportunities to do things that way. And um and honestly,

I work with so many churches. I mean, we've worked with had 50,000 churches have taught 10 million financial peace

congregants um over the last 25 years.

And I know a bazillion churches that

have the funds and have the systems to take care of the

single mom, the widow, the orphan, and they don't always know a way to connect to one. >> Yeah. >> And so just giving them the opportunity, letting them, hey, here's one. And they go, thank you. >> Yeah. and they're ready to go do it.

It's pretty incredible that they're just standing there ready to go. They they're willing, ready, and able. They just don't have the connection and because no one wants to raise their hand and say, "Help me." >> And I know a number of young men who are asking, "Hey, where?" There's no places to serve. Like, I can go to a local soup kitchen or something, but I got to get in line and there's other man, if you could go to church, >> there's a 25-year-old Bible study group of men at that church, >> show up on a weekend project, they can put that whole kitchen back together.

>> Be amazing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then they don't walk a little bit taller.

>> Everybody wins, boys and girls. This is how this works.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. If your private

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Ava in Ohio. Ava writes, "My

significant other and I have been together for 15 years and we have two kids together. We're both 30 years old.

He's currently scraping by being self-employed, making roughly $65,000 annually, but pays taxes of about 6,000

bucks and his reimbured expenses are included in that 65k, making his true income about $26,000 a year. We do not

have joint finances. I pay for everything for us from the house, utilities, groceries, and even his health insurance. I make 163,000

annually. He does have some great skills to get a decent job, but chooses not to.

How do I motivate him to get a better job and ask him to start paying for part of our family expenses?

>> I don't think you can. In 15 years, you hadn't motivated him to get married.

I don't know how you're going to motivate him to get a job.

Uh, and by the way, 30 years old, we've

been together 15 years. This started when you were 15. It's >> high school, man. Yeah, it's Dustin's Creek. I don't I don't want to wait.

This is good, man. I like I like teenage romances.

But, uh, he's got a pretty good setup here. His wife is rich. He can kind of do what he wants. >> You have three kids.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. just one of them is

humongous and old.

I I think the path here is to sit down and be honest about you spent half your life together and to sit down and say um

we've been co-managing our lives. We've been running in parallel and I want to make um I want to start making a marriage. I want to make a life together. Not where I have my money, you've got your money, I pay all the bills.

you um just kind of do what you want when you want to do it. But what do we want our life to look like? How do we want to feel when we come home every day? What dreams do we have?

And he's probably going to say, "I'm good." And then pop the top on a cold Budweiser and go on about his day. But that's where that conversation starts.

and D. >> Yeah. I I but I I also um

Okay. Th this is how the the problem is

not just that we're here. It's how we got here.

Okay. There was never any request for

this man to grow up. This is an adolescent. >> Exactly. And so he didn't have to um get

married to have kids and to start a life with this woman. He can just run. He doesn't have to develop a career. He can go over here and do something. I'm going to follow my passion. Oh, brother, you're killing me here. And um you know,

we're broke, but I'm real passionate about it. No, the um No, it doesn't work. So the problem is you've got to undo at least 10 years worth of

uh me mixed messages that you've been sending with your behaviors with what you've allowed. >> And this is not about >> you get what you tolerate.

>> Exactly. But this is not about we can't make ends meet. This is about we've got

money. She makes 163k and he makes 26.

So they're making >> they make 200 grand a year, >> right? They're fine. The deal is I don't respect this guy that I've been with for half my life. >> Yeah. >> And you got to have that conversation.

Are we going to do life together or not?

And here's what that looks like.

And let me ask you this. It it occurs to me and I'm stepping over into your field of expertise, your world, but it feels like to me, not only does she not respect him, she knows she allowed all this. >> Exactly. >> And so she's starting to be mad at herself.

Almost all of this starts with I'm angry at myself and I'm gonna I put it out into the world. >> Yeah. >> And so yeah, if she wants to sit and that's why it's so important when you sit down and have these conversations to use I statements. I've allowed this.

have gone out and created a world where where >> we're not married. We have two kids.

>> You don't have to do anything. >> You don't work much.

>> I'm saying I want to be connected and

build something together. And that's where this is a scary thing. You kind of got to do one or the other in this situation. Ava has to have an or what statement. Here's what I want to have in

my life or I'm gonna go ahead and

move like solidify the separateness that is our world already. Or I'm not leaving this guy. He's a part of my life. I'm going to make peace with it and I'm going to go on about my life. Most people get stuck in between the or I don't want to make a declarative or what statement, but I just want to complain about it and be frustrated about it all the time. So, either make peace with it.

You make a great salary. We're moving on. You got a third kid. He's maybe he's fun and whatever. Or I'm going to draw a line in the sand and say, "As for me and my house, I I want more than this. I deserve more than this. I want to build something together. >> I don't want to be a single mom anymore." >> That's right. You got to grow up. I need

a man in my house.

Not a third kid.

And more importantly, here's what that looks like. Here's the path for that.

So, I tactical uh steps. If you're in

that situation, I'm going to say if you

want to go forward, it's going to look like this. You're going to get a career development plan and execute on it.

We're going to get married. And in order to work our way through all that, we're going to sit down and see a counselor.

>> Absolutely. >> And and and if you don't want to do those three things, you are electing for us not to be together anymore because I don't want to be a single mom and pretend like I'm not anymore. Since behavior is a language, you're telling me very clearly, I don't want to be a part of your life. Yeah. Yeah. And here

here's the problem. Okay. The data now

tells us, and John and I have talked about this, we talked about it on our tour quite a bit. It came up a lot. the um there there's tons of actual research

multiple different research projects that are airtight research looking at actual um labor department data, Census

Bureau data that says a single man

35 years old, it has 17th of the net worth of a

married man that's 35 years old.

A single woman that's 35 years old has

onetenth of the net worth of a married

woman that is 35 years old. Married men

live 7 to 10 years longer and have a 20%

higher probability of surviving cancer than single men.

Wow. the so your net worth and your

incomes all the data tells us your net worth, your incomes, your health, uh your uh

relational satisfaction is in multiples of 10

greater for married couples than couples that shack up.

And yet more than half the couples listening to this right now are shacked up instead of married. And you think you haven't done any damage, but you have. you you've lost what we call what the data calls a marriage advantage

>> versus the shack up advantage. There is no data, zero data that says you

outperform physically, relationally, and financially by shacking up the marriage, the married couple. Zero times do you

outperform?

Zero. And yet everybody does it. But I I

I think what's important is the financial metrics, the health metrics, those are lights on the dashboard of a

person who has a life where they exhale, where they can anchor in and go work hard, right? You can work harder when you know you've got a you've got a ride or die next to you. >> Um when you're in the hospital, you've got a reason to get up and get out. Like when you're you've got all like those things, I would never tell somebody go get married so you have more money.

I would say, hey, go build a an amazing life with somebody. It's going to be hard. It's going to be a challenge. Go do that.

And I I would tell you that the dashboard is right. Um I think you're exactly right.

The financial problems are never the problem. They're the symptom. >> So financial limitations are never the problem. They're the symptom. Financial uh success >> is never the real success. It's the symptom. It's the symptom. And so what we're telling you is is that it turns out that the best way and like for

instance when we interviewed the 10,167 millionaires we asked them you know what percentage of you what did you or how what's your relationship with your spouse have to do with your wealth. 89%

said a willing, able, and enthusiastic

partner is what my spouse was. When you

interview the general public that's broke, you ask what percentage is your spouse? You know, what percentage of you is your spouse a willing, able, and enthusiastic partner?

40%, not 89. So there's a causal effect

here. Cause and effect here. You know, it's a causal statistical analysis.

That's what teammate. >> It's the dashboard light. That's exactly what it is.

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Caitlyn's in Missouri. Hi, Caitlyn. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave and John. I'm calling to find out if my husband and I can financially afford for me to stay home with my baby.

>> Can you live on his income?

>> I I think so. My husband's takehome is about 6,000. My take-home is about 4,000.

Uh we have no debt, no mortgage. Our house is worth $500,000. We have about $250,000 in four mutual funds that you

recommend. >> How much is in How much is your house payment?

>> Oh, no mortgage. >> Oh, wow. Wow. >> House is worth 500,000. >> Well, you ought to be able to live on six grand, can't you?

>> Yeah. Uh, I think our overage would be about 2,000. My husband's currently only putting 5,000 toward retirement, so he needs to up that to 15%. But I think it's hard. I like my job, but I want to stay home with my baby, but it's a little hard. It's a little scary to quit. Um, >> well, how is you working now? You're working now. >> Yes. >> You're back to work after the last baby.

Uh, this is my first baby and I'm back to work after the 12 weeks of leave.

>> Okay. And Yeah, that's hard. That's a real hard thing. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, well, why don't you live on um your husband's income and bank your income for a couple months?

>> Okay. >> Just to prove to yourselves you can do it. >> Mhm.

No, that's a good idea.

>> I think you can. The numbers you gave me sound right. >> Yeah. It is gonna it's going to require a life change though.

And the life change is >> we're not going to be able to be as willy-nilly as we were because you have no payments. You got no mortgage. When you're bringing home 10,000 bucks a month, you can kind of do whatever you want. >> Yeah.

>> And by reducing your income 40%, you're going to have to make some changes like we're going to have to eat at home and we can't take that vacation. And that's just going to be the tradeoff to being a stay at home mom.

I'm 29. He's 27. I who knows how many years I'd be off. Maybe three to five and then go back. It's just scary, I think, to to quit your job and take the leap of faith. >> And I it and you have to be rec ready for a couple of things. Thing number one, you are now a part of the woman

industrial guilt complex or the mother industrial guilt complex.

People will be after you for staying at home. People will be after you for not going back to work. people are going to want to do stuff and you're going to have to say no. Um, your husband's going to want a new thing and he's going to have to say no because there's just going to be this always this sense that I'm not enough or I'm doing the wrong thing. Knowing that on the front end,

you can you can prepare for it.

>> Might not even be a sense. It might be a direct message from some loser on the outside, >> right?

>> And so, you just got to go, h your opinion doesn't count. You don't really get a vote. We're living on six grand and I'm here with the baby. And I'm really really happy with that idea. I also understand I'm no longer a professional woman and that does bother me a little bit. But I made a choice between that, put that on the scale, I put a baby on the other side of the scale, the baby won.

>> But that doesn't make you go you suddenly not want to have a career >> or not be intellectually stimulated by hitting and setting goals, >> right?

>> Yeah. >> And so putting some things in place like I'm going to have two or three women that I get together with every week and we're going to have a book study. We're going to talk about politics or deep stuff or projects or I'm going to backfill some of those intellectual needs, the stimulation needs, the adult conversation needs. I'm going to make sure that's still a part of my life because it's meaningful to me and it makes me who I am.

>> Yeah. I think I get scared that I won't be able to find a job when I try to back enter back. You will. Oh, yeah. No troubles at all.

>> Okay. >> What's your what's your field?

>> I work in marketing. >> Okay. And I have an MBA.

>> Okay. But >> I've only been >> the stuff you learned in the MBA was uh generic and strategic. It was not tactical marketing skills you use today.

>> True. >> Yeah. Tactical marketing skills were acquired by being in the marketplace and moving around. You will lose those because the way we do marketing today is vastly different than it was 18 months ago and way different than it was 10

years ago.

And so if you stay out of the market five years, you know, what is the what does AI do to the marketing process?

It's going to change it >> and you're going to be behind on that.

But does that mean you can't get a job?

No. You still have the basic marketing skill set and then you'll have to just learn some of the tactical things to stay up to date. The other thing you could do is um after the baby is a year

old or so um you could start doing some

freelance stuff on the side just to keep your skills sharp just for fun. Not because you have to um but because it keeps your keeps your um toe in the water and we know what the temperature is. >> Mhm.

That might be fun because there's a lot of small businesses could use somebody with an MBA uh with marketing skills to

help them move some of their marketing along and they don't have this they don't have the financial bandwidth with somebody on full-time like that.

>> That's what I would do. >> That's a good idea. >> Which is easy for me to say on this side having never had to make that that trade, right? But finding one or two people who have a small business and you can help or you can take a little bit of money and but you keep your doing it less for the money but more for the skills.

But here's the thing. You guys make good money, you and your husband, and he makes good money, and you've already done a great job. You got a paid for house. You got money saved.

You're going to be in great financial condition.

with Sharon Ramsay was she never went back.

She transferred from full-time mom to full-time grandmom to full-time Bible study leader and book club leader and

um, generally um, all these things. I mean, she's got her thing and and none of it is earning an income, quote unquote, um, other than allowing me to, which earns her a great income. But, uh, you know, all that stuff. So, you know, that it doesn't have to be that you do this in order to be a real person.

>> So, just whatever you want to do, that's the point. And whatever keep whatever whatever floats your boat, right? Whatever whatever makes you happy and takes you there. So, I I would do all of those things. But yeah, I think coming home if if you see you'll worry about the financial thing less if you just take two months and say we're going to bank my check and live on yours, make our every dollar budget with your check, your take-home pay. And by the way, he does have to get that back up to 15%.

You got to be putting 15% of your income away at least. And and you don't have a

payment in the world. There's no reason you can't do that except that you want to spend it on other stuff. So that you really do need to be doing that. But 15% of 6,000 is not that bad. It's not not it's 9 900 bucks a month. It's very doable.

Very doable. And that's going to take you to a lot of wonderful places that you're going to want to go to. And for everybody listening, I think this is an important moment.

This couple has put in the work up until

now. And now they can honestly sit across the table and do whatever they want. And it's not a matter of I have

this deep sense that I want to stay at home, but I can't because I've got all this past, all this old things that I've already bought, but I haven't yet paid for dragging behind me. And so, they put the work in, and here they are, and now they can do whatever they want. It doesn't mean it's going to come without a sacrifice, without frustrations, but they can do whatever they want because they put the time in. So, um, and I love that they're in this they have this opportunity.

Yeah, I I do think that

I'm pot and I don't think I'm sure uh that ladies in our society today

uh get a lot of messages from a lot of people that don't have a right to put a vote in on whether they should work or not. And so if you're working and well,

you're a bad mom. If you're a full-time mom, stay-at-home mom, well, you you're you know, you've abandoned you're you've not become your best version of you. you didn't go be a professional woman and do all this stuff and and they get these guilt messages from both sides and um

and like you said it's the ind industrial female guilt machine right and what I hear a lot on my show is

people make the sacrifice women make the sacrifice they stay at home and suddenly they find themselves in a place that they've never experienced which is a deep loneliness as they've got no other adults in their life and they either turn to scrolling >> as a way to connect with the outside world and that's where these messages get dumped in there. >> Oh god. >> Or their spouse, their husband comes home and it becomes like a the the trash can. They they he dumps all the bad stuff that happened his day.

She dumps all the bad stuff and that's a way to split your marriage. And so knowing, hey, I'm going to be all by myself and so I'm going to not just go home and and lock myself in a box for the next three to five years, but I'm going to create community intentionally that I might have got just at the water cooler at the office. I'm going to be intentional about it. And man, then there's gonna have a whole bunch of people speaking into your life that are real people that actually care about you.

>> Yeah. And here's the trick. Decide what you're going to do and you and your husband, you're the ones who really get a vote. What everybody else thinks doesn't really matter.

[Music]

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one bestselling author personality. You're the number one person. That's it. >> I'll take it. >> Yeah. You're all of that. and uh number one show on the Ramsey networks. Not really, but a big show on the Ramsey networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at 88 8255225.

Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us Thomas. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Hey John. What's going on? I'm calling today because uh I'm 18 years active duty uh military.

>> Thank you. >> Um unfortunately Thank you. Uh, unfortunately, a couple years ago, life happened. Um, and I landed up getting divorced. Um, with that, before we got

divorced, my ex-wife and I, we were completely debtree and, uh, I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments. >> Holy. >> Um, 40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds.

>> Wow.

>> Um, but now that I'm divorced, uh, I've been divorced now for two years. Um, I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt. >> What in the world? What did you buy in two years?

>> Uh, so I bought a vehicle uh your baby steps. >> What kind of truck is it? >> Um, it's it's a Ford Raptor.

>> Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas.

>> It's definitely part of it. Uh, >> no. It's the whole >> It's all of it. Taylor Swift.

>> Get your divorce raptor truck. We know what it is, right? >> It's called I'm the problem. It's me.

>> So, my uh I'm calling because I can pay

this debt off pretty quickly. About $78,000 a year.

>> You make 78 a year.

>> And you owe what on the Raptor?

>> I owe 57.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I owe 37 on the Raptor and 18,000 in um credit card debt that I used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Um, I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP.

>> Um, you can't afford to do that broke.

>> Um, so I was thinking, so my my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. Uh, I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. Um,

however, in the divorce, uh, my ex-wife

decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the TSP. Um, I've still been

contributing because in my head, I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite just not contribute because I don't want her to get Wait, >> when does she get half? Now.

>> Uh, uh, 67.

What? Oh, no. I meant that's that's not possible.

>> Is this divorce isn't final, is it?

>> Um, it is. Yes, sir. So, when we went to court, there was I had several different uh options that I could do. Um, >> and you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67.

>> Yes. >> Not h not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there at H. That's not right. Something's wrong.

>> That's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff. They said that was the better of the deal.

>> Apparently, these lawyers didn't take math class.

That's a horrible deal. Um, all right.

So, you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces.

>> I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her. Now,

that is a normal process in a divorce.

And she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes.

It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67.

Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP.

>> Yeah, that would be normal.

>> But half the TSP today, not at 67.

>> Well, now what the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the

TSP.

>> Okay. Now or at 67?

>> At 67 when it matures.

>> Okay. Then it should be half. What? half

like you're half of your TS. How much is in your TSP today?

>> Uh 166.

>> Okay. So half would be 80 84 thou

83,000. Okay. Right.

>> Yes. >> Today. So whatever 83,000 grows to

at age 67, she should get. But she

shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then.

Right. So, that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing altogether. >> You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you

get half at 67.

That's just very weird, dude. Like, like

these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent. Weird. Okay. But if you did

do that, you need to go back and clarify. Is it what half of it today

becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just

half of whatever's in there? Cuz if it's

half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it. You're done with that.

You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff.

But you the TSP is off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next you know how many how old are you?

>> Uh I'm 36. >> Yeah. Good God. For 30 years you're going to contribute to her. No thank you. You did the worst deal ever.

So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man.

I'm telling you that I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him. >> This is horrible.

But you did the deal. I guess it's final. >> So you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half what 83,000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there. >> It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the 83 out.

>> They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did.

>> So >> yeah, John is correct. It is whatever is in there later cuz I tried to fight and get the half now. But then they were like, >> "Okay, then then here's what here's what it is. She gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else cuz you're not going to add anything else to it. You're stupid if you do." >> Okay. >> But you are the one that signed this divorce decree also. So Oh my god. This is a horrible man. It's just horrible.

>> She has 30-year claim on future earnings for you. >> Jeez, man. >> Y'all have kids?

But we have two of them. >> I've heard I've heard a few >> This is I want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is.

>> I've heard I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18.

Right. So if you were making 25 grand and suddenly you're making 150 grand. >> That's child support. >> That's not this >> that's child support.

That's normal. >> That's that's what I'm saying. I've heard of that. >> That's normal.

But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it. Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and you broke your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney.

So, you've got to sell this truck, honey. And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them, but this truck is brain damage. So, it's killing you. You cannot afford to drive this truck. It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck. get your budget back balanced and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this TSP.

[Music]

[Music]

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That's called being an adult. But how do you choose from all the options out there? Well, it's actually simple. Life insurance has one job. It's to replace your income if you die. Term life insurance is the most efficient, inexpensive way to do that. The others include investments and crap that rip you off, like whole life and permanent life. We don't do those. End up doing a really bad job at everything. Instead, just do term life. 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15 to 20year level term, which means the premium stays the same.

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or click the link in the show notes.

Wendy is in Washington. Hi Wendy, how are you? >> Hi, good. Thanks for having me on.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so there's there's no easy way to

say this, so I'm just going to jump right into it. >> Cannonball. Let's do it.

Okay. So, um my sister stole everything

from my parents in their senior years

and my mother died of neglect under her care and my dad ended up in the hospital days later during which she wiped out their bank accounts, maxed out their credit cards and she contributed on some level if not all of their reverse mortgage being maxed out to the tune of $450,000.

Um, my father has later stages of dementia. Now I know from going through

what I've been with him the last two years that my mom uh also I'm positive

had dementia at the time. And so my sister had been living with them slowly took over she moved in right before COVID slowly took over their home slowly

took over their finances and just abused them because they weren't mentally and physically able to do anything about it.

What a lovely girl.

That's >> heartbreaking. Really hard.

>> Yeah, >> really hard. So, um, my dad is safe.

He's in a secured memory care facility now and he's being cared for. It took me seven months of fighting on so many levels I can't even name them. It would take 20 pages of writing. Um, but finally got his social security safe, which is all he has left. Um the home that they owned for um almost 40 years

was auctioned off um and we lost it and

um I did not expect to get any funds from it because of the condition she left in. It basically looked like a meth house that squatters got into.

>> Mhm. >> Um but it did it auctioned off for an

amount that left funds to the tune of about $130,000 left. Um, and as soon as those funds

came into my control, I was forced to go through conservatorship and guardianship to help my dad because their will, unfortunately, their will wasn't notorized. And every banking institution and everyone we dealt with said that it wasn't valid. And so it took me a lot of

hard work to try to prove that there were any funds stolen when I didn't have access or and I wasn't a POA to request copies of financial statements and those things. So it took me seven months to get his money safe, his account safe and

um and he ended up homeless and living with my husband and I and we cared for him for seven months until his health got to a point where he needed to be in a secured memory care facility.

>> I got you. Okay. So, where are we today?

>> So, where are where we are is the house actually auctioned off. We have the 130,000. He immediately lost Medicaid because he had that money. So, we're on private pay. And I don't expect those funds to last through mid next year.

>> Okay. And then he'll be back on Medicaid. >> Then he'll be back on Medicaid. Correct.

And so my here's my question. Um if if

my dad passes, he's you know I mean the

reality of it is it could be at any time. If my dad passes, the will states

um the intent of the will and what my parents wanted was to the funds to be divided between their living children, which would be my brother and my sister and I. Um my soul cannot do that based on everything she's done. And I'm I guess >> You mean the 130,000 if he died today?

>> Yes. >> Because that's the only thing that's left, right? There's nothing else. >> That's all that's left. And honestly, there are a few bills like between attorneys fees and things. I just don't see anything being left over. But I also didn't expect the house to sell.

>> Yeah. When you uh when you went through all the stuff for the last seven months, did you have expenditures out of your pocket?

>> Oh, yeah. My husband and I financed

him. Yeah. Yeah. I I did a little I did

a little bit and reimburse yourself.

>> All of it. >> Okay. >> Out of the 130.

>> Okay. That move that moves it out of his name into your name.

>> As a conservator, I had a very strict budget that I had to stick to so I could bring it up next time I go to court. >> Yeah. Go to court and say, "I need all my legal fees reimbursed for protecting him." >> Yeah. Those were covered. Those got reimbured. >> Yeah. And I need to pay all the legal bills. I need to pay out of this. I want to deplete this money down to where there's nothing there. And then you don't have a moral conundrum.

>> Yeah. I just was curious if you know if

the intent of the will still stands and

>> Okay, >> the will's not valid. Everybody told you that.

>> Okay. >> The will doesn't it's not even a will because it's not notorized and your state requires it to be notorized, >> right? >> You he dying He's dying without a will.

>> For me, >> he's dying without a will.

>> Okay. So, >> because he's not competent to execute a will. I'm sorry. He's not competent to execute a will under your state's terms right now. >> Correct. and he and he doesn't have a will under your state's terms right now.

Am I understanding that right? That's what everybody told you, right? >> Correct. >> That's why the conservatorship was put in place because the will was deemed invalid.

>> Okay. >> So, the will doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. >> That's for >> Yeah. But guess what? The state is going to say, most states say the three the

three children are the three heirs and they' be split three ways if there's no will. That would be normal. So, you're back to the same problem. But there's going to be no money left if I'm you because I will have spent this down like the next time I'm in front of the judge.

>> Okay. >> I'm going to go buy him an $80,000 bed and put in there.

>> Yeah. >> I'm serious. There's not going to be any money left. >> Yeah. No, I don't expect there to be. I think my biggest fear, and it's not like a thing of trying to win or trying to stick it to someone. >> Oh, wait a minute. I got a better idea. Go before the conservatorship. And what I want to do is prepay the next year of

his care and I want to reimburse you for all of your legal expenses.

And I think the money's gone.

>> Yeah, it will be. Okay, good.

>> All right. And Wendy, you were about to go there. I'll go there for you.

>> You don't There's no revenge. Let your sister go. >> Oh, I have. I totally I 100% have. I think I had a really hard time with the fact that there she's never been held accountable for for anything.

>> I've got a hard time with it. I'm kind of pissed right now.

>> You You haven't let it go though because you're projecting future whatifs and you're trying to solve them and be heartbroken and angry in the present.

>> That's true. It's true. You got me.

>> Just stop. Don't Don't You have enough challenges of today. For today.

>> Yeah. >> You and your husband have proven to each other that we can come together when life throws us chaos. Y'all done an amazing job. You have a great marriage. I'm so proud of you. >> And guess what? Parasites don't eat as well as carnivores.

>> They just don't.

>> She So, at the end of the day, she's still a miserable hack.

>> She didn't get what she was after. She was looking for something. She couldn't get there. >> No. And so it's like, you know, just being a thief is never it's never a rewarding profession, >> especially from your aging >> parents. She's got to she's got to live with that the rest of her life. Talk about a burden. >> Yeah. Let her carry that, not you.

>> She disappeared for the last two and a half years, but during the guardianship Yeah. And during the conservatorship process, um, she had to be served and she found out that there was equity in the home and immediately showed up. Of course she I know. You're saying that like you're surprised. >> You're doing You're doing all this again. >> You're saying that like you're surprised. >> Of course she did. >> She stole from your parents. Of course she's going to show up. >> She wanted to finish the theft.

>> Yeah. >> Oops. I left a brooch on the dad on the dresser. >> Yeah. >> Don't create stories in the future and let them keep you up at night in the present. >> Yeah. It's just You've been running this over in your head. You burned a whole lot more calories on this than she has.

>> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you've been through this. And what she did was horrible. She's a horrible human.

>> You're an amazing daughter. >> She's a horrible human being. And you did all the right stuff. So come out with her rewards, which is, you know, I did the right thing. I put my head on my pillow. But yeah, go prepay the nursing home with with the conservator's permission and put the rest in your pocket to recoup all of your time, your expenses, your legal fees. I'll guarantee you there's $80,000 there for sure.

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Mike and Lori are on the debt-free stage in the Ramsey Solutions lobby. What's up, guys? >> Hi, Dave. >> Good to see y'all again. And y'all were on the cruise with us. >> We were. >> We were. >> Wow. >> Well, welcome. Welcome. >> I'm glad you didn't wear your swimsuit on the the Jeffree stage.

>> You don't want to see that, John. >> I've already seen it. I'm all right now.

>> Everything's better now. >> Everything's better now. >> How much debt have you two paid off?

>> Uh $175,000.

>> Wow. >> How long did this take, Mike?

>> 29 months, Dave? >> Wow. And your range of income during that time? >> Range of income was 210,000 to 250,000.

>> Woo. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I am an accountant. I'm a actually client services representative for a MCO, a workers comp MCO company.

>> And I am a healthcare administrator and a nurse. >> Oh, awesome. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 175?

>> It was mostly our home.

>> Oh, look at the weird people. I'm >> telling you, >> houses paid off. I love it. What's the

house worth? >> About 600,000.

>> Very cool. And how much in your retirement nest eggs?

>> Over a million, Dave. Yeah, between us.

>> So, your baby steps millionaires, >> debtfree house and everything. How old are you, pups? >> We're >> Today is Mike's 60th birthday.

>> All right. Very cool. >> Kind of a milestone. >> And I'm 57. >> All right. And you got a net worth of a million and a half to$2 million. Way to go, y'all. Very proud of you. How's that feel? >> Amazing. >> It feels amazing, Dave. It really does.

like you say on the show and um it just takes something off your shoulders when it happens. Just amazing. >> Yeah. So, >> man, I'm so proud of you guys. That's so amazing. So, how did you run into the whole Ramsay thing 29 months ago?

>> I'll just tell you I I'll start um just started watching your Lori got me really hooked on your YouTube videos and we just started watching those. That was a big part of it. Um I'll just tell you this. She um she bought your um Total Money Makeover book about over 25 years ago and I think you're right.

It was kind of just on the coffee table for a long time. >> Yeah. It's good for the It's a good coaster. Yeah.

>> And then we're like we started reading and we're like this is unbelievable and just um I think the goals are so important.

So >> So you got you went in all all you took it off the coffee table and went full in when?

Well, we we when we took the FPU, so we kind of baby Ramsey a little bit.

>> Yeah. When was that? >> Probably during COVID because we couldn't travel anymore. >> Most of our five years you've been going, but the last 29 months was paying off the house, >> right? >> Okay. >> Pretty much. >> All right. Wow. Good for you guys. Fun, fun, fun, man. All right. Now that you've been through all of that and you're standing here, I mean, do you remember being 20some and thinking about being a millionaire someday? Oh, >> no. >> I do. I do remember that.

>> I remember it.

>> Yeah. Oh, it >> But I had no idea how much work it was going to be. >> Right. Right. >> And I had no idea how good it was going to feel. I had this this feeling like I was in my head. It was like hitting the lottery, >> but it's quite the opposite. It's much deeper, richer. It It's not as The money is not as important. It's what you become while you're getting it together.

>> Yes. >> True. >> And who you are as a couple and who you are as people and the way you see things, it's completely different.

No doubt about it, Dave. Yeah.

>> What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt and being a millionaire, almost two millionaire by the time you're 60? >> I just think the main reason is just it's just we just we almost acted as one, Dave. Like um like you talk about marriage, we always felt like we had a solid marriage ever over the years, but it just took it to a new level where we're just doing something that we have each have a goal for and then we just did it together. Don't you think, hun?

>> Yeah. And I think, you know, having a vision and finding a plan and when you

look at a plan, I mean, the Ramsay seven baby steps is the best plan to have. And I have to say one of the things I really I know Rachel gets a lot of hate mail for this is one thing I really had a hard time doing was combining bank accounts. And we did not do that until closer to the end of our debt freedom.

And it simplified our whole entire life.

So I just I I think keep saying that to people because I think we do need to hear it. >> So you were the one that was resistant.

Yeah. >> Is that what you're saying? >> Okay. Why?

>> You know, probably some rooted fear somewhere. Yeah. >> And >> well, Mike is a scary guy.

Don't smile. Not happy. Yeah, that's right.

>> You you you mentioned something that we've started saying more and more around here. There's solving for this

fear somewhere and there's always going to be more fear over the horizon. But you went in and did this and you started solving for peace and just the idea of getting multiple bank account statements every month reconciling. Just looking at each other and just reconciling one gives you 30 minutes back a week or an hour back a week and suddenly you start to do things together. I I just I love it, man.

>> What What's a tangible You're in your 60s. >> I like to say that almost. Sorry, that was that was pretty harsh, but she's not hurt. >> Yeah, she's not.

Um, >> imagine there's a couple who's in their 30s.

>> What would you tell them right now what the other side of this journey feels like?

>> Oh, I just think it's just you just got to focus. I mean, the big thing is just believe. You know, a lot of people out there, I think we've you talked about this on the show, they don't believe they can do it. And no matter what your debt is, you've seen it with Jade, with others, it can happen. And just focus.

get on the same page with your spouse and just go at it. And it's um it's so worth it, John. Like you said, it's just it's not an easy thing. Um but it was

it's a lot easier than being in debt.

Lori and I have gone on trips over the years prior to co and we'd budget a certain amount. Um we went to Italy, went to London, went to Hawaii and stuff and then we'd always use our credit cards over and above what we budgeted and that's just you can't do it. Just go over and then it's so rewarding once you do get that control. I think it's about doing the right thing biblically and just doing the right thing um as human beings.

>> It's so strange that discipline is satisfying. >> Oh my gosh, Dave. Exactly. >> That's a strange paradox.

>> And she's amazing. I just have to say this.

That's Lori. I I've had it same job. I love it. Like what I do. Um but she has just gone over and above to get new jobs. Um she also even did a side hustle. She got her nursing degree and she does a side hustle working at a um this um village actually senior village in Columbus. So she was a big part of this. A huge part of it.

>> Yeah. Well, the bigger the shovel, the faster you get out of the hole. That's a big deal. >> I don't know how I would feel if a nurse walked in and like, "Hey, this is my side hustle." >> That didn't sound good.

>> No, that's so that's incredible, guys.

I'm so proud of you. >> Thank you. >> Proud of you. Well, >> and hey, it's hard. Hard to change patterns in a marriage this far along.

And for you to say like, >> how long have you been married? >> 23 years. >> I'm I'm scared to do something as

seemingly simple as join a bank account.

We've been doing it this way for this long. This isn't working. I'm going to try this. That takes real courage and bravery. I'm proud of you, man. That's hard. It's hard to It's hard to stop the dance. It's been going on for 20some years. And you did it. That's amazing.

>> Thank you. Yeah. and you'll reap the benefits of it of being able. So now you're worth a couple million dollars.

You're 100% debtree house and everything. You're you're making a quart million dollars a year. What's the first big financial fun thing you're going to do? >> Well, we're going to take my mom to Spain next year on the river cruise. Is that awesome? >> Yeah. >> Why Spain?

>> We've always wanted to go. >> Oh, cuz she wanted to go. Okay. And how >> And she wants to go, too. >> I like Of course she wants to go. I bet she does. Yeah. >> And it's a cruise, too, Dave. So you guys got you got us kind of hooked up crazy. All right, that's good. >> John, I just have to say this. Um, we actually did the marriage class with you and Rachel and it was phenomenal. I mean, I just want to thank you. Well, you guys are so entertaining, too.

You're funny. >> Yeah, they're both they're like a couple comedians doing standup marriage standup routine. Yeah. >> Well, I'm glad you all came. >> Thank you. >> That's good. All right. Well, enjoy Spain. I'm very proud of you guys.

Excellent. Live like no one else. Now you can live and give. Take mom with you to no like no one else. I like it.

Reward it. That's good. So, $175,000

paid off in 29 months. House and everything in the process. Confirm and

become baby steps millionaires. Mike and

Lorie, Columbus, Ohio. Count it down.

Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

>> That's how you do it, ladies and gentlemen.

worth all the trouble. That's all I can say. >> And I'll say this, the biggest lesson I'm taking away from Mike and Lori is it's never too late. >> Amen. >> It's never too late. >> It's never too late to change the way you interacted your marriage. It's never too late to change how you interacted with your money. It's never too late.

Proud of you guys. Well done.

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Heat. Heat.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Romans 8:37. Yet amid all these things, we are more than conquerors and gain a surpassing victory

through him who loved us. Aa Mily said,

"Don't dodge difficulties. Meet them, greet them, beat them. All great men have been through the ringer and women

for that matter. That's true. Yeah. True, true, true. Pam is in Houston, Texas. Hey, Pam. How are you?

>> I'm just fine. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, we have a house that's paid off and we have a lot of equity in it.

>> Good. So my question is, you know, I

just see an opportunity to put more money into the stock market and I don't really see a lot of our money growing with all the equity that we have into it. So I want to get your thoughts on different scenarios, you know, sell the house, you know, because we're in, you know, we're 65 and 63.

>> What's wrong with the house?

>> Oh, nothing's wrong with it. It's just um we're think selling it, renting, and taking that money and then, you know, stocking it away in the stock market. >> So, what what's the house worth?

>> Um we're about a million.

>> And what's the how much do you have in your nest egg currently invested in 401ks and so forth?

>> We've got several seven figures. So,

>> several mill several million.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Like more than three.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So the answer to the question is

this is a hypothetical because your life

is okay. >> Yes. Yeah. But I I hate seeing money set idle. >> It's not sitting idle. The house is going up in value.

>> Well, I mean that's that is true.

>> It's going up in value almost as fast as the market is. >> Well, I would hope to think so, but >> No, I mean the actual data says that. It's not a hope.

>> Oh, well, that's good to hear because >> I buy real estate as an investment because it goes up in value.

>> Yeah. And that that is true. We've we've bought several properties and some that we've made money and some we've just kind of broken even with. But, you know, I just I just felt I just thought that, you know, by freeing up some of this money, we could just buy more stuff in

the stock market that we would like and just see if that would >> if that's a good investment. And and if we rented anything, it would just be what I'm paying right now and property tax, mud tax, you know, HOAs and insurance. I wouldn't want to go over that particular number. So, >> I'm sorry. If you rented >> I got confused. I thought you mean you're selling the house in this scenario. >> Yes. If I wanted to sell the house and then be a something.

>> Yes. At our age, we have the flexibility to not worry about the house. Then I could take all that money and then just sock it away in the stock market and then make my kids' lives easier if something should happen to us. >> Your kids are okay. Your kids gonna be fine. Um the um and if they're not, it's

their problem. The um >> Wow. Um can I want to ask this question?

And you um Pam, you and Dave are in a different stage of life than me financially and age-wise and otherwise.

I keep asking myself, if I got to be your age, >> Uhhuh. >> and I had that kind of resources, I'm living in a paid for million- dollar house. >> Yeah.

>> Why wouldn't you look to have fun?

Oh, we do have fun. We We do have fun. I mean, we just got back from a, you know, three-week trip in Europe. And >> so, is the house a burden in some way?

>> Um, it's a it's a lot of work.

>> It sounds like you want to move and you're looking for permission to move.

>> I guess so. We We do a lot of the yard work ourselves. It's just, you know, that's who we are. We're hard workers.

And so, we >> So, just move. >> So, stop it. Yeah. Pay somebody.

>> I don't do I don't do yard work.

Not cuz I'm a snot. I can just afford not to do it. >> You say you enjoy it, but >> you say you enjoy it, but you want to sell it and start renting.

>> Well, it just frees up, you know, I don't have to worry about the house. >> You're trying to make the fact that you don't like this house anymore into some kind of wise, sophisticated financial move, and it's not. >> Just sell the house and move. >> That's the answer to the question. If you want to move, that's okay. If you want to move into a uh a a you know, if

you want to sell out sell the house and buy a condominium for half of the price and all the work is done for you because you want to travel and see the world and you're you're tired of the upkeep and those kinds of things, that's a different motivation than Dave, I think it's wise to borrow or to sell my house and put all the money in the market and be a renter for the next 35 years. That is not wise.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Mathematically, that's not wise because what you have to have your largest line item in your monthly living expenses is housing.

>> And when you do not own the house, your largest line item called rent goes up every single year >> and you destabilize the situation. Now, not enough to cause you guys to be broke. You got enough money, you're going to be okay. >> But it's it's a destabilizer rather than a financial mathematical blessing to do what you're talking about. And the data also tells us this that the typical millionaire in the first $5 million of

net worth has mainly investments in

401ks in a paid $44 million house.

>> Yeah, >> that's the typical millionaire. None of the millionaires, precisely zero of the 10,000 that we interviewed said, "I became a millionaire by borrowing on my home and investing it into the stock market." That's not what you're proposing. But you are proposing to go

to to go backward in the line of uh financial evolution and become a renter instead of an owner.

>> I gota >> and that destabilizes the situation.

Now, can you afford to do that? Yes, if

that's what you want to do and you'll still be okay with the numbers you gave me. But is that but we're not going to blame it on the fact that it is a financially sophisticated move. It is not. Or if you want to, instead of paying rent, take a quarter of that and hire a full-time yard keeper, >> butler, maid, cook, whatever you want.

>> Yeah. And and you >> turn this thing into Downtown Abbey and ring a little bell. >> And it's okay for y'all to do that. To say, "Hey, we're 60 now. We don't want to do yard work anymore. We're going to go for walks instead. We're going to have long coffees in the morning." Like, you're here. You made it. You're here.

>> And that's okay. Or if you want to sell, like Dave said, if you want to sell a house and and buy an 800 square foot house, do that. But don't say it's don't try to like come up with some like matrix algorithm. Just say this is what we want to do cuz >> no, it's not it's not wiser to be a

renter and have the money invested in the stock market than it is to be an owner of your personal residence.

Mathematically, it is not wiser. That's the answer to your overall question.

>> And can I say one more thing? >> Yep.

your kids are going to get millions of dollars when you pass. They're fine.

Now, you're um there's a level of I'm

trying to think of the right word. Codependency. I need to make sure their future problems that they haven't even experienced yet are going to be okay so that I can be okay now. >> Yeah. And so, so I cut my own grass.

>> So, right. Don't put that on your kids.

>> I cut my own grass so that you have an inheritance. >> They're going to get a million dollars each. They're going to be fine. Y'all go on about your life. And if they're not, >> they're still gonna be >> It ain't the million dollars fault.

>> They've learned how to work hard for me. >> Plus or minus a yard fee, >> right? Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Your kids are good. Y'all are good.

>> Yeah. >> So, I cut I cut grass as my

high school thing. Had 27 yards to cut when I was 12 years old. I cut so much grass by the time I was 19. God said I never had to do it again.

>> No, he didn't. >> So, he did. It was a personal appointment I had with him. said. He spoke audibly to me. No, I'm kidding.

But um I've not picked up a weed eater or a lawn mower again. I mean, I mow my

grass. I mow my grass when Sharon and I got married for like one year >> and after that I just I'm done. I'm done with mowing grass. And you know, but

guess what? I can make more >> during the time that I would be, you know, and I and calling myself a hard worker >> riding a zeroturn mower around and around in circles like all the old men on my street. And I could do that, but no, I can make more in that two hours than that guy costs. And and he's got a good job and I got a good job and everybody's happy and I don't have poison ivy.

You know, life's good. You know, it's just um the there's some things that you what uh Arthur Brooks talked about this the other day. He you know, I had him on Entre Leadership and you had him on your show, too.

One of the things that money does is it buys back your time. >> It it's it's the to me that's the single greatest thing money does is it buy gives you it buys you time. >> Buys you time. >> It's a time machine.

>> It does buy you some comfort creature comfort things, but it buys your time back. And so if I don't have to do this thing over here, then I can do something else, right? >> And that's what money does for you. It will buy your time.

And that's the beauty of having been as incredible as Pam and her husband. We're picking at her. But um I mean, God mighty, they got four3 million.

Do what they want. Well done. Very well done, y'all. Pretty stinking cool. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 49. Dumb Financial Decisions Stunt Your Financial Growth | October 15, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `MwyEqFKh9QQ` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwyEqFKh9QQ) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:34 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George

Kamel, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my co-host

is my co-host today. Josh is with us in Alabama. Hey Josh, how are you?

Hey Dave, doing well. How about yourself? Better than I deserve, sir.

What's up? Thanks for taking my call. Yes, so we're just curious about to get married here in about a month and start a family shortly after.

However, my fiance just got into CRNA

school to be a certified registered nurse anesthetist, and we'd be taking on about $200,000 in student loan debt. So,

I'm just curious if you would think that would be a smart commitment for for us to make as we're starting family here in the near future.

You you do know who you called, right?

Yes, sir. That's why I'm calling you. I mean, what what do you what I mean, what do you expect us to say?

We've never told anyone to go in debt in our lives, much less $200,000 1 month after you get married.

Yes, sir. >> my breath away.

I I understand. My The only bright side coming out of that is, you know, right now she in her regular nurse job probably makes close to $70,000 a year, where coming out of that, she would make close to about $200,000 a year.

Yeah, but you made a you made an incorrect assumption there.

What is that, sir? That 100% of the people that start this graduate.

Understood. The other incorrect assumption there she is selected in terms of income potential is huge. Um,

uh medical degree. It was not a nurse anesthetist. It was a different one, and she had $250,000 in debt, and her first

child had special needs and demanded that she go home and take care of her child.

Yep. You know what she is? You know what that couple is? That couple screwed.

Because life doesn't turn out exactly like your little plan.

Ever. So, now you got grouchy Dave. Sorry.

Let's Let's play it out, Josh. You told me you're on the cusp of getting married. You want to start a family. You want to have, you know, this adult life.

Here's how this would play out. You guys have a baby. She looks into that baby's eyes and says, "I want to stay home." And you go, "Honey, we're $200,000 in debt. We were banking on you making 200 grand to get out of this hole." And now it's an emotional decision to go, "Do I want to stay home, which is what I feel called to, or do I need to go do this job to get rid of the debt?" And so, that's what we're trying to help you see is that potential future of pain.

Right. And that's that's kind of where I'm at, and I've kind of had those conversations. I guess this is something that she's dreamed of doing and wanted to do, and it's W- W- W- Wait wait wait wait wait. If we have two dreams that are in conflict, it's called a nightmare.

Yes, sir.

And one of the dreams is that I want to I want to have I want to start a family.

Now, do do nurse anesthetists work full-time and have a family? Yes, they do. That is a possibility. Okay? And so,

it is a possibility that she goes and she graduates perfectly, and she makes two, three, even four hundred thousand dollars a year, which is a It is a great career field that she has selected in terms of income potential is huge. Um,

but the assumption that you take on when you just act like this is an autopilot thing is you leave out all the other variables in your life, and that's just unwise. So, I can't tell you I've never told anyone in the history of this show to go into debt uh for for student loans ever in any circumstances. If I was going to, it'd probably be something like that field.

Uh cuz I actually like her field better than I do an MD in terms of income potential uh versus what she's going to spend. It's a pretty incredible field that she's signing up for. But, that's not I But, what I tell someone I love to do what you're asking me? No, and I love you guys. I don't want you to do this.

Uh I want you to find another way for her to go do that school at some point.

Find another way for it to get paid for.

Uh find another way to make sure that this is what she wants to do versus stay home with her new child that might have

needs. So, I would wait until you guys have the baby, and she might decide to keep working, and you guys have saved up a bunch of money by then. You're in a good spot financially. Maybe then we pursue it. I I I think the concept of going and getting this degree is a very wise decision. How you're going about it and the timing of when you're going about it is very unwise and selfish and strange and immature.

And you're going to screw this up.

Please don't do it.

Hope I wasn't unclear. I understood it.

We'll just start with the caffeine, okay? We'll just start right off the bat with the caffeine. I mean, gosh, man, it's just it's We have the

burden and the privilege of having sat in these seats now for decades, you, me,

and the other personalities hearing when all of this crap, best-laid plans of mice and men, go sideways.

When you think that all of your positive assumptions are how things are going to turn out, and they just don't turn out that way. I actually wouldn't be here doing this if they turn out the way they're supposed to. I would be a multi-bazillionaire in real estate.

But, in turn But, it turns out that even though I was making money in real estate, even though I'd never lost money on a deal, even though I wasn't a dime late or a day late on a single note, a banker looked down when the bank got sold to another bank and looked at our paperwork and said, "Oh, there's a 26-year-old child boy that owes us a million two.

Let's limit this relationship." And they looked down and pulled a obscure paragraph out of the paperwork and called my notes.

Does that mean you had to pay them in like That started two and a half years of me losing everything I owned.

With our water getting cut off, our electricity getting cut off, and our marriage almost ending.

With a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread, we got the opportunity to start over because things don't turn out like you plan. Mhm.

And so, and I was good at it, too. And I'm smart. I didn't do dumb stuff. The only dumb thing is I signed up for a big old pile of debt thinking it was always going to work out. And the borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time.

So, not a real popular thing to talk about 1 month before you get married.

You get to be the dream killer for your fiance. What kind of man are you anyway? But, you know, I don't know. >> ask how to how to start your marriage off on the right foot, I'd go, "Well, let's be aligned, and let's try to avoid being $200,000 in debt." If we can avoid all that, I think we're in a decent spot.

So, I don't think it's going to set you guys up for success in your marriage while you also want to get a house and want to upgrade the cars and live your life, go on vacation while being saddled with all of this debt. And we don't even know if they had other debt. There could have been a a pile already sitting there to deal with. So, it stresses me out going into marriage like that.

And if you're not aligned on money going

into a marriage, you have a problem.

Cuz you're not aligned on the one the number one cause of people splitting up.

Hello. You know, the other three are you're not aligned on religion, how to raise kids and whether to have them, and how to deal with the freaking in-laws.

And if you're not aligned on that, those four things, you're going to struggle severely in the first decade of your marriage, and it likely will end in divorce. But, if you're aligned, and you're like, "Yeah, let's do it. Let's go." then have at it. But, I mean, Josh, you you just walked in the bear's den, and you knew it. So, I'm I'm confused why you called.

Cuz you knew what you were getting into here. But, anyway, man, find another way to live your life

more wisely.

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Jacob is in Tennessee. Hi Jacob, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you guys doing today?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

So, I just had a quick question.

Um so, me and my girlfriend met online.

I I grew up in Michigan, she lived in Tennessee. And when we had initially started dating, you know, I told her I'm not just going to cave and move to Tennessee. I don't want you to just cave and go to Michigan. We'll kind of try each state out and, you know, make a decision from there. And she mentioned that her family has about um 40 acres of land in Tennessee.

And, you know, I like Tennessee. It's not my favorite place in the world, but, you know, it's not a bad spot. And she mentioned that her mom gives everybody, you know, an acre of land when it when the relationship starts to get serious.

And, you know, we've been dating just under 2 years now.

The problem is recently, you know, her mom has been interjecting herself in our relationship, you know, trying to make decisions for us, you know, kind of going behind my back and essentially kind of trying to convince my girlfriend not necessarily to dump me, but questioning every decision I make.

And, you know, it's kind of gotten to the point where, you know, she's butting in our finances and she's kind of weaponizing that and saying, "Hey, I'm not going to give you this acre of land. I don't, you know, I don't like the way you do this or the way you do that." And when me and my girlfriend talked about it recently, I just kind of said, you know, ultimately if that's how it's going to be, I don't know if we want it.

Like, I don't like, you know, starting such a major decision, especially when we're building a house or buying a house somewhere under an ultimatum, given how How how old are you?

So, I'm about 25 years old. I just turned 25. And my girlfriend >> you do for a living?

I'm a DevOps engineer. And how much do you make?

I make about six figures and my girlfriend makes about 60 grand a year.

So, um what have you done that made this lady dislike you or think that you're not good for her daughter?

So, when I moved here initially, so I work from home, right? And that's the only reason I was able to move freely.

The problem is where we live in Tennessee, our local tech store is about an hour away. So, her big thing is I buy stuff on

Amazon a lot, you know, like it'll be a cable for my computer, it'll be things for my desk, or even a lot of stuff >> Wait wait wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Very few women would keep their daughter from marrying a young man that they like dearly because he buys stuff on Amazon.

I asked what you did that caused this woman to think that you're not good enough for her daughter. And buying stuff on Amazon is not the answer, dude.

Really, what's the real answer?

In her mind, she sees the purchases and thinks that I make irresponsible financial decisions. I mean, I'm not I'm not even making that part up. In her mind, she sees the purchases, you know, I told her I make good money. I've told her, you know, I I balance finances.

And I told her, you know, since me and my girlfriend have started dating, we've been planning for this house and just for the build and we've been kind of making sure our credit looks good so we can get a mortgage or a construction loan. I mean, Planning to build on her land? The land that she's going to give them, the 1 acre that she's going to >> Yeah. Okay, so well, there's a couple things here.

So, your plan your plan that you've been doing sucks.

Okay? So, you need a new plan. It's like, I'm going to make you my wife and then we're going to talk about building a house, not we're going to talk about building a house and then I'll make you my wife. Now, that isn't what you've been saying.

You've been saying the words coming out of your mouth were shack up, shack up, shack up, shack up, shack up. >> meddling with our finances.

>> And she's meddling You don't we don't have an our finances. There's not one cuz you're not married. There's a your finances and her finances.

Well, yes. I I understand what you're saying, but the end goal like when we envisioned the house, obviously we were talking about marriage. We've already kind of envisioned that, you know, we've had that conversation that, you know, end of next year, that was kind of my goal was to propose and after we, you

know, If you are going to get married and then build a house, it's real simple. >> Yeah. It's real simple. Just build it somewhere else.

1 acre of land in the area you're talking about in the middle of nowhere Tennessee is not that big of a deal.

Whoop-de-doop-ty.

Same thank you for the gift, but we'll pass.

We think We think We think we're going to be better able to love you from a distance.

That's true love. I mean, you know, I I I understand that. That That's where my head's at, you know, and that's >> Listen, either this lady has identified a character

or are so or oh or are so lacking in

self-awareness that you know is there and she thinks you need to be run off because you're not good for her daughter or this lady's a nut job.

Okay? >> No, I mean, I'm serious.

>> packages on your on your front porch are not enough reason to run off the boyfriend, potential fiance, son-in-law.

That's not enough reason.

Yeah. It's just not. So, if that if if that is truly it, Jacob, and I really have trouble believing that there's actually a human out there that stupid, but there might be.

If there and you're you're proclaiming that. So, I but I having walked through the marriage process with three children who have now been married for over 10 years and before they got to those winners, we ran off a few losers. Uh I might have been accused of being your mother-in-law at some point. But it wasn't because Amazon packages.

It was because of character flaw.

Or because of, you know, well, I mean, lack of work ethic. That's a character flaw, right? Dishonesty, that's a character flaw, right? Yeah, these are These are people you don't want to marry and don't want your kids marrying. So, if you're not something that is If you are a young gentleman,

a knight of honor that is worthy of the fair maiden's hand, then this woman's a nut job.

And you do not want to be living in her backyard on money on on a acre she gave you. There is no circumstance in which that's going to turn out well.

Ever. So, you have to declare this to be one way or the other. We have to figure out what is really going on with this woman and solve for quality relationship or we

have to distance ourself.

And it doesn't sound to me like you guys need to be in a backyard.

And you're the boyfriend. And so, >> And you don't need to be doing any of this cuz you It's between the mom and the daughter. If there's boundary issues, that's up to the daughter to decide. Yeah. So, I would have her do that. If she's not If she's not defending you and she's just letting you, you know, roll over and take it, this relationship's not going to pan out. Dave just talked about how being misaligned with in-laws is a big reason

that marriages don't succeed. And so, we're already seeing a red a huge red flag here. I 100% recommend parents interfere in their grown children's lives if there is a loser involved and run them off. I 100% recommend that.

Because you love them and you have more wisdom than they do and you're not all hot and bothered about them. So, you're actually seeing them clearly.

And so, I 100% recommend that.

But if they're are If they're functional and this is a good one, not a perfect one, but a good one, let's let's encourage the union done in proper order and then try to speak persuasion over the finances if there's something to be persuaded there. If that's If truly the only thing wrong with Jacob is he buys too much stuff on Amazon or more stuff than she's accustomed seeing on Amazon, that's a pretty simple thing to process through if someone involved has the relational IQ to do it.

But Guys, um Ja- Jacob, she is not violating the boundaries

of you guys of the couple's finances cuz

the couple doesn't have finances.

Her daughter has finances and you have finances. And so, if she says something about her daughter's finances, she's perfectly capable of doing that.

And her daughter, depending on her age and maturity level, is perfectly capable of setting a boundary with her own mother. And she obviously doesn't get a vote in your finances.

But it's when you start talking about this stuff as if you're married and you're not, that that my red flags go up and if I'm mom, I'm running you off.

Because you have a bunch of this crap out of order. And I think that might be what's going on here. But like, you know, Jacob wants to build a house on my land and not be married to my daughter. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to go along with that, mom says. We need mom to call in. We got to hear her side of the story here. Yeah, so that could be what it is, Jacob, but it could be that she's just nuttier than a fruitcake and you don't need a fruitcake near you.

And so, you just get away from the fruitcake. Just a little distance, little distance. It's a principle I live by. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, you know, it's like it takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to live. Yeah, she watches the front door.

She knows what's coming. How does she know he's buying all this stuff on Amazon? She's a little too close for comfort.

My mother-in-law doesn't know what's showing up at the house. That's all I'm saying.

I don't know what's you're up at your house either, George. So, it would scare me, probably. I would probably question you. It's a lot.

I would probably violate your boundaries. Just say, "George, what are you doing, man?"

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Jim is in New York. Hey Jim, how are you?

Good well, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh question for you. I have a 20-year-old son uh that feel he's done a a good job of getting him set up for success. Uh I decided not to go to the college route and went the skilled trade uh route. And the agreement we made was that if he wasn't going to school and he was going to be living at home that he had to put half of his uh net income into a savings account um until he wanted to move out and we wouldn't charge him any rent or anything.

Fast forward, he's now 20, going to be 21. Um he's at a point where he's got a

considerable amount of money in his savings account, about 60,000.

Um and I'm just wondering at what point do we start steering him to move out of the house? Should we move him towards ownership?

Um you know, how much should he be looking to put down out of that money that he's saved? Where should we be steering him next?

>> Wow, very cool. So, what trade did he go into?

He's a heavy machine mechanic. Very good. Very cool. Good. How old were you when you left home, Jim?

Uh I was 20. But I had no money and was

waiting on my paycheck to come and check and pay my first month's rent. Yeah, I had a dollar 12.

And I was out of there. Um

So, money's not the problem.

>> Joe Joe George, what Well, how old were you? >> You were 20. Oh, I think we have a consensus, Jim. Um That's my Is he wanting to leave or is he like, "No, I'm good. I got it good here." Uh no, I think he's good with either way. I mean, he's he's a good kid. Yeah, he's he's it's hard it's a hard decision because it there's nothing wrong here.

Yeah, it's not that I want him out. And not that he wants to be out. He's not trying to escape. So, that makes it a harder decision. So, uh just from a developmental standpoint, uh he'll become a man faster if he doesn't live in his mama's house.

Correct. Pretty simple. And so, I'm it's not I'm not in a rush. Doesn't have to be tomorrow. Doesn't have to be before Thanksgiving. I'm not doing that. I mean, it's not it's not that. There's a lot of grace around this. But let's begin to talk about the set a set a date certain that we all aim at.

Cuz his mom probably won't Honestly, my wife didn't want any of ours to leave.

They'd still be there.

And um but I'm just like, "No, you're leaving. And you can come back when you bring grandkids." And so, um and then only for a visit. But yeah, you're out of here. And so, because it's so good for him.

I mean, you just walk different when you buy your own milk.

You know? You just carry your shoulders a little different. When you did you know, when the underwear doesn't get washed unless you wash it. Hello. And so, it's just a different thing, man. And so, it's good. But I mean, so I would set a date that sometime no later than now 12 months from today that he's out. And no, I would not buy I would just get out and rent something for a little while. Uh get a couple roommates.

Yeah, and then just pile up some more cash. He's doing so good financially.

He's so responsible. He's a hard worker.

He's completed the He completed the loop on his training. He's making the money.

He's stacking the money. This is a good kid, man.

Way to go, Jim.

You did good. Well, thank I I did Should I be steering him to invest some of that money in anything long term? I mean, right now it's literally sitting in a low yield You know, what I would do is have him sit down with a SmartVestor Pro. Get get one of the SmartVestor Pros in the area and and and meet with them and you could go on the meeting and just say, "Hey, I'm going to go with you just so I can understand what he's telling you." And I want you to understand.

So, this meeting is a meeting to teach.

between now and the time he uses it to buy a house.

Okay. And and but I want him to begin to learn about it and begin to go into a guy like that's office and a gal like that's office and sit there and have that experience of meeting because I mean, if you've got a master's degree in finance, meeting with an investment

professional is intimidating.

If you are a machinist, it's super intimidating. And if you're 20, it's super duper intimidating.

So, it's really good to get it out of the way to figure out that these people are just people and that they're there to serve you, help you, teach you to hit your goals, and then you can begin to build a friendship, build a relationship, and begin to learn from begin the process of learning from them.

And that's all I would do. I don't think he needs to really invest any of it big time. There's no big deal here.

The secret sauce is him.

And he's got that down. >> And he's got plenty of time for compound growth to do his work. So, when he's ready to invest, he's going to go hard at it and become a multi multi-millionaire. So, right now he's really in kind of a baby step three B, where he's stacking up a down payment.

So, he doesn't need to be investing today, but it's good to start and get those principles down. And again, I would rent for sure. I would not go buy a house at 21. He doesn't need all of that right now.

Get him a couple roommates. If If rent's expensive in his area and he'd rather have some friends around, he's a social guy, you know, just get a few roommates. That's what I did until I was married and it made me more thankful for my wife. Once you're living with a woman versus a bunch of dudes, you're like, "Oh, this is so much better.

So much better. Just the hygiene level alone." Oh. George, you weren't there.

Someone had to do it.

So, yeah, that renting is not wasted

money when you are buying time.

Time to save up a down payment, time to get your life situated and set, time because we're not going to be in that city for that long and then that's not the case with this young man, probably.

But and so on. But that that's a great story, Jim. I love hearing that. And you know, did you I heard such maturity in the dad.

Oh, yeah. Holding the situation with an open hand. Not being controlling. >> What's a good idea?

I want to kick him out or I want him to stay and save money and I disagree with you guys. It was neither one. It was more like, "What's a good idea? What's good for my son?

>> think that you can check that on the bingo card for sure. Chelsea's in Pennsylvania. Hey Chelsea, what's up?

Hi Dave. Um we my husband and I are here

and we had a question for you.

Um we discovered you not too long ago

and we are in the middle of the baby steps.

Our question is we have a business and we took out a loan for $20,000 for the business, an LLC, and we have personal debt of about $16,000.

Um and we think we can get the personal debt down pretty quickly um doing the gazelle intensity that you said about.

But my question is once we pay off that personal debt, uh should we attack the business debt or can we start

investing? No, you need to you need to get rid of the business debt cuz it's not business debt. You signed for it personally.

Got you. Okay. >> You're personally liable. The bank does not think that's business debt. The bank thinks they loaned you money.

You only think it's business debt cuz you borrowed the money on your personal signature to use for business.

That's the only reason you think it's business debt. But it's legally not business debt.

Okay. So, we need to focus on getting that down as well. >> Oh, definitely. Definitely. Number one cause of small business failure.

Should Should we use like

How should we go about getting that business debt down because I know for the personal debt you know, we're going to go at it >> at the 16,000 like gazelle intense, you said. So, you've been listening with great intensity. You're going to shrink down your lifestyle, beef up your income, not go out to eat, not go on a vacation till you get the 16,000 paid off, right?

Right. >> Then do the 20.

Okay. You have $36,000 in consumer debt, kiddo.

Yeah. That's what you have. >> hoping it was I was hoping that it was considered somebody else's. No. Not somebody else's, but No, nobody else signed it. You're the one signed it. So.

Is the business successful? Is it making money? You guys paying yourselves?

It It It is now, yeah. That's why we used that took out that loan initially.

That's what we lived off of, $20,000 for the So, how much do you guys make? What do you make from the business? What do you take home?

Um this year we're set to take home 78,000. Good. Do you have jobs other than that?

No, and we started 2 and 1/2 years ago.

So, it's still pretty good. I think It's looking okay. It's looking okay.

You're at least profitable and you know, you can see a future that's positive.

That's good. Um but I mean it's not like

you won the Super Bowl or something. I mean you just now are getting to where you're making the money you would have been making if you had jobs.

Right. Exactly.

>> now that that's that's good, but now we need to go double it.

Cuz the purpose of running a business is make some more money. So, let's get after it. And uh in the process we'll get rid of this debt. So, and next time you want to expand or do anything with your business, pay cash for it or don't do it. That's a great rule. That'll keep you open. That'll keep you open. [Music]

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Logan is in Indiana. Hi Logan, how are you? Good, yourself? Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Uh I was wondering if I'm financially

doing what's correct in life. I have a little backstory to that. So, about 7 years ago, a little before that, but my mom gave me a car as my first car.

It had some mechanical issues. She offered to fix it and I was paying her back. Uh inevitably that car got destroyed.

But I saved up enough cash, I bought another car.

And then I blew the motor.

Took the money I had left from that

and my mom found a old college fund that she put together with like when I was born and she completely forgot about it. Took that money, bought another car.

Then I got into a head-on collision.

Took that money, bought another car.

Then blew the motor on that one. Then finally told myself, all right, let's go to a dealership. Let's go get a safe car

that way so it's under a warranty and everything. That one inevitably started me making problems that were not covered under warranty. Then so then the dealership was able to buy that car back, but then get me into a brand new car still with a little uh under money left over from the old one.

So, now I'm 46,000 in debt for that one.

But then at the time when I had the car that I I got in the head-on collision, me and my fiance at the time bought a house.

And

when we we separated 5 years later and I

had a family to go back to. He had no family to go back to. So, I left everything for the house for him and dropped my name off of the mortgage and everything. So, he took over that. How did you drop your name off of a mortgage?

Well, he refinanced and everything. So, it was only his name. >> So, you gave him the house and he refinanced the mortgage. All right, good. So, so you're clear of the house and you suck at buying cars. Okay. You ever tried riding a bicycle? This might be the solution to your problems, man.

So, I moved back home and since I moved back home and I got a better job, I have offered to uh pay back my mom for everything she's done for me. And uh with my new car, I'm letting her drive that and I took over her old car because where I work it utterly destroys your car and I don't want the brand new car to end up like my other cars.

So, is financially me taking care of my mom that way and all this correct the way I should have done my life or Well, I mean you you obviously don't think so. That's why you called.

Yeah. Because I mean the fruit of this is horrible.

How old are you?

27. Yeah.

And you're at home with a $46,000 car that you owe on that someone else drives. So, yeah. I mean decisions you've made have brought you here, so we can't call them good.

No. That's that's fair. I mean that's just an it's an observation. You've already owned that observation even in just the telling of the story to us.

So, Yes. um So, so uh No, um

With what you outlined, I'm not sure you owe your mother any money.

Um there was a couple times she gave you money, couple times she gave you your college fund, a couple times she helped you get a transmission and you you paid her back for that or a blown engine. You blew a lot of engines.

Um in this story. Um Do you do you like to oil changes and stuff?

Yeah, I do I do a lot of my own work.

But when it comes like to the >> a professional start doing it. Yeah, I mean based on the number of engines >> are. >> of engines have been blown. Um all right. So, how do we move forward from here with what we should have learned, okay?

Number one, we've got to get better at

um analyzing transportation

as being solid transportation and not overpaying for it, but also not buying crap. And so, don't ever buy another car but what you don't have a mechanic do an independent mechanic do the inspection before you buy the car. Period. Number two, don't let some dealer talk you into upgrading out of a lemon into a super expensive semi non-lemon

that's so expensive that your mother ends up driving it. So, this doesn't work. That car needs to be sold.

Do you know what it's worth?

Uh right now 38,000. Okay. Yeah, so you need to go borrow $8,000 from the credit union and sell this car.

And then get you a five or $10,000 car,

which scares you to death cuz you blow engines like anybody I've ever seen, but you need to go get a five or $10,000 car, pay cash for it. What do you make, by the way?

Uh so far, this will be my first year

that I'm fully at my job and it's just shy of 200,000.

Okay. Oh, that's great news.

Because you're single, uh right this second you don't have much overhead, and so you can get yourself squared around and go out and be an independent human being from your mother and get rid of this car and get a car that you pay cash for that is reliable, that a reliable mechanic gives you an analysis on before you buy it. And then if you want to >> Go ahead. I do have five other cars that I am using right now. Goodness gracious.

Do any of them have debt on them?

No, only only the one. Why do you have

five other cars?

Yes.

Where in this story did we miss that?

Are they functioning? >> I got. Yes, they're all functioning. Uh two are work vehicles that are at work and then

one is a uh daily driver

and another one is a race car.

Okay. So, um do you have any money saved, by the way?

I got 6,000 right now. Okay. Well, I couldn't tell. You got a lot of cars. >> Cuz I'm trying. All right, so what do you do for a living now?

Uh, I'm a slab hauler at the steel mill.

Okay, cool. Good for you.

The good news is you don't need to go to the credit union to borrow money cuz your next paycheck is going to cover the amount you're underwater on and probably going to sell this race car and maybe one other car to clean up this mess. And get out of your mother's basement, dude.

You know, go get an apartment, be like a guy. And have a have a a reasonable number of cars and a work truck, like one other car, like your daily driver and your work truck. And until you've got all of that, you're not making good financial decisions, no. Um, I would simplify your life.

I think I heard, let me see if I heard a trend, George. If see if I heard see if I can pull the thread here, okay?

Almost all of his financial problems

revolve around cars.

Too many, different kinds, too expensive, blowing engines.

The only one that he'd pulled off smart was he got his uh his roommate to take his boyfriend to take over his loan. And that was a smart move.

That was a smooth move to get out of that mess. But the car he never did a single car transaction that was that smart. Ooh.

So, yeah, cars are killing you. So, if the word car shows up anywhere in your brain, run.

Away. Run away. Anything that has a car has a motor in it or wheels on it is a curse to you, sir. Because every interaction you've had with vehicles has been negative.

Now, most people have negative interactions cuz they do break and they do go down in value and people do get upside down in them and they do pay too much, but not like you, man. You you made it into a science.

And so, you've got to run when you hear the word car because everything that bad that has happened to your money just about everything bad in the whole story you told us was revolving around cars.

Could have been avoided if you just rode that bicycle.

Just like I said.

Okay, be careful. That also has wheels.

Yeah. That's true. We can't worry about the >> or a motor gives this guy trouble. But no engine on that bicycle. Oh, man, I'm sorry you're going through this, but you can clean it up. That's the good news. You have a great income. >> news is, Logan, you can back out of some of these bad decisions and be a free man very soon. Like by Christmas, your life has changed if you do this. Yeah. Yeah.

And you'll just be almost lots less cars. Lots less cars.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour and number one best-selling author is my co-host. Catherine is with

us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Catherine.

How are you?

Hi, Dave. Hi, George. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, I'll just cut to the chase. Um,

I basically I got served with divorce papers 2 weeks ago.

Um, I'm kind of in a tailspin, but

most importantly, um, just really

concerned on how do I like move forward?

Um, my husband and I previously did go through a debt-free journey um, to the point where we paid our house off and everything. Um, we recently sold that house back in April and bought what I thought was our forever home.

And so, now I just kind of feel the weight of like being now like stuck in another mortgage again and we have two kids and just like what do I now do for retirement? I I just have a lot of questions, basically.

I'm sorry.

It sounds like you didn't see this coming.

Um, I didn't. I mean, did I know that we were you know, perfect? Absolutely not.

Um, however, I am just never thought this was something that would happen. Mhm. Okay.

Well, the hard part about what you're going through is uh a friend of mine that does divorce recovery counseling says that a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

And I can hear in your voice

that your heart is broken. And um, when

my heart is broken, I don't function as well.

Mhm. And yet you are going to have to

and real clear business decisions with math.

Not with emotion. Okay? Yeah. And so, words like forever house are no longer part of the vocabulary. Instead, it's just a house

that has a mortgage and is a problem.

Mhm. So, what's going to be what's going to happen to the house in this divorce?

Um, and you're debt-free except for that.

Yes, sir. Good. And how much money do we have in 401ks and so on?

Um, I don't know. He handled most of it.

I do know what I have in my like 403b at my job. It's like roughly 85,000, but we had like a

separate Roth IRA, um, Mhm. actually I think two

separate Roths, um, And and who's handling those? Were those with a a SmartVestor Pro?

If I'm being honest, Dave, I don't know.

Like I said, he he kind of cuz I don't really understand the stock market and all that stuff and so I was like, "Okay, you got it." And I kind of let him handle that part. I I do think he did reach out to someone, but I'm not like 100% certain. Okay.

Have you talked to an attorney yet?

Um, no. I was In the 2 months before, I was

really just like trying to do everything I could to fight for our marriage and um, I So, the serving was not a surprise.

Okay. Well, the serving wasn't necessarily a surprise, but in terms of like cuz everything happened so quickly. From the moment he served me the papers, I was >> he living?

He he still lives here at the house.

Well, that's weird. You guys have I >> guys have kids? Yeah, two.

How old are they? >> Yeah, I have a I have a 4-year-old son and 13-month-old daughter. She's currently 1 month old. All right, here's what here's what you have to do in this situation.

Knowledge is power.

And when you're in trauma in a traumatic or dramatic situation, facts are your

friends. And so, you will as you gather more and more facts about what this is going to look like 3 years from now, it's going to help you um, process the emotion. The emotion is quadrupled.

The broken heart and the you know, when you start talking about your babies, you start crying. That's normal.

That that's made that's four times worse because you have no idea how this is going to turn out cuz you don't know anything about the money.

And so, the you need to meet with a lawyer tomorrow and start learning in the state of Texas

what the wife is going to get.

And you're going to be pleasantly surprised that it's a lot.

But does it matter that like I've been the breadwinner the majority of the time? Yes. >> I've never How long have you been married?

Um, 7 years. It'll be 8 years in March. But And um, and so, well, I don't know in the state of Texas what your alimony laws are going to be. It's possible that if you made a lot more than he did, you might be due for alimony to him.

But you need to know these facts. I don't know them and you get that from an attorney. Mhm. And and then you uh grab Mr. I served you with papers and go, "Okay, where is the information on all of our accounts? I need it for my attorney."

And he needs to tell you where the accounts are and what the account numbers are and print off the pages and hand them to you.

And if he doesn't, say, "My attorney is going to make you do this if you don't do it."

Okay? Because you need to gather up the facts. I don't know if you're sitting on a million dollars.

I don't know if you're sitting on a $50,000.

How much equity is in this house when you sell it cuz you're not going to be able to keep it.

Yeah. Um, I mean, when we sold our house, it'd be paid off completely. Um, we put a large chunk of that down on this house. >> much money are we talking about?

So, we put 250,000 down there and then

the mortgage that I have is 400,000.

Yeah. Okay. So, you're going to sell the house and put $250,000 on the table, of

which you will get at least half.

Okay. To start your new life with.

And what does he make a year? Do you have any idea?

Yeah, probably about mhm, 60

>> Okay. to 70,000. >> He's going to be paying child support out of that.

In 100% of the states, 100% of the time.

Okay? If they're his kids, Yeah. Okay. And so, it's pretty simple.

So, these types of facts, then you go, "Okay." You You can start to project into the future what your new life looks like, and that is a very cold and calculated, non-dramatic, non-emotional thing, but it helps you then to stay in the moment in a highly emotional situation.

Cuz if you're not highly emotional where you're sitting right now, you'd be weird.

Yeah. Okay. So, you have permission to cry. You have You have permission to rage. You have permission to, when your children's names come up, for your uh stomach to go in your throat because of what this means to them.

And you have permission to make decisions very rapidly for Mr. I'm going to serve you papers to move out.

Like now.

Okay. We either is or we isn't.

We isn't playing house when there's divorce papers on the table. And so, get your attorney's involvement in all of that. And honey, you need an attorney by the end of Friday afternoon.

If you don't have one, this is now on you.

This is how you've got to deal with it.

And I'm not picking a fight. You didn't pick the fight. The fight came to your door.

Literally, it They knocked on the front door and gave you papers. I mean, it really did come to your door. And so, yeah, you've going to have to deal with this. And facts are your friends. You're going to feel a lot less out of control and chaotic the more you understand and know about your what how this is likely going to shake out.

[Music]

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[Music]

Ray is with us in Miami. Hey Ray, what's

up?

Hey, thank you very much for taking my call. Um I'm having kind of like a midlife crisis purchase. I'm interested in buying a new Bronco, and so, I needed to get some advice.

Would it be more wise to pay it off in cash, or should I finance it and invest

that 50K into the market to try to make a profit?

I have met zero millionaires that became millionaires borrowing money on a car and investing it.

So, no, I would pay cash for it or wouldn't do it.

Okay. Because it's going to go down in value like a rock.

The new Broncos are very cool, too, by the way. The I particularly like the new Raptor Broncos. They're sharp.

Yes. So, how much money do you have saved?

Uh currently, I have about 120,000 saved. What's your net worth?

My net worth is about 700,000. Okay.

We teach folks not to buy a brand new car until they've got a net worth of at least a million because new cars lose so much value. So, I'd buy a 1-year-old or a slightly used, you know, 10,000 mile or something. Same year model. Anyway, let someone else take the butt-kicking on the depreciation of the first year, um and pay cash for it.

And if you're going to do that, that's the only way I would buy the car. And um it Like I said, it's cool car. I don't have a problem with that. Uh and it should also be less than 50 per All of your vehicles added together. Anything with wheels and motors should be less than 50% of your annual income.

Otherwise, you have too much invested in things going down in value. But I'm guessing that you probably make over 100, and I'm guessing you have the cash to be able to do this. You told us you did. And um so, if you buy a um like a 1-year-old or a 10 10,000 mile or 5,000 mile one, um you you probably are going to save 10 or 15,000 bucks, for real.

And it'll drop 10% when you drive it off the lot. So, just look for one that's barely used, and you'll get a discount. >> Yeah, cuz guys, I mean, new cars are the worst thing we buy in terms of loss in value.

Or in some cases, $20,000.

Blump blump. Yeah. Just each one of those blump blumps, right there. I mean, that's It's a lot of money. And you can afford to do that if you've got a million dollars, and you're paying cash for it and all that, that's fine. I've done it. I don't I'm not mad about it, but you know, you can't do You can't go buy a In his case, he's buying a $50,000 car, he said.

Um and you can't do that if you're making $50,000 a year and then figure out, "Well, I don't know why I can't get ahead." It's cuz you've got all your money invested thing in things that are going down in value. And then you regret it, but you can't sell it cuz now you're 10,000 underwater on it, and now you got a new problem on your hands. Exactly.

So, Ray, I think you're in a position to buy that car. Uh and I I I think I would advise buying the car cuz it's something you want, and you've worked real hard to get there. Um but I'm going to pay cash, and I'm going to buy a slightly used unless I have a net worth of a million dollars. That would be the only adjustments to the advice. Tyler is in Salt Lake City. Hi Tyler, what's up?

Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Hey. So, my my wife and I, we

accidentally fell into some untaxed freelance work. My my wife, she she's a nanny. Um she was doing it just as a side gig to make some extra money, and the family that she was working for uh asked her to work full-time. So, she's been working for them almost full-time, just kind of under the table, paid through Venmo. Um hasn't paid any taxes

on it, and I kind of fell into the same situation. There was a startup car detailing business. It was, you know, a couple weekends here and there, and and now it's, you know, you know, 50-hour weeks. And we've finally been able to get ahead. We're working on paying off our credit cards and everything like that. But the issue is is that, you know, even though we're getting ahead on our debt, we're not paying any taxes. And it's I I'm scared

of the repercussions of what that might entail. And I don't I like I want to get

out of it. I I don't know if I want to leave my job and just find something that pays taxes, or >> a big deal. All you got to do is just start paying your taxes.

It's not a big deal. >> we've been thinking everything every dollar we make into paying off our debt and and fixing >> you're not because you've not been paying your taxes. And that's You're You're You're right. You should be scared about that. You need to be paying your taxes, and with what's left over after you pay taxes, then you work your household budget and pay off your debts.

But and uh I mean, everything we we've been trying to pay off the credit cards. Our cars have a bunch of deferred maintenance that we've just been trying to get caught up on. >> you're going to talk me into telling you to not pay taxes?

No, no, not at all. >> Okay, then quit arguing with me.

Okay, you got to pay taxes, man.

>> So, starting today, 30 cents of every dollar goes into a savings account to pay for taxes, and you can log on to the IRS website and do your quarterly estimated payments to get ahead of it instead of hoping at the end of the year that you did it. >> Yeah, if you do your quarterly estimated payments of profit on your businesses, so, on if you're running a detailing business, open Make sure you have a separate checking account for your business. Put all of your income and her income, for that matter, into that business account.

And then remove any deductible business expenses, cost of doing business, a real

business expense. Like if you buy a pressure washer, or you buy soap, or you buy whatever, those are deductible items in your profit and loss statement. Then what's left in that account after you've done your expenses is profit. When you get ready to bring some of that profit home, we recommend setting aside 25 to 30% of that for your

quarterly tax estimates. Your estimated quarterly is what they're called. Okay? And so, just So, if you're going to bring $10,000 out of that account, set aside 2,500 in a separate account just to pay

your quarterly taxes. And then once a quarter, you're supposed to fill out this very simple little form, which is your income minus your expenses equals your profit. That will then be calculated and create your tax bill for that quarter, and you'll have the money for the tax bill because you will have set aside 25 to 30% of the money as you

pull it out of the business account to bring it home. Is that all logical?

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so we're going to reduce the cash that you have to work your goals.

Your goals are getting out out debt, deferred maintenance on the vehicles, and those kinds of things, but we're also going to keep you out of jail.

Which is preferable.

Yeah, very very much. Yeah. So, I'd get in touch with a tax pro to help you guys with this too. Your life got complicated and it's time to seek the help of a pro.

So, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro and get in touch with the one that we trust to help you walk through this and do it the right way. Let me give you clarity on that cuz I don't want to just leave drama out there hanging in the air, okay? The clarity is it is not illegal in the United States to not pay your taxes. It is a criminal act to not file your

tax return.

Okay? >> Okay. That's where you're breaking down.

So, you file the tax return. Oh, and you're going to pay your taxes because the penalties and the interest are ridiculous if you don't pay them on time. I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I you know, it's going to be a struggle to pay the taxes in general cuz we haven't been setting money aside, but I know if I don't pay them, it's just going to get upside down in a situation that I'll never be able to catch up on.

>> Exactly.

And we we don't need that. You know, it's it's going to reverse all the good that you've done with the cash.

And so, and then some. So, yeah,

plus it's emotionally hanging over your head. Cuz you know in the back of your head this is this is the monster in the closet. One of these days it's going to kick the door down.

And you just don't want that. So, let's get out in front of this, get it all squared around, and then with what's left, we'll start working our working our our system again. And but that's that's definitely the way to go.

And so, you can't use the excuse of

I've got more important things to do with the money because you don't.

Um, the IRS when they come after you, they have uh, virtually unlimited power uh, in terms of for instance, if you don't pay your MasterCard and they sue you and they want to garnish your check, they have to go to court and execute on the judgment and get the judge's permission to garnish your check. If the IRS wants to garnish your check, they don't sue you.

They just garnish your check.

And you go you go to get your check at work one day and they go, "Surprise!

There's nothing there." And yeah, it's going to yeah, it's not fun. So, you don't want to be on the other side of the KGB, I mean the IRS.

And sidebar, wife and the family she's working for being a nanny, she's an employee. She needs to be W-2. They need to do this legally, by the books, and they need to pay their share of taxes, she pays her share, no more under the table stuff. That's not it could be 1099

if she is a running a nanny service.

Yeah, but she's full-time. >> if she's a singular one employee, if she

only has one person she nanny's for, then she's W-2, you're right, George.

So, that that family's getting off scot-free cuz they're not paying the matching portion that they're supposed to be paying.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys, I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly it. >> two options.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family, term life insurance.

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Katie is in Wisconsin. Hi, Katie, how are you?

I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Well, um, my husband has a bit of a spending problem and he's gone through our personal savings, which was our um, emergency fund.

And I'm afraid he's going to start in on our money that we have saved for a down payment on a home.

And I wondered how I could protect that.

>> he have an out-of-control spending problem? What's he addicted to?

Just whatever he sees on the internet that he decides he has to have and he doesn't stop until he gets it. So, in other words, >> he's a child.

Uh, that's a good way to put it.

Yeah. How long has he been this way?

Um, as far as I can tell, it's his whole adult life. >> How long have you been married?

2 years.

Okay. And how old is he?

34. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, um, it sounds like you guys are going to enter marriage counseling or your marriage is going to end.

I have tried to make an appointment with a marriage counselor and I'm not sure.

I just wanted to protect it in the meantime so that it's not gone. I worked very hard for that down payment and

um, And he didn't. He stick. No, I

brought it into the marriage. Oh.

Okay. Yeah. Well, the only thing you could do on a temporary basis is just take it out of that account and go open another account in another bank and put it in your name only.

Yeah, I'm thinking about putting a cashier's check. No, no, you just open an account in another bank.

Doesn't have his name on it. He can't get to it.

Okay. And of course, he won't know where it is either unless you tell him.

Right. And I will bring this money back into the marriage once I determine that we have a marriage.

Right. And currently, we don't.

Cuz currently, you are trying to destroy our lives.

It's very disheartening. It is, yeah, it's heartbreaking. Yeah. It's it's awful. What's his response when you bring all this up?

Um, just to get angry at me and continue the argument, go down rabbit trails until we're both just like walking away like we didn't get anywhere.

Yeah. This is not going to end well if you guys don't get some help, okay?

No. If you get some help, it can end well. It can it can be worked through.

But you guys don't have the tools to navigate this, nor does he have the desire right now.

Okay. So, basically, he's misbehaving and when you bring it up, he starts gaslighting.

And you end up the you end up the problem rather than the solution.

Yeah, I'm an disobedient wife because I >> Oh, there we go. I love that one. Let's go Christianize our stupidity. Yeah.

That's just that's that's that's wonderful.

Yeah, what he is what he is is a horrible husband.

That's what he is. So, if we're going to go disobedient wife, we're going to start calling names, we can go there, but I don't think name-calling's going to help this.

I think the only thing you've got is you need to move the money into your name and you need to see a marriage counselor and hopefully, you can start getting some tools on how to deal with him to get him to the marriage counselor and the two of you can spend some time um, uh, learning how to navigate this together and and stay together. And I sure hope that's what works. I sure hope that's what happens.

Now, can he claim that I stole the money if I do that?

It's your money. You brought it into the marriage. And I didn't steal it, I moved it. I'm not hiding it from the judge and

I'm not hiding it from the attorney, I'm hiding it from the guy who's out of control. And you're not even spending it. And by the way, it's not it's your it's the couple's money, but the judge will determine if you having brought it into the marriage makes it subject to be split in a divorce. So, a little tough to steal something that's yours.

Okay.

Okay, that's what I was worried about. So, You guys have debt?

Uh, no, except for orthodontist payment.

Okay, I would freeze your credit cuz my fear is this guy starts taking out debt and your name's attached to it.

Okay, how do you freeze your credit?

Jump on the credit bureau sites.

Um, uh, and uh, they they they each have there's three of them, they each have a place to uh, do a freeze. And I would do them directly on the sites, I would not do them through some kind of a service. Like go onto Experian's website, TransUnion's website. >> TRW, that's the three. Okay. Yeah, Experian, TransUnion, TRW. Just jump on their site and do a freeze. Takes about 10 minutes. And um, it keeps anyone from borrowing money in your name if they check their

credit bureau report.

If they don't check it, then you've got a different kind of identity theft, but I'm not putting identity theft past this guy at this stage. >> Once he runs out of savings, >> is you can you can undo every bit of this and have a combined transparent, healthy, clear, wonderful

marriage once you get some healing in the situation.

Okay? Okay. So, let's pretend that you called us up and you said, "Hey, my husband has spent $15,000 on cocaine

in the past 4 months." All right? Mhm. The advice we would give you is exactly the same advice we just gave you.

Okay. That makes sense. That he has to have some help for his problem. Your marriage is in jeopardy, so you have to have some help for your marriage, and in the meantime, you have to protect yourself from someone who's misbehaving financially.

Okay? Okay. And yeah, that's what you've got to do here. And again, I'm not doing this to pre- pick a fight with him.

That's not the point. On the contrary, I'm trying to make all kinds of suggestions that present a situation where healing can occur.

But if he persists on this, and this is the only way he's willing to live his life, and anytime you question his spending everything you make and then some, he yells you're a disobedient wife, if that's if that's the only position this guy has, you're not going to be married in 2 years.

It it you'll be done.

Uh cuz sane people don't stay in situations like that.

Um and you know, it's just that that's just cray-cray. And you don't stay there. So, Chase is in South Carolina. Hey, Chase, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so, I am 21. Uh I'm in baby step two

and I have a mortgage. Have a wife, a son, and another son due in 2 weeks.

Yay! Um yeah. Uh I know we want to move

uh in the future, uh obviously after baby step three and four are, you know, ordered. Um and uh some of my family is recommending that whenever we do move, that we keep our current home, which will carry a mortgage, and rent it while having a mortgage on our new home down the road. Um and I know Well, that's sweet, but they're broke, and we don't take financial advice from broke people.

Right, yeah. >> Even if they're in our family, especially if they're in our family.

Right, yeah.

Um No, that's a bad idea, Chase.

It's a bad idea.

So, and I'm right on board with you, and I've argued the same thing to You don't have to argue. It's your house.

Yes, sir. Is it in your name?

>> Yes. Oh, absolutely. You and your wife own the house, right?

Well, yeah, it's just my name is on the on the deed. Yes, sir. >> whoever this is, your mom or your dad or her mom or her dad, just tell them, "Thank you for your input. We've decided to go a different direction." I guess I'd just like to prove them wrong in the name of >> You can't.

The way you prove them wrong is you go become very wealthy doing the right things, and then they look over and go, "Well, I guess Chase was right after all." Right. Yes, sir.

Outside of risk, is there cuz obviously you say people that do these things don't calculate for risk? Yeah, exactly.

>> of risk, what are what are the what are the kind of calculations and numbers I can expect to be like, okay, that doesn't make sense? You're still trying to convince someone else.

You're already convinced.

All I've got to convince you to do is be a man and make your own decisions, and just smile and say, "I've decided to do otherwise." It's risk. It's exactly what it is. And you don't need to take on that risk. You're 21, you got a marriage and two little babies. Besides that, it doesn't even matter today. We're not even talking about this today. This is all theory over Thanksgiving dinner. Arguing with broke people over in the family over Thanksgiving dinner about what you might do 5 years from now.

Bullcrap. Just sell the house when you get ready to sell it. It's got your house. Let them be upset. And they're not You don't get a vote.

You You can be upset about not having a vote. I mean, sorry. I mean, George drives a car I don't agree with, but I still like George.

>> friends. We're still friends. >> He's working today. I don't get a vote on what car he drives. I can just abuse him about it.

[Music]

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Ariel in Califor- California.

My husband and I live in a joint family home with our two kids, my father-in-law, mother-in-law, and sister-in-law. The house we live in is in both my husband's and his father's name. My father-in-law gambles and plays lottery on a regular basis. He's 58 with no savings. He works at a gas station and makes 60,000 annually. He has 50,000

in credit card debt, $20,000 on a car.

We owe around 50,000 on the house. My husband wants to pay off his father's credit card debt so we don't have to worry about losing the house to pay his father's debts when he passes. My husband and I are debt-free other than the house. Would this be a wise thing to do?

I haven't seen a wise thing in this whole story yet.

This is a nightmare.

Oh my goodness. Oh, Ariel, you guys are not going to do what you are going to have to do, but you're going to tell you're forced to do what you should do, which is not have been in this in the first place.

And the only way out of it, of course, is to sell the house and everybody take their money and go to their corner.

But as long as you're attached at the hip to people who are misbehaving with money, you're going to be affected by them.

And that's what you guys signed up for in this ridiculous situation. The old woman in the shoe here.

And it's just kids are everywhere.

People are everywhere.

Sisters and brothers are everywhere.

This is a nightmare.

And so, well, I'm sorry. Now, question for you, Dave. If if the father dies, the father-in-law, the credit card debt is unsecured debt, but he's his name's on the mortgage. Would they come after His name's on the not the mortgage. The mortgage doesn't matter. His name's on the deed. Yeah. That's what matters.

>> So, could they come after them for the >> Sure. credit card debt? No, not the individual people, but they can put a lien on the house. That's what will happen. >> Absolutely. Cuz when you die, what you own, the father-in-law in this case, he owns part of the house, stands good for what you owe, his credit card debt due to his gambling habit.

And by the way, this is not going to get better cuz this guy's not going to change.

So, if you pay off his credit card debt, you know what he's going to do?

In a month, he's going to have some credit card debt. >> He gets a clean slate and goes back into debt. >> Sure. Yeah. And there's nothing you can do to stop him.

So, you you know, no, your husband's wrong. Paying off the debt does not help. Uh you guys ought to at a minimum, you need to get the mortgage paid off and then build as much wealth as you can possibly build, and make sure that there is a will involved that upon uh either of them's death,

uh you guys get the house.

And you then there's some provision for the remaining spouse, the father-in-law or the mother-in-law.

Um And then sister-in-law got thrown in there somewhere. Well, sister-in-law's not not one of the owners there. Yeah, she's just living there. Yeah, she's just hanging out.

So, but at some point, this has to be cleared up, and uh but no, you don't pay off his debt cuz he's going to run it back up.

So, what would I actually, if I loved all of you, the parents and you, what would I tell you to do? The best thing for you for 10 years from today, how does this turn out the best? Put the house on the market and sell it and go to your corner.

Everyone gets their own place. Everybody gets their own place, gets their own money and you go figure it out. Well, you don't understand. Prices in California make people do stupid things.

Yes, I do understand.

But that doesn't mean, you know, there's no excuse for stupidity even in California.

So, um, you just still have to deal with what you got to deal with. Sorry. Well, then it's Well, Dave, you don't understand my culture. In my culture, we all live together and misbehave together. >> Stupid is not a culture.

This is stupid. This is a stupid transaction. It's set up for failure.

There's no way this turns out. This is going to go to ashes. There's no way this turns out. It's going to turn out bad for everyone involved.

No one's going to end up liking each other. No one's going to end up with a financial blessing from this. No one's going to come away going, "Oh, that's the smartest financial move I ever made." That will Those words are never going to be uttered over this deal.

It's not where it's going. And so, you know, that that's the problem. And so, there's no reason good enough to enter into something this stupid and that's harmful. I And And ignore all of the signs.

So, yeah, the only one to see And of course, your husband thinks nothing's wrong cuz he grew up with his dad.

And he thinks his dad's normal.

And yeah, he works at a gas station. He makes 60,000 bucks and he runs up $50,000 in credit card debt buying lottery tickets at the gas station where he works. >> a different job where he's not doesn't have access to lottery tickets so easily. Spending all of his paychecks there. Yeah, or maybe, I don't know, grow up and be a normal person instead of doing stupid stuff. But yeah, I mean, it's just Oh gosh, so harsh.

So harsh. It's not going to go well, Ariel, for you and your family because you're not going to deal with it. Your husband's not going to deal with it. He doesn't have the backbone to stand up to his parents to split this thing up and you guys are going to end up in the soup before this is over.

And then you're going to be calling in here with a great story that ain't a great story. Sarah's in Montana. Hi, Sarah, what's up?

Hey, guys.

Um, so my question is how do I reinvent

myself after losing my dream job? Um, a

little bit of background, I was a county prosecutor. I happened to fail the bar

and now I'm kind of feeling lost.

Well, you can take the bar more than once.

Yes. So, I don't know whether or not I

should reinvent myself in another area of law that is a higher paying job rather than Well, you got to pass the bar either way.

Yes.

Okay. So, I'm already scheduled to take it in February. >> Oh, good. Okay. >> don't know Yeah, I just don't know what to do. >> prosecutor your dream job when you could make eight times that doing something else in law?

Uh, my dad was a um, career long law enforcement officer.

I've also had some um,

things in my past that I've been a victim of abuse as well and so, I had

this dream of working with special victims. So, you saw it as a crusade, not a dream job.

Cuz financially, it's anything but a dream job. Agreed?

Agreed. >> It's a cru- It's a crusader's dream job, though. And that's cool. I like that.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, I just don't know whether or not I should take this time um, and reinvent myself in another area that will make more money. Um, just to pay down some of the debt from law school. How much debt have you got from law school?

Um, law school loans alone are about 110

and then I do have some other things on top of that. Total >> way you're using your language, you're single.

Uh, yes. Okay. How old are you?

28. Okay.

Well, Sarah, you're smart. Dumb people don't get to where you are.

Okay? You don't They don't complete law school. They don't land in a county prosecutor's position. They're not scheduled to take the bar for the second time. That You know, you you have

good thinking skills.

And so, you you know, all you're wanting us to confirm is what you already know and that is is that I don't think I I think you're over dramatizing it saying to reinvent yourself. I think there's a part of yourself that just becomes an excellent defense attorney and protects victims.

Right? Mhm. Or an excellent um,

prosecutor of some kind later on. Um, or whatever. You don't have to go into some obscure corner of the law that doesn't involve crusading. There's all kinds of ways you can crusade within the law. And county prosecutor's office just one place.

So, it's not reinventing yourself. It's just saying there's other options to apply my passion and my intellect where

I can make enough money to get this mess cleaned up and then I've got more options when I don't have the bills anymore. So, yeah, take 5 years and go go be somebody, make 200 grand and knock this crap out. And then if you want to uh, maybe maybe you know, uh, I don't know. There's a lot of different ways you could do what you're doing as you know.

Um, and and I I don't think it's inconsistent with who you are. I don't think it's reinventing yourself. I think it's just another version of your current self.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Michelle is in Colorado. Hi, Michelle, how are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, first of all, thank you so much for taking my call. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Um, the the short the short of my question is um, my husband and I are in $205,000 of

debt. Where do we start to get ourselves

out of this? What kind of debt?

So, we have significant student loan debt. We do have two car loans, medical How much is the student loan debt?

164,000.

Okay. And how much are the car debts?

Uh, the cars are just under 17. Each?

No, in total. Okay. What is What is car number one?

Car number one is mine. It's a Nissan

Rogue. >> What's owed on that?

I'm sorry. What is owed on the Rogue?

The balance right now is $12,196.65.

Perfect. And so, the other car has $5,000 on it.

Approximately, yes. Okay. And what other debt other than the 164, 12, and 5?

Uh, we have medical debt which is worth

tw- um, just over 20,000 and then credit

card debt which is 4,500. Okay. Perfect.

Good for you. And what's your household income?

Our household income right now is

$86,399.04

approximately. Mhm. And what do you guys do for a living?

Uh, we both work in corrections. I am a

criminal justice case manager and my husband works in juvenile corrections.

Okay. And your degrees in

criminal justice? My Uh, well, my degree is in psychology with a minor in criminal justice.

Okay. Did you get your master's?

I did not. This is my bachelor's. Okay.

And what is all this debt from?

The The short answer is I used college

to go find myself and did not make smart

money choices when I was 19. Okay. So, you borrowed a lot of money for beer pong in addition to going to school. I got you. Okay. That happens. That happens. Lots of people do it. It's okay. And so, now you make $87,000 between the two of you and you got and the and you have a normal life except for the fact that you're deep in student loan debt. Wow.

Okay. >> Ish. Yeah, I mean, we So, Dave, to give

you a full picture, we are we're legally separated. We're working on reunification. We have an um, a 17-month-old daughter that we're trying to create a better life for and we just

we're in agreement that we need to tackle this. Our way Our ideas of tackling this are different.

What's What's his ideas?

Um, well, I I'll be honest, I don't quite know.

Anytime we try to have the financial conversation, I can't really get him to open up. He kind of shuts down. So, are you guys in marriage counseling trying to get back together?

We are meeting with our pastor, yes.

Okay, good. Very good.

Okay. Um,

Yeah, and so, it sounds

positive that that you're moving in a positive direction with your marriage, staying together. Does that Is that a fair statement?

Yes. >> Except for the separation part.

>> yes. Okay.

All right. So, when we come back together, part of our coming back together with the pastor's guidance, the counselor's guidance is to be in alignment on how we're going to tackle this cuz this is the uh hidden stress hanging over your household that's affecting your relationship.

And not having a plan that we're unified on how to deal with it is adding to the marriage trouble, if not causing the marriage trouble. Is that fair?

Absolutely. I mean, to the point that I So, I've been listening to you. I've known about you for a really long time. We are signed up for Financial Peace University with um a lady in our church.

>> Good. So, we're going to start that on Saturday. I just I'm not quite sure that he's fully on board and >> he didn't have to be. If he goes through the class, I'll get him. As long as he shows up. That's the important part. >> It's hard to go through that class. If you go to every single class, it's hard to go through that class. We're very convincing. Yeah, he'll he'll be um he'll be on board. If he you know, and what that if

I'm talking to him, I'm saying, "Hey, you don't agree with all this stuff and you guys are not getting along, but if you want to save your marriage, you've got to be unified and go to the class to at least both of you to agree to tell Dave Ramsey to jump off a cliff or both of you to agree to go this Ramsey plan is proven, we're going to work it." One of the two, but let's get aligned together cuz you guys have got to be unified on how we're going to attack this.

And when we turn on the lights and go, "Okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this this this and this. We're going to work extra. We're going to live on nothing. We're going to be on a budget. Beans and rice rice and beans. Um you know, we're we're going to sell the Rogue. We're going to do whatever." I mean, I don't care. We're going to cut up the credit cards, right?

And we're going to you know, we're going to make a list of these debts and we're going to live on nothing. We're going to pay them off smallest to largest and we're both aligned on that. Ready, set, go. Break the huddle. Go.

And when you do that together

um that's going to impact other things you're arguing about positively.

In other words, I've had thousands of notes, letters, and

individual conversations with people that went through Financial Peace University and said it saved our marriage and I'm like, "Why? I don't understand. It's It's about mutual funds and money." They were cuz it forced us to work together and when you agree on your spending, you agree on your fears.

You agree on your spending, you agree on your goals. You agree on what you value.

You agree on your priorities. And you're agreeing on every part of your life when you agree on your spending. It forces you to discuss every one of those stinking things and get aligned on it.

And when you do that, it can take a situation like you're in and and be a part of not the whole thing, but be a part of a real complete healing. But as

a psychologist, you know that the complete healing is a spiritual thing as your pastor knows and it's it's a relational thing and it's learning some skills to deal with each other in a better way than you've been dealing before.

Money's But the money's part of that.

So, yeah, you guys go to that class together, girl. You got it. You could do this. Dave, if I can ask you one more question? >> Sure. Um part of all of this is I I am the one

who makes $34,000 a year. I've always

had super big dreams for my career.

After having my daughter, the goal is to be a stay-at-home mom. I'm not sure that's realistic considering our debt.

Not realistic for a while.

Yeah, I think >> You made that choice when you signed up for 164 grand.

Yeah, and I have a feeling I know what you're going to say to my question. What are your thoughts on me pursuing my law degree?

I don't know where that came from other than criminal justice.

But um I would have thought you were going to say master's degree so you could open a practice and make $150,000 a year as a marriage counselor as a psychologist. That would make more sense than a law degree from where you started. But We've got a math problem here and on both sides >> to you can't get to any of that until But you can make more with your degree than you're making now. You just chose to work for the state.

But there's other things you can do today to make more and work your way through this. Then you got to decide, "Why are you If I want to be a stay-at-home mom, why do I want to have a law degree?" It's to so inconsistent.

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[Applause]

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Top questions people have about wills out there. How do I know if I need a trust or if my state is too complicated for an online will? Well, if your estate is north of a million dollars, you got to start talking about whether or not you need a an attorney to do the will.

Um but most people die without a will and that's silly because they didn't spend just a few dollars and get a quick online will. You need to do that immediately if you're an adult.

Uh what do I need to start my will online? Well, same stuff you do for any will. You need to figure out who you want to get your stuff, who you want to take care of your minor children, uh who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated, the health care power of attorney and so on. Um and uh why would I want an online will

versus a traditional one made by the lawyer? Uh ease and expense.

Um it's you know, online will's 50 to 75

bucks, 100 bucks, something like that.

You're going to spend four 500 bucks pretty easily with a lawyer and it's overkill if you don't have a bunch of stuff. And and and you got to go meet with a lawyer. You got to go through all this stuff. Online, you can just jump on and knock it out in a few minutes. One evening, you can have your will done.

And you need a will that is state specific to you, the state you currently live in.

If you did a will and you're living in Indiana, but now you're living in Texas, your will is not valid anymore.

Hello. Yeah, cuz the law is different from state to state on what witnesses are required, what notary public is required, what um

uh you know, what what you're allowed to do inside the will. The law changes from state to state.

And um pretty dramatically sometimes.

And so, you definitely have an update to your will. If something major has changed in your life, the number of times we have had the call here at Church where someone got divorced and did not change the beneficiary on their life insurance policy. That's a bad one. There's nothing you can do.

It's going to the ex. >> Going to It's going to who the beneficiary states. So, you got to get those things changed. >> it's hers now.

I forgot to change my will. So, my ex-wife, who I hate with a passion, got all my stuff. That was kind of Yeah, it was kind of lacking in diligence. Hello.

Yeah, yeah. So, you got to do this. You got to take care of business, right? Mary is in Arizona.

Hi, Mary.

Hi. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I love that. So, I'm calling because my

question is you're probably going to laugh at me or yell at me. It's kind of embarrassing. But how do I

use what I can from welfare, I'm currently on welfare, to get off welfare and um

get get in a better financial situation.

Um I might be going homeless pretty soon. Um and uh my situation just kind of sucks.

Mhm. I'm not going to laugh at you or yell at you. I'm I'm really thrilled that you called. Thank you.

Um >> Okay.

How old are you? So, um oldish uh Well, what's old? >> 40 40 um five. Well, I'm 65, so I don't know what that makes me, but okay.

Well, okay. So, basically um You're a baby. You're a baby child. Okay. Now, all right. Now, the uh all right. So, what have you been doing for work?

Um so, recently um because of my health um

I've and my aging mother's health, I'm

basically taking care of her. Um I'm her caregiver. She pays me.

Um and she doesn't have a lot. My income is only $300 a month. And that's it. I'm

currently on >> are you going to be homeless?

Um so, they currently um

the welfare I'm on is only housing. I'm not on food stamps anymore, praise God.

Um so, that's the only welfare I'm on is the housing. Um because of the big beautiful bill, they're kicking people off um and where I am, it's ran by the

city. So, the city has already informed

people um that 2026 is right around the

corner. >> They don't randomly take people off.

There was some kind of a qualification you didn't meet.

Right, because I'm not um disabled the way the disabled All right.

And so, you're you take care of your mom, but you don't live with your mom.

Correct. >> Why?

Um current Um okay. So, I don't live with my mother because she's staying with my sister. She lives with my sister, um, and my sister works,

um, and so I just I'm her care her

caregiver. And then when me between me and my sister, when my sister gets off work, um, I go home.

>> mom's sharing some of the social security check cuz she didn't have anything either, right?

Correct. She is So, what she does >> She pays me back back to your original question then. The core

answer to your overall problem

is income.

Right. Work. And I know get get get, um,

uh, What what You said you have been unable to work because of your health. What's wrong with you?

So, I am, um, I am disabled, but not

the disability doesn't qualify me to get

disability. What kind of disability do you have? What are you facing?

Uh, a lot of, uh, female problems that

keeps me from working and then also, um,

sugar issues.

Uh, and do we could deal with the sugar issues, um, you just have to get the right kind of employer.

I think you just told me you're obese, did you? No. You're not. Okay. No. Okay. Good.

All right. So, um, well, I don't, uh, with and I don't know how to probe deeper on that and I wouldn't probably wouldn't understand what I heard anyway cuz I'm not knowledgeable in that area. But the answer to your question is to find some

methodology to create an income.

Even given the limitations that you've got medically.

Right. Right. >> And if you're hiring, uh-huh, if you want to hire me, I'll take a job if you're willing to train me. Yeah.

That that's the that obviously not I mean the the point is we've got to you've got to figure out and we've got to help you figure out a way to create an income and that begins to solve your problem. And then, no kidding, Dave, but the bigger the income we can you can create, the faster these problems go away and the further they are in the rearview mirror.

Is that agreed? Correct. Yeah. >> So, this has been an ability to work, an

inability to work because of medical and other things that then your spirit got

kicked around and you start to feel like there's no hope, which makes you not

have any energy to move towards getting those jobs.

Well, correct. And then once I, um, once

I start getting an uh, a better income,

um, I'm going to get kicked off my housing.

>> You're already getting kicked off your housing. Yeah. So, we've got to go get a better The goal is to get enough income to cover your own house. And by the way, you you called to ask how I could get out of this housing.

Correct. Anyway. So, the the the good.

We got you kicked out of housing cuz you start making too much money. Means you're moving in the right direction. Great. Does your mom not qualify for Medicaid to get a caregiver?

Cuz either you need to be paid a living wage as a caregiver with some kind of self-directed attendant care or you need to find someone who takes over so that you can go to work. But this is not working out to make 300 bucks a month. You can't make 300 bucks a month and live. Correct. Correct. And so the only the only Well, what keeps me going is >> the way, she can't get help for 300 bucks a month anywhere else either.

Right. So, she doesn't have money, um, to do it the other way. So, I'm doing >> has She's going to have to you you know, you guys are going to have to help her get care while you go get a life. Right.

She is on, um, Medicaid and I did try

and go that route, but she they had told

us that she doesn't qualify. Yeah. Um, she would have to be more Well, your sister and you can work on that as a side issue, but the bottom line, George is right. You cannot spend 40 hours a week there making $300 a month and expect to have a life. That mathematically doesn't work, Mary.

Right. So, I did watch your baby steps and, um, They don't matter until you create an income. You can't do the baby steps on $2 an hour. That's literally what you're making right now.

Yeah. So, you've got to go create income. You have to go create income.

You have to go create income. That's the thing. So, you hang on. We will send you a couple of books to help you move in that direction, finding the work I'm wired to do and the, uh, proximity

principle. Both of those will help you.

That is what solves this whole thing.

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Stacy is in Tennessee. Hi, Stacy. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are y'all doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Good. I'm fairly new, um, to following you all and I have about $3,000 in student loans with about $5,200 in

savings and I also have a wedding on the way. All right. When you getting married?

Um, this time next year. Cool. Cool.

What do you make a year? Yes.

I make $43,000, uh, gross. Okay. And you're having to pay for the wedding?

Yes, as of right now, we don't know if family will chip in, but we're hoping that they will. Okay. And so your fiance will chip in some and you'll chip in some.

Yes, he's currently out of work due to an injury, um, but as soon as he does as

he's able to work again, then yes, that is the case. Okay. Cool. Good. Good.

Good. All right.

How much is this wedding going to cost?

Uh, hopefully no more than $10,000. Um,

we're not really trying to have something huge and extravagant.

>> So, you're debt-free today. You can use that savings, knock out the student loans, build up an emergency fund and save up 10 grand by by 12 months from now, right?

Um, yes, I guess that that's my question if I should go ahead and and take care of the loans and just work towards building up or saving towards the wedding. Yeah, I mean, I want you to see your way to paying for the wedding cuz 10 grand's not unreasonable with what you're describing. Okay. Okay. >> And so, you said the student loan balance is 3,500, right?

Uh, 3,000. >> A 3,000. Okay. All right. So, if we say 10,000 for the wedding, 3,000 for the student loan, you need $13,000.

You have Yes. $5,200.

Yes. >> Okay. So, our real need is $8,000.

Okay. See what I'm doing?

5 + 8 >> Yes, I see that. 13. We got the wedding and we got the thing. And on top of that on top of that, George wants you to have an emergency fund and I do, too.

Uh, because stuff's going to happen like the car's going to break and all that kind of crap, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, we

need 13,000 in savings for those two things. We have 5,000, so we need eight.

And so $1,000 a month for eight months gets us there and we have 12 months, so then we would have a little bit to spare.

So, we need a goal we need a goal to be debt-free and have the wedding paid for and have some extra money of saving at least $1,000 a month, which is really tough on 43,000.

Yes, it is. >> Okay. And so, but also Bubba's going to have to get back to work. When's he back to work?

Um, the doctor said that he should be cleared by the end of this month. Good.

Good. >> What was he making? Yes.

Uh, he was making a little bit less, about 42,000. Okay.

So, you got 40, he's got 40, that's 80 to work with. And so if you put in 500 a month, he puts in 500 a month, you guys will be there, right?

Yes, and that's with taking care of the student loans now. Yep. I'd rather check take care of the student loans now. And but I'm doing that knowing that we also

get to do the wedding.

Because because we're both Yeah, cuz we're both going to save 500 bucks a month, $1,000 a month total and that gets us to $12,000 12 months from now.

Um, and that on top of the 5,000 that you Oh, wait a minute. Now you don't Now you got 2,000. So, now we're up to 14,000, but we only need 10 for the wedding, so that gives us four in the account when we get home from the honeymoon. That's peaceful. Breathe that in. Yes, you just gave me so much peace by that. You don't even know. That's exactly how it works. But now but now here's the trick, okay?

I you you can't go, "Oh, we we decide No, you didn't decide. You decided to save. Oh, we needed to No, you didn't.

You decided Not Don't tell me any excuses.

And get up there and go, "I put my wedding on a credit card cuz I didn't save my 500 bucks." Okay? Yeah. So, I

give you a game plan. Now you got to execute, kiddo. All right? And by the

way, are you stuck making 43,000? Could you take on an extra side hustle and told you >> could, too.

I'm actually working on, um, I'm doing DoorDash and I'm working on working doing the driving service for Walmart, uh, trying to do in between cuz I do ministry work. Um, so I have to travel quite a bit for ministry. Um, but the in between when I am in town, I'm working on doing those two. Good. Is the ministry a paid position or a volunteer

position?

It It is paid. I'm at the headquarters for the nonprofit, which is the ministry. Okay. >> That's your 43 grand.

Yes, that's correct. >> Oh, that's your job. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. >> Yes. Yes. Okay. And then in addition to that, you're doing DoorDash. Okay.

Yes, in addition. Yeah, that I cannot do DoorDash full time. >> Okay. Cool. Cool. And what's your fiance do for a living?

Um he works in the pharmacy industry right now, but he's working on actually going towards IT.

Good. Good. So, hey, that These are good answers because you've got you've got a trajectory that's going to cause you to guys to make more, save more, be able to

give more, be able to be more comfortable in the ministry role because you're going to be under control with your money flow, okay?

Yes. Yes. Thank you so much.

>> Thank you. Hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of a book called The Total Money Makeover as our wedding gift in advance of this paid for $10,000

wedding. She had just spoke that over you. You heard that, right? All right.

Adam's in Texas. What's up, Adam?

Hey Dave, how you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, so I am 30 years old, have a wife

and one beautiful daughter.

I've been in the insurance industry for just under 10 years now. I'm property and casualty, and I've built my book of business up from $0 to just over

$640,000 in that time. The company I work at is

now bringing in equity partners, which is changing the structure of our business pretty dramatically. In this buyout, I'm losing ownership of my book of business, but in exchange, I'm being paid two times its value, which equates to just under $1.3 million. Um My

question today is should I pay off our mortgage and any remaining debt and invest and save the rest of it? Um or should I keep the mortgage and use that money for additional investments? Okay.

What happens to your career when all this happens?

Um career as far as I'm planning is going to stay the same. My commission structure is changing to something that's a bit more industry standard. So, you know, I'll I'll take a a small hit to what I'm taking home right now cuz I'm going from a 1099 to a W-2.

Um but, you know, that that's a small adjustment in the in the wake of things.

But you no longer have equity position because you're being bought out. That's correct. >> So, any growth any growth that occurs from this point forward, you get none of it.

I'll still get you know, the extra commission. >> you get commission, but you don't get to build a book of business again.

Correct. Will you miss that?

Yeah, absolutely.

That That's still a bit shocking to deal with.

But, you know, it's kind of the Are you under a non-compete? >> I'm trying to ride the wave and be great. Yes, I will be. For how long?

We haven't received final terms. I believe it's going to be between three to five years depending on the person.

That would be normal. Yeah. Okay. Yes.

Yeah. All right.

Um Cuz a lot of people that I mean, it sounds like this was forced upon you.

The language you're using doesn't sound like you sought this out. So, the answer to your question is yes, I would pay off your mortgage and yes, I pay off all my debt. >> Okay. Because I don't find people that say, "Oh, I became a millionaire by borrowing on my house to invest." Right. That's not what I find. The millionaires that we talked to go, "I got out of debt." And so, what do you owe on your home?

Currently, we owe 391,000.

>> Perfect. What other debt do you have?

Just a car. Okay. So, 450 clears you out

of 1.3, right?

Yes. >> Okay. And then what I would do is bucket a You're an analytical, careful, wise,

frugal person. I would bucket a number that is uncomfortable to you, but very comfortable to your wife to spend on fun.

Okay. Like go on the ridiculous trip or

buy her a much better car cuz her car sucks or whatever, right? I don't care what it is, but find something that comes under the heading of fun or some things. >> on your brow when you hear the number. >> Yeah, some things. >> So, spend, save, give. Those are the only three things you can do with money, and I would do all three with the money that's left over once you pay off the debt. Congratulations. Fun problem to have.

Overnight millionaire just like that from all his hard work.

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Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 12:9.

My grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness.

Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me.

Simon Sinek said, "The goal is not to be perfect by the end. The goal is to be better today." Chris is with us in Florida. Hi Chris, how are you?

Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call. I have an investment question.

Um for the past five years, I've been building one spec house a year.

And I've taken my profits over the past five years and built myself a a nice house. I was able to buy the house next to me for cash. Um

Everything out of pocket, everything's paid for, got myself out of debt. Good.

And I've got However, the house I bought, I I was out of money and it needed remodeling. So, I I took out a loan on that house to get it remodeled.

Oh, so you're not out of >> rented as rent.

Right. Now I'm back into debt.

However, I'm I'm clearing 1,100 a month off of that house.

But all of my money has been spent, and I want to continue building spec houses.

Now, my personal house is paid off.

My question is should I take a loan out on my personal house to continue my spec houses?

Okay. Um Is this what you do for a living?

No, I do this on the side. I do this on the weekends and after work at night.

I got you. And what what price range your homes are you building?

They're selling for 250.

Okay. >> Cost me around 120 to build. Okay. And

what's your household income?

Personally, I'm at 100,000 without my spec houses. You add that in, I'm around 200,000.

My job, I make about 100. >> And why do you have no money all of a sudden? Cuz you put it in these two houses. >> keep reinvesting and it gets locked up in the houses. You're You're not making 200,000. >> Yes. Because you're not making You're doing one spec a house a year.

And >> I'm making 100,000 a year off of spec house.

Okay. Um I just felt like there should be more profits sitting around versus you being broke. Well, then what's what's the rental house worth? Well, Okay. Rental house is I'm guessing it's going to appraise for 250 to 300. Mhm.

Um my personal house will probably appraise from 350 to 4. Mhm.

So, I've only been doing this for five years. I'm 56, and I came out of a divorce at 50. Yeah.

I came out of that with my truck, my dog, and $100,000. Okay. That's when I started doing this. Okay.

But it it sounds like you know, now here's the thing. You understand, okay?

And you know this.

I think you've experienced it. Um that

when you have a spec house, meaning you're speculating, you're have an inventory item that has no debt on it, you interact with a potential buyer completely different than if you're paying construction loan payments on that house.

Mhm. You You don't have to put up with a crazy buyer.

Right. You can and you don't have to discount it because I'm stuck in it and the bank wants me to get the note cleared.

Exactly. You can just sit there and wait until I get the right buyer. And that's how you maximized your profits because you've not put everything at risk, and now you're getting ready to flip your model on its head and start taking on a bunch of risk, and it's going to change the way you interact in this. It's going to take a lot of joy out of it.

And so, no, I would not go this route. I

do think I grew up in the real estate and the building business, and I've owned real estate and done rehabs and built stuff my whole life.

And I do think I'm talking to a guy who actually knows how to do it. Most people that say they know how to do it, as you know, are full of crap.

But I think I'm actually talking to a guy that knows how to do this. I think you really know how to do it.

And so, that's going to change That's going to change my advice a little bit.

Okay. Okay. I would sell my rental if I were you, and I would build three spec houses.

You know, I agree with you business wise, but here's my problem.

Personal feelings come into play. This house is right next to mine.

I don't care. >> about who's going to buy it and what kind of neighbors I'm going to have. >> Well, you get to decide You get to decide that.

Sir? You get to decide that. You can't discriminate on sale based on race, creed, color, national origin, but you can discriminate based on based on jerk.

[Laughter] I'm serious. You can decide that. I just sold a house next door to me.

And I refuse and I you know, we had people looking at it and I'm like, "Nah, I don't think so." And we've got the sweetest young couple over there right now and we're they're going to be best friends. We're going to love We love them.

And you can just decide that. So, no, I I I don't think I'm trading that one issue for all of your peace. I think you can do two spec houses a year minimum and make 200,000 while you make 100,000 at work

with cash and be able to maximize your profits because you don't get in a bank pinch.

Yeah. I am talking to a guy who's never been in a bank pinch. If you have been, it's been a long time and you've forgotten how it feels.

Oh, I've been in a bank pinch, yeah. I hate those sons of a gun.

With a passion.

And I don't want to put you back at their mercy.

Yeah, I agree. I'm I'm out of it now.

>> Yeah. Why go back in the bear trap, man?

Not worth it. What's left on your debt on the rental?

Sir? What's left on the debt? The loan you took out? Uh I took out 100,000. I

put 60 in it and put 40 back.

So, you sell the rental, pay off the debt, you got some left over.

>> You got enough You got enough to do two You got enough to do spec two two specs.

Yeah, I I could probably squeeze out two if I sell that. >> That feels like it'd be worth it. Yeah, that's that's what I'm doing for sure. >> That's going to create some peace and get you out of debt. And then I'm never going back in. I'm okay being the tortoise rather than

the hare because every time I read the book, the tortoise wins.

It's people that get in a hurry that trip over their own feet.

Including me. That's how I went broke in my 20s. Cuz I got in a big hurry.

And I built a house of cards. I got rich quick, literally.

And it turns out the best way to get rich quick is get rich slow.

If you want to keep it. So, that that's best plan you can have. And that's Chris, you I I think you really do know how to do this and a lot of these guys have been watching Flip This House on TikTok and they don't know what they're really doing, but I think this guy's really doing it. >> Well, all of culture tells you to just go borrow against it, borrow against it, do the BRRR method, go do the next one, borrow against that.

That's how the wealthy do it. And they don't talk about it when it goes wrong. Not true. It's not how the wealthy do it.

>> proof, Dave, that's not how the wealthy do it. >> I mean, no. I mean, all of them we meet with, they don't tell us, you know, I I I stayed leveraged my whole life and and I lived in anxiety and oh, and I made well, but I got wealthy. That's not what they tell me.

They went, "Hey, we were kind of boring and we went slow and we paid for cash as we went." That's what they all tell us every time we interview them. Well, that's why they don't have the real estate course. It'd be a terrible course if you just went, "Well, pay cash, go slow." That's why I don't have one. It's a short That's why I haven't written a book on how to buy real estate.

It's short. Now, you broke down in Investing Essentials. We do this virtual event where you actually break down your real estate principles and it's fascinating, but the actual math behind it is save up, pay cash, and yeah, it's going to take you a little while to get that first one. And then there's this what's known as a cash on cash return on investment.

Hello. I mean, you know. So, yeah, Chris is in a position to do that. It's just choosing what do you want more?

And if I'm listening to his story, if I was in his shoes, I would want to build those specs more than I wanted that rental. Yeah. Well, it didn't sound like he wants to be a landlord. Business, he likes building the specs and selling them and making a profit with them.

>> who lives next door. He don't want cray-cray to move in next door. I don't blame him.

But this is a guy that doesn't like drama, so don't don't invite the banker into your living room. No, thank you.

You don't like drama, keep bankers out of your life. Uh they're not They're not good for the drama factor. They bother mess up everything. Yeah, Chris, I think you're really good at this and so I I think I would go build a couple houses a year with cash. And um you know, I bought a house uh there's a family here in our area uh

third generation. They're now on fourth gen. Gen four is now building houses.

But uh great grandpa bought a bunch of land out here when nobody was out here out in the country and now the country came to city done come to the country, you know, kind of thing. So, moved out here and uh they ended up with it and they've been developing residential lots for years and they built spec houses, expensive spec houses um with cash. And it's hilarious. You go into this million million and a half house and they go they go, "Well, you know, I I don't like the countertops in this one and I would like to have a different color in the living room." And they say, "Fine, you can do that after you move in." I love it.

They're not desperate. >> They're not They don't They don't do anything. They They won't change a thing. They They and they don't build custom cuz they don't want to put up with people.

That's amazing. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 50. Dwelling On Past Mistakes Won't Benefit Your Future Growth | January 13, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union

Studio, this is the Ramsay Show.882552.

88 8255225 is the number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman alongside the fabulous, the incomparable Jade Warshaw and we're

going to team up. So uh she'll take lead on the money question. So obviously all the money questions but how about I'm

burned out. I don't have any life balance. We just did a recent uh uh survey and found out that that those are the two number one issues among professionals and those have financial ramifications. So we'll dive into some of those as well. Come one, come all.

Derek in Montana is gonna start us off today. Derek, how can we help?

>> Ken, Jade, it's great to be with you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on today?

>> Uh, well, basically the the gist of it

is I'm trying to find out or figure out, if you will, if um maybe I should just file bankruptcy and and start all over.

>> Um, kind of got myself into into some

some pickles here. Okay, give us a

picture. What are you facing?

>> So, um, we, uh, uh, started a business,

my wife and I, um, started a business here local where we're at. Um, was going

okay. And um then we decided to try to

enact or uh start up a a um something

for the community. Um and like a an

arcade and brought in some people to help us out. They had the games, we had the space, and um so we were putting

that together. Um we encountered some

issues with the the way things were operating. So, we thought we would branch out and get our own equipment and

things just have not turned out to uh come to fruition. So, >> what have you spent on getting this arcade up and running?

>> So, right now we're about 25,000 in debt on just the arcade.

>> Okay. And how long is this how long have you been in this business venture? Has it been a year, 6 months, more?

We are about a year and nine months.

>> Okay. And what's what's the issue? Is it people just aren't showing up? Is it the prices are high or too low, but when we raise them, it doesn't work out? Like what's the problem?

>> Yeah, people just have not showed up. Uh

so we were unaware of some of the um uh

startup cost from the bank uh to obtain the debt. And so when we went to go sign the papers, it was, "By the way, here's, you know, some additional um fees that need to get paid." And instead of going back to um underwrite the the the

additional fees to make sure that we were going to be able to to make it happen, I said, "I'm sure it'll be fine.

I can I can figure it out." >> Um and so that ended up chewing up all of our marketing and um advertising

budget. And so I kind of started out behind the behind the ball on it and tried to play catch-up the whole time and it just never happened.

>> How much was the the advertising and marketing budget? Like how much did you see yourself spending per month or whatever it was that this debt ate up

>> about 2,000 uh initially.

>> Are you in a hightraic area or kind of tucked away where nobody knows where you are? Uh, so the space is in a very hightraic

area.

>> Okay. >> Or was I I should say. So we closed down the location, moved out the games um to a new location. Hopefully that pays off.

Um, and then just reducing the overhead.

So for the last year, we have just dumped all of our personal income. Uh,

my wife's personal income. I'm self-employed, so I don't have any. um all of her W2 into maintaining and

keeping things afloat, trying to anyways. >> Well, you mean when you say her income, you mean um any kind of margin that you guys have above all your personal bills?

Then you're taking the surplus, for lack of a better word, and you're pouring that into the business. Is that what I'm understanding? >> Yes. >> Okay. How much is the equipment worth the all the games themselves?

>> If I were to sell it right now? Yeah.

Um, probably maybe 10, 12.

>> So, half.

>> Yeah, roughly. >> Can Can I ask a quick question before we keep going down that trail because I do want to keep going down that. Do you honestly now in your heart of hearts after you've seen how this has played out over the last uh o over 12 months,

the 2000 cuz here's where my mind goes, Ken. If you had a $2,000 a month ad

spend or marketing spend and that is now

eaten up in fees that you didn't know were going to be there, my first intuition would be like, well, there's nobody at the arcade. How can I go out and earn this money elsewhere so that we can get our ad spend up so that we can get people in the doors? Which leads me to ask, do you believe that even if you had spent that 2,000, you wouldn't have be a you wouldn't have been able to get those folks in the door? Is that what you're realizing? Or do you just not know?

I I don't know. Um I do believe that

with the ad spend and being able to put signage on the building and the things that we were not able to do, I think >> Oh, there's no sign on the building.

>> There's no sign on the building.

>> I couldn't get the signage. Not not appropriately. >> Well, but now see, I think we're now I think we're majoring on the minors.

>> Um >> I'm just trying to see if there's something here that's salvageable.

>> Yeah, the equipment. Now again, you may have a different take. I'm just sitting here listening. >> Well, there's no sign on the building, so nobody was gonna go up in there.

>> I know. But he's in a new location. He's not even in a hightraic location anymore. Correct.

>> So, we we put the games uh in a in a

separate business that has um traffic

that is separate in and of itself. Um

you know, bowling alley, restaurant type, you're renting them establishment.

>> You're renting them to these places.

We're doing what is a profit share. So I

now I'm just getting a cut off of whatever they make. >> Oh gosh. Okay. >> But you can't make a living on you cannot make a living on this. Yes or no?

>> No. That is that is my hope for this is that I we can just make enough to pay the payment for the debt for those games. >> And that's what I'm bringing back up. I think the question I want to come back to the question at hand that you asked.

Should you file bankruptcy? I don't think so. I think you can pay the 25 off.

What's your wife? >> Not just that 25. >> What's that? >> It's not just that 25. >> What's your total debt amount?

>> Just shy of 68,000.

>> 68,000.

>> Yes. >> All right. I I'll defer to Jade. I You know, this is not a viable business. So, yeah, at this point, if you can get your money back on those machines over time and pay this debt off >> and then shut it down, but you need a full-time job. I'll just throw that out there. >> Yeah, that I I agree with Ken. At the 25,000 I'm looking 25,000 in one year.

I'm thinking there's something that can be saved here possibly. But now what you've told me with the 68,000 I think that you need to, you know, cut your losses here. Yeah. >> Um what's your wife earn?

>> What's your wife's income? >> She she makes about 75 a year.

>> Okay. Now, this business debt, is that your your only debt or do you have other I'll call quote unquote personal debt to add to the pile? So, so the arcade is

roughly about 25 in debt. Um, I have my

other business that I was that was my main source of income. Um, and because

of the issues that we had with the arcade, I kind of took my focus in.

>> Okay, I'm going to cut you off because we're running out of time. If the total of your all debt altogether is 68,000,

like I I think that it is, uh, you need to pick up a full-time job yesterday, take your wife's income, and you're going to pay this off as quickly as possible. You're not going out to eat.

You're not doing anything. You're selling a car if you need to to clear this out very quickly.

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Let's go to Megan who's joining us now in Pittsburgh. Megan, how can we help today? >> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Sure. >> So, I have a 401k loan and I'm not sure

how to proceed. Just given some

different options. Um, I just learned that I do have a cash out option. So, for example, the 401k is about 30,000.

Um, the loan is 15,000. Like, after all the math and everything, if I were to walk away from it and cash out my 401k, I would walk away with that loan being paid and they would cut me a check for $11,000. >> You don't want to do that. >> Jade, I want to make a smart decision.

>> Well, that's start there. I literally cut you off because I'll let Jade explain why, but you do not want to take this option. >> Well, number one, you've you've made you've made a mistake, which is okay. We all make mistakes, especially when we don't know better. When you took that loan pre-retirement, obviously, you were hit with a 10% penalty, and it it's going to affect your income taxes. And you unplugged the investment, right? You unplugged the growth that has been accumulating. Knowing that, let's not

turn around and do the same thing again and unplug the rest of the the investment just to get $11,000 back.

Okay? Let's solve the problem that we made on accident and let's solve it on purpose. So, if I were you, the $15,000 loan, I'd just pay it back. I'd pay it back. Because the thing with 401k loans is obviously they're tied to your employer and if for some reason you are

fired, that loan becomes due in and it's

got a time period on at that point.

Sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's more. So that's why I don't like these hanging around. And if you knew that, that might be why you're considering this. But I would not unplug uh the rest

of my growth to get out of this faster.

I'm sure there's some other fees around that. Um, so let's look at your income and let's look at what we can actually do to get this thing knocked out.

>> Sure. >> So, what is your income?

>> 140 household. >> Okay. And is this 401k loan? I'm guessing it's not your only debt. It sounds like you got up against it. So, tell me about your other debts.

>> Yeah. So, we do have some consumer debt.

It's due to um uh it was due to fertility treatments. >> Okay. Um, so just racked up really quickly and we have baby so that's great. Um, but racked up really quickly.

So we have some consumer debt. We're looking at about so 15k for the 401k loan about 15k in credit cards. That's

putting the medical stuff on it.

>> Um, we both have a car payment. Total on

the cars is 20. >> Tell me, broke break them down for me, the two. >> Yeah, we we both owe about 10 on each of our cars. >> Okay.

And that's it. >> Um, >> other than that, um, student loan debt, we're looking at about 800 a month.

>> What's the total >> balance on that? I think we're we're at

45 if I recall correctly.

>> Okay. Um, and is that it or is there more?

>> That's it. >> Okay. Um, the 140K, is that just you or

that's you and your husband combined?

>> Combined. >> Okay. Um, yeah. Congratulations on the

baby. We've got to get get through this.

And I think with the cars, yeah, you're likely it's best to just keep those and knock them out quickly. Um, but I would

You've got the 15,000 on the 401k and 15,000 or the credit. Are the credit cards is it one credit card or is it multiples? >> It's one. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to uh I would probably I'm thinking about Ramsay verse and I know that in the Ramsey verse there's certain things that we move to the top of the list. Things like IRS debt and a

401k loan. I'd probably move that right up there because of the implications on it. Um if you're in the chats and you disagree with me, you can let me know later, but um I'd probably get into that

pretty quickly. >> Do you have any equity on the cars?

>> Yeah, we do. Um, >> how much equity each car?

>> Yeah, the the last list the last thing we got from like Carvana or something. I can go to Kelly Blue Book later, but um

uh my car is worth about 15.

>> Um there's about 10 left on it >> and then and that's that's why cuz we were working on the cars first and I was like we might need to recircle.

>> Um 15 and my loan is about 10,000 and

then his is it's right about the same. I mean 14 15 and there's about 10 left on

it. >> Yeah. And the reason I asked those those questions is because if we can uh sell

one of the cars, you know, get a hoopy

uh for a for a short season. I I'm with

Jade because of the precarious nature of this 401k loan. I would want to put that 15k back in there. Um I really would. I

would probably since you have the since you have 15,000 on the credit cards and 15,000 on the 401k, I'd kind of view those as interchangeable. I mean, technically you should do smallest to largest. Um, how I don't even want to ask you how stable your job is, but the point is >> let's just say the point is >> it is stable. Okay, great.

>> Then let's do it. >> And I know the answer to the question, not not to cut you off there. So, if I were to leave, the payments would actually just come with me. it's not due immediately.

So, I have vetted some of those questions. >> Um, so it would just continue on, right, which isn't great, but like good to know. >> Yeah, it is good to know. Uh, but the the the goal here is for you to knock this out as quickly as possible, and that's going to that's going to take some sacrifice on you guys' end.

401k loan aside, the debt in total is a problem. And so, I'd be looking at ways that you can cut back your income.

>> Yeah, we're in every dollar. >> Okay, great. What are those car payments?

>> Car payments are

His is about 350. Let me look at my notes. And mine is 182.

>> Yeah. Uh yeah, I'd be looking in there

and saying, "Okay, what's our margin since you're in it?" Do you know off the top of your head what your margin is?

>> It's about a thousand a month.

>> Okay. So, the way I would look at this is I'd look at $1,000 a month and I go, "Oh my gosh, if I do it like this, it's going to take me five years, right? It's going to take me forever." So, I'd work I'd reverse engineer that and I do the math on that and say, "I want to be done with this in like 2 years." Like, no more than two years.

And then the equation becomes if it's 20, you know, $2,000 or $2,500, you have to then say, "Okay, how do we then go get this money?" I feel like that's a better way to attack this. That way, everything's on your terms based on it just kind of happening to you. You get to have real skin in the game and make make a plan for what you want to happen and then go out and make that happen.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Fair enough. So, that's what I would do.

And I definitely would not take any of the options that you mentioned earlier uh that involve you clearing out the remainder of the 401k.

>> Yeah. Now, this is very doable. Now, it's not going to be fun. And I'm hinting around on the cars. I don't know if you're catching my hints with all these questions, but in you guys are in in a pretty rare situation when we get calls where people actually have some equity. And at this stage of the game, I wonder if it's not worth both of you selling your cars and buying two $5,000 cars. if if that's the equity situation,

if you can pay it off, if they're both worth that, um that'd be something I would look at because that's going to free up some monthly money >> and that gives you that urgency to go, okay, I want to get out of this quickly.

So, you know, if you've got equity in the cars, and I would double triple check all that, and you can get out of there and get walk away with some cash and pay cash for two cars, that's a

listen, that propels you. And Jade, you you could speak to this. That propels you into the intensity that I think you need to have to kind of go, I don't love the fact that we just got rid of our and I know it's an extreme situation.

>> It's you know what, you get to be extreme as you want to be. And you know, I I'll push people towards the extreme because at the end of the day, you're going to get stuff done faster. I was writing an article today for one of these outlets and I was saying how when Sam and I were getting out of debt, we did three very extreme things. Very extreme. We moved out of our our apartment, moved into a townhouse and got roommates. It took our rent from $1,200 a month to $600 a month. We sold

off, we were a two-car family. We sold one uh it was a 35 $34,000 H3 $435 a

month payment. Freed up $435 and we didn't get a beater. Instead, we just became a onecar family and then we sold

off all of the furniture that was part of our rooms to go loan and instead we bought an air mattress and slept on that. So very very extreme, but it's a

short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. And it's up to you how how bad you want to get out of it and how long you want that sacrifice to last. You got to go extreme if you want to get out of it quick. Scorched earth.

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All right, let's go to Providence, Rhode Island next. Mary joins us there. Mary,

how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, I have a question. Um, so

they're putting in lowincome housing literally across the street from us, about 600 ft from our house.

>> We still owe 150 um in mortgage, but um

we got a really good deal on this house like 5 years ago um because it was a direct sale and we knew the folks that were selling it. We have some really really good neighbors.

My husband now just works 10 minutes from the house when he was before commuting about an hour and a half and I

have a three-year-old and a one-year-old and we're planning on having another.

So, we're just trying to figure out if we should move because if we move

anywhere, it's kind of we won't be able to afford it. like whatever we get on this house will likely be less and if we stay from what I read when section 8

goes in about the housing market um the

area loses about 40% of market value.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, let's take a deep breath. Okay. Because I I would have all those same concerns that you have legit concerns. Uh but we have to parcel out

the concerns versus the facts and see what the risk is. It's it this is all about mitigating risk, right?

>> Right. >> What are your neighbors saying? Is anybody else as informed as you are? Are they more informed? What do we know?

>> More informed. Some of us like, so we've gone to our town meetings. >> Okay. >> And basically the town voted no, but the

state came in and overrode us.

>> Okay. >> Um and said, "Too bad, you have to do it." And our neighbor has lived here like they're in their 60s and they both grew up in the neighborhood. So they don't want to leave.

>> Okay. >> Um >> what what is your house?

>> Everyone in our street.

>> Have you gotten some legit real estate comps?

>> Um so a street uh uh similar uh size to

us that was built so our house was built in 2013 and there's an older house that just sold for almost 500 and we bought

our house for 430.

>> Okay. But you only owe 150 on it. But we

only owe 150. Yeah, we owe 150.

>> One other thing I want to address, and it's not a back and forth, but I do think it's important in this process to mention that, you know, you said something a few minutes ago that, well, if we move, there's no way we're going to be able to afford to live somewhere else. And that's just simply not true.

Right now, you may have to move further than you want to, >> but but I do think when you're making decisions like this, you can't be operating in in really uh extreme

uh falsehoods, okay? because then you'll end up making a decision based on a false narrative. So, do you understand what I'm saying and why I'm challenging you on that? >> Yeah.

>> Because you may, this may be the best option for you guys to move. I don't know that it is yet. Uh but if it is, you can't have this mindset of, well, we're just simply not going to be able to afford to go somewhere else. The state has unfortunately come in and put you guys in a pickle.

Uh and that stinks. But now we've got to make the best decision moving forward.

>> Do you have any information on how it's

um going to be like parcled out? Is it going to be a lot of um units or is it

going to be spread out? >> Putting in 40 units on like 2 acres.

>> Um and it's a they're really congesting

our block. like we said the town tried

to go with 20, but the um builder said

we need 40 because they don't pay um

they don't usually end up paying uh their rent on time so they're relying on states and federal subsidies.

>> Do you have a real estate pro?

>> Uh no. >> Okay. Ramseyolutions.com. What is the actual website so I give it correctly here? Uh team's gonna help me out. We'll get it to you in just a second. What is it? >> Okay. >> I'm not hearing in my ear.

>> Oh, can you hear me? >> Okay. Real estate. So, ramseyolutions.com slash agent. Is that right? Okay. Sorry

about that. I just didn't have that in front of me because here's the deal. I want you to get two or three opinions from some very successful real estate pros in your area. I mean, I'd have them out this week >> and and I I'm just going through my checklist.

Jay, jump on here. But I'm going, all right, I want some some pros who've been in your market for a long time and they're crushing it. And I'd get their opinion, multiple opinions, two to three opinions, so that now we may realize, uh, we've got a little bit of time. Or, no, we need to get out in front of this and list this house right now.

>> That's right. and and and and you know this thing drag on drag on drag on and you hurt yourself. Again, I have no idea and that's why I want to stay real, you know, real careful here about making some type of real uh strong recommendation on what you should do as to whether you list it right now or not.

But if you get some advice from three really good real estate pros and they're all saying the same thing. They're going, I get out while the getting is good, >> then I would do that and realize that I can re uh establish myself. And you got a lot of equity in this home.

>> So you got options. Jade, what what else would you be thinking? >> Uh my biggest thing was the concentration of of development and how much how much per like how many units per block? Uh, is it going to be a thing where there's just a couple single family homes or is it really going to be a high concentration?

Obviously, a higher concentration could soften the market for you over time. So, that's that's the thing that I was worried about. So, I I'm with Ken. I would get with somebody that's a professional specifically in your area that can give you more concrete information on what they believe the timeline the best timeline would be.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Sorry that's happening to you. Uh, let's go to Vince now in Denver, Colorado. Vince, how can we help today?

>> Hey, Ken and J, thanks for taking my call. So, I was wondering if it's okay for me to make a career move now. I'm married, have three kids, >> currently in law enforcement, making about $97,000 a year, and I want to become a journeyman lineman.

>> Uhhuh. >> But after the four-year apprenticeship program, um, it's like 230,000 plus.

>> Woo! Woo! Man, I love that.

So you're it sounds awesome. >> So you're locked in for four years at 50 to 60.

>> It's uh so there's different steps within that four years. So there's step one, step two, all the way up to seven.

Once you get seven, then you top out and there's a 5% increment starting from 60% pay, 70% pay of the um whatever the

annual okay rate is for.

>> But okay, so I I got confused somehow.

So for four years, what? Give me a give me your pay. Year one, if you make this move, you're making 97 now in law enforcement. Year one, you're making what? As a journeyman.

>> Uh well, as it'll be an apprentice. So, as year one apprentice, I'm making um about 50 to 60,000.

>> Okay. Year two, what are you making? >> Year two, >> then it bumps up to about um 70 to 80

and then probably 80 to 90 and then

>> so on so forth. >> 230 >> every year. Yeah, >> you get >> a $10,000 bump. >> Do you guys have any debt?

>> No. So, we only have our mortgage. Um, that one is we have $343,000 left. We

just recast it to lower our expenses.

>> What's your monthly payment? >> Mortgage? >> Uh, $275.

>> What kind of margin do you guys have in your budget after all the bills are paid right now?

Currently, right now, after everything is paid, we have about anywhere from 35

to $4,000 in margin.

>> Okay. Fantastic. And I'm assuming before you made this phone call, you ran the numbers on this new pay and what that would look like. >> Correct. >> And are you guys going to be struggling?

I mean, isn't it is stressful or is there going to be a enough margin where we're relaxed because we can prepare?

We've prepared for this. It'll it'll definitely be a little tight uh the first year. The problem is I don't know how long. So, you have to apply to

become an apprentice and that can take

uh anywhere from 8 to 12 months.

>> Great. That gives you that gives you 8 to 12 months to stack up even more cash.

What's your emergency fund right now? What's the actual amount in it?

>> We have $36,000 in our emergency fund.

>> Okay. So, let's play this out. Let's say it takes 8 to 10 months before we even find out. If you start doubling down and putting more money in there, you could have a really fat emergency fund that would give you a ton of margin and sleep well in that first year. True or false?

>> True. >> And your wife could do some things if she had to to make a little extra money.

True or false?

>> True. >> Would it be worth it all to make 230,000 and have that as your trade in the end?

True or false? Very >> much. Very true.

>> I'm telling you, I'm doing it. If I'm you, I'm doing it. But we prepare for it. and it looks like you got 8 to 10 months to prepare for it and your wife can come alongside and help. I think this is an absolute no-brainer. We step

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>> Hi. Um, I'm 22 years old and I have

about $25,000 in debt. Um, I'm currently

on baby step two. I'm trying to figure out the best way to tackle um all the debt that I'm in. >> List it out for us. What is in your debt snowball?

>> Uh, currently it's about $600 in credit cards. Uh, 14 on a 1,400 on a personal

loan and then the rest is a car loan that I'm handling.

>> Okay. What do you mean by handling?

Um, I'm trying to figure out the best way to get the car off my hands because I know you guys don't believe in car payments and I'm slowly realizing that it's strangling me. >> Yeah. >> And uh, >> what kind of car is it? >> Uh, it's a 2021 Toyota Corolla.

>> Okay. What's it worth?

>> I've had different evaluations. The dealer I bought it from, they offered me 16,000 and then a dealer probably 10

miles away from me offered me 17.

>> Okay. So that means private sale you probably could break even on it now. Is it 23,000? Is that what you owe?

>> I owe like 20 225 even better. >> Private sale I've seen I've been offered about 19,000 for it.

>> Okay. Um

how much do you earn? What's your income?

>> Uh it ranges. Um I work retail so it can

be anywhere between like a,000 to,200 every two weeks. >> What do you mean retail? What is that specifically? What are you doing?

>> I I work for uh Verizon inside of a Best Buy. >> Okay. Do you have a degree in anything?

>> I'm currently in school trying to get my associates in business.

>> Okay. I I got to tell you, if I'm How old are you again? >> 22. >> 22. If I'm a 22-y old and I have this debt, I I I'm actually going to just work like a maniac and I'm going to get a much better job and then I'm going to get a better second job and then I'm going to look for any kind of crazy projects on Craigslist or somebody in LA

needs me to come move them or something like this. I'm making money hand over fist because this is very doable for you. You just have the $600 in credit card that you could knock that out by selling something you got right now. Um, and then you got the $1,400 personal loan and the rest is the car.

So, the truth of the matter is >> I don't know that you have to sell this car. You could pay this car off if you got really intense. You're just not making enough money.

>> I am right.

>> Yeah. >> Are you getting ready to go to school? Like, are you getting ready? Are you trying to like save up your time to go to school or go get some sort of a certification? Why is it that you're um

working retail right now and not getting more hours? >> Are you in college? >> Yeah, I Okay. >> I'm currently taking six six classes at a college. >> I missed that part. >> I'd press pause on those right now, too.

>> Oh, no. I have a different take on this.

I mean, you could totally do what Ken is saying. If I were in your shoes, I mean, you make $24,000 a year driving a $23,000 car and you're in Los Angeles.

You're in school. I would get out of that car almost like totally >> I'm all for that too. >> And I would get you a little clunker.

I'd spend $3,000 and get a little beater. I'd save that upright quick as quickly as you can. And I I would do that. You don't need, in my opinion, you

don't need this car in your life right now. And you certainly don't need it around your neck. And once you do that, you can quickly pay off the credit cards and the personal loan. But the biggest thing of this, Ken, is I hope that you've learned your lesson that that debt is not the way you want to go forward. uh moving forward after this.

>> Yeah, definitely. Um I've I've figured out like one of two ways to go about it.

There's this uh like ride sharing app called Turo where basically people will pay you to rent out your car and I figure I can make the >> the car payments doing that.

>> No, you don't have to listen cuz the car is going down in value. >> You don't have time for that.

>> No, you need more money. I'm actually with Jade. Um >> you need to do both. You need to get more money and you need to offload this car. you need more money. Uh because your your financial problem uh yes, you made a bad move on the car. You acknowledge it. We've we've we've we've stated that you need more money.

>> And right now, you spending any time in

a community college for six hours of an associates degree. I will tell you right now, and this will freak a lot of people out, and I really don't care. That is the worst thing you can do with your time right now. the amount of time you're spending on those classes, you need to be working and then get out of this debt and then we can start to cash flow our way through community college.

Those classes are going to be there for you. But there is, you've heard the old phrase, time is money, I hope. Have you ever heard that? >> Yes, >> bro. You need to be working. And I'm with Jay. You can get out of this car, but I want you to understand what she's what she suggested here. Uh you you literally are going to be upside down.

You're still going to have to pay off that loan, whatever's left. And then you got to figure around how to get around out of town and all that kind of stuff.

So the best thing you can do right now is just buckle down and realize that you can pay this debt off by making a lot more money. And I got to believe a guy who's willing, there's a way to make money in LA. True or false?

>> 100%. >> Well, let's go. >> Might I add something about schooling?

>> So I um I currently work like 40 hours a

week, but I'm taking all of my classes online. So, I'm like I started the

semester on Monday and I'm already two months ahead on all my assignments because I just sat down and >> that's fine. I'm not going to die on that hill. But I'm making a bigger point that right now with a guy who doesn't have a professional plan and we're just taking six hours, you know, I'm all for again extreme momentum to start something. But you could stay in the online class that's costing you money.

>> How much? Yeah. How much does that cost you? >> Uh I'm doing financial aid, so I literally paid $40 for six classes.

Okay, fine. Listen, the the the advice remains the same. Ken is right. You need money. Money is the magical elixir for

this problem. And then, yeah, in my opinion, it would behoove you to go ahead and move this car and drive something. Spend $5,000. 3,000 is to get from upside down. The other 2,000 is to get a beater. And then from there, that frees you up to think, okay, what what am I doing? Cuz what are you doing with this community college degree? What's what's the path?

Um, I'm trying to get into like finance or um hopefully if I could figure out some sort of path to go on um maybe create my own business.

>> Okay. I tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you as my gift. Find the work you're wired to do. It's got the get clear assessment in it. And this is about 20 minutes. I want you to take the assessment. Will you do it?

>> Sure. >> And and it's going to spit out a lot of great stuff. It's got an AI component to it. It'll give you uh potential paths and suggestions, but you need to get more clarity on what my long-term could

be so that it's not about giving a snappy answer, but the way you answer that tells me you need more clarity. And the more clarity you have, the more confidence you'll have in every area of your life. But right now, and again, I'm going to give you that gift. So, hang on the line.

But right now, I'm telling you, it is all about cleaning up this mess. And Jade's right. You didn't need the car. Clean up the car.

The rest of this stuff is easy.

And you know, Jade, I don't know that I love being in the big city. I love being young and all that, but at this stage, it's like

>> we need more young people in these large cities going, >> I'll figure out the 15 and the 20 and the 30-year plan. right now while I'm here learning and bouncing around people. I don't need a lot of social time. I need hustle time to learn how to

because the social time will come.

>> But we got a lot of young people. I'm not saying he's the guy. They get out of these big cities or whatever and they're just kind of bouncing around >> and it's like no, no, no.

>> Get up early, stay late.

>> Yes. >> Hustle, hustle, hustle. Let's clean up our financial situation. >> Work around the clock. You don't have a family to come home to. You don't have any. You know what I Man, that's part of the grind. >> Yes. Yes.

>> You know, let's just let's go live in the big city and and experience. >> Well, you got to be there for a reason. What's the point? To network, to find connections, and you can do that while you're hustling, you know, but simultaneously. >> Goodness gracious. Let's go. $1,200

every two weeks in LA.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us.

888255225

is the phone number. Ilvaro is going to join us now in Houston, Texas. How can we help today?

>> Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> So, I have um a family member that owes

me money and my question is how can I

make her start paying me? Um, we have a

good relationship and I, you know, um, I don't want this to be something bad in between us. >> Who's the family member?

>> My sister-in-law. >> Your sister-in-law.

And you got a And and she she borrowed the money or your brother did?

>> Um, um, brother. No, no. I I get her the

money.

>> It's your sister-in-law. So, is it your wife's sister? Is that who it is?

>> Right. >> Well, your wife's I'm sorry, I jumped. I made too many conclusions. That's that's what threw you off. I apologize. No worries. >> So, how did how much money are we talking about?

>> 14,000. >> 14,000. And how did the request how how' the request come in? Did it come in through your wife or did like how did this happen? Tell me more about how it transpired. >> Right. So, um, my wife, her sister, she passed.

And so, um,

a few months later, uh, we were we were

working on, um, on a venue for events

all together, everybody, the whole family. And so, >> um, she needed money for the something

for the venue. and I talked to her say I'm going to give you the money. Um and

well I gave her the money and uh that has been like what 8 years ago or so.

>> When you say and you were working on an event with your family, is this a a business? Is this a family business?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so you loaned her personal

money to This is an interesting thing.

So you're working on an event for a family. What was the 14,000 for? Was it?

>> It was for um

rent. >> Oh, >> for the Yeah. >> Wait, wait, wait. Okay. Couple months or so. >> Rent for the the business or rent for her personal? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> No. For the business, for the venue.

>> Okay. Is the business still viable?

>> No. >> Ah. So, the business failed?

>> Correct. >> And it was her business or it was you all's family business.

So I was not too involved because I had

my my own job, my own thing and it was

my wife with her and the other sister.

>> Got it. >> And >> her brother. So basically

everybody on her side >> and this is eight years old now and you're calling us and you're asking us what advice we should give you about getting your money back from your wife's sister. that's taken eight years and I'm sure we've talked about it in the eight years time. Yes, we've talked about this. >> Yes.

Yes. I uh >> I don't know that I got any advice. I gotta tell you, you're you're between a rock and a hard place, my friend. >> Yeah.

I don't think it's happening. Plus, it was a business that your sis your wife was part of.

I acquiring minds want to know what your wife thinks about this debt. >> Uhhuh.

>> No, she she passed. So she

>> I am so sorry. I missed that. Your wife passed.

>> Right. Right. My wife Heresy. Yeah. My

wife >> passed. So >> I am so sorry my friend. We did not catch that detail. Did you Did you hear that? I did not hear that. Okay. I am so sorry. So So your wife is no longer with Okay. I am so sorry.

>> Good heavens. And so that's why um in

order to make the business happen, I she

came to me and I say, "Okay, let I'll help you. You're grieving too, so let's

let's do this together." And I give her the $14,000.

And then >> and then um >> three years later, four years later, her

husband passed. >> Oh no.

>> And so I I let her go. I talked to her

again. I say, "Okay, listen. I'm going to um let's talk about the death next

year and give you some time to grieve and to >> um you know, get on your feet, all that." >> And yeah, so

this is it right here now.

>> So, what happens there? There's part of me that I'm with Ken. I think you're never going to get this back, but I just want to know when you mention it to her, what does she say?

Yes. Yes, I'm working on it. Give me some time. Uh, right now things are tough, you know, something like that.

>> Are you asking for are you asking for a lump sum or are you asking for what are you asking for from her?

>> No, just a payment plan. I one time I sat down with her and I and I talked to her about that. Hey, this is something that I have in my mind. Um, give me at least $1,000 per per year. And we're not

even talking about interest here. So, you're kind of like folks call in here all the time and they have a debt that they weren't able to pay and it goes to collections and it goes to collections because, you know, the the vendor basically realizes we're not going to get anything and it's not worth our time. Collections will get whatever they can get for it and they charge it off. Whatever. That's you right now. The

likelihood of you getting this money is very, very, very slim. So, your choices

are you could try to make a deal literally and say, you know, give me what you have and we'll call it clear like you would with a collections agency. You could try that or you could just say, you know what, this woman lost her sister. She lost her husband. She doesn't have any money and you could just let it go. But either way, between

those two, I can tell you number three, you're not getting $14,000 from her.

>> Not in lumpsum. And I would I'm with you. I think it's a long shot. I'm sitting here going, "Okay, all right. I want to do my best here to serve him." I'm going, "What would I do?" And I think I would sit down with her and go, "Look, I know it's been tough for you. I had my own loss in this deal. I helped you out of the goodness of my heart, but gosh, this is eating away at me. And can we make some kind of like consistent

commitment to do something?" So, do you have anything you can sell? The problem is she probably needs the money, but I would at least go, "Do you have something you can sell? Uh, can we work together on this or else I'm gonna have to write this off emotionally?

>> I think that's the only thing you can do. I Yeah, I don't think a payment plan is that feels weird.

>> The truth is it's just as much your mistake as it is hers cuz borrowing money between family members is a mistake. It's It is not um It's not a

good move. So, it wasn't a good move on your part to do that. And it's not a good move on her part to not pay the money she said she would pay back. So, it's just a rock in a hard place. I'm sorry that >> are Are you in financial trouble?

>> Um, it can help.

Uh, not not too bad now.

>> Okay. Well, let me let me say this because we're we're winding up our time here, but I the reason I asked that question is is that's the also the switch that needs to happen. You need to now take this 14,000 and go, "This is not going to solve my problem. That's going to be gravy if and when I get any of it." So now we change our life. Elvaro, you've got to take

control of your situation

uh and make it better. You can't rely on this 14 coming in to to make the day better at all. In fact, I would just wof this is a tough situation. Um >> it's a lot of money. >> It's a lot of money, but you got to move on from it because it's maybe very hard to get back. So sorry you're in this situation. The moral of the story is what in a bumper sticker? >> Don't loan people money.

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All right, let's go to Marley in Phoenix, Arizona. Marley, how can we help? >> Hey guys. Hi. >> Um, so I am a woman in my 40s and I

already had some assets and investments in place before starting to prioritize being debtree. Like over the years, I've

built like a comfortable, stable life. I don't make a ton of money, but I make good financial decisions overall. I'm really proud of where I am, but I keep

hitting the same issue where I

get into a relationship and for me, marriage is not on the table. I don't want to be married, but I also don't want to be alone. Um, >> tell me, wait a second. All right, we need at least a few seconds on this deal. What? You want a relationship, but you don't want to get married? What's the What's the barrier there?

I watched my mom and my dad and my they are wonderful people. My dad was a good provider but it made me unable to trust

anyone else with my financial well-being. Like I always need to take care of that for me. I need to have autonomy for that. >> Did someone do >> Oh, I just I don't see in my life being

able to put my financial wellbeing in

someone else's. >> Is that because of how your dad treated your mom? Oh, no. He I mean he didn't give her a lot of like equality and equity.

>> Uhhuh. >> He was a good provider. They had a decent relationship for what they were taught in their >> Okay. But you came out of that said, but because of that, you use that as the context to say as a result, I don't ever want to rely on a husband for financial

safety.

>> Correct. Correct. I'm I am going to be independent and take care of myself and then you know build that life but

>> but you want a relationship >> monogous long-term relationship.

>> So what you're what you're looking for is companionship. That's what you're looking for, >> right? >> And you have about that.

>> Well, how's that working out?

>> I mean, it it always works out well for

a while. >> How long? And eventually they want to wife me. Like I don't know.

I >> Well, that's all you're going to get. I mean, you have to Here's the thing. I'm just going to shoot you straight as your friend. If you say to somebody, I want

companionship from you. Um there's no

commitment there. And so that person has the ability to say, "Yeah, I'll hang with you as long as this works out for me." And then when it no longer works out for me, they can they can cut you loose. That's what you're giving them permission to do. So, you kind of have to know that if that's what you want to do, you probably every five, six years

or maybe you might get a decade out of somebody, you're going to be switching over to somebody else. >> And and I'm okay with that. But >> Oh, you are. >> How do you if if I am clear about what's

on the table and they don't believe me, which I tend to find is the case. They think, "Oh, I'll change her mind." >> Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Like, I don't have children. Everybody always said, "Oh, she'll change her mind." Guess what? So, you're sad you're breaking up with these guys and they're sad. >> You feel like you're a heartbreaker >> and you're like, "Why am I a heartbreaker? I told you this from the beginning." >> I I just feel like I was clear about my expectations and eventually they either

the only time that I feel I need to end the relationship, like if it is financially oriented, is when they say

either you give me access to your accounts or I can't be with you and I say, "Okay, then we're not together." How many times has this How many times has this happened where you have broken off a relationship because the guy wanted to get married?

>> Uh, two. >> And how old are you, if I may ask?

>> I'm in my 40s. >> You're in your 40s. And has it been really heartbreaking? Any of these? Has Have they been gutwrenchingly hard even though you stuck to your principle? I'll give you that. Has it been really hard on you?

I mean, it there's obviously emotional strife, but when I look back on it, it's

not a level of regret that I feel like, oh, I missed out on something good because of it. >> All right. So, what's your question then? >> Yeah.

What's the question? Cuz my thing is like, I'll meet you where you're at. If you're if you're like, I never want to get married. Fine.

I at this point, I think it's just setting proper expectations and knowing >> I have a suggestion later, right, >> that I want you to consider, Marley, but I I don't want to get in way of what you called for. What What What did you call for?

structure? Because I know for the whole

Ramsay thing is that when you're married, you're one. >> Yeah. If you're not married, if you're not married, don't combine it.

>> Exactly. And so what is an appropriate way to execute that?

>> It's not on the table. >> Execute what?

>> You're dating. You have to view everybody as somebody you're dating, which is my money is mine. I do whatever

my plan is. I do my own thing and I'm

with them as long as they'll be with me until they want to get married and I don't and then they'll exit the scene and I will >> Are you talking about like day-to-day expenses?

>> Yeah. Like what's what's Cuz I've tried several roomates ways.

>> Yeah. It sounds to me like you're Can I say this? You're roommates and you got some type of privileges that's between you and whoever. But you're roommates.

So that means you're splitting utilities, you're splitting the rent. I mean, that's what we would suggest because you're not married.

>> And by the way, that's what you want anyway. Sounds like you don't want Yeah.

>> anybody to weigh in on your finances

>> or contribute.

>> Back out per perhaps it's more of a backing out of the romantic part of the relationship. And just saying like

knowing that the the romantic part does have some like you want to be fair. You want to be equitable. Like you don't want to be having anybody feel like they're being taken advantage of.

>> Well, here I'm so confused.

>> Well, here's the thing. The the hard part is the hard part is foundationally I see it differently because if you have love for someone at a certain level especially at an intimate level then you're wanting that intimacy to take place in other areas of the relationship as well but you have blocks there. So there is I'm just saying this again as your buddy. There is going to be because of of the way love works.

There is going to be some dysfunction there with you having those barricades there and wanting basically to have everything a marriage has but not having the marriage. It's like I want all the benefits of this, but I don't want any of the risk of it. And that I think that's what you're struggling with. And I I'm going to tell you that's going to cause you issues and it's going to cause confusion and like you said to quote you emotional strife because you're trying to execute.

your cake and eat it too. And it seems like you have a really good reason in your head for that. But I think that you're letting that reason become an excuse for you to really get the most out of this. Um I said it before that I wasn't going to try to convince you else-wise and I'm not. But I would suggest you maybe getting to the bottom of that because to your point, you've

seen relationships not work out well.

But I guarantee you, you've seen them, you have seen them work out well. So, you know, it can go either way. And you have to ask yourself, what was the factor in that? What caused a relationship to go well or not go well?

And is there any piece of control that you can have over that? I think yes. I think that marriages are successful every single day. Um, and so there's part of that that there could be more education or learning to go on that that could help you. Um, >> you got to redefine you got to redefine control. Um, Marley, I thought I was going to hear something far more traumatic. Maybe you didn't want to share it. Don't need you to share it.

Right. Something you witnessed has created a massive, massive hole of trust in your life.

>> You just don't trust anybody. Not criticizing you here. You called in. I'm making a little quick analysis here to say that there is no way to structure

these relationships with romance and

then a lack of trust around finance. You

just can't do it. And what's going to happen, Marley, and you said you're okay with it and you've signed up for it. Here was my suggestion. If you haven't done it before, I would get a really good therapist and I would sit with a therapist long enough and you got the money to do it and I would dive into this and see if the therapist can help you get to the bottom of this lack of trust and then help you with tools to be able to deal with this trust because I think in the end if you give it a shot for those of us I've been married almost 28 years so I'm not I'm not selling something that I don't believe in.

I just think that you can have that relationship that you long for and coexist with finances, but not until you can see the source of your lack of dis a lack of trust. And I see that. I feel that. I I hate that for you, but I would give it a shot.

Give it a shot. Like get to the source of this before we jump back into another relationship. And I think it's worth it in the long run.

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All right, Jade, I know you're paying attention to this stuff. We we talk about this stuff from time to time. Uh affordability probably the issue in America today, right? Whether you're on Tik Tok, Instagram, CNN, Fox News, whichever side of the >> ideological aisle or political aisle, everybody's talking about affordability.

And uh so I'm holding in my hands here a Yahoo article. Uh Trump is weighing in on all this stuff as well as the president. And uh latest headline, President Trump instructs government to buy $200 billion in mortgage bonds in a

bid to make homes more affordable. Um,

and so here's the idea. Um, if the government purchases 200 billion in mortgage bonds, uh, Trump is vowing that

this will drive rates down and make the cost of owning a home more affordable.

That's his quote.

>> Um, and he's saying it's one of the many steps in restoring affordability, something that the Biden administration uh, refused to do. Whatever, whatever, whatever. Um, I I bring that up to say, you know, Dave and I were on the air, I believe last week, and we were talking about uh one move that we did like is

Trump somehow pushing or help influencing legislation or if through an executive order it can be done uh not allowing corporations to come in and buy houses. >> Yeah, I think that would be wonderful.

>> We love that. This one, whether I agree with or not, is a very interesting thing and explain at least the math behind it.

Whether or not it's true, whether or not he can do it, >> it is interesting that people understand because what we want to do as Ramsey Solutions, we want to come when we can alongside potential public policy or existing public policy or new public policy and go here's how this affects you. So if in fact what he's saying, if the federal government's 200 billion, boom, >> explain why he thinks that that will work, what the math is on that.

>> Yeah. So obviously this is not the first time something like this has happened. We saw it in COVID too um to an extent but basically think about it when when you buy a a mortgage bond uh mortgage bonds are simply a bunch of mortgages rolled into one investment vehicle. So

if I if I buy a house can you buy a house? Technically the lender doesn't own it and investor investors have bought that off. And the reason that that happens is because when investors buy these mortgage bonds then it frees up the lenders to have more money to lend out again. So it creates a cycle there. So when these bonds are bought up, obviously if you infuse that market with $200 billion and you're buying up $200 billion of bonds, you're creating a very very high demand for bonds.

Obviously the higher the demand, the higher the price bracket goes for those.

And as the price goes down, then because this is an in demand item, people are willing to receive less in order to get it. When I say re receive less, I'm talking about interest. So when those interest rates go down, housing interest rates go down. So that's how it's connected.

So the thought is, hey, if we can go in here and kind of whether you believe this is artificial or not, artificially buy up all of these bonds, that's going to create the ability for the interest rates to go down. So that's kind of the idea around it, whether you agree with it or not.

this is, hey, if we do this too quickly, could it really mess with rates and could we see things plummet too quickly and it cause a whole set of other problems? It looks like whether they continue it or not, I think they've already started Ken and they've done like two or three billion uh of the 200 billion and so maybe if they do this kind of slower and over time, we might see interest rates tick down. Um so whether you agree with it or not, that's up to you. But just understanding it, I think, is the first part of it.

I think a lot of times headlines like this can they see the president's name and they see a big number and they go, "Oo, that's good." Or >> or I hate him >> or I hate it. And but really understanding it is a great place to start.

Uh-huh. >> What happens next? People who've been on the sidelines get in. Demand goes up.

What happens when demand goes up, Jade?

>> When demand goes up, those prices >> prices go up. So, while the cost of borrowing might go down, the cost of a house goes up. So, I I say all of that not to say you're doomed. No. But to say

that what we say here at Ramsay is there's never, >> you know, it's always a good time to buy if you can afford, >> right? that's the best time. There's no point. There's no waiting for the the circumstances to be right because we're sitting in a situation now where everybody's griping about housing. Well, I got news for you. Housing's going up if rates go down because of the demand.

We just explained that. So, here's the point. Um even with the 15-year uh we saw it dip last week. All these trends.

Again, just pay attention to this. Only buy if you're financially ready. And that means to make sure that your mortgage payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate conventional loan. Uh, and you need to know that buying a house in your budget's possible if you have the right real estate. Ramsey, trusted real estate agent. So, find yours at ramiesolutions.com/agents.

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Don't get stuck just trying to uh ride

the roller coaster of trends. It never works that simply. Lynwood is up next in Montgomery, Alabama. Lynwood, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. Thank you so much for taking my call. Well, that Yahoo article

is a perfect segue into my question. So,

um, super simple. I'm active duty, about to buy a house in March. My wife and I, this is our first home. Just kind of on the fence if I should use a conventional loan or a VA loan. Um, yeah, that

article came out and I called my loan officer and basically the difference I'm looking at is uh conventional what I'm

what I'm quoted as about $1,24

per month and with the VA loan at the the APY and APR it would be about $1,160

per month. So $44 per month difference,

about $528 per year. And I'll tell you

why I'm on the fence. I um once again,

first time owning a home, I'm not too fond of the escrow. Um I'm I'm new to

all this real estate stuff. And when I actually understood what escrow was, um

I was a little bit confused on I'm going to give the bank more of my money to pay my bills for me when I feel I'm competent enough to pay my bills myself.

I already do it with my car insurance, my phone, my gym membership, whatever. I I can pay all my own bills. Um, so with

the VA loan, I won't be able to bypass escrow. My loan officer is telling me I can bypass the escrow with the conventional loan. So, I'm uh I'm wanting the conventional for the li liberty of not having escrow, but I'm on the fence because I have a better rate with the VA, but I will have the escrow.

>> That is a lot. Okay. And I'm thinking through it. Um, I'm I'll be honest. I'm not a specialist on either of these. I feel like you would have to have the number. I would have to be able to >> I would >> compare it to something else. I Yeah.

And me for me, I'm thinking about the fact that usually we don't recommend VA loans because of the fees that that are associated. I don't know if the numbers that you've gotten have uh accounted for

that or not. I know that if you're um

we're are exempt because of disability, those fees go away. I don't know if that's the case for you. So, there's some things in here that I honestly don't have the information to to tell you fully.

>> What's the difference in rates?

>> Uh the difference in rates, I don't have the best credit because I've I've been too davish my whole life. I don't ever borrow money. >> Okay. >> Um so, uh the difference in rates, the conventional is 6% and the VA is 565.

And I guess to

to make my question more simple, I'm sorry it was so complicated, Jade. Okay.

>> Um I I just I cannot get behind escrow.

Am I Am I too weird? Am I Am I too

>> I think it's I think it's the wrong thing to be hung up on. >> I think so, too. >> Are you currently active? You're currently active duty, correct?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And And are you moving around from base to base? Like what's what do you anticipate the next five, six years looking like as far as you moving around? Um, I will probably move from where I'm at right now in December of 2027 and then this house will be a rental and

I'll probably move overseas after this.

>> Don't do it. We get this call all the time from military men and women. First of all, thank you for your service. You're a great American. But let me tell you what we tell them. If you're in the military and you're moving every two years, the house becomes a massive headache at times. And so flipping that all the time with you going overseas, your current situation, I would not get into the landlord business. certainly when I'm overseas. So, I would sit tight, see what the overseas trip looks

like and what that's going to determine before I buy a home. I just wouldn't jump in right now and buy a home. >> Yeah, the escrow is not part of the discussion, by the way. >> Doesn't even matter. Just don't buy a home right now with you moving around so much.

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All right, let's go to Megan in I think this is Oh, this one always gets me.

Hold on. This is really fun. I'm going to say it is Lima. Is it Lima? Ohio. Is

it Lima or Lima? What is it?

>> Is it Lima? >> Oh my gosh. Okay, great. >> I was going with the Peru Peruvian.

>> By the way, sorry to the team in the control room. They were like, "Is Ken's meds wearing off? Is he melting down right now?" Uh, I was trying Megan so hard. I No, no, it's okay. We like to laugh here. Lima. Okay, great. I like to be phonetically strong.

>> Well, in Peru it's Lima, but I guess it's >> in Ohio it's Lima. Yeah.

>> Yeah. All right, Megan. There's a rushi in Ohio, but it's spelled like Russia.

>> And they call it Rooi.

>> Yeah. >> Well, how about this? When I lived in Kansas, there is a city that was spelled like Arkansas City and it was called our Kansas. >> Oh, that's so irritating. >> It was called our Kansas City.

>> Let me give you one here in Tennessee, and I think they do this in Georgia as well. It's Lafayette.

>> Oh. >> The leg legendary French general.

>> Uhhuh. who France loaned to America and

as a result he was a hero and there are Lafayette towns and counties all over

America except for in Tennessee and Georgia they call it >> laet >> oh somebody punched me right in the neck

>> well nothing hurts more than Murphreey'sboro Murphrey not Murphy sorry Megan we're

getting all we're GOING OFF WE'RE GOING OFF the rails >> Megan so sorry We're really It's like group therapy with you. It's very exciting. How can we help you today?

>> My parents are in their late60s and they have done nothing to prepare for retirement. They say they're just going to work until they die because they just see no point in ever slowing down to the point that they don't have any documentation. Like their will is from before I was born and I'm in my late 30s. Um so how do I guide them? because

I've tried signing them up for classes, tried getting them set up with lawyer to try to get documents in place and every time it just falls apart.

>> Are they asking for your help or are you volunteering it?

>> Volunteering it cuz I don't want to be set up to have to deal with all of it when they die. >> Oh man. Oh man, Megan, I get it. First off, I I feel your pain.

The hard part about this is, and Kin knows, when someone's not asking and you're, you know, you're breaking your neck trying to do it for them and help them, they don't want it. They don't care. They It is not important to them. And it is important to you.

It should be.

Now, I don't know if you've had this

conversation with them, which is, "Hey guys, I know you haven't asked for my help, and I'm sorry if it feels like I am kind of encroaching on your privacy here, but here's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about the fact that I'm 30 years old. I have x amount of dollars and x amount of obligations. Um,

it's none of my business, but I I have the information right now, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, that you're really not too concerned with retirement.

You have the right not to be, but I am.

And the reason why I am is because if I look up and you're 80 years old and somebody needs care or somebody needs this, I'm realizing that all that's going to fall on me. And that's what I'm concerned about. Is there a plan that I don't know about that you guys can tell me about? That's the conversation I'd be having instead of jumping straight to

>> let me help you with budgeting.

>> And I've had some of that conversation with them and it's always kind of the same of like, well, we'll get to it later. We have to grow our business. We have to focus on this. You know, like they'll come up with a thousand different kind of excuses on why they're never going to work on that.

>> And then you can say and then you can say, "Okay, well, I'm just that's fine.

But I do want to let you guys know so that you know if there's no money there, if we look up and you're 80 and there's no money there, I can't help. I can't.

And then you can let them know that and say, "So

you if you're on Medicaid, >> the opposite. They have a ton of money.

They're worth a lot." >> Okay. >> And they don't want to. And my mom will make like a comment of like, "Well, when I die, you're not going to get any of my half of the estate. It's all going to be a scholarship cuz I want everyone to remember me for forever." My dad will be like, "No." And then that'll be the end of the conversation.

Like it'll be like, "That's as much as you're going to get." Does that make sense?

>> It's more concerned of like not doing what they wanted if it had certain things they wanted. Like if my mom wants a scholarship in her honor, I how am I supposed to know what scholarship you want? then she'll leave instructions.

And if she doesn't leave instructions, to Jay's point, uh this I got to tell you, this changed everything for me here in this conversation. Your mom is a treat to make a statement like that. And then and then your dad your dad just kind of does the whole Okay. And that

says a lot to me that I'm not sure the scholarship has been outlined. I think your dad just is blowing her off in a very, you know, sort of, oh, let's change the subject kind of way. You don't need to worry about this. I I got to tell you >> and and by the way, the more you keep bringing it up, it could be to your disadvantage, if you know what I'm saying.

You're like the little fruit fly, you know. And by the way, this this whole call is a little close to home for me because Megan, we had fun at the start of this call. I'll let you in on this.

two years worth of frustration for me.

I've been trying to talk Jade into doing a duet with me on a live event stage and it's the same thing. She doesn't want to hear that because every time I bring it up. So, it's like what I'm doing to Jade and trying to sing with her. >> It's cuz you want to be Sher and I'm trying to tell you I should be Sher.

>> See, it's not going anywhere. And and see, I keep telling her I want to do a duet. It'll be great. It'll be great. I tell her why. I talk about my soft baritone. Nothing. She's not interested in singing with me on a stage. So, like your mom and dad, it's the same thing. They just aren't interested in your input. So, you got to learn. I got to walk away. It's just not going to happen. And I've had to deal with it.

I'm I'm currently processing it. But it was it was a little too soon, but I thought it was a good metaphor.

>> I'm ready whenever you are, Ken.

me. >> Should I explain to all people who don't get sarcasm that I'm being completely and utterly sarcastic? They know.

>> Okay, good. >> I would never try to sing next to you ever. Like even in the car >> really >> with the radio up. >> We should do an episode of on front row

seat, >> right? >> And like >> some type of carpool karaoke.

>> No, I it I I just would have to I would have to practice forever. You're just too darn good. >> Too darn good. Um Okay, let's talk for a second because I think this is a bigger issue I want to get to.

>> Family.

Whether it is, and I'm going to I'm not going to go specific. I'm going to tee you up here. Uh, it could be loaning money. We say don't loan money, right?

It could be this kind of pressure here, the will and blah blah blah. You know, there just has got to be some kind of basic read the room when you're dealing with family and money. Yes or no?

>> Um, >> because you just don't have the influence you want, especially up the ladder to parents. Your parents are aging. They become the children. You become the parent. Mhm. >> At some point though, there's got to be some boundary that you put in place for your mental and emotional health. True or false? >> True. Boundaries are life. I I'm saying

this cuz I have my own personal journeys happening, >> right? >> And let me just say when folks call in with these questions, I feel like I'm in a whole other headsp space on it now cuz it it hits. And the the thing is, yes, you need boundaries. you and it's not

like boundaries there to like keep people out and all. It's just for everybody to be operating in their most healthy space. And that's the thing that you have to tell yourself and that I tell myself is is not to be mean or to keep somebody at bay. It's keep everybody in their most healthy space.

I'm talking to myself right now, >> right? Because okay and without getting into your personal stuff it's it's like there are times where it's like I have to put a boundary on me because if I say something and it gets completely ignored that puts me in a bad place right when your intentions are good. Yeah. >> That's a boundary. You go I want to protect myself by not saying anything.

>> Yes. >> You know that's the battle.

>> And then too you also have to ask yourself why am I even getting there's sometimes where it's like you're getting involved. Why are you even getting involved? Did anybody ask you which is what I said to Megan? Obviously, it panned out differently, but if nobody asked you, don't get involved.

>> And here's another thing. So, this is a fun example. And Megan, bless her heart, great heart, okay? She brings it up to mom, and mom hits her back with, "You're not getting any of my money." Well, that's not fun to hear.

>> It's not, but it's also mom's prerogative. >> I know, but it's not brought up. If you don't bring it up, it doesn't >> thrown in your face. That's true.

>> To your point, >> mind your business is what you're saying. >> If Listen, unless they asked you, Megan, we'd like to know what you think. You stay out.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. 888255225

is the phone number. Riley joins us now in Seattle, Washington. Riley, how can we help?

>> Hey there. It's uh time for me to save for a down payment and I use a Ramsay trusted pro who wants me to stop contributing to retirement to get intense about storing cash. Uh this gives me some FOMO about missing uh

compounding and just turning retirement off. Uh do you have any thoughts? I mean, if you're truly on baby step 3B, it's your choice. If you want to do both simultaneously, or if you want to take all of that money

and really hammer the down payment hard for the next two to two and a half years, how what's the horizon? How long is it going to take to save your down payment if you had all the money going towards it?

>> Yeah. So, I could probably do it within a year if I got really intense. And

that's his idea is >> stop doing things at the same time.

>> How long would it take? >> Probably take two years.

>> And what's what do you like are you in a hurry that I must have a house in one year or are you fine to take the two-year route?

>> Um well, what's tough is it's so expensive in Seattle that like waiting seems like prices will just continue to go up. >> So I would like to get intense. Um, I

just kind of need some encouragement to have a year where I don't contribute anything. >> Okay. So, you want to do the year plan.

Uh, yeah. I would just say that at the end of the day, you have to remember these are both investments. So, mentally, we think, oh my gosh, I'm not investing. I'm giving up investing to get this house. And what's helped me and what did help me uh when I was in your shoes is to remember real estate is also an investment and it's uh a forced savings account for your future, right?

So once you buy this house, you're saving up this down payment. All that is doing is creating uh equity for when you buy the house. And so don't think of it

as I'm not investing. Think of it as I'm

kind of diversifying in this way. I've got money going that's going to go to my 401k for retirement and then I'm also investing money into this primary real estate venture. Does that help?

>> Yeah, absolutely. like I'm I'm just instead of investing in one area, I'm doing it in a new area that I'm just not used to. >> That's right. >> And the other thing is is I play around with some numbers and just do real math.

Look at trends in the Seattle market over the last 30 years. What is the percentage? Uh there are people that that that the market has gone up on average over a decade. What are the experts saying? Like right now, I know that I can go online and I can uh get a good guess on what home prices look to

uh be, will they go up in 2026 in my

county? And so if we're talking about 12

months difference, in in other words, if you go all in, pause investing for 12

months, there's an amount of money that you anticipate being able to save.

Correct?

>> Yes. >> Yes. And then if we say, "All right, if I didn't pause investing and I saved

over a 24-month period, what would that amount of money be?" And I think you know what that number is, correct?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So then look at what do I think housing based on the market and whatever

I can look at, how much do I think housing prices are going to be that much different in in the difference of 12 months. I'm just saying I would look at all of this and not be like, "Oh my gosh, you know, it's going up. It's going up." And in in all reality, it's not going to go up as much as you think in two years. So now you're looking at the difference of one year.

So as you're making this decision, I'm just giving you some food for thought. Does make sense?

>> Yeah. And unfortunately for the area, it's like I 200,000 for a down payment

is my goal >> and that is just seems like an insane

amount of money. >> Yeah. >> Um but if I waited and maybe it will be

okay now you need 240,000.

>> Um and these are not uh incredible

homes. It's just the market here, >> right? And then if you think about that 40,000 across those two years, >> you have to ask yourself, okay, is that worth saving 40,000? Is it worth what I would have made investing that extra I

don't know how much you're saving monthly for this? But that's really the equation that you're looking at. The amount that you would be putting towards your down payment monthly instead of investing it, would that money invested outpace what you project to be the

increase in the real estate market?

Now saying that, >> and that's the tough piece because we don't know. >> We don't know. You could you could probably find some realistic projections out there. You could probably find some realistic projections out there.

>> I personally I Jade probably would not nerd out to that extent because there's two things on the line. It's a question of values. You have to go, okay, how much do I value having this house?

What's it going to give me? Is it going to give me stability? It's going to give me a little bit of diversity diversification in my investments because, you know, this is probably not your forever home. At some point, you'll probably sell it and you'll make some money and that sort of thing.

Um, I I'm giving you that equation cuz you might like to nerd out on it. I personally would not. I would just look at this and go, you know what, how quickly do I want to get this done and out of my life? I value doing it faster than I value putting aside the extra money in retirement.

or I just really love the way it feels

to invest this full amount, so I I I'm fine with it. Right. It's totally up to you. There's not a wrong or right answer on this. >> Yeah. Is this your first home?

>> Uh, yes, it will be.

>> And how old are you again?

>> 36. >> 36. Are you single?

>> Yep. >> Okay. Any plans to settle down?

Um I I mean I like my area. Um I could

easily and the biggest thing is the commute. I mean I could afford uh much

more but driving an hour each way would

>> I agree with you on that >> not be very fun. >> By the way, I agree with you on that.

That's a quality of life issue that adds up really quick. My point is is I'm not trying to get into your relationship life, but I am saying if you plan to settle down at some point, that person may have and should have some say in where you're going to live. And at 36 and single, not ready to settle down, doesn't sound like to me, which is fine.

I'm just giving you if I'm sitting in your shoes, I'm probably going to take I'm I'm I'm going to save up more and I'm going to take my time. I'm not going to try to rush in the next 12 months.

that I wouldn't knowing what I know about >> maybe hit my goal but then not purchase right away. >> No, I'm just saying you you're the what you gave us was should I pause my my

retirement investing and go all in and

take that money and put it into baby step 3b. I thought that was the question.

>> Correct. >> And I'm saying in your situation, I would not pause investing. I would just keep investing and keep saving. Yeah.

cuz he's not he's not in a situation where I feel like he needs to rush

to settle down in in a place to live.

He's single. I'm okay with renting in his situation. >> Huh. I'm You know what?

I'm just the opposite. I'm like, if there's not a lovely lady in the picture, it'd be one thing if you're like, "I'm dating someone. We're getting serious." I'd be like, "Ah, wait. You guys can do this together." But if there's no one in the picture, I'd be like, "Let me let me get this house before this real estate market goes up." >> And I You're talking You're talking to a guy who's older and understands the power of that investing.

And I'm just like, I wouldn't rush to buy if I were you.

>> Two different opinions. >> So, you get to do what you want. That's right. It's your call, Riley. And you're a smart guy. You're doing the right thing. Love the question. Do what feels best for you on this. You're not going to screw it up. >> That's right. >> Yeah.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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a tremendous resource in a really scary,

scary, and sometimes very, very uh frustrating area of our lives. So, there you go. Let's go to Grace now in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Grace, how can we help

today? >> Hi. Um, I was wondering if like you guys

have any advice on how like a young person can like get a good good paying

job without a college degree.

>> I have lots and lots to say about it.

Let's talk about your your specific situation. Tell me how old you are.

>> I'm 20. >> 20. Are you in school, out of school, not going to do school? What's your story? >> I would want to go to college, but I don't want to go in debt in order to go to college. So, I'm currently just like working for like entry-level jobs.

>> Okay. What are you making?

>> Um, I was making $17 an hour. Like, that was the most I ever made. >> You were You were That says in the past.

What are we making right now?

Um, well, I'm currently trying to get

into the military, but in case I don't,

because I know a lot of people get medically rejected. Okay. >> In case I don't, um, >> you want to fall back.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Just for fun, okay? Like, not holding you to these answers. You don't have to sound right. You don't have to impress us. We're already a big fan of you, Grace. Uh, let's assume you had the degree. say that the money was there and you could get a degree and that degree was going to get you into a career path.

Do you have any ideas, desires for what that answer would be? What is that career path or paths plural?

>> Um, I would like to be in government and

be able to travel.

>> Government and travel. Tell me more about this government job. Just give me the ideal job. Ken, this is what my days would look like. What would you be doing?

my days or like the exact job title?

>> No, no. What you be doing during the day? Forget job title. I don't care about job title. What would you be doing in the government?

>> Um uh well, I really like the the current

um the current people in government right now. And I would want to like the dream job would be like to be able to have that like some power to be able to

change like bad laws and just like

change laws. >> Okay, got it. So, you're talking about uh you're talking about a legislative job and that's way up the ladder. You gave me the answer. Okay. So, the military situation uh when are we going to find out about that? What's our timeline?

Um, well, I'm going to boot camp tomorrow, so I'll probably find out within a week or two. >> Oh, so you're already in?

>> Yes, but I'm asking like for other people like because a lot of people get medically rejected from the military and there's still a chance that I could. So that's why I was really curious like how you guys advise people like if they have like >> um like if they want to get like a good paying like a a >> influential job like how they can go about that without going into debt.

>> I'm not going to answer it on influential because that's very subjective. U but if if for some reason you get medically rejected, you don't cut it in boot camp. Um what we're going to do is if we don't have any money to get qualified in college then we look at

can I get qualified to do a variety of

different things. The answer to that is yes. So we really want to start with what is it that I would like to do and the answer to what is it that you would like to do should always come back to what are you good at doing right? So what are what are the skills and talents you have?

Now here's the deal. I'm going to gift you this so you don't have to go through this long answer. I'm going to give you my book find the work you're wired to do.

assessment measures what Grace is good at. That's your talent and skills. What Grace really loves to do. We call that passion. That's work you really look forward. It's a task or a function or a role. And then we're going to look at what motivates Grace. What's her missional result in life? is what gets her up in the morning to put out into the world. That's a result from work. So the the assessment will do that for you.

But the answer to your fallback is I'm going to look at my assessment. I'm look at what I'm good at doing and now I know what types of jobs that I can go get or I can learn. And I could go through a training program. I could go to uh some type of a a boot camp if it's technology

related. Um if it's a trade, I can go to

trade school. You still tracking with me? Yeah, >> there you go. So, we figure out what is the work I can do because I've got some raw raw talent. And then what's the work I want to do? Because I know that I love getting up every day and maybe I like doing process work. Maybe I like doing people work. Maybe I like working with objects.

Maybe I like ideulating and creating from my head. Those are the four types of work. Idea work, people work, process work, and object work. And so again, this assessment will help you.

But as you begin to figure out what kind of work I would like to do and do I have the requisite talent with training now we've got some answers and now we look at okay what is it going to take for me to get into that and most of the time you're going to find you don't need a college degree that you can work your way into that. So let's see how the military thing plays out and here's the good news for you. You make it through boot camp, you stick it out, you're going to now have the GI bill.

You're familiar with that?

>> Yes. >> And now Grace can do >> Yeah. Now Grace can do whatever she wants after she pays, you know, uh, pay

serves her time rather. So, uh, really excited for you. Do you have some medical condition that you don't need to share with us, but are you is there something going on with you to where you think it's a good chance you may not make it through boot camp?

>> No, but I mean, I just wanted to have

like backup plan.

>> I want to bring Jade in because she's she's got a lot of wisdom here. I want you to weigh in on the mindset and anything tactical that you think she might do as she walks into this very intense season that I think she's going to make it through. But what if she doesn't? >> You talking about the boot camp specifically?

>> Yeah. What do you want to add to this? What would she do? Oh boy.

>> What's her fault? What would you add to what I said? Anything you want to add? >> I mean I you covered the career front like cover to cover.

I don't have anything to add there. Are we talking about going into the boot camp like what to experience? >> No, I'm saying if she doesn't make it >> Yes. >> which we don't want to focus on that, but since she asked >> Yeah.

There's no reason. >> What would you say to her if she doesn't make it for some reason? Forget the career front. What would you say to her mindset wise, emotionally?

>> I would say, oh, okay. I would say, you know, sometimes when things don't go the way we want them to go, we're thinking it's some like we automatically think it's a negative. Like, if I don't get the job, it was a loss.

jobs, it's a demotion. And I would say to flip that around and if something doesn't happen, it's cuz it wasn't supposed to happen, which means there's the other successful piece that's out there waiting for you to just find it.

And it's likely better than what you

were initially planning for. That's why the other thing didn't work out. >> Yeah. What branch do you mind if I ask what branch you're going into?

>> Sure. The Navy. >> Come on. My grandfathers were both in the Navy. I'm partial. >> Navy. >> There we go. I think that's fantastic.

Congratulations. Can we just say congratulations on on you being selected? You're going into one of the great organizations in the world, United States Navy. You're going to learn so much. Uh, and you're gonna come out of this thing uh, a lot tougher sounds like after boot camp. I don't know what boot camp's like in the Navy. Is boot camp in the Navy as hard as it is in the Marines? >> I don't know. >> No, it's not.

>> No, not at all. I don't think at least.

>> Good for you. I think you're going to crush it. Hey, we're rooting for you here. >> Yeah, >> we're rooting for you. >> Yeah. So, hang on the line. U, my gift to you, your boot camp is find the work

you're wired to do. And um also Christian, let's get her my other bestselling book, From Paycheck to Purpose, which is the seven stages of

doing work that you were absolutely created to do. Very proud of the those stages. That'll be helpful after you after you read the first book and take the assessment. And uh thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. I don't know if I could do well in the Navy, Jade. You know why?

The deep sea. I'm afraid I'd be like raling over the edge of the boat. Get your sea legs. >> Would I? >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Heat. Heat. N.

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It's not available in all states. >> All righty then. Today's question comes from Aaron in Kansas. He says, "Would there ever be a time where you wouldn't pay tithes in order to get yourself out of a bad financial situation? I'm doing okay, except I was dumb and bought a condo I couldn't afford. Now I'm in a situation where it's hard to pay my tithe, and I'm just curious as to your thoughts on how to juggle generosity and getting out of debt." Uh, I love this question. There's a couple facets to it.

I'll try to hit all of them. First off, for anybody listening, tithe, if you're um if you're a Christ follower, um one

of the practices is uh you give 10% of

what you earn back to your church in order for that to be used for, you know, missions or building the church or what have you. That's that's a practice that um many Christ followers do.

So that being said, here at Ramsey, we would say giving that type of generosity, any type of generosity, including things like tithe, should be at the top of your list, the top of your budget as a practice all the time. Uh

that's my personal stance on it as well.

That being said, um from a debt payoff

perspective, I always like to remind people that it's your choice. I personally would always give. It's just a personal conviction that I have. And if you do want to get into the spiritual part of it, you know, that's between you and God. I don't think that he's going to like strike you with lightning if you don't give. And I also believe that your heart should be in the right place to give to be a cheerful giver giving out of willingness. Um, and it sounds like

at this point you're not sure if you're willing to give this money. And that's something that you can kind of wrestle through on your own. I'm not going to sit here and tell you yes or no. I can tell you what I would do, which I I would continue to give and I did. When Sam and I were going through our debt payoff, 460,000, money was so tight and every every every cent counted. But for me, my personal perspective was um you can't outgive

God. And when you do give, you receive back. That's what scripture tells us is that um when you give and it shall be given, pressed down, shaken together, running over, it will flow back to you.

Um and so I believe that. And I believe that not just in a monetary sense, but you can receive that back with peace.

You can receive that back with favor, open doors, all of these different things. And so for me personally, it was something that I felt like if I didn't do, I was only cheating myself is kind

of the way I I viewed it and Sam viewed it. So that's up to you to kind of

decipher. That's just my take. Um, I

really want to look at this condo that you can't afford because what I'm really just seeing here is less of a tithe issue and more of a sustainability issue because what's the solution for this condo that's outside of your budgetary

range? That's that's my question. So, I'd really be trying to get that right side it right sized and right side up.

Um, and that's the bigger play here, I think, than um if you miss a month of tithe. >> Well, and and and here's the reality. My guess is not having his budget in front of us that if the tithe payment >> makes enough room to him to pay the he's got bigger problems, too. It's not just the tithe issue.

We're running way too tight. And I think you're right. Very astute on that. Thank you for the question.

Let's now go. This is kind of fun. We've got Jade in studio with me, but we're going here in our neighborhood right in Nashville, Tennessee, where Jade >> is on the line.

>> Hi. Um, thank you for having me.

>> Sure. >> So, I'm trying to decide. I'm thinking about selling my house. I bought it when I was 22. I'm 34 right now, so I do have

a lot of equity, but the house is pretty old. It was built like in 1965.

So, I'm coming up to like having a lot of issues as far as repairs with the house. and it's kind of it's just weighing on me financially to where it's causing me to be behind on other things because of you know the repairs and

stuff. I am a single woman with two kids

and um I'm thinking about selling just

to get a fresh start, a new start. But with me selling um the house, I was going to try to use that money that I make from selling the house to put down towards a new house and probably like consolidate some of my bills.

>> Okay. >> And I don't know. >> Well, tell us about the house. What What do you owe on the home? And then tell us what you think you can get for the home.

>> Um I owe like 63 64,000 on the house.

And um I really don't know how much I

would get. I have been getting a lot of calls all the time and they would say

like 200 something, a little less than 300. So >> Okay. Well, step one is we we want you to go to ramseyolutions.com after this phone call. We want you to look up our real estate page and let's get you with uh let's have you talk to two or three uh of the trusted pros over there.

somebody that knows the Nashville market really well and they're they're affiliated in the way that they know how we want you they them to treat you, they're going to treat you well. Uh you go with the one that you have the best vibe with, make sure that you understand everything. But let's get let's get some real pros, some Ramsay trusted pros out there to tell you what your house is worth and give you a sense of the market and what you might be able to go to before we ever really decide on this. We need to know that.

You need to know that for sure.

Walk us through that.

>> Um, I have three credit cards, but both

of I mean all three of them is list is one two of them is 800, one is 900. I

just very minimal. Um, I do have school

loan debt. Um, but it's in good standing right now. So, I'm not behind or I don't owe. Um, about like 70,000.

>> Okay. How much do you earn?

>> Um, I make like 59 60,000 a year.

>> What's that? What do you take home every month? What do you see?

>> It varies um based on overtime.

>> Okay. Give me a good Give me a in between a good month and a bad month, what is it?

>> Um, I'll say like a good month for

month. Um, maybe like

4,200.

>> Okay. >> And a bad month, maybe like 3,000.

>> Okay. >> 3500. >> So, here's what I'm hearing. I I have a couple of clarifying questions. One, uh, what is your would you when you mentioned earlier that >> I do have a car note as well.

>> Okay. Tell me about the car.

Um, it just it's I owe like 18,000.

>> Okay. >> On the corner. >> So, when you said earlier that it was tight and it it was it was you know money was tight, was it the monthly payment that's tight or was it when you're thinking about the repairs the was it the repairs that were really what was frustrating you? >> Um, it's just the maintenance cuz continue like for me my kids just continue living here. I would have to keep investing into the house as far as

repairing things >> like things like what? Like a roof, >> AC unit. >> I just recently, yes, that's down currently right now.

>> Um I just recently um fixed a leak in my

house. >> Okay. >> On my roof. And I have another one, but it's on the back side of the house, so I haven't dealt with that really.

>> Um >> Okay. A lot of things. These are higher ticket higher ticket items is what it sounds like. Um Ken is right. I would want to get real numbers around selling the place. Um I also want you to have

some clarity around your numbers. It feels like they're they're kind of a guess right now. And I have a sense that if you had them in a budget, you could make a plan that could possibly really really help you. Um

do you have a budget?

>> I do.

Um, it's probably not the best, but I do have a budget. I'm like still figuring it out. >> Well, we're going to send you a better budget. We're going to send you a copy of every dollar and and give you a subscription for a year so that you can use it so that you can find out what your margin is cuz what it might, Jade, just be you needing to get and see how

much margin do I have? What would it take for me to cut back a little bit and save up to do some of these repairs? I'm not convinced right away that it's time to sell. Um, but the margin the the

budget's going to tell you. If you're looking at it and you're in the redmost months, then that'd be an indicator. But if you're looking at it and you're finding a couple hundred of margin and you're realizing, man, I could be paying more towards these credit cards and clear those out, I might be interested in seeing this through. As long as that mortgage is no more than 25% of that 4,200 every month.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

Our

scripture of the day comes from 1 Peter 1 verse 6. So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead. Even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan. The future doesn't belong to the faint-hearted. It belongs to the brave.

Oh, I see what they did there. that uh that uh crypto commercial with Matt Damon tried to borrow a little bit of that fortune favors the bold. You remember that? I wonder if they were borrowing from this Reagan quote. I just wonder. >> You might be right. >> I just wonder. Jennifer is up in San Francisco. Jennifer, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh thank you for taking my call. I So I have a question. I am super new to the Ramsay Baby Steps. Um and I have kind of a unique situation. Um, I since

I'm now on this track um and trying to

solidify being practicing financial literacy, I have a 17-year-old son and I want to make sure that he doesn't struggle with

the lack of knowledge for financial literacy that I did growing up. So, how transparent should I be in communicating

my mistakes uh to help him make that

foundation starting now using Ramsey principles? >> Well, I'm just curious. Let's just say that u he's in the room and you're asking me like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Share the mistakes you really love your son to know about. What would those mistakes be?" Um well when I was little I or well I guess you know young getting turned into the world I didn't understand about budgeting. I didn't know you know the

importance of you know making sure that you you know knowing where every cent of

your money went um with it and it caused

struggles. >> Okay. Um, you know, thankfully now I've worked my way into uh, you know, a fantastic career. Um, and now kind of

seeing the, oh, you know, I can, I still

have time to correct the mistakes that I made. >> Um, but my most important aspect is

making sure that, you know, as a parent, you want better for your child.

>> Yeah. >> Um, >> I, you know, look, I love that answer.

>> Not to be as open. >> Yeah. Well, I don't think you have to.

Um, so my kids I of course I have a

unique situation and my kids roll their eyes every time they see me on a video or anything like that, but you know I talk to them about the the big picture financial stuff obviously in my role here. Um, but my wife and I don't we don't let them see our budget. We're not we're not opening up the uh that's just something they can't handle nor do they need to know. However, the reason I asked you that first question, I'm sure that you could say if I was in a room with you and we were whiteboarding your biggest financial mistakes.

You said the budget, you didn't budget. You didn't know how to budget.

You probably at some point accumulated some debt. I would talk about those big mistakes and just keep it that simple

and then and then come alongside of him after you talk about, you know what, I wish someone had talked to me about budgeting. Now, I use this thing called every dollar. Let me explain the concept of the budget, right? And you and you

walk them through it. You go, here's why. But I think kids will listen to our pain more than they will our advice. And I know that there have been a handful of times, Jade, I want to bring you in on this where I have had some moments with all three of my kids different times where I realized in talking about dumb

things that I did, failures that I had

made. They locked in and asked lots of questions. And it started with just pure curiosity. I kind of want to know how dad screwed up because he might be the

idiot that I think he is.

>> And in talking about my failures, I was

then and only then able to and most of

the time they'll ask questions and I was

able to give some insight into how to avoid that for themselves. Uh I I think that's the easiest way to go. Jade, I want you to weigh in on this because I think you get some great insight. >> I I honestly Ken, I think you got it.

Your kids are older than mine. Mine are five and seven and so we're very low on

the the sharing category at this point.

But I I agree with Ken. I mean I I'm just thinking back to the things that I remember that my own parents taught me and a lot of it was that sort of thing.

Don't make the mistake I did. Do this instead. Um I think that's there's just a relatable quality there that >> um young adults want to see. They want to see that they're not alone and that you were once thinking some of the same thoughts they're thinking. >> Yeah. Does he have his own job?

>> He just got his first job right after he got his driver's license.

>> Great. You know what I think is also the greatest teacher is to let him let him make some mistakes and then you be there to go, "Hey," and not correct him. It's going to be very hard, Mom. Especially a 17-year-old boy who's now distancing himself from you. I'm sure you're already seeing it. And and it's a little

I think we're about as close as I could expect to be for having a 17-year-old son >> and I'm just telling you having walked through I'm just telling you if Stacy were on the air with you right now there were things and again every situation's different but they naturally push away from you and if he makes some mistakes with his own money Jennifer your posture needs to be oh buddy I'm so sorry about that I did something like that like no I

told you so or you can't do that it's got to be oh Oh, that stinks. I did

that. Oh, man. I blew that so many times. Hey, you want my thoughts on how do you avoid that? He's going to need that approach. But I think one of the things we do as parents sometimes is we hover way too much, especially with teenagers as opposed to uh be available.

Not hover, but be available when they blow it and in the right posture. And I think that's probably the best thing you can do. Thank you for the call. I love that. >> It's like a good salesperson. You want them Yeah. you have to be like far enough away that you're not annoying them, but if they need you, they can just >> Yeah. What's the old phrase? Um, when the student is ready, the teacher appears kind of a thing.

>> And I think with parenting, that's one of the things that I'm It was so stinking hard. And I'm still in the middle of, you know, I got a 20, an 18, and a 17.

>> But, you know, I still don't do that well. But I found that when I can just chill out, >> they come to you. It's like getting a little birdie to come to you. >> 100%. They come to us and they're like I'm like oh. And I'm learning to just be

like my good friend Les Perro taught me this. He's a worldrenowned psychologist.

Like just immediately empathize.

>> Yeah. >> First thing is oh man that stinks.

That's got to feel awful and just like

sit in it instead of clean it up.

>> I'm going to remember this. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to put I'm tucking this in my back pocket. >> The parental tendencies to come in and clean up the mess. Oh, you're sitting in your own dookie. Let's get that all cleaned up instead of letting them sit in it and go, "Oh, that's awful, isn't it?" >> Yeah. >> It's pretty Oh, I feel so bad. You're sitting in that. How did we get there?

What happened? >> Yeah. >> And boy, it's so hard to do that, right?

Like, what happened? Let him describe how they got in that situation.

>> Crazy. All right, let's go to Sean. See if we can help Shawn out on the tales of that call. Sean, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you for having me.

>> Hey, I'm glad to have you. Listen, I'm putting you on the spot. We've got about 2 minutes, so you can hit us with what we can help with quick.

>> Okay. I'm new to making a budget. Never made one before. Maybe it's bad timing on my end here, but I'm going through a career change. New job starts next month, as well as having a child in 3 months. >> Yikes. >> Um, so having a hard time trying to figure out a budget. Uh, my income is irregular. I work in sales and then I'm also in the Army Reserve and so that income is also different monthtomonth.

>> Okay, you're in good hands with Jade.

>> All right. So, what I would do, I would start out by saying what what what's the worst month I could possibly have moneywise with the Armor Reserve? What's the least they could pay me? And with my sales job, like what's that base salary that I know I'm going to get?

And I would start there because you truly don't know. It's a new sales job. You don't know what you're going to make. You don't know if you're going to knock it out of the park or if it's going to be a struggle for you.

So, I would start with that lowest amount. And that way, I kind of have a sense of this is the least I could make. And then from there, I'd build the budget and I'd realize, okay, if I have the worst month ever, here's how much in the red I'll be.

Right? And so, just putting having some some real facts to put to this is going to is going to help with any anxiety you have around it. And then, let's say you you do that and you are in the red, I would just kind of have some be formulating some thoughts. Okay, if that happens and I'm $500 in the red, what would I do to fix it?

start thinking about that and then as you start to do the job and you start to figure out, okay, this is the regularity.

But for sales, uh, any irregular income,

small business, if you can create a

cushion, a decent enough cushion that if you know, hey, it t $5,000 to run my my life, I always have a cushion with that $5,000 in it, and I'm kind of pulling from it as needed. And it'll take you some time to build that up, but um for a regular income small business, that really really does help. >> Yeah, love that advice. You can do this.

Uh hang on the line. Let's get him into every dollar. >> Love that. Christian let you start practicing and you will get really good at it. Christian will take care of you.

Thank you, Sean, for the call. All right, folks. There, remember this.

There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 51. Early Money Decisions Shape Your Financial Future | December 31, 2025


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George Kamel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So, take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel joined by my pal and co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, another great show on the Ramsey Network, Rachel Cruze is here [music] with us as well. We're here to answer your calls about life and money. The number is 888-825-5225.

Miguel kicks us off in Dallas, Texas.

What's going on, Miguel?

Hey, George. How you doing? Doing great.

How can we help today?

Yeah, hey. So, um you know, I've been following you guys for quite a bit sometime now. Kind of wish I'd started earlier like most people, but well >> 100% same. here we are. Um you know, I'm

working on on step number six.

Thankfully, but I do have a question because I I listen to Dave say all the time how credit cards

are the devil and they are the worst thing that one person can use. And and I agree with

all of that except um so

a really long time ago, kind of like Dave, I at a very young age I did bankruptcy. And since then I learned to live within my means. Um so,

I've but I've had a lot of credit cards since then. I just paid them off at the end of the of the of the month. I don't have any credit card debt. I haven't had for over 10-15 years now.

>> Good. >> So, my question is um you know, if I pay

off my credit cards at the end of the month and I am using them a lot so that I can get like, you know, free tickets to travel with my family and stuff like that. Uh would you still recommend that I don't do that? If so, why? Or is it okay

for me to continue using my credit cards as long as I pay them off? Well, as of

this recording, it's still a free country. So, you are free to do as you wish, Miguel. And so, if [clears throat] is it okay? Sure.

If it's working for you, go for it. But, the reason you called in, there's something inside you that maybe is thinking is there a better way? Could I be doing better? Could I optimize if I use my own money instead of using someone else's and paying it back every month later on?

Sure, you can make the argument in hypotheticals all day long. But, the the real thing here is you're using it to get free travel.

Did I hear that right?

Yeah, correct. And so, have you actually added up what it would have cost you if you had paid cash, done your own research, found the right flights that worked for your family? Like, okay, I got I got $600 in value out of this and it cost me 200 for the card for the year. Have you done the math on that?

Uh yeah. I mean, it definitely pays off.

Like, for example, last year I took my family to Europe and it I completely

paid for our flight tickets. It was $4,000 worth

uh just with points. I think I had to pay a little bit of taxes >> you spend? on it. >> you said you had to pay it off the balance the next month?

No, no. That that was just paid off with points. >> Okay. You said you owed a little bit still for the flights is what you meant. Okay. Well, yeah. They make you pay like some taxes, but it was like $200 or something like that. >> And then, how much did you have to spend in order to earn that many rewards? That many points?

Uh I don't know. It sounds like a few years of spending.

Yeah, I haven't done the math, but it's probably a couple hundred grand or something like that. >> There we go. Ding ding ding. So, Miguel, the truth [laughter] is you could have saved up four grand out of a few hundred grand that slipped through your hands.

Am I wrong?

Well, okay. So, here's the thing. I use my credit cards for everything.

I believe it. I pay my I pay Yeah, I pay my bills. I pay You know, everything that doesn't charge me a fee for using a credit card.

>> Yeah, a lot of those bills will charge you 3-4% for just running that credit card. If they charge me a fee If they charge me even a penny, I won't use my credit card. So, I don't pay my mortgage or anything like that with my credit cards. But, there are actually a lot of things that I can pay with my credit card. I do my groceries with my credit card, all of my regular spending.

And that adds up to quite a bit, you know, throughout the years. You've impressed Rachel. Rachel, if you could see her face, she is so impressed.

>> [laughter] >> No, she's not. >> sighing. Well, here's the thing, Miguel.

A couple of things. Number one, Sure.

studies have been done and it has been proven mathematically that you do actually end up spending more when you're spending it with a credit card.

And it may just be groceries and all the things, but because there is zero emotional connection to your money, subconsciously, naturally, without it you even realizing it, you end up spending more. So, even with groceries, for instance, we've talked to people on the show and they say, "Oh, I just would use my credit card for the things that we needed, you know, the bills and groceries and gas." And then, we have heard countless times, haven't we, George? People say, "Actually, we ended up going without a credit card for 6 months to see if we could save money and we actually ended up spending less.

We don't even know how that happened." And I'm like, "Well, cuz I know because there's no emotional So, you don't even realize the amount of money that you're actually overspending." So, over years of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on this credit card to get $4,000 of flights, what could have been saved actually may have been even more than 4,000 with the subconscious spending that you're doing and not even realizing it. So, that's one thing. And then, number two, Miguel, like and again, this is a personal kind of conviction for me and it may not be for you.

I'm not saying it has to be for everyone. But, what is what's so frustrating to me and I think because we're in this line of work and George and I talk to people every single day who do have credit card debt. And these banks and this whole debt industry has screwed over the American people. They have.

They have not helped people. They have hurt people. That's why we have a job.

So, off the I mean, it kind of feels like off the backs of people who are struggling and hurting, I don't want a free flight out of that. I have the ability to save up and work hard myself and not have to deal with this industry at all. And there's and I have no bill at the end of the month. You know what I mean? Like, I pay for my groceries.

Sometimes I do Instacart and have them delivered. And then, it's done. And then, I'm done. And I'm like, I don't have to I don't have to play this game with them.

And and so, there's just something so freeing about it. And again, that may not be everyone's conviction, but when I see mass I see banks and I see their bill all the things. >> much. Like, this is crazy.

>> And I'm just like, man, they have Y'all have screwed over people. And people are giving their hard-earned income to these places, to these industries and they're not allowing to be able to help themselves, you know? And so, I'm like, I don't I don't want it. I don't want it.

I will save up. I'm I'm booking a girls' trip actually today. I was telling George I was going to buy us tickets.

one way. Yeah, to get And I'm like, that's fine. I will budget for that.

Like, all day every day. And I don't have to worry about it. So, there there I don't know, Miguel. It's um >> Here's the experiment. This is fun. So, let's say you spent $200,000 to get four, right? That's 2% cash back. Fair?

Yeah. >> Use your debit card for a year and see if you spent 190 grand instead of 200.

Well, that just saved you 10 grand. So, you just gave yourself $10,000 in rewards by not spending more. So, that's

that's the the thing that I can't help you figure out on paper. That's something that you need to explore for yourself. And again, there's the the moral side. I cover eight objections of why people won't stop using their cards in my book Breaking Free from Broke. So, how about this? I'll send you a copy.

You read the chapter and then call me back for a fun discussion.

Yeah. No, look. And then, I I totally agree with you guys as far as Hello? I was going to say, "No, you don't, Miguel." >> Rachel is laughing cuz you don't agree.

>> agree. You're charging those credit cards. >> I totally agree.

We are great. Especially with the part that, you know, there's you know, you don't feel the money coming out of you, you know, when you're using a credit card. Um [music] So, my question is >> I wish we had time for more, Miguel. You you burnt out the clock >> [laughter] >> telling us about all the rewards you got going to Europe, my friend. But, hey, call us back and hang on the line. I'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I think it will enlighten you with all the stats.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But, there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it.

But, if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price, no pressure, no upselling.

and so is my family. So, don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music]

>> Up next, we have Jake in Grand Rapids.

Hi, Jake. Welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you doing? We're doing great. How can we help?

Hi there. Yeah, so I'm fresh out of high school. I don't have any debt. I don't have I've never taken out any loans, and I'm I'm curious that when I start to go look for a house 10 years down the line or whenever, how how will I be able to get a mortgage without having any credit?

Ah, Jake, you are speaking my language. This is one of my favorite questions cuz it feels like a magic trick.

But, the house is the one that gets people. So, that tells me you already know there's a way to do it.

Mhm. Yeah. So, what have you found out in your research so far about how to buy a house without a credit score?

So, I I've heard I've heard like different things, and it it it doesn't really make sense to me. Like, the someone brought up like a manual underwrite, and I I'm I'm not really sure what that is. I I don't really understand what they're what they're talking about. Perfect.

So, when you think about the credit score, this was invented in the '90s, and all it did was make it easier for lenders to kind of do a vibe check on the people they were lending money to, right? So, Jake has a high score, great. He's a reliable borrower. We know Jake's probably going to pay back.

Well, back before credit scores existed, instead of automated underwriting through, you know, computers and AI and credit scores, there was something called manual underwriting where a real person like me sits down, looks at Jake's tax returns, his pay stubs, his previous payment history on his rent and utility bills and insurance, and go, "Oh, okay. Jake's a reliable person. He's going to pay back the money he borrowed." And so, that's all manual underwriting is is instead of relying on a credit score, it relies on a real person to look at your financial documentation.

It's a person. So, manual versus not.

And a lot of mortgage companies, because they're truthfully just lazy, go, "Nah, we don't do that." So, people think, "Wow, I can't get a mortgage without a credit score." But, there's a lot of companies that will do it, and the main one that specializes in this is called Churchill Mortgage. They've been a partner of the Ramsey Show for over three decades now, and those that's who I went through to get my last mortgage without a credit score. And they made it real easy. You'll have to supply things like, you know, 12-month history of your savings and bank accounts, tax return for verification of income, rental payment history.

So, if you've rented an apartment or even from your family, and you have an on-time payment documented every single month, that counts. And then, you know, an alternative trade line like a cell phone bill or insurance bill that you paid regularly. So, if you have all of that, plus you got a solid down payment, you're going to be in good shape.

Got you. All right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Absolutely. So, great. You know what, Jake? I'll throw in George when you give away one of your books >> Yes. >> Breaking Free from Broke, cuz he has a whole chapter or multiple, maybe even. A whole chapter on credit scores specifically. >> But, Jake, you're you're at a great age though to how to take these principles

and actually apply it to your life cuz you're starting adulthood. I mean, like you're you're in it, and so this book is going to be probably the best guide to help you continue to live debt-free.

What does it look like to honestly build wealth in a really healthy, solid way, not in like all these like shortcut ways that I feel like so many people are talking about. >> the noise and confusion and traps out there. And Jake, you've done such a great job. I want to applaud you. If you just continue down this path, you're going to have so much money that credit scores will become irrelevant cuz you don't need to go borrow money for a car loan, right? You're going to be able to pay cash for a used car.

Yeah. So, keep it up, man. That's my encouragement to you. You're doing things the right way. Hang on the line, and Emily will pick up. We'll get you that book. All right. Up next, we have Derek in Salt Lake City. Hi, Derek. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for taking my call today.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, my question is kind of regarding my girlfriend and her her desire to to work or not work, really. Um give you guys a little bit of background. So, she's 26, still in

college, um working on her bachelor's degree, and her parents have a deal with all of their kids that as long as they're in school, they'll pay for all of their college and all of their living expenses until they either graduate or get married. That's a wild situation. >> working on her bachelor's degree, and she's 26. Has she been in since she's 18? She did take a an 18-month service

mission for her church, but other than that, she's been uh full-time school through summer and everything. >> getting a bachelor's still. This isn't like a master's or anything. Nope, this is just her bachelor's degree. >> just stretching it out because she's got mommy and daddy's bank attached? I'm like, "Sweet. Why ever leave school?

I'll be in school till I'm dead." >> [gasps] >> That's that's kind of my fear. So, she does she has two older brothers in the same situation who are 31 and 29.

They're still still working on Yeah, also still in school, never worked.

Hey, parents, let this be your memo. Don't do this ever.

>> Derek, does she feel like a winner to you? Uh that's No, not at this not at this particular moment. I didn't >> know how long this relationship's going to last cuz, man, I So, that's kind of where I didn't know how bad the situation was. I I like didn't know their work history or anything.

Just recently found out that none of them have worked.

Yeah, I would get some clarity around all of this. Have you shared with her your concern of saying, "Hey, I'm kind of worried that you're just going to stay in school forever because your life's being funded." Have you kind of been honest with her? Yeah, I've been honest with her, and that's why I reached out to you guys cuz we were talking about this, and I I work full-time. I have a a very stable job, and been doing that for a while, debt-free, kind of whole nine yards there, but I asked her to get a a part-time job during the summer and next next semester to to kind of get some financial freedom away from from her her parents.

Cuz hopefully, you have the character to say I'm an adult.

>> [laughter] >> I'm going to start making adult-like decisions, and now it's showing that her character isn't there.

Yeah, that was my my test her to see if she was willing to to put in some effort cuz I want to make things work, but if if I'm expected to take 100% of the financial

burden for the next 50 years, I don't I don't know if I can handle that. Right.

And it's not even like a situation, Derek, where, you know, she's working, and she's like, "Hey, but when I become a mom, I want to be full-time at home, and that I want my job to be that." Right? I want to transfer home and be a full-time mom, but there's no initiative at all in who she is and what always that fear is to me is that that starts to bleed into other areas of your life. You know what I mean? Of like this procrastination Just apathy.

apathy or laziness or like I don't know what it is, but I'm like, man, yeah, it's just not very it's not a lot of attractive qualities that come out of that. And I'm not saying that she needs to like go be some corporate woman climbing the ladder and working 80 hours a week. It's not even that, but it's just like, yeah, I want the dignity to have my own money. I'm 26.

I've been in school for what? 8 years? >> know how you drag out a bachelor's degree for 8 years. That's honestly impressive. [laughter] Is she just taking like part-time classes or like flunking every time?

Uh that's she's she's had to retake a lot of classes where she's Failed? said

she wants to get into like a a master's PhD program, and so she has a 3.8 GPA,

All right, Derek. All right. For those reasons, I'm out. I mean, I'm sure she's a wonderful person, but this is not someone I want to continue down the path with personally based on what you told me.

Cuz what's so hard, Derek, when you get to this point of a relationship and like and George knows this. He's been he's married, and so am I. But, it's like you have the romantic side, right? You you fall in love, they're attractive, you know, you have chemistry.

Like, all of that stuff is great. But, then what ends up kind of where like the rubber meets the road is when real life happens, and it's like I've chosen someone in my life >> a partner in this life. >> Yeah, to walk life with, and life isn't easy.

A little grit. Yeah, and and none of that is coming through right now. In a And I don't want to blame her for her brothers, but the whole family situation A lot of dysfunction here. that a 31-year-old man is still in school.

Like, that's her brother. And that's who you're marrying into, too, Derek. Who's hiring this guy? >> [laughter] >> I see on your resume here you've been in school for 13 years and have yet to get a bachelor's degree. Sure, you get the job. >> Derek. >> I'm so sorry, Derek. This is >> do you think? What What do you think?

>> What's your next step? Uh so, that's my next step was to to

allow her to some time to get a job and if she wasn't willing to work, you know, 15 20 hours a week, it was kind of the end. I think I think that's fair. I Yeah, I don't think that's unreasonable and you're not, you know, looking for her to make 100, you know, it's like, "Oh, well, she's not making 100,000 a year. She's not You know, it's nothing to do with that.

It's just the effort as a human and an adult in the world today.

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>> [music]

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walking you through the Ramsey plan and it has so many advanced features to really help you make progress faster, it makes things convenient and easy to see and it's incredible. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So, there's this big questionnaire you go through and there's recommendations on what to do with your current situation and it is incredible. So, start EveryDollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or on Google Play.

All right, up next we have Gabe in Kansas City. Hi, Gabe. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? We're doing great.

How can we help? Yeah, um so, how do I stop spending

everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself? Oh, interesting. What are you spending money on? Well, honestly, um mostly DoorDash, um

but then just random stuff. Like I always find a way, no matter how much money comes in the paycheck, to spend it all.

It's fair. Love will find a way. Have you thought about [laughter] uh like deleting the DoorDash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

Yeah, well, I actually did I did that like 2 days ago.

Um and like you said, love will find a way. It's just like a creeping addiction, you know? It's like >> see like the zucchini you bought 3 days ago and you're like, "Ah, DoorDash sounds better. I'm redownloading it." Uh yeah. Like going back to an abusive ex.

Two of zucchini? Why don't you at least say like Well, we all aspirational grocery shop, you know what I mean? We're like, "You know what? I'm going to eat a zucchini." >> to eat a whole bag of spinach.

>> a good Instagram air fryer zucchini recipe. I'm going to, you know, >> of spinach. >> Well, Gabe, here's the thing. What are your financial goals? Cuz I think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to a fuel your love of DoorDash to stop that.

Yeah. Well, first is get a car, then

after that a house, and then after that crack the million mark in net worth.

Love it. Those are great goals. >> Okay. That's the American dream summed up. What are you doing for a living right now? Uh right now it's not good. I'm actually um working for the master. I feed I DoorDash a lot from my paycheck.

Wait, what? >> [laughter] >> Well, no wonder it's easy cuz you're around it all the time. Like this Taco Bell Wait, do you drive for DoorDash?

Yeah. >> Okay, you're not working for like DoorDash corporate. You're like a No, he's a DoorDasher. He's Okay, how old are you? >> food for people.

Yeah. How old are you? >> I'm 20. You're 20, okay. Are you in school? Did you not go to college? What happened? Yeah, well, I'm in school for business management right now.

Okay, what do you want to do with that?

Well, um ideally, you know, um you get a short-term management job

to kind of build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and try my hand at the entrepreneur preneurial I I can't talk.

>> Yeah, no, you're good. So, you want to work in management of something. Like is it retail? Is it corporate? Have you sort of drilled down into that to what you'd be most into?

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously, if someone offers me a job paying more than DoorDash, then I'll take it at this point. Have Okay, how much longer in school? >> Yeah. When do you graduate?

Uh I'm expecting next summer.

Okay. Cash flowing it or are you going to debt? I'm cash flowing it. Great. Do you have any debt?

I have $200 in credit cards. Okay. We

got that. It's good. Um okay, Gabe. You know what? I'm going to say you're I'd say you're a typical 20-year-old guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think you need a little bit of motivation. Um and I think when you're in school, you have a part-time job, um you know, you got [clears throat] to just float your expenses. So, I mean, are you living at home? How What What are you doing like for rent and all of that?

Yeah, no, right now I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help the spending. Yeah, well, it's fine. I mean, you're in college, so I think that's totally appropriate. Um so, do you What do you have to pay for? What are the things that are you're responsible for?

Uh right now it's just my phone and gas.

Phone and gas, okay. And what are you making every month?

Uh it actually it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month. Okay.

Okay. Cuz if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas. >> And because you're a full-time college student. So, you're in college You're You're in college.

Um which I don't think it's bad. >> Yeah, that's great. You're in college. You're You're doing well in your classes.

You're going to graduate on time.

And so, you can do this You can even automate some of this. I don't always recommend that for people cuz I kind of like people's behavior to change cuz they're actually the ones doing it. But for you, I would almost say, "Yeah, make Make it a goal where you save, you know,

half of that. Maybe you save What if you save $1,000 a month? Cuz how much is your phone and gas cost?" Not much. It usually shakes out to around three, four hundred. Okay. So, yeah, what if you gave yourself 600

bucks to spend on how you want and then

save half of your income. And you do that for the next, golly, 6 months, you'd have $6,000 when you graduate.

That'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving. But But you can even go in and automate some of this.

Like you can, you know, set up some systems in place with online banking and that kind of thing that when your paycheck hits, Um like pay yourself first. >> Yeah, absolutely. I'd be giving some too. I think there there's a practice of generosity in there. Give um you know, it's ever how much you want, but even 200 bucks a month.

Practice that part, practice the saving part, and then you can still enjoy some of it. So, I think you're in a good spot. I think it's just the habits and the routines uh month to month that you need to change. When you kind of get those in place, you start to be disciplined, you start to know what you're doing, you're telling your money what to do, and then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a $2,000 a month um to maybe a $5,000, $6,000 a month salary and, you know, you've you've changed the way that you handle your money.

Okay. I was exactly like you, Gabe. I'm looking back at when I was >> You were not that much of a spender.

>> No, I But when I was living at home, I was working at the Apple Store. >> Yeah. And every paycheck would just go to like gear and just spend I didn't have I wasn't saving any of it.

>> Well, because there's no urgency. So, it makes sense. >> so, I just I remember feeling that way, Gabe, and what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house. I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school, and that sort of put a new pep in my step to go, "Listen, Mom's not going to save you with her home-cooked meals.

>> Do you I don't think he should move out though. Do you think he's in college? >> saying once he graduates though, he needs to just go ahead and find an actual job. >> like >> Don't stick around home saying, "Well, I could save up for a house faster." And then all of a sudden you spent 500 bucks on DoorDash every month.

>> That's right. Yeah. So, when you graduate, you need to move out. That needs to Like create some problems for yourself cuz we are wired to solve problems and right now, you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing, but if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you kind of need to have some some uh you know, some mojo.

>> [laughter] >> Uh Gabe, what kind of car do you have right now?

Well, right now I don't have anything.

I'm driving my dad's for DoorDash. Oh.

Whoa. How does he feel about that?

He feels fine about it because he does it part-time, too. So, you know, he doesn't really mind. Okay.

Well, I would make that a goal then. I think that's a great You said that, but I would re Yeah, I would reiterate.

Yeah, if you say And if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, I mean, you could have a $6,000 car in 6 months. You know what I mean? Like it Do you have a high-yield savings account, Gabe?

Yeah, I do.

I'm shopping around for another one cuz I'm not a fan of the one I have.

>> Perfect. We got just the one for you. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They just created a new bundle for our fans. It's got a great high-yield savings account, so you can actually attach your checking and savings and then start to automate that thousand bucks a month just go straight from checking into that high-yield savings.

And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed. So, pretend you make a thousand bucks a month and now we have to work live off of that. That helped retrain my brain as well.

Okay. Yeah, make sure to check that out and you'll get the Ramsey debit card with that bundle.

And it says debt is normal, be weird.

You're not deeply in debt, Gabe, but at least you kind of get that reminder.

Yeah, every time you see >> Especially as you enter adulthood, it's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, take out the personal loan, whatever it is. And so, this will help you avoid that temptation. But >> Yep, for sure. This is very natural.

You're 20. You're not weird. You're just 20. >> Yep, just put some disciplines and new habits in place. I think you're going to be fine. But [music] George Camel is a spender. What can I say? Left to my own devices with Mama Camel cooking at home.

>> Unbelievable. I'm spending every $16 an hour [music] I make.

>> [music]

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Today's question comes from Mason in Michigan. Is Dave's stance to only buy a cell phone in cash or is he okay with putting it on an installment plan with a cell phone provider over two or three years?

Couldn't tell you Dave's stance. I could guess Dave's stance, but we can give you George and Rachel's stance at least. I don't want to put words in the guy's mouth. He's not here to defend himself.

Uh but the simple answer is yes, only

buy a cell phone in cash. An installment plan is effectively debt because you have to finish paying off the phone before you actually own it. And you're also locked into this contract for two or three years. So, if anything happens, you want to switch, you want to change phones, well, you're kind of stuck in these handcuffs with that cell phone provider. And so, I always recommend buying a phone in cash. And if you can't afford the brand new iPhone 16 Pro Max

with 512 GB, then don't buy it. You can

buy a used phone. In fact, I just sold a used phone online within a day. I got great money for it.

>> And you were laughing at some guy's phone in the lobby. It was like an iPhone 6. It was so vintage. It had the one lonely little [laughter] lens. We were taking pictures and George I never even noticed that stuff. George is like the Apple guy. He's like, "Hey, is that the Is that the iPhone model four or whatever?" >> Apple Store employee, as you can tell.

>> the guy in the lobby with the with the phone, he's doing great. >> He's thriving. >> a great life. >> Thriving.

>> He's fine. So, you can buy a cheaper phone if you need to. All's going to be okay. >> I feel like these installment plans also have caused like cell phone inflation cuz the cell phone companies like, "We can charge whatever.

They'll just put it on payments." >> Yes. >> So, it's part of the problem and it causes you to get into a cycle where you're It's like a gateway drug to other payments.

They promise 0% too. Well, and the thing always is when you get stuck in a system where you have to you're locked in and you cannot get out, that's not fun. Like that's not that's not what you want to do. So, that's essentially what debt is and essentially when the what these kind of plans are. So. That's the simplest answer. >> Good question. All right. >> hope he's buying an iPhone.

Don't be an Android guy. Oh, come on, George. I'm not an elitist. Such a judgmental. Do you know I had an Android? Did you? Yeah, I had a BlackBerry. This is back in like 20

2007 or something, but it was a BlackBerry. >> That doesn't count, does it? >> And then an Android.

Oh, >> [laughter] >> that doesn't count. I'm giving you my my cell phone. I was I was a Nokia user and

then a BlackBerry and then an Android for two years and I swore I would never get an iPhone. I don't know why. I didn't like them. I didn't like the people that had them. There we go.

That's the real answer. >> like 2010. And now you've changed. Now you are that person. >> Now I'm that person and I've been that person >> I kid. I like to upset the Android people with their green bubbles. I don't need you in the group chat, all right?

That's all I'm saying. All right. Okay, let's go to Lauren in Kansas City. Hi, Lauren. Welcome to the show. Hello, hello, everybody. Hello. How can we help? Okay, so my question is should I take

money out of my savings to start a small business to hopefully, you know, make more money to save more money cuz at this point I think I'm on baby step six.

I just own a three-bedroom condo technically in Branson, Missouri and I'm trying to pay that off as quickly as possible, but I'm literally working 80 hours a week to try to get ahead and I'm killing myself. >> Oh, girl. What are you doing for work and what do you make?

Um well, I am a property manager at a Choice Hotel and well, I make 20 an hour, but so that's not even 40 grand a year. I'm a front desk agent at the Hilton and that's 16 an hour, so I probably make about 34 a year if I'm lucky after taxes. And you're legitimately working two full-time jobs?

Yes. Like right now I'm I'm at the Choice Hotel and then I leave here at 2:30 to work 3:00 to 11:00. What does the growth track look like in the hospitality world where you can make 75K

a year? >> to start a small business is what You want to leave this industry completely?

Uh maybe not completely. I want to do the If the business got busy enough, I would leave the hotel business, but if not, I just want to as extra income cuz I'm more passion more passionate about events and entertainment and mainly party planning.

Um So, pitch us your small business idea.

How much is it going to cost and what is what's it going to be?

Okay, so I want to rent out photo backdrops. You know, like those florals, like the pretty stuff people stand in front of to take pictures at like bridal showers, baby showers, weddings, Mother's Day. And I do have a couple of connections like with the Hilton and the convention center in town and Cuz there's a lot of weddings and events there. >> these before, Lauren?

Um I have, but it's just like I have two backdrops that I own personally and I've rented them out a handful of times.

>> And how how expensive how how much money can you make by doing that? Like if an event rents out one of your backdrops, how much are you making?

Well, um depending on the backdrop, I mean a hundred well, $200 for the most basic one and like up to $400 depending

on how fancy the backdrop is. But my issue is I only have two and they're not fancy. So, if I invested in a more backdrops, it's going to cost me anywhere from three grand to five grand just to have a handful of backdrops.

Okay, and how much do you have in your savings?

Um 30,000.

>> 30, nice.

Um Are you single? Kids?

>> Yes, no children.

Yeah, so is $25,000 a good emergency

fund for you? Do you feel comfortable with that? Feels like a lot. >> Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah, I would take

cuz I only owe 54,000 on my condo, so I

was trying to just, you know, get up to 60, pay it completely off, and then, you

know, my 5,000 would be my emergency fund, but it was like, should I try to do the side gig or the side project business to make more money quicker without killing myself? How much of this can you do on your own without hiring other people? Cuz you're kind of stuck trading your time, right? You got to bring the backdrop, set up the backdrop, break down the backdrop.

You got to keep it local to where it's drivable. Exactly. Um um for the most part, I can do it all by myself. Now, in addition to the backdrop, I also do balloon arches and those can be anywhere from a hundred bucks to three hundred bucks depending on how much time it takes and how many balloons it takes.

That's 2,400 bucks. Yeah, that's 2,400 bucks a month. Um I mean It'll be more popular during, you know, like uh special events and the holidays like Christmas, New Year's Eve. Sure.

Sure. Cuz ideally you could get to the place where this replaces the front desk job that you're making 34.

And if you could do this instead, you know, maybe still keep the other one, but um replace at least one of these so that you're just working a few hours versus till 11:00 every night you know, at the front desk. That That seems worth it to me and it seems like it's been somewhat proven out the fact that you're You got connections, you've done this before, you've made money. So I would Yeah, if you're going to spend cash on this and go with a small investment up front with 3 to 5 grand, I would go for it and see where you can take this thing and see how you might end up needing to hire someone out because you're working and can't be at every single event in all places at one time, but maybe you pay them, you know, 15, 20 bucks an hour to go set it up and break it down and you still make profit.

Yeah, exactly. And it it doesn't um take long. I mean, they're heavy and kind of annoying, but it it literally takes me like not even 30 minutes to set it up um

and, you know, get it in place and then 30 minutes to break it down and put it in my car. It's great. I also drive a Prius. I was going to say, I feel like you're going to need a pretty big car to carry all these backdrops. So what I don't want you to do is go I had to finance a $50,000 van to transport the

backdrops. So just be smart about it.

I think my car's been paid off for 9 years, so I'm going to let it, you know, die on me. Well, Lauren, you've been very smart.

You don't have any consumer debt, you have a lot of savings, you're taking your time, you're working to pay off the condo. I mean, you're doing your your gut so far is correct what you've been

doing. So um yeah, I trust you. And maybe I'd say I'd work on saving up and cash flowing a SUV or van so that you can use it for business and increase your income that way, too.

Yeah, cuz I also wanted to like not just do the backdrop, but you know, make it pretty, you know, purchase a few um like

benches, which I have a couple, but they're like fold up benches I can fit in the Prius. Mhm. I love it.

I Yeah, I can't get couches and stuff because Yeah, that's a lot.

>> For sure. Just go slow and be smart about it. Use profits to reinvest in the business and start to grow this thing and see where it goes. >> Yeah, people love a balloon arch these days, Lauren. Ladies love a balloon arch. >> You're in a great business. [music] The men could do without them.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruze with George Kamel and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next we have Emma in Minneapolis. Hi

Emma, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So I am a senior in high school. I'm freshly 18 years old.

Um and I got into my dream college and I

don't know how to tell my parents.

Wow, I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good. So give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

Um so my dream school for my whole life

has been um University of Northwestern, St. Paul.

Whole life? Since you were zero years old, you're like this is on my my dream Pinterest board.

Is that that's a Is [laughter] that a private school?

Yes, it's private and Christian. Yep.

How much is that tuition?

It's about 38,000 a year. Okay.

Um Okay. So what have you and your parents talked about when it comes to college?

Um so I've known for a very long time

that my parents were not going to help us we're not going to help me with college. Um I'm the oldest of six kids and we live on just my dad's income.

Okay. And so they don't want me to go there

because they don't want me to go into student

loan debt, which I understand. Yeah. Um

100%. >> haven't I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying, yep, we agree with your parents. We We are um and so you've not told them

because you're going to go and you're going to go take on essentially over 4 years $160,000.

What I haven't told them is that I got

Yeah. What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

>> Oh, well, that's great. Okay, so how much does that cover?

Um it covers about $44,000 over all four years.

Okay. So you're down to like you'll owe 120 or something. What's the number?

It's $11,000 a year for all four years,

so I'm down to like $105,000.

Okay.

And how much do you have saved?

I actually do not have a savings account. I have been um helping my parents with the bills and stuff. I work for the >> So they're struggling financially?

Yes. Okay. Oh, wow. And you're working

part-time and that money that you're working for is going to the household.

Yes. Was this a something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a hey, if you're going to live under our roof, you got to help around cuz times are tough.

No, it's kindness.

Okay. >> And they're and they're and they're they're taking your money.

I mean, they're taking it. No. Um they So I contribute I help pay um for groceries and stuff.

And I am aware that some of the money that I am paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me.

I just don't know how much that is.

So we can get some clarity on that. We got to know if it's a thousand or ten thousand.

I think if my math is right, it should

be around 8,000.

And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

I don't know. Yeah. Well, I hate to say it. I mean, I know there's you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but asking an 18-year-old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me.

Um so I would I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account, but I would ask them tonight because it is October and if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early I mean, it's what you you're doing. You're getting college. Um you're you've sent out college applications, you're getting the letters in, you're figuring out your next steps and you do that around this time.

next 9 months of like what you have to work with and staying within that. So um I want to be really kind because I really appreciate the dream school. I know that, you know, you've thought about it and all of it, but

there is a sign of maturity, Emma, that

when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want.

And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talked to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that.

And so I would implore you that your friends, Rachel and George, can tell you in the real world, when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma. They really don't. Some Some care that you have a four-year degree. I mean, that's a I think a great um thing to have, you know, so I I I think that's great.

But people don't care and they don't know, you know, the the name of the school and all of that.

be successful and get a job that's going to

then carry you for your throughout your adulthood.

And going at $120,000

or $105,000.

Um I think it's a little bit I think it's going to end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and both everything. Um What are you studying?

I was planning on double majoring in

pastoral ministry and communications.

Emma. Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making 53, 58,000 a year. And he's

been doing it a long time. >> It would take you 60 It would It would take you like 7 to 8 years to pay this off.

No. No. Please. Please. Please, no. What do

you What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job that like if I could just do this job, it would be a dream.

Um summer camps director. Okay. For like for a summer camp. I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what you need? Experience at a summer camp

where you work your way into a director role. >> you can do for free. So this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis.

Cuz here's what I'll let me play this out and you can go watch the Bard Future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll help help you understand some of what we're talking about. My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out. So you're going to have to go get a job.

You're going to have to end up being, you know, an administrative assistant or something. I mean, which is not bad, but you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years for for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need.

Um Now would it be a great time going to the school? I think so. But is it worth 120 grand for the price to have this experience? I don't think it is at this point.

Now if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go good for you. Go for it. But I just I I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18 and it was 50 grand a year for 4 years and going to a film school and I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, please don't do this, young man.

Yeah. Cuz when you look when you look at scripture, Emma, every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now it's not a sin if you end up going you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right?

It's not a sin. [music] But every time it's mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse. It's you are a slave to the lender.

It is not wise. Go read Proverbs. Go read Proverbs. What God has set before you.

And [music] before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom. And figure out how much is in that account.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze.

This is the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

We're heading to Tampa next to talk to Corey. How can we help, Corey?

Hi there. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's going on?

I'm contemplating selling my small

business to accept a job that would increase my total income to

try and get out of this debt that we're in as quick as possible and I'm just trying to make sure that I'm doing the right thing.

Okay. How much debt are you in?

Uh right around 100,000 before my

mortgage. Okay. And what kind of debt is the 100,000?

Um let's see. We got 35 is allocated

towards the small business. It's a It's a food truck. Um so that was a startup loan from friends and family members. Um about 30,000 in student loans. Uh 10,000

to fix the AC.

Um and then about 20

2,000 in uh or no, 25,000 in vehicles.

Okay. And what is this business worth if you were to sell it?

Um I would estimate around 42,000 to

just sell the trailer.

Um and then I also have a truck that I bought to use with the business that I could potentially let go as well. What's that worth? Um it's worth right around 13,000 and I

owe 50 18,500 on it.

Okay. So you're 5 grand underwater on that. Okay. So you would get uh 55k essentially for selling this business?

Correct. >> And you need another five to get out of the underwater loan and you're about 100k in debt. So this gets you out of debt twice as fast and what's the household income now?

Um right now my wife just got a promotion. She makes seven 67 before bonuses with potential

12,000 in bonuses.

Um I make about 550 at a part-time job a

week. And then the trailer, we really

don't take a paycheck from it. I just whatever profits at the end of the month I throw at debts, which is averaging

between um you know, 2,000 and 3,500 a month.

Okay. So all together you guys make about 100k a year?

Roughly.

It's It's not including the trailer in any way, shape or form seeing as how I don't take a paycheck from it. Yeah. It's It's closer to like 85 to 90. And what's the

new job, Corey, that you're looking at?

Uh I would be taking a chef position at the part-time job now, which would get me up to um 73 guaranteed with a potential 12,000

bonus as well. Amazing.

Um for the food truck itself, is it something you would go back to doing after you Like if you were completely debt-free, would you still keep this keep doing this or are you getting burned out? Uh well, I've kind of burned out on it. Um been doing it for about 2 and 1/2 3 years working 7 days a week, you know, 70 80 90-hour weeks.

Um and just it was never supposed to be the end-all, be-all. It was supposed to be a stepping stone towards a brick-and-mortar location and it's just looking like the reality of it puts it, you know, 5 6 7

years down the road and I just don't think that I could put my family through that hardship. >> Yeah. Totally. That's mature of you.

Yeah. And I think I mean, I think you're listening to your gut and I think you're you're seeing kind of the tea leaves of what's happening, which I think is really smart, Corey. Really, really smart. Especially when you talk about the food industry.

We've gotten calls of people um that go straight to want to go straight to the brick and mortar and take out a massive loan. And the food industry is one of the highest ones that, you know, the highest parts of of small businesses that goes up and it goes down and it It closes more than any other industry. Uh it's just a And as you experienced with the food truck, it is just a It's a tough It's a tough world to be in. It's a lot of work.

A lot of work. And again, not always with the guarantee that it's going to be successful.

>> You're going to get a 50 grand raise while getting rid of half of your debt.

>> And you're still doing the thing you love. You're still able to, you know, be in that world of of cooking and food and um hopefully innovating.

>> Yeah. I mean, like to me, this is kind of a no-brainer, honestly, cuz I don't know. You kind of get to still live your dream but not have to deal with owning anything right now.

Right. So yes, I would, Corey. >> do it. I'd try to get top dollar for your trailer and the truck. And do you have anything in savings?

Um we have uh right around 2,000 in our

emergency savings and then I have about 2,000 cash that just kind of floats around for uh expenditures. Okay. You may want to wait another paycheck or two, get that 5,000 difference that you're underwater on so that you have the money to actually get rid of the note on that truck.

Okay. >> way you're not having to take out another loan to clean this up. And then I'd take that new job, man. And I I would clean this mess up. You're probably get I mean, you'll be making what, 150k household at that point?

Roundabouts. Yeah, you know, it's not guaranteed. Um you know, so it's there is a little bit of a fluctuation on it. Sure. And then, you know, we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we we But making about 150 with 50k left to pay off, that's going to get knocked out real quick. Versus your situation now, which is we make 80 90 with 100 to

pay off. The The math ain't mathing on that one. So we do need some drastic changes. You're willing to do it. You're burnt out on this. And guess what? Later on down the road, you may decide to do this dream again, but you're going to do it with cash, with more experience, while making more money. And so I don't want you I know it's It's hard to grieve something that you put your heart and soul into and I can tell you're passionate about it, but there's also wisdom in going now's not the time.

Yeah, and you know, we we just found Dave Ramsey and your whole system a few months ago and we have made considerable progress towards our debt.

We we always live all of our debts from

3 years previous. We haven't gone into any debt in the last 3 years. We were just paying minimums and then we read um

you know, uh Total Money Makeover and we've started trying to get out of this debt. We're still struggling with the budget somewhat. You know, I feel like there's still more room for cutting some expenses, but it's just you know, been a little bit of a struggle. Yeah, and and just to give you some some hope and I mean you guys have just been doing this a couple of months and even with the budget we we say it usually takes about 3 to 4 months to really get in the cycle of doing it and and it actually be correct that you can live on.

So, you guys are just starting out and the fact that you're so gung-ho about it, I mean you you're going to make great progress.

The numbers will start to give you some hope instead of going, "Oh my gosh, how are we going to fix this puzzle?" And so I'm we're wishing you the best, Corey. Appreciate the call. >> you know what? Hold on the line, Corey. Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year on us and this is our budgeting app that hopefully will um help get this a little bit more organized. It's a very It's a great app because it it's very fine-tuned. Like you get to see all the categories. Yes.

>> All right, let's go to Kathy in Boston.

How can we help, Kathy?

Hi. Hey. What's your question?

Okay, I'm 67 years old and I'd like to

retire in 3 years and I do have uh money

[clears throat] in stocks and bonds and mutual funds and I'm not sure if I should keep it there or if I should maybe switch to annuities or IRA CDs. I

didn't know what the best way to go.

Well, I mean switching to annuities and and IRA CDs, you're talking about really lowering your ability to make any money.

And so you're just sort of preserving what is. And you know, if you're 67,

there's a good chance you live to 87 if you're in good health, right?

Yes. >> And so I want to see your money grow beyond the rate of inflation. So, what is your money in and how much?

Um I have approximately 250 216,000.

And that would be like stocks, bonds, mutual cuz I have it in three different places that kind of manage it.

Okay. What else? >> And then I do have I get have social security. Okay. And then I work and I

work. Okay. So, what's your plan to actually retire? How will you cover your expenses in retirement?

Just with my investments and the money I have and of course my social security.

What are your monthly expenses?

Oh, um let's see.

Maybe maybe 1,600 a month maybe I mean 2,000

would be way overkill. Okay. And what's your social security payment going to be?

Uh 2,100 after tax. Oh, nice.

>> So, that's enough to cover the baseline bills for now without more inflation.

And I would leave your money invested in the market. I wouldn't go to you know, search for a 4% return when what we're seeing in the market I just checked my 401k last year, Kathy.

37% >> [music] >> return when I just left it in and didn't touch it and left it in the overall market and growth stock mutual funds versus those less risky, but lower return things like those CDs and [music] annuities. So, I would stay on your plan. This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

>> This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Welcome back. Going to the [music] phones, we have Sarah in Riverside,

California. Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely.

How can we help?

So, I have some guilt and pride around

using uh child support money. So, I was

in an abusive relationship and by the grace of God I was able to leave when my son was about 3 weeks old. Oh my gosh, Sarah. >> now husband um when my son was 6 months old and he's now 12.

Um my husband and I had sat and talked and said, "We don't want any money. We don't want anything. We want nothing to do with him." Mhm. Well, the judge made the decision that it's not our choice and it's not our money. Um it's for our son. So, we we're just putting all that money in an account. Um we had some debt and um in 2021 I lost my job and we

needed four walls. So, we dipped into

that account. Um as of January of 2025, we are

officially done with baby step two. We are completely debt-free. >> Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. It's very exciting. I'm really happy to be there. Mhm. Um but I have about $4,000 from that child

support money that we said we'd never use. Um and I'm wondering if I should just pay it back like a debt and just keep going like if we were on baby step two or I mean the connotation of the child support money in the first place just kills me.

And I don't know what to do about it.

So, so this this guilt, Sarah, I'm just double-checking that the facts are correct. You didn't use this money immorally. It was more of a conviction that you personally had with it because of who it came from and you just the thought of using it just feels gross and you had to use it at one point. Um but but from a legal standpoint, you used it exactly how anyone else would use it, right? To help run the household because you're you you're taking care of a child and that other parent is helping with that, correct?

Exactly. >> Yeah. And what was the court order? How much and for how long?

Um it was originally it was until he was 18 and it was supposed to be $430.

Um the only money that I've actually seen from that is the COVID money. Um I

was able to get his COVID check. I didn't know that it was coming.

Um my husband um adopted our son when he

was 4 years old, everything finalized, so that's when the child support stopped. But there's so much arrears that I mean I will still randomly get like a $12 check. Um Okay, so it's it's

over essentially. You're not getting future payments. No. >> have this kind of saving sitting here and you feel like I don't want to I don't want to touch this money cuz it feels weird. >> much is in that account?

Um in the account right now is um 2,000 and I used four of it.

>> Four of it. And what are you going to play What are you going to do with it eventually? Are you going to give it to him when he's 18 or or help pay for a car when he's 16 or college or what do you think?

That's what we were thinking. Um just a car or something like that. Like I said, my son my husband's been around since my son was 6 months old. So, my son doesn't know. Um he doesn't know any different as of right now. Um eventually we're going to tell him. I mean we have to tell him, but we're just not there yet. Um he's not emotionally mature enough to be there yet. Sure. Okay. Um so, what I'll speak to I I'll speak

to the money side of it, Sarah, from the sense that no, this is not a debt that you need to pay. I mean you're you used the money essentially how the system works and you know, you used it exactly appropriately and I know that does it sit well with you because of who it's coming from and that that totally makes sense to me.

financial standpoint understands um understands money, doesn't have to walk through this debt-free journey and we're setting him up in order to do that." And that looks like things like maybe college or um helping with his first car, you know, what whatever that may look like for you guys. And for me, um I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't hold on to that emotional $4,000 anymore because um I I think you I think you need to release that, but I think going forward the motivation now is to pass a great legacy on to your son, right?

So, I unders I totally understand how that can feel like, "Oh my my we used this money and it feels so gross and I hate it cuz I don't he's a terrible person. Um but on but you know, you you guys were in a pinch at the time and that's what that money's for is to help take care of your son and that's what you guys did. So, um I I would I would let go of that cuz emotionally I think it I think it is holding on to you so deeply.

Yeah. So, in the filing cabinet of your brain, we need to refile this instead of child support money from an abusive awful relationship, this is changing my family tree money to set up my child for a better life than the one I experienced. >> Yeah, and Sarah too, you know, give give yourself a little bit of grace, you know, if if this was a $60,000, you know, thing or something and you're like, "Oh my gosh, you were supposed to use it for a down payment on a house." Or you know what I mean? Like a mag- like I feel like like a like a lot of this magnitude and weight from a dollar standpoint, I feel like we could go at it a different way cuz I could see you know, the more money it is, the more weight it feels, right?

So, um so with this 4,000, yeah, I I want you I want you to release it for you, Sarah. Again, it's not about the dollars at that point. To me, it it's it's that emotional attachment that's still there to him. And I I I want that I want that released from you, you know?

So, um whatever that looks like with your own words. >> would have a goal for this money instead of letting it just sit there. It's only going to make you know, reopen the wound. So, I would put it in a 529 plan for a college.

I would put it toward a in a savings account for a car fund one day cuz that day is going to come and these things cost money and this is it's part of the deal. And you know, it's a shared burden because that person was a parent and this is what the court ordered.

You're doing great." But that's the truth of it. It's it's that hard and it's that simple to just go, "All right, it happened. That was the past and I'm going to make a better future for my kid now." And it sounds like you guys are thriving and this child is so lucky to have you, too.

Yeah, we're um he's definitely blessed.

My husband is literally a godsend and he

took him on like his own and like I said, nobody nobody knows. Um there's a couple people like family knows, but he doesn't know and my husband stepped up in more ways than I could ever even pray for. Mhm. Well, Anne, give yourself too

so much credit, Sarah, because we we talked to so many people on this show and women specifically that are in in a situation and they just so they don't feel like there's a way out and um whether from it's financial type abuse where you know, a husband's withholding and not allowing >> Controlling. Yes, to physical, emotional. I mean, you know, you can fill in the gaps and >> is wide. >> And to break that cycle is so so

difficult and as Dr. John Delony says who works um with you know, so so many people in this area, says that there's it's rare to have someone actually break it. So, when you do, it is a it is a >> Something to be celebrated. >> I mean, it really is, Sarah.

So, I mean, I I just commend you for that. I know that was 12 years ago, but that is that's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah, George, when we you know, think about part of the baby steps and what she said, I loved because yeah, it's baby step, you know, they're they're past baby step two.

They're moving on for that fully funded emergency fund and so forth and there there is something so freeing from the sense of yes, uh the dollars and cents are there, right? We're we're being wise with our actual tactical money. That's, you know, very important, but it's so much bigger than that. It is like the place where money sits in our lives, the value of which we give it.

And when you are out of debt, you have that emergency fund, it's it's you you don't have to be obsessed with it. You don't have to stress about it because you're setting yourself up so well. And what that speaks to your kids in a household is everything. Like to me, that is that's part of family changing the family tree.

>> Yeah, and there's a lot of belief there. People think there's some sort of like financial DNA that you're born with because of the environment and place and parents, but we're proving it with Sarah that you can break chains. You might be the first one in your family to become debt free, to create a better life for your kid, for your kid to go to college debt free, for you to have a home that you own free and clear, for you to become a millionaire. And it's something you get to choose and it's a daily choice and it's one of the hardest patterns to break because of all the shame and guilt from the past and your belief system is so tied up.

And you talk about this in know yourself, know your money. The different money classrooms you grew up in, it really shapes you and you have to really try to break all of the bad stuff to get to the good stuff. >> yeah. Yeah, and as parents, you know, whatever you can do, you know, we always say more is caught than taught, but from again, that that that standpoint of money we're going to get in control of our money because yes, from a monetary standpoint, we need to know where our money's going.

We want to be debt free. We want to start, you know, investing [music] and letting the math work for us. Like all of that. But more importantly, realizing that money's a tool.

It is a tool to create a life that you love. Like that that's what [music] it is. It is not good. It is not bad.

It doesn't have morals. And so, how how can that lessen and where money is placed in your life [music] and in your heart and your identity? What your kids see, that speaks louder than words.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. One of the best ways to spread the word [music] we have found is not just in marketing, George. It is word of mouth. It's you guys sharing the show on your social media, sending clips to your friends and your family and just really getting the word out that way. So, we really really do appreciate it.

So, make sure you do that. Leave a review, subscribe to our channels, podcast, YouTube and yeah, we really we really appreciate it. The show it's grown so much, which we're so thankful for and it's a lot because of you guys and we want to help give content into the world that is positive and instructional and inspirational. So, that is what >> way to give back. >> this show is all about. So, and it's your show. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

Up next, we have Elise in Little Rock.

Hey, Elise. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Um we bought a property um 3 years ago

and the property owners committed fraud.

They withheld the fact that the well runs dry about half of the year. Oh gosh. >> Um feels like a problem. >> It will cost 24,000 to drill a new well

or 30,000 to bring in city water.

My husband wants to spend our emergency fund on the well, um but I don't think it's an emergency because we've lived with it for 3 years. We spend about $80 a month on laundry.

Um and we're debt free besides the mortgage. My husband works full-time and

makes $60,000 a year.

The other option is we could buy an old well drilling rig for 4,800, but we

don't know if there's any major issues with it. Um

and then we could buy a brand new well

drilling rig for 20 um 2,000. We have 1,100 11

um thousand in our emergency fund, but

once it's fully funded, it will be 18,000.

So, you don't have the money to cover this anyways, even with the emergency fund. If you did the the 24K or 30K option.

That's right. And nothing in the was

there a lawsuit because of the fraud?

Anything legally that they had to pay you guys because they didn't disclose it? We are still in the process, but we um do not believe that we will probably

win the case. We don't believe we will get um the money to cover it.

>> Why?

Um because we believe that she is

doesn't have the money to >> Okay. pay us back for it. Okay.

Um okay, so how long Elise would it take you guys to save up the extra 13,000 to to make

this a possibility for a $24,000 fix?

Um we have saved about um 11,000 in the

last um four or five months.

Okay. So, it'll take us another 6 months probably. >> Okay, to do that. And you don't want to do that. That's not cuz because you're good with how you guys are functioning now. Cuz I mean, I I guess if the well runs dry, do you guys have water? I mean, like what how what is what does life look like on the Is this Little House on the Prairie? How does this work?

Um well, I do laundry at the laundromat.

Um I can only do one load of dishes a

day um and then >> Elise, that kind of sounds miserable.

Is it? >> kind of miserable. Okay, yeah. I would probably save up and get >> categorize this as an emergency.

>> kind of a necessity, you know, your four walls, food, shelter, >> or death, but it's it's pretty close.

Well, I'm worried that if we um spend

our emergency fund on this, uh another emergency will pop up and then we have

no money.

Well, that I mean, that's always risk.

Most emergencies for the most part

you're able to get by with a couple of thousand dollars. So maybe you guys save 28,000, have 4,000 left over just for a little bit of cushion, and that'll be a few extra months, right? So maybe you you give yourself a deadline and say, "Okay, but in 8 months we're going to we're going to fix this well issue." Do it and and still have some some cash left over and then keep saving cuz sometimes when stuff comes up, I mean just like this, this is a great example.

You know, yes, we would consider this an emergency or people have, you know, a tire, you know, goes flat or you could fix that for more than less than less than $4,000, but >> Yeah, but like a a roof or heating and air, things that are like really really really expensive, usually you can buy

some time and be able to save month to month. >> I'm wondering. Is there a temporary fix?

Let's say you bought the used rig. Do you guys know how to do this yourselves or would you still pay someone to actually do the work?

We could do it ourselves. Wow. If you feel capable and >> Are you guys like do you know how to like is that something that's like, "Oh yeah, that's a totally possibility." and your husband's like, "Yep, for sure." It just seems complicated. >> Yes, my Yes, we could for sure do it and we have a friend that has actually built a well drilling system in the past.

>> Okay. Then I feel like you go with this route for now. >> Yeah, why wouldn't you do that route?

Um it just makes me nervous to buy

something that we're not positive would work. What And why why wouldn't it work?

Just cuz it's a used old I mean it's a 19 80s truck that has a old well drilling rig that hasn't worked. >> Can you some Can you test it somehow?

Um yes. >> Or have someone inspect it? >> other ones out there that you guys can rent for a month?

We cannot. I've looked everywhere.

There's no well drilling rigs for rent.

You'd have to buy either a new or you'd have to find a used one somewhere. And most of them aren't big enough because we are drilling through rock and most of them most of the ones that you would buy for 20,000 would drill

through sand or gravel, not

solid rock. >> Okay. Not big enough. I feel like George and I are probably not the I just Beyond our pay grade talking about [laughter] drilling wells. But if I if I was in your shoes and I felt comfortable and capable, I would inspect it, make sure it's mechanically sound, and buy the used one because that's what you can afford right now.

And later on, if that buys you time even to save up 24 grand to do it officially and or to get the city water, I would do that down the line. But for now, I'm I'm willing to drop five grand to see if we can fix this problem and remedy it.

Even for a year or Okay, and it's only 2,400, right? >> 4 4,800 for the used one? There's a there's a used one for 4,800. okay. Talk him down to four. Negotiate him down and see if you can get this thing going.

>> Cuz there ain't I mean there's not a lot of buyers cuz apparently there's not a lot of ones out there. So >> you can sell it once you're done with it and make some money back out of it, right? Yeah, we've also thought about using it around here locally cuz there's only one well drilling company, so >> you got a new business on your hands.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, well, I hope that helps, Alise. So yeah, maybe maybe do that if you feel capable. I don't know why I didn't have that as an option. That's impressive.

Alise and her husband Well, my first thought was if I I would just go drill it myself. >> I mean I mean George with his with his

with his tools with his tools George could figure it out. Honestly, I think your husband Winston could figure >> [laughter] >> how to drill a well. >> I'd I'd call Winston. Yeah, you two together. I just feel like it would work. I feel like it would work.

>> [laughter] >> So great. Okay, up next we have Andy in

Miami. Hey Andy, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel, hi George. Huge fan here.

Thanks. How can we help?

So I currently work for a bank and you

guys may not like it, but I underwrite commercial real estate loans.

Uh >> We'll still be friends. >> We can still be friends, Andy. It's okay. >> Thank you. >> [laughter] >> At least not personal loans or residential mortgages. >> There you go, see.

Um so work from home set up, base salary

is around 113 plus some other little

perks, 20k bonus, they'll give me 2,000

toward my 401k just cuz every year, and about 1,000 toward my HSA.

Fully remote, love my bosses, they love me. About four years in.

Um and then I got a message from a recruiter on LinkedIn about a a trade

finance type job. Sounded interesting, but very very far away uh geographically, about an hour to 80 minutes each way per day, Miami, road rage capital of the world. So I was like, "Eh, all right. I'll tell this guy I'm open. He's going to say 120, I'm going to say thanks, bye." He says 150 to 180

plus 20% bonus. Um

so my interest was piqued there and I'm just kind of weighing the pros and cons of uh financial >> Do you guys have Do you guys have a lot of debt?

We are recently on baby step three. I just finished FPU lecture co-leading it

two weeks ago. And you've got a spouse?

Have a spouse, two kids.

This is a move. >> be done with the children. Yeah. Um mother-in-law who's been a huge help is about two miles away.

Oh man, that's tough. That's a big life change. Yeah, I don't Unless you plan on moving, I wouldn't do the hour commute. It's not worth the money.

It's [music] two hours in the car. It's >> to make more doing what you're doing now and stay put. Have the peace. You've set your life up to have peace.

[music] I don't know if I would do it for the money. That would be tough. Thanks for the call, Andy. Thanks to you, America, for listening.

Thanks everyone in the booth, my co-host George Kamel. This is The Ramsey Show.

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by my friend my friend Rachel Cruze this hour.

888-825-5225 is the number to call to join the conversation. Andy is down the road in Nashville. What's going on, Andy?

Hey, not a whole lot. How are you guys doing today? Doing great. What's your question today?

Awesome. So my question is I recently

purchased a home and um I've accumulated quite a bit in debt, which I know you guys practice against. Um so to try and mitigate this debt, I'm

thinking what I'll do is I've got a

house on the property and a shop house on the property. What I'm really looking to do is to move into the shop house and rent out the bigger house, but um seems

like some of the people I've got that are close to me have have advised against this and um you know, I'm just I wanted to ask the pros and they listen to the show, so I'm excited to to hear what you guys have to say.

Okay, so give us some some numbers,

Andy. How much are you in debt?

I bought the house for 250,000, put about 30,000 down, so I've got about

220,000 left on it. Is that your only debt? Is just the house?

Yeah, so actually I sold both vehicles

that I had at the time and now I'm driving around in in beaters.

Um so so yeah, that's my only debt.

Okay. It sounded like you had like racked up some consumer debt, but it's just a mortgage?

It's just my mortgage, yes. >> Okay. And how much do you make a year?

Roughly 130,000 a year. Okay.

And is the mortgage payment overwhelming to you or you're just wanting to do this just to get to get the house paid off as quickly as possible?

So I make the house payment in in less than a week, but the the main motivator for why I'm doing

what I'm doing or thinking of doing what I'm doing is because I'm a truck driver and I just don't make it home a lot. I'm only home about two days a week, so I'm trying to Okay.

Yeah, I I've comped some similar properties in the area that are being rented and you know, I could I could basically come out even if I rented that and stayed in

the shop house. I could have my bills paid for for free, basically.

>> How much is your payment a month?

It's around 1,500 a month. Okay.

Are you married?

Uh I'm not. Uh we're we're getting there. Okay. Does she want to live in the house once you get there?

She So we live in the house currently

and she doesn't want to move out into the shop house even though I think it's nice enough for us. I don't think that it's up to her standards necessarily.

Yeah, I mean it you're not making it sound super enticing. I'll say that. You say shop house, it doesn't sound like a place where a person should live.

>> [laughter] >> So. Well, it it's like an apartment. It if you could imagine a little studio apartment, it's something of the nature of that, but it's it's beyond livable.

It it's nice in my opinion. It's just like >> Okay. Well, and she's the girlfriend. She's living there for free, I'm assuming.

Yes, ma'am. Okay, so I wouldn't want to live in the shop house of my if I was living with my boyfriend and he's like, "You got to go to the shop house cuz I'm renting this out." I'd probably be like, "Great. I'm going to go rent an apartment." And right like she she needs to

do what she needs to do.

Um >> There's some relational risk here. >> I don't want to make the decision based on the girlfriend. If it was your wife, I'd be like, "Andy Andy Andy." But it's

a girlfriend. Like she doesn't have any skin in the game. So >> feels like this is not worth the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this. You don't need to do it. Nothing's on fire.

You have a great income and a very reasonable mortgage. Why not just continue on?

Well, but what's the actual financial problem?

Well, as far as the as far as the financial problem goes, it's just the fact that I've signed a 30-year note on this house and I'm thinking of all the interest that I'm going to pay. >> So pay it off early.

I probably could.

Yeah, the only downside I would think is that if Are you wanting this house long-term, Andy? Like do you see like it'll probably be with you for a while.

I just I always It feels a little weird to have people living in a house for two you know, two or three different families or people um and then you go back and move back into it. Does that make sense? Like I don't know. It's um So >> It just doesn't feel like any of this was intentional. It's just sort of like, "Well, I could do this." And your family's steering you against it why?

What is their big qualm with this move?

They're steering me against it because they know that I can afford it as is and

no one in my family has ever rented out a property before. But the way I look at

it from a financial standpoint is if I live in the shop house double or triple up on payments, I can have a I can turn a 30-year mortgage into a you know, a a three or four or five year mortgage. Sure.

>> And and then I can be off the road at that point as well. So for me it's making sense from a lot of different angles.

>> I'm not mad at it. I mean, I don't think it's necessary I don't think it like what George said. I don't think it this isn't urgent move that I If you had called and I would have been like, "Oh, you have a shop house? Great. You should live in that to rent out your main house." That would not have been my advice to you. Anyways. But if you want

to do it, that's I mean, that's up to you. And you'll make extra payments and but you're just going to have people living in there and then the something's going to leak and break and they'll be calling you on the road. You're going to have to you know, figure out okay, I got to get a plumber down there. I mean, there's legit like It's not hassle-free.

>> It's not just easy money. Right. And I think a lot of people think having a rental there's like it's passive income is what everyone says. And it's a it's there's a level of a responsibility you have that you have to be on call.

You have to be willing to to work with these people whoever's going to live in there. Um But But one thing I do like,

Andy, is that you're not desperate. Cuz then you can actually probably go through a an actual You'll take worse tenants, make worse decisions.

>> and get some good tenants and you know what I mean? Like you're not in a rush.

So I would never suggest you do it. I don't think you need to, but if you want to, then do it. And then >> I don't think it's going to break you, but I don't think it's going to be the sweet sweet free money that you're envisioning either.

Okay. Okay. So do you have savings in the bank? Do you have an emergency fund?

>> Uh yes. Yes, sir. I do.

>> I've got roughly 35,000

liquid. >> You've done really well. >> Yeah, Andy, well done. >> I'm proud of you, man. Seriously. Thank you. I I just think I would set a goal for myself where I still get to live in my own house and then I make extra payments. And so figure out a way to do that and I think you'll cut your mortgage in half or more just on your own volition without ever becoming a landlord.

Okay. That would be my goal. It's great. And once you're married, if she's working, she'll add to it, too. Or she'll help knock down that mortgage if you guys are both working.

I don't know how she's going to like that idea. Her working in the future? Is

she working now?

She is she is a gym coach for little girls and they actually went to the Junior Olympics this year. So That's sweet. >> them. So I I love for her to follow her dream.

Do you think I can make the team?

>> [laughter] >> Well, you could try. I think she'd be happy to work with you. She likes anybody. She's good with people. That's sweet. She sounds like a keeper, man. [snorts] Best of luck to you with this decision. It's not an easy one. I would I wouldn't take it lightly, but I think you have a good game plan here of just figuring out how to do this without becoming a landlord for now. Good luck.

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[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel [music] Cruze. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Well, Rachel, we get a lot of questions about investing, the social media world, young people. All they want to hear is about how to build wealth. And it can be overwhelming. It's great.

>> conversation to have. But there's so much noise out there. It can be overwhelming. You can get sort of paralyzed, a paralysis analysis. And a lot of people end up doing nothing because they're scared of doing something but doing it incorrectly. And so I want to set them free today with with some teaching on this on kind of the primer for building wealth. Um and

research has shown that a lack of confidence in making these decisions, it's a primary reason why people don't invest. So they we just need to bring them some literacy and some hope that it's way easier than they think. So here's what we're going to call it, keep it simple stupid. You ever heard of that?

The KISS method. That's what they call it back in my day. So investing is a long game. You're not trying to time the market and buy single stocks.

You don't need to be a prodigy.

It's okay. But before there is a prerequisite if you know the Ramsey plan, you've got to be in the right spot in the Ramsey baby steps. So we've got baby step one, start our emergency fund. Baby step two, paying off all the consumer debt. Baby step three, fully funded emergency fund.

Then comes baby step four.

>> Investing. Yep. >> Make sure you knock those first three out. Otherwise, it's going to be much harder to invest. You're going to add a lot of risk and stress into your life.

But once you're there >> Well, and even those who are investing now and still have consumer debt, when you're paying off that we would even say to pause >> Ooh, yeah. >> investing, too. So truly those first three steps are just like one at a time.

You're doing nothing else but those. But then you get to baby step four and you get to start you get to start investing.

>> It's You start building for the future instead of paying for the past. So this is where it gets exciting. >> Yeah. So the first thing to really think through is what are your goals?

What are you wanting to invest for? Are you investing for retirement knowing I'm not going to see this till I'm 60 years old and I'm putting money away because I'm going to you know, I want to retire at 60 and be able to cash everything out and be great or not cash everything out, but you know, [clears throat] live off those investments. Um is it that you want to maybe open up an index fund or a mutual fund and put some money in month to month because you're looking out in the future and you're like, yeah, we'll probably be putting a down payment on a house maybe in four to five years.

I don't know, but I want to be able to get to that money without penalty. Um so you know, I'm I'm doing that. Is it kids college? Are you investing for kids college in a 529?

subject and narrow it down for you to know what lane you're wanting to invest in. >> And that why will keep you focused and eye on the prize instead of sort of getting all starry-eyed or pulling your money out when you go, "Oh no, this is for this purpose." Yeah, because just so you'll know, we define investing as five years or later, right? Or longer. That's

that's investing for us. Savings is more short-term. You're saving for something in the next month to three, four years.

But when you're talking five years or more, that's where you're like, okay, we can start thinking about this investing idea. >> That's because there's less risk for you to lose money in the short-term versus long-term, we know you're going to make it if you do it the right way. So the next step, once you've decided on your investing goals, you got to figure out how much you're going to invest. And your goals will determine this, but we recommend at baby step four putting away 15% of your gross household income into

tax-advantaged retirement accounts. So simply put, this would be I've got a Roth 401k at work. I'm going to put 15% of my income, my spouse will put 15% of their income. Together, that's 15% of household income. That's a question we get a lot. Wait, do I do seven and a half and she does Nope, cuz 15% of yours and 15% of hers becomes 15% of ours of

the total. So that makes it real simple.

I love that 15%. Don't overthink it. You don't need to do more at this point. You don't need to do any less. Keep it there and don't stop. Yes.

Um and then also understand your investing vehicles. So you were just saying that, George. So when you think about retirement, you guys uh do some research and figure out okay, at my workplace, do they offer a 401k or a 403b? These are great entire investing vehicles to be in um or is there even a

Roth option within it? Cuz Roth means that you it's after-tax dollars and the growth is tax-free when you take it out, which is huge. So if you ever see Roth, jump on that train. It's That's a good one. Um or maybe you know, you're doing a um a Roth IRA, you know, which is another great place to put your money.

A really simple investment, honestly.

>> can do that with their own income. So that's a good clarifying point. You're like, my employer doesn't have an IRA.

That's outside of your employer. So 401k, 403b, those are employer retirement plans. The IRA anyone can do if they have their own income. >> I think $7,000 this year in 2024 that you can put in. So they limit it.

But again, that's another one. So you guys you can sit down with somebody, a SmartVestor Pro or someone to open up, you know, especially like something like a Roth or mutual funds or other things. But you know, you can also go to Vanguard and say, okay, you know, looking into options. I mean like there's there's ways to do this, but just know when you when you open up an account, which again, if you sit down with a professional, which we recommend, they're going to help you with this.

They open up these accounts and they may put money in the account, but then they they don't go and take that and actually invest it.

>> to buy funds with it.

>> That's right. There's an extra step there. So just remember that.

>> It's just like a shell. You've bought you've you have a shell, but now you need to put some stuff in there to allow it to grow. So that's where it comes into choosing different types of investments. We've all heard of stocks and bonds.

Our favorite of these is mutual funds or even index funds. The word fund is the key here. A fund is going to hold a giant basket of those stocks, which helps you diversify and it doesn't put all of your eggs in one basket. >> we may be beating a dead horse as they would say, George.

But that but again, we're getting very simple here with this just so but we we want you guys to know this. Yeah, George does. He loves horses.

>> [clears throat] >> Oh my gosh. Uh is is within these accounts, your 401k at work, a Roth IRA, you're investing in mutual funds within that account. So just to be clear on that. >> Yes.

And so the next step would be picking an investment strategy. And we've mentioned that good growth stock mutual funds, that's the way to go to invest for the long term consistent growth. You're spreading that out among a lot of different companies. And even then we recommend four different types of funds.

And so we'll tell you more about that. I'll give you a great resource to check out. But the key here is diversification. That is why we do this.

That's right. Um and then next that'll be opening the account, kind of what we were saying earlier.

You know, and then you're going to do, remember this formula, Roth, no wait, match. Hold on. Oh no, I just messed it up. I messed it up, George. Roth >> Nope. Match. Start with the match.

>> gosh, match beats Roth beats traditional.

We got there. Oh lord have mercy >> on my soul. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So remember that formula because that's going to help guide you to say, okay, what should I do first?

So again, go up to your match in your 401k. If there is one. If there is one. And so say it's 4%.

Well, you have 15% you got to invest in. So you're going to put that so that means you have 9% of your income left to invest. That's when you're going to go over to a Roth IRA. Fund up to that.

If you max that out and >> Yes. Good lord. It's okay. I The cookie is messing with her.

It's I mean I get I get an Americano, I get a chocolate chip cookie and I go downhill. Um that's right. 11% left. Go back go to your Roth.

And if you max it out and you have more percentages left, go back to your 401k. But the beautiful thing would be a Roth 401k. Love That's what we have at Ramsey. And so for a long time that's what I was doing is just Roth 401k, all 15%.

That's the key. If you Hey, what should I do? All 15% of the 401k? Yeah, if you've got good options and low fees and it's a Roth, go for it. So that it's simple. Match beats Roth beats traditional. And again, this is regardless of the employer match. You were doing 15%. You don't do less because your employer has a match or they give you free money. Even if they give you free 4%, you still do 15%.

>> So the next step, the final step here is working with a pro to start investing and to keep learning. Rachel and I both have a a SmartVestor Pro in our corner as we call them. And the key here is you want someone in your corner who can educate you, who has the heart of a teacher, who can maybe help you avoid jumping off the ledge when the market's crazy, uh help you understand the trends that are happening and give you a full plan, not just with choosing a fund, but what about estate planning and tax strategy and kids college and making sure you have a holistic plan.

>> Yeah, cuz in our world today, I mean there's some stuff, I mean Vanguard's a great example, that you can do on your own, right? I mean very much so. But even if you do that, you guys, having somebody in your corner, and this is what Winston and I do, we meet every January with ours, to look at everything. They're looking at your entire financial life.

And so I think that's so so important that you're not doing this on your own because if you're making big decisions, to have somebody that's [music] yeah, from the tax standpoint, I mean all of it. Just they're seeing your entire financial picture, I think is really really important. >> third party in there. So if you want to learn more, we've got a great article that will that will put in the show notes in the description that explains [music] it all.

It's called how to start investing and it's on the Ramsey Solutions site. So go to the show notes, click the link in the description and [music] it's all free. We just want to help you guys build wealth with peace and confidence. >> to go drink more coffee, George.

>> She needs it.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze. And

in the Ramsey Solutions lobby on the debt-free stage, we've got some new friends, Nicholas and Devony. Welcome, guys. Hi. >> Hi. Thank you for having us. Absolutely.

Where are you guys from? So we're from Calera, Alabama, which is about 30 miles south of Birmingham. Wonderful. And all the way here to your debt-free scream.

How much did you guys pay off? We paid off $232,200.

Wow. And how long did that take? Four years. Nice.

>> Wonderful. And what was the range of income during that time? Uh we started at 82,000 and then up to 163,000.

Wow. >> That's incredible. >> the big jump? Well, our our buddy Ken Coleman would be proud. I took full advantage of the great resignation during COVID. Ah.

So we didn't have that big of a shovel or not as big as we would like. And so I just went job searching and

in less than a week, I found a job and it doubled my salary. Oh my gosh.

>> So are you one income family?

Um sort of. Sort of.

>> [laughter] >> When we paid off the house and she can go deeper into it in a minute, but when we paid off the house, she wasn't the happiest at her job and and I said, you know what? I'm paying off we're paying off the house today, you can put in your two weeks. That's incredible. >> the 238 was the house? Mhm. Well, it was

credit cards, car loans, student loans

and then the house. >> Everything and the house.

Congratulations, you guys. That's incredible. [clears throat] >> That's incredible. So four years ago, you guys had some credit cards, you had the mortgage, you were living normal.

What happened to get you on this Ramsey journey? Well, if you if you look back at it, that's right when COVID first hit. And you know, we had friends, family, you know, we just kind of saw people, you know, struggling and then you know, they turn on the TV, you see people losing their jobs, losing their livelihoods and we thought we were safe, but we just kind of said, what if, you know? And then we dug deeper into our finances and we were like, wow, we're in a mess.

And so we started chipping away at the credit cards.

We did side hustles. She was making she

started making like hair bows for little girls, selling those.

I did DoorDash for a while.

And we started selling stuff just around the house and and Rachel, you'll relate to this. Any old kids toys that we could find that were in one piece. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> We we'd put on Facebook Marketplace >> Good for y'all.

So we just we just made it happen and did whatever we could to get out. >> Dang. Wow. So there's sort of a pandemic panic.

You guys went, we're we could be like just like those guys 3 seconds from now. Let's get our affairs in order here. Yeah, and I prior to COVID, I was working from home anyway. So like I was safe, but I always think the worst thing is going to happen.

So I'm like, what if I lose my job? What if we both lose our jobs? And so we're like, we need to we need to get out. >> Isn't it amazing how you can carry that risk of debt for so long and until something really shakes it like a pandemic or something, do you realize, oh my gosh, it is risk.

Like these car loans, like all this debt that we're carrying, it is a level of risk that some of you people are used to, but the moment you start saying, wow, this really is a part of our lives that we want out. It's it's incredible. >> Absolutely. And she's, you know, I'm the saver, so it wasn't hard for me to get on board.

And she's the spender and so, you know, she's the one where it's like every day an Amazon box is Totally.

>> [laughter] >> Okay, Devony, how was this for you? This four years? Was it Was it hard? Was it once you got on board and you guys were working together, you're seeing the progress, it was good, but like how did it how did it feel overall?

Yeah, I mean it was definitely a little different at first, especially cuz right around that time our daughter was born and I had my first daughter and of course I wanted her to have all the cute girl things and all stuff like that. So it was definitely hard at first and then I stopped. I was like, okay, like she doesn't need this. And then I started like Nick said, I started making bows and stuff for girls hairs and she did not like them at all.

She wouldn't keep one on her head. So I was like, okay, this there's no point to buy this stuff. So I definitely got there.

took a little bit, but once I started, then I was like, "Oh, like this is great." Oh my gosh. Did you guys know about Ramsey and the baby steps at this point? How did you find out about this?

So, I just when the pandemic first hit, you

know, I pretty much just Googled, you know, getting out of debt and and how to you know, how to clean up this stuff and

and then I bought the Total Money Makeover, read it in one weekend, I think, and then we just kind of kind of just snowballed from there. That's amazing. >> Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah.

>> Wow. Okay, so what would you say to a young family that's listening and they have the car loans and the credit cards and they're just normal living life, but they're feeling like, "Oh my gosh, we want to change." What would you say the key of getting out of debt is?

Yeah, I mean I think for us, I mean you look at us, we're in our 30s and we did this, you know, we we hear people all the time, younger people, it's harder to live these days, you can't buy a house, you can't do this, but they're also hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and it's like, "Well, control what you can control." And so, I mean I mean Rachel, you know, you were born the year your parents filed for bankruptcy.

George, you went from negative net worth to millionaire in 10 years.

You look at us, we both grew up in less than ideal situations. Her parents got divorced when she was young. My parents got divorced when I was young. My dad passed away when I was 8 years old and he didn't have any life insurance. Mhm.

And so, I was raised by a single mother, no help, just trying to figure it out.

So, if we can do it, anybody can do it.

So good. >> And it's just the belief you can. Yeah, absolutely. >> And that's it. It's the belief that you can. That's incredible, you guys.

>> early 30s, on your way in baby step seven, what's the house worth?

So, well, we bought in January 2018

right before the housing market just went bonkers. >> Good time to buy. Yeah, yeah.

>> [laughter] >> So, I mean we we paid less than 200,000

for our house, about 190. And there is homes in our neighborhood selling for over 300 now. Wonderful. That's incredible. And so, you got that paid off and you've been investing in retirement. Yeah, yep, yep. So, now we're doing 15%. We're still trying to save up for the kids college and and all that and we're also cash flowing an international adoption right now, too.

So, this is not our complete family.

That's great. We love it. >> We are Yeah, we are hoping the adoption would be finalized when we came here, but it just kind of you know, worked out this way, but uh but yeah, so we're doing that, saving up for the kids college, investing and you know, we were at a negative net worth significant negative net worth 4 years ago and now we're on the path to be multimillionaires. That's unbelievable.

That's so fun. And when you have the margin to do things like you guys get to just cash flow this adoption with joy and peace instead of stress because you've also got payments. So, I love what when you turn money from an obstacle into a tool, it's amazing how your life changes and I'm so proud of you guys for being a living breathing picture of that. >> Yeah, absolutely.

And I told her, you know, it's she stuck with me these past 4 years and then I know it wasn't the easiest thing, so when we paid off the house, I said, you know, you just pick anywhere on the map and we'll go there for a trip. Oh, so where are you going to go?

>> [laughter] >> We we don't even know. >> a map out. Rachel's going to throw a dart. Yeah, we we've talked about, you know, Europe and you know, going or going on a cruise or whatever. We we don't know. We're going to Yeah.

We'll probably go on a couple trips, one with the kids and one with just us two.

Love it. I know and you have the kids with you. We did Yeah, bring them up.

What are their names and ages? Uh so, Brantley is our oldest, he's 7 and then

Cambry is 4. Oh, precious. Look how

cute. >> they've been practicing for the debt free scream. They're color coded. With the lavender [laughter] outfits. They look fantastic for those of you that can't see them. We'll get a family photo after this is done. That is that is wonderful. >> Here we go, guys. All right.

>> Nicholas and Devin and Brantley and Cambry. $232,000 paid off in 4 years, house and everything, making 82 up to 163.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. All right, Cambry, you ready?

You ready to lead us off? All right, go ahead in the mic. 3 2 1 WE'RE DEBT FREE!

>> [applause] >> That might win the award for cutest debt free scream I've ever seen. >> I just teared up. I was like, I was like, "Oh my gosh." What a performance.

And we've got a special gift for you guys, two EveryDollar Premium gift cards for a 1-year subscription. You can use one, you can renew with that, you can give it away to a friend to get them started on the journey.

And George, and just hearing their stories of even [music] the change that they've made from their childhood to now, what these kids are going to experience, it's absolutely incredible. Beyond the finances, I mean Early 30s, no mortgage in 4 years. Well done, you guys. Well done. It's possible for you, America. Are you willing to make those kinds of sacrifices [music] for 4 years?

I can do just about anything for that amount of time and I know you can, too.

It is worth it. [music] Look at that couple. Look at that journey. This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Psalms 37:21.

The wicked borrows, but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and

gives. Benjamin Franklin said, "Creditors have better memories than debtors." Oh. Huh. Some old school financial wisdom. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, Ben Franklin, he was doing well for himself, I feel like.

>> You know, the teeth the leg, I don't know what else he had. I don't know what he had going on, but he could afford it. The what?

>> I don't Did he have wooden teeth or something? That was George Washington.

Oh, dang it. Wasn't George Washington?

Guys, I'm not a historian. Listen, I'm not a geographer. >> I hate to I hate to call you out, George. What did you hear?

>> kill me, but that you didn't know who Margaret Thatcher was. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Ken told me that and I thought, "Oh, no, George, the Iron Lady." I didn't know this was stuff I'm Well, then Ken called me out for not knowing what a chain gang is in football. I was like, "Why I don't know what that is. Thank you and you know football. Sort of.

>> [laughter] >> I'm like, "Guys, I was busy, I don't know, having a life." >> Is that a thing? That is. >> It's the people who move the giant markers. >> Oh, but they call them a chain gang?

They had to have a cool name cuz it's not a very cool job. I don't know. Guys, this is why I stick to money questions.

I embarrass myself when I talk about historians and politicians and sports. I stay away from it all. I'll leave that to Ken Coleman. >> Well, the the latest fact history-wise, then we'll get to the phones, but >> Picasso? Yes.

Found out He died in 1972.

>> Died in 1973.

And Rachel was like, >> he was with Leonardo da Vinci. I thought he was part of the Renaissance. I had no [laughter] idea. Wow. >> He just died in the '70s, Picasso. I was like, "What?" I thought all those guys were back with Listen, I got Google.

>> Chapel. I don't know. I don't know. I'll just Google it if I need to know it, but until then, it doesn't sit in my brain.

Sorry. >> Picasso. I mean crazy. Anyways, that's my fact. That just blew my mind. All right.

>> Timeless, timeless. All right, let's get to the phones. We're we're better served there, Rachel, than talking about anything else. >> 401k's. Let's see if we can help Timothy in Los Angeles. What's going on, Timothy?

Hey guys, can you hear me? Yes, loud and clear. >> Okay, awesome.

Well, I tried to describe my situation, so um I got out of college in 2021 and just

got married and I had my associate's,

went to work for the past 2 years and

I'm currently making $20 an hour.

It comes out to about like 37 grand a

year after taxes and everything.

We had a we have one a 1-year-old daughter and we didn't really have any debt, but then my wife's car broke down and we decided to buy her a car last year.

cash value.

Um and [clears throat] then that car broke down and our warranty covered us to get a brand new engine on it.

So, we have that and then I decided to start a business last July and I'm generating through that business after after like in in profit, I'm bringing in about half of my income

um from that I make at my day job. Now, we did have about 8 grand in debt because

of that, starting a whole business and everything and then we just used our taxes to pay that back like substantially. So, now we

only have about 2 grand in debt. Total?

>> Um Yeah, well well, besides the car. The car is like we still have like $20,000 in the car. So, um And is your you have the only um income in the family right now? Yes, I my wife is a stay-at-home mom and the final thing was I was planning on going back to college this fall.

And I I get financial aid, so it'll probably be just as much as I'm making in my day job. But the only thing is we just got news and we're expecting twins.

Whoa.

Yeah. >> Congratulations.

Thank you. Wow. So, A lot going on here.

Yeah, this is the thing. We live in a small studio in the back house of her

mother's house.

So, it's already me, her, and our

1-year-old daughter. Now, we're expecting twins, and previously we were

pre-qualified to get a house. We actually live in Bakersfield. We were pre-qualified to get a house for about 150,000.

But, now you know, we with the car, we we don't even know if we don't even know what we're going to do. Do you have any money in savings?

We have We have nothing. We just started budgeting. I just started getting plugged in with the the Ramsey show about 2 weeks ago, 3 weeks ago.

Well, there there's an order for you to become a homeowner, and it's when you're debt-free with a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses, and you have a solid down payment. But, until then, I'm not going to get pre-qualified. >> rent right now, Timothy, or are you No, her her family's Yeah, her Yeah, she We're living there for free, so. >> Okay. Yeah. The The big question is, can you afford to continue living in California off a $40,000 salary?

Well, um I mean, I'm not sure. Um Like I said, I live in Bakersfield, so I mean, it's a little bit lower living expenses in LA. Um >> But, what would it cost you to go rent somewhere that could fit your family right now with the twins? Well, a small small would be like 800 800

bucks a month. And then, a little bit bigger would be somewhere along to 1,300 bucks a month.

This business you started, so you're you made 14,000 last year because you they made half of what you make normally.

Yes. So, well, actually I just started last July. So, now I'm averaging about four 400 bucks in sales a week, and take

home is 300 bucks a week.

Okay. >> After Yeah, after input and all that stuff. Okay. It's about 15 grand in take home from this business.

Yeah. >> see it scaling? Do you see it Yeah, it's growing substantially. It's It's scaling really fast.

I mean, and So, the reality, Timothy, I think is you're going to have two jobs. You're going to have this job that you're that you're growing, which is awesome, and hopefully it just skyrockets. I mean, that that would be the hope. And your day job, and you you're going to be working both of those, I think, for for a period of time until the car is paid off, and this $2,000 loan, until you guys get a good emergency fund.

Well, no, you know what? There's twins in the picture, so we're we're pausing everything. So, honestly, I would just stockpile cash at this point until the babies are here. Um and it's probably a high Is a twins high risk?

I mean, like they're you know >> Can be. So, I just I would be >> can be. Yeah, so all that to say, I would just be saving a crap ton. And once >> just be putting so much away.

Honestly, I mean, like that's that's going to be your best bet right now. And then, once the twins are here and everyone's good, then I would look at paying off this $2,000 business loan, paying off the car.

Yeah.

What's the car worth?

Well, see, it was $20,000 cash value,

right? Well, the engine the engine busted, and they put a brand new right off the right off the assembly line, a revised version of the the engine. And it was about $17,000 engine. But, I went to I went to see if we can Yeah, but I went to go see the if I I mean, I did an online like little quote, and it only came out to like 10 grand or something.

So, I don't know if I did it wrong, or maybe I should we should actually go into a dealer but to see what the price should be.

But, I mean, I mean, after all that, I just I just we My wife and I were willing to do what it takes to sell the car, but we're like Is it a Is it quality reliable car for the family, and it fits all the kids?

Yeah, it's it's a nice car. It's a Jeep Grand Cherokee um EcoDiesel, and it's it's it's a really nice car, so. >> Okay. Well, for now, I would work to just pay that off, and the debt snowball.

Once the twins are here, get the emergency fund in place, then you can think about going back to school, and making sure you can cash flow that. But, I don't think now is the time. >> No. No. Do you think that if I were able to grow the business large cuz because it's I grow sell and deliver microgreens. So, I'm only spending about about

12 hours a week doing You're saying if I did this full-time, it could replace my income? Yes. Yes.

>> Right now with your situation, it feels risky. If you can get the boat close to the dock later on, and you're like, "Oh my goodness, I could totally see how if I did this full-time, I could make more than I'm making in my cuz right now you're making your full-time salary plus the side money. If you jump to the side stuff, you're just going to replace your original income.

Yeah, yeah. That's true. >> better off right now financially with your situation, and I would work to go rent a place. Really, your goal is, can I make 6,200 bucks take home to afford the $1,300 a month in rent? And I would make the jump to go rent at that place.

Okay. Hope that helps, Timothy.

You got a the road ahead of you, man.

The twins alone, on top of the 1-year-old, it's about to be a party.

>> Yeah. >> So, wishing you guys the best in that.

Also, what a what a sweet blessing.

That's exciting. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze this hour. Thank you to all of the folks in the booth keeping the show going this hour. And you, America, we'll be back before you know it.

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## 52. Face Debt Head-On Before It Destroys Your Family | Best-Of for March 28, 2025


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today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz. She's also the co-host of another show we do together called Smart Money Happy Hour.

The number to call is8825-55225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. We'll help you take the right next step. And we'll try to make it entertaining, too, cuz you know, life's too short. Yeah. Yeah.

And money's fun. All this is fun. We can enjoy this. The world is heavy. And we're out here just making light of it all and showing you some a path forward, some hope. So Jeremy's going to kick us off across the border in Ottawa, Canada.

What's going on, Jeremy?

Oh, just trying to keep one foot in front of the other. How about yourself?

That's right, my friend. How can we help?

Well, uh hopefully with uh some answers to some money problems, but uh in a in a

nutshell, I uh uprooted my family and

and moved. Ended up taking about a 65% pay

cut. And uh now everything's just starting to pile up and pile up. And I I

want to know if it makes me a a deadbeat father if I uh if I move back to my old job where I'm making north of 150k

versus south of 50k just to keep all the all the bills paid and food in the fridge. What was the reason for you to uproot them and take this pay cut? It was clearly a big enough reason that you guys decided to do this.

Uh just to keep the family together, be a little bit closer to my partner's family. They're they're super close.

But uh Okay. And now you're realizing we can't sustain this financially with our lifestyle, our bills, and our much lower income. This is stressful for us even though we're closer to family.

Exactly. Is are you in a when you moved

away, how far away are you from where you guys moved? Because when you say to go back to my job, does that mean move again to go back to the old job or you could do something different with where you guys live now?

Uh, it's 3,000 miles and I was told if

uh if I go back, I'm going back by myself. Whoa. Like an ultimatum?

Yeah.

Um, does she understand what's going on

financially at all? How how is she feeling? Is she stressed about it?

Uh she knows that it's not well, but I'm

she's kind of blind to it and she uh she

just took a different job to work less hours, too. How? Which isn't helping anything. Okay. When you say she's blind to it, does that mean that she doesn't have all the information or she has all the information, but the way she's processing it is not correct in reality?

Uh I think she's just ignoring the the

issue.

Okay. How much are you guys in the whole a month financially with after everything's paid? How much how much more do you need?

Uh I don't know. She doesn't tell me what uh what her expenses are. Okay. So

you guys don't have any finances combined?

No. Are you are you legally married or

just cohabitating? Uh just we're uh we're common law and we got two two little ones. Okay. And bank accounts are separate. Do you guys Venmo each other for the mortgage? How does this work?

Uh, I take care of the mortgage in in one vehicle and she does the rest. Okay.

And she's not feeling the stress of this financially. Just you?

Uh, no. She uh she is too because

apparently she hasn't been able to uh to make her minimums either. Okay. So, it's sounding more like a relationship issue.

Jeremy, it sounds like you guys just aren't doing well as a couple in general. I don't know if money is the main issue. I think it's become a symptom of it. But you guys, it doesn't sound like you guys communicate well or or have the same goals or or um do this

life together very well. It seems very separate even from an emotional standpoint. Is that right?

It's it's getting there, that's for sure. Well, it sounds like you went along with this to appease her, to be closer to family, knowing full well you guys were going to be in the hole financially. And I don't know if you didn't make that clear or if she just was blind to it as you said and just going I don't care. We're making this move. We'll figure it out. Pretty much.

Well, there I don't know who your God is, but you need to come to Jesus conversation where you go, listen, you're clearly not doing well financially. I'm not doing well financially. This family's not doing well financially. And life is too short to live with this kind of stress.

So, if we're going to stay here, we have to make it work. And here's what that's going to take. And that's when we lay out the finances together. get on a budget together and figure out what the hole is and how we're getting out of it.

And that might mean you need to find a higher paying job. She needs to work more hours. We need to combine bank accounts.

Okay. And if if that doesn't work, like

should I jump back out to uh to my old

jobs just so that I know that my kids are fed? I mean, that's the noble thing to do. I don't think it helps your marriage at all or with this common law situation you have going on. So, you're going to grow further apart um while keeping the kids fed. And so, I'd rather keep the kids fed though where you guys are to be able to work on the relationship and get a higher paying job where you are or can you sell the car and make other sacrifices to cover your four walls for now?

Uh the car is upside down by about 15.

Do you know what she makes at all?

Uh, she's supposed to make 85 a year, but she has a habit of not going to uh

to work. Wouldn't you get fired if I don't show up to work enough? Dave says, "All right, we're going to find someone else who can actually do this job."

Well, uh, she, uh, works in healthcare, so they're they're begging for people to to work there. And what do you do?

Uh, I'm in the construction.

Okay. You What were you doing before when you were making six figures?

Uh, I was uh I was working in a in a mining industry and that industry obviously doesn't exist where you're at.

No. Is there an equivalent or is there a better construction job up the ladder that you can aim toward?

I've I've progressed up the uh up the ladder in my company a little bit already. And the uh the next step would

be to uh become a supervisor, but that's

at least a year and a half out cuz I've I've asked my boss for more hours and if he would be able to give me give me a wage increase and I he just said that I'm I'm not there yet. Okay. So, Jeremy, I think what it comes down to is you guys aren't paying your bills. I mean, what what's happening financially?

There's an issue. So the adult thing is

that you both sit down together and say here's what it takes to run our household and we have to make x amount every month for this to happen. And we don't get to decide that we don't feel like doing that. That has to happen. So either we're cutting our freaking lifestyle and taking everything off the table and doing nothing in order to feed the kids or we're going to have to

decide different jobs. We're going to have to choose to move back. like we don't get to just sit and not make money and not pay our bills like that. Like we can't do that. So that's not an option.

We're adults and this is part of life.

And so that's one thing. But the other thing I'm very concerned about, Jeremy, is the relationship. I mean I mean I it just it sounds bizarre to me that she's so in the clouds um that she wants nothing to do with you financially and she's made that very clear. My question is why?

Because longterm this is not a sustained relationship. You cannot live your life on two separate pages financially because what that is, it's an indicator of how your relationship is in general and you guys are going to just keep moving further and further apart and you guys have two kids together. So, it's worth the fight. But you first from a tactical standpoint have to get enough money in to pay the bills and you both have to come to that understanding and if she is so in the clouds in that then she may not be a great partner long term because she's probably in the clouds on everything else.

So um so there has to be some big decisions that are going to be really difficult but you both have to step up as adults and decide to face it together.

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800356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Rachel Cruz. If you want to check out some other shows that we produce, you can check out the George Camel YouTube channel and of course the Rachel Cruz Show on YouTube and podcast and it's all on the Ramsey Network app if you want to check that out as well. All right, let's

go to null in El Paso, Texas. Null, did

I get that right? Me, you did. Okay, wonderful. How are you doing? Um, doing

all right. Taking it one day at a time as best as I can. How can we help today?

What's going on? So, essentially,

uh, my question is, um, you know, I've

been listening to your show, uh, for a few days. I've been binging on it quite a bit now. um couple your other podcasts and and uh you know I've been contemplating bankruptcy. Uh it's it's

been something that's in my mind over the course of the last couple months. Um and I'm just trying to see if it's a better option to throw in the towel and do that or to continue attacking my debt

aggressively um based on what I've learned so far on the show.

Sorry to hear that. Well, lay this out for us. How much do you make and how much debt do you have? Okay, so um I

make approximately I got two sources of income. Uh one is my job which gives me roughly about 81,000 a year and then the other one's disability compensation which is about 56,000. So rough about 122,000 130,000 a year. Okay. And then

as far as debt is concerned, uh I have about 80,000 in debt. Three of them are

personal loans. Well, two of them are personal loans, one's my vehicle, and then the rest is on credit card debt.

Okay. What are the amounts for all those? So, the the most expensive one is

$38,000. Um, that one has about a $616

payment per month. Um, and it's stretched out over 16 uh 15 years. What which which debt is that? That one was a

home improvement loan that I took out um

back in 2022. I was in the middle of a remodel. Okay. of my house. All right.

And so I I took that money for a remodel. Okay.

And the second personal loan, the second personal loan was a debt consolidation loan. It's roughly about $29,000. And then the third one is the vehicle. The uh my truck, which is about $26,000. And then the credit card debt is roughly about another 10 or 13,000.

Okay. How much is the car worth? The truck.

The truck is worth about 57K.

It's worth $57,000.

Yes. Good. And you owe 26. Correct. I

like where this is going. Do you see where this is going?

I do see where your recommendation is going to be. Explain to me why you need this truck when you're on the verge of bankruptcy.

Because I'm in construction uh and I I I

need the truck to be able to get through the construction. I just checked Google.

They make $20,000 trucks.

They do. Um, but I work in heavy civil

civil engineering construction, so I need something that can tow the amount of weight that I need to be able to tow.

And you're telling me there's no $25,000 truck that can tow that amount probably.

So, it's probably going to be about 15 years old. I'm okay with that. You're on the verge of bankruptcy. You just told

us you got here because you were unwilling to have delayed gratification.

Sacrifices weren't made and you made

some poor financial decisions. And this is the one on the list that you can undo if you're willing to drive a 15-y old truck for a season so that you can avoid bankruptcy.

Okay. What's the truck payment?

It's uh 583 a month. So, you would have

an extra 600 bucks a month to go toward your debt, correct? Yes. I mean, do realize that if if you're going to file bankruptcy, they're going to liquidate and get as much as, you know, Yeah. possible anyway. So, I mean, this this this could all be on your terms and it's going to be uncomfortable and it's not going to

look the way that you've been handling your money, but something has to change.

So, of course, your life is going to look different if you start making different decisions with money. And and it's not going to be easy. Um because I mean a little bit of the easy route is is the debt route. You kind of can get what you want when you want it. And you know that's how majority of people live.

But you're finding that it's causing stress. You're calling us for a reason

because you're not happy with where you are financially. So something does have to change. So your mindset around money regardless of work and construction and

weight. I mean all of that like if you're in this desperation part you know if you get to this place in your life you're willing to do anything like anything and I don't I don't know if you

feel that or want to experience that.

I just been through a lot of suffering over the last year.

Um and it's not necessarily the whole truck thing. It's just yeah what's what's been going on

the what what caused me to call to make all these poor financial decisions I suffered a traumatic event back in November 2022 where my son passed away um sorry and so that caused me to sell my house uh and when I sold my house it was in the middle of a remodel um and I

ended up being upside down about $18,000 so I had to pay $18,000 to sell a house

um and then I moved my daughter and I across Ross the country to bring my my son to his his birthplace to bury him.

Um and I had to start all over again. So

that's what caused me to take out, you know, the that consolidation loan for 27 or $29,000. Um and I I had a paid off truck. My truck was paid off. I had a 2500 Ram that was paid off and I traded that in to get this vehicle because it was a 4x4 and it had more pooling power.

Um I hear you. Then I ended up buying a I had to buy another house. Uh but it wasn't a house. I bought a mobile home.

That was another $121,000 uh there. So, you know, I I I spent a

couple hours on on the budget app yesterday that the every dollar uh spent app. And for some reason, it's telling me that I have $2,600 worth of margin every month left over. Um that's with

your minimum debt payments, all of your expenses. That's what it should be.

That's Yeah. I mean, I put everything in there. all the payments that I'm making and still says I got $2,600. And don't get me wrong, I I've paid off close to about $3, $3,500 worth of credit cards, full credit cards in the last 30 days, and you know, just just trying to to do what the Ramsey method is telling me to do.

Um, you know, and I'm putting $40 away every every week in savings to try to get to that $1,000 savings to, you know, in my underwear drawer to to keep it there for a rainy day.

outside of the truck, I added it up. I mean, if you sell the truck, you'll have $80,000 in consumer debt based on what you told us. Yes. And so, you had said

80 at the top, but you got 80 plus the $26,000 truck loan. That puts you at six figures in debt. And I'm trying to help.

What's that? That's including That's including it. The 26,000. What was the first loan you said? The home improvement loan. 38,000. Yeah. 38,000.

29,000. 29 plus 10 29,000 plus 13 in

credit cards plus 26.

Yeah. And then according to credit karma is telling me I got 13 uh in credit cards. But and I'm telling you with a

calculator it's coming up at 80 and that's without your car loan. So I just want you to have a real

picture of what your finances are at.

And that's why I'm so desperate to get you to get rid of this truck and downgrade to number one free you of $26,000 today before your truck goes underwater. Almost every call people are underwater on their truck. So when you said this truck is worth 57 and you owe 26, I was doing back flips because it gave me some hope that you can get out of this faster than you think.

And if you do that and then do the debt snowball, every extra dollar outside of food, utilities, uh, shelter, transportation, insurance goes toward that 80,000 you have remaining, smallest to largest balance. I think you can get out of this. You make great money. You're a smart guy who works hard and and and know that I mean, from that information that you just gave us about this last year, which is just the most horrific thing that I could ever imagine is is losing a child.

So, I can't even I can't even imagine what that grief does, there's a there a fog that is there. And when you make financial decisions, usually in that time soon after something like that happens, they're always they're sometimes not the best.

That's to kind of free you to say, hey, yes, you as you look back like, wow, those may not have been the best decisions. I don't blame you for that because of what you walked through, but I do want to make sure that there's a level of healing that you're getting from this um and that the money is that secondary piece. But I do um I pray that for you, Noel. I'm so sorry.

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay, because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions for one thing are uh nonprofit, which means

that the members, the customers own the

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

And and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and um the deals that they're offering. The Ramsay tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding.

It took less than 5 minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.

So, I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, "Yeah, they give calls to every new customer." And so, again, they just really care about your experience. And I I so so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

how much I hate banks in general. And so, for me to do this is a big deal.

talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsay tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds, no matter where you live. So, go to fair

winds.org/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author George Camel. We're taking your calls. Up next, we have Shondaanda in Cleveland. Hey, Shondaa. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hi guys. Hello. Hello. I have Hi.

Can you hear me? Yes, we can. We can.

Oh, okay. Thanks for calling. Yeah. How can we help?

Yes. I have money stress. I have um I'm

I have an income of like 22

$24,000. But I have two collection agencies. Um one is 5,000 which could

pay um I only have 2,000 more to pay for

that one collection agency. and the other one is 8,000. And I don't know what to do or begin to pay that

um that debt. I don't even know where to begin. I haven't talked to that um collection agency at all cuz I don't know what to do cuz I I don't have no money to pay them. And uh a driveway that needs to be fixed, that's like 20,000 they say. So that's an upcoming

expense. That's not debt, right?

Yeah, that's what I've come in. Okay.

What other debt do you have?

Um, I have student loans that's uh

50,000, a car loan that's

11,000. A home loan that's

75,000 and I was like um one month

behind. I think I just caught up. And

um let's see. um credit card. That's

$200 $200 dollars minimum payment or

that's the total? Yeah. No, that's the total. So, I was going to pay them off when I next time I get paid. Okay. How

old are you?

I'm 53. Okay.

What are you doing for work right now?

That's insistent, but I feel like I I'm overwhelmed. I don't know what to do.

And I know y'all say don't play the lottery, but that's I've been trying to do that. Oh no, don't step. I don't know what else to do. Convenience store, a gas station. Stay far away. How many hours a week are you working? That's right.

Um like 40 hours. And then sometimes I

pick up on my off days. Okay. So I'm working. I'm working. And you're doing what again? I'm sorry. Say it one more time. Nursing assistant. Nursing assistant. But you're only making $24,000 working as a nursing assistant.

and working 40 hours a week.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Um Yeah. I mean, I think the the

first thing to be looking at because what's your degree in because you have some student loans.

Yeah. Um well, I went to school for different Well, I really went to school

and didn't really get much of a degree.

I got Okay. one degree. And how long you been paying on these student loans?

for years and haven't made a dent. And I mean, you

know, during co they didn't they wasn't taking any payments during CO. They were sending your money right back. Are you single?

Yes. Okay. Well, there's some simple steps you can take that are tactical to help you, but it's going to take sacrifice.

It's going to take making more, spending less, all of that. Um, so here's the thing with the collections. You've got to talk to these people. We can't bury our head in the sand. And even if you call them and say, "Listen, I can't pay you. I make $10 an hour and I got a lot

of bills and a lot of people who want to get paid and so I need to keep the lights on." So your one priority is food, utilities, shelter, transportation. We call that the four walls.

Nothing else gets paid before those get paid. I don't care who the debt is to, what the collectors are saying. You got to keep the lights on, keep the mortgage paid so that you don't get foreclosed on

and eat something too. And so beyond that, you got to make your insurance payments. We need to keep all of that to protect us and then we can start tackling the debt. But clearly there's not much to tackle it with because you have no money left after making minimum payments, right? That's right. So I mean, so what do I tell them or what do I do? Do I write a letter? Do I call

them? I'd call everyone you owe debt to and say, "Listen, I want to pay you, but I don't have any money. I make $10 an hour. I'm six figures in debt. I'll pay you when I can and what I can, but right now I'm flat broke." Okay. Yeah. And then on the income sign, Shondaanda, I mean, I honestly I mean, I was, you know, Walmart, Target, like these places are paying up to 20 an hour. Like, you could double your hourly

rate by working somewhere else. I think you're going to need a different job. I just don't this job is not going to be able to sustain you and you're working 40 hours. So I'm like you're you have a you know a great work ethic but that energy is going to something that's not giving you your rate of return of what you need right now.

And so and places like Walmart, Target, some other places, I mean they have great benefits like they really do a great job in helping their employees. So I honestly would be switching jobs. You have to make more. You can't be living on this.

Is there a path for you to make more in the nursing assistant world?

Well, I don't know of um like the hospitals or something like that. I don't know how much they I would do some homework and research and talk to people who are in these fields in these positions and ask them the path and what it's going to cost and what it's going to take and how long.

Yeah. Because longterm you need a solution. Yeah. agency pays I mean some I mean I guess the agency but beyond the agency you know as a as a certified nursing assistant you should be able to make 30 to 40 versus

22 and with your experience I'd imagine this wouldn't be a huge leap and so I would just at least start to do some homework I know life has got you down but this is the time the next 10 years we need to be really getting focused get the income up get rid of this debt and have no mortgage payment and Sean to start binge watching some of our debtree screams um here on the YouTube channel or even podcast, but go through and and

watch some of these stories because I know it feels like you're in such a hopeless situation. Uh and numbers wise, it does feel hopeless, right? And and so we want that some of that to change with your income and starting to get a grapple on this debt. Um but just know that there is an there is a way out.

It's just going to it's going to look different than probably what you've done in the past and that's okay. But there's people that do it every day. So continue to to feed your mind with this stuff. If you hold on the line, Shondaanda, Austin's going to pick up and I want to give you Financial Peace University.

It's our nine lesson course on money just to get you the basics. We'll throw in every dollar premium as well, which is our our budgeting app. Uh and they have a great tutorial there when you sign up there to really walk through and teach you there.

do a budget. Uh and also go ahead and throw in Total Money Makeover, too. And that's that's Dave Ramsey's bestselling book and it's the seven baby steps. Um I just want to get some some knowledge um of this plan in you Shondaanda and I want you to just like soak all this up because it's going to kind of be a different world that you'll be navigating with money.

It's going to look different but I want you to have motivation and people behind you cheering you on. And even if it's us on YouTube cheering you on and and giving you some encouragement through other callers or watching their stories, I want that for you because I want you to know that that this can change. It's going to be different. It's Yeah, it's going to be different from what you've done.

And it's going to be hard. None of this is easy. None of this is easy, but it is possible. I'm going to throw even one more thing just because I feel for Shondaanda.

I'm gonna gift you a free coaching session with a trained Ramsey financial coach who can walk through all of this with you, help you with the collection side, navigate this wild journey, help you make a plan with the debt snowball. Um, just cuz we can't do that in a radio call. And I really want Shondaanda to have hope cuz I know a lot of older caller, there's older people out there listening who are in their 50s, Rachel, and they're going, "Well, I'm in her shoes. There's no hope for me." And it takes it's harder to do as you get older.

It's just hard. Deeper habits that are you have to break. The mistakes have been compounding for years. The debt's been sitting around for years is in collections.

So, hang on the line.

So, that's that's a big part of the problem is Yes. And it feeling hope and getting a game plan. That's right. And you know, we talked to to people Yeah.

in their 50s, 60s, sometimes in their 70s, right? And they're they don't have anything for retirement. and they're trying to figure this out. And and even though it's a hard hill to climb to say, "Okay, I'm going to buckle down.

I'm going to I'm going to learn something new, change what I've been doing, sacrifice, take on that extra job." Like all of that is hard, but it's also hard to go into retirement with nothing if you continued down that path. Right. So, it's one of those things like you choose your hard. Yeah.

And one heart's actually going to be able to give you money when you start working a plan and get out of debt and be able to have some level of control over your life versus not at all. Right? So don't give up, Shondaanda. You got this, Shondaanda.

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netswuite.com/ramsey. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. This is the Ramsey Show. And if you enjoy this show, you should check out Smart Money Happy Hour co-hosted by myself and Rachel Cruz.

We have a blast. And if you need to like send someone the show that's not too heavy, too intense, Smart Money Happy Hour is it's a breath of fresh air. There's lots of laughs and you kind of we sneakily teach you money things while you don't even know it. You don't even know.

It's like a what? Our writer Savannah said she was at the nail salon and some Gen Z girls were like, "Hey, you know that Dave guy?" She's like, "Yeah." She's like, "Well, his daughter has a really cool podcast.

You're talking about Smart Money Happy Hour at the nail salon. Current events, pop culture, and money. Rachel's like the cool sister. It's the best. And I'm the cool uncle, I guess. Uncle George.

That's right. All right. Gabriella is up next in Macallen, Texas. Gabriella, what's going on? Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call. So, my question is, "My

exboyfriend left me with an RV payment and I do not want to pay it." Oh my

gosh. So, what happened you guys? So, he

took it to go work and could no longer afford the payment on it and left it to me last weekend and was like, "Here you go. Here's the RV with the payment." What do you mean left it to you? Whose name is on the loan? It is under my

name. We were together for 10 years. Um,

I got it for for him to he had to go

work in the oil field and um he we split

up about a year ago and he he can't afford it anymore. He so he brought it back to me and I'm left with it. Oh no.

Shoot. Mhm. Well, Gabriella, you'll

never do that again, will you? I've learned my lesson. Oh no. You know, we talked to somebody earlier in the hour and her and her boyfriend, well, fiance, they don't really have a date.

I don't think a wedding date we asked. But yeah, both their houses, their names are on the deed of the house. And I just thought, "Oh, no, no, no, no." So, you're a great uh I guess poster child of what can happen when you sign on to debt and buy things with people you're not married to. And I'm so sorry.

I mean, on top of the hurt from this long-term relationship over and it was a year ago, though. So now you're like, "Well, crap.

48,000 and looking it up, it's worth

around $30,000.

So you're $18,000 underwater

basically. For some reason, they took a like the prices in RVs were just expensive when I bought it and have dropped. Well, that's been the theme on

the show for the last week or month is everyone is underwater on vehicles and things with wheels because it was really expensive and they had good intentions and then the market turned and now everyone's underwater. So, there's only two ways to go about this. Number one is you need to come up with the $18,000 in cash in order to sell it and pay off the loan. Or number two, you go get a personal loan for the difference of that $18,000 to get out from under this. Do you have any money?

Uh yeah, I have around 10,000 in savings. Good. And any other debt?

Yeah. Well, yes, I have a mortgage. Um I pay my vehicle, but my vehicle is actually a lease. And um I hadn't

learned my lesson at the time, but I have a bedroom set under under my name that somebody else owes about $3,000 of

that. Really no credit card debt. Um somebody else owes

Yes, it's under my name, so technically I owe it, but And are they paying are they paying on it or you're Yes and no.

Okay. Oh gosh. Is this Is this family?

Is it a friend that you like said, "Hey, I'll It's family. It's a family member." Oh gosh. I think you need to stop being generous with money you don't have, Gabriella. That's what's been happening.

It's a theme in your life. You sound like such a sweet, wonderful person. And now, how much do you make a year? Uh so this year I made so I'm actually a nurse and with co um I made really good money

uh 2022 kind of gone down some. So this

year I made 133 but it will probably

drop again this year because uh there's no more COVID crisis. So that's just how it works. Not if I can help it. You're going to be out there busting your tail over time doing Uber Eats and Door Dash

and Instacart, whatever it takes.

You're climbing out of this thing. And uh I think you're you're not scared of work, which is great. And uh we got to start with the smallest debt here, which it sounds like is this bedroom set.

Yeah. I think you just pay it off. And if they ever pay you any more for it, great. You can apply that. Don't expect it. Just don't wait with it. Yeah. Be be done with it. Okay. Even if it's um zero interest, I should pay that one off. Especially if it's zero interest. All of it. Okay. We're done with payments.

We're done with debt. You make too much. You're too successful and you're too smart to ever do this stuff again regardless of the interest rate.

Does that track Gabriella? Are you with us on this? Yes. We we are team Gabriella. And so we want you to win and

that's going to mean you have, you know, if you count up all your debt and if you want to get out of the lease, you can look at the early buyout amount and uh see if that's going to be worth it for you to do now. Uh otherwise, you turn the car in and then you need to go get another car. But don't just get another lease.

Okay? It's the most expensive way to get a vehicle and dealerships love it because they make the most money off of these leases. Okay. So, no more leasing.

No more leasing. Buy your next car with cash, which is going to be When is the lease up? Um, in about two more years.

Okay. Yeah. I would look at the early buyout. I would just kind of do some research in that. But then in the meantime, between now and two years, be saving some cash. Um, knowing that you're gonna have to replace this car.

But I would take, yeah, this 10 grand, Gabriella, I would pay off the um, Yep.

the bedroom set. Uh, and then the You're

looking at the 18 that you'll probably have to take a loan out for uh, for the remainder of that RV after you sell it.

Okay. So, I shouldn't give it back to the bank and then let them sell it and then me pay the difference.

You're saying to have the RV repossessed?

Yes. I wouldn't do that. No, I wouldn't do that because that would go on your credit. I would Yeah, I would I would just find the private sale. Um Okay.

List it, sell it yourself, get as much as you can for it, obviously, and then Yeah, you'll have to have have a loan for the difference, and then you'll be working your way out of that.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I wish we had better news. The good news is you make great money. You make six figures. We've seen bigger, scarier numbers than this. Yeah.

But it's the hurt and shame and guilt and baggage and oh my gosh, I'm so stupid. You got to just pick yourself up and go, listen, that doesn't define me.

I'm going to make different decisions. Gabriella, is it just you? Are you single kids? Yes, it it's just me and my

two girls. Okay. So, you do have two girls. Okay. How old are they? I have a

nineyear-old and a three-year-old. Okay.

So sweet. That's so great. Okay, so what you're probably going to be doing, I mean, where you can work extra and even if it's, you know, at night online or something like if there's like something that you can do to find that extra money. But with this 133, I mean, I would act like I would I would tighten everything up and I mean, give yourself

a goal to say I'm going to act like I make 70,000 a year or whatever it is.

and then find that difference to to have an end point to say, "Okay, I could be completely debtree, be done with all of this and start fresh, not owing anyone

anything and and start this whole process." I'm like that that you could do this in in 18 months, Gabriella. I mean, if you really focused and did this, um the car lease, you know, kind of hangs in the balance of what you decide there, but being able to have no payments and this income going to you and your girls and you guys keeping all of it, that's the goal we want for you.

Have you been through Financial Peace University?

No. Okay. So, if you hold on the line, Skylar is going to pick up and we're going to gift that to you as as well as Every Dollar Premium, which is our budgeting app. And so, what I want you to do, Gabrielle, is wa is watch these lessons, even binge them.

Uh there's going to be seven lessons. And I want you to go through and and watch all of this and really get a game plan to say, "Okay, here is how I take control of my money." And what that's going to teach you is everything from budgeting to getting out of debt to saving up for an emergency fund uh to investing to your kids college. I mean, it kind of runs the gamut of everything and it's all packaged in there. And so to be able to walk through that and apply this stuff, Gabrielle, because what you've already witnessed and experienced is that money, it's personal finance, it's 80% behavior.

You're going to watch these videos and be like, I knew that. I knew I shouldn't probably co-signed some furniture for a family member. I know that I probably Okay, now okay, you know, you're going to get all that, but actually changing the behavior and doing it is going to be the key to you winning. And I believe in you. I know you can do this, Gabriella.

We're we're cheering you on. So, hold on the line. Skyler will pick up. That's the theme of this hour. Don't spend money you don't have, especially with people you're not married to. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. My thanks to my co-host Rachel Cruz, all the folks in the booth, and you, America. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back before you know

[Music]

it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruz. This is your show, America. Give us a call

at88255225. you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money and we'll try to help you take the right next step when it comes to your biggest life's decisions and maybe smallest. You know, it can be a first world problem. We're down to chat about that, too. We're here for everything. No problem, too small.

Kenneth kicks us off in Houston, Texas.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show, Kenneth.

Hello. Hey, how you doing? Um, I'm doing

fine for now. What's going on?

Um, so I'm current currently in a

situation where I'm living in my car. I

started in November um because I racked

up about $14,000 in credit cards. Oh

man. And I have 16 on my car as well. So

16 16,000.

Yes. On my car. Okay. Where were you living before this?

Um, I was actually living in an apartment with my cousin and her boyfriend, but they decided to get their own place, so I ended up in a car.

And right now, you can't afford rent because of the debt.

Yes. Um, it's taking about half of my paycheck every two weeks and my car

payment is $3.46. So, I'm left with about $200. So, I am I started this uh debt

snowball and I managed to pay off one credit card, but it's uh it's still not

enough. Not not enough. It sounds like we need to get your income up. Are you working full-time right now? Yes. Yes, I

am. Um I actually uh I'm I submitted

applications to places. Um, I still

haven't have uh like I haven't heard back yet. So, what are you doing right now for work? Um, I'm a sterilization

tech. Um, I clean dental instruments.

Okay. What do you make doing that? Um, I

make 18 an hour. Um, on my W2, it said I

made 32,000 this year. Okay. And you're

working 40 hours a week.

Um, it's between that. Uh, we work half days on Fridays, sometimes full days.

So, between 36 and 40. Can you work extra if you chose to?

Yes, I'm currently looking. Okay. I would see if you can work overtime with your sterilization job. On top of that, getting another job on the side. Um, I mean, $18 an hour is not nothing. And so, it feels like it's not just a car loan. What's your minimum payment on the credit cards?

Um, altogether, um, it is over 500, 529.

I have a spread between seven.

And you have uh do you have any friends or family that you could have to help support you? Go live with some friends for now. Crash on a couch, anything like that?

Friends? Uh no. Uh family I do they have

offered, but um uh the environment for me around them

is I I do not enjoy. So, I rather stay

in a car instead of having my emotional

well-being. Are you safe living in this car? Where are you actually staying?

Um, so I stay around around near my job.

Um, so far nothing has happened. Um, I I

believe I don't know how many months, like four months now. Are you able to

shower and how how are you doing all of that? Um, so I actually have a gym membership.

Um, so showering, um, doing whatever I

need to do, I can handle that at the gym. Okay. Um, Kenneth, how much is your car worth?

Um, it's I checked on Kelly Blue Book.

It's at 12,000 the last time I checked.

Okay. Worth 12,000. Okay. You owe 16 some change. Yes. Yes. And um no money

saved.

No. No. And the because my biggest

concern right now, Kevin, for you Yeah.

is what kind of George was hinting at, but it is your living situation. I mean, one of these, you know, four walls is what we say, food, shelter, utilities, transportation. Like these are things that um are necessities. Those are

needs, and you're lacking obviously one of those. So, the family situation,

um, would it be could like is there a

way to at least have a roof over your head and give yourself a time frame and

say within 90 days, I'm going to be out

of here and looking for my own place, but just for the, you know, just the the the bare necessity of, you know, having having a home, that's what I I just worry for you when it comes to that is just having a place to stay.

Well, the place um at my family's place,

I would have to uh pay rent, which is not much, but it would I wouldn't have any left to put towards my credit cards.

So, right now, if you're working 40 hours a week at 18 an hour, it's about 2,900 bucks a month before taxes. So, how much is getting taken out of these paychecks?

Are you actually looking at the paychecks and seeing where it's going?

No. Um I know that about 180 is being

taken out for insurance, but taxes wise

um I have not checked. Okay. I would go look at that. Make sure you're not taking out too much in taxes. Uh make sure that you're not putting any money away into investments. Right now, every dollar you can get out of those paychecks needs to go to covering your four walls like Rachel mentioned. Yeah.

Because besides the you have the car payment, the credit cards, but you should have around $2,000 left cuz you

got about 900 in payments.

Uh that's what it's looking like. I get

each paycheck. Uh it depends. Um I get

about the minimum at least 1,60 each

month. I mean each every two weeks.

Okay. So the first thousand covers your debt payments. Where's the other thousand going?

I have no idea.

Okay. So, I think that's that's going to be a that's a key piece to this, Kenneth, because $1,000 I'm like that's a significant amount, right? So, I would want you um to be tracking and knowing

like this is exactly where every single dollar is going, right? And even just going back to the basic of a budget. Um, and we can, if you hold on in the line, we'll give you every dollar premium. Um,

to be able to figure out so specifically

where that is because I don't want you Yeah. I don't want you behind on payments.

In a perfect world, I want you to be able to to have enough money to pay rent somewhere. Um, and you need to be working every weekend. I was going to say weekends and even nights, Kenneth, it's going to be exhausting, but you're I mean, you're you're going to have to dig yourself out of this hole. And one of the I mean, the two ways to do that is income and expenses, right?

Those are the two parts of the equation. So, upping the income, lowering the expenses, uh, is going to is going to help you gain some traction.

Uh, no. It's it's too much for me right

now. Um, like auto insurance. I can Yeah, for the minimum for me is 400. So,

why is that? I can You have a bad driving record?

No, my driving record's good. Um, it's just been like that. Uh, the lease I

have paid is 300. Maybe it's cuz I I was

in an accident, but it wasn't my fault.

Kenneth, you need auto insurance, man.

Even if it's 300 bucks. You're in a very risky position right now. Jump on ramiesolutions.com, connect with one of our insurance pros to help you with that. And hang on the line.

We'll send you every dollar premium to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars. Wishing you the best. Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw.

And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it. But we were able to dig ourselves out, and you can, too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution.

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I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. Open phones

at88255225. Call us and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Jennifer's in New Orleans up next. What is going on?

Jennifer.

Hi. How are y'all doing? Well, how are you? Great. How can we help today?

So, um, I have a 17-year-old son, almost

18, and we've pretty much raised him on FPU principal since he was about six or seven years old. And he is in a pretty

serious um, healthy relationship with a

young lady that we do really like. And I know it may seem like too early to tell or anything like that. And we're not the kind of parents that's like, "Oh my god." But, you know, you have You're hopeful she might be the one. I'm pretty sure. So, um, you know, not anytime in

the near future, but she is she is set

on being an orthodontist and sounds expensive.

Exactly. That is my question of how to

approach this with them. We have talked to him just briefly. The conversations have just started. He does think it's dumb to take out student loans.

Um, she's briefly said that she's totally fine with having $250,000 of student loans that might take her 20 years to pay off because that's what usually what orthodontists have. And I kind of briefly said that you guys may not even be afford to eat. And I just don't know how else to approach this um besides maybe getting them to watch the borrow future, take foundations and finance, but you know, it's just starting. Yeah.

Well, a lot of this stems from how she grew up with money and what her parents believe about money, right?

That's what we've been talking about with him. Yeah. And I think it's it's I

mean, he's getting to the age he's 17, almost 18. Um, so, and again, I don't

have kids that age, but you know, there starts to be that level of letting go, right? right? That eventually they're going to be off in college, they're going to be making their own decisions. Like there is that that um that season of life is is coming soon. And so it

always begs the question, it changes a little bit because he's still under your roof in my opinion, but it always begs the question of if no one's asking advice, you know, when do we give it and

what what can we control? Because the truth is you can't control what she chooses to do. Um, and it gets to a

point too that eventually soon they're going to just be making their own decisions regardless of what you guys think or not. Right. So, so if anything, it would be a conversation with him. I I I don't know what y'all's relationship was. Obviously, they've been dating a while, but you're not her parent, right?

So, um, but you are your son's parent.

And so I think having that relationship of being able to have the conversation of, hey, this is what this is what life will look like, you know, if she chooses to go down this path and and then, you know, we get people, you know, in the medical field call us all the time, Jennifer, pharmacists and all this, and they have $200,000 in debt, but they're making $160,000, right? And so usually

the hope is is that you have a bigger shovel if you're choosing to go a path, you know, in this medical type field. It doesn't always happen. you know, they could get married, she gets pregnant and wants to stay home and then all of her options are gone, right? Because she has to go pay the step back. So, so there's a lot of life in there. Um, but as a for

I don't know. I I I I don't know how much you can control it, right? And until they're married, he doesn't really get a vote in her life. He may have influence, but he doesn't have a financial vote as to what she does or doesn't do. The the worrisome part was how flippant she was about it. Well, she's 17. Well, this is normal. I'll just pay off my 300,000 over 20 years. I

think we need to give her a dose of reality. And I think you're right. Like sitting them down and saying, "Hey, would you guys watch this documentary?" But if it's not her daughter, well, if she's over a lot, but if they're not engaged and stuff like I don't know.

Yeah. I mean, I'd probably pop on bar in future because I am that dad, you know, just to have it on in the background. Just to have it on. Yeah. I mean, I guess if it's in like a very organic conversation, you know, but I don't know. It would I don't know. It would feel like overstepping boundary. Do you feel like that if you brought this up, it would be overstepping your boundaries?

Well, I have brought it up to my son and he would he would watch it with him. She

he has brought it up to her and um so we

do plan on doing that this summer. Okay.

And is her family Okay. Jennifer, is he is he about to buy a ring? Like when you say they're serious. Okay. So, honestly, honestly, too, and you know this, Jennifer, at 17, you're 17. I'm like I

knew multiple friends that were dating in high school. They go to college within, you know, nine months or so.

They're they're off on different schools. They meet I mean it you change so much in that season. Also, Rachel got married in college. I wouldn't I had a semester left.

Thank you. Winston graduated a year. A semester left. Thank you, George.

So, it can happen. But what I'm saying though is I do wonder if you're ringing your I I don't want you to worry about something that's not your problem right now. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not like they're getting engaged this summer and getting married and then she's choosing to go in at 18 years old, right?

Like I don't know. We may have different opinions. George, I just think it's one of those things you got to you cross the bridge when you get there. And if she ends up in a bunch of debt and they do end up getting married and she's aligned on the values of wanting to get out aggressively, then they'll be okay.

You can still have a a great marriage, but it is going to add a a wrench in whatever their plans are. Yes, that's right. It just adds that weight. It's going to hold them back building wealth. But the long-term hope is that she gets on the same page with money and goes, "You know what? I'm not waiting 20 years if she does end up taking this debt.

It's I want to be done with this thing in three or four. Yeah. And Jennifer, you do this after school, too. And I know people, majority people change their major, right? Like halfway through. So, I'm like, she may not even end up doing it anyways, right? So, that's what I'm hoping. Yeah. Yeah. And

they may not even be dating. I mean, I don't know. That's a tough one. Yeah.

There's no easy answer. I I don't want you to worry, Jennifer, because I just don't feel like um the reality is happening. It may happen in like four

years, but a lot of factors have to play in for this to actually happen. But I really do appreciate you, you know,

looking out obviously for your son. That's what I'm thinking. It's it's for your son. What she does though is I don't know. Well, keep us posted. Call us back in a few years. Yeah. Okay. So, tell me this. Let's flip the tables a little bit, George. Okay. Let's say Mia comes home. Oh my gosh. We need a different Okay, let's go. First of all, America, Mia is my eight-month-old daughter, just for context. Okay. She

comes home and this is not picking on Jennifer, but it does raise the question, where was she? If she wasn't She was at her boyfriend's house. Okay.

Okay. And her boyfriend's um I was going to use health. I don't want to use money as the example, but health. Okay. And she comes home and she says um yeah, I

mean Brad's mom set me down. She's dating a Brad. She has to date a Brad in this scenario. She's dating a Brad. I already have feelings about she says, "Oh my gosh, Brad's mom." You know what?

You're not the mom. You're the dad. You may feel differently. Brad's mom sat me down and told me like the way you've been feeding us gluten-free, all this stuff is actually really harmful and I actually need gluten and dairy and all of this that you've you've deprived me of, dad. So I I like because of this

Brad's mom like I'm choosing to say.

Would you be like Brad's mom? What the heck? Stop teaching me about I'm trying to put myself in a place where there's a contentious argument about gluten. I'm trying to trying to put it in my world.

I'm trying to put it in your world. Yeah. I mean, I think as an adult, I would have an adult conversation with the other adult and come to a compromise.

Okay. So, you would reach out to Brad's mom and be like, "Hey." Okay. So, that's what I'm saying. Like the blurred line with Jennifer and this girl who's not her daughter. Is it overstepping boundaries? Is it parenting another person's child when the girl isn't asking? You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's not a fiance, it's just a girlfriend. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like future mother-in-laws give unsolicited advice all the time.

That's just a part of being a potential future mother-in-law, you know. I guess so. I don't know. They may never get glad you called it Jennifer. That's a really good It's a It's an interesting scenario to be thinking about for sure.

I would love to hear from from the girlfriend's parents. But I also and I'm thinking about little Charles now, my son. Like if he was Yes. dating a girl and she was going to go I would be like y'all don't do like stop. No. No. Like I

would feel that you know that tension.

Oh, I'd feel the way of like you're about to enter into something really hard that you don't have to enter into right now. Like, you know, cuz the damage hasn't been done yet. So, we're going like we can prevent a lot of this.

Is there another way? That's I don't know. Did the girlfriend parents save for college at all? Did she just on a whim decide I want to be an orthodontist one year before going off to college?

There's a lot of further questioning that we don't have the answer to. 100%.

But yeah, well, if Mia starts eating gluten and she we we have had that discussion in the camel house. You're like, "Will she eat gluten one day?" I don't know. We don't have it in the house. Well, will she get She dates a Brad. It's like alcohol. It's like she's not drinking in our house. I'll tell you that much. Oh, that would have been a better one if you don't if you're a family that doesn't drink in the Oh,

save that one for next time. Yeah, we'll do that next time. Hey, more of your wonderful calls coming up. Always a great conversation.

88825-5225. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at88255225. You call in and we'll help you take the right next step with your money and your life. Mike is in DC up

next. Mike, how are you doing today?

Hey, I'm doing great, thanks. How are you doing? Well, how can we help? All

right. So, um, around, uh, August last

year, um, I finally decided to accept the fact that I found myself about, uh, well, I'll just tell you, $11,660 in credit card debt. Um, so I

decided to put myself on a budget and start paying it off. Good. Um, I've made about I made about $5,486 in payments toward that debt, which just about. Was that exact? Wow.

That was that was Yeah, that was exact.

And then it leaves me with exactly

$6,173 in um in remaining debt to pay.

Is that all of your debt? As I'm Yes.

Okay.

So, and as I'm paying this off, I I want to get more aggressive with it, but you know, I'll be honest. I'm I'm really a little um worried about pulling money um

away from a a recurring retirement and savings contributions to do it. I just wonder sort of what's your perspective on should I uh stop, you know, paying my

401k to get that debt paid down as aggressively as possible or should I just continue on? How old are you, Mike?

I'm 32. Okay. What are you contributing

right now to retirement?

Um, I contribute about $300 a month

towards it. What percentage of your income is that?

Um, so I make uh 81,000 a year. Um, so I

guess I don't know, back at the napkin math, I'd say that's probably like uh 6%.

You're saying 300 bucks a month?

Uh, 300 bucks a pay period. So 600 bucks a month. Oh, okay. Okay.

600 bucks a month. Well, I'll tell you this much, that's not going to give you a great retirement anyways. And so, our plan is to pause contributions to retirement so that when you get back to investing, you're investing 15% consistently without fail for the next decade or two until you get your house paid off and then you can invest even more. And so, that's the the purpose of us telling people to pause the 401k is twofold.

Number one, it actually frees up the 600 bucks a month that can now go toward the credit card.

Right. And number two, it lights a fire under your butt to get out of debt faster because you desperately want to get back to investing, don't you? Yes.

And the problem right now is you're a little bit comfortable. Like, yeah, you want to get out of debt, but you also want to invest. And you know, nothing's on fire. And I like the the fire that is

created when you pause the investing. It tells your own body, this is serious. We need to get out of this debt ASAP because I want to build wealth and stop paying for the past. What is the debt of the interest rate on these credit cards?

Uh well um I actually was able to

consolidate um my debt into a 0% card.

Um so I had um some highinterest debt

that I've already paid off. Um and the debt that remains is um one singles uh

one single amount on a 0% card and that 0% goes until March next year. Okay. So

how quickly can you pay off if you pause investing? You got the extra 600 bucks back. You got six grand left on the credit card. You're making 81. How quickly can you pay this off if you do all of that?

Uh probably 7 to 8 months. Let's call it

6 months.

Okay. How would you like to be debtree in six months? Do you have any money in savings?

Uh, yes, I do. Um, I've got about I've

got three grand in a brokerage, 70 in

retirement, and uh 1,500 in my emergency

fund. Okay. So, you got 4,500 in liquid cash right now.

Yep. Well, you could you could lower

this I mean more than half today if you

wanted to. If you wanted to keep a $1,000 emergency fund and then throw the

brokerage account and $500 that's in your emergency fund at this debt, then

you're down to, you know, 2,600 bucks.

Yeah.

And if you pause investing now, you have an extra 600. This thing's done in like two or three months, dude. It's done like really soon. And then just build your emergency fund back up for a few months and throw some cash in there to get that back up. And then I would by the end of the year, you'll be investing 15%. Yeah, you have almost tripled your

investing. Do you see the excitement that we have as to why this plan works?

Yes, I do. And I think I just needed to hear somebody tell me it was okay because, you know, I'm just very wary of of liquidating that extra cash. But I I totally see what you're saying. Yeah. And Mike, and the and the reality is too, you know, people kind of are like, "Oh, $1,000 emergency fund. These Ramsey people are crazy." But here's the truth.

If a if a larger emergency fund or a larger emergency comes up, usually you don't have to pay for that like today.

Usually you can say, "Okay, I have two to three weeks. I got to come up with some cash with my emergency fund and figure out how to pay this." You know, you'll pause the debt snowball and figure it out. But the problem is is that people try to do kind of what you're doing, Mike. Six different things at once.

Or they try to go and build up this big emergency fund before they get out of debt and they never even get to getting out of debt because they spend so much time with just the savings portion uh to feel comfortable.

when you become debtree. Your what we say your largest wealth building tool, it's your income. It all comes back to you. And and it's an amazing thing when you say, "Okay, all these credit cards are gone.

There's no bank in my life left." And now I get to decide what to do with my income. And you're able that much faster then to build up a emergency fund to three to six months of expenses was which is what we want you to do. We don't want you to stay at $1,000 forever. But for you, Mike, you're only going to stay there for like two months, month and a half, right?

I'm like, it'll be so fast.

Okay. All right. So, uh, I think I I

think I know what I need to do. Booyah.

Another one bites the dust. Rachel, we did it. Mike's on the path. All right.

Let's see if we can help Jordan out in Boise up next. Jordan, what's happening?

Uh, hi. Um, so my wife and I, we've been married about six months and we're just now starting baby step one. We're working towards getting a $1,000 in the savings account. Awesome. Um, and we we

just feel really overwhelmed. So, we had to move to Boisey for my job. Um, and

the housing market is awful here. Um, and we only have about $6,000 in student loans left. Um and

then probably at about another 4,000 because of a medical emergency that happened um with the ER. Okay. So you got 10K in debt. 10K in debt. Right. So

I I separated those because we're not getting interest on the on the hospital.

It's just a payment plan.

Um, and so yeah, just this idea of, you

know, once we get to that point, by the time we get to, you know, 20% down on a

minimum of a $400,000 house, which is

not a like that's the lowest I've ever

seen it in Boisee. I It just seems impossible to buy a house. Well, you're not going to buy a house now, Jordan. You guys are broke. You don't even have $1,000 in savings. Yeah. So, Exactly.

It's going to be a few years. Yeah. So, it's not a 20% down payment. That's a suggested amount. You can go down to five for a first-time home buyer, so 5%.

Um, and by the time you guys do all of this, how much do you guys make a year?

Uh, together we make about 66,000 before

taxes. Okay. So, yeah, by the time you guys pay off $10,000 of debt and get a

fully funded emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses, it's going to be I mean, 18, 24, 3 years, you know, till

that happens. And honestly, Jordan, it's going to be a whole new world. We got an election year. who knows what interest rates are going to do. Like, we don't know what's going to be going on. Um, but we would still stick with that at least 5% down idea. And I just don't

believe that the lowest house you can find is a $400,000 house in Boisey. I don't believe that. Well, you know why? Cuz I live in Nashville and it's the hottest market right now. And my husband, him, I mean, he just went and and you know, we we were doing the investment real estate right now and he got like a great $200,000 house. It's a two-bedroom, one bath. are flipping it in a in a a place outside of Nashville.

So, I just I I just don't believe the $400,000. I get the house. I debunked it, Rachel. I'm literally on realtor.com right now. There's at least 30 houses that are beautiful three-bedroom, single family homes under $400. All right, Jordan, let's do this. You sound a little like us when we get dramatic sometimes. Focus on one thing at a time.

It's never going to happen. It's going to happen. Get your income up and you'll get calm down. You've been married 6 months.

You guys just You guys just be patient. And in three years, it's a whole new world. And hopefully there'll still be these wonderful houses in Boyisey that I'm looking at right now on Georgia's computer. It's not in the Constitution that newlywoods have to own a home.

So, I hope that frees you, Jordan. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay Show. What does the future hold for business?

Economic growth or a recession? Business

taxes will go up or down? AI will help

us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball.

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refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Alexis in Tennessee. We recently received credit cards in the mail for my son and daughter who are both under the age of 12. When I showed them to my husband, he responded that he had taken them out in our children's names to help them establish a credit score before they became adults. We have followed your principles for years. So, I was shocked that he did this without talking to me about it. How should I handle this situation?

This feels like there's a there's a tinge of financial infidelity here.

Behind her back opened up credit cards in the kids names. Yes. And and not and not mention it. And the way that you're when you said, you know, we've followed the principles from year for years.

If I'm assuming that means you guys are on the same page, you're talking about money. I mean, there's some couples that, you know, they don't know what the other one's doing. But if you are following a level of Ramsay and that means you are, you know, connected and you're talking about money. So, the fact that he didn't bring it up, that feels that feels very off to me.

Yeah. And the fact he opened up credit cards in your kids' names. Well, I'm guessing he it's in his name and they got cards with their names on it as authorized users. Yeah. Because if you take out a Yeah. a a line of credit for

a child, right? I mean, you you It's a

trend because of these Tik Tok videos where they go, "Hey parents, here's a life hack for you. Add your kids as authorized users and they can take your credit score when they're 18 and have great credit so they can go get some more debt." Yep. Well, and what we've heard too is people calling the show saying, "Yeah, my parents took out debt in my name to build up a good credit score and then they ended up Yeah.

destroyed the credit because they couldn't handle it." And so you're just like, "Oh, it's Yeah. And and it gets to be a fine line, too, of identity theft." I'm like, if you're, you know what I mean? Like it's kind of to a point of like there was no consent here. I mean, yeah.

So, it's I I don't like it. I don't like playing the game. And so, yeah, but a lot of it is a Tik Tok trend. Yeah.

There's We have an article here related to this. Parents are gaming their kids credit scores. And it's around the same idea of stories of people who had their parents add them as authorized users. There's some horror stories in there.

There's some explanation, but it says many are taking advantage of these tools.

That's perfect. 8% of roughly 1500 American parents surveyed said that at least one of their minor children had a credit card, presumably through authorized usership because kids under 18 can't get their own card. And uh TransUnion data showed that nearly 700,000 22 to 24 year olds had authorized user accounts. Oh, dang.

Yeah. So, and here's the thing. The I don't think these are terrible people. They're just well-meaning parents who have fallen for the system who go, "Well, this is the path. They got to have the credit score because otherwise, how are they gonna rent an apartment and how are they going to travel and they can't book airlines with that?" And I'm going, "Have you ever tried a different route? You don't need to do all this girration to live your financial life.

Yes, there is so much more freedom, you guys, when you're not chasing the credit score. You can live life without a credit score. You can do everything you just said without a credit score. It is possible.

You can even get a house through manual underwriting without a credit score. And so, yeah, I think like you said, it's good intentions them going in saying, I'm going to try to set my kids up, but you're falling right into the system that gets so many people, millions of people stuck and in that wheel of debt. And it's like, it's not worth it. It's not worth playing the game.

And then, let alone having any level of risk for another human being of their financial well-being that if you screw this up, it doesn't just hurt you, it's hurting your kids then at that point.

It's it is absolutely bonkers. And I cover this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on credit scores, a whole chapter on credit cards, and I unpack how to live life outside of the system. And it's not as complicated or as difficult as people would have you believe.

Yes. In fact, it's way more peaceful. It's way more simple. I don't have 16 cards to manage to try to get the rotating cashback rewards.

I have a debit card and I use it and it has my money on it. And when that money's gone, it is gone. You know, it's funny, George.

Everyone's like, "Oh, but that's the smartest way." Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be so many other hoops to jump through. And you can live your life that way financially.

You can, but you're going to be exhausted. You're going to be exhausted again with a system that is set up to screw you. Like, that's what it is. It's not there to free you and for you to be financially free.

They want you in the system because they make so much money off of you. But when you exit out of the system and you're like, "You know what? I'm going to live with a de with a debit card with cash.

What is sophisticated as beasts? It is.

I'm like, there's just that level there that is it is so much worth it than the mental dance and gymnastics that you have to play. So, here's a game. Here's a wild concept. What if as a parent you taught your kids how to manage money instead of managing debt?

That's all a credit score is is how well you've managed debt. Yeah. Doesn't reflect how much money you have in the bank. doesn't reflect your income.

It just reflects your relationship with the lender. And so that's that's how I'm aiming with my kid. I'm going they're not going to they're going to look at people with credit scores and credit cards going, "Why are they doing all that work, Dad?" I'm like, "I don't know. America's it's crazy.

Lost our minds. It's crazy out there." Oh man. Yeah.

take credit cards out and don't be an authorized user. Say you follow our principles for years while you still clearly have credit cards. You don't get to pick and choose. This isn't a buffet.

This isn't a buffet. Get out of here.

Get out of here. All right, let's go to Shane in St. Paul. Hi, Shane. Welcome to

the show.

Thanks, Rachel, for taking my call. How are you today? We are doing great. Glad you called in. How can we help? Thank you. Well, I'm a relatively new listener. Um, we're on uh baby step number two. Um, and my question is, we

have probably about

$17,500 in credit card debt, okay, and a

couple of other small loans. And um, we

have some money set aside. And I was wondering, is there any way that you can

deviate from that snowball plan?

Uh, tell me. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you want to? What's the What's What are the numbers you're seeing, Shang? It usually comes down to numbers.

Okay. Um, basically, uh, the biggest one we have is we have a a credit card with a high interest rate that has a balance of about 10,000. Okay. How much what's

the interest rate on that?

Uh, it's like 18.5% I think. Okay. And then we

have another credit card with a balance of 7500 and that interest rate is is

9.9%. Mhm.

And then we have a um kind of like a

small um home improvement loan with a

balance of like $350 that we have to pay off. And then um I have

a work loan um that I got through my

work with with 0% interest and I have a

balance of like $800 on that. Okay. And

how much do you guys have saved?

Um, well, we just got our taxes back and

and so we have about 14,500.

Amazing. Oh my gosh. So, the math doesn't matter that much cuz you've just knocked out all the debts but the last credit card. Yeah. In this scenario, right? So my I guess my question is um you know would would it make sense to pay off that the highest one the $10,000

first and then pay the two small loans and then whatever is left pay on that last credit card.

Uh, no. I mean, listen, if you're doing the math, I understand what you're saying because of the interest rate. And what we always talk about on this show, Shane, and what you're going to start to realize is that personal finance and winning with money is so much more about

your behavior than it is about math. And so, if we were all, you know, chasing math, we wouldn't be in debt in the first place, right? So, it's not a math problem. It really is us winning.

And so the fact that you do have a a bulk of money which is absolutely amazing. Um what that does to me that just that jump starts I mean tonight you could have that $800 paid off that $350. I mean those are just like ankle biters right?

And then to pay off a $7,500 credit card in full and it be completely done, like

and knock the next debt down to probably around six grand.

Four grand. Have almost six grand to throw at the 10k debt. So you'd be down to about $4,000 left. So the 18% interest, the way you're going to attack this thing, it's not going to amount to much because you're not going to be in debt, Shane, that much longer.

I mean, when you're looking from a math standpoint, you guys could take on extra jobs and get that paid off in two months. You know, you throw a thousand bucks a month at this thing, it's gone in four months. Yeah.

But, I'm excited for you. You said you're a new caller. So, I'm so glad that you're joining in and using that refund for good instead of a vacation cuz you deserved it. Well done, Shane.

Well done. Well, thanks to uh all the men and women in the booth making the show happen. George, thank you. Thanks to our great audience here in Nashville, Tennessee. And thank you, America. This is the Ramsay Show.

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## 53. Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding | February 6, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every [music] Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney [music] and we're answering your calls at8255225.

All right, first up we have Kate in Indianapolis. [music] Hi Kate, welcome to the show. >> Hi John and Rachel.

>> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, so I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have a one-year-old and I have another baby due in July. I've been married four years and my husband uh just sat down

with me in the last two weeks and revealed to me that he took out $350,000

in loans and he lost it all. He was using it to invest in day trading.

>> Oh my god. >> And so it was a real real shock to me.

Um I just would like some direction from

you guys or some answers as to what you

think I should do in all aspects. Should

I get a job? You know, marriage advice, stuff like that.

>> God, Kate, I'm so sorry. When did When

did you find this out?

>> Uh, it was a little over a week ago.

>> How did you find out? Did he Did he come to you and tell you or did you find something? >> He came to me and told me.

>> Oh my god. >> And I did discover that it has been going on our whole marriage. I just found that out last night. So before >> where was he getting these loans from?

>> So my husband is self-employed. He started his own business like two years ago and um he has his business has done

really well and we would have been fine.

Like our business was successful. He does excavation and um I don't know I'm

still not at the bottom of you know the purpose of doing that but um anyway his

business was doing really well and so that's why he was able to get such loans if that makes sense. >> So he used did he take out business loans?

>> Yes. >> He told banks I'm borrowing this money for my business and then he day traded it. So he committed a crime too.

>> I I wasn't aware that was a crime.

>> It's fraud.

Okay. >> If I go to a bank and say, "Hey, I want to open a restaurant." And they go, "Cool." And they give me money for my restaurant and I go, "Day trade it?" Yeah. That's fraud.

>> I'm not sure if it's a business loan. I just know he has three loans and I know the names of the places he has them through.

>> So, you don't know if it's like a personal loan or a small business loan?

>> I know that some of them are per I think they're I'm not sure.

>> Yeah. But you're not taking it out on the business to John's point.

>> Okay. Um gosh, Kate, uh how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um he pays himself as a W2 employee with

his company and he u 60,000 a year is

how he does it.

>> Jeez. Okay.

>> Is he will we will be filing bankruptcy

in March. It's not even optional.

There's no way out. >> Yeah. Have you guys spoken to an attorney?

We have and that was that was the

question I had. Should I get a job? My husband doesn't think it's in my best interest to get a job because he thinks it actually might hurt the situation more to help it >> because you're what? Like showing more income or something >> because we file our taxes jointly and so he thinks that's going to increase our household income. >> Dude, you're so far past that situation.

>> Here's what you have here's what getting a job would do for you right now.

Like the world you knew >> as of like two weeks ago doesn't exist anymore.

>> The integrity of the man you anchored your life to doesn't exist anymore.

>> And like you owning that reality is

really important.

>> I understand that. >> And taking money advice and well it's going to bracket from the person that just did that.

>> That's like that's like your spouse cheating on you and then giving you dating advice.

You know what I mean? I'm like I'm not taking that that kind of advice from you in this moment right now.

>> Well, you guys are much smarter and wiser than I. So, what do you have to I

call it financial infidelity.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, Kate, if I were you, I would be I would be separating everything right now because this part of your marriage no longer has trust, right? And John can talk about what it looks like to rebuild that. But for you and you're

expecting, right, a baby, >> correct? Yes. And I already have a one-year-old. >> Yeah.

Um, probably like what I would probably do today is I would go down to the bank and

get a separate checking account and when he pays himself, I would split it 50/50

and just have your own money in an account for right now. And then you guys need to look at what it looks like going forward because for you to what John's

saying is like creating safety for you Kate is what I'm looking for here in a financial situation. Now you having a baby and being pregnant like that. I mean it does it adds so many complexities cuz do you go and put the kid in daycare and try to get a part-time job? I mean realistically like

you know probably not like daycare is going to cost as much as you know what I mean. I know how expensive that stuff is. So, um, >> so looking at, so what I would do probably right now is I would tell him I need 50% of the paycheck and I'm having my own account because you need to start rebuilding your own side of your of the

finances in marriage. And then unless

you guys can get to a point where you are rebuilding your marriage and the trust of the money comes after all of that, but um you're going to probably be in a holding pattern for a bit. And I wouldn't um I I would want every login information. I would have every account.

I would freeze his credit so he can't go and borrow more. Okay.

>> And free yours. Freeze yours, too. >> Freeze yours. Um your child's too.

people take out loans in their kids' names and commit fraud that way. Um, >> okay. >> And and the thing with what he's done, and I don't obviously we don't know him, but and John, you probably can speak to this way better than I could, but when you find yourself in a hole that deep, you almost become cra like you start to like make decisions that aren't even rational to out of the freak out of trying to get yourself out of this much. >> You go into survival.

You don't you're not thinking anymore. >> Yeah. There's no rational. So So him like >> it's not an excuse.

It's not excuse, but it's a context. >> Yeah. So, like him taking money out on one-year-old.

anything else. And I would Yeah. I I mean, I would make sure you have every login account. Do you guys have um I mean, do you have investments? I mean, all all like when you file bankruptcy, they're going to be taking it so much.

Like do they >> you're talking about like your like what investments as far as >> like 401k Roth IAS. Do you guys have any of those? >> He does. I have one, but it's just in my name. So they're not going to touch it because all the loans are in his name, not mine. >> So I would have I would even get just >> I don't know if that's how that works. >> The login information on all of that.

Like do you know what? I would get as much information as you can to have access to what you need to get to if the time comes. >> And you you just explained it. you learned something two weeks ago and then you found something out last night.

>> I I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times somebody has come forward with a spouse and said, "Hey, I screwed up. I've been cheating.

I screwed up with our money. I haven't been employed for a year." Whatever. And they get the whole story the first time out.

So for you, I would guess that there are I would I would predict that there are going to be waves of you uncovering and finding things out. And so the conversation you begin with your husband starts like this. You husband have

burned our trust to the ground for the

next seven days. Here's a road map that I want you to follow that we can start practicing in teeny tiny tiny little ways to rebuild trust. I want every login. I want our credit reports. I want I want my own checking account. And then 7 days from now, we're going to get you're going to give him another road map very clear that he can follow. And then he gets to decide whether he's going to follow that or not.

[music]

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[music]

[music] Up next we have Marshall in Kansas City.

Hi Marshall.

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help today?

Well, I have about $50,000 in debt. Um,

and about a $92,000 mortgage. And I have

a little bit in savings cuz my wife had some medical issues [clears throat] that we are still waiting on the bills on.

So, I didn't know the best way to handle upcoming bills that we don't know totals on. >> Okay. What's What's the medical issue?

What's going on?

>> She's having some heart issues. So, she's seen the cardiologist and other things like that. >> Okay. How much you guys have saved for that? >> I have $8,000 in savings right now.

>> Okay. And are you guys at the beginning of this or these will be kind of final medical bills once they hit >> It's still going on. She's still seeing the doctors. >> Okay. Um the 50k in debt. What can you

break that down for me? What each >> That is $18,000 on a truck and $32,000

in student loans. >> Okay. How much you guys make a year?

>> Um, right now she's in nursing school. I don't know yearly, but I make $864 a week. >> Okay. So, what do you guys bring home a month? What hits your checking account each month?

>> Almost $4,000. >> $4,000. Okay.

Okay. Um, I mean, honestly, Marshall, just just seeing everything right now, I would sell the truck.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. How how much could you get for it, do you think?

Uh, maybe 30.

>> You could get 30 for it >> probably. >> Oh my gosh. All day. >> It's pretty new. I've been I've been paying a lot extra on it every month.

Paid off in the next six months.

>> You could get it paid off in the next six months >> if I depleted the savings. And I also have 10,000 or in retirement that I was told I could pull out. >> No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. >> Yeah. I would not I wouldn't touch retirement to pay off consumer debt. So, I would leave leave that 10,000 there.

That's not worth the truck at this point. Um, >> okay. Cuz she's also in school right now and will start working come May when she graduates nursing school >> in May. Okay. What will she Does she have any idea what she'll be making?

>> Uh, 40 something an hour.

>> But I mean, that's assuming she doesn't have heart troubles and she doesn't have medical issues, right?

>> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There's just a lot of whatifs down the road. I would I would act on what you have in your hand right now.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, if you could get 30 for it, that's unbelievable. I mean, I would take it and then I mean, I would spend maybe >> five grand, >> five, six grand. Yeah. Four grand, whatever you can, just to get something significantly cheaper, obviously. Um

>> Okay. >> And then, yeah, I mean, and then out of that, you'll have probably 10ish left over, 8 to 10,000. And then throw that at the student loans, you know, and you'll be down to at that point probably

22 to 24,000, which is amazing. Like that's a that's a significant jump going. You just cut you just basically cut everything in half debt wise. Yeah.

>> And then if in 24 months if she's making 40 bucks an hour and you keep working hard, then go get whatever truck you want, man. You can just write write a check for it. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Sounds good. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Yep. Absolutely. Thanks, Marshall. All right. All right, let's go to Joseph in Colia, South Carolina. Hi Joseph, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, um, my wife Tally and I are moving to Columbia, South Carolina in mid-March. We're we're actually in Texas right now. Um, we want to buy a house on the VA loan and we want to do this for two reasons. Um, one, we want to start building equity on real estate. And in Colombia, it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent in terms of monthly mortgage.

Um, here are the caveats. We still are

$40,000 in debt in debt between two cars

and her subsidized student loans. And,

um, we we do have around 16,000 in our

joint brokerage in our high yield savings. Um, but I was wondering if you

guys have any advice moving forward um

for us.

>> Don't do anything you're about to do.

>> Don't buy a home. [laughter] >> You're going to hate our You're going to be mad that you called us. >> I know. Cuz when broke people buy houses, they become broker is what happens.

So yeah, the monthly payment may not be, but when the roof leaks and the water goes out and I mean and then life starts happening as a homeowner, you guys have no money. Or put it this way, you're you want to build equity on one side of the equation and at the exact same time you're paying a fixed interest rate on a depreciating asset on two different cars on the other side of this teeter totter.

>> Right. Okay. >> So you it's like I want to fill this bathtub up really high and I just shot two holes in the back of it.

>> Yeah. Okay. And so it's like getting your whole house, get your whole house in order and then man, if you guys move

focused with focused intensity, you'll be saving up and get a down payment in no time. >> Yeah. And and moving to a new city anyways, Joseph, we always recommend just rent for a year just to get the bearings. I mean, I you know, Columbia, it's such a great it's such a great city, but I even think about Nashville.

Like >> when I moved to Nashville, my wife and I rented for a year. >> Yes. There's so many different parts and neighborhoods and you're just like, "Okay, what you know, what side of the city do we live on? What does commute look like?

What does traffic look like? I mean, there's so many things to consider when you buy a home. I mean, that's such a long-term purchase and to rush into something in the name of building equity, right? Um, it's the it's the wrong approach is what's happening.

You're kind of going from the other end. So, yeah.

>> So, between the two of us, we make about 160 per year.

>> Amazing. >> She makes Yeah, she makes about 75. I make about 90. >> Okay. >> Um give or give or take uh if the year is good. >> Will will you make that same amount in South Carolina?

>> Yeah. I mean I work from home as a civil engineer and she's uh in the Air Force.

>> Amazing. Okay. So here's what I would do. Joseph, honestly, if I were you, Do you guys have kids?

>> No, not yet. >> No. Okay. Um so yeah, I would go to

Columbia. I would rent for a year. I would take my 16,000 and I would throw it at the smallest debt. What do you owe on what do you owe on the cars?

>> So, I owe about 20,000 on my truck and

she owes about 15,000 to a Navy Navy

Federal loan we took out for uh a used uh Atlas. >> Okay. And then what's the student loans?

>> Uh I think it's about 10,000.

>> 10,000 there. Okay. So, yep. So, I would I would throw 10,000 of the student loans tonight. Just get those knocked out completely. Um, and then you'll have

$5,000 cuz I want you to keep $1,000 as an emergency fund. Take her car down to 10,000. Okay? So then you guys have $30,000 and left in debt. And what I would do is

I you guys make 160. I would live on 60

like live on nothing. Like get a crappy one-bedroom apartment, have no lifestyle, and you hundred grand, right?

So, you go I mean, of course, this is before taxes, but the idea is that you pay off all the debt. You'll have $70,000. Part of that will be an emergency fund. And then part of that's an amazing start to a down payment. And then you do that even for not even one more year, six more months, and get at least a 5% down payment. And I would avoid the VA loan. There's so many fees.

Um, it's not a great option. Okay? So, I would just do a traditional mortgage, 15-year fixed rate mortgage, and put at least 5% down on a home. And I think, Joseph, you can do all of this in 18 to 24 months.

Pay off all your debt, get an emergency fund, get a down payment, and I promise you the peace you will have doing that, having no payments, no debt, no risk, a fully funded emergency fund, heading into home ownership, like that is so much more of an enjoyable process than having two car loans, student loans, not a ton of savings that could be wiped out in a second, and you know what I mean? And you're just you're just living on the edge there.

>> Sure. Thanks, guys. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call.

>> Man, we had to tell two people.

I don't know if they're going to do it. Neither of them are going to do it. >> I wouldn't tell them to sell it. They can pay theirs off.

>> Yeah, >> Joseph can. Yeah. >> Um, yeah, because they they'll get hers down to 10 and then they have his $20,000 truck, but they make 160. I mean, they can >> they can. >> You're always about selling stuff. No, I I I I just don't I I think when somebody

set gets their mind set on, I'm going to buy a house no matter what. >> He's going to >> It's so hard to back up and say, "I'm going to do that, but in 2 years." >> Yes. >> And it's so hard on this side of the equation to be like, I I'm telling you that 24 months is so worth it. It's so worth it.

It's so worth it. >> Mhm. And it's almost like someone has to go through it and [music] then their car that they owe a payment on breaks down and they roll that negative equity and they're going to call us back in two years and they're going to be like, "Man, I should have listened." >> I know. Yeah, Joseph, you may not take the advice, but I'd implore you, >> bro.

You're like 18 months away from changing your life forever in a positive direction.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Well, we know [music] that through

work here, surveys, studying

people, all [laughter] the situations.

>> What are you talking about? >> There are so many people though in their marriages that are frustrated. [music] They're overwhelmed. They're lonely and we have the answer for you.

>> We've got it. >> We've got the whole answer. Yeah. Um >> so, and let me say this, for years I pushed back on this. I said, I don't think we could get a we could get something that would help in the way that I think people need help.

>> And the zeros and ones guys here, we all

got we've been working for a couple years now and what they've come up with is unbelievable. >> Is unbelievable. [clears throat] So, we have a new app. John Deloney has

a new app out. Yeah, it's it's called the Together app. Um, and it's in the Apple Store. Android folks, take 30%

off. We're making we're going to make one for you. We're working on it, but it's it's it's cool. But right now, it's in the app store. And it is incredible.

It's uh micro habits for your marriage.

It will text you or not text you but it will walk with you on daily habits and

you [snorts] get it will learn you and you get to decide what what avenue you want to take where you want to focus on whether you got small kids whether you got you're dealing with mental load whether you got a partner who's just completely unplugged like all of it and it is incredible >> it's so good >> and here's my favorite part besides that it's awesome my favorite part is

we walked into this thing knowing that everybody's struggling financially and so instead of saying, "We want to do all of this stuff and it's going to cost $100 million." We started with it cannot

be more than six bucks a month for both of you. And so this app works if you are the only one working on your marriage.

It works with just one player mode, but you can bring your spouse along for for no extra charge. And so it's a cup of coffee a month >> to to literally transform your marriage, not in big firework shows, but in in in daily micro habit change. And the feedback has been astounding. It's been awesome.

>> You guys have had people >> for we've been thousands and thousands of people we've been testing >> and the amount of tweaking and doing I mean all of it. It's amazing. Yeah. And what's so funny is it it is an app so you're on your phone but it gets you off your phone.

thing >> action based >> for your for your spouse for your marriage for you. And it's transformational. It's called the together app. You can search the Together app in the app store and it's a

cup of coffee a month. And um you can

you can bring your spouse with you for the same the same price. >> And let me just say this too, John. Like it it is for couples that are struggling, but it's also for those that are like, "Hey, we just want we need a reminder. How do we how do we just like level up?

How do we just become more intentional?" Right? So even if you're not like >> in this like, "Oh gosh, we're in a terrible place." You get it because what it does is it it reminds you. It keeps things top of mind for you and it actually gives you creative ideas.

And and I'm glad you brought that up.

>> The most common thing I hear from couples is we've become co-managers of our house. Yes. >> Right. We are passing each other in the night with soccer schedules and budgets and both of us are working too much. And this is a tool to help y'all laser in

and refocus on why y'all even liked each other in the first place. >> That's right. >> And um it gets you out of your head and into action and get you off your phone, which is which is my favorite part of it. >> So great. So yep. Go to the Apple Store and download it to get today. It's the Together app. All right, let's go to Travis in San Antonio. Hi Travis, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how you guys doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, oh man, where to begin? Um, see if I

can summarize this quickly. I basically

had an emergency. We were renting from my grandpa. My baby got lead in her blood, so we had to vacate quickly.

>> She's okay. We caught it in time. Thank God. >> But, uh, we're living with the in-laws and have been for about 6 months now.

And, um, you know, I know that throws red flags for people when I talk about it, but it it hasn't been terrible, but now it's getting to the point where we're really just itching for our own space. >> Sure. >> And we're not really sure what next steps to take. Um, I've been working my

way through baby step three trying to get to a $20,000 emergency fund. That's

3 to six months expenses for us roughly.

And that's me being extremely hard on myself. >> Um I was trying to consider, you know,

roughly $1,000 a month um for a

potential payment on something. Um is

that stupid?

>> Is it stupid? I mean, I don't think so.

Depends on I mean, how much margin do you guys have? How much do you make a make a month?

>> Um I I make roughly 3,900 a month and my

wife stays at home. She doesn't work. We have no debts. >> Okay. >> Um and I'm at about $4,000 in the

emergency fund, but we're we're nearing that that threshold of desperation where

we really just want our own space again.

>> Sure. No, I hear you. So, in your area,

>> would you guys be able to find something

for $1,1200?

>> Um maybe. Uh we're we're looking we're

trying to we're looking at rent homes.

Um but my boss has also offered he has

offered me a owner finance situation.

>> No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't do that. >> See, and that was what I thought too >> because then if something happens and you lose your job, you lose your house, you lose. Just don't do that. Don't go down that. Don't cross those streams like like the Ghostbusters, dude.

>> Okay. >> Let your boss just remain your boss.

>> Yeah. Okay. I'm glad you guys

It's a generous offer. I'm sure he's trying to help you out, but don't tangle things up even further that way because untangling that just becomes a nightmare. >> Okay. >> Um, Travis, what do you do for a living?

>> I I work in doors and hardware. I do um,

you know, we do like commercial like for schools and stuff. >> Okay. Okay. >> And do you have kids?

>> I have one daughter. She's Yeah, she's about a year old. >> Okay. So, for you guys, I mean, if you're looking to move out, we always say that your rent should be no more than 25% of your take-home pay or your mortgage. Um, and so for you guys, I mean, that's that's a,000 to 1,200, right? If you kind of go a little bit above that. So, I would want to stay within >> those mean within those parameters, which means you're going to have 3,000 left to live on.

>> Have you guys done a monthly budget? Do you know what your Well, I guess I mean, you obviously don't have rent or utilities and all of that, but I would kind of do a mock budget and just say, "Okay, if we were to move somewhere, what do we [clears throat] think everything's going to cost?" And and list out everything you guys spend money on in the month and see if you can get it within that. I mean, it has to be within the 3,000.

>> Roughly. Yes. Okay. After living with your in-laws for 6 months, how have you only been able to save four grand?

>> Um, well, there were some complications for like my wife had some medical stuff she had to deal with uh postpartum.

>> Um, >> great. I'm glad y'all were able to take care of that stuff. That's good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then there's been like

here and there I've had to buy new work boots and new tools because I just started in this job less than four months ago. >> Okay. >> Oh, wow. Um, >> do you see a raise coming anytime soon, Travis?

>> Um, there's potential for one. Uh, this company's fairly new, so we're growing.

>> Okay. >> And I think I'm just trying to find my groove within within the ranks, so to speak. >> Are you 40 hours with them?

>> Uh, I'm close to 50 hours, but I'm salary. I make roughly about 900 a week.

>> Okay. >> Um, and um, like I said, my wife doesn't

work, but I'm also starting to take on side jobs because I'd really like to start my own business. Yeah, that's great. Honestly, you'll probably make, you know, if that if you get that going, you'll probably make more than what you're doing now, which is awesome. >> Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong here. What I hear with you, brother, is

like, simply put, y'all have a math problem.

>> Okay. >> And you're you you have a value in your home that you want your wife to stay at.

Y'all want her to stay at home. you want

to work with this new company and get them off the ground and you're working 50 hours a week, but you're just I mean you're making about as much as if you went to became become a manager at a Starbucks.

>> Huh. >> And so like you're you're not making 50 grand a year, right? [clears throat] >> Right. No, not quite.

And so, and so you've got these competing values that y'all are trying to stretch out, but the math is y'all can't afford to live out on your own. Which tells me you you and your wife have to go back and say, "Okay, which one of these values that we've laid out if 6 months, for 1 year, for 2 years, we're going to pause on so that we can get ahead for the future." [music] But this is moments when people make desperate situations like >> Yeah. This is where the baby stays with the in-laws and she works for three days a week.

Yeah. Totally. I mean, you find ways to earn this, especially to get you guys to a point that you have your emergency fund, and by that time, hopefully, you've gotten a few raises [music] and time has passed and your income's gone up. >> Some good side hustle jobs.

>> Yes. But in the meantime, uh John's right. You guys have an income problem, [music] Travis.

[music]

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[music]

>> [music] >> So there are certain elements of money [music] that I would say each of us as hosts have a thing that we're just like that is so annoying. [music] Like whatever it is, right? Davees is always people that can't find a job.

He's always like, I don't know how people don't work for 6 months. Like I'd go I'd go like cut yards. Like I' I would do something, right? Like he like we all kind of have our thing. My thing for for some reason, John, more and more and more. It's sports betting. I find it

so annoying.

>> Like I hate it. You find it annoying.

>> It is like it is getting under my skin more and more. The bros that and all the

app now that I know I'm like we're watching football and it's like every commercial >> is an app for sports betting. The amount of money that's going into it and the target audience is a bunch of freaking like 20 30 year old dudes for the most part. Mhm. >> They have a And I'm just like And they're all complaining they can't afford a house.

And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like, "Y'all are so y'all are annoying. It's annoying. I hate I hate it.

>> Yes. They want that. Yes.

>> And I hate it because of the way the the playbook is just it's like an old school after school special. Like the first joint is free, right? [laughter] And it's like your first bets are free. It's like it's such an old school playbook, but it's so predatory.

>> Rope you in. >> Yeah. >> And you keep betting and then they prop bet you. It's like, "Hey, will his shoe fall off in the fourth quarter?" And and you can't stupidest stuff. >> It just latches into every nook and cranny. >> And people get in such trouble with it.

And that's what's so frustrating.

>> That's why I hate it because it's it's like I love I love watching the fights

with somebody and they're like, "Dude, should I put 10 bucks on it?" I love that. That's funny. That's like a thing. >> Yes. That's like old school just like hey we're sitting around I bet on a horse for steeple chase five bucks on >> the when it becomes goes from fun to hey

bet we can make a bunch of money to I bet we could get a whole generation hooked on this >> to the tune of billions and billions of dollars and then we talk to their spouses who have lost everything or we talk to them and they can't >> go to school they can't like get a job like it's so destructive.

>> Yes. >> Now I hate it. H okay so as the Super Bowl is approaching uh an article came out in ESPN that said that approximately 1.76 billion dollar is expected to be bet on the Super Bowl this year. It's the highest. It's a 27% increase year-over-year. So it's getting worse and worse. $1.7 billion in sports

betting for the Super Bowl. I'm like I think we could like cure clean water.

Like I feel like we could use this money and like help a lot of people. You know what I mean? I'm just like, "Oh." Or help your families, help yourselves. I don't know. So much good could be done.

I just I can't I can't do it. Yep. And and uh Bill Miller uh who's the president of AGA said that no single event brings fans together like the Super Bowl. And this record figure shows just how much Americans enjoy sports betting as a part of the experience.

That's like that's like >> sitting outside of a methodone clinic and being like nothing brings people

into a long line. It just shows it's like so not true.

>> Not true. The destruction and all of it and all the I'm like oh my gosh. Please take your money and fund your Roth IRA 27year-old. Please. >> Yes. Take half the money, buy some great nachos. >> It is. >> And then put the other bit of that money. Pay your credit card off this month. Just say, "I'm about to bet on the game. I'm going to pay my credit card. >> I'm going to do something smart with my money." Oh, sports betting. The bros. It

used to be the crypto bros that bothered me. It's now the sports betting bros.

[laughter] >> I can't do it. >> The next segment we'll talk about is >> the women that drive me crazy.

>> We can't. We for sure won't.

>> It's all the [laughter] Yes, >> for sure we won't.

>> All the essential oils. You know what I That's always [laughter] >> Everyone has their thing, but the sports betting man. Oh my gosh. Well, bet the Super Bowl. Yep. Coming up. Uh, yeah.

We're gonna You're gonna see it. Don't bet. Don't bet on it if you haven't already. Save your money.

>> Save your money. >> Save your money. >> All right, let's go to Cincinnati. We have Amber on the line. Hi, Amber.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. How are you guys doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. I just had a question.

And I know you guys always talk about um you know like whole life insurance policies and how they're not great and >> some life insurance some life insurance policies. >> Okay. Life is awesome.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So we have we have a term life policy. Um and both of us have you know

policies obviously through our employers too and you know we've done a good job with a term life making sure we have kids and making sure that they're taken care of. You know god forbid something would happen. But the question I have is

my husband was I guess you could say gifted. Um a family member when he was a

little kid bought him a whole life insurance policy. >> Y >> and he still has it. Um I think I think

the value of it is like4 or $50,000 or

something like that if something would happen. And he's never paid anything for

it. Now what's happening is the annual premium which looks like it's about $88 or something like that. it just comes out of the interest that's earned. So, he's just kind of kept it. Um, I go the

route of, well, do we cash it out and then, you know, invest it, you know, or I mean, heck, even, you know, in our high yield savings account, the money's there, you know what I mean? Um, I I guess we're having that constant debate on what is the right thing to do with this. And I think he's going on the cautious side, but I'm like, we have term life. We have life insurance through our, you know, >> we don't you're covered.

How long is your term life for? What's um what's the policy for? >> Um it goes all the way up until um we both retire. But at that point, we will be in a good situation that I mean, our kids will be graduated from college.

You know what I mean?

>> Cash it out today. You were right.

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Your hunch was right. You can tell your husband that we said you were right.

>> Okay. >> I feel good. Amber, >> I would cash out for the end of the day.

>> Yeah. And you'll just forfeit the death benefit and all of that, but you'll and you'll pay some taxes and all of it, but what you get out of it though, it literally if you just put that in the market, and we don't know what the market's going to do this year, >> but I mean, in the past few years, some some years, it's been like 20%. Like, it's crazy what the returns have been in there. and and like you said, or even sitting in a high yield savings account earning three and a half%.

Like anything is better than this because what they sit there and do is try to mix your investments and insurance and they try to bundle it all together. And it actually is even though y'all aren't necessarily paying for it, I hear that you're paying out of the interest, but it's expensive. It's a horrible investment. You could be making so much more out in the market.

And so I would I would take this I would take this 40 grand for sure, drop it into like an index fund or go to Vanguard or you know put it in a >> but I like you put in high yield savings account like the way you were thinking about it is the way I would think about it. >> Um like >> I was just thinking that extra cushion maybe we have a cushion but even more cushion. >> Yes. And then it would be something you could actually use.

They dangle that death benefit out in front of you >> and then they take your money and they invest that in the market.

>> And [snorts] then they make the spread.

>> I think his thing is always just, God forbid something would happen to him, he wants to make sure that the boys are taken care of. You know what I mean? >> Term life insurance, right? >> Is that $50,000 going to change your life?

If he passed away today, would that $50,000 be what makes or breaks you?

>> No. I mean, the term is going to pay for the house, you know, pay for everything.

I mean, we're we've got plenty. We don't owe anything besides just a little bit left on our house. >> Okay. How How old are you guys? How old are you, Amber? >> Um, I'm 47. >> 47. Okay. I'm just like just doing a quick calculation. If you just put it in right now, just in the market, and you just didn't touch it until you were 67, it'd be $435,000.

[laughter] >> And that's that that's not adding anything. That's just put move like what John said. If you just moved it from one account to the other today and then just left it, you got almost half a million in there. So, >> well, and typically I guess this is the debate we keep going on.

He goes, "Well, it is making money." You know what I mean? Like, and I'm like, "Well, like, but >> not a lot." He's had it since he's a child. >> Yeah. For the steward.

>> He's had it. He's had it since he's a child.

>> It is making money. It's making money for them.

>> Yeah. >> Not for y'all. >> Cuz how old is he? Very true. >> How old is he? He He's uh 52.

>> Okay. And when did they open this? When he was like 2 years old.

>> I I have no clue. I >> But seriously, think about that. Wait, let's just say let's say he did. Let's say they did because a lot of family members will do this. They a grandparent or someone will a child is >> born more like later in life. You know what I mean? Like maybe a teenager or something like that. >> Let's just say let's just say uh yeah 12 years old. 40 years. It's $40,000.

>> It's terrible. It it's shameful that someone would call that an investment product and look at you and say we're you're going to be winning here >> in 20 years. You'd have almost half a million, [music] right? It is it is a ripoff. Whole life insurance, you guys, it's terrible. It is terrible. So, get term what you guys have, Amber. You [music] It's inexpensive.

You get it, you set it 15, 20 years, whatever you need, and then whatever you would have paid for whole [music] life, just invest the difference there, and you're going to come out spades ahead.

So, yeah, Amber, you are right. I'm happy to say it. So there you go.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay [music] Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr.

John Deloney. So give us a call at88255225. [music]

Up next we have Cameron in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Cameron, welcome to the show.

>> Hi Rachel, how are you?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

So, I um I am $74,000 in debt and um I

have two jobs and I used to beund I used to be $131,000 in debt two years ago and now I'm 74. >> Look at you, girl. That's like 60 grand.

>> I know. I know. It's been really hard.

Um I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a year ago. >> Oh my gosh. >> Um and it's been kind of getting worse

over the last couple of months. And um

I'm trying to figure out should I keep working? I've been working my butt off paying on about 20 $2,2500

every month towards the debt. And I'm

struggling to work. Like I'm having issues just every day. And I love what I

do. Like I love both my jobs. My bosses are amazing. Yeah. >> And I just want to sh Everyone's been telling me you should work less. You should work less. And I just I don't know what to do honestly.

>> Yeah. What do you do for uh what are your two jobs? Um, so my first job I'm a

claims associate and then my second job I'm a retention specialist for a a middle sites insurance agency.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Which job pays the most?

>> Um, my 9 to5 my claims ro.

>> Your claims. Okay. And then you're And then how much overtime are you working with the other job?

>> I'm not I don't get overtime. I only get salary. Okay. >> And then I get 21 an hour at my second

job. >> You're doing the other one? Okay. Okay. And how how many hours do you work that extra job? >> Um, [clears throat] so I work an additional I so I work from anywhere between 16 to 22 hours every week

>> with them on top of the 40. So you're working 60 hours.

>> Mhm. Cameron, this is going to sound bananas. Can I tell you >> I'm proud of you.

Not not for working yourself to where you have like like a like [snorts] a chronic illness. Not that. But like you've been working really hard doing whatever it takes and I want to applaud you.

>> Thank you. >> That's pretty impress. It's really really impressive.

>> Are you single? >> It's been so hard. >> I know. I am engaged.

>> Okay. >> Um and I've been working so hard. He's I

also have been battling bipolar disorder and I've been doing all the work going to therapy psychi doing talking to my psychiatrist doing all the medications and that's been extremely commotive as well and the hardest part is that sometimes the Crohn's medicine messes with the bipolar medicine and I've been

it's just been really hard and everyone keeps telling me work less work less but I'm like I want to be debtree and like you should live you should live and I'm just like I want I just don't want to have any of this debt and >> well there's a middle ground There there's a middle ground. When people say you should just live like often people

have in their mind like beach vacation and just eat whatever that means. Yes.

Yes. >> For you just live means

like I want the world to hear your story and I especially want this guy who's won

the lottery getting to marry you and your community who gets to interact with you. Um, you're you're close to like pushing your body over a threshold where it says I quit.

And so I want you just to live. Like I mean that for real. Do you get what I'm saying? >> Not yolo, but I want you to be healthy and okay.

>> This is really hard. >> I know. I would much rather you

take six months and just work one of the jobs. Even if you have to take a medical leave or whatever, take six months and exhale

so that you can come back stronger. Um, I've I've met with guys who train Olympic athletes and they say the hardest part about training an Olympic athlete is getting them to rest,

getting them let their bodies recover.

and your body is is is systematically saying, "Hey, we can't. This is this is a heavy heavy load." And so, I want to applaud you for going all in. And I also want to hear you I want you to hear me and Rachel say how proud of you we are.

And we want you to listen to your body so that you can cross the finish line, not in a casket to be to be frank, but cross the finish line with your arms held high. Right. It's just so hard because I just don't I just I know I'm I just I want to take responsibility and get it done. And I just I used to blame

like I before I used to just blame everyone else about all my problems. And when I finally figured out that I was the you know the problem, I started to I just wanted to start working on it. And so every day you are doing my work.

>> You are. And it just feels >> but take but taking some time to make sure your body's healthy that that that is continuing you that's you continuing to take ownership of you.

>> Yeah. And Kim I do want to give you that permission that you know people that call in and there's they have a you know even a child who's sick and their attention has to be on that or themselves like there are moments to pause baby step two to take care of

yourself or someone around you. Okay. So

that [clears throat] that is what we tell people. Okay. Getting out of debt is very important, but it's not literal life and death. We make it sound like that on the show a lot because [laughter] we want to be so extreme for people to get it, but it's really you don't even need taking care of Cameron is really important.

And I'm not worried about you being lazy or not doing anything, right? It's not you're not calling us up being like, I work 15 hours a week and it's just too much. And we're like, >> no, you want to work one 50our a week job. Good grief.

Yes. >> Right. That's awesome. >> I mean, like, >> you're doing great.

And if you need to just and I know it's frustrating because you're you're you have momentum and what's hard too Cameron I can hear it is like mentally you are so strong.

like I see this and this is what I want.

My mind wants to go here but my body's not letting me. And it's usually the opposite for people. Their bo their body able to do whatever able-bodied but they

don't have the mindset. But you you got it girl. [clears throat] So so so taking care of your body is not

going to ruin this whole thing. It's not.

It's just I'm I'm so I'm I'm so scared too just losing that extra income too.

Like just I haven't I've been doing it for so long and pay so it's just I'm scared too cuz my bills feel like they're so high even like I just like it's so much and I just when I look at

like my budget and I like okay so I I will only have like a thousand left if I just had my main job and I wouldn't be able to put and that's all I would have after bills. Sure. >> Like I want to >> What's left, Cameron, of the of the 74,000? What kind of debt is it?

>> So, I have um five So, I have about $5,000 of credit cards left.

>> Um two personal loans. They're about one

is 2,600.

The other is 6,000.

>> Okay. >> Um well, it's at 4,800, excuse me. I've been paying double the payment for it.

Um then I have a car. So, I have a Tesla

Model Y. I pay um so that's 25,000.

>> Okay. >> And then, um I have two repos that are

on my credit >> that I've been wanting to get settled there. One is 19,000, the other is um

the other is 13 and then um that's it.

Right. And that's all I have right now.

>> Okay. Are you >> I'm sorry. I IRS debt of 5,000.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. We may move that up to the front just to get that out of the way. Um, have you are you you said you're paying extra on that personal loan of the 6,000. Are you paying extra on everything?

>> Everything. So, I'm putting so for my my loan for the IRS is 131, but I paid uh

300 everything. >> Okay. So, what I want you to do, Cameron, I want you to list back out all of your debts. And I want you to just do if you just did the minimum payment on everything [music] and you put everything towards the IRS debt.

I want that momentum to be building because you're kind of spreading everything out, which is amazing. And you've done a fantastic job. [music] I just want more intensity, focus on each one. And so, pay minimum payments on everything and pay the smallest one [music] off first.

And you got this, Cameron.

Call us back if you need any more help because we are cheering you on.

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All right, let's go [music] to Philadelphia and we have Janelle on the line. Hi Janelle.

>> Hi Rachel. Oh, hi John. How are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, so I am currently going through a divorce. Um, and my question is, what

would be the best way to buy my ex um,

manchild spouse out of my home?

[laughter] >> Shots fired. >> Joseph burn. Oh my gosh.

>> You talk about sports betting. Oh, is that is he one of those >> typical sports betting, marijuana, video

games? >> Stop it. How long have you been married? What a manchild. >> We were married for six years. When I um

met him, he was working full-time. Um I

started going to nursing school and I kind of continued. I went for my bachelor's and then along the course of I think our third kid um like when our

third kid started like came I figured it

would be easier for me to pick up an extra shift or two as um a nurse than have him work.

So, I regretted I'm regretting having

him become a stay-at-home dad because that was like the end of it. And every time I asked him to start working again afterwards, >> there was an excuse. And now we're um at

this point and he um kind of hit the jackpot. >> Let me free you from this. You didn't cause that in him.

>> Okay.

>> Don't hold that. That's a man. That's a

father of three kids choosing to not get up and co-sup support his family.

>> Yeah. Um I was actually well he's

not that you need to know this but he actually um adopted my oldest son and um

so I no in the beginning everything seems good and I was getting out of a very um abusive relationship who I had a child with and it just kind of ended up >> you know >> well we'll walk you through what to do with your money but I want I want to set you free from that today.

>> Thank you. Do I really I needed to hear that? >> Every husband, every father

needs to go get a job.

>> Yeah. >> I I I kept saying I was married to um three people, my him and my in-laws,

because anytime there was an argument, his mom would say, "What's going on?" She would come to the house. It was just like it was the worst. And you you're not married to a manchild. It's like an actual child. >> I can't even make it up. Yeah. And Yeah.

and they're paying for his lawyer and we're going to be going through custody battles and he thinks he needs 50/50 custody, but he doesn't really support them. He works as a part-time janitor.

As of the week he filed for divorce, he finally went back and got a job for 4 hours a day.

>> Well, all the text messages you've sent him over the years saying, "Please get a job." All that will come out in discovery. So, >> yeah, I hope so. >> Just work out on that process here.

Let's get let's get you to the house. Tell us your house situation. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, I have to buy him out because I was kind of guilted into putting his name on the house that I paid for. He

did not put a dollar towards but >> Yeah. Yeah. Which >> marital debt. >> Yeah. Totally. Well, and and I'll give you that freedom, too, that we would tell people when they're when you're married, right? Even if one spouse stays home, you both, >> right? If so, that was not that was not wrong of you. Okay. I I hear the frustration cuz you put >> It is frustrating. Yeah.

>> But that was not necessarily a wrong move. Yes. Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. But but to your point, he has that he has 50% of that asset, too.

>> Yeah. So, I we we just went to um the

this divorce hearing and I end I owe him about 48,800 and some dollars. >> Okay. >> Um the house is worth $255 out of as of

the last appraisal and um I owe 139 on

it or 138.

>> Okay. Um, so I have, so since this whole

thing started, I've been like stacking up. I've been I was hustling to like pay off a one of our personal loans cuz I knew that was going to come up and that would look good for me when this happened. So I paid off a $16,000 um personal loan we had as marital debt.

Um, I paid my lawyer over $10,000 and

set aside about $18,000. So, I have cash

and I don't know if it's better. Oh, also I have to pay him alimony. So, I have 15 and a half months of alimony, which is probably going to be about $1,000 a month once when he moves out, >> which he hasn't yet. >> So, should I save this cash as like

just those are my alimony payments or so

I don't have to worry about that when the time comes? >> No. How much are you How much are you making a month?

>> $6,000 plus. So, I'm a nurse practitioner. Um, I make I bring home 6,000 a month. And I do have a side Dave

would call it a um hobby where I do um like medical uh aesthetics, Botox, and fillers. And I that can bring bring home

depending on how much I do it like$1 to $6,000 a month. And I'm just doing it really part-time because I have a kid. >> Oh, good. Could you would you say like 2,000 would probably be average just for calculation purposes? >> Yeah. Yeah, it has been since I've started doing it about two years ago.

Good for you. Yeah, there's some cash in that. That's great. Good for you, Janelle. Okay, so um how much will the mortgage be that you're um if you keep the house? >> How much will the mortgage be without the without his 48,000? But just in general, how much is the payment?

>> Well, it depends. I mean, right now it's 136. >> Okay. >> Four a month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then if you add >> Well, I don't Should I Go ahead. Well, I was going to say if you add in his that 48,000 if you buy him out and just tack that onto your mortgage, as long as that payment doesn't get up to 2,000, which I don't think it I don't think it will.

out what that mortgage payment would be, because I don't want your mortgage payment to be more than 25% of your take-home pay, cuz at that point, Janelle, you probably can't afford the house. But honestly, yeah, I think I I think you might be okay. And especially if you kind of commit for a period of time >> to um doing the side hustle stuff that you can um because if that can bring in six grand a month extra, I'm like, "Holy crap." >> That was probably my best month. And it's um >> Well, even five grand, four grand.

I mean, do you know what I mean? The two grand that I just calculated as like a rough that that's more on the conservative side.

>> I have about 18,000 just set aside. Um,

but that's the thing. Should I Is it better to refinance the house or take out a heliloc? I know you're not going to say hilock personal loan for that or >> normally we would say we would say don't borrow to buy your partner out, but the

like when it comes to home ownership, 48 grand is is a small number.

>> Yeah. And and if that payment is still low enough, I would be comfortable with that cuz majority because >> I'll be honest, Janelle, I'd say 90% of the calls we get in the situation and the wife, the mom wants to keep the home, she can't afford it, you know, and so I most of the time we tell them that they have to end up selling it. But honestly, with the numbers you're giving me, I might but I want you to recalculate it. If you just go to um ramsolutions.com, we have a mortgage calculator.

You can kind of plug some of this stuff in. Um, but I get it. I don't want your payment more than 25% of your take-home pay because you're gonna have that. Then you're gonna have alimony for 15 months and some stuff is going to start stacking up and I don't want this house.

>> You're going to have to pay for child care, too, cuz >> Yes. So, I don't want this um Yeah. I don't want this house to be a burden, right? Like, it's not worth it.

It's worth having all the chaos you guys are going through to have peace and I don't want financial stress on you. Okay. One of the hardest things we have to tell folks in your situation on a regular basis is >> I want you to put on the table as hard as this would be, >> what if I sold this house, >> right?

doing that, but I just >> if you plan on doing that, I would really think twice about doing it now.

And because because listen, what you're trying to do for you and the kids is to minimize the how different your life is now.

>> And I would go ahead and just metabolize. It's 100% different. The life you had is over.

>> Okay. >> And if you think from that, it sounds stark, right? But if you sit, if you think, okay, the life I had is over.

What do I want this new one to look like? Would I go buy this house with these memories and share that bed

>> at this price? Probably not.

>> Okay. >> Or would you go rent for a year? It's going to be inconvenient. You're going to have to call somebody to help you move. It's going to be a huge pain in the butt. But I'm going to start.

>> And then the rent rent is going to be $2,400 minimum.

>> Yeah. It'll be expensive. There's no question. Yeah, there's no question.

>> That's where I I thought about that, too. >> Yeah. So, I think it's kind of making that call, Janelle, for you from that from that [music] perspective, from a mental perspective. Do you want to be walking back in those that front door every day, right? Like, is that how is that for you? and then do this calculation. So, those are the two big questions that that I want you to kind of discover on your own. And you can, but you're smart. And [music] gosh, I'm I'm so sorry of what you're going through.

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It is free. You can download it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to New Orleans and we have Brandy on the line. And hi Brandy.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, I'm Colleen. I am an avid listener.

My husband and I are on board. We are paying off debt and we are super gazelle intense. >> Good for you guys. >> Excited. >> Good. >> I have a $96,000

tax debt left over from my late husband.

>> Oo. >> And Yeah. Yes. Yes.

And I went to a company in around June and

started a fresh start program.

>> What is that? Like >> a tax debt relief.

>> Exactly. Exactly. The name of the company is better tax relief.

>> Oh, there we go. [laughter] >> Right. How ironic. So, >> have you made Have you given them a bunch of money and you've made zero progress? >> I have. No, I haven't made zero progress yet. I've given them half of the money

that I needed. It was they were they were quoted me $15,000

and it was going to they were going to get me into a hardship program and it was called the Fresh Start program.

>> How much money do you make a year, Brandy?

>> I make about 65 and I just recently got

married in December. Okay. together. We have not combined our checking accounts because of this IRS debt.

>> Okay. How much does he make a year? >> I don't want them about 75.

>> Okay. You don't want them to see his income is what you're thinking.

>> Exactly. I don't want them to get a hold of his checking account. My name is not on his checking account for that reason.

We share our money. We pay the bills together. >> Sure. >> You know, but my name is not on his account because I don't want the IRS to go after his account. Can you get your money back from this these folks?

>> That I don't know. Okay.

>> How can we help you, Brandy? What do you What do you need from us?

>> Okay. So, I I I contacted one one of your people. Um y'all used to call them ELPs. I don't know what to call >> one of our Yeah. tax trusted pros. Yep.

Mhm. >> Right. Okay. So, I contacted one in Alabama. He was the nearest one. And he

was a he's just a CPA. And he's like he says, "I've heard of this place. They have good reviews on Google. They have a

lot of good reviews. My second question, my second part of my question was I he recommended another tax attorney that is

local to me in I live in Mississippi, just outside of New Orleans, about 20 minutes outside of New Orleans.

>> So, he recommended a tax professional, a

tax attorney. When I contacted them, they quoted me $5,600 to take care of

the situation, to handle it from start to finish. >> Wow. >> Okay. So, I went back to Better Tax

Relief and they knocked my fee down

and said for the balance of about

$5,000, they would finish the case and

that they do have tax attorneys on staff. >> Yeah. But you're you're you're still just talking about fees. Have they talked about what settlement they've negotiated on this $96,000?

>> They have not yet because >> I I I have all of my trust. I don't know this company. Never even heard of them. I have all of my trust >> in a tax attorney.

>> I would look at incentives. >> When you hire an attorney, that attorney works for you.

>> Okay? >> You are working for this other group right now, >> right? >> They're like the middle. You're basically paying the middleman, >> right? Yeah. >> And see, my husband's been saying, "I've had a bad feeling about this since the beginning because I was I was pressured and I was like, "Oh my god, they're going to come after me and make $6,000.

It's a lot of money." >> Right. Right. You were scared. You made a decision out of fear, right? Urgency.

And Yep. I I I don't know the process, but just personally sitting here just as a dumb guy off the street, I'm stunned that after more than what seven months of working with a company, you don't have a relief number yet. You don't have a negotiated settlement yet.

>> I don't I don't have any. >> That blows my mind.

>> Yes. >> And how much? You said you've given them half of the 15.

>> Half of the 15. So, and then they said they can do it for five, meaning the additional five, or they're going to pay you $2,000 back so that you have >> No, I would still have to pay another five to whichever one I choose to go with if I choose to stay with better tax. >> Okay. Because your original seven grand that you've paid them is just done.

>> I don't know. I I can see if I can recoup any of that. I That's Yeah, >> I don't know about that. >> Okay. But I'm looking at $5,000 more to

get an answer.

But I think that and and healing, you two just now just sold me. I'm going to go with the attorney's office.

>> But I I would call this company and I want a full accounting of what you have done for me for my $7500 I've given you

over the last seven months.

>> I want every phone call logged. I want every message. I want every negotiated settlement you've offered. I want to know what you've done for the last seven months. And if you can't provide that, I want my money back. Because I think what they're doing is just [clears throat] trashing your credit.

>> My credit's trashed.

>> I think about that.

>> Yeah. And they're and then you don't have what I would see as you don't have to do any moral slipperiness with, well, let's don't do his money and let's get somebody who can get in with the IRS, get a negotiated settlement, >> get a dollar amount, >> and you'll probably get it put on a payment plan. >> You can put on a payment plan, get it paid off ASAP. really hoping for innocent spouse, but this company hasn't said that. And the attorney's office is like, "We could go for innocent spouse.

I don't see why you wouldn't get it." >> Right. See this? Okay. And Brandy, I mean, honestly, it's like working with an attorney. If you think about it, they've gone to school for this. This is what they do day in and day out. They work for you. This this relief company is like a who knows who opened it up.

>> They make so much money. It it reminds me not of a payday loan by any means, but it's all in that same bucket. These debt relief companies, they're a cash grab. They grab people in desperation in desperate moments.

I mean, honestly, I hate s I mean, exactly you. I'm like, yes. You're freaking out. You're like, my wages are going to be garnished.

The IRS is after me. Help me. And then >> help debt relief companies right [laughter] there with their sign.

They kept your money. >> And you know what? Yeah. Oh my god.

That's right. So, I think it's just stupid tax that you just knock it up to if they don't pay you back the 7,000.

>> A great attorney is worth every single penny you pay because they they >> it's like they take up a sword and a shield on your behalf and they say game on and that's what that's that's what you hire them for. >> Yeah. And even the term they just threw out to you, right? Like >> the innocent spouse. Yeah. There you go.

>> I can't believe it. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm trying not to get angry on the phone for innocent spouse. I applied for innocent spouse, but then the IRS shut down. the government shut down and never hurt anything, >> right? But then having an attorney on your side, right, that >> right >> goes forward and tries again and [clears throat] all of it is worth every penny. >> Thank y'all. Just thank y'all so much.

We are doing so good and y'all just >> so proud of you, Brandy. How much have you guys I know this is the big debt you're looking at. How much have you guys paid off? [snorts] >> We had 140,000 and we're down to 72,000

since um January of last year.

>> Oh my gosh. So, we paid off about 70,000 in a year. >> We claim to be debtree except for the house by the end of this year with the exception of the IRS. We'll have that settled hopefully.

>> Okay. But settlement doesn't mean it goes away. Settlement means they're going to come up with a number. Right.

>> Right. Right. Well, I thought that the 15,000 was my settlement and that was going to be paid off this year, too. I'm learning now that that was just their fee.

>> Wow. >> Mhm. Yeah. They swindled dreams. Yep.

>> So that's a $7,000 deep tax.

>> That is like having sat back.

>> Having sat with widows

like [music] that makes me so enraged on your behalf.

>> That someone would take somebody in that moment of pain. They just lost their ride or die. And then to find out there was 100 grand they didn't know about.

And then to come in and be like, "Oh, we got you. Give me $15,000.

I'll call you back in >> 7 months, 8 months." That's so enraging to me.

Golly.

[music]

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>> All right, today's question comes from Caitlyn in New York. Caitlyn writes, "My

fiance and I recently moved into a house together. I am not on the mortgage, but I live here, and he pays the bills. His dad helped him buy the house, and my fiance pays his dad instead of a

mortgage lender. On top of that, my fiance uses a credit card that's also paid for by his dad." Oh jeez. His dad is a big fan of yours

and a very smart businessman.

>> Sounds like a raving fan. [laughter] loves us, but this is one thing he does opposite of what you advise. Um, when I bring up getting rid of the credit card or buying a house the right way, he gets defensive and upset. I don't know who if that's your father and law soon to be or your your fiance. What should be my first step to fix this problem?

Um, I Rachel, I think this is as simple as you telling your fiance that

if we're going to get married, it's going to be our marriage, not I'm not marrying your dad, too. Right? Like, we

have to put some boundaries in place right now. You're getting a very clear picture of what your future may look like if you go through with this, which is marrying a little boy in a grown-up

man's body who dad still pays his bills.

His dad still tells him what to do. His dad still the shadow of his father leans over your house.

>> And if this is my sister, if this is my daughter, if this is my friend, I would say I I would draw some real firm boundaries. >> Yes. Yeah. Because if you can't handle it during engagement, he's definitely not going to handle it well. >> Yeah. Wait till you have wait till you have a kid. >> Yes. So, >> yeah. Wait till you get a job in another state and daddy says you can't move.

>> And even if it was a debit card and his dad's paying, you know, funding his checking account also. So, like that's the issue, the dad. And then also the fact that debt is being inner, you know, woven through this entire picture. And if you're not okay with that, you guys have two separate values when it comes to money, which is a really big deal.

I always I I feel like a shallow person when I'm always like, "Oh my gosh, money can ruin the relationship." Because it feels like, "No, that shouldn't love should conquer all." But the truth is, when like rubber meets the road and you guys day in and day out are dealing with your life, this is one of the biggest the biggest issues in marriage that can cause so much conflict if you're not on the same page. So, can it be done? It can, but it's just an exhausting uphill battle that sometimes it's like it you just fight and fight and fight all day long about it.

>> And and in this situation, what churns my stomach is if you go to a a mortgage lender to get a a loan for a home, there

is regulatory bodies that monitor that.

There's agreements, there's contracts.

>> Yes, >> those things guide your relationship.

>> Yes. >> In this situation, your future father-in-law owns y'all. Mhm.

>> He tells y'all what you're going to do, when you're going to do because he is your bank, he is your lender, and I'm not having that because there's no regulations to that relationship other than what he feels that day.

>> Yeah. Mixing family money. No.

>> And also, can I I'll just say this on behalf of the dad in this situation. I have a 15-year-old. You know what? I'm going to tell the story. Uh Josephine and I, my daughter, she's 10. We went on on a date the other day. >> Yeah. >> And after we got done eating, she said, "Dad, there's this cool dress shop." She didn't know this. It's the dress shop.

It's anthropology. Back in the old school, back OG anthropology, like I used to get my wife gift cards when we had nothing. I would save up and save up and save up and that would be like a Christmas present for her cuz I think their clothes are rad, right?

>> Um or they were back in the day. I don't I don't pay attention. And we went in there and there was a dress that was obnoxiously expensive and she she lit up

and she goes, "Can I try this on?" And I was like, "You can try that on." And I was 100% going to buy it. it. [laughter] I mean, I was like, I'm buying that for sure. I'm totally buying that. Like, there's no reason financially she can't wear it. She has a uniform at her school. I'm buying my daughter that dress. And of course, it was like 17 sizes too big. >> I was going to say little joke. Yeah.

>> I get the sentiment as a parent of

wanting to make sure I'm clearing the deck. I'm clearing the path for my kids as much as possible. I don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to have the same heartache I had. I I never we

my my dad wouldn't have had the money because he was a policeman. Like he wouldn't have the money to buy me something even if he wanted to. And I get the impulse to want to do that. We as parents have to understand that that impulse >> when taken too far hurts our kids. It's

walking into the weight room taking all the weight off the bar and then wondering why they're not getting stronger. >> Yes. Or >> Well, that's what I was going to ask you. >> Let me do the lifts for you. >> Because I read all this and and sometimes I blame the parent as much in the situation as the son.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So to to this dad, you know, I mean, how how hard is it or how often do you see married couples and it's it is like an entanglement of the son or daughter continues to listen to the parents over the spouse? Is that pretty common?

>> Super super common. And not usually to this degree where they're your lender and they're financing your life, but even on things as strange as like someone's been married 20 years and we have to go to Thanksgiving and do it this way because my mom said that, right? And so in a weird way, your mother-in-law is still running your life, right? So that happens all over the place.

Um we have probably have mutual friends that like still have been married, they have three kids, and they still hide the wine when you know when mom comes over. You can't. And so there comes a point when you have to say, I'm an adult.

>> Then I have to it it is dad holds the blame here. But now that this guy said, "I want you to marry me." He has to stand up, take responsibility, and look at his father and say, >> "Thank you for bringing me here. I have to develop the skills and muscle and grit and resilience and responsibility to take it from here." >> Y >> and if his dad throws a temper tantrum, then he's going to have a hard grown-up decision to make. Um, but that's that's the that's the call of a of a new husband.

>> Yeah. And weirdly, if I'm her and he does that and even if the dad throws the tent tent, wait, >> temper tantrum. >> Temper tantrum. Why can't I say that word?

>> There there's something about if the if the fiance continues to push through though and continues to choose her, that shows >> even bigger of who he is, right?

Yes. >> And it all. But um >> when you ask somebody, will you marry me? They go to number one on your list.

Yep. >> Above your parents, above above everything, that person anchoring into that person becomes priority. >> Yep. Okay, we got about two minutes. John, what would you say from a relational standpoint? We're talking about like parent child relationship sort of. I mean, adult child, but child, but when it comes to marriage, when we're talking about them as a couple, what do you see on your show and other places? probably like one or two of the biggest issues that continue to like drive a wedge financially in a marriage.

>> I mean the biggest one number one is people have my money and your money.

>> Yes. >> So you're 40,000, this is my 60,000, right? Like it's a billion dollars, right? >> But they they they try to they they're

driving two cars down the highway right next to each other trying to pretend that they're in the same car and they're they're not, right? So that's the first one. The second one, um, without a doubt, is financial infidelity, secrets.

I bought this and didn't tell him I'm going to buy this. Don't you tell your dad >> everything from a cup of coffee all the way to >> the new car, the new guitar or like we took a call earlier about the I'm I'm trying to day trade with borrowed money and I got myself. So, it's secrets. It's lies.

It's deception. >> Yep. Of continuing to hide. And what's so interesting too about that dynamic because I've heard people say that it's like, "Oh, just Yeah.

Don't Yeah. put the put the shopping bags away before dad gets home so that he doesn't see it because that means dad isn't looking at the bank statement or the credit card statement. >> That's the other side of it, right? >> That's wild to me.

Whenever people say that, I'm always like, but that's so unless they have a hidden account, right? Which is one thing, but the whole shopping because I mean, this is it's like a joke I feel like among women is like, okay, if you go to Target, hide the Target bags kind of thing. Um, which whenever I hear that, I'm always like, yes, but doesn't that show up? And isn't someone looking at the checking account, right?

And if just one person is, I give that a red flag of like you both need to be involved in seeing what's going on. It's one reason I do love every dollar with all the transactions that come in because Winston and I >> because it pops up on on each other's phone. >> And sometimes it comes up a weird name. I did this yesterday.

I was and I screenshot it and I text like what is this? They go that's insurance. And I was like, "Oh, shoot.

I wasn't sure what that was." Um, but it just keeps you in this rhythm and on the same page. So married couples out there, there are so many things with money that can drive a wedge and it can be one of the reasons of divorce in America today.

One of the top reasons, but it doesn't have to take your marriage, right? There [music] are things you can do. You can work together, be on the same team, do a budget together, have a plan together, have goals together, [music] and be in one car, like what John was saying, versus driving in two cars down the street. Be a team.

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio.

I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr.

John Deloney. You can give us a call at 88825-5225.

We are taking your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City and we have Austin on the line. Hi Austin.

>> Hey Rachel. Hey John. How's it going?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Hey, so I got married uh just this last summer and just enjoying married life and we've combined our lives, combined our finances. Um, but I'm kind of having

a hard time. Um, I feel like my wife isn't super involved with the finances.

Uh, I feel like it's kind of all on me, which is fine. I feel like we're in a good, healthy, responsible spot. I'm just wondering if I should strive harder to get her more involved. Uh, slash how could I do that? And then I also kind of have a fear that if something were to ever happen to me, she would be in a good spot, but not really know what to do with as far as finances go.

>> So, I'll answer this question backwards.

Um, I have sat with multiple wives

who have said the words, "I don't know what to do." >> Uhhuh. >> I don't know where the money is. I don't know where the accounts are. I don't know who holds any of our anything. And so your fear on that I' I've experienced that secondhand sitting with somebody.

So your fear is a 100% right. But I would say that's not the chief reason why I would want your wife involved.

But I want to ask you a question first. Is that cool?

>> Sure. >> Is she not involved because all you do is throw spreadsheets around and talk about this and like you're kind of annoying to be around or and I'm saying that laughingly by the way. Or does she just like >> not care? >> Not care.

>> Uh laughingly probably the first one, but also the second one. Okay.

>> I feel like I am that way. Um but also I feel like she just doesn't care. Well, and sometimes people don't care because they really just I just don't care. Like my mom didn't do it. My grandma didn't do it. So, I guess I'm not going to do it. And then sometimes people just take

their stuff and they go home cuz they realize my voice doesn't count here at this table. I don't get a vote. I don't know how you're using all these Excel formulas and clawed and enthropic. So, I'm just going to whatever. Right. And so I think for you as a new husband establishing in your relationship like telling her, I'm sorry. I set this up

this way, your voice matters here. I want you at the table here and we're going to co-ake decisions. And one of you is going to like in my in my marriage, my wife pushes the buttons. I don't send the bills to the electric company or whatever, but we talk about it, right? So one of y'all's going to do the the nuts and bolts of it, but y'all

being together is critical, man.

>> Yeah. So the the opposites attract thing is real Austin. She probably will never be someone that's like so excited to see her Excel sheets. Like that's just not going to probably be her.

>> And I can say that because that's me. I I am not that's not me. Winston is that he loves all the details and does all this like projecting out on things and I'm like that's great. >> Um but I'm not like super excited about it.

But we sit down every month and now I mean it's been 17 years. So now it's like you know quick 17 16 I'm jumping ahead but yeah 16 years. Uh but I mean it's quick conversations but we do a budget. We have every dollar transactions come in.

one that presses the buttons in our life of like yeah here I'm going to pay these bills and everything. Um but I'm still involved. And so I think that's the balance is you have to understand opposites attract. And what she brings to the table Austin's going to be really good for you. Like you may need to loosen up a little bit too, right? So she there she's a gift to you in that.

But then what she needs to understand is that she's an adult. She's a grown woman. She's married, which means you have to do adult things. Even though you don't like it, even though it's not your strength and it's not exciting to you, you have to do adult things. And adult things is learning how to manage a household financially. And again, she

may not be pumped about it, but that is part of growing up. And so for you guys to sit down together and look at the

numbers and do a budget together, have her change two or three things on the

budget, like whether it's amounts or she needs to add a category, like you do need her involved and and then you guys can kind of start working out of that.

So that's what I would say. you probably need to like chill a little bit with her and not be so detailed. But then also,

she on her end, she has to pull her weight to say, "Yeah, I'm I may not want to do this, but I need to because I'm an adult and we have to do things we don't always like." >> Does that make sense? >> Okay. Yeah, that's helpful. >> Yeah. How How old are you guys?

>> Uh oh, she probably wouldn't like me saying this. I'm 31 and she's in her early 30s.

She wouldn't like you saying I thought she were going to say she's like 18 and you're >> I thought you were going to say she's 51. [laughter] >> She wouldn't like you saying her age. >> A little bit older than me. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I do. I There's something magic um especially in a new relationship with somebody saying, "You know what? I have screwed this up out of the gate and I'm sorry.

I really want your voice at the table here and I can be really annoying with my spreadsheets. I'm going to commit to not doing that." Or and vice versa. Hey, I've been really annoying with just being like whatever. Um, I'm never going to be in a spreadsheet, but I want to be a part of the money conver like wherever you fall on that of of saying I have set this dynamic up in a bad way and I want to be a part of changing it.

So, good move on your part, brother. >> Awesome, Austin. Thanks. All right, let's go to Debbie in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi, Debbie.

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

When my husband retired from his first job, he received a pension and we took the pension and purchased a 10-year

deferred annuity.

>> Okay. >> Um we realized how um bad this decision

was later and we're wondering now if we

should take the 10% surrender charge hit

and just remove our principal and invest it with our other retirement money, hopefully making that back.

>> Yes. I mean, that's usually it. How much is in there?

>> Um, right now there's 366,000.

>> Oh my >> Oh, yes. >> Gosh. >> Yes. Cuz it would clear your debt, right? >> Uh, we don't have any. >> Oh, even better. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Um, >> we just spent a little bit on our mortgage. >> Yeah. When um Okay. When did he when did

he get this?

>> Uh, we purchased it in 2023.

>> Okay. So, it's fairly new. >> 88,000. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And we realize you you can with no surrender charge take 10% a year, but that's just a slow >> Well, I was gonna say that. Yeah. And it probably hasn't earned it a lot because you may have to pay on the gains of it, too. But I don't think there's not going to be a lot because it's so new.

>> Um >> the interest it supposedly earns versus the fees they're charging us. The fees are more than the entry. >> Yes. >> That's the thing about annuities that are so tough is the fees are so high and the person that's selling them gets a pretty good gets a pretty good deal.

Yeah, Debbie, I would. You're gonna have to freaking plug your nose when you do it, though. That's gonna it's gonna it's gonna hurt. But in the long run, putting that in an investment somewhere, even an index fund or something. Oh my gosh. Um

that's going to grow. How How old are you guys?

>> I'm 60 59.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you guys are at that at that point >> because >> Well, we have we have other retirement investment. We were about 1.2 million without this money. Okay. Is it a fixed or >> variable mixture?

This is flexible premium. Um

>> if that's Yeah, >> I don't know if that answers your question, but >> Okay. Um >> do you have a Smart Ver Pro?

>> No, but we do have a financial advisor that we've been working with.

>> Not the one that sold you this, is it?

>> No. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Yeah. I would talk to them and run the numbers because you guys are at retirement age and seeing, you know, what the cuz [music] what you would pay in penalties versus if you just slowly took this out >> um over time because you're at that age.

I I would run the numbers, but man, more than likely just for your kids' sake, [music] from a from a legacy perspective, if you were to leave your kids something, I think I'd rather it be in an account that's that's [music] earning more interest than what you guys are doing.

>> [music]

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[music]

If you have kicked debt to the curb and

curb curve curb I've always said curb.

>> What do you think it is? Kick to the curb. [music] Kick to the curve.

>> It's not the curve. It's the curve.

That's what my sheet says. So, as I was reading it, I was like, I don't know if >> kick to the curve. >> That's what it [laughter] says. I It's like Ron Burgundy and reading my sheet.

Good gosh. >> Oh my gosh. Okay, listen. If you are debtree and you have a fully funded emergency fund, do you know where you need to be? Not this March, but March of 2027. >> Not in the curve, cuz you've kicked it.

[laughter] You kicked that curve >> on the live like no one else cruise.

That's right, people. We are back. We did this last year and it was so fun. It was a boat full of people that are doing the Ramsay plan and who are debtfree and doing all the things we are and we loved it. It was such a great time. So, it's Dave Ramsey, all the Ramsay personalities. We're all going to be there on March 14th through the 21st,

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And I think it's I saw the numbers uh two days ago. I think it's right at 50% sold. So half the boat. >> All those people kicking their debt to the curve. >> To the curve. I was like I don't know if that's right. [gasps] All right, let's go to Salt [laughter] Lake City and we have Grace who is on the line. Hi, Grace. >> Hi guys. How are you guys today?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I'm going to try to make this like not long. It's really hard with the situation, but basically me and my partner, we're both still technically married. He has two kids. Mom is gone.

We're raising the two kids with us two.

We decided to combine our finances last summer. and we're in $91,000 of debt

accumulated. >> Okay. >> And our monthly income is like 5,700

after taxes and we just don't know what to do. And we have other expenses too.

Last week we found out I was pregnant and then um we >> Did you say you're Grace? I'm so sorry. Did you say you're married to him?

>> We are both married to different people.

Okay.

>> So, we live together and we've combined our finances. >> Are you guys both in the middle of divorces?

>> Yeah. So, mine's finished in February.

So, mine's done almost. His we haven't even started because of the custody and all that. You know, >> I would if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, if you were my close friend, I would tell you do not combine your finances to that mess until it is cleared.

>> Okay? Please, please, please don't >> because it can get so >> separate when like our like our rent,

all these things are already accumulated. >> Venmo each other >> if you need to. But don't don't don't put your names on each other's stuff.

Don't be combining accounts. Don't be doing any of that.

>> Oh, okay. I see. Yeah. I don't think we've really done that. We have separate accounts and everything like that, but we like I'll pay his bills, he'll pay my

bills. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, >> no. >> Like, y'all are college roommates right now.

>> Cuz here's the deal, Grace. He hasn't even gone through a divorce. When they go through and do all the mediation and they do, you know, they they they take all the assets and all of it. If you're paying on his on his debt, like you're you're, you know, in that situation. I don't know. It gets all it gets all muddled so quickly.

>> Yeah. I guess the problem is is that we both don't have any assets besides our cars with car payments. We don't own houses. They there's no money in the banks for either of us. It's like we are

living week to week. Like we live off his paycheck one week, we live off my paycheck one week. That's how we're living our life. >> Okay. He's on the phone. So I just want to talk to you. Is that cool?

>> He's not on the phone. No, >> I'm saying like I I right now I want you to focus on what you can control. Okay.

Okay. >> How much money do you make?

>> I make So, what makes it complicated, too, is I'm on commissionbased salary.

So, I make my baseline is about $2,500 a

month and then more like 24 cuz I get paid

like 1,200 bi-weekly.

And then sometimes I take in $700 in a

bonus in a month and then sometimes it's three grand, sometimes it's four grand, sometimes it's 2500 or if I don't make goal I don't like last month I didn't get a bonus at all.

>> Okay. So that feels like you are very economically insecure, >> right? >> What was your W2 last year or what did you report on your taxes last year?

>> 48,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. So in a situation like this, Grace, what I would do is we call it the

the hills and valleys funds fund if you

will. >> So I would be so diligent and again this

gets really complicated because you guys are sharing bills and all of it. Um >> and now you're sharing a human, right?

>> Okay. >> So as much as you can to go through and

draw a line and say, "Okay, here's what I would owe." Right? Whatever the utility is, I owe half. Like, if you can function like roommates financially, I think that's gonna be really important because I want you to get your money in order. So, what John was getting at is, hey, Grace, how much do you make? How much do you make? And you have to learn to live on your salary and your

commission, right? And so, how do we create a budget for you, Grace? Not for him, for you. And so what that means is,

yeah, when you have a great month, that means you're probably going to put, you know, a thousand bucks or so into this other account. So that when you have a month that's just $2,500 and you don't earn a commission, you can pull some money out to pay your part of the bills.

So it needs to have a really really um

black and white situation financially with him. Okay, that's that's the cleanest way to do it. And then when all when he gets through all of his divorce stuff and you guys I mean I'm assuming you guys get married eventually.

>> Yeah, that's the goal. Like I guess where it's complicated is that like this $5,000 retainer is what's holding us up

because like the way that we cuz I've

been listening to you guys on the show and basically we were you know thinking we should combine everything and do everything like that. >> Not until you're married. >> We want to be married. We want if we could be married, we would have already gone to the courthouse.

>> But you're I hear you. But it does it's not an emotional it's a it's a legal issue, right? So like >> it's not Oh gosh, we want to be married so we should combine finances. No, no, no.

You're not legally married. You have no protection. So So no, we're not combining finances. And is his the $5,000 retainer that he needs to figure out?

>> Right.

mom. Like it's a whole >> I know. But Grace, listen to me. And I know you don't want to hear this. We're just telling you cuz we do this. We do we take these calls all day every day.

>> Mhm. >> The chances of you working extra shifts, paying $4,000 of this $5,000 retainer, you paying the bills while he goes through his divorce and then suddenly they reconcile

or suddenly he doesn't love you anymore

or suddenly whatever. And the reason I know that you have a psychology for that is because it's happened to you in your marriage.

What you'll find yourself with is a brand new baby and you'll have nothing.

>> Yeah. >> And so I I I I care about the woman on the phone that I'm talking to. I care about him, too, but I'm not talking to him. >> He needs to come up with his money for his divorce.

>> You And by the way, you don't have enough money to even be helping with that. >> You I I feel like there's two people who are F math students trying to work

together to get an A on an exam.

Yes. >> Right. And so I want you to work on your math skills.

>> And it may be I got to get a different job. It may be I've got to figure out some new things. But I want you to start getting concrete under your feet because you're your life right now is a is a seessaw. And that's exhausting,

>> right?

>> And he can play on the seesaw all day long, but I want you to stand on the sidewalk on firm >> concrete. And this is going to be hard because this is not only a mathematical financial issue. It's a relational issue. big time when you like like if you do this I will be surprised like it would be easier to get off the phone and just keep doing what you've been doing and then you look up in 2 years and sadly a reality hits that's not what [music] not the picture you painted or you do what we say what we recommend I mean honestly and and you do this and then he goes through all of his stuff and my prayer is that sure at the end of all of it you guys are still in love you have a baby and then you've had a you have a strong financial foundation under you he does as Well, you guys get married, you combine it all, [music] and then you you go from there.

And you're actually building on something strong, not something that is so shaky like it is now. But the the way to do it, the smart way to build is [music] separately. Financially, you need to be separate.

have to think about it that way.

[music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> Well, here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from 1 to 4

here on the glass. We have always a wonderful audience that that comes out.

And over to the side, we have the

debtfree stage. And whenever we see someone on it, we know what it is. And so, we have we have Matthew and Bri from

Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome you guys.

Thank you. Happy to be here. We're very excited to be here. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, you're obviously on the stage. >> You guys are debtree. That's correct.

>> How much debt did you pay off?

>> 110,000. >> Oh my gosh. What did that consist of?

>> Um, two car notes, um, a little bit of student loans, and some personal loans.

>> Oh my gosh. All personal debt. All All consumer debt. >> Yeah, consumer debt. We didn't have any uh credit card debt, thankfully, but um we just uh um decided to get after it and just uh paid it off. And >> I love it. How long did it take you? Uh about 10 months. >> Oh my gosh. How were you guys making during that time? >> Um roughly about about 115 a year, give

or take. Um I work in healthcare and so it can kind of fluctuate um just on the overtime.

>> Um I'm a CT tech and so um we decided

last year to um go on an adventure and

um instead of travel nursing, think of travel CT. And so um we rented out our

house um originally in Las Vegas. That's where I'm from. >> And I'm from North Carolina. Okay.

>> So, moved to Las Vegas, >> which is where we met. >> Yep. We got married and then we wanted to downsize everything and then we did tiny house living. >> Oh, yeah.

It was pretty It was pretty gnarly. >> Oh my gosh. How long have y'all been married? >> Uh, three and a half years.

>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> So, um, but literally last year, it was about a year ago today, we just looked at each other and we're like, we we make too much money to be this darn broke.

um both of us had always talked about moving to Nashville. She went to college in East Tennessee. Okay. >> And so um and I worked for a healthcare

corporation that's pretty big out here and then I got the job for Vanderbilt.

But um just uh we feel really really blessed and really >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. a lot of prayer was over this and uh so we're excited to be here in Tennessee after a lot of years of uh

praying and figuring out like where God was calling us to go. So amazing. And so here we did sell our house. Um so that was a big uh a big thing that just kind of just >> helped it. Okay. I was going to ask cuz you guys basically you basically paid off the amount of debt you make in a year. So I was like so something must have happened. Yes. So, we paid off roughly about 20 grand um during the

time of the whole travel thing because we've been out here since mid July and so is when we made the move out. But we we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt with that move cuz it was >> halfway across the country and so it was really kind of um uh really kind of an experience just uh eating, you know, homemade pizza and just kind of, you know, >> beautiful. We just went on so many walks and like the mountains and the nature and just like the stillness and that's really yeah what we just soaked in.

So >> that's amazing you guys. >> So whose idea was it?

Oh yeah. And so I think it was like a 13week course back then. >> Oh yes. I was up to you. That's right.

>> When I was like 19 and um I was like oh my gosh I have to start investing. I have to start doing all this type of stuff. [laughter] And so, um, I was able to go to college debtree. Um, just, you

know, work working multiple jobs. Um, and then we got married kind of and got

married kind of. [laughter] Sorry. >> We did. >> We got legally married first. And then we had our second that makes sense.

Okay. >> Um, and so we kind of lived the I I hate to say this, but like the Daveish. We kind of just fell into that monotony.

Um, and then like I said last year we

really looked at each other and like this is ridiculous. >> I didn't really know much about um Dave Ramsey. >> Yeah. [laughter] Or anything.

And so he introduced me to it and what the baby steps were and just like getting after it. And I love traveling. And so whenever I was looking at different jobs and traveling jobs and saw that his job could travel um I was like, "Oh, the best of both worlds." And so yeah, that's kind of how we went with that route. >> Yeah.

And so and we knew we wanted to get out here eventually, but we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt >> for that. Yes. >> If that, you know, >> totally. So you stopped that.

So you were like, "No more debt." So we got to save. We got to be thinking about this move, >> right? Exactly. >> In a wise way while still thinking about all this other debt you have.

So we want to start paying it off. >> Exactly. And so we just, you know, >> downsized everything we could fit into our Subaru. And then we had a trailer um that we also had some stuff on it.

Yeah. And then when we got here about 7 months ago to Tennessee, then we got some stuff. Um, and we're in an apartment right now. And so, yeah, we're excited for you. The >> future. Yeah. And so we >> What an adventure. >> It's been crazy. It's been so much change, but we're just excited now to like settle down, hopefully have kids, and really Yeah. Just see what's next.

>> How does it feel being debtree?

>> It feels really good. >> Relief. like it's just like a like a brick has been taken off off our chest because we knew that like it was coming, you know, but um it's just such a relief and we're never going back. >> Yeah. No, definitely not.

>> So, so I want to throw this example out.

You guys are in Nashville right now.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. We're around the Gulch area >> and y'all went through this wild storm last week. >> Yes. Yeah. [laughter] >> And my my wife and I were talking um

like imagine being in that moment and we have to get out of here. We need to go get a hotel or something. >> Mhm. >> And we can't.

>> Yeah. >> And y'all are debtree. Y'all go through this first big storm and what y'all got to do is what y'all wanted to do.

>> Yeah. >> Because you've worked for this all this time, sold everything, did it. But we put ourselves in a position to not if but when life happens.

>> Yes. We get to decide what happens next.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. It's just um you know I've heard both of you say you know it's a it's not an emergency. It's just an inconvenience and it's it's kind of decided it's like weather or you got to travel for a family thing like whatever it is you're like okay we can do this like we're good.

>> Definitely experienced that since we moved here cuz things happen. Car crashes all these random things and or like a hospital bill from like way back when two years ago shows up and you're like what and then you just pay it off and you're like whoa. Like that was a really cool feeling and we just know that it was all um through God and him um helping us. >> Yeah.

The whole time. >> So it was kind of we took care of um you know we were we were obviously um chopping away at that tree on baby step two but then we um with the sale of the house we just took care of baby step three as well and so we're just >> How much did y'all get for the house when you sold?

was it was a big chunk of change.

And so we were able to put a little bit away and um now it's just kind of sit sitting in an account and um we want to um buy a home out here hopefully. But but we're in no rush and we get to kind of just take a breather and just kind of just Nothing is urgent. Nothing is

>> there's some great restaurants in the Gulf and y'all can just go when you want. Exactly. It's nice a little bit.

>> So what would you say besides selling a really nice house? What would you say the key of getting out of debt is? What was one of the things that was so helpful?

>> So and I'm the free spirit and she's the definitely budget-minded. Now I am, but I used to be the free spirit. So we've we've uh kind of >> Yes. I'm kind of like you. I'm such a free spirit, but I'm the one that tracks all the transactions and every dollar.

>> Now I am. And that's what my mom always did just in the household and just like now just being married a little bit.

It's not been that long, but just seeing like um parent roles and like what they did and like how to be a wife and what I'm supposed to be, you know, in charge of. And so I'm just trying to Yeah.

>> No, it's great. >> All that. It's great. Well, you guys are awesome and and and how you are, you know, personality wise, you lean into that, how you create, which is amazing.

And I see that in you guys. You you create such a great team, >> which is so fun. And just the diligence and the adventure, which I love.

[laughter] That's a part of your story.

>> Bri, I've never heard somebody say that, but every couple has to pick their sacrifice. Yes. And for y'all, it's selling the house. For y'all, it was we're going to travel or we're not going to travel. For me and my wife, might be something different, but every couple has to get together and choose their sacrifices. I love that. >> That's awesome. All right, you guys ready? >> I think we're ready. We're going to count down. >> Okay, so we have Matthew and Bri from Colorado. Now live in Nashville, Tennessee. They've paid off $110,000

of debt. That's cars, student loans, and personal loans in 10 months, making $115,000 of income with the sale of a house. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear it. Debtree, 2, we're debtree.

Amazing. [applause and music]

Oh my gosh. It's a joy. It's how it's done, people. That is how it's done, >> dude. They're smiling and dancing.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Our [music] scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 29:11. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord.

Plans to prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future. Jim Collins said, "It is better

to understand who you are than where you are going, for where you are going will almost surely change." H >> I love that quote. >> That's good. Do you think we change though? Who you are? >> Yes. >> So both both hands, right, Jim?

Understand who you are

>> more than where you're going because where you're going is going to change, but also who you are may change, too.

>> You need to kick that to the curve. >> I don't know what >> that attitude.

>> No, I'm totally kidding. You said we could change, too. I don't know. [gasps] I like it all.

I kind of like I kind of these quotes are always great. We've done them for the entire, you know, beginning of the show. They there's always a scripture and always a quote, but sometimes these quotes, I like to kind of pick them apart. See what I would what I [laughter] would say differently.

[gasps] All right. Not that I would correct Jim Collins. I mean, sorry, Jim. No, [laughter] >> much wiser than me.

I'm going to stick with your quote, Jim. All right. Let's go to April in St. Louis.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Good. So, I um I'm in a great situation.

I've paid off all my debt and I'm investing. However, I want to know how

you define the line of being generous without becoming the family bailout.

>> Oh, good question. What's the situation?

Why would you be the family bailout?

Like, what's the family what's the family need bailing out of?

>> Uh, a lot of things, actually. So, I have a sister who's on the brink of bankruptcy and she's uh she's got two

kids. I've been helping her with car situations. So, I bought her a car

actually, ironically, in April and it just took a it just the engine just went on that. So, I'm giving her my car and buying myself a new car.

>> And then my my parents did not plan for

their retirement. they are living on social security and drowning because they've also taken on more debt that they can actually pay. So my dad does Door Dash, but um they they are drowning

and they can't really pay their bills, so they come to me quite often to help out.

>> Gosh. Okay. So your situation, you obviously have done well. What's your net worth?

Uh right now uh well I guess I'm married

now so our net worth is is just about

three million. >> Okay. And you guys are debt I mean debtree everything. Yeah. You guys are doing great. >> Completely debtree.

>> Oh go ahead.

>> I I went through my own like journey of

realizing how much I was paying to interest. I had credit cards and auto loans and student debt.

>> And I took on second jobs to get myself to a position between 25 and 32 of being

debtree and then starting to to invest.

And then my husband, he had a really great example. Um, so he bought a home when he was 25 and was able to pay that off quickly. >> Oh wow. Yeah. You guys were just wise for situation, but my >> fortunate you worked for it. You made smart decisions, too, so give yourself that credit. Yeah. >> Thank you. Yep.

So I I like to think of generosity as a as a it's like an approach, right? It's like a it's like a spirit of >> it's and so >> everybody has to decide what that means for themselves. Some people's generosity, they look at it like an ROI.

I want to I want to give to something. I want to give to things that I want to see multiply.

Some people like to give and just because I want to be a part of what you're doing. Some people want to give because >> I don't like it, but it's the right thing. >> I I have deemed it to be the right thing. >> Right. Right. >> But none of that comes from a spirit of guilt.

>> And none of it and here's the other thing. None of it comes from a spirit of

somebody's going to be worse off because I kept doing this because then my guilt ends up putting somebody in a worse position.

It's never the guilt of them being in a bad position, but it's the guilt of them not learning from their mistakes is is the problem that I grapple with.

>> Yeah. The challenge is they're not interested in learning right now.

>> Correct. >> Right. And so I think it's having that kind of conversation. Um and I it sounds to me in my head there would be a difference between my parents situation and my sister. Right.

Mhm. >> But but again, everybody's different >> of like meaning of just like taking care of like you >> Yeah. Like I mean it's it's cool to say like they didn't plan so they're on their own, but also I'm not going to let my parents be homeless, right?

Especially if I'm in a position where >> I I can help out. And so, but I I I might sit down and say, "Hey, if you take on any more debt, I can't contribute to this,

>> right?" >> Yeah. >> Or I need you to make >> Have you had Have you had hard conversations in general, April, with them? Yeah. Yeah. Um I have and I've

even sat down and like worked budgets with them and and then they you know the next month they just blow that up and they do whatever they want and they buy whatever they want. So we've gone through several conversations of how can

they do better and what can we do to set them on the right path. Um they went

through their own foreclosure and bankruptcy. >> My gosh. Six years ago.

>> I mean nothing's nothing's waking them up. It sounds like >> no that they've had two bankruptcies actually. So >> you go through financial literacy training with a bankruptcy. So it it really boggles my mind that >> they're just not learning. >> How old are they late?

>> 70. They're Yeah. Yeah. They're just 70.

So >> And what would happen if you didn't I'm just curious. If you did not give them any money, what would what would happen to them? Would they not be able to pay their mortgage? Like like logistically, what happens?

I think that they would fall into a position where they couldn't pay their rent and they would eventually >> have some eviction process >> and then what

>> I don't know cuz physically they also can't they're not um physically financially they're not capable >> like we're [clears throat] actually looking at my mom going into an assisted living because of how bad things are and

uh so it it's more than just financial But it's uh you know I I love to

dedicate my time to help them with their problem and I do dedicate my money but

you know there's a there's a give and take. >> Yeah. Well I I

personally if I if somebody comes to me if a buddy of mine from back in the day comes to me and says hey I'm struggling with X Y and Z. I need some help. I'm

much more likely to say, I will help with this car repair or I will pay the landlord directly or I

me and two of my siblings will contribute to, you know, the long-term care. I'm not going to write you a check and hand you cash.

>> Right. Right. >> Right. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to do this because you are pro have proven over and over you can't handle this stuff. I think you and your husband need to get in a room together and just decide. >> Yeah. What does he say? >> What are our boundaries going to be?

>> What's your husband say about it?

>> Um, so this is where we break the all the Ramsay rules because we've been

together 13 14 years. Married three of

those and we've never completely merged

our checking. >> Okay. So, you're Does he know you're giving them money? >> He knows. Yeah, he knows. and and uh

it's always a conversation every time I do it because >> it you know it's our future. We do have

planning together. >> This is a recipe for simmering resentment over time.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

So, I think this is the moment, April, honestly, that you guys combine everything and you say, "We are a team, which means we're going to tackle one of the hardest issues probably we're going to have to in a while." And that's what is being generous with my parents look like and we're going to agree together on that with our money. And there's something about that spirit that kind of like it's almost like you're adding a conflict to a really hard thing. But there's a part of me that's like it kind of forces it all out there for you guys and and and it forces you to face the music together and for you maybe to hear some things you may not want to hear or need to hear vice versa with him.

I don't know. There's something about it that I'm like you guys need to go all in together.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and you have to like I would just metabolize. Nothing you can say or do is going to change how your parents act. >> Y >> that ship has sailed.

>> You have to decide what are you going to contribute out of a spirit of generosity. And um I I'm going to do X,

Y, or Z, [music] but we're done trying to teach. >> As for your sister, maybe you say this is the last time I bail you out unless you want to [music] do a budget with me.

>> Thanks for the call, April. Thanks everyone in the booth. John, thank you as always. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial [music] peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

---

## 54. Fear Doesn't Call The Shots On Your Finances | June 3, 2026


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `2MT__MJtW_Y` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MT__MJtW_Y) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:29:09 |

---

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. He's my co-host today. Gabe is in Salt Lake City. Hey Gabe, what's up in your world? Dave, I'm

here. That is me. Dave, it's nice to have you uh talking to me and I really appreciate you taking my call. >> Our pleasure. >> Um George, too. Um so, random question.

Um so, my my dad is very kind. Every time my wife and I have a child, he gives us a 1oz gold coin. That's the

kids, they own it, right? Um I brought

it to his attention. I was like, "Well, if it's theirs and they can do whatever they want with it. Let's invest it for them so that by the time they're 18, you know, they have a substantial amount of money." because right now they're, you know, between ages 1 and seven. Um, and so he doesn't want us to do that because he wants it to be like a heirloom type thing or some sort of way to remember him, which I get that, but it's also really not doing them any favors having the coins sit in my safe not doing anything, not gaining any interest.

obligation to do as he says and not do anything with it or invest it and wait till they're 18 to give it to them or if I can go ahead and do what I think is best for my kids and invest the money or the the coins cuz right now they're worth anywhere between, you know, 4,500 bucks and five grand an ounce depending on the day.

>> Yeah. I mean, you've had a conversation and he told you not to do that.

Correct. Yeah. But I just I don't I don't agree. So I'm like, well, they're my kids technically. They're not his. So I'm like, well, I I don't I don't to me.

It seems like I'm doing them a disservice if anything just having it sit there. So I don't know.

Yeah. Um,

I I I um I I would come down personally

on the idea that my relationship with my dad is more important than four grand.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, it's not for me. It's >> It doesn't matter who it's for. It's for my kids. Four grand for my kids.

>> And by the way, it's not really a $4,000 discussion we're having. It's whatever it would grow if it were invested versus what gold did. And it would be, you know, it might not be 4 grand. So, um, >> is he doing this regularly?

>> No, one time when they're born.

>> Uh, one time when they're born. So, you know, we have six kids, so we have six coins. >> All right.

Yeah. How How old is your dad?

>> How's he feeling? >> A pertinent variable.

>> How's he How's he getting along?

Yeah. Uh he's, you know, he's he's he's

kicking. He's doing, you know, he's he's doing good, which I hopefully that means something good for me when I uh >> I I personally would just forget that you have the coins and put them in a safe and just not worry about it. And you need to do whatever you need to do for your children's benefit and then someday that coin will be around. Um >> are you investing for your kids outside of that for college or anything else?

Uh, no. Not we haven't started doing that yet. We need to, but are you on that baby step? >> Nice jump start.

>> Uh, are we on that baby step? No, we're not. >> Okay. Well, you shouldn't be until you get there. But yeah, so finish up getting out of debt. Get your emergency fund in place. You guys live your life and take care of your kids and then this becomes an irrelevant issue because you've taken care of them

financially. You've prepared for their college financially and whatever.

>> And my guess is once they're adults, they'll choose what they want to do with it. you know, and and you know, all kidding aside, when he passes away, I'm cashing him in, but um I'm not going to

do that. So, my my grandmother used to give my kids savings bonds uh every so often. Uh not just at birth. Um not substantial amounts of money, but not not as much as these coins are worth even. But I never really asked her about them. I didn't say anything about it. I just cashed them in.

>> I didn't even bring it up.

>> Uh but now that you brought it up, you got a problem, you know. Now everybody knows >> I cashed them in and I put the money in a mutual fund. And when my grandmother asked me how the bonds were doing, I would give her an honest answer and say they're doing very well.

>> Now that I cashed them in and put them in a mutual fund, I didn't say that part, but yeah, but I I um I I would not

have hurt her feelings or stirred up a

relational uh strife between me and my granny over that amount of money. It wouldn't have been worth it to me. >> Yeah. Yeah, if this is meant to be an heirloom sort of gift from him, it's like getting a, you know, a pair of socks from grandma. I'm going to keep them around cuz grandma gave it to me.

>> I got grandpa's pocketk knife, too.

>> Yeah, that's a cool heirloom. >> But, but, you know, it's not >> you're not going to sell it >> and I'm not going to sell it. Um, and it's not worth anything except to me.

>> So, that's an heirloom. That's what an heirloom is. An heirloom is not an investment. So, when you con convolute the two, you make a mistake. And so, dad is making a mistake. Yeah.

>> But uh and the other mistake he's making is he's asking >> he's giving a gift and then putting extreme >> conditions >> conditions upon it. >> Strings are >> guilt trips guilt trips upon it. If you sell it, they won't have anything to remember me by. >> Give them something else to remember you by that doesn't involve a liquid asset like that.

>> How about a fishing trip? Yeah. Uh teach them to water ski. You know, all my my grandkids are going to remember a lot of things about me, you know, but um >> I'll remember that you taught me to water ski.

>> There we go.

>> Yeah. Drug George around behind the boat until >> I didn't do as well as the children did.

But I hung on for dear life. I'll tell you. >> He got up. He got up and rode. Man, I'm a good teacher and George is George is persevering. >> He's a great coach. >> But I mean that, you know, you remember that more than that gold coin I didn't give you. >> You see, >> the problem is it's worth $4,500. So he's going, that's a lot of money for a child.

>> 25 26 grand. You're not serious money laying around. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just Yeah. I I >> But I I do think the relationship is on the line. And so is it that's what you're really betting against?

>> Yeah. If it was $4 million, I'm probably going to tell dad, you know, hey, but for four grand, I'm

not going to do that, you know. So that that's the issue and that that's how we work it out. So, good question. So, one of the things moms and dads that listen to this show, um, grandparents that listen to the show, uh, need to think about is what kind of strings are you putting on a gift and at what point at how many strings does a gift have to have before it's not really a gift. It's just a control feature.

>> So, you know, I've got a friend that gave all of his grown children and their

spouses a free house. He paid for it.

>> Wow. And the only string was he had them sign a letter that said they would never borrow money. >> I like that. >> Now, is that too much control for a free house?

>> No. >> Not. But if a kid said, "Oh, no. I might want to borrow money someday, so I'm going to have to deny that gift." Then that would be a fair thing that they could do that.

They could say, "I don't agree with you on the debtree living. I want to go and use leverage and other people's money. I've been watching real estate Tik Tok videos and so I want to get rich quick in real estate so I'm not going to accept that gift. They could choose to do that.

>> Yeah, that's a little awkward. >> You have to say that on the front end >> communication. >> This is what we're doing and then once you've agreed to it, you've agreed to it. And so in a sense, Gabe has accepted

the coin >> with the terms and conditions >> with the terms that he won't sell it because it's a heirloom.

>> And so in that sense, that's the that's the string attached to that coin. Is that too much? Uh no, I don't think it is. I don't think it is. And I think if I was the giver of the other thing you could do, switch uh

uh switch places. What if you were on the other side and how would you feel?

>> That's a good point. >> Yeah. The watch I'm wearing was an heirloom gift and they said just don't sell it. I said guarantee I will not sell it. I'm going to make grandpa happy. >> There you go. >> So there you go. >> Was it grandpa? >> Yeah, my wife's grandpa. He passed and so grandma said the watch is yours. You can fix it up and keep >> as long as you don't sell it. >> And so I will never sell this watch. >> That's a fair gift. I like that.

>> I like it. Cool watch. >> Thank you.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price.

No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Greg is with us in Idaho Falls, Idaho.

Hi, Greg. How are you?

>> Doing good yourself, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my wife, just to kind of let you know from the beginning, my wife and I started your program back in 2010. My

aunt gave me some CDs of yours and so we've kept to that pretty much our entire marriage of 15 years now, almost 16 years. Um, we are now to the point

over uh that time we've had ups and downs in our finances in the sense of how much we make, but we have always been able to stay debtree.

And uh back in 2023, we purchased our

first home. We could now officially purchase our first home, afford to do it, and but our children um ages 13 to

nine. We've got four children. uh are

now, you know, getting into those teenage years where my wife wants to start doing vacations to really build

memories and different things like that because we've never really had a lot of money to do that. Whereas I want to work

on paying off our mortgage faster. Um,

we've kind of gone up and down in the sense of paying a few extra $100 here and there on each payment, but she is

really fighting against it because she wants to save that money for doing things and creating memories for our kids. Am I in the wrong here?

>> Now, this is the stage at which you would do vacations. I'm assuming you're out of debt and have your emergency fund, >> correct? Yeah, we've got about 40,000 in our bank account. Are you putting 15% of your income away for retirement?

>> Yes. Okay. Yeah, we >> are you putting more than that away for retirement? >> We are not. >> Are you saving any other money?

>> So, we have No, we are not. We We've got

Well, we've got a um I work for the

state of Idaho, so we've got a Percy uh

pension fund that we have. >> I mean, you don't have $100,000 sitting in cash over to the side just cuz you're a saver.

No, no, but we've got we've got about 40,000 in cash.

>> Is that your emergency fund?

>> It it is portion of it is our emergency fund. The other portion is just regular savings. Just savings basically your savings in an envelope. We've got the

way our credit union works is we can make digital envelopes and put them in, you know, we put >> some into Are those what are those other savings earmarked for?

>> Yeah. Uh yes we do. We've got one that's basically uh miscellaneous that we >> And how much is in miscellaneous?

>> About 10 grand or so.

>> You have a vacation envelope?

>> We do. >> How much is in that?

>> About 3,000.

>> Okay. And um what do you owe on your mortgage?

>> We owe about 377,000.

>> Okay.

And um

Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh about 105,000 and that's only been

within the last 3 years as well. We we moved up here due to a job that >> paid us enough to to really do well.

>> First I'm going to tell you that both of you you and your wife have done a wonderful job. >> You are really on top of this. I'm so impressed with where you are and how you've gotten there, the journey that you've been on. You you you have worked the plan that we teach. Thank you for doing that and and the success in your finances as a parent. So, way to go.

>> Thank you. >> Now, what comes to mind is a couple things. The answer to your question, sadly, is you're both right.

>> Nobody wins here. >> Yes, we should reduce the mortgage and yes, we should go on vacation. Right.

That's but and this is the stage four, five and six where you live not intensely but intentionally

>> and intentionally would be we upgrade mama's car, we buy a couch, we go on vacation and we also want to get to baby step six and pay down this 375 because we don't want to just sit there and look at us. Okay. Yeah.

>> So I think um what we want to talk about is you and her I would suggest you talk about exact numbers.

>> Yeah. So, when you say, "Mom, that you

want to do some vacations with the kids,

let's put a number on that. What What do you mean?" >> Well, to kind of to kind of give you a little bit of a history on that, I come from a family that has traveled quite a bit. I mean, my my parents, we weren't we weren't ever rich, but my dad worked for the post office for 40 years. Mhm.

>> So he, you know, he's and they've been extremely wise with their money, which has always been. >> So I mean, what does she mean when she says she wants to travel?

>> She means she wants to experience the same thing. I mean, I >> What does it cost to do what she wants to do?

>> Uh, say that. I'm sorry. Say that.

>> What does it cost >> to do what she wants to do?

>> 4,000, 10,000, or 40,000? Well, she

wants she wants to, you know, she's not the type of person that has to go to the the Hilton or the >> Honey, what does it cost to do what she

wants to do?

>> Uh, probably anywhere between 4 to 5,000. >> Shut up and do it. >> You have the money. Use a little bit of that miscellaneous fund and >> that's not going to keep you from paying off the mortgage. >> And then for the future, just set up that scing fund. If you guys decide we're doing 6,000 worth of vacations a year, >> 3,000 of the 4,000 in the envelope.

>> Okay. >> And honey, I'm going to agree to a $4,000 budget. And after that, you're going to let me do what I want to do, which is everything past that, we're going to be chunking on to the mortgage.

>> We both get what we want.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so the 4,000 is not prohibitive. In the scenario you gave me, you guys have been too good about what you're doing to have

4,000 keep you from getting to baby step 7. It won't do it.

>> Well, and then and that's not, you know, I mean, we we've got a basement we're trying to finish. And I guess that's where I was hoping we would be able to put more money towards that and getting the house paid off rather than >> All you got to do is just sit down with these things and go, "Okay, if we put 4,000 there, what do we put on the basement?" Or maybe we hold off on the basement because we're traveling because I still want to reduce the mortgage. Or maybe I hold off reducing the mortgage to get the basement finished and then I'm going to reduce the mortgage.

So all you do is just line these things up and force rank them. But the thing is I have found with my wife and I found with everybody I've coached with over the years.

The first one of those I ever had, my wife was driving one of those horrible tricolored blue Astro vans.

>> Nasty. It smelled like the family dog

and goldfish were ground into the carpet. >> I'm not talking about real goldfish. I'm talking about the crackers. Right.

And uh she was This thing had like 800,000 million miles on it and it smoked like a tar wagon. like it was the Batman smoke mobile. And she's like, "I need a new car." And I'm like, "Yes, you need a new car. What do you want to spend on a new car?

I need a new car. What do you want to spend? I WOULD WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SPEND ON THE CAR?" MY GOD.

it. Okay. And then so we settled on we're going to spend $15,000. Well, that settled it cuz I had 30 and I was wanting to do some stuff here at the office, some reinvestment. I said, "All right, let's get the car and then I'll do the reinvestment. I can wait a little bit. Let's get you a car cuz you do need a car. But if you want a $110,000 car,

no, we do have something to argue about.

>> It's unreasonable. But we're not moving from the goldfish Astro van to 110. It wasn't that big a step up, right?

>> Yeah. The villain here is not vacations.

It's the lack of clarity.

>> Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. >> And so I think you can set up the scing fund and go, "All right, we're going to put 500 bucks away for vacations and 500 bucks onto the mortgage if you have a,000 bucks left over each month." That's an easy way to do it. But the fact of the matter is you're not budgeting. You're not sitting down going, "Where is every dollar going?" >> But you can't have these conversations where you roll your eyes and say, "Well, I just wish we could have fun." Well, he said, "I already did all the travel when I was a kid." >> What does that mean?

I just wish we could enjoy ourselves.

>> Well, I mean, is it talking about me paying off the mortgage? I'm having joy.

Okay. So, what are you talking about here? Well, we could if I could just go out to eat once a month. Well, then shut up. We can do that. You don't need to roll your eyes to get that. You need to just give me a dollar amount and I can put it in the budget. >> You know, this is this is nor All a man wants is clarity. Yeah. And that really, seriously, this is the argument that most people have. Put a number to it

>> then you might have to argue. But until you put a number to it, you don't have an argument. >> It's just feelings and vibes.

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So, the market was up 17% last year.

It's up 11% this year so far.

And it was up 23% the year or 26% the

year before. um it doesn't always have

those kinds of numbers, but it averages about 11% a year. So, if it doesn't make any more this year, um that would be the average. And it does look like it probably will make more than that this year, um based on what's going on.

Sometimes what you need to start investing is just some coach you and

teach you, someone with the heart of a teacher. So for help with investing, you should get a Smart Invest Pro in your corner.

Smart Investor pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the heart of a teacher. We've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years. They can help you create a plan and they will teach you and you will make your investing decisions. They don't make them for you and Dave doesn't make them for you. But not participating in these wonderful rates of return because you don't know instead of getting a teacher to teach you so you do know, that's silly. So, we'll show you

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that we have vetted and that have that heart of a teacher for free. Go to ramseolutions.com/smartfester to find an investing pro near you. Or if

you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. and it'll drop you right there. Kim is in North Carolina. Hi, Kim. How are you?

>> Hey, good, >> good. What's up? >> How are you? >> How can we help?

>> Um, I sold a property, but I'm the bank and I

need to foreclose on it for nonpayment

for a little over a year.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, you do. But >> I'm having trouble finding a lawyer that will do the work.

>> Why?

Well, it's either two people said they were near retirement and they only did traffic court. Other people said they don't do that area.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, I don't know if I >> Okay. Hey, just jump on jump on Can you jump on our website? How old are you, Kim?

>> I'm 51. >> 51. 51.

>> Yes. >> Oh, cool. Okay. All right. Well, jump on our website at ramseysolutions.com and look up the real estate agent in your area. The Ramsey trusted real estate agent or agents in your area.

Pick up the phone and call them and ask

them who tell them you talked to me on the air and I said you that they would give you a name of a real estate attorney that does foreclosures.

>> Okay? >> And a real estate agent will know a real estate attorney that does foreclosures.

That's what you need. You don't need somebody that did traffic court.

>> Well, no. I mean, they used to do foreclosures, real estate issues, but then they're near retirement, so they're slowing down. >> Yeah. Wrong one. We want somebody You're You've You've waited too long to do this. You needed to have done this about five or six or seven months ago, and now that it's a year late, and you need to get on this this week.

>> Oh, I know. >> Yeah. Don't Don't don't sit on this. I want you to find an attorney in the next seven days and start the foreclosure.

You just make that your mission. Okay.

>> Yes.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah. If you'll go to Ramsey Solutions to Ramseyed, you can do that. George, you got any other suggestions on how to find one? >> I mean, that's the best way to do it. Ramseyolutions.com/agent.

And every real estate agent knows a good real estate attorney because they've worked with a bunch of them.

>> A lot of the title companies that do closings for them also have someone on staff that does foreclosure. >> Yeah. Every title I've done, every closing I've done has an attorney there on site. So, >> yeah, but they don't always, sometimes they just do closings. They don't always do foreclosures, but but they will know.

And I don't know how the market is set up today. Many years ago, when I bought foreclosures for a living, there were about five attorneys in Nashville that did probably 90% of the foreclosure business. >> Yeah. >> And the big mortgage companies were like, "Bring them a whole box. Here, do these 16." Right. And that kind of thing. And so it was um Dyke Tatum was

one of the guy's names. I haven't talked to Dyke in 25 years. I wonder what Dyke is doing. He's a wonderful guy, but I did a lot of deals with Dyke.

Uh I mean because I was buying the foreclosure and he was the attorney and I had to take him the money to stop the foreclosure. Right. >> And so um but those guys >> I wonder if there's less foreclosures now, so less people are kind of finding that. >> There's plenty.

There's plenty. Um they're just not um as profitable as they used to be.

that's how I would do it. I would find a real someone in the industry in the real estate industry that can guide you.

Maybe your insurance agent might also know someone, but probably more likely a good real estate agent. And the best way to find one of those is a Ramsey trusted agent. >> And don't don't take up like two hours of the agent's time. Just ask them for the name and the phone number. The name and the phone number and just jump on it and call them right then and get somebody and get her done.

Andrew is in Los Angeles. Hi, Andrew.

>> Wow. I'm talking to Dave Ramsey. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. And George Camel.

>> Can you believe it? >> Wow.

>> Um, so, so Dave, my aunt is in her late

60s and she was recently diagnosed with cancer. She's getting her stairs. Yeah.

She's uh getting her affairs in order and she has an estate worth around $3 million and she doesn't have any will or trust

and my family's asked me I'm the attorney in the family to help her think through options. So this is the situation. She has one child my cousin who's in his mid20s and she raised him as a single mother and they've had a difficult relationship for a long time.

He had a lot of serious behavioral issues growing up. He uh had vi issues

of violence against her. Uh he dropped out of college. My family worked very hard to get him into college. He dropped out his freshman year. Um he's uh struggled to hold jobs. He's losing touch with her. And at this point, he's eventually cut off all contact with her.

He does not know that she has cancer.

>> Not exactly a redeemable character.

Okay. >> So far, that's correct.

So, um, we know very little about him. And this is getting the fact she she's going to leave everything to him. That's not where the judgment call is. It's a non-negotiable for her.

>> Um, and we just know very little about

him. Uh, we're not going to be able to make this decision really in touch with him because there's a lot of volatility that comes from opening up that door.

What we know about him is that he recently got married. um he uh is

non-invited to the wedding. Um and we know that he's applying himself for a skilled trade um as as a and so um

nobody's family's opposing or uh him

getting this money, but the concern is how do we give it to him? Because I mean

I I know from listening to your program long enough that getting $3 million can

derail somebody's life. And you know, the best case scenario for us is for him to apply himself and have a stable, constructive, productive life rather than, you know, accidentally having everything go haywire because he suddenly has $3 million and no ability to deal with it. >> Yeah. Do you do estate planning work?

>> I don't do estate planning. Um I I have

general familiarity and I have Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean I would call one of your buddies in the legal, you know, an attorney that does estate planning work and try to get some suggestions. The only thing that pops into my mind um couple thoughts. Um the first one is a

trust with some wild almost bad bem

movie like uh traits to the trust like

you know uh he has to meet these guidelines to see the money otherwise at after so many years the money goes to a charity. Okay. And what would be the guidelines? That he's um not committed violence. Um that he's uh I don't know in church. I don't know. He's held down a job. Um he's

>> uh I don't know what do you what measure can she put in a trust that of character that a trustee could measure against you know an objective measurable thing that

would allow the money to be released.

Otherwise, the money is not to be released.

Because if she gives money to a bad character, it makes him a super bad character. >> Right. >> She is not helping him when she does that. She's harming him >> and the money will disappear instantly.

>> Yeah. So, you give money to a jerk, they

become a colossal jerk.

>> So, >> so you can get really detailed in that trust and decide, hey, at this age he gets this much. If he follows these guidelines, at this age he gets a little bit more. the full amount is released at this age. >> I personally would encourage her if she

wanted to listen to me not to give him the money.

>> You said it's a non-negotiable, but I really would not give it to him.

>> Is that right? >> Yeah, I really would. I I would give it to someone else or some charity, something that she cares about, someone that would use it well and appreciate it. And this young man's gonna has determined to find his own way. And I would let him.

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Aaron is with us in Baton Rouge. Hi Aaron, how are you?

Hi Dave. Hi George. I'm very happy to get the uh the idea dynamic duo.

>> Appreciate that. I will let John Deloney know.

>> Well, I I need some outside the box thinking here or maybe a gut a gut check. Um I don't know if I have a money

problem or a relationship vision problem with my wife.

Um, so we have a baby on the way. Yay.

>> We're both engineers. Yeah, we're very excited. Come September, October, depending on when it when it happens.

Um, our current expenses a month are about $5,500, but we want to go down to single income.

at least that my wife is getting really just overwhelmed with her work and being pregnant and the thought of having a baby with that is is too much. And I agree with her. She works at a chemical plant so those are crazy hours, crazy work, but with our mortgage and with everything it I see a money problem. We did a mock

budget that's about that uh little over

$4,000 a month, but I see us being in

the red by about two or 300 bucks a month if we went down to single income.

>> Did she see that? >> Buckling down. I'm sorry.

>> She saw that.

>> She wrote it.

>> Okay. >> She about Okay. So, obviously that doesn't work.

But what do we adjust?

>> 40 grand in savings. >> What? No. 40 grand in savings will be gone. You can't have a burn rate on your budget.

>> You need the opposite of a burn rate on your budget. And and so no, 40 grand

doesn't cover it. Um is it'll be gone in

about 30 years.

>> H >> I don't know. I mean, >> it was going to be a temporary.

>> Something has to adjust.

How temporary? And I'm >> what's going to happen a year after >> one or two years >> and then what happens?

>> She get she goes back into work and I'm making more money at my 9 to5. Not to mention I have a hobby job which I could bring in an extra1 to $2,000 a month but

that takes me out of the house and it's important to her that I'm here too.

>> Okay. There's no cake and eat it too. We

have to be grown-ups.

>> All right. And so we need a plan

that includes no red ink. I don't even

care what the plan is, but something's going to be uncomfortable.

Let's decide in advance what that is.

But no, I would not have a burn rate budget. So let's just decide, are we going to move and get a cheaper house?

>> You guys are engineers.

>> Are we going to sell the car?

>> Look at the process and go, what are all the variables we can change? What must be true? >> What levers can be flipped?

>> And there's a lot. You have expenses and then you have income. Do we need to downsize in house if this is a sacrifice we want to make long term? Because I would not assume that she's just going to automatically want to go back to work after a year. >> That's a dumb assumption. >> What if she loves being home and decides, "No, I don't want to go back to work ever." Well, now we have an immediate problem to solve. >> Yeah, that that there's a high probability that's what's coming. Um,

the thing I would think is I think the

easiest lever to flip is go from her unreasonable job to a some side hustle

for her that she controls the hours and

when the little cherub is asleep, she could work some from home and probably make enough to cover this with a side hustle. She's a freaking engineer.

>> She's a great one. >> Yeah. and but she's got an unreasonable job now from a stress hours and so forth

standpoint to be a new mommy. I'm not arguing that. You're not arguing that.

Okay. But that doesn't disqualify her from an in from creating an income completely in order to make largely make

her dream come true. or you know, you go work your side hustle and uh she just says, "Okay, the the cost of me getting to stay home and not work at all is that my husband's going to work some until his income comes up on the day job." Uh that's the cost or the cost of me staying home. When uh our children were tiny, we had some friends that uh I that

we both admired greatly. They had a big crazy beautiful home, both professionals. They had their first baby and they felt like no matter what that she had to be home with the child. It was a decision they made period and they sold everything and they moved to a house that was half the cost of the one they had before. And uh because they said what matters to us, what we value more than where we live is that that she

is at home. That was their value choice.

And and they were willing to sacrifice

to stick with that primary value. And I'm okay with you guys having that as your primary value, but then decide what has to go for that >> dep prioritized. >> Yeah, something's got to go.

>> Yes, sir. >> What does it look like to get your core income up by five or 10 grand?

>> Is it a different title? Is it something else? A different company? >> I'm I'm only three I'm 26. I'm only three years into being an engineer. So, I don't have the most leveraging power.

And I'm the job I'm at is a great great job for me to learn >> for the the 10-year engineer, you know.

>> Good. Good. So, what what is your side hustle? >> Second job of >> what's your side hustle? >> I uh I do live events, so concerts, weddings, festivals, and on some months I can pull an extra couple grand, but I'm working an extra 30 hours on the weekends.

So, I'm not home and I'm not present.

And she's made it appear apparent that she needs me. And for me, this is not an emergency because we can forecast it and plan it and emergency funds are for unexpected. But she told me that she is in an emergency right now. Just her

wellbeing. >> Bull crap.

>> Bull crap. Be a grownup. That's just

that's that's a guilt trip from hell.

No, that is not okay. That's not an okay

statement. I'm the emergency. Oh, good

lord. Seriously, be a grown-up lady.

You're a freaking engineer. If you want to stay home with your kid and that's what your calling is as a woman, I got no issue with that. A matter of fact, I support the decision. But we're not going to call you an emergency.

I get everything I want. No, you don't.

You get to be a grown-up like everybody else, and something's got to give. Bubba husband going to be working weekends.

You going to pick up a part-time job working from home as your side hustle to cover this difference or you guys are selling a stinking house and moving to a house you can afford with you staying at home. Make a decision, grown-up girl.

That's what has to happen. >> If the answer to what sacrifices are willing to make and the answer is none, then this can't happen. >> Yeah. The answer is I'm the emergency.

That's a fouryear-old child. No, I'm not

okay with that answer. And if she called me, I would be just as mean to her in person. So >> you're an equal opportunity. >> That's just, you know, no, I mean, because I got So my wife is this, she's

the opposite. She's hardcore too far the

opposite. >> Okay. So either way on the pendulum, right? But like, you know, we had a baby

in April. I filed bankruptcy in September.

When she had the baby, I went to the hospital. Obviously, I took her to the hospital. Rachel is delivered. I'm sitting there holding Rachel. I'd been there about 4 hours. And she says, "You

need to go to work.

>> You need to leave the hospital and go to work. >> Get out of here. I'm good now." >> Because the lights are going to get cut off if you don't. >> Wow. >> You know, I mean, that's the other end of the spectrum. It was actually an accurate statement. >> She understood the reality of the situation. >> Yeah. And it wasn't like, "I need you. I'm the emergency." Oh my. She would have strangled that. If I one of my daughters had said that, my wife would have strangled him.

>> I love that about Sharon. She tells it like it is. >> You need to go to work. Get up and leave the hospital. So, you know, so we had a guy apply for uh what is it? Paternity that the guy the guy doesn't want to work because they had a baby. And my wife's like, "Fire him." >> And I'm like, "Oh, no, no, you can't do that. It's illegal." >> She's like, "I don't care. He's a wuss.

Fire him." No, it's not because that it's cuz he's a wuss, Dave. That's why you need to get rid of this guy.

>> What kind of guy does that in her world?

It a hillbilly world. That does not compute. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, honey, it's illegal. You can't do that.

So, we're not going to be doing that.

But instead, we will listen patiently and then there'll be FMLA. But yeah. Oh my god.

So, >> I think we need to have Sharon taking some of these. When you're a grown-up, ladies and gentlemen, you don't get to declare yourself the emergency. Sorry.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host.

Amanda is in Houston. Hi, Amanda. How

are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm kind of nervous and I know this question is very ridiculous, but my husband wants to get a hair transplant, but I'm going to be laid off at the end of this month. Should we pull from our house savings account so that he can do that? It would be roughly 5 to

seven grand.

>> You're asking a bald guy and another guy with perfect hair >> about a transplant. >> I know. I was like, that is kind of funny. Was going to be on my need to see a picture. Well, we need Rachel here with the hair extensions to chime in on this. >> She just got hers cut off.

>> They just took the hair extensions out.

She's back to short hair. Girl, >> how long has he been wanting this transplant?

>> Well, he just really started getting insecure about his hair in the last maybe like 6 months to a year. Been

getting kind of like more and more noticeable. He's 28 >> and based on what what his dad's hairline looks like, it's not looking too good in the next >> He sees the writing on the wall. The pattern is male pattern baldness. Oh my god. >> I'd be pretty insecure about your household income right now over hair.

When are you going to be laid off? >> I know. And that's that's what I'm saying. I'm more worried about that. And he just kind of like he's the more he's more of the free spirit and it's like oh like you know like out numbers like

>> what does he make? >> He makes and again I know this is also going to sound ridiculous but he makes 120,000 with bonus.

>> Okay. And what do you make >> plus bonus? I right now I make about 83.

>> And what do you do?

>> I'm in supply chain. >> And Oh, wonderful. And you know you're getting laid off at the end of June.

>> Yes. >> And you've known that for how long?

>> About a month and a half now. And why don't you have a new job and networking?

And I've had only two interviews and probably applied to two to 300 jobs at

this point. Applying for jobs as you have found does not work.

>> Actually, actually connecting to someone inside the organization that knows someone that knows someone that knows you. Someone gets your name out of the stack. We get 15,000.

Listen. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We get 15,000 applications a year at Ramsey. We hire a few hundred people.

>> So, putting your name in the mix with 15,000 is useless. Don't even waste your

time.

So, you've got to find someone to connect with with the proximity principle and I'll send you that book and you should have a job by now because supply chain is a highly soughtafter

wonderful career field that you're in.

That's awesome. And how much is in the house savings fund?

>> 29,000. >> Okay. Do you guys have other savings?

>> We have a $49,000 emergency fund. That's

good. >> And then we have um like 401ks and all that, but we don't count that. >> And you guys are how old? You told me this. >> I'm 27 and he's 28.

>> Yeah, you did. Okay. Thank you. Um All right. Um it you're right. It is kind of a funny question, but it's also not ridiculous.

It's It's something he cares about, and you guys have done very well with money up until you losing your job. His timing for the question is really horrible. and his suggestion to not buy a home instead of instead I want some hair.

>> I I don't think I'm gonna make that trade.

>> But is it ir is it is it completely irresponsible to spend $5,000 on this for him? No. Not in your own situation.

So what I would do is say, okay, under these under these scenarios is where I would get the money. Uh both of you are now when you get your new job, you guys save up an extra five grand out of your budget and then he does it. And so it might be Christmas.

Merry Christmas, you know. >> Yeah. And that's and that's probably when we'd want to go get it done anyway.

>> Yeah. So just cash flow it with your new job and with as a budget item. But I I I

there's just something that everyone listening, including me and George and you, it just feels um weird

to do plastic surgery instead of a down payment on a house.

Yes. >> When you're in a stressful time on top of that with the layoff. >> Well, you don't Yeah. You're not going to buy a house right now anyway. You got to wait till you get your job. But but I don't think I'm going to use my down payment uh for Botox, a boob job, or get hair.

I'm just not I mean, it's my down payment money, you know? >> So, earmark separate money so that you're >> Those things are all okay. If somebody wants to do them, that's what you want to spend your money on. That's okay. I'm not mad about that. And I'm And I'm not making any ball jokes. I'm the ball guy.

I can't do that. That's completely illegal. It's against federal law. >> And Dave can afford a hair transplant.

He has chosen not to on his own valition.

Yeah, >> it's a good look. >> I do remember where he is. I'm laughing to myself. I don't know if I should tell this story or not. So, what happens is and I bet you your husband the same way.

I started losing my hair first in the back.

Is that is that is that where he's going thin in the back?

>> No, he's got a he's got a widow's a really hard widow's peak and he's losing it all in the front. >> Right in the front. Okay. cuz I was losing mine like back here, you know, in in the back.

And so I didn't know it >> and no one told you. >> Well, that's the problem. So I go play this how many thousands of years ago. I go play raetball and I got in the shower and I got out and I got my my haird dryer out and my buddy starts laughing at me.

>> And this is when I realized I was bald.

I knew it was getting thin, but I never thought anything about it. But him making fun of me and I actually know his name. I could say it right now and I won't. But he, this guy, he completely shamed me in the locker room with my hair dryer. Last time I ever used a hairdryer in my life, except except to dry some clothing one time. But yeah.

Oh, too funny. No. Anyway, yeah, I just embraced it and went on. Of course, I was too broke to do anything about it. You guys aren't. >> Well, what's I would not use my down payment money. I would do it if it's something that means something to him, but I would do it as a budget item after you get back to work. What do you think, George? >> Yeah, I agree with that. The stipulation would be you're working again and we save up different money outside of this down payment fund or emergency fund.

>> Yeah. I just then you feel good.

>> I would feel

shallow to use my

down payment money for a home for my family for my own cosmetic benefit.

>> Yes, I would feel shallow.

>> It's not like a >> And I think I might even call you shallow if you did that.

>> So, um >> just wear a hat for 6 months.

That does the trick, too. >> I'd still do that. >> But I know where this is coming from, Dave. I've seen this. I bet he's being served up all these videos on Instagram and Tik Tok of these trips.

>> Once you enter in something, you get in the algorithm, then you get get sucked into the vortex. >> But all these influencers are going to Turkey and getting their hair transplants. And so that that's 100%. If

we had her on the line, she'd say, "Yep, it's he's going to Turkey.

>> It's a special thing." Turkey.

>> Yep. Specific to Turkey. The average household income in Turkey is $5,800.

I'm going there to spend $5,000 on my

hair. >> I think it's not approved in America or something. I don't know all the details, but I think that's why people don't >> get Turkish hair. >> Yep. It's thicker.

>> I don't know how they do it. Dave, >> this is too much. George, what you know about because I'm not on social media and you are. Blow my mind.

>> I don't know how it showed up in my feed either, Dave. >> Well, you got perfect hair, so they were shopping. I was just intrigued.

>> They were shopping. They wanted They wanted to look like you.

>> I do like the before and after. You see those billboards and you're like, "That's clearly photoshopped." >> Mine's gotten so thin. I used to for a while there. I kind of had that late Shan Connory version for a little while going, but not even that anymore. It's so thin. >> You know, can I say you look younger than you did 25 years ago >> with the comb over? Yeah. The little comb over thing. Didn't didn't And the Mr. Magcoo glasses.

>> They they didn't do it for me. Yeah.

>> I miss that era of Dave.

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I don't think I've ever gotten a hair replacement call before >> really. >> I might have >> 35 years. >> I don't remember getting one.

Anything's possible, but it's not a frequently brought up subject.

>> It's the first one I've heard.

>> I'm sure of that. Hey guys, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website at ramseyolutions.com. You can use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free

AI tool that is built and trained only

on proven Ramsey principles. And if you don't know how AI works, it can only

pull its answers from the data set you give it. And the only answers we gave it, the only data set we gave it was us on the air, our books, our articles. So there's no crap from Tik Tok or Reddit

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It's a free AI tool at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or YouTube. Lori is in Salt Lake City. Hi Lori. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi George. I'm fantastic.

>> Good. What's up?

>> Um well I've been a stay-at-home mom for 32 years and my youngest just got married a few years ago and moved out.

So, we're empty nesters and now my husband thinks it's the perfect time for me to go to work and try and contribute something to our finances, but I honestly I just don't want to. And I have a lot of reasons why I don't want to, but I just don't want to. And I want to know if I'm okay in that opinion.

>> Do do does the family need the money?

>> No, I don't feel that we do. Our home is paid off. Um, we don't want for anything

from paycheck to paycheck.

>> You have money going into retirement.

>> Um, yeah. My husband puts uh about 35%

of his check in retirement. He currently has about 680,000 in retirement and he's

will have a little over a million when he retires in eight years. >> Yeah. And what's your home worth? What's your home worth?

>> Our home in our our acreage is about 560,000.

We paid it off last year. We have no >> So you're worth a million to a million and a half dollars >> and he makes what a year?

>> 118.

>> Okay.

What is it that you're unable to do that the income you earn he thinks is worth it? The

family is unable to do X because you don't work and he wants you to go.

>> Yeah. We're not unable to do anything.

We go on cruises. We

eat out. We buy things when we need

them. We don't We're not missing

anything. I think it's more of a finally I can contribute money where he has paid our way all these years, I guess, financially, but I've raised our four kids and even

though they're grown and now they're out of the house, they still live in the same city. And I would like to still be available for the Hey, Mom.

No, we don't support any of our kids.

>> Okay. So, we would call you a successful mother.

>> I think I did a good job. >> Yeah, they they launched they launched and they're not on the dole. That's unusual in America. You're in the top 10% of motherhood.

>> They're not in your basement or on your payroll. That's a win. >> Yeah. I think you've already earned your your retirement. Um so, have you point blank asked him, "What problem does this solve for me to go back to work?" I have

I have what?

>> Well, he goes it's just extra money

on the money. >> That doesn't solve a problem.

>> So, is it that he's worried you're not going to have purpose and get stir crazy and do retail therapy? Like, what is he actually concerned about?

I think he's just hyperfixated on

now I have the ability to to add to the

income of this family. He he tells me that no amount of money will ever be enough in retirement and Iion

there's a fear behind all we ever could spend. >> Yeah. There's a lack of contentment.

Okay. >> He is worried that you guys won't be okay. >> Okay. There's two >> I I don't know how to solve this for you guys as a couple and you may end up having to sit down with someone. But there's two issues that are at the core of this and they're both spiritual.

Okay, spiritual issue number one is contentment and that's a spiritual decision. When is enough enough? And he can't get there.

And um so he he's never going to gain

from hitting his money goals any kind of peace because he can't cuz he because he makes statements like and believes things like uh there's no never enough for retirement. And so that's a fear-based thing. You guys are in good shape. You're millionaires and you started from nothing. Congratulations.

Uh you're baby steps millionaires. You follow the stuff. You did it. So way to go. That's problem number one. And I can't fix that for someone else. I can just point it out and then let them decide if they want to work on it or not. But uh John Deloney always says

around here on on issues in your life that are giving you angst. You have to solve for peace. And in this case, solving for peace is sitting down at the foot of Jesus and saying, "All right, Lord, help me find peace

about this money stuff because I the way

I was brought up, my work ethic, something is driving me because this

fear-based stuff is driving me and I can't find contentment." And so I know where I know where to direct him to, but I can't do it for him. Then the second thing, the second thing and this is even more problematic for me and uh because

it's personal.

My wife uh left the workplace when my oldest daughter was born. Our first child was born. She's been at home the entire time and um she did not go back

to work when the youngest child left home either, which is where you guys are. We were multi-millionaires by then.

Um, and um,

uh, uh, you know, we had plenty of money. You've got plenty of money. She did not need to go back to work. And frankly, I did not want her to because I enjoy her being

available if I want to go do something.

and she's not tied down by a boss, you know, and so uh and that's, you know, if I if I want her to go with me when I'm going to do an event in New York or we're flying up to New York City to do something, she can go with me. I can be on Fox and we can go to a play and go out to eat, but she can't do that if she's got a boss, right? And so I didn't I didn't want her to. I wanted to So that's selfish on my part.

But here's the core thing that I want to address that's bothering me and it because it's I've had a hard time convincing my wife of this and I need to convince your husband of this.

Dave Ramsey is a major national brand

and has 35 plus years of successful

radio career contiguous without ever

leaving the air.

Eight New York Times bestselling eight number one bestselling books. um a thousand team members and hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue is because my wife was a successful mom.

If I had to go home and deal with a bunch of crap every day, I couldn't have gotten the things done that I've gotten done down here at the office. If I was having to deal with drama and I was having to deal with neediness and I was having to deal with high maintenance and you were none of those. So, you performed a very professional,

high-end, welldone job of mother and

home economist. And he needs to give you credit for that. I'm giving my wife credit for it. And it's not false credit. I promise you. I've seen people I've seen men and women who were der their their potential in the marketplace was derailed by a highmaintenance spouse.

Mine was quite the opposite. and your husband's was quite the opposite.

Darling, you are the reason that you guys have a million dollars. Not his pity little $118,000 job. You are the

reason because your children haven't milked you completely dry like a whole bunch of entitled millennial brats have done to their parents cuz you raised good kids. You raised people of character. You are the reason that the wealth is there. you've already earned more than he has. You just didn't get economic credit for it in the way our system is set up. So, I'm kind of pissed off at him right now.

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Renee is in Sacramento. Hi Renee, how are you? Hi, good afternoon.

>> Afternoon. What's up?

>> I am needing to be pointed in a

direction. Um, my mother passed away in

2024 and my sister and I have inherited her

commercial properties.

Um, and they have tenants in them currently. So, there is rental income coming into the trust. The properties are going to be deated over to my sister and I and I was told that we will likely

need to establish an LLC for the rental

income to flow into and then expenses to

be paid out of. The caveat is is that my

sister has a history of stealing half of

756,000

and not paying her share of our father's

income and estate taxes timely. So that

led to me being threatened with garnishment from the IRS because I was the only one gainfully employed.

How how many how many property how many properties are involved in this transaction and what are they worth?

>> One was appraised at 4.2 million and one

was appraised at 2.4 million.

>> Mhm.

Okay.

Um >> I don't want to be on a bank account with someone who has stolen money from me. >> I don't blame you. Why don't why don't we just sell both properties and you guys go on your way.

>> Um that was the original plan.

>> Um however, the there's a there is

someone interested in purchasing the lesser valued property, but he can't purchase it right now. So, he wants to lease it for 5 years.

>> Well, then he's not your buyer. Why don't you just get somebody else to buy it?

Um, unfortunately the decision is not up to me. My mom left all decisions to be made by a trustee.

>> So, and and I am a lesser beneficiary.

My sister's 60%, I'm 40%.

>> Mhm. >> So, I don't really have a say.

>> Is the trustee aware of her behavior?

>> He is. And personally, I think it's a conflict of interest, but he is also my

sister's trustee.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Um, well, you need legal count you

need legal counsel to force the trustee

to sell the to liquidate the properties because you don't need to be >> in any kind of a deal with her. Period.

>> Yes. Okay. because they and so I don't care what we facilitate here. Um I mean

you could sell the $4 million one and

you take uh 3 million and she takes the

other property in a million.

It's not 50/50 but yeah whatever whatever 6040 works out.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So um but I mean you could sell that property and take your share out of that. >> It's about 1.68 million. See, so there's 6 million and you have 40%. So 2.4 is

yours, right?

>> Right. >> And the other propert the little property's worth what?

>> 2.4. >> Oh, why don't you just take that and give her the other one?

>> Um, I offered to do that and the trustee

declined. >> Why?

Um because the person who is in the process of purchasing it um he really

wants to give this person the opport the chance of the opportunity of owning that property. >> Why? Who is this person?

>> Um this person was a longtime manager

for my parents' business.

>> Is the business operating in that property?

um our family business

um ceased in March of 2024.

>> Okay. >> There is another retail business in there now and he is managing that business. >> I think you and your attorney need to sit down with the trustee in person and explain to them that we're not going to accept a process by which I end up in business

with my sister. If you continue to push

that agenda, we're going to sue you.

>> Okay. >> I think that's you and your attorney need to sit down with your trustee and explain that because the trustes job, their fiduciary responsibility is not for someone that's not a member of the trust to do good for the family general

manager. That's not his job. He's

violating his fiduciary responsibility.

fiduciary responsibilities to the beneficiaries of the trust which is you and your sister. So what benefits the two of you and when you explain to him that you are not going to accept being pushed into business with your sister that we are going to break this up. Um

you know as a matter of fact there's nothing that keeps him from deeding the 2.4 to you and the four to your sister if and then you deal with the guy.

You don't have to sell the 2.4. You could become the owner of it and you're waiting on the other guy to take five years to buy you out.

>> You could do that.

>> We We could um and I

uh However, my sister is refusing. My

sister wants to make sure that I end up with as little as possible.

>> Honey, that's not up to your sister.

Your sister doesn't have a say in this.

>> I I understand. Um, but because she's the bigger beneficiary, the trustee has explained it to me that if he doesn't follow her wishes as the majority beneficiary, >> he doesn't follow your wishes, he's going to get sued.

>> Okay. >> He needs to understand that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. you it's time for you to take the gloves off and punch some people on the nose here because they these people are just um you know you don't have to be mean about it but you just got to be real tough and just like guys I am let's

start with a baseline here she's a crook and I'm not going to be in business with her so we're not forming an LLC and we're not going to own and operate property together that's not an option if you continue to push that agenda I'm going to sue all of you and we're going to be in court and I'm going to screw up your lives for the next five years and I'm going to have to spend 100,000 bucks in legal fees, but I'm going to do it. Okay? Or we can work

out something where I get my share of the property and go on my merry way.

It's a pretty obvious thing that the 2.4 mathematically lines up with that and she can have the four and I'll have the two and Mr. Trustee, God help you,

you're out of business. You got nothing to do now. It's actually a good deal for them cuz she's legally owed 2.64 out of her share and she's going to take on the 2.4 property. So I >> I would take a loss to get rid of this barrel of fish hooks.

Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, but they're going to gain 240 grand just by going through with this by giving her this other property. So it sounds like it's just vengeance >> and then I may or may not deal with this general manager from the former business and all this stuff.

You don't have to sell it and you want

to work with a guy. That'd be an added thing to make the deal work, right? But if you don't want to work with a guy, you don't even have to do that. So, yeah, I think you need an attorney that has a really um titanium backbone

uh that walks in there and just smiles and says, "Uh, we're going to dance.

Do you want to dance? We don't have to dance, but if you continue to play the music, we're going to dance." and you just kind of have to have these discussions and take all their mythology and their feelings off the table. Uh because I'm threatening you. That's what I, you know, that's where that's where it needs to come down to. I'm coming after you. And uh because otherwise

you're going to end up getting screwed again some more. And you're right. Um

leopards don't change their spots. LLC's

don't protect you from people who are

irresponsible and crooked. Uh it's just a more

fabulous, sophisticated way to get screwed. >> If you can't change people, don't do business with them. >> Yeah. Don't just don't stay, you know, if you know somebody, you know, crocodiles bite, so don't put your hand in their mouth. Hello. It's not hard.

Heat.

Heat.

Heat.

Heat.

Laura is in New York City. Hi Laura, how are you?

>> Very good. Thank you Dave and friends for talking with me.

>> Sure. What's up?

I'm a 58-year-old uh divorced woman with

a $1 and a4 million dollar life insurance policy, whole life insurance policy that I have let lapse.

I can reinstate it.

It would be a hardship and the the $8,000 premiums going forward still

would be a hardship. I guess my question is I'm on the verge of cancelling it and

I will be hit with a $50,000

tax bill. Of course, I understand.

>> Um what should I do?

>> Um the um my accountant confirmed it

>> and the um the insurance guy who sold me

the policy 25 years ago also said,

>> "Well, that I don't trust him cuz he sold you crap." But the um

>> so um the only way you have a taxable

gain on a cash value policy

is if your withdrawal amount uh exceeds

the amount you put into the policy throughout the lifetime of the policy.

Every dollar you put into it forms the basis.

I cannot believe I have that >> you've had a $250,000 gain on this on this policy. I don't believe it.

I have some figures.

>> So what is the cash value and how much did you pay in premiums?

>> Okay, the cash value is 361K

of the gains is uh 169.

So I guess that math we put in >> the gains um >> 192. >> How much did you pay in premiums though?

uh what we put in I I have the well I I

it was $8,000 a year for about 20 25 years. That math should be close to 192

190. >> Yeah. 200 grand. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so that gives you the 169 gain.

>> All right. >> Yes. >> Um

I >> I'm leaning towards cashing it in.

>> Yeah, I'm gonna cash it in. I'm just I got to tell you that I've been doing this for almost 40 years and I've seen like >> four policies that actually had a gain.

>> I mean I I I'm I'm a gasast that you

actually have a gain >> and so I'm I'm still stuck there.

>> But I'm glad you have a gain.

>> He said it did quite well.

>> Yeah, he said it did quite well, I guess. >> Um well, no, not really. I mean, >> maybe compared to money in the M had put in $200,000 into a mutual fund, you probably have about eight times more money, so it didn't do quite well.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> But um >> Okay. It did do quite well compared to the other crappy sales. Yeah.

>> Um >> Okay. >> Wow. >> So, you need to pay the 8K to reinstate it before you can cash it out >> and keep paying it forever. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Pay it. I I have to pay the eight grand to to reinstate it. And then I think in August is is the next eight grand. And I I borrow and

>> I I I I think I I I'm coming to the conclusion that the figures you have I think are accurate even though it's very very rare. Um, but uh I want to triple

check the basis numbers and the actual

gain because if they write you a check, the cash surrender value at the time you

cancel the policy is 361. Is that what

you're telling me?

They're going to send you a $361,000 check.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Then if if if 200 is

the basis, then you have 160 gain and yeah, taxes might be approaching 50 grand depending on your situation on the 160 gain. That's possible. But of course, you're going to have 361,000 in your pocket to pay 50. You're going to net. But I I think you can take that if

you live a few years and invest that money and um if you put it in a low

turnover mutual fund, you would have a lot more money and you would have a lot

less taxes >> on a lot more money if you take that even after the $50,000 hit. So, I'm 100% sure I'm doing it anyway, >> but I do want to triple check the numbers, okay?

>> Because here's the thing. Sometimes these whole life companies because they're so freaking scammy that they

will give you a cash value number that's

different than the cash surrender value number.

>> Okay. Oh, so I should double double check. >> Yeah. So, if you don't get a $361,000

check that you can cash and put that number into your bank account, then these numbers are wrong. Okay.

Okay. If if >> Okay. So, you're saying 360?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, you said 361 is your cash value number that you're going to get if you cancel out. >> Yes. >> Okay. If that's true, then these numbers then this cash is then you got a $50,000 tax bill based on the numbers you gave me. I don't disagree and I would do it anyway and I would cash it out and I would take the remaining $310,000 and after taxes and I would invest that well and I would be glad to be rid of these people. But I'm still afraid that

they're going to come back and say, "Well, that's your cash value number, but your cash surrender number that

we're actually going to send you a check for isn't that much." >> Yeah, >> I'm afraid. But I hope I'm wrong. I hope you have to pay taxes because you get

361,000. That would be a better deal for you. >> Yeah. This this final receipt of this tax bill is just one final nail in the coffin. >> Let's recap here. All right. Number one, this is a very rare situation.

Number two, when you hear people say these dumb things on TikTok in particular, it's come back again that, oh, well, cash value is tax-free investing.

Did you guys hear taxree? I didn't hear taxree. Did you hear tax? I didn't hear taxree. >> A lot of taxes there. >> Did you hear tax free? I heard lots of taxes, >> big taxes. >> Like, oh, you can borrow against it.

It's amazing. >> That's what the wealthy people do. >> Yeah. Well, wealthy people were sitting in New York City calling me saying, "I don't want to do this anymore." >> I was going to calculate to see if she had just invested that instead of putting in this policy what it could be.

>> A year, 666 a month for 25 years,

starting from zero. You're talking on the low end 800 grand on the You're talking a million bucks at 11% return.

So, she missed out on um $640,000

>> because this is that bad a product.

>> That's big ouchie. So, when he said, >> but when they say there's no taxes, >> just remember this call.

>> Okay. >> The only way there's no taxes is if you don't make any money.

>> That's true. >> That's the way there's no taxes or if you borrow money because borrowed money is not taxable. Well, you don't get taxed if you go to the bank and borrow $100,000. You don't have to count that as income.

It's borrowed money. And if you borrow your own money, even because you borrow cash, borrow against your own cash value, which is borrowing your own money, paying them interest to borrow your own money, >> which makes sense. >> And you don't have taxes, but you did pay interest. And you do look kind of stupid.

>> But then you use after tax money to pay it back.

>> Oh, there's that. Which is kind of like paying taxes.

>> Ding, ding, the $8,000 thing, but you could have had a million. Instead, you got 361.

And oh, by the way, if that was in a good mutual fund, it'd be taxed at uh capital gains rate, not ordinary income.

This is taxed at ordinary income.

These people should be ashamed of

themselves that sell this stuff.

>> $8,000 a year for 25 years. That's some

brutal math. >> Should have been a million and it's 361.

So, can you Well, our calculator, it doesn't run backwards and allow you to calculate the rate of return she got. I think it's about a 3% rate of return.

>> Oh, I could probably calculate that.

>> Can you put in the end number? >> 3% is about 300 grand. So, 3 and 12 is

318. >> Pretty close. Look at me. >> We're at about It's closer to >> three and a half%. She made three and a half% on her money. >> About 4.3 >> for a 25-y year investment. She made three and a half% on her money. So, anyone that's in the insurance business that wants to sell you an investment, tell them to stick to insurance because their investments suck. Complex does not mean better. It

just means a bigger commission for the person selling. >> She made 3 and 12% on her money.

>> I want to know how rich the guy is that sold it to her. Go look at the house he's living in. You paid for it.

Wow.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Aaron is

with us in Canada. Hi Erin. How are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Um I'm calling because my late boyfriend

died about four years ago and with his

family was very supportive. Um and I wound up inheriting all of his asset.

And since then, I have maintained his tradition of gifting each of his nieces and nephews a cash fund for educational experiences every year. But I've recently gotten engaged and my new fiance does not think it is appropriate for me to continue doing this and I feel

stuck with um what is the best way to

move forward. >> How did you end up uh inheriting the assets? Where did he have a will?

>> So he did not have a will. Um I was listed as his beneficiary on his life insurance but uh we were together and

living we were together about eight years. So we did qualify as common law partners.

>> And so the courts the courts awarded you the assets then? >> The courts awarded me the assets and I essentially um the last four years of our relationship I had been in school and he'd really been financially supporting both of us. >> Yeah. So I had gone to his parents and I >> So it was the whole situation was treated as if you were married.

>> Yes. Okay. >> Um but I had gone to his family and I said I don't feel entitled to all of this. So let's figure out how to share it between siblings and and his parents.

And they had said um no we feel very strongly that Cameron would want you to have all of it and we're fine and you keep it. >> Okay. And how much how much is all of this?

>> Uh between the life insurance and the house and his savings and pension payout, it wound up being about 1.6 million, a little less.

>> Okay. And how much do you gift to the children?

>> It's $1,000 a year. Um and there are

three nieces and nephews, but there's a fourth on the way. And my intention, you

know, right after Cameron had died was he he used to give them 300 a year, but I decided I'm going to do a thousand a year um until they're 18 and then, you

know, a nice college graduation gift.

And then, you know, over 18 years then with four, it will come up to about $80,000 total.

>> Okay. So, you inherited a bunch of money, a over a million dollars

>> as a common law wife from your ex,

and you were in in a relationship with him for eight years. And so, his family

is still, you know, you're still

emotionally attached to his family, which is logical.

If we just pretend, let's just pretend, let's just change the numbers, change the scenario very slightly and say you were a widow that you were married.

>> Mhm. >> Okay, let's just change the discussion and say that cuz that's how the law is treating this. Okay. And how his family

treated it for that matter. And you said, okay, you know, my husband who passed away eight years ago has three

kids, three ne nieces and nephews. It meant a lot. He used to give him $300. I give him a,000. So, it's $3,000 or 4,000

with the new baby on the way a year out of 1.6 million.

>> Exactly. >> Whoopee. Who cares? >> The interest in the savings. >> Why is this inappropriate?

>> So, he So, my new fiance um he

comes from a very large family. He is

one of seven kids and he feels that it's not appropriate for me to prioritize my

late partner's family over his. So he thinks it is most appropriate for me to stop gifting this money or to gift an

even amount to his nieces.

>> I don't think it's about fairness. I don't think I think he doesn't like the emotional attachment.

If this was a boyfriend you broke up with, I would probably agree with him.

>> Mhm. >> But he died.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. >> How old is your fiance?

>> 32. >> It's kind of an immature approach.

I mean, why why can you not just stand back and say this lady comes >> this lady in that I'm dating that I'm going to marry is comes with she's a package and a package includes her past

just like my package includes my past

and her past includes um 4,000 out of

1.6 million which is irrelevant.

>> Yeah. >> It's a it's buying a you're buying a biscuit. I mean, it's not even it's not even a it's not like you're giving a high percentage or something. If you were giving them a h 100,000 a year or something, I might go, "Whoa, wait a minute." But I mean, it's an irrelevant amount of money. And >> yeah, it's just meant to be summer camp, you know, and dance classes. Um, but I think like he's met my late partner's

family and and he knows I see them every summer and he's always been very supportive, but I think he comes from a family that does not $1,000 is is realistically kind of a drop in the bucket to my late partner's family, but that amount for his nieces and nephews would be more substantial.

>> That's irrelevant.

>> Mhm.

For him to ask you to do that is inappropriate.

>> Okay, >> that's what's inappropriate.

Not you giving the other kids money. For him to dare to feel entitled for his

family because his family's poor

>> that they should be getting some of your money.

That's inappropriate.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I I the way you've presented this, maybe we left something out or maybe we didn't understand something, but the way you presented this does not leave your fiance in a very good light.

>> Yeah, I think we need to grow here and get some maturity and go, okay, this money was meant for this. She's carrying out the wishes and tradition over here.

This is not clinging to some past. You

clearly love him. He loves you.

>> You know, even if it was just weird or awkward, it's not that much money. It's

not a $100,000. >> I'm not going to pick a fight with my wife over this, you know. I'm I'm I mean, there there's a few things I might pick a fight, you know, over money. Yeah. And it might be over a small amount, but this is

>> and then the argument is a a false

narrative that somehow his family >> is entitled to >> is they're not even in this discussion.

>> The 1.6 million is hers. It's not his families.

Um, >> I would look at that as a blessing. Like what a legacy this guy left to my now fiance.

>> Yeah. >> And how it set her up. >> And you know, you're going to be marrying a millionaire.

>> Exactly.

So, I'm not going to focus on this little speck over here.

>> See, him wanting him being concerned about his extended family, not he didn't want it for himself. He wasn't being selfish in that regard. Is the very reason I talk about having a prenup

>> in situations like >> in situations where there's extreme difference in net worth like she's got a million six she needs a prenup so that his family doesn't think or he doesn't think his family >> they don't come after her. >> Exactly. >> Saying well they deserve a pile of money too. >> Yeah. Sorry. We have a prenup. Yeah.

Let's go ahead and state outside. Go ahead and state up front. Your family gets nada nothing. And if you leave, you

get nothing. This is the prenup, >> you know. So, um, you know, or if I kick you out, you get nothing, you know. So, yeah, that because of it exposes the

crazy weirdness. Yeah. The actual inappropriate one is him. That's the strange part of the call. Hm.

Interesting.

Hey,

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

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Might not be in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Adam in Minnesota. I have no consumer debt.

$125,000 cash in savings and a paid off home.

Friends have advised me that I need to take out loans and buy real estate in order to have deductibles to reduce my future tax exposure. Is that a wise reason to get into real estate investing?

I almost made it through without laughing. No, that is not a wise reason to get into real estate investing for the deductibles.

>> Deductions. >> Oh gosh, these the old deductibles.

>> Yeah. So, you want to explain why?

>> Well, I'm worried your friends have watched too much Tik Tok. Uh, I don't know what you're talking about with future tax exposure. I mean, you have no debt, you have a paid off home, and so if they're telling you to try to have more write offs essentially to lower your tax bill, that's a really stupid reason to go into a bunch of debt and leverage yourself. >> Yeah. So, there's two ways that real estate can create a tax deduction. One is you can depreciate it.

uh the capital asset portion of it, not the dirt, but the improvements can be depreciated. Um, and that just lowers

your basis and you get taxed later when you sell the investment property, but you you you avoid taxes on that. That's

good. Nothing wrong with that. I do that. Um, the other way is to do what

your friends are suggesting, which is to take out a loan for the write- off. Now,

the way a loan works for a write- off is if you pay out in a year $20,000 in

interest, you can deduct that interest

on a rental property as a business

expense. So, it lowers your taxable

income is what a tax deduction does. It lowers your taxable income by $20,000,

which means you do not pay taxes on $20,000 of your income because you gave the $20,000 to the bank. Now, let's net

that out, though. A $20,000 tax deduction lowers your income. Let's say you made $100,000. So, now you're only going to be taxed on 80,000.

So, what it actually saves you is not

$20,000. It actually saves you the taxes

on $20,000.

So if you're in a 25% tax bracket, as an

example, make the math easy. 25% of 20,000 is $5,000. So a $20,000 tax

deduction saves you $5,000 in taxes.

Now, here's the problem.

You gave the bank $20,000

>> to keep from giving the government $5,000.

So we literally we stepped over a dollar to pick up a quarter. >> Exactly. So you don't give the bank $20,000 to keep from giving the government five. >> And that's not factoring in all the risk. >> That's what your friends are doing.

>> We haven't even talked about the leverage, the loan, >> the risk, >> the tenants, are they paying? Is it more than the mortgage? There's a whole lot of other variables here. Now, there's simply that you're going to trade 20,000 for 5,000 >> in order to do what your friends are suggesting. So, moral of the story is

don't take financial advice from your broke friends. They're stupid.

That's where this comes from. >> That's it. Jaden is in Miami. Hi, Jaden.

How are you? >> How you guys doing? I'm doing well. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Yeah. So, I have a question about uh acquiring a business and I just want to know if it's a good idea to do it.

>> Okay. >> Um >> so, it's a it's a barber shop and I'm currently a barber and I just want to know if it's a good idea to get one. It's an established barber shop, correct? >> Okay. And um what what does it profit?

What's the net profit on the business?

>> Um right now monthly it's about there's nine employees and they pay each a,000.

So, it's around like 9,000 >> and there's four chairs that are empty.

>> Mhm. So, there's space to put in 13 people full. >> Yeah. But there's not there now. So, and they're wanting I assume they're wanting you to buy this business. Correct.

>> Yes. Correct. Correct. I'm going >> What are they asking for it?

>> Uh 55 or 60? 50. I'm I'm leaning more towards 55. And he's coming down towards that number. >> $55,000.

>> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, it's bringing in a gross revenue of $9,000 a month, correct?

>> Yes, sir. >> It's 108 per year, >> right? And so what is the profit on that? I mean, I assume you have rent.

>> Yeah, the rent right now with everything included, utilities at the end of it, it's 4,000.

>> So I'll be profiting around 5,000 to say if it's a bit lower. If I add in more things like utilities and other things that I'll buy for the barber shop, which would be another >> I want to talk about him that's operating it today.

>> Yeah. >> His expenses are rent.

>> 9,000 minus rent is 5,000, right? What

other that include that that includes his utilities and stuff. What other expenses does he have?

>> Well, he has the the Well, I guess he told me the Wi-Fi, which the cable and stuff, he does buy waters, like uh little waters or snacks for the vending machine there. So, because the the rent itself is 3500.

>> Mhm.

>> But I put in an extra thousand. So, if it would make 40, let's say 4,500 total

with including buying the waters, buying extra snacks for the vending machines and keeping everything in order. >> Mhm.

Okay. Which would mean that he's got a profit of about 55 or 60,000 a year.

Does that sound right? >> Yeah. Yeah, it does.

>> And he only wants 55 or 60 for the whole thing. >> Yeah. I just I was just wondering because I do have some some debts at the moment and I just was wondering if it would be a good idea because I I currently am a barber right now myself.

How much do you make on your own?

>> I make around like 6,000 a month.

>> Mhm. Good for you. Okay. Are you one of

the chairs?

>> Um well, right at my at that barber shop. I'm not currently at that barber shop. I'm at a different location. >> Okay. >> So, I would be buying it from him.

>> Is he one of the barbers there?

>> No, he he is not one of the barbers there. Right now, since he's he's moving out the country, so he's trying to sell it. >> And right now, he has one of the barbers. Well, there's 10 in there, but one of them doesn't pay rent because he's the one managing.

>> Okay.

>> How much debt do you have? >> Pay rent. >> I have around uh 24,000 and that's

including I'm still in school. That's the student loans and stuff.

>> What are you studying in school?

>> Um finance.

>> What are you going to do with your life?

>> Well, uh I want to stay within the barber industry. That's why I want to kind of acquire this barber shop because eventually I do want to segue into the finance industry.

>> But you would just do like he did. Then you be an absentee owner.

>> Correct.

>> How much school do you have left?

>> Uh I have about a year and a half left.

>> Mhm.

>> When is he moving out of the country?

When does this deal need to be done?

>> Oh, no. He he he already is moved out.

That's the thing. I I've I

let me tell you what's running through my mind. The deal is not a bad deal.

>> Number one, you don't have $55,000 cash.

That makes the deal difficult. We'd have to figure out a weird way to structure it. We could probably do that here for a minute. Okay. >> Um but here's the um but but it might be

a bad deal for you even though the deal is not a bad deal.

And it might be a bad deal for you because it might cause you to take your eye off the ball of what winning really looks like. So 5 years from today, what winning really looks like as you described it to me is you graduate and you have a career in finance >> and um you might invest in a barber shop at that time, but your intention is not to be your primary income and career is

not to be the owner or operator or hair

cutting guy in the barber shop.

>> Correct. >> You really don't have any intention to do anything with this. this just came upon you because you're doing this right now as a side hustle to get through school. >> Well, I would at first I thought that but barbering is like a passion of mine but so is finance.

But it's just that >> but that's my point. See that that's exactly the thing.

So, I'm afraid it's a distraction, even though it's not really a bad deal. If you wanted to do the deal the way you could structure it would be I'll give you 100% of the net profit for one year

and I and I will operate a chair and I get to keep what I make on my chair and 100% of the net profit will do the books. I'll give you that for one year and then the barberh shop is mine. And that way you don't have to come out of any cash and doesn't affect your get out of debt plan. But I'm afraid it's going to distract you.

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Lisa is with us in Tennessee. Hi, Lisa.

How are you? >> Oh, I'm good Dave, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

>> Um, I have a dilemma here. I'm wondering

if I should give up my late husband's

pension from the fire department to get remarried. Um, I'm worried about financial security if it doesn't work out.

>> Okay. Um, so, uh, how old are you?

>> We're both 69.

>> Okay. And >> and I make about 8 to 900 more a month than he does. My income is >> So what do you make? Oh, not counting not counting the pension. What do you make?

>> Social Security, which is $1,000.69.

That's it. >> So So you you you haven't worked. You've been living off the pension.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> How long's he been gone?

>> Two and a half years. >> I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> How long you been dating?

>> Uh about a year.

and it's starting to get more serious on my end. He's all he's been pretty serious, but um >> what does he make?

>> He makes about

4,800 a month. He has like 3,300 from

social security, 1,500 from his retirement. But he has a truck payment

and he owes about 100 grand on his house. I'm debtree. I own my house, my

car. I don't have any credit card bills.

I've got money in the bank. I got IRA, a mutual fund.

How much money in the bank? How how much IRA and mutual fund?

>> Well, not a whole lot. I've got about 40,000 in savings in the bank and

129,000 in an IRA and about 30,000 in a

mutual fund. >> Okay. How much how much is the pension?

The gross is 54, but the net I take home 4,600. >> Wow. >> Plus social security.

>> Huge.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I I I see your pause. I agree with

your um hesitation.

I'm trying to think how to

um 100% of the time I'm going to get married and money's not going to keep me from it. Okay. But I need to be wise and I

think that's what's giving you pause. I want to wise means I need to be very very sure of this guy. Uh wise means I

need to be sure of this guy's plan to quit borrowing money, get out of debt, and build wealth.

get out of the debt business, okay?

Because you're out of it. Um, wise means

uh maybe even a prenup

that says you get something

in the event uh to offset the fact that you gave up the pension cuz you know, you're married three years, you get a divorce, you can't go back and get the pension. >> So, you need you need you would need to take a chunk of his hide with you.

That's true. That's one way of putting it. >> Yeah. That's the way I >> Otherwise, there's just too much risk. >> Yeah. Because it's $50,000 a year income, >> which is the equivalent of a half million dollar investment

that you're giving up. Um, but I always

would tell you to go live your life and be married. Um, and I think your ex, you know, your your first husband would probably tell you live your life and be married. Don't let money stand in the way of a high quality life and relationship. Right? I would not, you know, I don't want to have that as my principle or my guiding light. Um,

>> so yeah, I I want >> to do enough premarriage counseling and discussion and a length of engagement that I'm 100% comfortable. A B, that

would include us getting on the same page with money, which it means he's getting out of debt. C, I want a

million-doll life insurance policy on him.

Oh, okay. >> Doesn't cost that much if he's healthy.

Does he smoke? Is he overweight?

>> No. No, he's very he's very very

healthy. >> Okay. If he then it won't cost a lot.

Even at 59, it'll be you'll be surprised. Go to Xander Insurance. You'll be surprised how inexpensive a million dollars can be. Buy like a 10-year policy or something. Um, and then C, and this is the or D, this is the last one, and I don't know how to do this one. Um, but I really would want

to come away from a, you know, maybe a

prenup that uh faded away that if in

year one it'd be a lot, you know, you

would end up getting his house, year two, you would end up getting less, year three, you'd get less, year four you get less, and so on to where after five years you maybe didn't get anything, right? But if if this thing goes in and

you've been scammed somehow and you gave up $50,000 a year, um I would want you

to come away from it, uh leaving him

wishing he didn't do this.

>> Well, let me ask you this. My house is paid for and if he moves into my home and he sells his home for say $400,000,

where does that money go? that that that's a money that could be parked into an investment and have your name on it in the event something goes bad. That could be your prenup thing.

>> Okay? >> Because that it's not enough, but it's at least enough to somewhat offset this.

I don't I I don't think we can solve 100% for um this. The way you solve for it is the length of engagement to where you get super comfortable. detailed in-depth premarriage counseling where you get super comfortable and agreement and alignment on no more debt where you get super comfortable and then a life insurance policy and then u you know

kind of a a prenup lean on and I don't

usually do this kind of stuff but I just I'm worried about you and if I'm trying to think if I was on if he called in and said well my fiance wants to do this cuz she's given this up would I tell him to not marry you if he

called in with this and I might I'm kind of fighting against myself here a little bit but um >> it would feel different if it was >> going the other way. Yeah, if it was going the other way. But if I'm just designing this with you in mind only which is not a good design. Um I I you

know I'm going to tie up something of

his like the equity from this house in a mutual fund sitting there for the first five years of your marriage and then it's released or something like that.

You see what I'm doing?

>> Yes. And why the million-dollar left?

Just in case he dies and I I get the the >> Exactly. We're going to put you right back where you were, but a little better.

>> Okay. And my daughters are on after my husband died. Um my I put both my daughters That probably wasn't smart, but on the deed of my house. I thought about putting it in a trust, but so if he moves in here and we're married 10 years, he doesn't get anything. The house goes to my daughters. I'm not even sure how all that works. It's up to you.

You can set it up in a will and a trust and you need to do that, too. So, you guys need to sit down with an attorney and have wills drawn and have a prenup drawn and work through this. And you need to sit down with some pre-marriage counseling. This is complicated.

>> It is, >> but um you know, after 10 years, who do you want the house to go to?

Your 10year husband or to your kids? I don't think either one's evil. I'd hate to throw him in the street so your kids got a house they didn't need, >> right? But >> maybe he could live here until until he died. I don't know. >> Yeah. But if he's healthy, that could be a long relationship, man.

>> He's pretty healthy. >> We both are, actually. >> Yeah. I probably wouldn't do that. I'd probably say you get to live here a certain number of years and then you have to move.

>> Okay. >> So, it's not the rug's not jerked out from under him, so to speak, >> and your daughters your daughters don't get all like, you know, kind of thing going. So, >> but then his money, the sale from his house should go, >> it should go to him after a period of time.

>> Okay. >> But if he if he took off in the first 3 years to offset what you're giving up is

what I'm trying to figure out. You see, >> yeah, >> you're giving up a lifeline. So, we need to make sure there's another line. >> I'm not usually there's most the time I'm not a prenup guy. Um I'm not going to go that way. >> Twice on the show. You recommended it.

Look at that. >> Look at me. Well, the one was was consistent cuz it's a million six versus nothing. >> And this one is not that. It's just a >> just trying to protect her. Now, what I tell him to do that is, you know, he's got to be sure she's worth this.

>> That's true. >> Cuz he's asking her to give this up >> and he's got to pledge some a dowy to cover this. That's what compromise. I probably would tell him to do it.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this whackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

Ramsay trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent.

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Our scripture of the day is Exodus 15:13. In your unfailing love, you will

lead the people you have redeemed. In your strength, you will guide them to your holy dwelling. Simon Synynic said, "The joy of leadership comes from seeing others achieve more than they thought they were capable of." Beth is in Wilmington, Delaware. Hi, Beth. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm trying to learn about retirement, um, planning because nobody's ever taught me. I I don't really have a mom or a dad like a personal person to go to. Um, I don't

know anything about accounts, investing, long-term savings. I want to make smart financial decisions, but I honestly don't know where to start. Um, I didn't know if maybe you could possibly help me. >> Sure. you call just the show. Well, I'm proud of you for going, hey, I'm 38.

It's not too late for me to build wealth. And a part of that is is setting the foundation. So, we teach a process called the baby steps. And that involves getting out of debt, having an emergency fund, paying for the past so that you can then build for the future with all this margin because that's the main reason people don't invest. Number one, it's they're scared. They don't understand it. And number two is they don't have the money to do it. So, where are you at on this financial journey?

Okay. So, three years ago, we ch f filed for a chapter 13 bankruptcy. So, we no longer have any debt. Um because of my medical, we sold our home. We now no longer have a mortgage. We paid for a brand new well, not brand new, close to brand new home. So, we have no mortgage.

Currently, I have maybe less than $3,000 in medical debt. It's new since then. Um

we make $157,000 a year. I make about 75. He makes about

82.90 depending, you know, how much overtime he has. We don't have any credit cards. Um, so that's kind of where we are financially.

>> Any money saved at all?

>> That's the problem. That's where we keep going. Where are we going wrong? We have no money saved right now. Currently, if I look at my bank account, we have $48.

>> That's a budgeting problem. And so, we we have an app called Every Dollar that we will gift to you, the premium versions. You connect your bank accounts and you need to start making a plan for every dollar cuz you guys don't have an income problem. You got a spending problem.

>> Yeah. >> So, when you do that budget, it'll show you pretty quick where all your money's going when you start to list out every line item compared to your income.

>> Um, yeah, you're about right. And I also get bonuses. I get about $2,000 in bonuses at the end of the month. Depending.

>> Yeah, >> depending. >> So, I think you you open that app after you get off. We're going to give it to you and you sit down with your husband tonight, turn off the television, all distractions, >> and then say, "All right, let's start looking at June. We're right here at the 1st of June.

Let's say, all right, June's income is here.

And when every dollar is assigned for $9,000, you're going to look down and go, "Where are we spending all this money?" Cuz you're going to have trouble finding it all cuz there's a lot of waste in disorganization and in impulse.

And when you don't have a plan to guide you that you stick to, you have disorganization and impulse.

>> And so, you know, you're going to look down and see what you spend on Amazon and gag. You're going to look down and see what you spend on restaurants and go, "Oh my god, no wonder we have no money." And you're going to look down and spend on whatever. So, you don't have a car payment. You don't have a student loan. You don't have any debt except this little $3,000 debt.

>> That That's the other thing. Okay. So, no, I don't have student loans. Thank the Lord. Um I do have a car payment debt, which is $900 a month. Um it's about $61,000 in total. I have been paying on that since 2023.

>> That would be a debt.

>> Yes. Yes, that is a debt. I'm sorry.

See, my mom and dad never taught me any of this. >> That's okay. >> Absolutely nothing. >> That's all right.

But I mean, when you when you owe somebody a payment, you got debt. >> Yeah. Yep. >> So, I do have I have that.

And then we do have leasing. We lease the grounds that the home is on, if that makes sense. >> Mhm. >> Um, but it comes with sewer.

It comes with trash removal and a couple of other things. And it's less than a,000. Our mortgage alone was like $1,200 and climbing. >> Mhm.

>> Because of tax raising. So, >> So, are you in a mobile home? the modular. Yes.

home, so it's newer. It's not old, but Yeah. >> And did you borrow money to buy that?

>> No. So, here's the catch. The house that we had prior to this, we bought for $194,000.

We set for 5 years, maybe six. I sold it

for $322,000,

which netted me over $120,000.

>> Mhm. about. So, we took that after, you know,

all the background noise, you know, everybody we had to pay.

>> I had about $116,000 that I could put towards this and I paid it. I have no mortgage now. >> Mhm. But it's going down in value

>> pretty much. That's the sucky part about it. But the the hooker is in the next

two years, I have a decent lump sum that's coming in. We're netting anywhere between 100. >> That's independent of something going down in value. Do you get that whether you bought something that goes down in value or not?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, we want to limit the time we own this modular home.

>> That's the other problem. We can't limit it. So, we we can't even climb out of

trying to get a credit card or anything at this time. We're year three obviously, like I said, on the bankruptcy. So, we're trying to build something like a credit. At least my husband. >> No, you don't need credit right now. You don't need to build credit. You've been through a bankruptcy. uh you you I I

would start talking about how we sell this even if we end up renting something. I would rather you be a renter than owning a thing that's going down in value that's this large cuz this 100,000 is going to turn into 30,000 in about 20 minutes. And I don't want that to happen. So need to start talking about that. We need to start talking about how we're going to get rid of this car debt, like sell it. Um we need to

talk about how we're going to get in control with the money we have coming in. And then you're going to see that you're debtree except for the home or the rental. And we're going to build an emergency fund. And uh then you can start talking about your long-term investing. And we'll walk with you through every bit of that. We can show you every bit of that. But let's start with the basics. And the basics are let's get out of debt on a plan and build an emergency fund and not own a

$100,000 item that's going down in value or a $60,000 item that's going down in value that has debt on it. That would be the car. So, these are the things where you got to start. These are big moves and after all you've been through, you know, you were kind of thrashing about trying to find some footing and uh you just grabbed a slip slippery rock instead of a good one to step on.

That's the problem. So, hang on. We'll give you every dollar. Also send you a copy of the book uh uh the total money makeover and a copy of George's book.

>> Yeah, but it's not too late. I just crunch the numbers for even if it takes them a year to figure all this out, from 39 to 64, 25 years of investing 15% of

their amazing income, they'd have $3 million. So I think we can retire with

that kind of money. You can still build. >> So the future sounds like this. In the if in the next three years you sell the modular home, rent a little bit, pile up some money, um, and part purchase a home

that you then later get paid off. You get rid of all your debt, including your car, and you start living on purpose with your money and build an emergency fund. 3 years from now, you start putting 15% of your income away. Then um

at uh in just a few years you're going to have $3 million in your 60s.

>> Yeah. And the most basic financial literacy and this is something you've done for 35 years is this. Don't owe people money. Increase your income. Live on less than you make. And invest the difference. That's it. It's about three

sentences. If you just do that, you will be unbelievably wealthy and have a great life. >> And if you tell people that over and over and over for 35 years, people will call you genius.

>> You're a genius, Dave. You're a genius.

>> Well, the hard part is doing it. It's easy to say it. It's fun. But you always say, you know, personal finances, it's 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge.

>> You know what to do, but doing it is a pain in the >> She could have Googled how to get out of debt. The hard part is doing it.

>> That's the tough one. And so >> she might have put her on the show, but yeah, >> maybe she found us that way. Could have been. >> If our SEO is working well there, >> I don't think that's a thing anymore. George, >> they got rid of that with AI now. >> Yeah, I don't think >> new acronyms. >> I think there's been SEO in a while. How How could you be that, Barbara? >> Now I'm the boomer. >> Who knew? >> I can't win. >> An aging millennial.

>> Oh gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> I'm getting old. >> Yeah, but we did take two different hair

calls on the show today.

>> I'm glad I was here for it. >> Yeah. Me with none and you with perfect.

Who knew? That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 55. Finance Hacks Won’t Save You, Habits Will | March 12, 2026


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Normal is broken and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey show. George

Kamel Ramsey, personality co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sarah is in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Um so, I'm considering leaving my husband, um but I feel like I'm financially trapped um with like the amount of debt that we have. I just feel like I I'm not able to leave uh with my daughter.

Okay. What happened in your marriage, hon?

Uh we've been married for about 13 years and it's just been a lot of verbal abuse and um over the last 5 years since we've had our daughter, I just kind of started realizing that it's not something I want her to be in um and grow seeing that

type of um treatment. So, I just am at

this point where I'm you know, trying to look at my options right now and um you know, we've done couple's therapy and it's just doesn't seem like it's kind of clicking with him.

Um I just kind of feel like I'm at my wit's end with it. So. Mhm. I'm sorry.

And how many kids you got?

We have one. What age?

Uh she is four. Wow.

Well, um you know, obviously we're going to be a proponent for anybody to do anything they can to try to stay together, but not in an abusive situation without some traction on that. So, I certainly understand where you are.

A friend of mine that does divorce recovery counseling has always told me for the last 30 years that divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

So, this is now about incomes and assets

and liabilities.

So, what is your income?

Um so, my income is approximately 56,000

a year. Okay. Can you live on that as a single person?

Yes. >> Um in our area. Yes. Yes, you can. Okay.

And um you said there's debt that makes you feel like you're trapped. How much debt do you guys have?

Um so, besides our house, uh my husband has a camper loan, his truck loan, and a four-wheeler loan. And um then we have

about I think 12,000 in credit card

debt. And I have 27,000 in student loan debt. Mhm. Okay. All right. And uh what's the what's the home worth?

Uh in our area, homes that are equivalent to ours are going about 35,000.

Um 35,000 dollars?

I'm sorry, 235,000.

>> Okay. I feel better now. Okay.

I thought you were in the camper for a minute. Okay. And uh okay, 235,000. And what do you owe on it? Uh we owe about 179,000.

Okay. So, there's a little bit of equity there. Okay. I don't know how divorce works in um Wisconsin necessarily. But obviously, your next step is to just gather information. Information always uh relieves anxiety. The unknown it creates more anxiety than a known bad thing.

If we got bad news and it's clear, that's less anxiety than unknown. Then

this is a boogeyman in the closet thing.

So, you need to sit down with an attorney and find out exactly how this is probably going to go down. I mean, a good divorce attorney can tell you in 30 minutes this is probably how this is going to go down. And it could sound like he gets all of the debt with his camper truck and four-wheeler. And they sell the house and the house equity cleans up the debt that is in the on the credit cards and maybe on the student loan.

Um and maybe some of his debt as well. Um and cuz you probably get half the equity each in most cases.

Um I have one through my employer. Um it's a state pension fund. But nobody has a 401k?

Um I believe my husband has a 401k, but he doesn't have much in there right now. Okay. What does he make?

He makes about the same as I do, about 56,000 >> Okay. And then there's child support and then there's alimony. And those are the things those are the variables that if I were you I would want to learn about those things so that, you know, you know what you're facing.

Yeah. And you're probably not as trapped as you think you are. I mean, you go get a one-bedroom apartment or a two-bedroom apartment, sell the house, pay off all the debts, and start over as a single lady making 56.

Yeah. That's not That's not That's not really trapped. Yeah. I felt like I was trapped though just cuz I I mean, I still care about him and I don't want him to be stuck. But at the same time I'm looking at it as like

financially we got into the situation

and I feel like I'm responsible to pay off like the debts and everything. I I don't know why all of those are his toys.

Like I said, a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction.

If you want to get all romantic and start paying stuff you don't owe, that's a different discussion.

Mhm. If you're going to do all that, you probably need to go back to marriage counselor and try to save the marriage.

But what you know, once the decision is made and the switch is flipped, it's every man for himself, you know, and it's not mean. I don't I'm not trying to destroy him in this situation.

Um, but he could sell the four-wheeler, the camper and the truck and be out of debt, too. Hello.

Yep. Okay. So, Do you both are going to be okay on the other side? >> Nobody's trapped here except by decisions to hold on to a bunch of crap you can't afford. That's the only trapping there is. >> And staying in an abusive relationship.

Yeah. That's a worse trap to me.

And so I think those next steps will help you get some clarity on this. Yeah.

And I and I also might change the tone of the um the therapy sessions.

Like if you go sit down with an attorney and you know exactly how good a position you're actually in, then you're coming at this from a little bit more strength and you're going, "Look, I really want this to work, but all of a sudden your body language changes, your voice tone changes because of confidence and because you know you're going to be okay instead of trapped. Because uh

Sarah, what you've told me, you're not trapped. Unless you choose to be trapped. But you can choose that if you want. But you're not. And um

But you know, the a much better outcome is for him to grow up and stop the negative behavior and you guys to sell off all the garbage and get your dadgum life back with no debt. Um and just quit

buying everything in sight, the campers and four-wheelers and toys and trucks and this just sounds like boy boy out of control, little boy out of control buying crap.

And so um I mean, I don't run into a lot of ladies that have bought a camper and a four-wheeler. That's a That's a dude thing. >> Occasionally I do, but generally that would be the guy. They went along with it. >> Yeah, and the pickup to pull the the the truck the the truck to pull the camper with. That's the other thing. So, yeah, and um occasionally I run into some lady and it the whole thing was her idea, but usually she's going to make uh her mistakes in other places.

So, um you know, but you know, like she said, she was participating in the decisions, so she's willing to take responsibility for her part in the >> up for that. She was an accomplice to some of these bad decisions. Yeah. But, I like what you said there that you you need to know the facts cuz those unknowns can be scarier and just you're overwhelmed by everything around you.

You get the facts and you go, "Okay, yeah, we could sell that. Yeah, you know what? That will be split or that won't be in my name." And then you know how to move forward. >> Yeah, it's interesting like cortisol release, stress drug release is way lower on bad news that's clear than on

ambivalent ambivalent not knowing the

unknown. It creates a whole lot more stress.

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Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use our Ask Ramsey

feature. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven Randy Ramsey

principles. So, how if you don't know how AI works, AI is only as good as the data that is entered into it to cause it to think.

And so, what we did is we took thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of this show, all of my books, all of our books, the personalities books, all of the Financial Peace University lessons, and emptied them into a database. And every article And every article that we've written, and it's all in there. And so, AI forms an answer based on all of that, which means that

the answer that this Ask Ramsey will give you is better than you will get here on the show.

We'll have a brain fart, or two, but that thing can't. It can't. It doesn't know how. It's really, really popular.

It's working. It's The only thing I I want them to add a little bit more sass in there. Yeah, the snark factor could be increased.

Maybe we can add that as a dial. You can dial up how much snark you want on it.

Oh, yeah. More or less snark.

>> How direct, how Dave do you want this to be versus Rachel? You know? Woah, now that That's a sacrum, sorry. >> just got personal fast. She's more friendly. I think America can agree on that. >> hey. See what I mean? >> prove it right now.

All right. Check it out for yourself. Ramsey, askramsey@ramseysolutions.com.

Go to the website ramseysolutions.com.

Ask Ramsey's completely free. You'll get your question answered in some version of George or Rachel or Dave or whatever.

I I I'm It's It's way nicer than me, I will say that. That's true. For now, till I get through with it. I'm not done with it. Mike's in Baltimore, Maryland.

Hey Mike, what's up?

Hi, I'm I'm calling um I'm wondering if you have recommend or if you uh would

recommend um cashing out principal in a Roth IRA to pay off debt. Not unless you're bankrupt.

Not unless bankrupt, okay. Yeah.

Because it's going to it's going to cost you millions and millions and millions of dollars in tax-free growth later because you didn't address the real issue. So, how much debt have you got?

What's the problem?

Um we have about um well, we we bought a new house last summer and we used and we

have a HELOC from that at about 50k and we have a a retirement loan at about 28k

um to the 401k. Um I'm trying to take

out the 401k retirement loan first, but

we've been paying that down probably like 4k a month.

Um I'd say Okay, wait a minute. So, you got a 50,000 and a 24,000. What other debt have you got?

Uh we've got a car loan of about uh I don't know, 13k. We've got some credit card debt of maybe I don't know, 15k.

Okay. And then we we've got savings. We we we we did have emergency savings.

>> We have Well, we don't have full emergency savings, but we have about 11k in emergency 11k in savings currently.

Good. And then um our our Roth principle though is um

the question is really about the Roth principle because I I understand. I understand the question and I'm still I'm still telling you no.

I completely understand the question. It's a stupid butt idea. Don't do it.

What's your household income?

We make about 83 uh or sorry, 8,300 about every 2 weeks.

Okay, y'all 27?

No, no. We're we're both about 40. 40?

Okay.

Missed that one. All right. Um so my In doing what we do here, helping people walk out of debt and become wealthy, what is the shortest distance between where you are now and wealth? It is to to become debt-free not by destroying your nest egg that's going to make you wealthy later.

And so that's why I keep coming back to no, I'm not doing that. Um so in listening to you, you're fairly new to our information.

Um And I'll show you what we teach is a process that's very detailed and um and

very intense and dialed in.

Like eyes wide open. So you start with a

thousand dollars in savings only, not counting your retirement. You temporarily stop all retirement and then you go to what we call baby step two and you list your debts smallest to largest and you pay off everything but the house in that order with great focused intensity. Anything you can do to increase income and reduce debt as fast as possible because the sooner you've gotten rid of this 110,000, the sooner you now have flex called you're now have your income to create the uh which is your largest

wealth-building tool.

And right now you've given it all away to all these stupid things you bought that you couldn't afford.

So one of the question I have is um all right, we have you know, pre-tax retirement and that's I would say close to 900,000 at this point. Um but that's where I'm feeling like the Roth I mean I I appreciate the tax-free growth for sure.

Hey Mike. >> tempted to just Mike. Hey Mike. The guy

in your mirror is freaking lazy and

disorganized with his money. That's you.

That's not going to be fixed when you take that money out of that Roth and all of his freaking debt's going to grow back in 5 years because you've never addressed the fact that you all have overspent. You're looking for a quick fix. You're quicking for a shortcut and that is not a good plan.

I would stop adding to your retirement and you've got to address the misbehavior. You don't even know your numbers. Oh, sort of kind of maybe I think is all the language around your numbers. You don't even know where you are. You're just wandering along buying crap. And you you guys are going to have to stop that whether you cash out your 401k or not. >> If you can't afford to live off of what you told us $200,000 in take-home pay I

don't think we can help. >> it was 80. He said 8,300 every 2 weeks.

Oh, I'm sorry. >> I heard. So I'm going, "Dude, you guys make too much to be fooling around with all this debt." Okay. Yeah, that's even worse. And so if those numbers are true, you're right. The behavior is not going to change. You're going to keep robbing that 401k every chance you can get because you guys are living a lifestyle you can't afford. So my hope is to offend you enough to make you look at this.

I love you enough. I want you to get mad at me. That's fine. I'm good with that.

I want to piss you off just a little bit and make you grow up and sit down and go I'm running this thing this company called me incorporated very poorly.

If one of my VPs sat down and used the language about their budget in that one of our profit centers the way you've discussed your home, I would fire his butt for being incompetent.

Okay? You don't know I think I got sort of kind of bull crap. You need to know exactly and you guys need to get focused. You make too much money to be this broke, but y'all have been intellectually lazy in how you've addressed your personal finances. And if you'll if you'll roll up your sleeves and attack this and get get some muscle tone to what you're doing, get some intensity to what you're doing, you can clean up this mess in about a year and a half and not have to mess up everything.

Uh but if you don't, you're going to make a bigger mess later because there's no in between in this discussion.

There's not a There's not a mediocre landscape. Uh cuz you guys have consistently added to the problem and until you stop adding to the problem and being people that do that, you're going to create more messes. That's what it comes down to. Folks out there in the listening land, this is why debt consolidation doesn't work, too.

And this is why when you get an inheritance from your grandmother and you you clean up everything and 4 years later you're right back in the same mess because your habits haven't changed.

Your household processes haven't changed. You've got to address what is wrong with the our systems and our

hearts and our relationship that's caused us to get to that we can run up these debts

with this kind of money. But we feel better because we the junk drawer, we cleaned it up by putting it all in one bucket. And so we hey, look at that. It looks better and feels better except now you still got the same mountain to face and you can't debt snowball it. So debt consolidation is scary cuz makes you think you solved the problem. Yeah, and you didn't change the habits. And so 88% of the time someone takes out a debt consolidation loan, they're back in debt within 5 years.

Nine out of 10 times.

Because the debt is not the problem.

It's the symptom of intellectual laziness, immaturity, um no good systems, uh bad discussions with

or no discussions with my spouse where we're on on same page. It it Debt is the symptom. It's not the problem. And so, when you just address the symptom, expect the problem to stay there, and the symptom will grow back.

It's that simple. If you're going to get uh dandelions out of your yard, you can't just cut them with a lawnmower.

You have to dig them out by the freaking root, or they will grow back.

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Oscar is in Ottawa. Hi Oscar, how are

you? Hi, how are you? Thank you for asking.

Sure. What's up?

Uh well, long story short, I've been dating a a Polish girl for the past 5 months ish. And everything has been going well except for a few small details that are mostly related to

finances. Like since day one, I've been

paying for restaurants, like going out, like activities, snacks, and everything.

And she directly mentioned during our

conversations that this is a part of her her culture, even though she was born in Canada. And uh me I'm Iranian. I was born in Iran, raised there, and I've been here like for a couple years. And I know how Western culture functions.

And I would like to kind of make sense of it. I'm also traditional sort of. But at the same time, I don't see the point of man paying for everything.

Ex- especially in this economy.

And my question is what is your suggestion? What should I do? Is it like a big red flag or is it just something that we can kind of figure it out together?

Hmm.

It's an interesting question.

Um So uh the marriages that I'm aware of that are

high quality, they uh and when we're dating, we're you know, courting to use an old term, an old word. Uh and we're thinking about that leading toward marriage, okay? So, that's why you would ask if this is a red flag or not. Do I want to get involved with this person, right? And so, the marriages that I know that are super that I consider some of the best marriages on the planet that I've been personal witness to are where uh each of the people involved uh make the

relationship about how much they can serve the other person.

Okay. How how much can how good can I be to you? So you, how good I can I be to her? Her, how good can she be to you?

And instead of what am I getting out of this? In other words, I'm adding value to the relationship instead of taking value. If you're a taker rather than a giver kind of a thing.

Um and so I'm I'm I might look at this through that lens and say um yes, the cultural implication is very real.

Um the economic um in this economy, uh you're always going to be able to say in this economy through the rest of your entire life.

You're going to be able to say that from now on. There's always this economy.

There's never going to be one that they're just raining money on you and make stupidity okay. There's no economy that does that. >> Right. And so um there's no this economy that it but it but you know, so how much do I love this

person to the point that I want to serve them and give my life away for them would lead you to not ask this question even.

Okay. Does that make sense?

>> That makes sense. >> Yeah, you're kind of worried about you're kind of worried about if they if there's you know, if this is all I You feel like you're being taken advantage of. >> I'm getting if I'm getting my part of this, yeah. Are you sensing that from her that there's a lot of entitlement and expectation?

Um it's not I I don't I wouldn't say it's it's about expectations. Like she wouldn't like necessarily like force me, "Okay, let's go out. Let's go eat outside or let's just like >> Okay, is she a money hungry gold digger?

I would I say the first one.

She's money hungry?

Yep. Okay. Uh let me put it in in a cultural setting that I can understand and explain and let's see if it extrapolates to your situation. All right, I grew up in the old south. I'm an old southern redneck.

In our world, 100%

the guy pays for everything.

Okay. >> Period. Southern gentleman, we call it.

>> uh chivalry in our world. Honor. Mhm.

Okay? Um but that is a cultural thing. I'll admit that. Okay, that's not necessarily true in every in every uh part around the world from Iran to Polish to uh to to Poland to Canada, okay? And some mix of them between. So, um but that's the world I grew up in.

Now, in my world, what I would be look what I looked for is I I don't want to because I'm willing to pay for everything and that's an act of chivalry, uh it it The last thing I want is a high-maintenance princess that's entitled.

I'm good That's cray-cray and I'm going to avoid that woman like a like the plague.

Okay. >> So, one guy said one guy said, you know, if you if you marry a woman that likes spending money, you better enjoy working a lot.

You know, and so I No, I'm not I'm not getting it I'm not doing that. Just because my I'm going to a an action out

of my cultural upbringing, I'm going to pay for everything, doesn't mean I'm going to be taken advantage of.

Is she ordering the fanciest wine on the menu on the first date?

Filet mignon? >> No, that's not the That's not like that's how it's happening, but then let's say in a couple of months I I was planning to go on a trip with her to uh to Europe. And I was just like we're talking about everything. We set the destination like which cities and blah blah blah.

At the end in the end I was like, "Okay, so let's like talk finance and see who pays what. And she was like in my culture usually man pays the ticket and the hotel and me I can be taking care of like food. Which when I look at it, like ticket and hotel it's going to be like 90 85 to 90% of the whole expense and the food is like You know, I I might I might go ahead and take this a step further then say, okay, what if we were married?

Uh, listen, I would love to pay for everything. No, I'm saying I would ask her that. And if >> Okay. If she still expects to be coddled then you've got a princess on your hand regardless of the cultural issue. A high maintenance princess.

But that's not what it sounds like. It sounds like um, that

you know, I you just got to decide how much of this you're going to pay for.

And I don't know whether that's an old guy thing, a southern thing. I don't know. George, you're you're a Boston guy. >> Yeah. >> for Did you pay for all your dates growing >> it was a little different in the north.

>> Did you pay for you you split dates? You went Dutch? You know, I didn't get a lot of dates back in my day day. But when I did, when I did, I happily paid. I will say that.

I'm just so happy to be here. >> Exactly. I'm just so excited. I don't want to mess this up.

But to his point, he's going, well, I'm planning a trip to Europe. Well, maybe let's not plan a trip to Europe if you're worried about the finances and then bring it up like your idea and then she's like, wow, he's taking me to Europe. And then you're going, well, it's going to cost you two grand. I So I think let's set up the boundaries earlier on and go on less fancy dates

and say, hey, you want to just take a walk in the park? And if she goes, no, I'd rather go out. Well, that's a sign to Dave's point that there is some entitlement there and that she is just wanting to just spend, spend, spend. And I don't know if she's taking advantage of you or not, but I do think it's a red flag to bring up in the relationship before you go any further.

The values are different. Yeah, if you can't get aligned on the handling of money and the value of money in this relationship, that is a red flag for any relationship.

If you can't be in agreement on how we're going to handle money in the future together, we can't be in agreement about how we're going to handle crazy in-laws, we can't be in agreement about religion, and we can't be in agreement about kids, how many to have and how they're whether they're going to run the house or whether we're going to run the house, then the then these are the things that tear a marriage apart.

And the high-quality marriages get aligned on those four things. And so

you're not aligned on that, and the fact that you're not aligned is the red flag.

That's a big red flag. It It just took me a minute to get there.

Uh I'm trying to wander around in the cultural bull crap and figure out what's going on here or what >> culture. >> whether or not we got a princess on the on the line, but I don't know that. I don't hear that in his description of her. I don't hear that about her, but could be.

>> He might need to find a a penny-pinching gal who loves going to the thrift store.

That might be your type. How many hours a day they spend on Instagram? You know, cuz That would be an interesting study.

Spending habits versus >> Oh, we do know that, by the way. The num- the number the number of hours on Instagram is directly attributed to

amount of spending, 100%. Did Rachel Cruze tell you that? Personal experience? >> No, there's data on that. That's That's actually real. But I'm just talking about if you're you know, trying to find happiness in image in uh happiness in, you know, where we go, what we do, what we eat, then you're you're going to be hungry your whole life. >> If you can't just be happy being at home and bored, then you got a problem. If it always has to include spending money.

Exactly. And that that But if you guys cannot work through this and you get comfortable and she gets comfortable, the fact that you're not aligned, Oscar, is the red flag.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Paul is in San Francisco. Hey, Paul. How are you?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up?

So, my question is about retirement planning and specifically retirement accounts, um a 401k. I have a bit of a

unique situation and I, you know, get

a different opinion from everyone I ask about this, so I thought I might call the Ramsey Show.

Um Well, you'll definitely get an opinion.

Yeah, I I thought so. It's It's an interesting one.

Um So, I've done decently well for myself

so far, but this is my first time having

a a 401k.

And I'm wondering if it makes sense for

me to really use the 401k cuz I found

out recently, um you know, someone in my family had been very, very successful and I knew that, you know, eventually I was expecting to probably inherit some of that, but I was able to see uh actually read through the trust recently. And it's a lot, like a lot

more than I expected, and I'm sort of wondering if I can find security in retirement from that potentially, does it make sense for me to not use that 401k and maybe

have that money be more valuable to me now or use a Roth and Roth IRAs, and

A Roth IRA instead of a 401k?

Not necessarily instead. I have a a Roth right now that's it's pretty small, but I'm just saying instead of Okay, how how old are you? trying to retire I'm 21. Oh, okay.

And what do you make a year, sir?

About 330,000.

Wow. What do you do?

in sales Good for you. Well done. Okay.

And how much is in this trust that's supposed to come to you?

So, there are a lot of different people, and not a lot, a handful. I think it's six different beneficiaries in the trust, but it's low to mid eight figures. Um,

so I would think that that's plenty to retire on, especially if that's going to grow over time. I'm sorry, so you're going to receive $100 million?

Your part?

I mean, if you're accounting for how it's going to grow, that might be what it's worth total. I mean, divide that by five, maybe. Oh, divided by five.

Well, that's a lot different. Okay. >> Yeah, and So, you might get you're going to get somewhere between Do you think 10 and 20 million dollars?

I would think so. >> Okay, and about about what How many years out do we think this might be?

Well, I mean, like we said, I'm pretty young. That's a fair way away.

>> years before this person dies and you get your 20 million dollars, dude?

Roughly? Maybe 20. Okay. So, you'd be

like 40 years old. Okay.

All right. So, no, I would not put my life on hold and quit investing and quit building wealth on my own because I might get an inheritance 20 years from now.

Absolutely not.

I would pretend like that's not coming and live my life properly and with discipline and with dignity.

When you save money, it says something about your character and your maturity.

It's not a math thing.

>> And so it's good for you to develop a life that's good for Paul. And if in

addition to that, you get an extra $20 million, well, that puts you in a position to be outrageously generous someday and change your whole family tree in addition to the money that you make because you could easily making 330,000 starting at 21, you should be a multimillionaire by the time this money comes.

Mhm. And if you don't, then you just pissed it away and you're an immature child.

Yeah, no, I I live quite frugally, actually. I have no debt. Well, I mean, there's a lot of options here. There's three things we can do with money. We can spend it and enjoy it, and you should. You can give it and be generous with it, and you should. And you can save and invest it, and you should. All

three are good for your character, they're good for your psyche, they're good for your spiritual walk. All three are good for the math. All three cause you to have a high-quality person and be a person that someone listening would want their daughter to date.

A trust fund baby who put life on hold waiting on an inheritance 20 years from now is not someone I want my daughter to date.

This is not a man with big broad shoulders.

Yeah, that you got to not let that muscle atrophy. And if you start flexing this now and you have that delayed gratification muscle going, the wealth building muscle, then you're going to treat the money differently. If I was handed $20 million that I didn't actually put away and earn, I'm going to treat it differently than money that I socked away for 20 years. And I think that delayed gratification lesson is worth learning.

One definition of maturity is learning is the emotional ability to delay pleasure. That's one of the definitions. And so, yeah, I want that for you not because of the money or the math or not because you're going to need money. You may or may not need money. If this comes through, you're not going to need money.

But, I want it for who you become as a person, as a man, as a woman, if you're out there listening. Who you become while you get out of debt. Who you become while you sacrifice and work extra to clean up a mess. Who you become

in your marriage and in your relationship, what your relationship looks like because we struggled together and we both put our shoulder to the wheel and push together. Who we become is more important than what we what we end up with mathematically.

And so, I don't want you to be atrophied. And um, you know, from lack of use of

your uh of lack of maturity that you grow into. So, no, I I I would pretend like that money's not coming instead of using it as a demotivator.

And if you're so frugal, you're going to have plenty of money left over to max out all retirement accounts and still have an incredible life. Yeah. You're a sharp dude. still enjoy.

I mean, I'm not saying don't spend and enjoy money. We always say do that. And in your case, God, you're 21, you make 300 grand. Gee miny and cricket, I mean, that's amazing.

>> Enjoy some of it. >> you need to but you need to be giving some of it and saving some of it and enjoying some of it. Always be doing all three. Melissa is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi, I'm good, thanks. Thank you guys so much for what you do. I listen every day and just feel like I learn so so much.

>> Thanks. How can we help?

Um, so, my husband is in regional sales

um and he drives about 350 to 400 miles for work on his personal vehicle every week. Um, unfortunately, a company car yeah.

Unfortunately, a company car isn't available to him. Um, and up to this point, we've just chosen to manage that by budgeting for a car payment um on a new car in order to keep him in something reliable with minimal maintenance with that kind of mileage. Um, but I'm curious how I know that that's not what you would suggest, but I'm curious, um, just with our situation how you might suggest we avoid that without draining

our savings every few years to buy a car in cash that isn't really going to last the mileage that he puts on it.

Mhm.

Okay. Can we agree that the amount of miles he's putting on the car is absolutely destroying the car's value?

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's worth nothing when he's through with it.

Okay. So, we're taking something and making it worth nothing as a function of his job.

And so, if you're running a business, what you would do is you would buy the least expensive car that would, in quotes, get the job done.

Now, what gets the job done? What does that mean? Well, it means two things for me if I'm in his shoes. Number one, it means reliability. I have to be able to get to the job and get the get the sale made, right? Number two, it has to be reasonably comfortable cuz I live in the stupid thing.

Right. Okay. So, we're not going to put him in a smart car or a Dodge Neon. Okay?

>> 6'3, so that might not be a great idea.

I rest my case, you know. So, yeah, it needs to be reasonably comfortable. But, what people do in your all situation is, instead of buying a $20,000 car that would do all of that and destroying 20,000, they buy a $60,000 car and destroy 60,000.

Mhm. And that's that's not necessary to get the job done. So, I would buy a $20,000 car with an every 2-year replacement plan.

And okay. >> And And I would pay cash for it.

Period. And you would recommend it I

guess my question is about >> breaking up, honey. You got to walk back to wherever you are. Just know that every average The average new car loses 60% of its value in the first 5 years.

>> And hers just loses 60% in the first year. >> Exactly. So, you're better off buying a 6-year-old car for 20 grand and driving that into the ground cuz someone else already prepaid the depreciation. That's the lesson here. Yeah, just you Whatever it is, you're destroying that amount of money. So, destroy the least amount of money possible to get the job done. For me, that's a $20,000 car in this situation, and every 2 years I need $20,000.

So, I need to be setting aside that much every month to replace the stupid car all the time. But, no, I would not be driving something fancy. You don't need eye candy that when you're a road warrior.

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That's

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Kamel, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host.

Jacob is in Dallas. Hey Jacob, how are you?

Hey brother. Thanks for taking the call.

Sure, man. What's up?

Uh yeah, so I think I'm in a bit of a unique situation. Do um I had a net worth of north of the seven-figure mark uh around I want to say probably a month ago. Uh yeah, a month and a half ago. Um made some poor decisions, led to a significant downturn in my net worth. Uh down to only everything and trying to just reframe my mindset and like decide the next steps to go from here.

That was pretty vague.

So, you had like a million dollars?

Yeah, I probably had around 1.9 million.

1.9 million.

Okay, and what you do that screwed it up?

Um gambling, lifestyle inflation.

Lifestyle inflation?

Yeah, I mean partying, doing the the whole the whole nine yards.

Okay. So, what did you buy?

Um I mean it was more so just going out, traveling, clubbing, bottles, cars,

Airbnbs. It was um poor decisions and then a lot of gambling. I think uh What kind of gambling? So, what what drug What kind of drugs were you doing?

Um I mean it was more so just like cocaine. Yeah. The the whole nine yards when you're partying. >> like yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So, have you been to rehab yet, hon?

Um I have I have not, no. Um I think

I didn't have a necessarily a drug problem. It was more so just Oh, no, you have a drug problem. There's no question. It It all in It was all in your story. I heard it. You definitely have a drug problem and you definitely have a gambling problem and you definitely have a lot of problems. So, what are we doing to fix the problems?

Um well, I did start going to gambling or going to therapy for gambling specifically. Um that was like the main step. And then uh down cycle on my life, cut back on majority of my expenses.

Just reframing everything. Going from there.

Okay, so what did you or do you do for a living?

Um I did a lot of marketing crypto.

Okay. Are you still doing that?

Um yeah, I just recently stopped after this last hit. Uh lost kind of all motivation. So, do you have a full-time job or are you just playing with crypto as kind of a another form of gambling? And you've made some money doing that.

>> Well, I mean I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I XYZ or XX But I'm also in college, so this was all just a side time thing that was working out really well, I guess.

I'm 20. 20?

Yep.

Okay.

All right, so you um

you chased the rainbow and it didn't bring you happiness. Is that the moral of the story?

Um I yeah, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I It wasn't um necessarily my fulfillment.

Well, it led you It led you to a a life that was just out of control and not fun. It was It was supposed to be fun, but at the end of the day it just looked like a stupid kid losing all his money and snorting cocaine. When you look back on it, that's got to be what you see.

Yeah, 100%. Um I don't condone any of the actions, nor do I think that it was the smartest decision at the time. So, I'm where I'm going is is that I don't know what drove you to get to that point. Um

but um

Yeah. Okay, so what would I tell

my son if he was 20 years old and called me and was in the exact situation?

It sounds like you need a complete reset of what you think

life is about.

And someone told you that it was about getting a lot of money quickly and easily and that you're smart and that you could do that and then you could go do anything you wanted to do. And so you you The good news is you got hedonism out of your system really early in your life. The bad news is it cost you a couple million dollars to do it.

Um and so um you know, I would take you from Wolf of Wall Street to a monk.

I'd go the other end of the spectrum and just go, "I'm just going to be a boring,

calm, steady guy, which is the opposite of everything you have been." In order to reset your brain and reset your spirit, I'd plug into a good local church and um uh one of the things I had to assess and I kind of smell it here. I'm not sure if I do and you can you can correct me if you want to. I don't care.

Um when I went broke in my 20s, one of

the things I figured out was I wasn't as hot as I thought I was.

It pretty much took my little ego and grounded under a boot.

And uh cuz I I was pretty smart and I was doing some pretty smart um leverage fund things, nothing like you've done.

But um but I mean I I had it going and then when I when I hit the wall and the car just disintegrated in the you know, NASCAR wreck, the engine's up in the stands, right? I mean this thing's just gone. Uh one of the things I had to come to grips with is I wasn't as hot as I thought I was.

And that helped me reset, and I settled way down into a more

psychologically and spiritually healthy rhythm to reset my life, and I think that's what I want for you cuz I like you.

Yeah. Now, I um I think I I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, yeah, during this whole span especially since the last hit, I think I became insanely depressed. I was um definitely going through an episode. Like it was terrible. I mean, I was flying. I was spending like 100K at the club. I'd fly back. Then I'd go gamble like 500,000. At a point I was playing like multiple six-figure hands.

Um like what I see is 1.9. I mean, that was flowing, obviously. I mean, the have wins that I've lost is and I've just lost including my cash flow, but I was very cash flow heavy. Why do you even need money right now as a college kid?

Um I mean, I think Are you in college? I don't necessarily Yeah, I I'm in college. I mean, I don't think it was necessarily about the What are you studying?

Um marketing. Well, I was Yeah, marketing. Okay. You've been going to classes and completing all the assignments?

Um I did until this last year. I think I went off the rails this last year. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I I um

Yeah, the behaviors got you into the mess. And to get the I would go to the opposite end of the behaviors to create healing.

And so look at every one of the behaviors and what are the roots of each of the behaviors and how can I avoid those? So, one of the things I fell for that you did as well is get rich quick.

And I I thought I'm smart enough, I can do this, I can build wealth quickly and easily. Other people don't know how to do it. I'm quick enough with numbers, I can do this. I can pull this off. And that's what I did not at the scale you Well, actually the scale you did. I had a better net worth than you had. But um at 23. But um but I lost it all because

I built a house of cards.

And um you know, I wasn't playing long ball. Everything was short ball. Everything was just get on base. Just get on base. And there was no infinite game. There was no eternity thought.

There was no thought of uh heaven. There was no thought of other people matter.

Uh it was simply get the thing done. Get the thing done. Turn the deal. Turn the deal. And so, I had to go to the other end of the spectrum when I went broke. And I had the benefit of losing everything and going bankrupt. And I got the opportunity to start over. I met God on the way up, Jacob. I got to know him on the way down.

And you desperately need to get to know him right now. It's your only shot out of this.

So, I'd check into a great church in the area. Start talking to some of the businessmen in that church that love Jesus and let them talk to you about how to reform what a man really is inside of

you.

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Meredith is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Meredith, how are you?

Hi Mr. Ramsey, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, so my husband and I have two young kids under the age of four.

We currently rent a small duplex for about $785 a month, and we have about $7,000 I'm sorry, $4,000 in savings.

And only debt we have is a credit card, but we pay that off every month like completely almost. We're about to receive a $2.6 million

lawsuit for medical malpractice.

And we didn't grow up with money, so honestly we're kind of scared, and we just want to make sure we're doing the right thing for our family.

So my question to you would be what would be the wisest thing for us to do, and like how how should we handle this?

It's a fabulous question.

I really really like your your spirit and your attitude. Thank you so much.

You are very wise to be scared.

Okay. And because you don't you don't you you know, you're smart enough to know that you don't know how to handle two 2.6 million.

Now Yeah. So a couple of principles are this. Number one, keep doing what you just did.

The Bible says in the multitude of counsel there is safety.

And so you start bringing people into your life to advise you, not to do it for you,

but to teach you to teach you. Okay? And

there's a couple of three people um if you want to write this down, you can or you can go back and watch it or listen to it later when it comes out and hits the podcast. Um but the the the first person you guys need is a financial advisor, someone to help you with your investing. And you can go to ramsaysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro,

and sit down with a couple of those and interview them. Now, what you're doing is you're interviewing someone to that you are comfortable with, you feel good about, they're not intimidating,

instead they have the heart of a teacher.

Anyone in the financial world that does not have the heart of a teacher and instead starts dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and wagging their finger and saying, "You need to do this because I said do it." You should run from them.

Yes, sir. So, your job is to manage this money, not that person.

That person's job is to teach you to be

a little bit better at managing money.

So, principle number one is we're going to put a group of those people in our lives. We're going to have a a financial advisor and a like a a mutual fund broker, okay? We're going to get an insurance person that knows insurance.

We're going to get a real estate person cuz I got a feeling you're going to buy a house. Um you're going to you can get that at Ramsey Trusted at at the website if you want people cuz we do not put our Ramsey Trusted label on these people unless they have the heart of a teacher.

Okay? You need a tax advisor.

Okay. Okay. So, insurance, real estate,

investing, and tax. Those four people

become your little board of directors.

And again, their job is not tell you what to do, their job is to teach you

some of the things you could choose to do.

Okay. Principle number one, heart of a teacher, not babysitter.

Okay. Principle number two, do not put money in something unless you understand it.

Okay. If it feels good or they Oh, well, that he seems to know what he's doing, honey. We're going to go with him. Those are the words people say right before they get scammed.

Oh. Okay. So, you say, I don't understand this yet. So, we're not doing it yet.

Okay? Because it's your job before God to manage this money, not theirs.

And so, we don't we don't do stuff until we understand it. And if it's brand new and you're brand new to it, that's okay.

You don't know how to ride a bicycle yet. You just got your first bicycle.

So, it may take a minute to balance, right? That's okay. That's okay. Don't you know, but you don't go buy a $30,000 Harley and you can't ride a bicycle.

Yeah. Okay? Yeah. And and so, we we get our skills up and our competence and confidence up, and that will give you great peace about this. Principle number three, go slower than you think you should.

For some reason, we feel like we have to become competent and uh sophisticated

overnight.

And it takes a little while. The first time you buy a house, you've never seen that much paperwork. The first time you open a mutual fund, you have never seen that much paperwork.

The first time, you know, when you're 8 years old and you open a bank account, it's intimidating. But once you've opened 30 of them, it's not a big deal.

So, take give yourself the grace

to go slow and to learn and not put money in something until you're ready. So, it's okay to park this money in something super boring that is not sophisticated while you spend some time learning.

Does that feel right to your spirit?

Most definitely. I got it written down.

Okay. How old are you guys?

Um I am 29 and my husband is 38.

>> Okay. And a good framework, if you want to figure out how to apply this money and start working your way through as you understand it and as you increase your speed just a little bit on some of these things and as some of these people with a heart of a teacher advise you, is I would walk right up the baby steps that we walk everybody up. And so, that's become debt free, pay off all your debts, get on a written budget so you're and you live on your income. You don't touch this money.

You don't need this money to live. You just live on the income that's coming into the house. You're living on it now.

So, keep living on it.

And don't increase your lifestyle to where you're having to drain this money to support your lifestyle.

Keep living on your income and if you do that and you use this money to step through the baby steps, the the 2.6 million could literally be 20 million in about 20 years.

Right. Yeah, see we don't need to we don't have debt. Like we just use our credit cards for gas and then if I >> Well, you would get rid of the credit card cuz you don't need it anymore. Use a debit card.

Okay. And you get on a budget and the two of you know where exactly where every dollar is going. Now, the duplex, do you own it or you're renting it?

No, sir. We're renting it. Okay, so you're probably going to go buy a house and pay cash for it.

Yes, sir. We were thinking about um somebody had told us about getting a duplex >> No, I'd just go buy a house.

Okay. You don't need to get fancy. Just go buy a house. Go buy you a nice house that's, I don't know, two or three hundred thousand dollars in Greenville, South Carolina is a pretty dadgum good house.

Yes, sorry. It's nicer than the duplex you're living in.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and top off your emergency fund. So, if you spend if you spend 400k out of 2.6 million and you pay cash for a house and you don't have any payments anymore on a house and you have no payments anywhere else, no other debt and you're living on a budget, then the rest of that money can go to completely change your all's future.

If you'll live in the present like grownups and and avoid and I know you're going to do this cuz I could tell by the way you asked the question coming out of the gate. Avoid the need or avoid the thing

of oh, I hit the lottery and I'm rich.

You're really not rich. This money will be gone in about 20 minutes if you start screwing around with it.

Exactly. We just took that call. So, you

can be very wise with this. I just crunched some numbers for you. You said you're you're 29 years old. If you just pretended this money did not exist and at 62 you looked up and said, "Hey, we can retire." It'd be 81 million dollars in there. If you just didn't touch it and forgot it existed and it was invested wisely.

So, that's what we're talking about here. Now, you're going to use some of it though. So, it's not going to be quite that much. It's probably only going to be 60 million. >> You'll enjoy some and you'll give some.

You'll cover your kids' college funds and and help them get started in their adult life. But, that's the kind of stuff you can do if you handle this wisely and I think you will. And but it's it's number one, do not take advice

from someone unless they have the heart of a teacher. Number two, don't put money in stuff unless you understand it.

Number three, go slower than you think you should. It's okay, give yourself time to catch up. You're not an expert on this. You don't have a You didn't grow up with money.

You didn't grow up with people talking about money. This is a new thing and it's okay to learn something new and take a little time to do that. And and but that's how this stuff That's how money gets away from people is they violate those three things. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover as our gift.

We don't need anything from you and we're also going to set you up in the EveryDollar budgeting system, and that'll guide you through the process and then you guys make your decisions and be smart. And Meredith, we're here if you need some more help.

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Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If your private

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That's the letter Y, R, E, F, Y {dot}

com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from McKenzie in Washington. My husband and I are in in a considerable amount of debt including two car loans, two student loans, credit cards, taxes, and our mortgage.

We barely make it through each month and rely on credit cards to bridge the gap. We have a $100,000 in a high yield savings account. Do we pull out all of our savings and pay off everything except the house and have no emergency fund? We are in our early 50s and contribute to retirement but don't have much in there yet.

We are scared to deplete our savings account.

Mhm. I mean, you got a life raft sitting there and you're going further into debt on these credit cards. Absolutely.

Drain that high yield savings down to just your starter emergency fund right now and knock out the debt if you can.

I don't know if it'll knock out all of the debt but the mortgage it sounds like it will. Yeah, the way you're describing it will.

So, McKenzie, here's the thing. You got to cut up the credit cards and never use them again.

Ever.

You have to get on a written detailed budget. Get the EveryDollar app and get yourself going. You and your husband working together.

Absolutely the only way you're going to survive this. You probably need to sell one or both cars.

Because I don't we don't know the numbers. They're not here.

But I'm going to guess and say a large portion of this might be car debt.

It usually is. That's how we guess that.

It's not a hard guess.

And then, I would drain my savings and be 100% debt free.

You you know, let's pretend that

of your debt that one of the cars is a $50,000 car debt and you owe

um 50 on it and it's worth 40.

Use some of your 100 to pay the difference and sell the car.

Cover the upside down amount. And then use another 10,000 and buy you a $10,000 car for cash.

Okay, that uses 20 of your 100 in that example instead of simply paying off the $50,000 car. I'd get rid of that. >> you're behind on retirement. I mean, you said you're scared to deplete your savings.

I'm scared you're not going to be able to retire. That's a much bigger problem. You can build back up the savings, but you guys got to get on this. >> back up the savings and you can build back up your retirement when you don't have any stinking payments.

>> all those That's probably a few thousand dollars in payments sitting >> But here's what's happened. You guys are normal.

You've got two car loans, two student loans, credit cards, and and you don't make enough to cover your bills. Because you've put yourself so far in debt buying crap you couldn't afford with money you didn't have to impress people you don't even really like. You're a normal American. >> And I guarantee they're six-figure earners. Yeah. So, what you've got to do now is you have to stop being normal.

And that means get highly organized, highly intense, and I'm going to make every dollar of our income behave, and we aren't buying anything unless we pay cash for it for the rest of our lives.

If you can't pay cash for it, you can't buy it. For the rest of your life.

And then you'll have your income freed up to put your

retirement in place, build some wealth, and put your emergency fund back in place if you've used it all with this $100,000.

But you should use the $100,000 today, and you probably should sell one or two cars.

And get some less expensive cars. You can move back up in car later after you become wealthy, but right now you're just broke people.

So, you need to be acting like broke people instead of rich people.

Andrew's in Atlanta. Hi, Andrew. How are you? I'm well, Mr. Dave. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, so I'm just giving you a call today because I am in a pickle. Um,

I am supposed to be getting married in

Italy and my family, or at least my side of the family, has basically let me know that they have, you know, they don't really have the savings or the money anymore to go. Um, so I'm on baby step

two. Um, I only have about 2,000 less in my car loan. Um, I have about 3,000 saved and I

have >> heck are you getting married in Italy if you're broke?

Um, well, it's it's her family's doing.

Her side is well off and you know, they they asked us what do we want? We always dreamed of getting married in Italy, so >> think there's any we. I think it's what she wanted and you got hooked into it.

Uh, well, no, it's it's it's something that we always spoke about when we first got together. Like it was like a joke. Like, yeah, we can get married in Italy one day and you know, and then it actually became a real thing. Um, so yeah, they I mean

they're they're willing to, you know, pay for it and >> Okay, Andrew, wait a minute. I'm sorry. Let me stop you for a second.

There's a 100% chance when you were planning all this that you knew your family couldn't afford it.

Um, well, I told them a year ahead >> No, no, no, no, no. You know your family. You grew up with them. You knew they didn't have any money.

Yeah, I mean I mean I I I I told them to save and and and they told me that they were saving and they were good and then now we're here and they're like, hey, you know, we didn't save. So, I'm just kind of in a pickle. So, You're not in a pickle. You're not in a pickle.

They are. They won't be able to attend your wedding. Well, that's the thing. I never thought I'd be getting married without having my family there to support me and I feel like now I'm just going to get married and it's just going to be a whole gang of of her family.

you know, like a oddball. That's a bummer. >> You have a right to be disappointed with your family.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Not really. Not really. No. I mean, you I disagree, Andrea. I I For you to think they were going to do this was um you you knew your family.

You grew up with them. You knew they didn't have money. You knew they weren't going to be able to save this money. And you wanted to go to Italy anyway. And so, this didn't sneak up on you. I I don't agree. And it's not not due to them being irresponsible. They're just is who they is and you plan a wedding a place your people your people can't afford to go to. Man, that's so that's awful. I'm sorry.

Yeah. >> So, I guess I guess you just have a big celebration of some kind of cook get some barbecue when you get back put it in the backyard and on the picnic table and let's have a little throw down when you get home, right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's I mean, that's the plan. Um maybe maybe I I can do that. Um

I mean, >> your plan if you didn't call us?

Uh there was no plan. Really uh I mean, I don't get me wrong. I don't get me wrong. I I thought about maybe doing something like locally, but honestly, with me being on Baby Step 2, I don't really have, you know, enough funds to do something that would be big, you know, or that would be nice for my family at least.

Yeah. So, her family's paying your plane ticket.

Um they're they're paying for everything. Um we we already got our plane tickets probably about like a year ago.

On your own? No. No, I mean, she they No, their family paying for everything. They bought the plane. Her dad bought the plane ticket. >> paying a dime for anything involved.

>> No, he don't have any money. He's got $2,000.

No, yeah.

How old are you two?

Uh we're both 20 25. Okay. You're both working full-time?

Um no, I I I pretty much, you know, pay everything and do everything. She stay home. But but it's our money, you know.

I'm real big on the Ram the Ramsey we, not I. You guys have kids? Uh no, you're not big on the Ramsey we cuz you're not married.

Yeah. The Ramsey we doesn't apply to you're married. We tell you not to combine money until you're married.

Remember? Did you know that?

Yes. Yes, I definitely did.

>> Okay. All right.

So, how long have you two been living together?

Um, we've been together about living together probably about two, three years now.

Okay.

Um when is the Italy wedding?

Um, roughly about 30 days from now.

Okay. Um, it's probably not going to go over well. Not No, your parents don't get to go to Italy. You don't have the money, and you're not going to go borrow money to send them to Italy.

You're broke. Um there's another alternative. I don't think it's going to work cuz I don't think the people involved in this story are going to do it, but what you could do is go get married next weekend and have your family and their family there. I have a friend that did that uh because they the kids wanted to move in together and they were Christians and didn't want to live together before they were married.

And so, they went and got married like 60 days before the uh destination wedding and moved in married, moved in together, and the family was all present for the little wedding at a little chapel, and then they went to Paris is where they got married and did a destination in Paris.

Hey, if you're working the steps, the best and fastest way to get out of debt and into wealth is by using every dollar. Now, this is more than just a budgeting app. It's a plan built right in. It's our plan.

You walk the Ramsey plan, we're going to help you track your progress. You get a personalized recommendation all the time continuously from us. We're going to push you, pull you, wink at you, yell at you, smile at you to get you to do this stuff and it'll help you free up more money and work the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day.

Start EveryDollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Wyatt is in Fargo, North Dakota.

I'm good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh I am calling today to ask if I should

repair my credit score.

No.

Just just no? Just no. Yeah. Because but

let's let's walk Let me let me back up then and tell you why Yeah. and where that came from. All right. Okay?

So, there's only one way to repair your credit score and that is to go to borrowing money and the paying on time of the borrowed

money begins to flush out and push the old

late payments to the back of the file

and the further to the back of the file they get, the better the credit score gets. In other words, if you have three things on your credit report and they're all negative because you were late on them and you put 10 things on your credit report that are all positive and you're on time on them, it will shift your That's how you repair your credit.

Yep. But you can't make the actual late payments history go away. You can

just push it to the back and overwhelm it with new debt.

Mhm. That's how people repair credit.

The other way you can repair credit is if there's something inaccurate on your credit bureau, you can have that removed.

But, that's probably not what we're talking about. And then, let's go past that and then rise up above the whole thing and say that a credit score is not an indication that you're winning with money.

Yeah. >> score is 100% derived from an algorithm.

Fair Isaac wrote the score, that's where it came from. And the algorithm is 100% how you interact with debt.

So, what kind of debt you have, how you pay the debt, how much debt you have,

those are the things that create your credit score. So, your credit score is actually not a credit score or an I'm winning with money score, it's actually an I love debt score.

Yeah. >> mathematically.

Mathematically? Yeah. And and and and so, you know, I don't want an I love debt score, I want a high net worth.

So, think about it this way, Wyatt. A good score just means you're good at managing debt. A bad score means you are bad at managing debt. None of that has to do with actual wealth building.

So, let's get you to build some wealth instead, and that involves paying off your debt. And at that point, you won't have a So, what I would do is how much how many bad things have you got on your report?

Um uh quite a bit, not from me though.

Okay, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. How can you have stuff on your report that's not from you?

Because back when I was a child, my mother took out credit cards in my name.

>> that's identity theft, honey. It's fraud. That's fraud. >> I I'm aware. Um

and she took out money in my name. She's paid it all back at this point, but my

my credit score has suffered severely because of it. >> How old are you?

I'm 22 now.

Okay. All right. I would

submit identity theft on every one of those accounts.

And have them removed.

Okay?

Yeah. Did you use the money she paid you to pay that the debts off? What happened? Did she give you Did you didn't get any of this money. She just stole your identity. Your mother's a thief.

Uh yeah. Yeah.

Uh sorry.

It's heartbreaking to say that out loud.

Yeah. We have a complicated relationship. I'll

bet.

>> What Unless you're insane, you would have a complicated relationship.

Cuz you'd have to be insane to go along with this.

Yeah. It's I mean, I'm doing great now,

but it it's following me and it's affecting like interest rates and stuff.

So >> affects interest rates only if you're borrowing money.

Which I'm not doing much of anymore.

Okay, then you don't have to worry about it. >> Just don't do any. What do you need a a debt for right now? >> Yeah. So, okay. There's two answers to the question. One, the first answer I gave you is the correct answer. Don't worry about repairing your credit in the sense of don't worship at the altar of the FICO score. And because it we're not It doesn't affect interest rates on for me. I don't have a credit score and I have zero credit and I have zero debt.

So, I don't have a problem with interest rates. And that's where I want That's where I want you to get to, okay? Now, then let's go to the other part of this and that is that you were abused as a child.

Your mother's a financial abuser.

She stole your identity and messed up your electronic reputation.

And so, you should file identity theft

and on every one of those accounts that you did not open.

And have them removed. They're probably going to require that you do a police report and identify the thief. They will

do nothing to her. They should. They should put her in jail, but they won't.

Um but the good news is they actually didn't lose anything cuz she actually went and paid them, but she just paid them late. Is that what you told us?

Yeah, really late, but Yeah, so so they won't they won't they won't do anything to her cuz they got their money.

But you're going to have to go through some steps and you can have every bit of that completely removed and you should from your credit bureau report. I would if I were you. Do you want to work on that? If you want to work on that, I've got somebody that'll help you do it.

Um I I think I'm going to do >> You're not going to do it. That was a long pause. >> It was a big um You're not You're not going to address your mother ever again. Okay. So, anyway, you're going to live with this then and you're just going to live with it and over time after it's been on there after the account has no activity for 7 years, it will completely fall off.

But if you want to address it, folks, Zander Insurance's identity theft will take care of it. And if you have identity theft in place before this happens, which he couldn't have known.

He was 4 years old. But um but I I was going to offer him Zander, but I'm not now because I don't think he's going to do it. So, I'm going to waste my time. All right, Ben is in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey Ben, what's up?

Hey sir, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

Uh so, I think I'm on baby step six, but

there are two asterisks.

Um one, I don't know if I've saved enough for my daughter's college. And two, I still have a rental house that's not paid off. Um but >> Rental house would be in baby step six.

And four, five, and six run simultaneously.

Okay. Not progressively.

And so, you're you're if you're on baby step four, you're on baby step six.

Four, five, and six are at the same time. So, we're saving for 15% for retirement.

We're saving towards kids' college. If you think you got that done, you could stop that, and then you continue on, and that would put more on baby step six, which would be to clear off mortgages in baby step six.

Okay. That Is that logical?

It does. Yes, it does. Okay. How much you got saved for the kiddo?

Uh about 40,000 in a 529.

>> How old is she?

She's uh in kindergarten. She's about to turn six. >> You got You got enough.

And uh I also have a GI bill.

You definitely got enough.

You did a great job. Thank you for your service to the country, and thank you for being a great dad. Way to go, dude.

>> it. Yeah, both of those you're just You got a A+ on both categories. Well done. Uh also, make sure that 529 that was invested in good growth stock mutual funds. If it is, it will double every 7 years, which means it's going to be uh 80 160,000 by the time she gets there.

I think that should be enough. >> Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, I think it's enough. Think you're done.

Box is checked. You did great, man.

>> That's 40 grand a year, and that's if they don't get scholarships, and you got the GI bill on top of that. So, I would You could stop funding it at this rate.

>> Yeah, and now just start going over that mortgage and knock out the >> mortgages. >> Knock out that rental mortgage and the home mortgage before you do that. >> And by the time she's in college, you could cash flow any other expenses that come your way. There we go. >> good life, man. Life is great. Well done, Ben. See what happens when you pay attention, boys and girls?

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Jordan

is in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi Jordan, how are you? Hi, I'm doing good. Thanks taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Well, I am currently 42 years old, have my house paid off, no debt on all of my cars.

I really haven't started a retirement fund other than the pension I have from the government that I work.

And I have a lot of collectibles.

And I'm trying to determine if I should sell them and put that into a retirement account or let them continue to increase in value and sell them later.

Okay. Um I would make sure you got a retirement account started. If it requires selling the collectibles to do that, I would.

But if it doesn't, then you might keep them. The rule on collectibles are is this.

As a category, collectibles, which would be like coins, uh art, uh antiques, guns, uh anything that falls in that category, as a category, collectibles do not keep up with a good mutual fund investment.

However, people who are into a particular hobby

generally will make a good enough purchase on the collectible and know the particular nuances of it. Uh for

instance, a car collection of persons really into cars, you can make more on that because you have knowledge in it than you would make on a mutual fund.

But as in general, if you just said I'm going to collect cars, uh that no that wouldn't you wouldn't keep up with it.

But if you just really are into Corvettes and you've got five different times for Corvettes or whatever you you probably are going to make some good money on that. So that's probably your case. You're probably kind of into a couple of these things. Stamps is another one. Um that kind of thing that are baseball cards even. I know one guy's got you know, $200,000 in baseball cards, but he's way into it, you know. Um and and

so he's probably actually making decent money on it. I would never use that as a substitute for retirement though.

Are you there? >> Okay. What kind of collectibles do you have? Uh for the most part, uh a lot of card collectibles, uh vintage board games,

vintage antique books, stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as you know, um I don't know anything about the board game part, but the the book the book side, um a wide

spectrum of completely useless all the way to extremely valuable.

Yep. And it's it's like there's a lot of stuff in between. Um and what kind of cards? Pokémon or baseball or what?

Uh I have a lot of uh Magic the Gathering Alpha cards, like Black Lotus and >> Yeah. different vintage ones like that from the original printings that I collect.

Yeah. Are there ones you could part with and uh have no sentimental value to you that you go, I could sell this and make 20 grand and and be fine?

I could probably sell it all and be fine. Um I just don't want my wife or my kids if I kick the bucket to send it to Goodwill.

That's a good point. Yeah, that that's that's that's just That's some estate planning and some good instruction.

So, like uh my wife actually brought that up the other day. She said, "Okay, what am I going to do? We've got all this detailed estate plan." But, she's like made me write out a thing about about a year and a half ago, like, "Okay, I am not going to deal with your guns.

You have way too many of them, and I have nothing to do with this. I mean, the kid The boys will want four or five each, and after that, what am I going to do with them?" I'm like, "Okay, need to have give you a plan for that." And so, write it out this And I've got a detailed just because I'm into it. You know, it's a hobby. And so, it's all written out.

And so, that's all you need to do there is write it all out so they don't send it to Goodwill and that we don't, you know, give away something that's worth $20,000 or use it as a bookmark or something in one of those vintage books. And so, yeah, that kind of stuff. >> they'd much rather have an inheritance in the, you know, inherited IRA. That's going to be a lot simpler for them to handle.

So, I I would sell it if it doesn't mean much to you, and it was a fun hobby. I would sell it and park that in a in your retirement account or an IRA and start start on that. Cuz you're 42. Uh I mean, you got 20 years at least of a working career to build some wealth, and it sounds like you can do that with your income and a paid-for house.

You're in a good spot.

if we want to have a hobby also, that's okay. Cuz I have the I mean, I have these collectible hobbies, but they have nothing to do with my real net worth.

>> doing it for an ROI. >> not doing it for doing it because I Yeah, that's it. >> It's Dave Dave's It's a hobby. It's a hobby. >> It's a the healthiest form of addiction you can have. No, it's just a hobby.

That's it. It's It's There's nothing wrong with that. Uh Anna is in New York City. Hi, Anna.

How are you? I am good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I have a question.

Uh my husband and I are retired.

Uh we don't have any debt.

Uh we have a daughter, an only child, and we'd like to buy her an apartment.

We'd like to do that now while

Well, while we're still alive rather than let her get everything How much how much uh how much net worth do you guys have? What's the size of your nest egg?

Ooh, probably I'd say about 2 million

with our house. Mhm. Our house is paid

off, but so some of that would be uh, you know, not cash, but in cash about 1.7.

Okay, good for you. Well done.

Well done. And and how much will this apartment cost?

Uh, somewhere between maybe around 250 or 300,000, somewhere around there. All right. I would do that.

We can do that. >> You're going to pay cash for the apartment. There's no debt, right?

Nope. We don't want to Yeah, that's another question that I had. Would there be any advantage No. uh, to get No. No,

we don't want that. We don't want that's a disadvantage. Cuz then you're not giving her a blessing, you're giving her a curse.

Right. Mhm. Yeah, yeah, no, I we we don't want to do that. Right. Mhm.

Now, what I would do, um, I had a friend of mine that did something like this and he said he asked her to uh, sign a one-page letter promising to never borrow money.

Right. Mhm. So that she doesn't go get a boyfriend and refinance this to buy him a pizza store. Oh, oh, no. Oh, yeah. That happens every

day, right?

I I never thought of that, but I did think that maybe uh, you know, borrowing money just because maybe she mismanaged her own money. >> Yeah, that would work, too. Yeah, so no, you can't you you have to promise us.

It's not a legal contract, it's just a moral contract. It's to raise your right hand, sign a letter stating I will never borrow money again, Mom, and I'm going to use the fact that I have a free apartment to create wealth where I just

I don't have a house payment.

Mhm. Mhm. And how can we help her do that? Also, because I She lives at home

right now. She She had lost her job. She came and she moved back home. She now has a good job and >> What's her good job?

Well, she's been living here several months. It It pays a decent wage.

>> What's a decent wage? How much does she make? About 73,000 a year. Can she live in the

city making 73?

Um you can in Brooklyn. Oh, okay. Okay.

How about that? Yeah, just make sure she can afford the ongoing, you know, insurance, taxes, all of that plays a part, maintenance. >> But I mean she help her get on an every dollar budget and, you know, we'll send her a copy of the total We'll send her a copy of George's book on how to avoid all the traps and um and get with the every dollar budget and we'll help you guys get this started and then let her get back out there on her own two feet. But yeah, I want her to promise that she's not going to make a mess out of this blessing.

That's all I want. >> I bet the HOA over there is as much as a mortgage payment in the city.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

You ever wanted to see the person who's calling in and watch them ask the question or be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour. Live recordings with live

studio audiences and you can be in the audience and watch the Q&A happen cuz all the questions will come from the microphone on the floor. Experience live Q&A, raw raw confessions, crowd debates, local debt-free screams.

The team will be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim in April. We're

limiting this for production reasons to only about 300 seats a night. Last year we sold this out and we put it out there in 72 hours. It's just been out there a couple days. It's almost gone. If you want to come, grab your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or on YouTube. Rhonda is with us in Virginia

Beach. Hi Rhonda, how are you?

Hello, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi, recently just found out um my husband is in debt.

Um separate accounts. My name is not on

it. Um the main thing I want to know is judges are normally favorable on the other spouse's side if the debt was created secretly and in his own account and I'm not in

debt on my side. So, I was just wondering um have you heard any stories of judges making the other spouse help pay the debt that another spouse has created secretly?

Uh well, yeah, we've heard all the stories. I mean, for sure, there's a lot of this goes on, sadly. Okay, so how long have you been married?

A long time. Um over well over 15. Okay.

All right. Um we've always had separate accounts. We do have one joint >> Why did he deceive you and hide it from you?

Um because it's online gambling. Mhm.

And it's his his own account and I had to I had to ask about it.

Um >> Because he has a gambling problem. Okay.

And so, how how much has his gambling problem caused How much debt has it cost? Um 40,000?

And what does he make?

Um um quite a bit, about about 90. Yeah, and what do you make? Um

Um right now, I'm 42.

Okay. All right.

Well, I mean, at the core of this is not really the money issue. At the core of this is two things. One is you're married to a person who has a an addictive problem.

Right. He's got a gambling problem.

Okay? By definition, he is following all

of the behaviors of an addict. The actual definition.

Okay? One of those being that he's deceived, two is is that he's out of control.

Okay? Okay. And and so, when you have to lie to your spouse and you're out of control, bottom line, we're going to define you as an addict. Anybody in our world does that, okay? So, number one problem is you are married to a person who has an addiction.

Number two problem, um is that he has, as a part of that addiction, has lied to you and broken your trust and your heart with it.

Right. Okay. So, the only way that this goes

forward in a positive way, the only way you have a wonderful marriage at 20 years, you're at 15 now, is that he addresses the addiction openly with you, gets help, stops

gambling, gets a therapist, goes to Gamblers Anonymous, you guys sit down with your pastor and he's held accountable to never gamble again the rest of his life.

Right. And then when he does that, over time, the first 10 minutes he did that, he's been dry for 1 day, 2 days, 1 week,

well, he's not trustworthy yet, but when he's been dry for a year, you can start to trust him and that would be logical.

He and um you know, and he can't do anything that looks like violation of trust ever again the rest of his life because he he has you know, he has deceived his wife at a very deep level.

And you're pretty pissed and pretty hurt about that unless you're weird.

Right? >> No, I'm I'm not happy about that at all and to the point that I'm about to look into um

divorce. I was just worried about the judge making me >> The judge will not make you pay this.

>> The judge will not make you pay this. If you very unusual. I I mean, I'm not a judge and I'm not a lawyer, but very unusual that and the deception has nothing to do with it. It's just simply, "Hey, your honor, the reason I'm divorcing him is he's a gambling addict and he ran up a bunch of debt gambling that I didn't even know about." And and the judge is going to go, "Oh, he gets to pay that." I mean, that's kind of way That 99% of the time that's the way that's going to go down.

But his path his path to staying married

is complete transparency from this point forward, no hiding anything ever again, getting help, which involves admitting that I have a problem, and getting in a 12-step program like again like GA, Gamblers Anonymous, and getting one-on-one therapy to never do this again. And this is gambling addiction and lying to my wife is a part of it.

So, he has to act like that he had that you discovered cocaine in his bedroom.

Oh, trust me. Yes, that's exactly where I feel I've dealt with other not addiction myself, but I've lived with people with addiction and that's the exactly what I um thought of it. I'm like, "Oh, it's just like a drug addict." Yep. The one thing playing around with it here and there, but yes, definitely. I took it right out of the gate. >> to tell you now? He didn't. She found it.

Oh, no. I had to I asked.

>> Oh, you asked. He told you he He told you when you asked. >> were going.

He He found He He came out. It He came

out just asked how How is your credit going cuz I've keeping things separate.

I don't get to see that and he don't get to see mine um too much. But just every

once in a while checking in say, "How things going? How is your credit? Oh, you know, how are you doing on your savings?" And come to find out he depleted the savings and On top of going

to 40K in debt. Yeah. So, if if healing occurs and we stay married, um there'll be a period of time which he handles no money and you handle all of it, his and yours.

And then over time you'll start to handle it together. Never again will you act like roommates.

Right. Because the fact that you're running this separate is added it added to this. It made it worse. The lack of unity caused a lack of transparency.

Yeah, but if you're both if you're both looking at all our money is in a pile and all our bills are in a pile and we are both looking at all of them, then it's much harder for something like this to occur. Yeah, I'm definitely even if even been separate I still look at it as a major setback. >> it doesn't No no excuse, Rhonda. It's not the same. When it's all in one pile,

everybody sees everything. It's almost impossible for this crap to happen.

Whew. I'm kind of scared now. I'm done And that was my whole thing with me having a savings and paid off my cards, and now it'll make me think that the >> only reason you would The only reason you would allow it to be in one pile is if you're in control and or over time he becomes worthy of trust again because the last time he gambled was 5 years ago and he's dry, and we've had these healthy good marital discussions about our budget every month, and we both know where every dime

of our money is going. And if you did that for 5 years, you could start to not be scared.

Yeah.

And that's a healthy place to aim at if you guys are going to stay together. That's how you should do it. And I hope that's what works out. I hope it works out that way. But this is how people come back from the deception around people hiding debt and or come back from being married to an addict is you rebuild trust. Dr.

Henry Cloud was with us here this morning. I had lunch with him today, and he has a book out called Trust. And it's a how to lose it and how to rebuild it.

And that you know, these are the types of things. But lots of transparency, lots of extra layers of communication, over-communicating, never assume the other person knows something. Well, you should have known.

No, that's not that that's bull.

Everybody knows everything cuz it was said out loud. And the more of that you have, the more trust is built in any relationship, employer-employee,

husband-wife, parent-child, all of this works. From the pulpit in your church, transparency, extra levels of communication, reality is dealt with.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Tim and Shannon are on the debt-free

stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey

Solutions. Hey guys, how are you? Hi Dave, we're good. Great. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live?

Chicagoland suburb of Illinois. Love it.

Very cool. And how much debt have you two paid off? We've paid off just over $103,000.

>> Very cool. How long did that take? About 57 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Uh we fluctuated between 175 and about 200

ending. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? Uh I am a police officer. Mhm.

And I work in HR. Oh, very cool.

Excellent. Good job for both of you.

What kind of debt was the 103?

Uh it was the house. >> That was the house payment.

YOU ALL PAID FOR A HOUSE? >> WE DO. >> We do. And you're a police officer and HR director and you're not 150 years old. That's correct. How old are you two? I'll be celebrating my 40th in May. Love it. >> I'm 32. I love and you have a paid for stinking house. What's this house worth?

Uh just over 300, YEAH. WAY TO GO, YOU TWO. AWESOMENESS. How much in your

retirement nest eggs? So we were calculating that. We're 3 400,000.

>> All right, cool. So you're heading towards baby step millionaire in just a year or two. Yes, sir. Way to go, y'all.

I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

>> What caused you to be weird?

So it started during COVID when I rolled out with some help SmartDollar to our police department and we took it village-wide.

I was the training manager at the time and Shannon and I binged that baby step two. We were here joined you in May of 2021, but baby step seven we've been working on that the last 57 months following the blueprint of SmartDollar. For those of you that don't know SmartDollar is our Financial Peace University but for companies and for organizations, HR directors use it and people we have several police departments and first responders using it around the nation to put all their employees through it. So like you all put all their employees through, Costco put all their employees through our our you know Financial Peace University in essence.

It's a class and so you led the class at your police department. >> Yes, I've been in charge of that since since COVID. >> Well, thank you. Wow.

>> That's cool. So you not only got to see yourself get out of debt, you got a lot of your your guys that are out there and gals that are out there on the highways and byways putting their life at risk, they're getting their lives cleaned up. Yeah, we saw we saw a really strong benefit with it where we started with it just as the police department and then we got the whole village on board. So now we have our wastewater employees have access to it, our admin clerks, everybody, the entire city now has adopted SmartDollar.

>> Wow, it's a movement over there. Look at you, you're the you're the guy running the whole thing, man.

Well, that's so stinking cool. Yeah, and you know, with the police department, I always love hearing you guys do it in particular because it's also like we had we've had it with the military for years. And one of the things that in a high-stress environment like that is is the in in military world, they say combat readiness. Being ready to go into combat with your head clear, ready to do one thing is much better when all the

there's no debt stress at home. I'm not worried about my car being repoed, I'm not worried about my lights being cut off. And police officers is exact same thing. Yeah, the idea behind it is exactly that.

Yeah, trying to book some some side gig, yeah. Exactly.

>> Yeah, the whole thing. Wow. Wow. That's so cool. And so freedom I see the blue stripe shirt. Now I'm getting to the blue flag. Okay. Yep. All right. What's it say on there? Debt free family baby step seven. You did Hey! Custom made t-shirts just for today. So the leading SmartDollar, did that kind of put an onus on you guys to really get this house paid off faster? Like was that part of the story? We we we hit the deadline ahead of time but um there wasn't without bumps along the way.

Yeah, so um we were actually here in May of 2021 and did our baby step two debt free screen. >> Mhm. Um and after that we tried to start

a family and we're really struggling through that. So um during that period

we actually sought infertility treatment

and because we were able to complete baby step two, we were able to cash flow all of the infertility treatment and we're able to welcome our baby girl back in March of last year.

>> March of last Yeah.

Um, and so I think that really >> anything else in the whole story. Absolutely. So, she's our why and I think after having her really kind of put things into perspective for us to really just knock out the rest of the debt that we had and wanted to set her up for a future that we weren't really familiar with ourselves growing up. I love it.

Yeah. Yeah, change your family tree and while you're at it be an example to all your compadres, all the people you work >> and I saw that there was such a void in the financial wellness aspect along this journey that I went ahead and took part in your financial coaching and have since started coaching first responders across the country.

>> Oh, wow. >> In workshops and one-on-one to where a lot of employers yet have not really adopted a true financial wellness program and this is giving them some sort of hope. Yeah. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. It's incredible.

All right, now that you've done all of that, I mean, you have not only got out of debt, you also cash flowed the fertility and then on top of that we paid off the house and now you're coach helping other people and you've led the whole village, not just the police department through Smart Dollar, the whole thing. Now, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Sticking to the budget is the biggest thing. Um, hands down. >> Easier said than done, isn't it?

Absolutely. It is and especially in our world of first responders, we we crave we thrive control. That's what we have to have. So, what amazes me when I hear a first responder that doesn't take control of their money with a budget and a lot of times that's where we start in these trainings.

It's like if you can just start telling your money where to go, you're going to want to put it in a lot of different places once you start seeing where it's going. So, So budget is the most crucial part. Yeah, being proactive with it. You know, that's interesting.

I hadn't thought about it. So much of your training is about controlling all the variables from a safety perspective so that no one gets hurt. >> And policies and procedures and law. Everything guides our do you start your squad car, you start the fire truck, everything is a policy procedure and everything.

A checklist, yeah. >> Just put a policy and procedure in place for your money. Wow. Just apply what you're used every day.

Yep. You know, that that's very interesting. Wow, very cool. >> Have you been seeing stories from the people in your village that are following the plan also becoming debt free cuz it's weird to talk about money with your co-workers.

>> It is. And you're out there with you. That is the difficulty in trying to get a a chief of police or a fire chief that to even say, "Hey, you know what? Come on in and talk about this piece." For so long it is that taboo topic, but uh it's the quiet conversations afterwards.

It's it's after you meet in a workshop then see that person sticks around in the back of the class and then comes up and it says, "Tim, can I ask you a couple questions?" And it we're still working on it, but the the fact that we're all trying is what really helps cuz the the these first responders need that.

Well, thank you for being such a service to your village and so proud of y'all.

Thank you. >> you're not even stinking 40 years old. You're almost millionaires, got babies coming, everything's happening. This is What what better life can we have?

>> I I This is the life we always dreamed of and it wouldn't be possible without following the baby steps. I'm just so proud of you. Thanks for embracing Smart Dollar and and I'm just I'm the I'm thrilled it worked. I know it worked, but I'm always I'm I'm never surprised that it worked, but I'm always thrilled that it worked, you know.

>> but it works yes and it's worth it. It is hard. Uh it's it's just easier than being broke and stressed Amen. and freaking out for 25 years, you know, instead I got this 20 months of really having to lean in on this and now you got your stinking house paid off, man.

It's unreal. Yeah, it was it was December was our last payment which again was ahead of schedule. So we've had a couple of months here and even standing here and getting to meet with the Smart Dollar team and spend some time. It's just you're still taking that deep breath because you you know, like you said, before 40 years old no. >> Still surreal, yeah. have so many options and choices we get to make now.

What's the big thing you're going to do to celebrate?

This is the year This is the year of traveling. Oh, where are you going?

What's the big trip? This was a big one.

This was This was a big one. Um we're we're spending my 40th in Florida, so we're taking the whole family down there. So we got a couple other things, but at the end of the day that's what we remind ourselves, money was never the goal. Money is the tool to get to the goal.

>> Got you. All right. Are we going to put uh the baby into the debt-free scream?

We'd like to. All right, fine. And name and age? This is Keely, and she will be

one next week. >> I love it. So proud of y'all. Tim and Shannon and Keely from the Chicago, Illinois area took their whole village through the all the first responders, all the police department, and then everybody else paid off their own home.

Debt-free house and everything. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream!

Three, two, ONE. WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

THAT IS ONE CUTE BABY. >> TALK about paying it forward, baby.

That's worth getting out of debt right there. >> A lot of paying it forward there. >> That's That's a triple hero.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But, do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But, you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 5:5, "It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay."

John Adams said, "There are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt." Sally is in Philadelphia. Hi,

Sally. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. Thank you. Um I first wanted to thank you so much. Uh with your guidance and the grace of God, I was able to pay off all my personal debt many years ago. Wow. And now, yeah.

And and now, um my question is, how do I

view business debt?

Because I was able to get out of my personal debt and my fa- my sorry, my brother is in um uh a a farming industry. So, he was not able to have a lot of money. So, he and I decided about 5 years ago to buy uh a

farm together.

Uh the farm is is such that it's it's an orchard. so that it at least takes 5 to 7 years before um return can occur. So, for these last 5 years, I've been basically bankrolling it myself with my cash and um getting a

mortgage through Farm Credit, and we did get a line of credit.

And now that line of credit is um I it's

due. And either I can choose to pay um use it

e- get a a full loan for that,

or I can get a pledged line from my

{quote} {unquote} fun money that I was able to also save on the side, which is different than my retirement.

Okay, so you have you have personal investments equal to what?

Uh current Does that include the mortgage on the farm? >> No, personal investments.

You said fun money and retirement.

>> Yes. So, you have a retirement account, and then you have a non-retirement investments that are how much?

Yes, my non-retirement investments are about $440,000.

>> And what is your line of credit?

Uh my line of credit is only 120,000.

>> Pay it off today.

Okay. And um the the question, sir, is do I pay it off by selling all my investments and taking the capital gains? >> Or use the Okay, pledge line of credit.

>> Yeah, I'm not borrowing money.

Okay. We stopped borrowing money until we got to apple orchard, and then we started again.

Yes. Stop it. So, what's the other mortgage on the apple orchard?

Uh three I think it's like 360. But, the

thing is >> And it hasn't made a profit yet.

No, sir, because it takes 5 to 7 >> Yeah, how long have you been screwing with this thing?

Uh 5 years.

So, it should be starting now.

Yes, sir. In uh next year is hopefully when we're going to start having money coming in to be able to pay off all this debt and not incur any more debt at all.

And please tell me the projections are ridiculously good next year after you put 5 years of alligator in this.

Yes, sir. It's actually quite It's quite great. So like how much you think you're going to make profit next year?

Uh well, after the following year it's going to be another 550,000 coming in.

Um out of that it's going to be about 120 in um in cost.

Okay, so you can pay off the mortgage out of the profits next year.

Yes, sir. That's That's the goal is to get out of debt as quickly as possible once the money comes in. Yeah, you don't need the money off of the orchard. You did this Both of you did it as a side gig and you have funded it. I assume with your brother you have clear documentation that you're getting all the money you put into it back before he starts putting money in his pocket.

Uh well, yeah, actually we're in a 50/50 cuz he's doing all the work on the vineyard, right? I mean on the on the orchard. He's the one that's doing all the um the the on the ground work.

>> So the only way the debt gets paid is 50/50.

Your 50% pays off the debt?

No, no. The We first pay off the debt, but then after that everything's 50/50.

Oh, okay. So he doesn't get any money until the debt is paid.

Um that's a great question. The way that I view it is that he's putting in the money now by working on it.

So it would be equal >> you've made are equal to his labor essentially?

Okay, see this is what I'm worried about. You guys don't have a You guys don't have a clear plan for when this the thing does start becoming profitable. How quickly you are made whole.

And And I'm okay with that because I'm thinking of this as a long-term investment. >> you're already 5 years in and made nothing.

Yes, sir. Yeah. >> Yes, sir. So yeah, you But you guys really need to think about and and have it detailed out exactly how that you clear up this debt and then then but you know, we don't just start raking chips off the table here while there's still problems.

Mhm. I mean, that you got a $360,000 problem and you're getting ready to pay off this line of credit and you need to recoup that. The debt now is owed to you.

Yes, sir. That has to be paid back to you because you just used your personal money to do that. Otherwise, this is you know, we're starting to value his labor at about $300,000 a minute if we're not careful. Yeah, and and that's basically No, that's you know, that's basically what, you know, a consultant would be charging in in this situation.

$300,000 a minute?

No, no, not a minute. Sorry. No, not a minute. I was like, "Wow, I'm in the wrong business." Yeah, so uh yeah, so my point is is that you need to you guys have to have a real uh forced ranking of what happens to the cash when it starts coming in.

First, we recoup the you put the money in back in your pocket for this line of credit that you pay off today.

Do you ever recoup the money you put in earlier? And then we pay off the 360

before he starts making $100,000 a year in out of apples.

We need to get all of that cleared up and then we can split 50/50 after that.

And if your 50% is due to the money you put in earlier, that's okay. If you don't recoup that, that's okay. That's your investment and your return is on the cash flow after that. That's all fine. But when where the way people end up getting sideways in these things is um they don't have real good clear detailed

explanations that they're both aligned to on where the cash goes all as it goes

down the list of priorities.

And um you're very generous and open-handed with this and he works hard, so I want him to get some out of it. That's fine. Just build that generosity or that open-handedness into the clarity and into the decision that you guys make.

Interesting. Lisa is in Auburn, Alabama.

Hi Lisa, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I'm a single parent and I have a 6-year-old boy and I'm in step two of the baby steps and I'm just wondering

I'm worried that it's going to take me about 10 years to pay off my debt and I'm wondering if I should go ahead and

basically buy some play gym equipment for our backyard so he has something to do. He's an only child and he just gets

too much screen time right now but I know that will delay me paying off my debt.

How much debt do you have, honey?

110. On what?

>> Other than my mortgage.

It's 75k student loans and then 9,000 in

a personal loan and the rest is credit cards, alimony taxes and medical. Yeah.

What do you do What do you do for a living?

I'm actually a tax accountant. Okay, so what do you make?

Right now 86. Why would it take you 10 years to pay this off?

Well, I guess with my minimum payments I just wasn't sure if I could pay off more than 10,000 a year unless my income goes

drastically up. >> Yeah, you're going to have to get your income up and you're going to have to get your lifestyle down and scorched earth you're not doing a detailed sacrificial budget or you'd have more room than you've got.

Okay. Um I have I I do have every dollar. It's just my debt payments right now are about 40% of my take home pay.

Okay. All right. And what are you talking about spending on playground equipment?

Really really just getting a fence for our backyard and getting like um just a swing set or just something back there so that he can actually enjoy our backyard. How old is he?

>> Um he's six. Okay. I'll tell you what we just did, Lisa. My wife went on Facebook Marketplace and in these Facebook groups, they are giving this stuff away.

Just hoping someone will pick it up. You don't need to go buy him a new play set, you know, for a thousand dollars to make him happy. Just go get something real cheap off Facebook and he'll be just happy He'll be happy with a cardboard box. I I'm a little We're not getting him a cardboard box.

We're going to get him a nice thing off of Facebook Marketplace for just pen a few pennies here or there. Literally, people want it out of their backyard.

I don't know. Right. Just I'm I'm guess I'm old school, but I'm just like, "Don't leave the yard." There's an idea.

>> They've had an electric fence growing up. He knew not to go past it.

>> have a yard.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

This is The Ramsey Show.

The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to actually be part of the show. Ask your burning question live.

>> Finally win that money argument in your house. My mom occasionally asks us to borrow money. >> That's a no all the way around. I'm a spender, he's a saver. >> I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known. You do a pre-prenup? What's a pre-prenup? >> I don't know. I thought there'd be something.

The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you.

>> There's always something you can do to better your situation.

>> We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

I'm really, really proud of you. It's awesome. >> That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Fairwinds Credit Union studio in the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsay Show. We are here to help you. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. Open phone lines at88255225.

Jennifer is going to kick us off in Colorado Springs. What's going on, Jennifer? >> Hi. Um, I was calling because I wanted

to know how I can save money or make

money as a stay-at-home mom um, who has

no access to money. My fiance is the one that is in charge of all the financial aspects of our lives. Um, and anytime I need any type of money, um, I have to ask for it. So, that's my question. How can I make or save money without

any other form of accessing money? I >> I don't think that is the solution to this problem. And you know that, too.

This is a band-aid that you have to go make money as a stay-at-home mother because he doesn't give you any access.

How long has this been going on?

>> Um, it's always been on and off. Um, since I became a stay-at-home mom, 6 years ago. >> 6 years.

>> Yes. >> Goodness gracious. Okay. Uh, when you say he controls the finances, you have no access to the bank accounts.

>> No, not none whatsoever. If I need money for groceries, for the kids, for myself,

um, then I have to ask for it and it has to be the exact amount that I'm spending. >> Okay. Okay. And Jennifer, I'm sure throughout six years you have asked him

for access, correct?

>> Um, yeah. I've asked him for money for access and I've asked him for maybe >> What does he say when he when you're like, "Hey, I need access to our checking. I need a debit card. I need >> I need to be able to to live." What does he say? >> It's 100% no. if I want. Um, he can give

me some sort of allowance. Um, but 100%

no access to his account.

>> What's causing you to stay in this relationship besides the obvious? You guys have kids together and everything, but what what has caused you to be in functioning like this for six years?

>> Honestly, um, I'm not too sure.

>> You'd be better off getting alimony and child support. At least that's forced through the courts and you can do what you want with the money without having an adult chaperone.

>> I've I've heard that before. I've been told that before. >> Yeah. So, Jennifer, you're in a pretty toxic relationship that's probably goes beyond money. >> This is financial abuse.

>> Is it? >> There's no other way to say it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're two adults that are in basically a marriage. You're not legally married, but you have kids together. You've been together for six years. one of you is a stay-at-home parent and you don't have there there's no shared

equity in the household.

>> He doesn't trust you. >> You're basically a child to him

>> is how he's is how he's functioning in the relationship. And so, uh, >> at least the babysitter gets paid without having to ask.

>> This is the crazy part that that he's made you think this is normal and it's okay and it's just, well, this is just the way he is. He's a little controlling sometimes. And then his thing is like at me asking is like me telling him, but it doesn't

feel that way, you know. Um, so

>> no, it doesn't feel that way because that's not that's not true. So my I want to know from you, Jennifer, what's causing you to stay with this man?

>> I'm I'm not too sure. I think maybe the

children. >> Okay. >> If I'm being completely honest. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's a

bigger question for you Jennifer on what do you want life to look like in the next two years 5 years 10 years for you

and that's a really really scary um question I think always

because what the answer is what I think you know what the answer is is going to mean a lot of hard and new change uh in

your life and so um if I were you how

How old are your kids?

>> Um, 64 and one.

>> Oh gosh. Okay. Okay. Um,

if I were if I woke up in your shoes, yes, you're going to need money um to be able to get out. And >> and so I would start looking probably

today. When here's the horrible thing is is if he finds out, what's he going to say? Does he tell you to go get a job?

Is he like, "You need to go make your own money." or would he what would his

response be for you having a job?

>> Oh, no. No, no hesitation. He says if you want to get a job, go ahead. Um, that's I it doesn't bother me. The only thing is you'd have to pay for child care because you're the one that wants the job. Um, >> whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, you have to get a job and pay for child care on your own because that was your decision.

>> This man is insane.

>> Do you hear yourself?

>> I do. Does he ver abuse you just verbally and emotionally or is there more?

>> No. Um there isn't more.

>> Well, there's enough where that came from. >> Well, so yeah, you're going to um I I

would be finding a way to make money, Jennifer. You need to set up your own checking account and you need to have a plan on what does this look like to get out of this relationship. depending on the state. There's some type of common law marriage, you know, depending on and I think it's state by state, but even if you decided to leave in some states, I don't know Colorado's laws that you actually it could be seen as a basically a common law marriage, >> you'd be entitled to assets.

>> Yes.

right? If you guys have a house together, cars, checking account, retirement accounts, all of it. So I would look into that kind of thing if leaving which is what either this needs to be fixed on a radical level which you can't fix him um but either the relationship has to have a complete 180 of full a full repentance and

um him pleading for your forgiveness because of what he's done to you.

Horrible. It's horrible. Or you're going to have to make a better decision for yourself, Jennifer, you know.

>> Yeah. So, so yeah, I would be opening up my own checking account. If there's a way to work from home for a little bit and get an income in >> um and create some stability and then whatever that next move is for you, at least that gives you a >> pad to step out on >> um so you're not just drowning with no money, right? Having some resources is going to be helpful. >> Um yeah. >> Do you have any friends, family, church

that could help support you through this? I do, but it's something I don't

wish to um burden on them.

>> No, it's not a burden. >> You're not a burden. If they love you, they will be so happy that you ask for help in your time of need.

>> Yeah. This would be the time to get as many resources as possible around you, Jennifer. >> And you believe lies too long that you're a burden, that no one else has to deal with this. It's just my burden to bear. And it's all lies that he's put in your mind.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And you believe them for so long that you don't know another way.

You don't know another life. But I think you deserve better. Don't you?

>> I totally do. I totally think I deserve better. And I think that's another reason why I haven't stepped out is because I will literally walk out with what I have on my back.

>> Yeah. And that's where friends, family, and community really step up too, >> right? >> Um so I would be Yep. leaning into those conversations. And I would I would start thinking of who you want to be, Jennifer. I mean, honestly, when you look at just the world and the what you can contribute um from a career

perspective is going to be huge. And Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. We're going to give you a copy of that um just to just to get your mind to

those wheels start to turn cuz if you have not been in the workforce for, you know, an extended period of time, sometimes you forget of like, okay, what do I enjoy? what am I passion about? How can I help? But that's a that's a really big answer to a really urgent problem

though. So here the urgency in us that this relationship is is pretty damaged and you don't need to be part of it if it continues down the road like this.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

CJ's in Phoenix up next. Welcome to the Ramsey Show, CJ. How can we help?

>> Yes. How y'all doing? Thank you'all for hosting me. Um, I wanted to uh get your

input and uh ways to get out of uh my

debt with the credit cards, student loans, and a car loan. Um, and my house

payments. I think when I first got the house um I was making a certain amount of money and I thought it was a good idea to get this two-story house but um

per paycheck it's been uh the house payments uh what I paid to escrow is a

whole check and >> so it's half your income >> check half my income. Yes, sir.

>> Your take home pay. Okay. >> My take home. >> What do you make? I make uh before taxes

about 103,000.

>> Okay. Are you single?

>> Married. >> Married. Okay. Is your spouse working outside of the home or at home?

>> Uh she uh we just she just had a baby.

Um so she's not working currently.

>> Congrats. That's exciting.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. What's your total debt?

>> My total debt with the house payments I

want to say is >> not including the mortgage. Just give us the consumer. You said car loan, credit card, student loans.

>> About 110,000.

>> Woo. How much is the car loan?

>> The car loan is only 5,000. The the the bigger one is uh the credit cards and the student loans. >> What do those break out to be? How much are the student loans?

>> The student loan is about 40,000 on the

government one and 5,000 on Texas loan.

I don't I think that's the private one.

>> Okay. And the credit card comes out to be uh altogether about 60,000.

>> 60,000. How many credit cards do you have?

>> It um five between five it's the 60,000.

>> Okay.

>> Well, what did the 60k get spent on in the credit cards? And like over what period of time was this?

It's been over the last I want to say about year and a half where

um once I I got the

um the clinical coordinator position um

not that the pay I I came home as a full-time uh nurse and to get this

position and I was doing a travel assignment so I was getting paid more.

Um, so that's how I thought in my mind

that I was just going to stay uh together. I mean, for a good amount of time traveling, but then we had our first kid and I was, you know, off of

home and >> so your income went down, but your spending stayed high. The lifestyle creep never went away and so you were just spending on the cards. >> So the so the house payments um was

taking you know the one payment and to

you know other stuff. speak directly in your phone, CJ. We're having a hard time hearing you. >> Oh, sorry. Okay. The um so, uh once the

house pay once I came full-time and the house payment was half of what, you know, half of one one take one check per month. Um that's when I was, you know, I'll put it on the card and hopefully I'll, you know, be able to pay it. And it was just Oh, >> you're putting the mortgage on the card.

>> Not the mortgage. It was just uh everything else was. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> Oh, because you spent one full paycheck on the mortgage and then anything else lifestyle just went on the card.

>> Yes, ma'am. Okay. >> Are you and your wife ready to have a very different life?

>> Yes, sir. We we talked about it and we always listen to the show and we always just talk about we need to do better and the with the credit cards. Uh most of them are through through Chase Bank and I did call to tell them that I can't pay

anymore. So, they put me on on on the plan, but even with that is about just

Chase alone is about 1,200 that I'm paying. Um, >> okay. With with everything, CJ, with you're paid twice a month with the mortgage, the credit card bills, your regular utilities, I mean, everything.

I'm assuming you're coming up short every month if you stayed current with all of your debt. >> I do come short. I did pick up this year. I did pick up a home health job which uh usually it's about $400 or $500

more per month >> and that gives me the ability like that 500 to pay >> that's what you need >> to say to keep your head above water to but but that's it though there's nothing extra to be throwing at this debt to get out of it. It's just that's just to pay the minimum payments. >> Yes ma'am. That that's just monthto month and you know it's >> Yeah. How many hours are you doing that extra job? Uh that's per patient. Okay.

Um right now it's I have about three four patients. Sometimes I'll tell them my days off and they'll try to give me, you know, PRN uh jobs to just go see a

patient, but they don't come often. It's just >> it's not reliable. >> So, I mean, that's a good thing to have because I feel like it pays well, but I would have another side hustle because yes, CJ, it's something it's it's got to shift from the income perspective. I think you guys need to cut your lifestyle if you haven't already.

>> Yeah. No eating out, not no investing, no saving. All we're doing is trying to pay down the smallest debt. So take that smallest credit card that you have and we're going to knock that out.

Or if it's the car loan, that's the smallest debt or the student loan. We're knocking that balance out first and make minimums on the rest.

That's called the debt snowball method, >> which will either be that $5,000 private student loan or your $5,000 car or if

there's a if there's a credit card smaller than 5,000, you're going to attack that first.

>> Okay. >> Is there anything you could sell to come up with some cash to speed this up?

>> Everything else we I've looked and it would just be just minimal stuff uh shoes, but you know, it's >> What is the car worth? You said you owe five on it. What is it worth? it it's worth about 3,000. It's a Jeep, but the

miles it's I have I think right now it's

about 155,000 miles on it. So,

>> um how long ago did your wife have the baby?

>> Uh a couple months ago.

>> Okay. You know, I would have a goal for you guys cuz again, $500 a month shifts.

You know, you guys, it it it's so helpful. So, I'm thinking for her, what

could she do from home to make 500 bucks

a month? And that could include selling stuff. She could make a part-time job of selling your shoes, CJ, making some money, you know? But for real, like, what what what can she do? And she doesn't have to start today. But maybe you guys look up and say, "Okay, you're going to start working CJ extra. You're cutting lifestyle." And then we're going

to look up and I don't know, I'm making this up. June, she's going to start doing something through the end of the year, bringing home an extra five to a,000$500 to $1,000. Like, I think as

much income as you guys can get in rolling in, which is going to be exhausting. It's going to be so hard. It's so frustrating. >> But that's going to make you guys get out of debt that much faster because it's not fun, right, during this process of sacrifice. But you guys either have to do it really intensely and just go

all in or you kind of just dabble around

the edges and you guys will keep it around for another four to five years.

>> Cuz here's the truth. If we can if we continue at this pace and you can only throw a hundred or 200 bucks of this debt, you're going to be in debt for the rest of your life. And so that's why we're saying six figure debt. You need a massive six-figure income to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time.

2, three, four years. That's the goal here of intense sacrifice, not 20 years of just trying to make our way through and make the minimum payments while the interest racks up. So that's why we want you to have a sense of urgency to get this income up. And you've got a lot of skills that are very valuable.

And so if you can go make 150 grand, 200 grand, and she makes another 50 grand, even if the kids are in daycare for a season, they will survive.

>> Okay? So getting our income up, >> that's the key. getting expenses down as much as we can, but even then, your income has to go up in order to knock this out quickly.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, hang on the line, CJ. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, along with Every Dollar. That's our budgeting tool. And you and your wife tonight, you're going to lay out here's our next paychecks.

Here's all of our expenses. Here's our plan to make the most of every dollar.

>> Yeah. And um we always caution against

moving. I mean, honestly, because it's such a big expense. It's it's like one of the biggest things to uproot your family out of a home. But

I would consider it's half of your income and unless your main job, you're

going to see significant raises in the next 1 2 3 years. Um if there's not and

it's looking pretty plateau, I mean, golly, that's an extra $2,000 if you get it under that to that 24 that 25%.

>> That's an extra two grand a month that you're, you know, that you could save.

um if you guys changed your housing situation, which I know is that's a big ask, >> but it changes the whole timeline. It does. And you guys can become homeowners again once we're not broke, but right now that 50% mortgage is it's eating your lunch and hurting your ability to pay down the debt. So, hang on the line, CJ. We're going to get you those resources. We wish you guys the best with this debt payoff.

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Up next, we've got Joseph in El Paso, Texas. What's going on, Joseph?

>> Hi. Uh, how's it going?

>> Great. How can Rachel and I help today?

>> Hi. So, uh, I have a question. Well, I

guess a loaded question regarding a whole life insurance policy that I took out. I think that's what it's called.

>> Okay. >> Um, uh, I took it out when I was 19. I'm

22 now. So, it's been, I would say two

years and a half, almost three years, would be three years in June. And I've put in a lot of money into it. And I've I've read a lot of stuff online, uh, and just, you know, gone back and forth. and I've gotten like sort of scared that I could have done something a lot better with uh my retirement, with

my future and whatnot.

>> How much have you put in so far? You said a lot of money. What does that mean? >> So, I in total with payments and everything, I've put in 21,000.

>> Um and uh right now there's like a

surrender charge of like four grand or something like that that will go away to zero in like a couple couple years.

>> That's how they like it. They want to keep you on the hook and go, "Man, if you just hang on, this thing, you got to really ride it out." Who sold this policy to you? It was someone you knew, right? >> Yeah. So, um, my mom was in the business

of selling it, but it wasn't her. Like, she left it. She's now doing something else. But, uh, one of her close friends,

you know, you know, talked to me about it. And I mean, it all sounds good and all. Um, I got one that has that's for 300,000 with long-term care in it. Um, I

had a lot of like medical problems growing up. Uh, and so some of them

still affect me to this day. So I kind of like just made a decision like I want to protect myself and in the case that I get hurt, you know, I have that like long-term care available to me. Um, so

uh yeah, I uh I'm currently on path to

go to uh medical school um and hoping to

start this summer assuming everything goes well. If not, you know, reapply this summer. Um, but yeah, that's that's

where I'm at at the moment.

>> Okay. Well, I'll give you kudos of of

doing something. You know, there's some 19-year-olds that don't do anything financially. So, the fact that you are at least looking thinking about even like long-term care insurance, which we usually don't tell people they need till they're >> they're >> 60. Yeah. Um, but they off but they sold you a pack of goods, Joseph, and Yeah.

you and you bought in. So, >> the good news is you're only 22. So, I know it feels like, "Oh my gosh, I blew $21,000," which is a lot of money. But

in the grand scheme, a lot of people hang on to these policies for a decade or two and then go, "Oh my gosh, I need to get out of this." So, yes, it was a bad idea. No, you don't need to feel shame. This happens every day from, you know, to well-meaning people, from close family, friends that are looking to make a commission off your back. Because the truth is you don't need life insurance unless someone is depending on your income. So, do you have kids or a wife?

>> No. Um, uh, you know, hopefully not, at

least for another couple of years. Um, I

think it's going to be a stressful in school and whatnot. So, uh, I'm with my parents at the moment. I Okay.

>> Yeah. So, you really don't need life insurance, Joseph, >> at all. And if you want it, get term life in place and then cancel the whole life policy. Surrender it.

>> Mhm. >> And don't listen to whatever they say on the phone. They're going to say, "No, no, no. You need to keep it. Here's why. It's a really good idea to hang on to this. You just need to firmly say, "No, thank you. I want to surrender the policy." >> And then you can start investing, Joseph. Right. That's really where you're going to find um lots of growth

with your money. Not in a whole life policy. A whole life policy basically bundles insurance and investing together in one account with a crappy rate of return versus keeping it separate. So getting term life that has no investments attached to it. It's literally just a term policy a 20 30 40

year whatever you choose but you don't need one. And then you can look at investing. and investing um what your money will do just even in an index fund

or a mutual fund is going to be probably

what six seven times x what you'll

probably get in a standard whole life

policy the growth so um >> instead of 2% return it could be 12% or more >> and so I would get out of this thing ASAP getter term life if you feel like you want it or need it it's going to be a fraction of the price you know whole life is 5 to 15 times more expensive than term. And so I would contact our friends at Xander. They can help you out. You can jump on to xander.com or give them a call 800 3564282

and they'll help walk you through that.

And I hope you qualify. You said you have some health issues. So I don't know what bearing that's going to have on, you know, the underwriting for your life insurance policy. But if you're worried about this becoming a problem in the future, it is wise to get your term life now and get it for a longer period like 25 years.

If you know, hey, I'll be, you know, almost 50 by the time this policy expires, which means the kids are out of the house. My spouse is going to be okay.

You don't need it for your whole life.

>> Would it be a good idea for me to wait until that surrender charge goes away?

>> Just it's it's a sunk cost fallacy. I would just go, "All right, I'm gonna pay whatever I need to pay for the penalty and move on with my life." You'll get the cash value out, which I don't know what that will be. You can do the math and figure that out, but just take what you can and move on with your life. I wouldn't hang on to it for another day.

>> Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. It's just uh I don't

know. It just I guess it sounded real nice. I mean, they they showed me like a bunch of like returns like >> Yeah, I would too. If I was selling whole life insurance, I would make it look like the best thing since sliced bread. But the truth is, as you found online, literally no financial adviser with, you know, that isn't just secretly an insurance salesman would say this is a good idea for a 19-year-old.

>> It's a horrible product and almost everyone in the financial space knows that except for people that sell it. So, >> and they go by sketchy names like I'm a wealth strategist and they're secretly just whole life insurance salespeople.

So, just I know it sounded good, but >> and they mix up the names. It'll be universal. They have all these >> index universal life and then they have like whiteboards where they'll draw and you're going to basically become your own bank and you can take your own money out tax-free by taking out a loan against your policy and paying yourself the interest. That's what the wealthy do. Don't listen to any of this crap.

>> No. >> So, I'm sorry you fell for it, my man.

Brody is in Lexington, Kentucky up next.

What's going on, Brody?

>> Hey, George Rachel, thank you guys so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's your question?

So, um, my question is me and my wife have had our, uh, we got a car that's overheating at this point. It looks like it's going to cost more to fix it than the car is actually worth. And we're wondering if, um, if you guys would recommend what's the wisest financial decision, whether it's to just sell it or whether it's to try and trade it into dealership or what the best option would be in this case. >> So, what's the car worth and what's the repair going to cost?

Uh, I think it's worth according to the private sale and Kelly Blue Book, it's somewhere in the realm of 4,000 is is like the value, but the way it's overheating right now, it's barely drivable. So, I don't know if we'd be able to sell it for hardly if we're even that. >> So, 4,000 if it's in good shape. It's still running properly.

>> Um, yes. >> Okay. Have you got quotes from multiple mechanics?

>> Uh, we have not. We actually tried reaching out to a couple of other mechanics uh other than the one that we had it at for like a few months and uh

most other mechanics said they don't work on Volvos. They recommended the mechanic we already had it at.

>> Okay. What did they say the repair cost will be?

>> Uh 6,900 roughly.

>> Goodness gracious. >> Oh man. >> Do you guys have any money saved that you could use to buy something else?

>> Um we do. We have um we have over we

have over 40,000 in all of our accounts uh together. So we could we could buy another vehicle. We're just trying to figure out how to minimize our losses on this one. >> I mean, I think it's going to be one of those the dealership buys it for scraps and they give you a,000 bucks.

>> Okay, >> that's the truth. If it really is a $7,000 repair, >> I know. That's why I'd love a second opinion if you can find one. I know that you may. I know you guys have tried, but >> yeah, there's there's probably other mechanics that specialize in Volvos and European vehicles, and so you might need to find I would at least get one more before you give up on it. But at that point, buy a reasonable car. Make sure that all the vehicles in your life are less than half of your annual income.

Pay cash. Don't get hosed. Don't buy brand new. So, what are you thinking of buying?

>> Um, so we haven't really thought much about uh about what we're buying next. I mean, we like old Toyotas just because they've had a better track record for our family. >> Um, something like that.

>> And check out um, yeah, Christian Automotive Brothers, Christian Brothers.

Um, because they do they're they're a great >> Oh, yeah. If you got one in your area, I'd reach out to them for sure. But good luck with this, man. Cars are just one of those things and it's they depreciate. They things go wrong. So, I would just do the best with what you got and you got plenty of money. So, this is a solvable problem and uh grieve the car. Say goodbye.

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to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. Pam

is in Columbia, South Carolina up next.

Pam, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. >> Hey, how can we help?

Um, well, I currently work 70 hours a

week making 83,000 total with 61,000 of that being my full-time job. Um, and I have been offered a position for $108,000.

>> Awesome. um as the full-time position.

Um my dilemma is my full-time job did

pay for my student loans

and I would owe my full-time employer

$5,250 um at departure.

>> All right. >> Um and I don't have $5,250.

Um >> how much do you have? >> So I'm just kind of wondering a way to navigate that. Well, they would keep my last paycheck, which would be around 2,000. Um, and then

other than that, I have $1,000 for the

emergency fund and I have $1,600 set aside to because I'm speaking at a conference in May. >> So, that's your travel, lodging, all of that.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, well, I'm wondering, would

your new employer be willing to cover the gap almost like a sign on bonus if you explain this to them?

>> Yeah, that I don't know. I don't consider that option. >> I would reach out and do it very kindly and just say, "Hey, I'm really excited about this position. There's one snafu.

When I leave this employer, I owe them this much money because of the student loan payoff. Um, is this something that you guys would be willing to cover as part of this new job?" Okay. >> And just see what they say >> because it'll be what? 3,000. Is that what you said? >> That you'll be left after your paycheck.

>> Yeah, they're a little over 3,000.

>> Yeah. >> Are you relocating for this position?

>> No. >> Okay. >> Well, and the 1,600 is not till May. And

you could >> if you you know Yeah. And if the Yep.

And if the um employer you're the new

employer, if you ask them and they're like not comfortable with 3,000, you could say, you know, even 2,000. I mean, I would throw I would throw any cash I had to get out because you can build that back up pretty quick with this new salary.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Within your first paycheck. >> Yeah. The only thing I thought about with the 1,600 is like how am I going to cover my bills with them keeping my last paycheck? I was thinking that between the two. How are you going to float that positions?

because it'll be about three weeks between paychecks because they're on a different pay week than what I currently >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you'll need that buffer, too, for sure. >> I would hang on to it because I don't want you going into debt over this.

>> Yeah. >> The goal is to just try to cash flow it.

Can you talk to your current employer about basically paying it back by a certain date, even after you're gone?

>> I I'm given 30 days after departure is what the contract says.

>> Okay, great. And is your new employer okay with a later start date?

>> Because that's the other option is you go, "Hey, I can't start until this >> with that." >> Okay. I mean, I would explain to them say, "Hey, either I have to start at this later date so I can pay this off or

if you guys could cover the difference, I can start earlier." >> Okay. Yeah, I would definitely be willing to open that conversation because I I don't want to go into debt.

I've been working really hard to get out of debt. Um, but the idea of making that

much more money to be able to out

>> it's stressful and it's, you know, it's part of these employer benefits.

Sometimes there are strings attached where they go, well, I don't want to cover your student loans and you just leave us immediately, which is kind of what's happening here. So, that's why they have these rules in place. But, you got this new great income. I think you're going to pay your debt off in no time.

And remember, do not allow lifestyle creep to happen with your new salary. You're going, "Wow, I can afford more now." No, we're going to use all of this to attack our debt and actually build some wealth for our life. Thanks for the call. Sam is in Los Angeles.

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling because I'm trying to see if I should move to another city

that has a cheaper cost of living in order to afford my own place. SL, is it

smart for me to get my own place? is uh I'm right I'm single and so I'm just trying to figure out what the smartest thing for me to do.

>> Yeah. I I would say it's less about your marital status and more about financially where you are when it comes to buying a home. Are you um do you have consumer debt?

>> I have no debt thanks to you guys.

>> Good for you. That's great.

>> And I recently paid off my mom's parent plus loan that she took out for me. So >> Oh my gosh, Sam. Well done.

>> That's amazing. Thanks to you guys.

>> Yeah. Well, that's amazing. Do you have money saved up for a down payment?

>> Yes, I have money saved up for a down payment as well as um a three to like

five month emergency fund. Um because I do work in TV and film. So, as we know, it's like an unpredictable industry.

>> Um >> how much do you have save for the down payment?

Um, I have 65,000 and then another

10,000 for closing cost saved.

>> Awesome. Okay. And you're in the LA area currently.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, you're looking at housing prices and you're just thinking, "Oh my gosh, this is >> it's a million dollars for a starter home that I need to do a renovation on."

>> Yeah. And a lot of my friends who did buy are like kind of giving me the real

deal about it, about like being house poor and then the industry slowing down here as well. So, it's just catching up to everything. So, >> that is a real fear. Well, could you even move to another state and still do your job?

>> I can um I was looking at Vegas because I do have some family there and then the commute since I do go there often to visit. It's not as bad, but I also like for the past five years have for the like four or five months I've worked out of the country on other projects. So, Oh, nice. And I've rent. So, that's why I'm really looking to buy because I've literally paid rent while I wasn't even there because I couldn't um rent it out.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, even doing a short-term rental while you're in and out, that's still going to be a different headache. And so, it's going to be difficult either way, but I understand wanting to have your own place. What are you paying for rent right now?

>> I pay 2250, not including utilities.

>> Okay. And what do you make in general on an average year?

Um, for the past five years I made about

like 150 to last year I made 230 but I

am self-employed. So that is uh no no

taxes taken out yet. >> Oh, so you got to pay the quarterly taxes out of that.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So that's your gross income. Well, you have a great income and truthfully I think you're not going to be able to get a mortgage for 2250 right now based on the numbers that you've given us.

you know, putting 65 grand down on a million-doll home is going to be a massive mortgage. And so, I would just wait and keep saving, keep renting. And down the road, if you're still like, "Hey, I really want my own place." You might need to go further out, but again, that's going to be a longer commute if you're way out of LA area that you're going to have to deal with. So, just you're trading one problem for another and you just have to make peace with that.

>> Yeah. or what you said, Sam, option three is just moving to a completely different area and seeing, you know, you own your own business, seeing how you can keep it afloat because it sounds like you you're great at it, right?

live somewhere cheaper, that's the best of both worlds in my opinion cuz yeah, we I mean we've se we talked to a lot of people that end up leaving um whether it's, you know, the New York area, California, just because of cost of living. like I would rather live somewhere and have margin financially to be able to do things and have fun than yep be house poor just to live in this one specific area, you know, and I understand people have family and friends and a life that they've built in an area, but at the end of the day, it is kind of like, hey, what what is going to create a level of peace for me?

um I think a lot of people have made the decision to to leave to a more affordable cost of living area.

>> I mean, even the taxes alone, you're probably taking home half of that, right?

Yeah, it's it's super it's been really

really expensive being here. And it's not even the cost of living too. It's just like I've been here for 10 years and every time I come back after a job, it doesn't feel like home. So that's another reason why I looked at other places.

>> Yeah. I mean, even if you take a pay cut and your quality of life is higher and you can afford a house, that might be a better life. Even if it means switching your job or career field, I think your skills will transfer, especially as a small business owner. So, it's a big decision.

We can't tell you exactly what to do, but I hope we gave you some questions to be asking and some insights.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by my co-host Rachel Cruz, also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour. You can catch all of that on the Ramsey Network. We've got Sarah up next in Orlando, Florida.

What's going on Sarah?

Hi, I am struggling with my husband

lying to me financially. Um, I've been

struggling with this for about 2 years and I'm just wanting some advice on how to fix this. >> Oh gosh, Sarah, what's he uh you said he's lying about your money. What's what's um an example of that? What does that mean?

>> So, I first found out about that he had been lying our whole marriage a couple years ago. He had a large chunk of money from the sale of a house that he had put into or he told me he put into a high yield savings account.

>> And when we got to the point of talking

about buying a house, it came out that he had been completely lying about it that there that he'd spent all the money and had I I still don't know where he

spent all that money. Um there are other times where we'll put money in the safe as like a savings account um just you know in case of emergencies. And I went

in there one day uh last March to get

some money out to pay a bill. And the money was gone. And it's kind of things like this that are consistently happening. >> And what does he say when you confront him? Where does he say the money went?

sometime the $70,000 I'm not sure where

it went even to this day. But for the other stuff, he says that it goes to, you know, if I'm out of town for work, he says that he went and spent it eating out or he went and just bought some

random stuff that we don't really need

um that he's not really going to use um

for him. Are is there actual proof of the things he's saying he's purchasing?

>> Yes. Like I see the receipts from where

he's gone out to eat and you know he brought home a guitar and tried to play it for two weeks and then stopped playing it and now it's just sitting in the closet.

>> Okay. Well, there's a few layers to this and I don't know if there's something more nefarious happening behind the scenes. You know, there's financial infidelity. Is there actual infidelity?

Is there an addiction? Is there gambling? There's so much we don't know because he's not being fully transparent. And that is the only solution. There's the only hope for this marriage is him coming totally clean

>> because right now you can't trust him.

>> Because usually Sarah, if there is a level of deceit financially, not always,

but more than half the time there's something else happening on the other side of that door. And I don't >> they don't just blow 70 grand on some toys. >> Yeah. And I don't know what that is, what that looks like, but my my fear is his character is proving out to be that

he lies. He's a liar. He doesn't keep his word. And if he's lying about one area of life, um, again, I pray it's not

the case, but there's a good chance there's other things going on. And so I would for your for your sake of the of the marriage to keep the marriage at all intact, you guys need to sit down with a really really good marriage therapist or counselor and start hashing out. Again, it's not just that it's not just the money piece. This always goes deeper.

This is always it's usually never a money issue. It usually starts to show

itself as a as a marriage issue. And that's what this is. This is a man who

has to make a decision on whether he's going to choose to rebuild trust with his wife Sarah and you you guys will

create a road map over a long process of that healing journey for you to be able to trust him again or if the patterns

continue. I don't know how you stay married to someone that continues to lie to you.

Well, and that's that's the hard thing because in in a lot of ways he he's

great. He he helps out around the home.

He is very encouraging and and spiritually, you know, I don't really believe in divorce. And so, it's hard cuz our whole lives are intertwined. Um, you know, we go to church together.

Like, I want to be led by a godly man.

And it's hard to recognize.

>> Sarah, you're not. You're not though.

You're not. He took $70,000

Sarah and lied about it. You guys have a

have a agreement that you're going to put money over here and he chooses to be a selfish a selfish child and go buy a freaking guitar. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it it is it it's pretty glaring and and I don't I don't I don't trust him. And so no, that's not a man who leads you spiritually, Sarah. No, you can't put a spiritual umbrella over this. This is wrong. This is wrong.

>> Okay.

>> And I'm sorry. I don't mean to be harsh about it, but >> No, something that I need to hear.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's just and and we're a third party that doesn't know you from Adam. So, when you give us information that you've been used to holding, it's become normalized to you, but you say it to us and we're like, >> no. And again, I don't not saying he's a bad guy. I'm not saying he like has a double life or something >> and he can be a good guy in a lot of other ways, but it doesn't matter if you can't trust him. You understand? That's the root of this whole thing.

>> And I'm sure he's a he's a hard worker and he goes to church. He can check all the boxes, but if you can't trust him and he constantly lies to you, there is no relationship here.

And so that I starting today, I'd say, hey, I'm a joint owner on every single bank account, every account in our life.

And if you say no to that, we can't move forward. >> Yeah. And and and it's a spectrum here, Sarah. Again, we we can we jump probably to the dramatics because we do this show for a living.

So, I feel like we we hear some of the craziest stories. So, yes, it could be that he's just sloppy with money. He's irresponsible. He's immature about it and he needs to grow up.

That's that's a best case scenario. >> That's the best case scenario. You know what I mean?

>> And so >> it's um yeah, he needs he needs to step up and be a man. And if he can't own this or understand the seriousness of

what he has eroded in your marriage trustwise, um >> if he brushes it off and goes, "Well, you know, I just I I bought some toys while you were out of town. My bad.

That's not enough." >> Yeah. And and and you too, Sarah, you know, on your end, you got to decide what if it's that serious to you. And it may not be. You may get off this call and be like, I can function in this for the rest of my life.

And you may choose to. I don't know. Because it's the harder work to not sweep things under the rug. and actually to pull the rug out and deal with the crap that's sitting right there.

That's the that's marriage work. Like that's the hard work in marriage. It's so much easier to be like, "It's not a big deal.

have. But if you guys want to do the work to dig deeper, not only financially can you be healed, but I think you'll have a much healthier, real, honest,

authentic relationship in your marriage as well, which is probably the ultimate goal, you know.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> We're hoping for healing for you, but you've got some hard work ahead of you >> and it's red flags. So, here >> tough conversations and how he reacts is going to be very telling. Yes.

>> And I love the quote, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. And so the more he shows you that he can't be trusted, the more you have to realize he's just not a trustworthy person and I can't change him and therefore I am not safe in this relationship. That's it.

That's the hard truth. And uh I hope you guys have some good uh counseling and

church family that can help support you through this. I hope there's healing and redemption on the other side. >> Get some healthy spiritual Christian people around you. Healthy, healthy.

>> Bring it all into the light. That's the path forward.

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Hope is on the line in Albuquerque.

What's going on, Hope?

>> Hi, you guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm excited to have you guys because my question is regarding the Tesla. Yes, you called the right

people today because if Dave was on air, he would have hung up on you.

>> You call me back when you want to buy a real car. >> Two Tesla drivers. Okay.

>> What's the question? Because we're probably going to say yes.

>> I hope we can. >> Oh. So, my husband and I, we're debtree. We both work in the trades and we make about 7 and a halfk a month. Um, so I don't know what that is yearly. I'm not that great with >> Is that your take-home pay?

>> Yes. Okay, great. So, that's coming out to about 90 grand.

>> Okay, perfect. So, but we are 21 and

we're newly married. Um, and we don't need the car necessarily. Both of our cars are paid off. Um, I tried to do the calculations of what

our cars are worth. Mine is about five, but my husband's is different. Um, and I can explain that

he drives a 1996 Range Rover. So, real

old, but >> hope he knows how to fix cars.

>> Oh my gosh, it's a nightmare.

>> Oh no. >> But it's a sentimental thing for him.

Um, he bought it from his parents for four grand, but similar models have sold for much higher

at auction. So, I don't know how to calculate that one. So therefore, I'm

not sure if it's wise for us to buy a Tesla because we're not getting rid of either of our cars.

>> Well, let's say you kept him and let's say his cars are I mean, it's a 1996.

Can we call it, you know, a low on the low side of the auction?

>> Yeah, we could. Um I think the last two

that I saw were about 25 grand.

>> Okay. So, we'll say you got 30 grand worth of vehicles right now. And we base it off of your gross household income, which is going to be more than that 90.

So, it's probably more like 120 is what you guys are, you know, your taxable income.

>> So, how much is this Tesla going to cost?

>> So, we were thinking maybe 15 to 20. And

we don't have the money right now that I want to spend on it. Um, so we're going to wait until maybe December. Okay. Till

y'all save up for it.

>> Do you guys have any Do you guys have any consumer debt?

No, no consumer debt. Um, we just have our mortgage. We bought our house in August, so we have about 217,000

on that. >> Okay. >> Um, >> what kind of Tesla are you thinking?

>> You know, that's up to him. I have no idea. I don't understand the difference.

And >> is he going to be driving it mostly?

>> Yes. His car is the older one. Mine's

2012. So >> So this would be his daily driver. And he'll keep the 1996 Range Rover as kind of just sentimental value >> weekend driving. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Well, this is all reasonable so

far. You're paying cash. It's not more than half of your annual household income. You're doing it all the right way. >> You guys have an emergency fund, right?

>> We have six months. >> Yeah. I mean, I would I would be okay with it. I mean, yeah, I think that's part of this uh baby steps four, five, and six. But make sure you're investing in retirement. you know that you're doing all the baseline stuff. You're being generous. You're giving. You guys

have your consistent investments going for retirement. Um but yeah, if you guys want to save up and >> and you're buying. So that's the that's the goal. >> Buy used, pay cash, not more than half your annual income.

>> Hope I love when we get to say yes to a felt really good purchase. >> I know. I love it so much. >> Usually it's some dude going, "Uh, I want to save on gas, so can I spend $50,000 and take out a loan to get a Tesla?" The answer is no, Brad.

>> I know. That's great. >> That's a fun one. Okay, Courtney's in DC up next. Courtney, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, I'm really excited to be here.

Thanks, guys. >> Yeah, good to have you. How can we help?

>> So, yeah. So, my question is, I recently just came into making both 1099 income and W2 income. Um, and I am just having

a little bit of trouble figuring out if I should be doing like being in an LLC

um, to help myself save money and if I should be doing the self-employment retirement plan to also reduce my taxes.

U, my goal is just to save as much money as possible. So, I'm just kind of on a beginner. >> How much are you making at both your full-time job and then your um 1099?

So, the total um household income my wife and I make between 164,000 and

197,000. Okay. >> The 1099 specifically is just me. That's between um 25 and 37,000.

>> Okay. So, you make 37

>> um plus my W2 money. But yeah, >> which was what how much do you make in your W2?

>> Um between my two jobs, I make about 75,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. What what kind of work is the 1099?

>> It is social media management.

>> Oh, okay. So, you don't need an LLC.

>> That's more of a liability protection

category versus I need this because I run a business. You can just do a schedule C and be a sole proprietor and

do that for the foreseeable future and just make sure you pay your quarterly estimated payments to the IRS.

>> Right. Okay. >> Yeah. I have to say if it becomes your main source of income, like if you end up tripling it or something, then I feel like you could probably >> This is a long-term business that you're going to have, >> look into more commitments, meaning even

the retirement account. Uh, yep. And if you're going to, you know, be hiring someone under you, like all of that, if it starts to expand into something bigger because you're making so much more, then you can kind of consider that next step in the small business world.

But for now, you're kind of just, you know, you you freelance, which is great that you're making an extra 37,000 doing this. >> If you start making 50K, 100K, I would contact a CPA and figure out what the best status would be for you because it might be like an escorp versus an LLC and they can walk you through all the differences and which one would be more beneficial for you.

>> Okay. And then the the part about the retirement plans, we usually have about $2,000 left over every month. Um, and I

just don't know if I should be putting it there or if I should be putting it just like in our mutual fund.

>> What options do you currently have through your employer for retirement?

>> So, my W2 income doesn't have any retirement attached to it. Um, my wife's does. She has 6% that she's putting in.

It gets a 6% match.

>> We both >> Yeah. So, 6% for both. And then we both do max out our Roth IAS.

>> Great. Great. >> Yeah. I would focus on maxing out all the tax advantaged retirement accounts first.

So for her that might mean we're going to max out her retirement. And if there's money beyond that, we've done, you know, the IAS, we've maxed two of those out. We've maxed out the 401k. If you have an HSA, a health savings account through your high deductible health plan, you can max that out as well.

And so those would be all the options I'd go to first before just going outside of retirement into like a brokerage account and investing in some mutual funds. >> Yeah.

feel like you can kind of check off cuz you can't touch that money till you know you're 59 and a half. So if you have more to invest, that's when it would be like, "Okay, yeah, why don't you just get Yeah. a brokerage account, index fund or something because it could be money that you guys may want to use in the next five years, you know what I mean?" Where retirement, it's really locked up, but for tax purposes, it's wonderful. Um, especially the Roth IRA.

So those are always the first buckets to fill to make sure retirement's good. And then any investing beyond that, um,

definitely is an option down the road.

>> Yeah. And there's some nerdier options.

I won't get deep in the weeds, but there's something called a mega backdoor Roth 401k where you can actually contribute after tax dollars into the 401k and then convert it. And so that might be an option through your employer. You have to have an employer that allows both the inplan conversions and the after tax contributions. >> But again, that extra extra you can't touch till you're 59.

You have to.

>> Yep. >> Okay. But you're crushing it. Way to go.

>> Well done. >> Quite the work ethic.

>> That's amazing. >> Look at you. That mega backdoor Roth, George. That's why we love hosting.

>> It sounds like a seven-year-old came up with it. >> She loves >> mega back door. It's all right, bud.

Settle down. Go play with your toys.

>> The giant >> like why mega? It sounds like something Trump named, but it's existed long before Trump.

>> One big beautiful mega back door.

>> Just a mega just a mega back door. It's a good >> back door. We're sneaking in the back door. >> Not enough people are talking about it.

>> I know, George. That's why we love you.

>> I'm the only one in America, me and some financial advisors. >> We love that, George. >> Because you got the backdoor Roth IRA, you have the mega back door 401k.

>> If your brain hurts, you're not alone, America. >> Rachel is done with this conversation.

So am I.

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We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the show. The inbox is completely full of your wonderful questions. The calls have been lined up and we can't get to them all. So, if you have a money question, you want an answer for your situation, we've got you covered. Head over to our website and use our new Ask Ramsey AI tool. It's

completely free. It's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. I've been stress testing this, Rachel, and I've been so impressed with the level of knowledge it has. It sounds like us on the show because it's trained >> by all of our articles and all the things we say on the show. >> Yes. I was going to say that's how And when I say feed, I don't even know really what that means, right? you feed the AI of all of our advice >> and it's hungry >> from from the show articles, our team.

So, it really is buttons up. It's It's amazing. >> Yeah, you're not going to get this from Google cuz it's taking in way too many sources. It's going to cloud the judgment.

And so, if you want your question answered Ramsay style, go do it for free today. Ramseyolutions.com is the place to go. And you'll see a big like search bar in there. That's the Ask Ramsey AI tool.

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>> Yes. >> And some people were DMing me. One girl

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Enter the question in the Ask Ramsey search bar there on the homepage or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Mary is in New York City up next. Mary, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

>> Um, awesome. So um, first I'm so grateful for finding you all. Seven months ago, I decided I'm making too much money to be stressed about money.

Got the Every Dollar app and it's completely changed our spending habits and we actually budget now.

>> Oh, I love it. Well done.

>> What a great testimonial.

>> Then awesome. Um, so we are on baby step two. In the next couple months, I expect to have about a $20,000 inheritance

coming to me. Um, we have 43,000 left on

a heliloc. That's our remaining debt.

Um, but in order to solidify this behavioral change, I'd rather put the 20k in our emergency fund and to con

continue to work and pay off the debt ourselves, I consider it like a $1,200 interest um stupid tax if we're able to

pay it off when we should be able to pay it off by October 1st this year. Um, is it sensible to take uh that interest loss as a stupid tax in order to uh kind

of maintain our discipline and earn being debtree?

I would say, Mary, your behavior's already been changed. I mean, you guys are paying off debt. You're budgeting.

You're in it. You're >> angry at your past decisions and you're never going to do it again. >> I don't think that this is going to be a windfall that you guys pay off half the HELOC when you receive this 20 grand and then suddenly go back in your old ways.

If anything, I think it >> it's exciting. It's a little bit of that like, oh my gosh, we just were given a gift to fast forward this process so quickly. And then once it's all paid off, then you can have all of your income to build the emergency fund back.

So, I would keep the baby steps in order. Um, I hear what you're saying and I so appreciate that because sometimes that is our caution if we have people that are just starting this process and they do get >> a big loss, you know, they um they had a lawsuit so they get a, you know, a check from that, a settlement or >> they go, I'm going to just sell the house and use that to pay off the debt but never change my spending behavior.

>> Yes. But you guys have changed your behavior is what it sounds like to me.

I'd give yourself probably more credit.

>> Okay. >> And it's going to light a fire under you to not have an emergency fund. have that $1,000 only while you attack the HELOC.

>> And guess what? You get the discipline and behavior change of having to build up an emergency fund from scratch.

>> So, you will you will get to eat your vegetables soon enough.

>> Sounds good. Yeah, the emergency fund being at a thousand and not contributing to retirement has been a lot of fire.

>> That's that's more behavior change right there if you're willing to stick that out through the debt payoff >> versus getting a little too comfortable having 20 grand sitting in savings.

She's like, "Well, I mean, we're going to be okay." Something happened.

>> Mary, how much do you guys make a year?

>> Uh, we uh just hit about uh 300 before

taxes and all that. >> Amazing. Yeah. >> So, this debt's gone within a few months anyways.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's the plan.

>> Okay. >> So, either way, in six to nine months, you're going to end up in the same place. But, you know, regardless if you keep this in an emergency fund or whatnot, but I would just throw it at the debt and just keep that keep that process. >> And the money you save in interest, you can give to a a wonderful cause once you guys are debtree with an emergency fund.

So, don't punish yourself just for fun.

>> Okay, that sounds good. Thank you so much. >> Well done, Mary. Excited for you all.

>> Fantastic. All right, Anna is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Anna?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Great. What's your question?

>> Good. Um, yeah. So, we're kind of in a

difficult situation. Um, my husband and I were pretty much forced back in November to pretty much restructure our entire financial um, dilemma cuz his

they made a mistake with his company. He

got a promotion and he was making really good money. So, we were basing a lot of our financial decisions off of this income that he was getting. But then they come back nine months later and tell us that this income that he was making was actually a mistake. They made a mistake on his commission.

>> What? >> So they overpaid him and now they're saying, "Hey, we need that money back." >> Well, no, they did. They're not making him pay it back, but he did have his suspicions. Um, you're not really supposed to discuss pay with other employees, but he had other people in his position that he had spoke to and were talking about some some hard things going on with their paychecks because it's all commission driven. and he wasn't really feeling that because his was a lot higher than theirs. Okay.

>> So, he brought it to um brought it to the attention of the um higherups and they looked at it and they said, "Yeah, actually is it's wrong on here." So, >> Oh, no. >> We didn't have to pay it back, but they aren't. But, it is affecting our taxes this year big time because of the withholding. >> Yeah. He wasn't withholding enough. So, you'll have a big tax bill.

>> Yes. So, we're going to owe about 4,000 in taxes this year. >> What were what was he making and now what's the corrected pay?

So he was making about 2500 a week and

now it's more like anywhere between like 12 and 1,500 a week. >> Oh gosh. So it like cut in half.

>> Yeah. So we made some financial decisions along the way based on that income. >> Shoot. What kind of decisions?

>> Yeah. >> Um debt, >> how much >> car payments, credit card?

>> Yeah. Um >> let's not blame the company for that. By the way, we made some decisions to go into debt. >> So that there's there's both and here.

So what is the car loan or loans?

>> Well, I will say this. We have since

this happened, we have gotten on the

best track that we possibly could. We were we did have three vehicles. Now we have two. We we got rid of one of them that we didn't necessarily need. And I actually got rid of the more expensive one that I was paying way too much money on and paid the negative equity with the proceeds from the previous vehicle.

>> Okay. >> So now we're down to about 30,000 for two cars. >> Two cars, 30 grand total and car loans.

What about credit cards?

>> Credit cards, we have about 10,000 credit card debt. >> Okay. Any other consumer debt?

>> Um other than that, I mean it totals to be about 50,000 with the cars and the credit cards. Um, >> oh, so y'all got this new you got this new money and you said we can live it up. >> Yeah. >> And what about the house?

>> The payment started racking up. So that's what I'm that's my question. Um, we have we're willing to do anything we can to just get us back get our heads above water and and actually live and not be house poor.

>> What's your payment every month?

>> 2400. >> O. And yeah, all of our total expenses for housing is around 3,000 a month whenever you add utilities and things like that.

>> So now it's over half your tank home pay.

>> Yeah. So we're thinking, should we sell the house and downsize since the market's kind of trending that way? >> Are you working outside the home? >> Trending down? >> Yes, I have a full-time job.

>> Okay. >> How much are you bringing in a month?

>> Um 52,000 a year.

>> Great. So this is not as on fire as we thought cuz I thought it was basing just on his income. I wouldn't sell the house. >> I think you guys will get your income back up to where this will be a reasonable payment as far as your take-home pay.

I would look at selling one or both of the cars if you want to get out of this faster, but otherwise, you got a great income. Let's focus on knocking out this 50K of debt and never going back in >> and watching lifestyle creep, Anna. You know, like that that range when you get a raise, everyone's like, "Oh, I can spend this much more." And you just keep your lifestyle consistent with that versus living below your means. So, remember that.

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>> Today's question comes from Rebecca in California.

Oh, I just saw I just saw this. Thank you, Rebecca. Should Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce get a prenup considering they both have their own income and careers? >> Wow. This is a Rachel question.

>> Um, yes, Rebecca Taylor Swift should

bring up because I think she's a billionaire. >> Yeah, she's got a higher net worth than him. >> Yeah. less less about the she has her own income and their own career.

>> She's a working woman. Yes, she's a working woman. She's a billionaire. >> But also, when you have a major discrepancy in net worth, um that's one of the only times that we talk about a prenup is probably wise wise to do.

>> So, don't go, "Well, Rachel told Taylor she can get a prenup. Why not me?" >> Yes. >> You don't have a massive business empire and intellectual property and catalog rights and touring companies and everything that Taylor's got going on.

Taylor's prenup compared to Travis is gonna be this thick.

>> We shared the meme on social which was like the lawyers counting money. They're like the lawyer's working on the prenup for Taylor and Travis. >> That's right. I know. I know. So, yes, I would um very much say, as she should,

Taylor Swift, I would get a prenup.

>> And Travis, very successful NFL player.

>> Yes, >> he's got a lot of assets, too. And so I think it is wise for those two people to have just some clarity about here's what we're bringing into the marriage. Here's how we're going to handle it. Here's what happens if the unthinkable happens.

>> That's right. >> That's okay to do when you have that level of wealth. >> For sure. For sure. Oh, Rebecca, thanks for the question. >> Did you get an invite to their wedding?

>> No, not yet. Okay. I'm still holding >> I love the yet. I love the optimism you have that you will get invited somehow.

>> Somehow >> you'll be lucky to get a ticket to the live stream. >> Sure.

But you'll make that. >> I hope they live stream it. They won't. I hope for I hope for their sake they keep it private. You know, >> I would charge tickets and then give the money to charity. That would be the ultimate power move.

>> Oh, like a pay-per-view situation.

>> 100 bucks to watch. All proceeds go to >> Oh gosh. >> to their favorite charity.

>> Why nobody has done that is beyond me.

Guys, do I have to come up with all the ideas here? >> Yeah, that's actually a great idea.

>> I would have done it if I thought anybody would buy tickets to see my wedding.

Oh my gosh. Well, you're such a generous guy. >> Thank you. Zach is in Nashville up next.

What's going on, Zach?

>> Hey guys, how you doing? Um, so my question is, uh, how do I determine my salary value as a project manager in my field if I don't have too much to go off of? Um, I put 2.8 million in the ground in 8 months, um, starting out with this company. uh brought it from a 600-year

uh yearly revenue to 2.8 million. Uh my salary is 50,000 right now base. I got a

bonus of two grand and extra paycheck for Christmas. But I work 80 to 100 hours 7 days a week on call all the time. Got a wife and a eight-month old baby. >> Oh my gosh. What do you do?

>> I'm a fencing project manager.

>> Fencing, you said?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Why are you still with this company? because it feels like you've been mistreated or at least you feel that way.

>> Well, the the owners let me know that there's some big salary things ahead.

Um, and I'm coming up on my one-year negotiation. So, I've reached out to other franchise owners, PMs, and stuff like that, and they're making about 70 80 running a five to 7 million, three to

7 million operation. Um, I'm running this one alone since when when the proposal's accepted. I handle everything. Materials, client relations, installation, quality walks, everything.

>> Do you have any commission buildings?

>> Uh, no. And that's kind of another thing I'd need advice. >> Why don't you just move into sales? It sounds like you've got some sales skills.

>> Yeah. Um, I I got a bigger picture with

my brother to be in the GC, get back into the GC field. Um, and this is kind of a step along the way.

>> Okay.

Well, I mean, you lay out here's my role. Here's how I've been going above and beyond. Here's what I'm bringing to the table. Here's how I increase revenue. And if they go, well, yeah, yeah, one day, but here's a little two grand raise for all your hard work.

Thanks, bud. I think that's clear that they're not going to value you as much as you feel like you're valued and it's time to look for a different employer. >> And you've been there for a year. You've obviously made some major moves to help them grow the business. So, I would ask them, hey, what is a what does a path look like for me to grow my income? And

have them answered, too, because, you know, I mean, it's their response. They're the ones that are going to make the call. So, I would be curious if you just have an open-ended question to them of, hey, what's a what's a not only a career path within this company, but for a for salary growth, what does that look like? And if they don't really have a plan or they're not looking for a plan, then you then I guess that's a call you're going to have to make.

Yeah, he's mentioned something about um matching for contributions for kids college and stuff. I'm still waiting to Nothing's really been happened, you know what I mean? A lot of talk.

>> Uh two, three months.

>> Okay. >> How old are you?

>> 25. >> Okay. If I'm in your shoes, the best ammo you might have is looking at another employer who sees what you've been doing and you go, "Hey, this is how I help the revenue. Here's what I've been doing. Is there a position here where I can add some value?" And just see, you might double your pay without having to sit here and negotiate for another two grand raise.

But if the writing's on the wall and they're just kind of promises, then I wouldn't be there much longer.

>> Much Yes, sir. >> But I mean, it's a simple conversation.

Hey, I think I'm adding value to the organization and if I am, I'd love to talk about how that can show up in my paycheck in a reasonable way. >> How many how how big is the team, Zach?

>> Um, I run three crews myself. One is

eightman crew, one is a fourman crew, and one's a two to three man crew. Um, but we keep them, two of them fed six days a week. >> Okay. >> And they're happy.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, just the the fact that you're working 80 hours a week making 52,000. That doesn't >> essentially you're making 25 grand, which is like $12 an hour. Yeah.

>> So, that's where I go. Clearly, if this is what's expected and required of you for this 50 grand, I would not do it anymore.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, if you're as sharp as you say you are, I think you can get hired elsewhere and make more. >> Have some humility, too, in the conversation. You know, you haven't been there a year. >> No guns ablazing here. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I would I would I would make it a conversation.

And again, the way they run the business, it's a small business. They may not have the structure in place cash flow-wise. I mean, who knows what how healthy the company is. >> He's saying, "Well, I brought it from this much to this much in revenue." >> I don't know what they're doing with the revenue either.

You know what I mean? They're maybe buying a building. I mean, I don't know. Like, so you you got to get a a big picture, too, of what's going on.

>> Let's get to Jeff in Phoenix. Jeff, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are you doing? >> Great. >> Good. Hey, so my wife and I, we make between 6 to7,000 a month um given

overtime or commissions. We were kind of stressed about money. Weren't really sure what was going on with all of it.

We downloaded every dollar, been listening for about a month and threw everything in there and kind of came up with nothing. We are out of debt and the

kind of the zero dollars at the end of the budget comes after investing 15%.

But we're looking at um we'd like to be able to pay off our mortgage early, but we just don't see where we can find any extra money. >> So, you have expenses that rack up to $7,000 a month. That's what you're bringing home, >> right?

>> That's where I would dig in. >> Build a budget. Sorry, what?

>> I was saying that's that's the spot to dig in. If you're saying, "Hey, we have a great income. We don't have any debt.

We're investing 15% before this hits our bank account. That tells me there's some high expenses inside of your budget.

>> How much is your mortgage, Jeff?

>> 2,000. >> Okay. Yeah, >> that's reasonable. So, we got another four to 5,000 left. Where are the majority of that going? >> Do you have kids? Daycare?

>> Uh, no kids. It's just the two of us.

Um, I feel like we live pretty comfortably, but not too comfortably. We

Let's see if my every dollar year. I have it open in another tab. Um, we

tithe 10% so around 600. Um,

utilities and HOA that's probably an

additional 400 there. Um, we both travel

over 30 minutes to work. So about 400 on gas, spend 400 on groceries, 200 on

eating out, and then

this is probably where you're going to tell me to cut back a little bit, but probably 500 on just us. all the extra

things. >> Yeah, that hasn't added up to five grand yet. >> No, I'm still at $4,500. There's still another $2,000 here that's unaccounted for. So, what I would do is not just look at what you plan in every dollar, but what your actual bank statement said, and you'll go, "Oh, we got to tighten up in a bunch of these areas." And every dollar will help you find that margin with recommendations.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call isle8825-55225

if you want to join the conversation as we help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Kevin is in Atlanta. What's going on Kevin?

>> Hey, how's it going? Um, so my mortgage is about uh 4 months behind after my

wife just stopped contributing to uh the

household and we are currently in uh

loss mitigation until May. Um, they're

giving us a chance to try to like catch the mortgage back up. However, I'm still

kind of dealing with some financial infidelity from from her. Um, as far as,

you know, neither of us could afford the house without each other. Our mortgage is about $1,700 a month and my income is

7 to $800 a week and hers is about 1,400

every two weeks. and that's after taxes.

So, I was just trying to see if you could give me an idea of uh uh what I

should do as far as the the house goes.

We do have three kids. So, I'll put that in perspective. >> Did you Did she stop working, Kevin? Is that why? >> No. So, she's she's working. Um actually, at the beginning of all this, um I went through a hiccup with my job.

So, she works during the day and I was working overnights and my mother went into the ICU. So, I

had to take about a week off um because

I thought, you know, she was she was on life support. So, I had to go be with her >> and I ended up losing my job. So, it took me about um 3 weeks to find another

job and then when I did it was during the day. So, then child care, I was having to pay for that as well. Um, so

then >> why do you keep saying you were having to pay for it? How about we had to pay for it as a household? Right.

>> There is no And honestly that's where I've kind of made a mistake from the very beginning. Um, everything has been

separate from the very beginning, you

know, and I believe I do believe all of

her money is going towards the kids, but

I think it's a little ridiculous. like she uses the firm website

>> um buy now pay later >> and yes found out that later right so Christmas any holidays birthdays >> it's all in payments >> um anything you can think of it's all she orders the stuff off Amazon and they

just pop it right out of her check so >> are you guys living together still >> we do we do live together >> so what what's the dynamic like right now cuz you've been throwing out a lot of words like infidelity and she stopped stop contributing. Have you guys had a conversation about what's going on?

>> Uh the best that the best that we could.

Um yeah, I mean >> I mean she does understand she's going to get foreclosed on if she doesn't choose to contribute. You know what I

mean? Like like as a house yeah as a household we have to pay our mortgage however that gets paid out of any it doesn't matter whose check. We got to pay the mortgage.

>> So I don't understand what she's >> expecting is going to happen.

you know, I really don't either. And then I've kind of I've always been the the uh the bill payer and like the take

care of everything, you know. So, like I'm the one who kind of worked out the um the financial plan with the the

mortgage company. I've explained it to her the best that I could of of how the loss mitigation works. Basically, I think we're on like a forbearance plan to where it just gives us enough time to get caught up to keep >> a sense of urgency here. Kevin, I'd talk with her tonight and say, "This is on fire. We are about to lose the house.

Our kids need a roof over their heads.

What are we doing?" >> Way and the way we've been doing this sucks. This is horrible.

>> Like you Venmoing me for the mortgage and then it doesn't come through and now I can't pay the mortgage payment. This is not working. So even if it's just for the kids right now to have some safety and security, she needs to pitch in,

>> right? >> And if she's out of control spending, then you need to reroute the money into a bank account that you at least can see. >> Yeah, that's the that's the thing that has to happen in the next week or two because you guys have to >> start, you know, paying back on this.

But then overall, Kevin, you can't we can't function like this, you know what I mean? I mean, long term in the marriage. And so for did does she have

any urgency to work on money with you

and for you guys to be a team? Because always couples that have this this split of a mindset in such a big topic like money, I just assume you don't have a great marriage.

>> We we definitely do not right now. And um I tried to sit down and budget with her and in fact I downloaded an app um

besides Every Dollar because our lives are hectic cuz we have been working opposite shifts. So I'm like a great way to effectively communicate financially.

There's an app um called Honeydew and it just allows you to view each other's bank accounts. So I know how much she has, she knows how much I have and it kind of becomes more >> it's not really getting to the root of the problem. Yeah, I hear you. It's less about visibility and it's more about unity. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> right. And she just again she's like, "We can budget without knowing where every dollar is going." And I'm like, "That's literally the name of of Dave's

budget app is every dollar." So,

>> you know, um, >> it sounds like you guys have a bunch of consumer debt, too.

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I um it's I don't know, to be honest. I don't even know what all debts she has >> because >> you probably don't. >> Um, >> well, fun homework assignment. You guys both pull your credit reports tonight.

You can do it for free. annualcreditreport.com.

And you're going to find out and we're going to say, "Hey, all cards on the table. >> What are all the debts we have? We got to clean this mess up." And again, I don't care if you hate each other, but you need to do this for the security of your own family in general. >> Keep the house. Yeah. And then you guys need to have kind of a reset, Kevin, of

um of where you guys want to be, you know, as a couple in the next two, three, four years. You guys need to I mean, truly have this picture of this is

what I want. This is what what John Deloney says that this is what I want our home to feel like. What do we want our home to feel like? What do we We're raising our children in this home. We are in this marriage together. you know, you can make choices to change habits, to change the way you've been doing marriage and and completely turn it on

its head and do the complete opposite, right? Because right now it's just chaos and division versus peace and unity. And

if that's what you both want working together, um yeah, I would I would lay out a road map for you, you know, and just say, where do we want to be in 24 months? Like in 2 years, what would the ideal life look like, feel like, and how

do we reverse engineer that to decisions that we have to make today? Some of the stuff's on fire, like what George is saying, we got to get the mortgage paid.

I mean, there's some of that that's like, but overall, what does it look like to truly have a healthy marriage where we are a team in this and together, you know, we're making decisions together. We both have input regardless of who brings in the income.

This is a household that we have chosen to be a part of. And so, when the money hits the account for the household, how are we going to budget it together? And out of that creates the unity. But sometimes you have to do those rigorous steps first, you know, to to get to

where you want to go. But that's part of figuring out though where you even want to be as a as a couple. >> Yeah. I don't Is she has she opted out of this marriage? I mean, you mentioned the word infidelity. I don't know if that's just financial. Financial, I think. >> Okay. Is that true?

>> As far as I as far as I know, it's just

financially. Um, >> well, you guys make $6,000 takehome from what I gathered, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. That is above the average take-home pay for a household in America, and you guys are living well below average lives right now. And so that's the reset we need. It's not an attack on her and attack on you and who's right and who's wrong. It's we need unity. We make too much to feel this broke and these kids deserve some shelter over their heads. This is stupid to lose the house over being ununified.

I wish you the best.

All

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That's rammissysolutions.com/

is in Chicago up next and welcome to the Ramsey show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> So, we have three young adult children.

Two of them are very responsible and respectful. The third is terrible with money, spends money as fast as he can get it, and he also has a major lying problem. So, currently, our relationship is very strained. He's not living with us, and he's not living uh a life that we can support right now.

In the meantime, we are looking to rewrite our wills or set up a revocable living trust. So, how can we set this up? So, if we were to die before he matures or changes direction here that

he would have to demonstrate necessary qualities before receiving his inheritance and at what point does he simply forfeit his share? And what do we do with that share then? And also, of course, we do not want to be the cause that our adult children do not get along after we're gone. But we also don't want this gift that we've worked so hard for to be wasted.

>> You're asking the right questions, Ann. And I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. It's It's not how you picture it when you imagine being able to bless your family and leave a legacy and now you can't even trust the child to handle it. >> Correct.

>> But you're doing the right steps. I mean, a revocable living trust is the move and you can customize the provisions and you'll need a strong trustee to actually carry this out. But you can time it all.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And if that's it, Ann, I would communicate it. It's going to be really hard, but I would rather him hear that from you all at some level than the

reading of the will, you know, if you guys pass away. Um >> Okay. >> That and then I would >> so have a conversation with all three of them. >> I would. Yeah.

>> Okay. To let them know, >> let them get mad at you while you're alive instead of getting mad at the siblings when they had nothing to do with this. >> Yeah. And I would have the conditions have someone >> um Yeah. Whether it's the trustee, whoever it is, that it's not one of your children that has to monitor his behavior because that could make the

relationship really odd, right? So, if there's a good family friend that you trust, but I would not I would not um

put one of the siblings in that position because I think that could um definitely cause tension, you know, and be very clear on those conditions too, right?

Not subjective. Um as clear as you can

be is going to be the best. And and it is I'm with George. I'm like, it is so it is so heartbreaking because money is such a magnifying glass. It makes us more of what we already are.

And if there's really, you know, horrible habits, things that he's, you know, doing that's damaging himself and then you put money on that, it's that yeah, it's gonna it's gonna make his life even worse, right? Where money is supposed to be a blessing in that. So, I think there's definitely some wisdom and it is very >> it's very sad. It's very very heartbreaking, but I do think there's wisdom in that.

And and my prayer is that yeah, he >> he wakes up.

>> 90. >> 19. >> Mhm. >> Okay. 19. All right. You know, we're all a little >> There's still time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I'm glad he's not like 40. That makes me feel better. >> He's not too set in his ways. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um Yeah.

>> But you can always change it later.

>> Being specific like what could

>> here's an example. You could say, "Hey, there's going to be a sobriety requirement and a debt-free requirement, and every month we're going to check your credit score and do a drug test, and if it's clear, you will get $5,000

every month." So, you can set it up to be as specific and nuanced as you want.

And a good estate attorney can help you set all that up because they've seen it all. They've seen it go wrong. They've seen it go right. And so I'm just giving you an example of how nuanced and specific you can get because it's your money and you can have as much oversight as you want and as much strings attached as you want, especially if you're worried about them.

>> What I wouldn't do is make one of the siblings the trustee cuz now he becomes the bad guy. And so you want a strong third party, a professional trustee through a company that specializes in this. That way he doesn't get to fight the siblings. They go, "Hey, we got nothing to do with it and we can't do anything about it." >> Yeah.

>> Right. Right. I understand that. All right, >> but good luck in the meantime.

I know it's hard because he's an adult now and he can make adult decisions and you wish you could just be like, I want the best for you. Change, please.

take a little bit more rock bottom to get him to to have his prodigal son, you know, home returning home moment, >> right? I understand. Thank you.

>> Absolutely. Man, that's a tough one. All

right, Kristen is in Illinois up next.

Kristen, welcome to the show.

>> Uh oh. Can I hear you, Kristen? Loud and clear. Speak. Can you hear me? Yes, that's better. >> Hey. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. So, my question is about affording a larger house for my growing family. We live in a pretty small house right now and financially we're doing well, but I feel like I'm really asking my kids to sacrifice too much instead of providing for them. >> What kind of sacrifices are they making?

Are they working the fields all day?

>> No, kind of. We have chickens, but >> Oh, good. They should be working out there. >> Yeah. No, they I mean, like any kids, they have hobbies. Like my 13-year-old really likes to do Legos, but our house is so small and now we have a baby that he really can't enjoy. He can't have most of any of his things inside the house. A lot of their toys um that they've had over the years are in the garage and they just there's not enough room for them really to be normal kids.

>> How many kids do you have?

>> We have two. We have three now. So, three boys. >> And how many bedrooms?

>> There is three bedrooms, but we use one as an office. >> Okay. One of you works from home.

>> We both work from home. Yeah. >> Okay. And what's the square footage?

>> We have 1,50 square ft.

>> Okay. So, it is tight. I mean, that's that's legit. You're not making this up.

What would a bigger house cost you guys?

And could you afford it? In our area, a bigger house would go easily for $365,000.

Um, and I'm honestly not sure if we could afford it, but everyone I feel like everyone is telling me, hey, you guys just have to pull the trigger and do it because if you don't take any risks, you'll never get anywhere.

>> Everybody doesn't pay your bills. You pay them. >> And everybody is broke, Kristen. So, >> so I wouldn't be asking for their opinion. Truthfully, what I would do is just look at the facts and go, "Okay, our income is $10,000 a month, so

therefore we can afford $2,500 on a mortgage." >> Yeah. What's your income a month?

>> My husband makes $80,000 a year. Um I

used to make 80,000 a year, too, but since the baby's been born, I really haven't been able to do much.

>> Yeah. >> Um so it's going to be that way until he's in kindergarten at least. Like two, three more years. >> What hits your account every month with just your husband's income? Is it around 7,000?

>> Um, yeah, >> probably around that. Okay. Um,

so yeah, I mean, I would be, yeah, looking for a home, and you'll have to do the math on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. What could you sell your house for today? How much would your house go for?

>> It would go for 165 to 180.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys owe on it? We only owe about 60,000. We've run

a 15-year fixed mortgage at 2% flat.

>> Okay. So, you could walk away with over 100 grand to put down on the next house.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. And if you guys had any Yeah. around a $2,000 mortgage. Um,

you'll have to see. Yeah. With that all, you know, you can do the Ramsey mortgage calculator at ramseyolutions.com and put in with the down payment and everything. And yeah, there's a chance you guys definitely could.

But I went on just a whim like, oh yeah, just you you don't you got to take risks. No, you don't. No, we have facts that you get to make really wise, mature decisions off of because you have numbers, you know, and so let's be wise with that and make sure that again that payment's no more than 25% of your takehome pay. But I think yeah, if um if it all works, I would definitely up I would upgrade, get some more room.

>> Yeah. And he works from home >> most of the time. He worked in an office at at his business like one week out of the month. >> Okay.

Um and that's 15,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, that's eating up a good chunk of your budget as well.

>> Yeah. So, you got to figure out, okay, let's do a budget and yeah, we got about, you know, 1,100 going out to private school. We have this new mortgage, right? theoretically, uh, here's what we need to spend on food.

I mean, yeah, you got to map it out because sometimes you can't have it all, right? I mean, you might I'm not sure depending on how the numbers work. You might be able to we can't have all three. We can't have a big house on a single income and send the kids to private school.

And so, then you get resourceful and go, "All right, we're going to work work this out. He gets a corner of the house or he goes to the office more and we free up a bedroom, which gives us more room for now. Then we're going to save up and upgrade when the time is right.

So, I wish you the best. There's hard decisions here, but I think you guys can make it.

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get that cabin secured. They're they're going fast. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseyolutions.com/events to book your cabin today. Emma is in

Wilmington, North Carolina up next.

Emma, welcome to the show.

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call today. >> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> So, um, I'm a little bit of a situation.

So, uh, me and my husband, we both, um, own businesses and we're both pretty, I guess, entrepreneurial, I guess you can say. And we're keep on having disagreements about how we choose to particularly how I choose to invest in my business and how

I choose to spend my money, how I choose to do like in particularly invest into my business. And I just feel like he's

always micromanaging me about every

single thing that I do for my business while like for me while he's running his business I'm just kind of honey I trust you. But when it comes to like sort of my turn, he is always kind of in there and just it's making like it's making it hard for me to make all these decisions

that I feel like I should be making for my business >> because he doesn't think because there's I mean is it is it like it's a conversation and he gets excited because he loves small business and he's like I want to look at the numbers and talk to you about it where you feel like he's being controlling or that he doesn't trust you or h what what's the what's

the feeling? it it's like he says that hi like I trust you in it but I just feel like I should be there because I guess he says he does trust me but I feel like he doesn't guess he's always like like doubling down on my decisions he's like is this are you sure that this is what you need to do >> are you asking him for advice

>> into advice and particularly how I choose to like invest into my business I should >> what do you mean by invest in the business you keep mentioning that >> um by like getting um like ads or like

advertisements like I need that to grow my business and he just sees it as a waste of money.

>> Okay. And so you're not going into debt for this. It's not a values issue. It's just I have one way of doing it. He has another way of doing it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Are your businesses connected or related in any way?

>> No. So, um we just recently, uh split my

all of my income and all my expensive like expenses for my business like completely like out of our like separate

like we need a separate account for all of my stuff, but he's still running his business from our personal >> Okay. Y'all need two separate business accounts.

You don't need a you don't need to co-mingle a business running a business and your personal checking out of the business. >> Yeah. Oh, like the fact that I am like I guess you could say like more legit.

Like I have all my papered files like everything filed and everything in order. Well, he's like also kind of starting out. >> Okay. >> So, it's not like official official.

Yeah. But he's still doing it, you know? He's still >> Yeah. I still Yeah. I would go get just a diff another checking account, right, to be running the business out of just so that it doesn't all get tangled up.

>> Yeah. that. And then as far as him giving you his opinion, I think that's just a that's a communication,

you know, issue in my opinion of, hey, I

don't like the way that you're stepping in. I would I would love to know your thoughts because I think you're smart and you know I mean if you think that please do you know and I would love to to hear what you have to say but I'm but at the end of the day I'm probably going to make these different decisions because I'm going to choose to do it this way or that way and it's not an immoral thing like what George was saying. It's just a this is what I'm going to choose to do and he yeah should be supportive of that unless it's like a horrible decision but so far >> unless it's hurting the household yeah >> and damaging the income severely but I think it's fair to say hey I'm open to advice I'm just not looking for oversight I need space to lead this business and if I make a couple mistakes here or there that are non fatal I'm okay with that and we just have different ways of approaching this so unless I specifically ask for strategy I'm not looking for that unsolicited advice, but I would love your support and I offer the same to you.

>> Um, we kind of just have this same conversation like every like few weeks out. Um, like we had this conversation.

We're like, okay, like I'll kind of like back off and then we like to be really

transparent about how we choose to make decisions and what kind of big like money decisions we make. And then it just kind of come comes back up where he says, "Well, like what is like your return on that?" And I'm like, "Well, the return is not guaranteed because it's like it's like advertisement, you know, and >> what's the nature of his business?" >> H >> what's the nature of the business he's running?

>> So, he's in like selling cars and like parts and all that stuff.

>> Okay. And he's just getting started. What is your household income?

>> Uh, that's the thing. We don't have It's different. every single week. It mostly like depends on what he sells, what I can sell, and uh >> what are you selling?

>> I do like uh weddings. I do like floral and decor. So, I'm not guaranteed to book out until like certain amount.

>> It's a long-term play for you cuz you're talking about weddings that are booked a year or two from now that you're trying to get on the books.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, um do you guys have consistent income outside of that? Are you both working other jobs or is this it?

>> No, I just quit my job um a few weeks

ago probably because uh I wasn't getting enough hours and they were not willing to give me more hours and he quit his job to pursue this. Uh >> so what are you guys making in a given week or month?

>> In a given month we could we could be lucky if anywhere from two to seven grand. >> That's quite the range. I'm just wondering what's at the root of this. Is there fear in his mind of, hey, are we going to be okay and is this business going to succeed?

Are we going to be able to hit our financial goals this month if you don't run this business how I think you should run it? So, I would get to the root of what his true concern is.

It was, "You're doing it wrong." It's more of like he thinks I should not do

any advertisement and no like marketing at all that I should just be like just do your like do what you do and like

orders will come in, you know? And >> yeah, it's just different philosophy on how to run a business. But what I would worry about him is that you guys may make two grand in a month and he quit his job for something that's not even official that he hasn't quote unquote filed papers for yet.

Yeah, >> that makes me a little nervous. Does it you?

>> Sounds like he should focus on his own business right now.

>> I understand where it's like when it comes to sales and cars where it's like kind of you're not really guaranteed to sell, but the income is like decent. We have a lot saved up. We have the flexibility. >> Okay, good, good, good, good.

As long as you guys are in a good spot. Yeah, at this point that's just a different way to run a business. And I would I would just tell them, yeah, I don't I don't need the thought. It's just it's creating too much conflict.

>> Yeah. And just reset the conversation and say, "Hey, we need to reset on the values that we both have for this household, for our money, and for our business." As long as we are aligned on the values and the principles, the process and and which way we run the business, it doesn't matter.

>> And if things go south, you're going to go, "Hey, listen. I need some help here.

The ads aren't working. what do you think we should do? And that's wise to have that counsel, you know, you need to support each other and you can do the same for his business, too. But it's not out of a lack of trust and micromanaging.

It is a truly I want to see you win. And when you win, we all win. And right now, it almost feels competitive. I don't know if he's jealous of your business cuz it's more successful in his right now or what's going on, but I think you need to get to the root of it.

>> Mhm.

>> I wish you the best, Emma. These are these are not fun conversations to have, but they're worth having. And maybe this isn't a season where he needs to be running this business. Maybe you guys do need some more consistent income and he goes and gets a job selling cars and you run this for now and maybe another season he gets to run a business and you go do something else. I don't know what that looks like for you guys, but being on the same page is a great first step.

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Our scripture of the day, 2 Chronicles 15:7.

But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work shall be rewarded. Dwayne Johnson said, "Be humble, hungry, and always be the hardest worker in the room." >> I love wise words from The Rock.

>> I love The Rock. He's one of my favorites. >> He's likable. >> He is. I know. Well done. Good quote.

>> D is in Wilmington, Delaware. Up next, D, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> I um just got a life insurance

inheritance um because my husband passed away in November. Oh, I'm so sorry.

>> I'm sorry. >> How old was he?

>> Um, 44.

>> Oh my gosh. Oh, >> I'm Do you look Do you guys have kids?

>> We do. A 17-year-old and a 14-year-old.

>> Oh wow. D, I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh.

>> Um, >> thank you. >> He had life insurance though.

>> Um, through his work. He didn't have it privately, but anyhow, it there's um

$150,000 that was in his life insurance that I did get to collect.

>> Um he had some 401k that went into my

401k and that left me with a pretty good amount. So, I have like 900,000 overall.

>> Oh, good. Okay. How old are you?

>> Uh 54. >> Okay.

And um so anyway, I can't afford the

mortgage by itself, but because I have kids, I have survivors benefit that's going to come to me until my son turns 18 and graduates. So for like the next year and a half, I should be okay with making payments on the house.

>> Okay. >> But then I lose that and then it's just my daughter. >> And so I think I would have to pull from something. So, I don't know if I should use the $150,000 and put some of it in to the mortgage,

like to help pay off the house, or should I invest it? I don't know what to do with it. >> Yeah. How much is how much is left on the house?

>> 237.

>> 230. Okay. Um, and

financially, do you guys do you have consumer debt?

>> No. >> No debt? >> I don't have anything but house. Yeah. >> Okay. And what kind of savings do you have? That's not investments or retirement.

>> I have about 30,000 just in.

>> Okay, perfect. Just like an emergency fund. >> Yeah. Um, most of our money went to his medical stuff, so I couldn't put more away. >> Mhm. Okay. And

and your income, what are you making a

year? >> 100. >> Okay.

Um, yeah. I'm just thinking I probably would ride out I think I would just keep that

150 in probably a high yield savings

account right now and with the survivors benefit ride that out for a year and then I would probably plan on pulling some of that 150 until you're able to

pay off the house because you'll have probably after if you applied the whole 150 you'd have 80 grand left on the

house and that feels feels doable to me.

>> Yeah. What's your margin like right now with just your income and the survivor's benefit?

>> What's my what I'm >> How much margin do you have at the end of each month? How much money left over after paying all your bills?

>> I don't really know because it just started. Um I should be getting and I I

took a leave of absence for two months, so I don't really know, but I'm I I

think I think I will have at least $1,000.

>> Okay. Okay. And how much is the mortgage a month? >> 22. >> Okay. Okay. >> But you'll probably have a,000 e after

mortgage and everything is paid off. But when that survivor benefit is over, you'll have 2,200 that you got to pay per month. Correct.

>> Correct. Okay. And when my daughter leaves, for sure. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Will not have enough. Yeah. >> Okay. The other thing you can look into with a financial advisor is the rule of 55 which would allow you to access those the retirement account which could help you to knock out the house.

Oh, >> so that's one other option to look into.

And you can reach out to a smartvetor pro uh at ramiesolutions.com and just kind of walk through all the variables here to be strategic because you have to be uh it wasn't a $ 1.5 million life insurance policy and so if you're trying to make this money last for a long time or at least put it to good use. Um the truth is you're going to have to work for the foreseeable future. I mean you have that 900,000 if you work for another seven years and just let that money sit, it could double.

>> Yeah. So, you will be out of the woods soon enough, but just the next few years, it might feel a little bit tight, but I'm not concerned about you losing the house or not being able to make the mortgage payment. As long as you can keep up that six figure income, is that pretty stable? >> Yes. >> Okay, great. Then I would I like

Rachel's plan of just letting it sit in a high yield savings for now until you know that you know the next step because once you put it in the house, it's kind of locked up in there. And I love the idea of you getting rid of that mortgage because that makes retirement and covering your bills a whole lot easier.

So that is still the goal. It's just what's the best way to get there and when.

>> Okay. Okay. That's good. I have also he had a Roth IRA that's about $20,000

and I haven't done anything with it because I didn't know if I could I have

some like we haven't done anything in the house cuz he was sick for so long.

So there's like trees that need to be taken down. There's, >> you know, masonry that needs to be I need a new dishwasher. Like, I didn't know if I could use that 20,000. Um, I

don't know if I should I don't know what to do with that Roth IRA, actually. >> Yeah. Because it now is an inherited IRA.

>> I I've done nothing with it, but it's an option to be in an inherited IRA.

>> Yeah. And you do you have savings outside of that that you could use to cash flow some of these things around the house? >> I have $30,000 in savings. Um,

>> that's your emergency fund. I that's my emergency fund. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't touch the emergency fund for these, but I would try to cash flow it even if it's out of your future income. I love the idea of that money continuing to grow taxfree if you don't absolutely need it.

>> Okay. So then should I just make it into my do I make it inherited or do I put it in my own because I have a Roth IRA myself and I believe I could roll that into there. >> Yeah. Again, that's a great question for the Smart Invester Pro because there are going to be differences with, you know, the required uh draw downs from an inherited IRA versus rolling it over.

So, if you are able to roll it over, there might be some upside to that of you not needing to draw it down immediately. But again, it's $20,000.

It's not the bulk of your net worth.

But, I would just be more hesitant because that's all tax-free money. And so, we want to just protect that as long as we can to let it grow taxree.

>> Okay. Well, they said, "Okay, so you that's my goal is to keep it growing taxfree." Okay. Because they did say if I took it out, I wouldn't have the penalty, but that use it as income. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So, I'm so sorry you're going through this. You're asking the right questions, D.

It's It's not something anyone ever pictures having to go through. >> Yeah. And usually we say, too, with any bulk of money after a tragedy, just pause for a year. Don't make any big moves.

more clarity will come because you're still right in the middle of of new grief. I mean, it's just been it's been just a few months for you. So

>> well, if you need a good uh high yield savings account, D, you can jump on to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They've been great partners with us and they have an awesome smart bundle just for our fans and that's a great place to park that 150 until you know what to do next. >> Yeah, >> good reminder for life insurance. >> That's what I was going to say, George. You know, you guys, I mean, he thankfully had something through his work, but we we really do recommend people get 10 to 12 times your annual income. Um, and a term policy. Don't do

whole life. Do a term policy. If you're a stay-at-home parent, half a million dollars or even 700,000 on you. um

because people depend upon the work that you're doing or the income that you're bringing in. And you know, in this case, again, I don't want to fault them by any means. Um but, you know, that'd be a million-doll term policy. You know, if you know, if they were or I guess depending on what he was making, but if he was making a hundred grand, >> um you know, so it just it it changes the dynamic so much of a grieving situation when you don't have to worry about money on top of it.

And if you're healthy, you guys, and if you're I mean any age, but especially if you're younger, it is so inexpensive.

inexpensive. And so Xander's great because they shop so many different companies to get you the best rate. And >> a lot of them you don't even need a medical exam. You can do it all online, which is awesome.

>> And as your family grows, you guys, and your income grows, Winston and I just had to do this probably about two years ago.

>> That's right. So, y'all look at I mean, yeah, life insurance is one of the best ways to say because you have it through your employer, you go, "Well, I'm good. I have it through my employer, but that might be one to two times your income.

You you need 10 to 12 if you want to actually be able to live off of this and invest it and live off the growth. So, get it done today. Let this be a a sober

reminder. xander.com or you can call 800 3564282.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 57. Financial Freedom Gives You Safety, Not Risk | February 23, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm John Deloney, joined by George Camel, taking your calls on your money, your relationships, your work,

everything. Anything you got going on in your life, we're here. 88255225.

Let's go right down the street to Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Ethan.

What's up, Ethan?

>> Uh, hi. Can you hear me? >> I got you, man. What's up?

>> Uh, well, thanks for having me on today.

And uh I was calling cuz uh my wife and I were in baby step number two and uh we've made some pretty good progress and but we've made it to our final we call it the big dog. It's our final big payment and it's a student loan of 118,000 >> and >> that's one loan at a six.

>> Yes. It's my wife's the occupational therapist and that was her uh graduate

like degree. >> That is a big big dog.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's why we named it that.

But uh so today my question is uh it's

at a 6.1% interest rate and it makes me sick to look at the balance and like it goes up like I mean like this the la from the last time I checked it was sometime this week to I think last night it was like $70. Do I save any more money by like paying that weekly or or monthly or I just didn't know if I saved more if I if I paid every single week versus like every month just one big

>> I mean the faster you bring the principal down the less interest you're going to pay. But the simplest way to do it is just apply extra to each monthly payment. >> Monthly. Okay. >> How much are you guys making?

>> Uh we're fixing to do our taxes and we made around 140 in 2025.

>> Okay. But what is she making?

>> Uh well, she's PRN OT at the hospital

and uh we which we just had our first baby back in July and she's she was born a little early so she's needed a little extra love we call it.

>> And so she kind of put her hours back, but she made um she made like 29,000

this last year and but the year before while you know before we were having the baby she had made like 65.

>> Okay. How do how do we get her making closer to six figures so we can knock this out quick?

>> Well, uh our daughter's fixing to uh

like we're waiting for the next doctor's appointment to come up. We're hoping that like she can come off like breathing treatments and whatnot so we can hopefully free up mama to be able to work soon, >> work more hours. How much are you making? >> Because I I made I made 120 this last

year. >> Awesome. Okay. What do you do for work?

>> I guess we made almost uh I'm a UPS driver. >> Okay. Is there room for overtime for you? >> Oh, yeah. I get plenty of it.

>> Okay. I think one or both of you get hustling. As soon as this baby is is healthy, let's get this income up because that's your your greatest shot at getting rid of this debt faster than the interest is growing because it's just one loan. So, there's really no debt snowball here. It's basically a you're trying to knock out a mortgage.

>> Correct. >> Can I say something cruel to you, Ethan?

>> Please. I'm going to put a I'm going to put a a a worm in your ear and you're

going to have to promise me that once you've paid this off, you're going to take that worm out. Are you ready?

>> Yes, sir. So, one time I was uh me and

some buddies were going to a concert and one of my buddies was an attorney and we were all meeting at his house and I got there early, which has never happened in human history, but I got there early and we just popped on the couch and we ate

some and we watched an episode of Seinfeld and we got up after that 30 minute episode and he goes, "Well, that

cost me $300 or something like that cuz his billable hour rate was 600 bucks an hour, whatever it was back then.

>> And I remember looking at him thinking that's a terrible way to live, right?

And here I am now. I'm on 100% commission. I had that same thought sometimes like, well, I just watched a whole football game and I could have been, right? I want you every time

you're not on the clock and you're not and you're not fully participating in your house, right? But >> I want you to think, man, that hour just c I just donated this much more money in interest to that bank.

Mhm. >> And use that as fuel to say, I'm going to pick up two more extra hours in overtime today. I'm going to do an extra hour tomorrow. I'll come in for a half day on Saturday because sitting on the

couch, I refuse to sit on the couch and pay them 50 bucks in interest for the privilege of watching whatever dumb show I just watched.

>> You can't do this forever. It will melt you and your family. But for a season to get this stupid student loan out of your life, man, let that thing just wormhole its way into your brain.

>> Yes, sir. >> I'm not going to pay these banks. I'm not going to exchange, you know, kicking my feet up to pay these banks some more money. >> Mhm. >> I want them out of my life. >> Do you guys have any other debt?

>> Uh, no. We're currently uh rent, which our rent's only like 650 a month. Oh, we're able to make like Yeah, we're we make some like and all our vehicles are paid for and the only thing we have is that big dog. >> Okay. So, cuz here's what I'm thinking. You guys, if you make let's say 150 this year, if you really get after it, which is very doable, >> uh you probably clear what 9,500 bucks a month in take-home pay.

>> Yes, sir. Thereabouts. Yeah.

>> So, think about that. If you can live off a small portion of that, three or four grand, we can throw five, six grand at this debt. You're done in less than two years. You're talking 18 to 24 months max.

Yeah, then that that's we we actually even were trying we were just talking the other night and I guess we've kind of put it put it aside for just a second. We was going to come back and talk about we was actually trying to see what we could do in like the next 13 months. Like >> I love set a goal that scares you a little bit and excites you a whole lot.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It excites me. It scares her. So I'm the one that's like I'm one there's times where I might be like kind of dragging her along in all this.

>> Well, hold on. She's She's been pregnant for a year and had a child with like

Don't drag her too. Like, >> you know what I mean? Give her some grace. It's been a tough year.

>> Yeah. And I can be a little too intense sometimes, which she she tells me it's like I'm the hair and she's the tortoise in life. So, >> well, you got some homework now just figuring out how much can we really throw at the debt right now and how much can we throw at it when she's back to work full-time.

>> Sure. >> And then you can kind of get a timeline going and go, "All right, 14 months, game on. We're getting this thing done.

Yes, sir. >> And then stick to it. Hold each other accountable. Do the every dollar budget and every month you pay your four walls, your insurance. Anything other than that, it's going towards the debt.

>> Yes, sir. We love it. >> That's it. I think you guys will get there. I have a lot of faith in you and we're wishing you the best with the health of that little sweet baby.

George, I don't hear that very often.

how and you work through it with a ton of people through budgeting and helping them like you do those webinars and stuff like actually sitting with people and helping them work their budget.

It seems to me that the the for me at least the greatest path forward would be to say I'm going to put a ridiculous

um month amount, right? 13 months, 15 months and I'm going to reverse engineer that and say okay, what must be true?

What dollar amount would I have to come up with? And that to me feels like taking a what feels like a big target on the side of a wall and making it like a laser target. Like, okay, I've got to get this many dollars this month. I can figure out how to do that.

>> Oh, yeah. And when you when you look at like a big mountain like he's got 118 grand, it's hard to just look at it and go, "Yeah, we can knock that out." >> You said six grand and it's like, "Oh, cool. 112," right?

insurmountable. >> Yeah. And so the breaking it down into small chunks that you can see on paper is if we live off of 3,000, we will have

6,000 left over. >> Yeah, >> that's the fact. So I love focusing on the facts because debt is emotional.

It's scary. You're going, "We'll never pay this off." And they go, "Wait, you guys make amazing money. What if you just took control of that, did a budget, got in a plan, held each other accountable, and made it fun." I know this is cheesy, but we had our Excel spreadsheets and we had all of our stuff. This we we we did this before the Every Dollar app, but we went old school and made a construction paper chain and I hung it in the bedroom.

>> Arts and crafts, baby. >> I want to see this thing. I'm going to tear off a chain every week. And just watching that thing get >> below six figures, below 75 grand, 50 grand, 25.

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All right, let's go out to Columbia, South Carolina, and talk to Dustin.

What's up, Dustin?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you for taking my call today. >> Is your car okay, Dustin?

>> Yeah. Are you good?

>> I was rolling up the window.

>> Oh, there you go. Sweet. Sweet. My my question is, do you risk setting yourself back on the baby steps and your goals to help family in need? Here's the situation.

My dad lost his business last year, and ever since then, it's been a process of losing just about everything. He is going to lose their car, the family car, and he came to me and asked if he could borrow one of my wife and I's cars. We have two. Um, we we have a truck that I

use for work and an SUV, a midsize SUV

that my wife uses.

Here's the thing that would complicate it. U, we have a baby. Uh, we have another baby coming in September, and that would, you know, create its own problems with a growing family. Plus, my

dad would likely need the car for probably the rest of the year, I'd say.

Probably till probably till at least around the time the baby comes. and my wife and I would look at saving for a

new car. >> Yeah, >> we just finished baby step three.

>> Let me take this off the table for you. >> Yeah, y'all are not in a position to do this.

>> Like I like at my house, I have an old farm truck.

>> I could give that truck I could loan somebody because I've got my car that I get to work with. My wife has the car that she gets to work with and and and we both shuttle kids around and I have an old farm truck that I I loan out regularly. You don't have that.

No. >> And so you're not in a position to This isn't about setting yourself back. This is about your dad put a pretty heavy burden on you. And I I don't know him.

This could have been a manipulative move you've dealt with your whole life or it could be a guy who's just at desperation level right now. But the reality is you don't have it to give, >> right? >> You don't have it to give. And that that's heartbreaking.

Now, you can help him work through this in other ways because he's he's probably in a cloudy spot right now, but it doesn't mean that we're going to be in the car giveaway business. So, where what happened to his vehicle? Did it get repoed? Did he have to sell it?

doesn't have the money to dig out of the hole he's in two payments behind. And uh

it's he's upside down on it about >> And when you say he lost the business, what does that mean? the business. Uh he

uh had a lot of debt on the business equipment. It was a lawn and landscaping business. He had a large client uh that

uh dropped him and then he had another

customer refused to pay him about to

$15,000 of services last year. So, >> okay. But he has the equipment. He can sell off all the equipment >> and hopefully walk away with something. >> Gone. >> It's gone. What do you mean? >> Everything's gone.

Some of it was repossessed. Some of it he sold uh and paid off some of the loans, but he doesn't have any equipment left. >> Okay. And what's he going to do for work for income right now?

>> Right now he's working at a hardware store making about $20 an hour, but he has another job lined up now that'll pay him about twice that in April.

>> So he he's not just sitting on the couch feeling sorry for himself. He's out there hustling.

>> Yes. >> Good deal. That's noble. That's good.

Good deal. And what's his transportation right now? Is it still the car that's about to be repoed? And can we sell it before it gets repoed or catch up on payments and sell it?

>> I think it's about past that point.

>> Cuz if you Now what you could do if you wanted to is just catch him up on his payments so that he can go sell this thing, which is better than repo, which they're going to come after him for the deficit. They're going to go sell it at auction >> for way less than it's worth and then still come after him. And so you'd be in a better spot if you can help him catch up on payments to then sell it outright and make more for it.

>> Is this something that you would use your emergency fund for? Because that's the >> If I had a baby on the way, no. Cuz right now you got to protect your own family. They come first.

>> Yeah. >> And so if I'm in your shoes, we're kind of in storm mode right now. And dad's in his own storm mode and we all got to figure it out. I would honor my dad by

having a if this is possible geographically having a face-to-face conversation just saying, "Dad, like I 100% get that you're in a tr in trouble." And I really honor the way like you're setting a good example for me as a as a young dad for when

like life throws you a whole bunch of curve balls in a row. You you put on you put on your belt and you went to a hardware store, right? Like like that's honorable. And >> I got a new baby on the way. I've got a youngster. I'm not in a position both financially or with vehicles to to help

you out, man. And it breaks my heart, but I I'm just not in a position to do that. That face to face man-to-man conversation. Um assuming a he's not

going to throw a temper tantrum and he he'll actually hear you, right?

>> Um I have a rule that I only have conversations if somebody can hear me, right? And if they're angry or frustrated or think I owe them or whatever would would be in the case here, I you can decide whether you'd have that. But that would be a neat way to honor him to say, "Hey, I want you to know I see and I'm proud of you and I simply don't have it to help with right now." >> Do you know the deficit on his payments?

The exact number?

>> $2,700. >> Goodness gracious. So, this is more than two payments unless this is a giant payment. >> It is two payments. It is a over $1,300

payment. >> Goodness gracious. >> And so I just I don't have it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And hey, let me let me tell you this. Um there's a psychologist out of New York. Her name is Becky Kennedy and um she's a friend of mine and she gave me this new definition of guilt I

want to pass to you.

>> She said often what we said call guilt

is not that at all. Guilt is a feeling

that's inside of our chest that's right and good. When we violate our own values, >> right? You haven't violated your own values here. >> That guilt that you think you're feeling, you're trying to take his sadness and his franticness and his fear and you're trying to manage that for him. And you can't do that,

>> right? And so it's you saying, "I'm not violating any of my core values. I'm doing what's right for me and for my wife and for my young child and the child that's about to be here. And I'll

sit with you while you have these these feelings, these big feelings of fear and terror and embarrassment and shame, all that stuff that he's feeling, but I can't hold that for you. I'll sit there with you, but I can't carry it for you.

And I know all of this you're talking to two guys who love their own dads. I know this is this this is heavy for you.

>> Yeah. >> But you know what else it is? It's a line in the sand where you go, I want to be in the position to where if this ever happened again, I could help, >> right? >> And I wouldn't flinch.

It would be such a small part of our world that I get to help the family that I love. Uh and it wouldn't set us back. And so it's a I mean, this is one of those things where you start to run away from the decisions that your parents have made. Not the character.

He sounds like he's a a great guy, but as far as the decisions and the financial place he put himself in, highly leveraged and running a business that he still is going to owe a bunch of debt on, you know, I'm never going to put myself in that position. I'm going to pay cash for things. I'm not going to owe other people money. And this is the other side when we talk about financial freedom.

talking beyond my own house, right? Like I want my house to have peace, but part of my house having peace is knowing I can help folks out when I think it's the

right thing to do, right? And so this is yet another encouragement for you and your wife to stay the course. You all paid off everything you own. You've got yourself an emergency fund saved up. You got a new baby on the way. We're going to continue to walk these baby steps all the way out. And I want to be in a position one day that come what may, I can help out, right?

Mhm. >> Hey, let me just like you're a good son, man.

>> Really? >> He's lucky to have you. Regardless if you can fund his misbehavior, he's so lucky to have a guy who cares this much about his old man willing to walk through this with him. >> You're a good son. And by drawing this line here and having the courage to have a face to face with him, you're also showing courage and um like honor for

your family too, your your wife and and your two young kids.

>> Thank you for that.

>> Like it's it's an honor to talk to you.

Okay. >> Thanks. And I love your book uh Building a Non- Anxious Life. >> Oh, thank you. Yeah, I I think the the hard part about building anxious life is these moments. It's not. It It's It's simple, but it's real real hard in in in real life, right?

>> All right, brother. Keep going. Doing the next right thing, man.

>> George, this one's hard. This is one of those like uh and again, we should probably talk about this more.

>> This is the give like no one else, right? Yeah. >> This is the I've taken care of my family and my bills. I I drive this vehicle or

we live in this size house or we don't go out to eat this often because it's more valuable to us to have a pot of money that when one of people we love gets gets in a pickle. >> Yeah. >> We can sit down and >> the weak can't help the weak. And so you get to a place of strength, it gives you a lot of opportunity to make impact.

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Let's go talk to Monica in Indian in

Indianapolis. What's up, Monica?

>> Hi. How are you guys?

>> I'm good. What's up with you?

>> I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love you. I love you. And my my sister loves you, George.

>> Oh, that's sweet. Why doesn't your sister love me? All right. I get it. I get it. I get it. Teach us been happening since high school. All right. So, what's up?

>> Um, so yeah, I've been having conflict with my husband. Um, we I work

full-time, he works full-time, and then he also has a second job, a second part-time, a second job that's part-time, excuse me. And um we've been

thus far using um his income from his

part-time job as extra principal payments towards the mortgage, but he now starting in March wants to use that

income towards investing in crypto. And

I'm not on >> Well, that's an oxymoron. Awesome.

>> I'm not on board. And we just have a lot

of conflict on it. Um, so I wanted to uh

get your guys's thoughts. I'm a bit afraid of being controlling cuz I grew

up in a home where my mother was very controlling and wore the pants in the house and I I don't want to be like that.

>> You're not being controlling. If my wife said, "Hey, I know we got debt to pay down. I'm going to go gamble in Vegas instead. Are you okay with that?" I think it's wise as a spouse to say, "That's not a good idea." Those are

opposing goals. What about the last two months with crypto has made your husband be like, "You know what? I'm gonna I think I need to get in on this." >> Um, I know he has a friend who's in on it and he claims and this friend claims that uh

he's very successful in it, >> recently successful because it went down 50%. >> 50%.

It's lost 50% of its value in the last two months, >> which which makes me think, well, maybe he's trying to like buy the dip. Everyone's going, you got, now's the time, man. It's going to climb back up to 100,000. And maybe it does. I'm not here to, you know, play back the tape a year from now and be wrong. That's fine.

I just think there is a guaranteed outcome of paying down your mortgage.

There's a guaranteed interest rate, which is your mortgage interest rate that you're making by paying down this mortgage. So really what this is, there's a difference in risk tolerance and you guys have different definitions of winning. So you're just not on the same page. You value different things right now in your marriage.

>> Okay? >> So it's really a conversation about unity. And he thinks, well, this is our path to financial freedom. And you're going, "Nope, my financial freedom looks like less risk, not more." >> And and h keeping this conversation, the fight about crypto, you're never going to get below the surface of the water. You're all going to make a lot of splashes and you're gonna take in a lot

of water up your nose, but you're never going to get to the actual issue which is under the water, which is, hey, we made an agreement that we wanted to never owe anybody any money again

>> and you're violating that agreement.

>> Okay. >> And that's that's the real issue.

>> This is a trust issue, right?

>> Yes, definitely. And often um I I wonder

if your mom ended up wearing the pants because that's who she was or if she ended up because over time she felt like she had to.

>> Yeah. Um I I still don't want to be like that because I unfortunately like resent her way more than my dad dad when it comes to what they did with me financially as a child. >> I got that. And that's why it's imperative for you to not fight this on the surface. Don't engage in a proxy war. This is not about crypto. This is about him feeling like you can't tell me what to do. This is about him feeling bored. This is him feeling prideful, FOMO, right? Fear of missing, right?

Fear of missing out. And this is about you saying, "Hey, we made a deal

and you're violating our core like have the true conversations underneath the thing." >> Okay.

>> But just for whatever it's worth, George and I are 100% on your side on this one.

A thank you. >> I've never won against a crypto bro yet.

So just know I don't think this is going to be easy to win him over because he is so convinced that you guys are missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime.

>> Right. And George gave you the best.

Like I just view this as >> sitting at a blackjack table in Vegas and the house has won four times in a row and the guy next to you is like, "Dude, they can't win five. This is it.

Let's go all in." like put all your chips on and

they they might, right? Like it's may maybe you win this time, but maybe you don't.

>> Mhm. >> I just talked to uh a caller. The wife found out about some financial infidelity. He took out a heliloc, $250,000, put it into crypto, lost it

all. >> Wow. >> He claims he hit the sell short button instead of sell, which we all know is a lie. And so this is what it leads to.

I'm not saying this will be your husband, but there's a level of like

fear, greed, pride that lead to a the

risk meter being broken, which leads to really bad financial problems.

>> And so paying off your house, nobody calls in saying, "Oh my gosh, worst decision of our life. We are deeply in debt." >> They're not. You're debtree. And so it's an opposing goal that you guys have. And I would get to the bottom of say, "Hey, what are you really hoping crypto will do for us? Is it quick wealth? Is it freedom? Is it the security? Is it FOMO?

And then share your why. Hey, paying off the house for me makes me feel safe, makes me feel stable. And the security matters more to me than the potential of

making money. >> And if you want to be a gangster, you can say, "Hey, we pay this house off and we get this much cash in the bank. Knock

it out.

>> Buy some crypto." >> I like that compromise. >> Here's 25 grand to go buy as much crypto as you think you can get. Once we're in baby step seven and we're already investing 15% of our income into retirement, >> now we can go play. >> Now you can use your fund money to go do this. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> How much is left on the mortgage?

>> Um 244,000.

>> Okay. And how much are you guys paying extra right now? Like what's your total payment? Our mortgage payment, our

mortgage payment is um 2,400

and we've been paying double.

>> Nice. 4,800.

>> Yes. Correct. >> That's awesome. And so based on that timeline, when will you guys pay this off?

>> Um if we keep paying double, it would be paid off um within the next within the

next six years.

>> Okay. My guess is he goes, "Man, 6 years

is a long time to be paying double. It would be easier if I could 10x my money

and put it into crypto and then we could pay off the mortgage." Is that his thinking?

>> I think so. Yes. >> He wants to shortcut this and speed up the process.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I always go back to this proverb because it's so grounding for me. It's Proverbs 13:11. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

And you know what? You know what get rich quick is? It's wealth gained hastily.

And when you do it little by little, you tend to lower your risk, increase your peace, and you stick with it. You're not going to make any rash decisions when you worked really hard to get this money or pay down the debt. You're not going back in because you sacrificed for it. I can't imagine how many people who have leveraged their souls and watched it all get cut in half the last couple months.

>> Like I don't have a penny in crypto, but even it makes my stomach hurt just thinking >> it's 247. At least the stock market closes. You can be up at 3:00 a.m.

watching it go up and down. >> Yeah. >> And so for me, it's just not worth I got other things to be anxious about. Don't need one more to add to the list. I'm good. I got a dog on two legs right now.

So, let's worry about the real things.

>> He's got a dog on wheels.

>> That's true. He does have a wheelchair now. Thanks, John, for bringing it up. Appreciate that. >> Not Not a lot of people can say, "Hey, you know what? I got a dog on wheels." >> At least it's not a Tesla.

>> You have one of those, too? >> I do. Oh, for two.

>> Even better. What else you got, George?

>> Uh, I don't I don't have any crypto, so that's the good news. But here's the thing. People think we are anti-crypto.

All we are is anti-getriqu, anti- greed,

anti- pride, anti- destroying your marriage, >> anti-doing things out of order.

>> Yeah, there's a time and a place to have >> as much crypto as you want after you have taken the existential risk of your

home getting taken away, of your cars getting taken away, of your ability to take care of your family getting taken away. >> Replace this with sports betting, whatever you want. It's just there's a risk here. It's speculation. It's unwise and it's not investing. And there's way better ways to access peace.

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and start filing. Let's go to Manchester, New Hampshire, and talk to Terry. What's up, Terry?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Of course, thanks for calling. What's up? >> So, um I'm just looking for a little bit of advice. Um I'm 60 years old. I just

ended a career in which I'm receiving a pension and I've started a second career

um which I'm hoping to work for about the next 10 years and I'm just wanting to make sure I'm on the right track as far as what I should be investing over the next 10 years.

>> Um >> very cool. What's your new side hustle?

I mean it's not even a side hustle. What's your new career?

>> Yeah, I'm consulting. Excellent.

>> I'm I started an LLC.

>> Um I'm debtree except for my house. I only owe about 60 on my house. Um, but

all I have right now is that pension.

It's about 47,000 a year. Um, and I know

that's not going to be enough. And I'll tell you, I don't have anything else because of a couple of things. First, I just found you guys a few years ago. Um, but I also have a special needs adult son. So throughout he's in his 30s. So throughout the years when you know things come up and every time I think I have a little bit of money to set aside, something comes up, right? So then I have to spend or I do spend. Um, so here

I am and I'm getting a little worried cuz cuz you know he continues to have needs, but I just want to make sure I'm on the right track. So I have a 47,000

pension. My gross income is about 130 to

150 a year.

I have expenses from my business of about 30k, I'd say. Um, and I'm I'm just

trying to figure out how much do I put aside? How much do I try to invest

between now and then to feel like comfortable? I feel like it should be like my goal should be about 300,000 >> in an investment account.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. At 70. So that's your goal.

>> And you still have the mortgage and the goal for I would say let's go into retirement completely debtree house and everything. >> Mhm. >> And so I would be investing 15% of your awesome income while paying down extra on the house. And in no time, you're going to pay off that house, >> okay, >> with this income, right? In the next few years, it's gone.

>> Which means the following seven years, we can now max out retirement options.

Like for you, a self-employed person, a solo 401k.

>> So, I tried to ask my tax person and my investment guy about that, and they both were just like, you don't need that.

>> Complicated. >> What did they say you need? Um, they have me right now in a um I rolled I rolled some 403b money into a SE IRA.

>> Okay, that works too.

>> Um, >> I like the solo 401k because the cont the contribution limits are massive, especially for someone your age because you have catchup contributions.

>> Mhm. >> So, you're talking I think it's 80 grand this year for someone in your shoes.

>> Okay. >> Which is insane. You can really catch up on retirement with that kind of with those kind of numbers. And so I would look into that as an option. Um, >> okay. >> On top of your IRA.

>> Terry, I'm going to ask George a question on your behalf. Okay. He's smarter than I am at this stuff.

>> So Terry, how old are you again?

>> 60. >> 60. All right, George.

My gut tells me that if I was in her situation and I suddenly stumbled on, not stumbled on, I created $130 to

$150,000 in extra value. Right? So, in

New Hampshire, I'm going to guess um

you'll you'll take home 80 of that after

taxes and then you're going to have 30 of that off the top. So, you're going to have $50,000.

My I I would feel a an intense internal pressure to not put a penny in retirement until I could just throw everything and get that house taken off like that. Like clear my house at 60 grand, work maniacally to get that risk taken off. So, I've got that taken care of. And then I would spend the next however many years just sucking every penny away and trying to live off that 47. Could I find a world where I just

condensed my expenses, my travel, all that kind of stuff, lived off that pension, and I just started saving everything. Is that bad?

>> I wouldn't say it's bad. Uh I think either way, if you did it on paper, you'll kind of get to that finish line either way. But if you're tracking through the baby steps, it's 15% until the house is paid off and then we're maxing out retirement. And so I like the idea of you flexing this s this investment muscle because you really haven't. It's been the pension the whole time. And so you'll get used to not seeing that money in your bank account.

Instead, it's going towards your future.

And I can crunch the numbers for you here. Let's say you pay off the house in three years. Could you pay it off by 63?

Put 20 grand a year towards it?

>> Yeah, I can. And then after that, the mortgage is freed up on top of the money you can throw. How much could you throw a month after that if you keep making what you're making?

>> Three grand a month. >> I mean, at least.

>> Okay. So, three grand a month from 63 to 70, you'll have $362,000 at a 10% rate of return.

>> And then I just let that sit really.

>> Yeah. If you let it sit, I mean, what we've seen in the stock market, it's the rule of 72, it'll double. If you get a 10% rate of return, that money would double every 7.2 2 years.

>> So if you didn't need it, you could live off of your pension for a few years.

It's just going to continue to grow. And if that's in a Roth 401k, it's going to be completely taxree because you used after tax dollars to fund it.

>> Okay? >> So think about that. It's like net income 360 grand.

>> Mhm. >> And then if you create a special needs trust, >> this isn't this isn't like pieces. No, I would I would tell you if you are way out of line. But you told me your goal is 300 grand in that investment account plus your pension, you will be okay.

>> Okay. >> If you do 4 grand a month, you'll have 483 grand. And so you can play around with the numbers using our investment calculator to kind of >> figure out what that future's going to look like. >> And I would create a special needs trust for my child that if something happens. >> Okay. I'll need to find out more about that because I feel like I never have enough money to do that.

>> Okay. Yeah, I would I would dig into that. But if you end up with 400K in

retirement funds or retirement accounts plus your pension, and I don't know how pensions work with uh trust and with special needs trust, I don't know whether it would be transferable or not. >> They're survivor benefits, something like that. >> But I would dig in and get every bit of that information. And by the way, some of that um uh panic is the wrong word,

but that growing, gnawing, it's tiny right now, but it's getting bigger. That sense of angst, right? like you're 60 and then you're you're gonna blink and you're gonna be 70 >> and your special needs child will be 40 >> that it it feels like guilt almost like I need to take care of him. What am I doing? I didn't make enough money. And you start like a lot of that type of angst is quenched when you have real information.

>> You hit the nail on the head with that because that's why I'm feeling a little bit frantic about that exact thing you just said. So, finding somebody and saying,"I want to learn about this." And here's the words I use now. Um, I want you to teach me like I'm a ninth grader.

And I ask folks that about any purchase

I'm making. If I'm going on a hunting trip, if I want to learn about this electric circuit thing I want to learn how to work on the lawn mower, I ask people, "Teach this to me like I'm in ninth grade." and I walk away learning how to actually do this thing.

>> Okay? >> And at least even if there's no way you're going to leave that conversation feeling great, right? Like, oh, he's going to be like, you're going to realize, oh, I got a decade's worth of work to do, but you'll have real information and an actual lit path on what direction to take.

>> Okay? >> I think you're going to feel a whole lot better when this is knocked out. I would reach out to a couple of state attorneys in your area and just get a feel and go with the one that you like, that you trust, and have them explain it to you and have them walk you through what what is this going to cost to set up. It might be a few thousand bucks, but you will sleep so much better at night knowing that you've taken care of your family and now we're on track for retirement.

or work around it. There's one path only and it's through it, right? And often that path is lit with real information.

And so getting real information on a special needs trust, using the uh Ramsay retirement calculator to say how many dollars will equal this many dollars, right? >> Getting facts on paper because your emotions will cloud your judgment and you'll just feel overwhelmed >> all the time. And facts on paper give you a path forward.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options.

Take care of your dad gum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. >> To just miss you.

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by George Camel taking your calls. 88 8255225.

Let's go out to Htontown and talk to Gary. What up Gary?

>> Hey guys, how are you? >> We're good my brother. What's up with you?

>> Good. Oh, not too much really. Uh, enjoy the show. Um, my question is I've been

happily married uh for coming up on 26

years. Um, you know, I I hit the hit the

wife lottery. Um, we've been sort of

financially very fortunate uh during our

ma marriage. Um and you know at this

point we're we're in a very good place

uh financially but you know we have

never really

followed or kind of strictly adhered to

any sort of budget um during that entire

time. Um, you know, I have tried,

you know, throughout the years, you know, at various points to, you know,

get my wife on board with at least sort of looking and following some sort of budget, but, you know, probably mostly

my fault. Those, you know, those discussions just end up in in arguments.

And you know I just wonder at this stage at this point in our lives I'm you know considering you know I'm looking at retirement hopefully in the next few years or the ability to retire you know is it is it

worth it to continue to try and fight that battle and you know uh you know if sort of if

we've made do and gotten by with the way we've been doing it is it worth it to try and you know get that try and

continue to get her on board.

>> I I I have like a a physical aversion

>> to the words just getting by.

>> Yeah. Maybe I I I shouldn't say, you know, maybe that's the the wrong word as far as, you know, it we we're just in a

you know, we're in a we're in a good place. >> Have y'all just outearned your spending for all of your marriage?

>> Pretty much. Okay. pretty much.

>> So, let me ask you this. >> That's just been me on a single, you know, and that's maybe just being lucky on how we are. It's me and me on a a single salary that whole time, but yeah.

>> So, just just talking to you and me and George and a couple million people, just us three us three guys.

>> Um, why do you want her on a budget?

Well, you you know I so it's of course

you know as we consider retirement you know the spigot >> yep >> the earning spigot is going to is going to turn off and you know we want to you know frankly we want to be you know I want to be able to sort of stressfree live the retirement we you know we both

want you know >> so so if you sit down with her >> Yeah >> and talk about a budget

as a path to

and and I'm going to use language that Texas males don't use. Okay?

>> If you sat down with your wife and said, "Hey, we're heading into retirement. Our life is about to change dramatically timewise, financially, all of it.

And I won't feel safe in my own skin

unless we have a plan with our money.

Would you join me in that?

Versus her feeling like a budget is you trying to control her.

>> Right. If you were open and honest about, hey, I want to solve for peace in

the fourth quarter of our life, the back half, the third quarter, and the fourth quarter, and that means here's what peace looks like for for me. I'd love to hear what peace looks like for you, and then how can we agree together on

here's how many dollars are going to come in from our investments, from our retirement accounts, etc., and here's what it costs to live our life.

and just live in that reality as a way to have peace and inside your own chest to feel safe.

If she won't join you in that, if she looked at you and rolled her eyes and was like, "I'm driving this Suburban. I don't care what you say." Then A,

you know what she truly thinks about you.

And B, yeah, there is a futility to that because you've married somebody who doesn't care about you. Really doesn't care about her, doesn't care about anything other than what I want right this second. My hope is that's not the case. My hope is for 20 years when you've brought up budgeting, it's been about you're spending too much.

Why'd you buy this? We didn't need that. We don't even have a budget. And then she just decides to to to go to war back with you, right?

>> She associates the word budget with stressful money fights >> compl yet another complaining husband. I do all of this, so I deserve this and you come home and you got another box from Amazon. Right.

And I don't know if that's the case. Does that sound familiar? >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's I

think that's fair. You know, I've listened to you guys and I've tried to, you know, the last time I brought it up, you know, it was sort of eye statements.

You know, >> it was on a vacation. You know, it was about a trip and, you know, it came up

last minute and um you know, I I said

no, we can't do that. And I tried to go back and later explain you know I am

concerned about you know how we do that but we just sort

of went back to you know my first reaction which was no and said well that really caused stress and stress out the way I you know so I

don't you know there there's equal blame on >> sure >> equal blame I don't want to make it sound like it's just her.

>> No, of course not. But o own that own that up front. I'm sure >> I have not done a great job of talking about this for the last 25 years.

>> Yeah. Are there I guess are there kind

of tools or resources that I should read or

you know I don't maybe I'm just a bad at it but

um >> I think it's just a different approach.

I don't think you need to read a whole book. >> I'm writing the book right now actually. I just left a meeting right before this show. I'm writing that book right now.

It's just not how it won't come out till October, I think. But um so it's not not out in the world that I know yet. >> Just save the word budget for the very end into the how are we going to do this? All right, we'll just make a a financial plan.

It happens to be called a budget. But start with the vision, the dream, the fear. >> What do we want our life to look like? >> Man, we've just floated through and we've done really well, but I have not done a good job leading us in this area and really crafting a vision for what's going to happen when I don't want to work or can't work anymore.

So, I'm uh I'm I'm 53.

Uh she is a little bit a little bit

older than that.

>> What's your net worth? >> And so, probably about five and a half to to 6 million. >> Amazing. So, you guys are living pretty good. >> We Well, that's you know, and uh I guess it's you know, >> you could retire today. probably I I probably could, but you know, it it's sort of, you know, believe it or not, just it you look back and it's, you know, it's an obscene amount of spending that.

>> Well, are things feeling tight? Cuz you can still say, "Hey, we've done really well. It's crazy that we've worked this hard, have this level of net worth, and things still feel tight." I would love to have extra right.

>> Yeah. Right now, I mean, absolutely, they do not feel tight. Um, you know,

>> so, so a budget for her isn't a matter of survival. A budget for y'all isn't a matter of survival. It's a really a tool to bring you all together and say, "What do we want the next 25 years to look like?" And that's a totally different conversation. That's a different path.

>> It's a transparency and clarity tool.

>> Yeah. Take take her on a half-day retreat and say, "I want to plan our next 25 years, and I'd love to hear what you want that to look like.

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Let's talk to Daniel in De Moine, Iowa.

What's up, Daniel?

>> Hey, guys. So good to talk to you.

>> You too, brother. What's up, man?

>> Just hopefully a quick question here.

But, um, I am looking at taking a uh

position in full-time ministry later this year. Um, and I'm wondering is it

number one, is it morally okay for me to take a religious a religious exemption from uh social security and Medicare?

And then number two, if it is um is it

wise uh kind of considering I guess the

circumstances I'm in.

>> What are your circumstances?

>> So nothing huge. I mean me and my wife were debtree besides the house. Um,

we're already investing 15% into uh,

retirement. Um, but we have a baby on the way. And, um, the other thing too is is going into a position like this, I'd actually probably be taking about a 20k

uh, pay cut. Um, so those are kind of

it. And and the other thing too, I guess, is um, I wouldn't be hired on as a W2. It' be a 1099. So, I'd be paying

the the full extent of of Social Security and Medicare that like I think it's what around 15% if if I if I were

not to uh take that exemption.

>> So, it sounds like you've already made this choice. This there's a lot of reasons this is a tough move.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> There's a lot to think about, too, of what you're giving up here. And listen, I love the idea of not having to pay all these extra taxes for a system that isn't giving me great returns. But you got to think about things like term life insurance. You get strong term life in place if something were to happen to you. Strong long-term disability insurance cuz you lose that with SSDI

long-term care insurance. >> And I've got Yeah. And I've got the long-term I I've got or I guess I should say I got term life insurance. We're good there at the long-term disability.

That is one thing I was I was thinking about, too. Um, but yeah. Yep.

>> What what I what I've I'm going to be honest. I have a I have a bias to this question and my bias is not representative of reality. It's just my experience. And that is I've just sat

with too many 60 and 70 year old pastors who lived on property, lived in a church

house, and got paid pennies

and they have zero nothing.

>> Yeah. And so the discipline it would

take for me personally to never waver in

saving for future me and future wife and

future family.

Um I I I I can say I don't think I would

have that type of discipline. And so while these programs are a mess, an absolute dumpster fire, they are still something. Sure.

>> Right. And my fear is you're not doing this not because you have another long-term plan in place. You're doing this because you're trying to make this job that you really feel called to take financially palatable today

>> and that's making a decision.

>> Absolutely. Yes. I'm definitely trying to to bridge the gap between between the the pay I'm getting now anyway and the pay I would be getting. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely make it a lot easier.

>> And again, that's solving a problem for f for today you, but it's really leaving future you high and dry.

>> Yeah. If you're having to justify this by saying, well, if I take the exemption, I'll get, you know, 10% back, but you're not going to be investing the difference that you're saving >> if it's already tight. And if your income stays pretty low for the rest of your life, all to get an exemption, well, that was a terrible plan, >> right? Right. So, and as I was looking into this and looking into all the all the different things anyway, um tax

benefit wise anyway, like housing allowances and all this stuff too, um I I think it would be palatable anyway to

um actually keep investing just about the the same amount we are right now.

Um, and if I did take that exemption, it

wouldn't be so much as a 20,000 pay cut

as probably more of a 10 to 12 pay cut,

which is still And my wife works too, so she's making uh okay money, too. And and

so I'm kind of Yeah, I might just be trying to justify this all, but yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm in.

>> So, let me ask you this hard question.

Can you afford to do this?

>> Yeah, it would be tighter, but I mean, we've looked into it and and you know, I felt this call for shoot probably the last 5 years. And

even for if I was to completely take a step away from the money side of it, too. Um, for our future family, I think

this this would probably be still the right right thing to do. um just because

of of I know there's, you know, there's definitely different stresses in ministries, but the job I'm in now, you know, I haven't been happy with since since I got into it six or seven years ago. >> Oh, there's there's few stresses like full-time ministry stress. I grew up in the home of a ministry. It's it's it's chaotic and it's it's noble and it's worthy and it's awesome, right? Um, I I have a gut reaction growing up in this household, a gut reaction to groups of

church leaders who pay ministers very

low and expect them and their families

to show up in certain ways that are financially impossible. Right? So, I that's that's my own baggage. I won't put that on you. Um, is this new job going to give you opportunity? Will you have time? I know a lot of ministers do stuff on the side. My dad had a mowing business on the side for for seasons or he we did janitorial work to help make the bills during those seasons. Do you have um opportunities where you could do that, too?

>> Yes. Yeah. So, I'm I'm working as an electrician full-time right now. Um so, outside of that, there's definitely, you know, side work I could be doing on the side if, you know, if it if we really needed it to.

Um, and and the other thing too that makes me a little bit more comfortable with this is I I've seen the same as you, you know, like ministry positions typically do not get paid very well. This one is definitely on the I think the higher end of of what would normally get paid for this position. So, it's it's definitely more palatable in that way, too.

>> Um, but yeah, there is other ways I could be making income outside of it. >> And and again, I want to say this out loud. We don't do ministry for money, right? Like we don't do it to get rich, right? And >> like that's that's like get struck by lightning kind of thoughts like I want to do this so I can get rich. Like that's not how we do this. >> But also there is a reality it's very very expensive to be alive today.

>> Very very expensive to have a child and to feed and clothe that kid these days, right? And educate that kid. It's just it's insane. And so there is a reality to it also, >> right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's that's one of the other things that uh is kind of just weighing on this decision anyways. We got a baby on the way coming in September and it's our our first one anyway.

And >> you know, I obviously I want to take care of my family, too. >> And and maybe you take this job and you keep hustling on the side for a season to stack cash, >> right?

we can do all the math on paper we want, but there's a lived reality when this is the only amount of money in the checking account and this is the bills we have, right?" And you add a new mouth to feed on top of that >> and she your wife comes home and says, "Hey, I just can't stomach going to work anymore." And do we have a do we have are we setting ourselves up for we're this new value is going to emerge and we can't afford to take that value. Right.

>> Cuz you have to work cuz I took this job. Like so >> which removes your options and flexibility. >> That's right. That's right. So it might be that hey I'm going to keep working electrical work on the weekends and I'm going to keep working electrical work on the evenings and doing odd jobs and whatever so that we can be as flexible

as possible so we can have peace in our house.

Right. >> And by the way, you'll have to pay social security on that side work. And so you'll never escape the system, unfortunately. >> Definitely knew that. >> Yeah. Again, I always want to tell you like what would I do in my house? Um I would I pay into social security and

Medicaid. And so George and you.

>> Yeah. Um I your next steps would be just calculate how much you need to invest yearly to replace all the benefits.

evaluate your insurance, disability, life insurance, make sure that your, you know, organization meets all the IRS rules to do this, and then only proceed if you know this thing is airtight.

You've checked it 27 ways to Sunday, and then you can move forward. But I I would not just go, "Ah, sounds good. Did I have to pay those taxes? I'll take it.

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Well, our team here at Ramsey is super excited. We built a new free AI tool

called Ask Ramsay that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. A lot of themes here. We got creating and managing budgets. A lot of questions around that. how to deal with credit card debt, retiring versus continuing to work. And the number one question this week was around retirement. What was it, John? >> How much do I need to save and when can I expect to retire?

>> You tell me. >> Well, and it's kind of awesome because off air because I have your cell phone number. I've called you several times and been like, "Hey, I have a retirement question or what about this fund? Should I move this money over here?" And not everybody has your cell phone number.

>> Now, I just text John back with the link to ramiesolutions.com.

I'm not your human Google, John.

>> But it's like having it's like this is like having George or Dave or me or Rachel or Kin like Jade in your pocket >> because it's literally it's built on things we've said on the show. All of our articles that we've written. And so this is really good. I want to take this for a test drive and see how it does with this question. How much do I need to save and when can I expect to retire?

Again, this is a free thing. You guys can jump on ramseyolutions.com and use that Ask Ramsey search bar to ask your question. So, uh I'm going to pull this up. Our team's going to pull up my screen here.

So, if I fat finger something, I'm sorry. There's no Wizard of Oz today. Just me. All right.

Let's see what it spits out. And what's really cool, John, is it analyzes the question and asks me follow-up questions. So, it's a real conversation just like you'd have on the Ramsay show. And we're going to see what kind of follow-up questions it asks.

I'm guessing it's going to need to know, well, how much do we have saved? When do we want to retire? >> All right. I'm going to kick some stuff.

I'll kick some numbers to you. Okay. >> Okay. So, it's going to Yeah.

Let me go scroll to the bottom here. So, it's walking me through how to calculate your nest egg. If you want to have this much, here's how to calculate that. And at the bottom, it says, "What do you think your monthly budget would look like in retirement?" >> All right, let's pretend we have I >> I'll put a big number up there.

Let's say we're going to have $7,000 a month in expenses.

>> Let's say between me and my wife, we have $500,000 in retirement.

>> Okay. >> And let's pretend I could go back in time and I'm, I don't know, 35 years old. >> Got it. Must be nice. and I want to invest 500 bucks a month.

>> I will invest 500 a month. Okay, let's

see if it can figure out how much we really need to create this nest egg,

live off of the income once we are work optional or fully retired. And it's working it's working its tail off here.

Here we go. Found five Ramsey resources.

It recapped our situation, our monthly retirement goal, and it says here we go.

It's calculating based off a 7 to8% uh

withdrawal. Here it's showing us our target nest egg is about 1.1 to $1.2 million not including social security or any other income stream. So it says, are you on track? Right now you already have 500,000 saved and it's going to continue to grow. It will reach about 2.7 million in 30 years at age 65. That's pretty

incredible. So it's telling us we are on track and if you invest more, you could have more and that makes me feel really good. Thanks. Ask Ramsey. Yeah, not bad.

It's that easy. >> That's pretty great. >> Not a lot of people can get through the phone lines and googling things is going to send you into 19,000 rabbit holes.

That is not the Ramsay advice that you trust. So, go check out for yourself. Go to ask your question. Ramseyolutions.com.

You'll see the search bar there. It says ask Ramsay or you can click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. >> All right, let's go out to Santa Fe, New Mexico, one of my favorite places in the United States, and talk to John. What's up, John?

>> Hey, John. said, "Hey, George. How's it going?" >> We're doing great, brother. How can we help, man?

>> So, I'm buying my first vehicle. Uh >> Oh, hey. >> Sorry. You're breaking up on >> Yeah, you're breaking up for me.

>> Sorry. >> Are you inside of a tunnel?

>> All right. We might have to try you again later.

>> Oh. >> All right. We tried our best. We'll try to get you on a clear line here. Um I will go out to Christy in St. Louis instead. >> Let's talk. What number is she? Four.

What's up, Christie?

>> Hi. Hey, how are you guys? >> Remarkable. How are you?

>> I'm doing pretty well. Um, I just had a question. I am 28 and my fiance is 26.

Um, we are planning to get married in

like April of 2027 and I'm trying to figure out kind of how we're going to pay for that. We did get the or a gift

from his parents that they're going to spend about $25,000 um to help us with the wedding and we're budgeting about $40,000 just with extra costs and all that kind of stuff. Um but I have about

$69 to $70,000 in student debt. We don't

have any other debt. And I'm wondering

if we should use part of that gift money to put down towards my loans or if we

should put all of it down towards the wedding and then cash flow the rest or put all of it down towards my loans and cash flow the whole wedding. Or >> George may disagree with me. I I would not take a gift from my fiance's parents to pay off our my student loans.

>> I would use that money towards the cost of your >> wedding. We haven't we haven't told them. Yeah. We haven't told them that's what we're thinking about potentially.

>> I would not do that. I if I gave my kids

like Yeah. I I wouldn't do that. If they said, "Hey, this is y'all free and clear to use however you want." That's a different story. If they said, "Hey, we want you all to start your your marriage off debtree. We're going to pay your student loans." That's that's another thing. But them saying, "Hey, we want to support.

We know you guys are struggling. We y'all are working really hard. we're going to give you $25,000 to help pay for a nice wedding. Um, and y'all were

like, "Cool. We're going to use that to paint the house." That would not be cool. >> That's my take on it. What do you think, George? >> No, I agree. If it was going to like clear your debt today and it frees you guys up to cash flow this whole thing, then I'd be like, "Okay, that makes sense." Like, you're essentially just trading the money one way or another.

But I would just use this money for the wedding because you need it. It's not like you just have $100,000 sitting around. >> Yeah. The the hold the option you're not mentioning is you and your fiance

deciding we're going to do our wedding for $25,000 and essentially putting 15 grand towards your student loans.

>> Yeah, that was another option. The only problem is we did put a deposit down on a place. It's an all-inclusive um in Florida, which is where we're wanting to get married because our families live out there. Um and it's going to be about 28,000 for the actual wedding, but that's only if it's 100 people.

And we all know that that's probably not going to happen. It's probably like 120 and then they charge per head. So, we're trying to like buffer that a little bit. We're expecting it to not cost the 40,000, but we really just want to have a safe buffer.

Um, >> okay. But hold on. >> We're okay. Which >> hold on.

as though this thing is happening to you.

And I want you and your fiance to get back in the driver's seat of your own lives. The only things that are going to happen with this wedding are what y'all sign your name to and what y'all allow.

>> It's true. >> And so if there's only a hundred spaces, there is only a hundred spaces. And we're going to have to be grown-ups and tell Aunt Edna's cousin's sister's dog's roommate, you can't come.

>> Yeah. And I'm very okay with that. Like I'm very much like a I'm going to set a boundary and I don't need these cousins at my wedding. But he's on the other side. You got a really big family.

>> Well, and I can guarantee you his parents' $25,000 investment is gonna That's >> strings attached. >> There's strings attached. >> And Edna will be on the invite list.

>> And so that might mean What did you What are you in for this wedding venue if you canceled today?

>> Uh we put five or $500, sorry, $500 down

for the deposit.

>> I would much rather lose 500 than 15,000.

And we could pay a $500 stupid tax and say, "Whoa, let's get back in the driver's seat." >> Yeah. The only thing is though, like >> I know you don't want to do it. I know. I know you don't want to do it.

>> But here's the thing.

Well, my student loans actually um I needed that because I got a master's in physician assistant studies. So, I make like a really good salary and I needed that for that um for that job. So, >> what do you guys make a year once you're married?

>> So, once we're married, he'll be a a captain in the Air Force. So, he's going to be making like 110 gross salary and

I'm making the Louis Oliver make right now, which is like 100. And then I'll be making like 120 to 150.

>> Awesome. So you guys can knock out this debt quick once you're married. So that's good. And you should be able to cash flow the rest of the wedding without issue if you continue on, right?

>> Yeah. Well, my thing Yeah. I was going to right now I'm starting to hopefully bonus at my job because I have the ability to do that. So I'm right now putting down about $2,500 a month towards my loans and then I'm putting down $4,000 a month when I start actually when I move in with him in like two months. >> Awesome. So, I'm going to be chunking it down and I'm not going to be putting anything down towards the mortgage with him. He's going to cover the mortgage.

So, that's going to be a godsend. Um, but then I was also thinking like to get Gazelle intense, why don't I just also in addition to my 50 hours a week, go pick up, you know, a Door Dash job and then save more >> before you're married, spend every spare moment you can stacking cash and getting this this debt off.

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This is a great great resource. I love it. All right, let's go back to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and try John again. Hey,

John. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Much better. We can hear you well. What's up, dude?

>> The reception in this building is not very great. I'm doing good. Um, so I am

buying my first vehicle uh this coming up Monday. Um, I'm buying it from a co-orker at work. Um, she is selling it for um, $2,000. The truck is worth about

three. Um, I'm trying to figure out how

much um, insurance coverage I should get on it. I've been checking different policies. I've been uh checking um you

know I getting quotes from two or three different companies trying to figure out which ones are better with you know claims and rates and all sorts of different things and just trying to figure out with the truck being worth so low how much coverage should I get on it. >> Where are you at financially?

>> Um so I'm just started working at my

first job um within the past um I think

I've been about here six months or so, six, seven months. So, I have about a

little over I believe 1,500 saved in my

emergency fund. >> Okay. >> I have just under um 4,000 in a um in my

car fund. So, I have plenty of money for the truck and also for repairs. Um and

then um I have a pretty good um

uh mainting account as well. So, like I'm so I'm financially stable from where I'm at at the moment. >> Do you have any debt? >> I do not have any debt.

>> Okay. So, let's talk about your >> Can I just shout you out for getting a $2,000 truck and not getting your first job and going out and buying the biggest, dumbest truck you can get like I did. Good for you, bro. I didn't know those things.

>> My parents My parents have taught me. Well, >> can I ask what truck this is? Cuz I want it now. >> Yes.

>> Oh, yes. >> Epic. >> Yes. Gen one, dude. Did you get a pre-purchase inspection on it?

>> Um, they got an inspection um a few months ago whenever they were first talking about selling it. Um, and so I know what needs to be fixed and they've been doing some minor things like spark plugs and oil changes. That way all I really need to do are some a couple major things. >> Okay, cool. And you have the money set aside for that. >> Yes, >> bro. I have a Gen One Tundra and I love it. I love it. Well done.

>> So, you're talking about how much coverage should you get because it's so cheap. >> Yes. >> All right. So, the one you definitely need, it's non-negotiable, is your liability insurance, >> correct? >> I like to go 250, 500, 250. That's your

split on that.

>> And that's because if you hit somebody, the chances of their car being 50 grand

is >> Yeah. That's 250k per person bodily injury, 500k per accident bodily injury, and 250k property damage. So, that's the part that it doesn't matter what car you're driving, you need to protect everything else. >> Okay? So beyond that, we're talking comprehensive coverage, which is, you know, theft, fire, weather, all of that.

If you're like, "Hey, I could probably cut this because I can replace the car.

If for were to burn up, I can just go buy a different one." And then same with collision. If there was damage to your car from an accident, insurance isn't going to write you a check if you don't have that. >> So if the car is paid off, it's older and low value, which yours is, and you could replace it from savings, then I would do it.

>> Okay? >> Cuz you're riding it fairly tight between the money you have for the car fund and your emergency fund to where you get one more emergency on top of the car being, you know, done. Now, we got a

real situation on our hands. So, I would personally get it for peace of mind so I can sleep good and once I'm doing a little better, more money in savings, then you might want to look at dropping uh, you know, collision or comprehensive. >> Okay. And then also, um, with the collision comprehensive, um, would it be a smart idea cuz I'm

using my car fund for repairs and also saving up for a new car, um, like a better car, you know, a few years down the line. I'm gonna pretty much ride this one to the ground if I can. Um, so

would it be better to get a like a $500

deductible or a $1,000 deductible?

>> If you can swing the $1,000 deductible, it'll lower your premium. And so because you have the money and you could handle the extra $500 of risk, I would take that. >> Okay. >> And the one other thing you should look into is uninsured and underinsured motorist protection.

>> Mhm. >> You know, if medical expenses, if if you're hit by an uninsured driver, hit and run injuries. We're seeing more and more of this sadly where the person driving the car didn't have insurance and so you're not getting anything.

>> So that's worth having and what I would do is jump on ramseolutions.com/insurance and we have trusted pros, a whole network of them across the country, including in Santa Fe that can help you price all of it out and say, "Hey, what would it be if I added this? Okay, what if I took that away? What coverage do you think I should have based on my situation?" They'll walk you through all of that so that you're confident in what coverage you're getting and getting you the best price cuz they'll shop the top companies. >> And John, let me tell you, in my house, I have a a new fancy Tundra.

wife's car and I have my old Gen One

Toyota that we use out in on for hunting trips and stuff like that. I have full

coverage on the two nicer cars. I have

liability on the Tundra and basically I'm just making a deal with the devil that if it wrecks if I wreck it or somebody hits it, it's just gone.

>> Okay? >> And so, but I do, even though I don't have a payment on the other cars, I do cuz those are nice and I want them to be replaced if something happens to them.

So, I pay more for that coverage. Now, I also want to tell you one more thing. I have a Gen One Tundra. I drove it for years before I spent crazy money trying

to make it cool.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm not interested in bells and whistles. >> I know, but dude, this is like a this is

a drug. Once you put that first thing on it and then the second thing on it, you're going to start seeing cool Tundras everywhere. You're going to be like, "Oh, I want to get new suspension.

I want to get bigger tires." And so, just continue to hold the line like you've done so far. >> Okay, >> that would be awesome. And by the way, >> I have a feeling this car will outlast you. So driving trying to drive it into the ground, best of luck to you.

>> Did you mention how many miles it has on it? >> It doesn't matter. >> Just over just over 300,000.

>> Yes. I just wanted to know to let people because they they go, "John, it's got 100,000 miles. It's going to burn up on the interstate tomorrow." And I >> Oh, no. >> It's a Toyota. >> We've driven the Alcan in our Toyota and Honda like three times. So I mean, and both of them have over two or three hundred miles on it. So yeah, fantastic.

We're used to that. try to set a world a world record. >> Well, it's it's just not hard with those that >> I think someone did over 500,000.

>> Oh, easy. >> Pretty incredible. >> Yeah. Well done, man. Well done. Um, man, you're a wise young man. That's good for you. >> Very few young guys are thinking this way. Yeah. >> Most guys are picking up a $1,000 truck payment >> a month. Not a $2,000. And by the way, can we be honest? This truck doesn't look nice. I >> not turning heads at the stoplight.

Except for bad reasons. They're like, "Oh my gosh." >> No, no, no. There's There's tons of people who are like, "That's awesome. >> It's rock and roll. That's pretty rad.

But yeah, he's not going to meet somebody and she'll be like, "I'm falling in love with you because of your truck." That's not going to happen here. If somebody goes out with him, he'll know, "Oh, she really likes me." Right.

It's not going to be because this truck looks cool. But man, that's so wise for

future him. >> Yep. And honestly, a good, you know, $200 detail, you'll feel like it's brand new to you. >> It's pretty sweet. That's exciting.

>> $200 detail. Where do you get those?

>> That's the going right in my neighborhood. I don't know where you live, John. probably have an upcharge for the family. >> It's way more expensive than that. >> I got a good guy. >> You got a good guy. >> I love the mobile ones. They come to the into the driveway. They get it done >> for $200. >> Yeah. Well, maybe not. You have a gigantic truck. I have tiny toy cars.

>> That is true. That's the difference. >> Tiny electric toy cars. >> There's a lot of square footage. >> Do they use a screened wiper to wipe off a Tesla? >> They They use special gloves.

>> I bet they do. >> They're so sensitive just like me.

>> I bet they do. That's another hour in the books. We'll be right back on the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by George Camel. Let's go out to Columbia, South Carolina and talk to Lee. What's up, Lee?

>> Hi. Hi, John and George.

>> How are we doing, brother?

>> Good. How are you guys? >> We are doing all right, man. man, how can we help?

>> So, I'm trying to uh break out of this

paycheck to paycheck thing and I'm looking for some advice.

>> Excellent. I'm glad you called, man. >> Tell us more. What's your financial situation?

>> So, long story short, I owned a sawmill.

I produce railroad ties, cross ties. I lost my contract two years ago. I went and got another job as a mechanic. I'm making 12280 a week and I have three different loans with mortgage included.

The mortgage is 130 at 4.5 and I have 10

years left on it.

The second one is 5 years on a 4.5

45,000 left on it. And then the last one

is 5 years at 8.5 at 50,000.

Um, that was to clean up my line of credit that I had for the mill. And then I have two credit cards, one 2500, one

2,000, $8,000 that I loan for my family, and then $5,000 miscellaneous.

So, my monthly payments, everything except food like lights, um, mortgage,

and the loan payments are $41.90 a month, and I just can't get out of it.

So, what I'm considering is using the equity from my house. I bought it for

160 with 7 acres just prior to co and I

talked with an auctioneer and he thought he could probably get upwards of 400 for the property.

So, my question is would you guys advise me to do that or hang in there and see what I can work out? >> What did you say your mortgage payment was?

>> It is uh roughly 1,300 a month.

>> Okay. So, it's about a quarter of your Now, that's not your take-home pay, the 1280. Is that gross or is that what actually shows up? >> Gross. >> That's gross. Okay. >> That's gross. Yeah. >> So, it's more than 25% of your take-home pay, but it's not on fire. The mortgage isn't the problem. You're trying to sort of shortcut it and clean up the mess by just selling. Would you just go rent somewhere?

>> Probably. >> Okay. Because you wouldn't be in a spot to buy another place, I'm guessing, if you sold it, took Now, you could clean up all the debt with the proceeds.

Mhm. >> You'd claim the mortgage plus all the other debts which add up to what? What's the total amount of debt you have?

>> Not including the mortgage >> 283US.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you got 150 there. So, yeah. I

mean, you got $150,000 of debt making 60

grand gross.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. The math is not math in here.

Unless there's something that we can sell or liquidate or use a bunch of savings that you have sitting around. Is there anything like that?

I have no savings. I do have my equipment still and that's I don't I'm sure you don't the lumber market is like

murder and so that tanks the value. I

could possibly get 30 to 40,000 for my

equipment and that's about all the assets I have. >> Okay. So that would knock your debt down to you know maybe if we're lucky 110 but then we're still we're making 60 grand.

So, if there's no room for growth with your income right now where you could double that, then selling the house would give you a nice clean slate if you're ready to change your behavior.

>> Well, we are. >> And by we, who else is involved?

>> My wife and I have two children and another one due any day.

>> Wow. Well, congratulations.

>> Well, thank you. >> No time like the present. >> Lots of stress. >> No time like the present to clean this mess up. Yeah. Well, there's other people involved now. Is your wife uh staying home with the kids?

>> She is. And she she would be more than

ready to start clean as well. Um yeah.

>> Could you go rent somewhere for 1,000 bucks if you sold?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. You said that so quickly that I feel good about it. I would personally in your shoes I definitely would consider selling the house. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of variables in your life that are about to change.

There's nothing you could sell. Your income's not going to go up drastically. I don't know that you could get seven side jobs. You could clean this up over the next few years, but I think with the stress of the baby on the way, it would just be so much more freeing to sell the property, rent for a while, and start to rebuild a solid foundation.

>> And your um you said this property that

you bought for 160 is now worth 400

>> roughly. Yes. Our area has seen a rampant increase in uh commercial

manufacturing and etc. And we're also close to an army base, so there's a lot of people looking for houses.

>> Okay. Um, I would not

take the word of an auctioneer.

>> Okay. >> I would go to ramseyolutions.com/market

and get with one of our um real estate pros, >> okay? >> Who will come in and do comps in the area, projections in the area because you may at your your property sold at auction may be at 400. It may sell in the housing market at 600.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And so >> because I know a similar >> similar property trailer house with an acre or two sold for 400 like very close to me. >> Yeah. Like your area sounds a lot like what happened in Nashville a few years ago and stuff got bananas,

>> right? And so I would sit down with a true real estate professional that you trust and we have a whole network of them that I'd suggest you you get with.

That's who I get got with when I sold and bought houses. Um, so it's not I'm

not asking you to do something I wouldn't ask I I didn't do it with my own family. But get a true price on what

this property will go for.

>> And here's the the other thing. You and your wife have to make an ironclad commitment.

>> Because if this works, you're going to be sitting on what? 250, $300,000 cash.

>> You can sneeze and that money is going to be gone. >> Cuz suddenly she'll need a new car.

You'll need to upgrade your truck. You're going to want to do this. And that money will just be gone. Y'all will have to make an ironclide commitment that this money goes into retirement.

This money goes into an emergency fund.

We never ever ever ever ever borrow money again. Ever.

>> Mhm. >> And we have to learn to live on a budget with our $65,000 a year salary.

>> Sure. >> Cuz you're going to feel rich for a minute. >> And bro, you're going to burn your You're going to crack open your nest egg at a real young age with really young kids, man. You're going to be in a mess.

>> Yeah. >> So, the game plan >> we're both ready for something different. >> Good. >> Good. So the game plan would be if and when you sell, use the proceeds to pay down all of your debt. The money left over is going to become your emergency fund. 3 to 6 months. I would lean towards 6 months. Single income family with three kids. I'd feel a whole lot better having 6 months of expenses saved up. And then beyond that, any money beyond even that, then it's okay. We can start saving back up for down payment.

Let's not get out of the housing market for too long. Cuz guess what? The next house you buy is probably going to be a half million dollars. So, you're going to need a giant down payment to make that payment work with your $60,000 income, >> right?

>> So, that's the homework is we're going to put this all to good use. And like John said, no lifestyle creep. We're not having fun here. This was a reset.

>> Yeah. I mean, it it just burns you down every day trying to get on it. I We've made progress. ly paid off a $13,000 credit card last year, but it just >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you got a mountain ahead of you with that 150. And so that would based on the math, it's a decade plus just to get rid of this. So, I would sell. I would rebuild. I try to get that income up. And you guys will survive this >> and be renting for a while.

Hey good folks, Dr. John Deloney here.

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Today's question comes from Abigail in Pennsylvania. My husband and I are at a crossroads and need your home buying advice. Should we buy a house that is affordable but not in a city that we love or rent for another year until we can afford to buy where we prefer to live?

>> It's a no-brainer for me. >> It's the quickest uh of the day ever.

>> I'm renting for another year to get the thing I want. It's called delayed gratification. If there was some sort of like urgency, we have to move now for whatever reason, then move now. But then you're kind of stuck there. You don't want to be buying a house and selling a year later. That's going to cost you. So rent for another year. Home. Buying a home is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make. So do it with caution and be planted there. >> I don't even have anything to add.

>> That's just my That's my take. One man's opinion, but I want to live somewhere that I enjoy living. >> Did I It's not even that.

>> Is that too much to ask? >> I want to live where I want to live.

>> And if it's going to take one more year of sacrifice, then outstanding. So be it. >> I just I'm glad they didn't say or should we just buy a house now we can't afford in the area? That's That was my fear. That's a very different question.

Yeah, >> but if you're willing to wait, just do it right the first time. >> Let's go out to Philadelphia where we were born and raised and talk to Melody.

What's up, Melody?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Outstanding. How are you?

>> We're doing great, thanks. I am calling today because we have started an addition on our home and because of change of plans,

um we're going to add a little bit more to it. um and increase cost. We are

maxed at our budget. So, I was looking for some advice.

>> I was looking for some advice. Do we take a home equity loan? No.

>> Or should I sell some stock that I have?

>> Oh, I didn't know we had an option B. This is nice. How much do you have in stocks?

>> Um, so I have a brokerage account. This isn't a retirement. And there's about 328,000.

>> Well, let's go. How much of that are you going to need to liquidate to finish this renovation?

>> Uh, I'm thinking around 60,000.

>> Okay. Are we like going to spit shake that this is 60 grand and it's not going to turn into 150 grand?

>> It's already done that.

>> Yeah, >> we've already been down this road.

>> You know what? It jolly it jolly well may. You know, it's kind of touch and go

with the price of construction costs and

they >> rise and fall. Well, they rise.

>> But you didn't you didn't sign a contract that said, "I'm going to build this for this price." >> No, our builder it my husband's able to work with him. So, he works at an hourly rate. Um, and we are purchasing the um

building material. >> Yeah. But this are are are you saving money in your left hand that's costing you more money in your right hand?

>> Meaning if you had never thought of that >> if you had signed a contract and said I want this this addition for $210,000

shake hands. They are responsible for sourcing materials when they continue to go up and up and up and up and up. But by saying, "Hey, we can do this for 175,000 just by I I'll GC it and I got a guy who

will work hourly." Now y'all are into

significant. You see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. >> It it may be too late for that, but man, >> we're we're very in we're much in a position where we don't have solid answers or solid >> That's the part that scares me because this could be an endless project. Yep.

>> And so I would get some real hard numbers before continuing this thing.

What is your house worth before the addition?

>> Uh, according to Zillow, around 300,000.

>> What's the total addition going to cost you based on what you currently know with all the extra you're going to have to put in?

>> 75,000.

>> Okay. And you said you still need 60 to go. So, you thought this thing was going to cost you 15?

>> No, no, no. I'm sorry. 75 was the original. What happened was it's going to be a fourc car garage and we thought, "Oh, let's add in second floor." >> Okay. So, it's going to be really $135,000 addition >> probably. >> Almost 50% of the home value. We're adding. Are there homes in your on your street that are worth that?

Cuz I'm scared you're going to overbuild the neighborhood. Nobody's looking for a $500,000 home when the rest are 350.

>> We're We're going to stay here our whole life. It's This is not something that

we're we're looking to ever >> How old are you guys? >> Move or sell. >> Uh 47 48 years old.

>> Wow. You're talking 50 more years in this house. >> I wish I was as confident as you. I love my house in my neighborhood, but man, I'm not bold enough to make that statement. I it you you have transformed this project into a I'm oversimplifying it, but a four-pillar four-wall project to a

twostory addition. I think that's worth

hitting the pause button and going and talking to a contractor to see what it would cost to do this thing.

>> And if you might come back and it's triple the price and y'all are still in better shape, great. I would at least want that peace of mind because once you start adding second floors, dude, I want this thing insured and bonded and I want it done right.

>> That's that's just me and that's what I would do at my house. What I pay guys hourly to do all kinds of stuff.

>> I would not pay people hourly to do this big of a project. >> You want the full scope for something this big. What was the brokerage account earmarked for?

You know, honestly, that's kind of like our savings. When we have extra money, we buy stock and we look at it as if we

need it, it's going to grow.

>> Okay. >> It will grow till we need it. >> So, this wasn't for something else. So, now we're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

It's totally fine if you use some of this money to finish the addition.

>> Correct. >> Okay. I would calculate how much you'll pay in capital gains tax returns.

>> Right. Well, that that's kind of the concern. And with the high returns right now on the market and the

percentage rate of buying right now, which one is the better choice for us?

>> Well, I could tell you I would take off immediately. Again, as for me and my house, I would not put on the block the

very house I'm trying to put an addition on that's supposed to be my house for the next 50 years. And when you take out a heliloc to fund another project on that same house, you're putting the house itself on the block. I would not do that.

So, whatever you do, we are not going into debt for this addition. And if you do want to continue on, I would liquidate parts of the brokerage. And you can you can kind of choose which stocks are selling off and you want to choose the ones that are going to have the least amount of capital gains. And if you need help with that, you can reach out to a Smart Investor Pro. You can go to Ramseyolutions.com for that.

But John, I was reminded of this verse from uh Luke 14 that I just want to read out loud because it's so perfect for this situation. For which of you intending to build a tower does not sit down first and count the cost whether he has enough to finish it? Lest after he has laid the foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish." That's a that's a roast right there.

>> I mean, I

don't put a shovel in the ground until I've shaken hands and we've agreed on a price >> because that's an endless >> endless. And I don't I don't trust

myself. I like the fact that when I shake hands, there is always a if you

change after today, not only is it going

to add cost for the whatever you want to to actually change and do, there is a percentage penalty and that puts a that

puts an extra hurdle, an extra set of brakes on my whims and let's just do this and let's just do this because she's right. it's going to be let's add a second story and then it's like well let's just put a bathroom up here and that's going to turn into we need to have an another entrance.

>> Well, we're gonna be here for the rest of our lives. We might as well make it what we want. >> Yes. And suddenly you've burned through that brokerage account and you're taken out of here. >> Well, if you're take the problem is it's exacerbated when you take out debt because you're using your house like a piggy bank and so it's so much easier to go well we can just do more. Yeah, we don't have the cash. We can just take more on the line of >> credit. If if every time you

sell one of those stocks, you have to pay the capital gains on it, you're going to be very particular about what you sell and how much money you're bringing in, and that's going to act as a set of breaks on this endless >> build. Bringing friction back into the process is the way to make a wiser decision. >> And and I I trust Melody that she's

going to live in this house for 50 years.

I don't see that happen almost ever, ever, ever. >> I'll be impressed. Call us back when you're 97. Let us know.

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users on Google Play. Let's go out to

Dallas, Texas and talk to Ann. Hey Ann,

what's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

>> Yeah, thank you. I'm so grateful actually that someone can look at my situation from outside of the box.

I am considering to file a bankruptcy

and I was wondering if you would recommend doing that or not. Honestly, I

don't want to do that because I'm very grateful that, you know, the banks gave me that money back when I needed it. So,

I want to pay it back, but I feel like I

just can't.

>> All right. Well, tell tell us about your situation. How much do you owe?

>> So, I owe I have five credit cards and

um two business loans. That totals to

123,000.

And I also al about I owe about 35,000

to the IRS and back taxes. Um I used to

make about 150 for years,000

a year. Um and in 20124 I made only

52,000.

In 2025 I made 39,000.

>> I did um you know start doing all kinds of you know gigs and you know delivery

and driving for Uber. I set up an eBay

store. I started selling everything, you know, my expensive suits and, you know, things trying to help me. Um, I also had to

file for forbearance last year. I've been out of forbearance for about 9 months and I just had to

file for another one and I'm in the second one and um but the good thing is my car is

paid off. >> Good. All right. So before we get to the actual money part, okay, what what were you doing for your job when you were making 150 grand and what are you doing now making only 40?

>> Um um I own a business. Well, I sell

real estate. >> Okay, >> that's that's what I did. I sold real estate and um as as you know, I don't know. You know, real estate hasn't been selling very well. >> Yeah, it's been it's been a tough season. Okay. >> Why do you need business loans for real estate?

Uh I back then so when things were great

you know um so 120,000 was for um

marketing and set up the website and

um you know following up with clients they did they took over all my marketing you know front team for me and did everything so I could focus on my clients. >> Okay. And then 60,000 was it's with

Small Business Administration that was taken out during COVID.

>> That that loan is haunting haunting

small business owners still.

>> Um but so George is going to walk you through the money side of this. Okay.

But what I'm hearing is deep deep shame and I want to free you from that. Okay.

You're right. >> Okay. Like you're not the dollar amount

you bring home.

So yes, your business has crashed. Okay.

You are still a person worthy of being loved. You're still a good community member. You're still a fellow Texan,

right? >> Yes. And so >> you have to back out of the the muck and

the mud and the actual stress you have from real bills that need real dollars to pay them. That's all real. Okay. But

on top of that and underneath that, this sense that I am a human failure.

All that is doing is bringing extra weight to an already challenging situation. I want to free you from that.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Let's set that nonsense down. It might be that moving forward, you sell real estate as your side hustle and you get back in the 9 to5, 8 to 5. I'm going to go clock in somewhere and I'm going to go get a real job all day every day with benefits

>> with like get in there and I'm going to do that and I'll sell real estate at night time and on the weekends until the market picks back up. Maybe that's the move. I don't know. But I want you to get to the core.

>> Who am I? And if you're a great real estate agent, what that tells me is you're somebody who serves other people.

You're somebody who listens well. You're somebody who fights for their clients.

And that type of heart is useful in a

million different industries. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And so trying to hang on to my identity as a realtor is drowning you to the tune of 110 grand a year. Let's let that go

and say, "Okay, who am I? I'm somebody who helps people when they when they need help. I'm somebody who shows up.

I'm somebody who listens. I'm somebody who fights for for people. And man, you that opens you up to a a whole suite of different career opportunities that backfill your purpose on the planet.

Okay. >> Mhm. >> Cool. >> Yeah, I like that.

>> Okay. So, let's walk through the money stuff. All right. And are you covering

your four walls right now? Are you covering your your basic bills? Food, rent, utilities, transportation?

>> Yes, that's pretty much the only thing I can cover. And the minimum payments is where I basically like drive for Uber or

sell try to sell stuff, you know, clothes, my old, you know, whatever I own to repay those minimum payments really because I have several of them and they're not small.

>> Yes. >> Each of them like iOS payment alone is 6

$670 every month.

>> And how long is that payment plan for?

Uh, so 35,000. I don't think they had

like a year. >> Okay. Um, >> well, your goal up front is the IRS debt. That one rises to the top because they can really mess with your life. So, we want to get them off our back before we tackle the business loans and the credit cards.

>> Uhhuh. >> Now, that's going to take getting our income up. That's really the variable here that you can control.

>> Okay. >> And so, this is going to be the hard work. It's easy for me to say go get more income, but I can crunch some numbers with you to show you that bankruptcy is not the only option. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it as an option for you because it will destroy your financial life in a whole another way.

>> Yeah, I really don't want to do that or I really don't um I want to, you know, pay everything off. I don't I feel I you know, it's just not right to do that.

>> So, think about it this way. If we reverse engineer this and just put some facts on paper right now and try to just step away from the emotions, if you put this is a big number, but if you put 3,200 bucks towards your debt, you would be debtree within four years.

>> Really? >> Yeah, that's the math. Take you have $158,000 in debt. So, you can divide it by however many months, whatever your goal is, and go, "All right, that's the number I need to come up with for my debt." Now, that means you need to go make $7,000 a month in order to do that,

right? >> Uh-huh. >> You need to have enough money to cover your bills, cover your insurance, basic expenses, and every extra dollar is going toward your debt. And if you do that, within a few years, you can climb out of this, but not making $39,000.

We need to get back up to a six figure income to knock out six figures of debt.

Are you tracking with me? Right.

>> That means I'm going to go find a 50 or $60,000 year job.

Uhhuh. >> and make more every single year. You're going to be so good at your job. They're going to be promoting you so fast.

And if it's self-employed, now self-employment in real estate, it's a tough gig right now. And so to John's point, if you can go find something that is salary, benefits, steady, you're going to feel so much better about climbing out of this because you're not waiting on that next commission check to come through. >> Right. Right.

>> And by the way, four years of $3,200 a month, that sounds insane, right? It's a long time.

around your ankle from bankruptcy is way worse.

>> Yeah. And I've been trying to pay this off for years anyway. I probably paid it

in multiples, but it, you know, it's on me. >> Well, it's whack-a-ole right now. And so, instead, you're going to do the debt snowball method, and I'm going to help you and walk you through this. So, I'm going to gift you my book, Breaking Free from Broke, Total Money Makeover, and give you the Every Dollar Budgeting app, so that you have a game plan instead of just spray and pray. We're rooting for you.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/hold,

I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

The quote of the day is from Bruno Mars.

George's man, George has Bruno Mars tattoos on his chest. He loves that guy.

>> My ceiling in the bedroom.

>> You can't knock on opportunities door and not be ready. All right, let's go out to the 512. Let's go out to Austin, Texas, and talk to Natalie. Hey, Natalie. What's up?

>> Hi guys. I'm so excited to talk to y'all. We're excited to talk to you. What's going on?

>> I am 27 and I'm wondering should I buy a

house this year by myself or wait until

marriage to share that whole experience and homeowner responsibility. Um, we're not engaged yet, but probably headed that way in the next like year or so.

Obviously, I don't want to bank on that happening. >> Oh, you're so wise. a huge it also seems like a huge milestone that I want to share with him, but I also don't want to miss a good opportunity to buy a house.

>> Well, are you financially ready to buy a house on your own right now as it stands? >> Yes. >> Tell me about the the money here. What are you thinking about buying? How much do you have saved?

>> Um, I've got saved about 300,000.

>> Natalie, what are you doing?

>> I've just been blessed >> with it. What's your income? People want to know how you did this.

>> Um, my income fluctuates. Uh, my base is

around 117, but the job I'm in,

um, has some pretty awesome bonuses.

>> And you have no debt?

>> No debt. >> I love it. Okay, hold on. You've been blessed. Yes. Fair. And you've been

really wise and a good steward of this money.

I would like to think so. Yeah, >> because I have lots of friends in

Austin, Texas, and if they had that kind of money, it would be in invested poorly

in really flashy automobiles, houses they can't afford. Like, they would be up to their eyeballs, right? >> You're in like the 0001%.

The fact that you're a single woman, no debt, with 300 grand sitting in the bank. So, you've worked your butt off to be blessed. >> Does this guy know? >> Yeah. I'm very curious because I'd be like, "Let's get married sooner." >> Yeah. What's he What's this idiot waiting on?

>> Cuz not only do you have money, you're like a wise, good human being.

>> Yeah, he does know. And get this, he doesn't let me pay for a single date.

>> Yeah. You know why? Cuz he's Texan. Well done. >> Yeah, he's a good one. >> Yes. Well done. >> I love it. So, should you buy a house? I know you want to share the joy. And the truth is he's going to get the joy of home ownership for the rest of his life.

Like if I if just picture it if he's stepping into the situation and you are fiscally responsible, you've got a reasonable mortgage payment. Now he steps in with his income too and now you guys crush through this mortgage. I don't think he's going to be like, "Man, I just really wish I was there at closing." You know what I mean? And by the way, >> um I I don't know who you've talked to.

I have bought a lot of houses over the years. None of them have been a pleasurable experience.

And and and by the way, that includes

when I am using a mortgage lender that I

trust, a realer that's a friend of mine, and the closing attorney is a is a college roommate of mine. The whole process is still so stress induced. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. And so, I don't know what you've imagined this will be like, but I almost think you would be doing both of y'all a huge favor if you just bought this house.

>> Okay? And don't share the grief with him. >> I mean, he's going to share the grief if he's dating you.

>> Fair point.

>> There are some things to think about though with a long-term decision like this of, you know, where do we both work? Is this going to make sense for us? Are there going to be major renovations? Do I like the area?

Does it have good schools in case we start a family here? So, there are things to think about, but I would go ahead and get your foot in the door of this housing market, especially before it ramps back up, cuz I have a feeling at some point it's going to get crazy again. Wh why why do you feel >> Is the 300 grand just burning a hole in your pocket?

>> Uh I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I'm just so sick and tired of dealing with property management companies. >> Ah, you get to deal with yourself soon enough. >> You're like, "This toilet's not working." Oh, dang it. I got to fix it. >> I got to fix it.

>> Sometimes I would rather just do it myself. >> A true Texan right there. Well, Natalie, I'm so proud of you. Uh I would definitely start shopping.

Start to see what's on the market, what's in their budget. Stick to a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. Make sure the payment's not more than a quarter of your after tax income. And you will be in such good shape.

Cuz once you have dual incomes, maybe you decide once you have a kid, I want to stay home. And it'll be a no-brainer because you did it everything the wise way. >> Or let's just take two years and let's just pay this house completely off, which would be amazing. And then >> she's going to be a multi multi multi-million.

>> Have a paid off house before I'm 30 and I can do whatever I want. That's amazing. Good for you, Natalie. That's awesome, dude.

Let's go out to Houston and talk to Kevin. Hey, Kevin.

>> Hello. How's it going?

>> Good, man. What's up?

>> Uh, yeah. So, basically, um, graduated

law school in May and having a lot of trouble finding positions. I'm about to take the bar exam in a few days and, uh,

just wondering what advice you guys had.

>> What kind of law you want to go into?

Um, well, I was hoping to be in-house counsel somewhere. I would love to do that. That's a little tougher to get into. >> Yeah, that's that's tough for a first year grad. That's almost impossible.

>> Yeah. >> Like that like my students and my friends who are attorneys, um, that was always like a destination. I want to get there one day, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'm also looking into re more realistic options like family law as well. >> Okay. in estate planning. >> So, have you have you >> I've just done Oh, sorry.

>> Are you struggling with Have you sent out a bunch of applications?

>> Yeah, I mean hundreds. I lost track at

this point. >> So, when somebody tells me they've sent out hundreds of resumes, almost always they are applying to online job application inquiries. Is that is that

true for you?

Yeah, I mean I think I would put it into

different categories where, you know, I have tailored applications. I mean, I've

still done hundreds of those and applications through contacts that I know. >> Okay. >> But um yeah, and then the category of

like, okay, let's just put a resume in,

put a cover letter in, and see where we go from there. and and and personally I don't count those because the the ability for anyone to even get to those resumes these days is so hard, right? Um

I much prefer you focus on folks you

went to school with. Um, a lot of my students would one person would get into a firm and then two or three of them would end up working at that firm or one person would get a job at the DA's office and then four of them would fall into the like that tended to be what I saw how my students got their foot in the door at places. Um, do you not have

access to a career services department

at your law school?

>> Um, I do, but it's very limited,

especially in my case. like they don't have a lot of postings and you know when

you do talk to them they just refer you to the postings and in my case I got a

scholarship in a law school in a different state >> and now I'm trying to get my license in Texas. >> Yeah. >> Do you think that's hurting you? >> Yeah. On top of not having pass the bar yet? >> Yep.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously not passing the bar, but yeah, the lack of

opportunities through the school is a little rough. >> Yeah. So, I I here's what I would focus on. I would put every single aim, every

gun I have at passing the bar exam, period. >> I would join both the the local community bar association and the state bar association, and I would look at every government opening right now

>> in a >> Yeah. >> in a 1-hour radius. And you might not want to do government law. You may not want to do assistant DA work.

You may not want to do that kind of work, but that may be the only work available to you. And by the way, those are opportunities for you to get a ton of different cases and a ton of different clients and rub shoulders with a ton of different attorneys and judges that can help you begin to network for your next move. But that's that would be where I'd start right there. >> I'd quit applying and start going, "All right, I need to set up 15 conversations this week with people that are in this space." Maybe it's the alumni.

Maybe you know a judge's clerk. Whatever it is, just go, "Hey, I'm going to hang. I'm going to see how I can add value to their life. Get to know them." It's not a desperate plea for a job.

You're just making the connections and they might know a guy who knows a guy and that's how you get it. Or that temp job or contract work turned into full-time work or they knew somebody who was looking for somebody. That's how people get jobs in the real world these days versus the spray and prey. I click some buttons and hopefully it's an addiction.

>> Nobody's calling me. Yeah. Yeah.

Check them out, too. Thanks for the call, brother.

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## 58. Financial Irresponsibility Always Has a Cost | April 8, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, I'm Dave Ramsey. This is the Ramsey Show. Jade Wall, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

All right, Taylor is in Dallas. What's going on, Taylor?

>> Hi, Dave. So, I'm calling in. Me and my husband got married about seven months ago and over the course of this tax season and gathering all of our documents, unbeknownst to me, he has not paid taxes for 23 or 24 and now 25.

>> And so, yeah, kind of a big deal going into a marriage wanting to know something like that. I'm very type A and on top of that sort of thing, I'm a W2 employee and so it's pretty simple, straightforward every year. He is a 1099 graphic designer and so now this year

we're in years past I would get a return. we are going to owe a pretty big deal on top of owing for 23 and 24. And so I just kind of want some advice on what to do. I will say first and foremost, same day I found out, I contacted a CPA and we're in the process of, you know, we finalized 2025 and we're working on 23 and 24, but definitely unexpected, you know, going into a marriage and now having what could potentially be up to a 35 or $40,000 debt.

>> Wow.

>> Okay. >> So, what does Mr. Creative say about his irresponsibility and lying to you?

Well, he is it has been a rough couple weeks. He obviously is very apologetic and in his words, it wasn't intentional.

It was kind of in the back of his mind and he knew it was not going to be good.

But in his mind, he didn't realize it had been that long since he had paid taxes.

That that doesn't make me feel better.

>> Makes me feel worse.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like what else is rumbling around in your little mind that you haven't told me about and you forgot and didn't think it was important? Yeah, that was definitely my first question as well. The first couple days when I pulled or asked him to pull up the IRS website so I could gather our documents and I realized that it had been that long.

Yeah, that was not a good feeling.

>> How long were you uh together before you got married? >> We've known each other for uh seven years. We've known each other since college. >> Okay. >> How long were you dating?

>> On and off for a while, but um about a year before we finally got engaged and got married. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, well, you did the right thing by getting on the ball and getting a CPA and and getting a hold of this. Um, it does

point to a deeper issue. Um, because

this all came about as a result of your diligence and and you being on top of things and this was all solved as a result of your diligence and you're being on top of things. Yes.

>> For sure. So that's where my issue is and that's probably where my conversation would start is uh this is a

behavior that won't be able to continue.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Have you started that conversation?

>> Not if you want to live.

>> Well, here's the thing. For being a young married couple, I've been intentional about us saving. And so we have a decent amount in the bank right now that once we know >> that's besides the point. The the money here is not the problem.

I'm not concerned about that. you'll put money aside if you're concerned how we can talk about that. The problem here is my mom used to tell me, she'd say, "The patterns that you allow from the beginning will be the patterns that persist throughout the marriage." That's what she told me. She's right.

If you allow things to persist, so for you, this is something that you guys have got to grab hold of immediately. And if I were in your shoes, I'd really be kind of searching searching my memory and searching my heart. Is there anything else that sounds like this that's been going on to to where I'm seeing a pattern? Because if I'm seeing a pattern, then I'm really concerned.

If this is not a pattern, this is just a concealed incident. That's very different.

But nonetheless, this is a conversation.

Have you had that conversation with him about the behavior? Not the money, the behavior.

>> Oh, for sure. That was the first thing because to me it's it's the dishonesty of not knowing that because that would have been vital information you know going into things and so we've definitely >> definitely had that conversation and >> you know I did say it's not something I can just get over in a day like this takes time because it is it is kind of a big deal especially with the dollar amount it is you know I I file every year I'm on top of this and so to find out that not only are you not W2 which I knew but to know that nothing's really been set aside with that in mind that oh yeah I'm going to owe this amount >> here's where I want to get to if I'm you and him for that matter where we need to arrive at.

Okay, you've already done the tactical things.

All that's done. I don't want this to settle into you're his mommy and you spend the next rest of your life bailing this guy out. Uh every time he is irresponsible or forgets something and throws it in the bucket of, "Oh, I'm a creative. I don't do details." No, I'm going to kill you.

It's not going to happen. So, I mean, really, I'm going to lose it right here.

you're a creative, you also have to be an adult.

>> And adults file taxes. Adults take care

of business, even if it's not their natural strength. So, as long as we both

are together on this and we're two adults making decisions about all the adult things, then together from this

point forward and there's no more deception or no more I forgot and mommy take care of me. We're not going to we're not going to run that script out in this marriage. We're going to be two grown people >> handling our responsibilities within our strengths. And you've got natural strengths toward detail and task orientation that he doesn't have. And that's fine. I have that. My wife is more uh more of the free spirit that we call them the nerd and the free spirit.

You're the nerd. He's the free spirit. I'm the nerd. Sharon's the free spirit.

So on. Right? So you can accept those things, but that does not give you a pass on emotionally carrying the weight

of the household and the making of adult

decisions together with me. You don't get a pass on that. >> Yeah. And so as long as we can make as long as you feel assured maybe meeting with a marriage counselor a couple of times and you guys get some language to this that you can >> that that some tools in your belt so that he really grasps >> uh what this does to your psyche >> and that that that we're not going to have a pattern going forward to your point Jade then I I'm good with it.

I I think you've you've done everything perfectly.

We're not going to get here again. And the way we avoid that is the two of us standing side by side, both of our shoulders bearing the weight of being adults and then we make the decisions together. Then having said that, you know, he's going to have more of a natural tendency towards fun and creativity. You're going to have more of a natural tendency towards detail and task orientation. And that's good. We'll utilize those strengths in executing the plan that we develop together.

>> Yeah, it's really important. I think a lot of times in the beginning of marriage, you kind of tiptoe around things. Everybody's still trying to be on their best behavior. You don't want to rock the boat. You don't want to, you know, be too strong on certain things, but actually now is the time to really lean into those issues and try to write get them right side up early on.

>> Yeah. And she's so on it that this this is like >> listen, she's going to be the best thing that ever happened to him. Yeah, he he got he got lit up and he deserved to be

>> he deserved to be lit up.

>> Oh my gosh. Jordan is in Lancing, Michigan. Hey, Jordan. What's up? Oh, nope. You're not up. You're going to be up after this commercial break. I'm going to learn to do this podcast radio thing one of these days.

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Jordan is in Lancing, Michigan. Hey, Jordan. How are you?

>> I'm doing better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? >> Just the same. How can I help?

>> Well, I'm 20 years old. I've got a wife

and a baby on the way. Uh, no debt,

making a decent amount of money, saving up money for a house. >> What's What's decent money?

>> I make about 70 grand.

>> And does she work outside the home?

>> She is getting her nursing degree this

spring. She'll be passing. Um,

so she works, she babysits a kid right now, but >> So she's going to make more than you. Okay. >> Probably. >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, a nurse ought to make more than 70. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Good for y'all. >> Yeah. Um I'm wondering if it's

financially responsible to want to buy a bike before I buy a house. And when I say bike, I mean motorcycle.

>> Um I I would go with yes because

>> yes, it's irresponsible. >> What? And my reason for just thinking that outright is one is strictly for you and the other is for the wife and the baby and the family and everybody else to live in >> and for the future. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I I >> reason I'm asking you is I got a big big uh tax return and I was like, man, this is nice. I've got I've got a nice big chunk of money that I didn't expect coming.

>> Yeah. And um the interesting thing is if the man that has that has responsibilities wins the fight, >> the boy that lives inside of you gets to buy his toys.

>> Well, that's >> meaning that you do things in the right order, you'll get to bike someday. And

um if it's not out of order, and it's out of order if you do it now. Yeah. But I can easily see 20 years old. I mean, that's still, >> you know, but yeah, you got married and had a kid. Hello. And now, you know, so it it just all of a sudden changed, right? So, >> uh, and all your buddies, you know, they may not have the same >> grown-up responsibilities that you've signed up for recently.

>> So, um, yeah, >> you know, that kind of thing. So, all that's the environment you're in, but yeah, the the >> the truth is when you're 30, which one will you be glad you did first, the house or the bike? You'd be glad you did the house first. >> Your 30-year-old version of you won't look back at the 20-year-old version and go, "Come on, dude." you know, you know, you don't you don't want the 30-y old version talking to you, the 20-y old version of you that way.

>> Nope. >> And that So, yeah, go get your house, get out of debt, build an emergency fund, and buy some toys and buy some buy her a nice couch or whatever it is she wants. And you guys, you know, but you do that in the right order. You know, we're also not going to spend uh the equivalent amount on the baby's nursery

uh dressing up everything in the rental house while we're trying to save up for a home. And and so, right, >> yeah, if you just go, >> what would the future version of me want to do? That that's the mature side of every one of us, then I get to do that.

And by the way, I'm a guy that's got a pretty good collection of toys today.

But I got them after they didn't matter

financially and my family was more than taken care of and we were set. And so now when I buy a toy, it's irrelevant to the financial situation. And that's the yeah >> the the manly the grown-up way to do it.

But it's you know but you're I'm 65. I

still have that guy lives inside of me that fights with the other guy inside of me. And everybody does. Right.

>> That's right. >> So it's cool you asked the question though. That tells me you probably have a clue. >> Uh pro >> like you already knew the answer. >> I was going to say his conscience was uh telling him. >> He wants somebody else to tell him what he already knew. >> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Well, if we didn't tell him, his wife was going to tell him.

>> We do a lot of that on this show.

>> I know. >> Tell people what they already know.

>> And we make good money telling them what they already know. It's kind of ridiculous if you think about it, man. >> It's not bad. >> All right.

Bridger is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi,

Bridger. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Well, I'm newly married, about eight months married, and I and my wife

previously got married, made some not best financial decisions, but we recently got access to $27,000 through a

trust fund, and just wondering your guys' expertise on the best way to

utilize that and turn our life around.

>> Cool. That's a great question.

>> Yeah. Tell us tell us about your current finances. You said you made some mistakes. What do those look like?

So, we have two car payments.

We got one that is $16,000.

>> Mhm. >> And then her car is $20,000.

>> Mhm. >> Both of those total up to $1,000 a month. They're both each $500.

>> Wow. Yeah. >> What's your household income?

>> We both make $55,000.

>> So, 110 or sorry, both to together. Your total household income is 55, >> correct? >> What are your careers?

>> Um, she is a receptionist and I work for

my dad. >> How old are you guys?

>> I'm 20. She or I'm 21, she's 20.

>> Okay. So, 16 on a car, 20 on a car, and what else? In debt.

>> We did have 8,500 on credit cards. Um,

but about a week after we got that trust fund, we paid all of those off.

>> Did you Did you cut them up?

>> Uh, not yet. No.

>> You got to cut them up >> by the time when you get off the phone, get them out and cut them up. >> Uhhuh. Otherwise, you're going to run them back up again. >> Yeah. >> Now, after you paid that out, after you pay that off, now there's 27,000 left.

Or is that less >> the credit card? >> Well, that's what it started out as. Now, we currently have 17.

>> Got it. Okay. Um, we had to spend $500 on a car repair and then we already

spent $1,000 on our discretionary spending. >> Got it. Is there any other debt laying around besides the cars?

>> That's a cool way of saying I just blew $1,000 discretionary spending. What are you in Congress?

>> No, definitely not.

>> Is there any other debt besides the two cars?

>> That's about it. Just the two car payments. >> Okay. Okay. So, we >> And you're 20. You guys are 20 years old, >> correct? 20 and 21. >> Okay. >> Uh, okay. So, there's there's two things at work here. First off, you guys' income, uh, we got to get it up.

Somebody's not working full-time hours.

Is that you or your wife?

>> So, we're both actually working about 40 hours a week. I try and work 50.

>> Yeah. Your job sucks. >> Her receptionist job is not not the best. She does not definitely could make more. Yeah, he's an aesthetician on the

side. >> So, we're trying to get that up. But, I mean, that doesn't really bring really anything. >> Brer, here's the thing. Here, here's some data points for you from 35 years of doing this. All right.

>> I have never met someone that became a

millionaire when they owned cars

with payments.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I believe it. You're getting killed by your cars. You signed up for

it, but you're getting killed >> by your cars. So, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I don't know if I can talk you into it, but if I can, when

you're 30, you have a shot at being a millionaire. If I can talk you into doing this, >> okay, >> sell both cars, have no payments, use the money to pay cash for a couple of $7,000 cars.

Okay. >> And buy a boring car, not a cool car. A

boring car is one that doesn't have a lot of miles, that grandmother drove to

church on Sundays only, and that your

friends think you're a goober cuz you bought it.

That's a That's a good car. That's a good $7,000 car.

>> Okay.

If you buy a cool $7,000 car, it means somebody ragged out the Camaro.

That's the only way it's worth seven.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, you want a Camry, an Accord, stuff

like that. I'm serious. A grandma car, a boring butt car. Pay cash for them. Get

rid of these two car payments and then do what Jade was talking about and let's work on your careers and and let's double your income in the next three years and never have a car payment again. Because if you do, when you take out a car payment, what you are doing is you're looking in the mirror and saying, "Lord, I desperately want to be middle class the rest of my life." That's what you're saying when you take out a car payment. Because that's what the data tells us. >> Well, he's sacrificing so much money.

>> Oh, yes. Oh, if if you took that car payment from today until age 61, so 40

years, that's $8 million, my man.

>> Yeah. Oh, >> that's stupid money.

>> Hope you like the cars.

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A lot of the old fogies my age make fun of generation Z and made fun of millennials, too. There's a percentage of every generation that's completely useless.

And that includes my generation. There's my generation, the ones that were useless, we called them hippies, okay? And they're still smoking pot at 70 years old. And so they still get on

weed. And but a percentage of every

generation is useless. And a percentage of Gen Z is useless. their participation

trophy collecting, living in their mother's basement, making fun of capitalism with a $1,200 Apple phone that their mother

bought them. They're useless. But we

also get the most of the generation Z is

pretty incredible. I think it's my favorite generation.

>> I've I've done this for, >> you know, since the boomers were the target market. When I started this, I was in my 30s. >> Yeah. And so the target market was my

generation and that's who was having little kids and having asking us the same questions we get asked.

>> And um I so I've gone through X and Z

and millennials and everybody and this Z's I mean think about we had two different 20 year old callers already this hour. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Both of them married. Both of them making big boy big girl decisions.

That's right. >> Both of them making big girl big boy mistakes. Okay, they're going to make mistakes, >> but owning them, coachable,

both of them, if they do, and both of them that >> you did not get the push back. Sometimes we get a push back and we all know, all you listening, and we know they're not going to do it. >> They're not going to do it. >> They're not going to do it.

They're not going to do it. Those two though, I think there's a chance both of them are going to do it. And so those two 20-year-olds are probably 30-year-old millionaires because of that one phone call if they follow through. >> Absolutely.

>> And that's why we come down here. That's why we turn these microphones on. It's for you. >> Absolutely.

Those of you that want to listen, those of you that want to do better, those of you that want to win, and take the data of the decades of experience that the Ramsey Solutions has, uh, that started with me, but now it's with everybody else in the building.

being on this microphone taking these same phone calls with different little twists and turns to them, but they're still there. And and so I'm really excited

about what 15 years from now all the Gen

Z's look like cuz they're a very serious

soberminded the one the good ones and I think there's more good ones than normal >> always. Yeah. >> And uh but and they're not who they've been made out to be in the media. That's a bunch of crap. >> So I'm your biggest supporter if you're 22.

If you're using your brain, okay, if you want to plug your brain in, I'm I'm we're Ramsay, we're fans of you. We're

not going to put you down. Now, if you start the other crap, I'll I'll knock you in the head just like I will any generation, right? You start telling me how capitalism it's the problem. Capitalism is not the problem. You're the problem. So, get up off your butt,

leave the cave, kill something, drag it home. That's, you know, get a job. There there's nothing new about that. That's the same in every generation. So, um, you know, and Donald Trump's not your enemy and Joe Biden is either. They're not neither one of them going to fix your life. Look at them.

>> Come on. You got to do this. So, all that stuff and and but I just when we take these calls, I see patterns in these calls coming in like today and it just gets me. I just want to share with you guys observe what we're observing.

It's exciting what this nation could

look like, what this economy could look like based on people like those callers contributing to the economy and becoming a positive thing for their families.

Generational. Think about where their grandkids will be. That guy, if he takes his car payments alone, he'll have $8 million at 65.

>> Yes. >> Now, you put it into the calculator while we were here. >> Plugged it in. >> What if he does that? Talk about I mean

and and then what if the kids that he raises takes that 8 million and turns it into 80 million. >> Yes. >> I mean this is changing your family tree. This is what it looks like. And this is the power of God's ways of handling money of grandma's ways of handling money. We call it common sense but it's so rare. It's like having a superpower. And so we just keep bringing it back to you all the time. And we just got to tell y'all, we're fans of you if

you're 22 or 25. And and and that's assuming you're one of the good ones, okay? If you're not, then you're not going to like it when you call here cuz we're going to box your ears like we would anybody else because we love you and we want you to win and we're going to get you on track. That's what we do.

Sarah is in Albany, New York. Hi Sarah.

What's up in your world?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? I am calling because my husband and I um about two

years ago by his grandmother's house when she passed >> and we were all fired up about it. It was my husband and I working on it, you know, with our own two hands together fixing it. Problem is, she'd lived in that house for about 50 years and not a lot of work was done to maintain it >> and it is way more than we anticipated.

Um, >> and then fast forward to 2025,

you know, we had a major structure fire.

We're fighting with the insurance company in a different property. Um, we lost my daughter. We had a major water break in the grandmother's house.

>> Oh, you just drove. You lost your daughter. Whoa. You drove by the what?

>> A baby. >> That sucked. >> One of your child children. >> No, she it was one my oldest daughter.

She's grown. >> Oh. How old was she? 25. I'm sorry. Oh my gosh.

Oh, >> so needless to say, >> all of the excitement and drive and you

know what, baby, you and I can do this.

We can fix this house together. It can be for our kids use. It's >> there's no fun left. >> All that drive is gone.

>> Yeah. >> So, what what what is the condition of the property today?

>> So, when we purchased it, it was technically legally livable, but you

know, all the windows needed to be changed out. the electrical knob and tubing. The interior was from the 50s.

Um, >> and what you still >> What is the condition of the property today?

>> So, today we've replaced all the windows. The electrical is still there.

Um, I had replaced a whole bunch of floors and done a whole bunch of painting in there. And then the water break, I mean, I'm talking a swimming pool now because nobody's living in it right now. So, it wasn't caught right away. And that resulted in most of the

interior work that we've done or actually I did most of that. He did.

>> What did you pay for the property?

>> We paid 73 75. >> How much acreage is with >> a half an acre. It has two parking spaces. It technically has a garage, but it's sagging off and it's like >> if it went on the market as is, what do you think it could go for? What do you think you could list it for? If it went on the market as is, we would probably get like 70 for it and it wouldn't qualify for traditional financing because >> Yeah. But that's okay. If you could get 70 for it, you got 70 in it.

>> Is it paid for? >> No. >> Well, you've put lots more in it. >> No, it's >> Oh, yeah. No, between the what we paid

for it, the closing costs, and the money that we've put into it, we're in it for a little over a hundred right now.

>> Yeah. But the money, do you have any debt? What what debt do you have around it?

>> So, there's the loan that we took for at

the end it ended up being like 82 I think for the purchase and the closing cost and then there was or two left.

>> Yeah. And then on top of that we put

about 7,000 on a Home Depot guard which

is all into that house and then we put

other cash that we had into it as well.

>> You're not talking about cash. I was talking about debt. Okay. So in debt you have 82 and 7.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And where are you living? >> Yeah. So we don't live there. We have

our primary home which we still have a mortgage on as well. >> What is it worth?

>> This house? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Maybe two >> 100.

>> Yeah. 200,000. Yeah. >> And what do you owe on it? >> I mean it could be more if they fix it a little bit. >> What do you owe on it? >> We have about 75 left on it, I want to

say. Okay. All right.

Well, I mean, you have two options.

One is um dig deep and find some energy

and get this thing fixed up and at least get your money out of it and sell it. I would not keep it.

>> It needs to go away. >> No, we're not we're not keeping it.

>> I would fix it up enough that I could get my 90,000 bucks out of it and lose

some of the cash I put into it and all the effort I put into it. But you're going to have to dig deep to find the energy to fix it up that much. Um,

the other option is take a complete whipon and probably sell both houses so

that you've got the cash to take the whipping. But I really wouldn't do that.

I'd dig deep and finish get it at least up to 90 and get where you can at least get the credit card paid off and the mortgage paid off and move on. And whatever you cash you put in it, you just lost. And we've all done stupid things and lost money. Welcome to the club.

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Madison is in Pittsburgh.

Let me try again. Hey, Madison. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I was wondering if it would be

smart for me to move 3 hours away from

where I live now to move in with my boyfriend so that I can build up a

clientele where he's at and build my own

salon.

>> Oh, no. What's one thing got to do with

the other?

What's moving away got to do with building the salon?

>> So, the area that I'm in right now,

there's not as high of a demand because there are so many salons over here >> and I also don't have the greatest relationship with my family.

>> Okay. >> So, >> I would rather be around people that

want to be around me. >> Sure. such as his family and him. And he

has also um said that he would help me build what

I am wanting to build if it's over

there. >> Okay. So So what what kind of a salon are we talking about? Hair?

>> No. Um nails. I do nails.

>> Okay. >> I love the idea of you going someplace where you can have the business that you want to have. I love the idea of you exiting what might be a kind of a toxic relational environment with your family. I think that's all great. And and if you've identified the right place to do that, I think that's fabulous. What I don't like is you tying up your

business, your prosperity with someone that you're not married to. Because what happens if this guy turns out to not be

the guy that you marry? Well, now you're tied to him economically, which means if this starts going south, but your business is doing well, you might be less likely to end that relationship because you're economically tied up in it. >> Or Yeah. Or worse than that, your nail salon takes off really, really slow and

so you become financially dependent on a guy you're not married to and he's now controlling the whole thing. >> Yeah. Even worse, >> really not a good thing for you, my little sister. >> I want you to be a standalone woman with square shoulders and a strong backbone.

So, we were planning in about a year at a year and a half we are going to get married. >> Great. >> How long have you been dating?

>> Um, a little bit over a year and a half.

>> Okay. And how how old are you two?

>> Um, I'm 19 and he's 20.

>> Okay. And you you your nail salon clientele

is going to be um

working in a salon with someone else and

and they have the rent and they bring you in and you work for them, but you build up a client base or you're wanting to start a salon at 19 years old in a strange location where you know no one from scratch and build a whole business.

Which one are you saying? So, I have a

job lined up there for whenever I am out of school and I am licensed, which will be around two months from now.

>> And I was going to work there for 2 to 3 years and then hopefully save up enough money to open up my salon.

>> On my own. >> Good. Very good. I like that a lot.

>> How can we help you solve the problem to where you can go there, do what you're saying, but do it without living with your boyfriend?

So, where I'm stuck at is

I'm not I'm not 100% confident in myself

that I'll be able to run and manage my own salon. >> No, you're not. You're you got a job.

>> Yeah. >> So, go take the job. What does it pay?

>> Um, so it's really just going to depend on how many clients I get. Um, I'm pretty sure it's going to be based off of I'm going to pay rent to rent a chair there and then probably pay a little bit in commission. >> So, there's no base pay at all?

>> Um, no. >> Do you have any money saved? Do you have any money to your name?

>> Um, I do. I work right now. I'm a home healthcare aid for my mom. I make 1150 an hour and I have about a,000 saved.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, how are you not going to starve to death >> when you go take this job on straight commission with no base pay?

>> So, I was planning on moving over there

and before I get licensed, I'm going to It really just varies on when I'm going to get licensed. Um, I was going to start at a different job and then whenever um I have enough saved up to be

a enough saved up besides my emergency

fund to >> be able to >> I think I know why your parents are a problem for you cuz they're telling you that this is dumb and you don't want to hear that.

>> It's not exactly that. I just don't I've never really had a good relationship with my dad. Um my mom fully supports me. I just think you need to get yourself in a better spot before you do this. >> This is a nightmare looking for a place to happen. >> Okay. Okay. So, you you don't have any money and you don't have a job lined up to eat. And so, what a 100% this screams

is you're going to be dependent on this guy that you're not married to from the first moment you make this decision. And you don't do that unless you're married.

It's not good for you. You're It's a dangerous, vulnerable situation for you.

He kicks you out. You know what? You are homeless.

>> Yeah. >> Uh-uh.

No. I'm not going to let anybody I love do that.

>> Okay. >> And we love you and we're going to talk you out of it. >> And by the way, even if he was the best guy ever, why would you want to put yourself in that position where you're completely dependent on him? That's that's not a great >> unless you're married.

If you're married, sure, fine. If you're married and he has an income and he wants to support the family while you get your first and second job going here and all that kind of stuff, that's fine.

This is dangerous for you.

>> Yeah. And there's no reason for you to put yourself in that position.

>> I just wouldn't do it. I don't if you you know you need a you need a different set of income a different set of savings to protect you to allow you to be a standing as a standalone grown woman operating in the operating her own home

and then be dating this guy. Yeah.

>> Or be married to him. And I don't think y'all are wanting to get married right now because you don't think you're ready. And I pretty much agree with that. >> If I were her, I'd probably keep doing what I'm doing and try to get a job at a local salon. save up as much money as I think, you know, I need to be able to make that leap and get my own apartment.

And >> if you need to have no contact with your family, but you live in the area where they live, that's fine. >> Yeah, sure. >> It's not a big deal.

>> Just set up a boundary. Just I'm I'm not going to interact with you people. You're morons. I mean, you just just That's fine. You can do that. But I I want you to have a you know some safety for you because when you have to bet

everything on someone else that is not legally bound to you that is a very

dangerous scenario for you. And we get the call when this 19-year-old beautiful

Madison is 25 and she's living in her

car >> and she calls us >> because he kicked her out. Oh, and there's a baby now.

But there's no, you know, we can't find baby daddy because he's not actually the husband. And this this is this is a guaranteed way to end up spending the first the next decade of your life in poverty. Don't do it. Please, honey.

Please, please, please don't do this to yourself. Uh so

uh okay I don't

the uh you have to be able to put when you're making big decisions you have to be able to put all of the key elements of the decision on a piece of paper and look at them and they all have to line up and say this lifechanging major decision I'm

making you know all of these things say

it's a good idea. idea. And when we list them down for you, Madison, all of them say it's not a good idea.

>> Well, you have to run it. You have to run it through not just best case scenario, but through worst case scenario. You have to look at the worst case scenario. >> Absolutely. Well, I mean, best case scenario is you don't have any income.

>> Yeah. >> And you're waiting on clients to walk in the door and you're paying chair rent

and you're living with him and you don't

have any income. So from day one, you are 100% dependent on this guy to eat and to have shelter. That That's your best case. >> Yeah. You're just worth way more than that.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality and number one bestselling author is my co-host. Alex is in Portland, Oregon.

Hey, Alex. How are you?

>> Hey, doing good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, I I want to know if I can just invest 50,000 into my retirement account and uh then just work on on retirement minimally for the next 30 years until I retire.

>> Well, the regulations don't allow you to

put it into a 401k or a Roth IRA at that

sum, that lump sum. So, no, you can't do

that. But could you invest it? Can you invest it and say in your own mind that

particular mutual fund is my retirement

account? You could do that, but you can't just randomly add 50,000 to a Roth or a 401k.

>> Yeah, that's that's kind of my goal. As of right now, I uh I have about 20,000

invested into various 401ks and Roth IAS. Um I'm about to max out my Roth IRA

for this year. Mhm. >> I'm on baby step number four right now.

Um but I don't have kids. And um

>> if you're on baby step four, then no, I would not do that. >> What's the purpose of you wanting to do it that way? Is that in your mind?

>> You have a mortgage, right?

>> No, actually my mom is uh she's going to help me out with a tiny home and uh I've always kind of lived under my means. My my real goal is to just kind of travel the world um and just to really kind of enjoy the next, you know, 20 years because uh I'm probably going to end up taking care of my mom when she gets into her elder years cuz she's uh she's single. So, um she's going to need need help. So, as of right now, uh like I

said, I have about 20,000 invested and my job is going going to allow me to uh to get to that to about 50,000 that I can invest, you know, this year pretty easily. And I guess what my question is

is can I just invest that all into a mutual fund through a brokerage account and then >> and then just kind of enjoy the next 20 years of my life. >> You could, but it's not enough.

>> Okay. What would >> 50,000 will create $5,000 a year income.

>> Okay. >> It's a great place to park the money while you travel, but it's not a it's not a solution to say and after that I'm never investing again.

I I don't mean never investing again.

It's just uh like right now with my job, I make I work a full commission job, but I am projected to make probably about 180,000 this year.

>> Um I'm totally >> I'm 36. >> Okay. And you're single, obviously.

>> I'm single. Yeah, I completely debtree.

I just paid off my car and I realized I never want to be in debt. >> I work in home improvement.

>> Okay. All right.

Um,

okay. Uh, you're you're mathematically not ready to do what your dream is yet.

>> Okay. >> You're going to have to work a few more years to do that. Um, and so I mean, you're making $180,000 a year. If you

need uh $30,000, if you need $50,000 a

year to travel, then you need a half a

million. >> Oh, no. No. That's not what I meant. I I'm thinking of just in uh bringing my retirement up to $50,000. I I put the

numbers into your website and I was looking over >> and and then quit.

>> Huh? >> And then quit and then go travel the world. >> No, I mean I I would work periodically.

I just want to, you know, take a month off here, a month off there, come back and work, and then, you know, just kind of have the majority of my money go towards traveling and then anything that I don't spend go towards retirement, >> right? the majority of the money that you're earning, not that lump sum. That lump sum is just going to go away forever. >> Corre correct. That's just going to go into my into my brokerage account and max out my 401ks every year.

>> Okay. It's never a bad thing to invest.

And so investing is a good idea. It's never a bad thing to have fun. So having fun is a good idea. It's never a bad thing to be generous. As a matter of fact, people that are wealthy and healthy do all three. And so, yeah, I

think now that I'm understanding your plan a little bit better, I thought you said you were I misunderstood. I thought you were saying, "I want to put $50,000 away and never never work again and go travel the world." And I'm like, "Yeah, dude. You're going to you're you're going to be skinny, you know? I mean, >> the 180 that you make now, what do you think it'll go down to when you're kind of doing this plan and and working periodically?

And what do you anticipate that being?" >> It's performance-based. I mean, I uh I was pretty thin last year and it it went down to 80. Um just because business was slow, you know, I guess the market I was in was a lot slower than what I'm in now.

>> What I'm getting at is if it's just you, you're still earning a fine income. I mean, $80,000 while traveling. Is there a way where you can still do some investing and that you're not putting it completely on hold? >> Yeah.

kind of wondering what a good number to shoot for would be after I hit that after I invest that the rest of the 50k.

>> I think it's whatever number allows you to continue to do what you're planning to do, but I don't necessarily know that you need to live on 80,000 while you're traveling. Maybe it's >> if you make 80,000 and you put 15% of that away and you have an emergency fund and you spend the rest of it on travel and living, uh you're going to be okay.

>> You just kind of follow the steps.

I've always been minimalist. So, I mean, I I've, >> you know, I've spent as as little as like $1,000 a month before.

>> That's what I'm saying. I think you can do both. I don't think you have to say, "I'm not going to invest anymore." I think that you can continue to do that.

>> So, I want you to I want you to work enough that you make at least 80 >> and I want you to put 15% away and I want you to take as much time off as that allows you to take off and travel and put the 50k with a smart vester pro.

Go sit down with one. Go to ramseysolutions.com, click on smartvester. You sit down with a professional investment company. They'll help you, teach you, show you, and understand your plan and what you're trying to do. And uh now that I understand a little bit more, but if you could do that right there, >> yeah, >> could put 15% away, travel, live minimalist, >> make it make a minimum, work enough, you make 80, >> then you're making more than most people. And and and you can go travel.

Have at it. Have at it. Oh, and by the

way, as young as you are, your mom's young, maybe she ought to actually have a freaking plan so she has some money.

>> A good point. >> So that you she's not a burden in her old age. There's an idea,

man. So, I had a really crass friend

that was in his 80s and he was a multi-millionaire and he was kind of a jerk, >> honestly, but he was a friend >> and um but he used to say this all the time and I don't like it, but it it there's enough truth to it that it needs to be said. >> He said, "You know what an old man is that's broke?" I said, "No,

in the way." Oh, >> he said, "You know what an old man is that's rich?" I said, "No." He said, "Grandpa." >> Oh, well, >> I don't like that. >> Listen, I tell you what wrong.

>> You know, one of my goals is to not be in the way. >> Be grandpa. >> I don't want to be in the way, >> man.

>> Listen, he's telling the truth. >> Well, he's grouchy. I mean, >> grouchy kind of like Oscar in the trash can on Sesame Street. This guy's got that down. But but uh Yeah. Yeah. But

still, it's like I don't like that. Not everybody. No, people aren't that. Yeah, they are. >> Yeah. I mean, you don't want to be the burden. You don't want to be >> I don't want to work my whole life and then be a problem. >> Yes. You want to be able to be fun.

>> I end up working in McDonald's at retirement. It needs to be the one I own in St. Thomas. You know, come on. Hello.

I don't need to be, you know,

I'm sorry. I'm not mad at you people, but there's no chance I want to be a Walmart greeter >> as my retirement golden years. Okay? No

chance. I I don't mind saying hi to you in Walmart, but I don't want to be paid to do it. Hello. Okay. Bye.

>> So, come on.

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Ann is in New York City. Hi An. How are you? >> Hi, I'm great. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I I love it. So, I had a question about life insurance and estate planning. My husband and I are in our mid30s and we have a 2-year-old baby. I knew that term life insurance was something that we had to get. Um but I recently got into a car accident. I'm okay. My car is totaled and that really brought this um task of,

you know, life insurance much more to the forefront. Good. So, I >> I'm sorry you went through the car accident, but I'm glad you're awake. Okay, good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, we've been working very diligently in baby steps, too, and we're about like um three or four months away, all depending on when we get our refund because we're just going to put everything to the final debt. So, with the term life insurance,

should I'm assuming we should be putting that as a line item now and probably adjusting. Okay. Right. That makes the most sense.

Yes. So then, um, my follow-up question is, when it comes into budgeting for like estate planning, I know we're going to have to hire a lawyer, draw up a will, and all of that stuff is going to cost more money. Um, >> you might not need to do all that just yet. You could take the wills quiz that we have, and you might be able to just do one online quickly with Mama Bear >> and not get any not do any lawyers or anything like that.

>> Um, I I think I'm at 10,000 now. Yeah,

you don't you don't need a lawyer. >> Do a state specific will. >> Yeah, you need you just need to go to So, let me help you. Both things. We can do both things for you. They're both trusted people that we've done business with for years and years and years and years. So, xanderins insurance.com.

Z-de for 30 years.

>> I've told people to go to Xander.

They're my insurance agent. Jeff Xander is a personal friend of mine, >> okay? and they shop among a gazillion companies to get you the best possible deal on a term policy.

>> Okay. >> And then go to mama bear go to mama bearle legalformms.com and like 70 bucks >> you can have a will okay >> done and it's perfect for you in New York. It it all will be state specific.

And so this this is software that will print out a will for you that's for New York. You have to feed into it what you want the will to say and then it'll print it out and then you sign it and it'll tell you what the proper notary or whatever you have to do in New York is.

I don't know that. But some states require notary witness. Some just require a witness. Some don't require anything. So you just got to know your specific state and they'll tell you every bit of that and it's like $50 to $70. You'll have the whole set of documents. You'll have a full estate plan. You'll have your life insurance in place and you really your budget won't skip a beat.

Okay, I love it. Um, I suppose a follow-up question as well. So, my husband and I, we have um combined earnings are about 150 a year, but we

have each of us have side businesses that have been doing well and we love it. So, I know that once we get past Baby Steps 3, then I know we're like we're on track to becoming um the Babysionaires.

So when it when our net worth continues to increase, I'm assuming that the life insurance policy and like the state specific will, that's something that we can upgrade. Yes. I suppose in a few years.

>> Yeah. If you if you start to have a multi-million dollar net worth, you need a lawyer >> to do your estate plan. Okay. It's worth paying an attorney at that point.

>> Um if if you um and you know, unless

there's just something super simple about your will and everything, it's okay. You could still do it. You could have a $10 million net worth and be just fine with a simple will for mom states.

>> But if you want to spend a little bit of money at that point, have an attorney look at it. That's perfectly fine.

Nothing wrong with that. And life insurance, you could just add some more policies if you want. Keep in mind, Ann, that what you want to buy is 15 to 20year level term insurance. And it and

it should be about 12 times your income on you, about 12 times his income on him. And that way if something happens to you in a car accident, god forbid,

>> he could take that amount of money, the 12 times your income, and invest it and it will produce your income >> without touching it. >> Okay? >> And so let's just say you made $100,000

and um so he so you took out a million two and he invested a million two. that

will create $100,000 of income without touching the million two forever perpetually. And so that's where we came up with those numbers. And here's the thing, you're in your 30s. If you're not overweight and you don't smoke, a million dollars then cost hard. It's the cost of a pizza to get life insurance.

And it's just ridiculous that people don't have it. So you need to go get your stinking do the things she's talking about. And I'm really glad she called and I'm uh I'm sorry she had that accident, but I'm really glad it woke everybody up. And we said, "Hey, we got to deal with all these things cuz stuff happens in life." >> Yeah, she's paying attention. And that's that's the best thing you can do is pay attention to what's going on. Be intentional about making those solutions. And don't wait.

>> Life insurance is not a baby step. And I think that's the thing to remember. I remember having that aha moment even back when Sam and I were paying off our debt because the truth is you do wrestle with it in your mind. You think, "Oh gosh, I I'm cutting in so many areas.

Too broke to die. I'm too Yeah. And and the last thing you you want to do is add something to the budget, >> right?" >> And you you really do have to because you just don't know what tomorrow holds.

>> Wow. This is true. Kade is in Dallas.

Hey, Kade. What's up?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Perfect. So, uh, we're in a pretty good situation, but my wife and I were having a discussion. I would call it a a disagreement, but differing on opinions.

And so, >> Sounds like a disagreement. >> Uh, we right.

I appreciate it. And so, uh, we have,

um, about five rental properties. Not about five rental, we have five rental properties and our main property as well as a good amount. I say a good amount, right? That's subjective, but about 75K in cash in our bank and about 150,000 in

stocks. >> And so we were we're all about paying

off debt, but right now we're in a pretty good position. Two houses paid off, three houses with mortgages, and then one house with a pretty big mortgage, which is our primary residence. >> And your household income is what?

>> Uh I make about 150. Um, wife makes

about 75, so 225.

>> Got it. Very good. Okay. And what's the balance on your home mortgage?

>> Uh, 350. >> Okay. Cool. And how old are you guys?

>> Uh, 40 and 35.

>> Cool. You done really well.

Congratulations. It's fun to have these discussions by because you got to this point. >> So, if you're asking what I would do, are you?

>> Well, I sell the stock and take the 75K.

That's two and a quarter. And I'd put that on that 350 by close of business today.

>> Okay. >> I'm assuming you have an emergency fund in addition to the 75, right?

>> Uh no. Uh the 75 is just cash in our P.

So we would But you know, let's just say we need 25 in there for the emergency fund. >> Okay. Throw Okay. Then put 200. That leaves 150. >> And then that brings up the question you were going to ask about whether we sell one of the rentals. Right.

>> Right.

>> And you have three then that have mortgages.

>> Correct. Those are 50, 100, and 150.

Again, these are just ballpark numbers.

>> Just small mortgages. Okay. Good. Good.

All right. And uh is there any of who wants to sell some of the houses to get the debt paid off?

>> That would be my wife. She bought into the let's go debtree saying, "Hey."

>> Yeah. Okay. So, here's the thing. The only question, the only thing we're arguing about is not when, not if we're going to be debtree, it's just when.

>> Yes. Basically, yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.

That that helps the argument. Okay. Because if if the argument is I'm going to stay in debt the rest of my life, we got a different discussion. But if it's like, okay, I got a small balances on these things.

I got this pile of money, so I can throw 200 at the house. Let's get the house knocked out, and then we'll whittle away on the mortgages on the rentals. and and you map that out and you say with a $225,000 income, it's going to take us four years to do all that.

Or if we sell two of them, we could do it real fast. That's the argument, right? So we're arguing about two years or four years or whatever these numbers are. We're really not arguing about the concepts.

And so is it do I don't want to give up these houses. I would rather fight with it for four years. She's saying, "I want to be done today. If we gave up two of them, we could be done today." And that's about the numbers roughly. Um, and that's the only argument is whether we what are we going to do with the next four years? And either either answer is

in the wise column, so we're not going to we're not going to call it for you.

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You can't get through. There's not that many lines. So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, we got a to a tool for you to help you. Head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our

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get bad information. Instead, you could just go to ramseyolutions.com

and ask Ramsay and you'll get a Ramsey

answer to your question. If you want to know what we think, it's an easy way to do it and it's completely free. Ian is in Atlanta. Hi Ian, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm doing good. Um, I appreciate all your help through the years. My wife and I, you've helped us out a lot getting our get our finances in order. So, appreciate all that.

>> Thank you.

>> Um, we found out before Christmas, my father-in-law was had fallen into some scams, thousands of dollars. He actually maxed out all his credit card and then he wound up mortgaging the house to pay off the credit card debt. Um, we think he may even now have gone so far as to get a reverse reverse mortgage on the house. Tomorrow he has to go to small claims court to deal with one last creditor, uh, about $2,500. The only

income he has, legal legitimate income, is his social security. So, we're not sure where to help him, where to step in and help him. At this point, um, he hasn't let us not help him, but he hasn't given us a lot of room to help him. But it's, you know, tomorrow he has to go to court and we're just not sure what to do, what what he can expect there and then what to do after that cuz like I said, he's just one last dead and all he has is is a house and social security.

We don't want him to wind up homeless.

>> He is 80.

>> Okay. >> How's he been clearing the other the other debts? You said this is the last one.

>> Yeah, the rest of them when he mortgaged the house, he paid everything off, but he missed this one card. He actually wrote him a letter and explained his situation to him and they still moved forward with it. Like I said, he got the letter in the mail that he has to be in court tomorrow for this for this last 25. >> Who's the creditor? Do you know?

>> I I do not know. >> Okay. All right. >> What are you thinking about? Are you thinking about >> Well, I'm sorry. What state is he in?

>> Georgia. >> Okay. All right. Go ahead. >> I was going to say, what are you thinking about paying the 2500 form? Is that what's on your mind?

>> No, we're not. We We We're not giving him any more money. We we my wife is,

you know, that's her dad. She's she's helping out some. I'm not entirely sure, you know, what, you know, she's doing, but I know she's not doing a lot because because we know how bad it was.

>> Um, we actually we actually wind up I took his cell phone. I was paying for his cell phone. He was supposed to pay for it. We actually went over the house, took it from him. >> So, you know, to try not to to keep him keep it from happening again. But yeah, we're just trying to find out what he can expect tomorrow from the court. Can they get that? All he has is social security. What can they get? What can they do? Well, to start with, what will happen tomorrow is uneventful.

>> You ever been to traffic court for a ticket, >> right? Yeah. >> Like the first time you go to traffic court, you're like, "Oo, I'm going to court." And then you go in there and it's kind of funny. It's kind of not much to it. It's uneventful, anticlimactic.

>> You know what I'm saying? >> They tell you what you already know. >> Yeah. That that's exactly what's going to happen to him tomorrow. Okay. So, these attorneys have entire cases, boxes

and boxes and boxes of people that they're suing tomorrow. They roll them all in on two wheelers. No one comes to

oppose them and they get judgment on all

of them in about 10 minutes.

>> Okay? >> They don't go through them one by one by one by one. The only one they will pull out is if someone actually shows up. So,

if he actually shows up, they'll pull it out and they'll talk about it, but they will do nothing because here's the deal.

The guy legally owes $2,500

and he has not paid the bill, >> right? >> He will lose the lawsuit, >> right? >> I got scammed is not a defense, >> right? >> Okay. So, he loses tomorrow and they

take a judgment lean tomorrow. Now, then

on to your question. What can they or will they do with a judgment lean? 98%

of the time on $2,500, they'll do nothing with it because it's too much trouble. It's not enough to screw with.

>> Okay. Okay. >> But they take the judgment lean if they're in a state where they can garnishy. They can clean out bank accounts and they can and they can garnish you wages. They cannot touch social security in any state.

>> Okay? they could take a lean on his house, but were they to do that in the state of Georgia and they would have to

go through they have to spend a,000 to $2,000 to do a foreclosure to collect $2,000 and they end up owning a house which by the way has a mortgage on it, >> right? >> And they get to keep that mortgage. The bank does. So, the chances that a bank takes on $100,000 or $50,000 or whatever

mortgage to try to collect $2,500 on a

credit card is zero. Never seen it happen in 40 years.

>> Okay? >> Not going to do it. So, they take a lean on the house so that if the house ever sold, they get paid and they will do that. >> Okay? >> In most states, as soon as the judgment is final, it's an automatic lean on property that you own.

>> I don't know for sure in Georgia if it is. It is in Tennessee. Okay? Okay. So, it's an as soon as the judgment's final tomorrow and they and they record it at the courthouse, his his title is now clouded. If he tries to borrow money on the house or try to sell the house, they have to get paid because they now have a lean on the house.

>> But they won't execute on the lean and force the sale of the house.

>> It's not practical. >> Not practical. >> Right. And if as long as his social security uh comes to an account that is standalone and doesn't have any other money in it, they can't take the money out of that account because it's social security money, >> right? >> But if he has if he if he's got $10,000 laying somewhere, which he doesn't based on the story you told me, but if he had $10,000, he probably would have paid this bill, right? But um >> yeah, >> but but but yeah, so basically he is

largely what we call judgment proof. There's not a lot they can do with the judgment, >> right? >> Cuz he's too stinking poor.

>> Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. And we we're trying to help him, but it's just Yeah. It's it's I mean, you've probably gotten these calls before, you know, it's frustrating. You hear about other people falling into these scams and then you know what kind of scam was almost a year? Uh, well, Dave, he um he was going

to marry Jennifer Aniston.

>> Oh, okay.

>> And he was, you know, getting the buying the Apple gift cards and sending $100,200 here and there and just >> Not bad work if you're 80 gift cards and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Romance scam, huh? Wow.

>> Yeah. And it was one of the big ones, too. So, yeah. I mean, you know, we've heard other people fell into it. We just never I thought, "How do you fall into that?" And then then it hit our you hit my father-in-law. So, >> yeah. I'm so sorry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's It's heartbreaking. Um but it

sounds like the money is gone. It doesn't sound like it's recoverable >> from anything. And so my guess is that

tomorrow will probably end the drama on the 2500.

>> Okay. >> Until you all until until you all sell the house after he passes away.

>> Okay. Okay. Cuz he was talking about not even going. What would it do to go? He's right. He's right. >> Yeah. >> You're going to lose. >> You just walk in there and you're going to lose. There's no uh they can't they don't send you to driving school.

>> You know, it's not it's not that part of traffic court, but you're just you're going to lose because there's no defense. There's not a >> you know, there's no fraud or something like that committed. It's not identity theft. It's not he borrowed the money and he signed up for the debt. He didn't

pay it. He loses. It's very simple and

very cut and dried. And the and I promise you there'll be a thousand at least in the bo in the in these cardboard boxes sitting there and they'll all go bump with one drop of the hammer, right? One one smack of the gavl and it's over. And it's it's like a conveyor belt for lawsuits.

A a lawsuit factory and it's just it's

boring is what it is. But uh unless you're the one that's all freaked out because of it. Yeah. So anyway, I I

think he's okay. I think he's probably in good shape. I can't be 100% sure, but based on what you told me, I don't know of anything that any way they can get to him at this stage because everything's gone basically.

Rachel is in Baton Rouge. Hi, Rachel.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My question is, is it smart to do a balance transfer that is offering a 0%

APR for 20 months to take care of a portion of a personal loan that my husband and I have? >> A personal loan to who?

>> Uh, it's with a SoFi loan that we have.

>> Oh, gross.

>> What How much is SoFi screwing you for?

>> We have 15,000 left. And what's the interest rate?

>> 12.31%.

>> Aren't they helpful? I know how they paid for that stadium now. Okay. 12%,

huh? On 15,000. And what's your household income?

>> Uh before taxes, uh 112,000.

>> Okay. So, how fast are you going to pay off the 15?

>> Well, we would like to pay it off within

a year and a half. >> That's awful. Is there something ahead of it? Is that why it would take so long?

Like, do you have other debts you're attacking first?

>> We have um we still have a thousand left to pay off on a furniture that we brought and then we also have a car loan. We have 18,000 left on that.

>> Okay. >> And then starting back in July, >> I was going to say the car shouldn't come before the 15,000.

>> Okay. Our payment is pretty high. Our payment is $679.

>> So, what we have learned is the fastest way to get out of debt and the most sure way to get out of debt when it comes to everything but the house is to list your debts smallest to largest. Pay minimum

payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one with a vengeance.

And I mean no eating out. I mean no

vacations. I mean nothing. scorched

earth on your lifestyle and you attack these debts. You make too much money to

be this freaking broke. And if I'm you, I'm going to pay all of this off in just

over a year. >> Mhm.

>> A year. >> Yes. But you have no life during that year. You understand me?

>> And right now you're right now you're trying to slow walk this and figure out some interest rate that gets you out of debt. There is not an interest rate to get you out of debt. What gets you out of debt is when you get so pissed off that you've been screwed over by SoFi and the car companies that you attack this stuff with a vengeance.

>> Are you guys doing anything outside of your normal jobs? Any side hustles?

Anything to bring in extra money?

>> No, we aren't. >> That's the key. I'm telling you, that's the key to knock this out because the longer the horizon on this, the the less likely are you are to complete it. If you're not attacking this with intensity, it's just going to be h I'm tired of doing this. Oh, we've done it long enough. This is we paid off the car. That's good enough. Right. You've got to be intense, which means the income that's going towards this debt has got to be as high as possible.

>> Yeah. And and the outgo is nothing.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, I'm not kidding. Do not see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job.

Because if you did that, if you committed, if if you and your husband both said, "Man, we're both going to do a side hustle. We're both going to bring in an extra $2 or $3,000 a month." Oh my goodness. >> So, Rachel, here's the deal. Okay, you can wander into debt, and we've helped more people get out of debt than any other organization in

America. We know what we're doing. You

can wander into debt, but you cannot wander out. You have to get angry about

this situation. So angry that you become sacrificial in your lifestyle because you want rid of this because it's standing between you and prosperity.

It's standing between you and becoming a millionaire. It's standing between you and changing your whole family tree. You

got screwed by SoFi, but you allowed it.

You signed up for it. You got screwed by the car company, but you allowed it. You signed up for it, so no more.

>> Okay, >> I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be the the person that gets stepped on anymore, and I'm going to punch back so hard that it goes away.

When you do all of that, your question that you called in with becomes almost irrelevant. >> That's right. >> Because 12% on $7,000 is not your

problem. That's $7800.

Yeah, >> that's $800 for a year. $800 does not

fix a $30,000 problem. And you have a

car debt, a sofi debt, and a $1,000 debt. That's 30,000 bucks. And so you've

got, you know, and and you don't have an $800 problem. You have a $30,000

problem. $2500 a month for one year and you're done.

Now, where are you gonna get it? You're gonna get it from cutting lifestyle and increasing income and cutting lifestyle and increasing income and you're going to go so hard that your broke friends think you joined a cult. Now, I don't know if you're ready to do that or not.

I can't make that decision for you. If I could, I would because I know that the 10 year ver 10 year from now version of you would love you. >> You're going to you're going to the time is going to pass anyway and you're going to go, "Ah, if only I had listened to that that guy on the radio." >> Oh, and here's the other thing. The faster you get out of debt because of increased income and sacrificed lifestyle, the more likely you do get out of debt.

The more you drag it out and sloww walk it, >> the better the chance is that you just stay in debt forever and it just becomes normal. Well, everybody's gotten screwed by Sofi, so we might as well just be like everybody else. >> Yeah, that's >> and your brain starts to normalize the

stupidity that is America today.

>> Yep. And so, and then we've got Gen Z

saying, "I can't afford to buy a house because Congress screwed them with student loans.

Their their college screwed them with student loans.

Ford Motor Company, Lexus Motor Company, Toyota Motor Company put them in $1,200 car payments.

Sofi put them in 12% personal loans. And

we're here to help you with your money.

Oh, bull crap. You're here to help you with my money is what you're here to help. We know who you are. And you know

this is this is it. And you know when you look at Gen Z, they got record credit card debt, record car loans, record student loans, and then they say, "Well, I can't afford to buy a house." Well, no kidding. >> Yeah, >> cuz you got screwed by everybody in sight. And the only thing I would do if I was Gen Z is I'd get really angry about that and I would clean this mess up and take these villains out of my life and say never again. See, I was I

was 28 when I went broke and American Express called my house and asked my wife why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. And she called me crying at the office and said I was thinking the same thing.

I got so mad that I'm 65 and I'm still

mad.

If American Express calls my house now, it's a wrong number

cuz I'm not going anywhere near anything that freaking company does ever. They

screw people for a living. I don't want anything to do with City Bank. What's in

your wallet? money, not your crap.

That's what's in my wallet.

See, you got to get that thing going like that. That's swagger. And and you

know, that's what happened with Jaden Sam. He said, "I'm not living like this.

I've had it." >> Yeah. >> I I'm done.

>> Yeah. You have to get to the point where you're you're instead of blaming people, you're just you're just mad about it and you're realizing, uh, the same people that screwed you aren't going to come save you. They they you know what I'm saying? Like, they're not going to help you. So, you have to help yourself. That's the only way. That's the only way you get out of this. It's the only way.

>> Yeah. When you get twisted up about it and you say, "I'm looking around out here and none of these people have my best interest at heart." >> Nope. >> And including the balance transfer 0% credit card. Well, you know, you know what that is?

>> I'm betting you not going to pay it off in 20 months. And you're not going to pay it off in 20 months if you don't change the way you're doing this. >> Yeah. And they're just going to send you more offers.

>> Well, no. They're going to jack you to 28%.

>> Yeah. >> At the end of 20 months, they're going to hand you a, you know, oh man, it's going to be bad. It's they hand you a new piece of paper and you're going to go, I think I got a little throw up in my mouth. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Cuz I I've signed I did it again.

I signed up with one of these companies.

Fifth Third's here to help. Give me a break. They're going to screw you.

When you walk into the finance company or the finance office of the car dealer,

it should have a sign over the top of it that says, "Enter here to get screwed."

Cuz that's what they're going to do. They're going to jack you up.

And it's to their benefit, not yours.

All you get out of it is toxic smell from the plastic that's new in the car.

And we call it new car smell.

It's the plastic that's new and it's toxicity. Let me help you with this.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Cassandra is in New York

City. Hi Cassandra. How are you?

>> Hi Dave.

Ah, first thank you for your incredible gifts and the wisdom you share so generously. Your teachings truly made a difference in my life. Years ago, I joined Financial I joined Financial Peace University um and wiped out $80,000 in debt. And >> look at you ever since.

>> Proud of you. Way to go, kiddo.

>> Thank you. Thank you. But now I feel torn between responsibility and boundaries. I have family in a third world country and also family here who are struggling financially. I have been helping but now it feels expected and

they openly talk about what they want me

to pay for. I feel guilty saying no but

I also worry because they do need the money. How do I help in a healthy way

without being taken advantage of or feeling resentful and or becoming their

financial plan knowing that I'm supposed to give anyway? And lastly, I don't

appreciate that the privacy and the mystery of where the money is coming from is not there. And therefore, it doesn't feel like I'm giving money. It's more it feels more like not it doesn't feel like I'm giving money like a gift, but more like an obligation. Yeah, that's true.

>> That's what entitlement does. Yeah,

>> that's no fun. Okay, so what amounts of

money and how much is state side and how

much is in the developing country?

>> Okay, so my family in Haiti um in Haiti

>> they need everything.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> They need everything. We're talking about um >> Now, how much money have you been how much money have you been giving the people in Haiti? And who is it? Your mother or your dad or what?

>> So, my my parents live here in the States and I help them out as well. They have retired, but they do not have that

much money to retire off of. So, >> Okay, that's one. Who Who's in Haiti?

>> Um my brother and my sister and my siblings. So, my brother has five children and a wife and my sister has two children and her my nephew just had

a baby and um yeah, >> what kinds of money? >> My girlfriend has a sister up there.

>> In a year's time, how much money are you filtering to these folks >> in Haiti?

>> So, sometimes I send like um $600 to

one, $800 to the other. Um um I send

$400. So it depends because sometimes the kids needs to go to school. So we pay for I pay for them to go to school and then I pay for food. I also pay I

mean I'm also working on helping them to come to the states. So that involves um applications um to >> So if you had to put a rough estimate what's a dollar amount that you would say yearly I'm spending this amount of money on Haiti.

>> I would say about like $10,000,000.

Okay. And and how about your mom and dad?

Okay. So, my mother um she I've been

giving her about $400 to $600 a month,

but I've been scaling back off of that because I I found out that she hasn't been using it appropriately.

>> What's she using it on?

>> Um so, she she likes to buy things and she likes to show off to her friends that she has money. So, >> okay. So, can we can we make the statement about everyone involved?

A, we love them and we want good things for them. True.

>> Yes. >> Okay. B, no matter how much money we give them, it's not going to be enough.

>> Okay?

>> I mean, you could you could triple what you're giving them and nothing will change in their lives.

And that's why we are working now on getting them to the states.

>> Yeah. But and and that's so that's a good that's a good that's a sustainable investment. But just throwing $300 into

a family of eight in Haiti doesn't even

move the needle. You could throw 3,000

in that same hole and it would still go down the hole.

>> So you can't give them enough money to be God.

and >> you don't have that much money. And so

it's, you know, all you're doing is getting aggravated and helping a tiny tiny bit, but the amount of money you're giving into these situations is not changing their lives. It might feed them for a day. It might help them with their application to come to the states. Both of which are good things. But you know

you So I if I'm going to give any more money, I'm going to have two different things on it. Three things on it. One is you're going to be responsible with the money that you have, mother.

Two, um we're going to set a set amount

and that's all I'm going to do.

Three, I'll help with the applications.

Okay? But I'm not gonna 600 800 400 300

and them thinking, "Oh, she's just made of money and I'm feeling used

and guilty and they're still and they're

still want more. There's no end to it."

And so what we've got to do is put a boundary on it, put an amount on it, and say, "I'm going to give you X per month

and I'll help with the application."

That's it. Don't ask for any more.

>> So, should I do that? Like, so now would I would I now be on the hook? Because now I I >> It's up to you. If you don't want the the amount of money you can give per month can be zero, but you need to set an amount >> and that's for your budgeting purposes >> and you need and and for your sanity.

>> Yeah. >> Because this has this is like a dog chasing its tail. It's got no end to it.

That's what's driving you crazy. >> Do I It is. But the But it's also

expected of me. >> I don't care what's expected.

>> All right. You get to set the expectations. >> You get to decide what's expected. I'm not expected of anything. Bull crap.

>> You get You can sit down with me. >> Let me help you with this. You get nothing. I decide. I changed my mind. I'm not giving you any more money. You can do that. That's perfectly okay. And you have no reason to feel guilty for that at all. >> Okay. You know how much money I'm sending your family? None. You know how guilty I am about it? Not at all.

>> Yeah. >> I'm not I'm not obligated. >> They're hungry. >> I'm I'm not obligated. There's a lot of people hungry. I'm not They're I'm not Jesus. I can't feed all of them.

>> Okay. I feed some hungry people as an act of charity, but not as an act of obligation or guilt.

And we do feed hungry people through the Ramsay Family Foundation. We do that.

Okay. But we don't feed everybody on the planet. We don't have the money. And I feel zero guilt about that.

Okay. So, you have got you've got to put this in your head that you're not Jesus.

That job's taken. He already took the job.

>> You can only do a little bit. You do not

have the money to be God.

You cannot fix their lives.

And once you accept that, then you can explain that to them and say, "I can't

fix your whole life, but I can do it this much a month." And that's what I'm willing to do. And if you don't like it, I can send nothing. Also, that's a possibility if you're a jerk about it.

If you don't appreciate it and say thank you a lot, I can give you nothing.

That's not That's a total possibility.

But in the meantime, I'm willing to do this, but you're not the Messiah. The job's taken.

When I talk to people on the Ramsay show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money is going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollars tell

your money where to go with a budget. It also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket.

So don't keep living normal. Go download

the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed. But Yi helps borrowers explore low fixed rate

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might not be in all states.

>> Okay. Today's question comes from Parker in Tennessee. Uh he says, "My wife and I move every few years for work and we rented homes each time. Our friends recently bought a house for 1.5 million, which I know is out of their price range. So I asked how they did it. They said they did an interestonly mortgage.

What are your thoughts on this type of loan? It sounds like it's renting a house, but you get the benefits of ownership. Would buying a house this way be a smart move for somebody that relocates frequently, or should we keep

renting? So, there's there's two concepts in there. There's the friends who have the $ 1.5 million house, which that feels like they're personal residents. They're not relocating as often as you do.

But you're saying, is this a good idea for for us since we relocate? Um, and I would say no. under any opaces of the the idea this is a horrible idea and it's the product is really just what it's what it is you're only paying interest. So if you're not paying any of the principal you're never paying down the mortgage.

So in essence you're just renting a house.

really what you're doing for a period of time. Um so I there there's no real advantage that I can think of for you to do this. Um, I mean, after the interest

period ends, your your payment's going to jump up anyway because you will start paying principal. Um, and you're just paying more interest over time. It's probably, I got to believe, it's one of the most expensive ways that you could buy a house. >> Yeah. And actually, on the short term, owning a home is more expensive than renting.

Heat and air goes out. >> Sure. >> Roof leaks.

Property taxes go up. >> Uhhuh. homeowners insurance goes up, all

of those things. You still got all those things. And if you move and try to sell the house and um you've reduced the

principle, not at all, you're likely going to take a loss. >> Oh, yeah. Upside down between how often you move. So, no, you need to stay away from it. So, um anything that sounds too

good to be true is. And your friends Parker are short-term thinkers.

>> Yeah, I wasn't very smart. >> They're not thinking long term.

There are people that think, "Thank God it's Friday. Oh god, it's Monday. I want something. I want it now. And I'm going to buy it even though I can't afford it." And by the way, the interesting thing is the difference in a payment on an interestonly loan and a 30-year, which we don't recommend.

>> Not much difference.

>> Not a lot of difference. No. Because think about your 30-year mortgage. The first payment you pay has almost no principal reduction. It's almost all interest. So, the payment's almost the same. It's not $50 difference or something like that. It's not a lot different, but the concept is way different because it describes someone who's thinking short-term and is immature rather than someone that's thinking long term. So >> the other part of this that I can't help but just call out is if you said, "Hey,

they bought this house for 1.5. I know it's out of their price range, so I asked how they did it." That that's the wrong question to ask. You don't look at someone. Ask how they did it so you don't do it. >> Right. Not so you go, "Oh, they're buying things they can't afford. Let me figure out how to do it, too." >> How I can buy things I can't afford.

Yeah. >> It's not a great method. >> Really bad. Yeah, that that was that was kind of laying there and I missed it on the page. Yeah. Mark's in Washington DC.

Hey Mark, what's up?

>> Hey, how you guys doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I've got uh a little bit of a funner question. I think you've helped me out in the past. About 8 years ago, we were drowning in consumer debt. Just bought a new house and since then we are 100% debtree. >> Good for you. >> House and everything. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> House and everything. We got really angry and really focused. Eight years later, knocked it out.

>> Well, I'm glad I was there eight years ago. That's awesome.

>> That's really cool. >> Me, too. Me, too. Um, and we're kind of we, you know, we we've

definitely let off the gas some. Uh, still focused, still intentional, but still frugal. >> And, uh, I'd like to, um, take my wife

to Italy. And I'm curious as to how much

would be a responsible amount to spend on about a 10day trip to Italy.

>> What's your household income?

>> Uh, it's about 200. And uh how what's your net worth now?

>> Uh right now it's probably just north of

a million. >> Wow. >> Okay, good for you. That's a nice eight-year turn.

>> Okay. And uh and how much money do you have saved for the Italy trip?

>> Um so we're going to go in the fall, so

we're going to work towards saving towards it. But I was I was thinking

like for the way that we like to travel, which again was very frugal. I was thinking for Italy probably between like 8 to 10.

>> I would double that.

>> I mean, you got to price it out and see.

>> I would double that.

>> Okay. >> You're a millionaire. You're responsible. You're careful. You make $200,000 a year. Of course, you're paying cash for this.

>> 100%. >> No question. and um $16,000 on a on a

worldass epic adventure is not out of

hand for you.

>> Okay. >> So, I'd put 15 on the budget and say we need to save up 15 between now and the fall and then go do it upright. That's 10 days. That's That's still not a lot of money. You're you're still not I mean you're you're not say staying in the four seasons doing that.

>> Have you have you priced anything out?

Have you looked at it?

>> We've looked at flights. Um I've looked at a couple like Airbnbs and things like that that some people have sent me.

>> Um places that like would kind of fit our style. >> Okay. >> And uh you know they they I was surprised because they're like, you know, it's it's kind of like going on a trip in the US. Like it's not that bad going over there. And I was kind of surprised by that. So >> Okay. >> Um I' I've heard you've been over there a couple times. Are there any things over there that like we should definitely see in your opinion?

>> What part of Italy are you going to?

>> My wife wants to go uh Sicily to

Florence, which I told her, hey, I just looked at the map and those are on two options. >> Yeah, that's right. Listen, I love Florence in that area. Florence, Pisa,

uh, and anything in that area, I think you're going to you can't go wrong. Great food, too. >> Yeah, Tuscany is amazing. Yeah, I mean, the food wine scene in Tuscan is off the chain. Of course, you got Florence has got the um statue of David.

>> Um it's got uh and and you know, an hour and a half away is is the leaning tower.

And so that's all touchable right there.

That's all doable. Actually, you can get down to Rome. Rome's full of tourist everything. >> Yeah. >> From the from the coliseum to the Vatican to whatever. Um and

>> uh and uh tourist hack. Uh if you're

going to spend a little money, if you're going to Rome, if you're going to go into the Vatican and you're going to go into the Systeine Chapel and so forth, you're going to see the museum, hire a private guide, and you don't stand in line for uh uh 2 and 1/2 days to get in.

It's it's it's a mile and a half long and you walk past every bit of it with a private guide and straight in like you're a snotty rich person and just go do it for sure.

>> And uh it's definitely the way to go.

And you know that's just a couple things. But I mean, yeah, Rome's full of uh things you've read about your whole life and thought about your whole life.

And so it's it's amazing. You stay there the whole time probably. It just depends on what you want to do. I mean, and and what it is you're after. uh what what type of experiences you're trying to uh curate in the process. But yeah, you can you can drop 15K pretty quick over there and and still be called frugal.

>> Absolutely. Especially in 10 days.

>> Yeah. And you did it, Mark. You lived

like no one else for eight years.

And now you're still young and you can

live and give like no one else. And so,

yeah, enjoy this. plan it out, stay

within the plan, and that helps you enjoy it because you're not stressed out about busting the budget or something.

>> You're But you're not being quote unquote irresponsible. Not even close.

Well done, sir.

Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsay trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsay trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. Well, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand and factual.

Median home prices went up a little last month to 403,000.

We typically do see that in the spring season because it gets a little busier.

Mortgage rates also dipped all the way to 5.43, down from 6.1 that we saw last February,

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or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on YouTube. Maria is in Houston. Hi, Maria.

How are you?

>> Hi.

Um, thanks so much for taking your call.

Um, I'm calling about my marriage. Uh, my husband and I are not aligned financially.

Um, and unfortunately I knew this before getting married. Um, this could be 10 years we've been married and um, I was a

single mom. Uh, when we met, my daughter

was 12. He helped raise her. Um, she was

19 when we got married. Um, but we keep our finances separate. Um he's a saver.

Uh in the past I've been a spender and I've worked really hard to uh get my act together and um he bought the house

cash. He bought the house when we were engaged, but he did not put my name on it. Um and um I'm an entrepreneur. When

I wasn't whether or not I was earning money, I was responsible for all of the expenses of the house because he bought the house cash.

And um I'm now in a place that I'm earning money, which feels good. And he's uh a lot of times just said, "Well, you now now that you sit at the adult table, >> oh, >> we can have adult conversations." >> Oh.

>> And um as long as I keep my eyes on God

and I focus on myself and I um I'm okay

with it. Um but I'm obviously not okay

with it.

every time I bring it up, it causes a big issue. And so I just pretend like

I'm okay with it. And I know my daughter

um thinks it's not good for me. And um I

don't know. I don't know what to do.

>> What made me call you today is that um

we uh we have a fourbedroom house. We

have a roommate. Uh because look, the roommate covers it property taxes. Um

>> you you have a roommate living in your home that's paid for?

>> Um yes, we do. >> Why? >> Yeah, because um he that covers the

property taxes. >> Well, I mean, why can't you guys cover the property taxes? Y'all aren't broke.

>> Yeah, exactly. And um so um when he

Let's stop a minute. What does your husband make a year?

My husband retired at 43.

Um, and he now has um a part-time gig that

he does just so he has play money.

>> Um, >> so what does he what does he plan on living on if he retired at 43? Does he have a huge savings?

>> He does. >> What how much does he have in his investments? >> I don't know because have access

I think 5 million.

>> Okay. Okay. And and what do you make a year? >> Um um conservatively 100.

>> Okay. >> Is it commission based?

>> Okay. Well, so here's the thing. We get

in relationships um what we tolerate.

For 10 years, you've tolerated being treated this way.

and you're running out of

uh toleration.

You're running out of steam. You're not willing to tolerate it anymore. And that's why you called us. Um and so I do

not know in a radio call or a podcast call how to navigate through 10 years of

uh you being treated like you're not an adult. >> Mhm. and um and through all the pain

that I hear in your voice, I don't think we can navigate through all of that um

in in one phone call. But I I I will

tell you, just listening to you, I think your marriage is probably going to end if you guys don't do something to heal it

because I don't think you're going to stay much longer. >> Yeah. >> If you don't do something to heal it. I don't know that you've said that out loud to yourself. And I'm not suggesting that. I'm just observing that um talking

to a lady who's completely done.

>> Yeah. If you've had to convince yourself that the only way to survive in there is to basically keep your mouth shut and

>> have a roommate. >> Yeah. >> That's just strange. We have $5 million,

but we're so cheap. We have a roommate to pay our property taxes. No, thank you. Not how I want to live. So,

what would I do if I were in your shoes, Maria? I think I would sit down. I would get on the phone and call your pastor, call your church, and get a recommendation of a good faith-based marriage counselor that can sit down with you and coach you and uh coach him.

And then I would sit down with your husband and say, "I've made an appointment with a marriage counselor on Tuesday. Uh because I want to try to save our marriage because it's almost over and I want to try to save it. Do you want to come?" >> Have you ever tried that?

>> We have um we've gotten to that point and he um we started we'll do a couple

sessions and then we things get better.

He's even put my name on some of um cuz

our finances aren't blended. He's even put my name on on some of the accounts.

>> Um but my name is still not on the house

and I I I

Yeah. So we've done it like three or four times and one time I I actually um

>> Well, I mean are you do you want to try again or are you done?

>> Yes. I don't I no I I >> I don't want to try again unless I think it's going to work.

>> And so I'm going to demand that this time it works.

>> Have you sat with a counselor? Just you.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. I think you guys have got that to do. I don't think we can help you on this show, hun. >> We're not we're not we're not qualified.

Number one, we're just your friend and we're sitting here with you hurting and I'm sorry you're hurting. I can't do

anything about any of that. And I don't have a magic phrase to say that hasn't worked in three rounds of marriage counseling. Uh but I will tell you doing what I do and knowing that the number one cause of divorce is money problems and money fights over money. Um I will

tell you that I I'm honestly surprised you've made it as far as you have.

>> Yeah. >> Um statistically. I'm glad you're still

married. Um, and and I want you to he your marriage to heal. Uh, but yeah, you you guys are you're going to have to

uh sit down and you guys are going to have to lay out some milestones, some things that we agree that these things are going to happen and these things are

never going to happen again. And we've got our little list of five things that we always do and five things that we never do. And you know that will include

full transparency and understanding where the money is and I have a vote on the money and you never talk to me like I'm not an adult again and tell me I get to sit at the big girl table. That's so

freaking demeaning. It's unbelievable.

But you know that you know but but you've put up with it for 10 years. So some of this is on you. So you've got to call this.

And um I I recommend you try another

round. Uh but I would put very clear

expectations in that round of counseling that these things have to occur or I'm not staying.

And if you do stay after that, now it's your fault.

>> I think that's what she's struggling with. >> Yeah. You keep staying and nothing changes and now it's your fault. So if

you want to make one more pass at it, you can. And I recommend you try it, but

with some very clear objectives. I think we kind of went in sideways and said, "We this just needs to get better as some kind of general statement instead of saying here's specific things that must change and here's specific things that can never happen anymore.

And those are my conditions.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseyolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Scripture of the day is Philippians 4:8.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things.

Charles Schultz says, "Life is like a 10-speed bike. Most of us have gears we never use." >> Interesting.

>> This is true. Faith is in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi, Faith. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I'm a single mom. Um, I'm 30

years old and I kind of just started, you know, kind of paying attention to my finances. So, I'm a little late to the game, but um, I'm on baby step number

two and I'm trying to pay off my debt, but at the same time, I want to make sure that I'm saving um, for my son, for

his future. So, in my budget, I have been putting a little bit aside, but not much. I've just been putting it into a savings account. And I've heard you talk about like 529 accounts and different ways to save. I just didn't know if that kind of account is useful for someone who can't put like that much into it every month. >> Probably not. But I wouldn't be putting anything aside for your son right now.

You are investing for your son by getting yourself squared away because as

you get yourself squared away and out of debt and build wealth, it's going to benefit him.

>> Yeah. I'm just I'm the my biggest where I feel I'm feeling so much anxiety because I feel like my student loans are so big. Like >> how many how much do you owe on your student loans? >> I owe um 54,000.

>> Yeah. Cool. What do you make a year?

>> I make 58,000. >> Doing what?

>> Um I work for a construction. I'm an admin like kind of assistant >> here. Um but I just got promoted to salary so I'm making a little bit more.

>> And you're 30 years old and your baby's how old?

He's four years old. >> Cool. Cool. And where's daddy?

>> Um he's I mean um he's still he's in town and stuff and he does give me some child support um every month. It's like

400. Um but I do use a lot of that to like pay for child care and and that kind of thing. >> That's what it's for. Sure.

>> And you and you have 50 58,000 student

loans. What other debts do you have?

Um, I have uh 15,000 left on my car.

>> Uhhuh. >> And then I just I have a personal loan uh for 5,000 that I used to pay for a little bit for a lawyer and to like clear off a couple credit cards that I had when we were together.

>> Mhm. Have you cut up all the credit cards? >> Yeah. So, the credit cards are gone and I've been door dashing um every other weekend when I don't have my son and I've been putting everything I make onto that onto that personal loan right now.

>> Great. >> Good. Very good. You're doing the right thing. >> And anything else you can find in that budget, >> you throw it on that too and get it cleared off. >> Then you get the car cleared off and then we talk uh go after the student loans. So, um, you're right with Door

Dash and a four-year-old and 30 years old and making 58, uh, with what you

owe, it's going to be a little while. You're going to take a while, but it's not going to take 10 years.

>> It's just not going to happen in two years, >> right? >> But you will be amazed when you knock off the car and the personal loan how

much that frees up your budget to attack this student loan. And then you've probably got another two or three years at that point.

>> Yeah. When you knock out the car, that's going to give you a new lease on life.

You're going to feel so good >> having that money back in your pocket every time you get in that car. And that's going to almost act like a reset for you mentally when you start attacking the student loans. >> But let let's reset for a second on your

four-year-old son. Okay?

>> Let me tell you about him.

He has a mom who is a warrior princess who knows how to fight and scrape and

cause things to happen.

That's going to help him more than $10 a month being stuck in a savings account.

He's watching you live your life well.

And then as he watches you scrap and claw to get out of debt, he's going to learn to stay out of debt when he's older because he'll remember what we went through. My mom was a single mom and it was tough.

And that doesn't kill the kid. It makes him awesome.

So he is really blessed. I don't know why it makes me feel like it makes me feel so guilty that I'm not like, you know, able to save like more for him than he's >> Well, the best thing you can do for him is not be a problem later.

>> Yeah. >> Truly, >> by cleaning this up and becoming a millionaire.

And you actually can do that, believe it or not. Let's pretend that it's five

hard years from today. and uh pull up

the calculator. And so 35 to65 and we

save 15% of $65,000.

Okay, five hard years from today, you're

debtree and you have an emergency fund, okay?

Student loans and everything. And that's going to be hard. That's like really watching every penny, door dashing, everything you can do. Hard five years.

But you're you're tough. You can do this. >> Five years. >> Yeah. And then at fi at 35 years old, you start investing 15% of your income because you have no payments. >> Mhm. How much? 15%.

>> 15% of 60,000 would be uh $9,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so that's going to uh

500 plus two 750 a month.

>> Okay. >> Okay. and uh do that from 35 to 65 in a

mutual fund. Let's we're going to put it in our calculator right now to see how rich you're going to be. Okay, Faith,

that's $2.3 million

>> when you're 65.

So, if you invest 15% of your income and

you make $60,000 a year and you never get a raise for 30 years, >> highly unlikely >> from age 35 to age 65 and you're able to

invest that because you cleared off this

debt in the coming 5 years and you spent

five more years of hell. The kid is nine

years old >> when you are debtree and begin investing.

All right? And and then when you are at

his wedding, you will be a millionaire.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> That's where you're headed. That's where you're headed. And that's the best gift you can give him.

>> He's not going to be h he's, you know, harmed if you don't put a dime in savings for him today. Because by taking

care of you, you're setting yourself up

to be able to help him. in any way you want to later. >> And and by the way, you know, we've been teaching this, I know Dave, you've been teaching this long enough that we have people who come and their parents did

FPU and their parents walked the baby

steps and now the children are standing on stage and the children are part of that legacy. And they never come back and say, "Oh, it was so hard because my parents walked the baby steps and they never saved anything for me when I was four." They don't say that. They say, "I learned how to handle money from a young age. I never got into debt. And then when I married my spouse, we immediately attacked our house and we became millionaire." You know, >> my mom taught me how to do hard work.

My mom taught me what resilience looks like because she lived it. These are the

gifts you're giving him. He's going to have a great life because of you. And so

quit putting money in savings for him

out of some kind of false guilt that you're not taking care of him. My point is you're taking care of him beautifully. But you got to follow through on all this. It's not going to magically happen.

There's no genie in a bottle that does it. It's not going to get easy. It's not going to be where there's no trouble. The transmission's still going to go out and the tire's still going to be low.

The uh you know, somebody's still going to steal something from you. Stuff's going to happen through your life. You can count on all that still occurring. But the point is, you got to have a target and a plan.

will have taken care of him better by taking care of you than by putting $10 a month aside out of some kind of misdirected guilt.

>> Like you've done something wrong that you should be ashamed of. You're a single mom with a four-year-old and you're 30. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Now go get you some, girl.

This is your time. It's your time. go

make this happen and we're going to set you up with everything. All right? We're going to put you into Financial Peace University. We're going to put you into our uh Every Dollar app and we're going to pay for all of it and give it to you as a gift cuz we think you're a hero.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 59. Financial Momentum Starts With a Shift in Perspective | May 14, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, [music] co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour here on the Ramsey Networks is my co-host today. The

phone number is 888255225. [music]

you jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Betty is in Washington,

DC. Hi, Betty. How are you?

>> I'm hanging in there. I can't believe I'm actually talking to you.

>> Well, I'm honored. How can you How can we help you today?

>> Uh, well, I'm I'm going to apologize up

front in case I cry because this has been a really stressful situation. Um, but long story short, my husband and I have a house that we cannot afford. Um, our mortgage payment is over $6,000 a month and it's been listed for over two months now and the house is just not selling. Um, and we got we got a report

back from our Ramsey Trusted Real Estate agents last night. Um, that's not very good. And so we're looking at either having to drop the price again and try to find $30,000 while we're in baby step

two to be able to pay to get out of this house that we can't afford. Um,

and the other options that they gave us really were to potentially look at a short sale or a deed and loo or something like that. And those options aren't on the table because my husband will lose his job if we go that route and I I don't know what to do.

>> Okay. So, what what is your household income?

Um, my husband is currently working um

between 24 and 30 hours of overtime each week to be able to bring in $12,000 a month take-home.

>> Okay. All right. And your payment is 6,000. And how much debt have you got in baby step two?

>> Um, well, we we started out with a lot

more than this in July of last year, >> but we were able to get cruising through through December. Um, and now we just have $45,000 left on two personal loans.

>> So, how much how much have you paid off before that from when you started in June down to 45? What did it start at?

>> Uh, we I I think the balance was a little over 70,000.

>> Okay. So, how did you get that 30,000

given that this house payment so how did you manage to pull that off?

>> That's impressive.

My husband did receive um a bonus at the end of last year and we used all of that. Um and I I was working at the time

when we first got it got started with our debt snowball. Um but over the course of last year um I lost all three

of my part-time jobs and I have not been

able to find another one. Um and we have

a seven-month-old so I was pregnant during all of that chaos as well. on.

Um, no, no one will hire will hire me

apparently. >> Yeah. Um, what what is your career field?

>> Um, I am primarily a stay-at-home mom. I

homeschool. So, I >> No, I mean the jobs that the jobs that you've been getting, what were you doing? I mean, what is your if you could go get a dream job right now making $6,000 a month, what would it be?

>> I worked remotely um doing data entry for the past 10 years.

Making making what what were you making?

>> Um I was making about $2,000 a month.

>> Okay. All right. Good. All right.

[sighs] Okay. Um

well um and and the house you you owe so

much on it. That's what the 30,000 is is that you're afraid you'll have to sell it for less than or you'll net less than you owe. Right. >> Correct, sir. >> Okay. All right. What did the report say? You said you got a bad report from the real estate pro.

Um yeah, just that if we didn't lower

the price, they thought that we had less than a 10% success, like likely success rate of being able to sell it.

>> Um we've been in the house for just under two years. We originally purchased it. Um it was supposed to be with my parents. We were supposed to split it and um at as soon as we closed, before

the first mortgage payment came, my dad went back on his word and said he had never agreed to split it 50% with us. um which was what we were all under the impression would happen. And then since >> is he is he on the mortgage?

>> No, he is not. >> And not [clears throat] on the ownership either. Okay. >> No. >> Okay. All right. Um well, here's the

thing. The great news is is that with bonuses and finding extra work, both of

which could be easily in your future, you've been able to hang on and reduce debt by $30,000. That's fairly impressive, really. And so if we can add the bonuses and the income from you, and

I think you can, back to the equation, even if you stop your debt snowball temporarily and start piling up cash to write a check and get out of this house, um you you can make that that's going to that's going to work. You're going to be able to do that. That you're not trapped. You're just in a really sucky temporary situation.

But you know, 10 years from now, this will be in the rearview mirror and you'll be going, "Oh, that's a dumb thing I did. My dad lied and wouldn't have done it without that. And dad gum, what a horrible mess we got in just about the time the baby baby was born.

By the time Rachel was that age, by the way, I filed bankruptcy. So there you go. I mean, and and I'm okay now, you know. So you're going to be okay is my point. U but right now the snapshot that we take, it's got tears in it and that's valid. Okay. The snapshot is this. I

can't breathe. But the film strip says there's an end to the movie. That's not the end of the world. The rainbow comes out. So, um, yeah. So, so I I would say

stop your debt snowball temporarily and

just start piling up cash because as soon as you start seeing options, your um anxiety level is going to go down.

Um, and yeah, he picks up all the hours he can pick up and you pick up all the hours you can pick up and yes, you'll find something. You just gone through a dry spot here and nobody's hiring people who have seven-month-olds. Not true.

You're in Washington DC. You'll find something. I mean, it's it's Is it easy?

No. The job market's kind of slow right now, but uh but you can I think you can do it. Um even if you don't get any

income coming in, you can make the payment >> and not go into foreclosure, short sale, or anything else uh for for a period of time until you get rid of it. And while pile up 30,000 bucks and get ready to do what the real estate agent said, let's write a check and get rid of this hell hole. It's driving us nuts, right? Have

you guys actually done a budget to see where this other $6,000 is going in your take-home pay? Because you might find some a,000 or 2,000 bucks right there.

>> Yeah. Um we we have we've actually been pretty locked in since July. Um which

I'm thankful for, but um generally

speaking with the work that we had to do to prepare the house for sale and everything, I think we're able to put aside about 1,000 to,200 um a month. right now to go >> and and then you add your income that you're going to get and you add his bonus >> and you start selling stuff because the house is going to get sold anyways. Might as well clear some rooms out, make some money off Facebook Marketplace >> and all that can help if you get creative. >> Yeah.

And again, I take the pressure off yourself to get rid of the $45,000 unless it's a $45,000 car. If it is, sell it and be done with it.

you're you know but I I think that the the proper perspective on this will give

you a lot of um give you some of your fight back um and get the tears back

push the tears back from the edge a little bit and go oh yeah we can do this. This is actually doable. I think you can. [music] Um but I think it's going to be I think the next 12 months are not going to be fun. Um and you get

rid of the house. you got $30,000 and then you go knock out the 45 and you know you learn a whole bunch of lessons in this short period of time about the time the baby was born and you'll look back on that 20 years later and baby's 27 and you'll go man when you were born our life sucked >> and the baby will go I don't remember that. >> Yeah, I don't remember that. >> What's for dinner? >> I don't remember that.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Nate's in Houston. Hi Nate. How are you

>> doing? Great.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> I have a question about boundaries with

parents and money. So, um,

got to have a family, you know, member or my mom and dad. they want to gift us a vehicle. Um, they had a track or at least my dad's had a track record of just using parent guilt throughout my life and

it's really created just some tension in our marriage. Um, my dad likes to have

control over our life when he doesn't have any really means to it. You know, we have I'm a bread winner and my wife

stays home, takes care of the kids.

We're active in a church. we're active um and we're states away, so it's really nice to just have that distance,

>> but we are trying to respectfully

decline even though they're very pushy on trying to give us this vehicle >> when in fact um you know, they want us

to be, you know, going Yeah. So, just

trying to find a way to respectfully do that. So, it sounds like you over a period of time have established some boundaries because of this pattern

>> and now they're like, "Oh, I think I'm going to try it again."

>> Pretty much. Yeah. And >> I mean, there's not any current They don't currently have any hooks in you, do they?

>> No. Okay. >> My brother, though. >> Well, not you, but I'm talking about you. Okay. >> Yes. No. No hooks.

>> Yeah. And so they're like, "Okay, well, we ain't getting any hooks in him, so let's set one." Right.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> So, I mean, just don't be a bass.

>> Don't be a bass. Yeah. >> Don't bite. Right. Don't bite on the hook, man. >> It's just I mean, so >> Yeah. When you say they keep pushing, are they like calling you saying, "Hey, we really want to get you this car. What do we got to do?" >> It I mean Yeah. I mean, they're they're it's like texting. It's, you know, and then you get on the phone and it's

>> Can you just say talk about this?

>> Here's the thing. When someone's doing stuff like this, the fewer words and the

shorter the conversation you have, the better for everyone, them and you.

>> Because the longer you stay in a conversation, the more likely you are to revisit all the past sins. And that doesn't do anyone any good because they're not going to change.

Yes. >> And so, you know, no is a complete

sentence and keep your sentence pretty close to that. >> Hey, Dad. Love you, man. Thank you for the offer. Not going to be able to do that this time. We've got other plans.

Thanks. That's it.

>> And we we I mean, we love the offer. We

have a beater car. We would >> No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't love the offer. You You spent the whole first half of the call telling me you didn't love the offer.

You would like a new car, but the but the cost is too high on this one. >> Yes.

So, >> you know, you know what's inside that Trojan horse. And so, [laughter] you just got to keep it at bay. >> Yeah. >> Don't let the Trojan horse in.

>> So, even though you do need a car, then you just go, "Hey, I'm, you know, we're we got other plans and, you know, uh, we

appreciate it. Thank you. Not going to work right now. >> And I don't have to go into a long explanation.

>> And the more you feel tempted to explain

yourself, the more you're going to cause issues that are not helpful.

>> Mhm.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, this is it's definitely helpful know the whole sentence. Um Yeah, and we're driving a beater. We're on we went through Y's course at our church and it's been very helpful. Yeah, I'm I'm working a plan.

I've got a plan out. I'm going to get me a car and and I know you noticed our old car, but hey, thank you. I appreciate your offer. That's very kind of you. But we're we've got it figured out and you guys give find somebody that needs that car over there on that end of the world that's find a single mom and help her out with it. Dad, thank you. Thanks for the offer, though.

>> End. Well, what about what about No, Dad. Dad, I just told you we're not we're not going to do it. Okay. And it's just, you know, we don't have to be mean, but just real low volume, slow

sentences and short, concise conversations.

And all of that's very helpful to bring this to a close. And it may it may take two or three times because this guy, these people are not used to hearing no.

>> Yeah. >> No one tells them no.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And so, but I'm telling you, you're going to feel so much better when you get off that text or off that phone and your wife is going to look at you with a beautiful smile and go, "I married a man. Look at that.

>> Look at the backbone on that guy.

[laughter] >> It really is. I mean, that's what's going to happen." So, and if you continue to struggle with it, I always recommend Dr. Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries. I've sold I think he's sold 20 million, and I told him the other day, I think I sold two million of them.

So, uh, for him cuz I just love that book. I love him. He's a good friend, but also they love the book. And so, uh, because it's most every family struggles with some kind of boundary violating

person at some time. Sometimes they grow

out of it or sometimes they finally get the message or whatever. But you just have to go. And there's a universal rule. People who violate boundaries don't like you setting them. M that's

when they throw the fists up and go it's time for >> always 100% of the time expect push back

cuz their goal is to get through the fence, knock the fence down, act like the fence is not there and then you put the fence up and and it pisses them off.

Wait, there's a fence. I don't like fences. And so 100% of people who don't

like boundaries don't like you setting boundaries. So when you do and and and you you know, you just go, "Yeah, but look, there's a fence." >> I just had Jefferson Fischer on my show this this morning and he was talking about this of if you start to sort of ramble and and talk more and more and more, it just gives them more ammo. It gives them more leverage. And so he said, >> puts oxygen in the fire. Yeah. He gives the same advice. >> Firm short sentences.

>> He's smarter about that stuff than I am.

So he's very taxful. >> I might have actually stolen it from him. He's a lot nicer than I am.

>> That's true. >> For sure. He's a general Mr. Rogers compared to me. But yeah, >> but I'm just like, "No, piss off." You [laughter] know, >> that works, too, though. In Dave's defense, that is a strategy that can work. >> It does work. [laughter] It's just a little more brutal.

All right. Sam's in Bend, Oregon. Hey, Sam. What's up, man?

>> Hey, guys. I'm a big fan. I've been working your guys' plan for several years. I absolutely follow everyone everywhere I can. >> Well, thank you. Awesome.

I'm uh I'm going to try and keep it short and sweet and not get too emotional. Um I'm at the tail end of a divorce >> where I'll be able to um have access to

funds and properly pay for debts and everything. And I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to go about that with um some of the lump sums that I'm going to be receiving uh when the divorce is finalized. Wow.

>> How long are you married?

Um, last Friday was our anniversary and

it was uh we're still legally married but um 16 years.

>> I'm sorry. How many kids you got?

>> Three boys. >> How old are they?

>> Uh 15, 10, and eight.

>> Okay. All right. Well, rule number one,

take care of them and your broken heart.

>> Oh, we are. We are. >> That's rule number one. That's the most important thing in this. and and then and then so pretty soon you'll be able to laugh about this. I talked to a lady the other day that got divorced. She said, "You know, I got out of debt. I divorced him." [laughter]

So there's good there's good that can come of all this. This much manure, you can grow something, right? So Oh, I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing to go through. All right. And so I I'm still going to take the I'm going to take make sure the household is taken care of.

>> Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. And then lump sums, if

they're in uh retirement accounts and need to stay in retirement accounts, I'm just going to do rollovers. Uh and other lump sums, we're going to walk the baby steps. You got debt you're going to get out of this?

>> Well, so I was that was my kind of on

the fence part with the retirement is I'm still young. I'm 38, so I have time.

I have a full-time job. >> I would not cash out the retirement. No, I would not pay the penalties. You'll pay penalties on it.

[music] And and I wouldn't do that. So, same as same as if you weren't getting a divorce. >> So, if any liquid cash, just apply that to your next smallest debt, make minimum payments on the rest, and just debt snowball it.

[music]

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[music]

Well, we wish every call could get through on this show, but I'm afraid right now the lines are jammed and um as soon as one of those people are gone, there'll be four more. And um we hope you can get through. The phone number if you want to get in the lottery is 888255225.

But if you can't, I've got something that might actually even be better. It's called Ask Ramsay. It's our free AI tool

that's built and trained only on Ramsey

Answers. So, you'll get an answer the same way we would answer it right here on the show. Uh, you can ask your question today for free at ramseyolutions.com.

Click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. And in case you didn't know, and I didn't because I'm a boomer, how AI works.

Yeah, I did know that AI is artificial.

It's not real. That's a good start.

Artificial intelligence. So it doesn't manifest its own intelligence. It only can speak from the database that has been fed to it.

And so that's the problem for instance with uh Google using AI to answer your questions because they're so stupid that they're using Reddit as part of their database to answer the question. And Reddit, if you look it up on in the Greek means not true. So um people's

opinion, it's like the Tik Tok in written form, you know, it's stupid stuff. But that's being entered in. So we don't have any stupid stuff in our Ask Ramsey AI because the only thing we put in there was three years of this show answer all the Ramsey personalities answering your questions and all the books we've written and all the articles that we've written. And so they're all our opinion.

How to work our system, how to work the baby steps. That's the only data that's in there. So that's the only possible answer that's going to come out.

I am. It's it's about at George level of snark. Not quite at that level.

>> It's not yelling at you quite yet.

>> It's just snarky. It's kind of funny.

Snarky like George, not me snarky like me yet. >> It is conversational though and you can have a conversation with it. So there's a back and forth which is great and you can enter your own information. It'll get >> I'm really I'm really proud of our tech team. I mean it's it's stinking good.

>> Feedback's been amazing. >> 100% free. Ask Ramsey at Ramseyolutions.com. You can get the answer as if you called in on the show.

Ash is with us in New York City. Hi Ash.

How are you?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, um I'm 26 and I make about

$100,000 a year. Uhund $100,000 a year

in my salary. And I had an education

loan worth $65,000.

My mom originally promised that she would pay for my education. So, I went through school expecting that support.

But now I'm left with the student debt and she hasn't followed through yet. Uh I'm I'm sort of struggling with how to handle both the financial side and the emotional side of it. I want to move forward responsibly, but I also feel hurt and honestly misled. So, what would

you do in my situation? Do you have any advice for me? M

well I mean if you sat [snorts] down with her over a cup of coffee and said um I feel hurt and misled. What would she say?

>> She gets really emotional and then she says oh I did so much for you and you

know this small thing is bothering you.

You make so much money. Uh I don't think a $1,000 installment should hurt you that much. And it's we just usually end

up getting in an argument and then I >> Okay, so this is this is settled then.

This is settled. She's not going to pay it and she doesn't care if it hurts your feelings.

>> That's the fact.

>> No, that that's the fact.

>> Mhm. >> Those are facts. Those are data points.

She doesn't care if it hurts your

feelings. She's not going to pay it. Now

then you've got to decide what you're going to do. Okay? I'm not going to give

her access to my feelings anymore.

So I'm not going to talk about it with her ever again.

She's not going to pay it. You are.

>> Okay. >> Now the next step's easy. [laughter] Let's attack this debt with our great $100,000 income. How fast could you pay it off on your own?

>> Well, so I've got about $20,000 in savings. I've got $20,000 invested.

>> Good. >> Um I live in New York. So I mean my

monthly expenditure is about $4,000.

>> Yeah. Great. >> Um >> so you pay off the 40 and you got 60 to go and you just lean in and knock it out. And you know that your mom is your

mom. So, we can't be too mad at her, but we can be mad enough at her to go she's not reliable. And if she promises me something ever again, I'm going to laugh and wink and not believe it

because she doesn't care if it hurts

your feelings.

>> Right. And then I had this conversation that if if she wanted me to pay it off and she said, "Just send me just pay it off for for this year. me $10,000 and

then you won't have to worry about it from like Jan 2027. So now I

>> she's not going to pay it out.

>> You're wishing for something that's not going to happen. Okay? Dogs can't climb

trees.

She's a dog. She ain't going to climb a tree, dude.

Squirrels climb trees. Okay? She can't climb a tree. She's not going to do it.

and and every every answer she gives you is telling you she's not going to do it and that it's on you. And so the pastor you just go, you know, I I I I hate that

my that I have to say this about my mother, but she's an unreliable person

and is not concerned about the fact that

she lied to me. And that just breaks my

heart and I have a bill to pay now. And you go pay it as fast as you can, Ash.

and the sooner you get it paid off a and then please don't ever believe anything else she says. So any plan she comes to

you with is false.

>> The plan should have a check attached to it for $65,000 if I'm going to believe her ever again. >> Yeah. >> And it can't bounce. So that's the only way you go, okay, we're going to rebuild trust here. >> Yeah. But she's not going to do it. I mean, there's no chance. She probably doesn't have it either, by the way. It was probably wishful thinking and it sounded like a nice thing to say that I'll cover your education when you know >> I believe in you Ash. I got your back.

Yeah. Um but yeah, I mean this happens a lot. We hear this way too often of

parents that don't want to follow through on the promise of what they were going to do with their kids' education costs. And um so it's yet one more

reason for those of you out there that are considering taking out a student loan based on the promise of a parent uh to pay it. Uh that would be a dumb idea.

Um it puts a strain on the relationship even if they do follow through and pay it. Chris is in Fort Collins, Colorado.

Hi Chris, how are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. Um my question to

you is uh I lent my mom and dad $40,000

20 years ago. They put my name on their

house via a quick claim in 2012

and they and I haven't lived in their house for 40 years. Well, they both passed. They have a will that says to

pay me $75,000 off the top and split the

rest between myself and my three other siblings. What kind of a tax mess am I in?

Are you the only one on the deed or were they on the deed with you after they quit claimed you?

>> They were on the deed with me after they quit claimed.

[sighs] >> Okay. So,

you're you're going to need professional tax advice, but I'll take a stab at it.

Okay. >> Okay. Here's what would happen if they had taken themselves off completely and it was just you.

When you sell the house, you're going to be taxed on every dollar above what they

paid for the house, >> which was nothing probably.

>> Yeah, it was you paid $13,000 and now

the house is worth $500,000.

>> Yeah. So you'd have t you'd have capital gains tax on $500,000 if the house was

in your name.

>> Mhm. >> So you may have tax on half of that

since the house is in their name and your name. You probably do. You probably have tax on that. And so [music] what I would do is require that that tax be paid before and my 75,000 be repaid

before we divvy up any proceeds.

And so you need to get tax advice, figure out what your tax bill is going to be, and I would add that and make the estate pay that because you got screwed.

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Recapping George. Um,

lesson for the day for some of you out there. Do not gift capital assets like stocks

or real estate to your children while

you're alive, except in rare circumstances. Here's

why. Okay, our last caller, Chris, mom

and dad quit claimed the the house over

to thinking they were doing her a favor.

They were trying to do something nice and they were ignorant of tax law. So here's how tax law works. If Chris if again in Chris's situation both names were on it so it doesn't there but if it was just her name. So if you gift if mom and dad gifted that property to her

basis for calculating capital gains is

their basis what they paid for it >> which was $13,000 in this case.

>> And the house sold for $513,000.

Then they got a half a million dollars that's taxable. >> That's a gain in the IRS's eyes.

>> Yeah. It's going to be a 15% gain or cap capital gains tax. Okay.

>> 75 grand. >> So it's a $75,000 error in that case.

The reason it's an error is if her name was not on the deed and they give it to

her by will after they die, her basis is

the market value of the house at the

time they die. So her basis would be

513,000 and she sells it within 6 months of death. It's presumed to have been market value and it's presumed that there is zero tax which just saved her 75 grand

by doing it that way. >> It's called a stepped up basis. So the

basis goes to market value if willed to

you. So, if grandpa has stock and he's

got $2 million worth of Exxon stock, but he paid $10 for it and he gives it to

his grandchild before dying, they have capital gains on

$2 million. >> He just passed the hot potato right over. >> If he waits until he dies 10 seconds after he's dead, that stock basis for

resale is the market value at the time,

$2 million. Junior could sell every bit of it and have zero tax. This is huge,

y'all. Quit doing crap like this without

seeking tax advice and knowing what you're doing. And it's like, well, I don't want the government to get You just made sure the government's going to get it, dumb butt. It's exactly what you did. And you can't just practice law and

tax law out of your ear and think you're

going to get anything except screwed up.

So just make a one phone call to a

simple to a to a Ramsey tax Ramsey trusted tax person and they'll tell you don't transfer this period. Now again,

there there might be a situation where you can use some of your gift tax

exemption or you can use some of your estate tax exemption and qualify it uh under unified estate tax credit and you have to fill out some forms and you can make the move a and not get into the taxes, but you still could set up a problem with income tax on the other

end. And so you really need to think this stuff through. It's not as simple as, well, I need to protect little Chris. She gave us that $40,000 and her brothers and sisters ain't right.

So, I'm going to put the house in her name, make sure it's okay. Boom. Without checking. That's exactly what those sweet people did.

And they screwed this up royally and they meant well. I'll guarantee you they're not bad people. They didn't go, "Hey, let's screw Chris over." That wasn't what they meant to do.

>> Yeah. Just don't be doing this stuff,

people. All right. James is with us.

James is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi, James. How are you?

>> I'm good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, man. Um, you know, I'm really interested in um how can I regain control of my finances? Um, I just graduated college. Um, you know, I have a good job, but I feel like I'm in control. >> Cool. What's the good job? What are you making?

>> Um, 73 uh base salary and then uh with

bonus and everything, I'll be should be around 80. >> Good for you. Cool. Are you married?

>> I am. Well, fiance. Um, and then I have

a son with my previous relationship and then we have two kids, my fiance and I. >> Oh, when you getting married?

>> Um, you know, whenever she wants to. We haven't set a date yet.

>> Saturday works for me.

>> Dave is free. >> I'll send you the invite. >> Okay. And the um All right. So, what

does she make?

>> So, she she stays at home. That is the uh that is what's best for us.

>> Yeah, Saturday works for me. All right.

And uh she's in extreme risk right now.

I don't like the position she's in. As her friend, I'm telling her to marry you now.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Anyway, now we got that behind us.

So, you got how much debt with your $80,000 job and three kids and fiance

getting ready to be wife?

>> So, my student loans that is the largest um 44,000. Um, I've had I've used that to supplement income all throughout uh my time at school. My car made a dumb uh

purchase uh when my son was born. I'm not I still owe about 20,000 on there.

Um and then my credit cards around 12 and then she has around 12 as well. Um

12 12,000 on credit cards as well.

>> Gotcha. Okay. 44. You got 88,000. You

make 80. It's going to take you um 2 and 1/2 years of living on beans and rice, rice and beans. and you can pay all this off.

>> Okay? >> And that's if nobody adds any income to the equation. And you ought to try to talk about somebody adding some income to this equation if you can. Um, so and

I am I'm not being just smart elic only.

Uh there's all kinds of data points that says being married is going to cause you to succeed financially.

And so I want I want good things for y'all. I love y'all. I want you to win.

Okay. So then we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're going to cut up the credit cards tonight.

We're going to get on an every dollar budget tonight. We'll George and I will give you a premium version and let you get started. The two of you sit down together. Uh and since you're going to be married on Saturday, you can go ahead and start doing it tonight like you were married. And um you sit down with everything and you're looking at it together and saying, "Okay, we have the this baby and I've got these kids and we've got this stuff we've got to take care of and um you know, and we got a

house and we got to get, you know, we're going to plow through these credit cards, get rid of them. Then we're going to knock that car out and then we're going to knock that student loan out." Meanwhile, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one. Everything but the little one. Attack the little one. Everything but the little one. And attack the little one with a vengeance.

You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job. And don't talk to me about a vacation. You are seriously broke. Broke people don't go on vacation. And get this mess cleaned up in the next two years. And if you get you get kind of you kind of hear that anger in my voice like, "Ah, right. The coach at halftime." >> Mhm. >> That's what I want inside of y'all.

Okay? I'm trying to transfer that to you. and you get that that that swagger going and you start punching these credit cards out, knocking them in the nose, going, "You people are screwing my family's future. I hate you, City Bank.

I hate you, Fifth Third. Get out of my life." Then then when you kind of get that idea going, then then you you have a villain in the story and you are the hero. You get to go win and it changes everything. And that's that's what I want him to do, George. >> Yeah. What What is your intensity level right now, James? One out of 10, would you say, to get out of this debt?

20. You know, last week I sat down and I spent hours on an Excel chart because I hate where budgeting apps charge you a subscription fee. I think that's one of the biggest scams in [laughter] this industry right now, man. It's it's mind-blowing.

You know, you get on the app store, look up budgeting, inapp purchases, inapp purchases. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. We don't have any inapp purchases, but we do charge you a subscription fee after we give you this free portion.

So, we'll give it to you for free for a while, so you don't have to worry about it.

>> Okay. >> I I I won't I won't hold back on that, but we have to pay. We have to pay the guys that build the app and run the thing. So, >> if it gets you at 88 grand in debt, I'd say it was worth the purchase.

But if you don't do anything with it, I agree. It was a waste of your money. So, I hope it helps you. But I just wanted to see how intense you were and even think about selling this car if it's worth more than 20 grand.

Get out of that payment. >> I think you're going to do it. I'm proud of you, man. Go do it.

You're going to have a great life. You graduate. You got babies. You got a new wife.

Life's going to be great, man. >> But for now, you got to keep living like a broke college kid, which is going to be not as fun. I got a new salary. I'm a big I got to go buy some things.

You got to pay off some debt. You'll get there. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, why do people pay to join a gym if they can

lift >> It's a scam. >> If they can lift weights at home, [snorts] >> h the environment >> because they don't lift weights at home.

That's why. >> And there's some skin in the game. If I paid for something, >> all you do is stub your toe on them.

That's all they're for. Stub your toe.

>> I want to see a study. If it was a free gym membership versus a paid gym membership, who's showing up at each gym? >> I'd be interested to see.

>> Inquiring minds want to know.

[music]

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. George Camel, Ramsay personality,

number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Janessa is with us in

Salt Lake City. Hi, Janessa. How are you? >> I am so good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, wonderful. Um, so me and my husband,

we are struggling with a decision to make. We have decided to kind of get our

butts in gear on our student loans,

>> but in the past year, we have promised our girls season passes to a local amusement park.

>> And we are trying to decide if we break our promise to our young kids and try to teach them a financial lesson or we

delay paying off our debt about two to

three weeks and keep our promise.

[snorts]

Okay. Um well, if you take sometimes if you take an ethics thing uh to an extreme, it'll give you the answer. Okay. So, you have

information that is available to you today that was not available to you today or at least your viewpoint on the student loans was not the same when you made the promise.

Things have changed.

>> Yes. So, if we took it to an extreme and said, "Hey, mom's got cancer

and so we're not going to get the theme park things this year because we're going to pay the doctor bills." That's that's not that didn't happen. And I'm not speaking that into existence. Okay.

But if it was something like that, you wouldn't have an ethics problem because it's new information.

>> Correct. Yes. And so I think the, you

know, I I would sit down with them and say, "Kids, at the time we were trying to ignore these." How old are the kids?

[snorts] >> Um, we've got a six-year-old, sevenyear-old, 9year-old, and a 10-year-old. >> Okay. Well, they're not going to remember whatever it is much past Friday anyway. But, um, but but you know what I

would do is say at the time we sat down and talked about this, we thought we were able to do it. And now we've looked at our the details of our debt. And I know you don't understand that necessarily, but we are we're not in trouble. We're not going to be hungry.

We're not going to lose our home, but we do have to clean up this debt. And we're going to have to get serious about it. And that means this year we're not going to be able to do the season passes unless we come up with some other way to pay for them. And you might create some How expensive are they?

>> Um, all in all, it'd be about $1,300.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> All together. >> And it it might be that if we come up with some kind of fun kid/parent participation adventure that is the u

the GoFundMe of lemonade stands or something and um you know teach them a way. We got to go find this money if we're going to do this kids. And so we're going to have an adventure by doing these three things and we're going to cut grass or we're going to rake leaves or we're going to do this together and come up with a 1300 that that way because we can't just go buy it after what we've discovered about our debts and we've got to pay it. And so that's a third option.

One option is buy it when you can't afford it.

New information. Third option is, is there some kind of an adventure that we can turn this into that says, okay, the

way, you know, what do we do when we're broke? We we go to work. Let's find something. Let's find something. Let's all get in here. And if y'all want to do that, we'll be able to do it. If you don't want to do that, that's okay. Uh it'll just be next year at least because we've got to get this student loans knocked out.

>> Okay? >> When I was 11, my parents sold our boat because they had a bad year in the real estate business.

And you remember it. >> I'm still in counseling, [laughter] >> but now Dave has multiple boats, so he's recovered. >> I have I have recovered. I have lots of boats now. [laughter] >> His boat has its own boat. It's very impressive. So, yeah, this is a It's just delaying it. It's not a no. It's not crushing their dreams. It's just a not now. And so, when are you going to be debtree?

>> Um, in a year. >> Okay, great. >> Will the theme park still be there in a year? I I sure hope so. >> Yeah. >> Can we do something that's an alternative that maybe is free or super low cost that also is fun?

>> Um, that's what we've been talking about. Yeah. Our local pool has a swim

pass for the summer we were thinking of doing instead. >> There you go. There you go. That's a good idea. >> So, there's still something fun for them to look forward to and their other things just delayed by a little bit. I like this plan. >> Yeah. Our neighbors had a boat. That's what we did. >> Find find a friend with a boat. [laughter] You just saved yourself a lot of emotional hassle and finances and pickups. Find someone else that has it and use theirs. Yeah, [laughter] >> that's what I do. I borrow Dave's boats.

>> Yeah, >> I wouldn't know how to drive it. Sadly, I'd crash. >> You're not getting near my boat. >> I barely could drive your little seed. Do I almost crash that thing, so >> I know >> I haven't been on it since. >> It's scary. It was a really scary day for me. Uh I'm in counseling for that, too. But yeah, uh I I think the thing is

um I it's a bigger deal

to you. This is grandpa talking, okay?

Eight grandkids. It's a bigger deal to you than it is to them.

This breaking your promise thing. And it's not like it's not like you have a pattern throughout their lives of setting them up and then disappointing them. Setting them up and then disappointing them. You're not that person or you wouldn't even be asking this question if you were that person.

So they're fine. they're going to be okay. Uh, find an adventure to get them paid for. Buy the pool passes instead.

One year from now, you'll be able to do it. And you can all talk about the time that we took a year off and got ourselves cleaned up as a family. And that's when we changed our family tree.

And then when you're celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary, your kid can stand up and give a toast because of the character he witnessed when he was 11 that his parents delayed pleasure to change the family tree. That's a a great lesson learned and some character built there as well. >> That's it. That that's what's really going to happen. Not they're going to be so disillusioned that they need counseling. >> I would love for them to be in therapy going, "Yeah, what happened?" Well, I got a pass at 7 instead of six.

[laughter] That really crushed me, man.

I just don't see >> Never never recovered. Never came back from that one. [laughter] Blake's in Washington, DC. Hey, Blake.

How can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Uh yeah. So I just had a quick question about I'll try to keep this short like it will but I am just wondering I'm still planning out my education my career path. I just graduate graduated with my undergrad. >> Oh cool. What's your degree in?

>> Public public health. >> Awesome. Public health. All right. >> Okay. Good.

>> Yeah. and I want to go to aiology school

and that would be a three-year program

and I do have some student loan debt from my public health degree. I graduated in three years as well and so now I'm just working and and applying for aiology school. Uh but because of

you know I I feel like uh current times have changed and I feel like there's some things that I also need to change with my plan. So, I was just um actually

thinking of holding back aiology for like 2 or 3 years until I work and then I can save up that money, pay off some of my debt and then, you know, save up cash flow as well. >> Nothing wrong with that.

>> Try to Yeah, cuz it's going to be all on my own money. But my uh family does they

do want me to go straight into aiology school starting next year. I'm just a little bit scared because I feel like that >> Well, they're not paying for it, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] >> Well, they don't get a vote.

>> Um, >> you only get a vote if you're paying for it.

>> Yeah, [music] I I definitely understand.

>> You can have an opinion, but you don't get a vote. And the opinion is is that it's no big deal for you to go deeply in debt. No big deal to them.

>> So, I wouldn't let them pressure me unless they're writing the check along with it. >> I I I think they mean well, but they don't see this as big a problem as you do, or you wouldn't even be calling here. So, I like your plan better, Blake.

>> [music]

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[music]

Noah is in Hawaii. Hi Noah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. Thanks for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So I am in a bit of a kuffle. Um I have

moved home to uh try to help my dad with

his business. Uh we're in construction.

Um, and we are digging into the finances.

Um, I've been listening to the show for a long time. I am currently trying to get myself out of debt. I'm 4 grand away. Um, but have come to find out that

Father at 61 has saved nothing for retirement.

Um, it is met every time with I'll

figure it out or it's not your problem.

But Dave, I feel like it is my problem.

You know, he's my dad and I've got to take care of him at some point. Well, that's sweet, but it's not your problem.

>> He's right. >> Really? >> Yeah. Really? >> Okay. >> You're $4,000 in debt. You're broke. You came home to try to help him with his business.

That's your problem.

And uh you keep that running. He, you know, he he's a grown 61-y old man. He should take care of it.

>> I mean, he's not he's not mentally disabled.

>> You're right about that. Yeah. So, it's not your problem. I mean, if he if he was, you know, if he had a brain injury or something, maybe you'd want to go, okay, I need to help my dad, right? But all he is is bullheaded.

>> Fair enough. >> Did you ask him why he hasn't put a scent away for 40 years?

>> Um, I I think the conversation scares him. I don't think he knows what what to do about it. And I think it's gotten to a point where avoidance is the only technique. >> I think you can end up helping him. And I'll give you an idea. But first thing I want you to do is release this emotional burden of having to carry your dad.

Okay? But the way you help him is this.

You finish turning this business around, getting yourself out of debt, and then the more you get involved in the running of the business, set up a 401k at the business and sign him up for it.

>> Okay. >> I mean, he's probably going to work another 10 years, isn't he?

>> Uh, I'm hoping he's able to. Um it's

it's >> how many people how many people on your construction team?

>> Uh so right now we've just come down to three. So it's him, myself, and an accounts manager. Then everything else for the most part we subcontract out.

>> Okay. So he's not physically straining.

>> So >> you know, um the the the issue with with

his kind of thing here is that he's he's kind of avoiding technology and you've got a bunch of other companies coming in and kind of taking over. See, you can fix that too is to the extent you take over the running of the business.

>> If you guys keep running the business and you continue to insert yourself in the operations of the business and you help with the technology and you help grow the business and you help keep it alive and and you know, if you can't do that, then y'all need to shut the thing down and you need to go both get go get a job, right?

>> Awesome. >> And you know, it's almost almost against his will, but you tell him, you go, "Hey, I just set up a 401k. I'm going to be putting my money in or putting our money into me and our money into you, and I need you to sign this right here. Shut up.

Sometimes you got to sneak the vegetables in for their own good.

>> Eat your broccoli. Yeah.

>> Does he have any money saved? Is he like a tin can guy? Like does he have anything or is he really just can't live on less than he makes?

>> Well, so the company does well enough to where when he needs money, he just draws it out. >> Yeah. >> Um and so he has got nothing saved. I believe from what the digging that I've been doing, he's got about eight grand in debt, which is nice. That's not much.

And he makes enough to pay it. Um but yeah. No, nothing in savings. No emergency savings, >> no other assets.

>> Yeah. So, part of your uh business job

to grow this business is to take the the inner workings of the business and make them more sophisticated. You knew that already and you were the one told us that. And as you're doing that, you get

your debts paid off, his debts paid off.

You get you start in instituting some financial systems as part of it. And one of those financial systems is [snorts] what's called a simple 401k. It's a 401k

uh or simple IRA. It's a 401k for businesses, for small businesses your size. And um and and you know, it's real

easy to set up, very inexpensive to set up except for the money that you stick into it. And so then you guys when you go make some money, you don't have any debt payments. You've got some savings in the business called retained earnings. That's part of your systems.

You're building your technology base.

you're competing, you're even getting ahead of the competition out there and the way you're doing the jobs and in the

process your profits go up and you start chunking a bunch of them into the retirement. That's how you take care of him is almost against his will. But I

don't want you feeling like you failed as a son if a fullbodied full-brained

61-year-old didn't take care of themselves.

That's not your a failure on your part.

You have done nothing wrong. I'm not going to guilt trip you for I don't and I don't want you to guilt trip yourself.

>> You can't and shouldn't fund his lifestyle for the rest of his life once he's done working. Yeah, >> that's a bad plan. >> By 61 or so, somewhere in there you should grow up somewhere in there. I'm

trying still, but I'm still still trying, but I'm getting there.

>> All right, Ricky. Ricky is with us.

Ricky's in Orange County. Hi, Ricky. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. How you doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. Um I'll I'll just paint a picture as to what the situation is. So um I'm

in California so I'm considered in under their world of high net worth uh based on my income. I have about 5 million in

equities two [clears throat] little over 2 million in 401k on top of that. So so

we're looking about seven um income

around 600 a year. >> Good for you. >> Now my question to you my question to you is this.

It's [snorts] bothering me that based on discussing with my CPA that the house that I live in uh I guess around 6,000T

house I bought it for 2.5 mil maybe it's

worth 4344 today. Uh the mortgage is

about 1.1. Um and I know I've been

listening to you a long time but I I I feel I want to continue to keep the mortgage because the it's it's free money. It's at 2.2 two 2.3% fixed but

that's a separate issues but the bottom reason why I'm asking is question is I have a lot of equity sitting there roughly around 3 million and I could be

uh given the fact of my my income is not

allowing me to write off any of the $30,000 a year in taxes for property

taxes I have zero write off on that they won't allow me to write off any of the interest so I'm thinking like based on my return that I'm on my equities, whether it's the 401k or the other 5 million. Um I'm averaging, you know, maybe 12% a year. Um in in in good

indexes and um and the amount of money I

could be making 250 300,000 a year on that equity, I'm better off maybe renting given I'm uh given my I'm not

getting any benefit of the right off of being a homeowner. And I don't think in this country necessarily it's a benefit to be a homeowner if if you're if you're

not getting the ability to >> your analysis the problem is your analysis is based on a moment in time rather than projecting into the future.

And so your analysis is flawed.

>> Okay. >> And so so I'm calling bull crap on your statement that in America today it's not a good idea to own a house. That's just bull crap. So because you're looking at this particular moment in time, you forgot the fact that this house has gone up several million dollars while you owned it. You seem to leave that out of the equation.

>> But true, but then again, if I were to put, you know, uh I based on the money >> California real estate has done better than mutual funds,

>> ROI, return on investment, >> right? Of course. >> Period. Okay. It's done better. it.

Yeah, you can't write off the taxes.

Welcome to your socialistic state. But that's, you know, that's the problem that you got where you chose to live.

But the the issue is that re California

real estate remains an excellent investment.

And and so no, I no renting and, you

know, putting all your equity in an S&P does not outperform owning real estate.

[music] I own a whole bunch of both. I believe in both. Uh, and all the people that we know that have 10 to $60 million

net worth that we coach, [music] my net worth several hundred million, uh, own a good mixture of real estate and mutual funds and they've owned their own home paid for for [music] decades. They haven't overanalyzed this.

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> So, George, the uh Ramsey Show live

recordings that we've done in all these different cities, Charlotte and Denver, they're a big hit. >> Oh, yeah. We had a blast doing them in April and we finally released the very first one. Charlotte dropped last week.

Denver episode releases later this week.

We got Phoenix and Anaheim coming in the next few weeks. And uh I was on that one with Rachel and Ken. We had 300 people filled with live questions. So you actually get to see the person asking the question.

And even better, we bring the spouse or boyfriend up. And >> does that make you meaner or nicer? You have to be nicer. >> You have to be a little nicer.

You can kind of poke a little more as which is fun and be a little snarkier with the live audience because they can tell it's for entertainment purposes and you kind of get the crowd on your side or against you. And so that kind of adds a whole another element to it. So my favorite was, "How much should my boyfriend spend on an engagement ring?" And you know, Rachel and he's there.

>> That's a good one. >> So if you want to go watch it, it's live on our Ramsay Show YouTube channel, Spotify, Ramsey Network app, go check it out. It's like nothing you've seen before on this show with a live audience like that. >> That's fun.

Very fun. So yeah, we got four cities. Denver, Charlotte's already up. Denver will be up this week and then you'll see Phoenix and Anaheim come on in the next few weeks.

You don't want to miss these. Every one of the Ramsey personalities had a blast being out there with you folks. So, uh, thank you all for showing up.

John is in Nashville. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. Um,

I am 23 and I am debtree. Um, I when I first

graduated, I took out a truck loan and all that and I I got it all figured out.

Um, so right now I have no debt. I got about 35,000 saved up and uh trying to

figure out what I should do next. >> Wow, that's impressive. Good job. What do you make?

>> Um, I make about 60,000 a year. Um, and

I work for family business and that's part of my issue is uh is coming up with that. >> What's the issue? >> So, at first at first it was me, mom and dad in the restaurant every day and uh everything was going great and it seemed like uh more of the responsibilities were getting pushed my way. And now it's me in there every day and mom and dad don't really work anymore.

and he he gave me a business card that said, "I'm owner operator, but I'm making about 20 bucks an hour." And uh my mom, you know, I don't I don't want them to work all the time, but you know, mom's working no days a week and dad will work, you know, one day a week and >> they own it. >> That's they own it, right?

>> So, it's a formality that it's you're not an owner operator, >> right? >> You're an employee. I have business cards that say I am >> that's of no value whatsoever. Okay.

Well, I mean, could you get a job at another restaurant if you were the general manager of another restaurant and you were responsible for the operations? What would you make?

>> Um, well, I'm not exactly sure.

I I applied for BIES in Murphusboro. I

applied to be the assistant manager up there and it does pretty good.

>> Um, >> what does that pay? But I hadn't I don't It pays 33 plus uh benefits and retirement. >> Mhm. >> See, right now I'm a 109. See, here's my issue. So, he kicked me out of the house. Understandable. I'm 23. You know, it's about time. >> Mhm. >> And so, I came and got an apartment and

started looking at one day getting my own home. And I'm a 1099 employee.

>> No, you're not. >> And uh >> you're not supposed to be. >> Oh, I'm not. >> Yeah. that y'all y'all are screwing that up. You're going to make a mess. You You're not an employee. I mean, you're not a 1099. 1099 is an independent subcontractor. You're an employee.

They're going to they're going to get their butt fined by the IRS big time.

You're you guys are going to end up with tax penalties and all kinds of stuff.

You need you need your family needs to get some professional tax advice on how they do payroll.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. This is going to that's going to get ugly. It's going to end up with a mess.

But I think we got a bigger mess, and that is is that your parents walked off and handed you this thing, but they didn't really hand it to you. So, I think y'all are just going to sit down and go, "Okay, Dad, what's the plan? I'm going to I'm going to need to get with a tax person. I've gotten financial advice that says I'm going to get messed up on this 1099, and you're going to get messed up when we get audited.

You're not going to like it." So, we need to get that fixed.

Okay. >> And it's not an hour. It's not an hourly It's not an hourly rate.

>> Let's see. And And uh >> I'm sorry. I I hate to get keep interrupting you. What kind of revs is the restaurant producing?

>> Um we do about about 2,000 a day. So

that'd be 12,000 a week because we're close Sunday. So that's about 50,000 a month roughly. Now we got a food truck.

So sometimes those numbers can change.

Um but but just in the restaurant, that's what I do. They they'll do the food truck um when we do it. Now, this year they decided we're we're only going to do it about five times this year.

>> Is this their retirement plan? Like is all Are they basically getting paid from the business and don't have anything else?

>> I'm not sure if we got a plan.

>> That's my fear. >> It's really starting to bother me. >> Yeah. I think you need to sit down and say we've Okay, Dad. We need to formalize this. Bies is going to make me an offer at 33 plus benefits.

and properly pay me on a W2. And so, if

I'm going to stay in here and I'm going to do all the work, I'm going to need to be paid like a general manager because I'm g I'm your general manager. And that's going to be a base salary. Uh, that's the equivalent of $40 an hour for a 40-hour week, but you're probably going to put in more than 40 hours plus a percentage of profits as your bonus.

And then you need to close the books on the restaurant each month and tell what the profits are each month.

Well, see that that's part of my problem is I pay all the employees. I buy all the supplies. So, I I know I can do simple math. I know how much he's making. >> And too, >> it's a lot lot more than me, you know.

>> Yeah. >> And uh >> I mean, you are you are only 23, but you

are doing the job. And so, regardless of your age >> and your experience or whatever, if you're giving a job, you should be paid to do that job. I'm not asking you to be paid more than the job is worth, but if you weren't there, they would have to hire a general manager for a salary of 30, 40 bucks an hour average and some

kind of a bonus kick based on profits.

That's what you would get paid in that business. Agreed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And if you weren't there, that's what they got to do. So, if you take the job at BIES, that's what they're going to have to do. They're going to have to hire somebody, >> right?

And I'm I'm about at the point to where I'm I'm about to just start looking and applying just about anywhere cuz it's getting it's been a little overwhelming. >> I think you sit down, have a cup of coffee before you do that and say, "Mom and dad, I got a problem.

need to be paid for being the general manager and I'm going to close the books and we're going to get a base salary and a and a percentage of profits for being the general manager and we're going to develop a plan where I become the owner of this a little bit at a time overtime

and um meanwhile you guys are going to make a lot of money and you don't have to work as much. I'll take care of running the thing, but if you don't want to pay me to the proper amount to do the job that you've got, then I need to go work somewhere else and you need to get somebody in here that's going to enjoy doing this, >> which by the way, you can't get for $20 an hour, >> right?

Um, >> that's fair. I mean, you sit and have that conversation with them. And if they say, "Screw you. You're supposed to work for free," then go get a job somewhere else and let them figure it out.

They're not going to say that. >> That's what worries me. When I told him that, hey, I'm >> When I told him, hey, I'm looking for a new job. It's kind of like he got aggressive and >> he took it as a

>> Right. And I didn't want to I don't want to mess up my family situation. You know, >> you're not messing it up. They are.

>> Okay. >> All you're doing is talking about it.

>> And I wouldn't say I'm going to quit if you don't do this. But I would say, "Dad, if we can't work something out that's reasonable here, I'm going to be forced to do something different." And if he wants to get aggressive based on that, then go do something different.

Cuz you're going to get aggressive every time you have a conversation about this business >> and then you're going to build resentment. >> Can't have a conversation. >> Ruin the relationship anyways. >> Yeah. I mean, my son and I get in arguments. We run Ramsay together, but we don't get an argument every time we're together.

We're most of the time we don't have an argument, but occasionally we just like, no, we fuss and fight.

>> We fight like grown-ups. >> Yeah, we fight like grown-ups. We're arguing about an idea. [music] We're not personally offended like a four-year-old.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Dylan in New Mexico.

I'm aware of your recommendation to invest your money evenly in four funds, small cap, midcap, large cap, and international. I also hear you guys regularly reference the average annual return of the S&P over the last 30 to 50 years. Can you provide some insight into how his investment protocol has performed compared to the S&P? If mimicking S&P performance is the key metric, why wouldn't he recommend just parking your money in an S&P index fund?

>> That's a great question. He I assume meaning Dave per your recommendation for for many many years now.

>> All right. So inside how this investment's performed compared to the S&P. Well the small cap midcap large cap international there's not a a one fund that we can look at to compare to the S&P. But the S&P largely is a bunch of

you know midcap and large cap companies if you look at the makeup of that. So it's just not as diversified as what you're mentioning. >> Exactly. So here's the thing. individual mutual funds uh in the growth

mutual fund sector uh less than half of

them beat the S&P

and that was um the guy that started the

Vanguard S&P index fund Bogle uh John

Bogle was brilliant and he he discovered that and so he came up with this idea of

where you hear the phrase passive investing that's where it first came from where you don't have to worry about about it. You just buy the S&P. Screw it. Because half the mutual funds don't even beat it. >> And those people that do that are passive investors, sometimes called bogal heads. Uh because John was actually on to something. His actual data was correct and is correct. Um to

this day, half the growth stock mutual funds do not outperform the S&P. But that also means it's kind of like there's a 60% chance of rain, there's a 40% chance of sunshine. Hello. So I have

picked in the four categories four mutual funds that have outperformed

their indexes.

Now the small cap the index would be the Russell because a small cap is uh not

necessar it's more like a an aggressive growth stock mutual fund, right? A midcap would be like a growth that's more like a that's a typical growth mutual fund. Large cap typical growth stock mutual fund. you said the S&P is a mix of those two.

And then obviously international, a foreign fund, that's a different index. Okay. So, what I want to do is pick a fund that outperforms the no-brain way of doing it, the passive way of doing it. And so if I've got a mutual fund that for 35 years has outperformed the S&P and it's a growth stock mutual fund and I put that in my four.

I've got a SN I've got a small cap that's outperformed the Russell and I put that in my four and so on. Well, guess what?

So, my particular four mutual funds that

most of my stuff is in that that has outperformed the indexes has outperformed the S&P because I didn't

pick one of them that didn't. That's why. >> And the other piece of this that we're not factoring in is that that international fund, which we recommend 25%. If you look at the S&P 500 and it's down in a given year, the international fund usually is up.

>> Yeah. It pretty much runs the inverse.

And so even if in a given year if the index, you know, beat your mutual fund setup, you're not factoring in the long term of what could happen in the market, >> but it never has. I my my the four I picked has always outperformed the S&P every single year. >> So if the average in the S&P is 10 to 12, you might be seeing 13 14.

>> Yeah. I've not gotten 10 points more.

Not >> it's not 20%. >> And here's the thing. Let's go back on this too. It's very interesting. I mean, the way I'm doing it is actually mathematically beating it. So it does answer the guy's question. But the problem with this discussion is always that somebody's having this hypothetical

if I had done this thing. And and when

we actually have figured out that people who invest in slightly substandard mutual funds way

outperform those who never invest >> or those who jump out or those who are in single stocks, >> those who analyze everything to the point that they've got an anal problem with it, right? And it's like, you guys, would you shut up and invest

cuz 100% of the people that invest end

up with more money than those that don't every time. And that's the number you need to concentrate on. And so if >> it's not mutual funds versus index funds, >> if you actually do the index fund versus

the person that believes what we believe and doesn't do anything, I'm on your side. I'm glad I got you to invest in something because if you just put money away, you'll have some money. It's magical. And so like for instance, as we studied the m all the millionaires we studied, most of them were not super sophisticated investors. They c they didn't spend a lot of time analyzing like Dylan is what this is and what I should do and D. There's not a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo.

>> They weren't prodigies. They were people. Uh, I got a 401k at work and I'm gonna put some money in a gross stock mutual fund and now I'm a millionaire.

And that's exactly what they did. I mean, they really didn't they picked out their mutual fund based on what the guy in the cubicle next to them was doing.

They did not do some kind of sophisticated uh think tank analysis. But here's the

trick. They did put money in investments. They didn't sit around and talk about it and NOT DO IT. THAT'S the

problem. So, you know, the percentages all go out the window until you actually do it. >> Yeah. Whether it's 12 or 13% doesn't matter if you have no money in the market. >> So, all that to say, Dylan, I have four mutual funds that have outperformed the S&P for 30 years as a group. Not hard to

do. It's really not that tough to do.

You can have your Smart Investor Pro say, "Show me some mutual funds that have a 25-y year track record of outperforming the S&P." They can do it.

They're there. Not all of them, less than half, but they're there. Okay? And you can put that little portfolio together and if it does what it did in the past, it will outperform the S&P.

Mine half. But if you don't want to do that and you just want to put it in the S&P, you're going to end up with a lot of money. We'll all end up rich >> and we'll be happy for you. We're not mad at you.

But that's the answer to your overall question. >> What a great nerdy discussion. >> It is a fun. >> By the way, you actually cover how to pick mutual funds in our investing essentials virtual event.

We've got one coming up later this year.

But that's where if you want to nerd out like this, you're interested in this kind of conversation, you want to know how to build wealth the right way in depth, we'll walk you through it in that event. >> Yeah. And and but here's the thing. I I go the [sighs] we have talked more people into putting money in their 401k and Roth IAS than anybody in America because we got them out of debt so that they could do it and then they believed us and so they went and did it.

>> It's a margin issue and a little bit of education. >> And then there's some not Dylan but there's some, you know, on the internet going, "Well, Dave Ramsey's created more poor people." No, he didn't. He got people to invest while you're sitting with your thumb in your ear. >> You weren't listening very well if Dave Ramsey made you poor.

I mean, >> that's pretty wild. That's just But that's they said, you know, because he doesn't understand. He doesn't understand how. Yes, I do understand it, you idiot.

But what I'm better at than you are is getting people to actually invest instead of discussing freaking theory.

Theory doesn't matter until it's applied. You know, I really don't care

what you think about swinging a baseball bat until you swing one, honey. And then we'll talk about whether you can connect. That's how this works. You got a lot of theory going on out there. You got a lot of people that have an opinion out there, that have no stinking money.

It's all these life coaches that don't have a life. It's the same thing, you know. And so, guys, just invest. Even if

you do it wrong, you're doing it better than the who talks about it and never does it. >> It's like a bunch of out of shape people talking about workout routines and which one's better. It's like, yeah, great.

Let's go work out. How about that? >> Arnold Schwarzenegger has created more fat people. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. It's just that's just dumb.

Okay, seriously. But here's the trick.

If you invest, you're going to have some money. Oo.

>> And if you don't invest, >> you're not going to have any money. Take the money away. You're not going to have any money.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Joshua's in

Houston, Texas. Hey Joshua, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for having me on your show. I appreciate you taking the call.

>> Sure. How can I help? >> Let me uh let me give you kind of like a

brief backstory. I'm 31 years old. I

work as an HVAC technician. I make around $92,000 a year, but I still feel

like I'm drowning financially and living paycheck to paycheck. Over the last year, I spent $22,000 fighting custody

battle for my son, which I al ultimately lost and kind of wrecked me financially.

Right now, I have about $17,000 through

uh a loan, another 28,000 through an

affirm loan, and then I have some credit card debt, about $3,500, and then I owe

some family members around $7,500

because they help with my attorney fees.

Um, I have some student loan, but I'm in a forgiveness program with them. Uh, which

I have like zero dollar payments, but they're expected to be forgiven in about 30 years. I've also been in a debt settlement program for about a year now uh through National Debt Relief, and I pay them about $63 a month while they're

working to settle my debts. I pay

about 20 to 250 a month in rent, 650 in

child support, and they also may be increasing that soon. Uh, I pay $750 a

month in health insurance through work.

Uh, and I pay $520 a month for my truck,

which is about to be paid off in two months, thank God. Um, and other monthly

bills, obviously. But I feel like no matter how much I work, I can't get ahead. And I also want to buy a house soon, but I I feel stuck.

>> You're not buying a house soon. You're not buying a house anytime soon. You're broke. You You got a lot of cleanup do before you buy a house. So, let's just set that on the side.

>> And then I mean, okay.

>> And you're getting ready to have the truck paid off. So, that's going to free up a bunch of money. You do know where your money's going. It wouldn't take you long to build your every dollar budget because you've got most of the numbers in your head that are pretty clear.

And I still hear room in this. I still hear room in what you've got.

>> Um, but what you've done is you've been focusing on the heartache of a uh custody battle. And you've been

focusing every single dollar that you could towards that. And that's been a

valid distraction for a year. And now

that distraction has passed because you lost. And now you know where you stand and now you've got to turn around and focus back on cleaning up your mess. But you really weren't working on the mess before and so it was sitting there or getting bigger and now you can work on it. I think you're going to be okay.

Well, my question really truly is like

now, should I get out of the debt settlement program and pay the $63 that

I paid them and just pay them uh pay my

creditors directly.

>> Probably >> you can do what they're doing on your own without tanking your financial world because they told you to stop making payments, goes into collections, then they try to settle. I've already done Yeah, I've done that for about a I've been doing cuz I did it I've done it like twice now. I've gone through different programs, but I've been doing it for about two years.

>> Yeah. You keep looking for one of these programs to straighten you out and you got to straighten you out.

>> And that's kind of where it's like I've never really had any real instruction on

>> how to put money away while trying to

pay off those debt. You don't need to put money away. We need to clean up the debt. That's >> And then don't go into any more debt. >> Yeah. First thing is don't borrow more.

The second thing is we're going to get on a detailed written budget. We're going to give you every dollar. Our budgeting app once you sit down tonight and fill it all out. It's really not hard. >> I mean, >> I actually have that app. >> Okay.

We'll start using it tonight.

>> It's going to guide you through step by step exactly what to do and how to build

that out and then stick to it. and you

make enough to pay all these bills and extra on these bills and get rid of them. Particularly when you get your car paid off, that's going to free up another 500 bucks a month to be able to attack this stuff with. And then if you want to stay in the debt settlement thing until you get this moving, that's fine. If you want to step out of it, that's fine.

If you want to check with Guardian Litigation, they're a different type of program, but they do similar thing. They don't work the same way uh that we endorse. you could talk to them and see what they can do. But I think more than anything, you've got to take control of this and you've been focusing your energies emotionally, spiritually, financially on other things.

And that's valid because it was a kid and you need to take care of that kind of stuff first. But now, now we know where we stand. And now it's time to focus on the best dad you can be. And that is cleaning up your life and getting this mess cleaned up.

You got serious payments going around that place from everywhere. And no, we're not waiting 30 years. Pay off the stupid student loans. They're just the last thing we're going to get to. When you get to them, knock them out, too.

List your debts, smallest to largest.

Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance. So, hang on. I'll

send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book also, which shows you exactly how to do this stuff. and you can go you can read it to go with your every dollar app and you'll be fine and you call us back if you want more help but more than anything it's focus and being very intentional and I think you

can do it with the numbers you gave me.

You really do know what you're where you stand and that's pretty stinking cool.

All right, Junior is with us in Atlanta.

Hi, Junior. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Doing well. Doing well. So, a what what

the reason why I'm calling is because a couple of years ago, um we went through

Hurricane Helen.

And unfortunately with Hurricane Helen,

we had a a couple of things that ended up happening um with the de devastation

to our home and our property. Um things like, you know, our roof.

>> It's in Augusta. Augusta hit us hard.

>> Oh, okay. Oh man.

>> Yeah. Um, so in Augusta, we got hit

pretty hard with Hurricane Helen and and you know, our roof, our uh deck again, our fence and and now we had a power

surge ended up messing up our AC unit.

Uh, fast forward, we've been doing band-aid repairs. >> Did you not get an insurance settlement at the time?

>> So, so we tried to go through the insurance at the time. We had All State and All State told us that we had a

clause that uh any typhoon, cyclone or

hurricane related damage was a 10%

deductible on the of the entire dwelling coverage. My my home's value is about

$360,000.

So out of pocket, they wanted us to come out first 36 grand roughly. And

>> so what's it going to cost you out of pocket now if you do it on your own

>> to do all the repairs on our own?

>> Mhm.

>> Well, right now we're we're going through getting all the estimates for everything that needs to be done. Um we've thankfully we've been approved and

and I say thankfully uh lightly because

>> for a loan uh hang on we'll be right back with you. We want to make sure we get the good all the details and we'll be back with [music] you in a minute.

All

>> [music]

[music]

>> right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/

[music]

Junior. He's got a house in Augusta, Georgia. was damaged by Hurricane Hela a couple of years ago. All State doesn't pay out on typhoons and hurricanes. He discovered after the fact, so I'm guessing you have different insurance now that you figured out All State's not a good idea. And um they pay out, but

they wanted a 10% deductible of 300 or $30,000 on a $300,000 house. So now he's

got all these repairs that still remain undone. And that's about how far we got in the discussion. Does that sound right, Junior?

Yes, sir. That's correct. >> Okay. So, what repairs remain to be done today?

>> We are still getting an inspection on our roof. Um thankfully, uh one person

mentioned that it it's looking good.

There's no need to go into the uh into into the attic. Um I need to replace an AC unit. Our deck is completely done

for. Um and it's only deteriorated over

the past year and a half.

The AC has never been fixed since the hurricane. >> It's been b we've had a couple of band-aid fixes and then finally the condenser has finally gone out and they said that all that's left to be done now is to >> um >> So you got to put a new heat and air unit on it and you need a new deck.

>> Correct. >> And that's what we need.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And the deck has been that way for two years and the heat and air unit just finally gave up the ghost after some band-aids. So, uh, have you gotten three or four bids on the heat and air unit?

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

>> What do those bids look like? What do they look like?

>> Yeah, you're we're averaging 10,000 11,000 uh just depending on what the uh

you know, what the type of the the air unit is? >> Yeah. And uh and what's your household income, sir?

>> We're at about 175,000 between my wife and I. >> Okay. So, why can you not come up with 10 grand making 175,000?

>> Well, the the the reason why is because

since the hurricane, we've had so we've had two major life events in the past couple of years. So, one, my grandfather passed, which um anyways, we had some

major uh some major expenses come out of that. Unfortunately, we've also had some just uh mal money management. So, we are

currently in debt. uh what we've truly

never have been as far as credit card debt goes. >> So, how much debt do you have? >> We've got we've got about $30,000 in

debt right now. >> So, why can you not come up with $10,000 with $30,000 in debt making 175 grand?

>> $175,000, man. Really? >> I mean, are you taking home 10 grand a month?

>> Uh, no. We So after after all our taxes

are taken out, our takehome is probably about um I want to say maybe about six

5,000. >> No, it's not. >> You're taking home 72 out of 175.

>> No, there's not $100,000 worth of taxes.

>> Nope. Nope. Are you putting money in your 401k?

>> No. No, we stopped that when >> How much is your How much is your Are you taking health insurance out? What else is coming out of your check?

>> Yep. So, health insurance is coming out.

Um, so we do owe on our on two vehicles

>> out of your check. >> Uh, I'm sorry. My apologies. I'm just I'm

pointing out the monthly expenses.

>> I'm talking about what hits your bank account. >> Here's the thing. $175,000.

That's $15,000

a month.

Okay, you with me?

>> Yep. minus taxes, you should be coming home with 12.

And 12 minus your house payment, you should be able to save up 10 grand and fix your heat and air. But you guys are just running in circles chasing your tail instead of getting on a system and making these these dollars behave as you said, mal handling, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. And so, uh, you got that that's how you ended up with $30,000 in debt.

Um, I'm sorry your grandfather passed, but that didn't cost you any money,

did it?

>> Um, well, the overnight um travel for

the family and just the day >> a few hundred a few hundred bucks or something, but it really wasn't I mean, it's not >> it was it was heartbreaking and it's tragic. I don't I'm not not diminishing that, but we don't confuse those things with the math impact. So, you make enough money to have cleaned up this mess long ago. And that's what you should do.

You should cash flow the heating and air. And then you should begin to work on paying down your debt and talking about putting together some money to fix the deck and uh out of your monthly income.

are you getting a big tax refund every year?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I thought you might be. So, you probably need to look at that. You probably have too much coming out of your check and you're getting it back at the end of the year.

>> Correct. We uh I we we claim zero.

>> Okay. What was your refund this year?

>> This year being the biggest one that's it's it's been. Yeah. This year was about nine 9,000.

>> Okay. >> Where did that go?

>> So we we we still have it in in a in a savings. >> So you can almost cash flow the AC unit.

So, use it to buy a heat and air unit.

Why are you getting approved for loans?

>> Well, this one was through the SBA.

>> The loan. >> So, correct.

>> I don't care what it's through. I don't care if it's through your mama. You don't need a loan. You have the money in your bank account to buy heating and air.

Go fix the heating and air and start

getting the money that you have coming into the house. And you need to change your take-home pay by $700

a month now. And and that's the minimum you need to change it by. So that'll at least that. And go in and change your go in tomorrow at work. Tell payroll you need an extra $700 a month coming out of your check. Pull the money out of your savings. Order a heat and air unit. Call the guy and tell him if it's cash, what's the discount?

Because I'm going to give you cash. like Benjamin's. What's the discount? And I

want a discount. I want you to get over here and get this thing fixed now. Then I want you to get four bids on the deck.

And I want you to find some guy at your church that's looking for work that knows how to build decks and get him to build the deck for you at a deal. And he gets work and you get to use some money to do that. And you got $700 a month now

to put towards fixing that deck. And then you start getting rid of these credit cards. You get them out and chop them up. So you just got to sit down by the way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. You list these different things out that are going on and you fix them one. Fix that one. Then fix that one.

Then fix that one. Then fix that one.

And you've been very passive and stood back and all of this has happened to you and you're being a perpetual freaking victim. And you need to stop it, man.

It's killing you. I mean, I talked to you for seven, eight minutes before you finally revealed to me you have the money in your savings account to buy your heating and air. You buried the lead. That's how screwed up your brain is right now. So, dig into this stuff,

man. Dig into it and get it laid out like it was your job because it is your job. That's what you got to do. Anna is in New York. Hey, Anna. What's up?

>> Hey, George and Dave. Very excited to be speaking to you guys today. So, I

recently learned earlier today that my husband um was hiding. I would say

hiding um not being fully honest with $40,000 worth of credit card debt and I

am unsure how to proceed in both our

relationship and paying it off.

>> Wow, you're being very calm. [laughter]

>> I'm trying.

>> Is he alive?

>> Why did he do this? Let him out of the closet, Anna. You can't lock him in the closet. That's illegal. [laughter]

Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, you rebuild trust

one brick at a time by being trustworthy.

>> And so, it's not instantaneous and it's not a system and there's not a switch you flip. >> So, he has violated trust.

>> Whether he did it because of shame and didn't want to tell you about it or deception, which is even worse. Either

way, >> I think it's the former. >> Yeah. Either way, he he you know, he he

regains trust by being extremely transparent. Both of you getting on the same page and every single transaction

is in front of both of you for the rest of your lives. And then you sit down and you go, "Okay, with our income, how are we going to pay off this $40 freaking thousand? We're going to cut up the stupid card and we're going to attack it and knock it out as fast as we possibly can.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music]

Well, we love debtfree screams. We love debtree screams on the debtree stage in the Ramsay Solutions

lobby. We especially love them when it's our own team members. So, Gabe is with us. Gabe Fox is a copywriter here at Ramsey Solutions. Been with us for a whole year over in the Ramsey Trusted area. And he's up here to do his debtree scream. Did I get all that right, Gabe?

>> That's correct. Absolutely.

>> Very cool. So, when you moved here, did you move here from somewhere else? >> I did. Yeah. >> From where? >> From Texas. >> All right. And you came here to take this job? >> I did. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And how much debt did you have?

>> Uh, I had $26,469.

Okay. And that's been one year you paid it off then? >> Uh 21 months. >> 21 months. Okay. So, since you've been here, it's been half of that roughly.

Yeah. >> Okay. Cool. Very cool. And we don't ask incomes on team members cuz he's got 50 of his friends that work with him standing around here. Don't make it weird. Not fair and awkward. Okay. So, anyway, uh what kind of debt was the

26,000? >> Completely student loans. >> Okay. And your degree is in >> uh it's called integrated studies with a minor in business. So, okay. Very good.

Perfect for being a copywriter at Ramsey Trusted. That's right. No question. Good. Okay. So, before you came here,

>> had you just graduated? Is that what the 21 months is or >> No, I moved home for a year. Graduated in 2024. Moved back to Texas for a year and then I moved here. >> Okay. All right. And so, this was your second job, I guess, after college then.

>> Correct. Okay. Cool. And uh so how did

because you started this get out of debt process a year before you came to work here. >> Correct. I did. And how did you find Ramsay at that point?

>> So I graduated in 2024, moved back home

to uh work a copywriting job for a Christian TV network back there. Um and right before graduating, uh one of my buddies sitting over there. Um he was like, "Dude, uh this I was just becoming familiar with Ramsay. I'd heard about FPU and a few other books.

Um and he's like, "Dude, I I think that might be something that you should take." And I'm [snorts] like, "Honestly, I think you're right." So signed up for it, started taking it. It fired me up. Started >> financial piece. >> Correct.

Okay. Went to Financial Peace University. Correct. Had freshly graduated from college.

>> Right. Yeah. Literally like two weeks later bought it and started taking it.

>> Wow. Okay. And so from then on, there's no looking back. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz once we suck you into that portal, you're going to do it. >> Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. [laughter] And then once you got here, did it put things into high gear for you? What what changed once you landed at Ramsay?

>> Lots of shaming. We shame them.

>> We shame them at length until they pay off their We don't even hire you unless you're debtree and I should tell them that's a lie. >> Lots of guilt tripping. No, I'm I'm being sarcastic. There's a lot of encouragement really, isn't there?

>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My whole team was encouraging me. They they knew where I was at.

My whole onboarding team walked me walked me through this and encouraged me to do the debtree scream and uh it was just so encouraging to have people alongside me that that one had their own stories.

it with me daily and and catching up with me and and and taking me to the end. Very cool. So, other than the Ramsay team that you sit with every day, who was cheering you on? >> Um, I've got four friends over here.

Um, yeah, went to college with two of them and they were with they were with me from the very beginning. Um, when I realized, >> guys, I've got 26 grand to pay off.

Um, [snorts] and they were they just sat set me sat me down and set me straight and said, "Guys," or "Gabe, this is this is the time to deal with this." Um, and I said, "You know what? You're right." So, decided to do it.

>> Boom. Game on. I love it. So, mom and dad cheering you on, too, I'm sure.

>> 100%. Yeah. They let me live at home for a year and um I mean, that freed up so

much money for me to send to the debt.

Um, so massive shout out to them. It was such a generous offer. >> Very cool. Very cool. Good to for you, man. And then you have been here a year and finished off the thing 21 months total for $26,000.

Okay. Now you write copy for Ramsey Trusted. Which area in Ramsey Trusted?

Which >> protections. >> Protections. Okay. So for insurance, >> correct? >> For those of you that don't know, out there. And uh so you're kind of immersed in this stuff every day. But now when you're personally doing this and your buddy from college calls up and says, "Hey, what's the secret? What did you do to get out of debt? What do you tell them? >> That's a great question. Um, I think the

idea of ownership, just realizing that this is mine to deal with. Um, I could look away and I could just act like it's not there for 30 years and and look back and it's grown to be much larger than it was in the first place. Um, or I can decide that I have a decision um, an opportunity to transform my family tree, my family's financial legacy. Um, both

are hard. Both are hard in different ways. Um, but [snorts] I think hard things are worth doing and this was a hard thing worth doing. I decided that um this decision is going to change my life forever and um just deciding that

uh taking ownership is is so worth it.

Um that would be a message that I would share with anybody teaching them to take ownership. >> Okay, so for all you people out there that when I say there's awesome Gen Z's and a bunch of them work here, you just heard it. Okay, you just heard it. That was a complete mic drop.

That's a good hire right there. >> That's a complete I see myself in your story, Gabe, cuz when I started here, I was 23, 36 grand in student loan debt, >> and we did good to get a continuous sentence out of you. >> That's true. I was I was a on the struggle.

>> Gab's a stud from day one. It took me a while to to blossom, but I just [laughter] I love that story cuz I go, okay, he's on this trajectory to be a baby steps millionaire now, probably in your 30s if you continue down this path or sooner. And so it just encourages me that we're going to see a whole new generation of of Gabes who go, I'm not going to wait on the government or student loan forgiveness or make it someone else's problem. I'm going to look in the mirror and go, I can clean this up.

>> I own this. I'm not a victim. >> Yeah. And in 21 months, it's done.

And you decided it's my job.

>> Yeah. Amen. Amen. Well done, sir.

>> Thank you. >> Very proud of you. The gang is very proud of you. >> Got a few hundred people. No one's Is anybody working anymore, Dave? >> Does anybody work here anymore?

[laughter] They all come out and watch Debtree Screams. I love it. Gabe Fox, copywriter for protections and Ramsey Trust, had been with us for the last year. But 21 months ago, he started Financial Peace University, started the process, and he's now paid off $26,000.

Debt-free Gen Z, ready to rock and roll.

Count it down. Let's hear a great debtree scream. 3 2 1 I'm de free.

[screaming] >> YEAHOOP.

>> The crowd goes wild. >> Yeah, [applause] that's pretty cool, >> man. I loved his answer. Ownership. Own

it. I did it. I got to fix it. I own it.

Personal responsibility. you you call it whatever you want to call it, but I mean that at any age once you look in the mirror and you go, you're the freaking problem and you're the solution. Your life has changed. But until you look in the mirror and you say that to you, you're going to struggle the rest of your life. And getting people to do this at any age group, that's an emotional maturity, a spiritual maturity that that

is necessary to be uh to be other I mean

to to just have a worldclass impact on things. >> Yeah. I mean, if he can do this with money, now he's going, I can take ownership in every other area of my life. And so, it really gives you agency maybe for the first time to go, I can affect change in every other area.

That's encouraging. >> I'm I'm not going to wait 30 years to pay off my student loans. I'm not going to wait on the government or Biden to forgive my student loan debt. I'm not going to just just knock it out. Just draw back and smack it in the head, man.

Just go, you going down. I own you. You

don't own me. And when you get that going, you get that thing going. You understand? The borrower is slave to the lender. And I don't need any more masters. I am so done with masters. I'm so done with people telling me freaking what to do. What's in your wallet? Jump off a cliff. I don't want to care what's in my wallet. What's in your wallet?

Millions of dollars for doing them stupid ads. That's what's in your wallet. So, no. We don't want We don't want to listen to some broke actor. This is not No, no, no, no. I'm not living like this anymore. Not Ford Motor Company. Keep it. We don't need a payment, you know. No, no. It changes

everything when you take that ownership. I love this guy. >> Yeah. When you have that level of focus, just for a short time in an ADD culture, you'll be shocked at how far it'll take you.

Just being focused on one thing at one time. You will get so much done and be so successful. >> Yeah. But it starts with this idea of just spiritual ownership.

And Gabe Gabe nailed it. So proud of you, Gabe. >> I love it, man. Glad you're on the team, >> man.

We are. We're definitely proud of you. Glad you're here. Yes.

Yes.

Yes, this is how it works, ladies and gentlemen.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey, what's up guys? Guys, it's Jade Warshaw. Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

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[music]

Our [music]

[music] scripture today, 2 Corinthians 4:8 and9.

We are hardpressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not abandoned, struck down, but not destroyed. Artha

Franklin said, "It's the rough side of the mountain that's the easiest to climb. The smooth side doesn't have anything for you to hang on to, [laughter] >> which makes a good point. >> Not bad. Not bad. Hey, the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and if your wallet and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free

insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps.

ramseysolutions.com/checkup is where you go to get the free coverage checkup and be sure you do that.

Ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Andrew is in San Francisco. Hi Andrew.

How are you? >> Hi. Good. How's it going Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Good. Just uh kind of calling about a issue I got myself into. A little bit of a backstory.

Um about 2 three years ago I put myself in a bit of a hole. Um, I had a very good financial year for myself and then I lost someone who meant very much to me, a good friend. I decided then to take the money that I had after becoming debtree and buying a car. You know, they went the spoil myself route to feel better.

month, not including insurance and the rest. I also have about $5,900 in credit

card debt included with about $7,000 in

personal loans debt. And I have a baby

coming up that is due in August.

>> Cool. How long you been married?

>> I am not married. >> Okay. What does your uh fiance make?

>> Um she's actually a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. All right. And how old are you?

>> 23 years old. >> Okay. One more time, tell me what did what you make.

>> I make $83,000 a year gross.

>> Doing sums up to about I work in I work

in sales. >> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Fun.

Okay. Um well, you're probably going to get a little more than you asked for on this call. Um but I'm going to try to love you well. If if you were uh my son

is 10 years older than you, but if you were my kid, here's what I would tell you. Okay? The data tells us that people

that are married and work together have higher net worths

and higher income and live longer than people who are not. This is statistical data. Okay? So when we study millionaires, we find almost none of them shacked up.

Almost all of them are married is what

we find. That's the data. Okay? So it's a financial advantage, a relational advantage, um an advantage for your child, a legal advantage for your wife

because she has some protections then.

And so I'm my first recommendation to you would be to get married Saturday.

That's my first recommendation. Okay. To help you move forward and build your family and let's go from here. Then you've got 5900 in credit card debt and

34,000 on a car and you make 83. Is that

your only debts?

>> Those are my only debts along with the credit card debt. Uh yeah, credit card debt, personal loans, which was $7,000

and the car loan. >> Okay. 47 total. Who Who are the personal

loans to?

>> Me. >> Okay. No, I mean, who are they? Who'd you borrow them from?

>> Oh, um, it was an online company called Upstart.

>> Oh, crap. So, this is like a payday lender type thing.

>> Uh, not necessarily.

>> It's crappy interest rate. Yeah, >> it's horrible interest rate. >> Yeah, that's the one I remember. Okay. >> What's the car worth?

>> Car is worth an estimated of about $30,000. So, I've already looked into getting rid of it. I'm about $4,000 upside down.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So, I think I

would scratch up the $4,000 first, pay

minimum payments on the other stuff.

Let's get rid of the car and get you a 2 or $3,000 car that you pay cash for.

Getting rid of that car mistake does two things. One, um, obviously the

mathematics are horrible. The interest rate and all of that, the payments crazy, all that stuff, it's dra it's dragging you down. But the other thing is that car is tied to pain. It's tied

to psychological trauma for you. So every time you get in it, every time you write a check for it, you know, I got ripped off because my heart was broken and I made a bad decision. And it's a reminder of that. I'd want that reminder out of my life. Am I right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And with that, an $800 a month raise.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the first thing I'm going to do is pay minimums or just quit paying the $7,000. I don't care. Doesn't matter to me. But I I want you to get rid of the car by scratching up $4,000 working overtime. You got anything you can sell? Do you have any money saved?

>> Um I don't have any money saved. I've been trying to work continuously to save up a little bit extra money on the side.

Um how old is the baby?

>> The baby isn't here yet, luckily. So, we're due in August. >> Oh, great. Okay. So, you can get married before that. That's even better. Okay.

That's that's very helpful to the data.

Okay, good. Um, yeah. Uh, well, I mean,

anything she can do to earn money until

the baby comes, I know she's in her third trimester. I'm not trying to put her in the salt mines, but if anything she could do to earn money, it adds flavor to this, right? Cuz here's the deal. If the faster we get rid of this car, we got 800 bucks. And then the two of us sit down, we do a tight budget, we work what we and then all we got to do is just, you know, knock out like 10 15,000 bucks and you can do that in a few months.

>> Yes. >> Cuz most of this debt isn't tied up in this car. >> Think about what it would be like to get to Christmas and have zero debt,

>> man. It would feel good.

>> Yeah, that's what I want for you. And a new baby and a new wife. Life is good.

I'm smiling right now. Now we're moving forward. I like this a lot. And you've learned your lesson at 23 to never go on one of these ripoff interest rate personal loan sites. Like you got screwed and you got screwed on the car, too.

>> Yes, I did. It was a very bad decision that I've made. >> The good news is you got the whole rest of your life to never get screwed again because now you know what it looks like.

You go, I'm not signing up for that. I don't care what you do. You can do whatever you want to do. I'm not signing up for that.

You can have a gun. I'm not signing up for that ever. Again, I'm not going to let myself get screwed ever again. you you got a beautiful life ahead of you.

Only 23. I went broke when I was 28 and filed bankruptcy. I've had a beautiful life since then because I learned a lot of stupid but stuff about myself during that time and I there's a lot of stuff I never do again. You know, you got a great thing going here.

I'm so proud of you, young man. You're going to be great. This is going to be so good for you. All right.

>> Oo, [laughter] so kind. >> I'm going to give you a copy of George's book. >> Oh, perfect. Happy to give that away.

and a copy of the Total Money Makeover book since you and I are the ones that took the call. And the baby's going to have a mommy and a daddy and they make $85,000 a year and he's 23 years old and

he's going to get rid of people screwing him. All these car companies, >> all these payday lender types on what was it? Upstart. Upstart Chris.

>> Yeah, Upstart just had 30 million people

say you suck. Upstart, I hope you heard that. We just told 30 million people you suck. You screwed a 23 year old kid and

you deserve for everybody in America.

>> I bet they're marketing is like we're the lifeline. We'll give you the financial marketing is like we suck but come do it anyway. We'll screw you but come see us anyway. That's their marketing line. Just it's like like SoFi, right? Yeah. We have a stadium.

Who do you think paid for that? Yeah.

>> You and your and you and you and you.

They are people that we help. Yes. We're helpful. That's what we are. Oh man, I tell you what, the villains are the villains are run a muck in this cartoon.

>> Well, it's funny. The the villains will happily show up in your life when you're so desperate and they'll act like they're the hero. >> That's the scary part. >> We're here to help. >> You'll get an Instagram ad going, "Oh, finally relief is here." No, that's not relief. That's 600% interest on your

payday loan. [laughter and clears throat] >> Relief is when I get Upstart out of

>> Unless you're selling hemorrhoid cream.

We don't want relief name. You people ought to be I bet your mother's ashamed of you if you work at Upstart. Oh my gosh. Wow. Hey, hang on. Uh Andrew, we're going to give you a couple wedding gifts and congratulations on your wedding this weekend.

[laughter] >> That's exciting. I love that Dave just planned the wedding for you. The man should be in the wedding planning business. >> Totally assumptive clothes. Yes. No question about it. >> I wonder how many people you've convinced to get married that otherwise wouldn't have. That's a beautiful thing.

>> It's a wonderful thing. >> And you're not even ordained, I don't think. >> Not yet. You never know. You never know.

a lot of things, but that's not one of them. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 60. Financial Pain Creates Real Change | June 1, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour and we're taking your calls for free.88255225.

And as Dave says, some say the advice is worth what you paid for it. >> A lovely riddle. >> We'll see how it goes today. Jonathan kicks us off in Orlando. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Uh, how you doing? >> Doing well. >> Um,

I have uh a question. I had gotten myself in a big mess where I'm actually

where I actually had to force well actually forced the uh credit card company to sue me. You forced them to sue you >> by not paying.

>> Uh not paying. Um every time I s sign

the agreement and set up a payment plan,

I changed my numbers and bank accounts and they never hear from me again.

>> Why were you scamming like that?

Uh, well, it all started with American Express back in August 2023 where I paid

off all my American Express cards and requested my uh close my account

and they did all except for one card.

They returned a payment. They kept the

uh they kept the minimum payment and

they told me I was no longer el eligible to pay that card off in full because they just jacked the interest rates up to 49% on them.

>> Okay, I'm struggling to find a question in here. How can we help today? Uh, so

my question would be, uh, because I tried different, uh, lawyers and whatnot and they all told me that chapter 7 would probably be the best way out of it.

>> How much credit card debt do you have?

>> Uh, about 49,000.

>> Okay. And I just want to make sure I understood I ma made sure I understood.

You did you say that American Express

would not allow you to pay the full balance? Is that what I heard you say?

Yes, they told me that uh this was right

after when they declared the pandemic over >> and I they jacked the interest up on all

my cards to up above 49%. So I called

them and I asked them why and see if I can get them back down to 19% where they was originally and it's like they told me no that was a federal going rate.

>> Okay. >> And uh >> Right. Okay. I understand they jacked the interest up, but I I I want clarity on the payment. You said that you couldn't pay it off. They would not allow you to pay it off. Is that simply because they made the interest so high you felt it was impossible, or was there something somebody was restricting you on the phone from making a payment?

>> No, I I I sent in the payment

twice.

The first time they sent it back, they

kept the minimum payment and I had received the letters and they said they could not validate where my funds came from.

>> So there is one of the reasons that that might happen would be if your account's been frozen or closed or if you're under

fraud or review and or if there's suspicious activity. And if what you're saying is you were constantly changing your, you know, address and constantly, that might be a reason. I don't know.

>> No. Uh, this was, uh, this was after after they returned my payments cuz, uh,

it's been it's been two years where the

debt collector has been coming after me.

>> So, where are you at in the lawsuit? Has there been a judgment against you?

>> Uh, not yet. They just they just filed

and the same debt collector just went

and bought the other credit cards and they're getting ready to file the other on the other seven.

>> Okay. How much money do you make?

>> I make roughly 70,000 a year.

>> And do you have any assets or money to your name right now?

>> Uh no. >> Is this the only debt?

>> The 49,000.

>> I uh No. I got a house. Uh, got two

cars.

>> Those both have loans on them.

>> Yeah. >> What are the loans on the cars?

>> Uh, one's, uh, like 29,000. The other

one's $7,000.

>> Do you need both cars?

>> I need one.

>> Could we sell the one that has a $29,000 loan on it?

Uh, actually that one I can't can't

sail. >> Are you upside down?

>> Uh, it's not upside down. At the time I

purchased when I ordered the truck in

2023.

>> Well, what's it worth today? You owe 29.

What's it worth today?

>> Uh, today Kelly Blue Book value has it

right at 195. So you're 10,000

underwater.

Yeah.

>> Uh, and that's it. There's no other personal loans, helocks, anything else that we should be privy to?

>> No. >> Okay. Is it just you or do you have a wife, kids?

>> Uh, wife.

>> Uh, one of the biggest problems I've

been trying to get uh been trying to send them payments and all that to this debt collector, but the more I pay them, the greedier they get. And >> well, I don't think they're getting greedy. I think they want their money.

Um, and they, don't get me wrong, they they have horrible ways of showing that.

But the truth is, you owe this money.

And all of the backstory and getting up to this point, I think if we spend too much time thinking about all of that, it's just going to cloud uh our our our

intentions going forward. So, today, what we're looking at is $49,000 of credit card debt. The past doesn't matter. We're looking at 29,000 a $29,000 vehicle that we're $10,000 upside down on and another $7,000 vehicle with $70,000 of income. Is your wife working at all?

>> No, she's not working. We just got married in in April and

uh we haven't been able to get We're waiting for the attorneys to file her adjustment of status.

>> Is she not legally allowed to work in the states?

>> Right. Until the adjustment of status is done. Got you. Okay. How old are you guys?

>> I'm 45. She's 44.

>> Okay. So, the the solution to this

problem isn't filing bankruptcy. The

solution to this problem is you taking 100% control and and responsibility for

what's gone on here over the past several years. The truth is you've lived a lifestyle that's above what you earn.

and you earn $70,000 a year and uh you've got car loans you can't afford.

For whatever reason, you've racked up almost $50,000 of credit card debt. And that's the truth. So, getting out of this is going to require you raising your income in multiple ways. And it's going to require you lowering your expenses in multiple ways. None of which are going to be comfortable or fun uh in

any way, shape, or form. But it is going to be comfortable and fun once you're out of the debt. So the only way out of this is debt snowball it and you know if the credit card debts are old enough eventually you might be able to settle for a little less than what's owed but if you owe it and you can pay it let's just make a plan to get this done. I mean going into 49 grand of credit card debt tells me there's been a couple of years of buying some toys living high on the hog and now it's time to face the face the numbers face reality and get on a plan with your wife.

even though she doesn't have an income right now, she's involved with this because some of the spending is going to be from both of you.

>> Yeah. And we didn't ask you about your mortgage, but I can tell you if your mortgage is more than 25% of that 4,800

take-home pay that you probably have, that's probably one of the first things on the chopping block. >> Yeah. And bankruptcy is not a quick fix.

It will destroy your financial life, stay on your credit report for 10 years, make it hard to rent an apartment, get jobs, all of that. So, I would not go down that path.

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Anna is in Nashville just down the road up next. What's going on Anna?

>> Are you with us?

>> Yes. >> How you doing? >> I'm a single mom of good. How are you?

>> Good.

>> I'm a single mom of two and I'm self-employed and I have $28,000 in

credit card debt right now. So all of the payments are current, but the interest in debt is really hard to manage.

>> Is that your only debts? Is it 28K?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What's your income?

>> It varies because I'm self-employed. So some months it's quite good and other months it's slower. So I'm creating some supplemental income >> through side work or what?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. What's give me an average month.

>> Um, an average month this year has been really low because I've been taking some business courses and um, furthering my education, but some months I was making 3,000 a month and other months I was making very little. >> So 3,000 is like the top end.

>> What kind of work is it?

>> Um, I'm a practitioner. So, I started my

own business to support women and children with anxiety. Um, but I basically left an abusive marriage.

Started my whole life over again. Left the state. >> Okay. >> Um, paid off old bills like on the

credit card. It's old bills he wouldn't pay. Attorney's fees.

>> Got it. >> And then rebuilding my life to create a business where I could work from home.

>> Okay. How old are the kids?

>> Um, they're now 13 and 16.

>> Okay. So, in school and you have full custody.

>> I do have full custody now.

>> Okay. Um I I think the struggle is

coming from the 3,000 a month, which it

sounds like on many months it's less than that. I think that's where a lot of the struggle is. You said you're doing some uh supplemental work. What are you earning? What are you doing and earning from that work?

Um I'm just starting to pick up more and more work because before I could the reason why some of the early months were low is I was just in survival mode.

>> Sure. >> You know, leaving leaving that place and

then trying to help my kids and so I wasn't >> at my best capacity from now going forward. >> How long ago was building and putting more out there? >> How long ago did you leave?

>> I left four years ago. It took two years to get the divorce and I had no support for two years. >> Understood. So you're you're back on your feet. We'll say maybe two years back on your feet. But back to the other question. What is the supplemental work that you're doing and what are you earning from it?

>> Um I just started some of the supplemental work. So I'm doing you know like some dog walking walking pet sitting on the side.

>> Dog walking pet sitting. Do I mean you've just started I realize that. And by the way no one we're just trying to get information. Um, no shame in any game. I did do walk, dog walking and petzing. I did all that, too, when I was getting out of debt. So, don't don't feel bad about saying what it is and don't feel bad about saying the amounts.

The more details you give us, the more it'll help us help you out. So, just getting started on that. What do you what are you able to bring in uh on dog walking today and what do you think you can get it to?

>> I just started. So, literally, we have

our like first customer. I try to pick something I could do with my kids. So, I mean, we're looking at >> I love that. >> Um, >> you know, four days it's going to be a couple hundred dollar.

>> Okay, great. Okay. >> Um, but I can also work from home while I'm doing that. >> Okay, so you get a client for if they're gone for a weekend, you think you can make $200 or $300 off of that.

I love that. I think it's a great thing to be able to do with the kids. Uh, I wonder though with 13 and 16 year olds, do you need to do your job with the kids?

don't involve them being available to go with you. And that might free you up a little bit. Fair.

>> Exactly. And that's why I'm building my business right now. I'm able to Before I was doing one-on- ones with clients.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um and so now I'm broadening it so it's a little more affordable for other people. I help other people who went through trauma. Right.

>> I want to challenge you on this though.

And and this is I'm being your buddy right now. This is not me trying to jam you. This is me trying to be your buddy.

>> What you're earning from this side hustle consistently from from your business equates to a side hustle. It's not a full-time business yet. I want you to keep doing it because you're clearly passionate about it and you have a point of view because you've lived it. But today, I would love to see you go out into the world and get a job that can earn you double that. because I think that you're worth it and I think that you have that to offer and it'll help you break free of this debt.

>> Yeah, you need stability right now and right now this the business it's great but it this feels like ministry that you could get paid for long term but let's make that gravy on top when we're not working full-time 40 hours a week.

Do you have health insurance right now?

>> I have tenure. >> Okay. So, the focus is going to be let's

get this income up because without that it's going to be hard to even keep up with the credit card payments. What are the minimum payments every month on this 28k?

>> Well, there's two separate cards and the minimum payments equal about $700.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, the goal is going to be what is the smallest balance of of the two cards?

>> Um roughly under $11,000

>> and then the other one's about 17.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, our goal is going to be to chip away at that smaller 11,000 one.

And I mean, if you put a,000 bucks toward it a month, you'd be done in around 11 months. So, about a year.

>> So, that's just the napkin math to show you, you know, how long it's going to take, how fast you can move, depending on how much margin you have. So, that's the name of the game here. We're talking about your income, we're talking about your expenses, and the gap between that, hopefully there is one, is called your margin. >> And that's what's going to allow you to get out of this debt fast.

Normally, it takes people 18 to 24 months.

>> right? I mean, when I'm saying it was just continuing education and so I have everything that I need right now. It's just a matter of more visibility and getting myself out there more.

>> That's true. >> Get the clients. I get really good money. The truth is Anna though that there is a horizon on building that for

anybody who's starting a business. There is a horizon for creating uh a

reasonable client base that's dependable that you know you're going to earn. And so for that reason, no one is saying don't do it. No one is saying uh you know it's not worth it. We we believe in that and we love that. However, a lot of times you have to do something full-time while you're building the business.

While my husband and I were building our entertainment business, I still had to go and do gigs and perform and do a lot of the things that I didn't really want to do, but that's where the steady money was. And so, I had to do both at the same time for a while until the business that I really wanted to do took over and could earn me what I what we needed uh in order to pay off our debt and sustain our life. So, that I I just really want you to hear that. I agree with George and and this is for the broader audience.

When you are about the business of paying off debt, you need focused intensity. All right? You can't do a bunch of things at once because something's going to suffer. You can't work on school, work on the business, pay three cards at the same time.

You have to pick one goal and focus all of your intensity and all of your margin and all of your efforts at that one goal. Even if it feels silly to say, "Well, I'm just focused on paying $2,000 off on this credit card right now." You will be shocked, George. You know this, how quickly you will pay something off when you put all of your effort towards it. >> You got to get the blinders on.

I would pause school. I would try to go for a full-time job while you double down on these side gigs. And if you have clients currently, that's great, and you can still try to find some more. But right now, I would not be just so focused on growing the business because that's going to take your efforts away from debt payoff, side gigs on top of everything else you've got going on.

>> Yeah. And you're going to have to invest some of what you're earning back into that business to grow it.

>> So, I hope this business grows. I hope you call us back, you know, a couple years from now and say, "I'm debtree.

The business is flourishing." Because to help others, you've got to do it from this place of strength. And right now, >> you're in a tough spot. And I love this passion you have to help others who have been through the same situation. But Jay's right.

You need to charge what you're worth right now. You can't just make it more affordable. That that's generosity. And generosity takes abundance to be generous.

It's an overflow. And so I hope you get there. I love your heart for this. And we're hoping that you can knock out these two debts using the debt snowball method.

I saw on the screen something about debt consolidation. >> Don't love that. Let's not make this into one giant mountain just to save 40 bucks a month on our payment. The factor in this is you.

>> Yes, >> that wouldn't hurt. >> Yes. >> Little work ethic.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at88255225.

We were just talking about margin jade and it's hard to find if you don't know where to look and you don't have a good app to help you along the way and it's why I love every dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app now. And here's a great quote from one of our fans. Love this app.

Makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day. We've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're on the same page. >> I love it.

Still fights but no money fights. >> Yes.

Good. If there's no fights, I question the marriage. I go >> not being real. Yeah. Mhm.

>> But money fights I could do without.

That's fantastic. So, if you want to check out Every Dollar, you can get it in the app store or Google Play.

Download it today if you want to find that margin. Paula is in Boston up next.

What's going on, Paula? >> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can Jade and I help?

>> Okay. So, I have two daughters. Well, my husband and I have two daughters. They are ages 9 and 12. And we are in a really neat place where we're about to move from baby step two to baby step seven, which is the last one, right? You said seven. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask what happened?

>> Well, it's kind of a a mixed emotion.

So, we live in a very high cost area and

my husband um has a line of duty injury

from the military and a line of duty injury from law enforcement here.

>> So, he's going to be getting double um

pension. well pension and then uh military retirement as well. And because

of the high cost of living here, we are actually selling our well, we're looking to sell our home here and then purchase in a lower cost of living area and the home will be cash.

>> Wow, that's a blessing >> and thank you for his his sacrifice and service. >> Wow, thank you so much. He's right here.

I'll pass it along to him.

>> Wow. Okay, so baby step two to baby step seven just like that.

Yeah, a lot of work in between, but yeah, essentially it'll it'll happen pretty quickly. Um, God willing. But we

have two daughters. They're 9 and 11.

And because of his veteran status, um,

we're wondering whether to invest in a 529 for our daughters. As a 100%

disabled, as dependents of 100% disabled veterans, they're eligible for yellow ribbon schools and to use the remainder of his GI Bill. So sometimes it's half and half, sometimes it just depends on what the funding is, but it's very likely that many colleges within the United States, they could go to them for free. That's awesome. >> So we >> Yeah. Yeah. So we just we want to make a wise decision and support them, but we also, you know, want to enjoy our money and not kind of put it away without necessity.

>> Yeah. I would this would weigh into my into how I invest for school. I think knowing that this is there um I'm not sure what all would be covered. Does it include just tuition or is it room and board and all those other things? Do you know? >> I believe it's just tuition.

>> Okay. Um I might invest a reasonable

like a smaller amount of money in a 529 knowing that okay, if they go to a 4-year, they're going to need books. They're probably going to, you know, maybe they're going to want to live on campus, that sort of thing. A meal plan.

Um I just wouldn't overly fund it. And

there's calculators out there that you can use, but just something to keep in mind. um the 529, whatever money that's

left in there, not all, but up to an uh

up to $35,000, I believe, per child can

be rolled over into a Roth IRA if they

don't use it. So, knowing that is kind of helpful. Also knowing that that money could pass to other siblings or other family members uh is also I don't know if you would have anybody or if you or your husband has any need to hire your education but those are good things to kind of keep in mind um as you fund that and what amount that you put into that.

>> Okay. So if there's money left over that amount can go into the Roth but then what happens to the rest of it if it's not used? You can pass it on, change the beneficiary any time to even grandkids or I mean there's a worst case scenario where you can just use the money.

There's just a 10% penalty.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> So, it's not like you can't touch it. Just know anything be beyond the 35,000.

Uh yeah, 10% which is not fun, but at least you're getting to your money. >> So, it's not going to just disappear. But I would do a lot of homework on this cuz there's still a little bit of a fingers crossed not knowing, you know, all the ins and outs, the fine print of this because I, my understanding, the GI Bill can only be used at one time for one person or the benefit split, which means it's, you know, half a benefit each.

>> Yeah. There's certain schools throughout the United States, like I know Liberty University is 100 like it has the G. So

it's a yellow ribbon school, so they pay 100% of the tuition.

>> Wow. >> So anything that's left over for additional So some schools will say 50% for yellow ribbon, the other 50% is a GI

bill. So we would just encourage them to go to a yellow ribbon school.

>> Yeah, understood. Okay. >> And again, there's a fingers crossed there cuz >> can you force your kid? I hope. But maybe they go, "No, mom. I want to go across the country to XYZ school because of this program or a boyfriend." And then they were like, >> "Listen, okay, I I have to speak on this cuz Paula, if that happens, the answer is no. >> You're on your own, kid. >> You're on your own, kid." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

>> And that's where the conversation's happening early and often to where those kids know exactly where you guys stand.

They know exactly how to go to school debtree if they so choose. And I hope they choose that. But again, the 529 plan is a great backup plan to have because you can use it for so much more than just that tuition. M and it's not going to hurt. You put, you know, 200 bucks a month in there from, you know, 11 to 18, you're going to have a nice buffer and not be worried about any

spillover or gap. >> Yeah. And just some nerdy things to keep in mind that Roth that uh 529 needs to be open needs to have been open for at least 15 years before you can start rolling it. And you know, the annual Roth contribution rates still apply. So whether it's 8,500 or maybe by those years it'll be like 11,000. Who knows what the >> if you open them now the kids will be, you know, 24 and 26. Well, that's great.

They just have a starter retirement plan right there if you have two 529s for them. So, I love I love that you guys are thinking about this >> and it's an unfortunate circumstance in which you guys are leaprogging the baby steps, but again, we're so grateful for for your husband's service.

>> So, that that 529 rule was part of the Secure Act uh 2.0 >> 2.0. And I got to believe, you know, I feel like 35,000 is kind of low, but I got to believe that that might go come up over time possibly as Roth limits,

contribution limits go up. Do you know what I mean? >> You can only convert up to the amount of the Roth IRA. So this year, you know, 7,500 bucks. So you can't do it all in one fell swoop. >> But it goes up every year. So you got to believe 15 years later, which is when the Roth would be eligible. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's the hope. You never know what the government >> know. They could revoke the whole thing. You You never know. I'm just glad there's an option cuz for so long people were like, well, I don't want to do it cuz what if they don't go? And I go, we have a student loan crisis upon us with about 1.7 trillion.

>> I'm more worried they're going to go into crippling student loan debt than the wonderful problem of what if they don't go and I have a pile of money sitting here >> that I can change to any beneficiary.

And what's cool, I mean, this can become a generational >> college endowment fund. When you think about it, by the time your kids have grandkids, >> never, you don't even have to add anything to it. It just grows. it'll just snowball into this massive pile of money. >> I like that idea. I'm not like aiming for that, but if it happens, I'm not mad about that old grandpa George started a scholarship fund >> for his whole generation.

>> Ken, >> I think that's what you call him.

>> That's very Beverly Hills. >> What's weird to think about is I'm going to be somebody's ancestor.

That's just weird to me. It may It just I don't want to think about it. >> Blew my mind a little bit. >> I don't want to think about it.

But it's a good teaching on the baby steps here, Jade, of when to do this. Some people they love their kids so much they forego investing in their own retirement to try to put away some money for >> junior time investing. You've got to put your own mask on first. I've heard you say that.

I think that's a really great analogy for it.

That's you paying off your debt. We teach a series of baby steps. Baby step one, get $1,000 saved. That's pretty quick. Most people do it in 30 days, George. Baby step two, we we talked about it earlier in the show. This is where your debt, snowballing, all of your debt, everything except the house.

And then from there, now we're going to start playing a little bit of uh offense. Is that a good way to say it?

We're going to start saving up some money for oursel. 3 to 6 months of expenses. It's a barrier between you and life, making sure you no longer go into debt, making sure you're in a really good uh financial footing so that you can begin baby step four, which is investing. Now, we're starting the process of investing. Baby step four, five, and six we do simultaneously. You want know what that means? At the same time. So baby step five now is the 529.

You could do an ESA. There's limits there. I like a 529. We just need details about it. >> Yeah. I do 529 plans for both of my kids. Couple hundred bucks in there from 0 to 18. You'll have six figures in there, which is by the way what it's going to cost for a normal state school by then. So ain't >> lying. God bless. Let's keep saving.

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Alice is up next in San Antonio. Welcome to the show, Alice.

>> Hi. Thank you so much. Um, my question was, what is the difference between being generous and enabling poor financial habits with family members?

>> Oo, love this question. And also, I'm sorry.

>> How close are these family members?

>> Um, they're my husband, siblings, and mom. Oh well, I think you said the difference in your explanation. I think the difference is poor financial habits. I think that

is the difference between helping and enabling. If somebody has really poor financial habits and let me add this po

part, they're not interested in changing them. That is the difference because I think all of us started out as at a point where we had a lot to learn financially and when the knowledge came

we were willing to receive it. We were willing to look at ourselves and go okay yeah they're right I need to change but if these family members are not willing to do that that's where it becomes I believe enabling because it's no longer helping them. >> Yeah. If there's no movement toward independence and the direction is not toward freedom for themselves and autonomy, well then we're just giving to give. And if they keep asking for more giving, it's not really giving at that point. It's entitlement.

>> So, is that where you guys are at? Are they >> every month going, "Hey, can we get 500 bucks?" >> No. And it's it's not even that much.

And so, like maybe it's just in like my head, but it it's we've been married for seven years now. So I would say over the course of seven years, it's probably been like every 3 months or so and it like rotates between them and then sometimes his friend also ask.

>> Oh gosh. So word has been going round that you it's bank of Alice.

>> Are you guys wealthy?

>> No. Um and we've also gone through like different job like uh we have two little kids at home and so I stay at home and work. I do some like side stuff, but like between us, you know, we probably um are on track to make about 70 this year. Um but it's like, you know, up and down.

So it's like it's not even like, you know, we're working six figure, you know, getting >> Why do they think they Why do they make the assumption that Allison friends will be able to fit the bill? Why do you think that is?

>> Uh yeah. And I'm not sure what he was doing like when he was single and stuff, but it just has been, you know, $25 here, $50 here, I need help covering my phone bill. Um, it's never really been

like a we can't put food on the table.

It's always been like, hey, this bill is here. So, I don't know where it started and whatnot, but I just like know that it just keeps and it's still, you know, seven years later, every once in a while it comes up. So, I you know, I feel like I'm in a bad position because it's like we have $25 we could send them, but I

just know it's going to come around again. >> Yeah. >> And um so, and I don't want it to be 500

or a,000 in the future kind of thing.

>> Are you guys debtree?

>> Yes, >> you're debtree. What baby step are you on?

>> I haven't really been following them. Um but we we just rerent. We don't have any credit card debt. We had school loans when we got married, but we paid them off within the first year.

>> Um, and then and we had some credit card debt, but then we paid it off. And so for rent, >> um, yeah, uh, we're working towards like 3 to six months of, um, you know, built up, so I think we're about two months ahead on our budget.

>> Okay. What does that equate to dollars wise?

>> I think it's 3,800 a month.

>> Okay. 3,800.

uh you have 3,800 saved or that's what you >> for a month. So, um all in total, it

sounds like crazy, but between all of our accounts, we probably have about $20,000, but I have it like all eared marked for months or a car fund or stuff

like that. >> Okay. So, the small tweak, and you didn't ask, but I'm just going to say this. The small tweak that I would make is I would make sure to do the math and

figure out what would be 6 months of expenses with 70,000. I like the idea of you having a full six months of expenses. It sounds like uh only one of you is working, not both of you.

>> Full time. Yeah, my husband is working full-time and then I do like um contractor work every once in a while.

>> Yeah, I'd love for it to be a full six months of expenses and I might hold back

on the funds, especially if it's not something that's really really pertinent to to the moment. I would hold back on doing the funds and get the the six months settled and then above and beyond we could do the funds on top of that.

So, back to the question at hand. Yeah, you just have to say no.

>> Is your husband aligned on this or are you the one who's like, "Hey, I don't like this pattern." He's like, "Well, it's just 25 bucks. It's fine." Or is he just as mad as you are?

>> No, he sees it as like it's it's only $25. And I see it as it's a pattern.

>> See, that's unification there. weird.

Yeah. And that's where I feel weird cuz I'm like I enjoy being generous and but it like it just >> Are you generous in other areas? Like do you guys have is do are you church people that you do tithe or do you have foundations that you give to? Are you generous regularly in other ways?

>> Yes. Yeah, we do 10% to our church and then we set aside another 10% to just give to random things.

>> Okay. And is this part of the 10% that you set aside to give to the random things? >> No, not typically. It's usually like structured organizations, um, missionaries, that sort of stuff.

>> So, that answers that question. That answers that kind of moral dilemma of am

I not a generous person? Clearly, you are, cuz you are giving it sounds like 10 to 20% of your income, which is very, very generous. So, that answers that moral dilemma. Anything beyond that is is this is the relational part of it which is somewhere in his mind or

upbringing he kind of feels like well this is just what you do. You know if your buddy asks for if your buddy asks for 10 bucks you give it to him.

>> We're not hurting. So what's the big deal? >> Now there is I I do want to I think there's a there's a difference here. If my if a if

a friend of mine was like hey we're out to dinner. She forgot her wallet. of course I'm spotting her the 25 whatever it is that's very different than hey man

you know I'm just coming on some hard times can you can you spot me you know I just got I need something for my cell phone bill right that it's a different feeling cuz it's like well what's causing this so what you can do a very

amazing way to be generous if you have not already done this is you and your husband number one to George's point you got to get on the same page but when you do you sit down with the mother-in-law you sit down with a friend you sit down with the siblings and say hey here's what and separately, not at the same time. Here's what we're seeing. It just sounds like you guys, we love you guys and it just sounds like you're going through a hard time. We'd love to show you the thing that helped us.

We've been there and we started walking these baby steps.

We'd love to gift you this and you can gift them every dollar. You can gift them Financial Peace University. Matter of fact, before you leave, we'll give you the total money makeover. put a bow on it and say this is the best gift that we could give you because it's what helped us and we know it can help you too. And that to me is a subliminal way of saying stop asking me for money.

>> They'll get the memo pretty quick and it's okay to just say hey we're not able to do that. Hey that's not in the budget for us but we'd love to sit down and help you create a budget and help you avoid needing money for bills next month and the month after cuz we're seeing this pattern and we love you. And so it's not out of a place of you know you're better than them. It's out of a place of love actually.

And if they never feel the consequence, then they're they're never going to change the behavior. So you're not being cruel by stopping.

>> Yeah. >> And that's the hard thing to do with family, people that you love.

>> Yes. >> And then they feel a certain way about you and they go, "Wow, that looks so stingy." >> Well, this is the part of money, this is the part of money that is emotional, which is it all has to do with the way we were brought up. If you were brought up in a way that you know everybody just kind of it's a pot of money and you just kind of throughout the family mom gives to dad, brother gives to mom and dad, grandma, you know, and everybody just kind of reaches in. That's very different from probably the way that you grew up with money emotionally.

that one is wrong or right. It's just your values and how you view it.

Because, >> you know, some people might argue, hey, if if the money doesn't bother you and you can do it, do it. Some people might argue that. I would disagree with that.

But it it it's just um it's from a value standpoint.

>> Got it. That makes sense. Um not to rain on y'all's parade, but we did buy them budgeting books for Christmas two years ago. >> Was it birthday?

>> No, it was a different one, but maybe we'll we'll have to throw I don't know.

>> It's collecting. That's why it didn't work.

>> I'm just joking. >> To be fair, I don't even know if they read it. I >> Well, we'll give you Every Dollar because that's the one that'll actually work. And we'll also give you Total Money Makeover. Uh George, what about Breaking Free from broke? >> Let's throw that one in there. >> Yeah. And I'll give you mine also. What?

No one told you. >> Kaboodleoodle. Well, there you go. So, that the key pieces here are guilt-based giving is not generosity and enabling isn't love. And the sooner you can understand that and put the boundary up in love, the better your life is going to be. The better your the better your marriage is going to be.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at88255225.

Danny is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Danny, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you guys for taking my call.

>> Sure. So, um, a little background, uh, me and my husband have been married for about a year and a half. Um, he immigrated here from Peru. He's been here for about 5 years now. Um, he has a

high possibility of being deported before our family case is approved.

>> Oh, wow. >> So, that'll be that decision will be made in December. So, we're we still have about 15,000 in credit card debt

that we were working on paying off. Um, but my question is, should we just keep to paying minimum payments and try and stack cash in this time since of the, you know, I don't know if he, if he's deported, it'll be like two to five years before he'll be able to come back.

>> Oh my gosh. >> So, I'll be going with him, of course.

>> Right. That was going to be my ask. And what are the financial implications if this does happen? Like, come December, let's say he is deported, you go with him. How much money is this going to cost you guys? And what will your new life be like?

Um, it depends. He could be detained um

for a couple months before he's deported and then it's kind of up to the government as to where they'll deport him to. Then we may have to pay for him for a flight to a new place um that's a little safer for him. He's thinking about going to Spain. Um he has a buddy that lives there that could help him out with starting his life there.

>> Um >> and you're just going to follow him wherever he can. >> I would plan.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. What are you guys doing for work? That's my husband right now. We both manage a kitchen. I make about $26 an

hour and he makes $23 an hour. Um, and

then we also have a bunch of side jobs.

So, we're bringing in about 8,000 a month. >> 8,000 a month. Okay. And do you are you renters? Do you have a house? Tell us about any assets you have.

>> We have two paid off vehicles. Uh, one

that has a loan on it, but it's not upside down. It's a wash if we sell it.

Um, so we have three vehicles. We're selling the one with debt on it to get that monthly payment out of. We have monthly bills of about $1,000 in lawyer fees. Um, and then the rest of our expenses are about three grand a month.

So, we'd be able to save a decent amount of money. Um, but paying off all that

that credit card debt, I I think um I'm not sure if it would be wise to do that. um given we we might need it. And >> yeah, I'm calling this storm mode for you guys because it's it's it's a storm and you know what's coming and so I would treat it that way. Um just like we would if there was a baby coming or if you knew you were being laid off, that sort of thing. Um uh did you say that you're renting?

>> Yes. >> Okay. You are renting. Okay. So if you were to go, >> let's pick Spain. If you were to go to Spain, I'm guessing you would sell the remainder two cars.

>> And how much would that give you?

>> About 7500 for both of them.

>> Okay, that'd give you another 7500. And then if you were to stop uh just pay minimum payments and stop debt snowballing, how much would you have saved by December to add to the 7500?

Um it to get out of the apartment it's three grand. We'd be breaking our lease.

>> Okay. >> Um and then after that we could probably

save up about 15,000.

>> Another 15. Okay. Um what I would start

doing is to try to and I know that you don't know. You mentioned Spain. So I

would just start there. I would just start gathering as much information as I can. I'd look at where his buddy lives in Spain. What's the cost of living over there?

What's it cost to get a two- room apartment or a one room apartment? What type of job opportunities are transferable that you do here that you could do there? And I do the same thing for Peru, where whatever area of Peru his family is from. Right.

And just start to get as much knowledge and information as you can.

>> Yeah. >> More money, more information will give more peace.

>> Absolutely. So, it is wise to stop paying on the well, just make minimums on the credit cards. >> Yeah. And if this doesn't happen in December, well, now you have a pile of money. Just knock out those credit cards instantly.

>> Okay. >> But if you can approach this with like 25 grand in your pocket, I think that's going to feel really really good. Um, and and to kind of have a checklist of here here's what what we're going to do.

we're going to sell the car and then we're going to do the lease and then we're going to do this and just kind of literally put down a plan of action like document it and document what it would look like going to Spain, document what it would look like going to Peru, all of that. And I think that that's just going to help you feel uber ready for this.

>> And you can use the Every Dollar app, Danny, and and plan all this out. You can make a fake budget of like, okay, here's what our new life could cost us.

Here's what our current life costs us.

And in the meantime, use that budget to create as much margin as you can. Now is not the time to go yolo and life's crazy so let's eat out. >> Now it's how do we use as little of this money as possible to stack it up so that not only can we pay off the credit card debt but we have an emergency fund. We have no debt now starting this new life.

So that's the end goal is can we whatever happens can we restart this process with no debt and an emergency fund. You guys will operate differently no matter what happens. >> Yeah. and and spend some of the things to add to that list would be if you do go to Spain, you're going to likely need some sort of work visa as well and what's the cost for that. So, make sure you're factoring that in as well.

>> That's wild. That's a wild one. Wishing you guys the best. >> All right, Daniel is in New Orleans up next. What's going on, Daniel?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call. So, um I got a question.

So, I've always used uh you guys as like some advice for my kids growing up. I lost my father when I was young and and I've used the principles and teachings that you guys have had and just getting to now adulthood.

>> I love that. That sounds like an adventure for her. Um, well, I mean, I can tell you what I did. My husband and I worked on cruise ships and went to over 92 countries and I had a debit card

and a lot of times I would call them ahead of time and let them know, I'll be out of the country, here's where I'll be visiting. So, my card would work in

those different locations. I never had an issue with them thinking it was fraud, but also because I was traveling,

they knew to be aware that there could be fraud. Um, and it had I had all the

same protections.

>> And another key point here is international fees. And you can avoid that. Our friends at Fairwinds actually, they created a smart bundle for our fans that includes a Fairwind's debit card.

And after watching my video that I did on this topic, they said, "Hey, let's get rid of international transaction fees for all of our users." So she can open up a fair winds account and sort of use that as her, you know, international spending money and keep her home bank account separate and just sort of fund it with how much she needs each month from that. And that'll help protect her, you know, sort of OG account as well. So that could be a great move for her. And

on top of that, they will even wave 10 bucks a month in ATM fees if you're international. So a lot of cool features there. Uh not not intentionally a plug for Fairwinds. They just it happens to be the thing that came to mind of how to solve this.

And for online purchases, there's a great one called privacy.com that allows you to create virtual debit card numbers. So, that's another solution if she's making purchases abroad online. They even can do a physical card as well, but I think fairins would do the trick right now for her.

now with things like Apple Pay.

>> Yes. >> And I try to use the local currency instead of converting cuz that'll actually cost you more to convert to USD. >> But, you know, do the research. Nowadays, it's easier with a smartphone.

That's right. Okay. There's an app for everything. >> That's right.

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>> Jenna is in Seattle up next. Jenna, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi there. Hey. >> So, my question is quick and to the point. Um, should I allow my very

generous boyfriend to pay off some additional debt of mine?

>> Wow. >> Tell us more. What does additional mean?

How much has he paid off so far? Many questions. >> He he paid off uh a personal loan that I

had taken out to do some home repairs

uh about a year and a half or two about a year and a half ago. >> And then about six months ago, he paid off my student loans. >> Oo. How much was the personal loan and how much was the student loans?

>> The personal loan was maybe $15,000

>> and the student loan was probably 30

35,000. >> Oh my. >> So he he's paid off $50,000 worth of debt for you so far, >> right? >> How much more is there to go?

>> Well, I all I have is a car and a home

loan. That's the only other debt that I have. >> Do you guys live in your home?

We don't live together.

>> Okay. >> Uh we uh we maintain separate

households. We've been together for about three years. He's widowed.

>> Widowed. Any kids?

>> Uh we both have kids that are all college age. >> Okay. Uh how old are you guys?

>> In our 50s.

>> Okay. Um >> he's retired. He retired young.

>> Okay. He and his late wife did everything right financially and I'm divorced and so that kind of messed up my uh financial situation. But

>> are you going to marry him?

>> I'm just getting cutting to the chase.

>> We we um we've both decided we don't want to remarry, but we've we've found, you know, we we're committed to each other. Uh >> you'll continue to live in separate households and hopefully be together forever in separate households.

>> Um I don't know. We're we're still figuring that out. >> I'm going to tell you, Jenna, I think this question is more about you than it is about him because >> if you said to me, I this is the one like I I

think we're getting married. I want to be with him. Uh and I think it's happening. I think he's going to pop the question. I would feel less of the way I

feel right now, which is I don't think you need to be accepting these gifts from somebody that you don't think that you're going to be on the long haul with. $50,000 is a lot of money.

>> Well, I think we're going to be in the long haul. We just don't necessarily want to get married. I was in a very abusive marriage. >> True that. >> He had a very long happy marriage, but

um >> True that. But you and I both know long haul doesn't exist without a committed without commitment.

>> And I I didn't hear it. It's like it could be like I I care for him. I love him, but I don't know. It was more like that is fair enough.

>> Uh I don't feel that way, but I can see how it comes across that way.

>> That's that's my only thing. I don't hear me cuz this is on all the radio and all the YouTubes and all the podcast. I think you're a great person. I don't think that you're in any way trying to like scam this guy or anything.

>> Yeah. You're not doing anything wrong. It's on his valition if he wants to spend his money how he so chooses. He could give 50 grand to a charitable organization or gamble in Vegas.

It's his money. He's choosing to help somebody that he loves, which is a very noble thing.

>> I just don't know that >> I would accept such a gift if there if

there wasn't a full commitment there because this is the type of thing that could breed resentment later, I think.

>> Mhm. Right. Couldn't this hang over your head of, hey, I paid off 70 grand of your debt and this is how you >> Could that happen one day?

>> I don't see that happening with him cuz he also pays for we go on a lot of vacations, you know, he pays for everything. He doesn't let me pay for much of anything. Um, he just he has

done well and he >> Yeah, he independently wealthy. Like he's obviously retired. He has a huge nest egg. If he's just willy-nilly paying off debts like this, it sounds like he's doing very well. He's a multi-millionaire is my guess.

>> Well, yes. I Yes.

>> We're very open about about the financial situation. And it's very lopsided. >> What What's his Give me an an estimate.

What's his net worth versus your net worth? >> Um he's in the double digit millions and

I'm in the h less than half a million.

>> Okay. um for you for you and your placement in

this relationship.

I love the idea. I'm not saying that you

need to go back and pay him back the 50,000. I'm not necessarily saying that.

But I don't want you to let him pay your car off. I want you to do that.

>> Okay? >> I want you from this if if you take on debt because you have said, "Hey, we're separate. We live in separate places. We have separate finances and many you're dating like you you guys have maintained your boundaries.

I actually love that for you. Since you're doing that, I would do that in this area as well. And no, it's my debt. I want to pay it.

I think that allows you to maintain a certain amount of independence. And I think it allows you to keep the the >> if this were a marriage, it'd be different, but it's not. So, it allows you to keep the balance of power right where it should be, which is there. No one can say that this guy is taking care of me, that I'm mooching off of him, that I'm living off of him, that I need him.

long term.

>> Yeah. >> What do you think? >> That's kind of how I That's how I feel about it. >> Okay. He um he just Yeah.

>> He's he's just a nice guy. I can sense it. Like I >> He really is. Oh my gosh.

>> And I think you're a nice lady, too. And you're like, "This is great. I think it's probably really great. I I don't sense anything that's off here. I just

>> if I were in your shoes problem to have >> it's not it's not. But I listen, I'll

take it a step further. I hope you guys do commit. Like I hope that you guys find the trust that you need and find the healing that you both need because you both have been through it. I mean, you said he's a widowerower and and you've been through an abusive time. I healing would have to take place in major ways, I think, for both of you to get there. But man, if you can, it it's

such a beautiful thing. >> Yeah. Marriage is not the villain here.

And I know it feels that way because of your past experience, but being married to this guy is going to be light years difference than your last one. Right.

>> Right. >> I can already see that based on the way he's treating you and his generosity.

So, it's not that we're like, "You better get married or else, Jenna." I I just think it adds a different level of commitment. It adds a layer of protection on on his part even though he doesn't really need it financially. But the question to ask yourself is this. Is this help accelerating your own independence or is it replacing it?

>> That's the part that worries us more than anything because what if one day you guys break up and now you were kind of needing him for his income and the lifestyle and now you don't have that.

You don't have your own retirement. So there's also some protections you don't have in that regard. >> Right. George makes a good point and I'll I'll go further on that point which is I I love that the separation that you guys have created because that's just what I think is a normal dating separation and I think that that's good.

But I think if you tie your finances up too much uh in the way of yeah letting him pay major debts there could develop

uh let's say in the future you're starting to notice some things that you're like man I don't know if this guy is the one. when he's done so much for you, it could make you feel like you need to stay with him longer than maybe you would have if these things hadn't been done for you. Does that make sense? Like it could just >> create a cloudy vision there that I I wouldn't want for you.

Um but I don't see that happening.

>> What is your income right now?

Um, my from my primary job, I uh make

about 150 and then I get some of my ex-husband's pension which all goes toward my retirement and then I have some a side gig.

>> Yeah. So, you're good. You got you got money. You've got your own thing.

>> You can pay off this car in a couple of months, it sounds like. >> What's left on the loan?

>> Um, right now about 40.

>> Okay. So, if you took, let's say, four,

five grand a month, you could be done with this in 8 to 10 months,

>> potentially. Yeah.

>> See, there there's my question. >> I'm not putting that much on it, George.

>> If this was only on you, there's no urgency here. You're not changing any behavior that got us here where we went out and bought a, you know, $50, $60,000 car. And that's the part I want you to be good on your own to where you don't need him. And I think it's going to change Jenna.

If she pays off her own car loan, she's going to drive that thing differently than if generous boyfriend swooped in to pay it off. Now she's going car shopping again going, "Woo, what other what other debt can we get in? Let's play this game.

I hope you have a long, wonderful life together. And yes, I hope you get married selfishly.

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And you can do that at ramseyolutions.com/agent to connect with a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Katie is in Sacramento up next.

>> Hi. So, I had a question. I am getting a

about $75,000 workers comp settlement and my parents

want me to save all of it for a down payment on a house and I was wondering if it's valid to take five or 10,000 of that and spend it on my wedding for next year. >> Oh, >> okay. >> Okay. >> What happened with the workers comp situation?

Um, I got injured and yeah, I ended up

getting an attorney and turned into this. So, yeah. >> Are you okay now? Are there any kind of ongoing health? >> I'm getting better. Yeah, I >> I have good in good private insurance.

So, um, yeah, but I'm slowly getting better now. I'm just doing a lot of different treatments. >> And you'll be able to work as you once did?

>> Yes, correct. I start nursing school in the fall, actually. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Um, so you're getting married. Uh,

are your parents helping fund the wedding at all or it's just you and your fiance fitting the bill?

>> So, it's a little bit of both. So, his parents are pitching in a little bit, mine are pitching in a little bit, and then we're also going to have to pay a little bit on our own. >> What's the total budget?

>> I think we're looking at about 15,000.

And I'm thinking we're going to be splitting it three ways.

>> Okay. >> 15, you said?

>> Yes. Okay. So, you you guys to collectively as a couple would owe five grand.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you want to take 5,000 of the 75 and that be your cut?

>> Yes. Correct. >> I mean, I don't I don't see why not. Um,

is there anything else to the equation we need to know about? Do you have a bunch of debt laying around anywhere? It doesn't sound like you do.

>> No, we have no debt. We have paid off vehicles and we currently are living in

a trailer on our my well future in-laws property um to save money.

>> Um I don't I have my bachelor's degree but I don't have any student loans. I have all of it paid off. >> How are you paying for nursing school?

>> It's only about $5,000 because it's through a community college. So my parents are offering to pay for it.

>> They're paying for that. >> I mean I think 5,000 of the 75 is a

reasonable amount. I think the $15,000 wedding in full is a reasonable amount.

>> I'm honestly impressed you can do a wedding for that number in today's America. >> I agree.

>> Yeah, definitely. And I guess my second part to this question is what to do with the rest of the money to help it grow over time until I'm ready to buy a house. >> Yeah. How far away is that purchase, you think? Is it a year, two years, five years? >> About five years.

>> I'm 21 right now. The magic number.

>> Ding ding ding. So the way we look at this is five years is a long-term decision. And so you could invest this money. You could invest it in like a brokerage account, non-retirement, put it in some index funds and let it ride.

And hopefully in 5 years, the reason 5 years is sort of this magic number is because over 5 years you're likely to see some gain in that investment account versus a shorter time period like two to three years. You could see some market dips and you go to pull out that money and it's a smaller amount than you even put in. Mhm. >> That's not the the ideal scenario. So, if that worries you at all, a high yield savings account is still a great option.

You can make over 3%. You know, you can jump on to fairwinds.org/ramsey and open one with the smart bundle and that'll at least help your money grow and not get eaten up by inflation sitting in a checking account. >> Yeah. Would what would you do, George?

Would you do would you invest it or would you hold it your temperament >> at five? If I knew it was five years and I'm not going to get a little, you know, doom scrolling on Zillow and go, "Oh, really? Three years?" then I would be comfortable investing it and you can always contact a Smart Investor Pro on our website to help you invest that wisely. But otherwise, a high yield savings account, no one's going to be mad at you if you do that.

>> N >> Okay. All right. Sounds good. Well, thank you guys so much.

>> Yeah. Good luck with everything. It's a lot of life change. >> That is a lot.

>> So much life left to live.

>> Babies, I tell you. >> Don't you wish you could go back and be 21 and debtree?

If I was 21 and debtree, I wouldn't know how to act. I don't even think I would know how to >> I don't think I can stay that way at 21 with my prefrontal cortex. In fact, I got to go get some debt. I'm itching for some debt. >> Listen, I think I needed to learn my lesson. >> Maybe it was good that I had a lot of >> Some of us need to touch the hot stuff.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> All right. Boy, Mike is in Portland up next. What's going on, Mike?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you for taking my call.

Uh, I've got two questions. one is much more minor than the the other one. Um,

so I'm going to lay down the the sort of groundwork here. So I'm 29 years old.

Uh, I am a nurse and I make pretty good

money. Uh, currently make about 250 a year. >> Whoa. >> As a nurse, >> how >> uh travel? >> I do uh No. No. So luckily uh on the

West Coast we do I'm from Florida uh and we make crap money there. Uh, and we get

paid a whole lot more here on the West Coast. That's that's one of the reasons I came out here. And I do uh I do work a good amount of overtime as well. So, this isn't just me working. >> Is this a specific type of nursing?

>> Um, no. I'm just a nurse in the hospital. Every nurse in my hospital could make that much if they like doctor

money. I'm just impressed.

>> Way to go. >> Well, see, that's the actually part of the problem. I mean, it's a good problem to have, sure, but this is uh this is the the reason I'm calling because

um I like being a nurse. It's great. Uh but I don't want to do this forever. I do want to do more down the line. So, um

I also have uh I've been here for about a year and a half and I've got just a little bit over 200k invested in my um in my brokerage account. >> Mh. >> Um and it's it's been going well. Uh and

really I went into nursing because I wanted to do something else down the line initially. Uh it's basically something uh you can go back to school for. Uh and you essentially are you work in anesthesia. Um those guys make uh much more money than even the 250 I make. Um it's closer to like 350 375.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um but it's a three-year school to go to and most of those schools will either u

make you sign a contract saying you cannot work during that time. And even if they don't make you sign a contract, you really you can't really work in that time. It's you're so busy. It's pretty intense. Yeah. You're really not going to um be able to work very much. So,

initially when I worked in Florida, you know, I was going to make about 60k a year. Um so, that was a pretty easy

thing to pass up for 3 years um to go to

school and make a whole lot more money.

But now >> it's so much more. So >> to give up all this income, >> what would you be earning if you got the degree after 3 years?

>> So pretty pretty reasonably anywhere between 350 and 375. That would be pretty reasonable. >> And what's this program cost?

>> Um so that's the other thing. Um the

cost of the program usually about

130 to 160 depending on the school, but

you also have to live, right? So you also most people have to take loans out to it's it's it's very similar to medical school because most people go to med medical school they don't have um a significant amount of money to even live off of. >> Well you've got the money invested to pay for the cost of the education but you're you're not quite the problem would be what would you live off of for three years? >> How much do you need to live for a year if you if you were just acting like a broke college student while you're in this program?

I invest my money very very aggressively. Um probably uh um probably

maybe like 3,000 bucks a month.

>> So you could live off let's say 50 grand a year you could live. >> Oh for sure. >> So you need 150,000 >> plus the amount for the program which is 300. You currently have 200. Here's a game plan. I would just work for another 6 to 12 months and save up another 100k and then you've got a nice little parachute to not work for three years

and cash flow this entire program and you will likely be the only person to graduate from that program completely debtree.

>> So here's the other option. I think that's a that is one of the ones that I was one of the options I was thinking about. Um but the other option I thought about is why not just keep doing what I'm doing. Uh and what I mean by that is if I were to keep doing what I'm doing for about another five years, >> um I would reasonably I mean, you know, assuming the market goes okay, uh I I invest in very very like very safe.

>> We got 5 seconds, Mike. Spit it out.

>> You want to retire early? What?

>> Uh no, I don't want to retire early. I would just like to work for five more years. Uh in have about a million bucks invested and then instead of going the anesthesia route, just go be a nurse practitioner. Yeah, >> my brother does that. That's a great field as well. I think either way you're good. Follow your heart here. Do what you feel is right.

The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. Out of control private student loans can make it feel like you're stuck financially, but Yi helps borrowers explore refinancing with low fixed rates and payments that make sense for their budget. Visit visit yrefi.com/ramy to learn more. That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

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>> All right, today's question comes from Travis in Maryland. He says, "I'm debtree and I've built a successful career making over $150,000 at age 28. I

will soon be marrying my fiance who is graduating from medical school with $475,000 in student loans."

>> She seems flippant about this amount of debt when I bring it up. While the amount stresses me out, I've never had any debt because I paid for college, vehicles, and etc. out of pocket. How can I communicate to her the importance of getting this paid off once we're married? >> Once we're married?

>> Oh,ayy.

Okay. >> I wouldn't wait till then, bud.

>> I know. Cuz I'd want to show and prove.

I'd be like, "Show me that you agree with this sentiment by starting to pay off some of this debt on your own fiance." >> Yeah. Not being aligned on your values around money is one of the biggest red flags. >> It's a red flag. Big flag.

>> You've got to get that part dialed in before you get married. >> Yeah. The fact that she seems flippant about it specifically is what would give me a little bit of pause here. Um >> which can we be honest?

Most people who went to medical school and went half a million dollars into debt are flippant because either they're in denial or it's monopoly money to them >> because they're like, "Well, it'll just take me a lifetime to pay this off." Yeah, I want I have a couple of questions. I wish you'd called in, Travis, because I I want to know when is she graduating and I want to know how much time and when you're getting married so I can understand the time frame.

as much as she can begin starting to pay these off now while she's working. Uh

and then once I again, I don't know the timeline.

>> She's graduating. We don't know when. We don't know when she'll have a job, what residency looks like, all of that. So this could be a long journey before she's making real money.

>> And so if they're married, it's basically it's Travis's problem now.

That's right. So he's worried understandably about taking on a half million dollars of debt. >> And if she's not on board with him going, you know, full force paying off minimum payments and he's like, "We got to clean this up before we get a house." Well, there's going to be a lot of fights. >> They got to have this conversation. This is a conversation that you're not going to want to have, but you need to have.

And you have to have the conversation

and not try to manipulate the outcome for it to be what you want simply because you think you want to marry this person. You you need to go where the facts lead, my friend. >> Yeah. And I would get to the bottom of why she's flipping about it and do it calmly.

You don't need to be, you know, defensive and instigating and yelling, but just say, "Hey, I want to know why are you so cavalier and nonchalant about this? Like, this is a lot of money." Yeah. And you might need to help show her that with some math and what a monthly budget would look like trying to pay off half a million dollars in student loans. >> And she's going to go, "Oh, making 60 in residency for 5 years.

This is going to be a tight life and it's going to delay our ability to buy a home and go on vacations and upgrade the cars and all the things you want to do once you're married." >> That's true. >> And so, if you guys can at least get on the same page of here's the game plan once we're married, here's how we're going to attack this debt, then I would move forward. But I would not wait until you're married to have that discussion. >> I would not.

And I want to let's talk about this for a a tad bit longer because I think this is important. So if you're dating someone and you want to start having conversations about money, the first thing you're just trying to learn is what their philosophy is around debt and spending. And I think the best way to do that is to simply float a question out there and listen for the response. Don't start by saying your point of view.

If you have a sense of what they believe, sometimes you can kind of veer your answer towards theirs.

>> There's a little bit of fake it till you make it >> a little bit. Yeah. And you don't And with this subject, you don't want that.

So, it would be as simple as me being like, "So, George, you know, so we've never talked about this before, like what's your philosophy on money? Like, what do you think about money?" And you just you're just quiet and you just listen. Really? What do you think about debt? Debt is fascinating to me. what do you think about it? And if he's like, well, you know, if you leverage it the right way, uh, you know, learn and I would that night I would just everything would be like, oh, that's so cool. Huh?

You know, >> does he ask you the question back?

>> Be way like these are all >> Does she shut down when you bring it up now? It's something we got to dig into.

What's what's behind that? And it might be something from her childhood or how her parents handled money. Who knows?

Shame, guilt, baggage. But you got to deal with this stuff before you put that ring on it. >> Yeah. There's got to be like three levels that you got to get to.

Number one is just you learning. Number two is are they asking you, are they interested in your opinions on the matter? And number three, maybe they shut down the first few times, but if you go in there for a third try, is it still lock and key or are you able to see a little bit more light every time you ask? Cuz if you are, that's a good sign.

>> Yeah. And the bad stuff is just going to be amplified once you're married.

Once you can really let your hair down.

>> Yeah. It doesn't get easier simply because there's a ring on your finger.

Yeah, please. Good luck, Travis. Wish you the best. Terry is in Boise up next.

What's going on, Terry?

>> I I am calling uh to get you guys'

opinion about uh what constitutes

a valid emergency to go into safety

funds.

>> Do you guys disagree on this?

>> Uh vehemently.

>> Oh, wow. What do you Okay. What do you think constitutes as a financial emergency?

>> Um things like uh well, so I've I've

been on a long-term job search and so that's adding to my wife's stress about money. Um so that in and of itself is

kind of an emergency, which is I've tried to include in the conversation.

um her take-home pay is about $3,800 a month and we have been using every

dollar and um been living on a a very

declared budget. And so when things like, you know, holes in the shoes um or uh

prescription contacts uh for our kids or

a dentist or >> uh car repair, more like kind of preventative maintenance. >> Yeah. >> Care a lot of times.

>> She thinks that's an emergency.

>> Put us over They put us over the $3,800.

And we even I actually even know pretty much the exact amount that we should be

supplementing the monthly income by about $300ish dollar because of how how

responsible we're being. Um but uh she

is just very fearful of of the savings

going away um because the job search has taken so long. >> Are you guys living off of savings because of you not having income?

>> No. No. No. Oh, we're we're living off of uh her income. So, the take home pay.

>> How much is in savings?

>> Uh 40,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> Which is about >> Yeah. >> And you guys don't have any debt?

>> None. No, we just finished um

we went back to uh Financial Peace

University through our church >> um last year to get rid of medical bills and tax issues that I had from my uh

from my company that has closed.

>> Okay, way to go. Well, you guys are in a better financial position than you think, especially once you get some income in the door. How long have you been going without income on your side?

Um almost a year.

>> Okay. What? That feels too long to >> zero income, zero work, zero side gigs.

>> Um I have been applied to everything. So

I'm a sales engineer in industrial automation. Um there's not a lot of that here. Um, a lot of the a lot of the jobs

that I've applied for like

at the nurseries or just kind of like

retail jobs, they kind of don't understand what I'm doing there. I' They've actually made comments about like this job's for high schoolers kind of thing. >> Sure. >> Um, because long >> That's okay if they make those comments. >> I said that I told them I'm in the middle of a career change. It's fine.

Uh-huh. >> Um it it's been confusing. It's been a little rough. Um >> cuz you're saying 300 bucks would solve this per month.

>> Yes. Yeah. And we have the budget history to show that. >> So 4,100 bucks is really what it should be. If she's taking home 38, she needs to be taking home 41 or you guys need to be creating that level to cover all the bills. And so I'll I'll say this. Here's what constitutes an emergency. Is it unexpected? Is it urgent? Is it necessary?

If it's not those things, then we know, all right, this really was just poor planning. Let's add a syncing fund line item in the budget for car maintenance, for contact lenses, cuz we know that's going to come up every few months. That will solve a lot of these problems. But I think she's really stressed cuz you haven't had a job in a year. >> Any job. Any job.

All the jobs make a job.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

We've got open phones at88255225.

You jump in, join the conversation about your life and your money. Doug is in Charleston, South Carolina up next.

What's happening, Doug?

>> Doug, are you with us? Did we lose you?

>> Yeah. No, I got you.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Well, I'm 50 years old.

>> You said 50 >> currently. Yes, 50.

>> Okay, >> that's right. >> And I retire early. Um, I'm debtree.

I've got $2.2 million saved up and I'm

staying hort.

>> Sorry, what was that last part? Your phone's breaking up on us. Try speaking directly into it.

So, you 2.2 million and then what?

>> I want to do a 72T retirement plan.

>> Okay. And what's your expenses?

>> Do that.

>> I don't have any bills. Everything I got paid for. Um >> I'm sorry. What? It'd be like much everything I have is paid for.

>> You don't have any bills? >> My house? >> No, sir. >> Well, how does that work? >> Property tax and insurance.

>> Cell phone and light bill and stuff like that, but not not bills. Bills, you know what I mean? No car payments. No.

>> Sure. But I'm talking I'm talking about your I mean, you don't need eat.

>> Well, other than that, obviously, but other than that, bills.

>> Okay. cuz I'm thinking like health insurance, life insurance, car insurance, homeowners insurance, property taxes, groceries, eating out, subscriptions. You got none of that?

>> Well, yes, we have that. I haven't figured that up exactly. I'm guessing around 4,000 a month.

>> Okay. >> Maybe five. >> So, to run your house, five grand a month, 60 grand take-home pay would cover you every year.

>> Yes, I would think so. >> Okay.

Who else is involved in this picture?

>> Just my wife.

>> Okay. And is she working or is she retired?

>> No, she's a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. How old are the kids?

>> They're grown and gone. >> Oh, so she's no longer She's a stay-at-home wife now. >> That's correct. I'm sorry. Yes. >> Okay, cool. I was like, boy, man, there's no kids here. This is a sweet gig. All right, so she's You both want to retire. Are you both good with this goal or is there sort of an encore career on the horizon for you that you want to pursue?

>> Well, I I I do some pressure wash on the side now um that I would probably continue to pursue and and I guess the re one of the reasons why I'm calling is to kind of help clarify it for her and

me where she's not nervous and I'm not

nervous about doing it.

>> Have you guys ever worked with a financial adviser?

>> We do. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Have you run these numbers by them to see the projections and all the whatif scenarios?

>> I have a team's meeting with um with my financial advisor Monday, >> but I wanted to get I want to get

>> your opinion as well.

>> I appreciate that. >> I just figured the more opinions I get Yeah. >> the better. I've listened to you for years. >> You're in a great spot. If you're completely debtree at 50 with $2.2 2 million and you have 60 grand in expenses every year. That tells me you're you're in good shape to do this.

Um that's why I was asking about those caveats. Are there any upcoming expenses? Do the kids need to save for college? You've got a paid for house, all of that. Where where is this 2.2 million sitting? >> Yeah. Is it Roth or is it traditional funds? >> Um most of it's in in a 401k, but about

seven years ago, they opened up a portion in our 401k to put it in Roth.

And then I have some I also have a Roth for me and for my wife outside of my

401k plan with my financial advisor.

>> How much do you guys have in cash? >> Another two point um readily available cash probably about 50. >> Okay. Has your financial advisor talked about having some cash reserves or bonds or a bond tent something like that to help preserve your nest egg?

>> No, sir. They haven't. >> Okay. That would be something I would ask about. Those are the kinds of things where I want to know every scenario.

Let's say the market was down for 3 years. How would you guys make it without depleting the nest egg at the worst time? Those kinds of scenarios.

And if you can, you know, dot the eye and cross the tea seven different ways, then I'm going, all right, green lights, go for it.

>> Okay. >> And you can also try it for a year. And if you're like, hey, the portfolio can sustain this. We've enjoyed this. Then you kind of know. And if not, you're only 51 by then and you're a smart guy.

You can always go back to work and make some money, right?

>> Well, yeah.

Where I'm at is is a rather large steel mill. And it's it I could probably end up getting a job back there eventually, but it's it's very hard on the body in the deep south in a steel mill in the summertime. So, I

don't know that I'd be wanting to go back there. And I get what you're going to say next. You're going to say, "You don't have to go back to a steel mill. could find other things to do and I I understand that but I'm just trying to

travel do some fun stuff now instead of work all the time. >> Sure. I mean the at the rate you're talking about to take out enough money now you're going to pay taxes if it's on the traditional side. So the other pieces of homework I would talk to your adviser about is Roth conversions and

then also the other pile of money outside of your retirement which is locked up. And again, you mentioned that the 72T, which can be a tool to access

that retirement fund early, but I would try to let that money grow and keep compounding before you access it. So, if you have other money, you could use. And that might mean you work for a little bit longer, stack up some cash, maybe get a year of expenses under your belt, and let that money grow for another year.

But, I think sitting with that financial adviser and going, "Hey, I need a final gut check. Show me every projection possible to make me feel really good about this." But you're talking about, you know, maybe a 3 3 and 12% withdrawal

rate, which if you look at any every financial planner would say, you're good. You're never going to run out of money if you do it that way.

>> Okay? >> But the question is long-term care, the crazy health stuff that could come up, big expenses that come up. That's the kind of stuff I want you to be ready for in case you go, "Man, I'd love to buy a car, but it feels like I shouldn't." I don't want you to have a a sort of a limited retirement because you're scared to spend money because you're not sure if you're going to run out. And that's why I would have a lot of confidence going in.

>> Okay. >> But I appreciate it. >> You've done really well, man. As long as you're, you know, lifestyle doesn't inflate like crazy. Yeah. >> You got a green light for me.

>> Let us know how it goes. I wouldn't want to be in that steel mill for a single day, Jade. I don't think I'd make it.

>> No. Like, no.

>> I wouldn't make it through the audition.

Hey, pick up that p. Nope. He's not.

>> They would just look at a photo of me and go, "She's not >> she can't do it." >> Well, you know, especially in the trades, it is when when a job is hard on your body, it's like you're in the NFL.

Like, you can't do this for 30 years.

And so, I totally understand. I also just go I've seen a lot of people follow the FIRE movement which is financial independence retire early and this is not a similar situation but they stack up a lot of money aggressively over a shorter period of time and they basically burn themselves out to the point of exhaustion panic attacks in order to retire early >> to do what?

>> To do what? And so I always tell them what are you retiring to instead of from? I think it's and Dave and I had this conversation the other day on the air. I think the word retire when you're

that young, I think what you really want is work optional.

>> Much better phrase. >> Do you know what I mean? It's that and that way it's like I may not want to go to my 9 toive job Monday through Friday, but if it's the right type of work and it's the right hours and it's on my terms, yeah, I'd be willing to do the thing I love and still make money from it. And I think that's a probably what most people are after.

I don't think most people just want to sit and do nothing. >> Yeah.

>> And I think you just that'll that will lead to an early death if that's all you do. And trust me, I love bingo and Price is right more than anybody. >> Well, options are what people want. They want the option to say not today.

>> Freedom. That's what you're after.

>> Mhm.

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Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseyssolutions.com/insurance.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Before the break, we were talking to Doug and he was asking, "Can I retire early at 50 years old? I got 2.2 million in retirement accounts. I got 50K in cash." And he said he was going to use the 72 uh T rule to do it.

So, we just want to take a moment to help our listening audience understand what that is, cuz they're probably going, "Is this a life hack? Is this a loophole?

And so it's how can I get at this money without being penalized for not being retirement age >> cuz the IRS normally will charge you a 10% penalty if you pull money from that 401k or IRA before age 59 and a half. So

section 72T of the tax code is the exception and lets you avoid that penalty. But there's uh some >> fine print red tape and stipulations.

>> Oh, you love that. You love fine print.

>> I love the fine print. So you This is You can only do this if you agree to take what is called substantially equal periodic payments, SEP, from the account. So think of it like you're making a deal with the IRS. They're saying, "Hey, you can have your money early, but you have to take a fixed amount on our schedule, not yours.

>> And you're locked in for five years to that schedule." >> Yeah. It's five years or a 59 and a half, whichever is longer. So in Doug's case, you're talking n and a half years of making sure that you can live off of this exact payment. And so that would that's part of the risk I was talking about where you got to make sure your eyes are dotted, tees are crossed before you just go, "Oh, cool.

There's a loophole. I can do it." >> Well, where people get hung up sometimes is they know, "Okay, I won't be charged the 10% early withdrawal, but they forget that they're still going to have to pay income taxes on the >> on the tradition." Yeah, because it's traditional. And here's the crazy part.

single payment you've already taken, plus interest on all of it. The IRS does not forgive uh honest mistakes here.

It's not there's no, "Oh, my bad." >> Yeah. >> And so that's why I'm not a fan of this.

>> It's kind of a last resort option, I would say. >> Yeah. And this is So if you're wondering, okay, well, George, how can I access money earlier? How do I retire before 59 and a half if I so choose? And the much better way is to create what's called a bridge account. So, this is where you just open a non-retirement brokerage account. You can still invest in index funds and mutual funds within that. >> And there's no penalties.

>> That's right. >> You'll pay taxes on the gains of that >> either long-term or short-term.

Hopefully long-term because that'll be a whole lot cheaper. And that way you can access that money until you can access the retirement account. So, think about if he had a million in a bridge account on top of his 2 million. Well, now he's not even touching that retirement account. >> He's completely in control. >> It is just growing for 10 more years and he has this million-doll bridge account to live off of in the meantime. And he'll pay some capital gains on that.

But there's uh there's some really cool tax planning you can do to basically pay no taxes. >> Yeah. >> If you're married filing jointly, get the standard deduction. You can basically take out 130 grand taxree.

>> I love that. >> So, a lot of cool things there. Again, this is why you want to have a good financial adviser in your corner. And if you want to get connected to one, jump on to ramiesolutions.com, click on smartvester pro and they will nerd out 10x what I could do on this show.

>> That was a good time. I hope you enjoyed that. If you didn't fall asleep at the wheel by now, hopefully. Uh, all right, Jade. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that was built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And we're going to break down some of the most asked questions of the week. We had a lot of questions. Look at this. around saving for retirement, paying off credit card debt, but the most asked question was around zerobased budgeting.

>> My favorite, the main question, how do I create my very first zerobased budget?

George, how do I do it? >> This is great. So, the core idea with the zerobased budget is that every dollar gets a job before the month begins. So, if you brought in $5,000, we

need to allocate every dollar of that 5,000. So, even if you have 3,000 in bills, well, if you don't make a plan for that other 2,000, it will disappear into Door Dash and entertainment and whatever else is going on in your life.

So, you start by writing down your monthly take-home pay. You can enter this into every dollar in the income section, each paycheck >> and start with what hits your bank account after taxes. >> Yeah. And we like to say after that, once you start and go through and start your expenses, let the first line item of the budget be giving.

It just puts your heart in the right place. Set aside 10% for church, charity, general giving, whatever it is. That's the first thing on your budget. And then from there, go on to the most important four walls is what we call them.

Your food, your utilities, your shelter, your transportation. And I'd say in a close fourth and fifth, it's probably insurance and daycare. >> Yes. And then of course debt.

If you've got some consumer debt, we're going to list that as the minimum payments.

It will break it out by smallest balance to largest balance. And then you're going to subtract until you hit zero. So if there's money left over, let's throw it at the debt if you got debt. If you're trying to save up the emergency fund, any leftover money goes to the emergency fund.

>> Love that. >> And you know, some people might go, "Well, Jade, I'm in the red." >> That's okay. >> My expenses are 3500, but I'm only taking in three grand. >> Yeah, that's a learning experience there.

And that's when it's time to start cutting back. >> You should say, "Glad I did a budget to figure this out that I'm 500 bucks in the hole every month." >> Yeah. And you can look for areas to cut back. For most of us, it's areas of subscriptions, going out to eat, uh self-care.

Those types of areas are the areas that we can cut back. And if you look and you go, there's no place for me to cut back. I am then now we know we need to add a side hustle to the mix, which you can do. But just know it takes about 3 months to really get in the in the flow of budgeting and to really create a budget that's going to work for you and your family.

>> That's right.

You can get started based on your specific income and expenses. It'll walk you through it just like we would on the show. Go to ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Kayana is in Seattle

up next. Kayana, did I get that right?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Crisis averted. How can I help today?

>> Thanks for the call and thanks for answering. Um, so my boyfriend and I are trying to figure out a plan for finances so we both can be on the same page in the future. Um, what can we do right now to set up for success? And what would the alternative be to building up credit? >> Great questions. How old are you two?

>> Um, I'm 18. He's 19. I'm almost 19.

>> How long have you guys been together?

>> Um, officially 6 months. Wow.

>> So, we've known each other for a while.

>> Okay. And what have the money conversations been like thus far? It sounds like you guys have talked about this a little bit. >> Yeah, we're all we're both a little over planners. So, um, we're just thinking and talking and >> trying to figure out, um, just like how

we would do things, if we're going to be using credit cards or not, cuz I was raised without like no credit cards are a bad thing. My parents and I my parents are both debtree except for the house. I still remember when they cut up the credit card. >> I love that. >> So, is there some tension? Because he's like, "What? That's crazy. Like, you got to have a credit card." >> Actually, there's no tension, which is great. We're >> good. He's like, "Cool. Yeah, I think credit cards are are not a healthy tool either.

>> Yeah, he's not he thinks that they could possibly be used smart, but um but we

both don't have enough information to

>> figure it out together.

>> Well, I think there's two I think there's two paths that we need to cover

on this. And one is do you even need credit? Like is credit necessary to your life? And then the other side of this is, and I'll probably start here and work backwards with George, which is, >> okay, >> please, please, please, at no point if you guys, even if you decide we don't care, we don't agree with what Ramsay says about not needing credit, please never co-sign together.

You're >> Yes, >> you're dating. who knows if you'll get married one day, but if he's thinking debt could be used in a good way sometimes, like maybe getting a car note, I cannot tell you how many times people call in here and they've co-signed a loan with somebody that they were once dating >> cuz they wanted to help them >> because they wanted to help. They wanted to build credit.

her into this car that they've co-signed on. Right? So, the first part of the conversation is whatever you do, please don't cosign. If there's a co-signer needed, it's because that person would not be approved for debt on their own because they're clearly broke.

>> And you cosign with somebody. You know this, I'm saying it for those listening. If you cosign with somebody, it goes the opposite way. You're on the hook for the entire balance.

>> The other piece of this, you're talking about how do we build credit without a credit card? Well, then I go, what are you trying to build credit for? >> For a car loan. Well, I thought we agreed. We're not going into debt for a car. We're going to save up, pay cash.

So, all the things that you think I need credit for that. I would question it and go, do you, though? And I walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. So, I'm going to send this to you as a gift because if you guys read this together, you're going to be reading off the same sheet of music.

You'll be totally aligned. You'll know how to communicate about it, how to navigate life without a credit card, without credit. And I walk you through every piece of it in the book and the credit score chapter. So, hang on the line. We're going to send you Breaking Free from Broke. If you want the audio book, just let our phone screener know.

They'll get you that as well. I wish you guys the best. Green flag so far with this relationship.

Hey, George Camel here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what?

Normal isn't so great when it comes to your job either. Normal is staying in a job you hate, dreading Mondays, and working for people you don't even like.

Sound familiar? Well, the good news is you can break free from normal because Ramsay Solutions is hiring. And we refuse to settle for the ordinary. In fact, we are anything but normal and we are proud of it. And right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. So head over to ramseyolutions.com/careers and apply today.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We talk a lot about offense on the show, how to build wealth, but you also have to protect it as you build it. That's the defense side, and that's where insurance comes in. The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wealth if disaster strikes. And our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So you can take it at ramiesolutions.com/checkup for free. Get that coverage checkup.

Find out if you've got the protection you need. Mary is in Cincinnati up next.

Mary, welcome to the show.

>> Hey George and Jade, I'm so excited to talk to you guys. >> We're excited to talk to you. What's going on?

So my question is my husband and I would like some advice of what to do in our situation specifically about paying off our mortgage. So we are in the process of adopting a baby and we would love to be completely debtree before the baby comes. We have no debt except $16,000

that's left on our mortgage.

>> Wow. >> And we're wondering if when we Yes.

We've been working so hard and listening to your show and just so inspired by all the callers. it it's really motivated us to get to this place and we're excited where we're at. >> Um, but we're wondering if when we get

down to the last 8,000 on the mortgage if we can just use part of our emergency fund to pay it off because >> we're just itching.

>> Would it be taking it from 6 months to three months?

>> It would. So, we have $18,000 in an

emergency fund currently. We have $36,000 in an adoption fund, which we think would cover the adoption plus time of me being off work, but we're thinking of throwing a little bit extra towards that. Um, we make about 75,000 a year

combined and our house is worth 275.

>> Wow. >> Awesome. What's the mortgage payment, the principal and interest part?

Um, so we owe about $1,000 $1,63

a month and we're down to less than I

think it's like $39 in interest.

>> Wow. >> 300 towards escrow and then the rest is

on the mortgage. Yeah. >> So you would free up just about 1,100 bucks a month.

>> It would, which is why we're so ready to

be done. And >> yeah, I would I would look at our savings too short.

>> Yeah. But what will your budget look like without a mortgage payment? I would calculate that out for a month and then go minimum 3 months and knowing you're going to stack it right back up.

>> Mhm. >> So that freedom mortgage payment is just going to move to the emergency fund until you're back to 6 months, which is probably the better move as you adopt this uh this sweet child.

>> Yes. Okay. >> How sure are you with the 36 grand will cover everything? That's my only question mark because I know these can always feel be more expensive than you intended them to be and kind of drag out longer.

>> Yes, we've already paid some towards the fund or towards the adoption. So, um it

would just be if it would be extra, it would be cutting into like my time off of work. Um would be cut maybe a little

bit shorter. But we are pretty confident

that we'd have uh maybe like 10 to 12 uh

still for me to have time off.

>> Okay. >> So, that that's covering the gap in income without dipping into the emergency fund is what you're saying.

>> Correct. Oh, I love this. You guys are such planners. Way to go.

>> So great. >> Thanks. My husband is >> Oh, we lost you. She was about to say my I'm guessing she was going to say my husband's so excited. >> Yeah, they've done such a good job.

>> Just know I didn't hang up on you, Mary. That was on your own valition. >> On $75,000 a year to save 36,000 for an

adoption, $18,000 for an emergency fund.

>> Knock the mortgage down. >> Knock the mortgage down. Rockstar.

>> That is impressive. Don't tell me you can't do it cuz Mary just proved you wrong. Yeah, I'm inspired. >> She's making us all look bad out here.

>> And what a noble. You know what it is?

They have a big why. >> Yeah, they do. >> They want to adopt that baby. And that will, if you can put the blinders on and focus, you're like, I don't need all these other expenses and subscriptions and the vacations.

I just want to bring that baby home and man, if we can bring this baby into the into the world debtree, >> even better. >> That's a great way. >> But yeah, that for the teaching on that, we always say you want 3 to 6 months in the emergency fund. And people go, "Well, can I scale down the emergency fund >> temporarily?" So my gut is always if you can at least keep three months in there >> knowing you got a new budget.

You don't have a mortgage payment. So that also changes the numbers how much you need in that emergency fund. >> Then I go, "All right, go for it. Just know you got to you want to make sure that you don't have an emergency as soon as that house is paid off." >> Right?

And on the bigger scheme of things, when people are deciding whether I should have three months or six months, is there a wrong or a right? You do want to look at certain factors that can help you determine that. uh are there two incomes coming in or are there one? If you're a one-inccome family, in my in my opinion, you got to have six months.

Like there's just a little bit more risk there, therefore you want a little bit more of a cushion there. Uh what's the health situation of everybody? Are you guys healthy or are there ongoing health concerns? That's another one.

If everybody's healthy and there's two incomes, 3 months might be all right. But if Do you see what I'm saying? >> Stability of the jobs and income. If you're a teacher and a UPS employee, well, that's pretty stable.

If you're in commission sales and you're not sure what the income's going to be, I would lean towards 6 months. >> I I got to tell you, ever since 19, I almost am always on board with 6 months no matter what.

Yeah. And here's the thing, usually one spouse wants it to be more than the other. And I'm not going to stereotype, but generally the women have the security gland flaring up going, "Hey, we need a little more security." And the guys are like, "Nah, we're fine. Let me get 10 bucks in the account. >> I can make that h I can make that work for another week. >> And so I always lean on the spouse that wants the bigger one. Go with that answer. You're not You're never going to regret having 6 months.

>> No, I don't >> instead of three, having more peace, more security. And the honest truth is that baby step three is one of the hardest baby steps. >> It's it is a sleeper. People sleep on how difficult because you've come out of baby step two and you think that you're about to have like this major relief of

life is gonna get easy and then you're like, "Oh, holy crap. It's >> this is this has got a level of challenge to it as well. >> You don't get the excitement of knocking out a debt, freeing up a payment." >> That's what it is. >> The gazelle intensity like you still need the gazelle intensity without all of the fanfare.

Well, it's what you described earlier, which is the why kind of gets hidden when you're paying off the debt. The why is right in front of your face. You're like, I see you, Sally May, and I hate your face. And so, you're ready to like make the debt payment.

When you're saving money, you feel good about the fact that you're paying yourself, but it just doesn't have the same >> you got you got to manufacture the tenacity. >> Well, it's like paying into an insurance plan. and you're like, "Great. I'm glad this is helping to cover me in case of something happens, but this is not exciting to pay for.

>> I don't love this. >> Nobody's stoked to pay for their auto insurance for the year, but you're real happy you have it, >> right?" And once you do see that 6 months sitting in the account, you're like, "This is you become." >> What's the guy? Smeaggle from Lord of the Rings.

>> Smeaggle. Gollum.

>> Isn't it like with a smegle, wasn't it?

>> Gollum. Smeaggle. Okay. >> Nobody knows.

My precious is what I'm getting at. It becomes your precious. >> Once you build it, you're like, >> man's name. Do you guys know what it is in the audience? Is it >> I think is it both? It's like pre and post. Smeaggel versus Gollum. Okay, we got there. It's the same person.

>> First of all, let's let's forget this conversation ever happened that I referenced Lord. >> We'll edit this out cuz the nerds are going to come after you in the comments and flame you as the kids say. You're going to get roasted. But it is true.

Once you build the emergency fund, it's like you built that sand castle and it took you forever and you're like, "Nobody touched this thing." >> Yeah. >> Nobody touched it. >> And even a real emergency, you're like, "No, it's not an emergency." And you'll do everything you can to keep >> Well, what's funny is once you build it, you stop having the same level of emergencies >> because they don't feel like emergencies. The flat tire is now just an inconvenience instead of a >> Yeah.

Cuz at that point, I also think your money management skills have reached an all-time high. And so, you're just you've become such a better planner. You can look at life and go, I see this coming and I'm going to plan for it. I know it.

Right. And I think that all of that just comes with time and financial literacy and >> and you get better at maintaining the things you do have, which causes less emergencies. Yeah. >> So, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I don't need to tap into it. >> All right, George. Inquiring minds want to know. >> Uh-oh. >> Do you Do you ever just have times where you're like, I just I like I feel good about keeping a little more than 6 months. >> Oh, 100%. And my wife is that way.

>> Like whatever my number is, she's like, double it. I'm like, >> okay, fine. And you know what? It's sort of like a life fund of whatever if we

want to buy something, a bigger purchase or an opportunity comes our way or a generosity opportunity. >> You have the money. >> We have the money. So, it's like you have an emergency fund for your emergency fund. I love the feeling of that. >> Can't beat it.

If you're a business owner who's serious about growth, you've got to be at Entree Leadership Summit 2027. Summit is our

world-class leadership conference where you will learn from the people who have influenced the way we lead at Ramsey.

You'll also connect with like-minded business owners who are facing the same challenges as you. To get your tickets for May 2027, go to entreeleership.com/summit.

Our scripture of the day, Galatians 1:10.

Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. Amen to that.

>> PT Barnum said, "Money in some respects is like fire. It is a very excellent servant, but a terrible master." >> Ooh, it's good.

>> Said the circus guy. A lot of fire.

>> He knows a lot about that. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Erica is up next in Dallas. What's going on, Erica?

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. Okay. So, I'll get right into it. Uh my husband and I were both 31 and we've been married for three years. We're currently in baby step two and we're about $10,000 away from uh becoming debtree. So, I know we're not quite ready to purchase our first home.

Uh we currently are living in my mother-in-law's house and we only pay like the household bills and last month she told us that she will be selling her current house and moving back here and

she wants us to stay. And I know that over the years she has said that she wants to leave this house to my husband upon her passing. Um so I guess my

question is is it financially wise to

stay in the house although it's legally not ours or would it be um better for us

to just save up and buy our own home once we're ready? I totally

um I I understand the the the

allure of thinking, oh, we could just stay in this house. It's going to be his one day anyway, but the reality is you'd be living with the mother-in-law. And I just think that something like that would drive a person crazy after a while. Um and the truth is that was never your goal.

You never sat down with your husband and said, "You know what would be great? let's live with your mother-in-law for, you know, maybe another 20 years until she passes and then we'll get the house. Like, that wasn't the goal. The goal is let's save up and buy a house of our own.

So, I think that you should continue down the path of your original goal.

circumstances change and she moves back in, that just means you've got to move out sooner and maybe you rent for a while someplace else. Um, but don't let that affect what you initially set out to do.

Okay. Yeah, we um I'm currently in

nursing school and I should be graduating next May and I I already have a job lined up. So, I know that we'll be able to start saving at least a year and

a half after I graduate for us to buy our own house. So, do you think while

I'm still in school, we should just go ahead and move out? Cuz she'll be moving in by like the end of the summer.

>> I mean, go ahead, George. >> Well, I'm I'm just curious. So, she's moving back into her house that you guys are living in, correct?

>> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. What would rent cost you if you moved to a reasonable place nearby?

>> Yeah. So, we do have two dogs and they'll they're coming with us. Um, so with the yard, I'm looking at anywhere between 21 to 25 >> 2500 bucks a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what what's the current household income with you in nursing school? Uh my husband, he works two jobs

and he brings in 65 a year. Um and I

only work like 3 days out of the month.

So I only bring in like a thousand.

>> Okay. 65 a year. So is he taking home like 4K a month or so?

>> Um with overtime he can bring in five.

>> Okay. So definitely not renting a $2,500 house. That's out of the picture. That's 50% of your take-home pay.

>> So the truth is we might need to sacrifice for a little while longer. and live with mother-in-law unless there's some real issues here. Are there things where you're like, I cannot do this. We need to figure something else out.

>> No, she's um she's like a second mom to me. I love her to death. And her being here um doesn't bother me at all. It's

just the um my husband, he doesn't want us to

stay for a house. like he likes the idea of being able to live here and this home

becoming his one day. So, I guess that's like really where we're not seeing eye to eye. Whereas, I don't mind living here for the next five years is that if

we need to save up or whatever, but >> if you want to stay there because you love it, that's one thing. But if you're staying there with the promise of one day this will be mine, I don't love that because there's so much life that can happen in between. And we've heard all those stories. mom takes out a reverse mortgage because she ends up broke in retirement and has a health crisis and now this house is not what you thought.

Now there's a giant loan attached to it, >> you know. And so that's where I go. I wouldn't count my my uh my chickens before the what is it? Don't count the eggs before the chicken hatches. Something like that. >> Count your chickens before they hatch. I I I don't like this idea either. Um, and

I'll I'll say this and I'll I'll let it ride, but I understand that sometimes

culturally people have different ways of living and there like family generational living is more um more the norm and I understand that. However, just from a marriage point of view, I I I tend to believe

that marriages need their space to grow and become what they're going to be. And it's just very hard to do that in a contained environment with mom there, especially when it's long term. I I just think you guys are so you you're young, but you're old to be living with a parent, right? You're young in your marriage, but you're also 31. It's not like you're 21. So, there's part of me that's like, hey, be 31 and use your

income and understand that, hey, if we want to be able to have this type of an apartment, we're going to have to improve our income in this way. and allow yourself to stand on your own two feet. I think >> that would be my advice.

>> Uh barring the cultural statement that I made earier earlier. If that's part of this and you're like, "Hey, this is just how we do it in in in my culture, then I I'm not going to uh fight you on that." >> If you're going to stay, I would have an end goal in sight and make it stated among the group that we are gone by this time. And that helps add some clarity to

the situation. John is in San Antonio up next. What's going on, John?

>> Hey. Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. So, um I am uh finishing my

internal medicine residency here in a year. So, I'm thinking about, you know, where to move for my first real physician job. Um, I have some family in

the Bay Area and I'm thinking about going there and I was just, you know,

wondering if that would be a bad move financially because it's pretty much the most expensive part of the country to go to. >> Well, do you want to go there all things? If you took the money off the table of taxes and all that, are you like, man, I would love to live in the Bay Area or is it, well, I could make more in the Bay Area, but it's going to cost me more to live.

Yeah, I would say so that I do, you know, want to go there.

>> Okay. Because nothing is set in stone, you could go there, try it out for two years, decide it's not for you, and then peace out.

>> Yeah. >> And so I like the idea if this is really where you want to go and you're going, "Hey, I'm going to make, I don't know, throw $300,000.

Yeah, it's going to cost me a lot in rent. It's going to cost me a lot to live. But if anybody can make it work out there, it's a guy making $300,000.

Yeah. Okay. >> So, if you were like, "Hey, I'm going to make 40 grand. I want to go live in the Bay Area." I'd go, "Hey, man, that's going to be a really tough life." >> Yeah. >> But with your income, do you know what it may be in the Bay Area?

>> Yeah. Um, the jobs, the base rate pays

like 320. >> Okay. So, we'll just half that because Bay Area. And now you're bringing home 160. >> And look at rent. Look at groceries, where you want to live, what that's really going to cost. And that'll give you some clarity versus just vibes.

>> Yeah. You have to think about your values and what it is that you're trying to accomplish financially. Are you going to want to be a homeowner one day? Are you going to have want to have a wife one day that stays home?

Like what are the things that you believe that you want out of your life for the next 10 years? And would you be able to accomplish it living at that cost of living? Um or would you be able to accomplish a level of that and would you be happy with the level of life that it gives you?

>> Right. Right. >> How old are you?

>> Uh I'm on the older end. I'm 35. I'll be 36 when I >> You're on the older end. What's it mean for me? >> What's this mean for me, John?

>> I feel like I'm done >> of uh I guess compared to my colleagues,

you know, everyone I basically took seven years off. >> But I mean to become to become a doctor, it's like a 17-year journey. So, you

would if you want to pull the trigger on this, I would go for it after doing some homework. I would obviously go visit the area. That's a good start and get a feel for like, all right, this is what my life would be like. Kind of pretend like you're living like a local and this is where my apartment would be. Here's the lifestyle. And then you can go for it cuz at 35 as a single guy, you can always change your mind at 37 and nobody's mad at you. You're not uprooting too much.

>> Best of luck. All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw and we are fired up to take your calls about life and money. The number to call is88255225.

I can see we have one or two phone lines open right now. So if you're that person who's going, "Why should I call? I'm never going to get through." You might win the Ramsay Show lottery today and make it through if you're kind to our phone screener. Christian88255225

is the number to call. Susan is in San Francisco kicking us off. What's going on, Susan?

>> Hello. Um, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, I'm calling up uh regarding my father-in-law. Um, my father-in-law lost his retirement money due to bad investments and a divorce.

>> Now he's barely scraping by with social security. My husband comes from a family of three other siblings. My father-in-law has told us that he's in or my husband and I told he told us my husband and I uh that he's in $33,000 in

debt from credit cards and is barely scraping by between the credit card debt, food, living expenses, etc. He has

about $100 left over a month. He has

started asking us to buy him things after a knee surgery he had. Uh, we bought him a recliner. Also redid his shower to help him get in and out easier. >> That's great. >> And then he asked us, uh, for $1,000 more to help with some other expenses.

>> Now he's asking us to buy him hearing aids. >> U, my husband and I hasn't talked to any of the other siblings to help with their dad. He doesn't think they can afford it. When do we stop?

>> Wow. Um, how old is the father-in-law?

>> Uh, 84. Okay. Okay. Um gosh, I'm I'm so

sorry that that that took place and it sounds like he just didn't have the financial literacy to invest correctly and then it sounds like the divorce was kind of a double whammy there.

>> Did he get divorced very late in life?

>> Uh well, he's divorced twice. So this one, yeah, he was a second marriage.

>> Mhm. was he? Um,

what I want to know first before I talk about him, I want to know about you guys. What's your financial situation?

>> Um, we're doing um, you know, well, we do have two um, uh, children that are

still in school. So, we are um, paying

for them um to finish school. They'll be

here done in about a year or so.

>> Um, so finan uhhuh college. Uh, so

financially wise, I mean, we're we're doing um good >> in the way of there's no debt. Um, you guys have plenty of retirement. I should be clear by that by that question. Any debt? >> Um, no. Um, we pay off our credit cards

every month. Uh, we're doing well with retirement. We're putting away with money with that. I mean, we are I mean,

to pay stuff for him, I mean, yes. So, I

mean, we have to tighten the budget a little bit to pay whatever the father-in-law needs. Um, so that does

put like some kind of strain on us.

>> Um, just cuz we uh aren't able to do the things that we would like to do, >> right? Because this is costing you this has cost you a lot so far. And I mean, hearing aids are not cheap.

>> I mean, we're talking a couple of thousand dollars. I >> How much?

Um, well, he's um anywhere between you

can get them from $1,500 to 5,000.

>> Right. Right. >> Mhm. >> What does your husband think about all this? Does he want to continue helping dad financially? Does he want to put a stop to it, a limit to it?

>> Um, well, he's now, you know, after this

is like the fourth time he's asked us for things, he's like, "Okay, when is this going to end?" Like, "What is next?" Like, if the car breaks down >> Well, the truth is it won't end until you end it. >> Yeah. because you know, life keeps lifing and things keep popping up. So, I agree with George.

It's not going to end. >> Um, >> I mean, I don't I don't know what his health is like at this point. Is he able to take care of himself? Does he live alone?

>> Uh, yeah, he lives alone. He's able to take care of himself. Um, he lives in a small apartment.

know, I mean, that health-wise, he's he's okay. >> So, there's two there's two realities here. And I I I I don't think I need to say this to you. I think you've thought of this, but it's worth saying out loud for the call. We're very around here, we're very much uh self-starters.

Autonomy is good. Be in charge of your own life, that sort of thing. And so, for that reason, I don't think that you have a moral obligation to take care of this person. So, hear me say that.

However, the two things that you're holding in your hand are I have my life going over here. I have money that I want to spend on my life and my family, what have you. And then you have this guy over here who the truth is he's not going to work. He's 84 years old.

He's not going to bring in any income. And so what you're balancing is his quality of life and how that is affecting your quality of life.

you more to know he's over here. Uh he

needs hearing aids. He doesn't have them. His car is broke down. he's having trouble eating. Like those sorts of things. Are those going to bother you to the extent to where you go, you know what, maybe it's just worth it for me to help out. Maybe that actually does improve my quality of life and I'm not over here worried about it all the time.

There is something to be said for that.

Um, >> and I think that you've probably weighed that out mentally and I think only you know, is this something that really is a need or is this something that there are

measures that he can take to uh lower his lifestyle? Can he sell his home and downgrade to an apartment? Are there things that he can do to kind of fund this out for another 10 years um if he's healthy? >> So, does I mean, does he live in a house? Is there things that you can sell off that can kind of save this off from you guys uh fitting the bill?

Um, not really. No. Because when he did

lose his house, uh, through the divorce and they had to sell it, they were already deep in debt at that time. So, he didn't make any money from selling the house. So, >> he basically has, you know, he lives, like I said, in a small apartment and stuff. Too, >> um, I'm not exactly sure what it is. Um,

to tell you the truth, I don't I don't know. I if you're going to give him a single dollar more, you're going to be very involved with his finances and understand exactly how much is coming in and how much is going out because that controls how much you're going to end up having to give every month. And it gives you a very clear picture about the future of this. Is he even making the minimum credit card payment?

Is it in collections and they're coming after him? >> You guys need to get clear on that um as you step further into his financial life. And I would have your husband talk to the siblings. Right now, we're assuming that nobody can chip in and nobody wants to help.

I would have a come to Jesus meeting with them going, "Hey, listen.

Are you guys willing and able to chip in a certain amount per month, put a limit on it, even a time limit and a number limit so that they know this is not an eternal funding of dad's life?" That's right. Because he could live another 15 years. Right. >> Right. Right. Right. >> And if he if he has no assets truly, I wouldn't even worry too much about this credit card debt. if they sue him, there's nothing they can take. >> It's unsecured >> and it's not going to pass to you guys.

So, that would not be something uh I would jump in and say, "Well, we got to pay off the credit card debt." No, you know, you can keep paying minimums if you want to, but um and if if he they do come after him, if he does miss a payment, I would be contacting Guardian Litigation. They're a nationwide law firm that can help with this debt settlement collection issues. They'll assign him an attorney to help with all this. And you can reach out to them at guardianlit.com/ramsey.

But right now it's we need a game plan with some timelines. We need limits to all of this. Otherwise, it will never end. It is Bank of Susan forever and he's going to come for a,000, then 2,000, then 5,000. And you guys need for

your own marriage and sanity. This needs to stop or it needs limits.

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Ray is in Columbus up next. What's going on, Ray?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can Jade and I help?

>> Um, well, first I'd like to share a brief cautionary tale with other Ramsay listeners and then I'll get into my, uh, specific housing circumstance that hopefully you guys can give me some advice on. So, um, last year, uh, I

purchased my first home with my fiance

and, uh, which goes directly against Ramsay advice, and sure enough, the thing happened. Um, about 4 months into that home, uh, we ended up separating.

>> Oh, no. >> Um, yeah. Uh, so that, you know, was very

stressful emotionally, uh, on top of the financial aspect of that. Um, so I was

forced to sell the home and I could no longer afford it. It made sense with two incomes, but just couldn't swing it with one. So, this is a classic kind of circumstance that that you you all would uh warn against.

>> Um, >> how did that work? Was both your names on the mortgage and the deed?

>> Just me. It was just me. So, uh, >> we we had split the down payment, which is a very modern thing to do. Um, and

uh, so I had to sell the home and I I didn't quite get back the down payment, but I was fortunate enough to be able to make sale without realators, just to a neighbor, so didn't have to uh, pay commissions. So, got out of the home relatively clean. Um, but that that

brings me to now. Um, I moved into a one-bedroom apartment uh, to try to get my feet back under me and, you know, keep chugging along with life even though it was very difficult. and uh not a month and a half after signing that lease, I was laid off from my job.

>> Oh boy.

>> Um so kind of just a combination of things. So now I'm really I'm looking at

uh really potentially moving back in with my parents at 32, which is incredibly humbling. Um >> I guess my question is uh in terms of

the lease, you know, what are what really are my options? I I uh asked the

rental the property management company about a potential buyout and uh that would ultimately amount to

roughly $16,000 for only 3 months of

occupancy >> when they're not willing to work with you at all on a a smaller early termination fee or could you find a replacement >> tenant to take over?

>> Right. So, I was explored those options.

I requested the early termination fee,

um, which they, uh, wanted to be $7,000.

Um, so that would be in addition to the

rent that I've paid and then of course the fees that are non-refundable, etc.

>> Um, >> so you can't you can't go back and get the rent that you've paid, but just if you were to early terminate today >> and be how quickly could you move out and what would you still be on the hook for?

I can move I could be out of there um I

mean in two days really. Um and

>> so they'd prorate this month search >> or they'd make you pay the whole month.

>> They would make you pay the whole month. Well, I need to give them 30 Excuse me.

I need to give them 30 days notice physically. I could be out of the apartment, you know, this week. Um, I

had offered um, you know, a few thousand

dollar to uh, cover their estimated

damages, which is typical for early uh, termination fees, right? A couple months rent for them to remarket and rerent the unit. But they were very firm on the $7,000 on top of all, like I said, the other rent and whatnot. Um, so I'm what

I'm worried about is uh not being able to pay that and then being sent to collections and then that impacting my ability to rent um for years to come.

>> Yeah. So what are was there a severance with the layoff?

>> No, it was unexpected and uh without notice. So no severance.

>> Okay. And what are your job prospects now? What were you doing and how long do you think it'll take for you to get back into a similar role?

So, I was a uh designer, an architect uh

in training, so to speak. Um things are

slowing down in the industry, especially where I'm living currently. Um which is

why I'm kind of trying to regroup, like I said, for just a short period back uh back at my parents to really explore what the next move would be.

>> Um >> how much money do you have to your name?

So, I uh that's another thing I wanted to talk to you guys about and get some perspective on. Uh because typically the show has some pretty dramatic scenarios and maybe and which makes me feel a little better about myself, but maybe doesn't give me a lot of uh perspectives in terms of how you know well I'm doing.

Um, so I have uh $20,000 in a Roth IRA,

$20,000 roughly in a 401k,

10,000 in another brokerage account, and

then uh about eight grand in kind of a

typical checking savings.

>> Okay, great. So, you do have money.

So, if they were to offer a settlement for an early termination, you could cover it through the brokerage account and or your checking or

>> true. Yeah. >> What would stop what's stopping you from what caused you to look at this and go, I don't have the money to do this. I need to call the show. Why Why do you have pause on spending your money to get out of this lease?

Um, frankly, I just I wanted to know if there were other options um in terms of uh just my uh

where I stand legally um >> if I had any grounds for de debate or or or negotiation with them really. It just felt like an exorbitant amount of money.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean there's there's certain laws in your state and I don't know what those are. Or I would be if you want to contact an attorney that would be the the place to get legal help. We are no experts in that field.

>> But what I would do is push on the negotiation front because if this is it a large kind of complex cor owned by a corporation.

>> Yeah, it's a larger management company.

>> Okay. The other thing I would do just as a resourceful guy is I would take my lease agreement and upload it to AI and

really understand it better than they do

cuz that's what you signed. that's the contract they're going to hold you to. I don't think they're going to rip it up and go, "Well, we'll just work with you outside of that because again, this is a big corporation.

>> They're just all doing their jobs and they want their money." And so, I would just be pushing on that. Figure out exactly what's in that lease agreement and contract to figure out what my options are. I don't believe Ohio has

any job loss financial hardship exemption. Um, unless the lease itself has a provision for that. So, that's again some of the homework I would be doing. You can contact an attorney, but I think worst case, what is your rent right now? What is it costing to stay there?

>> The rent is uh $1,600 a month roughly.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And what are your other expenses?

Like what does it take to run your life for a month if you went bare bones?

>> Um, you know, I'm a pretty efficient guy.

Um, bare bones would be probably another grand on top of that, I would say, for gas, food, etc. >> Cuz you're still a capable man. you can go do seven side hustles and still cover

that month without dipping into the brokerage or savings. So, I would try that. I would try desperately to find a actual career job again in the meantime doing all these side hustles and floating your checking and savings until you can negotiate with your landlord to maybe negotiate the 7K down if you found a replacement tenant. So, they might be willing to work with you there. said, "If I find a replacement tenant, will you bring it down to one month's rent >> as penalty >> and keep the deposit, whatever?"

>> Right? >> And I think if you're the squeaky wheel and you do the hard work for them of finding a tenant, they might be willing to work with you. But it's not a >> I don't I would not just go pay 16 grand today to get out of this.

>> Yeah. I just want to check on though your efficiencies because I want to make sure you're covering your insuranceances and stuff. Do you have insurance? Do you have medical and everything like that?

So, lost that with the job.

>> Yeah, that's that's what I'm concerned about is I don't want you

>> riding around here. So, I need I would want you to pick up something for the interim. >> You should be able to get Cobra even though it's expensive in the interim.

>> So, that's on my list, too, because I mean, every time you go out in the street, there's an opportunity for you to be in a worse off position than you are now. So, let's make sure all of our bases are covered. And if you look up and you go, "Dack gum it, you know, with with rent, with my eating and gas and Cobra and all that, I I I can't float this." Then that's an excuse to, okay, we might have to dip into the checking just to get out of this.

health insurance. We've seen that happen, and that's where a lot of bankruptcy um cases are born.

>> Good luck, Ray.

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Lauderdale up next. Matthew, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Wow, this is amazing to get to talk to y'all. >> We're amazed to get to talk to Matthew.

We're so excited to help.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah. So, I'll be brief. And my question is is uh me and my fiance, we just got engaged and I'm 20 years old. I don't have no debt and I make

pretty good money. Um, however, she

wants to go to a RN school to become a registered nurse, but I'm trying to convince her not to take out student loans, and I'm in the financial position. I could pay for it, but I don't want to make a mistake saying if she did not end up loving registered

nurse that I'm out $40,000.

>> Yeah. Um, when does when's the wedding?

Have you guys set a date?

No. Uh it'll probably be January of next

year. Um but she uh she has got

graduated with an associates degree and uh now wants to go to RN school.

>> Is she working right now?

>> Yes, sir. Yeah, she's she's a waitress at a barbecue joint.

So your your um your uneasiness about

paying for this is is more about is this the career that she really wants. It's not about >> you know anything else. Correct.

>> Yeah. No, it's I mean I work really hard for my money. I'm a rancher. Uh and I don't mind helping her out just so we can stay out of debt cuz once we are married I don't want to get the burden of debt. >> You're a wise man at 20.

>> That's impressive. And how old is she?

>> She's 21.

>> What makes you think that this could be something that she's just got in her mind right now, but will change her mind down the line? Has she shown that to be part like a a personality characteristic?

>> Not necessarily. Um, it's just she's

never had any family members or experience the job. And I know being a nurse is a super hard job, right? Uh, so

I just don't want her to I don't want to

spend this money and then we end up looking back as a huge mistake.

>> Yeah. Well, the other piece that you haven't mentioned is covering somebody's

education that you're not married to just has a lot of risk.

>> Yeah. Just like the last caller.

>> You heard it, man. I mean, I paid Listen, you could be calling in a year from now. man, I paid for her nursing school and then we broke up and I can't get my money back. Now, I hope that doesn't happen.

I hope you guys are married and have a wonderful long marriage, but there's still that risk factor when you're not married. You have no protection there. And so, I love the idea of you guys developing a plan to cash flow her nursing school. And that might mean, hey, you're going to work for this next year and come January, we get married, let's reassess.

Let's see where we're at financially.

>> I'd also look I mean you guys have a uh not quite a year but if you're planning on getting married in January in the meantime she can do some programs out there that will allow her to shadow that career and really get in that environment and see do I can I stomach it? Do I like it? And get a sense of what it feels like. get a sense of the hours and really do her due diligence before you were to shell that money out.

And this is the perfect time to do that while she continues to work and save up.

>> Yeah, I was going to suggest, can she work in a healthcare environment in an administrative role where she at least gets to see the inner workings of the system, talk to the nurses, and get a real feel for what it's going to be like cuz she might find out, man, I really like healthcare, but I'd rather be on the business side versus with patients all day. And so I do think you're right to be cautious and go a little slow here. And I think she's just going, "Nursing sounds good." >> And it is. It's a great field if you're the right fit for it.

And you can get paid a lot of money and help a lot of people. >> Yeah. She could do a nursing shadowing program. She could volunteer at a hospital for a while.

She could maybe start as a CNA and do that first and not shell out the $40,000 right away.

Yes, ma'am. Okay. Yeah, I'll uh I'll try

to pass it on. And then my other situation is trying to get her to fall in love with the Ramsay plan like I did about four years ago. >> Well, she fell in love with you. Is that partially due to your fiscal responsibility?

>> Well, it's uh I think she loves the lifestyle and she loves me. Um

we we we live debtree. I mean, I I live

at the ranch. uh we take care of

livestock all day long and she she helps out with it a lot and I think she's really interested but the nursing she doesn't know anybody that's a nurse and she goes on Google and see what a nurse makes and she wants to do that >> and that's that's the fear if you're aiming at a certain paycheck then that scares me because number one you may not finish school and may not see that paycheck and it might be less than you thought or it might be more stressful than you thought and she jumps out of nursing after you guys sunk 40 grand into it.

So, I do think there's some premarital counseling to be done here and we can help with that. We'll gift you guys Financial Peace University and you go through that together, get on the same page and we'll do the work for you on trying to convince her to jump on the Ramsay plan. Yeah, I think we've given you some good solutions and even for her to to to sus out the the nursing program, my bigger thing is you need to talk about your viewpoints and philosophies around money.

I'm a guy. I built my whole life on avoiding debt. I don't do credit cards.

I don't sign up for debt." It bothered me or it gave me a at least questions when you were so quickly willing to go into debt for a degree. And those are the questions that you do want to start asking now and not even in a accusatory way or with like a bad, you know, air about it. Just seek to be curious and learn about her and >> say, "I want to be aligned in every area of our life and money is a part of that." That's it. That's how you start it.

So, wishing you the best. Hang on the line. We'll get you Financial Peace University to watch with her.

Brock is in Tampa up next. Brock, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going y'all? I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on? Uh, so I got just a small question. Um, I've got a classic

car that I've heard some mixed inputs on whether I should keep it or sell it then invest the money that I get from it. Uh, I'm a young guy, so you know, I guess any money that I can invest now will set me up later for the future. >> How old are you, Brock?

>> I'm 19. >> Okay. Do you got any debt?

>> I have no debt. >> Good. How much do you have in the bank right now?

>> Uh, a little over a hundred. Fantastic.

At 19. Goodness. What do you make?

>> Uh about 120.

>> Dude, you are crushing it. Okay. >> What kind of work do you do, Brock? At 19 making 120.

>> Uh I run like a like a landscape company kind of deal. >> Good for you. Good for you. So, tell us about the classic car.

>> So, I bought it off a customer about six months, seven months ago. Um it's a

great little car. I love it. It just, you know, it just kind of sits and, you know, I I've got money invested. I don't I don't know. I just I've heard people like, "Hey, are you going to get rid of it?" >> What' you spend on it? >> I just want to see.

>> Uh, I bought it for 10 and the car is probably worth closer to 20.

>> Cash?

>> Cash? Yeah. Everything I got is cash.

>> So, you could sell it for 20. And you're going, I might rather see that grow in an investment account than sit in a garage and collect dust and be something I have to maintain.

And that's that's kind of where I'm at with it, too. Now, what's even worse is the car sits outside >> um exposed to the elements.

>> It's not protected. Yeah, exactly.

>> And you don't want to pay for storage, insurance, all of that.

>> How many other cars do you have? >> I've got a place to store uh I've got two other trucks.

>> Okay. Can you get another classic car one day or is this the one of a kind?

You'll never see it again and you'll hate that you sold it.

>> I could definitely get another classic car. This car too isn't even like if I was to if I wasn't to get a good deal on it, I would have never bought it because it's not something that like would appeal to me. >> You kind of sound like you're talking you've we haven't had to talk you out of this. It sounds like you're set on it and I'll show you somebody to say okay >> from 19 to 59.

>> Get rid of it though. >> Well, yeah, you'll have a little bit of you can grieve it.

You're looking at a million bucks in that one account. >> That's true. But also hear us say you don't have to sell it.

>> If you were in crippling debt making 30 grand and this thing was going to be your savior, we'd say sell it today.

Nothing's on fire, but you just convinced us you don't want to deal with this thing anymore.

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We had a blast recording uh this show live in front of audiences on the road in April. That's right, Ramsay Show Live. We traveled to four cities >> in the month of April and did Ramsey show live in front of about, you know, 300 something people. The show was filled with live questions from the audience.

You get to see their faces, see their reactions, bring the spouse up to for the debate. And Jade and I had a great time. I was on two of those. I think Jade, >> were we were we Phoenix?

>> We were on uh zero of them.

together. >> Oh, we were >> this year. >> Is that? >> Yeah. I was with uh >> No wonder my mind went blank. Rachel and Ken. You were with Deloney and Ken for one and Rachel and Ken for the other.

>> George, what's up with that, man? >> I know. I know. They split. Well, we're too powerful together. You know, it's like Air Force One. You got to have one person on Air Force 2 for safety.

>> So, Charlotte and Denver episodes are out right now on the Ramsay Show, YouTube channel, Spotify, Ramsey Network, app. Phoenix and Anaheim episodes will be coming out soon. They were super fun and I think you're going to really enjoy watching them. The energy is electric. >> It's different. It's just different.

That's right. Go check it out. All right, let's go to Eric in Las Vegas up next. Hey, Eric. What's going on?

>> Hey. Hey. How's it going? Uh,

that was tall mean um cuz I kind of have a situation with my grandfather and his reverse mortgage and my wife and I are still in baby step two.

>> Um, but he's having some health scares, so he needs us uh to kind of move in with him. So, I'm trying to make sense if it makes sense once we get done with our uh baby steps if we try to tackle

and get his reverse mortgage paid off or do we just live there? Uh he said he'd let us live there without rent while we're helping him. Do we get our money situated for a down payment on our own house after he passes? We're just kind of not sure where to go.

>> Man, that's a lot to be handling right now. >> So, he's got a health scare. Is that meaning you need to move in and take care of him full-time? What does that look like?

Yeah. Um, so he's been passing out recently. Uh, and he, you know, falling around his house and not being able to call for help and stuff. So, it's kind of like, okay, it's time to, you know, move in. We don't have he doesn't have any other family. And >> how old is not? He's 80.

>> Okay. >> And so, the deal is you you move in, you help out, you don't have to pay rent, and then when the day comes and he's beamed up, you guys inherit the property.

>> Yeah. basically. Um, but he has a reverse mortgage and my wife and I just uh six months ago we had our son.

>> Um, and so the house is it's not super

old. It was built in the '9s, but it needs some TLC. Uh, so I would probably

have to frontload that before even thinking about the reverse mortgage at all, which means if I didn't get the house, I'd pretty much lose that money.

>> Do you know the numbers around the house? Like what does he owe on it? What percentage is the reverse mortgage? And what's it worth?

Yeah. Uh, the house is worth about 530.

The currently he owes 302,000

uh,000 on the reverse mortgage and I don't know the interest rate, but it's about $1,700 a month that goes up,

>> man. >> Wow. >> Well, I I would not do anything with the reverse mortgage right now. You guys aren't in a financial position to do anything anyways. You got your own financial, you know, mess to clean up.

You can still move in with him and it can still be quote unquote rentree. I mean, he's basically just using his house as a piggy bank with a lot of fees right now. These reverse mortgages, >> there's a reason they're sold on late night TV with a, you know, washed up actor with a mustache. And so, it's not a good product.

Terrible product. And I'm I'm sad that he fell into it. But this is the reality for a lot of, you know, elderly people is they didn't save for retirement, but they've got a paid for house and they see this marketing saying, "Hey, what if we could just send you a check every month? Doesn't that sound good?" And they take it.

So, I would just hold get his health back in order and and see what you can do to help take care of him. You keep fighting your own fight to get out of debt.

>> Yeah. So, like at the because we because I make about 7 to 9,000. So, I could clear this debt pretty quickly if we moved in. So that's my whole thing is

like I don't know I I don't know if it's still worth it once we get out of debt or >> Well, I mean you don't have 300 grand to pay it off anyways.

>> Yeah, he was talking about a full mortgage or something.

>> Oh man. Well, I would also get clear on

his estate planning wishes and what is going to happen and who inheritance will go to because I don't want you paying off a house that ends up going to somebody else and you have no recourse.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'm not saying that, you know, you need to say, "Hey, if I'm paying this off, I get the house in the will." You may not even want this house to deal with cuz like you said, it needs some TLC. It may not be the house you would have chose for your family to live in, but right now that's that's not a problem. That's a bridge we can cross way later on.

>> So best best uh case shortsight everything and just live rent free and kind of get out of my own situation.

>> You get yourself to a financial position and this will be a great wakeup call of man I never want this to be me.

>> Yeah. I'm telling you >> that's it. And you help grandpa live the best life he can live considering his health conditions. And you will have done a good deed on this earth my friend. Wishing you the best. Joseph is in Tampa up next on the line. What's going on, Joseph?

>> George Jade, it's an honor to talk to you both. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> Uh guys, I think I made a dumb decision.

I took out my 401k. Uh >> oh. >> So I can transfer it.

>> I know. I took it out. I have it in the form of a check so I can transfer to a Roth IRA. >> Wait, was it like a direct rollover check?

>> Um yeah, that that was my intention.

Like it's not. And is it made out to you or to the next institution?

>> It's made out to the next institution.

>> Okay, that's good. We're still good.

>> But the institution I'm trying to roll it over to is saying that the account that I have would have to be closed and liquidated with them so they can open up

a new IRA to put this money in. But I

may face tax implications.

>> I think what you're talking about is the prattle rule.

Yeah, that's something you can look into. So, basically, if you have a traditional account that has money in it and you're trying to convert, is do you know what type of money this is? Is it all traditional or all Roth? Is it both?

>> This is It's just a 401k savings plan.

It's It's all >> traditional, but I'm trying to put it into a I'm trying to put it into It's called a later traditional IRA.

>> I've never heard of that one. >> Me neither.

Tell us about it. Why is it different?

>> Um, what it says here, money change your

later IRA account.

>> They're saying that I can only have one later IRA. I It's their name for their investments account later with Acorns.

>> They're saying that >> that's where you're trying to roll this into.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I would try to use a more reputable institution to roll this over into like a Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab. They're going to be much easier to work with and you you should be able to contact them and say, "Hey, I need this check to be voided and made out to >> this other institution."

>> Oh, okay. Cuz at this point, I mean, I was getting ready to crash out on these guys at Acorns and shut the account and put it back into Fidelity. >> Yeah. I don't know the exact reason. I'm just I'm trying to think of why they would block you and say they need to close this account, liquidate it, open a new one. And my guess is there's some function where they can't do a rollover into an existing account,

>> right? They can't have it into an existing account and they won't let me have two of these investments account with their institution. >> Yeah, I think George is right. I think you just need to knock on another door and go to another bank.

>> Cuz I've done this with my my wife used to work at Ramsay for 9 years and so we transferred her 401k. It hadn't, you know, they ended up doing it as a check and then I literally took a picture of that, deposited it into a Vanguard rollover IRA. So that's what you're looking for is a rollover IRA with Fidelity, Vanguard, or Schwab. That's what I would recommend.

>> And then contact the original institution and have the check reissued or whatever. That's right. Yes, cuz I don't know enough about Acorns, but I don't know that they accept 401k rollovers. Or if they do, they're clearly making it very difficult.

>> They are. >> Okay. >> Cuz I'm seeing here, as I looked it up, Acorns Later is designed for new contributions only, not for receiving rollovers from workplace retirement plans. So, you you chose the wrong uh the wrong brokerage to mess with, unfortunately. Joseph, >> sorry, but at least you didn't withdraw the funds into your bank account. God, cuz you'd be uh on the hook for some taxes, my friend. So, direct for anybody

listening out there, if you leave your employer for any reason, you can do a direct rollover in kind. So, from a traditional 401k to a rollover traditional IRA or Roth to Roth, and you

want to make sure that you don't see the money, the money goes from one institution to the other institution.

That's the way to do it without penalties and fees.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls on Money and Life at88255225.

Sarah is in Spokane, Washington. Up next, Sarah, what's going on?

>> Um, so my question is that um my husband

and I have been debtree from about 2013

up until this year. Um, and my husband is um an alcoholic but got sober in

January. >> Good. um and replaced alcohol with spending. So now we have $38,000 in debt.

And um so he is now unfortunately not

sober again, but now wants to pay off the debt. >> He's not sober now, but he wants to pay off the debt.

>> Yes. It's the opposite of what traditionally happens, I think.

>> And the 38,000 is that all sorts of different things or was it like one vehicle? because $38,000 since January

is a lot of money. >> Two major purchases. >> What are they?

>> Um, so one is a boat and one was a bathroom remodel.

>> Okay. Boat and a bathroom. >> One of those we can sell. So that's good. >> How much is that boat worth? >> Yeah. >> Um about 28,000.

>> And what's owed on it?

>> 13. >> Oh, good. >> Good. So there's some money there. and the bathroom. You were on board with that a little bit, I got to believe.

>> Hard to sneak that one past you.

>> Yeah. So, I was until they came back with the quote and then I said no and he signed the papers >> without you. Mhm. Okay.

>> Okay. So, the good news is there's money to be made back on the boat and then we can cash flow the payoff of the rest of this. Is he working? Is he able to hold down jobs?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What does he earn and what do you earn?

Um, so together we earn just under 300.

>> Wow, great income. So that's nice. We'll clean this up fast. I mean, if you sell the boat, you'll profit 15,000 and apply

that to your 25,000 left on the bathroom loan.

>> Well, so my question is more, so we have the money. >> Um, we have I have 50,000 in savings and

I have um 35,000 additionally in a um

emergency fund. >> Okay. Um, however, the last year of our

life has been incredibly volatile with a lot of things that we've not seen coming

that we've had to cash flow. So, I'm just worried about draining savings. Um,

he has some stocks that he plays with

that he needs to sell to pay for this and I'm worried about the tax implications for that. I just don't know the like we can pay it off. I just don't know the best way to do it. >> I I'll tell you my thing that I'm a little concerned about. You said your concerns. My concern is if he's back drinking again and you guys have this stellar income, does this have the ability to affect his job and his employment, therefore putting you guys at in a in a really tough situation financially?

>> Um, it hasn't ever is all I >> So, he's a pretty functional alcoholic.

>> Very.

>> Well, here's the thing. You can move around the money, pay off the debt, but it's not changing this underlying problem, which is your marriage and his addictions, >> right? >> You guys are not on the same page. He's making moves behind your back. You doesn't seem like you have much of a vote here and you're realistically worried about the future. Now, I would pay off the debt and I would sell the boat. It's not going to put you in dire straits to do all of this to knock out the debts.

What I would do is put some guard rails in place so that neither of you can make

any more stupid financial decisions. And that means we're going to freeze both of our credits. We're going to pull both of our credit reports today. You can go to annualcreditreport.com, pull those for free to get everything out on the table and he needs to be very much involved in this. Is he on board to rectify the

situation and get his life and marriage back?

Um, that's to be determined. I don't I can't answer that. >> I think I would go I think I I would go to a further extreme on this. I don't think that you can give access to an

addict to the money. I don't think he can have access to the money cuz the problem is he's going to spend it.

Whether it's signing a, you know, a bathroom contract that you didn't agree to or >> toys, gambling. I mean, it sounds like he's just looking for every vice possible. So, I think that you have to have that conversation and figure out um on the side and and possibly with some counsel what it can look like for you to

um have access to this and maybe you I it doesn't sound like he would work with you on this to say, "Hey, uh I'm worried. I'm worried about me. I'm worried about you. I'm worried about the family." Do you guys have kids?

>> We do. >> How many?

>> Three. >> Three. Yeah. I'm worried about the kids.

we're unsafe. And so the only thing that I can do to stay in this environment with the kids for it to be safe is I have to have access to the money because I have to make sure that mortgage is paid. I have to make sure that the needs are met financially and that you don't mess things up for us going forward for the long term. If you're not able to do that, then I have to make other arrangements, >> which means you're the gatekeeper.

And in order to make sure that you're safe and until he shows himself to be trustworthy, >> uh, which means he is sober, making wise financial decisions over a long period of time, I do think it's wise not to quote unquote separate your finances, but to make sure that he does not have access to this money to make bad decisions with, >> right? Cuz you're still keeping him a breast of what's going on. He can still look at the budget. Like it's not to say that he can't.

It's just to say, "Hey, you used to be able to have this debit card and go and spend spend spend. Now I'm I'm going to do be the one that pays the bills without of our money. I am going to be the one that handles the money basically." Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. I mean, it's I do handle it already. Um >> Right. but he's got a debit card in his wallet and he can go out and he has

worried about like give us the top priorities of things that you would be worried about >> right now with your finances.

>> My biggest thing is if we were to drain

the savings and then we had we've had a couple like $10,000 emergencies come up

in the last year because of other circumstances that we've cash flowed.

Um, and so I just am worried that those

may come up and we've already drained our savings to now pay for that. >> No one's asking you to drain the savings. I mean, if you if you sell the boat and pay off the bathroom remodel, you're still left with liquid, you know, 50 grand, >> okay? >> And you're not going to have a $50,000 emergency and you can probably cash flow that now that you're you'll be completely debtree with a full emergency fund with $300,000 coming in. M and so

you guys are in actually a really decent spot financially, but it's more of the whatifs and is he going to get better and will you guys work together and will this addiction get worse?

>> Those are the parts we need to deal with. >> How long was he an alcoholic before he got sober this this last time?

>> Um so this is the first and only time so far and it's been 20 years.

>> Okay. >> Wow. What what gave him the ability to get sober that first time? Was there one

thing? >> Um, it our son was also an addict and went

through rehabs. >> Wow.

>> And so >> it was an eye opener, but yeah, >> but it wasn't enough.

>> I know. >> Yeah, >> our son is one year sober.

>> Okay, that's good. Listen, we're rooting for you. You've got you've got your work cut out for you. And I think the best thing you can do is control your actions. You can't control his. So you can decide what your boundaries are going to be, what you want, the picture you want for money that makes you feel safe and you can act on those things.

You don't have to and you can't wait for somebody especially somebody who's not in a healthy place at this moment but rooting for you guys.

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We're headed to Grand Rapids up next.

Kenzie joins us there. Kenzie, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today? >> All righty. My husband and I have been married for almost a year now. We've been essentially running from my father-in-law for almost 3 years. We do not pay a monthly flat rate rent.

Rather, we pay just the monthly expenses like propane, electric, and minor repairs. Um, so we're very fortunate to be in this situation as it has allowed us to stay save. Um, but I'm to the point where I want out of this house.

Um, I prefer for my father-in-law to just be my father-in-law at this point, if you know what I mean. >> Yes, I do. Um, instead of your landlord.

>> Yes. >> Now, he's not Is he living there or is this just a house he owns that you guys are? >> No, this is just an extra house that he owns. It's paid off and everything. He It's I don't know. He He's like gifting

it to us like just to live there for free. Um, he means no ill will by it by any means, >> but you feel it.

>> Yes. Are there some strings attached relationally?

>> Not exactly. And I don't think he

intends to do anything purposely, but I just kind of feel obligated to do certain things. Um, so I think it's time for >> us to get out. Um, but my husband and I do not agree >> um on this. He wants to wait until we have enough cash to purchase a home, whereas I'm okay with starting to look now um and having a mortgage. So, oh, so

he wants to do like he the 100% downplay. >> Yeah. Not just saving a down payment. Oh gosh. How much is that going to cost? >> Yeah. What's the number?

>> Um, I'd say 250 to 300.

>> How much do you guys have now?

>> Um, we have roughly 120,000. We have

51,200 in our savings. And then we have 68,445

in a CD. >> Okay. How long would it take to to re

realistically do this? Which means you've got a 3 to six month emergency fund and you've got the cash money for the house.

>> I would say 3 to four years.

>> Okay. >> What do you guys make a year?

>> Uh we bring home Well, we don't bring home. Uh we make roughly 110 to 120.

Just depends on overtime. Um, and I will say this is my first year like with an actual salary. Um, >> okay. >> So, it'll >> So, you're essentially living on 60 and banking 60 in a year if it goes well.

>> Yeah. >> I think I'd like to hear more from you because I I mean, I'm thinking about Mike's situation. My husband and I, we rented a house from Sam's mom, which is

my mother-in-law, and we did that for 10 years almost while we paid off debt, saved up a down payment for a house. Um,

and I I Like I understand what you mean, which is that per like Nina is the best.

Like she gave us so many breaks, but I

still always felt a thing. Like I was grateful, but at the same time, when it was time to move into our own place, I was really excited to have our own place. But I want to know cuz a lot of that can live in our own minds, too. And yes, it does affect the relationship, but because he's not living there and because it sounds like he's happy to do

this service, it sounds like maybe there's more to it. But there's part of me that's like, "Hey, don't block the blessing." Like, if there's a blessing here, don't block it. Um, is there more

we should know about it before I say that? >> I think it just feels like we're leeching off of it. In my opinion, it feels like I'm leeching off of his dad and I don't ever want to be like relying on somebody else. >> Okay, that now we're getting somewhere.

What if you paid rent?

>> What if you paid a reasonable rent instead of just um you know, utilities

and things like that?

>> Cuz that'd still be cheaper. >> I don't think he would take it. He's a very stubborn man. I don't think he would allow us. >> What would it cost to rent elsewhere right now if you guys were to leave today and go rent if you weren't ready for the house?

>> 1,200 at least, I'd say.

>> Okay. I mean, I'm just trying to do the math of the reality. So, 1,200 bucks times, let's say, a year, that's 14 grand less that you would bank.

>> Yeah. >> In the year. >> And I'll throw in another wrench. We are expecting our first child in November.

>> Oh, that's great. >> Um, so maybe I am just being a little

bit dramatic here and I need to suck it up for another couple years. Um, since we are having a child, >> what you could do if if you really wanted to, but to your point, he's not going to take it. You could pay $1,200 into an account and just say, "This makes me feel better." And when you're ready to move out, you could say, "Grandpa or dad-in-law, this is, you know, however much money this is, $50,000." And he's not going to take it. And then you're going to say, "Well, I really tried.

And it's okay for somebody to give you a gift cuz think about it like this. Um, if you had the ability to do something like this for your children's children,

for your children, would you do it?

>> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. So, that's a joy that he has to be able to do that. And so, I think sometimes it's hard to be on the other end of somebody else's generosity.

It doesn't sound like it's stunning your growth. Like if I was concerned that it was really >> if you guys weren't saving any money, there was a bunch of strings attached, the relationship was awkward and strained, then I'd say, "Hey, it's worth getting out and paying the 1,200 bucks." But to Jade's point, this it feels like we're just blocking a blessing because it feels weird and it it is hard to accept generosity.

>> U but I I think that's >> that's okay for a season. If this was 10 years and you guys weren't moving forward, but you guys have a baby on the way, you're banking 60k a year to save up for this house. >> And can I also tell you, Kenzie, it's okay if you guys went and got a 15-year mortgage where the payment was no more than a quarter of your take-home pay.

And then you pay that off cuz the truth is the goalpost will keep moving with this house. That $300,000 house four years from now is a $375,000 house.

>> Yeah. And I feel like uh to a certain extent like the mortgage would make us save more if that makes sense cuz right now we're living there kind of rent free. We don't really have like yeah we have a budget but we're kind of >> you're getting go you can yeah you can

>> be a little more comfortable and have a little more of your luxuries >> um when you don't have.

>> So that's where I'm going. Could you save 70 instead of 60? I think you might

be able to do even better if you guys got really focused and went, "All right, it's not going to be 3 to four years.

It's going to be May of 2028, we are out

of here." >> Mhm. And whatever we have saved, that's the that's the down payment. >> That might be a nice compromise cuz it gives you a timeline. So, this is not an endless, well, maybe, but then four years from now, the house price has moved.

We want a different house cuz we have two kids now. Need to save up 500,000. So that's where I would come to a compromise where you guys land on something a little more solid. >> I like that plan >> vibes.

>> I like that plan, too. Good old compromise. >> Boom. That I want nobody to win.

>> Yes. >> That's so great. Well, congrats on the baby, Kenzie. >> Thank you. Thank you guys. >> That's so exciting. That's a good You know, Jade, this is a good time to remind people that the principles around housing. Dave has always said >> that the best plan is 100% down plan.

You can do cash. We We love that.

>> Yeah, but we won't yell at you if you get a 15-year mortgage. It's the only debt we won't yell at you for where the payment is no more than a quarter of your take home. That's right. >> So, I'm doing the crunch of the numbers for them.

A $300,000 house with $100,000 down on a 15-year, probably looking at about two grand. >> Yeah. >> Good. So, if they take home 8 grand, they're right there in the parameter.

They could go buy a house today. Now, they're going to take on the burden of home ownership, which comes with its own >> That's true. joys, highs, lows, roller coaster, >> adulting. Yeah.

>> It needs a new HVAC the week after we move in with a brand new baby.

>> Yes. But I to your point, the the goalpost is always going to move here.

And I would hate for that to keep somebody from jumping in with both feet, you know, um to save up three or 350,

that's a great thing. But if it's going to take you six years to do it, well, now suddenly that 350 isn't going to get what you thought it was going to. And now you're going, "Well, I can't save as fast as inflation's happening in the housing market." And if you saw what happened during the pandemic, I mean, it was insane. It was absolutely that $300,000 home 18 months later was $500,000, >> right?

And here's the thing you have to remember for the person who jumped in, they were like, "This is great." >> If you bought a house in 2019 or real early 2020, you were like, "Score." >> Yes. That's why I'm like, jump in.

aligned and everything is perfect. It's when you can afford it and if you can do it, I say jump in. Real estate is a ladder. You know, start at the lowest rung that you can get in on and don't be afraid to climb it until you get into the house that you want.

>> You lock in that mortgage payment for the duration of the loan. So, you're not dealing with that moving goalpost anymore and insurance going up, which that's a piece to factor in. And the last piece is, you know, thinking about Kenzie's situation with a kid on the way.

>> Well, that might change the figures and facts to I would be planning for that option >> always, >> which means you don't want to have a giant payment and jump into a house too early. There is this Goldilock sweet spot and that's that 25% and maybe factor it off his income and where that's going >> to give you that flexibility. So that's the point of the baby steps is to give you option, margin, meaning all of that

is is built into the plan.

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In a perfect world, we could get to every single call and question here on the show, but we have a solution. If you have a money question, you want an answer for your situation that's personalized. Head over to our website and use Ask Ramsay.

It's our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsay principles, so you're not left guessing, is this what I should do? What would Dave or Jade or George or Rachel or John say? You'll get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, go check it out for yourself. Ramseyolutions.com and you'll see that little search box to enter in your question or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. R.J. is in Greensboro, North Carolina up next.

R.J., welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how you guys doing today?

>> We're doing great. >> Thanks for having me on. So, I'll try to keep this short and sweet. So, me and my wife are just starting out getting getting started with the baby steps and we're still working on baby step one.

So, >> thousand off yep, thousand bucks. So, um

that goal doesn't seem too unattainable at all. Um >> most people do it in 30 days >> just for a little milestone there.

>> And that's where we should be at. Um, I'm thinking within the next like 30 days, we should definitely be there.

>> Okay. >> So, >> I guess my question is more towards baby step two when you start paying off consumer debt. Um, to us it seems like

we just have so much debt that needs to

be paid off and we just feel like we don't make enough money to like actually

make that happen within like a reasonable time frame.

>> And that may be the case. I mean, what you're discovering is something that everybody's got to look at. Um, not just you, R.J., for anybody who's considering the baby steps and looking at their debt. There's really two ways out of this, George. You've either got to lower your lifestyle, R.J., or increase your

in your income or do a combination of both. That's the only options really that a person has. So, if you're looking and going, man, on our income, this thing is going to take forever. Then you already know income's got to go up. So let's talk about what that is. >> Pull some levers. So how much total consumer debt do you have?

>> So right now I think we have somewhere between 80 and 85,000.

>> All right. And what is your household income? >> Uh household income we're about 70 grand. >> Okay. And in the 8085, what's the what's

the split there? Break it down for us.

>> Um so most of it is student loans from

me. Wife doesn't have any student loans.

How much? >> Um I'm about 50,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. And the other 30 35, what's that?

>> Uh so we have about 15,000 in a car. Um

and then just just random little personal loans. Those are about 300 400 each. I want to say about maybe five or six of those. >> Okay. What's the car worth if you sold it? Private party.

>> Private party if I sold it probably be about seven to eight grand.

>> Oh wow. How did you get that for underwater on it? Do you roll over negative equity?

>> Um, no. I think we just have just very bad credit. So, we just got a terrible interest rate and >> Understood. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, I mean, you're right. I mean, what are you guys bringing home?

484,900 a month. >> Um, yeah, I think that's what we calculated. I know last month we had a little extra because my wife got a bonus from work, which she doesn't normally get. Um, so that kind of helped us out a bit and like I said, we we're just starting.

We're trying to use the every every dollar app and >> it seemed to help us out, you know, that first month. Of course, we forgot to budget for the second month, so we're not using it now. Um, >> that's the thing about budgets. You got to do one every month.

>> Yeah.

You can still log in at any time and complete the one for May, even though, you know, we're we're almost midway through, but go ahead and do that because every day that you get on a plan, you're on a plan and that's a better trajectory for you. So, on the 4,900, were when you did the every dollar budget, were you in the were you in the green? Was it an every dollar budget or were you in the red or tell me what you saw? >> At first, At first we were in the red.

Um, and then we just kind of shuffled some things around just to kind of make it work to be in the green. So, we did kind of figure out how to get into the green. I guess it's just being realistic

like >> with us, we we never know when things are going to come up. So, like we with three kids and you know, kids come with us on field trips or school school things and you know, some emergencies have popped up over the past couple of months. So, >> so let's talk about how to budget for that because that is life and your budget should be able to be realistic for your life. I always say a good budget is detailed, realistic and flexible.

So, you need that flexibility because there's real life, but you also need the the the the detailed nature of it because that's going to help you have something concrete monthtomonth.

little bit of extra money for you. You know, on 4,900, it's not going to be a whole lot. Maybe it's $100 there. That's just held for something that you completely forgot about.

Oh my gosh, the field trip. But really, what you need on that budget is a line item for, you know, your kids, whether it be um uh school lunches or school projects. And you set the amount. And if it's beyond that amount, sometimes you do have to say, "We're not doing this one, you know." And so the more you do a budget, for most people, it takes 90 days to lock in what you would call kind of a sustainable, you know, this flows with my life budget.

You've only done one, so that's okay. Keep doing it.

Oh gosh, we didn't schedule for the kids stuff. Now that's part of the budget from now on. Oh my gosh, we didn't schedule for birthdays. Now we realize that's something we need to think ahead of when we have our budget meeting every month.

Cuz what should be happening, George, is you guys sit down and you're racking your brain for the things that could pop up. She's racking rocket racking her brain for the things that could pop up. And together you guys are saying, "Oh yeah, hey, don't forget about that trip. Oh yeah, don't forget about grandma's birthday.

Oh yeah, don't forget, you know, >> you're interrogating the kids about what's coming up, looking at their little calendars they brought home from school cuz they those kids, you can't trust them to remember every little thing.

what in the world is this? Okay, put you know, yet another budget. Everyone's got to chip in three bucks. >> Exactly. So we get it, R.J. Okay. Um, so

that's the first rhythm that I want you to start developing because that's going to be so important to you guys walking these baby steps. The budget must be locked in. Otherwise, George, the wheels fall off very quickly. And once one thing falls off, you're like, well, what's the point, you know, it's hopeless.

So, get back on the wagon. It takes 90 days just to get this budget dialed in.

>> I do not. So I have a bunch of student loans that kind of a couple of them kind of racked up and I never finished school. Um one of them I did you know one of them I did the main one that's that one's about 40 grand. I did graduate from trade school.

>> Okay. What's your trade? Uh, so I originally was an automotive technician.

I have since switched. I am now a locksmith, which I just started about maybe a month or two ago. >> Is that a solo gig or do you work for a locksmith company?

>> I work for I work for an international company, locksmith company. >> So, what do you make and what does your wife make? >> Uh, so as of right now, like I said, I just started this gig about a month or two ago. Um, and I'm still getting training pay, so that's what I've been basing my income off of. >> Oh, okay. Yep. So, my training pay I

make about 1,700 every two weeks. Um,

and >> what will it go up to?

>> Uh, so just potential of what it could

go up to, from what I've been told from some of the other people who've been with the company for a while, I could potentially be making over 100 grand, maybe 120. >> When would that be?

>> Um, that's kind of when you kind of get

vested a little bit. that'll be um later

down the line, maybe within the next year or two. >> Okay. So, that's that's really promising and that's exciting because >> that could change the game for this debt payoff journey. And so, that's what we're saying.

This is a journey. Most people do it in 18 to 24 months. It might take you 3 to four years >> and that's okay >> and it might speed up on the tail end and be real slow to start, but the key is you just keep hunkering down, stay focused. Maybe you're doing side jobs right now until that income uh comes up with those promotions.

>> What I would do is I would get really serious about sitting down with your wife and you guys set the tone and say, "This year, for the next calendar year, how much do we want to pay off?" And work backwards and say, "If we want to pay off, I don't know, uh, $40,000 this

year, what do we have to do to make that happen?" And work backwards and say, "Okay, what do we need to do side hustle-wise? What do we need to do overtime wise in order to make that happen?" And you guys set the rules on this and make sure that you're driving the intensity forward. Don't just let life happen. >> That's right. That's the saying we have around Ramsey is what must be true. Yes.

>> And that causes you to reverse engineer that goal.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.

Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

Jonathan is in Boston up next. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> George, thank you for having me. I appreciate your time. >> Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today?

>> I'm calling because I'm on baby step 4.

Uh my wife and I just became completely debt free, paying off 200,000 of debt at the age of 24. >> Wow. >> Way to go, man. How long did that take?

>> Uh I'd be lying if I said I didn't know.

One year, 9 months, and about 5 days.

>> Excellent. >> That's incredible. >> What kind of debt was it?

>> It was about 188,000 in student debt and

then about 10,000 for the first little car that I bought right out of college.

>> Oh my gosh. Well, I know you didn't intend for this to be a debtree scream, but I just when you say that you paid off that much debt, what caused you to kind of wake up one day and realize this is not the life we want to live?

>> Uh, well, I got a job in the financial industry and I started helping people invest and I realized that I should probably start practicing what I preach.

My wife and I really uh have an appreciation for the military. So, we joined the military and I think that very squirtedly mindset um helped us really get on the right track and start taking action for uh for ourselves.

>> I love that. >> Fantastic. >> Love that so much. Congratulations. >> How can we help today? This is an exciting stage to be at.

>> Well, I appreciate it. So, we we're in a spot where we're debtree and we have about 45,000 probably 50,000 saved now. Um, and personally I'm a huge car guy and I have a lot of friends who are in the same financial situation where they have almost six figures saved up. Um, and they're buying these cars that are not depreciating. And so I thought I may as well take a stab at looking at it. And I found myself looking at something called a Porsche Cayman >> and it's about it's about $40,000. And

I've been very carefully tracking the market of these cars and I didn't know if it was a better idea to purchase a car that might not lose as much value and maybe being a a better option to not have as much depreciation.

>> Well, um, unless you're buying like a classic car that's going up in value, I mean, everything that you buy is going to depreciate. So, the idea that their cars aren't depreciating is not true.

Now, a lot of nicer cars, they kind of fall off that initial cliff in the first one to two years, and then they tend to hold their value a little better, longer, some better than others, but just know if you're driving something with wheels and a motor, unless it's, like I said, a classic car, it is going to go down in value. The question is, can you afford a $40,000 vehicle? So,

tell us about your income.

>> Uh, so my wife and I after tax bring in about 210,000. Um my my comp is set to

go up uh end of this year into next year um to about 200,000 for myself and she's probably on track to make 150. So we should be looking at around 100,000 after tax by uh tax season of you know this time next year. >> That's really really good. What's she driving?

>> Uh she leased a Volt in Tiguan with no

money down and 300 a month and then my car is fully paid off. >> Oh wow. So you still have the lease. Was that newer? Is that a newer decision or is that an old decision that you've now since learned from?

>> Uh, so the Volkswagen Tigan was in 2024

and we have a friend that works on the dealership side. So, he got us a really good deal and he has kind of unlimited um kind of mileage with the car. I I think it's like 20,000 mi. We don't really drive that much.

So, we got a good deal on the car and we didn't want to go into debt to buy another car. So, that's why we made that decision. >> But, I mean, it's a contract where you promise to make payments. That sounds very similar to debt in my book.

Now, there's not a loan balance that you can stare at and knock down, >> but I rescend my my debtree scream until this lease is dealt with.

>> Uh, I think it's 21,000. We don't plan to buy the car. >> So, you just want to rent it and then give it back and then you'll restart this process. What's the game plan?

Uh, I think we're going to buy a car in cash uh, next year for around 25,000 for her. We don't really want to go through that whole lease her debt process again.

>> Okay, I agree with that part. I would never lease a car ever again. It really is one of the most expensive ways to operate a vehicle. Um, and I think the

the feeling of we got a really good deal and you know, no money down and all these things, but the truth is it is still money that you're on the hook for unless you make a lump sum payment to get out of it. So, it's risk that you're allowing in your life when you really don't need that. You guys make such a great income. You've got cash saved. And I think you understand that uh once this happens, never again because truly lease

payments, car payments, they are the divide, Jonathan, between middle class

and wealthy folks. It's it's just really the divide there, especially with the amount that you could invest uh by not having a car payment or lease payment.

Okay, so learn lesson there. Moving on to the Porsche. So, it's $40,000. You guys are making $210,000 a year. We do have kind of a rule of thumb when it comes to vehicles, George. We say you should never have anything uh with a wheels or motors that's more than half of your salary every year. Um, so you

guys would not be, you know, basically capping it out 100 grand total in

vehicles and toys. And so, if your yours are worth 40, hers is worth 25, you're in good shape. Now, the thing to think about, I wouldn't at this point thinking about resale value and depreciation is just going to hurt your soul. That's right. So, if you're paying cash, you don't have to worry about being underwater. If you're going to drive, are you going to drive this thing for, you know, seven plus years?

>> Uh, probably closer to 10, I'd like to keep this car and maybe even pass it down to my kids one day. >> Wow. >> Oh, okay. >> Well, they better be ready for those uh maintenance and repair costs 10 years from now. That's that's going to be the problem with cars of this caliber.

You're going to need to have a nice healthy sinking fund in your budget, you know, for two to four grand minimum to

maintain this car.

>> Sure. I plan to save about 5,000 a year for preventative maintenance and to keep the car in good shape. I just thought, you know, it's a car that I've wanted since I was probably 6 years old.

>> Yeah, I would do it. >> You said you've got 45 to 50,000 saved.

Um, that's not including your emergency fund, right? Or is it?

>> Um, that that would be all our savings total. Um, we're saving about5 or $6,000

a month right now. Okay. Um, so we should hit our our $100,000 goal by November or December. >> So, I'd be very Yeah, I'd be very careful to separate that money and make sure that this 50,000 whatever your 6 months of expenses is, put that someplace separate and then save up for this Porsche car fund. And that way

you're not going to make the mistake of thinking this car is an emergency.

>> Yeah, definitely don't do that. If this is the only 50,000 that you have, you're not quite ready to buy this yet. But it sounds like you'd be there in the next um >> Are you saying you do this in November?

>> Um well I I did hit a gear in December

so my car is kind of on its last legs right now. Um so I probably need a car within the next month or two.

>> Oh wow. >> Then I don't think you're ready to buy this one because >> Yeah. How what is your 3 to 6 months emergency fund? What would that entail?

What does it take to run your house for a month?

>> Uh including rent an additional 3,000 a month offer. We're probably sitting around 6 or $7,000 a month. So that that put us around the the 25 to 30,000 range.

>> Okay. So then any money above 25 or 30 is now your car budget. And so that that's a hard line you guys have to decide. We're not going to do half down, half on a loan. We're going to pay cash.

We're going to do this the smart way.

And that might mean we need to make this car last a little bit longer. Maybe that's a a repair. Maybe that's an inter an intermediate car in the meantime for the next 6 to 12 months.

>> And you know how to do that. You understand delayed gratification. You guys paid off $200,000 of of mostly

student loan debt. So keep flexing that muscle because it's gotten you this far and you've benefited from that. Now is not the time to kind of fall off the

things that you know. Do what you know to do that's caused you to be successful to this point. Because right now, if you got 25 in emergency fund, that gives you an extra 25 in this car fund. And you said you can add six grand a month.

>> Uh that's what we're averaging right now. It will probably go up, but I I don't want to overestimate. >> Okay. But let's say, you know, 2 months from now, that's 12 grand added to your 25. Well, now we're at 37.

>> So, you're on the on the bubble of car shopping. Maybe you get a slightly, you know, one year older or you decide to wait one more month and now you have 43,000.

And so if you can just wait 90 days, you're going to be able to get the exact thing you want and pay cash. And I'd be very focused. I'm guessing you've done a whole lot of research on the exact make, the model, the engine, the features, all of that.

>> Well, George, you don't want to see my uh my little poster I have at home that tracks the trend lines of all these cars. >> Oh, that's incredible. I love the nerdery, but that tells me you're going to make a good decision with this and it's not flippant and impulsive. You said you've been dreaming about this since you were six. >> Wow. >> And you've done the work to get there.

And so, just don't let go. Don't let the foot off the gas, pun intended, quite yet, Jonathan. You were so so close. And you're going to love that car cuz you're going into it eyes wide open, understanding it's higher insurance, it's higher maintenance, and it has increased your quality of life. And six-year-old Jonathan is smiling, going, "Dude, you paid cash for a Porsche.

>> Love it. >> Crushing it, dude. Keep it up.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour the number to call is88255225

if you want to jump into the conversation about your life and your money. Shawn joins us in Baltimore up next. Sean, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> Good, good. Thanks for having me on. Um, so just a quick backstory. My wife and I followed the baby steps minus one. We did purchase a vacation house about 5

years ago, which I know is Dave's pet peeve if we can't afford it with cash.

U, we can financially afford it, but we do have two mortgages right now. So my

question is my wife gets RSUs through her job. We also purchase stock through her employee stock plan. And is it smart

to sell those stocks once they vest each quarter and put it towards our mortgages and you know and which one should I put it towards or reinvest it or not sell them at all and let them sit?

>> I love the idea of selling them once they vest. >> I would do that anyways just because you don't want concentration in any single stock. >> Yes. Enron would like to have a word.

Uh, and so it's wise to sell them anyways and to if you want to reinvest those into mutual fund or index funds or pay off the house, I would apply it to your next baby step, which for you guys is I assume baby step six. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your household income?

>> We are. Yeah. >> Great. And you got kids. Are you saving a little bit for college? If so, >> yeah, I have two kids. Um, my daughter's 11 and my son is nine and we have about 50,000 in their 529.

>> Fantastic. And what's left on these two mortgages?

>> So, I have about 270 on my primary and 165 on the

vacation house. >> So, what's the um when you sell these stocks quarterly, what do you take away from that?

you on average probably about 25 to

40,000. It fluctuates, but >> Awesome. >> Yeah, it's been it's been Yeah, the the stock has been going really well recently. >> Okay, I love that.

Um I would totally do that and I would go towards the principal, your main home first because I like the piece of having that paid off even though obviously it's a higher balance. Um >> if you had like a full 165 and you could just knock out the vacation home today, that would be fine. But I I'm with Jay that the primary home is usually the the focus because that's where you rest your head. >> And so I like that idea of having that paid off.

>> The mortgage say that one more time. >> What's the mortgage payment for your your home that you're living in right now? >> So it's about 2500 I believe.

>> And what about the vacation?

>> 1,800. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Cool. >> I feel solid in that approach. How much money do you guys have that you could sort of liquidate to put towards these mortgages?

>> Yeah, so that's what we did. We actually just sold a bunch of stock a few months ago and we we still have about 60,000

sitting in our savings. So that's why I wanted to call you guys to see what you know what we should put towards. So really we could drop 60,000 really

tomorrow and then we have another you know another vesting period coming up in June. Have your emergency fund separate?

>> Emergency fund is separate. Yeah. >> Okay, great. Man, I mean, >> I love that idea for you guys.

>> The number going down faster is always more encouraging and more exciting. >> Yes. >> And once you crack under, >> that's what I always look at. If I just can wipe out the the vacation house, it might feel a little bit better.

>> Yeah. I mean, either way, you're going to be in good shape. If you're if you're really going after these with your income, which I mean, you guys are making a couple hundred,000 a year. What's What's the household income at this point?

>> About 300.

>> I mean, if you did one, if you decided, hey, we're going to do the vacation home first, there are worse things you could do like lightning wouldn't strike you.

Nothing nothing bad is there. My thought is just for the purpose of peace and it doesn't hurt that the monthly payments more on that one. Uh, that's the reason that I selected that. But if you guys sat down together and you decided something differently, >> I mean, usually if you have like seven properties, it's almost like you can sort of debt snowball the properties.

But since just your vacation home, I'm in primary. There's really it's it's sort of a, you know, choose your own adventure here based on what excites you guys because that's what's going to keep you going. >> Where is the vacation property?

>> Uh, it's in Ocean City, Maryland. So, it's about about 3 hours from my my primary. >> Very cool. What's it worth?

>> Uh, probably about 450 now. 500.

>> Nice. Okay. And what's your current home worth?

>> About 550 to 600.

>> Okay. Very cool. I think you guys have done really well for yourselves. I think that's really exciting.

>> Thank you. >> What are you going to do? America wants to know. Sean, >> lock in your vote. >> I think I'm going to I think I'm going to chop down that vacation house.

>> Ah, I like it. I'll go back to the primary. >> Since you've done this before with the, you know, the vested RSUs, do you know the tax implications of, you know, selling off 40 grand of those?

>> Yeah. Well, we figured that out a couple years ago the hard way. It it probably turns into >> I did not I appreciate you asking that but no my my my accountant did not tell me that. And uh >> were you under withheld and had a big tax bill? >> Now we know.

>> Were you under withheld and had a big tax bill? Is that what happened?

>> That's what happened. Yep.

>> That's a good lesson learned for anybody out there who has RSUs or really, you know, those restricted stock units or employee stock purchase program or whatever it is. If you sell anything and you have a gain or it counts as income, it ends up in your bank account. The IRS wants their cut. And you don't realize how quickly, Sean, it can bump up into different tax brackets. >> And you go, "Oh, now we went from like 22% effective to 28%. We didn't factor

in that extra 6% of 300 grand or, you know, whatever you brought in. >> More money, mo problems." >> I'm proud of you guys, man. That vacation home is going to it's going to hit different when there's no mortgage attached to it. >> Oh, yeah. You'll be even more excited to visit.

>> Yeah. Thanks so much, guys.

>> Yeah. Send us the invite once it's paid off. >> Yes. >> I'll enjoy it. >> A barbecue. >> I love that. >> Barbecue. I haven't heard the barbecue.

I like that. No barbecue.

>> What was I cookout? >> Yeah, I like >> Is there a difference between a barbecue and a cookout, George? The public wants to know. >> I will say a cookout is a different vibe. >> And how say? >> I think a cookout feels a little bit more communal. >> Okay. Okay. A barbecue feels like, "All right, we're going to be grilling, but it's a one-man show here.

>> Okay, I'm I'm with you." >> A cookout is an experience. >> Cookout is like everybody's coming over.

Everybody's bringing a dish. Yes, George. >> That's that's how I see it from my vantage. >> Barbecue is like it could be any weekend. You just throw something on the grill. >> Yes. >> Got it. Well, I want to uh Sean mentioned something that I think is important to our audience, and that is when you should be purchasing a vacation home. >> Yes. Let's talk about that, George.

>> We see that as a toy.

>> Yes. it's not producing income. And even if it is, if it's an investment property, we still would say that's risk. >> Do you want to know what I think? Can I just The the public wants to know. I think our listeners have figured out uh

a way around. I think they figured out a way. >> We found you guys after we bought the vacation. >> They They know that if they come to us and it's already the deal's been done, we rarely tell them to sell it because we're like, "Okay, we can figure this out." I I'm starting to pick up on that vibe. Are you? >> Yeah. I didn't realize that's a life hack to just go. >> I think that's what's happening. >> Started the baby steps after we bought this giant vacation investment property.

>> Yeah. After we started our real estate portfolio of seven houses.

>> Well, luckily in Sean's case, they are debtree. They're making 300 grand, you know, debtree outside of these mortgages. But a lot of people, they got a bunch of debt. They still have the car loans. They have all these properties. And they think they're real estate gurus. And we go, "How much are you making off of this thing?" 100 bucks a month. actually losing money.

>> But with a vacation home, you want it to be a vacation. >> That's right. You want to be a blessing. >> Paying two mortgages and it's just really a money sucker. You've got to realize that thing is a toy and you want to derisk your life. That is the goal.

So once you've hit baby step seven, meaning your primary mortgage is paid off, then save up and pay cash for any extra homes on top of that, whether it's an investment property or just a vacation home. And if you're Dave Ramsey, you don't mix the two.

>> That's right.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've been turned away by other lenders because your private student loans are out of control, Yrefi may still be able to help. They specialize in refinancing options built specifically for borrowers in that situation. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states.

>> Indeed. Today's question comes from Elizabeth in New Mexico. She says, "Hearing the calls on your show made me realize I want to do better for my son.

He turns 18 this year and just started his first job. He makes between $1500 to $200 a week as a bus boy. He opened a savings account on his own and deposits 50% of his pay. I was never taught anything about emergency funds or investing. I want him to have the freedom to buy a house, go on vacation, and have a good life. How do I set up an IRA for him? And what accounts should he have other than the savings and IRA?

Okay, so let's back it up just a little bit. What I love about Elizabeth's question is she's thinking about her child's future. I don't know any parent who's not doing that. However, you got

to be careful not to put the cart before the horse. And I think that Elizabeth,

if you wanted to have some sort of a, you know, UTMA or you wanted to do a brokerage account for him, that'd be fine. But for him with his money, George, I think the first thing for him to focus on is what's in front of him, which is a new car, you know, collegemals. >> Yeah, those short-term goals. And so, for that reason, I'd like for his money to stay liquid. I would not invest his money at this time. I would do a high yield savings account if he needed it.

obviously a checking account for, you know, day-to-day and month-to-month spending. But if he's saving uh 50% of

his pay, yeah, throw it in a high yield and he can save up for, like I said, a car. He can save up for an apartment. He can save up for uh higher ed, whether that looks like trades or certificates or even, you know, going to a university or community college. And that would be my number one goal for an 18-year-old right now. George, what say you? Well, I love that he has this habit of depositing 50% of his pay. Excellent.

That's the hardest part is just to build that muscle of delayed gratification, living on less than you make. Because if he's doing that making 150 bucks, if he can continue that making 1,500 bucks a week, >> good muscle, >> now we're actually in business. Cuz right now, he's not making enough to do any damage when it comes to a home down payment or a vacation. Right now, he's just an 18-year-old trying to figure out his life. And so, that's where you can step in as mom and him navigate that.

Ask him really good questions. Support him. Find him opportunities where he can figure out that thing he wants to sink his teeth into. And that might mean education. It could mean trade school.

Could be a two-year community college.

Could be four-year. >> Maybe he's an entrepreneur and he wants to start his own thing. You can support him in that. And that's the best thing you can do as a mom. And the investing will come, like Jade said, when the time is right. Yeah. >> Cuz I don't want him going to get a car loan cuz he's been investing all of his money, but doesn't $25,000 for a car.

>> And And I think that's so good. But I think as a parent, the best thing you can do is teach your kids healthy and smart money habits. I know for our kids, so our kids are on um I mean they get

paid for their chores basically. So they get paid Yeah. commission or just paycheck, whatever. So they get they get paid at the end of every week, but Sam and I's rule is you do not get to spend the money until the end of the month.

So the habit that we're trying to build with them is >> I don't spend my money as soon as I get it. So, I get paid every Saturday, but not until the fourth Saturday can I spend. And the other thing that we cause uh that we teach them to do. I can't say we make them do it, but we teach them, okay, if you do want to spend your money, we have them tell us what what's something that you're thinking before we ever go to the store, what's something that you think you need or that you have your eye on.

That way, we're identifying. We don't just go to the store and let the store tell us what we want. >> Let the shelves speak to us. >> Yeah.

We say, "What are you thinking about?" and my daughter said, "I'd like to get roller skates and I was thinking about clothes for my doll." Like, give us three things and then when we go to shop, those are the things we keep our eye out for.

mindset that you want to teach your kids. >> I like that. And we always say more is caught than taught and he's he's been watching mom. He's continuing to watch mom and so he doesn't m it doesn't matter what you say at this point, he's going to be looking at what you do. And so, I love that you're taking this seriously and you having open money conversations. That's a great start to not hide it under a bushel as they say.

>> Yeah, hide it under a bushel. >> All right, Jessica's in Philadelphia up next. Jessica, welcome to the show.

>> Awesome. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. >> We are too. How can we help?

>> So, I'm a single mom as of two and a half years ago, and I have been surviving on my own. Um, I'm a little

bit concerned with my income in the case

that it doesn't go up because I don't

have a great um a great income through

my career because I was I always had a

job to kind of support my marriage, not to support myself as a single mom.

>> Okay. >> So, I only make about 50,000 a year through my 9-to-f5. And then I also have

a side hustle, but I very much rely on

child support to get by to kind of make ends meet. And in a couple of years, >> my child support >> um I get about 2,000 a month in child support. >> So in two years when my oldest turns 18,

that's going to be cut in half. And while I'm doing everything I can to like find a better job and I'm, you know, working my butt on nights and weekends at this side hustle that I'm doing, um,

>> I'm just worried about kind of preparing for that for that change that's happening in two years because I want to make sure that I'm going to be okay.

>> Uh, what do you bring in? So, you've got 50,000 from your main job. What does the side hustle bring in every month?

>> Um, it's it fluctuates a lot. Um, it can

be anywhere between, I don't know, 800 and 2,000.

>> Okay. So, >> it's not consistent and I don't want to rely on that. So, that's >> understand. >> You want to up your core income and we're talking it's going from 24 to 12.

So, the gap we need to fill in two years is 12,000 a year, about a,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> What's your margin as it stands today?

Like when you do your every dollar budget today, how much margin do you have to put towards your next goal?

>> So, I actually just started figuring out how to budget because I've spent the last two years just trying to stand on my own two feet. I never I'm so financially illiterate and I've had to learn a lot over the last two years. So,

and I started from scratch with zero dollars, absolutely nothing to my name.

>> And um so I'm only just starting to get

into the budgeting thing. Okay. And I would say that probably I'm able to put right now about 800 to a,000 into savings. Like I've been trying to dump everything into savings right now.

I do have a car payment too. So I don't know where my money should be going. That's really what >> we can help give you some focus there for sure. >> Yeah.

Us seeing that. So basically your margin would be gone when this happens in two in two years. Uh and I think that there's probably some places that we can find it. You mentioned some debt.

That's I only have a car payment. I have a little bit of debt um to a hospital because my son had to have surgery, but I'm working with the hospital and figuring that out. So, I'm not too worried about that one. >> Okay. >> Um car payment is about the uh hospital

debt is about 3,000. >> Okay. And how much is the car debt?

>> Um I owe 8,500 still.

>> Okay. What's the payment?

>> It's $300 a month.

>> Okay. So, we're a third there. If we can clear up that car payment, do you think >> you'll give yourself a little raise just by paying that off? How much money do you have to your name right now in savings?

>> So, in savings, I have about $13,000.

>> Okay, >> awesome. >> So, I'd actually the the $800 to $1,000

a month that you're putting in savings, I'd actually start applying that to your debt snowball. So, debt snowball is a a

method of attacking debt. And here we teach that taking your income back is the most important thing that you can do, right? Your your income is your biggest wealth building tool. So we would say, hey, first thing you need you need $1,000 saved as a cushion. Next thing we're attacking debt, debt snowball method. We're paying off the debt smallest to largest. I think I heard you say you have 13,000 saved.

>> Yes, >> I would jump in that today. I would pay.

>> What if you paid it off today and you you were left with $4,500, which is still awesome, and next month it's 6,500 if you crush it and get that two grand.

>> How would that feel?

>> I would just be It's taken me so long to get to the 13,000. It would it would make me nervous. I mean,

>> I guess I can always work more.

>> Well, well, let's do let's do math because math it helps set everything straight. The truth is you don't have 13,000 saved.

Okay, you got 12

in debt, so you have $1,000. That's the truth. >> That's the on paper math.

>> On paper math. You only have $1,000 to your name anyway. So, you may as well pay off the debt and make it so and then keep adding to it. >> Debt-free emergency fund, then begin investing. You'll be on the path if you just start focusing your money. You got this.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

But you know what else? There's more of spending. Oh, between the extra groceries and gas and camp fees and family trips, it all starts to add up so fast. And before you know it, money stress starts to steal the fun out of everything. And that is why I love the

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Buying or selling your home is a huge deal and you want an expert in your corner who is fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price or get the most for your home if you're selling. And the Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home buying or selling a blessing, not a burden. It's easy. compare agent profiles, you interview them, you choose the right one to work with, and you can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/ aent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Mark is in Birmingham up next.

>> Hey, how are you guys doing today?

>> We're doing great. What's going on with you? >> Thank you for having me. >> Sure. >> So, I have a little predicament. Um, oh,

not a predicament, I guess, but I'm wondering if you guys think that it is okay for me to quit my job because I'm

basically working two full-time jobs with my side business as well that I've built. Um, and I honestly hate my

nineto-ive. Absolutely hate it. Got a new boss and >> it has become uh extraordinarily u difficult for me to even get up in the morning and want to go. Wow. What sort of things are happening here? >> What's your job so I can make sure I don't I never do it. Don't apply, George. >> Uh, well, I'm in retail. I'm in retail.

I've been in retail for my entire adult life and uh I built a YouTube channel up

and basically now it's my dad laughs at

me because he thinks that I should just quit. But I do have insurance through my job and that's of course a very important thing. Uh, you know, I'm 30 years old now, so I'm getting older and trying to take care of my health as well. Uh, but >> what do you make from the YouTube channel and what do you make from retail?

>> Uh, so retail, I bring home a salary of

like 3,200 a month. Uh, bring home and

YouTube is kind of up and down depending on like if I have brand deals or if it's a good month, bad month, whatever. Uh but on average uh here this year I've

made around8 to $9,000 a month just off of YouTube.

>> And what I double and triple your income.

>> Yeah. In like good months I can like I've made 15 to 20 grand off of YouTube

and months before. >> I mean isn't that enough that you could buy your own insurance and you wouldn't need to be on the retail company's insurance if that's the only thing keeping you at that job?

>> The benefits. >> I could. I just I just don't know how expensive that would be. Even though I do have like a LLC and everything, I just really haven't >> Mark, I got your homework assignment right here. Okay. When you're done with the call, go to healthtrustfinancial.com.

They're a health insurance broker that we recommend that can shop for you to

find you the best, >> okay, >> coverage at the best price. So, once you have that information, you're going to feel more confident to go, okay, it's 1,200 bucks a month for the coverage I need. Great. I can stomach that considering your mental health is on the line and you're making triple with YouTube pretty consistently. How how consistent has this been that you've made more than, you know, four grand a month on YouTube every month for the last year? >> Uh last Yeah. Uh yeah. Uh last month was

my worst month I've had uh in like the last three years and I made five grand.

>> Cool. So you know that's the floor right now.

>> Yeah. I I I'm at uh like 115,000 subscribers and you know it's continuously growing and >> What kind of channel is what kind of content do you do?

>> Yeah, I I looking it up. What What are you called? >> I just want to know. >> Uh okay. Um Okay. He got kicks is the name. So we

changed my name from Mark to something else. Uh because I don't like everybody knowing how much money I have. >> You said he got kicks. I see you.

>> Yeah. With Yeah. >> There we go. >> And uh Yeah. And I've done that and I've

saved up like $135,000.

>> Well, dude, there there you go. There's your offramp. Even if you need some cushion, >> this is the channel I need to be following. >> You got the right person on the call, Mark, cuz Jade's a big She's a shoe head, I think, is what they're called.

>> Sneaker head. >> Sneaker head. That's how old I am.

>> He said a shoe head. That's okay. I'll take it.

>> It's It's fine. That's how cool I am.

>> I Listen, when you tell me the numbers, >> dude, put your two weeks in to tomorrow.

>> Cuz here's the thing. If you decide that, oh man, I want this $3,200 back,

go get another retail job, right?

>> Retail will always be there. They're always going to need marks of the world.

But right now, you you enjoy this YouTube stuff, right?

>> Oh, it it's my passion. It really and honestly saved my life. >> How many hours are you putting into it right now with your retail job?

every >> with retail I'm at with retail I'm at 40 and with YouTube I'm at least at 75 to 80 like

>> I do it you know because I'm also trying to build another channel as well about technology and trying to >> build that up as well. So I'm really

>> dude I would I would ride this training

>> follow the passion it's been lucrative for you and it seems like you have cracked a code that many are trying to crack. So, keep going in that direction.

Yeah. >> And you can afford I'm telling you, you can afford health insurance for yourself. Is it just you or is it an entire family?

>> Uh, it's just me. My girlfriend lives with me and I mean she makes like 75 grand a year, too. But I mean, >> and it's just then it's just for you.

You can afford that. >> Yeah, correct. >> Congrats, Mark. You just earned another subscriber from Jade today.

That's exciting. >> Wait, let me go and click the sub. Let me smash that. Let me smash that subscribe button.

>> That's pretty cool. And it is true, Jade. I mean, it's crazy. We'll talk to like a 13-year-old who's making seven grand a month from YouTube.

It's just a different environment. >> Different environment. >> And not everyone's going to understand it, but it sounds like even your family's supportive. Your dad's laughing at you saying, "Dude, you made n grand a month >> from this YouTube channel.

It's time to go. >> Why are you spending 40 hours a week in retail?" I love it. That's a great subscribe. >> Great story.

>> You got kicks. >> That's the American dream right there is becoming a YouTuber. Liz is in Omaha. Up next, Liz, how can we help?

you? >> I'm Jaden George.

>> What's going on?

>> Um, so, um, how can I let go of my

savings account that I've built over

over a decade? Uh, I'm a workaholic and

I work about 60 to 80 hours a week and

uh, the only debt I really have is about 500 in credit cards just I pay it off

each year. I mean each month.

>> Okay. >> And uh, and I got in a hit and run

accident in 2023 and I financed a car.

>> Oh, what's left on the balance? So, uh,

about $12,6

I think $75.

>> And how much do you have in savings?

>> So, I have two bank accounts. I moved up

here in Omaha in from South Carolina.

And in my South Carolina bank account, I have about $12,667.

>> Okay. >> In a CD. Actually, actually it's in a CD

and I have 800 in the savings account in

that same bank. And then the bank that I use right now, I have 38,000

and about a thousand in checking. Um I I

just found you guys in February, end of February, beginning of March, and now I'm just obsessed with you guys. I listen to you guys 24/7.

And uh I did the baby steps backwards. I

opened a Roth IRA a couple months ago and my savings account is now 38,000.

So I had 47,000 in my Wells Fargo and

now I just can't I can't get myself to

to make that last because I I could

really pay off this car like right now if I wanted to. >> Yeah. just take the 12,000 from the one savings account and and knock it out and then cash flow out this. Yeah, why not?

>> I mean, look at the reality of this. You pay off this car and you're left with $25,000.

Can you live with that? Can you stack back up some cash?

>> I mean, I work two jobs now. I probably could. >> Yeah. I mean, you're a workaholic.

You're a save aolic. It's time to be a debtree aholic. How about that? What are you making from these two jobs? From these 80 hours a week?

>> Uh $15 from cover from Culver's and uh

I'm a vendor. So I make $22 an hour and

I do about >> I will say this. I will say this to you, Liz. I might look for some jobs that are a little bit higher paying so that you're not having to work 80 hours to get the same result because that'll break your back after a while. If you can work 40 to get the same amount of pay, you'll get your mental health back and you won't have to be so aggressive in every other area.

But I would pay off the car today. And if you don't sleep good at night with a paid off car, you can always go get another loan.

Listen, your home is your most expensive asset, and now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this wackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

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Our

scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3:es 1 and 2. There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens. A time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot.

Michael Alt Schuler said, "The bad news is time flies. The good news is you're the pilot." Look at that. >> All right. Okay. I am the pilot of time

in my own life, I guess. Okay, >> I was thinking >> I'll chew on that one, Michael. >> Yeah, >> thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. Neil is in Grand Rapids up next. What's going on, Neil?

>> Hi, Jade and George. Thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> I'm retiring next year and my wife and I are both 75 years old and we've been married for 59 years. I think we're in great >> Thank you. Uh I think we're in great shape financially. My wife is still a little nervous. If you do the math, we were married when we were 16 years old.

>> Wow. >> And I was a father at 16. So, talk about baby steps. >> Amazing.

>> Yes. And I was working at a car wash.

So, I understand why she's a little nervous about uh money because we started out dirt poor. Um she doesn't

want to go back to being poor. But I think we're in good shape. Our kids are all grown. They're all financially okay.

I don't plan on leaving money to them intentionally.

And I think uh here's what we have. We

have our home is worth $350,000.

We have a $63,000 mortgage at 2 and

3/4%.

We have social security after taxes of $41,000 a year.

We have a 401 worth about $450,000.

We have a Roth IRA at about 150,000

and we usually carry about 40 or 50,000 in our bank checking account. Beyond

that, we have cars and antiques worth about another 100,000.

>> Are the cars paid off?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. Um, >> so we have no other bills.

>> So the social security, what is that 3,000 a month >> about? Yes. Mhm.

>> Is that enough to can you live solely off the social security or do you need how much do you pull out of the would you be pulling out of the 401k and the Roth? >> I would think we kind of did it and it's going to be a little hard to figure but about uh another $10,000 per year.

>> Okay. Is what you need out of the retirement accounts. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> We'll call it 12. So what's your question today? >> Well, I'd like to uh take time for

travel and entertainment. I'm looking at about $15,000 a year, maybe 20. Uh that

I think we should be able to enjoy our lives over the next, you know, 15 years.

Uh that's going to 90. Um I think I'm

aggressively uh I mean aggressively on our 401s,

etc., But I think I would uh downplay

that down to about a 50% short-term

after I'm retired, 30% in an index fund,

and 20 in an FDIC.

So, I do the math and it looks like we're okay, but again, my wife's a

little nervous and I get it. Um, >> so would you be pulling from retirement instead of pulling 12, you'd pull 24?

>> Yes, >> something like that. Okay. Yep. I mean, I'm crunching some some napkin math here. If you had a 24 run retirement, let's say you guys live to be 99 and just using your 600 grand, if you needed to pull 24 grand a year from retirement, you have a 99.2% success rate. And that's not counting the antiques, the money. So mathematically, you're okay.

And I would have her and you sit down with a Smart Vest pro to actually show her these projections to show her just how small of a chance there is of failure with these numbers. Now, if you ramp it up to they'll show you, hey, if you ramp it up to 36 instead of 24, you could run into problems if you guys live to be 100. >> Sure. >> And then you guys can have actual facts instead of Right. Now it's just all emotion.

>> Right. Right. And I understand the first 10 years for our marriage, we were struggling. Uh and then we, you know, started investing late. I had a business so I didn't invest in a 401 until I was probably 50. Uh so, you know, it went

from there. But >> what's your mortgage payment? >> Understand it. >> Pardon me. >> What's the mortgage payment every month?

>> Mortgage payment? I don't I think it's $700 approximately.

>> Okay. I was just wondering if she'd if there was a compromise here where you said, "Hey, we're going to sell off some of the antiques, pay off the mortgage.

That'll free up 700 bucks. Would that make you feel better about us loosening the purse strings a little bit and enjoying our retirement?" >> I'll tell you, it'd make me feel better.

>> Yes. Well, she doesn't want to pay off the mortgage because I I suggested we do that with

>> Well, because she's earned she's worked our way to a 2.75 interest rate and she's very proud of that and she likes knowing that we have

paying the bills. She does a good job with it and I think there's a little security there. >> You said she likes paying the bill.

>> There's security in owning her own home free and clear, not the bank owning it.

She'd still pay the taxes, >> right? Right. >> Let her pay the insurance and taxes and she can have a field day. But if she's worried about money and she's also saying, "I want to keep my $700 payment." Well, now we have two conflicting opinions. Do you want to keep the interest rate or do you want to enjoy retirement? >> Right. >> I mean, you said you're going to work for one more year.

>> Yes. If you reached over and you paid off the mortgage and then for se for for the next year you put the 700 back and reinvested it along with what you're doing now. That feels pretty good to me.

>> Yeah, I think so. And that's what I was talking about too. So yeah, I think she's going to be okay. She's probably listening. Uh I'm working out of town, but uh just knowing that somebody else agrees with me. I think she knows and

but we just want to enjoy ourselves.

>> What kind of work do you do, Neil? Yeah, I'm a CEO right now. I did uh construction most of my life, but I've been a CEO for 20 years.

>> And fantastic.

>> Way to go. Proud of you guys and congrats on 59 years. That's >> enjoying retirement. Cuz the truth is, Neil, you're 75.

I hope you guys live to 100, but we don't know what the future holds. >> And some people hoard the money and go, "Well, when we're 80, we'll enjoy it." And then there's a health problem and now they can't travel and they can't enjoy it. >> And so there's a great book, too, called Die with Zero. I don't agree with everything in the book, but the general premise is pretty good of enjoy your money while you're alive and spoil your kids while you're alive and not hoard it until they're in their 60s and you give them a million bucks that they don't need anymore.

>> There's a time for everything.

>> That's right. >> It's time to live. So, I hope she's listening, Neil, and I hope that helps.

But I would sit down with a professional who can run these actual numbers and show her the truth and show you the guard rails. Hey, you can spend between this and this and be totally fine. Even in a worst case scenario, here's where you'd be. So, I hope that helps. Thomas is in Bentonville, Arkansas. Thomas, what's your question today?

>> Hi there. I make about 50,000 a year

take-home and I was just curious on how you guys could how to afford a house.

Um, that income is subject to change due to uh promotions in the future. I'm only 23 years old. Well, I'm baby step three right now and we're just trying to build an a nice emergency fund because we're a one inome household with a little boy at home. >> Oh, sweet. >> And that's you want to keep it that way.

Let's you want to keep her at home, keep you working, and let's increase the income so that we can become homeowners instead of continuing to rent.

>> Yes. What do things cost in your area to have the the type of home that you're thinking of reasonably? What would you have to spend?

>> Uh, right around 300,000 right now. Um,

there's nothing within an hour. Uh,

there's nothing within an hour of work >> that we can afford with the 25% rule.

>> Yeah. And I was going to say, you know, the 25% rule, that's good. And you're bringing home what is that around 3500 a month?

>> Yeah, around. Okay, a little more actually. 3900.

>> Okay, 39 that banks >> cuz right now that means a $1,000 mortgage payment which as you can imagine very difficult with today's housing prices and interest rates which means we need to either save more for the down payment or change the home price and that's going to take some patience and getting your income up. So that's what I would be focused on. You're 23, that's a great income. I would focus on what can I do to start making 60 70 80 over the next couple of years so that you have more margin to stack for the down payment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And let me just encourage you that 23 is so young.

>> And the average age now, Jade, is like 38 to 40 for first time home owners. So >> I wouldn't be in a rush, Thomas, but I would be very intentional on working on my income, staying debtree, setting a goal, you and your wife sitting down saying, "Hey, we're going to save >> 24,000 a year. That's 2,000 a month. We got to sock away into this high yield savings account. What must be true for us to get there? I need to go make more money. We need to cut down our expenses.

Hope that helps. That puts this hour of the show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 62. Financial Peace Starts With Personal Honesty | March 19, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm your host Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart [music] Money Happy Hour on Ramsey Networks, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Logan is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey Logan, what's up?

Hey, how you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can we help, sir?

Um I started a business 18 months ago.

Um I've been working 70 to 100 hours a week. Uh right now we're barely breaking even. I have two full-time jobs and I have a 7-week-old at home. Um so, I'm wondering uh at what point do you decide when to exit the business?

Um and if there's a good workflow for that.

Um I guess just kind of a general question around that. What's what your thought would be?

Okay. Um well, you exit a business not when it's hard because 100% of the time you run a business is hard.

Okay. Um you exit a business when uh you

lose hope that in a reasonable period of time this

is going to be profitable and all of my effort is going to be worth the trouble.

Um we don't want to run a business for 10 years that's not profitable. That's called a hobby and a bad one.

Right? So, but you're a whole year in. Um when did you think you were going to be profitable?

Uh well, I didn't I I predicted about 3 years before we started um I started being able to take any money out of the business.

Um but I thought it would be self-sustaining about where we're at right now and we're >> Self-sustaining? Or you thought it'd be breaking even?

Yeah, I thought it'd be um let me rephrase. I thought I could uh pay somebody to run it part-time um

by now and I I actually have somebody running it part-time. We have a it's a slow bleed. It's not killing me unless I well, with with the second job >> money? To pay somebody to run it, yes. For the first 8 months we were open, I I have a I work from home. I actually worked >> What do you do? What What is the business? The business is it's a gym and then there's actually a second business which is a supplement shop within that business. So, there's two of them technically.

>> You opened a gym Yep. as a side hustle.

Uh I guess Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah.

Okay. And >> Are either one of those profitable? The the gym itself or the supplements business inside of the gym?

It's inside of the gym, yes. The gym is

profitable. They Together, the gym is profitable and then the supplements I actually that's where I run my payroll out of and that has a slight loss every month. So, they about break even with a like maybe $100 a month loss.

Okay. So, you can handle a $100 a month.

What What is your What is your income on your regular job?

Um well, with between the two of them I I take home about >> make any You don't take anything home from the gym. No, with from the jobs I I

gross >> You have two other jobs.

You have two other jobs.

I'm sorry. Stop again. You have two jobs in addition to the gym?

Yes. Okay. So, what is your main career?

Uh I am a data analyst.

>> Okay. And what do you make as a data analyst?

Uh I gross 200 with both jobs.

And they're both data analyst jobs?

Yeah. Yep. Okay. So, is there one that

is substantially more than the other or 100 each?

They're about 100 each. One has significantly better benefits. The other one's a contract position which is um renewed every 6 months. So, it's not

guaranteed, I guess. It's not guaranteed employment. Okay. And your your wife is at home with the baby.

Correct. Okay. So, you're making $200,000 a year.

You have a business that's leaving losing $100 a month.

Yes. I don't know what What's the problem?

The problem is it's not it's actually it's in a it's in a negative. I don't have the time Right now, I don't have the time to put into the business because I have both jobs. >> Well, you would had that when you started the business.

Yeah, and we were doing we were doing well and then I had I got the second job

to add somebody to run it and then this person is running it part-time and it needs about 15 hours a week of my attention to you know, it needs an it needs some overview. The day-to-day is taken care of, but it needs a you know, the a a growth trajectory.

>> Yeah, that that didn't change though.

That's what you signed up for a year ago.

Yep. Okay. So, what you've added to your plate that is causing things to fall off of your plate is the contract job. It's not the gym.

Uh yes, but I need the contract job cuz of the the I need to get out of debt.

The There's I have at least I needed to pay off at least 20,000 in debt. Yes.

Oh, you have debt. >> had Yes, the gym has about $80,000 in debt to start it up. Oh, Jesus. What a bad

idea. >> [sighs and gasps] >> Yeah, I learned that the hard way.

Oh, man. I'm catching on now. Okay. I I just I was looking at the income streams. I didn't think about that. I'm sorry. My bad. Um

Okay. >> The the the business is >> How old are you?

29. Okay. Can you cut the contract back to half the number of hours for 50,000?

Uh I can I can ask. It's an it's an hourly rate. So, possibly.

>> Okay. To where you can breathe.

Actual logistics on just time. Okay? Cuz

you have a full-time job plus a part-time job then plus another part-time job at the gym because we really just can't walk away from the $80,000 in debt 1 year in when it's

doing exactly what was projected to do.

The only thing that changed is you just kept adding crap to cuz you wanted to get the 80,000 paid off and you can't get it all done in a day.

Uh essentially, yeah. >> You stressed yourself out by adding stacks and stacks and stuff stuff to your plate.

And the baby made you realize that.

Yeah, that was that was a Yeah, that's that was the straw.

That was the straw that broke the camel's back, you know, and that's okay.

That's a that's a great straw. That's a If you're going to have one, that's the one to have. But, the uh uh yeah. So,

you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit down and look at this. I'm going to talk to my wife and I'll say, "All right. For 4 more months, 6 more

months, 2 more months, 8 more months, I'm going to keep the exact schedule I'm keeping right now so I can keep 200 coming in and I'm going to knock X out of that 80,000 and it's going to cost us cuz I

am burning the candle at both ends and in the middle. But, I can't do that forever. I can do it for this amount of time and we're prayerfully going to you know, you're going to give me a lot of grace and you're not going to expect super dad to be there every time the kid poops its diaper. I've got to get this thing out of the ditch.

Okay. >> Okay. And um I started this business when Rachel was a baby and it was 80 hours a week.

And Sharon and I agreed to that.

And she never whined one time after we agreed to that. But, we also said there's a limited amount of time a human being can do this without exploding.

And so, you need to decide what that is.

You're You're sensing that that that that that things are on fire because they're on fire. So, the way to uh survive that is to go as close to the

fire as you can get without getting burned and go, "Okay, the most I can do is 90 more days and then I'm going to pull back to part-time on the contract >> [music] >> so that I can breathe again. But, in the meantime I'm going to pour the coals on and see how much of this debt I can knock out so I've got better options." You don't have really good options right now.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Kate is in Billings, [music] Montana. Hi Kate, how are you?

Hi good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I wanted to talk to you today about my husband. Um he loves new trucks and

he has switched trucks about seven times in the last 6 years.

And he changed uh vehicles twice last year.

Um and so he usually just texts me when

when he's making this change and I've tried to talk to him about how it's a bigger deal than that because we are are usually losing money on this transaction. Oh every time.

Yes.

So I just wanted your thoughts. How much do you guys make a year, Kate?

Um so he's actually making quite a bit of money now, but uh this is new for us.

So he uh founded his own technology company doing logistics and it grossed

about a million dollars last year.

What did it net?

Uh I I think 1.4. It netted? You pay

taxes on a million dollars?

Yes. Gross and net is different, you know that.

Okay, sorry. I might be >> [laughter] >> Okay, I didn't think you did. >> What did you bring home? What what hit your accounts?

Your household income. What did What did he bring home? Our household income was over 600. I know we owed a ton in taxes, so. Okay.

So he can afford to lose the money.

That's but but he's disrespecting his wife.

Yes. So we we have three kids and um

uh he's my second husband and so

this is just all I think it's just all um we're still going through growing pains of how do we manage money together and A couple of years, you ought to be able to figure it out.

You can grow a company that makes 1.2 million, you ought to be able to figure out how to manage money.

Yeah. He just hasn't bothered.

I mean He's kind of running around doing whatever the flip he wants to do cuz he's making money and he doesn't you know, and in the process is disrespecting you.

That's how I feel. Yeah, no that's that's what is observable.

It's not just a feeling.

Kate, what does he say when you text him? Or what's his response when you guys talk about it and you're frustrated?

What does he say? Just like it's So it typically it gets us into an argument because he kind of I don't think he likes being told what to do or you know, how to spend his money, but he denies that he's he's

disrespecting me or not you know, consulting with me, but his idea of consulting with me is basically just Telling you. >> texting me telling me what he's going to do. Um so that's kind of where we're in disagreement and we don't >> he's going to fail as an entrepreneur.

And the reason I know that is I coach 10,000 businesses through EntreLeadership.

And entrepreneurs who do not listen to their wives don't make it long-term.

You cannot out-earn that level of stupidity. I tried it, it doesn't work.

And it'll get you. Okay? So the arrogance that is attached to this means he's also not listening to his key leaders when they're speaking up and saying this is a dumb idea. He's not listening to anybody.

Because he's freaking thinks he's Superman and this is going to lead to him hitting the wall.

So I'm scared I'm really really afraid for him. Because right now this isn't a big enough problem that it's actually causing him any discomfort.

But the the root of this is very very

dangerous from a business perspective.

Because leaders that don't have humility and take input from proper sources do not lead well.

And it's pretty simple. And so um I mean I've got key people on this team, some of them have been with me 30 years and they're like brothers and sisters to me and they speak into the Ramsey thing that happens here and and believe you me to the extent that she wants to, Sharon Ramsey speaks into this place and and what's going on. Uh do I do we do every single thing Sharon wants to do? No, but we don't do every single thing Dave wants to do either. So um but

but you guys have a breakdown in your relationship and the power of the relationship. It's almost as if he has his life over to one side and then he comes home and has a family.

>> what feels always a little bit off. It's disjointed. Yeah, and even when he uses like well I've been making a lot of money, so I get to go over here, right?

It's like this it's it turns into this isolated instance where that's the opposite of marriage, right? When you're married to someone and you're doing life with someone, it should be integrated, right? You're still going to have your own thoughts and opinions, it's not that, but it but it's that we make big decisions together, we talk about this, we are united in these things. So all of

this to say that your your your frustration with this I think and Rachel thinks is accurate. Now, what to do about it is another thing. I'm afraid for him.

Long-term. Five years from today this is not going to be pretty is my prediction. And I coach again, we coach 10,000 businesses here at Ramsey. We work with small businesses every day and I see them come and I see them go and I watch what happens. So what what I would say is that I think

you guys have a marriage problem that has a deep deep root to it and I would

say that I love you guys and I want the two of you to get some healing in that.

And so if I'm if you're my little sister, I'm going to say, "Hey Kate, um stir up some trouble and let's get into the marriage counselor's office uh because he thinks this is okay and you've let it go on and you're going to get what you tolerate." >> And any level any level of belittling, which you're feeling and thinking too, right? They use the term gaslighting all the time, but genuinely you you start to feel crazy, Kate, right? And in and until your voice and your opinion is heard and actually honored, like it

that's going to start breaking down in other areas, not just buying a new truck every year. Yeah, it it's it's already breaking down uh stuff down at the office that you don't even know is happening. Promise you. And it could even be worse than that.

I hope it's not. But these are symptoms that don't lead uh of course problems that don't lead to good places. >> No, and it's a perfect example how money's a magnifying glass that makes you more of what you are.

And when you and when you win financially really quickly like you guys have over, you know, 1 to 2 years, it's almost like you don't they he doesn't even have the emotional capacity to handle it. He's just still that little boy in him that's just being magnified and he just got to buy a new truck, you know, and so >> a Tonka truck. Yeah, that's that's tough. I'm four.

I want a new Tonka truck, Mommy. Don't tell me I can't have it.

Yeah. Well that's the other thing, too, is I'm like, Kate's a smart woman and if you look at the numbers, to your point, they can afford that. Like if he wanted to go do that, so it's not >> Honestly, he can afford to do it. It it's just the process is usually the >> I'm saying is like it's not even that she would say no to it either, but it's just the not the right way.

I'm afraid he's scratching an itch that's not that's >> Yes.

>> cars. I'm a car guy and I like cool cars and fun cars and I buy cars, um but I don't have a an emotional need

Yeah. to flip a truck every year.

I I'm perfectly happy with the one I got, you know? And so um There's something in that, too.

>> Yeah, I mean, you know, you just got to get there there's something going on. So you guys you really need to sit down with someone that forces him to hear

that it's not necessarily the transaction that's bothersome, it's the way the transaction's going down.

And that you're not being heard and you're not being respected and you're not so you're not crazy.

And I'm afraid that the stuff that's under this is going to come to roost in a way y'all aren't going to like in the long-term. I'm pretty sure it will. And I I >> Unless Unless >> Unless you don't Unless you fix it. >> Yeah, and unless he comes aware and you come, you know, all of it and you guys start a new a new process of life of the way you look look at things and think about things and process things, all of it out of healing.

>> So if you're out there and you're running a small business and your spouse has no idea what's going on at the business, it's a problem, y'all. That's what I'm telling you. You small business people, you can listen to me. Okay?

You bootstrap stuff, you fight, you scratch, you claw, you're in a battle every day.

the and and you finally start making some money, but in the middle of that you become very very lonely if you do not have people [music] walking with you in leadership. And that and who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no

lack of gain.

>> [music] >> You want no lack of gain?

I want no lack of gain. I like that formula. >> [music] >> Then trust a virtuous wife.

Hm. In the multitude of counsel there's safety.

I bet you 10 rich friends get around him. Not one of them will tell him to buy a truck every stinking year.

I promise you.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Well, the Ramsey Show watching this show happen as we tape it right in front of you is going on tour next [music] month. In April, we're going to be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim.

If you've never experienced the Ramsey Show in person, then you've never seen it like this before. It's a perfect date night. One of you is a spender, one of you is a saver. Come out. Rachel, John, George, Jade, Ken will settle your money debates right there in front of all the people in the audience.

>> [laughter] >> Uh tickets are almost sold out, but not quite. There's a few left and just a couple of VIP seats remaining. Don't wait. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Michael's in Green Bay. Hey Michael, what's up?

Hey Dave, it's nice talking to you. Um I listen to your show quite a bit and I am about 20 years old with about 50 grand

in debt. Wow.

30 of that being a car loan, um three of it being from a Square loan

from the business that I shut down here recently and some of it's medical, like

just outstanding medical debt, like I mean, I was in a motorcycle accident 3 years ago that I still haven't paid. Um I owe a friend of a fan or family friend about 3

grand. Um I owe like a tire shop almost

2 grand. Like I I guess my question that

I want to ask you today is like I don't know where to start with this because it feels like a lot. And I truthfully don't know where a lot of the debt is. Um like I owed a Dermatology Group, sorry, like

800 bucks and I owe like other medical companies money and I just don't know exactly where all that debt is, where the creditors are. Like every now and now and then I get calls >> Yeah, Michael. So, and it's just so >> how how has your life been so chaotic in the last two or three years that this has happened and cuz it sounds like you're just spiraling, man. Sounds like chaos.

>> I yeah. I I'd agree. Yeah, truthfully it is and

2 years ago I started my own business with my best friend.

Um it we found a building to go into and

truthfully it just kind of took off like crazy. Um and >> it and then it didn't.

>> [clears throat] >> Correct. I had bought him out of the business, went solo.

Um I got in some trouble, small trouble with my previous accountant. Um I even owe my previous accountant 800 bucks and

and they did no work for me. They filed my taxes late for me.

Um so I I'm finally out of the tax debt um I had an employee at the time. I guess like >> So, you at the end of the day you really weren't making a lot of money because all the bills weren't paid unless you were spending it on cocaine or something. Where did the money go? Um so, honestly, I was really bad at saving and I wish I did it better.

If I I'm not saving, honey. I mean, you got these little $800 bills that aren't paid.

Honestly, I I It sounds dumb, but I was. I was making >> would you say the money went? $120,000 Where would you say the money went? >> food every day.

Food >> A $120,000 worth of food?

I wouldn't say it's all food, but like a lot of just really short small spending that just leaked. I I decided to get a German Shepherd last year.

Um I just You're going to kill me for this. I just traded in a 2023 Tesla Model 3 just last night for a truck. Um

because the Wisconsin winters, obviously an electric vehicle's not going to do Last night? Like literally like like 12 hours ago? Yes.

Oh my god. >> Like quite literally last night. >> Michael. Michael. You said you've been listening to this show.

I have been. I know. I I know.

I Wait. Okay, what are you doing? What what are you Okay, Michael. Michael.

Michael, what are you doing right now for a job? What are you doing? I currently work for a automotive supplier. Um I make a base

salary of 45 a year.

Um after commission, give or take, it's about roughly 50. Okay. And you just

bought a $30,000 car.

Yes. Okay. You need to call them back on and tell them to cancel the transaction that you're not going through with it.

As soon as you get off the phone. So, but my thing is is I traded in my old car for a >> going to argue with me about something that's stupid?

You're really not going to argue with me about something that's stupid, are you?

Please tell me that you want to have a better life than you have. You keep doing stupid stuff, you're going to have a stupid life, honey.

That thing last night was absolute freaking brain damage. You understand that?

Yeah. I mean, dude, really.

I love you, but good god, that was dumb.

So, kind of can I say my point of view really quick on that? Not really. You can just call them back and cancel the transaction or you can get have a good life. All right, Jordan is in Kansas City. Hey Jordan, how are you?

Hello, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I was wondering if I should pay down my student loan burden with single stocks that I hold. You could pay down your what?

Uh student loan debt. Oh, cool. How much student loan debt have you got?

Uh just a little under $170,000.

>> Whoa, are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Uh veterinarian. Oh, good. What do you make?

Currently, I make about 70,000.

Wow. You must have just got out.

Yeah, I graduated a few years ago.

Um currently in internships.

Um they kind of begs the next question.

I'm actually gone into a program to specialize, but um that program being a

residency program pays less actually than what I make now. Yeah, you got to You don't need to be in a residency program. You're broke. You need to be making 130,000 as a veterinarian, not 70.

Right. Yeah. >> And the going market for a Are you Are you fully licensed DVM now?

Yeah, fully licensed. Okay, you need to be making 130, not 70, and you don't need to go into a residency for specialization. You're broke.

You went in debt to become a DVM. Now go be one, dude. And go back and do the Go back and do your specialization in 5 years.

Yeah. Okay. So, even even with the upside of making over 200 post post

um residency um Yeah, 5 years from now I think that's a great idea. But you'll make a lot more than 200 as a DVM that owns his own practice, too.

Mhm. So, why don't you go be a DVM, clean up the debt, then open your own practice with some cash, and you'll make more than 200, and then you can decide if you actually want to specialize.

Mhm. Okay. You You do know this is true, right? I mean, we work with DVMs all over America. They're some of the people we coach. I know what the numbers look like. I mean, the typical one makes between 130 and 150 as a salary working for

someone else.

And when you open your own practice and start running the actual business aspect of it, you generally are going to go 200 to a quarter of a million.

Mhm. I'm I'm assuming some mix between small animal and large animal here. I'm not assuming just racehorses or something like that. We're doing just >> All right, forget about the small animal or the racehorse industry, right? >> Cuz people spend money on their pets in America. Mhm. George Camel will employ

you for a full year. >> will keep you keep you He'll pay off your debt single-handedly.

>> [laughter] >> Oh my god. >> yes, if you have single stocks, you can cash those in. You'll pay taxes, but then you will have money.

And I would be working on getting your income up immediately. And try to get this paid off in in 2 to 3 years, right?

If you're making that kind of money. So, just live on nothing. So, here Jordan, look around the DVM world, okay? It is being corporate It's being taken over by corporate America. And if you want to be an employee of corporate America, go get your specialization.

If you want to be self-employed and control your own destiny and own your

business and own your own butt and not somebody else owns your butt, then you can not specialize, use this stock to get this knocked down, get your income up as an employee right now, and then go

with a plan 4-year plan 5-year plan opening your own thing. If you want to add specialization to that on the side, but I would not have it as my long-term goal to be an employee with specialization as a DVM.

And you're going to end up cuz you're going to end up working for corporate America and they're going to piss on you. And so it it it's welcome to the medical field. And so

I work with these guys all the time. This is the advice we give them. They can you can own your you can own a piece

of your whole community when you own a DVM practice.

The people that are loyal to you they're more loyal to you than anything else when it's their dog or their cat.

They'll do anything for you.

You're like part of their family. And that's a whole lot different than being an employee of corporate America.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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>> [music]

>> Landon is with us in Memphis. Hi, Landon. How are you?

Hey Dave and Rachel, I appreciate y'all taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Uh so, just the context behind this is Dave, I had a call with you when I was 22 years old um and you told me that if I did exactly what you said that I would be a millionaire by the time I was 32.

And we were able to accomplish that by the time we were 28. So, I just want to let you know that uh you know, y'all y'all mean the world to us and my children's children will be grateful for y'all one day. So, I really appreciate y'all. >> Proud of you, man. Excellent.

>> Man. You should call you should call the guy from the last segment.

>> [laughter] >> So, with that being said, this is probably going to sound so stupid, but I'm so um nervous to make a dumb decision after what we've worked so hard for that I just had to get y'all's advice on it. So, um we're worth the right at about a million one, maybe maybe a little bit less than that, and we have 15 acres of property that we want to build a house on. Um my house currently is paid for, and the issue is I just bought this house 2 years ago new, and then of course we have a guy move in next door with his mom that just got out of prison after 20 years for child crimes.

freaking sucks that I can't let my kids in the backyard to play because he will watch them through the fence pickets.

Um not but once. Jeez.

Yeah, so it really really sucks. And so,

with that we just want to go ahead and build this house on this property, but the problem is is what There's There's basically two to three options. Number one, we can take out a construction loan to go ahead and start the build, once it's done sell our house and pay off the construction loan, but the problem with that is we feel like we're violating what we've been so committed to for this many years that it's kind of heartbreaking to do it. Um that's number one.

process, have to figure out the dog situation >> a creep coming next door though, Landon, don't don't you guys want to out? I I agree. I agree. >> I want to go rent to get away from the creepo. Mhm. Cuz otherwise I'm going to end up in jail for murdering him.

>> Okay. Yeah, [snorts] I agree. I agree.

So, you would you would just go ahead, sell it, rent, move twice, deal with the dog situation, the whole deal.

>> they they the the benefit of getting away from the creepo is it also frees up the money to do the build.

I agree. I do agree. I would I would I would love nothing more than to not do a construction loan on the stupid thing. >> Yeah, and and and you guys will be somewhere 9 to 12 months, and it won't be super fun, but you you would look at I mean that just goes so fast time-wise.

Do you know what I mean? Like it just it's going to be for a a quick time. So, and [laughter] here here's the thing. Here's the thing. You you're a millionaire.

Way to go. You're 28 years old. Way to

go. What's your household income?

Uh last year I made 250, but my income varies. I'm commission only. >> And you don't have a stinking debt in the world.

Correct. >> And the house will sell for how much?

Uh I mean I'm fully expecting to lose some money on it cuz I've got to pay an agent and pay closing costs and all that. >> for how much?

Probably 470. I'll probably lose 20 to >> Okay, and what is it going to take to do the [clears throat] build?

500. Okay, and you've got the other money. I've got 200 grand in liquid cash right now not counting retirement. >> So, here's what's going to be uncomfortable for you, but you're going to do it anyway if you follow my advice.

And you did last time. So, >> Yeah, I'll do it again. Rent something for 1 year that's ridiculously nice.

Yeah.

And that makes this adventure kind of fun. >> [snorts] >> Sure. And there it's so nice that you put up an extra deposit and they don't mind your dogs in the backyard and your kids are away from creepazoid.

And your wife doesn't mind moving because she's moving up.

Go rent an $800,000 house.

Yeah. Yeah. And it cuz it's not that much money out of the whole scope of your life.

And it makes this move It puts grease in the wheels to make this move happen properly. And so, you can afford to do all of that. You make a good You make This is not a permanent decision. It's a temporary decision. And it's making a

uncomfortable thing a double move fun.

Yeah. So, so you would do that even though you're taking on a monthly payment that you haven't had for years now. Yes. And you're taking away from the other things you're doing. >> Yes, cuz you don't have a monthly payment on a construction interest construction loan interest. Sure. Sure.

Sure. Okay, so there's no scenario in this where you're doing a construction loan after where we're at. Well, I you could if you want to, but it that would involve staying in the house, and I'm Yeah. You're you weren't kidding. The guy's looking through the slats of the fence. Um I'm dead serious he will do that. >> I don't know how you didn't I don't know how you didn't respond to that.

Well, I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did.

>> $8,000. I spent $8,000 in cameras and and equipment and then I'm going to I'm going to swear out a warrant. Well, the point is the point >> I got to get You got to get away from this. >> Yeah, the point is you will have more peace from the financial aspect cuz you already were just like, "Oh, I don't I don't want to do the construction loan." Again, you could, but you didn't feel good about that.

And your current situation, you guys I mean if I was your wife and I had two little kids Yeah, I mean like that's miserable. Go rent a I like I like when Dave likes to spend money. I like this because go rent like a an amazing >> Well, you've lived like no one else, and so now you can live like no one else. >> on a farm or something like something that you wouldn't normally do.

He's got 15 acres.

Well, they're they're going to move to a farm. Move to a farm. I don't know. Just have fun for a year somewhere. I like that. >> Yeah, pretend like you're doing it. >> We had a friend do that, and she moved into like a historic type home, and it was the coolest It was for a year, but it was beautiful, so fun. I Yeah, I like

that idea. But you've got the money.

That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, let's not let's not confuse this with somebody that's broke >> No. No, no, no. I know.

>> "I bought a Tesla last night." >> Usually [laughter] people that call this show. So, it's fun when people who are winning you might go spend and Yes, enjoy your life. Yeah, and you're not having to violate the go back in debt thing, and more most importantly though, I'm getting away from creepazoid. Cuz I'm serious. I can't Yeah. I can't visualize going to work and leaving my wife and two little kids at home.

Once this guy's got his eyeballs No way.

>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm I'm really afraid I would lose my mind and end up in jail. >> You've said that twice on this call. >> I know. I know. I know. But it's just This is This These people, man.

Okay. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. I I mess with little kids. I mean, you know, this is not This is not This is not a good thing. So, yeah, Landon, I I I think this is why you have worked so hard. The payoff for all of your sacrifice is you got choices.

And I'm suggesting you you make this an easiest possible process with those choices. Um because it is a temporary thing. It's not a 5-year plan. It's a It's a 12-month plan. And quickly get your plans drawn, select your builder, lay out a budget, a schedule, and a

blueprint, and manage to those three things and get that house out of the ground and get it done as quick as you possibly can. >> a budget creep out of Stay on budget, stay on schedule, and stay on blueprint.

And don't not not 19 change orders. And stay on budget, stay on blueprint, stay on schedule, and you can get a house out of the ground. You won't And you'll be your builder's favorite customer ever because most people can't stay on budget, stay on schedule, and stay on blueprint. So, if you'll do that, you can get the house out of the ground 12 months, you'll be fine, you'll be on the farm, da da da da da da da da da and life is good.

Wow. The world we live in. Well, and I just love what he said though, calling at 23 and said or he was 22.

>> 22. He said told him by 32 he'd be a millionaire. >> Yeah, if you did these things. Yes. Yes.

So, it does Proud of it.

>> proves out. Well done, Landon. You do You follow this stuff, it works. I mean, it's I didn't invent any of it. I stole it all from God and your grandmother.

Common sense is so rare in America though that it's like having a superpower. And so, yeah. So, we have a wildly popular show that 30 million people tune into every week. Who knew?

But that Yeah, that's it. That That's why because this stuff works and I'm so And And you are the hero, Landon. You did this. I appreciate you, you know, giving us credit and but you're the guy that did all the hard work for the last decade or 6 years in your case. You didn't take you a whole decade. Wow, from 22 to 28 he becomes a millionaire.

And I just love Gen Z. Gen Z has got so much potential. There's so many things they can do. There's so much so many things at their fingertips and they're so smart on how they use them when they're smart. >> Mhm. But there's no middle ground.

The dumbest person on the planet is a dumb Gen Z. >> Okay. The smartest person on the planet is a smart Gen Z. Oh my god, they're wonderful and they're simultaneously aggravating.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [snorts]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Another Rachel is on the line. This one's in Indianapolis.

Hi, Rachel. How are you?

I'm great. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, it's awesome to speak with you.

Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

Um the reason why I'm calling is my husband and I are in baby step two. Um we've made really good progress and paid off $78,942

worth of debt in October 2024. Thank

you. >> Um that's consisted of medical, car, and student loans. Okay.

My question is is is there ever a time in baby step two that it would be appropriate to cash flow like a life event or once-in-a-lifetime experience?

What would that be?

Um so, it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and

Brian at the at the Sphere in August.

>> [laughter] >> The Backstreet Boys.

Yes. >> friends. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel. There's >> [laughter] >> You know Rachel's been twice.

Um I think so, yes.

>> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And it's so good. Oh my gosh.

>> [laughter] >> And And here's the thing, my I'm like watching the videos and my husband yells from the other room, "Dave says no." Oh.

>> [clears throat] >> Jeez.

I'm just going to see if Rachel's a hypocrite. That's all I'm going [laughter] to say.

Cuz if your husband calls and wants to wants to buy a MasterCraft, I've got the same problem, right? >> and Backstreet Boys tickets are very different price point-wise.

All right, let's just let's just let's keep let's just continue um being curious. [laughter] Rachel, how much debt do y'all have left?

Um so, we have I have it right here. We have just about 96,000 and I will admit

that's student loans. I'm in healthcare and my husband is a teacher. And your household income is what?

Um I have an NDA with work, but we are able to put about $3,500 a month towards debt because I have a side hustle as adjunct faculty.

Oh, nice.

Okay. >> I'm sorry. What is it Say your your household income Oh, you can't You can't say because you have an NDA, is that what you mean? Yeah, I have a non-disclosure agreement.

I work with the government, so. Oh.

Okay. Yeah, nobody knows who you are, but okay. Anyway. >> [laughter] >> Protect yourself. It's fine.

They probably actually do know who you are, but anyway. >> [laughter] >> Oh, man.

So, >> able to put like 3,500 a month towards debt and we're at um probably about 25 months away from having that all cleared. Yeah.

I went to the Eagles at the Sphere, which would be my version of Backstreet Boys cuz chance of me seeing the Backstreet Boys is close to zero. But the Eagles at the Sphere was a one of the best concert experiences of my life. So, I'm I can get I can get there with you and Rachel on how difficult this is. We're kind of making fun of it a little bit, but it's also it's also a very real possible It's

a real It's a real cool experience and and it's worth every penny if you want to if you had the pennies. You don't.

You're broke. You're $90,000 in debt.

Yes.

So, I I'm going to mute my mic. I just can't I can't either. >> She can't tell you no. I'm just kidding.

She's going to make me do it.

>> She can't do it. Ah. We It would be

inconsistent with what we teach.

>> I know. I know. That's the bottom line.

As much as we understand and grasp and we also know you're not going to go bankrupt if you do it and you're probably going to be okay if you do it, but it's inconsistent with what we teach because of that loss of focus and that loss of I I give myself permission to

take a minute off instead of staying on this. The way you got the 78,000 paid off in that short period of time was focused intensity.

Without any distractions, you put the blinders on and said nothing is important as important as getting this debt clean and that level of focus created behavior change in your household, created sacrifice in your household, and got you the progress. And that's how we've taught and been able to coach people to be successful all these years in this to not get distracted with every shiny thing.

Um and this one's particularly funny and fun because Rachel has actually done it twice.

Um It is It It heals your inner child, I'm telling you. >> [laughter] >> It is like Oh god.

It is >> Oh, Jesus is not up there. It's the Backstreet Boys. >> of us millennials, it takes you back to like seventh grade. So, Well, so is the Eagles, but I'm not kidding. Your child didn't need it. >> [laughter] >> But um My inner child died a long time ago. The

He grew up. >> No, he said he's He's in there. He's way down in there, but yeah. And so, this is so fun, Rachel. I'm sorry. The tru- I have to tell you the truth and the truth is everything we teach says don't do it.

Absolutely. Well, no, I really do appreciate it and we listen to like the podcast and stuff when I'm like on my way to teach on the weekends, so thank you. You're You're You're fine and you're a great sport and and so hard.

>> And you're doing a great job. And here's the thing, if you live like no one else, I promise you later there's going to be better things than this would have been.

And I have on my prayer list that Britney Spears heals up as a human and she goes on tour and that NSYNC that Justin Timberlake Oh, just So, we will get millennial concerts in the future, Rachel. I really do believe it. I'm praying for it. >> Well, when they want money, they will cuz all the ones from my generation are 85 years old and they're all on stage jumping around still. So, cuz there's really good money in it right now.

>> There is. Well, and they keep releasing more dates. >> Yeah, like I mean, Don Henley just keeps going like the Ever Ready Bunny. So, but anyway, the uh >> Eagles? Yeah. Mhm. [clears throat] It's uh yeah, it's understandable and it makes for a fun thing because you're actually, you know, you almost got Rachel on your side.

But yeah, we we also have to step aside from all the giggling and the fun about it and say while it is an incredible experience, I would not suggest it to someone in your situation. If you do it, we'll still be friends, but I would not suggest it. >> Rachel. We would still be friends if you did it. There you go. That's a nice way of saying it. We'll just, [laughter] you know, won't be mad at you.

Just like we say, "That's not a sin.

It's not a salvation issue. >> a sin. This is not a biblical It's not a biblical construct. >> focused, Rachel.

Stay focused. The power of focus is >> It's hard to grasp in a culture that does not know how to focus. In a culture where people check their phones 2,500 times a day. And it's hard with With And this is a lot of people's journeys, but you know, they paid off 78 and they made good progress.

And two, you know, a year and a half and they still have 96 Like that's a long That's a long journey. So, you guys, you're in the marathon. You've got it, Rachel. And I kind of think in talking to her that she was a pretty mature about >> No, she knows.

I know she knows.

>> Yeah, she was kind of having fun with it. Um it wasn't like a little spoiled brat. >> No. No. No. She's She's smart. She knows what she's doing. >> like a grown woman and stuff, you know. >> Oh, man. I just hate that you kind of lost the argument to the husband, too, when he yells >> [laughter] >> from the other room. Dave says you can't do it. Dave doesn't make the decisions at your house. He just gives you the guidance and then you make the decisions at your house, but yeah. Oh, Rachel.

[laughter] So sorry. So sorry. Yeah, I was on uh when we were started a thousand years ago, I was on CBS Early Show every two every other Tuesday. And

they got this couple for me to coach.

Oh, no. >> And on the show they revealed to me, without telling me ahead of time, that they had just come back from vacation after I'd been coaching them for four months to get out of debt. >> Oh, jeez. I made the woman cry on the air when I finished with her. She was crying. They went to break with this woman crying. I just completely ripped her a new one.

>> you did. I don't believe that.

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Jennifer's in Boston. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

Hey, I'm good. This is so nerve-wracking. I don't know how you guys do this every day.

>> [laughter] >> We've gotten used to it. How can we help?

Okay. Um okay, so me and my husband, we

had $146,000 of student debt. We've gotten it down to 65,000.

So, we've been kind of crushing it. Um

but we do have like an inheritance um from my father's estate. Um we kind of

went down a rabbit hole and we found out that each kid is probably going to get around 70 to 90,000.

Um the house sold a few years ago, but

my uncle is the executor and he's just gone completely ghost. Like nothing in like a year and a

half. >> I'm sorry, what do you mean? What do you mean ghost? You You He's not returning calls or you can't find him or what?

Nothing. No, like texts, emails, calls.

Did you go to his house? Zero.

Well, we live in like different states.

He's all the way across the country.

Well, for 70,000, I'm going to go to his house.

Yeah, I was talking to my husband about that. I'm like, is this like something we get like I don't know, the authorities involved?

Cuz it kind of like kills me that our debt could be gone tomorrow if I had like the estate, like my I used to have

>> called his phone how many times?

Oh, gosh. Um a handful. Not like a ton and ton cuz I'm like, oh, okay. He has a life, like he has kids, but I'm starting to just get a little a little peeved. A little bit peeved. >> How many times have you called him? Like three times?

Over how Over how long?

Uh I mean, since we've been getting serious about the debts, probably a year. Uh cuz we My husband was in PA school and then I was in college. We weren't really thinking about the estate at all. And now that we're paying down the debt, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's on >> die?

In 2015.

Okay, do you have a relationship of any kind with your uncle prior to this, good or bad?

Uh just after my dad passed, the that side of the family just we kind of just dissipated. >> if you never spoke to him again, but you got your 70,000, your life wouldn't change much.

Right. So, jack him up.

Yeah, like call him a ton. Yeah. And go,

"Hey, I want my stinking money." 2015?

That's 11 years to settle an estate. I'm

getting ready to call the cops if I don't get a check.

I'm calling the cops if you stole my money.

You think he stole it? He might have stolen it. It's been 11 years. Oh, no.

Well, here's some tea. I just have a little bit of a feeling that he's holding it cuz he thinks we're like too young to manage it. I've got a little bit of a feeling that I'm about to jack him up.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. See, I need to talk >> 11 years?

When did the house sell, though? It just sold? >> I more pissed than you?

I know. Yeah, and I think that's the problem. I think I need a little kick in the butt. So, I'm like, I'm just going to call and just say, "Hey, >> When did When did the house Yeah, when did the house sell, Jennifer?

How long ago?

>> Okay. I I want to know the stuff should be wrapped up in 6 months.

Okay. So, he's 10 and a half years too late. Yes, call him and call him and call him twice a day. We're really wanting to move in August and I'm like, we're not moving unless we're out of debt. Yeah. So, I'm like, That That's irrelevant to this discussion, okay?

Whether you move or not depends on if you're out of debt, and that depends on if you get out of debt with your money or you get some of this money that's due you. You may never see this money, but you need closure on this ridiculous estate situation.

It's ridiculous. How many siblings do you have?

I have three. And what are they saying?

Well, a little bit estranged at the moment, not going to lie.

Having a little bit of a family >> Okay. All right. So, I'm I'm going to let I'm going to let Uncle know that he's got 10 days to send me the to close out the estate and send me my money.

And if he doesn't do that, I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm getting ready to jack his world up.

I'm going to reach down his throat and pull him inside out.

No, really. 11 freaking years.

>> Okay, she's only called him three times in a year. So, maybe we try the calling Yeah, call him and say, "I want my money." And then if he says, "Okay," then I'm going to call again. If you want my money. And then I'm going to call again and I'm going to go, "Hey, it's been 20 minutes. Where's my money?"

This is 11 years.

Yes, Rachel's correct that I haven't put my foot like on the gas at all, but now that we're like going crazy with the debt, I'm like, okay. They've taken you from like They've taken you from zero to a hundred, but you need to go there.

>> You need to go middle.

Well, you need to be prepared to go to a hundred in the next 30 days.

30 seconds. I'll do it as soon as you get off the phone. >> You have to call him immediately. You can start nice, and then it progressively over the next 30 days, you go from nice to I don't care if you ever talk to me again, but I still want my money.

Correct. This has gone on too long.

It's gone on too long. And I think he spent the money. I think you're screwed.

That's what you're going to find out.

That's what I'm almost thinking. It's not even there. Yeah. I'm It's not legal at all. >> No, I said, "Isn't that illegal?" >> Sure. Yeah, so what happens then?

He's a fiducia It's a civil matter. It's not a theft. >> Oh, okay. Cuz it was never in her name.

He's the executor of the estate. He did not function in his duties right, his fiduciary right, his fiduciary duties.

So, you could sue him, but suing broke people with no morals is usually a waste of time. So, you're probably screwed because you sat on this for so long.

But, I'm going to go ahead and get get psychological emotional closure on this and then decide what I'm going to do with the guy that stole my money.

Now, am I just going to forgive and walk away and forget it because I didn't follow up or am I going to lean on it or has he got some assets and I'm going to tap him? I don't know. I mean, you got to decide what you're going to do then, but I think you're going to find there's no money. That's what I think. And you bear part of the responsibility for that by letting this go on this long.

By not managing the situation well. It's unhealthy for an estate to be open 11 years.

It's not normal.

Okay? He didn't do his job as the executor of the estate.

And if he's sitting on the money, I'll give you a 10% chance that's what it is. 90% he spent that money.

And he's got some whacked-out weird family justification bull crap in his mind for doing that, but he still stole your money. I'll bet you. We'll see.

We'll see. You can call us back and tell us later.

>> [laughter] >> Good luck. Yeah. So, gang, when you are

due when you are the heir to an estate, you are not in charge of the estate. The executor executes. Thus, the word execute is in the word executor.

Executes the actual terms of the will.

If the will states house to be sold, proceeds to be distributed to children,

that has to happen in a reasonable period of time.

11 years is 10 years past reasonable.

That's simple. >> Mhm. Okay, that's an actual practical thing. And so, as an heir, I at the 1-year mark and periodically after 6 months, I'm going to be getting reports from the executor as to what the progress is and when I expect to see the payout that my dad left in his will for

me. And you're going to give me those reports as the executor or I'm going to drag your butt before the judge and he's going to make you give a report. Because that is your fiduciary responsibility,

your job, your trust job as the

executor. You do not get to decide uh whether they're done with money, so I'm going to hold the money. That's not what the will said. The will said sell the house and distribute the money to the dumb people. That's what it said.

And you have to do what the will said even if it's uncomfortable, even if you don't agree with it. That's what you take on when you take on the job of executor.

And if you've ever been the executor of an estate, you will promise to never do it again. Cuz it's a royal pain in the butt.

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>> [music]

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>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Philip and Anita are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hi. Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're in Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. >> Congratulations. >> And how much debt have you paid off? We paid off $88,100

and we cash flowed another 30,000 of Murphy expenses in the first 18 months of that. Oh, gosh. >> Wow. How long did it take you to do the 88? Uh 2 years and 10 months. 2 years

and 10 months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time? We started at 135,000.

We finished at 145,000 with the highest year we side hustled at 191. Wow. Way to go, guys. What kind of

debt was the 88,000?

Uh it was personal loans, credit cards.

Uh we had some um IRS tax in there as

well and HVAC system. So, very very normal. >> Uh-huh. >> Wow. Normal humans. Very cool. So, what do y'all do for a living?

I'm a general manager for big box retail and then side hustle was DoorDash. Okay.

Nice. >> And you work outside the home, Anita?

Yeah. Well, I'm a physical therapist, um but when we moved to the USA, um COVID started, so I I stayed at home with my three children to help school them. That went on for a few years and then we actually moved down to Atlanta, Georgia and that was when I turned my

hobbies, which is photography and dogs, into work where I began my photography

business and my dog boarding business.

>> Very good. Good for you. Good for you.

So, Australian? Uh we're from the UK.

The UK. You said English. >> Okay, I'm sorry. English. I'm sorry.

[laughter] I can't catch the accent, so I'm sorry. I just knew there was one. Okay. What part of the UK? Where were you? Uh Devon. I'm from Devon and

You can say. I'm from Devon. Fair [laughter] enough. Yeah, close enough. Southwest. Yeah. So, down down on the coast. Got you. Cool.

Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations, you guys. So, how did you run into this Ramsey stuff 2 years and 10 months ago?

Uh well, I listened to the uh Total Money Makeover audiobook in 2015, but I

of course knew better, so I didn't do anything about it. Didn't tell Anita anything about it. And then fast forward to October in '22, uh I was doing some yard work, lifting some trees, and my body had another idea, so I had to have some surgery.

Oh. I was out of action for 5 weeks and it nearly broke us financially. Mhm. So, after a week of Netflix and getting bored, uh started listening to your book again.

Uh this time I really heard you shouting and yelling [laughter] at me. And after eight times, uh I was ready to kind of open up to Anita about what was happening financially. Wow. Oh, wow. So, Anita, you didn't really have the full picture in general. No, we did we really didn't um communicate very well with finances and we communicated well otherwise, but I completely relied on him to manage the

finances and I didn't really know what was going on. And um he was under a huge amount of stress and it was impacting our marriage, but I didn't know what was causing the problem, why he was so stressed. Um but then he did um open up

to me once he um started, you know, reading your books again and shared what his plans were and I had you know, I was surprised to find out how much debt we were in. I had no idea, but I was I took it all very level-headed surprisingly. I didn't um get upset and I just got totally on board with helping him. In

fact, it really did help us communicate.

And it did I feel like it saved our marriage actually. So, thank you. I mean, it has been an incredible journey, just the whole experience and and following your plan, um communicating better as a family, and working together. Um so, I'm really proud of him for getting on board and

you guys for helping us do that. Yeah.

Wow. Well, way to go. I'm proud of you guys. Well done. Very well done. So, you

you you had this event that put you flat on your back and you're kind of forced to consume some things and you say, "Okay, I'm going to do it this time.

This time I heard it. This time I'm tired of living like this. I'm going to talk to Anita about it. We're going to work together. We're going to tear into this." What was the first big thing you did when you got in attack mode?

I went out and started DoorDashing.

Believe it or not. >> you sold everything. >> Oh, yeah. >> [laughter] >> We sold we sold everything. That was that was number one. Yeah. The kids really did think that they were next.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah. And and then it was DoorDashing. Um about 6 months in, I actually lost my job, so I got laid off. Oh. Yeah, but um

but it was okay. I found Anita from the car park after the meeting. I literally went out door dashing and I was actually earning we were earning $1,500 a week door dashing. So, that's what we did for a couple of months until I got the next position that I'm in now.

Wow, never stopped. Just kept rolling.

Yeah. >> Yeah, we just went straight out. We were doing 80 hours a week. Yeah.

>> Anita was doing 80 hours a week.

>> Yeah, so then then I started with my photography business. I'm doing family photography, which I actually didn't make most of the money. The money came from dog boarding. We do have dogs and we love animals. So, that just seemed to come naturally to me. I think you can make more being a daycare for dogs than for kids. >> Right. Well, these dogs stayed with us. They slept in our home. They were family friendly dogs from local people. Yeah.

And yeah, it really did take off huge and I think you know, the people that let their dogs stay with us really saw how much we love dogs. The kids loved it. At times we had you know, in the teens like 13 more dogs. Oh my goodness.

Christmas time was hysterical. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. The kids joined in as well. The eldest actually lost his room. So, the boys had to cozy up and we we got a tenant for a couple of years as well.

So, we we really went all in. Yeah, we went for it. >> Oh my gosh. So, now that you're free, was all that worth it?

Oh my goodness, yes. I mean, if you're thinking about getting on board with the Ramsey, I would highly recommend it. I mean, it's changed our life completely and you you won't imagine what you're capable of, how how hard you can push yourself. Um knowing that the harder you push, the faster you can achieve your goals and >> Amen.

That's it right there. I feel like our children have have just learned so much from this experience. >> I was going to ask is some people are cautious when they have kids in the home to sacrifice lifestyle to get out of debt and do this cuz they're like, oh I don't want my kids to feel like that you know, that that our life is changing for the worst.

>> them resilience and to not you know, to

be grateful for everything that they have. Um it's just been to see them to grow as

little humans has just been a blessing to see how strong they've become because of this and you know, to go into the shops, they don't you want everything they see. They know that you know, we have to compromise that you know, they've done they've done a great job.

Yeah, and our eldest, he's 14. He's He's been inspired by as well. So, he's watched FPU. He's done that with us as a course and he's now got his own business that he started last year and and he's doing really well with that doing what you're doing Dave, which is lawns and jet washing driveways. He's really jumping on board. Good for him.

Oh, good. Well, you have a front row seat to watching mom and dad change their lives. You guys are heroes. So, you've changed your whole family tree with your actions as well as with the arithmetics. So, absolutely amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

>> Very well done. Great Great Great inspiring couple.

Very very cool. All right, let's bring the kiddos up and introduce them their names and ages.

Come on up, guys.

What are their names and ages? So, this is Bethany. Bethany's 8 years old.

>> Mhm. They're so beautiful. Isaac.

Isaac is 10 years old and Ewan [clears throat] is 14 years old.

>> All right, very cool. All right, it's Philip and Anita, Ewan or E So, say it

again. Ewan Ewan Yeah, Ewan, Isaac and Bethany from Atlanta, Georgia. 88,000 paid off in 2 years and 10 months making 135 to 145 and selling everything in sight. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

3 2 1 We're debt free.

>> [cheering] >> I love it.

Man, they are inspiring.

>> [applause] >> That is so fun.

>> just Scoursters for 2 years.

>> Man, they did it. They just did [music] it. And you know, her her it's so beautifully said that you know, the more you turn it up, the more you turn up the heat, the faster you get out. >> Going. Yep. >> [music]

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>> Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Yrefi helps you refinance in a into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can get back on the baby steps and move forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y {dot} com

{slash} ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Nicole in Arkansas. She said, "I'm working two jobs to pay off debts, but it feels like my progress is slowing with the rising gas prices because of the war, increasing grocery costs and higher interest rates. How can I maintain momentum in paying off my debts with all of this going on?"

Well, it's setting the the lifestyle standard. I mean, there's some things that you can control, some things that you can't. And so, to have gas in your car, you're going to have to have, which means if it is a little bit more expensive, then you got to change change the price

point of your budget to say it's there.

So, what do I have to make up for in other places that I can sacrifice and or

make more money. But, it shouldn't be that significant of a >> Yeah, you're you're just wrong, Nicole.

Wait. You're worrying about stuff that is not in existence. You've been watching the news.

Okay? There's no higher interest rates.

While you've been getting out of debt, nothing no debt that you have, the interest rate has not gone up a penny on any of it. >> Yeah, groceries are costs have been consistent. I mean, the gas thing has been >> costs Your your gas might be costing you $10 more a month this month.

The Iraqi bombing has been going on for 3 weeks. >> Iran. Iran Iranian bombing, okay? 3 weeks.

And and gas has gone up 40 cents a gallon. It's $10.

So, you don't have a you don't have a problem at $10.

And you don't have higher interest rates. And your grocery costs have not gone up in the last 3 weeks.

So, none of that is true.

So, you're you're creating a narrative a drama in your head because you're tired

cuz you've been working all the time.

Feels like my progress is slowing. No, it's not.

Unless you did something else to cause it to slow. Slowing because of the war. No.

Your progress is not slowing because of the war. Increasing grocery costs. No, not substantially, not in the past 5 weeks. No no big difference. And no interest rates on your debt have not gone up a penny.

Not a penny.

So, I I don't know where That's all stuff that somebody told you that you work with that's a Debbie Downer or you're watching the news, which is the same thing as Debbie Downer.

So, how you maintain momentum is you ignore Debbie Downer and you kick the butt of the debt by

working like a crazy person and selling everything in sight and eating beans and rice rice and beans. The cost of beans and rice has not gone up.

And so, but but but what is what does happen, Nicole, honestly, that is valid

and I will defend you on this after taking you to task on the other is you do get tired.

It gets old. >> Yeah, and if it's been a 2-year journey for her, she is feeling Working your butt off gets old.

It gets old. It's hard. Getting out of debt is hard.

It's just not as hard as spending your entire life being average.

Being mediocre.

Constantly living from paycheck to paycheck for your whole freaking life having to work an extra job because you never get out of debt because you never pay a price to push it over the push the rock over the hill.

But I but I I will sympathize with you, empathize with you that you do get tired.

And it is it does get I get sick and tired of this. And and all I all I would encourage you to do is just take that and turn it into a righteous anger to push the pedal even harder to the floor to get out that much faster like the debt free screamer just said. Like Anita just said on that debt free scream.

And use it as anger and also as anger to never go back and I'm not going to ever be the person I used to be.

I'm going to be transformed while I get

out of debt as well.

Because it actually what ends up happening to these people, you guys listening that have never done it, these people that go through these extreme journeys to get out of debt, they are changed more than their finances are changed. And they can never become the same person again because they're not the same person they used to be. Yeah, cuz the strength of doing something that you think is impossible, right? Where they have 13 dogs living with them at Christmas and they're working extra.

They're doing they're door dashing a thousand bucks a week. They're making $4,000 a week door dashing is what they said in that That that that feels impossible for people. I mean it's just like there's no way I could do that. And when you do something you don't think you can do, the resilience on the back end comes out and then you get to apply that to every area of your life.

Like it just there's a level of strength there when you do what feels like the impossible.

It's not possible.

And so yeah, that that's how this goes.

Wow. Wow.

So we'll be praying for your strength, kiddo. But do not get distracted by mythology from your Debbie Downer friends or mythology from the news.

Because your gas tank is not that much more expensive in the last 3 weeks.

And if it is, it won't be for long.

And your interest rates have not changed a thing unless you went and borrowed money in the last 3 weeks. You might have found a higher interest rate that way. But the interest rates on everything you had have not changed. Your credit card rates are not moved a penny.

Not moved up or down. They never move up or down. They always are screwing you.

You know, your car is a fixed rate. If you have a car debt, your your medical bills are fixed rate. They're not charging you an interest rate. They're just trying to get their money. You know, whatever it is, the interest rates are all the same.

Nothing has changed.

In the you know, because nothing in your life has changed. That's my point. Now, there may be some things in the marketplace have moved a little bit here or there. But guys, you really can't sit and watch the news and be anything but negative. They exist for fear porn.

Their whole job is to keep you upset so you keep watching and you stay in the the Fox News or the CNN News loop.

And you know, your particular side of the aisle is stimulated by anger at the

other side of the aisle. And that you know, that's all they do all day long.

And we're on Fox all the time. We know those guys. We're not mad at them. Most of those guys are friends of ours. But what they do all day long, the people that write those scripts that they read in those telemarkers you you know, it's got to it you do not

have higher interest rates.

You just don't. So that's simple. Jane is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi Jane, how are you? Well, I'm fine, Dave. Thank you very much for taking my call. My question concerns cars. Cars and a mortgage. My

husband's 79. I'm 69. We currently have

a we've done it all. We we've gotten grandma's car, grandpa's car, you know, we bought new cars. We've been married 48 years. We bought new cars, seen them to the end. You know, anytime we bought a new car, had them, of course had a

payment. And once it was done, then we saw it to the end. So currently we got grandma's 2003 Buick LeSabre.

And then we have a 2006

Explorer that my husband drives. And then we're snowbirds. So here in Florida have we have our Sienna.

And because we're snowbirds, I tend to

go north more often than he does. I'm getting nervous, okay? It's like we got these old cars, you know, and he's pretty good. He's good. He knows stuff.

He says that old car will be fine. >> Before I run out of time, ask your question, Jane.

Okay, is it ever a good idea I went and got a a lease? No, you didn't.

Yes, listen, I kind of got strong-armed, but it's a very nice car. I'm sure it is.

It's a I I mean I could be easily impressed cuz I got old cars. So what do you want me to do about it? You got a lease. Tell tell me tell me It's a bad idea.

>> My plan is to give up the lease in

in September. It's done.

>> Good. Turn it in. Good. Okay, because we

gave our son money for a some land, we

still have a mortgage.

So I'm thinking, okay, do the we'll put that money toward drive the old cars,

put the money toward the mortgage, and then in um I I turn 70 this year, so I'll get >> I don't mind you getting a nicer car. It sounds like you've got the money. Just pay cash for it.

That's simple. Yeah, and if the two if the two old cars are fine, then what you're saying putting it toward the mortgage, that makes >> old. You're driving across the country. You need a better car than an '06.

Yeah, I'm fine with that, but pay cash for it. And quit trying to trick the system.

Sounds like you've been tricking it for a long time, but it hasn't worked.

Just write a check, buy yourself a car.

And be careful what car you buy and buy something that's very reasonable [music] and that gets the job done where you feel safe.

But don't lease stuff. No.

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, my daughter, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

James is in Indianapolis. Hi James, how are you? Hello. Hey, I'm doing fine. Thanks for taking my call and um hello to Rachel and to Mr. Ramsey.

>> Well, thank you, sir. >> the I appreciate the all the information you've given throughout the years. I've got a little problem and I just need you to let me know the direction you would take with this. You got it.

>> Okay, I've got two sons.

I'm 70, my wife is 70. She's in great health. I have cancer, but I'm I'm in remission at this time, so I'm good.

But you know, time's going to be most likely shorter for me than her because her mom's in her 90s and her family has that longevity. But she's doing great, great caregiver. Love that lady. But but I have two sons, one 42, one 38. And

we're going to have about a $2 million inheritance for them.

The 38 42-year-old is great. He's got his life

under control, does things as he as you would expect people to do, you know, pays his bills, does this, that, and the other, saves his money.

And then I got my other son.

He's not very good with money and he's got triplets. He's divorced 2 years now and he's been living with us for 2 years. And that was to get him back on his feet plus they were two when he got divorced and a single dad, he gets the kids half time, so he's not in a position,

you know, how do you take care of two girls if you're a single dad and you're working? And he is working and that's the that's the plus side of it. However, he he's went through the equity in the home they sold, which was about $60,000.

I didn't know he had done that and then we gave him about $30,000 from my mom's

estate.

We were dividing it in thirds between my my wife, my myself, and my two boys. And

he went through that and >> [clears throat] >> I'm sure it's a gambling issue. I can't

verify that cuz he's never said, but there's no physical evidence of spending $150,000,

you know, so on cuz he spent all his wages as well during that time and he has about $4,000 in the bank after living with us for 2 years. The only thing he pays for is daycare.

And it is expensive. It's $12.50.

Uh $250 a week for these three girls. And he pays for that and we've set aside that $250 when he moves out, he will pay his rent.

But it ain't right. I just want to know the inheritance piece of it.

What do we do?

Well, I don't think you're blessing him

if you leave him a million dollars.

No, and I don't want to leave it all at once either. Well, I mean you're going to when you die. That's going to be you know, he's not he's not been blessed by anything else and so money magnifies

the good parts of our life and the bad parts of our life. And so far money that he's gotten has magnified the bad parts.

Absolutely has. Yeah.

So why is he still living with you?

Because he has $4,000 in the bank and

and he's got these triplets and he gets them half time and he can't put a roof over his head at this point. Why? What's he make?

He makes $22 an hour, which

next summer or this coming summer he may get to 25.

>> Yeah. And then he has a chance to get to 35, but that's going to be two or three years down the road. Now, he won't We've given him the get out, you know, get out when you're uh no longer than January of next year.

>> And why does it say on my screen that he's under house arrest? What does that mean? That was a DUI and he has a bracelet on

his ankle, so he goes to work, comes back here. I don't have to worry about him spending money because But we still don't know where all his money's going.

The what? >> He's spending money somewhere.

Well, he was spending it on online gambling, of course. >> Yeah. But and then >> All right, so what would I do? You asked me earlier in the conversation, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes?

My son's about the same age.

Okay. What I would do is the conditions for you to continue to live here are that you start being responsible

as a man.

And that means you've got to stop spending everything you make on online gambling. So, if you gamble one more time online, you have to leave our home.

Right. And so, I'm not going to I'm not going to support you destroying your own life. I'm not going to buy you heroin when you're a heroin addict. I'm not going to give you shelter while you're misbehaving. I'm not blessing you. I'm enabling you when I do that. And I love you too much to participate

willingly or unwillingly in your destruction. >> make sure that that's not happen because I mean, you can't really control that if he has his own money. Yeah, I I I I I I would be I would ask for a shared account with him first. Like I mean, there needs to be some visibility into his internet access. Yeah. And treat him like he's an addict. Treat him like he was an addict because he's an addict. If he's unwilling to do that, then he needs to move out and figure out his own way.

And um that's your wife doesn't want him to do that, but your wife is wrong. He needs to be kicked out. It's the best thing that'll happen to him because the the path that he's on is a path of destruction. And it's not a loving act to assist

in an act of destruction. It's called enabling. Enablers are nice people.

They're sweet people, but they're not helpful people. They think they're helping, but they're not helping. And so, when I do things like this or when you do things like this, we're enablers. And so, I would stop that. Then the second part of it is as far as the estate goes, I would leave his portion into a trust that he has no access to until he proves to the trustee that he's cleaned up his life and he's become responsible because I'm not leaving a million dollars to a gambling addict.

DraftKings is going to get it all.

And I don't want to leave a million dollars to DraftKings.

It's not I didn't work all my life to do that. And [clears throat] it's not a blessing to the person that's being victimized by DraftKings or whoever else, you know, [snorts] whatever else. I mean, we're seeing that sports gambling is just an epidemic among men under 40 years old.

And it's just um destroying Mhm. men left and right and families left and right. It's evil.

And everybody thinks it's cute to parlay. I got your parlay.

Be broke. That's what you're parlaying.

So, no, I'm not going to participate in that. And I'm disgusted with it. I'm disgusted that he's been victimized by it. He's allowed himself to be victimized by it. And I guess not being able to support himself, then the girls end up with the mom full-time custody, I would assume. Well, and you know, The courts will Grandma and Grandpa are standing there ready to help with the triplets. With the girls, yes.

I was going If you want to If you know, if when you're keeping the kids, if you want to bring them over, I'll help you keep the kids on your days off. You know, cuz you got two little girls and that's what Grandma's doing right now. Yeah. Is she's bringing she he How does a single dad deal with two little girls?

Grandma's helping. That's what's happening. So, just keep doing that.

I'll help you and help you with the kids, but you can't live here.

I'm not going to support you and I'm not going to give you money and I'm not going to give you money until you prove yourself to be to be a the to where the

money's going to be a blessing to you. It's not a punishment. It's I don't want to cause your ruin.

You're on a path toward ruining your life. And I don't want to add fuel to that fire.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, but you couldn't get through, head on over to the website and use our tool Ask Ramsey.

Ask Ramsey is a free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven principles.

Like we dumped years and years and years of our calls from the show into it, all the books I've written into it, all the Financial Peace University lessons are into it, all the books Rachel wrote are into it. And based on that, it'll give you an answer. So, AI when it has a good data set can give you really good correct answers. And obviously, Ask Ramsey's going to give you a Ramsey answer.

You'll get an answer the same way as if we did it right here on the show.

Jackie is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi Jackie, how are you?

Hi. I am good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, I can't believe I'm speaking to you.

This is so cool. Okay.

So, my question is a relational question

and I'm hoping to get a third-party objective viewpoint from you guys.

Um so, my dear fiance has some very

frugal tendencies that border on being cheap. And I'm wondering if this means we are incompatible or if it should cause me to reassess our relationship.

Oh man. Okay, so give me a couple of examples of what you consider cheap that concern you. >> borderline crazy. Or borderline Okay.

So, it can be something small like if I

call him to say like, "Hey, can you pick up some avocados on the way home?" I can hear him like his brain is short-circuiting on the other end trying to think of like the cheapest grocery store to get avocados. So, it can be something small like that. Um or just bigger stuff like paying for dates and groceries and um So, yeah. Do you mean he wants you to pay for dates?

Yes. I I should probably give you a little more context though. Um so, he and I are engaged and we are living together. Please don't yell at me, Dave.

Um and we also have a 2-year-old son together. So, we've kind of we've gone through a lot in our relationship. Um

Early on, yes, he he still pays for

dates. I want to give him a fair >> not a he's not a date anymore. He's a shack-up. So, it's a completely different thing. So, um I mean, he's the father he's the baby daddy now. I mean, come on. So, um yeah.

Um I I think it's too late to decide if you're going to marry the guy. I think you've already decided. You set your entire life up as if you're married already.

Oh, I agree. I think that's probably like the root cause of some of our fights. Um I would say that uh early on like one of our disagreements was on living together. I

wanted to wait until we were married until we lived together. So, why aren't you married?

Well, I I wanted to be early on, but he

wanted to take things slow.

Um but at the same time, he wanted to live together. I agree. It's not exactly slow. That's kind of where I agree. He um Taking things slow was basically like not marrying me, but he still wanted to live together. And this is this is where like the frugal part comes up because um I think our like framework for making decisions is very different. It seems like the only thing he can um make a decision around is saving money.

So, like we we had a big disagreement on living together. For me, I wanted to be married first and try to like do things back in the correct order, but for him, it all revolved around saving money and

like the practical side of it.

And so, like that kind of created a big conflict there. >> Which yeah, which that would feel like he is choosing quote unquote financial security or whatever he wants over you who's the mother of his child. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, we did actually live separately cuz I I I needed that. And so, by the time he proposed after that, he then wanted to move in together. And I felt like we just got to an impasse in our relationship where it was like someone has to cave here.

And so, I did and I allowed him to move in. But to be honest, I feel like that's like the root of our conflict. And so, to your point, Dave, like why aren't we married? I kind of agree with you, but I think like the way he went about it made me hesitant on moving forward with marriage because it felt like we were just Okay, so I guess there's three options, right? You get married.

Yep. Um you don't get married and stay shacked up in this exact situation.

Mhm. Or you split up.

Yeah. Those are the three options.

And I feel like there's >> And so I I I don't know how not to getting married and staying in this situation solves

your concern of him being cheap.

Mhm. So if you are so if you decide he's too cheap to marry this is too dysfunctional for you to marry then you're saying you're splitting up.

Mhm.

But I think it goes be I think it goes beyond that for you, Jackie. I think it's I don't think it's just that you think he's cheap. I think there's been other red flags in what he prio- Well, just what he prioritizes.

You don't feel chosen ever in this. He wanted to wait, but then he gets you still even though he doesn't need the commitment. I mean, it's just it feels like he's getting he's choosing a lot of what he's wanting. Yeah.

>> and and it doesn't and it's not you at the end of the day, right? Um it's financial security. It's well, I want to be in a relationship, but I don't want to commit to marriage. You know, it's all of that.

So I think a lot of I would think some of that's brewing even if it's subconscious of like am I going to be chosen at all in this >> Yeah.

finances. So This is this is way beyond avocado. >> Yeah, I think this is I do. Um so I before you I I mean, before you walk down an down an aisle and commit yourself to him long term.

I mean, you kind of already have. You guys have a kid together. So he's going to be part of your life forever. But I but before you guys get married, I would sit down with a with a great therapist, counselor and and really be working on something cuz again, it it com- it's coming out like money, but always there's a root of what's going on underneath and getting to that point um of what's causing some of this conflict in you is is going to be really important for you guys which I pray is a wonderful flourishing marriage ahead of you, right?

Like we I want you guys to win. Can he grow past this?

This guy's selfish.

Um it's what he gets and what he wants and what it's about him.

And um which means um that he's not a great man right now.

Can he become a great man? Yeah, sure.

But it's going to require some growth on his part. And um it's probably going to require you doing something you've never done before and that's drawing a line in the sand and demanding it.

Yeah. >> Um and so you guys are going to sit down with a good counselor and begin doing some hard work both of you. And he's going to have to start saying "Oh, my job here is to take care of this wonderful woman named Jackie and this baby I made with her and quit acting like a twerp over avocados." That's my job. I have a new job. It's called manhood. It's serving.

Not what you can get, what you can give.

And by the way, the odd thing is that happiness is in there. You find happiness when you learn how to serve.

Uh selfishness seldom leads to happiness. Doesn't lead to joy. Selfish people are seldom joyful people. They look like they were weaned on a pickle.

And so, you know, that that's the good news for him. He's got that as a possibility, a choice that he can make here. But if you you know, one of the things we we talk about at Ramsey in leadership and we teach this to people in companies on leadership, you get what you tolerate.

And in this relationship, you've been tolerating a lot and so you're getting

what you've tolerated. And so my encouragement lovingly to you is to help him by not tolerating him anymore at this level and saying we're going to get some help because I feel like you're here for what you can get rather than what you can give and I'm tired of being the only one here giving.

And so we're going to get some therapy and we're going to get some get in a good church. We're going to get plugged in and we're going to move down the aisle in a proper way as a man and a woman not a little boy and his needs.

>> [music]

[music]

>> When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show and it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living at normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions and get your plan today.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage Jeff and Krista are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Doing well.

>> Welcome. Where do y'all live? Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. >> Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $210,000.

Oh my gosh. >> And how long did this take? 17 years.

>> [laughter] >> Okay, that'll work. >> I love it. >> And your range of income during that time? We started at 60,000 and we ended

at 110,000. Wow. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a college professor at a small Christian university in Oklahoma. Mhm.

And I am a minister at a I like to say a

healthy church of 65. Okay. [laughter] I'll go with that. I like it. I like it.

>> What was the 210,000? Um student loan,

uh car debt and the house. YOU PAID OFF YOUR HOUSE! DONE.

>> Look at weirdos. Oh my gosh. How does it feel to be weird? It's pretty amazing.

We paid it off on our anniversary this last year, so. How long you been married?

>> [laughter] >> 28, 7? What are we at? We're at 7.

>> me on the spot. 7 and a half. 27 and a half. Maybe 28 if he figures this out.

We're [laughter] working on 28. >> We're in the year 28. [snorts] >> All right. Way to go, you guys. So 10 years into the marriage that's 17 years ago you looked up and said, uh we're normal. This sucks. How did you get introduced to this whole Ramsey thing? Well, uh initially it was a through a church. Um we they were doing FPU and we kind of went through it, watched the videos. It was I was looking at your timeline over there. It was like the the 6-month long one. Yeah. Whatever it was.

And uh we didn't do any of that stuff for for [laughter] a number of years. It sounded pretty good. Um but as you say, I'm probably the one that held it back. I'm more of the free spirit. She's the kind of nerd of the family. Mhm. And um but we kind of got

um into our marriage and realized that we probably hadn't been taught very well on these kind of things. And I think the big thing was we we were um moving for jobs in ministry

and we went to sell a house in about 2010 and the house that be 2008, 2009

was worth about 30 grand less than we we had borrowed on it at that point and all of the stress that came with that that we decided, yeah, we needed to get out of all that anxiety. Yeah. [snorts] And for us, I think um you know, when you say 17 years, it doesn't sound impressive, but I think what's really cool is um all the things we cash flowed while we did that. Um so [snorts] it's or just ask us to do a whole lot of things and um have a list. Okay.

>> So um we have adopted six kids. Wow.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Four of them are international adoptions. That was cheap. Yeah, right.

Exactly. [laughter] Um we have our three oldest kids have graduated college. Well, the one's going to graduate this year. Um [snorts] debt-free. Wow. What a beautiful family.

>> younger ones are in private school um which we felt very strongly we needed to do and for several reasons.

Um all six of the oldest kids have had a

401, Dave, matching cars.

Wow. We've had several cars that we've purchased and sold through that time as well. Um we have a mission organization called Mission 1010 in Ethiopia that um we were on the founding board for and I go yearly um for mission trips to Ethiopia.

Um is that that's where you did the adoptions? Yes, it is.

>> them are and then some of them were domestically here through Ryan and I. You adopted how many? Eight or six? Six.

Six. Wow.

And [snorts] um so I we were trying to count up on our way here. Number of number of health surgery incidents. >> had 10 surgeries in our family in the past 17 years.

>> yeah, that's logical.

And um every single appliance in our house has been replaced at least once.

Um one summer we replaced both of our heat and air units. Wow. Um so that was um 8 grand just right there in the summer. >> flowing all this, right?

Right. Yes. And you're a professor of what? What do you teach?

>> of mathematics. >> Mathematics. Yeah. And uh >> [laughter] >> in fact, I teach a unit in my or we call it contemporary mathematics um on financial math at the very end and we talk about this and we talk about Murphy's Law and about all the things that can go wrong with purchasing a home before you're ready for it.

And I mentioned a little probability and statistics, yeah.

So now you've gone through all of this and you're 100% debt-free. Yes, sir. How

does that feel? It's It's amazing. I was over there in I think it was John Delony book that says building an an anxious life.

>> life, yeah. A non-anxious life and when you're you know raising adopted kids and foster kids it's nice not to have the anxiety >> [laughter] >> of finances. >> of something else. >> doing all of that, so that just kind of resonated with me just the anxiety level just drops.

Amazing when you don't have to worry about just car payments much less you know home payments.

>> [laughter] >> It's all in there. It's exciting, yeah. Oh my gosh. >> That is so fun. You all are amazing people. I mean not only to do this journey but what you've done. Yeah, you've given your lives away. >> 100% 100% incredible.

>> think it's a honestly what you do and what I mean it's just biblical. We talk about you got to talk about all that all the time.

As a minister I just preach all the time that the the church needs to preach this stuff. Just the effectiveness effectiveness of a debt-free church I just can't imagine what it would be like and and and the more that we get on board with that I just I can't imagine what God would do if we were still good stewards of our finances. Yeah, yeah. It changes everything. And here you are with your house paid for and six adoptions. Oh my gosh.

Pretty incredible. That's a long journey and there's a lot of claw and a lot of dirt under the fingernails to get that done. That's amazing. It was one of those things like you want to go faster but when you're trying to manage all the other things that the Lord's asking you to do at the same time it just wasn't in the cards.

>> Yeah, you talk about the hustle sometimes. Sometimes it's just realizing you can live with a lot less than you think you can. Yeah, so along the way Jeff actually had been working in corporate America as well in IT and he took a significant pay cut to become a pastor. And I remember our oldest son saying after that had happened that he didn't feel like there was a pay cut.

He didn't he didn't feel it and um I think that's pretty incredible cuz he should have felt it.

Yes. But you guys were living so below your means to work on this journey and for other things so yeah, exactly.

You all are amazing. Well done, you guys. >> When someone asks what the key to getting out of debt is house and everything while living a life that's this full what do you tell them the key is? Budgeting I think and making sure that you've got all of the the things taken care of. Yeah, I would say diligence and

um yeah and I think one of the key things is is find some fun. Yeah. Right? It can't it can't be at all and so there's there's less expensive ways. I mean we still go on ski trips.

We still go to the lake. We still do those kind of things and and so I think having fun in the middle of it is still necessary, too. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well done, you guys. All right, bring the kiddos up and introduce them. Some of them are here anyway. Yeah, so this is Jewel and she's 12. Boaz is

18. Um Kimberly is 17. Eli is 18 and Abigail

is 21. All right, very cool.

>> You'll have a bunch leaving the house soon. The ages, yeah. Getting close, yeah. Yes. Oh. That's yeah, that's a different praise note. >> [laughter] >> Beautiful family, yeah. >> going down.

Well, congratulations. We're proud of you guys. You're heroes. What what you've chosen to do with your lives and give your lives away and in the process still manage to set yourself free. Very

very well done. A lot of diligence. A lot of pushing. All right, Jeff and Krista and the gang Oklahoma City,

Oklahoma 210,000 paid off house and

everything. 17 years get this making 60

to a high of 110. Count it down. Let's

hear a debt-free scream. 3 2 1 WE'RE

DEBT-FREE.

THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE.

>> [applause] >> WELL, we sometimes hear from people negatively that the Ramsey stuff

does not work. God's ways of handling money does not work for large families.

And then occasionally we get a super large family standing on the debt-free stage with tears running down their face saying it does work. We're free house and everything, baby. Perseverance.

Incredible.

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>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro

to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day Proverbs 11:14 where there is no guidance a people fall. But in an abundance of counselors there is safety. Brian Tracy said failure is a prerequisite for great success. If you want to succeed faster, double your rate of failure. That's good. [laughter] Barry is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Barry, how are you?

Well and you and thank you Mr. Ramsey and staff for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Well, I'm wondering I have a small account in state teachers retirement system. It's it's very small maybe 20 or 25,000 and I I've been since my almost

full retirement now at 67.

I heard on the internet that you could use something called an IUL which is tax-free. And I I know STRS does pretty good with

you know a percentage that they earn but I've heard that there's two ways to set up an IUL. One is so that it pays a lot at your death and the other one is so that you can earn interest without without taxation. So I I I don't trust

the internet but I I try because I don't know where they're coming from but I trust you because I I know where your power comes from. So I called for advice. Well, the IUL is an indexed universal life

and in your case it would be a what's called a single premium which means you pay 20,000 bucks up front.

They would take their commissions out of that and they would put the rest of it into what's called cash value.

The cash value earnings are taxable

unless you borrow against your cash value. That's the only way that you can actually get your money out is to borrow and pay interest.

Borrow your money out and pay interest but the the earnings on an IUL are not tax-free.

That's not true.

>> Is there any way Thank you for telling me that. Is there any way to roll that over into an IUL?

No, I would not use an IUL.

Because because the fees are so stinking high and when you die your money's gone.

So instead I would just use something if you want to lower your taxes on the 20,000 and you're not going to use the income off of the 20,000 today. Do you want it to create income today?

Yeah, I I thought from what I heard from what I heard on on the internet again you never know. I I thought that you could actually earn interest and that it was not taxed.

Well, it is.

You have to borrow the money and pay pay interest on your own money for it to be not taxable because borrowed money is never taxable.

But if you actually just took the earnings straight off of the indexed universal then yes, that is a taxable event. So but but the but they they couch it that way because it's a sales technique on it's a it's a

it's a a twisted version of an old product that was simply called whole life life insurance. It's all it is.

It's a it's a newer version of screwing you. So no, I would not put a dime in it. I would stay completely away from it and what I have done instead is is a

taxable event, but if you want something that will grow without any taxes while it grows, you can use what's called a low turnover mutual fund.

Which means a mutual fund that they don't sell the stocks inside of it very often. And so as it grows in value since they're it's just like a single stock that goes up in value, you don't pay tax on it until you sell it.

And so if I you buy a share of stock and it's $50 a share, goes to $70 a share, you don't pay taxes on that gain until you sell it. And the same is true in a low turnover mutual fund. Now, if you take the money out of there in a monthly income, you're going to pay taxes on it.

And I don't know of a tax-free thing except a tax-free muni bond, a municipal bond, which you can buy a muni bond fund if you want a tax-free income. But go ahead and spoiler alert, it's about 2% rate of return. And so

crummy rate of return. So I would rather make 10 or 12 and pay some taxes and net out 10 or 12.

Um or or net out eight or 10, you know, out of tax after tax. And so that's what I have chosen to do. I haven't strained to get to uh uh tax-free income. Now, I've got a lot of tax deferred growth because I own real

estate and as it goes up in value, it doesn't get taxed. And I own these low turnover mutual funds and as it goes up, it doesn't get taxed until I cash out of it. And then it creates a taxable event called a capital gain. But no, I would stay away from universal indexed life and you're correct to be suspicious of anything on the internet uh because it's all twisted and turned and it's a barrel of fish hooks and Yeah, that's one of the things that you see is people get taking out a whole life policy and living off that money cuz like life insurance should be while you're alive.

And you're living off that money. >> way you're living off of it is borrowed though. >> you're borrowed. >> You're borrowing your own money.

Cuz it's borrowed money. >> Yeah. It's the exact same thing. So you if you want to do something very similar but has less fees, just put your money in a CD and then borrow from it. >> and then use that as collateral and borrow against the CD. And of course we're not going to tell you to do that either. That's dumb. But but it's the exact same principle. >> Yes. And then when you die, they're going to repay the loan with the CD.

And so there's nothing there. It's gone.

Poof. Just like that. And the same thing's true with the universal.

Same thing. So um you know, but you know, bar that they they it's always been humorous to me that these guys in the cash value life insurance world, "It's tax-free." It's it it borrowed money is never taxable, doofus.

Of course it's tax-free.

You know, I mean these guys these TikTok guys are just they're cute cuz they're like an old it's like a new version of an old scam.

Bailey is in Asheville, North Carolina.

Hi Bailey, how are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I have a a question about so

I can just give you the rundown.

So my wife and I own a business and we

make custom hats for a living out of our own laundry room.

Um 23. I'm still in school.

Um I got I got married in 2023. We had our first child in 2024.

And now we have another son on the way.

Good for you. And how much you're making on the hat business, dude?

So we just started up in 2024. I'm at

about 40 grand that is in my pocket this year. So far?

In profit or in gross revenues?

In profit. That's after you bought the hats and paid for them.

Right. Yes. >> Good for you. And you did that in 3 months? You're making $10,000 a month on hats? No, I'm so I'm sorry. I meant I meant to say last year. This this year we uh This year >> Oh, so in 1 year you made 40,000 with your side hustle out of the laundry room. Yes. >> That's awesome, man. And you're how old? 24?

23 and >> how do you make it your day job?

So I I was working for a guy that he was

um a he worked at a or he owned a print shop and Do you have a day job?

Oh, no. I do not have a day job.

>> your only job is hats out of the laundry room. Yes. Good for you. Wow, okay. How can I help for I run out of time?

Um so I I've actually have an opportunity to purchase another printing business that would allow me to um expand my business. He's a he's in a brick and mortar, but that is separate from the business. Um I would not do that.

You have a good thing going.

Why are you dumbing it down and getting into a business that's dying? Your hat business is blowing up. Printing business is tough right now.

Well, so he's he's kind of doing exactly

what I'm doing, but and he's doing screen printing. I'm doing hats.

Yeah, but you don't have all the overhead.

Right. I don't.

Why would you want overhead?

Well, the only the only purpose is for

the location that the the building is in. It's a great Why do you need a location? Your laundry room's working great.

Right, for sure. I'm just I'm kind of running out of room as well. Well, go go go rent something for $300 somewhere.

>> Don't go purchase something big. >> Do not go buy a building and buy a business because your hat business is working out of your laundry room. No, no, no, no. These things are not connected.

They're not connected. You are doing a great job. Take what you're doing and do more of it. Don't take on somebody else's problems.

Okay. Cuz hat Let me tell you, hat business, you're doing all this on the internet. You're not You're marketing you don't you A brick and mortar location does not sell you hats.

If it does, go to the person that's got the brick and mortar location and rent 100 square feet of their front window from them.

But don't take on the whole business.

And no, no, no, no, no. Go do more hats, Bailey. Hats are working. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 63. Financial Shortcuts Won't Build Longterm Wealth | January 21, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb2KhAljStw) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:48:32 |

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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Rachel [music] Cruz, also my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour, which you can get on YouTube or podcast. You call us

88825-5225 [music] and we'll help you take the right next step for your money and your life. Daisy kicks us off in Phoenix. Daisy, welcome to the show.

Hey there, it's Daisy and I've just been

um I'm just in a little bit of a knot

with Only Fans.

>> Oh. >> So I Yeah. Um I've been doing it for

about three years now and as of recently

I've fallen pregnant and would like to,

you know, become a stay-at-home mom from that. >> Okay. So there's a multiple pieces here.

You've been doing this for three years and you want out only now because you're trying to start a family.

>> No, I have been wanting an out for a while now, but as of recently, I found

out I'm pregnant. So, it's like >> this just gave you the kickstart to go motivation. Okay, Daisy, how old are you? >> I'm 21. >> You're 21. Okay. And who is the father

of the baby? Is it a someone you're dating? Is it Are you married? What's >> it's my boyfriend? We've been together for about 2 and a half years now.

>> Okay. Wonderful. >> Okay. And what is your current income?

Just you. >> Um, my current income is honestly about

$1,000 a month right now because my boyfriend, he's the one that takes care of everything. >> Okay. How much does he make?

>> He makes about 4,000.

>> All right. And you guys have you've combined finances already?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And Daisy, is that I mean, is the $1,000 coming from Only Fans? That's your income? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Okay. Well, the positive thing is

you could replace that in a heartbeat

doing anything else, right? I mean, it's So, so [clears throat] >> if he gets a $10,000 raise, he effectively replaced her income.

>> Mhm. >> Would he What does he do for work?

>> Him or you, Daisy? I mean, just for the for the time being, though. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, >> how how far along are you? >> Yes. Um, I just uh found out last week,

so I'm about five weeks.

>> Oh, congrats. Okay, so early on. Thank you. That's good. How you feeling? This is >> Oh, I'm feeling great.

>> I've been trying for months now. So, >> Rachel meant like morning sickness. >> I meant like Yeah. The the first trimester is always tough.

So, >> actually none of that luckily thankfully. >> Good. Okay. So, Daisy, yeah.

I mean, so to be able to replace this, I mean, you could do this, you know, doing Uber Eats, you know what I mean? thousand bucks a month, >> 250 a week >> could be found Yeah. Yeah. It could be found super easy, which I'm I'm thankful for because sometimes when people are looking to replace their income and especially when you're in this like moral dilemma of how you're making your money, >> sometimes you're trying to replace like >> 10,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Like like a crazy amount that would be hard to replace. This is easy.

So yeah. So I >> And luckily we're not in debt either at all. So >> Okay. So no debt.

Um, we did have savings, but unfortunately that was taken from taxes and just um just a bunch of life things.

So, no, we don't have any emergency savings right now, but however, we do have uh 20,000 in savings for my mother.

>> From your mother?

>> Yes, my mom, she's uh kept a a savings for me. >> Okay. And do you have access to it now?

Is this a like a gift that she's given you? Um, it's whenever like we're ready

for a house, ready for marriage, any big things like that. >> Okay. Well, speaking of marriage, when is that going to come into the picture?

>> Hopefully soon. Hopefully soon.

>> Like before the baby's here.

>> Oh, yes. Um, ring possibly, yes.

Marriage, possibly no, because I'm under my mom's insurance right now.

>> Okay. And you would lose that when you get married?

I don't exactly know, but I'd have to recheck. >> I know. I think you can still I mean, yeah, because your husband, if he if he has a benefit of insurance, I think he can opt in as an individual. And if you're under 25, I think you can still, right? >> I would I would not get married because you think you may not have mom's insurance.

>> So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going, "Hey, courthouse wedding, >> the time to do all this in order is long gone. Let's at least speed things up here." And so if he's the one, he's going to be the father. He's going to be in this baby's life. You're committed to each other. Let's go ahead and get married. We can have a party later on down the road. >> Yeah. >> And I agree with that completely.

>> Yeah. And that way, Daisy, you guys can start to combine your lives even more, right? I mean, it's not only from a legal standpoint when you get married, but also from a financial because I would not be combining money with him until you guys are married. And so there does have to be because you are living together, you're going to have to figure out like a pay schedule, right, of okay, he's going to be in charge of these things, I'm in charge of this, you know, whatever it looks like to run the household of how you guys are.

But um but yeah, there there's something about that marriage. And again, it's is it is if he's the one and I mean, he's going to be in your life. I mean, I assume regardless because you guys have a kid together, you know.

um yeah, I think stopping the income

source right now from the only fans cuz >> Are you done done like account shut down? >> No, I don't have the account shut down.

I've just been running it, but every time I go do it, I just have a complete breakdown and just cry cry about how much I don't want to do it.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, Daisy, for your I mean, for your sake, girl. like it's >> it's not worth the money and your your mental health, your emotional health, your relationship. >> There's a there's there's something trapped in there for you that would be freed up from you. I mean, seriously, when that gets closed down, there is something a dignity that gets placed back into you and who you are. And so,

>> this is not your identity. It never was.

And I know it's it's hard to separate that because this is what you've been doing >> and you've been getting attention and affirmation and money from this, but this is not healthy in any way, shape, or form. >> Correct. Yes. >> And so I would shut it down today as a line in the sand to yourself. >> Does your boyfriend know about it?

>> Yes, he's known about it. And we've just kind of made a goal to kind of push through it because we actually both do it. >> He's okay [laughter] with it. >> He's involved.

>> Um, we both do it. [snorts] >> Oh boy.

[laughter] Is that where he's Is that where he's making his money? >> No, no, no. He's an electrical apprentice and that's where he he makes his most money. >> That's an honorable position. Can he make more doing that? When is he done with the apprenticeship?

>> Um I He's about to come up on his two

years this year.

>> Okay. Like before the baby's here, he'll be done and and have an upgrade in income. >> Um possibly not. I don't think so. But

we have been looking for uh possibly

finding him a new electrical job. Yes.

>> Okay. And what are your household expenses right now? Have you guys actually sat down, done the math, you know, kind of what it's going to take to run your house?

>> Yes, correct. We kind of live in an apartment right now and we're hoping to actually move into a house though before >> rent a house or buy a house.

>> Um depending on what the cards play out.

>> Well, I can tell you the cards right now. You guys don't have the money to buy a house. That 20 grand is not down payment money. That is emergency fund money, especially with a baby on the way. We are not going to touch that.

>> Okay. >> So, Daisy, you've got some hard choices to make, some hard conversations, but you can do this. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom, you can do this. We got to figure out how to live on his income alone. And the hardest part is just detaching from this life that you guys have been living. [music] >> Correct. Yes. And I'd really love to cuz I mean like you know especially becoming [music] parents you know you don't want that difference. >> And Daisy listen to your gut.

Something's telling you to get out. And I and I would [music] I would do some deep marriage uh premarital counseling work cuz I don't like the guy you're marrying is okay with all of this either. That I don't like that.

>> That gives me serious pause. I'd find a good community, a good church home, and hopefully a good therapist you can detach from this life you've been living. Best of luck. [music]

>> [music]

>> You know, every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts.

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15 or 20-year plan is in many cases just

plain cheap. That amount of coverage lets your family keep the lights on and keep food on the table while they're grieving. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough, especially since these plans go away if you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it.

Third, stay-at-home parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So, no more excuses, folks. Get the protection your family needs.

800356-4282.

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>> [music]

>> Shane is in Vegas up next. What's going on Shane? [music] >> Hey y'all. Thanks for having me on. It's an honor to be speaking to you today. >> Thank you. How can we help today?

>> Um yeah, so uh favorite topic for you

guys, money and family.

>> Uh long time ago when I was 18, took out

uh student loans. uh with the agreement with my father that they would pay uh until the balance is zero. Um 35 now

balance is still in the mid70s to uh

mid700. [clears throat] >> Oh my gosh. >> What was it originally? >> Yeah. >> Uh it was over 120. So uh they've been paying it down. They've been making minimum payments. >> That's a problem.

>> I I agree with you. Uh the issue I'm really having is that my dad is he's totally fine paying it. He still makes the payments, but my mother constantly brings up the fact that they are paying for my student loans. Um, feels like there's strings attached when at the very beginning there were never uh those agreements put >> and there was a clear agreement.

Hey, we're we're going to pay these off. We can't we don't have the money to cover it, but take out the loan and we'll cover it. Is it in your name or their name or both? >> They're they're in my name.

Uh they have the money. Uh, I mean, right now they could snap their fingers and pay it off, but the the way my father sees it is he can make more money in the stock market, so he just chooses to.

>> Yeah, they're still together. Um, >> are you married still financially? I am married. Yes. >> Okay. So, when you guys are around your parents, how often is that? How often do y'all see them? >> Uh, we I mean we live on separate sides of the country, so once twice a year, but uh even in some phone calls, the still come. >> And what does she say? like what are her comments?

>> Um, a lot of the times it's like revolved around like, "Oh, you just bought a truck. Like that could have gone to >> the student loans or oh, you took a nice vacation. Like why is that money?" But but you know, going back to where I said it's that was never part of the agreement, so I'd never feel >> uh obligated. Um, but then, you know, my father, he's like, "Yeah, I I don't care. I'm still paying them. It's whatever." So, >> have you rather frustrating.

>> Yeah. Do you push back on her at all?

>> I do. I try to keep it, you know, calm and and light, but uh my wife is really

the one that gets frustrated about it. >> That's why I was asked if you were married cuz I feel like I would be like, >> "Oh my gosh." >> See, this is the issue with the student loan stuff is these parents are like, "Sure, go take out whatever you want to go take out." And you're 18, Shane, right? And >> sure, you sign it. I mean, yeah, you're 18.

You're an adult. So yes, you have some responsibility in the sense of like you chose to make that decision, but you also had fully functioning adults in your life that said yes, we and we would pay for this. So I almost would have a very kind but a very clear conversation with her um around the boundaries of these comments because it starts to erode the relationship.

>> Yeah. >> Doesn't sound like I mean that's why you're calling, right? This is your this is >> Yeah. A lot of tension. >> Yes. Okay. >> Okay. Um, so yeah, I mean I would I would tell her and I and I would be very kind, but I would be very very clear and

>> and just and to be honest with her and say, you know, mom, there have been multiple comments made. I mean, you could give her some examples. And the truth is, when I was 18, you all told me that you would take them out and you would pay for this. >> And I'm I'm holding y'all to that word.

I mean, that that's what was said. If something has changed and you and dad agree on a different plan, you're I'm happy to have a discussion with you if that's the case. But that's not been the discussion. And so I need you to stop stop making these comments. They're passive aggressive and and it's eroding our relationship. Can you do that, mom?

And at that point, that's up to her.

She's the adult that gets to make the decision if she wants to continue a healthy relationship. >> Listen, I don't control y'all's money.

That's your decision. So this is now a marital problem they have of mom disagrees with how dad is handling a debt they agreed to pay. >> That's a good point, too. Yeah.

>> So legally, yes, it's yours. They could stop paying today and it's going to come to you. Now, they haven't done that yet, and I'm glad that they're not intentionally trying to tank your life, but this might be another conversation with dad of saying, "Hey, listen. You have the money.

I don't care how much you can make in the freaking stock market. This is eroding our relationship, which is way more important than some spread you could make." And so, you can try to also influence him to, you know, sort of This would solve everything, wouldn't it? If dad just wrote the check, paid him off, and went, "Dude, it's been 17 years." >> Be pissed. I don't know.

Would your mom be mad at that? >> Yeah. H knows.

>> I'm sorry. Can you say it again? >> She doesn't want any of their money to be used to pay for any more of your student loans. She's just done with this whole thing.

>> I It's hard to say. Um I know they're

financially well off. Like they're My mom is retired. My dad, he makes fairly decent living. And I know what their nest egg is and and uh in liquid and retirement. So, I know like >> this is not a big part of their world.

It's not a big part of our their world and uh you know my wife and I we make decent money. Uh so like the payment could it would be totally fine for us to take on. It's just like >> I need to know if I need to start paying my $80,000. >> Do you guys have the money to write a check and pay this off today?

>> Um not in like liquid assets. I mean uh I could save a couple more months and it would be fine. Uh but then it would just wipe out all of our uh liquid investments. So, not >> my wife doesn't really want to do that one.

So, it would probably just be >> what I'm hearing is either way someone's going to be angry. And so, that's the thing we have to make peace with is who do we want to upset? And the truth is you can't control how they react or respond.

>> That's fair.

>> So, I don't I was just saying if you wanted to, this is the other option is you write a check and say, "Mom, I don't want this to come between us and destroy our relationship. Here's the freaking check to pay off the loans. Yep. That's the other pisses me off those because Yeah, because they've been they freaking have had this for almost 20 years.

>> Yes. The immaturity is on mom's side at this point and dad's for >> and I'm sure they are exhausted. But yes, it's >> been two decades, man. >> When your when your 18-year-old wants to go and take out $120,000, you say no.

But no, they didn't. They said yes, we will we will do this and take this on.

And so they're the ones that have been dragging their feet. It's not his it's not your fault. Sh. I mean, you know what I mean? To that degree, cuz there was a deal. There was a deal that was made. >> Um, yeah. So, I'm sorry. That's so

frustrating. But I would I I mean, >> for the for your your wife's sake, for your sake to like be in her presence and have passive aggressive comments constantly. Um, >> yeah, >> I would Yeah, I would be clear and and draw a boundary there. But again, kind but clear.

>> And there might be help, guys.

>> Yeah, there might be a compromise where you go, "Hey, listen. here's how much I'm willing to chip in to just >> Man, you're really trying to bail the parents out, but they're fine. If they were on food stamps, like I get that.

>> No, they have the ability to. And so that's where I go. This is really between mom and dad because they have a disagreement. Mom should be mad at dad, not the son. >> Cuz dad's been dragging his feet for 17 years. Can I remind you?

>> No, they both have.

>> Goodness gracious. >> That's >> And clearly mom doesn't have a vote when it comes to finances. >> I feel like we're getting more and more of these. I don't know why. I feel like I we hear more and more parent resentment guilt to adult children with the student loan debacle in the mix of

someone said they were going to pay, they're not paying or they're paying and they're mad but this was >> asking me for money again.

Yeah. I mean it's just it's so much. Um so >> so can we talk about our parameters around family and money? I think it's a good reminder for everyone listening here which is this. Never loan money to

family or friends. If you want to give money, make it a gift. And please don't go into debt for said gift. That's not really a gift. We've heard that with like, well, mom got me a car. It has a loan on it and so I, you know, I got to pay it, but she got me the car, >> right? Yes. >> And so it's fine if you want to give.

>> And if the giving ends up becoming a pattern of enabling bad behavior or irresponsibility, that's another stop, right? We're not doing that.

>> Um, but the the gets because I mean part of the show is about changing your family tree, right? getting yourself in a position where you can change your life, you change your family's life, you change others lives. Like the ripple effect is beautiful and wonderful and we want that to be, but we also want the people on the other side that are receiving it to be in a healthy good spot themselves to have their own dignity um as adults. So that and then the other thing, George, no co-signing >> ever.

>> Please, please, no cosign. We had a grandma who co-signed. That was last week on the show, I think. I know.

But she was like 92. And this guy's like, "Yeah, my grandma cosigned." I was like, "You poor grandmother. You're he's broke. He's probably not going to be able to make the payment." >> Yeah.

They require a co-signer cuz nobody trusts you to pay it off.

>> And so what happens is you end up not paying it off and they go after poor grandma >> who thought you were going to make the payments perfectly. And she was just more of a, you know, >> more of a just like a nice thing. I'll sign it, but I won't ever have to deal with it. >> Right.

Right. >> Never think that. It will destroy a relationship and cause resentment. And so it's so much easier to just either put the boundary up and to say no or give a one-time gift if it's going to be a blessing and you're not enabling terrible >> time though.

You think just once for the rest of their life? >> Well, not like an ongoing, hey, I'm going to give you a,000 bucks every month forever. >> The pattern. [music] Yes.

>> You know what I mean? If you reward bad behavior, that's when it turns into entitlement. >> Agreed.

Why would I go work harder? That's silly. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

Trina [music] is in Florida up next.

Trina, welcome to the Ramsay Show. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Hi. Hey, I'm so excited, you guys.

>> We're excited as well. >> We're glad you called, Trina. We're excited to talk to you.

>> Okay, guys. I'm having this like issue.

I always said I wanted to retire by the time I was 40. I am almost 40.

>> Wow. >> It's an aggressive plan. >> My dad did it twice before he turned 40.

And I'm just like, >> wait, wait. Hold on. He retired twice.

What do you mean?

So he retired from the city and then he

retired from boxing. So he like got to retire twice before he was authority.

>> Was he said boxing retirement?

>> Yeah. >> Like he was a professional boxer.

>> Yeah. He was like semi-pro.

Did he have to do it to earn money?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So he didn't really like get to retire. >> He was semi-retired while semi and then

fully retired. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And he >> I was trying to relieve some pressure for you of like >> is that where this idea came from then?

You're like I want to be like dad. I want to retire by 40.

>> Well I it inspired me. Yes. I like that. I've always been like a overachiever and work hard like yeah. An aggressive goal you know of something big that you're like I want to work for that. I get that. Okay. Okay. Perfect. So keep going.

>> So yeah, how can we help?

>> So I ran into a financial situation.

It's not a lot of debt. It's like $44,000 worth of debt and I make about 60. So, I want to pay this debt off. And I kind of debt about >> um it's like 20,000 in a car.

um like 4,000 about in um personal loans

and like 2,000 in my son's private school

that I still owe and oh credit cards like 16,000 in

credit cards. >> Woo.

>> Doesn't feel like a recipe to early retirement.

>> [laughter] >> Like if I was trying to retire early, I'd probably go, "Hey, I'm going to make sure I don't owe people money and have money saved on top of that." >> And um >> so how long how long has this been floating around? How long have you had this debt for?

>> Um so I filed a bankruptcy about two years ago. Um this is when all of this started. >> So all of this debt was post bankruptcy or did it get were you on a payment plan? What happened?

Um, so actually the only debt that I don't technic like

I don't have to pay back um one of the personal loans, one of the credit cards and yeah >> because of because of the bankruptcy.

>> Because of the bankruptcy. issue is that

I want to keep the relationship with that bank and I want to pay them their money back cuz I never wanted to put the items in bankruptcy. I was still paying it but they said that because I filed a

chapter 7 that they had to put it in the >> What caused you to file bankruptcy two years ago? What was the what were your numbers then?

>> So then I was making about um it kind of

flip-flopped. I was making about 40 then

I went back to 60. Um then I think

before that I made 80. Um so what

happened was I was working for this company. I had moved. I was working for this company. Um basically I decided I wanted to open up my own company because we're under government contracts. We have a certain criteria that we have to meet. When I said that I wanted to open

up my company, the government's agency

said that they had to take away all my clients. So, basically, I went from

having, you know, a a decent income to

like having nothing the next day.

>> Okay. And it was all because of this new business. >> Yes. >> So, the new business never never took off, but you took out loans to float the business for a bit and that's what caused the bankruptcy.

>> No. So, when they took my clients, um,

it took a while. It took about a year and a half for me to open up and to get

clients. So, I started having clients in

September. I had like maybe 15. Um, now

I have like 25. So, and that's all I need. >> Yes. But Trina, I'm What caused the bankruptcy two years ago, though? Was it consumer debt? Was it business loans?

What was it?

So, I had these um student loans and I

put them in an adversary proceeding where I filed bankruptcy to get rid of the student loans while I was waiting for my agency to open. When the agency

um when the agency didn't take off right away, I started using my kids college funds, my retirement boy, >> I started pulling everything out.

>> Okay. And so I started listing um and I

started working as with another company

but that company just didn't pay that much. I >> gota Okay. So Trina I have a new goal for you. I think instead of retiring at 40 we are going to learn to live debtree

>> which I usually do.

>> But this is like Trina. So far it's [laughter] been everyone else's fault and the government took your clients away. >> Oh no. Well, I'm not saying she's pushing on everyone's paw, but like nutrina, you got to be able to say like I I Yes. I I'm used to living with debt, though. From student loans to where you are now, there's a pattern of you using debt. Can we say yes to that?

>> Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. I wasn't looking at it. Sorry. >> No, you're great. No, I just want to make sure we're tracking. So, I think in order to have a completely new mindset with money from where you've been of saying, I'm living completely debtree.

Debt's not an option. debt is not an option. I'm going to save up and pay for things. I'm not going to be making unwise decisions about purchases and pulling money out of retirement or kids college or investments because that's not wise, right?

Where um that stuff is all for the future and I'm going to learn to live within my income and my means and that means making hard decisions about lifestyle and about, you know, yeah, I mean, life choices and everything. And so, I mean, genuinely, I would make that the goal.

in I don't know what two years like make make a make a goal to aggressive goal to

get out of debt to save up a fully funded emergency fund um >> and freeze your credit that way it stops your debtree plan >> two and a half years is okay >> okay that's so great >> we never even got to your question I'm sorry there's so much details to jump into what is your actual question we can help you with >> well I wanted to basically um flip this piece of property. They have a piece of land that's for sale. It hasn't been impacted yet. I wanted to do like a creative finance to see if I can >> No, we're off.

>> Remember 10 seconds ago we talked about >> the new goal.

>> That's fair. That was her original question. That's fair. We made a new goal 10 seconds ago. Yeah. Okay. So So how would you answer how would you answer this now? Trina, answer your own question with your new goals in mind.

So, I am going to stick to my two and a half year budget that literally just looks like this month.

>> And that's what we're talking about, Trina. See, >> be debtree after that and then

maybe save the money instead of

>> Look at you. And how old how old are you, Trina?

>> I'm 38. >> 38. Okay. Can I tell you if you don't retire by 40, you're not a failure?

>> I promise. Can I just promise you that if you don't retire by 60, you're not a failure. >> How about this? You're not a failure.

Period. >> Oh, >> there you go. That's the most encouraging thing I've said today.

>> Rachel can [laughter] attest to that.

>> But the truth is I we have these aggressive goals and we need to create actions to get there. And we can't hold ourselves to these goals because life is going to happen. And so it's okay to pivot the dream. But one thing we can't do is pivot in going backwards and rob our future. Rob our children's future.

You are worth more than that. And so from today forward, you're a person who doesn't go into debt, who doesn't owe people money.

>> And all your decisions can be based off of that value system because that brings you freedom, Trina. There's no shortcut.

There's no like, okay, I can do this creative financing here and do this and I'll make 20 grand just like that and look at that. Like that's that doesn't work. That's not the real world. It is it is hard work. It is the long game. It

is a marathon. It's not a sprint. And it's just a different mindset you have to be in to get true financial freedom and true control over your money. And so

you do have to shift the way you've been doing it. Trina, if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And [music] so, um, yeah, I'm glad that Trina, uh, answered her own question.

>> We got there. >> We're not going to finance a piece of land to build a home to flip it. Uh, we are going to work on getting out of debt. derisk your life. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. And so this creative financing is just adding more risk to the puzzle. And so be free.

That's your best path to an early retirement. >> You're awesome, Trina. Thanks for thanks for calling.

[music]

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[music] If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. You can track your progress, plus get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work to plan even faster.

It's like having one of us walking with you every day, 24/7, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. So, start every dollar for free. You can download it in the App Store or Google Play. Miriam is in New

York City up next. Miriam, how can we help? >> Hi, it's a pleasure to speak to both of you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. Uh my question is about life insurance. Um we pushed off getting life life insurance way too long and I thought it would pretty straightforward.

Um the I wanted to call down insurance

and my husband knew two people who kept

bugging him that they wanted to sell him life insurance. So I said, "Okay, we need a 20-year term." And I think we got

a little screwed by them because we ended up getting a policy which they said it was 20 year but it's extendable 20 year. >> Oh, so after the 20 years you can reup at the current premiums for your age which is going to be two to five times higher >> something like that. But I think when we got the package which was after you know we have 30 days to cancel or whatever but it's past the 30 days. Either way either way I'm going to replace it.

But it goes up even before the 20 years I think. Like there's a whole chart. It's hard to understand. I >> Yeah, >> I'm not really sure.

>> Who'd you get it through?

>> I've Northwestern.

>> Oh boy. Okay, you've said enough. I

would cancel yesterday.

>> It's not a scam. And they're they're a company who does all kinds of financial products, but likely what happens.

Here's what I've seen. It's mostly young guys right out of college who want some sales experience and they sell the scummiest life insurance products to unsuspecting victims like their family and friends. >> Right. Yeah, that's what I've seen.

That's accurate. >> So, I'm not dogging the whole company.

>> Yep. That's exactly what >> that's my brother. Same thing happened to my own brother, right? Some guy from college reaches out. Hey, man. How you doing? >> And so, I would get out of this and I would contact our friends at Xander because they're not going to sell you extendable term life insurance. Term life insurance by definition. >> Already reach out to Xander.

>> Okay. >> I So, I just wanted to know like based on should I take 20 year, should I take 30 year? They said that Dave recommends a child rider, which I never heard on the show. >> Hold on, hold on. Northwestern said Dave recommends a child writer. >> No, no, no. Vander, >> for what reason?

>> Oh, I don't know. I have four kids.

That's why I I I never heard it from him. That's why I I called because I I want to understand. And then somebody else I'm getting very overwhelmed, but somebody else told me that we should really do a disability rider. I don't >> No, there's there's a lot of riders.

And when you hear the word rider, just think gimmick. And so all you need is term life insurance. 20 years should be enough. And here's how to think about it.

In 20 years time, you should be self-insured.

So that's the goal. And if it needs if you need 25 years to get there, then you get 25.

>> Well, and that that's what I'm asking.

How do I We're in baby step 3B. We're going to New York, so that's taking a while. Um I have four kids, one on the way, and I'm not done. My husband and I are both from very large families. So, I'm thinking my kids are not going to be out of the house in 20 years. Should I go longer? Should I look for something in between to add?

>> Yeah. I mean, you could see how much it is because Are you guys in good health, would you say? Yes.

>> Okay. Because that's the great thing about term life is it is so inexpensive and then when it comes up for time for renewal, you can always, you know, go back through and recheck things and make different decisions, right? >> You can always get additional policies, you know, in a few years. Now, it's going to be more expensive as you age.

with them. get the math on it and always stick to term no matter what. Just term and if it's 15, 20, 25, that's fine. And always get 10 to 12 times your annual income or your husband's annual income.

And both of you should have your own individual policies. >> Yeah. And and you're saying not 30, 25

should I shouldn't go more than that.

>> 30 feels aggressive. If the kids are still in the house at that point, that's on them. And you guys will be multi-millionaires by >> I was going to say cuz I mean in Yes.

You'll be selfinsured >> in 25 years. Yes. Miriam, if you guys are investing 15% of your income, if you guys are working to pay everything off, I'm like, it's just that continues to build. That's where you build wealth. And in 25 years, what that's going to end up being is a lot of money. And so for the kids that are in the home, maybe it's one or two of them. They're going to have plenty of money. The others should be out living their own lives.

Um, you know, and not needing your financial. >> You'll have a village at that point to take care of each other. So, I'm less worried 25 years from now about what life looks like if you follow the plan.

>> Exactly. Okay. I I can I ask one more quick question. Sure. >> About if when your income goes up, you're supposed 10 to 12 times your income. So then do you buy another plan in term with for the difference?

>> You can you can get a small policy for the difference? I wouldn't cancel the one you currently have and get a new one. You can always add you look at that like in a year if it goes up every few years. >> It's a parameter.

So if you get a $5,000 raise, you don't need to go out and get an extra policy, >> right? But if you get a substantial raise and your lifestyles change and your expenses have changed dramatically, that's when you go, "All right, we need to reook at this." >> Yeah, it's about every four to five years, I would reook. And in the, you know, the kids situation, too, changes it. I mean, for me, >> um, so yeah, but I'd say, yeah, every every four to five years.

Um, cuz we still get it.

>> I don't know. I I like having it, you know, even if we're debtree and every day there's a part of me that I'm like, nah, we're young and healthy and it's cheap and that's the great thing about >> for what it costs, I mean, it's a great policy to have a long time ago.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um Yeah. So, anything fancy around it, any words you don't understand, Miriam, usually is like a that's a red flag to me. They're adding things on. Uh if it's a young guy that's in the situation and there and it's all these weird terms again that they're selling you this package, probably not a great deal. Like the simpler the better.

Just a 20 year 25 years >> and they always want to pray on your emotions and the whatifs and well a good parent would do this if you really want to take care of your kids. >> And kids don't need life insurance only you you know I mean all of it. So >> it's meant to do one thing which is replace income. That's it.

>> Yeah. your two-year-old is not bringing, you know, money into the house here, unless he's like a Gerber baby making bank. So, uh, you're asking really good questions, Miriam, and I love that you're taking care of your family in this way. Most people are going, "What the heck are they talking about? I don't have any insurance." And so, for everyone out there listening, you need term life insurance if anybody depends on you, a spouse or children. And it's very affordable. And you can call our friends at Xander and get this done today. 800356-4282

or go to xander.com. They'll take care of you. Rachel and I both have our policies through Xander for our families and it's well worth the money. >> Yeah, and Xander's great because they go and shop.

Yeah. All different companies versus again like a Northwestern, right? To pick on them a little bit, but it's like, okay, it's just one or Affleck, it's just one, you know what I mean? I guess their car. I don't know if they do live. >> They probably do it all these days. >> Probably. But yeah, it's not just the one company that you're getting the price from. What Xander does, they shop all the companies to get you the best price of what you're looking. And a lot of these now have uh no medical exams.

Like if you're under, I don't know, a million dollar policy. Oh, really?

>> You don't have to go get the medical exam or, you know, so that's that's always nice. Not have to get >> convenience. >> Have someone come to the house and get pricricked and get your blood done or go somewhere and get the blood work done. I love it. >> Uh and it's a good idea to get healthy before you shop for life insurance. Cut the bad habits. >> Be thinking about your diet the night before your blood [laughter] gets drawn.

>> It's like cramming for a test. You're like, "Well, if I don't eat bad today, >> fast and drink a lot of water because [laughter] >> you're like googling how fast will my blood work be good if I cut sweets." >> I know. Yep. >> That's a good reminder. >> Yeah. And I think those are some of the saddest calls, George, of um, you know,

um, we'll get, you know, a widowerower widowerower or a widow calling that their spouse passed away and they have kids and they're trying to pick up the pieces, you know, whether they're trying to find a new job or starting to work because they were a stay at home parent or trying to figure out child care for the kids. So they can go to work. I mean, it's just >> it and and if there is no life insurance, >> Yeah. >> then they are they have nothing, you know, they're just like with what it is.

And so it is. >> And the sad part is a lot of people think they're covered cuz they're like, "Well, uh, he has one through work." And they go, "Well, how much is that policy?" They go, "It's $50,000." I was like, "Well, great. We can get by for maybe 6 to 12 months, but what about after that?" And so the goal here is if you make $50,000 and you get a $500,000 policy, you could invest that money and it would be able to spit off $50,000 with the average return in the market. And so that's the goal of getting 10 to 12 times your income is because the stock market historically has done about 10 to 12%.

And so that's the reason for life insurance. That's the mechanics of it. And it doesn't take long. I know it feels like, well, I'm going to die sooner if I get life insurance.

No, you're going to die regardless. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 50 years, but either way, you need to sleep better knowing that your family's protected.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruz. You can call us at8825-55225.

That is the only way to get through and get your question answered. Joe is up next in Huntsville, Alabama. What's going on, Joe?

>> Hi, guys. Um, I just want to [clears throat] thank y'all for taking my call and before I get into it, I want to thank all of you for all the work that you do at Church of the Highlands in Alabama. >> A thank you. >> Thank you. >> Good people over there.

>> Yeah. Thank y'all. Well, I'm just calling because um I've got I came into marriage with about uh 30,000 in student

loans. Um and we now owe about 23 on it.

We are not homeowners yet, but we have

been blessed by just gifts um and what

we both brought into the marriage of saving and we have about 122,000 in

savings. >> Good for y'all. >> And thank you. Um but it it was not

mostly us. We eloped and so we got a great gift for but >> nice.

[clears throat] >> Yes. So um I would love to be able to

write a check and get those that's the only debt we have. Um like I said, not homeowners yet. We rent, but I would love to write a check and get that debt out of our life. But we're not quite on the same page. Um my husband's not comfortable with that yet because we're not homeowners and it's just feels like a scary thing to do to just send that much money off. Um not knowing what the future might bring because I am a stay-at-home mom. Um so just you know want some advice.

>> Okay. So his big hangup is he wants to

keep a ton of savings and not pay off anything because of

something possibly happening to

something where income's not coming in and he would rather have $122,000

saved than a h 100,000 in no debt.

>> Uh when you put it like that essentially. Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Because that's Yeah. I mean, that's that's what it is when you break down.

Um, >> and he he wants to be a homeowner first before he pays off the debt.

>> Um, I think he's mostly concerned about

like having once we pay off that debt and then once we do, we're looking to buy a house, you know, in the next end of this year when our lease ends. Um, so when we do end up putting that down payment on a home, where does that leave us? I think that's his concern. Like >> that you won't be able to afford the mortgage.

>> Well, no. Where does that leave our emergency fund and where does that leave if he loses his job or like 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yeah. So, it's kind of in my opinion the dog's wagging the wait, what is it? The tail wagging the tail. >> Tail wagging the dog.

Yeah. The dog is always going to be wagging the tail. >> The tail wagging the dog because he's going backwards. He's wanting to be a homeowner, which is one of the largest financial purchases you ever make.

One of the most expensive things you ever do is to own a home.

first before paying off debt and almost

regardless of what's in the emergency fund and that's what's scaring him, right? So, if you flipped it and said, "Okay, we need to get rid of the risk of

the debt, then have the emergency fund and then what's left is what we have for a down payment." So that means if we don't have enough by the end of the year, we may have to lease somewhere for

six months and then we buy a home in this next summer versus at the end of this year when our lease is up, right?

>> Essentially, I would say so. Um I think

because say we put 50,000 down on a home, we pay the 22 or 23 off in loans.

That still leaves us, you know, pretty comfortable, I would say, with at least four to six months of expenses. And >> 100%. Yeah. Well, and that's if you guys do nothing for a year, right? You I mean, he's working, right? >> And you guys are putting more money on save, right? Like I mean, what how much margin do you guys have a month?

>> So, we live pretty comfortably on what he makes now. Um, like I said, I'm a stay at home mom, so we're not saving as much as we'd like. We don't invest because we we're just kind of unfamiliar with all of it, you know, we're so new to all of this and like but we have a money market account that we save about 200 a month and then we have a money market that brings in about 150 a month

350 a month right now 1250.

>> Okay. So the question mark is how much house can we actually afford and is this timeline even reasonable? Because I think what he's really saying is things are already tight and it's only going to get tighter if we pay off your debt. But really what it's doing is you're freeing up a payment and getting a better financial foundation.

And if you can't buy a home when the lease is up, that's okay. This is a fake timeline we've made up that we have to be homeowners when the lease is up. >> And so you guys need to sit down and get some real numbers on this and not just well I think and I'm not sure what's going to happen. We need to go here's what is true today.

>> Okay. So my proposal is that we um and

this is like you know understandable. my proposal, we pay about 320 on the loan a month right now and we also tithe 10%.

So my prop so and that still puts us comfortable. So we're like we're pretty frugal. Um so if we were to free up that

320 that would put us saving more like 600 a month. That would like pretty much double the amount we save.

>> So his fear is that we wouldn't actually save it, you know? So which is understandable, but it would just take the discipline. >> So his fear Yeah. is that you guys aren't disciplining

on the loan. >> Yeah, I think it'd be good. >> Well, I believe we are.

>> I think you guys are too. I think he's he's using a lot of these, well, I'm scared. I'm fear. Well, you have fears, too. >> Scarcity mentality. How did he grow up with money? What was his childhood like?

>> Um, I mean, pretty just middle like, you know, general middle class. Um, and

>> I don't believe that his family of origin spoke about money very often. Um

unless it was a tight season.

[clears throat] >> Yes. Okay. >> Whereas, you know, this is the most money I've ever had in my entire life.

>> Sure. No.

>> Totally. Because >> I grew up my mom was a single mom and so just different families of origin.

>> For sure. Yeah. Do you guys sit down and do a budget every month together?

>> We we do. Um, I track every dollar we

spend. Um, and that's like

>> and then we sit down and we close the month and I kind of I [clears throat] keep the spreadsheet because that's just kind of my thing. I'm good at that. And so we but we sit down and look at it together and I say like, "Okay, this is where we spent >> and groceries and this is what we saved and I know where every dollar goes." >> Yeah. Y'all are y'all are amazing. I mean, well done. Okay. So, what I would what I might suggest is I don't know.

There's something about hitting goals together as a couple that is so unifying. And I'm trying to figure out and think through, you know, what could be something that you guys do together that's going to make you both a little uncomfortable, but it's at least getting you towards what you're both wanting.

So, I'm throwing this out here. I don't even know if this would work. I wonder if you guys sat down and just said, "Hey, what if we paid off half the money right now >> and we just wrote Yeah. We wrote a check

>> 12 grand >> and we just paid half of it off.

Therefore, let's create more margin in our life. So, I would pay it all off.

You have 99 left. Earmark 30 for an emergency fund. That's 70 you have left for the down payment. And if you save over 600 bucks a month, you'll have another 8 grand. So, a year from now, you have 78,000 to put down on a house.

How much house can we afford with that number? [music] That's the kind of tactical homework you guys have to do tonight instead of just a lot of feelings. >> Look at you. I know. And I went right into the [music] feelings. >> I just pay half off and just see how we all feel. >> I'm just a nerd. I'm like [laughter] enough. Let's use logic people. But money is always emotional. >> Good.

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[music]

[music]

[music] Julia is in Denver. Up next, Julia, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Hi. Uh, it's so great to talk to Hello.

Can you hear me? >> Yes. You sound great. [music] We're happy to talk to you.

>> Wonderful. I'm actually a huge fan of your guys' show. I actually try your mocktails on the regular.

>> Oh, fun. Smart money happy hour fan. We love to see it. >> Yes, you guys do talk what everyone else is talking about. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> that's our tagline. >> That's it. That's our tagline. >> Rachel's is very relatable that way.

[laughter] Well, George, I've actually talked to you before when you and Dave were on the show. Um, and I was the one who uh was

asking about my mom's student loan debt and stuff like that. Um, I will say updates from them. I got a job, a full-time job that isn't just VA work, >> which I'm not an Instagram influencer, just to clarify. [laughter] Um, and uh, my husband actually was able

to get a part-time job. Uh, the reason he was able to get that job was because it was a seasonal job, but now we're coming out of season. They're keeping him. Praise the Lord. But it's not

enough. And we're still struggling to

get any other work um, from, you know, just applying. And so we're trying to use uh, what's his name? Ken Helman's strategy, the principle.

>> Yeah. Okay. um by using my company

because they have a position open and my boss said that if we have him apply he'll have a really high chance of getting that position. The problem is he would need a car and we're down to one car right now. >> Okay. >> So being in step two, I'm wondering is

it better to move on or hold off paying

off debt and get a like a beater that'll just work for this job >> because we'll be making more money? Yeah, because how much of a raise would he get?

>> Go ahead. Sorry. >> How much of a raise will he get with the job versus what he's >> So, right now he's only making like it's really low hours. He was getting at most he got 30 hours during seasonal but now he's getting like 15 hours and he paid very little which is really hard for him >> cuz he was a manager and he lost his job because of some other stuff. But, um, so he's having a hard time wanting to ask for more hours knowing how little he is.

I mean, he still is asking for more hours, but they can't really give him much. So, it would raise him by about

$2,000 more a month.

>> Okay. So, he's getting a 24 grand raise.

>> Yeah. >> Amazing. Okay. So, yeah. So, if you guys stopped um the debt snowball, saved up some cash

for him to get a car, and say you p you paused for 90 days and, you know, worked like crazy, did, you know, did whatever you could. >> Yeah. Could you save two grand a month if you really went for it?

>> Yes, we can. Um, we just moved into a

new apartment. So, last month we had to

move into just a better situation for our living. So, we weren't able to get ahead with like debt or anything like that. But that those expenses are no longer worried about. It's just like I I don't have a good vision on how much we have.

I mean, I have a budget and everything and ideally what we should be um making. We're still kind of figuring that out. So, I can't say for sure that we can save about two grand a month. Um but I think it's very doable if we do a little extra Instacart.

>> Okay. I have an ignorant question.

>> Um so, because it's not So, I'm a merchandiser and I go I have 10 different store locations. So, I'm traveling. It's not like an 8 to5 in the same building. You're moving all over the place and he's he would be more of an 8 to5 in the building.

>> No, he would be doing something similar to what I'm doing. >> Oh, so he'd be traveling to different stores as well on his own.

>> Right. Exactly. >> Okay. Well, uh this is a solvable problem. I would pause pause right now and just stack up cash real fast. Now, this is not we're going to take a break for a year from paying off debt. Like Rachel said, this is like 3 months max.

We're going to go really hard. And worst case, if you're not there yet, you need to rent a car for a month, do that.

Borrow a car. Whatever you need to do to get by as he takes on this new job, that's okay. But just please don't take out a car loan cuz you quote had to. I

know you're better than that, Julia. I know, but that's the calls we get.

[laughter] >> He needed a $4,000 truck because he got a new job. >> Yeah. Okay. So, that's the game plan. I How How is it that he's going to get this job?

Um they said that they don't have anyone applying for this position right now. So as soon as we apply they'll get him.

>> Yeah. What would your total household income be at that point?

>> Um so it increase by 2,000 we'd be at 7K

a month. >> The 7K total is what you'd be bringing home a month. >> Mhm. >> Awesome. And then how much debt do you have left?

>> Uh so I did the math and it's actually more than we were expecting. We're in 60K right now. >> Okay. And what makes up the 60K?

>> Okay, so 16 of it, 16,000 of it is his credit card, which I'm getting really nervous about cuz we haven't made any payments on it in a while. >> Yikes. >> Um, and then we have my student loans,

uh, which is about 12K. Um, and those

are under my name. That's not the parent plus loan with my mom. >> Okay. >> Um, and then which you guys advised for me to wait to worry about that. So, I'm not even including that in the >> the parent plus loan.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that right now.

>> Um, and then there is just like a bunch of odd end things. Like our last apartment we ran into just some issues with the landlord. They didn't take our rent when we wanted to pay because we were behind a month and it was a whole thing. And so now we have $8,000 of dollars to go towards an apartment complex. >> You owe them >> which we >> in like back back.

>> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Are you guys done taking on debt?

>> Because we tried. So Huh. Are you guys done taking on debt? Are you still using credit cards or anything like that?

>> No, we haven't used a credit card ever since we got married. This was before I married my husband. >> Julia, are you guys done if he gets this job? What time are you guys home at night?

>> Like hour hour wise.

That's a great question because he could the position that we're looking for he could do later in the day whereas I can work early in the morning and that would help with the baby because we do have a eight-month at a home. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um so it' probably be like we I'd be working in the morning and he'd be working at night.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys would but not hopefully not too long term because hopefully once you're out of this debt you guys can you know factor in maybe daycare or something.

I don't know.

You don't want that's not sustainable for your marriage, for sure. >> But here's the math on this. Can you guys put three grand a month with this new income toward your debt?

>> Minimum payments plus extra. Can you do three grand a month?

>> Like after we get the car and get this position >> once you guys are settled and stable in this new life.

>> Yeah, we should be able to.

>> Okay. Because that means 60K, three grand a month, you're done in 20 months.

And that's if you don't do more than that, >> less than two years. Yeah. >> If you guys go more aggressive, you can get it done in 18 months, 12 months. And so >> that's why I was asking about the hours because if you guys could keep up the Instacarting or something on the side and bring in >> Yeah.

Don't stop. >> You know what I mean? Like that's that that's the gazelle intensity that we talk about maybe step two of you're you guys are just crazy people, right? You're just doing anything and everything to earn income, cut lifestyle.

I mean it is like we are putting everything because every if you think about it every $2 $300 that you can put that's not going out in lifestyle towards this debt that's a you know a couple hours that you're not working you know like I mean it's just that give and take. So it's like just deep deep sacrifice. And again if you do that like George said in less than two years you guys could be out which is just huge.

Uh, my whole adult life. [laughter]

>> Don't you think you deserve better, Julia?

>> I do. >> I think you do, too. So, I think we make a plan tonight. We spit shake and say, "Hey, hubby, we're going to go hard in the paint until this thing is gone." >> We're both working like crazy. It's a a competition of who can work more hours.

At this point, >> we're very competitive, so that works out. And [laughter] we're very ambitious. I mean, he has his own uh

business and it's like hard for him to invest in that with all the debt and everything. And so, and then I have like a ministry and there's all this other stuff going on in our life that we want to do, but >> you have you have a great why. He wants to run this business. You want to be generous and run this ministry. So, all of these things will fuel the journey.

When it gets really hard, when you guys are both exhausted and instead of fighting each other, you go, >> "Good job today. Way to go. Thank you for providing for our family. Thank you for knocking out this debt. We are worth being debtree and you guys will get there in no time. Are you guys using every dollar right now?

>> We are. I just got the subscription in December. >> Good. >> You are on the way. Julia, call us back and we will celebrate with you maybe 20 months from now. Worst case. You got this.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Robert is [music] in Columbia, South Carolina up next. Robert, what's going on?

>> Hey, how are you today? >> We're doing great. How can Rachel and I help?

>> Yeah, so uh I have a lot going on. Um,

first question that I have is where to start with um, everything that I have going on. Um, I've recently in the last

month I own a business. I've had a business now for going on three years.

This will be my third year. Um, first year I did great. Second year I cut back and um, I had too many eggs in a basket and they went with a different contractor and so to speak I'm losing

about 80% of my income. Oh gosh.

>> So, what was it and what is it now?

>> So, um my income was uh 6,000

um or really 4,000

um and uh it's it's dropping down to about uh 2,000.

>> Okay. So, you went from four to two.

>> Yeah. Well, really six to two. Um, but I

was I was putting money back in savings and and using that for the business.

>> Got it. But you were kind of taking from the business. You were taking six for your own personal goals.

>> Uh, yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Are you actively trying to replace that since you know that it's going to be cut? I mean, are you >> Yeah. What's What's the plan for that?

So, um I've been going and meeting with different owners and I actually am looking at taking on uh more contracts than what I had before. I just don't have the contract signed right now.

>> Oh, good. Okay. So, >> in the pipeline, you got some leads here. >> Yes, sir. >> Good, good, good, good. >> But in the meantime, it it sounds like there's other pieces here. Do you have debt?

>> Yes, I do. Um, uh, to be completely

honest, um, I I'm behind on my taxes.

Um, in my personal life, I'm looking at doing a bankruptcy. I have enough money saved up right now to float me by for two months if something does not come through. And then after that, I will basically lose everything that I have built. I have four children and I have a fiance. >> Wow. >> Okay. Um, how much debt do you have?

Um, so after the bankruptcy it will basically uh >> Wait, are you f Wait, have you filed?

Give me Where are we at? When when you say after the bankruptcy, is is that in process? >> I have uh Yeah, it is in process. So, I

have one more final payment before I'll have my court date.

>> Okay. And can I ask why you filed?

So, um I had a few judgments put on on

me um from a past marriage that I had.

>> Okay. >> Um I took all the debt from that and they reached out to me uh and uh put

some judgments on me for some vehicles that we had.

>> Okay. So, you have you're coming out of

that.

Um, and do you have you don't you have no money personally saved for these upcoming months >> other than 2 months worth? That's correct. >> Two months. Okay. >> How much do you owe the IRS?

>> Um, I would say about 26,000.

>> And that is that back taxes or is that hey, I I should have been making these estimated payments. It'll be due in April and I don't have it.

>> Yeah. So that's back taxes and then come April will be for another tax year >> and you don't have that'll be another 26 or so that you'll owe.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So we basically owe you know 50 grand to the IRS. What other debts do you currently have?

>> I have a truck that I'm uh been working

diligently to get paid off. I'm about $900 away from having that paid off.

>> Oh, good. I also have a family vehicle

that I've been working diligently. I'm about $600 from having that paid off.

>> So, $1,500 and you free up both car payments.

>> Yes, sir. >> I would dip into that savings you have and pay those off today.

>> Okay. >> That lowers your expenses measurably.

>> Yeah. How much are each how much is each car payment?

>> Um, so combined they're about 900 bucks.

>> Okay. Yeah. that and then Robert I'm like I don't know I'm just thinking out loud here but if you know you're going to be going down to $2,000 and you know there's contracts in the pipeline but they're not signed and there are no guarantee go get another job can you go work?

>> Yeah. So I'm actually I'm looking at going into drill and making about 10k a month. Um, and the only thing that's holding me up from that is one of the

this is another issue I have. Me and my fiance um disagree on finances quite a bit. Um,

and so this last past Sunday, I started up a FPU um 9week course. Um, so I'm I'm

currently trying to have that conversation with her on cutting back and um canceling out debt to improve our

financial life. >> So when you say you're not aligned, where is she at on all this this financial situation? Does she even know what's going on?

>> Yes. So So she does know what's going on and um she trusts me to provide. I've

always provided. Um, however, you know,

we don't see eye to eye on things such as cutting out Spotify, cutting out all the things that are not necessities to be able to cancel out debt and basically restart.

Um, and we we don't see eye to eye on that. >> Does she work outside the home?

>> No. Um, she currently uh she's a stay-at-home mother with our four children. >> Okay. So, does she understand the reality that, hey, we have $2,000 to cover all of our bills and we can't afford that.

>> So, therefore, we don't have an option but to cut. This isn't like a, hey, let's just really hunker down and get rid of the debt. You guys are in storm mode right now. >> Yeah. How old are the kids?

>> Um, so I have a 9-year-old, um, a

six-year-old, a fouryear-old, and then a

three-year-old. >> Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. In my

head, this is like a little bit on fire, right? I mean, you're coming out of a bankruptcy. >> Yeah. >> You guys have $2,000 with tax that, you

know, you have the IRS that's going to be freaking >> You got to focus on that before anything else. >> Yeah. Um, and so for me, it's all it's all hands on deck. So, I need to be looking at what she can do to bring home money from being a stay-at-home mom. Um, I if I'm

you, I'm looking at three different jobs or the 10 or the drill, you know.

>> Yeah. How how sure is the drilling gig and what do you need to do to actually get the job?

>> It's for sure. I just have to go and do the paperwork in a different state and go for the training classes.

>> How long does that take? >> Um, well, they paid me during training. Um, I could probably have that secured within three weeks. >> Go $10,000 a month. Is is she on board with this? >> I don't care. She has to >> because you're ditching the family for two weeks. Is this going to be a problem? And your business as well.

>> They don't have money. >> Yeah. >> No, I'm just making sure this is a reality. He can just go do this right now. >> I know. >> So, the current situation with it is is

I'll have to be gone for 3 weeks, come back home for two weeks. So, there's that. And then >> um >> like ongoing. >> There's also Yeah, it's ongoing. Every month it would be that way. Um, and then there's also the current talk of should I give up on a business that in our first year we made almost 200,000

um and and did fantastic. Um, however,

we did not financially

um save back from this. You know, it was kind of money that never seen. Listen, if I'm you guys, I'm like, we have to have we have to have some major changes in our lives because we have $50,000 that we're going to owe to the IRS with both, you know, both years. Um, you know, we we're I don't know. All to me, I'm like, do what you have to do for six

months and let's reevaluate in August.

Like, go do the drilling thing >> and put every month. I mean, that that'll clear out the debt.

>> Um, you know, maybe you do it for a year and that's it. I mean, talk to people that are deployed, right? I mean, they're gone from their families for 6 months at a time. Um, so it it is possible.

I'm not saying it's the only option, but it's a very very great option that's right in front of you >> for a short season >> for just a season. It doesn't be forever. And then when you guys actually have your head above water [music] and you actually have somewhat of stability, then we can look to see, okay, what do we want to do with this business? And should we, [music] you know, get it back going?

But if I'm y'all and I'm coming out of bankruptcy and [music] my income's being shot, I'm I'm just looking anywhere to make money at this point to feed four kids.

>> That you don't get to live in my lifestyle. >> You don't make $200,000 anymore. That's what she has to realize. You don't. So, what are you going to do?

[music]

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Springs. What's going on, Matt?

>> Hey. So, uh first first thing I just want to say is y'all are such a blessing to so many people.

>> Thank you. I I I have listened for quite

some time and I'm just thankful for what y'all do. Uh and and now I find myself in a situation where I could use some advice.

>> Thank you, Matt.

>> Yeah. Uh so I guess the brass tax of the

situation is I've got a pretty considerable amount of IRS debt. I own

two businesses and I've just kind of got

myself in a little bit of a hole. Um,

and so the question is

if there's any credibility to uh tax

relief programs and and things of that nature.

>> Well, they're often marketed to people who are desperate and vulnerable, which is never a good sign, >> you know, when they're that usually means they're predatory and they're promising way overpromising and underdeling. So, what they tell you to do is basically, hey, don't pay a dime.

you pay us instead and what's going to happen is tanks your credit which with the IRS not the people you want to not pay and so they then try to settle for

you and save you money which by the way you can do all of this yourself and with the IRS they can already set up a payment plan >> so there's really no use for a tax relief program in this situation >> okay >> they're just paid middlemen between you and the IRS >> right and and the other uh your office

that I contacted was more of like a tax attorney that talks more about the the future plan for the taxes for the business to to avoid this issue in the future, which legit may be beneficial.

Yeah. >> Um but but then his office was saying, you know, we don't recommend these tax relief programs because they're they're overpromising, underdelivering. So, >> perfect. I'm in line with an attorney.

That's a good day for me.

>> Okay. So, uh, I guess I guess the question is in your if you were in this situation, what what steps you might take. Um, >> yeah. How much do you make a year, Matt?

>> Um, it's kind of relative. Uh, probably somewhere around 100 or so.

>> Okay. And do you have anything in savings?

>> Yeah. Uh, I typically try not to dip below 15 or 20 in savings. Uh,

>> so you have 20?

Yeah, about about right there right now.

>> Yeah. >> The but the the issue with my particular business is it's extremely seasonal with construction. So, you know, I kind of hunker down in the winter time and, you know, rice and beans and do just about nothing. So, um but then in the the

busier season, it's easier to tackle some of these things. So, >> what kind of construction?

uh outdoor, you know, fence and deck and

uh a lot of carpentry kind of stuff. So >> cool. Well, the good news is you can

still work during that time and make money and you can definitely pay this money back in a reasonable amount of time. Do you have any other debts that are are holding you back from creating the margin to knock this out quick?

>> Yeah, there's still about 20,000 remaining on a heliloc. Okay. Uh, and I

already know that's a teeth grinding word for you probably, but um that you it's it's one of those situations where sure I could pay that off, but then you know, you have to worry about the the bills right now. So, if I were to pay it off, I would wait until the money's coming in more fluently and Okay. in the busier.

>> So, you got 40 to the IRS, 20 on the HELOC. Anything else?

Uh, that's about it. I've paid off, I don't know, 20,000 something in credit cards. Great. No car loan.

>> Yeah. Well, I would, this changes the debt snowball a little bit because IRS debt gets moved to the front. So, even before the heliloc, I would be tackling this 40. And I would just make it an aggressive goal.

And again, I don't know if it's a payment plan that you contact the IRS with, but I mean, I would try to have this all paid off in less than a year. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so, so I guess other pieces of the equation are I've got to file the last two years of taxes. is I'm behind on that.

10 to 15 after all the expenses and whatnot. >> So let's call it 60.

>> Is that fair? >> Sure. >> So if we call it 60, you know, you owe 60, set up a payment plan with them and maybe it's, hey, you're going to pay a,000 a month or 2,000 a month and then once you get down to that, you know, you got 15 grand left, I would use your savings to just knock it out >> and then you can replenish the savings.

Really, what you do is then attack the HELOC, then replenish the savings.

So I guess the questions then become, you know, I pay a considerable amount of additional principal on my home.

Does it make more sense to factor that into this equation? I'll make the

minimum mortgage payment. Why are you paying extra on the principal of your home right now?

>> Yeah, generally just, you know, you look at the amateurization schedule and all of that and it and it it, you [clears throat] know, over a course of time it just makes sense. Yeah.

>> And it does in the right order, but you want to get this stuff cleaned up. So, if you if you went down to just your mortgage payment, how much does that free up a month?

>> Uh, probably about another thousand or so. >> Oh, great. >> So, how much could you reasonably put towards this IRS debt every month if you got aggressive? >> Well, this is where it gets tricky because, you know, I listen to your show constantly and people are like, well, I make this exact amount every month or every two weeks.

And for me, I have months where it's 15 20,000 and I have months where it's >> 2,000. But you've been doing this a while. So you probably could look at a calendar and semi- guessess like this probably will be good months here, low months here. So yeah, so you may be putting, you know, maybe, you know, 13,400 towards this on a low month, but a good month you could be throwing 3,000 at it, right?

Um, sure.

Uh, so I've been actively attacking it for a couple of years.

Uh but it seems like every dollar that goes into it's just paying off the acrruing interest, you know, you need to get way more aggressive on this, which means all focus is on this IRS debt. No extra on the mortgage. Your budget is bare bones.

You are just covering four walls, food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, anything else is going towards this. And try to make make it to where there's no gap in income. Now, I understand you're going to have some really good months and some rough months, but I don't want you just sitting around going, "Well, there's no work to be done right now." >> Sure. So, I guess in general, you you wouldn't, you know, I mean, I could run the HELOC up more and pay that and it might be less percentage that I'm

paying. >> We are not adding a scent to the HELOC.

We're not going to keep going with this line of credit. We are done with that.

So, just keep it where it is. keep up with the minimum payment and then all of your guns are pointed toward this IRS debt for the time being.

>> Now, do you think it would make sense to sell off additional assets to try to do this or >> what do you have?

>> Well, I've got a considerable number of vehicles and machinery that are mostly associated with the business. Uh I mean, they're for all intents and purposes mine, but the business owns them.

>> Yeah. Would it would it decimate the business income if you sold these off? >> Would you need it though to to run your business? Well, I it's probably like a half and half kind of number. I mean,

you know, skid steers and tractors and things that that are relatively essential. Um, >> but do you have one piece of machinery you're thinking of that you're like, "Okay, I could sell that and be okay." >> Doesn't get a lot of use. Doesn't create a lot of revenue right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What could you get for that?

>> Uh, I mean, probably somewhere between

15 and 20. >> Wow. >> Thousand.

Yeah, >> that period with your savings gets you out of the IRS debt like tomorrow.

>> Yes. [laughter] >> I kind of figured y'all would be on that that boat. >> And you can always buy it used later if you need it, right? With cash.

>> Sure. >> Yeah. And that and again, that's all saying that that's not affecting your business. I don't want you to have to turn >> I don't want you to lose half your income because you sold this thing. >> Right. Right. Right. So, you want to be smart about it. But if it's something that you're really not using or really need and you get 20 grand off of it.

Yeah. >> I'm doing that for sure.

>> I mean, yeah. I'm a huge advocate of not having car loans and and I fix them all myself and whatnot. So that >> that's great. Yeah. Anything you have, Matt, I would I would because I think if you had no IRS debt and no HELOC, how

would you feel?

>> Well, like I could scream >> like amazing. I would scream. I'm debtree. [snorts] Exactly.

Yeah. So I'm like, yeah. Whatever you could do to get to that level of peace and control is what we're after. And then later when the business is doing great and you have all this freed up money because you don't have debt, you're able to save.

And if you need to go buy some equipment, >> cash flow some equipment. I'm changing the Dave quote. Now it's sell so much stuff the skid steer thinks it's next cuz it is my friend. Good luck selling it.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz. The number to call is8825-5225

if you want to join the conversation.

John is in Jacksonville, Florida up next. John, welcome to the show.

>> Oh, how are y'all >> doing? Right. How can we help?

>> Uh, yes. Um, first of all, I'd like to say thank y'all for everything y'all do.

Um, my wife and I are 36 years old, and

by the time we're 40, we are potentially going to be net worth millionaires due to what y'all teach on this show.

>> Oh my god. God, >> that's all the work you've guys done. That's >> just sit here doing jack squat. You did the hard work, man. Proud of you.

>> Well, thank y'all so much. Um it's definitely changed a family's trajectory. >> However, unfortunately, um my mother and

father are not in the same state. My father passed away on 12 January and I am my mother's financial power of attorney >> and they are in or she is in some pretty

bad financial jeopardy. So, I look for y'all's advice. >> Oh, no. I'm sorry about your dad. Would you say it was just this January? Like this month?

>> This month, correct? Oh, I'm so sorry.

>> Um, okay. So, what Yeah. What did he what did he leave your mom with?

>> Um, so

we'll go ahead and set aside the $70,000 of mortgage. Um, but it's a total of $113,526.54

of debt. My mom is 61 years old. She's still currently working, but only nets 37,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> what kind of debt is 113?

>> Yeah. So, the 113 is $50,000 worth of IRS debt.

>> Um, $23,000 is owed to collections.

Um, let's see. We have

um got to get my stuff together here.

>> Yeah, it's about 40,000 more somewhere.

There's credit card debt, >> right? Right. Yeah. So, let's see.

$22,3529

in credit card debt.

>> And that's different than the debt in collections, correct?

>> That is different than the debt that's in collection. >> The debt and collections, what is that? Is that medical debt? Is that credit cards?

>> Uh, well, it was a personal loan um that

he he he dealt with some dementia later in his life. >> Oh. >> That that that personal loan he ended up

forgetting to pay, forgetting to pay, forgetting to pay. It got pass off collections. >> Okay. Got it. >> Um, so >> and how much is Yeah. Any more

>> I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Any more consumer debt?

>> Uh, yes. They have um $14,755.73

in um auto and personal loans. And then

there's another $3,465

in a personal loan as well.

>> Okay. the the um 14,000 is that one car

or two cars?

>> So the 14,000 the auto the auto loan is

$2,634.74.

The other part of that 14,000 is two personal loans. >> Gosh. Okay. What was he using all those personal loans for? What was he doing?

>> Yeah, that's um we don't even know why they were taken out. We really don't.

>> Oh my god. >> Now, were these all in his name or were they jointly held?

>> One? No. So there all three of these are in his name. Um but there's one person loan in my mom's name which is um $3,465.

>> Well, I just want to make sure that we don't go paying debts that she doesn't legally owe if they're only in his name and not jointly held. Now I'm assuming they did their taxes married filing jointly.

>> Yeah, that's a good question. I actually think they did them separate. Um but I can't speak to that confidently. >> Yeah, because the IRS debt would be Yeah, if it would if they filed jointly, then she's going to be responsible.

But if not, she may not be. The estate would pay it, but not her personally. And if the you know, >> so if the estate can't cover it, she may not owe it personally. That's where I want to get clear on this.

And you may need to work with an estate attorney to kind of go through all this mess and figure out what was owed, whose name is on what, what does she legally have to pay.

>> I got you. I'm taking notes now. Cuz if you know 75% of the debt is wiped away,

you know, you send a death certificate and they go, "All right, we can't collect. It wasn't in her name." And that might really save her in this in that regard cuz she can't pay 113 grand.

IRS debt is is definitely going to fall on her I think regardless of whether or not they um file jointly because

um it for whatever reason and she didn't

know that she wasn't doing this since 2014 at some point in time there's something that changed to where she her taxes were not getting withheld.

>> Okay. >> Um so and his for whatever reason were

not getting withheld. We don't know if he found a way to change that without her knowing. >> Um, yeah. So, it since 2014. Yeah. Now,

when she found out that that was an issue, she got it changed, but that wasn't until two years ago >> um that she found out that and he >> if her taxes were not being withheld, then yes, then some of this IRS that might be in her name. But I would that's where George is saying like to get clear on whose name Yes. is on this debt

because that that will make a significant difference and things like collections. Um John, you guys can I mean and on her behalf, you can help with this. You can settle that kind of stuff so quickly. You need the money for it, but they may settle pennies on the dollar, you know, with this $23,000 and it's not been paid.

It's not been paid. They're not expecting to get their money. So, you may be be able to settle for gosh 5,000. Yeah.

in that, but with the credit cards and all the personal loans, contact the banks and know and and figure out whose name is on the debt. That's going to be really important.

>> Yeah, I I've already put all the leg work into whose name's on the debt. The the tax question I definitely need to get answered. >> Okay. So, have you pulled his credit report?

>> I have. >> Okay. So that's going to give you a pretty clear picture of what is owed and then you can check the tax records as well. >> Did he have retirement savings or anything?

>> He had no savings at all.

>> Oh, I I will give you this. So we we did get a sigh relief >> and I I know how Dave preaches against whole life insurance. I guess in November >> he took out two policies for um whole life insurance >> that nobody knew about. But whenever I started going through statements, I found the payments and one of them is 10K, the other one's 20K. Um, and then

we also just found out that he had a

from his retirement, he had a group term

life that is still that my mom's a

beneficiary of for 29.

>> Wow. >> So that there's like 60k sitting here to clean this up, >> right? We're working on trying to get my mom through the leg work of getting that stuff. Um but you know that's going to

take some time. Right now they got a lot of payments coming out monthly.

>> Yeah. >> And you know she gets paid on a weekly basis. >> Yeah. >> Can she make more? I don't know what she does but at at 61 she she might still have you know another 15 years of work

to go. And so if she can go make 50 or 60 this changes her life dramatically.

um she currently works for the city. Um

and she's trying to work on that retirement. Now, she might be able to pick up a side gig because there is a retirement involved in her currently her current job. Um but she may be able to look into picking up a side gig. I'm not so certain that she'd be willing to leave.

>> Yeah, it would be better for her to [music] work hard and work uncomfortable hours honestly to get some of this cleaned up while she's young. So that way in four, five, [music] 6 years, she can possibly scale back while still saving for retirement and hopefully maybe still have enough there.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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>> [music]

[music] >> The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. You don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. Y Refi [music] helps borrowers take back control with affordable refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at yrefi.com/rramsey.

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>> Today's question comes from Lucy in Oregon. She said, "I'm concerned about being a target of deed fraud if we pay

off our mortgage. If we keep our current mortgage, the bank would have to notify us if someone tried to take out a second mortgage to steal our equity. We're both in our 70s. I am retired and my husband plans to retire soon. The balance on the mortgage is $48,000 and we have the funds to take out of our 401k to pay it off. What should we do?

>> Wow.

Okay. Well, I mean, deed fraud, it does exist, but I'm not going to be so paranoid that I keep my mortgage around for us to do it, >> right? Because you can always, you know,

if, god forbid, that happens. It's not super common. Uh, more when you're like, you know, buying homes, making sure the deed's, you know, good. And I don't know, there's something. >> We bought a home recently. And we got owner title insurance which protects you against that. And so if you're worried about it, I would look into one of those policies. >> Yeah. To do that. >> And you can sign up with your county and get deed alerts as well.

>> Um so that's also one way to protect >> and you can also, you know, if it did happen, god forbid, you're not going to be on the line for it because it's fraud. And so you can go through the bank and, you know, maybe some, I don't know, lawsuit stuff, but at the end of the day, you're not going to have to owe it because it's fraud at that point.

>> Yeah. So, I wouldn't I wouldn't be so worried that I avoid paying my house off. That's wild. Um, you're in your 70s. There is a much more risk with this

mortgage hanging around than there is that you guys experienced deed fraud. Y >> So, I wouldn't worry about that. I would just pay it off and do your due diligence to stay protected. You know, freeze your credit, check the records with your county regularly, get the owner title insurance if you can, all of that good stuff. But, it's a good question and it's a valid concern. So, thank you for that. Allan is in Colorado up next. What's going on, Alan?

>> Thank you for taking my call. I um have a question about a 529 account uh that

my wife and I have for our son. When he is finished with college, which is just a couple years down the road, there'll be approximately 120,000 left in the 529

account. >> Oh, wow. Way to go. >> I haven't Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty strong. Um, I have an opinion on what to

do with it, but I was just curious to get yall's take. >> How old is the 529? When did you open it?

>> Oh, boy. Um, our son is 20, so let's say

20 years ago. >> Oh, great. I was going to say there's the with the new secure 2.0 act, you can roll over up to 35 grand if it's been

open for 15 years. You know, you can do that periodically. You can't do all 35 at once, but up to the Roth IRA limit, you can start funding that. So, that's one option. >> Yeah. Do you have Do you have other kids, Alan?

>> Uh, no, we don't. Just >> We don't. Okay. It's just this. Yeah.

Well, if you do that, you know, that's 35 out. So, you got about what 85 or so, 95 >> left. Um, >> you said you had a plan already. I'm curious as to what you wanted to do.

>> So, we My thought is is keep it. Keep

the 529. It's we're we're the guardian of it. Put it in his name. He's an adult now. But don't let him touch it. Just have it be there. So it's generational.

You know, when his kids are ready to go to college, that's going to be a pretty large sum. When his kids' kids get ready to go to college, it'll be astronomical.

>> Um it's something that you can really just just leave.

>> That's true. A lot of people don't think about that. It becomes like an endowment basically for your own family, generational wealth that no one ever goes into debt for education. And that's personally what I'm doing. A lot of people go, "Well, I don't want to overfund it because what if they don't go to college?" And I go, if I overfund it, they're going to love old old great great grandpa George for setting up this 529 many moons ago.

>> And can I do some math for you? Your kid is 20, right?

>> He's 20. >> So let's say he has a kid at what? 25.

Is that fair?

>> Um, it's optimistic, but sure. We'll see. >> Should we go 30? Is that more realistic?

>> That's Yeah, >> go plus 18 years. That kid then grows up. >> Yes. So your son will be 48 when your grandson granddaughter goes to college.

Theoretically, how much would be in the account? >> From 20 to 48, if you just left, let's say, 90 grand in there, right?

>> Didn't do anything. >> You never contribute another dime, you'd have $1.4 million when he's 48. I hope

that's enough to cover college at that point.

And and something too I was thinking is even if his kids don't want to go or do

go and there's extra at 65, correct me if I'm wrong, he can start using that for his own retirement with with no penalties. >> Yeah, there's a lot of stipulations with the 529 that and even if he used it in

before then, you know, he'd pay the 10% penalty, but other than that, it's not like wasted money thrown down the toilet. So, I think you're being very wise with this. And I love the idea of creating generational wealth. And a lot of people don't realize the definition of beneficiary family is pretty loose. And so, siblings, nieces, nephews, future kids, yourself, your spouse, a grandchild.

There's so many options here that you could bless someone with in your family.

>> Agreed. That's right. >> So, let's say you got a brother and they're like, "Hey, they didn't prepare, but the kid doesn't deserve to go into crippling debt just because of that. I'd love to transfer this to them." You can change at that point. Yeah.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of ways you can go with it. >> Yes, for sure. Well done, Alan. That's usually not It's usually the opposite problem that we uh talk to people about.

So, >> it's like a parent plus loan. This is the exact opposite. So, I'm curious, how much money did it cost for your kid to go through school?

>> So, first off, something else, too. We we owe it to Dave Ramsey from like 2005.

You all have been a blessing to both my wife and I. Um so much so we we actually taught many many FPU classes.

>> Thank you. >> So yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome.

So th this 529 account, we actually

showed him how compounding interest works. We stopped investing uh in the

529 when he was a freshman in college at

150. That's about where it was at. He's

gone through three years of school and

it's at 159.

>> Wow. >> It's crazy. >> So, you're telling me that it was growing faster than you were withdrawing?

>> That's what I'm telling you. >> That's incredible. >> That's amazing. >> And it sounds like he went to a reasonably priced school and maybe even got some other scholarships.

>> A few scholarships. He wasn't, you know, he wasn't Albert Einstein, but he did okay. And uh yeah, it was it was a state school, so 20 22 23,000.

>> Totally. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah, >> that's the dream. Allan, well done. Well done. We just just applaud you. I mean, honestly, that is >> if you're in the family tree of Allen, you should be thankful right now. Pretty awesome. Thank you for the call. That's that's a cool kind of case study in what actually happens when you do it right.

>> Yes. >> And so I always recommend get started early on that 529. Even if it's a 100 bucks, 200 bucks, 300, 400, 500. Now

you're talking six figures in there by the time they're 18. >> For sure. And the college conversation I feel like has been around a little bit changing, right? That college is changing. We don't know what it's going to look like. >> Are we all going to be YouTubers and AI is going to do all the work [laughter] for us? >> Yeah, that's right. Like we don't know.

But just remember, it's not stuck in there. To your point, it's not like you're, you know, it's an insane amount.

If you were to pull it out, just say like, god forbid, you're like, listen, we don't we don't need this at all, but we need the cash, so we're going to take the penalty. Okay. Okay. So then you do that, right? And you pay some of the penalty, but then you have your cash.

It's not like you lose it completely. So >> absolutely. And people ask, well, what if I want to invest for my kid for something else other than school? I say, great.

Do the 529. Don't trade those dollars for investing over here. If you want to invest on top of that, you can just open a brokerage account in your name, a non-retirement account, and put money in there. I'm not a fan of putting the accounts in your kids' names because they legally then have access with the, you know, the UGMA, UTMA.

At 18, this kid might have 120 grand that's legally theirs. >> That's frightening.

cannot be trusted with a $120,000 pile of money. Most adults can't be trusted with that. >> I was going to say, yeah. >> And so, I like the idea of me being able to control how much to give to that child for a, you know, a wedding or a down payment or a car, whatever it is to help them get a leg up.

>> Yeah. delayed gratification for a uh 45year-old, 50-year-old, it's probably a little bit more embedded than a 18-year-old. So, >> they need to their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully fully there. So, that's personally what I'm doing for my kids.

I got the 529s for each of them and I've got the brokerage accounts. So, they'll be very thankful one day when homes are $4 million. >> That's right. >> And your grandkids.

>> That's so weird to think about. But I think Grandpa George, I'm going to settle into that. >> I love it. I'm going to be cranky. You're going to be like George Banks on uh like Steve Martin on Follow the Bride. >> Oh, that's a good one. I thought you were going George Bailey. A lot of good Georgees up there in movies.

>> Oh, it's a Wonderful Life. That's a good one, too.

[music]

[music]

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All right, we've got Lonnie up next in Dayton, Ohio. Lonnie, you with us?

>> Yes. How you doing? >> Great. I see on my screen here that you were a baby steps millionaire.

>> Is that true? >> That's correct. >> That is fantastic. Congratulations.

Every now and then, we like to highlight a real person who followed the plan, follows these principles, and has won with money doing it with a bunch of zeros on the end. And you are that person today. So, congratulations.

>> Thank you. So tell us your age.

>> I am 54.

>> And what is your net worth?

>> Uh 1.86 million.

>> Fantastic. And break the mix down for us. Uh, I have about a I have a million in

mutual funds that are scattered through my deferred compensation, a Roth IRA,

um, a small annuity, and a few hundred,000 in a uh, investment through my uh, bank.

>> Cool. What else? And uh I have 400,000

in my pension which is a PERS and that's

the account value. If I were to quit they would give me that amount or if I stick it through a couple more years I I would get the uh pension.

>> Awesome. And and I have uh 500,000 in

real estate.

>> Fantastic. Is that your primary home?

>> I have uh I have two homes. I have a my

primary home which is just a modest uh couple hundred,000 home and then I have a condo in Florida which is another couple hundred thousand too. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. And they're paid off.

>> Yes. >> Fantastic. >> Well done. Lonnie, what do you do for a living? >> Uh I'm a manager for a municipality

drinking water facility.

>> Okay, >> cool. So kind of public works utilities.

>> Yes. I've been there 30 years.

>> Fantastic. Okay. And what was your worst year of income in this field and best year of income?

>> Um, I started out um $11.25

an hour in 1996 and I thought it was great pay. >> That's still pretty decent, honestly.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] And these last few years, we've been so short-handed.

Uh, I've been doing a lot of overtime.

So, it's just these past couple years have just been tremendous.

>> Six figures.

Yeah. Easy. 150,000 a year. Close.

>> Awesome. Great job. Okay. Did you inherit any of this money?

>> No, I I did not. But I I would like to say that my f my dad, he did give me

close to 10,000 when I was a a young kid, a minor.

And I uh since I I would get these

statements from that money and I would see that grow and that just fascinated me that this money would grow like that.

And uh being a minor of course I couldn't touch it but I could you know I still felt like it was mine. >> Yeah. >> So what once I became an adult I just it

just made me want to save more.

>> That's awesome. So did your dad teach you these financial principles?

Yeah, he he did. He was uh he's he's uh

very, if I could say, tight with his money and uh and you know, and I can

understand why. So that he taught me that. >> Yeah, that's awesome. Did you uh get a four-year degree?

>> I have an associates in mathematics and

uh yeah, I have an associates degree.

>> Awesome. >> Fantastic. >> Yeah, >> man. You've really been crushing it. Are you single?

Uh yeah, single, no kids. That does that did help. So it >> just helps speed things up. Less expenses, less people in the way as you are building wealth. >> That's good. What kind of car do you drive, Lonnie?

>> Um I have a couple vehicles. Um

uh you know, the just the average uh truck and a car. I've I've never owned a new car.

>> What's the year on those?

>> My truck is a 2012. Pretty low miles.

>> Is it a Toyota?

>> It is a It is a GMC.

>> GMC. Okay.

>> We get a lot of Hondas and Toyotas on these calls, so I was curious. >> Well, those are those are good cars.

Yeah. >> What else you got?

>> Uh, I have a Ford Crown Victoria. It's an old cop car that that I was able to buy and it's a heavy duty car. So, >> fantastic, man. So, what do you do with with all the extra margin now at 54? I mean, you could retire if you wanted to, but it sounds like you love what you do.

>> Uh, you know, that's that's a topic I wanted to talk about someday. You know, later on as I have this pension and I and I if I can if I can wait two more

years, I'm I'll have my 32 years in.

But, you know, just thinking about that, I just God, I don't know if I can do it.

You know, could I could I retire in just a year? Is it worth waiting for that pension? What happens in two years with the pension? You get a big monthly payment.

>> Yeah, in two years I I'll have once you get your 32 years, you qualify for your monthly pension, >> which is how much? >> But you uh $8,200 a month.

>> Nice. >> That's a sweet payday.

>> Yeah. At 54. I'm waiting.

>> You're still a young buck at 56, my friend.

>> And then [clears throat] you don't even have to touch your investments ever again. It'll just become like generational wealth.

>> Yeah. Right. or you don't really have a lot of >> people to leave some. But also, Lonnie,

>> go have some fun. >> Go do something crazy.

>> What is the thing that you still want to do that you're like, uh, I want to do this thing. This is the big splurge for me. >> Yeah. What's like the big thing?

>> I I just I I want to travel. I I love

traveling. >> Yes. >> What's the next trip that you're excited about that you want to book?

>> Uh, looking for I'd love to go to Norway. Um, just I I I been to Europe a few times.

I've been to Australia. It's just I just >> I love the idea of new places.

>> That's fantastic.

>> Love it. >> Man, you're an inspiration, Lonnie.

>> A lot of people want to be you when they grow up. And you've done a good job. You can you can tell these principles start early. You can make up for lost time if you're starting late at 40 or 50.

But man, you've been working hard for 32 years, living on less than you make, putting money into the investment accounts day in day out. >> Yeah. And his, you know, his best year, he was saying, was recently at $150,000, which is a lot, right? But also, it's not like he's making >> $500,000.

>> You don't have to make half a million dollars to do this, right? But it is that consistency over time that we see day in and day out with these um net worth, you know, baby baby subs millionaires.

>> It's encouraging. And that really is is these are the principles, guys. Here's the recipe. If you're like, "Well, how am I going to become a millionaire or a multi-millionaire, which, you know, he's on his way to?" Here's the principle.

Live on less than you make. Invest the difference consistently and then just wait and compound growth will eventually take over. And what you realize is you put $100,000 in over time, but now it's grown to a million dollar. So $900,000

might just be the compound growth.

>> Yep. >> Because your $10 made a dollar, so now you have $11. Well, that made another,

you know, one $110. And so, it keeps spiraling and adding up over time. And it's hard because you don't see it at first. At first, you're like, "This isn't even doing anything. I'd rather enjoy this money." But if you just wait and hang on and you can type some numbers into our investment calculator on our website, it will blow your mind.

And if you got kids, I mean, he said, "I got this at 10 years old." >> Yes. >> And he didn't even have the internet back then to pop in an investment calculator >> to see what that would He had to do like math on paper. >> But that's a what a testament to his dad though. His dad brought him in and showed him how and it worked.

So to to Lonnie's credit like he it stuck for him. >> But there's something about, you know, exposing your kids to this stuff to be like, "Hey, this is what can happen, right? You're giving them that knowledge and that's a gift." Like what Lonnie's dad did. I'm like, "Yes, >> that's huge." I love that we have our Ramsay education foundations and personal finance curriculum in high schools all across the country and we show them the com.

That's one of their favorite edition. So, yes, you can buy it for your kids at home. >> So, ramsyeducation.com, if you're like, "Hey, I want my kids to get this earlier than I did." Or maybe you still need to learn. That's okay.

Just lead and say, "Hey, I want to learn along with you." And that compound growth lesson will blow their mind.

I'm good to I got enough toys. Mom, can you teach me how to like save this money, invest it?" That's a cool lesson.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

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Our [music]

scripture of the day, Psalm 94:19.

When anxiety was great within me, [music] your consolation brought me joy.

Jim Collins said, "Greatness is not a function of circumstance. Greatness, it turns out, is largely a matter of conscious choice and discipline. I like

it. Paul is up next in Phoenix, Arizona.

What's going on, Paul?

>> Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

Um, I'm probably overthinking this. I know you guys I listen to you pretty religiously and um, you say pay off your house as soon as possible.

Um, we owe maybe 180 on our house. Um,

it's worth in the mid 400s and we have the cash to do that. But my only

concern, not a concern, is we refinanced in 2020 when the rates were 3%.

Does it make sense at this point still to pay that off or use that money

elsewhere? Um, we have we have IRA,

401ks, owner KS, stuff like that. Um,

going and I didn't know if I should put be putting more money in that or just pay the house off. >> Well, where are you guys at in the baby steps? Do you have any consumer debt,

>> credit cards? Um, I have a work truck payment. Um, I do home remodeling. Uh,

general contractor. >> How much do you owe on the truck?

>> Like 40. >> Okay. And how much do you owe on credit cards? None.

>> Oh. Oh, no credit cards. I'm sorry.

>> What else? >> Um, minimal scooter loans. I I don't know. It's like Oh, I shouldn't say minimal. 35,000 maybe.

>> Okay. And how much do you have in savings?

>> Um, I want to say 350 350,000.

>> Why are you Why don't you pay pay off everything? >> You could pay off all of your debt and your mortgage, like your consumer debt plus mortgage, and still have money left over.

Well, I'm looking at possibly buying a lot or two and building a house. Like I said, I'm a general contractor. And >> building a new house?

>> Yes. >> And still keeping the old one?

>> Well, yeah, it would it would be for um

selling uh buying a lot. We can build

the house roughly for 200,000 with the

lot. Maybe 220 and sell it for 320 330.

>> Okay. Well, here's also not to live in.

>> You're just It's like a speck home that you just want to sell because you can do this stuff. Okay. Well, here's where that would fall in the baby steps. And this is the plan we teach.

It's the one Rachel and I follow. And here it is. You pay off all consumer debt. Then you get a fully funded emergency fund.

Then you're investing 15% of your income into retirement, putting a little away for college. Anything else can go towards mortgage principle. And so if you followed that through, which you can do in one fell swoop, which is amazing, you would pay off consumer debt.

>> Um, roughly, yes.

>> 40. Okay. And you said you had 350, right? In savings. >> Yes. >> So, you pay off the 75 in consumer debt.

Let's leave another, I don't know, 40 for your emergency fund. Is that fair?

>> I I would think so. Yes. >> Okay. And then we're going to subtract your mortgage. Um, that had that Yeah.

180. So, that leaves you with a cool 55 grand left over to then start. That's kind of your your new fund to start on this house project. So, what's the lot going to cost?

>> The lots are 30.

>> Okay, roughly. >> So, you could buy the lot for now after doing all of this. And by the way, think about how much you have freed up. What is your truck payment?

>> Um, 800.

>> And what's your student loan payment?

>> I want to say 300, 325.

>> And what's your mortgage payment?

>> Um, I pay more than the minimum. I don't remember the minimum, but I pay like 1,600 a month. >> And that's with extra. Yes.

>> So, should we call it 1,200? You think you're putting a few hundred extra?

>> I think it's in the 12s. Yes.

>> Okay. So, you would free up $2,300 a month, which means you could save 28 grand in one year just by freeing up the payments. That's by doing nothing else.

That's without your extra.

>> Okay. >> Which means you could probably cash flow this build

>> after I pay everything off.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And it reduces your risk.

Think about that. Now you're not freaking out cuz you don't have a mortgage payment. You don't have any consumer debt. And you can cash flow this whole project. And then you're less worried and less desperate as you go through with this.

>> Okay. >> That puts you in baby step seven. So then the world is your oyster. You can invest more than 15%. You can purchase real estate in cash. And that's exactly what you're going to be doing, right? You're not taking out any debt to do this lot or build.

>> Um I wasn't planning on it with the cash I have currently. Plus, one of my 401ks is actually a money market, which I have like 130,000 in it. So, >> you're telling me you didn't invest the money?

>> Um, >> was it ever invested?

>> Well, some of it, like I said, some are in Roth IRA, Roth and traditional IAS

and and a couple owner one owner K.

>> So, that's all that's all through this market. >> Yeah, but if your 401k, if the money's in a money market account, that's not invested. So, >> well, it's a separate amount that that's

>> Okay. So, you you do have a 401k that has investments, >> correct? >> Okay. And then you just have a separate money market. >> I wouldn't touch any of those. I think you can cash flow this. You It sounds like you have a great income, too. What do you make a year?

>> Um, most years in the mid low to mid 200s.

>> Fantastic. >> It's great. And so worst case, this this lot and build might be delayed a tiny bit, but man, the piece it's going to give you and the the d-risking you're about to do by paying everything off, it's going to feel so good. And I have no doubt that you're going to be able to stack up that savings account right back to where it was.

>> And I know it's such a weird way of looking at real estate because people, you know, they don't have the cash, Paul, like you do, right, to be able to go in and and do something. But the beautiful thing when you do it all with cash and you know this being in real estate I'm like you know even if the world you know goes up and a pandemic again or whatever and everyone kind of freaks out and I don't know there there's just something about saying okay I don't owe a bank this money on this real estate and if we have to sit on it for a little bit we're in no rush we don't owe anyone anything on it so we can actually we're not urgent to get rid of it because there's a payment and we're all stressed about it and you would actually possibly lose money in that way.

we're gonna just have the ability to have time on our side and all the control and all the power and then when it does sell and I'm praying it does and you make a hundred grand that's an extra hundred grand just to you guys right there's nothing to to pay back so there's something so nice about and I know you said originally you were going to do that anyways um but I would encourage you to because this plan the baby steps it does cause a little bit more patience because you are going to have to save up to do this where you think like okay but I could just do it today because I have the money But doing it in this order, it's a little bit slower, but it has way more control and way more peace.

>> Okay. All right. >> So, the big question everyone wants to know, are you about to go pay off your consumer debts today?

>> We are going to plan it. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> That's a win, man. I'm so proud of you, Paul. Dude, you're a stud.

That's incredible. >> Well done. >> Cuz if you have the savings muscle to save up 350 grand, that tells me you're going to build massive wealth. And so this debt is just a little, you know, it's an ankle biter at this point for him.

>> That's right. [clears throat] That's right. Just get rid of it. That truck drives different when it doesn't have a payment attached.

And you can never be underwater on a paid for truck. That's the beautiful thing. >> Yes. Not having that payment.

>> That is a controversial Ramsay principle is paying cash for investment real estate. It usually shuts. It's like we're dream killers. >> I know.

>> Like Rachel, can I get a property? I want to be an investor and I want to have an Airbnb. And we're like, do you have money? You >> do that?

>> I bought a course from Jared and he's so

>> never trusted Jiren with a course. It's so true. But again, our plan is not about well, what is the fastest way to get a bunch of money quick, you have to factor in risk. You have to factor in your own mental and emotional health when you have that payment you have to make every month and it has to work out and you have to get it booked on the Airbnb and you have to have a tenant.

You have to have a buyer for that spectrum >> or it's coming out of your pocket and then the whole thing it's just like >> and then there's a job loss or a spouse wants to stay at home or there's a health issue. >> Life happens. >> That's the thing when everything's going perfectly. Sure on paper you might be able to make it work but right >> we plan for the things that are unplanned. >> Yes. Because if or when life happens and

all your plans go up in smoke then that's where that's where the stress in life comes, right? And so if we can be avoiding that for Yeah. Maybe not making the risky big moves, but over time, just like um Lonnie, we talked to, you know, our baby steps a millionaire. Over time, it works.

That's the thing. This is slow and low. Yes, it is. >> You got to be a crockpot in a world full of microwaves.

And that is so difficult cuz our world is moving so fast. And if you just go on social media, you're like, I'm behind. It's too late. I need to do 17 things.

Why don't I own 10 Airbnbs by the time I'm 30? I'm a total failure. That's how it feels if you just start scrolling the internet. And so you've [music] got to unplug, get the blinders on, going, I'm going to build wealth with peace [music] instead of risk.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 64. Financial Stability Is Crucial When Life Feels Uncertain | February 12, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is88255225.LE88255225.

You ready to go? >> Let's do this. Ken, >> she's ready, folks. Joe starts us off in Newark, New Jersey. Joe, how can we help today?

>> Hi, sir. Uh, got a small distribution business plus uh honey packing facility.

We recently had a fire. I lost all my merchandise and goods. I owe SBA and

credit card bills. 70,000 on the card

and SBA about 60,000. I don't want to

file bankruptcy, but I want to know what is the best way to move forward.

>> So, you you've lost everything in a

fire. Is that what you said?

>> Yeah, there was a fire in the warehouse.

Um burned all my merchant Yeah. burned

all my merchandise and my machinery.

>> Any um will insurance pick up some of that? >> Uh unfortunately, I did not have insurance. Oh no.

Okay. >> Wow. >> How long ago did this happen, Joe?

>> This happened on January 1st. This this January. >> So, how have you been have you been running the business at all for the last

um 50 days or has everything been on

pause?

>> Everything been on pause. Um just had a

little saving on a side that I am using to stay alive.

>> Oh my gosh. So, you literally have no business to run. You can't just start up from scratch again. True or false?

>> I can't start from scratch again.

>> Okay. What would What would What would you need to start from scratch?

>> Um, merchandise.

>> What were you selling?

>> I was selling a lot of stuff. I was selling teas, oil, cooking oil, essential oils, salt, salt.

>> Okay. So, do you have enough cash to be able to buy some products, some supplies, so that you have something to sell?

>> Yes, I have a little cash.

>> Okay. So, >> my big >> What's your question for us?

>> I am concerned about my SBA loan and my

credit card that I have racked up 70,000. Um, I don't want to file bankruptcy. I want to know how what is the way to go with these guys and how do I explain them so this way at least they give me some time to >> get back in there. >> Yeah.

You don't have anything to worry about on the credit card because they they you just call them up and you tell them what's going on and and the fact of the matter is if you were to file for bankruptcy, they're not going to get much, right? And so we talk all the time about people have to settle with credit card companies. That is the least of your worries. The credit card debt is down the road.

We're gonna have to get you back up and operational.

stretched, I guess, between two key things, Rachel. One, uh, taking care of your needs right now because you have no income, and two, buying some inventory

that we can turn around, which helps us get paid. >> Yeah. So, on Yeah. On the income side, Joe, that's what Ken's talking about, which is what you're going to have to start doing and or getting another job where you can be making an income ASAP, right?

That you may not have the the leeway like this is to be working. But then the debt side of it, yeah, with the credit cards, especially if you are late and it goes into default, it'll go into collections >> and and in this case, I'm like, you know, some people want to do that way, Joe, and they have the money to pay it, they just don't want to pay it, so they take that easy way out. You don't have money to pay it. So you legitimately probably if you stop paying them like they will go to collections and you're going to have to tell them like yeah I don't have money and then that's where the settlement can come in that if you save some money and and a lot a lot of the times I mean it's it's a nickel on the dollar pennies on the dollar that they'll settle for.

So there's a good chance that this 70,000 if you get some money saved you may be able >> to settle some of this for 10 15,000 right?

is the SBA and who's it with? What is

it? Bank or credit union? Local bank, big bank. >> Well, I applied uh SBA through Chase.

>> Okay. Um

yeah, I mean, you could go down the same route and talk to them. I think that's a little bit of a harder game to play than the >> Although, here's the deal. There is a shot at the humanness of your situation.

>> And by the way, they're going to be very suspicious. But to the extent that you can show them you're not making this up.

This isn't some fraud end around your

world got rocked and you hope you can get a real human on the phone and you just tell them what's going on and to the best of your ability say here's what the next three months looks like for me.

I've got just enough excuse me I don't know what's going on with my voice all of a sudden. Uh but I I would be casting vision >> now. They may not care but Rachel I think it's important to at least go here's where I'm at. I don't want to file bankruptcy. Yes. >> Cuz they know what happens if you file for bankruptcy. >> They don't get anything. Yeah. That's right. That's right. >> So, I do think there is a humanness to this. And I think again, I'm such a

take the bull by the horns kind of guy.

And I my advice is always going to come down to it may not matter, but I certainly would cast vision with them for three. Here's what's going to happen the next three months. In six months, I think I'm going to be able to start making payments again. I would do this with the credit card company as well because you have an extraordinary circumstance and if you got a good track record, your payments were always on time, you make a case for why they should not harass you.

>> Got you. >> You have nothing to lose with that approach and everything to gain.

>> That's right. And do not by any means, Joe, give them access to your checking account or any accounts. Okay. So, this is keeping them at an arms length, if you will, but seeing if they'll negotiate at any point.

Um, and usually with that that settlement, you you usually have to have the cash on hand to say, "Hey, here's $5,000. Will you settle, you know, 30,000 of it or whatever, whatever the case may be." So, um, so you kind of have a couple of lanes you're going to have to be thinking about. One, restarting the business, which is what you were saying at the beginning of the call, Ken. Also, just having money to pay your bills as we sit today.

And you know, if you have a family and you're supporting people, like figuring out some income, which means you may be doing a job that is different than what you were doing for a period of time, which is fine. We're just bringing in an income.

credit card companies, and Chase, um, about the debt just to see if there's, um, you know, what that looks like. And again, it may take a few months of you not paying for it to kind of get to that point. Um, but I'm with I'm with Ken. as proactive as you can be in these situations, the better off you're going to be versus just going and filing bankruptcy or keeping this around forever and ever and hoping like, you know, you can do some negotiations.

>> And I think it's really important. Okay, bigger audience now. So, we're not picking on Joe. We feel bad for Joe. But what can we learn from Joe? There's two really key lessons for small business owners, soloreneurs. Key that you catch this. Number one, when you need to insure something, don't put it off.

Insure it. If you have something that is insurable, I'm not talking some scam.

I'm talking like >> you've got a warehouse and you have product, you need to insure yourself

because these kind of things happen and it can rock your world and poor Joe's dealing with it. Second lesson, and we teach this in Entree Leadership, which is our business division here at Ramsey Solutions, >> retained earnings in your business. I don't care what you're selling. Always make sure in those early days that you adopt this principle and you stay with it. That when you make any profit that there is a percentage of that that goes to a good old-fashioned savings account.

We call it retained earnings, but it's just a savings account. >> And you should have an emergency fund for your business just like we teach.

That's right. For your personal life and I think he's done that to some degree. Thankfully, he has some cash. Oh, yeah.

No debt, of course. >> And you know that too, right? So the idea of what you do in your personal life to be wise with money, stay debtree, have savings that applies to you business owners. You don't get a pass on common sense. And so move at the

speed of cash with your businesses. It creates zero risk and a lot of peace.

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All

right, Susan is up next in Las Vegas.

Susan, how can we help you today?

>> Hi. Yes. Um, I have been married for six

years um to my husband. when we got

married, um he wanted me to sign a a

last minute prenup um day before we were going to go get married. Um nothing was written up, but I so I didn't agree to sign anything because he wanted me to just sign a blank piece of paper and and

have him and his attorney was going to write up whatever he told him to. And I

said, "Well, that's we've never even discussed finances in our year of dating, so I'm not comfortable doing that." Good for you. >> Good for you. I've never even heard of such a crazy request.

>> Uh well, yeah. So, the day before we were leaving to go out of state to go get married, he he said, "Well, I want you to come down to the attorneys and blah blah blah." Anyway, I just said, "Well, he's" And then he said, "Well, don't you trust me?" And I said, "This is ridiculous." I said, "We've never even talked about >> about finances." And when we were dating, he was throwing money around like he had all this money, but I didn't know what he had or didn't have.

>> Sure. Anyway, so anyway, fast forward. I

didn't sign it. I'm like, I'm not signing a blank piece of paper. That's ridiculous.

And so anyway, so fast forward 6 years.

Finances, finances have always been kept a secret. He gives me a small allowance.

He puts in a joint checking account to

cover, you know, whatever small things on the side. He pays the main bills. Um, you know, I pay the groceries and other small things. But anyway, so now he fast

forward, he wants a divorce because I've finally put my foot down and said, "I'm not going to live in secret anymore. You either become transparent because as far

as I can tell from how he's acting, um, he's put his

one business, I think it's like going in

the hole cuz he's an accountant >> and he went from having a dozen employees to having two." And anyway, I think he's just lost a lot of money. So, he started another driving business on the side and he started that a year and a half ago and he went into a ton of debt for that.

Um, >> so Susan, this is really bad and I am so sorry you're going through this. What specifically would you like us to weigh in on today? >> Well, I'm just wondering with with all this debt, I'm like, what am I responsible for? And and is he really in

debt or is he not in I mean I don't really know >> what's what's his reasoning when you when you push him to the point that he said I'm going to divorce you.

>> When you push him on I want transparency. I want to see everything.

What's his response? Is it it's none of your business? Is it >> Yes. Like >> Yes. He just I just said I need to know what's going on.

>> Like where where are we and how can I help and what's going on? And he just says I'm not telling you. It's none of your business. >> Yeah. This is an overlord, not a husband. He's acting like some, you know, crazy maniacal >> overlord. Uh, I think, let's answer your question as technically as we can, Rachel. If your name's not on it.

>> Yeah. The debt. You're not going to be responsible. >> Then you're not responsible for it. So, but that doesn't really help you with your problem is that you don't know what he's done. You don't know what he's put in your name. Do you guys have a mortgage?

>> We We have a mortgage. So, right after we got married, he had the house appraised. Um, >> are you on the mortgage?

>> No. >> Your name's not on the mortgage?

>> Only his is. >> No. >> So, he bought the home um about a year

before we got >> Great about a year and a half. Great news for you. >> Great news for you. >> So, then we got married and then a couple months later he he decides doesn't even tell me that he's talking to the bank about refinancing.

So, the morning of I said, "Where are you going?" He goes, "I'm going down to the bank. I'm refinancing the house." And I said, "Oh, well that would have been a good thing to know." And anyway, so he just goes down and does it. And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. We haven't even discussed.

Do we want to put it on 20 or 30 or what what's the plan?

>> Nothing. >> Okay. Which means you Okay. So that is that's hard because any any equity that's built into this thing.

>> Yeah. either you you you don't have you don't have which is a negative but also if he is underwater a hundred grand in

business loans and he has to file bankruptcy they're going to take the house and and use the equity and that to I mean you know what I mean like that gets >> yeah our hope is that your name's not on any of his debt but to Rachel's point you're not going to benefit >> from anything >> from the house yeah you yeah I mean Susan the way he's talking to you with money >> that this doesn't like your marriage overall he engages.

in everything healing in all areas of life I think not just money is what this sounds like >> and if he doesn't do that which he probably won't then you have to make a decision Susan on how you want the rest of your life to be and we never are pro- divorce right like I never want it to get to this point but I also want you to protect yourself in a situation like this where the allow like all of it like

this is it it is the most controlled financial situation on his benefit and not yours and that's unfair.

>> Well, and that's what he's told, you know, I was trying to fix it and go to the the counselor and stuff and and he just told the counselor, he just said, "I set things up the way I wanted it.

This is the way it's going to be." >> Okay. >> So, so then you >> you have grounds here. Um, we're not recommending divorce, but this is a marriage that's non-existent. It's only on paper, >> and who knows what else he's hidden from you. So, yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know how forthcoming he's going to be in divorce proceedings, but he won't have much choice when you start getting down to it. So, at this point, >> it's like you have to take your losses.

And you called asking, "What do I do about debt that's in my name?" If it's in your name, you're going to have to walk our process of the baby steps out.

And it's a baby step one, baby step two.

is you start over. But the the reality is you don't know >> build any credit. >> What's that? >> Don't you build any credit after you're married? Any equity that is built

>> but it's not in your name. >> After you're married, >> it's not in your name. >> It's not your name. >> Yeah. Here's the real answer, Susan.

>> But in our state law, it does say that any equity that's built >> from a marital perspective.

>> Well, again, that's where you need a divorce lawyer. A good one, >> right? We don't know. But but I'm saying though, Susan, if he goes but if he goes and tries to get any any assets that he can to avoid a bankruptcy or something, you know what I mean? Like he's going to be finding >> right >> anything which sc which scares me that that there's be nothing for you. Um >> well I know that's what I'm like I'm going to >> Are you working right now?

>> No. >> Okay. Do you'all have kids? Do you have kids? >> I went to school. No, I went to school

>> um for this last year. I just I just finished and I have $2,500 in in school loans that I have to start paying back in. >> What What did you go to school for?

>> Um master esthetician. I have a cosmetology life. >> Great. Can you go get Can you go get a job in the next week or two as an esthetician or doing makeovers at Nordstrom or something like that?

>> Uh >> yes. >> I don't know. I mean go to a >> It was kind of a trick question. The answer to to my question is yes.

>> No, I can't go make enough money in the next month to support myself. That's the answer. >> Well, no. Okay, but that's the wrong But you got the wrong mindset.

I didn't say to be able to make all that up. You're You have to now go get a job like Rachel said because you have to assume that you're not going to get any money out of this and you need a job because you're going to need to go rent an apartment or go find another divorced lady who needs a roommate. >> This is your reality right now. And I I hate that I'm telling you this, but >> it's that or if you choose to stay in the marriage, you guys have No, no.

>> Yeah. So, go get a full-time job.

>> He because you don't even know. I He could take everything tomorrow, you know. Um I know.

>> So, how old are you?

>> 59. >> 59. Okay. Do you have any retirement anything in your name?

No. >> No. Okay. >> Okay. But >> urgency. >> Yeah. >> It's the word. So, >> I'm proud of you for going back to school, though. That's absolutely. Seriously, you're making some right the right steps. >> Yeah. >> But there's some >> Well, I just kept seeing this coming and I I'm like, >> I've got to have some some more something. >> Yeah. >> As a foundation to be able to earn some money. And I'm just like I'm I'm this like what you're saying. I'm scared that I'm going to be left with nothing.

>> Yeah. But here's the deal. Here's the good news. You have a very good skill

and you can work and make enough money as an aesthetician. You can. So now you

must. >> But what do I do in the meantime if I don't have any access to funds?

>> You open up your own bank account.

You're a grown woman. Your money goes into your >> target for now if you need to, you know, go work somewhere and and you start your own financial life. >> Yeah. Today

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All right, folks. We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the show, but it's just not possible.

So, if you have a money question you want an answer for your situation, you can now go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained on the proven Ramsey principles. You get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, you can ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com.

And uh the ask Ramsey is right there.

You can't miss it or you can click on the link uh in our show notes. Let's go

to Steve in Hartford, Connecticut.

Steve, how can we help today?

>> Hey, so my situation is basically I'm in

a pretty toxic relationship, not abusive, you know, but definitely needs to end. And I've been working on saving for a house and it's been more pressing lately that I move out due to the nature of the relationship. So, I found a home

and it's within my budget. I'm working with a Ramy agent. I have no debt, but the home needs pretty significant repairs, and I legitimately cannot find another one. It's a, you know, it's a seemingly good value in the property, but it does need repair. So, I don't

know what to do, uh, and how to move forward.

>> Yeah. Um my caution always when someone goes and buys a home in an urgent situation. It's

not always um it's not always the best

purchasing mindset to be in if you will, right? So like if you had called and >> said you had been looking for a while and you find this and you really love it and like there's some more, you know, I don't know that there's one situation I may say yes. I'm a little concerned that because you're running from a situation urgently to get out of, which I that's great. >> It's not really urgent.

>> Yeah. >> For what it's worth, it's been prayed through and thought through for years and I'm just now have the ability. So, I don't know what the right move is. >> Well, my actual question is you said I have some concerns. I'd love to know what your most pressing concerns are about this move.

>> Uh, it definitely needs new electric.

The entire home, it's very old. So, I'm looking at 10 to 12K for that.

>> Uh, it needs a new roof within the next several years. It needs a new porch. So, those two things combined are probably another 30 or so. Uh,

it really looks like it needs about 50 to 70,000 worth of work within a about a 7year 5 to sevenyear span. Now, I can

handle it. That's the thing is I can actually handle it, but I wanted to truly, you know, make a 20-year mortgage

work. I I couldn't get a 15, but I wanted I couldn't afford the 15, but I could make a 20-year work. And I wanted to make that work, but in my head now, like I do need to leave the relationship. And I I'm not I don't actually qualify for an apartment. I can get a house, but I can't get an apartment because I have no credit because I do what Dave Ramsey says.

>> And yeah, we have a lot of Dave Ramsey listeners who can get into an apartment.

>> So, >> I understand. and I'm in the low 600s and everywhere around me needs a 640, but I did qualify for a mortgage with about 6%.

>> Well, again, I'm going to challenge you that there's a way this is this is again, you go in and you get past the policy and you go talk to a person and you go, here's why my credit score is what it is. Let me show you my entire financial life. Like, if you sit down with a a manager of a place like that, I think there's a way. Where there's a will, there's a way.

But let's go back to this. the house itself.

if this is the right house. Uh, and I

also wonder, back to Rachel's point, I'll bet you there's some elderly folks who have a room over a garage be happy to take your money as you're in a transition. This just doesn't seem on the evidence that you've given me like this is a really solid decision. And I don't think you think it's solid either.

And that's why you called. So I would not do it for those reasons.

>> Okay. >> It's an old dilapidated house. It's going to have way more problems than you've just identified. You're moving into this house only because you think you can't get an apartment. And what you've done is you've narrowed your choices falsely >> to this. And yet your gut and your brain and heart are going, "This is probably not a good idea. Why don't you call two strangers and get their take?" That's that's where I'm at. So that >> strangers Now we're friends. Yes, Steve.

>> I'm not your I'm not I'm not Steve's friend. The point stands. I appreciate the respect that you called us, but we're completely objective and I'm telling you it's screaming bad decision.

>> I would rather see you say yes, I have

three homes I've been looking at and out of the three, this is probably the best deal. Maybe more work and all of it, but I have I have multiple options. Uh or I have an apartment that I you know what I'm saying? Like whenever there's only a one solution to a problem, that's usually when people make bad financial decisions.

I'm not saying specifically this is a bad decision, but all the circumstances around it give us some red flags from what we've seen. Um, and again, you said it's not urgent, but you're like, I need to leave this relationship and I can't live in an apartment. So, it does feel like you say it's not, but it does feel like it's become the only solution right now for you.

>> Absolutely. >> Yes. So, that's what we don't like. like I'd rather you again have option A, B,

and C. And you may hate B and C, but at least there's other ways out um that you

can figure out that you know, it's not just the one. So, I would run the numbers. Usually homes like this, as you probably know, Steve, you're a smart guy. Like, it's you know, it's always more expensive than what you think. There's always more issues than what you think. And um and if you choose to walk into that, which a lot of people do cuz they just they'll have the fixer upper and that's what they know and they're comfortable with it, that's fine, right?

And if you have the money for it and that's what you want to do. It's just all the data points around it. Give us

hesitation and pause. Um yeah, so I

would call on a few more apartments, Steve. Honestly, like we we did that a few years ago. I mean, it's here in Nashville. It's not in Hartford, Connecticut. And there were like I don't know 15 apartment complexes that were called and I think I don't know maybe five of them said no but more than half said yes that you don't have to cry if you have first month's rent last month's rent all of it like you're going to be able to find a place this this house is not the only is not the only option.

>> Those policies are designed obviously to be a uh filter for people that have made bad financial decisions because they don't want to rent a place that somebody's not going to pay. But you have a very different narrative I'm sure and you can prove it. So, you got to go sit down and prove it to somebody and go, "Let me tell you why I've got this score which flagged me." I think that's far more doable than you think.

>> Yeah. A home purchase you do not want to rush into. And >> it's certainly not an old >> and justify it. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like, oh, it's going to be fine. It's going to be, you know, >> at the end of the day, you're like, is it though? Like, is it really the best option right now? >> Yeah.

And here's what I know about really old houses, cuz I have a friend, you and I have a mutual friend. I will not say their name, and they have a very, very nice old house >> in this area. >> It's almost like a landmark. And I swear to you, every time I talk to him, he gripes about all the things he's doing to that dag on house.

>> Yeah, it's a lot. >> So, it's it my point is is it's more than the porch and the roof and and it's just a mess. Electrical. It is.

>> So, that's why we're staying away from it. Let's go to Andrew in Phoenix, Arizona. Andrew, how can we help?

>> Hey, my friends. Appreciate you taking the call. My uh daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the end of October of last year.

>> U because we're getting out of debt. We had the $1,000 in the emergency savings, but we blew through that in about two days. >> Um and so my question is, we've we had

great friends who stepped in and helped us.

>> And um everybody listening who knows type one knows that it's not the same as type two. So type one's a little bit more involved. >> And um >> one of my best friend's daughters just recover that. >> So it's a lot.

>> Yeah, it's still it's a lot. >> Yeah, there's a lot. And um >> she's we've recovered from that initial we've we've been able to put 2,000 back in the bank. My wife started about seven scing funds just to kind of get our money in order.

the savings?

I'm sorry. >> It's okay. It's still It's still a lot.

Four months later. Um, >> totally understand. >> She's 11 years old. Honestly, of the We have four kids. Of the four. We're glad it was her cuz she's like, "I'm an independent woman. I will handle this. This is my responsibility." >> Real quick. We're We're uh >> Yeah, I know. I >> No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is is we're going to we're going to hold you over, okay? So that you can get a chance to gather yourself. Uh this is heavy stuff, man. So, no apologies. I got three kiddos.

>> Uh we get it. Rachel's got three. It's a lot. >> Well, one of my one of my best one Yes.

One of my best friends cuz we're heading into break, but her daughter was It was last December uhos every It was horrible. Horrible. And it's been a full year >> and it is it is so much Andrew like what? Like it's it is a lot. So the scariness and the and the tears and fear that is that is real. But from the financial perspective, hold on the line.

We're going to get back. We're coming back to you >> to talk through how you guys can get an order financially as you're in baby step two.

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All right. So, we're going to uh get back uh to Andrew in Phoenix, Arizona.

Dad, whose heart is really, really heavy. 11-year-old daughter uh diagnosed with uh type 1 diabetes. And so, we're

going to dive into the money question that we've got here. So, Andrew, coming back to you. Hope you had a chance to catch your breath. You're such a good dad. Yeah. >> Uh let's walk through your your money question for us.

So basically we, you know, we're taught to have the thousand in the bank while you're getting out of debt. And but because of her illness, it's um we have

uh good Samaritan health insurance, so we're self-pay. But they've now put my my daughter as it's a terminal illness.

And so we only have health insurance for this situation for like I think another 30 days. Um and then they won't really cover any of her medication because of the type of plan that we have. And so we're looking at other health insurance options. Um, and so I'm not really

worried about that. I'm worried about in the event that she has an emergency and I have to take her to the hospital and there or I have to go see a specialist and there's money that's demanded up front on top of a house issue or something like that happening. And believe me, when she got diagnosed in that first week, my other daughter got hurt. We did have a house issue and this is how we blew through our $1,000 within 5 days.

But again, we had amazing friends who stepped in and helped us.

while we're still trying to pay off debt? Um, or should we or is that do you guys feel like no, that 2,000's okay?

Keep tackling your debt. We are cash flowing our medication. We are cash flowing her insulin. We are cash flowing her Dexcom patches. We are doing that.

>> Okay. How much how much do you make a month and how much is going towards medical expenses each month?

Um I I bring home after taxes and paying

ties and offering I bring home about 72.

Okay. >> And about uh that you know so then um

with uh with the medical expenses we're spending about $600 or $700 a month.

>> Okay. >> Um so but she's we're hoping the next

few months that she will get approved to get an insulin pump. That's going to be $5,000. that only lasts three or four years plus the insulin that goes with that obviously. Yeah.

>> Um so these are things that we're looking for. We don't want our kids to feel like they're being punished because of this. So we're we're taking care of them at the same time, you know, with with the things that they're trying to do. We're not trying to take them out of what they're doing with their extracurricular activities and we're able to we're not going further into debt with them doing their things.

We are cash flowing everything. But again, I just wonder because of the type of >> Yeah. And I >> she has should there be more? Should we put more away?

number eventually. I think four months in you're probably not able to do that because you're because there's so many things in the air right now with is she going to get the, you know, the pump? How much is insurance going to cost? Are we able to get more insurance, new insurance? Like there's a lot floating around right now. And because of how new

this all is, yes, I'm good with a bigger buffer right now just to have some breathing room for you guys to make sure that she's taken care of, right? Our families are the number one priority.

Getting out of debt's amazing and we love that, >> but we want to we want, you know, when there's medical stuff like we say pause, like take care of your family, but also this is going to be an ongoing for the rest of her life, right? Like she will she will have this. So, I do want you to get to a place though where you can say, "Okay, here is a regular number that we're comfortable in monthtomonth.

>> Uh, we have a we have two credit cards um that have medical debt on. My wife had the bad COVID a couple years and we're still paying on that. Um, and uh

and another >> How much is all of it?

>> With the car and the two credit cards, we're right at 34,000. 34,000. My wife has this on track within the next 14 months, 16 months to have that paid off.

>> Amazing. And that's with >> my wife is amazing. She's figuring My wife is phenomenal. >> That's awesome. >> By the way, you can speed that process up at any time. It's just going to require more time of you to work, sell some things. You know, this is you can be more aggressive on that time.

>> Oh, I know. I know that. But at the same time, I don't want to My family needs me present. I work I'm a mechanic by trade.

I'm a mechanic by trade. And so I work hard and >> you're a good dad, Andrew. Y'all's life.

Your life just got turned upside down.

Yes. And we get these calls, you know, whether it's, >> you know, spouses that got diagnosed with cancer. I mean, like this is this is the stuff that happens in life. And this is one of the reasons why getting your finances in order is such a gift to your family.

So everything that y'all did up until this point of getting out of debt um was a blessing, right? You don't have what you had before this because you guys have been paying it off, which is amazing.

and then I think there is a point that we you got to press play again on life and on this plan um so that you guys don't have to stress about it right so again give yourself some grace give yourself some time everything's okay in on the money side um but I would you and your wife sit down and just say okay once we get the insurance figured out check uh

the insulin pump I know is a that's a big deal that's like a that's a huge check mark for them So that check that off and then kind of just I always like to look at the months and just say okay it's February if I you know by by

June or July we want all of this figured out and then we're going to press play and get intense again and then by next April we're going to be debtree you know whatever it is. So have some grace, but also be still looking out there to say when can we press play back on this Gazelle intensity, but we want to have some some stleness in her life and you

guys as a family. >> Yeah, thank you for the call, Andrew.

You guys are going to make it. You're doing a great job. >> All right, let's go to Sam in Lafayette, Louisiana. Sam, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for uh for taking my call. Um you guys have just changed uh my life and my my wife's life for the better. Um so I I really do appreciate y'all taking my calls. >> Thank you. >> Um so uh you know we uh I understand uh

Dave's traditional advice uh as it relates to student loans. So my my question is a student loan question. Um so I'm a physician um and I've I have a lot of kids and I've often wondered if my kids want to pursue medicine. um is

it reasonable to suggest that they do

take out loans for medical school um but to live small after they finish and to pay these loans off very aggressively like I did. Um my my reasoning for this

and and something I kind of grapple with because we're we're very davish about a lot of things. Um but uh you know I really do feel like medical training is definitely a young person's game. Um you know plenty of sleepless nights, 80hour work weeks. Um, and it's it's very difficult for a college grad, um, you know, with really no skills to save, you know, what what can't be $200,000 for medical school.

Um, you know, that's just tuition for housing and food. Um, and in your early 20s, you're often, you know, married and starting families, too.

Do you know right now if Ken Coleman and I said, "Gosh, Sam, you're so right. We didn't even think about medical. You should get student loans." Dave and Cabo

would be turning over right now.

>> I know. >> We will never ever say >> I was trying to catch up on the day when Dave wasn't on the studio, but >> Yeah. Well, I don't think you understand how our employment must work. Um, so

here's a couple real questions. How old are the kids?

>> Uh, well, I have seven kids. My oldest is 11. Okay. So, um, how much money do

you make as a doctor?

>> Uh, about 550 to 600,000.

>> Okay. And what baby step are you on?

>> Uh, we have no debt. Just paying off the house at this point.

>> Okay. So, how much are you putting away each month for all 11 of these kids? I mean, excuse me, uh, five kids. How How much are you putting away? >> Seven. Um, >> seven. >> Seven. So I yeah it's a I uh I intend to

you know fund their uh undergraduate education. Um but when it comes to medical school or professional school I just have no intention of it. I think that would be pretty detrimental to our overall financial health and and family outlook. >> Okay. Well so there's so there's the answer to your question like you paying

cash for it is detrimental to you but you're willing to because you did it uh that you think they can do it. And I just I just think this is the wrong question. First of all, your oldest is 11. We have no idea what medical school is going to look like. And honestly, things are changing so rapidly. Then then why don't you invest in their why don't you invest in their med school?

>> And this doesn't even make sense. I'm going to stop myself because here's the deal. You don't know what they're going to do. So you're asking a question about kids. Do you have no idea if they're going to go into medicine? >> You make a million dollars every two years. safe for your kid if they want to go to medical school. >> Oh, you're not going to ruin all I was going to say. Oh, yeah.

>> If my kids decide if my kids decide to not go to college, I'd be, you know, I mean, sure, you know, I just want them to live a virtuous life. My question is not necessarily for me. It's just that broad traditional student.

>> Yeah, there's ways we have we have talked to people that have gotten medical degrees because they've done they've done different, you know, programs and situations. It happens. But no, we're not taking out loans. We'll never ever say to take out student loans.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Glad you're with us today. The phone number is88255225.

Dylan is joining us now in Lincoln, Nebraska. Dylan, how can we help?

>> Hi, I am in

$90,000 of student loan debt, not

including a mortgage, and me and my fiance are living paycheck to paycheck.

And I'm wondering how we can further our

further our life without living like that.

>> Is it 90,000 combined, Dylan, you and your girlfriend, or just yours, your debt? >> Uh, just mine. She was a luckily a good

enough athlete to where she didn't have to pay for college. >> Okay. So yours is 90,000 and it's all student loans.

>> Yep. >> Okay. And how much are you making a year?

>> I make 55 before taxes roughly 40 after.

>> Okay. And how much is she making a year?

>> She makes about 30 before taxes.

>> Okay. What does she do for a living?

She is a receptionist at a vet veterinarian client. >> Okay. Yep. And what do you do?

>> Uh I work in low voltage.

>> Okay. >> So cameras and whatnot.

>> Okay. Um and you guys are engaged. Is that what you said? >> Yes. >> Great. When's the wedding?

>> August. >> August. So exciting. Okay. So, I would

um I would say first and foremost, I would not combine your wedding until August. It's not that far away, but um

just as kind of a rule of thumb. I don't want her paying on your student loans right now until you guys are officially married. And then once you are, you guys need to be Yeah, you guys are going to combine your money and look to say, okay, if we, you know, we're we have a, you know, $85,000 income before taxes,

household, and what does our life need

to look like to live within these means?

Do we need to be renting somewhere cheaper? Do we need to be taking on or finding more work? Um, you know, she probably has the most um opportunity, I

would say. I mean, she's making 30. She There's probably other opportunities out there for her to be >> What is her field?

>> Uh, she is a psych degree, psychology degree. >> Well, that's just her degree. What field does she want to be in?

>> Uh, she likes the well, she likes a veterinarian field and she wants to further pursue that and go back to school for that, but at the moment, it's not in our budget. >> Obviously not. So, what can she what is she doing now to make 30 grand?

She is just a receptionist, a front desk gal at a vet clinic.

>> Okay. Well, so since being a vet and going to school and vet school is insane from everything I've heard as far as cost. Um, let's go get a better paying

job or let's go get a second job and let's tackle this debt. You guys are double income, about ready to be double income, no kids. This is the moment to get after. She's a former athlete if I heard this right. So, let's set some goals in place. She knows goals >> and let's look at how do we increase her income from 30 to 50, >> okay? Whether that's through two jobs or a better primary job. She's got a psych degree. Let's just see what's out there.

Like, this is the moment where you all are like all in on ideiating. Let's get out there and let's make more money cuz you guys can do this. If you take Rachel's advice and you go all in after you combine incomes, uh you guys can knock this out and not be paycheck to paycheck. But cutting it cutting cost and raising income is how you do this.

>> Okay. >> How much is your how much is your rent right now?

>> Well, our we don't own the house and our

mortgage is 1,400 a month.

>> You do own it or you don't?

>> We do. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, you have a house together and it's 1,400 a month. Okay.

Which, yeah, isn't >> isn't terrible. And then where where else is your money going?

>> Um, so we got the mortgage and then it's an older house. So, especially now in the winter times, it the electrical bill

and gas bill kind of skyrockets because

like I said, it's an older house. We're working on redoing it slowly because of

financials, but >> Okay. Well, so how much is the heat a month? Let's just What What's the number? How much you pay?

>> Uh gas is around like 250 a month.

>> Okay. >> In the in the colder months.

>> Okay. And what else? What else? I'm doing a rough budget for you and I got 3,400 left out of your monthly income.

What where else is it going?

>> And then I have 750 in student loans.

>> Yep. >> And then electrical is around 200 to 250

depending on the month. In the summers, it's a little bit more, but not much.

>> Okay.

>> And other than that, groceries.

And we just got done paying off a couple

pet bills, >> okay? >> Because we have a dog.

>> Okay. So, yeah. I I I I want you guys to do a written budget because I'm sitting I'm just doing rough math. It's not I'm not saying that this is exactly what everything is, >> but you you should have around two grandish left. 1,800, two grand, and I'm

like, where is that? And it's probably

eating out and some Target runs or whatever. It's life. I understand stuff.

Yeah. >> Um, but I I think if you guys do a written budget, you're going to feel like you got a raise. >> I And I mean a strict budget, like we're shopping at Aldi, we're not going out to eat, like we're doing we're doing nothing. And we're doing food for >> it's just the two of you for 400 a month, which can be done, you know, like.

Mhm. >> So, so I I I think it is a level for you guys of of actually living on a plan and being pretty frugal until this 90 grand is paid off >> and and working extra. >> Yeah. And pausing pausing the little housing projects if it's not an emergency and it's a $250 little thing we'd like to fix.

Nope. We're not doing that. We signed up to live in an old house.

So, that means we're camping a little bit, right? You know, it's again emergency common sense here. But other than that, >> you know, if this floorboard caks and it's going to cost $300 to fix, sorry, the floorboard's going to creek.

>> So, it is Rachel's right. And I just want to throw that in there because >> you need the right mindset in order to adopt what she's talking about, which is a strict budget. So, you go, what does strict mean? >> And strict means the four walls, Rachel.

>> Yeah. >> And explain that. You know, I'll give it to you back. Give it back to you. But I think that that's what they've got to have. It's like we are saying there are certain things that we are not going to spend money on and simplifying so that we can be super strict. >> Yeah, that's right. And if she ups her income, Dylan, and you guys get an extra

gosh 1,500, two grand a month just from a salary job, like >> game changer. >> That's that's huge. You know what I mean? So um so yeah, it is it is hard.

How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're both 23.

>> Okay. So there is a hard reality too, Dylan, um, of coming out of college,

getting your first jobs, which are always entry level, you're starting at the bottom, and seeing how expensive life is. Like life is not as, you know, you look at your parents and say, "Oh my gosh, look at like the life they're living or people 15 years older than me." There's a reality of starting off and >> y'all are feeling that. You know what I mean? So there's there's something really beautiful about it.

I think there's something that um creates in you all some really good habits to tighten up, but it's a little bit of you kind of get hit in the face with reality that it's not an Instagram world when you actually got to make the money and you actually see after you pay taxes and insurance and everything.

>> Yeah. Everybody wants to own a home and I'm like, you should probably enjoy renting and let the supervisor take care of all your problems for 2 years cuz as soon as you own a home, you got problems. And I and I'm not in any way knocking the dream of a of a home.

>> Sure. >> But it's not all it's cracked up to be, okay? I mean, I could you could talk me into going right now in some apartment where I don't have to do anything.

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All right, Adam is up next in Seattle, Washington. Adam, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Um, hey, so admittedly, um, I've been kind of Daveish for seven years. Um, but two

days ago, I became debtree. Um, congratulations. >> Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Um, my fiance, the woman of my dreams, and I just got engaged uh this past August. Um, and she also started law

school about 5 hours away. Um, and uh is

taking some student loans for that and starting to accumulate some more debt.

Um, so we're kind of considering a couple things. uh one kind of as independent um and we're not married yet. Should I just start building my emergency fund and saving for a wedding?

Um or should we maybe rush the

engagement uh maybe a lope to a small wedding and start cash flowing law school? >> That one. >> Well, I was going to say >> he gave me >> whichever one you want. It's more there's not a right or wrong necessarily. >> Did I say one was right or one was wrong? He called the show. He gave us two scenarios and I voted.

>> And Ken said, >> "Well, maybe I can throw in something else then. I'm not super fulfilled with

my current job in the place I'm working at. Not necessarily um what I'm doing.

>> I'm even more concrete now on this decision. >> Okay, we'll keep going. So, what do you think?" >> Yeah. Sorry. And then living 5 hours away. So, like I we I commute over

almost every weekend uh to spend time with her. Um, but if I keep my current job, we could cash flow everything, but maybe not live with each other for the next two years.

>> Okay, that's absurd.

>> Wait, wait. When's the wedding? >> Well, he doesn't know. That was part of the question. >> Oh, yeah. The alop. >> He's like, do we save up and do the wedding? And I know you love a good wedding. Or do I alope? So, so I got

more questions. I was having a little bit of fun. >> Yeah. No, it was great >> with the certainty of it. But, but okay.

So, let's go back to if I stay in my job that I'm not fulfilled in, I can cash flow the law school, but we can't actually live in the same city. Did I hear that correctly? >> You heard that correctly. >> Well, that's a terrible idea. >> Yeah, that Yeah. >> So, the question is, uh, can you start

to look in the area where she is, and is that where you two would like to start your life, where she currently is? That would be the first question.

Yeah, we've kind of agreed that's not necessarily where we want to spend any time after she finishes school.

>> And it's going to take her what, two years from now?

>> Uh, yeah, about two. So, May of 2028, it will be the graduation target.

>> When what can you find a job where she is where she's going to law school? Do you have a job that's pretty easy to to kind of transfer and get and make similar types of similar type of money that you are now? >> I I would probably I would probably take around a 10% pay cut to live at like in that side of the state. Okay. Okay. Um, but I could probably find something similar. >> And how much would it be? How much would you be making? >> Uh, probably closer to 89 to 90,000

instead of like 100 to 105.

>> What What is she doing now?

>> She is a part-time um for a law firm, a

family law firm. Um, and she is doing like legal intake and processes for them. Um, and while she's in school.

>> So, she has exact she has started law school. >> Yes. And is that is that helping pay for hers at all what she's doing now?

>> Yeah, it's it helps uh basically cover the cost of living. She got a really good scholarship that's non-conditional, which is awesome. Um and so like the out-ofpocket cost for tuition uh is like

13ish,000 a semester.

>> That's not bad. That's not bad for law school. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think you move to her temporarily. Oh, Rachel has wrote it down. She has a plan. It's right here.

This is what I would do, Adam. Okay.

I would plan for a December wedding. You got 10 months. Okay. >> Okay.

>> Um, if you can make similar money, I'm leaving. I'm going to go next to the fiance. I'm, you know what I mean? So, I would go rent.

You go rent an apartment that you both like and say, "Okay, this is probably we're going to live for 2 years." You stay there, stay at the new apartment, and you start working at them. You start saving, saving, saving, saving, saving. Spend a little bit of money and have a little wedding. It doesn't have to be big or wonderful or fancy.

>> But I' I'd move on this if that's if you guys are really going to get married, get married. I don't like this two-year.

>> Yeah, but you push you pushed him out to December. I like your plan. You go faster some I just have a December wedding and I like December weddings, so that's what I would have. >> This is why I do what I do on this show because >> I am agnostic about weddings.

I'm very public about this lately. It's come up a lot on shows. I'm very strong position that no guy ever wants to go to a wedding. It's only their wives.

So, what are we doing? We're spending money on something that quite frankly we could just do very intimate, small group of people, take some really nice pictures, skip the shrimp, >> whatever.

a job first in this other place.

>> Get Yeah. And then when I got the job and somewhere around the same week that I started the new job, we would go uh get a pastor or a justice of the peace, do a small little ceremony, get married, combine finances, move forward, do and then and then eventually >> do a really amazing honeymoon to celebrate it. But I understand what I'm

saying does not play well with women.

>> I I understand. >> Oh, it's half of the equation. So I I

understand that what >> she's also someone that just chose to go to law school and there's a little bit of like a hey I kind of chose this so then this over there is going to have to give right >> tradeoffs. >> Yeah it's fair. >> What do you think Adam? Any Did we cover everything?

>> Yeah. No, I think you covered everything quite a bit. Um I I appreciate all of that. Um and I think it gives me some real clarity on finding a job on the on the you know other side of the state and >> what's going on.

Yeah. And just starting a new life. >> Yeah. I love that you're going to cash flow law school.

That's amazing. That will be the greatest decision that you ever make. >> How smart is she to get that job that she was getting and scholarship and all of it?

because a small wedding now costs.

>> I know it's expensive. >> It's absurd. >> When you can do the renew the vowels and have a big thing there, you know, in five years or something. I should get I should get some online license and I'll just marry people live on the show.

>> So just Pastor Ken.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I just get just get Adam and his fiance on a video call. I'll do the thing. We'll marry him. We'll do the join. It's great >> from people who want to move quickly like me. >> It's fair. >> Efficiency is the game. Hey, you know, we get fun social questions, Rachel, from time to time. So, I've picked out one for you over here. All right. You you you like the the Tik Tok, don't you?

>> Aren't you over there? I don't like the Tik Tok, the Instagram.

>> Let me see if I have one from the gram.

Uh, I don't, but I'm going to give you one from Tik Tok cuz you're you're super cool. >> They're younger than me, but go ahead.

>> This is Hayden from Tik Tok. Why do you recommend term life insurance over whole life insurance? >> Who what was his name? >> Hayden. >> Hayden. >> Yeah, he's on the talk throwing it your way.

>> I'm trying to sound cool and it occurred to me that doesn't sound cool at all.

Okay. >> Okay. basic re reasons is whole life is

significantly more experienced expensive I'm sorry than term life and with whole life insurance they're mixing why it's expensive is because you have this investment inside the insurance so always remember keep your investments and your insurance separate because when you combine them like that you get a crappy rate of return whole life insurance there's so many different names for it but there's so many hoops of um like when you die they keep a

certain amount you don't get as much I mean it's It is it's an exhausting product that actually ends up screwing the consumer in the long run where you could have had which you should term life insurance if someone is dependent upon your income that's significantly cheaper and then whatever you would have paid for the whole life just invest that and you will come out so ahead. We did that on the show. We did this on the show. It was maybe last week.

>> Someone had a whole life policy that like their grandparent opened for them when they were like seven years old.

They were 40some and they were going to cash it out and there was only I want to say like 90 grand in there after all of that when we said if they had paid >> and we had did the investments it would have been it was like over it was over a million dollars >> make you sick your stomach. >> It's unbelievable what you are missing out when you are using your insurance as an investment. Don't do that. And that's what whole life does.

So it's usually your it's usually a family a young family member selling it to. They come out of school. >> Don't get tied in. Don't get tempted by whole life.

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>> Today's question comes from Steve in Minnesota. My cousin is a home builder and needs $150,000 to fund his business.

He asked me to loan him $75,000 and my

brother to loan the other $75,000. He says that he has all of his assets in property that hasn't sold. I'm concerned he's overleveraged and won't be able to pay it back. Should I do it because he's

family?

Um, I mean, my short answer is no. I

wouldn't be loaning money to family regardless. If you have the 75,000 in cash and you want to give it as a gift to help the old cousin out, you're welcome to do that. I probably wouldn't.

So, I wouldn't because it's a loan and I wouldn't because of the assumption that just because it's family, you're supposed to help all the time. No. Um, but if you if you guys are really close and you're like, "Hey, I don't know.

This is Steve. What do you think Steve's cousin's name is? What would you guess?

>> Steve from Minnesota. So, I feel like I need to go with a strong Minnesota Midwest name. I'm going to go Owen.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. So, Owen, >> maybe. >> Yeah. So, if you love Owen or Ben and you and Owen are Oh my gosh. My friend Ben is from Minnesota. >> Oh, that's right.

>> Okay. But yeah, if you and Owen are like brothers, you're really cousins and you're like And he's Listen, I'm I'm not giving you a situation. Steve's a millionaire and Steve's like, "Poor Owen and Betsy, his wife. They need help.

>> Steve is not and we're gonna help him." >> Then you can you can give and if that's what you choose to do. >> Sure. >> But that's probably not the situation.

>> There's a reason why he's asking for 150,000 from you and his brother. I know. >> And goodness gracious, you've got to trust your gut on these things.

>> Yeah. >> If somebody presents like that every time, he answered his own question. Just a little object lesson really quick. We'll go right back to the phone, but this you need to hear this folks, okay?

If you ask somebody this question or you say, "I'm concerned he is overleveraged and won't be able to pay it back. Should I do it because he's family?

>> He's probably over the leading sentence.

I'm concerned he's overleveraged and won't be able to pay it back." Ding, ding, ding. There's your answer.

>> I think sometimes he >> follow your concern. >> Need someone else to say no.

>> We really should say, would you like to hate this guy >> in the future? cuz you're going to hate him when he doesn't pay you back. >> Terrible. The whole loaning money to family, y'all. It don't do it. It ruins

the relationship. Do not do it.

>> Oh, such a hard pass. >> So, Steve, no. Unless you're I don't care what his name is.

>> Christina is up next in West Palm Beach, Florida. Christina, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Um, I'm going to try to be straight to the point. Um, uh, I'm 56 and my husband is 57. Uh we make about $200 to $250,000

a year and we have a net worth of $3 million. Um that $3 million net worth is

made up of our primary residence which is worth about $2.2 million and we have no mortgage on it. We also own an investment property that's a townhouse in in the same area where we live that's worth about 350 and we have a $200,000 mortgage on it. So, of our $3 million in net worth, 2,350 is equity and property

that is unrealized because it's it's sitting there um as it is. Um in our

retirement account, we have about uh $500,000. We have well over six months of living expenses, so about $150,000.

Um and that makes up where we get to the $3 million. So, here's my question. My

question is in about seven to eight years, we're going to probably want to retire. will be around 65. If we sell our primary house right now, it's worth 2.2 million. We, as I said, we have no

debt on it. So, we would get the 2.2 minus real estate commissions, minus taxes, capital gains, and all of that.

Um, and then in 7 to 8 years, that that

the money that's left over about 1.9 million based on, you know, investing conservatively like you guys have talked about and putting into a good solid mutual fund, that 1.9 could be really worth close to like 3.8. 8 somewhere in that range. So then when we're retiring now we're upwards of 3.8 and of course over the next seven to eight years we're not going to retire. I work from home so I can I can be mobile. Um my husband has

a small business that he would sell. It gives us a different chapter in our life that we're ready to start. We think but we're nervous which is why we're calling you. >> Um as a matter of fact I'm calling you.

My husband has no idea but we're calling you. And um because we you know we don't

it seems like so so we would be working for the next 5 to seven eight years.

Yeah. So we'd still be dumping money into retirement. We would still be putting money away. >> Christina, if you just let me ask you this. Let's pretend for a second. You sold the investment property. Okay, just go with me. You'll net out about 150,000. Add that to your 500,000. So you're at $650,000 in retirement right now. You're not going to stop working.

How much could you guys be putting away in retirement for the next five years?

How much extra do you think there'll be in there?

>> We we could probably put away now that our our home is paid off and if you were to sell the investment property, which really isn't an expense to us, probably $50,000 a year, we could probably put away into retirement. >> So, another comfortably.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, with that, with the money doubling every every seven years, we'll kind of shorten it to five years just for the math sake. you probably would have around 1.5 million without selling the home. Okay.

If you run that out through retirement, my question to you is, and you may want to sit down with the Smart Investor Pro to like look at all these numbers more specifically, but would that be enough for you guys?

>> Because how much do you live on a year?

>> About $200,000 a year that we live on.

>> So you you live on basically everything you make. You make 200.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, we make 200. I'm sorry. No, we live well below our means. We probably live on about uh about 95 to 100,000. We put the rest into retirement and things paying down mortgages and things like that over the years. Yeah. Probably closer to 100.

>> Yeah. So, I I would run those numbers out and just see um what it looks like because ideally you're not you don't want to touch the nest egg, but you would be you'd be hitting it pretty close. You'd be squeaking by at 1.5. And to that end, I just I'm wondering, have you guys discussed staying in this house long term, even as you are aging? Do you want to stay in your current home that's paid for, or is that at some point we're going to downsize or relocate?

>> So, our home is a very small home. It's a two-bedroom, one bath. Our home is not worth the money. It's worth the the 2.2 is the dirt. >> So, we live in an area where people are coming down and knocking down the old homes and building big huge houses.

>> So, for us, is it a house that we want to stay in? It's We're getting to an age where we want to be in a community, not a downtown area where, you know, there's a lot of Airbnbs and people coming and going and people staying for two months out of the year and then leaving. >> Yeah. >> One of our We'd like to be in a community where it's people more I mean, I don't know, maybe. >> Do you have a community in mind? Yeah.

Do you have a community in mind right now that you guys see that would be fun to live in?

We uh no, but we have looked into

staying in Florida and perhaps maybe going to a different area of Florida, maybe the Tampa region or um the Jacksonville. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would just just look go online and just look at some places, see how much those are, right? Because depending on the city in Florida, depending on the community, depending how far you are from the coast or not, like the prices are going to vary. And I

would see what could you get if you know you know you would get what 2.2. Is that what you said? And golly, a million bucks. What would that buy?

I don't know. Do you know what I mean? It could it could be an expensive area. >> It could.

So that's what I'm saying. I think it's worth the exercise >> in the chance that you might go, "Well, let's go ahead and cash out of our current home right now and we take the windfall of that and let's get that invested." To Rachel's point, I mean, I'm saying that's possible to put that money in >> and you guys live a little bit less expensive maybe in another place. Just all stuff to be thinking through. You guys aren't in bad shape, but you're not in great shape.

>> That puts you in good shape.

>> Yeah. And Christina, the good thing is too from like a mental perspective, you're, you know, it's a small house.

It's the dirt that's expensive.

>> And so there's a part that god, you get 2.2 million for not a big house. So that's not, it's not like you're going from a nice big house to a small one downsizing. You actually may get the same size house somewhere else. I know that's right.

half half the price. So So yeah, nothing's on fire. I don't think that, you know, you need to rush by any means. Um, but yeah, here in the next two years, you guys really start thinking, okay, if we take these numbers and expand it out, could we live on this and do we need to sell this?

It sounds like you want to sell. You don't want to be with next all the Airbnbs.

So I'd do it sooner than later if you guys want.

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Okay, breaking news. You know, I love to do a little breaking news every once in a while. >> Oh my gosh, I thought you were being for real. I was like, "Oh my gosh, what?" >> You just killed the fact that I'm not being for real. I'm trying to act here.

>> All the current events happening. >> You just stepped right on it. >> Do we know? Do we Did something happen?

>> Folks, you got to know this about Rachel. She's lovely. She's exactly who you think she is. She's very literal.

Like I'm being sarcastic about something I got to tell you about. >> I knew you were. I was playing a little bit, but you're like, "We got breaking news." Like, there's a lot of things happening in the news right now that we are on pins and needles. >> Well, this is breaking news, >> Ramsey style. Go >> the VIP package on the live like no one else cruise has sold out.

>> What? >> I told you it was breaking right here.

>> What's it when they when they had the newspapers back in the day?

>> Right. We need a we need a broadcast news style flashing logo that you know makes it seem even more important than it is. >> I cannot believe it. >> Well, it's going fast. So, this is a lot faster than the last one. So, that you're looking for a trend. There it is.

It's Yeah. >> So, now that means that there's the what's left. >> Yeah, >> it's a good question, Rachel. Thank you for asking. >> The preferred package for extra access, better seating, more time with Dave and the Ramsay personalities for those of you that care about that. So, if you're debtree, this is your chance to celebrate with us. You can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit. That's

nothing for you people that are just, you know, four, five, and six. You're just cash heavy. You just got cash. 600 bucks gets you a cabin. We're going to the Western Caribbean in March of 2027.

And uh so there you go. VIP package. Too

late. >> No, breaking news. >> Preferred package out, >> but the preferred package is still available. >> It's there. What was it called though? When the when the guys would have newspapers on the streets, I'm thinking like Titanic days. What would they yell to for you to buy the newspaper? Do you know what I mean? >> Here ye hear ye. >> Extra extra extra extra. Read all about it. I went about a hundred years earlier. I went with the hear ye here ye. That's what I said. That shows you

where my brain is at. There's people in the audience out there going, I don't know what ye means.

>> Here ye. >> It means you. But they said ye. Here ye.

Here ye. All right. William is up in Birmingham, Alabama. William, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, so I am

so much stressing about uh finances um

to the point where I have given myself um few months ago a miniature stroke. My doctor says that I probably want to see, you know, past 40 because of how much stress I'm under.

>> Good gracious. How old are you? >> And I'm 29.

>> Okay, then what what is this debt? How much debt are we talking about? that's causing you to have a stroke?

>> Uh, it's not as much as I've heard on, you know, on the show. Um, it's about 15,000 give or take.

>> Okay. I'm not a doctor. I have wanted to

play one on TV. It's never going to happen, but I do like to wear scrubs.

Okay. Long setup. I think you're going to be okay.

$15,000 feels and I'm not in any way

minimizing your feelings what's going on, but I want to give you some advice here that we're going to walk you through how to get out of this 15,000.

It is very doable and nothing that you should be dying over.

>> Yeah, but the doctor may be for real being like, well, he may be really stream maybe all. >> No, no, I believe he is, but I'm trying to say >> yes. As a financial, >> we can help you. >> Yes. William, why are you How much do you make a year?

Um roughly about 55,000 a year.

>> Okay. Whatever. Okay. What's the 15,000 in debt?

>> Uh 10,000 if it's for a car payment. Um the rest is collections.

>> Okay. What's the car worth?

>> Um I want to say it's worth 15.

>> You could sell that like that's private private sale. You could sell it for 15.

>> Mhm. >> And you owe 10 on it.

>> Great. That one's solved.

>> We can solve that. You can sell that today and sleep like a newborn baby.

>> Yeah, you're like literally >> like like in like 5 days.

>> What's the collections? Five grand of collections for what?

>> Uh credit cards, uh student loan,

and uh I believe that's it.

>> Okay. I want Rachel to walk you through what she would do if she were you with those collections.

>> Well, I would Do you have any money saved? I don't I don't have any nest eggs, emergency funds. >> Okay, so you got I'm living paycheck to paycheck. >> So, here's what I would do today. I would go find us, you know, sell the car, get a $5,000 car, be done with that. You have $5,000 in collections.

It's what, midFebruary.

I'd make it a goal by March

30th. I'm just throwing that out there.

That I would have $5,000, William, that my life depends on it because apparently it does for you. Like literally like you need to go and work >> every night till 10 pm somewhere. You need to sell everything. You need to eat

nothing but beans and rice, rice and beans, as Ramsey would say. Like do nothing for a month and a half and work

your butt off and save $5,000.

Make it make it like an extreme goal.

It's extreme, but I would do it.

>> What do you do for a living, William?

>> Um I'm retired military. Um I got up medically. Um I have two kids recently.

divorced. Um, still have custody of my kids. Um, >> so are you on full benefits? Are So, in other words, you're not pulling income from any other source.

>> Correct. >> So, so what do you Okay. So,

>> what do you do during the day? >> What could you do? Yeah. What are you doing during the day?

>> Um, I'm looking for employment. Um, I made some really bad choices um a couple years ago and um it left me in with incarceration. I'm still dealing with it um with drug court. Um hopefully I'll be

getting my charter dismissed in September when I complete the program.

Um >> I think the stress is coming from other places than $15,000 of debt, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I could tie I could tie, you know, with the employment and finances and all that tying to the bigger picture, but I think it's more of the bigger picture. But >> I agree. >> Okay. Well, that does make more sense and we we can't necessarily help with that. But I would tell you that um

>> you need to be doing something.

>> Uh it will help with all of this.

>> But this, you know, ruminating all day long, getting rejected because you're applying and you you've got the incarceration. So what I hate about the American culture is it's very hard for someone like you who didn't do anything crazy, but you should be employed. But I I know someone can employ you. And so here's your homework assignment. Where in your area are people working that have stuff on their record probably worse than you? You know what I'm talking about. >> Mhm. >> Where are they working? I can tell you where they're working. On construction sites.

Okay. In the trades. Do you have any skill set that would allow you to do some basic trade work?

>> Not trade work. I have a degree, you know, in business management, but as far as trades, construction, all that, I don't have anything in that.

>> Are you any good at it? Can you pick up a shovel? Can you work for a masonry crew and haul around bricks and make make uh brick mud all day long?

>> I think I can manage. >> Yeah, I know you can because I did it at 18 and I can barely put gas in my car at 51. So, we're talking manual labor. No

one wants to do it except the Williams of the world.

So, I'm going to go find a manual labor job >> just to get >> I was going to say I mean honestly it's less about the money. The money is going to help get you this five grand ASAP, which you need to get just to pay it off. >> But the it's the dignity piece. There's something about getting up, having a destination to go to.

>> Completing something like there's something in that, William, that that self-confidence comes back to you.

>> Yeah. But you need that 20 to $22 an hour labor job in a warehouse. Don't get locked in on my one example. I'm just trying to get you.

If I was you and I needed to do what Rachel told me to do, and she's right, by the way, I would go, "Where are the jobs that most people don't want because they're hard? They're like my good friend Mike Row calls them, dirty jobs. Go do that because they pay really well and it will help you in the short term on this money stuff." And and and then help your soul. You tell me.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm 29. >> You're 29. Okay. And you said recently divorced. Was that how recent was that?

Uh we finalized yesterday.

>> Oh >> yesesh >> man well I'm sorry that's there's you've had some yeah some challenges some uphill really hard hard things in your

story. Um but what a beautiful thing that you are still so young honestly and that you could turn your whole life around like you you know and you probably are making steps to do that now. Um but but getting some of this

accomplished and I think there is something about paying off that debt that actually again good financially obviously but there's something about that self-dignity and progress that you make in life that you're actually making positive progress towards something positive the direction's going positive positive and it's just one day at a time

making those decisions and then over the scope of a year two years three years William like you're going to be a different man you really are but you got to change and and you have to put in that effort because that's what's going to help help this whole process from the financial and the work and who you are, William. So, we're cheering for you.

We're so glad you called.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in isle8255225.

Wes is up in Los Angeles, California.

Wes, how can we help?

Hey. Uh, I was just calling. Uh, me and my wife, we make around 165 a year. We

have no debt. We have about 50k in savings. And I was just wondering if it' be dumb to uh do a nice vacation this summer and spend about 10 grand.

>> Okay. 10 grand.

Uh, and and are we cash flowing this or are we going to pull that from somewhere else? >> We are going to be cash flowing it.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't I don't see any red flags here. What are you concerned about?

>> Uh well, I mean, we still owe on the house, so you know, I I we could white knuckle it.

And I mean, I we we project to pay off the house in about eight years, and that's way faster than 30 years. So,

um >> you're doing great. >> Could throw more in retirement. I don't know. I just hear a lot of stories about people who retire and don't have enough or stuff like that. So, you think your $10,000 vacation is going to put you behind some of your key goals?

>> Well, I don't know. That's why I I I've been going back and forth about this for months. Well, but I'm I'm actually trying to dig into the source of why you would ask that question because that's we need to kind of get that up and and to the top and go, okay, let's if if you're concerned that 10,000 is extravagant based on your financial goals, then you have to play that out and go, okay, if I didn't spend any money on vacation, which I think is crazy and I would never recommend that.

Um, so what what would be the difference? So, what would be the budget conscious vacation? How much would you spend on that if you didn't spend 10?

Uh well, we've done other vacations where we've sent maybe like five or four, but uh this would be this would be a lot. So we I could do that. But also, I mean, >> well, let me play that out. >> Uh >> let me play that out. So, I'm trying to help you. >> So, let's say we say, "No, 10,000 is too much." And so, we spend five because we've done that before. So, now you've saved $5,000 to go into one of two of

those buckets, either towards the house or throw extra five grand in retirement.

When you play that out, I think that's important to go, how much impact is that really making versus I'm really winning in the baby steps. I'm going to pay my house off in eight years and it's a nice vacation that will remember the rest of our life. And oh, by the way, we're not promised tomorrow.

Now, that's where I'm coming at it. And so, I don't think it's too much, especially that you're cash flowing it.

>> Yes. >> I would 100% do it. >> Yeah. You Yes. You guys have no debt.

You have good savings. How much do you have in retirement just in general?

>> Okay. So, we both have California pensions and I also have been maxing out an IRA for the last uh year and a half and I can still I'm worth only in our 30s. So, I I'm going to continue.

>> How much do you have currently in all of your retirement accounts?

>> I don't know exact I know I have about 12,000 in my IRA that I started about a year and a half ago. And uh the California pension stuff I don't know it doesn't have a cash value the same as others do. have like you will make 85%

of said salary at the end of your job or

whatever.

>> Well, guarantees. Yeah. >> Hoping that the California pension is still around is a bit of a risk in my opinion, but but maybe that's not maybe I'm being crazy, but I mean seriously, the way that government runs.

>> What's your What does your wife say?

>> Pension. >> Uh she she doesn't care about the vacations as much as I do. I I I was just going back and forth because I'm like, how much do I really need in savings when I'm 60 versus how much did I miss on living during the time?

>> Yeah. Are you taking is it wife, kids, just you and the wife? Who who we talking about? >> Just me and the wife. Just me and the wife. >> Going where?

>> Uh Hawaii.

>> Yes, >> bro. Life is short, man. I would go to

Hawaii. Eat all the shave ice you can possibly get away with. Make memories,

man. >> What I was drinking. Go enjoy, Wes.

Don't worry. You are doing fine.

>> You're doing great. >> You guys are doing awesome. You are. >> Wow. I like these calls. Wes, you're fine. Go do it. No guilt.

>> That's it, too. It's such a scarcity mentality. But if you you got to you got to look at your facts and play everything out. Debtree, 50 grand, makes

165 a year. Like, we're all going to be okay. >> It's cash flowing. It's great. We're all going to be okay. Fantastic. I love it.

All right. Stephanie's up in Greenville, South Carolina. Stephanie, how can we help?

>> Hi. We're a military family. Uh we have one income, no debt, and we're just feeling a little bit behind on day six because of our frequent moves. And so we have a move this summer. And I was just curious if you would recommend I know you guys don't normally um renting out our current house. Um since retirement

is on the horizon,

>> renting out your what? Sorry, say that again. >> Our current the current home we live in right now before we move this summer.

So, you're talking about being a long-distance landlord, >> correct? Yes.

>> Yeah. We're not fans of that.

>> It it's it's just if you run the numbers on it, I bet you'll find that the amount

of profit after all of the expenses that you that are required to take care of this home. >> Uh if you take what I'm going to get in rent, okay, minus the mortgage minus expenses, I'll bet you're going to find it's very little profit, if any at all.

And it's a whole lot of hassle.

Right. Our our thought was that we might potentially move back to this house. Um and we have a really great interest rate. Um so I didn't know if any of those factors mattered or if you guys always recommended just selling. >> How long would it take you to get back to the next place?

>> Um somewhere between two and four years.

>> So it's a short-term deployment and there's a how much of a how much control do you have over being transferred back in? Or is this the idea that we're going to get out of the military and then settle back?

He's at 20 years right now. So retirement is very much on that.

>> Okay. I do think that changes the question a little bit if they're talking about short-term coming back.

>> Yeah. Well, um I know my my only thing

which this is >> still a headache and all the things I said are still true. >> Yeah. And this is going to be picky, but I'm I'm going to be honest, Stephanie, too. You got to remember if you have someone living in your house, maybe two or three different people on 12 month, you know, rentals and you move back in, it feels different.

there there is a a reality of people living in your home that's your home that you're going to do it. Do you know what I mean? So, >> um not that that not that that's a reason not to, but I think we paint this ideal situation and then when the rubber meets the road and we're actually walking in it dayto day, it's like, oh, it just hurts so much when you go in and the house is all banged up because of renters and you know what I mean? All the things.

>> Yeah. Okay, that actually brings up a good point. Is this house, Stephanie, that you're currently in that you would you would rent and go somewhere else and then come back? Is that a house you would stay in long term if if the move wasn't involved?

like a forever house, but we do we do like it. Um, we just like I said, we're feeling very behind on baby step six because we just haven't had a mortgage to work to pay off and we're 43. That's fine. But how much is the house worth if we were to sell it today? And how much would you make on it?

>> So we would make around somewhere around 100 110.

It's worth about 450.

>> Well, the fact that you guys would would not stay in it longer than 5 to seven years and it's for I would pro honestly Stephanie I would too.

>> If if you had said this is our dream home, that was where I was going. I would have changed my mind. I'm with Rachel. I'd sell >> pocket the 100 grand. Let it work for you. >> Yes. put the hundred grand um gosh for four years you may even just throw it in an index fund Stephanie honestly and and then when you guys are ready to buy again after and settle down um yeah

you're going you'll have a good amount in there too I mean you know >> and I also sense that he's probably going to go into a private sector job if that's the case we want to know what that is how much money he's going to make cuz that's all going to play into uh what we buy when we come back I love selling this house peace of mind extra

for cash. I like it all. You guys are not behind it all.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together.

But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our Every Dollar app is the gamecher you need.

In 15 minutes, Every Dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out.

Download the Every Dollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

All right, folks. One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner.

They're going to help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year. Go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro.

Ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. All right, let's go to Bill in Detroit, Michigan. Bill, how can we help?

>> Hey, how you doing, Ken? Rachel, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? Um, I have uh about 850,000 in my uh

401k and my other other investments and

my advisor wanted me to >> Excuse me. >> It's like good for you. Great.

>> I was like, I don't know if that's good or not. I'm 62 and I want to retire in a couple years and my advisor is wanting me to invest in an annuity.

>> Is that something I should think about?

Don't do that. >> Nope. Your advisor probably does because they make a lot of money off of annuities. Not saying that he's a bad guy, but >> yeah. No annuities. Yes. Yeah. Um, not a

great product. I mean, there's var variable and fixed >> variable. There's certain times that maybe, but that's after everything is maxed out and you have no other options for retirement because you have so much and everything else and maybe you want to do a little thing over here. Um, but no, the the short answer is no, I wouldn't. I think you you have it um in a good spot. Is are they in mutual funds within the 401k?

>> Well, I don't think I think I got to I got to pay taxes on all that stuff, I'm sure. Um I I think it's in a I got a mutual fund and a in a bank. I've got a couple of different styles, I guess. And and the ones are just through work. It's a a 401k, regular work 401k where they

match and stuff like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, I would um

Yeah. to just just to look in because retirement is coming up for you to make

sure that what everything is invested in feels like a good spread. You know, we kind of always talk about four different types of mutual funds so that you have enough d um diversification. So, there's

growth, growth and income, international and aggressive growth. So, those are kind of the four buckets that you can look at um within the mutual fund space,

which is great. Um but no, I would just keep them in mutual funds. you'll get a better rate of return, lower fees, and

um yeah, and it and it is it's just it's it's just a better way to invest your money than being stuck in an annuity.

>> Okay. Now, I shouldn't look into rolling over into a Roth or anything like that.

How some people do that. >> Okay. Well, so for the I Yeah. So, for the IRA, how much is in the IRA versus the 401k?

>> The IRA has 117,000 in it.

>> 117. Do you have cash available to pay the taxes? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have 60,000 in my savings account, which is dumb. I know, but >> No, no, no. It's not dumb. That's like good emergency funds. >> Bill, I've never met somebody doing so good who thinks he's doing so bad.

>> Well, I'm by I'm by myself and I'm pretty scared about retiring. >> You're doing really good, Bill. Yes.

Yes. >> Well, I would look to see um Yeah. I mean the Roths conversion there is a tipping point of if you have too much and depending on tax bracket everything that it's may not be worth it but for a lot of time it is worth it um to start rolling over even if it's a little bit each year um so I would still keep some

cash on hand that's your emergency fund and you may need less than 60 I don't know but you you could use some of that I would um I would contact a smartvetor pro bill um their their advisors yeah

that recommends and they probably will not be pitching annuities and all that.

So, they'll be able just to look at your situation and really help from a strategic perspective with your money

where you are um to help kind of guide the next steps. So, I really would so check out our um a smart investor pro uh one that's in your area um because they will be able to have they have a heart of a teacher. They'll be able to sit with you and really look at this and dig into the numbers. But I'd say no to annuity and yes, probably start rolling over to a Roth, maybe cash flowing some of the taxes.

>> Yeah. And Bill, thanks for the call and Christian will help you find that information on the website where you can find some smart investor pros in your area. Not a fan of your financial advisor uh because they're selling you a bad product. And remember on this, you want to understand everything so that you're not feeling alone and scared.

and the right financial adviser, you're going to go, "Oh, I know exactly what I should do and when I should do it, why I should do it, how, and I'm calling the shots." And so, that's why we want you, that's your homework assignment. Have a couple conversations and and move to somebody that you feel really, really good with that they're teaching you, not selling you. Uh, Lucas is up next in Bangor, Maine. I think that's how you say that.

>> Hi, guys. So, me and my wife are both 22

and we have $65,000 in savings right now

and then a 3 to6 month emergency fund of

10,000.

Um, we've been kind of saving for a house as we're in an apartment right now and we were curious on what's a good

point to kind of stop aggressively saving because I'm not uh actually contributing to any retirement right now. >> Yeah, it's a great question. Um, so our rule of thumb when it comes to home buying, which you've done all the steps, which is to get out of debt, have a fully funded emergency fund, which you've done, and then save. For first-time home buyers, we save a 5% down payment.

You go as low as 5.20 is ideal, but I know that's a lot for people. Uh, but just to go ahead and get in.

down payment, when you look at the the house and how much it's going to cost, we want your payment to be no more than 25% of your take-home pay pay on a 15-year fixed rate. Okay? So, when you plug all that in, you can actually do this on um ramseolutions.com, the mortgage calculator. You can put some of these numbers in and figure out, okay, here's the the number for our home of what we can afford right now with our income and what we have saved. Uh, how much how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, we made 115,000 last year.

>> 115.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good for you guys. That's great.

Yeah. So, after taxes, your take-home pay, you guys are bringing in what?

Probably 9,000 a monthish.

>> It was more like And it's I have a lot

of overtime, so it varies every month.

It's usually about five to 6,000. Like

6,000 a month. >> H Did you guys get a bag a big tax return?

Are you going to >> um We ended up getting about $1,700 back

because my wife was a part-time student

for >> Sounds like a lot going to taxes. 115 and you're only Huh. Okay. Well, that is

what it is. So, yeah. So, I would be looking at what you're bringing home a month and you guys just look to see, okay, how much is a fourth of that take-home pay? That's what our mortgage payment has to be on a 15-year.

So, uh, but again, that mortgage calculator can help figure that out. And it may take a little bit of time, more time to save. I wouldn't go longer than probably two more years, Lucas, of not saving in retirement to be aggressive with this um down payment, saving for the down payment.

funding retirement. So it may slow down your savings, but you guys are 22. It's great to get in the market. Like when you are ready to get in, it's good to get in, but I don't want you to feel rushed to get in because you you guys have some time. >> Yeah. And and here's the thing. I I hear this and it's so fun to listen, you know, to young couples think about this.

there. I there is such cultural pressure

>> to get a house as soon as you possibly can because if not you're some sort of loser. >> Yeah. >> Is that still do you feel that that's still out there? I certainly believe millennials felt that.

>> Yes. I think it's le I I don't know. I could be wrong. I feel like it's less with Jin just because the market is so expensive versus >> so for them they're like it's I can't even consider. >> Yeah. It feels so big. Um but that's a

real thing. Even if you can't do it, so you're not expecting to do it, it still feels like you're behind.

>> Yes. Yes. >> And so I just want to point out because we have so this is awesome. We have so many young people coming in in the show.

Listen, it's it I it is a it is not easy

to get a house right now. You are not cuckoo. You aren't a snowflake. I feel that pain. Okay. But what I'm trying to tell you is is you aren't behind in the life category because of circumstances

outside of your control. >> Right? And so, yes, it stinks that you will have to wait longer and save more.

It does stink. I get it. But my point is, if you can just hang on >> and hopefully the the the market conditions change. >> Yes. And I'm running I just pulled up the calculator on my phone. Good. Sorry.

So, I was >> No, I knew you were This is good. >> I know. Yes. So, um but the down payment

Oh, I put 12,000. He had 65, right? Oh,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, home value. I did this quick, but 300 to

350ish they should be able to do. So, great starter home, >> Lucas. There you go. >> Um, but yeah, but you guys look in your area, figure it out, and just take your time. No rush, Lucas. No rush.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

All

right. Every once in a while, we love to get a baby steps millionaire on the line so that you can hear their story and make the connection to how possible it actually is. This is not a myth. These folks are not unicorns. They're real.

And Stephanie's up next in Phoenix, Arizona. Stephanie, how are you?

I'm nervous, but I'm good. Hi. How are you guys? >> We're doing great. Thanks for spending time with us. We really appreciate it.

>> Oh, thank you. >> And hey, nothing to be nervous about.

We're just going to ask you simple questions and you already got the answer. So, like you're going to get an A+ already. So, >> yay. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, tell us your net worth.

>> Um, I'm approximately 1.6 million.

>> 1.6 million. And what's the mix?

Um, it's my TSP and IRA, so my

retirement. Uh, I just paid off my house

right around the new year. >> Nice.

>> And my, uh, my various, um, checking and

savings account. >> Okay. Gotcha. Very good. Uh, and what is your income?

>> Uh, currently it's about, uh, 110.

>> Okay. What do you do?

>> I'm, uh, federal law enforcement.

>> Nice. Uh, now how much of the 1.6 million did you inherit?

>> None. >> Zero. >> Uh, zero. And we always like to ask, but I'm always afraid to ask a lady's age.

But, uh, because it's for the show, I feel like I should get away with it. Uh, how old are you, Stephanie?

>> 47. >> 47. My goodness, you're young.

Wonderful. You're so young.

>> Um, >> two and a half years from retirement.

So, I'm very excited. >> Wonderful. >> How many years? >> Two and a half. >> Wow. What are you going to do after that federal retirement?

>> I have not figured out what I want to be when I grow up, but I'm sure it'll come to me. >> Well, I've got a nice little fun gift for you. It's called uh Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's my gift to you today. It has the Get Clear Assessment in it. It'll be really fun for you.

>> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah, cuz you've got more to do and more money to make, but you're in great shape. Uh okay. Uh I assume you got your degree in some type of uh what? Law enforcement.

>> Actually, no. I I was a uh I was a young kid that had no idea what they wanted to do. So I had gone to school for my plan

was to become a lawyer.

>> So I went for uh pre-law >> and I got a degree in you government.

>> Okay. >> And then absolutely nothing with that because my current job does not require a degree. >> Yeah. Isn't that something? What was your GPA?

>> Uh I think it was around a 3.1.

>> Oh, show off. I've never never, Rachel,

I never sniffed a 3.1. Never even >> know. I don't even know what mine was, honestly. >> Really? You strike me as a 3.4 person.

>> I'm more average than that. I'm going to go 3 point 3.2. I might be Stephanie. I might be a 3.1. >> Okay. All right. Very good. >> Yeah. >> Uh, okay. And, uh, Rachel, do you want to ask any questions here? I'm just rolling through our list. >> Yeah. No, I love it. Um, Stephanie, what do you feel like was one of the things that helped you the most to build wealth to be Yeah. become a a net worth millionaire? >> Um, >> um, I think I I really did look out. I I

got a really good paying job right out of uh college and it was um completely

unexpected. But as a you know 24 year old I started a job that um I was making

decent money about 40,000 and it offered a um a a way to start my retirement

account early. So I think that's really

what it was. And I've always been a person that's really I love seeing my savings grow. So that was always kind of

a goal for me to to see the savings get larger and larger. >> Yes. Yeah. That's a a motivator. The progress. Seeing that progress constantly was so good for you. >> What would you say to people who say $110,000 is not enough to make a living,

much less be able to become a a net worth, >> pay off your house. >> Yeah. You know, it's um

it's not easy because you have to say no and you have to you have to make decisions and you have to hold off on some things that you want and maybe maybe you can't get it this month or even in 6 months, but maybe in a year if you if you just kind of wait for it. And

um so yeah, I think it's absolutely possible to live on 110,000 and actually

be able to put stuff aside. You just can't go and buy everything you want at the moment. You You have to just hold off.

>> Yes. Living below. >> See, that right there is fascinating.

And I mean, you will find one viral TikTok a month or a week or a day on somebody screaming and freaking out saying he can't make a living and cannot live comfortably on $100,000. And I think you're the the answer you gave is so real. It's just delayed gratification

and discipline is what I'm hearing.

Yeah. I mean, it's it's not that I don't want nice things or that I don't get nice things. It's just sometimes I have to take that that second to talk to myself and go, "Okay, do I need that right now? I want it, but I don't I don't even need it.

I don't even want it like right now. I can I can hold off on it so I can >> Yeah. >> I don't have to put it on a card or anything. I can I can pay cash for that." >> You know what's crazy, too?

I find as time goes on, especially six months or a year later, you don't even want the thing anymore. Like it's, you know what I mean?

want it right now and you just get it.

There is no suffering and saying no to yourself, right? That's that's become uncommon. And so the fact that you've pushed through and that you're smart about your decisions about what you're spending and I do think there's something about that motivation of of seeing money grow in savings is um

that's a re that's real, right? I mean and I absolutely >> Yeah. And it's the in my opinion it's the it's the right way to lean versus I

would rather that excite me than all this new crap I can just buy and spend all my money on. Do you know what I mean? Which feels easier almost. Yeah.

>> Um, and so keeping all of that in check

is so big.

>> Well, and I got to I got to thank Ramsay so much. I started listening to the Ramsay show in 2018, and I really had no

plan to pay off my house very early, but

that really kind of gave me the kick in the butt to to really push for it and

and start focusing on it and knocking it

out. But, uh, that's like that mindset

>> helped. So, I had the savings mindset to begin with, but actually paying off the house was was not something I was initially thinking, oh, that'll happen.

>> It's amazing. >> And you did it in 8 years from then from that point. >> And uh are you uh what what is the house

worth?

>> Uh currently the house is uh according to online, it's worth about 320.

>> Yeah. >> And I I bought it way back in uh 2007.

>> And you're 47 and you're about ready to What do you got? Two and a half years. You're going to have a really great retirement program, I'm hoping, from the government. >> Yes. Yes. I I I do I am blessed that

way. Yes. >> Fantastic. And then again, you're going to find another way to serve because you've got so much transferable skill and experience.

And that's why, by the way, I do want you to take the assessment. It's my gift to you. And as you start to read your results, it's going to give you a written purpose statement that is essentially a dream job description in the sense of I'm good at it. I enjoy it.

And it creates results I care about. Because here's the deal. Let's say that you just find something you really enjoy and you work until let's say 60.

top of all of this, Stephanie. My goodness. >> Yeah. So much. >> So I feel like you're too young to not

do something. >> Yes, it is. Now have some fun. Slow down.

Change up. You know, I get a lot of people come after me when I say things like retirement is overrated. And you know, they're missing the point, but I'm also bringing it on myself by making such a generalization. What I am saying is, listen, if you want to retire and be super active and volunteer and play shuffle board half the day, uh, go get a massage, that's fine.

I'm not saying relax. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to relax and have fun, but I'm still going to do something.

making a contribution and it mirrors work, whether or not it has a paycheck attached to it or not is not the point.

So yes, Stephanie, I I I say yes and amen to what you're saying there. And again, you're a young lady and you have a lot of time left. So, it's going to be really fun for you to be able to retire and kind of go into this next chapter like, you know, like really relaxed. And that allows you to make some really fun decisions because you have no fear.

>> Yeah. Well done, Stephanie. Way to go.

You're amazing. >> You're amazing. There she is, folks. So much. >> Stephanie, you didn't sound nervous at all.

And you did a great job. Thanks for sharing your story with us. Uh there it is. 47year-old lady, uh, making 110,000

a year, going to retire in two and a half years in a federal law enforcement job. All right. No glitz, no glam. Not a

huge amount of money. >> It's crazy. >> She's worth 1.6 and growing with a paid

for house. Folks, >> you think sometimes that we're just saying stuff to hear ourselves talk.

Stephanie is absolutely living proof.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else cruise is back March 14 through 21,

2027. Join the Ramsay personalities and

me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosml,

Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 43:2.

When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned. The flames will not set you ablaze. Our quote today from

Simone Biles. I'd rather regret the risk

that didn't work out than the chances I didn't take at all.

>> How about that? >> The Olympics. >> Yeah. Do you watch the Winter Olympics?

>> You know, I was out of town this week, so I haven't started. But I love I love it. I love >> Really? >> Yeah. >> More so than the summer Olympics.

>> Oh, >> I'm a summer guy. I'm picking summer Olympics. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I'm going downhill skiing, though.

>> Love watching. >> You like the downhill skiing. >> And of course the ice skating. I feel like that's >> I like the curling. Ah, >> it reminds me of botchi ball, but it's on ice. >> Yes, that's a that's a good one.

>> It's a very soothing sport to watch >> and very hard apparently, so it looks easy. >> I want to be the guy with a little >> with a broom. I think you I think you'd be very >> I think I'd be great with the broom. >> I think you would do great. >> I got to try that. Got to see if there's a local curling. >> There is in Nashville. They Yes. Yes.

And it's like a new thing. And you you do dinner. It's like a whole experience >> really. >> And then you go curling.

>> This is a new thing. Let me tell you what else is new. As we're wrapping up the show, remember that you can always ask your question at ramseyolutions.com

and get it answered the way we would answer it on the show. This is the Ask Ramsey feature at Ramseyolutions.com.

It's our own AI. It's free. So there you go. You can't get in on the phone to talk to us? No problem. Ask Ramsey's there. Check out the link in the show notes. Justin is up in Huntsville, Alabama. Justin, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are you doing? >> Well, we're doing well. And Rachel's got a topped off cup of tea. So, I mean,

things are good here in the studio.

>> Oh, yeah. Um, well, I I'm a little bit nervous. >> Well, that's why I told you about Rachel's tea. She's calm, so you you'll be calm. >> So relaxing. >> Oh, yeah. Um, >> what's your question? >> So, I'm I've moved down here recently

and um I'm at a job. I've been here since December. Um, I I've made a bundle

I'm 22 years old and I've made a bundle of of poor decisions uh financially

and I'm only about 15,000 in debt, but I

currently work a job at an electrical distributor and I make right around $16

an hour. It's like 1625 or something.

It's it's very low. Um, I left a

handyman business to move out here and

so I got an opportunity. I feel like I've been stressing financially, so I I've found an opportunity to work at a construction job. Um, making 18 an hour,

which I think could probably go up more.

Uh, he's saying he likes his employees to be 20 to 25 an hour.

>> Love that. >> But I'm struggling because I have an income problem and I want to get that resolved.

Um, but my boss where I work now has

been paying for my gas because I don't make enough to pay for my gas

with the debt that I'm in.

>> Okay. >> And I don't like I don't He bought parts

for my truck too that I I put on the truck and he doesn't know about this job

offer obviously and I don't know if it's morally or ethically right for me to take it like I owe him.

Well, if you feel like you owe him, then why don't you take this better paying job and then pay him that money back and he probably won't take it. This is a good man who knows that he can only pay you 16 an hour. Now, when you go to him,

you can say, "Hey, man. I' I've got this other opportunity and I need it and I'm so grateful for what you've done for me.

Um, but I know you can't pay me what they can pay me and I've got to take that job. I'm so grateful to you." If he gets mad about it, then you know that the gift wasn't a gift. It was just some

type of manipulation and whatever, whatever. Um, but if he's a good guy, and I suspect that he is, he's going to be like, hey, man, I totally understand.

Uh, or hey, um, I can get you to that, but it's going to be 6 months from now.

You know, it'll create a conversation, but let's just remove the moral ethical there. There's nothing immoral, nothing unethical about you taking a better paying job. that also has a ladder to

even much better pay. There's nothing wrong with that.

>> Yeah. And so one of the stipulations was

it's on a a a 1099 which I'm not used to

and I don't know that I'm ready for that. I literally have less than a dollar to my name in my bank account.

>> Let me let me let me address that issue.

Okay. You're talking about the new job would be $1099.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay, great. Here's what you would do. you would go talk to a legitimate tax pro and if you go to uh ramseyssolutions.com and just search taxpro, okay? Uh you can find local tax

pros in your area and go sit down with somebody uh or do your own research and go based on somebody who's making 18 an hour, 20 an hour, uh what's the tax rate, blah blah blah blah. This is not difficult. And then what you do is is when you get a check, it's $10.99, you're going to get the entire amount.

And so you take out a percentage of each check. You can do this. It's just you

have the mindset that if I get paid 2,000, $2,000 is not mine. It's $2,000

less. Let's take 20% is just a easy number. That money is the federal government's. They're going to ask me for it and I need to have it in savings.

It's that simple.

I just worry like I I I've never budgeted before and like I'm listing out all my stuff on Google Sheets and I just

I I stressed with with it.

>> All I'm hearing is reasons why you're

going to fail. And I don't know if you want me to just say, "Hey man, you know what? You're right, Justin. Most people would be able to do what I said, but I think you're a complete buffoon and you are incapable of doing this. You have convinced me that this advice will not work for you." But I'm not going to say that. Rachel, talk to me about budget.

>> Well, I was gonna say you're 22. You're learning adult skills, right? I mean, they don't teach they should be teaching this more. Uh, but they don't. And so, you're thrown into the real world. You're making money for the first time in your life. You made some mistakes.

Now, you're scared to death that you're you don't even want to move. It's almost paralyzed you to do anything because you don't want to keep making worse mistakes, but you don't know how to move forward. So, yeah, you you need >> I don't know how to get out of here. >> Yeah, you just need a Okay, a couple of steps. So, you need some goals, Justin.

So, my first one would be for you, which we'll get you, if you hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we'll get you a year of Every Dollar. It's our budgeting app that actually plugs in all of your entire financial picture. So, you'll do the onboarding. It takes probably 15 minutes. Plug in all your info into Every Dollar and then it has a set budget for you. It already gives you some categories. Some categories you won't need, so you can just delete them.

Then, there's going to be some you may need that's not on there, so you just add them. It's a very easy app. Attach it to your bank account, so you can connect your bank account to it. And every time you swipe your card or use Apple Pay or whatever it is, a transaction is going to drop in and you drag and drop it and you start to actually plan out and say, "Here's how much I'm spending on food before the month begins." You plan food, clothes,

gas, insurance, and you go down the line

and you say, "This is how much it takes to to live a life, right?" And you're going to do all of that minus what you make a month. And so that's the goal is to live within that income. And you're going to be able to do that very proactively. It's going to take about three months to really get it right.

So, um, so you'll start in Feb. I would start get it and start planning out March. I think my key for you would be next week. I want you to have a budget done for March.

So, you're looking ahead. Okay? You're going to have your March budget.

You're going to think, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know I spent this much year. I forgot about this bill over here. I forgot about that subscription. It's coming in. You're going have to be readjusting some stuff. April's going to get a little bit better. By May, it's really going to start working." Okay?

So, that's one goal. The second goal is I want you to get $1,000 quickly, Justin. In the next 30 days, I want you to get $1,000. So, I don't care if you do grocery delivery. I don't care if you're um doing part-time somewhere. I

don't care if you're selling stuff. I don't know what it is, but I want you to get a $1,000 as fast as possible. And if

you're doing those things, if you're planning your monthly income, you know where it's going, and you are seeing money in your account grow for the first time ever, even if it's a hundred bucks here and there, right? You're just watching it go up.

>> And then after that, it's like, okay, that's progress. You've made two huge progressions in your financial life. You have a plan for your money and you have your first savings. And then you're going to start tackling this 15,000.

What kind of debt is it?

Uh, it's mostly personal loans and and I

have probably uh let's say 9,000 in a

personal loan that I used to pay for my truck. >> Okay? >> And then about another 1,500 in credit card debt. >> Okay?

>> Um, >> so then you're going to work to pay off that 1,500 first. Okay? And if it's multiple cards, split those debts up. If it's 500 in this card, 1,000 on this, make them separate so you can attack small goals at a time.

Cut up the credit card. Be done with debt.

You're going to be fine, but you have to do these things. And we know you can.

So, we're cheering for you. We're glad you called in. Go, Justin. Go. And hey, to everybody else, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 65. Financial Stability Starts With Changing How You Think About Money | May 25, 2026


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And talking to someone can help. Go to betterhelp.com/ramsey for 10% off.

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author, my good friend Dr.

John Deloney. And so, we'll be taking your calls about life and money. So, give us a call. The lines are open at8825-5225.

And if you can't get through, because usually they're all booked up, keep calling, keep trying. You can even leave a voicemail. Uh, but we want to get to your questions. All right, so let's head off to Denver, Colorado. Starting us off this hour is Kevin. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. Hello. Hello. Um, uh, I I just had a few questions. Um you see

I am um I'm in the army and um I moved

here here recently. I am married. I'm 20 years old and uh I have my own house

back where I where I moved from and I am

expecting my wife is pregnant.

>> Oh wow. and she had she had to stop working and um see before the army we we

had an income of around we br we bring home around 10,000 a month and uh I

guess we got kind of used to that. Um, I have a newer vehicle and um, and you see

now now that she she's pregnant, she actually stopped working and um, we have

to pay rent here in Denver and um, well

close to Denver and then we also have to play our mortgage and then the vehicle payments. >> Okay. So, right now I'm I'm actually

losing about $1,000 a month consistently

every single month. >> Okay. >> And I got to I got to figure out a plan.

We do have a little bit of money in the bank, but I don't quite know what my first step should be. >> Are you um where I'm at?

>> Are you currently on base somewhere?

>> Yes, I am. >> You are. Okay. How much is rent? Do they charge? I mean uh >> Well, it depends. >> They do. They do. It's a It's um $2,000

even a month >> for base rent.

>> For rent? Yeah. Yep. Yep. For base rent.

It comes out of my paycheck.

>> What's your housing stipen?

>> It's uh they give me $2,200 and I

believe $75 and they take 2,000 out for

rent. >> Can you just use that for your mortgage?

I can, but then that won't I won't I I can't I I have to find somewhere else to live here and I can't go into the barracks because I can either live in the barracks or I can get BAH, which is the the the money for housing. Yeah, I can't pay for both.

>> I missed it. Where's your Where's your house that you own?

>> Tennessee. >> Okay. You got to put that on the market today cuz you're broke. Well, >> you don't have anything. There's more.

>> There's There's no well to it, brother.

You You can't afford it.

>> Um, >> and you got to sell your cars. >> You see?

>> Well, we have we have three vehicles. We have two paid off vehicles and one um

that's not paid off. It's a uh 2021. I I

owe 30,000 on it. >> What's it worth? >> We have >> What's it worth? >> It it Kelly Blue book looks for 40,000.

>> Then sell it. Sell it today.

>> Right. And then you pocket 10,000. And are the other two cars drivable?

>> Yes, the other two cars are driveable. A little bit older. >> That's fine. Yeah. So that and then Kevin, for the home, let's just pretend John's world is reality because I think it is what he just painted you was this of selling the house. How much how much would you guys walk away with because of equity in the home in Tennessee?

>> If you were to sell it today versus what you owe, what would you walk away with?

Well, I built the home myself when I was uh 18. I started it at 18. It's a barnaminium, and the living quarters was done and all of that, but it's not fully finished. And that's that's why selling it might not be a good move because if I

did sell it, I don't I'm not even sure if I can get what I owe out of it because it's not fully finished. Because it's not finished. >> I owe 200. >> I owe I owe 212,000.

When are you going to finish it? >> My >> Well, um I was hoping to take leave in the here in the next few months and go home and finish it, but that leaves me with I have right now 30,000 in the

bank. >> Um I also have a a motorcycle that um is

paid for and it it it's worth around

10,000 as well. >> Okay. >> So I if I if theoretically if I sold that >> I might be able to come up with 45 or 50. >> Okay. So my Okay. Yeah. So, if you sell the car, you get 10,000 from that. Sell the motorcycle, 10,000. Um, you have 30,000 in the bank. Yes. That puts you at $50,000. Do you have any other consumer debt, Kevin? Any uh student

loans, credit card debt, personal loans, anything?

>> I do not know. Okay. >> Just my mortgage. >> And you guys are $1,000 in the hole every month is what you're telling me with this mortgage?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. And why did your wife Why did she stop working? Was she like se severely ill from the pregnancy?

>> Well, that originally. Yes. But then we actually moved from Well, she I I she

moved from Tennessee to here in in Colorado. Okay. And um when is she job?

>> She is due in September.

>> Okay. I mean, it sounds harsh, Kevin,

but I mean, I I worked up until 38 weeks, and if she's if she's medically able to versus like on bed rest or something from like a medical perspective, she needs to be working.

She needs to be at a coffee shop. She needs to be at I don't I don't care where it is because you guys need a $1,000 a month. And she could bring that. She could bring that for for the foreseeable future until she has the baby.

And then in September, you guys got to look up and say, "Okay, we got to we got to figure out how we're going to get $1,000." cuz you can't stay in this and you can't keep grabbing from your 50,000. If you do that, it's obviously eventually it's going to be Yeah. It's going to be gone.

>> What's your mortgage payment every month?

>> It is 1,500 even.

>> Okay. I I'm I'm just telling you what I would do if I was in your seat. >> Money is just getting thrown. There's no Yeah, >> brother. you like you're in a very solvable problem. The challenge before you is and I'm use this word to be provocative, okay? But you have a fantasy about your life and it feels good to have always have this place in Tennessee that one day I'm going to dot dot dot and then one day after that I'm going to dot dot dot.

What I want to do is bring you out of that picture you've painted for yourself down the road into your current situation right now. You happen to be sitting on a couple of lottery tickets, a $10,000 one that you sell a motorcycle, a $10,000 when you sell a car and you got a new baby coming and you live on base and like if I would

take 20,000 bucks and pay somebody in Tennessee to come finish this place out and put on the market and pocket >> $200,000 in equity. It's a it's a great point, Kevin, to listen to John in that because the 18-year-old that was two years ago before you were married in the army with a baby and a baby on the way. Your life has changed, Kevin. >> And the sooner you can reach that reality, the more stability you're going to create financially in your family.

And it's not worth it. And you can always go and do something great. It's not like you can never have a far.

>> Let me just tell you, dude. I've got a place on some land in Tennessee. And actually, it's being worked on right now. Rachel Cruz's husband is working on it. Like, he's the GC on it.

>> And it's awesome. And it took me 20 years later than I thought it was going to. And let me tell you, it's it's awesome. And the best part, it's mine.

And nobody could take it from me.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something. Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. And they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. >> That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Up next in Indianapolis, we have Grant

on the line. Hi Grant, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

>> So, uh, recently I have gone to a bit of

debt because of online blackjack.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And I was curious what's the best way to go about a mindset shift and the best way to attack this debt.

>> It's a lot. That's a That's a growing um

Yeah, a growing thing that we're seeing is online gambling, whether it's sports or not. How much how much debt is it?

>> Uh it's around 13,000 in credit cards.

Okay. >> I also owe 5,000 on a car and 2,000 in a

personal loan. >> Okay. Uh are you married?

>> I am not. I am single. >> Okay. >> How old are you, brother?

>> I am 23. >> Okay. Um,

I I I don't think a mindset shift is going to help you here. Um, and I'm going to

tell you like I'm biased, okay? I'm just

watching online gambling destroy a

generation of men, especially young men.

And when I say destroy, I'm not saying that um I'm not saying that flippantly.

It's melting people. And so I

you used to have to go to Vegas to gamble. You used to have to it's it's like you can just get cocaine in your pocket now, right? And so I I would at

23 if you were my friend, if you were my son, um I would tell you to go see go to Gamblers Anonymous, go to a meeting and

start treating this as seriously as I think you should.

>> Yeah. No, definitely. I've had a lot of family and friends be there for me, but they they're not experts. They >> Yeah. >> They keep telling me the same thing.

>> Yeah. And if those closest to you love you enough to say, "Hey, you need to go see somebody or you need to go get a handle on this thing," then let them love you in that way. And um

>> we could spend a whole a whole one hour show, a whole three-hour show on the ins and outs of addiction. Just know this.

Um, I I like when I'm watching the fights with my buddies, I like I'll put five bucks on this guy. I like that.

It's fun. And when Rachel and I go to Vegas, like I like to go to blackjack tables and stuff like that. I intentionally don't have it on my phone because the folks who make those apps,

they're better than me. They just are.

And they know how to hook you. They're designed to keep you on them. They're designed to incentivize you to never put them down. And now with prop bets, man, you know this. It never ends.

Yeah. >> Right. So, all I have to say is a >> ton and until I lost it all.

>> Yeah. And you're you're up just knowing you're up against a machine that is

designed to eat your soul. And when you when you recognize that, I mean, that's one of the 12 steps. I'm powerless, right? I can't I can't defeat you. So, I

can't go to this bar anymore. The problem is the bar is in your pocket now. And so deleting all the apps today,

getting this debt squared up and then going to Gamblers Anonymous meetings and make it a regular part of your life for a season. It won't be forever, but make it a regular part of your of your life for a season and begin to answer the question, what am I trying to distract myself from? Right. Why am I not okay in my own skin? And the pathway through that is honesty and openness in front of other people. And um there's no hack around that. Right.

>> Right.

Grant, how much >> I mean? >> Um, >> sorry. >> From the just the financial side, I'm curious. How much do you make a year?

>> Uh, I make 68,000. I'm an accountant.

>> Okay. Um, and you have 5,000 on your

car. Is the personal loan was that did you take that out and use for gambling, too, or is that for something else in life? >> That was help me pay my rent this month because it got that bad. >> Okay. Gotcha. Yep. So, I'm wondering from the financial aspect, and John obviously can talk um so much about that that addiction side, which actually I kind of want to loop back to in a little bit, John, but um but for you, Grant,

what it would look like to get a handle and some quick wins financially in the in the positive realm because it's been such a negative connotation with your money with all this debt and the stress that this whole gambling world has caused. um that I'm wondering some quick wins for you financially and how that's going to I think give you some some confidence of moving at least in the right direction right some of that action um because it is you have to

change obviously and be aware and all

that with the addiction side but I also think like right some positive movements going forward so um I think getting on a

detailed budget and I think cutting some things out lifestyle-wise just to get some margin this month cuz to pay your rent, right? Um just to get your head above water, I think is going to be really good. And then start paying off some of this debt and maybe you're working extra, you're working weekends, you're working nights, but you're really shifting your energy uh towards the positive side of finances, which is actually going to look more sacrificial.

The positive brings the sacrifice, but I want that for you. I want you to get ahead of this from the financial aspect, you know, as you kind of tackle the the that emotional side of it, John, because we see this Grant, you're not alone. The

the growing from like the sports betting to the gambling, I mean, all of it, it has grown so much because of online. And what like I know there's probably not one source, but what would you say for people listening, John, that is are just like grants? Like what is that thing? Is it that yeah, you're just not comfortable in your own skin.

You're having to find excitement somewhere else. It's going sideways. like what's the >> I I think it's um and and Grant, jump in here if if any of this doesn't sound honest. Okay, it doesn't sound right to you.

But Rachel, I think we're at this weird apex of of humanity, if you will, where we don't have to solve for basic things anymore, >> and there's a sense of aliveness that has left all of our bodies, right? I hear this a lot with married couples who would classify themselves not in a great but in a fine or or good marriage and somebody has an affair. Yeah. >> And what they always come back is I felt alive again.

I felt 22 again.

Grant graduated from college got his first accounting job goes to work comes home goes to work comes home and you begin to just get that your life gets gray >> and then all of a sudden >> there's like a there's a hit over here.

>> That's right. this excitement and then so this this crossroads here of all of

us are dead in our own skin and then you throw into well I'll solve it right we don't we have an allergy to boredom we have an allergy to routine and then now we got these magic wands in our pocket man that can take us on any ride pornography um dating uh swipe rights to online

gambling and it's just it's destroying us right does that ring a bell Grant

>> no that sounds 100% I mean

I would say it started out with uh kind of what you were saying earlier. I like to throw five bucks on the sights. Like >> yeah, >> it's just something I like to do. And then >> got my first job and then we just wrapped up the busy season obviously with tax season wrapping up and it was just go to work 10 hours, come home.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then eat food, go to bed.

>> Yeah. And >> you get on that repeat cycle bring >> Yeah. >> Yeah. you're one one of the one of the paths out for you and by the way this is a nightmare. I'm not saying it's going to be easy is I want you to start being intentional about making some friends some real and I'm in my 40s and I've had

to go do this as a as a discipline. Um

I'm going to go put myself in situations where I'm going to be with other people in the real world doing real life things and not sitting around singing kumbayana coffee shop. That's what I'm talking about. But like something silly like I'm going to join a bowling league or I'm going to go do Toast Masters or I'm going to start a Saturday lawn business with a with a kind of a friend and we're going to become friends. But you got to put yourself I'm going to join a softball league.

I'm going to go to comedy club. I'm gonna do something where I have to rub shoulders and do a thing with other people because the days for you as a 23-year-old, your whole life has been curated from the time you're in kindergarten to middle school to high school and then in college you were with the people in your own major and then you graduate man.

That's right man. So, man, hey, we're going to we're going to hook you up with the Every Dollar app, and it's a budgeting tool. I think it's the best one out there, but it's a tool that you can use to get a handle on your money on on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, and beyond. Um, and then, yeah, be be real brave today and make a call and go to a meeting this evening, and then get up early tomorrow and go to another meeting in the morning.

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Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it?

Well, that is normal. And you guys, normal sucks. You know, being normal in America today with your money, it's it's broke. It's paycheck to paycheck.

And we don't want that for you because you don't have to live that way. And our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find extra money every single month and build you a personal plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes through some of the questions, kind of investigating your life, if you will, uh you can find thousands of hidden in hidden margin. So you will feel like you got a raise.

We are here to help expose not only your financial habits uh but also places that you can save money so that you can find margin so that you can get out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle.

live like no one else. So start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing good. How can we help today? >> So, I recently got married and um we

actually found out that we are expecting a baby at the end of December.

>> Oh, congratulations. Christmas baby.

>> But it's thrown a big wrench in things because we were on this debt payoff

journey and unfortunately now we're

going to have a lot of expenses that's going to eat up a lot of our income.

So currently, um, my husband and I make

about $170,000 combined per year, and luckily I just

landed another job, which in a few months, it's going to bump me up about $17,000 extra, which is great.

>> Mhm. >> Um, but we have about $189,000

in debt.

um about 24,000 in credit cards, about

17,000 in car loan, and about

150,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. What's your degree in?

>> I have a master's in business administration. >> Okay.

So right now, you know, on paper it looks really good that we make decent money, but our minimum debt payment and

our bills alone per month eat up about

$5,500.

>> And now, even though I'm getting this extra raise, by the end of the year, I don't have the ability to kind of stay home. So, we also have to add in um

average daycare costs per month for a newborn where I live is about $2,600 a month. >> Yeah. >> That we're going to have to add in along with other, you know, costs for the child and groceries, which then decreases our amount that we have left over per month. Y >> which usually we put towards debt. So

now it's kind of my husband and I are,

you know, in a spot where we're not really, we don't really know what to do.

We're not agreeing. It seems like a really bad time to have a baby and we just don't know what to do. >> Yeah. >> It's an awesome awesome time to have a baby. Okay.

I I'm serious. It's awesome.

>> Yeah. >> And I know it's scary. It's awesome.

Okay. >> I was going to say we don't ever stop anyone from getting married or having babies. like the the debt stuff is important. Don't get me wrong.

>> No, no, I hear you though. But you're also like, "Wow, that uh that paused the plans that we were so dead on." >> Um, okay. What was Because it sounds like you guys were on track, as you said, we were we you were in quote unquote the journey before you even found out you were pregnant. Had you guys estimated a calendar date when you would be debtree, when all $189,000

was going to be paid off? Well, my husband was using that Every Dollar app very religiously, so he's kind of he was

kind of more in tune with our debt payoff. Okay. >> Um but obviously some things came

unexpected, which you know, unfortunately, we had to put certain expenses on a credit card, which increased the balance again.

>> And sometimes it just seems we take five steps forward and then 10 steps back.

>> Let me challenge you on that. What what happened that a couple making $170,000

had to solve right away via credit card?

>> Like why did we have to put something on a credit card? >> Yeah. What happened that popped out of nowhere that that y'all had to y'all had to solve right away?

>> We had an unexpected lawyer cost for a

custody disagreement with my son and my ex-husband. >> Okay. So, how much money was that?

$4,000. >> Okay. What I would love y'all to wrap your head around is this idea that we never borrow money. Period.

>> And here's what that means for y'all.

That means you get a bill and you say, "Cool. Next month, we're not going to send any over overage to debt and we're

going to take the $5,000 extra or the 7500 extra and we're going to pay this off next month." >> Okay. But what it what like changing your psychology around it because for y'all $4,000 is not an emergency because

you can solve it next month, >> right? And you would have got a 30 days past due notice and a threat, right? And y'all would have written a check and you would have moved on with your life. But psychologically, y'all, it feels like you went a hundred steps back, >> right?

I agree. >> So saying, "I'm never going to borrow money again." It keeps you calm when the world throws stuff at you because you're like, "Well, that's not an option for us." So, y >> I can pay you 2,000 this month and I'll pay $2,000 next month and we'll be good, right? You get what I'm you get what I'm getting at?

Yeah, you can call me next month and we can have this discussion but I have no money. like I'm done. Like it was that like I know people are going to be pissed and I people are going to threaten whatever whatever but we are not >> borrowing money and so it does it forces this you need to >> slow down. >> Yes. this this kind of extreness and then what I think it does too Elizabeth in some cases forces some level of

creativity where the credit card there's no you know that's not creative it's just sitting there and you can just use it right but it's actually like oh crap well is there something we can sell could you do x y and z overtime like right it actually forces you to come up with solutions and so there's a there's a mentality there that yeah John John is spot on >> can I ask you a question Elizabeth and I want you to say no you've missed the mark completely and I'm all good Okay.

Is there any of this with the divorce from the past, quote unquote, and I'm saying this in air quotes, your student loans, and now quote unquote, you're pregnant. Are you feeling some guilt here?

>> Cuz if you are, I want you to let that go.

>> Yeah, I don't really feel guilt as much because don't get me wrong, I used to be a compulsive spender. So, I've been able to pay off like 70,000 in credit card debt over the last couple years. Oh my gosh. >> So, my husband is really kind of cuz because he is very follows Dave Ramsey to a tea, listens every day, wants to follow the steps and I'm kind of adjusting my way into this. And now

we're at this point where we were getting on a little, you know, we're going on our journey and then all of a sudden something gets thrown into it that kind of we don't really know how to navigate straight through it.

>> Yeah. and Elizabeth um to the he'll know this if he's like an avid listener because we talk about this a lot that when you are pregnant and you are specifically on baby step two you're paying off debt because if you're doing it you have $1,000 and that's it but if you are expecting a baby we call it stork mode where you do want to put cash aside to have a bigger emergency fund during this and some people have a dollar amount they go to and they go back to the baby step some people just take the whole pregnancy and just stockpile money and then when baby's here and you're good and baby's good they take all that money and throw throw it at the debt and just pay off a ton, you know, within that next month.

Um, so depending on what you guys want to do, but I will tell you, you guys need some savings though for this for this pregnancy. >> Yeah, we only have the $1,000 in our emergency fund right now. >> So, that's going to be your your goal, I think. And you guys can again, you can pick a number that you want to have.

Um, or you know, again, or you just say, "Yeah, between now and the rest of the year, we're just going to stockpile money on the side. We're good with that." And then you press play to to pay everything off.

>> Yeah. Even my husband is like, "Maybe we should sell our car. Maybe we should do this." I'm like, "Okay, let's I get some back." >> I don't think it's as dire as you think it is. Even close.

I think this was just an adjustment to your picture that y'all had. >> Yeah. But hey, if he could get 23 for the $17,000 car, sell it and go buy a 5,000. I take 17,000 away, right?

lady that's been pregnant to a lady that is pregnant, having some cash above a thousand is going to be going to bring you some peace. And then I think that's going to put you more on that journey to pay this off off and attack it. But I'm glad you guys are working together and yeah, and that you're quote unquote adjusting to the Ramsay way. I like that.

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All right, let's go to Jim in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Jim. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I have a uh a question for you guys. So, I've been working the baby steps. Um, I

went through a divorce about 5 years ago. I racked up some debt and I am

about a month away from being able to pay off uh the last of my consumer debt.

>> Oh, wow. Congratulations, Jim.

>> Thank you. Um, and you know, now that

the light is kind of at the end of the tunnel, um, my ex-wife just notified me that she's moving out of county. Um, it's about an hour and a half away one way. We have 5050 custody right now >> and her plan is to commute the kids back

and forth. Um, which it's not really going to work.

That's a lot of time for them to spend in a car every day. And so I've been

looking for legal advice and every attorney I talk to wants a retainer. You know, I have my $1,000 and I just don't,

you know, they're all telling me they accept credit cards. I don't know how to pay for this. I don't know how to navigate it. I don't feel like it's it's not like I'm buying a new car or something. I just don't know what to do.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I would let them know your situation. And how long would it take you to get 5,000 bucks?

>> So, right now I I've been saving about

$1,000 a month. >> Okay.

Um >> that's been going towards your debt.

>> It's all been going towards the debt. Yeah. >> Yep. So, you have about $1,000. Okay.

How fast is she going to be doing this move? Do you know?

>> Uh yeah, it's going to be within the month. Um school is just ending. Yeah.

>> And she's also quitting her job to live

with a live-in boyfriend and requesting an increase in child support.

>> Yeah.

Um the best option I could give you is to sit down with an attorney and say kind of tell them what you're doing. um and that you're I mean literally say the words I'm use I'm paying off my debts from my last thing from my from a I'm on the Ramsey plan and most of the time

they'll roll their eyes or they'll laugh and you could say here's my payubs I will get you paid. Um but this is timesensitive. Um

but man you're I mean it I'm just telling you as a dad I would go to the ends of the earth to keep this from happening. M. >> So, I as a guy who's sitting in the Ramsay chair right here, um I wouldn't

beat you up if you went over to a credit union to pay that.

>> I can't tell anybody to borrow money, but just because it's got so many downstream consequences, but someone's trying to take your kids. Someone's trying to break the law and take your kids. Yeah. >> And there is a there is an entry fee to that >> because I know every state is different, right? But county to county, you can't do that, right? Like she is >> I mean, is she violating the divorce decree?

So, the divorce decree did say that you're we're not supposed to move out of county without notifying the other parent, which she did. Um, and it it's not so much that she's an unfit parent.

It's just that that's a huge burden to put on the kids. Uh, especially with moving one of them's in high school and the other one is starting junior high school. >> Yeah. Would you be willing to take 100% custody?

>> I would be willing. Yes.

>> Okay. >> Because I'm just wondering when you get a lawyer on your side, is there going to be something that they can do? You know what I mean? Or or like >> is it in, you know, the divorce decree that it's like, well, there's nothing there's nothing legally that you can do.

>> Yeah. >> Or is there originally we had agreed on

custody, so that part of it was was pretty amicable during the divorce, but now it just doesn't seem like a real a

real possibility with that much distance between us. >> Sure. Do you have anybody um

>> and I'm always again I I live in such a Gonzo world, brother, that the most of the people I sit down and talk to, whether in my personal life or on my show, like it's because they're in a in a tough season, something bad has happened. But man, there's the data on living boyfriends and kids is no bueno, right?

Um >> so he would have a case to fight is what you're saying. >> I would I'd fight it to the ends of the earth. Um, when you've sat down with attorneys and discussed them taking you on, have they told told you you have a shot or not? Most attorneys will be honest with you.

>> I I have been told that they they think I have a really strong case and that's immediately followed by we need 5,000 now and another 2,000 and 30 days.

>> Right. That's usually what I hear is a $5,000 retainer. Do you have a friend that can write a letter just to stop the move at this point or No.

>> Um, no. She's actually already moved

most of her stuff. Um I was sort of the last one to find out about it except I had a heads up from the kids. >> Okay. >> Um Oh. >> And so I >> Have you told her I'm going to go fight this in court?

>> I haven't. She She expressed that she wants to try to do it outside of court, but provided that she gets an increase in support. >> Yeah. But she's not I mean she's trying to hold you hostage and that's not going to fly. Yes. >> Um Yeah, she's living in a fantasy world.

Are y'all able to sit down and have coffee?

>> Um, >> actually, you know what? I wouldn't do that. I would send I would send it via email. I would keep all my communication in writing.

>> Um, but I would let her know the terms or and I would put what she has asked you for. You're trying to get a an increase in in child support for to

trade an increase in child of money for me to have time with my kids and I reject that. and you didn't give me due notice of when you were moving out and I'd like I would put all that in writing and let her know that you're contacting an attorney and to hold tight.

>> Okay. >> Um Yeah. >> Yeah. You're not crazy, brother.

>> No. And especially when it comes to our kids, it's like a child that's sick or something. You're going to do whatever you can to help your child, right? I mean, like there's >> there are those moments.

Um Yeah. So, I would say fight the fight.

legal world with fees and attorneys and so >> if she's quitting her job and ask in moving into somebody with somebody who has no rent and asking you for an increase. She doesn't have any money either, does she?

>> No, she she will have none. And she's going to be totally reliant on this guy that she's not married to. And I I wonder what happens the first time they have a fight.

>> Yeah. And it's not a stable home for your kids, of course, and you know that.

But she doesn't have $500,000 to fight you >> to keep you in court is what you mean.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. >> So, her family does have money. And I've had people tell me, "You don't need an attorney for this. You can do this on your own." And that was my plan initially, but I realize I'm so emotionally like involved in this. I just don't know >> if that's a good idea or not to try to do it on my own.

>> I I I just know too many trust pe I know too many of my personal friends who've gotten burned trying to do things on their own. And I know too many um great

attorneys who make it their life's mission to take care of people in your exact situation. someone who's getting taken advantage of and the kids are the fulcrum of that of that taking advantage and man they just make it their life's mission to make sure kids are taken care of and that's what you're trying to do here you're not I don't even hear one ounce of vindictiveness in your spirit I hear you want to take care of your kids sad >> and do you think if I mean now I'm just

I feel invested in this story do you if

you pushed her from a legal standpoint or if you chose outside legal counsel would she give you majority custody do you think to keep the kids close to their school and from a lifestyle perspective or do you think she'll fight you on that?

>> I think it's money is her motivation right now. >> Um, and I don't even want anything from

her. I just want the kids. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> But it doesn't make any sense that she's trying to bargain with her kids and try to give you more time with them, but she wants money. Like that doesn't make sense.

>> Yeah. And the kids have also expressed to her that they don't want to go there and she tells them she doesn't care.

>> Yeah. Of course. Yeah, brother. I I would um I would sit down with an attorney with with somebody that you've got some friends or colleagues that have used in the past that has a good reputation for being trustworthy.

And not just trustworthy that they're going to fight for you, but trustworthy they'll look you in the eye and say, "Hey, brother, I don't think you have a case." And the best attorneys I've ever sat down with have said, "I don't want to take your money because you're not you're not going to win here." Um and I always really appreciate that. Um, but yeah, I again I'm just telling you dad to dad and Rachel as a parent like we'd go to the ends of the earth for our kids >> for sure. And Jim, I think it's so wise on your part, so self-aware to be like, I'm so emotional right now that I don't think I could probably make great decisions.

I I need help. I need someone. >> And that's what we talk about. It's like, where can you outsource people that you trust to help you in situations financial and otherwise?

Um, Yep.

I'm assuming, by the way, I'm assuming that you're working this this Ramsay plan to a tea and that you've sold everything you can sell. Um, if I had guitars, if I had a car in the garage, if I had a writing loan, I'd sell everything I had to avoid going into debt. Um, >> but yeah, >> Jim, you're a good dad. >> You're a good man, brother. >> Yep. Uh, call us back if you need us, but we'll be praying for you guys. Um, yep. And pray that it works out for you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting with Dr. John Deloney this hour. So give us a call at

888255225.

All right, let's go to Daniel in Los Angeles. Hi Daniel, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how's it going? >> Hi. Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Question. Um, I'm 54, my wife's 53. Um,

need some help here. We're We want to buy a home. Um, business is bad right

now. Um, got about 31 $32,000 in debt.

Uh, income's not coming in the way it used to come in. Um, and so we're just looking for some hope. You know, being 54 and 53, um, we really want to buy a

home and be able to retire with with some wealth. And um >> what do you do for a living? >> Is really tough right now. I'm in the commercial truck business. I sell commercial trucks and right now it's it's slow. Um typically it's a very very very good business. Um talking about making over $300,000 a year.

>> But right now I'm at a about 108 um after taxes. I mean before taxes.

>> And um it's really expensive to live in

in LA, California. >> Yeah. And my my um my uh

my uh outgo on a monthly basis is about

eight grand a month. And uh >> towards what? >> It's expensive. I'm sorry.

>> What are you spending eight grand a month on?

uh car payment, uh rent, um

life insuranceances for uh being my wife, my daughter, uh car insurance, fuel, um food, um all the household

necessities. It's about equals about 8 grand a month. >> What's your total What's your total debt load?

>> Uh 3132 >> just on credit cards?

>> No, no, >> what's the car? Is it Is it 32? It's all just in car.

It's uh 28 in car and then a medical

bill. That's about $3,000 right now.

>> Okay. If you sold your car, what would you get for it? Private party.

>> I have no idea. It's a 2023 Dodge

Durango. >> Okay. >> I have no idea to be honest. I think we checked. I think I don't know to be honest with you. I've never checked. >> Okay. >> Probably you're probably upside down on it.

>> Yeah, I I think we are. And um I know things are going to turn around with commercial truck business, but um it's just bad right now, you know.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. Let me ask you that. Is is is there talk in your industry, is there writing on the wall here, or is it just with all the stuff going on overseas and the the

every business I know is talking about how AI is going to impact them and gas prices? Is that what's is that what's contracting your business right now? >> AI doesn't AI doesn't affect us. I mean, we're, you know, we deal directly. where it's it's um I deal directly with businesses with business people. Um it's just the market right now. It's just that coming out of CO it's been really really bad. Um >> but that was that was five years ago.

>> Yeah. And that's what I mean since coming out of CO it's been really really bad. It's >> during CO it was really really really good and we just haven't been able to turn around you know. I mean >> well my customers that call me.

>> Here's my big question then. as as a 53y

old, what I don't want you doing is waking up and being 58 and saying it's going to turn around when you had a chance at 53 to sit down with your wife and say, "Hey, we have some hard choices to make. A

>> do we have to live in one of the most expensive places on the planet and not

only is expensive just to live there, but then they also take half your paycheck every month.

>> Do we want to stick in this business and keep riding it out?" 108,000. So if you're at 108 at this, you know, in the in the middle of Q2 or at the beginning of Q2, you're going to end up at 200 for the year, that's a still a great salary.

It's just an adjustment from what you were mentioning. >> No, no, it's 108. It's 108 period for the year. >> Oh, for the year.

>> Yeah. >> So you've lost twothirds of your salary.

>> What's Well, the thing is I I I moved from the old dealership I was at. I'm in a new dealership managing it. Okay. The commercial department.

And so I required them to give me a guarantee of uh $12,000 a month for the first six months. And then the remaining six months after that $6,000 a month and then you know above that my commission a percentage of what I require. >> But but but here here's here's what I'm saying. You're a good salesman and if you if you know how to be a good salesman and you know how to lead salesman, you're going to have a job anywhere.

And if you've been struggling for five years, >> I'm just telling you as a guy, you're older than me, but not by a lot.

>> The hope is decreasing. >> Yeah. It's a time to sit down and have a really hard conversation and say, "Do we want to move to Texas where we don't have any we don't have any um state income tax or we want to move to Tennessee or Nevada somewhere and we're going to >> very hard to do because we have a special needs child." >> That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. >> We live with my in-laws.

>> We live with my in-laws. They raised them. My my wife when she was younger, she wasn't responsible. Didn't take care of her son. Um my in-laws are aging so

bad. They still watch him. But eventually, probably in about a year or two, they're not going to be able to watch him. So, Daniel, so I think what I think what's hard is >> what John's saying is if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting and we and you just don't want to look up >> three, four, five years down the road and you're the in the exact same position financially where you're not able to buy a home.

And so, if our goal is to get our head above water financially, if our goal is to be homeowners, if our goal is to retire with dignity, then at your age, you guys you guys got about 10 years, right? uh 10 to 15 depending on if you can work even longer to say we got to think >> about 15 >> we got to figure Okay so we got to figure this out. So if there are some non-negotiables that's fine right there's a non-negotiable we're not going to move is what I just heard you say. So, like as much as John and I would convince you to X, Y, and Z, you're like, "Nope, we're not." Okay, then what are some other negotiables?

I mean, the I tried doing Kelly Blue Book for you, Daniel, and I made me enter my email and all this stuff. I didn't know how many mileages were on your Durango. I was like, "Dad, damn it. I wish I could find the price for you." Because honestly, the last six months or so, people calling in the show, unless you rolled over negative negative equity, we actually are seeing some people are like, "No, I owe 23, but I can sell it for 30." I mean, you may be, I don't know, but look and see.

even 3,000 4,000 underwater, you can go

get a loan for 8,000 at the credit union, sell the car, go buy a $4,000 car, and get rid of $28,000 of debt.

Like, there's some moves you can make that can be very significant for you guys, Daniel. I mean, you guys are paycheck to paycheck. And a car payment freed up is what? How much do you pay on the car per month?

>> 800 bucks. Yeah. 83.

>> That's pretty uh that's pretty nice to get that back in your pocket, wouldn't you say? >> Yeah, absolutely. What?

>> And Daniel, think about this.

>> Like, I'm going to I'm going to round I'm going to round the math off. Okay.

>> Can I Can I add something? I I am

extremely good at what I do. I mean, very good. Of course. >> Um Um But right now, it's just bad.

However, and this is not It's kind of sad. I mean, obviously, we had eaten fires here a few years ago in California, and that's going to start picking up the market because of the fact that contractors start buying trucks and vans, you know, for because they're going to start rebuild. They're already rebuilding. So, >> sure, >> I know that'll affect the business in a positive way, but I'm just so

frustrated, angry.

>> Okay, you okay, but you got to act, you know? >> You got to act.

>> All right. And so like I can't I can't get I can't motivate you. You have to decide you want a different kind of life. And let let's run the math out. I'm gonna I'm gonna round the numbers off. But let's say you work for 15 more years and you make a h 100red grand. You're going to have $1.5 million.

750,000 of that's going to go to the state of California and 750 are going to be in your pocket to spend how you want to.

If that's okay with you, then so be it.

>> What are y'all going to do with that 750 50 grand? >> I don't want the I want >> I want more. Okay. And Michael Phelps is a great swimmer, but if I throw him in the middle of a raging river, it doesn't do him any good.

You can be the best person at your job, but if the market's gone, the market's gone. So take those skills and have the courage to go somewhere else. You only have hard choices ahead of you.

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>> Next up we have Cecil in Augusta. Hey

Cecil. >> Cecil.

Is it Cecil? I want to say Cecil.

I'm so sorry.

>> Yes. Hello. >> Hey. What's up, man?

>> Um, >> okay. Cecil, can I just say, can I defend myself for not reading it correctly? >> Rachel read your name as Cecilele >> because I literally was just having dinner with friends and their daughter, that is her name. And so, we were talking. So, when I saw it, I just went to there. I'm sorry. Forgive me.

>> It's cool. Ceciladel, I'm sorry. You're

a dude from Augusta. Hooked on phonics did not work. >> Talking to you. I got it. Whatever.

>> So, what's up, brother?

So, um, recently I've had a very large

string of unfortunate, um, situations.

My income has gone down drastically and my expenses have gone up drastically and

I'm just drowning and I don't know what what to do.

>> So, what happened with your income?

Um, so I did a lot of side work on the

like Door Dash gigs as well as I did a

lot of just handing help for people in

my area. And recently with the gas

prices and other things, I had to slow that down. >> Okay. And as soon as I slow that down and my income starts getting lower as well as some changes at my primary job where >> my income dropped significantly.

>> What happened there?

>> Oh, hey Cecil, can you can you speak

directly into your phone? Maybe step to where we can we can hear you a little bit better. >> Cutting out a little bit. >> Okay. Um, I had to take a class for my

work and I get a differential based on the weekends and my income went down by maybe $800 a every two weeks.

>> Did you fail the class?

>> No, I I passed the class, but the class isn't going to upgrade my income at all.

And I'm out of it now, but that led to

the downgrade >> just while you were in the class. But now you're out of the class. Can it go back up $800?

It has gone back up $800, but the rest of it has gone down. And also my car has gone out, so I can't even do the sides even a little. >> Okay. >> What do you do for a job?

>> I work as a CNA.

>> As a C >> uh like like a nursing assistant. Oh,

>> okay. Okay. >> A certified nursing assistant. Um >> my guess is >> that there's a market for that. Could you go get another job somewhere else?

Um, unfortunately not without my car.

My I have rides do my weekends because I

only need a certain amount. Um, I I

pretty much I work 17our shifts Saturday and Sunday. >> Okay. >> And then just one eight hour during the week. >> Okay. What What are you doing the rest of the week?

>> The rest of the week I am doing school work. I am in college to change my career into accounting.

Okay. How much school do you have left?

>> I just started. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> I'm 21. >> Okay. Um I don't think you can afford to

go to school.

>> I think you have to I think you have to be working 40 hours or or you go or you go at night and it takes you a little bit longer. >> Um but you got to put the you and I know you're putting the hours in on weekends, but the formula you have laid out for us. Um, and what it sounds like is without door dashing or having a side hustle, you're not able to pay your bills. Is that correct?

>> Um, I I'm able to I'm able to pay my bills, but the problem is my car my car

has gone out. >> Your car's gone out? Okay. So, >> what does that What does that mean with your car went out?

>> Uh, I I'm a mechanic also on the side

and it's something that I don't even know. Uh, it's a head gasket leak, but

there's also something else going on.

>> Have you gotten an opinion?

>> Yes, I have. I've gotten a couple. >> How much have they have they quoted you?

>> Anywhere from three grand to six?

>> Three grand to six. Okay. Okay. Um, and

and you don't have a car right now is what you're saying?

>> No. >> Okay. Um, and it's not running at all.

It's just it's done.

it it's done. I can't even take it anywhere. >> How much money do you have on the side?

If you're making all your payments and stuff, how much money do you have saved up?

>> I don't have anything saved up. I had a string of separate emergencies for healthcare. >> Okay.

>> Um Yeah. I mean, what I mean I mean at

this point it's >> it's extreme enough that I'm like, "All right. Uh, do you do you move in with family uh to save on rent? Do you do you

Uber to and from >> bring in a roommate? Uber to and from work >> from nursing. It's going to cost you your first hour of work there and your first hour of work home with that six hours in between. >> And if you're working 60 hours a week,

you know what I mean? Like you could this will shift pretty quickly. I just think you're just trying to do too many things at once and you're not able to get ahead. And so something has to give right now. So, I would do if you can do school at night. Don't go into student loan debt, though. Um, but if you're able to cash flow it through school, do it at night or press pause on accounting for now. Get your head above water. Get

an emergency fund. Get a car that is running and then out of a place of strength, make a change in a career or

to, you know, for school. Um, but it

doesn't sound like you're in a place to do that. You need to be working 60 to 70 hours. >> Yeah. >> Um, and again, Yep. If that's an Uber to and from until you till you save that, it may take you a month or two >> or to pay a co-orker five bucks to come pick you up and drop you off or whatever, pitching on gas or something.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And Rachel, we're getting this we're getting calls a lot over the last six weeks, maybe the last three or four months, where people want a a certain thing to be and it's not.

>> Mhm. >> And I've been there myself, you've been there. I want so badly for the car just to turn on. It's not. Or I want so badly to get a degree and get out of this current job I'm in, but I can't. Or I want this, but this is reality. And I feel like so many people right now across the country are just stuck.

>> They were living such thin margins and

suddenly student loan payment kicked in or suddenly the gas prices went up just past where they could keep floating their >> exposes everything. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Um or their jobs are cutting back hours or they can't they they just got a degree and AI has taken away the first bottom layer of hiring and so they can't even get into a position.

The reality is if you're faced with what I wanted to be true isn't anymore. The longer you stay there, the more anxious

you get, the more depressed you like that's just your body trying to take care of you. >> And man, Rachel, if I could tell people one thing, it's just take action. Yeah.

just take a step in a direction towards I've got to stop going to school. I don't want to be really grieve it. Grieve it like crazy. Or I've got to take on a third job or I'm going to have to start asking people for rides and I hate asking for anything or I got to start Ubering to work.

It's going to cost me an hour and a half of my workday to get there an hour and a half to get back. Okay, that's what I've got to do right now.

delaying what is real with what's right

in front of you for I wish it was different doesn't get you anywhere closer and in fact what we're finding is it's just putting you further and further behind. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think acknowledging the outside factors are very real, right? The changing job market very real.

The housing market very real. Um you know you could plug in the gas prices, right? I mean like you can plug in external factors that are happening but John the people we see that are winning and we've we're meeting them in the lobby. We have a great we have a great audience today.

They've been sharing a little bit of their stories. You know we have a caller on the debtree stage you know doing their debtree scream like I will say the common denominator with people and it and they don't always get there the first day stuff starts happening but the common denominator of people changing their lives is realizing I'm I'm the answer. Yeah. >> External factors are going to happen.

Things are going to happen that we can't control. Right. that is we became good friends. I feel like, you know, you started hear around the pandemic like during co and I remember you would say it all the time like control what you can control and during that time was a strong message >> but it still rings true today of like things are going to happen you guys.

The external factors are real. Maybe you started out in student loan debt and the person next to you didn't because their parents paid for whatever it is, right? Things are going to happen. But it's the people that look up and say, you know what, I'm in charge of my future and I have to make decisions.

I have to choose things that I don't maybe not want to do.

I don't want to sell the car. or I don't want to, but I'm going to choose to actually do something to the action. Put it into the action and actually start to see things shift. And so, it's up to you guys.

It really is. And those are the people that win, John.

>> Get to reality as fast as you can and take action.

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All right, let's go to Gerald in New York City. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Uh, first of all, reality, what a concept, right? Um, >> who would have thought? >> Who would have thought we make a job out of it? >> I have a shirt I have a shirt that actually says that. Uh, >> funny. >> So, I have I'm retired, 63 still. Um,

I'm set. Uh, house is paid for, no cars

are paid for, no debt, I have a pension,

social security, my wife still works.

Uh, so our investments are, if I'm

working with Fidelity, and the broker wants us to because I I made the mistake of saying that we don't plan on touching anything for at least 10 years. and he

he thinks we should be in 100%.

And that's that's really my question is is is it wise to really at where I am in

life and I did all the right things in life and I'm okay. And uh on top of

that, I should also say this. Um so I have like 450,000 in cash and uh and he

thinks we should put you know at least 300 of that into the market as well.

Well, my my first I I'll let Rachel talk about money. My first red flag is

anytime you're talking with having a relationship with a professional, whether it's an attorney, whether it's a tax person, or whether it is a an investment professional.

You should never think I made a mistake of being honest. Like that to me is a big red flag. If you can't sit down with your investment professional and say, "Here's what I want to do and here's what I'm thinking." Of course that you pay them to give you their opinion and their perspective, but they work for you, right?

>> That's just how I'm perceiving it.

>> Okay. >> Again, reality. What a concept.

>> Yeah. Right. >> That's not reality. That's just how I'm perceiving. Well, I think I mean you've done well for yourself financially and you've done well for yourself professionally. You're still married, so I would tell you that your gut is probably a pretty good got a pretty good uh um BS meter on it. What

>> how much you how much you have with him right now? >> Yeah. >> Uh a little under 600,000.

>> Okay. And what do you what is it invested in right now?

It's I was at 6040 and I just bumped it

up because I literally just met with him and I I >> 6040 meaning what? Be be more specific when you say 6040. What what are what do you mean? >> Well, I guess so. So, uh 40 I guess more

in in the bonds and the safe things.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. And what does he have you in in stocks? Is it like index funds, ETFs? What is it?

>> Yeah. Uh more index funds. index funds.

Okay. >> It's allid it's all fidelity stuff. I'm letting them manage my money.

>> So they are definitely charging me for that. I am quite aware of that. There is >> Right. I mean I do the same thing. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, what's um when I'm running

these calculations um what's crazy is if you just left it

if you if you had transferred the four the 40%. Yes. We I would not recommend having money in bonds and sudies. I have zero dollars in bonds >> unless you're a 98-year-old and you're like it just makes me sleep better at night. I'm like that's great whatever at that point. But you're a young 63 and so I just did a quick calculation. If you had that 600,000 and you just left it alone like you said maybe use some of it but just what what it could grow to by the time in 25 years

it'll be 7.2 million if you went quote

unquote aggressive meaning it was just in the market which isn't even necessarily aggressive. you could do um more aggressive type funds, but if you are if you're just in, you know, the S&P

500 and index funds and all of that, like it's it's pretty wild where it will grow. And CDs, some of them, depending on the rate, won't even keep up with inflation. So, I'm with him. I would not do 6040. I'd do 100%. And then,

>> which is what they were saying. >> I would do that's Well, that's what I do. That's what D mean that that is >> Dave's a little bit older than you and that's how he does his. >> Yeah. I'm not telling you anything different. Um, so I would >> I'm glad Dave's not here today because I I would have been nervous talking.

>> He would have been proud of you, Gerald.

You've done so well. >> Yeah, you've done great. >> You've done so good. Okay. The the four the >> I worked my whole life, it doesn't mean I don't have uh fears.

>> No, it's fair. >> I'm scared of him, too.

>> My question is my question is Gerald, if

you if you guys don't really necessarily need to touch that money, is that because your wife still plans on working or you guys can live off of social security? I have a pension. I I have a pension and social security. I bring in 10,000 a month and then my wife is still working for at least another few years. She's bringing in 2500 a month.

>> Okay. >> Everything is paid for. Yep.

>> Um so you don't need the money is what you're saying. All the right things kind of in in life. I did most of the right

things in life. >> Yeah. It's great. I mean, I have a lot of cash and you know, I don't want to use names or anything, but you know, I heard someone say until uh, you know, our president is out of the out of the office, I would keep cash because cash is going to be king when everything drops.

You can jump in and drop it and then >> I mean, we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know. >> Nobody does. Nobody.

>> No, because it did go down after the IR and now it's back up and above what it was. So, I'm like, no. Yeah. I both >> um I think that the longevity of investing takes out these weird little dips and stuff that we get because of an administration.

I mean personally >> and I like cash. I I I have more cash than normal and it has nothing to do with anybody in office.

>> Okay. >> So Gerald, >> you got to do what you're comfortable there. I guess with that aspect.

>> Yeah. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we have we have probably the six months or more just in the regular savings. >> Okay, Gerald. >> I have my cash is in AMX and in in the money market. >> Wait, hold on, Gerald. Let's let's let's wipe everything clean for a second.

Okay, >> if you lost all of your investments, it went to zero and you looked up and your cash went to zero.

You have a paid for house, paid for vehicles, a pension, and social security.

Yes. >> Here's what I'm telling you. Here's what I'm telling you that >> you did good.

>> You did good.

>> Okay. Here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a 63y old guy who is waking up every morning and saying, "What's my purpose now? What do I do?" >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. And if you get up every morning and you fret over your money, you're a millionaire. >> I'm not doing that. I'm not going to do that. >> Okay. Then you're going to have to do something. You're gonna have to join a bowling league or join some weird club

in like in New York. You're gonna have to do something, right? Get a group of guys to go throw seed at pigeons. I don't know what you do in New York, but like but like listen, you got to have to get a gang. Otherwise, you're going to like your body will fall off a cliff.

And I'm being serious. >> No, you're right. I work out every day.

>> I know, but you work out alone. You work out alone. >> I want You got to get >> Well, you should. If you saw my gym, you would understand why >> because I have a gym at the house. I I am not I am we did things right. That's all I'm gonna say. >> I'm internally grateful. It's because of my beliefs and everything that just I feel that >> I know. I know. I know. But listen on this call, Gerald. You've told me I think I've done everything right enough.

That leads me to believe you're still wondering if you did everything okay. If you're if you did a good job. >> And so I'm telling you did a good job.

And I'm telling you, you've got at least 20 years left, if not 30.

And so >> they better be going for that 100% and and stop messing around. >> Well, your money, yes. But right now, you're fine financially. You're more than fine. >> If you didn't, if you do nothing, Gerald, you're fine. If you do nothing, >> you do nothing. You're good. You're good. >> I want you I want the next 30 years. I

don't want you sitting on a couch with your phone out checking internet articles and fretting over your money.

Hey, I want you out having fun.

>> Yes. And from the financial aspect, I want more bang for your buck and I think you could be making a tons more in the market. So, I would I would move that 40 over. So, if you did nothing, that's fine. But I think you could be way more efficient financially by being in there.

So, uh Yep. in the market. And then if you want to keep on to the 450, >> that's a lot. >> It's a lot. >> Maybe a quarter million you could scratch by. Right. >> That's right. >> And then go get it, gang. Go do some fun things. >> And you've done great, Gerald. We're proud of you. So good. So great.

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>> Today's question comes from Renee in Nevada. My husband has a gambling problem and has money invested in a retirement account. How can we protect that money so he can't withdraw it? He agrees with me that we have to protect this money so he cannot access it. Can we put it in my name or another kind of account? He has withdrawn around $40,000 in the last two years and there's about $85,000 left in the account. My gosh,

>> second gambling. >> People who care about people,

>> we got dude, I am as first amendment guy as they come. I am a leave me alone guy as they come. But access to gambling is

destroying families. It's just destroying teenagers. It's destroying college students. It's destroying society. We have to draw some lines there. It's just it's it's out of control, man.

>> Geez. >> And I mean, honestly, from Renee, I mean, not 401ks. I mean, they have to be in your specific name to get the tax benefit. And I mean, I guess you could talk to your if you guys have a financial advisor and have some kind of documentation that says unless but he could still log into his account. I mean I I don't know there's not a way to like I mean in a trust or a living trust or

something. I mean there could be some like legal loopholes but you can't take it out of your name. Um

>> I guess he could possibly put you could you could come up with a password on the account that he doesn't have. >> That that could be good. He could call around and get it.

>> I Rachel, I don't like um this really puts Renee in the seat as

>> Oh, that's a good Yeah. >> as the as the mom >> and putting responsibility on her >> or as the police officer. Um it it's in

many ways um gambling like so if if you

have an addiction to cocaine

>> um or to alcohol. One of the first things you do is you get rid of all the alcohol and then you have to decide, I'm not going to be in places where alcohol is, which is tough for folks going through alcohol rehab because they lose their friendship, their friends, they lose their their, you know, cheers. They were places where everybody knows her name, right? It's hard.

>> If you're struggling with disordered eating, >> it's a different thing because I have to make peace with food. I can't just cut food out. Similar with gambling.

You can delete all the apps and stuff, but you have to make peace with money because that's how the world works.

>> You still have to use it. You have to use it. You have to interact with it. Have some sort of relationship with it. And so, >> um, Renee, if it's a very short period of time and you're trying to step up while he's getting in rehab and he's getting help, good and great and grand.

Um, but if this is this is not a long-term solution for you to become the police officer of the family finances.

Um, especially Yeah. >> Well, cuz and that's I mean a little bit of the addiction world. I've heard you kind of talk about this that no one else can fix you like so you can put things in place that are wise and smart >> but hurdles but he has to be Yes. That's not going to solve right you.

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's got to go.

If it's at this level where he is withdrawing from his account and he's looking at you saying, "I can't stop." He needs to go to an impatient facility and disconnect himself from the planet

for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days and get get the help he needs cuz this is not a long-term solution here. But short term, I mean short term, I have given the password to um >> Amazon Prime to my wife before. I gave her my debit card for a season. I just carried cash when I was out of control.

>> Um but I wasn't struggling with gambling addiction, right? I wasn't addicted to anything. I was just being a brat.

>> Oh, and you know what? It takes a level of humility because we had a call earlier in the show about this >> to admit to something, right?

>> It's the worst. >> And to go get help, but and I know you've probably seen this, John, more than me. I've had only a few people in my life do like true 12step and been in it. But there are some of the of the deepest, most wonderful people that I know that you >> that walk through recovery. >> Yeah. It changes you >> there. Like addiction and shame feed on

secrets. And the beauty of a 12step program is you walk in and you say, "My name is John and here here it all is." And you're surrounded by people who are like, "Yeah, here's us, too." And you realize they still like you and they don't kick you out >> and you realize you're not the worst thing you've ever done. It's hard. >> Uh Ian Kron, one of our friends, he wrote a book and I'm sorry, Ian, if you're listening this, I can't remember the name of it, but it was a little bit like the it >> everybody needs the 12step.

>> The 12step. Yes. And he was like, "It's those those meetings are more like church." >> Yes. >> Than some churches today.

Like most churches today. So saying all this to say, Renee, that >> your husband, if he chooses something, it just sounds intimidating when you just said like go to an outpatient. I even was like, "Okay." Yeah.

>> I don't want to say they're like better people, but it's they're a there's something different about them. >> They've had they've had to mind. And I've known folks who've gone to multiple different rehab centers. It doesn't always work the first time or the second time or the fifth time. But there's something about saying I'm worth the investment in getting Rene. I hope that

that's helpful and that encouragement to you guys and for anyone out there that's hearing this. All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia. And we have Amanda on the line. Hi Amanda. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So I have a question and maybe I'm looking for a little bit validation with a decision. I am a single mom and I'm

wondering if I need life insurance to take care of my child uh if something were to happen to me. But >> the and I know the immediate answer might be yes, but my son has a trust

and then he would inherit all of my assets as well in addition to survivor benefits. >> Okay. What was the trust from?

>> His father's passing.

>> Oh, okay. Oh, I'm sorry, Amanda. Okay.

Um, >> how much is in that trust?

>> Uh, when it's all settled, it'll be about 600,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> How old's your son?

>> Uh, four. >> Okay. >> And then what assets do you have that he would inherit? >> About a million in property and >> property. Okay. >> And retirement. >> Okay. Um, I mean, when you look at that numbers

wise, I mean, you could pan it out and just think, okay, for his life, um,

college, living expenses,

um, to whoever's going to be taking care of him, right? I'm sure you have a will and all that in place. Um, you know, is

that enough? And I think you could you could make that decision. The reason I still lean towards having some term life

is honestly it's so inexpensive, Amanda, that it's I think it's honestly worth it

because if something were to happen to you so tragically um if you did have I

mean how much money do you make a year?

>> Um between 150 and 200.

>> Okay. So, if you had, you know, a million and a half on you or something, um, I think when you look at a policy like that, it's going to it is going to be so inexpensive. Um, that I I think I

think I would and I may just do like a 10-year term until he's 14. Um, because

again, that kind of gives you some runway. And the only reason I say that is I just reuped Winston and I both did and we're self-insured. Everything's paid off. We're baby step seven. But when we ran the numbers, I was like, it's so inexpensive that if something were to happen, it is just like it's just that extra cushion, that extra peace of mind for him. And again, you probably you don't have to do a long a long term policy. Um, and and shop it

around. If you go to Xander, uh, Xander.com, Xander Insurance, or, you know, ramiesolutions.com/zander.

Um, we've been working with them for over 30 years, and they're an insurance broker, Amanda. So they will so you type in all your info and they basically shop around all the top companies and find the competitive rates and most of them you don't even um you you don't you don't even have to do all the all the what is it like the where they check in on you and they get they do all your blood work and stuff. >> Yeah. Some of them you don't even have to do that.

that I as a mom I would sorry that's a very long answer. I just want to give you my why. Um >> here here's what I would do it Amanda.

Um, and you may have had some of this lived experience. When did your husband pass away?

>> Uh, last year. >> Oh, man. What was his name? >> Sorry. >> Uh, his name was, um, Robert.

>> Was he awesome?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, here's here's why I would I've

sat with people whose spouse has passed

away and they have quote unquote a lot of money, a lot of assets, but they have no cash and they've got real estate,

they've got trust, and they need groceries and gas or they need tuition payments or whatever. And so I like the idea of having a policy that pays out relatively quickly so that if your son is 17 and he's heading off to college, he doesn't have to worry about selling a million dollars worth of land and estate and stuff like that. He can continue on with his life and then deal with the asset um assets later. That's just that's my opinion. I would have it

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting with Dr. John Deloney and we are taking your calls. So give us a call at 888 8255225

to talk about your life and your money.

All right, let's go to Henry in Tampa, Florida. Hi Henry, welcome to the show.

>> Hey there guys. I just want to say when I was a delivery driver in the UK, I would binge listen to the Ramsey and Dr.

Deloney shows the ships fly by. I'm very happy to say longtime listener, first- time caller.

>> Thank you, Henry. Well, glad you're calling in. How can we help?

>> Okay, so I'm 25 uh and I just moved here three weeks ago uh from the UK.

>> Welcome. >> And thank you. Thank you. I just got married two weeks ago to my amazing wife. >> Awesome. Is she American too or were you guys both from you say England?

>> No, she Yeah, she's from Florida. I'm a Brit who cannot do with heat. I would not choose Florida if I had a choice.

>> Good luck. We're heading into the summer months. >> Oh, I know. I know. I'm I'm dreading it.

Um Um I'm just happy to have the air conditioning. Um so basically and um until I get my green card in what could be about 6 to 12 months, I'm not allowed to work. Uh, so after upcoming paperwork fees, I've got about $16,000 in my savings. I'm just wondering how I can spread slashinvest those savings to give me a decent amount of growth.

Um, although I'm not it's not coming from an income. >> I guess my first question is, man, I've I've heard of green cards taking a lot longer than 6 to 12 months.

Um yeah, it's um the 6 to 12 months is of course just the um estimate, but that's based on what what the processing times are right now. So it's uh it's an optimistic one, but it's uh it's what we could potentially be looking at. Yeah. >> Well, that's that's us folks. We're the optimistic bunch, right?

>> You're you're already you're already drinking the tea. I love it. Um >> and is this the only >> lot of experience with that? >> Actually, we don't drink tea. We drink coffee. So, we uh Yeah, you're drinking the coffee. >> Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.

>> Um, okay. So, Henry, yeah, for the investment side, I mean, are you are you guys wanting to use this money? I mean, you guys are newly weds. Are you going to purchase a home?

Are you, >> you know what I mean? Are you going to use it probably in the next four to five years? >> Okay. In the in the next four to five years, yes.

Currently, we're living with uh my now in-laws, so we're in a pretty good position in uh that sense. My wife are working. Um, so that's great. And she's got savings as well.

Uh, but I'm just I'm just trying to see how to basically like uh build upon my own savings cuz I just I don't want to be leeching off my wife. I'd rather it be the other way around. >> Well, I I you you've you listen to the show along so I've got a reputation.

saying this but you've got somewhat of a pass. I mean, actually, you don't have the pass, right? But like, but I mean,

legally, you can't. Um, but my concern for you is taking six months to 12 months. I'm not worried about y'all financially. It doesn't sound like you got a place to stay. Your wife is working. I'm more worried about >> Yeah. what you're going to be doing. >> Purpose. >> Oh. Um, so when I uh do end up working,

uh, I'll be um, so next week I'm going to meet about um going to a meeting about doing volunteer work with a social media team at um, a church because I do photography, videography, and editing. So I'll just be building up my portfolio until I can work >> that. Uh, dude, you're you so glad you're here. Yes, it's awesome.

We talked to so many people who are like, I'm just stuck and I don't want to do anything. And here you like you're doing exactly >> and you have an excuse to not do anything. >> You're doing exactly the right thing.

>> Opportunity. I want my opportunities.

>> Gosh, >> it's awesome. Henry, >> just sit on the side of the road with a billboard and say you have lots of opportunities >> here. Look at me. >> I I could I'll tell you what.

I'll just I'll set the uh I'll set the billboard up because I can't deal with the Florida heat. >> In the shade of it. Yeah. >> Yeah.

So, from a an investment standpoint, Henry, honestly, because of where you guys are and the fact you're probably going to need this money, it sounds so boring, but I probably I think I just put it in a high yield savings account. >> Yeah, I would too >> because I mean, it'll grow three maybe four, probably more like 3%. 3 4%.

and you'll make a little bit off of it, right? Um, but if you invest it at this point, I'm nervous that you guys are going to need it. And >> sometimes writing out the market in less than two to three years, you don't always >> if you you know what I mean? if the timing's off, like you don't have that longevity of what of the growth in it

>> in the investment. So, um I know it sounds boring, but I think I would just set it in a high yield savings account because I think you guys you're you're so focused that I could see you guys moving forward so quickly on decisions because you're going to have the ability to and I wouldn't want it stuck in some investment and you're trying to like time the market because you know you have to get it out.

>> Okay. >> What do you what do you want to work when you get this this green card? What what job? >> A work visa. I'm I'm terrible with all this stuff. >> That's what I'm wondering. Could What do you want to do?

>> Uh just as a long-term job.

>> Yeah. >> Uh primarily work in social media. Um like I say, I do photography and videography. Um so yeah, I'm I'm going

to be working with this um this social media team at this church to basically because they're they're a little bit behind on social media. So to just get them up with uh >> Sure. >> I love that. Henry, you're an awesome guy.

And if if you're able to find even a six month or 12 month gig with somebody who will sign a work visa over for you there in Florida. Um and I imagine Florida has more experience with with work visas, but that you might find a company that will pick you up um and sponsor you until you get your green card. So it's an honor to talk to you, brother. >> Well done, Henry.

All right, let's go to Raleigh, North Carolina, and we have Tyler on the line. Hi, Tyler.

>> Hi. How are y'all doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Hi. So, I ha I recently graduated from college in December and I am also new to

the Ramsay sort of baby steps program.

>> Welcome to the co graduated.

>> Yes, thank you. So, when I graduated, I graduated with student loans, car payments, all that. >> Settling up to like $105,000.

Oh. >> Um, and yes, so uh between now and then

I've got it down to $90,000 in the past four months, >> but I'm looking to see as far as my student loans go. I work for the state and so there's a public service loan forgiveness after you work state for 10 years. Um, you get all of your student loans wiped. >> So I know about the debt snowball and

targeting the smallest thing and that's definitely my biggest thing. So it'll be the last thing I target. My question would be once I get to >> No, I would not wait.

>> I wouldn't wait. >> Do not wait. >> Okay. And here's here's here's my two reasons. One, um this is this is me calling balls and strikes. The Fed has picked up the number of applications that they're processing. Right? So, there was years when I had former students who were part of the debt repayment program working with the state >> and they were it was like 1% were getting picked up and everyone else was getting rejected. They have increased that. Okay. But here's what I want you to think through. Number one, 10 years

is two elections away from now,

>> right? >> 10 years ago, would you have predicted today? No. Nobody would.

>> Right? And so, a who knows who's going

to be in office in 10 years and what program they're going to say, "I'm not I'm not honoring. I will honor who whatever." >> And Congress passes it, right? I mean, like, yes. >> Yeah. Who knows? The second one is 10

years ago, I was two states, four houses, and three careers from where I am right now.

And I would hate to have thought that I couldn't be in the seat I'm in right now because I was tied to a $90,000

federal repayment program where I worked, right? So, I want you to be in control of your life and you're crushing this debt. Just get it knocked out. And by the way, if they decide 6 months after you pay it off that they're going to wipe away every student loan in the in the country, know that you were a person of integrity.

You sign your name to a piece of paper. You said, "I'll pay you back." And you kept your word to yourself if nobody else.

And you're killing it already. $15,000 since the beginning of the year. Well done.

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All right, let's go to James in Springfield. Hi, James. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. Welcome. Welcome. How can we help today? >> Okay, so I have a decision on the table in front of me today and uh it is a job change situation. So, um, at my current

job, I am doing, we do okay. Uh, me and

my wife, we make about 72,000

a year. We make about$,750 an hour. We get a $1 an hour uh shift differential on the weekends. But for the last three years, we worked this job with no like we don't get any PTO, no vacation, no

benefits. It's like bare bones. actually

just implemented a sick like occurring

sick time or whatever.

>> What's the What's the job, dude?

>> Uh in home care. We do we take care of

people. >> Are you Are you all 1099?

>> No. >> You're W2 employees?

>> Yep. >> With no days off and no sick leave.

>> No, we do have We do accumulate sick days. We can accumulate up to like 56 hours, I think.

But no vacation. So there's no benefits.

This company has nothing for you guys.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and honestly with where we're at, we live in a town of like 800 people. That it's kind of the norm here, >> which is unfortunate, but it's just how it is. >> It is. Okay. All right. How can we help today? So, I've been considering and I got a

call today and I've got a decision put on the table in front of me on whether or not I want to take this job uh working in a CNC factory for uh they do

contracts for Boeing Defense, which makes me really happy because I like stuff like that. >> Wait, CNC Factory?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> I remember CNC Music Factory. That's one of James' favorite bands. But that's not what you're talking about. >> No, no, no, no. like uh computer

parts machining. Yeah. For F-14s and stuff like that for airplanes.

>> Very different than CNC Music Factory.

Okay. All right. >> Yeah. Yeah. But um so my big question is

is like me and my wife have been working here for the last three years. It's really allowed us to like kind of get our lives together, you know, like we're we're consistently making good money. uh

you know, we homeschool our kids. So, it's kind of tough for us to both work and find something that works with our schedules and stuff like that. And going into this new job, I would take a little bit of a pay cut, like close to 50 cents an hour, but I'm also like at this job that I work now, I get overtime and stuff. And I would be not only losing all my overtime, but I'd be losing like five hours a week.

I'd be like 35 hours a week.

the change and I'd have a set schedule like at this job we don't have a set schedule. I mean I could have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off or I could have Thursday, Friday off. I could work 12 hours, four hours a day. It just all over the place.

And so it's kind of like I guess the big benefit for me of the new job would be like consistency for my kids. You know, not having to get them up out of the house at 11:00 to do shift change. for sure.

>> Yes, exactly. >> Is there is there a pathway for getting a raise? What does that look like in this company? >> Uh, whenever I This is kind of the other

reason why I'm really on the fence about it is like anytime I try and ask about that kind of stuff, he's kind of, this guy just came in from Kansas City and bought this place and he's been like trying to get the numbers up on it. He just signed some long-term contracts with Boeing which were very promising and stuff, but whenever I talk about RA, he's kind of like, well, you know, nothing set in stone. I don't really have a >> He's got to make sure that he make that he gets his numbers up before promising anything.

Okay. >> Yeah. The business was kind of drowning when he bought it. >> Okay.

consistency standpoint. Is that what you're asking us?

>> Pretty much. Because right now me and my wife, we take home on average probably 53 to 55 depending because I get overtime and stuff.

>> Yeah. A month. >> Yep. And then how much would it how much would it be then if you took this job?

>> Probably take like a $6 to $800

decrease.

>> Okay. Um H >> is it offset by >> We're also trying to pay off a lot of like not a lot of debt. We don't have a ton of debt. >> What would it feel like >> making Yeah. I mean, could you guys live off of 4,800 a month and be okay?

>> Our gas, groceries, bills, and like

every single dollar that has to come out of our account adds up to right about 4,000.

>> Okay. >> That like it feels tight, you know?

>> Right.

Um for a And then what debt? What consumer debt do you guys have?

>> Uh we have a car loan that's about

7,000. Okay.

>> Um, we have credit card debt altogether.

We're about to pay two of them off, but that adds up to I think right around

2700 or something like that. And then um

I had some we had two vehicle incidents.

I didn't want to file insurance claims because it was minor damage. So, I did use a firm which I knew I shouldn't have, but I did it and uh fixed one of my cars. Well, both my cars with the parts and stuff from that.

So, a firm I think I have two or $3,000

probably. All in all, I think I'm under $12,000 total debt.

>> Gotcha. >> And I'm also in school right now.

>> Golly, y'all have a lot going on. >> What are you studying?

>> Uh, accounting. >> Are you cash flowing?

>> Uh, well, Pell Grant's paying for a lot of it. I'm out of pocket like $600 a year. >> Okay. Great. Yeah.

>> Um I would be okay. I mean it's 12 grand.

So I'm like if you guys and you got 900 that realistically, right, if you're going all crazy um you know and you're

only doing what you have to do, >> needs versus wants during the debt snowball. Just pretend that you could throw 900 at it. And if you worked

extra, James, which I know you would have a full work week with this, but if you went and worked weekends, could you work >> could you work for your old proper.

>> No. Okay.

>> I might be able. >> Could you do home health one or two days a week? >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. On the weekends? >> Surely they need you.

>> Well, I mean, >> I'm just trying to see how you can make it >> possibility. >> Okay, so here's the thing. If you could find an extra 1,000 a month on top of

that 900, you guys are completely debtree by September, October.

>> Completely. Like, so so I'm like that was the plan. >> Okay, perfect. So, um, if you can find that extra thousand dollars that's that would have been there if you stayed in this job, if you could replace that with something else, I think I would be okay with the move. >> But there's a part of me that I'm like, I think you make >> you make better money at this job. And I know it makes life inconsistent, but for another six months and then take on more overtime with that job and make more.

I'm like, could you get out even faster?

>> The Yeah. Well, sorry to cut you off. Go ahead. >> No, go. Yeah, I was going to say the thing that has me pausing for you is

listening to you talk about the home health job versus talk about the CNC job. >> Your whole cadence and tone changed. You sound excited about the CNC job, >> but the other variable is you're going to school for accounting. So >> yeah, >> you're not this isn't like a career move for you where I there's been several jobs where I took a pay cut because it was going to get me where I wanted to go and every time that's worked out to my benefit, but I was going to something, not from something, right?

>> And so yeah, >> for you it sounds like you're just I mean home health will burn you out.

That's a tough tough gig, especially with a with a with a company that

doesn't seem to care much about you outside of the workplace. And so I can imagine you wanting to just stop doing that and you found the first ship out of that, you know, out of that harbor. But man, if you ride it out for a couple more years, you're going to set yourself up totally different and then go do the job you're going to college to do. You know what I mean?

That's kind of that's kind of like where I'm at is like I could take this job now. Short-term struggle, I suppose, but more of a path because like even when we got this job, they were like there's no opportunity for a raise. The only reason we got raises was because minimum wage increased in Missouri and that was >> a nightmare in and of itself.

stick it out here? I have a projected I just finished my first term of classes in like nine weeks >> because I'm doing like a self-paced >> How long till you get done school?

>> September 27th probably give or take.

>> Yeah, you're talking a year and a half I would say put. And I know that I know that's hard to hear but you're taking a pay cut for >> something that's not getting you where you want. >> 18 months of stability and you're going to throw everything back up with a with a degree in accounting.

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All right, let's go to Hillary in Fresno, California. Hi Hillary, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, okay. So, it's kind of a concept

that I would love to get your guys' opinion on. So, I started listening to you guys about a year and a half ago.

Um, and just the contentment and joy and

things that have just come from changing our mindset of not trying to keep up with the Joneses or look at what's next and all of that has just completely changed our life. And so, as my husband and I are sitting down and just planning for the future, we are trying to decide

how to help our kids basically. And I recognize they're little. we don't have to make this choice or these decisions for a long time, but you know, we're doing the 529 accounts and um we live in

California, so it's ridiculously expensive here and just imagining what house is going to cost once they're ready to buy and the thought of like, okay, well, we could start investing to have accounts set up to help them with that. But then I just think about my husband and I and we're doing pretty well and the pride that I have when I

look at us and I look at my husband and the scratching and the clawing that we did um for our careers and our finances like it was me and him and God against the world. Like we started from nothing.

>> Yes. >> And I'm just thinking like am I robbing them? Would I be robbing them of that?

Like I want my daughter to look at her husband with the pride that I look at my husband with. you know, um, but I also don't want to be like, "Okay, you're on your own kids. Figure it out in this ridiculously expensive state." So, we're just trying to get figure out how to balance that.

>> I I've I've got some opinions. What do you think, Rachel? >> Okay, quickly, two thoughts. I think regardless is if you help them with the house or not, they're going to they're going to run into some crap in their lives regardless.

It may not be financial, but they're going to run into some things. And I think if they have the character and maturity of what you're raising them to be, they're still going to be look at each other as spouses and be like, we just took on the world. And it may not be a money issue, but it could be something else. So, I think it's more the character of the person >> that's there.

Um, and then my second thing kind of along with the characters is I would pray because Winston and I have these conversations, Hillary, too, with our kids.

that we don't have to turn a switch at 18 years old to be like, "Oh crap, now you got to be responsible. You got to think about other people. You got to be generous. You got to learn that money won't make you happy. Oh, you got to learn that stuff. You know, like that switch doesn't just flip when they leave your home. It is an act of who they are.

And as parents, you walking life with them while they're under your roof. And then when you launch them into the real world, the prayer is they're not going to be perfect obviously, but the prayer is that they have a level of insight into money and contentment and hard work because you all have maybe um

manufactured some of that while they're under your roof so that they learn and understand how to handle money. Um so that if they are given some financial gift, whatever that looks like, it doesn't ruin them. It magnifies who they are. >> So those were my two thoughts that came up, but John may have others.

I love what you said and I I did everything Rachel just said. Hillary, I want you to teach them how to scratch and fight and claw and because you're right. It's kind of like you're a professional MMA fighter, right? And you and your husband and you going around and fighting all their fights for them will keep them from having broken bones and bruises, but they won't be tough when they face the real world.

And so, what is that going to look like for y'all that's going to be different? Like in my house, I could have bought my son a truck.

And he knew that years ago. And he

treats that truck and it's it's my old truck and I gave him a great obviously I did all the parent things, right? Gave him a great deal and all that. He loves that truck and he takes care of that thing because he it's years of his life he invested in it. And so I want to teach him how to scratch and fight and claw and I won't have the money to buy him a house when he graduates, right?

But man, he'll have the tools in his toolkit. And so some of that is as he's gotten older, I've talked more about our household budget with him. In fact, our 10-year-old daughter, we just started, she leaves lights on everywhere, right?

We just started talking about the light bill and here's what here's what the light bill cost. And now I'm watching her go through. She's now she's turning off the lights when I'm in the middle of doing something. and she's like, "Dad, it's expensive." Right? And that's a little bit far, but I want our kids to know how the world works. And that way

they're I I don't want to give them bruises and I don't want to manufacture broken arms for them, but I do want them to know how the world operates. And as their parents, whether we have nothing or we we're in a season of abundance, man, they they're going to know that life isn't free. And that means they're going to not have an allowance, but they're going to get paid for jobs. And I love hearing my 16-year-old came in the other day and he's like, "I need to put gas in the car." And my wife said, "There's three weeks worth of dog poop you haven't picked up in the backyard.

Go get on it." Right?

in the truck." Right? And so he's going to learn those lessons so that when he goes out there, but you are dead on a

two two people who get married, them two plus God plus the world. That's it. And the other thing I'll tell you is the data is pretty clear. The greatest gift parents can give their kids is to love each other recklessly.

And that gives kids something to anchor into as they head out into the world.

And so it sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job already.

>> Yeah. So I think the goal, Hillary, would be that you teach them in such a way while they're under your roof how to do things and how to have the dignity and the self-sufficiency of of learning work and where money comes from and all of that. So that if later because part of our message is changing your family tree and part of that does look like, you know, we have people on the show and they're like >> need it when they're 70, right? in my so

yeah and and we've heard people that are like I'm the last one to ever be in debt and I will do x y and z but I do expect them to have jobs and whatever like I don't know whatever the the formula is so my goal would be because and I talked about this that if there is anything in the future that is given if we pay for their tuition for college

if we pay for their wedding and they don't have to pay for their like whatever that thing is that that doesn't ruin them right and if it ruins them then the character was never built in the first place >> and So yes, have the dignity of creating

their own paycheck. They need to be.

Yes. Out in the world because it's good for them. It's good for society, right?

To be hard workers and all of it. I just don't want something dependent any level of a financial gift to ruin them. I really that that would be like a a character flaw. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, it does. Um, and I mean again they're little but we are working pretty hard on you know they for money and we're doing generosity and all of the

gifts just kind of won't even matter.

>> That's right. And we did 401 Dave in our house. We had to pay for all half of our cars. That's what we plan on doing with our kids. John's already lived through it with 401 dad and and I and I love it.

And here's another thing Hillary. Um what I have found besides chores and things like that. And I'll tell you, in our house, we divide up. There's some things that you do in our house because you're a part of this house, >> right?

I'm not going to pay you for being a part of the family. >> Yeah. And then there's other things that are jobs that either I would hire out or that I have to do and so I'll pay somebody to do it and you might as well take it. Um >> Dave was always like, I don't want to create little union workers.

Every sock you pick up, you expect a quarter.

tip.

That's when he got the idea of money >> because he would watch I it started with hey how much do you how much you want to give as a tip and he'd say $2. And I'd like more. And he would watch them, the

waiter or the waitress, they would smile. One time at Christmas, they chased us out in the parking lot to give us hugs. Like him seeing and my daughter and now I too seeing what generosity looks like and how it's received. That

for whatever reason has been the biggest shape shift in that, oh, we can be a

blessing to other people. I want to be a part of blessing other people. What does that mean? Well, that means you got to work real hard so you have your needs taken care of so that you can bless like crazy.

And so all that to say is there's a bunch of little things you and your husband can do um even when they're young to begin to teach them about how y'all handle money and they're going to mirror what y'all do out in the world. >> Yeah. And the importance of money and where where it is the role it plays in your life, Hillary, which is going to be good.

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Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 4:16.

Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Norman Vincent, is it Peele? I don't know. Tell me, John, you >> I don't know. According to you, it's PLA. >> You know that uh those names, they can be hard. >> Norman Vincent PLA.

>> That's right. It said, "Empty pockets

never held anyone back. Only empty heads

and empty hearts can do that." Oh,

>> Norman Vincent Peele was a famous ice skater.

>> Are you being for real right now? >> No. >> Oh gosh. >> I was going to fall for it and be like, "Oh, I had no idea."

>> Is he an author? He's a writer.

>> Yeah, he was a >> Yeah, he's an author. >> Oh, he was a James >> American Protestant clergyman and an author. Yes, >> he's a writer. Oo, clergyman. Fancy.

>> Do you know what clergyman is?

>> Or as Rachel calls them, clairg.

All right, let's head to Denise.

>> It's not thermometers. Thermometer name.

I can say this name. Denise and Houston, Texas. Dice. >> This is D. Nice in Hton Tone.

>> A Ron. Okay.

>> That's a great skit. That's so good.

Okay. All right. Denise, we're coming to you in Houston.

>> What's up, Denise? Hi, Denise. Hi. How are you?

>> Um, I guess I'm okay now. Better that I'm uh talking to you guys.

>> All right, we got you. I was just in Houston this weekend. It's my hometown and I love it. >> And Denise is my sister's name, so we feel connected to you already. >> We got you. What's up?

>> Okay. Awesome. Well, I'm a a spouse of a

disabled vet that re recently received

our 100%.

But in the interim room, I incur debt

personally and um businesswise. I occur

about uh 35,000 in businesswide and

probably about the same in personal debt. >> Um the company I used to work for went bankrupt two years ago, so I decided to do my own um business, which was a

boutique. Um, but now I think I'm ready

to go back into um the workforce because the tariff actually made my business, you know, kind of fail somewhat. I'm still doing

it part-time and I just need advice. Um,

I'm a great sales consultant slash

finance manager and um, yeah, I just

need some guidance. >> Okay. And it's $35,000 in business debt.

And then you said 35,000 more on

personal >> and the personal. Yes. >> Okay. What's the personal debt? What?

Break that 35 down.

>> Credit cards.

>> Credit cards. Okay. >> And loans. >> Was it used um were you using that on the business or was that just like personal? You were just using it for life. >> That was Yeah, I was using it for life.

Okay. While we go through trying to get

the 100%, you know.

>> Yeah. Where are you at on that? met my hus um I'm just I was paying what I can like

a lot of them are being default. I just recently, you know, negotiated like one or two of them, but yeah.

>> Okay. >> But I Yeah, it's just I don't start

Ubering, but I know I need to go back into the workforce. >> Okay. But you're you're still part-time at the boutique and you own the boutique, correct?

>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. How are you how are you working part-time? Do you have do you have other workers that are there when you're not there? >> No, I don't. I don't.

>> Okay. Um hm. With all the merchandise

and everything you have in it, if you ended up selling it or liquidating everything, do you know what you would get out of the business?

>> Well, that's what I started doing, but then I got overwhelmed. Yeah.

>> I paused it for two weeks because I've just been really, really overwhelmed.

But um I think I need to go back to um

trying to liquidate it and go

>> cuz what's it making a month?

>> What does it bring in a month?

>> Um it was bringing like at least six

grand, but now because of the tariff and all that um maybe two.

>> It's bringing in two grand and that's profit after your expenses and everything. >> Okay. Okay. So, you're not go you're not going in the red >> because I paid >> No. No. >> Okay. >> So, it's two grand. And is that Sorry.

With you working part-time making two grand doing with all of it. If you think you went full-time, would you double that or probably not just with >> the amount of foot traffic and stuff because it's a boutique? >> I probably would. I guess I just got nervous and overwhelmed and start hoovering and kind of >> Yeah, because if you brought in four grand a month, if that's what you made and if that was I mean I guess you'd have to bring it home and pay taxes on that.

Yeah, it's still not a ton.

>> Uh, no. He's a disabled pet.

>> Okay. How much does he get in disability a month?

>> Uh, he got disability. He has um his

pension and stuff. um

I think about five or 6,000 when he's

taking care of the other bills. The only bill that I need to pay is my car note which is a Corolla. And what kind of set me back not just a tariff I got into a bad car accident. Okay.

>> Which set me out of work for >> Sorry. Okay. Yeah.

>> Well, I think kind of like a balance.

But one of the best I think actions for you guys is even the way you're explaining how you guys are paying bills in the household. It kind of sounds like he takes care of this, I take care of that with his salary, my all of it.

>> I want you guys to look more holistically and say here are the bills of the household regardless of who drives what car or whose credit card, whatever. >> As a household, here's where we're at and as a household, here's the income that's coming in. How can we most efficiently use this household income to

tackle not only the household bills but also get us out of debt? And I do wonder

if there's more of a >> um Yeah, that holistic approach might

help. I don't know, Denise, because I'm wondering if you do I I probably would.

Yes. either look somewhere else or go full-time in this boutique and see if you can if you can make four grand.

Because if so, that's 10 grand a month you guys are bringing in, you know, if that's the case, which is not bad.

That's that's good. And you guys can make some headway on some of this debt if that's the case. So, I think you kind of have to plan out >> and put your business hat on and just say, "Okay, realistically, could I profit out four grand out of this business or more?" And if it doesn't look realistic, as you're saying, tariffs and all of this, when you look at your expenses, if it just feels like it's going to go into the red or your effort is better spent in another position in another job because you could double your income, right?

Yeah. What you could get out of it. So, so I would kind of I would kind of map out those those two plans. see and shop some jobs outside of that boutique living and just say, "Okay, what's out there for me realistically and what could I make?" And I would say, "If I worked here full-time at the boutique, could I double triple what I would I profit?" >> Okay. >> But I I Denise, like, tell me if I'm wrong here.

You don't fully know all the money your husband has coming in, do you?

>> No. >> Okay. I think part of the scary thing for you right now is you're doing all this alone

>> and there's >> Yeah, because >> I've been a single mom, I guess.

>> Okay. >> All my life. >> Yeah. So, and >> you know, >> and I and I get you've been grinding your whole life. Are you married to this guy?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I I I would love it if you sat

down tonight and said, "I want us to for

the first time go all in on each other."

And I want us to put all of our money in one account. I want us to put all of our debts on the table. I want to put all of our income on the table. And I want us to look at how the total picture of our

financial picture and how are we going to work out on our debts.

>> I guess I never been in this position before. >> I know. I know. It's scary >> and I'm so used to doing it alone and

>> and it's tiring. It's exhausting. Huh.

>> Yes. I was a single mom. But I will say

my daughter is in grad school. I did so much to get her there. >> You did good. >> Yeah, you're good, Denise.

>> And I haven't um I did it almost alone, >> which was very important, you know.

>> But but here's the thing. I want you to allow your husband who looked you in the eye and said, "Till death do his part." >> I want you to allow him to love you like you loved your daughter.

>> You're you're worth being loved now.

>> Yeah. >> And so both of y'all fight this thing together. >> And Denise, hang on the line. and and Christian's going to pick up.

We're going to give you every dollar cuz it will start walking you through the baby steps, the debt snowball. You guys get a budget together and sit down together and start mapping this out. So, it's a good tool that may help start that conversation. But, thank you so much for the call, John.

Great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth and our great audience today here in Franklin, Tennessee.

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## 66. Financial Victories Don't Happen Without Sacrifices | December 16, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:54:06 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Merry

Christmas to you. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888255225.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, solo today, or at least for part of the time. So, here's how it goes. Simon's going to kick us off in Phoenix. Hi, Simon.

What's up? >> Hey, Dave. How's it going? I appreciate you taking the call. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> I am um I'm 26. Me and my wife are um

both working full-time. We um she's a parallegal. I work in personal lines insurance, but on the side we run a um

small that's turned into a little bit bigger than small um Turo fleet of about

six cheaper vehicles. They range from 20

um 17 2019. Um and we've kind of, you

know, used some of your methods over the years. Uh it's been about 3 years since we've done it. we've, you know, paid for them, um, gotten them paid off very quickly and, um, we're debtree on all

those and it's pretty much just straight, um, cash, taking in cash at this point. But I want to expand it

more, um, quickly um, so that it maybe

can turn into a full-time thing for either her or for me. Um, and I'm just

curious on maybe what would be the next step um, from, you know, somebody else's

perspective to jump into that without taking out a major loan since vehicle prices are pretty extremely high right now, especially for newer ones. Um, but especially for cheaper ones um, at the moment cuz or for older ones that um,

don't seem to be as cheap um, at the moment um, without you know drowning myself in in debt from that.

>> Yeah. When we're teaching small business people entree leadership lessons, I tell

those guys and gals to grow organically with the cash that the business creates.

That's what we've done at Ramsey for 35 years. $300 million company this year.

We've never borrowed a dime. Every bit of everything we have, we reinvested profits to grow the business. That was

slower than I would have liked it

sometimes. I was frustrated at times because I I think I've got something in front of me that feels like an opportunity and I don't have the money to do it right now. And that limitation

has kept me from doing some pretty stupid things where I got out over my skis. So I tell our guys all the time when we're coaching small businesses to try to land on the cover of Slow Company magazine, not Fast Company magazine. Patience.

Patience. Build something that's sustainable. And because the the one thing we know about the space you're in, it's a brand new space. It's a disruptive space and it's going to iterate. There's going to be a lot 5 years from now. It will not look anything like it looks right now.

Agreed. >> Absolutely. >> And so if you had a 5-year loan, you're anticipating nothing changing and being able to make that loan. That's a asinine. You're not going to get there.

Okay. Because you're in a very disruptive space. So I I How much? So,

so your only cost once you pay cash for the car, the capital asset, then you're taking uh obviously the customer is providing their own gasoline, correct?

>> Correct. Yeah. >> And so you're providing insurance and repairs and loss in value and so forth,

right? >> Correct. >> So those are your expenses. So how long have you been running these cars?

>> About three and a half years.

>> And what are you netting? What's your net profit after your expenses?

Um, this year was our best year. I would

say it was about after all the expenses, it was about 32,000.

>> So, buy some cars with it. You have a job. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and and it was and I guess

actually net would be a little bit lower this year. >> That's what I asked was net.

>> Yeah. Cash in in the bank would be

>> that's net about eight right now. um

after after um we pay the insurance and full. >> You've got gross revenue minus expenses equals net. >> Yeah. >> Which would in a cashbased business would be the cash in the bank, dude.

>> And by the way, that's all taxable. You got to pay taxes on that. So, here we are at the end of the year. You're not going to, you know, you're going to get hammered. So, some of that 30 something,000 is not 30,000. It's probably more like 25 or 22. What What was it? >> Uh yeah, >> minus taxes. Buy some cars.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um the I guess

the only other >> What's your average price of your car?

>> Um to sell today they range from probably with all the depreciation uh >> No, I mean if you went and bought a car today to put into this, what would you pay for it? >> Um 14.

>> Okay. So you can buy one car.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Or two if or two if you roll up your sleeves and don't do 14, right?

>> You'll buy two. You can probably buy two $10,000 cars.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that's going to and you've got a fleet of six and so that's going to increase your revenues by 20%. That's pretty strong growth curve.

>> Correct.

>> Absolutely. >> Have you discovered Have you discovered yet that some models of cars uh do better in terms of appeal to the potential renter >> significantly. Minivans do.

>> And have you have you discovered that some cars break down more than others?

>> Sure. I stick to only Honda and Toyota

>> because of that. Okay. So, so you've kind of got your pattern laid out here.

>> You're, you know, you're you're tweaking your business model, >> you know, as you should, iterating as you go along. And I'm just going to beg you to not get out over your skis, man.

I know it's tempting. You feel like you're making a lot of money, but you're really not. I mean, you made 20 grand, >> correct? >> That's not life-changing money, and you're putting up with a lot of crap for 20 grand.

I mean, this is Airbnb in a car. You talk about air freshener, dude, you need some after these. I unbelievable. So, I mean, so I I don't even want to think about the stuff you find in these vehicles. And so, I No, I mean, um,

yeah, this is a lot of work for 20 grand. I don't know that we want to scale this, but you can scale it and have some fun with it, but pay cash as you go, and then the worst case is the thing iterates out from under you. it becomes illegal in your city or the uh the driverless cars come in and take over your city and put you out of business uh or whatever it is, something else iterates and disrupts because welcome to our world. And that's what business people understand is risk and that there is a there's a thing called the myth of continuity.

100% chance of change. It's in the

weather forecast every night. There's going to be change. There's going to be change. There's going to be change. And when you're running a small business and you go along with the myth of continuity, so you go borrow 35 or $40,000 and put six of these things on the road only to find out you're completely out of business and have car debt.

Oh, wow. That's a problem. Um, you know,

so, so you can't predict all the outside variables. All you can do is build a solid foundation so when COVID hits, you survive.

So when Whimo hits, you survive. So when

it becomes illegal to do Turo in your town, you survive. And all of those things are in play, by the way. Cuz guess who doesn't like you? Some of the big boys. Herz, Avis, hello. They got a

little money. They're messing with your city council right now. I promise you.

Guess what? Who else doesn't like you?

Taxi cabs. They don't like Uber either,

but they hadn't been able to run them out of business yet, but they were trying. So, there's always an ongoing war. There's an outside force that you're not considering when you just look at your simple cash flow and you haven't considered all these risk factors in there. So, build something sustainable. Be on the cover of Slow Company magazine. I don't mind you growing it, but grow it only with cash.

And that'll be a governor, a a limiting

factor on your growth curve to keep you reasonable and keep you from getting your butt in trouble, man.

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Ricky's in Sacramento. Hi Ricky. Welcome

to the Ramsey Show.

>> Please uh have me on. Thank you so much.

>> Sure. What's up? Um, I have a question um about me and my

boyfriend. We've been together for about 2 years. Our financial system system has been completely fine. We have all of our bills. We But we've never had a true conversation about money and our future.

And I want to know how I can bring this up to him without starting into argument or having him shut down on me about finances. because it seems like every time I do bring it up and I do want to start talking about finances, it's I want to do this by myself. Please let me do it by myself and I I want to work with him on this, but I don't know how to bring that into a conversation.

>> Are y'all talking about marriage?

>> Um, yeah. So, in about uh he said when

the relationship got to the fifth year that he would propose to me. Um but

uh with how our financial situation is going, I don't I'm not sure if that's actually going to happen.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Well, the number one cause of divorce in America is money fights and money problems, money stress, disagreement.

>> Okay. And so if you're going to get married, you have to solve for that not

being there to to increase the probability of your marriage being a success, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And so that's how I'm going to talk to him about it and say, "Listen, the number one thing that breaks people up is money issues. We need to get on

the same page with money. And if we're on the same page, doesn't matter where the what the what the page is, as long as we're on the same page. I mean, you can have debt, you can have a income issue, I can have debt, I can have an income issue. Uh, but, uh, you know, we've got to be in agreement about how money is being handled and that we're working our way out of debt and into wealth to have a high probability, a high chance of our marriage being awesome.

>> Yeah, I I understand that completely.

>> And that's how I would say it. Say that. Say that to him.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I will definitely >> and if he says I just want to do my own thing, he's telling you he doesn't want to get married >> and I I should just accept that at that point and kind of go with my own financial situation. >> Well, just decide whether you want to live with somebody the rest of your life and and be, you know, sharing the mustard or whatever it is you do.

>> All right. >> Which, by the way, the probability of you building wealth is very low when you do that.

Married people have married people have

married Married people have 13 times the net worth of unmarried people shacking up.

>> I gota I gota I I will have a

conversation with him and we'll try I'll try to bring this up and everything.

>> Yeah, that's what you got to do. I mean, you just got to talk it through and say, "Listen, this if if we're if we're not going to if we're really going to have a future, it's like 30 years from now, we're sitting on the front porch with the rocking chairs and so forth, right?

40 years from now, whatever it is, if we're really going to have a future, we got to start talking about what that looks like and what the best path is to get there and be in agreement on that." And money flows through every bit of that. And and irresponsible spending

does not flow through that. and big

piles of debt does not flow through that. That doesn't, you know, and and you know, just buying whatever I want to buy, being immature and having a little fit. I work so hard. I deserve You don't deserve anything. Shut up. Whining. When

you have the money to buy it, you deserve it. And that's cuz you worked for it. Other than until you do, don't talk to me about what you deserve. Crud.

You deserve calluses on your hand and sweat on your brow until you get the money to buy something. That's how it works. And that's what all of us face.

That's how we all live. And so, yeah.

Anyway, so Ricky, you just got to talk that through. And you guys have to be in agreement about our goals and what our desired future is and where we're going from here. And man, it makes a big difference when you do. It's very, very cool. Uh, Alex is that was Ricky. I'm sorry. Alex is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Alex. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Thanks for taking my call. Big fan. >> Thank you. How can I help?

So, in approximately 3 to four months from now, um the two savings accounts that I have in saving uh will line up

with what I owe on my mortgage um that

will be paid off. My question is the three approximately $300 a week that I

was paying towards my mortgage. Um what should I do with that? >> Your mortgage payment is only $1,200.

>> No, no, it's $1,550. But of course that's the um that includes taxes and

insurance. >> Okay. So you're you'll be rid of the $1,550.

And your question is what >> what should you do with that? >> The three Yeah. What should I do with the the $300 a week, which I'm

estimating, do I stack that on top of my 401k contributions? Do I put it into a

Acorn's account? >> No. >> Um I >> You don't put where my money is.

>> Really? >> Yeah, I have.

>> So, I've been saving in Acorns, two

accounts, later and the one that's now

um for many years. That Acorn's account is worth, you see, 62,000 of today, and

I've made 19.8,000.

The later account is worth 20.5,000.

That's a Roth IRA account. This year is the first time I've maxed out 7,000 towards the Roth IRA.

>> You're not talking about cashing out the Roth to pay off your mortgage.

>> No, no, I'm talking about the first one where >> So your mortgage is only 60,000 bucks.

>> No, no, the other account is a savings

account. My mortgage right now is I owe 97,000. >> Oh, I see. And what's the interest rate on your mortgage?

>> 3.375.

Yeah. >> You're not making any more than that on savings.

No, no, I'm not. No, the savings is just

a rainy day fund. And right now I have 10 grand. >> So when you pay off the mortgage using the acrons and the savings, do you have an emergency fund left?

>> I have nothing left.

>> We don't do that >> because >> I wouldn't do that, >> right? >> I would have an emergency fund and above that I would pay off my mortgage. So the first thing is you need to grow an emergency fund or keep an emergency fund. So what would I do if I were in your shoes?

I'd put $60,000 on the mortgage out of the acres and close the account today and I would take the mortgage down the other savings account down to 3 to six months of expenses and put it on the mortgage and then I'd tear into that mortgage as hard as I could tear into it.

Are you single?

>> I'm single. I have one kid who's 28.

>> Do you have any other debt of any kind?

>> No. >> What do you make? M I make 106,000 a

year and then I rent out my basement as a mother-in-law and I make 950 a month.

>> Okay, good for you. Well done. Okay, so Alex, what what there's three things when you get all this done and the mortgage is gone and you have your emergency fund in place and then we're putting 15% of our income into retirement into good Roth IRA and Roth 401ks with a match if you have one at work and that kind of thing. Once you're doing all of those things, then there's three things you can do with money. And you ought to always do all three things.

We've already covered the first one, which is investing it. The second thing is generosity. Giving it

as a matter of a percentage of your income. Steadily giving, not just one time I gave $10. It's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a steady rhythm of giving. Third thing is

a steady rhythm of enjoyment of your money. You are a saver, my friend. you

enjoy saving, you get a high from saving. You need to also learn to give and you need to learn to enjoy some of this money. That's why it's so hard to get. And then you need to have all three things going at all times. And that that's what I would tell you to do once you have the house paid off and have a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses in your savings account.

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter joins me as a co-host. Corey is in Bowling Green. Hey Corey, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, it's such a honor to talk to you. Uh, two very quick questions for you. >> All right, so uh, my kid is in college

last year. He got financial aid, most of it paid for. Our income has increased to the point where next year I'm probably going to be paying for the whole thing.

um our lifestyle has crept up at the

same rate that our income has crept up.

So, while we're trying to become a little more disciplined on our spending, um I've committed to paying for my kids

college and trying to cash flow it, but we are still in some debt oursel. So, my

question is should I uh hold on to that

commitment to cover his college if uh we are still in debt oursel?

What is the expense for the college? How much?

>> Uh, I expect next year there could be a potential living on campus. So, it could be $30,000. It's local. It's not too bad. >> Mhm. And what do you make? What's household income? >> So, my wife and I's household income, it's uh it's 200,000.

>> Mhm. Okay.

And how much debt do you have, not counting your home?

>> So, uh let's see. Not counting my home. Um, it's about $50,000.

>> Okay. >> What's it in, Corey? What type of debt?

>> It's a It's a stupid car and uh just a

just very little credit card debt.

>> So, how much is the stupid car?

>> Uh, right at $30,000.

>> Okay. And 20 in credit card debt.

>> Yep. >> Okay. All right.

And and do you realize that what you said to me was is that we increased our

lifestyle while we're in baby step two

trying to get out of debt. And instead of cutting that, you were talking about not getting out of debt to pay for college and keep our lifestyle up.

That's what you accidentally told us

>> because I'm sure you didn't say that on purpose.

>> Well, uh I'm I'm aware. I've been listening to y'all for a while. So, uh, there was a little intentionality there.

>> Okay. All right.

>> So, when you say upping your lifestyle, Cory, what does that mean? Is it just that you guys are enjoying this >> 200,000 that you're making? You know what I mean? When >> my kids were >> Go ahead. >> I apologize. Uh, when my kids were very, very young, uh, we used to not be able to afford uh the smallest of toys. So, as our income has come up, we've started going on probably a little larger family vacations than we should be going on. Uh

well, you need to you guys you and your wife need to sit down and decide what your goals are. Okay? Because you can't have three goals at once. You have to have one.

So, what is our goal? Is our goal to build wealth and some sustainability for our family? If it is, we're going to live like no one else, which means we're going to temporarily >> go no lifestyle, no vacations, no restaurants, no anything until we get the stupid debt cleaned up. And when the debt is cleaned up, then we're going to build an emergency fund.

>> Oh, yeah. >> So, you're not on baby step two. You're just kind of making up your own plan.

>> Okay. Baby step two is you stop all

lifestyle, scorched earth. You temporarily stop the 401k.

Um, the kid lives at home, not on campus, and you pay for his tuition and that's it. And you knock this debt out.

And if you want to do it even faster, sell the car. But otherwise, keep the car and pay it off. The car is not hugely impossible. But you can't go out

to eat every night, go on a lavish vacation, put the kid on campus, have all this debt, and hope the debt just magically goes away. Mathematically, it's not going to happen. That's what you've discovered.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, something's got to give you. And you ought to decide what's going to give on purpose, not be making 200 grand and end up broke someday. That'd be a dad gum shame.

Agreed. >> Yeah. And Corey, and honestly, you know, your income's great. And so, you look at it and it's not going to take you guys too long. I mean, if you think about after taxes and everything, what you're bringing home, >> I mean, if you guys just lived on 70 for a year, that's it. You could do all You could pay off debt, pay for the college.

I mean, all of it. You know what I mean? It's just like one year, the year of 2026. This is our year of just getting everything cleaned up because making this kind of money and having 20,000 in credit card debt does speak pretty loudly to >> I promise Junior to pay for college but I didn't promise to pay for beer pong so you can live at home.

>> Right. That is what's currently happening this year is living at home. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's not a bad thing.

>> And maybe it's you guys, you know, make massive progress in the spring and maybe him starting in the fall. You know what I mean? Like then he can live on campus or something. But um but I think a lot of this these numbers are pretty doable, Corey. But it's gonna take. >> And by the way, Junior could go get a job delivering pizzas and pay for his own dorm.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> I worked I worked when I was in college.

Did you go to college, Corey?

>> Yes. >> Did you work when you were in college?

>> I was full-time father. Full-time worker through college. >> Yeah. Me, too. I wasn't a father, but I was a full-time worker. >> I was going to say >> full-time worker. And I mean, hey, most

people most adults walking around over the age of 35 will tell you that if they went through four years of college, they worked >> some of the time. >> It's not child abuse. It's actually very good. If I'm hiring as as a Ramsey CEO

someone straight out of college and they've never worked, I'm nervous.

>> Yes. I never held any job. I would rather hire a B minus student who worked 40 hours a week and knows what a callous is than I would an A+ student who's never worked a dime and doesn't even know what it means to show up eight hours a day cuz they're going to come in here and go, "Oh, wait. This is what we do.

We come every day all day." Yeah, that's what we do. And it changes everything. So, it's okay if little boy little Junior goes and gets a job. >> And our research, this is this is probably a little bit older.

Um, we may have done this, I don't know, maybe eight when we did the borrowed future document.

a week while in school, 15 to 20, actually have higher GPA than students that don't. So, >> probability of graduating. >> Yes. So, yeah, it is um yeah, there's something to that for sure.

>> Yeah. The student athletes, a lot of them run and they're running full-time jobs as student athletes. A lot of them run higher GPA than the general population. >> It's not unusual.

>> And because the professors may like them, too. Well, that that could be, but it could be like, you know, I remember when Pat had summit Well, Pat had summit was there, every one of those there were great I know. Yeah. >> Every one of those girls graduated at the University of Tennessee ladies team in those days, the women's basketball, and the vast majority of them are on the honor roll.

>> I mean, so it was uh she run a tight Yes. I think coaches run the tight shift. >> So anyway, it's it's all this is possible.

>> Send Junior to college, enjoy life, and get out of debt. We can't do all three

for this year. Do we want to take a year off of enjoying life so that we can be

debtree and Junior goes to school and lives at home that year? And that's all very very doable. You'd be debtree in a year without even selling the car. Oh, and temporarily stop the 401k for a year.

>> Yeah. And this is a great example of kind of like the ish mentality when it comes to this because it's like Yeah. I mean, he's funding retire. I mean, he's doing some things that are, you know, fine, but it's like, yeah, we'll have a credit card.

Eh, we'll get that one car loan. The other car is paid for, but this one.

in all of it. Yep. You know what I mean?

So, yeah. So, there is this like extreme mentality to take, but then you get the result out of it, which is fantastic.

>> Live like no one else so that later you live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. There's a process to be p there's a price to be paid to win at these things. And it's focused intensity. And when you're intentional with it, it changes everything. The problem is in America, we make so stinking much money that it feels like we can have it all. And the old saying,

you have your cake and eat it too, right? Um you really can't. And and so for years, I was really good at making money. And I worked really really hard to try to out earn my stupidity, out

earn my mediocre undisiplined habits. And it doesn't work. You can't you can't make enough to do that because as soon because your mediocre undisiplined habits will go up every time your income goes up and and so you can't get away from this until you deal with the person in your mirror.

All of us. Cory, you're no I'm not fussing at you exclusively. I mean it's all of us. All of us deal with that same thing. But I think you and your I I have a sense that you've kind of realized this, but you're afraid to break it to the rest of the family. And so you and your wife tonight get to have a come to Jesus meeting.

And we're going to decide what we're going to be when we grow up. Grown-ups are children's. Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good.

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JC is in Boisee, Idaho. Hi JC, how are you?

>> Hi JC, how are you?

>> JC, >> hi. Can you hear me? >> I can. How are you?

I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hi. I am trying to figure out how to save for retirement and leave my kids with as much money as possible since my husband passed away.

>> I'm sorry. When did he pass?

>> Uh, two years ago.

>> How old was he?

>> He was only 28. >> Whoa. What happened? >> Oh my gosh.

>> Um, he actually passed away from an accidental overdose.

>> Oh my goodness. Oh, Jaci, I'm so sorry.

>> Oh, that's horrible. >> How many kids do you have?

>> Three. >> Three. What are their ages?

>> 10, four, and my little one, uh, I was

pregnant at the time, and he'll be almost two. >> Oh my gosh. >> Whoa.

Life insurance?

>> I'm trying to get it, but unfortunately I have some medical issues, so I keep getting >> No, no, no. I'm sorry. Did he have life insurance that was left to you?

>> No. >> Okay. So, what is your income, ma'am?

>> Um, well, I am making $50 an hour right

now with my cleaning business.

>> Good for you.

>> That's a lot of work. >> That's great. How much money are you bringing home a month?

>> Um, I'm bringing in about 2,000 a week.

Um, but I just started rebuilding my life. I >> went through a lot of depression and blew through what savings I had. So, I'm having a lot of guilt about that.

>> I I wouldn't You've been through hell. I I completely understand what you what you're where you are and I'm real proud of you for coming up out of this and rising up out of it and then starting your own business $50 an hour. Way to go, mom. Good job.

>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Very good. Okay, so um it sounds like it

feels like that you're fairly new to all this Ramsay stuff. We teach a process for building wealth called the baby steps. Have you ever heard of that?

>> I have. uh just been listening to you and started hearing of it again. >> Yeah. So, but the first goal is to save $1,000. Do you have any money saved?

>> I have nothing saved right now. I blew

through my savings. >> Got it. So, the first goal is to get a little baby emergency fund between you and a flat tire.

Okay. >> Okay. >> Or you and an alternator going out in the car or whatever it is, right? Okay.

because you got to get to work and you got all these kids like little all these little baby birds there wanting to be fed, right? So, we got to make sure they're okay. So, goal one is a little starter emergency fund. Then, do you have any debt?

>> I have a car loan right now.

>> How much do you owe on the car?

>> 30,000. >> Okay. That's a lot. Okay.

>> Yes. >> And what other debt do you have?

>> Um, just a couple little things that probably equal $1,000.

>> Okay. like a little credit card debt or something. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Good. Do you have a mortgage?

>> No. Okay. >> We rent. >> And you're 32.

>> 31. >> 31. Okay. That's what based on your numbers. That's what I was guessing. Okay. Um

Okay. So, goal one is $1,000. Two is

we've either got to sell this car and move down and or get it paid off very

very quickly. It is standing between you

and the answer to your question. Your question was, "How do I build some wealth for retirement and leave something to my kids?" Okay? And the

answer is you get rid of the stinking car payment. That's the step one. So, we got to get the thing paid off or sell it and move down so that we can get that one paid off even faster. When you are 100% debtree, then we're going to go back to the $1,000 account. And baby step three is three to six months of expenses. Let's call that 10 or $15,000 for you.

>> Okay. >> Now, with your income and no payments

and 15,000 in the bank, life feels

different already. Agreed.

>> Yes. It's just my expenses are so high.

My rent is 2,000 a month. My daycare is

almost 3,000 a month. >> And your car payment is 700 a month.

>> Yeah. And >> that's the only one we can deal with.

>> Okay. unless you move into a cheaper rent. If you want to do that, that's okay. But when you don't have any payments except those payments, no car payment, in other words, and you've got an emergency fund, then you're poised to begin to build some wealth.

We start talking about saving up to buy a house, and we start talking about putting 15% of your income away for retirement. And you'll be able to do all that because we're going to put you on Every Dollar, which is the world's best financial tool and budgeting app. So, it's going to not only teach you how to do a budget, but it's going to teach you how to walk through these baby steps and do stuff what we call the Ramsay way. Okay.

Which is the shortest distance between where you are in retiring with dignity.

>> Yes. >> What are they?

>> Um, I'm dealing I have a traumatic brain

injury from a car. So, I deal with things like vertigo. I have a a sleep

apnnea I'm trying to do a sleep study for. And um just a few other things.

>> Are you overweight? >> My spine issue.

>> Are you overweight?

>> Um yes, I gained some weight since my husband passed. >> Okay. Is that affecting the life insurance? Because obesity will hit the life insurance harder than smoking will.

Okay. And and sometimes the apnea will tie back to that and that's what'll keep them from keep you from getting a decent rate. So again, something you can work on. Okay.

um being overweight and smoking are the two biggest factors in driving life insurance cost way through the roof.

Otherwise, it's just the cost of a pizza. And those are both controllable factors. Okay? So, long-term, I'm just

talking through your your your 10-year game plan here. I'm not 10 days, okay? I

want to heap a bunch of stuff on you, but there's a whole process you can go through here where the life insurance gets cheap. You make sure your kids are taken care of before you've got some wealth built, and then we get out of debt and we build some wealth and then you're taken care of at retirement. teach them to go out and be self-sufficient. But if you left them a couple million dollars, that'd be okay, too. It'd be the great end of this story, wouldn't it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Is it too late to build that money?

>> No. No. You easily could have five or 10

million when you retire if you follow exactly what we teach you to do. But you're going to have to make some tough choices.

>> Yeah. I'm wondering, JC, for the car, um, do you know if you sold it, what what you could get? Are you underwater on it at all?

Um, they said it's not worth what I bought it for. Um, they said it's only worth, I think, like 18,000 right now.

>> Okay. I They are a dealer wanting to buy the car at wholesale. So, jump online at kbb kellybluebook.com and run a private sale out on that thing. It's probably 25 or 26,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I would just be curious because if there if you can get out of it and get a $10,000 car, it sure would be helpful in this process.

>> Okay. And there's and there's some reliable cars at that price point because >> not forever, but just to get your life.

>> I know, but I'm just thinking if she's a mom with the three little kids that is going to be a concern. >> I'm not saying drive a $10,000 car for the rest of your life. I want you to be a multi-millionaire and drive a nice car. Okay, >> but we got to get we have to pay a price to get there and you're digging out of a tremendous hole.

Hey, we're going to give you every dollar and the full upgrade to it and a full uh subscription. I'm also going to send you a copy of the book uh The Total Money Makeover, which walks you through these baby steps we've been talking about. And we're here for you, kiddo. If you need anything, you call us back.

We'll I want to hear your story. I want to hear how you're doing. We'll put you back on the air and answer your question if you run into something. But you can do this.

You can do this. You've just been through hell. >> Yeah.

walking through what you've walked through and 100% >> I would be using every dime that I had in order just to keep my head above water. So, that was there as that was there as a gift. see that as a blessing that savings was there to catch you financially that you you know I mean just you really could have called us and had easily 30 grand in credit card debt you know and we would have unders you know there's a part that you're like I could see how you got there if you know your husband passes away suddenly you have three you're pregnant three little kids like it or two little kids it could have been so much worse right and so there is a there is the reason that savings was there and that's a gift and you used it >> as someone who lost their husband and you had two little kids and you were pregnant and that's what it was for.

>> Amen. Can I give you one more suggestion? >> I appreciate that. >> Can I give you one more suggestion?

>> Yes. >> If you're not in a good church, find one in the area and start start attending.

One of the things that people of the book are required to do, and we're people of the book here, is take care of widows. And they'll wrap their arms around you, and you'll have a support mechanism to help and walk walk you through this cuz you've also been by yourself while you're doing all this.

and you need community. So, just an idea. Check it out. We're going to give you all this stuff. You stay on the line and Christian's going to hook you up. We're going to set you up with everything you need and you call back anytime you need to, kiddo.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Frank is in Montreal, Quebec. Hey Frank, how are you?

>> You >> good. How can I help?

>> Been listening to the show for a few weeks now. I'm a big fan. Um, so I just need a clear path uh because I I feel a bit financially trapped. I'm currently 32 years old. I'm working at a federal agency and I make about 3,800 gross a

month. >> Okay. Come off speaker phone. Come off speaker phone. You sound like you're in a barrel.

>> Apologies for that. Can you hear me better? >> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> So, you make 3,800 a month with a federal agency and what?

>> Uh, yes. I have $8,400 left on a student loan and 2,300 on a consolidated loan

and we're about to face major public layoffs within the new year. Uh so my b my job definitely feels a bit less secure than it used to be. If I stay within my current department, the growth feels a bit capped and I don't really see a realistic path to buying a home or building wealth without decades of extreme frugality. >> What do you make? >> I'm torn between >> Oh, no. You told me what you make. 3,800 a month.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Gross. All right. What do you do with what do you do at the department?

>> I'm a program officer. So, I manage uh

the finances of the projects that we uh that we manage.

>> I see. Okay. And um you what's your

degree in?

>> I studied uh a bachelor of arts in law.

>> In law.

>> Yeah, exactly. like it's not a exactly a uh law degree in the sense of like I'm not entitled to write the bar after it.

It's more of like a bachelor's degree in legal studies. >> Gotcha. Okay. And what were you planning on doing with that?

>> So yeah, I'm currently torn between the

>> I mean when you when you were studying it, what was your plan?

>> Uh my plan was honestly to study law school. But the thing is I ended up working immediately after and

>> that was sort of my trajectory at that time. >> Gotcha. Are you married?

>> I'm not. No. >> Okay. All right. Cool.

>> So, are you thinking of just a whole new career path, Frank? Because you don't see growth in what you're currently doing?

>> Kind of. Yeah. So, if I stay in my current job, um the options are a bit limited in terms of career growth, especially considering the the cuts coming in the new year. >> Yeah. Um, additionally, uh, >> so what do you want to do?

>> So, yeah, my options right now is if I do a masters in business analytics or supply chain management within my >> What do you want to do?

>> That's a good question. I mean, right now I work a lot with I work a lot with data analytics and I've been really interested in it and I've become more and more passionate about about it taking on major projects within my team.

So I think I really want to gain more of an expertise within that field. Um if I

do study within my city, I can get a major uh subsidy to uh pay off my my master's

degree and I would pay a total of uh 5k around for the degree and it would also

open up the opportunity for private opportunities, private sector roles.

>> Yeah. Okay, cool. Uh what I would do I

would not go back to school full-time though. What I would do is go get a job at an entry level position in data analytics while you're studying to get your masters in data analytics.

>> Exactly. I would if I if if I'm not laid off within my job in the new year, I will maintain my job and um begin

studying the analytics. >> Yeah. And if you are laid off, go get a job. >> Exactly. Yeah. in the data analytics field and maybe they'll pay for your masters.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, that's what I would do. But you don't go to school unless you're trying to put cuz degrees are not the currency

on which we trade.

>> Knowledge is the currency on which we trade. And so I can tell you we've got

uh 500 people that work for us in the data world, okay? data scientists, uh, platform, data security, data analytics,

all through Ramsey. Okay. It's a digital world we live in. And so, we've got a ton of what you're talking about working here right now. And I couldn't care less if they've got a degree. What I care is, do they know how to do it?

>> Exactly. >> And so, knowledge is what you trade on, not degrees. And so, getting a masters and going deeply into debt and not working while you're doing that or some kind of a plan like that's dumb. Don't do that in that world. I I would go look and get some of the some of the certificates u certifications like a Microsoft C or

two in the d in the data world and see if there's a couple others you can pick up to help you land. Now that actually will get your foot in the door uh because it indicates that you have the knowledge and it doesn't require a four-year degree or it doesn't require a master's degree to be a data scientist today. But you do have to have your brain working in the proper order and know how to how to work through those decision tree models. And so um

and you can do that. I I think that's very possible. But what I would do is just say, "Hey, this instability is my wakeup call. I landed in what I thought was a stable job where I didn't have to think much. I didn't have to work much." And turns out I do.

>> So >> yeah. And hold on the line, Frank. Christian will pick up and let's get them Ken's book. Um, find the find the work that you're wired to do, too.

That's good.

>> Yeah. As an adult, folks, here's what we don't want you to do, and we hear people do this all the time. A hard time comes along in my career patch, and so I

quit life and go back to school.

And there's a little bit of I want to hide from reality in that. There's a little bit of I may need some new tools and that's fine. But what I really want you to do is to take two steps back and say before I spend a bunch of money and a bunch of time going and getting in a degree in some area, I want to make really really sure it is what I want to do. And so a I want to go to work in that field >> even if it's entry level and doing the grunt work.

Okay?

and take some assessments like this uh finding the work you're wired to do assessment and we'll give it to you as our gift, okay? And you can buy it in our bookstore or on Amazon anywhere you want. It's just a few dollars and you can take the little assessment and 25 or 30 minutes. It changes everything and it'll give you some real insight into what you want to do.

So the you just don't want to throw a dart at the dart board blindfolded again and hope this all works out. >> Yep.

absolutely none of it.

So don't go do that again. Don't go to the expense and the trouble to do that again. So only go to school to get

knowledge to do what you're sure you want to do. >> Yeah. And I'd say also if the industry requires it too. >> Exactly. >> Because sometimes they don't, right? And people go get an MBA and they're like they probably didn't really even need to. They You know what I And so it's >> as if the MBA is a ticket to success.

It's not. >> Yeah. >> The knowledge you get while studying at a good MBA program will really help you in business. >> It's a masters in business. That's what an MBA is. But it doesn't guarantee success at all. And it doesn't guarantee you're going to like the company you're working for. And it doesn't guarantee anything. So uh you know just use

education to get knowledge not to get a

guaranteed path of success and happiness because it's not going to provide that.

Degrees do not make people successful.

Knowledge on the other hand helps make people successful. It's a lot easier to be successful when you're not dumb. You know a lot easier. So knowledge is a good thing.

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Brandon is in Atlanta. Hi, Brandon. How are you? >> Good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Awesome. Yeah. So, quick question. My fiance and I just got engaged and we're looking to buy our first home and I was trying to understand the So, basically,

we have the ability to put 20% down on the home, but based off of, you know, all the the math behind the numbers I've seen, it seems more optimal to possibly put down less and have more liquid cash available to invest. call it maybe 10% down with having the extra cash to able to invest longterm in say VU or QQQ or

like a large cap ETF or index fund. But I wanted to get your thoughts on it. >> It's not optimal. Your formula left out something called risk >> and it left out something called good night's sleep when your home is steady.

We studied 10,167 millionaires.

89% of them were first generation rich, meaning they started where you are and became wealthy. The number of them that said we were we optimized our home mortgage by putting as little down as possible to invest and became a millionaire that way. The number of them out of 10,000 that said that was precisely zero.

No one does that in the real world.

That's a mathematical theory that doesn't hold water. And the reason it doesn't hold water is you have not risk adjusted mathematically because you're adding risk to your life. So the typical millionaire when they hit their first million dollar in net worth have an $800,000 paid for house and a 700 or $800,000 uh 401k and they were sitting

on a million and a half and their house is paid for. And that's the typical millionaire. Like it was stereotypical.

There were so many of them. It was crazy in that study in that piece of research.

So what you left out was the fact that when you have no mortgage or you've got a rapidly reducing mortgage, there's more peace in your life. Your career choices are better. Your relationships are enhanced. Your physical body doesn't carry the stress with it. And so you don't have stress related diseases. All of these things play into your finances.

And none of that was in your formula.

So looking at it, you're saying including the risk adjusted returns long-term, you're saying if you have the, you know, 30-year fixed mortgage, you're going to be a lot safer with that known variable and it continuing to decrease over time versus >> a 15year fixed rate mortgage. But yeah, getting rid of getting rid of the mortgage

>> as fast as possible. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> Going in my second question, which I I am a long time listener, so I assume you have an opinion on this, but wanted to kind of specify our exact situation. So,

we're touring some new construction.

They're town homes. They're smaller homes that we plan to be at for, call it

four to five years max. We're 26 now. We want to start having children in four or five years. Hopefully, we'd get something a little bigger by then if our income continues to increase, which is our plan.

What we have been seeing a lot of in our area is people doing a five-year ARM due to the fact that interest rates are currently relatively high with the assumption from the Fed that they'll, you know, slightly decrease over the next few years. If we're planning on only being the house for call it 5 years or less, would a 5-year arm ever make sense in that situation?

You don't know what you don't again just playing the safe route. You you have a you have a plan, but your plan is not going to unfold the way you think. One of two things is going to happen. It's going to you're going to get wealthy faster faster than you thought, or you're going to have some kind of blocker come up, some kind of problem come up that's going to slow down something, and you may end up in that house for a little while longer than you thought.

So, nothing works out exactly the way you think it's going to. And so um you put together things that are sustainable and that are not based that don't add extreme risk to your situation. So, in other words, what I've talked to over the years, Brandon, 35 years of doing this is I've talked to a number of couples who did something like you're talking about and then they think the arm is coming up and adjusted and then they had a child that had some needs and they weren't able to continue with their income increases for a period of time because they had to take care of the kids' needs and they got stuck and then they get hammered.

the mother mayi game because they move forward without permission if you remember that old >> and Brandon let me encourage you I mean every you you're obviously a wellthoughtout guy you're trying to look at the path of least resistance in your head I hear what you're doing you know you're looking at this angle but I just want to encourage you Brandon what's going to make you guys win with money it's you guys it's not these like small we're going to finagle the system and get this and that. I'm not kidding. If you just do really boring common sense stuff with money, live on less than you make.

Don't carry debt. Invest in the invest in your retirement. Pay off your house early. And you guys make an insane income.

You're all you have to do. And so you don't have to try and shave a half a point here. >> Yeah. So this optimize a quarter of a point there.

>> Yeah. So Ramsay is I mean like our principles and what we talk about on the show because you've listened. It's pretty boring to guys like you. There's other podcasters out there and they're finagling this and this and okay, well, you can get the spread here and they're doing this.

I mean, but the amount of mental calories and how it actually ends up really truly working long term doesn't end up like that. And so people that follow this plan while boring, right? It's not exciting.

The amount of peace you're solving for peace. This is what it is. And when you do that and you do common sense things and you don't try to make it all complic complicated, it's a it's an enjoyable life. It really is. You're obviously >> I hear you. I hear what you're what you're saying and what you're doing and I and I get it and I think there's like the math nerds out there and they love this stuff, but I'm telling you people that win with money long term, it it's

them that they're the reason they win.

It's not this system that you kind of rig here or there. >> Yeah. To verify that, Rachel Brandon, you're you're obviously brilliant. I mean, the the questions, the way you formed the way you even the way you even formed your sentences, you actually know what you're talking about, which is rare.

Sometimes I get people asking these questions that you're asking and they don't know what they're actually saying. They they just heard it on TikTok. But you actually know what you're talking about >> and that's going to work against you if you're not real careful.

>> So do that. So, I'll give you another example of what Rachel's talking about, Brandon, in the data because what we keep following is the data of what actually works, not the theory of a think tank math, >> right? >> It's not math think tank, right?

>> Okay. So, here's the data.

>> The people that end up with a million dollars in their 401k

>> did not pick on average did not pick the best possible mutual funds.

They picked a subpar mutual fund. There were plenty of funds that outperformed what they picked. Now, they didn't pick the bottom 20%. But they didn't pick necessarily the top 20% of funds out there. >> They were somewhere around that 80 percentile. And so, I'm looking at that going, "You missed it. You missed it." Because I'm a math nerd like him, right?

And what we what the data says, and this is is that what what they find is is

that what they did do is exactly what you're talking about. They weren't that great at picking their the right fund.

>> But what they did do was they never missed a month.

>> Consistency. Yeah.

>> For ever.

No matter what, they put money in their 401k every stinking month. Prom dress,

transmission goes out, kids sick, dogs

got cancer. Every month they put money

in. Every month >> markets up, markets down. >> What they didn't underperform in was consistency. >> Yeah. >> They overindexed on consistency and they underindexed on fund choice. And that's

an example of what you're talking about. They really weren't that >> mathematically savvy or or mutual fund savvy. They just were consistent >> versus the amount of people that don't >> do anything. and they and they have theories of what they may want to do, but they never >> or they try this little thing and then they try this other little thing and then they try this and they're always scheming and scamming trying to cut a half.

>> Yeah. And it's the same thing about paying off the house. We get that call all the time of people have, you know, $80,000 left on their mortgage and they got 90,000 sitting in some fund over here and they're like, "Yeah, but I could be making x amount." And the amount of people we've had at live events, people here, I mean that we're around that we asked the question, those of you that paid off your house, raise your hand.

>> It's yeah there I mean there's a lot of them and we say okay keep your hand up if you regretted it.

>> Who regretted paying off their house?

>> None. >> None. Never. Zero. >> Never. So again that's not in a formula but I'm telling you like when you solve for peace as Dr. John Deloney says with your money that is worth it. That's worth the small percentage point here or there because you have peace and you sleep good at night and you have a happy family and a wonderful new marriage and little babies and it's great. And it's great. >> It's okay to wait a year after marriage to buy a house, too. By the way,

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and ebooks. Go to ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Talia is with us in Orlando. Hey Talia, what's up?

>> Hi. Hey, I hope you guys are doing well.

Um, >> better than we deserve. Merry Christmas to you. >> Likewise. Likewise. Um, I'm calling cuz me and my fiance are in a transi, a very big transitional period in our lives right now where our gift of having no rent with living with family is coming to a close very soon. Um, he just got

another job that'll have an increase in uh, pay, but we also are still working on Baby Step 2, which also just got a little knockup because of the good old IRS. So, I'm just curious on how we should plan to move forward with Gazelle Intensity cuz now we're on the same page and I'm just not quite sure how to how to navigate this this tricky in between stage. >> When's the wedding?

>> Um, to be determined. We haven't set a

date yet, actually.

>> There's not there's not a we until we're married. >> Okay, fair enough. For sure.

>> You don't pay his debt, he doesn't pay yours.

>> Yes, sir. I agree. You can get in all kinds of trouble with that and you don't want to get there. It'll be a relational nightmare, too. >> How much that do you guys have, each of you? >> What's the point in delaying if you're living together anyway? Why don't you just get married?

>> I I'd like to. I guess it's just I don't feel we have the money for it right now.

>> Yeah. It doesn't cost $50.

>> You're right about that, too. I suppose I'm just I part of a Latin family and so

I'd always wanted to do it big and >> yeah but you're broke and you don't have a place to live so that's not really an option. >> You're not wrong. You are continually you're being very agreeable.

She's like yes. Yes. Yes.

>> I want you to have a big party after you get out of debt and celebrate your marriage that happened two years ago.

>> That's fair. And and I think that's definitely worth a consideration because

here's the thing. When two horse when two horses lean into the harness together, you can pull a lot more weight than two individuals are pulling

>> because of synergy and this agreed thing. We combine our incomes, we combine our efforts, we combine our spirits, we combine everything. And you can only do that without a huge risk when you're married. And so, um, we

strongly recommend and the data backs this up, by the way. So, um, yeah, to to

go ahead and get married. Lots and lots of couples in lots of generations just get married and didn't have a big party and didn't have a, you know, $78,000 wedding. And so, um, >> but the advantage, the marriage advantage on the other side from a from a financial, um, a family aspect, um,

emotional, I mean, all of it. >> So, if we did that, what is your income?

What's his income?

>> Um, his income is about 40,000. It

should be closer to 50, um, since he just got this new job. Great. and I'm currently at 54.

>> Okay, so you got 104. That's great. How old are y'all?

>> Um I'm 30 and he's 33.

>> Excellent. Cool. All right. And how much debt do you have?

>> Um I I've been doing everything combined in my head. >> That's fine. Combined. We're going to pretend we're going to pretend you get married this weekend. Merry Christmas.

Okay. And so now >> Wednesday's anniversary is on on Friday.

So it's a great it's a great time to get married. I'll say that. I'll say that. Christmas. Anyway, the uh uh yeah, Rachel will send you a gift if you get married Friday. So, the uh uh anyway, the the the debt is how much it combined? >> 112 combined. And now that we're getting gazelle intense, we're hoping to knock more of it out, but we're currently sitting at completed 39K

>> already. Good. Okay. Yes, sir. And what was the IRS hiccup?

>> Um the hiccup was filing 2024 late. um

in addition to being in the process of paying off 2023 cuz he was an independent contractor and that >> is that in the 112?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay, cool. All right. And what do you uh uh what are you anticipating rent being? Have you been out and looked for the cheapest thing possible? A garage apartment out back of a rich old lady's house and you clean her gutters and mow her grass and it costs almost nothing to live there. >> Yeah, I haven't had too much luck with that yet, but the ballpark we're seeing is about 2K in our area.

>> Yeah. if we're looking for a bare minimum. >> Yeah. And I think you can get off of that. You may need you may need to move out of town a little bit further to get off of that, but it's doable. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> Orlando is expensive, though. It's a wonderful town, but it's high. Okay. And um so yeah, but you know, the thing is this, whatever we're paying in rent is taking away from these other goals mathematically. We know that.

>> Okay. >> So, we want to pay as little in rent as possible so that we get out of the debt so we can have the emergency fund so we can buy a house. Mhm.

>> And the le least we pay in rent the better. But yeah, so what I'm going to do is rent something that is um right on

the edge of uncomfortable.

>> Okay. >> Like no like not really proud to have friends over.

>> Okay. >> Not scared to have friends over, but not proud. Okay. >> Understood. >> Not necessarily shooting up and down the street. I don't want Dodge City. Okay.

But the uh but but I do I not trying to impress anybody with what I'm renting.

For God's sakes, >> I hear you. The the lights will turn on, but maybe the AC doesn't work all the time. >> Well, no, I want the AC to work. You're in Florida.

For God's sakes, the AC needs to work. But the No, I'm talking about it just doesn't need to be super fancy with the skylight, the jacuzzi, and the pickle ball courts. Okay? So, we don't need any of that crap.

What we need to do is get out of debt and a place to live and and celebrate our new marriage. And so, our our first year of marriage. And so, that that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. And I think you're going to be just fine if you do that and get on a beans and rice rice and beans budget.

>> I agree. Now tell me this cuz I need first laughs in security to find one of these cheaper places assuming it's actually not somebody's uh back back door um >> uh extra bedroom. So do we pause on baby

step two to save for that?

>> Yes. And and but but I but but before I say for it, I would go find the actual place, not go on not go on theory of what I think is going to happen.

>> Cuz if you might find an actual place that doesn't have both first and last, >> okay? >> There are they're out there. There are people that want to rent places right now. >> Okay? >> And there's a saying in the real estate business, if someone comes to look at your piece of real estate in December, they're a serious candidate.

>> Okay? >> Tire kickers are not out looking at open houses on December.

Guess my odds are good. Hopefully, we'll we'll >> Well, they're going to they're going to treat you like you're a serious customer because you are.

>> Yes. >> Yeah, >> definitely. >> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. So, you're going you're going to be able to you're going to be able to talk him into popping you're going to be able to talk him into getting married?

>> Yeah, I I think so. No, no, no. We've been together for for eight years already. So, I'm the one that's holding everything up. >> Yeah. It's time to paint or get off the ladder. Yeah. Really?

>> Yeah. >> Yes, sir.

>> You're awesome. You're fun to talk to.

She's like, "Listen, I'm Latin. I I want a big party and I'm Hey, I'm a hillbilly. I want a big party. I don't disagree with that. Whatever. That's not an ethnic thing. That's a party thing." >> So, I love it. Good for you. She's fun.

She's fun. They're going to do great.

And yeah, it's just time to get real serious about all this stuff. Hang on.

We're going to give you uh every dollar and sign you up for that as our wedding gift. Okay. >> Yeah. And for people listening to kind of circle back on one of those points, even though Talia, I don't wish this upon you.

I don't think it's going to happen in your situation, but we do see couples and they they combine it and then it's the ex- fiance we get the call about, you know, two years later >> without being married. >> Without being married, um, you know, and then there's an ex- fiance in the picture two years later for something and they've >> used all their hard-earned money to clean up his IRS debt. You know what I mean? So, there is something very true about the separation until you're married because you have no legal protection at all.

um, yeah, there's big on that. So those of you listening, I don't think Talia, I think you guys will. I think you've been together eight years, all the things. That's wonderful.

And I think it'll happen for you guys. But for people listening, >> even if you are engaged, there are such a thing as an ex fiance and you spend a lot of your hardearned money paying off his smallest debt because his happened to be the smallest and the debt snowball when you combine them >> and your money goes to, you know, his debt. And then you break up and you're like, man, that was 12K that could have been going to mine, you know. So, >> and if you get married on Friday, you'll be getting married on Rachel Cruz and Winston's anniversary.

>> That's right. December 19. >> That's a big deal. You can you can just say that.

>> I'm telling you though, a winter wedding, it's underrated. Everyone wants the summer and the spring. A holiday wedding, it's so fun.

>> And the uh >> look, we got the wedding gifts kind of got combined with the >> Christmas gifts. No, that didn't happen, did it? >> I don't think so. We left y'all on We left the family on Christmas and went on honeymoon. >> No, I was talking about the wedding gifts. >> Oh, >> your wedding gift? Yes.

>> No, no, no, no. >> Say you pay for my wedding. So, thank you for that. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Kristen in Ohio. How should I deal with the issue of Christmas gifts for teachers? I have four children who have multiple teachers for physical education and music plus their cafeteria workers, teachers, support staff, uh I mean all of it. So I understand and appreciate that they are hardworking professionals, but we're still on baby step three. Is it okay to skip this until we're in better financial terms for our family? Um yeah,

I mean I would say for a year or so. I mean I still think appreciation is wonderful and I still think honestly a lot of people in that position I'm like yes, nice teacher gifts. That is one thing I prioritize on the other side of baby step three because I very very much

really >> appreciate our teachers. Oh, I love them. Yeah, I >> I love them and appreciate them. I've never given any of them a gift. >> Well, you haven't. Mom did, girl.

>> Did she really? Did she really? >> Yes. Yes.

>> I had no idea. I I I'm generous. I like giving gifts, but that just wasn't on my list. I mean, I I like giving the garbage man a bunch of money. I like doing that. I a big tip at Christmas time because you take out the garbage.

Yes. Yeah, they got a whole interact with the teachers now. >> I do that. That one I did. >> I love giving teachers nice gifts cuz Yes. >> Okay, that's cool. I like the teachers.

I love them. I'm happy with them. Yeah, >> that's interesting. >> Okay, >> I guess I guess I'm the I'm so old it's like an apple.

>> No, I just think you were teaching FPU classes at the Holiday Inn. Mom was >> raising kids in elementary school. I think that was >> that's it. >> Yeah, I I would not that would not be a huge guilt trip thing for me.

it would just be. But for sure, >> when you have the opportunity to, it's great. And I and honestly, people in this position, yes, do they love a nice gift? Absolutely.

and some cookies that you've made. I mean, the at least it's the recognition, honestly, that >> a nice letter.

>> Yes. >> Clearly stating what you have appreciated is worth more than $20. And

then something homemade or something, you know. >> Definitely make some cookies. Definitely make some cookies. >> Um, >> that's it though. I mean that's I >> I'm having like a flashback childhood memory. Do you I remember this. You probably don't. I remember in the third grade Mrs. White >> remember Mrs. White >> her Christmas gift >> was your book financial peace. I think

we gave your book. >> That was that was your mother. I wouldn't have done that. >> Christmas gift.

>> I definitely didn't do that. That's so much ego. I couldn't do that. Here's my book. Yeah. That no one has yet read. No one knows who we are and no one cares about. marketing. >> If you need something to light the fire in the fireplace tonight, you can use this paper. >> Yeah. I don't No, that's gross.

>> I do. I do. >> At least your mother was proud of it. Oh my gosh.

>> Laura is in Jacksonville, Florida. Help us, Laura. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so my question is, my husband and I

received our escrow analysis today and we are going to be short $2,400.

So we either can pay that upfront or have it rolled into our payment. And I'm wondering what is the best thing to do?

>> First and foremost, do a full audit on the thing because most of those are calculated poorly.

So what happened with ours was our we just got our mortgage literally last November. So when we had it for a year, they underestimated our property taxes number one. And then number two, we forgot to file for our Florida homestead exemption.

So we paid property taxes on the full value of our home.

>> Okay. >> All right. So you have filed for that now. Have the property taxes come down?

>> Yes. So, we we have the homestead exemption in place for 2026, but they don't print the tax bill.

>> Yeah. >> Until October.

>> Yeah. But the um >> So, >> wait a minute. So, so no, they can calculate it. Exactly.

>> I called them this morning and they told me they couldn't.

>> They have a valuation on the house.

There's a tax rate on the valuation.

>> A sixth grader can calculate it.

>> I calculated it. I had it already. I have it on a spreadsheet right in front of me.

>> And they told me that unless I could provide them with an updated tax bill, they went by the current tax bill.

>> Oh, you're talking about the idiots at the mortgage company, not the not the tax people. >> Correct. The mortgage.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> All right. Now, that makes sense. Okay.

So, um,

>> so my husband and I are in Baby Step, too, but in January, I get three paychecks plus a bonus. So, I have we have the money to pay the shortage.

>> Yeah. The problem is it's going to be an overage after you pay the shortage.

>> It is going to be Yes. And that was one of the things I talked to my husband about was what do we do? Do we pay the shortage up front? >> No, I wouldn't pay it up front. It's like pay prepaying it and putting it in a savings account at the mortgage company. Then they're going to give it back to you with no interest. So, I'm going to pay it as slowly as possible because it's still wrong.

>> It is. Yes. So like they they calculated our new payment without the shortage.

Our payment is going to go up $150 no matter what because what their estimate on the property taxes was versus what our actual property tax bill they received. >> I think my answer is I want to talk to your supervisor.

I want get me to someone who knows how to think and not answer without thinking

>> cuz your answer is not acceptable to me.

You want me to overpay escrow now and so

now there's going to be an overage and you people are going to owe me. So I don't like saving money at no interest with the mortgage company that because you can't do math. So let me talk to your supervisor. I'm going to become a problem for them.

>> Got it. >> God, they're dumb.

>> Oh, that's so aggravating. Most escro accounts are screwed up. That's what's so aggravating. Um but but because it's

really not hard. It is 111 12th of the actual tax and 1 12th of the actual

insurance bill and we should have both of those in front of us and that's what the thing ought to be running on. Now are you in the hole from last year? Did they come up short last year?

>> Yeah. So the mortgage company estimated our property taxes to be 3500 and it's a

new build home. So they had they they said they didn't have anything to go off of. They estimated it to be $3,500.

Our actual property tax bill without the homestead in place was $5,300.

>> So, you did pay that?

>> We did. >> And that doesn't get refunded. It just doesn't get charged next year.

>> Well, they >> you're not going to get that money back. That money's gone, right?

>> Yeah. Correct. So, we would be paying the shortage. >> Yeah. That created the shortage. And I don't mind paying that shortage because that's an actual shortage. What I don't want is an adjusted payment going forward based on wrong numbers.

>> Yes. And that's where part of my problem is. >> Yeah. That's the one where I'm going to talk to the supervisor.

>> The actual shortage. Let's pretend your payment was recalculated for January accurately from January on. Okay. Whatever shortage there is up to that point. Yeah. Just pay that.

>> Okay. >> But don't wrap it into the payment. You're saying? >> Yeah. Don't wrap it into the payment.

and then have the proper payment going forward. That's the one I'm talking to the supervisor because I want the payment properly calculated. I have the tax bill in front of me. I have the insurance bill in front of me. Here's actually what escrow should be.

>> And when you properly calculate that, that's the payment I want in January.

And until you can tell me that's going to be the payment, I'm going to continue to ask for whoever's on the phone supervisor until I get to the president of the freaking mortgage company.

find somebody over there that can add cuz it's real simp because I'm not trying to create a shortage and I'm not trying to live off of you. I'm going to write a check for the existing shortage but I don't want to create an overage next year because you guys didn't do the math right. You didn't do it right last time either.

Yeah. Because even in a new build you can calculate property taxes closer than

50 closer than 2000 50% off.

Unbelievable. Wow.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that no no nope nope.

Yeah. So, um

it it is not a bad idea to jump online

if you have a mortgage once a year and check and make sure they're having the right amount, you know, right amount in your house payment for one 12th of your insurance and one 12th of your taxes because truthfully, this is what you deal with at the other end. It's the It's the lowest common denominator answering the phone over there. And you know, apparently they

studied something other than math in college or no, they probably didn't make that anyway in 8th grade or wherever it was that they missed the lesson. But yeah, it's not hard, but it seems to be

hard.

Heat.

Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Lloyd is in Seattle.

Hi, Lloyd. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm well. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh, I make about $200,000 a year and

my family and I are living paycheck to paycheck. We're on baby step two. And I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do to help jumpstart our process of paying off our debt.

>> Where do you think all that money is going? >> Uh, it's all payments. It's all consumer debt. And, uh, it's uh, it's all a bit

overwhelming. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you know what I mean. So, >> So, okay. So, how much debt do you have?

Not counting your house. Uh about $100,000. >> Okay. And what's that on?

>> Uh two car payments. >> How much is the first car? How much do you owe on the first car?

>> Uh 2 20,000.

>> Mhm. What do you owe on the second car?

>> 30,000. >> Okay. And what's the other 50?

>> Uh it's credit cards and personal loans.

>> Okay. So 50,000 in credit cards and personal loans. >> Was that all lifestyle, Lloyd, or did something happen that you guys had to take out a loan for? It >> was all lifestyle. We purchased a house last year and we uh got a little in over our heads with the with the renovations and >> decided it was better to follow through on it than to live in a hash half finishedish house.

>> Okay. So, it's finished now.

>> Close to it. I've got one more bathroom I got to finish. It's about halfway through the remodel. >> Okay. And uh how much is your house payment?

>> 4,500 a month.

>> What's your take-home pay?

Uh, I make about uh 8,000 per month

without bonuses, but with bonuses, it can be upwards of 14,000 per month.

>> Okay. >> It's a big swing. >> Let's see. Well, I mean, to get to get to 200, you have to be at 14.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm I'm on track to make uh

200 this year >> uh before taxes, and that's with the bonuses. My bonuses are quarterly uh and they're based on how uh how I deal at work, obviously. Mhm. Mhm.

>> Yeah. Because if it's if it's a month, >> you got a large chunk of your income that comes quarterly. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> That makes a cash flow management tough.

>> Mhm. >> It does. Yeah. >> That's why it feels like it's paycheck to paycheck on. You're not, you know, you're trying to live more like on 130

>> and then 70 is bonused.

>> Yeah. I mean, if I make my bonus, we feel more than comfortable making all our payments. But if I don't make bonus, then it's it's we're in the red.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If you could get down to living and making your payments on your base and then when bonus comes in it clears debt, that would work.

>> Yeah. My plan was to get rid of one of our cars cuz I I have a company vehicle I drive, but I'm actually they're pulling my company vehicle and giving me a gas card and a stipen instead. So now I have to start using my personal vehicle again to commute. Uh so going down to one family vehicle is kind of out of the question at this point. >> Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. And how

much are you putting in your 401k?

>> None.

>> How much of a refund, tax refund did you get? >> Uh, well, last year I think it was about$7,000. This year I'm hoping it'll be about the same. We had a kid last year. We're going to have another kid this year. >> Um, and we also bought a house last year. So that also helps us a little bit on our >> So you're o So you're overwithholding,

>> correct? >> About 600 bucks. 600 bucks a month.

>> Yeah, I guess. Yeah. when I was filling out my paperwork, it's all it's all a bit confusing. And when my wife stopped working with our first kid, I was trying to figure out how to make it so we didn't end up owing.

So, I I actually I think I put I think I have them withhold an extra 300 per paycheck just to make sure I don't end up owing at the end of the year.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. That's 7,000 a year by the way.

Right. Mhm. >> Yeah, that's what it turns out. So, I mean, you're over withholding and then you get it all back with no interest. So, no, I think we'll stop that. Um, and

that'll that'll help some. Uh,

>> I mean, half of this is your cars, like what you're saying, Lloyd. I just wonder if um >> Yeah, I mean, that that's really what I wanted to do. We were on track. I mean, we're underwater on both vehicles. Uh, we have to pay off at least 4 to 5,000 on either vehicle to be able to sell them uh without selling private sale,

>> which is obviously difficult. I'd like to be able to just go take it in and have a dealership take it off my hands.

>> Yeah. But difficult is what you've got right now. That's your whole life is difficult. >> This is true. >> So, we need to do some things that are difficult, like never going out to eat again and never going on vacation. And I don't know what the deal is with that bathroom, but it needs to be either finished in the next 30 days or you need to pull off of it and start getting these bills paid cuz you guys you guys have got to tighten up. Y'all have been kind of living a little sloppy.

>> Yeah. 50 grand and >> Yeah. All of it. Yeah. >> More than more than a little sloppy. That's for sure. >> Well, but I mean even if you're just a little sloppy with your income with these debts, >> you are paycheck to paycheck.

>> Yeah. Yeah, >> cuz your $4,500 house payment is outrageously high >> on your base.

>> If you don't make if you don't if you don't make bonus, this house is insane.

>> Yeah. >> But if you make bonus, you're fine.

>> I mean, 4,500 as a percentage of 14,000 a month is okay, but not of 8,000.

>> That's over 50% of your take-home pay then. We can't. >> Do you guys have good um monthly planning, Lloyd? That with the bonus, like I'm just wondering to put you guys like from a budget standpoint that there's an account where the bonuses come in and you're able to use most of that for debt, but it's also there as a cushion. It's like the highs and lows is what we call it, a fund that that's able to kind of sustain some of this monthly

um the monthly expenses. Like I'm just trying to get as consistent for you guys as possible. And sometimes having an extra account where there's money in there that you're that you guys have already planned out throughout the year, you know what I mean? That you can kind of pull from just to and again low lifestyle.

It's not for going out to eat and all of it. But I'm just trying to think from a I just I don't know. I could imagine monthto monthth it feeling like this and then you're waiting on that bonus check.

>> Here's the theory that I want to leave you with. The the thesis better than theory. The thesis I want to leave you with, the more radical you get in your

reaction to this situation, the faster you're going to be out of it.

>> Can we agree that I need to get rid of the cars somehow? >> I I I think we can agree with that, but and move way down in car. That'd be a radical move. I don't want you beat one car, but you know, so okay, I borrow 5,000 from the credit union. Uh, I borrowed 12,000 from the credit union.

Instead of instead of 30,000, I got a $7,000 car >> and a $5,000 hole from the last car that I'm paying out of. I'd rather have 12 than 30. And that's that's moving that's moving out of that 30. Whatever. Let's just work our way down this thing and say, "All right, what radical things can

we do to shock this family system

temporarily and get this math moving in our direction so we can see a light at the end of the tunnel because it feels like we're kind of stuck like a rat in the wheel by the mediocrity, >> the mediocre handling of things." And so what I want to do is get extreme over here, extreme over here, extreme over here as a one or a two-year plan so that

I get rid of all of this. And then we've got the renovations of the house in the rearview mirror. And we've got no payments. We have an emergency fund.

Then we can do a lot of stuff with this quarterly bonus stuff coming in and out.

And you got a lot of wiggle room. And you can start your 401k and start building some wealth. But you feel really stuck right now. And so what I'm going to do is throw dynamite in the middle of this thing, blow it up.

Let's create some chaos and >> and shock the system of the family. And I and we always laugh and say, "Sell so much stuff the kids think they're next." And we're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless we're working there. And we're not going on vacation. And we're going to be on a written plan.

And we're going to make an adventure out of this. And we're going to put a piece of plywood across that bathroom for right now. And we're going to use the rest of the house. It's $4,500. Screw it. and we're going to get this car sold and moved down and we're going to be radical.

Then you'll be okay.

Changing it up a little, boys and girls.

Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is at my right.

To my left is Dr. Les Parrot, number one bestselling author. And to my far left, iconic number one bestselling author, uh, Dr. Gary Chapman, who wrote the absolute perennial bestseller, uh, five, the five love languages that most of you have learned and heard and used in your marriages. And if you didn't, you should have. Uh, some 20 million of those have sold. and uh my friend Les and Dr.

Chapman have teamed up to do a brand new book called The Love Language That Matters Most. Welcome, gentlemen. Good to have you. >> Thanks. Good to be here. >> Thank you. >> So, what is the love language that matters most? >> It's yours. >> Yeah. Um Thank you, Les.

I'm going I'm going to tell my wife that tonight >> right now. That's the one that matters.

Well, it the love language that matters the most is the love language of your partner of your spouse or your child or whoever it is that you're in front of that you want to express love. And for the longest time, Gary's incredible book, by the way, isn't that amazing? 20 million. That's why I want I wanted to help him. I want to come alongside he needed he needed a lift. Huh.

>> And uh but you know, so many times we read that book and we go, "Okay, they're now love me that way." Right? Now you know how to love me. And this is kind of turning the tables and helping us focus >> like you missed the point. >> Yeah. >> I remember I took the DISC, remember that thing? A thousand years ago, like 40 years ago. I came home and showed it to my wife and she read it and she goes, "Yeah, that's what's wrong with you.

It's the same thing, right? Same thing.

I love it. This is great, guys. And of course, Les, you're the master of assessments. >> You put together some of the best assessments out there, Simbus and several others that have gone uh worldwide bestselling assessing different things.

And you guys have done an assessment to go with this. >> We have a premium assessment. This is one of Gary's biggest dreams for the longest time. Right, Gary?

To >> Yeah, absolutely. We uh you know, we have had a free assessment for for determining the five love languages. >> Call it a quiz. It took >> a quiz.

A quiz. And uh >> and 55 million people have taken the free quiz. Whoa. >> And I told my publisher we should have been charging a dollar a piece, you know, >> for real, >> minimum.

But uh but this one we're dealing with things we don't deal with in the original book. Uh two things primarily.

interfaces with the love languages. And

I mentioned dialects in the original book, but I didn't give any of the dialects, but in this premium assessment, you find out which dialect

or dialects within the language are most important to you. And the same thing true with your personality. And so if the husband and wife both take the premium assessment, which we're hoping that's the ideal, man, they're going to have valuable information on how to more effectively communicate love to the person >> because you can sometimes try to speak the other person's love language and still not fill up their love tank because you don't quite hit >> the nuances of for instance giftgiving.

Exactly. >> Okay. As you know, there's a lot of different ways you can do that. Or service.

There's a lot of different ways that can manifest and that's what you mean by dialect. >> That's right. Yeah. Let's dive into that because less you were sharing with me earlier uh you and Lesie obviously Leslie's on this book as well her love language primary love language is words of affirmation yet you were giving her the wrong dialect explain that words of affirmation meant encouraging her and I so I became a walking hallmark card I was just like you can do it and man yeah you'd be great at that and anything that would come up and it turns out that was putting all kinds of pressure on her to do things she didn't even want to do And uh what we learned in the research was her real dialect within words of affirmation is compliments.

So if I could say, "Oh my goodness, I saw you interacting with our son John and that was amazing piece of parenting that you did." That fills up her love tank.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And for some people though, their love language is words of affirmation and they want encouragement.

that that is their dialect. It's just like, you know, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, Dave, but if you go to Boston, they don't sound like you do up there. You know, they different dialect.

So, we have different dialects in our love language. >> Yeah. I've noticed that people hang around together sound alike, too. Most those people have an accent.

>> That's right. >> So, uh I got two of the best marriage minds and researchers on the planet sitting beside me. We know that money is the number one reason for divorce or at least it man something is manifesting itself as money issues as the number one

reason for divorce. How can couples use this book to change the way they communicate about money?

>> Great question, Gary. >> Well, I think that one of the things is if they feel loved significantly, if that love tank is full, they'll be able to talk about money much more freely than they could talk about it if they don't feel loved by the person.

>> Not threatened. That's right. It creates a totally different atmosphere in which to discuss financial issues.

>> That makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's that emotional safety is what allows you to talk about the finances without spinning out of control, right?

Because you know you're accepted. If you're loved, then you can process it and communicate it. It really does come down to communication. If you've not read the five love languages,

um you need to folks. uh that it's a it's a standard in in the I mean you do 20 million of anything it's a standard right and and um it sets you up then to

understand the other person and that's the whole purpose of this book is to redirect it and go not intake but outgo

>> yeah and and that's another way of saying empathy right if we can put ourselves in the other person's shoes and accurately meet their needs actually fill up their love tank you know the love tank is such a great metaphor because it's so easy to just ask your your partner, hey, how full is your love tank right now? Scale of 1 to 10. It's just an easy thing to do and they'll tell you. Ask Sharon tonight. When was the last time you asked her? But it's been a while, Dave, hasn't it?

>> No, let me tell you. My wife is an introvert and so when I know that her tank in general is when she's had too many people. >> Yeah. >> And we've she needs she needs some space, right?

>> And that that refills her tank in general. That's not a love language, but that's just an introvert >> extrovert. But you know, that's a brings up something pretty cool that we did in this book.

>> So words of affirmation if uh you're an extrovert you want to be affirmed in front of other people and if it's gifts bring them in front of other people make it a big celebration. If you're an introvert oh please don't embarrass me.

Right? That >> oneonone I've got to ask a followup with you two in the room. Okay, so we've got a lot of people that are in baby step two, which for us it's you're taking your smallest debts to your largest debts. And it is gazelle intense.

Dave says rice and beans, beans and rice. You know the drill. If one of their spouses love language is gifts, >> and we're telling you, you're not doing any gifts until you get out of this thing. What advice would you give to that other spouse who they, you know, they're trying to be disciplined.

Yeah. >> But yet that love tank may be a little empty because they can't give gifts. What do they do, Gary? >> I would say the gifts do not have to involve money. >> Okay. I remember a man, he said, "I was taking a walk. I knew her language is gifts. I saw a bird feather. I picked it

up and brushed it off. And when I got home, I said, "Honey, when I was walking, I found this bird feather, and I want to give it to you because it reminded me that you are the wind beneath my wings." And she said, "Oh, that is so sweet.

That is so corny.

>> Might be all you can do though. It works, right?

>> Marriage saved by a bird feather. I'm just saying that is great. That that that would Yeah, it's it is uh symbolic

>> that the the thought.

>> Yes. >> The old the old saying around Christmas time. We always say the thought that counts, right? >> And and it truly is. It's uh >> uh there was a guy we did a thousand years ago. You guys probably remember the book writing letters to your family

>> treasure something I think it was called and um and each year and he sold a box

and you put these letters in a box each year but it was nothing more than affirmation and just other things in the letters but it was again it was a type of gift giving that didn't cost a lot of money but it elicits a lot of tears of joy. Yeah. >> Well and for some people that is their dialect when it comes to gifts. It's they don't want something extravagant.

I don't want an iPhone. I don't want a big fancy dinner. I just want something sentimental. Write me a poem.

Give me a card. Dr. Gary Chapman, honored to have you in our studio. Proud to say I now know you.

I've admired you for years and love the work you do.

The five love languages. The new book with Gary Chapman and Les and Leslie Parrot. Uh comes out the love language that matters most along with the premium assessment be out after the first of the year. Be sure you're looking for it.

Absolutely incredible stuff. Thanks, gentlemen. Good to be with you. >> Thank you.

Gabby is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Gabby.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question is whether my husband and I should pull some money from our emergency fund in order to buy a gun.

35 years of doing this. That's the first time I've heard that question.

>> What is the emer how would a gun be an emergency? >> Yeah. Um I don't necessarily think it is, but my husband does. So, we had a

weird situation that happened just a couple of days ago where it was like 11:00 at night and some guy started banging on our door and he was we talked to him through the Ring camera and he was saying that somebody stole his phone and that it was GPS pinging to our address and then it was probably 45 minutes to an hour before he actually left. uh like he was looking around our property and then he was sitting in his car just like sitting in front of our house waiting. It was very strange.

>> Why did it take the police that long to get there if you had a property invasion going on? >> I I'm not really sure. They um said that

he al like they we did call the police.

They said that he had also called them about the phone and I guess they decided it wasn't an emergency. He wasn't He didn't seem like he was trying to break into the house. He was just looking around on our yard. Yeah. So, you're going to shoot him?

>> Well, my husband, I think, is concerned that if he did come back and like did

decide like he was just not going to shoot him, he was just going to break into our house >> instead of tell the cops to come.

>> Yeah. Well, >> listen, listen. Let me just tell you.

Let me let me let me stop. Okay. I I carry a gun. I'm a gun I'm a gun guy.

Okay. >> But there's no cases like that that I'm going to shoot somebody.

>> Yeah. We just escalated from a lost cell phone to somebody dead on your front porch, >> right? >> No, this is not okay. That's not a It's not the way to solve the problem.

>> Yeah. >> Um the only reason you would shoot someone is if they're inside your home about to harm your family.

>> Not banging on your door, not scaring you, not all of that. You don't go out in the front yard and wave your gun around because he's sitting in your driveway. You call the cops six times and say, "Get your butt over here. One of us is in danger, and I'm not sure which one it is, but you got you jack the police up and let them do their job." >> But you don't wander out in the front yard, you'll get shot.

>> Yeah. I think he's just concerned that if something were like worse were to happen and somebody were to break into our house, he's like, "If if we don't have it now, we're not going to be able we're not going to want to wait until something worse happens." I guess is where he's coming from. But I'm I'm with you. I I really What is your what is your household income?

>> Um, so annual is about 85,000, but our

monthly income during the winter a lot it's pretty heavily um it's higher in the summer. So during the winter we make about $4 to $5,000 a month.

>> Okay. All right. Um

because I don't like his attitude about

handling a firearm. I'm not going to tell you to buy a gun >> because I think you're going to get yourself in uh in a lifetime of hurt if

you handle these situations with a firearm. >> Uh you don't use a firearm unless someone is about to die.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. That's you just don't I mean it's not that's not what that's for. And he's this guy on the Ring doorbell thing is not even close to that.

This is people like that that when they get shot that's when you go to jail, >> right? >> That's not or you spend a million dollars trying to not go to jail >> and because you weren't even defending yourself. You just got spooked or you thought you were a BA or something. And so don't don't do that.

Now, I will tell you that there's a product out there that I would put in your budget to address this concern, okay? But it's not a firearm.

Oh, >> okay. >> By RNA. And it'll cost you about 500 bucks. And it shoots a projectile that can either be pepper spray or a hard projectile that if you shoot someone with it, they will wish they had been shot. They'll go down, but they're not going to die. It's non-lethal. But if your husband pulls a Glock and empties a Glock into the guy's windshield cuz he freaks out, he's going to jail,

>> right? >> So that ain't cool. And you buy a Glock for about 500 bucks. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> But so either one will do the job. And you can do that in your budget. It's not an emergency though. But the fact that you all are reacting to this situation emotionally and actually calling this an emergency means you need to rethink how you're going to defend your home.

>> Yeah. And I I got to tell you,

I again, I have a gun on my person most

of the time, but the chances of me pulling it out are zero. I will run away. >> Mhm. >> I'm not going to shoot somebody.

>> Yeah. >> I'm I'm But it's just too there's just too much involved >> and it's not it's not the answer. And and you know, the only time is if one of my grandkids or my kids or somebody was in danger. My wife was in danger. Um,

>> yeah, >> but that's not that's the only the only way. And it would not be that I was scared of somebody knocking at my front door. I'm going to be on 911 talking to

dispatch until somebody rolls up on this boy and puts him down. He doesn't be running around my front yard scaring my wife and me. This guy needs to go down. And you

know, you guys did not communicate with law enforcement accurately and and urgently enough to get some reaction.

People don't need to be squirreling around my dad gum house. I don't care if

he's drunk. I don't care if he's got the wrong address or whatever with a cell

phone. Doesn't matter. All that stuff doesn't matter. You can't bust up on somebody's house like that without consequences. And so put but put law enforcement on that for God's sakes. No.

Buying a firearm for self-p protection is not an emergency. What is an emergency is changing your situation. So that if you need to spend some money on changing your situation so that you don't have this emergency, like you don't live there anymore, you move or something like that. If you've got a place that's unsafe, then I would do that. But I'm not going to, you know, build Fort Knox over here and stick, you

know, AR barrels out of every window to protect my house. No, we're not doing that. that that's just not a good use of your of your life. You should be doing

something other than that with your life. Um, so and and I'm about as gun

about as much a gun guy as anybody you'll ever talk to. So don't misunderstand. I'm not anti-2A. I'm anti-shooting people. Hello. That's a

bad idea.

Maxi is with us. Maxi is in Knoxville.

Hi Maxi. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you. >> What's up? >> I'm doing well. >> Good. How can we help? My yes, my husband and I owe about a year ago in here to just over a million dollars um in assets, including a home. And after

paying off the home and the debts that that family member left behind, we have

approximately $288,000 left in investments and um including our

personal cash. So, we've rolled that into a uh an S&P 500 account, which

stands about 22 two $220,000, excuse me.

And my husband and I have about $127,000

in personal debt, and we're wondering if

we should go ahead and pay off that debt. My husband wants to jump jump the gun and and do it, wipe it out. Um that personal debt includes student loans, cars, and um some home repairs. Um, or if we go a little bit of a slower approach and do a snowball method with our debts and do it that way.

>> What's your household income?

>> Combined 120,000.

>> Okay. And you kept the other house and it's paid for.

>> Yes. Uh, my husband and I were renting an apartment before. So >> So you're moving into the paid for house? >> Yes, we paid it off. >> Okay. And that was the family home or that was a family home or whatever that you inherited.

Yes. >> Okay, I got you. I got the picture now.

Okay. So, here's the problem.

Mathematically, you should pay off all the debt today.

Okay? And then from this point forward, take all the payments and live on a written budget and start investing aggressively because you don't have a house payment. You don't have $127,000 worth of bull crap payments. and you put all the bull crap payments and the old house payment or rent payment into one lump and that starts going back into that S&P or back into some good mutual funds with a Smart Invest Pro and you'll be back to 200,000 in a heartbeat.

>> Mhm.

>> If you change the way you've handled money to this point, if you keep handling money the way you've handled to this point, in four years you're going to be back in debt again. Cuz every time I want something, I go get it.

>> No way. You got to stop that. No more

buying crap unless you have the money

ever.

>> And if you can't pinky swear and spit shake and write that down in blood and both of you agree to it and we're going to be on a written budget the rest of our lives, then you're going to screw this up by going back into debt by not changing you. So change your habits. If

you're both convinced you can do that, then I'd pay off the debt.

Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 5 6

and 7. Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

James Clear says, "Worrying about the future is like watching a leaf fall and trying to predict where it will land.

Stop trying to guess where the wind will blow and get to work." Amen.

One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. And we just heard this from Claire and Winston. This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app, and I'm amazed at how much money we found.

We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500

extra margin each month to put toward our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back. Man, that's great, you guys. Hey, folks, you can do this, too.

You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download our Every Dollar Budgeting app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Jen is in

Jamaica. Hi, Jen. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm a 13-year teacher and I've

saved up about $200,000.

Um, and I'm trying to figure out how to

best invest this. I don't have any retirement. Um, because I'm an international teacher, there are no 401ks. So, it's just intimidating to try to figure out where do I put all of that money, but I know I need to.

>> You're a US citizen?

I am. Yes. >> Okay. You're filing taxes in the US?

>> No, because I live overseas and I'm claimed as a resident overseas, I don't have to pay US taxes.

>> Okay. Uh Roth IRA is based on earned

income. And I suspect that would mean

even if you're a citizen, an earned income that is reported to the IRS. So, I don't know, but I don't think you're going to qualify for that.

>> I'd have to double >> I don't think I do either. Yeah, >> I would have to double check that. So, I mean, you're you're left then with just buying mutual funds.

>> And as a US citizen abroad, you can do that without any trouble.

>> I just don't know how to get started with that. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, what I what I would do

is sit you with a financial adviser or get you on the phone with a financial advisor. Um, Ramsey vest a smartvetor

pro and and uh on ramiesolutions.com. I

they don't work for me, but they're people that we have vetted that are in the investing community. And the main thing we make sure they do is that they have the heart of a teacher, meaning they're going to teach you what your options are. And I do not know

what their what their licensing rules are regarding an international investment, but as I as I remember it,

um the since you're a US citizen, they probably can do the investment for you. So, what I would do is just pick Nashville where I live >> because I I know I don't have one in Kingston, Jamaica. I'm 100% sure. Okay.

So, um pick Nashville and get in touch with them and ask them >> if there's something they can do to help you get started investing. If they can, that's your best route.

>> Okay. >> All right. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead.

Oh, I was just going to ask the other thing that I was because because we are international, we move a lot. don't currently have a home and I've liked that cuz I don't I'm not We used to but we got rid of it. I'm just trying to decide is that something that would you think that that's okay and that we're just putting things into >> I think that's fine.

>> Like are you planning to retire in the States? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So at some point we've got to have a home fund. So, let's call it the magic

65 or 70 years old or whatever. We buy a

home for cash and we still have a nest

egg beyond that to live on for the rest of our lives for retirement because your home is your largest item in retirement

in your budget and to not have it paid for destabilizes your retirement.

So I would just have a target of saying when we call this foreign teaching quits and come to the states to retire, >> you know, we need to have a big pile of money in a mutual fund to buy a house and another big pile of money in some mutual funds to live off of. And that so

this is our overall. So in other words, you're paying yourself you're investing 15% of your income or more for your

retirement and then you're also paying yourself a house payment into another fund.

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. >> So, that that fund is going to be enough to buy you a house later. Um, so hopefully the Smart Investor Pros can help you as a fallback rather than just having it sitting in savings. There there's a thing called um

I hate the phrase, but I'm going to use it. Passive investing. Okay. So, the

average of the stock market is the S&P 500. Have you heard that?

>> Yes. The S&P 500 index funds do what the

market does. No better, no worse. And

you can just reach over to Fidelity or Vanguard or American or somebody and buy that. You could just jump online and buy that and you'd have 200 grand in there

ra and it would be going up what the stock market does. No better, no worse.

Now, I don't I have some parked in that that I'm using to save to buy some real estate later. Um, but I also have

regular retirement investments in the four types of mutual funds I talk about called growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international that I buy through my Smart Investor Pro. All right. But if if you want to do a a dumbed down version that's much

better than doing nothing, that would be

just put it all in an S&P 500.

>> Okay? and you can do that online and you won't have any trouble doing that.

>> Um, but that's your worst case scenario.

And just to, you know, the market is average between 10 and 12 a year depending on what you read and who you believe. I I see up I see 11.8 is the average that the S&P's done for 70 years. And see, that's a lot better than a 3% high yield savings.

>> Right. Right. And this calendar year

>> today, at this moment, the S&P for this for this calendar year is up 17%. That's

not normal. That's unusually good. But >> right, >> you know, instead of three, you could have made 17. And so that's a $35,000

error >> with 200 grand. Okay. So that that's what I mean. At least do that.

If the other thing if they if you call the other people and they go, "Nope, can't help you. We're not licensed. We can't do it. you can't do it the way you are, you don't have a US address, I can't help you, all that.

Then then just jump online and buy an S&P. >> Okay? Yeah. >> At least let at least it'll grow.

And the good news is it doesn't usually generate much income tax on the growth until you sell it. And when you do sell it, it's actually a capital gains rate rather than personal income rate. So, it's it's a great investment tool if you don't have anything else available kind of a thing or if you've maxed out all retirement but you don't have you don't have much available because of your situation. Very interesting.

Good question. Thanks for calling us. Merry Christmas to you. Cindy's in Charleston, South Carolina.

>> Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. I am in need I am in need of your

wise counsel about retiring at age 62

instead of waiting um for a few more

years. >> Okay. What's how how large is your nest egg?

>> We have 1.5 million in investments and I

have 135,000 in my TSP which is the

government equivalent of 401k.

>> I'm familiar. And then we have 45,000

in high yield savings account >> and no debt.

>> No debt. No sir. >> House paid off.

>> House is paid off. It's worth about 335,000.

Um, another part of this equation is that when I do retire, we would like to

move closer to our grandchildren. So

that may involve spending a little bit of our nest egg for that move.

>> What do you make?

>> 150,000. >> What does he make?

>> My husband is already um medically

retired. >> Ah, okay. >> Um so he's got >> disability drawing. So yes, sir. Yes.

>> All right. Um

well, here's a good rule of thumb. I was just talking to the other lady about mutual funds. Okay. If you've got the mar if you've got your stuff invested in that 1.2 and it averages what the market

has averaged 11.8.

Okay. >> Yes. >> Let's call it 12 for easy math right now. >> And you leave 4% in there every year and took off 8%. The mar the nest egg on

average will grow at the rate of inflation. So if you can live off of 8% of that nest egg or a little less, you

can make it pretty fine.

If you want to add, if you want to work a few more years, you can obviously double it again and have live more than pretty fine. Either way is fine with me.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 67. Financial Wisdom Replaces Fear With Peace | June 12, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work that they love, and create

actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour.

My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Lisa is in New York. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the Ramsay Show. Hi Dave. What what

an honor and I can't even believe I got through. I will make it quick. Um, I am

a divorced now single woman. Was in a

relationship with a man for seven years.

He needed to borrow money. I know how you feel about that, but I did it anyway because I thought we were going for the long haul. $200,000 later, he lost all

the money. He was doing some crypto something. Lost all the money. Um, he

has since ended the relationship. So now I am out $200,000, which was basically the

majority of what I had. Um, I gave the money with my heart so I can say I'm leaving it in God's hands. If I get the money back, he is making monthly payments, but he's basically just paying me back the interest at this point. But with the money that I do have left to my name, I'm 55 years old and I approximately have $95,000

left to my name. Um, I would like to

know how can I make that money work

better for me so that I'm not working

forever and ever and ever, which I may have to be, but I want to make sure that I'm doing the right thing with what I have left. Wow. That's a sad story of

how we got here.

It is. It is. And um, I really thought that I was going to be going the long haul with I still love him. I'm still in contact with him, obviously.

Um, he has his own financial problems.

Obviously, I think Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And

I You kind of got that part figured out, I hope. Yeah. All right. The good news is he's in the rearview mirror. The bad news is we're $200,000 poorer. The other news is this. Let's just play pretend that none of that happened.

Okay. And you were sitting here and you just called me and said, "I'm 55. I got 95,000. Am I going to be okay?" answer is yeah, if you get on a budget, you stay out of debt, you invest in your 401k and plan on working for the next 10, 12 years, absolutely. You're going to be okay right now. But the 95 is not going to make you okay, Lisa. Your work. Yes.

What do you earn?

Um I uh between 56 and $60,000 a year.

I'm a server in a high-end restaurant.

So some days it's great and some days it's bad. not a, you know, consistent paycheck. But, um, I do love my job. Do

they have do they have 401k available to this?

They do, but they don't recommend doing it through our company because they don't match. So, I don't I I save my own

money. I'm not a spender. I'm very very

reasonable with myself. Um, I own my own

car. I have zero debt. Good. Okay. So really what you've got to do is you got to fund a Roth IRA and you need to be saving are are you out of debt completely?

No debt. Zero debt. Okay. Good. Do you have an emergency fund of any kind?

Three to six months of expenses.

Well, that's my um you know $100,000

that I have. That's that's not an emergency fund. Where where is that money, Lisa? Now that 95 right now I

have 90,000 in a high yield savings account which I was making about $600 a month in interest with all the money that I had but now I'm down to like 130 a month in interest which is hideous. Um

and then $14,000 I have in a stock from my ex-husband's

uh work that I just leave. I don't even look at it and it grows a little bit and

does what it does and I'm just leaving it there. Okay, here's what I want you to do and I keep the back. Here's what I want you to do. Yeah, go ahead. I want you to go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvester pro and find one in your area that can sit down with you and design your investment plan. Your investment plan needs to sound like this. Of the 90,000, 3 to six months of

expenses, which is $15,000 for you,

needs to go in a high yield savings. The rest of this, including cashing out that stupid stock, needs to go in good growth stock mutual funds. And some of it needs to go into a Roth IRA in growth stock

mutual funds. Okay? And you need to do a Roth IRA every year. And you probably need to be doing some in this 401k even though they don't match because I need you to start investing 15% of your 65 or

$70,000 a year and the Roth IRA won't

quite get you there.

Okay. And if you start investing that, you're going to be investing 1012,000 a year in good mutual funds in a retirement account. In 10 years, you're going to have some money.

Okay. So, who am I calling? Smart VTER

Pros. There's a list of them at ramseyolutions.com and it's the people we recommend in the investment world. You can look at them.

They'll sit down with you and have the heart of a teacher. I want you to understand what you're doing. That's why we require them to have the heart of a teacher. But basically, we're going to put all this money in good mutual funds, most of it in Roth IAS where we can, and maybe some in a 401k, and you're going to systematically start rebuilding your wealth by steadily investing over the next 10 to 12 years, okay? And you'll you'll end up further along than you were before you met Crypto Bro, who screwed you over. Wow.

And don't do that again, by the way. I think she learned her lesson. I hope so.

I don't think she so the next time someone comes along and pulls at your heart, tell them to take a walk when it comes to your wallet. I know. And that's where people get in trouble though because I mean, she said it and it's true. It's like you're in a relationship for years and years and years and years and you never get married and it's as much liability.

No, I think she had an ex-husband. I think this was a guy she was dating. You know, that's how I understood it. You might be right. I think that's what I don't think they were ever married. Oh, that's even worse. Yeah, because you said I thought we were going the long haul. I think I could be I could either way, Lisa. Um, so he dated you so he

could fund his crypto. Not because of I don't believe that, Lisa. No, I think he dated you cuz he loved you. Yeah. And then she had money that he could use and

he and he believed the crypto thing.

That's the thing is they just it's the quick cash. It's the It's the Vegas of today. It's like, hey, here's the smart investing. Here's the shortcut.

If only it was only as risky as Vegas. That would be nice. More risky than what you're saying. Definitely.

Definitely more risky than Vegas. This is like a sure thing. You're going to lose it. I know.

Yeah. It's just I mean Yeah. And Lisa and the single stock cuz she was like, I just want to leave that. And so I know.

But explaining and understanding that that puts you at a level of risk because if that company for some reason has a downturn, then that 14,000's going down and you can earn so much more from a from a diversification standpoint, but also from the interest rate. You can earn more diversifying and putting these in putting that money in mutual funds, Lisa. So, when when we were talking about the single stock, and that's what the Smarter Pro is going to be able to help you to kind They can guide you through teach you all of that.

you know, we've just got to get the majority of that 90,000 95,000 to work for you. It's not working. $130, like you said, is horrendous. And you said that properly.

But guard your heart, kiddo. Um, you don't get a second one of these. You've already you've you've you've done your one. You don't get another one.

Would you have him still pay her? She said, "He's kind of just still paying me." Yeah, I would love him for her to pay her, but I my expectation of this is close to zero. I mean, crypto bro is going to pay his debt. Come on.

I doubt it. Scott is in Charlotte, North

Carolina. Hey, Scott. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks so much. How you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve.

What's up?

So, my wife and I um were we moved to

Charlotte a few months ago in hopes of trying to find a house and just with mortgage interest rates, um we've kind of been priced out of the market around here. and my mom um offered me the

option to be gifted her house

um with the caveat that the house is in

Minneapolis, Minnesota. And my wife and I are trying to we're trying to figure out we don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and we kind of want an objective opinion on we're trying to balance safety and concerns with where we want to live versus being gifted a house. And we

thought and I I respect both you and Rachel a lot uh just on money principles and and in a lot of other um aspects. So

getting just an outside perspective would be awesome. I don't think you want to live in Minneapolis the way you framed this sentence.

Well, I I moved out of the Twin Cities in 2020 um for kind of obvious reasons

and um No, it's it's we we we don't want

to live in in Minneapolis. Then don't.

But at the same But you feel like it's crazy to pass up a house. I it's it's

crazy a Yeah. Essentially a a house that we

we'd be we'd be so close to family. I have I have two little kids, a 2-year-old and my daughter is being going to be um born in August. Um it'd be close to family. It'd be close to everything. Part of the deal is my mom, it's a five- bedroomedroom house, split level. My mom would get a room in the basement. Um we kind of take care of her

until until she passes. Um she'd get the

rest of her life with her grandkids. Um, and we'd get a, you know, a house for

half the half the the mortgage because I'd be I'd have to buy my brother out because that would be the inheritance, but I' i'd get the ability to raise my

family. What do you What do you make a year? I make 125. Okay. All right.

Um well I I um you know if I were in your

shoes I would not go for the same reasons that you left are the reasons you don't want to return and

you're creating a family situation that's um unusual and potentially

strained with a permanent lockdown. You

don't have a choice once you get into this. You can't get out of it. So 10 years from now you can't do anything with it. you're screwed until she dies.

And um so um you know um here's another

idea. If you want her to live in your basement and your wife wants her to live in her basement, tell her to sell her house in Minneapolis and come buy a house in North Carolina.

I I thought about that. The problem is because my brother and his family lives in Minnesota, I it's it's hard for her

to it would be impossible really for her to do that. She It's It's been her home, too. So, it's Mhm. the childhood home. I hear what you're saying. I know, but I mean, it's it's the same. Scott, would y'all move there because you the way the pros were there's family and all of that. Would you move there if you weren't, you know, given this deal?

Would you guys look for houses in Minneapolis in that area? Oh, they already left. Well, no, I'm asking. It's a It's a hypothetical question.

Yeah. No, Minneapolis would not be our choice, but Okay. So, that helps the answer. I need Scott to answer. Well, we know that because you left. Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah, he's going he's talking about going back. So, my thing was if the deal wasn't there, is there any part of Scott that would want to go back at all?

You're you're a good son and your mom misses her grandkids and it tugs at your

heart and that means you're a good guy, but it's a bad idea.

Okay. Okay. I I appreciate that. I can I can I just say too I I really appreciate I I started Baby Step 2 in 2018 with $220,000 in student loan debt and in three years 4 months and 21 days I became debtree and it was all due to your teaching. So um I know it's I'm I

I'm an honor to speak with you Dave. So you too. How much do you have saved for a down payment? We have about 70,000

saved. Okay. Go uh go 20 go 20 miles

further out of Charlotte than you've been looking.

Mhm. And it's going to start to feel like the boonies cuz it is. Yeah.

Okay. And you'll find a deal and you'll find a real estate deal.

Okay. Charlotte's a good market. Uh but the it's like a any typical good solid

midsize city. Charlotte and Nashville are very similar except Nashville's outgrown it lately. But the further you

get from downtown, the shape cheaper the prices are. It's like if you drop a pebble in the middle and the rings that go out, those that's that's an urban growth theory. As the rings go out away from the city, it gets cheaper unless you run into a mountain or a lake and then it goes up because of those things.

But other than that, it's going to get cheaper the further out of downtown you get. And you'll find something there.

You've just been looking in a neighborhood you can't afford. And you make $120,000. You have $70,000 down.

honey, you you can buy a house in Charlotte and it's not the interest rates that are keeping you from doing it. It's just the whole shift in your whole life and um and things shifted on

you in the economy while you were making these moves around. And so you're still you're still reeling a little bit from all these moves and all the the you know the you left your home in a in a violent

COVID um rioting situation which is why you

left and two two things really going on there bad in the Twin Cities at that time in 2020 and there a lot of people left there at that time and uh and you're looking for freedom and you're looking for safety and security for your kids and um and then while you did that

uh everybody came out of their caves after COVID like a Baptist looking for a casserole and buying houses left and right and that they ran the dad gum prices through the roof and uh and then interest rates bumped on top of that and it's it's kind of given everybody a little bit of deer in the headlights for sure and has been for a while but I think what's hard is his dilemma what I was hearing him say is are you are we crazy to pass up this crazy financial opportunity you know you're not crazy and so that's the that's the thing is that when people get presented They feel like, "Oh my gosh, I need to shift my whole life.

My gut check is everything around that." Yeah. Because it because it's such a huge deal because to your point, the market, the housing market can feel so impossible. So someone like kind of gives you what feels like a get out of jail free card and you're like, is that crazy that I'm not taking that card? But but the way he phrased it is what you were saying too earlier is that he didn't he didn't really want to go, right?

Like I mean like you're just doing it because you feel like there's like this asset out there and I'm crazy if I pass it up. But and it wasn't a free and clear house either. I mean the the ties to family with your mom. A lot of strings.

A lot of strings. And we hear this a lot even with um family members that have like a plot of land.

But what's hard is like you're stuck there because if you want to move, your family don't want to live, you know, with some stranger in the house, you know? So like I mean you you do you get put in these permanent situations because other people build their lives around your decisions and that's what you discover is there are no forever homes other than heaven.

And so locking yourself into something forever, you're going to set yourself up for getting your head taken off. And yeah, and you know there are some daughters-in-law want their mother-in-law in the basement, but not many

as the audience is laughing. Well, I mean you can love them, but they're easier to love from a distance. I mean, it's just that's you need a little boundary here. It's it's nothing. It's not it's not a lot. It doesn't mean you don't like him. Doesn't mean you don't love him. That's not the point. But yeah. Yeah. So, that's a really good question. And the beautiful part about that question is just a sweetheart. He just he loves his mom. He loves his brother and he she misses her grandkids.

You know, she does. Oh, yeah. I can relate. If if you guys try to take the grandkids and leave, I'm going with you.

And so, I'll live in your basement. Here comes Dave. You know, here comes Dave in the basement. But um yeah um yeah that I

mean it's just I I can it's hard it's hard when families have been separated by these uh by this political thing

really. I mean the number of families that have left California and left the Twin Cities and left New York and have moved to other areas during this time is

um it's record setting. It's a record migration. Chicago, one of the largest migrations in American history in the last 5 years and um so and changing the

shifts in population, the shifts in voting blocks, everything. It's very interesting. Um and it's very very real.

But in the middle of all that is grandma doesn't get to see her kids grandkids and they were down the street and that just tears your heart out, man. And I appreciate his heart being sweet about that. That's that's important. And that can skew you. So, it's good to ask in the multitude of counselor's safety.

Uh, I understand why you'd want to do it, but I wouldn't do it. That's the answer to your question. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from

situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right?

If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there.

Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza.

There really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800356-4282.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

Mason is in Huntsville. Hi, Mason.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, hey, guys. How are y'all doing today? Great.

How can we help? Yes sir. I just had a quick question. So, I've started a business within the last year. Um, I'm coming up on a year in business and I'm curious if I should open a business credit card or should continue to cash flow my business. Um, I feel like cash flowing the business is almost holding me back from my potential. It's holding you back from going broke.

That's your potential. The number one cause of small business failure is cash flow problems. Cash flow problems are caused by business debt.

Mhm. Don't don't listen. If you love your business, don't borrow into it.

Okay. So, what are you doing? So, I'm a

running a mobile RV repair business.

Okay. Full-time or are you working a

side job, too? Or is this a side job? I This is a side job. I'm 20 years old.

I'm in college. Um, and I also work full-time as a software engineer. Great.

Good for you. You're a hustler, man. You got a lot going on. Proud of you. That's good. Okay. So, uh, how much volume did

you do in your business of mobile RV

repair? So, in the past year to date,

I've done 68,000. Man, good for you. In

revenue? That's not profit. I know. I know. But yeah. So, how much of that would you call profit? So, profit, I

would say probably about 20,000 give or take. So, why did you How'd you spend 48,000 on a mobile repair? you've been buying tools and trucks. So, yes, when I

started out, I was running my business out of my Tahoe and then I purchased a company vehicle to run calls on. Um, as well as purchasing all the tools. Um, and a lot of the parts in this industry, unfortunately, cost a lot. Um, so anywhere from 1,100 to 21,00 on just one

single part most of the time. Oh, okay.

So, you're cost of the call. I got you.

Okay. Mhm. All right. Um, how'd you learn to do this, Mason?

Um, so I have a really big mentor back home that um kind of got me into this and overall just uh I've always enjoyed working with my hands. A lot of it is just pretty common sense, honestly. No,

it's Yeah, it's as common it's as common

as common sense, which is a guy like you. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

So, here's the deal. Here's the thing you need I want you to grasp. Um,

if you're looking for secret sauce in your business, his name is Mason.

You're the secret sauce.

No one else's brain works just like yours. You're what you're doing here is an anomaly. It is wonderful.

You are the key to this. Not more tools and trucks.

Your brain works fabulously as an entrepreneur. You're doing a really, really stellar job. The only thing

you've got to do is keep from getting caught up in if I spend more, I'll make more. Not necessarily.

Okay. So, what would you buy on this credit card? Because you've got the truck and the tools. Primarily parts.

Um, so for example, you want to stock parts.

Not stocking parts necessarily because I do already have a stockpile of parts.

most of the parts I use on an everyday basis. Um, but there's certain things that I don't carry in stock on me that will cost a few thousand. Like recently, I had um an air conditioner that was 1,900 and an awning that was 1,800, which left me with like 400 bucks in my business account.

Okay, two two answers to that. That's a really good example. Thank you. This is very helpful, dude. You are you're you're like 10 years ahead of yourself.

I'm so proud. This is amazing. So, uh, I really want to encourage you, but I'm begging you to not use a card. Okay? So, number one, I want you to start setting back a larger percentage of your profits

because now your profits should be greater than they were last year because you're not buying a truck or tools anymore. Mhm. Quit spending all your

money on crap in the business and use the crap that you already own to make some money. Okay? Your investment year was last year. Your profit year is this year. Okay? You following me? Yes, sir.

If you don't spend it all on more tools and parts this year, so so be careful with that. If you're doing that, a larger percentage of your 70,000 a year will be profit than it was last year.

Agreed.

Yeah. Okay. Then we're going to take a some of that profit and start to build a little pile of cash for buying parts with. Mhm. That's fix number one. You're

going to be your own line of credit.

Okay. Okay. Number two fix is um I'm

going to change my terms with these customers.

Mhm. Anytime a part that I'm bringing as a young 20-year-old college student to

your freaking $300,000 RV,

anytime I'm bringing you a part in excess of $1,000, you're advancing that.

Okay. Let them pay for it cuz they're going to pay for it anyway. That's what I was wondering. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. because recently I've only been doing 50% um of 50%'s fine, but if

it's over a thousand, I don't need I don't I don't need you to cover my labor. I don't need a deposit on my labor. I'll risk that. But I'm going over here picking up a $3,000 air conditioner for you and I'm 20 years old and in college, so you need to pay for

the air conditioner, dude. And the guy's going to go, "Well, sure." Okay. And just let you know, I I'll I'll listen. Here's the invoice. you just cut me a check for that and then you use his money to go buy the air conditioner and then the and then you just charge him for the other stuff and that's not an unreasonable thing. You don't want to nickel and dime them on little stuff but if you you know set a limit anything above two grand or upper

1500 or whatever so that gets rid of the cash flow problem and if you did have a cash flow issue and you want to dip into it, you can build your own line of credit with your increased profits.

Don't fall into the credit card trap, Mason. You're way too bright to do that.

You got way too much potential. This thing's got upside, man. And and the way your brain works, you're going to be able to start something in a few years, this or something else, and go you're going to go bananas. It's great. You're getting some really good business training right there. I love America.

I mean, you I'm unemployed. I'm unemployed. I'm not.

I'm fixing RVs out of the back of my Tahoe and I'm 20 and I made 70 grand. while

you're sitting on your thumbs talking about how everything's falling apart in Trump world. Give me a break. This is an

awesome country. I love the free enterprise system. God, man. As long as

we got kids like that, there's hope, man. Life is good. Michael. Michael is in Palm Springs. Hey, Michael. How are you?

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Really appreciate it. Our pleasure.

Uh my wife and I are going through a bit of a financial challenge. Really need your advice. Longtime listener, so I kind of have a general idea of what you guys will say already, but uh I lost my

job in August. It was a higher paying job and we have a significant amount of consumer debt about 120,000

and we're considering selling our home

um to get out of the consumer debt. And then also the home, we used a family

friend to finance it. It's on a private note right now that is interest only.

And if we were to sell the house, we would clear all of the debt and then also have about maybe 80 or 90,000 in

our savings. So I wanted to get your advice around that.

What were you making before you lost your job?

Um, I was making I was bringing home about 150 and my wife brings home I'm in

the financial services industry and it's it's that was August and this this What are you doing now?

Why Why are you not re-employed?

Uh, I am I am I I got uh rehired at a

different firm in January, but it's a different position that makes uh significantly less. What are you making now?

uh about 657.

Why did you do that?

Um it was a bit of out of necessity, but

because I did lose the job, I couldn't really find another higher paying position. What were you doing?

Uh I'm a branch manager for a retail bank. Okay.

All right.

Now, now I'm I'm just a traditional banker.

Oh, I see. Well, I'm not in no longer in management. Yeah. Okay. Well, if you're going to adjust your life to your new income, then yeah, this whole deal makes sense. Um, but I I'm still wondering

once you make 150, you ought to be gravitating back that way and not be settling for 65. Maybe banking ain't your thing because that's a big drop. I think you're worth more than you're getting paid.

So, you know, is selling the house fixes

the temporary? Does it fix the permanent? That's what you got to ask.

Buying or selling real estate right now is a big deal. And uh between all the

clickbait headlines and the confusing data out there, it's tough to know what's actually going on because people try to hype it up one way or the other.

The real world is this. The median house

price in America today is 431,000.

That means half of them are above that and half of them are below that. That's what that statistical measure means.

Interesting. And uh inventory is up.

There's more houses on the market right now, over a million right now, than at any time since 2019.

And prices are up. And interest rates

are down. They're down under 6%. So, it's a good time actually to buy and it's actually a good time to sell. So, 15-year fixed is 5.9 right now, just to

give you an idea. And so if you want to know data like that, you know, check out the housing market trends. We help you do this with free tools. Doesn't cost you a thing. Go to ramseolutions.com/market or you can click the link in the show notes and uh we'll show you the stuff that's going on out there for real. No

hype. Josh is in Atlanta. Hi Josh. How

are you? Hey Dave, how are you? Better

than I deserve. What's up? Uh same here

Dave. Same here. Um, so about two two

years ago, I started my financial journey and it was partially inspired by

you. I came across one of your videos and I was at a point in my life where I met my wife and um, my family really

needed me to step up and um, my wife has

some medical issues. She also uh, you know, was touched by tragedy. She had lost a child previously and it kind of exacerbated some issues and you know it got in the way of her job and she was in recovery. Anyway, long story short on that note once we got together I was

able to pull us out and I was able to overcome and become debtree and good for you. Recently about eight months ago I

found out about a massive windfall that she uh would be receiving. and it was due to a legal settlement. And for the

past 8 months, I've just been on a

journey where I've been dead dedicated

to not getting this wrong. And I I I'm

basically at the point now, Dave, where I had my plan. I've been doing nothing but working on it. And I'm kind of circling back to where I started because I'm at a crossroads. I have an appointment with a wealth management firm um tomorrow and I'm looking to get

the money on Monday and I have my plan in my hands. I have all the voices out

out there that are telling me all different types of things and I'm just kind of bringing it back because what you did worked and your your overall life philosophy and and ideals align

with mine. So, you don't need my money

and uh I just I just don't want to get this wrong, Dave. So, I'm coming to you just to say, "What do I need to know?

What don't I know?" Cuz the scary part is I think I kind of have an idea, and that's what scares me. Okay. Thinking that I know what to do. Uh, how much is this?

Uh, it's going to be 4.7 million after tax lump sum.

Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah, that that's enough to scare you. Um, if you're wise, and

you are wise, obviously. So, uh, a couple of basics we can cover, and you probably already know these, is, um, the

wealthy people that I know, and I know thousands of them, and I've studied them as well. Our firm does research on them, um, violate the stereotypes that that

not wealthy people think they do. Not wealthy people think that wealthy people have some kind of trick bag that you can do a uh, a double backflip

family partnership limited bull crap.

there don't exist. Okay. The secrets of

the rich are this.

Keep it simple.

Very I see simple rule number one. Rule

number two, don't put money in anything

unless you understand it.

Rule number three, you and your wife meet with the people that are teaching you. And don't ask your wife what she thinks. Ask her how she feels.

Okay? Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he

will have no lack of gain. If Sharon has

a bad feeling in a meeting, it's the

last one.

Wow. She doesn't even have to explain it. It might be he just had bad breath.

I don't care. We're not going back in there. Okay. And that has saved me that

has saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars of Dave doing stupid stuff.

Okay? I'm serious. Yes, sir. Those are three very simple principles.

Okay? You don't have to be fancy. You do

have to understand it. And your wife and you need to have a peace about it.

You've had a lot of turmoil, a lot of medical issues, a lot of drama. It's

time for some peace.

And the finances need to add peace, not

anxiety.

Okay? And if you feel yourself tightening up in your chest, that's God talking to you.

Take a breath. Walk out. Don't do it right now. If it's not adding peace, we're not doing it. Josh, I want I'm curious. You said, "I had a plan and now I'm I'm thinking about it, but I don't know if it's right." All of it. I'm curious. What What would you have done with this money? If you hadn't called, what what what was the plan? So,

what I came up with, and I'm going to get it wrong because I'm nervous. Half because I got that meeting tomorrow. Half because I'm on air, but I'll try to get this right. You're good. Uh I I was going to establish a trust. I was going to put money into the four types of mutual funds, you know, growth, u growth

income, growth, aggressive growth, international. Little thing I came up with, Dave, on my own, uh,

uh, and then I was going to have an emergency fund and then I was going to look at and getting into some physical real estate. Growing up, my parents had a service industry, locksmiths, and they base their business off of property managers. And you're going to pay cash. I know a lot of property managers. I'm going to pay cash and I'm going to start off small. I'm not going to get greedy.

I would do everything you're doing except I don't think you need a trust.

Really? No. Okay. A trust does nothing

here. You don't you don't have an estate tax problem and trusts are mainly for estate tax problems.

Okay. But I think everything I think you're everything you're doing there, assuming you can be competent in the real estate part of it, which I think you can. You were getting ready to explain that when I cut you off. But um yeah, I I I'm with Rachel. I think that's wise. Now uh the other thing is I I don't I when you when I hear the phrase wealth management, I get a little bit uh hair on the back of my neck.

Okay? So I I don't know what you're going into over there tomorrow. And so just just keep it simple, which is what you've done so far. Don't put money in stuff you don't understand, which is what you've done so far. And if they want to change the direction of that walk, I see you're capable of doing this. This is not rocket surgery. You can do it.

Rocket surgery. Well, it's a combination of brain surgery and rocket science, right? Yeah. Like it's very it's very

complicated. Kind of like brain science and rocket surgery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. That's it.

I mean, yeah. I I guess the core of my question to to be specific and I don't want to take up all your time with her

issues with being in recovery, they're

kind of at a sensitive point in time.

She kind of needs me for at least 24 months. And so what I'm looking at, I'm I'm weighing the options of can I do the work? I have a fire in my belly, Dave.

I'm ready to go to work, but my family may need me. And before I was selling my time for money. I'm a federal security contractor. I make about $50,000 a year.

I'm no longer keeping the lights on. I'm keeping my family healthy and guiding us and orientating the ship. Well, I mean,

if this if this generates a 10% rate of return, you're going to have $400$500,000 a year coming in.

Yeah. Managing the family office.

Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. So, I mean, if if your if your real rental properties are cash flowing to the tune of net net of 10% of everything and your mutual funds

are averaging 10%. I mean, you're going to be dealing with that, which is more than you've ever money you've ever made. Do you guys have kids, Josh?

Yes, we do. We're blessed with a 14-year-old and an 8-year-old. Okay.

Yeah. Is she Is she emotionally capable of attending these meetings?

She is emotionally capable of attending these meetings. Our strategyy's always been the same, Dave. I'm not wanting to stress her and ask her to make all the financial sophisticated decisions. I just want her feeling on the room. I want her to feel the room. And I want you to meet with more than just the person you're meeting with tomorrow. Meet with a Smart Veester Pro, too. Get some other people in your corner. Get get a second opinion or six. Hey, technology has changed a

lot in the last 30 years. Now, the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating. But if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill.

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Larry is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Larry.

How are you? Pretty good. How you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I love

to hear it. Well, my question today isn't really about me. It's about my parents. So, both of my parents are completely debtree. They've always been really good with their money. They have about $110,000 in savings

and uh they have nothing invested in a for no 401k, no Roth, no nothing in their retirement cuz I think it's mostly more my dad always doing the stock market. It's more of a gamble and he fears it. And now that they're in their mid50s, I just want them to retire at some point and me being an only child.

You know, it's so be kind of more burden on me when they kind of get older because, you know, I can't really split, you know, help between siblings and all that stuff. And, you know, any little extra income probably on their end would help because they can't work forever.

So, I'm just trying to figure out how can I convince my dad to stop being scared of investing and finally get them

to start doing it. Trying to convince him that's not too late.

Is he asking?

Um, no. He I brought it up first and

then he kind of asked me like, you know, why are you kind of worried about me retiring so much? I'm just like, I just want you to retire. Have a good life. You see, you know, my grandparents, they've they're doing well. They're haven't worked in about, you know, 10, 15 years or so. They're doing good. And I just want you to have the same thing.

But right now, I just not really seeing it going that way, you know. How old are you?

Uh, I am 24. Okay. All right. I

appreciate your heart forum. You're what you're running into is what's called the powdered butt syndrome.

Once once someone has powdered your butt, they don't really want your opinion on sex or money, right? And so, it's very difficult for

24 year olds to advise 55year-old dads.

Oh, yeah. It's just a it's a the dynamic of that relationship is very hard. It's

very unusual that your dad would go, "Hey, Larry, tell me everything you know about investing. You know, it just doesn't really come up that way." Usually, it's almost like they snicker and roll their eyes when you start talking. Um, that would be more normal anyway. So um you

know the only thing I can do is um

there's two things that have three things that have worked. One is I would pray for them and ask God to speak to them in

some way or another. And two is uh one

of those prayers is who could speak to your dad that he would listen to?

Does he have an uncle, a brother, a friend that is your childhood friend as well? But he admires them and respects them and never powdered their butt.

Uh, not quite. He He has been kind of listening to me somewhat, but I think in my approach to it, maybe because I'm still learning all this stuff. Yeah, it might be. That That's fair. But I'm saying, is there a a a person that's that's 65 that he looks up to?

Uh, probably his parents, which would be my grandparents that I talked about. Uh, they might have more they might have more say than you would have. Matter of fact, I know they have more say than you would have. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. If your grandpa if your grandpa sat down and said, "Hey, if you had parked that 100,000 in a S&P for the last two years, you'd have an extra 50 grand right now that you don't have." That's what it cost him in the last two years. It cost him $50,000 in the last two years, right?

23 and 24. That's what the S&P did if he

just parked it in a simple standard and poor. So it cost him $50,000.

So that that's that's the other thing.

Now, uh the third thing is you can do is

don't talk to him about him.

Talk tell him your story.

This is what I'm learning.

this is what I'm doing. This is what's happening when I got out of debt. This is how I feel different. I feel more hopeful than I did. And I've learned here's what I learned about the market.

I I'm investing in the market. And the reason I am is I looked at it and I realized it's the track record on the stock market. Even though the bad news is always on the news, the the track record on the stock market um is as solid as that house you and mom live in.

You didn't get a guarantee on it. and I want to own real estate and I want to own mutual funds because both of them have a long-term track record of going up and neither one of them have a guarantee.

And I that's what I'm doing, Dad. But you don't have to say and you should do it, too. Don't add that.

So, you're changing your approach to telling your story.

Yeah. How do you I'm curious, Larry. How do you know that they have nothing invested?

Are they pretty open with you about where they are? Oh, yeah. I growing up my dad like he never told me not to invest in a 401k care or nothing like that. Yeah.

But I always I've always heard him say Mark's like I was just gambling. Might as well just go to a casino I you know started learning about you know S&P 500 and Ross all that stuff. And he's known about it for a long time longer because he's been alive longer than that. But he just sees that that there's just no difference.

And I think he started listen to me because I did buy him the book Retired Inspired and I recently gave him two of my copies of Dave Ramsey's books and he's been skimming through it. I think he's starting to open up. I'm just trying to like just there's just like something I'm not wording right where I think he will do it.

Vegas is an inaccurate statement mathematically.

I agree. It's just I mean it's very simple. The market is closer is more akin to single family homes than it is gate Vegas, right? And so you can it does go down

more than single family homes when it goes down. Single family homes seldom go down, almost never, right? Uh but uh but

but it that you don't have a guarantee on either. And what you're when you're investing, what you're learning to invest based on is the track record. And

when someone makes a statement like, "Oh, it's the same thing as going to Vegas." That means they just don't understand the track record of the market. And so there's some interesting I'll tell you one to pull up and look at, and you might even just send him the link over and go, "Hey, I was I was studying this. What do you think about it?" Um there's an interesting uh chart

on American Funds. Go to American Funds

website and it shows what the market has

done and uh they have a fund called a

which is one of the largest and oldest funds, Investment Company of America and you can look at that or you can look at the S&P. It's the same it'll do about the same thing. Uh and you can go okay looking at the S&P in the last 25 years there's been three down years.

Right. Interesting. That's way different than Vegas.

That's the S&P, which is the market.

We've had three down near annualized basis in the last 25 years. That's kind

of shockingly stable.

Yeah, that is. Yeah. So, I mean, pull up, you can pull up stuff like that on the S&P that that old fund is just

interesting because they've got a great illustration. Yeah. And just have some patience, Larry. If he's been saying this your whole life, this is going to be an untangling of a mindset that he's had for 20 plus years. So, just have

some patience. Yeah. You know, it's not going to happen overnight. You got a long project, don't you? When you try when you try to change your parents, it doesn't happen overnight. Trust me. I'm just I'm kidding. I knew this was coming. I knew I wasn't getting out of this call unscathed.

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might not be in all states. Today's question comes from is it Michaela in Virginia. What do you think about the recent government proposals to give a baby bonus payment to encourage couples to have kids?

I'm going be honest, I'm not up to date on all of this stuff, but is it I don't think it's Is it to encourage people to have kids or is it like a hey, here's like an assistance to like a child tax

credit opposite? You know what I mean? Like I kind of see it as like a opposite of a tax credit, but it's like here's a

here's a thing. Here's the deal. If the

only reason you had a kid is because the government was going to give you money, you got issues.

If I could sing, I would sing. And and your kid's going to have issues after you had issues. So, it's a it's a bad motivation. How much is it? Do you know?

I don't know. I should have known. It doesn't matter. The government needs to stay out of this crap. Having babies shouldn't be a government operation. I'm just saying. They can screw up Christmas. They don't need to screw that up. So, I mean, no, it's not. No. No,

no, no. I would go for like child care stuff. How about How about just everybody live your own life and you don't need the government for your own freaking life. How about you go do something with your bone butt? And I like waiting around on the government to give me a money. Not waiting around.

Your life is not going to be better because of the government ever. There's never a time where you went, "Oh, the government saved my bacon." No, they stole my bacon regularly. That's what they did. So there you go. There we go.

Yeah. Kevin's in Cleveland. Hi, Kevin. How are you? Uh, not bad. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Um, so

I'm going to I'll keep this as brief as I can, but there's a lot to it. So, basically about 10 years, my dad died.

Um, my sister moved in with my mom. uh he he had her set up, my mom set up to where uh she could live in her mid 90s

without having any any issues, any change of lifestyle at all with that ranch house and everything. Uh they ended up buying a uh a large two-story

5-bedroom, four bath house where currently they have a mortgage. My um my

mom's savings is gone. She's got early stage of dementia.

Um, wait. Who? I'm sorry, Kevin. Who Who bought the house? His sister screwed the deal up. Your mom, but your sister's the one kind of assisting in all of this, causing it. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay.

Your sister screwed it up. I got That's what I heard you say. Did you say that? Would you agree with that? I agree with that. Yes. All right. Okay. sadly. But um so um basically neither of neither of

them would be able to afford this house on their own at any point. So um my mom's monthly income is paying going solely towards the mortgage. Um and um

she's got early stage dementia. Um her

savings is gone.

um been trying to get it um me and my

brother been trying to get you know things situated in in what we think would be a better uh better better situation but there's backlash from my sister and I think I think

I think my uh my mom is convinced by by

her um to have it. I mean like she um I

don't know who has power of attorney.

So, um I'm not sure anyone has power of

attorney yet. There's not a medical power of attorney.

Uh well, I don't think she's been diagnosed with any, right? My uh So, she

she was on some medication for it uh to kind of slow it down. Is there a will and a healthcare power of attorney?

There is a will. There may be a healthcare, but I was thinking you were meant financial. Well, it's the same thing. Oh, healthare can dictate. Health

care can dictate the care, but once someone is declared incompetent due to dementia, then the power of attorney takes over and runs the estate. Who is that? Probably your sister. I know my brother well my brother was was t my

brother's oldest out of us and he was the one that was uh talking several months ago about going and getting it and I I keep on having to remind him.

Last time I was like, "Hey, did you get that?" He's like, "Oh, no. It slipped my mind. Thanks for reminding me." I'm assuming it still hasn't been done, but I don't I don't know. There there's a copy of that stuff somewhere. That's what you're saying. Go get

I I get Yeah. I don't know. It's not publicly recorded. It's the the family

lawyer or your mother has it in a lock box or wherever the will is. That's where it is. My my understanding is he was going to get going with my mom to get for him to get power of attorney.

Oh, too late. She's got early onset dementia. She can't grant it.

No. If she's been diagnosed as not as being semientally competent, she can't start signing documents.

Okay. Has she been diagnosed as that or is that your just your suspicion?

Um, well, I know she I know she's been to a doctor. I I don't know whether or not she's she she definitely has it cuz I mean, you could sit there and talk to her and she'll she'll repeat the same thing over and over again. And you you would lose if if she signed if she signed over something, you would lose it in court when your sister contested it.

And your sister will contest it because what you're going to do with it immediately sell this stupid house.

Yeah. If you got it, but oh well. Okay.

So, what are we going to do?

Well, I I guess I guess that's a question. At at at this point, it seems like I'm I'm the lone dog, if you will. I mean, I'm the only one that's really willing to do anything about any of this. Um, so I I I seem I I think that I have to kind of look out for myself in this at this point.

What have you got in it?

Well, I I guess that's my question is what if if she has to go into long-term care or anything or if if there's any any debt that I mean, what what kind of liability do I have or zero unless you sign for it?

Okay. If you go over at the nursing home and you sign up for it and you say I'm liable, then you're liable. But if she just goes in on her own, your children are you do not inherit your debts.

Okay. And so any so if this house gets

foreclosed on and your sister your sister may she probably signed on it.

She probably they probably go after her.

But um but you know you're not let's say

your mom had a credit card, okay, and had owed owed $50,000 on it and she dies. You're not liable.

Okay. The estate is if she owns anything

when you die what you own stands good for what you owe. Assets minus liabilities that's the estate but the in

but the heirs are not liable for anything.

But your sister would be if her name's on the house if she signs. Yeah. I mean you're not li you're not liable just because you're the kid. Are you worried Kevin that that you she's not going to have money to go into an assisted living even? Like is that part of your question? Yeah. She's that. Yeah, that's that that's that's part of my question.

My my whole question. Ideally, I would want um I mean I I've offered to to have

her live with me, my mom live with and and them sell the house and and and get something where my cuz it's it's my sister and her and her daughter and my mom that's in a in a gigantic house that

they can't afford and it doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. Um ide ideally I would like all all that uh you know everybody to have money but does she have insurance Kevin? like long-term care or anything.

Well, that's that's another thing. I don't I apparently they do, but I couldn't get the specifics on it and I

um I asked probably a year ago for it and then when I asked again, I kind of got yelled at. Yeah. Oh jeez. And and

accused of some things. So, um, well, I

I don't I don't know that you're going to be able to I don't know that you're going to be able to affect this situation, no matter how bad you want to, unless prior to her dementia

episodes, she had signed a power of attorney that in the event that she became incapacitated, this person was assigned. That is a standard package with a will usually. So, if there's a will somewhere, there may be a healthc care power of attorney and a power of attorney in the event of diminished capacity. That would not be unusual.

That's a fairly like if you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms and you do a will, they're going to have those two things in the package. Okay. That's a fairly standard basic will set. Uh so, if

that's laying if that's laying somewhere, your brother probably has great power here to help your mom. Yep.

And put your sister where she belongs in the street. And so, um, that's where she

should be figuring this out instead of being a dick parasite. I can't stand parasites. Parasites in the family are awful. They're just awful. Just gross. I

get it. So, yeah, take care. Take care of your mom, buddy, if you can. But you're not liable.

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Two weekends are on sale now for the money and marriage getaway. You can spend three incredible days in Nashville with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection and deepen your intimacy and more. Dr. John Deloney and our own Rachel Cruz, both of them are our own, I guess, here in November or in February. You can decide. February

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did I say? $4.49. Oh, I was about to give a discount. Well, I know. I thought I just wanted to make sure everyone knows. Thanks, God. Dave can't read.

Okay. Clear it up. Just clear it up.

Just clear it up. Clear it up before it Before we get out of this. All right. So, check it out. ramseyolutions.com/getaway or if you're on YouTube or podcast is in the show notes. Christine's in Chicago.

Hi Christine, how are you? Hi Dave, how

are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Um about three and a half years ago, my 15-year-old daughter passed away. Um oh my gosh, what in the world?

I'm so What happened?

You know, she was really struggling with uh mental health and um she just gave

up. I'm so sorry. Thank you. Wow. How

three did you say three and a half years ago? Yeah, she died in uh 2022.

I can't even imagine. I'm so sorry.

Yeah, thank you. Um after she uh passed,

I I let go of everything. Um I was evicted out of the house. I was renting for 5 years. Um lost everything. Just

kind of gave up on everything. Um my ex-husband, I was staying with him for a little bit. And then I got to the point where um you know it's like it came to

sink or swim. So I started door dashing, grub hubbing. Um I was living in my car for a short time. Um and I have a family

friend that reached out to me and she was like, "Come to my home. You know, I'll help you get on your feet, you know, mental health wise and so forth." Well, I just got a job opportunity. I

just signed my offer letter. I started a job in two weeks. This is the first full-time job I've had since my daughter passed. Um I'm going to be making roughly about 64,000 a year. Good for you. Um I'm in Thank you. I'm in debt about 30 and part of that is my car uh

my car loan. Um I have one more payment

for a funeral expense and the rest is just like you know um medical bills, no credit cards. I just don't know. I just don't know how to like get on my feet. I don't know. Do I jump into this job and go run and get an apartment? Do I pay off my car? I I I

feel like I just don't know what I should do once I start this job. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. You're crawling out, kiddo. I'm trying. I I really am.

It's been real hard. It's been real hard. I can tell. Thank you very much. I can tell. So, h how's your how's your emotional state? Are you doing okay? Um I'm I'm a lot better. A lot better. I would say probably um the last year it's probably been um so this this friend

giving you a safe spot this friend giving you a safe soft spot to land was a was a godsend. Yes. Wonderful lady.

Wonderful lady. So how much longer do you stay there? Should you stay there?

Is she expecting you to stay there? You know um with me getting this job, you know, she's motivated me a lot. Um everything from getting out of bed to showering to, you know, finding this job that I finally got. Um, you know, she

wants to see me in my own space, but she's not at the same time making me leave anytime soon. If that I would I would ask her what the timeline is she

thinks is appropriate. Okay. She has been such a blessing. The last thing you want to do is overstay. You're welcome. Agreed. Absolutely. I agree. Absolutely.

Okay. And so, because I don't want you thinking three months and her thinking three days. Sure. Sure. Sure. I I want

us to be aligned and then you know what you've got to deal with because your first job with the new job is and with

the emotions and everything is to create a sustainable situation definitely.

Okay. And that's food, shelter, utilities and transportation and clothing and that's it. The debt, the debt I'm not worried about today other than you got to pay the car payment because you got to keep on repoing it.

What do you owe on the car? I owe about

18,000 on it. Okay. Right now. Um, do

you want to keep it and pay it off quick? Yeah, that was like my, you know, my plan. And that's like the biggest reason why I've always like kind of I I I bet to be honest, I've been teeter tottering with the, you know, it being repossessed, you know, like this week. Right now, I'm just shy of two months right now. Behind on it. All right. Job one's get current on a car.

Definitely. Okay. Job two is figure out housing and the timeline. Okay. Okay.

So, is the timeline 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 days? I don't know. Let's figure that out. Sure. And and and so so once the

car is current, then we're going to

establish when we move out. And when we do move out, we're going to establish food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. If you keep all that going, this is your first step to reestablishing your life. Agreed.

Foundational. Okay. It's foundational.

Absolutely. Okay. Then we can worry about getting out of debt, building wealth, and being outrageously generous.

Okay. Okay. But but right now, we're worried about eating and car payments and apartment. Christine, have you written down any numbers done any level of kind of even a mock budget?

Have you done any of that? You know, I really haven't. Um, you know, as you know, as weird as it sounds is that, you know, um, you know, sometimes just I have to be on a schedule otherwise I can't get out of bed. I don't want to shower, you know.

going. Yeah. Well, and I think for the I think the first one of the first steps possibly that could be a gift to you is

just to sit down and we're going to give you every dollar premium our budgeting app is to kind of just create a mock budget. It doesn't have to be for real. The numbers that you type in don't have to be, you know, locked in stone by any means, but just to say, okay, okay, the apartments around this is kind of probably like the average rent for a onebedroom. Here's what I think I can find.

Okay, I'm just going to put that down for rent for food. How much will groceries be? And just estimate some of these things. And again, they're not real life because you're not living there right now.

But once you kind of start to get these facts, Dr. John Deloney, our friend, always says, "Facts are your friends in like especially kind of a crisis situation." And this could this could ground you.

driven on emotion. It's just this is exactly the reality of my life and what I have to have. And then and then compare that to what you'll make after taxes, what will hit your account on that first paycheck. And all of that's gonna and the car loan.

I mean, all of it. I think it's going to give it'll give you another plan with your money, just like a plan and a schedule you have for your day. It's just another routine to have in your life. That's really healthy and it's really good because I think it'll I think it'll ground you and I really believe it's going to give you some confidence to see, okay, here's my here's the reality of what's about to happen when this first paycheck hits and here's what I'm going to do with it.

Um, but I think that's I think that's a great first step financially. It takes the uh it takes the trauma and the drama out of your brain and puts it on paper and makes it look like what it is a non-issue.

Okay. You're you're going to be mathematically you're okay. Okay. You're

going to be fine if you just stick with this. How much is your car payment?

Um it's about 4 what is it? 426. Yeah.

Mathematically you're going to be okay.

If you're making 65,000 just make sure you take make sure you load up the W2 and you don't have hardly any withholding. There's no point in you having a bunch of withholding because you're not going to have hardly any taxes in Chicago. Sure. Okay.

Okay. And so I want most of this money coming home and uh and we're going to get the car payment current. We're going to get a apartment. We're going to buy food.

We're going to buy lights. We're going to buy water. And we're going to put gas in the car. And you probably got some clothes.

And you know, and and now we now we're set. Now we can start talking about going from here. But what that what Rachel's right. When you put it down on paper, it looks back at you and it says to you you're okay.

Okay.

what it that's what that structure does for your brain. It says you're going to be okay. You're going to be okay because I can see the budget, but I've done 10,000 of them. Yeah. So, I know what your budget is. I can already tell you. But I But that doesn't help you. You when you write it down and you go, "This is what an apartment. This is food. This is my $400 car payment. This is life. I

can do this. This is going to work." It's going to make you smile. It's going to make you I'm so proud of you. You're amazing walking through what you've walked through. It's incredible.

Absolutely incredible. So, we are cheering you on the line. We're going to put one of our Hang on the line. We're gonna put one of our uh Ramsey coaches at our expense.

You not charge you a dime. We want make sure we want to be part of your story, part of your healing story. And they're going to walk with you and show you just exactly what we're doing here. And we'll get you the Every Dollar full package and FPU and the whole deal, whatever.

We'll get you in everything. You you're you're you're amazing. Wow. Wow. Tina is

in Trenton, New Jersey. Hi, Tina. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay.

A quick question. Um, I am retired, sold

the family home, and I've been renting for six years now. Um, so my house money

is in the bank and now I have an opportunity to buy a condo which is in the mid200s which will take um a good part 75% of

what's in the bank. But the HOA fee and

taxes um are about $1,400 a month versus rent

which is around 2,000 a month. And I'm just wondering is that worth it? Like I'll be saving 600 a month. um

in fees for the month. So, it's $600 less than my rent and I'm taking money out of the bank to put So, your total nest egg is how big?

The total nest egg um of the cash, the free cash. No, everything. Everything you own? Oh, everything I own would probably be 700 and some thousand. Okay.

And you're putting 200 into a condo. And then the question is the high HOA fees.

Well, I I kind of got a little sticker shock like you did listening to this and then I look and I see you live in New Jersey. So, um, which you got ultra high

property tax there, right?

Yes. So, I don't know if this is high

or not compared to other condos in the area.

If if you said I mean if you if you went and bought a $400,000 condo uh five

blocks away, what would be the HOA fee?

Again, they would range from 500 to a,000. Okay. So, this is unusually high.

It's about Yeah. 800. Why is it high?

Yeah.

Um, it's a a condo in a resort town with

great um No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The

HOA fee is for running the HOA, which

would be doing repairs, maintenance, Yes. and taxes, and insurance on exterior structures.

Okay. If the taxes are the same as the one across town that's 500, then we don't have a tax issue. Okay? If the insurance is the same as the one across town that's five or 600, then we don't have an insurance issue. Which tells me the thing that the HOA may be run poorly.

Ah, okay. Now, this is just the HOA. The taxes are are would be like the taxes are separate.

Yes, taxes are 500. HOA is like 860.

Correct. Okay. Well, I want to know some history on this HOA if I'm you and figure out if it's being run poorly because there has to be a reason that this is high.

Okay? If I don't get a logical reason like um we just put in new parking lots and we're assessing everyone so it's in there. That's a logical reason and then the fee may come down later.

Okay? Or it may there may be something else going on. But when if the average in the area is eight or 900 or a thousand and this is 1,400, they are devaluing these condos by running them poorly. Oh, wait. I I'm sorry. The 1400

included the taxes. So if you back the tax out, the HOA for this condo is like 860. So it's it's about the same as others in the area.

Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. I completely misunderstood. All right. Then we don't have a problem, do we? Um it's

comparable. And the question is, and it's less than rent, so is that a reasonable thing that Yes, you own it.

Okay. And I suspect it's going to go up in value, is it not? I would hope so.

Well, I mean, is the area okay or you moving into the a bad neighborhood?

It It has potential.

You sound like someone dating someone.

It has potential. Well, I mean, I just feel like I'm going from the state of of

of savings account, which in guaranteed funds to real estate, and I'm like, buying a piece of real estate for 200,000 and having fees associated with it still around 1,400 if they're compared if they're if they're market comparable in the area does not sound like a bad idea, as long as you're not buying in a bad neighborhood where you're going to be unsafe or where the property values are going down instead of up because of crime or something else. And so that's the only thing you've got to consider. But um cuz 200,000 sounds like a very inexpensive condo in Trenton, New Jersey to me.

property values there are pretty high.

So but I mean you look at that and if you feel comfortable with the the long-term implications of owning this, meaning it's going to go up in value and the HOA fee is comparable to others and the taxes are comparable to others. I like the idea of you owning rather than renting to stabilize your future. Yep.

Amen. Good luck, Tina. So, you're gonna be a condo living lady. There you go.

So, um, Rachel, it's one of the things that, you know, your most expensive line item in your budget, folks, is housing

in almost everyone's budget anyway. And if you rent, it goes up every year for the rest of your life. And so, if you retire at 60 or 65 and you say, "I'm going to rent until I'm 90," you're, you know, your your most expensive line item is going up every year. Yep. And so what you get when you buy, even if you had a mortgage payment, a fixed rate 15-year mortgage payment, even if you had that, when you buy, you have locked in and stabilized the

largest line item in your budget. So it's stabilizing your golden years is what we're doing. In her case, she's paying cash, which is awesome. It's even better. Way to go. And

she's only got, you know, to the maintenance issues. Yep. And so totally, you know, she the HOA is covering her maintenance on the exterior portions anyway. And and there's no line item there. I mean, besides the maintenance and the HOA, she's got this coming out.

There's no mortgage. The the HOA fee may go up some as taxes and the taxes and the insurance probably will go up some as you go along. Um and make sure you have your insurance reviewed every year and that you keep the proper amount of coverage even if it does go up a little.

Mhm. Um and um property taxes, I mean,

politicians just can't keep their hands out of our pockets. So, you can count on that. And um you know, the maintenance

stuff may or may not go up or down. You can run into all kinds of stuff there. But I would rather be in an ownership position because a it's going up in value and b I've stabilized that more ex that most expensive line item in the budget. And that's why we always tell people, especially when you heading into your retirement years from 60 and above, that you you really need to get into a property, you really need to get it paid off because you're you're locking in your future.

You've got a foundational issue here in your future.

No, that's good.

Open phones here at 888255225.

Thank you for jumping in, America. John is in Salt Lake. John, I'm short on time. Go straight to your question.

Hey, so I got an infant and a a new a

toddler and a new baby and we got about $36,000 in debt and I make about 3,200 a

year and I have no idea. 3200 a month.

32,000 a year. 3200 32 uh,000 a year.

Oh, thousand. Okay, that's helpful.

Okay, good.

I don't know what to do with it. I'm just over my head with it. What do you do? What do you do for different places?

I uh I'm a scrap iron worker. Okay. And what do you make? Are you an hour?

So, I usually make about $15,

but I get some overtime, too. Okay. All right. Well, Target's paying 20.

Yeah. I've never had a birth certificate or social security number, and that's a whole ordeal of itself.

Okay. Well, that'd be something to work on, wouldn't it?

Yeah, it's been a long ordeal. Yeah.

Expensive one, too. Yeah. I I think I'd work on that because it's going to help your employment options because your your biggest issue is you have a very low income.

Yes. What is the 36,000? I'm not picking on you. That's not a shaming thing. It's a math thing. What's the 36,000 um entail the debt?

So, we had different uh credit card

debts and then like the majority of it is I had to take a loan from my dad for the first baby and that was $9,000.

There was a complication. We were trying to have an at home birth and there had to be a C-section and so we were able to

pay for that through a thing called a STOR program. It was 9,000 and then we just had to had to borrow that from my dad. We had had it paid down about 4,000 of it and then we also had to pay for

the surgeon and doctors and then we had another baby and there was another complication. I'm sorry, John. It's a hard time, dude. The answer to the equation is is the things you were already working on is you get a more stabilized, more normalized life with a birth certificate and then you're able to get more normal employment and raise your income considerably and that's going to help a bunch, honey. And that's what you need to be working towards. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions.

Possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay.

Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions, for one thing, are uh nonprofit, which means

that the members, the customers own the

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

And and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and um the deals that they're offering. The Ramsay tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding.

It took less than 5 minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone.

So, I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, "Yeah, they give calls to every new customer." And so, again, they just really care about your experience. And I I so so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

how much I hate banks in general. And so, for me to do this is a big deal.

talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible. Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds, no matter where you live. So, go to fair winds.org/ramsey.

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aldi us. Wendy is in Cincinnati. Hi Wendy.

How are you?

Hi. I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. Um hi. Sorry. My question

is um so now my husband and I we are um

looking into getting a divorce and I am trying to he want everything in half

half of everything but I'm trying to find a way that is more um fair for both of us. So um back to

when we got married um how long have you been married years ago? 10 years. Why are you divorcing?

Um that's where I'm about to get to is uh financial infidelity. So um and just

a lot beyond that. So um so 10 years ago

when he walked into the we we got married and he was in 300 300,000

student loan. Um, so we, you know, I

kind of came up with a plan to help him pay it off. It's that, um, we basically

spend nothing. Um, and,

um, he has to make another extra $1,000

a month. So, which is, you know, working picking up a weekend a month about that.

So, 10 years ago, he came into the marriage with $300,000 in student loan debt. You guys teamed up and paid it off.

Uh, sorry. I I couldn't hear, but I 10

years ago you said you got married and he came in with $300,000 in student loan debt and you guys teamed up and got it all paid off. I wish the team up is um

is the case, but that wasn't really the case. So 10 years ago, I kind of came up with a plan. So he's have to pick up another $1,000 a month and we are going to invest in rental unit and the rental income basically going to help pay off our expense and pay it off. So what ended up happening is um he did not

ended up doing any of those extra hour

which refused to pick up any shift because he said that's not his life passion and uh the mental income he

ended up took it he took it and spent it. So what do you what have you been making Wendy? What do you make a year? I make 140,000. Okay. And you put up with

this crap for 10 years. I would put on

for way too long. And the thing that now it gave me a lot of I try to always believe that you know he just needs some more time. So I ended up working two jobs. I am the one ended up picking those extra shift to help him pay because every time when it come to when bills need to be paid just say he doesn't have the money. Yeah excessively. I got really bad news honey.

I'm sorry. The law doesn't care.

In Ohio, when you get a divorce, you're going to split things 50/50.

Unless there's something else other than you just earned more and he was lazy.

That one doesn't work.

That's what the lawyer's going to tell you when you sit with them. But you need to go sit with a lawyer and find out for sure. But I think that's what you're going to hear.

Okay. That you put up with this for too long.

For way too long. Yeah. For way too long. So, what do you guys actually own?

Do you actually own anything? Money?

Yeah, we own a rental property and also

our current home also

uh the rental property worth 300,000 around there. Our current home worth about uh 400,000. How much debt on the

700,000 real estate?

Um yes. So, everything is paid off. Oh, it's all paid off. Oh jeez. Oh god. Um,

and you did all of this with your sweat while he sat at home and because it wasn't his passion to work much. Do you have kids, Wendy?

Yes, we have a kid. And that's what my my So, we moved to the state where his

family is. So, I really don't have a support network. And when we got married, he agreed that we only going to live here for a few years and then we're going to move to You volunteered for all this. Okay. You can't you stayed put

when you you had the option to say no on any of this. and put it to an end earlier than you did. So, it's now over.

I'm sorry. Where are you guys in the divorce process? Wendy, have you filed?

She hadn't even talked to a lawyer yet.

Have you? We are. We are just Yeah, we at the beginning of it. Okay. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry, but what you're going to discover is what a friend of mine who does divorce recovery figured out, and that is is that divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction and a legal transaction. And the law will state that child support, maybe some alimony, maybe you'll get some alimony out of him, but I doubt it. Um, doesn't sound like this guy's exactly going to be coming forth with a bunch of money.

Maybe you can negotiate a large, you know, let him have the rental and you take the big house or something. You may get a little more than half in a settlement in a settled deal if the judge will approve it in Ohio law. I don't know Ohio law and I and I'm not an attorney even if I did. So, you need to talk to one.

was a stay-at-home mom and didn't earn an income for 10 years, she gets half.

That's what I was thinking about. If the if if it was she gets half and your husband's a, you know, not work much while you work all the time. Yeah. He gets half. I mean, you s you you

tolerated it. And so, um, I'm not saying you did something wrong. I'm glad you hung on, tried to make it work. But that's where you're stuck with, kiddo.

I'm sorry. That's an ouchie. M well and

it it's one of those things too. I'm like where things start when it's starting out all the intentions are good, right? Mhm. And then you start to watch it just drift and drift and drift and until a huge red flag is thrown, it

ends up getting here. But but but that's the thing too is I'm like if it was a if it was opposite if this was a guy calling and saying his wife was home, right? Why does it why does it make us well if she was at home saying it's not my passion to work much after she had made a commitment with $300,000 worth of student loan debt to to work and help get it paid off. I'm going to bring down on her just like I'm going to bring down on him.

Nobody gets out of that one alive. Yeah.

know this is someone who someone else his mommy has taken care of him his whole life. I I was hearing so his wife was his new mommy and that's what happened. He's a mama's boy and Oh yeah.

What a mess. The only the only positive Wendy out of all of this is he's gone.

Well, I mean seriously, I'm like the the attitude and the the mood that he probably brings her down day after day.

Yeah. And you'll be free from it and you may make more money Wendy being out of the situation. You definitely will. You'll definitely will. It is one of those things you just have to It's easier to swim without an anchor tie around you. Yeah. It's just way easier.

Yeah, you're gonna bust out, girl. It's gonna be great. I'm sorry. I hate doing I do get a lawyer because I do I hate people ending marriages, but you know, it's u sounds like you got rid of a Yeah,

you get a you get a fresh start, kiddo.

And uh with or without some rental property and with or without the details on the house, but you know, even if you just p sell it all and pile it up in one pile and split it down the middle, you're going to be okay. You're going to be fine. you're you're you're going to be all right and you can live wherever you want to live. You don't have to live there.

If you don't want to live near his family, take off. Go back where you were. Go back where you want to be. You get to decide now.

And so the the future is bright. There were a lot of storms in the past in the rearview mirror, but they're all in the past. Well, soon soon to be anyway.

You ever tried to explain this Ramsay stuff to a friend? It's kind of all-encompassing. A little bit hard to just go and put it all out there, right?

So, we're going to help you with that. We built a Ramsey 101 playlist.

I say we, I had nothing to do with it except I'm on it, but um it's an easy to

share playlist. It covers all the basics for somebody who's just getting started with this whole Ramsey thing. Like what are the baby steps or how's the debt snowball work or how's a budget work or how to build an emergency fund or why do they talk about God? All this stuff. It's all on there. Click the link at the bottom of the show notes. You open Ramsay 101 playlist on YouTube. Text it,

DM it, send it to a group chat. Say, "Hey guys, I think this might help." Don't go, "You're stupid." Start doing this. That won't help. Don't be condemning with it.

Be nice and just go, "I hope this helps you. It helped me." Or, "I'm I think this is funny. Give it a look." Whatever. Um, so if you're listening on the radio, we got a playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel.

Uh, so think of at least one person in your life and share it with them and it could change everything. We appreciate it.

So, thank you for sharing. And when you say nice things like fivestar reviews and stuff, kind of nice. Thank you. We appreciate it. All right, Jennifer's in Chicago. What's up, Jennifer? Hi, Dave

and Rachel. I'm I'm just so excited to be talking to you today. I literally just found you guys literally 30 days ago. So, I'm really excited. Well, thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Um I have a

question. I got served a lawsuit last night. Um for I have credit card debt

that's all in collections. For context, I'm 38 years old and I'm finally awake

to my life. I've spent my adult years in

and out of psychiatric hospitals. m um

trying to you know suicide due to my

childhood. So now that I've unpacked that and I feel like I'm in a healthier spot, I really just I want to be debt free and listening to you guys like I feel like this is my first route. Wow.

What do you make? What's your income? Uh 40,000. Good for you. Okay. Well, I'm proud of you for getting stable. That's that's a quite a journey. Thank you.

Well done. It's been a journey. Okay.

Okay. How much do you owe on this particular credit card? This one is 1,200. And how long has it been since you paid on it? Um 2022.

Okay. All right. And who was the original bank? Uh Credit One. Okay. All

right. There's a high likelihood like almost for sure that they have sold that debt.

They have sold it to a credit bureau or

credit agency, a collection agency. It's a debt buyer. Okay. debt buyers buy old

bad credit card debt for around a nickel on the dollar.

Okay? And so that means they've got somewhere around $75 invested in this.

Okay?

And what they do then is they buy like

8,000 of these accounts and they badger the crap out of people and sue people until they get some money out of some of them. Most of them file bankruptcy and they get nothing. But a few people pay it and they end up because they only paid a nickel on the dollar, they end up on average making some money. Mhm. So

this is not personal. This is not personal. This has nothing to do with you. You just you just got put on a conveyor belt in a factory.

That's what this is. Okay. There's 8,000 that look just like you that they processed last night.

You follow me? Yes. I I want you to get that scarier than it is. Yeah. I got I want you to get that because it's different than you owe your little brother money. Okay. A

different set of emotions, but they're going to try to tap into the little brother money emotions when you get on the phone with them because most of them the function that they use to collect is being a jerk.

So, they're going to be jerks. I'm afraid of they're No, you can count on it. So, just make a game of it. Okay.

I'm calling a jerk. Here we go. Ready, set, go. It's not personal.

He doesn't know anything about me. He has a crummy job where he abuses people verbally over the phone to try to get money. That's who you're calling. Okay.

Okay. Just kind of have fun with it. And sometimes they even change their name. They make up funny names.

Well, and the and the the turnover in that industry is like 30 to 60 days. So, the guy you're talking to will probably have a new job in two months anyway. So, just remember that. Like, it this is like Okay.

Okay. Really think about it. I mean, what a horrible job. Yeah. So, this is what you're dealing with. And if you have these pieces of information, then it helps you. So, do you have any money?

I have about 3,000 in the bank right now. Good. Do you have Did they give you a court date when they served you? Yes, they did. When? Uh, it is on the 24th.

Good. Okay. I don't care if it goes to

court and they win. No big deal. nothing

really changes. They're still trying to collect from someone that they don't get money from. So, when you get on the phone, here's a couple of pointers. Number one, this is a game. Don't let this get into your psyche. Okay? Okay?

Their job is to make you afraid or angry because when your brain does that, you move into fight or flight mode and you lose your critical thinking skills. Mhm.

That's their job and they're very good at it. Be ready. Okay. Okay. One of them

called from American Express when I was going broke 30 years ago and asked my wife why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills. And she called me crying and said, "I was thinking the same thing." Oh my god. Right. This is what they do.

Okay. Okay. Bit ready. And so this is a

And by the way, that guy's that woman's name was Mrs. Savage. Oh, stop it. Okay.

So, I mean, this is how this is how ridiculous this world is. It's ridiculous. So this is what you're entering into. You need to know that because you got to stay above it, especially with what you've been through. Okay. Absolutely. So this is a game. Number one. Number two, they didn't pay anything for it. Number three, we're not giving them payments.

Say no payments, Dave.

No payments, Dave. No payments. My financial counselor told me I can't give you payments. I'm your counselor and I just told you you can't. Okay.

Wonderful. Okay. You can bad guy off of me and tell him Dave Ramsey said it.

That'll make them real happy. Okay. I get pissed. Yeah. And so, all right.

That that this is just fun. Let's have some fun with it. Right. And so, no payments. And what we're going to do is I just came out of a mental episode

where I've been fighting suicide and I don't have any money. I think I can scrape together $300 if you will accept

that as here's the phrase, settlement in full.

Okay. and somewhere three to 500 bucks you'll get this done. And do not give them any

information about you.

No contact information, no new job, no

bank accounts, no bank account information. They get no information.

We're not going to give them any leverage. This is you're playing with evil.

Don't give evil a foothold. Okay. Okay.

And so, no information. It's a game.

We're going to settle it for a lump sum.

No payments. And lastly, do not give

them any money until you get it in writing what the agreement is

because Jim Bob ain't going to be working there in 30 days.

I'm writing all my notes down. Okay. Has to be email or or email's fine. Has to

be in writing in some way. And then you print the email out, hard copy, and keep it in a file for the rest of your life.

Okay? Because you can tell these people are lying if their mouth is moving.

Okay? All right. This is what you're dealing with. It's a different culture.

Now, I have all my credit card debt is in collections. Can I handle all do every one of them that way if you want to? Okay. Or if you got a small one, just pay it for God's sakes and get it out of there. How much do you have, Jennifer, in debt total? So, I had

$10,000 in credit card debt. I actually hired a credit consultation company and they got 6,000 just wiped away. Okay,

good. So, now down to four. Okay, that's great. Well, then you and you got three, so you can get this clear pretty quick cuz let me tell you, with what you've been through and with you establishing a new life of sustainability, putting this stuff in your rearview mirror as soon as possible and not keeping it, not screwing around with it for 6 months is a good idea.

Is that all the debt you have, Jennifer? Is just the credit card debt or student loans or car loans? Six in student loans. Okay.

All right. And you'll have to circle back and pick that up, too. But I want to get these I want to get the You got all these a beehive that got poked and the bees are flying around your head. Yes.

So, let's get rid of them. But you got to just play this game. It's a part of it. And get it in writing and no electronic access to your personal bank account. You can do a prepaid debit card with the exact amount and send them that. You can do a wire. You can do something. But no, no, no. They do not

get your bank account numbers cuz they'll clean it out. They lie. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. Can you tell I've done this for 30 years?

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Jason is with us in Tampa. Hey Jason,

what's up? Oh man, I got the goat on the

phone. I can't believe it.

Yes, Rachel's here.

I like you, too, Rachel. Oh, thanks, Jason. I know who you called for, though. And you got him. He's in the seat. He's not in the seat as much anymore, but here he is. What's up? So,

Dave. All right. And Rachel, I need I I've got to figure this out. My parents home was flooded by Hurricane Helen uh

last September. So they came to my

brother and my sister and myself and said, "Hey, we're too old. We can't fix it. If you if one of you want it, pay the other each that other siblings other

two siblings a third of the value that we come up with and we want to be done with it or we're just going to sell it.

What do y'all want to do?" Well, I was the only one that wanted it. So, we came up with a value and um and I paid my

sister and my brother a third of the value that everyone agreed to. Well, actually, they didn't even agree because they thought what my value was too low.

So, I actually went and got an appraisal done just so there would be no hanky panky. It actually came in 60,000 less

than what my original um assessment was.

And I still agreed to pay 60,000 more

than what the actual appraisal. Why?

Because I wanted this little home cuz it was just a little beach house that it was just meant something to me. So I wanted it. I paid my sister and my brother the money. My parents quick claim deed it to me. I fixed it all up.

It's back to being beautiful. Just in time for hurricane season again, but it's back to being beautiful. And now all of a sudden my sister says, "Oh, this was such an unfair deal. I can't believe we even did this. I'll never feel comfortable with it." Oh, wow. No

one ever. So, what do I do? I mean, now it's causing a strain in the family, and I don't know what I did wrong. I thought I did everything right. Well, you didn't have agreement.

That's what I thought we Well, we did.

And And then all now all of a sudden we don't because we did. But that's what I'm like. Well, did they did they I mean it was it was all ver it was all verbal.

Correct. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they were they were bitching and moaning on the front end. That That's what I said. No one said any No, they did. They said it was not enough. And so you went and got an appraisal. They were moaning.

And then I my appraisal came into I know. But they still didn't think it was right. They still didn't think it was right. And you did it anyway.

So what should Yeah. What I would have my fault then? Yeah. I would have walked or I would have had them sign something.

Yeah, maybe I should have done a some kind of signature on something. Not not illegally binding, but just to remind them that, you know, because their memory is bad apparently. I thought paying 60 grand over No, not if they thought Not if they thought the amount even was 60 was not right.

Was the value lowered because of the damage at all, Jason? Yeah. I'm sorry.

And the value was lowered because of the damage. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So, you had a number, you put it out there, and they said, "That's not fair." And you said, "I'll show you." You went and got an appraisal, and the appraisal was 60,000 lower. So, you paid them the higher number, but they also thought that number higher wasn't fair.

Well, with just the sister, everyone else. Well, I mean, that still that So, what' you expect? I mean, she she'd

already told you she was going to be unhappy. This just came up a couple weeks ago. No, honey. You told me in the original deal that they thought it wasn't enough.

So, you went and got an appraisal and you agreed to pay the original amount that they thought wasn't enough. And when you paid it, they still thought it wasn't enough. And now she still thinks it wasn't enough. Well, that's not a shock.

And I guess she's going to have to deal with it because that's that she cashed the check, right? Or I'm sorry. She cashed the check. You bet she did. All right. He sure did. Deal's done, you know. Yeah. And no one lifted

a finger to help me fix it up either.

So, well, it wasn't their job. They didn't own it. That's your job. Yeah.

I'm like, and that's and that was fine.

But yeah, I'm like, you know, I just say, listen, you did a deal. You're like a grown adult woman. Act like it. How

old are you guys, Jason?

I'm 50. She's 45. Oh. And then my

brother's in his 50s. Uh, we're older than I was. He's 55. Okay. We were Yeah, we're all We're all older adults and Well, I think I think she told you on the front end she was going to be unhappy and you just didn't want to hear it. Yeah. And then now she's coming

through. Now she's coming through with her promise. But that's okay. I mean, she she cashed the check and I just looked at her and go, "Hey, baby. Good luck with that." I

I said that's kind of what I've done so far. But I mean, anything you can do, you can't make people behave. Yeah. even

if they're in your DNA line, you know. I

guess have you guys sat down and had any level of conversation in person about this? Well, originally when we first but

not since the last thing or this that I'm talking about this was this she we talked on the phone about something else and then this was just was brought up and I'm like where did that come from?

That would have been valuable information. If there's any level of you that wants to save the relationship, I would have a conversation in person.

take all your defensiveness about this,

you know, swallow a humble pill for a little bit. Let her kind of get out what she needs to get out and just say, "Okay, how do we move forward?" Because I don't want to lose a relationship with my sister, right? It's family and for a house to do this. Um, that's not that for the future.

But you, but again, and there's that part where you cash the check. Put your Yeah. Put the olive branch out and if she won't accept it, that that's her choice at that point, right? But I would I would go in.

I'm never going to be okay. Well, that's you know, therapist. You're very humble, though. You have a big personality, Jason.

We heard it from the moment you got on. I love it. I think it's wonderful. But maybe just like take a p like take a little bit of a chill as you go in like low like right like I mean go in not defensive, not aggressive.

Go watch Jefferson Fisher videos and just Yeah. But but honestly, if you really want to repair it like there's there's something there. And then beyond that, you've tried.

Yeah, you can't control her then. But yeah, you probably don't. I think you need to follow Rachel's advice, not mine. Mine's just smart. IC. I know.

That's my problem. I'm more I'm like you, Dave. I think I think Rachel's right and I'm wrong. I think Rachel's right and I'm wrong. Really? Oh, man.

All right. Rachel, can you call my sister for me? I will. No. No. Hey, by

the way, that Jefferson Fitcher uh episode was next to the Trump episode was two are two of my favorite really good. I wasn't kidding. I probably would go watch some of that because that's the type of stuff Rachel's talking about rather than doing Dave thing and just smacking her sideways. Oh my god.

Because that's not gonna work because that's all I'm saying. I'm just being a smart guy. What are the other siblings? I know.

Jason, what's your other siblings like? Would you say brother? Yeah, he's okay. He He hasn't had any issues.

Okay. So, it's you three. Yeah. Yeah.

So, brother's fine, sisters. I know. I just hate when like assets, money, all of that gets in between family. We hear it a lot on the show and it's really sad. It's really sad. Um, so if you want it repaired or maybe maybe she's crazy and you're like, I don't know. I got to put up a boundary. I don't know. I don't know her, but if you want to repair the relationship, it's You want to give it a shot? I think Rachel's right. I'm wrong.

Yeah. Okay, good, man. I'm always more fun, though. Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 21:20.

Precious treasure and oil are in a wise

man's dwelling, but a foolish man

devours all.

That's the Bible saying, if you spend everything you make, you're a fool.

Hello. Think about it. Michael Douglas said, "A fool and his money are lucky to get together in the first place."

Gary's in uh Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Gary. What's up? Hey, gang. Thanks for uh taking my call. Um so, I retired

uh about a year and a half ago. Um I'm 69 and um I've got uh my assets um no

debt. Um, and I'm just wondering if what

I have everything invested in is if if I'm doing the right thing. Um,

so my house uh is worth about 700. It'll

be paid off by the end of the year.

Good. Um, I'm holding off on social when

I turn 70 in January and take with my

wife taking advantage of the uh spousal benefits. So, I'm get estimating that we'll have about 80,000 a year in social security and my the remaining uh is 2.1

million in um three IAS and another

account that's uh cash and some stock.

What's what are they in a invested in?

Mutual funds.

Yes. Yes. uh three different mutual funds about they're about 1.7 million and then the cash and stock is about 430

of that the about 80,000 is in four or

five different stocks and about 300,000 or so in a money market which is currently drawing around 4%. Okay. All

right. And and the other thing your question is what then you've done really well. Congratulations. Am I am I could I

be doing better than what I'm doing as far as what what I'm invested in?

Uh well, I mean, all I'm 64. All of mine

is in mutual funds and paid for real estate. And so, um uh you know, we put

it in four types of mutual funds. You've heard that. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international. I don't play single stocks just because I don't like the risk associated with them.

I'd rather have that money uh diversified in mutual funds, but it's not the end of the world. It's a small percentage of your world, and you've done you've done extremely well. And it sound like you're maybe a little heavy in cash unless you got something you're wanting to do with that. Are you getting ready to buy a car or go on a trip or something?

No. Okay. I mean, you don't need a $300,000 emergency fund.

Yeah. Uh, also when I start getting our

um social in in January, I based upon

our expenses, I'm hoping to maybe save about 2,000 a month out of that. Yeah.

So, be great. Well, and be sure you're being, you know, enjoying this and that your generosity goes up because you're a multi-millionaire. Congratulations.

Yeah, I'm already starting to plan a couple of uh trips like over to Europe and stuff. Good. Good. Yeah, I mean, you've earned it. Well done. And I assume you guys did not inherit this money. It sounds like it's 401ks like you saved it, right? Yeah. Right. Right.

You're not you're not an inherited uh you're a baby step millionaire, meaning you did it following Well, my mom my mom my mom did pass away about almost uh 5

years ago and uh my sister and I finally

sold our house plus the assets I think I ended up getting over the last 5 years.

You you cut out getting how much

did I lose you? Oh, no.

Well, okay. You're in good shape, dude.

You've done a good job and you're fine.

If you want to fine-tune it a little bit and, you know, get a little bit more dialed in with it, that's fine. It sounds like you are not a millionaire that you already were probably before your mom passed. And so, you've just added to your wealth, whatever that amount was that cut out. Yeah.

And his question, I think, was, is there anything different he needs to be doing? Because when you retire and you start living off of some of these invest off of some of these investments, is there a big shift in I don't the strategy.

There a lot of the wealth uh a lot of the financial planning community believes in a theory I don't believe in called the asset allocation methodology which is you move everything towards bonds and money markets as you get older. And I don't uh the bond market's

as volatile as the stock market and underperforms the stock market. So I I'm 64. I'm not moving a thing. And so I'm just, you know, when you're 64, if you're healthy, you are statistically likely to make it to 90 where the average death age is 76 to 78, male, female right now. But you're statistically likely to make it to 90 if you're healthy at 65. So you've still got 30 freaking years to outpace inflation. And when you dumb down your portfolio in the name of safety, uh,

inflation's going to come back and tag you in the back of the head. So, I don't I don't need the money. He doesn't need the money. He's going to be living off the social. Yeah. It's a lot. And so, that money That's pretty Is that pretty average? 80 grand. That's heavy. Well, it's he and his wife and they're both 70.

They're doing the long term. Yeah. So, that's the um that Yeah, that could be.

Um uh but uh yeah, I I don't do that. I

I I'm going to ride it all the way out because here's the thing. If you've got 2.1 million and you're living off $80,000 a year worth of social, you're not really investing this money for you.

You're not going to use it.

It's laying there, but it's going to get it's going to be an inheritance. Yeah. So, you're investing it for the next generation, which means you would not shift it and dumb it down in the name of the asset allocation model or theory.

And people act like that like that's a given and it's a law or something. It's not. It's a theory and I think it's a bad one. So, I don't I don't use it. I I

am investing all the way through and he doesn't need to use it. He's fine. He's in good shape. Uh Diane's in Atlanta. Hi Diane. How can we help?

Hey guys. So excited. Um thank you for

taking my call. Absolutely. What's up?

I'm just middle of cooking dinner for two hungry boys. Um and you may hear

them in the background and I apologize for that. Um, so I really wanted to call because

just in a nutshell, I I am a nurse. I went to school. I have my bachelor's of science and nursing. I am not working right now. I'm a stay-at-home mom. Um, my husband is an isn't physician and makes good money. What's good money? We

540. Oh, that's good money. Okay, I'm with you. All right. So, I'm a little short on time. Ask your question right quick. Okay. So, um our oldest um has special

needs. Um he has level three autism.

He's non-verbal. He's seven years old now. So, it's really hard to look far into the future, but the way his development is moving it I mean, he'll be with us. He's going to be our roommate forever. Um so, you know, my I

just don't know how much we need to be saving for him. like those two. You don't you need to save for you. You need to build wealth and you need to have in your estate plan a special needs trust

that if you and your husband both pass away that the a chunk of money an

inordinate chunk of money is left in trust the income of which will the

invested in mutual funds the income of which will support him for the rest of his life. Okay. But it's your money.

It's not his. You don't put money in his name.

No, I don't have any. Oh. Oh, in in his name. Yes. You put it in your name. You make $540,000 a year. You go build wealth and some of your wealth is earmarked upon both of your deaths to go into the special needs trust to take care of him.

Okay. So, um

Okay. So, as far as debt and what we make and all that, just you got to work the normal stuff. Just work the debt snowball. Get out of debt. Get your house paid off. go become a multi-millionaire making a half million freaking dollars a year. How much debt do you guys have?

Uh we have about We don't have any student loans. Good. We have um probably

70,000 in cars. Well, that was stupid.

Yeah, it was very stupid. Let's get it paid off. So, we got Well, we got I kind

of got my car as a push present, if you

will, in 2021. And then my husband was like, "Okay, push pay it off. Push.

Yeah. Poof it off. Come on. You've got to be kidding me. Oh my gosh. All right.

No, that's uh um No, we're gonna You need to get this mess cleaned up. Okay.

And you guys need to get on the baby steps and work just because you need to.

The special needs thing is almost a sidebar in the sense of it gives you yet one more motivation to build wealth and get your act together to make sure you have enough to leave in there. If you're broke and have no money right now, you need life insurance here marked for the special needs trust until you get some wealth built. But with the kind of money y'all make, you get rid of the stupid car payments and start stacking cash and building you some investments, get your house paid off, there'll be plenty of money to take care of your kid and just see your see your estate planner, make sure there's a special needs trust set up earmarked with uh term life insurance until you have some money.

And after you have some money, earmark some of the money into that to take care of him and he'll be fine. You if as long as assuming you guys get your act together, he'll be fine. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Hey you guys, I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsay Show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So, this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsay 101 YouTube playlist, a quick

start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsay plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So, here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work.

How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast and how to build wealth and invest for the future. and so much more. So, here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes.

send it in a group chat. Just say, "Hey, I thought this might help." Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share, one

playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So, click the link, share the Ramsay Show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.

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## 68. Fix The Money Mess That’s Stressing You Out | May 29, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Liz is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Liz, what's up?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I'm calling because about 3 years ago, I had discovered that my husband

had amassed a pretty substantial

amount of debt. Just kind of a combination of bad decisions, bad luck,

overspending. Um, and I had kind of

stupidly let him, you know, he was bringing in most of the money. I had let him take control. So, um, about 3 years

ago, I started managing our finances.

And, um, I've been able to kind of re

some and make some progress, but my my

job that the past two years had been pretty steady has slowed back down. And so every for the last three months,

we're about $2700 short a month. Um

>> I know. And um I just I don't really

know what to do because I've put our

household expenses to nothing. I've gotten rid of. The only two things I could still get rid of are um our home

security system, which is $25 a month, and then house cleaning for my mental

health.

But other than that, I've I've gotten rid of extras. Um

>> how much debt is there?

>> Probably right now about 200,000.

>> Okay. >> All consumer debt. is >> it's um he took out a helock. Um there's

some credit card debt, two car payments.

>> Oh, what do you owe on your cars >> between the two of them? 48,000.

>> Break them down to him for me.

>> Um his truck is about 18 and mine is um

like 33 or so.

>> Mhm. And And what do you make a year and what does he make a year?

He makes with his bonus about 160,000 a

year. >> My job varies. I work on an as needed

basis for a law firm. So, the past two to three years, I'm I made about 90,000,

but um I'm probably tracking this year

what it had been like the previous five years, which is 45 cuz I

>> What you gave me does not equal $250,000

worth of expenses.

Where is this money going?

What's your house payment? Um, our house payment is $1,900

and then we have a heliloc which is $470 a month. >> Yeah, but that's only $2,500. That's only $30,000 a year and you have a $250,000 household income.

>> Well, I guess I'm factoring in like all the like the debt, all the monthly payments we're making.

>> Yeah, I am too. I don't get to $2,700 upside down.

>> Your your household income is $20,000 a month.

No, it's Well, >> no, it is. I mean, not that's not your take-home pay, but your household income is $20,000 a month.

>> 160 + 90 is 250. That's $20,000.

>> I hit your account every month, Liz, what what do you actually have to work with after taxes?

>> Right now, what we're working with is about 7700 a month because I haven't

been working. >> Where's the other $13,000 a month going?

That's Are you still putting money? Are you still putting I know she's not working. >> She's not She's not at 90 anymore. She's at 60. >> She's at 45. And And your husband's 160?

>> Yeah. But the uh So,

uh >> but even at a $160,000 income.

>> Yeah. Are you putting money in a 401k still?

>> Um he does.

I don't. >> Well, you manage the money now. So, yeah, we are putting money in his 401k.

>> Okay. We Yes. >> Okay. And um what else is coming out of your checks >> other than taxes? >> Insurance. >> Mhm. >> Um he has this debt where he

this company called Beyond Finance. So that's 750 a month that he's paying towards something that he had them

some debt consolidation company >> and that comes out of his check >> that comes directly out of his well it comes it just autodrafts out of our >> No that's checking account you that's after700 went in and I'm still trying to

find like $10,000 a month that's missing

and so far the only place I found it going is a 401k >> well I mean his his take-home pay is he

gets after taxes like 3,400

every two weeks

>> and then he gets a big bonus in January which we use this year to pay off a credit card. >> Well, that's 7,000

>> and then you bring in 700 a month is what you're saying because you said 7,700 hits your account every month. I

mean, that's what it's been the last like 3 to four months because I haven't really been working.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, can you pick up the same type of position somewhere else since this since they've slowed you down?

>> I can't because um I work for a law firm

and I'm covered by their liability insurance. So, I I can't do the same kind of work for anyone else because of I mean, is there another law firm that'll hire you and quit those guys?

Uh, I mean, I've been looking. I haven't found anything yet. >> Yeah, cuz you're, you know, we're we're not going to stay at 45 when we have a market income or market value of 100.

Okay. So, a couple of things. Uh, backing up then, um, so number one, the

two of you need to sit down together and work on the budget. You can do the details, but he needs to feel the weight

of the responsibility of this with you and be carrying it emotionally. You're carrying it by yourself and it's crushing you. I can hear it in your voice.

Okay? And you're still harboring a large

amount of resentment, which is fair.

You're still pissed off about him running $200,000 in the hole without bothering to tell anybody. Okay, that's thing one, though. the you're not g your only shot at your marriage getting through this is the two of you hooking arms putting your both of you putting your shoulders in the same uh into the

harness together and pulling this wagon together. Okay, now you can do the details. You're the detail person and you definitely have to know what's going on cuz we can't count on him. Okay, so that's thing one. thing too. Then once you're doing that, then I want you to go find where all this money is going cuz stop his 401k immediately. You don't go $2,700 in the hole while funding a 401k.

That's not logical. That's borrowing money to put it in a 401k. No, I'm not doing that. So stop his 401k in the morning or tonight or whatever. Um, stop

yours. No saving money. No investing money. >> And I'd be selling the cars at this point. >> That's the next one. Sell the cars.

>> Mhm. >> These cars have got to go. They're they're crazy in this situation. But you've got to go find where all this money is going. Cuz when you add this up and look at the gross gross amount that you guys have been making and you're only getting $7,000 home, something's wrong. If you got a huge tax refund,

something's wrong. There's a big gaping holes in this. >> If his 160 is the bonus, which they use to pay off the credit cards, that's not that's not in the paychecks the other month either. But >> you got to figure out where all this is going cuz it's not it doesn't add up to 250,000. And that's where we got to get to.

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Jay's in Oklahoma City. Hi Jay. How are you? >> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. How are you all? >> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? >> Yes, I'm just calling. Um I am 27 years

old. I still currently live with my parents. Um I am 35 to $45,000 in debt.

Um that's with credit cards, vehicle loans, and personal loans. and I make

roughly 32 to 3500 a month. Um, I work

two jobs and I'm going to school and I'm

just, you know, very overwhelmed and I

just feel like I'm financially behind in life. >> Wow. So, did you say you had two car

debts?

>> Uh, yes. Um, they it's a 2021 Hyundai Elantre and a

2018 Denali. Um, the Elantra I have

about 11,000 left on it. Uh, the Denali

I have 21,000 left on it.

>> Are you married?

>> I am not. I am not. >> Why do you have two cars?

>> Uh, the 2021 Hyundai Elantre is mine.

Um, the 2018 Denali is my father's. Um

he is disabled so he is on a fixed

income and he had no vehicle. Uh he had

one but that broke down on them and we both needed reliable cars. So that I

believe looking back on it was too much of a burden to take on. >> Yeah. You need to sell it.

You can't afford the Denali. It's one of your problems. What's the nature of your father's disability, hun?

>> He has uh nerve damage and he has severe

arthritis in his hands.

>> So, um >> and what what >> some days >> are are you you said you're living with your parents? Your mom is involved, too.

>> Uh yes, she is the only one working.

What does she make?

>> She makes about She makes 20 an hour.

>> Okay. And your dad has disability income coming in, I assume.

>> Uh, yes. >> Was the um was uh is this just SSI or

was he military or >> um it's SSI, but um I guess something came up. They

uh said that my mom makes too much money, so they're threatening to >> cut it off. >> No, there's not there's not a thing where the spouse makes too much money if someone's permanently disabled.

>> Mhm. your mom can make $800,000 a year and your dad still gets his disability SSI. >> So that somebody's confused somewhere on the messaging. >> Okay. So here's the deal. Your dad's income from disability and your mom's $20 an hour adds up together to determine what kind of car they pay cash for.

>> Mhm. >> And they manage their lives. They're like grown-ups and stuff.

>> Mhm. >> And the Denali's gone.

You are way too broke to be supporting other people.

That's why you're stuck.

>> How does that hit you, Jay?

>> It it it it hits me, but I I I've seen it and I've

looked at the numbers. I've known it for a while and it's like, you know, a realization. >> Yeah. And >> I'm just the mean guy that said it all out loud.

>> Well, I it it just, you know, hurts because I want to help. Like >> I want you to be able to help. Huh? But you're not helping. You're hurting.

>> Mhm. >> Because you've quote you guys have woven together a situation that is not good for any of you.

>> And that that that can happen. You can do the wrong thing out of a good heart, right? >> And you got a great heart. You're trying to help your dad. And I appreciate you doing that. That's good. That's a good man. Okay. trying to help your mom and you're living there. So, you feel like you owe him because you do. That's okay.

I get all of that. That's fine.

>> But basically, all the debt you're feeling is are these two cars.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's basically all of it. >> If you didn't have the Denali payment, your life all of the sudden starts working again.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. And um so Yeah. And then we begin

to work extra like a crazy man and clear up the credit card debt, clear up your your little $11,000 card debt. And um

you can be debtree in gosh about a year.

>> Mhm. >> But um cuz you don't have any overhead.

You're not paying rent, right?

>> No. No, I'm not. >> Yeah. I mean, and you're buying some food maybe and stuff for the house and maybe paying a light bill or something, but you don't have much overhead. So, you know, basically we're talking about, you know, $2500 a month, which is

$30,000 a year that you could be

throwing in debt. And that means you're debtree in a year. Uh, of course we're getting rid of the Denali, too, but that's part of the equation. But yeah, once that's gone and you do these things and then mom and dad scratch together a little bit of money and they go buy a five, $6,000 car, and that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with five or $6,000 car. You can get a lot of car for five or six grand. It's not pretty, but it's reliable.

>> Mhm. >> And you're not trying to win any sex appeal jobs anyway. They aren't at the at their age. They're they don't need to pick up a date. They're fine.

>> So, I mean, it's, you know, that's it.

So, and then you start working to get out on your own and um and you can

emotionally support them and coach them and be there for them and drop by some uh drop by dinner occasionally for them and that kind of stuff. And then you start your own life and that's going to be the best thing ever happened to them and to you. >> How will that conversation go with your parents, Jay?

>> Um I think it will go very well. I think

um yes, we we I have a great

>> uh relationship with my parents and my dad is always telling me that >> he wants me to win. >> He wants me to do better than he did.

>> So, >> okay, good. Yeah, >> that's wonderful. That's a very supportive environment. >> And how much is that payment a month?

>> Which one? >> The Denali.

>> The Denali is 508.

>> Yep. >> Wow. Really? Okay. I would I would have

guessed double. Okay. But um just the same. So yeah, I I I don't think it's good for them to have that burden. And I know it's not good for you. The car that that the car was you had a a valid need

and you purchased about four times as much car as you should have or five times as much car as you should have to cover your dad's need. And and then that's when it exposed all this other stuff cuz when you put stress on that budget, all the little stupid things are really exposed. then you can kind of get away with those and forget about them >> until you put stress on it, >> you know. And I can see how all, you know, it's $21,000 Denali, you know, versus a brand new $90,000, right?

So, he's probably thinking in his head as he's doing it, oh, this is a good deal. Okay, it's not crazy. Like, I can and then but here's the problem.

that we make start when we justify them.

You put them in the whole picture of your math and a $500 car payment making

what was it? 3500 a month is what he said. Yeah. >> Yeah. $40,000 a year for a $20,000 car

>> eating Eating away. Yep. With another $11,000 car >> and another $11,000 car and credit card debt. Yeah.

So that's that's what you got to do. So hang on, Jay. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. that shows you exactly how to do the baby steps that we talk about here.

And we're also going to sign you up for every dollar for our budgeting app and it'll hold your hand as you walk through this process. But beans and rice, rice and beans.

knock that debt off and then I'm going to knock that debt off and then I'm going to knock that debt off and then by this date I'm going to be completely free and then I'm going to save my good 3 to 6 months down payment. And you know, by somewhere in that line, timeline is when you decide you're going to move out on your own. And all of these things come together. And you get out on your own and you're debtree and you got $10,000 in the bank.

You're a different you're a different guy.

>> Um, >> and what's wild is all that can happen in 18 months >> less. >> Being well, being debtree and saving up $10,000. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're right. You're right. Good point. Yeah. So that and and only 18 months and think about

where you were 18 months ago about right here. So nothing change nothing changes until something changes. So hang on.

We're going to send you a copy of the total money makeover and get you moving here my man. Get you moving. So Rachel,

I would say that in 30 years of doing this that a high percentage

and I'll call it maybe even 90%

of the people that are struggling with money issues um have they're either struggling with their spouse or they're struggling with

some other family members with money.

There's a relational component. Nine out of 10. >> There's a relational comp a negative relational component >> to about nine out of 10 people that have money problems.

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Kevin is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi Kevin, how are you >> doing? Well, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question is, I'm currently living with my girlfriend and we want to start to look to buy our first house. We're currently renting. I make good money.

She has a lot of money that she made throughout college and her dad is also

going to gift us $35,000 for a down payment. We just kind of feel like right now we're wasting money renting and I know you're totally against doing this before marriage, but it just kind of feels like the the smartest option right now. >> How long you been living together?

>> We've been living together for one year.

>> Why don't you get married?

So, if it was up to me, I would have got married last year. Um, she is going to be competing in the 2028 Olympics. So,

we want to make sure that she's ready to go for that. And she >> How does marriage negatively affect competing in the Olympics?

>> Just the whole wedding and and planning

for all that. She just wants to stay focused on >> So, the wedding affects it, but not marriage.

>> Yeah. You're willing to buy a house,

which is a big deal, but we're not willing to do a wedding competing in training. >> It's too stressful to do a wedding, but it's not too stressful to buy a house.

>> It's inconsistent, illogical.

>> The wedding's going to be a fun big party that that we could uh all enjoy it together. >> You ever bought a house?

>> No. >> It ain't it ain't an easy process.

They're they're going to do a Yeah.

Okay. Um,

so Kevin, you guys are going to do what you're going to do and um, I'm not sure

why you called us because you knew exactly what we were going to tell you.

And um, it is absolutely relationally,

legally, financially stupid to buy a

house with someone you're not married to. her father willing to give her

shacked up boyfriend $35,000

and have no protection on where that money is going to go is idiotic.

That's just dumb. Okay? No way he should

do that because here's what could happen. Okay? Both your names are on the deeds and you decide I'm leaving

because I don't like Olympians and I'm going to go do something else with my life. Now she's got the whole thing, but he can't get his money or her money out of this thing cuz they can't even find you. These are the calls we get on the show.

But that's never going to happen in your case. Yes, it is. Crazy people do crazy stuff all the time. It's how I It's why

we have a show. And uh it's compelling

radio, you know. It's compelling calls.

So please don't do this. So, what would

I tell you to do if I were your friend?

And I am your friend, even though I'm fussing at you. Um, because I don't want you to do this for your own sake. I don't want you to be one of those callers that has a horrible situation and you have to call me back and try to unweave some barrel of fish hooks you got yourself into. And so, what I would do is I would call the preacher and I'd go get married Saturday and I'd have a party after the Olympics.

And then you're legally and relationally and financially on the same page

committed to then if you want to talk about buying a house and then if her dad wants to give you all a wedding gift of $35,000 to help you on the down payment, I'm in. Let's talk about whether you're out of debt. Let's talk about whether you have your emergency fund in place. But conceptually then I would go ahead.

But if you're unwilling to commit to marriage, you should not be buying a home together. These are permanent decisions.

that are not easily undone.

>> So, yeah. Period.

Period.

And it's not it's not the data tells us

that your likelihood of having 1/4th of

the net worth that you have that that your friends that are married have when you're 35.

35 year old men that are married have four times the net worth of 35-year-old men that are shacked up.

That's the data and that's where this is going because if it if there's there's always an excuse, there's always an excuse, but we're going to go ahead and buy a house. Now, I think you're probably going to buy the house. I don't think you're going to listen to the dad thing I said, but um but I wish you would reconsider.

And I wish you'd play this back for her dad where I called him an idiot because this is just dumb. He's he's just he's

trying to do a nice thing for his daughter and he thinks you're a good guy >> and he's trying to be a good dude and he hasn't thought through the unintended consequences of this which is this crap only works when everything goes right.

>> If anything goes wrong, she's screwed in

this scenario. And you don't she don't want to be in that and you don't want to love you want to love her better than that. So, we're going to see the preacher Saturday.

Saturday.

>> Saturday.

>> This Saturday, >> Southern.

That's your uncle Dave. Come on. >> That's your uncle Dave loving you because I don't want to talk to you when you're 30 and you've had this all this struggle in your life because you've got things out of order. >> Yeah.

>> And it screws up everything. and the number of people we call that we get in here in your situation and you knew THIS BEFORE YOU CALLED ME. So you walked into the bear's den and said, "Hey bear, will you eat?" Yes, we will. So we love you so much.

We're always going to tell you the truth and and forcefully to try to get get you to do it.

to win, honey. And man, obviously the girl's a great girl. I mean, my an Olympic champion. Wow. And you get to compete in the Olympics. You got some serious stuff going on. That's neat. So,

this is a great find. You probably ought to like make sure this gets wrapped up before she slips away. >> I was going to say or she goes to Olympic deal, man.

>> Olympic man. Not that you aren't Kevin, but >> Yeah. She said, no, she said she's the one want to put it off, but she's tying it to the wedding and the stress of doing the wedding. >> Yeah. But buying a home is stressful.

Selecting a home is stressful. of your life, the quality of your relationships.

When you have commitment together, when you know it's going to happen anyways, >> and you start creating a life together, there starts to be balance, give and take, you know, all of it. It just there is like there's so much data coming out that it is there is an advantage to it to being married. And you add the finances on top and doing something like purchasing a home together. >> I mean, by the time you get to 50 years old, folks, the numbers are staggering.

You ladies, you have 14 times less net

worth when you're 50 years old if you're shacked up than a married friend of yours. 14 times

less money.

That That's the reality. Men is five times less money at 50 years old.

Married men long-term

live seven or eight years longer than unmarried men. Now, John Deloney and I were discussing that piece of research. He's convinced it's because our wives keep us from doing stupid things that kill us. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Are you going to eat that? >> We are the logical people. >> Are you going to eat that?

>> Are you going to wear that? >> David. >> David. >> David. >> Yeah. Passive aggressive questions coming from a southern bell. There you go. But yeah. >> H. Yeah. I'm convinced this is real.

>> Well, and >> ladies live longer, too. You have a 20% higher possibility of surviving a cancer diagnosis if you're married. and the um and the the stats on >> what is it is it fulfillment or happiness within the marriage before

living together before marriage even.

Yep. So the whole generation shift has been we live together first and actually the data is coming out against that happiness >> versus like playing house together like we are married and we're not because from the psychological perspective of the deep commitment that you have for protection and that's all the happiness all of that I mean yes it is all wrapped in together and again it's not it's not what the culture is doing I know it's not the norm but that's what's coming out. Here's a good idea, too. More people live together now than than are uh than >> that aren't married than live together that aren't married >> in America for the first time ever.

That happened about 10 years ago. The shift is so more people are shacking up. So, I'm pissing a whole bunch of you off right now. But the uh more people are shacking up than are married today.

but here's the thing you got to keep in mind, okay? Divorce rates at an all-time high. And if that's the case, then the splits that aren't divorced are at an all-time high. And we know those things are there. So what you got to figure out is what do most people do in a world where very few people are successful at any area of their lives and figure out what normal is and run

from normal. Normal sucks.

You don't want to be normal.

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Guys, I wish we could get to every single call. Not every single call wishes it, but we wish we could get to every single call and we can't cuz the lines are full right now and they pretty much stay that way. Uh, you can get in if you try, but if you can't, let me give you another idea. Go over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained only. The only

data in it is proven Ramsey principles.

So 3 four years worth of phone calls from this show dumped into it. The books we've written dumped into it. The um

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And what's fun is you can build out a profile so it will remember you as you come back in your situation and everything like it's it's amazing.

>> Yeah, this is a I'm real proud of our tech team building this out. This is a good use of the AI technology. So you

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Jennifer's in Daytona. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> Uh I would like to say it's better than I deserve. >> Cool.

>> Right on brand. How can we help?

>> Um okay. So, um long story short, I'm

trying to figure out if we should refinance um my private student loan. So

me and my husband kind of discovered you and your whole program and baby steps and all that about a year and a half ago >> and um so I'm a I'm a full-time teacher so I teach in high school. Um so it's 40 hours but 40 hours means 50 and and then

um so I started working in a restaurant.

Um and then I started a baking business so like I spend more time with my daughter and make an income. And then from that, my baking stuff, um, I started putting on, um, a wedding show, which is making a lot more money, which is great. Um, but because I made all this income, um, more in my husband works about 50, 60 hours, too. So, um, probably more 60.

Um, because I made this more, um, income, now my government student loans are going up about $700 a month. And I'm starting to have some weird health issues.

there's a new medication they want me to try my insurance that I pay $1,200 a month for is deni is denying the coverage of that medication. So, I might have to start paying I just changed my entire diet to see if that helps versus paying for this medication which is like 500 bucks a month they said. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm changing my entire diet so that way I could save the money.

>> Okay. So, wait a minute.

>> How much student loan debt do you have?

Um, so government student loans, I'm in the and I know you're gonna you're going to roll your eyes on this one. Um, but I'm in that like uh um >> What is the balance on what's the balance on your government student loans? >> So the the government student loans is about 80,000. >> Okay. And the balance on your private student loans? >> About 17,000.

>> Okay. Good news. All right. Good. So $100,000 gets you out of student loan debt. How much other debt do you guys have? Not counting your house. >> We paid everything off. We paid everything off. >> So you're debtree. And what is your household income with all this activity?

You guys are working like horses, man.

>> Oh, you have no idea. I'm so tired.

>> Um, and my kids kind of miss me, but I'm like, it it'll be it'll be fine. We'll make it work. Um, so it's um probably

around 130 give or take.

>> Okay. First rule is we need to find out exactly what our income is and we need to have a detailed plan of where every dollar of that income is going on the every dollar budgeting app. Okay.

>> Okay. And that will make you feel like you got a raise because part of this u

chaos that is your life right now is the

finances are very uh disorganized and

they're kind of floating around as separate numbers in your head instead of sitting in a line.

>> Yeah. It's add like um we don't have a set like paycheck. So because I mean my husband obviously depends on his hours too and and the extra shifts I can pick up at a restaurant and things like that. Understand my salary.

>> You've got all these wonderful things going on that are side hustles. But we still need a detailed game plan of exactly where every dollar comes in as it comes in. Sometimes it's going to be more, sometimes it's going to be less. But we need a detailed game plan and you and him need to be agreed.

Your fatigue level will go down because you don't mind working if you can see the traction. And if you can see the see the progression, like if you look up and you go, we just paid off $20,000 in student loan debt and our private student loans are gone. See, then I'm not as tired. >> And you've been on this for a year and a half, Jennifer. You said how much how much debt have you guys paid off so far?

>> Um almost 100,000. So like in a year in

another year, you'll be debtree.

>> That I'm I'm kind of hoping. So >> No, no, no, no, no. That's a math thing.

It's not a hope thing.

>> Yeah. If you already paid off a hundred in a year, you could pay off 100 in another year. >> 18 a year and a half. >> Okay. >> They make 130, they have $100,000. So,

>> yeah. >> So, it'll be a year and a half. But, Jennifer, to the point that you can still budget with an inconsistent income, you guys just every month kind of guess and just say, "Okay, here's what we think we're going to make." And when the 15th hits and it's a little bit less, you just lower that income, which means you already have planned out which categories you're going to lower or what's going to be cut out of the budget for the remaining part of the month.

>> Fair, fair, fair. >> All you're going to be doing is putting everything on the student loan and how much you make up or down is going to be more on the student loan or less on the student loan that month. That's all it is. That's the only variable in this stay within the margin of your food budget, your out to eat. Yep.

>> Uh I mean, all the extra stuff that just ends up kind of slipping away that can add up to a couple hundred bucks a month, which makes a dent in this debt over, you know what I mean? Over a period of time. >> Okay. Um, but it it is that kind of strict budget, but you guys have been doing it.

I mean, >> so you're paying you've done a great job. >> You're pay if you only have the student loans debt debts left and we're on an 18month schedule to pay them off.

So, whoopde-doopty it went up.

>> Okay. >> Is it on You said something, Jennifer, as you were saying, the 80,000 and you're like, you're going to hate this, but you're on the >> No. Um, >> she's on the income teacher.

>> Yeah. And they said like after 10 years, I'm only like year seven of it, but 10 years. >> I wouldn't do that. I would just get it paid off. >> Let's just get it paid off. Yeah. You because you can't count on them. They lie. >> It's it's the federal government.

>> And uh like 1.7% of the people that do the 10-year one pay repayment plan so far have actually gotten forgiveness.

>> It's nobody gets it >> because it's so screwed up and bureaucratic and messed up that I'm gonna I'm gonna be the one. Yeah, you're No, you're not. Don't do it. Just get it paid off. You You're working like crazy.

People get cuz think about where you'll be two years from today when you don't have a payment in the world except your house. Wow. >> That would be so nice.

>> I'm telling you, all this other the medical stuff you're facing will will be affected by your stress level and your

anxiety level. And uh when there's all this chaos and lack of organization and when the weight of the $100,000 is not there anymore, all of that's going to affect it does affect health. It does with everyone, by the way.

>> So, um >> and well done you guys, though. I mean, >> yeah, you're doing great. You're killing it. >> You're doing real. >> And in our millionaire study, teachers are on the list of the five careers.

>> Yeah. >> Of baby steps millionaires, Jennifer.

So, you guys are you're in great professions. You have got a great head on your shoulder. Just just dial in the budget and I promise you'll be finding some more cash when you do that.

>> Yeah. Wow. That's powerful. And she's not lacking in energy.

>> No, >> she can work. >> She's got a lot of energy, Jennifer.

>> Highly caffeinated. Yeah. Well done.

>> Keep at it, Jennifer. When you spirit, too. I like it. I like it. I like her.

She's neat. So, way to go, kiddo. Keep push on through and get this stuff out of your life. But the best way to do it, the most efficient use of money is a detailed plan.

And one of the things, folks, if you think about it this way, if you worked for a company called You Incorporated, and your job at You Incorporated was to manage money for You Incorporated, and you managed money for You Incorporated, the way you manage money for you now, would you fire you?

And if the answer is yes, then probably you ought to change something. And don't be sitting around shocked that you're broke if you're doing a bad job handling the money. And so, you know, like I've got 14 profit centers here at Ramsey. I just met with one of them a while ago for an hour and a half going over their detailed budget.

And the vice president of that area is showing me with Smart Veester. We were looking at Smart Vtor stuff and he's showing me exactly what we've got coming in, exactly what we got going out.

Hello. And get to keep that job is how he does it. Hello. So, he's really good at it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Emily is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Emily. How are you?

>> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. I'm doing good.

How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, my question for you is, um, I've

been with my boyfriend for four years now, and we're at a fork in the road where we had a conversation yesterday, and he gave me a list of things I need to work on to earn an engagement. Should

I leave?

>> What? >> I know the answer.

>> Wait, what? >> How old are you?

>> I'm 31. He's 38. We've both been married. >> Yeah. Can I ask not to be like overly vulnerable, Emily? Like what's on the list?

>> Two things. I struggle with change and

adversity.

>> You struggle with change and you

struggle with adversity.

>> with dealing with adversity.

>> And you have to fix both of those to earn his hand.

>> It's not something he wants to come home to every day for the rest of his life.

What? >> Wow.

That >> do you feel like you have that attitude while y'all are dating? Like, has there been conversations and he's like, "You see the glass half empty. I need someone with the glass half full." Like, what have the conversations been before this list was created?

>> I thought it was a c I asked a question

back, "Has it have you always felt this way?" He said, "No, it's just been this last year." And I asked him,"Well,

we've gone through a lot of challenges and adversity this last year. It's probably been the most challenging year we've had." Um, >> so there are >> What kind of adversity did you face that you weren't good at? According to him,

>> I have changed my career and moved to to

I've moved out of state three times in the last year to stay in this relationship and I'm being asked to do it again and I don't want to do it without a commitment. And >> and so the adversity is you've had all of these moves and uh you're sick of it

and that means you're according to him you're not good at adversity.

>> Yeah. My response is if things can stabilize for more than one year then I will be able to be content again. >> Why does he why does he move every year?

>> Amb we're ambitious people. Um promotions um we we decided to open a

franchise which is why we moved and it didn't work out.

So there's been some financial hardship along the way that has caused more stress. Um,

so that's that's essentially what's been the most recent adversity we've gone through and we're about to go through it again. So I'm a little nervous of I feel

like I have to watch myself if I decide to move forward.

Sharon and I moved out of a home that we had had for 15 years that we built

custommade beautiful home. And in 21

when people were paying more for properties than they should have, someone paid us more for that than they should have. And so we sold it and we were homeless and we went and bought a house and we moved. Um those were

decisions we made together

and um there was always stress associated with a move. Uh but I don't

think either one of us would call that adversity. That was we decided to change

our location together and together we

changed our location and whatever drama

there was was outside of our house. That was she and I facing that drama. Not like I'm weak and I can't handle the

change and you're strong and you can. We didn't have that discussion because we both decided and did it together. So I I'm a little bit confused coming from that point of view as to how moving is

actually adversity. >> Well, she's f she said she followed him around. She had to move three different times to stay in the relationship. So he's asking her to move with him and she's like, I don't want to move again.

>> I got that part, but I don't even think this qu I think adversity.

>> I think that would be I think that okay, it could be the wrong word, but I think it's stressful. I think her following him and then having to quote unquote put on a brave face and you can't even authentically be yourself when you are stressed. >> Adversity is you have a >> having to move. >> You have a cancer diagnosis.

>> Adversity is someone in your family has a sickness or an illness. Adversity is

you got fired from a job that was not

your decision. >> Well, their franchise fa failed.

>> That that's Yeah, a failed business is an adversity. But moving cities to take a better job and choosing to do that with your boyfriend is not adversity.

It's uh it is change. It's dramatic change. So, >> and you could hate that though. >> Yeah. And I'm good with you hating it.

I'm just curious. It's just it's a curious word choice for me >> that on his part. >> Yeah. Um or on yours to adopt it. Either

one. But the um >> Interesting.

Interesting. >> Yeah. So, I think I think this doesn't come down to uh your deficit and he's got it all together. I think it comes down to you're sick of following this guy around. >> Yep.

>> I don't get anything out of it.

>> And he knows it. And he knows it. He knows you're sick of it. And he wants you to not be sick of it. And you're sick of it.

>> Yeah. I feel like it's a too bad so sad well kind of response. And >> yeah, like >> and uh I'm just it's just a fork in the road in my life. So, I'm just I listen to you guys every day and I >> And that's heartbreaking, Emily. You've been with them for four years, right?

>> You know, I think the truth is just listening to you, you're I mean, you're not a an immature little girl. You're a

grown woman that's got strong intellect and you're articulate. And so, I think

when he said this, you've already made up your mind. You just wanted to hear us say it, too. That it's weird.

>> So, I'll say it. It's weird. >> That's a weird request.

If you had a daughter and her 18-year-old boyfriend said, "You have to do these three things to get married to me." You would tell your daughter, "Run." >> I'd be like, "Here's here's my list for you." Yeah, >> Chad. >> You need to change these things. >> Head out the door, Bubba.

>> Chad. >> Yeah. >> Let's change your commitment issues, Chad. >> Yeah, >> man. >> I've been following your butt around and all you got for in return for that's criticism. So, yeah, I think you already made your decision before you called us, >> but it's just you hadn't hadn't said it out loud, and now you did.

>> Yeah, >> I'm sorry. >> It hurts. >> I appreciate it. You know, it's just uh talking to like-minded people, getting their opinion on it. >> Yeah. Well, and here's the truth, too, Emily. You want a partner, you want a spouse in your life, if you choose to get married to him, that you can come home and be who you need to be at home.

And again, you don't I mean, and I get that like some, you know, people complain in marriage like so and so complains all the time, but there's a level of authenticity of like I need to just to like unload right now like I'm so stressed and I need you to partner with me in that and hear that in me and and empathize and ask questions, be curious, like do this life with me. Not that I have to image manage in front of

my spouse. Do you know what I mean? Like that's that's going to be an exhausting life. >> Yeah. I have to do this to earn.

>> Yes. >> This is a conditional love versus unconditional love. >> Yeah. and >> and we're getting your side of the story and I'll say more and more now we're uh we get DMs from the person on the other side of the story. You know what I mean?

And you and you hear so I >> Let me tell you, you can DM if you want to DM, but you did leave your girlfriend of four years who followed you in three different cities feeling this way. Even if even if you didn't say it that way, you left her feeling like you said it that way. So, you still screwed up.

>> Emily, I'm sorry. >> Yeah, sorry. That's awful. People do

like change, by the way.

When it's changed for the better, they love it. You ever bought a new car?

It's exciting and fun. It's change.

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Start the Every Dollar process for free by downloading the app in the App Store or Google Play. Thomas is in Phoenix.

Hi, Thomas. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing well. >> Good. How can we help?

So, I have just finished baby step two

and I'm 52 years old.

And so, I'm doing steps three and four

right now. And I just wanted some guidance on whether I should do focus more on investing or paying down my mortgage once I get three accomplished.

>> Okay. >> And I got numbers. >> All right. Cool. We teach to do baby steps one through three, which is $1,000 saved, then out of debt, everything but the house, and then three is a fully funded emergency fund with great focused

intensity. One of those things at a time until it's accomplished. So, you should not be doing anything on four until three is done. And you probably can do that in just a month or two. So, or or maybe in 10 minutes, I don't know. But call baby step three completed. Then we

change from scorched earth intensity

like running for your life intensity to intentional and we relax just a little bit. Okay?

And this is when you could upgrade a car or do some other you know go on a trip or something like that. But until then till you get past baby step three you don't need to be eating out. You don't need to be buying cars. You don't be doing nothing. Okay. So, >> okay, >> once you're there, then baby steps four, five, and six we do simultaneously,

which is kind of what you're trying to do right now on three and four. And that's 15% of your household income

going into retirement.

And if you have kids, college to deal with, that's baby step five. And then any >> never married, no kids. >> Okay. Then any other money beyond 15% of your income being saved would go on the house mortgage. And so we're running baby steps four and six simultaneously,

but it's very simple. You put 15% away and every other dollar you can find that you don't need to use to have a good life, you can throw at the debt. And what typically happens is people are paying off their homes using that system in uh between seven and 10 years.

>> So let's let's look at let's look at your numbers. What's your household income?

So, um, I'm a Fed and I make 55471

a year and I have a VA compensation

which is 2171 a year.

>> Okay. So, you have $76,000 income. Thank you for your service. And um, and and

you owe what on your home?

>> Uh, 191,000. >> And and you said you're 55 years old.

52. >> Oh, 52 years old. That's right. Okay.

All right. So, cool. So, what we would prescribe is you get your emergency fund finished and then you're putting 15% of your income away. It's about $10,000 a year, about 800 bucks a month. And um if

you're working for the Fed, you could you can you could you could put it um in

the Thrift Savings Plan, the TSP, or and

or you could use uh just a Roth IRA and good mutual funds, and that'll take care of a bunch of it. You put 8,000 in that, and that's what I would do.

Yeah, TSP has Roth now. So, >> yeah, but they also don't have as good options as the open market does for for mutual funds. The best option in the TSP by far is the C plan.

>> It's the only thing that even mimics the market and it's about like an S&P 500.

So, it's a good investment. It's not a bad investment. And so, if you if you need to do some in the TSP, what I would do is put $8,000 into a Roth getting with a Smart Investor Pro and put $2,000 into the TSP. And then beyond that, if I can find any money in the budget, I'm gonna start throwing it at the house.

>> Do you have any money right now, Thomas saved >> uh in in retirement? >> I guess I I've got Oh, for retirement.

Um I got 26 in the TSP. 26,000.

>> 26,000. Okay. >> Cuz I was just I was just running. >> The caveat is the caveat is >> there's a there's an investment um packet um that is being handled and it

was my dad's it and he made my stepmom the beneficiary. She doesn't touch it.

She doesn't need it. And she's like, "This is yours when I die."

>> I have no idea how much it is.

>> You don't know how much it is?

>> Yeah. So, I would >> I don't feel comfortable asking. >> I would plan like that doesn't exist.

>> Yeah. So, if you ran If you did the numbers, I just typed in the calculator real quick, Thomas, with your 26,000 that you have and you put 800 bucks away between now and 67, you'll have $565,000.

>> And you've got your military retirement of 21,000. >> Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. I came up with the same numbers when I used your calculator, which doesn't include >> doesn't include the Fed contribution.

So, >> so good. And and whatever is going to happen. >> Oh, wait. Fed's contributing to your TSP.

>> 5%. >> Ma, is that a match?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, you do the you put 5% in the match then for sure. And the other 10% you can put in a Roth IRA. So match in the C plan TSP Roth and then Roth and a

good growth stock mutual funds and with your Smartves investor pro that you can contact at ramseyolutions.com and yeah you're going to have half million to a million dollars you know by the time you need some money >> and um you're doing really good. I'm glad Thomas glad and you got $21,000 a year coming in as long as you're alive military retirement which is excellent.

So, um, very cool. A and, uh, and the house will get paid for using this system and, and but no, I would not put more or less in retirement. I would work that plan, that

exact plan >> and then bump it up once the house is paid off. Throw in more at investments and you can have more there at retirement. So, well done, Thomas. Which is so encouraging to do all of this in your early 50s. Like, he's jumping on the plan now, you know, >> on baby step three, starting retirement.

I mean, it can be done.

>> Yeah, >> it's great. >> Ever since we started doing this, we've had people in their 50s and 60s and 70s ask, you know, is it too late?

Well, not if you're breathing. You still got a shot, you know? So, you know, just keep sucking wind and working on it, right? It's not too late. That's the idea. So, um you you can do a lot of

stuff in a few years, but it's is is it easier if you start earlier? Yeah. for you 21 year olds.

>> 100 bucks a month and you're a millionaire in no time, man. I mean, just shut up. Hello. That's way different than saving 800 bucks a month to end up with a half million. >> That's right. >> You know, so yeah, get get that compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world according to Einstein, working in your favor, right? And it's it is if you ever run compound interest numbers, it blow your freaking mind how powerful that is.

>> All right, Ted is with us in Nashville.

Hi, Ted. How are you?

>> Howdy. I'm well. How you guys doing?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Wonderful. Um, my wife's 31. I'm 36.

We're on 45 and six. Um, we owe about

328,000 on a house that's worth about 550,000. We have about 300,000 saved

currently for retirement. >> Way to go. >> I'm about I'm about six years away from being eligible from uh collecting my pension and retiring from the military.

I'm in the blended retirement system.

>> Ah, >> and I was doing I was reading some of the literature recently and I hadn't realized that I have an option to take a reduced pension at either uh 25%

reduction or 50% reduction in exchange for the lump sum. >> Do it. >> And I got on Ask Ramsey last night.

Yeah. And ask the Ask Ramsey AI was very helpful. I ran a couple of models and it all looks like a good idea. Yep.

>> Um I mostly wanted help deciding if I'm missing something, figuring out what exactly I want to do with the lump sum.

Nope. You roll you roll the lump sum into an IRA. So there's no taxes on it that way and you leave it alone and you let the lump sum grow because the lumpsum will grow and feed you more than the pension would have fed you because the mutual funds are growing at a greater rate than the pension is.

>> Yeah. It's not even close. >> Yeah. And when you die, the pension dies with you and lump sums don't die with you. So you end up with a half million or a million dollars as a result of this over in in your inheritance versus when you die your pension just goes poof.

>> Yeah. The model that I ran I'd be giving up $480,000 of um future pension payments and if I

invested that all would grow to about 3.2 over the same time period. So >> you did it correctly. That's why we tell you to do it. That's exactly it. No, you didn't miss a thing. That that's how smart it is. It's it's not just a little bit smart. It's like waste mark.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

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>> Ethan is in Atlanta. Hi, Ethan. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hey, so I was going over my mom's finances with her. She's 55 years old,

has only $19,000 in retirement, and a

ton of consumer credit debt and a heliloc loan. And um I built her a

spreadsheet just to get everything out um in front of her so that she could see what her finances look like. And I was trying to teach her the debt snowball method. She's got about $200

that she could start throwing at consumer credit debt, but I was wondering if there's a quicker way that we could get her um I say we, it's my little brother and I, we're trying to get her positioned better financially

before she kind of hits that retirement age. >> That's very neat. And she's accepting your coaching. That's interesting.

>> Yeah. Um hesitantly, but yes.

I heard it. >> Nice, Ethan. >> I'm I'm 27. My little brother's I'm 27.

My little brother's 24. And we're just trying to >> What do you do for your mom and take care of her? I'm a mechanical engineer.

I work on elevators. >> Ah, okay. All right. So, you're a detail guy?

>> Yes, I love spreadsheets. >> Yeah, you love spreadsheets. Yeah, I can tell. And um you're a good son. You're

really helping her. That's awesome. And I appreciate that you're guiding her on that. What is her income?

>> So, she makes $20 an hour. So, after

taxes, her take-home is roughly um she

nets $2,500, but her monthly gross is

$3,400. So, about $41,000.

>> What does she do for a living?

>> She's a custodian at um >> And where's your dad? >> Alden County.

>> Um my dad's kind of out of the picture.

He's off doing his own thing. Just they're >> divorced. Really contribute. They are separated. Yes, they're divorced.

>> Are they separated or are they divorced?

>> They're divorced. >> Okay. All right. Uh because that'll matter in her future. How long have they been split up?

>> Um I think they're coming up on like 11

years being divorced.

>> Okay, good. All right.

>> So, how much how much credit card debt is there?

So, minus the HELOC loan about $16,000.

>> Okay. And is she using credit cards to

get by monthly? That 3,400 isn't covering her expenses or is it just kind of flippant spending that's caused it?

>> Um, so her it's kind of a messy

situation. She right now is living off of just her paycheck. I made sure that she like when I talked to her, she's just using her debit card to pay off all of her debts. >> Yeah. So, she's not using her credit cards at all. She's >> I was in um Palm Beach a while back

um uh where Marago is among others. And

about three doors down from Mara Lago is a property that is probably a couple

hundred million dollars in value. And the lady that lives there was Mary Kay of Mary Kay Cosmetics.

She built that house. You you've heard of her, I'm sure.

>> Yeah. Okay. She um got divorced at 55

years old

and started from nothing and decided I don't want to be broke anymore. So she started her whole life, her encore, her whole career, everything started at your mom's age.

And so >> that is really encouraging. >> I I want that for your mom.

I don't know if I want her to be in a $200 million house next to Marago, but anyway, the But I want a I want a second chapter. >> Yeah. >> Beyond the 11 year ago divorce, beyond being a custodian because she didn't

sign up for the trip she's on. And I

want her to sign up for a new trip.

So, I'm going to ask her as her 65year-old older brother what she's going to do in her encore career. What's the next chapter of your life look like, honey? What do you want to be when you grow up? Because now at 55, you get a

second chance. You've got 40 years, 30

years of income potential.

And I don't want you, there's nothing shameful about being a custodian making $20, but part of her problem is she's a

custodian making $20. and the life that she's settled in on, she'll still be doing that 25 years from now if she doesn't have some kind of a wakeup call.

You follow me?

>> Yes. >> And that's a bigger concern than a little bit of credit card debt.

>> I agree. >> So, I want to uh I'm going to put a bunch of inspirational literature around her. Um make sure she has friends that are inspiring her.

Charlie Tremendous Jones said, "Five years from today, you'll be the same person you are today, except for the books you read and the people you meet." So, I want her to meet some new people because you become who you hang around with. I want her to read some new books.

I want her to get her nose back in her Bible and her tail end back in church.

And I want her to get fired up and wired up about who she's going to be in this next chapter. And I want her making $45 an hour 48 months from today.

this is the kind of way I want to think about this for her. I want her to have a

better life than she's got lined out right now. Then obviously the side the

byproduct of that is it solves your problem that you're facing because part of what you're facing is you're taking very little income and trying to squeeze a lot out of it.

That's what your spreadsheet told you, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So part of what you got is a huge income problem. But the reason you have an income problem is you've got a perception problem and the dreams died

>> on the first go round and we need a new set of dreams.

>> So that's Yeah. >> Yeah. I want Mary Kay story for her.

>> I want that too. I was wondering what your thoughts on this were. Um if she

only has about $19,000 in retirement due

to the way the company that she's worked for has structured it. It's really messed up. Uh what if she were to take

that $19,000 out of the 401k and

obviously has to pay taxes on it and just knocks out all of her consumer debt and then she's left with only the $34,000 >> um on the helock >> having to pay off that heliloc and then that would make >> her cash flow about $1300 a month.

>> Yeah. If we don't do the other thing I was talking about, it won't matter,

>> right? >> Because she's going to struggle to make ends meet. >> Yeah. >> At 20 bucks an hour, >> that's below the poverty level.

>> She's going to struggle.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> And and it's going to get harder and harder and harder as she ages because it's, you know, it's hard to be a custodian when you're 70.

>> So, um yeah, you know, your feet hurt.

Hello. Your back hurts. pillow. >> Yeah. And I wonder, you know, even Ken's book, we could give her uh give her a copy of that cuz there's a great finding the work you're wired to do. >> Yeah. Cuz there's a great assessment in the back just to start jogging her memory of what she enjoys, right? You find what you're good at >> her natural bent that may has been squashed for years. I mean, who knows, right? But just to get some ideas. The divorce definitely did a number on

its encourage her with this cuz when I showed her the spreadsheet, >> it deflated every kind of she had cuz she wasn't snowballing. She was paying extra. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So, I I No, I would not cash out the retirement because I don't want you to have to I don't want her have to pay the 10% penalty plus her taxes on the retirement. I would stop adding anything to retirement and I would lean in and pick up extra jobs and start taking classes and do whatever we want to do for this next chapter. >> Mhm. >> Um and then clear, you know, begin clearing the debt that way.

waved a wand and she had no debt, including her heliloc and she's at $20 an hour at 55 years old and she has no hope of that changing much except for a little bit of a cost of living raise every so often and it goes from $20 to $2045 or whatever, right? That's not we're not prescribing a prosperous future with no

debt. And so there, you know, your

spreadsheet's not going to get fixed until you put more on the top of it. Um, but but yeah, keep working on it and keep encouraging her. But if I were in her shoes, I would spend 80 to 90% of my

energy dreaming again and setting up my next career and 10% of my energy trying to manage the mess that I'm sitting in.

And I'm going to work my way out of this manure and and go on to the next thing.

The best revenge is success.

So hang on, we'll send you a copy of Ken's book.

Heat. Heat.

Tess is in Detroit. Hi, Tess. How are you? >> Hi, I'm well. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, my husband and I have been mulling around the idea of buying a new car and

uh we finally decided on one we might like and separate separately we looked it up. We're like, "Hey, this is pretty good what it'll fit us." And then I said, "Well, let's go buy it because we have cash. if we could just buy it. And he said, "Oh, you know, they have 0%

financing. Why wouldn't we do that?" And I thought, you know, I listen to the show all the time, but I don't really know. I would say you don't do it because you don't want any debt at all.

>> But correct. Would do that. Why wouldn't you, you know, use their money?

>> Yeah. Well, hypothetically, that would be the co would cause you to ha have more money or build some wealth because you did that. That would be the hypothetical. In other words, I'm paying no interest and you know, my investments are paying me.

>> Um, but the the truth is what ends up happening >> is it's not going to be a problem for you. You got you got plenty of money. I can tell. >> Um, but >> yeah, it would not be a problem.

Yeah, but but you would lose money by No, you don't. You don't.

Two reasons. Number one, what what car is it? What's the car?

>> Well, I don't know if you like if we did. It was a car. It's a Hyundai Santa

Fe that we rented when we were in California. So, we wouldn't have ever looked at that car, but it was a rental and we're like, "Wow, >> this was really nice." >> It was a rental.

>> They rented one and liked it and now they want to buy it. >> Oh, I see. I see.

>> It was a rental that made us decide this. >> I understand. Understand. Yeah, that's happened to me. Okay. Um, and I also

decided on some cars I would never buy after I rented them. But, um, but the, uh, uh, the Jeep Wagon Ear and the, uh,

anyway, the, um, >> yeah, bad car. Um the uh uh

I haven't looked at Hyundai's program, but every program I have ever looked at, the only way they give you 0% is if you

pay MSRP,

>> you pay full price. You pay >> stickers. >> So 0% is not really 0%. So I bought a a

new Raptor Bronco the other day. Okay.

>> Okay. is cute car. And uh I I bought

that car. >> That's the adjective you use for your car. I have a cute car. >> It's It is It's cute. It's a cute I mean, compared to my bigger truck, it's a cute little car. But the um it's um and it's brand new. And um I called the dealer that I work with on Ford stuff when I'm buying it. Great people. And I just buy it for a few dollars over invoice.

>> But do they do that for everybody? Yeah, they do that for everybody because they get they get manufacturer rebates and kickbacks and 14 different things and they make plenty of money on the car at invoice. So $500 over invoice, $1,000 over invoice, that kind of thing is fairly typical on a car like you're talking about, like I'm talking about.

Okay? And that's a lot less than MSRP, a

lot less than is on the sticker. So 0% is not 0%. That's problem number one.

Problem number two is I have met we did detailed research with 10,000 millionaires and the number of millionaires that we interviewed that told us that they became millionaires because they use 0% financing and you kept their money working for them was precisely zero. None of them do.

Millionaires just don't do this.

Okay. >> Right. I I agree. I own this. This is my >> I don't want a stinking car payment.

>> Rebuttal for him.

>> Even if it's a 0%. I don't want a stinking car payment. And it's that simple. So yeah, so yeah, you win the argument and uh it's an interesting discussion, but that's the two reasons.

One is you're paying too much for the car and so it's not really 0% because you really ended up, you know, in a sense borrowing the money at at an interest rate. So uh and then the other thing is that will real people that have real money don't do this crap. Um and

you've got real money and that's why you stopped and said, "I don't think so, honey." Yeah. And the problem is when you don't have real money and you still go into this, if you miss a payment or something goes off, sometimes they backtrack all the interest and it's some absolute >> disaster. You can really get the the terms that you have to abide by to continue to get 0% and to get 0% in the first place are pretty horrendous.

>> So, um, they basically very few people

by the time they get through all that at the dealership end up with 0%.

And so it's a bit of a bait and switch to get you in the door and get you go, oh, we'll get you in the finance office and then we'll get you a real loan, you know, and that happens a lot because you

got to have all kinds. Well, that's it. That's don't do it. Michelle's in Sacramento. Hi, Michelle.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, good. Okay. I just had a quick question about um shared bank account.

So my husband and I have been married for we're going on eight years and we

have a shared bank account and then we have a separate one through a failed business attempt but it was a personal account. Um and he wants to keep that

open and have my paycheck go directly to that. Um because Okay. And so it's it's

kind of now I got to think about it. Um he's one um we just barely got to baby

step three and we are completely out of debt and we have um our first month's

um expenses for emergency funds in there saved up and we're moving trying to get that moved up but I just don't feel comfortable keeping that other bank account open. It feels like you know just >> okay I'm I'm confused. We are working.

We are working on the baby steps which indicates that both of you have some >> exposure to Ramsay.

>> And yet he now has decided he has a

better plan and that's that we don't do anything. We separate everything and act like we're roommates.

>> Yeah, kind of. But he's wanting like he still is giving me access to the family and the groceries and the all of that.

Well, that's nice of him. He wants to

and it's not like he's >> Why does he want to do it, Michelle? What's I don't understand his why. Keep it open and put your income in that. For what though? Like to >> Oh, so there's So he has an ex-wife and he's

nervous if something happens there. He wants to make sure that we have separate that doesn't affect the family account.

>> Okay. How can his ex-wife get into the family account? She can't.

>> I I'm not sure.

>> No, she can't. I I >> even E even in California, they don't allow that.

>> That's fair. Yeah. So, it's just it's just kind of a it's I I don't know if it's him trying to be like he trying to think that it's like a safety thing or a backup safety thing or whatnot, but >> No, >> I've he and I have sat down and had this had a conversation about it. I said, I I'm not comfortable with it.

>> Yeah. Like, I'm not doing it.

>> Yeah. We've already been through eight years. There's nothing to be insecure about. Well, you know, I know yours >> and we've already gotten out of everything. So, >> if you're worried about me, we got a different issue and it's not a separate account. If you're worried about her, >> you have a different issue and it's your lack of knowledge of how the legal system works.

>> She's gone. She's called the ex for a reason. >> She's a used to be. >> I mean, they've settled everything.

You guys have been >> She's a starter wife. >> You guys have been married for eight years. So, >> so interesting. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And there's and there's only lasted like maybe two or three. But it but and that's the thing is like we're on the same page with everything else, but it's just for some reason it's and he wants it to go to like um you know this is where we pull to go for >> Well, I mean when you when you say no, I'm not going to do that and I'm not okay with that.

>> I don't know. I don't I don't think it's anything. I don't know. To me, it makes

sense to keep it everything in the spot.

>> Okay. Is he wanting to have a separate account in general to put all of like you guys together like and he's just saying, "Hey, I want to save your income over here so when we go on trips or need to buy a car, we pull out of that account." Is that what you were saying?

>> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's >> okay. So, I would have a Okay. So, so what I would do, Michelle, is I would go get our smart bundle at Fairwinds Credit Union. This is what Winston and I did.

You have a checking account in there and then you can have up to 10 high yield savings accounts. So we have an emergency fund in one and then you can open up another one and yeah and if you guys look at the budget and say hey we're going to do the budget and we're going to save >> some amount of money >> this amount of money and maybe it comes out to your paycheck and that's what you all agree. Let's put my paycheck in this high yield savings and we're that's going to be our big bucket of savings throughout the next couple of years and we need to pull from it >> for Yes.

We have a house. >> I know, but you you you uh aren't putting you already were putting 15% of your income away before that and you were already you out of a house before that. >> Yeah, but I'm saying the way >> she's a baby step three.

>> So, you should not be saving money in addition to 14 15% of your income.

>> That's fair. >> Except for miscellaneous living.

>> But I am saying a different account that you guys put the amount of money maybe that goes to your that's your paycheck to be saving in general later on in the baby steps. That's fine to have another account to do that. But both your names are on it and the amount that's going into it happens to be some amount. But it doesn't need to be we need to hide your check over here in a failed business checking account.

>> Yuck. >> I'm trying to trying to paint another picture for you, Michelle.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Stephen is in Tulsa. Hi Stephen, how are you?

>> Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Um, so my brothers and I, we're working on a plan. We're trying to figure out the best and most efficient way to buy uh my parents out of our family business. Um, so they can retire.

>> Cool. Okay. So, what is the business net

profit?

>> Um, net a year is right around a million. Um, gross is uh last year gross

was about 8 million.

>> Okay. And what are they wanting to be paid?

Um, they haven't settled on a number.

The company was evaluated at around 14 million. Um, >> no, it's not. >> They I would >> not even close.

>> A million dollar profit company is not worth 14 million on any planet.

>> So, with 600 acres of land, >> well, the you might have a piece of real estate that's worth some money, but the company itself is generating a million dollars, right? >> And if you're if you you would be racing to pay $14 million for that. So, what is the land worth? >> Sure.

>> Yeah. The land itself is the bulk of that. Um, I'd say that's at least 9 million. 910 million.

>> Okay, that'd be about right if it's 10 million.

>> So, a four a company is netting a million is probably worth about four.

Okay. >> And the and and the land is worth nine.

So, you have two transactions is my point. >> You have a real estate transaction.

>> Okay. I see. >> You have a real estate transaction and the purchase of the actual business because you can pick the business. What kind of business is this? Farming.

>> Yeah, it's farming. It's a specialty crop. >> Okay. Farming. >> Oh, I was going to say you can pick it up and go do it somewhere else. That's not possible. Okay. Um but but yeah.

>> Do your parents own the land outright, Stephen?

>> Um no, that's that's another thing. They uh some several of the acreage they they do own outright, but but uh a majority of it has a loan on it.

>> How much debt is against the $10 million in real estate?

Um it's right around 2 million. So they

have a good amount of equity but

>> and um >> good amount of debt for for a small company. >> Yeah.

And uh yeah yeah yeah.

Okay. All right. Um I'm trying to think

how to structure this. All right. Let's go back to the the easiest one. Okay.

The easiest one is the business itself, not counting the land.

Okay. If you were to give them $4

million for the property or not for the property 10 but value of the property at 10 million and we're going to give them $4 million, then the way I would do that is I would take I would tell you and your brothers to take a bare minimum wage for the work that you

do, whatever your what is your position with the company?

>> Um, operations manager. That's >> And what do you get paid for being operations manager?

Um, we each get paid around 100,000.

>> Okay. So, if you and you can live on that.

>> Yes. So, I would tell you to continue to take a h 100,000 each as your um

salaries, which nets the company $1 million. Am I correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And I would give them the $1 million for four years.

you get a 100% of profits or 90% of profits for four years until we get to

$4 million.

If we get if we have a better year and we have a great crop, we might get there in three years. We might get there in three and a half, but you're going to get out of there. You get a percentage of profits, the lion share, the biggest portion of the profits, 90% or so, until you get to $4 million, mom and dad.

That's how you buy them out of the out of the business. Then we've got a $10 million real estate transaction to do.

That's a separate transaction. That's much more complicated, >> right?

>> Because you take payments on $10 million out of your million-doll profits and you don't have any profit anymore.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, this business is not viable.

It's not a profitable business. If someone came in and borrowed to buy the land and the business and borrowed $14 million, they would lose money,

>> right? And so, um, the business cannot

afford to pay market value for the land and make a profit, right? >> So, what are they going to do? They're going to will it to you? Are they going to take $4 million as their retirement and then give you boys the the the dirt when they die and you guys work to pay that $2 million off? That's what I would recommend. But, I don't know if your parents are that generous or can see their way to do that.

I I believe that that uh that's that's the play honestly. Um they don't have, you know, they've been running this business for a while, so they don't have any hardly any retirement. The business is their retirement. So I would see that as a pretty good uh >> if they got $4 million in a mutual fund four years from now and they live off of that and they give you guys the land.

>> Oh yeah. >> At as a part of their estate planning, they could do it pre uh pre-death

unified estate tax gifts and that kind of things. There's all kinds of ways you can do it. And we can even do an LLC and do partial interest and devalue that those interests. There's all kinds of stuff an estate planner can teach you to do to get that land transferred to y'all. And then you guys after you get your parents paid off, go get that mortgage paid off quick >> and you're sitting there with all this debt free. And this is a stinking cash cow now. You're killing it.

>> It's wonderful. >> Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Uh

thank you for your help. >> Yeah, that that's what I would do. But if they want to be paid 14 million, I don't think you can do it. I think you'll go broke.

>> He can't. But could they go out and get >> They couldn't get No one would give them >> would do that. Yeah. Is what you were saying.

>> What you'd have to do is sell the land >> and sell the business, but you can't sell the business separate from the land because it is a specialty crop on that land.

could operate in any building.

>> We happen to own the building but that's a separate thing than Ramsay. >> Sure. >> So um you could pick this up and put it in another office building somewhere.

Right. And uh then so the real estate doesn't destroy the business or vice versa. Um but where it's tied together

with a specialty crop in particular.

>> Sorry. >> I don't know. Maybe they're growing what? Avocados or something. California, right? So I don't know. I didn't ask him what the crop was, but and you know, it's it's probably some kind of something that has been done there for almost generational >> on that piece of dirt. So those trees are that those plants are >> in a sense >> are they're mature to produce the crop that they're producing and you couldn't just go do that some somewhere else probably. I'm not an agricultural expert but that's common sense I guess. Wow.

Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. So one of the things we've worked with a lot in our entree leadership materials is succession planning and uh

we've done a bunch of it here at Ramsey.

Um I mean you're looking at part of it right now. Rachel is the Ram one of the Ramsey personalities. The the ability to

carry on a brand after I'm not here for

whatever reason. And um so you've got to have a plan to carry on the brand. You got to have a plan to carry on the leadership. You got to have a plan to carry on the ownership. And um Rachel and our brother Daniel and I just did a uh panel at the Entre Leadership Summit in uh Disney two weeks ago for 3,000 business owners. And we're talking about family business.

>> Yeah. And I think what's hard in family business, depending on how it's structured, is that for a lot of people, they grow a business and that's their retirement. And so when you hand it off,

purchasing the business is usually the

name of the game in family business. And so making sure you sit down and you do it well with an attorney, right? You said the estate attorney, but lots of communication on the front end, too, that everyone understands what's happening. Really, really important.

>> All the spouses and everyone understands

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Thanks for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. If you're buying or selling a home, it's a big deal. You need to get someone in your corner that really knows their stuff. Not somebody got a license 3 weeks ago and you knew them in high school. No, that's not what we're doing. We're getting a pro that sells a 100 houses a year, something like that. Get somebody that's high octane, high protein. Ramsey Trusted only has high octane, high protein real

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Jake's in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Jake. How are you? >> Fantastic. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, about a couple years ago, I decided to purchase a home with my mother and with the agreement that she'd only be there for like two to three years and then it would essentially transfer into my name. Um, so recently

we've been having more arguments because she likes to run the household her way.

I like to do it my way. and she pulled

from her 401k to pay for the down payment for that house. So, she only has about 8,000 in retirement. So, my question is I'm trying to figure out how we can get out of this with both of us

not being sced.

>> Well, I mean, how much did she put into the house?

>> Um, I believe a down payment was about 10,000. >> Okay. And so, what do you owe on the house now?

Um 239 the last time that I checked.

>> Mhm. And what's it worth today?

>> Um the last thing I saw it was 259 to

260. >> Okay. So if you sold the house and she got her $10,000 back or whatever she put

down back and then you split any other profits, what would be wrong with that?

>> Yeah, that's fair. Um, I guess it's mostly just I'm concerned because she's 57 and only has about 8,000 in retirement and you know I want to help her the best way that I can.

>> But keeping the house doesn't affect that positively.

>> Yeah. >> She's got to get on her own and start putting money away for retirement. That's what fixes that. The house is not causing her to have retirement or be broke. >> Yeah. >> What does she make?

Um, I think I'm not sure what she makes

now. She made about 40 last year, but

um, >> where's your dad?

>> Uh, my dad passed away when I was 16. It was like 11 years ago. >> Wow. I'm sorry.

>> It's all right. >> And so she she has struggled ever since.

>> Yes and no. She for a time period had a

really well-paying job. Um, but the

amount of hours she worked, she said, kind of just burn her out. But that's where most of her retirement money came from in the first place was just from that job. So, >> how often is she working? What's her work schedule look like right now?

>> Um, so she works she has two different

jobs, but they're both like part-time.

Um, just one she's an accountant for a restaurant and the other one she's kind of like a personal assistant. The problem is is your mom is a widow with a broken heart and she needs to dream again

because she's not got any income. And she's 55 years old. She's still very young.

>> Yeah. >> And she desperately needs to say, "What am I going to do with my life the next 20 years? I need a career where I make

where I'm working towards making $100,000 a year, not working two part-time jobs and living with my son.

Part of the problem is >> she's emotionally just getting by.

>> Well, she said she doesn't want a career. >> She needs a career.

>> Yeah. >> She needs something to put her hand to to give her meaning and give her something to drive for. She's too young

to sit on her butt.

>> She can't she and she can't afford it.

>> So consequently, her career has been deteriorating rather than going up.

>> Right. And so this is what she needs. So it will be good for you guys. It'll be good for her because it will force her to face all of this for y'all to separate this out. >> This this house does need to be sold.

>> Her if you give her how old you're 27, 28, right?

>> Yes. >> If you give her all the money from the house and just go live your life, you're

okay.

>> Yeah. Liz, so give her all the money and tell her to put it in help her put it in some good investments and and help her to you pay for a class and go take a class at the community college and start to what do you want to be the mom? Do you want to be a nurse now? Do you want to what is it you want to do with your life?

You're going to have to do something. And so it's time to sign up and dream. >> But the the plan that you guys had before dad died is is over now. We need a new different plan.

We need a new plan.

And she's perfectly capable.

Her biggest problem is she's just still living with a heartbreak.

Am I wrong?

>> Yeah. Cuz they divorced when I was a baby. So it wasn't >> Okay. So she Okay. But she's never really done anything since then then.

>> Right. Well, she had like I said like that I think she's only there for like six years. Six or seven years. the one job that she had I was saying that she actually had a good income from.

>> Um but yeah, after that she hasn't really had anything that was like >> What are you doing, Jake? What's your job? >> Um I work as a utility locator. I locate power lines. >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. I think it's good for both of you to sell this house. You both

need separate financial lives instead of trying to mingle it together. And you know, and and I think for both of you to encourage each other in this new endeavor for her and you encourage her, but there's only so much you can do, Jake. You're not going to be able to change her. You can't make her go do something, but you can speak and be encouraging in your conversations with her and what you see in her and what she's what she's good at, what she loves.

I mean, all of it.

>> Yeah. Prospering for someone. This is the second call we've taken today on a 55-y old lady, right?

>> Um, prospering for someone is not merely

making more money.

You're prospering when your spiritual life is full, your relational life is

full, >> your >> taking care of your body, >> your meaning, your your physical life is all of it. Yeah. >> That that is prospering. But these things are holistic in that they are tied together. And so when you allow one

area of your life to completely deteriorate, a 100% of the time some of the other areas are also deteriorating.

>> And so you get out of shape. You you

know you've you've given up on God. So you walked away from your spiritual life. >> You isolate yourself from friends.

>> You pull away from relationships. All of these things are and what we find is is that people that are successful work the opposite side of that >> and they're very intentional about building friendships. They're very intentional about their physical health.

They're very intentional about their spiritual walk. They're very intentional about their career and their money income. And they do all tie together. If

you have only one of those working in the wheel of life, as Zig Ziggler used to call it, um these different areas of you only have goals in one area of your life or two areas of your life, the other side of the wheel is flat and you have anytime you have a flat tire, you have friction. >> Yep. >> And it's a problem. And so, >> you know, we were just having a we did a podcast with a guy yesterday.

uh you did one interview and I did another and he was talking about how he interviews very high successful people, billionaires, people that have sold companies, you know, I mean just insane. And he said and you can sit with them and you feel almost like this energy from some some are still anxious and discontent and nothing is satisfying them. And he said all these buckets of their life you can tell are absent. Some of them they're not taking care of themselves physically.

They don't have good relationships >> and other ones you get and he said and you feel a peace. There's something about this um this well-roundedness and again there's certain seasons of life you're going to be working on your marriage more or certain seasons in your life you're be working on your career more. I mean you know it goes through seasons but overall the overall scope of your life having he would call these buckets.

like there's a there's a leveling to that and a a beauty a grounding that you really do feel and it's those people that live a a peaceful life.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. That's how it works.

So that that's what Jake, that's what we want for your mom and uh that's our advice. 5 years from today, you'll be the same person you are today except for the books you read, the people you meet, the goals you set, the decisions you do towards those goals. That's Charlie Tremendous Jones and he's he was exactly right.

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might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Sarah in Illinois. My boyfriend and I have been together for three years and he recently took a job four hours away. I own my condo and still pay about $1,500 a month in the mortgage even though I'm at his place 60% of the time. He's asked me to pay for a bigger apartment since we both work from home and need more space when I'm there. While I still have my own

bills, I understand the larger I understand the larger place benefits both of us. Should I help pay for the new apartment?

No, Sarah, I would not. That's his apartment and you have yours. And if he wants a bigger one, that's great. But >> and if he wants his girlfriend to live there, maybe she should be his wife.

>> Oh, that changes the equation.

>> Yeah. No, I wouldn't be mingling bills.

I wouldn't be trying to pay a rent because here's the thing. If you guys break up and then he's stuck with that rent that he can't afford, what's he going to do? So, it's way better when

you are dating to keep your finances separate. You pay your stuff, he pays his. And if he wants a bigger apartment so that you all can work there together and all the things, >> he wants you to live in that city and you sell your condo >> and we get a place there. Oh, that would be a great idea after we're married.

>> This is what's putting the problem on it. Yeah. Put a ring on it. That's the problem because it sets you up for a you

know, you're getting a bad end of this deal all the way around.

>> It's it's killer for you. So, um,

and it, this used to be, you know, when I started this show, Rachel, the the biggest thing that came up was credit card debt. Cut up your credit cards. And now I still say that. >> And then the next thing was we laughed and called it the instead of the Dave Ramsey show in the old days, we called it the sell the car show because like the answer to every question was sell the car. Sell the car. Now the answer to every question is get married.

So true though the amount of relational mess that happens the entanglement of dating people today >> when you messes up your finances married keep it separate when you are married combine it >> just that easy >> confusing it yeah it's it's because the data is in it's in I mean the the

research is in there's stacks and stacks of paper that says you're screwed that's

what it says every bit of the data says you are messed up because again I covered this in another hour but the a lady in her 30s has a net worth if she's

not married and she's living with someone and or just not married a net worth that is about onetenth of her married friends >> and the guy is what five times has has a

fifth of his net worth >> and a guy has about 25% of the net worth he should have. Yeah. And so the the the

there's a thing we used to call in the literature the marriage advantage.

And it's still there, but it's even more pronounced now in the financial realm, but it's pronounced in other realms as well. Like for instance, physical health. Uh a man that is married lives

seven years longer than a man that's not on average. That's just a statistic.

Okay? I mean, you could you could argue why. We could have lots of fun with that. Um, and >> women help men. That's why >> that's why better people.

>> Are you going to eat that? Yeah. I mean, it's that that's that's real. And so, um, the, uh, um, >> now, don't get married to someone who's a loser, too.

So, but don't be dating those people as well. Like, like, we're not saying just because >> I don't think that's her problem. >> No, but just in general. We're just like making generalities.

So, remember, be smart about it. If you enter into a lifelong covenant, make sure it's someone worth doing that. But people you're dating long term should be worth that. So >> yeah, but here's what's interesting on this here.

For Sarah's sake, look at this. >> Okay.

>> Now follow me. Oh, now pay for it.

>> Now pay for it.

>> Now pay for following me. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I mean, Yeah. >> What a prince. >> Yeah. There we go.

It's It's all right there on the paper.

I'm just saying. David is in Phoenix.

Hey, David. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Good. Um, it's a pleasure to speak with the both of you.

I've uh I've heard that uh I've heard Dave talk before about the if Dave dies meeting and it got me really thinking about my own family. Um, and I feel like I need to have a similar conversation with my parents soon um as they get older. Um, just to give some context, I'm 23 years old. I have three siblings.

Uh my parents are 72 and 68 years old.

Uh my oldest sister is in her early 50s and I also have a brother and sister in their 20s who both have Asperger syndrome and they still live with my parents. >> Uh my parents are both retired. Um and to my understanding they have a a net worth of around $2 million. Um I'd like to have a family conversation sometime this year so everyone can get on the same page.

Um especially my my parents and my oldest sister um about the expectations for responsibilities and how the assets would be handled. um when they eventually pass away. Um because of as of right now, we're both kind of in the dark.

>> It's a great question. >> You have to lay a foundation with your family first that before you have that

other part of the conversation. And the first part of the foundation is mom and dad, I am not wanting to have this conversation because I want any of your money. >> Mhm.

>> I don't need any of your money. I am concerned about my two brother my is it a brother and a sister that have asberers. >> Yeah, it's a brother and a sister. >> I'm concerned about my brother and sister and how they're going to be cared for and what your wishes are.

And if I don't know your wishes in detail, it will be hard for me to honor your memory. And I I'm deeply concerned that I can do the right thing and that my older sister and I are in agreement on how we're going to do exactly what you want us to do when you pass away.

And they they need to hear that that's a foundational thing. You are not coming at this like I want some of the money.

Oh no, we're not going to talk about it cuz we're giving it to the two that are disabled, you know. Yeah. And so, you know, they'll get their backup that, you know, you you you'll get a resistance there, a defensiveness that we don't even need to start with. So, let's just lay that down.

Say, the only reason for this is for me to have the information to be able to honor your wishes and execute and ensure that what you've wished in the well, even if I'm not the executive, >> and to make sure that brother and sister um have the documents in place that they're going to be taken care of. You know, I want to make I want to make sure that there's Yeah. things are laid out from a legal perspective. >> Once I know what you want, then I'm going to help you get what you want.

Now, >> then do we have a proper will, >> which in this case would include probably special needs trusts to take care of the two special needs people, right? >> Okay. >> And um and and then how's that money going to be invested and what do you want done with that property and what do you want done with that investment account and how do you want it handled and who do you want us to contact? And um >> who's the executive?

You know, is it sister that's going to be, you know, doing all the details? my older sister the executive, that's fine. If you don't want me to know do anything with it, I won't do anything with it. All of that's okay.

for your all's peace of mind that that

we're all on the same page.

>> Okay? >> And and then what we're going to do once once we're all on the same page, the Ramsay thing is we just sit down and part of the meeting is we go through the real estate that we own and we look at it and we go, "Okay, here's what the will says about this real estate.

Um here's the life insurance that's in place and here's the beneficiaries on it and where it will go. In my case, there's not any. Um and um you know,

what do you want to have happen with the home place? What do you want to have happen with this or that? And it can go all the way down to my wife's 97 year old dad said told the kids about eight eight or 10 years ago his kids uh to

walk through the house and put a sticker on the back of something if they wanted it. >> And so the house has got all these sticky notes in the backs of the pictures and the backs of the figurines and stuff. >> Yeah. Now I will say it's funny. He asks the meeting is not called if Dave dies, it's when Dave dies. Dave will not

forever. >> If Dave dies this year. As long as it's if Dave dies this year. Okay, that's it. >> It's the Monty Python meeting. I'm feeling much better. >> We want him to live forever. It's just a flesh wound. It's not going to happen, but we love him.

Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

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Our

scripture of the day, John 14:27. Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Babe Ruth said, "Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game." Briana is with us in Sou Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Briana. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm wondering if I should get a work from home job. I am a mom of three under

two and we're going under every time we get paid. >> Oh my goodness. You have twins?

>> Uh, no. I just had a baby. He's 3 months or just about 3 months old. >> Oh, wow. Okay. So, how much is the new job work from home's going to pay?

>> Um, I don't know. I'd have to see and find one, I guess. Um, but I did look into it and I'd have to make at least three,000 a month for it to be worth it cuz right now we are on um like SNAP and Wick and

Medicaid. So, I'd have to be able to make enough to cover all of that. What does your husband make?

>> Um, he makes roughly 43 after taxes.

>> Okay. >> And we're about 34,000 in debt.

>> What does he do?

>> He is a brick layer. He works for the

union. >> So with $43,000 income, you qualify for

every part of welfare. I didn't I didn't know that. >> Uh, yes. Through the through the winter

is when we qualify. We're just getting out of the winter cuz like we went through about two or three months where the max amount of money that we made was maybe 800 for that whole month. So we

qualified for all of that. Rick in Medicaid you qualif in the summer when he's working you don't qualify.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay, that makes more sense. Now I'm now I'm tracking with you.

>> All right. >> Yeah. >> Um so he makes a lot more in the summer.

Like a bazillion times more. So, um, how long has he been doing that?

>> Um, he's been with the same company for about five years now. Six years, maybe.

>> All right. So, I think >> he just started working. >> Yeah. My first piece of advice for you all would be to pan back from this and say, um, we're a young couple with three children

and we're going to have to make some overall decisions about his career

that allow us to feed our children without the government doing it.

>> So, what is he going to do in the winter when he's not laying brick? In other words, >> um, we've gotten by by God's grace at this point. >> No, you got by by snap

>> because he wasn't working in the winter,

>> so he needs to be working in the winter.

>> That's my point. >> Is he not doing anything in the winter? >> Yep.

>> Uh, he'll do side jobs.

>> Yeah. >> But he didn't have anything this winter.

>> Yeah. He needs to be making a thousand bucks a month somewhere. I mean, thousand bucks a week. You know what I mean? in the winter waiting tables. I mean, doing >> and and what are we going to be doing when we're 44?

>> Because this plan's not real good.

>> Yep. >> It's leaving your family very vulnerable. Are you stressed? >> And I don't know how you're going to work at home with three kids under two and get any work done.

>> Yeah. >> Are you Did you have a career before?

>> Uh yes. I actually that's why we have we have about 12,000 in student loans cuz I

uh was a medical assistant.

>> Okay. But you're saying with daycare for three to three under two that's the most priciest age to put them in daycare is what you're saying. It just it's not making sense from a >> Yeah. You can't go into the workplace.

I understand that. I I don't have a problem with that >> assessment.

This is not a plan. It's it's it's put you guys it's painted you into a corner and your life is not fun. And so I want I want good things for you guys and it's going to involve him um making some changes in views on his income. uh

what's he going to be doing in the next 5 years that doubles his income >> or in the next 10 years that doubles his income and that and that sustains his family through the winter? He needs to be asking himself that. You two as a couple need to be asking yourselves that. Um and then that starts the whole

conversation. So part of your debt is a student loan debt. What's the rest of it?

um 17 is in a truck loan and then we

have 4,000 in a personal that got us through one winter and then um roughly

about 15 um in medical. Some of that's

in collections and then we owe family about a thousand. >> Okay. All right. I'm going to I'm going to be mean. Are you ready?

>> I am. I'm going to say you're going to sell the truck.

No, I'm going to say it worse than that.

Okay. You do not get to own a $17,000

truck when you're taking welfare to pay for your kids food.

>> I agree. >> That is not okay. >> My husband made that decision um about 3

years ago. This truck has eaten us alive since we got it through everything.

>> It's got to go. >> Yeah. The only So, I'm going to I guess

and then if this is going to be the thing, I've been telling him that we have to get rid of it as well. But if we only get about 10 grand for it, we're still going to have to pay that seven outright when we sell the truck. And we don't have any savings at all whatsoever. >> You'll be borrowing it from the place that has the truck loan to cover the difference.

And I bet you can get more than that for it if you sell it private sale.

Carvana will give him for it. And that's nothing compared to what he can actually get for it. A good working truck will bring a lot of money in Sou Falls, South Dakota. Okay? And so he can get a lot

more than 10 for it. And you're going to have you probably are in the hole some.

I'm not arguing that point. You're going have to borrow a little money to cover that hole. But I'd rather you be $45,000 in debt than 17.

>> And again, I'm addressing head on the decisionmaking paradigm that you guys are using to run your life. And what

you're doing is you're doing, I'm going to do this over here, and I'm going to do this over here. I'm going do this over here. But when you tie those three things together, they're not logical anymore. And it and it's it's creating

um pain for you guys. And I don't want that for you. I want you to win. >> Well, and you want to make sure your money habits and decisions, kind of what you're saying, regardless of what happens are are steady. Meaning that before they had kids, she was working as a medical assistant. He's a brick layer.

Can kind of do, you know, seasonally, I'm sure they were fine, right? Like he his seasonal work and her they could just make it. And then you pull her out of the workforce with three babies.

>> Yep. >> And suddenly your paradigm has to shift to your point. You can't like >> it's a lot of >> you can't have that. Yeah. You cannot continue to do what you've been doing.

And I'm talking to him. Um >> Yeah. What you did three years ago, meaning your truck, your choices on restaurants. I mean, like all of it all changes because your life has changed >> and your choices on side jobs in the winter.

Yep. >> And and or an overall career change over the next five years that causes your family to be able to stabilize and sustain. >> Yeah. That gets you to 70.

I mean, the manual side of the trades >> is wonderful. >> Is amazing. And so there's a lot of opportunity for us. >> They're a lot better than 40 grand a year.

>> Yep. >> Yeah.

stuck in what I'm doing is okay when what I'm doing is not okay.

>> That's the thing. And, uh, and I'm not hollering at you. I'm not hollering at him for that matter. But but um you know when he was by himself and wasn't married and he was laying brick and he had a little downtime in the winter, he'd work it out. >> But now he's got responsibilities.

And um >> and Brian, I don't even know how you're coherent sentence of with a three-month-old and two todd you have a lot on your plate. And honestly, if you were just a full-time mom taking care of the household, making sure those babies are alive at the end of the day, right? I mean, like, that's a full-time job. So, I understand the money needs to happen and and I hope that yeah, there's a good situation that you can bring in some, but I mean, honestly, call me old school, but I'm leaning on on him, dude.

>> Get to work. Get to work. I got three babies at home that I'm taking care of.

>> It's no joke. >> And and it's and it's not just it's not that he's not working hard now, >> but it's get to work in a way that it brings in the money to take care of your family and get your truck sold, dude.

>> Yeah. Yeah, but when you bring $800 home a month, >> I know. Get your truck sold. Then you get to work. Yeah, you got to get you got to get some stuff going here and get you a $5,000 truck. That's the thing.

>> Call us back, Briana, if you guys need anything. We are >> Hang on. We'll we'll send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover and get you on every dollar and try to help you if we can. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 69. Fix Your Own Financial House Before Funding Someone Else’s | March 2, 2026


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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsay Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show

alongside the fabulous, incomparable Jade Warshaw. I'm just kid. That's a

That's a That's a lyric, you know. I'm sorry. >> From [music] the Barbie movie. That's all. I'm just trying to do a little shout out. See if the audience is awake and paying attention. Fabulous studio audience today. Handsome looking group of people that we'll meet here in a little bit out there watching in the lobby. So, let's get right to it.

88255225.

That's the number to jump in today.

Sarah joins us in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Sarah, how can we help?

>> Hey guys. Uh, so my husband and I keep on loaning his mom money. She always pays it back to be fair, but then she asks again, and I'm starting to really resent it, and we disagree on whether to keep helping >> and I just don't know how to go forward with my husband from here. >> Oh boy. Obviously, you don't want to. he feels he has to. Is that a fair classification? Okay. And tell me about the last conversation >> uh that you guys had about this. How did it go?

>> Uh well, it started because uh she asked for $7,000 to fix her car.

>> Whoa. I thought this was in [laughter] the $70 range to be completely honest.

>> No, no, no. >> This is NOT CHUMP CHANGE. WOW. NO, it's

it's always thousands of dollars. And I

I basically told him like, listen, we're her piggy bank, and I'm tired of being her piggy bank. And she >> What did he say?

>> Go ahead. >> Uh well, he says that she never asks for

frivolous things. It's always quote unquote an emergency or important.

>> Okay. Tell me what the $7,000 ask was for. just uh I think it was the transmission on her car.

>> And how often does this occur? Is this once a year? Is it every couple months?

And is it always like to the tune of like thousands of dollars? Or is it sometimes just like spot me a two a couple hundies? >> No, [laughter] it's it's always it's always thousands of dollars. It's at least once a year and it's sometimes

twice a year. >> And she always pays it back.

>> She does. Yeah. And how long does that take? >> Um, I don't know cuz I This is all just

my husband's word, but I think six months. >> Yeah, this is tough. The reason I asked because I really wanted Jade to lean in on this one because you are the wife and

this is tough for me. I don't have any clear response because the reason I asked about the relationship conversation was what had happened the last time we talked about it and it and you didn't give me a lot of detail but from what I inferring he basically was like well it's not frivolous she needed a new transmission and so in his mind he's justifying mom's crazy ass he's on

mama's side and that's a problem >> and so she's in so I'm gonna actually defer to you here >> because this not to say that a man can't inform this question, >> but I do think it's unique. I want you to lead off here because to be honest with you, I'm not sure what she does here. >> Um, I think that this is a classic. This

is kind of a classic uh leave and cleave type deal where the the son has to go, I

love my mom. My mom made me, she raised me. I have nothing but love for her. But if I'm forced to choose >> Yeah. And my wife is not wrong. It's

just a you Well, I think I think the husband's wrong, but I'm just saying in his mind, in his mind, if he's is if he's seeing it as a as a question of preference, my mom prefers this. My wife prefers this, you got to go with the wife every time.

>> Yeah. And that's the question I have quick. I don't want to totally interrupt your momentum, but I do want Sarah. I mean, is he completely clear? If he were sitting right here with Jaden, would he be completely clear that you've had it with this or or does he think you're just mildly frustrated? What does he think? >> I think I [clears throat] he's he knows that I've kind of had it with this.

>> Okay. >> Now, I get pretty blunt with him.

>> You said something earlier that begs a couple of questions from me. Uh when I asked, "Does she pay the money back?" By the way, that's neither here nor there to the question of whether you should lend it. I was trying to understand his

point of view a little bit more. so I can >> argue it. Um, but what you responded was was interesting. You said uh that basically as far as you know based on your husband's word which made me think like do you not have access into seeing

uh each other's finances are you sharing finances basically?

>> I mean technically we do but we do not

have a joint bank account. >> Okay. So that that right there and I'm going to tell you right now, uh, Sarah, I've been we've been getting more and more of these calls where what happens is you guys have not fully aligned on

finances, the philosophy of it, nor how

we uh share our money, right? There's still this kind of side business going on where we have we have one account that we put checks in, but we also have our side accounts. What happens when you set up life like that is you um you you

actively pull yourself out of being uh the decision maker with your spouse on every major financial issue because you've already said we're not fully together. >> And so that I think is why your husband is operating over here saying, "Ah, it's [clears throat] not that big of a deal. She always pays me back." I'm not saying it's right. I'm just >> understanding it.

>> It's actually great insight there. It's a really good point, Sarah. I hope you're hearing what she's saying because here here's where this goes. You guys are going to have to have a mediator and I think it's a marriage therapist because to Jay's point, things have been so separate.

>> It's a total reason to start this point that and again, he just he needs a completely new perspective and and you don't want to put yourself in a place where you're threatening him, >> right? And then making him make a false choice. Now, if he was sitting here with me, I'd look at him straight in the eye and go, "Hey, bro, listen to me. You got to twist >> like you got to you got to choose your wife here.

You got to grow up. Take the diaper off, the emotional diaper. Uh this is embarrassing. I mean, I would just go straight at it.

He's not here today. So, we want to equip you, but I think Jade's insight is absolutely phenomenally on target. So because of that, I think you're going to have to have a marriage therapist to bring you together, hopefully a skilled one who is the middle ground and can go, "We do have to reset." Cuz I think he's operating like, "What's the big deal?" >> Yeah. Because you're the one who, and I'm not saying this in a wrong way.

But if you look at what the agreement was, right? If you if you and I say, "Here's the stakes. We'll do this together." and then you're the one who changes. He has the right to be confused or wonder, well, what's the big deal?

>> And again, I can't stress this enough. I believe you're right in wanting to not continue to lend her money. But in that, that's not the bigger problem. The bigger problem is we actually need to have full transparency on our money. We need to be fully combined on our money.

And I agree with Ken. Counseling is the way to to start that new process.

>> And here's the ask. Here's what you got to tell him. You have to say, "We have to do this. We have to go to counseling.

It's not a threat. We have to go. This is causing me to resent you and your mom. I don't like it and I don't have the tools to convince you. So, will you please do this for me? I think that's your posture. And um and and and you

know, the context has to be reset because you guys are not on the same page. Therefore, he's like, "What's the issue?" So, going to be tough. Uh it's not going to be easy, >> right? But Jade, in this situation, there is no easy. This has to be

confrontation. And to your point, a fullblown operational reset. Gota reboot. >> Absolutely. And and then on the money front, what I see honestly, just on the money front, it's only a matter of time because she's not been a good the mother-in-law has not been a good manager of finances. It's only a matter of time before she stops paying you guys back is what I see because she's just not a responsible person with her money.

Oh, and be prepared, and I don't want to judge her, but be prepared for a pretty nice blowback from mom, >> because I believe she's either knowingly

or unknowingly manipulating your husband, her son. >> Wow. >> And that's going to be sticky and stinky. >> Words of Scar. Be prepared.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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We're going to go to Reagan next [music] in Houston, Texas. Reagan, how can we help?

>> Hi. [music] So, my husband and I um we're both 25. We have two kids and we

are kind of living paycheck to paycheck when I feel like we shouldn't be. Um, we're trying to figure out what's the best way to kind of pay down our debt as well as still put money into the savings account to help, you know, [clears throat] have an extra layer of cushion.

>> Okay. Okay. Tell me a little bit more

about how much debt you have and what type of debt it is.

>> Um, so without our mortgage payment, um,

it's about $60,000.

Uh mainly credit cards, vehicle loans,

and some medical bills.

>> Okay. How much of it is the car?

>> Uh our vehicle. So

our his truck payment is about 40,000 and mine's about 4,600.

>> Okay. So 40,000 is the total amount that you owe on his car. What's the total amount that you owe on your car?

>> About 4,600.

>> Oh, 4,600 total. Okay, I hear you. All right. Um I when I look at this and you tell me, "Hey, we're living paycheck to paycheck." The number one glaring obvious reason I see are are the cars.

Um what's his monthly payment and what's your monthly payment?

>> So the car payment is 378 a month and

the truck payment is about 600 a month.

>> There you go. Yeah. What difference would it make if you cleared that out and had an extra almost thousand bucks a month in your life?

>> Um [clears throat] yeah, it's a lot. And it's also I think also daycare because we spend a little over a thousand a month on daycare. >> Yeah, daycare will get you. But that's not something that we can really change right now. The thing that we can really change and affect uh is this car payment. Tell me about you guys' income.

What do you bring in every month and what does he bring in?

>> Um so together roughly 7,600. Um I just

got a promotion a couple months ago so our income went up and we had we had to

buy a vehicle. It didn't necessarily have to be the truck, but um you know,

right now we're trying to figure out what's the best way to pay this down because I will probably need a car here in a couple years, maybe a year or two, um because my car keeps breaking down.

>> Yeah. So, let's solve for that then. I mean, what I would do, I mean, yes, you're right. You have to have vehicles um to to to operate life. So, I agree with that. However, when you're, you know, $60,000 in debt, clearing out

40,000 of it, which is a vehicle, makes a humongous difference. So, if he sold that vehicle today, what could he get for it?

>> Uh, possibly 35, 40.

We just we just bought it in October.

>> Even Even better. Even better. You won't be as far upside down on it. >> Do you have any money saved?

Uh we have about $6,000 in our savings and about $4,300 coming within the next

month or so from our our college scholarships we get.

>> So we're going to have access to

$10,300 that is above and beyond your income and that's coming quickly. We've already got six. Well, are you familiar with our baby steps and how they work?

>> Yes. So I purchased the book last year.

So, we saved up the money and we've been trying to pay down the lowest amount of debt we've had or whichever.

>> But if you're familiar with the baby steps, baby step one is how much in the bank?

>> A,000. >> All right. You got 6,000. >> Is it six? Yeah.

>> So, Jade, what does she do with the five? We got good news for you [laughter] on this truck. >> Let's roll through this. Yeah. Let's pretend Yeah. that you only get 35 for it. Okay. You've got the five to put with it. So that that's a clean break right there. And then to your point, if you've saved up 600, you know, if you've

cleared 600 extra dollars a month, theoretically, how quickly could you save for a cash car, >> right? If you said for for a split second, I'm going to pause the debt snowball and I'm going to stack up uh some money as quickly as possible. How quickly could you stack up five or $6,000? I think making 7,600 a month, I

think you could do it pretty quickly. Yeah. >> So that's really the play here. Um, anytime you have debt, I'm going to find out ways to clear it very, very quickly because the faster we do this, the more motivated you're going to be to continue. So, in a world where you sell

that car now, suddenly instead of 40,000, instead of 60,000 of debt, we've got 20,000 and you've got more money per

month to knock that out. I think this is kind of like a a win-win. And then you have this $4,300 coming that goes towards your car fund.

Does that make sense? >> Okay.

>> How on a on a scale of 1 to 10, be honest with me. How excited are you about that solution?

>> I'm kind of in the middle. I'm a little nervous. Um cuz right now my biggest

Well, not the biggest concern obviously, but uh my car is one cuz I don't want to

have to buy a two new vehicles and go into two car payments again.

>> That's Well, that's what I'm solving for. So, let me let's let's roll through that. >> Hold on a second. Where before you roll through this, where did you hear that we want you to have two car payments when Jay just spent a couple minutes telling you how to get rid of the only one you have?

>> No, [clears throat] I I heard that. I was just it it goes through my mind cuz we we have really bad luck with vehicles and so you know >> Okay, I'm glad you're saying this.

>> Here's what I want to talk about. So, we gave you the advice. It's normal to very very quickly get very emotional about it, right? Cuz uh we've had bad luck with advice.

Oh, or I'm sorry, we've had bad luck with cars. Oh, you know, I have to think about how to tell my husband this. Oh my gosh, you know what about security? Right?

Your brain starts going through all those emotional plays. So, I want you right now to tell me the top three things that pop and Ken and I are going to dismantle that in a completely logical unemotional way.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, first thing you said is we've had bad luck with cars in the past. Ken, what you got? >> So have I. Uh that's just life, right?

So this idea that you're stuck in this bad luck thing. No, you're not. You're just a part of the human race. It's a little bit of the human lottery, right?

I mean, you know, you go look at a mechanic, any mechanic place in your local area, and you're going to see a steady stream of cars. Probably not a bad idea to go, "Oh, I don't have bad luck. I'm driving an imperfect machine, and there's thousands of other people in my zip code." So, I think it's mindset is how I would dismantle that and go, "All right, now how do I uh prepare for

>> oddsuck have better odds?" >> How do I make the odds better? Well, I'm going to put enough money away that I can take care of a basic mechanical issue and keep moving forward. Is it a little bit of a step back every time?

Absolutely. So, >> or or you can do a lot of great research on the front end to make sure you're making better choices than you've made in the past. >> That's right. Take longer to buy the next car, right? get it checked out by a mechanic. Buy a car that has better odds, right? We can name the brands and you can look them up that can do much better. I mean, I'm I'm a guy right now that's got three teens, okay? I got more

cars than I had ever thought that I would have owned. All of them used and I'm driving a used car. Um, and I do the

research and I get these things checked out by a mechanic that I trust because I

got two teens right now driving every day. Yeah. And I'll tell you what I do.

I have a Christian Brothers in my neighborhood. It's a local mechanic.

I'll bring when we're looking at used vehicle vehicles, you can bring them over there and they'll give it a once over for you and check it out so you can feel good about the purchase. So, okay, that was the first thing. Uh, next idea that could be a potential issue could be what? Um, just the idea of downgrading vehicle because other people see it.

>> You're driving a car that stinks.

>> Yeah. Everybody saw you get a new vehicle and now suddenly you >> So I got the saw for that. You know what you drive around the corner >> if you're ashamed of the car and I've been there. Okay. When I first got married I had a Ford Taurus. Okay. And it had no AC and um and one day on the

way to work the felt on the top of the ceiling of the car just fell down on top of my head at a stoplight. I was very embarrassed. >> The dignity loss of dignity. >> It was very embarrassing. I got [laughter] home that night and I couldn't afford to fix it. So, you know what I did? I got a staple gun out.

>> Come on. >> Three shots. Took care of that business.

And then, but I was embarrassed. So, guess what? I always had a good excuse or a creative way of getting out of driving anybody to lunch. [laughter] That was pretty creative. Number two, if I had to go to a meeting, I pulled around the corner and walked and just acted like there was no place to park.

>> Perfect. >> There are some creative psychological things you can do to not be ashamed of the hooptie. >> Yes. >> For a season.

So, I think that's kind of I I'm addressing that cuz I think that's part of it is our pride. >> The point the point is what we're suggesting you are going to feel an emotional backlash immediately. But I want to challenge you to work yourself through it because chances are it's just that first feeling of cuz you don't know what's it's fear. It's fear is what it is.

You've never done something like this before. You've never done something this drastic. You don't know how it's going to play out. But we do.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem.

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[music]

Okay, folks. One of the best things to do for your finances is to have a really, really good tax pro in your corner. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation, maybe your small business, and if you've had some big life changes in the last year. So, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

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And uh these agents that you will see there have been vetted by our team.

They're going to teach you the way that we would teach you. And this is a good move if you've never done this before. So do that and you'll be better for it.

Eric is up next in Phoenix, Arizona.

Eric, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, you bet.

>> Pretty good. So, um I'm in a bit bit of a pickle. My mom co-signed a lease with my brother about four years ago and he's

in and out of jobs. he doesn't really like working in corporate even though he had the opportunity to do so and now he can't afford it and he wanted to get it repoed um which he said no so we she's

been asking for help to pay bills and so

um now the car is just kind of sitting it's being used but we had asked her to sell it by we I mean my my other siblings and mine but she doesn't want to sell it um why >> she's kind of underwater so even if she does sell it she won't get much for

Okay. How much do you guys Well, let me say how much does the mom and the brother owe on it?

>> About 20 grand left on it.

>> Okay. What's it worth if they sold it?

>> Bad shape. He kind of ruined it.

>> Sorry. >> You said somebody ruined it. She ruined it or he ruined it.

>> He ruined it when he was using it.

>> Just wrecking it. >> He just didn't take care of it. Maintenance. Yeah, it's it's been wrecked a couple times as well. >> Uh why are you calling? Area is terrible. >> Because mom has asked him to help out.

and brother because brother >> she had an accident last year as well >> been taking care of while she's been uh going through rehab and physio and stuff like that. >> Understood. >> What could she sell the car for today?

>> Maybe five grand honestly.

>> Oh gosh. >> If she's lucky. >> Okay. Um well this is first of all this your brother is in a season of life where he

is impersonating a deadbeat.

>> [laughter] >> And so dead beats only wake up when

they're forced to wake up. But the problem is mom's name is on this and she refuses to help herself. Correct.

>> Kind of. >> What would >> the main reason she doesn't want to necessarily take it back to the bank or maybe just get it repoed which >> repo is not an opo is not an option and we can talk to you about that why that is but continue continue on.

>> Yeah. So eventually she says she wants to get a house soon enough which I personally think she can't afford.

>> So the biggest thing for me really is just um

continuing to help feels like enabling.

>> I don't know how to approach her in a sense like okay in as much as we've been helping this entire time >> you there's a couple things she could do. >> What else have you been do what else have you been doing to help? cuz it sounds like you've already been down that road.

>> It's mostly just um bills and you know rent and stuff like that. I still live at home but I just got married so I'm moving out. >> Is that because of the accident or that's just always been ongoing?

>> It's been [clears throat] ongoing but more so after the accident.

>> And who's we? I thought I heard you say we've been helping.

>> Uh my siblings and I. Uh my I have a younger brother and then an older sister. Are your siblings that have been helping with the bills, are they all in the same opinion of you that you just said, which is I feel like I'm helping and it's enabling. Do they have the same feeling?

>> Somewhat. My older sister, yes. My younger brother, um, not too sure.

>> Okay. >> He doesn't say much. >> I listen, I you you asked a question and I'm going to answer the question that I heard and that is how do I approach her on this? How do I handle this? And this is you going, "Mom, I can't do this anymore.

>> Here's what you should do." Mhm.

>> If I were you, this is what I would do.

And you lay it out and say, I'd sell the car. Because every day that she doesn't sell the car, there's like another calamity that's probably going to happen to this. And I feel like this entire car represents a lot of the calamity that your brother creates. And no one is willing to do anything about it. And so I, if I'm you, I go to mom and I go, "Mom, sell the car today because we got to at least get five grand for it." And that at least lessens the debt by 5,000.

And then we have a $15,000 problem. You got all these other financial problems that are more important than this stupid car. So, mom, here's how I'm going to help going forward. I can't help you financially anymore. I've got to move on. I suspect that you don't have the finances and the margin to be able to keep helping her anyway without hurting you. True or false?

>> True. >> True. So, that's the conversation. Mom,

I can't. >> Even if I wanted to, I can't.

>> So, here's how I can help. I'll be willing to list the car, sell the car.

I'll be willing to have a conversation with younger brother and grab him by the nap of the neck and just absolutely as only a brother can lay into his butt >> and with both hands >> with both hands >> ambidextrous. [laughter] >> Very well done, Jade. And and and you

like use both hands. Clap him on both ears. [laughter] Okay, now here's the deal. And that's a lay it out and move on and say you got

to help mom.

>> Yeah. And I think all the siblings should unite on an intervention. Outside of that, Jade, that's what I'm thinking of. What What else did I leave off the table?

What would you do here? >> Uh there's a part that that can help relationally, I think, early on, if it's possible. You said mom co-signed for brother, which makes me think mom has better credit. I wonder if she can refinance this and get him off of it so that at least you're separating that relational tie and then from there on she can make whatever um choices she's going to make with the car separate from the brother.

waters just a hair uh as she decides what she's going to do next. Um but other than that, Ken, I think Ken is exactly spot on. I I I have nothing to add. >> Yeah, >> this is tough. So selling the car would be private sale is get the most money.

Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And what she can do and you can advise her of this if her credit's all right.

Uh in the process of getting him off the loan when you're in there, you can say, "Here's what we want to do. We need a loan for the difference cuz ultimately we're going to sell this thing. So we need to get him off of the loan in the process and then we're transferring it to a personal loan." And when she does that, if she wants to add a little something to it to get something in cash, that's fine. But I think because

of the nature of how much she owes on it, she's probably, you know, she would

end up basically back in $20,000 of debt. So, I think the bigger part here is to get the brother off of it. And then maybe maybe and I don't know what your lifestyle is, but maybe that's a way you could help her out, which is, hey, while you're saving up for your next vehicle, I can help if you need a ride, you know, in between the Ubers that in the bus rides that you'll be taking, I can help with that. Maybe that's something you can offer.

>> Yeah. And and then you we need to caution mom. You're nowhere near buying a house. Not even close.

Are you renting?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. No, you she is not thinking about buying anything. Uh we got to get her healthy. Do you feel like her long-term physical prognosis is good where she can get back to work?

>> It's been better. She's going to extend a little bit because she's still in some pain. Um so maybe by July maybe she'll

be >> What is she living off of? Is there some type of a disability or insurance that she's getting? What's what's going on there?

Yeah, she had gotten uh disability for a little bit and then she was pulling it pulling some out of her insurance.

I think uh life insurance >> uh from >> I think she barred against that.

>> Oh my gosh. Mom.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> Yeah, this is tough. Um

tell me and and you can be vague, but the nature of her injuries, how serious is this? And and how old is she? because I want to know really honestly what she's going to be able to get back to doing work-wise.

>> It was pretty bad. She got rear ended while she was stopped at a light. Um and then >> she's around mid-50s so it's pretty slow

progress recovery. >> What was she doing beforehand? What was what was her job and what was she earning?

She was doing uh a bunch of different things, but she at that time she was

doing uh Uber as a side gig. And then

>> Okay. I think what the ways that you can help her are as following. Help her uh get her brother off the loan. That's thing one. Thing two is I want you to

help her with the career side of things.

We're going to give you Kim's uh find the work you're wired to do assessment.

Uh it's a book that'll help you and there's an assessment inside. help her go through that because she it sounds like she needs to create stability in her career or create a career so that she can create stability in her finances going forward. I hope she's well and I hope she recovers very very quickly.

>> And I would just add you siblings need to get together and essentially fire this brother >> Yeah. from her life for a while.

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[music]

[music]

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>> All righty then. Today's question comes from Nicholas in Illinois. He says, "I since I discovered your show last year, I've sold my truck and almost all my furniture. I've worked three jobs, escaped $35,000 of debt, and now have

15,000 sitting in the bank. Well done, my man. My mom wants me to open a credit

card so I can go to Italy with her to

visit my sister without losing any of my recent progress. Wow. I have the money

to pay my way, but she's insistent on me

getting a credit card. How do I explain to her that although that seems like a smart move, it's really not? Uh,

Nicholas, my guy, you haven't told us how old you are. So, I don't know if you're 18. I don't know if you're 35. I don't know how old you are, but the answer remains the same.

I don't think you have to explain anything to your mom, uh, nor listen to her advice. I think you can very politely say, "Thank you for your insight," and move on. >> Yeah, this is a very perspacious young man. I don't know if I said that right.

There's a word I receive. >> What are you trying to say? >> He's very He's got good insight. He He picked up on this this this temptation issue.

>> Perspicious. >> Yeah. Have you ever heard that before? I like a good word.

>> It's like one with keen insight. Is that okay? >> Yes, it is.

So, mom is playing the emotional game.

>> Okay. And she's going, "Okay, I'm so proud of you, son. You did a good job, >> but I don't want you to have to use any of that cash. So, let's just go to Italy." and she thinks he's getting ahead and she doesn't understand that

it's a millstone around his neck and he gets it and she's projecting her. She's projecting her fears on him.

>> Here's what you say. Mom, >> I'm sorry. This is my money, my life.

>> I don't agree with you.

>> Like I disagree. This is hard for young

people, by the way. You know, certainly late teens, early 20s, mom and dad have

so much influence. These, by the way, this is a kid who respects his mom.

facts. Yeah. >> There's no question about it. And so it's very very hard where when you you're beginning to to strike out on your own, he clearly has on some level, certainly has with his money.

>> And then a parent comes in and says, "Do something." And again, whether it's money or something else, and a parent makes a strong suggestion.

>> Yes. >> It's really hard to go against your instinct. Your whole life, you've tried to say yes so you don't get in trouble.

And now you're in a place where you go, "That doesn't make any sense and I'm not really going to get in trouble except for if I do what mom says, I'm actually in financial trouble." It's really confusing. And so I'm kind of expanding this to our very large audience on this to say, "Hey, [snorts] young people, look, when you finally figure this stuff out and you agree with what we teach, at some point you're going to have to go, thanks. I really appreciate your insight. I disagree. I'm not going to do

it. Here's why." >> Well, do you even confidently walk away?

But here's that. Here's my my argument.

Do you even have to explain why? That's my thing. Cuz my >> you don't have to. >> That's a that's a credit. >> Very good point. So my answer to that is he doesn't have to, but I think it's expedient to do so. In other words, you

can honor your parents and still say no.

>> That's right. >> And I think in this case, I'm always going to say honor them once. If they keep coming back, go I I'm not actually going to have this conversation.

>> Okay. Let me crack the door open on another piece of this um puzzle. And

you've got two older boys, so I think that you're >> the what was the word you use?

>> Perspeacious. Yes. Very good. >> You have a ppeacious uh You're really leaning in on my word. I appreciate that. I'm just trying to reuse it for you. Okay. So, you've got two older boys. How much and and we don't know how old Nicholas is.

>> How much of this is due to oversharing?

Because I know I got to the point pretty early on where it's for my parents to know how much money I have that I sold my truck that I got 15,000 over here that I don't have credit. Like that's a lot for a parent to know for a grown adult. >> Uh that's a really good question. I don't know the answer.

Uh could be. And I think it's a very good point to say, you know, if let's say he's in his early 20s. Um yeah, he doesn't need to be sharing all that information. If mom says, "Hey, we want you to go to Italy." He goes, "All right, let me uh let me check.

Let me see if I can do that." and he says, "Yes, that's a very good point." In other words, at some point, you've got to create your own financial independence by not sharing all that. >> It's it's just your business point.

you know, it's been a long time. But I

don't think when I went to college and I started working, >> did you share >> that I was sharing with my parents how much I had in the bank account?

>> I I definitely did not. Uh I might say

something like, "Hey, I'm thinking of getting new a new car. or I have 10,000 to spend. What do you think I should get? Like I might say something like that.

>> Yeah, >> but to just for them to just know all my business out in the streets like this guy here. Definitely not. >> It's a very good point. Create a boundary there.

Let's go to Grace in Atlanta, Georgia. Grace, how can we help? >> Hi. Um I'm 29 years old.

My husband is 30 and we've been going back and forth on whether we are ready to buy a house or not.

and have plenty of emergency funds after that. But I think we're ready.

>> And what what is your financial position if you're ready? What do you have to put down? >> Um I think we have the 20% down. I think

his biggest concern is that I bought a

house uh during COVID. Um, but that house is currently being rented and so the mortgage is being covered plus a little bit more. Um, >> oh, he's worried about taking on two mortgages. >> Absolutely. >> And I agree with him.

>> Why wouldn't you um why wouldn't you get

rid of your existing mortgage and put that money towards the down payment and security on your family home with him?

>> Well, um, because at the moment it's being rented and it has been for two or three years. When's >> the lease up?

Um, I believe uh the end of this year.

>> Okay, >> that's what I would do. I would move into that house. You've already bought a home and you got renters and you've you have basically dodged a major bullet thus far. Sounds like >> in other words, you're barely making enough to cover the mortgage. Yes.

>> Uh, well, the Well, yes. I think I make

like $300.

That's a whopping $3,600

a year. Woo! Grace, you're getting rich on that one. And that doesn't include your actual expenses on said house.

>> Correct. >> Which if it you hold it long enough, >> you hold it long enough, you will end up going in the negative in one year, maybe two consecutive years in a row. I am not negative. I am positive that will happen. And [snorts] so if it's me, I'm

I'm going to move into this house at the end of the year. And now we're building equity. You're already building equity, which is great, but now you live in it. I would not buy another house. >> I want to know I want to know about that current house. What is the mortgage on it? What do you owe every month on it?

>> You were the So we haven't So the We

currently we did not buy a second home.

We are wanting to buy a second home.

>> I'm talking about the current rental. What's the mortgage on it? Oh. Um, I

have 200,000 left.

>> Great. >> What do you pay every month?

>> Every month, uh, 1,200.

>> Okay. And what's you guys' income? You and your your husband?

>> Uh, I get a 100,000 every year before

taxes and my husband makes 130 before

tax. >> Excellent. Okay. So, even if you, to Ken's point, if you, you know, after the lease is up, renters are out, you guys moved in, or if you wanted to sell it and get something that suits you guys' needs, I would 100% do that deal >> in two seconds. >> How much is that house worth?

>> Um, about 300, maybe 310.

>> So, you'd walk away with 110. How much do you guys have saved right now for a down payment? >> Um, I have 147,000, but that includes

>> No, no, no. Don't give me that. How much do you have? that's set aside just for a down payment. >> Just for a down payment, I would say

47,000 and my husband about 15,000.

>> Okay. So, we're separate finances. We don't have time to cover that one. >> We'll talk about that later. >> I I I think you guys either move into that house >> or you sell it. And now you guys have about 200 grand if I'm doing quick math or just under 200 grand to put towards another home. >> That's the play. not keep both houses, not create another mortgage, and then, you know, play this uh roulette game of

landlording. >> And just to set the record straight, the what you're aiming for more so than the 20% down, what you're looking for is for that payment to be no more than 25% of your take-home fee, all included.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit [music] Union studio.

I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside and Peter is on the line in

Ottawa. Peter, how can we help today?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. Uh I'm

23 years old and I'm trying my best to

manage a business

and uh I'm having you know trouble with

it or actually I'm having trouble with the with the with the decision that I want to keep doing this. >> Is it your business or are you managing it for someone else? Uh it

it's my dad's business, but I've been managing him for for like two years now because he's not he's not well.

>> Okay. And so what is your dilemma?

>> Uh I'm I'm I'm just stuck in a lot of debt that I don't know how to get out of

uh I don't know if I want to keep doing this >> the job. >> On the other hand, I don't know. I don't know what else I would do would do, you

know. >> Okay. >> With myself. >> Okay. So, I'm glad you share it that way. So, I'm going to do a quick analysis. Tell me if I'm right. Feels like our biggest problem is the 200,000 in debt. The secondary problem is I don't want to run my dad's company the rest of my life. That's the secondary problem. Is that a good way of laying it out? >> Uh, I do want to run it. It's not that I

don't want to run it. It's It's just I don't know how to >> You don't know how to run it, >> you know? >> Yeah. Cuz clearly I'm not doing doing that good of a job.

>> Self awareness. >> Okay. And the company's not doing well.

>> Uh it was up until my dad got really

sick. Like really really sick. Okay.

>> And uh I had to take care of him for about 2 three months and the company didn't run without me.

>> Okay. And now where are we at?

>> Uh we're at I I just had my warehouse

closed out for 3 months for for non-payment of the rent and I just got it opened with some negotiation. And how's your dad?

>> He's better. That's why I got back to it. >> Okay. >> I mean, he's still sick. That's that's part of my, you know, uh >> I understand. But I'm leaning in here to say, uh it sounds like you were doing okay running it until you were the only caretaker or felt you were the only caretaker for your dad. And at which point you weren't doing hardly anything at all. It doesn't sound like you were um clueless. Is that you were not present. Is that true?

That is >> okay. So, let me ask another question.

If you're back involved and dad is not

as sick and he might be well enough to

uh guide you, do you feel confident you can get this thing back on the tracks?

>> I uh I am confident. It's just it just I

don't I don't know how to put it on paper. I don't know how to plan this.

That's >> You don't know how to plan? And and the reason I'm leaning into this is because this is your sole source of income right now and you have a lot of debt. So we got to figure out where you need to be spending your time so you can make money because it's money and cutting. And Jay's going to come in and walk you through where you're cutting. But I'm trying to get an idea of what is before you to where you can make money. So one

more followup. When you say you don't know how to put it on paper, can you be specific? What do you mean?

>> Uh it's it's just how to manage the debt that I'm in. Oh. So, so I'm 200,000 total in debt, but a 100,000 of it is is like a vendor debt, which I'm not worried about. As I make orders, I cut it pieces. >> Is the is any of this personal debt?

>> Uh the other 100,000 is it's not

personal, but it's like taken from family and friends.

>> Okay. It's your debt, though. It's not the company's debt. >> It's it's not the company's debt. It's my debt. >> Okay. And the and then the other 100,000 is the company debt.

>> It is the the company debt. Yeah.

>> Okay. Well, okay. These are two different situations. So, that's good for us to know. What are you paying yourself or what are you getting paid?

>> Uh up until 3 months ago, I was I was

paying myself enough to, you know, uh

around 4,000 a month. Enough for my rent and expenses.

>> Okay. All right. I want to bring Jade in here because we got two lines of debt here. One is the company's debt and one is your personal debt.

And that's where >> I don't know if it's I'm sorry. I don't know if it's going to be different, but the 100,000 that's personal. I took it to help the company. I don't know if it's it's any different.

>> So, you borrowed money from family and you personally borrowed the money from family and friends to use that money for the business. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, then it's all business debt.

I mean, >> okay, now we got that. >> We get We It was all for the business. Let me put it like that. Okay.

So, the only way to clear this is to bring in more revenue that can be converted to using to pay off the debt.

>> Correct. >> So, what do you see? Do you see possibilities to do that? Are you I don't know what the nature of the business is. What do you guys do?

>> Uh it's it's a used clothing business. I sort them into categories and ship them out ship them out to Africa.

>> Oh my gosh. >> In Africa. >> Okay. Very interesting. I know nothing about that world. I'm going to tell you that straight up. But I can tell you right here what I'm the way to pay off debt, right, is you have to have more money coming in that can be used for that purpose. So it goes back to Ken's question, which is how suited do you feel to do that? And more the bigger

question is you're 23. Is this what you want to be doing with your life? Uh if

not, we need to talk about that and how to offload this to the right person.

the the Okay. The the dilemma I'm in is is I like the work. I just don't like

the stress.

>> Okay. What's causing you the stress? The debt or the work?

>> The debt? The work. I'm I'm good at the work. I was working with my dad in high school. So, I'm I'm fine with the work.

I am involved. I was involved with it. I know inside and out. I know.

>> Okay. But let's go back a step. >> Inside and out. >> Let's go back. I I appreciate that. But let's go back a step. you at some point needed to borrow or you thought you did rather. Let me let me stipulate. You thought you needed to borrow $100,000 from family just to keep this thing afloat. We're not even talking about the initial $100,000. This company is not healthy. True or false?

Regardless of you being there and dad being there, somewhere along the line, this company started taking on water in the form of debt because you didn't have enough revenue. Am I right?

>> Yes, you are. That was partly due to my bad decisions, but it is true.

>> Well, there's part of this I have a just a log a technical question really. If you exit this business, if you say, you know what, I'm not suited for this. I'm going on. Will the will will will your

dad and family view the $200,000 as

money you personally need to pay back?

Or will they view it as that lives in the business and it's up to whoever or whatever goes on with the business to cover that? How will they view it? And how do you view it?

That's that's that what's what I was thinking is the 100,000 that's personal that's going to stay with me regardless >> even though it went to the business >> just cuz you raised it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The other 100,000 if I were to you know sell the business or the other options that 100,000 the the vendor debt's going to stay with the company. >> See I disagree with that. If you show the receipt, if if you are able to show the receipts uh literally of how that

money was raised for the business, I don't think that that's uh the case. I don't think that that debt does follow you. You're running this business and that's how you raise money. >> Either way, either way, my friend, the only way out of the stress is a lot of hustle and I you're going to have to get somebody else that helps.

Dad, you have got to take this company on your back, learn from your mistakes, go get some advice from people in your world, and you're going to have to take a real shot at this to get this better. But if in about 3 to 6 months something doesn't turn around with your overactivity, then we're going to have to shut it down. You got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

Uh you should check it out. I think it's a great lyric because I think this is your situation. You got to make the decision sooner. You're going to keep digging deeper.

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[music] All

right, let's go to Diana in Las Vegas.

Diana, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Yes. I was wondering if um my

husband and I can afford to buy a new Model Y Tesla.

>> Okay. >> I like these questions. [laughter] walk us through the uh potential doubt.

What would be causing a lack of certainty?

>> Um my husband thinks um I'm being careless and not thinking about our retirement, but I think we have more than enough for retirement and I think we're oversaving. It's it's it's time for us to actually loosen up the belt a little bit and enjoy life.

>> I like the sound of that. Tell us how how much is your nest egg?

>> Okay, so right now we have over 1 million. is spread out between our 401, our Roth, um our brokerage account. Um we also have 11,000 emergency fund, uh

20,000 right now that uh that we already

saved up cuz we're planning to go to Europe to experience Christmas market this November. >> Nice. >> Um we don't have any debt except for our

mortgage. That's um we still owe 380,000.

>> The value of the home is 1.5.

>> Okay. So, we have we have lots of equity. >> And then um >> um and then right now and we still owe

um car car for we still owe about 15,000. We have another Model Y, but my

son um he's he's driving soon and I want

to give him the old Model Y and buy us a new Model Y. >> Gotcha. And when you said over 1 million, is it like 1.1 or is it like

1.8? like how much over 1 million?

>> Um one one point so 700,000 for pre-tax

401k we have 129 on our Roth. We have

200,000 on our brokerage and then 11,000

rainy day fund and the 20,000 for the

>> Okay, so here's where I'm at. Um I think you've done extremely well and I want you to hear that first and foremost. You guys have really set yourselves up. How old are you?

>> Oh, we're 47. >> 47. Excellent. Good job. Um, excellent.

Thank you. Uh, I think that you could be in a better position before purchasing this vehicle. How much does a Model Y cost? >> Uh, right now, um, it's only for it's 41

>> 41,000. >> And what's you guys' income?

>> Uh, 280. >> Okay. So, my biggest I mean, the glaring

thing here is why haven't you paid off the first Model Y? It's 15,000 for crying out loud. be because he he says

um because of the interest is low.

>> So what he wants to do is the money just putting you know just just maxing out

our our retirement and our Roth because

um right now the market is we get about 14 to like 18% returns. So

>> Diana, do you consider yourself Ramsay folk? Like are you are you >> Yes. Yes. I've been paying extra on my

mortgage like >> No. [laughter] Okay, >> take us back to the take us back to the show or the part in a Ramsay book where uh where we would be okay with you not paying off the car. I'm just curious.

>> Do you have a page number?

>> Or an episode number? [laughter] >> I should reread the book again. That's how we live by [laughter] no debt except for mortgage. But then >> spoiler alert, it's not in there. We're

playing. We're playing. We're we're we're uh we're being hard on you, Diana.

[laughter] >> No, I'm not. I'm having a blast.

>> Well, my husband tells me what he wants to do is the 20,000 that we saved up for traveling is pay off the Tesla, and we're not going to go traveling this year, but >> Okay, great. >> I've been saving. I've been saving for so long, working overtime to really go on that trip. >> Well, here's the thing.

I think you can do I think you can do both. Let me tell you how. I think you can do both. I think you have more money here than you think.

It's just how are we going to allocate it?

Okay, 20,000 saved cash over and above

your emergency fund. So yeah, let's say we take 15 of that. We pay off the first Model Y. Now we have 5,000 left and we keep that in our vacation fund. 5,000.

How, by the way, how much is the vacation going to cost total? [snorts] >> 15. >> Okay. So we got 10 more to save. Now tell me, what do you guys bring in every single month? Again, >> uh, take home 15,000.

15,000 a month. >> And when is the vacation? >> Yes, >> I'm planning November, Thanksgiving.

>> Okay. >> Got plenty of time to do that. Just out of your take home. >> How much is your mortgage payment?

>> Uh, including taxes, insurance, it's 2,900, but 35. Here's what it is. Here's I'm going to tell you what it is. You guys have a very loose budget.

>> And so the 15,000 it's going here, it's going there. It's, you know, you go out to eat, you do a little of this, a little of that. If you just got very intentional and said, "Okay, and that before November, we need to save up $10,000." Making 15,000 a month and the

only debt is your mortgage, which is 2,000, should not be a problem at all.

>> The Model Y, oh, if we paid off the Model Y, I see. Okay. >> And now when we start talking about the second Model Y, uh, I don't know, is that is that used or is that brand new?

The 41,000 uh, that you quoted, we we're

looking at brand new. Okay. What if you just said, "Hey, instead of us taking the hit on an EV, by the way, why not let somebody else take the hit and buy one that's slightly used?"

>> Sure. But I I'm looking at the tax uh the what do I call that? The tax deduction if you if you bought like no taxes on tax if you bought new cars made

in the USA. >> I don't even know. I'm going to be honest. I don't know what you just said, but all I'm thinking about is [laughter] how you're going to be able to have your vacation and your Model Y and not take a major hit on your used vehicle. That's what I'm thinking. Now, you can go back and do the math on whatever rebate it is that you're talking about, but in this position, I I would not advise you to

buy this car outright brand new in this position. >> No. And I think the vacation's more important to you, isn't it?

>> Yes. I like to build good memories with my children.

helping. >> Okay, now that's the mindset cuz I don't think you're going to listen to a word we said about financial advice to be completely honest with you. But if I can get through to you on this, then I feel like I got a win for you. So I think you got to go, wait a second, what's more important to me? Because I can't do all three because I think you and your husband are on different pages. Is that true or false?

>> Correct. I think since we hit our goal,

which which was one >> I think your husband's right. I think your husband's right about everything except for the fact that he doesn't think you guys can save up enough cash between now and November to cash flow the vacation. That's where he's wrong, but he's right on everything else. So, if I'm you and and life is short,

>> that vacation is going to be something that you will look back on the rest of your life. You will not look back on this new Model Y. No, you won't.

>> You just won't. >> Because listen, this and I mean this this is not a disrespect. Folks like you who love fancy technical cars that drive themselves, you get over cars like that because the newest model's out. Okay, >> guys like me, all I want are classic cars that no one can track and they smell a little bit more than every other car and you feel every second of the

road. I don't give two craps about an electric car. Never going to. It doesn't feel like a car. So, here's the deal.

you buy that car and don't go on vacation, you will regret that. But if you cash flow your vacation, pay off the Model Y, you won't have any regrets at all. Now, you may not believe me, but I'm right.

>> And that's the mindset. >> Then what about what about for a car that my my son will should be will be driving? >> I think I think you can cash flow after you pay it off. I think you can cash flow another vehicle, whether it's a Model Y or whatever, another used vehicle, >> but only secondary to funding that vacation because the vacation is where your heart is at.

>> I think in the next 12 months, you can do both. Let me put it like that. >> I think so, too. But vacation is the highest priority.

>> Yes, I really would like to go on Thanksgiving. >> So then you got to give up So you got to you got to get on Hubs's page then.

>> And this is where we compromise. And to Jade's point, you'll get your fancy electric car down the road.

>> And and let me also clarify because how old is the boy?

>> The son, >> um, he's turning 16.

>> Okay. Can I just tell you, you are the priority here, my friend. So, if you pay off the Model Y and it's not time for you to buy another one yet, guess who's driving it?

>> You. That's a great >> You are driving It's your car. He will be strong. >> I drove a Fred Fllynstone car when I was 16. [laughter] Like I had to stop the car with my own feet. >> I had to accelerate by digging in my heels in. This kid doesn't need a Model Y. >> The other thing [laughter] my my we I do have my old uh 2005 G35 Infiniti that my

husband would like to give to myself. It has over 160,000 cares. I drove a car

that had 275,000 m on it. It was such a piece of crap. same car I'm talking about. I could drive down the interstate and play tricks on my friends by pulling the key out of the ignition [laughter] while driving it. Please, he can handle

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[music]

All right, folks. If you're debtree, the live like no one else cruise is your chance to celebrate. hang out with us and Dave for new sessions on building wealth, live episodes of our shows, and the world's largest debt-free scream. I

remember when they did it last year was pretty wild. Um, and next thing I'm walking through the ship and I was trying to get to at least one of the areas and then there it is on the screen. Dave is up there with the captain, got the microphone, you know, he looked like he was in charge of the ship. >> Yeah. >> And uh, everybody screamed at once.

Really, really fun. Uh, and you can secure your cabin with a $600 deposit and join us in the Western Caribbean March 2027. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramiesolutions.com/events

to book your cabin today. All right, Jeff and Leonora are up in Pensacola,

Florida, and my screen tells me that you

amazing people are baby steps millionaires. Is this true?

>> That's very true. Wow.

>> Well, first of all, congratulations and welcome to the show. Thanks for being with us. >> Well, thank you. >> Thank you. >> We were actually on the show 10 years ago. >> No way. What? For Jeffrey Scream?

>> No. When uh we uh called it for the uh

millionaire. >> Okay. >> Uh deal. And I told Dave I was retiring that year and he said, "Well, call us back in 10 years and let us know how you've been doing." So, here we are 10 years later. >> Oh, wow. >> Well, that's fantastic. All right. Well, let's get some details here. What is what is your net worth?

>> Well, we'd like to say it's in excess of $2 million, sir. >> You like to say what does that mean?

>> Well, there may be a little bit more in there that's promised to our endowments and things like that that we don't really consider our money anymore.

>> Okay. >> A place to give it away. >> Okay. >> So, we uh we settled on $2 million in our minds as our money.

>> Got it. And what is the mix that creates the 2 million?

Um, we have about a million six in uh

mutual funds and 401ks and then uh then

the remainder in uh real estate.

>> Uh Jeff, I don't know what's going on with the phone here. Uh we're having a hard time understanding you. Your phone's kind of coming in and out.

>> Oh, >> all right. Well, um >> you need to speak closer. That's why >> there it is. Leonora is on top of it.

That's great. Uh >> so 1.6 Six in mutual funds and what is the other 400,000? The mortgage.

>> No, no, no. Real estate. We don't we don't carry mortgages. We don't carry any debt whatsoever.

>> Right. I mean the equity.

>> Oh gosh. I'm going to say half a million

dollars. Okay. >> In equity. >> Perfect. >> Fantastic. And uh >> what is your income or what was your income? Give us kind of your lowest income ever and then what you guys may have finished out at your highest income. Our lowest income ever was probably

uh 30 40,000

uh to 50. >> Okay. >> Um and it grew to an average between the

both of us of uh I'd say 150

>> um towards the end of our saving years.

>> Okay, great. And what did you guys do?

>> We're both medical professionals. I'm a trauma nurse and a paramedic. And my wife, Leodora, uh, she's a registered nurse. >> Okay. Wow. Great. >> You were an ER director for years as well. >> Oh, fantastic. Okay. And your ages right now? >> I'm 68. >> I'm 71. >> Okay, great. And any of this money inherited at all?

>> No. >> The [laughter] chuckle, the knowing chuckle that we asked, just so people realize, you can actually do this without inheriting money. Wow. Really

fun. Uh what would you say to young people uh who, you know, are just

getting started, maybe they're a young couple, maybe they're in in the medical profession, you know, and they they don't they wonder, is this possible?

What would you tell them they need to do to actually get where you guys are?

>> Well, I would say no amount is too small

to start saving and to clear all your

debt. Um my husband that was his his

clarion call, no debt. and um and he a

lot of that he he learned from uh Dave

Ramsey and uh and listening to him and

reading his books and we lived by that rule and um because we were we had lots

of debt when we were young when we were first married and uh very little very

little we hand-tomouth as they say

>> but uh we just struggled you make sacrifices but you have to have your eyes on the prize guys. And it wasn't always easy, but it's without fail, hard

work, determination, and commitment. Uh,

you can do anything. >> I love it. And we just saw an awesome picture of you two on a cruise ship.

>> Uh, so what is describe what life is like now on the other side of all that hardship and discipline that you talked about? >> Well, basically right now we we still survive just on our social security checks, believe it or not. >> Okay. But every once in a while we splurge and we've splurged to the tune of about five cruises this year.

>> That's awesome. >> Um I'm sorry.

>> I said that's incredible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We've been to the South Pacific and Fiji and all all those

islands and places out there and Alaska and a number of different destinations

and um you know so we're just we we understand our mortality being our ages that we are. So, uh, we're going to spend a little bit of it. >> Well, we're so proud. You guys are heroes.

We're so proud of what you've accomplished. >> That's awesome. Jeff and Leonora, thank you so much. Uh, our baby steps millionaires today.

Thanks for sharing your story. I love it. And, uh, there's so many young couples that could aspire to that. And here's what I love about that, Jade.

You know, Leonor laid it out. There wasn't any fancy strategy, right? It was just gods and grandma's ways of handling money. The same theme that we've had uh on this show for decades.

So, thank you all again for sharing your story.

Let's go to Nick in San Francisco. Nick, how can we help?

>> I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on?

>> Uh, as you I live in California and as

you can imagine, uh, housing is extremely expensive here. And I was wondering if it makes sense to buy a rental property before buying like a

primary property.

Um, what would be the purpose of doing that first? Is it a size issue? Like, is it a rental is way smaller than what you need, but at least it gets you in the door? What's What's the play here?

>> I mean, my my thought process is I mean,

in my area, I'm looking at maybe 700,000, even more, to just buy a starter home when I was looking in other states to buy a rental home for, you know, much cheaper, much, much cheaper. and I was I

would be able to buy it outright and

I'm looking to make money off that.

>> What are you doing for a living right now? Just renting somewhere.

>> Um I live in a rental uh apartment

that's owned by my family and I pay about 600 a month plus utilities.

>> Do you have to live in your area or are

you able to work from anywhere? I have to live in my area. >> Okay. Why would you think about buying a house out of state and dealing with all that headache? >> Is it? Yeah. What do you think's going to happen? You're going to turn a quick profit? I I'm still trying to understand. >> No, I'm just looking I mean I'm just looking like in the long term to see if it's if it makes sense. I mean, I have money to buy a property.

>> How much? >> And it um I have three 300 to 350,000.

>> What do you make per year? I make 130,000. >> So, help me understand. You've got 350,000 to spend. Something in your area

would cost 700. So, you could essentially put half down. I'm still trying to make sense of what the outofstate rental property would do for you. I'm just sort of looking at the fact that I mean I mean I'm looking at the

fact that property taxes and insurance

are much cheaper there and I'm just looking to >> But would you are you moving but is it for an investment? No, you're not going to move. >> Not for an investment because I mean >> I would invest that reason >> I wouldn't buy a house. >> I wouldn't buy real estate in another state. If you're looking to earn quick

compounding interest, I would not invest in another property in another state. I would simply drop it in an S&P 500 index

fund and let it sit for the next 5 years. Agree. >> And keep adding to it, you know, and just kind of have a 5year horizon on this and before you know it, you'll have a $700,000 property.

Heat.

[music]

[music]

Heat.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey folks, have you heard about Ask Ramsay? if you haven't. It's our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down some of the most asked questions from this week. There are some questions around life insurance. Uh but the most asked question was around retirement accounts rules and options for contributing to multiple types of accounts, IRA, 401ks, 403bs, TSPs, so

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ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

So, there it is. Ask Ramsey. Just type it in and there it goes. Tony is up next in Houston, Texas. Tony, how can we help?

>> Hey, >> hi. Can you hear me? I can hear you loud and clear. What's going on?

>> Hey, happy Friday. So, uh I'm in a

situation where I've recently I recently

got a good well-paying job uh right out of college. Um but the my family has

some debts and they are asking me to pay

the debts for >> what? No. >> Goodness gracious. >> Hard pass. Oh, >> when you say you got a good job with good money, tell us what that exactly what that means. What are you doing and what do you earn?

>> Uh, okay. So, I'm a machine learning uh consultant for a telecommunication company. I'm earning uh 285k per year.

>> Um, >> how do they know that?

>> And they know that you told them that information. >> Oh boy, >> that was a >> to Jade's point. Jade make a great point here and you made this point earlier so I got to follow up. How soon did the ask or did the ask for the for you to help them with their debts come after you told them about this new gig or were they already pressuring you?

>> No, they were not. They were very supportive and I thought they would just be, you know, be like, "Yeah." >> So once they found out about the new raise, they said, "Help us."

>> Yeah. And dad has

three cars and he's asking me to pay all of them. >> And I hear fund your sister's college, too. I see that on the screen.

>> What? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Let me tell you what I would tell them.

>> You [laughter] You aren't making 285 million. >> I know. What's happen? >> 285 after taxes doesn't take care of those problems. >> Is this uh Can I ask straight up? Is this uh anything culturally related that

we need to know about or is this just people who are off their rocker?

Well, uh I am Asian. So,

>> is there an expectation for the sons to pay for the parents?

>> Um there's no expectation usually. I mean, I thought, you know, we would be >> just dealing with our debts and things like obviously like I'm open to helping them, but >> but there's there's nothing there is no tradition there that you feel like they are relying on that you no longer believe in. Do you see what I'm saying?

No, there's no tradition, no culture

thing. >> Okay. So, let me ask you a question, Tony. >> Why' you call us?

>> Because when I immediately said no, you

went [gasps] [sighs] >> So, we want to help.

>> Uhhuh. >> But why' you call? How can we help you?

The thing is I love my family and I I currently live with them. But the thing is this situation is and it it really is

taking a toll on my mental health at dinner at >> How can we help you? >> I think you got to move out. Tony, >> what's your question?

>> I kind of want to know your opinion. Do you would you if you were in my shoes, would you just >> I would Tony I would move out. You are

grown first off. Money aside, what you

make career aside, you're grown, so it's time to move out. That's thing one. >> And not pay them a nickel. >> And not pay them a nickel. And thing two, by you moving out and separating yourself from their expectations, you get to go home and eat a sandwich and

not ever think about this again. Versus being in their house like you said, every night at dinner, they're going to bring it up. In the morning, you know, when your mom sees you before you go to work, she's going to R. Do you see what I'm saying? So you're keeping yourself in that that guilt-ridden environment.

Take yourself out. Remove yourself from the conversation. >> Yeah. There is nothing else for us to say. You will resent your family. The

very family you love, you will resent >> if you capitulate to their manipulation.

Don't do it. >> It's it's it's going to burn the bridge though, I'm afraid. >> No, it's not. You you will not Here's the thing. I know. I just got very hot handed. very very quickly. You are not burning the bridge, Tony. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying I

went to school. I earned this income.

This is my life. There is nothing stopping sister from doing the same and mom and dad. It's never been my responsibility to pay off your mortgage.

>> Three cars. >> And I that's where I stand. That is the

the the barrier and the the boundary that I'm putting in place. I really hope you guys can understand that because that is perfectly logical and it makes perfect sense.

>> Period. >> Done. It it it and and if it burns the bridge, that's on them. Uh you can't do anything about this. Uh I feel for you, but only to a degree because I'm telling you, we see Jade and I are sitting in the enviable position of not having any emotion attached to this. That's right.

>> And our audience, we got people in the lobby. They're shaking their head. No, Tony. No. because we aren't attached to this and so none of us have the fear.

And I honestly think that the best thing you can do in a situation like this is call family members bluffs.

>> Yes. >> Call their bluff. And uh so move out today. Don't pay them a nickel. Tell them why. Tell them you're happy to guide them on on what they should be doing if they're willing to listen. Um but absolutely not. And and I'm sorry we got to cut it there. I love that you said go home. What kind of sandwich?

>> Uh for you know up on me.

>> I don't even know. See what? You're so fancy. What is that? Nobody in America knows what you're doing. >> Like a nice bun and there's like pork and like >> green boni. Anybody?

>> You guys know what that is? >> Bonme. >> Kelly does. B me.

>> And there's like like mayonnaise in there. A barbecue sandwich.

>> I don't know. It's Vietnamese. It's delicious. Or >> boy, I got to tell you, this is exciting. Now I'm glad I asked cuz now I have a new sandwich I need to try. >> Or you could do maybe he's eating a BLT, like just a bacon, lettuce, tomato.

>> Mhm. Well, you know why I asked? Because this is tough emotionally. I'm having a little fun, but I love how you kind of said go. And I actually think when you when you take a decision like this and take a stand, you need to emotionally eat. >> And I was 100%.

>> You know what my emotional go-to sandwich is? >> Tell me right now. >> PB&J. >> Oh, really? That's >> And I'm going to chase it with a glass of milk. >> Oh. >> Like I'm 10 years old. I know you hate milk, but I'm just saying. PB&J. Listen, [laughter] Stacy ain't coming anywhere near that mouth after peanut butter and milk. Get out of here. [laughter] >> What are you talking about? So

judgmental. >> I'm just looking out for Stacy in all of this. That's all. >> All right, America, [laughter] you guys can comment. What's your favorite emotional sandwich? Have you ever >> BLT? BLT. >> BLT. Kelly the producer. Let's get Kelly the producer in here. What's your go-to emotional sandwich? You've had a rough day and you're going to eat a sandwich to feel better. What is it?

>> Turkey with bacon for sure. Extra crispy.

>> Any condiments?

>> Homemade ranch. >> Oo, always with the homemade ranch.

Honorable mention, meatball sub.

>> Okay. Okay. I feel like that's pizza.

Uh, I'm not sure that's a sandwich. I think that's pizza. I think it's pizza.

>> Do you know what I mean? >> I'm just >> You don't think so? You think that meatball is a sandwich? >> I'm flabbergasted that you would not call a meatball sub a sandwich.

flabbergasted. >> I It's got the sauce. It's got the cheese. You're putting cheese on it.

>> Absolutely. Mozzarella provolone.

>> It's a meat pizza. It's It's all that is. >> Oh wow. >> You know what I mean? It's the same. It's got all the same ingredients. >> It's on a It's on a bun >> versus like a sandwich. I'll tell you what. I'm going to a Philly Philly cheese. >> Okay. Now listen. >> Now you're Now you're about some business. Yeah. >> PB&J. >> I need the Philly. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. That's what I need. Need that need that protein, the extra cheese, some pepper. Mhm. >> Deal with all my emotions.

>> I like that. >> All right, there you go, folks. >> Emotional eating is what we're suggesting. >> This is what people come for. Great [laughter] life advice. And then a good conversation about a sandwich >> with a side of homemade ranch.

>> Way to go, Kelly.

>> [music]

[snorts]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thank you for being with us. The phone number to jump in isle82552258

8255225.

Huntsville, Alabama is where Denise is waiting. Denise, how can we help?

>> Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

I appreciate it. >> You bet.

>> Um, here's the here's the short of it.

I'm 54 years old. I've been a widow twice. >> Oh my god. >> And I have no retirement saved. Um,

and I my income does not does not um it

doesn't cover my expenses. Um, I I had

credit card debt and I got I ended up

having to call National Debt Recovery to turn those over to them and it wasn't even a lot of debt. It was just $10,000 that me and my past husband had incured um paying his medical bills. M

>> um so after he died, it left me with that debt and and I had one income instead of two. So >> sure, >> I went ahead [clears throat] and turned those over and and um I just recently

paid one of the smaller credit cards that I just refuse to turn over. I paid it off. Um I don't have a lot of debt,

but it doesn't I I'm just not able to

pay pay my bills and I've sewed

everything that I could sell that I can live without. >> Okay. >> Um I downsized. I got rid of the truck and downsized to an economical little

Mazda 3 that I drive to work. I work 45 minutes away. >> Okay. What do you make?

>> I make $16 an hour. So, I end up bringing home depending on the week I can it's anywhere from 1,500 to a,000.

>> Okay. >> Every two weeks. >> And um the little Mazda 3, is that paid

for? >> It is actually not paid for yet. I still owe like 2500 on it and I only bought it for 4,000. It's It's got 200,000 miles on it, but it's a decent good car.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> I am a front desk. Um [clears throat]

I take co-pays um collect I work for a doctor's office basically. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay. Can you walk us through your debt? The remaining debt you have go smallest to largest.

>> Smallest to largest. Um

smallest would be Can I just go down the list the way I have it wrote down? >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.

>> I'm sorry. The house is 800 a month and I still owe 124,000 on it.

>> Okay. >> Um I don't think I could rent cheaper.

The payments are $800 a month. I don't even think I could rent cheaper than that. You're doing good there.

>> The health insurance I go to have to go through the market and it's for me and my child. It's $50 a month.

>> Well, I don't need your monthly bills. I just want to know your debt.

>> Oh, my debt. I'm sorry.

>> Okay, that's all that's all fine. What I have left in debt is the car, which is right at 2500. Okay.

>> And I already got rid of the credit card, the other credit card, but then I have that 10,000 that I've turned over to National Debt Recovery.

>> Okay. That's actively being they're actively covering that.

>> Yeah, they take a 100. They just started after Thanksgiving last year. They start they take 150 out of every paycheck for 29 months.

>> Oh boy. Can you Can you get out of that?

What's the penalty for counseling that?

I'm actually not sure. >> I want you to check into that. Um, okay.

>> It you you might be on the hook for some fees, but all they're going to do is stack those $150 payments off to the side and they're going to let this default and then they're going to try to make a deal. That's what they're going to do. And that's honestly something that you could do yourself if you chose to do. But I don't know that you need to do that just yet.

That's going to tank your credit. It's going to >> it it's not good. And uh like I said, there's usually uh a good amount of fees attached to that. So, I would if you can get out of that and it's it's reasonable.

I don't know how much you've already paid in, but I would get out of that um pretty much immediately. So, after the car, the 2500 and after this 10,000, is there anything left? Is there any other debt? >> No.

N >> Okay. So, the good news is the good news is your mortgage is awesome. The $800 a month, you're right. You can't rent cheaper than that. Uh, and the good news is you've got $12,500 of debt, which

under the circumstances, I don't know why I was expecting, but I thought it was going to be a lot more. Now, the problem is, uh, if you have a month-to-month income issue and there's no margin, that $12,500 of debt feels

like a mountain just because you're struggling to eat, right?

>> Yeah. I want you to So, let's dive in with Jade. Jade's the budget queen. Give us where do you think uh you're spending

too much money?

That's just it. And I don't know. I've went through >> Let's look at it. You make 3,000 a month, give or take, right?

>> Yes. Right. Less than that, actually.

It's more like And I And I work two jobs. So, it's more like I mean, second job. It's about 2500

a month. >> Then it's an income crisis is what you have cuz no matter what you do, that 2500 is not going to feel like enough.

It's >> It's very hard to live on.

>> You're working two jobs. I only heard the one job at 16 an hour.

>> I do the 16 an hour. And then the same company, they asked me if I would clean their office for $120 every Friday.

>> Okay. So, I do that. >> That's after hours. That's the second job. >> Yes. >> But none of them are 40 hours a week.

>> Um the the $16 an hour job is 40 hours a

week and they let me work over all the time to try to help me.

>> Well, that's good news. I mean, I feel like all I do is work. I go in at 8 and I don't get home till 6. >> I know.

But I think we need to get you a higher hourly. That's the problem. >> I do. I think that's the transition.

But I also I believe if you'll let Jade walk you through this here for a couple minutes, a lot of detail. I I got to believe there's there's there's some budgeting issues going on. >> Let's try to find it. So, after let's say you making 2500 after the 800, that leaves you with 1,700.

Then you said for each you and your your daughter, did you say it's 50 bucks a month for health insurance? Yep.

>> It's It's Yeah. $50 a month. Both of us both of us are in there for 50 25 a person. >> Oh, okay. So, that takes us down to uh

1,600 or 1,650. What next? What else?

>> Um water is 35.

>> Uh-huh. What else? >> Electric's 180. >> Okay. >> Progressive car insurance is 100.

>> Okay. Um, I have a one of them Gerber

um, life insuranceances that my mother got on me that if I pass away, it gives my child $10,000 to bury me. It's $7 a

month. >> Okay, we're going to cancel that immediately, but it's seven bucks. Okay, what else? >> And then, um, of course, now I have the new national debt relief of 150 coming out of every >> paycheck. Okay, fine. What else?

>> Cell phones are 90.

>> Okay. Do you do like a consumer cellular or who are you with?

>> We're with Cricket. Okay, good. Next.

>> That's just for two phones.

>> Um, internet's 90.

>> Mhm. >> And then I have a life insurance that I that since both husbands passed away and left me with nothing, I couldn't even hardly bury them. I didn't want to leave my child like that. So, I took out a life insurance plan of 250,000

>> and I paid six for me.

>> Is it Is it term life? Did you do it through Xander? >> Yes, I did it through Shield.

>> Okay. I want you I want you to call up Xander and check it through with them and make sure it's the best possible option. If not, you might be able to pay a little less cuz you said you're paying 248 a month or a quarter.

>> I pay $69 every three months.

>> Okay. Okay. Um >> $250 for a year. >> Okay. >> We got We got about 40 seconds >> right now. I'm I'm seeing you with 900 extra dollars. So, what are you spending on food? >> We don't I'm honest. I We

>> You spend something. If I have a little bit left over, we we spend about 110. If we have anything left over, I'll >> So that leaves me that leaves me on my checklist here. That means you got $830 some odd dollars to spare.

We're going to give you every dollar and you're going to plug this in and you're going to do just what I walked through with you. Every single item, that money is draining somewhere and you don't have the margin for any drains right now. Uh and I believe that you do need to find something that's going to pay you in high a higher hourly rate than $16 an hour. That is where your primary struggle is.

[music]

[music]

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Store or Google Play. Riley is up in

Chicago. Riley, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you for uh having me on the show. Uh I'm 28, my wife is 32. We've

been married for five months now. Um, we're moving. We currently have about $100,000 equity in our current home and kind of wondering what we should do with that equity, whether we should just roll it into the next house. Um, pay off debt and then use the remainder as a down payment or pay off debt and then uh do some remodeling on our new home.

>> Oh, I love this idea. So, 100,000 in equity. How much debt do you guys have?

>> Um, so I I currently have no debt. I'm 100% debtree. Um, my wife has about

$70,000. Uh, she has a car loan uh for

$10,000, a personal loan that she got uh to remodel the house that we're currently in, and that's for $10,000 and then about $50,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, I like the idea of

since you guys happen to be moving, you have this equity and you are newlywood, so it's really a fresh start. I like the idea of taking that 100,000, taking 70 of it uh to pay off uh the existing debt between the two of you and then what I would do with the 30,000 is I'd say how much of this 30

constitutes a 3 to 6 months of expenses for us.

>> What would you say?

>> Um well with the new house and everything it would probably be close to 10 to 12,000 probably.

>> Okay. So we'll say maybe half to be fair. >> And so that leaves you with 15,000. Now, the question is, does that leave you with enough of a down payment for a new house or what would you do?

>> So, yeah. So, I have uh we have 80,000

cash in the bank that we're going to use uh for a down payment already.

>> Okay. So, you could add the other 15 with that cash and have 95.

>> Yep. >> Okay. It does. Now, if you put the 95 down, does that get you where you want to be mortgage payment wise?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we're going to do a 15-year mortgage, and that gets us, it's like, I think when I did the math, like 27% of our monthly income would be our mortgage, and that would be everything in um escrow, property taxes, all that.

>> I love that. 20 I'm Okay, I'm not going to split hairs on that. I love that for you guys. And then, uh how quickly could you then I mean, it sounds like there might be work to do on this house because you mentioned renovations.

>> Yeah, we kind of just want to do a kitchen remodel on the house and then everything else is we can kind of just do as we go. Um, but the house is moving

ready right now. >> How quickly could you save up to do that rena uh in cash?

>> Probably a year. Um, I have overtime opportunities at work, so it's easy for me to come up with extra cash if I need it. >> Listen, you are a very analytical, very logical. This is easy. This is the easiest call I've had all day.

[laughter] >> Thank you.

>> There's no argument. Love it.

>> I do have a question though. The way you worded things, are do you two have separate finances? It doesn't sound like it, but the way you said it earlier, it did sound like it. >> Yes.

And no, like we're kind we're slowly combining our finances. Um I guess the way we have it set up now is out of our paycheck, we put, you know, a certain amount into a shared account and then all of our household income, vacations, food, every all of our living expenses comes out of that. And then we have our separate money for, you know, if I want to buy a toy or whatever, you know, like a a four-wheeler, snowmobile, something like that, or if she wants to go do her hair, whatever it is, then she >> can select, can I suggest a tweak to that?

>> Yep. >> Where you guys still have that personal autonomy. What if you put what if you put all the money in one account? Um, all of it.

amounts of money for you to spend how you want and equal amounts of money for her to spend how she wants.

>> Okay. The Yeah. So I mean, yeah, basically the same just a little bit.

>> Yeah. It's just creating it's creating um >> I don't know if you've how long you've listened to the show, but I can tell you just today we've had two calls where because the the spouses they had separate accounts. It kind of created this feeling uh it created this feeling

that I can kind of do what I want over here and I don't have to tell my spouse and over time things were done that felt like it was crossing the line for the other spouse. >> So what I can see that do you know what I mean? So, putting it in one account says, "Hey, this really is our money." And I know, and I'm just making up numbers here, and I know that I have $500 out of that that I spend on what I want, and she has $500 out of that that she spends on what she wants.

And then from there on now, you've created transparency.

Every once in a while, it just comes up and he's like, "Oh, I bought this new thing." And I'm like, "Oh, great." And I the assumption is and I know oh that's what he spent his money on. But do you see what I'm saying there?

>> Yeah. It makes it more of Yeah. Instead of it makes it more of our money. The whole pot.

There you go. >> This is the easiest call. Your wife.

Wonderful. She [laughter] No arguments. This is great.

>> And and yeah. And Riley, you guys got it together. But just to really put a put a pin in all this. the hour. There's a

real powerful emotion of unity when we

talk about hour and and and by the way, the data bears it out. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> You know what I mean? So, don't I don't need to get on a pulpit on that one today. Evan is up in Rono, Virginia. I

know where that is. Evan, how can we help? >> Hey, thanks for taking my call. You guys are my favorite. When you guys are together, it's one of my favorite com combinations. So, >> that's very nice. We just high-fived Evan in honor of you. Thank you very much. [laughter] >> So I um we're in FPU uh week number

five. Uh >> wow.

>> Did you cut out Evan?

Uh oh. I think our high five slapped him

silly. [laughter] >> Okay, we'll we'll see if we can get Evan back. Uh in the meantime, let's go to Robert in Daytona, Florida. Robert, how can we help?

>> Hey, um how you doing? How's >> life? Uh you know what? We're having a blast. What's going on with you today?

>> So, um, I have a a little bit of a strange little question here and a career change. I'm kind of curious as to how to transfer careers. I'm kind of on

the top of my career right now. So, I'm making the most amount of money that I can right now, but if I'll be switching to the second career, I'll be staying all the way down on the bottom. Um, I'm

making about 125 right now.

>> Mhm. >> My wife is making about 35.

If I switch careers, I'm I'm going to be

dropped to about $25,000 a year.

>> Doing what?

[sighs and gasps] >> Um, well, I'm I'm I'm a mechanic right now and I'm looking at flight instruction. Um, I'm going into aviation. >> Okay. Well, could you even do that? Is it even possible? Have you set your life up to where you can take that big of a hit?

>> I spent $65,000 worth on training so far. >> I didn't ask you that. I asked you because I understand I've taken this call many many times um cuz [snorts] pilot the schooling is outrageous and

they can just charge through the absolute teeth on this. So, is there not a way to be more patient and save save

so that we're we're not taking a big hit here? Because dropping from 135 to 25.

The question I have, we have a limited time. Is your life set up to where you can take that big of a hit, a $100,000 hit, and not be starving? Yes or no?

>> Um, well, that's kind of why I'm calling. Um, I have about we have we have about 20,000 in savings.

>> That's not enough. and we have about

15,000 in like investments and stuff.

>> That's not enough. >> What matters is your monthtomonth. If you can eat every month on what you bring home >> between me and my wife is going to be really, really close. >> I mean, you're going to be down to 55,000. So, what you need to do tonight is a mock budget. So, what is that going to look like? 3700

a month. >> About 32. >> How tall is the program?

Uh, it's the I'm I'm already old taught

and everything. Um, I I I have enough hours to start my career. >> Okay. Well, how long then will you be making 25,000?

>> It's a very good question. A year, two.

>> You better get the answer to that. And then you do what Jade's talking about.

This is all about numbers meeting up with calendars. So, if I'm going to make that for one to two years, I need to know, is that the gospel truth? What is the range? One year, two year, it could be anywhere in there. Okay, great. Now, that's 25,000. So, how much money do we have to save up before I take that role?

And you may have to press pause, Robert.

This sucks. I have to press pause of going into that until we have the money saved up to make up the difference. That will determine whether or not you can do it. Do I have the cash to make up for the shortfall? Really simple. Starts with a budget first.

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

All right. We've got on the debtree stage in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions, Alvaro. Did I say that right?

>> Absolutely. >> Fantastic. Welcome. And you're here to do your debtree scream. I guess >> I am. >> All right. Let's go. Let's get the details. All right. How much debt? It was $90,493.

>> Okay. And how long? >> Took 20 months. >> 20 months. Okay. And what was the range of income? >> I started at 73,000 and currently I'm at 92,000. >> Way to go. >> What What uh led to that?

>> I was an occupational therapist and I I

did a lot of side hustles in this in the meantime. I tutored, repaired glass for phones, uh dog walked. You name it, I did it. >> Love that. >> What kind of debt was it? >> All student loans. >> Hey. Okay. Okay. Very fun. Uh, okay. So,

what happened 20 months ago?

>> I graduated from grad school and I saw the bill and I started seeing how much interest was going to acrue >> and I did the calculations and in interest, if I did the 20-year plan, it was going to be $75,000 extra on top of the student loans. So, essentially, they would have doubled, >> right? >> So, I was like, I can't do that. And during this time it was I was having no

interest acred. So I was like I got to go at it. I got to go ham.

>> So I made a deal with my parents and I asked them hey can I live at home for a year? You guys don't charge me rent but after that you can charge me double rent of whatever you wanted so I can aggressively go at this. So they helped me through this journey >> and then after that they saw how aggressively I was going at it that I wasn't going out. I was doing what I needed to and they're like, "We're going to let you finish off your student loans." They dropped the double rent.

>> They did. >> Nice. >> Just the 20 months. >> That's great. Parents, >> so okay. Uh, give us an average or if you know the exact amount of what you were paying monthly to get there. 90K in 20 months. I can do an average, but I wonder was it was it that clean? Were there certain months over the 20 months where you were able to put more? What did it end up looking like each month paying off debt? >> It was about 5,000 a month. 5,000 plus.

And what was your takehome?

>> It wasn't much. It was like 55 5600.

>> Wow. >> Um, and those were basic things of like I'm going to help with the groceries. I'm going to get gas. I'm >> The biggest goal was my side hustle was to pay like the principal.

But then after that, my main job was really just get after it cuz I knew that was the biggest way. >> I love this. This right here is a a gleaming example of when it makes sense and how to do the I'mma live at home for a little while to get this debt paid off. Excellent.

Well done. Wow. So, what was the hardest part? I mean, obviously, you're seeing your money go out the door and you're living at mom's house.

What else was hard?

>> Saying no to a lot of things I wanted to do that in the moment I was like, I'm looking at the future. I'm looking to see what I can accomplish later because right now it does stink. But in the future, I know it's going to be so worth it and it has been. >> So, the keeping understanding the logical part, yeah, you know what I have to I got to s but keeping the promise to yourself is the hardest part.

>> Absolutely. >> Wow. So, here's my thing. I have uh you know I'm on social media. I hear people talking all the time and when you mention paying off student loans, the automatic mindset is that's impossible.

I want you to talk cuz how old are you?

>> 30. >> 30. I want you to talk to the 27year-old, the 30-year-old who just finished grad school, just finished undergrad and is like, "Yeah, I'm just going to kick the can down the road forever. I haven't even calculated the interest. >> They just need to do it. It's it's a mindset. It's a mentality. And it really does spread into every aspect of life.

Your work, um the way you decide to go about having friends, like those intentional relationships and those intentional things that you choose to do in life, they carry on. So that's why this was so important to me because I knew that if I can be dedicated as I have been in the gym or in my nutrition or whatever aspect that might be, it carries out into being just a better person and you being able to portray that in your personality and whatever encounters you have. >> Oh, you you have figured out you have unlocked something so important.

You have figured out that discipline begets discipline and so >> absolutely. Yes.

Different seasons of life definitely led me that way as I was growing up being an athlete and then I got to school, stopped doing that for a little bit, but then I found that purpose and once you find that purpose and you know what you're looking for and what you want to be, there's no stopping you.

>> That's right. >> At what point after you're paying 5,000 a month, does this go from being I can't believe I'm doing this to look at what I'm doing. Did was there an emotional shift if you understand what I'm asking?

>> Oh yeah. Uh it's really like a countdown cuz I started with 90,000. So it was like I start at 9 and then we get to 8 7 6 all the way down and once we get to that final zero and you're just on the bare minimum thousands. It's like it's coming. It's going. >> I love I love everything about this.

Yeah. >> I I do. >> So 30 years of age. Okay. And now you're on the other side of this. >> Yeah. >> How has it changed your perspective looking forward because you're a young man. >> Yeah. Uh, it's a great feeling because I

bought my Beyonce's ring, paid if it were in cash. >> Oh, we see it over there. Okay, hold it up there so we can get There we go. Oh, >> I need some sunglasses.

[laughter] >> And then on top of that, it's just like I have no fear. Like, Ken, thank you so much for just what you do because because of you, I was able to leave a toxic work environment and just feel proud of being able to work and do what I do and have passion behind it.

>> I love it. >> She said with Dave weird is being independent in a culture that teaches you to be dependent. And that hit me because it it really does. And when you're debtree, independent knowing that, hey, I need a day off tomorrow and I can take that there's no greater feeling and no greater power knowing that you did that to yourself and you can do that. >> Yeah. Autonomy. I am I'm overwhelmed. uh

you've done such a fantastic job and you dropped a you dropped a major key. I don't know if people were listening cuz you know people are going to listen to this and be inspired by what you're saying. There is uh a great motivation tactic that you shared which is when you have an even like a a a nice countable number like 5,000 or 10,000, right? It

makes it easier to see that number go down in a pattern that is motivating to us. So little major key there. I'm proud of you. What happens next?

>> Life. Um, I started my own business for

occupational therapy. I'm a mobile practice. So, just growing out being able to give people the treatments that they desperately need and not having to rely on insurance or anything along those lines because I want to give people the opportunity to live their life and be able to regain all functions. >> All right, hold on. Let's not that if I heard you. >> So, are you doing a like old school like

cash for your business? No insurance filing at all? >> That's the goal. But, you know, there's stipulations and everything, but that's my goal. >> Yeah. And and is that you're basically, okay, this gets you this, and you kind of lay it out like a menu so people know >> I got to say I I just I don't want to go on a rabbit trail, but this to me is the future of personal medicine. >> 100%. I think it should be, but I

digress. It's But I'm proud of you starting your own business. Okay. So, obviously your lovely fiance is here.

Who else alongside her walked through this with you and were your biggest fans? Honestly, it was a lot of self. It was a journey by myself for the most part. There's not a lot of people that really helped me, but there's a lot of wisdom that was passed on from because when I first got out, it was I always asked like, "What did you guys follow?

How do I do this?" And it was always the older generation that helped me and said, "Hey, listen to this, listen to this guy." And it just helped.

>> It helped tremendous. >> Moral of the story, hang around older people. >> I was just thinking the same thing. [laughter] It's good to be old. >> That's awesome. All right, this is fun.

Are you ready? >> Yeah. >> Okay, here we go. Well, we got Alvaro from Dallas, Texas. He paid off 90,000 plus in 20 months, making from 73,000

all the way up to 92,000 and all those other jobs. Alvaro, it's your moment.

Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> Thank you, Lord. I'm debtree.

>> There it is. >> You didn't even need a countdown. >> No countdown. Just a [applause] thank you, Lord, which I prefer. Kind of like that. >> Put his own stamp on it.

>> I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's one of the goats of debtree screams.

[applause] >> That's That's a goat. That's a goat right there. >> That's a fun game for our hardcore Ramsay fans. Like, do they have their top five debtree screams?

>> You're saying it's in the top five.

>> Yes, because a he's young.

>> Okay. >> Uh two, he he figured out uh the the

whole live at home thing and did it flawlessly. >> Uh number two, he started a business of

his own. Number three, he understood a major principle which is it's not just about paying off the debt. It's about when you have discipline and when you have freedom in one area of your life and you've mastered it, you have to let it go into the other areas. You don't just get thin and get your body right.

Now you do that in your spiritual life and now you do it in your marriage and now you do it with your money. He understands that. You can't stop Alvaro.

I'm telling you that right now. >> I got to tell you, pal, you got my co-host fired up. She can run through a wall right now. I better go open the door. We're going to go out and see him and celebrate with him.

[music]

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[music] Let's see if I can finish the show without unplugging myself. Our

[music]

scripture of the day comes from Psalm 20:4. Let God grant what is in your heart and fulfill all your plans.

[music] Our quote today from John Maxwell. The reality is that you will never get much done unless you go ahead and do it before you are ready.

>> All righty then. >> There's a word. >> It is. >> All right. Evan, we got him back hopefully in Rono. Evan, do we have you

>> here? >> I'm here. Thank you guys for taking me my call again. >> Hey, [laughter] it's okay. We were worried about you, man. We didn't know what happened. So, we're glad to have you back. >> My wife My wife pulled in the driveway and and the Bluetooth picked up in her car. >> Oh, no. Classic, >> dude. That happens to me all the time.

Yeah, I It's really irritating. All right. Uh what's going on?

>> So, we are in FPU um week number five.

So, we just started, you know, going through the uh, you know, um, but we are on baby step two and I have a question

about possibly do we need to go back to baby step one and re-evaluate it because, um, as a backstory, we have two

small businesses that we run. Um, I do a cabinet business and she does horseback riding lessons. We have, um, 15 acres and 11 horses. and um our income last

year after after all expenses was 130.

And we have $1,000 set aside, but my

question is given that something could

come up with a horse that would be, you know, possibly $10,000 if a for a vet

bill, what [snorts] what should we hold

in reserve for that for for emergencies

like that in this situation? Well, there's first you need to separate it from your personal monies. So, if these are two separate businesses, there's got to be um a line item in her business budget that when she brings her revenues in, some of her expenses, some of some

of her money goes toward creating uh

retained earnings or like a stockpile of cash, basically an emergency fund for her business. So that's going to be something she needs to build in that's reasonable to the work that she does and that's something that you need to build into yours as well. And that happens before you guys take your payrolls.

>> Does that make sense? So it's not going to be part of your normal every dollar budget. That's going to be part of her business building over here to the side.

>> Okay. Um so so personally we should just

keep keep it at a thousand personally and then >> and [snorts] then on the business side like realistically you know

how how much should following these principles because obviously you know we're my business is about 18 months old and hers is like three or four years old. So she's in the she uh my my

portion of it was 85 last year and she was at 49. Um, and so as far as like

operating under the under Ramsey principles, how much should we hold in reserve for our businesses? And because, you know, we're paying ourselves the profits and so

>> I understand what you're saying in reserve on those business. >> I would probably say somewhere around 3 to 6 months of operating expenses for you both is what I'd be looking to do.

Now, for her, she's going to have to figure out what that is. I'm not sure that she has an accurate picture based on the fact that there's no earn like there's nothing held aside. I don't think you guys have an accurate picture of what uh salary you can actually pull

because that's a that's a significant amount of money that needs to be budgeted for every single month out of her budget. Does that make sense?

>> It does. And we do have separate like the the every every you know we have a personal and then two business accounts.

And her her gross last year you know just because the overhead on horses is a lot. So her gross was 226 >> and her net was was 49.

>> Um my gross was Yeah. My gross was was

210 and my um net was 84.

>> Yeah. Um I mean I I think just the nature of the business that she does cuz it's live animals and it's horses specifically. I mean, I think that's always going to be the case that her spend is going to be higher. But my point is, I think this can continue to go, but the biggest takeaway for you is to go, okay, the the money for her

business overhead is not coming out of our personal budget. It's coming out of her the P&L for her business. Does that make sense? >> It does. And so I guess do we put step,

you know, because we have a plan that right now our plan to pay off the debt is going to take 27 months.

>> Okay. Um, and so $70,000 in debt in 27

months. Um, >> what this means is, yeah, that's going to take longer. >> If you want to get these businesses in a stable position, it means your personal debt's going to take longer, which means you're probably going to have to do some things on the side to bring in extra money to account for that, >> right? Okay.

>> I mean, Ken, am I am I missing anything?

>> I agree. Your advice has been great. I I will only add this mental thing. You you were touching on it just here. Jay gave you great advice.

It's super important that you don't let the intensity, and I love that you're in week five of FPU, right? So, you're in it. It's like training camp, you know, and you're just walking through it and you're fired up. Don't let that intensity um put you in a situation where you don't shore up your businesses. You're prime that is your income.

>> And and Jade really was all over that.

And I would just say make sure you go I got to make sure that I've got those retained earnings set up in my businesses plural >> and if that makes my debt pay off a little longer >> it's okay >> it's okay but then I'm going to make up for it as Jade is saying so the mindset is let's not hurry at the expense of

like gazelle intensity does not mean gazelle foolishness >> good >> right >> and I think that thank thank you I'm getting I'm this is very exciting it's rare that I get is. So I I that would be my word for you is I love the intensity, but let's shore up everything else

>> and and and and then we we deal with it as it comes as if as far as the payoff date. Okay.

>> So the fact you guys got these businesses, you want to just keep those things stable >> because if you don't and something happens, >> now you're up a creek. >> Now you're in big trouble. Yeah.

>> And we're also blowing up our timeline.

So, it's not about the timeline, it's about how we finish across the line.

>> So, appreciate the call. You're a sharp young man. You guys seem like you're doing great. We'll get Kelsey in real quick. Kelsey, how can we help?

>> Hello. I like that Gazelle quote. I wish I could write it down, but I'm going to remember that. >> I'll tell you it again. Oh, you you already got it. Okay, gotcha. Very good.

All right, go ahead. We got about two and a half minutes. We'd love to help you. What's the question?

>> Okay. Um, in regards to prenuptual agreements, I've been listening to you all for less than a year, and I know that you all don't recommend one unless you have big financial disparity, which can protect me or us from cousin

Eddie's. My boyfriend and I plan to get married. It'll be our second marriage.

But I wanted to see what your thoughts are on prenups. There is no big

financial disparity between us, but we have cousin Eddies.

>> What do you mean? Be more specific. What are these cousins or who are I mean, what are we talking about?

>> Like, so I'm I guess I imagine cousin Eddies as being um the the the ones who

are looking for money in from family members. And >> yes, >> and this is not a metaphor. You're telling me you've identified some family members on his side that you think will come asking for money?

>> Yes. And and they they have before.

>> Will he agree with them? Will your spouse agree with the cousin Eddie?

>> No. >> Okay. >> Well, you don't need a prenup for that. >> Yeah. >> You need boundaries. >> That's just you and your husband having the Yes, Ken. You and your husband saying we're not going to loan money to these people.

>> Okay. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> that works. >> Yeah, but I mean >> Oh, yeah. No, he would be on top. He'd be all for that. So >> Oh, he Okay. Yeah. Perfect.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh boy, that is interesting. And good on you, by the way, of identifying that and bringing it up to him. And so, yeah, complete same page. If we're on the same page that no matter who it is, because we took a call earlier today, >> a young man gets a massive job.

>> Yes. >> $285,000 salary. Tony >> tells his mom and dad >> as one would do and they immediately [laughter] asked him to help pay off debt, pay for his sister's college. So, you know, Jade and Jade, before we took the call, Jade touched on this. He was like, I wouldn't be telling family about all these income things. So, u it's very interesting.

We've seen this today. I love that you guys have figured this out. But yeah, uh make sure the husband is absolutely in lock step and we don't share any financial information with any of these folks. So, I feel like there's a southern phrase for that. That opportunistic. You always have a southern phrase like a like a vulture on a on a jack rabbit. I [laughter] don't know. Something silly.

>> I love that you gave that a shot. No one in the history of radio or [laughter] podcasting or YouTube has ever said that. >> Coined that phrase. >> So, I think you've done something great, Kelsey. Thank you so much. I think you've got a lot of wisdom. No prenup here. Uh just great communication and a

fabulous word to learn.

Know and that will work. Hey, remember everybody, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 70. Focus On What You Can Control And Start Crushing Debt | March 16, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:40:59 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken, common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Kamel. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. We get it started off right now with Mary in Dallas, Texas. Mary, how can we [music] help?

Hey, thank you for having me. Um so, I I've been stuck in kind of like a situation where I really I'm newly married and um I don't believe in debt. And I really love what you guys preach. I'm trying to get my husband on board. He has when we got married, he has like over 35, 40K in

debt. And that's okay. So, I was trying

to encourage him to get out of debt.

Use my salary to use my salary to pay

his debt, but he currently lost his job in last year. And he has no motivation in trying to find a new job. So, I'm always trying to like my money all I do is just pay bills, mortgage, and by the time I'm done paying, there's nothing left. So, it just feels like I'm never getting ahead.

Wow. So sorry, Mary. I mean, I can think of one way to stay motivated. Maybe providing for your new wife. Is that not on his radar?

Providing for his new wife? You.

You said you just got married to this guy. He doesn't have a job. You're struggling to pay bills and you say he has no motivation to work.

Yeah, he lost his job. So, his excuse is like, "Oh, I can't he >> fired? What happened? Is he Is he in a depressive state because of this?

Yeah, he got fired and he's he's kind of like really much he's kind of really confident that I'll I'll get a new job and he only applied like one job in a month and it's been 6 months now and

really like no motivation at all.

If he he gets out of his 401k to pay some of the bills like to pay some of his debt. He took a withdrawal from his 401k?

Mhm. To pay bills? And cover his debt payments? Yes, cuz my my salary can't pay all his debt. Oh my goodness.

>> only cover my salary can only cover mortgage and the house bills, not his debt. Well, the challenge is is there's there's really no answer. We can't give you a step one, step two, step three on this.

I really can't.

Um this has to be a very very serious

um marriage conversation. Have you confronted him about this to say, "Hey, I I don't think this is sustainable. We can't keep doing this. My My salary is not enough to take care of all of this.

We're falling behind. I feel like you're not uh applying for enough jobs." What's his response? I haven't. He's from encouraged him to like to even just take any stupid job like to just pay bills, but his pride will not let him to take anything. He's just like until I get something that is comfortable for me. Yeah, but I do Okay, I Okay, I appreciate that.

Uh and you've identified that it is pride. I assume that he's calling it pride as well?

No, he doesn't know where like he he still does he he still thinks he's always I don't know >> Have you shared how uncomfortable and how afraid you are?

Yeah, and he sees me cry when it comes

to bills, when it comes to his dad.

>> I'm sorry. What does he do when he sees you cry? He just says, "I'm sorry." I'm sorry and that's it.

Yikes. You know, again, I uh >> [sighs] >> I I I There's nothing that we can say here. I mean, this is a you have to tell him that you If you can't help us,

then is there an us?

You know, I mean, it's that serious.

This This guy is just kind of waving

uh at every day, kind of going, "Well, I'll just do this and hope it works out." And there's just no urgency and it puts you in a very tough position. And um I don't I don't have some magical answer. George, I don't know what your thoughts are here. This is very, very frustrating for you. >> Yeah. I Well, I I do think you need to make it more clear how serious this is.

And it sounds like he's disassociating, is what we call it. When he's just going, "Well, I'm just kind of sort of numb out because I don't have the willpower to do anything about it."

Is that what's happening here? Because you got married to this guy because you wanted the companionship, because life is better doing it with someone else, right? >> Yeah, I even I see I see some jobs and send him send them his way. Like, everybody's trying to give him leads about jobs, but it's just the motivation for him. >> What was he doing for work? And what was he making?

He was making 130. He was an engineer.

Engineer making 130, and he's been applying for engineering jobs or he applied for one?

He's applied for engineering jobs.

And why did he get fired?

Uh they said he threatened his boss.

He threatened his boss?

Mhm. Okay. So, how long have you been married to this guy?

2 years.

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to get his attention and go, "We We got to talk about our marriage.

I've already brought up all of money stuff to you, and you're not doing anything about it. And you're [snorts] not in a good place. You were in a bad place. You're in a bad place if you threaten your boss.

Can we agree you're in a bad place?

Yeah, he still doesn't believe he still doesn't agree that he still thinks it was unfair that he was let go. Well, there's a lack of ownership all over the place with this guy. Is that the case throughout your marriage? >> Yeah.

It's never his fault. It's always someone else's fault. You got to take care of you right now. I I think I think this is a legit conversation about separation to get his to get his attention.

Uh but I would Yeah. I would give that a try and get a therapist in the room with you, too. You got to try that. But I I I

wouldn't keep letting this guy just put all the pressure on you and show no desire at all to help out. Uh

so, you know, at this point, how can you make more money?

And uh you be in control of the finances so this guy can't wreck you anymore.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't be concerned about his debt. Right now, it's about covering the four walls and protecting yourself. So, the first thing you cover is going to be your mortgage. You guys own a home or you rent? Yeah.

We own a home. Okay. So, we're going to cover the mortgage. We're going to put food on the table. We're going to keep the utilities on, cover all of those bills, and cover your transportation needs. Outside of that, >> Okay. if you can't pay for it, you can't pay for it. If you can't make the minimum debt payment, so be it. I'd rather have the credit card companies mad than your house being taken away from you.

Okay. So, you come first.

Don't cover his bills. We're not covering anything for his lifestyle. In fact, you may want if this isn't going well and counseling is not an option for him, you may want to create your own separate accounts so that he doesn't start to drain it in his depressive state. We've never joined accounts.

Okay. So, it's separate. Your money goes to your account and you're paying all of the bills from that one account.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a full picture of his finances? Do you actually know how much debt he has?

It's around 45K. And what kind of debt

is that?

>> Um school loans. He has a personal loan and his car. And none of that is in your name? None of it None of it is in my name.

>> Great. Well, there's the good news.

So, that's the best news of this entire call is that he can't drag you down. Um, you

can take care of the mortgage. I think you need to be thinking about how do I make more income? How do I create, you know, uh, an emergency fund?

Uh, how do I create more margin? Uh, so

that his destructive behavior, and what he's doing, by the way, is destructive.

He's not doing much, but it's destructive. And so, you got to take care of yourself right now. And I'm hoping We're hoping we can get you guys into some therapy and that you guys figure this thing out. But, you got to protect yourself right [music] now, unfortunately. We're so very sorry to hear that you're going through this.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it. But, if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family. So, don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Kayla in Miami, Florida. Kayla, how can we help?

Hi, how are you? Um so, right now I'm at a crossroads. Um my father just told us that he doesn't have enough money for retirement. He's been retired for several years. Um he's been retired for about 8 years,

and um basically he's been living off like an annuity that he thought would have covered his mortgage. He still has a mortgage, about $300,000 left on it. And

right now, my family and I are deciding how we're going to approach this. Do we bail him out, essentially, pay off his mortgage? Um or you know, do we have him sell his house move to a a cheaper area cost of living

area. So Keep in mind, you know, that $300,000 is what my family and I would use for our retirement once we're at that age. So

Why? Kind of What do you mean? The $300,000 is what

you would use for retirement? No, like investing that for our future retirement, you know. Like as an inheritance?

No, no, no, like so we have we my father

owes like $300,000 on his mortgage. So we were thinking that like That's a debt. >> essentially like Yeah, exactly. Help out dad and basically give him like 20 grand every year to pay off his mortgage cuz I

don't have $300,000 laying around. Mhm.

>> And so that was our thought, but at the same time that's money that we otherwise

would be using to investing. Yeah, you

guys are going to be in the same spot. Your kids are going to be funding your mortgage. It'll be a a wonderful generational gift.

Yes. >> So this is a definitely a bad plan to bail dad out after he did some real poor planning. Now, I'm not saying we need to be cruel. We don't want him on the street, but I also don't want you artificially propping up his life for the next 20 years.

Yes. >> How old is he?

He is 71 and on top of that his mother, my grand

mother, lives with him and she had no

retirement at at all and doesn't qualify

for like any anything because she immigrated to the country like a couple years ago. So it's kind of like a series of bad decisions. I'm fortunate. My husband and I do extremely well and it

wouldn't be my children's burden.

[clears throat] That will be for sure cuz they're pretty much already taken care of um for their life for their major events in their life. But, I just find like I'm having a moral dilemma with, you know, that's money I otherwise would have lost my children.

So, I don't know what to do. Have him sell the house.

What's it worth?

The house is worth like 700. So, that was my thought to sell the house, but then he kind of says, "Well, then I'm going to go move somewhere really far away." And then And then I kind of struggle with like, "Well, then you're leaving your grandkids, you know." >> Why does he have to move super far away?

I feel like South Florida is pretty expensive, cuz even if you go to like downsize into like a condo or a townhouse, like those HOA fees are still pretty high. So, you'd have to move like a lot further.

Okay, so what would a rental cost that's reasonable that's somewhat in the vicinity?

Um probably like 2,000 for like a one-bedroom, like no-frills. Okay. More or less. So, that's 24 grand a year.

Mhm. And if he has 400 grand in equity,

and he invests that money, it could spit off 20, 30, 40, 50 grand a year.

Mhm. So, that would essentially cover his rent.

Okay. >> I'm trying to figure out a way for him to be independent and not relying on you guys forever. Cuz how old is is your grandma?

She's 93, but they seem to live very long in my family. >> are good. The financial decisions are bad. Remind me, how old is your dad?

My dad is 71. Yeah. I you know, here

George is giving you great advice on the money stuff. Uh he can weigh in further.

I'm just listening to this, and I'm listening to a very good daughter. But, I'm also listening to a very good daughter who has worked up in her mind this burden that you have to carry. And once we solve the one burden, then you immediately gave us another burden. So, we said, "Well, then sell the house." That was one of your options. It's great. Gets him Gets him in better shape. Uh and you can He can go somewhere else, pay cash. And your immediate was, "Well, he's going to have to move too far away.

And that's too far away from my kids.

And I feel like we're creating problems that aren't really problems.

Mhm. Feels like you've got too much of this uh kind of stuck cuz it's not a moral you kept mentioning the moral. There's nothing immoral uh about the situation at all. So, I'm just trying to maybe I'm trying to free you uh by giving you some feedback here. I'm for you. You're a great great lady, great daughter, phenomenal. Your heart's in the right place. I think your head's in the wrong place.

Mhm. Yeah, exactly. And then I feel bad about, you know, to my own family, my own husband who works very hard. I work very hard, you know.

Well, that's where your head should be.

Yeah, your responsibility is to your own immediate family first. Yeah, and I I that's the part I agree with you on that. You should be making good decisions for you and your kids.

Dad's not your responsibility.

Yeah, and I and and he's not putting it on me, but at the same time I feel like he sacrificed so much to put us through college to then get us to the point like where we're making so well money only because of him, not my husband, just like for me and my other sibling. So, like I think that's where that dilemma comes in like Yeah, this is false guilt.

Yeah, I guess so. >> You can honor him without bankrolling him. Mhm. Give him some good advice.

He could downsize and buy something for 400 grand in cash further out.

True? >> Mhm. It's not going to be as nice, not going to be as fancy, which would which would solve the problem you're trying to help solve, correct?

Yes. Yes. And what is his foreseeable income for the next 20 years? How much is this annuity spitting off and for how long? Well, the annuity ends in like a year. So, he was supposed to use that annuity to pay off the mortgage, and he never did. Instead, he

like just enjoyed I think it was just like a lifestyle creep. Like he was just enjoying his retirement. And not in like an extravagant way cuz that's not how he is. But like But he was irresponsible once again >> with this annuity. And then what's going to happen if you guys are now funding his lifestyle and he gets comfortable?

>> no social security coming in?

He does. So that's what he would rely on and that's like going to be like that's about like 3,700 a month. Okay, so that's our number. How do we live off of 3,700 a month? And if you've got no house payment, he can do that. And and by the way, I want to remind you what you just told us when this guilt starts to creep in. Oh, my dad sacrificed for us. Yeah, he did. Not taking any of that away from him.

But he also did not use that annuity how he's supposed to. You just said it. So you got to have you can't have both of those thoughts in your head at the same time. So you got to choose the one that is the most accurate. And the most accurate is he squandered his money putting himself

in this situation. Not my dad sacrificed so much for us and we aren't taking care of him. That's a that's a false narrative and that shouldn't be in your head anymore. When it pops up, you need to immediately replace it with my dad is a grown man and he was not responsible with his money. And gosh, I feel so sorry for him that he has to sell his house so that he can stabilize in his in

his final season of life, but that's what he's got to do and that's what I'm going to recommend he do that. And then I'm going to wash my hands of it. That that may sound heartless but it's not. That's what protects you

from overthinking on all this stuff and

emotionally getting sucked into something that you're not supposed to be involved in. Now just out of like out if you had the money to pay it off, would you pay it off and then look at it as like a a way like whenever he passes, you'll sell the house and almost like it's an alternative investment. I would not try to justify this as anything other than I am I'm gifting my dad something that he simply cannot pay because I love him and it's a small part of our financial world and it's not going to set us back.

What? I'm sorry. At what point? >> have $300,000 sitting around, right?

That's what you said earlier.

Not like a hundred. I mean, they're an asset, but not like >> not going to sell off our retirement to cover dad's mortgage. So, if I'm in your shoes, what I'm going to do is love him in the way of saying, "Hey Dad, you're going to need to downsize. We can't afford this.

You can't afford this. We're going to help you create a budget for this 3,700 to make sure that it covers all of your bills and you can enjoy some life, but it's going to look different. This is your boundaries." Versus, "Hey Dad, he's 93 and now it's he wants 2,800 bucks a month from each of the siblings to cover his lifestyle." I would not go down that path.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> All right, let's go to Manchester, New Hampshire, where Bonnie joins us. Bonnie, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for answering my call.

It's my birthday, so this is the best >> Happy birthday, Bonnie. How old are you today? >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm 30. 30? Oh, that's a big big one. Do you feel like an adult now?

Yes. I especially feel old. No, no, no,

not old. My gosh, careful. Careful, you're going to offend people that are seasoned like I am.

Uh but congratulations.

>> Oh, okay, got you. Well, now you are You are entering a decade where at some point you will just wake up one morning feeling like you had a great night's sleep, and as you begin to move, you feel as though someone was punching you the entire night. And I can't explain that, but that's the reality. >> science can't explain science can't explain. >> So, I already I totally understand that already. All right. >> we're there for you. Okay, how can we help you today?

All right. So I am an occupational therapist and my husband is an engineer

and right now we're in about $113,000

debt and 96,000 of that is student loans

and I have about 13,000 in personal loans and that comes from a truck that we had paid off and sold and then um we

redid our basement cuz our house flooded out. So um but my question today is how do I pay off my top student loan um when the interest is compounding almost every week. I log into my account and my my loan has been about $79,000 for years now and I'm at my wit's end just trying to pay that one off cuz it's the largest and I do want you to know that I am doing the debt snowball with all of my other debt besides that 79,000

but I I get so discouraged. How do you do both at once? You're either attacking the smallest one or you're attacking the one with the most interest.

So I have them listed out um in order

from from smallest to greatest and I'm

I'm definitely throwing most of my um extra money at the smallest one but I am

throwing more at um the highest school loan as well. So um

my minimum in um payment was $314 just

to cover the interest for the highest loan and I decided to throw a couple hundred more dollars towards that one just so I could get ahead and it's it's just still growing. So I don't know um I just don't know how to go about it anymore.

>> So I know this sounds crazy but the $79,000 is made up of about 19 small school

loans. It's a federal loan, so they're all between 4 to 6%.

Okay. So, none of that is is crushing. I know it feels like a lot and there's a big balance there, but it's actually great that they're split up cuz that means you're going to see progress faster than if you were attacking this as one giant loan.

Mhm. So, what is the smallest balance?

So, it's really confusing I because >> It's not. Just go down to the bottom of the list and tell me the smallest balance.

So, when I pull up that on my computer,

um it doesn't have it listed smallest to greatest. Um Sort by Overall, I know

this is such a confusing You should be using every dollar, Bonnie. I'll give you every dollar. It'll sort it for you.

I think the spreadsheet is where this one got out of whack.

I actually have it and I stick to it every month, but I'm just I'm trying to organize it in my brain to make it sound less confusing. So, my medical >> brain is the worst place to organize anything. It's a junk drawer up there.

All right, we've Could you two move forward, please? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. What is the smallest balance? Let's just speak philosophically at this point since we can't figure it out. If a third grader looked at your spreadsheet, they would find the smallest number to be what?

It's about 800.

>> Boom. Okay. Oh, there we go. What are you guys bringing in per month?

9,500.

Great. Why is this loan not paid off yesterday?

So, because that's that's only a snapshot of all of my debt. Like it's

only a little portion. So, my I'm just going to read off what my spreadsheet says here, so it'll be less confusing.

So, my medical debt is 3,390

dollars. My basement I owe 5,000. My

next school loan is 6,000. My husband's

truck that we sold and we were negative underwater with that and we owe 7,000 on

that. My next school loan is 11,000 and

then the big one that I'm specifically talking about right now is 79,000.

But that 79,000 you said is split up.

It is. >> So it's not really 79,000.

It's $800, $2,000, $3,000, so on and so

forth. Right. Right. So that's how we're actually looking at this. Don't look at it as as a 79 79,000 loan. Split

everything up. 19 of those in the spreadsheet, looking at the smallest balance, that's where your focus goes.

So out of the 9,500, how much extra do you have each month to throw at the smallest debt if you stop this avalanche deal? Um probably two grand. Boom. Do you see what just happened there? You actually cleared a debt. So I guess that's why I called in cuz I've been so confused. So total I have like 25 loans instead of 1 2 3 4 5 6.

Yes, 25 loans and we're just going to work our way down the list.

That's it. >> Okay. And if you guys you're living off of 7,500 uh that includes your minimum payments, right? Minimum payments plus all of your expenses are 7,500 and you have 2,000 left to throw on top of that smallest debt.

So now the game is how do we get more of that margin? How can we make more? How do we spend less? Are you guys doing any investing whatsoever right now?

No, we put that on pause. No match whatsoever. No, I'm trying to look for another job at night when my kids are asleep that I could do from home, which was something else I was going to ask you and what >> No, that's awesome. I love that you have that level of intensity about this.

Do you guys have anything in savings?

We do. Yep. Anything above that?

>> Just 1,000. Just a thousand.

>> No. Okay, great. So you're you're so close to doing this plan full on. We just need to switch our our brain around this debt avalanche thing. I think that's what's screwing you up.

Okay. >> It's causing you to to stall out cuz you're trying to do three things at once. Just try it my way for 1 month, Bonnie, and see if you feel better. Cuz a lot of getting out of debt is emotion.

It's behavior. It's the psychology of it. It's not the spreadsheet that's the the enemy here. It's the person in the mirror and we can solve that with this amazing income.

They're bringing in 10 grand a month. I'm going I think there's some expenses we can cut out of that 7,500. >> your homework assignment, Bonnie. Where else can we cut?

Uh can we sell some stuff? You know, between cutting and selling, can we make another $5,000 dent? It's a good question. Maybe you can't.

Maybe it's only 2,000. But that's the mindset where there's a will, there's a way that still works. Let's go to Gina in Salt Lake City.

Hi. Hi, Jen.

Hi, George. Hi, Jen. Hi, how are you?

How can we help?

I have a question that kind of centers around how to prioritize

uh my husband and I's finances as we near retirement. >> Okay. Hit us with the question.

Um so we are

about 6 years out from retirement

and right now we're both doing 401K with our employer.

We have um a mortgage and I think that we have enough in our 3 to 6 months. Okay. And I'm I'm just wondering the excess that we have each month, we bring in

uh roughly 6,000 take home

and our expenses are roughly 4,000.

Great. That's after investing.

Uh yes. Great. So, you got 2K left over and you're wondering what to do with it.

And yeah, [clears throat] cuz What's your What's left on the mortgage?

What's the balance? What's left on the mortgage balance?

It's 91,000. Love it. Okay, are you investing 15% of your household income?

Um so I I have a 401k that I'm putting 11% in

and then my employer matches four. Okay, you should be investing 15% and then your employer matches on top of that. So the match is gravy on top and baby step four. So this is what I would do in your shoes.

Make sure that you guys are dialed up to 15% of your gross household income going into these tax advantage retirement accounts. >> [music] >> Anything on top of that, I would be throwing at that mortgage. Let's get this thing knocked out before you enter retirement, then we can really maxing [music] out things as we head to the finish line.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

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>> [music] >> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by YRefi. If your private student loans are in default, it's a mess, but YRefi can help clean it up.

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Today's question comes from Liam in Washington. He says, "I I'd appreciate your perspective on a recent news story. When actor James Van Der Beek passed away, a GoFundMe was created for his family.

Reports indicate the goal has increased multiple times and now exceeds $2 million despite him reportedly owning a

multi-million dollar home and significant property. Many people are pointing to this as evidence that medical expenses can financially devastate even high earners. If someone with that level of income and assets needed financial help, what hope is there for the average American? What concrete steps should families take to ensure their loved ones are not left relying on public donations after a death?" Woo. There's a lot in there, One Can. I I did see this floating around the internet.

I've not studied it, but I did see that there was this GoFundMe and uh it's always interesting to me when the number keeps increasing. You know, I'm not I try not to be skeptical, but I go see you needed uh 20 grand and now you go well, actually 50 grand would be nice.

Actually, 100 grand would be even better. So, I don't know. I'm not here to speculate. I've seen there was speculation.

People are wondering what's going on here and I don't know the state of James Van Der Beek's estate when he passed if he had a bunch of debt. A lot of rich people out there who can pass away and have a bunch of debt to their name. >> Yeah. That's not unheard of.

>> Yeah, we simply don't know. And so instead of focusing on which report on social media is correct cuz you that'll drive you nuts. I think that the final the final question in that um email is the one we addressed, you know, and there you're basically going uh how do we prepare for something like this? And in this situation, George, the question is if the medical debt was in his name and he dies, what happens to the medical debt?

>> It's gone. They're not coming after your family for that.

that's the fundamental answer. Right? Uh

but that only feeds into the conspiracy theory even more, which we're not going to take on. Yeah. Now, in a in terms of >> So, why would they even need it? Yeah, my guess is this is the best case scenario. This they didn't want to have to sell off any assets of the estate in order to cover any debts that were owed.

And so, they're probably raising these funds to try to cover those separately so that the estate remained untouched.

>> Right. And so, so that goes back to your to your answer though. It doesn't just wipe away. If there's money in the estate to cover the medical debt, then they will they can go after it. Yeah. And so, therein lies the issue. So, uh you know,

it's it's a tough situation. There's really no clear-cut answer as to what you do in that situation. >> I would not be freaked out if you're the average American. There's a lot of concrete steps you should take to ensure your loved ones are not left relying on public donations.

I I pray that there's never a GoFundMe GoFundMe after I pass, Ken. Yeah. hoping to do a good enough job my family. >> them a quick tip.

>> Number one, the thing you need today is term life insurance if anybody relies on your income. 10 to 12 times your annual income in a term level policy.

years makes sense for most people.

And here's the thing, if you follow the baby steps, you get a 15-year mortgage, guess what? After 15 or 20 years, you've got a paid for house and you've been investing 15% of your household income for decades. So, there's a nest egg and a paid for house. So, the goal here is become debt free as soon as possible so that your family has no headaches.

There's no debts to pay off. And so, they can just grieve your loss instead of also dealing with the stress of paying bills. And then the other thing you can do is create an estate plan.

For most people, a will is the simplest route to go. And Mama Bear Legal Forms is our partner on this. They're fantastic. You can knock it out online in minutes. And for some people, when they have this level of wealth, a trust makes sense. And I'm sure there was trusts involved with his estate. And that can help you sort of control the assets as well.

>> reminds me, our good friends at Zander Insurance, if you're somebody that has does not have term life insurance and the advice that George gave, you need to go talk to Zander. You won't believe how affordable truly inexpensive good term life insurance is. And our friends at Zander has been a partnering with us for for decades. They'll help you out.

And that's how you rest well at night to go, all right, if I rack up a bunch of expenses and I've got the right term life plan, I'm going to be in pretty good shape not to leave anybody in the lurch. So, >> about that. You've got a will in place so everybody knows what's going to happen if and when it happens.

you've got term life in place. Should you pass away within that term policy, there's there's going to be a payout of a million dollars to help cover your family's expenses for long term as you invest that. And then, stay debt free, have an emergency fund, build a nest egg for the future. Your heirs will inherit the IRA or the 401k helping them cover any bills that need to be paid.

But, that's the goal is become debt-free, stay debt-free. It's one of the best reasons to follow the Ramsey plan cuz it puts you and your family in a great position for legacy. Really good. Let's go to Dylan in Phoenix, Arizona.

Hey, what's going on, guys? How are you? Good. How are you today?

I'm doing good. Uh so, I just had a question for you. Um 22 years old. I

make 10 to 12,000 a month.

My monthly bills are about $3,000.

And I'm saving for a Can-Am side-by-side, but they can be 20 to $25,000.

So, my question is, uh would you recommend paying cash for something like that or financing it if I can afford the payment? I only have like $5,000 saved for the Can-Am. What are you going to use the side-by-side for?

Um I go to the like sand dunes a lot and all my buddies go do off-road riding like every weekend. So, it'd be used a lot. Okay. Are you newer to the show? Uh

What's that? >> Are you newer to the Ramsey show? Have you been listening for a little while?

Uh yeah, I'm I'm pretty new to the show here. Okay. So, one of the values on this show is not owing people any money.

And an even bigger value is not going into debt for a depreciating asset.

And so, the goal here, and you can do this very easily at 22 making 10 to 12K

a month, that is wild. I'm very happy for you. You're very successful for your age. So, here's the deal. If you can't stomach paying

$20,000 out of pocket, it's probably not the right time to purchase the side-by-side.

Cuz too many people can stomach a $400 payment cuz they don't want to part with their 20 grand or they don't have it as most Americans. And so, to feel the pain of purchase is actually the best thing in today's America cuz everything is frictionless. Every dealership will make sure the payment is low enough for you to feel good about leaving paying them a ridiculous amount of money with interest.

So, can I tell you what's smarter? Why don't you find a 5 grand used side-by-side off Facebook Marketplace?

Yeah, so that's kind of what I do. Like, I got my truck off there. So, the only debt I have is my the home um I just purchased. Cool. The only reason I was thinking of um financing the side-by-side would be I could not have the $20,000 out of pocket

and invest that and make money while I'm paying off the debt. >> that right now? Is that 20 grand invested?

Yeah, yeah. It's in a uh in a high-yield savings account. >> That's not That's not invested.

High-yield savings account. So, it's making 3% and you're going to take on this side-by-side loan for a brand new side-by-side at 20 grand at what? 6% interest?

Probably, yeah.

This is a bad trade, man.

Okay. >> There's guaranteed return of you paying of you staying out of debt. There's a volatile return in the stock market.

There's a volatile return even with these high-yield savings accounts, and you're paying income tax on the income you make from the savings account. How much cash do you have put away?

Um so, I have like 40,000 in savings, but that's not for Can-Am. That's just kind of for a rainy day or you know, just a savings account. And then, I only have 5,000 saved up for the Can-Am so far. Well, then here's the deal. I'm online right now, and I'm seeing a 2021 Yamaha Wolverine X2 R Spec 850. I like

just saying that. I didn't even know what I just said. The more numbers and letters, the more they can charge. Uh I'm I'm no side-by-side guy. As will come no surprise to anybody who knows me or knows what I look like, but uh that's $8,995.

You only got another month of saving up for that, and you pay cash for it.

And you're going to You're going to beat the snot You're going to beat the snot out of this thing, anyway, right?

Yeah. >> I guarantee you every every single side-by-side that is financed in America today is underwater.

They owe more than the thing is worth.

And then they call this show saying, "Hey man, I did a dumb thing and I was making 10 grand a month at the time and so I thought I could afford it, but I lost my job now and I this thing's going to get repoed." These are the calls we get, Dylan. And so let some other dingus prepay the appreciation and you get a deal. >> I'll bet I'll bet you all your buddies have financed these things and so you just think it's normal. And you want By the way, I could hear the tone in his voice when I said a 2021.

He's like, "Yeah, gross." Like this thing is going to be nasty and full of sand and all kinds of crap.

I don't know, Dylan. Buy used. This is too much of your world. You're too young to be making a decision this stupid and you're too successful [music] as well.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Camel is alongside.

We're excited that you're with us.

Fabulous studio audience out in the lobby today, George. Yeah, look at them.

They're all waving at us. So fantastic.

>> Venezuela. >> That's right. So this is a global show.

I got to call my mom and tell her You made it. Made it international.

>> it, Mom. I've done you proud. Uh 888-825-5225.

We're having fun today. We're going to help you out. We'll have some fun along the way if that's okay with you.

Christina is up in Salt Lake City.

Christina, how can we help?

Hello. Thanks so much for taking my call. I appreciate that. Sure. What's going on?

Yes, hi. Um so [clears throat] we have four kids um and my husband and I went

on our first cruise, just the two of us.

And so grandma watched the kids, really liked it. And we uh went ahead and

went and planned another cruise just to take the all of us together. So I got

two built part uh part-time jobs so because on one single income of his, the cruising money is just not quite there.

And we're just trying to figure out the best way to manage what I'm earning.

Well, then I make about between 10 to 12K a year.

Um and how to go on a cruise with that money. And the reason I'm asking um my husband wants to He's like, "What about 10% towards char- charity? What about 15% towards retirement of that? What about extra mortgage payments?" So he keeps kind of nickeling and diming me like 10% 10% this, 10% that. But I feel like we don't have much left for the cruising fund. So tell me if that's the right thing what he's telling me to do or should I just take a 100% and splurge on the vacation for the family.

That's my question. Well, based on the conversations you guys had, it sounds like he just doesn't want to go on this cruise.

He does. He does, but he wants like what about an extra mortgage payment because he's 47 and we own 100 >> He's a tightwad like me. He's just like ah, we should be doing other things with that money. Exactly. Exactly. >> it. I love it. I'll play husband and and Ken will play the role of Christina. Oh, great.

>> Perfect. >> But my question before we role-play is

uh why isn't why aren't you guys doing this with his income?

The charity giving and the other things that you rolled through. Why does it have to come out of the 10 to 12,000 that you're making?

Exactly. Exactly. That's what I said, but he's like well everything helps. Come on, we've only got 184,000 to go on the house. Like even if you put, you know, like I but I only work during the summer. >> time it's paid off, the kids won't even want to go on a cruise with you. That's the sad truth. Exactly. And the oldest is 15 going to 10th grade.

>> Oh, this is your last shot. You'll be lucky if the 15-year-old even wants to go. So, here's the deal. You guys are completely debt-free outside of the mortgage?

Correct. You have an emergency fund?

Uh we're getting there. He was unemployed for like a month and a half, so we did we we realized we didn't have enough, but we're really close to be finishing with that. So >> Okay, what's the price of the cruise for six of you including everything? Travel, cruise, any other expenses?

So, we're thinking between about 12 grand. I mean between airfare, the cruise fare, hotels, you know what I'm saying? Like Uber here and there. >> this the Ramsey cruise you're talking about?

No, just the Royal Caribbean. Oh, boo.

I was kidding. I I knew it wasn't, but I thought I'd get a little plug in there, you know? Because, you know, the cruise you're going on isn't going to have George and I on there. >> That's true. No pickleball with Ken.

>> No pickleball. Yeah, so >> Okay, but two grand a person that sounds reasonable. >> sound reasonable. >> here's what I would tell you. The budget will dictate the type of cruise you guys can go on. It's that simple. So if you got 12k, you're we're going to make sure that all of our expenses are within that 12k budget. You got 13k, well that budget just got up to a little bit. You got 10k, well now we're going to have to do some budget shopping. See if there's a different cruise that is still great.

Correct. So the thing you don't want to do is go, "Well, we only have 10k saved but the cruise we really want to do is 15. We'll just put five on a credit card." That's what most people do.

So don't be most people. >> bit, right? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So to your husband's point, as long as you guys are investing 15% of the household income, you're giving. We're not going to nickel and dime your your side hustles here.

If you are working solely to save up for the cruise, let it be for the cruise.

Perfect. See, he did not like it and I'm like, "My little contribution is just not going to make a difference." That's what I'm Well, you're working temporarily for a specific purpose.

Correct. >> This is not regular income for the household in perpetuity, forever.

You're only doing this to save up for the cruise, which I love that intensity.

That tells me you really want this thing cuz you're not robbing Peter to pay Paul. You're going, "I will create this cruise money out of thin air because I want this so bad." >> Yeah. Mhm. And the question is can he also is there room in your income from his income to also help contribute to this cruise savings fund?

I mean, not really being honest. That's why we haven't done that since the kids were little. We just go camping and all that stuff. So So what kind of tension

What kind of tension is around this conversation? I detect a little bit of tension. Like you're going to get off this call and be like, "I called Ken and George and they said it was okay and I don't know if I like that." Am I Am I right or am I wrong that there's a little tension on this?

It is. Wow, you guys can listen really well and can tell. Um he just has with a paycheck, he doesn't do any bills, I take care of that. So, really he just kind of like tell me when you have the money, then we can book. That's kind of how it is. So, we're even looking either either in the summer right now, which the prices are high. We're already been talking to the travel agent.

Or the next spring, because this fall I we did find one for 6,400, but he's like, "It's my hunting season." I'm like, "What am I going to tell my siblings?" I'm like, "Oh my goodness." It's what season?

Hunting season. You know, they want to do their hunting, so.

I'm like, "Okay." >> So, the siblings will be upset if he misses one hunting trip.

Apparently, correct.

>> a season is more than a week. You're going on a cruise for a week, I imagine.

Yes. Oh, let me tell you this, sorry.

Being the 10th grader and the 7th grader next year, do not want to miss school.

So, it has to be either a fall, spring, or the summer. I think we got to have a family meeting, is what I think. I think this >> Is that what it is? Okay.

>> so. Everybody's got to get on the big old giant calendar and go, "All right, spit shake, we're doing this week, everyone in agreement." >> Yeah, cuz I think we got levels of intensity is what I'm picking up on. I think you really want to go on the cruise with the family more than anybody else. I think husband is probably number two, but him saying, "Well, what if we do this?" I think George picked up on that.

I don't think he's 100% bought in on this. And then I think the kids are kind of like, So, let's have a family meeting and decide, you know, do we really want to do this?

you're the mom and you're going to throw some, you know, some influence around as moms and wives can do.

Hello, happy wife, happy life. I've been married 28 years. I pretty much do what Stacy wants us to do. It's okay. I mean, you just tell me how >> read the room and go, "Stacy wants us to do this, guys. We're doing this. We're going to have a smile on our face." I can see throwing out the, "Well, I'm going on a hunting trip." That's just a guy kind of testing the waters. Want to see if there's a It's true. Oh, yeah.

That's an excuse. >> 100% it's an excuse. So, let's have a family meeting and decide, do we all really want to do this? And and then see where it lies, and then you got to meet with hubs and go, "Hey, look, I'm working for this sole purpose.

You need to look at what I'm doing as vacation money. If we want to give charitably and give over here, then we got to do that in this pile." And if he disagrees, that's fine, but I just There's enough tension around this that I think it's showing me that we need to have a greater conversation about what we're doing with money, how and when. Yeah, there's really a Yeah, there's a gap in the values here. You value experiences with your family, and he's going, "Hey, there's other financial needs that we need to take care of." Well, let's make a plan for both.

I think there's a compromise here. We're going to have the mortgage paid off this year if we keep it this rate, and [music] we're going to go on this trip.

So, plan the schedule, plan the budget,

get everyone aligned, and then just go.

Don't overthink it. Life is short. That 15-year-old, the time is ticking.

They're going, "Ugh, cruise with my parents, lame." This is your last shot.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, Chris is up in Omaha, Nebraska. Chris, how can we help?

Hi, how are you? Good. How are you, Chris? I am doing well. My question for you guys is I'm curious how much I should have in my emergency fund with a family of four, a high commission job, and a wife that's an educator.

Love it. Great question. So, what is your household income on average?

Um about $250,000 a year. Woo! Fantastic

income. All right. So, the commission is coming through, my friend.

Yes. How long you been doing this job?

Nine years. Okay. >> And how old are the kids?

Uh two 7-year-olds, two 4-year-olds.

Fanta- Are they twins?

Yes. Two sets of twins?

That's amazing. Okay. Well, uh here's the deal with emergency funds. We say 3 to 6 months and there there's a a spectrum there for a reason. Some people, 3 months is plenty. For some people, 6 months makes more sense. And for a commission job where it is variable, I would definitely be leaning 6 months. Especially every kid you add is just one more thing that could come up. You're just adding more potential emergencies. So, what is 6 months uh to run your household of actual expenses?

25 to 30,000.

That's 6 months' worth?

A a total? Are you asking per month?

Yeah, per So, you're saying per month you're talking about 4 to 5 grand covers all of your bills?

Correct. Wow, you guys are living frugally for making 250. That's impressive. >> Yeah. Are you guys off the grid?

Mhm, no. Oh. Everyone healthy in the family?

Yes. Okay, wonderful. Then I would just lean towards 6 months. If 25 grand does it, that's great. And here's the truth of the matter, if you did have a bunch of emergencies all in 1 month that were 26 grand, 28 grand, you could cash flow it very easily with your income.

Correct?

Yes. Great. All right, there you go, Chris. Appreciate the call. We helped at least one person today. >> Well, I think so. Nick is joining us in New York City. Nick, how can we help?

Hello. Hello, Nick. He seems surprised to be on the air. It's Ken and George.

It just went blank all of a sudden. Um >> That happens to me all the time. Don't worry about it. What's going on?

So, I have a uh two large loans that I was curious the smartest way to get rid of uh at least one.

Um I make about 60 76 a year.

And uh one is uh $9,300

at uh 16% interest. And the other one is

going to be at almost 15,000 at 9%

interest.

Okay.

And uh Is that all of your debts? Total? Uh that's that's all my debts, yeah. Okay.

So, you got about 24 grand in debt, you're making 76. Are you single? Uh

I I'm with a girlfriend, a living girlfriend. Are you covering her bills?

Uh at the moment. Oh boy. Well, that's a

that's a rabbit trail that I want to go down badly, but I will not. I'll just say this, please do not combine finances or pay off anybody else's debts.

>> We don't have to go down the rabbit trail. Although I think it might be fun, but uh the point is is that's the answer to your question. Stop paying for her and that and that allows you to pay off debt faster.

It sounds like you're stressed out about the interest. My guess is you want to tackle uh the 16% interest first, right?

That that was my thought. Uh I have about um $16,800

uh saved. Um You have 16,000?

16,000, yeah. Oh, awesome. How much are you paying? I'm not leaving the girlfriend alone because this actually real money. I'm serious. How much are you paying every month for her bills and her stuff?

Well, it's basically it's uh bills that we both use. So, you know, uh phone, we have uh two lines on the same phone line, uh electric and all that stuff. Um when she had her job before, uh she's currently looking for a new one, she was paying half the bills, I was paying the majority of the other bills so I could rent and some other stuff.

Um Oh boy. >> Other than that, it's it's it's it's small. It's not it's not much. Um but my

goal >> How much is it? You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show when you ask a direct question. Is it 500 bucks a month?

Uh I get that they're split.

>> less. Okay. >> Yeah, so uh currently because it's winter, uh it's kind of coming out of winter now, it was about anywhere between 200 to 300 electric.

Uh 825 in rent and then maybe uh $200

with the phone and internet. I'll tell you, Nick, I wouldn't be job hunting super hard if I had Bank of Nick at hand to cover the bills anyways. Fact. Just saying. All right, but to the question at hand, we teach the debt snowball method because we have found that that's what actually causes people to get out of debt. So, the debt snowball method says focus on the smallest balance first regardless of the interest rate. Now, it's your lucky day because your smallest balance has the highest interest rate. Right?

>> Yeah. So, the main question is why haven't you used part of that 16 grand you have saved to just knock out this debt?

That's what I was I was planning on doing, but I figured, you know, what? Let me call one of you guys and see what my options are cuz I This is the first time I've ever been able to hold savings.

My whole life has been one step forward, five steps back. >> Do you think that's partially due to the debt that you've been taking on?

Wouldn't it be easier to save up money if you've had no payments?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, there you go. One more reason to knock out the debt. What's the payment on that $9,300 debt? Uh 9,300 is 430 a month. Boom. So, you know what happens? You clear that debt and you still have what? Almost seven grand left over.

Uh yeah, about yeah. So, let's take six of that apply it to the next one.

I'm a three three of that's actually going to my car fix. Okay.

So, we're down to 13 minus the nine.

Right? So, that leaves us with around four. You could take another three of that and tackle your next debt. So, that brings you to a total balance of 12K left over and we have an extra 430 bucks to throw at that debt. And girlfriend needs to be pulling her weight.

That's another nice raise.

She She's going to bust on me now. She She hears me, guys. How much you paying for these phone lines?

How I'm sorry, how much what? How much are these phone lines?

Uh we're paying $70 for um the internet,

so that's $140, I believe. For the uh phones. Oh, your phones are included with the internet. Is that what's happening?

Uh it's it's a cheaper plan for the phones because we have the internet bundled in, but the internet itself is $70. Okay.

I was going to tell you that switch your phone I think you're overpaying for your phone plan is what I was getting at. You could save some money there. So, I think there's some savings to be had in your expenses. Uh if you want to switch, we have a great partner with Boost Mobile. You can jump on to boostmobile.com/ramsey.

25 bucks a month. So, if you're paying 50 now, well, you just freed up times two. You You save 50 bucks a month just like that. So, there's a lot of things you can do in your budget. My guess is you haven't been paying super close attention to what's actually going on with your money. And if you did, you'd go, "Ooh, I can shave here. I can shave here." You'd find another 500 bucks on top of this 430 you're about to free up.

Yeah. So, now we got a thousand bucks a month going at this remaining uh 13k.

>> And what do you do for a living?

I do water treatment.

Yeah, you're pretty handy guy. I picked up a you do your own work on your own car. Yes. I mean, I'd be looking for I would say that at least 2K in labor, I believe. Yeah, good for you, boy. So, 5K job became a 3K job. >> But my point is is is could you do some work on the side given all that handy skills that you have just to make more money to to just make this thing go faster, you know? So, I'm just I want you to be thinking how do I do this?

George just walked you through a lot of it, but you could also bring in some more income. I mean, every time we have a debt-free scream on the stage, the income goes up

every time. We go, "Okay." They They tell us how much they paid off and how long and we say, "All right, what was your income in that time?" And they go, "It was this, and then it went up." Every time.

And so, uh know that you can do that as well to fast forward all this.

Okay. Do you have a goal in mind of when you're actually going to become debt-free if you follow this plan?

As soon as possible. Don't love that.

That's not a date. You sound like a politician again. How about this? You're you're paying off your debt today, the 9,300. We're going to put a little bit remaining on that 15K. We're down to 13K, right? So, now it's I'm going to pay off $13,000 in 6 months.

And put that on the calendar, market, put it on your bathroom mirror. Come hell or high water, we are getting rid of this debt. And that means no matter what it takes, no matter what sacrifices. And that might [music] mean, "Hey, girlfriend, you're going to need to cover your own bills through some side gigs cuz I got some debt to pay off." That's a real conversation that should have happened yesterday.

Well, she just heard it, apparently. Oh, boy. Is she on the line, too? >> said that she was listening. She's no friend of mine? No. No.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, welcome back to the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. Hey, if you've ever wanted to see the person who's calling in asking these

questions. What would it be like to be in the same room with them? You got your chance. We're taking the Ramsey show back on tour. We've got four cities coming up. You get to experience the show live, raw, in the room. And it's a

lot of fun. We did two last fall. They were great, sold out. These are going to sell out. We're in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim coming up this April. We're doing these in really cool venues, only 300 seats.

Uh and they're very intimate. So, we'd love to see you. Uh grab your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events.

That's ramseysolutions.com/events.

Brian is up in Syracuse, New York now.

Brian, how can we help?

Hey guys, good afternoon. Hey, so >> I've been interviewing at some companies

and I am anticipating hopefully a couple

offers to come in in the next couple weeks here. Um I have background and experience in the roles I'm interviewing for, but the roles are net new to the

businesses I'd potentially be joining.

So, my question is what resources can I

use to help determine market value so I can most wisely negotiate my total compensation?

Yeah, well, if it were me, I mean, I would be doing research on this. Uh and

so, you can choose whatever you want to do, whether that's Claude, ChatGPT, Grok, I don't care, you know, Google.

But you want to dive in and get as many resources as you can that create a

a pretty good narrative that's provable

on the range and see where you stand first. So, I'd be doing that first and go okay, where based on where I think I'm at from a skill standpoint and experience based on the again the size of the company, the industry itself. There's a lot you can do and you get a pretty good idea of the range that you think is realistic. So, that's where I would start and and see where you land on that and and then when you get an offer any kind of negotiation is based and needs to be based in reality.

Yeah, that's where I was trying to land, you know, like I can use GPT and that's fine, but I want reliable good data so I can say hey, here's my experience, here's the conversation we've had and then based off of this rock solid data, here is where I've come to this number.

Well, again, when you get that information, ask for the sources.

Yeah. You'd be surprised. You know, you can find that you can find that. And then you'll have a range and you know what you're looking for and so when you go in there, be confident, don't be rude, but be firm and say hey, I'm currently interviewing for positions in this range. And usually what you want is your bottom end is really the kind of where you want to be. At this stage though, you should have already discussed with them in the interview process salary expectations, yes or no?

Uh yeah, I left it a little open.

Um so, I didn't say you know, I need X. I thought that'd be better positioned once they they want me, they know that I can really get it done and I have a bit more leverage. So, I I have an idea, but I would say like even their range is

lower than what I came from. So, it's still doable, but again, you know, I want to maximize and I'm looking at more than just that dollar, you know, I want to look at the total package as a whole. Have you let them know that?

Yeah. Okay. >> did. So, they're aware of hey, we're kind of low for where this guy is at and what he's currently making. How can we make this compensation package as a whole a little bit more exciting?

Yeah, exactly right. And and these interviews as well just came from, you know, networking like direct conversations. Um so, I didn't want to necessarily blow it before we got there.

Um and the conversations have been and really exceptional. So, yeah, again, I want to make sure I get good data, good information. >> So, now we take the data that you're going to go find and you can prove it and you got some sources and and again, the you're never going to get an exact amount. You're always going to get a range, but if we do our research and we've got some real sourcing, which is easy to do in today's world, trust me.

And so, we're going to take that research and and that just informs us based on where you are right now. You're not going to go take the job for less money.

So, the the starting point is where you are now. That's the basement, correct?

Uh yeah, I mean, honestly, I would I'm I was part of a big layoff, so I would even take a little bit less just to kind of get back up there and work back up.

>> Okay, but know what your basement is is my point. So, when you go into respond to an offer, you got to say, "Okay, I know what my basement is and that's the worst case scenario and then how does the research inform where I'm at on my basement?" And then you'll be fine, you know? And look, here's the thing.

All of this is about posture.

If you act like a jerk or act like an entitled punk, which you're not going to, but if any of us act that way in our response to an offer, then then that's where it could go south on you. But you have to control what you can control and if your posture is one of humility, but confidence,

okay? Based on knowing what you need and knowing where you belong from the research, if we've got a nice mix of humility and confidence to go, "Gosh, guys, I there's a lot about this I like, but realistically, and I don't know what you can do, that's a great negotiation tactic. I don't know if you can do more, but this would be ideal." I mean, that's all you can do, and you let the chips fall where they fall. I like that.

An open-ended, "Can you Can you do any better? I'm just curious." And if you leave it like that and the spirit's right, the vibe is right, then it's not offensive.

It's not going to hurt your chances of getting the job. >> sounds like he's in a He's at the tail end of this thing. >> Yeah. Let's land the plane, Brian. Let's go. >> it. Let's go to Richard next in Los Angeles. Richard, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Um hopefully, you can be some great assistance and some great recommendations for me. I uh currently have owned my home for about 4 and 1/2 years. I have about 300K in equity. Uh big mortgage payment. Uh I'm

single income in my family. Uh I'm married with three children. I take care of the household. My wife's a stay-at-home wife.

Uh home schools the kids as well, so she's busy, busy, busy, okay? Um

basically, I'm I'm just living every 2 weeks when I get paid, I net about 9 grand a month. My mortgage is about five. Um I don't have any car payments. My cars are paid for. Um I have about a $2,000 credit card that I owe some money I owe I owe money on, and I have a $5,000 credit card that I owe money on. My utilities are averaging anywhere from

All the utilities included about 700 a month. So, you know, and then I got food bill, all right? So, I got to feed the whole family. So, it's just I'm literally just, you know, tired of just hand-to-mouth. I'm 51 years old. So, I need to know, is you know, should I sell my home and just move out of the state and buy something within my means? You know, my mortgage rate's 3.9, so it's it's very low rate, you know, so I hate to lose that cuz rates are high.

But I'm just torn, and I'm tired of um living this, you know, every 2 a paid paycheck to paycheck kind of thing. It's just it's tough. And not to mention, I do have a little bit saved away in my 401k, not a whole lot, but you know, I I can't even do the, you know, 7% company match. I'm I'm barely hitting 3%. So, you know, it's just

Yeah, you're treading water in every area. You're trying to pay off the debt, but even that's hard. You don't have anything in savings. You're putting a pitiful amount in retirement, and things are tight. And it's directly tied to that gigantic mortgage payment. I mean, that's that's eating your lunch right now. That's over half your take-home pay, and it doesn't seem like any of the variables are changing. Your income is not going to go up drastically in the near future, is it? 6 to 12 months?

>> No, no. I've been on the job for 13 years. I'm not going anywhere.

Okay. And so, 9K is where we're staying, and guess what? The mortgage is only going to go up, because part of that is your escrow, which is your taxes and insurance. And as we know, insurance has been going up, taxes are going to continually go up on property taxes, especially in California. And so, the issue here is if your income stays about the same, and the mortgage goes up, it's only going to get worse. And so, your best bet would be to downsize.

Okay. Take that equity you have. It might be renting for a little while. It might be taking that 300K equity and putting a down payment on a a much, you know, cheaper or smaller house. I don't know how that affects your family and where you are location-wise.

Mhm. Um it it affects and it's, you know, it's the average house in California is like I think 540,000 right now, average in the region where we live.

So, you know, but I I don't I wouldn't be able to those neighborhoods aren't, you know, we live in a I I hate to say that, but

the neighborhood just wouldn't be something that we would feel comfortable living in. Yeah. Well, the reality is you're in a a very high cost of living area, and it requires a very high income. And you have a great income, but you bought too much house too soon.

>> [music] >> And so, you need to make some drastic decisions here, and that probably includes relocating, downsizing, and maybe a rent in a neighborhood you want for now, [music] and hang on to that 300 grand, get out of debt, get the emergency fund, and get to a better spot before purchasing your next one.

>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, do you plan on retiring a millionaire? Yes. Oh, that was a rhetorical. I'm sorry. >> No, no. I mean, a lot of people do, but the vast majority of Americans uh George never hit that mark. Here's a piece of data that I thought was shocking. Only 3% of US adults have $1 million saved for retirement. Is that shocking to you, or you so in the numbers that you're you're unshocked? Yeah, I mean, 97% have

less than a million dollars saved. If you switch the data around, you go, "Yeah, that tracks." That tracks. And here's the funny part, Ken. I In the comments section, as I encourage people to do this, they go, "A million dollars is nothing in today's America." I go, "Are you even investing?" No. The answer is no. So, here's the thing. Uh we're not saying that you only need a million dollars. For some people, that might be more than enough. For some, it might not be near enough. But, I want to show people today that you can

retire with a million-dollar nest egg, no matter how old you are. >> All right, cynics, pay attention. So, it's not about income, it's about margin, how much you're able to put away a month, and how early you start. And here's the other thing. We talk about investing, it's different than saving.

You can't save your way to wealth.

Saving is just parking money in an account. A high yield savings account maybe gets 3%. Investing, we're talking about in the stock market, in companies we're rooting for, partial ownership called shares, and we're rooting for these companies to grow in revenue, which increases the share price, which increases our nest egg. That's how compound growth works, your money making more money, making more money. So, I'm going to use the Ramsey investment calculator today to inspire you all to

become wealthy. All right? And if you don't become wealthy after watching this, that's your own fault. So, you guys can click the link in the description or jump on a ramseysolutions.com to use the calculator. So, Ken, let's throw out some scenarios, some ages, and I'll tell you how much you need to invest at that age to become a millionaire by 65. >> Okay, good. >> Or 62 in this case. All right.

Am I throwing these at you? >> out. >> Okay, here we go. How about age 24? Oh, okay. So, we're out of college, we got our first big boy job. >> Probably, right? And 24, and let's say you're going to retire at 62. You have the ability to do that because you started early. >> Okay. You're we're going to invest and we're going to also imagine you got a I don't know, thousand bucks in there so far. How much will you contribute monthly? $150 a month. We're going to

assume an 11% average annual rate of return. People go, "Where are you getting 11%? This guy's crazy." I'm literally looking at historical data of the US stock market over the last several decades. And if you look at the last few years, it's been up 23%, 25%,

17%. So, don't act like these numbers are crazy. This is pretty conservative here. So, calculate, as you can see, almost $1.1 million. 24 to 62, 150 bucks

a month. It's unbelievable. All right, let's jump it up a bit. All right. So, let's let's talk about these people that are they've been out of college for 10 years or so.

Uh no longer the young professional, but still young. Yep. >> 35. Okay.

so let's say by 35 you followed the plan, you're debt-free, you've got the emergency fund, you are ready to invest. 35, you would need to invest and we're going to say 65. You got a little bit of a later start, 65 is still a great age to be retiring, to not have to work anymore. You're going to have to invest $375 a month and you would have a little over a million bucks.

Now, what you'll notice here, Ken, is you have to invest a whole lot more as you get older in order to hit that same goal. And the beautiful part here is you don't need to invest a million dollars to have a million dollars.

The growth alone was $942,000.

That's the magic money of you just staying in the market, staying put, letting compound growth do the work. 87% was just the growth. So, let's say you get an even later start. >> Yeah, let's let's take a 10-year swing here. Let's go to 45. >> Okay, 45. Most people who call in the show at 45 go, "I am way behind. I got nothing saved in retirement." You would need to invest, here's, you ready for the sticker shock? $1,200 a month

to have a little over a million in that one account. You see what I'm talking about here? We went from 150 bucks a month to 1,200 bucks a month if you had a 20-year gap. And so, the power of starting early is powerful and you'll notice at 45 to 65 you had to contribute $288,000 to get that million. But at the ripe age of Well, we go back to that 24 to 62.

Look at this, you didn't contribute 288, you contributed about half a mill Oh, sorry, I messed it up here. Let me go back to that 150.

All right, here we go. Look at this, $68,000.

So, not only did you have to contribute less per month, but it was a total of 68 grand that got you that million. That's wild. >> It's doable. That 94% of that account balance was compound growth and it's the power of starting early. And let me tell you, if you're listening and you're going, "Well, George, must be nice to be 24 or 35 or even 45." It is not too late

for you. There is still hope yet, and that is just one account. And so, think about it. You got a paid-for house?

Well, that reduces the expenses that you'll have in retirement. So, it's not defined by your age, but by your financial goal. It's a number, and you can get there. So, go use the calculator for yourself to get inspired, not to lose hope, but to gain hope that you can build wealth for your family and leave a legacy. We'll drop a link in the description to that investment calculator for you guys to check out.

And this is why, by the way, you need to be using every dollar, right? When you've got to get to a point to say, "Okay, I've got to be disciplined now.

No longer am I going to let just money come in and leave and not know where it's going." So, having a budget, like EveryDollar, to use that app, to have a coach, a personalized plan, that's what's going to help you be disciplined to be able to put the right amount of money away to actually take care of your long-term goals. >> Exactly. People go, "Check out EveryDollar." Ken, where am I going to get 400 bucks a month?" I'm going, "Dude, your car payment's 600 bucks a month. I think we found the investment money.

You just traded it for something going down in value." >> Yeah, that's exactly right. >> It's there. Use EveryDollar. It'll It'll find you that margin.

John, what's your question?

Hey, Dave, and uh how you doing? Good. It's Ken.

>> and I uh have been here about a year. I moved from South America here to Boston with her, which was a big life change. So, we're now making uh I'm making 60, she's making 80 a year.

Uh and right now we're doing like half and half, and it's starting to weigh on me a little bit. My wife feels very strongly that uh her her uh a little bit

bigger salary and her savings it it should be all hers. And I don't feel like telling her that uh we should combine it, but it's weighing on me in a way cuz uh we moved into an apartment that she she preferred, and we bought a car that she preferred. Uh so, I'm just feeling the pressure of paying half of the expenses

uh expenses. So, you guys have never been aligned on money.

Uh Right?

We we've I mean we've tried. We did the Financial Peace University. We We took a

couple of shortcuts, I would say. Um No, we took some shortcuts. You're not only feeling pressure, you're feeling depressed because your wife doesn't listen to one thing you say about money.

Does it make you feel disrespected?

Emasculated, a little small, a little left out? >> Yeah. Well, I'm trying to I'm trying to keep up, you know, but >> Keep up with what?

Marriage isn't about keeping up. It's about >> ago I >> making your life better. >> You said I don't feel like telling her.

I mean you're you have been absolutely put in a jar, my friend, and you don't I don't need you to validate that. I was just trying to get you to realize what we're hearing. We're on your side.

But you guys have a massive marriage communication and values alignment problem that you got to get fixed. George and I can't give you some little one-two punch today. You guys need to get on the same page, and you may need a professional to help you, or you're going to end up resenting your wife if you don't already.

Are you feeling what I'm saying?

Yeah, absolutely. >> Am I wrong?

Uh I Well, I feel like she's a bit more open to find a solution that it sounds like maybe I I maybe I try a bit more to >> Okay. Well, then if she's open Okay, great. If she's open to meet you in the middle then you guys need to have a candlelight dinner tonight, and we get out every dollar, and we say we're going to combine finances, and then after we combine finances, we're going to put it in a budget, and we are going to get aligned, and we're not going to take shortcuts.

We're just not going to do it because she's thinking a shortcut's okay. You're stressed out by the shortcut, which leads back to the same problem. You guys aren't on the same page. George, what advice would you give here?

>> everything right now is Well, that's yours, this is mine, I make this money, you make this money, this is my thing, that's your thing. When you guys got married, everything became one, total unity. Right?

You can do it separately, it's just going to be a whole lot harder, and there's so many more ways you can screw it up. And so, you need to reset the conversation is that, "Hey, I have not done a good job leading in this area. I would like to restart and be totally unified for our financial goals so that we can win together. That's why we got married."

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm [music] Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225

is the number. Robert joins us now in Denver, Colorado. Robert, how can we help?

Hey Ramsey team. So, I got a lot of debt. It kind of escalated back in June,

and uh I'm looking at things, and uh I think I need some help. Okay, how can we help?

So, uh I got a car that was too expensive, and I ended up putting a lot

of my daily expenses on a credit card, and so uh it was at a point where I couldn't really afford the the car payment, and I was putting everything else on a credit card. So, now I'm kind of looking back at everything and uh I I

just recently got rid of the car and

there was negative equity. >> Uh so, I went I traded it in at a dealership and uh yeah, I just got trade-in value for the vehicle. And that paid off the loan?

It did not. So, I actually have too much

debt to income and I couldn't get a loan

to pay for the negative equity. So, I had to borrow money from my dad to

pay that negative equity. How much was that? Uh that was $4,100. Okay.

So, 4,100 to dad. What else What other debts do you have now?

And then I also have another $4,100 on a credit card. Um I got $3,000 in a personal loan

and $34,000 in student loans.

Okay, so that's the big one. Is that split up into a bunch of separate loans?

No, I actually refinanced uh in June and so now it's just one one loan for that. Okay. With a private lender?

Uh yes.

Okay. Well, we're going to debt snowball this thing. Do you have the income to support it and do you have reliable transportation right now? Uh I do and that's that's another part of this. So, I ended up borrowing money from my boss to buy a car. Oh my goodness. >> My My boss sold me uh one of his old work cars and uh I'm currently making him payments on that.

Well, that's an awkward situation.

Yeah, so it's it's real debt and IOU's.

>> Hard to ask for a raise right now, isn't it? A little bit. What do you make?

Uh so, I make about $46,000 a year.

Doing what? Uh I'm an arborist. Okay.

And how old are you?

Uh I'm 27 years old. Okay. Single?

Single. Great. Which means we have a lot of time on our hands and we can cut our expenses down to the bone and no one is affected but you.

Uh-huh. We agree? We agree. Sweet.

So, what can we do to make more money?

Cuz right now, uh you've got a a big pile of debt, right? You've got as much debt as you do income.

Yeah. Is that right? >> That that is that is true. That is right. >> So, that debt-to-income ratio, you're going, all right, something needs to change here. We can't change the debt picture. There's nothing we can sell. Uh you've you've already got rid of the car. You owe How much do you owe your boss?

Uh I owe my boss $500. Oh.

What car was this? Was it a $500 car? Or did you give him money on top of that?

It was It was a $2,000 car and uh I told

him I was like, "Hey, I really don't have the money right now, but I want the truck." And he's like, "Okay, well, uh Is he garnishing your wages?

He is not garnishing my wages, no, he is not. Where did the 1,500 come from?

Uh it came from my tax return.

Okay, which is essentially your wages.

That was money that would have been in your paycheck. Okay.

Well, Robert, uh the path forward is

going to involve a whole lot of work.

So, what can you do? Is there anything in your field as an arborist that you can do on the side?

Um probably. I would just need tools for it. Uh cuz right now my company supplies all the tools and I'd have to go out and buy all that stuff. So, that's kind of why I'm hesitant to do something like that. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What can you do that doesn't require you to buy tools?

Um You're breaking up on us.

Sorry about that. Um I could work overtime. Boom. How much?

>> Yeah. Uh I could probably get an extra hour or two a day. Okay, but let's What What else? What I'm getting at is I want you to think outside of the box of well, I'm an arborist and I usually use my company tools. So I'd have to go buy tools. No, well what other skill sets or if it's just manual labor, what can you do to make an additional $1,000 a month? That you don't have to

answer it on the air, but that's the homework exercise.

Right? >> Okay. Let's go make some more money and throw it at this debt because as a young guy, you have and George put you on the spot, you have you have all kinds of time. And the more you can work, the more money you make, the faster you get out of this. That's the mindset. What can I do? Where can I Can I sell something?

This kind of intensity gets you out of the situation. Can you cut down some trees? Can you do landscaping?

How wide is your skill set here?

Uh so it's it's between trimming and plant health care. So applying uh herbicides and uh fungicides, pesticides, things like that. >> Great. Those guys are knocking on doors all day long selling people. And so you can be doing that. You can jump on a Facebook group and say, "Hey, here's what I provide. I'm not going to rip you off. I know what I'm doing. I'm an actual arborist. Here's what I provide.

Here's my services." You do a few good jobs in the neighborhood. Now all of a sudden you got 14 homes in the neighborhood that you're taking care of.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

I do, yeah. I mean, we just had a storm come through Nashville, Ken. The amounts of money people were charging just to remove a tree branch was astronomical.

>> I had to cut one of my trees down. There you go. Of course I did. Where were you, Robert? So you see what we're getting at here? Get creative with the skills you have and if that runs out of steam, you can always do, you know, some of the side gig economy stuff, but you're going to make way more doing the thing that you're already good at.

Well, I like that idea. So yes to overtime cuz right now at this at this rate, it's going to take you forever to pay off this debt.

Mhm. You only have a few hundred bucks a month if you're lucky to throw at the debt, right?

Yeah, yeah. But if we could throw two grand a month at the debt, now we're done in two years. Uh-huh. That's the math. So, that's your number is I need to find two grand worth of margin to throw at these debts, smallest to largest balance, attack the little one with a vengeance while making minimum payments on the rest. Once one balance is knocked out, frees up a payment, apply it to the next one. That's the debt snowball method.

I understand. Have you ever done a budget?

Uh not really, no.

>> Today is your lucky day, Robert. I'm going to hook you up with EveryDollar if you promise to use it. This is our budgeting app, and as you go through the onboarding experience, it's going to personalize recommendations to help you find more margin, just like I'm doing right now. It's going to do this on steroids all day long inside of the app making a plan for every dollar.

Are you in? Yeah, I'm in. All right. 24 months. That I hope you do it even faster than that, but 24 months is the final final final

cutoff. Make that a goal, find the margin, stick to it. Oh, to be young again, Ken, cuz when I was his age, that's what I was doing. I started here at 23.

I had $40,000 in debt. I wasn't making $40,000.

>> I did about 17 side hustles. I was building websites for entrepreneurs and speakers and authors. I was doing marketing consulting. I was driving for Uber, driving for Lyft on top of cutting my groceries down to the bone. >> How many hours a week were Do you remember how many hours you were doing?

Uh it was at least two hours every night when I got home from work, and then I would go heavier on the weekends, try to knock out six hours a week.

>> additional money were you making per month as a result of all of this?

>> I probably made an extra 25 grand my first year of just just in side hustles alone. That's huge. That's huge. It's very doable. >> Possible. And the younger you are, the less responsibilities you have, even better.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Daniel in Chicago. Daniel, how can we help?

Hi. Yes, my my father has a term life policy that he's considering canceling. There's 10 years left on the policy. My mother passed away in September, so he no longer has my mother to provide for and he's always had a

little bit of a strange relationship with life insurance. And so So he's highly considering canceling that policy and I'm just trying to get him the best advice on whether that is a wise decision now or not.

He's doesn't have anyone else at home. You know, my my mom was the only other person there and so I'm just looking to give him the best advice I can on whether he should keep that policy or let it go. Yeah, tell me about the the weird relationship. I didn't know you could have a weird relationship with term life insurance.

He has from from his father and and from his

bringing up. You know, my my grandfather never had life insurance.

It's always been seen as something of you know, people getting rich off of your death type of mentality. He's he's

changed that view a little bit over the years. I think your show has helped him with that and and he does understand that it's to help provide for your family if you were to pass type of thing.

Now he's He is 65 years old. All right and what

is his net worth?

That's a little tough to say. I mean I think he estimated it somewhere around

the 350 to 400k when when he said it was

all said and done.

That is his entire estate, his retirement, everything.

That's that's that's what he's told me he estimates it at. >> And what's the face value of the policy?

$250,000

I'll tell you right now it's a steal of a deal.

Cuz that's half of his net worth right there. Does he still have any debts? Any mortgage?

No, his only debt is one car payment that that he continues to pay on but the house estate and everything else has been paid off. Okay.

Well, the rule of thumb with life insurance is it exists to replace your income to cover the people who need it.

And you're saying that there's no one who needs it at this point. The kids are grown and gone. They're doing well on their own. Um He has enough assets to cover final expenses, burial, the debts, all of that is what you're saying?

I the as far as what he's communicated to me, yes, he does uh he does have that. I think my my one main concern is

he has talked about dating in the future

where there would be somebody that uh might be in the uh might be in the picture in the future. That's a great reason to hold on to it. Cuz if he gets rid of it now, he's going to have a real tough time getting it again, especially for the rate he's paying.

How much is he paying per month?

$80. Oh my god. Okay, what's his income?

Uh roughly about 50,000 uh a year. Okay.

So, as a as a part of his world, it's not much. It's very reasonable, especially for a guy his age.

Um it's not a huge policy, if we're going to be honest. We recommend 10 to 12 times your income.

And so, if he makes 50, it should be a a half million-dollar policy or more. And he's got 250. So, he's got half of as much as he needs, but again, he doesn't fully need it. Uh what he needs is a bigger nest egg. And uh unfortunately, he's not going to be able to get that out of the insurance policy.

So, if I'm in his shoes, I would personally keep it for the peace of mind. Cuz if you look at the actual math on this, we're talking he's paying 960 a year for 10 more years, right? Yes. So,

what we're really saying is is it worth the risk transfer? If something were to happen to me from 65 to 75, there would be a $250,000 payout to the beneficiary for the low

low price of 9,600 bucks.

Correct. You see So, when I put it in those terms, I go, that's a good buy.

I would hang on to that, not knowing what the future holds, not knowing if I'm going to get remarried one day. 10 years is a long time.

That's That's been my advice to him. Um

he has just been hesitant to take that advice uh mostly because he feels that he should take that uh extra thousand dollars a year and invest it into something so it's guaranteed return even though it's not as big of a return. Got it. At what age did your mother pass?

She was 63 years old. Wow. Was it health

reasons? Yeah, she died of lung cancer. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

Thank you. Well, that would put things in perspective for me going we're not promised tomorrow. I mean, he's 65 not 25 and so the chances go up over time

that he could pass and so I hope he lives a very long life. 30 more years and the policy lapses and he goes, "Wow, that was a waste of 9600 bucks." I would love for us to be looking back in hindsight having never used it. That's sort of the goal with term life is that you never have to use it. And that's the point of insurance.

I don't want to have to use my car insurance, but I sure as heck isn't I'm going to have it. So, I can't make the decision for him, but I would find 80 bucks elsewhere to go invest and he should be investing.

And Daniel, again, we we talk about this all the time on much bigger issues, much stickier issues than this. It's very difficult for um an adult to convince or persuade

their parent to do something. You can advise, you can give some ideas, uh but

other than that, you got to let it go. And and he's going to decide. I think your winning point is, "Hey, you mentioned wanting to date and that could turn into something, then this would be a good thing to have." I think George's point on that is probably the best case you can make for him why he should keep it. Um because again, it it's just not that much money.

Right. That's barely going to cover the coffin, man. You got to have 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15, 20-year level term policy. And the people that I have mine through, Ken has his through his Zander insurance.

You can jump on his zander.com and just knock this out. It really is not that difficult. Some of these now can >> The policies are no medical exam. You can literally do it online if you're in good health.

>> that right? >> If it's under a million dollars and you're in good health, uh there's a lot of these that where you don't even need to get your blood >> the old uh the nurse. I've had to do that. shows up, takes the blood panel.

>> even that is is just really not a problem.

They come in, they do the thing, and you got peace of mind. And by the way, it does not increase your chances of dying if you get term life insurance. You're going to it's the same exact chances regardless. >> And I got three kids, a wife.

I put a pretty good amount on me. I I I sleep with one eye open. >> enough in there that you're a little bit worried. I like that, Ken.

>> Stacy, "Don't get any ideas here." All right.

Oh, I like that. >> that? >> I love a clause. I >> [laughter] >> What can I say?

You like a clause where you're the main part of it. >> Well, I have to imagine if I'd have done that with Zander >> Is there a way to put George Camel in this that uh he comes in, he's got a lot of questions, he's very suspicious. Uh there's enough money in here to handle George hiring a private investigator, and you would then determine whether or not Stacy gets the money.

>> I think I may ask him if I can write you into that. That could be great.

>> Stranger things have happened. I'm sure a lot of people are leaving me as beneficiary on their term life and in their wills [laughter] for all I've done for all >> Now, that's a really dumb question. But let me tell you about good questions. People are flooding to Ask Ramsey, uh

our free AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsey principles.

And today, George, we're going to break down the most asked question from this week. Are you ready? Uh the main question is, what are the best strategies for paying off debt while maintaining a good credit score?

>> Interesting. Okay, well, I'll tell you my take on this. You start by making a budget, save a thousand dollars, start an emergency fund, list all your debts except your mortgage from smallest to largest balance regardless of the interest rate, and pay minimum payments on all the debts except the smallest one, knock it out quick, move on to the next debt. And by the way, I cheated. That was from Ask Ramsey.

Joke's on you guys. >> See, it actually does. Life is an open-book test. Why would I not utilize the tool at hand?

>> And Ask Ramsey is is is playing off of what we say on the air. And here let's talk about the credit score angle. It hits this, too. For your credit score, it may dip a little as you pay off debt and close accounts, but that's okay.

The goal is financial freedom, not a good credit score. So, [music] I love this comment. Can Can I read this to you real quick? saw this in the Ramsey Facebook group.

Donald said, "It has answered some very obscure questions I've had for a long time. I listened to about five total years of Ramsey shows and try to hear some situations, but this tool can answer them right away for your specific situation." >> There it is.

You can't miss it, right there at the top, Ask Ramsey. Or you know, I like to send you to the show notes, folks, because >> down there. >> there's just good stuff in the show notes. Click the link.

>> [music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's It's hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation, and every day it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today.

Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain.

Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Tax season is upon us. To get free checklists and guides that will help you file, make sure that you go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

All right, let's go to Josh in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Josh, how can we help?

Yes, hi. Can I hear me? Just want to make sure you can hear me. >> Yes, we hear you well.

>> it's an honor it's an honor to to be here on the show with you guys. Y'all are awesome. Thank you for what you do.

How can we help? >> So, my question is uh my dad's going to be calling me here shortly, and I need some help with communicating with him without overstepping as being the son.

Okay. Um he's going to be giving me good news that he's retiring after 6 years with the company, and he wants to take out his whole retirement and pay off the house, which I'm okay with.

It's not really a house, it's a mobile home. And um he has a lot of other debt,

though. Like a lot of other debt. Cars,

um a lien on my house um Why is he retiring? Like a lot

He wants to go to another company.

Um he said he offered he was offered a job today. Okay, so he's not retiring. He's switching jobs.

Yeah, but I just wish he would take the money and maybe move it to another account. It's $70,000 is all it is, but it's all he's got. But what is it? Is it in a 401k?

It's in a single stock.

With the company? Yikes. Oh, okay. So it's really not retirement money. It's just he's got stock in the company.

Right. Yeah, it's not Is it trapped in a retirement account or is it a non-retirement account buying stock up from the company like an employee stock purchase program? >> Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's like a stock option, so he can cash out. Okay, so he has a lean

on his mobile home.

Yeah, from my understanding like he he wasn't really up front with me about well, about my wife about it. He had just talked to her at lunch and he's going to be calling me cuz I just got off work. >> Oh, I see. So he's all excited.

>> [laughter] >> Feel like he could ring in while we're talking to you. This is like fresh. Oh, man. So you don't want to be a buzzkill going, "Dad, congrats and don't do this really dumb thing." Yeah, I'm I'm just having a little struggling moment right now.

>> Well, what's his total debt?

What's his total debt?

Um It's $800 on the house for sure. Uh he's got He just rolled over the car twice, so I don't even want to know how much that brand new car is. >> negative equity twice.

Yes. >> Oh my gosh. >> And then um he's got a bunch of credit card debt that I know of. Well, he's going to get taxed. So let's let's reframe this. Let's reframe this. I appreciate you calling us about this, but we need to reframe this whole thing because your dad is excited. He's so excited he

called your wife at lunch today. Right. Okay? This is hilarious. And he's coming into some money, and he's excited, and he's 62

years old. And he's made a bunch of boneheaded decisions with money. All right, let's just Can we pour all that into the cup cuz that's the cocktail we're dealing with, all right? And you got to think through this. And as an objective bystander, you called say, "What's your opinion?" This is my take, okay?

Um all you can do is ask him some really good questions. I

Their questions are better than suggestions. When we're talking about our dad who's excited about cashing out

and has made a bunch of bonehead decisions. You Would you agree with that?

Yes. Okay. So, questions like And

George, you jump in here, popcorn it.

But some questions are, "Hey Dad, are you aware how much you're going to have to pay in taxes on that stock?" I'd start with that.

Right? Right. >> And who knows what he's going to say.

But that that question versus a suggestion is it's your best chance of

allowing him to think through some stuff that he may not think through, and you're not making a suggestion. As you Or if you said, "Uh Dad, um you know, you're going to you're going to pay this in taxes, so here's what I think you ought to do. Boom boom boom boom." And he's like, "Hey man, I just called to hear you say, 'Congrats.'" So, questions, not suggestions. That would be my advice.

First question I would ask is, "Dad, are you aware what the tax implications What are you going to Do you know what you're going to pay in taxes on that?" And hopefully he registers, "Oh, so I'm not walking away with $70,000 or whatever it is. I'm going to end up walking away with this." And then you go, "What are you thinking about doing with that money?" And then when he tells you what he what he's going to tell you, then you can ask some other questions. I just think if it's the son, that's about all you can do.

>> not going to be able to force him to do anything, but if you can scare him into it or excite him into something, that's a better route.

Um the the main question is finding out if this is in a retirement account or in a brokerage account, cuz that vastly, you know, changes the advice here. If it either way, we want to get out of this single stock. That is very risky. If it's in a brokerage account, it's simpler cuz like Ken said, there's going to be some capital gains taxes and that's it versus early withdrawal penalties on top of income tax, which is going to be a whole lot more.

But let me show you the math on this. If he just left the 70 grand, he rolled it over to a rollover IRA, so direct rollover never withdraws the money, but rolls it over to an IRA in his control, sells the stock inside of that and buys diversified mutual funds, now we're talking. And now you'll see an 11% return over the long haul. So from 58 to 68, if he does that, his 70 grand turns into over 200 grand.

That's pretty wild, right?

That is wild. And I just I I kind of know that. I've Pull up the calculator.

Show it. Say, "Hey, hey uh I talked to my financial advisor about your situation cuz I was curious as to what they would say." Cuz now it's not just your opinion against his.

You brought a professional into it and said, "Hey, I I talked to this guy. He thinks uh you really need to be thinking about the taxes on this and the implications of unplugging of the compound growth, the withdrawal penalties, and it would be a much wiser use to use your future income to pay down this debts, pay down the mobile home instead of robbing your retirement early." Because here's what it will turn into if you just left it alone and never added a dime.

See, now we're equipped with some facts.

We're we're not leaning into just anger or emotion. It's just very calm, very much you love him, you want the best for him, you have no skin in the game here, you would you would treat him like like he was a friend of yours.

So, the question is does he respect your your opinion enough?

Oh.

>> [laughter] >> There's your answer.

We've uh We've been Dave Ramsey fans for a while, you know. >> Who? I follow >> Not him? I follow me and my Yeah, me and me and my wife and >> Oh, okay. I was like, you and your dad?

Okay. Yeah, I mean, we already got the answer. When you ask someone, "Does he respect your opinion?" and your answer is >> [sighs] >> I mean, that's like a whole paragraph.

And that's where the third sound I think the third party angle, based on what you said, is the best route to go. Of, "Hey, I really This is a big decision. I'm so excited for you. This is a huge next chapter of your life. And I just thought I'd bounce it off of a friend of mine who's a financial advisor, and he's got no skin in the game. He just had this to say." And then you share everything we've talked about. >> Yeah, but I would calculate it. Yeah, ask questions, though. Ask questions.

You Listen, he can't get defensive if you're just asking questions. Yeah, but yes, but that's the right kind of question. In other words, don't ask a question where he feels pinned in. Just be like real light.

Like as soon as the call comes in, just go, "Okay, I don't want to tell Dad. I don't want to tell Dad. I don't want to tell Dad. I want to ask ask ask and I want to just be low-key, light, and let's just see where it goes from there." Because the minute Listen, after your long sigh and you reaching for the words to answer the question, "Does he respect your opinion?" I already know where this is at.

And and this is really hard. And by the way, I'm going through this in a different level. My parents are in great financial shape, but my parents are 75 and 74.

of life that when we they get to this age, and your dad's younger, I understand, but still, it's like the parent becomes the child.

And the child becomes a parent. And that's just life. And so, you've got to honor, but still keep a boundary there. And uh I catch myself all the time kind of saying something in a way that I go, "Well, I that was a little bit like, you know." It's a just be really careful here because it's his life, his mistakes.

There's only so much you can do. >> you can sleep well knowing you said your peace. And you make this the Oreo method here, all right? The top layer is, "Dad, I'm so excited for you.

>> [music]

[music]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But, here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 9:9. Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still. Teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

Our quote today from one of Georgia's favorite entertainment icons, Joan Rivers. A classic. [music] People say that money is not the key to happiness, but I always figured if you have enough money, you can have a key made. That's actually pretty good.

>> [sighs] >> Thank you, Joan. >> The late Joan Rivers. >> Yes. Zachary is up in Springfield, Michigan. Zachary, how can we help?

Hi. Hey, Ken. Hey, George. Hey, appreciate you guys taking my phone call. Sure. Yeah, I was wondering wondering if you guys could share some advice or or wisdom.

I so I've been reading the Bible lately.

It gets me thinking if my wife and I are are being generous enough at the moment.

But I I know the Bible talks about tithing and I'm wondering if that's the best approach when I'm on Baby Steps 4 through 6.

Baby Steps 4 through 6 and you said you're tithing and you're saying is that enough? You're doing 10% of your income?

>> No. No. No, I I know the Bible talks about tithing. I'm currently giving about 1 and 1/2 to 2% of my 1 and 1/2

gross income, 2% take home pay. Well, what do you believe? >> I'm wondering if Let's just Well, but this is This is so so if you're going to come at this from a biblical point of view, then it comes down to what the Bible says, what do you believe it says? Cuz a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about a lot of different parts of scripture.

Uh and so and so ultimately, you know, we can't tell you if you're giving enough, but I can ask you a few questions. So, the first question is, do you believe in tithing?

It's [clears throat] something that I that I definitely want to work up to.

Yeah. ask you that. Do you think because I didn't ask you that. >> Yeah, no, I Yeah, I do believe in tithing. I don't think the Bible would mention it as many times I Okay. So, so so there's that

standard. Again, you didn't call and I'm not preaching at you, but you called and you asked based on reading the Bible, and so that's between you and God as to how you take obedience on that particular issue.

Okay? So, you don't need me to you know, preach at you. So, you've already stated, well, I do believe I should be tithing. I'm not now. I I believe I should I'm going to work up to it, but again, that's that's up that's your deal. Uh I do believe in the tithe and I think that you should and so that's a baseline. And many people in different

sects of the faith still believe that

there's a tithe and an offering.

And again, the offering is above and beyond the tithe and that's between you and God as well. Okay? So,

without getting into a theological, you know, foundational lesson or some type of debate, you get to answer, am I giving enough?

That you get to answer that. We don't.

>> of the heart. Yeah.

So, I'm not trying to evade your your question, but that's as as solid as I can answer that.

You have to decide. >> Yeah. Right. I I I think the I think maybe a more specific question is if if that would apply to people of all ages, of all incomes.

Yes. >> I mean we're we're in a financial good situation right now where like let's say I I did want to go about tithing right now. You go from 1.5% up to 10%. It would just kind of slow down, you know, what I'm what I'm putting into like the brokerage right now, which is in the future going to be for a house and then also like for retirement.

We're I mean we are looking into saving for Well, >> uh children's college soon. Here's what I would tell you to do. Okay?

Uh buy a book or two on tithing. Go listen to some sermons on tithing, and I think you're going to hear a consensus. And if Dave were sitting here, and I'm not going to try to quote Dave, but if he were sitting here, uh I'm pretty certain he would say that that's the wrong mindset to look at tithing. That if I tithe, it's going to slow down my financial progress.

He would say, "If you tithe and you give, you will receive more blessing." And it doesn't mean it's dollar for dollar, so that's bad theology. I'm not saying that. But this idea, and George, I want you to weigh in on this as well.

tithe and and give a tenth of my

increase, my income to the Lord who blesses me with it, it's his money, I'm not going to be slowed down at all.

But again, that's that's a spiritual

mindset in believing in what the Bible says about tithing. I want to bring George in. George, what am I missing? >> what you said, uh Pastor Ken. And I want to add to that. I'll be taking an offering, by the way, at the end of the uh show. So stay tuned. >> this, I feel like it's actually a really good spiritual challenge for you.

Because what we're really saying is you see it as a finite pie. If I take this slice away, then I don't have that slice for XYZ. For the house, for the kids.

And I think what's so cool about the Bible is it's outside of a pie. It's We can't look at it in finite when you're talking about the infinite, right? And so, we can't think of it like, "If I give 10%, I won't have enough to pay off the mortgage." I think what you'll find is when you are obedient, when you are faithful, you never lack. You are given

enough to manage.

And uh I can throw some verses for you to to look up later. You can watch this back. Proverbs 3:9 and 10. Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the first fruits of all your crops, then your barns will be filled to overflowing.

Your vats will brim over with new wine.

Malachi 3:9 and 10. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. Not 1 and 1/2%. Whole tithe.

that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty. Woo, them fighting words. And see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

And finally, Matthew 6:26. I love this one. Look at the birds. They don't plant or harvest or store food in barns for your heavenly Father feeds them.

So, I think at the heart of this, it's a scarcity versus abundance spiritual challenge, Zachary. And this is You are not alone in this. I struggle with this.

This is still It's still something I'm figuring out and grappling with because it doesn't make sense on paper.

Right? But I think if you can learn to live on the 90 of what God has blessed you with, which I assume you have a great income, right? What's your household income?

Uh so so gross is about about 101.

That's a pretty fabulous income anywhere in America. Would you agree?

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's it's enough for us. And [laughter] how much And how much are you putting away? Are you right at the 15% in baby step four?

Uh I I was doing the math. It's closer to 20%. Uh it's I mean, overall retirement we're putting about 27 Okay.

a little over 27,000. 27%. So, now you're going You're going 12% extra above what we teach, and you're having a hard time giving 10%.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. It's 27,000. So,

Oh, actually, 27,000 out of your 101?

Oh, yeah. No, yeah. I get it. Yeah, that's That's 27%. 27%. I didn't have to take my shoes off. That was easy math.

Here's my challenge for you.

You try it You try it for a month. Try it for a month. If your life is worse and you hate it and you're going to retire broke because of it, you can uh you can go back to the way you were doing it. But I think what you'll find is that when you're spiritually challenged, you will actually mature, and you will find that you lack for nothing.

That's my That's going to be my hypothesis in this fun social experiment. So, Zachary, you call us back and let us know how it goes. But, I I think there's there's room to tithe. I mean, you read about the the widow giving her last pennies.

You are concerned about tithing the 10%

because you feel it's going to slow you down in these other areas. And then we dig into the Baby Steps 4, and we recommend 15%

of your income towards retirement, and you're doing 27%. So, there is fear driving all of this. You are afraid if I tithe, I won't be able to do as much as I'd like to do over here.

And we've got a tried-and-true system, and we say 15% is enough, and George can run through the investment calculator all day long till he's blue in the face.

So, what we're getting out of this is is that you're really afraid.

And fear is not a good driver for any decision. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, no, that's fair. There is definitely some anxiety of like currently given like I said both 1,500 a year. Here's what I want you to do, extra homework. Okay, George George gave you some verses. I want you to do a little Bible study tonight or tomorrow while it's fresh on worry.

What does the Bible say about worry? Be anxious for nothing. That one comes to mind. >> Ooh, George, you are all over it today.

I mean, you you got you you pulled up a concordance over there. >> I got my concord. I love a concord.

>> could play a keyboard, I would have noodled underneath of you while you were See, you can play the keys, can't you?

>> I can hit a nice chord. You'd be you'd you'd I can fake it. Well, if I put an acoustic guitar on you, you could have uh There we go. We can >> you call that? >> altar call? No, it's if if noodling is on the keys, what's the What do you call the equivalent? Ah, don't quiz me on that. >> Strumming? Strum while I preach? All right. Speaking of Speaking of preaching. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [cheering] >> The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to actually [music] be part of the show. Ask your burning question live.

>> Finally win that money argument in your house. [music] If my mom occasionally asked us to borrow money. >> That's a no all the way around. I'm a spender, [music] he's a saver. >> I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known. You do a pre-pre-nup? What's a pre-pre-nup? I don't know. I thought there'd be something. [laughter] The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you.

>> There's always something you can do to better your situation.

>> We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

I'm really, really proud of you. It's awesome. >> That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

The Ramsey [music] Show Live, one night only, coming to a city near you.

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## 71. Focused Intensity Is The Only Way To Make Financial Progress | November 19, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm George Camel, joined by my pal Dr.

John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

You jump in, we'll talk about your money and your life. Cassandra kicks [music] us off in Toronto. What's going on, Cassandra?

>> Hello, gentlemen. How are you today?

>> We are doing great. What ails you today?

How can we help?

>> Nothing ails me. Um, I am a domestic

abuse survivor. Um, and it was uh

majority was financial abuse.

So, >> how long ago was this?

>> Six years. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It was the scariest best thing I

ever did for me and my three children

>> to get to leave get out of that mess.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it was um Yeah. Thank you. you know, I I started with nothing and I've built everything and now um I

it's kind of crazy to call in about this. I'm making about $8,000 a month.

>> Congratulations. >> And thank you. Honestly, I work

full-time. I go to school full-time and I'm a single mom. So, you just keep going, you know. you're like it's it you're at a place if you if you haven't already take a moment and just go outside >> and um just like be proud of yourself

because you couldn't have imagined this six years ago when you were scared to death and you were taking a leap into nothingness, right? And so >> yeah, >> man, it's you're a you're a lighthouse for other women trapped in similar situations. So congratulations.

>> Thank thank you very much. So my challenge right now is I want to give my

kids the world. I've been um about two

years ago I realized that I wanted to change family patterns. You know, both of my parents are in their 60s and they don't have anything and there's so much debt and so in the last two years I paid

off about $40,000 worth of debt.

>> Very cool. Awesome.

>> Thank you. And um I'm trying now the

last thing is my car. I owe about 17.

It's worth about 20. Um so I'm trying to

maintain a budget and stay on budget,

but I want to give my kids everything, right? Everything we didn't have, everything, you know, everything I'm fighting for. >> You have to. >> You have. >> Yeah. >> No, no, no, no.

>> You have.

You've given them everything. And everything is not a bunch of presents under the tree.

Everything is a mom who is well.

Everything is a mom who is like doing

the next right thing for the stability and safety of herself and for her family. You've given them everything.

You just have to be able to look in the mirror and say, "I'm enough.

Right. >> I know. Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's it's hard. There's so much emotion

around money >> and I just can't. And then it doesn't matter how >> hard I'm fighting. It just feels like it's never enough. The economy is so hard. >> Stop fighting. Stop fighting. Stop fighting. Stop fighting. Stop fighting. You have a picture of they're going to be happier when you have a bunch of stuff under that tree, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that stuff under the tree for

you as a little girl was a proxy for a

house that wasn't so full of chaos and so full of angst around money around whatever. And you thought if I could have those things under the tree, if I could have that toy I don't have that shirt that I don't I can't afford or my parents can't afford or won't buy me that then I'll be okay. Those presents are a proxy for [sighs] we have a house full of peace, which is is something that every child is so so desperate for. And you've given it to them.

They have it. They have everything.

They've got a regulated mom. They don't have their dad in their life, right? Cuz he walked away, but when it comes to the

ability to breathe in their own home, you've given them that.

I'm so proud of you. I can I can I I'd hug you if you're here. What do you actually want to give them? Cuz everything is a big vague word. The economy is a big vague word. You're using impossible terms. So, what's the budget you want to use for Christmas to buy some gifts?

>> Like last year it was ridicul. I think it was like $500 a kid. And then this year, you

know, I'm just really I really want to make change and make waves. And that involves sacrifice. And so I've cut it down to like $250, but it just seems

like >> How old are the kids?

>> Um 15, 10, and nine.

>> All right, so I want to tell you something. I grew up with not a lot.

Okay, in fact, somebody one time a family broke into or several families broke into our house and put presents under our tree. Okay, that's the house I grew up in.

When I joined this team and my financial

life transformed, I did the I went I'm I'm ahead of you a little bit. Okay. I went crazy when it came to Christmas.

>> Yeah. >> And it was my wife saying like, "Hey, we got to stop." Right. And so last uh two

years ago, I took my son out. He's 15 now. So he was 13 at the time. And I took him out and said, "Hey, I have gotten out of control of Christmas.

Christmas is going to look different this year. You're going to get two or three really nice things that and I want you to give me a list, right? And I'll do what I can on the little knick-knack things, but it's going to look different. And you know what my 13-year-old said to me over breakfast at a Waffle House in rural Tennessee? You know what he said to me? He smiled and said, "That's awesome, Dad. I don't think you can."

And he already knew, "Oh, that's buying a bunch of stuff for him, not for us." He already knew. He's a He's a teenager.

He was an eighth grader. And he already could sense all these presents are for old men, not for us. Now, he's going to take my stuff. He's going to take all the cool stuff.

That's cool. But you taking your 15-year-old out. I mean, you're you're all three of them out and saying, "I've been scratching and clawing, and I have this fantasy in my head that y'all will only like me if there's tons of presents. I've got to be a better steward of this money this year.

But Christmas is going to look different this year. And I'm almost going to guarantee you that they'll they'll be like, "Mom, we're good. We're good, Mom." And if they don't, if they're like, "That's ridiculous." Well, they're 13. Good grief.

They're supposed to say stuff like that. You get you get what I'm saying? And they have no concept of what things cost. And so that's another piece of the puzzle.

For better and for worse, they go, "Well, I want a PS5 and I want, you know, a $10 pair of shoes." You're like, "Okay, well, those aren't two things that go together." And so I would set a budget and that becomes how much we can spend on Christmas. And so it doesn't matter what they want. It's what you can actually afford that dictates what happens this Christmas.

I saw a great video and the mom asked her daughter, "Hey, what did you get for Christmas last year?" The daughter blinked. She couldn't think of one thing. And she said, "Where did we go on vacation last year?" He said, "Like Tahoe." Immediately. And so you've got to think in terms of what are they going to remember?

It's probably not a thing that's going to end up in a closet or at Goodwill 6 months from now or two years from now.

And you free yourself when you take your kids out and you have this conversation with them. You're free because you're right now there's a cloud. There's a secret that you think they will only

feel good if you do X, Y, and Z. Take them out and just paint them a picture. This year I'm going to be different. and give them that opportunity. But in that in in in that conversation, you're going to free yourself. Ah, and like George said, can

most kids >> uh we'll run up on a Yeah, we'll run up on a clock. So, um, go have that hard conversation, have it direct, and free yourself.

[music]

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[music]

Bri is in Phoenix. Up next, Bri, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. What's going on?

You know, I guess I'm looking to find out if I made a dumb house decision or if I'm house poor. Um I am newer to the

Ramsay show and doing a budget and I

feel like I don't have enough money uh to do what I want, of course, but I um

you know, it seems like there's just not enough money at the end of the month.

>> That's a real problem. What do you make?

>> I make yearly. I make good money. I think I make 120.

>> Yeah, that's good money where I come from. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And what's your take home pay every month?

>> Yeah. Take home's not as good. Obviously, I put 401k money and stuff, but in my benefits and but I I take home my base salary is 5,400 a month that I bring home. >> Okay.

>> And my commissions range so much. That's the that's the hard thing. I'm having a hard time doing the budget. I'm newer to the budget, but it could be anywhere from a thou like this month I got $1,000.

For six or five months I didn't get any at all. >> Okay, let's pretend that's gravy on top.

>> Uh so what is your mortgage? >> What do I want to do?

>> 2,000 a month.

>> Okay, that's not out of control. I mean, it's a it's a big portion of your base take-home, but we're not going to factor in your 401k contributions into that.

And so if you just look at your after tax income but before other deductions like healthare 401k the parameter we use

is 25%.

>> And so I don't think it's just the mortgage alone doing this. I think there's some other factors here uh including other debt. Do you have any other consumer debt? >> Yes. >> Yes. I have um well, all right, I have $300 as the HOA a month, which is a lot, I think. But um I have a car loan that's

$500.

I have about $40,000 in consumer debt,

like credit cards and a like a loan that I consolidated. >> Okay, >> 40,000.

>> So, let's let's picture this world for Bri. Let's say that you got rid of all of the consumer debt, the car loan, the credit cards, all of that, the consolidation loan. Do you think you could breathe easier, cover all your bills, and have some leftover?

>> You even saying that makes me feel better. >> Good. That's a world That's a world that's very much available to you. It's at your fingertips here if you just utilize this great income you have and start focusing on one thing instead of seven good things. Cuz, you know, investing for retirement is a great thing. Paying off debt is a great thing.

Owning a home is a great thing. You've chosen to do it all at once, which is why you feel overwhelmed.

Mhm. >> So, let's just picture you pausing your 401k contributions. What percentage of your income are you currently contributing?

>> I think I lowered it to six. It was 10.

>> Okay. Well, that's $7,200 a year that could be going towards paying down that debt.

>> You see what I just did there?

>> Yep. Yes. >> We just created some margin for Bri. And remember, this is temporary. How old are you?

>> I'm almost 60. >> Okay. So, can we picture Bri on her 62nd

birthday completely debtree now maxing

out retirement instead of having to ratchet it down?

>> Yeah, I could picture that.

>> That's the future I'm I'm seeing as well. And so what this looks like is taking down your 401k, cutting your spending to the bone for 18 months max is what I'm thinking. Probably less cuz you have a great income, especially with those bonuses. If you pretend those bonuses don't exist and anytime it comes in, you throw it right at the debt, the smallest debt in front of you, you're going to be debtree really quickly.

Agreed. >> Wow. Well, it sounds good coming from you. [laughter] >> I'm a good salesman.

I guess >> sounds so good. >> It's your life. I'm just pointing I have all the puzzle pieces in front of me and I'm going, "Hey, if you just move this over here, you could be debtree pretty fast." And that's the debt snowball method. That's going, "Hey, we're not going to contribute to retirement.

We're going to take our savings down to a,000 bucks. We're going to throw everything we can at our smallest debt. Once it's knocked out, throw everything we can at the next smallest debt while making minimums on the rest of the debts. And if you do it that way, I'm telling you, you will be debtree in 12 to 18 months making what you make.

>> Oh my god. Wow. I never even thought I'd get through on the call. I'm so excited to talk to you and that you did you just made me feel better cuz Yeah.

Now I feel stupid cuz I I stupid people don't get paid $120,000 break. >> I know. I'm so proud of that. Hard to get up to that.

>> I do too. I do too.

>> But listen, I want you I want you to hear what George said. >> We don't care about the interest rates.

>> We don't care about the the shame you

feel on one thing versus the other.

We're going to take every debt you have.

And in fact, I don't want you to do it on a computer. I want you to go old school and put on a yellow pad.

>> Write down everybody you owe in the world. parents, friends, banks, car

notes, the the consolidation loan, all of them. Write it down in in smallest to largest.

And then we're just going to attack it.

This is in your case, this is 95% psychology.

>> Oh my gosh. So, I did get it that way with the 40 the credit card or whatever it is. It's it's all together. That's one bill and then the car is another.

So, would I when I get these bonuses, bang, which one out? the one that >> doesn't whatever one is lowest.

>> Whatever the smallest balance is, it's the only number you're looking at. >> It's the only one you care about.

>> Wow. >> And we're going to And here's what you're going to get. You're going to get a whole bunch of little wins.

And if you have one big giant chunk at the end, like you have the big $40,000

like cloud hanging over your head, >> here's what we're going to celebrate.

Every time you get that first number from 40 and you get it to $399.99,

that's a huge win. And then we're just going to try to get a two in front.

$299.99 and we're going to whittle that sucker down. The only question you need to ask yourself is this. You're going to be 62.

Okay. >> Do you want to be 62? I'm sure and listen. Yeah, that's fair. Um and owe nobody anything or do you want to be 62

a little more fried than you are right now? That's the choice. >> No, I want to be free and yeah, I work hard for my money and I want to celebrate myself. Never mind. You know what I mean? I have >> Celebrate yourself, not with another shiny thing you can't afford. Celebrate yourself with peace and freedom, which I think are the two most elusive things in American households today.

>> Thank you guys. I appreciate it. I really do. >> Okay, hang on. We're going to hook you up. We're going to hook you up. And I feel >> we're going to we're going to take care of you. Here's what we're going to send you. Number one, we're going to send you the digital FPU product. I want you to watch all nine videos at your house. And if you got kids still living with you, they have to watch it as a part of their rent. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> We're going to send them >> Thank you. That's awesome.

>> Oh, we're not done. I'm sending you more. You ready? >> I'm going to give you >> I love you.

>> George and I are going to give you a year of every dollar premium. It's a budgeting app >> and it's going to connect with your bank. >> So, you already have >> I have the regular one, but no, not that one. >> Upgrade.

We're upgrading you, okay? And we're going to pay for it. >> Thank you. But you got to promise that you will cut your spinning down to where people are going to think you're slowly losing your marbles.

>> I I love it. And I love a challenge.

>> I love it. I really do. And And my youngest son is He started it, too. And he's doing so good. He's doing better than me. And I'm in Beard. He's 21. He's 20 22 actually. I'm so proud of him for

doing it. So proud of him.

>> Let him see his mom do something like

radically hard for the next 18 months.

and that he will never My mom went back

and took her first community college class at the age of 42 and she graduated with her PhD at 57. You know what that did for me? It took away every excuse I could ever have in my life ever for I'm

too old. I can't change. I'm setting my way. She took it all off the table. And that's what you'll do for your son. You will show him in real time there is never the words I can't. That cannot be a part of his vocabulary because I watched my mom do it.

And that's all I care about is making my kids proud. I know they are proud of me.

>> This is changing your family tree right here in real time. >> Makes me feel ashamed. Yes. So, >> well, you got a built-in accountability partner now. >> So, he's watching. You're watching what he's doing. He's watching what you're doing. And that's the best thing. >> Will you make me one more promise?

>> Yes, I will. >> That when you pay off these debts and you're debtree, you'll call back in and we'll celebrate you. We'll do a debtree scream. >> Bet you. You bet. I I I will go right there so I can get in the booth.

>> I love it. All right. Hang on the line. We're going to Christian's um on the line here. He's going to hook you up with this stuff. >> I'm marking my calendar, Bri. 18 months from now, I'm going to be like, "Hey, Bri, you debtree yet? Where you at, Bri?

We got any more payments?" And I think the answer is going to be, "I've been debtree, dude. I've been done with this stuff. I got the emergency fund. I'm maxing out retirement." That's the future we want for Bri.

And I think you're going to get there. Proud of you for calling in. Love to see that kind of transformation. And in five minutes, your whole attitude just changed.

So imagine what the five months are going to look like as you actually implement this stuff. You're going to be like a live wire.

path to debt freedom. Thanks for calling in.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

Nick is in Charlotte, North Carolina up next. What's going on, Nick? How can we help today? >> Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for having me on. >> Absolutely. >> Hey, so um there's a lot of backstory,

but married 13 years. I have three children, uh seven, four, and one. Um my

wife and I, we've been through a lot um with medical orals. It's led to um I

took on finances and um ended up kind of

drowning a bit. Um I did not disclose to her that we were in financial trouble um and thought I could work my way out of it. Um I'm in sales. My net monthly

income um is roughly $7,500.

We are currently in about $100,000 of

debt, consumer debt that consists of two personal loans, um, two auto loans and a

student loan. Um, I've been hemorrhaging

somewhere between5 to $7,000 a month cuz

I've not been able to have an honest conversation with my wife to disclose what's going on. So, we haven't changed our spending patterns. on Friday of last week, um God broke me and I surrender

surrendered it to him. Um I disclosed everything to her and um finally was

open and honest. Um she was incredibly gracious. But now as we are trying to restore, rebuild um and rejuvenate our

relationship um which has been an incredible couple of days. We do find ourselves in a crisis. Uh, we met with a Christian financial adviser last night who recommended a home equity line of credit to swap the $100,000 in um, consumer

debt to the home equity line of credit.

Um, we owe 330 on our house. It's worth about 530. Um, so to keep that 80% that

would get us to roughly the 100,000 to pay off the consumer. And then um, we are flipping our spending upside down.

We believe in the baby baby step approach. We're going to be pursuing that aggressively, but we wanted to know

our options. Is the only option to do this heliloc, potentially sell our house when the market is better in the, you know, summer spring um and have that paid off and be debtree uh and rent a home. Do we need to put the house for sale immediately uh and take that route or are there other strategies that you all would implement and recommend given

um the context of what I just outlined?

>> All right. So, George George is going to walk you through the money side of this and he's going to give you a super clear path. Okay? But I want you to hear me um

crystal clear also. Okay.

>> Okay. >> The chief emergency in your life

>> is not the debt.

>> Yes. >> The chief emergency in your life is what

I what I would call financial infidelity. You cheated on your wife.

Okay. And so the chief emergency in your in your in your life right now is restoring trust.

>> Yes. >> It's not and and here there's I'm going to parse it. It's not trying to make everything all okay and take away any more pain, frustration, fear in her

right away. It is restoring trust.

>> Absolutely. >> And when we when men of character like me, like you find ourselves, we have become somebody we never meant to be.

I've been down this road in my marriage, too. Okay.

The temptation is to run around and spend a whole bunch of energy trying to make everybody feel okay right now. And that gets us right back into yet another problem or two problems. Usually, we make it worse.

And so, the path you need to take now is yes, you'll have to deal with this debt emergency. It's a big big deal. But more

importantly is you have to bring your wife as a part of this brokenness and this submission that you that you mentioned. It is asking your wife what

does a path back to trust look like?

And not you now running around and almost shutting her to the side or bringing her along, but more dragging her along and saying, "I I'm going to

fix this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go to this. We're going to meet with this guy. I'm going to talk." It's saying, "What do you need to begin to feel safe and trust me again?" Okay, that's that is step number one.

That's the the the big neon sign flashing emergency in your life right now is restoration of trust. And then

it's probably going to be something along the lines of I want to have a budget meeting with you. I want to know where all our accounts are. Here's where our retirement is. Here's the account numbers.

Here's how to access it. Here's my cell phone. all those kind of things that reestablish trust at the step by step. I I'll call it the micro level that rebuilds a foundation that both of you can anchor into to go do what's going to be a couple of years of really hard work.

Okay, does that make sense what I'm saying? >> It does. >> Okay.

this from you and actually I tried to do a noble thing which is protect you, keep you safe, not worry you and in so doing I created a big big mess. And so here it is. It's on the table. You've done that.

I would hug you if you were here. Most men don't have the courage to do that. What you did was brave and good and right. And now it is realizing that the

healing process is going to be slower than you want it to be. And on the back end of this, your marriage will be so much stronger than you could have ever possibly imagined it. And you will be a man of character, not only in your words, but in in the actions. And she

will be able to anchor fully back into you. And you and vice versa. You get what I'm saying? >> I do. we are already seeing that already the just brokenness between the two of us which has been >> that's right >> um which has been beautiful so I appreciate you saying that and I >> hey part of this is and this is unpopular to say you addressing

what might also be an elephant in the room which is maybe she wasn't the safest person to sit down and talk about finances with maybe y'all were creating a dance where she didn't want to hear it or she wants to buy what she wants to buy and then so you're trying to solve it and you're trying to fix it and you're coming up with the scheme over here and doing it.

Who knows what the what the dance in your marriage is, but this allows that to all get put on the table over time.

>> Sure. Okay. Unless you're just a terrible, terrible human, which I'm not hearing at all. These things don't happen in a vacuum. They're co-created by two people in a marriage. And that's all that has to be put on the table. And if you just run out tomorrow and sell your house, you might band-aid over the math problem y'all have in front of you, but the problems in your marriage about trust and safety and do do we both relax

when we both see each other when we come home? That doesn't that just gets wallpapered over and it will show up somewhere else down the road. It it more magnified, right? Okay. So, >> George is going to walk you through this stuff. >> My uh burning commentary is on this Christian financial adviser. >> Yeah. Never talk to that person again. Ever. Ever. >> Listen, God loves all of his children.

They're made perfect in in his image and some of their cornbread's not done in the middle. [laughter] And so what he has suggested of you dumping dirty water into another vessel doesn't actually

solve the problem. Would you agree?

>> I don't love it. Uh I'm just >> What do you love about it? Cuz you're just moving the debt around and putting your home at double risk. >> Yeah. You you now took the the only safe place you and your wife have left and you've leveraged that >> and you made it into one giant pile that's even harder to pay off with a variable interest rate.

>> Yeah. So being underwater $5 to $7,000 a

month. And >> yeah, explain what what do you mean by you're hemorrhaging $7,000 a month. What does that mean? >> Well, a lot of that has to do with spending habits. So if we >> which has nothing to do with the debt and so that's what I'm trying to get at is Are you investing a dime right now?

uh 401k out of my paycheck.

>> And he didn't advise you to stop investing to get rid of the mess. >> He did. He did. Yeah, he he he did stop

he did recommend stop. >> Okay. So, if you paused all investing, you guys lived on nothing. Can you What's your mortgage payment?

>> Uh $2,82 a month. >> Okay, that's not the problem here. You can keep the house. What you need to do is use this income, pause your 401k investments, make sure you're not getting a refund on your taxes. You need that money back in your paycheck. Can you live off of $3,400 a month?

[gasps] >> Um, >> I'm just gonna show you the math. If you were able to do that, >> so if you've got math, then please show me. >> Here's the math. You make 90,000 net, right? If you stop investing, you're going to have even more. Probably closer to 100,000 net. If you put 50 of that towards your debt, you're debtree in two years. >> Tada. >> See the napkin math there?

>> Which leaves 40 or 50 to live off of.

Now, I don't know if that's reasonable to have your mortgage, your four walls covered, insurance, and minimum debt payments on that side, but >> but be unreasonable for 24 months.

>> Yeah, I think this is this could all be solved by you guys living like you're broke because news flash, you're broke.

So, it's an easy problem to solve when you make $100,000 net. You can knock this out in 2 years without taking on more debt just by doing that debt snowball method. If you say you believe in the baby steps approach, try it. Try it for a year.

If you don't make progress and you want to go take out more debt, then you can be my guest. But I'm telling you, man, you can be debtree in under two years if you follow this stuff, and your marriage is going to be better for it.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

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Start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Kristen is in Buffalo, New York.

Up next. What's going on, Kristen?

>> Hi guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um I just have a question that I I think is pretty simple. Um my husband and I have paid off all of our debts except for we have his student loan. It's the last one. It's $63,000.

Um and it's in income driven repayment with a current monthly, you know,

payment of zero.

And we're thinking we'd like to refinance it to kind of force ourselves

to have to pay it. Um, I know that's like a weird mind like Jedi mind trick that we want to do, but um we're wondering if we're crazy if we should just pay through the student loan um

lender, which two of the loans, it's one loan, but there's four small ones. Um, two are 10,000, two are 20,000. A couple

of them have 5.2% interest and a couple have six. And with the with refinancing

or a personal loan to pay them, the interest would be higher. So, what good would refinancing do at this point?

>> It would I feel like it just kind loan just kind of hangs out there and and [clears throat] we have two goals. One is to be debtree, the other is to buy a home. Um, currently we know that because it's we've been told, you know, through our mortgage preapproval that the student loan isn't affecting our preapproval because it's a minimum payment of zero.

>> Okay. But um so we're kind of at this

this point where we know we need to buy a home eventually. Um but we also want

to kind of force ourselves to not just let this loan be sitting in the background just because even though it's accumulating interest the payment zero.

So >> we have a trusted Ramsay Pro who kind of said because of our ages it doesn't you know it would be okay to kind of be saving for a down payment and paying off this debt. Um >> how much do you guys make?

Total about 120 to 128 a year.

>> Okay. So, this debt could be gone in a year if you just hunkered down.

>> Yeah, we have about um 5,000 extra a month we could be putting on this debt.

>> So, the math they just laid out is perfectly there. 5,000 a month for 12 months, 60 grand. >> Yeah. >> So, the loan is done in 12 months. And that's without you guys. I mean, you could probably even scratch up a little more money, spend a little less, and make it happen faster, couldn't you?

>> For sure. Yep.

That's the plan is to move through it.

>> Trust myself. [laughter] >> Why don't you trust yourself?

>> Um, well, this loan is kind of not interfering with us.

>> But it is, but you're calling you're calling a national radio show to talk about this loan. I would say it's very much living in your head rentree.

>> Oh, it's totally living in my head. But we're also worried. What if the right house comes up and then >> listen, you guys jumped the gun trying to home shop with $63,000 of loans sitting on the other side? That loan isn't going away. In fact, the interest is just adding to it. And that loan isn't going away. So, it's it would light an extra fire under me to start making payments, not, you know, $0, not

$100, but $5,000 a month payments on this to knock it out in the next 12 months. >> We definitely have that fire. I'm just worried. What if something What if something happens and I don't have that fire? Six months. >> It's not a soulmate. It's a house.

There's going to be more of them a year from now. >> No, I don't mean I don't mean the house.

I mean the payment on the loan. >> Okay. Okay. >> Right now, we have the fire.

>> Let me let me say it this way. If you wait for motivation to do anything, if you wait for a quote unquote fire,

whatever you're aiming for, you'll never you'll never get all the way there.

>> I agree with you, John. That's what that's kind of what I'm asking. If we refinance this to our credit union, no.

>> Now that loan is sitting in our bank and we have to look at it every day and I think >> So you're trying to make it more difficult to make you more scared of it to make you pay it.

>> That's exactly what I'm trying to untrustworthy person. [laughter] >> You sound trustworthy.

>> You [snorts] I trust in the show for 20 years and I have been in and out of debt many times and we're finally on there the right track. You've been in and out to where you don't even trust yourself to pay off this debt because you go, "Well, Kristen's not the kind of person who just pays off debt and stays out of debt." >> So, here's the thing. It's going to be a trust exercise. >> You need 12 months. You need this.

>> How much do you guys have saved right now?

>> Not a lot. We only have about 5,000 saved. >> Okay. And how old are you, too?

>> I'm 41. He's 53.

>> Okay. Picture like 10-year-old Kristen.

If you said, "Hey, one day you're going to be making $120,000." And then your 10-year-old self's going to say, "How much money do you have?" And you're going to say, " $5,000."

Don't you think that's wild that you guys worked this hard >> and 60 grand >> making six figures and you have nothing to show for it?

>> Well, we had a lot of debt up until recently. We finally just got here is what I'm saying. And so I'm afraid

I left that >> you're you're like at mile 22 of the marathon and suddenly you're like I don't think I can make it.

>> Just look behind you. Look how far you've come. You for sure can make it.

It sounds like you know what it sounds like you're tired.

>> Here here's the math of it. You have four loans. I love that they're split up. Please do not refinance into one private more expensive loan cuz right now in two months that loan is knocked out. >> Tada. You freed up. You only have three left. Two more months, you knocked out the next smallest. That's another payment freed up that you can add to the next one. Do you see that's going to cause you to trust yourself again when you see that kind of progress and momentum?

>> I don't know. I guess so. Yes.

>> Listen, [laughter] in in somewhere big and bold in your home, Christmas of 2026, y'all are going to go somewhere awesome because you're not going to owe anybody any money.

>> Mhm. and the home is just going to be on a temporary delay.

>> It's not going to happen in 12 months. So, you know what? Don't even look.

Don't even doom scroll Zillow to see what could have been cuz it's You know what? Because right now, Zillow is pornography for you.

>> It is a way to escape

that feeling inside that I'm exhausted.

I'm not where I should be. And I got a hard a hard conversation. I have a hard path ahead of me. I'm just going to offramp it here.

>> Pinterest is pornography right now.

Zillow is pornography right now. Talking to a uh um a real estate agent is an

emotional affair right now.

Just don't just don't concentrate on the one single goal you have, which is we're going to get to zero >> and we'll have done it, >> right? >> You get what I'm saying? You've done so good. >> Yeah, I know that. I knew this question sounded crazy. >> No, it doesn't sound crazy. It just sounds it sounds like you're tired and you're just like, "Hey, should I just um should I just take some performance-enhancing drugs for the last four miles?" And the answer is no.

>> I think it's just that we've done so much better under pressure and we I work better under pressure and we paid off our debt better under pressure. >> All right, let me give you some pressure. >> 24 months ago, would you have bet

anything politically that has happened would have happened?

No. >> No. Okay. So, in 24 months from now,

good God almighty, who knows?

>> Mhm. >> Whether there's going to be no such thing as deferment anymore. I'm just making stuff up. Whether they're going to demand all of the interest in a lump sum payment or put you in jail, I don't know. And you don't know, >> right? >> There is a ton of pressure on you right now.

>> Okay? And if you want pressure, imagine there's a $5,000 minimum payment due on these loans. Or just switch out of R completely to a standard repayment plan if you're begging for a normal payment.

They'll give you one.

>> You don't mean that, do you?

>> Yeah. Well, you're calling us asking you. I don't feel the pressure cuz it's $0. Okay. Well, you can switch to a standard repayment plan where it's $400, $500. But I'm telling you, you can just imagine there's a $5,000 minimum payment or else someone's going to come knocking on your door if you need that manufactured pressure in order to do this plan. >> I don't think you need it.

>> I don't. I just think you're tired. I think you want a house.

>> Yeah. >> And I think you're so close to the finish line here on this on this part of your trip. >> And I think you're frustrated and you have some shame and guilt because of the past decisions that have led you to have this delay dream of home ownership. And that's a very normal thing. That's not crazy. That's normal in America today.

For better and worse, it's normal. And so, I would put the shame and guilt down and go, "We make amazing money. We're going to put it to good use. We're going to be out of this thing a year from now, and we're going to have the rest of our lives debtree, and we're going to be homeowners one day." >> The Christmas present y'all buy each other this year is to get rid of that first student loan.

>> Love that. >> That's a great present for both of you.

>> Make a little card if you want to add some to it.

>> [music] [screaming]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at88255225.

Sarah is in Columbia, South Carolina up next. What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hi. Um, my question is that I am in the

process of trying to leave an abusive marriage. Um, but I have a lot of debt.

Um, and I'm trying to figure out what I need to prioritize as far as my money in order to make a safe exit.

>> Do you all have a bunch of debt or do you have debt?

>> Um, both.

>> Okay, >> we do. >> I think right now your chief the the the

most important thing for you is to get to a safe place.

>> Yeah, I I physically I feel physically safe. Um, but there's just a lot. I do.

>> Okay. Then I would create your own checking account to have your check deposit into it deposited into it for the time being. >> And we're going to go into store mode because you're going to need cash, >> right? >> And you're going to take care of your four walls. >> So that means making minimum debt payments on anything that's yours. Is is everything co-signed for? Are you both on each day? Um, so we are, um,

let's see, the car is mine. I have a

student loan. Um, and the rest of it is like credit cards and personal loans.

And that's kind of both. Well, and even if you if y'all

or if if he quote unquote bought a car and both of y'all's income went into a pot and y'all paid that car off, >> he may have some that he owes you to help pay off your car. All that said, that's for the lawyers to figure out

>> because the debts are going to get parsed out. The um what y'all the assets y'all have are going to get parsed out.

That's that's just that's the fight.

Does does your spouse know you're you're about to file?

>> So, we've had um a big discussion

um and it isn't really going over well

um but he's aware and I do have a lawyer

and um thank goodness I have a family member that has paid my retainer.

>> Okay. >> Um for that um but yeah, he's aware.

Yeah. Let let the attorneys work for

you.

>> Okay. >> If y'all were able to have a big conversation, which almost never happens when there's an abusive spouse where everybody goes, "You're right.

>> Here's my piece. Here's your piece.

Let's shake hands and go down to the courthouse for $300 and file the paperwork on our own and be adults." Um, but y'all wouldn't you wouldn't be in the situation if you weren't in an abusive, unsafe situation. So, wanting that to happen, it's not going to happen. Um Dave gave me a quote one time that I loved. The moment somebody files divorce, it is now a it's now a business

transaction.

>> And that's how we're going to treat it. And we're going to let the people who are trained to um do business transactions, which is the attorneys, do that stuff.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. And I I've tried that. I've tried

to be as, you know, strong as possible and, you know, not engage. Not engage.

Not engage. >> Yeah. Um, and he just he's very emotional about it. >> That's right. >> Let your husband say all the wild stuff,

every all keep every text message, keep all the emails. I'm going to take you for everything. You're going to all that stuff. Fine. Your goal now is to take

care of you.

>> Do you have groceries? Do you have a place to stay? Are you able to make your minimum payments? And we're going to go from there. >> Okay. >> What do you make?

>> So, I make um I just started a new job.

I make around 120, which is a great income. >> Amazing. And the debts that are tied to your name, either joint or solo, what does that add up to?

>> Um about

almost 70. >> Okay. What's the car worth that's in your name?

>> Um I'm not sure what it's worth. It has 15 left on the loan.

>> Okay. I'm just wondering if you get to a tight spot and you could sell that and downgrade or borrow a car from a family member for now. That might be a good move to get you to some better financial footing. >> But I love the idea of you going today creating your own checking and savings account, not connected to the bank that you're currently with with your husband and starting basically your new financial life right now >> to protect yourself and let allowing that direct deposit to go there.

And like John said, just stack up cash, make minimum payments on the debt, don't get behind on it, don't let it go to collections. But then once the divorce settles, you'll know as the dust clears which debts you're going to be owing on, what you could do, and you'll have a pile of cash to help you get that kick started. >> Okay.

>> Um, I'm a nurse practitioner.

>> I was just thinking nurse. So, his attorney, if he or she is worth their salt, is going to make a claim that he put you through nursing school and so that you get he should get a part of that. So, all that stuff like it's it's not going to come out clean. It's gonna be a mess, >> right? >> Divorce is a mess. But we're trying to get from here to there. And from here to there is don't make any wild purchases.

Don't overstress with when he start like

try your best to retain your emotional

sanity as he throws whatever grenade he's going to throw. >> So sorry you're going through this. >> Yeah, I hate it for you. All right, let's go out to Rachel up next in Atlanta. What's going on, Rachel?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's your question? Um and actually, okay, so um my parents are

aging and um they have Alzheimer's and dementia. And so we are beginning to look at like long-term care facilities, assisted living, that kind of thing. And we know that we're going to need to liquidate their assets in order to pay for this, right? And we know we have their house, they have some annuities, my mom has some stock in AT&T. And so

what I really need advice on is what kind of professional would I need to seek out to help me combine all these

tiny little accounts into one big account that would be liquid enough to pay for a facility.

>> So you're trying to piece these puzzle

pieces together to go, okay, we have all these random things out here. How do we basically sell off any assets and create a cash account in like a high yield savings or money market that we can use to fund the rest of their care?

>> Right. Yeah. >> Well, [clears throat] the the issue that I would see is you're going to need financial power of attorney to make any financial decisions on their behalf, >> right? >> And so that would depend on >> I pretty much have that um we set up a living trust. >> Okay. And um I am one of the trustees,

but the way they worded the power of attorney, basically each of my parents would have to quote resign as a trustee in order for me to be able to completely take over. Um I am working on getting

them to do that, but it is a slow process because there is a lot of pride and a lot of denial. >> Well, do they have clinical diagnostics

around their dementia?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Then that in and of itself may

preclude them from being able to sign off. >> That's my fear. If if they don't have the capacity mentally where they go, "Yeah, they can sign off on this. They know exactly what they're doing." The courts won't sign off on it.

>> But if you have medical power of attorney, then that's when you step in to make decisions for somebody who's unable to make decisions for themsel.

>> Okay? And

it's a nightmare because you're Yeah.

You're going to find yourself trying to do the best you can to love and honor your parents well and in their diminishing cognitive capacity, you're going to become the biggest target, the biggest enemy to them.

>> Yeah. [music] And you just >> I hope you're wrong in that, but I >> I know. I know. I've just sat with too many people whose parents have dementia and they feel like they're getting hit on one side by insurance companies and care facilities and on the other side getting hit by the person they love the most who is a scared, terrified parent,

watching their ability to function slip through their own fingers. And it just it's [music] the it's the worst. It's a nightmare. So, it's just getting yourself if you're married, you've got brothers and sisters, y'all stealing yourself for the coming storm.

But yeah, if they already have been diagnosed with dementia or Alzheimer's,

then [music] I don't think they can even sign off on anything moving forward.

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All right, John. We're going to play a little game. Where are they now? We often take calls and then we just That's it. We'll never talk to them again.

>> Okay. I thought you were talking about like one of your ex-girlfriends from middle school or something. [laughter] All right. >> She lives here now. No, that would be hilarious and awful at the same time.

No, this is a call from Skyler that you and I took back in February of 2025, this year. And she had made some mistakes in college. Moved in with her parents as a single mom. Her parents then wanted her to pay to put a mother-in-law suite on the back of their property. She was in baby step two trying to pay off. >> I do remember this call now.

>> So she wanted to communicate to her parents that she didn't want to go into more debt. She got an apartment, was scared to tell them. They were using her to get ahead financially. We told her, "Hey, you got to move out." And she couldn't afford the apartment on her own without her parents helping. So it was a very just toxic codependent situation.

She was working long hours delivering mail. She was scared. And we told her, "Hey, lean into the hard conversations, into the conflict. This is not forever.

This is a season." We gave her some resources and then something magical happened. She reached back out and said, "Hey, I want to update you guys on where I'm at now." >> Oh, I hope she doesn't call and be like, "You ruined my life." >> That's always my fear. I'm hoping we've got good news from Skyler. How you been, Skyler? >> I've been great. How are you guys doing?

>> Good. Good. That's a relief to hear.

Okay, so what is the update? Did you end up moving out?

>> I did. So, I had the conversation with my parents and I pretty much told them I was like, "I can't afford to put a

mother-in-law suite on the back of the property." Um, they pretty much were like, "You," they were just trying to think of a way to help me have my own living space and pretty much be

independent while also being close enough to help me with my son is what the conversation boiled down to.

>> Um, but I found a cheaper apartment, was able to move out. >> Good. >> And I'm actually teaching now.

>> Wow. You have full-time gig, huh?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Making more money.

>> Uh, about the same.

>> Okay. And how's single mom life going?

What's going on with the kiddo?

>> Um, it's better. I am he I'm able to get

him in the elementary school near the high school I work at. And so I could drop him off in the morning. I get to pick him up after school. I get to spend weekends with him, which before when I was working with the post office, I got lucky to see him maybe an hour or two before he went to bed. Wow.

>> And I didn't see him in the morning. >> You got your whole life back. >> It's amazing. >> Yeah. Got a boyfriend, so it works out.

>> A boyfriend entered the picture.

>> Gross. All right. Good for you. Good for you. All right. So I am of the belief

that most of the time, not always, but

most of the time when aging parents come

up with a plan or a scheme,

>> that actually deep down they're trying to help and they open up their toolkit and there's just one or two tools in there. >> And so take me back to that conversation you had with your parents. Did it ruin your relationship with them? Or when they explain themselves, did you realize, oh, y'all are trying, they're actually trying to help in the way they

know how and maybe their generation was just borrow money or just whatever. But tell me about that relation, that conversation, and then tell me about your relationship with your parents now.

>> Um, yeah, that's pretty much how the conversation went. It was they were trying to help me be independent and be

on my own, but still provide the support I needed with working at the post office. Okay.

>> Um, and it was ended up being productive conversation. >> Y'all still talk? Y'all still close?

>> Oh, yeah. Um, my son goes over there on the weekends still cuz he wants to visit his Grammy and Papa. >> Oh, cool. Love it. >> Um, the atmosphere has completely changed where before when I was living there with them, things were tense all the time.

And now that we all have our own space, it's >> way more relaxed and there is no tense.

Oh, yeah. We we threw a bunch of resources at you at the last call.

Financial Peace University, Every Dollar. What's the financial progress been like?

>> Um it it's still steady.

>> Okay. Knocking out some debts in baby step two. Still working through that. >> Uh yes. So when I went through Financial

Peace University and I did all the things, I sat down and looked at everything. Really, I was able I was able to pay off three credit cards at one time. >> Wow. >> Because I didn't realize they were so low.

That's great. You're just looking at the minimum payments just by not ignoring it and not being in denial going, "All right, I'm going to put this on paper, put it in the Every Dollar app, and go, what can I do about this?" And you just went, "I can knock these three out." >> Oh, yeah. Knocked those three out. Um,

right now I'm working on uh obviously I still have three more credit cards, so I'm working on those, getting those down. >> Yeah. How much is left total?

>> Um, on my credit cards? >> Yeah. Total debt that you have left to pay off in in Baby Step 2. Oh, like completely? >> Yeah.

>> 115.

>> So, you got you got you got a journey ahead of you, huh?

>> Yeah, it's uh student loans. Um cuz I

had I went to back to school to get a master's degree and you know, at the time take out a loan was always, you know, >> Did you finish the masters?

>> Oh, yeah. I have my masters in marine biology. >> Okay. And you're using that now to teach or are you not teaching on that subject?

>> Um not teaching yet. I'm hoping to hear back from a job though. >> Very >> awesome. Well, we are rooting for you, Skyler. Appreciate the update. I love to see just how much life has changed for you in nine months just by having some hard conversations and doing some hard things. Skyler, give like So, there are We're heading into the holiday season.

>> Mhm. And one out of three calls of

letters that come into my my show, the John Deloney show, one out of three of those is either like adult, newly adult kids who have

cut off their aging parents or aging parents who are have cut off their kids.

>> And almost always there's one big heavy looming conversation hanging between that relationship. What would you tell the 25year-old, the 27y old, the 22y old

that can't can feels like they can no longer be around their aging parents

um about that conversation? What advice would you give them?

>> Um

well, from my experience, it's you you just have to say it cuz nine times out of 10, it's not as bad as you think it is. I'm a huge overinker and so I had the whole conversation in my head before I even approached my parents about it and that's what scared me into not telling them. >> Ah you you you replayed that imaginary conversation a thousand times huh?

>> Oh yeah like every second I wanted to bring it up that conversation play over again. >> Okay. >> And you know people do change too. Um, if you're with if you know for sure your parents or whoever you have to have that conversation with is making efforts to be a better person, >> they're most like they're more likely going to not react the way that you expect.

>> Gotcha. Well, I'm proud of you for doing that. And and this is what changing your family tree looks like. And um >> Oh, yeah.

>> You're raising a kid that's going to know I can always go to my mom with hard conversations. And uh you're living proof. It's amazing.

Well, thank you. >> It's cool. >> And I appreciate you guys. I used everything you guys gave me and then I shared the books you guys sent me with a friend of mine who needed them to.

>> I love it. The ripple effect continues.

John, >> pass it along. Pass it along. >> There's so many pieces there. You know, we we behind the scenes we talk about the Ramsay Show as being more than about money. It's expanded because we realized half the calls are about relational dysfunction, not about the money thing, which is what they called in about as we dig one layer deeper. or it's about a work thing and a career thing and getting the income up. And this one really hits all three of those buckets.

>> Correct. >> She had a career problem, she had the money problem, and she had the relational problem with the parents. And it's amazing how you can work on all three at once. And there's a domino effect. >> Well, and the underlying the underlying foundation to all those problems is this one uncomfortable truth. You cannot go

around scary things. You can't go around

debt. You can't go around that big hard

scary conversation you need to have with your loved ones one, two, or three times. You can't go around a job that's not working for you and your new kid.

You can't go around it. You got to go right through it. And it doesn't always have a happy ending like Skyler has, right? Um but there's more happy endings

out there if you will just head right through the discomfort. >> Well, most people have predecided, well, here's what's going to happen, so what's the point? or it's the imaginary conversation. I'm going to I'm going to tell George. You're never going to tell George that, right? Like, and then they're going to say that >> it's that kind of rumination is never

>> it's never happy. Uh Bnee Brown calls it dress rehearsing tragedy. You're just you're performing it without actually doing it. Just go. We're heading into holiday season. If you got to have that hard conversation, have it. >> Now's the time. >> If you realize, I can't even afford the Christmas presents I'm about to start buying, then have that reality. go right through the middle of the discomfort.

>> Talk about it at Thanksgiving, not at Christmas in a blowup argument. >> That's exactly right. >> You set the boundary. You set the expectation. And that's really going to create the best life for you. Instead of being resentful, [music] I'd rather you feel a little guilty. That's the best case scenario.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

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Well, John, the old dog has got [music] some new tricks. We've done something different on the Ramsay show and started introducing video calls. So, now we

don't just get to hear from the audience. We get to see their beautiful faces. So, if you want to be a part of that, you've got a question you'd like to submit and you want to be on video, we'd love that. Go to ramseolutions.com/ask.

Let us know your question and in the subject line just put video call so our team knows that you are willing and able to be on video and the experience has been really cool so far. So we'd love more of those video calls. Go to ramseolutions.com/asksubject video call. Looking forward to talking and seeing you guys. All right, let's go to Grace in Jacksonville, Florida up next. Grace, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, I'm sorry I'm really nervous to meet you guys. Um, I am 19. Um, and I

want to know how to best prepare and invest in my future even though I make a low income while having debt and helping my mother pay bills.

>> Wow, that's a lot to take on as a 19-year-old. What kind of debt are you in? >> Um, it's just it's just credit card debt. >> Okay. >> How much?

Um, uh, 3,375.

>> Okay. And what do you make?

>> Um, I work two part-time jobs and a

couple other things on the side, but I still only make about a little less than uh 28,000.

>> 28,000. Okay. And you're are you in school? What's going on on the other side? >> Uh, I am in college. I'm almost done

with my um associates and arts degree

and then I want to go into communications.

Great. Is that part of your undergrad?

>> Um, yes. >> Okay. So, it's a four-year situation.

>> Um, two-year and then I'm going into a two-year university for the uh bachelors. >> Great. Okay. And are you cash flowing that or you going into student loan debt?

>> Um, I don't have any student loans. I It's all financial aid paid for and um I have chapter 35 from my dad being in the military. >> Okay, great. That's one of my goals for you. You're talking about how to invest in myself. It's to avoid student loan debt. Is it a It's a plague among young adults and it's going to propel you forward if you can do this debtree.

>> Okay. >> Now, tell me about mom. What's going on with you helping mom with expenses?

>> Um, so my parents are divorced. Um, so

and I live with my mom, so she's basically a single mother and has been for many a couple years. Um, I use I use

some of the money to help her pay bills up to like 250 to 500 every two weeks.

Um, and that goes to the mortgage on our house as well. Um, so like with that,

the mortgage bills and all of that, I do end up like spending a lot of money.

>> So 500 to a,000 bucks a month is what you're doing out from your take-home pay >> basically. Yeah. And is she is she sitting you down and saying, "I need this money to survive." Or is this you

just trying to pitch in or is this do you pay rent? Like what's the arrangement here?

>> Um it's it's not just it's the first

one. Um like just to like be able to

just get at least get us by.

>> I I I know >> she asked for that. She asked for the help. >> She asking for Yes.

>> Okay. Is she working full-time?

Um, yes. She is a director at a daycare center. >> Okay. Okay. And what does she make? Do you know? >> Um, about 50,000 a year.

>> Okay. And >> it's a brand new job though.

>> Okay. I'm wondering my the future for Grace means I'm You're probably moving out eventually. And so I want to make sure that mom has a sustainable plan versus well, if I don't have Grace's money, I'm going to be broke. >> Well, and here's the problem for you, Grace, is you can't make that choice for her. you can't make that decision for her and ultimately you can't be held responsible for the choices she makes.

And so on the back end of divorce, one

of the hardest conversations I have with people who just got divorced is you cannot >> afford the home y'all have been living in.

And people want to keep everything the same except for the divorce. And the divorce is so painful and it's so messy and yada yada, but we want everything else to stay the same. >> And that's what's one of the hardest conversations. And you as a 19-year-old,

you can't continue to prop up

a bigger, harder decision that your mom needs to make on her own as an adult.

If you want to choose to live there and say, "Hey, I want to start. I want to shift this from, hey, 200 this month. I need 400 for next month. I'm telling you right now, Grace, this is a recipe for resentment. And your mom doesn't deserve that and you don't either. It's getting really clear with I want to come up with a rent number that I pay you every month.

>> Okay? >> You get what I'm saying? And that's you stepping into your 19-year-oldness, your young adulthood, and saying, "I want to begin to clarify my roles and responsibilities in my life." Because you can't make a plan if there's the emotional weight and the reality to, hey, I need a,000 bucks. Hey, I need 500 bucks. Hey, I need 200 bucks over here.

Because here's what you're going to start doing. Rightfully so. Hey, why did you buy that? We didn't need that.

You're going out to eat again. Like, you're going to start these little bitty cracks in your relationship with your mom. And so, I want you to own what you can on your side of that relationship, which is clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity. And like George said, >> Mhm. >> I want you to start considering being in your own apartment by 20. You don't have to, but what would the math look like?

What would you need to do? What would what would the world look like if that was your plan?

>> Um, so we me and my mom actually used to

live in an apartment um and we just moved into a house um because we couldn't afford the rent anymore.

>> So she purchased that home.

>> Um it is with a mortgage. So

>> yeah, she bought it. >> She can't afford that home either. It doesn't sell. >> Yeah. What's the mortgage on it? Do you know? >> Um the monthly or the full like >> the monthly mortgage?

>> Um about uh 1,700.

>> Okay.

Well, can she afford that on her own if you were to move out today?

Because my guess is she's probably bringing home 3,000 something a month.

I don't I don't think she would.

>> So, that's my fear is that this mortgage is over half of her take-home pay and the only reason she could afford it was because you're there helping to prop it up artificially right now.

>> Mhm. >> So, that's going to be part of that hard decision that John said. That's not your responsibility.

That's the sad truth. And so, if she has to end up selling this home because you decide to move out, I don't want you to feel guilty for that.

>> Okay? because then you're going to begin to say, "Well, I can't afford to finish this degree or I can't take this job in this town that they just they want to hire me for because I've got to stay." And it's a it's a it's a counterintuitive way that's going to really cap you and your mom trying to take care of you. You're like, "We're ride or die together." That's a ton of weight for a teenager to carry.

Or let me put it this way. I always tell parents, you can't call your kid your friend until they reach 25 because a a teenager can't carry the weight of an adult friendship and of the full adult responsibilities.

It's a lot.

And I'm not saying you let your mom be destitute, whatever, but she's got to make grown-up decisions. And if she has to get this daycare job and then go from there to working holiday hours at Target or whatever to pay her bills, man, that's hard. And it's it's tough. and she's an adult and she needs to make those math decisions. If she wants to rent out a room to her daughter, awesome. Let's just get that real real real clear.

>> Okay. >> And lastly, Grace, what was the 3,300 bucks in credit card debt for?

>> Um, so, uh, it's actually from my mom.

Um cuz we this was a pre-planned prepaid

thing like from a while ago that my um old school was doing this Europe tour.

Um and so we went because it was like

really cheap to do. It was with a whole uh school education.

>> So you put on the credit card? >> Um yeah, my mom.

>> Okay. >> Then let me tell you this. 3,300 bucks at 29% APR is not cheap. And so if I

were you, I would pay off that credit card, cut it up, freeze your credit, so that you can't make another bad financial decision, especially at 19.

>> And I think I just heard you say something right there at the end of that call. Never, ever, ever, ever let your

mom talk you into borrowing money on your credit, on your social security number, on your credit cards. [music] That is a nightmare recipe. You're setting a precedent. >> Blow up your relationship with her forever. Grace, [music] it's normal to be broke at 19, but it's not normal to have this kind of intertwined financial life with your mother. And so, that's the thing I would caution you against.

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or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Chris is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Chris?

>> Hi, thanks for taking from the bottom of my heart my call.

>> Oh, we're honor. >> Um, I'm calling a you guys are great.

Longtime listener. Wish I would have followed through. Everybody out there, listen to them. It would have been great. >> Thank you. But what I'm what I'm calling

about is there's a long history, but I'm

70 years old. Um I my husband

passed away, my second husband passed away, but with the second husband and well I did I adopted my grandchild

because of situations.

Um eventually because of different things I bought a condo um on my own. Um the condo now is worth

about $425,000.

Um I have social security and other things coming in.

Jacob now the the child is 19 years old

and he is in a an HVAC program which I'm

really proud of him for doing that and he's a good kid but I'm wondering he

kind of wants to venture out and I'm to the point where I kind of want to sell the condo um and I'm wondering I'm wondering if I should sell it and buy him something

um or if I should just stay here and

help rent it out to him and his new girlfriend. But I know, >> you know, I can I can tell by your voice, you know, the answer to all that is no.

>> Why do you feel the pressure

to do something that you don't want to do?

>> I want to make sure that I

You know, his mom is a weward child

>> and I have a daughter who is great, >> but I want to make sure he's taken care of. I want to make sure he has something. I'm 70.

>> Are you paying for this HVAC program?

>> No, the H No, the HVAC program. Um, he

has gotten, you know, some foundations

and everything for it. Um, and I do have

I do have money from um money from his grandfather.

No, I'm not paying for it. It's >> distill down for me what your actual question is. Are you asking should you sell this your home so that you can buy

him a house?

>> Well, the point is I want to make sure

he's taken care of. This h this condo is getting to be a lot for me. >> What What does taking care of mean?

>> Yeah. There's a difference of he's not going to be on the streets to he has a paid for home at 19. >> You adopted him and saved him.

>> He is where he is because of you.

>> I know. I understand. >> Okay. So, you have given him everything.

>> I know. >> And now he's on a on a good path. He's going to be one of these new um blueco collar millionaires that everybody's talking about.

But you know what? I'm to the point where I don't want this condo anymore.

>> Okay, that that's a separate issue.

Disconnect that from from your grandson.

Where do you want to move? Where you going where are you going to live? Cuz you're going to live to be 95.

>> You got 20 more years. >> I hope so. >> Okay. You got 20 more years. He's going to be 40.

>> Where are you going to go? Are you going to go rent somewhere?

>> And that's when I don't know what to do.

I don't know because he's he doesn't want to stay. He he's talking about moving out and if he he's talking about

moving out and him and this girlfriend for 800 bucks a month can afford something. >> Okay. >> And what's wrong with that? >> There's no way.

What's wrong with that is >> you're saying he he can only afford 800 bucks a month >> as a Christian. >> Okay. There we go. That's it. This is a violation of your values, >> right? >> You selling your house and and moving where you want to move is is issue one.

If you don't like this condo anymore, great. But you got to have a place to live. And if you've already paid this thing off and you're not going to something, I would suggest you hang on to this condo because nobody can take it from you. If social security goes belly up in the next 10 years, if social security doesn't keep up with inflation, which it hasn't been. If if if if nobody could take your home from you.

>> Good. >> I know. But part of it is social security. I mean, I've got $42,000

coming in per month.

>> 42,000 per month.

>> Yes. No. Per year. Per year.

>> Okay. I was like, I don't know what kind of social security [laughter] tapped into. >> I want that program. >> My fault. >> So, you got 4,200 of income per per month. You have no debt at all, right?

>> No. You live fairly >> frugally. >> There's two cars, you know. I try.

Absolutely.

Um and I just part of me really wants to

move out of the condo.

>> To where though to where?

>> I'm thinking I'm thinking about senior place. >> Great. That's amazing. Can you afford that?

>> Absolutely. I mean, my mom my mom had a

place and she just passed away within the year. $1,800 a month.

>> Okay. The get get with a Smart Ver Pro.

Sell your home. Put the 425 you're going to get from it in an account that will earn money to make sure you're next 20

years you can afford [clears throat] um this place.

>> But what do I do about Jacob?

>> You can't. Here's the most beautiful part. He's he's turning into a grown man and he's in the HVAC world. He's going to make great money and he gets to figure that out for himself.

And my fear is you stepping in is actually going to harm him more than it's going to help him. >> When my grandmother when I came home from college and she sat me down and said >> I had five, I think at the time earrings and my hair was all long and she said, "I don't like your earrings." >> That's not Jacob, though. >> I I know.

>> she didn't like a thing I was doing.

>> Okay. >> And I heard her and I actually made some changes in my life. But that was the extent of the power she held over me.

>> Okay. >> And you're trying to take ownership or even asking yourself, did I do something wrong because he's at 18 or 19 wanting to move in with his girlfriend into a cheap apartment? I'm going to free you from that. No. You saved his life.

>> Okay. Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> You've done >> Thank you for your time.

>> You've done something amazing. >> You You've instilled character into this and gave them a safe place and showed them what love looked like. That is worth far more than you handing him a condo at 19, which no 19-year-old needs handed to them. >> And hand to rent somewhere and figure it out.

>> A half a million dollar condo is not going to keep him from living with his girlfriend. Maybe you sitting him down and saying, "Hey, this is a big deal to me. I I want to be heard on this. I'm your grandmother and slash your mom.

Then he gets to decide what he's going to go do next. But yeah, buying him a house, whatever. Sell your condo, that's great. Make sure you sit down with a smart investor pro what to do with the ass with the cash so that 20 years of

living in a residential facility, you're going to be okay. You're always going to have money to take care of yourself.

That's the greatest gift you can give for him is him not having to come pay your rent the last 10 years of your life. So, making sure you're good to go.

That's a gift.

>> But man, yeah, be heard on this uh values thing.

>> Chris is such a sweet, sweet person. If she's taking grandson applications, I'm willing to apply. [laughter] >> My grandma, God rest her soul. Here's what she gave us and we were grateful for it. 100 bucks at Christmas, 100 bucks on the birthday. >> That's a huge >> no condos. [laughter] I turned out okay.

>> Barely. But I loved that my grandmother had I mean, she didn't have the courage.

She was just amazing. But she said, "I don't like that hair. I don't like those earrings. I like this woman.

You need to marry her." Which when I was dating my wife, like that was awesome. That was awesome. >> That wisdom. >> Yeah.

It was great. Far more. But I still at 19, 20, 25, whatever. I had to go make the next decision I thought was the right one.

>> Yeah. Handing a I mean, just thinking me at 19, you hand any 19-year-old any large asset or any large amount of money, they're going to squander it and screw it up. >> He'll sell it within the month. Our brains are not developed enough to handle something like that.

And best case scenario, it destroys your work ethic because you're like, well, I was working so [music] hard so one day I could own a home and now it's just handed to me.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney.

Open phones at88255225.

Paige awaits in Michigan up next. What's going on, Paige?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, so my question today is how do I tell my mom that I don't want her to be my financial advisor?

>> Is she literally a financial adviser?

That is her profession.

>> So for background um she is becoming a

financial adviser right now. My current financial advisor um she was working for and he's retiring this year. So she is taking over for him. >> Very simple, very simple conversation. I got you. You ready?

>> Yes. >> I need you to just be my mom.

>> Yeah. Um, so the issue with that is actually um as I was I was meeting with a financial adviser that actually works right next to her office yesterday and she was leaving work early and um right as I was walking into the other door.

She was walking out and she was pretty upset that I was um I I another context

I have a 529 plan that was set up years ago and I'm I yesterday I converted it over to um to start the process of converting it to an IRA and she was pretty upset with me when she told me.

>> Okay. But like if she was a therapist, you wouldn't go to her for therapy.

>> Yes. Okay. True. That's so true. And so when she when I want you to tell her, "Hey, mom, if you were going to graduate school to get a graduate degree in therapy," I would tell all my friends to come see you. But I can't have you as my therapist. I need you as my mom.

>> And I'm so proud of you for going to get your financial stuff. That's awesome.

But I want you to stay my mom. Of course, I'm going to ask you your opinion on stuff, but I need I want to preserve this relationship.

>> Okay. What do I do if she feels offended

by that? because she is retaining the same number. >> You can't control that.

>> Okay. Yes. >> And can I be honest with you? You've probably been having to solve for that your whole life, haven't you?

>> Yes. I think so. >> Yes. Mom's going to get mad. Don't do this. Don't say that. Mom's going to get mad. What you learned as a really young kid is that it was your job

to take care of the emotional needs of the adults in your life. And that's never a kid's job.

>> Yeah. And so if your mom if you do what's best for you and your mom decides

to go off the handle, scream and yell, not talk to you, not invite you to Christmas, that's heartbreaking and you have to grieve that. But that's a choice that she as a as another adult made

>> to put conditions on her love for her daughter, which is you will be one of my clients.

>> Yep. Okay. You know, it's so funny. My husband actually just told me this last night, too. He's a huge fan of yours.

smart guy. >> All right. Do not tell him that you called us. Tell him. Be like, "You know what, honey? You're so smart and and handsome. You're right." >> And he's going to be like, "Oh, yeah.

>> I love it. Thank you." >> Yeah. Oh, here here's my take, too, Paige. I want someone who's unbiased and unclouded.

And the truth is, your mom loves you so much. She can't. Her judgment will be clouded by her love for you and what she wants for you and what she didn't get to do and what she would have done if she was your age. I want I just want an old guy who's like, "Here's the math.

Here's what to invest in." And I go, "Okay, cool." >> You know, or an old woman. This is not sexist. But, you know what I mean? I want someone so unbiased and so far removed who's looking at my situation from 30,000 ft.

Not somebody who was, you know, changing my diapers a decade ago, >> right? >> So, there's just it's just harder when it's someone that close to you. So, it's not out of that you don't love her, you don't trust her.

>> Yes. Exactly. And I know you guys always say, "Don't mix family and money.

Thanksgiving dinner tastes different." >> Yes. And by Yeah. And imagine she moves you in a bunch of funds and those funds because they're on the market and they're part of a roller coaster system, they go down.

>> I I don't want that.

>> Yeah. Right. >> I don't want you looking at her being like, "Oh, our portfolio was good last month until mom moved it to Right." It's

just going to protect you you all long term.

>> Perfect. Okay. Thank you so much.

>> Of course you're like I always need to hear it from another of source.

>> From an unbiased third party. Yeah, there we go. That's it. George, if my mom worked in concrete, I would ask her to come help my fix my driveway. My mom was an English professor. >> Um, when it came to, hey, will you help me like edit this?

>> Of course. But that's not a

>> It's not It's It's just Does the comic go there? Does the comic go here? It's there's Yeah, there's not all this other drama involved in it. So, there's certain jobs, man. Absolutely.

>> My friend was just telling me, so she's selling her house and her dad just became a real estate agent. He sold zero homes. Guess who's the real estate agent? >> Guess who's not going to sell their house? >> Dad. And so, I'm like, this is a nightmare situation, but it's she's like, well, just I want to help him out.

And I'm like, this is not this is this is scary. >> Well, you're choosing I'm going to And by the way, you're not helping out as much as you are placating. I would rather him not be sad than we sell our

house. >> And he chooses to be sad. Great. And here's what's gonna happen. He's gonna struggle to sell that house. First one.

It's just the way it goes. And he's going to start panicking and feeling a little bit shamed. And then he's going to not call back all the time. And then Thanksgiving dinner. >> Oh, that was the other thing she said. Yeah. He's not great at like details and and keeping up on stuff and getting back to texts and emails. Like that's who you want to ask. Let him be have the privilege of just being your dad.

>> Yes. Amen. That's all we got to say.

>> All right. Allison is up next in Richmond, Virginia. What's your question, Allison?

>> Yes. So, I have a 12-year-old that well, she's 12 and a half that's been watching and listening to the Ramsay Show with us and watching her dad and I do our um baby steps and she's been saving money because she wants to buy a car in several years. Um so, she has a checking account and a savings account and we actually went to the bank yesterday. Um, we were going to take a chunk of her savings and move it to a money market, but they said that because she's under 18, we can't do that.

you suggest that she's gaining more interest than just the little savings account? >> Yeah. >> Well, she's making like 0 something%.

Yeah. >> Right. >> You could do a um as the parent or guardian, you could open a high yield savings account. That's what I would do.

And designate it as a savings account for the child.

Okay. >> So, it's just kind of a label on there that it's for the kid.

>> Okay. So, that's So, okay. We asked about this. You can do a money market, put in your names, and then just give it turn it over to her when she was 18, but her name couldn't be on it.

>> Exactly. You could just transfer it over. And if you want a great high yield savings account, usually your brickandmortar banks have terrible high yield savings accounts, terrible rates.

So, you might want to look at an online option. And one that I love and use is from our friends at Fairwinds. And you've heard Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. They have an awesome high yield savings account.

So, you could open that in your name, label it for her, and start stacking away money in there and it's going to make, you know, 10x what you're making in your current bank. And that's what I would do. CDs I don't love cuz the money's locked up and you got to time it perfectly for it to mature, all of that. And the rates and high yield savings accounts are as good as a lot of the CDs out there.

And >> don't lose this. She sounds like an extraordinary 13-year-old.

Is that fair? She Yes, she is.

>> Okay. One thing, a gift you can give her that's not going to feel like a gift in the moment is to remind her through things like this that you are still the parent.

>> I like that. >> Okay. And because because when she goes to buy a car, she is going to save $7,000 to go buy a car. You are going to say you can or cannot buy this car cuz you're 16. >> Right. >> Right. And I'm not going to let you buy a cool truck that's been dropped with in the right cuz I'm still your parent.

This is a great way to say, "Hey, um I'm proud of you. This is your money. You've earned it, but we're going to put it in this account cuz it can earn more money for you." >> And I like the 401 Dave plan. Maybe you match what she puts into that and she gets a $14,000 used car four years from now. Now we're talking.

>> [music]

[music] >> buying you're selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know [music] what's really happening in the housing market. So, let's make the trends easy to understand. The median home prices held steady around $424,000.

In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate and snag a better price. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to about 5 1/2% in October, giving some buyers breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop.

Do not try to time the market in that way. So, if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. Victoria is in Temple, Texas, up next. What's going on, Victoria?

>> Hey, thanks. >> What's happening? So, I Yeah. So,

my husband and I have no consumer debt, but we're about to close probably in January on our house, which will be about 260 after the down payment, maybe a little bit less cuz we're stacking it right now with my income.

>> Okay. >> Um I right now I work, it's called PRN.

It's as needed. So, it works because I have two young kids. I have a 2 and a halfyear-old and a 10-month-old.

So, right now though, we're looking at, well, what if I took there's a full-time nights position coming up. I work social work in the ER usually. Um, there's a

full-time nights position coming up in the spring. So, we're looking at, well, what if I took that and we just worked really hard for a season in order to pay it off? Like, we could pay our house off in about three and a half years. And so,

>> what's stressing you out about this house? Why the aggressive >> nature? >> Well, well, that's the thing. And that's kind of why I'm, you know, trying to get some advice is because it's not necessarily stressing us out. We have a lot of peace with where we're at right now, but the idea of looking forward and seeing um, you know, a short sprint and then being at the end of it and being totally free, um, which is huge to us,

being able to do, you know, what we need to do, want to do if we feel called to go somewhere else, do something else, like all that kind of freedom. Yeah.

>> Is just really appealing to us. So I don't want >> you're talking to two guys who are obsessed with not owing people money. So >> I' I feel the exact same pain. It just just know that it comes at a cost >> and it does it it wears you out around the edges. >> In my brain I'm going well right now with a with a 2 and a halfyear-old and a 10-month-old this is when they need you the most. And so could we delay this aggressive you know take until maybe

when they're three and five? Okay. Now life is a little easier. You can afford to take a little more sacrifice. That's a personal decision. I'm just looking at the variables as a dad with with two young ones like you. Right. >> It would be a really hard season for me to sacrifice right now >> versus when they're a little bit older.

>> Yeah. I I kind of look at it two different ways. Like it I think it would be a different sacrifice at that point.

It is >> because I kind of look at it I'm like they're not really going to remember this time. I mean I'm there my mom watches them when I'm not home. Their nervous system will their nervous system will.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. But but again, you have the right word. Any path you take is a sacrifice.

And any path you take comes with trade-offs.

>> Yeah. >> So if we play this out to where you don't make the sacrifice, how long will it take to pay off the mortgage if you just make extra payments >> with your current income? >> And that what's that trajectory?

>> That would be more like um >> five years, >> I think. I think when I looked at it, no, it was more like maybe eight.

>> Okay. And then let's also fast forward.

You guys will be making more money two years from now, four years from now than you are today. Correct.

>> Mhm. >> Probably. >> Or is there a world where you want to stay home for a season or are you wanting to continue? >> My long-term goal is to be home.

I was home for the first about year and a half of my son's life and went back to work actually right before I had my second to try to stack up cash for this down payment. >> Okay. Um, and so, you know, I want to eventually be home. And that's part of it, too, is like at that point I could just be home and not have this like >> Let me ask I want to ask George a question on your behalf.

>> So, so this mortgage you're taking out is 260.

>> Uh, yeah. At at tops after down payment.

>> All right. So, let's say after down payment, let's for easy math, let's say um 250. Okay. That's what you'll come in at. George, could they take one year and just go BA NAS?

get it down to where they owe 125 and then go recast that to where their payment is 125. That basically their existing mortgage which keeps all the interest the same, everything's the same except now your monthly payment just plummets so that you could then stay home and you have $125,000 mortgage.

>> I like that plan. What does your husband make?

>> Uh he's actually starting a new job this week where he'll be making 80. His take-home after all the I calculated the whole thing. It should be about um 2,700

a paycheck >> per paycheck. Okay. And then what are you making right now?

>> Well, right now I make 1 to 3,000 a month because I work, you know, I pick up shifts if I this job, my take-home

after, you know, retirement and all that would be maybe around sixish.

>> Oh wow. >> So, let me throw um a thing that a

variable in here that I always recommend to brand new parents. Okay.

Make six-month plans. Make threemon plans.

Because what happens sometimes is people make four-year commitments and they have a 10-month-old and then in six months you absolutely hate every second of your life waking up and being away from this barely one-year-old kid.

>> Yeah. >> And you feel trapped because quote unquote we made a deal.

And so what if y'all say we're going to do try this plan out, but we are have it already on the calendar. We already have a half day retreat planned with just the two of us to say, do we still like each other? Do we still is our we still like

hanging out with each other? Do we still like going to bed at the same time? Do we still does our intimacy life are we still going the way we want to be? Do we have the life that we want to have right this second? And is the sacrifice still worth it? And that gives both of you permission to to say, "I hate what we're

doing." to go, "Cool, pull the plug." You get what I'm saying? That way you don't feel trapped.

>> Yeah. At first when we started talking about it, like we were like, "No, we're not doing that. That's crazy." And then as we talked about it more, we're like, "Well, what if we try it?" And then we definitely have that understanding together of like, well, if we do this, >> not committing to more than like a year and if we feel good about it at that point, keep going, but if not, then we stop. or even if something sooner comes up.

Cuz that's the great thing about my job now is >> I have that freedom to work when it works for us and not work when it doesn't work for us. >> And and make no mistake, what you're doing is like clinically like technically crazy, >> right? It is. It's abnormal.

It's outside of the normal and it could change everything for the rest of your life. But if you all set the foundation of your marriage on fire to get to this thing, then when you get there, you cross that finish line and you got nothing left to give or you look back and realize we don't like each other. We don't like the parents we've become.

Like it will come at a cost. And so it's constantly going back and checking in.

The reason I can't tell you don't do this is it's exactly what I did.

>> Yeah. >> And I don't regret it, but I wish my wife and I had had better conversations on the front end. and we had a lot and

I'm glad that we both I'm glad that we did it. So, it's it's both and but just go in very wideeyed that this is going to come at a cost.

>> Yeah. Well, definitely do and that's why I'm trying to seek wisdom is I know like you know just the night schedule and switching back to days to be with them on my days off and like you know that just would be a lot it will be a lot

>> alone and then also my kids >> right but I I am a lot when I owe somebody money I just don't sleep as well and I know because I've tracked it right I just don't I I it just weighs on me and so everybody's a little bit different there but man you're I always tell folks go if you can do it in two years then just hit the gas and you're looking at double doubling that to four years. >> What's the mortgage payment going to be likely?

>> I think it'll be around 18 or 19.

Depends on what the interest rate comes to. >> Okay. It sounds like your husband could cover that if he was just if he was just his income. >> Yeah. We designed our life so that if I really wanted to be home, I could be.

>> Good. That's what I was going to tell you. Same page, same team. >> I didn't want you to craft a life where you both have to work full-time and you have no options. So, the fact that you did this, >> we crafted this to be very flexible.

>> Well, I think you have options then. And uh I think you'll know pretty quickly if it's working for the family, if it's working for you, if you wanted to try it for a season, that might be what I would do is just test it out. My wife did this. She came back to work after she had a baby.

4 months later, she was like, I need to be home. But at least we knew, you know, you know that you know once you've you've tried it out. So, I would encourage you to try it out. And the good news is it's not a sin.

It's mind-blowing. I'm just so proud of you guys for preddeciding that you don't want to carry this mortgage for 15, 30 years. >> Commit to a short-term goal. Hit it.

Re-evaluate.

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>> [music]

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[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at8825-55225.

Today's question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If you've tried everything to fix your defaulted private student loans and nothing's worked, Yrefi can help.

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Today's question comes from Nathan in Georgia. Nathan writes, "I'm in college and I'm trying to earn a degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time. You don't like that. I don't enjoy the field I'm studying, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after graduation." I really don't like that. Am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. [snorts] Yes. Yes. And then more yes. And then yes after that. Wow. Okay. I'm trying

I'm trying to parse this. earn the degree that will make me the most money in the quickest amount of time. What does that even mean? So the ROI on this

degree, so that means like you're going to get into med school and become a doctor or you're going to work >> it's the quickest amount of time.

>> And so >> so it's just whatever I can do in a four-year degree that will ROI with the highest paying job on the other side. >> Correct. >> And then I will figure out what I want

to do after graduation. So there's no real career on the other side other than whatever pays the most.

>> Yes, >> you can do that. >> You you can, but it will not work out

long term. And so I I know I'm in the minority on this and I know I'm biased because I worked in colleges for years.

The degree you get, the skill you learn how to do, the trade you learn, whether you're learning the trade of communication, you're learning the trade of um counseling, you're learning the trade of how to work in a business, that is important. And so is if you have to

have a a degree with 128 hours in it, that means you're going to have multiple professors over the course of your over your time. That means you're learning how to operate with 30 or 40 different bosses. What does this boss want in that paper versus what this boss wants? What does this one?

You're also learning to work with your classmates. You're also learning to navigate and learn how to do quote unquote life, how to pay your bills, how to be on time. And so to just distill down education into a transaction, I'm I'm morally opposed to that.

I just need this grade so I can get this test. And what we've done is create a system where the only thing that matters is not what you have learned or know, but what does that end report card say?

And we're finding that there is more A's than ever. and we're falling off a cliff in terms of oh, you don't know how to do math, you don't know how to write, right? You don't know how to think on your own. And so if you reduce this

education to quickest this, quickest that, most ROI, um you're going to run into a mess. Okay, so that's number one.

Number two, don't hear me say that what

you get a major in doesn't matter. It absolutely does. And there's a bunch of insane majors out there that are not a

good use of your time and money. So be thoughtful about that. The next bigger thing here is am I wrong to chase money instead of career satisfaction? Yes. The

number three on our study of millionaires. The number three was teachers.

You if you pursue something you love and that you become good at over time and you are helping people, you have to make real life choices about the math problem that is is your life. And what I love about teachers being number three is my wife was a teacher. She knew what this job was going to pay and so she made choices on her undergraduate degree and she made choices that her first car she bought was a Corolla and she thought it was going to go for 25 years. I guarantee that car is still driving somewhere.

She made peace with the Corolla life. She made peace with this is what I'm going to do and so this is what I want to have. And she would have fallen right in line with other teachers that you become a millionaire over time because you make choices about your lifestyle, right? But if you chase money, it will never end well.

it just won't end well. >> Well, it'll never be enough. And if you get to some certain goal, the goalpost will just move and you'll you'll be going you'll be calling us saying, "Hey, I make 300,000 doing medical device sales and I hate it." >> Right? >> Can I go back to school for the thing I love?

I'm like, "Well, dude, just do that now. >> Do that now." >> Or don't go to school at all. If you just want to go make a bunch of money, go start a landscaping company and go bust your butt and make six figures the first year. You can do that, too.

This is America. You have the choice. But chasing money in and of itself is a terrible goal. Uh instead go what do I love to do?

What could I get really good at? >> And the money helping that that to me is the magic question. >> That's a sustainable form.

trajectory has been the one thing I'm pretty good at is sitting behind closed doors of hurting people. I did that as a dean of students. I did that as a crisis responder. Now I do that as a YouTuber.

And one day this will all go away and I'll job will change again.

>> That's it's it will change again. But my identity is separate from it has to be from a job title. The world's too crazy.

It's moving too fast. Your job titles are going to change. The job we have right now did not exist when I graduated. And so chasing money or chasing an an uh I got to get this degree so I can go as fast.

Man, I who knows where I would be right now. I would have fallen off a cliff. But get real good at the thing that you do, right? You're really you are really good at distilling down complex information and helping people.

that would be good across a number of fields. It just happens to be this one right now. What is the thing you're really good at and what lights you up? And then go chase that.

>> And by the way, people don't want to do business with someone who they know is just chasing money. They can smell the inauthenticity four miles away.

Nobody wants to do that when you're desperate for the sale to make another buck. That's >> right. >> So I hope that helps, Nathan. Hope you're listening out there. all young people listen to this conversation because this could spare you a lot of heartache. All right, Savannah is in Montgomery, Alabama. What's going on, Savannah?

>> Hey, so I am looking to get some advice on um a repossession situation that

happened after a divorce. Um and

I'm stuck paying for it.

>> Oh man.

Um so was your is your divorce finalized?

Yes, it's been finalized. Um, the vehicle was awarded to him in the divorce. Um, I've tried to communicate

with the loan company. They don't care honestly because my name is on the loan as well. [clears throat] >> Um, after the divorce, he just didn't

pay the truck and it got repoed back in June or July, I believe. Um, they've

since auctioned the vehicle off and now

they've sent me a letter for the remaining balance. >> The deficiency amount, how much is that?

>> Um, $7,000 or I'm sorry, the whole balance is $12,714.30.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> have you called your attorney to circle back?

>> Um, I have not.

>> What did the divorce decree say?

>> No longer being recorded.

>> I'm sorry. What did the what did the divorce decree say?

>> So whatever was in his possession at the time of the divorce was awarded to him which is the was the vehicle.

>> But did it say he was responsible for the car payments or that you were?

>> Well that it said so the debt was the loan was in both of our names and it said my debt was to be to me and his debt was to be to him.

>> Okay. >> Um and I had asked them about this you know before and they just told me you know it it's got my name on it. I have to deal with it. No, legally they don't.

The lender doesn't care about the decree, but it just, you know, if you could take legal action against them, if you wanted to pursue that, I think the easiest route to go is just try to settle because you are legally responsible for it. And so, if you can settle for instead of 127, if you can come up with five or six and they can call it paid off, I would do that.

>> So, they did send me a letter, that's what I got this week, telling me that they would settle for $7,628.58.

>> Perfect. Okay. How how fast could you save that up if you just worked your tail off and did nothing else but save up to get this car out of your life?

>> Um I mean I don't know on the letter

they're giving me 36 months to pay that off. I don't know if that's going to include interest or what.

>> It may have some fees on there. You may be able to negotiate those off if you can say hey I'm going to pay you this money in a year but I need you to remove all these extra fees.

>> Okay. Um, so I mean I'm a single mom and

I work five full days a week and then

the weekends that I don't have my kid,

>> um, I work those weekends as well. Um, >> do you have any other debts right now? >> I don't um, I have my house.

>> Okay. Just a house. All my guns toward this. >> Would this be a case of going to a credit union and getting a loan and getting this thing knocked out? If you could do that, >> I don't I would ideally that would be

great, but I mean when he left me, he destroyed everything. >> Yeah, your credit your credits tanked because of the rep was like 400 probably. >> Yeah, you might you might go to a credit union and [music] take the divorce decree and explain it and they may work with you cuz you're in a different situation, especially if you bring your work um your current hours that you're working right now. They may give you that loan knowing there's a there's an extenduating circumstance, but [music] maybe not. Our

scripture of the day, Isaiah 48:17.

I am the Lord your God who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. Eddie Veter said, "Life moves fast. As much as you can learn from your story, you have to move forward." Chip is in Dallas, Texas. Up next, what's going on, Chip?

>> Uh, well, get straight to the point, guys. Um, my uh father and I are in uh

business together. Um, I've got two other brothers and one sister. They don't participate in the business and never have. Uh my parents are getting a little bit older and um I am worried

about if something happens to them where

this leaves me for my business which I've built. My my father's a hands-off uh partner and um my main concern is uh

I have a good relationship with my uh siblings but um you know when stuff

happens stuff happens. Um, so in this

case, it's a substantial business, but

also, uh, we own the real estate. So, I'm trying to figure out, is it something that I should try to pursue

buying them out? I don't know if I could buy them out using funds from the business. Um, and again, I I don't know,

but uh, >> how much how much is he invested in for?

Uh, so so we are so technically it's it's my mother's 25%, my father's 25%,

I'm 25%, and my wife is 25%. Let's just

say my parents are 50. >> What what are they in for though?

>> Oh, uh, moneywise, uh, $3.5 million is

total what what their share would be worth. >> And your concern is that they pass away suddenly and then your siblings come wanting their piece of that $3.5 million.

>> Yes. Uh, I've talked to my father about it. He says that we have

I guess laid it out equally. But my problem is is that I don't know about the other assets. If it's going to come into the point, let's just say that if I

want to take this business, am I going to have to buy out my siblings? And uh >> is your dad saying no, no, no. I've got 3.5 for one sibling and 3.5 for the

other. Is that what he was saying? >> Oh, no, no, no, no. uh what he has like I'd say to buy him out of this business is 3.5 uh millions like what I'd have to pay to get him and my mom like out. Uh that's what I would value it at. Of course, we haven't had a valuation the past two years, but um >> yeah, what is it the business worth?

>> Uh so the business itself is probably worth about a million and a half. Uh the real estate um the real estate is was

worth two. It's probably worth more like three, maybe three and a half now. So it could be more than three and a half total. >> And what is it? cash flow >> uh cash flow. Uh so the only people that take, you know, of these partners that take salaries is my wife and I. Um and

uh we each take about $100,000 and then we do dispersements at the end of the year. But um so cash flow after paying

our salaries is about 500.

>> Okay. And you're saying that three and a half million they would agree that's a that's fair amongst all parties as far as a buy? I I'm not not saying that. Um

I think that if I approach them possibly um >> I think if you I think if you're making a net after expenses of $500,000 a year,

your valuation's pretty high.

>> Yes. I I think what it is is it's a reoccurring um income. And I don't want to get into too much details, but it is a >> kind of like subscriptionbased, if you will. So it's kind of like you have people locked in um and then you have long-term customers. But um uh let's

just say >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> But I mean even at I mean you're talking about 7x your your net cash flow, right?

>> Oh, the three again the three and a half

is is including real estate. Okay. So >> got it. So let's just pretend it's three and a half. Let's just walk this through an example and I'll tell you what I would do, what Dave Ramsey would do. Uh we're not doing debt and you obviously don't have the money upfront to pay for this. Correct. >> No. No. And I and I again, not to say that he would want it all up front, but um >> Sure. >> But would they be willing to go, "All right, we'll do 350K for 10 years is

what you're going to pay us from this business." >> Uh I think so. Um I don't know. Uh they

are getting older, so I not trying to be morbid, but um I would say that 10 years may be a stretch, truthfully, uh unfortunately. So yeah.

>> Well, we I think you just start playing with the numbers here and go, "Okay, here's what we could comfortably do.

based on the actual revenue of the business to go, "All right, we can do 400,000 over seven years." I I would

prefer it to be a percentage of your profit. >> I agree. I agree. >> And my hope would be that y'all do that and every year y'all can re you reconcile and so maybe you get down to where let's say they last six years

>> and then at the end I just would have to pay the difference to sibling.

>> You would pay it to a trust that would be dispersed to the siblings. That's right. at the agreed upon rate.

>> And I would involve a lot of professionals at this point. I would not do handshake agreements. I would have a business valuation expert, a CPA, an estate attorney. Get all of this in writing so that everyone's on the same page, siblings included.

>> And and that's my my thing. I' I've been trying to work on this past three or four years. And again, my father's like, "Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it." And he's he's a bare man. Don't get I'm not thinking anything's going to happen like shady like that. But again, I'm just worried about the sibling.

>> It's a relational drama outside of this.

>> Have you talked to your siblings to tell them that you're working on it?

>> Um, so, uh, one brother, oldest brother doesn't have any care. He He's like, I don't care about it. He's like, I'll sign over whatever. So, anything that if I did have to pay him, he wouldn't want a payment. Um, he's a he's done pretty well in life. I guess this doesn't isn't needed for him. >> I I would make sure you get that in writing because seven years from now, his wife may really want that. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, and I agree.

I agree. Uh that's what I I I don't see that being a problem. Um the other two, again, they're very nice people, but you know, uh when stuff happens and they might say, "Oh, well, this is worth, you know, three and a half or whatever, and and you know, our portion is worth this." Uh and that's what I'm I'm worried about. Uh they they have shown no interest in the business.

They don't support uh they never supported the idea or or uh or supported real estate in general. Sure.

>> uh maybe two that you take the average of a real evaluation that you offer that to him >> and he says, "No chance. I'll sell this to you for a million dollars." >> Yeah. Well, I love that. >> Or for one, like whatever.

And he may say, "Great, cool." But he may say, "I'm not taking that much money. We're going to sign an agreement here and then it's going to be based off net profit over the next 10 years." That way there's no debt.

>> Yeah. >> But but if you if you sign a note to a $400,000 a year, you're locked into a payment. >> Oh, yeah. No.

And I don't I don't like payments. The only thing that we owe is a a small mortgage on our home. So again, we've been we've been following Dave. And >> uh that's main my main concern because I know that I could approach an SBA loan for something like this.

I just don't want to. >> Yeah. No, don't do that. Don't do when you introduce risk, it's going to add pressure and stress to everything.

not touch debt to go into this plan. And I like the idea of a percentage of profits over time. And so I hope that you guys can come to an agreement on what's fair and equitable for all parties and you avoid the drama of the siblings being involved. Make it very clear what they would get when mom and dad pass. Here's how this is going to go down. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm going to be. If you have

four siblings and one of those siblings had a really tight relationship with mom and dad, so much so that they invested a ton of money together. They they were silent partners in a business together. I promise you there is already a little bit of golden child syndrome. Oh yeah, sure. Chip always gets fill-in- thelank.

And so, make no mistake, you are clearly

a man of character trying to set this thing up so you preserve your relationships over time. I would expect mathematically that at least one of your siblings, if not two, bundle up and try to start a fight after your parents pass. It wasn't fair. They didn't talk to us. He got more than whatever the thing will be. I hope that's not the case, but you're talking millions. It

almost always is. Yeah. So, just be ready for I've rarely seen one of these just go perfectly smooth and everyone's happy and nobody's upset and everyone thought it was fair. >> That's right.

>> And so the best thing you can do is get ahead of it. Talk about it so much they're sick of you talking about it to where it's like, "Hey, I'm going to send you that email once a year about here's the agreement, here's the estate plan." And even Dave Ramsey does this with his own family. >> Every year they come to Jesus if Dave dies meeting. Here's what's going to happen with the estate.

And so there's no questions. >> That's right. There will not be any arguments to be had because there's nothing to argue about. >> Yeah.

Just just It's easy to say, "I don't care about that. I don't need that money." And then you find out, "Wait, I was going to get a million dollars." Yeah.

>> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only [music] one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Heat. Heat.

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## 72. Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go | November 11, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:59:11 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsay Show.

All right, let's get it on and popping talking about your life and your money. The number is easy. 888255225

gets you on the line. Here with Dr. John Deloney. My name is Jade Warshaw. Let's get into it. William is in Atlanta, Georgia. What's up, William? Will I am

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> So, uh I've got I am 22 years old. Um

and I am engaged recently. Um she has

two children of her own, uh that I've inherited and we are having we have one

on the way. Um, so I with her we've kind

of, you know, planned. We're getting married. We are one. Uh, as Dave likes to say. Uh, we're kind of thinking of

the ballpark of what our debt would be together. And it's around 15 to $16,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, and we're really trying to figure out what the best way to pay that off is with the income that we currently make >> right now or after you get married.

Uh after we get married, we'll be getting married at the end of this year.

>> Okay. >> I first thing I want you to do is not ballpark anything.

>> Okay. >> Get an exact dollar amount.

>> It's uh $15,668.

>> Okay. So, you got that way to go.

>> All right. And you're you're 22 and you're about to have three kids.

>> Yeah. >> All I got to say is dang, Gina, it's a lot of kids. >> Yeah. What kind of money are you guys making?

So, right now I'm making right at $52,000.

>> Mhm. What about her?

>> And she is making I'm sorry.

>> Uh yeah. What is What will your soon tobe wife be earning?

>> Uh $42,000.

>> Okay, good. Okay. And um is she going to

continue to work um after this baby or what's the plan?

>> Yeah. So, she's actually got a really unique opportunity. My mom does uh Medicare insurance policies and everything. Uh, she was a cop before this. I was a cop before I started doing what I'm doing now. Um, so she has

gotten a really unique opportunity to work for my mom. My mom only makes her come in 3 days a week for uh 5 hours at

a time and she pays her $1,100 every two weeks. >> All right. Sweet. So, the main question then is how do we is it how do we combine our money to pay off this debt or just we know how to combine the money, Jade. How do we pay off this debt? Yeah. Essentially, how do we pay it off?

Um what I'm really struggling with is, you know, as you said, 22 with three kids. Uh and I was just kind of thrown into the the other two. And obviously that's not their fault and I love them to death, >> but I've never really had to budget around kids. I've always just kind of budgeted around myself.

>> Absolutely. >> So just kind of jumping into things.

It's kind of weird for me to be able to

just jump into it and be like, "Okay, well, I have to spend this much on groceries now and we have to pay this much in rent and everything." And then even with some of >> the money we have left over at the end of the month, we're still kind of paycheck to paycheck as it is now.

>> Are you already sharing money or is this just hypotheticals?

Like are you hypothetically I'm sorry when you said that we're kind of you said well we're doing this but we're already kind of running out of money. Is that hypothetical or have you guys already combined money? Because what I was going to suggest is you guys do a mock budget of what it'll be like once you're married and you have her income there. You have his or yours.

>> We we've already combined everything at this point. Okay. >> So you'll make a hundred grand and you're already paycheck to paycheck.

>> Yeah. Okay. Is it daycare?

>> Yes. Daycare is a very big expense.

>> How much is daycare? Cuz your wife's making 1,100 a week.

>> 4,400. How much is dayare?

>> Every two weeks. >> Oh, every two weeks. So, she's making 2,200. How much is daycare?

>> Is not far off. It's about 1,200.

>> Okay. Okay. So, there's still something to be said for her paycheck or yours.

>> Um, yeah. And when it comes to food, whatever you think the number is going to be, multiply it by probably like 3,000 percent.

>> Yeah, it that that's been the biggest one for me is groceries. I never knew that they could cost so much.

>> Bro, you don't How old are How old are these two kids you're inheriting?

>> Four and two.

>> Just wait till they're 12 and 14.

>> And how much is rent? What are you guys paying for? Are you renting or what is it? >> Yeah. So, we're renting. Uh we live in a two bed, one bath house uh outside of Atlanta. Uh-huh. >> I I pay 1050 a month.

>> 1050,50 a month. >> Okay. >> Uh and then billwise, we try to keep our

power bill low, but power bill rates here in Georgia have been skyrocketing.

>> Okay. >> Um so like last month, our bill was $200

and then we got it this month and it was almost $400.

>> What about cars? >> What about your cars? >> Uh so so my car has paid off. I don't like new cars. I have a 99 Tahoe that I

drive around and she has a 2021 Traverse

that she is upside down in.

>> What she owe? >> Um and I 25,000. >> Oo. And what's it worth?

>> Probably around 15.

>> My my my. What's the payment on it?

>> 535. >> My gosh. Okay. Um >> and our interest rate is 6.7%.

>> Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, talking about paying off this debt, that's gonna that's if you guys can get out of that, that's going to free a lot of margin for you. Um, yeah. Now, that 15,000, is that

uh private sale or is that what a dealer would give you?

>> Uh, that Yeah, that's private sale. Uh, we've we've gone to a dealer and just seen like, you know, tradein wise, could she get something older and just kind of the rest of it roll over or how we could

work it out. Um, but they would offer way less than we can get in private sale. They they sell a lot more in private. >> So, what I would be looking at here is >> so you owe 25. I mean, there if you

wanted to get out of it, you could try to possibly get a loan for the difference. Uh, but you'd still have to get something cash, which you'd probably spend about 8,000 on. So, you'd be at 18 instead of 25. Whether or not that's worth it, eh, probably not. I think you

guys can just uh bear this out by doing

the two things we always teach, which is there's really only two ways to do this, John. I mean, he's either going to uh work more and she's going to work more or you're going to cut things out of your budget or you're going to do a combination of both. That's the way this works. So, listening to you run this out, I mean, I'm I'm I'm estimating you're taking home about uh 5,800 a month. Does that sound about right?

>> Yeah, round about. And and the good thing about my job is I work a union job as well and I just started. So in four years I'll be making about 93,000

>> which I love that. But today you've got a debt problem of 16,000. Now let me be clear. I I I truly don't think you guys need to be combining money until after you're married.

That's where I am on this. But you're already there now. I doubt you're going to go backwards since you're getting married at the end of the year. >> Um >> yeah.

>> But the the key here is we've got to find margin. 1050 on rent's not bad. The 1,200 on the daycare is not bad. 400 on utilities.

I think there's margin there that you can find by trimming back some of the in the the expenses you guys have because your big areas, daycare, um unless your insurance is through the roof, but the big three areas seem to be okay.

>> Y'all go to restaurants a lot?

>> No. >> You don't eat out at all? Y'all cook at home? >> Yeah, she cooks at home every night. or you have maybe you have some dogs or like some cats or something that you're spending a lot of money on pets. That's a big one. Um >> you got to just take the sucker down to down to bone, man, on your expenses.

>> That's what I would do. That's the answer. >> And if you have to get a second job on top of it, yeah, you got to work extra, but y'all got to grind it out. This just is hard, man.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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All right, Allan is in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on, Allan?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm in a a good predict uh predicament.

Um, my wife and I have recently uh went

debtree, paid off our house about a year ago. >> Way to go. Um the situation is we um I

pastor a church. I'm bocational and been doing that for uh 26 years now. We made

a choice when we got married and started having kids for my wife to stay at home.

Uh so I've been working a full-time job plus extra jobs all these years um just

to make ends meet. >> Uh so we're in a position right now where we're both 58 years old. uh a year

ago when we paid off our house, we just started investing for retirement. Um my

question is I feel like I've been

gazelle intense for the last 26 years.

Um but I feel like I still need to keep up that intensity to have enough in retirement. And >> how did you how did you be gazelle intense but just started saving last year for retirement?

uh because I was the only income uh

working two and three jobs just to make sure that our bills were paid and we had six kids and keeping food on the table.

>> But you guys also you paid off the you paid off the house. So you paid off the house before you started investing. Ye >> yes. >> Got it. >> Um and we we our house got torn down by

a tornado taken down by a tornado in 2019. >> Shoot. Uh, and that that actually helped us. Insurance allowed us to buy another

house. Uh, and we ended up owing less on that house than we owed on the one that we were living in. Uh, so that helps pay off that house quicker.

um you know so but we're in a position

right now where we've got um right now

I've got about $20,000 in Roth IRA and

mutual funds and we've got about $40,000

in savings. Um >> and what's the income >> what's your household income now as it stands? >> Well, yeah, right now my wife has started working since all of her kids are out. So now we're making 120,000 a year. >> Okay. >> Um we we've been putting um between 15

and $1800 a month into uh our

retirement. >> Okay. >> Um >> and we we have like $500 that we set out

each month for the next vehicle that we may end up having to buy.

>> Uh we've got $200 a month that we set aside for car expenses. Um, and then you

know the rest is insurance and things like that. Um, you know, I don't know if

we're saving out too much money for the next vehicle or you know, I I could throw more into the retirement. I just don't know >> well >> what what the best options would be. I think at this point your best option is to put as much into retirement as you can simply because I mean you said it yourself you've you've only got

20,000 plus the 40,000 you have just in regular savings and so of course you know replacing vehicles is is important but I am worried about you having something there because you as a pastor you're not you you don't have social security taken out of your check right >> well I I've had social security taken out because I've been working a regular job for the last >> 30 years. >> Okay. >> Um and I'm still working that regular job. >> Okay.

And do you know I mean I'm just trying to get all your numbers.

>> Uh I do not know what my um social security will be. My pension is going to be right around $1,800 a month.

>> Okay. Well, that's helpful. Yeah. I mean that would be my biggest thing. You do have the pension, which is nice. You do have a little bit of social security. Hopefully your wife will have that, too.

But yeah, my goal would be like, how much can I build up this $20,000? You said you were putting 1,800 a month in right now. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I mean, if I run that math as it is, um, if you start now or last year, like you said, and you do this till you're 72, I mean, that's $735,000

you'll have there. And I feel pretty good about that considering you'll have a paid for house. But obviously if we can bump that up, you know, that's going to every bit that you can bump that up is going to give you a little bit more peace. Right.

>> Right. Right. Yeah. I guess I've just had a point where I feel like, you know, I've been working two or three jobs plus pastoring for the last 30 years. I'm like, okay, I I'd like to spend some time with my wife.

>> But at the same time, this was >> all these were choices. I hate that.

Everything was a choice, man. I totally get it, dude. I totally get it.

And it's it's when you look it's it's it's a it's a tough pill to swallow. 58 is that what you said? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's a tough pill to swallow, but it's like we chose six kids. We chose to pastor a church. We chose to pay the house and not put any money in retirement. We made all those choices and then here we are and really at 58

like I'm looking at a guy who has given his whole life to serving people and y'all have a math problem. It's just a it's just a math problem. like are we gonna have enough money when we are 82 years old um to be able to get groceries

and pay the ever escalating energy bills etc etc etc >> right >> so I mean that that's what I would do I think the 1,800 you're doing is great um and that like I said it's going to get you to 700 3 you know between 7 and 750

if you can get to 2,000 that's even better but John is exactly right but John I want to take a moment and talk about what he just said because I I hear

that a lot on this show. I've experienced it myself, which is >> I'm just tired. >> Well, yes, but um it's going back to the thing about being gazelle intense. Um if you say to yourself, hey, I hear what the the folks at Ramsay are saying and I want to start working that plan. I want to do this baby steps thing. I just have to remind you guys, um it's a system is

a plan. And a plan is a plan because you do things in a step-by-step order to achieve the desired result. Yeah. If you don't do it in that order, it's no longer a plan. >> It's just some things I heard that I

might try some of them. >> And so run it back. The difference between a guy who put a hundred grand in

20 years ago, >> right, >> into retirement that's just grown and grown and grown and grown and would be 58 and have $100,000 left on his mortgage. >> Right. Exactly.

>> right the fact that he chose to pay off his house versus invest like I said there's a lot of there's crazier things he could have But if you say, "I'm working the Ramsy plan," then it doesn't work for you like that if you if you work our plan. And I just want to call that out because that's what keeps people very frustrated is when you look at this and go, "This one works for me, that one doesn't. This one works for me, that one doesn't." >> You say the whole plan doesn't work. >> Yes.

And you will. And I'm just saying if you don't do the plan the way the plan's written, John, you're going to end up chasing your tail. Then you're going to be looking at us saying, "But I was gazelle intense." And I'm like, "No, you weren't. That wasn't our plan.

and you write about this in your new book it's psychological it's emotional >> and there's something about like when I've talked to Dave privately about being gazelle intense I want to spend this many years and just pay off my house he said you're going to be a shell of yourself in those many years do it the way we we set it up so that when you turn 58 you're not looking around going, I've got nothing left to give and I'm exhausted >> and I just want to hug my wife like and I which dude I I I'm like that.

I totally get that.

and and the money's the money always works, right? It's less living less than you make. But >> there's a huge This is a perfect example of a guy who has dedicated his life taking care of people and paid off his house. He hasn't been out gambling his money.

It's amazing. And I'm 58. I'm just burned out. >> I'm tired.

I mean, Sam and I did that. I I've been guilty of it. That's why I'm calling it out. I'm not telling you something that I haven't done myself, Alan, and anybody else listening.

I mean, I was the one who It's clear. The baby steps clearly say pay minimum payments on everything and take the extra money and put it on the smallest debt. That's what it says. But I had a big idea and said, "We don't need to do that.

We just need to put all the money." Like, forget about the credit card minimum payments. Just put everything on the smallest debt. Then, yeah, you're going to get frustrated because now you got bill collectors calling your phone.

>> Right. >> Right. And then you're you're stressed out because something comes up and it's just you got to walk the plan the way the plan states. Millions of people have done this. And so there's a reason that it's called a proven plan, not just a plan because if you do it, the proof's in the pudding. It actually works for you. That's all I'm going to say. Not to not to get on to Allen. We love Allen.

But if you're listening and you're kind of hanging out around the water cooler on this, just do it the right way. It works.

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So go to ramiesolutions.com/store or if you happen to be watching on YouTube or podcast podcast, you can click the link in the description. All righty then. Let's go to Thomas who's in New York City, New York.

What's up?

>> Hi. Yes. Uh, I'm trying to figure out whether or not to to bless my sister um

with some money to help fix her car or uh see my siblings and my mom for

Thanksgiving. They promised to come up for Thanksgiving, but uh this wrinkle has uh put a put an issue in it.

>> Interesting. So, what's going on with your sister? What's causing her to have problems with fixing her car and uh getting to see the family on Thanksgiving? I mean, she she just doesn't have a a ton of money and um not

really good with money. >> I was going to say like the fact that you're calling tells me this is not a one-time event.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely not.

>> And if you cover the cost of this car, is it just going to be one thing after that? I I mean I'm I want to say I this is it,

but I mean I I want to take care of my my family and my people, but >> what's the n what's the nature of what's causing her to fall on hard times over and over again?

>> Uh I think lack of discipline. Um she's

kind of a a flighty uh person.

>> Yeah. >> So over the years, I mean, what's this looked like for you? I mean, give us some hard numbers. How much have you spent to bail her out?

>> Uh, not a not a ton. Um, but I I think more than anything, I just really want to see them. Um, >> but you you already answered your own question, brother. You said, "I'm always going to take care of my family."

>> You've already made that choice, dude. So if if that's the choice you want to make, then make peace with your choice and make peace with the consequences of that choice, which is you are you married right now? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Then you and your wife going to have to figure out like what that looks like financially. And you you have to

decide if I'm going to give money every time she calls, I'm not going to get mad when she calls. >> What's your wife think about it, though?

>> Uh she's she's good with it. I mean, I'm not mad. I I just want to see see them and uh up here for for Thanksgiving.

>> You I mean, you've already made that choice, brother, so make peace with it.

>> Do you have the money to help? What's your financial situation? I'm just wondering practically.

>> Yeah, we're we're good. We're getting ready to buy a house. Um we're Yeah,

we're we're doing well. Work the baby steps. Yeah. >> What's the question beneath this question? I'm str I'm struggling with your question. Mhm.

>> Uh I don't want to I want to see them

more than I want to to give her money to fix her car. >> So it's more about what you want, not what she needs.

>> Yeah. >> Huh. Um >> does she want to see you?

>> Uh yeah, but they they aren't going to

come up um if I don't give the money to

them >> because they can't or because they don't want. because they can't. >> Okay. >> Yeah, because they can't. Yeah.

>> Okay. Um and they didn't ask >> uh No, she didn't ask me to help her fix her car. She just asked me, "Hey, we we can't pay for the rental car to get up there." So, um >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh I'm 40 and my wife is 36.

>> Um here here's I agree with what John said. Um, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and I'm just thinking, okay, if my sister was like, "Hey, are you coming to Memphis?" and I was like, "No, you know, the car is in the shop." If she was like, "Oh, I'll pay for the car to get fixed." That might make me feel a little weird. I might be like, "Oh, no. We're good." Like, you know, Sam and I, we're we're good. And if she keep kept insisting, I I don't know that I would

have would like that. But just because

now it feels like, okay, well, I've got to give her this money back. I'm on the hook. You know, it it does change relationships when you borrow and give

give money to your family, especially if

it's not if there's kind of this underlying of she's kind of flighty. She just doesn't really, you know, handle her her her business. Uh that's my only

thought. I like I said, what John said is true. If you have already made up in your mind, if my family's struggling, I step in. Then that's your bag. I and the

way I if this was my house, the way I would frame it is, >> hey guys, I happen my wife and I happen to be in a season of blessing right now and we would love to get y'all a rental car to come up here

and they can say they can say no.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah, that doesn't bother I mean none of it bothers me. I'm just trying to play it from both.

>> Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. And you know your sister better than Jade and I will. And if you know that really what she's telling you is I don't want to come, then you're going to have to sit in that for a little bit and not just throw money at a problem, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. They definitely want to come. I just I feel like the responsible

one and want to want to take care of them. >> Is she married? Is she married?

>> Yeah. Yeah, she's married.

>> Okay. So, tell us about him because you told us about her. She's a little flighty. What about him?

Cuz it takes two to tango. Why? Why don't What's the problem? >> Yeah, they I I think it's just a lack of discipline.

I don't want to >> Okay, >> that's not my That's not my home, so I don't want to talk on them, but uh that's what it seems like to me. They >> Okay. >> They've uh they've had some hard times and >> um >> Are you concerned that you're enabling them? >> Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

>> How many times have you bailed them out in the past?

>> Uh a couple. Nothing nothing crazy.

Okay. >> Um, just a couple hundred dollars here or there. >> That's my I'm going be honest with you, uh, Thomas. That's the only thing that bothers me about it. I I 100% understood what you said earlier cuz I've been in that situation. We were like, "Hey, it benefits them and I realize that, but I'm really doing this cuz it's what I want. I want the whole family to be together." I understand that very well.

I'm in a season of that right now. Uh, however, the enabling part did bother me a little bit because this is a cycle.

And at that point, it's one thing if it's like no harm, no foul, but if you're enabling somebody, you are doing them harm. And so that's the only part that I I mean, John can speak more to that, that's your bag. But >> yeah, and I've I've given them like the the total money makeover book. I've tried to help them with budget management and >> Yeah. But they just haven't asked you for that.

>> Yeah. They haven't.

>> Yeah. And that's just tough, man. when when the our loved ones and our friends and family when we literally have a tool in our toolkit that can help them and they're not asking for that tool.

>> Yeah, that's tough, >> right? And that's that's always just hard. But I and I will say this, you would have a very extraordinary wife, and I'm not saying wife, you'd have a very extraordinary spouse >> if they're okay with you indiscriminately bailing out your siblings bad financial decisions over a long period of time. So, I think it's worth you sitting down with your wife and saying, "Hey, >> I don't want this to get out of control and be a forever thing.

What is our number? Do we have a line, >> a boundary?

>> Yeah. But dude, if you got the money and your family's just literally a rental car away from coming to see you, they just fell on hard times. That's an easy decision. But I think the fact that you're calling says there's different layers to this thing, man. And that just makes it challenging. >> I agree with that. Hey.

Yeah. What do you think you're going to do based on just based off a snapshot of what you heard John and I do? What do you think you'll do?

>> Yeah, I think I'll >> He's gonna do it.

>> Yeah. I'm gonna give him the money to fix the car and I'm gonna say we'll see you at another time. >> There you go. I like that.

Do it. Have a good holiday. Bring it up later when you're not in the heat of the moment. >> So Jade, I want to say this.

If it is, we're recording this show at the very beginning of November. If you haven't already and you're listening to this, if you're married, sit with your spouse and y'all talk through exactly what you want the holidays to look like. Not what they have to be. What do youall want them to look like?

And then communicate that to your family. Like do it the next day or two. Yes. >> Right.

Let everybody in your family know. Let all the temper tantrums happen. Let all the plans happen. Let all the exhale happen.

Um but make those plans while you are still in control of them before you get dragged behind somebody else's vision of Thanksgiving and Christmas. >> I agree.

>> And this year will not be the year it finally all works out. It'll be just like last year.

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All right. Anthony is in Providence, Rhode Island. Hey, Anthony. How can we help out today?

>> Hi. How you doing? Thanks for taking the call. >> Yeah, you bet. What's up?

Um, so I'm currently torn right now. Um,

my wife and I, I'll start off with this.

My wife and I, we both take home around,

and I'm saying like net, uh, we take around $80,000 a year. Um, maybe with

bonuses closer to 85.

>> Okay. Um, right now we are both currently $20,000

in debt between our car loans and um,

credit card debt. >> Okay. >> Um, the main concern I have now, uh, I

just started following the baby steps. I just got introduced to Bever by my friend. Um, and

everything's, you know, everything's great. The math is mapping. Uh the only concern I have right now is that I've been working her between her and I,

we've been working very very very hard.

Um long long hours uh trying to trying

to figure out babysitting.

>> Uh so it's been it's been pretty tough trying to manage time. Um because I know

you can't get time back. That's the one thing I've always been told. >> That's true. >> Um >> so the 85,000 net that's with side hustles.

Uh the 85,000 that's with uh both of our primary incomes.

>> Right. But you were saying like we're navigating you made it seem like you were doing a lot of extra.

>> So uh and our So we we both have a job.

Um a full-time job.

>> Uhhuh. >> I'm working about 60 hours a week. Um >> Got it. Uhhuh. >> And then she's working about maybe 30 35

hours a week. >> Okay. >> How old are your kids?

>> So I have one kid. He's one years old.

He just turned one. >> Okay. >> Um and trying to find a babysitter is the main issue for us. >> Mhm. >> Got it. Okay. >> Um we're able to make it work. Her grandma is always there for us and stuff. >> Okay. >> That's a blessing, dude. So, how much margin do you have every month? Like you've done the budget. And by the way, welcome to the cult, brother. >> Hope you like took a bath in the Kool-Aid, man. >> All right. So, you're here in our crazy little gang.

>> Like, how much margin do you have? You all done a budget. What do you got left at the end of every month that you're throwing at this $20,000 debt?

>> Uh, so for me alone, uh, just because

we're not factoring both of our incomes together.

>> Um, >> you're married. >> Um, >> you made a human together. You can share a checking account.

>> So, the main the main issue has been trying to get her on board with the Dave Ramsey thing. Um, >> okay. So, halt everything. Halt everything, homie. Halt. You can't you can't do this by yourself, man.

>> Right. >> You can't like you you got a bigger issue than debt right now and then it's it's a spouse that that doesn't share the same values as you, >> right? >> You got to get there.

>> And what does she want to do? >> Yeah. >> What's her what's Tell us her side.

>> Yeah. So she uh she definitely believes in um you know working very hard trying to stack the money but the the issue is that she's not in her mind she she wants

to save the money but she's not actually putting it on pen and paper and then she's not having any you know margin at the end of every month >> but she shouldn't have margin y'all should have margin. So, is the problem that she doesn't feel good about combining money? Like, plan aside, like getting out of debt aside, just you guys going through, let's pretend that there was no debt to pay off, just you guys being in a world where both your paychecks go into the same account and as you spend, >> you let it, you know, there's transparency and what's yours is mine, what's >> she she would be willing to do it.

the importance of it more often to her or just have that one good conversation about how serious I am about it and see if she like to see how she feels too.

>> So go ahead, John. >> I was going to say it's not about engraving, dude. It's a It's the opposite.

>> Like I want you to sit down with your wife tonight and say we've got a one-year-old. We created a human together and I don't feel like I am like that we're

we're united in this marriage and I want to be allin with you. And the way I want to start being allin with you is I want to put all of our money in one account and we're going to have to talk about it. We're going to share stuff because I don't feel safe with our money situation right now.

>> Right. Okay. >> And you and so instead of trying to engrave it in her like I got to force this plan, I want you to do the opposite. I want you to take a knee in front of your wife and open your hands and say, "I'm scared to death with how we handle money." >> Mhm.

>> And if it happened in your house in a negative way, I want you to say, "I lived through this," >> right? >> And I don't want our one-year-old growing up like this. And y'all make almost 90 grand. You 85 grand >> and you owe 20,000 bucks.

>> Right. Right. And then I don't care about like I'm gonna you're going to miss miss a couple of miss six months of

a one-year-old's life so that you can have the rest of the life that y'all

want to build.

>> Okay. >> You get what I'm saying?

>> Absolutely. >> But if you go at a spouse who's kind of on the fence or doesn't really care with a bunch of spreadsheets and a middle-aged man who like yells get out of debt, they're just going to blow you off. If you go to him and say, "I'm scared to death that I'm going to repeat the same mistakes my family made and I don't want to do this." Will you be allin with me? And if you are, I've got a plan that millions of people have used and it will work every time.

>> And can I add something to that? I would also, if I were in your position, I would seek to understand what's giving her uh pause.

that trepidation against you? >> Yeah. Do you do you always have a scheme? Is this like scheme number 50?

Like you were selling essential oils last week and Avon the week before that and like hot yoga the week before or is she just like pretty much immature kind of does what she wants to do?

>> I want to say it's a little bit of immaturity. >> Okay. >> She's just not not as responsible with money. >> Do you do you Venmo her for babysitters?

Um, so thankfully our her grandmother's not charging us. Even though >> I was being sarcastic, be like, "Do you all VM know each other for like, dude, you you got Wendy's last week, so I got Arby's this week?" >> Do y'all really? >> Yes. >> Okay. That ends today. That ends today.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's how roommates in college handle stuff, >> right? >> But there's something be The truth is some of it might be immaturity, but there's something behind that. I There's something behind that. >> Totally. There's something of she wants to protect herself or

whatever. Yeah. Embarrassment. It's a way for her to reward herself. There's something there that it'll be hard for you to get to the bottom of changing that without understanding her perspective. Wrong or right, it's still her perspective. The more you can understand it, the more you guys can can get on the same page. So, I >> Okay. I think that the plan of, you

know, working the baby steps is secondary to understanding why there's not a trust to combine finances. So, that's thing number one. And then as you unravel that, you can start to do these things. So, >> Dave talks about um and Rachel talk about there's um a nerd and a free spirit in every relationship.

>> And so, tell her you'll take the role of the nerd. And what that means is you'll create the draft of the budget >> when you all sit down on Sunday nights just to run through it. And she gets to change one thing at least and y'all go but you'll create the framework, you'll create the draft, but you're going to sit down and y'all are going to go over this thing.

>> But all the money is going to go into one account. We're never vinmoing each other again because it's our money. This isn't yours and this isn't mine.

>> And when y'all have when you get a big bonus, it's going to be y'all's. And when she gets a big bonus, it's going to be y'all's. And when y'all have babysitting, when y'all have food costs go up like crazy because of inflation, it's going to be y'all's problems that y'all handle together.

>> You get what I'm saying, >> right?

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. This this this conversation could transform your marriage >> or it'll reveal your marriage, right?

>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> I just I've been trying to figure out a way to like manage it without I guess

poking the bear per se. >> How long have you been married?

>> Um, so we actually got together two years ago.

>> But how long have you been married, >> man?

So I want to say about a year now.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, I want you to know how long

you've been married. >> Yeah, that's a number you need to know, homie. You need to you need to dial that one in. >> I'm sorry, Anthony.

That was funny to me. >> If if if you ever have to refer to your wife as a bear, and I know you're playing, but like when you say like, "I don't want to poke the bear." That like tension is the doorway. Conflict is connection. Like you got to go through that.

If you keep working around it, if it's unsafe, you got to go somewhere else. But if it's just immaturity, I'm going to do it. I want to do it. You've got to go right through that.

>> Oo, good question. It's the next right call, man. >> Yeah.

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All right, welcome back. We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and your money. I love this show. I love that you guys call in. I love that you trust us with your situations. It means a lot.

That's what Allison's doing from Omaha, Nebraska. Allison, you're on the line.

How can we help today? >> Heck yes, I am. Miss Jade, Dr. Deloney, thank you guys so much. This is like weird and really exciting at the same time. So, >> it's our honor. It's our honor.

>> What's up? >> Yeah. So, um my fiance and I are at a

crossroads on how to handle finances and

there is a difference in economic status and a family business involved. But because that's not complicated enough, we decided to try for a child and instantly succeeded. Um, which is great.

But once that happened, his tone has now

changed regarding combining finances and

even getting married legally at all.

>> Uh, oh. Yes.

A little a little marching band of red flags, but >> Yeah, man. Okay. So, how long have you been together? >> Oh, man. I'm laugh I'm not laughing at you. I'm just like >> No, I >> pass the picture and I'll I'll pour another one.

>> Jeez. So, has this guy just done a 180 on you? >> Uh, it Yes. I would like to dance around it and pretend that it's anything but.

But but it is dressed up in a really nice package, but when it gets down to it, it's it's a little hoodwinky. So,

>> um Okay. Um

>> and sorry, Jake, we've been together four years. So, what's your like what's

your question? How can we help? There's like 50 questions here I got, but what's your question?

>> Um, is there is there a way around

structuring things that I can that we

can make him and his family business and all that feel secure while also providing security for me as a stay-at-home mom?

>> Oh, so, okay, I see. So tell us the economic uh unbalance there. Tell us what his family business is, what it's worth, what you think he's worth, and then tell us about you. >> Yeah. Um to the best of my understanding, he he was in finance before. He's coming in with about 4 million and then the family business is about 15 to 20. However, they do leverage a lot of debt. Um so at least

to me, a lot of debt. It's like 1 to five million bucks a year they can take and go through. Um, for myself, I have

no debt. I've got a little under 600,000, own a home in Nashville, had a great business, um, that I shut down in order to come and be a part of this, >> making like 110, working only 10 hours a

week. So, >> so you work in his business, his family's business. >> Um, I help out probably more than I should and don't get paid. So, but I I

had my own business prior that I shut down in order to move and be a part of

this. >> So, did you say, let me make sure I understood. Did you say that you help out and don't get paid at all or you get paid for something, but then you go above and beyond that and don't get paid for the above and beyond? Well, the um I

don't have an official role in this business and I've been given a credit card which he thinks I should be happy with that that a credit card should be security enough.

>> Got it. Okay. So, there's problems here.

Um >> there's problems everywhere.

>> I guess let me ask you this question. This the most perplexing thing to me

>> Yes, sir. is

why aren't you running for the hills?

>> Because I have the most beautiful baby and I um >> I know but you >> there's just a there's a piece of me and I'm so sorry to cut you off. There's a piece of me that um >> I want I just want to make sure that I've unturned every rock >> you have. Oh, >> you have. >> Oh, wow. >> Behavior is a language. This man has said, "I do not want you a part of my life unless is as it is as an unpaid employee who

does whatever I want, whenever I want it, however I want." Period.

Right.

>> I'm so mad and so happy I called.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> Behavior is a language. You are desperately trying to hold on to a picture that is right and is good.

and you have sacrificed a whole bunch to get here. And as you have sacrificed, he has continued to pull back because he'll take everything you got, including your dignity and your respect and your work and your job and your time. He'll take all of it because you keep putting on the table.

>> Did he even offer a prenup?

Um, in the discussion leading into this,

it was always, I don't believe in prenups. I would never get married with a prenup. It was all that kind of discussion. Um, >> he just changed it to and I'll never get married either.

>> I think that's the thing. I I if you had told me something like he offered a prenup and I didn't want to sign it, that would have been weird. if the but I'll be honest, the fact that he didn't even say it. Let me know from the beginning.

He was planning all along not for this to go through. That's kind of the way I see it >> because a guy like this, he would be planning to protect his assets >> upon marriage, right? I mean, you're right. There's a big difference.

There's a family business. It would be totally fine for him to to offer that and say, "Hey, with my family business, here's what I have to do." And you'd be like, "Sure, fine." But the fact that he didn't even say it or mention it like that makes me know, oh, he wasn't even intending to get to get married at any point. >> Yeah. Things got even more squirly when there was like this push because I do have this credit card, which by the way, I spend less than I ever have before when I was supporting myself.

Um, >> the credit cards for you to use for yourself, not for the business. It's for you to just live on. Is that what it's for? >> It's what I pay for our child.

Yeah, Jaden, she should be happy. >> Oh, boy. >> Exactly. But when he when he was pushing for a budget, I said, "Perfect.

can live within a budget." I mean, I made my first million before I was 20 and lost it all and don't want to do that again. Um, but I was like, "How

much do we make?" And have never even

been able to get an answer of what that number actually is. So, >> can I ask you a question beneath the question?

Oh, I guess >> you're real smart and you're real accomplished.

How much of you're trying to force this this fantasy into reality even against

the wishes of the person that you created a human with?

How much of this is

um I don't have another word off top of my head right now, but is embarrassment sunk cost fallacy.

I'm too smart and too accomplished. I've done too much to have fallen for this.

So, I got to make this work. Otherwise, it's gonna be tough to look myself in the mirror.

>> Probably more than I want to acknowledge. >> Okay, I want to let you off the hook for that, man. We've all made mistakes with money. We've all made mistakes in love.

We've all like gone all in on something.

Had it burn us. That's just that's a human experience. What I don't want you to do is like, you're an amazing woman and you've got a little kid now.

And I don't want you to end up in ash over trying to make something happen that this your your partner is being very clear. I do not want to be in a relationship with you unless it's 100% on my terms which means it's not a relationship.

>> Is that fair? >> That's fair. >> I'm heartbroken for you.

>> I I appreciate the directness more than you know. >> Yeah. I'm heartbroken for you. We'll be thinking about you in the next next right move you got to make. But this these are hard conversations moving forward. And by the way, he you're about to find out how how much he makes when you file for custody. You're you're about to all those documents are about to be laid out on the table. So there we go. >> So sorry.

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All right. All right. So, I just want to tell you guys right now, uh, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for listening to the show, for liking the show, for subscribing to it. You guys even go so far as to share it with your friends, which is even better if you're doing that.

Please keep doing it. It helps us out so so much, and we're grateful. It's a a small gesture that makes a huge huge impact. So again, if you've ever liked the show, you know, hit the little heart.

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Keep doing it. All right, let's go to Mac who's in Chicago, Illinois. Shone,

what's up, Mac?

>> Hey, how you guys doing? I'm a big fan of the show. Thanks for having me on.

>> Yeah, you bet. What's up?

My question is around investing.

I'm not sure what to do with my cash and

my extra money at the end of the month.

I am investing fully in my Roth 401k.

I'm doing 15% there and kind of maxing it out. >> Good. >> Um, but I I have a lot of extra cash

left over just sitting in my savings account and I feel like I should be investing. I don't know how to start. I

don't know what to buy. And there's there's definitely a little bit of fear behind it to because I I don't want to

make the wrong choices and I I don't want to lose it. So, I'm calling for some financial guidance.

>> Cool. I like this question. >> You're awesome, man. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate the call. >> Way to go. So, you're already maxing out a Roth 401k. Now, are you just maxing it out or is it 15% of your income?

Well, it actually comes out to 14 and a half% of my income is maxing out the legal limit. So, it's kind of >> Yes to both. >> Okay, good. Um, and you're at the right stage of investing, right? There's no debt. You have 3 to six months saved.

>> That's correct. I've got about 25K emergency fund. I don't have any debt. I It's so funny. I called the show about four years ago when I did have debt and um now I'm totally debtree.

>> Awesome. Ah, I love it. So good. Okay.

So, you got 25,000 emergency fund. How much did you say? You said there's extra sitting in your checking. That's just above and beyond. You need to invest it. How much is that?

>> Yes, it's currently $110,000.

And >> though it feels good, I know um that probably shouldn't be sitting in cash.

And so, that >> was really the genesis for my call. And and then on top of that, I'm able to save $2,500 a month. And I don't

continue doing that if >> that's correct. Yeah. >> So what's your tell before I tell you about the investing I'm want to get a a snapshot of your life. Tell me about your living situation. Are you renting?

Do you own a house?

>> Yes, I'm currently renting. And though I

would like to follow the baby steps and buy a house, I'm not in a position to do

so right now. I I am financially in a position to do so, but the way my life

currently is, I don't know where I want to live long term. I don't know where my next job is going to be within the company I'm in. I'm open to relocating to advance my career. So, I I really don't I'm not in a position to buy a house right now. >> What's the time frame on all that? Is it in the next two to three years?

>> Probably. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I will say, so I'm going to

pair your living situation with your investing question. I will say, um, you've got the 110,000. I think that's a great start for a down payment, but, you know, like I know, wherever you end up,

uh, in the United States real estate wise, it's going to cost you a pretty penny of a down payment to even get into the world. I'm looking over here at our uh you know on our Ramsey Trusted site where you can see the housing market trends and I'm just seeing that the national median median price for a home is 424,000. Right? So even with something like that, if you want to get that to 25% of your take-home, you're likely putting down around 60%. Right?

Like you're putting down a lot uh if even if you you know make 100,000 a year. So that's a lot of money. So part of me says what I would do if I were in your shoes is I would keep investing the 15% but as far as this 2500 in margin goes and as far as 110 I might keep it

in a high yield savings account and just keep plugging away until I know that when the time comes and I'm going to buy a house that's likely $400,000 that I can easily plop down a big enough down

payment that that thing is not too big of a piece of my world. Does that make sense?

It does make sense and and that's what I'm currently doing. Like all the cash I have is in a high yield savings account.

>> However, I think um about time

>> or you have something above that.

>> Okay, >> that's the 110. Um about your previous

question on timeline. I thought you meant like when do you think I would relocate and that would be in two to three years. In terms of when I think I'm going to buy a house, I really don't know. Um, that's that's something I just

haven't decided yet.

>> Well, I still like the idea of when the C time comes, you having like $250,000

or $200,000. I don't know, but it sounds like the type of work you do might cause you to be in an area that has higher real estate prices. Am I wrong?

>> That's correct. >> Okay. So, for that reason, that's why I'm saying I like that plan because you're getting the both the best of both worlds. What's your income, by the way, right now?

um about 170 to 180 grand a year.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, you have a really great income. That would be my plan.

Now, let's say you stack that up to 250,000. You're like, Jade, I really feel good with this. I'm going to keep that in a high yield. I'm still not ready to buy.

Then, yeah, I would look over and I'd probably in your case, it'd be easy for you to max out on a Roth IRA every year. You know, you throw 7,000 in there and let that grow. Now, as far as what to invest in, because I think I heard you ask that question. Uh, >> correct.

Yeah. >> Four types of mutual funds. And by the way, hopefully your 401k is spread out like this, too.

Uh, we're looking for growth funds. Uh, we're looking for growth in income.

We're looking for aggressive growth, and we're looking for international. You might hear that stated as uh you know mega cap, large cap, small cap, and you

know mixed markets or emerging markets.

So that's kind of how we do it. It's just it's just a way to make sure that you're very diverse. Everything's spread around. Some of them are higher risk profile than others and it all balances each other out and that's the way my money is invested and that's the way John's money is invested. So that's how I do it. But you also said asked a question at the beginning and your question was I want to make sure I don't lose this money.

>> Yeah. >> Part of investment is a risk.

>> Of course. Yeah. >> So you could put all of that in there and the Q4 Nvidia number comes in lower

and since the stock market's been propped up by 10 stocks the last year or maybe even longer, like it could be volatile, right? And so you that might go down and the day it goes down I'm still going to make my same contribution because I'm playing a long game with it. Right. >> That's correct. And I'm definitely going to continue to do my 401k. I that's

something I don't think about. It's definitely a long-term thing. Every check, you know, >> but um in terms of >> I like to think >> my current cash is is where I'm concerned. >> Yeah. I I I I guess I want to double click on what um Jade was saying. part

of investing or let me ask you this.

What are you gonna do with a big pile of money?

>> I don't know. I guess that's why I was calling. >> Well, I'm just saying like in 10 years or in 15 years, you're going to buy a place to live.

>> That's correct. Yeah. >> Right. And so like I just want to double click on what Jade said. I think it's so right. If you have a quarter million dollars in a high yield savings account, number one, some bros somewhere are going to come after you. Who cares?

Because here's what you'll have that they don't. $250,000 to do whatever you want whenever you want.

>> Yeah. >> And if you want to go put 25% down on a million dollar house, you can just write a check. >> You know who else can this country? Not very many people.

>> And if you want to pay put 50% down on a $500,000 house, great. Like you'll be able to just chip away at it and chip away at it. I love the idea of you having cash for like like real estate as part of your investment portfolio over time. You know what I'm saying?

Yes, I understand. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. >> What I don't want you to do, you're going to get itchy. Go ahead.

>> Is to get into like speculative stuff and crypto and Oh, maybe if I like

that's where I think you're going to get yourself in trouble.

>> Yeah. And that's definitely something I don't plan on participating in. Um, I think it's like I even have an initial fear of investing in the stock market with funds and I know I probably should be on top of my 401k.

>> Just remember it's the same it's the same that's in your 401k. So, if you're looking if you log in and and check out your 401k and you feel good about it, you feel good about the growth, you feel good about what you've seen that it's the same it's the same stocks. And if you're still unsure, you can check out a Smart Vest Pro to help you learn a little bit more. And we'll make sure you get that information from Christian when he picks up.

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Alrighty. Hannah in West Virginia.

Virginia. Virginia's for lovers. That's the saying. What's going on?

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a big fan. I appreciate it.

>> Well, we're happy to have you on.

>> So, thank you. So, my question is, how

do I eliminate or consolidate my debt as

a single mom? My monthly expenses are higher than my take-home pay.

>> Oo. Well, you know that I can tell you

all of the the tools all day, but that's

a math problem right there, Hannah.

>> Yes, I I know. I moved up to West

Virginia from Mississippi in the hopes that I would be making a little bit more money in the career path that I'm in.

>> And I don't know that I did the math the correct way before I moved up here.

>> What's your career? >> Yeah, >> I am in property management um for student housing. >> What's your income?

I make $77,500

a year before taxes and insurance and

everything >> before taxes. So after I mean what are you 4600?

>> I I bring home about 2,300 every two

weeks. So >> Okay. And then what does it cost to make your life? Is it your is it your rent that's too high? What's going on?

>> It is rent. It is daycare. um car note.

Um I had zero credit card debt moving up

here, but since I have moved here, I

have acrewed about six grand in credit card debt. >> And that's just closing the gap on your budget, right? I don't I don't think you're going out living loca.

>> Um >> I am not. >> Tell me tell me what you pay for daycare every month.

>> It is $1,400 a month.

>> Oh, mama. Tell me what you pay in rent every month.

$1,5.90.

>> Okay, that's not that bad. That could be worse. Is that a two-bedroom or a one?

>> It's two bedrooms. >> Okay. Um, how how how young is the child? I mean, they're daycare age, but how young?

>> My son is 18 months old.

>> I think you got to get a one-bedroom.

>> Oh, man. Is there a chance you can move?

I I've spent my career working with these um adjacent campus villages at

universities. Is there a chance you could get into a campus apartment for a while?

>> I where I work is not directly affiliated with the school.

>> I know. But with the with the adjacent campus community, would they give you a place?

>> I I've never heard of that.

>> I would ask to be honest with you.

>> I had never heard of it either until I asked. And then because I was in charge, I created it for myself. But my wife and I and our infant I mean our two-year-old toddler moved into a

a campus living environment for a year.

>> Okay. >> And it changed our whole life. >> Definitely. >> And it wasn't the best thing in the world and it was not how I drew it up, but it ended up d my 2-year-old son had like 175 college students as they're

just fawning over them all the time. It was a dream come true for him.

>> Yes. That's that's awesome. I I will definitely look into that. Thank you.

>> You know why? because it's going to quote unquote help you with the student experience and help you with marketing blah blah blah. You know all the right words you got to say.

>> Agreed. Yes, that is correct. Which they

the university technically considers any off-campus housing to be in, you know, like direct competition. >> I know. >> Um with the university and we're

actually not even allowed to market on campus, but anyway.

>> Well, if you could live in Do you live on your property?

>> I do not. No, >> that that that's what I'm talking about. Is there a possibility you can move on to the property?

>> Oh, yes. I would have to reach out to my

supervisor and all the things just to see if we had like a diff like a concession. >> Um we did get >> Yes, we'll do. >> Yeah, reach out today. >> We'll do. >> I love that idea. >> I know that there's it's a great idea.

Yes, I know that they there's like a list like a companywide list for however much they can all lot per property and all of my current staff lives on site.

So I >> fire somebody. I'm just kidding. But maybe >> I did two weeks ago. >> Oh, there you go.

>> You got to find a place to live. >> But >> but there's a bigger issue here and that is do you need to reconsider going back to Mississippi?

I relocated up here because I was not

going to make even this much money doing what I doing what I do in Mississippi.

>> Is it time to find a new career path?

>> I've been doing this for four years.

>> I know. But you can't afford to live.

>> That's right. >> If you were in another situation and you told me that you made $78,000 a year, I

I'd be like, "Okay, great. That's a fine that's a there's that's a fine income.

You didn't call me telling me that you're making 40 or even 52. I think the

pri the problem is twofold. Number one, you're in a season of higher expense whenever you're in a daycare season. I mean, John, you know, I know daycare is expensive and it's not forever, but it is some the most expensive four to five years of your life. Um, so that's thing number one. Thing number two is this car. Tell me about your car payment.

I my car note is $600 a month.

>> That's the big Yeah. How How different would your life be if you had that $600 back?

>> It would be much better.

>> Yeah. You wouldn't be putting it on a credit card every month, right?

>> Yes. I wouldn't have to put daycare on a credit card every month. >> All right. So, tell me tell me the situation. What do you owe on your car >> currently? >> I owe 24,000.

>> Uhhuh. And what is it worth?

Last time I looked, I believe it was worth about 13,000.

>> Oh boy. >> Gosh. >> And you're positive that's private sale?

>> That it's been a minute since I've looked, so don't quote me on that. It could be completely different, but round about 13,000. >> Do a little homework on that tonight. It sounds like you might have rolled some negative equity in there at some point, but just do a little homework. What other debt is there? Anything else besides the car and the credit card?

No, I I don't have any other debt other than the car loan and my credit card debt.

>> So, I go back to what I said before. Do you know anybody where you are or are you just brand new? No friends, no community yet?

>> No community yet. I'm working on it. I'm trying to get involved with a church in the area. Um, I packed myself and my son

up and we just This was my better

opportunity and how I took it. Where is

this child's father?

>> Not has never been involved. Um I told him I was, you know, pregnant. He told me to get an abortion and I haven't heard from him since. >> Okay. But he still has a financial responsibility for this kid.

>> He does. Yes. And I am working on that.

But >> that would help you significantly as well. >> Yes, it would. So, if you were to look up in 90 days and you're getting at least some money from deadbeat and

you're living on campus at a free or reduced rate or not on campus but on your property.

>> Mhm. >> And you go trade this car in and

you go to a local credit union and take out a $5,000 loan because you found some way to sell it and you're going to take you're going to owe 5,000 bucks to a credit union and you got a cheap just crummy car. Your whole life is different then, right?

Yes. >> Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Those are th I mean those are your your three homeworks. Number one is check out

the campus thing. If the campus thing doesn't work, then you at least have to go down to a onebedroom >> to save some money. You're going to save, you know, 300 bucks by going down to a onebedroom thing. Number two, like John said, yeah, we need to look into this car. Do some due diligence on that.

Yeah. See if you can get a loan for the difference. And you're buying like a $3,000 beater. um which is, you know,

that's what you're getting the loan for to cover the difference plus a little bit to get a car. >> Um >> yeah, that's that's what this is looking like. And then number three is like John said, tracking down deadbeat dad and getting what you can get from him because you need the money. I listen, I hear you. I know just bringing up the man's existence is is hurting you on the

inside cuz you're probably like, I don't want anything to do with him. Um, and I don't want to need his money, but you you could use it, right?

>> That is exactly how I am feeling. Yes.

And I always said that no amount of money, you know, was worth, you know, putting my kid in the hands of someone that I don't trust, >> but >> you're not going to put him in his hands. But on behalf of the dads who the greatest thing in our life is the privilege of taking care of our kids, um,

this guy's got a responsibility and there's hopefully the courts will step up and do the right thing and he needs to participate.

>> The only other thing you can do is try to figure out something you can do at night once the baby is home that you can do from home that's online. Maybe you edit papers or you do, you know, uh, copy editing or something that you can do on your own time to make money.

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is in Detroit, Michigan. Mark, what's up? >> Hey, how you doing, guys?

>> Doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I kind of have a weird question for you. So, quick history. Um, I was married 17 years. Um, I've been divorced about a year and a half. Um, and my

ex-wife and I, we followed the Dave Ramsey uh, financial model.

>> Uhhuh. >> Okay. Um, we we did it right. Like uh, I feel like our story is unique in a divorce in that >> we didn't walk away like ruined financially. >> Good. >> But well, yeah. But I feel very I guess disillusioned with it. I guess a little bit in that I feel like I we put our entire thought and everything into making sure we did everything right financially. >> Yeah. >> And we didn't fix anything else. And I

feel like now we're sitting here 17 years later, a couple of kids in high school, lives destroyed, and I don't

know what to do. >> It's like I have a stack of money.

>> I have retirement. So does she. Our kids

are fine. they're going to go to college no matter what happens.

>> Do you feel like >> you used this in place of dealing with your real issues? Is that what you're saying? You kind of both just focused on this instead of >> Yeah. I think it was like all I cared about was the money side of it. And I was so focused on making sure that the balance sheet was right that I I we I

lost everything else. And and I'm in a spot now where I I really don't know what I want to do. I mean, it it's like work doesn't really feel like it has a lot of meaning anymore, even though I do it and I go every day.

>> When was your How soon was your divorce over, brother? >> Uh, a year and a half ago.

>> Okay. Exhale, man. You still haven't even started the grieving process yet.

Like, you're still mad. >> Yeah. >> Well, I I feel like I failed. Um, like I

feel like like neither one of us did anything. Like I feel like it wasn't like some some neither one of us like

did some terrible thing or anything else that it was just we just got to a point where it was like after 17 years we just didn't even didn't even know who was

who. You know what I mean? We just we just both walked away and I don't know how to recover from that. I don't know what to do next. But my like I have a condo now. My kids are like well why don't we get a house? Why don't we build a house? I I can build any house we want but >> I I don't want I already had that. I don't want it again. You know what I mean? I I'm just really struggling with what now?

>> I'm going to tell you. I'm just going to be honest with you. You're not going to like my answer, dude, because you've built a really powerful like wall between you and and feeling something

and it's probably been there for a while.

And I you're you're going to keep spinning your wheels until you open the

door and let yourself feel this. And that feeling is probably going to be overwhelming because it's been there since you were a kid cuz somebody said if you go get good grades and make a bunch of money, then you're going to you're going to feel worth being loved.

And then you got married to somebody who you loved and cared about and y'all created an amazing family, but you were still trying to prove yourself to the guy in the mirror for all these years, man.

And until you acknowledge I'm worth

being loved and I'm worth more than the spreadsheet and the balance sheet and all if until you grieve that man it's it's you're going to continue to chase it.

Yeah. I just I just don't know like all I all I care about is my kids and like I I hate I only get to be a a dad half the time. I mean there's nothing I wouldn't do or give them or or give their mom or any like there's there's no you know what I mean? I I just want them to be good.

And I hate that, you know, hey, I get my week and then all of a sudden there's a week where I get to I >> I sit in my living I sit in my living room and I I can't go say good night to my kids. >> It's called grief.

>> Well, why? Like circle me back. Do you

and your ex are you all on good terms?

>> Yeah, we we co-parent great. Uh to be honest, we get along better after the divorce than we did for the 5 years leading up to it. >> Okay, then why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, "What have we done?"

Why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, "Hey, look, we chose, especially the last five years, a miserable marriage.

What if we chose something different?

because we both can

and we chose to walk away. There's no rule in the books that say two people who built a pretty amazing life but got so disconnected emotionally and relationally and spiritually that we just thought the next right move was just we we bought into the one of the most insidious cultural lies which is relationships just quote unquote run their course. It's bull crap. It's a lie. It's not true. At some point people say I quit.

And when you quit things, fine. But you can also start things.

>> Why Why wouldn't you do that?

>> I I don't know. I think it's a lot of years of of hurt, a lot of years of things that >> that's you you can't you cannot edit that story at all. There's a period after the end of that sentence. Why not today write a new one?

>> Can I ask a question mark? I mean, was was there a moment like was there infidelity? Was there one of those dropped. It was just we just drifted apart. >> It was just after a couple years of of sleeping in different rooms and just basically just not being that just

basically not caring about each other at all in either way and just getting to a point where it was just like, you know what, neither one of us can live like this. >> Okay. But you have to go back all the way up. You're you're too smart with the spreadsheet to not get what I'm trying to say here. >> Yeah. >> At some point, you chose to stop caring.

And that means you can choose to start

caring.

It's a choice. It is not a feeling. I don't care how much Hollywood says it is.

I just spent an entire weekend with 1,400 people, 600 plus couples up here in Nashville leading a marriage retreat where we taught people how to build rebuild your marriage from the floor up.

Now, I'm not trying to push you into getting remarried to her. What I want to tell you is the next choice you make is a choice.

The next thing you don't do is a choice to not do something. And I'm trying to empower you is what I'm trying to do.

But you know, and I know that 18 months later, sitting on the couch and just with your face in your hands, wanting to see your kids >> isn't the next right step.

Right? >> Going to see a therapist and saying, "I've not liked the guy I see in the mirror since I was second grade. I want to deal with this." Is

maybe calling your ex and saying, "What have I done?" is maybe calling and saying, "I miss the kids. Can I come by and see them in the evening because we're good co-parents?" Maybe that I don't know what the next right one is, but you have to regain your autonomy

here amidst this black hole of grief.

And at some point, dude, you have to

feel it

or your body will shut you down. And it feels like that's what it's doing to you right now. It's starting to spiral and spiral and spiral.

>> Yeah. There doesn't seem to be a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. >> That's right. And there can't be any light when every day you go home and sit on the couch in a dark room.

And what I'm trying here's what I'm trying to give you. I'm trying to give you your power back. That yes, like the

feelings you have are real and you're now a partner in this misery,

which means I'm trying to give you a good side to this. That means you can be a partner in walking towards a light

somewhere.

Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir.

Do you believe you're worth even taking that step? Or are you just sitting at home thinking, "I failed my kids. I failed my wife. I failed everything. I failed myself." >> Well, there there's a lot of that. I'm not going to lie to you. >> Okay, then here's the path. >> Because I'm a guy that's your job is is to make it work. Okay. >> No matter what. >> Then good. Then we're going to make this one work. You're going to write yourself a letter tonight.

But two years ago, you you're going to write that guy a letter who's sitting at the divorce table and you're going to write a letter to yourself in 5 years about who the guy you're going to become because of the choice you started making today. Go make it happen, brother.

Welcome back to the show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm here hosting with Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jade Warshaw. Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show. We've got Dave who's in Los Angeles, California. Hey Dave, how can we help?

>> Thank you so much. I just found you guys this weekend for the first time. So, forgive me if what I'm asking is something you've covered through the years, but you guys in it.

>> We're just glad you're with us, man.

>> On the phone. >> We're glad you're with us. >> I'm excited. >> Yeah, dude. No ap No apologies needed, man. Everybody's showing up new and pulling in at the same at their own pace. So, I'm glad you're here.

>> Excellent. Excellent. I'm a single father and I went through a major family crisis three years ago. um the type of

family crisis that is, you know, life or death. As a result, to to to co to deal

with the expenses of that, I went into $140,000 of credit card debt. Um and and I have

no regrets. I would do that again every day. >> Okay. >> Um because at the end of the day, the crisis was resolved. Um and that money

was well spent. However, the credit card debt is crazy. I mean,

some cards are $22,000, others are $32,000.

Um, and the interest on that ranges between 25% to about 32%. So,

>> it's killing me obviously. Um, I'm treading water, no disposable income, no backup money whatsoever. If I had another crisis, the type of real crisis,

I would drown because there's >> you know, just enough to do just every

bare minimum for the cards, um, and just

enough to put gas in the car and just enough for decent meals, but nothing

crazy, no vacations, etc.

>> What do you make? What do you make every month?

>> Um, I make a decent income. Um, I'm in

California, so you know, it may seem like a lot here, but it's not when you have a mortgage and all of the things.

And luckily, >> hit me with the number.

>> Oh, um, I I'll give you a yearly because Oh. Oh, no. Give me >> monthly. It's about um 4,200.

No, sorry. That's for paycheck. So, >> okay. 84. >> We're looking at 80. 84. Okay. Math was never my strength. >> That's all right. We're We're walking with you. So, you've got the 8,400 and like you said, you are in California, so I got to assume that your real estate is higher. You you own a house.

>> I do, and I fortunately have a 30-year

fixed rate with a really good um uh

interest, like really good or got that right before the pandemic. >> What do you pay every month for that mortgage?

>> Like, okay, so one paycheck goes to the mortgage. That's one of the paychecks.

And the other paycheck goes for the bills. >> So half of your blessed your mortgage is 50% of the problem is 50% of your take-home pay. Is that what you're saying? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. >> So you got Yeah. Your house is not a blessing, brother. You got to change your mindset on it's not. It's killing you. >> The mortgage is a bigger problem than the credit card debt almost.

>> It's killing you.

I hate to tell you that. We're telling you that we love you, dude. But >> there's a little there's a little twist.

The mortgage normally won't be that high coming in March. when I went through the crisis, I couldn't pay my property taxes and I couldn't pay my um I couldn't pay my property taxes. >> So, you're doubling up right now. Is that what's happening?

>> Yeah. My mortgage company basically did an escrow and um and to pay for the back

taxes. >> Um my mortgage went up, but it's going to come down about $1,500

um in March. So, I'll have a little

breathing I'll have, you know, $1,500 of breathing space. Okay, >> which will put a dent in some of those credit cards, but you know, not as much

as I need because some of the interest is obviously going to gobble up.

>> Here's the thing. Here's what you're going to have to do. You're going to have to either, and this is me just being a direct because I care about you, okay? Either, >> okay, >> man, you are a smart guy. You make a good salary and your your heart is bigger than the moon, dude. You're an amazing guy and you're going to have to figure this out. Or if you if you get

with this crazy crew over here in Nashville, Tennessee, and we've got millions of people who've gone through this and it's worked, you're going to have to say, "I'm going to surrender all of the old ideas I had about things like

a good mortgage rate is always a blessing or the interest rate here and that, but we have a process and I promise you it will work if you'll follow it. But you got to go all in, okay?

And no other no other little influencory person can get away with what we say, which is it works 100% of the time if you'll run the plan. >> Okay, Jade's going to walk you through it. But you you just got to be all in.

>> How old's your kid? >> I um by the way, I I have two things that

were offered to me, which is the purpose of my call. So, I just want to make sure we get to those. But my child is 5 years old. >> Five. Okay, good to know.

>> Okay. Um, so I was just trying to attack

the first question that you had, which was seemed seemed like the credit card debt was an issue. I wanted to know what your time was like and what your ability is to earn more money. Knowing the age of your kid helps with that. You know, if you have a toddler at home, it's a lot different than if you have a 14-year-old at home. Um, but get to your what what were the other two parts of your question that you had?

So, the reason for my call is because I got two offers to deal with this and um not knowing what you've said previously on this topic. I am because I'm really tempted to go with either of these two.

>> Okay. >> Um because I don't have any more income

because I'm spending as a single dad the

the every minute of my life with my baby. I mean, she's the world and and

I'm all alone. >> Get into your question because we don't want to hit the clock on your question.

Got it. Okay. One agency hit me up and

said, "Look, we will help you. We will

negotiate all." >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't do that. It's total scam. Total scam.

Promise. >> Okay. It's not that consol consolidation, but they said they would, you know, if I go, you know, don't pay them for 60 days.

>> That all that's going to do here, ask yourself two questions. If if you don't pay them, what's going to happen? Your credit's going to be destroyed. And during that time, all they're doing is setting you up for negotiations. If you really wanted to go that route, couldn't you do that yourself? If you wanted to say, you know what, I'm just not going to pay them. I'm going to default everything and then I'm going to settle everything. Couldn't you do that yourself if you wanted to? Yeah, sure.

You don't need anybody to do that for you. >> Oh, that did that. Okay. Okay. Good.

>> But don't do that.

>> You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. I was trying to set you up for a world where you can say, "Okay, right now I'm making minimums. There's not much breathing room. what can I do to get more money in the door? And that would be my biggest question is what can I do to get more money in the door? You're right. It's going to be very tight for you um until March or April.

And there's part of you that if you want to, you know, take that horse to the Oldtown Road, that's fine. Uh cuz once you do, you're going to be well within, not well within, but you're going to be way closer to being able to keep this house about 600 bucks off. I don't think I'm going to make you sell the house over that just yet. But in the meantime,

you've got to be doing everything under the sun to get money. We can't just do

nothing for the next four months. You've really got to make sure that you are exhausting every single effort to get more money in. And what I would do if I were in your shoes is I'd say, "Okay, what do I need? What what would make me feel like I'm making a dent in this?

Is it $2,000 a month to put out the smallest credit card? Is it at $1,500 a month?" And I would work backwards from there. Can you take your kid with you to do some Door Dash and to do some Uber Eats? I think you can.

>> And to to to do some grocery runs for folks, that's what you've got to do because >> that's the only way you're paying this off. And I can tell you right now, there's not going to be anything comfortable about it. There's not going to be anything easy about it. There's not going to be anything about this that makes you look forward to it except knowing that at one point you're finally going to pay it off and it's going to be behind you for good. That's it.

All right. All right. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything with your money, but you're just not getting anywhere? You ever feel like you're taking two steps forward, one step back?

Do you ever feel like Allan who called in a couple hours back and said, "I'm gazelle intense, but still not where you want to be with your money." Man, I know all about that. Uh maybe you've made the changes, maybe you've had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It's because money is not just about math. And John, I've been saying that over and over uh across

the airwaves that money is not just

about math. Money is so completely emotional. I mean, you've probably heard us say it for years here that money touches every area of your life, right?

It touches your relationships with your spouse, your relationship with your kids. It touches your spirituality. It touches your career, >> your relationship with yourself, the shame, the embarrassment, the >> everything. >> And so when you listen to a show like this and you have a situation like

earlier when the guy called in and he said his wife didn't want to combine the money, remember? And we were trying to get to the bottom of that. Guaranteed is something emotional that happened. Whether it's something she observed as a kid in her parents household, something that happened with a boyfriend, there's always something behind it.

So when we say, "Hey, combine your finances," it's never as easy as just one, two, three, right? When we tell somebody, "Hey, you're going to have to sell that car." And they say, "Well, wait a minute. That was my gift to myself when I finally finished med school and that was huge accomplishment." That that's attached to a a feeling of achievement for me. It's not always easy, right?

There's always >> I I don't think we talk about right now.

>> It's it's wild, right? And we're getting more calls than ever about people making 70 grand, 80 grand, 100 grand that are just duct taping things together right now. Mhm.

>> Well, nobody talks about, and I'm so

glad that you do now, nobody talks about that sitting at the table feeling with your face in your hands, like you have

failed your kids, like you have failed your spouse, like you're just going to be just like everybody else in your family. >> That sense of >> like it's easy like I quote unquote know what to do next, right? Spend less and go make more. But if it was that simple, everybody would be doing that.

would be there is a wheelbarrow full of >> like emotions in there and nobody talks about that moment when the lights are dim in your kitchen by yourself with your hands in your face going I don't know how this going to work >> and man that's why I'm I'm glad you put that down man >> yeah John's talking about uh my new book that just came out called what no one tells you about money >> so good >> and it is it's the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there which is me I've been there I've been in your situation just what John was talking about that moment where you look up and You go, "My life is not what I thought it was going to be, and I thought I would be XYZ by now.

I thought I should have this by now.

There's a lot of things that hit us. You feel frustrated, and you feel scared, and you feel angry, and you have shame and guilt. All of these things. I talk about it all in the book. And it's not just me pontificating. It's me giving you practical steps on how to get out.

John, that's what we do here. We tell you, we tell you the problem, but then we tell you step by step how to get out.

Get out. And it's the same thing with this. If you walk through the frameworks in this book, you are going to go, "Oh, oh, Jade, now I know what it is. I just

needed you to give me words for it. I didn't know what it was, and now I see it. Now I can see how that's been holding me back." Yes, I will do it. So, please, guys, this is the book. It's on pre-order now. It's $24.99. And if you order it now, you'll get $100 in free bonus items. You'll get the audio book.

You'll get early access to the ebook. Uh you'll also get uh I do a a video where I go through and do a financial checkup with you like one-on-one. We'll we'll walk through your numbers and it's really helpful. And guys, I'm going to do a book club of this book.

It's going to be a three-week book club where we're going to really unpack this thing together. So, if you've just felt like you needed something, you need somebody to grab your hand, I'm the one grabbing your hand. I'm reaching out. Grab it and I'm helping you.

Come on. Let's do this together. This is your year, man. Pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, of course, you already know.

Click the link in the description to get your copy. Guys, please don't wait on this.

I'm telling you, man. You can look at me. You can already tell it's going to be different. All right, Katon is in Denver, Colorado. Katon, how can we help, man? >> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. How can we help? Hey. Um, so my

question is, um, how do I start a

business as the sole provider to my family?

>> You don't sleep very much for the first couple of years.

>> Yeah, I kind of thought the same.

>> Yeah. >> Um, I just I just want to know I'm kind of a newer listener to the show and um

I've uh luckily I don't have any debt.

Um, and I know that's what you guys talk about a lot, which is awesome. And I'm lucky enough where somehow without the Ramsay plan, I got there. But I'm here.

>> Oh, you have common sense.

>> I >> You know how to do elementary school math. Congratulations, man. It's awesome, dude. >> Well, I'm here. And uh I just want to know like what would the baby steps for me look like? a different set of baby steps for starting a business and potentially walking away from uh my current career because I I I've worked really hard to get to the position where I'm at and I'm making over six figures now, which is awesome.

>> What six figures? Six figures can be a lot. It can be 101,000 or it can be 901,000. So, how many how many figures?

Tell me the real figures.

>> Okay, the real figures is um I'm making just over a hundred grand a year. Um, I'm in sales. So, half of that is commission, half of it is salary.

>> What business do you want to go start?

>> Um, I So, that's another part is the

business I would want to start. I I'm I'm a sales rep for a manufacturing company and I would essentially want to go into direct competition. Um, and the

issue with that is I I feel like I can't

start it unless I walk away from my current position. >> I think that's fair. I think that's right. And um that that's an integrous way to do that. >> So if you were to walk away from the job, what could you do um in the

meantime as a full-time job that makes money while you start building up your book of business doing the the the business you want to do?

>> Um well, I could pro I mean I've done a lot of things in the past. I was a bartender for a while. I worked I've done a bunch of different jobs, so I I'm sure I could figure something out. Um, but in in my industry without going into competition, I could probably make about$25 to $30 an hour while I'm

building this business.

>> Okay. Well, that's >> just get a M. Here's the deal. I want you to focus on the math problem.

>> You you are you married?

>> I am. Yeah. And we have two kids.

>> Okay. So, you and your spouse are going to sit down and just go up and here's here's how much money we need to survive for 24 months.

>> Okay. and then I'm going to I'm going to commit to making this much or if she wants to be a part of this dream too then I mean she's got to be a part of the dream but like contribute like then

I'm going to take on she's going to take on a second job or she's going to stop doing XY like here's how much it cost to run this house here's what we can cut for 24 months here's my investment in this thing and here's how we're going to know dollar amount is this being successful or not >> now you have no debt but do you have any money saved >> uh I do and I guess I guess The other wrench to throw is I'm renting right now.

>> That's not a wrench. It's fine.

>> So, I rent. Um, but I have about 70 grand in savings right now.

>> Okay. Yeah. I think that's I think that's the homework. Number one is make a list of what can I do in the meantime to bring in money, whether it's like you said in your field, you can, you know, make however many dollars an hour, but you need customers first, right?

So, that's not like you can start that necessarily tomorrow. Um, so we need to make a list of what we're going to do in the meantime until your business gets off the ground. And we need to figure out exactly what that number is.

Is it $5,000 a month that we need? Is it $6,250 a month that we need? And whatever that number is, now we work backwards in order to accomplish it using that list of skills and jobs that we said we were going to get. So that's what I would do.

And then just on the more practical side, you know, this is um I don't say this in the way that I don't believe in you because I actually I actually really do. I think you'll do this and you'll kill it.

here's what the plan is. Here's how long I think it's going to take to actually get this thing off the ground. Here's how long I'm willing to be in this amount of income bracket. Here's where it and here's also the point that we turn it off if for some reason it's not making money right.

Go ahead and put those boundaries around it because that's going to a light a fire for you to go quickly and really make stuff happen. And number two, it's going to make your wife go, "Okay, I can get behind this.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Hello, I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw.

>> Let's get into that Ramsey Show question of the day, shall we? >> We shall. >> All right, you already know it. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. When you when your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. But don't worry, Yi will not judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control. So, just visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

Remember, that's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

and it's not available in all states.

>> This question comes from Paige in Missouri. Paige writes, "My husband and I are struggling to balance everything right now. We are $25,000 in debt which

will be paid off next year. Combined, we earn around $100,000 a year. And between rent, home expenses, and our one-year-old, it feels like we can never get ahead. I've thought about getting a second part-time job, but I feel guilty leaving my baby longer than I do now.

Man, that keeps coming up over and over and over and over, man. Should we put everything on hold, including parenting time, church obligations, and personal commitments to focus on paying off debt faster? Or is there a better way to balance faith, family, and finances without burning out? >> Oo, you know what? I really I I love this question, John, because it's so

real. It's >> just wrote a book about this question. Yeah, >> it's such a real thing. Um, and it's a question of priorities and I think it's a very difficult question because >> everything wants to be the priority, >> right? >> Everything does. Um, and I I've said this before. I think with you, you know, it's very easy to say, um, I want to prioritize getting out of debt.

>> Um, and then we we also say, well, I

also want to prioritize being a parent.

And then she's got some another laundry list. Well, what about my faith? What about my family? What about my church?

D. All right, let's pretend that you

have said the number one thing for me to do is I want to get out of debt. That's

number one thing. That's top priority.

It's going to butt up against other things that are saying, "But no, I want to be the top priority." So, you're you're faith feeling that now. You're feeling saying, "Well, wait a minute. I have a a one-year-old. Is it a one-year-old? I have a one-year-old.

What about them? If I pay off this debt, I'm not prioritizing them." But that's simply not true. There's different ways to show priority. Okay, you could say,

"Well, I'm not prioritizing my baby if I'm not spending time with them." But that's not true. There's ways to prioritize your family, like providing a roof over their head, like taking care of them, making sure there's food on the table, making sure you can be there for them in the long run, making sure that you don't make your retirement their burden, right? Let's stop saying that the only way that we make our family a priority is to be there every waking moment of the day. That's just not true.

And that's something that we have to like square up with in the mirror. if we ever want to get this thing done. You're right, John. This has popped up a couple of times today. And I just want to say that it's a harsh reality, but it's a true reality. And I can say that as a mom, um, it doesn't feel good to leave your kid. >> As a dad, I don't like leaving my kids.

I like hanging out with my kids. >> It doesn't feel good. But remembering what's true, and this is what I talk about in the book, the things that we tell you to do, I get it. Um, it sounds good in the moment.

Yeah, just pick up a side hustle, no problem. 700 bucks a month. Bam. But then when you actually go home and start thinking about it, you develop these fears of, well, what if I What's your biggest fear?

Oh my gosh, if I do that, my child is going to forget about me. I'm going to be the worst parent ever. They're going to end up in therapy. No.

And I I found, John, with with fears, there are they can be rational or irrational.

And a lot of times when I find that there's an irrational fear, it tends to be on the vague side. It's kind of like, oh, if I do this, it's going to ruin everything. >> Be specific. That's true.

>> What do you mean by that? Ruin everything. you know, if I do this, it's just, you know, my church obligations, my personal commit. No, no, no.

What do you mean? Because if we can dial it down to something true that's actual, actually rational, then we can figure it out. If you said to me, uh, Paige, well, here's the thing.

um, we have this thing on Wednesday nights at my church and I'm the one that's responsible for bringing the meal and if I don't bring the meal, then 70 people don't have, you know, food for Bible study, right? If that's that's a very specific problem, then I would say, well, can't you just call Natalie and ask her to bring the food? That's right. >> Right now, we can solve the problem. So, you have to ask yourself, do you even really want to solve the problem?

>> So, if you do, let's get specific.

Number one, let's figure out and let's accept, hey, there's more than one way that I can prioritize my family. And in this season, the way I prioritize is I make sure this debt is paid off and that they have a a life financially. And then number two, whatever it is I'm afraid of, can I please drill it down to something that's real and rational so that I can actually solve the problem and see if it's even true that this, you know what I'm saying? What it is that I'm spinning out in my brain.

So that's what you need to do here.

church, um, family balance, I put that

in quotes, personal commitments, let those be number two, number three, number four, number five, number six on personal commitment. And in this season, for this short period of time, let yourself prioritize putting your family first by getting your financials right.

And that's all I can say about that, John. I mean, >> yeah, it's it's it's short-term pain for long-term gain, man. >> Every time >> it's like, I'm going to this is going to be awful right now for the next five months getting >> we have $2,000 of margin or we have $200. We're going to we're going to scratch and claw. We're going to sell some stuff and we're going to look at do we have to have

I mean I'm talking about getting radical in people's homes like with the the the

way we live. Get radical about it.

>> Plea please do. And and I love that you said that because you're you're going to have to s I feel like I'm saying this all the time. You're going to have to sacrifice. There may be a season when you got to move your your thermostat down and you got to wear jackets and get under blankets and >> or you sell your furniture and and you sleep on an air mattress or you go down to one, right?

And and thank you for saying that, John, because I want you guys to know I'm never going to tell you something that I've not done myself, but you're talking to somebody who sold all the furniture in their house >> and I sold my house and moved into a dorm.

And I >> Thank you. >> We We We I drove a $3,000 truck. It's

like you do what you got to do what you got to do. >> A one we were a onecar household for 10 years. The people on this show are not just we're not just making it up. We're telling you the things that we would do and that's what the things we have done.

>> Yeah. The things that we've done. Exactly. This is what it takes. And

>> change requires change. That's all I can say. And it's rarely easy. It's never comfortable.

That's just part of it. And I feel like that's the drum that I'm beating today because I I want people to understand that when you're in a marathon, you will feel pain. Like that's just part of it, John. Again, this is in the book.

When you're running a marathon, some days you go out and it's sun, it's sunny and it's 70 and the birds are chirping and it's great. Same thing with your money. Some days you wake up, you're like, "Man, today feels a great day to pay some bills and you're paying the bills.

You're not mad about paying a little bit extra on your your spouse's student loan. You feel good about it. you know, the check came in today. Everything's good. But then other days on the marathon, you wake up, it's stormy outside, it's cold, it's rainy, it's the big raindrops that hit you in the eye when you run that you just they soak your clothes immediately. And it's the same thing with your money. Some days you wake up and you're like, "Really?

This is what I get? I've been working 10 years at a job I hate that I barely make

and this is what I get. A crappy car where the AC barely works." Right. And you want to throw up your hands and you want to quit, but you can't.

>> Yeah. >> You can't quit. You have to keep going.

You have to keep going. It's not easy.

And that's fine. It's good that it's not easy because then then at the end, what it produces in you, John, is somebody who can who can go the distance, who can sacrifice to win. Somebody who can look at things as what they are and go, you know what, that makes sense, that doesn't. I can take some of the emotion out of it. I can control the emotion.

It's not just, well, this doesn't feel good. It rarely does.

>> I was um last night I was in Chicago and I was sitting with a great comedian named Matt Taylor. We were talking and he was talking about first starting comedy and having to scratch enough

nickels together to either eat or to

have a place to sleep. But he he talked about where he is now. >> Mhm. >> And it's he says the strength he has now

is rests on the I had to figure it out

and so now I know what I'm made of and so things don't scare me in the now. And >> it was that sense of if you don't know what you're made of, I don't think I could go without the house being at 76°, but I promise you, you can, >> right? I I don't know how we could make it without if we sold these two recliners. And the I promise you I promise you, you'll be okay.

>> You'll be fine. Well, this people are adaptive and and that's the thing you have to remember. People I don't know. I always like likening it to CO, but there was a time of life where we wore masks over our faces >> and we got used to it >> everywhere.

>> Everywhere. And you get used. That's just how the human humans are. We we will adapt to anything and be like, "Okay, this is what it is.

I'll make it work." And yeah, that's how it is with your money. Therefore, a minute. >> Yeah. My grandmother didn't have Chick-fil-A.

She had chickens in the backyard. >> All right. >> That's how they did it. >> You'll go to sit where the recliner once was.

And the first time you'll fall back thinking it was there. And then after that, you'll learn, "Oh, it's not there anymore." And you get used to sitting someplace else because that's what you'll do and you'll be fine. Guys, keep going. Do not give up.

Do not give up.

All right, our scripture and quote of the day. He has shown you, oh mortal, what is good and what does the Lord require of you? to act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. That's Micah 6:8. James Clear said, "Every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become." Love

it. >> That's such a great line. >> It is such a great line. It's so true.

It's your choice. Every single one of them. All right. Rex in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Rex.

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Great. >> First of all, first of all, me and my friends big fans. Um, but uh current I

graduated college back in May. I had a little over $75,000 in debt, but uh I was blessed to promptly get a a well-paying job in my major and currently my expenses are uh I mean

effectively zero. I was wondering how to best capitalize on the situation and get those debts paid off as quick as possible. >> How are your expenses zero?

Uh yeah, so I mean after college moved back home and um uh pretty blessed that in my job I I'm constantly traveling and those travel expenses get um get paid for by my company. So I'm effectively besides having a girlfriend and you know doing stuff here and there playing golf effectively my you know mandatory expenses are zero currently.

>> Gotcha. What are you earning?

>> Uh so right you uh right now >> uh currently around 6,200 a month.

>> 6200 a month. Love that for you. Okay.

So, >> thank you. >> Listen, you you you you told me you have nothing else to pay for. >> You called the wrong show, brother. You're not going to like what we say. I tell you right now, >> right? >> Hit him with it, John.

>> Okay. You got You said you got a grown-up job. So, now you have to start doing grown-up stuff.

>> And that means, >> right, >> you make 6,200 bucks a month. That means in >> um Halloween of next year, you're going to be writing your last check >> for your student loans. Here's so my the

loans do get deferred. So, this is a no no for no I was going to say so I've been saving I've been saving since starting the job I've currently have I have about $25,000 saved and I was wondering do I just go right at it you know the the biggest loan >> your balance is now 50,000 congratulations >> you keep a thou keep a th000 aside >> uh keep a th000 aside that's baby step one you just need that there just in case something to fall back on it's not much clearly but yeah now you're now you're at 51,000 And then you can cash flow the rest.

Can you put $5,000 a month on this?

>> Uh that's currently what I what I am doing. >> That's amazing, brother. >> That's all you got to do there. Get it done. And listen, every >> I was just there's just so much conflicting information, you know, people, you know, telling people to invest and, you know, let the money work for you before getting to it. >> I'm I'm going to tell you like here's the deal. Everybody's going consider investing like building a house.

Everybody's going to be telling you, you want your house to look like this. No, you want a house look like this. You can't build a house in a hole. And you're in a hole right now, >> right? >> And every single person around you is

one word, broke.

>> Right? >> Every adult next to you at church broke.

>> The people you work with, their lives are owned by car companies and mortgage

companies and credit card companies.

They're owned.

And you just have to choose, brother.

I'm gonna simply do life a different way.

>> And this is me desperately. You can hear it in my voice. I'm desperately talking to 21-year-old me who got out of college, got my first big boy job, made a whole bunch of money, and I ended that first year out of college in more debt than I started.

And you're not you're not me. I'm just telling you like, dude, you have a chance to change the entire trajectory of your life. Can I tell you something else crazy?

>> Yes, sir. >> When I was your age, the job I have right now did not exist. There was no such thing as a podcast, YouTube, social media. >> Why do I tell you that?

The thing you have right now is not going to last forever, >> right? >> And so, if it goes way up or if it goes sideways or heaven forbid even goes down, put yourself in a position where you don't owe anybody anything in the world and you've got your own place. You got some money in the bank. So when whatever happens happens, you can it will be a rocket ship for you, not a push back even further.

You get what I'm saying, >> right? You're right. Absolutely, >> bro. You got it.

You got it right in front of you, man. You got like a You got like a path in front of you. Just Jade and I are sitting like you just got to walk that path. >> 10 months.

>> Just walk the path.

>> Or you can be even crazier. Do it more.

Do it more. >> Put 6,000 in a bunk and do it in eight months. Like just get it done, man.

>> Absolutely. All right, >> bro. You could be done, dude. Done.

Done. Done. Done. Done.

>> Do you think he's gonna do it? >> No, I know he's not. Bro, listen, Rex,

if you buy crypto, like what? Whatever, dude. >> No, I think Rex might do it because he did tell me that he could spend $5,000 on it. I think he might go on ahead and do it. All right. >> I think everyone's going to give him so much smoke like, I thought you were making money. Why are you broke all the time? He's I'm trying to get >> He doesn't have to tell him. All right.

Ben is in De Moine, Iowa. Don't tell him, Rex. Hey, what's up, Ben? How are you? >> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Good. How can we help?

>> That's good. Hey, uh I'm in college and uh I'm a young 20-year-old and uh just trying to figure out some ways, some practical tips to um really be frugal

with my money. How can I stay motivated uh with that instead of spending more?

>> So, how stay motivated?

>> Yeah, motivation is a is dumb.

>> I rely on motivation for almost nothing because it's fleeting. >> Yeah. What are you What are you asking for?

>> Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's just trying to just trying to save money um in the long run to for what uh have more in the end. >> Well, it can't just be for nothing. What's the money going to be for? >> It's too big, too amorphous of a goal.

>> No, I mean, I'd say for college mainly so I can pay that off.

>> Okay. So, what are you doing currently?

tell us about your life currently and what what you're trying to get to. Because if you're trying to save up to

pay off later student loans, then I would say, well, let's talk about paying cash for college now.

>> Okay. >> What are you trying to do? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I would say just saving up trying to pay for college and then like also I'm really not working anywhere so like how can I really be frugal with that so I don't like go spend it on other stuff that I maybe don't actually really need.

>> Don't spend it on on other stuff.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. How much money do you have? What do you how much do you make?

>> Uh I mean I have like 200 with me.

>> Okay. So you got 200 bucks?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And how often do you make the 200?

Is it once a month? Once a week?

>> Uh, it's I make it once every two weeks.

>> Okay. So, you got 400 bucks a month and it's like what's the best way? If I were you, I'd throw this in a high yield savings account. When does school start?

>> When did it start? In August.

>> Okay. >> He's in class right now. >> And how much how much is it a semester?

Let's work backwards.

Uh, think it's >> Yeah. You don't even know,

>> right? >> Yeah. No, I don't. >> Yeah. Okay. Let's Let's get some real information, some facts in front of us.

>> You're asking us to do something for you, brother. With all due respect, you're asking us to do something for you that we can't do, >> which is >> if you got $200 in your pocket and you know you're going to spend it, then you have to have the discipline to put $200 in the bank >> or to give $200 to your friend. like you you've got to make choices for what you want to do.

>> Yeah, that's perfect. That's what I need. Yeah. >> Let's give you some homework. Uh number one, you're going to find out how much your tuition is >> so that you know, here's a here's something for me to aim at. Then once you know the tuition, then it's like, okay, what do I need to do to pull in um

you know, $1,500 a month so I can start to tackle some of this tuition, >> right? So now you can reverse engineer it and say, "What is that per month?

What is it per week?" And start working on that. Um, that's what I would do. Um,

right now is not the time to focus on investing or focus on anything. Uh, yeah, it's to save up to be able to pay cash because when next semester comes, you want to be able to pay cash for it. So, that that would be my biggest goal.

And if you can work some extra hours, it's okay to work part-time while you're in school. Studies show that you do better. You're a better manager of your time. So, I would do that. Um, how many hours are you working so far?

>> Um, like six usually per shift. I try to

get like 15 hours a week under my belt.

That'd be my goal. >> Or more. >> Okay. >> You know, start start with that. If your grades aren't suffering, up it a little bit, right? >> Or double it. >> Mhm. But if your grades start suffering, you need to pull back because that's the whole point. No point in paying for something that you're failing at, right?

>> Yep. Yeah. >> So, balance that accordingly. But that's that's exactly what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. And like John said, use that why, use that goal as your,

I'll use your word, motivation to do this. But it can't just be for the moment. You have to think about what life is going to feel like 4 years from now if you don't do it right. Do you want to wake up in a pile of uh 20,000 $25,000 of debt when this is all said and done?

40,000? I don't think so. So that's your motivation right there is the future. All right, guys.

Thanks for hanging out with us.

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## 73. Freedom Comes After the Hard Decisions | February 2, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:46:59 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm John Deloney joined by best-selling author, great human being, Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls [music] on money, work, life, all of it. 88255225

[music] to call in live. Let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina, and talk to AJ. What's up, AJ?

>> Hey, how's everybody doing?

>> We're doing all right. How about you?

>> Uh, I definitely need help. Um, I have

over 170 well 137K in debt and I have

66K with the IRS and I have a extra 70k with um personal

um debt including cards, credit cards and student loans. And my problem is what me and my wife every year we make more money we owe the government more.

And with the 65k that we already owe the government, the interest piles on every month.

And I'm at a crossroad because I don't know which one should we start with first. Should it be the IRS or should it

be the personal credit? Because every year we go up and bracket with our

income, we owe a extra 8,000 that's

added on to the debt that we already owe with the IRS. So, it's kind of like it's a >> Well, why aren't you paying your taxes?

>> Why does it have to keep going up is what I'm saying. >> So, Oh, yeah. So, she's a RN and I have

two jobs. >> So, during that process, um I say when

we was 23, um had somebody jeny do our taxes and we

got audited. And since we got audited, it's been a ongoing cycle for the last five years of us not getting ahead of the IRS. >> I understand. So why is it that um Okay,

let me go back and answer your first question. Yes, IRS debt needs to come first, but going forward, you need to be

paying your taxes. And what I don't want to hear you say is that the excuse is we're making more money. It's a good thing to make more money. You don't want to make less money.

And if your tax bracket creeps up, it's only for the percentage more that you're making. It's not for your entire amount. Now I'm being taxed on. Do you see what I'm saying?

It's just the the the amount over that bracket that you're being taxed on. So I don't that's an excuse. I don't want you to keep leaning on that.

What needs >> I >> what needs to happen is you need to look at your withholding and find out why why is your why are you not paying enough taxes that you're owing so much at the end of each year and it's stacking up on you. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, that definitely makes sense because uh she's Armen and I'm in uh supply chain. >> So um she had >> W2, right?

>> Yeah. But then we found out one of her jobs as a traveling nurse, it wasn't a W2. So that was >> But you didn't know that until after the fact.

>> Hey, that's what she told me. That's where we [laughter] went to.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And I was like, what? One year uh we owe

15k. >> Yeah. >> And like I said, and we pay every year and we wait till October and then it's just like when we file again, that same 8,000 we just paid, all right, is going back to this year. So I went and got

another job as a manager working night shift and that's an extra 60k and now

they put us over 220

and now we both like we don't have no dependence is just like how can we get

off the IRS train.

>> Yeah. So the making let me go back and say it again. Making more money is not the problem. Making more money if you're making $220,000 a year uh married filing

jointly great. Woohoo. Like that's great. You're rich, brother. You're rich. >> Thank you. >> You're rich.

>> The problem is, yes, you got into some hot water in the past. If she was working as a traveling nurse, she was probably bringing in some nice cash and you weren't paying taxes. Uh, that's that's that's what got you into trouble.

What you need to make sure is going forward, what is the tax status of both of you? Are you on the hook for your own as a contracted individual or are you W2 and your employer is is paying such? So, knowing that going forward, I think that you guys can sit down tonight and figure that out. Let's talk about how to tackle this debt. IRS needs to come first. Is it 65 or 56? I feel like you said both.

>> No. So, it is uh 65,296.58

right now. And every month, you know, the interest go up, >> right? So, let's pay fast enough to where you're paying more towards the actual amount. And I want to know, have you sat down and made some sort of a payment plan with them or are you just fighting for your life?

[clears throat] >> We made a uh payment plan with them. We don't own a house. So, like I said, it's just pretty much our W2s. And we uh pay

$1,100 a month to them.

>> Okay. You need to at $220,000 a year.

>> Triple that. Yes. Quadruple that.

>> Is there is there anything to say and I I'm using round numbers here. I'm not thinking about. Is there anything to say, hey, we make 220, let's live on 100, whatever that is after taxes. Can you do that in Charlotte?

>> No, because you got a car and uh that's

a,000 a month, too. The car >> your car, how much is your car worth?

>> Car worth is uh 50K.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> Uh 50k. >> Okay. So today, this weekend, I love

that it's the weekend, John, because he's going to stroll right on down there. Yeah. And you're going to sell that car and then you're going to find I don't know with this next check coming up on the 15th cuz most of us get paid somewhere between the 1st and the 15th or the 30th and the 15th, you're going to take $4,000 and you're going to buy a beater. >> Oh, you were generous.

I was going to give him three, >> but four. >> I have a question though. How how did that works with my credit? because I just got the car last year.

So, >> does Dude, you're playing all these crazy games. Like, you're never going to get off the IRS train. You have to pay taxes. If you make money in any country on planet Earth, you pay taxes.

>> no, I was saying about the cars.

>> I know. I'm just saying like you're going to have to pay taxes. When it comes to a car, like, dude, you should not be worrying about your credit score and all that nonsense. You're way in the hole. Sell the car. It doesn't matter.

All your credit score is is your it is a it's a dating game for you and debt.

>> Okay, >> that's it. So, if you don't have any debt, you don't have a credit score. Nobody cares. Nobody It doesn't matter.

>> But what I'm trying to tell you is you're playing these other game like, "How do I get off of this? How do I get off this?" You got to go straight through the middle of this debt. Sell the car this weekend, dude. Buy a $4,000 car. And you're going to be the only dude making a quart million dollars in your neighborhood driving a $4,000 car.

And you're going to be the only dude in your neighborhood in a year or two who's completely free.

M. >> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, I like that better.

>> Yes, >> definitely.

Yeah. About the personal credit. Worry about that later. Right.

>> I think if today don't even worry about it because it's not doing anything for you. It's playing no role in this. The only thing it's done is gotten you in a heap of trouble.

Think about it. It got you in a car you can't afford. >> You're not b You haven't bought a house.

You're a renter. Your credit has it.

It's It's the least of your worries.

>> The government's taking money out of your check, dude.

>> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> That is fact. >> Yeah, that is fair. >> What is your takehome every month? Like, what do y'all bring in?

>> 13,000.

>> Good grief, dude. Figure out how to live off of six. And that's being generous.

and take the other $10,000 a month and get this thing paid off in six months and stop owing the government money >> and then get on with your debt. Jade, what am I missing? >> Um, I think he's just been majoring in the minors.

>> So, it's time to focus on >> stepping over $100 bills to pick up nickels, as Lane Norton says.

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>> [music] >> All right, let's go out to Virginia Beach and talk to Renee. Hey Renee, what's going on?

>> Hi, how are you >> doing? Great. What's going on?

Um, so I recently filed for Chapter 7

bankruptcy and in the process my car was

re repossessed. So, um, right now I only

have $1,400 to my name. And I'm trying

to figure out if I should use this check to pay like the back fees to get the

vehicle back or if I should just try and

buy a vehicle in cash or a buy here pay

here. >> Oh boy. I'm sorry that you're going through that. So when they took the vehicle, have they have they already sold it? Is there already a deficit for it or what what have they told you about it? >> The vehicle right now is still on hold.

So, I'm still able to get it reinstated.

Um, but it would eat up that entire um

cash amount that I have.

[sighs] >> Okay. Um, is it just you? Do you have kids? Tell me more about your living situation.

>> Um, thankfully I do not have kids, so I only have to worry about myself. Um, my job is fairly flexible. Um, but I do

rely on my vehicle for my job. So, it's

hard for me to gauge what um how I

should invest or what the budget should be. >> Okay. What do you make? What is your monthly budget?

>> Um, I make about 3,000 a month.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, you need the vehicle and it's going to cost What's the exact amount that it's going to cost to get it back?

>> Uh, roughly $1,400. So, it's the it's

everything. Yeah.

And what I mean obviously what I guess

my question is what's changed in your situation because I what I'd rather do >> is maybe take this $1,400 add a little bit more to it and get a beater because what's changed about your situation that you'd suddenly be able to afford this vehicle is basically what I'm getting at.

>> Yeah. Um I guess nothing really has

changed. I had attempted to put some payments towards the end of the loan and

so I'm already kind of in a deficit as is. Um, and right now I guess like 1,400

is impossible for cash. It's mostly like vehicles with parts. So that's kind of where I'm struggling as far as what

budget would even be wise to look for.

Um, >> but but let's say you blow all your cash and get this thing back. You have no emergency fund. You have nothing. You just get this car back.

>> What in your life changes that says you're going to be able to make the payment next month? They just took it from you because you couldn't make the payments. >> Exactly.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> What's the vehicle What What's the vehicle worth before they took it? What?

>> Um, it's worth $10,000.

>> And what did you owe? but with

um like 10,500

and when I looked at the total loan it said I would end up paying 20,000 and the only reason I've been so attached to it is because it's a Toyota and I know they can last a long time so I guess I'm sort of afraid of that.

>> What was the payment before all this repo business?

>> 336 a month.

>> Okay. So, we were struggling to pay 336 a month. Now, I know you said you filed chapter 7. Has that already gone through? Like, what is what's that look like for you? What's the payment? Is there a monthly payment that you're making on everything or did they just take everything? Tell me tell me where you're at in that.

>> I just filed. So, they took my vehicle on Thursday and then or they took my

vehicle on Wednesday. I filed on Thursday and now they won't release it to me.

Well, what what's what's your financial picture that you had to file bankruptcy?

>> Oh, um, so mostly because of my job,

it's contract work. So, whenever I am

working, it's based on clients and we've been having issues with insurance with United Healthcare dropping people. So, it kind of fluctuates. So, when I say like I make 3,000 a month, that's really just an average.

>> That's all I'm asking. How much do you owe? >> Yeah. When you file bankruptcy, usually you have a bunch of debt that you're trying to clear out. So, we're trying to find out what what debt did you have and where did it come from? [snorts] >> Oh, it was mostly credit cards. I had probably around $60,000 in credit card debt. I have 90,000 in student loans,

10,000 on my vehicle, and then I also had a $20,000 personal loan.

>> Okay. So, the student loans remain. And so, what was cleared was the 60, the 10, and the 20. Obviously, they took the vehicle. So, when you file, they were going to take the car anyway, you know, like that that was going to happen anyway. Um, so you still got the $90,000

of student loans and now you just have no car to get to work, >> right? Is that where we're at today?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, I I stand I stand by what I said. I I think they probably took this car. Yeah. They might come after you for a deficit, but I don't think the

solution for you is to go back to paying a car payment. I think the solution for you is to go, "All right, I've got 3,000 bucks that I make a month. I've got to work like a crazy person, even if I need to take the bus for now, and I need to stack up like 4,000 bucks. I've got 14,000.

Let me see if I can double that." 1400, I'm sorry. Let me see if I can double that very quickly. There are $3,000 beaters out there. Just so you know, the car that I drive, it's a Cadillac SRX to 2013.

I've just had it for a really long time.

If I sold it today, whoever bought it would be getting a steal.

>> But that's what it's worth. >> Well, if you're out there, I'm buying.

[laughter] >> I'm just letting you know they're out there. So, don't >> you have to look for them, you know, but >> private dealer probably private sale Facebook marketplace. Go to a church.

Say, "Hey, is there anybody here selling a car? I'm in a bad jam. I mean, I got 3,000 bucks. who can sell me their car, right? And I think, you know, Yeah. Look for a Toyota, look for a a a Nissan, look for a Honda a Honda. Don't get a HHR. >> And [laughter] hey, what? >> Yeah. Or a Square Kia with one button that goes [laughter] just plays house music. Hey. Uh Okay. So, what do you do for a living?

>> Um I'm a mental health professional. So, I work with the youth. They're in home and I help them before they go into like

a facility or foster care, something like that. Are you licensed? >> And then I also >> Do you have LPC or an LMFT or something?

>> I'm working towards that. No, right now I just have a QMHP, but I'm I'm getting

my masters um in order to uh be in a

practice. >> Okay. So, you're you're you're continuing to add to this $90,000 student loan debt, >> unfortunately. Yes.

>> Okay.

Here's essentially what you what you've done with with the bankruptcy.

You've never turned the faucet off.

>> And so the faucet that buried you up to your eyeballs in debt that you called

and you filed bankruptcy for, they came with a big bucket and took some of that water out, but that faucet is still going full blast.

>> Yeah. >> You're going to find yourself in this exact same situation. And if you are able to navigate that system, which is a nightmare, helping those kids out, what

that means is you have skills at that a

local school district would want. If even if you had to go be a teacher on an emergency certification, if you had to go help out at um as a as a part-time

social worker, here's what I'm trying to tell you. You can't just sit there and say, "Well, they're taking my jobs away and I guess I'm just [clears throat] going to live in La La Land." You've got to start taking your skill set and start hitting the streets trying to find places where you can work. And you've got too much value to add. >> My long-term goal.

>> Here's the thing, and I say this with all respect. It doesn't matter what your long-term goal is right now cuz you you're you're like trying to explain to me and Jade what your beach house is going to look like. And your boat sank out from underneath you in the middle of the ocean. You got to swim to shore first. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Well, I plan to move to um a

different location to get more clients.

um in June. So that's kind of why I'm like >> that. That's great. But but even even if you max out your earning potential, what is the max on your job? 50 grand, 60 grand. >> Yeah, that's true. >> And you're going to owe 125 when you're all said and done >> like schedules. Yeah.

>> I mean, >> I definitely need more income. You've set yourself up in with a with a with a

vicious math problem and your heart is too good and your skill set is too necessary >> for you to chain yourself to this and then go out in the world and say, "Hey, I'm here to help." You get what I'm saying? >> Mhm. And so I I think all you your

future dreams, your clients that you're serving now and in the future, everybody has served if you just hit pause for a second and clean up the mess that you've

the the big hole you've dug yourself.

You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, [music] absolutely. >> And you're worth that.

It'll be real real real real real hard.

Jade, people get like a picture of what they want their life to be and it's like I'm going to do anything I can do to get there. Yeah.

>> And man, on the way,

you find yourself in a real mess. >> Yeah. She can get out of this mess, though. I believe you can. You've just got to start doing different things. If you want different results, >> you got to stop borrowing money.

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Sacramento, California. Let's talk to Amanda. Hey, Amanda. What's going on?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. How are you guys doing? >> We are freezing here in Nashville, but other than that, we're doing all right. What's going on with you? >> Good. Um, me and my partner are getting married in September.

>> Okay. And congratulations. Thank you.

We've been um we've both been on baby

step two since November. Um but we have

no fund for our wedding and we still want we want to cash flow our wedding.

So I just, you know, want some advice on what the best approach um would be moving forward.

>> Cool. I'm excited for you guys. So the wedding's in September. Uh you'll kind of have to do a couple of things at once. I think the first point is figuring out what's a fair amount of money to spend uh in ratio to the debt that you have. So kind of making a realistic number. How much debt do you guys have combined?

>> Combined we have 100,000.

>> Okay. And then what's your income combined? >> Combined um 200,000 a year.

>> Okay. Excellent. And so based on that, what do you think I'm sure there's a number that's floating around in your brain of a fair amount of money to spend on this wedding based on those figures?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, our we already have

a budget going and and that's like topping off at 18,000 um and we have about 15,000 um left of

that budget >> to save >> to to save. Yes. >> So, you've saved 3,000. And you have 15 to go.

>> Well, uh, the 3,000 we have are the down

payments on the wedding venue and the caterer. >> Okay. Okay. Uh, I I for one think that's

a fair budget if you're committed to paying cash cuz I feel like by doing that you may still also be able to make some individual headway on your individual debts.

>> Yes, that's what I'm hoping.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I this is going to sound strange, Amanda, but I want to applaud you for that budget. >> It's excellent. >> I thought you were going to come in and be like, "Well, we think we can pull it off for 250 grand." [laughter] So >> 18 18 grand in California tells me y'all are y'all are squeezing things pretty hard, right? >> I don't want to spend a whole lot of money on a wedding. This is my unfortunate my second my second wedding.

Um the first wedding was simple, but didn't spend a lot of money either. Um, but we have a lot of family members helping out as well. So, that's I think why we're able to keep it pretty low.

>> I I I think this is a great exercise for both of you to um commit to this 18

grand number and do not budge even if that means you both have to sacrifice something you you kind of wanted or you really want like whatever. But yeah, I'm with I'm with Jade. I think it's a good I think it's a good move.

>> Okay. So, uh, just continue to follow

the plan while saving some money each

month to cash flow the rest of the funds

throughout the next nine months.

>> Yeah. I mean, as much as you can get ahead, you know, part of planning the wedding is understanding what you've got to have, you know, for deposits and have ahead of time. So, as much as you can get ahead of that and not feel like you're behind the eightball, I think that's really good. So maybe sitting down with your husband and kind of plotting out um from now until September

what each month is going to look like, what each of you is going to contribute.

And that way you have a plan together.

And then you also are then able to make your plan him for his debt and you for your debt, how much you think that you're going to be able to put towards that. And I mean it's going to be a little bit it's not going to be perfect, but at least you kind of have um a sketch of what that's going to look like. >> Jade, I have a question for you. Would it make sense for there to be a single account here

that money gets put into or I'm going to come up with 9,000 and you come up with 9,000ish? >> I think uh [screaming] yeah, if you wanted to set up a fund, an account somewhere that's kind of like Switzerland and you put all the monies in there and and then everybody can see it and there's full transparency, I think that's good. And then each of you is responsible for certain tasks. It's like maybe you're like handling all the food and beverage and maybe he's handling all the I don't maybe he's handling nothing.

Maybe he just puts his money in the account. That's fine. Uh I like that idea. >> I I I I have and I'm glad you have that perspective.

My bias is so skewed because the only people who call me are when they've put all the money in the account and then they break up 3 weeks before the wedding and they don't know what to do. And so I know that's not the vast majority, but so my my bias is so skewed. So that's I think it's a good perspective. >> Yeah, that's I'm not opposed to that at all.

I was trying to think about how Sam and I did it and I really don't remember. So, I I like that idea. It's not bad. >> Very cool.

Hey, Tiffany. What's going on?

>> Hey, I'm good. How are y'all? >> Excellent. What's What's up?

>> So, I just finished Baby Step 3. Um, I work in the film industry and my income has decreased due to changes in the industry over the past three to five years. >> So, I went from making about 80K a year to now I make about 52K. Thanks.

>> So, bring home like 3,200. Um, I feel like I've hit a ceiling in my career.

And so, I'm preparing to get my MBA to gain more opportunity, but I still want to stay in my field. Um, but I also am not planning to take out student loans.

I'm looking at the scholarship route.

So, my question is, should I pause baby

step four and stockpile cash to live on

or should I try to start a side business? That's another thing I've been considering um to pay my bills while I'm in grad school. The first question is what is how how long have you been working in the industry?

>> Um, six years. >> Okay. So, what is an MBA going to give you that you seeing multiple businesses

run all at the same time? All like film

industry. There's so many different businesses happening all at the same time. I would think you have a grasp on

the quote unquote business world that very few people have. What would an NBA get you that you don't already have?

uh more opportunity specifically in the world of producing um on a studio level and that's where a lot more of the money um tends to come from and a lot of people who I've kind of talked to who have gone that track that's been a huge recommendation is to get my NBA.

>> Okay. So my second question would be can you not get your MBA and still continue to work at the same time?

>> Um that's the thing a lot of the scholarships that I'm looking into you have to be a full-time student. So, um it's not I guess it's not impossible, but it is it it would be a lot harder

where I'm not sure how, um successful I would be if I was still um if I was able to focus full-time on the program >> and it's two years.

>> Um if yeah, one program I'm looking at is two, another one is three.

>> Okay. So, even if you get a full ride, >> I want you to also calculate in the lost $52,000 per year.

>> Okay? >> So, it's going to cost you the tuition and your your you know, in the college

world, room and board, right? Like you're you're going to still have to live. You're still going to have to eat, right, and buy a computer and all that kind of stuff, >> but you're also going to have the missed opportunity of $104,000 in income over

two years. >> Yeah. And so just when you're

calculating out the ROI on what you think this is going to do for you and what you think like you're watching the film industry dissolve underneath you as everyone is across the country >> is getting into production putting all your eggs in that basket to the tune of 104,000 bucks minus two years in the workforce to then circle back like is it is that a good ROI downstream?

>> That sounds really tenuous to me. I I just have a hard and I may be totally wrong, uh, Tiffany, but I have a very hard time believing that an MBA in a classroom is going to be better than on the job experience.

Am I wrong?

>> Um, so the programs that I'm looking at with the film industry being a very much it's it's who you know slash it's where you go. It's also being able to tap into a very specific um what is it like network? Yeah, that's why I'm that's why I'm like seems like being out there meeting people, being on jobs, being on sets. I I don't know. I'm just I'm I'm

likening it to the music business. I would think that that's far more valuable than being in a classroom being taught concepts.

>> I I work both Jade and I work with film literally folks, men and women from the film industry that are here on staff

that video everything and all the things all the time and edit and cut and produce. And I don't know a single one of them has an NBA. >> I Yeah, I I I I'm not trying to You're

there. I'm not. But I've just it it doesn't feel it doesn't seem like it's going to return what you think it's going to return. And to John's point, it's a lot of time and money lost. I think if you can find a way to work while doing this and you're getting the getting it paid for for scholarships or for free, fine.

But to lose 3 years without work, I don't know about that.

>> Yeah, >> I might go back to the drawing board on that plan. And it I I I remember a lot of my students went to grad school because they were bored with their current lives or they didn't like their current jobs. And that's not a reason to pause for 2 or 3 years, take out a bunch of debt or not make an income. So just think all the way through it.

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[music]

You asked and we listened. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back by popular

demand. And currently, Nashville's covered up in ice right now, and I [music] would love to be out on a boat where it's warm. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave and the Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean. Share your story with Dave, swap jokes with George, sing karaoke with Jade, and play pickle ball with Ken, and more. If you're on Baby Step 4 or higher, join us March 14th through the 21st, 2027.

Save up to 300 bucks this week only when you book by February 1st. Cabins are limited. Lock in your spot with a $600 deposit. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseyolutions.com/events

to learn more. Let's go out to Hton and

talk to John. Hey John, what's up brother?

>> Hey y'all. Um, so I am on baby step one,

maybe two and a half. I am $79,000 in

debt at 26. Um, I got fired in March of

2025 from my job. I've been living purely on my VA income, which is about $3,000 a month at this point. And I'm

still a certified paramedic. I'm going back to school with the VA once again.

And I just really feel like I'm behind

on life at this point and really don't know where to turn with as much debt as I'm in. >> Well, dude, I'm glad you called, man.

How old are you?

>> Uh, 26. >> 26. Um,

you got you got laid off in March. How come you haven't gone back to work?

>> Uh, I have been struggling to find jobs that can work with my schedule as a student. My job that I got fired from worked pretty well with my school schedule and it really didn't conflict much. And being a paramedic, uh, the only jobs I can really find are with fire departments or private ambulance companies that have pretty oddball schedules that don't really work with school. I have a few interviews with hospitals that are hiring paramedics here in Houston, but I haven't really found much success with getting past an interview.

>> What are you going to school for?

>> Okay. >> When are you finished?

>> Uh, I'll be finished in October of 2029.

Not October, December of 2029.

>> Oh, so you're just getting started.

>> Yeah. Can I can I So, anytime I feel squashed or I feel stuck between an eitheror decision, one of the things it's just a a practice I I I run myself through and my wife and I do it is we just dump a bunch of variables on the table just to remind ourselves we're not trapped.

>> Okay. >> Because you've trapped yourself.

>> Yeah. >> You trapped yourself into this is the only kind of job and has to have this kind of schedule and I have to get this degree in this area right now.

And I kind of am locked into where I go to school because I'm on VRE as a disabled veteran. So they determine my

schooling and everything like that because they consider it vocational rehab and that's the other side of it.

>> But you can't pause for a year and get your get your feet underneath you financially. >> Uh they would require me to pay back

what they've already set forth for school.

>> All right. Then if that if that's the case, then you're going to have to pause looking for paramedic jobs, especially since that's not what you're going to school for, and you're going to have to look at becoming a teller at a local bank. Um, learning finance from the floor. It's like sweeping the floors on up.

You're going have to let that you're going to have to let that dream go for a season because here's my concern. I can hear it in your voice.

>> Yeah. And that's like getting up and

going and contributing to a thing is way

more important than making sure it's in this the field that you want or you happen to have a certification because of your military all that kind of stuff.

Brother, you need to get up where people see you and they're like glad that you're there.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Especially if if you were telling me you're going to go to nursing school or you're going to do something else like that would make sense that you're trying to get a job in a hospital. Right now, you're just pausing the workforce.

>> Yeah. >> And you're getting a degree in a totally different field. So, start getting experience in that field. So, four years from now, you got four years working at a local bank doing stuff or a local credit union and you got a degree in finance and now you're ready to hit the road. Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Jay, talk to this this good man about his money situation. >> Tell me about the $79,000 of debt. What type of debt is that?

So, I have 14,000 in student loans from

paramedic school because I wasn't approved for the GI bill when I first got out of the service. So, I have 14,000 >> in um student debt. I have a $15,000

personal loan that I use to pay off all my credit cards at the time when I was working. It was I think the interest rates on it's only 5%.

>> Okay. It was a good good idea at the time uh because it helped ease a lot of

my burden. Instead of paying multiple banks, I was just paying one loan.

>> Understood. >> And my and it's my car that's $800 a

month as well. And that interest rate is 7%. >> What's the full balance on the car?

>> Uh $ 38,000.

>> Okay. Uh where's the rest? I got 68

here.

Uh the rest is

I think uh let me see my car here. I

might have miscalculated on my car. >> Is it 48?

>> It's 48. You're right. Yeah. >> Mhm. Okay. So that's the glaringly obvious thing right now. You're basically making 4,800 from the VA a year and your car is 48,000.

>> Yeah. >> So we have that's some the good news is that's something you can make right like this weekend. >> This weekend, brother.

Okay. >> Do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> I've spent my whole savings when I first got fired. >> Okay. >> Trying to keep afloat.

>> Okay. So, here's what here's what I think the plan of action is. First off, we're going to give you every dollar cuz I think that you don't have a budget.

And so, Christian's going to pick up.

We'll get you every dollar. And that's going to help you see with the $3,000 that you're currently making. To John's point, you're going to start making more, but today you make 3,000. We're going to see how much margin you have and we're going to set a plan for how quickly can you save up a little bit of cash so that you can get out of this $48,000 car and into a cash car that

you're maybe paying four or 5,000 bucks for. That's the plan. And so that's like

I want all forces focused and trained on that mission. And then once you do that, we can say okay now we just have 30,000 29,000 to clear out here. Um and we're going to start with whatever smallest.

If the student loans are broken up to pieces, we'll start with throwing any extra money uh on that smallest student loan and do it like that. So, this is something that you can get out of. What's going to really break you free is income. That's that is the magical elixir for this entire deal here. So, imagine your life, even if you just go get a job making 36 grand, another 3,000 bucks a month.

Think how that changes your life.

>> Yeah. If you suddenly have 6,000 bucks and especially if you're doing it towards the field you want to get into, even peripherally.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Like like cleaning the trash bins at a lo at a local credit union. It gets you in the door, right?

>> Yeah, it does. >> And so I I I would exhale and put my

dreams of being a paramedic to rest and

get on about. If that's what you want to do, finance for whatever reason, if that's what you want to do, I would put all my energy going that way.

>> Okay. How upside down are you on this truck?

>> Uh, it's um not that What do you mean by

upside down? >> Do you owe more on it than it's that then you could sell it for?

>> It's a 2026.

>> Um, >> what could you What do you think you could sell it for a private party?

>> Uh, I'm not even sure on that side.

>> So, if it's anything less than 48, that would mean you're upside down. So, let's say you owe 48, but when you look it up on Kelly Blue Book, Kelly Blue Book, it

says, I don't know, 46 or 45. That'd mean that you're $2 to $3,000 upside down on it.

>> Okie dokie. >> And don't look to go trade it in. Look to sell it to somebody on Facebook Marketplace.

And okay, >> put in the put in the ad. I'm a veteran selling my truck or my car. It's in great condition. Here's what I'm asking for it. And get that sucker sold. I mean, you'll feel the weight of this just leave your shoulders like almost overnight. >> And if you are upside down, uh what you would do, uh is you would just go over to the bank uh or credit union where wherever you can get somebody to loan you the 3,000 or whatever it is.

Hopefully, you're not upside down, but if you are, that's what you would do because you're going to need the full amount uh to get the title. So, if you sell it private party, you're going to need to put whatever you owe with it in

order to get that and get a clean title.

So, [music] >> yeah. So, thanks for the call, brother. Thank you for your service. And it it feels like you are way behind and you're under a huge mountain. The good news [music] is you're only 26. You got a long way to go. You're in school. You're doing the right things. You just got to get some right things in order and you got to get out from underneath that big giant car payment. This is [music] the Ramsy Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by bestselling author and

wonderful human being Jade Warshaw taking your calls on money, life, your relationships, whatever you got going on, your work, all of it. 88 8255225.

Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona, and talk to Shelby. Hey, Shelby. What's going on?

>> Hi. How's it going? >> We're doing great. How about you?

>> Doing good today. >> Excellent. Excellent. What's going on?

>> So, I am almost out of debt. I'm so close. I can taste it. >> Congratulations. How much have you paid off >> so far? Just over 50,000.

>> Oh my goodness. I'm amazing. Great work.

What's up?

So, I'm almost out of debt, but it feels like my mom wants to keep me in debt.

Every little thing that happens, she's offering me money. Oh, just pay me back $20 a month. Just pay me back. And I don't want to do that. I'm so close. I don't want to take more money, but at the same time, it would really help me.

>> Okay. So, this is like classic temptation. Um, of course, the idea sounds good, [laughter] but you've already decided it's not good for you to do that. So, it's a moot point, right?

>> And it's something like she did loan me some money recently. I had emergency dental work done and I have a thousands dollar $1,000 saved, no more than that.

And it was a point like I need it done, but my card will decline if I try to pay it. And I'm sitting here in the dentist chair.

>> And so she's she's offering you the money is what you're saying.

>> Yes. And I took that. It felt like I gave her a little bit and now it's bigger things. Oh, you have to pay 3,000 in taxes. Let me loan you money. just pay me back someday or >> you don't have to say yes.

>> I know and I don't know how to broach that cuz it it's coming from a good place. She wants to help me and yes it would help. >> This has nothing to do with her. >> I was going to say thank you John.

>> This has to do with you like cuz you you know who else is sitting right there wanting to offer you money? Visa, Mastercard, local bank.

And I it's all in the same vein of I'm

not going to borrow money anymore.

Especially from somebody I've got a close relationship to that would drive a wedge between us.

>> Yeah. And I told her like I I don't want you to be my lender. You're my mom.

>> What did you tell a gift I would graciously [laughter] take it? She just wants me to take it.

She's like, "Oh, it would help. Let me help." >> Of course it would help. Of course it would help. >> But that's not that's not what we're doing here.

>> Yeah. >> That's not what we're doing here. And I would even go back further.

I mean, walking into the dentist,

it it it that couldn't have surprised you, right?

>> It was it was an emergency dental work.

>> I I get that it was an emergency, but every dentist I've ever met has some sort of payment plan, some sort of program, some sort of I can give you $500 today. I can give you $1,000 today.

It's going to wipe out my emergency fund >> and then I'll give you like it I don't know any dentist that doesn't have some sort of plan because they deal with that all the time. >> Yeah. Nobody has >> my plan I had there was [laughter] 1,200 today and 1,200 next week which I couldn't afford. So she did help me but now it's even bigger thing. She wants to help me pay my taxes. She wants me to get veneers for my wedding.

>> Just the answer to all that is I'm so grateful but no thank you.

>> Okay, >> that's it. And then you are going to have to go through and get wedding photos without new veneers on.

>> Yeah. You're going to have to scratch and claw and work extra and do whatever to pay your taxes by, by the way. By April, right? >> Oh, no. I'm sorry. Yeah. When When are they Yeah, by April.

>> Yes. I need uh 3,000 by then.

>> Yeah, you can do that. You're so close.

How much do you have left?

>> Um, with the 2500 my mom just gave me,

it put me back up to 9,000 left.

>> Okay. How much do you make?

I make between 60 and 90 in a year. Most of my income is bonus. >> Okay. >> Bonus. But like last year, I made a 78.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I think the biggest part of this conversation is just you making a decision and drawing that line in the sand that you don't borrow money. And when you do that, um, it just opens up your mind to creating other scenarios

for solving your problems. And I think right now, as much as it kind of feels like my mom is doing this, my mom is doing this, I kind of think that you're putting out a radar, like I think you're putting out a home, what is it? A homing signal that [laughter] that it comes to you. Uh, and I think that's that's on

you to go, you know, I'm not I'm not looking for this and I don't want this and it's just nowhere in my in my view.

And I think that's going to help a lot. And then I think it's just you saying very clearly to your mom, "Thank you, but please don't keep offering me because honestly, I'm tempted by it and I don't want to be tempted. I really want to live a debtree lifestyle and I certainly don't want to owe you money." And I think that's that on that. Um, you got 9,000 to go. You've paid off 50.

You've done a great job. I have there's no doubt in my mind that you can't finish this up and and move on to the next steps. >> And it what I'm going to tell you right now is complete and total hogwash. Woo!

Woo! Okay, this has just been my experience with any sort of finish line.

Um, I whether it's I want to get a new degree, I'm trying to lose x amount of pounds, I want to be able to run a certain time on a on a mile, whatever the thing is, almost always,

right before I get to the end, and this is woowoo, the universe sends some huge

temptation my way.

And it's it it I I've just come to look at it as it's I'm being tested. Am I

really who I say I am?

>> Right. Yes. >> And you're so close to the end. And it just feels like there's a hu like you're so close. You've worked so hard. You've you've busted your butt to pay off 50 grand and now the temptation is like, are you really all in on this deal? And I can imagine after 50 grand, making 75.

You've been doing this a while, haven't you? I actually started

going crazy at my loans back in this last April. >> Okay. So, my guess is you're tired now and you're bored of this.

>> Oh, yeah. Yes. >> I make too much money to feel like I have no money. >> Okay. Just keep going.

>> Keep going. >> Yes. >> Keep going through the boring. Keep going through the tired. Keep going through the inconvenience. You're so close. You're almost there. Making 75 grand. And when are you going to be done with this thing? 3 months.

>> I hope so.

>> Will you commit to to J that you'll be done? >> Last out of the five loans.

>> Do what?

>> I only have two of the five loans left.

So I'm almost it's it's there.

>> What's your What's your margin every month? What are you putting towards this every month?

>> Um so where I am in the snowball right

now is 510. That's like all my paid off

minimums and the new minimums. And I'm throwing maybe another 7800 towards it a month. >> 7 to 800. Um, what's your take-home

every month?

>> Ends up being about $4,000 to $5,000

plus every other paycheck I get a bonus anywhere between 0 and $2,000.

>> Every other check you get a $2,000 bonus. So, wouldn't this go a little bit faster?

It feels like it. I had a lot of moving costs that put a halt in it and my last two bonuses have been $0.

>> Okay, understood. So, you're kind of you're feeling a little bit deflated, I think. >> Yeah. >> But I I think that the last couple of weeks or even the last couple of months are not an accurate snapshot of the intensity that you have been working this. I think you've just had a couple of things that have really uh made you feel some type of way. I just want to encourage you to keep going. This is going to be gone faster um than you think. I think you just have to remember

how quickly you were going before the dentist hit, before the move hit, before all those other things. This is going to be gone before you know it, and you're going to feel a major weight off. Hey, don't forget to replace your $1,000 emergency fund. I think that's also going to help you going forward. [music] >> And when you don't believe you can do it, remember Jade and I believe in you.

Keep going.

[music]

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Let's go out to Wilmington, Delaware, and talk to Jamie. What's up, Jamie?

>> Hi. >> How we doing?

>> Good. How are you? Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a huge fan.

>> Of course. Thanks for calling. Um, so my question is, um, I have a little bit of a dilemma and I don't know how to handle it because I've already tried it in a couple different ways, but my fiance and I have been together for 20 years and I know that sounds a lot. We're not married yet. Um, >> when did you get engaged? >> We bought a h we have been engaged for 12.

>> Nice. I have so many questions, but I won't even ask them. Go ahead.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's a whole different topic. Um, so he bought a house about 10

years ago. Um, I well actually seven

years ago. I've been living with him for 10. Anyhow, when it was kind of a rush

closing and I was never put on the deed or the loan for that matter cuz my credit was never that great. Well, recently my dad passed away within the last 5 years and he had everything in order when he passed and it was it was a burden off me and my family's shoulders and I'm trying to do the same, you know, for my kids. I know I'm not going to be here forever, but whenever I bring this

up to him like, "Hey, I think I should we should put my name on here in case something happens." He either pushes it aside or he kind of comes up with stuff like, you know, your credit's bad.

they're going to come and take the house or we'll get in an argument and you know

it it's he thinks I'm just after it for

the house and I'm not. Now, on a side note, in the deed there's a clause that is a first right of refusal because it's bumped up against a business's property.

>> Okay. >> So, if it if something happens, they

would actually get the first right to buy it if it doesn't come to me.

>> Interesting. So he could like send it to his family, but his family would turn around and say, "Okay, well, I'll sell it to you for dirt cheap." But they would have the first right of refusal before I would even get it. And [clears throat] I don't know how to address it because I've always brought it up. And like I said, it just keeps pushing aside, but I would like to have

some kind of security in knowing that if

anything happens to him that I would be able to have someplace to live.

>> What is Okay. Yes. Tell me the finance

side of it. Who is who pays for the house? >> He pays he he pays for the mortgage.

Like when I moved in, the deal was he would pay the mortgage and the utilities and I pay anything extra, groceries, um

cable, anything like that.

>> And will that be the fact after you get married as well?

>> Um yes.

>> And in your mind, uh do you guys have

separate bank accounts?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's what I'm going to say.

This is controvers. You're operating separate lives. You're just living in the same house because financially you're separate. You've spent 20 years,

12 years >> betrothed and have not committed. I can

part of me understands he's just going in line with the way everything's always been. You're separate. You're not on the mortgage. You're not on therefore you're not on the deed. My money's over here.

your money's over there. Uh, I can understand why it is that way. So, unless you guys are going to fully commit, and when I say fully, I John, this is your space. But unless you're going to do that, you're getting the spoils of what you guys have put in place.

>> I I my guess is >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> My guess is and and I can be way out to lunch here because every state is so different. My guess is you'd have a common law claim to this.

>> Um, that does not go into play anymore.

>> Okay. Well, here's here's the >> I never looked into that.

>> I I would look into it, but here is the

um under the guise of behavior as a language.

I think he is telling you loud and clear, this isn't your house. It will never be your house. You can live here, but this is not yours. [snorts] You're not going to have a claim to it. Stop asking me about it.

Right.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

And there's something powerful about just clearing all of the ice and snow off the sidewalk and standing firm and saying, "This is what the sidewalk looks like." >> So, what am I supposed to do? Should I like save up and find something just in case something happens to him that I would be

>> I you have to ask yourself >> you you Is he the father of your children? >> No, he's not. >> Okay. How old [clears throat] are your kids? >> Um they're all adults. They're 27, 25, and 23. >> Okay. Do you have your own retirement, your own savings?

>> Yes. >> What does that look like?

>> Um well, my retirement is a pension.

[snorts] Um, and then I actually am on

baby step two, so my savings isn't um

that fantastic right now, but

>> Well, it should be a thousand bucks and you're trying to feverishly pay off debt. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I'm on step two and I'm I'm rolling with it and it feels wonderful right now. So, I'm hoping that that feeling stays for a long time. Th this is this is a gross simplification and I'm going to say it's going to sound rude and if we were talking in person I would take a lot longer before I said this but we've got to compress time because we're on the radio. Okay.

>> Yes. >> You've been playing house for two decades and at some point the play stops

and it feels like you are recognizing oh he could go in any day like all of us could. >> No. >> And I'm going to be left with nothing.

Yeah. >> And just to add to that, what you're requesting is a simple piece of paperwork >> to be added to the deed. That's easy. >> It's not much. It's not much. >> It's not. It's not at all.

>> And I even asked him too and I was like, "Well, if you're so concerned about it, then put one of the kids on it. You know, put one of the kids." I mean, I know they're not his biologically, but I mean, he he raised him. I mean, we've been together, like I said, 20 years, and my youngest is 23.

But but it's not just that though. It's not just that. He also hasn't married you. >> Yeah.

>> No. >> Because am I right? I don't want to I don't want to overstep. But would you have gotten married way sooner if he would have done it?

>> Um well, we were planning on getting married and that's like the whole other point is like when we got engaged, my oldest was just getting ready to start college. So, we did the whole financial aid thing and it would have really messed up my kids' financial aid. They got a lot of scholarships. They got a lot of grants >> because that would make a lot.

I understand. >> If we would have gotten married, that would have screwed up the kids' financial aid. >> So you figure, you know, every 2 years and they were going, >> but it's still been 12 years.

>> So I again, I'm not trying to overstep,

but that is saying something.

>> Yeah. Behavior is a language.

>> Okay. >> And so you here here's the thing. You can't make him do anything.

All you can decide is here is what I'm worth. Here's what I value. And I want

to be with people who think I have worth and who value me now and after they're gone.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Any self-respecting husband and

and I'm going to call him that even though y'all aren't officially married. Y'all been together for 20 years and >> yeah, >> whatever.

builds an entire ecosystem

so that his wife carries on when he's gone.

It's a It's a shame that what is it? 70 some% of households don't have a will.

It's embarrassing.

>> Yeah. >> Right. It It's a shame that you would you would possibly consider that when you die your house is going to go to somebody else and the old girlfriend's just going to be out on her own. It's it's it's it's so shameful. I'm embarrassed on behalf of men everywhere.

Yeah. I mean, and the property is beautiful, you know, and it's just >> it doesn't matter if it's a one-bedroom shack. It's been y'all's, but he he's on

the piece of paper. And anytime you bring it up, he makes you feel dumb for it. >> Let me say it this way. You're not crazy.

>> You just get to decide what's next.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And like Jade said, it's not a it's very it's it's it's a very low stress thing to add you to a deed.

Exactly.

[clears throat and snorts] >> It just is. >> But my guess is he has actively kept you

off the deed because this is his house that you are living in that he's paying for that he's going to pass on to his family. And if that's the case and you get to and you decide to stay with him, great. You need to make other opt make other plans with savings, paying off debt, getting yourself set up for the inevitable day when one of you till death does you all part, right? Um or you can say, "I'm worth more than this.

I'm I [music] just am. And I'm going to be with somebody who's going to care for me now and sets up a plan for me after I'm gone.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

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And it may not be available in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Briana in Nevada. She says, "When I try to explain to my husband what a waste it is to eat out, he gets offended. I tell him, we can eat out for 100 bucks and never see that money again, or I can buy

groceries for 100 bucks and that lasts for a week." His response is always, "But eating out still fed you, so you

survived." What? Okay. He's trading the

convenience of eating out for our long-term goals of paying off debt and saving for a down payment. How can I convince him that eating out is keeping us from reaching our financial goals?

Okay, so I think what's actually at play

is just two sets of values here. Um,

he's willing to go to a certain extent to pay off debt and you're willing to be

to go beyond the extent that he's willing to go, if that makes sense. Um,

oh boy. Oh boy. Okay, so I wish these are the ones, John. I wish we had more to it.

I'd love to know how much debt they had. I'd love to know what their income is. I'd love to know a little bit more. >> I want to know who cooks in this house and maybe it's not great.

>> Yeah. Um >> we have to eat out. >> Honestly, facts. Like there's that that is a real part of it.

Some people some people eat to survive and eat to live and other people eat for enjoyment. I'm a person if it doesn't taste good, I I just I don't eat it. I'd rather eat two bites of something that's delicious than a whole meal of something that's terrible. Like I I just can't.

So my guess is you're probably going about this all wrong.

people. Um, I'm guessing it's a I'm

guessing you guys never aligned on why we're doing all of this to begin with.

>> That's it. To me, this looks like to me like like eating out has become the proxy war >> for the real issue, which is we're not aligned on >> why this is >> sacrificing to get to a common goal.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and oh boy, let me just

tread into this for a second. And

the truth is there's two people, right?

Uh he has a set of values. You have a set of values. You want to align on how are we going to do our money. You have

to decide which hills you're going to die on cuz you're trying to get in many ways, you're trying to get a little deer to come to you and do these baby steps.

You don't want to scare it away. So, if everything else is like trucking along and it's like, "Hey, we're making progress. This is just the one area that they're a little bit reticent to to come on board." Oh, all right. Like, what what's a way that we can slowly make that transition versus bashing somebody on the head of you're doing 99% of the things I asked you to do? Where's the and and then you're you're slamming them for the 1%, right? Um maybe uncommon

opinion, but maybe that's >> maybe it's better than we think, right?

Does that do you >> say can we agree no appetizers, no drinks, >> and we don't have to get ribe eyes >> and do we have to eat out? Does it have to cost 100 bucks or can it cost 40 or could it cost 35? >> Right. >> I would just hate for this one thing to be the bone of contention when so many other things are maybe on track or hitting right. >> And it it usually is one of two things, right? It's that it is somebody that

you know amazing is the enemy of perfection, right? It's got to be perfect. Or this is one of many, many places where they're not aligned. This is just the easiest place for everybody to land.

Yes. Right. And we fight about we fight about eating out. We fight about money.

But there's that's just the tip of the iceberg. >> Yes. And and only only Briana knows that. If that's the case, then 100% there's there's many things at stake here.

But if truly you can look at the situation and go, it's like my husband making up the bed every day. He's making up the bed. He may not do it exactly to the tea the way I [laughter] make up the bed, >> but the man is making up the bed.

>> I'm just going to leave that right there. >> And let me flip that around. I make the

bed often. It's kind of like whoever's the last one out makes a bed.

>> And I notice sometimes that I come back in after making the bed, >> she's redone it. >> It's nicer than when I did it. Yeah. And that used to make me mad. I used to be like, "Oh, I'm not." And now it's like, you know what? She can do whatever she wants. She didn't say anything and she just went back in and remained. >> Tied it up. Awesome. Amazing. We both won. We both won. And here's the deal, Briana. At the end of the day, you don't have to go out.

>> Yeah. He could go by himself. >> You don't have to go out to eat. You can say, "I'm going to save that money and I want to uh stay committed to the goals that we made." And so, if you feel like you need to go out, great. Um, I'll just stay here and eat eat the napkins in the glove box because I guess somebody's got a >> It's leading by example, which is pretty awesome. I'll just have yogurt and granola and we'll call it or whatever.

Um, but you don't have to go. You don't have to go. You've got more autonomy in this thing than than you think you do.

Um, but I I don't know. I think there's a conversation beneath this conversation, which is we are we aligned on this deal. >> I agree. >> All right, let's go out to San Antonio, Texas, and talk to Lily. Hey, Lily.

What's going on?

>> Hi. Yes. So, I am

currently enrolled in um an online class

at GCU. I'm studying for education and

they have me with they put so for my

account they linked it with like the FAFSA subsidized loan. However, my mom

offered to take out equity on the house

>> and then pay her back.

>> Okay. What if you stopped doing everything that you're doing except for going to school and just doing that somewhere else?

>> Yeah. So, I currently also work full-time and the program at GCU is one

class every eight weeks and that really

works for >> Did you say at TCU?

>> GCU. Yeah. GCU online university.

>> Yeah. >> So, a a private online faith-based university.

>> Yes. >> Woo. very expensive. Correct.

>> Yes, it is.

>> And >> that's 1,500 per class.

>> Okay. >> Oh gosh. >> Whereas you could get a teaching certificate. And by the way, and I I don't want to be that guy, but I'm going to be that guy for a second.

>> I worked a full-time job and got two PhDs while working full-time jobs.

>> Okay. >> It was not fun. And had kids. It was not fun. It was miserable. >> Right. >> And we just like you you do it for a season and then you get on about your life. >> Right. Right. And so you're you're picking a very expensive place

and now it's all the way to where your mom's considering putting her house on the block.

>> Exactly. >> Please don't do that to her.

>> Exactly. No. And that's what I told her like I don't I don't want to do that.

>> Don't do this to yourself. Don't do this to like there's there's this tells me that you didn't look through a whole bunch of other options because there are other options in your area. >> Why does it have to be this one in your mind? In my mind, it's because it's online and it's more flexible.

>> Oh, so we're just looking for flexible online school. That's the criteria. I love that. That means there's tons of options. >> Tons of options.

>> Yes. Yeah. I I also saw the Western

Governor's University G. >> Yes. WGU.

>> How much cheaper is that one?

>> A lot. A lot. >> A lot. A lot. And by the way, I've worked at multiple faith-based universities. private schools. I love them. I'm a huge believer in them, but I'm not a believer in mortgaging your souls for it. I'm not a believer in your mom putting her house on the block for it. >> Exactly. >> Right.

>> And so, yeah, I I I would you you feel like you've boxed yourself in. So, I I mean, that's not why you called, but I I want you to be a teacher. We need more great teachers out there. We really really do.

I don't want you to go into debt up to

your eyeballs and then, you know, have your mom breathing down you. I I just The whole thing seems like a mess.

>> Exactly. And that's what Yeah. That that is why I was calling because I don't I didn't feel comfortable about it.

>> Yeah. And so I I didn't hear your original thing. Your FASA is linked to who? So, like I guess the way I did it when I applied to GCU, they linked my account

to do the the FAFSA subsidized loan. So,

it was already going to start cuz I got some money from the Pell Grant, but then after that money runs out, they were going to start putting it on the loan.

>> Yeah. But I bet the Pell Grant will cover it will cover um Western Governors.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And just quick question, do you guys recommend that one

or like >> I recommend here's what I recommend.

Don't borrow money.

>> Yeah, [music] exactly. >> And if you start with that as a chief principal, it narrows your options. And if you're really um if you really want to like determined to be a teacher, you'll find a way and you'll be tired and you'll be exhausted and you'll have to do things that are inconvenient, whatever, but you'll get out and you won't owe anybody anything. So that's what we recommend. [music] But check out check out other options if that's your criteria because there's many out there.

[music]

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Let's go back to Houston and talk to

Dustin. Hey Dustin, what's going on?

>> Hey John, how are you? >> I'm good brother. How are you man?

>> I'm doing well. It's a pleasure to talk to both of you. >> You too, man. >> A long time listener and a first-time caller. I just need some guidance. Um,

my question is, would you guys recommend me buying a house even though I don't like the job I'm currently in.

>> I am 28 years old, single, never

married, and no kids. I have a good down

payment of about $93,000,

various stock options of about 13,000,

44,000 in an IRA,

18,000 of 3 to six months of emergency fund, and 35,000 in 401k. As you guys

can tell, I have been saving money for

years at this point, and I'm just in a

job that I'm not really passionate about, and I need you your guidance, please. >> I mean, if you think that there's going to be the opportunity for you to move cities here coming up in the next 3 to 5

years, yeah, I might I might not I might not put down roots just yet. What What do you think the horizon would be for you moving jobs?

Um, I'm open to it. I've been based here

in Houston, um, my whole life, and I've always wanted to move cities, make a big

change like that. Um, >> what's holding you back? >> Ever? >> Uh, family. Uh, my family is I'm really close to my family and we're all within a 10-minute span of each other right

now. Currently live with my mom. Um, so

it's been a big blessing being here with her. Um, I'm just not really sure if I'm

ready to make that change.

>> It doesn't sound like it's you're at a place to buy a house yet. Um, and I I always have just an internal hesitation

anytime somebody says quote unquote they're not following their passion. Um,

unpack that for me a little bit. Do you hate your job?

>> It's a job. I'm I'm not passionate about it. >> Okay. What what what what have you created outside of work that makes you feel alive, that brings you joy, that hobbies, friends?

>> Hobbies. Um, honestly, this investing,

as you can tell, I've been I love investing. I love talking to friends about it. It's something I'm truly passionate about.

And originally whenever I went to school, I went to school for this. Um,

and things happened and I had to shift

gears.

Um, just not really sure where the

>> Here's where I'd rather you spend energy and and Jay, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this because you've you've made similar changes like I have. I I I

would prefer here's the thing. Any path you take is going to be challenging.

Staying at home challenging.

buying a house in Houston, staying in a great job that you just don't I mean, it's just a job and trading on the side because it lights you up and hanging out with dudes who like to trade and y'all like talk about that like that'll be challenging, too.

Packing up and moving to New Jersey, you're going to go with you, right? Or wherever city you end up in. And just for an adventure, you'll go with you.

So, your same concerns and insecurities, all stuff will go with you. That's going to be a challenge. And so you've paralyzed yourself with, I don't know about this. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I'm interested in you backing all the way out and asking yourself the old Mary Oliver quote. What am I going to do with my one reckless tiny little life?

Like, who do I want to be? What do I think is fun? What do I think is adventurous? You've set yourself up financially pretty amazingly.

And if if staying with your family is is most important, cool. It's going to come at a cost. And if going on adventure is most important, that's going to come at a cost. And if safety and security, like

with your job, even though you're not like wildly in love with it, that's going to come at a cost. Quitting this and going all in on a new career, that will come at a cost. So all all your paths are going to come at a cost. It's just you choosing which one do you want to do. You're not attached to anything else. >> Yeah. I mean, when I listen to what you said, it's kind of to me, obviously,

there's no wrong choice here, but the obvious is the life you have. You've been doing that. Like, you've tried it, so there's no unknown there. Why not do the thing that's the unknown? So, you can get some research on that.

>> Yeah. >> Right. If you stay where you are, you learn nothing new. But if you actually go try the things that you're thinking of, maybe I do want a different job. Maybe I do want a change of scenery. Go actually try it because Texas will be waiting for you if you ever want to go back.

>> Absolutely. >> What do you do for a job now?

>> I currently work in oil and gas.

>> Okay.

Last I checked, that's not going anywhere, right?

>> No, sir. >> And And you're pretty good at it.

>> I I believe so. >> Okay. So finding a place,

especially back in Houston, which is one of the oil and gas meccas, wouldn't be

super difficult. It might be hard to come right back in with your stock options and same salary and all that, but you'd find your way back because you're good at what you do.

>> Yes. >> Fair. >> Yes, sir. >> I It sounds to me, brother, like you've set yourself up for just a moment as this to to either take a risk like Jade says, you you know the life. I love that. like you you you know >> you already know this >> you know this life >> and if it's more more than not bringing

you the life that you want to have cool >> um or you set yourself up financially to really um jump off the bridge and see if

you can fly and if you hate it great we'll be back in six months we'll be back in a year we'll be back in two years um Jade one thing I hear a lot is

people think if I take this job or if I move to this city it just feels like forever Right. And it's there's some freedom in realizing >> no, it it doesn't have to be forever.

>> I mean, specifically in his case, he's single. He's completely unattached.

There's nothing keeping him. If he goes to New Jersey and hates it, there's nothing from keeping him from saying, "Well, let me try Montana. All right. I hate that.

Let me go to Utah." Right now, it's different when you, you know, are up and moving a family of four and everybody's dependent, you know, like obviously there's things that can make, uh, create more stakes there, but for a guy like this, he's 28. his family will be there. You know what I mean? He's got >> Listen, you got all the time in the world.

>> Yeah. >> I would I would go try it. In your case, why leave anything on the table? When we used to play basketball back in the day, they'd say, "Leave it all on the court." >> Yeah.

>> And it's the same thing. Like, don't be looking back thinking, "Man, I wish I I wonder what it would have been like if I had just fill in the blank." >> And normally, we take this call from folks who are 100 grand in debt, who've got kids, got other responsibilities, and we're like, "Whoa, slow down. Slow down. Slow down.

This man, you've done the exact opposite, Dustin. You've built yourself a great diving board platform to jump off from. So, yeah. I I final answer.

I say go. >> Yeah. Go. >> Go do something wild and set a deadline on it.

And always feel free to come back.

leap you've taken? >> Coming here. >> Coming here. Yeah, me too.

>> Yeah. I mean, all all of my career choices have been a leap, but this is the most recent one.

>> Yeah. It was a leap to for us to pack up from all of our friends and family and move across the country and then it was an even crazier leap to leave everything I knew to come to this math house.

>> I think the hardest thing well it might

be different for people but I think the community aspect like what he said my family's here my friends are here. I think that's the hard thing because uh it takes time to build those those things. You can go to a job and have a salary and have a check a month later right? uh you can put money down on a house and have that instantly, >> but the things that really make life life and make you you are the people and

the relationships and those are things that take a lot of time and so [snorts] the risk is greater. Um because it takes

time to see, okay, if I put in and put in and put in, am I going to get the reward after however many years? Maybe you will, maybe you won't. >> Right. Well, and my wife, if I could go back seven years ago when we moved to Nashville, uh, or eight years ago now,

that I that's what I would tell myself.

My wife immediately plugged in with a gang and it's it's been amazing. And I've been here 8 years and I'm just now settling

into, hey, the power has been off for 5 days. I got some guys I can call, right?

And so there is when you pack up and move and you leave family, leave friends, you have to be highly intentional about saying, "Not only do I have to get a job and not only do I have to turn the internet and the power on, I got to get a gang.

[music]

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw taking your calls live. Let's go out to Las Vegas [music] and talk to Stephen. Hey Stephen, what's up man?

>> What's up John? How you doing buddy? >> I'm doing good brother. How can I help, ma'am? >> Well, uh, so I'll try to, uh, we'll make this, uh, brief. Uh, I, uh, my wife and I were on baby step two. Uh, we're making great progress. Matter of fact, earlier today, I made the last payment on a credit card. Got it paid off.

>> That a boy. Way to go, dude.

>> We did. We're getting honestly, I I'm loving it. And I told my wife, I don't care if I'm a multi-millionaire, I'm still going to be shopping at thrift stores. I don't see a reason to change that. >> Very good. >> Um, >> now what's going on right now is with my It's with my mother-in-law. Uh she my

wife and I have been married for several years. We have a son. Uh I work so she can stay home and be with our son and I'm very grateful to be able to do that.

Uh she is very very pushy when it comes to money and she's made some really stupid financial decisions and she's gotten she's tried to force my hand several times. Um when we when we first

got married I lived in Georgia. She moved in with me of course after we got married. >> Are you talking are you talking about your wife or your mother-in-law? Who's pushing? >> My wife. No, my my mother-in-law, Lord help us. No, my wife. Um, she uh so my

mother-in-law was pushing me to sell my house at a time when the market was down and we'd have been 20 grand in the hole had I sold it at that time. She tried to get my wife to leave me if I refused to sell it at that time. >> Oh boy. >> And she's pulled stunts like that several times and recently tried to get me to buy a house and I told her, "Look, the market is up.

If I buy it, the market's going to correct and we're going to lose a ton of money." >> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Like, this has nothing to do with any of that stuff. The only thing that that matters here is you continuing to give your mother-in-law's wisdom and her advice and her threats and her demands. All of that is about power. That's not about home ownership.

>> It is. And it's my wife is kind of the good child. And so, she's always been scared to not do what my what her mom says. She's gotten a whole lot better. She's come a long way. I'm really proud of her. How does your mother-in-law even know the things that are going on [laughter] in your in your house?

>> Is your wife telling her? Is your wife talking to her about things that they shouldn't be talking about?

>> She's not said a whole lot, but she does tell her some things. And early on in our marriage, she told her too much. She's quit doing that. >> Good. >> Um >> Okay. She needs to be the one that tells her mom, "Hey, mom, thank you for the wisdom and the advice, but me and my husband got this." >> Yeah. And when I guess one of the

questions, part of the problem is I told my wife, look, we're going to have to draw some lines in the sand with your mom. And there's going to have to if she crosses those, there's going to be have to be consequences. >> Wait, why? Because why? Why don't you just let her mom say what she's going to say and you'll go on about your lives?

>> Yeah. What What's a consequence in your mind? >> Well, it's she's I I honestly don't know at the moment.

It's just that she's caused conflict between my wife and I over this. Okay.

But but you your your mother-in-law is becoming a proxy war for the real issue, which is are you and your wife aligned on how y'all want to do your life?

>> We are much more honestly the longer we've been married, the more aligned we are. >> Okay. I I want y'all to reenter back on that.

My My dad and I see different differences in politics. We see differences in economic. We see differences all over the place.

>> And so when I'm around him, you know what he does? He does what a dad should do, which is he tries to tell me what I need to know. [laughter] Right. And and I get to decide I'm

cutting you off or I can listen and there there's been some some some wisdom in some of the stuff he's told me over the years. In fact, there's been a ton of wisdom and a lot of it I go that's great, man. As for you in your house, you and my mom, y'all get to do that. But me and my house, me and my wife, we're going to do something different. It's great.

>> Right. >> Right. >> Fair enough. Fair enough. And and if if she's actively trying to divide you and your wife, >> that's the real issue is that your wife has to put her foot down on that because it's her mom, >> right? >> And if she won't, then you and your wife have an issue, not you and your mother-in-law.

>> And you know, we've come along like like I said, we don't really have as much near as much of an issue anymore. I mean, my wife is >> Oh, whoops.

Go ahead, brother. Sorry, man.

>> No, it's all right. My wife has kind of come into her own quite a bit. She was very scared to make her mom mad. When we first got married, she's no longer that way. >> Sure. And that's common. That's common.

>> So, it's gotten better, but something is it's even though it's gotten better, you're still pushed to the point of calling a radio show. >> Yeah. Your mom your your mother-in-law can't force you to do anything legally, morally, ethically, spirit, like you you can't be you can't feel forced, right?

You can just hang up the phone.

>> Right. Fair enough. I I think that's a

place to I think that's where we need to start. We're working on life goals and

uh we're going to homeschool our son and I mean we're very old school traditional Christians, conservatives and uh >> great. I mean but it only matters if you and your wife are aligned on this and then when y'all get aligned on it then y'all decide together who gets a vote,

>> right? And I my my position is if you're not paying the bills, you don't get a vote. I mean >> what does that mean? Yeah. I I >> Well, if you're not part of our household, I should clarify that because my wife stays home with my son. >> That's what I was thinking. Okay.

>> She clearly gets a token. I mean, she's working regardless. >> Well, listen. And for whatever it's worth, I've got other men and women in my life who don't pay my bills that I

have given permission to speak into my life. If they see me acting in a way or saying things that they're like, "Hey, that's not you." Or, "You're about to do something stupid with your money." Like, I've given them permission. I'm not just gonna like loan ranger this thing.

That's how people like just ride their horse off the cliff.

But all I have to say is >> you can't do that until you and your wife are aligned on who we are going to be.

>> That's that's good advice. Um I mean our

I our pastor's been a great help to us and I've been forever grateful for his wisdom. I've been grateful for you guys wisdom because following the baby steps I'm really loving it.

>> Well, that's awesome. But but but I think personally and Dave and I have talked about this over dinner before multiple times. I think the magic of the baby steps is in married couples, it it

it's a way to force alignment or ways to not force alignment but to force discussions about alignment.

And when a when a when a couple gets aligned, there's just no stopping them.

But if one of y'all is all aligned on

your values and you're dragging somebody else along on these baby steps and their and their mother keeps calling to pull you off and it becomes even a conversation that tells me you and your wife aren't fully aligned on where are we going and who are we going to be and then who gets a vote into the steps we're taking.

>> You've given me some things to think about. >> Is that fair? >> Yeah. No, it's very fair. You give me some things to think about. Actually, it's >> Can I tell you a way to do this? Cuz I have a feeling you're going to go home and tell your wife, "You're not aligned with me." And that would be the wrong way to do it. >> No, not at all. Not at all. Absolutely.

I want >> Here's what I want you to do. I want you, not her, I want you to call

somebody to watch your son for about three or four hours, one Saturday morning. You set it up. And then you take your wife and say, "I want us to have a dreaming retreat.

We're into this baby. We're into this baby steps thing. We're paying off our debts." But we started sprinting before we really counted the cost of how far we're going to run here. Who do we want to be? And y'all dream about what you want your house to look like, what town you want to live in. As a part of that, [music] we're going to dream about who gets a vote in our life.

>> And y'all come away from that retreat totally unified. You get what I'm saying? I do. I love it. My wife will love that, too. >> Awesome. Excellent. My brother, deciding

[music] um the identity first. I'm going to be the kind of person who takes care of themsel. I'm going to be the kind of person borrow money. Then I'm going to reverse engineer goals and steps that allow me to get to that identity, not just take off sprinting to follow the next goal. Right? If you chase an identity with action, you'll get there.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> to Baltimore to talk to Catherine. Hey, Catherine. What's up?

>> Hi.

>> What's going on?

>> Hi. Um, I am a single mom and um my

child support ended abruptly last month.

Um, and I'm just had um I have a

mortgage and I have $77,000 in a heliloc

that I just opened and I'm just trying to figure out how to get everything

um paid um the debt and everything. It's

just very overwhelming. I knew my child support would end probably June. I was

looking for part-time jobs to compensate

for the loss. Um but this was just very

um unexpected and I just um have a lot

of stress. >> How much was it?

>> Um the child support was 900 a month.

That was a big amount >> for one kid or two or

>> um it was for two. However, he didn't

end it when my son turned 18. And I don't know why. Um >> the judge or your >> the judge or your ex? the ex-husband.

>> What's what's the court order?

>> Um, till they're 18.

>> Okay. So, can you fight this if he is

choosing not to early? Like, what's the >> what's the situation surrounding him not paying until 18?

>> I don't know. His um current wife does not allow him to talk to me. My guess is he kept paying on your other child and there was a net dollar amount.

>> Yeah, possibly. >> Once he crossed that net dollar amount threshold, it stopped.

>> Okay, >> that that that'd be my guess. Have you contacted an an attorney?

Um, I actually went to child the child support um, office building and they

said because she's still in high school under Maryland law, he cannot just cut the child support. Um, so I had to get

an official document from the school and provide it. Um, but for right now, I'm

out that extra $900 a month with all

these other bills coming in.

>> Okay. >> Okay. I I have a feeling, don't get me wrong, uh he should pay for the the

kids. Um but I have a feeling there's a lot more that's part of this equation that's making this even tougher. You mentioned a $77,000 heliloc. Can you tell me a little bit more about your personal finance, what you're earning, um how old the kids are, all of that stuff? >> Yeah, sure. Um my my kids are 18 and 24.

Only the 18-year-old lives at home. I own my house. Um I owe 200 the first

mortgage and 77 on the heliloc.

>> Okay. >> Um I have a $10,000 personal loan I'm

paying on. Um I have a car payment. Um I owe I

think $20,000 still on my car. Um I do

have $4,700 in savings, so that's good.

>> What do you do for living?

Um, I am a CNA, certified nursing

assistant. >> Okay. What does that bring you in every month? >> Um, about 3,200.

>> Okay. And how much is your mortgage again? >> Uh, my mortgage is $12.91.

>> Okay. >> Plus the plus the helock.

>> Yeah. Then the helock is $4.90.

>> Oh, mama, that's what's getting you.

>> Why did you take out a $77,000 helock?

um because I had a credit card that and

the minimum payments were getting up to

like 300 to 350 a month.

>> So you traded 350 a month for 490 a month.

>> Um well that I mean that was just one credit card.

>> Okay. >> So overall it was like almost $1,000 in

minimum payments.

>> Okay. So we can't we can't really go back. But the logic there was flawed.

Um, is what John is trying to tell you.

Because now we're paying 1,800 bucks a month to live where we were once paying 1,291 and it was way more reasonable with your income. Woo girly. I think

that you put yourself in a really tough spot because this is now your home that's on the line and it is now half of

your income. Um, more than half of your income. So, for that reason,

unless you see your income going up

drastically here soon, you put your

house on the line cuz you you can't have your your your mortgage can't be 50% of your take-home pay. >> How much equity do you have in this house?

>> Um, high 95,000.

>> Oh, so you barely have enough to even clear the HELOC.

Sheesh. >> Okay. Um, here's here's the options. I'm going to just shoot you straight. Option one is you figure out a way to increase your income drastically because here's the thing. Your child's 18. Even if the child support lasted until June, it was still going to go away, which means by

June, you still would have been in the same situation with your income. Uh, so

while I wish that you were still getting that money, in the grand scheme of it, it's kind of neither here nor there, um, it was buying you a little bit of time here. So unless we can figure out a path to get your income up very very much,

you might have to sell this house. And when you would sell it, what you would do is pay off the $77,000 heliloc and

maybe have a little bit left to clear

out some of this personal loan, possibly all of it. It just depends on what the fees are. And then what you could turn around and do is sell your car and use

the 4,700 you have saved and buy a cash beater and you're completely square >> and you're starting you're debtree but you're starting from scratch and you're rebuilding something really new and something really awesome.

>> And I just told you a lot.

>> I just wrecked I just up I I realize what I did and I don't expect you to go okay. I expect you to go home and >> sob. Yeah, it's hard.

>> Yeah, >> but I mean it when was the divorce?

>> Oh, 2010.

>> Okay.

It sounds like there's been some sort of

[sighs] I don't want to say punting, but some sort of kind of bending around reality that over the last what 16 years

you've racked up $75,000 in credit cards,

bought a car you couldn't afford, tried to keep this house together for the kid.

You get what I'm saying? Like I I get it. And man, I talked to so many folks who've been divorced and are trying to hang on to what was and trying to give the kids a good life and I all that stuff is admirable and noble, but you just reached a line where like the math isn't working for you anymore. You have a you have a big math problem.

>> Yeah. >> Are you working full-time?

>> Yes. >> Okay.

The I guess the other opportunity like the other option like Jade said is you just try to hang on to everything and

you decide for the next three to five years you're going to work every overtime shift. You're going to work Saturdays, Sundays and you're just going to live that life

and that's going to be that's a very tough life sustainability wise because even if you clear out all this debt then you would be tackling the mortgage and you're still at 50%. So, the margin that you have to put towards this debt, I mean, you'd have to go crazy uh with overtime and you'd have to do it for quite a while. So, just putting that putting that out there if you're up for it, more power to you. But, um it's a

journey, >> right?

No, I understand. Yeah.

>> I hate this for you.

>> It is what it is, I think.

>> Yeah. Have you sat down with your kids and just kind of been honest about here's my financial position?

>> Um, yes. I mean, the one that lives with me. Yes. >> Sure. Okay.

Yeah. I mean that Go ahead.

>> I was going to say there's part of it.

It's a perspective thing. Obviously, I the suggestions I gave are neither fun,

but >> there's part of that I I kind of like the idea of a fresh start. That could be really a great adventure for you.

um and scary but also really really

great. The the the debt is gone, the mistakes are gone, the kids are gone, and you're just now out here living your best life. That's pretty awesome.

>> Well, and I can say my wife and I did very similar. We sold the house, sold stuff, moved into a dorm. You've made similar sacrifices. And it looked at the time to my friends and community were crazy >> and but it was a path to freedom. It was the fastest path I could get to. Yeah.

And >> at [music] how fast do I what's the what's the fastest way to get to between two lines, right? I'm just going to fly. >> It's [music] not taking a step backwards. It's taking many many steps very quickly forward >> to get to service. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a tough pill to swallow, but that's the mathematical reality.

[music]

[music]

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

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[music]

Everyone [music] needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck. And it's hard to find agents who know what they're talking about. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. Go to ramseyolutions.com/coage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Let's go out to Phoenix and talk to Bridget. Hey, Bridget.

What's up?

>> Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Of course. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm wondering uh how I should go

about paying for a new AC unit for our

house. We don't have any cash to pay for

it.

>> All righty. Um, tell us what money you do have. What are you earning every single month?

Uh, [snorts] my husband makes $5,939

a month after taxes before insurance.

>> Okay. >> I am a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. And there's no there's zero money

saved is what you said.

>> We have $1,800.

>> $1,800.

>> Yes. >> Okay. What's it going to cost to get the new AC?

>> Uh, we got two opinions. Um, one smaller

business guy said it was going to cost about $10,000. And then a more

well-known business in our area said it would be about 15,000, but that they could offer rebates that could get us down to about 12.

>> Okay. Um, >> but I've heard I'm sorry. I've I've heard that the rebates can be difficult to get. >> Sure. So, is it completely out? Is it completely dead? You're sitting there in the cold.

It's not completely dead. Um, it's our it's our air conditioning unit. Um, the heat sitting really hot.

>> Is there a possibility you can let it ride for 3 months since we're in the middle of winter?

>> Um, there is a possibility. Yes. Um, but

of course in in Phoenix in the summer,

demand gets a little bit higher, the prices of things go up. So, we wanted to get ahead of it if we could.

>> Yeah. But but here's the thing. >> It got hot and we needed to turn it on. I get that you just don't have the money for it.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But there could be time to save money and get it done before June or before

May hits. Um what's >> I am currently using the Every Dollar app and I am in the red. Um I I have

only used Every Dollar app this month.

Prior to that, I was uh budgeting in a book for about six months and I wasn't

really getting anywhere.

>> Okay. >> Um tell me about being in the red. What what what are you seeing that is the

issue?

>> Um we have a car payment and credit card

debt. Um a little bit of medical debt and a little bit of a private student loan.

>> Okay. Right now >> it's about 1,400 in debt a month.

>> That's that's minimums.

>> Yeah, that's all minimums. >> Okay. And then how much is your mortgage or your rent or whatever? uh one 1,100,

but my husband pays an extra $100 on

that. >> Okay. So, that's definitely not the problem. So, we've got about $2,500 here. Tell me where else is the problem because we've got a great mortgage.

We've got minimums covered. Where is the other um >> 2600 going?

>> Um we're spending about 850 on groceries

a month. There's six of us. Two adults, four children. >> Yep. Great. >> Um, three, two of them are teenagers,

one of them is in elementary school, four-year-old. >> I think that's great. So, now we're down to 1,800.

>> Um, >> do you see what I'm doing here? I'm trying to I'm trying to pinpoint the issue. There's something here. Do you have daycare?

>> No daycare. >> Okay. There's something here that's eaten your lunch. um you'll be able to see it in every dollar, but right now you're kind of in a point of a little beyond four walls.

It's like, okay, I've got to make sure I'm paying the minimums on everything. Obviously, I got to keep food on the table. Obviously, I got to keep the m mortgage covered. We just covered that unless there's some medical thing or a lot of insurance that I don't know about.

Uh my goal right now would be a little bit of a storm mode and I'm not trying to pay anything extra. I'm just trying to figure out what's putting me in the red and is it something that I can tweak and change because we have a countdown clock that's set for like May 1st that we've got to get to. So, not only do I have to figure out what's putting us in the red now, the next thing is okay, where can we bring in more money? Is it something that you can pick up work?

Is it something that your husband can pick up work?

>> Yeah. Um, we are spending about $820 a

month in insurance premiums.

>> Okay. >> Um, and my husband, he is a an executive

sue chef. He works from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. >> Mhm. >> 5 to 6 days a week. Uh, he could not pick up anything. I could try to do something. Previously, my job, uh, I was

cooking as well. >> Got Um, and uh, now I just I have to

have the flexibility to drop off all the kids at school and pick up all the kids.

That industry does really >> four. Three of them are in school and I have my four-year-old at home. >> Four-year-olds at home going to go to school soon for kindergarten, I'm guessing. So, back to the budget. I'm still having $980 that I'm seeing that's unaccounted for and it's probably going here or there. But that's what I want. I want you to get to the point and you got to of what is like necessity because you

guys are in a necessity mode. If it ain't a necessity, clocking it out of the budget because you can't afford it.

You need whatever money you can find that you're going to add together with this $1,800 that you already have saved to start to be able to get closer to this $10,000 mark. So, it's reverse engineering this math and saying, "Okay, what do we need to bring in to get $10,000?" really another $8,000 by May.

And that's the math problem.

>> And here here's the other reality. If you went out today and b borrowed 10 grand to put this in

according to your budget that you've done on every dollar, you you wouldn't be able to make that minimum payment.

>> Oh, yeah. You'd be now $500 more in the

red. >> Yeah. >> And so I I would draw a really firm line and say, "We're not going to borrow money. What must be true?" And by the way, like your husband works like crazy.

Kudos to him.

>> It might be for three months for his family. He's got to get up on Sundays and go do go throw boxes somewhere.

>> Okay. >> Or get up in the morning after sleeping for a few hours and go

>> I don't know what else. But >> maybe it's in the cars. Tell me about your cars. >> Can you sell that car with a car pay?

>> We have Well, we have one four like

fiveseater car. that is what he takes to work. Uh, that's paid off. And then the one that fits all of us is the one we make the car payment on. That's $686

a month. >> Uh-huh. What's the total amount you owe on it?

>> $21,000. >> Okay. Do you know what it's worth?

>> I Kelly Blue Booked it this morning.

Private party. It was sitting at around 24,000. >> Okay. What about the five-seater? What's that worth?

um that I have had for a lot of years.

It's a 2011 14 probably only worth

$2,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um I think John's right. I think there's going to be some strong discomfort that's going to take place here in the next couple of months, but it's going to be for a great gain because to your point, you couldn't afford a debt payment even if you wanted to.

>> Yeah. the one AC company, the bigger company said that they had a like 18month 0% interest financing option,

but the smaller the smaller company doesn't pay anything at all.

>> Here's what I want you to do. It's still a payment. It doesn't matter if there's no nothing uh gaining on it. It's still a payment. What I want you to do, I want you to spend I want you to swap where your brain power is going. Because right now your brain power is going on uh what

types of payment plans they're offering, what types of debt there could be, what types, right? I want you to switch all that power and go to okay, what can I do? What can I offer myself? What can my husband offer our family in terms of work?

What can I do you see what I'm saying? Just shift all that over because John is right. If you don't take debt off the table, I guarantee you're going to do it.

>> Yes. >> And so, >> um, I do have I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> No, you go ahead.

>> Um, we are getting $10,000 in taxes back

this year. I did a like a mock estate

online. >> Great. >> Um, should we use that to do it?

Otherwise, my husband wanted to open a heat lot. >> What? Don't put your house on the block.

You have four kids. Please [snorts] don't put your house on the block. >> Yes, that's what I thought you What?

Girl, you should have told us that from the beginning. Now, [laughter] use that money. >> Use that money. >> All right, we'll do that. But not not a penny more. [music] >> Okay. >> Don't borrow money. >> Understood. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we're we're trying not to.

Absolutely.

If you've been paying off debt, working the plan, and have reached baby step 4 or beyond, you've done the hardest part.

Now it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027. Join all the Ramsay

personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosm, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman. Cabin sold out last time and they will again. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramiesolutions.com/events.

That's ramissolutions.com/events.

Today's scripture of the day is Hebrews 10:35-36.

So do not throw away your confidence. It will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. Um y'all don't know this, but producer James Child is Child is one

of the hugest Limp Biscuit fans of all time and um in honor of him, uh today's

quote is from one of his heroes, Fred Durst. Fred Durst says, "To walk around with an ego is a bad thing. To have confidence in yourself is a great thing." Shout out Fred and shout out

James, the biggest Limp Biscuit fan I

know. Let's go out to Detroit, Michigan and talk to Zayn. Hey Zayn, what's up man? >> Hey, how you doing? >> We're doing all right brother. What's up with you?

>> So I um just a little backstory, I was

an athlete um and then so I left school

to pursue a job that I thought was going to be my career. Uh, it turned out it wasn't for me and I got into a little accident and I'm 24 right now and I got

a 1.2 million pay settlement. Um, I'm

not I don't have much debt, not many expenses. I'm not working anymore. I'm kind of just floating around. I don't have uh a place to really stay. So, I'm

kind of just staying in my car for a while. Um, the first check is supposed to be over uh six years. The first check is coming in a couple days and I'm not

really sure uh what to do with it.

>> How how much will it be?

>> 1.2 million. >> The the first check. I thought you said the 1.2 million is over six years.

>> Yeah. 200,000 for 6 years.

>> Okay. 200,000. It just Okay. Wow. Okay.

[gasps] So, tell me more about

tell me more about what you were doing.

Tell me more about why you don't have anyone around you and why you're kind of living in your >> in your car.

>> Yeah, I was I was living with my girlfriend. Um and then I lost my job. I

mean I I was an accountant and I just didn't enjoy it. So I left that and I guess I just >> You left it with no other job.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I found out about the case and I just I kind of just walked out. a bad decision by me. I drove down to Phoenix. It just also wasn't for me. And so now I'm back in Detroit. I have uh actually a job interview coming up in a couple days, too. So, I'm going to take that more seriously. I just I just don't know where to start. Like, do I get a house?

Do I >> Okay. How are you feeling? Are you feeling great or are you feeling like a little down in the dumps?

>> Um Well, I'm scared. I mean, I have no idea what I'm doing, what my purpose is.

uh where I'm going in life and then all of a sudden I get a big sum of money. >> Yeah. >> Sometimes this sum of money is like the

legal the way they say this legally is to make you whole. Are you going to have ongoing medical procedures or issues down the road? >> No. >> Okay. So, they just wrote you a check that said basically it's like our bad here you go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> And how old are you, man?

>> 24. >> You said you're an athlete for a while. Tell me about that. Uh, I played soccer at Purdue.

>> Okay. >> Uh, and then I I left that. I went to

Detroit Mercy and then I had a pretty

good job uh at Big Boy uh the the

restaurant corporate and I was I was doing pretty well. I was doing the accounting for them, but I was just bored out of my mind. >> Okay. So I think I I think

man if I'm totally honest with you the chances of this money you look up in six years and you have you're right where you are right now statistically speaking is very high. So I want to applaud you.

I'd hug you if you're standing in front of me. I want to applaud you for reaching out to get wisdom. Like it t it takes a lot of wisdom to say hey I've screwed up. I was an athlete my whole life and I've been floundering with who I am now that I don't have that kind of structure. I thought I want to do this corporate thing that wasn't for me. I screwed that up too. Like you're wise beyond your years. So I want to applaud you. Okay.

>> Thank you. >> But I also hear

that not I'm not saying this as a diagnosis, but I hear that underlying I don't want to say depression, but dude, you're just running low right now.

And >> I'm just trying Yeah. I I I I think you're worth sitting calling somebody in the local Detroit area and don't tell any of your buddies. You don't have to run your mouth about it, >> but just go sit down with a counselor and say, "Hey, I just want to talk through some stuff." >> Yeah. >> It sounds like you're carrying a lot of weight.

>> Yeah. And I'm just not really sure what the next step is with my life, I guess.

>> Yeah. I I think this money hit at a time

uh where there's honestly more important things to deal with. Uh if I were you

just really quickly cuz I I want John to

talk more about this, but if you have a little bit of debt, go ahead and pay it off with this $200,000.

You got to get yourself an apartment.

This is not the time to think about buying a house or anything. >> Please don't buy a house. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just just get yourself an apartment near where you do life and

keep it modest and then just park the rest of it in a high yield savings for right now. The next check for 200,000.

When will you receive that?

>> Uh next year, February.

>> Okay. So, that's great. This is You're

not receiving this. Oh, boy. You're receiving a lot of money, but it could be uh it could be worse if you were getting huge chunks. It could be a lot of damage done.

But with this 200,000, treat it like for now, treat it like this is the money that you live off for the entire year, basically until you can figure out what your life is. And >> I love you going to get a job.

>> I would put a cap. This is just me. This is old me talking to 24y old me. I would

put a cap and say, "I'm going to buy a car for 20 grand or less." >> Okay? because you're going to want to go out, you're gonna have $200,000 and you're going to want to go out, you're gonna ask a couple of your buddies and you're gonna end up with a $90,000 car that will depreciate, you know, off a cliff, right?

>> Mhm. >> But if you go buy a $20,000 car, you get yourself a two-bedroom apartment that's nice, right? And then you park the rest of that money, like Jade said, and you go get a job and you go talk to a counselor >> and start squaring up who am I going to be? What kind of man do I want to become over time? And what steps do I need to take to do that? Do I need to go back to school? Do I need to go learn a trade?

Like, who do I want to become? And I think you got to dig into some of those answers. At the same time, you're living life. You're working a job. You're going out. You're meeting friends. You're dating again. Like, you're you're you're living this life. And what you'll have that most people don't is an $175,000

cushion in a high yield savings account that nobody knows about.

>> Right. And I I'll I I'll give you one better because I don't want to be a complete buzzkill on on the fact that you've got a little bit of money coming in here. Once you secure a job and it's the job that you think you're going to work for a while, you can take, let's say you secure a job, you're making, I don't know, $120,000 a year. Then you can say, "I'm going to take 60,000 and I'm going to buy myself a car in cash." >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> You know what I'm saying?

money. Like you can blow 1.2 2 million in a hot second. You can blow $200,000 a year in a hot second if you're not smart with it. So, >> and everyone around you, listen to me, everyone around you is going to tell you to buy a house, buy a car or two,

>> to always pick up the tab when y'all go out to a restaurant to buy crypto to they're going to everyone's going to have an opinion.

I if I got a job, if you get a job and you qualify for it, I'd go I'd just go ahead and fill up your Roth IRA for the I mean, you can do some really smart stuff. You can sit down with a smart investor pro too, >> but I would put that money in a high yield savings account and start to square up the question, who am I going to be? What kind of man am I going to be? >> And because you have found yourself alone right now, I want you to go sit down with a professional.

I have done it and it made tremendous difference in my life.

have gone to sit with a counselor, too.

I just think that's where you're at right now, brother, because I can hear your voice.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's a I mean it's a blessing, but it's also scary. >> Yeah, it's awesome. But you're the fact that your first thought was I'm going to reach out and talk to a coach first tells me that you're wise. You're wise beyond your years, brother. So, I applaud you. >> Thank you. And there's nobody better.

I've been listening to you guys for a while now. >> That's awesome. Will you make Will you make Jade and I a commitment?

>> Yes. >> You'll by March one, you'll be debtree.

You'll have yourself a nice but not crazy car. And you'll have yourself an apartment. >> Yeah, I promise. >> And you promise you'll have the rest of that in a high yield savings account and you won't tell any of your other friends this money's coming. >> I promise. >> Excellent. Now you're on the path, brother. >> Proud of you, dude.

>> Um Jade, I don't want to say I'm proud that he got in a wreck and got money or got in an accident, but >> he's okay, so that's good. >> Yeah, I'm glad he's okay. And I'm glad that he's wise and said, "Okay, my life just changed and I don't think I've got the mental or emotional capacity for it, and I'm reaching out [music] for help." Good. If you need to talk to somebody, go talk to somebody. Love you guys. Bye.

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## 74. Gambling with Your Future Is a Losing Game | August 14, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `u8UD_KWbDng` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8UD_KWbDng) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:12:21 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Show on YouTube, a big hit on Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

Deborah is in Sacramento. Hi, Deborah.

How are you?

>> Hi, I'm okay.

>> What's up?

>> Well, I'm 69. My husband is 79. He's still

working. He's a pharmacist. and we were

married later in life. We've been married now 11 years. Um the first few

years we were together. Uh I helped him I'm retired in real estate. I helped him sell a few properties. So we had a little over a million dollars and then I was starting over. I got caught in the mortgage mel meltdown. We were very careful with our money I thought. And um

the last few years he's been evasive about um our savings. And

anyway, I started digging around uh last this past January.

My husband has a gambling problem. Our savings is down to $15,000.

Um >> he gambled away a million dollars.

>> Yes. This was over about a 10 year a

nine and a half 10 year program.

>> How do you how do you go nine years and not find this out?

>> Not know what's going on. >> You didn't check the account one time in nine years.

>> Well, I had the statements were coming.

No, I the last time because I said the last I haven't seen anything and he had the stacked up in his office. He was

just evasive about it and he was saying, "Oh, this is how much we have." >> Which makes me gonna makes me going to look at it that much faster.

I mean like 11 years ago.

>> Well, nine years ago, we actually merged everything together. We've been we about

uh 6 months after we were married, we um

merged everything together. And a year and a half ago, something that was kind of a warning sign was that I saw a late

notice for taxes. And I said, "Why are our taxes late?" you know, and then I started digging around and I called in and found out he missed a payment on his estimated taxes. So, we took care of that. At that time, I started dividing

our finances. My credit score is almost 800 and his is hovering around 600. And

then I started opening all the mail and everything and he's moving money around.

His current salary is about 350 a year.

He's still working. So, um, what kind of gambling is he doing, hun?

>> It sports.

>> Okay. >> And this is the thing. >> So, now, now you sat down with him and you said, "You've lost a million dollars." And what did he say?

>> He said, "I can stop anytime I want to.

I'm not going to gamble anything, August, to show you we can get it under control. would you keep it down to seven or 800 a month? And I said seven or 800

a month on get I mean he does he said he

doesn't have a problem.

>> Oh, he's got a problem.

>> It's a massive >> Yeah. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

>> No, this is a massive problem. I talked

to one person. I spoke with his brother about it because I don't know who else.

I don't know. I'm not going to tell my family about this. >> Yeah. So, um I'm sorry. This is this is so devastating. This is an 80year-old man who has a gambling addiction.

>> And he's still working a thriving flaming white hot gambling

addiction and he's in complete denial about it. And so, um, you know, you need

to talk to a marriage therapist immediately and, uh, start making some demands on him because otherwise you're going to be homeless.

>> It's it's it's crazy. And there's

everywhere. >> Yes. But who do I >> You talk to You call a marriage

counselor and you start talking to them.

And you call someone that does addiction counseling and you start talking to them. Both of them can give you the framework by which you lead them into an ultimatum. And the ultimatum is you stop cold turkey. You are going to Alan.

You're going to Gamblers Anonymous and you are going to a therapist and you are not gambling another dime or you will not see me anymore.

This is your only chance.

I think you've been too soft, too kind, too trusting for a decade now.

>> And you, you know, and you your your avoidance of this for 10 whole years is absurd. You you know, which causes this.

So you knew something was wrong a long time ago. You just didn't know what or how much or how big and you just you just walked away and let him do it anyway. And I don't care what the guy makes. When you lose a million dollars gambling and you and I can cut it down to $700 a month, that's so funny. It's

so stupid. >> Let's divert that to treatment and healing, not to more gambling.

>> Yeah. So, he has a serious serious

FanDuel problem.

>> Yeah. >> I thought it was just the young guys falling for the sports betting stuff. Dave, it's wild to hear an 80-y old man.

fastest growing addiction in America today other than online porn.

>> Wow. >> Number two is gambling. And these these are the downsides of the internet.

They're both very accessible compared to when I was a kid. And so porn has just

completely gone bananas in terms of the

the uh impact and the number of people whose lives are being destroyed.

>> Uh and then secondly is g a close second is gambling. When I started doing this show 30 years ago, you know, it was cocaine or alcohol was the addiction of choice. But now it's it's sports betting, online gambling, and porn. And

they're just um it it's very cuz just

it's right there at your finger. It it's right there on the internet. >> You got a smartphone, you can get addicted. It's that easy now.

>> And so it's scary. >> And >> you don't have to go to Vegas anymore to blow money on gambling. >> And here's what's interesting. The guy's a pharmacist. He knows addiction.

He studied it and you don't get a pharmacy. You don't get a pharmacy degree without that. So because because you're in the business of medication, hello. So um yeah, he's in a very

precarious thing. He could lose his license >> because you know they start worrying about him dealing or something on the side to make his gambling guess. So he's he's really and the saddest thing 79

years old. >> And how much longer can he actually work? >> Even if he wants to, his body eventually is going to say, "I can't do it anymore." >> No. So >> and they're going to be broke.

>> Honey, you got to break this and you got to break it in half. Um or it's going to if you hang around and watch this ship go down, you're going down with it. So you don't have a choice. you have got to address this head-on, very bluntly, very with very extreme reaction from you.

Um because this is an extreme situation, but you need coaching more than a couple of guys on a podcast and you need a good therapist in your corner to help you frame this.

you know, you can't really go back and go, "Well, I thought something was wrong. It's something's wrong. We lost a million dollars. This guy's an addict." >> The red flag. >> So now what do we do? Yeah. Now what we do is we stop. We try to rebuild with his income and we try to rebuild his psyche and his psychology and his spirit

to where he's not functioning like an addict. So guys, if you've noticed, the

most expensive advertising available to man right now is all being bought up by sports betting.

>> They're sponsoring everything. MGM, BanDuel. Do you think they're paying for those ads from their savings? No. They're paying

for those ads with all you people that are losers.

You lose your money to them. That makes you a loser.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Michelle's in Wisconsin. Hey, Michelle.

How are you? >> I'm good, thanks. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I'm 45 years old. I'm single,

widowed, mom of two. My kids are 12 and 15. Um, I do well financially. I get social security. I put all my um money away that I can for HSA and retirement

and everything. So, I'm doing well. My only debt is my mortgage and I should pay that off in the next 10 months. I have 15,000 left on it. I have a 3% interest rate on it. So, um it's doing well. So my question is back at the start of co um some friends told me I

should invest money in the stock market um because it had dropped and I they kind of helped me through it. I opened an account um I had some of my husband's life insurance money I put into it. Um it was about $270,000 and over the last 5 years I've done a little investing, not a ton but um some.

And now I am at 1.1 million. So, I've

done really well. >> Yeah. Way to go.

>> Yeah. So, I don't I don't know. This year when I hit the million mark, I kind of got nervous about it and I don't know if I should just keep going, if I should

start to sell because I have over 500,000 in unrealized gains that, you know, could go. So, I just I don't know

kind of what I should do with it.

>> Okay. So um

well what we teach and what I have done personally is I invest in good growth stock mutual funds. I don't buy and sell single stocks.

>> And the reason I don't is the data tells us that over time >> what you've what you've pulled off congratulations is not sustainable. Mhm.

>> The research tells us that that's, you know, for instance, people, you're not doing this, but people who are day trading, they're buying and selling all during the day. 97%

of them lose money within a year.

>> Okay. >> So, that's an example. Okay. That's people that think they can beat the system. Now, you have not been day trading, but you have been trading,

>> correct? >> A little bit. And I So, >> so where did where did these gains come from? Explain it to me.

Um, so I have 20 stocks and probably

most of that is within like four stocks that I've done really well on like and one of them is Palanteer that I bought more recently and that's a good portion of it. >> So it's kind of in four stocks. The rest are, you know, between three and 10,000 gains, which I'm not >> too worried about. I'm sure they'll continue to go up. >> The majority of the money you made was from the four stocks, not the 20.

>> Yeah. Well, she invested in 20 and four of them hit. >> Yeah. And the other tw the other uh 16 have done okay, >> but not they're not the >> You mean they they've done good.

>> Yeah. They're not the hockey stick though up into the right. The rest of this is Yeah. >> Okay, that makes sense. Um so, um here's

the thing.

>> Um 20 stocks is not a well- diversified portfolio and four sure is the devil isn't. And diversification

equals lowered risk. Diversification

means to spread around. And your your risk is you're you're the karate kid.

You're standing on one foot hoping you can kick.

>> Mhm. >> You follow me? Instead of firmly planted on two with a solid base. And so, um,

you know, you've done well. I don't I'm not bismerching that, but I I'm not

going to recommend that you keep doing that or that anybody do that. Uh I'm glad for you. I'm happy that you've made it, but again, the data the data tells

me that that most likely you're not going to continue this trend.

Um and so, uh it would scare me if I

woke up and half of my fortune was in four stocks.

>> Mhm. because as those four companies go, so goes my fortune and I want to be spread out more than that. So a typical growth stock mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it. And if you're in four different categories of growth stock mutual funds, growth, growth in income, aggressive growth in international, that puts you in somewhere between 400 and a

thousand different companies. And so

it's all it's spread out. And so one or two companies going up or down does not change your life. It's the movement of the whole market that changes your life when you're invested with a well- diversified portfolio. Instead, you

know, you wake up every morning thinking about these companies more than they do.

>> Mhm. >> You have to. I mean, it would stress me.

And so, you know, you called to ask. So, what would I do? I would say, "Thank you, God, that this happened. I've got this money and I'm going to make it safe now so it doesn't slip away from me. And so it's akin it's akin to I hit on the uh roulette wheel and I'm up 200 bucks.

So I'm walking away from the table and I'm leaving the casino

>> while while I'm up >> and you'll likely have maybe I don't know 70 or 80 grand in taxes you'll pay which out of 1.1 big whoop.

>> Yeah. So, I I would sit down with a smart investor pro, go to remseysolutions.com, pick some good mutual funds, and move this to a well- diversified portfolio.

And if it's making uh 10% average, it'll

double every seven years. So, 7 years from now, you'll have 2 million. 14 years from now, you'll have 4 million.

21 years from now, you'll have 8 million. Just as steady as a rock, just

as so predictable, it's sickening. And what instead of um you're at the fair and you're on the roller coaster and then you got off and ran straight onto the tilt whirl and you're going to throw up.

>> I would not recommend that. >> This is I mean this I I'm again I I I'm

happy that you made some money. I'm a wee bit surprised that you made some money, but I'm happy you did. And uh just like if somebody says, "I I went to Vegas and I made a million dollars. I put $275 on the roulette wheel and I made a million dollars." I'm happy for you, but I don't recommend that as a methodology to uh to become wealthy. Uh

because you'll end up with nothing. And um yeah, I I was counseling a in the

early days I was coaching a lady that had um $900,000 in her company for in

her 401k and she was 60 or she was 69

years old and it was a big time name

brand company that anybody would know if I mentioned it. Household name, okay?

And a big big company, major stock. And

um they made some mistakes in some of their product launches and their stock went down 38% in two quarters.

>> Wa. >> So she 100% of her 401k is in company stock.

>> Oh man. >> She had one stock. So as that company goes, so goes her future. So her almost

million dollars went down by almost 400,000 in two months or in two quarters. And she came to me, "What do I it. I'm like, uh, I don't know what you do. We're not going to write it down and then write it down and then write it down hoping it comes up. I'm going to cut my losses and get out of dodge. And

so instead of a million dollars to work with, you know, we had 600,000 to work with. And because she wasn't diversified, >> but it was a name brand predictable, experienced, boring company. Shouldn't have done that. But it, you know, and it hadn't done that. It had gone up all these years. But then about the time she needs it, she hits retirement age, boom, this thing goes down the dead gum hole.

And so that's the kind of thing you're facing. And um diversification is a

basic financial principle. The first thing they teach you in financial planning. Spread, the Bible says it, spread your portions to seven, yes to eight, for disaster may come upon the land. Spread it out. Money is like manure. Spread out. It grows grows things. Left in one pile, it stinks.

>> I like that. And the slower you grow it, the more likely you are to actually keep it and replicate that. You know, the proverb says, "Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it." So unless you got a crystal ball or you're Nancy Pelosi, I would not be betting on any single stocks.

>> Whoa. >> Sorry, Nance. She's been doing very well for herself. >> Dropped it in there.

Well, you just >> I wonder if she's if Sarah's maybe for Michelle was friends with Nancy. Maybe that's who told her to get on these stocks years ago. >> Somebody Somebody helped her pick. >> Somebody knew something.

>> Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. No, I wouldn't accuse Michelle of that.

>> Just leave her alone, George. Don't Don't be abusing the customer. >> Leave Michelle alone. >> Don't be abusing the customer. >> Well, see, now everyone else goes, "Well, if I just pick the right stocks, I can be like Michelle." That's the scary. >> That's true. >> If you pick the right stocks, you be like Michelle. >> You go back in time. >> That means four times out of 20 you hit.

That's a pretty heavy failure rate.

Four times out of 20 you hit.

Think about it. The statistic I mean if you got four out of 20 answers on a test right, you would get an F.

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[Music]

Brett is in Kansas. Hi Brett, how are you?

>> How you doing Dave? Doing well. >> Good. How can I help?

>> Well, about seven years ago, you and I spoke on your show. Um, at that time I was graduating college, moving to a new city for my first job and getting engaged. And you won't remember that call, but I do. So, um, thank you back then for sharing some some hard truths with me. Um, since then paid off student

loans, uh, just, uh, in about two months

into marriage, um, my wife and I were were debtree. So, over the last six years, had two beautiful girls, saved up

20% for our house, cash flow renovations, and um today I looked up at

my retirement account and it's at $250,000 and next month I'll be 30. And

I just feel so incredibly grateful and blessed and uh essentially my question is I mean I am I at a point where I've

essentially funded retirement and um because my wife and I have hopes and goals and dreams to build our own house and when we're done having kids um start a business and um would it make more sense to uh stay save that same

money but outside of a a retirement

account where we really can't get to it until we're

What's your income? Household income.

>> Uh, it's about 140, 150.

>> Okay. You've done an amazing job.

Congratulations.

>> It's It's kind of fun to get to talk to somebody that seven years later actually did what I told them to do. >> Where are they now? And you're like, "Oh, good." >> That's pretty that's pretty impressive. And so I think it worked. And because you listened and you're wise and you're steady and you guys have built a wonderful life. I mean, what you described is a pretty incredible thing to be in your 20s and be sitting where you're sitting. Um, well, if you put

15%, which is where you are, you're in baby steps four, five, and six, 15% of your income into retirement, you still have room to uh build some other side

money. How much do you owe on the home?

>> Uh, we're probably in the 160 170 range.

Yeah. >> Okay.

And uh what were you making when you came out of college?

>> 68,500.

>> So your income has doubled in seven years.

>> Okay. >> So let's visit seven years from today

then. And let's say that your income

doubled, which really wouldn't be that unusual in your world. Okay. Um, and 7

years from today, your house would easily be paid for because it'll probably be done in about four years.

Um, and 7 years from today, you've continued to put 15% aside. At that point, your house paid for, you're going to be it's going to be very easy to do what you're talking about without abandoning the retirement saving.

So, I'm going to delay your,

if I were in your shoes, I would delay what you're requesting for four years.

And then 7 years from today, you'll have a nice side fund, a paid for house, and

a fully funded rocking retirement plan that has probably about 700,000 in it.

So, I'm going to guess and say roughly 5 years from today, you're going to have a net worth of a million dollars with what I'm describing.

And um cuz house will be paid for, you're already at 250. At seven at in

the 250 in 7 years, if it's in good mutual funds, it'll be 500. Plus, you're going to be adding to it. So, you're going to be at 500 there. The house is going to be paid for. It's going to be worth 500. You're going to be a millionaire in about 5 years, give or take. And um that's pretty cool. Uh, and

when that house gets paid for, what you can't you your mind, your intellect can grasp it right now, but you really can't, your emotions can't. About the time your house gets paid for now, you're making more money and you have zero bills. The

ability to step on the gas and build that side fund really fast. It's going to happen. And because I've watched it over the years and I've done it. And so

um because you reach what we call the pinnacle point where you reach the top of the hill and now you put your hands up on the handlebars and coast down the other side. Your money is now making more money than you make and that's where you you're you're going to be at that point. You're going to turn the corner there. So if I'm you, I'm going to say no, not today. But I think it's a great question and a great target, but

it's probably going to be about four years before you get there when the house gets paid off. And then when the house gets paid off, you're going to use that money that you've been dumping on baby step six to build your side fund with. And >> that's exactly what my wife and I did, Dave. You know, I very similar story to our friend here.

And we just knocked the mortgage out fast in a few years and then we freed up that mortgage payment to be able to invest. And once you hit that baby step seven, you can invest beyond the 15%. So still max out the retirement accounts. Go do that.

But even if you build this side pot like Dave's talking about, I crunched some numbers to give you some hope here. From 35 to 55. So that's 20 years. You're still far from retirement.

You would have 1.5 million if you took 2,000 bucks and just threw it in a non-retirement account on the side once that house is paid off. >> That's your side fund is a million and a half. >> That's not even touching your actual retirement nest egg. And so like Dave said, you can build it pretty quickly.

That's two grand a month. If you never got a raise, you just kept that two grand a month going, 24 grand a year into a side account. And that's the normal rate of return, 10%.

>> I've collapsed it into some other things, but when we first paid off our house, um it was 25, it was 15,600 bucks or whatever, long time ago. And um I just rounded it to 2500 and I opened a fresh

mutual fund with 2500. And just to see

what paying yourself a house payment turns into. >> I just wanted to emotionally experience it. How fast that account became a million dollars blew my mind.

>> Wow. >> Just paying myself a house payment >> cuz there's there's no interest and and only the one you're making from compound growth. Yeah.

Kayla is in Texas. Hi Kayla. How are

you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So I am supposed to receive inheritance from my grandparents. U my grandma unfortunately has been gone for two and a half years now. My uncle the trustee hasn't distributed anything. And

so one I have two questions. The one is what's a respectful way to approach him of when he's going to distribute the money. And my second question is once he does what is the best way to utilize that money to pay off the debt and become you financially more healthy?

>> Wow. How old are you?

>> 35. >> Okay. And your parents are gone?

>> Um, my my dad is, but it's uh it's not

my dad's parents that's gone. It's my mom. >> Okay.

So, your mom's alive.

>> Oh, no. I thought it's it's the I'm I'm sorry I misunderstood you. My My mother is is gone, but my my dad is alive.

>> Okay. But it's it's your mother's brother. That is that that's the uncle.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. Okay. And you said you're how old again?

>> 35. >> Okay. All right. Um, are you in the same town with him?

>> I am not. He's in Kansas. I'm in Texas.

>> Okay. All right. Well, um, do you have

any idea what you're supposed to be receiving in dollar amount?

>> I don't know the dollar amount. Um, so they had a trust set up. I know that the house is in the trust. Um, and they sold the house. He sold the house in April for $450,000.

Uh, my grandparents had a very, very similar mindset to you when it came to money where they only >> I mean, if you just called him up and said, "Hey, Unk. Um, I'm just checking in. Um, I know you got all this stress

and everybody bothering you about this and I don't want to be a problem to you, but I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with my bills and all. Uh, do you have any idea roughly what the timeline is and see what he says? Would

that be okay?

Uh, so the only thing that I I worry about my my grandparents and my uncle were very touchy when it came to money

and I just didn't want to be perceived as greedy. >> It's not greedy. Just it's calling up and finding out what's going on. >> They named in right in the will and the trust you're named to be the you're inheriting this money. It's not greed.

It's just what's owed. >> I'm just asking I'm just asking for an update.

>> Okay. >> Greedy. decision on greedy's already been made. I'm getting the money. All I want is an update.

>> And you know, that's not >> if that doesn't work, you can go the attorney route and formal demand letters and probate and all that, but I would >> I wouldn't go there. I wouldn't go there if you don't have to. Yeah. Just um say, "Hey, I need I need an update." And if he won't give you one, he's smart alec or something. and hire an attorney and have them contact.

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>> Sarah is in North Carolina. Hi Sarah.

How are you? >> I'm fine. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, okay. So, I am 36. I have three

children with um the man that I've been

married to for 18 years. Um, my mother

passed away back in 2013, and that was the only kind of any family whatsoever that I had. So, um um I'm not proud of

the fact, but it is a very codependent situation, if you will. Um I was a

stay-at-home mom until my son started school. He's 10 and um he started fifth

grade this year. I I spoke with my husband about two years ago. We brought it the subject of needed marriage needing marriage counseling, things like that. I I discussed with him that I was just not happy with the way that things were and that, you know, I I thought we needed to speak with a lawyer or something like that. Um

uh he's a mechanic, I will say that. And

um ever since we had that conversation about 2 years ago, um I've had three vehic vehicles that have torn up and

that has cost me work. And he's the only person that is working on these vehicles. He's the only person that's maintenanced them or that's fixed them if anything has torn up. He gets very upset. Um I guess you could say I'm kind

of confused about whether I'm in an abusive relationship or not because he's not physical with me, but he's kind of taking my resources away. um in an effort to keep me here instead of trying to work through something for our children so that we can separate and give them a more peaceful environment.

And financially um and resource-wise, I'm I'm stuck.

He's all that I have. And I just don't know where to start trying.

>> How how much do you earn?

>> I I don't earn anything right now. I don't have the vehicle that I have right now just got fixed two weeks ago and

that is not I mean that's a 2006 Nissan

Maxima. That's not anything that's dependable itself even though it's been fixed. Um when I say taking resources

away I I very much so mean like he he's

the one that works. He gets paid. He gives me money on Cash App each week that I take, you know, to the store and buy what we need for the house and for the kids and stuff. But the money that I get is what he gives me. And um if I go

anywhere, he knows where I go. Like I said, every time that I've had a job, I was making about $25 an hour. Um I do um

private care nursing. Um and I've I've been doing that off and on for about six years, but like I said, as soon as I brought up the situation of um you know,

I think we need to separate, there started becoming a lot of problems, especially with my transportation back and forth to work. Are you saying he's like messing with your car? I don't understand. >> Yes. >> Like he's actively breaking your car so you can't drive. >> How old are your children, baby?

>> Um

I'm sorry. Give me just a second.

>> Yeah. How old are your babies?

>> My um our youngest, he'll be 11 on the

29th. And then we've got one that'll be 16 on the 24th. And then our oldest, she

graduates this year. She's 17. She turns 18 in February.

>> Okay. All right.

>> And um it's very um he's a bit of a

bully sometimes about it. He makes it very clear that he doesn't

know the deal. >> Stop. I I'll help you. >> Stop. This is an abusive relationship.

Okay. Anytime someone calls up and says,

"My spouse is tampering with my car

and he's bully and he's controlling and he's only giving me a few dollars." This is an abusive relationship. You are in an abusive relationship. Do you hear me?

>> Okay. So, you need to um get on the phone and contact a local pastor there in your town and tell them you need some help and you need to get some help and you need to do some help to get new housing and get a new life set up.

>> This is not this is not negotiable.

>> You know that I'm not trying that I'm not trying to make a I mean the financial financially irresponsible.

>> This is sick.

Don't make excuses. This is a mess. It's

sick and you know it. He's tampering

with your car. You just said

hello.

Somebody's going to die. This is sick.

This is wrong. Okay, you need to get some help and you need to get some distance. Only chance this marriage heals is for him to get some help. And the only chance that happens is if he thinks you're gone because you're gone.

Yeah, there's no there's no healing that. It's just the the resources are >> No, that's what I'm telling you. I want you to get on the phone. I want you to go see a pick out a church that's a good large church in that area. Go sit down with their team with their team of counselors, their team of pastors, and tell them you don't have any resources and you're in this situation that's dangerous and they will help you.

You've not been hit, so I don't know if a domestic violence shelter will take you or not, but you could contact one of those as well.

Okay, >> but this is toxic. It's wrong and it's

evil. If you were my little sister, I

would be over there packing your stuff right now and loading your car up while

I argued with you cuz you kept crawfishing on me.

>> And I mean like he knows that. >> I'm not going to argue with you. >> He verbalizes that. He verbalizes like that they're not going to do anything because he doesn't put his hands on me. Well, they I don't know who they are, but they are a divorce attorney and he doesn't have his wife and kids anymore.

>> That's who they are. And you go get a job and support yourself and your kid.

>> Yeah. >> And you can do that. >> I mean, he knows that's the goal and that's what he's trying to keep you from. Like attorney is very the cheapest

I've heard is $4,000.

>> So, you don't have to convince me. I'm already convinced. It didn't take me but a minute and a half.

>> Now you're convincing yourself. Are you going to call a pastor today or not?

>> Yes. >> Today? >> Yes, girl. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> It's gone on long enough. As a matter of fact, it's gone on too long.

>> Thank you. >> The first time somebody screws with your car, that's ingame. We're done. We're

done. >> Okay. >> This is out of control behavior. You're done.

>> All right. So, I'm gonna put you on hold and Kelly's going to get your numbers and stuff and we're going to follow up and and if you don't call call a pastor,

I'm going to start calling people around you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. You're going to do this, >> okay? >> Cuz this is not safe for you, girl.

You're one step from getting smacked.

You're one step from getting your nose broke.

You're You're right. This fuse is really short. I've done this for a long, long time, and I know what I'm doing. So, you have got to get some help. This guy might be redeemable, but today we're not having that discussion.

He's done too many things in this one conversation to to ear to, you know, for you to stay in this house. You need to get out of there. And then from that separation point, if y'all want to work on your marriage and he wants to work on his behavior and start being a real man instead of a little twerp, then uh then we can talk about this. But right now, your husband's a twerp.

And if he doesn't like that, he can call me. I'll be happy to talk to him about it. I'm not afraid of him. I can tell you that.

So, Kelly, you pick up. I want her name and phone number and then get with the church team and line her up with a couple of pastors and let's get some help in this girl's life. Um, I think she's going to do it. I don't know.

Hope we convinced her that it's a desperate enough situation. And I would I would start recording some of these conversations. Well, he said they're never going I mean, at least have some documentation to go here's what's going on. >> Yeah.

I don't I don't even need that. I'm just gone. I'm not negotiating with this. There's not It's not We're not having a discussion about what happened.

It happened. Okay.

you know, one of the um

one of the signs that you're dealing with evil is there's confusion.

If there's confusion in the room and there's like I know I said this and this person is looking at me saying I did not say it. I know I did it. I went back and wrote it down. I know it h and then I'm looking at them later and they're act they're gaslighting acting like it didn't happen. Now you know you're dealing with evil cuz evil always confuses. Truth is always clear and and

crystal clear and knowledgeable and uh but evil's always got confusion. There's always this circular thing and you can hear it even in her conversation with herself. Yeah. How circular it is and just keeps coming back around again. I don't want to come back around through it again. I just want to leave it. >> The disclaimers, the excuses.

>> Out. Get out.

Screw my car. Unbelievable.

You little twerp.

Heat. Heat. N. [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love and create actual amazing

relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, a big hit on the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. Michael's in Texas. Hey, Michael. What's up?

>> Hi, Michael. Hi. Sorry. Hi, Dave. Um, so

I'm just I got a lot of uh debt left over from a

wedding I had four months ago. Um, and my wife has just recently lost her job also two months ago. And um, I've been

watching your show trying to um get the

gauge on how I can solve this. So far

uh, sold my car um, my Toyota that I got

last year. I was paying $400 a month for it. Um, instead I bought a uh 2013 Dodge

Dart outright and um

that would just be cheaper to have that with no payments and and just insurance on that instead of >> How much How much debt have you got, Michael?

Well, uh, total, um, I have $25,000 from

credit card debt, um, and 10,000 for,

um, um, student loans and 8,000 or 7,500

on my wife's car that is giving us some

issues. >> And what do you what do you make >> three months ago? >> I make uh 40 42,000 a year.

>> And what was she making before she fire got fired?

Um, she didn't she didn't make too much.

She was a server. Um, she

made maybe 1,200 a month.

>> Okay. So, what's she going to do with her life?

>> Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. Um, >> you need to do it now. >> She's been >> It's been two months.

>> I do agree. Uh, she's been looking.

She's >> Could she not pick up another serving job in the meantime? And places are desperate for help. >> That's what we're looking at. She's applied to so many jobs. She's only had three interviews uh over the past two months. She's I mean she was applying for jobs even before she got fired. Um

and so far nothing. She's applied to gas

stations. >> Did she go to school or was it just you?

>> Uh no. Sorry. So I graduated my associate. She's she's been to school.

Um she's she's not I guess you call it

not academically inclined.

>> I'm just saying did she have a degree in something? And what was that? >> No sir. >> Okay. Um, >> and your your associates is in what? Uh,

>> I have an associate of science.

>> Okay. And you guys are what? 23.

>> Uh, I'm we're both 21.

>> Oh, okay. Pretty good guess. Almost like I've done this. Okay.

>> And um All right. You're 21 years old.

You've been married 4 months.

>> Yes, sir. >> You put $25,000 on a credit card and she was a server and you're making 40 grand.

So, um, you wised up and sold your car.

That's smart. So, what you have is an

income problem, and income comes from work, >> right? >> She needs to do some. I don't want to hear any more excuses. This is bull crap. You can't get a job in this economy. It's bull crap.

Okay. >> Um, as far as I know, I mean, she she

can't even get uh unemployment right now. Um, >> honey, you don't need unemployment. You need a job.

She's going to work this week. This week there are What city are you in in Texas?

>> In Denison. It's north of Dallas.

>> Yeah. I mean, you can't find a server job in Dallas freaking Texas. Something wrong, man. I mean, seriously. So, your all's problem is income mathematically.

You don't make much. And one of you isn't doing anything. And you know, on

the heels of I just spent $25,000 on a wedding. So the answer, you know, you

the the uh the punishment for that is a lot of hard work for that dumb decision,

buying a wedding you couldn't afford.

Okay? And so you get you get your payback is hard work. And both of you need to be working 50 60 hours a week right now. Quit going out to eat. Quit partying. Turn off freaking Netflix and

work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. That's where money comes from. >> The old Dave quote has never applied more. The only time you should be seeing the inside of a restaurant is if you're working there. >> This one applies. >> That one actually works really well with this particular call. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. and and this is very very very

doable, but it all has to do with ambition, motivation. And so when you tell me I'm not academically inclined, okay, then let's get in the trades.

Let's get in something that you can do if you don't want to do academics, that's fine. But if but I'm hearing I'm

not very ambitious and don't like to work much. That's what I heard when she said that. Now, I may be being too hard on her, but I do know the facts are that

it's been two months and she ain't got a job. You know how long I would go without a job? About a minute and a half.

You know, go down to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. They will pay you to blow leaves. You know, I mean, you there is

no way that I'm going to be unemployed more than about 45 seconds. I have the ability to make money and you do, too.

So that's uh this is the equation. So my

grandmother used to say it's a great place to go when you're broke to work.

And so that's what we're doing here. And uh I know you're newly weds and I know this is fun and I know you're 21, but you're not children anymore. Now we're acting like adults and we're doing adult games and we get adult prizes and $25,000 worth of credit card debt for the wedding.

You don't have any choices. You're working. So that's, you know, I'm not trying to be mean to you, but I don't want to be unclear either. I want to love you enough to tell you the truth.

If you were my kid, this is exactly what I'd be telling you. The the it's a really simple equation. And then once you're working and making money all the time, then start thinking about how I can have a career where I make a lot of

money because I specialize in something,

I learn something, I do a craft, I do a

do take a class, a certification or whatever, and go go be whatever that is.

But the first step is survival. Then we

self-actualize.

>> Yeah. when I was exactly his age, making about exactly the same money, I had three extra side hustles on top of that to try to clear the debt, get myself to some good financial footing. So, both of you are going to be working a whole lot for a short season. We're not talking 5 years. You can clean this up in not the rest of your life, but you do have to get this in a zone and and this focused

intensity is needed right here. And um

you know it's real easy to get caught up in what your friends are doing or the family's doing or everybody's got an opin go to work.

Just get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. That it's it is that simple. And and that's exactly what both of you need. And you need an extra job, Michael. >> And if you want some ideas, you can jump on ramseyolutions.comsidehustle.

We've got a quiz there. I would do that on top of your full-time jobs that you're going to have. >> Yeah. >> That's what'll get you there. You knock it out in two years. You make 80 grand, you can throw 25 grand a year at this debt. It's gone in two years. That's the math. But you got to get that income up.

>> Well, I mean, they're used to living on nothing. So, >> really could just probably do it in about a year if you if you made Keep your expenses real low, get the income real high. >> And rice, rice and beans. You don't really need any hobbies or anything cuz you're just going to be working.

>> Got no one to impress. >> Yeah. You don't need Netflix. You ain't got time to watch it.

You're going to be if you're not sleeping, you're going to be working. And that that is the equation. And again, this is two years. And then you get your career jive and the two of you figure out what you're going to do with your lives and we move into that.

yeah, let's go be somebody, dude.

[Music]

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Well, buying or selling a house is a big deal and there's a lot of drama out there about real estate right now. When you're in the middle of trauma or drama, let me help you with something. Dr. John Deloney says, "Facts are your friends.

You can cut through all the opinions of your broke in-laws. You can cut through all the opinions of people on Tic Tac and Instagram with actual facts. And then based on facts, you make good, wise decisions, not based on hyperbole and drama. So, we'll help you with that. We have facts, ma'am. Just the facts on the US housing market trends. And you can get them at ramseysolutions.com/market.

And you can keep up with what the median house prices are really doing, what number of listings are out there for real, and what interest rates are for real. Ramseyolutions.com/market or you can click the notes in or click in the show notes and uh drop right straight into it. Madeline is in Virginia. Hi Meline, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm I'm doing okay. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yes. Um, so about five months ago in

March, um, my husband and our six-year-old son went on a fishing at the pier near our home and just like a regular time. And unfortunately, this time they did not make it back home. Um, my baby fell off the pier while fishing, catching a fish. My husband went after him and the river conditions just took them. >> Oh my god, I'm so sorry.

Thank you. Um, so I'm I'm a widow. My

husband was only 37. I was 36. My

birthday passed in June. And we have a another son who just turned three on Friday. Um, and as you can probably

imagine, I'm just lost.

>> I can imagine. Um, I'm so sorry.

>> Thank you. Um, >> it's terrible.

>> Yeah. Um, so I'm don't want to hold you

guys up too long. I know you have other callers, but um, yeah, I just don't know

what to do financially and um, I want to

make wise decisions. I want to get myself some help because every day I just want to crawl in a hole, but >> sure, >> our youngest baby does not let me.

>> Yeah. >> He gets me out of bed. think, you know, he was our blessing from God there.

>> Um, >> that just helped me keep going even when I just don't feel up to it. So, >> you know, losing my husband, there's a lot of logistics and stuff like that that I am still working through.

>> I haven't even really been able to work on my grief like I would like to.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but yeah, so um, I was a

stay-at-home mom essentially. We have a a business and my husband also an educator. Um and the business now with

him >> our business um the main thing that we offer is education support. Um my husband is special education teacher and also basketball training. We kind of did both under the business but he was you know the primary person on it. >> So there's not really there's not really a business. It was a side hustle and because it's not something you can sell, right?

>> Um it's possible. I never sat down to go

over that, but I will say the business kind of helped me with in like bring an

income like that I was missing from being at home. So, it it brought in a pretty decent income. I'll say >> but without him but without him there to do it. It Do you have >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um I I have someone that's been helping me, but I'm just mentally in a space where I can't even like market. I can't do the things I need to do to keep the business afloat.

I sometimes I think I can and then I just can't think clearly right now.

>> How have you survived the last 5 months covering the bills?

>> Um just um you know some monies that we

have with him being an educator, they did pay out a prrated amount of the rest of his his um salary. Um

>> you guys have any debt? >> From what I hear, >> yes, we we do have debt. Um, so the

house um was in at the mortgage is is

his name. I'm on the deed.

>> It doesn't matter. You get the house.

That doesn't matter. You the mortgage company won't do a thing. You just have to pay the mortgage is all. How much is the monthly mortgage?

>> Um, so it's 3530 roughly a month. And

then we do have a heliloc that's at 8.5%

that's roughly 550 to 650 per month.

>> So $4,000125 >> 4,000. A little over 41. Yeah. Exactly.

>> What was your household income?

>> Um before he passed, we were uh because

of the business fluctuating, we were close to 200 to a little over 200,000.

>> All right. Um so the business was making a lot of money then. Okay.

>> It was making good money. It fluctuated with me being home. We had our youngest I had him in 2022.

>> Do you have the ability to operate this business in some way long term?

That is my goal. I did have someone step in to help another friend who's an educator and I've kind of been outsourcing our clients, but you know, they were so tied to my husband. He's just an amazing man and teacher. Um and

and yeah, so um she's going to she's trying to help me, but I have to do my part too, which has been hard.

>> Yeah. >> Um and I have to bring in new business.

That's that was what I did for the business. I brought in the business and my husband uh this past year he had >> that answers my question. Um >> what uh did you have life insurance?

>> Yes, we did have life insurance.

>> How much? >> Um so between the life insurance and some gifts because some neighbors wrote did a GoFundMe for us. It's roughly 500,000. >> Good. Okay. And how much do you owe on your home?

>> 588. >> Okay. 585 about left and on the helock

about 73,000.

>> So here's um what we're going to try to do. Okay.

I always recommend if we can figure out a way for you to eat that you don't do

any big decisions for 6 months.

It takes that long to breathe again.

>> It's it's been five, but I mean and it's

still really raw. Okay.

>> And but the waves of grief catch you off balance. You don't know when they're going to hit. Um and you know there's some days you like you said you don't feel like getting out of bed but you have to. You got a three-year-old. You got a business. And so these are two things that are um dragging you out. So

um yeah I So number one goal for

long-term sustainability for you and the three-year-old is for you to work your way through this grief. And that's probably going to require you spend some time sitting with someone. And it's also going to require that you keep a really good community around you of people that you can call and just cry with.

And that can be people at your church, your pastor, it could be these neighbors that stepped up to help you. And that is not there's no shame in that. And uh Dr.

Deloney always says that some of the research they have on grieving says grief demands a witness. It is most

effectively done in community, not alone.

>> Right? >> And so I want you to plug in and work on you because you're actually the secret sauce of your future, not any of this other stuff. And then as

you're doing that, what I want you to do is um give that church and are you in a good church there?

Yeah. Actually, the Sunday before the accident, my husband completed his membership class at the church we've been attending. >> Perfect. Okay.

>> So, that church's job >> is to take care of widows and orphans.

It's in the book.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. That's their job. Let them do their job by asking for community,

asking for support.

I don't think you need any money. I think you're okay.

>> Okay. >> Well, can I can I can I speak to that just a sec? >> Sure. >> I don't want to It's obviously I mean it's a good amount. Thank God this this was b gave us this blessing. I know we

can't live off of it and this is double grief for me. This is, you know, leaving my child and my husband at the same time. I just don't know mentally where I'm going to be. I don't want to make the wrong decision. >> I don't want you to either. I want you to make no decision right now. I want you to take out just enough to barely eat and barely pay the house payment and keep this business running as best you can and go through the healing process.

Give yourself some room, girl. You deserve it. This is a tragedy. It's a trauma.

Okay? It's normal human behavior to hurt

in this. And here's what we're going to do. Okay? I'm going to line you up.

Kelly's going to pick up and we're going to line you up with a Ramsey coach and they'll coordinate with your church. And it's our gift. It's not going to cost you a thing. And they're going to walk you through the financial stuff of exactly what to do. But we've got to work through the grief process. And you got to give yourself the grace to do that. You deserve it. You've been through the most horrible thing imaginable. I'm so sorry. You hang on, kiddo. We're going to walk with you.

[Music]

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Thanks for being with us, America. We're glad you're here. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There

are new trainings every week this month, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsy personalities. George, when is your next one? >> Uh, I believe it's next week.

>> Oh, there we go. >> There's always another one around the corner, and they've been so fun. The attendance has been awesome and the live Q&A is my favorite part, of course, getting to interact with the people. >> Yep.

Live Q&A. It's free. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and you're going to find on average $9,560 worth of margin. That's the average person putting this together.

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And if you do it quickly, you might even be in George's group next week.

>> All right. Cassidy is in Canada. Hi,

Cassidy. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I have a question about work uh

and my finances. So, I have an undergraduate degree in nursing that took four years, a medical degree that took four years, and now I'm in residency. I'm two years through my residency. I have three years to go.

When I finished medical school, I had a total including my mortgage of $484,000

of debt. >> How much of that is mortgage and how much of that's med school?

>> Uh 160,000 was mortgage and 300,000 was

student loans and then I had 20,000 in car loan. >> Mhm. >> So that was two years ago. I when I

started residency, I wanted to start paying down my debt uh quickly. So, I

renewed a nursing license. Um, so now I

work about my maximum number of hours I

can legally work a week as a resident is 90 and then I pick up hours as a nurse besides that. >> Um, and I've been doing well with the debt, I think. Um, I've saved up my $1,000 for baby step one and now I'm down from a total of $484,000 of debt to

430,000 of debt in >> way to go. Wow. It's impressive. So, what are you making in the residency? What are you getting paid? 50.

>> I bring home 48.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> A year. >> And good. And and the side gig on nursing, what's it producing?

>> Um I work, you know, it depends on how busy I am as a resident, but somewhere between um $700 to $1,500 every two

weeks, >> depending on how many shifts I can get. >> Okay. So 1,500 3,000 a month.

>> So um you know, 30 grand on top of your 50 grand. So you're probably averaging about 80. Okay. And you paid down. Wow, you are really killing it. You are working like a maniac, girl. I'm proud of you. >> Well, thank you. Um, that's where my question comes in. So, that might be a little bit of the issue or maybe not.

So, I was a previously very healthy person in the first two years of residency. I've I've actually been off with pneumonia a couple times in the last 6 months. And, you know, I don't think doctors are great with money. Um, so I don't necessarily heed their advice, but a number of them have been saying, you know, you should slow down.

you shouldn't work so much. We think it's kind of dragging you out a little bit and you're going to pay it all off when you finish residency in three years anyways, but I don't really know if that's true. Um, >> it it is true. And so, here's the thing.

>> If you kill the goose that's laying the

golden eggs, you then it's kind of u, you know, you're not what you're what you're entering into is not sustainable. In other words, if you are truly uh burning yourself up

to the point that it's affecting your health, then you do need to dial it back.

>> And you're the best person to decide if that's really the cause of all that.

>> It sounds like it could be cuz you're run your number of hours is enormous.

>> And I believe in hard work. I'm the guy yelling at everybody to go hard work, right? But I mean, you you're you're a you're a beast, girl. I mean, it's amazing. >> You're like sprinting and it's a marathon. And so, you've got a ways to go. If you if you you do really believe that it is affecting your health, don't you?

>> Um, I don't know. I try not to like think about it too much. >> I'm not talking about emotionally. I'm talking about intellectually. You're a freaking doctor. Tell me, doc. Is this

girl burning herself up? And is it causing her to get pneumonia because of her fatigue level?

>> Perhaps. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I think I think perhaps is a fair answer. I'm not a doc, but that would be my answer. So yeah, I think I'm going to

dial it back far enough that I quit having fatigue based health problems.

>> Mhm. >> So would you cutting back? >> I don't know that that's all the way back to residency, >> but um >> right, >> you know, you just get, you know, you need to shave 10, 15, 20% off of this thing on the nursing side. And if that slows down your get out of debt plan and you're you're not going to make it out of debt before you finish residency anyway.

No, I'm ask >> no matter what. No whether you stay what you're doing or whether you dial it back. So it's just a matter of how much is going to be there when you finish.

That's the only question.

>> So in that sense, the docs are correct.

I agree. Don't take it financial advice from doctors. They're the only thing worse is football players.

>> Uh god on managing money, right? So it's like but the uh uh >> they're great at spending it. >> Yeah. So yeah, I I yeah, but I but I do think you know your body and you know

>> the medical charts and some of the stuff you're getting is fatigue based. You're just you're you're just burning up every piece of protein in your body and there's nothing left to fight anything.

Does that sound right?

>> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm I want you to dial back.

I'm with you. and uh you know, so in other words, you got if you end up with $50,000 more to deal with after residency, but you retain your health, we're going to call that a win.

>> Okay. All right. >> And you're not going further into debt, right? You're able to cover all of your bills and make minimum payments on the debts with your residency take-home pay.

>> Yes. Uh the interest on the debt is quite high, but I am able to pay the interest and then like I've, you know, I've knocked it back. >> Yeah. But in terms of you're not He's saying you're not borrowing money for student loans at any >> No, I am not. >> That game's over. >> You're not borrowing money to live either. >> We're off the other side of this. Yeah.

>> No, I when I finished medical school, I stopped. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 27. >> Wow. Okay. Well, when you're 37, you're

going to look back and say this was worth it because you paid a price to win

and you're winning. Okay. But let's let's do it in a way that you survive it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. All the signs indicate that you're going to pay off this debt very aggressively once you're out of residency. And so to Dave's point, delaying it by a tiny bit so that you survive it, I would be doing that.

That's a good trade-off. >> Yeah, I think it is. And I think the docs were giving you good advice in in that method. But not kick the whole can down the road, but kick a smaller can down the road um than than you were going to.

And so that yeah that there's nothing wrong with that at all because you are going to get there and when you come out of this your income's going to be substantial and you will immediately probably get a good signing bonus now too which knock off a bunch of this as well. So >> I'd hire her.

>> Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, not only she's sharp, she's not afraid of work.

Hello. And that seems to be a thing. All right. Frank is with us. Frank's in Florida. How are you, Frank?

>> I'm doing great. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey Dave. So I I got a question. I've been considering calling you for about six months on. I'm sure you're very familiar with the industry that we do.

My question to you is how do you decide if you should switch out of a highpaying job that your heart isn't really fully in or don't morally agree with all the way. So specifically the company I'm with now, we do hard money loans for real estate investors and we also do rental loans and things like that. Um, I've been in it now for about going on two years now and um, I just don't know how to fully feel about it and if I should possibly switch out, but I also don't want to give up the money that's in it because there there is really good money in it.

Well, I mean it there's good money in in a lot of things with your skill set and your skill set is project management, uh, processing and sales.

>> Correct. >> And you can you can make a lot of money with those with that skill set and other things. And so, um, rather than hypothetically discussing this or philosophically discussing it, why don't you look for something,

>> okay? >> And go find something. And when you find something, then the decision starts to be easy. I mean, let's say you had a job, another job lined up that you did not have any moral conflicts with and um

made the same money, you you'd be gone and you wouldn't even have called me.

>> Yeah, that would uh that would be true as well. >> What are you making?

So, I'm on track this year to do about 80 to 100,000. Um, being my second year in it, I mean, last year was only about 40. >> Okay. So, there's the fallacy. The fallacy is I can't make 80 to 100,000 doing a different type of work. And we know that's not the case. So, to Dave's point, let's go start searching.

>> The skill set is what's going to carry you there. It's not the actual industry itself. >> What you have learned to do is transferable into other things. If you can sell, honey, you can do almost anything. Sales people are the highest paid profession in America today. Higher than programmers, higher than CEOs.

Salespeople are the highest paid

[Music]

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in Alaska. Showing dogs

is my passion and expensive hobby. I have been leaning toward getting a new show dog, but I'm not sure if I should because of my financial goals. I'm debtree except for my house. I have a generous emergency fund and I'm investing 15% of my income.

I want to pay my house off in 5 years and believe I can do it if I'm very aggressive. I'm afraid getting a new show dog will derail my financial goals, but at the same time, I want to enjoy my life. I know at this point I'm supposed to be intentional instead of intense, but having a paidoff house when I turn 50 sounds pretty amazing.

Wow. Not that not on my bingo card.

>> Yeah. I The problem is I don't know u from this what the show dog cost. I mean

is the show dog 20 grand?

Uh if so, yeah, you got a problem. If the show dog goes two grand, then you shouldn't even have written this email. You should have just bought the dog. So, um >> the ratios help. >> Yeah. I mean, it's like what is ridiculous? Because if it's so big that it's, you know, it's going to take you 10 years to pay off your house instead of 5 years, that's an expensive freaking dog. >> But if it's 5 1/2 years versus five.

Okay. >> Yeah. Or whatever. I don't know. I'm sure it's not 20,000. And I hope it's not 20. Should be somewhere in between.

But I, you know, it depends on what kind of show dog we have in Alaska. Sled dog.

Show dog. >> I'm very curious. But I will say this, there will be another showd dog available 5 years from now when you're debtree completely with a paid for house. >> Yeah. So our instruction once you're out

of debt except the home and you have your emergency fund which is where she is and she's working baby steps what we call four, five, and six. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement. She's doing that. Five is kids college doesn't come up here. Six is pay off the house early. So, and when you're in the first three baby steps, getting out of debt, you're supposed to be very intense. Work like a crazy person, no vacation, no eating out, complete scorched earth lifestyle, get your butt out of debt.

When you get the emergency fund, you get to her stage, you move from intense to intentional.

And intentional just says the facts

should inform what you want to do. So, what I would do is say it because we don't have the number here. You and I don't, George. But the if I were in her shoes, I would say being intentional looks like this. 15%'s going into my into my retirement. She didn't didn't she didn't discuss losing that, which is perfect. The only thing is how much

delay is there going to be in paying off my house because of the cost of the dog.

And that's a math thing. You can look at it. It's not emotional at all. The show dog purchase is emotional because you're into it obviously, but the actual math

you go, okay, the cost of the dog is this and that's going to delay the say by paying off the house by one month, two months, 3 months, 8 months, a year.

At what point does the dog inflict too much pain on the paying off the house?

Because right now, I think she's just got this jumbled up in her head that anything she does >> that's not paying off the mortgage is excessive and crazy. >> And that's not true. >> Exactly. >> At this stage, you're intentional. You buy a couch, you go on a trip, you upgrade your car, you buy the show dog.

But again, if the show dog's 50 grand or something, I no, you're not in a position to do that. Um, >> what I would do is just create a scing fund and as I have extra above and beyond my mortgage payoff goal, I'll throw the money in there and that becomes my show dog fund. And once I have enough. >> Yeah. Or again, if it's a small amount,

quit making it emotional. Look at the math. >> Go, I the math will tell you to do it right now and just go, it's it's not going to it's going to cost me a half a month. Well, so what? I mean, you get the dog, right? That's what you do here.

So, that's fun.

It's very interesting. I can't think I can't I cannot hear read this email without thinking about best in show.

>> Oh my goodness. Yes. which I think a French bulldog won last year.

>> No way. >> I I don't know. I think I remember seeing it. I did own a retired show dog, though. My first pug that I had was a retired Guess how old this pug was? Two.

Out of the game. He's like a pro alete.

It's like NFL for this pug.

>> He got He got his blue ribbon and he's done. >> Exactly. So, I had a retired show dog.

His name was Elvis >> with a snoring problem.

>> Yeah. 100%. Those flat faces.

>> 100% of pugs. What about this dog is like a championship winning dog?

>> But it gave me hope that I could also be a winner one day.

>> If that little schnitle floof can get a

ribbon, I was like, I should be able to >> get a ribbon. If if that guy can do it, I can do it. Trace is in Columbus, Ohio.

Hey, Trace. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I've got a question. I have a 2018 Kia that has 104,000 miles and I owe

eight and a half thousand.

>> Yeah, I owe $85,000 on it, but I have it

in the shop by monthly uh for hundreds of dollars to get stuff fixed. So, my question is, do I stick with the loan, pay it off, and just deal with all the um maintenance, or do I go get a loan

for $20,000 for a Toyota 4Erunner?

Wow, that escalated quickly.

>> We went from hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars >> to going deeper into debt.

>> So, okay, let let's pretend that your Kia is a piece of crap. It wouldn't be hard to pretend. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No. >> And it's worth what? What's it worth today?

>> Uh, it's about 75 on Kelly Blue Book.

>> Okay. So maybe you can get out of this thing close to hole even, right?

>> Sure. Yes, sir. >> What about doing that? Says $20,000 Toyota. Nothing in this sentence makes sense. Why not get a reliable $10,000

car and stay about even and then get that car paid off?

>> Yeah, I mean that's that's a good point.

My my whole reasoning was if I could get something >> $10,000, you know, more than what I have right now on already owing it.

>> You think that's the only way you get a reliable car? No, it's not. The way you get a reliable car is you buy a reliable car.

>> Yes, sir. >> You buy a $10,000 Camry, a $10,000 Acura, and you'll be just Honda Accord, you'll be just fine.

old 10 old $10,000 Lexus for that matter. You'll be just fine until you get it paid off. We're not going to drive this thing for five years. We're going to drive it for five or 10 months while you get paid off. What are you making?

>> I make $30,000 a year.

>> Yeah. You don't need a $20,000 car anyway.

Too much money tied up in things going down in value. >> You have other debt. >> You don't make enough money to drive a $20,000 car.

>> So, >> I do not have any other debt.

>> I don't care. You don't You make 30,000.

You don't need 20,000 going the wrong way.

>> Sure. >> As it goes down in value like a rock.

That's where Chevy gets that like a rock. >> I don't even know Kia's tagline.

>> Oh, it's like I'm sure it's in a foreign language, but yeah. And it says it says crappy car, but yeah. Um, yeah, I'm with

you. I'm getting rid of the car, but I'm going to break even. I'm not going to use this as an excuse to get into a mess.

That's the bottom line. and you're you're you're saying, "Oh, I'm spending $200. I need to go spend 20,000." No,

you just keep spending the $200. You'll still come out way ahead mathematically.

It's a pain in the butt. But if the car really is doing this, at some point it just gets to be so frustrating that you need to do something. I'm okay with that. But find a reliable, and I just named some that you can drive for two 300,000 miles.

And we're not buying anything with sex appeal here. This is reliable. We were just trying to get to work >> A to B >> without spending 200 bucks every other month. And so, >> and you can do a pre-purchase inspection.

It's going to cost you 100 150 bucks with a respected mechanic in your area. And that'll let you know you're not buying a lemon. So, don't just go buy any car and then hope.

That way you know what you're getting into next time. >> A real mechanic, not AI.

Just Just as a side note. Yeah. A real one. Were there fake ones out there?

>> Well, there's artificial intelligence analysis. >> Oh gosh. >> And we don't need any analysis of a used car by something that's artificial.

>> I need like a real person. >> Artificial means not real, by the way.

That's like not real. Sugar sucks. Yeah.

Let me help you with that. So artificial sweetener.

>> No thanks. >> Yeah. >> Dave needs the real stuff. >> Yeah. I need real intelligence, not artificial intelligence.

>> There you go.

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[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquart. Headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do

work that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the George Camel Show, is my co-host today.

Amy's in Denver. Hi, Amy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Good. And hi, George. And thank you both for the program and the show. I I really really enjoy it and you're doing great things. So, thank you. Um, so I'm relatively new to following your program and I've really only been listening. I haven't read any of the books or anything admittedly. So, sorry, plan two. But, um, I'm just about

working on completing baby step number three. Uh, but my question is the the

should the six-month emergency fund include retirement and investing and giving or should it just be for survival

expenses? Oh, what what number? Times six or times three. Yeah, just survival expenses.

>> Just survival.

>> Let's pretend let's pretend the emergency was you lost your job and you didn't have an income. >> Well, you would stop retirement and you would stop generosity in the middle of that or or largely stop it. And so, um,

you know, you're not going to use savings to fund those things. You're going to use savings to pay the house payment, eat, keep the lights on, that kind of stuff, >> right? Okay. Awesome. Then, hey, I just finished baby step number three on this call.

>> That was easy. >> Awesome. >> I like a redefinition. That's good.

Yeah. >> Did you go with three or six months or somewhere in between?

>> Six. I did six. >> Good. >> Love it. You can't go wrong with that.

No one's ever complained. They went, "Man, I just have so much savings to help." >> So, how much uh how much is in that account now?

>> Uh, so I right now I have 18,000. Um,

let's see. 18,828.

pretty precise. Okay. Yeah. Let's finish

it to finish it. I'd take it up to 20 and then I'd quit. Yeah.

>> Dave likes round even numbers.

>> Yeah. That way I can remember what it is. Yeah.

>> Because I've already forgotten the $18,000 number. So yeah, I I would >> Yeah. You'll knock that out within the next month. >> Yeah. Just finish that up and then you know I got 20 grand for things go back sideways. I got 20 grand. And that gives you a level of peace. Just like when you got all your debts paid off, you had a level of peace. Now you're starting to get financial peace. two words that don't go together like airline service.

So there you go. Open phones here at8255225.

Dakota is in Nashville. Hey Dakota, what's up? >> Hey, how are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh so I just had a question. Um, I bought I bought 50 acres in Shelbyville uh towards the end of 2023, which I know probably was not a good time to buy anything, but um it from my perspective,

I thought it was a reasonable price for the amount of land. I got it for 320.

Um, and I've got that down to 228. Um,

and I've done uh water out there and electric. Um, and I just my interest rate is like 8.5. So, my monthly payments just like break my heart to see the small amount that's actually going to my loan. And I didn't know if maybe would building something out there and doing a mortgage loan.

Do you think I could get a better rate? Um I mean, I'm still working on baby step number two, getting three months uh or more worth of, you know, bills in my savings, but I just I don't know.

>> Okay. Um, so you went $300,000 in debt

to buy land as an investment while you still have other debt.

>> I do not have any other debt. Mr. Car, >> I thought you said you're in baby step two.

>> Well, so no, no, sorry. Debt is paid off. I've got a $1,000 as emergency savings and then I'm working on I thought I'm sorry. I'm baby steps amazingly. I thought number two was um getting months worth of, you know, three months worth of bills. No. Okay. Number.

Are you debtree other than this land or do you have a house? >> Yes, sir. >> Nope. No home. I live with my parents still.

>> What was the goal of getting this land?

>> What was the vision? >> I have I have cows um and horses and I

would like to live out there eventually, but there's no rush. My mother's health is not great. So, it benefits everyone me being home right now, I think. Um but it's just me being >> I'm 28. I'll be 29 next month.

Okay. All right. Um,

well, I'm trying to think how to how to

how how to position this within a framework that it makes sense. Um, no, I

would not tell a 28-year-old to go buy a $300,000 piece of raw ground and put water and electric on it as an investment and go $300,000 in debt to do it. No, I would never tell you to do that ever. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um

but uh not not to get a cow. It's an expensive cow. Okay.

>> No, you're you're exactly right. You're exactly right. Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, um the um

but uh what do you make a year?

>> Um last year I made about 98 and I think the year before that was like 104.

>> What do you do?

>> I'm self-employed. I'm a mobile dog groomer.

>> Wow. Okay. You are an animal girl. Um

>> I think >> Yeah, I think yeah. Um

the only way this makes sense is for you to put a house in it and move on it and get your get your rate down. What you ask is correct. I your your question is proper. >> Um it's a good it's a really good question you're asking. So you get out of the 8% world and you get into the five and a half five and 3/4% world on a

15-year fixed rate and you put your little house on there of some kind.

doesn't have to be fancy, but let's get something on there >> and get started. And and you know, and here's the thing, it's your personal residence from a standpoint of getting the mortgage, but if you only sleep there three nights a week, that's not a big deal, >> okay? >> Because you're four nights a week with mom, >> right? >> At least then we can put this in the bucket of baby step six and it becomes your home. You owe 300 grand on it.

That's acceptable in your situation.

Okay? If we leave it in the bucket of I

have this investment real estate I'm developing in Shelbyville, Tennessee.

Uh, no, you got to sell that. That don't make any sense at all.

>> Right. No, you're right. I get it. It was totally a personal thing and it may not have been a smart move. Um, >> no, it wasn't. It was It was way out of control. It was somewhat panic driven.

>> Um, I'm not even sure you got that great a deal, but um, >> probably not. >> Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. It's beautiful down through there. I drive down through there all the time. I love shuffle. >> It is beautiful. But um and that's how you say it. It's not Shelbyville unless you're unless you're a Yankee. It's Shville. >> But yeah, so one that Yes, sir.

>> But that Yeah, that that I I >> Yeah, I think that's the only way this makes sense is we're going to convert it to what you had kind of in the back of your mind as a plan. That's the question you asked. So I'm I'm going with your question. I think that's the way to do it.

>> Um >> nothing's on fire. Like I know it's a high interest rate, but you still have the emergency fund to work through. You need to have some money for this house to happen. And so I wouldn't rush any of this.

>> I think you can afford it. I'm not positive. >> I'd crunch the numbers on that. You're going to add a house to the loan on top of the land loan. >> Depends on what we're going to spend. >> So, I wouldn't go crazy. Like Dave said, just do something as simple as possible right now. You can always upgrade and add add to it later. >> Yeah. uh maybe do a uh an architectural

plan that allows for additions the way it's designed and you just build the first section to live in and you you turn it I'm trying to turn it into a personal residence that way you get to keep it otherwise I think you need to sell it. >> That's what it comes down to. So yeah, your question's accurate. Interesting.

>> And Dave loves land more than anyone I know. >> I like dirt. I'm a dirt boy for sure.

>> Sometimes you just push it around. Get your little truck out there and I've seen you out there. I'm like what does Dave do? No, he's just pushing dirt around. >> Yeah, like a seven-year-old grew up. No, I actually had a little project I was working on. George, come on. Give me a break. >> If you're 65 and you got a little bulldozer, you got to drive it. >> There's worse hobbies to have.

[Music]

[Music]

Man, my day just got considerably

better. George. George, I like you, but I I I don't like you nearly like I like this guy. This guy is one of my favorite people on the entire planet, and a whole bunch of other people are as well. Uh

the one and only Pastor Max Leo has

stopped in again to hang out with us.

We've done this a couple of times because you write a book every year.

>> We go way back. >> And every year I get the pleasure of helping you do that. And that's an excuse for you and me to hang out a little bit. >> We we go several offices back, it seems.

Yeah, several studios. >> This is the seventh studio we promoted Max Leo's books in. Yeah, that's >> it's a it's a real privilege.

>> And my hours, too. >> Uh if you don't know who Pastor Max Lo is, he's one of the bestselling authors in the world. Um hundred over 100

million products in print. Uh

unbelievable numbers. And uh and an incredible writer. Uh he's dubbed America's pastor by Christianity Today and the best preacher in America by Readers Digest. and he is definitely all of that. Oakill's church down in San Antonio. I've had the honor of speaking there several times with him or he's allowed me to be there. And uh so Max

Leo uh this newest book is Tame Your

Thoughts: Three Tools to Renew Your Mind

and Transform Your Life. When I was

reading over this, I was blown away when you had done the numbers on the the

amount of thoughts that we have.

>> Mhm. Stunning. 70,000 thoughts a day.

70,000 thoughts. And according to the Cleveland Clinic, four out of five of those are either negative or self-critical. That's stunning.

>> Yeah. We talk nasty to ourselves.

>> We do. We We're our own worst enemy. And learning to liberate ourselves from that is absolutely essential.

>> So, what what got you going on this subject? some of these same statistics, Dave. Uh when I read especially about

our our adolescents in this day and age, 42% say they live under a cloud of anxiety or depression. Uh 22% of

adolescents have contemplated suicide in the six months prior to the survey. Uh

we grown-ups don't fare much better.

About two out of five of us live with a constant state of anxiety that needs some type of help or assistance. and and so it this discussion about a mental health crisis is is real and uh I wanted

to try to tackle it from a from a spiritual and scriptural standpoint.

>> Yeah, it's a complicated subject. U but

as scripture often does, it guides us into a um a very it puts the cookies on

a shelf where we can reach it to to a complicated subject, a fairly clean answer that's easy to understand but hard to do. >> Mhm. Yeah. Because like a lot of scripture, you love your neighbor. Oh, yeah. That's that I got it, but yeah, I got to do that now. Yeah, that's hard.

Yeah. So, uh, with all all the advice

that's out there and how this being complicated, how'd you land on these three tools? You said the three tools to renew your mind and transform your life.

>> Yeah. This is just out of pastoral work.

You know, I've been ordained since 79 and uh over the years I've tried to hone because I see this so often as you do, both of you do. You see that our behavior is is a result of belief. You know, if you want to change your behavior, you change your belief. You don't deal first with the behavior.

You got to what's the frame of reference or the worldview that you're coming at. And I've realized that if we can encourage people to number one, practice picky thinking. You know, you just because you have a thought, you don't have to think it. Take that thought captive is the way the scripture says.

leads to a false narrative that leads to an overreaction. That's the world.

>> Oh, the drama queen. >> Yeah.

>> When when there's an overreaction, it's because somewhere back upstream there's an untruth that's taken root. And then tool number three is uproot and replant.

When you discover those untruths, you got to get they're weeds in the garden and you got to take them seriously. You got to uproot. It's not enough to pull them out. You got to replant. And you replant with truth out of scripture.

>> Wow. You know, I've uh observed this

over these decades and you have too, that when someone's life is intersected by the gospel >> and they start to understand truth and then they compare that to >> the dysfunction that they maybe came out of. >> Absolutely. and they go, "Okay, I've got to uproot >> and I have to have a new set of >> and and it literally you get to watch

someone's life be transformed, but also their entire legacy, their entire family tree shifted because of their intersection with truth." >> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> It's so powerful. >> It's powerful. >> As you were sharing those, I kept thinking, "Oh, that's like what Dave has done for 30 years on the radio cuz we sell hope here." So how would if you were on a call with us and someone called in and they were over overwhelmed with their finances, how do these tools apply? >> Let's take UFO into the world of finances. Okay, UFO. Unt leads to a

false narrative that leads to an overreaction. The untruth is I'm only as

valuable as I appear. Okay? So I'm going

to dress to the nuns. I'm going to do everything to my body I can so I can be valuable. Well, that's a lie. That's the untruth. That would lead then to a false narrative. The reason that I need a job, the reason that I need a credit card, the reason that I need money is so I can accumulate, so I can have more stuff because my stuff create translates in into value. Well, then that leads into overreaction, debt, problems, uh, comparison,

competition, insecurity.

And so 25year-old

pastor Max when I was ordained I would have I would have dealt out here with the overreaction. Well just quit spending so much or quit buying so much or you're materialistic >> or these days I would say wait there's something that they've believed back upstream. If we can figure out what that value system dysfunction is, I think we

can deal with the overt reaction. >> And that's the replacing it with the truth. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Larry Bquette used to say, "Financial problems aren't the problem. They're the symptom." >> There you have it. >> And that's true of a lot of problems.

>> A lot of problems were that we see.

They're not the marital problem isn't the problem. It's a symptom. It's you go upstream, you find selfishness. Or you go upstream, you find, >> you know, whatever. But but, you know, this actual argument is not the deal.

Absolutely. There's something up there behind it. And get get behind >> and you can flip it on its head. Okay.

Let's take the truth and that is I'm a child of God. I'm born of God. I'm destined to spend forever with God. may not be the best looking guy in the world, but who cares, man? I've got I've got more than I'm more than I deserve, right? >> And the that leads then to a healthy narrative of life. I'm put here for a purpose with a purpose to make a big deal out of God. Okay? That leads then to a right reaction. Who can I serve today? How can I be a good person today?

I'm going to honor the Lord today. So, it's a whole different mindset, but we deal with this uh problem of toxic thoughts by going back to the beginning.

You can apply those same tools to any type of thoughts, anxiety, lust, greed, bitterness, anger. But you take those three tools and put them to use. And whatever your toxic thought pattern is, I think you make progress. >> Yeah. Some of these uh people that live in your head need an eviction notice.

>> They're living there rentree. >> They're living there rentree. That's right. Yeah. >> Tame your thoughts. Three tools to renew your mind and transform your life. the one and only Max Leo, multiple New York

Times bestselling author and uh I've read almost everything he's written and it's a lot. And all the way back to uh

maybe Grip of Grace had to be before that was in the early 90s reading way back there. I remember you and I having lunch the first time in San Antonio and I was I was such a fanboy. I was just gaggot. I couldn't hardly eat my lunch.

I got to have lunch with Max Leo. What was really weird is I called him and he returned my call. That was really weird.

>> Well, you bought lunch. >> Yeah. Well, there's that. That's all it takes. There's that. >> A little generosity goes a long way.

>> So, uh, last thoughts on thoughts. What?

This is this is so such a powerful thing because it all begins there.

>> It does. It does. You want to have a better life tomorrow. Uh, take inventory of your thoughts today. We all have toxic thought patterns. We do. Uh, we all have a proclivity towards some type of quick sand of thoughts. So, identify yours. Ask the Lord to help you. Uh, don't be conformed to the world, the scripture says, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

>> Romans 12:2. >> That's one of your favorite verses. >> It is. It is. Because it's what I signed Total Money Makeover with for >> Is that right? >> Yeah. 14 million copies now. Yeah.

Beautiful. Wow. >> Yeah. It's You can do it.

How how don't don't be like everybody else. >> Yeah. Yeah. God made our brain.

He can retrain our brain, right? And that's really what thoughts are. They're habits. So creating better thought habits is really what it means to be a follower of Christ.

>> Perfect. >> Beautifully said. >> The one and only Pastor Max Leo. I love you, brother.

>> Love you too, D. >> Thanks for getting to hang out with us. I Good to see you again. Anytime I get to spend a few minutes with you, my day is better, my life is better.

I've got my own Max Lo autograph copy

that will go in my autograph copy collection of books and it's got quite a few Max LO books in it. Autographed.

I'll just tell you. This is the Ramsay Show. [Music]

This is funny.

It's National Make a Will Month.

>> How are you celebrating, Dave?

>> Sorry. Had to do it.

>> Horrible. >> It really is, though. And uh it's a real thing. So they sent me this thing. They said five reasons people don't do a will. >> Number one, procrastination. 43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

>> Just as they keel over and die. Yeah.

>> Perfect timing. >> Yeah. Perfectionism. I'm writing a will involves a few big decisions and I don't want to make them.

>> Three. This is like a comedy routine.

Thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you need a will. 40% of respondents in caring.com studies said they don't own enough to leave anybody a legacy. Well, okay, you got kids. Yeah, don't let the government decide for you.

Uh, who takes care of them? That's a dumb idea. Number four, a belief that everything automatically goes to a family. It does not.

>> Laws are different from state to state.

Number five, uncertainty about the process. Don't know where to start. If you want to take our wills quiz for a simple online quiz to learn about wills, you can do that. recommend it highly.

You really do need to get a stinking will. It's how you say I love you to the people. Listen, if you hate your family, leave everything very chaotic and make them sort through it cuz they'll all be pissed at each other and it'll take them it'll take years of their productivity away because they're going to be dealing with your crap. And the opposite is if you love your family, you leave everything very precise, very organized, and very systematized and detailed.

And that includes a will. So go to ramseyolutions.com will quiz. take the quick wheel quiz and we'll help you out. Karina is in Seattle.

>> Hello. I am well and thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Earlier this year I had picked up >> earlier this year I had picked up a second job because I realized that I would never be able to afford a home with my parents and so I've been putting away money and saving up.

>> You would never be able to afford a home with what?

>> Um just the single job that I had.

>> Oh, okay. I thought you said parents.

I'm sorry. Okay. You you you figured out you couldn't buy a home on your salary, so you picked up an extra job.

>> Correct. And I have been saving. And my

question is this. I had originally planned to do a 15-year fixed rate. Um but now after doing a little bit of math in the past 3 weeks, I've kind of been looking through all your videos and the materials you have available, and I've come to the realization that maybe buying in cash would be best. I am planning to buy a home with my parents simply because I live with my parents and the plan between my siblings and I is that I will be taking care of my parents.

So I was hoping that we would get this home go in together and they would live in this home and once I get married I would buy a house with my significant other.

They're both self-employed and they don't make a lot of money. Would it be best course of action if in I just put 7K into my Roth IRA? Would it be best if

I gift 8K to my father so that he could at least start? And my parents are 55 and 57 currently.

>> You're broke. So broke you can't buy a house. And you're asking how to take care of your parents who don't even make a good enough living to save for themselves.

>> Well, I'm not broke anymore. I do have savings now and I do have both jobs. I'm making a decent amount. >> How old are you? >> Um and I'm 30.

>> Okay. All right, I'm 65 and in this very

moment, I'm pretty aggravated with a couple of 55 year olds who have not bothered to take care of themselves so that their own kid is worried about having to take care of them.

>> They need to get off their butt

>> and go make some money and take care of themselves. >> And no, you don't need to move in with these people. They're financially irresponsible.

>> Well, they're immigrants. We're all immigrants and recently became US citizens. And so they don't really speak English very well. And so that's kind of part of the problem.

They're not very familiar with the US retirement system or anything like that. And so they've been employed their whole life. And they make about 32K together. Um, and they take care of the rent and everything.

So that's kind of why I've been able to save up during this time. >> But this feels like a recipe for disaster.

>> No. So that's kind of why I was hoping after listening um to a couple of your materials and whatnot was to pay cash that way they would only have a little bit of expenses. >> What country did you all immigrate from?

Immigrate from >> Ukraine. >> Okay. All right. And what does your mom and dad do for a living?

>> Um my mom is a housekeeper and my dad's a mechanic. >> Okay. And how long have they been here?

>> Uh a little over 25 years.

>> And they still don't speak English?

My dad can understand mostly everything.

He can do like the bare that he needs for his job and whatnot. He's pretty well verssed in his job, but in day-to-day it's a little bit more difficult or if it gets a little bit complex. My mom on the other hand, she speaks very very minimal.

>> Okay. All right. Um, if they've been here 2 months, that's an excuse. When

you've been here 25 years, it's no longer an excuse.

It's part of learning to function in the society to learn the language.

And um I mean I spend two weeks in Mexico or three weeks in Mexico and by the time I leave my Spanish has increased dramatically.

And I'm not great with Spanish, but I'm going to learn while I'm there to be able just to function. And that's in 6

weeks, not 25 years. So, I'm going to

encourage your mom and dad to work on their English skills so that they can increase their incomes so that they can

take care better care of themselves so they're not dependent upon their 30-year-old single daughter to do that.

That's the This is not a sustainable situation. You're not going to buy a house with them and then move out and buy another house with your significant other. you're going to get trapped

and have a guilt trip to take care of them because they're immigrants and they don't make enough and they can't take care of themselves is the narrative that you've painted up. And so, no, I I I want to create a sustainable thing for them where they can pro not only sustain, but then they can move into prosperity.

So, um, yeah, that that's what I'm going to do if I'm in your all shoes. Now, that may go over not at all when you start talking to them about it. I understand that. But those are choices they make then and then you've got to decide what choices you make. But I I hesitate to put you into anything that causes you to have to take care of these grown people.

It, you know, it's an honorable thing to do. I If you go make a go make $2 million or something and you want to make sure they have food, that's not what I'm talking about. But um at 55 and

56, they have plenty of time to create a sustainable life. >> Yeah. This is going to create more codependence, more enabling, more entitlement if they move in with you, which gives them no onus to really have to take care of themselves cuz daughter's got us. She's always got us.

They've got to learn how to be independent. So instead of kickstarting retirement, get them a Dolingo subscription. I don't know how. Give them away so that they can create a life for themselves instead of you constantly propping it up, which is a very noble, sweet thing to do, but it doesn't solve the problem at hand. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. I No, I would not buy a house with them. Um, but because I I

don't think it's going to lead you in 30 years where you want to be and I think it's going to cause you pain uh and handcuffs uh and all of those kinds of things.

Katie's in Kansas. Hey Katie, what's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for having me on.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I am curious if it's inappropriate of me to ask my husband to find a job that pays more to support our family.

>> What does he make?

uh 2024 he made 32,000.

>> No, it's not inappropriate at all. Why does he not want to do better?

>> Um the last time we had this conversation, he said that he thinks he makes enough and we have four kids and

it >> he makes half of the national average.

You're a lower income family with four kids approaching the poverty level. No, he does not make enough.

So then how do I go about having that conversation? >> Probably could just say that >> and numbers and facts help too to go listen here's our expenses here.

>> Pull it up. Look it up. What's the poverty level with four kids? Average household income 78,000 right now. We

make 32. We got four kids. Poverty level with four kids is probably 26 27 28. I don't know. It might be 30. And so yeah, I think I do really believe on national poverty statistics that you're there.

And I think you point that out. So, no, he doesn't make enough. And >> I'm curious, sorry. Um, he also has

bipolar disorder and PTSD. So, does that

play a factor? Should I not put more pressure on him because of his struggles? >> Uh, no. He's got to work within those guidelines. That's a context. It's not an excuse as Dr. Deloney says. So, the

context is I have to work within my bipolar, within my PTSD and earn enough to pay for four kids.

And otherwise it activates bipolar and

act the stress and act activates PTSD.

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 6:19.

We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure.

Serena Williams said, "I am lucky that whatever fear I have inside me, my desire to win is always stronger."

Lori is in Florida. Hi, Lori. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. >> What's up? >> Um, I am going through a pretty um bad

divorce. Um, I had to cash in some of my

retirement account um, back in March because my um, spouse

decided to stop u supporting our family.

Um, of that money I have about $38,000 left

from there.

We just sold a second home that we had

and I was able to get partial proceeds

from that um 70,000.

So my question is um I have credit card

debt. Um I just started working again.

I'm basically a single mom because I'm not getting any financial support from him. And um >> how many children do you have?

We have one together um >> with you. >> And yes. >> And how old?

>> 10. >> And how has your lawyer g gotten away let them get away with no financial support?

>> Um he has lost his job. He had a very

good career and he made some really bad

um decisions and to the point where he may lose a license um may not may not

have a career. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have an income. That's why you don't have child support. It's not because he's just being arbitrary. Not because the divorce is tough. He he lost his job.

>> He did. And he had also he also cashed out all of our kids kids um college

funds, retirement accounts that he had.

And he's basically being non um he's not

being forthcoming with his financials.

>> Is your is your attorney riding riding him? >> I mean, you're slapping him around, pulling him up before the judge and exposing all this, right?

>> Yes. Um, the thing is I just came into

this lump sum of money fairly recently

and I need to pay my attorney basically what I owe him. >> Yeah. What do you owe your attorney?

>> 20,000. >> Okay. Out of the 70 that leaves you 50 and then you got 36 left from the other.

>> Yes. >> And you got taxes and penalties. You got taxes and penalties on that retirement account you cashed out.

>> Yes, sir. >> Coming up next year. This was in 25 you did that or 24? I did 25.

>> All right. And you cashed out 50 grand.

>> And so you're going to have a $5,000 penalty plus your taxes on that are about another 20 grand. You're about a $25,000 tax bill.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Just just being prepared for next April. Okay. Mentally, that's what we got to do. And are you working? Obviously, you are. You said you're a single mom. What do you make?

>> Um, I have been out of the workforce.

I'm a nurse. Um, I've been out of the workforce for um, several years and I just went back to work in uh, in May.

>> Good. >> And >> what do you make?

>> Um, after taxes about 4,200 a month.

>> And you're a nurse?

>> I am. >> Okay. All right. You're not getting a lot of hours, are you?

Um it's u I've had to if I went and

worked night shift I could get differentials that then I have child care >> issues. >> Yeah I got you. >> I'm I'm relying on >> family and and friends right now for child care because he can't be >> he's not involved. >> I understand. Can't be with what's going on. He's obviously got some bad stuff going on. Yeah. Okay. >> He does. >> Um All right. And so your question was what? Let me let me get back to that.

>> What do I I owe my if I give my to speed

this divorce up, I'd pay my attorney

20,000.

>> Mhm. >> And um then I potentially will get the rest

of the proceeds that were from the

vacation home sale.

>> Yeah. >> Now our mayors offet to offset the fact that he hit all the other stuff. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The marital home um is currently

um being sold as well. So now I'm in the

process of looking for a place to to go to live with my >> with my daughter. >> Are there proceeds from that too?

>> There will be there's significant over it'll be >> you're asking are you asking whether to pay your attorney the 20k? Yes is the answer. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here's Listen. As long as this drags out, you cannot create your future

cuz you're living in your past.

>> Yes, sir. >> And it it's painful as hell. I mean, this is a hard it's hard to listen to you. It's awful. I'm so sorry for you.

>> And uh it's not only heartbreaking, it's ang it makes you angry and disgusted all at the same time. And all those emotions swirling around. It's hard to do anything. So, and and and I've just been talking to you 3 minutes and I'm already feeling all of it. So, I mean, it's like I I can't imagine being in your head.

So, bless your heart. I'm so sorry.

>> So, yeah, I I want to get this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can cuz it sounds like this guy needs to go away and I need clarity about what I've got to deal what cards I have in my hand to deal with my future.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Get the houses sold, get the money in the bank, build up the career, get an apartment, get settled, and then let's talk about rebuilding and going from here. Uh but the first thing we got to do is create a sustainable safe situation where we've got housing, where we've got a sustainable income and we have uh figured out what we have net net with a $25,000 tax bill coming up in the fall in the spring. And so, um yeah, um

I'm I'm paying him and getting all this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can.

And then I've got a friend that does divorce recovery work and uh she taught me years and years and years ago that divorce turns a business or turns a marriage into a business transaction. So this just becomes a column now of assets and liabilities of income and you just

it's just a math thing now because all all this emotion and all this um betrayal and all this misbehavior are

just the drama and the sidebar. But the the actual story is you and the 10-year-old moving forward with a pocket full of money and you're a nurse and you can go make a great living being a nurse and you're going to have a great life from here. But you just need, you know, to not have to burn all the calories dealing with this crap all the time, right?

>> Yes, sir. He's just wasted away like millions of dollars is >> I can't imagine. Can't imagine. I'm sure. >> Yeah. And hopefully you can get the proceeds from the vacation house, the family house, and everything to offset all the crap that he's, you know, that he's stolen from this discussion

>> and uh get it all set back up. And yeah, when you can get that and get this in the rearview mirror, it'll make all the difference in the world. >> Yeah. Clearing these debts at least with all these proceeds will clear you up financially and mentally.

Just there's a lot going on right now. Let's simplify as much as we can. >> Yeah. So main thing is get the attorney paid.

keep get that going. And then let's quantify. You know, I got $25,000 tax bill coming up. I need to hold that money aside.

And then I need to look at what else I need to clean up, get me an apartment, get an income that we can live on, and then from there, we'll build the career. From there, we'll build a life >> out of this. And that's where you're going from here, man. That's just painful.

It helps to just put it all down in writing. Put it on a note and just go, "Here's all the things that I have, all the debts I need to pay off. Here's all the money I have coming in." And it just helps clear it from your mind to see it on paper. And doing a budget will also help you. I'll gift you um every dollar, Lori, to help you just put all this on paper. I'm making 4,200 a month. Where should every single dollar be going?

That's one less thing you got to think about once you see it on on there right there on the app wherever you go. >> And I don't want you to rent something nice. I want you to rent something cheap cuz it's temporary. You're not going to be there long. You might be there one year maybe. So I This is not the Taj

Mahal. The 10-year-old's life is not going to be better because of the rental property you get. So just keep it cheap because you need the margin. I want you to have lots of margin where you're not touching any of this this pile of money at all for living. If you can set yourself up where you live on the 4200, that's a sustainable beginning and you go from there. So, wow. So, I'm sorry, kiddo. It's real painful. I ap I'm sorry you're going through that. It's awful.

It's not fair. And uh some people's

misbehavior. Wow. That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

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Heat.

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## 75. Get Out of Survival Mode So You Can Finally Move Forward | December 4, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLjjIiGjwxk) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:55:53 |

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start [music] budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. So you jump in, we'll help you out. It's what we're here for. Michael is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, Michael. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes, sir. So, um, I'm in a a sticky

situation in my life and I'm I'm I'm looking to at a way to to get out of it, to do better for myself and my family.

>> Okay, good. How can we help?

>> Yes, sir. So, I am 27 about to turn 28.

I have guardianship with my 17-year-old brother, have for the past four years.

I'm roughly $35,000 in debt, uh, with a lease, um,

some credit card debt, and a few other

charge offs on my credit. Um, I'm pretty

behind on most all my bills at this moment. I'm a doortodoor salesman,

and I'm uh I'm I'm trying to find a way out, man.

>> Okay.

Uh, are you married?

>> No, sir, I'm not. >> Okay. All right. And what are you making

as a door-to-d dooror salesman?

>> I've been here for about three months now. My last month, I've made $3,500.

>> Um, it's the slow season at this moment.

>> What do you sell? >> I stand I I sell roofs. I'm a door-to-d door salesman in the roofing industry.

[snorts] >> Yeah. Not exactly a Christmas present many people buy in December, huh?

>> No, sir. Not at all. [laughter] >> Yeah. If they buy a roof right now, it's cuz they really need one. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um, so you made 3500 last month. What' you make the month before?

>> Roughly $3,000. Yes, sir.

>> Good. Okay. Good. Do they have any base for you at all or is it straight?

>> It's straight commission. They do have a uh what's what's it called? A um >> draw. >> A draw. Yes, sir. They do have a draw.

Um it's based off of work orders that you get signed. For every work order, it's $500. Mhm.

>> But getting a work order signed is >> similar to getting a roof bought.

>> Yes, sir. And people look at that as a contract. It's hard to get by, but not impossible. >> What were you doing before that? What were you doing four months ago? >> Before Before that, I was a car salesman, a Toyota.

>> And you're you think you're going to make more with this than that?

Obviously, or you wouldn't have done it.

>> Yeah. Yes, sir. Absolutely.

>> All right. Okay. All right. Um, you said

you're 27.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Good. Good. All right. So, your

first rule of thumb is take care of your

household first.

Okay. And that means buy food, not

eating out. Food for the refrigerator and food for cooking. And that means take care of utilities, lights and water, heat, gasoline for your car.

Okay. Uh that means pay your rent or your mortgage. How much is your rent?

>> 850 a month. >> Okay. You pay your rent. You don't get behind on your rent and you don't get behind on your food. You start with those things. You follow me?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And um that we call that building

the four walls of your house. Once you've got survival, which is food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Once you've got survival done, then we start working on clearing out the debt.

But not until you've eaten and kept the lights on.

>> Okay. >> And when you sit down and do a written budget before the month begins, do you

know what you're going to get in December yet?

>> No, sir. I do not. Okay. All right. And

>> at minimum, I would pay $3,000.

Made that. >> All right. So, why don't why don't we sit down when you get off the phone, I'm going to hook you up with the Every Dollar app, the uh expanded version that we're going to pay for it. We're going to give it to you free, okay?

>> And get you started. I want you to sit down tonight and I want you to put $3,000 into that app. So, you got $3,000

coming in. What are you going to do with it? We're going to be very intentional.

And I just told you food, lights, and water, rent. We know we can do those.

You got enough to do all that, right? So now we don't have to worry about being homeless or hungry.

>> And that sets your brain free to start working on, okay, now the rest of it's a stinking monopoly game.

Okay. Once you know you're survived, so we get survival behind us and now we can go play the Monopoly game. And then I want you to list your debts, smallest to largest, and any extra money you pay minimum payments on all of those. And if you have money after you paid minimum payments and covered your necessities, then you attack that smallest debt and pay it off as fast as you can.

So, like, let's say February, you have a huge $5,000 month.

And we're going to walk with you and show you how to do it. Okay? I've been right where you are. I've been scared and confused. The bad news is you got some debt. The good news is you're not afraid of hard work and you know how to make money. And the good news is you're ready to learn. And the good news is your debt's not that bad. You can actually tear it apart. But I want you to get pissed off and attack it like your life depends on it.

>> Yes, sir. >> And when you do that, you get wired up and fired up, man. You stick the stinking ball into the end zone. And if somebody's in your way, you run over them. >> You understand what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. 100%. >> That's it. And so you can do all this

and we'll help you in the whole process.

>> And you're are you doing door-todoor sales, you know, 8 to 5? Like when the sun goes down, are you done?

>> Um, as of right now, yes, sir. I did just today put in an application. I'm looking to pick up a second job. Um, it's a warehouse job from 7 at night until finished, but I'm assuming about 12:00 p.m. or 1 or 12 a.m.

>> That's a you know Yeah. like a UPS or a FedEx job during Christmas here. You can make some stinking money doing that.

>> And and and if you've got a place to stack that and you know where it's going, it makes that hard work easier.

Hard work that you don't know where it's going is a pain in the butt.

>> Absolutely. >> But when you know, hey, that I work that hour, I knock that bill out. I work that hour, I knock that next bill out. I'm going to get my freaking life back, man.

I'm tired of living like this. When you get that thing going, that's when everything changes for you. >> And one year of that, man, you'll be celebrating your 29th birthday.

>> Debtree, if you do it this way, >> I think you can. Cuz I think your sales are going to go up. Cuz here's the thing. A salesperson who knows where the money's going to go from the sale is an

excited salesperson. A salesperson who's scared and desperate and is afraid they're not going to eat, they smell bad.

And a consumer can smell it a mile away.

It's hard to make a sale. But when you're on fire, they want some of what you're burning with, man. And that changes everything. So just your attitude of attack on this will affect what happens on your sales.

So I really do predict February may be the best month of your entire life. I think that's a very strong possibility if you're doing all these other things as a part of this program because now you got a reason for doing it. You pick it up and put it down. You're picking it up and putting it down, man.

>> And that personalized plan and every dollar, Michael, it's going to change everything. It's going to coach you just like we're doing right here, but 247 in your pocket.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely, dude. And you're a great guy, man. Take care of your little brother. Look at you, man. What a stud. Go get him, brother. We'll help you. If you need some more help, you call us back anytime. Hold on. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you signed up.

>> [music]

>> Finally, mortgage rates have dropped.

And you know what that means? People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So, if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsay way.

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[music]

[music] It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsey Show. And we want to hear some giving stories [music] from you about how you've given generously this season or maybe a story where you've received something. But this is a show about generosity to inspire generosity. This particular show

is one of the most popular ones we do of the year. So we need some great generosity stories. Whether you were on the receiving end or the giving end, go to ramseyolutions.com/ask.p put giving in the subject line. This

show on uh giving is a Christmas time tradition. It comes up December the 18th. So go ahead and send in your stuff now and we'll make you a part of the show. Jeff is with us in Chicago. Hi Jeff. Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, I've got a a good news, bad news scenario. I have a 21-year-old son who's a college junior and the good news is he's started to invest for the long term about 6 n months ago. Start putting a

little bit aside, has a portfolio, diversified long-term portfolio. That's the good news. The bad news is he is also actively engaged in sports gambling

like so many of his friends. Maybe all of his 21-year-old college friends have sports gambling apps and and they take that frequently, definitely every week, sometimes every day. And my point with

him is that if you're going to be involved in that kind of a risky speculative gambling uh you know app

thing every day that instead take that

energy and apply it to learn more about short-term trading like futures and options. I trade futures. I trade options. It's a it's a skill. It's an art. It's something that's always challenging. But I've learned more about finance and probabilities as a result of it. not always a winner. But my point to him is gambling on sports is gambling by

every definition. It's good that you have a long-term portfolio, but as long as you're going to be you're open to the risk of loss that you should be applying it to financial instruments and learning more about them instead of sports gambling. And [snorts] the reason I can't communicate that is that the proper the the current conventional wisdom everywhere like he's been reading Scott Galloway's book about long-term investing is that you just buy things and hold them forever and that that's the right thing to do and the only thing to do and that's the that's the point where we're in disagreement.

my question is how do I convince him that he shouldn't be gambling on sports and if he's willing to risk money in that manner? >> I follow your logic. I follow your logic, but it's like >> um we're choosing between two things he shouldn't be doing.

>> A college student shouldn't be playing short-term trading and a college student shouldn't be sports gambling, period. I

I so I don't really want to I don't want him to take that energy and do anything with it except something completely that's good for him. Neither one of those things are something I want to train him to do long term. So I I follow

your logic. I get how you got there cuz you're playing in it and that's okay. Um

uh you know if that's what you choose to do. Um, but I would any college student or any, you know, someone in their 20s that called me and said, you know, I'm I'm uh sports betting, I would never tell them instead do short-term trading.

I I would just say do neither. And so I'm going to fall more on the Galloway side of things, I guess, in your mind than uh than you are. But um uh I I

think I would just for for for a second, let's set the short-term trading decision or discussion aside and say,

"Hey, the fastest growing addiction that

is destroying young men in their 20s in

America, faster than anything I've ever seen in 30 years of doing this, is online sports gambling." >> Yes. >> FanDuel is a portal to hell.

Draft kings ain't king of nothing except their own pocketbook and they're screwing an entire generation of young men because you don't win.

That's why they can afford to buy ads on every stinking every I mean they're back

to back to back to backtoback ads every time you turn on a sporting event.

It's all I see is their crap. And no

wonder they they're spending billions of dollars. You know where they're getting that? It's out of your kids' freaking pocket cuz they're screwing an entire generation. This is evil stuff right here. And so I'd be talking to him like this is cocaine.

Not like it's an alternative high-risisk investment. No, this is cocaine. You are

screwing around with cocaine. You're screwing around with fentanyl. You're screwing around with crack. And it's going to kill your little butt. You need to get away from this stuff. And if your friends are all so stupid, they're doing it. Well, if all your friends jump off a cliff or you're going to jump off a cliff, that's the famous dadline, right?

So, I'm just going to drop that one. So, I anything I can do to get a young person or an old person to stay away from online sports gambling, it is the most addictive freaking thing I've ever seen. The number of people coming into our financial counselors around America, sitting down with Ramsey counselors, that their entire lives have been destroyed by this bull crap is unbelievable.

It's the fastest growing addiction in America. Faster than cocaine, faster than drugs of any kind, faster even than

porn. And porn is a really high huge

problem as well with this age group and with any age group, but this age group in particular. They're getting destroyed by their online access to this absolute bull crap. And George, you've got some actual numbers on this. >> Yeah.

Well, I covered it in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, cuz I saw it. It's under the investing traps chapter because I saw it as people trying to shortcut their way to make a little bit of money and enjoy the entertainment at the same time which really worried me to take the addictive nature of gambling, the ease of mobile apps, the bookies that stack the odds against you with this socially acceptable form of entertainment, quote unquote. And so this is really scary to what it's doing to young men. And I don't know that that this dad has the authority in the kid's life to tell him to delete the app.

So, what it takes is truthfully and sadly, he might need to lose a bunch of money and get burned before he actually turns a corner or he needs to find new friends. >> I'm seeing him lose marriages. I'm seeing him lose jobs. I'm seeing him bankrupted.

We're seeing just a sad sad sad stories

and nobody's talking about everybody's walking around grinning like betting on football is a wonderful thing. >> And it's a funny thing to joke about with your friends if you won money or lost money. >> Yeah. Well, and it's like a stinking golf or fishing story.

You lie. You know, you lose more than you win, but you tell only times you won. You know, I caught I caught a fish, but 17 times I didn't catch a fish. Shut up.

So, it's not cute and it's not funny and and there's no, you know, I'm Yeah. So, Jeff, I'm on your side. If I could figure out a way to get your son to quit doing it, um, I would.

you, it's he's creating

habit patterns, neuro pathways in his

brain that it may take him a decade to get out of. When your brain starts getting rewired to play this crap, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. This short-term feedback loop thing, and you get you get your brain wired to do that, it it is not conducive to building wealth. It is not conducive to building a high quality life.

>> Yeah. But what I would ask him is, hey, how much have you spent on these apps collectively? Make him add it up and then show him what it's actually costing him both in past and future tenses. That might convince him if he's into long-term investing, he might go, "You know what?

I could have turned that into 10 grand when I graduate college instead of being broke. Or I could just have some fun, quote unquote, and lose a bunch of money." Yeah, these guys have they have got the algorith you're at such a disadvantage when you open up one of those apps because they have spent a half a billion dollars building the visuals uh build building the feedback loops to where they know once you stick your toe in there >> and they lure you back in with another offer >> suck you in. >> Hey, here's a free bet on us.

Come back in.

>> So yeah, I'm I'm Can you tell I'm a little pissed off about it? Yeah, this is evil. Straight up evil. It's greed

and it's out of control. And if you work for FanDuel or you work for DraftKings and you don't like me, well, I'll get over that. >> Guessing they're not going to be knocking on your door to be a sponsor, Dave. >> Well, they have.

And we said, "You got funny." They even got >> Well, that just shows how stupid they are that they don't, you know, they don't they're just buying ads everywhere. Anybody, you know, like, "No, we're not putting that on. We're not going to have have anybody on here selling gold either." Good god, how stupid. >> If you're watching this on YouTube, it probably got interrupted with a FanDuel ad.

That's how aggressive they are.

>> It's exhausting. >> Bad news, boys and girls. Bad news.

Hope I wasn't unclear.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, you know those too good to pass up holiday promos? Well, they can be great, but with every spin of the digital wheel, the newsletter sign up, the coupon code, you're giving away your data. You think that info just stays with the store? I doubt it.

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with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's joined me.com/ramsey.

Code Ramsey.

I'm officially a boomer. I'm officially

a walking dad joke. I do not understand

the vernacular.

It's Cyber Monday week.

That just sounds oxymoronic to me.

>> It's like birthday week. It's your birthday week. >> Yeah, but it doesn't last a week. It's a day. >> Well, we like to stretch things out. I can tell. So, we have Cyber Monday week and the deals are going big. We got

hardcover books, audio books, assessments with prices as low as $6.99,

which Ken Coleman said yesterday he's a little pissed off we're selling his book that cheap cuz he doesn't make much. That's good.

>> Ken, don't wait. These deals will end

because the week will be over.

[laughter] >> Sunday the 7th of December. Go to

ramseysolutions.com/store if you're watching on YouTube or click in the show notes. >> Don't miss out. You have a whole week to get this Cyber Monday deal. So don't miss out. [laughter] >> God almighty. Elizabeth in San Francisco. Hey Elizabeth, how are you?

>> Good. Good. Appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? Um, so I'm relatively new to your program and since I've been introduced to it, uh, I I had a lot of appreciation because the burden of my loans has been heavy for a long time. So I'm excited to have a method to apply to them. Um, and what I have right now is

$300,000 in loans. There's four of them, mostly

student loan. However, the third largest

one um is a is not a student loan. It's

from a certain program that my employer has with a it's a no interest loan and

with a very specific payoff date for a down payment on a home. So my my approach up until you know being introduced to your program has been to put aside money every month for that.

And so when that date approaches which is four years from now uh I will have that money. And I was just curious >> how much So your employer loaned you money interest free with a balloon

payment for a down payment on a house.

>> Um, no balloon payment. So they hand they gave me $85,000 and they said you have to hand this back in 10 years.

>> That's a balloon payment.

>> Oh, okay. It I I misunderstood. I assumed it would have >> If it all if it all comes due at once, that's called a balloon payment. All right. So >> Oh, okay. And so you have three you have how many years left before you have to hand them $85,000?

>> Four >> four years. And how much do you have saved towards that?

>> Um my total savings account is 60,000.

Um but I I have 25,000 of that in a separate like I I just kind of put it in a bucket every you know every month I put some money in that bucket.

>> Okay. So you have 60 but 25 of it's here

marked just in the bucket. Okay.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> And and do you have any investments that are nonretirement in money?

>> No. >> Okay. >> Not non-retirement. >> So, this is all your money. And what do you make?

>> 370,000.

>> Good lord. That's excellent. Good for you. What do you do?

>> I'm a physician. >> Oh, okay. Good. All right. Okay. Um, how

long have you been making that kind of money?

>> Uh, about 10 years. And my my student

loan debt was 500,000. It's down to it's

it's it's it's ridiculous to even say it's down to, but it's down to 250,000.

>> Gotcha. Okay, cool. Okay, so 250 >> actually less now. Now, actually, sorry.

Yeah, it's about it's whatever 300US 85,000 is. >> So 215 215.

>> Yeah, 215 215.

>> Okay. All right. And so and you have 60

and 85 clears this mortgage problem.

>> Correct. Okay. Okay.

>> What's your smallest debt currently?

>> The 85. >> So, actually the 85 the um the actually I had So, the student loan is in they're in three different and actually it's broken up cuz you said it's the third largest is this. >> I actually had I Yeah, exactly. I actually had more student loan debt than I listened to a couple of your programs and moved more money from savings over and squashed the smallest ones. I'm about >> So, you're heading the right direction.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> All right. So, well, let's just pretend this. Let's pretend that making $370,000

that you are 100% debtree in 24 to 36

months.

>> Yeah, it would be amazing. >> Well, it's only I mean that I don't know what it takes you to live, kiddo, but you should be able to do that. >> I I think what I again since learning your program, I'm going to stop a I'm going to stop my pause.

say retirement and that thing and then I'll be able to squash >> um e I'll be able to squash you know a good >> but if we put 150 if we put 150 out of

your 370 on debt >> times two years that would pay off 300

right >> right correct >> which means you only have $270,000 a year to live on [laughter] >> Gosh when you put it that way it really does sound like >> [laughter] >> Well, you >> I really want you to be I really want you to be done with this in two years. And we've got some money. We've even got a little more money we can throw at the thing. >> Okay.

So, you're you're you've been walking towards what we teach very steadily. And as you've learned more, you've gotten more comfortable.

$25,000 a month going towards debt.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. No, no. I'm sorry. Let me do I'm 125. 125.

>> 125. >> Yeah. >> 125 going towards debt because that that that's two years. In two years, you'd be done.

>> Okay. >> All right. And once I lay that out, >> um what we normally tell people, and you've been listening, so you already know this, is to have $1,000 in your savings, which would put 59 towards these debts. You've already done some of that, but you didn't quite get enough belief yet to go all the way.

It might take you a couple months to get to there because this is all a little fresh for you, a little new for you, and I'm okay with that.

start to see, you know, 15 10 to $15,000

a month going off these debts, you're not going to be as scared being without a big savings account.

>> Right. Right. And let me tell you something, that 85,000 because it's attached to your employer and it's attached to your home, even though it's interest free is hovering around in the back of your head like a hatchet. It's not stress free or risk- free.

>> Yeah. This is why I appreciate you so much. I feel like there's so few people would say that and I appreciate it because I feel it. >> Oh, you do feel it.

I would feel it.

So I can I can I can see how that because there's so many different variables that touch points in your life that are very important. House, job, career, all that that are tied to this one thing and and yet you know, oh it's interest free. I'll just, you know, no, no, no, no, no. Get rid of that thing.

So list your debts smallest to largest.

Start throwing 10 to $15,000 a month at them. And as soon as you get up the courage, take a whole bunch of that 60 and throw at them.

>> Okay. Yep. Okay. I'm excited. I never thought I'd say excited and debt in the same sentence. >> I'm excited. I'm excited because the debt is leaving. That's why I would say it in the same sentence. But yeah, >> we're excited for you cuz the math is very hopeful here. Your income is incredible. So, if you can stop living like a doctor for just like a year or two, you're going to be really living after that for the rest of your life.

>> You had no payments and you make 370 and you're used to living like this. Oh my gosh, girl. You'll be able to do anything you want to do. >> So, what type of practice are you in?

>> Emergency. Wow. Good for you.

>> I works for the money. [laughter] >> You do work for the money. That's serious serious trauma, stress, and everything else. Yeah.

>> Now, it's time to treat this debt like an emergency. >> Yeah. There you go. Hey, that >> Yep.

Yep. >> Listen, you're you're you're going to get this. You're going to knock it out. I'm proud of you.

And uh I'll I'll give you one last prediction, Elizabeth, and that is is that the more you get down into this and the more you see it is working, the more you're going to turn up the intensity. And so I think you're going to be done even faster than two years. >> I think the income's going to go up and her expenses are going to go down. >> Yeah.

I think I think she's just gonna say, "I I'm getting such a high off of paying off debt that I'm going to do I'm going to just crunch it and crunch it and punch it and punch it." >> And man, when you do that, it it just But you you can't feel that today until you feel it. So once you get in there, though, and it starts moving.

Oh my goodness, you're going to >> I remember I the first time I ran a half marathon, I remember turning the corner and there was a half mile to go out of the 13.2, but you could see the tape on

the finish line and I I just run 12

miles and yet I found somewhere down inside cuz you could see the end >> and I was able to sprint. your body just your body and your brain goble I was able to go you know kick it in for a half a mile but you could see it you could see the end and and then there's more in the tank than you than you believed you had

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>> [music]

[music] >> Solomon is in Montana. Hi Solomon. How are you?

>> I'm doing good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Awesome. Uh,

currently am at a crossroads in my life

where things can go a lot of different ways and I'm just looking for guidance on

what you would do in my situation.

>> Okay.

>> Yes. >> What's your situation?

>> So, I'm currently ending my football career. I spent eight years in college on scholarship.

uh seven at USC and then one over here

at the University of Montana and along that time I got my undergraduate degree and my master's degree and I got married and had two sons but I'm stuck on

deciding whether or not to stay here in Montana where I love it and we found a good church but I have a lot less connections out here compared to Utah where a lot of my family is and where I have a lot of connections and uh close to the church out there that we

were attending to for a little bit.

>> Okay.

Um are you in a metro area in Montana?

>> Yeah. So I'm in Missoula right now.

>> Okay. >> It's about like 100,000 people.

>> So it's a big enough what what are you wanting to do? What's your what's your career goal?

So, I'd like to make use of my education

and I have my undergraduate degree in business administration and my project or master's degree is in project management >> and I'd want to do something with that in construction and uh I've been trying to look for jobs in both Utah and Montana, but man, it's

hard to get a job out here, man, especially with no experience, you know.

[snorts] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Have you talked to anyone in those fields or even in the project management field?

>> Yeah, I've been uh networking a lot and

I have a strong connection to one of the biggest construction companies in Salt Lake >> through one of my uncles who's married in. >> But uh yeah, I mean I just Salt Lake.

It's it's a hub. It's huge.

mean and out here in Montana I it's uh

harder to make connections but the connections you do make are a lot stronger. So I've been trying to network out here but it seems a lot harder being

>> how are you making a living today sir

>> I know on scholarship they usually give you a monthly stipen and

>> you're breaking up on us. Yeah. I didn't get the last part. I heard stipen and then that's all we heard. Are you still there? >> Yeah, I'm still here. >> Okay. All right. >> So, normally we get a monthly stipen and

that's all I've been living off of the past eight years. >> Is your wife working outside the home?

>> No, she stay at home full-time. We have a 22-month-old and a six-month-old.

>> Wow. What's the stipend every month? How much are you guys living on?

>> About 1,500.

>> Oo. You're living off of 1,500 a month?

Yeah. Plus some uh EBT food stamps.

>> Okay. So, here's the thing. Um

you you obviously want to stay in Montana. You're all of your verbiage and your sentence structures are saying that. >> Um but you also know that it's probably not going to happen because you're probably not going to land a good job there with the uh limited connections and the smaller area. So, it may be that to start your career out after college, your first job after college, which is what we're talking about, that you end up in a major metro area like your Salt Lake gig.

You go take that for a few years and then you make connections across the construction industry.

some experience under your belt and you may or may not move back to Montana someday. and and but for now probably to

take advantage of the education that you've got and actually make a good living for your family. Um cuz we just

don't want EBT to be in your future, man. That's just silly. >> Yeah. I wouldn't stay on the poverty line because I like my church.

>> Yeah. Or because or because I like Montana. Either one. So, no. I think you go get a job right now as soon as

possible and take that. And um there's

nothing evil about either one of these things. If you can get a good job there in Montana, take it. But if you can't, take take Salt Lake City and get your get your butt in a car and go. And uh and you can, you know, you got the rest of your life to do stuff.

There's no rule that says you have to stay just cuz you went there. You can go over there and it's an adventure. And you know, we're going to give this two or three years. You say, just put a number on the calendar.

We're going to give it three years. We're go over here and work our tail off for three years.

and then I can decide where I want to live, and I can decide how maybe you want to open up your own thing someday.

I don't know. And you then you can start doing that. But for today, it's time to

for the sake of your family and your sanity and your pocketbook, it's time to go make some money as a result of this.

And that's not greed. It's you you've poured your whole life into football and into getting this advanced education.

Now, for God's sakes, go use it, you know, go do something with it and get the most out of it. Squeeze it. Squeeze it to where every drop of juice comes out of it. And uh and that's that's a good thing for you. It's a good start to life for you. So, yeah, I'm I'm take if

you can't you know, you got you got two weeks. You don't land something in Montana, I want you to land something in Salt Lake and be gone. You got two weeks. >> That might be an entry- levelvel project management job that's not in construction right now, but you need some experience in order to make that final move.

>> Yeah. >> And uh that's going to be you might have to swallow your pride a little bit and go, I have a master's project management. I deserve this. >> But you've never done anything yet.

Yeah. So, yeah.

That that's what I would do. Austin is in New Orleans. Hi, Austin. How are you?

>> I'm doing great today, guys. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Well, guys, I was hoping to uh get some strategy advice uh from you all on a debt payown. So, just to kind of give you a a 30,000 foot view, um my wife and

I currently have a net worth of approximately 650,000.

>> Um and we currently have debts of

198,000 which is spread across four rental property mortgages.

>> Okay. Your personal residence is paid for. >> Uh yes. So, we we're in the fortunate situation where uh we have a a home that's held in trust that we will inherit um whenever my parents pass away. >> And that's where you're living. >> That house is >> correct. And that house is free and clear. >> Okay. Cool. That's cool. All right. And what's your household income?

>> Uh approximately 165k gross.

>> Okay. So, the only debt you have are these are three rent are four rentals.

>> Uh correct. We So, we have four rentals.

One of them is paid for and then we have mortgages on the remaining three.

>> Okay. That's your only debt. 200 grand.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Cool.

All right. I guess you got two options, right? I mean, it's a baby step six affair. So, you need to be getting you

need to have 3 to six months set aside of expenses, be putting 15% of your income away towards retirement. And money that you find above that is baby step six. You begin to pay off real estate. It's usually the home we're talking about, but in this case, it's real estate. I'm going to list them smallest to largest and pay them off.

How quickly can you pay off 200,000 making 165?

>> Uh, I don't know. We haven't done the math on that yet. Um, but that does not that 165 does not include uh the rental

income that we're bringing in from them.

So, uh, currently we bring in 47.50 50 a

month in rent and then to cover our our

PITI for those properties we're looking at about 25 to 2600 a month. So we got

about >> time by the time you have vacancy and expenses you're not making any money.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We we end up clearing about 1,500 a month after we set aside money for maintenance capex etc.

>> Yeah. It's not it's Yeah. Still not you're not that's not moving the needle towards that's 18 grand a year you owe 200. That's not okay. So, I'm probably

looking at those four properties and going, "Which one do I like the least,

selling it and dumping all of its equity and getting rid of its debt if it if it's one of them that has debt um and dumping all of it to accelerate this cuz I would rather you have a program that you're going to get out of debt faster than you are with this program.

>> You don't have enough You don't have enough money to throw at 200 to get out of debt fast enough to suit me. I I would want to be out of debt in 3 to 5 years if I'm you. >> 50 grand a year, you're done in four years. And if you sell one, it's done even faster. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the plan. You got to be at that. That's a good point.

Yeah. 50 grand a year is for That's the way to do it. >> If you can't do that, I think selling one is a good move. >> Yeah. Agree. That's That's a perfect move.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Katherine

is in Reno. Hi, Katherine. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm great, thank you. >> Good. How can we help?

Well, my husband and I retired in 22 and

we were going to build our house from the ground up. The first year we lived in a trailer as we were putting in the well and bringing in electricity and laying the foundation. And it's now 3 and 1/2 years, almost 4 years later, and

we still can't get in the house because he's he's afraid to take money out of the 401k to uh to hire people to help him.

>> So, you're still in the trailer?

>> No, we are not still in the trailer. We were able to do that for one year and then my husband said, "No more. We're renting an apartment in Reno." >> Okay. And what's it going to cost to finish this project?

>> [sighs and gasps] >> I figure it's going to cost between 1 and 150 to finish the house.

>> How much is in your 401k?

>> Yeah. >> How much is in your 401k?

>> 700,000. >> Okay. And um how old are you guys?

>> He is 71. I am 69.

>> Yes, you should pull out 150 and finish it immediately.

>> Thank you. I just want to sit on my front porch and have coffee with him in the morning. It's time.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, this is this was a bad plan.

>> Yeah, it sounded good and we were >> It didn't It didn't sound good because you didn't have a plan to get the house done in a reasonable period of time.

>> It's not It It's It's hard on a house to not get finished.

>> Yeah. >> If it's not, you know, you got to get the thing in the dryer. It starts rotten down on you.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, you guys been drag button along for three years on this.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. that this was a bad plan from the start. And so, uh, but now we're the now we're where we are. For God's sakes, let's get it finished. It's it's a small percentage of your overall life and you're going to you're not losing the money. You're just investing it in real estate instead of 401k, >> right? >> Now, it's not going to create an income there where in the house, but it's also going to get rid of the rent.

>> Yes. Oh, yes. That's huge.

>> How have you guys been living so far? On what income?

>> Um, he has a pension and social security. >> And so you haven't even touched the 401k since you've been retired.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> Yeah. >> So if you continue down that path, even the money that's left in the 401k would double after about seven years.

>> Yeah, that would be awesome. >> You're 76 and you're sitting there with, you know, a million dollars if you leave 500 in there and it doubles.

>> Yeah, >> that's a pretty good life. >> I feel so much better now. Thank you guys. >> I hope he's convinced. That's the big question. Is he going to go along with this? >> Yeah, I I think he will. I think he's he's getting tired of it, too. So, it just, you know, it just took him getting tired of it all for me to, >> you know, want to ask. >> Yeah. Well, he had this um picture in

his mind of being able to build this house with his own hands and he didn't understand that how hard it was going to be and how long it was going to take.

>> That's very true. And now that So we're kind of giving up that little >> macho dream there.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And just finish it so mama's got a place to drink her coffee for God's sakes. >> He's tired. I ain't been doing this but about four or five minutes. I'm tired. >> Yeah. I'm half his age and I don't have the energy for this. So I'm impressed he even attempted it. >> Hillary's in Vermont. Hi Hillary. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Well, so I'm in the process of trying to

pay off student loans and between like

my federal loans, there's about like

there was 21 to start with.

>> How much? >> But now there >> are 21 loans.

>> Yeah. >> 21 loans. How much do you owe, Hillary?

>> 326,000.

>> Say that again.

>> 326.

326,000.

So, are you a doctor or a lawyer?

>> I'm a pharmacist. >> A pharmacist.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. So, you're making 120?

>> I make about 150.

>> Good. Okay. Are you single?

>> I am. I'm a single mom of two. Yeah.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 31. >> Are you married? No. You said you're a single mom. You're not married. You told me that. Okay.

>> All right. Wow.

>> So, has the balance grown because of interest? What's what's going on here? You've just been making minimum payments.

>> So, I graduated in 2020 and I paid off

through that. I had like two separate loans. So, I had paid off my all my previous private loans which was 70,000

and then I have my federal ones which have been on forbearance and are still in the middle of forbearance. that I've been paying on them since well I've been paying on them since like the other one got paid off >> but now the interest and I tried to pay off as much as I could before the interest started but now the interest is starting and I can't seem to figure paying off >> okay so let let's pretend that you lived on a h 100,000 and you put 50,000 towards this

>> you've not been doing anywhere near that >> foot >> what >> this past year I put like this past year I was trying to put towards my retirement and like plan for my retirement because I don't want to like >> Well, that's a competing goal.

>> You either want to get get out of debt or invest. It's you can't do both at once and make progress.

>> Yeah. So, if you stop retirement and you

stop everything and you live on beans and rice and you attack these student loans like your life depended on it,

could you put a hundred towards them?

Um, probably not a hundred with like my kids are seven and three, so I have daycare. But once like they're no longer in like full-time day, my little isn't in full-time daycare, then I can. So like I could definitely put like at least the 23,000 plus other amount that

I've been. So I could probably put around 40 to >> maybe 50,000. >> Yeah, I want you to Okay, let's go. Let's get it to 75, which is a four-year plan.

So within that though, I was trying to pay off, like I mentioned, they're they're separated between 21 different loans. >> Yeah. You list them smallest to largest.

List them smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. But I want you putting $75,000 a year towards debt.

And if you're putting 75,000 towards debt, >> nothing towards retirement.

>> Nothing towards retirement. You're broke.

You have got to do something different.

You've got to attack these student loans to get rid of them. They're not a pet and they're an ugly zoo animal.

>> Yeah. >> You got I mean, you got completely screwed on your education. You paid like

five times more than you should have to become a pharmacist.

>> Mhm. >> You know that, right? >> Yeah. I'm not sure I'm not sure why it ended up being so much, but yes, I I know. >> Yeah. I'm not sure either because it shouldn't have been anywhere near, you know, $400 and something thousand dollars to become a freaking pharmacist.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right. Now, anyway, we're where we are.

If you do 75* 4, that's 300,

>> four years. So, 100% >> debtree. The goal here is to make more payments than the interest is acrewing.

So, the balance goes down. That's the goal. And right now, you haven't been putting enough toward it in order to make that happen. So, we're telling you, pause investing, pause everything, throw all of your energy towards that smallest debt so that you can begin to make traction. $75,000

a year, $6,000

a month plus $6,500 a month. Okay? And that that

lay out your budget to do that. Hold on. and we'll get you signed up on every dollar and it'll help you walk through this. But you're going to have to tighten the screws down and knock it out. Otherwise, this is going to just keep stay in a death cycle on you.

[music]

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Not in all states. Our question of the day today comes in by voicemail. So, Kelly, give it a play. Hi, I have a question about jumping into investing at this time when stocks are trading so high. I have about $100,000 that I'm looking to invest, but I'm wondering if everything is so high, if this is a bad time to jump in. Am I just going to lose

money? I'm a little bit paralyzed with regard to what to do with this money. It is all I have. I have no debt. I don't have a ton of property or anything. So, this is my retirement savings at 65.

Thank you. >> Wow. Okay. Well, it's a good question.

Thank you for calling in with that. Um, we would tell you to sit down with a good Ramsay Smart Vtor Pro, someone that

we recommend in the investing world, and have a good talk with them and start to understand your options. But I can pan back a little bit and we can talk about the question in general. All right. Um,

in general, is it a good time to invest because the market's high? That's Sue's question, right? And so if you take

$100,000 and you're afraid to put it in now because the market's high, you could lose money. That assume that makes the

what you're saying is if if you really believe that, what you're saying is is that the stock market is never going to go up past where it is.

And there's absolutely no data to indicate that. data that indicates that the stock market has always gone up past

where it is. Like always,

sometimes it dips down, but then it goes back up past where it was.

100% of the time it has done that so far. Okay? We've had some dips, but it

always has returned and gone past where

it was before.

And so the only way that your fear comes true is if it goes down and stays down, which is the first time it would have ever happened in history.

And what you're saying then is is that the best and brightest companies in America that are publicly traded, names like Home Depot or Dell or Apple or McDonald's or Coca-Cola,

names like that are not going to make more money in the next few years.

They're going to make less money than they've ever made in history as a group.

See, this is very unlikely. So, I am 65.

If I had an $100,000 extra to put into

something right now, I would not hesitate to put it all in the stock market in good growth stock mutual funds that have long track records today.

I'd do it by nightfall and I wouldn't even blink. Wouldn't bother me a bit even if it was my last 100,000. Now, I'm

not saying Sue, you should do that because you have some fears and those fears need to the way those fears go away is with a little bit of basic history and knowledge of the stock market. That's why you need to meet with a good adviser. >> Yeah, there's a few questions here. Number one, should I invest when the stock market's high? Yes. Can you retire off of $100,000? I don't think so. And

so, I hope you have other income outside of that. Uh, but if you just pull up Google S&P 500 10-year, you'll see it go

up and to the right and you'll see some scary dips. But if you go back to, you know, 2022, you'll see an all-time high of $4,700. Well, right now it's trading at over $6,800.

>> 6,800 points.

>> Yeah. 1,600 points. And so what you'll see is there was an all-time high every few years. And so you you're actually buying it on sale today because if you look at 2029, it's probably going to be trading higher than it is in 2025.

>> Yeah. >> So that'll give you some hope if you pan back like Dave's talking about and get that perspective. And a Smart Investor Pro can help with that. >> Yeah. You can look at it and see the see how the market moves. The S&P 500 is an

index that is the top 500 stocks on the

stock market and that basically is the stock the New York Stock Exchange. Okay.

And so it basically is the stock market and so if you follow that you can tell what the stock market has done. The news often reports the Dow Jones Industrial Average which is also an index but it's just a handful of 30 or 35 stocks. It's not got anything. This has got 500 the 500 largest companies.

So it is it is the baseline of what we call the stock market the S&P 500. So if you look at that and you can say okay what's is the stock market trading? Is it is it is it a bubble? Is it an illusion?

there has been a dip that someone calls a bubble or something, the market has returned. Because what we're saying here, it's not some this is not a fairy tale. It's not some kind of guy behind

the curtain like the Wizard of Oz or something, right? This is actual companies. Home Depot.

Does Home Depot make money?

McDonald's, do they make money? Do they make a profit? Dell computers, Apple

computers, do they make a profit? And that's the stock you're investing in. A stock is a share of ownership. So, if you're one of the owners of a company that's making a profit, your ownership share goes up in value.

That's a share of stock. It goes up in value. And so when you're buying a mutual fund, it's got 90 to 200 Home Depot, Dell, and Apples in it. Exxon, is

Exxon making a profit? You stinking better believe it? [laughter] You haven't filled up your car lately, have you? So, I mean, you bet these people are making a profit. You can bet some of Are some of them losing money? Yeah, a couple of them are. But the biggest these companies as a group represent the, you know, a a big chunk of the American economy. And so in general, are these companies going up to

in value because they're making a profit and growing? And in general, yes. And in

general, they always have. As a matter of fact, for 70 80 years, the S&P 500

has averaged about 11.8% rate of return per year. That's the average, which also means some years it was less, some years it was more. That's

where we get averages from. Y'all remember the sixth grade, right? And that's where we learned how to average out something. And so that's you you can

pull these things up, look at on the internet real quick, but sit down with someone that can walk you through and you get comfortable. You don't do it because a couple of dudes on a podcast said do it. You sit down and you use

your brain to understand something you never understood before and then you go, "Wow, okay. So George, here's an interesting thing. I never understood this, but there's something maybe psychological about it. I don't know.

Um, the stock market feels far away

sophisticated and I can't uh get my emotions around the

technicalities of it to feel whether

it's going to go up or not.

But you buy a home and you have absolutely zero [snorts]

uh guarantee that it's going to go up in value. And people don't think a heartbeat.

They don't even think a they don't sit and go, I don't know if I bought if I bought a $400,000 home, would it go up in value? People don't think that. That

does not even enter people's minds. They go, "Of course it's going to go up in value because that $400,000 house, I remember 20 minutes ago it was 300,000 and I remember 45 minutes ago it was h 100,000." You know, and and so I remember it. But I guess because we walk around in the midst of the brick and mortar and we watch this, you know, if

you're if you're like 30 years old, you as an you've had 10 years as an adult watching real estate go up. If you're 65

years old, for God's sakes, you have dinosaurs in your backyard, you know.

So, you know, you you've been watching real estate go up. And so, you have this

historical data just kind of stored in your head, although you don't have the actual math, but you feel very safe.

>> Yeah. >> With real estate, >> it's physical. You can see it and touch it. And the stock market is just charts, graphs. >> It's like, woo, [snorts] >> it's it's green and red on the news.

That's all I know. >> Yeah. >> Talking heads are saying it went up. Talking heads are saying it went down.

And so, it doesn't feel as real. And I don't feel as connected to the stock market like I do my own home. Yeah.

>> As it should be, but I still invest in the stock market. >> The interesting thing is they're both you're buying both based on historical data. Has it gone up in value in history? Am I going to lose my butt based on what it did in history? You're buying both of them based on the data.

But people are just so much more comfortable with a home. And I'm glad I'm glad they're buying homes.

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[music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the

debtree stage, Mason and Katie are with

us. Hey guys, how are you? We are hype

hype level 100. >> I love it. Welcome. Good to have you.

Where do you guys live? >> Uh Parker, Colorado. It's about 30 minutes south of Denver. >> Got it. Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. >> Thank you. >> Good to have you. And here to do a debtree scream. I love it. How much have

you guys paid off? >> Uh it's uh $5.5 million in the last three years. [laughter] >> Oh my god.

>> That might be a record for me personally from what I've heard. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. There's a story here. So what is your range of income pretale during that time? >> Yeah. Well, before I I I'll answer that.

I want to thank you. This is a bigger deal than we can ever express. I'm actually almost in tears. Oh god.

[laughter] Um uh 20 years ago, I didn't

expect to cry. That's crazy. Uh 20 years ago, I I was introduced to you. I had a a buddy. He was getting married and the FPU was at our church and we were stuck in the proverbial 3-hour ski traffic coming home and he popped in the CDs and

I'm like, "Live on less than you make." and save and pay off debt. This guy's a freaking genius. And uh so I I started uh just inundating myself with it for two to three months. I was single at the time. And uh God just absolutely gripped

my heart. I've since become a financial adviser. And and the long story short is because of everything that you guys have done for years. And I met my now wife uh three years after that. I've been a financial adviser ever since. I was an ELP uh for almost 5 years in the Denver area. So uh this is more than just a moment to us. We've been leading it at our churches for 15 16 years after you.

We got four baby girls. Um and so I mean I'm I'm hyper emotional. We're hyper emotional. But >> the deepest of thank yous.

You literally change a trajectory of my life which then turned into our lives, our girls' lives, our our faith community, everybody. Uh our team. We got team 10 people that work at our company now. I mean it's >> it's rippling because of what God did through you.

So that's why I'm choked up and and that's why we're super hypeing [laughter] >> trying to tamper it down, but I'm over the moon.

>> So that's wild. Thank you very much. And can thank you for leading the class all those years and all the people you've helped. That's absolutely incredible. So what it was $5.5 million.

>> Yeah. So um the other long story short

is I when we got married came back with $63 in our bank account uh from our honeymoon. So we were broke as a joke. I was working two and three jobs and I started uh the path of I gave myself one year to be a financial adviser. Um she was working her full-time job making 40 45 at the time.

Uh we finished paying off our debts when you I think it was the Fox Business Show. So 15 something years ago we were on there um consumer debt our consumer debt. Yeah.

>> Never had consumer debt since then and buying a house and then another house and then our third house. So um the the

everything grew over that time just above and beyond anything I could have ever imagined with what God did in our business. We're the soul owners. But then in the last 3 years uh the business revenue uh has been between 2 and a half and $4.5 million. And um at any given

time it's 15 to 25% of that is going to staff and >> rent and all the things. Uh and then we always had our mortgage uh at about that that total number is about half and half with our mortgage. And then uh uh the other half is were uh two retiring adviserss sold their book uh to me.

>> Oh, okay. >> So it's not consumer debt. We didn't go take out more debt. Uh and so it's kind of like working for free. So that was on a 5-year note. We paid it off two weeks ago in 3 years. The house we put on a 10-year. We paid it off two weeks ago in three years. So um that's the long story short. [laughter] >> So what's the house worth?

>> Uh about 4 million now.

>> I love it. >> Congratulations, you guys. I'm so proud of y'all. You have absolutely killed it.

>> Very cool. Okay, tell me about the sweatshirt. I like it. God over money.

>> That's right. I wear these types of things all the time. It's a a Christian group. It's just one of their mottos. Uh God over money. And so I'm always wearing uh stuff like this. It felt fitting for uh uh uh what our lives are all about and and the faith principles and what the Bible teaches. So >> felt right. That's why I'm wearing it.

>> Yeah, it fits in around here. You're right. You're right. No question about And to find a financial adviser who decided to pay off his mortgage, that's rare in its own right. It is shocking.

>> And then wears a sweatshirt saying got over money. That's good. That's [laughter] good. >> That's beautiful. >> These are two good things right here. So, excellent job.

>> So, now the books of business are clear.

The house is clear. All these years you've been teaching this, did it feel different than you thought it was going to?

>> Uh, yes and no. Because I've had so many clients that have paid it off and I've kind of like lived vicariously through that. And I've I've listened to this show, you know, we countless times led the class. Uh but also when it hits like uh today >> Yeah.

But when it happened to you, >> today's our first day that we were supposed to have our mortgage payment zapped today and so it's also fitting that we're here cuz it didn't get zapped out today. So it's going to sink in this month and next month and and so yeah, it's somewhat as expected and it's also sinking in as we speak because I'm like, wait, it's it's not coming out of our account today. I will say I thought that when we went to the bank and we we were all excited and we had our big check and we thought they were going to maybe have confetti cannons and throw us a party, but it's pretty somber.

So [laughter] the bank is not happy that you're not going into debt. You got to bring your own soundtrack and confetti.

Yeah. >> Oh, that's incredible. Well, this is a mess in their parking lot. >> That's right. You guys get it. You know, this is good. This is good. The bank didn't get it. >> No, they're not going to get it though.

>> So, what's next for you guys? You're still so young. You got your whole life ahead of you. What do you do now?

>> Outrageous giving even more than we've been doing. Uh, baby step seven to the fullest. And, you know, uh, it's I mean, that's that's the short answer. It's that simple. And, and just, uh, we we teach and, you know, we basically Dave Ramsey people's lives as, uh, we kind of jokingly say, uh, professionally. So, it's going to keep serving and and pouring in like we've always done.

>> Yeah. And I just, I have just have to say to God be all the glory. And you guys are so amazing. And ultimately, you're just teaching biblical principles.

So, our goal as a couple is to um just try to model that and encourage the people that we know to do the same and to experience that kind of freedom um that you guys have. It just it seated into our lives. I only went to Financial Peace University when we were dating to impress him. I didn't really care.

[laughter] But now, I'm so I'm just eternally grateful for the trajectory that it set us on. And we actually debated um doing this because we didn't want it to seem I don't know showy or anything like that. But then we ultimately were like this is about inspiring other people to just get rid of the chains you know and experience to experience freedom.

>> Amen. Well done. Well done. So, tell me

you're going to do something fun.

>> I mean, this is this is the start. This is the surprise. I mean I mean [laughter] I mean something fun. What are y'all doing? Oh, man. We We We love trips and and quality time with our family. So, we'll do more. >> So, we'll do we'll do a good trip.

>> Yeah, we'll do a good trip. This is the trip. This, all joking aside, this is our moment, but we'll keep doing you

know, but we love doing uh uh trips with others [snorts] and and blessing them to get some uh investing in memories. Uh, and so >> maybe get myself a hot pink car. That might be [laughter] my fun thing.

>> We got We got four girls. We got four girls. We got a lot of hot pink. That's our thing. [laughter] >> That's How old are the girls?

>> They're 9, 11, 13, and 15.

>> Wow. They're old enough where this is a memory for them. Watching mom and dad sacrifice and hustle to give them the most incredible life. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah, >> I just have to give him a little shout out too that in those early days when this change was made, this was um side

gig after side gig, umpiring Etsy jobs,

anything we can do, eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for years in order to establish getting to that point where we could just snowball to this point now where we can actually pay off our mortgage. So, um, I just he he just

worked so hard and has run his business through your entra leadership principles and the culture has formed within that and God's just been so good and blessed that and I know it's just because it's been so honoring of of God throughout the whole process. So, >> yeah, >> that's sweet. That's very good. It's uh >> faith and tenacity and character. It's all woven in there and it's why you guys are here. >> You guys are rock stars, man. You're very cool. >> I'm so grateful. What a great What a great visity.

You You built an amazing thing each and every person in here. This is special.

It's literally life-changing. Changed our lives in every sense of the word.

God is good. Uh thank you guys. Uh thank you Dave for day one. We appreciate it.

>> You're You guys are amazing. I'm so proud of you. [laughter] >> Thank you. >> Mason and Katie, DENVER, COLORADO. 5 A.5

MILLION PAID OFF IN three years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, ONE. [screaming]

[cheering] >> I'm scared of that guy. >> I'm thinking he might be the best financial planner I've ever seen.

[laughter] >> I might hire him out.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Spencer's in Idaho. Hey Spencer, how are you?

>> Good. Thanks Dave for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up?

Yeah. So, I'm 22 years old. Um, I'm

close to my associates degree in business management and I've been working for an excavation company for 2 years. Um, earlier this spring, my boss

offered to sell me his company for $750,000.

Um, it's got about $1.5 million worth of

equipment and we do right around $2 million of revenue a year. Um, I'm

calling to ask if this is a good financial decision at a young age like me or if I'm in too much over my head.

>> What is your position with the company?

>> Um, so I'm right now I'm just an operator. Um, that's what I've done for the last couple years. I'm new to the industry, so I've just been learning as much as I can. Um, I have kind of become

uh more of a lead, like a crew lead or manager >> over the last 6 months, but that's where I've been. >> Did he approach you specifically with this deal?

>> Uh, yes. So, one of my co-workers um was the one that initially brought it up and then he likes the idea. Uh, he's 74 years old and so he's looking to get out of the business and I was interested in getting in. So that's kind of how the conversation started. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, the

analysis is this. You've never run a business.

>> And now And now we're talking about running a business that has $2 million gross revenue.

>> Mhm. >> And you've never run you've never even been in operations. The only thing you've operated as a bulldozer.

And so >> so that that's the downside, right? I mean, you don't know what you're doing.

Um, >> yes, that's true. >> And so it's not because of your age. If you were 52 and you had never run a

business, you've never run a business.

And running a business is a series of skills like any like running a dozer is a series of skills. It's just different ones. So it's not that you can't learn it. Uh, but that's your big leap right

there. And I'm I'm a little bit not understanding why he's selling a business that has a top line of 2 million but has book value of $1.5

million worth of equipment for only 750,000. So you could sell off half the equipment and be clear the first year, right?

>> Yeah, that's true. Um equipment is

>> Why doesn't he just sell off the equipment and make twice the money?

Um, I feel like a lot of it's because the equipment's really old and >> Well, if is it worth a million and a half or not?

>> Yeah, it is. Yeah. >> It has anything to do with how old it is. If you if you bought the business and turn around, sold off the equipment.

Let's just play pretend for a second.

Okay, here's how dumb this is. You buy it for $750,000.

A month later, you sell off the equipment for a million and a half

and close the business and put $700,000 in your pocket.

>> That's weird.

>> Okay, >> that that's You see what I'm saying?

That that that doesn't ring that doesn't [clears throat] ring. >> Something is off about this. >> There's something wrong. >> Why How did he get to this valuation of 750? Was it just a wet finger in the air?

Well, we only do I mean we're only working nine or 10 months out of the year. Um we're the profit margins are pretty low.

They're seven or eight% and he is financing it through himself to me. And

so he feels like to be able to pay the bills and make that payment that's that's where it needs to be to make it work.

Okay.

Um, yeah, this is this Well, okay. Um,

so what kind of you're making a seven or eight% margin, so you're making like $150,000 a year off of 2 million.

>> Corre correct? >> Profit. Profit.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Net taxable income.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Based on that, it's not worth 750.

Okay, >> it's worth 400, 3 to 400. >> Okay, >> but the other problem is there's another way to value a business and that's book value, which is if you close it and sell off all the assets, what would you get?

And in this case, you'd get a million and a half. So,

um, you know, if you didn't have if you didn't have the high book value, then this thing would be worth nowhere near what he's asking based on its profitability. So, he's correct in that he's trying to set you up to where you can at least stay open uh and pay him the 750. But, uh

[sighs] how many pieces of equipment?

Oh, um he's got six excavators, four

loaders, grater,

um bunch of attachments for it. Um, then

he's got semiis. He's got a transportation side with trailers. He's got a lot of a lot of equipment, but there is no land. This 1.5 million is just an >> I got that. I got that. Okay. So, I'm I'm just trying to think. Gosh, if I were advising him, I would advise him to close the business and sell the stuff.

He'll make twice as much.

>> Okay. If I'm advising you,

I don't um well, number one, I got a

real concern that you've never operated a business and that you know, you might

not make any money because you don't know the operations side of getting the clients, getting the contracts signed, running the payables, run the payroll, that you know, doing the marketing. There's there's a lot of things to operating a business. And um I I would love for you to have been mentored as his >> vice president of operations for two years before you called me and asked this and then it would have been an easier answer. You see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. He does want to mentor me for a couple of years, but he's wanting out pretty soon. >> Yeah. It's kind of like tossing a kids tossing a 13-year-old uh or or or tossing me. I've never operated a bulldozer. You toss me the keys the bulldozer and go, "Hey, have fun.

I got a feeling I'm going to knock the neighbor's house down. Okay. So, because I don't know what the flip I'm doing with with no instruction, but if he's going to come alongside you and instruct you for two years, then that helps a bunch. >> And then you said he's doing the financing to you as some seller financing deal.

>> So, how would how would that work out?

>> So, he wants to finance it over 10 years and I'll basically pay him $75,000 a

year and he wants it in quarterly payments. Yeah,

but he you could sell off two or three pieces of equipment and pay him off almost immediately.

>> Yeah, that's correct.

>> If that was the plan and you got two years of mentoring on operations and your plan is not to pay him off over 10 years, it's to pay him off over 10 months because you're going to liquidate enough equipment to pay him off, then I would be okay. you're going to have a debt-free business with $750,000 worth of equipment that you know how to operate and um

you overpaid for it, but you didn't

overpay for it because you got assets with it. So, it's a weird calculation.

You following all this girration I'm doing? >> Yeah, I follow you. >> Okay. And uh hang on. I'm going to have Christian hook you up with one of our Entre Leadership coaches and give you a little bit more assistance than just uh a podcast radio show answer and let one

of our we've got we coach 10,000 small businesses. So, one of those coaches could actually help you walk through some of this. But I think if you know how to operate it and it's debtree,

I don't care if you're 22. You're sharp talking to you.

good these margins are too low everybody I know in that business makes money.

It's a It's a money maker if it's

operated right. And I think he's just kind of let things go cuz he's tired.

So, I got a feeling you can get your margins up 10 15%. And start making some

serious bank on this. You could make more money with less equipment and no debt later on. That's where it could be your future. Interesting. Interesting cost. What a riddle that was. >> Yeah. Really?

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Hey, the

phone number here is8825-55225.

Virginia is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Virginia. How are you?

>> I'm good. Hi Dave. Hi George. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. So um my husband and I are currently working through the baby steps. We are on step two. Um we have about $118,249

in debt that we have to work through. Um we had a lot of stupid tax in our 20s.

Um, basically we grew up u me specifically I grew up um very poor without anything. My birthother um relied on a lot of government agency assistance and uh we barely had food um

to make it through. So right now while we're working through the baby steps, I'm having a really hard time letting go of the whatif moments. Um, so whenever we do have the margin um during that month to pay off a good chunk of debt, it's just getting really hard for me to not um put it towards the debt and just keep it in savings. So my question is like how do I work through that like fight or flight mode that I've been in my entire life without um like I just want to build generational wealth for my two for our two kids.

>> I I really appreciate you. You're amazing. That's a great your self-awareness and your the the forming of your question is just excellent. Just very well done.

>> Very well done. So, um >> what do you do for a living?

>> Um so I actually work from home. Um I'm a retail support operations specialist and my husband is a diesel mechanic.

>> What's your household income?

>> Um so household we make after tax about

uh $112,710

each year. Okay. So, he's doing really well as a diesel mechanic then, and he should be.

That's a great field.

>> Okay. Um, and your degree is in what?

>> Um, we actually both dropped out of college. We, um, my we both have associates. Um, he has an associate business and I have an associate of art.

So, we're actually >> just have an associates. >> Okay. All right. So, um, I'm going to

send you a copy of, uh, Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And she talks a lot about uh in that book the

things you were talking about here which is like family of origin and how that affects um you know how you how you handle money in your marriage and how you h how you the feelings you have about money that you so clearly articulated and all of those things. And um I I have a friend

that was um that never really got healed

>> from what you're talking about. Um, and he was worth several hundred million dollars and he he he worked, you know, like 12 hours a day.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but he he said, "I grew up dirt poor." And for those of you that don't know what that means, that means literally the floor of the house was dirt. >> Mhm. >> That's what dirt poor means in East Tennessee. Okay. Or in the hills of Appalachia. And so he grew up in a dirt floor house. They called that dirt poor.

I've heard it my whole life. Mhm.

>> And so, um, but he he never got over his childhood, the trauma >> that his childhood represented on the on the subject of money. And so, he just he could never make enough. He could never save enough because he never got healed from that. >> Absolutely. >> And that's that's that's the beauty of your question is you're the opposite end of that. You're seeking healing.

>> And so, um, Dr. John Deloney gave us a

great saying. He I first heard him say cover it back during COVID. Um, but he's

done a lot of trauma work. And for purposes of this discussion, we're going to declare your childhood traumatic.

>> That's Yeah, that's very fair. >> At a min at a minimum, it was dramatic, but we might call it traumatic. And he said, when you've had when you're in the middle of trauma, it affect it, it it

has a signature in your body. And so you

physically feel like you did when you

were a child when you write these checks

because it brings back all those fears and your body tenses up in exactly the same places it did when you were 12.

>> Yes, 100%. >> And that's how trauma works. He's explained that to me. I didn't know that, but he's a he's got a PhD in in this stuff. So he's taught a lot of he taught a lot of us around here stuff like this. So he says when you're dealing with this and you your body starts to remember and act like you're

still broke, like you're 12 years old and you don't have enough to eat, >> your body starts remembering that. But that's not the facts. He says the way to work through that is facts are your friends. >> Mhm. >> And you stop for a second and go, okay, what are the facts? The facts are I'm

not my mom.

>> Yeah. My the facts are our kids are not in the same situation my kids are. The facts are we make over a hundred freaking thousand dollars a year and my husband has one of the most employable careers on the planet right now.

>> Mhm. >> The chances of him going without work is really close to zero.

>> That's good to know. He actually just got promoted to diesel tech. So I'm very excited about that. >> I'm telling you, he's never going to be without work as long as he physically can do the work. That's that's good >> because there's there's a shortage and and it's the trades and the trades are booming right now. He's in a he's in a really sweet spot. That's a fact. So the

fact is you're so far away mathematically from your childhood.

>> Mhm. >> That these feelings then are illogical and you can begin to tell yourself that.

>> Yes. Yeah. And and I do I I'm actually kind of the nerd of of our marriage and I have a a paper I I I do it old school.

I I have Every Dollar but just the free version. So I do an old school like monthly budget and I do it every two weeks just to see kind of where we're landing to just show me, hey, you do make over $100,000 a year. You're insane. Stop acting like that.

>> It's not It's not insane. It's not insane. It's the result of bad things happening. If something bad happens, your body remembers that.

>> Yeah. and you literally physiologically

relive that fear.

You, you know, your shoulders tighten up. Uh, you know, your your shoulders raise up. You know, you're you're in, you're like you said, you're in fight or flight mode. >> Yeah. >> And your lizard brain is kicking in instead of your high thinking, high functioning brain because that's what happens when danger comes.

>> And so, we all face this. We all face this. And so, for different reasons, different things activate that. whether it's childhood or something else. And so, um, you know, I I think you just

practice stopping when you start having that feeling and tell your body that it's wrong.

>> Okay. Yeah, I can do that. I actually told myself that it's wrong. >> Yeah. Deep breaths. This is you're you're wrong. We are not there. That's where we were when I was 12, but I'm not 12. I'm not my mom, and we're not in

that situation.

And no blame or shame. It's just where we are. The fact is you're not in any

danger.

And it just takes a little while for your body and your for you to retrain

your your brain to go to observe where you are. Does that make sense?

>> It does. It absolutely does. And and I agree with you 100%. I mean, to your point, the math is there. It's it's plain on paper that >> we're not we're not drowning. We just need to work a little bit hard to get out of the hole that we're in. >> Yeah. You didn't you didn't you didn't you didn't say the math wasn't there.

You you just said I can't get the emotions to stop.

>> Right. >> How much do you have in savings?

>> Um right now we're I mean we have our baby step one. So we have $1,000. Um and then we're we're slowly chunking away.

Um I actually just paid off one of our >> [music] >> um credit cards. I mean it was only $500, but I actually just you know pulled the trigger and and paid it off this way to go. Hey, we're going to upgrade your every dollar to the advanced version. We're going to pay for it for you. I think you're amazing. I'm [music] so proud of you guys. Keep it up. >> You know your numbers and that tells me you're going to get out of this. >> You're going to be okay.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> You know, our last caller talking about the feelings and the emotions around money reminded me of Jade Warshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money.

The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. This is the

true thing here where

the emotions Jade gets into the emotions

in this book like like no one else. It's really good cuz she dealt with so much emotion fighting through her and Sam paying off $465,000 of debt. So, this is a great new book by

Jade Washaw, one of our Ramsay Solutions uh publishing endeavors. And uh you can

pre-order it right now for $24.99. Get over $100 in free bonus items, enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to the exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Wall.

And here's what's cool. They're going to do exclusive 3-week online book club for those that pre-order >> that includes a live Q&A with Jade for 3

weeks. >> That's cool. >> That's going to be neat.

>> And so, uh, and I promise you this lady can walk you right straight through whatever you're on, moving you right to where you want to go. And that's that's the thing. So, >> this will get you unstuck if you're on that journey. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's pretty cool. The book is What No One Tells You About Money. So, be sure and get it pre-ordered right now at ramiesolutions.comstore.

Paige is with us in Chicago. Hi, Paige.

How are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I just had a question um about

saving for my son. I am 24. My son's 18

months. Um, I'm a stay-at-home mom and

my husband and I I find it well, he also does too. We're really looking into saving for our son for big things, uh,

school, down payment on a home when he gets older, um, just big things that

will help him later in life get a step ahead.

And I was just looking for advice on maybe like how um, maybe like investment

accounts or saving accounts, compoundable accounts, like things like that. Right now, we're just putting uh $80 away a month for him.

>> Into what? >> And um it's just into a mun municipal

fund. It's not anything crazy or special. >> Okay. Well, there's not anything crazy or special. And uh it sounds like you're very excited about having a new baby, and that's awesome. And you're good mommy and good daddy. You want your kid to do better than you've done. That's awesome. Proud of you for all of that.

Uh, I personally would tell you not to use special accounts that are earmarked just for him. I simply would build wealth. You and your husband build some wealth and then as he gets older, you

can reach over and pay for college. Or as he gets older, you can reach over and buy a house and give it to him. And if you want to, those two things would cause him to leapfrog ahead. A paid for education and a free house. you know, if he if he gets some knowledge with that and some wisdom to go with that, he could go be a millionaire in 20 seconds if he did if he had those two things alone. But you could do that just out of your personal mutual fund account. You

don't have to have a special earmarked for him. He could be your motivation for

building that and that's a wonderful motivation changing your family tree, right? >> Oh, yeah. For sure. >> Yeah.

>> So, the key is it's it's in your name, you have control. Because here's the issue. If he turns 18 and there's $200,000 in there, you have to hope he wants to buy a house and do something wise with it. But you remember when we were 18, our brain was not thinking quite logically.

And so that's the danger of just handing over six figures to an 18-year-old. So 529 plan is great for college savings. And then outside of that, if you want to open just a mutual fund account, a brokerage account like Dave mentioned, you can invest for him there in your name. >> Yeah.

I would just I just have you be building wealth. Yes. I would be saving for college on 529 when you get to that baby step five wherever you are in the baby steps.

so here's here let me give you an example. Okay we saved up for our kids college our three kids that are now not kids that are now grown humans. Okay?

>> And uh and in those days there wasn't a

529. So, we just saved what was called

an utma, uniform transfer to miners act, which simply means we opened an account in their name in good mutual funds and

we were the custodian. It was their money, okay? And it grew at their tax

rate. And you can do that and that you could do that or you can do a 529.

Either one. 529 grows taxfree, which is the benefit of that. So, and and here's

what happened though. When they got to college, we had started doing so well

that I just wrote the checks out of the checking account and paid for college.

>> Cash flow it. >> I just cash flowed it. So that ended up with each kid having a nice big nest egg

in the mutual funds. And when they graduated from college, I signed that over to them [clears throat] and that gave them a pretty good chunk like the amount of college, right, to get started with.

That was pretty sweet. And so stuff like that is easy to do, but there's no I I

would not bifurcate something at for an 18-month-old, set it aside in his name, create some double backflip trust crap or something, and then hope that all works out. Instead, I think you raise the kid and you raise a big pile of money and you'll be able to combine the two. If they both

work, [laughter] >> that's the big thing. >> If both turn out, the big pile of money turns out and the kid turns out, then we can combine them. That's called winning as a parent. >> Yeah. But I mean, you don't want to give a 18-year-old heroin addict $200,000.

You'll kill them because they'll go overdose in a heartbeat. And so that that's the problem. And I'm not suggesting that your little guy's going to end up that at all. Uh but I have in 35 years of doing this heard some really sad stories. So I I just keep it in your name. Build a big old pile of wealth.

Get yourself out of debt. You know, be investing in your 401ks and have some mutual fund investing to the side. And then you look over and there's some money and uh he gets married and you want to buy him a house and pay cash for it. Tell him never get into debt. And he's a great young man. He's a citizen.

He graduated from college. He's making a good money. He's standing on his own two feet. He's not living in his mommy's basement sucking his thumb at 24 years old. And this is a great kid. Yeah,

write a check. Buy him a house. I would definitely do that. Definitely.

Open phones at 888255225.

Katie is in De Moine. Hi Katie, how are you? >> Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure, what's up?

>> So, just a little bit of background for you. Um, I am just about to turn 40 here at the end of the month and my husband and I have been married for six years.

We bought a home 5 years ago and we were

in pretty good shape. um we both worked full-time and then I got sick um and had

to drastically reduce my income because

of that and we went through financial

peace university right before that happened. Um so we were on baby step number one still. Um and I got we've

gotten ourselves into quite a bit of credit card debt at this point and

because of all the health challenges and medical and just just so many things. Um >> the you don't have you don't have health insurance to cover most of that.

>> Oh, we do. Yeah. Um but so I've been

type 1 diabetic since I was 10. So I've been dealing with that for 30 years. So that just adds extra finances on top of

um I'm dealing with some type of autoimmune issue that we haven't been able to figure out. Um been going to lots of doctors. Some some doctors

like holistic functional not >> how much how much student I mean I'm sorry. How much credit card debt do you have? um 18,000 right now and I have four different credit cards. >> Okay. And and um

h have you found a diagnosis?

>> Um I think we're on the brink of it. I'm going to see a rheatologist here um next week. >> I just found out I have some type of um autoimmune thyroid issue going on on top

of >> So you've got no energy.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. I can barely

You can barely what?

>> I can barely work.

>> I understand. I'm so sorry. And you said

you're 40?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. I will be. >> And what's your husband's income?

>> Uh my husband um gross income or net?

>> Gross. >> Growth in is 60,000.

>> Okay. And how much is your house payment?

>> Um house payment is $1,241.

>> Okay. Listen, I think you guys have had

the crud beat out of you with this medical thing and the emotions that go with that. I think you've done amazingly well considering everything that's coming at you. I think you really really have done good job. So, keep doing a good job and get the other side of this and then you can figure out what you're doing. The house is not causing [music] you a problem and 18,000 is not causing you a problem. You can clean that up as soon as you get your health returned.

>> [music]

>> 14 months ago, my wife Sharon and I went on a 13-day journey through [music]

the country of Turkey. visiting each of the churches of Revelation with an incredible Bible teacher who has become a close friend, Brad Gray. Brad is

joining us because Brad's working on a project that he got to tell me about while we were in Turkey. And we've been uh kind of teamed up a little bit. I've been part of his background vocals uh while he's been working on this thing. And uh we've had a couple of events and things raising some money for this because this this project is absolutely

stunning and incredible and I want to be able to tell you about it. So, I brought Brad on. Uh, he has a fulllength feature

film called The Lord's Prayer, 1 hour and 22 minutes. Sharon and I watched it the other night. It is the visuals and the um the photography is world class.

It will blow your mind. And he spends that hour and 22 minutes unpacking the Lord's Prayer. You've got to watch it.

We're going to provide it for you. He's going to provide it for you for free uh through Angel. It's with Angel Studios.

So, angel.com/rramsey, you can watch it for free. Welcome, my friend. >> Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you.

>> Good to have you. So, how I know you're

working on this and I know the answer because I've heard you tell this, but I want to throw you the underhand pitch.

You've been working on the whole sacred thread concept all through scripture and teaching scripture in a way that uh

translates to the big screen or translates to your television screen to where we can learn it at a different rate and a different way because when you see the locations it shifts the learning but you started with the Lord's Prayer. Now you got an entire book the book is out bringing heaven here uh which is a book on the Lord's Prayer and 122 minutes on the Lord's Prayer which we all just recite like and we're done. >> Yeah. >> And it but when you unpack it the way you do, it's pretty incredible.

>> Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. >> So, what inspires you to write an entire book and do this feature film on the Lord's Prayer? >> Yeah.

Well, it actually began seven years ago without any thought of a book or a film or a television series, but I was actually just sitting down and reading the sermon on the mount. When Jesus gets to the Lord's Prayer, he prefaces it with, "And this then is how you should pray." And I just had a moment where I was like, h like I think he actually meant it. [laughter] And which was almost embarrassing for me. I've been leading these study trips since 2010.

I was a pastor for more than a decade. I've been in church world my entire life. And yet the Lord's Prayer wasn't something that was part of my daily regimen. And I just realized at that moment that I needed to do a very deep dive for my own soul.

result of going through it and seeing what was there, it was much deeper, much wider, more compelling than I ever knew.

And because it started to transform my life, my faith, my prayers, my thoughts,

and just how I went about life every day, when we started to work on this idea to create the highest quality documentary series that's ever been done on the Bible, it was like, then let's start with the Lord's Prayer. Everything is contained in that. >> Yeah. That that it's all there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then but then we can go deeper and wider even from that. But let this be the jumping off point.

And uh as I said, what gave you guys the idea to go to the location cuz you're standing next to the pyramids, you're standing next to the Nile, you're standing, you know, in all these different locations where some of the singular words in the prayer were originated like father is the opening thing, right? >> Our father and then you do 10 minutes on father. Yep.

>> So, my first study trip to the Middle East happened in 2006 and it completely

revolutionized my faith because you hear all these stories growing up and then you actually go to the locations and everything fits and you're just like, "Oh, this thing is real." And just being there and walking it changes the way that you engage and experience the story. And so when we wanted to put this documentary series together, uh most people would think, oh, Jesus is giving the Lord's Prayer in Israel. You're going to be in Israel. We're actually in six different countries for this opening film and season because all of these pieces are connecting around the Roman Empire.

They're connecting back to Egypt for the Exodus story for Jesus.

>> we just knew that 99.9% of people, even just professing Christians, will never set foot in the Holy Lands. And we wanted to bring that not just to people in America, but all over the world to be able to see these locations and allow them to make some additional connections to connecting the dots of scripture. >> That's incredible. Well, you you call this prayer a framework for transformation.

And I'm reminded by our mission here at Ramsey. We're in the transformation business, you know, for your money, your your work, your life, your relationships. In what way is this relevant today to help transform people's lives?

>> Yeah. Well, the greatest thing about the Lord's Prayer that was kind of really revealed to me was this is actually the

most distilled place in scripture for helping people to understand who God is, why Jesus came, and what's our purpose here on earth. You know, and that's one of the things that you guys do such a great job with is helping people to be very clear and focused on what's important and doing the right things in order to live life the best way that you can. And the Lord's prayer is a blueprint for living. It wasn't just a prayer Jesus taught people to pray.

It was the very prayer that he was living out in his own life.

learn that over the last seven years in particular of praying this prayer every day, it's the singular most important

thing I do every day to re-calibrate to

what is the most important aspects of life and how do we live life well as a result of it. >> Wow. Was it Ent Wright that you were interviewing that said he prayed it every morning? >> Yes. >> He was He's in the documentary.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's in the documentary.

Yeah. >> He said he starts his prayer or ends his prayer. >> Ends his prayer. Yeah. >> Every time with the Lord's prayer because it's a framework. >> Because it's a framework. >> Because it resets. It's a a settling point. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Very cool. Very cool. Again, you got to go watch this. It's completely free, boys and girls. Go to angel.com/ramsey.

Angel has made it free for you guys and you can watch it there and stream it and just pop it up on your screen. Sharon and I watched it the other night. The premiere was done here at the Ramsey Event Center a few weeks ago. Um I was out of town, missed that, but I heard it went real well.

It was awesome. >> And a lot of people were I was getting texts from all my friends that were friends of yours that were in the audience watching it going, "Hey Brad, you got the thing out.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] I'm glad. Give us this day our daily bread.

>> Yeah, I love this part of the prayer because actually you mentioned NT Wright, you know, he wrote a book um a number of years ago where he said the problem with asking for daily bread is that we get there too soon and that so

often times when we open up prayer, we have kind of a laundry list of all the things that we want to ask for we that we need. And what's great about daily bread is it actually comes much further down in the prayer where the rest of it kind of sets the frame for what are we called to do? How are we supposed to to partner with God in the world? And daily bread really becomes about asking God for what is essential for the task at

hand. Like when we're called to do something, what's essential? And the thing that's so great about the daily bread piece is that it also reminds us that the whole prayer is in the plural.

Give us this day our daily bread. And when you dig into just what daily bread meant and what Jesus was inviting his community into, it's not just asking God for the things that you need. It's also supposed to cause you to pause and ask the question, how am I being generous?

So that when other people are praying, give us this day our daily bread, c can I play a part in being the fulfillment of their request? So it's actually part of the prayer that really inspires a sense of generosity. And too often we

get so caught up in asking for things or pursuing things that don't actually matter. I mean, the number of calls you guys get in, people are making bad decisions because they're pursuing the wrong things. And they're pursuing the wrong things in the wrong way. This is a part of the prayer where we're going, okay, God, what is essential?

What do I really need? And how can I be generous with what you've given to me so that when somebody else is praying, give us this day our daily bread, I might actually be that answer. >> Yeah, good reminder.

uh, where he literally walks you through the text in different locations. That's what Sharon and I were doing with Revelation Churches in in Turkey, uh, with a group there and with him. It was absolutely incredible time. Uh, the new film, it's a fulllength 1 hour and 22minute feature film. You get to watch it free. Angel.com/ramsey.

It's called The Lord's Prayer. [music] Recommended heavily. And of course, Bringing Heaven here is the companion piece book. You can get it anywhere great books are sold. I assume Amazon.

>> Yes. >> Yes. Amazon for sure. Okay. Be sure and check it out. So, Bringing Heaven here and the Lord's Prayer. My friend, I'm proud of you. This is really good work.

Thanks for stopping in. >> Yeah. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >> Brad Gray, ladies and gentlemen,

[music]

[music]

Our

[music]

scripture of the day, Psalm 128:2, you will eat the fruit of your labor.

Blessings and prosperity will be yours.

Steve Jobs said, "The only way to do great work is to love what you do." If you haven't found it yet, keep looking.

Don't settle. One of our favorite things here is finding out that people share their stories of how they're winning. We just heard this from Claire and Winston.

This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app, and I'm amazed at how much money we found.

We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3500

extra margin each month to put towards our debt. We had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off in less than 3 months, never going back.

Boy, that's cool, guys. That's amazing.

I'm proud of you. Hey, guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money and change your family tree and live like no one else. Go to and go go

online and download the Every Dollar Budgeting app for free. It's a full plan. Budgeting is just in the background. We're going to walk you through the Ramsay plan and show you exactly how to do this stuff. Go get every dollar and get it right now. Amy's in Grand Rapids. Hi, Amy. How are you?

>> Hi. Thanks so much, Dave and George, for taking my call. Sure. >> Um, I'm calling because my husband and I would like you guys to help settle a difference of opinion we have >> on how to invest our 15%. Mhm.

>> Um so one of us would like to invest that in, you know, ETFs, mutual funds in our Roth IAS, Roth 401k. Um the other

would like to invest in a unique real estate situation we have on our paid for property on Lake Michigan.

>> A paid for is it a rental property?

>> No, it's actually where we live. So we have our home is paid for.

>> Fixing up your home is not investing.

It's fixing up your home.

Well, we have a like a second home, a cabin, one of those like A-frame Sears

kit things. >> Mhm. >> And we were hoping to renovate that and

then bring it up and rent it out.

>> Oh, okay. So, it's not in rental condition now.

>> Right. Exactly. >> What will it take to fix it?

>> Well, it's also on the edge of the bluff, so we'd have to move it back, which would be about 30,000. And then to bring it up to rental grade would be about another 70,000. So we're looking at like a h 100,000 and all.

>> How much do you guys have saved right now?

>> Um not really much. So we actually had a

repair on our house set us back to baby step three. So, we're rebuilding that right now and we're trying to figure out when we hit play which way to go on this >> because we've had some property managers that have been like you can get, you know, 1,500 to 2,000 a week because it's really unique >> as like an Airbnb >> property. >> Yeah, exactly.

>> Well, I don't see this in the category of baby step four. Baby step four is invest 15% in retirement. And this is not retirement. >> This is real estate investing. >> Just separate it. just doing 15% retirement and above that save up this chunk and cash flow the renovation. >> What's your household income?

>> Okay. About 225,000.

>> Okay. All right.

Um Okay. The um you said Lake Michigan,

didn't you? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you don't have a 12-month season, >> right? That is true.

>> Okay. So 1,500 is for just a short

period of time.

>> Although we do have a lot of folks that come in recreational for like fishing and and that sort of thing. >> Not 1,500 a week.

>> No, but you're right. You're right. It would be less than that. >> You're looking for the people who want to make an Instagram post out of this, not your your >> But that's just that you got a three-month season here. You don't have a you don't have a 12-month season. So, don't um it sounds like you're cherrypicking the numbers to make this sound more appealing than it is. I'm not sure it's a great investment, period.

Cuz a h 100red grand in with the rental you're going to get back out. And running an Airbnb is running a hotel.

It's a pain in the butt.

>> It's a lot of work.

>> You're changing dirty sheets and hauling off garbage. >> Someone is.

Yeah, we were thinking you could get property management, but you're >> But then then your 1,500 a month starts to evaporate >> and your Airbnb fees top.

>> Well, sorry. Per week.

>> Yeah, I'm sorry. 1,500 a week. But yeah, but but that's only for a short period of time. But so yeah, I I um I think you

need to run a realistic proforma on this instead of throwing the 1500 a week around and acting like that's a 12-month roll. It's not.

>> And uh when you do that, I don't know if you're going to see a great return on 100k. So, even if we didn't put it in

baby step four and we said, "Okay, baby step six, you start or seven, you fix you save up and fix this up as an investment property later on. You drop 100k in it. Are you going to get your money back out in cash flow?" I don't

know if you're you might you might it might it might work out for you. But, um, the thing I know about real estate is and I own a bunch of it is net is different than gross.

You have gross rents and everybody walks around talking about their gross rents, but you have property taxes, you have insurance, you have expenses, you have maintenance, you have vacancy, you have legal trouble, you have everything else that comes out of that and then you have net. And so the, you know, people walk

act like that, especially inexperienced real estate investors act like that they're the that, you know, it's it's 1,500 and it's not. It's not because

somebody's got to take out the garbage and clean the sheets and somebody's got to deal with the stuff and the heat and air is going to go out and then some bozo throws a beer bottle through the window and welcome to Airbnb and so uh

it's it's a thing man. So I no it's not

a baby step four. Joe's right. George is right. I don't know who Joe is but George is right. And >> my bizarro arch nemesis. And so, uh, yeah, the the, uh, now I would be putting baby step four, 15% into retirement in good growth stock mutual funds. That's what I'd be doing there.

This investment would be later on, um,

or with a different set of money than that. It is not investing for retirement. No, I would not do that. And I I I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying it doesn't qualify for that the way we teach. And I wouldn't do it until you've got some extra money later. Right now, you're just just above broke.

You're just now getting it past baby step three and now you're starting to move into investing and you're now you're talking start dropping 100 grand into a real estate deal. No, no, not right now. Not right now. Hope that helps. Hope I solved the argument. I think I came down on her side. I think the husband's not happy, but that's okay. We'll we'll live. >> You'll live to tell the tale. >> Yeah. Ben is in Phoenix. Hey, Ben. How are you? >> I'm great. How you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

So, I uh recently was going through uh

my house. Um I knew I had this, but I rediscovered um some gold coins that my dad has been buying for me for Christmas since I was a kid. Um and I did the math

and it's about $22,000 worth of gold coins >> um that I have. Yeah. So, um recently my fiance uh was laid off in August. So, um

you know, we lost a chunk of our income, but we're still living within our means.

Um, we're in pretty good shape all things considered still. Um, we do have our $1,000 emergency fund for baby step one. Um, and the only debt that both of us have is the house that I bought when I was 24 and our cars. Um, but I was

>> What do you owe on your car?

>> I owe about 20,000 bucks and she's at about 15,000 bucks. >> But you're not married. You're not paying off somebody's car you're not married to. >> Correct. Yes. >> So there's not a Wii. There's not a Wii.

You have a roommate. [laughter] >> Okay. >> You have $22,000 worth of gold and you need to put it on your stuff until you're married. When's the marriage?

>> Uh in October. And the wedding is going to be covered from both of our parents' savings for it. Fortunately, >> what what you say you owed on your car?

>> Uh about 20,000. >> Oh, perfect. Sell the gold and pay off your car.

>> Okay. I've been wondering. My dad is a little bit of a panicker and he says never sell it. And I've always been wondering, well then what's it for? I'm never supposed to >> Well, and never have a car payment either. And never go get another car payment after this.

>> Yeah. >> It's your last time ever.

>> Yeah. >> But here's a good way to think about it. If I gave you $22,000 right now, you wouldn't go buy gold with it, would you?

>> Well, when you put it like that, I didn't even call. >> That's the simplest way I can think about it. And I go, let's sell the gold and turn it into money. Now, what's the best use of this money is getting rid of our consumer debt. That's going to really free you up. >> Boom. Just like that. and you guys quit combining finances until October. You're

not married. It's very dangerous. Stop

it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, [music] and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

[music]

Heat.

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## 76. Get Your Finances In Order Now So You Can Enjoy Your Life Later | January 8, 2026


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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to tell you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair [music] Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsay

Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, number one [music] best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, Ramsay personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Phone number is 88825-55225.

Tracy's in Chicago. Hi, Tracy. How are you? >> Hi. Good. >> Good. What's up?

So, my husband and I had a few opportunities pop up that we never

thought would line up and happen that we were able to move closer to our family.

It was something we were really excited about. The hardest thing with it was we have a small business that we are in the process of selling. We have never lived

by credit card debt. With this business, it involved purchasing inventory with a credit card. And now with the selling of

this business, we know we're going to be left with that credit card bill, but not the income from the business. And so, we're kind of at a really nerve-wracking stuck point. >> Are you getting money for the business when you sell the business?

>> We are getting a small amount because of the distance we were moving. we had to sell it quicker. Um then we probably could have got a better price if the sale could have went longer.

>> Um so that money is absolutely being put towards this and then we are financing.

>> So what are the numbers? How much are you get how much are you getting for the business and then how much do you end up in credit card debt? >> So we have currently got 15 grand from

it >> and then we'll continue to get another 20 grand over the next three years. Mhm.

>> So, it'll be small payments coming in.

>> And how much how much credit card debt is it? >> So, we have 49,000 that we will have a

credit card debt.

>> Wow. So, this business was a real failure.

>> Yeah. We had just taken it over. So, we really didn't have time to start recouping the funds of the initial investment at all.

>> Wow.

All right. So you got So 35,000 left in credit card debt that you're going to have to clean up. >> Exactly. So what are you going to be making at the new location? What's your new careers?

>> So we will still have income coming in

for a few more months that we're hoping to really pour towards that because there is a truck loan with the business as well. So we're trying to figure out if it's best to sell the truck or

>> Yes. >> keep it within it since it's LLC.

>> No. Um, >> it's not an LLC. You signed personally for the truck.

You signed personally for the credit card debt. I don't care if it's running through an LLC. That's only in your mind. The bank ain't going to sue the LLC. They're going to sue you.

You are liable. No, you sell the truck

today. >> How much underwater are you guys on that, Tracy? Do you know?

So, from what I've looked at, the loan

is around 38K and then the cash offer

estimate would be about 30.

>> Oh, you're killing me. >> Okay. Well, it's 8 grand in the hole.

Yeah. All right. We got eight grand. Okay. So, >> this is the worst business deal I've heard in a while. >> Well, it's not like 380,000. It's like

>> So, okay. One more time then. What are you guys going to be doing for a living at the new location?

>> So, we both have different careers. We will be bringing in about eight grand a month. We do have everything budgeted, so we would have about two to three grand a month to play with out of our budget. >> Okay. >> Well, then it's kind of it's kind of irrelevant to pay this off.

>> It's kind of irrelevant how we got here.

You have an $8,000 hole that you're going to have to finance on the truck cuz you're selling the truck and you

have $35,000 in credit card debt. And

you make $8,000 a month and $2,000 a month to go towards debt on your debt snowball. How much other debt do you all have?

>> Only our house. >> Oh, good. Are you selling it when you move?

>> So, we already sold and bought a new house. So, right now it's just the one house. Okay. All right. Good. All right.

Yeah. So, I mean, you you you know, we have $43,000 in debt and we make $100,000 a year and let's pay it off and

that's you know, just run the debt snowball on it. Is there something wrong with that? >> Are there any good tactics for negotiating with the credit cards to get like a lump sum payoff because we will most likely still have another 52,000 coming in from the operation of the business. Well, that'll be that'll be nice if it does come in

>> um to recoup the fact that you had to take this money out of your cash flow in the meantime because you're not going to wait around on that money to come.

>> You're going to go ahead and clear this debt now. >> No, there's not a tactic. The only way that people don't the only people on the only way people accept less on the debt

that is owed is if they don't think it's going to be paid. And the reason they don't think it's going to be paid is if you're not paying it on time. And so if you want to not pay your payments for 6 months, >> yeah, you probably could negotiate with them, but I don't recommend that you have the money to pay your bill. You should just pay your bill.

>> Okay. >> Okay.

Thanks for the call. >> Open phones at 8. No, I mean, no, this is just [laughter] spicy. The first call of the show, Dave. >> Well, it's okay. >> People make Listen, that is life.

Everyone in the audience is like, "Yeah, Dave." Yeah. [gasps] >> Listen, that's life though, people. That is a situation that happens.

>> Let me recoup then. >> For a lot for a lot of people. >> Just comb back through it for a minute. >> It could have been $38,000 in a car that we get. You know, we get that call. >> We get that call all the time. Here's the thing, okay? When you operate a

business, it's supposed to make money.

>> Otherwise, it's what called a hobby.

Okay? And you don't buy a business that

small and borrow $38,000 for a pickup.

You used your business purchase as an excuse to buy a truck you wanted. That's what happened. And now it bit you in the butt and you ran up a bunch of credit

card debt because you weren't running the business well and it was losing money. You don't get to just go, "Oh, it's inconvenient for me to pay that now% >> when I have the money." You pay your bill. Oh, I totally agree with that. But >> sorry if I'm chippy on it, but [laughter] that's just them.

But they had they had the opportunity to move close to family and so that that decision is what caused them to sell the business, right? They >> Well, let me just say what happened. They they went way too fast on the whole thing. >> I agree.

That's a great lesson.

>> On both things, the purchase of the business and the move to family. If they have slowed down, sold the business for more money. >> Yep. >> They could have limited the damage they did when they didn't slow down and buy the business carefully. Mhm.

>> And but now it's just like we did this bing and we just do we just go we just go do stuff and that that's the kind of stuff that'll bite your freaking wallet in half >> is you just start um jumping around on

stuff and it it's slow down.

>> Well, and it's the urgency. It's what we talk about even with um sorry this sort

of analogy but people that like invest in real estate for instance and they have so it's what happened to you. You have so much and then you get in trouble and you're and then you end up selling for less. the urgency on anything, right? You could real estate business.

>> I've often said this about me and I'll say it about others as well is right after I get desperate, I get stupid.

>> Yeah. >> And that's what you're talking about. >> Yep. >> And so once you paint yourself in the corner and you realize you're going to get paint on your feet, >> then you get silly and you start ice skating in the paint. I mean, it's nuts.

>> Yep. Yep.

Heat. Heat.

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>> Well, we know there's a lot of chaos and noise out there making you feel like you can't get ahead with money. There's a lot of negative, hopeless messages out there. But you have more control than you think you do. And this year, it's time to take back your money.

starting with our free every dollar live stream tomorrow night, Thursday night.

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everydoll.comlivestream tomorrow night, Thursday night, for those of you uh out there depending on when you're picking this up, right? And we'd love to have you. It's completely free. everydoll.com/livestream.

And Rachel, we got about 2500 people going to be on campus in the Ramsey Event Center. It is completely sold out.

And uh you guys, you the rest of you, John and you and uh George and uh Ken

and whoever are all going to be answering questions for the live audience before we go to the live stream. >> That's right. Yep. We will not be on the live stream, but we will be hanging out with everybody that's here in person, which will be so fun.

And yeah, these events are always great. It's always a great way to kick off the new year, especially with people with their money goals and everything they have that they're looking forward to. So, yeah, it'll be fun.

Deloney and Rachel and Ken and George.

And then Jade and I will be doing the actual live stream uh in the in the second portion of it. So, uh wherever

you are, make sure you join us. It's going to be an incredible event and I promise you will leave with some actionable, doable things and some real hope in the middle of all the hopeless messages that are out there. John is in

Chicago. Hi, John. How are you?

>> Good, guys. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, just wondering if you guys be able to give me some clarity here. Another parent plus loan question for you. Um, back when I was 18, both my parents took

out a parent plus loan uh for me to go

to school. And during this whole time,

my dad just kept on saying, you know, hey, don't worry about this loan. Don't worry about this loan. They even brought up, you know, staying home, but he wanted me to get the full college experience like at the dorms.

And, uh, you know, fast forward to now.

Um, my mom, my dad's no longer with us.

Um, my mom is now expecting me to pay

everything back in full when I've kind of organized my life to where I I would not have to do that. I have been paying this loan >> for a while now and um now I

>> because I felt obligated.

>> Um, kind of guilty. >> Why kind of guilty? >> I thought you weren't obligated.

>> That's the thing. They needed some help.

They came into some financial issues. My dad got sick and couldn't work anymore and eventually eventually that that illness took his life. But um >> I'm sorry.

>> Okay. So, what do you make, John?

>> Um I make uh my household income cuz I'm married is uh 221.

>> Mhm. And what is the parent plus loan?

>> What's the balance on >> right now? It's at uh 104,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> Wow. It's no minor puppy.

>> Yeah. >> No. No. Well, does your mom have the

money?

>> Um, that's the thing, Dave. Uh, my dad

had a really big life insurance thing.

Uh, probably I think it was like 200 or 250. >> Mhm. >> And, um, you know, I brought this up how both both of them promised like to take care of this. My mom has got amnesia about it now, but she decided to spend

all that um paid for my sister's

wedding. um redid her entire house, paid

off her car, did all these things and

still expecting me to do all this. So I don't >> So how does she if she's used all that money, how is she surviving?

>> Well, she has her own job. She's working. >> What does she mean? >> She does work.

>> Last time I knew it was about 120 and

that was probably five five or so years ago. I know last year at the beginning of last year she uh she got really sick.

She we we we did almost lose her to uh acute kidney failure, but >> John, how old are you?

>> I'm 34. >> How old is she?

>> She is almost 60.

>> It's like Sounds like you all are disconnected >> in 12 years, right? Did you graduate 22?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Or 20. >> Yeah. >> 21.

>> So, this has been I was going to say this has been over a decade, right, of you of you paying it. Um, and how often

do you guys talk? Like when's the last time you brought this up to her?

>> The last time I brought this up, um, it was actually a three-way call because it turns out I was actually she consolidated this whole thing and I was actually paying my sister's student loans as well. >> Oh my gosh. >> And I didn't even dive into that until my wife, you know, bless her heart, she kept pushing me like, "No, look at this.

Look at this." And >> I was paying that. And I was like, "Hey, you guys need to pay this." I ended up paying almost two grand worth of her student loans and you know all this has

been combined together. Now >> is the 104 in include your sisters?

>> No, that's just mine.

>> Yeah, it's she asking your sister to pay hers.

>> Uh she did, but my sister just isn't paying it. And she's also living there at my mom with her husband.

Uh both of um my sister's husband that is my brother-in-law. Yeah, there's a lot of you have a lot of feelings about you're not real happy with your mom in general >> aside from this.

>> I mean, you made several derogatory statements aside from this issue.

>> Yeah. And I mean, it is I've talked about these things with her to try to get like through it, but it always is just like, well, you're the one who's the man. You have to be responsible. I mean, she even one point said, well, she's your sister and your only sister.

You should just take care of that. And it's I don't know. It just I kind of been a dormat. I'll be honest with it because I just uh >> Yeah. And I think you're I think you're kind of over that. Well, I guess you got I guess you got two choices, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> And let's just kind of talk through what happens with either one. Okay. One is you don't pay it.

>> Say, "Mom, you know, you and dad promised to pay it and you make enough money to pay this and you know, um

sister's not paying hers. I'm not paying mine and you guys promised to pay it. I know you forgot about it, but you did.

And um I'm sorry, but that's what we're

going to do, and I'm not paying it anymore. That's one option, right?

>> Yeah. >> And the other option is shut up and pay it.

>> Then that's not really an option for me because my, you know, my wife, we're we just went through the u uh financial piece and we we've paid off over like

120 grand worth of our own debt. Then you then you know what's gonna happen when you stop when you cut this off, right?

>> Yeah. I'm gonna I feel like I have a choice between my mom and my wife and I got to choose my wife. That's how it feels. >> Well, no, that's not true. That's not fair of your wife. Your wife should be participating in this decision. She's made her voice clear that she doesn't think this is right. I agree with her it's not right. You agree with her it's not right. But now you've got to decide because a 100% chance when you do this, it ends your relationship with your mother and your sister.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I don't want my

four kids to not, >> you know, have their grandma.

>> That's up to their That's up to their grandma. That's not up to you.

>> Okay. >> You know. >> Okay. >> Mom, you're more than welcome here. I'm not angry with you. We'd love to have you for Thanksgiving. Love to have you see the kids. love to have a relationship with you, but I'm not going to be paying this. My wife and I are not

okay with the fact that the money was wasted on one side. You paid everybody's stuff except this after you and dad promised to pay this and you make enough money to pay it. >> Now, I got to tell you, if she was a starving widow or something >> and you But that's not what you've outlined here, okay? Then I I I might change my tune if I were you and I might talk to your wife about that.

>> And I don't like the unhealthy unbalance of putting everything on him, especially his sister.

>> Yeah. Your mom Your mom's definitely out of control. There's no question about that. But that's not fair. >> When you set a boundary with boundaryless people, 100% of the time they go cray cray.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Tiffany is in St. Louis. Hi, Tiffany.

How are you? >> Good. [music] How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so my husband and I recently split

and I filed for divorce. Oh, sorry.

>> Um, he was having an affair.

>> Um, so we have a bunch of debt and he's

currently not helping me. He was fired from his job and I lived on I live on a

very small income and I need to know how to navigate that debt.

>> What was he making at his old job?

>> 60. >> And why was he fired?

Um, he won't tell me the truth, but I think he was um on his phone and driving a truck. >> Oh, okay. All right. And um Yeah, cuz he

doesn't tell the truth a lot. That's Yeah, it's kind of a >> That's accurate. >> Yeah. Okay. And what do you make?

>> 24. >> Okay. All right. And how much debt do you all have?

>> 20,000 >> on what?

Um, car, credit cards. Um,

that's about it. >> How much on the car?

>> 10,000. >> What's the car worth?

>> Probably close to 10.

>> Okay. You're driving it or >> Yeah. Whose car is it?

>> He took the car. >> Good. Okay.

>> Is it solely in his name, Tiffany, or No. Okay. Yeah. No, both are on it.

>> Okay. All right. Um, so there's 10 grand

in credit card debt. Really? Because Okay. So, you filed for divorce. That means you've actually seen an attorney, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And um so, first and foremost,

let's step back from the $20,000 in debt and say, okay, Tiffany is probably going

to get a whole different career to have a whole different life.

>> Okay. >> Because Tiffany can't do well in St.

Louis, Missouri on $24,000. Agreed.

>> Agreed. >> Okay. So, what do you do?

>> Um, I right now I work at a retail store. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 51. >> Okay. So, what are you planning to do?

What's your new life going to be? Your new career? Because I'm so excited for this new life for you.

>> Uh, I don't know.

>> I've always wanted to be a nurse, but I'm 51 [clears throat] and going back to school would be crazy.

>> No, wouldn't be crazy at all. Wouldn't be crazy at all. A matter of fact, nurse is a great great idea.

>> Okay, so I want you to begin to think about those things. And then what that does is it says, okay, let's pretend we're five years from today and you're making $85,000 a year as a nurse,

>> right? >> I like that plan.

>> Yes. >> Now then, how much does this $10,000 car or this $10,000 credit card matter? It doesn't matter much, >> right? >> Okay. So what I'm trying to do is to take away the stress of it cuz right now on all the other things including your broken heart heaped on top of that is this the immediacy of this that's causing the stress. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So >> how much is the bill each month >> for the credit card? >> On the credit cards.

>> Okay. So let's redo the credit card. The credit cards are 20. I'm sorry.

>> The car is 10. Oh, I misunderstood.

Okay. >> I No, I did it wrong. I mis I misspoke.

>> Oh, okay. >> So, but and he's supposed to give me half, which he's not because he's currently whatever money he gets is giving to somebody else.

>> Mhm. >> So, a total of I believe I pay 600 a month for everything. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. So, here's the first thing.

The first thing you do is you call your lawyer and you have him get her or him

get in touch with the other lawyer and say, "We're going to smack this guy. He

needs to start paying his half. If not, we're going to drag his butt before the judge and the judge is going to start immediately because when this settles, at most you get half of the debt,

>> right? >> Okay. And what I would recommend is you get let him take the you take the car and sell it, >> right? And then that gets rid of a bunch of your half of the debt, then you would only have $5,000 in credit card debt and he would be responsible for $10,000, >> right?

>> If you split this down the middle and he took 15,000 of credit card and you took five of credit card in the car and sold the car, that's what would happen. I like that plan. >> Will there be anything in the divorce, Tiffany? >> No, there's no money.

>> No. 401k.

>> Oh, he does. How much is in his 401k?

>> He has 60. 60. Oh, good. But

>> well, 30 of that 30 of that's yours.

Okay. >> Well, it that's true, but I believe at this point he is trying to cash it out.

>> Ah, well, I mean, let's have the judge stop this young man. This is illegal.

>> I did I called my attorney and I said, I think he's trying to cash it out and so I'm waiting to hear back from him.

>> Yeah. And he's and he's not paying these bills. And so, >> you know, here's the thing. Your husband thinks he can just walk around and do these things, but the judge is going to teach him how this really works, >> right? >> Okay. So, long-term, I mean, long-term being six months from now, this will all the wrinkles will be ironed out of this as a part of the divorce. Now, you're going to end up with some debt, but you're going to need more money to live

now and in the future to become a nurse,

>> right? >> So, you really got to start working on your career. I would say 60% of my answer to your question is let's get you making more money >> now and in the future. >> Do you have kids, Tiffany, at home?

>> No. No, they're grown. Okay.

>> They they are here though living with me, but they help. >> Okay. So, >> they're not a they're not a problem. They're an addition. >> No. No. No. >> Okay. Good. Good. All right. Yeah. And so you and you guys don't own a home?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Good. All right. Yeah.

I think you get on your attorney and you start figuring out what Tiffany's going to be in this next chapter >> and the short term. What can I do to increase my income substantially while I

pursue the idea of what it's going to take for me to become a nurse long term, >> right? >> Okay. But yeah, you can't just keep working at 24K and this will work out.

Okay. If you had no debt, you'd still be

in a problem, >> right? >> Okay. That's what I'm that's what my point is. So, yeah. And this is not a pile of debt. You can actually get through this. But I I would just not pay any of it right now. If he's not paying it, don't pay it. It's not the end of the world. They're not going to do anything. What are they going to do? Yell? Well, we got plenty of yelling going on in this story. He has it.

>> Yeah. Let Let them pick up the car. I mean, let Junior figure out how he's going to walk to nothing. [laughter] Walk to see his girlfriend or whatever.

Right. So, I mean, it's like um >> Yeah. I I wouldn't pay a dime on any of this until you [clears throat] get the attorney straightened out and as a part of the mediation process.

>> Y I would >> take the receipts of what you have and let that go against what you owe too.

>> Yeah. But I don't think it it doesn't serve any purpose right now. You don't have enough money to pay all these bills or a good a portion of these bills even and live.

>> Mhm. >> So [clears throat] I want you to live first. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. If you have some money left over, we can talk about you paying some of it after you clear that with your attorney, but just trying to carry it because he won't.

Nah, don't think so. I'm going to let this come down on his head, too. And just let the let the weight build up on the whole thing. I think it'll be good for both of you. H I'm sorry. Sorry you're going through this. What a nasty situation.

Frank's in Houston. Hey, Frank. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up?

Well, um, my wife and I had a question

for you. Uh, because we've been working off on paying off our debt and, um,

currently, um, our mortgage is at 32 thou, a little

over $32,000.

>> Mhm. >> I do have a little credit card debt. I have a personal debt of 6,000 and a for

my business, >> it's about 1,400. So, I try to keep it as low as I can. >> Mhm. >> And I had a really amazing um year last year and I'm so grateful that we've gotten to this point whether we can ask this question whether I should just pay

everything off. Um >> why wouldn't you? >> With my emergency fund >> and everything, I have about $87,000

in liquid cash. >> Okay. So, if you wrote a check today, you'd have 50 60 or you you'd have 40 something,000, right?

>> Yes. >> Why wouldn't you do that? >> And I'd be done. >> Of course you do that. >> I was going to wait till my birthday. I thought that [laughter] would be a good >> Well, just it's called an early birthday party. >> Happy birthday, Frank. >> You are too [laughter] You are too old to wait till your birthday. You need to do it now and say

happy birthday. Just wrap wrap up all the receipts and open them again at your birthday and go, "Whoopee." >> That is so funny. >> Let's walk out in the backyard. >> Go buy Go buy a nice dinner on your birthday, right? >> Go in the backyard and burn your mortgage on your [laughter] birthday.

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[music]

You know, Dave, [music] we hear uh a lot of success stories. We get we get a lot of, you know, problem calls on the show.

That's why we're here to help if you know, people have a problem, but we'll also get success stories. And I feel like in the lobby, we always get fun tidbits of people who are like, "Hey, we're on baby step seven or we just paid off our house in October." You know, you get these like little like tidbits of success. We we go out at the commercial breaks and take pictures and talk to people. That's what she said.

>> Yes. And we just had one a sweet kind young lady was talking about that she was going to go to film school and take out all these loans and then kind of binge some of our stuff and >> her teacher. >> Yes. >> Said don't here's the teacher is the hero in the story.

>> Yes. And said hey yeah let there's a different way. And she said >> watch these Dave Ramsey things. And so she said, you know, three weeks before I decided not to go and I want to be a financial adviser and I totally changed the course and it was just we were just talking in the break after we met her and we it's just like it's one of those decisions in life that everyone gets to make, you know, we all whether you're on the car >> minutes away.

>> Yeah. From like doing something different >> from a decade long problem. And her teacher, >> Way to go teacher, hello. Don't you know teachers change people's lives?

>> That's right. Y >> um said don't do that. Go watch these go watch these videos. And then she went down the rabbit hole on the Ramsay videos because there's like 80 million of them out there.

Okay. And so you you if you go down that hole, you may never get out, Alice. I'm just saying that Chester Cat is in there. Okay.

>> It's there. >> Yeah. But whether you're standing on a car lot about to sign up for loan, you know, whatever it is, you get you get a you get a moment in your life you're like, what which road am I going to take? And uh and I love hearing those those stories.

So >> well, beautiful. >> You know, and and I you know, one more time we get to say salute to teachers, >> right?

little conversation like that >> took a decade off that girl's life. I mean, it's pretty incredible. >> Yep. Awesome. Awesome. >> Good stuff. Good stuff. All right. Derek is in Tampa. Hi, Derek. How are you?

>> Uh, living and giving like no one else.

>> Love it, brother. >> Call, guys. >> Love it. How can we help? >> My wife and I are My wife and I are baby steps millionaires. Um, we are invested

in the four mutual funds. Growth, growth, and income, aggressive growth, and international. Huh?

>> And every year on December 29th, I rebalance those investments so that they're even to start the new year off.

>> Okay. >> Am I doing that right?

>> There's nothing wrong with that.

>> Should I do it more often?

>> No, I think I think once a year is more than enough. Um, you're you know, you're you're a detailed dude for sure. Um, and

u but it doesn't harm anything. Um, I

don't rebalance mine unless I look up and they're way out of balance.

>> Like if I looked up and saw, you know, 70% was in one thing or something,

>> then I would go, "Whoa, that's a little heavy over there. I need to reset that." >> But 27% down to 25%. No, I don't I don't

do that. I don't I don't fool with that.

I just don't want f But I'm not as I'm not as detailed a person as you are. I'm more big picture person. >> I'm I'm a data engineer. So yes, I am.

>> Yeah. [laughter] And so it gives you peace to do that.

>> It would cause me an ulcer to have >> the numbers. I can see Yeah. And I can see the numbers move the next year and it's kind of more exciting for me that >> that's kind of fun. Yeah. I like that part from a math nerd. I like that part.

I like saying, "Oh, look at that. And now it's out of balance again. Isn't this working?" >> A consistent trend, Eric, because you're deep in it. I mean, like the fact that you've been looking at it every year.

Do you see the do you see certain ones imbalance over you know different ones each year? >> I let me give a let me give a guess for you answer. >> International >> the international has come up short for the last eight years >> and it just started taking off and the small cap is kind of Yes. Uh what you're saying is correct.

Yep. It's it wanted Yeah. I see them have been tied together. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> So interesting. >> Very good.

Very good. Okay.

years. About five or six years ago, I went in I went down the rabbit hole with our uh smart vester pro who's a friend of mine and he and I are math riddle nuts. And so we pulled up a whole bunch of hypotheticals of what if you went 20 years because the international has underperformed the other four categories substantially over a long period of time. >> It's the worst of the four. Okay. And you've you've experienced that. That's why it was easy to guess. And so, um,

but but I and I was thinking about just pulling it out, but what we figured out was that it's offsetting because it runs at the inverse of some of the others.

And so when we ran the hypotheticals without it, we didn't make as much money, which was weird because the stupid thing's underperforming, but it kind of was almost like a math riddle, like I said. But anyway, we ended up leaving it in because the hypotheticals that we ran out ran it out two or three different ways over two or three different age groups and so forth and it just didn't make it made more sense to leave it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Agreed. >> Very cool, man. How old are you?

>> Uh 53 and my wife's 52.

>> Yeah. And what's your net worth?

Uh 1.3. Give me a second. 1.3 in our

retirement and our h I got a tricky answer for you there. Our house is worth about six, but we just uh we're almost done with an addition that uh 150 grand we're paying for in cash.

>> Okay. All right. And so you got about you got about $2 million net worth at 52. Did you inherit any money?

>> No. All >> right. Way to go, guy. Way to go, man.

>> Thank you. >> What do you tell people that how did you do that? What was the trick? Did you make a pile of money or did are you just smart or what? How'd you do it?

>> Uh we don't go into debt. We are People think we're crazy, but we do not go into debt. We've been we moved from a threebedroom house to a two-bedroom house and been here eight years saving to do this and people think we're crazy, but we don't go into debt and we we see

the benefits from it tremendously.

>> Yeah. And what's your household income?

>> Uh my wife retired uh 130.

>> Okay. She was a She was a special needs teacher >> and she retired at 50. >> She's doing >> she retired 48. She's doing some side jobs just to kind of >> because you don't have to work if you got $2 million. Yeah, I got it. Okay.

>> Proud of you, man. >> Well done, Derek. >> Way to go, Derek. >> Thank you, guys. >> Thanks for letting us interview you, too. [laughter] Wow. Very cool. So, if you don't know what rebalancing is, guys, we teach people to put a fourth of your income in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in international, which we were talking about was being the the one that was sucking wind, and a fourth in aggressive growth when you're doing your 401k. If

one of them grows substantially more than another during the year, in his

case he does it once a year. Um, sometimes people reset it to a fourth at

the end of the year. So you might get to the end of the year and one of them has 32%. And one of them has 18%. You know,

because one of them didn't grow much and the other one took off, right? And so what he's doing is he's smoothing it out each year and going back to 25%, moving them around inside the 401k. Doesn't cost anything to do it. um and then it restarts and then his contributions are still at a fourth and then he gets to look at it again at the end of the year because he's a great he's a data guy and he likes watching it happen >> and so forth and you know that that's a cool thing.

each. Uh because that's our portfolio mix that sh that Rachel and I use both.

My Rachel and Winston, Dave and Sharon, it's what we've suggested here for 30 years. It's what all of my retirement is set up on. But mine is not sitting at 2525 cuz I don't rebalance as often as he does. Again, I don't because I'm just not that into the details. I don't care.

It's just a big old pile of money. That's all I'm worried about, right? And so I'm that guy. But the uh but it's kind of cool that he's doing that and especially if you like all the nerdy math stuff which I actually do.

So I probably would enjoy doing it right >> because I enjoy that part of it. >> I like to see the trends and the patterns you know we're talking about over time over a decade and seeing okay which ones are continuing to not perform as much >> um or as well as others. So >> yeah. So that that's what we teach folks to do.

mutual fund has uh 90 to 200 stocks in

it. So if you've got a growth fund that has 90 to 200, a growth in income that has 90 to 200, an international that has 90 to 200, and uh an aggressive growth

that has 90 to 200. So you've then got somewhere between 4 and 800 stocks

roughly except for the overlap that that you're invested across. And that's a lot of safety because the chances of all of those as a group going down over an extended period of time is really close to zero.

Okay, that's called diversification.

When you spread it around, it's diversification. It's a big financial word. Sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher. Okay, but all that means is spread your money around. Money is like manure. It's better if it's spread. It grows things. Okay? And so spread it around. Don't put it all in one thing.

When you put it all in one thing, you increase your risk. And so if you buy Apple stock with a million dollars or you put it in 800 different stocks with a million [music] dollars, the safety factor is way different. Even though Apple is pretty stinking cool and incredible [music] and stable, but still your risk level is way up when you're in one or two stocks.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Stacy's with us in Baton Rouge. Hi, Stacy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing great. Um, first time caller, but I'm a second generation Ramsay family and I'm so thankful that you took my call. >> Well, thank you. A financial peace, baby.

All right. How can we help?

>> I'll never forget cutting my parents' credit cards at 8 years old. So, >> there you go. What a memory. [laughter]

That's awesome. How can we help?

>> Well, um we uh are doing pretty well.

We're in our 30s and we made the decision whenever I got pregnant with my third baby to put my career on hold and

be a full-time mom and kind of take care of our little side hustles and >> do that whole thing, which has been really incredible. We've done that for about a year. >> Neat. >> But before I did that, >> I was volunteering and providing services for our local parish. And since I've done that, >> that has picked up significantly.

So, I'm just curious, and I can go into more detail, but should I be tithing

less because I'm giving more in other ways?

>> Um, the the overall answer is it doesn't

matter because giving is giving. And

there's there's not a an angry God

standing up there with a calculator that's saying, "I can't bless you because you missed this by $4." Okay? So

okay, >> this is the the the whole point of the tithe is to create a giving heart and a

rhythm of giving in your life,

>> not to create a burdensome rule.

>> Okay, >> that's the whole point. Okay, so once we've said that then the answer could be whatever you want to do, right? The technical the technical mathematical answer is no

because the tithe is based on a scripture in Deuteronomy and a scripture in Malachi and a scripture in two or three other places. Uh and then it's reinforced by Jesus in the New Testament for those of us that are evangelical Christians. And you said parish. So you're probably Catholic, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And so, you know, that you're reading through the scriptures and saying, "Okay, what's God's love letter to me? My dad's love letter saying that I is a good way for me to live. My heavenly father's crazy about me. He wants me to win. He wants to turn me into a generous person." Okay? And so, that's the overarching thing we want to do. Now, having said that, then the technical nitsy thing that I would go on because I'm a math nerd, not a Pharisee, okay? is just that

the tithe says to tithe on your net

increase, which would be the money that you make.

So, if you run a business, your profits,

not your gross.

Okay? If you're u if you're a wage

earner, it would be your wages. And you can argue about whether net increases before or after taxes. There's lots of good teachings on either side of that. I tithe before taxes just so when I get to

heaven if I'm wrong I'm on the good side. Right. So I mean it's [laughter] that it's that kind of but it's just funny to me. It's not I'm not I'm not I I always give more than a tithe anyway

financially. Okay. And I don't reduce it

by the amount of volunteer hours. You

know I'm I'm going to charge God $20 an hour for this volunteer out of my tithe.

You know I don't I don't do that. Um,

and it's okay if you do, but um, but I I

instead what I would do is just say, "Hey, I'm putting a lot over here, and so I'm going to put a little less over here, and God's not mad about this. He's

just trying to teach us, he's trying to teach us to be generous children."

So originally whenever I started So [clears throat] first of all I love your take because I do think that by doing what I've been doing the service I'm providing I'm attending church more because it's an in mass service.

>> Um so I'm closer literally and figuratively to God than I've ever >> and you're getting more out of it than you're giving. Yeah, >> certainly. And um they originally

offered to pay me. They pay the other people who do this um and I just said no because I had a job. Well, so do I.

>> It's up to you. Now get paid.

>> It's up to you. It It doesn't matter.

Okay. You You can whatever you want to do. You can't outgive God. So if you want to give more money or you want to give more time or both, it's okay. You

know, it's >> and don't feel guilty if you decide, hey, this is kind of turning into a part-time job. And so, yeah, if if everyone around me in the same position gets paid and they've offered it and I take a paycheck from them, that's great.

>> Or if I don't take a paycheck and I reduce my tithe by that much since I'm been offered a paycheck, that's a whole another >> wrinkle in the discussion. You could you can add that, but there's just no you can tell tell there's no guilt trip on our end. Okay. >> Yeah.

I would just trust the spirit, Stacy. Honestly, I know that's such a fickle answer sometimes, but like what what what does your gut say? Like what inside feels right? And I think that there's a level of that that's okay.

the Holy Spirit talking to you. If you think God's telling you to do it, for sure do it. Don't do what Dave said. >> Yeah.

If you feel kind of convicted one way or the other, you know, you may have a different story than someone else in your exact situation over here because they are leading somewhere else of how they're feeling, right? So, I don't know there. Yeah, it's not a it's not a legalistic thing by any means, but I think whatever makes you whatever feels right to you. And again, I think it's the selflessness versus the selfishness is one of the gifts in giving.

And so there is something about that selflessness that's beautiful and however >> that happens and that happens when you're giving your time or your money. >> Yes. All of it. So the giving and the serving um you're creating that in you already.

>> Yeah. I think you're a neat lady. Very cool.

>> Oh, >> very good stuff. >> I think you're pretty neat, too. >> Well, very [laughter] good stuff. Very good stuff. There's just no way you can mess up generosity. Okay. So I, you

know, we use tithing as a baseline and then certainly for many many years have gone way beyond the time.

>> And that's baby step seven. Live and give like no one else. So once you're there and there's um >> and as you're already finding the most fun you're ever going to have with money is giving.

>> Yeah, absolutely. And my husband is an engineer and he's kind of sickle and I think maybe that's why I like to get the >> He wanted a rule. >> He wants a formula. >> He wants a formula. His his rule was

that we do the math, of course, and take

what they would be paying us, withdraw that, carry the one, >> and [laughter] you know, that's how much we're going to give because we're giving less regardless because we're making less, right? I'm not working. >> Well, you're only giving on on your income. Yeah. You only give on your income, right? >> And then he could just multiply his flow formula times two and he'd be okay.

[laughter]

>> It's all right. It doesn't matter.

That's the point. And so, but the technical answer is the tithe.

Evangelicals particularly teach Stacy.

Uh, >> and depending on which parish I land in, which priest I'm talking to, I don't know which >> Well, tithe is tenth. You can't you can't >> I know, but but Catholic I mean like% our friend Pat Lion is a raving Catholic. He's one of my favorites. And um he says, "I'm an evangelical Catholic." So, um which you know what he means is he believes the Bible. Okay, that's what he means. And so, uh, uh, we love Pat. And so, it's a wonderful,

we've had great discussions around these kinds of things in those settings.

>> Yeah. And the whole point of it is taking care of your local church, taking and hopefully they are the ones taking care of the city, the town you are. It's the widows and the orphans. >> It is.

It's an extension. And the priests, which is the pastors or literally the priests. Yeah. But the uh you know the pastor, make sure your pastors are being taken care of and the widows and the orphans, the single moms are being taken care of in your [music] church.

And you ought to be tithing in your local church.

[music]

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[sighs and gasps] Jolene is with us in Toronto. Hi Jolene, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

>> Okay, so I am single. I have no dependence, no heirs. I'm completely debtree and by October 2028, I will have

owned my home outright. I've spent my

entire adult life intentionally saving and working to be 100% debtree. I am a

planner, so I think about when I want to downsize and I'm pretty much stuck between two options. I could buy a condo

with cash and struggle I'm struggling

with HOA fees which could equate to 18

to 30,000 a year and likely rising or I

could rent and knowingly deplete my savings over time. So, since I don't have anyone to leave money to and I plan to spend my money during my lifetime, how do I think about the choice between owning a condo with a really high HOA fee versus renting and spending down my

assets?

>> H, very interesting.

Okay. Um, >> high HOA fee. >> Yeah. Why is it mandatory that the condo

have a high HOA fee? Why are we stuck

with that as the only option?

>> It's not the only option.

>> Why don't we get a condo that doesn't have a higheration?

>> I'm sorry.

>> I think about when preservation no longer matters. How do I optimize?

>> Yeah, I understand. But I'm just saying um anytime I have two options and neither one of them are fun, it means I don't have enough options is what I mean. Yeah. And so that's why I ask about why don't we find a condo with a low HOA fee? Uh because HOA fees if

assume let's assume for a second it's not always true. It's not true often enough that the HO is managed accurately, then the HOA fee should be covering actual costs of operating the

condo, which would be roof replacement,

uh, parking lot management, uh, you

know, uh, maintenance issues, uh, taxes,

insurance on the exterior shells. You carry your own insurance on the interior shells I assume in Canada like we do in the states and so on.

>> The taxes would be additional. Taxes are additional addition, you know.

[clears throat] So the only way an HOA fee would skyrocket is mismanagement or

maintenance skyrocketed or one of the costs associated with operating the condo skyrocketed. Right.

>> Right. So here's the thing. If you rented a condo in that exact same thing and the HOA fee was accurate, your rent would cover the HOA fee. So, you're paying the HOA fee either way.

>> Correct.

I guess the question comes down to philosophically, would I own outright if I could pay for it outright or do I revert back to renting?

>> Yes, I would own outright. And the reason is this. You're stabilizing the largest line item in your budget into old age.

Because rent, >> but then my largest asset is trapped into a home. >> Yeah. So what? You're living in it.

>> I die with I die with all my assets trapped into a home instead of depleting my savings. >> You want to You want to You want to rent and travel and spend it all?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I don't There's There's not a >> I have no errors. >> It's not evil to do that. Uh the problem is you don't sound that old. How old are you?

49. >> Yeah. I didn't think you were that old. Okay. So, I mean, we're talking about a 40year plan. We're talking about a 40-year plan here. You know how much rent's going to go up in 40 years?

>> Yeah. >> That scares the crap out of me. >> It's the unknown. I think that is a little nerve-wracking for your home, right? I think for your shelter, for your place of protection and where you're going to be, you know what I mean? Like there's something about having no risk in that that gives peace

that if you want to go travel and do other things, uh it may not be as big and luxurious because to your point, a lot of your money's tied up in the home, but but at least there's like but at least there's the stability of knowing

that if you, you know, get hurt, something happens to you >> that your place is paid for. Do you know what I mean? Your home. >> What the condo cost?

>> If I were to downsize, I would pay it for a cash. So it would basically be the cost of my home. >> What would be what be equal to? How much money would the condo cost?

>> 600 to 800,000.

>> And how much do you have in your nest egg total?

>> I have 850 in investments locked. I have my home which is about 800. Okay.

>> And I have liquid of about 400. So my total net is around 2 million.

>> Okay. Well, what I would do is buy the condo for cash and ride that for 20 years and then remake this decision.

>> It's a good idea.

If you run out of your money and you're like, >> you're not going to run out of money [laughter] in 20 years >> cuz you're not even going to spend your income that this is creating.

I don't you just talking to you, you're you're not going to spend $200,000 a year on on travel. >> She might. >> Are you? >> Jolene sounds fun. >> No, I haven't traveled. No, I haven't. I mean, what are you going to spend $200,000? >> What are you going to do to consume $200,000 a year cuz you've never done that in your life?

>> That's I think that's the philosophical question of at what point do I stop saving and start living >> now? >> How much do you make now, Jolene?

>> I make between two and 300 a year.

>> And how how are you going to retire anytime soon or are you just going to >> I I'm so concerned about not having revenue that I don't want to retire.

>> I I'm trying to calculate >> I I would read >> I'm trying to calculate what my house Yeah. >> I So I would I would buy a $600,000 condo. I would pay cash for it and you'll be sitting on a million to a million half dollars making 300k. You can do anything you want for the next 20 years and you can work as much of that or as little of that as you want.

You can slow down a little bit and go travel or go whatever it is.

the nest egg, without consuming it.

>> The goose is going to lay without touching the goose. The goose is going to lay 150,000 nest eggs. Okay? And so,

>> so I should stop saving when my 850 investment becomes 1.2 or something,

>> whatever. You just run your number out, whatever you want it to be. But the po the point is that you're going to have a hard time consuming all of this money even if you

pay cash for a condo because the money's going to be making money almost as fast as you're spending it.

>> So that said, doesn't it do we care if it's 30,000 a year in HOA fees or rent?

Then do I need to own? Yes, I would own because it stabilizes cuz rent goes up every year and it destabilizes this whole freaking plan.

>> You're you're 49. Think about what rent was when you were nine.

>> I know. >> I know. And that's what you're talking about here. So, when you're 90, that's what we're talking about. >> And you don't want to be paying rent at 90. This plan sucks.

Renting longterm is not a good idea because it destabilizes cuz it goes up every year more than the cost of operating the condo does >> and the condo goes up in value too and you can always liquidate it and decide to consume the whole deal in your last 25 years if you have if you have the luxury of knowing when that is. >> I think that's a great plan. I don't think you need to make a a decision right now for the next 40 years of your life. Cut that in half in 20.

month and you're thinking, [laughter] >> I predict you will sell the condo before 60 for one or two or three reasons. You know, >> the downsize. >> Every time I think I'm going to live in a house till I die, I live too long. So, there you go.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Aiden in Alabama. My fiance and I have been practicing budgeting as we prepare for marriage. We're both debtree except for my house and once we combine finances, we'll have extra money left each month.

She likes shopping while I like to spend money on golf trips and don't buy many clothes. Would it make sense to set up a separate fun money or separate fund money accounts from our joint account

with a set amount deposited each month for us to spend however we want. I worry

that when I take a solo trip, I might feel guilty about spending money on things that I enjoy that she doesn't really care about.

>> Yes. >> Welcome to marriage, Aiden.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> That's going to happen. Yes, you're going to spend things that she doesn't care about. She's going to spend money on things that you don't care about. But that's why together you decide, hey,

here's how much money a month we're going to spend that we each get to spend. And you get to do it guiltfree.

there's no worry because it's a set amount. Now, if you go over that amount, then yeah, there's going to be some frustration of, hey, we said this amount and you're going over it, but that's a whole other discussion. >> If you want to open is he he's saying separate set up a separate account for fund money only to deposit the money from the budget, the joint budget and the joint account into a fund money account. You could do that or you could just open up a syncing do a syncing fund in every dollar.

>> Well, or but it's separate fund money accounts. So she has a fun money account and hers is fine. >> Nothing wrong with that. >> Separate checking.

It's that feels like check different checking accounts. Do a lot of money. No. And it's in the budget.

>> Okay. If you get $200 for your fund money and Winston gets $200 for his fund money. >> Where do you put that money? >> It's all in our checking.

>> Okay. Yeah. And but how do you keep up with it's his or >> every dollar? >> Okay.

You syncing fund. >> No, not a scing fund. Just when the transaction comes in and I get my nails done, I drag it into the Rachel line item. >> Yeah.

But what if you don't spend the whole $200 in a month? Well, that's a bigger discussion of how what would you do in any category >> saving up for a golf trip? >> In any category. Well, in that case, yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And just put money aside. >> That's what I'm saying. That's the same thing. I mean, the only question is whether you just How do you do the accounting? >> Mhm. >> To separate it and keep it separate so that he doesn't feel like he's spending her money or she doesn't feel like he's spending her. So, you do it with a scing fund if it goes over the portion of a month. Or you could have a separate account just for the trip.

>> Just for the fun money. Yeah, that's okay. I >> I don't know why it feels legalistic. I don't know. I feel legalistic. That feels like separate accounts to me. >> Okay. All right. I don't care. It >> as long as you don't do it as long as everybody has access to it and you can see 100% >> and all of that. >> 100%. Yeah. >> But like different line items because even in different savings like high yield savings, you can have different line items within it. Yeah.

>> Within the actual account.

>> Um. >> Yeah. >> So, I wonder if you could do it that way too. But >> but I Yeah. I think a syncing fund in every dollar is a better plan. Yeah, >> actually because you don't get into the

>> the spirit of it that's bothering you.

>> It's the this is my money over here.

>> Yeah, >> this is my money and and so it it is >> well it has been allocated to >> it's been allocated but it starts to feel um >> well let me give you an example. Okay, that that fixes it. Okay. So, like when we first started doing this, you were a little kid and your mother would be

would play the uh southern bell martyr

and spend all of the clothing money on the kids.

And of course, I'm buying clothing money at to for work, right? Period. So, she ends up with no clothing.

>> Yeah. >> So, I ended up to get her to stop doing that, we were using envelopes with >> cash. Yeah. Yeah, >> we had a kids clothing envelope and a Sharon's clothing envelope and she had to spend the Sharon money on Sharon.

>> No excuse cuz she would spend it all on y'all and I'll just wear the drapes.

>> You know, I'll make something out of the drapes O'Hara, right?

>> I'll take the drapes down and it'll be okay. And you know, like we there's no reason to be a martyr. We have the money. >> Sound of Music. That's Maria on Sound of Music. She took the drapes down from the captain. And >> they did. They did. And they did it in Sound and Yeah. both both places.

>> That's where Sound of Music got it. But uh anyway, yeah, still the uh man that

the So the important thing in this whole discussion, Aiden, >> is that you're not even married and you're already both concentrating on this. That means you're going to win.

>> Yeah. And there's a little bit of me. I kind of like the exposure. I think it's good practice for yourself to spend money on yourself and let your spouse see it. Cuz one of those things I might feel guilty spending money on things that you should enjoy. And I'm like, you have to learn about that in marriage. Like there is like there's a part when you kind of just hide that over here so I don't have to feel guilty.

>> That's where I'm like run into that.

Like go straight into that emotion.

Okay. >> Let her see what you're spending. Let her be like I think that was probably kind of stupid and silly or whatever she's going to say to you. Hopefully she doesn't say that. Um, >> I don't understand you spend that much money to put a very small white ball in a very small hole.

>> I don't understand. Yeah, that >> golf. I don't understand that. Yes. >> I don't understand purses that cost more than a car. So, yeah, but it's Yeah, it's >> these are great discussions to have.

>> I think it's good to kind of face it head on. >> You need another gun as a as a Oh my gosh, as a newlywed couple, I think

there's like a level of exposure there that's good to live in. And she may feel silly about buying something that you don't think, but I think that's good discussion to have like talk about those things. Yeah. >> Versus avoiding it and putting it in separate accounts so you don't have to feel. >> Okay. That's that's what was tickling your spirit. I see it now. Was hiding it over there. He's ducking. He was ducking the emotion. >> I Yes. I like everything in the lights.

Bringing the lights. >> Yes. Yes. That's good. But the great news and the overall thing is Aiden, you guys are going to win because the number of people that are smart enough to do what you guys are doing right now and actually have these discussions before marriage, boom, boom, boom. You're going to be huge. Y'all are going to be amazing. You're going to have a great marriage. You're going to be very wealthy. The these are indicators that are just incredible for you. Way to go.

Jillian's in Charlotte. Hey Jillian, what's up?

>> Hi Dave and Rachel.

>> Hi.

I have a question about paying for college. >> Cool.

>> I have the answers to all your questions. So, do you want to ask me or do you want >> No. What are you asking? Tell me what First I need to know the question about how to pay for college now

or in the future. >> How to pay how to navigate the next four years of my life. >> Gotcha. How old are your kiddos and how many?

>> Um, we have three children. Our daughter

graduated from UT in 23. So, one down,

two to go. And she is married, so she's

off of our payroll. >> Good. Okay. So, we got two to deal with.

>> And they are 17 and 18.

>> Okay. How did you pay for college for the first one?

>> Um, out of my nose and around my elbow

and you know. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> well, and out of state, Jillian, right?

out of state. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Do you you don't have you don't have the money for these other two. Is that what you're saying?

>> Right. But um I have seven seven grand

in a 529, but we didn't have that or use

any for her college. and she came out,

you know, her her degree cost about 208

and she had $18,000 in debt, which she's

almost got that. >> What's her degree in? >> She went to UT State.

>> That's not $118,000.

Just fouryear tuition.

>> Yeah. 20 something,000.

>> 52 a year >> for what? >> It's 52 per year at UT out of state.

University of Tennessee is $52,000 a year out of state. They don't want you people apparently. [laughter] >> Or they do. They want her money >> because it's it's $12,000 a year for instate. >> Did she do nurse? Did she do >> um Okay. >> They are really good to their instate.

Tennessee is very good to the Tennessee.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's move on.

We're gonna run out of time. Let's move.

Let's move on. We got a 17 and an 18y old. They're going in state cuz you don't have the money.

>> Well, >> and they're going to a community college for the first two years cuz you don't have the money.

>> No, they're one of them is finishing his first year at the community college and he's going to Appalachin State. The other one is >> How much is Appalachian State this year?

>> Appalachin I mean all in housing, room,

board, tuition, fees, and books is about 28. Okay, so here's the thing. The thing

that causes people to not be able to pay for college is not college. It's college choice. You choose a college that fits your budget. The kid works. You take scholarships. You stay instate and you choose a college that fits your budget.

And that's how you pay for college.

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[music]

Okay, time to circle back. Uh, we have a

best not bestselling, that's not right.

An award. >> No, no, no, no, no. I just I just said it during the break. I I said let's don't.

>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about that. >> Okay. >> Um, God, y'all y'all are right in a family discussion here, but um No.

The uh we have a documentary, Rachel, called >> Okay. called uh that that the public knows about. Okay. [laughter] And that I can talk about since I own it.

And um yeah, it's called Borrowed Future and it's award-winning and you can watch it for free. And it's talking about the student loan debacle and what's going on.

on this ridiculous student loan crisis,

and it is ridiculous. There's $1.8 trillion dollar in student loan debt now.

And Congress talks about it being bad.

And everybody talks about it being bad, but they keep doing it.

If it's so bad you have to forgive it, but you keep making the loans, that's intellectually dishonest. Okay? And so

anyway, all of that is in that documentary and you can watch it. But the thing that the core thing comes down to our last caller, okay? How do you pay

for college?

If you list out five things that impact

whether you can pay for college,

the thing that takes up 70% 75%

of the space and the other four take up the 25% of the space is college choice

because nothing in our society has a

wider spectrum of cost than colleges.

Okay. So, an example being that instate

tuition for the University of Tennessee, I said 12,000. We looked it up during the break, is 13,000. I missed it. Okay.

And out of state tuition is not 52,000.

Out of state tuition is 32,000, >> but with room and board, >> but with room and board allin, it was about 50,000. And the girl went to school four years and she had 200,000 out of pocket. So, that's what the mom said. So, the mom's numbers were right, but it was all in with room and board and everything else, right? And that's pretty hefty on those numbers.

But anyway, so you have to ask yourself, what am I getting for what I'm spending?

Okay, so what do you get when you go to a college?

You get the college experience.

Whoopdedoopy.

You get to say you went to that school, which there's no correlation between what school you go to and what success you have. No piece of research ever has ever said a certain school is more successful than another. None. A lot of people believe it, but it's not true.

There's no data to back it up. Okay? So,

if you want to go to a super expensive, fancy fancy school that has a big name on it and you have the money, it's fine.

I'm not mad at you. Don't tell me that you have a higher probability of being successful because there's no data to back up your statement.

So what are you getting if you get

basically the same knowledge base? So I've been to the University of North Carolina. I graduated from the University of Tennessee.

Both are fine academic institutions.

If you graduate from either one of them, we will hire you at Ramsey.

Okay? you went to Alabama. You'll have to kind of squeeze through, but it's fine. >> Yeah, there you go. That's funny. I There's an Alabama lady sitting out here. Yeah. [laughter] So, uh, and Bobb's back questionable about that stuff, but yeah, Florida for sure. But yeah, but um, anyway, so you see what I'm saying? So, the point is in instead of if you could pay 13,000 or you can pay 32,000 for the same thing,

why would you do that?

and they're literally 300 miles, 200

miles apart. The only thing that there

she's closer to the University of Tennessee than we are in Nashville when

where she's calling from. But she had to go across the state line and ding ding ding ding ding tripled the cost.

Why would you do that

if you're short on money? Now, if you have the money, that's fine. Like, I've

got a friend who sent his kid to Alabama, but he went to Alabama and he's got plenty of money. And by the way, Alabama has actually really good out of state tuition. They like out of state people. Um, so I can make a real funny comment about that, but I'm not. But anyway, the uh uh just keep moving. But the point is where you go to school, you only do that if

you have the freaking money. In most

states now, you can go to a community college free or almost free for the first two years.

So don't spend $76,000

in student loan debt a year

to go to Vanderbilt.

That's stupid.

Now, if you again, if your mama's rich and she gonna write you a check, I'm okay if you want to go. >> Scholarship, grant, whatever. Yes, >> I'm okay if you want to go to Vanderbilt. I if you want to go, I don't care. But don't go in debt to that and

tell me you got a bargain. You did not get a bargain.

So, how in the world can children go to

school and go to school in a place they can afford? and you make wise choices based on the [snorts] value that you're getting for what you're spending. And that is huge. And folks, that Rachel,

you said this in the documentary, and I'll never forget it because I thought it was really wise. You said it's more of a parenting problem than it is a student loan problem.

>> Yeah. Well, because the 18-year-olds, their frontal cortex of their brain isn't even fully formed, you know? So, I'm like, they're still kids. I mean, yes, they're >> somebody's going to look at them and say, "No, this is stupid." >> They don't know.

And and I do think the repercussions of what happens in your life because we sit in these chairs, you know, every day taking calls from people that have 38,000 100,000 of student loan debt and they're, you know, they're working their way out. >> 104,000 in a parent plus loan cuz mom and dad borrowed the money to facilitate the stupidity. >> That was in the first hour. Yeah.

So, it's just it is the 18-year-old doesn't know, doesn't understand the full consequences and repercussions of this decision that they're making at 18. And that's what's so frustrating about it, right? I'm like, if you're >> they can't buy beer, but they can borrow 100 grand. >> Yes.

Seriously. And if they go and try to get a mortgage or something, I'm like, no. No one would give them that much money ever. >> The banks wouldn't give them that much money.

The government wasn't so stupid that it guaranteed it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's the thing.

>> So, it is. >> So, I mean, that this is the deal. So, moms and dads, people are wait. >> Listen, here's the deal.

You go $12,000 a year, you live at home for the first two years, and you go to community college, and then you need $12,000 a year. That's $24,000.

Okay. Two years in a community college transfer. Plan your plan your curriculum out to where it's all all the credits transfer and all of it meshes up and works in the syllabus. It's not rocket surgery. If you can't do that, you probably can't graduate from college anyway. So, you need to do this. Okay?

Lay out the plan. Execute the freaking plan. And if you lived at home the entire time, you could do it for $24,000. You can make that driving Uber

while you're in school. You can make that delivering pizza, mowing grass while you're in school. Go to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. They will hire you to blow their leaves. Okay, you can do this. You can go to school working if

you keep your stinking cost down.

>> Retail. Work retail. Yeah, >> you can keep your cost down and get through. Well, you can't work while you're in school. Everybody listening to me right now worked while they were in school.

Except the three people that said that just now. You know, seriously, you

everybody worked. I worked while I was in school like an animal cuz the only I had to have money. I didn't mean money.

We were so broke we couldn't pay attention.

I went out on the first date with my wife. I had a $117 in my checking account. I mean, come on people. This is

this is this is college. What do you think this is? The Taj Mahal. >> Yeah. But what's happened is it's it's the the debt has been so normalized that you live off of it. You don't have to work, right? Because it's all paid for.

It's all right there. So it it is a you >> stinking colleges have a lazy river.

>> No, they don't. >> Yes, they do. One does. You can float down the river. No way. >> Yes, it does. With a inner tube just like you're at the park like you're at Six Flags. Promise you. I don't >> think so. I Yeah, we have been it to

some campuses and some stuff and you're like, "Wow, >> it's just you guys have lost your minds.

It's all financed by state funded, you know, and and so guys, choose a school

you can afford

>> and get your kid knowledge. The degree is worthless. >> And if you're a parent, >> currency is knowledge >> in high school. Just knowledge is Yeah.

Knowledge is what matters. >> Replay this clip if they're [music] a senior in high school cuz school choice it's it's coming around the corner for these seniors if they haven't already done early acceptance. [music] So >> yeah. Well, you don't have to go just cuz you got accepted. >> That's true.

>> I know somebody like that.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Tom is

in Seattle. Hey Tom, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up, >> Dave? I just need your opinion

if you two would be so kind to give it on an upcoming rather sizable purchase I have planned. >> Okay. >> Um, my 11 year or I'm sorry, my 11 months

old pup needs an operation that's going to run about 7,000 bucks.

And so my wife and I have mutually decided to cancel our vacation this year and we're going to we're going to get her taken care of. Um

all my friends and neighbors that I've I've told about this just look at me and shake their heads as if they don't agree. You know what what do you think?

Am I missing something? I I cannot see not doing this.

>> Okay.

Um, >> I'd say a couple things, Tom. Do you guys have the 7,000?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And is the surgery is there a guarantee

>> at the end of this? >> No, there's there's no guarantee, but

the guarantee without it she will go lame fairly quickly.

>> Is your Is it a Is it a bulldog?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, she's a Chihuahua mix.

>> Okay. I was going to say our our George camel just spent >> Yeah. a sizable amount more than I think what you're about to spend on his and his ended up in a wheelchair. His his dog really Yeah, he's in a wheelchair right now. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, >> we've been we've been picking on George about it. So, but um Oh, >> yeah. But, uh good naturaturedly. We love George in doubt, but [clears throat] he he's he's fun about it. But, um >> so, okay, first thing is um the Ramsies are

unbelievable dog lovers. Okay. So, my um

my uh opinion is skewed. I mean,

laughingly, I can say if it was a cat, no way, right? I'm kidding. But no, [laughter] so I'm kid. That's a joke.

Okay. But um but the uh uh but yeah, I

love my little dog. I walk three miles with her in the morning. And um you know

the thing I run into with people on this question and I've had this question over 30 years several times or something like it is the first thing is are we doing

this for the animal and is it going to be in pain? Is this selfish on the

human's part?

>> So for instance I know a lady that put I know a lady that put her dog through four years of chemo. That was unfair to the dog.

>> Uhhuh. >> In my opinion, okay? She was doing that

cuz she didn't want to lose the dog. But the poor dog suffered. Okay. And you

know that that's harsh as far as I'm concerned. I I wouldn't do that to a dog. I love And but I I cry every single

time like a 10-year-old girl when we put a dog down. >> When we put ours down, you cried.

>> I did. [laughter] I came over and visited yours the day before she went before Nala went to heaven. now. And all dogs do go to heaven. There's no question. So, it's a theological fact.

But the uh uh but so, you know, that's

not the question. The the the thing is number one is the dog. Are you doing this for you or for the dog? Cuz I I could fall into the category if I'm not real careful.

I I don't want I don't want to lose my dog, you know? I mean, I love them. And so, I'll do anything. And but that's not fair to the dog.

And because these are dogs, they're not humans. And so it's a different it's a different measure as far as I'm concerned. You ask our opinion.

to be in pain because you are selfish as a human to keep it around. If the dog walks with a limp and hurts the rest of its life because you did this and you didn't have the courage to make a call, that's not fair to the dog. But if this if the dog is healthy after this and you get 10 good years with the pup, you know, or whatever after this because of this, the pup has a great life after that and you got the $7,000. No, I don't think you're crazy then.

Nope. Sorry. You couldn't afford the dog?

>> Nope. I've got the I've got the money and uh yeah, just we're going to do it.

>> Yeah. You see what I'm saying though?

But yeah, I mean I understand that cuz it depends on where your neighbor grew up, right? My wife grew up on the farm

and let me tell you 100% chance that dog

ain't going to make it. Okay.

>> She's got she's not does not have this.

>> They have Yeah. >> Yeah. She She's more She does not dog crazy like I am. Right. So this $7,000

Nope. Nope. Not happening. I just >> I spent a crazy amount on Maggie's hips.

You're going >> retrieve. But I did it in spite of your mother. I mean, you know. Yeah.

[laughter] >> But that and I got and that dog had 10 12 good years. >> You know, we did spend some money on that dog. That was a golden retriever had bad hips. >> Okay. And as a pup, we had to do the hips and so it was it was expensive. But um and it was a pain in the butt. But the dog was a great one of the best dogs I ever had. So anyway, all that to say,

yeah, but um >> you're not crazy. Just make sure you grew up if you as long as you're not hurt. As long as you're not being a selfish immature person and you're doing this and harming the animal, you know what I'm saying? >> No.

No. >> And and so this is for all the people that are trying that are going to hate me after this. So just get in line. All you cat people, get in line.

Right behind the dog people that get in line, behind the credit card people to get in line.

>> Yeah. There is a there's a spectrum of what people's threshold is.

>> Yeah. >> For an animal, a pet, right? Um financially. >> Yeah. And your mother's is much lower because animals come and go on. >> And George, I think, is even past you, Dave. I think our George camel. >> Yeah. George George is George is over our line. Yeah. He's over my line.

>> George will do anything. Yeah.

>> For those dogs. >> Yeah. And um >> so it's where you fall. Personal value.

Where you want to put your money is make sure you have the money. >> Yeah. Don't and don't and and be be a kind person that doesn't >> cause an animal to hurt for your selfish because you're selfishly weak >> and can't >> uh take go through the pain of doing the right thing, >> right? >> You know, it it's just um that's a lack

of courage on the human's part and that's unfair to the animal. That's inhumane as far as I'm concerned.

>> Um but and I see people do that because they're just like, "Oh, well, you can't get rid of whatever." And it's um we get we get cuz we all get so attached to them. Oh my gosh. I like my dog more than I like a lot of people. I mean, you know, it's really I do. We do get attached to them. So, >> Dave, big dog, small dog.

>> I like them all. I really do. I like dogs. And Jade Jade lost Jade lost hers a few weeks ago. >> I know. >> She'd had him for 12 years or something.

Big old Rottweiler. >> They're >> and they had to put him down. >> They're part of the family. >> He just couldn't he couldn't get up one morning. >> Yeah. >> It's awful. And Yeah. It's just >> dad's dog now is a little What is Bella?

>> She's a bear dog. >> No, she's not a bear dog. She's >> She's legendary. Yeah, they this this breed keeps away bears and I think the legend is true cuz I've not seen a bear since I got her. So, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, she's 12 pounds. >> Just know we all here. Bella, Bella,

[laughter] Bella, where's Bella? Like, Dad, she's she's in the other room. Just go get her. Go get her. [laughter] >> They gave me a hard time. >> Bella. >> The whole family. The whole family on vacation. This is on vacation. >> On vacation. Just >> No, that's not true. >> It's not true. But yeah, you know, it's funny. >> We love our dogs, though. >> We are dogs. >> You're not crazy. You're not crazy.

>> All three Ramsay kids have a dog and we have a dog and we love our dogs. And all three of us cry when we put them down.

And >> that's the way it is. And it's part of You're not You're not unless something really h bad happens to you, you're going to outlive them regardless. So, you better get better get that as part of the program.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

>> Heat. Heat.

>> [music]

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Noel is in San Antonio. Hi Noel. How are

you? >> Hello. I'm doing good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. Um I currently have a car note

that's uh $1,200.

And I'm looking to at first I was I wanted to get a single family home, but

now that I've been doing research and um looking into getting uh wealth um I was thinking on a multi- family home.

>> I was just wondering if it's a if I'm at a good uh point in my life to get it right now or should I wait on it?

>> You should wait. You should get out. You should get your debts paid off. either get rid of the car or pay the car off.

That car payment is out of control.

>> Is it $1,200 a month, Noah? Or the whole note is 1,200?

>> No, it's 1,200 a month.

>> How old are you? >> Yeah, I'm 24.

>> Yeah. How much do you make a year?

>> Uh 60, but I just got a job offering. Um

and um they said I I could be up in there in the in the 80s.

>> Yeah. And And what do you owe on this car, sir? >> I owe 80. 80.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, let me let me as kindly as I

possibly can say that's insanity.

>> Yes, it is. Trust me, I did not want to get this vehicle. I got >> Yes, you did. You got the vehicle and you're 24 and you were sober and you signed the note. So, yes, you did want to get it. But yes, you do need to get rid of it. >> Yes. Now, >> I I I tried calling them trying to see if I could trade it in maybe for something older because um my parents

basically forced me to get it because they said I should get something reliable since I have two kids. And before this vehicle, I was having a lot of car problems and >> Okay. >> You you have a lot of excuses is what you have. You're a 24 year old man. Your parents don't force you to do anything.

>> Yeah. There's some strong ling. There's some There's definitely um putting the

blame of the car on other people, Noel.

Just so you hear us. I mean, my parents forced me. I had to These are pretty extreme statements that you didn't have to do any of this. And you could get a reliable car for $10,000.

>> Yeah. >> For your two kids. So, you you need need to sell this car. >> Yeah. >> And you don't need to trade it in on something slightly older. You need a 10.

>> How did you get the financing for this, though? If you make 60, how did they how did they finance you an $80,000 car?

>> Um, well, first I had traded in an Equinox I had and the >> was it negative value rolled over?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. >> And then my grandma helped me co-signed also. >> Oh, they loaned her the money.

>> Your poor grandmother.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh.

>> You got to get out of this car. Oh man, I'm so scared for her right now.

No, I really am. This is not going to go well, sir. What do you think this car is actually worth?

>> I I called today saying uh what it's worth, and they said it's about 40.

>> And you were how far upside down on the Equinox?

>> I think it was uh 30, I believe.

>> Okay. And so this has already lost 10,000. And you bought it how long ago?

Uh, I'd say like eight months ago. >> Oh my gosh, honey.

Yeah. No, you don't need to be talking about buying any kind of house. You have a extreme car crisis on your hands. And

your grandmother is at risk. I'm very

afraid for her right now. And I really, really, really want you guys to take six jobs and start paying extra on this car.

Pretend like you have $40,000 in credit card debt. You have a $40,000 car debt.

Um, yeah. The finance manager at this dealership should be put in jail.

>> Horrible. So horrible.

>> They took an old lady and put her on as a co-signer. >> Yeah, they did with a guy making this guy making equity. So stupid.

>> This is This is It's not illegal, but

it's legalized fraud. This is ridiculous. >> At who knows what interest rate.

>> Yeah. Well, it's 1,200 bucks. Yeah. Oh my god. And he makes 60 grand. So honey.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, Noel, I would be acting like I make 40 and if you get this extra 80, which is amazing, get this car paid off in a year. Like, like you have some upside on this, but this needs to be your number one focus. >> Yeah. Clear the car. >> Do not act like 80 if you get this car.

>> Clear the car. For God's sakes, honey, take care of your grandmother by clearing the car because it's going to land back in her lap cuz it's going to go sideways if you don't straighten it up.

And so far, your track record on cars is pretty lousy.

So, and don't go back over to that dealership for anything ever. Just drive by and wave at them

>> and go on Kelly Blue Book and just see a private sale and just I'm just curious if it's a little bit more, right? If you can have if there's any any more relief, a couple of thousand. There's any way you could sell it for 50 and get a hooptie, tell your parents to jump in the creek [laughter] and start paying off the other 40 or 30

so your grandmother doesn't get screwed over here cuz this thing's going down in value every stinking day you own it and it's adding to the problem. So, you need to get rid of it and but you're going to have to cover the difference somewhere.

And I don't know how your poor grandmother.

Oh, I'm so pissed right now at the

dealer, at the mom and dad. I'm sad for

the grandmother and I'm sad for Noel.

And yet they all were adults and all made decisions.

Wow.

See, grandmas, attention, grandmothers,

100% of the time you cosign, you're

stupid.

100. Oh, he's a good little boy. He'll pay it. Honey, he's dumber than a rock.

He can't pay the bill.

>> Not you, Noel. Nothing in general.

>> Seriously, this is You cannot pay the freaking bill. I don't care how sweet he is. I don't care if he's out of your DNA. He cannot pay the bill. That's why they called you, old lady.

Don't cosign for your grandkids. You're

not a blessing. You're a curse. You helped them get trapped.

Don't do that. Grandparents and parents,

quit telling people to buy crap they can't afford cuz your grandbabies are riding in it. Unless you're writing a freaking check, shut up.

Oh my gosh, you people. This is

ridiculous.

You're killing me. These poor people, man. And then you go in there and this car finance guy is smoking crack. Who

makes this loan?

Who makes this loan but a crackhead?

Nobody.

OH MY GOD. YOU LOAN $80,000 to an old

lady and a kid that DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO PAY THE BILL, you crackhead, you ought to be

put in jail. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. OH MY

GOSH.

SEE, this is what happens. This is the problem. You guys get victimized by these stinking car companies, by these student loans. You get victimized by City Bank cuz Samuel L. Jackson who has a little red wagon carrying his money around cuz he made it all trying to sell you City Bank. What's in your wallet? It ain't Samuel Jackson's money. I can tell you that. So you guys got to quit doing this stuff, man. You got to quit lining up like sheep to the slaughter. You just walk in, I'll take I'll take $150,000

student loan and yeah, I got to get my cash back. Samuel, thank you. And that

guy that lives in the City Bank lobby, he don't live in the City Bank lobby, people. That's an actor. Hello. He lives in a mansion that he paid for by being an actor on City Bank commercials with your money. Hello. Quit believing this crap, y'all. You're getting screwed by all these people. The borrower is slave to the lender. Quit lining up and tell me I was forced to buy. You weren't forced to do squat. You're like a grown

person and stuff. Act like it. Quit this

people. Noel, I'm not just yelling at you, honey. I'm yelling at you. I'm yelling at everybody that's like you that's out there listening and they're all going, "Good God, I want I want you to be free, honey. I'm glad you called here and we'll help you. We'll put you on hold. I'm going to put you with one of our coaches for free since I picked on you so hard." And but honey, my god,

do some math.

Jeez, this is just

how in the world somebody find that

finance manager and put him in jail, please, before he acts again.

>> Just glad you haven't picked on Jennifer Gardner. >> Oh, I need to. I can do hair extensions, but then I'd have to get you. >> Sweet, sweet Jennifer Gardner.

>> [music]

>> Heat. [music] Heat.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/.

[music]

[music] Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Click the show notes and say hit the link says, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Free quiz get you on track, show you what you're doing. We'll help you help you develop a personalized plan right quick. Ashley is with us in

Columbus, Ohio. On the other end of the spectrum, one of our Baby Steps millionaires, congratulations, Ashley.

What's your net worth?

>> 1.16 million, Dave. 1.16.

Okay, cool. Break that down for me a little bit. What's the uh categories like 401k and so forth and how much?

>> Yeah, so in our house equity, we have 420,000.

>> In investments, which include retirement, our 529 plan, we have

570,000.

>> Personal assets/collectibles, we have 120,000. And then we have about 50,000 in cash. >> Good. Well done. How old are you?

>> I'm 30. MY HUSBAND'S 29.

>> WOW. YOU'RE YOUNG MILLIONAIRES.

>> How much of this did you inherit?

>> So, we were blessed that my husband's parents had a 529 plan for him that was

not used up. We inherited $100,000.

That's now um a school fund for our daughter and we got that this past winter time. So, we were just over the millionaire mark before we inherited that. But we are blessed that we were able to have that from his parents.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. Great. But the point being mathematically you did not become a millionaire because of inherited money. >> Correct. We were both >> So how did you do it?

>> By 30. >> Um we're very boring. So we I thankfully found you relatively young. Um I was >> Wait a minute. That's not boring.

[laughter] >> I [clears throat] like >> um so I found you when I was graduating.

I realized I had a bunch of student loan debt and I was trying to find a plan of how to pay that off. I found y'all and I've just s like followed your plan ever since. So, uh, we're very boring. We invest. We are big savers actually, both of us. We kind of break the norm. >> Do you have any fun? >> Fun being >> Yes, we do. >> What do you [laughter] do that's what do you do that's fun?

>> We travel a lot. We buy things that we want when we want them. >> What's the coolest place you've traveled to? >> The coolest place we've traveled to? Um, I would say we did a joint trip both to Paris and then to Ireland. Um, Paris.

>> That doesn't sound like boring.

>> Yeah, that's fun. >> No. Uh, we got to do Paris um when I was

pregnant with our first and then we got to go to Ireland to pick up um a great gift for one of my husband's employees which was such a blessing and a really fun time. >> Wow. Very cool. Very cool. So, man, so

you have had fun. You've had a life. But by boring, I think you just mean you're intentional. >> Correct. Well, nothing nothing flashy.

You're just investing is pretty flashy.

>> No, no. I'm saying like from a wealth building perspective. They're not like, "Oh, we're going to go do all this like all this." It's just like uh we just invest and that's, you know, the main thing, which is great. >> Yeah. We live we live below our means.

That's something that we've always done.

Um I'd never used credit cards growing up. Neither did my husband. >> What was your what's been your income through this period of time?

So, our lowest or worst income, I was making about $37,000 and my husband was making about 30. We weren't married at the time, so we were separate. And then our best income year was probably this past year before I become a stay-at-home mom at $325,000.

>> Oh, nice. >> And you became millionaires on that by age 30. Yeah. Wow.

>> Correct. >> Very, very cool. Very cool. What are your careers?

My husband's in aviation management and I'm a geologist who's working to become a stay at home mom in the next couple months. Got it. >> That's cool. What do you do as a geologist? >> I play in the dirt. That's what I like to say. >> Yeah, that's cool. How many kids do you have? >> We have one baby girl and a baby boy on the way. >> Good for you. >> So great, Ashley. That's awesome. >> Congratulations. So proud for y'all.

Very, very, very well done. So, uh, if we got a 20some out there listening, what would what would you tell them?

I would say my husband's advice and he's very adamant about this is to live below your means and don't try to be fancy or clever. Be boring. Do the slow things.

Invest. Save for your future. Uh don't

try to outsmart the system. There is no outsmarting it. Do the boring things as I said before. Um and then my advice

would be I was very thankful that I found you young. I worked seven days a week to pay off my loans and save money.

I always thought of it when I was in debt as that I had negative money and that really motivated me to be responsible and work as hard as I could when I was young. Now that I have babies, you know, I want to be home with them and there's more excuses to not work hard. And thankfully, we're in a position where we don't have I don't have to work seven days a week, but I worked hard young so that I can now reap the reward a little bit older um and spend time with my family. >> You lived like no one else and now you can live and give like no one else.

it's almost like a plan.

>> I like it. >> It's awesome, Ashley. Well done. >> Well done. Very well done, Ashley.

Excellent. Excellent. What kind of car do you drive?

>> I drive a Lexus SUV and my husband drives a BMW SUV.

>> What year?

>> My husband's, I believe, is a 2021.

Mine's a 20 a 2005.

>> Oh, you drive a junker. Okay.

>> We're working on upgrading. That will be when baby number two comes. >> Yeah. You need to That car sucks. Yeah, [laughter] >> I don't mind what I drive though.

>> I know you I can tell you it doesn't bother you a bit. Yeah, >> it's a great car. Lexuses will run forever. >> Yeah, apparently this one has. Yeah.

>> Almost got 300,000 miles on it.

>> It's a 21-y old vehicle. It's a fine vehicle. >> Good for you, Ashley. >> Yeah. Good for you. So proud of you.

It's excellent. The number of times that somebody's driving a Toyota uh when they're millionaires, the first one to two million is just scary to me. I don't know what it is about Toyotas, but they're there. They're everywhere, you know. And of course, Lexus is a Toyota in case you didn't know, folks. But okay, very cool. Congratulations, Ashley. You're the great American hero, man. Baby steps millionaire. Started doing our stuff when they're baby children. I mean, 20 years old, right?

And just like game on and clean up the student loan mess that they had and work like a crazy person. Now, now she's got now she doesn't have to ask the question, can I afford to stay at home?

>> The question doesn't come up. >> Such a gift. Yep. >> And so he they can easily live on his income. They've already got a $1 million net worth by age 30.

Which by the way, you can do just a quick predictions. It's fairly easy to say they're if they stay just generally on track, it's probably 20 or 25 million when they're 65. That's about where that'll land. So, um, not too shabby.

Well done. Uh, it's called changing the old family tree right there. So, mom and dad left a hundred grand.

>> Well, and they both grew up >> Ashley. Nope. They both grew up with uh

they both said we both you know never had credit cards. We you know what I mean? So the household environment >> that you're raising your family in it that matters more than taught. Rachel Cruz says yes >> they're watching. >> Yeah. They're going to do what you do and so financial peace babies do matter.

Yeah. It's a big deal. And so she grew up learning this stuff obviously and um it's the benefit of having for me of having been doing this now for 35 plus years is that I am getting to see second and even third generation of people that have been following this stuff and the results are are astronomical with compound interest and with wisdom parlayed over that many decades uh how

what you start to see happen. And so, I mean, if you think about Rachel was uh born in April, we filed bankruptcy in

September and she's sitting here, you know, I mean, that's that that that's the same thing, you know, in a way. And so, it's it's the principles. This is what the principles that we're teaching God's ways of handling money do because scripture is God's love letter to you.

It's your dad that loves you. He's saying, "Do it this Okay. And 100% of the time, by the way, he's right. And if you disagree with him, 100% of the time, you're what known as what's wrong. Okay?

So, you're you're just off. This is not going to work. All right? And so, even

if you're not a person of faith, it doesn't matter. This stuff is just the freaking truth. It works. Okay? Every

stinking time. And then when you parlay

it out over an extended period of time, you get Ashley. >> And those things are working hard and being diligent, staying away from debt.

Every time debt is mentioned in scripture, it's in a negative fashion.

>> Exactly. >> Saving. >> Yep. >> Being generous. >> Always. >> Um looking at what you're spending, knowing what you have, and managing it well. >> Yep. >> It's all of it. I mean, it's common sense, right? That's why the gods and grandmas tagline is so true.

>> Yeah, it is. >> But in a world that that again, she kept saying boring, boring, boring. And I understand what she's saying because when you go and scroll, you know, where a lot of people are finding their financial advice on social and YouTube and all of it, there's exciting things over here that you can do this and Airbnb and you can do. I mean, it's just it is like uh it's a lot of distraction.

And so to just invest and pay off your house in today's terms, that is considered boring. But that's the thing that is tried and true. [music] It's the tortoise. It is just it always it works.

It works decade after [music] decade.

>> [music]

>> When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again, it can feel like you're losing your mind. But you're not alone, and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It turns out money is emotional. And no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck until now.

I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramiesolutions.com/store.

That's ramseyolutions.com/store.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Psalm 111:10.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. All who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise. [music] L. David Marquette said, "One of the things that limits our learning is our belief that we already know something."

That's fun. Jennifer's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Uh, I'm married and I have two children and our family has started the baby step.

>> And we just [snorts] finished baby step two.

Um, the reason I'm calling is because our we we lost a family member, unfortunately.

>> And that [clears throat] person uh left us $500,000.

>> Wow.

>> Okay. And the person told us verbally that they wanted it to go to our children. And so we are going to honor that.

So my question is, should I

>> They should have left it to your children.

Well, didn't and we're going to honor that. So, they'll get it anyway.

>> Mhm. >> They'll get it anyway. So, my question is, do I use some of that money to move us through the baby steps because the kids will end up getting everything we own anyway, or do I just keep that separate and say, "No, I don't touch that." >> I would I would walk it right through the baby steps because that's the way your kids end up getting the most bang for their buck out of the 500k.

Assuming you leave it all to them anyway. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Because because you're you're past baby step two, Jennifer, right? So it would be baby step three. What would what would be a fully funded emergency fund for you guys? How much out of the 500 >> would that be? >> Um I would say 20,000 out of the 500.

>> And what do you owe on your home?

>> 240. >> Okay. And so you still got 250,000 bucks. Roughly 240,000 bucks left.

And um >> uh give or take. and that's to be invested and of course then the home's going to go up in value which is an investment and kids are going to be just fine with that. I absolutely would do that. Now it is incumbent upon you then because you took a leap forward regardless of how you took the leap forward.

You know where the money came from. Okay, let's just say you got a bonus check for that. I would still tell you exactly the same thing is my point.

that you permanently invest for the rest of your lives what would have been a house payment plus more money >> so that you know this this becomes millions and millions and millions of dollars in the future.

>> Okay. So you would apply it to the baby steps. >> Yes. because that's going to be the best deal for your kids >> as long as with with the asterct that you guys are continue to be responsible and continue to invest for all of this to move forward, right?

>> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We're following the baby steps and I just didn't know >> um morally is what I'm saying. If I should I mean [laughter] I hear what you're saying. Yeah. morally, if the kids are going to get it anyway, how can we maximize the money for the kids?

>> Correct. >> The baby steps. >> How old are your kids, Jennifer?

>> Nine and 13. >> Okay. Yeah.

>> Now, the the the other thing the other thing is this. Okay. Um, I'll just

sidebar for a second. I mean, you're fresh in the middle of all this and you've got all the emotion around and everything. Who who who passed away?

>> A grandparent. >> Okay. All right. And so, let me tell you what the grandparent did not mean.

Okay. >> They did not mean that one of your children has all kinds of problems later

and they're addicted to heroin and so you hand them a million dollars which would cause them to overdose and die.

>> That is not what the grandmother meant.

And so you're not morally obligated to

violate common sense

>> with this inheritance process. So, I'm just going to extrapolate this way out into the future somewhere. Okay.

>> You're talking about like in your nine-year-old is 49 >> and they're misbehaving and you're going to fund that with his grandmother's money because granny said 50 years ago that that was a good idea. No, that's not what she meant.

>> Right. >> She wanted to be a blessing is what she meant. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. And being a blessing is not giving money to someone that's misbehaving. So, I'm I'm I'm not going to become a control freak over it. I'm not saying that. But I don't want this verbal obligation to go crazy and turn you into

some kind of codependent thing 40 years from now either. Um, and I've seen that happen. I don't think that's going to happen, but you're trying to be you're being very careful to do what Granny said, and that's a good thing, but let's just understand Granny's heart was to be a blessing. It wasn't to uh the thing.

So, good good question. We appreciate you calling. Very good.

Rachel, that goes back to the thing that we've taught for years and it's good to remind everybody um that money

doesn't fix things, it magnifies things.

>> So, it magnifies the good and it magnifies the bad. So, today that money

is a lot of money and it magnifies good because they're working a good plan.

She's got a good heart. She's trying to be honorable to her grandmother.

>> Yeah. and so on. And all of that's good.

So that good is being magnified by this.

And my point is is that sometimes you get out there a few years, there's some bad things going on >> decades later is what you're saying. >> Decades later. And if you throw money at bad situations, it magnifies that too.

>> Yes. >> So whatever you do, money's not good.

Money's not bad. It magnifies what's already there >> in every one of us. The bad things in every one of us, the good things in every one of us. >> And so if you're a giver and you're generous, you get money. You become a philanthropist. You know, I if you've got uh a temper problem and you get money, you become a complete raaholic and a bully, right? If you've got and so

money magnifies, it makes you more of what you already >> that up. Yeah. >> It makes you more of what you already are. >> That's right. >> And so, and that's going to be true of granny's money 40 years from today.

>> Yeah. >> And it's true of granny's money today.

>> And so, it's a good question by >> and it's a d and it's a it's a I mean, I would almost put the word dangerous tool in the world. Like you have to be very very careful with it. I mean, we just talking about scripture less. There's as many warnings about wealth. Yes.

>> And you know what I mean? Like it's a it's a you got to be careful with this stuff because it'll mess with you. Um so the the working on the character of who you are >> is as big of a deal as the money that you're making in your investments because >> it's interesting that the things that can bring you the greatest blessings also have the power. >> That's right.

It's a double-edged sword, right? I mean, you put anything in there. >> Money, sex, power, >> fame, anything. Yes, it's a it's a double-edged sword.

>> Yeah, you got to be careful.

>> So, you just got to decide how you're going to walk from that point forward.

So, Jennifer, that's a beautiful question, and you're really wise to ask it. You ask it in a very good way, and it's very, very, very, very dialed in.

So, in the book, The Legacy Journey, um,

which is probably my worst selling book or one of them, um, but it's one of my favorite >> that was more than enough. It's one of my favorite more than enough. By far the worst. Yeah. [laughter] It was It wasn't even close to enough. But um but the uh

uh Legacy Journey, we talk a lot about wealth and through the lens of scripture. It's the only book I did that's uniquely Christian. If you're not a Christian and you read it, you're going, "Who is this guy?" But yeah, because it's it's all scripture and it's all laid out exactly. The the warnings on wealth are all in there. And we talk about is it okay to be wealthy >> from a spiritual standpoint? And um part

of that is is that those of us that are people of faith that are believers, we understand we don't own it.

We're just managing it. And so I just manage more than somebody else manages.

That's all wealth is. And so, but if you if you actually feel if you take the heart position of I own it, then that's where wealth really can start to screw with you from a spiritual perspective, start to mess you up. And so, but certainly we know that rich people are all not going to hell. That is not a scriptural thing.

That's a toxic version. It's people trying to teach theology on Tik Tok. Never get your theology from Tik Tok. That's a bad idea.

Matter of fact, you probably shouldn't get anything from Tik Tok, including us. But we're there. And so, um, yeah.

if you want to learn more about that kind of stuff and look at the lens of that of is it okay? Because sometimes people are worried about becoming wealthy uh like they did something wrong because there's a portion of our culture that wants to yell at you, the socialists and so forth that you did something wrong and you didn't do anything wrong. You just helped a lot of people. That's the only way you get money.

It's the only way it works. So good show Rachel. >> Well done. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

>> Heat. Heat.

[music]

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## 77. Get in the Driver’s Seat of Your Own Life | April 28, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I am

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and we'll be taking your calls and the lines are open so give us a call at88255225.

All right, first up we're going to Little Rock, Arkansas and we have Dylan on the line. Hi Dylan.

>> Hi. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Well, um I'm being kind of in a

situation and I'm trying to figure out how to dig myself out of a hole.

>> All right. So, what's going on?

>> So, um I'm 28. You know, I'm married,

got uh two kids, a 5-year-old and a three-year-old. Um about 3 years ago, we

were kind of in a situation. Um we were

renting a house. It was just disgusting.

It was mold infested. Um our second was

on the way and we decided to buy a house

and it was not really a great time to buy, but we didn't really have an option. Um, I don't feel like we've

really bought out of our means. It's just been a lot of things happening leading into it. >> Okay. >> And then attacking stuff on top of it.

Um, bought the house for about 149,000.

Um, we were doing good. My son got really sick, started, you know, developing seizures.

>> Um, we fought that for several weeks.

Destroyed the nest egg that I had put back for us. Um, missing work, trying to stay caught up on bills.

Um, we ended up falling behind on the mortgage and I had to refinance it for a higher interest rate.

>> Um, and a longer term and every year the

the payments just steadily gone up and up and up. Um, we've got some vehicle

payments and some other loans and stuff like that that have just kind of tacked on top of it and we're not necessarily like extremely behind. I'm I'm running

about a month behind right now, but I can't seem to get caught up >> to get ahead. Yeah. Yeah. You sound

tired and the situation which you laid out to us, it's a lot. There's you have a lot >> uh that you guys are juggling. Okay. So, how much are you making um per year?

>> So, me, I'm making right around 82,000 a

year. Okay. Um, my wife just started a new job and roughly what she's making

supposed to be around 35,000 a year, but she just started. >> Okay. >> And she gets paid once a month and we don't even know what a full paycheck of hers is going to look like just yet.

>> Okay. So, so she's not received a paycheck from that yet. That's what you're saying. Okay. Um, okay. So,

household income per month that's going to hit your account. I know you don't know from your wife, but if you know what she's making, I mean, so you guys probably are going to hit around 10K, would you say?

>> Not quite. I'm I'm bringing home roughly

$4,400 a month after taxes. And

>> 44, >> but you make 82, >> right? So that's with a they uh give us

a tool bonus that's like $1,600 um after taxes and health insurance and

everything. I'm supposed to be bringing home around 1,500 before taxes and I'm bringing home right at about 1,100 to,200. So between 44 and I guess maybe

a little bit more >> per week. Did you get a big tax refund?

>> No. >> In April. Okay. Are you are they pulling

anything out for retirement?

>> Uh I did put a stop on it. I was putting in around 9%. Um, but then I found out

the company doesn't start matching until after the first year. So I was like, well, I could use the money now. So I put a stop to it and um, so now I'm just

>> Yeah. >> bringing home whatever I get after taxes.

>> Okay. I would double check. That's >> There's something missing here. You're missing about $20,000.

>> Yeah, that feels super low. That's like half of your income going to taxes and healthcare. And I don't think that's the case. >> So I would So I would double check that.

Um, I would talk to your HR department.

I mean, I I would I would just I would look through I mean, you just filed taxes and we just passed tax season, so you should know. But, um, but for you guys, so it's basically like if she brings home two grand a month, 6,400.

So, what do you So, debt, um, let's talk

about the cars. You said you have two car payments. How much do you owe on the cars? >> Yeah. Um, her car we owe uh, right around 12 to 13,000. I'm not 100% cuz

it's been kind of her thing. Um, I let

her take care of her car, she pays the insurance, and then pretty much everything else just falls on me. I take care of everything else. Um, my truck

payment uh was kind of stupid. We

started talking about it. I needed a truck for the things that I was doing on a little side job that I was trying to help a friend with. So, I bought a truck and uh >> for a side job for your friends.

>> You're such a good friend, Dylan.

>> How How much does this truck cost?

>> Um $45,000.

>> God almighty, >> Dylan. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it was at the time I felt like I could afford it. >> You could You can't. >> Okay. How much could you get for it today if you just went and sold it and you guys became a onecar family?

>> What if you just went crazy? What could you get for it? I would say maybe 28,000 because I went in upside down and then bought an extended warranty on top of it.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I I

>> So, um Okay. So, you got the two car loans. Keep going. What What do you guys have in credit card debt?

>> Um I don't really have any credit card debt. I got about $800. Does your wife?

>> No. As far as I'm aware.

>> Okay. So, that's another that's another flag here. Dylan, you guys aren't you you you don't really know what's going on in your household >> between you and her. The two adults.

No, no, Dylan. The two adults >> that are supposed to be in charge of taking care of a household and these two kids. You guys don't know what's going on. Like you don't know what's going on with each other.

You can't >> you tell you said that you're w that's her responsibility. The car and she just takes care of that. And then I'm over and I'm like >> are you two roommates? Like >> no.

And and and part of that honestly though, Dylan, part of the synergy is that you guys are so scattered.

situation. You're not coming together and talking about this. That's that's the that's one of the benefits of getting married is you have two adults sitting in the room with two different brains that you actually get to lean on each other and talk. and you guys are making decisions in vacuums and you're making them urgently in in in desperate situations which usually always equals

bad financial decisions. And so >> cuz bro, a a a wife with one ounce of

care about her husband would have said, "Please don't buy a truck that you can't afford >> for your friend buddy's neighbor's roommates's dog." Like, you know what I mean?

And it it's kind of my own fault. Like I it's not your fault. I can honestly say it's her like really um

>> pushing it to be this way. It's been the way that I was raised. >> All right. The way you were raised sucks. Okay. So, let's do this.

>> Starting today, you sit down with your wife and you apologize and say, "I've wronged you. I have left you out in the cold. I've tried to do all this myself and I'm doing a bad job and I keep digging us a deeper and deeper and deeper hole. And until you take control,

like the only thing that happened to you in this is that your kid had seizures.

And God bless anybody who's going through their kid being sick. You guys didn't have to buy a house. You didn't have to buy a truck. You didn't have to just make your wife like you deal with this on your own. You've got to You don't even know what's on your own paycheck, brother. You have to get in the driver's seat of your own life.

Yeah, I'm I'm going to own this thing.

>> So stay on the line and Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you guys a year of every dollar cuz our goal for you, the very first step, Dylan, together tonight, sit down with your wife, open up that app, start plugging some numbers in, and use some of the content in there to start creating a step, which are the baby steps. You need to get a $1,000 emergency fund, and then you guys need to start attacking this debt. It's eating up your income. You have to get out of debt, and you do nothing with your life.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Up next, we have Andy in Min Minneapolis. Hey Andy, welcome to the show. Oh. Uh oh, hold on.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Hi. Absolutely. How can we help today?

I am recently divorced. I left a 15-year

abusive marriage and I'm just figuring out my own finances for the first time in my adult life. And my question is kind of about my kids, though. I have 12year-olds who are incredible entrepreneurs, started their first business 5 years ago, are starting additional ones this year, and they're doing well financially. And I'm wondering how to teach them and guide them about finances when I am so new to this myself.

>> What are they doing?

>> Well, a few years ago they started a beverage business and they sell beverages at events and concerts and

like vendor shows. And now one is starting a 3D printing business and one is starting um a science facts YouTube

and channel and app and stuff.

>> Gosh. Good for them, Andy.

>> I'm trying to get my kids to pick up dog poop in the backyard. This is incredible. >> Well, they don't do that either, but I'm excited about it. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, are you asking

specifically like how they manage the money they're making or is it just more an overall question of hey, like what >> the money that they're making because they understand business expenses and budgeting, but they are earning thousands of dollars and I don't know how to guide them other than just >> put it in a bank account and don't make tons of big purchases. I just haven't had the capacity to >> learn more to teach them.

>> Totally. Gosh, so impressive. Um, well,

you know, the way I look at it with my kids, I have an 11-year-old. She's my oldest. And so, we're starting to talk a little bit more beyond what I'm about to tell you, but I think just starting with the basics of them practicing the three

big buckets of money, which is giving, saving, and spending. And when you think about it as adults, that's basically all we can do with money, right? you can be more sophisticated within those buckets, but like that's >> that's it. Um, and so being able to do

all three, >> if you're an adult and you can do all three, well, you're a pretty well-rounded person with money. I would say you have a pretty healthy grasp on it. It's when people get to the extremes that it becomes difficult, right? they spend everything they make and they're broke or they save everything and they become hoarders and they're not fun enjoyable people to be around cuz they're just obsessed with you know keeping money like it um they're not generous people that way so I think the

>> teaching them and let letting them experience all three is going to be big and so I mean we take kind of the old school approach um which is what we tell adults to do is you know give some of your money have a 10% like hey whatever you make 10% of it needs to go somewhere there. And that can be at a local church if you're there. It could be at something that they're passionate about, some type of nonprofit, whatever it looks like. But >> but I think, you know, cultivating the spirit of one of the first things we do is we're givers.

Like we give and >> there's something in that habit that I think is so beautiful. Um I think saving is really big. I mean, they're getting I mean they'll be 16 here, you know, before you know it. And so I'm like, I don't know if there's a really big purchase that they can be working towards, like a car, >> and I don't know if they save for half, you match half.

I don't know what that looks like, but that could be that could be a really good tangible goal.

Which would be like a bigger purchase like a car >> and then letting them enjoy some of it and then letting, you know, having a percentage that they enjoy some of it. I mean, they are 12, you know, and they're making great money. So if there's something fun they want to buy, >> um, then that's great, too, right? So I think not being legalistic about it, but I think the three rhythms of that give, save, spend, >> I think is going to be really big.

And and that's more the tactical side of money, but there's also >> the emotional side of that contentment and that, you know what I mean? Like there's the emotional side of money.

>> And and I I'll just tell you, I wouldn't tell you to do something I don't do in my own house. My 10-year-old, she actually works a lot. Um, she's always

looking for ways to make more money. And my I have a a recent 16-year-old who since he was 12, he's been saving up for the the truck he just bought.

>> And so, um, but we just put it in a regular checking. I mean, regular savings account. >> And even for my son, my wife connected it to a till account. I don't even know what that is, but that's how she pays him and puts it in there. And um but we

don't mess with high yield savings accounts or any of that kind of stuff for for our kids.

>> When you say they make thousands, >> another >> Do they make 3,000 or they make

>> Okay. Well, it's been I think 8,000 each

overalls like for the past few years, but the one has like 5,000. And he asked me about investment accounts the other day. I'm like, I have no idea. So the line the line the standard line is the biggest investment you can make right now is in you.

>> And so let's save up. We're going to pay cash for a car. We're going to put some money away for schooling if we want to end up doing that. If you want to start this as if you graduate from high school and you want decide you want to go full-time into entrepreneurship, you're going to need some seed money.

And so the line that I use in my house is the the biggest investment you can make right now is not in market returns. It's in you.

>> Yeah. Because for a lot of investing it is for a long-term it's a long-term mindset like you know especially retirement investing you're going to touch it till you're 59 right and a 12-year-old doesn't even be thinking about that where the math is fun and for them to understand logically. My parents did that. They taught us about mutual like this is what this can do.

>> But the reality is you're going to need cash on hand to buy a car at 16. You're going to need cash for college. You're going to need cash. My parents even told me when you graduate college and that transition from college to the real world, whether you need first month's rent, last month's rent for your first apartment, you got to buy, you know, furniture.

Like there there is in the next 10 years of his life or her life, >> they're going to need cash and majority of people don't even have that. And so they end up, you know, in the negative as they start adulthood. So having that there where compound interest and everything, they're going to be fine if they start investing at 2122, right?

so I really, >> in my mind, I wouldn't because I wouldn't even put money in like, oh, buy a stock here and watch it grow because we don't even teach single stocks. Like I wouldn't even get in the habit of that. So I would have a tangible thing that he that they're saving for um that they're invested in. And usually the car is it for most teenagers.

Uh, which is great. And then, hey, where can we continue to um enjoy some of this and give some of it? And Andy, I'll say to you, I mean, kudos to you. We always say more is caught than taught, which is so true.

in your situation, what you've just walked through, as you just flippantly kind of said it at the beginning, like I left I left an abusive marriage and I'm on my own. I'm like, you you are incredible.

has the humility to learn and to ask and

be curious about all of this. Like they're going to learn so much from you too without you even saying a word. So your example already of what you set for them is beautiful. >> Yeah.

and and bring them in. Bring them into light bill conversations and bring them in. Like if you want to do a basic run through of your budget, your your kids are pretty businesssavvy. Show them what stuff cost.

And you'll see your kids start to turn the lights off. And you'll see your kids looking at like they'll they'll bicker with each other like it's at 74. Let's move it to 76 so we can say like you'll see that kind of stuff happening. But let them watch you figure it out.

time, but a couple of times a year, I'll hand my tithing check to one of my kids.

I want them to see that check >> and they'll look at me all wideeyed and I'll say, "It's not our money." Right?

And they're like, "Oh, oh, yeah, yeah." Right? But that I don't like showing anybody that stuff, but that's how they're going to learn, "Oh, my my mom and my dad put their money where their mouth is." >> Right? So, bring them into some of those conversations. are you like with the kids like do I share income and all?

>> My kids don't know how much money I make. >> Um I don't give them like cuz and I don't tell them I my son knows that I've got a college account. He does not know how much money's in that account because it's not his cuz he'll start he'll start spending it. >> Oh dad. >> Um but but I um I do show them how much

stuff costs >> and that that is that's been really eye

opening for everybody.

>> And my daughter's 10. She's starting to come into those conversations with us.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. I I think it is I mean that that 12, 13, 14, they can start to grasp things and if they know how much it takes >> to run a household and be an adult from car insurance to health insurance, life insurance to the life, Netflix, Disney,

all these things that we have bundled together, here's how much this is. Yeah.

My son the other day just said, "Hey dad, I think I'm going to drop out of high school right now, get a job at McDonald's and start like I just want to start making money and whatever." And he had factored in rent. And I was like, "Okay, what about this and this and light bill?" And he just goes, "All right, I'll stay in school." Right?

>> But it's just it's it's it's part of their growth process. But you aren't less than just because you don't have this stuff all dialed in. Let them watch mom learn. And that'll be the greatest gift you could give them.

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Well, that is so normal for so many people because normal is broke. And listen, you don't have to live that way.

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Do not live broke. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's head to Phoenix and we have Lauren on the line. And hi Lauren, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Okay, so my husband and I started the Every Dollar app a couple months ago. Um he started listening to you guys and then got me on board. Um and we ended up

selling our truck and um taking out a

personal loan for the balance and getting about 50,000 knocked off of our debt. Like go

>> Yeah. So, we were super proud of that.

Um, and now we are actually evaluating if we should sell our house and use the profit to wipe out the rest of our debt and just get a clean slate, rent for a couple months, build up an actual down payment the right way. Um, and just be

able to kind of fasttrack getting debtree.

So, um, we had a significant amount of debt. So, I can kind of list it out. our our monthly income is 11,700 roughly. Um

he's flat rate mechanic and I'm a nail tech, so it varies. >> Okay. >> Um but that's about what we're bringing in a month. And then we've got um his

student loan balance is 3,650.

Um we've got a credit card for 3600.

Um our tax balance for this year is 5277.

Um the personal loan for the truck balance ended up being 7500.

>> Okay. >> Um we've got a solar loan attached to the house for 31,300

which we're hoping will be assumed by the next owner. Um that would be the goal. And then uh my mil net balance or

my student loan balance is about 47,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And >> you had me I was like, "Oh, you're going to be able to do this." And then it's like, oh, 707 more,000 $75,000.

>> But you guys, before tax and stuff, you guys are running what? Probably 130.

>> Um, I think so. My husband would know that better than you. >> Yeah. 13140. >> Do you have little ones?

>> Yes, we have Well, we have three. We have 15, um, 12, and 10 year olds. So,

>> Okay. And how much is your mortgage a month?

>> A lot. It is $3,32.

And we in two years have only knocked down 10 grand on principal on our house.

>> Sure. >> So we're like paying interest.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not it's not it's not crazy though. Um >> in relation to your uh income. I thought you were going to say it was going to be like a $5,000 mortgage or $6,000

mortgage. So it's it's it's um so yeah, your house I don't think Lauren is the problem. Um, I mean genuinely like we say 25% and you guys are a little bit above that, but I think >> um I think over time you guys will get within that range pretty quickly.

>> Um, >> okay. >> What's what's the opportunity? >> Where we're at >> Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. >> I think where we're at is we still owe $412,000 on this house that we're not

necessarily wanting to like our kids are getting older. They're getting into their teens and we're kind of thinking about like the next 5 to 10 years. Do we want to put another 400,000 into this house that we don't need >> this much space, you know, either? So, it's like to me to wipe the debt out and start over. >> Lauren, that's the question. Like, if if you don't love this house and you don't want to live there and y'all want to downsize, but that's awesome.

>> My gut tells the house. It's just a lot of houses for no more kids in a few years. Oh, >> I I part of me thinks that the grind is

what y'all need. >> Mhm. Okay.

>> Um that that just getting up every day

and figuring out, hey, can he take can he go work in somebody else's shop on Saturdays and can he and I and all this is hard because y'all have kids entering in those ages when you got a 15-year-old, you start counting the days, right? Like we got three years and then he's gone, right? >> And so I get all of that. Um, if you told me, you know what, dude, we're going to sell this house anyway when when one of our kids leaves and we're going to just going to be four of us, then yeah, sure, put on the market and sell it.

Especially if that wipes out all of your debts and whatever.

>> But maybe not. Maybe not. Um, but >> well, we assumed it. That's how we got it.

>> We bought the house and it it's kind of a thing in the in our area. Um, >> but I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about when I spoke to a realtor this morning, she said, "We're probably not going to get close to what we would need to in order to cover realtor fees and closing costs because it's apparently a buyer market right now." And so our >> How long have you been in the house? >> Profit was >> We've only been here for two years in this house.

>> Oh, so you you you don't have equity in it. >> Yeah, >> not much.

>> She said we could probably She said we could probably sell it for 460 to 470 and we owe 412. So that would pretty much you know. >> Okay. So Lauren, that would be the tradeoff. So listen, if you if you guys decided to do it do that now. Um you

wouldn't get you would you make a ton?

What would you make on because you said you would barely cover all the fees, the real fees and everything. So you really wouldn't make a ton to pay off the present debt. It would be more of a future of saying, "Oh, we only have to to pay off a $300,000 mortgage versus a $450." And you guys feel like you can swallow that easier, right? stomach that easier. Um, so what I would what I would

suggest though is I think that's a that's a long-term problem that you're seeing and feeling that actually may be relieved once you're debtree from consumer debt.

>> Yeah. And and you're going to have to turn around and get rent a house for $2,500 for five people minimum, right?

Probably $3,000. So >> yeah, that would save us a little bit.

>> Yeah, it would save you a little bit, but I I don't think that's the big rock here. The big rock. I mean, if you told me you were going to be able to save 3,000 bucks a month or you had $100,000 in equity, that would make sense. But this isn't moving your position anywhere. It's it's >> in fact, it's making your life more complicated >> because you guys have about six grand left after you pay the mortgage. Where is that where is all that going?

>> Um, we just re like I said, we just started the every dollar out. We were eating our money as they >> were.

Yeah. So, >> and we've gotten better on it. But, >> yeah. >> So, what I would say is what's crazy about when you look all this out and I just m I did a rough map real quick of a calendar for you all.

But I'm like, if you could find three grand a month, that's finding in every dollar the expenses, which actually probably 2,000 of it could be sitting in there that you don't know about when you just actually shore everything up and say we're not spending anything. And then you guys go make some extra cash on the side. And in that example, it would just be an extra thousand bucks of you working a little bit more or him working, you know, a Saturday or two a month.

knocked out, your credit card debt knocked out, >> and his student loan debt all by August.

Like, if you threw a three grand at this stuff every single month, >> and then you're down to the 7500 um and you can knock that out in two months, right? And then you're looking at the solar and yours student loan debt which will be those will take longer for sure. But I'm just saying a lot of these ankle biter stuff if you guys really really >> tighten up and say hey we are going to spend nothing.

>> We are going to work extra and we're going to put three to four grand more than what we're doing today on this debt. You know you you know two two and

a half years you guys are out.

>> You know something we do in my house.

Okay. Um, I actually part of my kids uh

I don't use the word allowance, but part of the things we pay them for is each kid does one meal a week.

>> And so it's tough if you're working nail tech all day, you're you're exhausted, your husband's underneath machines all day. That that's have your you got three kids. Have each one of them be responsible for a meal. Pay them each 10 bucks a week for cooking or whatever.

They get to earn a little tiny little bit of money, but y'all save a jillion dollar by not eating out all the time.

>> Yeah, we've done a lot better this month, but yeah, it's still pretty significant. Like, we need to cut it out completely. It's just kind of We're trying to ease into it so we don't >> Don't ease into it. Cannonball.

Cannonball, baby. >> For sure. Yeah. And And you know what, Lauren? I would I would just I would grind it out because you guys if you guys had $300,000 of equity and you were like we want to downsize or something.

You know, you can make it make sense, but right now it doesn't because you don't have the equity, which you guys are barely going to even just break even on a problem. Again, that is so far in the future. I would fix this stuff in two 2 and 1/2 years. Um and then you

guys look up 5 years owning the home. If there's some equity and you still want to downsize, then I would make that move.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> All right. Next up is Andrew in Salt Lake City. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

>> So, I'm 22 years old and I make $120,000

a year and I have been since August, but I've been in my career for about two and a half years now. Um, and I kind of have a car question. So, I currently drive or I used to drive an older Toyota Tacoma.

Um, now I had that and then I had a 24

Corolla hybrid. Um, so it's kind of like my commuter. I drive about 25 to 30,000 miles a year. Um, but I ended up selling

my truck because it ended up getting into an accident. I sold it for 500 bucks more than I bought it for. Um, and

I was kind of wondering, you know, if I could be able to get into maybe another truck or a 4Runner type vehicle just cuz I got three dogs. I like to go camping, fishing a lot. That's like what I my main hobby. Um, I have about 25,000 in

savings and 25,000 in investments, 401k,

Roth IRA. Um, yeah. Kind of curious what

I would be able to do.

>> And so, what are you currently driving right now?

>> A Corolla hybrid. >> Okay, >> bro. That car is going to just as on the side. Uh, my wife got a Corolla right before we got married and I drove it forever. Um, and I just said, "As soon as this thing dies, I'll get myself something else." I finally gave up. That car will never die. You'll have that Corolla till the end of time.

forever. >> I know. And that's why Andrew's like, I don't want it. >> And I drive >> Yeah. I I drive for I drive a lot for work, so I get paid about 75 cents a mile. >> Basically free. >> Yes. >> But it's it's about $19,000 on the note.

Um, which I haven't paid a dime toward because >> Oh, you owe 19,000 on the Corolla?

>> Yes, I do. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. my >> if I owned it outright, I think it'd be a different story. But >> I I would pay that off before I bought anything else. And I know that's like, dude, I'm an outdoorsman. I know that's like a kick in the teeth, but >> running your one getting laid off or you're one they're going to reduce the mileage or you're you're one you're current

situation is based on somebody else's decision.

And we wouldn't have jobs if people didn't weren't faced with that every single day. >> Yeah. How much How much is it worth?

>> Um uh my trade in value is about 26,000 right now. >> Oh, it's worth 26,000. Well, if you could figure out a way to to finagle

selling it and putting a little bit of money of your 25,000. You got to pay it off and have a little bit to put towards

something and get a used paid off car um

or truck. I I would consider that if you

wanted to do that. Um but the thing is is I you're on you're technically on baby step two, right? So when you're working the Ramsay plan. >> Yeah. >> Uh and if you paid off the car, you'd have $6,000 and a $25,000 paid off car

technically, right? Because what you said it was worth, you get 25 for. Is that what you said? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yep. >> So if that's the case, you got $6,000 in

savings and a $25,000 card. If you wanted to trade the $25,000 car for a $25,000 truck, you could do that, right?

Like if you wanted to get something that you wanted, I'd be okay with that. And then you got to beef up that $6,000 emergency fund >> to a probably a threemonth emergency fund for baby step three and then go on for investing all of it. But no, you don't need a >> brand new truck and I don't think you need anything worth more than the car you're currently driving once it's paid off.

>> I agree. Um, I guess my question after that would be, uh, for my mileage per year, being like a high mileage driver and essentially being forced to for work, how do you think that factors into

like the, you know, how people talk about the affordability of vehicles and kind of how I'm essentially bottlenecked into a certain type of vehicle because gas mileage >> because of your work, they don't pay for fuel. >> Yeah. Well, that's going to have to be a decision that you make. I don't know, Andrew. Do you want to pay for the truck mileage, you know, and and the gas for a truck? >> Yeah, >> that's that that would be your decision.

Can you do that in your monthly budget? Is that worth it for you?

>> Well, 75 cents a mile should cover that, right?

>> Yeah, it covers it. Um, >> I mean, that that's what that money's for. >> Right now, I'm Yeah, I'm profiting about

I would say $35 a gallon of gas. Are you trying to figure out how to keep the Corolla and get a truck?

>> That's what I wanted to do originally as that's the setup I had before. >> I wouldn't do that until you >> Yeah. I wouldn't do that until you paid off the Corolla. >> I wouldn't do it till you paid off the Corolla. And >> And paid cash for a truck. >> Paid cash for a truck. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And And by the way, dude, I like until last year, my daily driver to work

was an ' 06 Tundra that got like one and a half miles a gallon, but it was awesome. And it's will again will go to the end. You're a Toyota guy like me, it'll go to the end of time, right? And so I I wouldn't use this as an opportunity to upgrade cars and get a newer Tacoma or get a newer for like >> if you're going to buy a camping car, I would buy a camping car, right?

But even then, I wouldn't do it until after I'd paid off that Corolla. You you I I think you say you're 22 or 23.

>> Yep. >> Okay. I'm trying to picture myself at 22

or 23 making 100 120 grand, which I wasn't even anywhere near that world. I can't imagine that you don't think feel like you're rich and you are for a 22-y old.

>> The You'd be surprised. I I really don't. >> Okay. Well, he if you if you're getting

75 cents a mile and you're driving and you're making 120 grand, you're doing insanely well for 22 years old. I want you to listen to two people like years after 22.

You're literally one email away from your boss saying, "Hey, we're going we we can't afford it because of conflicts in the Middle East. So, we're going to go down to 25 cents a mile >> or or we're cutting jobs. >> We're cutting jobs or whatever.

>> And man, you're just so exposed right now, even though it doesn't feel like it." >> Mhm. >> Yep. So, Andrew, we would uh pay off your Corolla today because you have the money for it. And then beyond that, if you want to trade the Corolla for something else, you can do that. Or if you want to save up on the side to get a truck or a camping thing and you want to, you can just pay cash and buy used.

>> And this sounds cheesy, man, but if if you look at your actual life, I remember one time we we when my wife and I moved

from Houston and I didn't want to move cuz I was like, man, we go to Astros games, we go to concerts and all. And she said, all right, how many baseball games did we go to last year? And I was like I was like, "Okay, two." And she said, "How many trips when we were living across the state did we go back to Houston to see games?" Two. Right.

And so it was like, if you look at your life and you actually go fishing once a month, go rent a truck. Go rent one and

drop it off and it will be 150 or 200 bucks and call it good. Turn the keys back in and keep your life, keep your cash to yourself. >> Yeah. Or, god forbid, just take the Corolla. >> Take the Corolla, pile the dogs in. I mean I mean honestly >> put your tent in the truck and call it man. Yeah. Enjoy your life. >> Yes. Absolutely. I know when you put so much so much of your money and especially you starting off Andrew like you got um $25,000 in retirement which

is great. $25,000 you're doing you're doing some great stuff. But when you start to shift that focus to more um

consumerbased, I want this depreciating asset, >> especially a car, right, that you're like, okay, I'm going to just add on add on. Um it you're just just watch the

habits that you're starting to build at 22 is what I would say. That would be my word of caution of just instead of kind of just figuring it out and just getting what you need to kind of like take over, you know, have for your life and be like, "Yes, I need this car. Not so much great for work, but great for my leisure activities or whatever." That's fine. But um but yeah, buying the two cars right now, uh I don't know.

It just feels >> Here's my promise. 42year-old you will wish when you're you're married, you got some kids, 42-year-old you will wish you had a whole bunch of money in the bank, not two cars when you're 22.

think about 42-year-old you. You'll be able to go on some wicked awesome camping trips when you got cash.

>> Yep. For sure. But you're and you're almost there, Andrew. Again, hear us say like you're you're on the right track.

dominating, >> but but again, pay off that car today.

You have the money. Do not be paying a car loan with interest on a depreciating asset for another month. Don't do it.

So, just pay it off. You'll have the six grand. And then actually, when you start working with cash, Andrew, >> it kind of changes your mindset. It makes you think twice about something, right? When you have debt and you're like, "Okay, I can afford that payment here or this thing over here cuz it's just these small payments monthto month.

It doesn't feel like a big deal." But when you actually start living within your means and spending your own money, it actually changes the game. and and actually may change your mind once you have it paid off and you're like, man, I don't know if I want to spend or save up for another car. I kind of want to save up and start investing or doing something else with this money.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney. So give us a call at

888255225.

All right, let's go to Minneapolis. I'll pronounce it correctly this hour. Uh and we have Monica on the line. Hi Monica,

welcome to the show.

>> Hi. I'm a huge fan.

>> Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in.

How >> we're a huge fan of yours Monica.

So, what's up?

>> So, I have a question. We're just kind of having a debate, my husband and I, about how much I should be spending a month. And I want to be within budget,

but I'm kind of confused on what's acceptable and what's not for >> less than your budget.

>> Tada. >> Right. There you go.

>> Solved.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, I was just I'm just messing with you. What's What's your confusion? Me and Rachel love solving marital disputes. So, we're going to solve this. >> We love spenders like you, Monica. We're glad you called.

>> Well, I used to not be a spender because I had no money.

>> And then we had children and they need

all the things. >> Oh, are you one of those moms that likes your kids to have shoes and stuff?

>> Yeah. >> Boo. Boo.

>> Yeah. I just feel like the kids expenses just pop up. you know, our oldest, >> she she's rough on her tennis shoes and the next thing you know, like she needs a new pair of shoes. >> Totally. Totally. >> So, what's your husband upset about?

>> I do spend too much. But that's what I asked. I said, "Well, do you want me to stop going to the personal trainer, which we spend too much money on, but it is really beneficial. She's more of like a physical therapist and has helped my back get a lot better." >> Okay.

>> Um said, "Nope, not that." He's like, "You don't you're not into like brand names and all that, so I'm not worried about what you spend on clothes and um not worried about hair salon. You can always go there." And I was just like, "So what then?" >> It's almost like he just has this random feeling.

>> Well, well, I am spending too much though. Um why do you say that?

>> Our house is our house our house is paid off. Our cars are paid off. I don't know

how much insurance costs and things like that. And I because I'm kind of a child when it comes to like that end of who's in charge with our relationship, but um

I'm spending 12,000 a month. And I know 2,000 is on groceries, 150 is on the

gym, 100 uh 480 is the uh personal trainer, 200 a month on hair, and then I

I don't have a tally on all the things that >> there's a lot left. Yeah. Where's the other >> $10,000?

Right. I know. I'm racking my brain. And I think it's I mean, I garden, so we buy a lot of stuff for the garden. And And when I say garden, it's it yes, some flowers, but it's also a lot of vegetables and stuff, but >> Yeah. But we do that, too. And my wife collects seeds and like >> Mhm. >> I don't know how big your >> garden. How much you guys make a year?

>> Um, almost 400.

>> And you're completely debtree.

>> Mhm.

My my my big concern here is that you don't know where $10,000 a month is going >> because y'all are like I'm going to say this nicely, but y'all are wealthy.

Y'all are doing really well.

>> I'm not offended about anything you say.

>> I know. I know. I know. But I know you're a nice person. >> Y'all y'all are doing really well. My concern is it it it's >> I I'm in your husband's camp here that I want my wife to spend what she wants to spend. I want her to feel good. I want her to do all those things that make her who she is. And then there's 10,000 more

dollars a month that are unaccounted for. >> And I I'm troubled here that you don't even have a ballpark.

>> You don't seem to have any idea where that money's going.

>> We I I'm that mom that like every

holiday has to be super special, but I know that I I decorate for all of it. We have a trail in our backyard that I decorate for Halloween and then we decorate it for Christmas and we decorate for Easter and their birthdays and >> you're dropping like two grand on something like that and not really thinking much about it >> probably >> like it'll be that kind of stuff that you're doing. Okay.

>> Um Okay. So, you're spending you said 12

grand you guys. What hits your account every month? Probably 30.

>> I don't know. >> Okay. Okay. So, here >> because it's inconsistent. It's a I don't want to get into details, but it's a job. >> Okay, that's fine. Okay. Do you guys >> Well, one month is >> Are you guys intentional with how much you're giving and saving every month?

Y'all have goals?

>> He is super good with that stuff, investments, and things. He showed me paperwork and I think I have dyslexia with numbers, but >> Okay. So, I'm You don't >> You don't. >> Okay. I'm going to have a hot take here.

>> Okay. >> Because of how much you make, considering everything is paid off.

Okay. Y'all have not you have you're you're fine if you're investing. I'm going to pretend, Monica, that you guys are investing in retirement. You have your future is being taken care of. The kids college is being taken care of.

You're giving. I'm going to just assume you're being very responsible people.

>> You're you're at a high bar started >> and then you have, you know, 25 $30,000

left a month. Okay, hot take. if everything else is taken care of. Um, the number doesn't like super throw me off. It's not like you guys can't afford it. >> Here's what's throwing me off. Two things, Monica. >> Number one, you personally don't know where this money's going. There's no line item for Easter. And God forbid

Monica puts for some people, they're going to think you are insane that you're going to put $1,500 for your Easter trail. >> I know, but that's where you're choosing to spend it. And you have it, Monica.

and stick up for you >> 100%. But even even that you said Christmas, Easter, and Halloween, >> if you spend 2,000 bucks a month decorating the trail behind your house, that's 6,000 bucks. You spend double that every month.

>> Okay. So, so that's what I'm saying though is like you you at least if I knew you knew where this money is going and you had a selfch check of like, okay, that that feels right for me. And X, Y, and Z. Everyone values different things.

Everyone throws their one-year-old a birthday party looks like a wedding reception. I don't get why, but people do it and it's fine if you have the money. I'm not mad at you. It's not a moral thing.

And you are allowed to spend some money, but the problem is back. I'm rambling.

One is you don't know where the money's going, Monica. Big problem. If you can map out exactly what's going on, then we can actually have an adult conversation.

And then number two, you don't know what's going on with any of your money.

like you've said you've deferred to your husband three or four different times on this call and that's a problem. That's a problem. >> I think your husband's statement you're spending too much is if I got to the thing beneath the thing of that statement it is >> it's out of control. >> You're immature in this relationship and I'm having to do all this by myself.

>> Yeah. You're more like the child and he's having the parent that's having to take care of he doesn't want to be your dad. He wants to be your husband.

>> Yes. >> And that means you >> you have to be a partner in this. you come to him tonight and say, "I've acted like a child and I'm sorry. I wanted I I

don't have dyslexia with numbers. That's not a thing. I don't know how all the investments work and whatever, but I do know how addition and subtraction works.

I want to know how much we make. I want to go through our statements over the last three months and go line by line. I want to find out where this money's going. And I promise that if we make a budget, I'll stick to it."

>> Okay? and and Monica and it's going to be a good exercise for you because part of handling money if the numbers work like right that's our first big check mark I feel like is like when we look at the data do the numbers work and yes you're not going into debt for this stuff like the numbers work but there's also a spiritual component to money that

you're not being you're not being a great manager of your money you're you're sloppy with it right so again I'm not mad that you're spending money but you're spending it on impulse and what feels good and what I need to do in the moment >> and with no accountability >> and that's not that's not a good character building moment. You need some discipline in it again >> and your husband needs a partner.

>> Yes. Yes. So, all those things combined, Monica, you guys may get to the end of this and say, "Yes, we're still going to spend $1,500 on the trail." And that's fine because that's what you're deciding to spend. But at least you're doing it as an adult with a rational thought behind it as a good manager.

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Up next, we have Bruce in Philadelphia.

Hi, Bruce. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for taking by call. How are you? >> Yes, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> Well, I have a question. Um, I'll give you a little background. I'm 72. I'm retired. I have roughly about 1.3

million. Um, and I also have a

retirement income of about 150 before

taxes. And I'm looking to do some in

well, I've been investing mostly in CDs.

And I don't know if I should continue just rolling over those CDs or going

into something uh a little more

aggressive.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, is the 1.3 in CDs?

>> No, the 1.3 is um some of it is in IAS

and the rest of it Yeah, it's spread out. Yeah, spread some of it spread out into CDs. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Some of the 1.3 How much of the 1.3 is in CDs?

Uh about

500,000. >> Oh wow. Okay.

>> Um and the 150 that you're living off of, is that coming out of the 1.3?

>> Uh some of it is. Most of it's coming from um uh retirement pension and social security. >> Oh, okay. Great. Awesome. Um well, yes.

Short answer is yes, Bruce. I would move for sure that 500. Yes. Into into the

market. Yeah. of investing it. I mean it would be you can look into different types of mutual funds, you can look at index funds. Um but with the market kind of the the rule of 72 just the quick math is investing it usually you double

your money in seven years. So in seven years you would have a million. Seven years later you'd have two million where CDs you're making like >> maybe 3%.

>> Yeah. 3.7.

>> Yeah. I mean, you could move it all into a high yield savings account and make more than that. >> And if you move if you move half a million dollars, somebody will give you three and a half or 4% on that money.

>> Mhm. >> What are you What are you at right now?

Two and three4ers.

>> Can you repeat that? I'm sorry.

>> What What What are you What interest are you generating on those CDs?

>> Uh, some of them are at four. Some I

think >> five. Well, so yeah, so if you think about it, the market >> I mean it's I mean again depending on your it's kind of so volatile I feel like this calendar year but >> overall you're going to on average safe is 10 is 10%. So and that's just safe

right? Some some years I mean the past what two years it was like at 23%. I mean it's just cra it was crazy >> what you can do. So, um, and especially since you don't need the money, right?

Because you would you do want to kind of let it ride out in case you put the money in and if you needed it in 2 months, you know, it takes some out, you know, that wouldn't feel great if it was dropping a little bit, but letting it all kind of just, >> you know, have some time to settle into the market and let the market settle, right? Its ups and downs. Um, I would for sure, Bruce, yes, I would put that uh into the market instead of CDs >> without a doubt.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Or or to put it in a different way, neither Rachel nor I put our money in

have one dollar in a CD.

>> So, it's not it's not like us just telling you something hypothetical. >> And I don't think we've ever once told anyone, no, to put money in CDs either, Bruce. So, yeah, it is um from the track record of what the market's doing, it is safe. And I understand even at your age of being cautious with it, right, and saying like, "Okay, where are we at?" But honestly, 72 still is pretty young.

I'm like, you could if you're in good health, you could Yeah. I mean, seriously. So, um, so no, I would definitely put it in the market. Um, not only because it's the best investment, but also you don't need the money.

The income that you're getting is from pensions and social security. You're not even using most of it. So, if there is a little bit of dip and you don't need to take out as much, it's not going to hurt that bad. So, uh, it's a great question and Bruce, well done.

Uh, >> yeah. Excellent, brother. >> Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

All right, let's go to Tibby in Jacksonville.

welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you guys today?

>> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Um, so I we have kind of an interesting

situation. Um,

we we have about 25,000 in savings. Um, we

the only debt that we have is a travel trailer that we're actively paying off.

Uh, we just paid off my husband's student loans. Other than that, we don't have any other debt aside from our house. And um

through a series of unfortunate events, we I just discovered that we actually have mold growing on the bottom side of

our couch.

>> Oh, throw it away.

>> Well, my question is, do we dip into the

emergency fund for that? Is that something that's worthy of an emergency fund? >> Pull some chairs around. Pull some chairs around. You'll be fine.

>> I know. We have a 10-month-old, though.

>> That makes it even Your 10month old, you're going to get a new couch. Your 10month-old is going to shotgun out of both ends on that new couch

>> and spill milk on it, which is going to cause more mold.

>> You don't want anything nice right now.

No. >> No. No. >> I mean, buy a couch. like we're jo you you for real would not buy a couch. >> I I Well, listen. You have to understand

that it was when my first book went

number one that my wife asked, "Hey, we have a bed frame that you bought off Craigslist for $50 and spray painted.

Can we get a real bed?" So, I'm probably not the best furniture guy in the world to ask, but I would, if it was my house,

pull some couches. I mean, pull some chairs, some shenanigans, sit on the floor with your kid or whatever.

>> And by the way, not having a couch in the living room will >> you'll have more action with your kid on the floor. Y'all will actually go to bed on time and not rock in front of the TV.

It could change your life in a bunch of positive ways. >> Okay, look, >> but that's not why you're calling me. I know. >> Um, all right. Rooms to go sofas from

3.99.

>> I'd be okay if you spend 400 bucks on a rooms to go sofa. I I'll I'll go with Rachel if you have to. >> I know. And you can't you cannot take it out of your emergency fund. You got to take it out of your restaurant budget or something else. >> You got to cash flow the couch. >> That was my my thing. Do >> cash flow the couch. Yep.

>> You have a 10-month old. Don't buy nice stuff. >> Please get a gross like don't get a I say a gross one. I mean it can be it can be new. It doesn't have to be old and used and gross.

A new couch.

But cash flow it out of our monthly income. >> Yes. And a cheap couch. That's how I was trying to say. >> Cheap. Cheap.

>> Okay. We wouldn't go expensive. We're a military family. Things get broken with every move. So, we're pretty we're we're

pretty basic when it comes to our furniture. Anyway, >> get a couch. If you have to get a couch, get one that you'll leave when you move.

Just leave it.

>> We can do that. Yeah, that's okay. Well, and Timmy, you didn't call about this, but you guys have $25,000 in savings. Is that what you said?

>> Yeah, we have a $25,000 emergency fund.

Um, all total like investments between

my IRA mutual.

>> How much is on the camper? How much is left on the trailer?

>> 30. >> Pay it off today.

>> She can't. She They have 25,000.

>> They're close.

>> I know. >> Yeah. Go ahead. The only reason we have that is because of the nature of my husband's job in the Air Force. It's

rather dangerous. So, it makes me feel

much more secure to have that um in the

event of >> something >> the knock at the door. >> Yeah, I get that. >> Does he have life insurance? Do you guys have life insurance?

>> Uh we have it through the military um

right before he was leaving on deployment. That's the other thing. He's currently deployed, so I'm trying to figure all of this out. But right before

he left for deployment is when we were going to start going through Xander and getting quotes and all of that stuff. We just pre-eployment didn't have time to

get that added on there. >> Yeah, I want you guys to do that ASAP.

And on you too, Tibby, if something happened to you, um, and you guys need 10 to 12 times your annual income.

Sometimes with people that have insurance through their companies or through the military, it's not enough.

Um, and so get Term Life. Check out our friends at Xander Insurance because they're an insurance broker that actually shop all different companies to get you the lowest rate. So, um, you guys, yeah, be looking at that for real though because I understand the safety net of wanting that money. It makes total sense.

But also, if you knew that other aspects were being taken care of financially, you would be able to use cash today to help you guys in your present situation get along further faster to wealth building, which would be paying off this debt. Um, so you guys consider that.

You're paying payments on something in interest that's going down in value. So getting rid of that debt is going to be huge for you guys.

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We wish we could get to every call here on the Ramsey Show, but we can't. So, if you have a money question though, we have an answer for your situation. So, you can go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool and it's built and trained on

proven money principles that we've been talking about. I mean, this whole system that they've built has I mean, every answer in there is from the past couple years of shows, all of our books, articles. I mean, anything and everything Ramsey has put out content-wise is in there. And it's wild how personalized it can get because it can it will remember you and your situation, but you can put in specific numbers, all of it, and it will spit out an answer like you have called the Ramsay Show. So get your question um

answered today at Ramseyolutions.com at

the Ask Ramsey uh tool. So you make sure to check it out or if you are listening on podcast or YouTube, we will put a link below. All right, let's head to Bill in Seattle. Hi Bill, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. How are you today?

>> I'm I'm doing good. How are you guys?

>> We are doing great. How can we help?

>> So um my my question to you guys is

whether I should continue moving forward with getting engaged um with my girlfriend, you know, even though I see

her as kind of being financially um irresponsible.

>> Run, Bill. Run. >> No. Stop. >> No, >> I'm just playing. I'm playing.

>> Tell us more. What What does financially irresponsible mean?

>> Um, it means that she uh she still kind of

nickels and dimes us to death. So when it comes to those small expenses like eating out and getting a cup of coffee,

I I think there's very little consideration on her part in terms of how those expenses can accumulate over time.

Um and I guess the other big thing too

is um you know not not a steady source

of income from her hand so that when we

have big expenses like our um like our

animals vet appointments um you know it

usually ends up me sharing the financial burden um more so.

>> Are y'all are you all living together?

>> Yes. So, we are Yeah, I'm a uh that's

>> what this is kind of all about is I'm a 30-year-old living in my girlfriend's parents' basement. >> Oh, there's that. >> Okay, cool.

>> Lead with lead with that next time, brother. >> Um All right. So, how much of this It's

just Listen, it's just two dudes. Rachel happens to be here and like a couple of million people. Just listen in. Okay.

How much of this is you've got to see up close? I don't know

if this is a person I want to spend the rest of my life with.

Cuz here's the thing. I skipped a final

exam to run across campus

because I knew that's a place that my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, would be walking across campus at a certain time, >> right? So, if if it was really that she

spent too much on cups of coffee and didn't work very often and you were head over heels, this was your person, you'd be calling us in 10 years saying she won't get a job and she spent y'all into the poor house. What else is going on that's making you start to question this thing?

Um well, we we've been together for such

a long time and um I think

we we've had our ups and downs, but eventually um I feel like recently in my life, I've gone through uh a stage of of maturity and I and that certainly means financial maturity. And um and I think that is

what I have yet to see from her. um especially in recent times and I know if

I want to take that next step with her that is something that we certainly have to agree upon. >> How old is she?

>> Uh she is 28. >> Okay. >> So it's more of a maturity over on who she is. But what you're seeing and what's coming out is the money side too.

>> Yes. >> And here's Oh, man. This is a double-edged sword. All right, brother. And Rachel, tell me knock me off my pedestal like you're so good at doing. Rachel >> would love to, John. My concern here is a double-edged sword. One, you have somebody who isn't working, is seems to

be content living at home with her parents, whatever, and never has any

money, and continues to rack up expenses. There's that. My honestly, my

bigger concern right now is you are starting to feel like you are better than her.

And that is, man, that is the you're

tilling the soil to plant the seeds for contempt. And contempt is one of the Gottman's four horsemen that will just destroy your relationship. It's you sitting up in the lifeguard tower of a local pool looking down on

sitting with her and saying, "Hey, what's our plan to get out of your parents' basement?" Right? What's your financial future?

What what job are you going to have? How are we what kind of future do we want to build together? And if she won't participate in that, yeah, you've got you've got bigger issues. >> Yeah. Have y'all had conversations, Bill, about it?

>> We recently, three weeks ago, tried to

have a completely clean slate where we,

you know, push everything behind us in the past and we just look forward and we don't bring up anything that happened in the past. And it's it seems like I'm I'm

getting that sense of financial urgency from her. But then it then there's some still those moments where again she you know has a small unnecessary expense or

just yesterday if I may say she had

spent approximately $60 to get us concert tickets. Um, and

it's still those things that occur that

prevent me from um, bring, you know,

giving her my full trust financially speaking. >> Well, it's tough because y'all aren't married. And so, I wouldn't tell you to make a budget together because y'all are just boyfriend and girlfriend living in her parents' basement, right? Like if y'all were married, if y'all were engaged and y'all were starting to think through, we're going to make a budget together and we're going to high-five each other and stick to this budget that we've made >> and then she was like, "Look out, surprise concert tickets." Then yeah, you >> you've broken something that you've said together.

Yes. >> But if y'all are just dating and you've been dating a long time and you're just sitting in your in-law, I mean, in your girlfriend's parents' basement saying like, "Hey, we need to get our stuff together." And she's like, "Yeah, yeah." I mean, >> I've created no situation where she has to, right? And and I hear what you're saying, Bill.

>> Yeah. >> Can she keep a job? Like what's the job situation?

>> Um so I have two jobs. I work full-time at a Target and part-time as a math tutor at Mathnasium. And I work approximately 40 to 55 hours a week. And I'd say it brings me in approximately 3500 to 4,000 a month.

>> And what does she do?

So, she just has uh side gigs. Um she does a lot of pet sitting. Um it's been picking up a little bit because it's it's springtime and summertime and people want to travel. Um the other

thing I guess too is she does have her mom who owns a lice removal service

company and she has lots of experience

with doing that and that's actually a very nice job because they get a lot >> pay a lot. But she won't work. She won't work it though. >> Well, and this and >> that's Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Yes. So, but I can I can feel Okay, Bill, but you're in the same You're a little bit I'm going to group you all in the same situation. You're both living with at her parents house.

>> I hear you trying. You're he's turned a corner and he's like, I want to do

something with my life, create financial stability. and she's petsitting, which again, nothing's wrong with pets sitting, but that's for a full-time career if she was doing it 60 hours a week. >> 28-y old, >> not for a 28-y old, right? And it could be a great side gig, but like that you I I do see the lack of initiation on her side. And that is >> very concerning. >> Yes, that's concerning. So, I see >> it's concerning that her mom still speaks into y'all's life,

>> right? So, here's the thing.

>> The only thing you can control is you.

If I if you were my son in this exact situation, I would tell you go get a one-bedroom apartment today. >> Yes.

>> Praise God. >> I want I want you to have skin in the game of your life.

>> And you're not going to you're not going to accumulate wealth as much as you want, whatever. And then say, "We're not breaking up, but I need to get out of underneath your mom and dad as my parents, and I need to start creating a life as me as a 30-year-old man." >> Yes. And then you can see with clear eyes, is she want to join your team till

death do you part or she want to live under her mommy's roof petsitting a few months out of the year? Right.

>> That's what I was going to say, John. >> Dude, you wrapped it up. Seriously. Yes.

It's going to expose and show more of the truth. Bill, when you are on your own and you have the blinders on for your life, does she enter it or does she exit it? >> And you make your budget for your money.

Today's Ramsey show Question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out, but Yrefi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. So to learn more, go to

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May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Andy in Kansas. Andy writes, "My wife says

I'm taking the baby steps too seriously." Andy, there's no such thing.

All right. Um, because I'm very focused on paying off our debt using the snowball method. She wants to pay off debt, but would like us to save for a vacation and build a larger emergency fund at the same time. We have the $1,000 starter emergency fund, but she wants to increase that amount, slow down a bit, and not be so intense about paying off debt.

I don't want to create tension between us, but at the same time, I really want to stay focused on becoming debtree. How can we stay united as a couple while making progress towards our financial goals? This has to be the number one question we get >> that one person is like >> all in.

>> Yes. Yes. Totally. Um,

yeah. And I think for me it's it's one of those gives and take, give, give and take, gives and takes, give and takes in marriage. Um, because there is there's naturally going to be the free spirit, the one that I do think has the capacity to handle some of maybe the the money

stress a little bit more. It's just whatever it is, right? Where there's the one that's like, we got to get out of this. The urgency is so big. And and maybe I wouldn't put nerd-free spirit on those specifically, but that tends to be the personality of the couples we see.

But what we find overall are the per the couples who win financially, and I mean win like pay off their home, have a million dollars in their retirement, all of it. They are not only shooting for the same goal, but they're for each other in the process. Meaning if I see that this is so important to him, I know it's important and I want to get there, but man, he wants to like, you know, go all out, okay, for a year, like we'll do

it. I can give up a vacation for a year and I can go in and and almost in a way of loving him well of what he is desiring and wanting at the speed, you know, that vice versa to the wife, right? If she wants her debtree, she's like, "Yeah, she's probably want to spend more on a vacation and he's like, okay, we have the money for it. We're not being responsible, but I wouldn't I would spend it." somewhere else.

But for her right now, okay, let's just do it because we can. Do does that make sense? Like >> that is my exact house.

somebody money, I don't sleep. I I I

have anxiety. Like it drives me crazy.

My wife could have a mortgage and a car payment and she wouldn't lose sleep over it. She didn't like it, but she she sleep just fine. I I have a plan and whatever. her loving me well when we

were buying a house and we were able to put a big chunk down. We're gonna take a mortgage on a little bit of it. We sat down and I said, "Okay, for this long

it's going to cost me, can we pay this thing like this?" And she said, "Yes, and when this thing's paid off, we're going to take a silly vacation." And I was like, I would never spend that on a vacation all in. Right. And so it's us loving each other. Well, >> but Andy, what that required though was

>> that conversation that me and my wife had was not a spreadsheet conversation.

It was, hey, here's what this does to me. And she's like, I love you more than any other thing I could have. Yes, >> I'm all in. And life without a vacation

for me, I like I don't like that. And

I'm like, I love you more than any of the like, right? So, we'll do that, too.

This is about talking about the thing beneath the thing, which is sitting down and saying, "Here's what the debt is doing to me. It's making me feel like a failure as a dad, as a husband. It scares me about our future. The economy is bananas right now.

AI is going to kill us all." Like all those say those things out loud and then come up with a plan together. I don't think you're taking the baby steps too seriously, Andy, but I do think you're taking them on all by yourself and that's going to divide your marriage up. And so I think sitting down and having the convers the thing beneath the thing and if you're with a partner that's like I don't care what you care about we're having a vacation your marriage has bigger issues >> right cuz I promise you that's not just showing up there it's showing up in other places too.

>> Well and that's it too. I'm like and we say it all the time that so many calls we get about money issues. They're not really money issues. It's marriage issues.

You really do. It is because that's who we are as people to our core, right?

Like that's what the the complete side of us is. And all this other stuff of

life that we've built on top of it, money, you know, all this other stuff, it's all built on top of that. And the problem is you only get to that layer if you're like, here's the spreadsheets and here here's how much we can make with the percentage that we're saving here versus the market. And all that's fine.

Like that's true, right? Like you can look at the math and absolutely. And some people are like great, check it off. That's what I needed to see.

But for most people, especially from the quality of a marriage perspective, it is getting to understanding what is happening with my spouse. And when you do and you have those conversations, you get to know your spouse, right, >> on a deeper way, right? >> And there's there's nothing greater than seeing and knowing and learning about your spouse. By the way, you're you're going to be married to 15 or 20 different versions of your spouse over the course of your marriage.

So, you're always going to be in an act of getting to know >> and then celebrating the crap out of them. And celebrating your spouse sometimes is we're going to do without a vacation for 2 years cuz we're going to get this thing cleaned up and then we're going to be able to go on whatever stupid vacations we want to go on uh for for from now until forever if we just make the sacrifice. But >> I really want to stay focused on becoming debtree. Andy writes, tell her why.

Tell her what's going on in your spirit in the middle of your chest. Have that conversation.

Getting out of debt, which I guess some people would say is crazy. There are things in life that are like, "Yeah, that's worth fighting for." Because that really does cause stress, right? You could put money stuff in there, health stuff, >> of course, >> you know, it's not like, "Oh gosh, I think >> which I can go conspiracy, but if you're like, okay, yeah, the all the cell phones are going down tomorrow. We got to like get bugout back, right?" Like, it's not a lot.

It's not like not factual, right? These are things that are like actually factually affecting people. Does that make sense? Like you can put other elements, but money is one of those things that affects people.

like oh my gosh, she's having to like coddle something that's bizarre and weird and like oh gosh, >> she's it's actually going to create a lot of health in you and in your marriage when money is not a factor because you guys have control over it.

All right, let's hope the cell phones don't go down tomorrow. But uh if they do, we have Julie in Los Angeles. I don't know what you do in Los Angeles if all the cell phones went down, but hey Julie, how are you?

>> I'm good. >> Good. How can we help you today?

>> I have a question. Um first off, I am a

debt snowball graduate, my husband and I, from a long time ago. Um but um I am

now a widow and I'm 61. I'm looking to

retire uh at 62, which is about a year

away. And I want to know I'm going to

move out of this taxable state into a non- tax state. And I want to know based on what assets that I have, how much

house can I afford and how should I buy it? You know, mortgage, cash, what should I do? >> Okay. How much will you have when you sell the house?

>> Uh I'm I don't own one right now. I'm

going to retire and then I'm going to move. I want to know how much house I can afford to buy. >> Okay. How much how much money do you have saved >> in retirement? >> Uh I have about $3 million in investments.

>> Okay. >> Um and another million probably in 401ks. >> Okay, perfect. Do you know how much um just living expenses for you is a month?

How much you would probably spend to live comfortably for you? >> Right now, right now working and everything, I'm relatively frugal. Like kind of a graduate from the debt snowball school. Yeah, you've done it.

>> That's great. >> And um >> so what I would >> what I would do, Julie, honestly, is I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. If you go to Ramseyolutions.com, um you can find one in your area because I would want you to map out and see, okay, if I had to live off of the $4

million, um how much less could I live off of in order to own a home right out? Right?

So, if you took half a million and bought something with that, um, you know, you'd have 3.5 million left. How much per year, which would you would you need to see growth for you to live off of? Which I think would be plenty.

>> So, then you can up it and say, "What if I bought a million dollar? Do I need a million dollar?" So, you're going to actually be able to run some numbers out in calculations to see actually the money that you have to withdraw to live off of, how much would you need, and if

you want to leave any um to the next generation as well. So, um so I would get with the Smart Ver Pro and run those numbers, but I would assume anywhere from a 400 to a 500,000.

>> Easy peasy. >> You're going to be great and you can pay cash for it, which is awesome, Julie. Well done.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and we're taking your calls. The lines are open at88255225.

All right, we're gonna go to John in Houston, Texas. >> Htown, what's up, John?

>> Hey, what's going on, y'all? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

>> So, I am wanting for me and my wife's household income to equal $100,000 a year by the end of 2027. I'm currently

halfway there and make 51,000.

But, she refuses to work. And when she does work and then quits, she blames it on being bipolar and having anxiety. I'm wondering what I should do to push her to start working and keeping her job.

>> Does she have diagnosed bipolar disorder? >> She does. >> Okay. Is she manage it well? Does she take her meds?

>> Uh, she takes her meds, but as far as managing, it probably not.

>> H, >> what does that mean? Sorry. What is that? What would that mean?

>> She's not managing it well, but she is.

>> I I've known some amazing some folks with bipolar one that are amazing folks, but they know I take my medication every day for the rest of my life. And for folks with especially with with BP bipolar one, it's hard because you feel so good. It's easy to feel like, oh, I'm all good now.

>> And you got to take your meds, but also

you have to be intentional about your exercise. You have to be intentional about your sleep. You have to be intentional about relationships, the whole thing. And that's what I mean by managing it. >> Got it. Got it. >> Um, and so she doesn't do that. Is that right? >> No. >> Okay. Is she still seeing a counselor?

>> Yeah, she uh we actually have a schedule for Thursday. >> Okay. Um I Is this your first time to go with her?

>> Uh this is this will be my second time.

>> Okay. I want you to lead with this question. Okay.

Um >> Okay. We have some household financial needs and I see needs I see u abilities

in my wife that she doesn't see for herself. How can I love her through the transition of being scared of your own body which having bipolar one is as they've I've had people explain it to me. It's like you're being betrayed by your own body, right? Some things feel so amazing at them. Some things feel like the end of time and neither of those things are right. And so how can I love her through this transition?

Yeah. >> And that's going to signal to your wife, I'm on your team. And things have to

change in our home. And it's going to signal to the therapist, oh, this woman has support, not at the lecturing level,

but at the soul level. I'm with her.

>> How can I love her well during this time as she's going to begin managing this thing? >> Yeah. >> Right. And then if she's in a in a positive season right now, if she's in like what I call not a manic state or a depressive state, but if she's doing pretty well right now, this is a great conversation to lay out like how can I

love you when things get pretty when you get pretty ramped up and how can I love you when things when you get pretty ramped down and go ahead and come up with a game plan now so that when those when those things hit um hopefully the the medication and the life management, all that levels some of that out, but when those things hit you already have a road map. Trying to ask somebody during a manic phase, how can I love you?

That's a that that's not helpful, right?

You've been there, right? And when somebody's can't get out of bed, like it's hard to be like, well, how can I love you today? >> And so, um, but getting that when you're in a good season, that's amazing.

>> And it might be it might be that the

thou $100,000 number you have in your head, >> y'all may never get there. It might be 75 and that'll be okay. We have to then

reimagine what our life's going to look like. And that's going to be okay, too. >> Right. >> Yeah. I put the $100,000 mark because we're actually $30,000 in debt.

>> Okay. And that's hard to pay off only making 51 grand, right?

>> Right. >> Yeah. Is she have her spending under control?

>> Um, no. >> Okay. That might be the front end of this conversation, which is during manic phases, especially we I hear that a lot that folks just get to spending and spending and spending. So, when I know I'm heading into a manic phase, I'm going to put my debit card in a lock box

and you own the uh we have a freeze on

your credit report and you own the passcode to Amazon Prime, right? There's just some low-level basic things that I've seen couples do that work great for the for those seasons. And you might have to weather a storm, right? She might come after you for that code or that password, but we're going to hold firm in those seasons.

>> Okay. >> How long have you guys been married, John?

>> Uh, we're going on three years.

>> Okay. >> Three years. >> So, still learning. Yeah. >> How to do this? Well, >> I'm glad you guys have a good a good counselor. >> And can I say this? Um, this doesn't get talked about very much.

This is exhausting for you, too, right?

It's okay for you to feel that way also.

Okay. I know she's the one with the diagnosis. I know she's the one struggling inside of her own skin.

Totally get that. And you love her to the moon and back, right? And it's frustrating for you, too, to try to build some sort of secure life for both of you. That's hard. And so, you get to be um I want to give you permission to be frustrated, too. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> John, did you were you aware of everything before you guys got married?

Um, so actually I had a couple I had one

debt of my own and then when we got married, we uh financed the car and then

the rest is um just if anything were to

h if anything happened, she would just panic and then just get a loan for $500

or $1,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And so that's where putting a freeze on her credit, >> y'all. You you you don't do that for her, but y'all do that together. That in those moments when she panics, it it there's a stop gap there, right? And we're going to put as many hurdles as possible in front of us so that we together don't make bad decisions for us.

>> Okay. >> Awesome. >> Is that cool? Thanks for the call, brother. >> Yeah. Thanks, John. >> Thanks for loving her well while she's struggling. >> For sure. Yeah. And that that is difficult. And I think you know and even if someone is not you know diagnosed with something like that there is this

realization of okay I can only do so much on my end. You know we were talking about um spouses and bringing them on

board right and working as a team together. Um but we have found when you

create stop gaps together with things

like spending when especially if you see a pattern uh is so helpful. It is so

helpful because you don't realize the ease at which debt can just come into your life or spending can just happen.

>> You can have a bad if you if I I've known people with bipolar one that have one bad weekend >> and there I'm I'm talking 10 or 20 years worth of digging out of this hole. Yeah.

Right. You can go buy a car and get a $10,000 loan and then get two credit cards and burn through them all in a weekend now. Right. Right.

And what a nightmare that is to untangle. So, it's knowing yourself well enough to know and being honest with yourself enough to know I >> my body gets set on fire from the inside out. I panic. I do X, Y, and Z.

I need to put some hurdles in my life. Will you help me? >> And from your experience, not her specifically, but that situation, she would she could have the ability to have that rational thought and when she's in a good state. >> Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's got to expect she's going to come she's going to come for blood when she's not doing well. And that's part of loving somebody well when they're struggling, right?

>> Yes. With that. >> Um and that's okay.

>> Well, John, we're so glad you called in.

Hope that's helpful. We're we're cheering you guys on. Call us back if you need anything.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseyssolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Up next, we have Tori in Huntsville,

Alabama. Hi, Tori. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you.

>> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

>> So, I am currently in baby step number two. Uh, I currently work for a financial firm and what I do is I deal

with equity >> and although I am currently paying off my debt, there is

a test more so like the certifications for equity professionals that you can take. I mean it for me it would significantly increase my income.

>> Okay. >> But it is $2,000. So >> my question for you is although I'm still paying off debt, would it be okay

>> to you know spend that money to take this test and you know more than likely increase the income or should I just wait and try to finish off paying?

Because right now if I stick to my plan >> I should be done and completely out of debt next year. Okay. Um Tori, what are

you making now? And if you had the certification, what would you be making?

>> Okay. So, I am currently at 68.

>> Okay. >> Five. But minimum on average about 90

with the certification. >> Oh, yeah. I would >> I would Tori. >> I would Tori. Yes. Because it's pretty guaranteed, right? It's not like you're getting an MBA and you hope you'll get a higher paying job somewhere. It's a pretty like one for one, right? If I didn't get the 90, majority of even just

even competitors with my own company are paying at the very minimum for an e like for the actual the certified equity professional certification.

>> Yep. >> Still at 85 minimum for most companies.

That's the lowest I've seen it. >> 100%. And are you pretty confident asking that? >> I'm confident >> you can take that you'll take that when you take it. You think you'll pass?

>> You got pass >> or you going to have to take it like five times? Do you know? No, I think I'll pass. I've been actually preparing for it. I've been thinking about it for the past week and a half.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Heck yeah. I'm like that's like a $20,000 increase. >> How many months will it take you to save up to pay for this test?

>> Um, honestly, I just recently picked up a second job, so I honestly can have this saved up within the next two months. >> You're a baller. Do it. Do it. Um, I also cuz I just paid off my car, so then that freed up an extra $500 a month, but I'm confident I can have this >> done. Do it. Do it.

>> Yeah. >> And I don't know. I know like I've heard on you guys' show where like you said like when you're paying off debt to like stop certain things, but like I did stop

part of my 401k investments, I um

>> I didn't drop it all the way down. I had it at 10%. I'm now doing 6% just so I can keep my match.

>> Boom. >> Tori, for for 12 months, pause it and

throw that money at your debt. >> Just be done. You're so close.

>> Just for 12 months. >> Like I know >> I have 22,000 left in student loans and I have about 4,200 left in credit cards.

But I got a plan. Is almost done. I'll have it paid next next like literally in the next month. The next card was a secured card. So, actually, I plan to close it anyway, so I can throw that at the next deck. >> Good. Yes. It's the snowball effect.

You're doing it. >> You're doing it, >> Tori. We're so I'm so proud of you, girl. That's amazing. You're doing incredible. You're doing absolutely incredible. And the research of figuring out, okay, I can get a $2,000 certification for a $20,000 raise. That's some good ROI right there, Tori. Like, yes. >> And and everybody listening, here's what we're not saying. What you you said it.

>> Yeah. It's >> this isn't I'm going to pause the baby steps. I owe a h 100red grand from undergrad. I'm going to go ahead and take out a $200,000 loan to get a MBA

and I hope that that moves me up or I'm a teacher and I want to go back to school and get a master's degree and I hope this other district hired me. This is somebody in a job who has a needs a credential to move up in this job. She's already crushing it in her company and it's >> and it's $2,000. >> It's 2,000 bucks. Yeah. >> Yes. This is a no-brainer. So Tori, you're awesome.

I love it. Love it. All right, let's go to San Diego. We have Chris on the line.

Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. >> Yes. Well, thanks for calling in. How can we help? >> Yeah. So, uh, my wife and I got married 6 months ago, and we've been living in an apartment in San Diego. And her in-law or, u, my in-laws, her parents are offering to build an extension onto

their home so that we can move in and

save money, but we would be paying for the construction of the extension to their home.

>> Figure out.

>> Hey, Chris, I got a good idea. Give me a million dollars >> to increase my home.

>> Yeah. to increase my home value and then uh I'll let you I'll let you live there.

>> Yeah. No, >> I would not do this. >> No. >> No. Um >> but it's interesting though because like financially we could do it.

>> I know. It's not interesting though cuz you'll be living in your in your in-laws house. >> Yes. And then actually for resale value in-law suites are actually not that great because it takes a very specific buyer to even want it. So even for your in-laws, if your in-laws called and said, "We want to build on," I would be like, "Eh, I probably wouldn't. I think they're fine." No, Chris, you guys need to go and live your lives genuinely

because what happens, people get trapped in these situations and then you take out the the construction loan or whatever it is and you're trying to pay it and then something happens and you want to move to Arizona because you got this insane job and it's like we can't because we're stuck here because we promised this and this like you start to have all these strings attached and you guys can't just fly and be free like just Yes. and have a driveway that's just yours, not parking with your in-laws. You know what I mean?

>> If they said, "Hey, we're going to do this anyway, and we will let y'all live here rent free >> for a year or two about that. Do that all day long." >> Um, but y'all, >> you need to build your own equity, too, in your own place. >> Rachel's call out is really important.

The first, you're going to put down $350,000 on this thing. You're going to cash flow it, and then you're going to get the job of a lifetime in Texas. And you're going to be like, "Wow, there's no state income tax. What do we do?" and you're gonna have to take this and then that money is sunk into your in-laws house and I I just wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.

>> Okay. >> Did we Did we convince you? What do you think? Do you want to go? Do you want to live at your in-laws?

>> Um, you know, I have my own thoughts

here though. What are your thoughts?

You've heard ours. What's yours?

>> Um, it's further in San Diego from my

job. And in terms of dollars, more

dollars would be going out per month, even though it's the same amount, if that makes sense. >> Wait, say it again. Say that.

>> So, we're the amount that we're able to save right now is how much we'd be putting towards the loan, >> but it ties up our money. And if we're ready to move out in our own place in 5 years, Oh, yeah. >> I think it would it would tie us down even more versus saving the same amount in the same amount of time and having that money as liquid.

>> Correct. you are thinking >> 100%. >> What's your what's your wife saying?

>> I guarantee you I know what she says.

>> Um we haven't had a ton of time to talk about it recently, but um I think we're kind of on the same page. I've been sharing u my thoughts with her and she's like, "Yeah, like that totally makes sense." And then we're bouncing it off her parents and kind of having a mutual discussion, but it's all very loose right now. >> Okay. I I want to say something crazy.

Don't have a mutual discussion with her parents. You and your wife have a discussion and then you announce what your decision is. >> Wow. >> Because I don't want them negotiating with you on y'all helping increase the

>> the resale value of their home.

>> You all make a decision and then you say, "Hey, thank you so so much for the offer. Um, we're going to keep we want to stay here in our apartment and we're going to build uh up our savings so that we can get our own place." End of conversation's over.

Yeah, that makes it nice and easy, huh?

>> Now, they they probably have a Oh, go ahead. I >> was say their hearts may be in a great spot. They I think in some situations like this, they genuinely think, of course, >> we're helping and this will be so great.

>> Well, one day we'll flip. We'll move to the we'll move to the in-law suite and we'll give the house to them. I I I mean, I'm telling you, that's what I bet that they can get the house and we'll downsize later or something. >> Or no, we'll move to the in-law suite and they'll keep the house and then we can be around the grandkids.

They've got a whole idea worked out and it's I I don't fault them for a second for coming up with this idea. It's a great plan and housing in San Diego's >> I don't know onebedroom apartments $8 billion. I get it.

>> And to your point, if they had built it and it was there like we had some friends and their parents had like a small home out like by a pool and they lived there for about 2 to 3 years, rent free everything and it was great and then they saved up the money, they went put a down payment, moved into a home.

It was wonderful cuz it was already there. It was part of the system. and they had a good relationship. It was fine and they actually created their savings goals. But Chris, if you're having to cash flow this into something that you can't take the equity out is that's not a smart investment. And I just think having some boundaries uh your first 6 months of marriage, first couple years, I think it's good. Have your own location. You guys figure out life together. But thanks for the call and yeah, congratulations on the new marriage.

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseyolutions.com/insurance.

Buying or selling your home is a really big deal and there's so much clickbait in the headlines out there and conflicting data that it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So last month the average 15-year fixed rate mortgage had ticked up a bit to 5.56% but it's still lower than 6% which is great. And if you're financially ready, a small increase like that shouldn't be able to hold you back.

So again, this idea that just because prices, interest rates go up a little, down a little, all of it.

Now, the median home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical for the spring markets. Now there's more homes available or more buyers are entering the market. So it is a great time to buy or sell. So, to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's head to Riley in Memphis, Texas. Hi, Riley. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Okay, so I'm going to keep this brief.

Me and my husband, we've been Ramsey people since getting married. Um, and have no debt aside from our house. Um, however, my parents have been uh struggling financially for quite some time. Um, and despite this, my mom will buy things for us and it takes a huge toll on my husband and I. Um, it makes us feel like we're contributing to to their debt. Um, so I was just wondering how do I approach my mom about purchasing things for my family um when they are in debt and can't afford it.

>> Yeah. What's she buying?

>> So, um, she'll buy stuff for our house.

We're not, we just moved into our house and we're not in a position to buy like things like curtains or rugs or things like that and so she'll buy stuff um like that or we just had a daughter as well and so she'll buy um like clothes and things for her >> and you're not asking her to. She's just showing up with stuff.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> So here's a hard truth. Um

you and your husband can't own her decisions.

>> Yeah. Okay. You can you can you can sit

down with her and say, "Mom, me and my husband really want to grind this thing out ourselves and I'm so grateful for

you always bringing us stuff and all that kind of like what we really want is you just to come hang out with the new baby or come hang out with us. Um, but

really, and I know this sounds ridiculous, we want to grind it out ourselves.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You can't That's what I was >> You can't do anything about. >> I guess >> if she shows up with it, she shows up with it, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's what I was wondering like if it's something I need to change my mindset about, like it's not my problem kind of thing. As as bad as that sounds, but it does make us feel really guilty knowing the place that they're at, especially because we're doing a little bit better than they are.

>> Yeah. I I want to set you free from this. Um, and it's not a oneandone, but

my friend Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist in New York. She taught me this and it it it's one of those I had a before and after moment, and this is just a year or two ago. Okay.

Do you think having um curtains in your

house, is that a violation of you and your husband's marital values?

>> No. >> No. Do you think getting a gift, is that a violation of your marital values?

No. >> Okay. So, guilt is actually a good thing. It's a thing that our body feels when we do something that violates our core values.

>> What you're feeling is not guilt. You're

trying to take your mom's situation and own it for her.

>> Okay? >> You get what I'm saying?

>> And that's not your cinder block to carry around all the time. Probably underneath the thing you think is guilt.

I bet it's anger.

Yeah. >> I bet you're pissed off that they've you grew up in that house. You know how what money stress feels like and she's now doing it to y'all.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And so it's it's it's what you're feeling I don't think is guilt. I think you're you're mad. I think you're frustrated. Like get your house in order, mom and dad. Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes from we actually a few months ago we were doing really really well financially um when my parents were at their worst and we gave them a gift um a

money gift in hopes that it would be kind of a wakeup call. Um >> no you you woke up you woke a dragon.

That's what you woke up.

>> And so I feel like it's kind of a slap in the face. So I do think that's that's kind of makes me and my husband a little bit angry. >> Did they ask for that money gift?

No, it was just something that was put on our heart.

>> But >> tell me about that. It >> So, at this point, this was during Christmas, and at this point, they were really struggling to put food on the table. Um, and trying to give us a good

Christmas, me and my siblings. Um, and so we just felt really saddened by the

situation. um my mom had just gotten laid off from her job. And so we felt um

that possibly um giving a gift of money and then realizing the help that they can that they have received would help them I don't know like feel more motivated um to get back in the workplace um to provide for their family. >> Um >> so >> and it didn't work out that way.

>> Yeah. So one time um

like if if somebody passes away, you bring food, right? Like there's some things you just show up and you you you

just show up without asking. One time my buddy and his wife were he was finishing school. She was they were they were just stressed to to the max. And then she found out she was pregnant. And so I told my wife, "Hey, I want to get them a

house cleaner. I want a whole crew to show up at her house and take care of the whole thing." And my wife looked at me and she's like, "Are you insane?" And I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "The last thing a woman who's drowning in all the stuff needs is her friends to think, oh, she's got a dirty house. Let's clean it for her." >> And so what she told me was, "Sit down with them. They're your friends for 25 years." And say, "Hey, how can we love y'all right now?

We're in a season of blessing." >> And so instead of throwing a check at somebody that's struggling, this somebody you know really well, right?

What do y'all need? How can we love y'all right now?" And let her tell you.

>> And if she has too much ego or pride to say, "Hey, we could really use $500 for groceries." Um, and she says, "Nothing.

We're fine and good." Then let her be an adult and say, "You're fine or good." But you thinking y'all can go in and just dump money on a problem and it's going to motivate them, that's never worked for them ever. and it's not going to work now. And y'all are the ones paying the price for, right? You're upset.

>> And now you're resentful because they're not doing well with the money, with their money, right? The thing that was supposed to help them. And in fact, they're becoming >> still irresponsible and you're in the pathway of it all of them just like throwing their irresponsibility at you with stuff that you're like, "Mom, >> and I I don't want you walking around feeling guilty because y'all are in a season of blessing right now." >> Yeah. So, what's the Yeah.

What's the boundary, John, for adult an adult child, right, Riley? and the parents like >> take take care of your money really well. You and your husband be good stewards of what you got >> and keep an open dialogue with your mom that question always. How can I love you today?

I asked my wife that. She asked me that. But that's a great great question for your kids.

>> Yeah. >> And if they say, "Well, we just need $1,000 a month from here on out." Then you can say, "I don't want to contribute to that." or I'll walk you through your finances if you want to talk money, but I'm not just going to throw money at a problem over and over because then you are tilling the soil for resentment.

Right. >> Right. Yeah. >> And so I agree.

>> Own that. Say, "I want to love you. I want to I want our relationships to say good and just throwing money at a problem." Right. So if you want to talk about how to get your money right, if you want to talk about budgeting, if you want to talk about this Ramsey stuff that me and my husband do that has helped us get this clear, I'm I'm in all day long.

And if you have a need like, hey, we don't have any groceries, we'll be there for you 100 times out of 100. >> Yeah, we can feel that need. >> But man, when you get to just >> Well, when they when money is just thrown at a problem, anything, this could be friendships, parents to children, children to parents, I mean, all of it. When it's being thrown at a problem, but the problem itself is not being addressed, it just magnifies the dysfunction and it becomes a bigger problem of the problem, right?

It it rarely goes in and fixes it.

Like, we want to do that. And cuz we are magnifying the good that is happening, not the dysfunction. And >> but I will say this, sometimes that sentiment, which I agree with 100%.

um is used to also, hey, there's a guy

hungry on the side of the street. I'm not going to give him any money. He needs to get it. Sometimes the problem to solve is that guy's hungry right now.

He needs a place to stay tonight, right?

We're going to solve that. Like, so I I want to be generous across the board.

But when it comes to systemic stuff like this in your house, man, sitting down and having the harder conversation is always more valuable.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go

download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our scripture today comes from Isaiah 43:19.

See, I am doing a new thing now. It springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Jim Collins said, "The critical question is not whether you have luck, but what you do with the luck that you get."

Uh, do you remember, this is so random, one time we were hosting together. Every time I do it, I kind of laugh to myself because I have this memory of us hosting together and I didn't say our scripture of the day. I just started saying, "See, I am doing it." I just started writing to the scripture. >> We were just hanging out on the air and Rachel starts speaking in like New King Jame, old King James version.

I was like, "Uh." >> He said, "What are you saying?" I was like, "It's our scripture of the day." >> She's been reading all those like fairy Viking romances or whatever.

>> Anyway, just always makes me laugh. I'm always like, "I need to say scripture of the day." And I don't just start saying, "See, I am doing a new thing." No, it springs up. Although when we're hanging out, just like you and me and Sheil and Winston, you do just sometimes break into these long scriptural >> some monologue. No. Yeah. No.

>> All right, let's go to Columbus, Ohio,

and we have Oh, Alexa, what a name to have in the world today. Hi, Alexa.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, good afternoon. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

Yeah, my husband and I are exciting

about two to three months away from completing baby step two. Yes. But realized that we are not aligned on what

to do with our credit card once they are paid off. >> Okay. >> And I'm in the camp of closing them. He is not. And so I'm just looking for talking points on how to help him make make him feel good about that decision.

>> Some talking points. Um okay. Okay. So, when you say he doesn't want to close it out, does he want to keep it the credit card in case of an emergency or is he wanting to keep it for expenses but pay it off every month? Like what is he looking for when it comes to the credit card? >> He's in the camp of it's a good credit building tool and then more so in case of an emergency, why not is what he usually uses. >> Yes. Okay.

Well, my talking points, which Jonathan could probably get into the psychology of just uh what you're desiring, Alexa, for as

husband and wife, you know, how he can appro how you can approach that with him on more the emotional level, but from just the financial side, you know, what what we

find is people who especially rack up

credit card debt throughout the month and say, "We're going to pay it off." um more I think it's like right close to 50% of Americans don't and so half the

people are telling themselves a lie that they can afford it when they really can't and if your credit card is your

emergency fund then you're just you are adding risk back into your life and what I think it does is I think it slows down the motivation to actually save and have a fully funded emergency fund that should be your safety net you should be your safety net you know a credit card company and then when it goes to building credit score. I mean, yeah, if he's wanting to go, you know, get loans, then yeah, you will have to have a credit score.

you would, but if you did, then having a credit score would be important. But we believe you don't have to live with debt, so you don't have to have a credit score. And for a mortgage, that's the one type of debt we're okay with that you can actually do manual underwriting.

You don't even have to have a credit score to do that. So, um, so there's a way to live life without a credit score, but you really are choosing to live life debtree, which ultimately, which is why we do this show. We really do believe it it brings the ultimate peace when you don't owe anyone anything and you have autonomy over your money. So, >> can I give you a bad like an example that's probably not fair, Alexa?

>> Sorry. How long have y'all been married?

>> Married two weeks. >> Oh, two. Sweet. Y'all are just in this.

How long did y'all date?

>> We've been together for about eight years. >> Gross. That's a decade. Awesome. Okay.

Imagine I'm going to be ridiculous. Will you be ridiculous with me?

>> Sure. >> Okay. Imagine y'all both cheated on each other at the beginning of your dating relationship and then y'all both decided it's you and me. ride or die. We're going to do this thing. And then y'all were both like, "But let's keep those one night stands

numbers in our phone just in case you get annoying." >> Oh my gosh. >> Right. It's ridiculous. Right. It's ridiculous. You would never do that.

>> You would say, "No, no, no. We're married. We're going to figure this thing out." And so, if we have a fight, if we don't like each other for a while, which is every marriage, if we're annoying each other, we're going to sit down and figure this out. If you work like crazy to get out of debt and you're like, "Well, let's just keep these things open just in case, you're going to use them.

If you don't have that number in your phone, you're going to have to sit down and figure out, all right, we had the fridge go out and the transmission fell out of the car. We have to figure this out.

And >> be a one car family for a month until we save up and pay for it. >> Yeah. You You will figure out how to do it right. And so I for me, I'll tell you this. Uh it's why I keep social media on a separate phone. I'm not good enough.

Those the tech folks who created these social media, they're better than me.

They are better than me. So I have to put a bunch of steps in front of me.

It's a tool I have to use for work. So it has to go on a separate phone with an off switch that goes in my bag, etc., etc. When it comes to credit cards, I'm not good enough. I'm not. They're better than me. Always knowing I could always just quickly jump to this thing. Um, so

I that's why I think you close them. You

clo You set up a bunch of hurdles between you and where you actually want to go.

>> Love it. I appreciate it. Thank you.

>> Yeah, you bet. And congratulations two weeks in. I'm glad you're already have having this big fight. Good luck.

>> All right, let's go to John in Denver.

Hi, John.

>> Hi. Uh, had a question on your guys's

thoughts on public loan forgiveness.

Mhm. >> Um my girlfriend uh is graduating

medical school and is starting her residency. Um and the 3 years of her residency will count towards the 10 years needed for public loan forgiveness. Um so didn't know if that's

something uh from a we should pursue standpoint or

if it's more so hey we can aggressively pay this off once she gets her first um

kind of normal paying doctor job. Yeah.

>> Um, >> or what your guys' stances were on public loan forgiveness. >> So, I'll tell you this. I have I have a really significant built-in bias. And I'll give you the other side of my bias.

I worked at a law school for six, seven

years on for a while. And I had a number

of some of the most brilliant, compassionate minds forego

working in big law where they could go make a whole bunch of money. and they chose to go do public service law with the idea that they were going to be a part of this loan forgiveness program and then they all got hosed.

They they weren't they weren't like they kept getting denied or not reimbursed or delayed or an administrative error or clerical error or some sort of mess. And so I have been ranting I don't trust I

don't trust the government to come in and pay off any I don't trust them to do anything they say they're going to do in 10 years. I I mean go back 10 years politically. Could you have imagined today? No.

Right. And so when I look into the future 10 years, I would say, man, I trust me and my wife more than anybody else in the world. That said, I want to also give the other side is the public service loan forgiveness has gone up. They have been processing more and they've been getting through this backlog of millions of people.

would continue to pay on it if it was my house just because I don't trust what's going to happen in 10 years. Um, but that that that I'm telling you what I would do in my home. I'm telling you what I did do in my home. My wife and I paid off our our student loans of our

doctoral programs um that could have qualified for public service because we didn't trust the outcome,

>> right? Which and my only thought is and then this is uh um my nervousness I

guess or you know compare and contrast whether you put money on the market etc.

um is that she has over it'll be over about 600,000.

Um we don't have any consumer debt. Um

really >> the only thing we have is >> Well, it's not we John, it's your girlfriend. So keep things separate.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Correct. Um which in the the plan is trending in >> a good direction. I'm glad. I'm glad.

>> Yes. That's Yeah. Uh no, I don't want to spoil anything, but uh that's where uh things are heading. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, we Yeah.

We've heard the good side, bad side. We tend to lean on >> I'm going to lean every time >> personal responsibility and take care of it. Um, but we do know people, we've had people call in on the show and they've chosen to give their life that way and and it worked out for them and that's great. Um, >> $600,000 is feels like an insane gamble

to take on the government going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years. >> Yep. All right, John, thanks for the call. Uh, great show everyone. John, thanks so much. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 78. Getting Clarity Around Your Money Changes Everything | January 2, 2026


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Hey, before we get rolling, listen up.

If you want to win with money in 2026,

you can't keep living normal. Normal's broke. You need a plan. Get a

personalized plan and start living like

no one else by downloading our Every Dollar app today.

Normal is broke and [music] common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour, the number to call is88255225.

It's your show. We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Rihanna is with us in Minneapolis. Rihanna, welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me today. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, so I just have a question for you guys. Um, so was I right to break off my engagement because of long-term money issues and bad spending habits? I've always been disciplined with saving and planning for money, but he struggled with overspending and staying employed.

Now that he's moved out, I've taken on full full financial responsibilities myself. How can I stay on top of my bills while saving and protecting my future? >> Oo, that was like 20 20 things in one.

>> Okay, we'll we'll tackle the first part first. So, um, were [clears throat] you right to break this off because of red flags that were not attended to that he clearly this was a value you had >> and this is a value every woman has is if I'm going to marry some guy, he's got to be able to do at least two things.

Provide and protect. Right? That's the reason why we find a mate primally speaking. And you're saying he can't provide for the future. This was red flags that this guy can't hold a job.

He's going to continually go into debt, put us in a financial bind. Therefore, I'm out. And essentially, he opted out of this engagement by continuing these habits that you made clear. Am I hearing that right? >> Yes, that's correct.

>> Wow. >> I mean >> I mean that's your choice. That's your prerogative. >> I say bullet dodged cuz this is it's either this or a divorce later on.

I'd rather, you know, nip it in the bud while we can. >> Yeah. So many people I would really I mean I wasn't there. I'm just going by what you said but based on what you said I would applaud you for it cuz so many people >> ignore red flags cuz you get so far down the line it's like I can't turn back now and it's kind of like a sunk cost >> or scarier.

>> Well >> never going to happen. >> Okay. Now if he called into the show Brianna what would he say if he were to defend his honor?

You know, I I I would say that he he's always tried to maintain a job, but it's just never worked out. Before I previously knew him, he was employed for seven years doing software sales, and now he just can't ever since I got together with him, he can't hold a job just because the market's been so unsteady. >> And how long was the entire thing? How how long was the dating and then the the the engagement?

>> Um, total everything was about two and a half years. Listen, I think that's long enough to get a a read on the situation.

It's not like this was super fast. I I think that again, I wasn't there, but you made the choice. You had enough time to see a track record and you seem like

your thoughts are composed, so I'm going to ride with you on this because you are the one telling us your side of it, and it makes sense to me. Now, he could call in and say something different, but still at the end of the day, it's your choice. So, >> yeah. Thank you. So what's the second part of the question?

>> Yeah. So I would like to be able to better now that I've taken on I've asked him to move out. I've taken on full financial responsibility of like paying our rent and then um while we were together I purchased a car um because I was able to make up that payment with having him here. Now that I have >> Hold on, Brianna. You went into debt during the engagement.

>> Yes. And that was primarily because he kept telling me that I needed a new car.

What were you driving before?

>> I was driving a Nissan Ultima that needed quite a bit of maintenance.

>> Got you. And what did you get? What did you >> I got um 2025 Mazda CX70.

>> What do you owe? >> I owe about 50 on that.

>> Shoot. >> What do you make?

>> I make about um about $100,000 a year.

>> That's a lot of car even for your income. >> Is that your only debt or you have more?

Um, I have about uh 15 grand in student loans and then I have like two grand in credit card debt, but that's it.

>> Okay, here's my thing, Briana. I was really team Briana and now the more I hear you, the more I go, I'm not sure you believe in your own principles cuz you wanted this guy to clean up his act financially while you were an accomplice to the crimes.

[laughter] So, it's like, how am I supposed to take you seriously if I'm the fiance going, you really need to get better with your spending habits and then I'm over here financing a $50,000 car. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's difficult because he drives a a BMW X4M competition. So it

was just that terrible to get a nice car. >> So you were trying to keep up with him and it's his fault. But still lifestyle.

>> It does seem like though it was more Can I I'm a ride on the fence on this. I I hear what George is saying and he is not wrong. Uh but the other part is I feel like you were more on the why doesn't he have a job regularly >> side of things.

is the fact that it will this guy be employed or will he be sitting on my couch all day when I come home? Is that Did I get that right?

>> Yeah. And that's kind of what it had been before, too. So, that's why I had asked him to move out.

>> Because to your I I am playing devil's advocate here. I'm just I'm just letting you know. >> She got me riled up. That's all I'm saying.

She got a plank in her eye and she's looking at the spec. >> Because here's the thing. There are plenty of people in the world who are fine with debt. We know that.

We don't agree with that. But plenty of people are like, "Yeah, I got my car, not my credit card." For a lot of people, that's not the problem. The problem is when you have somebody who's not working and seems like they might not be able to hold a job and seems like they might be a tad bit lazy. I could see how that's a bigger red flag to you.

Um, in the grand scheme of things, that being said, you can't be the what is it? The pot calling the kettle. >> Black. >> Black.

>> Yeah. No, I see both sides. I think you were right to break off the engagement and I think we need to accept a little more responsibility that we weren't quite the angel that we maybe made ourselves out to be and he's the devil here. I think both of you had bad money habits.

money moves and you were looking to him to be a leader and guide you and he couldn't do that. >> He was in a place of weak weakness too.

And so it's hard to fault him for that as much as I want to be like well this guy's trash and you should [laughter] I think you both have some things to work on. Can we agree?

>> Yes. No, I completely agree.

>> And I hope that if you if this is a value you have, I want someone who can provide for me. I don't think that means I want someone who can float my lifestyle no matter what and afford a payment. I want you to reframe this and go, how can I put myself in such a good financial position? Then when I do meet the right guy, we are building wealth together instead of just making stupid decisions together.

>> And there's part of this where if let's say you, you know, you've you've broken it off, you guys have gone your separate ways. If it's meant to be, you could go get back together. Like you could give him a that could have been the kick in the butt that he needed to go out and really show and prove who he's going to be because the truth is you've just never seen it.

want to see. You don't want all the talking. You want somebody to be about it. >> I love that Jade is not giving up on love here. Is there [laughter] is there a shot this could still work, Brianna, or is this like long gone?

>> You know, we've tried to make it work.

Um, we still like sometimes see each other and stuff, but it's just I don't see any motivation from him to want to be better. Um, he's determined to get a job that's been in the process of about six weeks now and he still >> has been doing any kind of work.

>> Um, no. >> What's he doing all day?

>> I don't know.

>> I think you better cut it loose.

>> Yeah. >> Well, the writing was on the wall, Briana. And uh the good news is you're going to be real busy cleaning up this mess of your own for a while. And I think you also we need to own up to the fact that we made a lot of decisions that were codependent and hinging on someone we weren't married to.

>> I can make the rent as long as he pays.

I can make the payment as long as he's in my life. And I think all of that is why we tell people never combine financial lives or for that matter physical lives living together before you're married. It just gets too messy because this could be on the other side.

Mhm. And yeah, now you're going to now you're going to feel that being the only one covering that rent.

>> Yeah, I'm wishing you the best as as you clean this up. Personally, I would sell that car as soon as possible. I wouldn't even work on paying it off. I would get rid of it. There's no reason you you need to be driving a $50,000 car walking out of this mess. So, best of luck to you, Briana.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is88255225.

Don't be scared. You can't DM. You got to call in. It's the only way, my Gen Z friends. I know it's uncomfortable to call on a phone, but they still do that.

I found out. >> You can't text in. You have to call.

>> One day we'll get there. That'll be like our Patreon edition. That'll be fun. All right. Gabrielle is on the line in Detroit. Gabrielle, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you. Um, my question is,

should I apply for my first credit card so I don't have to continue paying for everything in cash?

>> No. [laughter] >> Where is this coming from?

>> So, right now you're paying for everything with actual physical dollars.

>> Um, cash I mean as in well that in just

money in my bank account >> like your own money. Okay. And so what is your fear with using your own money from your own bank account with a debit card?

Um, I guess I mean I know that a credit card can help me build my credit. I do have other lines of credit open, just not a credit card. And also I guess sometimes

it's going to sound silly, but it's kind of hard to let go of some cash all at once. So the idea of paying it in increments by the due date is somewhat appealing. What if I told you that that is that's your body saying >> don't make a stupid decision.

>> When you say letting go of a lot of money at once, what would be the purchase here?

>> Um I don't have anything in particular, just my day-to-day transaction. So things like groceries, gas, maybe like a leisurely item here and there. >> So you'd rather lump it all into one giant mountain and then 30 days later have that come out of your account if you're lucky?

I guess not.

>> That's even scarier to me because I've been there. I was that guy who opened the credit card to build the credit, who racked up a bunch of debt on there and the barren the balance carried. So, I'm telling you, as a guy who did this, you don't want to do this. How old are you?

>> I'm 24. >> Okay. Have you ever had a credit card?

>> No. >> Wow. And you've survived to tell the tale. >> I just think it's interesting.

Okay. Our screen says I don't want to pay for everything in cash, which kind of feels a little bit like um it doesn't feel like it's as much of a credit card and building is it for building credit or is there something else behind this like are you I'm just trying to understand because the this might sound simple but in my mind I'm thinking if I want to buy something I should use my money to buy it. That's the whole purpose of working is so that you have money to purchase the things that you want and need and you feel purpose in doing that.

And so I there's part of me that kind of feels like credit cards take away that feeling of satisfaction.

Where does that bother you?

>> Like I'm trying to understand kind of your take on this.

Um, I like I said, I guess just I you

know, people always tell me that you should have a credit card to build your credit. I don't know if I should need that. Just my friends and family.

>> Are your friends outstandingly wealthy that you look up to them and go, I want to be them when I grow up.

>> Um, not exactly.

>> So, >> there's one reason to not listen to them. >> There's there's a f there's a foundational difference here. And so where George and I are coming from is we're I mean you might be new to this show but everyone here is kind of the mind not kind of we are of the mind that we don't need or rely on credit at all

for our lives because like I said before we have jobs our jobs earn money and we've learned to live on the money that we earn. And when we do that we keep ourselves out of debt and we keep ourselves out of risk in general in life because we're just using and spending the money that we have. We're using that money to pay for our day-to-day needs.

We're using that money to save up emergency funds so that we don't need to rely on credit cards. And so that's where George and I are approaching this.

And it sounds like some of the people that you've been talking to have a different uh view of life. And their view of life is your money is not enough. And so you have to get credit because they can give you the money you need to have the lifestyle you want. And the only way to get credit is if you can have debt. And so it's this it's this uh

pingpong between debt and building credit and more debt and building credit. And when you do your life like that, you're just constantly caught in that that limbo. You're never debtree and you're never actually living on the money that you earn and you're in this constant state of risk to play that game when you don't have to.

>> That's understandable. I appreciate you sharing that. You know, and I want to take it a step further and George can help me with this because I think Gabrielle, what happens it's truly, and

I don't say this to be ugly to anybody, I truly think a lot of people don't know and don't have the the education to understand you can buy cars without a credit score and you can get apartments without a credit score and you can buy homes without a credit score. They that's not taught in our culture. I mean, we're really the only ones talking about it over here at Ramsey Solutions.

It's become controversial over time just to pay cash for things >> because when you pay cash for things, no one's really making any additional money off of you. So, a lot of companies don't like that. They don't like that we say this. And I kind of want you to hear

that. Like, we're teaching you something that you can live and be self- sustainable. And no one's constantly making money off you, right? They're not making money off you on interest and payments and late fees. That's that's really what this argument is about. You don't have to play that game. So, I hope you hear that with a clear, you know,

what is it? Clear minds, clear hearts.

[laughter] >> Yes. >> Clear eyes. Clear clear eyes, full hearts can't lose is what it is.

>> Thank you, James. Texas forever. I'm

curious. You said you wanted this to build credit. Why do you feel like you need to build credit?

>> Um, I guess in case I ever needed to take like another loan out in the future, cuz right now, like I said, I do have three other lines of credit open.

Um, >> what are those lines of credit?

>> I have a mortgage, a car loan, and some student loans. >> Okay. And so your path is let's get more lines of credit to get more lines of credit to get more debt to get more lines of credit. That seems to be the path.

>> I guess that's what I thought I should be doing. >> Well, I'm trying to what I'm trying to do is unravel this to show you the the insanity that America has fallen into.

And so when you really look at what credit scores are for, it's a it's a

magic number that was given to us by the credit gods to get us into more debt.

And so when you decide, I'm done with debt. I don't want a car loan anymore. I don't want the student loan anymore. You no longer have a need for credit. And even when it comes to buying a house, I've bought a house with no credit score. And we teach people, save up and pay for a a car you can afford in cash.

>> Mhm. >> And then you don't need credit because they don't check your credit score when you pay cash. Because let's just play this out down the line, Gabrielle. What happens if you What happens if you do what you called in to do?

What you just say, you know what? I don't want to use my own money anymore. I'm going to use credit credit cards. What happens is each month you have a revolving balance and if you're lucky, you pay it off.

If if you're not, you you keep some of it there. And so you end up now with a car note, a student loan, and then credit cards. And I'm my question for you is what does that get you?

besides debt? >> I I guess the material item of whatever it was I purchased, >> which was probably not a wise me.

>> And here's what I found. When you use someone else's money, you look at it differently. When you use your own money, you start to go, "Oh crap, that's money leaving my bank account right now." >> Well, that's science, George. Like that's actual there's actual psychological studies on what happens when you use credit card that's plastic versus credit card that's your debit card versus cold hard cash. Your body

becomes more and more removed from the process the more and more it's removed from being actual money in your hand.

Even something like Apple Pay even though it's your money. >> But their tagline is cashless made effortless. They want to make spending so effortless. And here's what I found Gabrielle now for 10 years living with a debit card. When it hurts less, it costs more. You spend more, you're hoping you

can make the payment, you're lucky to make the payment. I found when I use my debit card, I don't need hope or luck. I can actually pay attention to my money and when I run out, I can't spend anymore. >> And to me, that is a great way to build wealth and it adds really healthy guard rails.

So, that's why I'm recommending all of this to you and I unpack all of this in the credit cards chapter of my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm telling you, you will want to take a shower after reading that chapter. I unpack the studies. I go through every objection that's in your mind.

I'll show you how to live live life outside of the credit card and credit score system. So, hang on the line. Our team's going to pick up and we will gift you Breaking Free from Broke. You can choose audiobook, ebook, the hardcover copy, however you like to read.

We want to make sure we get it into your ears or in your hands. Thank you so much for the call. Great question. Love your heart around this.

And I hope we've convinced you to stay away from these gross companies cuz listen, Capital One's out here sponsoring the Taylor Swift Tour. We can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift Tour. Who is winning here? It's not us.

It's the companies with the big buildings downtown.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

Thanks for being here. I'm Jade Warshaw.

Next to me is bestselling author George Camel. Today's question of the day is brought brought to you by Y Rei. If you're in over your head with private student loans and tired of getting calls from collection agencies, I know how that feels. You need Y refi. Y Refi

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>> Today's question comes from Peter in Wisconsin. My son let his home get to within 10 days of foreclosure before telling my wife and me that they were in trouble. He has $350,000 in equity. I

could not let this happen. So, I paid the 35,000 that was owed, which made them current on their loan. I've explained to him and his wife they need to sell the house and get the equity out and start using the Ramsay plan to manage their money. Now, they won't talk to me or my wife. Did I do the right thing in helping them out?

Well, clearly not. if it destroyed the relationship. I think it was well intended and a very sweet thing to do, but the problem is they didn't seem to ever ask for your help or your opinion in these matters. >> And it it all has to do with how you explained it.

Were you like, "Look at what you did. You guys never should have been, you know, like that's different than [laughter] explaining it in a better way." >> No, he seems like a wonderful person. I think it's I think it's on them that, you know, they reacted this way cuz he said before telling my wife that they were in trouble, so he came to him. >> Yeah.

This had clearly been going on for months. This foreclosure doesn't happen after one month of missing a payment.

And he goes, "Hey, we're in trouble." So clearly he was looking for help by going to the parents, letting them know about this problem. >> And so I think truthfully there's a lot of shame and guilt here.

>> I think you're right. >> And now it's it makes the relationship kind of like a business transaction where you you come across like a lender >> and now it's awkward cuz I need a daddy to swoop in and fix my mess. Well, they don't say there is an interesting piece missing from this on whether or not the kids owe the 35,000 back to mom and dad.

>> It doesn't sound like he he wants or needs the money. >> So, yeah, if he said, "Well, when I asked for the money, they stopped talking to that would make more sense." >> Yeah. >> Versus a gift of like, "Hey, listen. I'm going to get you guys out of this bind, but you got to please follow this plan." I I bet it was a well-intended situation, >> but my worry is >> if you didn't save them, like they're going to be right back in this mess.

And so, >> exactly.

>> And so, even getting them current on the loan doesn't solve their problem, that's why he's saying, "You guys need to sell the house, get the equity out, do the do this the right way." So, my fear is they end up right back here and go, "Dad, I'm in a bind again. We're behind three months on payments." Because they didn't actually change their habits. Yeah, I agree with you, George.

Uh, call into the show and maybe we can talk more through it. It's a very interesting situation, but did I do the right thing in helping them out? I think it was a noble thing to do. It's what, you know, personally, I love my daughter.

If she was in a bind, I would do anything for >> 100%. Yeah. >> But again, if she didn't ask for it, I don't know. Uh, but they asked, he came to them with the problem.

My daughter knocks on my door and says, "Hey, we're on the brink of foreclosure. I'm going to do whatever I can to help them out." Yeah.

So, I don't know that I could have done anything differently. >> Yeah. I mean, it's different. There's one thing. It's kind of like you don't want to be an enabler. Like if it was a situation where this has been going on for a long time and helping them would be in a sense giving a drunk a drink or

it's very possible that they just had, you know, a slurry of really tough things happen and it just resulted in this, you know, foreclosure situation and mom and dad were like, "Listen, we can help, you know." So more details are needed. But George, I think you're exactly right. >> I would have been like, "Hey, I'll give you the 35, but you guys are going to go through Financial Peace University tomorrow." >> Yeah. Matter of fact, >> you're going to go through every lesson.

If we can send that to Peter to to send to the the the son and >> daughter have his email, right, producer James. >> Yeah, we'll try to we'll give that to them as a gift and see if we can get them on track cuz I want to help them for the rest of their life, not one time in a bind. >> Yeah, that's good. All right, we've got Ann in St.

Cloud, Minnesota.

>> Hi, this is Ann. Um, thanks for taking a

call today. >> Sure. >> You bet. >> What's up? Um, so my question for you is

basically should I quit my job? So a

little bit of background. My husband and I, we got married, had a baby, and bought a house all in one. >> I hear that baby hooting and hollering.

>> Yeah, he is going to be a little bit whiny in the background. So my apologies. >> Did you say you got married, bought a house, and had a baby all in how long?

>> One year. >> Woo! Mama. Okay. >> And what's your current job? Wow. Um, so I work as a min administrator for a ministry and the problem is there is some morally

corrupt stuff going on with the leadership.

>> Yeah, it's so unfortunate. It was like a

dream job when I took it.

>> Um, and so good for our family, but now it's like I kind of have no choice but to leave. >> Yeah.

>> So, what's next? just kind of >> we know you're leaving. >> We need to line something up. I don't want you just quitting and going, "Well, I'll just figure it out over the next four months." >> Yeah. What What's the income you need to try to make up here?

>> Well, barebones budget, my husband and I will be able to make it by without even dipping into our emergency fund. So, that's the good. >> So, living off of his income?

>> Yes. He can take overtime, which is super super helpful, but it's not a way to live. >> Yeah. So, what what were you making?

>> I was making about 3,800 a month.

>> Okay. So, we need to make up that income or at least most of it.

>> Mhm. And that's kind of the thing. My husband's really supportive. Um, but I

don't know what my next step is. And my I don't want to put my child in daycare.

>> So, I might look for some at home admin work, but I'm really just >> not even sure where to start. Well, um, let's kind of start by the looking at the financial picture so we can know what needs to be done. Do you What baby step are you guys in? Do you have debt?

>> Um, luckily we're in baby steps four, five, and six. >> Good. Okay. >> How much is in the emergency fund?

>> We have about um $36,000.

>> Wow. That's a big old emergency fund.

>> Is that too much? >> Well, it sounds like it's a lot more than six months based on what you've told me.

>> Yeah. Both of our take-home pay is um

about 7,500 a month.

>> Okay. Alto together. >> Okay. Good. So you >> So you're looking more for help on the career side of what to do next for a job? >> Um I'm looking for that and just if I can afford to stay home with him, too.

So if could I afford to? >> Well, you just told us on a bare bones budget you can get by, but that's if he works overtime. So it's not super >> no way to live, >> right? So, we need to get his income up or you need to work part-time in order for this to make sense.

>> So, what would it look like? You know, you were doing the job in the ministry.

Is that something that you would want to do again at another ministry? Do you know, tell us more about what you feel like you're qualified to do and the work that you would want to do.

>> I I have put her on hold with the baby yelling. You can get her back, Jade.

>> Let's see. Where is she? Line two. Sorry about that. Ann, >> there it is. [laughter] >> That baby's got pipes. I know. She's She's rolling in. Here's what I think.

I'll just kind of give you the synopsis of what I think. I think you guys need to get on to Every Dollar. Do you have Every Dollar. >> We do.

>> Okay. Then I think you guys need to get on there and figure out, okay, what what amount of money? Cuz it may not be a full 3,800, but what amount of money would take you out of that unsustainable place to where it's like, okay, we're not on bare bones. Husband's not having to work overtime all the time, and we can kind of live a life like this.

and maybe it is 3,800, but then after that it's all about you sitting down and going, "Okay, what can I do? What would I like to do?" And then I'm getting on all the sides. I'm getting on glass door. I'm looking to see what's available.

I'm looking for work from home options. I'm looking for part-time options. And I think at this point, you're just kind of pounding the pavement, as they say, and knocking on doors to get another job. >> And we can help you with that.

Ken Coleman has a great book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do cuz maybe this is the career path in the administrative space. Maybe it's not. So, we're going to send you this resource. With that, you're going to get the get clear career assessment.

Take that and then start talking to your friends and say, "Hey, does this line up? All of this assessment stuff, what I'm does this line up with who you know me to be, my personality, what I'm wired to do." And that might be a work from home admin job.

>> And you know, maybe you go make some crazy money and you go, I want to get a full-time nanny in house cuz I want to do daycare. You have the options. But we do have to figure out the financial piece. >> Yeah.

But the good news in this is because you guys did the right thing. It frees you up to now for you to be able to do the right thing with this job. You don't have to stay in a job where, you know, morality is being questioned or, you know, negative things are happening or even illegal things. I don't know what's going on over there, but you got the emergency fund and you can get out and you can get another job hopefully that pays more.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel [music] joined by Jade Warshaw. If you didn't know, we've got a Ramsey Network app where you can tune in to all of the shows distractionfree, including this show. All three hours are in the app and we also have a place where you can ask questions and we'll occasionally answer those on air.

So this one is from Dylan from the Ramsey Network app. What does he have to say, Jade?

Should we wait to get married so she can graduate debtree?

>> Wow, >> that's very interesting. >> What an intersection. >> I want to know more. I want to know what the time frame is like. Are we talking

um six months? You know, are we talking

four years? I want to know more about this. Um my thought, >> can we cash flow? If we don't get the grants and scholarships, can we still cash flow? >> Yes. >> And avoid debt. >> I mean, there's part of this where I go, okay, I'm thinking traditional college

student, so maybe she's what, 18, 19 going in. Uh,

I don't know, George. I feel like we need more information. I'm going to say if it's a year to postpone it, maybe.

And I want to know how much school is talking. When did you plan on getting married? Were you going to wait for her to graduate anyways? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So many questions. So little answers.

>> So little answers. I can't answer this in good faith and really know what's going on. >> And how much would we be? Is we talking $100,000, >> right? Or are we talking $40,000? I don't know. Can you even go to school for 40,000? Um, >> it's an interesting one though. I don't think there's a straight answer here of absolutely you should wait or absolutely don't wait and just cash flow it.

>> But Dylan, call in. I want to know more about this. >> I know. And I Does it have to be for the entire four years or are we talking semester by semester? Maybe you take it semester by semester and go, okay, you know, she starts Okay, it's about to be November. So, the new semester comes up here after Christmas break. Maybe she

does that one and you guys reassess >> and go, can we cash flow the rest and just combine incomes and get married and we've got it from here. So that that would kind of be my thing is how can we put ourselves in a position to not need the grants and scholarships >> if we're itching to get that wedding and get married. >> Yeah. Well, either way either way we don't go into debt. I think that's the key point coming out of here. Um

>> debt's not on the table and if that if it means you have to wait a little bit that might be the the question the the solution. All right, we got some. That was good. Good question, though. All right, >> it was all right. We need more details.

>> Let's go to [laughter] Todd in Phoenix, who we can actually talk to. That's nice. Todd, what is happening with you?

>> Hi. Uh, we're My wife and I, we've been kind of going back and forth on selling our home to pay off uh some debt. I'

I've been kind of an idiot the last few years. And uh >> we can all say that at some point in our lives. >> Thank you for having the self-awareness. Yes. >> Pulled money out when, you know, to build a pool and do things we probably didn't need to do. Um, and you know, we

I I guess the the issue, we pay our bills, we eat, we we live, you know,

pretty pretty normal lives, but it's

gotten tighter and tighter and it feels like we're not not really moving at all.

Kind of just spinning our wheels. And so, >> what's your household income?

Uh about 170.

>> And what how much consumer debt do you have? >> Everything but the mortgage. >> Uh about 182.

>> Okay. Yeah, you're feeling it. What kind of debt? So you tell us, can you break down that 182? And by the way, does that include the mortgage? >> Yes. >> No. >> Oh, it doesn't. Okay. Can you break it down for us?

So, we did a a heliloc for 60 um and

built a pool and actually paid off paid

off some debt with that which we then kind of racked up again.

>> Uh another uh personal loan for about 57

uh got a car loan that's got 17 on it.

>> What was the personal loan for? What' you spend the 50? Is it >> 57,000 or 5700?

>> 57,000. >> Okay. What was that for? >> Really stupid. Uh I I I I outsmart

myself from time to time and I thought, "Okay, I'm going to do this personal loan and we're going to pay off debt." Like, we paid off both of our cars and uh and and used it what I thought was

kind of the right way, but then have since uh just kind of racked up money in

other areas. >> Okay. >> So, you you took on debt to pay off other debt while changing zero habits, and you were right back to where you were. >> That's a cautionary tale for anybody listening. We talk about that all the time. So, you're teaching a lot of people. Thank you, Todd, for being transparent. What else do you have? So, the 57,000 personal loan. What's next?

>> Uh, I've got the now I have another car loan now for 17. Uh, about 20 grand in

credit card debt and then 28 and like I

did a debt consolidation kind of thing to get rid of uh kind of same same

thing. Get rid of credit cards to >> man. Okay. transferred to zero, you know, 0% like transfer.

>> Are we are we done playing the game, you think? Like, are you >> You're like, "All right, I'm not going to move debt around to other debt. I want a way out. So, what are you thinking about doing?" >> You know, >> well, so debating [clears throat] selling like uh my wife is not not on

board. Uh, >> you wanted to sell the house >> possibly selling our house to pay off pay off debt, but it wouldn't it wouldn't pay off everything. >> But do you want to know why I don't like that for you? Do you want to know why I don't like that for you?

>> Cuz it's the same thing you've been doing. >> It's another one of Todd's schemes, Todd shortcuts. And I think, and don't get me

wrong, um, when people get a great opportunity, maybe they get a large sum of money, they get an inheritance, they get a large bonus, or they were going to move anyway, and it ends up clearing their debt, I'm happy for them. But you have laid out a very long pattern of the

same behavior. And I'm not getting on to you for it. I'm just telling you what I see based on what you said. And I'm worried because the worst thing ever, Todd, would be that you sell your house

even when your wife didn't want to. when you wind up in debt again. So for you >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Walking through the Because I always tell people when you walk through the baby steps, right, George, that is the opportunity for you to change your habits because it's built in. You can't get out of the baby steps without changing your habits. It's automatic almost. Yeah. >> And so I as as painful and as tough as

it can be, I would prescribe if I were the person writing the prescription that you walk through the baby steps and you do this the oldfashioned way.

>> Okay? And we've done that before. I mean, we we have we have been relatively debt like I said minus a car payment or some you know we've paid off credit cards before. We've paid you know.

>> But you've never been completely debtree while you've been married.

>> No. No. I mean when we first bought our house the only thing we had was the house and a car loan.

>> Uh >> is your wife on is she on board to do the baby steps? Cuz I think what you're going to have to go back to her and say is all right fine. We won't sell the house, but we're going to have to sacrifice like crazy.

>> No, she she's much uh she's much more

responsible than I am. >> Okay. I was going to ask who's the spender >> like it's it's me and and she she doesn't insist on anything. Like she doesn't ask for, you know, to to do any of the things that I I come up with.

It's mostly like >> So she's been a passive passenger for all of your schemes.

>> Yeah. She never she never tells me no.

>> Not even a disdainful look. I don't I don't think my wife would allow me to do all this and not like have a blow up argument yelling at me.

>> How has she been totally cool with all of this?

>> Since we I mean we we pay our bill like you wouldn't you know >> looking in. We we pay our bills. We you know I haven't made a payment on anything in you know 20 years. It's so everything is comfortable but it's less comfortable.

>> And that's what I want to warn you about Todd going into this. Um, it's George and I see both sides of this all the time. When people call in and their income is low and they've got to go out and hustle and grind to get the money, it's almost easier for them to do what we teach than a person like you who has a great income and you're going to have to downsize. And kind of what you just said before, like the debt didn't really show.

We were able to cover it up and make the payments on time. D. When you get out of debt, I'm just letting you know right now, it shows and it's going to show. and the that same part of you that kind of liked being able to show off with the money and the pool and doing all those things.

I'm I'm talking to you because I recognize myself in what you're saying.

Your family's going to see it. Your friends are going to see it. You're going to feel it and that's just part of the process. Don't let that deter you.

That's how you know it's working. That's how you know the medicine's getting in.

>> That's right. So, let's get to work. I mean, 60K a year throwing at this debt, 3 years, it's all gone. Making 170. How do we find that margin? We [music] need to make more. We need to spend less.

Let's get to it. Thanks for the call, Todd. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Jade Warshaw, [music] all the folks in the booth, and you, America, will be back before you know it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jay Warshaw. Open phones at 888255225.

Joseph is in Pittsburgh up next. What's going on, Joseph?

>> Yes. >> What's happening?

What's going on? How are you?

>> Good. What's your question today?

>> Uh my girlfriend going to be fiance is

going and I are going to be bu building a house costing around $700,000 and we

want to know if we're way over our heads or if this is actually feasible.

>> Numbers aside, you're in way over your heads. There's not even a ring on the finger and you're going to sign up for a mortgage and put your names on a deed together.

No, the by the time that the deed is there, there would be a ring on the finger.

>> So, this is going to be a new build and you're just hoping that all the plans work out perfectly.

>> Yes. Um, we we do have the ability to live with either of our parents rentree.

Um, obviously that's not ideal, but we're going to have to do that >> um while the house is being built. Why do we have to do any of this? Yes.

>> Tell let me lay out a different path and you tell me why it doesn't work for you guys. >> Why not get engaged, get married, rent

together, save up on your own, and then

purchase a house or build when you're financially ready? >> Yeah. What's the rush? >> So, we would like to start a family early um around 2028, 2027. And our

initial thoughts are renting is putting money into a place that doesn't build us wealth. So, we might as well put it towards a house that's going to be building us well. And if we have to live with our parents for a year or two, we're perfectly fine with that because we do have stable jobs that we're able to >> How much money do you guys have right now?

>> Right now, we have about

$60,000 in savings and then a little bit more in checking. >> How much do you plan on putting down on this $700,000 house?

So, we are looking to put down around between 100 and 130,000 down on the house. And then her parents are extremely wealthy and they were planning on matching whatever >> we put down. So, 260.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. And why do you need a $700,000 home as newlyweds >> in Pittsburgh? >> We are looking We are looking to have kids. So, it's in the suburbs and we're going to be building so that we don't have as many maintenance house issues.

Um, simply put, we're trying to set ourselves up for the future where we don't have to move. We don't have to do all these other things. We're just on that path of get a house and live there.

>> What's your incomes? >> Not a custom build. Um, our income we

are both around 32 to 35,000 a month.

>> A month?

>> Yes. And that is not including commission. >> So you both are >> not a,000. 3,200.

>> Good. I was about to show

>> like, well, yeah, you guys are making [laughter] a million dollar. Okay. So you're making like 70 grand and you're How are you going to afford a $5,000 a month mortgage? Yeah, that's what I'm doing because I just we both did the math. That's funny. >> We also So, we also she has commission.

She is an insurance agent, so she has commission coming back for her. I also own my own company that brings in 2 to 3,000 as well on top of that a month.

>> So, you're at 10,000

a month. >> About that. Yeah. >> So, we're already setting ourselves up where half of our take-home pay goes toward the mortgage. >> Yeah. You're still at half. before you were even worse. But even with the 10,000 what I'm seeing on here 4500

for for the mortgage if you put down $ 260 on a $700,000 house you're house

poor. >> Right.

Right. >> And you're fine with that?

>> No, we're not fine with that at all. We we're obviously going to be expanding our our income. We're trying to see if

this is feasible now because we do have

career projections going forward that it

won't be anywhere close to that. As well as my business and her commission are

projected to double. >> Everything you're saying, Joseph, I'm I'm with you. I love dreams. Like I love a good dream. I love to plan. I love goals. But you're setting yourself up um in a situation where everything must go as planned for this to work out. And even if it does go as planned, you're still setting yourself up for several years of a situation where your house is 50% where your house poor for several years. So even if everything is perfect, you're still setting that up, which is not good. I truly truly would love for

you to slow down a little bit on this

and say, "Okay, let's do all of this, but let's just do it in the right order and at the right time. Let's get married.

Then if you want to live with your parents, that's your prerogative. I wouldn't do it. But if you want to live with the parents to save more money faster, like that's y'all's choice if you want to do that. And then save up.

Make sure when you do buy a house, when it's time that it's the right percentage of your take-home. Make it to where you're not house poor. You have this amazing deal where your in-laws are going to match that amount. That's awesome. Milk it for all it's worth and make sure you get to a point where you can get this thing to 25%.

Okay. Then you're in a situation. I'm fine with you guys doing this thing believing that this is going to be the only house you ever buy for the next 20 years. If you want to believe that, that's okay. But let's Can we just do it right? Can we pump the brakes just a little so it's all done in the right time?

>> Yeah. Is this a thing where we need to increase our incomes first or a savings

and emergency fund kind of deal?

>> I think it's both. And you said that there's a there's a path where both of you guys earn more. And it's it's as you

do that, you're saving up more, too, right? Because I'm also looking at this on a 15-year fixed. My guess is that you were looking at it on a 30-year. Am I right?

>> Um I I have both in front of me, but yes, I was looking at a 30-year fix.

>> And again, all that you're doing that because you're trying to go fast. I want to go fast.

Why? You have your whole life together.

I get it. I know. I I get it. But

>> so I we are both 21.

>> Who who told you it's too late? Who told you you have to rush into this or else?

And you got to do this by this time and we're going to make this much. I just think we're there's something else going on here where you're wanting to rush the process and leapfrog into a lifestyle that you just can't afford yet.

>> No, we we've been dating for about four years and going to be graduating this upcoming May from college. Um, we're I'm

working around 50 to 60 hours a week.

She's working 30, going to be 40 this upcoming semester.

>> It was just one of those things where >> we were looking at it. Yes, we were dreaming big and we saw that we could afford it and we would still have extra income coming.

>> It's already artificially propped up with the in-laws money.

>> And so, I would go with what you guys can afford. And if you can get a $400,000 3-bedroom, I would do that and

have a small mortgage that you can knock out quickly and you can upgrade over time because the truth is you're going to hate your house 5 years from now for whatever reason and you're going to move. It's okay to move 6 years from now as your life changes. But we don't need to plan for well one day we're going to have five kids so we might as well get the fivebedroom now and just get ahead of it. We don't even have a ring on the finger.

So I would just do things in order.

You're a planner. You're futuristic. I have a lot of that in me, but I know I fall flat on my face when I make too many plans and one domino doesn't work out. What if she stays home once you guys have kids and you go, "Oh my gosh, well, we projected that her income would be 100,000 by now. This totally screws up our plan." So, I would move real slow and realize you don't need the lifestyle that her parents have today at 21 years old. It's okay for it to take a while.

That's actually healthy.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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The allnew Every Dollar is here. You've heard us talk about it. And now it's way more than just our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. Tiffany is up next

in New York City. What's going on Tiffany?

>> Hi George and Jake. Can you hear me well? >> Yes. What's going on?

>> Oh, okay. Perfect. So my mother-in-law,

she is currently six years old. She has nothing saved for retirement. Um she's pretty much banking on the idea that um my husband and I would take care of her when she's physically unable to uh work

anymore. >> Is she what's her what's her health like now at 60?

>> Um so she is blind in one eye. So she

used to work at a nail salon but because uh after losing bite in one eye she is unable to work there. Um, she is currently working as a ironically as a caregiver. >> Okay. What does she earn? Do you know?

>> Um, I don't know the exact amount, but I do know it covers basically her uh necessities, rent, utilities, food, and

transportation. >> So, has she is how long has she been single? How long has your father-in-law been out of the picture?

>> So, uh, father-in-law is still in the picture, but they're separated. Is there a divorce?

>> Okay. And how long But how long has that been? >> Um I would say over 20 years.

>> Okay. So she's had my point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own >> and you're just saying she's she just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're >> Yeah. So pretty much um she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. Um, and then with her current job now, she could only take on so many hours. Um, because she says physically she can't work uh full-time.

>> Um, so basically um she's just doing

what she can, but I'm just worried because she has she really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a um I think she has like 20k saved up um

but then when she was out of a job um after she lost her job working as a nail tech, she kind of went through all that.

So, >> she's basically at nothing now.

>> What's your husband say about all this?

What's he think?

>> Um, so their relation their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one.

Um, he recently got back into my husband's uh life, I would say. Um,

since 2020. Their relationship was a little bit strange because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. >> Um, and my husband was, I believe he was a teen when this had happened. So, she only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

>> Wow. >> Interesting. >> So, is he wanting to help her at all in any way or is he just are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, "Hey, we can't support you in any way."

>> I think he's at a a situation where of course he doesn't want his mother out on the street, you know, if something, god forbid, something were to happen. But um he also would I we've both kind of

agreed that there there would be a lot of resentment towards her. We have to bear all the financial responsibilities.

>> What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house? How does she live? >> So she Yes. So she is renting um but she's renting with two other roommates.

>> Great. >> So um >> so it's like Golden Girls over there or what?

>> Pretty much. >> Sounds awesome. That is awesome. Her rent is um her rent's $1,000. So she

explicitly it it is New York City, so rent's expensive.

>> So she has $1,000 for rent. What's your um financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

>> Um I think we're doing pretty well. We do have a um our first child that was born May of last year. Um so, uh the

only thing is of course with rent that we're paying and then there's daycare costs. Um unless we want to give up the I guess um

our retirement. I feel like um I don't

know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side

for her retirement.

>> It's it's not. But let's even see if it's necessary. So, the questions that I would have if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more facts. So, first off,

I'd want to make sure >> I'm not assuming that she wants, you know, me to take care of her. I want to know point blank. And so, I'd probably sit down and ask the question and >> Oh, no. Yeah. So when the situation

happened when she had lost her um job

earlier and she had to get surgery um eye surgery um around that time when she was out of the job she did come to my husband to ask for money >> just on a onetime thing or say hey you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement I hope you know those are two different things >> my hus my husband set a boundary he said I was he was going to only give her money for three months and he had expected her to get back her feet after, you know, she recovered.

>> Um, >> and he said that was it. I'm only going to give you money for 3 months and then you're sort of on your own. But of course, he he's a softy in the sense that if she was, you know, out of money and he may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen. >> Sure.

Cuz here's what I'm I'm going just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work cuz you lost your job because of your vision, right?

Though there's that, and then there's you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So, I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you kind of are making an assumption, and I can see why you're jumping to that.

I can see why you're doing that, but I'd want to know that. And then if it does seem like, hey, no, this really is the the expectation. I've gotten clarity on that. Then I'd want to know, okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances, right, George?

Like, you better be telling me what's your social security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills, right? >> If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of uh how much you're paying for those bills and what your spending is.

So, that's that's part of this deal, but I would really push to have her live an independent life. And that's going to take some coaching.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's going to sound like, you know, we love you. We want to make sure that you're taken care of. Uh we also need to have a plan for you to live independently. And right now, we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We live in a high cost living area. We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. So, here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you

into a sustainable place, but we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all of your bills. We can't do that. And then it's on her to figure it out. >> Yeah.

There's still time. There's time here for her to create something for herself. And if you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. So, if you can help her understand, okay, you're 60, you've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself.

Here's how you do it. I think that's a wonderful thing. Um, but all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her and then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. Um, that's what I would do.

And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you and you becoming bank of Tiffany is going to be a bad plan because you're right, it's going to create resentment and it's going to create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, "Well, why even work full-time? I can work part-time or maybe not work at all if they're just going to float my life." >> So that's this scary slippery slope that we're headed towards.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. So that's all that's going to be you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it, spit shake, saying, "I know you're a softy.

You can't give in." When she goes, "Yeah, but everything I've done for you," >> it's like, "Hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done, and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years." >> Mhm. I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is a lot of us experience these we start to see these crack cracks financially expose themselves in family members or in our aging parents and it's kind of like we just watch it happen from afar and you have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations.

You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path because a lot can happen in 10 years financially. You can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. So, if you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idally. Go be about some business and get some information.

>> And if you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. I want them to like when my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them. Not goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll.

>> And that's what that's the resentment it creates when you put this on your kids.

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>> [music]

[music] >> This is the Ramsay Show. George Camel is my host. I'm Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls.88255225

is the number to call. Hey George, I saw this sitting on our desk and I think it's worth talking about because we hear so much doom and gloom about Americans

not ready to retire or it's the American dream is dying. You know, here in America when it comes to money and this is really cool uh from CNN, number of 401k millionaire reaches new high.

>> Yes, I actually just talked about this this morning on Good Day Orlando. We did a media hit with the with the nice people over there and this is exactly what we talked about because there's so much hope stealing going on out there.

All you hear is there's a retirement crisis and the next president's going to screw this up and cause us to all be broke. And here's Fidelity saying actually we're at record highs in across our 401k accounts, they have half a million people who have balances of a million dollars or more in that one account. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> In just one 401k account, which is very encouraging. Average balance hit 1.6 6

million. >> That's great. That's great. >> So that's encouraging. So the question is, good for them, George. What about me and my 401k? I don't have a million.

Well, that's true. The average 401k out there is more like 126 grand.

>> So it's like a tenth. >> So how do you get there, Jade? Well, it takes consistent investing over a long period of time. So if you sporadically put 3% to get the employer match, yeah,

it's going to take a bazillion years to get a million. But if you follow the Ramsay plan, you get out of debt as soon as you can, 2 years or less, you get the emergency fund in place, you begin investing 15% of your household income into that retirement account, you will see that it doesn't take long for compound growth to to work its magic.

>> That's right. And we all the time around here, we're talking about 10% returns.

And anytime I talk about 10% returns, especially if it goes on social media, there's always somebody popping into the comments saying something like, "Well, where are you going to get that?" or "How could you get that?" or "That's impossible." And I always have to explain the idea that this is an annualized term. Number one, it's not to say that every single year you're going to get 10%. But over the lifetime of your investing, uh that is what you're getting. That's the average of all the years you've been investing.

down 6%. If you take into account all of those years, you're looking at 10 to 12% on average in the stock market. >> That's right. And when you look at them by year, most of the years are up years.

You know, you have those years that tank because something catastrophic has happened whether in politics or, you know, international, but it always recovers and it always recovers really in in our favor. >> I just looked at the S&P 500, which represents the total US stock market. I looked at the numbers, Jade, this morning, and in 2004, so 20 years ago,

>> we have 5xed since then.

>> Yes. >> So, if you had 10 grand, now you're talking 50 grand. And even if you started investing 10 years ago, your money would have went 2 and a2x. That's right. >> And so it's it's not a rocket science analogy here. You just need savings rate. How much money you're putting in plus time. That's the formula to become a 401k millionaire. >> Yeah. That's what we're looking at here. So your 401k is a great place to start.

We say all the time. Uh you know, we sometimes here we talk about baby step four and we kind of push past it, but it's worth talking about, George. Um because a lot of people have questions. A lot of people don't realize, okay, when I invest in my 401k at work, what

does that mean and where does that get me? So, let's take a moment and kind of explain that because I posted a video on Instagram last week about baby step 4 and I was overloaded with questions on, okay, what does that mean? Where do I go? What if it's Roth?

What if I get a match? So, let's take a moment and teach the people when we say baby step 4, what are we talking about? I'll start with the first part. So here we teach that you're not ready to invest until after you've paid off your debt, which is baby step two.

And after you've invested three to or and after you've saved 3 to 6 months of expenses. That's baby step three. From there, we then teach, okay, now you take 15% of the gross that you're making every single month. This is before insurance comes out, before taxes comes out.

You take that money and you're investing it. And we say, let's start with an employer sponsored account if there's a match. >> Yes. So, if you make a h 100red grand a year, you should see $15,000 in contributions in that retirement account.

That's 15%. And the strategy here is simple. Match beats Roth beats traditional. We go for the match first because it's a 100% return on our investment.

I put in 4%, the employer puts in 4%. Great. Next, we can move to all the Roth options available. All of that means is that the money is is uh put in after tax and grows taxree.

So, you're not going to be able to deduct it from your taxable income for the year like a traditional, but you never have to pay taxes again.

Uncle Sam doesn't touch it. That's like 2 million of net income, take-home pay.

So, I love that. Then, beyond the Roth options, like a Roth IRA or Roth 401k, you can move to any traditional options you have. >> That's right. And one one of the other things I love about investing is if I can set it and forget it. Like if you can if you're doing the 401k right now and you can go to HR and set it up and it happens like clockwork, that's wonderful because you don't even have to think about it. It's just happening monthly. It's money. You can almost pretend like it's never happened, right?

You're not thinking about it. And same thing if you have a Roth IRA, you could probably set it up to where that's coming out automatically on payday.

>> Because here's the thing, once if you don't do it on payday, good luck to It's not happening. >> It's not happening. [laughter] >> If you see that money in your bank account, it's hard to go, you know what I should do? Invest for the future.

You're going to go, "Oo, I'm going to buy me some stuff." >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, I love the idea of picturing like you never had that money. And then future you, it's going to feel like you found like a $20 bill in your coat pocket, except it's going to be like a $2 million bill [laughter] in your coat pocket. >> So, let's talk about George briefly because we got some time.

Let's talk about for the people who say, "Well, I make too much to invest in a Roth IRA." Well, the IRA does have limits, but there's ways around it with the Roth where you can do a backdoor Roth.

And all this means is you're going to use after tax money to fund an IRA and then you can immediately convert it to a Roth. And it's legal. It's a legal loophole. Totally legal. >> This is not like a life hack that's going to get you in trouble. And I would recommend working with a pro on all this. You can connect with one at Ramseyolutions.com to help. That's what I did when I came to Ramsey. I had an old 401k. I rolled it over to the IRA uh

from my Apple career. my my short one year and three-month Apple career, I had some some 401k money in there.

>> That's great. >> And so whether you're rolling over or you want to do a backdoor Roth, there's a lot of options for high income earners on top of that. There's the mega backdoor Roth. >> Yes.

Like it feels like a seven-year-old name. [laughter] >> The mega >> mega backdoor. >> And then for the people who are like, "Okay, Jade George, great. I'm maxing out my 401k.

I'm doing well. I'm maxing out a Roth IRA. What else can I do?" We love the HSA health savings account. If you have a high deductible insurance plan, that's a great way to go.

I mean, obviously when you put the money in at first, you're thinking, "This is for my health savings." But beyond $1,000, you're able to invest that money and uh by the time you turn 65, it doesn't have to just go to medical costs.

>> What if you're really doing well, George, and you're like, I did it all. I did the HSA, the the Roth the Roth IRA,

the 401k. What am I going to do next?

George, >> I would just invest in a general investing brokerage account. This is not connected to retirement but and you don't get tax advantages. >> Well, let's run it back a little simpler because some people are going when you say brokerage account, George, what do you mean? What is that? What is a brokerage account? What's a brokerage?

>> Well, it's simply an account for investing that you work with, you know, firm like you've we've all heard of Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab.

>> So, you can work with a pro on this. You can open these yourself and you just simply invest in, you know, this is what Dave does. He gets a big check that's not non-retirement. He goes, "I'm going to put it in an index fund inside of one of these accounts." >> It's not connected to it's not connected to your employer. It's not connected to your retirement. It's simply >> and you pay taxes on the money on the growth of that money and you don't get any tax deductions when you put it in.

So, there's no tax benefit, but the benefit is you don't have to wait till 60 to tap into it. I like that.

>> And you can use it for anything at any time. >> Okay. So, let's take it a step further. When we talk about investing that money, what are we talking about? We're talking about because a lot of people go, "Oh, I'm investing in single stocks, Apple, Nvidia, right?" and we're saying, "No, no, no. That's super risky. Let's invest

in mutual funds." Right.

>> So, this is like betting on a single horse versus betting on the racetrack.

>> Yeah. >> I'd rather just enjoy the game and go, we're all going to be winners if we put money into the race track itself. >> That's right. >> We're going to get all the horses in that race. And that's what you're doing when you invest in a mutual fund, which is like 90 to 200 plus, >> sometimes more. Yeah. >> And so, that's what you're betting on.

And you can see the return is a lot less rocky than a single stock of one company. Instead, we're going here's the top 500 companies we're all rooting for, the top 500 horses in the race, and that way you get the benefit of all of that growth. And there's different types of funds that he's talking about. We talk about growth funds, growth and income funds, aggressive growth funds, international.

Those are the four that we teach. You're spreading your eggs out. You're not putting them in one basket. So if your international fund is not doing very well, probably your growth and income fund is trucking along and doing just fine as it should.

And so that's how this works. That is baby step four in a nutshell. George, >> I wouldn't go that far. >> I would.

>> But you know what? You don't have to be a genius investor to make money in the stock market. You just got to ride it out.

Stay put. >> Stay put. All right. Keep tuning in to the Ramsay Show to learn more about how to manage your personal finances.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[music]

[music] You are listening to the Ramsay Show on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw. [music] Next to me is George Camel.

We're taking your calls all hour long.8825522. 88 8255225.

And if you didn't know it, you know, maybe you just watch the show and you just think we're two folks in a studio.

Actually, it's two very large buildings that we work from. And it's a lot of people in here. I think there's like over a thousand of us. >> That's right. >> Working in here day in and day out. Lots of different resources that we offer here. Um Ramsay education, Ramsey

Trusted Services, just to name a few.

Then there's all the stuff like Every Dollar and everything like that. and one of our favorite Ramsey Trusted. They're here to help you guys, okay? We you need help with things like real estate and we're here to help.

So, selling a house the Ramsey way, it's really what makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden. And we've got the right tools for you. Our Ramsey trusted program is really the only way for you to find an agent that you can trust. This person is going to keep you on track with the things that we teach here at Ramsey, which is so important.

you're going to get the best offer on your house and you're going to find the right house for you if you're looking uh to purchase a house.

And people will do anything, especially with this market. If you're trying to buy a house, people are doing bridge loans, people are doing zero down loans, >> for sale by owner, trying to save a buck. >> Oh gosh, >> now's not the time to do amateur hour.

>> I know. And you don't want a an agent who's so desperate to make a dollar that they'll kind of suggest things to you that are not good for you. Oh, well, if you want if you need to get your loan approved, just just do this. You don't want that.

You want what if you did a heliloc? And that way you could and no, our Ramsey trusted pros, they're not going to steer you wrong.

Remember, that's the goal. >> That's what you want. So, we're going to send you some of the top agents in your area. These are people that we trust.

Uh, you're going to get to review their stats. You're going to get to interview them yourself and decide which one of them that you want to work with cuz you're going to choose one of them. And these Ramsey trusted agents, they've got years of experience, okay? They're going to help you make the wise decisions, when it comes to pricing, when it comes to marketing, and they're going to help you choose the right offer. So, find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. Did I mention that it's free? at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

So that's what we're looking for. I love my Ramsay trusted pro that has helped us with our houses. She's great. >> You come you come like lifelong friends with some of these folks. They're amazing. >> Mandy Linfesty, shout out.

>> Shout out >> in the in the Middle Tennessee area, Williamson County. >> She'll appreciate that. >> I know she will. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elizabeth in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Elizabeth?

>> Hi. Um, how are you >> doing? Good. How are you?

>> Good. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure you could hear me up first. Definitely.

>> So, just to kind of get to the point, u

my stepmom and I don't have a really good relationship. Um, I recently found out that she has absolutely no retirement funds or plans. Um, and

there's just no way my husband or I could even think about helping her. M >> um and so I I just I'm not quite sure

what to do in this situation or like how to avoid feeling guilty that I can't help. >> Is she asking for help?

>> Um no, not yet. Um but

her and my dad aren't very financially

responsible. Um so it's >> How old are they? I'm worried that if some um she's 56.

>> Okay. Um >> uh >> Okay. How old is your dad? Same age.

>> Um he's 53.

>> Okay. >> Are they both working?

>> Um they are right now.

>> Okay. And what where does your dad come into play? Because you're talking a lot about stepmom here.

>> Um he's he doesn't work. He has a he he

works but he doesn't work at home. So, he has um he has a job as a truck driver

>> and um he he has like a pension that he's vested into, but that's only like $500 a month for when he retires. Um

>> have they told you about their financial situation?

>> My dad has. He's been very um vocal

about that. >> Is he worried about it when he tells you?

>> A little bit. Yeah.

Um just cuz that's not a lot of money to

live off of. >> Sure. What's your financial situation?

>> Um so my husband and I are currently in baby step two. >> Okay. >> Um we make 90,000 a year and we're scheduled

to have if if everything goes perfectly, we're scheduled to have uh 50,000 paid off by March of 2026.

>> And that's the full amount.

>> That's the full amount um minus our mortgage. But >> okay, great. Yeah, that's excellent.

Okay, so I I sympathize with what you're

saying because I, you know, they're your parents, you love them, you see them drowning, and you want to save them, right? But at the same time, you've got to get yourself into the raft first and save yourself so that you can pull him into somewhere safe. So, there's there's all of that there. Um, it sounds like your dad, at the very least, it sounds like he's willing to talk to you somewhat about this.

One thing that you could try is to say, "Hey, um, you know, dad, >> some of the things that you're saying, I I have felt that too. You know, we we we've been worried about the future for ourselves, and I found this plan. You know, it's called Financial Peace University. We've started working it, and it's working for us.

It's a lot of work, but it's helping us. You know, I'll send I'll send you a copy of it." And maybe you do it like that. Um, as opposed to >> because you're not Here's the thing.

>> And you're not responsible for their life and their decisions. >> Yeah. >> As much as you might have empathy for their situation. And we know that you can't change people.

We've tried. I wish I could. You know, you can't. Your personal trainer can't care more about you losing weight than you. >> Yeah. >> It just it doesn't work. >> You can hold up the oxygen. They don't have to inhale.

>> And so part of this is having the hard conversation and saying, "Listen, I can't take care of you guys if you don't take care of yourselves. I'm not we're not going to be able to have you, you know, move in with us and have us float you if you didn't prepare. Now, the good thing is they're not that old. No, they're not. >> They're they're probably, you know, if they work really hard for the next 10, 15 years, they could have a decent little nest egg and retire with some peace. Would you agree?

>> Um uh >> why are they why is there no hope for them at this point?

>> Well, it's not so much that there's there's no hope for my dad. It's just um my stepmom really loves to shop >> and so >> and is she going into debt for this?

>> Uh yeah, she has in the past. Um it's caused them to go through bankruptcy twice now. >> This is >> even more so this is becoming an issue you can't solve because this these are marital issues. There are financial issues that you're seeing. You're seeing the symptoms on the outside in a financially speaking, but these are marital issues that you I mean, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this.

>> And with any kind of misbehavior, if you throw money at it, you're just going to be enabling more of the same misbehavior. >> She's not just going to change her habits because you gave her $5,000.

She's going to go, "Woo! Shopping spree." >> How long have they been married? How long has she been your stepmom?

um 16 years now.

>> Okay. So, this is locked in. What's your relationship with her?

>> Um it's really terrible. Um she was

physically and verbally abusive when I was little. >> Oh my gosh. Sorry.

>> So, yeah. >> So, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You're looking at this and you're going, "This woman is dragging my dad down >> a little bit." Yeah.

And so yeah, you're you're mad.

>> Have you brought this to your dad? Have you shared your honest feelings with your dad?

>> Um >> about how she's treated you and >> her financial situation and how it affects him, his retirement.

Yeah, I I have um for Father's Day, I got him a Total Money Makeover and

>> he he um he started reading it and he like wants to get on the right track now, but >> it's just >> it's on him to get her on board and you're going to have a much harder time doing that with your position.

Mhm. >> And so I think the more you can encourage him, get him on the plan, get him fired up, that will then hopefully be contagious to her, or at least he gets some boundaries and goes, "Listen, you can't spend like this anymore. I'm taking away access to this card because you're putting our family in danger." >> And the way that you motivate him is by sharing your journey. Like share when you're winning, when you guys do your debtree scream, share that.

Share how it feels to have this piece. Talk about the conversations that you're having with your spouse.

Just be open and share. You can't [music] make them do anything. Uh all you can do is tell them about it, and then you kind of just have to step away and really just leave [music] it in God's hands at that point, which is tough to do, George. It is not easy.

>> We want to control [music] the people that we love. Let's just be honest about that. But we can't. Doesn't work that way. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour.8825-55225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas. Up next, Brian, how can we help today?

>> Hey. Um, so I have about $90,000

tied up $90,000 in debt tied up in a

truck and a camper since I travel for work. And uh

I always want to I'm always like, I'm tired of being broke. I'm want to get this paid off in the next year.

How how do you get into that mentality of like whenever it comes to payday, I'm

just I don't want to do it, but whenever

it's time to pay the bill, I'm I want to get rid of this. How do you get get in the mentality of

>> making it happen? >> I need to get this done. Yeah. Making it happen. >> Well, I mean, I think I I think for you

right now, it's just logic. I think you're seeing, okay, I have debt. Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off. Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason, right?

But right now, it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a

real reason why. Um, and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. Um, and a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life. So, if your goal is to get married or if your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden, right? Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet.

>> Okay? Cuz I've set goals for I want to

get the debt paid off in the next year and then >> land. Why? Mhm.

>> Um to be financially free and to so I

can continue on my other financial goals

of buying buying land, building a house,

and then >> but also I'm asking deeper questions because money, it can't just be for more gain. Like it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more, you know, there's got to be like you got to pinpoint it to something. It's, you know, so when you said, "Hey, I want to buy land." Why is land important to you?

If you said, "Hey, I want to build a house." Why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So, I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful.

Otherwise, it's pretty surface. And a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do >> and it's not really it's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was. >> Yeah. You'll get there and go, "Okay, I did it, but now what?" And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. And I think you're getting there the way you're talking. What do you make?

>> Make about 110,000

before or after taxes.

>> After taxes, you make 110. Great income.

Okay. So, when you say I want to pay this off in 12 months, how are you planning on doing that?

>> So, my checks are about 2100 to 2500

depending on overtime and and how my hours are.

>> Is that twice a month? >> Once a week. >> No, it's every week. Okay, good. I was like, "Man, this math is not math for [laughter] me." Okay. >> Yeah, that's great. That's weekly.

>> Um, and just I did the math and right

around 1,500 bucks a week, get to a

point to where I have a I'm thinking like a $10,000 safety net since I am

traveling for work. And >> how much do you have saved now?

>> Nothing. >> Okay. So, you're just paycheck to paycheck spending everything you get.

>> All right. Yeah. >> Do they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

>> They So, they pay um

incentives to come out here and then the

travel expenses are on me.

>> Okay. What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

>> There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper. >> Okay. Do you need a $60,000 truck to do

your job?

>> I don't. >> Okay. because that's over half of your your take-home pay. It's a lot of truck for and it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

>> 20. >> Okay. A 20-year-old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that? >> Yeah. >> A a 50-year-old doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally, and sell this truck and get a new to me truck for 15,000. >> Okay. >> So, what is the truck worth? If you sold it private party, how much could you get for it?

>> Probably 55 to 60.

>> I haven't really done the >> blue book on it.

>> Cool. There's your There's some homework. And if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month. If you're underwater by five grand, could you save five grand to save your life in the next month?

>> Yeah. >> Great. So, now you can clear the title.

Now, we still need another truck, right? You still need that. >> Yeah. So, you're going to need to come up with another 10 grand, 15 grand to get a a beater truck is what this is going to amount to in the truck world.

>> Yeah, >> cuz you just need to get from A to B, right?

>> Well, uh, it just >> the camper is taking you. You're just hauling the truck along with the camper.

>> No. Uh, it's a pull behind camper, so I'm hauling the camper. >> Okay. >> I need something reliable enough to get

across the country if I need to. If the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and

>> Yeah. But they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60, right?

>> You know the truck world. >> So, here's the problem. That $60,000 truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country, >> which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country. Cuz the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear, that thing is plummeting in value.

So that's what scares me is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now. >> Yeah. >> So I would do some homework on that part.

>> Yeah. >> I'd rather you eat rice and beans for 6 months instead of a whole year. So I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper. And the way your income is, you could save up and and buy something used pretty quickly.

And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. >> Lots of people selling used trucks out there. Yeah, for sure. >> And so just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you.

Some people like Jade, it took, you know, over seven years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So for you to be able to do this in six months, you're going to blink. You won't even be able to drink yet and on your 21st birthday by the time you're debtree. [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> And just Yeah. And just know, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like you got all the time in the world.

you can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with.

Like, there's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So, just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in.

>> Okay. >> I'm proud of you, [laughter] man. You're a a very successful 20-year-old with a good head on your shoulders. We made some mistakes.

The good news, you know, anything that's vehicle related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into 100,000 of student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree. >> Man, I wish you could. I would have sold I would have sold mine off.

>> If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available >> and then it's like Men in Black. They do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well. >> Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned. I think that, you know, [laughter] >> I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific things they learned in college >> unless you were in like a 5.13 >> a medical field like you know, >> law like something like that where you kind of need to know some things >> where the funny bone is located.

>> Oh, I don't even know what that is >> exactly. There you go. I just

as much as I don't like going into debt for [music] vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, "Hey, you could sell the truck." >> That's a great >> You could sell the horse. Both are assets [music] technically.

>> You said it, not me.

>> [music] >> Ah,

[music]

[music]

heat.

[music]

Michael's up next in San Jose. What's going on, Michael?

>> I'm doing [clears throat] very well. How are you? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> So, my father passed a few months ago.

>> And the thing is, >> thank you. And the thing is, he left everything to me, his house, his investments, his business. Um he he didn't give anything to my sisters who

who who are estranged and with our mother ever since my parents divorced >> and my sisters are h like they have

asked me to help pay their student loans because my father left them with nothing. >> How much was it? >> Uh combined I believe they went to both undergrad and grad so it's combined it's about 300,000. >> No. How much was the Yes. Thank you for telling me that. But how much was the inheritance?

>> Um, it's it's a couple million. It's basically his house, his investment, and his business. >> When you say a couple million, is that like 2 million or is that like six million?

>> Um, it's in the eight figures.

>> Okay. So, we're talking 10 million plus.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. So he purposefully did not

leave any money to your sisters because

he had no relationship with them and that was his call to make.

>> Are are they misbehaviors?

>> He didn't.

>> No, they basically he basically cut them off because they sided with our mother during their divorce. >> Okay. So they're team mom, you were team dad, and he goes, "Hey, I'm going to leave it all to my son who's been loyal to me." >> Yes. >> Okay. And now they're resentful because they feel like they deserve a portion of this money.

>> It seems like it. Yes. >> Okay. I think this is more relational, emotional than it is financial. You could write them a check and pay off the loans, but I don't know that you agree with the principle behind it or that that would have been your father's heart. >> Well, yeah. What do you want to do?

What's what's your heart lean towards?

>> I don't want to disrespect my father in any way.

Okay. >> Do you have a relationship with your sisters >> or is it estranged as well?

>> It's estranged. Okay.

>> So, they've only come to me only for

very unique cases or like or when they

were going to college or or grad, they came to both my father and I for money.

My father I know I was there. My father refused to pay for them and that's why they have the debt to begin with. So, it's been transactional this entire relationship. >> But can I ask cuz here where I'm sitting and you've given us Thank you for sharing what you've shared so far.

What I'm trying to weigh and George, I don't I don't know how you're looking at this either, but I'm trying to weigh if this was a decision that was made out of dysfunction, which is I'm forcing you to choose sides and you guys are children, so you're choosing whatever I don't know, the parent you like the most that day, you know, that sort of thing.

you know, having an kind of just um an immature moment, right? Or is this really a reason that is with good reasoning behind it of, hey, I cut them off because they were misbehaving in this way and they made these poor choices or is it literally just simply I don't like your mother anymore and they like her. You're dead to me.

>> So, my mother had an affair. That's why they divorced.

My sister said it with my mother because they like the affair partner more.

And I said it with my father because he was my father. >> Got you. Okay. So, you can't see how

they would stand by someone who would do such a thing basically.

>> Yes, >> I understand. Okay. >> I think you're going to be resentful if you give this money. And I'd rather them be resentful towards you than you be resentful towards them.

>> Okay. There's no easy answer here.

They're going to hate you. But it sounds like they didn't like you to begin with.

They just used you for transactional moments.

And so I don't think this is going to change anything if you say that wasn't my father's wishes. I'm sorry.

>> Listen, I got more to I I feel more to it than that. How how how old were you guys when this happened?

>> I was 17. My sisters were 15 and 13.

>> That's interesting to me.

I listen, I don't think there's a wrong

or right to this. I really don't. It

feels very extreme to me that I I'm just

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just telling you my thoughts. It feels extreme to me that a parent would put children in a situation where they have to choose. Um, and because some

something about the situation made you guys feel like you had to choose, right?

Um, and >> not really. I mean the thing is I did

not know about my parents affair.

Apparently my sisters did >> and they said nothing >> and >> yeah they said nothing and >> which is not on your that's not on your the daughters. It's on the parent to to not put them in the position to keep that secret. >> Like kids are kids. Teenagers they're kids. >> A 15-year-old doesn't have the emotional bandwidth to navigate that.

>> Yeah. And probably thinks, "Oh, I'm going to be disloyal." Like they kids don't understand what role to play in that. Now looking back on adults, we can look back and go, maybe I should have done this, maybe I shouldn't. Who knows if they've done the right therapy to work through those things. I I just feel that on a surface level um to punish the children for a a

spousal misbehavior because the children didn't react in the way that the adults felt should have happened. I I do struggle with that. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just telling you called in.

So I'm saying I do have a little bit of a struggle with that. It It's not an error on your part. It feels like an error on the dad for saying, "I'll I'll show you." And kind of putting a lot of that um sting and unforgiveness for what mom did on the kids. That's I'm no I'm no therapist, so that's just my two cents.

I'm not going to lie. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, my father, he

suffered very greatly u from the divorce very emotionally. >> I I know because I was there.

>> Sure. Yeah. Rightfully so. >> He dipped into the alcohol. He dipped into alcohol for a while, but he built himself back up, >> you know, and he showered me with love and intention because I was the only one that he had. >> And I don't want to in any way

disrespect his wishes. I think he had a purpose to when he wrote his will and he never changed it. >> I think he had a purpose to when he refused my sisters for his college for

the college. >> Um, and and that's only a drop in the bucket. There have been numerous instances where I know that my father has re tried to reach out especially

when my sisters had their kids.

>> Um he >> and they didn't want anything to do with him. >> So can I ask this question?

>> Did they Okay, he wrote them off because

they followed mom. Did they then write him off because he wrote them off? Was it >> Do you see what I'm saying? Who wrote whom off first?

My sisters definitely.

>> And what was their reason for writing him off if he was completely an innocent party in all of this? I don't know.

That's the part I'm trying to understand. It's one thing for them to be like, "We still like mom. Like, we don't want this, you know, and for whatever their reasons were, they continue to have a relationship with her, but what would make them completely disassociate from dear old innocent dad

who did nothing wrong but love them?"

It was basically from what I understand the affair partner was very charismatic.

He bought them a lot of stuff and this was back when my father's business wasn't successful.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So I so so much to say he pro he

probably bought their love and affection. >> Got it. Got it. So it was a materialistic relationship. >> Here here's my final take on this. Again, not trying to play armchair therapist, but I think this you're not ready to forgive your sisters and and cause reconciliation, and giving them this money feels like you're taking that next step. Is that accurate?

>> I know that it the thing is I want the old grudges to die.

>> At the same time, I want to respect my

father's wishes. And um because my

father was a God-fearing man. Um he was very devout and I know that forgiveness is in the Bible, but I don't know like I'm you're

right. I am not ready to forgive them for the pain that they caused my father, neither my mother, neither my sisters.

>> That's it. You just said it out loud.

>> If you're not ready to forgive, don't forgive yet. But I think you should eventually. And my final take is I do think that him cutting them off was a little bit of dysfunction on his part.

Um, and I don't think that they necessarily deserved that. It doesn't sound like I wasn't there, but based on what you said, I don't know if I'd want to keep that dysfunction going. >> Yeah. And I want you to be giving out of joy. >> That's how giving should be done, not out of, oh, I just hate to be doing this with a clenched fist. So, I'd read that Bible again and see if all that grace and mercy talk might eventually heal some of [music] this relational dysfunction. So, sorry, man.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Hey, if you're listening to the show, I assume you enjoy it. And if you do, do us a quick favor. It's completely free.

And share the show. Hit the subscribe button, the follow button, leave us a kind review. Let us know what you think.

It all helps us so much. It is the best marketing tool we have because humans are the best way to share the show with other humans. That's the goal. So do that and we'll keep the show afloat.

That's how it goes. >> That's how it goes. >> I know no better way to keep the show going than you guys all sharing it and keeping it. >> You're the plan. >> Keep it alive. I bet is in Houston, Texas up next. What's going on?

>> Hello. Um, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> I'm actually having a lot of issues. Um,

I'm in a foreclosure.

>> Oh my gosh. >> And I Yeah, I initially did everything

to get out of it and I thought every everything was taken care of as far as a modification.

[clears throat] Um, I don't know how important this is, but um, I'm divorced and my ex-husband is on the deed. Even though he's never had any connection to the house, we happened to to be in the middle of the divorce when I purchased the house, so I was told that he had to be on the deed. I didn't even realize I could take him off. I'm just finding that out.

Yeah. But I mean, he's cooperative with um you know, like when I need the paperwork and all that stuff done. >> Okay.

So, when I I was sent the um final

documents for the the u modification,

they, you know, sent a copy to him and a copy to me and I called to follow up to

make sure his copy was actually received by them. The first time it wasn't, but the second time they said yes, it's here. You know, it was came in on this day, signed in, uh, but it hadn't been reviewed yet. So, that was a worry that was out of my mind. Um, but my documents, they sent them back to me and said that the notary did them incorrectly and I needed to have them not rearized.

>> Okay. So anyway, by the time I did that and sent it in and I had already made two two payments, not the trial payments, the actual um new modification

payments I had already. So yeah, I'm I'm into it. >> So then when I called to follow up, they said that the deadline had passed by two

days and I no longer was Yeah. I was no

longer eligible for >> the the modification. And I I talked to

these people constantly on a regular basis. And I have to say the the my uh assistant there. He was very stressful.

He stressed me out every time I talked to him. But he never really answer any questions as far as you know what happens, you know, by this date. Give me dates. He never >> What's the current status? How many payments have you missed?

>> Um well, like I said, I was making the two that was supposed to happen and then they stopped and they wouldn't take anymore. So, right now I think >> So, what what's their last communication to you? Where are you at in the foreclosure process?

>> Well, now it's on hold only because I'm a I'm a victim of a hurricane and I didn't ask for anything. They, you know, they just said, "Were you affected by a hurricane?" And I said, "Yeah." And then the person said, "Um, >> what hurricane? When?" >> Is this recent? >> Hurricane.

Yeah. Texas has hurricanes anytime it's summer. So yeah, >> I mean like but I'm saying that happened this summer.

>> Yeah, it just happened like I don't know three three weeks ago, but even before that we had a we had a tornado before that and I was >> So they're putting it they're they put it on hold because of the that inclement weather situation.

>> Yeah. And and on hold is what I thought it was, but it's a for it's a forbearance. So until

>> until um the end of October. Can I ask a

couple of Can I ask a couple of questions just to get my head around this? What took place for you to miss the initial payments? What was going down that was causing you to miss however many payments that you missed and got behind? And >> has is that situation over?

>> No. And and I'm I'm I'm willing at this point to sell my house, but um and that's something I fought against for so long. But no, I'm I have a disability and I haven't been able to work. Okay.

>> Um in over over 10 years, but I I'm not

receiving disability. It's been it's been very hard in this last time. I I haven't even filed the appeal. I just was in a state of depression and just >> So, what has your income been for the last 10 years? Where has it coming from?

>> Well, well, at it was coming from from child support for the most part, but now my daughter is an adult. Um >> So, where do you get money now? I well now I have a part-time job that makes things even worse. So that's what I have. But my daughter has her income now and so to I mean it's still very low cuz she only works part-time as well.

>> Both of you working part time. Both of you living in the house and you can't make the mortgage payment.

>> No, no, we No, we can make it now. But but what actually stopped me from making it um I ended up being sued by my um

homeowners association which that totally just wrecked everything. I had to pay them $6,000 and uh that that's

what really caused me to get behind because >> has the HOA payments been resolved? Did you pay that?

>> Yeah, that's that's that's over and done with and I'm going to have to figure out some way to get that back cuz that's a whole other uh story. I I have been on a payment plan with them since I stopped even before I stopped working. But we have different people in charge of that.

And >> let me just >> There's a few pieces here. We're going to walk you through it. >> Yeah. I don't think that um Have you ever attempted to sell this house? Here's here's I'm going to give you my 50,000 foot view. This is a home that you can't afford. This has been nothing.

This has been a burden on burden on burden. Um, I don't want you to foreclose, but I want to know, is there a way, have you attempted to sell the house at any point to go, hey, I can't afford this piece of property. I got to get out of it. Have you tried that?

>> No. And there there's a reason for that.

And and like I was saying, I have no problem with doing that now going forward. Um, but I've been affected by

these hurricanes. And >> what does that mean? When you say you've been affected, tell tell us what that means. >> Was the house damaged?

>> I have property. Yes. And I have property damage. Not just from the hurricane I just told you about from uh the Texas freeze a couple of years ago when we were out of power, but the issue is the insurance companies. I don't know if you know what what's going on with Texas insurance company after that. Even before Yeah. Even before that freeze, we had insurance companies that were just not doing what they were supposed to do.

>> They denying your claims?

>> No. No, they didn't do that. My insurance company um gave me $1,800. I

probably had I don't know. I'm just going to say $30,000 worth of damage.

And then we hit a wall and then they

pulled out the state of Texas and filed for bankruptcy. >> Okay. So, you have a bunch of work that needs to be done on your home that insurance wouldn't pay for. What type of work is it? Is it something that no one would buy the home in this condition? Is that what we're talking about? Is your roof half gone or is it more cosmetic?

No, I think people would buy the house, but my thing is I don't know how much value that I have lost and now so that I

may not have the equity left on your mortgage.

>> Um, it's like right at 100,000 and the

>> You're saying you don't know you could sell it for 100?

>> No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I I probably can't sell it for that. My situation I'm I'm 60 years old. My situation is I would not if I can I

would prefer not to sell a house that I paid for for 22 years and have nothing and then >> I understand it's frustrating because you didn't build the equity you wanted to but this is not you can't have the sunk cost fallacy. You're in a bind where you're going to either sell this home or it's going to be sold for you at auction in a >> foreclosure. You need to figure out you need to get an appraiser in there figure out what the house is worth. I'd be talking with the bank and fig and asking them listen I know I'm behind at this point.

I don't know how many payments you are behind. I know they tried to do a modification. It's on hold now. I think the fact right now that it's on hold is a blessing for you to go in one more time and say, "Can we just sell the property?" Um, if it's at a loss, maybe you ask for a short sale.

Figure out a way to go in there and don't let this be a foreclosure.

I'm gonna sell this house and we're gonna make sure that I'm I'm ahead and we're gonna get this thing done." And so, I would get in touch with a real estate pro. You can get in touch with one at ramseyolutions.com/trusted

and have them figure out the comps and what the house is worth. Let them do that homework for you cuz you got a lot going on. You need to get to some financial stability right now and build a new financial foundation and that means we're getting out of this house. >> Yeah.

I think you've been hit with hit after hit, whether it was the freeze and then the hurricane and then you're missing payments. And I realize that you've been in this house for a long a lot of years, but this is not a place of peace anymore. [music] And your home should be a place that you walk in and you feel peace. And we want that for you.

We want you in a place that you can afford and we want you to get the help that you need.

You can definitely avoid all of this and sell and move on with your life and get a fresh start. [music] That's our hope for you. So, get in touch with an agent and have them start to do the homework.

You get in touch with the lender, figure out what it's going to [music] take to allow this process to happen. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back [music] to the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Matthew 6 20 and 21. Store [music] up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. [music] For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Rebecca Johnson said, "Money is the opposite of the weather. Nobody talks about it, but everybody does something about it." >> Oo, >> here we go. >> I can't hear the word vermin without thinking it's funny. >> It's a funny word. It's a timey word.

>> Very yosimity Sam >> and biblical somehow. There's the ven diagram. What do they have in common?

They both use vermin. [laughter] Love it. Let's get to the phones. Samuel is in Austin, Texas. Up next. What's going on, Samuel?

>> Hey, how's it going? Can you guys hear me? Okay. >> Uhhuh. >> Yeah. You could do better, but you know, we can hear you.

>> So, um I went into debt with a car and

um this was two years ago. Uh the question for you guys today is it morally okay to ask my wife to pay for this car with her

savings. >> When did you get married?

>> Uh two years ago. I I got the car in April. We got married in May.

>> That's convenient.

>> Was the plan >> Yeah, it wasn't. >> Was the plan for you guys to combine your finances when you got married?

>> Uh yes. And the reason I got the car was I was in an accident and so we were left with nothing to drive around.

>> They didn't write you a check.

>> Uh, no. It was my fault.

>> Okay.

So, you've been married two years. Have you guys combined your money up to this point or has it been kind of just separate without you guys really?

>> Yeah, we we we combined. Um, she doesn't

work as much as I do. I think in total we're probably at like 50 40 50 each year.

>> Okay. But what you're telling me and your question would denote two separate answers. You're telling me that your money is combined, but then you're telling me should my wife use her savings to pay this off. So that lets me know it's not combined.

>> We're combined as in like we pay the we

pay the bills together. um her savings is a part because she's been saving since she was like 18, 17 that she

started working. Um and so I think I I

feel wrong to ask her and I did ask her

I think maybe maybe about a month ago and it became an argument because I don't have anything safe. Uh the only debt >> that we have is this car.

>> Um >> what's left on the car?

Uh 20 >> 20,000 >> and she has a car too that's paid off.

>> Uh well she works with her mom so her mom picks her up every day.

>> So you have one car in the family.

>> Yeah. >> How much savings does she have?

>> She has 16 17

>> 16 or 17,000. So it's really not even enough to pay off the car if she wanted to. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

So there's the glaring issue and I know George sees it too. The glaring issue is that you guys are really separate and it's really hard to build trust when I'm over here and you're over there and I've got this thing that I've been working for my whole life and it doesn't really include you. You know what I'm saying? And I kind of wish she was on this call cuz I don't want to talk bad about her.

She probably feels really great about that savings. But the truth is when you become married, two become one. And until the two become one, it gets really weird and very transactional. Right, George?

>> Yeah. This is I think that it's the wrong question to ask. Is it moral to ask my wife to pay off my debt? There's not a moral issue here.

It's what does the conversation need to look like for us to combine our money to where we go, all right, the next best move is to pay off our debt with our money.

Otherwise, this is going to just be another checkbox on her resentment scorecard for you of going, remember, you blew my savings on that car and then you went and still did stupid money mistakes. you always do this, right?

That's what it's going to turn into cuz you never change your habits.

>> So, when when we talked about it, the reason that she doesn't want to do it cuz she said, "I'd be 100% on board." But we do have a daughter who she kind

of like she feels like if I ever have an emergency, I have this money instead of

having bills and getting loans to pay off if anything happens.

>> So, you guys need to go counseling.

Here's why. because she's in a just in case mode. She's like, I want to make sure I have this parachute here just in case I got to pull the lever. And so that points to either something that's happened in the past that she's not dealt with fully, or there's current trust issues that are actually going on between you and her that maybe you don't know about, but it's something that she's been ruminating on.

So, something's going on deeper here. And I don't say that to be negative. That's just what money does. Money shows you what's really in your heart and what's really what's going on.

And so this is good. This is good that you guys are seeing this. You're two years in. It's good that you're going, "Okay, there's something wrong here.

I'm feeling like this. I'm feeling I have to ask you for money. There's a lack of trust.

you're not going to be able to accomplish much if you don't deal with this. Because most goals um when you're

married, most goals are kind of underpinned by finances, right? Cuz >> it takes money to do stuff.

>> Yeah. It takes money to do stuff. And if you guys aren't aligned on your money, then there's no way you're going to be able to be aligned on the goals. Cuz let's just pretend your goal is, I don't

know, uh our goal is we want to get to the point that we take a nice vacation every year. All right. Then the way you guys are going, you've got to save for your half and she's got to save for her half. And what happens if somebody doesn't make it? Well, I guess we can't go on the vacation. Like, it gets very weird very quickly. You see what I'm saying? >> Well, I I think it's just the whole car thing cuz we've gone on vacations and

>> No, you don't see what I'm saying. You don't You're taking it for face value.

I'm talking about as a whole. This is something you've got to deal with because the car her not wanting to do

that or what that's a symptom of a bigger problem is what I'm saying.

>> What is this car worth?

>> Uh it's worth like seven to eight.

>> Did you roll negative equity into it?

What happened? >> Uh well I got the car few years ago. Um

I just recently crashed uh >> again. >> It was honestly just a stupid stupid mistake. >> You crashed again? >> Um no no no. when when I crashed uh our

our only car, I went in and I got this

car and um it was supposed to be like a good

thing, but it ended up just not being a good thing. >> No, I'm saying why is this new car that you got after the crash only worth seven, but you owe 20? It's only been two years.

>> I It was bad investment. It it I wasn't

supposed to get the car cuz it was a bad investment at the time. I like I said, I made a stupid decision and I thought I was on top of the world. But >> I'm No, I'm confused as to how the value went down cuz when you bought the car, it was worth at least 20, right?

>> Yeah. >> What kind of car is it? >> No, no. It's a 2013 Cadillac,

>> Samuel, I'm confused. How much did you pay for the car?

So, I originally got it for 20.

>> Okay. So, you put nothing down and you got this car.

>> I actually put $4,000 down.

>> That's wild. I'm so confused, my man.

You're not track I'm not tracking with you. How is the car only worth seven today? >> How did it drop $13,000 in value in two years? >> I'm I'm not sure. Kelly Blue's bucket the other day and it was at

it was from 7 to 9.

>> Okay. Something something ain't adding up here cuz I'm trying to figure out how much you're underwater in. I think you need to get rid of this car to show your wife that you're serious about changing cuz right now you're using her like a bank to bail you out. Bank of wife.

Guess what? She's not your mom. She doesn't want to be your mom. She married you to have a partner in life and right now we're still making childish decisions. And that's probably what's contributing to her having her uh safety harness ready to go at a moment's notice.

>> So, I think that we need to address this conversation in a different way. Not is it moral to ask my wife to pay off my debt. It's you going, "Hey, babe, I've really messed up. >> For the last two years, I have not been the man in this marriage that you need me to be.

I've been making childish decision decisions and I'm ready to change." Part of that is I want to get rid of this car and get something more affordable that isn't taking up a lot of our world. >> Will you help me on this journey to live debtree, to have an emergency fund, and to build for the future cuz that's the future you deserve.

>> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. >> So, I think that's the next conversation to have.

Um, [music] and I think part of that is the counseling. We need to get to the bottom of what is holding her back from combining finances. But I think we both have a part to play in this. Yeah, >> that's marriage and we need to own up for the part that we played.

[music] And please, please, no more decisions that involve debt. No more decisions that aren't uh fully have her involved, [music] too. That's another piece of this. She hasn't been involved in any of this.

>> That's it for this hour of the Ramsay Show. We'll be back before [music] you know it.

>> [music]

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## 79. Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life.

>> [music] >> From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw next to me Dr. John Delony in the house taking calls about your life and your money.

We're going straight to the phone lines, you know the deal. We have Greg in [music] Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Greg?

Hi, uh yes, this is Greg and I

have about $10,000 in credit card debt.

Um I keep making payments on it and it ends

up going right back up to 10,000 uh due

to my drinking. Oh, no.

>> Yikes, man.

What are you doing to get a handle on your drinking, brother?

Uh I'm getting back into the AA programs

and uh church programs, but yeah,

getting back into it. Huh.

Are you ready to commit all in?

Yes, I am. Yeah.

So, how can we help you today, man?

Well, I originally reached out to see if there was any other advice besides cutting up my credit card.

Um so, anything besides that would be appreciative. Is it Is it just you?

>> to do that?

No, I do. I just I I have a little bit of nerves about it when it comes to emergencies and things

like that. I got to I have to use my truck a lot for work, so I mean, I'm going to have to change the tires on it pretty soon. Um I know I'm going to need a credit card for that. >> Have you Oh, sorry. Sorry, Jade.

>> No, go ahead. I was going going if we give you a financial solution for that, for for the things that you're concerned about, is that all that's keeping you?

What do you mean all that's keeping me?

If I If you leave this call today and I give you a plan for why you don't have to fear tires on the truck or all of those things that you're kind of feeling like, "Hey, I need the credit card to fall back on." Would that be enough for you then to to cut it up?

Yes, for sure. >> Okay. All right, so have you been to AA before? Yes. What would they tell you if you went into AA and they said, "Are you ready?" And you said, "Yes, except

I still need to hang out with these guys. I still need to go to this bar once a week and I still need to do something else." Would they have any confidence that you were going to be able to change what what what what alcohol is serving to cover up for you?

No, they wouldn't. >> Okay. So, the long as long as you keep this backup

plan on you at all times, 24/7, 365, the

chances of you using this backup plan

are 100%.

Okay. The path forward is really saying

never again.

And when you walk into your first AA meeting, it has to be never again.

And when it comes to I'm tired of making

as much money as I do and every month

I don't even know where it goes. I just look up and I'm back in the whole 10 grand. Until you decide I'm done with this and follow the plan Jade's going to lay out for you. And by the way, getting sober it's not easy, it's hard. Costs you a lot.

And it's worth it.

And getting out of debt is hard, it costs you a lot. And dude, the the path is freedom and peace, man. It's worth everything.

You just got to say, "I'm either in or I'm out."

I'm in. So, I'm ready to hear it. It's awesome. It's really good. Yeah, we're proud of you. Um so, let's talk about the money side of this. So, you've got tires on the truck coming up. It sounds like basically what's happened is you've kind of got in a paycheck to paycheck cycle. Yeah? Yeah. Yes.

>> Okay. So, what are you bringing in every month? What what comes what comes into your hands every single month?

I just started a job 3 months ago. I'm making 75k plus commission.

Um I do have a 1500 a month car allowance.

So, it's kind of more like 90k. Okay, good. >> Plus commission. Okay, so you've got a car allowance of

like a high amount. That's crazy. So, how much are you actually bringing home in your check? Like what's what are you writing on your budget?

Uh what I'm bringing home is approximately after taxes and everything about 5 grand a month right now. >> Okay, and is it just you or do you have family?

Well, I'm engaged and I'm about to

move in with my fiance um within a

couple of months um in May also. So,

that's another reason why I'm kind of holding on to the credit card a little bit. Okay, so I want to challenge that.

I don't want to bite off too much uh to chew in this little bit of time, but first things first is you getting yourself together. >> Amen. >> Um and that is on the addiction side and on the financial side. Adding a whole other person to this right now and moving in together, I'm sorry John, I'm getting into your territory, but that feels that feels like not the right move at this point in time, right?

You got a lot on your plate. >> It's like holding matches over an open flame and deciding, you know what? I'm going to pick up a gas can, too, while I'm standing here.

Yeah. And it's not to say you can't keep dating this lady or whatever, but go

accelerating to that point just feels like it doesn't feel like the right move. Um so, you've got good money coming in, you've got a great allowance here. Now, the only thing is we got to get this into a budget because there's something, obviously before it was the addiction, that was spending all your money, but right now something else is eating your lunch on a month-to-month basis. How much are you paying every every month for month for rent?

Uh, 1,300.

Okay, so that's not the problem.

Uh, what is your car payment?

Um, I'm $750 away from having it completely paid off.

Attaboy, way to go, dude. >> Amazing. Okay. So, and once it's paid off, do you still get the $1,500 allowance for your car?

Yes, I do. Okay, so why can't we use that for tires? Can you get tires for 1,500 bucks?

Yes. >> [laughter] >> I love this. Yeah, this is awesome. So,

is that I mean, is that it? Is that just the solution? Do we need to talk about anything else?

Uh, I mean, I just I know that y'all say it's a bad idea with the moving in and whatnot, but I mean, this has been the plan for a few months now, so it's going to be hard to reverse that. Not really. It's going to require some tough conversations, and I

have a sense I mean, I I don't know the lady, but you just called here and you

laid some pretty heavy things on on the table, and it made perfect sense to me.

It It was like, oh, logical, makes sense. So, I got to believe that if you talk to her and you say, "Hey, here's what I'm going through.

Today, it doesn't make sense for me to to to what John's point said. I'm standing in front of a fire. I don't want to add you and and and make this complex for both you and I." Or, let me flip it around. If If your fiance was a friend of mine, was she If she was my sister, my daughter, I would tell her, "Hey, continue to love this guy.

You You decided you want to spend the rest of your life with him, but he's got to go get well before before you fully anchor in.

And he's got to commit to looking himself in the mirror and saying, "I'm worth sobriety. I'm worth this amazing job opportunity I've got. I'm worth cleaning up and being disciplined with my finances, committing to something, and and and and not wavering." And then you can feel free to anchor into that concrete. That's what That's what I would tell her.

And my guess is you would tell if that was your sister or like, you know, your friend, you tell them the same thing. And so it's just a it's just a matter of man, what you need right now is is a simple plan, a simple path.

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, nobody's telling you not to stay engaged, not to potentially marry this woman, um [music] but just do it the right way. And before you go, we're going to make sure Christian picks up and gets you every dollar cuz you need it so you can see where all of your money, all that $5,000 plus that car allowance, see where it's going every month, and promise me today you'll cut up the credit cards and buy the tires in cash.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, back to the phone lines [music] where we have Matthew in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hi, Matthew.

Hey, how's it going? Doing good. How can we help today?

Hey, I'm calling in because I'm in a unique situation here where my wife and I, praise God, just paid off, you know, all of our debt, over $150,000 worth of debt. >> yay. And uh yeah, it feels really good. We did it in you know, a couple years time, so that that feels good. We're freshly married, you know, we got on board paying off debt even before the wedding and you know, just so we're on the same page, you know, even during dating.

So, we've we've been doing everything right, trying to follow the baby steps.

Now, we're ready to replenish our emergency fund in baby step number two.

The problem is is my wife kind of just dropped this bomb on me today that she is with with or without my permission going to get her parents a used car.

And >> With or without your permission? Please tell me how that Tell me how that was said. >> [laughter] >> Well, so here's the thing. She it's with or without my permission because she she

up front paid a lot of you know, my student loans off and we ended up paying a bulk of it off together. Okay. And uh and so, but you know, I'm sure you already know >> owe her is what she's saying.

Uh-oh. >> As the great Warren G once said, "Hold up." Like, y'all paid off y'all's student loan debt.

That's how I see it. I I I see it as like, you know, we already have a combined, you know, checking, combined savings, combined high-yield income high-yield savings account. We have combined everything finances.

And so, I don't have a problem with her wanting to do something nice for her parents. I love them, and I want to do that for them, too. Mhm. But, the thing I have hold up on is the precedent that's set of, "Hey, whether you are on

board for this or not, this is on my heart, and I'm going to do it, you know, no matter what." >> All right, so let let me flip this around real quick. Are you a person

who Yes. can hear that conversation from her and honor it and and figure out ways to to connect with her on it?

Uh what do you mean by that? Meaning, sometimes, um we make bold statements like that, like, "I'm going with or without you," because the person we've been trying to communicate with is is stuck in concrete.

And so, anytime somebody says something that just sounds out of character or that just sounds wild, like, you don't have permission, like, you're all our mom and dad in some sort of weird marriage, like, anytime somebody says that, I always, this is just a personal thing, I go to the mirror and and see, have I made it hard for that person to connect with me?

Yeah. I I hear your question. I don't think so. >> Okay. I'm only saying that because the way I responded to that was, "Hey, I would love to do that for them, and I support you. Let's get it on our financial timeline to figure out where we can do that for them." Understood.

>> to hone in on the And she decided to hone in on the fact of, you know, she needs my approval or something, and she's saying that she doesn't need it because she paid off all this debt. Okay.

>> feel like that's us on the same page.

>> So, that tells me and John, strike me

strike me out of the conversation at any point, but what this is telling me is there was some part of her while that process was happening that she was doing it, but she didn't really want to do it.

Or she was feeling a type of way and never voiced it, and now it's kind of like resentment is there, which you got to nip that in the bud with the quickness. >> Yes.

It It scorekeeping will destroy relationships. >> Now Now, can I add something else to the conversation that it could be, but I don't think it is?

And again, John, come get me if I'm if I'm out here. Um I do think in marriage there is times where we're trying to accomplish a greater good, um or we're trying to go in the direction that we say we want to go in that we value, and one spouse will make a concession, right, in order to do so. And then there's seasons where another spouse makes more of a concession to do so.

Right? There's a part of that, and I I don't think that this is that, but I also just wanted to put space for that to be there. And if it is that, she has communicated it in a way that makes it seem like it's not that. >> In a bad [laughter] way, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, hey, here Here's your path forward, brother. It's to back completely out of the money conversation for a minute.

Okay? So So, money fights are almost always We've been saying this for years.

Money fights are almost always simply lights on the dashboard for a a a bigger issue under the hood.

And so, here's the framework I want you to use walking into this. Are you ready?

Sure. >> you to say, "Hey, um I want to have a a pretty heavy conversation with you. Is Is now a good time, or is this evening a good time?" If she says yes, great. The next question is, "The story I've made up is

Okay? That's how I want you to approach her. "The story I've made up is

you resent having helped me pay off these student loans.

The story I'm choosing to make up is I thought we were together and it turns out we're not.

The story I'm choosing to make up is you now feel like I owe you, that somehow I'm less than, somehow you're just going to make these decisions like a like a cowboy or a cowgirl, and

then the next one is here's how I feel about that. That makes me feel small, makes me feel like we're not on the same team.

And give her a chance to respond to that.

Cuz what you're talking about there is A, you're being humble and saying I'm making up a story here cuz you you you you you you don't know what is going on in her heart and mind.

But and you're telling her exactly how you feel about it. And you're giving her space to say actually that's not happening at all or giving her space to say you know what, I said that wrong or giving her space to say yeah, I've been harboring a lot of resentment. And if that's the case, you'll got to deal with that now cuz it will burn your marriage to the ground.

Yeah, got you. Mhm. If you come at her using you statements, you said this, you did this, she's going to wall up and fight you back cuz that's the word you is often a declaration of war when you're mad, when you're frustrated.

Yeah, and I always try and frame things when I have a you know, whenever we have like a disagreement or discussion, I always try and isolate the behavior and not the person. That way I'm not saying you are this thing, I'm saying this behavior made me feel a certain way.

Okay, I want you to you go one step further. Just start the whole conversation with with the the letter I.

I made this story up about what just happened and I feel this kind of way about it.

Okay? And you cuz even isolating the behavior everybody it's kind of a work around to an accusation, right?

Yeah. But you saying the word I, you taking ownership, this is this is was this what I'm making up and this is how I feel about this thing gives her an opportunity it's an invitation to respond.

And if she says screw you, if she says I don't care, she says I'm I've been doing all this for you and now I'm going to finally do something for myself, you all got to you all got to get on the same page with that deal. And can I just add a piece to that? If if it is, I will

almost cuz I'm listening to this and there's part of me that's going, you guys are newlyweds. I'm actually really glad this is coming up now instead of later and I might add that in and say if I if I'm right, if I'm feeling this and it's accurate, just hear me say I'm I'm glad that this is happening now than later because this is something I want to work out.

Cuz cuz if this is how if this is how she rolls is going to show up in the home you buy, it's going to show up the kids you have, it's going to show up in the jobs you do or don't take, it's going to show up the rest of your life.

And so getting back on the same page now, giving her an opportunity to explain, here's what I meant, here's what I was feeling, here's what's going on inside her spirit, man, that's a that's a blessing and a gift. And like Jade said, every couple I've ever met goes through things like this. And the fact that you're you're having this happen early on and you have the courage to face it head on, man, that's awesome. It's really good. So you're going to do it? You'll have the conversation?

Yeah, I'm going to have the conversation. I I think it's also not even just about the car thing. I think it's more about what you said earlier about scorekeeping because my stu- my student loan debt that was paid off gets brought up in a myriad of conversations, not just this one. Okay.

Yeah, it's it's always like my behavior or her behavior's justified or mine's just, you know, disregarded because you know, the student loan debt once existed. It's constantly like keep being brought up. Uh it was $120,000 of student loan debt.

Yeah. Um yeah, that's tough. That's tough. It's it's definitely something to work out and you might need you might need some mediation. Like you might need a counselor to help you be able to speak about it in a way that's like not harmful, but you're making progress and not just circling around it. It sounds like maybe she is. And both things can be true here, right?

She signed up for to marry a guy. It's tough. >> With 120 grand and a super frustrating.

>> It's tough. That's yes. >> She's allowed to have her feelings hurt and she's allowed to be annoyed and allowed to be frustrated and also [music] she made a commitment you and I ride or die till death do us part. [music] And so both things can be true. You can feel all kind of ways, but you got to be emotionally mature and go do the [music] next right thing.

>> That's right. That's right.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? [laughter] Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them Me too. don't know what to do next. Me too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly right. >> two options.

Take care of your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance.

Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable.

I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, let's get back to the phone lines where we have John who's in Reno, Nevada, which by the way, whenever I think of Reno, Nevada, I think of the movie Sister Act. It will always be that way. I'm sorry, John. How can we help today?

Hey guys, it's a pleasure being on the phone with you. How are you doing How are you doing today? Doing good. How can we help?

Um good. Um so, my wife and I are in around $86,000

in debt.

Um and I'm considering um moving us to the hood.

>> [laughter] >> To uh What does that mean? Tell me more.

BACK TO THE HOOD. What does that mean?

Yeah. >> [laughter] >> What? Um well, it's it's not the area I'm considering uh we're considering is it's not the best. It's not the worst. It's certainly It's certainly uh not what we're used to, though.

Sorry, I'm still I'm still processing.

>> [laughter] >> That Well, I mean i- i- if you're trying to pay off $86,000 of debt, very little, if anything, of your old life should look like what you're going through. That's true. Yeah, that's fair. So, if you say um I

I don't know. Where I come from, that can be kind of a derogatory term. Like if you're telling me, "Hey, we're going to move to a way cheaper place to live,

um maybe bikes and a car or two in the yard, whatever, but it's a safe place to live. We're going to do our life and we're going to pay off our debts. I would say do it today.

Oh, okay. If you say I'm going to put me and my family in harm's way, we're going to be unsafe, then I would say that's not wise.

Okay, that's fair.

That's fair. Yeah, I'm all I'm with John. Going to a lower lower cost apartment, great.

Trading in your car for a beater, great.

Um if the hood is a place where there's

certain people, then we might have issue. But if you're just like, "Hey, I'm just really trying to cut down my lifestyle." then by all means.

>> Get on it, dude. >> Get on it. Jump on it.

All right. All right, thank you.

>> And And by the way, if you say the words or think the words, "This isn't how it used to be." you're probably on the right track.

"We used to be able to go out to eat and now we're not anymore." Good.

"We used to drive really fancy cars with insane payments every month and we're not anymore." Good.

"We used to have a house that we couldn't afford or live in an a super fancy apartment and we could barely make a rent and now we're living at a way smaller place and at in kind of a dive apartment for a season." Good, good, and good. Okay, you got to make radical changes, man, but also you got to keep yourself safe. >> Mhm. Mhm.

Okay. Yeah, tell us >> Yeah, I mean that Tell us more. I'm listening.

Okay, um well,

um right now we our rent is about 2,500.

Um I also have to We also have two kids.

>> I can say here in back there.

Yeah, yeah, we got two kids.

Um I work nights um overnight as a as a truck driver. I go to Sacramento and back, which is about you know, 138 mi

away. >> Mhm. Um so from about I don't know if I

should put my hours I'm gone, but I'm I'm gone for about I'm gone for about 12 to 14 hours a day. >> What do you bring in every month doing that?

Um I bring in 6,900.

Okay. And does your wife bring in any? I know she's taking care of the kids, but does she bring any income in?

>> [snorts] >> Yeah, she brings in about a thousand

dollars a month. Okay. So, on that

income, I mean you're almost at 8,000 bucks a month, you should be able to float. I mean it's it's a little over, but the $2,500 rent, it's not the thing that's 100% breaking you, but I mean how much cheaper do you think you could go and still be in an environment that's, you know, good for you guys and safe for you and whatever.

Well, I'll I'll be honest, I think that the $900 is is safe.

Um I mean there there's there's things that are like 1,300.

Um and they're like in areas that are similar.

Um and I kind of figure like, "Hey, if I'm going to go 1,300 and be in a similar area, might as well just go down to the cheapest I can find." Yeah, why not?

>> And it's the one bedroom. Yeah, and and and dude, just know, make a deal with you and your wife this is for a a short season. My wife and I sold our house and moved into a residence hall, into a college dorm with a with a toddler for We we did

it for 1 year and it it completely transformed our life. >> Yeah. Yeah.

I If your wife is on board and it's it's

accomplishing, it's ticking all the boxes, yeah, why not? You guys are young, now's the time to do it. Um again, it's not it's not the be-all end-all, it's not forever, but yeah, why not? But here's a way to burn a hole through your marriage, brother. If you're paying 2,500 bucks now and you find a place for a thousand and that $1,500 is not piling on

whatever else y'all can come up with to pay off this debt and it just slowly goes away and you know, DoorDash orders and you come home with some cool, I don't know, speakers or I don't know whatever, you come home with something that's going to end up being a big problem. So, if y'all make this commitment, make it for a season and be

really diligent about getting this debt knocked out. Yeah, that's that's all you can do. Uh thank you for the call.

That's a good one. All right, let's go to Justin who's in Houston, Texas. Hey, what's up, Justin?

Not too much. How are y'all doing today? We're doing good. How can we help?

I just really have a a question about um my wife and I both work. We just had our third child, so three girls for us and we're just really looking for some advice or how to how to decide if my wife should continue to work or if she should be a stay-at-home mom.

Um she recently got a new job where she's making pretty good money um working fully remote, but she's struggling with the uh you know, should we should should she stay at home or should she keep working? What does she want to do?

She doesn't know. She's torn. Uh I think part of the challenges experience-wise she was a school teacher for a long time. She's gotten into some good work and and this job is really through a couple of connections and I I think she recognizes that and it's going to be hard to replicate if she were to take a break and and be a mom for a couple years, but I think her heart's telling her that might be the direction she wants to go. Yeah. Is there any financial weight of this that we should consider?

Uh the the struggle we have right now, I mean she she makes like I said good money. Um it's comparing the daycare cost to that and and really money-wise it's not really an issue. Uh if >> Okay, you don't need the money. We don't need the money. Okay.

Um you know, there's no wrong or right answer on this, right? This is completely a values-based question.

Um I would be looking at a way to do this um I have found that when I'm making really major decisions like this, what really helps me is to figure out all the variables that are actually weighing in on my decision that I'm not even aware of. So, that's why I asked, is there a financial thing that could be somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there some expectation she might be feeling from you that's somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there any other variables to this other than what a great opportunity?

Right? Sure. Uh and that makes a lot of sense and I think um you know, again, my view is I think she's always worked her whole life, so I think part of her is is feeling like she'd be giving up some independence perhaps. >> There you go.

Uh-huh. For being fully retired and fully relying on me to take care of the family, but I think we also recognize that salary-wise I'm three or four X her, so it's not really an issue at this point, right? Yeah.

There's not really a way to win.

Right? And I've watched my wife who was a gangster research professor, a small business owner, and then a full-time mom, and then a teacher navigate these identities. And that's the part as her husband I way underestimated is the the weight of I'm a professional versus I am a stay-at-home and I should it always feel like I should be doing something else. The way we've navigated this in our house, Jade, is is we always

make short-term decisions, meaning let's try this for a season. You can always You can always You can always change.

And if this job doesn't work out, she's proven to herself there are people who will hire me and I do bring value. And so, I'm going to go all in, I'm going to go full commit to staying at home for 6 months or a year, and then we're going to we're going to um circle back up and see if this is still the right path. Or I'm going to quit this job, go I mean, I'm going to stay in this job full-time, and I'm going to do that for 6 months or a year and see how we are all how our house is operating, how I feel, how you feel, how we're working together.

Yeah, I think that's exactly how she feels is whatever is and any of the either decision is going to be a permanent, and I work on that one. Yeah, well, and and so do the next right decision for this for this [music] season. Yeah, you've got time. I I love that idea, and there's also maybe there's a world where she works part-time, and she's a little bit doing, you know, wearing the the boss hat, and a little bit wearing the mom hat.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> Jade, I want to rally

America together to wish you a happy birthday. Oh. >> Happy birthday. Thank you. I appreciate it. >> 21 is a big one. You can drink now.

That's the whole thing.

>> John, I mean, come on. Just tell them the truth. I'm 35. I've been 30 >> 26. I've been 35 for about 7 years now

and it's a great age. >> That's awesome. I would not I would have put money on 28 or younger, so well done. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, after having talked about that, let's talk [laughter] about something even more troubling, which is tax season. Okay, it doesn't have to be troubling though if you have [laughter] a simple tax situation like if you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, you could really just use Ramsey SmartTax. Ramsey SmartTax is

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let's go to the phone lines. We've got Christine in Newark, New Jersey. Hi Christine. >> [snorts] >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You're welcome. How can we help today?

So, I'm One of those, huh? >> to figure out Yeah, yeah, it is definitely one of those. >> me a favor and talk directly into your phone for me, Christine. Oh, okay. Sorry.

>> Perfect. Thank you. Is it a little bit better? Okay.

Go for it. >> Um so, I ended up I I put myself into a lot of debt and I was trying to be proactive in the situation, and I joined one of these like debt relief programs where, you know, you pay monthly, and then there's a settlement fee or whatever. Um and being in that process, um I actually helped my ex-boyfriend uh get a car. He got that car repoed.

So, now I'm accumulating more debt outside of the what I already had in my creditors um debt relief program. My question is, is it best for me to maybe just file for bankruptcy cuz I'm still getting calls from the other creditors who are in my debt relief program. Um like just, you know, trying to negotiate or sending me notifications about whatever, you know, the the balances that are owed. And I now I'm accumulating even more debt outside with the repo.

Yeah. Um And I I mean it's it's uncontrollable for me right now.

relief program um to three creditors, and I'm only paying one of the creditors at this point. And I'm just thinking like it's going to take me years to try to get all of them settled. Um and I don't want to keep on just investing in something that's just going to like, I don't know, that's not hopeful at the end. So, I wasn't sure what to do.

Well, yeah, that's very stressful. If you're if you're making many deep breaths right now, I I understand that, and you should keep doing that. Um so, let me just make sure I understand the repoed car.

Yes, it is. Yeah. >> was it rolled into the debt relief, or it's just separate, and they're just coming after you for the difference? It's separate. Exactly. Yeah, it was it was not part of the debt relief. It's separate, and they're coming after me, too. Understood. What is Let me talk about the repoed car first.

What is the deficit that they're coming at after you for? Uh 14,000. Oh,

girlfriend. Okay.

They've already auctioned the car off, or is it >> Yep. Yep, it's already it's already taken. Yeah, I can't get it. Yeah.

>> Okay. And there you don't know where your ex-boyfriend is.

Um I I do and I don't. I I try to no

contact type of situation, so >> Okay. Okay, so I'm just going to hit you with something that just really, really, really sucks and I think you know this.

That is it's on you, girl.

Um unfortunately, when you sign when you cosign with somebody, you're you're just as liable for the debt. And you could say, if you said I'm not going to pay it, you're just going to feel the the dings and the dings and the dings and the dings on your credit. Um and I [clears throat] feel like it's more so about it dinging up your peace because they're calling you, right? So, you're going to have to add this to your snowball and I hate to tell you that. It is a lesson learned the hard way.

Sorry. So, what's your total debt load that you're trying to get relief from?

Um so, it's three creditors. One is 11,000, um another it's like seven 8,000, and

then another is 6,000. Okay.

>> So, in that in that ex relationship,

like I pretty much one was a loan, um and then two were credit cards that I kind of maxed out just so I can leave the situation and get an apartment on my own. Understood. >> I maxed out. So, what do you make a year?

Um a year? I well, I know I bring home maybe like 38, 39 a month.

>> Okay.

Um and then there's overtime and things like that, so >> With overtime, what does it look like?

On a on a month where you do some good overtime? You know what?

That's You know what? To be honest, that's actually I want to say that's including the overtime.

>> Okay. Okay. Um yeah. Okay. And then just

I always like to know where people's housing fits in that equation because if you're paying too much for your housing, it it it throws this whole thing off kilter. So, what are you paying What are you paying for housing?

Um so, right now I'm in an apartment complex and it's like 1892. Okay, that's

what's eating your lunch. Ooh, Christine, that's that's half your income.

So I'm paying I'm literally like living like I'm I'm so like I'm living like paycheck to paycheck, but on top of that I'm I'm in one of those like stupid app situations where like you can borrow from your next paycheck. >> Oh, girl, stop. Yeah, I know. I'm I'm telling you I'm I this is what I do to myself.

So >> I know, I know, no, okay. >> this is not what you Sorry. >> Okay, we're both on your side. We're on your side.

But you got to stop. You Are you with us?

Okay. All right. So here's what When's your lease up?

Um, it would be next June, like not this

June but next June. >> it a one-bedroom or a two?

It's It's actually a three-bedroom. I have three three kids with me. So I'm me and three kids. Yeah, three kids. Okay.

So what I try to do is I'd go to the uh

leasing office and I'd say, "Hey, um, cuz I'm pretty sure you can do this." If you just say, "Hey, I just want to switch apartments in in the complex, this one I'm having a hard This one is just too much for me.

with three kids I will hate myself saying, "You need to work more," right?

That's feels very impossible.

Um, I'm sure there's something you can do, but I feel like the bigger way that you can make an impact is on that line item on your budget and and basically to cut it down to I don't know, a thousand, eleven hundred, somewhere in that range.

Do you see what I'm saying?

No, yeah, I understand. Yeah, I see you.

Right? And it's going to feel terrible.

You're going to feel like, I can't Oh, I I have three kids. I'm making them share a room. I'm uprooting their life. I'm making them I'm making them I'm making them You're going to make them understand what it looks like to right wrongs.

And make things right. And that's the lesson that you're going to be teaching them doing this. So, tell yourself that when you start beating yourself up.

>> J, would you recommend she quit paying on this on this debt relief nonsense?

>> Yeah, let's go to that. That's super Yeah, debt relief done. >> It's a scam. It's a scam.

The reason that they're calling you The reason they're calling you is because the way those places work is they say, "Pay us the money. We're going to hold it in a pool, basically, and we're going to wait until these creditors get desperate and they're ready to make a deal." That's why they're calling you.

Cuz they haven't been paid. And so, you've probably paid a bunch into a pool. How much have you paid in?

Um so, I've been in this debt relief for maybe like 2 years now.

>> Oh my gosh. And nothing's been paid off?

And nothing's been paid off because obviously Well, the the worst of it was like the the larger amount creditor is the one that offered first, and I accepted it cuz I didn't know at the time, you know, what to do. So, yeah, so that's the $11,000 one, and it's like I I haven't made a dent in it. >> Yeah, so we're getting out of that today. I I would If I were you, I'd call them up and say, "I don't want to keep doing this anymore.

What's going to happen?" And just make sure you read through what the contracts said so that you can come into the conversation and say, "Hey, I want to I want to get out of this. I realize this is what I must pay, or this is the penalty." Cuz there's going to be some penalty fee. And just realize this was not the way out.

is It's really a I didn't know tax, and

you're going to feel that, and it's going to be in way of I spent years

paying a debt relief program to get nowhere and unfortunately I co-signed on a loan. But what you're going to find is doing this on your own, [music] you are going to go so much further faster.

Christian's going to pick up. We're going to set you up with every dollar and there's free coaching on there. I want you to call the number to get a couple of minutes of free coaching so you can figure out your next right [music] steps and call us back anytime you need us. We will will will be here to help you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. We're going back to the phone lines where we have Ethan who is in my favorite place, Miami, Florida. What's going on, Ethan?

Hey guys, how are you guys doing? Doing great. How can we help today?

So, uh I'm trying to keep it brief for you guys. I I more or less have put myself

in a hole over the last 6 months or so.

Um made some dumb decisions and

have >> [snorts] >> locked myself in a financial bind. I

recently moved to Miami for work back in

October and it was about a $10,000 move

and to make it happen, I had to borrow money across some different avenues to make the move.

Um My rent is right at $3,000 a month and

late last year, I actually bought my

wife a new car. She needed a car um and

the payment for that is around $900 a month. Good. Oh God almighty.

That's a lot of money.

Yeah, it's it's pretty bad.

>> What's the full What's the full balance of the vehicle?

We owe about 50,000 on it. Wow. Okay. And we're

actually underwater.

>> [snorts] >> I've already looked into try to I'm sorry, I used the wrong phrase. We're upside down on it. Um

What could you get What's it saying for private sale?

I'm not sure, about 30.

Oh, is it an Is it a EV?

It is a 2025

uh Grand Cherokee.

Um Yikes.

That's >> So How much do you make it a month, dude? How much do you bring home?

Um my salary is right at 6,000 a month.

What about your wife? >> Um My wife is a stay-at-home mom.

How in the world did you figure a $50,000 vehicle?

Um My My wife has very good credit and the

dealer who sold it to us used

my income as the household income using her her credit.

So Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. All right, let's do this. Let's don't Let's don't Let's don't blame anybody.

Let's say >> not I made an irresponsible intention.

Yes, it's fully on me. I take full responsibility. How many kids do y'all have?

We have one son. Okay.

>> He is 8 months.

This is a hard truth that I'm putting on the table. Y'all have put yourself in a position where I don't believe you can afford right now to uphold this value

that you're holding, which is

we want her to stay at home with her kid for right now.

Y'all have a huge mess that can be solved in a year, in 2 years of everybody pitching in and going full bore.

Okay. But bro, I mean, you're underwater.

Is that Is that it? Is it Is it just the I mean, when I say just, is there anything to add to the pile of the $10,000 you borrowed plus the the the 20,000 you're upside down?

Is there more debt?

Um I I believe that that's about it. The 10,000 spread across couple different avenues.

Um Are there are like family members?

Did you borrow from family members?

Yes. Okay. Okay, so the good news is that's probably I mean, the way the debt snowball works, it's advantageous for the family members that you borrowed from and it's also advantageous for you because uh whenever there's people, you know, you've you've loaned money to family, it's just very very sticky and I want to clean that up for you.

Um here's here's the thing.

One making $100,000 a year is not what

it once was. And what happens is you get

the salary and you're like, yes, I'm making six figures and and and and it feels like it's going to be a way and then you're like, I made it to the pinnacle. I John Delony I remember that was the goal for forever. If you can make $100,000.

Yes. And then it's like, if I do that, I can get the place I want, I can get the car I want, I can live the life It was like that was the unlock.

It's not. It's just not. The way the world is, how expensive stuff is, and don't add a little bit of debt to it, right? That That money dwindles very quickly, which is what you're experiencing. Am I right, Ethan?

Um yes, that's that's right. To add to the situation, it's I am like paycheck

to paycheck right now. >> It's cuz of your rent, buddy. It's cuz your rent, Ethan, is 50%

of your take-home pay. There is no extra. There's there's nothing left. You could be a very reasonable spender, but when your rent is 50% of your take-home pay, everything is tight. So, first things first, um first things first is we need to find a cheaper spot. Now, you're in Miami, is

there a way to go a little bit north?

Can we go, you know, to a area that's less expensive? Can you go, do you see what I'm saying?

I I believe so. The the whole issue with moving is just the lease.

Um to break the lease >> How much is it going to be? 2 months?

It's 2 months to break the a lease. >> think >> about that. If you keep this around for the rest of the year that you owe it, think about how much you're going to be throwing away. If you can find a place uh that you guys can live You have a 8-month-old.

They take up this much space. So, if you can find a place that's a one-bedroom and the baby's crib or you know, their stuff is in your your room or you put the baby in the living room, this is the time. We had a caller earlier. This is the time to do the sacrifice.

The kids are young. You guys are young. You get in a one-bedroom.

You see what I'm saying?

You go a little bit north. Maybe you have a little bit more of a commute, but it it could be worth it to you.

Um what kind of work did you move to Miami to do?

So, I'm active duty in the military.

Okay.

Is there an allowance of some sort?

I'm sorry. Do you get any allowance?

Housing allowance or anything like that?

Yes, so our BAH is 3,200 and our rent is

2,900 and some change.

So, like within the BAH range, we're actually you know, within the budget, but But is that part of the 6K or is that in addition to?

That's part of the six. So, it doesn't matter at that point. Yeah, you're underneath your housing allowance, but your overall monthly income is still more than 50. Therefore, yeah, what I said still rings true. So, the key here is we got to cut the rent in half at the

least. >> Can you go live on base for a year?

We don't have that option um on this base. Okay.

Yeah. And then what I am going to do, and and I hate to say this, but yeah, I'm going to go down to the credit union. Uh if your wife's credit's still good before, you know, before you start missing payments, go down there and say, "We want a loan We need a loan for the difference here. We need a loan for $20,000.

And what's better, the only thing better than paying off $50,000 is paying off $20,000. Okay? So, instead of having a $50,000 loan, now you have a $20,000 loan. And now that frees up a a couple more hundred bucks um in your budget every single month. Do you see >> $900. >> Yeah, do you see how that works? >> $20,000. Jeez.

I I see how it works. >> Yeah, so that's what I want you to do, Ethan. Uh none of this is going to be uh pretty nor fun, okay? This is going to be something that you're going to look back on, you know, 15 years from now and go, "Oh my gosh, remember that apartment? Oh my gosh, remember when we got that loan?" And by the way, get the loan for 25 so that you can get it, you know, have a little $5,000 car that you drive, okay? That's the way this works.

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>> All right, back to the phone lines where we have Claire who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi, Claire. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, so I have a question about how to start a conversation with my family about some student loans. Um my mom helped me take out some parent

plus loans. They are all under her name.

I went to college about $36,000 worth

with a verbal agreement from me that I would help her pay them back. Um but now

that it is time for me to pay them back cuz I am out of college and they are coming due, um she is requesting the $36,000

payment in full.

But when I look back on my tuition bills, she received $17,000 in refunds that she never put back towards the loans.

So, I'm trying to figure out how to start that conversation [laughter] of I am not paying you $36,000. I am only

going to pay the amount that I used rather than what was >> [laughter] >> Yeah. So, it's I don't know. It's been interesting and I don't know how to start that conversation. Okay, so can can we cut right to the chase here?

Yeah. Um your mom Man, I hate to say this. This one hurts to say. Your mom is deceiving you. She's lying to you.

Yeah. And I just have a personal rule that if I'm dealing with somebody who lacks integrity, A, I'm going to make sure I don't lose my character in the process.

And B, I'm going to be very clear about what I will and will not do.

And I will see that through.

Because Because trying to preserve the relationship, she's already burned it to the ground. She's trying to extort you for $17,000 more. Wild.

Yeah. Right? That's That's madness.

A parent of integrity If If I did this with my kid, I would say, "Hey, dude, I actually spent 17 grand on my own. You owe me this much money." And it's It's a lot. It's not a number that you forgot. Like, "Oh, I forgot I did that." I I Honestly Honestly, I I I would I would print the bill out and go sit with her.

And say, "This is what was paid for my bill. I don't know how much you ended up taking out or how much you had deposited into your accounts.

Where's the other $17,000?"

Yeah. Yeah, she did let me log into her

like parent plus loan portal so I can

see how much she really did take out cuz for me and all of my sisters, but I had a feeling because then that would have made my schooling um

a total of $64,000 for 3 years, and I

only went to a state school. So, that price didn't really make sense. Plus, I was like in state. So, I did some research, and now I have to figure out how to have this conversation.

No. You got math on your side. You have bills and math on your side. I think it's a pretty straightforward conversation when it comes to the what you owe.

I think it's a harder conversation about what her choice to lie to you has done to your relationship. I'm I'm to find any I'm trying to find any reason this might be different. Is there any way that like during that Did she Did she buy you a car during that time?

Um so I lived at home. Uh so no. Um

there was one year I did move out

and lived off campus with some roommates, but I paid my rent. I also like paid my cell phone bill to her.

Okay. She did buy a plan for me. Wait, you're

breaking up. You're cutting out on us. Yeah, you're cutting out on us.

Okay. Oh, there you go. Now you're back.

>> you lived at home, you paid rent, but there was one time when what?

She bought a meal [clears throat] plan for me. A meal plan?

Yeah. It was like $2,000, and I figured if it became a super big issue, I would offer to pay that back, too. I I I I listen, if she if meal plan is part of school, I might add that back in and and

say say that. Say, "Hey, I looked it up.

Here's what I found. You know, slide her the paper like they do when they when you make a negotiation." And say, "Now, I do know that there was the one semester where you played paid for my meal plan. I know that that was $2,000.

I don't know if that's part of this. I don't see it. Uh you know, try to have some goodwill there, I think, but I agree with what John said, man. This is dirty. I hate this for you.

Yeah. Yeah, it's tough.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I I would commit walking in the door to what your boundaries are going to be on this one.

And play it as straight as possible. And the best you can, this is going to be hard cuz it's your it's your freaking mom. >> Your mother. But keep your wits about you and keep your integrity and keep your character and don't yell, don't scream, don't make accusations. Just be very clear. And luckily for you, this is all this is all tracked, right? You can see what she took out. You can actually probably go to the college and get the the bill that was transferred the day bills were paid.

I mean, you can do some a little bit of forensic accounting here and figure out exactly what she paid and exactly what she kept for herself. Wow. Shouldn't have to be like that. Jade, I've I've heard this over and over and over again working with college students.

I feel like we are in the era of the parent plus loan. I feel like we are getting so many calls about that. I don't know if it just happened, you know, in that decade >> the era, it's the bills are coming due for that era. Oh my gosh, and I just yeah.

I mean, obviously if you sign a parent plus loan, the parent is the one on the loan and usually what's gone awry here is there is some sort of verbal agreement either you will pay or you won't pay and then the time passes and inevitably someone forgot. It's either someone forgot or >> They change it. If you're in a position where you need to borrow a ton of so much money that you need to get a full Stafford loan and get a parent plus loan, Yo. then you're in a financial situation that's that's already challenging.

of integrity, another level of discipline to not spend that five. Oh, yeah. Cuz it feels like it just got free deposited. That's a problem for future us, we'll deal with it later. >> Yeah. And my daughter's going to be rich one day, she can cover it.

That's And that's not the agreement we made. >> It's not. It's not. Plus it's a fraudulent use of student loan money, to be honest with you, but it is [clears throat] what >> it is. Yes. >> So, yeah. But it's Jade, I cannot tell you how often I heard this story from college students. Parents would take out loans in their children's name and use that money to

pay for stuff around the house or whatever. >> Yes. And it just became it became an off-book stimulus program in a way.

>> Yeah, cuz you get the you get the amount of money needed for that that's allotted to you for the semester. The semester you So, say you get I don't know, I'm making this up. Say you get $7,000, but you only needed $5,000. The quote refund, 2,000 bucks just sitting there.

It's like, well, I may as well take it.

>> It's real hard to not >> Man, and so not sending that money back.

What's the moral of story, children? To to check your bill and make sure that YOUR PARENTS AREN'T JACKING YOU? Is that I think anytime you go into an agreement

with somebody you care about Yeah. and there is like financial borrowing in between you two, just expect that that relationship's going to get sideways at some point. >> It's going to and the best thing you can do um if you are listening and you're like, "Oh crap, I think I have parent plus loans and I think that this could end up being me." Try to jump on like don't wait. Don't wait.

Find like talk to that person today and say, "What's the deal with this?" If you're thinking about taking out those types of loans, of course I'm going to tell you don't do it.

And I know it's a tough conversation cuz let's take a minute and talk about this. College is expensive.

It's filled with expectations on the student end and the parent end, right? How many parents get so much pride over saying My kid goes to this school, yeah? Yes. Yes. And then there's the student who is probably in one of the most emotional periods of their life making this decision and it's like this is where all my friends are going and don't you want me to have this college experience? >> Colleges tune the sell the sales cycle

to a 18-year-old 17-18-year-old's feeling. >> Yes. Right? You hear college students say, "This was the one." Right?

Like they're choosing their like, "All right, well I got to mortgage my soul to because they found the one, right?" It's madness. It's madness. It's madness and and then there's the element of I guess I'm going to call it some sort of shame because what we're finding is a lot of parents are taking out parent plus loans and not telling the student that they did it. Not telling them that that's the way that this whole thing is being funded and then it comes back to bite in the butt later.

So guys, our teaching on this is so solid and so clear.

cash, okay? And I know that that sounds what? JD, you've lost your mind. No, the way to do it is you have to start talking about it before you're 17. You have to start talking about it very, very early setting that expectation.

Yes, you're going to school if it suits you because maybe college life doesn't even suit you for the career that you want. That's another conversation, but make sure it's said, "Hey, you don't have a college fund. We may not have a 529. We expect you to work part-time [music] or we expect that you'll go to a community college." Whatever that is, parents, please have that conversation.

There's no shame in that game. It is a privilege [music] if you are able to pay for kids' college and it is a privilege for both the parent and the student.

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This is what they said. They said, "I love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day, and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're on the same page. That's what I would call a win." Hey guys, you can do this, too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree, and you can live like no one else.

Go download our EveryDollar budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Love to hear it. All right, we've got John in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

What's up, John?

Hey, how are you guys doing? What's up, brother?

Hey, I was about a month ago or 3 weeks ago, I was an unfortunate victim of a crime that has totaled my wife's car. Oh. >> Um Yeah. What happened? Just unfortunate, wrong place, wrong time.

Um and my question for you is, we were about to start Baby Step 6, and now we're looking at options for a new car. And insurance is going to give me about $25,000 for the car that was totaled.

Um and my question to you is, is this an emergency fund situation where if we have some emergency fund dollars that we could put some of that toward a new car, or does that not fall into the bucket of emergency fund uses? Well, what was your wife's car worth? Usually, they'll give you the the value.

They did. It was worth Yeah, it's worth 25K. So, why wouldn't you not just use the 25 Why wouldn't you just use the 25,000 to buy a $25,000 car and and and move on and continue with Baby Step 6?

Well, I figured that's what you were going to say. The whole thing has been very emotional for us.

And my wife really loved her car. And so when dealing with this, you know, I can certainly go get a minivan for a six-person family for $25,000 easily. Um but it's not necessarily what she wants to drive. And I know that's probably not what you guys want to hear.

What happened? >> but it's just been uh So she was going on a retreat with some of her work um ladies. And the night before she said, "Hey, could you go fill up my car's gas? Would you mind?" I said, "Actually not." And while I was out, uh I decided I was going to get her a car wash as well.

Oh.

Wow. >> took they they took off Did they wreck it or something?

Uh yeah, I won't bore you with all the details, but it is completely totaled.

Man, I'm sorry, dude. That's terrifying.

That's traumatic. >> Yeah, it was. But we're working through it and God is good and he has a plan in all of this. I'm just trying to make the best decision moving forward.

Yeah. I Th- This like if we were sitting together and we had an hour just to hang out and have some nachos, I would say this a lot kinder and I would take a lot longer to say this, okay? So it's going to sound pretty abrupt. Is that fair?

No, that's That's fair. All right. Um this is one of those moments where the

line not by your hand but in your lap

really rings true.

You trying to be a good husband ended up in a wrong place, wrong time, and somebody truly victimized you and your family.

Sure. And you have a mathematical reality to deal with today.

Yeah. All right?

And so I it's your emergency fund, right? I mean, it's it is what it is. What I don't want you to do is to say, "Hey, this bad thing happened to us.

And since we really want something else, this is kind of our path to get the thing we really want. Cuz what you're going to find is that momentary "Hooray,

I got this awesome car." is going to come at the expense of well, now we've got to stop everything and build up our our emergency fund or we're going to have to make a car payment and you're going to find yourself lower than you were before.

Yeah. It's going to feel like a short >> it seems like the only way there is is backward, you know, and that's not what we want to do. We don't want another car payment. Um but I don't Yeah, it's you're just trying to I'm trying I think I'm trying to make the situation easier than it is, probably. No, I think you're trying I think you're continuing to try to be a noble and good husband and a good man and try to take away that

terrifying reality from your wife that to sometimes awful things happen.

Yeah. And doing an emotional thing next, which is I'll go buy you whatever car you want, it's going to be awesome and we're going to try to smooth over this pain with a not really wise purchase on a depreciating asset isn't the isn't the path forward, right? Really grieving this moment is the path forward. Going slow is the path forward.

Um Yeah, I agree. And I How how much money do you make a year, brother?

Uh between the two of us, we're we're around 250. Okay. So, how how In all

reality, if and this is going to sound nutty, but if you just held off,

could y'all one car for a month and just squirrel away everything you got?

Probably Well, it's it is a good question. Probably not. We just um We have four little kids, so we're split up between dropping them at school and my wife works a few days a week and I work every day of the week. And so, it's just the reality is is been a little bit challenging the last 3 weeks.

We've actually been uh borrowing a car that my dad has available because my mom actually recently passed away, so Okay. There's just all sorts of stuff going on. Yeah, sounds like a whole lot of going on. My My recommendation to everybody when something when a lot of life is happening at the same time is to make as few big decisions as possible.

Yeah. Until the smoke clears. If you could, just look at your wife and say, "Hey, we're going to white-knuckle this thing for 60 days." 6 0, that's it. 2 months. And we're going to drive this borrowed car and we're going to save up another 10 or 15 grand.

And then we're going to go get whatever car you want. Man, that's going to feel totally different.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe more fulfilling eventually. I promise you it will be, but it will be super painful right now. It'll feel like just getting kicked again while you're down, right?

Yeah. How much is in your emergency fund?

Oh, about 30,000.

Okay. Yeah. I I I think you're going to I mean, how much would you pull out of there?

I don't know. Any Excuse me, anything similar to what we had is probably going to be after tax around 50k would be my guess. Well, your your car she was driving, how old was it? Cuz it wasn't worth 50k at the time of the accident.

>> No, no, no. It was 20 It was 2016, but it had very low miles on it. 2016.

>> And this won't surprise you, but I put uh new tires on it 2 days prior. Of course you did. Yeah. Again, [laughter] cuz you're a good husband trying to take care of your family. >> I mean, can you afford on your salary to have a $50,000 car? Yes, you can. Do you have the cash today to buy it to have a $50,000 car?

Uh not unless you have another stash of liquid cash somewhere aside from your, you know, emergency [clears throat] fund. Um I think that you would feel if you took your your $30,000 emergency fund

down to even 10 to do this. I think that would make you feel I I don't think you would like the way that felt at night.

Yeah, I agree. Now, with four little kids. Yeah. And even if you if you took it in half and brought it down to 15, I still don't I mean, I could be wrong, John, but I don't think you would like the way that feels.

Yeah, I mean, we really to having that.

Exactly. Exactly.

>> You know, it's hard it's hard to go backwards. Yeah. >> Which is why it's such a conundrum in my mind. Well, here's the thing.

Here's the thing. If you buy something used, quite used, for 25,000, and you get something quite nice, but quite used, you really the the vehicle's really already taken the hit. And and in 6 months or in 8 months, when you've saved up some more, you could sell that vehicle really for probably what you paid for it and put another 10 or 15 with it and get what you really want.

>> Yeah, I agree. And can I give you can I give you a psychological [clears throat] trick?

Whenever something happens to us like this, um we feel like someone, whether it's the cosmos, whether it's the thief, whether it's the whatever, somebody owes us.

And that might be right in this sense in this justice sense, but it's not true in stone-cold,

feet on the concrete reality.

And so the more you're you live in this that's not fair, this isn't I don't like this, this shouldn't be this way, the more you're you're you're divorcing yourself from the reality in front of you. The other thing I want you to imagine, if this is the first big thing like this that would happen in your life, this sounds harsh to say, but the world you had, I would even go as far to say the marriage you had, is over now. Y'all

are living in a post somebody put a gun to your head and stole your car reality.

And so saying, "Okay, we're now moving forward, what do we want this world to look like? Do we want to go backwards financially? Do we want to live in debt?

Do we want to really grieve what happened and recognize we need to keep our head on a swivel, life's a little bit different now, and we're going to make the next right move with the 25,000 bucks we got?" Like, stop trying to say it used to be or we just want to get back to or it's It's fair.

>> [music] >> Man, the path forward is woo, this happened. What are we going to do next? What's the next right move for us? >> [music]

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>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored [music] by WhyRefi. If your private student loans are in default and other lenders said no, WhyRefi could be your next step. WhyRefi was built for this situation, helping borrowers refinance with a low, fixed rate and an affordable payment so you can get back to winning with money. Check out whyrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y dot com

slash ramsey. Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Elise in New Jersey.

Elise writes, "My partner and I have a blended family including four children.

When we discussed buying our home, we agreed that we would put both of our names on the title and mortgage. Bills are split between us." All right. Um bills are split between us with him paying more. After we moved in together, I found out that he has wealth that he had not disclosed to me. He was awarded a million dollars from a lawsuit. He draws on his disability, doesn't work, and makes more money than I do. I wake up before dawn, go to work, and take care of 90% of the housework and kids' responsibilities.

I'm livid finding out that he has such a large sum while I'm living paycheck to paycheck. He buys himself $5,000 gifts

whenever he wants and tells me like it's nothing. Should I let my anger go or let my partner go? Ooh child, that's wild.

John. Listen. Listen. Every once in a while I ask myself like how long is this

this job going to last?

And then [laughter] I read this and I'm like we are going to be employed forever. Man.

This is um okay.

Yeah. So she she says like quote she says um uh she says I'm livid while I'm living paycheck to paycheck he buys this. So

I don't think she's mad.

It's almost like let's be clear about what the problem is. The problem is not that he's spending some of the money.

The problem is not that he's telling you that he's spending the money. The problem is that he lied and never told you this money was there to begin with.

>> He's deceitful. He lied to her. He rubs her nose in it. And he's not a participant in the lifeblood of that home. Not at all. And I for one, I mean

progress is possible, John. You know, everybody everybody can change like Rocky Balboa said, but I for right now, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm dodging a bullet by by by

finding this out while we're still engaged. They're still engaged, right?

Yeah. >> It doesn't even say. It just says her and her partner, so I'm assuming they're not married. Otherwise, I hope they would have put spouse, but um They did buy a house together.

>> have They blended their kids. So, at least I Yes. Oh, lord. Lord. Lord.

>> have dodged a bullet like the Matrix.

Yeah, I She She Should my anger go or let my partner go is the ending question. I rarely say this uh this directly, but I think this is one that I say, "Bye, Felicia. I'm out." I I would.

I mean, if you wanted to I It's easy for us to say on this end. If you wanted to

um go further in on this and be like, "Listen, this is so not okay with me.

The only way that we can go forward is to have like some intense intense some type of counseling to try to repair this." Sure. >> Well, the relationship you thought you had is over. It's not even the same person. >> up, right? So, now it is, do I want to rebuild a life with a person?

And what would that look like? And I'm going to give him a path back to re-earning trust. And it would be from

not re-earning cuz he never had it. It's going to start from square one.

Like we got to tell the truth with each other. We have to support each other.

We're not going to Venmo each other for light bills and water bills. We're going to Our money is going to go in one pot and we are going to pay our bills. Okay.

>> This is madness. It's madness, but uh it's madness but and uh at least I'm kind of pivoting from you but going to the larger conversation here. Here's the problem with this whole deal because Elise, you're not the first one who's called in with a situation where kind of the story changed, right? I was with this person.

Once we made this leap over here, now I'm seeing the real them, right?

The problem when you enter into a relationship and there's no real commitment and you say okay to everything. Okay. Uh you want to combine our families and we're not married? Okay. Uh you want to have sex and we're not married? Okay. You want to move in and we're not married? Okay. >> buy a house together? >> You want to buy a house together and we're not married? Okay. Do you want to keep our our money separate even though the rest of our life is fully together?

Okay. You are setting in many ways you are setting yourself up to be a sitting duck for this sort of thing because this person can say, "Hey, we never actually committed." There was never actually a thing where I said, "All in." Therefore, why do I have to >> Well, it it it let's let's go even further. This guy would say, "Hey, as she wrote, we agreed." >> We agreed exactly >> exactly what we agreed to. Exactly.

And is it nefarious? Sounds like it is. Is it Is it something >> exactly what y'all agreed to. Right.

And that's the thing. That's why the rules There's a There's a reason that there's order to things because when there's order to things, it helps things be in order. Well, and it helps it helps darkness come to light. >> Yeah.

I'm not going to um buy a home with you

until both of us have a sitting with a

mortgage lender and both of us have our financial lives laid out in front of both of us until we both commit to like outside of those you just leave pockets of secrets even the ability to have secrets, right? >> Yes. So yes, so the moral is and this is

not just to women, this is to men.

Require commitment. Like go require it.

You're not going to just give people access to these major meaningful parts

of your life that have the ability to really screw you if if they if they mess with you. Don't do it unless you're getting full commitment. Require it. I don't just I my pastor used to say this, you know, we we talk about commitment and and it's really an all or nothing deal that like that is what it is.

Like you're in, you fully commit, you're like locked in. And what's not okay, it's [clears throat] never okay for somebody to say, "Yes, I'm committed to you, but on Sunday I do my thing. Like [laughter] like on Sunday I go out. That's my day, you know, I'm everything but that, right?" And it's the same thing with marriage.

You can't be like, "Hey, I'm committed to you. We can put our kids together. We can you know, buy a house together, but when it comes to my money, that's you know, that's the day I do my thing. Like that's my son right Do you see what I'm saying?" Require it.

Like somebody should say, "I commit to you and I will take everything and I will show you my everything." Like that is that is the best part of marriage is

having full transparency. And if somebody's not willing to give you that, cut them loose. And I yes, amen and amen. And I I I just it's it's amazing this is coming up.

I was just reading a a pre-copy of my friend Shawn Johnson and her husband Andrew East wrote a book on this commitment. She's a Olympic athlete, he was a pro football player.

And the whole premise of the book is so powerful and that is we've lied to ourselves and told us our culture has told us that you always have to leave doors open, you always have to keep your options open, you always have to keep an exit strategy, you always have to everything is always on the table for negotiation, and what both of them this book is so powerful.

Actually, freedom is not in endless choices and endless opportunities.

That's a recipe for anxiety and chaos and being paralyzed. Right? There's tons of of psychological research about that.

The power, the freedom you're chasing is actually in going all in.

And going through the difficult conversations, through the difficult negotiations. I want to stay up late, I want to go to bed early, I want to keep my money, well, I don't feel safe. Going through that and coming out on the other side anchored into something bigger than yourself, that is where we all want to

be. We're all just chasing this lie of man, you always got to have a you always got to have a crack in the door cuz you never know, you got to keep what's yours and don't let them have everything. And what that does is it keeps you from ever having anything. Wow.

Wow. I'm that's something to think about. That is there's a lot in that.

But what you said reminded me of it's kind of like part of this is when you

say okay to less than what you were saying.

You're avoiding the conflict of it.

>> the conflict and you're making a statement about your own perceived value of your worth. >> Yes. But going back yes, and going back

to the conflict part I read a long time ago, I can't remember what it was, but it was talking about how our greatest relationships, right, when you see it as concentric circles and they go out out out out. The the the core of our relationships, the ones that are in the very middle, that's our husband, maybe your best friend, those are the people who are willing to enter into real conflict and come out on the other side. Because conflict is connection if you both are anchored to the same thing. >> Yes, that's why there's concentric circles cuz the wider out you get, those are the people who aren't willing to engage in conflict.

conflicts to get to the other side and be there with you." >> Yes, cuz cuz being celebrated and challenged matters. It matters.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm here with Dr. John Delony. We're still taking calls about your life and money.

So, call in 888-825-5225.

Jennifer from Detroit, Michigan is on the line with us. Hey, Jennifer, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, how can we help? >> Um So, my 23-year-old son will be graduating from the University of Michigan in May and uh he has racked up

$96,000 in student debt.

Um he did have a scholarship that he

lost in his freshman year and I've done

everything I could to help him apply for scholarships, get him to sit down and uh

get some type of money other than

student loans and he didn't want to participate.

Now, my dilemma is he's 23 years old. He

just got a full-time job in supply chain management. He's going to be making about 70, 72, maybe 75,000 depending on

overtime. But, he also went out and against mom's advice, went out and got a brand new pickup truck uh at $400 a month plus insurance. $400

a month? >> I Yes.

So, do I charge him rent

um living in my house for the next year is what he's predicting or what I would charge him in rent, do I make him pay towards his student debt?

What's the purpose I want to know your heart behind this. Are you would is the rent as some sort of like retribution? I

guess Or like it's some sort of punishment or is it No, no, no. Um, I I don't want to enable bad behaviors. Um, I I've hear I've been

hearing people say Oh, you know, if your kids going to be

living at home, they should contribute to the household. >> living at home?

Uh, he he's not ready to move out yet.

He's he's graduated.

Right. He doesn't want to move out yet for another year. Uh, his girlfriend uh,

is going to be She went in to um,

graduate school. She'll be graduating year. So, it's my guess. >> with anything?

I know. I don't know how to have that conversation with him. >> I don't think I I mean I'm just going to be straight up with you. Uh, Yeah. he's

He It sounds like you've been displeased with some of his choices. That's fine.

Um, despite good advice being sent his way, that's fine. I fear that because of that this is just one of the the fears on my list. I fear that because of that if he moves in you're going to find yourself meddling.

Because you already know, well, he did this, he shouldn't have done that. And then there's he did this, he shouldn't have done that. And I think that that's going to be not good for neither you nor him. Like that's just not going to be good. Um, second, he makes $70,000 a year.

Move out. >> Right.

Move out. Um, Yeah. >> Here here here's what he Yeah, I here's what he needs.

He needs a sturdy mom.

Mhm. Not a rigid mom, but not an overly

flexible one either.

Right. >> And so whether you charge him rent or if you just say, "Okay, for 1 year, here's the deal. You are his new landlord.

And you get to determine any and all stipulations for living in your house."

Let me say it clearly, he doesn't get a vote.

Okay. You get the vote. And then he gets to make a grown-up choice. If a company is going to trust him with $75,000 worth of his um uh skill set and and he didn't have any wisdom yet. He's only 23. But with with his judgment, then he

he has enough judgment to make his own grown man decision on whether he's going to follow mom's rules.

And and that might be, "I'm going to let you live rent-free for 6 months or for 1 year, but my expectation is you put this much money a a month towards your student loans, and your student loans is this dollar amount when you leave.

And every month that you don't send it in, you get one and done and you're out.

You're evicted." Here's the only thing I Okay, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm >> But only thing I don't like about it, I think it's a The only thing that I I don't want to say don't like, the only thing that bothers me about it is you're still telling him what to do.

Which in your house, you have the ability to do that to your child. >> He's opting into it at this point, though. >> opting into it, but I feel like a guy like this, he needs doesn't need mom to tell him what to do. He needs to go out in the world and learn. That mom was right all along. That mom was right all along, and it hurts to have $96,000, and

you shouldn't have taken out a truck payment. I feel like if he's still there, he's going to keep the car. He's not going to sell it. He's going to move very uh sheepishly on these these loans.

Uh that's my only concern. Oh, I I I've got uh 50 concerns. I I

The [laughter] the fact that that you told us he's not ready to move out yet, and you're letting that be a reason why he's going to move in?

That in and of itself is a joke.

I I don't have a problem and I'm I would love to be able to have him move out. My mom has a house that she had to move out of uh to an assisted living that's

sitting empty and we've offered for him to make the rent rent payments and put it into escrow and when she sells the house, he gets that uh money back. He

refuses to do that. So, I don't know how >> When you say refuses, what does that look like? No. He does What does that mean? >> to. He's like he he goes, "I'm not ready. I don't want to take care of the yard. I don't want to take care of the house. Well, he he's he's allowed to do that, but he also doesn't That doesn't

mean he automatically gets to then move in with you.

Both things can be true. Well, you're not living here.

When he says he's not ready to even Okay, so take the grandma's house Take grandma's house off the table. When you say, "Hey son, just go on and get an apartment." and he says he's not ready, what does that mean?

He doesn't want to go out. He doesn't want to live on his own. Yeah.

>> He He doesn't have any buddies close enough to him that he'd want to have a a roommate. >> Yeah, but he does want to make a hundred thousand dollars worth of financial decisions and not study or not or get in trouble with the school and lose your scholarship. He does want to make big boy decisions when it comes to just walking out and buying a truck he can't afford. And and it's very um there's nothing that you can say concrete that says "But I will be in one year." Right?

What will happen that will cause you to be ready in one year? Do you see what I'm saying? What can he point back to? What What What are the steps that will be taken that will let me know that I don't know, just emotionally or socially you'll be ready to do that in one year even.

>> [gasps] >> One of the greatest gifts we can give them is the consequences of their own problems."

Yep. And my guess is you've been bailing him out for most of his life.

And there will come a day when the the bailout stops, the sooner

and the more preserved y'all's relationship is, the better.

Yeah. Okay. And the good news is, here's the thing, Jennifer, it's not like you're saying >> [music] >> and the door is locked and you can never come He can come over for dinner, I'm sure, as much as he wants. He can come over and watch the game. He can come over and you can Do you have Do you have his laundry at your house? But he's going to throw a grown-up temper tantrum. "It's not fair. I can't believe you're doing this to me." All that stuff. And he's going to he's going to throw a

an age-appropriate temper tantrum.

That we should have held these boundaries back when he was 12, back when he was 15. Now he's 23.

Um so we're going to have to weather that storm, but we're going to stay sturdy in that storm and stick to our guns on that. What's the greatest thing [music] for 30-year-old him, 28-year-old him? Um it's some really firm boundaries from Mom about [music] what she will and will not accept.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> So, here's the deal, guys. We wish we could get to every call and question on the show, but that's just not possible.

So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use the Ask

Ramsey, okay? Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven

Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way that we'd answer it right here on the show. Uh ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or click I'm sorry, or if you're watching on YouTube or listening to the podcast, just click the link in the description. All right. All right.

All right. Going over to Timothy, who's in Albany, New York. Timothy, how can we help today?

Yeah. Hi, you guys. How's it going?

Doing good. >> was just curious.

So, I'm 25 years old.

I'm married. I have a 2-year-old.

And I have about $5,000 to my name and I'm expecting $11,000 tax return because

of extra withholdings from last year.

And the only debt that I have, you know, we rent and stuff and we have cars that we paid cash for. Um the only debt I have is my wife's student loans, which are around $12,000.

So, I'm curious and I can tell you the interest rates on each one of her loans.

Um if you'd like, but I'm curious if I should take this $11,000 that I'm getting from the tax return and pay off

the majority of that the debt and be left a very minimal a very minimal what do you call it backup fund emergency fund or if I should put that into like a savings account or something maybe a CD that gets 3% or something high and have it just counteract the interest while I'm paying it off it's very low payment monthly. Yeah, I liked your first idea.

11,000 is the refund amount?

Yeah. And 12,000 is the student loans amount?

Yep. >> And then you have did you say you had 5,000 in cash somewhere?

Yes. I would pay off as soon as you get that refund I'd pay off the entire balance of the student loans and I'd use $1,000 from your your savings. Bro, you're about to be free.

This is awesome. >> Free. So you think you have I mean it's just a scary place being the only person that makes income. It's scary to be debt free. Be debt free.

I've never heard anyone say it's scary [clears throat] to be debt free.

This is a risk placement. It's where you're placing your risk and it happens all the time. So you're you're you're not different than a lot of folks that call in.

When you're talking about fear it's kind of like oh I'm really scared that something will happen, right? And what could be the worst thing that happens? You lose your job in this situation.

Yeah. Okay. So you lose your job. Let's

just play it out. You lose your job and instead of using the tax refund you you know just just before you lost your job you put the tax refund over in savings and so now you've got you know $16,000 in savings still got the 12,000 student loan and now you've lost your job. First thing is like okay I've lost my job I'm only going to pay for the most important things, right? So now you're trying to

scrimp on things and you're like maybe I won't pay the student loan and now suddenly that student loan payment is even more like punishing to you because you're like I'm having to take money that I don't have and I'm having to pay that bill every single month. That is stressful. Right.

Whereas if you say, "Hey, >> could be if I lower my if I lower my expense it takes to live by paying off my debt and I have some money saved, some money, if the worst happens and I lose my job, it costs hardly anything to even operate my life cuz I have no debt. I don't have to worry about bill collectors calling me. Nobody can take anything from me.

Nobody can come after me cuz I don't have any debt. And the good news is,

let's pretend uh you know, you had a couple of months.

How quickly could you save back up the $5,000 that you had? You would you're going from four to five or from five to four I should say. How quickly could you put another thousand dollars there?

A thousand, I'm I'm not sure. Um my wife

and I have just started our super budgeting. I've been doing most of the finances since we got married in 2012. >> Surely you could do it quickly without without a student loan payment.

>> Yeah. And without any other debt. >> we're even paying on it right now.

Okay, then that means that >> It's just growing on you like a cancer.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. What do you make every month?

I make around 5,000. My wife makes 200 bucks. Okay. >> So with no with no debt, you think in

two months you can muster up 5,000 500 bucks this month and 500 bucks next month somehow?

By cutting back? >> I think you could. You have to cut back a little bit, but I think you could do that. And then you're right back money savings-wise, you're right back where you were and you have no debt. And can we call out one other thing? Have you gone to fix your withholding?

I've I've up I've For so I just got a new job a couple months ago and I'm not withholding this year. I just got a job right at the start of this year, but last year I was withholding. So if you think about it, um this isn't new money.

The government just took about a thousand bucks a month from you and held it for you interest-free.

>> Right. That's right. >> And then they gave it back to you. So, if you'd been making that thousand bucks a month or I mean closer to 900 bucks a month all year, this student loan would have been paid down. >> I'll you're going to get what is the equivalent of a thousand-dollar a month raise. That you should have had all along. And and that Yeah, it was your money all along.

And so, do you feel >> That that is a good point. And and bro, I've been paying So, being 25 years old paying for everything is stressful. I just just about turn 26,

so I'm off my parents' health insurance for $150 a week. >> Yeah. Okay, but can I can I can I do something that doesn't get done enough?

Can I celebrate you, man?

Cuz I hear a ton of young men just opting out completely of responsibility, of fear, of things that like don't have certain outcomes. They're just quitting.

And you looked and said, "You know what?

I'm going to go in. I'm going to commit all in with one person to get married.

We're going to go do another terrifying thing. We're going to combine our finances. We're going to do another terrifying thing. We're going to make a human, maybe even more." Like, dude, I want to celebrate you because what you're going to find on the other end of this responsibility is purpose and deep deep value and more joy. More fear,

yes, but more joy than you could have ever imagined on the other side. So, I applaud you, brother, for going in at 25. And you're feeling the weight of that squat bar, dude, of taking care of a family. That's where you get stronger.

That's where all the good stuff in your life's going to come from. And I'm proud of you, brother.

Appreciate it, though. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. Listen, choose freedom. Don't chase interest rates. Choose, as for me and my household, nobody will ever own us.

And that just means I'm not going to borrow money. >> to a lender, right? >> That's exactly right. I'm opting out.

>> I appreciate it, man. >> I'm proud of you, man.

Call us back into your debt-free screen, man. We're proud of you. Uh I love that.

That was so nice, John. People don't men don't say nice things to other men enough. >> I've got to change that. Um look, most of the guys in my life are the way we tell each other that we love each other is by making fun of each other. >> [laughter] >> Right. >> funny and that's that's 99% of my communication with my friends. But it's

it's one of the things I want to make different this year is if I see a man out in the wild like trying to make a difference in his home, in his family tree, in his community, It's a big deal. >> I'm I'm going to call it out because we need more men look seeing each other and saying, "Okay, I've got I've got another brother-in-arms on this one." Yeah, and listen, the ladies, we can help with that, too, huh? I mean, yeah.

So, I I'm going to say it the wrong way, but there I saw you post one time about like like grab your husband and like like grab his face and just look at him and say thank like I'm proud of you.

Thank you. >> Uh you're you're working hard and I see that. >> to melt the man in your life? I'm going to do it tonight. Grab your husband by the face and look him in the eye and and put your forehead on his forehead and just say, "I'm so grateful for you. I'm proud of you." Shoot. All right, Sam.

Well, should I get ready? >> That'll that'll end him. That'll [laughter] end him. That will end him. The most common thing

I hear from men behind closed doors is two things. One, I don't know why

my wife doesn't like me. >> Oh, no. >> And often when they ask that, I can say like, "Well, it's these 14 thing like, right?" Um but the other thing is

they they take they tell me in private, "I wish she could just understand that I do all of this for her." It's an audience of one. And and >> [music] >> and and here's the deal.

We go where we're celebrated. And if you're not your spouse's biggest cheerleader, somebody else or some other thing will be. And so, however hard it is, however difficult it is, >> [music] >> man, if you're married to a good one, man or woman, >> Let them know. Let them know and celebrate them. Um It It just It means the world. It does. All right, Sam Warshaw. You already know. You already know.

>> [music]

>> If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back, March 14th through 21st, 2027.

Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Cay, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

sell out, just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

>> [music]

[music] >> Peyton in Lubbock, Texas, is on the line. Hi, Peyton.

Hi. What's up, dude? Um I've been a long-time listener, and um kind of nervous to be on the line with you guys, because I kind of feel like I already I you're going to say. So Uh-oh.

[laughter] Don't We'll be gentle.

Awesome.

You You get to pick the heat factor. We can bring it in gentle at a one or two, or we can bring it at a nine or 10. You let us know.

Uh let's go with an eight. All right.

Buckle up.

Okay, so um kind of a loaded question today, and it goes back I started listening to the Ramsey Show in 2020 um when I was incarcerated, and when I got out, I started doing things the right way. Um and then I lost my job and

fell back into debt, and um found another job, but it didn't pan out. Fast

forward four failed jobs later, and I get hit by a train. Oh my goodness. This is crazy. This is insane. This is unbelievable. >> You got hit by a train? >> Holy moly. Yes, sir.

>> Bro, your life is a love it country song, man.

So um I'm used to doing mostly manual labor in my life. Um I recently got married. Um

So that's a plus.

Um my wife and I combined finances, and I'm

going through all of our debts the other day, and I'm realizing that we're $100,000

in debt, and I can't work yet. And so I

started looking for a part-time job recently. Um she only makes $12.50 an hour, so she

doesn't really make a whole lot as far as income.

Um she's had a really hard time keeping a steady job in for the last four years, and I just don't I don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. I'm I'm at a loss.

I'm I've I've called my way out of debt three times in my life, and I

I'm beside myself right now.

Um on top of that, I have a $750 a month

child support obligation that I am unable to pay.

So, my kids are going without and I'm

I'm just beside myself.

Hey brother, I want to applaud you for calling, man.

This is a hard phone call, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm grateful that you called.

So, some of the debts are she's got $5,000, almost $6,000 in student loans.

Um they have been deferred until this year, and

so now she's having to start paying on those. Okay.

And um

Um because I've been in and out of work for about 2 years now, um I'm already got back child support debts. So, How much?

Uh I've got about $10,000

on one kid and about 5,000 on the other. Let me ask

you, dude. The way you're ask you're telling us your story, um you fell into debt, you got um like

the jobs went away.

If you were to look in the mirror and take full ownership here,

why do you keep getting laid off of work? Are you not showing up on time? I There's construction going like I was just in Lubbock a couple weeks ago. There's construction projects all over the place. Um so, I recently moved to

Texas. Um Okay.

Like I got hit by the train. My My is

from a little small town outside of Lubbock.

And so when I got hit by the train, she

was already here. I just moved in with her. >> What's your medical status? When are you going to be able to to get back after it? There's there's so much opportunity for those who will pick up a shovel and get after it in Lubbock, Texas.

Well, like I said, um uh I'm already looking for a part-time position. Um abilities Uh I have a fused elbow and so Okay.

shoveling is not exactly Yeah, that's really challenging. Yeah.

Payton, when that happened, I mean, I I don't know of any other way to say it, so I don't I don't want it to sound um

rude, but were you at fault or was there was there fault Was there Is there any thing that's going to come up this >> at fault. Um I was definitely at fault for the train accident. Um I was I found myself making $50 a week uh at this

sales position. It was a traveling door-to-door sales position where they promised the world and never delivered.

Um so I uh I was making $50 a week and barely able to have food. She was working the same job with me and she couldn't make it either, so she decided to go home.

And I had seen what happens when

people leave the company when they don't have anything, so I wasn't about to get dropped off at a bus station with nothing. Um and so >> try to jump a train?

>> I tried to jump a train home. Okay.

>> And it didn't work. Okay. Um it was going faster than I thought and it caught me. So let me ask you this. Are you ready to change everything? Mhm.

Absolutely. I've If you only knew, my friend. Okay. All right. So here here's my call out.

Number one, when you get off this call, I want you to call over to Family Counseling Services. I think they're off Avenue Q over there in Lubbock.

Okay? >> Okay. And they [snorts] have sliding scale and they support folks who are struggling financially, but you got to get in and sit with somebody. Okay?

You got a lot of demons in your back.

Right? Yeah. Okay. Number two, you can't kind of look for a part-time job.

You've got to make it your life's mission to get two jobs by the end of this week.

And I'm and I'm putting that pressure on you cuz I think you can.

And they're not going to be fun and you're going to be exhausted and you're going to be sore, but I want you to commit to it.

Cuz what you need right now more than anything is a bunch of little wins.

And these debt collectors can ask all day long, but bro, you got kids and I want to get those guys squared up and you do too. I can hear it in your voice, right? Yeah. All right, so let the bill collectors keep calling you for a minute. You don't have anything anyway.

And your wife has got to either get the help she needs

or she's got to make a commitment, I'm going to go get a second job. I can't just can't just putter by on $12.50 an hour. >> She's actually about to get a $9 an hour

Well, $8.50 an hour raise Great.

Awesome.

Yep, as soon as she gets this test done.

Okay. But, listen to me. Jade and I are going to give you and her the premium EveryDollar app.

Mhm. Because you know as well as I do.

>> EveryDollar app because we're in Financial Peace University currently through our church. Sweet.

>> Good. Good. The worst thing that can happen is y'all get an $8 an hour raise or $9 a and you don't budget it cuz it will disappear faster than you get it, right?

Right. Yep. So, we're going to be we're going to be militant in our discipline when it comes to our spending and our budgeting.

And we're going to have to go for walks. We're going to have to go over there to severe park and go for and go I mean, go for walks together. We're going to have to get a I don't know, a soccer ball and kick it. We're going to have to do stuff that don't cost any money cuz that's where we are right now.

Right. Right?

And if you'll go get a job, you'll go get two jobs and you commit to a year of being uncomfortable. You're already uncomfortable. Commit to being uncomfortable to in a direction that's going to change your life.

Right. You know what I'm saying?

Yep. Go sit down with the counselor over there who will work with you and say, "I'm ready to change some of the stuff I've been put sit down some of that crap I've been carrying for all these years."

You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

We both think you can do it, man.

Also, you know what? Hang on the line. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take the career assessment inside of it. It's incredibly insightful. And begin to ask yourself not just after a year of survival jobs, what do I actually want to do?

What can I do in this local community here in this great city of Lubbock, Texas? What can I do that's going to contribute to this city, to the people who've been where [music] like who are where I used to be?

And now you're talking about changing everything in your life. But you need to some little wins, brother. Hang on the line. We'll get you hooked up with some resources. We're We're We're your number one and two fan.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year, and I hope you are, too. But, the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money, or I'm going to get my financial act together.

But, without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win, and our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now.

And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money, so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So, don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year.

>> [music]

[music] >> The Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day, 2 [music] Corinthians 9:10.

Now, he who supplies need to the seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness.

Thomas Sowell, is that is that right?

Sowell? Said this, "It's okay to have your eggs in one basket as long as you control what happens to that basket." All right. I'm with you, Thomas. I'm with you.

All right. Ann is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Ann. How can we help today?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um so, guys, I'll just get straight to the point, and if you need more details, just let me know.

history?

Why don't you have any of that? How were you living before? I So, I am a long-term at Ram the

listener back in 2023. I paid off all of

my student loan debt of like 49,000. So,

um after that, I was living with my parents for a little bit and now my fiance and I are getting married this August. So, I've never had a rent

payment and um yeah, my student loan history is like the loan providers say that it's too long ago to count for anything. So, it's hard to get approved. Um what about your fiance who will be your husband?

What's his scenario? Cuz if you guys buy this house, it'll be together, no?

Correct. Yes, correct. So, he actually has he is debt-free, too. Um but he has had

like a line of credit since he's been 18. He's been very responsible with his

money. So, he does have a really good credit score. So, when we go into loan providers to get approved, he gets approved and then I get approved for nothing, basically. Okay. So, they're going to go It's going to go one one way or the other. You're either going to go like the zero credit score underwriting way or you're going to go the credit score using his credit score way.

Um in your case, the only I mean, I can go through the requirements, but I think you already know this. You have to show 12 months of documented rental history. And it's not by amount, it's just showing that you were good for a payment for 12 months.

So, unless you're in some way going to

postpone buying this house, I mean, I don't know. When's the wedding?

Uh the wedding is in August.

Okay. 2026. Yeah. Um other thing is

>> So, for manual underwriting, you have to show 12 months. >> Mhm. Yeah. You have to 12 You have to show 12 months of documented rental history. Uh you have to show 12 months of other trade lines, things like cell phones, utilities, insurance payments.

You have to show actual money, so you have to show income for the last 12 months, uh 24 months if you're self-employed, uh and also provide pay stubs for the last 30 days, um if you're self-employed. And yeah, so that's that's a necessity. So I have two I have

two thoughts on what you said. One is you can just say, "Okay, my husband has a credit score and it's really really good. We'll just get a mortgage using that." No one's going to fault you for that, um if he still has a credit score and it's still really good by then. Um so you could go that route. Second thought though that I have is what's the rush to buy a house so quickly? You will you will have just gotten married.

Usually we'd say, you know, wait a year at the very least 6 months.

Yeah, I I definitely see what you're saying. We're definitely not opposed to renting. I think it's just the fact that

um we've been pretty good at I mean, we followed the Dave Ramsey I have followed the Dave Ramsey plan and we've saved quite a bit and we're we're ready, I guess, if we wanted to be, but we're not opposed to renting, I guess, if that's your what you're hearing. It's just if we come across something we really love, we would love to put in an offer, but otherwise we we're totally fine renting.

I if you are a long-term Ramsey listener, uh can I throw one thing else at you?

Yeah. And you know what I'm going to say? Yeah, I think so. >> Yes. Um you put yourself we Jade and I would only have jobs.

Dave, Ken, Rachel, George, all of us, we'd only have jobs if >> [snorts] >> be- because people have these plans

and the plans don't work out like they hoped.

So I cannot tell you there won't be anyone else in the world other than your family rooting for you and your marriage more than me. I'm I'm the world's biggest fan of be- of marriage, okay?

And I only have a job because people get engaged and then it falls apart.

And so, you know I'm going to tell you this, I would not buy anything with somebody that I didn't have the legal protection of being married with first.

And so, even if even if that is nothing else to say, let's let's

rent let's let's get married let's live together let's figure out distance from grocery stores and distance from our favorite music clubs and distance from our church, whatever we want to do.

Let's get all that settled before we anchor ourselves to a home, especially when we don't have when you don't have neither of you all have the protection the legal protection of being being legally married. Yeah, I agree.

That's just what I would tell my friends, that's what I would tell my sister, that's what I would tell my daughter, that's what I would tell my son. So, I'm telling you what I would tell the people closest to me.

No, I I agree with that. I've definitely heard you all say that before and it has crossed both of our minds. So, And I know you all are special. The >> [laughter] >> only other people have issues, right? I get that I get that. But, um that's just something to think through.

No, yeah, for sure. >> So, have have you have you tried the manual underwriting process with the with the loan officer yet?

Uh yes, and the it's the 12 months of

rent history that I keep running into.

So, like I I've tried to like give them my student loan payments that I paid back like >> Yeah, but those are trade lines. That's it's not the same. It's it really does hit different. So, I I think this is a

let's call this um divine [clears throat] intervention? >> Yeah, this is a sign. This is a sign

that is maybe you're not quite ready. I mean, clearly you yourself are not quite ready because you don't have the necessary things in place.

Um and then if you guys get married and you guys go in on this obviously together as husband and wife, it might make sense. Uh like I said, to to do everything based on what he's showing on his side because either way it's going to run one way or the other. You're going to go based on manual underwriting with a zero credit score or

um it's going to go based on uh his side with a credit score. So, And know this, banks only make money when Well, it's not completely true, but they generally make money when they make loans.

And so, if if a bank looks at you and says, "We don't feel comfortable giving you this money." >> [laughter] >> Take that Take Take their word for it.

You know what I mean? Even if you're like, "Dude, I have a great job. I've got plenty of money in the bank." Whatever. All right, fine.

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. We'll sock away more cash.

We'll rent a a small little place. We'll spend our time not worrying about the roof and the air conditioner, but just worrying about getting to to know each other even better. And then we'll buy a house down the road. >> Yeah.

Or, you know, right today you could start paying your parents some little bit of rent today and pay that through August or September, whenever it is you're getting married, and then you and your guy rent an apartment for 3 months, and then you're square. You're ready to go.

That's I don't know that. Is that Does that work? Can you do that? I don't know. That's That's a little shady.

>> [laughter] >> Say a little shady, JOHN. YEAH.

DON'T No fraud. No fraud.

>> [laughter] >> Run that one back. Okay. Yeah, so you've got some options, some of WHICH ARE FRAUD. >> [laughter] >> I'M SORRY.

UM YEAH, HOPEFULLY WE can talk some sense into this uh for you. I I agree

wholeheartedly with John. I would I would just wait. All signs are pointing towards wait. If you wait, you have everything you need. Uh you can buy the house together. It's fully secure.

Everything is on the other side of waiting for this. So, that is what I would suggest. And a muscle for you and your new husband to to begin to exercise is you both really want a thing but the timing is just not right yet. And learning to be frustrated together, to grieve together, to be annoyed together both towards the same thing that actually will make you all stronger in the long run. >> That's so good John. That that's a word.

>> cuz you're going to want a new Tahoe and you're not going to have money for it. You're going to want a third kid but timing is just not right. Like you're going to want things and you all are going to be frustrated together. Start practicing that right now.

Have you ever noticed Okay, here's a quick food for thought for the end of the show. When you're broke and I'm not saying they are. Have you noticed that when you're broke you want so much. There's so much that you want to buy and go do and everything feels like like anguishing to wait.

>> Why not Why not? Yeah. >> Yeah. And then when you can finally get it you're like oh.

I I maybe didn't want it anyway.

You just wanted the option of saying

I can choose. >> That's right. You know, it's just something to that. Oh my gosh, what a great time. Hey [music] guys, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus.

[music]

>> [music]

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## 80. Getting Out of Debt Takes More Effort Than It Took to Get You In | April 21, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Warshaw is my co-host today, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. Our phone number here is 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some [music] say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Shawn is in Fargo, North Dakota.

Hey, Shawn, what's up in your world?

>> Oh, not much, Dave. Just enjoying my life. >> Good. How can we help?

>> So, I am kind of stressed out right now

in a little kind of in a pickle, feels like, with my family.

They are give or take 5 to 6 million

dollars in their family business debt.

And I am struggling to

um struggling like to cope with like my dad has an ailing

health and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that

his business has.

>> Okay. Do you work there?

>> Uh part-time.

>> Okay. >> Cuz I can't I can't handle full-time there. >> Can't handle it. What do you mean? Him?

You can't handle him?

>> No, just the ideology he has in the

business dealings.

>> Okay. So, why is it bringing you stress?

You have a part-time job with a business that's in trouble.

And with a guy whose ideology you don't uh agree with. Why would that be cause you to be stressful? >> I will be most likely be inheriting it with my three brothers, the business, which is probably worth around $10 million.

>> Mhm.

>> And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and all the like the business side of it to pretty much be full-time.

>> When are you supposed to do that?

>> Um probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

>> I'm so confused. Okay.

Um Yeah, I mean, so you're going to be part-time with the guy you disagree with while he runs a business in the ground for the next 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing. Why don't you just say I don't want it?

I don't I don't want it. >> Cuz so I I mean, it's a good Oh, I shouldn't say it's a good business.

But is it really worth cuz he tries to get

me to go full-time like almost weekly on a weekly basis.

>> Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things. So, it makes sense that we would say that. >> like something I want to do. Why would you want to do this?

>> Yeah. So, is it So, I guess I want to

ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, you should start taking off this debt?

Or because they're thinking about adding another >> Who's they? >> $1.25 million debt. My my family. >> Your brothers.

>> Yeah, my brothers. They want to go another million dollars into debt.

>> are your future Who are your future partners?

>> All my brothers. >> Yeah, but you said it You say your brothers are dumb as your dad.

>> You said it before yourself, Sean. You said their ideologies completely different than yours. And I think you need to accept that that that that's the case and you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology.

And so, if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just entrenching themselves further in that. And you're part-time.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> I operate heavy equipment.

>> All right. Are you a Are you the baby of the family?

>> No, no, I'm not. Second oldest. No, third oldest. >> Middle. Okay. All right. Yeah, um well, here here's the thing. I don't think that these people are going to change.

Do you?

>> No, I don't. I >> Okay. So, you either got to walk away from them or you got to enjoy their bull crap.

>> Yeah, it's the one way to put it.

>> I mean, you really do. You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be. If it's me, I'm going to let them have it. I'm going to walk away. >> Uh-huh. >> This sounds like a bear trap.

Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off.

It's going to The next 10 years of your life are going to be pure freaking misery till the old man dies. And then when he dies, now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers. No, thank you. I don't want in this.

>> For sure. For sure. >> Yeah, I just I I There's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be.

This all sounds like misery.

And there's not enough money there to fool with. Let them have it. They're going to screw it up. It's going to be worth nothing.

>> Yeah. >> And you don't believe that. You're still You think your your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars and you're not. You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debt is what you're walking away from.

So, >> years? >> I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the dad and say, "Guys, I don't I'm I'm uncomfortable with this much debt and I'm not going to join the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no desire to get out of debt cuz it makes me uncomfortable.

And I can love you, and if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be dad and son, we can still be brothers. I can still love you. >> Yeah. >> But I do not want to personally be involved in this. It brings me great stress just thinking about it. And so if

you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this thing. I think it's got a future. But I am not going to get on this horse when you have this many bricks in the saddlebags. >> Listen, I agree with that 100%.

Clearly easier said than done. >> Sure. >> Cuz you're going to have basically your whole family on this side and you're the Lone Ranger over here. >> Yeah.

>> Well, the thing is you put her by on notice and a 100% chance they're not going to do it. >> No. >> And so you're basically saying, here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life over here and I'm going to love you. I've got family members, most of my family members don't know the stuff I teach.

>> [laughter] >> But I'm not in a I'm not in a deal with them either. And I still love them. Some of them even vote wrong. And I still love them.

But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them and it doesn't mean I have to sit around and be stressed and I'm like somehow guilted into joining something I completely disagree with. No, walk away from it, son.

You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation without any debt. >> That's probably the other part of it is there's the a lure that maybe there's like that bit maybe just possibly one day it could be good then you look back and you're like, man, I I should have stayed part of it, right? He's probably thinking about that little one one or two percent. >> Yeah.

It's like I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it doesn't bite. What did I do? Did they bite? You know, it's dumb.

You're just asking for it. Don't think they're going to change. They don't They only do what they do one thing and it's bite. So don't Don't be shocked when they bite.

It's It's a predictable environment. And he he didn't hide it. He's not sure He just said, "This is who I am." And he kind of said, "Like it or lump it." So, I'd lump it. That's what I'd do. I mean, you know, it It's just It's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when all the family ties, it feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

>> Yes.

A gravitational pull. Yes, drama has a gravitational pull. I've noticed that.

>> Drama. Drama. Family drama will suck you in

and eat your life.

Yeah. And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it, just for the fun of it. Yeah. >> Right.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Martina's in Phoenix. Hey Martina, what's up?

>> Uh hi. Um I uh 2 and 1/2 years ago, I bought a a

car and um it's a good car. It's a 2018 Corolla.

Um but I have a 16.5% interest on it.

And over half of my payments go only to

interest. Um I'm actually the co-signer on the car on the car and my mother is

the main signer on the car and I have

had job instability, housing instability over the years. And I'm just now putting my life together.

Um but currently I haven't even been able to make my February car payment, so Um I also rely on this car as a source of income. Um so I don't What are you What is your advice on the car? >> I would look for a different I would start looking for a different source of income that's not tied to this car. My guess is you're doing some of one of the delivery apps.

>> Uh yeah, I'm actually a Lyft driver. Um

I had a dead-end job. Uh I quit that,

but I got a new job that is a really

good job, but um it just it doesn't start for a couple more weeks, so things are going to >> does What does it How much are you going to be making at the new good job?

>> Um about 3 to 4,000 a year. It's >> You mean a month? >> Oh, a month, I mean, sorry. Uh, month. I

um I I am a uh swim instructor and I'm

contracting with a pool that pays very well for their lessons. >> Okay. And then, uh what's What do you owe? What's the total amount owed on this car? >> I owe 16,200 and I originally paid 18,500.

>> Have you looked to see what it's worth?

Have you looked on Kelly Blue Book? Have you looked to see what it's worth private sale? >> Uh yes, it's worth 7,500.

>> Oh boy, what happened to it?

>> She's been driving Uber.

>> Oh, [clears throat] yeah, that's true, yeah. Destroying the car. Oh gosh. Okay, well, then your only choice here I mean I mean you're going to have to pay it off cuz it's such a low value.

Um, and you're going to have to work quickly to do it. Is it your only debt?

>> Uh definitely not. I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up dropping out of school uh due to mental health issues and I have about $25,000

20 to 25,000 in personal loans and credit cards. And then I have an I don't even know how many thousands of dollars in medical debt. Uh it's I don't even like know >> So, you're going to be doing You'll be doing swim lessons at this place. How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool to make 4,000 a month?

Or is there a base pay?

>> Uh because I make uh I'm going to be making about 30 to 40 dollars an hour.

>> I still my question is >> to work you 40 hours?

>> Uh that's the plan. But yeah, that's the

problem is that it does depend on how many clients they get. If you get a lot of clients >> Yeah, I I'd be looking really deeply into that uh first off and my homework

for you leaving this call is I would have something else lined up that gives me the ability to work because you don't know how many clients they're going to send your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going to fill up and you've got to get started on this debt ASAP because here's the thing, if you default on another payment, it's really going to mess with your mom. I'm sure it already has, right?

>> What what we've got to start with, let's go back to basics.

All right? >> Okay. >> Before you do anything else with money, you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing, transportation, and utilities.

Okay? Do you pay Do you pay rent?

>> [snorts] >> I do and I live in the smallest cheapest apartment I could find here in Phoenix and I >> Perfect. So, you pay the rent.

So, you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store Stop. You pay rent, you go to the grocery store, you get the car current.

Before you do anything, all the other debts can wait till you pay rent, get the car current, get get food on the table.

Okay? [snorts] Before you do anything, you got to build a basic foundation in your life and that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

Okay? Now, once you're current on the car, then you can decide, let's reach out to the student loan people, let them know you need a hardship deferral,

and send them some of the paperwork on some of the mental illness issues you've had and just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on for a little while while they wait around. You do nothing, you quit paying them for right now.

And then, you get this book of business at the

the swim lessons full as fast as you can and Jade's right. In the meantime and even after, >> [snorts] >> I want you to work all the time.

Cuz what you need to fix your whole life right now is $16,000.

>> Yeah. >> If you had $16,000 and this car payment was gone, we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

>> Yeah, it feels like that that um car

loan is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my life and >> Agreed. Agreed. So, we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for 8 months

and smack this thing in the head.

>> Okay. >> But that's means like all you do is work, girl. You just work all the And it And it's not Uber. Freaking Uber's making the car worse. >> Mhm. >> Okay? You're putting so many miles on it. You've destroyed the value of the car. So, >> Yeah. >> But if they If you could If you can work 80 hours a week with swim lessons, just put your fins on and go.

Right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, if you can't get If you can't get a bunch of hours down there, then let's find something else that you can do that's the thing where you make the most possible money that's moral and legal.

Okay? >> Uh >> And I want you to go cray-cray for a while because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it and the dynamite is dollar bills.

>> Okay. I like that.

>> And and you just say, "Food,

shelter, lights and water, and pay off the stinking car.

And that's all I am breathing to do right now. I breathe in and out every morning. I'm tired cuz I work all the time, but by God, I'm making progress for the first time in 5 years."

>> Yes. >> You can do this. You can do it.

>> [snorts] >> What was the nature of your mental illness stuff?

>> Uh I have a uh level one high-functioning autism and that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full-time job. Um and then I also have have because of that stems to like some anxiety and depression. >> Yeah. >> Um I have uh over the last few months gotten on the right meds, gotten into the stable housing, and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable.

I'm trying to do baby step one right now and last few months >> the thing. Here's what I've worked with in 35 years of doing this.

And the thing I know is that depression is made worse when you feel trapped.

And when you're not in action mode. When

you get in action mode and get in warrior mode and get in attack mode, it helps because it releases the dopamine

and other things and it helps to melt away the depression. And the autism can the high-functioning autism can actually work on in your favor in those situations because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't

you?

>> Um yeah, I'm really good at teaching people to swim and actually the gym I'm working at is uh called Ability 360 and it's actually an adaptive gym and most of their employees have some kind of disability. >> Okay. And anything you can do to help people work out. If you could do the personal trainer thing going. Like that.

But what we're going to do is use all of this situation to your advantage.

To that that that's the thing that has been a blocker for you but you because if as you start melting away these debts, first and foremost you get this car off your back, off your mother's back, your brain is going to clear up.

The fog that you've been walking in, the stress-related anxiety >> [snorts] >> of feeling trapped in 16% and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16% too. That was dumb.

So you're not dumb but that was dumb.

So that you know, what you do is you get in attack mode, warrior girl. You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it.

Complete focus. I don't want you to pay anybody else. Just let them all go bad.

I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit.

We We that cuz you had a 16.8% car payment. We know your credit's trash already.

So, I'm not worried about that at all.

I'm worried about you.

I want you to be free.

So, you hang on and we'll get you signed up for every dollar, and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well.

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>> [music]

>> Greg is in Nashville. Hey Greg, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So um I have some whole life policies

that me and my wife got like when we were like 20. I'm 50 I'll be 55

this year. >> I'm sorry. >> And I I know I know. I've heard I've been listening to you for the last year or so. But my question is on it

should we cash surrender those uh they're each about a hundred thousand cash surrender.

I don't think we have to pay on anymore.

I think they we've had them since we were so young that uh I think they pay for themselves each year now. >> Yeah. And uh I don't know if it's worth I don't necessarily need uh I mean I could always use extra money but um I don't know if it's worth doing the cash surrender on those policies or just leave them they're small I think they're a hundred fifty thousand dollar policies or something like that when we got them originally.

Is that right? >> Yes. >> And you and you have two and you have two of them. >> like they sold you on that stuff when you were young. >> No I I want to [clears throat] make sure I understand what you've got. Stop a second. Do you have two one hundred and fifty thousand dollar policies and each of them have a hundred thousand dollar cash value in them.

>> Yes if we were to surrender them now.

>> That's what I'm asking. Okay good. Okay.

And so if you die you know they keep the

hundred thousand right?

So you have fifty thousand dollars worth of insurance in essence. Do you follow me? >> [snorts] >> Yeah that I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows and I that I didn't understand.

>> I don't understand it either cuz it's the biggest screw drop of the middle class in my life I've ever seen, but it happens all the time. So, that's how a whole life policy works. >> have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago. >> Okay, so you're covered if you die, right? You don't need them.

>> Yeah. Now, and and my question is even

about the term, too, is like, do I need to keep that up if my value or like my personal value or me and my wife's value is over that amount, should I like do I need that life insurance or is it just >> What what Okay, what life insurance is for

is to take care of her if something happens to you.

If you have $5 million in mutual funds you don't need life insurance. She's taken care of.

>> Okay. >> Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> What how life insurance is for is to take care of you if something happens to her.

And if you have a big pile of money and you're okay without her income, then

she doesn't need it. You're self-insured on all of it.

Okay? Then back to the whole life. The whole life is paying an average of about 2% in growth on that 100,000.

Had that 100,000 been in mutual funds last year, it would have made 24%

uh on average, it would have made more like 12%. So, you're losing somewhere around 10 to $20,000 a year

in growth because that's so poorly invested. Oh, and by the way, when you die, they're going to pay $150,000

out.

>> Okay. >> Not a 100 Not Not plus 100,000.

>> Do I have to pay If we do the cash surrender, do we have to pay tax on that? >> Your tax basis in a whole life policy is what you have paid into it over all these years. I suspect you've paid $100,000 into this over all these years. >> I I would assume that was the same >> your basis is probably higher. It almost always is.

Uh if it's not, it won't be by much. So, you if you have taxes, it'll be very, very, very small.

But, you're if you just say, "Here's what my premiums were over this number of years and number of months or whatever it is that you know, that 25 or 30 years you've been getting ripped off, then easily you probably paid in 100k. You're going to get your money back out. And yes, I would cash it in.

And if [snorts] What did you What do you think your net worth is?

>> Mhm.

I mean, I think it's close to six, maybe. >> Six million? >> everything. Yeah, if I were to sell everything. >> So, do you think that the current asset base would generate enough income for your wife to be okay if you died today?

>> I mean, I think so. I hope so.

>> I hope so, too.

Yeah. I think I think it'd be pretty easily. That's a >> that was kind of one of my other questions is I got this I got some industrial property that I don't necessarily need anymore that I have that I still owe about

I mean, if I were to sell it, I could cash that out for about 2 million bucks, maybe. >> Yeah. >> Uh after taxes, but I do make income on

that. >> It's up to you. What do you want your money invested in? That's an investment.

And then you look at it and say, "Is this an investment that's giving me enough yield on my money?" I mean, long-term investments you ought to be making 10 plus percent on.

Whatever it is, real estate, mutual funds, whatever. There's not really anything else that you should that That's fairly low-risk portfolio that'll do that. Mine make a lot more than that and I don't take a lot of risk.

So, but you got to look at that piece of industrial property. Is it making you a good return?

And then dump that. But, um folks, the whole life cash value policy

is the biggest rip-off in the financial

planning world.

Um I mean, it's like it's like the payday lender to the middle class.

You know, payday lender screws poor people, right? And these people screw you. And um it's a horrible rate of return.

When you die, they keep your money cuz you've been paying extra for this savings account that you don't get.

They only pay the face value when you die. It's that simple.

And so get some inexpensive term insurance while you need insurance. This

guy doesn't even need that anymore, probably. Um and

put your money your investment money in good investments that go up and they don't keep it when you die.

And and then you're not building a building in the skyline for somebody else. Where do you think those life insurance buildings came from?

They didn't come from Santa Claus, I know that. It's the same place those banks came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. It came from them screwing you with credit cards all these years and you're just smiling and going, "I got airline miles." And you're just getting screwed over and over and over again. And it's just, you know, that's how this stuff happens. It's called a transfer of wealth from you to them.

Because they're screwing you. And so you just [clears throat] learn about these things and you go, "Never again."

Changes everything. James is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi James, how are you?

>> Doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, um I have a my youngest sister she and her ex-boyfriend

inherited a quarter million dollars about three to four years ago.

Um he has since passed from cancer.

And he um at the time I was going

through a messy divorce and he gave me $6,000 to pay for my lawyer so I can take care of my divorce. I was going through a rough time Um as a gift.

And since then you know he's passed on like I said and she has blown through all

that money.

In the meantime and and was back to square one again. >> Wow. >> And and she has not come out and said directly to me but I heard it through my

other sister that she keeps asking you know saying hey he needs to pay me back that $6,000 you know that's that was my money and >> So she's saying that he the boyfriend got the money from her.

And lent it to you. >> No no no it was his his parents it was

his inheritance from his parents.

>> Okay. >> Yeah and and I can afford to pay it back now I've been in I've been in a good spot in my life and I can afford to pay it back. I just don't feel like I have to I've helped her out with bills and stuff now that she's moved and have a lot of money like the you know the occasional electric bill things like that where she's you know called me up and said hey can you know I've done stuff like that for her. >> Y'all are a hot mess aren't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah right. >> [laughter] >> Are you are you afraid that she's going to do you're just afraid you're like why do I give her another $6,000 to be irresponsible with is what you're saying.

>> That then you know she has three kids with him they're older they're 17 18 in that range but >> Well I mean there's James there's two options okay. The third option is not keep whining about it okay. I would either call her and say your boyfriend gave me this money it's a gift I'm not going to pay it back or I'd write her a check.

But third option I'm going to keep whining about this and y'all keep this family drama going on on on and who said what and who told George this and good lord for $6,000 straighten it up man.

>> [music]

[music]

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Leland is in Oklahoma City. Hi Leland,

how are you? >> All right, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so, I've got a question. I'm 22 years old, and I started a business last year, and it's kind of just went backwards on me where I'm to the point now where I've got a piece of equipment that I'm sitting here staring down the barrel of again, where they're basically probably going to come repossess it the first of April.

>> So, you started what kind of business then? >> Um, custom dry fertilizer spreading business.

>> Okay.

And so, you bought a What What is the equipment?

>> It's a applicator that applies dry fertilizer on fields.

>> Mhm. And what How much do you owe on it?

>> Uh, 178,000.

My annual payment on it's 40 $40,000 a

year. And everything's just went backwards since I bought >> I'm confused why they would loan a 22-year-old $178,000 on a piece of farm equipment.

>> Well, because I had a way to get into the business, and then since then it's just went backwards since then.

I had the money for a down payment, put the money down. >> How much did you put down?

>> 12,000.

>> But still, I mean, you were not even Were you in the business already?

>> I've been in the agriculture business all my life. >> You're 22.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Okay.

All my life is not long. Um >> Well, I've been been doing it ever since I could >> I know, honey, but I'm talking about what loans you $178,000

with a $12,000 down payment when you're 22 years old. There's nothing There's nothing that says this deal should have happened.

>> Leland, you can't turn around and sell it? >> I've been trying to. I've tried selling it with an auction company, but they wanted me to put a $100,000 up front before they'd even sell it.

>> Yeah. And so, you had grand plans of spreading

a lot of fertilizer. What happened?

>> Um, I I my name out within a 100-mi radius, and the farm economy the way it is, fertilizer prices is high and there's not a lot of people doing dry.

They're all going different routes.

>> I'm sorry, hon. This is scary, isn't it?

>> It Yeah, it definitely is.

>> Yeah. >> It's definitely scary to be sitting here in this position and it's just been haunting me ever since.

>> I guess.

All right. Well, I went broke when I was 28 and I had more zeros on the end of my stupidity than you do. So, I I got you beat. Um >> Right. >> Cuz this was straight-up stupid. And the guy that loans you the money deserves to lose $100,000. Whatever company did this. What's the name of the company?

>> I can't remember off the top of my head and I >> You owe them $178,000 and you don't know the name of the company?

>> Oh, I do. It's on a piece of paper at my house and I don't have that information in front of me. >> You bought it at a dealership, didn't you? What brand is it? >> John Deere. >> Yeah. I guess so.

So, you don't know John Deere Incorporated the money.

>> No. No, absolutely not.

>> Okay. All right. >> And And my plan was, you know, do 10,000 acres a year. That can be done extremely

easy and I found out the hard way that it has not been near as easy as what everybody said it was supposed to be. >> So, the moral of the story is we don't borrow money to start businesses because things never turn out exactly the way they're supposed to in business.

That's the rule of business and so that's the a lesson that sadly you have learned. The only good news is you learned it at 22. I learned it at 28.

So, I had the rest of my life to not do that stupid mistake again and you have the rest of your life to not do the stupid mistake again. So, the next time you have a bright idea and someone wants to loan you money to do your bright idea, you tell them no, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay, good. All right. So, we've learned our lesson. Now, walk through it. I'm so sorry, hon. Um So, I do not know a way around this

because I don't know your world.

I'm still just sitting here aghast that someone >> loaned you that money? >> loaned you $178,000 to spread fertilizer. That There's just so many fertilizer jokes that I could weave into this, but um >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it just kind of come They They just They just roll off the mind right now. But, [laughter] anyway, the um the spreading of fertilizer is pretty thick here. But, the um uh >> [sighs] >> So, let me tell you what I think is going to happen and how you can handle it.

Okay? I think you're going to get repoed at the first of the month.

I don't know how to tell you to stop that with anything that's reasonable.

One thing you could stop it with is a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, but that's a or a Chapter 11 bankruptcy even in this case, but that's a pipe dream because the business idea is dead and there's no way to revive the cash flow.

If you could revive the cash flow starting 2 months from now, you know, we could delay the repo and put it in by putting it into a bankruptcy, but I wouldn't do that here because I think this business idea is just a swing and a miss.

>> Right. >> So, I think they're taking it at the first of the month. Okay, then what's going to happen is they're going to sell the piece of equipment for X number of dollars at that same auction and then they're going to come knocking on your door for the difference. It's called the deficit.

Okay? So, let's play pretend. Let's play pretend and there's $178,000 owed and they sell the piece of equipment for $100,000 and they come see you for $78,000. You're 22 years old. You don't have any money.

>> Right. >> That's where we're going to be. It's probably going to be a year before they knock on your door wanting the difference.

It's not going to be soon.

Okay? And when they do, uh normally what happens is they push you and push you and the person files bankruptcy and they get nothing on their 78,000 in our example

story here. Okay? However, you have a year to prepare for this battle and were you to save up during this coming year by working your little tail end off uh $25,000 and you offer them $25,000 as

settlement in full on the deficit they'll probably take it cuz they're used to getting nothing.

>> Right. >> We settle deficits on car repossessions at 20 25 cents on the dollar every day.

I've not done it much on farm equipment so I don't know that world but it's probably pretty close.

And the reason we're able to settle those deficits at that is because they very seldom collect anything. Usually the person files Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they get a big goose egg, zero.

Especially when you look at look at it through the creditor's eyes. Not to put you down, Leland, but looking at it from the banker's perspective, I'm trying to get money out of a 23-year-old who's broke. The likelihood of that's close to zero.

>> Right. >> So if he stands up and offers me 25K, I

do a little happy dance and take it if I'm the banker.

You follow me? >> Okay. >> So what are you going to do for a living now that your life is starting over, sir?

>> I mean, I'm pretty much self-employed and don't have I mean, I don't have a college degree and >> What are you going to do for a living, sir?

>> I'm going to farm. >> You're going to farm? Whose farm are you farming?

>> Uh some some friends.

>> You're going to work on a farm. >> farm. Yes. >> For someone else.

>> Yes. >> And what does that pay?

>> It just depends. Sometimes $25 an hour depending on who you're working for.

>> Okay. All right. And then ask yourself, what do I want to be doing when I'm 32 that I'm a millionaire? And it's not $25 an hour work. I'll help you with that.

>> Yes, sir. >> And it's not going into debt $178,000 to spread manure.

Oh, no, this was dry. I'm sorry.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. But anyway, you see the point.

Yeah, so you got to figure out what am I going to do next? Cuz one of the things that I discovered when I went bankrupt because I couldn't turn it around the way I think you actually can turn it around if you'll work like a crazy person and stack cash and keep your living expenses very, very low. I think you can scratch up some cash and settle the deficit when they do come after you one or two years from now.

Don't call them. Wait for them to call you. And in the meantime, build a war chest.

And then settle it in full in writing settlement.

And I think you can get through this. I really do. And then you can just look at this in the rearview mirror as that dumb thing I did when I was 22.

I I can look at my life in the rearview mirror that whole series of dumb things I did when I was 28. >> Yep. >> You can You guys paid off um you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars because of dumb things you did in your early 20s. >> of stupid things.

>> Yeah. And so, it's I don't know. You're talking to the choir here, okay? Singing in the choir.

So, but I do want you to develop a future and a plan that doesn't involve a Hail Mary.

Don't do that again.

Learn Learn from the mistake.

And we'll walk with you. Anything you need, Leland, you call me. And if you want to save up that money and when they mess with you, you call me. I'll I'll walk you through it. I'll show you how to negotiate with them.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on show, where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Diane is in

Chicago. Hey Diane, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, yeah, same here. Well, I thank you for taking my call. Um I currently have um

a quite a bit of money in the bank, I feel. Um and I am thinking about my retirement and I'd like to know how

best I should invest it in order to make it last through retirement.

>> How much is it?

>> Um I so I have 600,000 in the bank.

>> Wow. >> Um I'm debt debt free.

Um I have two there's 250,000 in retirement. Um which I don't know what to do with cuz it's been with a cable service since um we had our own our own business. Um and it's just been sitting there. I don't know what to do with it.

I know nothing about it. I wasn't actively involved in our business. Um I stayed home and took care of our kids, uh raised them, and um have decided to go into my own franchise. And so I know that I will be using some of that money for the franchise.

a bank is the best place for it.

>> Yeah, how how old are you?

>> Uh 57. >> Okay. And you said you were not involved in the business and now you're opening a franchise with the business money.

>> Yes, uh-huh. Yeah. >> Okay. Um so your husband was running the business? >> Yes, uh-huh. >> Where is he?

>> Um he's he's at home. Um he is supporting me on my business. He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own.

Um but everything's been in my name.

Um the the bank accounts, the houses, the business. We sold the business last year and then um and >> the 600 grand came from?

>> Yeah, we sold it for 1.2 million, but we

were given a large lump sum and we paid off some unexpected unknown debts. >> Like >> Um okay, unknown?

You're being cryptic. >> I didn't I I didn't know about it.

>> You're going to have to tell You're going to have to tell us what's going on cuz you're not There's no making sense. >> My home My home My husband has a gambling debt.

I don't know what he He gets He gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects and he uses that for extra curricular activities. I have no idea what he uses it for. >> You don't know how much he's >> I Oh, no, I know how much he gets. He gets $3,600 a month and that's his play money. >> Okay. >> Um I get $700 [clears throat] a month. >> basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt and that's why everything's in your name.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right, that makes sense. >> So, who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

>> Um we have $2,500 coming in from a rental that um that person bought the

business and he has the option to buy by the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right.

Um and then he also gets social security of $1,100 a month. >> Okay. So, you At this point, you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband. >> No, I'm not, but I have no control over that.

>> What's the What's the plan moving forward? Does he know that Does he know that he has a problem? >> a lot of control. You got everything in your name.

>> Right, everything's in my name. Um he knows that I'm opening up this franchise, which will be um approximately $125,000 to open a franchise on my own. >> Mhm. >> Um >> [snorts] >> He He is just kind of like leaving letting me leave the money in the bank, but I feel like it's not getting the best return.

So, I'm looking for ways that I can invest it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, there's a lot There's so much going on. Here's the problem. It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom.

>> Right. >> And that that's kind of what we're hearing here. But, you you feel like you've got him uh his his gambling addiction under control and I question >> No. >> because I've seen I've seen so many Well, I mean, but but uh and so, as long as you keep the stuff in your name, uh I guess you have the option of divorce at some point if he runs up you know, let's say he runs up a million-dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point.

So, anyway, that's what you're facing. So, yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a SmartVester Pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds. If it averages 10% or more, it will double every 7 years. So, you basically got a million dollars in 7 years.

years old, you'd have 2 million dollars.

At 7 more years, at 71 years old, you'd have 4 million dollars. So, you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this uh franchise. If this franchise doesn't go belly up on you. And um so, and it

sounds like you've never run a business before. He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise. So, that's a little concerning.

>> Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or is it something totally different? >> No, it's something that I'm passionate about. Something that is for me, not for him. >> Yeah.

>> I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this and I'm expecting for it to be very successful and I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me. So, that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful. I'm confident that it will be. >> Yeah.

So, there there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently. So, yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it, but I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision, if it's a bad decision, and I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions with $600,

going over in a regular low-risk investment in comparison to gambling and in comparison to franchise purchasing.

Uh and so, let's put some money over there. So, if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work um

then uh you know, you you've at least got that money working for you. So, yeah, you need to sit down and do that and you need to put a real limit on

the amount of dollars you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back instead of you putting money into it. >> Absolutely. >> And cuz if you don't, with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming at this with and you're positive uh how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand in the hole on this thing.

And I If you want to put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it. Go live your dream. I ain't got a problem with that. Uh what I've got a problem with is these absolute statements and I've been in business my whole life and there is no absolute 100% people are behind me. I

feel positive. It's an area I'm passionate about. None of that may matter. You may still lose all that money. So, don't don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity. If you want to put 125 in it, do it and then I'd put the rest of it over in with a Smart Investor Pro and some good mutual funds and to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk and separate these things.

>> Yeah, I'm I've just I'm going to call it like I heard it. It almost sounded like this business for you was some sort of retaliatory thing against him to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here. And my thing I would just say draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long you're going to endure this into what point before you go and do the things that you need to do and make that separation so that he can get the help that he needs because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer.

It It feels like it's breeding resentment from you. >> Oh, for sure.

>> Absolutely.

>> [music]

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Nicole is in Atlanta. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Good. What's up?

>> Um so, me and my husband live in an apartment, and we're trying to decide if we should move to a bigger space because we do have two three kids. So, two are 5-year-old twins, and then a 2-year-old

baby girl. So, um last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we have $62,000 worth of student loan debt left. Um and we were

going to use We've been using mostly like our overage, which is about $1,100

um that we have a month to put towards our debt. And then we also pretty much use like our tax break or whenever that comes in to throw a lot at it just in and out. So, we're trying to see We want them to, you know, have a space to have a yard and like just more space. It's a little bit cramped up um with all five of us here.

So, we were just wondering if we should stay or if we should kind of go.

>> What are you guys earning between the two of you right now? >> Um gross would be 103,000.

>> Okay. The hard part with this is what you said. If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how much margin you have to throw at this debt, which means there's going to be a longer period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long term that's going to affect your ability to build wealth.

For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go whole whole heartedly into the home buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you. >> You're not even talking about home ownership. You're talking about renting a nicer place, aren't you?

>> Yeah, yeah. We were actually like looking to our rent is 2,200. And so we were wanting to rent like thinking about 2,500 but that doesn't include like gas and utility. I'm sorry, you know >> Understood.

>> Yeah, so we just don't know if that's going to be leaving us with 400 instead of 1,000. >> How much How much debt have you paid off so far?

>> Uh 36,000 with the vehicle.

>> And how long did that take?

>> Uh that took us 2 years.

>> Okay. Making $130,000.

>> Uh $103,000 a year.

>> $103,000. Yeah. So you guys suck at this so far, Nicole.

>> We suck? >> Yeah. $18,000 making 100 grand per year

is not enough debt reduction.

You guys are >> Yeah. >> still out. You're still going out to eat. You're still going on vacation.

You're still spending money. You're still not on a tight budget. And and so you made a little progress but you should have made a lot more progress. If you told me you paid off 36,000 in 6 months, see then I can take that number and go, "Oh, wait a minute. You could clear up the rest of this in a year if you suck it up and get it done." But at the rate you're going it's going to take you 10 years.

>> Yeah. >> That ain't cool. >> That's true. >> That ain't cool. >> Right. That's how we feel. >> Yeah. We got to We got to not get stuck in that. And if you feel like you're never going to get out, then you just say, "Well, the heck with it. I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids a yard." And you know, you give up You're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress.

And so I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan if I'm you.

I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, "Look, we did a little bit here and we didn't do a bad thing but we really weren't It wasn't like we were spectacular. We kind of got the flu here

and we need to really light this thing up instead of putting $1,500 a month on it. We need to take extra jobs. We need to sell stuff. We need to not go out to eat. We need to tight tight tight tight tighten down this budget. Not go the other way. And let's get this thing to 3,000 or 4,000 dollars a month going at the 6,000 60,000 that's left. And then we can get out in about 14 or 15 months.

Then we talk about building emergency fund. And then we talk about buying a house.

Not renting one. >> Yeah, I I >> But what you're talking about is a five or a six-year plan and you won't even make it. >> I agree. I I If you can have these kids

they're young right now, right? They're five years old, three years old.

Now's the time that they can be squished and they don't know the difference. You know the difference, but they don't know the difference. And I for one would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much money as possible so that you can pay off this debt. >> if they're squished and their life is miserable for one year, >> They'll be fine. >> that's better than them being not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life.

>> You want to know what though? I I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in and I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids. >> Yeah, nobody told us we were >> Nobody told us we were squished.

>> No. >> We were, but nobody told us we were. It was a thousand square foot brick ranch.

Hello. And so, I mean, we went out in the backyard and played. They'd say go play in the traffic. >> had go outside. You did have to go out.

Yeah, just [laughter] play outside all the time. >> You tell your kids to go play in the traffic. You don't tell your kids >> I don't tell them to play in traffic. I just tell [laughter] them to >> My mother would say that all the time.

Go play in the traffic. Get out of my Get out from under my feet. >> [laughter] >> Yes. >> That's what caused me to be the way I am. Dustin is in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Hey, Dustin, what's up?

>> Hi. Um so, I'll get right into it. Uh my dad incurred about $30,000 in debt. Uh he has no retirement. His only income is social security. Uh he now has dementia and my brother and I are left uh kind of trying to manage this for him.

Um he's currently being sued on one credit card for 8,000 and he owes 13,000

on another credit card.

And I guess my question is should we try and settle this with them and my brother and I would have >> No. No assets.

>> Well, how would he settle it?

>> I essentially my brother and I would have to help him out in that >> Why? Why would you do that? Just tell them tell the credit card company to bite me. >> He has no money. He has nothing to give.

>> They can't get anything. He doesn't have anything, right?

>> Uh yeah, he has nothing. It's only social security and I don't believe they can touch that. >> touch that. Does he own a home?

>> No. >> No. He does not have any money in his bank account except the social security.

>> Yeah, it would it would just be for me and my brother to have one less thing to uh to have to deal with. >> I wouldn't deal with it at all. I got one less thing. I'm just going to show them the smallest finger on my left hand and say that's all you get. >> Nothing. >> Are they calling you?

>> Uh no. No.

>> I'd just tell them to you know, tell them jump in a creek. You shouldn't have loan loan money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

>> Okay. And should I uh should I offer to have him sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorney fees or just >> Who cares? They're not going to get any of it. What I would do is call them up and say if you want to talk to him, call them up and just say this. Say, I want you make a note in the file. He has advanced dementia and zero assets.

We're not going to have any conversations with you. You might as well write this off cuz you're not getting a dime.

>> Okay. >> And I just real simple. I mean, let's pretend he had passed away.

Okay? I just send them a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let them know and and let them know that there's not a there's no estate. And then then after that I'm not having any more discussions with these people. They're morons.

>> Yeah, none of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

>> Uh no, yeah, I'm I'm not worried about that. I mean, it's his debt and I Yeah, I'm not I'm not responsible for that.

So. >> It's just sad and it's sad it's one of those part It's a sad uh sub-chapter, sub-paragraph in this

overall sad story that you're dealing with, but what I would do is just say I'm not going to worry about it at all.

And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could, but I'm not going to have lengthy conversations. I'm not going to have multiple conversations and I'm not going to give him a dime.

There's no point in it. They shouldn't have loaned him the money.

>> Yeah. I agree. >> And it's it's just sad. I'm sorry for you having to face that and um you know, I've run into situations like that in my life, Dustin. How old are you?

>> Uh 44. >> Yeah, I've run into situations like that and what I do is I say, "Okay,

I got to help my dad out." >> [sighs] >> Uh in your case, this is what you're saying. "I got to help my dad out and this is a sad situation. And so, what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this.

>> Right. >> I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way.

It's like, you know, I I I was working for a guy one time. He goes, "I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own in St.

Thomas." >> Come on now. >> So, I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's cuz they don't have any money. I don't want to be one of them.

>> That's right. >> And so, you look at this and you go, "He's got no assets. He's got dementia and the only positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for him." Other than that, this guy's a pauper, we would use old language, but it's very sad. And so, take it as a lesson to go, "I'm never You know, and then you teach your kids.

Your grandpa ended up that way.

We're shifting it. >> I know that's right. >> So, take a lesson from it, at least. At least get that out of it. But, no, I wouldn't give those guys any money. Not a dime.

>> [music]

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>> Well, we love debt-free screams. We love them in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on our debt-free stage. We super love them when it's one of our Ramsey team members. TJ is with us here with his wife Alice. Uh, he's a project manager on the every dollar team. Been with us about a year and uh they get to come in here and do their debt-free scream.

Welcome, guys. >> Thank you. >> Good to have you. How nerve-wracking is this?

>> It's we're here.

>> [laughter] >> And it's finally real.

>> I love it. How much have you paid off?

>> $165,000.

>> I love it. How long did that take?

>> 15 months. >> Awesome. >> Okay, and you've been here about a year, so you started on it before. How long y'all been married? >> 1 year and 8 months.

>> Oh, wow. So, moving here, getting married, starting the debt-free journey, all in the last 2 years. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Wow. Where'd you move from?

>> Central Illinois, but we're originally from the Chicago land. >> Okay. All right. So, you got married and did you come to Nashville to take the Ramsey job?

>> Yep. >> Okay. The project manager at every dollar. Well, that's awesome.

So, you people out there that are using every dollar to get out of debt, it's all TJ's fault. >> [laughter] >> All the things that are awesome about it, it's all TJ's fault. He's one of the many uh talented folks we got on that team. Really really working on this.

>> Yeah, it was 107 in student loans and then 58 in new cars. This was before

learning about Ramsey. >> All right. Got you. Okay. Very cool.

How's it feel to be free?

>> Liberating. >> [laughter] >> Liberating, peaceful. It's the best sleep we've ever got Oh, I've gotten in the past 2 years was uh October 30th when we made our final payment. >> Mhm.

>> Uh filled in the rest of that I saw the thermometer that we had up there. Uh filling that in, calling those that supported us all along the way and just being able to cheer it. >> So, how did the order of events go about learning about >> Yeah.

>> So, we got the Total Money Makeover as a

wedding gift. >> Okay. >> It was not on our registry. We were not >> [laughter] >> familiar. >> It seldom is.

>> So, TJ read the book about three times and then he started on this journey to try to coerce me into reading it. Um he

was saying that it's Bible-based, which really resonated with me. And then he was like, "Dave's really funny." Which I was like, "Hmm, let me see for myself."

And >> [laughter] >> I loved it. We had a conversation where

we had combined our finances after getting married and realized that we had $2,800 of minimum payments and we didn't

feel like we were able to really live, even though we had two pretty good incomes.

>> Very cool. What do you do? >> I'm a nurse. >> Awesome.

Very cool. Good. Yeah, that is two good incomes. Excellent.

Well done, y'all. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so you're you get married, you get the book, and you get on the same page, and then how does he end up with this job? That's weird.

>> Well, it all came down to we were Dave-ish uh around Thanksgiving. I got to talk to my Uncle Matt and Aunt Gina, who were the ones that gifted us Total Money Makeover. And we're like, "We're doing it. We're doing it." And they were like, "Are you really doing it?" >> Ooh.

>> And we were like, "Well, we have 20,000 in savings while we're trying to pay down the debts. We, you know, we paid for our uh wedding and anything that was a gift, we just threw at debt." And I'm like, "That felt good. Let's keep going." And they were like, "Hey, check out their website for additional resources." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, I started looking around. I saw there was a careers page.

I'm like, "All right, let's see what this is all about." Saw some jobs.

>> [laughter] >> Previous role I applied for hundreds of jobs and then I eventually got my one. I was like, "All right, Lord, if you open up the open up the doors for me, I'm going to continue to walk through them." And however, that was a 12 steps to get here. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Hiring process.

>> Yeah. >> Uh but, you know, it really felt like God called me here. Uh able to serve, be able to be here and help spread hope to other the >> It's really awesome.

>> We did. >> We did. We bought a king-size bed.

>> Yeah. >> And adjustable bases. Best sleep of my life. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I love that. That's exactly right.

>> I thought he was sleeping better because he got out of bed. >> too, but they got a new mattress. >> Because he got a new mattress is what it was. That's great. >> That's excellent. >> Very cool. All right. So, what advice do you have? What do you tell people when they say, "How did you do that? How do you pay off 165,000

newly married in 15 months?" That's over $10,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Uh God's blessings for sure. Um everything kind of had to come right together. We wrote down uh October of uh

2025 and I when I first when we were writing that I'm like, "Uh everything is going to have to come up right in order for this to happen." And God's blessings allowed us to be there. Uh new opportunity, she was travel nursing.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Good money, which is where a lot of all of that came from. >> Yeah, that's good money.

>> And uh it took a lot of sacrifice. I mean, I moved I had to move down here and I was here for about a month and a half before she got to come down after I wrapped up my time. >> sacrifice. >> So, she was doing some roles that were about an hour and a half away.

So, a lot long commute. And uh I appreciate all the sacrifices that we were able to make, both of us taking up multiple jobs to be able to get there. Uh and just want to be an inspiration to others.

>> So, uh working here can be a mixed blessing because everybody's like everybody's doing this. You know, it's like the positive peer pressure, but it's also pressure.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, was it helpful to have your team you know, all up in your business or uh you know, your buddies cheering you on or uh was was that a back I mean, they're all standing out there. You better be nice, but um I mean, was is it helpful to be in this kind of environment when you're doing it or not? It can I think it could work against you. >> Yeah. Um at least I can tell my side.

It's been extremely It's a support system. Um if we didn't believe in it, then yes, I I think it'd be a whole lot of different pressure that we're like, "Oh, I don't really want to do it." But we believed in it. We knew that it was going to be good for us, changing our family tree, going through Financial Peace University, really seeing the whole scope of where your life can change, and being able to use every dollar to keep us on track and on budget.

>> Um a lot of it was that.

>> It was a blessing for us because as far as our friends and family, it's still kind of a mixed bag as far as, you know, their thoughts on our journey. So, we committed to it. It was amazing for T.J. to be working in an environment where we got that support.

Um so, it ultimately was such a blessing. >> Yeah. Cool. Very cool.

>> Any setbacks on the way?

>> Just right after we got out of it.

Um I had to uh We had some I had some health stuff that came up. So, we got debt-free, and then we were able to cash flow 10K in medical expenses and >> Wow. >> Ooh. >> Now, we're tackling on taxes, but we're able to cash flow it all. Um car repairs and all that we're able to cash flow it as we went. So.

Uh >> Well, it's about time to celebrate with some of it. Oh my gosh. >> [laughter] >> That's a G. Indeed. >> Enough already. So, you're working on an Every Dollar you're project manager on Every Dollar.

The journey and now the freedom has to

affect how you look at all those projects.

>> Yeah. Um just >> I mean, you're not agnostic anymore.

This You're in it.

>> It's It's being able to say, "Okay, this I I'm I'm product of this. You know, I believed in it." >> Yeah. >> It makes it that much more motivating to be able to come in every single day, come in and work knowing that I made a difference not only for my myself, but for everyone outside of these walls, which I know we preach very dearly here.

>> Mhm. >> Um it's truly inspiring. It's just so nice to be a part of it, something that you believe in, and you're able to say, "I'm I'm affecting this. I'm changing this. I'm trying to make this better. I'm trying to make it easier to work the Ramsey plan." >> Yeah. >> And that's all the motivation you need.

>> Amen. Amen. I'm proud of y'all.

>> Yeah, excellent job. >> and the team's out here gathered, and none of them are working. They're all here to cheer you on. [laughter] And this is great. I'm glad they're here to cheer you on. It's very very cool. Congratulations you two. >> Thank you. >> Very well done. All right, we don't ask when our team members are on, we don't ask their household income because all their friends are standing around and that's not fair. But they did pay off $165,000

in 15 months. Count it down. Let's hear

a debt-free scream.

>> 3 2 1 >> WE'RE DEBT-FREE! >> [screaming]

[applause] >> THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. >> Love it. >> Man.

You know, I can't imagine >> [applause] >> coming to work in a place like this right after I got married. The place I went to work right after I got married was bad.

>> [laughter] >> I mean, lucky for them it's great cuz now you're submerged by everything you need to get off on the right foot financially. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like you don't have a choice around here. >> Yeah.

>> I mean, well, you're on stage this morning staff meeting doing walk the talk. >> Oh, yeah. >> We have a whole system here where we're not being hypocrites. The people that work here need to be doing the stuff we teach, you know?

Hello. >> 100% 100% >> The non-hypocrite system. Walk the talk, [laughter] right? >> On your honor.

>> Yeah, and these guys they they did it.

I'm so proud of them. $165,000

>> They were smoking it. 15 months.

>> Man, let's get it done. Get her done.

>> Logan's in Indiana. Hey Logan, what's up?

I meant to try again. Hey Logan, what's up?

>> Hey sir, how are you doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, how can I help?

>> Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into um debt to

start a cattle operation.

>> Mhm. Okay. All right. How long you've been listening to this show, Logan?

>> Uh about 6 months or so.

>> Okay. And so you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go in debt and and to how to get out of debt, right?

>> Yeah, it is. I I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly it can be paid off. So, I wanted to >> Yeah. >> see if that would work in this case.

>> No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the owner gets the prop The former owner gets the profit until not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank. That's different. Um >> Okay. >> So, I don't borrow money, Logan. And I've done that for 40 years.

And I run a business and I've grown the business with the profits in the business without borrowing money to do it. And because the simple fact is this, business has risk.

When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk a hundredfold.

A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt. And so, um what do What's your household income, sir?

>> About 120 to 130,000 currently depending on overtime. >> Good for you. So, if you took out a $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

>> Um running the numbers that we ran given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it doesn't just completely tank out, within about 2 years um to

three at the most by your third your third third round of calves um everything should be completely paid off and it would be profit after that minus operational costs. >> So, what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking 4 years and making the thing cash flow which way to the exact same position?

Buy buy buy a third of what you're talking about buying with cash.

>> Okay. >> And make that third buy the next third

and buy the next third. You don't need any money out of this cattle operation.

You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it. Agreed?

>> Correct. Yeah, that would be the plan. >> Because you have a good income at home already. And so um I think you would it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your cash your own cash.

And that's what we've done here.

Although we weren't able to do it as fast as you're going to be able to do it. And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all over the freaking place as you know.

I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that. It's scary.

So, there's times the market has tanked.

And uh it's an agricultural product. And so it's a it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses.

So, you've got to be very very careful.

But if I were in your shoes, I would get I would I would scratch the itch. But I would save up 50 75,000 dollars in cash by living on nothing. And I'd dump every bit of that in there. And then I'd take every dime of profit and use it to grow the business. And I think you'll be there 1 year later than you would have been there if you borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way nothing ever goes perfect.

>> That is That is That's true.

>> Yeah. I mean, you get the cows get sick.

There's all kinds of problems. There's you know, the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and you know, upset the beef market. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how all this works, but there's always something, right?

>> Correct. >> So, um yeah, it it I I would rather you do that and and be tired and um stretched on your cash and then no one's going to take it away from you. You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race.

I just crossed metaphors, but yeah.

>> That's all right.

That No, that that makes sense. Um a a follow-up to that would be is if you were to cash flow this, what's your opinion on um you know, like leasing pasture and stuff? Do you look at that as debt or is that looked at a little bit different? Like >> No, that's just over here. That's like That's just like lease That's like leasing a building to run your business in. Instead Instead of buying the building.

That's There's no problem. I would rent the pasture for sure.

>> Okay. >> Cuz Now we've got two businesses. If you If you buy the pasture, you've got two businesses. You've got the real estate business and the farming business.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, it's like It's like me. I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet. Like you know, 600,000 600 million dollar property, right? So, I've got this piece of real estate. I'm in the real estate business. And I've got a business that's inside the real estate.

But I've got two things going on here.

Very substantial things.

Ramsey and a big old piece of real estate. Big campus here, right? I mean, I'm in the office building business, period. No No matter how you cut it. And and you can set You can mix those two together and act like, "Well, they're all one thing." No, they're really not. It's I got a big old office building. I could have leased it. There's six of them right down the road down here. I could have leased another one and not put you know, not put not put half a billion dollars into this thing, right?

So, that that's That's the thing. So, just you no need to get in the real estate business. I just lease it.

If you're going to start a restaurant, for God's sake, don't buy the building.

>> Oh gosh, please no.

>> Just just rent the building. You get started, you know? You start a daycare, rent the building. And and just don't don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time and you've got a predictable environment. But you don't have that there until then, so wow.

>> Cool. I think we won that one.

>> Yeah, I think I think he's going to take your advice. >> I think he's going to do it. >> I believe in him. >> I like it. I like Logan. All right, that's kind of nice. I'm I like getting one occasionally. [laughter] Leona's in Cincinnati. Hi Leona, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Jade. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so, I have a quick question. So, my

husband and I, we have a 1-year-old and we recently moved, well, not recently, last year. We had switched from our apartment cuz of noisy neighbors and went to a townhome.

Um the townhome, when we moved in there, it was not great and we sent several

emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having and, you know, mold and spiders everywhere and centipedes and all these things happening in there. Um

we told them that we are not happy with the townhome and they said they'll fix things. Months went by, they weren't fixing anything. So, we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job and I reached out to an attorney through there and they said, "Well, they failed to provide livable living conditions. I have pictures of everything.

And you don't owe anything. So, you can break your lease and you'll be fine." >> Oh [laughter] boy.

That was not good advice.

>> Oh.

Yeah, you got what you paid for with that lawyer. >> Did you send them Did you send I mean, did you get any Did you send them anything in writing? Did you do any Did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

>> Oh, no. So, we definitely sent pictures.

Uh you mean to the leasing office or to the LegalShield? >> Uh both. Did you send them Did you let them know that you were seeking legal legal counsel on behalf Like did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on?

>> Yeah, so I called the leasing office. My husband went up there cuz they weren't responding to my emails. My husband went up there up there.

Um he talked to them. They said, "Okay, we'll take care of things." Um a couple months went by nothing was happening.

The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher. >> Okay, so stop. I was just going to I was just going to stop. I mean, it's You just moved out when you got mad cuz you called LegalShield and they said uh you could.

>> Yeah, well, we weren't we weren't planning to break our lease cuz we did that before to move to where we are now and that was not fun. So, we said we're not going to break the lease unless we get some kind of advice that we can.

So, after we sit called the head office,

the property management company or whoever, uh we talked to the district manager. They said, "Okay, definitely send us emails and everything, all the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything." Did that, no response. Called again, left the voice message, not getting any response.

So, the LegalShield attorney said um they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they failed to provide whatever suitable living conditions for us and our child.

So, we don't owe them anything.

So, because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything. We asked them multiple times, "Are you going to send anybody >> this is on LegalShield. LegalShield needs to defend you for free.

>> Mhm. Yeah, they told they told me >> You're going to get You're going to get sued, I can promise you.

I promise you 100% this landlord's coming after you. You don't have the option of just walking away because I I some bugs. Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer you, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service, it's not how it works.

I mean, so now LegalShields bit this off, they need to pick it up and close the deal. And and they're not going to be able to. This is going to be horrible for you.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Nicole is in Detroit. Hi Nicole, how are you? >> Hi Dave, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Um so I was calling.

Um so basically, my husband has refused

to like give me financial visibility into his life. Um he has put his foot down, like, you

know, literally, like, "No, you cannot see anything that I have going on financially. I can tell you about it." >> Ooh. >> Um but you you can't know anything

that's going on. Um and the reason why it happened is we were in a position to buy a home, and the the housing counselor and the lender that we were working with asked about our finances, and I found myself saying, "Well, I don't I don't know. Uh let me hold on. Let me hold on. Let me ask my husband." >> Mhm. >> And then I after our call was done, I told my husband, I said, "You know, I shouldn't have to say hold on to anyone, let me ask my husband.

>> Right. >> know what's going on, you know, in that

part of your life. It's like we're roommates. It's like you you're over here all the time. >> that go? He said He he said I'm a grown man.

I do not have to show you anything financially in my life. I said but you're a deacon. You're a deacon and

you're my husband. I said we're supposed to be one. That you saying that makes us not be one. >> And what did he say? >> me showing you my money had nothing to do with us being one. My husband is a deacon. >> Yeah, but this is this is >> So where are we now?

>> So I moved out.

We we were in a rental.

When I when we came together 8 years ago it was it was his house. So I moved in with him. We've been there for 8 years.

We were trying to work on getting our own house and because all this I mean it it's so bad they it it's so bad >> But what else is going on? Cuz this was explosive. So what else is going on? I

have a feeling that it wasn't This is not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

>> Yeah, no. So he has a 21 year old son

and his son is very disrespectful.

He basically it's basically like he runs the house. And if I try to say anything to him about his son, what his son does, if I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around, he never believes me.

>> Uh-huh. Well I >> So it's just it's it's just bubbling over. >> Yeah. >> How can we help you today, hon?

>> So I just want to know So we've separated. He has filed divorce

papers, but I haven't signed them yet.

I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talkable.

>> Got you. >> That's even a word. That's not a word.

>> Have you suggested some sort of counsel?

Have you suggested hey, this is really bad. We need to get in counseling. What did he say? >> Yes. I said that and he said no because

you're that person is not going to tell me that I have to allow you to see my money. >> See, here's the thing. And I'm just going to go ahead and say this. This is based off of just what you've told me, so take it with a grain of salt.

This it Based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see. And maybe it does have to do with his uh stature or how people view him. He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money. Maybe that's a blessing. He's the one that's filed for divorce. Maybe this is you dodging a bullet. I don't know. I don't know, but this sounds like somebody who doesn't It sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told nor learn anything about

a better way to exist in a relationship.

That's what you've told me. >> Yeah. They um The and the the weird thing is is that uh all of his finances are now going to get exposed. >> In the divorce, [laughter] right.

>> Cuz the the judge is not going to uh go along with his plan. >> [laughter] >> It's very ironic. >> 100% of his finances have to be exposed

or he's going to have to lie to the court, which will get him put in jail.

So, uh you don't lie to the court, not even divorce court. So, you know, he has to come He has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has

to all come before the judge and he's going to find out that half of it's yours. That's going to be very weird for him.

>> Yeah. Well, we've only been married 2 years. >> Yeah, that doesn't matter.

>> Oh, I thought it was eight. So, you've been in the house for six years.

>> together >> together 8 years, married 2.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Uh what are you concerned about? Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on?

That you don't know about?

>> so before we separated, um I had to find

out the hard way that he had a garnishment on my on my account.

And so, I had to ask him several times to get it taken care of. Um he got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it.

>> Mhm. >> And you know, so I was just like for you to be so angry with me and telling me no, you won't allow me to see you financially, but you got a garnishment on my on my account. How is that fair? >> There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about. There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about. And it's Now granted,

I don't know what parts you've contributed to whatever mess is here.

I'm sure there's is two, you know, two sides to everything. >> Okay. It's been a year.

>> but my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some shame. Or, you know, it might might be just the way he views those gender roles. That you guys never aligned on that. Money is the man's thing and it's not Who knows?

But there it's never going to come out cuz he won't go to counseling with you. >> Yeah, it's going to come out in the divorce. You're going to find out everything about his money in the divorce. Um which is the irony of him filing for divorce because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money.

So it's kind of ironic. And he just He's just He's just dumb enough he doesn't know that. So this is going to be a real surprise to him. It's going to be this awesome wake-up call for him.

>> [snorts] >> Uh cuz the judge doesn't really care about The judge doesn't really care about his theories. He's just going to tell him what to do. And if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court. And it's really nasty.

You don't want You don't want to screw around with the judge. So um this is this is where he's going.

What can I say to him to do to make him want to do this? And the answer is nothing. There's not anything you can say to him. I wish there was one phrase, one way of doing it, but this is a very entrenched

position that he has taken to the point he's willing to give up his marriage over this. And so there's not a single

phrase if he was coming to the table and saying, "Hey, I want to work on this. Let's go to counseling." I could give you some things to say to do all that, but but in this situation you know, you're just going to be you know, you're just throwing water against the wall. There's nothing happening here. So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you chose poorly in a husband. This guy this guy's

bad news. >> Too bad. Yeah. >> You wouldn't no one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy.

Not a person out there.

Regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else is going on in the house, all that kind of thing, but this [snorts] is a guy that

is is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband. And >> It's [clears throat] sad. >> You're you know, there's not a single phrase that's going to make him not be a jerk. I don't have that not be a jerk phrase.

I don't have one of those. And I'm sorry. I wish it was. I wish there was something we could just do.

But unless he just decides that he wants to be together unified, work together in full visibility and in order to save his marriage and start with a marriage counselor, then you're you're not going to make it, kiddo. I'm sorry. I wish you were.

>> [music]

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> [music]

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Might not be in all states.

>> All right, today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia. He says, "I'm 66

years old and have been retired for 5 years. I have 500,000 in retirement funds, but I have two debts, 40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage. I have social security and pension income of 6,000 per month.

Should I pay off my debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401k.

Um I wish I had a little bit more information, but off the top I would say yes because to have your mortgage paid

for, that's money that you're not going to have uh to take a draw on. And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month, but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single debt in the world.

>> Now, make sure you >> Yeah, make sure you cut up the stupid credit cards and get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again.

>> Yeah, that's really what you need to do.

>> Yeah, this credit card debt is not the problem, it's the symptom of you overspending.

>> Yeah, and if it's it's if it's old debt and you're like, "Hey, I'm not I'm not on that lifestyle anymore. I just still have it laying around." Absolutely paid off, but if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

>> Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey Mike, how are you? >> Good. How you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um my wife and her siblings inherited some money from their dad when he passed away several years back, and one of the siblings is the executor, and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it because they don't feel that they're financially responsible, and they're just going to hold their money back from them. >> Oh. >> And I say that's not uh that ain't their call.

>> You're exactly right.

>> Okay. Well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes. >> The executor [laughter] of the literal reason they're called an executor is they're to execute.

>> Right. >> They're execute the what what the will said. It didn't It didn't say you're a trust officer and you get to decide what's best, it said you execute what the will says. That's your only option.

Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it. You have one option when you're the executor, and that's to execute what the will says. Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt, and they're going to win because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

>> What's your wife think?

>> Uh she agrees with me.

>> Okay. >> You guys got your part, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued. >> Well, I kind of did that. >> Yeah, well then that's you've done your job and leave it alone. It's not your problem anymore. >> How much is it?

>> Uh you know, I think it's like eight or ten thousand dollars each. >> Oh, it's not enough to mess with. But here's the thing, the person finds out that they were not given the money they're supposed to be given, the person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally. >> Well, that's that's what I kind of figured.

>> Yeah, for sure. For sure, but there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, it's just These are people doing whatever they want to do and that's what people do all the time. That's the problem.

you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will.

>> Yeah. And >> What is it you will to happen?

>> That's right. >> That's what that means. >> They need to be Switzerland. >> Yeah. >> Did you say deep kimchi?

>> I just did. >> Okay. Just checking. >> Just [laughter] make sure.

Things come up in the Rolodex. Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Nora. What's up? >> Hi, Dave and Jade. It's exciting to talk to you today. I have an exciting question for you. I want to know should

we buy a new car with cash or pay off our house? >> Ooh, my favorite type of question. Tell us more. >> Okay, so we are in baby steps four, five, and six. We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid like seven years. We have $60,000 saved for the vehicle in a high-yield savings account. But then when we are doing our annual budget meeting, we were also looking at our brokerage account, which is sitting at $35,000.

>> Okay. >> Our mortgage is approximately $83,000

left. >> Okay. >> So if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done. >> And still have an emergency fund?

>> Yeah, we do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund beyond those two amounts. >> That's a bit small. >> Is Yeah, is that what it would be if the house were gone?

Yeah, well we use like the brokerage account as like a backup emergency fund. >> have that anymore in this scenario.

>> We have We have $10,000 in our bank account right now as a >> I know. But if you use the brokerage account and you use the 60,000 from the car and you pay off the house, you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

>> Well, we want to spend approximately 50,000 on a car.

>> No, are you listening to >> No, no, no. He's saying He's saying if you pay the house off that's >> you pay the house off, you got nothing but 10 grand left.

Right? >> We also Well, we also have a $10,000 savings account that is just the side emergency fund. >> Oh, so you have $20,000.

>> So, we would have Yeah, we would have 20. >> If the house is paid off. Okay, that's what I didn't understand. All right. Are you Are you Is your net worth over a million dollars? >> It is, sir. >> And this is a brand new car.

>> Um new to us. >> Oh, it's not a brand new car.

>> It might be a year old or >> Okay, that's not a brand new car. It either is or it isn't. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> All right. Now, um so Wow. >> I mean, how long would it take you You could do either. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house? How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want? >> We think by probably August.

>> Oh, crap. >> I Man, I I got to be honest. I There's not a wrong answer. I'd probably pay the house off. >> answer. Don't Don't buy the car. Pay the house off and then go buy the car.

>> You would? >> I would never buy that car. >> I mean, I wouldn't buy I wouldn't buy the car. I would pay the house off, but I'm just saying, do you think she'd be dead wrong? >> Cuz in 8 months you can go get the car anyway. >> THAT'S WHAT I SAID. >> SO, get the house [laughter] paid off.

What What are your priorities here? Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car. Stupid cars you can get. I got a stupid car today. I don't mind getting a stupid car. Cars are fine, but they go down in value.

How's it going to go in value? Yeah.

>> But do you think that lightning would strike her down had she done the other way? >> doesn't strike you down on anything on this show, hardly.

Uh but that No, I'm I'm definitely paying the house off, 100% today.

>> do. >> I paid it off today. And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want. >> And you might even get a nicer car.

>> Parking it in the driveway of a paid for house. Hello. No question that that's the order of things that have to go down. Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. So, here's the thing.

And and I'm a car guy. I, you know, I I I've got owned a bunch of different vehicles here and there.

And um they all go down in value. >> Yeah. >> And so you're you know you can't put appreciating assets in the same sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy even if you've got a high net worth.

>> But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage. >> Yeah, it's simple. Yeah. I mean, if she owed $500,000 on the mortgage, then we could have a different discussion. >> Or even 100 Well, let's see. My tipping point probably would have been like 250.

>> Yeah, I mean, I just The point is is that this is very doable very quickly.

And so it doesn't matter. So, do it the right way. >> I'm with you. >> And and let your actions reflect that you've got um an understanding of how these assets work. >> Right. >> Cuz 5 years from from today

that $50,000 car is worth 15.

>> Yes, and that's going to be painful. Hopefully, you keep it for a very long time. >> from today that house will have doubled twice.

>> Yes. >> You know, so I mean, there's no question where I'm going with this. And it doesn't mean you never buy a car. I bought one today. Or literally.

>> You bought a car today? >> today, yeah. >> What did you get? >> I got the new Bronco Raptor. >> Look at you. >> I just wanted one. But I'm not I'm not mad about cars. That's not the point.

That's not the point. The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your overall life.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Nathan and Megan are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, doing well. Great to be here.

>> Good to have you. Where do y'all live?

>> We We in Woodstock, Georgia.

>> Oh, yeah, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. >> Thank you. >> Good to have you guys. And how much debt have you paid off? >> We paid off $155,000

in just under 5 years.

>> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Starting income was $100,000 and ending

income was $145,000.

>> Very cool. What do y'all do for a living? >> So, I work in technology. I manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry. >> Oh yeah. >> Yep. And I worked part-time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time. >> Okay, good. >> of debt was it? >> IT WAS OUR MORTGAGE.

>> [laughter] >> LOOK AT YOU WEIRD PEOPLE. >> I KNOW. >> THAT'S RIGHT. Very cool. How much is this house worth? >> About 450 now. >> Good for you guys.

>> And uh you've been putting money in your retirement all along. So, how much is in that? >> About 300. >> All right. Very good. Almost millionaires now. Look

at you guys. >> Wow. >> And uh well, how old are you two? >> I'm 28. >> And I'm 29. >> So, you guys started this in your early 20s. >> Yes. Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

>> And you did it.

>> Paid it off on Christmas Day 2025.

>> Wow, that's awesome. So, you must have >> Tell us the story. How do you guys be smart enough to do this at 22 years old?

>> Um well, honestly, he listened to you since he was >> Uh 12 years old. So, I grew up and we didn't we didn't have TV. So, as a teenager, I couldn't go to bed early. So, I turned on my clock radio to Dave Ramsey and I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying, but I started picking up picking it up and then I mean, it really just comes from my parents instilling, "Hey, if you're going to accomplish anything, you got to work for it." So, then following your steps along the way, we did Financial Peace University right after we were married and just I mean, worked as a team together.

>> Wow, very cool. >> Yep.

>> Yes. Yeah, and they were it was really just instilling if you want anything in life, you have to work for it. So, that was what my parents gave me and then you gave me the tools to, you know, us the tools to work together and accomplish this. >> We also bought a fixer-upper that needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity. >> Oh my gosh, I see the picture.

>> So, that's what it used to look like and we worked really hard on it and it's in Woodstock, which is where we wanted to grow up. Wanted the kids to grow up and

uh >> It didn't even look like the same house. Yeah. >> So, that's where we live now. >> was the dream. Uh just putting putting our hard work into it and not just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted. >> Looks like it started with a chainsaw.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> Wow. >> of poison ivy. >> yeah. >> So, [laughter] the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast. Like you already >> Yes. That was the whole idea. >> Yes, definitely. We wanted to attack it, you know. >> So, Megan, I mean, when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial show [laughter] on the talk or on talk radio before he goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd.

>> I know. I I learned this a lot from him

and then he got me on to you, too. Um and I truly he is a little bit of a nerd. >> So, it sounds it sounds [laughter] like it sounds like he was an attractive nerd. >> He was. Tall, dark, and handsome. I I was very, you know, it the financial

yes. >> [laughter] >> So, and I truly I mean, once I learned it, too, once we get financial peace, I was all in as well. We were just trying to do it together and I think that's one of the keys to doing it together.

>> Well, you guys start those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old and thinks it's impossible to buy a house. Um you could buy that house. Looks like a jungle. Put it back up there. Looks like a dadgum jungle.

I mean, that's the Yeah.

>> And you said it's worth 400 now?

>> 450 now and and >> Woodstock sweet. That's a great area.

>> They've always said it's important to dream together. So, I was actually took us 2 years to convince this lady who was vacant to sell us the home and we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me and I go that's our home. See our home?

And we we didn't even have it under contract yet, but >> Like every time we would drive by it.

>> And you know, following the principles of going, "Hey, we wanted it to we wanted a 15-year mortgage, not more than 20% of our take-home pay." >> How did you get her to to sell it?

>> Uh well, honestly, I was I was her friend for two years. She didn't know anyone else and I I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most of the time, but I said I just told her if whenever she wants to sell, she'll think of us first and one day after two years, she said, "All right, I'm ready to sell." >> Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence.

>> She wouldn't let us It was vacant. Yeah, it was vacant. >> and she lived in a different place and we drove there and got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until [laughter] she decided to say >> Till she relented. >> We're ready, yeah. >> Wow. >> I love this guy.

>> [laughter] >> This is incredible.

>> And of course, you cash flowed all the all the upgrades. You did >> inside and the outside. >> We went down to the studs and it was, you know, I had some family help, but it was all us just working through it. We did gas, electrical, plumbing. We did the septic system and we did everything.

>> So, you pay I I just need America to hear this. You completely >> all of that and paid off the $155,000

right? >> Yeah, so you 26-year-olds that are whining, "I can't buy a house right now.

Trump is ruining the world." Oh, kiss my butt. >> These guys right here, hold [laughter] their beer. Look at this. It's unbelievable.

>> Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there. Tell them what they need [clears throat] to know. >> Absolutely. Dave, you preach it.

I I actually saw the bumper sticker over there and I I love it and it was pray like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on you. And that was us going into this. I tell everyone that will listen I'm annoying. I'll get passionate about it, but I'm but you're the problem, you're the solution.

Work hard. There is I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity in America than there has ever been in any country for all of history. So, work for it. It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, "Hey, I can't do this." But, roll up your sleeves and get to work.

Work is underestimated and working together as a team, this has just helped us in our marriage. And, you know, now we have a home for our kids and we're just going to continue building the dream. >> Mic drop. You can pull that headset off and slam [laughter] it on the floor.

>> No, don't. Don't. Don't. >> Don't do that.

>> It looks expensive. >> Yes.

you know, eat at home and practical things like being content with what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you, and also just working

side hustles. We both worked during this whole process. I was stay-at-home mom, but also trying to help provide some

income during that time. And Nathan worked really hard at his job just to work work his way up, but also worked side hustles. So, do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life and be content with what you have um already. >> Well, I mean, you're not even 30 years old.

You have a paid-for half-million-dollar house. You've got You're well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months or so. Boy, the way the markets are moving and everything's happening. You guys are in really, really good shape.

Congratulations. I'm very proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you.

You have changed your family tree. So, your secret is work at it and stick together. >> Yeah, and just don't take no for an answer, you know? If someone tells you no, just figure another way to to do it.

>> Yeah, there's always another way.

Another way to get it done. >> Wow. >> That's amazing. I have one more question.

When you went to buy this house, uh how did you set your expectations? Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated and said, "That's not That's a shack. I'm not going to spend my money on that." How How did you know to do that? >> Well, great question.

I mean, my whole life it's been uh What are people We're so wealthy as a country. People throw away great things that we can work hard and and make beautiful. So, going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and we had talked about it.

What can't we change? Let's make sure that's good. >> Mhm. >> We can work hard in everything else and change that. >> Change some paint colors, change the flooring, just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside and we there were no mold issues, no um

like flooring foundation issues. Like we were very blessed. God blessed us with this home, too. Like we were put in all the right situations where we were like, this is not just coincidental. >> Awesome. >> Mhm. >> So so good, guys. >> Well done. All right, bring the kiddos up. Let's get their names and ages.

>> Oh boy, are they cute. >> [laughter] >> Cute cute cute. >> Oh, there's more of them than I thought. >> Yes. >> They just keep coming. >> Yes. We paid it off when he was 10 DAYS OLD.

>> WHAT a guy. >> Yes. Baby James. >> So, what's his name? >> This is James. He's 2 months now.

>> and the girls? >> This is Emmy. She's 5 and then Lily is

2. >> All right. >> Yes. >> You guys are your parents are heroes.

You don't even know it yet. You're too young, but someday you'll know they're the ones that changed the family tree.

Way to go. All right, Nathan and Megan, count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 155,000 paid off in 5 years making 140. Almost baby steps millionaires already at 30 years old.

Let's hear it. >> 3 2 1 WE'RE

DEBT-FREE. >> 1 WE'RE

>> WOO WOO WOO. >> I LOVE IT. >> WOW. >> I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT.

WOW. >> are cute. >> They are. I love it. [music] >> That's amazing, Dave.

>> Wow. >> Amazing. >> Oh, it can't be done. We're all going to die. Not No, not if you're Nathan and Megan. They got it figured out, baby.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. There is a lot of noise out there when it comes to money advice and most of it just leaves people confused. That is why we built

Ask Ramsey.

It's a free tool on our website where you can ask your money question and get a clear answer based on the same proven Ramsey principles we teach on the show every day. No mixed messages, no bad advice, just clarity you can trust. Go

to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day is 1 Corinthians 15:58. Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm.

Let nothing move you.

Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Thomas Sowell said, "There are people who go through the motions and people who get the job done." It's amazing how much work you can accomplish just by hiring the latter and firing

the former.

Amen.

>> [laughter] >> Charlie is with us in Cleveland, Ohio.

Hey Charlie, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you, Dave? >> Just the same. What's up?

>> Yeah, so my wife and I, we have two young kids and this month we just got

debt-free. So, we paid off the mortgage.

>> Wow! Good for you. There you go.

>> Thank you. Thank you. So, the question

is so I I have a pretty good job. My wife, she stays home.

My dad, uh he is in his uh 70s. He's

still working uh partly because maybe it's years of uh poor financial decisions. So, he cannot retire because he he has

to continue to financially support uh other family members, adult family members in the family >> Why? >> overseas. Um and uh so, I'm a bit torn

uh because I I I don't have any debt. I can help, uh but I also don't want to continue to encourage bad behaviors.

Um so, I'm kind of torn apart and and seeking some advice here. >> So, so what do you make?

>> Second to thousand. >> Wow, good for you.

>> When you >> And and what is it you're being torn about? What is What is it they're at you're being asked to do or that you're doing?

>> Um I want my dad to be able to enjoy

uh retirement life. >> Yeah, but he chose to give all his money to somebody overseas.

>> Uh well, he he lives overseas, so he doesn't live here in the states. Yeah, we are immigrants. >> Okay, from which country?

>> Korea. >> Okay. All right. And so, he lives overseas and he's 70 years old and he doesn't He has the money to support himself, but he doesn't because he gives it to other family members.

>> Correct. >> Okay. All right.

>> What's the situation with the other family members? Are they ill? Are they unable to work? Can he stop doing that today or is the damage completely done?

>> Well, I I see it's a multiple, right?

So, you know, some of the family member he support them uh just to help them with their lifestyle choices and some of the family members they chose uh not to work uh

because uh you know, some of the the the poor choices they made in the past, so that makes them makes it very difficult for them to find jobs. So, basically my dad has been paying for everything, you know, for as long as I know. >> happened if he couldn't?

>> That's the big question. So, uh we don't know. Uh he he he he makes >> So, do you give your dad money?

>> Huh? >> Are you being asked to give your father money so that he can work and give them money? >> He he He makes good money, but I would I'm worried he probably doesn't have enough saved for his >> What's the equivalent? Give us an equivalent in US dollars of what he makes over there.

>> Oh, he makes $250,000.

>> And he's 70 years old. >> every month. >> Okay, so let me stop. What's the problem?

The problem is he gives all of his money away and he's going to retire with nothing and ask you to get to help him.

Is that the problem?

>> The The problem is, you know, I don't know if that's going to make the problem worse because I'm I'm I'm worried that if I give him the the the money, the money just go through other family members. >> No, I I wouldn't give him anything. I'm just asking you today you're not giving him anything, so there's not a problem other than you're observing that in the future there's getting ready to be something happening, right?

>> Correct. I'm anticipating.

>> Yeah, that that's what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. All right, so what you're anticipating is is that he's going to run out of the ability to work and not have any money cuz he's given all of his away.

>> Yes. >> Yeah, at that point you can decide how much you want to help him.

I mean, and you you'll have the money, too. You make 600,000.

Uh but we're not going to help him to the tune that he has enough to help everybody else, only to the tune that he has enough to help himself. I'm guessing

because I I I'm a redneck hillbilly and I don't know these things, but I'm guessing that part of this might be cultural.

>> It is very cultural. >> Yeah. Because I mean in uh uh um you know, in the Latino world for instance, uh it's very normal to have uh a a more of a family

obligation to support parents than we would have in uh a typical gringo culture, right? Uh my hillbilly culture, you know, you're not required to do that. Puritan ethics, so to speak, you're not required to do that, right?

But in an Asian culture where you're talking about or the Latino culture, it's more normalized to be asked to

expected to and you've grown up with it your whole life. It's integrated into your DNA that that this is how things are done. Is that correct?

>> Yeah, I That's 100% correct.

>> Yeah, and I'm thinking that may lend itself to why he's giving all of his money away as well, even though someone in my seat would look at that and go, "Why are you doing that?" But but and the answer is it's a cultural difference um to do that. Doesn't make it smart, doesn't make it dumb, it's just the explanation, right? So, mathematically,

we can all agree it's dumb, but there's a reason that he's doing it. It's not just straight-up irresponsibility.

Uh although it is intertwined into this cultural icon. So, um yeah, I I you know, I think I'd talk to him about it if he'll listen, but I bet he doesn't. And just say, "Dad, you know, you need to be aware that when you are broke, I will be helping you only with food and shelter, not with enough to uh uh for you to further on your giving of these other people. So, these other people, when you run out of gas and aren't able to work, are going to be on their own.

And they should know that now because I'm not going to be held uh to this standard. I think it's okay to go ahead and communicate that, but I don't think it's going to change what's going to occur. What's going to occur is what you expect. I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Do you, Jade? >> I do. I think he's 70 years old and he's been making this decision for a long time. And it would be a miracle if he

stopped today. >> he's old school within that culture.

>> Yes. >> And he's he's duty bound.

>> Yep. Yep. >> And going to follow through on his duty to take care of them, no matter how irresponsible or you know, uh bad decisions they've been making. He's going to do it anyway. I think, aren't you, Charlie? You agree with that?

>> I agree. I agree 100%. I tried to have a conversation 10 years ago. It really go anywhere.

So, I decided to focus on my own and then try to get that free and protect the family, you know. >> The hard part for you, Charlie, is holding going to be to hold that boundary when the time comes because you're likely going to feel guilty and all these other things, but it wasn't your you didn't make the choice, right? He did and that's the thing that you'll have to remind yourself of many, many times. >> And you'll be able to help him to a reasonable degree.

>> Absolutely. >> an unreasonable degree. And the And it's not going to be It's not going to make everybody happy.

But you great news is you make a huge income and you're going to be in a wonderful position financially. And if you want to reach over and do a you know, help somebody a little bit every month, you can do that and you won't even notice mathematically.

And so, that's the thing.

So, yeah, not accounting [clears throat] for cultural differences.

And And you have to account for that. So, it's a It's not fair to say that, but you just Folks, you need to plan to not be a burden on your children.

>> Yeah, you do. And you're You said it exactly right. You know, it might be a reason for a behavior, but it doesn't make it right or good. >> That's true. >> And the same way that Charlie was able to look at that and go, "That doesn't make sense." >> Yeah. Yeah, and he comes He comes out of that.

Comes right straight out of that. So. >> So. >> Yeah, you just got to go, "Um, no." >> Yeah, you can't >> We're we're we're not going to participate in that. It doesn't make sense. And I've learned a better way.

>> Yes. >> And that can happen. You could learn that I could learn that from his culture you could learn that from my culture. It doesn't matter. You can learn a better way. >> That's right, but the hard part is he's going to have to do that at the expense of um >> hurt feelings. >> hurt feelings and family meals and all that stuff is going to be very different when you when you draw boundaries like that people don't like it and they push up against them and all that stuff, so.

>> Count on it. >> Good luck to you. >> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 81. Good Intentions Aren’t Enough—Be Intentional With Your Money | December 23, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcxezRpLYXM) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:52:56 |

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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the Ramsey Network. Dr. John Deloney Show is

my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Joan is in Florida. Hi, Joan. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. I would like to know

if if it's okay if I lock my husband out

of my savings account.

>> Wow. Tell me more. Sounds pretty dramatic. >> Yeah, it is. Um, we've been married for 45 years. Um, uh, probably 20ome years

ago, we got into some credit card debt.

a lot of credit card debt to the point where we had to take out a second mortgage. Um, I also borrowed against my 401k and it took probably 10 years to

claw out of that debt. And I mean, we were really good about budgeting and um, now we are we've have our home paid off.

All our cars are paid off. We had absolutely no debt until probably the

last year. Um, I picked up a second job before to help, you know, get these this debt out. Well, I've since left my second job and, um, we are just spending. I say we, it's not really we, it's him. Um, is just spending way more

than what we're bringing in >> on what? >> Um, oh, just he is just he bought a

boat, he's bought a truck to pull the boat, he's bought uh road bikes, he's

bought mountain bikes. Um, he has gone

through $40,000 in savings in the last

year buying these things. >> What is your all's net worth?

>> Um, net worth, our home is worth

probably 650,000.

I have uh 650 in my 401k. Um, I had

50,000 in savings and now I have I guess there's about eight in there now. And >> you keep using the word I. How much does he have in his 401k? Nothing.

>> Okay. So, you have a net worth of a million and a half dollars, give or take, >> correct? >> And your household income is what?

>> It's 82. Between the two of us, it's 82,000. >> And you guys are in your 60s.

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And so, what kind of midlife crisis is this dude having at 60?

>> He is. He's saying that he wants to get all these things bought before he retires and he plans on retiring next year. So he wants to enjoy his life. Um

we sort of had a significant event happen in our family. Um we had a family

member of ours who just worked himself to death and died in his 40s and um

didn't enjoy life at all. Didn't enjoy any of the money that he made. So um my husband was like, "Well, he's not going to do that. He's not going to be like that." >> It doesn't sound like the problem is the boat or the truck. It sounds like you come home from working your second job and all of a sudden there's a new boat in the driveway. Oh, I hate it. I look out there and I see it and I hate it.

>> No, no, no, no, no. Him doing crap without you guys being in agreement in it. >> That's the problem.

>> I agree. >> You didn't You didn't know this. You didn't go along with these purchases.

They just occurred.

>> No. Well, I did go along with the boat, but I didn't realize he was going to spend as much as he did on it. And I didn't realize that um he it I mean, he

just keeps putting more money into it.

For people that have been married 45 years, you all suck at communication.

>> Yeah, not good.

>> Yeah, I agree. I agree.

>> Or did he just change it on you? Have y'all been communicating well for a decade and then all of a sudden this went sideways?

>> Um, no. No, this isn't this isn't new.

Um, we've never really agreed on finances. Um, you know, I'm I'm more of

let's save, let's put it aside, and he's more of let's enjoy it. It's just gotten it's just gotten bad in the probably last year. I I appreciate your frustration and um and even your anger

and those are justified. All right. But the problem is not the savings account.

That's the symptom.

>> Okay. >> The problem is you all are not aligned.

>> I agree 100%. >> You're not unified. And so I don't think I'm hearing you say cuz you said I went along with the boat. I don't think I'm hearing you say that you're opposed to

enjoying some of the money. Uh what I do

hear you say is you don't like being surprised and um and people running

roughshod over your hard work while you're working two jobs.

>> Yes. >> And that that's fair. >> Second job. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> I gave up the second job. Yeah.

>> But to compare Eurol's life in any stretch of the imagination to the 40-year-old workaholic, he's not even on the same planet. So you can't use that as a justification to do something stupid and lie to your wife.

>> It's the dishonesty. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you really do for the sake of I

mean if you're in your 60s and you guys are healthy, you may have to be fighting with this old man for another 30 years.

>> So you need y'all need to really work on this and get on the same stinking page

>> because >> I agree. >> Yeah. Sharon and I make more money and have more money and I don't buy any boats without Sharon knowing what the boat costs and ma and we make the decision together beforehand and if the boat involved a truck to pull the boat we would be talking about that too. We don't just make this up as we go when I come home and go see what I did honey and we've been married 43 years and I'm 65 years old.

So we're right in the same camp with you kiddo. >> Okay. >> And here's the other side of it. He's not on the phone.

>> Yes. The Gottmans are um

like kind of the goats when it comes to marriage research. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And they created this thing called the the the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. They can tell with 90 plus% accuracy after watching a couple communicate just for a little bit whether they're going to make it or not.

And the the relational dynamic of

contempt where one person thinks they

are better than the other person is the number one predictor that this thing's not going it's going to fall apart.

And listening to your language, this is mine. I put this in my account.

He has nothing.

I'm wondering if there's not a dynamic in your marriage that has established itself over the years of you're the good one and he's the bad one.

>> Yeah. >> You're the you're the you're the smart one, you're the one who saves and he's the child. And these dynamics have a way of self-reinforcing themselves. Doesn't give a pass.

It doesn't give an excuse for his dishonesty, his lying to his wife, his his >> impulsiveness. >> Yeah. Acting like a child. But it creates a context for where if you're going to treat me like a child for 40 years, I'm gonna act like a child.

Doesn't excuse it. And if he was on the phone with me, Dave and I'd be letting him have it. But you have to say, "This is a dynamic that we have co-created for 40 years where I think I'm better than him because I make more money or I had a second job or I have retirement." >> The quality of his soul would be greatly increased if the two of you could mutually respect each other, dignify each other with being in agreement before we make major decisions. >> There you go.

And that usually starts >> and that also concludes combining ownership of everything.

of stuff. >> And when you sit down to have conversations about um feeling dishonest, whatever, if you sit down and say you went out and did this again and you did this, he's going to fight you.

He has to. You've declared war. If you sit down and say, "Hey, I'm hurt. I'm scared. I feel this way. Start the conversation with eye statements and that can be an invitation. And then if he continues to act like um a child, then we're going to have to respond in some different ways. But you got to reset this whole communication pattern.

>> Yeah. I I You guys got to work on your skills. That's it. Your skills are low.

And that may mean sitting down with a marriage counselor who's not who's teaching you how to develop these skills.

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Funny they popped that picture up there.

That's a great picture. But it's one of the few times that someone's head glows more than mine. His hair just lit up under the lights. Mine usually shines like a bulb. You know, we have to put so much makeup on my head to keep it from just glistening, right? And his hair is like a dad gum halo, which would not be appropriate, right? But

>> it lights up. And he had us change the lighting cuz it was even worse than that. That That's funny. I like it. It was a good shot, though. Fun stuff. All right, for that's for those of you looking at YouTube. Open phones at 88 8255225.

Danielle's in New York City. Hi, Danielle. How are you?

Hey, good afternoon Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, Dave, I'm calling you because um I

have a question uh which is how do I b

how do I bounce back financially and get myself ready for retirement?

>> What are you bouncing back from?

>> Um well, I have been uh I had an

accident in 2007 which left me disabled.

M >> um I had to learn how to walk again.

>> Wow. >> Um and so finally um I got to the place

where I could do a part-time job cuz I needed the the money that I was getting from social security disability and my pension was basically going towards my rent. >> Um but I started doing that and um you

know hurt myself a couple of times.

wasn't able to really save up and then uh co came I was able to get a full-time

job but it was a temp job so of course that wasn't really enough still to you know save anything. >> Yeah. >> Um but now >> are you are you single Daniel?

>> Yes I am. Okay. I am single.

>> And you're 57. And how are you doing with the disability now? Are you working full-time or how you doing?

>> Praise God. I am working full-time. In fact, I just recently um was hired permanently. >> Good. What do you make? >> So, uh my salary is 50,600.

>> Okay. And you live in the city in New York City on 50 grand?

>> Yeah. >> Woo. I didn't know you could sneeze for 50 grand in downtown New York.

>> Wow. Okay. And you've got and you've got pension coming in in addition to that.

Are you still getting the social security?

Um, unfortunately, no. I >> work no longer qualified for it.

>> And they stop Yeah. And they stopped my pension. Yeah. >> Um, and in fact, that's part of the debt

that I owe because according to Social Security disability, I owe them $52,000.

>> Um, not to mention um $17,000 to IRS.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, $8,000. I had I had credit cards.

Um, but I owe 8,000 on that. And then >> How much is your rent now? >> Friend of mine.

>> Well, right now I'm living with a friend of mine. Uh, so I'm paying $375 a month,

but I am trying to get my own place. Um,

because, you know, I I love my friend and I want to keep her as a friend. Um, but I need my own place.

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you do. Okay. All right. And so you've got a total of how much debt?

a total of 80 87,000.

>> Okay. And and a bunch of that is IRS and

repayment to social security for the time that you were working and should not have received disability according to them. Right.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. All right. Have you fought any of that yet?

>> Um I I talked to social security.

They're saying that I can possibly >> Yeah. >> Um have a security Yeah. Okay. So, I think we need to get someone in your corner that's used to fighting that battle because those battles are lengthy. Um, but they're

doable and they don't um they don't come

around telling you what all your rights are and what you can pull off there, but there's some things you can do there.

So, and uh and it will might and it might even affect the IRS bill if you refiled your an appeal and refiled an amended return on your tax bill. So, what I'm going to do because this is a complicated situation, I'm going to put you with one of our Ramsey coaches and I'm going to pay for it. It's not going to cost you anything. And they're going to come in and look at your situation and go at some of these people and see if we can get this 87,000 down to half

of that or something by just working the system and then we can work through the rest of it and get it paid off and then start building up some kind of a nest egg because you've got to start working towards a nest egg. Um, and you know,

it's all about, uh, cost of living versus what you've got coming in and finding those differences and being able to push that through. So, uh, you you've had a hard road, kiddo. You need somebody to love you well and walk beside you. And we're just those kind of folk.

So, you hang on. I'll have the Christian pick up and we'll get you one of our coaches as a gift from us. And, uh, I think they can help you. I really do.

It's what they do every day.

over that stuff. So, yeah, different world. >> Tell me about the Social Security repayment, Dave. I've never heard that before. >> Well, if you continue, if you're working >> Mhm. >> Um and you're uh receiving full payout

on SSI, which is Social Security for disability. M. So, she was declared

permanently and totally disabled by the government. Based on that, they're paying her >> probably 34,000 bucks a month, give or take. Okay? Might be more, might be less, but somewhere right in there. And it's not unusual. And based on the fact that she's permanently disabled and she qualifies to receive social security support >> uh instead of or in is different than the retirement you get through social security. Uh, but then when she went back to work, she kind of says >> double dipped >> says, "I'm really not permanently disabled anymore. I've gotten past that.

I've worked my way through that with therapy or whatever. I'm able to work again, but kept getting the checks." >> Okay? >> And so that that's not okay, >> right? >> You can't keep getting a check for being permanently disabled when you're no longer permanently disabled. And you've proven that by working. If you had a private disability company that you had

a disability policy at your work and they were paying you >> and then you went back to work, they would have private investigators following you around with cameras, >> right? >> So that they could not have to pay you the disability anymore. >> Do you know if you have to pay tax on SSI benefits? >> You do not.

>> So if you're getting 4,000 bucks, >> and that's where some of that taxes came from. So, if we can reduce what's owed back to them, >> then that might reduce that IRS tax bill probably. I'm guessing I'm I'm fishing around in the dark there, but I think that's what I'm hearing.

the hard work, getting back out there, right, >> is >> and you don't know if it's going to work. >> It's good for everybody. That's right. Good for everybody. But if you're getting a check for 4,000 bucks a month, >> 48 a year after taxes, right? That means you got to be making, >> you got to go find a job that pays pretty dang well >> to even get to to come off even.

>> Yep. Yep. >> That's tough. That's a tough order.

>> Yep. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Or human nature is going to say, "Why why swim upstream?" >> Yeah. Because you want to be well.

That's why >> I mean, you have it has to be that way. But if she's making 50 grand, then she took a net loss in her house after taxes. Yep. >> Living in New York City. >> She did. And I think she said they stopped her pension too. It was early early with release on it based on disability. So like we had a guy here years ago that was making over uh 400

and something thousand. One of our top guys uh uh got MS

>> and went home out. He was gone. He he

later passed away from it at an early age. but um went out on disability and

the disability people were paying him the policy we have here maxes at 300k or

it used to I don't know what it maxes at today and so he's getting 300k man they were fought on him everywhere >> I bet so huh >> trying to figure out if he was doing anything if he lifted a shovel if he got

paid for doing anything they were going to disallow that claim so you know we were coaching him whatever you do no matter how good you're feeling don't work >> because they're g they're They're going the long lens across the parking lot.

>> They're going to capture you doing anything. Yeah.

>> So, um uh and as because they get

defrauded in their defense, >> it's just one of those things that just there's not a lot of winners there, right? cuz I know they get defrauded and they want to protect their their money >> that they're >> they swing the pendulum so far that you just have to be paranoid about how you live >> or you got to be somebody like you know Danielle who says I'm going to take the net financial loss because I'm worth some different kind of life y >> and I'm going to have to work extra hard because it's going to cost me money to go get what?

>> Well, I'll just feel better about my life when it's me. That's right. Not some check coming in. >> Good for you, Daniel.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality, PhD in counseling is my co-host today.

the open phones at88255225.

New Hampshire is on the line. Garrett's calling. Hi Garrett. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

>> Uh, I've racked up about $156,000

in business debt. And I've kind of been

contemplating bankruptcy. And I didn't know if maybe you thought I should or maybe

had other advice or options.

>> Wow. I'm sorry. It's scary, isn't it?

>> Yeah. Are are you married?

>> No. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> 25. >> Okay. And what do you uh owe the business debt on? What kind of debt is this? Credit cards or vendors or? Um so

about um so 30,500 is vendors.

Um $55,000 is I was dumb and took out a merchant

cash advance.

Um and then I owe my parents like

$65,000.

>> Okay. And then another another vendor 7250

>> uh 7250.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. And what kind of business is this or was it?

>> Uh I sell cabinets and countertops.

>> Okay. All right. And um

so uh a merchant advance

on what? >> Yeah. So my like future revenue

basically I gave them my bank statements and then they said we'll give you this much and it was like a daily payment and

then last year in 2024 I hit a very slow time and it pretty much just took me for everything I had. >> Yeah, that that one got you. It's a payday lender of your world. Yeah. Um because the interest rates the interest rates also ridiculous. Correct.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And um so what method do they have

access to your current checking account?

Is that how they they clean you out every so often? >> Um they were I've since put um like stop

payments on them and I'm actually I was working with like a or am technically still working with a consolidation agency, but that that cost is like $1,200 a week, which I can kind of do, but it's it's hard to manage that. And every time I miss a payment, they're threatening to cancel the program and it's non-refundable and it's still another $28,000 I have to pay into it before they'll um negotiate with them. And >> yeah, I think you stopped that immediately, too. You you jumped from the frying pan into the fire, didn't you?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I panicked and >> um I did all that before I'd kind of talked to anyone about it. Now, pretty much my whole family knows and I've been a little more open lately, so I've been getting like some more advice.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, are if you didn't have this mess, are did you do all this because you weren't making money?

>> Um, no. I was I was doing pretty well and then I I took a lo a pretty sizable

loss on a job and I also got a little full of myself after like a really good 4 month stretch. >> Mhm. Um, and I fell behind on my bookkeeping, which looking back, that was kind of the debt. That was like my detriment to it all.

>> You did a really good job in two sentences describing what happened, cuz that's exactly what happened. I can smell it. You're you're you're really on top of that. That's very well done.

You weren't doing your books. One job, you got o you got out too far over your skis on and they set you up for a fall and you were feeling invincible. Those three things together put you here. I believe you.

That's well done.

That's a Most people aren't that self-aware when they're in this much pain. Well done. Proud of you.

>> Uh we work with entrepreneurs and have for years. I've been bankrupt when I was your age. So I know exactly how it feels to be where you are. So the way we fix this is we take the things that are working and we apply them in a forced

rank order of importance. Bankruptcy is

not going to solve it because you can't bankrupt mom and dad. You can legally, but you're not going to. You're going to pay them. >> No. >> So, half of this almost is one thing and

it's them. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, >> the rest of it is 90,000 bucks worth of stuff. Um, how quick can we make that?

Now, let's pretend that you were just operating properly. You weren't out over your skis. You weren't taking jobs that could take you down. You weren't feeling over your feeling and you weren't borrowing any money. What can you make in this business? What kind of profit in a year can you make if you just started fresh?

>> Um, so last year I did about $400,000 of

uh revenue, right?

>> And I have a my margins are right around

uh 31%.

>> Okay. So you can make 100 you can make 100 grand a year and you have a $90,000 problem.

>> Yes. >> Cuz mom and dad aren't mom and dad aren't pressuring you.

No, but >> you want to pay them, but they're they can be they can be at the end of the list and that's okay.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, >> uh >> now here's here's an idea.

>> Nice as well. >> What vendors do you have to pay to keep

supplies coming to keep the business open?

>> What dollar amount does that represent?

>> Pretty much the the >> 37,000.

>> Not entirely. >> Yeah, I didn't think so. Half of that >> 14 17.

>> Yeah. >> About 20. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> About 20,000. >> You need to get on the phone with them first and we need to get on a program with them where we're going to clear them first and in return they're going

to keep sending you supplies. Cood.

>> Yeah, I have been I've been paying them.

It It was a large >> No, listen. I'm giving you a program. I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not asking for the story now. I'm telling you what to do. >> Okay. Okay, >> get on the phone with them and set up a program to pay $37,500 plus your new new

material needs going forward out of your hundred. It's the first thing you do.

The merchant people, uh, tell them they're not getting paid maybe ever, but

they're certainly not getting paid right now. You're going to sit on the sidelines and we're going to settle up later. If you want to sue me, sue me.

But I don't have any money. And if you sue me, I'm going to file bankruptcy and you're going to get nothing. So, you need to just sit over there until I can get this thing cleaned up and then I'm going to come pay you off. Okay?

You have a conversation with them, but you give them no more money and no more access to your business. You go make a 100 a year, 120 a year. You clean up your vendors first, and then you keep the cash flow running.

Then you go pay mom and dad the next year.

>> Right. >> You're out of debt. I just got you out of debt in three years.

>> Sounds sounds good to me. >> It's it's it's doable. What I just described is very doable. I've done it a thousand times. Now, the trick is you got to believe it and you got to be tough enough to run off these people that have been scaring the crap out of you. >> They've been running your life emotionally. They live in your head rentree. >> Can you tell? I've been there.

Yes. Yes, for sure.

>> It's no fun. And and and you feel like, you know, they're they're saying you're not a good guy, and you're a good guy that made a mistake.

>> You're not an evil person.

You didn't set up a business to go screw somebody, >> right? >> You're just a young guy that made some mistakes and now you got to go clean up your mistakes. Um you can file bankruptcy if you want, dude, but you're still going to have to pay your parents. and you did all of it over 90 grand that I just settled for somewhere around 50.

And you shouldn't file bankruptcy when you have the ability to make 120 a year.

>> Not morally, but I mean mechanically shouldn't file bankruptcy when you got the ability to make 120 a year and 50 grand cleans up your mess.

>> Cuz you're going to pay the 37. You're going to pay the 37,000 worth of vendors because you got to keep them in your life. The other people you're going to settle for 50 cents on the dollar and then you're going to call mom and dad and pay them as quick as you can. Never borrow money again from anyone,

not even your parents. Have you learned your lesson?

>> Yes. >> Yeah, you can do this, Garrett. You can really do this. I promise you can. Isn't that cool? >> Yeah. It's the master class on um when

we get scared, man, we go to fight or flight, we stop thinking. And sometimes it just takes someone to to >> sit down and say, "Hey, here's a plan. >> Here's the forest. Here's the trees." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't burn everything down. >> I'm lost. I'm lost in the woods. We don't have to burn the forest. >> Yeah, that's exactly right. >> Just got to cut that two trees over there and then we can get out >> and then But you got to keep walking.

>> Yeah, just keep moving. Keep moving. Keep moving. And the good news about this guy is he's really smart cuz he quickly self analyzed. Very unusual.

Very unusual. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Thank you for joining us, America. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr.

John Deloney show where you can hear all

about boundaries and relationships and

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I can tell you that. So check him out.

It's all on the Ramsey networks anywhere great podcasts are heard and certainly on the YouTube show as well. So, uh, anywhere you are, by the way, if you're listening to this show, we thank you for that and, uh, we can use your help. If

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were number two and number three in all of Apple podcasts. There's about two million of them. And Joe Rogan was sitting there at number one. NPR was in there at number two or three. We were in there at number two or three. And that's because of you guys sharing and telling people about it. Thank you very much. We appreciate you. It's really important because we don't have a stadium named after us like or somebody like that, right? Excuse me. I got an allergy. But all right. Uh Steve's in Salt Lake City.

Hey, Steve. What's up?

>> Hey guys. Hey. Um, I've got a short-term question and a longer term question for you guys. Um, the short starting taking

a family vacation. Um, so I'm a uh the

single income earner of our family. We have seven kids. My wife homeschools our kids at home. Um, we've not taken a vacation in probably eight or nine years. And recently, we ended up we we

just got done doing a big home renovation. Spent about 50 grand uh out of pocket, you know, cash flowing that.

And the last little probably 15,000 or so we had to take out of our six months six months fund to finish the project because of course it always ends up going more expensive than you thought.

So my question is um and first of all we

have a kid about to go off to college in about 4 months or whatever it's going to be um and we want to take that vacation

before he is obviously gone. Um, I've

only saved up about $1,500 for a vacation over the past few months or so.

Obviously, that's not going to get it done. To take a family of nine on a vacation, we probably need 6,000 or so for that vacation. My question is, do we pause on um rebuilding that six-month

fund back up to about 60 grand a $60,000

and put it for the vacation or

get get that full six months back in the fund and then focus on a vacation?

>> Man, that's so dangerous. >> That makes sense. >> That's just so dangerous.

I mean, you you completely rationalized spending all of your vacation money and some of your emergency fund on the renovation and so you chose not to go on vacation when you did that.

>> True. >> Yeah. So, you traded cuz you had the money to go on vacation.

>> Just didn't do the renovation.

>> But you chose the renovation instead of the vacation.

>> Yeah. Basically, we we bought a house that did not have a built-up basement and we had half of the house basically.

So, >> so that's when you chose when you bought the wrong house. That's when you chose to not go on vacation. >> Okay. >> Because you chose to do a renovation because you chose. But see, these are all choices.

It's not like somehow that somebody stole something from you and you you put

the money on one thing and now you don't have it to do the other thing. That's how it works, right?

>> Yep. >> Correct. and and having nine kids and no emergency fund or a limited emergency fund, dude, you're asking for trouble.

>> Okay, >> that's so scary. I I'm scared for you. I

don't care. It doesn't matter to me. You're the one with the nine kids. I I don't have to I don't have to feed them.

You do. But I'm scared for you.

>> Um Okay. And I want you to get to do the things you want to do. I'd love for you to go do that. You can do whatever you want to do. Y'all are adults. You can make these choices. You've been making choices. But I want you to realize that when you're making choosing one thing with money, you're choosing not to do several other things.

>> Sure. Okay. >> And so you're choosing but to if you choose to go on vacation and have a limited emergency fund, not if the emergency occurs, when it occurs, because it's going to occur. We we have nine opportunities for an emergency here

>> at all times. >> True. >> And uh so when it occurs, then you've chosen to leave your family vulnerable.

And the trade was for a vacation. That scares me. Uh so you guys do what you want to do, but I I think I'm going on a $1,500 vacation.

>> Yeah. And I think I Man, Dave, I'm totally with you. And working with parents who were dropping their kids off at college, there's always this illusion that we got to get this last thing in.

We got to do this thing. >> It's not over. >> No, it's not over. Number one, but often that last thing, we don't really care about the kids. We need to do it for us.

It's almost like this guilt induced this is it. We got to do a thing and we got to everybody's got to come do this thing and it ends up >> Well, but we've never had a vacation in how many years, >> right? In 17 or 18 years >> and we chose to do a renovation or buy a house that required a renovation, used up all our money instead. >> That's right.

>> So, the vacation obviously was not as important. >> Wasn't a priority. That's right. And now it's this end and now there's this sense of, oh, we're about to lose him.

He's going to go away. It's the last spring break. We got to do this thing. And so, I would invite the kids into a room and say, we have this much money.

Let's get as creative as possible. We're going to make our own snacks. We're going to go to a KOA. We're gonna have a blast.

But this is the money we got. And I promise if you do it right, the kids will have a great time. Now, whether you go and feel guilty cuz it's not in Cabo or something, that's on you. But you chose to spend that Cabo money on on on a renovation or on a house.

>> Yeah. Um, you seem distressed. Just a just a >> Well, I just I I I I want him to be able

to do this. >> Yeah. >> But I can't as an adult say it's a good idea. I guess there's I I I kind of I

kind of get it. But but I the other thing I think that you're pointing out something that's very right because we had some of the best vacations with our kids that we ever had while they were in college. >> Yeah. It's not over.

As a matter of fact, on the front of a cruise ship one night at happy hour before dinner, they decided as adults to start telling us all the stuff they had done as teenagers that we didn't know. >> I would have paid money to be there for that.

total failure as a parent because I had been deceived by these three brats repeatedly throughout their teenage years. And I had no idea. I thought I was so on top of it >> and I completely had no idea what these skunks had been into. >> Well, here's what's going to be fun at the at the Ramsay cruise.

>> Um, >> we're going to do it again. >> I'm going to get Rachel and Daniel and things that have happened in the last decade that you probably don't know about. >> Oh, I don't even want >> but we're going to we're going to go through them all again, man. >> So, yeah, it was a great cruise other than that particular evening.

But, yeah, it was um but they were adults. Daniel, I think uh maybe Denise was out of college and Denise and um well, no, I know. I guess Denise and Rachel were both married, come to think of it. In fact, >> here's what y'all did and we've all heard the statistic about um >> we do stuff together with them as adults that's better than it would have been when they were 13.

>> Well, and that's the thing. I was just there's a statistic going around that you get 19 years with your kids. You get 18 with them at home in the rest of their life all added together as one year. And I think that we just go Yeah, >> it's called gush.

But it's it's >> unless you're unless you're a twerp as a parent. >> It's one of those cultural they're just gone. And I think nope. If you're intentional and you build relationships and you're somebody they want to be around.

>> Yeah. >> Then >> it's kind of like what stage of children did you like the best? >> Yeah. >> All of them.

>> They're all different. >> And I don't want to do any of them again. >> But I liked all of them. >> That little boy who just reached out to >> Oh, he's great.

He's great. As long as I can hand him back.

>> Yeah. >> My son have to do the potty training. I can just do the hugs. Okay.

So that that's great. That's the way it's supposed to be. So, you know, if I don't known how great grandkids are going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents. But, you know, that that's a different thing.

So, but I'm and I'm loving this stage, right? >> I'm loving the other stage. I And I've loved every stage. I don't Yeah.

It it's um So, embrace the toddlerhood, embrace the teenage years, embrace them leaving for college, >> but every expense is a choice at the end of the day. >> Yeah. And you're choosing the thing you got to remember, it's called opportunity cost in the finance world.

When you do B, you lose the opportunity to do A. It'll only do one thing. It won't do both. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, PhD and counseling is my co-host today. Open

phones at88255225.

Kim is in South Dakota. Hi Kim, how are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. So, we um live debtree, had

purchased two used cars. We followed your program since we had our daughter 20 something years ago. um and have lived that way, but ran into a little snaggle when we were part of a natural disaster. And we had purchased homeowners insurance with State Farm and had a really high deductible because our opinion was we had enough money saved that if something happened, we would pay for it ourselves and not pay a huge premium. And so that's how we lived our lives. Um we don't go on vacations. Um

our we have one child who was in college and we were paying for that with cash. She's premed so she has to go to school for that. And so that's kind of how we lived our lives until this storm came.

But the storm made our house unlivable.

And so we had to go into a hotel for two and a half years. And the insurance company um did not pay us uh like they

said they would. And so we ran up thousands and thousands of credit card debt dollars in debt to pay for food, housing, all of that stuff. And unfortunately, we tried to resolve this with them and couldn't. So we we have an attorney who's filing suit against them to try to get our money back.

But in the meantime, >> we're trying to dog paddle our our way out of this. And at the same exact time, our child had to have open heart surgery. We had to take her to California to Stanford. And we spend a lot of time, which I have no control over these bills at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

You have to pay for food when you're Mayo gas. And so it's very difficult to budget. So I just wanted to know if there's something I'm missing because sometimes you're too close to it to see it. Um what's the best way to manage

this because I don't feel like I have control like we used to have. Um and I

just wanted some ideas.

>> Okay. Um

I I mention so for 20 years you were completely debtree and you didn't have any money.

Well, we had did have money, but we used a lot of that um to do repair up front.

We became the Bank of State Farm.

>> Yeah, I know. But how much how much money did you have?

>> Um we had a I'm going to say saved up

and not used for college cash on hand because we just bought this house probably about $100,000 >> that we had saved up. >> And so why did it take two and a half years? And why were you not buying your own food while working?

Um, well, we couldn't pay in the hotel.

You can't you can buy food, but you can't cook if there's no >> Well, I mean, if it's going to take two and a half years to go, why don't you go rent something?

>> We tried. Um, there wasn't anything available that met the the physical needs that we had. We had moved our neighbor into our home who was 90 years old, actually 95 for end of life care, and we couldn't have stairs and there were just requirements that we had that they could not meet. So, we ended up in a hotel and you had to pay for laundry.

You had to pay for, you know, meals three times a day. >> I mean, State Farm screwed you, but so did those decisions.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, that you you quadrupled or 5xed

your cost. And it doesn't take two and a half years to rebuild a house.

>> Oh, it's not even done now.

>> I mean, I mean, why Okay, so >> I built an entire house in in 11 months.

Why can you not build a house? I I I've got family members that just lost their house in Texas and last night was their

first night back, >> but it was it's been what, four months, five months? >> Like Yeah. Two and a half years. Tell me about that. Like it seems like they could have knocked the whole house down. >> It was a natural disa. It was a natural disaster. So there were lots of building going on, projects going on. So there weren't a lot of contractors available.

It was also during the time where you had high gas prices and stuff and contractors didn't even want to come out to look at the house. It wasn't something that they wanted to do because there was so much work. Um there was a lot of contributing factors. Also the fact that State Farm was not approving things. Um you kept having to wait. They would make us do another estimate and another estimate another.

>> Right. So, but you stayed in the ditch

rather than making a decision to do something completely different for 2 and 1/2 years. So, that's what put you here.

Um, my goodness. And now the health your

your daughter that's studying to be a doctor has had open heart surgery.

>> Correct. >> So, she's not studying to be a doctor right now. She's recovering, right?

No, they're the school's letting her stay in school and she's trying to do stuff, you know, online and submit things sometimes late. And >> did you not did she have health insurance?

>> She has our health insurance, my husband's health insurance. >> And does it not cover the surgeries and the other stuff?

It covers surgeries, but it doesn't cover any any of the other things associated with it like hotel bills and

gas and food when we go to Mayo or when we had to go to Stanford. We in Stanford for seven months. >> Yeah. So, what is your household >> income for?

>> 188 >> and and you can't buy a hotel bill and

go to Stanford if you make 188,000.

Well, again, I mean, we did and you

know, put things on credit cards and you

know, >> you make 188,000 >> because we had a mortgage payment and we had college tuition and we had other things that we were paying. I mean, it wasn't and we were paying, you know, for the house while we were in the hotel. I mean, there was a lot of those and I could sit here and go over a single bill and you go, "Oh, that makes sense." But we're not extravagant. I mean, we're not

um give you an idea like we've canceled our trash service and gather up our own trash and take the dump ourselves and run sprinklers money.

>> Yeah, we're not trying to pick those apart. I I think if if I back all the way out of this thing, I think the part for for every emotional health challenge, there is this distance from this scary terrifying line called reality. Mhm.

>> And if you on my show, I say this probably three times an episode, which is the life you had is over and you got

a new one now.

>> And what most people try to do is keep parts or the whole of their old life going while navigating this new reality.

And so, for instance, you were in a position when you were debtree and had 100 grand in the in the bank and y'all made $200,000 a year to fully fund your kids college. That's a dream you'll have. It's a priority for you. If you can't afford it though, you can't afford it. And that's a hard conversation with your kid. That That's what I'm That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. And you know, the third month, not the third year, >> right? >> I sue State Farm and I move out of a hotel.

the third month and if I have to pay for nursing home for the 92 year old neighbor as a to just to make me feel good about that I will or maybe not >> or go to my church and say >> maybe I I can't do this. I thought I could help this guy and I can't help this guy anymore. I'm not in a position because only the strong can help the weak and right now our knees are broken and we can't do anything.

Um, so I think you got to start putting some limitations on some of these things that you keep declaring as absolutes in this conversation. >> The absolute is we got to have a place to live and we got to keep our daughters like healthy. And outside of that, I think everything's got to be back on the table. >> And 188,000 will do those things.

>> Yeah. >> Without credit card debt and without parsing it out and parsing it out and parsing it out, you know. So, and you

know, just if if it's any consolation to you at all, State Farm has a horrible reputation on claims. You're not the only one. So, sue their butt. But I'm not going to wait around on them to fix my life either.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Larry Berquette used to be on the air a thousand years ago. did a Christian radio show, um, Money Matters, it was

called, about what the Bible says about money. And he's one of the guys I learned from. I certainly learned what the Bible says about money from Larry a lot. He passed away several years ago. We became friends before he passed away, but at first I was just a fanboy. And

uh, he used to say, "Debt is never the problem. Financial

problems are never the problem. They're always the symptom.

So you need to keep that in mind because that's how we're going to view it.

Personal finances 80% behavior. It's 20%

head knowledge. So if you have a student

loan debt that you've made no progress on for 5 years,

the student loan debt is not the problem.

The new triplets that just came were not

here for the last 5 years. They're not

the problem.

The interest rate is not the issue. This is not an

interest rate issue. This is a you

problem. And John, when people get to the bottom of that, that's the beautiful thing about the the work you do in counseling with a PhD in counseling and uh the work that that the reason you joining this team as a Ramsey personality is a is a perfect overlap to

our approach to money because what I'm

the interest rate is irrelevant

because you haven't dealt with you.

That's the thing. When you deal with you, you're you're not only going to get financial peace, two words that don't go together, like airline service, but you're also going to get uh progress and

wealth. Until you deal with you, you're not going to get any of that, >> right? And it's hard to sell somebody on that when they're so convinced from a Tik Tok ad or or Tik Tok, you know, swipe or whatever where they got the information. Um, and I think a lot of us sit in our house, man, and we just spin out with life's problems.

I can't imagine having triplets just show up after having a couple of other kids. I Whatever your problem happens to be, you lost your job, your marriage is falling apart, whatever it is, and it's so much easier. We have so much distraction in our world, we can just spin our wheels and jam that gas pedal into the bottom of the of the car, thinking we're going real fast and we're going nowhere. We're just avoiding.

um it lures us to our own death because

it makes us think we can fix it by fixing the math.

And the math is very seldom the problem.

The math is the symptom.

It's not the problem. The problem is our

spending, our income, our lack of

control, our lack of working together, >> our choices. Just keep our behaviors and

our our principles by which but but we somehow think we can unplug from all of this stuff that's called our life and set this money thing over here to the side and just fix it with just math.

>> But the pro and and the reason you can't is it doesn't unplug. It's sitting there

right in the middle of your freaking life because your life is impacting it.

It's impacting your life. You can't just set it over here in a test tube and go, "It's a math thing. 6% versus zero." It's not a math thing. And let's let's I want to speak to the person who's listening to this or to the gajillions of people who are listening to this who are five years from today away from

triplets or a job loss or a mom calling

and saying, "I have cancer." or a husband saying, "I haven't been faithful." Or whatever the thing is, that choice starts now. Cuz 5 years ago,

if they had been hellbent on paying these things off, it's life would still be chaotic. But I want people to listen to that man's voice. It just sounds cooked, right?

It's it's heartbreaking.

>> And you can celebrate the chaos of three kids coming home or not be able to breathe because you can't there's no there's no room for three kids. I remember when our oldest daughter Denise had the third one. Her husband Bill said, "Well, we just went from man-on-man to zone defense." >> My buddy said, "Man, it was all cool till we went from manto man to zone and they win." >> Taylor is in Indianapolis. Hey, Taylor.

What's up? >> How are we doing today? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure man. How can I help?

>> Um, so I'm thinking about doing a job switch right now. I drive a dump truck and I'm in the union and everything, but I'm looking to be a pilot.

But I have 5,000 in debt and it's going

to set me back another 85,000, but I plan on having the 5,000 that I have now and paying that off this season before I get laid off.

>> Now, you're asking me if you can go if if I think you should go $85,000 in debt to be a pilot. Is that what you're asking?

>> Yeah, if you think it's a smart job.

>> No, it's not.

Okay. >> Under no circumstances would I do that.

Now, should you go become a pilot? Yeah,

probably. How old are you?

>> Uh, I'm 30. >> Okay. Are you married?

>> I am. >> Okay.

Um, I would talk to the Air National Guard and see if they have any programs for training pilots while you serve your country.

weekends and two or three sets of uh boot camp a

year. Um that wouldn't put you away from

your family necessarily uh or not for long periods of time. Uh and let see if they'll pay for it. They have lots of wonderful programs. I know that. Um I I

also would start talking to the local airport about how I can get my hours there uh after I get a I would pay to get a certain number of hours and get my first set of Are you licensed at all?

Um, no. Right now I drive a dump truck.

>> No, I know. I heard that. But have you gotten any pilots hours in at all?

>> Uh, no. >> How do you know you want to do that?

>> Um, I worked at the airport about five years ago and I wanted to do it about then that time. Sorry.

>> But I never pulled the trigger and I end up just going to get my CDLs and I've been at this for about five years now.

>> Okay. All right. I I'm with you on living your dream. I just don't want you to do it in such a way it becomes a nightmare. So, let's figure out a way that we can walk into this a little at a time, start getting your hours in while you keep driving truck and cuz you're making some good money on the truck, but we're not we just don't want to be doing that 10 years from now. You want to be in the air, right?

>> Yes. >> But I don't want I don't want to try to do it at super high speed because I don't want you going $85,000 in debt because you might not make $65,000 the first year. It's very possible if you got your commercial hours in and you can actually fly a jet and that may cost you more than 85,000 to get to that point where you can actually pick up a regional job doing some of these puddle jumpers. They don't pay anything, man.

>> Yeah. >> Entry level pilot pay sucks.

>> Yeah. From what I heard it's about 55,000 a year, but then >> Yep. >> I would be going with Lift Academy. I say I get on with Republic and they're paying $94 an hour starting off. Mhm.

>> How many hours I get? >> Maybe. Maybe. But >> but hey, you're you're about to walk into the trap, brother, where you borrow a bunch of money and you've done some napkin envelope on the top carrier, paying a top dollar, and you've made that math work. >> Yeah. >> And there's a lot of may and maybe nots and probably and probably nots in between you and that dollar amount, man.

>> So, you're trying to jump from the dock into the boat, and the boat's not close enough to the dock. That's what I'm saying. So, I want you to pull the boat closer to the dock. And how's that sound?

It sounds like going over there starting to get some of your hours, paying for your first level of licenses, maybe get a weekend job as an instructor once you got enough hours under your belt. And they'll pay you to put more hours down and you can start to build your hours up because the biggest cost is not the actual certifications, it's the hours to get ready.

want to take because if when you take a job at 55 or 60 versus what you're doing now, union to dump truck, you're taking a pay cut to move into this dream

initially. And I don't care if you found one off at 94. That's not the that's not the industry. The industry is 55 or 60 right now for entry. And I want you to go do that because you can make your way up to two or 300,000 someday. But please

don't go $85,000 in debt and rush this.

do it a little bit at a time and or talk to the Air National Guard. Let's see if you can figure out a way to get some hours working for your country and they'll pay for the whole stinking thing possibly. I don't know. Let's see what they got out there. This is the Ramsey Show.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. We trust Y refi because they

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Might not be in all states.

>> All right. Today's question comes from Jenna in Minnesota. Jenna writes, "Should I help my boyfriend pay off student loan debt?" No. I guess we could just end it there, but I'll keep going.

I know what you're going to say, so let me explain. >> Still no. >> We both went to college for mechanical engineering. My parents covered my tuition, but my boyfriend has over $125,000 in college loans.

We both work good jobs and bring home a combined income of $200,000, but his loan payments are killing him. He didn't want to burden me with them, and he wants to put our life on hold, marriage, house, and children, until they're paid off. He has about 15k in savings and so this is going to be a long process. I have 80,000 in savings and roughly 300,000 in stocks that my grandpa set up for me when I was a kid.

Should I help pay off my boyfriend's loans by adding an amount to his payment every month? Pay them outright or do you think I shouldn't help him at all?

>> That's exact I was going to say he is this is a it's a red herring. It's a it's a proxy. >> It's a ploy. >> Yes. So listen, kiddo. We tell folks when they get married, everything becomes shared.

So you will have $125,000 student loan when you're married because your husband does. He will have $300,000 in stocks

that his wife's grandfather left her. He

will have $80,000 in savings that his wife had before they got married. And so

when you get home from the honeymoon, pay off the pay off the student loan.

But this is bull crap.

It's bull crap. >> On a stick. So frustrating.

>> Yeah. Tell boy child time to get, you know, part of the problem is is we're all playing house over here. So he's got no incentive to get married other than blackmail you into it. So now if you want to have a healthy relationship, y'all get married yesterday since you're playing house anyway. We have a combined income. You don't have a combined income. You're not married. That's bull crap. You're shacking up. And we would not have a show if people like you didn't withdraw um $125,000 from the

money that their grandparents sent them to pay off a boyfriend's loans and then y'all break up.

>> Oh yeah, that's like >> standard. >> We wouldn't have this show if that didn't happen all the time. And I know you can say, "No, not us. Not us." >> No, he would never do that.

>> Yes, y'all. >> The guy that won't marry me would never do that.

>> You know how you sound so seriously? No.

>> Don't. Please don't. Please don't. Please don't. >> Time to get married, boys and girls.

Look, I think this is a I think it's a good I think it's a good like an altter call right here. It's come to Jesus. Are we Are we going to do this or not? Yeah.

>> Cuz if you're going to get married, y'all get y'all come home from the honeymoon. We would tell you to take the $380,000 that you have in assets and pay off the $125,000 debt that he has. And then we take off with our life with our fabulous combined income and zero debt and whatever's left

of that money, which would still be 200,000 bucks. So, yeah. And by the way,

when you get married, what you're agreeing to do is to help carry burdens together >> for richer, for poorer.

>> And so if he if he already says, "Well, I've got this thing going on, so I'm going to hide it from you. I don't want to be with you. I don't want to be apart from you." This will be the rest of your life. This will happen with kids. This will happen with tuition. This will happen with which church to go to. This will happen again and again and again.

This is the big glaring neon sign.

>> Put our wife on our life on hold.

>> He doesn't want to burden me with them. >> To put our life on hold, >> then he he's not ready to marry you then. Oh, brother. >> We're going to work together. Work together. Work together. >> I'm going to give this guy about 20 minutes.

Get me to the church on time, baby.

I'm serious. I'm I'm done with this guy.

This is bothering me for some There's something about this that's running all over me. And I I'm usually a little bit I'm pretty pretty mean, but I'm usually a little bit more gentle than this. >> Yeah. >> But this is this there's something wrong, Jenna. >> Here's what I Here's what is is getting under my skin. Oh, I know what it is.

You have worded all of this.

It's all the dad gum language. That's what's killing me. You have worded all this cuz you have bought this freaking sales line. >> That's it. That's the thing.

>> She's the problem. She thinks she is the problem here. >> This guy has complete. He's a I'm afraid he's a con artist. >> He's a leech. Yeah.

>> So, either way, if you're Listen, you you either need to leave or you need to get married.

There's no don't pay off his loans.

>> And don't pay off his loans unless you get married. And if you get married, then it's our loans and our money. And we'll do that. But you got you got about 20 minutes, buddy. About 20 minutes.

Stop the sales job. Don't like don't like uh con artists who are sleeping with the person they're conning. It's a problem.

Dad gum salesman.

Sorry. I think I've had too much coffee.

John, merry Christmas. Ho ho ho. Oh my gosh. I need to calm down. But yeah, I just I think about my girls and they did not Thank God we, you know, thank God they we taught them how to pick and they picked studs. So I've got two sons-in-law. They're absolutely incredible. >> I I Yeah, I've got a young daughter and >> you would kill him.

>> But here's what here's why. I saw you just >> I know. I do. Here's why. This young woman, Jenna, is >> is astounding.

>> Yeah, she's a dead gummy. >> She's a mechanical engineer. She makes 100 grand. She's got half a million dollars already put together because her grandpa hooked her up. >> And she's got this guy that she loves and the guy is making her the reason.

Yeah. >> And so she's asking herself every day, what am I doing wrong? Oh, I have another way I can save this thing.

>> I I want to help. I know what you're going to say, but I'm different. No, >> it's not you, it's him. It's him.

>> You're worth more than this. That's what I'll say. >> You're more valuable. >> The dad of a daughter. >> We're angry for you, Kevin.

>> Yeah. So, >> brought to you by Wy Refi and

Preparation H because I got hemorrhoids now. God, makes me so mad when guys are idiots. >> Patrick's in Orlando. Hey, Patrick.

What's up?

>> Hey guys. Um, so the situation is we're

uh my wife and I are 67 and we've got 2.8 million in four

different mutual funds. Way to go.

Debtree.

>> Thank you. Thank you. We're debtree. and

we got an offer we couldn't refuse on our business. We close December 11th. We

get 575 cash and we hold a note for 5

years for 300.

So that brings me to the question because I've got a daughter that lives in Austin, Texas, and she and her

husband have been married for 20 years and we have a beautiful grandchild. Um,

and uh they're saving for a house.

They're also debtree. They're doing everything right. They're both teachers and um they want to get a house and they're saving like crazy. Um two rounds of IVF

to get Julia here uh pretty much wiped out their savings and uh they're trying to come back for that. And I'm thinking, you know, December 11th, I collect 575.

I could probably, you know, give them the money for a pretty nice house in Austin with that 575.

>> And uh so that's one option. Option two would be a really strong Just do it.

>> Yeah, I like it. >> Okay. >> I like it. Can I Can I add one thing to it?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I I do want this to be a gift and I'll teach you a technical thing you need to do, but aside from that, I do want it to be a gift without strings.

Sort of, >> right? But I I would sit down in person with them, you and your wife, go to

dinner and make this a big deal. This is not just a drive by breakfast one morning coffee. Okay? We're going to a nice restaurant. >> We're going to make a production out of this and say this has nothing to do with the grandkid. Although you've said it six times that it does, but it doesn't.

Okay? It shouldn't. It shouldn't because

you shouldn't give it to them because the grandkid. You should give it to them because they have been responsible and you're not bringing harm to them and you're not enabling bad behavior.

Instead, you're accentuating and lifting

the positive thing that they have been doing with their life and it's going to it's going to change your family tree the rest of the way. So, yes, you should do it. And I would say I'm going to give this to you with no strings attached. I will tell you I have a favor to ask that

you promise to never borrow money again.

Love it. Love it. >> And I wouldn't I wouldn't make that it's not a contract, >> but I would just say I I'm doing this to change my family tree, >> but if you go screw that up by borrowing money, it's going to break my heart.

And I would do it. Yeah. Now, oh, Unified Estate Tax Credit. Talk to your tax guy. You need to use up some of your estate tax exemption so you don't have gift tax. Don't do this without tax advice. Go get some tax advice, please.

This is the Ramsey Show.

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Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at8255225.

Matt is in Seattle. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Um, I I got a question for you. So, I currently have three jobs and spend more than 12 hours a day working. And I save

and invest about half my income. So, I'm

saving about 100,000 a year. So, financially, we're sound, but it comes at a cost. So, I'm not spending enough time with my children and my health is

uh deteriorating. Well, not I'm not dying, but it's impacting negatively.

>> How much do you have in savings in your investments?

>> Yeah. So, I So, with I've been doing this I've been having three jobs for about five years now or going into six years. >> So, you put a half million dollars away.

>> Yeah. Exact. Well, yeah. Exactly. So, with that money, I've bought um four homes. one primary residence and three single family homes and I'm renting it all out right now. >> Okay. And what are the three single family homes worth?

>> Um roughly on average about 600k

>> each. >> And I bought it for about Yeah. Correct.

>> Okay. So, the the three rental properties are worth $1.8 million and they're paid for.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no. Um about about like 40 I have about 40% equity on each house. Oh, so you still have debt on them. Okay. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, wait. Half a million. Okay.

>> So, when it comes to equity, I have about 1.3 in all all those four houses.

Gotcha. >> And I have about 350,000 in uh savings

and IRA combined.

>> Yeah. So, I just turned 40 and I I've been happy so far, but like I I just turned 40 this year and since then I've been thinking about a lot of stuff like is this am I am I doing a good thing?

And I initially I thought um

uh I'm doing the right thing for the family, but I'm starting to think about myself too. I I think I'm just kind of going through the midlife crisis. But also, so when I think about quitting those two jobs, the thought of living paycheck to paycheck terrifies me.

>> Honey, you're not living paycheck to paycheck.

>> If I Well, if >> you're putting $100,000 away,

>> quitting two jobs is not going to make you paycheck to paycheck.

>> You're so exaggerating that.

Well, if I after I put all the like max

out on 401k and IRA, I'm not going to be

saving any money at all.

>> Oh, >> on a monthly basis.

>> So, back off of your investing. You only got $2 million.

>> You're not living paycheck to paycheck.

That's a bogus emotional response.

>> Why are you afraid to just sit at home with your family, dude?

>> Yeah. >> Why? Why?

>> Well, initially I was part of like fire movement, but I'm I'm thinking a lot a lot of things can happen in the future.

So, I >> fire movement burned down. Did you notice >> it burned to the ground? It burned around people's ears because they were trying to do something that wasn't sustainable.

>> What you're doing is not sustainable.

What you're doing is not sustainable.

>> You didn't build a life. You built a financial portfolio. And now your brain is waking up and saying, "Go build a life." and and we're saying yes, go build a life. >> Here's what I promise you, dude. >> I agree with your brain. >> When you're 50, you can hand the kids a

key to a rental house.

>> I promise you, they would have exchanged it for time with their dad.

And by the way, that's a false dichotomy because you work hard. You're still going to be able to offer your kids a pretty extraordinary life financially.

And you get to spend time with your kids. I think you're scared to go home and be with your family. Am I wrong?

>> Well, are you afraid to admit that the fire thing you bought into sucked?

>> And also, I think it has to do with my ego. Like, I just I'm successful and

superior, but >> And you have four houses worth $1.3 million per year. Your net worth is $2 million and you're 40 years old. Ding, ding. You got the bell. You You rung the bell. You're done.

>> You're done. If you don't do anything else, you're going to be worth $20 million at 65.

If you just let the investments that you have grow, that's all.

There's no need to panic here. And uh by the way, people working and enjoying their work and going to work and having meaning uh as long as they're able is not bad. I intend to be on this microphone until I don't make sense.

Now, I don't want to be one of those guys that doesn't make sense. We've seen those and they're dangerous. But um yeah. So anyway, yeah, we need to get off at that point. But no, you dude.

Yeah, your brain is telling you what to do. You already know what to do. All I'm telling you is is your emotions are exaggerating that you're like going to be starving to death and or something and living paycheck to paycheck. Not even close.

>> How much of >> Oh, here's an idea. >> Quit.

And if a year from now you're you think

you're going to be homeless or something, go back to work.

>> Three different jobs. >> You can get you can get those jobs right back. Those kinds of jobs are always waiting. How much of this stress, Dave, because I've never lived this life. You keep telling yourself with your neoortex, the your thinking part of your brain, I'm worth $1.3 million. I'm worth $1.3 million. But your amigdula, the threat detection part of your brain says, you still owe $900,000 on these

four houses. If you still owe money, you still owe money. And every month, no matter what your net worth is or how much money you have coming in, your brain knows you're still on the hook for all these property. That's got to weigh you down, doesn't it? >> That's probably part of it. But I think he's been running at breakneck speed. He didn't even notice that part.

>> I I that's my opinion just talking to him. I think he's just No, he was trying to run. He He thought there was an endgame. >> Tell me about fire. >> Fire is >> to retire young. >> To retire retire at 40, not have to work again. Yeah. And the numbers don't work.

>> Gotcha. >> It does. You people. And because the problem with money, like when you view money that way is money's a bully in the schoolyard.

As soon as you say, "Hit me in the nose," you step back. If you cross this line, I'm going to hit you. You step across the line, he steps back and draws another line. Says, "If you cross this line, then I'm going to hit you." And that's what money does.

It keeps keeps because there's always another one. >> There's always a bigger thing. There's always a different thing. There's always a reason.

There's always inflation. There's always a better car. There's always a Oh, mama. Mama wanted a house in the mountains.

You can't check you can't catch that carrot. It's impossible to catch. And so, uh, if if you could maintain

godliness with contentment and say, "Okay, I'm going to live a lifestyle of

$50,000 a year income." Then you can build a big enough nest egg to quit.

But you can, you're something about our psychology won't let us do it. We start out with that and that's the math. But then by the time we get used to living on a $150,000 lifestyle, uh then I got

to go back to a $50,000 lifestyle to quit. Which is exactly >> what he's saying. He's saying I'm going to be paycheck to he's not even close to paycheck to paycheck. But he's going to have to cut his lifestyle. He's going to have to drop his investing from $100,000

a year contribution. >> No, that was in addition to maxing out everything else. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So he can still max out everything >> and >> and you can't do $100,000 extra.

>> Extra. Yeah. >> And that's paycheck to paycheck. That's not paycheck to paycheck. >> There's also this you get to be 40 and you got $2 million and you thought it was going to feel a different way.

>> That's true. You thought it was going to be a billion. >> You thought you were going to do nothing and doing nothing will kill you. >> It's one of the things I had to outline with all these um little communists that are coming out of college. Have to explain to them the um that a billionaire is not the same thing as a millionaire.

A millionaire. A billion is a thousand

million.

Billionaires have four houses, a jet, and seven cars. Millionaires have two

used Camry and one house

and it's paid for and they have $800,000

in their 401k. That's a millionaire. But

a billionaire is a thousand million. And

people emotionally have these two things confused. They think of some rap artist

or whatever in a private jet, which they don't even own. It's chartered. But um but I mean they think it's there. They oh that's how you don't live like that with a $3 million net worth.

>> You you know stupid jet would be more than that much less you know the whole I mean it's just like so that's not how it works. It's the emotions of when I get to be a millionaire I'm going to be a billionaire. No you're not. You're going to be a millionaire. Two used came.

>> That's still a good thing. >> Two used Camry and $800,000 in your 401k and a paid for $500,000 house >> and a lot of laughter in your home. >> Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. You're done. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, number one bestselling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, massive hit on Ramsey Network.

He's my co-host today. Open phones at825-55225.

Lynn is in New York. Hi, Lynn. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I wanted to see if I should take out

a $10,000 loan to help my mom fix her

kitchen. Um, there's some emotional reasons why I would and why I wouldn't.

And ultimately, I'm trying to see if the financial the financials make sense to help me make the decision.

>> So, you don't have $10,000 to give your

mom?

>> I don't. No. >> Okay.

And your mom's broke?

>> She Yeah, she has a pension. She has social security. She's retired. So, she's on a fixed income.

>> How How old is your mom?

>> She's almost 80.

>> And how's her health?

>> She's actually quite spry for her age.

>> Good. Okay. And what's wrong with her kitchen?

Um she tends to hire uh do a lot of DIY

and like hire handymen who aren't quite handy. And so the last few years

>> uh to to renovate the home in general.

>> Oh, I see. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so um you know she's half

funded projects over the years and it's left the kitchen you know with only a subfloor, no cabinets, no countertops.

um is just kind of in a state of disrepair and she is older even though

her health um is pretty great. I worry

about you know her age and food safety,

physical safety in that space.

>> Wow.

Really bad decisions.

>> Yeah. >> Um okay, man. I just appreciate how much you love your mom. That's sweet of you

and uh that you want to take care of her and you don't want her living in a house that's um probably wouldn't pass codes right now. Um

so that's nice of you. Um you do know

you called the show where we'd never tell anybody to borrow money, right? You know you called that show. I I I did and

I'm, you know, I'm trying to the the other part is, you know, I've worked really hard over the last few years um >> to get out of debt. And yeah, and I'm not going to tell you to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen.

>> The math the math doesn't work.

>> Um I mean, if you had a million dollars laying in your account and you want to spend $10,000 on an 80-year-old's kitchen, that's fine. But I wouldn't do that. >> Um >> Okay. >> And and I certainly wouldn't borrow the money to do it under any circumstances.

and I but I do applaud your heart. Now, let's try to fix the problem though.

>> Okay. >> A different way. So, is your mom um in a

good church?

>> Um she I would say she does go to a

church. Um >> good. >> But the church is the place where she has been recommended these people who have like fixed her home. But all >> good. That's even better. That's even better. >> So, here's what I want you to do. I want you to take some pictures of the mess that is her kitchen and I want you to go have a lunch meeting with her pastor

and say some of the jack legs that go to your church have done this and so I'm going to ask since we have an elderly widow over here that you organize a work group of some young men who actually know how to swing a hammer and come over and put her some cabinets in and put a floor down.

I want you to take care of an elderly widow for because she's an elderly widow and she's a member of your church. And I really want you to do it because some of the jack legs that go to your church are the ones that caused the problem in the first place.

>> And I got a feeling you can shame this pastor into getting some work done.

>> Okay? >> Nothing feels better than shaming a pastor.

I'm messing with you. I'm being harsh.

But you see what I'm saying? But I can I tell you this is some of the best advice I've heard you give Dave. I love this idea because you know why it is it's the bluff call. Are y'all going to be who you're supposed to be?

>> You're going to take care of widows and orphans. >> Here you go.

>> You got you got quiet on us, Lynn. Why don't you like that planned? >> I mean the handbook says that's real religion. >> Widows and orphans. >> Yeah, >> that's what it's the handbook says.

>> My mom um she doesn't like accepting help. She's not always the most uh She was going to take a $10,000 loan from you to do a kitchen. That's called help.

>> She didn't ask me necessarily for the loan director. >> I know, but you were you had a plan where she was going to do that. So, let's have a plan where her church supports her cuz her church's jack legs are the ones that mess this up. >> And by the way, this is going to be good practice because over the next 10 years, she's going to need more and more support and care from you and others

>> and others. And you're going to have to get out of the habit of deal debt fixes anything.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz it makes it worse. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I don't want to give you a negative scenario, but I really don't want you paying a loan off after your mom passes

away and you're paying payments on a kitchen that she no longer uses.

That would be really, really negative.

>> Can you imagine writing that check every month?

>> Yeah. And it wouldn't be um it wouldn't be an investment in that sense that I wouldn't. So it would not. Yeah.

>> No, it's not. It's just consumption. And it just you it's just your sweetheart wanting to help your sweet mom. And I I think both of you are sweet ladies and I I don't want her to get messed over anymore.

And I don't want you to mess yourself over trying to be sweet. And so let's not do this. Let's not step up in this trap. I'm real serious.

If I if it was you, if I was you, I'd go have a and I've got the money to write the check, but I I in this case, I think this church has an opportunity to serve.

gets her kitchen put back together and the church gets an opportunity to go help somebody out. That's awesome. And I don't know how we got here, but seriously, if a recommendation came from inside of her congregation and they left an elderly widow in this situation, the pastor really has an opportunity to work with that person on their character.

>> Right. Absolutely. >> U because you just don't want to be on this list of you don't want to be on the list of people messes with kids, widows, and orphans. It's there's several things in the scriptures that are really don't you don't want to be on that list.

Uh you want to be on the list of the people that help those people. That's the list you want to be. The the good it's the naughty list and the good list. I mean, that's this is it.

It's not Santa Claus, but it's God. And so, you know, you know, it's woo woo.

>> That's a you know what I that's a great idea. I hope that happens more and more.

>> Well, you have so many opportunities to do things that way. And um and honestly,

I work with so many churches. I mean, we work with had 50,000 churches have taught 10 million financial peace

congregants um over the last 25 years.

And I know a bazillion churches that

have the funds and have the systems to take care of the

single mom, the widow, the orphan, and they don't always know a way to connect to one. >> Yeah. >> And so just giving them the opportunity, letting them, hey, here's one. And they go, thank you. >> Yeah. and they're ready to go do it.

It's pretty incredible that they're just standing there ready to go. They they're willing, ready, and able. They just don't have the connection >> and because no one wants to raise their hand and say, "Help me." >> And I know a number of young men who are asking, "Hey, where there's no places to serve. Like, I can go to a local soup kitchen or something, but I got to get in line and there's other Man, if you could go to church, >> there's a 25-year-old Bible study group of men at that church, >> show up on a weekend." >> This was their weekend project.

They could put that whole kitchen back together. >> Be amazing. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Then they all walk a little bit taller. >> Everybody wins, boys and girls. This is how this works.

Okay. If you're going to win with money, you have to tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went. If you don't know where all your money went in 2025, that's normal, but normal sucks. We don't want to be normal. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading Every Dollar. The app Every

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New and improved. Don't go into the year feeling broke and stressed. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play right now. James is in Rhode Island.

Hi, James.

>> Good. Dave, how are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, I'm 40-year-old guy. I got a fiance and a baby who turned two in July. and my fiance and I, we have three Airbnbs that are doing really well. Uh, four years into it. Um, last

year we grossed about 102,000. Uh, this

year we're go we're forecasting to do about 127,000 gross on the three Airbnbs

with a 62% profit margin. Day job is

hospitality sales. I make about 100 120,000 a year. She is a psychologist.

She makes about 110. So, our issue is um

there are these microl lofts and another one is available, but it's in a super historic old building and I'm thinking

about getting a fourth Airbnb, but the

banks are telling me that I got to put 40% down and they're going for about two

and a quarter.

So, I want to hear your take if I should

get another profitable Airbnb

and have it under the same roof as all

my other ones, or is that considered maybe too high risk?

>> Okay. Um,

well, I

not sure you called the right show. I'm not sure that you know what we do, but um the uh um so I own several hundred

million in real estate. Okay, I love real estate as an investment.

>> Um I went broke in the real estate business in my 20s if you haven't heard the story. >> And the way I did that was I borrowed too much money >> and um the banks called our notes because we were in a high-risisk scenario. Um the Airbnb business is

basically the hotel business.

>> Mhm. >> Uh it's a very high laborinttense, you know, a lot of hassle. So the money

that you're earning on those Airbnbs, you're working your heiny off to get that money. >> And you're probably working I am >> you're working some other people's heiney off because it's a lot of hassle.

>> I'm the maintenance man. I'm the housekeeper. I'm the guy checking him in. Yep. Yeah. I mean, and you have a two-y old away, so Yep.

>> Yeah. Why don't you pick up golf, too?

Oh my god. You know, I mean, you ain't got time to do nothing. Um, so, uh, I I

don't know that you have the bandwidth to add another one on your personal number one. Number two, the risk with

Airbnbs is that, as you probably know, and I don't know where it stands in Providence, Rhode Island, but many HOAs,

many neighborhoods, u many entire municipalities are passing zoning to stop it >> because they're disruptive to the neighborhood. Um, and so I know a lot of

people that have lost the ability to run an AB Airbnb on a property they bought for an Airbnb and in a historic setting that's very possible, >> right? It's it's in a unique building.

It's the oldest mall in America where there's retail on the first floor and the second and third floor was repurposed to Airbnb. So it is in a commercial zone. >> Okay. So that means the risk of them reszoning it and keeping you from doing it is less >> to my understanding. Yes.

>> Or it's going to take one new tenant downstairs that's a big tenant that says I don't want people living upstairs.

>> Well, we're all on the board.

>> They already got residential in there.

It's just a matter of whether it's nightly rental. >> Okay. >> Residential because it's a hotel in a sense. So I don't know. You're you're doing some things I don't want to do and and I don't recommend people do things I don't want to do. So, number one thing you're doing is you're buying property with someone you're not married to. Very

dangerous. Number two, you're going in debt to do it. Very dangerous. Number

three, you have a high-risk business

model that's dependent upon someone else

called Airbnb. Very dangerous. Number

four, you have to do all the freaking work and you're getting ready to add 25% to the workload going from three to four and you have a two-year-old. Very dangerous. So, that's what I meant by I don't know if you've been around us much. And I'm not trying to be mean to you. Uh I just think I think that all you have seen in this is the upside.

You've not considered any of the downsides. And that's the way I was in my 20s and it's what caused me to go broke. And so now I'm always looking.

I'm not negative thinker. I buy I mean like I said I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. I love real estate but I have low hassle real estate. I don't I don't own a single Airbnb and we've got enough residential I easily could do that. But we don't want to screw with it. It's just too dead much work for the money. Too much drama for the money. And so we'd rather

make the money um you know a little slower and with a lot less hassle factor. And we don't borrow money. 100% of our real estate's paid for. I don't borrow money to buy real estate. So, I'm a fan of the category of real estate,

but after that, I've kind of given you some things to think about. Um, so until

you've thought through all of those things and make sure that you've decided how you're going to own what ownership vehicle you're going to own this in with someone that you're not married to, real dangerous. um you know that that

you get yourself into all kinds of messes here and I think that's what the bank is smelling and that's why they're wanting a huge downstroke. Um but um you

know a a good way to look at any business opportunity too James is to scale it in your mind and if it doesn't scale then don't grow it. Meaning if it

works for 40 Airbnbs we might do four. If it works for four

but not five or not 10, then maybe we

shouldn't do four.

>> Why is that? >> Well, because it's gonna it's the the the idea is not scalable to where you

get out of being the maintenance man.

>> You you you just have to keep absorbing Yeah. >> more work and more work and more work >> and pretty soon you're going to go, I want to quit my job and be Mr. Airbnb, >> right? >> And that's not scary. your one Airbnb app change or one Airbnb

municipality change or your one >> Yeah. >> Apple decides they're not going to support the app anymore. >> That's right. >> With 13 point whatever. Oh my crap. You

know, I mean all kinds of people. I mean it c that c that little move right there cost us about $20 million two years ago.

>> So uh you know that just cuz Apple decided to cough and so um you know all

that stuff. So that these are things you can't anticipate and you leave yourself vulnerable to it when you're just living

right on the wire when you're right on the edge and then you just keep adding to it. Keep adding to the plate till the food falls off, you know. And that's that's what I heard here as a really super busy guy. Well, >> ambitious guy. >> You said this and man, this has become increasingly um

I felt it heavier and heavier. I have a very real lived experience being in the workforce during 2008 2009 and there seems to be a lot of folks who have entered into 2010 to 2025 and it's been seemingly

mostly upside. It's just been win after win after win after win.

>> Plus or minus CO. Yeah. >> And yeah, plus or minus CO. And there's the assumption it's just gonna keep going that way. And there's no

man, it's tough to tell somebody, hey, you have to be prepared for when this thing goes south a little bit or when the roller coaster takes a, you know, goes down. And man, people don't don't have the psychology for it right now.

>> Yeah. I mean, if you've got your thing based on the Airbnb income of four and

suddenly they don't rent for four months, you're in bankruptcy.

Whereas if you own them all in cash, you're annoyed. >> Exactly. >> Or you put or you put renters in. >> Yeah. >> And you get out of the Airbnb business and you move on, you know, and that's it's not a big deal, >> right? >> You know, but yeah, this is it's a problem. Yeah. So, no, I'm um I I I like

James cuz he's ambitious and he's going after it. He's going for it. Um I want to support that, but I I believe in being a nightmare killer, not a dream killer.

Heat. Heat.

Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality, best-selling author, and uh, of course, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, which you need to tune in and check out on the Ramsey Networks.

Zachary is with us. He's in St. Louis.

Hi, Zachary. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

Well, I had a question for you. I'm actually a pastor over here at a small town church and I just want to say I very much appreciate all that you do.

Thank you. But one question that's come up for me is I often hear you use the phrase the borrower is slave to the lender. And I definitely agree with that principle in many ways. But then on the other end, I noticed that when it comes to a mortgage, you are okay borrowing in

that instance, which seems almost to betray that principle a little bit. And I guess I was just curious on your reasoning as to why you think it's okay to borrow in that instance, but then when it comes to something like a car, especially for someone like me, I live a little bit in the country where I'm at, so it's a little bit more difficult. A car is almost a requirement. Pastor, that is a wonderful question.

>> Yeah, >> it's a really good question. Of course, you're quoting the scriptures. Proverbs 22:7, the rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender. And this is a biblical principle um that we're violating when we say it's okay to

take out a mortgage. And that's your point. And you're you're correct completely on that. Um or when we tell people it's okay to do that. So, are you 26?

>> I'm actually like 31.

I had to think about that for a second. >> Okay, that's okay. Yeah, you lose count around 30. It happens. So,

yeah, I'm on the 34th anniversary of my 30th birthday, but the uh um All right.

The uh uh So, the answer to your

question is it is the only hypocritical

advice we give on this show.

It's the only thing that was hypocritical we give on this show. It's the only thing we tell people it's okay to do that I never do.

I went broke in my 20s as I was a baby Christian. I had just met God and I discovered in that process a guy teaching that what the Bible said about money named Larry Berquette and I said I'm going to follow what the Bible says I'm never borrowing money again. And I've never borrowed money again. I don't borrow money for anything ever for any reason under any circumstances.

Everything else I tell people on the show to do, I do exactly what I say to do. On allowing people to take out a mortgage without me yelling at them. Um, it's the only time that my advice is inconsistent with my life. Does that make sense, >> right?

>> And it's completely completely fair for you to call me out on it and then I'll answer your question. But I wanted to caveat that and say I don't borrow money for anything. And sometimes when I get a question where it's kind of borderline whether they have to borrow or not, I tell them that story. I say, "Hey, I don't borrow for anything." And I recommend that.

That is the best way.

if you follow biblical principles, you're going to in your marriage, your marriage is going to prosper. If you follow biblical principles raising your kids, your kids are going to be amazing.

If you follow biblical principles in your mental health and your emotional state, you're going to prosper. And the same's true in your money and in your leadership. If you're running a church, running a business, same thing's true.

So, I I evangelical, man, I believe if

the Bible says it and you do it, it's a good thing, right? So, I'm with you on that. Um, now, the reason that I lighten

up when someone calls in on that is two

things. One is I can pretty much talk you out of or call you stupid taking out a car loan because cars go down in value, the interest rate is higher, and there's no correlation between buying cars with payments and becoming wealthy.

Very few millionaires will tell you that, oh, the best thing I ever did was agree to borrow on a car because I needed a car because I was out in the country and I was driving a long way and I needed a car. No millionaires told us that when we studied 10,000 of them. So

the fruit is not there. I'm a fruit inspector. Okay. The second thing is

millionaires do tell us that they borrowed to buy a house many times and when they got it paid off they never borrowed money again after that. They're debt averse but not completely mortgage

averse. So the the data is in that millionaires do do that. Even though I would tell you the best way to do it is save up and pay cash for it. It's hard to get people to save up for 10 years to buy a house.

I can get them to save up three years to buy a car >> or to 18 months to buy a car, but I can't I've had trouble doing that. So, I make that violation. But I also often tell people all the time when I say that, uh, you know, no more than a 15-year mortgage, no more than a payment of a fourth of your take-home pay.

And, and then get the stupid house paid off as fast as you can because the shortest distance between where you are and wealth is debt freedom.

And that's consistent across the thing.

But you're exactly right. And but a car is a completely different thing. A car is the largest thing we buy that goes the wrong direction. It goes down in value. And when you finance a car, you're just begging to be middle class the rest of your life financially, mathematically.

>> Well, and most people are stupid enough to like take a car note on like a $30,000 car when they have no money either. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Like everybody listening right now just about.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> You're right.

I I did I I did have one other thing. And by the way, I want to say I I support everything you're doing wholeheartedly, including like I've been using myself many of these steps. Being a small town pastor, you don't get paid a ton of money and you have kids. And >> so I've actually had to use these things for myself.

So again, I want to say thank you.

So as someone who was new, I didn't have any money in my checking account, right?

Because I was using credit cards and then I was paying off those credit cards with the money in my account. So I never really had money in my account and I was in this endless cycle obviously like a lot of people were. So, one thing that I thought just to to consider is that in

those baby steps, I almost thought there should be another baby step about creating a buffer because people need two. They don't just need a $1,000 emergency fund. I thought that was the buffer. Whenever I was new to the Dave Ramsey program and the Dave Ramsey baby steps, but there's also this idea of making sure you have a buffer because you're going to have auto payments on preschool and mortgages and all types of stuff.

So, >> well, that should be part of your budgeting, Zachary. You should plan your you should it's budgeting is cash flow planning.

take more money out of your checking account than you have in it. That's your buffer. And uh you can put a $100 buffer in there if you want, but that's fine.

You don't need any more than that. There's nothing wrong with that. But you don't need a $2,000 buffer because you're uh incompetent at budgeting.

You need to have the budget date dialed in. We're paying the auto payment comes out here. This other payment comes out here. The paycheck planning aspect it's called. And if you use the Every Dollar app, shows you how to do that. And so, you need to plan out every situation there. But, hey, we're honored to have you as a new listener. >> I that is something that that um man, I

that rings home to me because here's what I fell in the trap of doing. My wife and I would make a budget and then we would check our checking account to

see where we were. Mhm.

>> We shouldn't do that because then I would make it I'd be like, "Oh, I can get a little more groceries." >> And then that >> Yeah, because the checking account is not an indicator if you're on your budget. >> That's exactly right. And so then that buffer he's talking about, then all of a sudden the school would pull their tuition on the fourth instead of the fifth. And because I was not following

the budget map we'd laid out, but I was checking the checking account part.

>> You would never A budget map is a plan.

And you would never plan to spend money that you don't have in your account. >> Exactly. Right. Yes. So don't plan to spend money you don't have in your account and your need for a buffer goes away other than a common sense of 50 or 100 bucks or something for slippage or little you know something being off 20 cents or something. You don't want to do that. We don't want to the penny thing but but this concept of slush >> right >> because that covers my lack of detail and sticking to the detail that that's

not you don't need slush. >> That's right. >> That's not good. But yeah and and a lot of people do that. So the trick is the thing that happens is your brain and you and I have been talking about this in a bunch of other areas too. Your brain rew the neuroplasticity your brain rewires itself when you start making every single dollar come out when it's supposed to. Give every dollar of your income a name before the month begins.

You and your spouse spit share spit shake and pinky swear that we're sticking to this contract that we just wrote down. something happens and changes from that chaotic wild man that you were before and you're you're re it takes about 90 days for that rewiring to completely occur and that neuroplasticity. It changes your behavior. It's behavior transformation and so the detail matters in that

situation because you're forcing your brain to work really hard. Yeah, that's what you want. This is the Ramsey Show.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 19:21.

Many plans are in a man's heart, but the council of the Lord will stand.

Henry Ford said, "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few ENGAGE IN IT.

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? I WASN'T.

That's good. I like it. Hey, selling or buying a house in this crazy real estate market right now is a wild thing to do.

You need a pro in your corner if you're going to buy or sell right now. Somebody who has actually done it before a lot.

That is a high octane, high protein, high performance real estate agent. If you want one of those, we have vetted thousands of agents around America. They are endorsed local providers. We call them Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

If you want to find out who we recommend and who we vet and who we coach and who follows the stuff we talk about and is really getting a lot of work done, they're not a beginner, go to ramsysolutions.com/agent and you can find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. Drew is with us

in Seattle. Hi Drew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey, good afternoon Dave, Dr. Deloney, thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey, quick question. Well, first off, the Bible verses you guys just spoke that um that was that was really speaking to I think my call. Um but I just had a question for you. Is it possible to be a successful businessman

but to also be a successful family man?

and and I can I can kind of uh refine that a little bit more and give you kind of my background of where I'm coming from. >> What would make you think that is not possible?

>> Well, well, right now I'm working I'm working with my wife um to try to come to a middle ground on on our on our side

business. Um and obviously so I heard

the last caller uh one of the guys was a pilot. I too am a pilot. Um I work for the major airlines. My wife is also a pilot and but a few years ago we started this uh this side business um that's been doing really well. Um and there's there's a lot of potential in it and and

but my we're we're coming to disagreements on if if we should really

be doing the side business. It's a it's a seasonal agricultural business. Um, and for the about two months that we that we operate, we're we're bringing in about 75,000 um, on average. And so, but there's there's a lot of potential for it. But but my wife's argument, because I want to give her side of the story, too, is that she doesn't like that the time it takes away from the family. So, we we've got two months a year.

>> Well, yeah. And I >> What do you What do you have to do on the other um 10 months?

Well, so there's there's a lot of planning and because we've so we've been in business for about four years.

There's, you know, the growing stages. I mean, it it it probably consumes my mind a little bit more than I should, which I've got I've gotten much better at not bringing it up at the dinner table because she's told me she's like, "Okay, I don't I want to hear about it." you know, and so and and I I kind of have this guilt for I'd say for about six months out of the year, you know, leading into the start of the season, you know, it it it's a little bit busier at home for me.

know, between family and because I'm an airline pilot, you know, it takes me away from home, which you know, I mean, that's already kind of uh that's already kind of hard on the family, but >> what do you make as a pilot? Um, well,

right now, yeah, I make about 120,000.

Next year, about 200,000 and then it just keeps going up. I I just started at the major airline. And so, and my wife, she brings in your children.

>> Um, we've got a 15-month-old, a 10-year-old, and then and then one on the way.

And so, my my wife's my wife's argument is we don't need the business. And and I agree with her. Like, it's not it's not needed. But, you know, I listen to the Entree Leadership podcast a lot and I just I have this desire like I love flying. It's something I've done for a long time, but I I get so much

fulfillment and joy out of, you know, running a business and, you know, figuring out solutions and making things better and, you know, I I just I enjoy that. I have a lot of friends that do it and it just it intrigues me. And so, >> what is the business? What are you what are you growing?

>> Um, so what we do is we do bird abatement for agriculture solutions. So people who own vineyards and and u different types of farms, they uh they'll hire us, they'll contract us out and we show up and we it sounds kind of funny, but we use model aircraft and we kind of play cat and mouse with the birds all day. >> And so we have a we have a team um generally about 15 people >> and so and we and we had an opportunity.

We passed up a a large um about a $900,000 contract in Arizona and rightfully so.

>> Yeah. You weren't you weren't prepared to take it on. >> All right. Let me let me tell you let me tell you what I'm hearing >> and let me talk back at you what you told me. >> You have a pregnant wife with a 15-month-old.

>> Mhm. >> Your house is insane.

>> Right. It's it's busy.

>> No, it's insane. I mean, it's it's chaos. >> Yeah. >> There are very small humans taking up

large amounts of calories from both of you. Yeah. >> And you're flying model airplanes at

Birds, >> right? >> Right. And she's over it. She's over it.

She's She's She's got her gut full, man.

So, it's not that a businessman can't be

a good family man. It's that the timing of your side business given the stage of your family sucks.

>> Right. Right. >> You got a lot of crap at home. if she was sitting with two kids in in elementary school >> and and they were somewhat able to dress themselves and go to the bathroom by themselves and stuff like that, right?

>> Then it's a whole different world. I mean, I got I got grandbabies at this stage. When we keep them, it's a dad gum chore.

>> Yeah. >> And I love them. I love them, but it's like work and stuff, >> you know? I mean, well, and so the last two years, so because we, you know, we came up with a compromise and so we started hiring managers and so last year we tried it out. Um, it worked pretty well. And then this year, we pretty much had the managers run the whole operation. And I mean, they did a much better job than I thought it was going to be. And so I I mean, and the thing

about being an airline pilot, it's like I do most of my administrative work, my computer work, like when I'm gone. That's that's one nice thing. It's like I I'm sitting at a hotel. It's like I'm going to get this done. So when I'm when I'm home, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to focus so much. That's not the point. That's not the point, Drew. Drew, your wife is asking one question.

>> Do you love me as much as a side hustle?

>> And I'm going crazy right now. And I need your help.

>> Right. No, I do love my wife.

>> I know you do. I know you do. But >> she's asking you that >> you're trying to show her how much you love her by creating a business and creating extra money and extra margin.

And she is saying, "Do you love me?"

Right. >> And Dave and I are both I mean, you're not going to meet two guys who like working. I think both of us love work.

>> But hear Dave say there's a season to this. It's the winter time and you're like, "Look at these cool shorts I just made." And she's like, "They're great." But it's freezing outside.

>> Yeah. I got a 15-month-old. I got a baby on the way. >> And by the way, all of this spells hormones. Did you know that?

>> Yeah. We've been we've been working through the quite a bit of >> post postpartum. >> Yeah. I mean that's normal. It's not it's not not bad. It's just life.

>> Yeah. She misses you, man. >> Yeah. You need to be there hugging babies, changing diapers, not flying birds.

>> Yeah. >> Not right now.

>> I mean, I want you I want you to run your own business, Drew, but you ask us a question. And the question is, yes, you can be a successful businessman and a family man, but the spouse has to be

able to carry whatever weight that you're not carrying. And you're asking her to carry more than she's willing to carry right now. And I don't think she's being unreasonable. Little babies and a house full of kiddos is chaos >> on top of a $200,000 a year salary. And

>> and she's flying >> and so and her 80 who's saying so about 300 grand they're going to be making next year. And the question that she's asking was question my wife asked, "When is enough enough?" >> Yeah. I In other words, she's saying, "For $75,000 a year, I'd rather have your help. >> I'd rather have you." Yes.

>> I'd rather have your help right now.

>> Right now. >> And and it might not that might I'm telling you, you might be three, four years and you you can either restart this or take back over some of the management. You got to but you got to offload all of it or most of it to be able to

manage your help manage your house right now. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. You're working two full-time jobs and you've got chaos at home.

>> And your wife has a full-time job.

>> Yeah. Oh, by the way. Yeah. Wow.

Three full-time jobs, >> right? >> So, you you're not a bad guy. You're just your timing sucks. >> Yes.

And it's kind of a deceptive question. Yes, you can be a man. Yes, you can run a successful business and be a good family man. You can't do 50 things at once.

>> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 82. Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later | January 6, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Jay Washaw, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today and Ramsay personality.

And today is a big deal around Ramsay.

Happy New Year to everybody. And this is also the day that Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is officially here.

>> Here it is. It's here. I'm holding it.

It's real. And uh you can order it and it will be sent to you post haste. Uh it is an incredible book. If you've never ever known what to do with your money but couldn't follow through, it's not a discipline problem. Your emotions are getting in the way. Frustration, fear, shame, all of that shows up in how we handle our money. And Jade, you cover every bit of that here. >> I do. I do in great detail and with much story elements involved. So, it's not a boring read, Dave.

>> No, I I read a book uh over the holidays that had no story >> and I felt like I was back in college.

It was work. >> It's like a lesson. I got it and it was

good. The information was good, but it I had to work at it a little more because there was no humor and there was no story. >> No, when there's story there's one joke in the whole book. >> I need a joke. >> When a story you see yourself in it, you've lived it. You're like, "Oh, yeah.

I've done that before. I've been there before. I know what that feels like." And it it makes it easier to digest and put into action. >> Well, and to go with the stories, of course, is the um the the detailed plan

of how to address that emotions are real. Personal finance is 80% behavior.

It's only 20% head knowledge. The problem with your money is most likely in your mirror.

>> It is in your mirror.

>> It's in my mirror. >> Yes, it's in mine, too. It is in mine,

too. But this book is going to give you It's like a It's a It's very prescriptive, Dave. It's a diagnostic.

So, if you're like, "What is my problem?

What is my log jam?" We are going to figure out what it is together.

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>> Hey. So, I have a question. My husband and I lived in our home for 15 years. We

um we had an interest rate of 2.7%.

Um our mortgage payment was $1,800.

we decided to jump to a different neighborhood because our neighborhood had been changing um a good bit in um

terms of a variety of different things.

Um not going the right direction and we

jumped on a new home on a different house. It's an older home. It needs some work. Um, we now have a almost $4,000 a

month um, mortgage payment, 6% interest rate, and we did not really sit down and

do our homework and the house really doesn't meet our functional needs. you have two people who work um corporate out of the home um every day and we're

missing some functional space. And I kind of freaked out because our other home more than met our needs for long term and um my husband got angry and

basically said, "You need to leave. I'm

so angry with you over this." And um

he's like, "If you don't leave, then I'm going to leave >> about the house." He's angry with you about the house.

>> Yes. >> Cuz it was your idea.

>> Yes. And so then we rented another home

in the area because we're bound to this area for schools for our daughter.

>> Okay. And um so now that's a $2750

like uh rent payment and I still haven't moved in there and I called the lady and she will let me out. So I've only paid

two months and I haven't moved in because I need his help because I can't move a bed etc by myself. And so my

question is how long you been married?

We've been married like almost 23 years

and we have no car loans. We have maybe

$1,000 on a credit card. We have no other debt. We've always been >> But this isn't about This isn't about the debt. It can't be. And it's not about the house. That That may have been

a catalyst. >> We bought a house together. How did it end up being your fault? Mhm.

>> Um I don't know because um I think

because for a long time I had asked to move just because of things that had happened in our original neighborhood

and this this was just a bad choice uh financially. It's the wrong house. We should have just stayed where we were to get our daughter through, you know, her last two years of school. But now we have this mortgage payment that's more and now we have a rent. >> I got all that. I got all that. You know what? I don't give a crap about your house. >> Okay? >> I don't know what Stop stop.

Okay. I don't care about your house. The only thing I want to save is your marriage.

>> Okay. >> Well, I do, too. But >> that's it. That's more important. No, no, no. That's more important than a house.

>> He said, "If you don't leave, I'm leaving." >> Yeah. And so >> So, what do you need is a marriage counselor, right?

Well, we started with one and then we've been paying her and then come um she's out of network but which is fine.

>> What is your household income find out?

>> Um I make like 180 and he makes 250.

>> Okay. Don't talk to me about network and marriage counselors.

Okay. You pay the freaking marriage counselor. It's the first thing you do.

and both of you spend every day with them until you get this figured out.

Because if you don't get your marriage straightened out, you're going to go bankrupt because you guys are making stupid butt choices left and right based on a broken marriage, not based on anything else, >> right? >> So, the sol the solution is a healing in

your relationship and then we together then can decide how we're going to move forward. Um, if you lost the house and

moved into an apartment, both of you together, and the lady with the rent sued you, I'd be okay if it saved your marriage.

>> Well, there's I mean, there's no apartments in the area we live in. We have >> Stop. >> Confined. >> Stop. >> We're confined to an area for >> Quit Quit coming up with this. Okay. My point is that you're putting the house

story at the front of the story. It's at

the back of the story. The front of the story is you and your husband.

If you solve that, you'll find a solution to the other things. There may be some pain involved based on some of the stupid stuff y'all have done lately, but it's very possible.

You left a house that your daughter was in good schools. You can find a house that your daughter was in good schools and you can find something to do. But 23

years worth of marriage and a little girl are at stake, not a stupid house.

I couldn't give a crap less about the house. For that matter, before I worry about your daughter's school, I'm going

to save your marriage. She'll survive

somewhere else. Teenagers do it all the time. pick her little butt up and move her if it saves your marriage.

So, you've got to get these things in the right order here and quit creating these things where you're boxed in.

You're not boxed in. You got choices.

But it starts and ends in the marriage counselor's office right now, today. And yes, you can freaking afford at $300,000 a year.

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Emily is in Cincinnati. Hi Emily. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I work for a large insurance company and they have always offered to give me a corporate credit card and I've always declined and I've paid for company expenses using my debit card and gotten reimbursed. However, my role has changed. I'm going to be accumulating more expenses and I've started asking more questions about the corporate card.

They say that it won't affect my credit.

Um, but I'm just feeling a little conflicted about having a credit card in my wallet. Uh, I don't use credit. um

even if I'm just an authorized user on the corporate account. And so I just kind of wanted to know what your thoughts were on that.

>> What type of card is it?

>> I have no idea. Um >> you don't know if it's an MX. You don't know if it's an MX, do you?

>> I don't. >> Okay. If it's American Express, do not sign it. >> Okay. >> Their agreement will hold you liable.

They are they are sharks.

>> Okay. If it is a standard Visa or

Mastercard, um you're not liable by becoming an authorized user. And technically, it's

not supposed to report on your credit bureau, but often it gets screwed up and

they report on authorized users.

Okay? >> So, if they don't pay the bill on time, it may show up on your credit bureau report. If it ever does, pull your credit bureau report once a year. Everybody ought to do that anyway. and if it ever does, check it and um have

dispute it and have it removed because you're not liable on the card if it's a standard Mastercard unless you sign the bank documents and say I'm liable.

Authorized user does not make you liable.

>> Okay, perfect. Well, that's helpful. I've never used a credit card. I've followed your stuff for years, so I really appreciate it.

>> Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I I but I I you know be prepared if it's a VA Mastercard or Visa for it to actually pop onto your credit bureau report which I've never really understood but it does happen.

>> Well, let's talk about from the other way. Let's suppose it is a M Ax. What's the conversation that you would have with the employer? >> I wouldn't do it.

I I'm not signing that. >> Mhm. >> Um I might have to figure out some other workaround. They either need to get me a different card or whatever.

But that I have had way too many customers over the years that were in deep stuff because some company went bankrupt >> and then Ammex starts calling them wanting their money. >> And I also wouldn't want to put it on my personal debit card because >> Well, that's a problem. That's a problem, too. If they don't get, you know, if they don't get reimbured, that's a problem, especially if it's starting to be a lot of money like you said.

>> Yeah. That messes with your own cash flow. >> Yeah. You just got to make your choices through all that.

But, um, I'd stay away from an MX corporate card. They are they're bad bad juice.

other's okay. It's not your card. You're not liable for it. You're just using someone. It's like going to dinner with somebody that has a credit card and they bought your dinner. You know, I mean, that's all it is. It's except you can sign for it. That's the only difference.

But um, yeah, you can do that.

Um, and uh, uh, you know, but I suspect

they have that. I guess another workaround could be what we have. We have corporate debit cards.

>> Yeah. So, like you travel, you have a debit card. You have a Ramsey debit card. Okay.

>> And so, uh, we don't ask our people that travel to use their money and get reimbured. We pay for their travel. So, if you're on the road doing a media hit in New York City or something and you're up there doing Fox and that kind of stuff, then the hotel and all that junk, whatever it is, car service is all on us. And, and you know, you just only use it for business things.

You don't you don't go buy yourself something on it, you know. >> Yeah. you still submit your receipts and everything is still it's the same >> same as having a company credit card but there's no possibility of liability >> um cuz you're you are an authorized user but that's that's the same thing >> they could issue that >> if they have MX they could issue a company debit card if they really want to go crazy >> um for her on a Mastercard or a Visa platform and she'd be just fine with that. >> Okay, taking it a level deeper.

goes to this. I agree with everything we're saying. How much does that make her uh does that make her a difficult employee by going to the employer?

>> Her attitude I think her attitude about it is that okay. Yeah.

>> Is what makes her difficult. It's like guys >> I'm just worried about this. Help me.

>> Mhm. >> Instead of like I demand >> there we go. >> You know it's like you know you want to I demand something you can demand somewhere else over here. Okay.

We don't do that. But uh but instead you go hey help me with this. I'm struggling with this. I don't agree with this.

I'm I don't want to be liable and I understand with MX I would be and and you can pull up, by the way, folks, you can pull up the MX thing online. It's not hard to pull it up.

That's >> help me with this and I'm scared.

>> Yes. >> Thing, wow, >> I don't believe in debt. Debt's wrong. Debt's like >> Yeah.

I don't want to be in debt accidentally. >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. >> Okay.

And just having a credit card kind of creeps me out, but I can do it if this is the way it was done and I'll be okay. M but I just I just want to talk this through and I don't want to be difficult. I don't want to be a problem. Somebody has that conversation once or twice with us on something, we'd be going, "Okay, sure." >> Yeah.

How can you be mad? >> You know, but if uh but if they come back like 17 times, then it start even if they're nice, it starts to be, "Yeah, you're not listening." You know, >> so we're not doing this, you know. So, but that you know, there's a thing somewhere in there. But yeah, I I >> I mean, most employers now again, >> you could be in a toxic work environment.

They could use this against you, but that's not it's not the actual situation that's going to get used against you. It's actually the problem people >> is what's going on there. Aby's in Nashville. Hey, Abby.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. I just have a question. Um my husband and I were 24. We built our house about a year and a half ago. So, um our only debt is our mortgage. We've followed your stuff since before we were married. And um I just we're kind of on two different pages as far as um paying extra on our house. I am just the mindset of well this is our only debt.

Let's just knock it out as quickly as we can. Um whereas he has a pretty specific

number in his head as far as like liquid in the bank that he would like to keep.

>> Um >> wait a minute wait a minute. I'm sorry.

Liquid in the bank in addition to the emergency fund.

>> Yes. >> Okay. The part where you followed our stuff, you just left.

>> Wait, what? >> I said the part you said you follow our stuff. >> Well, when you say liquid, is it just savings? >> What's $100,000 in a savings account?

>> Um, well, we have we own our own business, so we have a few different accounts. We have like a a business um

checking account, a savings account, and then like a regular checking account where like all of our stuff like daytoday. >> Okay. So, what is the amount he's got in his head?

>> Uh, he doesn't want to get under $100,000.

>> How big is the business? What kind of gross revenue is it doing annually?

>> Um, for the last year we were just under

100. This year we're on track for I'll be real in 2025. Okay. I was talking about 2024 was under 100. 2025 we have

not finished our taxes yet. The first two quarters he was at 120.

>> Okay. G gross revenue.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, $250,000 gross. All right. And what are you going to net on the business, do you think?

>> Honestly, I it I don't I would undershoot it and say

Oh gosh, I don't even know. He is maybeundred and >> Okay, so maybe he's making $100,000 a year. What do you make? >> We'll just say that. Yeah. Oh, I've worked part-time since we had our baby.

So, I'm a cosmetologist. This year I'm on track for like 25 or 30.

>> Your emergency fund should be 3 to 6 months of expenses.

>> Your personal checking account or $3,000

float in there is enough.

>> Okay, that's what we have right now.

>> Okay. In the business itself, in the business itself, >> the most you would ever need >> is 6 months to a year of expenses.

>> Okay. >> And so his number is a little high. His number is a little high. Um, what I would recommend he do is this, and this is what we recommend to the Entree Leadership team that we we we coach about 10,000 small businesses. Okay?

Okay. >> And it's also what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of our net profits

each month and add to our retained

earnings, our savings in the business.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And so, let's say you made $10,000 a month and you said, "I'm going to put 10% away." That' be I'm going to put $1,000 in there. If I made 20,000, I'm

going to put 2,000. Whatever it is, I'm going to take a percentage of it.

>> The rest of it I'm bringing home, and

then I get to decide if I want to pay down on my house. >> Mhm. >> But you you need to keep the business savings and and retained earnings separate in your minds from your baby step six. >> That also being said, now's baby step

six is baby step six. It's not baby step two. So you wanting to go hard in the paint as if it were to, you're not fully >> Yeah. >> fair on that either. So some of that money can go towards >> other fun stuff, >> growing the business and other things. Yeah. Exactly.

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Amanda is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Amanda.

How are you?

>> I am also better than I deserve. Thank you. >> Good. How can we help?

So, I'm calling for some guidance on what to do about um some student loans. Uh one of which

my mom took out in my name without me knowing >> who got the use of the money.

>> I don't know. So, that's the other thing I need help with.

>> What's Who's the option? Would it have been for you or for a sibling or for her for a sibling? For >> buy a car with it, go to Europe.

I don't think she bought a car or went to Europe and um she didn't spend it on a sibling, but I'm trying to make sense of the numbers. So, the first loan that I did know about um which for 20,000, >> but I recall that my tuition was only

about 17 for that year.

>> And so there's an extra $3,000. Mhm.

>> Um and I kind of brushed it off thinking, "Oh, maybe she used that for, you know, my living expenses." Well, I learned um right before Christmas that she took out a second $20,000 loan.

And there's no way that my living

expenses were $20,000 for that year. Um

because the only thing she was paying was my rent for a very shabby place that

was shared with 10 girls.

>> Okay. How old is How old are you?

>> Um 23.

>> So when was this all done? Two or three years ago. >> Yes. My Yeah. My last year, which was two years ago. >> Okay. So you're out now out of school and you've got a job, right?

>> Yes. >> What do you make? What do you make? 48

plus a couple thousand extra for stipens. >> Okay. And then there's $40,000 worth two two $20,000 loans that you did not sign for. She fraudulently signed your name.

>> Um the first one I agreed to. So I

wouldn't say that's fraudulent. I It was I didn't want to. >> It is fraudulent, but you agreed to it.

Okay. >> It's just the 3000. You don't know what happened to that 3K. >> If you didn't sign it and someone else signs your name, that's called fraud.

Well, I think I I remember signing something and it was with my school. My >> And your mother did not take the loan out. You did.

>> Yeah. You took it. You just don't know what happened to the 3,000. Tell us about the second $20,000 loan.

>> So, yes, I'm okay. I made peace with the first one. It was against my better judgment, but I've learned that that was my fault and I've been attacking that, killing it. The second one is what has

me upset and angry and confused. And so

that total is 20 just over 21,000

because some interest has occurred. >> Have you seen the promisory note?

Because you can go back and see who signed it.

>> No. So should I ask that company for it?

>> Um well let's stop. Let's go back a minute. I want to go back. I want to go back to Christmas for a second. So how this conversation sound?

>> We have not had a conversation about a word. >> How did you find out about it? because uh my bank like has a credit alert,

credit score alert, and >> it popped up that my credit had gone down. And I didn't even know I had a credit score because I have no other debt. And the first loan is just through my college, which is not a does not take federal money. >> Doesn't matter if it takes federal money. They still report it. >> Still on your credit. >> No, it's not. That one's not showing up.

The one that I knew about was my college. So, >> so it pops up and you found it there.

And you you didn't say anything to your mother?

>> No. >> Why?

>> Because she were not on the best terms.

I feel like she would just lie or cry about it. She kind of lied to my dad about it when I asked him about it. She was like, "Oh, yeah. I wondered about that. I don't know why >> I've been paying it." Well, she hasn't paid a dollar on it. So, if I confronted her, >> is your dad and mom married?

>> No, they've recently divorced, which is kind of what started this all off.

>> I see.

Okay. All right. Well, there's two options.

All right. And neither one of them are pretty. I'm sorry.

Okay. One is uh you get in touch with

the servicing company that's servicing the student loan and you turn it over as

um identity theft.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That someone stole my identity and opened a student loan in my name and that someone happens to sadly be my mother and I did not sign this debt. You're very sure you did not sign that one, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, that would entail taking out a police report and reporting her to law enforcement for being a criminal

>> because she is, by the way, a criminal.

>> Okay? Stealing money using my taxpayer

dollars. I'm the one freaking paying this. Okay? Pisses me off cuz your

mother's scummy.

She's a criminal. So, you got to put her in that bucket. and then file a police report. The second option is equally as ugly.

Shut up and pay it.

I don't like either one of them. Do you?

>> No, not at all.

>> I'm sorry, but this is what happens, you

know, with this ridiculous student loan program that we have now. So, if you want to dig into it, you can spend a lot of energy and calories and figure out who signed it. but someone signed it.

And you're either going to see your little signature there and you forgot about it, or you're going to see the criminal's signature there that looks suspiciously like your mother's handwriting.

>> And then you get to still make this exact same decision. Either way, you get to make this decision.

Before I reported her to the police, I'd be very, very sure that you didn't sign it, though. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know that they'll put her in jail. I doubt it. I I wish they would

put some people in jail for doing this kind of crap. Particularly people who steal their own children's identity.

>> It's really bad >> for their own personal benefit some kind and then cry about it.

Yeah. I robbed a bank. I'm going to cry about it. I'm so sorry. I don't want to

go to jail. I robbed a bank. Oh my god.

>> I mean, it's true. It's true, Amanda. It sounds like you're kind of used to this type of behavior. >> Yeah. Like your mother's nuts. >> Like this is a pattern. It's not just one event that's taking place. and we're here to tell you that this is really bad. >> I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry that you're having to face this at 23 freaking years old and decide

what you're doing. Um I can tell you this, okay? Um if you want to dig into it, you decide to pay it. Um cuz I got a feeling that's what you're going to do.

Not sure it's what I would do, but I've got a feeling that's what you're going to do. And I'm not judging you either way because neither one of these are good options. I'm telling you that.

again.

Go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. I'm going to send your butt straight to jail." Now, you'll be a little bit nicer than that, but not much. I was going to say, I don't know if you'd be >> I'm gonna set the table, okay, to where

this never happens again because it's cost you $21,000 to deal with your family dysfunction if you decide to pay it. You don't have to pay it if you didn't sign it. You are not liable for something you didn't sign. >> Your parents do not have power of attorney over you because they bred you.

>> That is not how the legal system works.

Okay? And so unless you have signed a power of attorney, they cannot sign your name. Period.

>> And saying something firm is not mean.

You know what I'm saying? >> I know. But I was being pretty I was being pretty sarcastic and crazy there.

But >> listen, I don't know. I think >> I'm going to be very very clear. Very clear. Very clear. If you ever >> use my name again, >> go to jail. Mom, >> I'm not going to screw around. You do.

You stay away from me.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You got to lay down the >> This $21,000 is going to cost you. Yeah,

>> I wish they would try it. Wow, that's different. >> See, the ones that get me to are the I mean, people with 12 years old, they took out a credit card on a 12-y old.

>> Yes. $20,000 on a 12-year-old ruining.

You got to haul your butt to jail for doing that >> and just sit it over there.

>> Just sit over there in the jail. That's where you ought to be cuz you're stealing money and you're using your own child to do it. What a scumber.

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Cynthia is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Cynthia. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I make $94,000 before taxes. >> Good for you. What do you do?

>> I'm a engine builder for the military.

>> Very cool. Good for you. Good. Good. So, you're in the military or you just work civilian for the military? >> I work at I work in another place and I

just only do military engines and

>> Cool. Okay. Good. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm like $32,000 in debt.

>> Mhm.

>> And I got my home is paid for and I got

a paid for Jeep Wrangler, but I bought

another car just to drive back and forth to work to save money. But I got like a

lot of zip, Afterpay, PayPal. You know

how you just don't want to spend your money. Mhm. >> And I got a personal loan and I just want to know what's the fastest way because at my job I'm already doing like 16% in my 401k.

>> Mhm.

>> So I I have a feeling do you have a stack of money saved somewhere? Do you have money saved?

>> I I did but I don't know more cuz after

my son passed away I just went on a spending spree.

>> And when did he pass away?

2018.

>> Okay. >> So, you said you've got a bunch of >> So, did you borrow money for the car that was cheaper in quotes?

>> Well, I got like a $7,000 car loan. I left owing $7,000 on it now. I Everything is current, but it's just like I'm throwing my money away. I don't know where my money go.

>> Half of the time I be like, >> I make good money. >> Yeah, you do make good money. You make way too much money. Be this broken out of control. Yes. >> But your heart But your heart was broken.

>> Yeah. I'm out of control, babe. I need help. >> Okay. >> Because I buy like500 $600 worth of clothes a week. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. >> Yeah. My My dad used to say that half of solving a problem is realizing there is one. Cynthia, I think you realized it.

>> Yeah. >> Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired yet?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Enough to change?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Cuz I think you can. You make enough money to straighten this out as soon as we straighten you out, right?

>> Yeah. >> Have you looked at how much it is when you combine it all together? All the the buy now pay laters and the personal loans, all that. How much is it?

>> Yeah. Like um I got I I got them wrote

down in a tablet at home. Mhm.

>> And so I got like I came over y'all came

I saw y'all like on New Year's the day

before New Year's >> and I just went to write down everything that I had. >> Good. >> And I was like I'm going to get my life together. >> Good. Good. >> And >> I won't go I went I came to the store to

return some stuff. >> Okay. >> And I was like just put the money back on my debit card. And um my friend said,

"This the first time I ever seen you go in the store and come out without nothing in your hands." I said, "I'm on a budget. I can't do it no more." >> Okay. So, you created Did you create a budget or are you just saying you're on a budget? >> No, I created a budget.

>> Good. Yeah.

>> Did you do it on every dollar?

>> I That's where I did it at.

>> Great. >> All right. >> What did you find? Did you did you find Tell us what you found. >> That I was like having like I got $3,600

like um into debt, but I have like

$2,200 left. And I was like, "Where that money at?" And >> okay, >> my friend was like, "Look on the floor.

You got shoes stacked up to the ceiling.

You don't even put on your feet. Look in your closet. You wear your clothes one time and give them away." >> That's a friend. That's a true friend to tell you the truth. So you got $2,000 of margin every single month and it's just going to >> crap >> crap basically. >> Yeah. And so >> and did I hear you say it's only $3,600 of debt? >> No. 32,000. >> No, I got $32,000 but like when I pay my stuff off a month

>> I have like that left. But I increased I

was at work.

>> You're not married, right?

>> No. >> Okay. What I want you to do is I want you to keep this Every Dollar app. And I want you to give your friend access to the Every Dollar app to be your accountability partner. >> Yes. Cuz she's a good friend. >> And tell her to bust you if you don't do

anything except get out of debt. No

buying nothing. Cynthia, you have enough crap to last you for the rest of your life. >> Yes. If you if you don't do anything except pay rent, work, eat, keep the

lights on, you can be out of debt in no time. >> Well, you don't even have rent to pay. >> Pay for That's right. That's Oh, come I forgot that. >> So, how much you when you look at your budget, how much can you put towards debt every single month? How much extra?

>> Well, I had Well, I got like a $10,000 check coming on tomorrow.

>> Okay, great. And so I said that I was going to take that and start well I got my $1,000 um >> emergency fund >> and then I said with that $10,000 I was going to take that cuz I got like $2,000 of back home taxes and I need to just go on and pay that $2,000

>> and then just go on and start paying all my credit cards off the smallest to the Lord. >> That's right. That's right. So, the other 8,000 goes to that. And then if you just continue to take I think I heard you say you had $2,000 in margin every month. If you take that, I mean, you're going to be done with this by the end of the year.

>> That what I wanted to hear. Okay.

>> Or sooner. >> Or sooner. If you get intense about it, cuz something tells me you do have more margin. >> Shoes and purses. Why don't you put them on eBay?

>> That's what somebody else said. Instead of giving them away. >> Yeah, cuz it's brand new basically.

>> Yeah. Let's put them on eBay. People buy this stuff, man. They'll pay big money for it. Yeah, cuz she's this is not uh this >> not cheap stuff. This girl buys good stuff. I can tell. Yeah, >> I think there's a name brand laying there in your floor. >> Oh, yeah. Put that on Poshmark. Put that Put that on the nice places.

>> Okay. Posh Poshmark is eBay. What?

>> Poshmark. Yeah. This where you get the nice high-end stuff. >> Oh, used. Yeah. >> Okay, cool. All right. There you go.

See, I don't know this because I don't do that, but Yeah. Good. Very good. Hey, Cynthia, >> I think you already had a pretty good plan before you called us.

Okay. >> You were working the stuff we teach exactly the way we teach. Everything we asked you, you answered the way we would have told you to do it. I'm very impressed with you.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. Now, do it. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Be, you know, act like your friend's standing in your back pocket and say, "No screwing around. Time to be a grown-up. >> No buying stuff. Don't be walking. Don't even go in a store. Drunks don't need to go in a bar." >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, just stay out of the store.

You don't need to go there and don't get on some website unless you're selling something. >> All you need to do is sell stuff and work. >> Can I give her my book yet? Can I give her my book?

Absolutely. You're the prime candidate cuz your emotions are were were driving you and this will just help you stay motivated even more going into the new year. Um, so Christians back there, he'll pick up and and give it to you. I think you're the first first person I've given this book.

>> That's good. Very good. Hey, and Cynthia, listen. Here's the deal.

spending mistakes, >> that doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that your heart was hurting.

>> You're okay. You're okay.

But don't live but don't live the rest of your life this way for for your sake.

Okay.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. But you didn't do a bad thing. You just you just heart was broken. Okay.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Just go on and now let's go win.

Mhm. >> Let's get get this mess straightened up.

And in his memory, um, instead of having

a pile of shoes, let's have a pile of money >> and get this thing worked out.

>> Y, >> that's a different change on that. Yeah.

>> Cuz I got to tell you, the number of times that um, >> emotions, just like your book, >> activate >> and and sometimes it's a broken heart.

Yes. >> Um, grieving. >> Yes. >> The loss of a loved one, the loss of a

relationship, the loss of a job.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh it sometimes it takes people a while depending on the uh severity and the weirdness of the situation. Takes longer than others.

But the good, you know, the good news is something happened >> around New Year's for Cynthia >> clicked into place >> and she woke up and thank God something popped up on Instagram and it was us instead of one of these goobers >> that are just telling, you know, Sofi telling you go in debt or something, right? >> And she did everything. She'd already started doing it all. >> Yeah.

>> It's very very good.

>> Take those moments and run with them.

>> Amen. I call that a God moment is what I call it. >> Well done, Cynthia. You call us back anytime, honey. We're here to help you.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Wshaw, number one best-selling author, Ramsay Personality, is my co-host today.

Her new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is out. It's official. You

can get it now. We've been pre-selling it back through Christmas and everything. And now we are here and rocking and it's going out the door. There's a stack of them on the table a minute ago. She's signing them over here, getting them ready to go out to folks. >> All kinds of good things happening.

Jamie is in Tennessee. Hi, Jamie. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are you doing?

better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. Uh just to make my question, I guess shorter. Um what I'm asking is should debt keep me from getting married. Um so I am currently on baby step number three. Me and my boyfriend have been dating for about a year, couple months now, and we are very serious about um marriage. Um he

unfortunately does have about $8,000 in debt. And as we're talking about a wedding and engagement and all these things, we're just trying to make sure that we're making a good financial decision. >> Um, so just trying to hear y'all's opinion on that. >> Yeah, I definitely would not say that debt should keep you from getting married.

However, going forward, there are some things that you can do to position yourself better. number one, making sure you're having a conversation about >> not just the debt and the the the current financial situation for both of you, but how you see yourselves going forward in the marriage to to start getting on the same page if you're not already. So, >> okay, >> what does that look? Have you had that conversation of, hey, when we get married, here's the way I view debt.

How do you view debt? Here's what I think I'd like to focus on.

Have you had those conversations?

>> Yes, we have. Um, and I will say, um,

this past year has been a tough year for him cuz he had an injury and then ended up losing his job. So, those conversations were easier before all of that happened. And since all of that has happened, I'm which I understand he's become a little bit more reserved and didn't doesn't want to talk about it as much. But I guess from my perspective, I'm like, well, I need to make sure that we're entering into this on the same page any time.

>> Very wise. How old are you?

I am 28. >> Good. Very good. Okay. >> He's probably feeling some type of way.

You know, when you've lost your job, his confidence is not quite right. Um, and so it's probably defensiveness.

>> But as far as the answer to your question, you're right on track, Jamie.

You'd have to be aligned. And here's why. The data tells us that the number one cause of divorce is money fights and

money problems. And if we know that going in, then we need to what? Avoid

money fights. >> Correct. and money problems. And what's that mean? It means we need to be aligned, which was the word you used.

Okay. It's a good word, Jamie. Very good word. And so, we need to be in agreement about how we're going to handle our money. So, the fact that he has some debt doesn't bother me. If he thinks every time there's a bump in the road, >> every time we hit a pothole, every time things are stressful, we're going to go into debt. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

We're going to find another we're going to find another solution. Okay? or or that we're going to shut down and not talk about it if we hit a hard time, which is kind of what you're experiencing now. >> Yeah. So, we need to get aligned. And, you know, I the other thing we found is there's another piece of data I saw the other day that said those that do indepth uh like a month or two, several meetings

of in-depth pre-marriage counseling have

a very high probability of a successful marriage. Does not end divorce. >> Okay? because good marriage counseling will cause the divorce before the marriage happens.

>> Okay? >> It'll cause you to split up if you can't get on the same page. >> And so going deep and going hard on that that that would dig out all of this and be on the same page. And one other thing just to throw in there, it's in the same data set that's out there floating around that we've been observing for about 30 years. And you're very wise.

The way you're talking about this is proper. Okay. You got a very good balanced handle on it. And um >> thank you. the uh is if you can agree on

four things before you're married in depth, your marriage is almost guaranteed to make it. And that's money, that's kids, how many to have, and who, you know, who's going to run the house, whether the inmates are going to run the asylum or not, right? And uh it's uh

in-laws, how we going to deal with the crazies on the outside of the house that are kin to us. Okay? And religion.

And if you're agreed on all four of those in depth, you almost always will

make it.

>> Okay. Can I also ask um Dave, I guess from a male's perspective as well, um how do I go about having these conversations with him right now? Um >> just like that. Just like that. data say data says that when if we can be in agreement on the handling of our money and that's going to require us talking about it then u then we're going to have

a great marriage.

The data says that and I want to align with that so that we can talk about setting a date and let's get this done.

I'm ready, man. And no, $8,000 is not a

reason to not marry the guy. I don't ever want to talk to you about money the rest of my life. Shut up. That's a good reason to not marry a guy.

I'm too lazy to work. That's a good reason to not marry a guy. Um, I intend to buy a new car every year and stay in debt the rest of our lives and you hate debt. That's a good reason to not marry a guy because you're going to be miserable, right?

>> Yeah, that that is a guy thing in a lot of in a lot of cases, but it also is a thing to figure out now. and and you will and you will figure it out. It's just figuring it out. >> Yeah.

I I think but you're asking the right questions. But no, we have never told someone to not get married because of debt. We have told people not to get married because of what was going on that caused the debt, >> right? Behavior, >> the character, the behavior, the whatever is going on.

>> But it's not just Dave Ramsey hates debt and you can't get married because Dave Ramsey said you can't get married. has never happened here ever in 40 years of doing this show and nor will it.

>> All right, Jake is with us in Baltimore.

Hey Jake, what's up?

>> Hey Dave. Um, God is good. Um, I hope you're doing well. How can we help?

>> Um, yeah. So, I'm 26. I'm married. We're

debtree. So, praise God for that. Um, >> my wife and I both work right now. Um, and we want to buy a home that we can comfortably afford on my income alone.

Um, since our plan is for her to stay home in the future, um, while we build a family, Lord willing. >> What do you make? >> Um, but in my area, it seems like pricing homes is so high. Um, I make

75,000. Um, yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, Baltimore is an expensive market, dude.

>> Um, >> I know. What do you do for a living? So the reason that we want to stay around, >> I'm not saying you can't stay. I'm just saying you got to decide what's going to happen here. Okay? We want to buy a home

>> on my income, but there are no homes in my area that we can buy on my income.

>> Mhm. That leaves you two choices.

>> Get your income up or be in another area. >> Or do something dumb and buy something more more expensive than you can afford.

>> Well, or buy something where she's planned to work. Mhm. >> You know, lots of people do that and you just, you know, we don't What's What does she make?

>> Um, she makes about the same as me. So, together we make about 150 or so.

>> Okay. So, you and you can afford a house there. Okay. >> Well, I like that you're thinking ahead cuz a lot of people don't do that.

>> Agreed. >> And I I love that you're thinking that way of here's here's what we our desired future for this. So, that's very very smart. But I agree with Dave. You're going to have to decide, am I is there a pathway for me to earn more money so I can save up this down payment and buy this home the right way or do we have to

look at looking out of town and what does that mean? >> Yeah. Are we going to be or are we going to say we're going to buy a house instead of be at home? >> Mhm. Yeah. That also that's an option, too. >> That that's the three variables involved. You're cutting your income in half. You want to stay in an area and then there's house prices. Yep. So, you got to work on one of those three variables. Got to move. Or two of them.

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So, our last caller talking about affordability on homes reminded me of something. Um, I look at Instagram about

once in a blue moon and I happen to look down somehow in my feed. Who knows how that that stuff happens. Somebody over there does, but it's not me. Um, a guy

is posting typical Tik Tok type thing on

there. It was Instagram in this case.

>> Um, it said, "I wish we could live like this today." And it said 1957.

>> And it shows a gentleman standing in front of a home with uh blue jeans on and rolled up cuffs. >> Mhm. uh a little girl and a wife in a

dress >> and a a car sitting in the driveway

>> in front of their home. He said, "This guy's a Ford factory worker, >> and he can afford a home, a car, and uh

on a factory salary, and his wife can stay home with a kid." >> Mhm.

>> And I thought to myself, h how are you not looking at this picture? This is an 800 square foot

house, track housing in Detroit.

>> I'm looking at the house.

>> It's clapboard. It's not got a brick on it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> It's just cheaply built.

>> Uhhuh. >> It's got one bath.

>> Yes. >> No microwave.

>> Yes. >> Um, it has no pulsetting showers or jacuzzi's or skylights.

>> There are no raetball courts in the neighborhood, and there are certainly any pickle ball courts in the neighborhood. Uh there's not a place to plug in your Tesla.

>> Uh the new car in your driveway is one car, >> not two a boat and three >> seedos.

>> Not six drones and a trampoline in the backyard. >> Mhm. >> The yard is the size of most of you

listening's house.

>> Yes. >> It's 18 acres.

>> Mhm. >> It's called track housing. You can look it up. Okay. They built them in tracks just as fast as they could build them down through there to fill the factory workers to to give them housing so they could get the factories open and running. Henry Ford did it just like he built Model T's off the uh assembly

line. He built these houses off this to do the same thing. >> It's not just Ford. Everybody did it. I mean, all the factories Alcoa, Tennessee, same thing for Alcoa.

>> Same thing happened in the exact same time. But you know, if if we asked someone that's posting that to live in that house and

drive that car, which by the way had no air conditioning. >> Yeah. >> Would have been straight shift. There were certainly no airbags. There was no disc brakes. The the car was um you know

a n drive a 1957 car sometime people.

They don't make them like they used to.

Thank god. >> Yes. That >> it's basically a lawnmower.

>> Uhhuh. We have lawnmowers that are fancier than that car now.

>> He was po he he he he was trying to make a point but he did it in a a not very smart way. >> And now the point he was making was inaccurate is my point. >> Yeah. He he he he got too dram he went

too dramatic cuz does well to your point. >> No his he was trying to say you can't do this today. Well that's right. You can't do that >> and you wouldn't want to do that.

>> You would you would not do this today if we offered it to you. You wouldn't do it. you would say, "Oh, the American dream is broken. You want me to live in a tiny house?" >> What he should have said, which is true, is gosh, it's it's taking me longer than

I thought to say for the house that I want, and it feels way harder than I thought it was going to be. >> Yeah. And the master bedroom or the one I want's larger than this house.

>> Yes. Well, that's why I say the house I want because that is true.

>> I forever. It's taking people longer and it's more frustrating and that's okay to say but don't but to your point over dramatizing it that's not going to help you either. >> It well and to say that something's broken. It's not broken. It's different.

>> It's different. It is different.

>> It's a different thing. And so there there's two or three things. One is you've got to adjust like we told the gentleman a minute ago some of your variables. >> Yes. >> And say, "Okay, maybe mom's not at home if you want to live in an area you can't afford." You know, when I turned 18 years old, >> I could not when I turned 24 years old, I could not afford to live in Manhattan.

>> I could not afford to live in most areas of Los Angeles. >> Mhm. >> And that's in early 1980s.

>> Understood. Yes. >> Okay. Uh because I didn't make enough.

>> Yes. Understood. Yes.

>> And so I have to look at that and go, I can't. The math doesn't math as Jade says, right? Yes. >> And so that's the thing. one. But the other thing is this, the um the thing that has screwed a lot of I think the millennials and the u gen z's have had a

um I think they've gotten a bad rap. And um and we are not saying and I am not saying that they're whiners. Okay, they gotten a bad rap for being whiners. What I am saying is this. You're pointing at stuff like an 800 foot house. That's inaccurate. >> Number one. Number two, you can't point at that. Now, our last caller was not subject to this. I got to set that aside one more time. But most of the time when someone's bitching about affordability,

>> they've got a $1,200 car payment, a $200,000 student loan, >> and the car come, you know, Ford has screwed them. They got a $80,000 F-150.

>> That's true. >> And their their pockets are full of Samuel L. Jackson >> saying, "What's in your wallet?" >> Right. >> I was wondering where you WERE GOING WITH THAT and now I got it. Thank you.

Yes. >> What's in your wallet? >> Yes. >> What's in your wallet? Well, record credit card debt on those two generations. These large banks >> have screwed these two generations and convinced them that they have to have >> what's in your wallet to exist.

>> Hint, boys and girls, let me tell you what's in Samuel Jackson's wallet. A little wagon behind him pulling all the money he made from them commercials selling you crap.

>> That's what's in his wallet.

>> And it's unbelievable. Same thing with the guy the the the Capital One guy or whatever it is. He does not >> he does not live in the bank. I just if you didn't know >> he doesn't really live there. Okay.

>> Yes. >> It's just this is unbelievable y'all. So these companies, car companies, you know, 20% of the cars that left the lot last month were over $1,000 a month car payments.

If you do that and you have record credit card debt and you have record student loan debt, of course you can't afford a house >> because you got screwed. >> That's true. >> You got screwed by higher education. A stupid Congress keeps making these loans. >> You got screwed by Capital One. Yes. You got screwed by Ford and Lexus credit >> cuz you got to have a car. You have I have to have a nice car. I have to have something safe for my children. Oh, you're killing me. and and okay, I'm I'm

I'm gonna stand right. I'mma stand with you and I'm also gonna stand on the other side because there's that none of that's helping you, right? If you have if you have >> you cannot buy a house with that and you never have been able to buy a house >> and you never have. Yes. And then there's also the side of it >> record levels. >> There's also the side of it where you look at it, you go, "Okay, uh 415 is the

is the median." So even if you're like, "Hey, I'm going to be on the conservative side. I'm looking at like 375, right? I'm I'm going to spend around 375. If you make $90,000, which

is over over >> average >> over average over median, uh over average, not over median, uh you're still going to have because of interest rates and because you're still going to have to put down way more than the 20, you know, than the the the 10%.

>> Yeah. But here's the thing. >> The percentage that we would say 45,000 up against it. Yeah. But you're But that's not first-time home buyers.

415,000 is not first- time home buyers.

415,000 is the median of all homes for sale, including including mine.

>> Yeah. Everything to everything considered. >> So, if you take first-time home buyers, you talk to the 34 year olds that stand on this stage and say, "I'm debtree. I just paid off my house." >> How'd you do that? >> I I live in a town where 275,000 or

200,000 buys a lot of house.

>> A lot of house. Yes. and I make 60

$70,000 a year, $80,000 a year. And I bought a house for $200 and some thousand dollar >> and I worked my butt off and I paid it off. >> Um, and it is not fancy.

>> Yes. >> And the town is not fancy.

>> Yes. >> And the car they're driving is not fancy. >> And so, you know, but so if if you don't Yes. You cannot on an average income, you not cannot buy a median price house.

>> You can't. >> That is true. By the way, I don't think it's ever been true. >> It's not been true. I'm simply saying that there both sides of it are true. If you get to the point like the guy in your Instagram thing where you're over dramatizing it, then you're never going to find the solution. >> Right. >> That's my point is we can acknowledge >> and that's really kind of what your book is about. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But debt is certainly not helping you.

>> So don't get screwed by these big companies and set your sights on a

firsttime home purchase.

>> Yes. Not a median home price purchase.

>> And it might take you longer than you thought. That's okay, too. It took Sam and I, and it's in the book, 10 years, Dave, before we bought our first house.

>> Ooh, that's distressing.

>> So, that's why I get to say that. >> You want me to wait 10 years?

>> Well, you got to do what you got to do to be able to afford it.

>> There's my point.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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Ari is in Washington DC. Hi Ari, how are

you?

>> I'm good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah. So, I just had a couple of changes with my income in the past like 14 days

and it's all coming down on me at once.

So, I'm trying to figure that out on top of the fact that I don't think my uh job is going to be the best fit for me moving forward. So, under >> So, what was the change in your what was the change in your income?

So, I was originally making

about 4500

uh a month, but on top of my hours being

cut back down to normal, taking away my overtime uh because it was short staff and now there's not it's not short staff. Uh so, they cut the hours plus I signed up for the family insurance to cover the family. So, that's taken a lot out now.

So, >> so what's your income down to?

>> So, my income is down to about

uh 3,774.

>> What do you do? >> Uh monthly. So, right now I am a uh

banker.

>> A banker?

>> Yeah. >> You like work in the branch?

>> Yes, I do. I work in the branch as a uh

as a uh teller.

>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. You're a teller. >> And it's you and your family of how many? >> Um, it's my wife and my uh staff son.

>> Okay. >> And what does she what does she make?

>> Um, she doesn't make anything right now.

Uh, she just finished a uh CNA program

in DC. So, so she's waiting to hear back

for the clinicals part >> and then she'll start uh applying for jobs there. Meanwhile, she just had an interview today at a uh bar down the street. So, she's going to try and do either serving or bartending. So, meanwhile, we just been doing a door dash to keep things going.

>> Okay. And does the door dash fill the gap to get you back to the 44500 you were used to?

>> Uh, no.

Um, and >> we lost you. You're going to speak into your phone, son.

>> Okay. Yes, sir. Can you hear me now?

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Okay. So, yeah, part of the part of the reason was uh I was getting 1,100 as

well from the uh a vocational kind of

military educational benefit.

>> Oh, okay. >> But I uh failed one of the classes. So,

>> they uh haven't paid the next term.

>> So, I found that out like about a week ago. So, kind of sort everything out.

>> So, you're used to $5,600 a month and now you're down to 37 >> thereabout. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. And uh >> how did you fail the class?

>> I it was I just was trying to do too

much because I was doing the job and then I had Uber. I was doing Uber and everything but then the registration came due uh like this week actually.

So >> yeah, but I mean you knew you were failing the class. Why don't you quit the Uber and pass the class? It's 1,100 bucks a month.

That's more than >> Yeah. And it was just it was just it was just not poor kind of poor time management I think to be honest.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it was. Yeah. >> Tell us about your living situation. Are you are you renting and or do you own something? How and how much do you pay a month? >> Uh we're renting and it's about it's about it honestly been going up the last three months but this month it was uh 2,000. >> Oo yeah. This tight.

>> Okay. So 100% of everything we're

talking about is income problems

and I understand how we got to every one

of the different pieces of it now. Thank you for giving us the clarity on that.

And so the answer is going to be 100% fix on the income side.

>> And I don't know exactly what that is for you right now, but your answer is as

you know, figure if you figure out if you can get the military to give you a wager and restart the class and go

retake that class and maybe you can get

a um you know, a pass on that one and

and get, you know, give get them to give you a little grace and see if they'll do that. see if they have a program for a review on that and get that going again.

And this time pass the freaking class, of course. Never do that again. Um, and then the second thing is what are you going to do to create income cuz it sounds like you need a new job, dude.

Doesn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I am looking at at

different things. Um, I was thinking about going into security for the meantime. The ultimate goal, ironically enough, is that I go into into the financial sector.

>> I I hope it's not technology.

>> He said financial sector. >> Okay. Yeah. Speak into the >> You keep dropping the phone or something. I don't know. >> All right. So, yeah, you've got to create income. Ari >> got to She does too. Both of you together have to do this.

>> Yeah. And and it's not I mean, the first thing you do is get enough money to eat and keep the lights on. And that's bartending and Uber and those kinds of things, but those are not long-term fixes. It's not a life.

You can't do that forever. >> That's not your way of life. Side hustle is not a way of life. And so what we want to do then is create a a career path that's going to take you both.

Get that CNA stuff past. Get that that income will be a lot more than bartending. >> She's got she's her path is there.

>> Got to get there as fast as we possibly can. We don't want to stub our toe on that. And then you've got to figure out exactly where you're going and what your steps are to get there. >> So we're going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has in it an assessment. I recommend you take that. Um, but you need to get very laser focused on where you're going and exactly what the steps are to get there because you cannot wallow in this. You do not have the mathematical time.

You've got to move forward. Alex is in Baltimore.

Alex. How are you?

>> Good afternoon, Dave. Good afternoon, Jay. Congrats on your new book.

>> Thank you. Uh so my question is my wife and I have been married for uh 18 years. Uh we have two teenage children and I recently started a new job where I am getting paid about 60% more than my last job.

>> Yay. >> That's awesome.

>> Thank you. Thank you. What are you doing? So I'm >> Well, uh I actually I I am running a

small trade association.

>> Cool. And what are you being paid?

>> Uh 300K.

>> Way to go. Way to go, dude. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. So, um really what I'm doing right now is um looking for advice uh from you both on how I can pay off um our remaining debt in order to and words that you've used before. Dave, level up.

>> There you go. Good stuff. Well, you know, we're going to walk you right through the baby steps. It sounds like you know them. Where are you? Uh at this

point, you know, it uh I have um I put

aside the thousand uh as you recommended and I'm targeting now the debts that we have, but I'm debating on and one of the questions I have is should I be targeting based on the avalanche method or the snowball method?

>> How long you been listening to us?

>> Uh listening reading for, you know, a little bit of time. Okay. >> You got to know you got >> 100% of the time we stay away from the avalanche method. We go with the snowball. And the reason is very simple.

The probability of completion is much higher when you get feedback.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And probability of completion on the avalanche is very low. Most people don't complete it. Avalanche is highest interest rate to smallest. I was asking interest rate highest interest rate to smallest. People say it's mathematically correct. It's not actually mathematically correct when you add in probability of completion, >> which is a math factor. Okay.

>> And so, um, snowball simple. How much debt have you got? Not counting your house.

>> Uh, not counting the house. Um, that's easy. It's about uh it's about 90k >> on what?

>> Uh, admittedly 11 of it is um student

loans and the rest is consumer debt in a consolidated loan.

>> One loan?

>> Yes, sir. >> Wow. >> Was it cars in there?

>> No, sir. We don't have any car payments.

We haven't had a car payment in about 17 years. >> So, you just put everything on credit card then? Oh my god. Uh without getting

into the gory details, we had to make some decisions. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you're used to living on 140, right?

>> Uh a little bit more than that. Yeah. My

math might not be mathing as as you said, but >> that's all right. But you said you got a 60% increase. So let's just pretend it was only 50%. >> And you put it all on the debt. >> Yeah. There you go. You're done in a year.

>> Okay. >> You're going to feel it cuz you're not going to be living the life you think you should should be living at 300,000.

Woohoo! Oh crap. >> Yeah, >> I got a raise. Oh crap. I don't get to use any of it. I got to clean up the mess from my past.

>> Been there.

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And that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step. Start every dollar for free. Download it in the App Store or Google Play. Chuck is with us in Montana. Hi, Chuck. How are you? Montana, California. That's different. What's up, Chuck? How are you? >> Hey, Chuck. Uh Dave, doing better than I

deserve. How are you, sir? >> Just the same. How can we help?

>> Hey, um just want to thank you for your book, The Total Money Makeover. My mom gave that to me.

It seems like almost 20 years ago now, but uh really pulled me out of a lot of

debt and bad financial decisions. Well, so today I'm I'm 40 years old. Um

engaged to be married in a couple of months. >> Good.

>> And um it's my mom and I in my house. Um

I owe another uh 140 left on the house.

Um I I have a sizable um cash savings.

What I want to do my my or so I'm we're

going through marriage counseling. Uh the elder in our church is really pushing us to live alone for at least

the first year.

Um >> I like your elder.

>> Me too.

>> Uh mom doesn't have anywhere to go.

She's retired.

So, this was my plan and and you could tell me how stupid I am, but um to use

the cash I have to buy another home and

my mom has enough she gets enough retirement to maintain the current home.

>> Is she Is she ill?

>> No. >> How old is >> How old is she?

>> She is 67.

Does she not have any money?

>> She she just has um

her her union pension and then social security total. >> That's about 2,200 a month.

>> And the house, did you guys buy it together or is it totally your name? You pay for everything?

>> It's all mine. >> Okay.

>> What do you make of it your own?

Um, it it's a range, but my my base pay is 150, but it could it swings wildly up

to about 180.

>> And your fiance your fiance makes what?

>> Uh, about 72,000 a year.

>> Okay.

Um,

okay. Number one, your elder is correct.

You do not need to be having a brand new marriage with your mom in the house. She's 67 years old. She's not a She's not 88 years old. She's not an Alzheimer's patient. She's not She just needs to have a life. Okay. Be good for her. Be good for you. And it'll certainly be good for your relationship.

Good. Good counsel. I like your counsel.

Okay. Agree. >> That's number one. And so then how do And that's your you're in agreement. You're not arguing about that. So your question is how do we get there most logically?

>> Um all right. So So there's two things.

There's one is how do we solve the short term and then two is what is what what is a plan that is sustainable

because likely if she's in good health in ' 67 um I mean we probably have a 20

year or a 30-year time horizon here for her right I >> I understand yes >> and so what is it we're going to put in place that she can sustain her life

during that period of time and then you get to have a life and you love her, you want to take care of her, but um but she doesn't have to come under your roof ever necessarily.

>> And I don't think that you have the funds to float two Yeah.

>> two homes. >> Yeah. You have the income to float her help her float an apartment for herself.

>> Uhhuh. >> And um the two of you either live in this house or you sell it and buy a home that the two of you want. The two of you being your fiance, not your mother. And um but I think some autonomy for her would give her more dignity and you um as

well. Uh it's going to be super healthy for your relationship with your fiance, your mar your wife. Um and uh

yeah, you have to do that. And so uh but

no, I would not I would not buy today.

I would just rent her something and if you need to help her >> with the rent, >> fine. Now, if you did that and she moved to a nice, >> you know, a nice one-bedroom condo that you rented for her, that's just out of pocket for the rent. That's not much money. >> Okay, comparatively >> versus buying a home, okay, for cash.

Now, would you all then live in this house, Chuck, or would you all sell this house?

>> No. Um my my my mom would live out her

days in the current home and and >> we're suggesting suggested moving her out.

>> Oh well so so the elder was saying that

try to do a year where it's just you you and the wife and then if if

circumstances change and mom has to move back in that might be okay. It's not

optimal but we we just we need that one year alone. Yeah. That's that's bare minimum is what he's saying. And what we're suggesting is >> don't buy a house for one year.

>> Yeah. And and if you can and if you can

live as a couple indefinitely, you should live as a couple indefinitely >> is what I'm is what I'm saying.

>> Like I said, that the the house is worth 550. I owe 140 on it. I I currently have

saved up 130. If your mom was in a

one-bedroom nice apartment that you were helping her rent instead of in this house, >> would you and your fiance stay in this house?

>> Yes. >> Okay, let's talk about doing that.

That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. That's what I would do. >> She's not sick. There's nothing that you need to be there to take care of her.

So, if you can She's got a whole life.

She got 65. Okay, come on.

>> Listen. Yes. And you've got to >> Okay, here's what I'm thinking, Dave.

>> I'm thinking I'd get a job >> and you got to get >> 67. >> Yeah. And and but but Chuck, you got to separate from your mom is what I'm saying, buddy. >> That's all. Otherwise, that's going to cause problems with the wifey, the new wife. >> You need physical separation and emotional separation. Y'all have been you're 40 years old. You're just getting married. There's nothing evil about this, but the the this is um your your

elder is giving you very good relational counsel. >> Mhm. >> Except the part of a year minimum. It's >> I would I would just say separate period. >> Yeah. >> And then but your your fiance knows at some point maybe you'll have to take care of your mom. Maybe you have to take care of her mom. >> Yeah. Maybe. You never know. Yes.

>> We don't know what's coming up. But that's for better, for worse. That's for rich or for poor. That's for in-laws in the basement for and all that. Yeah.

>> And so um Yeah.

So, but that I I'm not going to plan to

be right back here in 18 months. No, that's scared. No, I >> if if that Listen, if that was uh if she

if your fiance was calling me, I'd tell her not to marry you >> 100%. >> Unless you had a plan for mom to stay gone. >> What? Yes. If she called in and said, "My fiance >> wants to have my his mom move back in in 18 months," I would say, "Nah, >> that's a pass." Hard pass.

>> Uhhuh. We would. >> Yeah. I think your elders being very sweet to you, but also giving you good advice.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Very nice. So, anyway, we're going to be a little tougher.

We're going to be a little tougher on you, buddy. >> And it doesn't mean you don't love your mom. It just means that this is the design is for you to go off and start your life. >> Let me just tell you, the chances of Rachel Cruz letting me move in with them at any point in my me breathing me breathing.

The only chance I move in with them is in an earn in an earn on the on the on the mantle. That's the only way I'm moving in with Rachel. I'm just saying. >> And even still, you're in the laundry room.

You're in the You're in the You're in the pool house. >> I'm in the pool house. Rocking the pool house.

>> Oh boy. Oh boy.

>> No, it's not happening. The Ram the Ramsies have pretty firm boundaries on this stuff. I'm just saying. >> That's very good.

>> We love each other at a distance.

>> Yes. Wow. Yes.

>> Oh, Chuck, I think you got good people in your life, son. and you got a sweetheart >> and you're a good man and you've done a good job taking care of your mom and the By the way, she's only 67. It'd be awesome if she went and had a thing called a life is the new 47. >> Yeah, I promise you. I'm looking at it in the mirror.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Wshaw, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. Her

new book, Lands on the Street. Today, it's out. What no one tells you about money, the key to getting unstuck from

someone who's been there, done that, and got the yellow t-shirt. There it is.

Love it. Open phones here at 88825-5225.

Blake is in Rochester, New York. Hey Blake, how are you?

>> Hey, Dave. Uh, I'm excited, but I'm also a little nervous and a little scared right now. Uh, so I just wanted to get your feedback. >> We'll give it a shot. How can we help, brother? >> All right. So, about 6 months ago, I bought a car in cash. Um, and about two

days ago, the engine blew up.

>> Oh, no. >> I don't have a car right now. I spent $10,000 on the car, and I can sell it

for about $1,000 right now.

>> What's What kind of car is this?

>> It's a Chevy Malibu. Mhm.

>> What happened to the engine?

>> Uh, there's a cracked piston in it. So,

>> Wow. >> That's the That's the issue. Yep.

>> Yeah. How many miles did it have on it when you bought it? >> It had 109,000 miles on it.

>> Wow. That's unusual.

>> Yep. Yeah. It's just It's unfortunate.

That's That's the situation.

>> Yeah. So, you have any money?

>> I have about $5,000 in cash.

>> Excellent. Fix the car. Fix the car.

Well, >> you don't sell a $10,000 car for $1,000

when it needs all it needs is a used engine in it. >> Yeah. What will that cost? >> You go to a salvage yard and buy an engine. A used engine. >> So, I have a couple buddies that are mechanics. The used engine is going to cost between 1,500 and 2,000. And the labor is going to cost about >> $2 to $3,000.

>> That's a bit heavy. But yeah, but I mean my question is, do I spend like 60 70% of the car's value

then? >> Yes. >> Mix it up. >> Yes. Here's why. Okay. If you sell it for $1,000 now, you take a $9,000 loss.

If you put $6,000 into it plus the

1,000, that's $7,000. You could turn around and sell it the next day for $10,000.

I I think I could only sell it for about 65,000 if it had nothing wrong with it because I've it has 130,000 miles on it.

I I drive a lot now.

>> I don't I don't think a $10,000 car lost 35% of its value in the period of time

we're talking about with the miles we're talking about. >> Is there anything else aside from this is a very very used car.

>> Okay. It's not lost that much in value.

And besides that, you're still talking about you would at least get your money back. You know, you'd at least get out of it. And so, no, I I I I think you can

get more for it than the repairs. I think you got to work on your repair cost. Get your repair cost as low as you can possibly get it. And labor and in the engine. The engine didn't sound wrong to me. The labor did sound wrong.

Um, and so, uh, because what you got to do is you got to do this on the cheap. It's a cheap freaking car. So, we're not certainly, you know, you're not going to the dealer and putting a $15,000 engine in the thing. And so, u So, we're going to fix it. And then the only question is, do we keep it?

>> Okay.

>> You got $5,000, so you can fix the thing. I mean, you got the money to fix it. And uh and you got to you have to you don't have a choice. Otherwise, you're going to get destroyed here. And um and you may have a really serviceable car. Um, what what do you happen to know

what the engine is?

>> Yeah, it's a it's a turbo engine.

Four-cylinder. >> A four. Okay. Yeah, but the Malibu will hold a six or an eight, won't it?

>> Uh, there's not a lot of space. I mean, you I don't know. It would It would be tough to put a six or eight in there.

>> Okay. I I I'm not seeing that model in my head very clearly, obviously. Okay.

So anyway, yeah, if I put a four back in it, then that may be an engine that that

uh you know, a little four-cylinder that's cheaply built. If that's the version of Malibu we're dealing with here, then uh then it may be something you fix and get rid of. Okay.

>> Okay. >> But um I I would try to buy something that has um if I'm spending $10,000 that

has a lot more life than a worn out four

cylinder engine on 110,000 mi. Okay.

Now, again, that depends on the vehicle and what we're dealing with here. But,

uh, but you know, you need to research and say, okay, what percentage of four-cylinder Maliboos are blowing a a dad gun piston? And that now I'm

thinking, okay, see, I've got old Malibu in my head. I'm old. >> That's my problem. I'm thinking of an old, but that's a different car. So, um, okay. Anyway, yeah, you I'm still going to fix this as cheap as possible cuz I think you can sell it for more than the cost of the repairs plus the salvage in this case, even if you turn around and sell it and buy something different.

Then in the future, you're going to pay cash for something that has a lot of

life left in it.

>> Okay? And um I'll use an example. A

$10,000 Honda Accord would have a lot of life

left in it regardless of how many cylinders it has. Okay.

>> Um a $10,000 Dodge Neon might not.

>> Nothing. >> Okay. Like I would not do that ever. So

um as an example, so you got to kind of think through, you know, how well, you know, h how many of the old version of this car do we see on the highway?

>> That's what I do. >> Toyota Camry, you know, I mean that's what we're dealing with here. and uh pickup trucks, you know, that kind of stuff. What is it that you see around?

>> Then you know it's got some longevity to it. >> It's got, you know, when you're buying a $10,000 car, cuz all you're buying is transportation. We're not buying sex appeal or fancy. >> Yeah. >> We're just trying to get there. That's all. >> Yeah. Don't buy a >> So, >> Malibu or a Jeep Compass.

>> Yeah. O, please don't do that. Yeah.

Apparently, don't buy a Malibu. Yeah.

>> Don't buy a Mercury Mystique.

>> Whoa.

The worst. >> Did you do that? I I I didn't I Listen, I'm dumb. I've done dumb things. Not >> I'm glad you didn't You didn't do the mystique. >> The mistake. >> The mistake. The Mercury mistake. Yeah.

Wow. I remember those. That's That was a long time ago. >> Y >> Wow. So, okay. Let's talk about that for a second, guys. So, here's the thing.

That is not a way of life that we would

sign you up for. >> Yes. Yes, I'm glad you said >> that is a step on the journey of life. Okay? And the

step is I'm going to drive like no one else so that later I can drive like no one else. >> I'm going to wear clothing like no one else so that later I can wear clothing like no one else. I'm going to vacation not at all so that later I can vacation like no one else. I'm going to go to restaurants not at all so later I can go to restaurants like no one else. It's not a way of living. It's a sprint to

get your butt out of the land of broke.

>> Yeah. Motivating you to go faster.

>> When you buy a car

that is just a get-around car or worse than his car, a hooptie, >> you buy the $2,000 hooptie.

>> So Joe that works here, you know Joe?

>> Yeah. >> When it was a point when Joe was working here, not this Joe, different Joe. uh that Joe was going to drop me off at the car dealership to pick up my car. It was being serviced. >> Okay. >> He pulls around front and a Ford 1994

Granada. >> Oh. Oh god.

>> Land yacht.

>> Oh wow. >> It originally had been red, but now it was slightly more like pink.

>> Pink. Oh.

>> I got in the thing. The interior was pristine. He bought it from his grandmother for $700.

It had 20,000 miles on it.

>> She only drove it on Sundays. >> Had 20,000 miles on it. He drove this

horrible car. >> Wow. >> For a period of time so that now Joe drives whatever Joe wants to drive. >> He does. Yes. >> And as well he should.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

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That's rammissysolutions.com/

Caleb is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hi, Caleb. How are you >> doing? Great. How are y'all? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> All right. Well, I've got a two-part question here. The first part is I'm getting married in two months.

>> Congratulations. >> So, thank you. Uh me and my future wife

are asking about specific joint accounts

we should be putting together. And then the second part, she is currently in vet school and so we're racking on about $120,000 of student loan debt. So, how should we go about attacking that now?

>> Okay. Is she just starting it or she's finishing up?

>> She is just starting her second semester. So, she has three and a half years left. >> So, you're planning to go into debt on this versus trying to avoid going into debt on this.

>> Uh, currently, yes.

>> Okay. We're going to come back and talk about that. Let's talk about the the accounts that you're talking about combining.

>> That was your first question, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you need you need a checking account that you're both paid into. Both of your monies come into there. That's the account that you do all your business out of. You pay your bills out of it. You get the groceries out of it.

It's connected to your every dollar account. You need that. You're probably going to need uh sooner than later a

high yield savings account where you would keep your $1,000 emergency fund or where you would keep your 3 to 6 months of expenses. Um something along those lines is going to be what you need. And that's really the main few things that's you started. >> It's all you need. We have one checking account in my home. >> Yeah. I don't have but one checking counter at home. >> That's it.

>> And that that's really it. Um further along you might do some other things, but right now that's really it. Uh I want to come back and talk about these student loans because if I can keep you from going into $120,000 of debt, I want to do that. >> Are you already 120 in or you think you're going to go 120 in?

I so we get about it's about four 30

grand a year and so we're on track to I

think it will be around that by the time it's over. Um but I'm currently in some freelance work. So I'm trying to figure out how to up my income so that we can tackle that while ours are still low.

>> So what is your career sir?

>> I am in sports broadcasting.

>> Okay. And what do you make?

Uh, right now it varies depending on how

many games there are. Um, but around the

two to 4 thousand a month, but I do have about four days a week they're open. So, I'm currently looking for another thing to actually make this more of a career, not just a hobby. >> Right. I'm glad you realize right now it's kind of a part-time hobby.

>> Yeah. Good. Okay. And how old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Cool. And do you have a four-year degree?

I do. I have a bachelor's of business administration. >> Okay. All right. Let's go get a business

thing moving. And the sports broadcasting be a side hustle. Um because obviously the games are very seldom if ever during the day. Okay. The weekday. And so let's go get like a job in other words. And uh get your household income up considerably. And then I bet you could come close to if you guys lived on beans and rice, come close to cash flowing vet school, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. I think that's the plan rather than plan to go into debt and develop a strategy on how to deal with this debt that I'm planning to go in.

>> Instead, let's plan not to go into it.

>> How old is she?

>> She's 22. >> 22. >> Okay. Well, um I mean, commend her for

being in vet school. Number one, there's very few people that make it into vet school and make it out of vet school that are not smart people. It's a very very rigorous um uh curriculum. It's

very tough, you know, to be, >> you know, versus a medical doctor has to learn one body and one set of anatomy and so on. U you know, vets have to learn a bunch of them. I mean, it's crazy. And so, uh, and they make really, really good money out the backside of this, uh, potentially usually, um,

corporate has kind of invaded that space, and it's not as good as it used to be, but, uh, I've known vetinarians who made a lot more than doctors over the years, uh, MDs, and so, um, you

know, I I think it's a great field of study, but what I'm going to do if I'm the two of you is I'm going to figure out a way to live on nothing, make a pile of money, and cash flow this puppy.

>> I agree. >> And that's exactly how I would get at this. Hey, and we'll set you up on every dollar as our wedding gift to you guys.

Uh, and get it get you set up free on it so you can get going. And the two of you sit down, do that budget, and follow that stuff process. But man, if I'm you, I'm leaning in hard on the career side of things. And I'm going to continue to work the side hustle because that's the dream is to go that way. >> Yes. >> Um, but I've been in broadcasting for 40 years and I know a lot of sports broadcasters that don't make a living.

Wow. >> They don't make a living if they're local. Okay. I mean, national guys, national gals that you know, they make a living. And a few of the folks, you know, your local television station, maybe that guy or gal makes a living.

Okay? But, um, broadcasting local high school games, you don't make a living.

Broadcasting small town college games, you don't make a living. Okay? Uh, that that's a side gig. And so until you get that break up into a whole another level and either end up on your local television station or some kind of a situation where you're able to, you know, actually monetize your sports knowledge.

>> Um it may take a while. And so in the meantime, I'm going to go make some money and pay cash for my wife's vet school. And if you're a person uh similar to Caleb and you're kind of on

this crest of I see debt in the future,

but we haven't done it yet. You don't ha you don't have to go down the path, right? Maybe may if you're listening right now and your cars just broke down and you're thinking, I got to go to the dealership and get a new car. You don't have to do that. You don't have to put

the repair for your refrigerator on the credit card. You don't have to take out the student loan. You can stop for a minute and think, >> "What else could I do? >> What else could I do?" You're not >> if debt was not an option, what would I do?

>> And that's the way you need to think of it. And then you start to become a lot more creative. And you start to realize you probably have more time than you're giving yourself credit for it. It may not be as urgent as it feels.

It may feel very urgent, but when you stop and think about it, maybe there's some time there that you can take to seek out some other options. So that's just for somebody who's who's listening in their car right now or or or sitting on the couch listening to this thinking about going to take out debt to solve a problem. >> You know that that is a valid thing.

money. >> Yeah. No more. And so since I don't borrow money, it never occurs to me to

fix a an opportunity that's in front of me with debt >> or a disaster that's in front of me with debt. >> And I I so I will never be able to say the words I was forced to go into debt cuz I just >> we're just the car's just going to be in the driveway broken.

>> Refrigerator. We're just going to get some ice and a cooler I guess >> because we can't do that. We don't borrow money. >> And so what are we going to do? I mean, I remember when Sharon and I were coming out of bankruptcy and we were so broke we couldn't pay attention. I mean, we had nothing. We had just filed bankruptcy and the stinking roof on the house starts leaking.

>> And worse than leaking, it's going through the light fixture over the

kitchen table. >> Oh, yeah. >> And so, water coming through electricity. >> This is like a fire hazard, right?

>> And it's dripping on our kitchen table to remind us it's like you're a failure.

You're a failure. You're a failure.

you're a failure dripping on my kitchen table and I feel shame like nobody's business because I've just gone through bankruptcy, right? And I'm like and I can't afford to put a roof on the house. I don't owe any money.

>> So, and I don't borrow money >> and nobody would have loan me money anyway. I just got out of bankruptcy, right? >> Somebody would have probably, but I'm not that. I mean, I was just done. So, all I did I just went down to the hardware store and got some of that uh black tar stuff. >> Mhm. >> And I mean, just looked like white trash. I just went up and poured it on top of the house.

do whatever you have to do to make it work. >> It stopped it stopped leaking. >> Yeah. >> And then when we put a roof on the house about a year later, I made a little bit of money and I got to where I could breathe, you know, >> and I put a roof on the house.

The the the roofer's like, what happened to your roof? Who did that? And I'm like, I'm not even talk about any not even going to talk about it. Just shovel that stuff off of there and put a roof on it, buddy.

That's just how it works. That's the way it goes down. >> Yes. And and you have to, you know, we teach the baby steps, but the first you have, if you don't mentally walk yourself through this step, I you're missing out.

You have to decide, I am not borrowing money anymore.

I don't steal cars. I don't, you know, whatever that moral decision or whatever, I don't borrow money. It's just a way of life. >> I don't burn villages. >> I don't plunder. Yeah. I don't borrow money.

When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again. It can feel like you're losing your mind, but you're not alone. And you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It turns out money is emotional, and no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck until now.

I'm going to tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy today at ramseysolutions.com/store.

That's ramseyolutions.com/store.

Dale is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi, Dale. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Happy New Year to you all. >> Happy New Year. How can we help?

>> So, uh, I got a job offer. Um, I'm a

paramedic. I got a job offer. It is a contract position on a year-to-year basis with a three-year pro projection.

Um, and I'm having a really hard time deciding if I should take that or stick with my current employer.

>> Is it also in paramedic?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're staying in the same field. The only question is you're going to go contract. Now, when you go contract, do you lose all your benefits?

>> I will lose my benefits with my current employer. I will get benefits on the contract position.

>> However, uh they're not as good.

>> Okay. And and what are you being paid now?

>> Uh currently, well, I work uh the the

hours I don't work 40-hour work weeks. I work average 56-hour work weeks. Uh and I'm about 85 a year.

>> Um this job would be um about average

42. It's 84 hours a week, but one week

on, one week off. And so, uh, it's about

95 96 a year.

>> Okay. All right. So, it's a better quality of life.

>> Yes. >> And it's more money?

>> It is. >> Okay. Uh, is there anything wrong with the um culture of the organization that

you're thinking about joining, the municipality or whatever it is?

No, not not to my knowledge. Um, they're good people. From what I've heard, it's >> from from what I know, it's it's a legit position. And um >> Why would you not do that? >> Yeah. What's the downside that you >> just the stability? Is that the only downside? >> The the stability. Yes. Um,

>> so the likelihood of them not renewing your contract at the end of three years would be that they didn't need paramedics or you screwed up Christmas

>> there. Yes, that would be the

likelihood. Yeah. >> The the other downside is um their 401k

is like retirement benefit stuff like that isn't uh nearly as good as my current employer and I'm 36. I got

>> You'll be okay though. You have it available to you and you're going to make 16. You're going to make more money and you've got more time off.

>> So you would do what a lot of people do in your world and that's start a side hustle on those off weeks, right?

>> I could. Yes. >> I know a lot. I mean, you're not going to sit on your butt five days a week, are you?

>> No, I would just spend time with the kids cuz I work 3,300 hours for the year of 2025. And >> yeah, but I'm talking about this other thing is is an average number of hours.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> And so, um, >> no, I I would I would still do something.

>> Yeah. I would have a side I mean, I know a guy that's a fireman that, uh, he made 80,000 bucks last year on the side gig, >> you know, building decks. He has a deck building business, you know, and he just he has people he subs it out to and he runs the jobs and goes over there when he's off work. And, you know, they're doing 72 on is what they're doing.

But, um, but same kind of thing. You got a lot of downtime. And so, uh, that's what I would do.

how long has the other Why do they have a contract? Why don't they have just Why aren't they just hiring paramedics? Any idea? because it it's a um on-site

medical for a new construction >> for your projected construction.

>> So, so what happens if the construction if the construction runs out, you'd be out of a job?

>> Correct. >> Will they assign you elsewhere >> when the place is built? I'm sorry.

>> Will they assign you to another site or is it just over over >> it? That one would be over. However, if

there's something around, I could

pick something else up. Um, if I felt

like traveling, which I'm not going to because I got kids and >> that defeats the whole purpose. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, what do you think the what do you think the buildout is on this thing?

>> Like, how long is it going to be? >> Yeah. When are they going to be done?

>> Uh, three years.

>> Oh, so you're out of a job in three years.

I for that one I would be yes and I mean

I could find another job pretty quick.

Uh the the difference would be you know

what's the pay going to be like?

>> My question is the people that are contracting you for this job, do they contract you for other jobs as well or it's just that on that?

>> Um they could contract me for other jobs. I've never worked for them before though. >> Interesting. I'd want to find that out and I'd want to if you know anybody who's worked with them, I'd want to know, have they ever contracted you for other jobs or has it just been one thing and that's that.

I I would want to know more about that because >> I got to I got to know where I'm going to land. If I want to do this, I got to know where I'm going to land in three years. >> They they can absolutely uh contract me for another job. It's a matter of location.

>> I know.

>> I got to I got to see that other otherwise this is a three and done.

Three and done. This take it takes all the fun out of this.

>> I would not do it for three and done.

But three and done and I got a pl

likelihood of finding something within a 40 mile radius. Okay, good. I'm going with that. Oh, that that's not that's not a problem. Finding another job in a 40 mile radius is not a problem. Um, it

may not be with them, but finding another position wouldn't be hard.

>> Okay. So, there's a shortage of paramedics in your area.

>> Absolutely. Yes. >> Okay. >> Did Can I ask you a quick question? Did this job find you or did you seek it out? Like, were you saying, "Man, I got to get out of my current gig >> and you found this or how did it happen?" >> Almost a little bit of both. Um, I was kind of looking at something else or trying to find what other something else that I might be able to do. Um, and I

did not find this one. A recruiter called me. >> Understood. >> All right. If you are fe if you feel really good that you can land somewhere else in a reasonable 85 to 90 range or

above at the end of three years that is tolerable without having to lose your life again or having to move your family

then this is a good deal. If you don't feel good about that then this is not a good deal. That's the way it comes down to. >> I agree after all of this this all this round the barn twice. That's really what this comes down to.

>> All right. Uh Frank's in Daytona Beach, Florida. Hi Frank. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Glad that I glad to get on the

show. How are you? >> Honored to have you, sir. How can we help? >> Thank you. Yes, sir. Uh my wife and I

been married 46 great years and we both

work for large corporations.

Uh her for 28 years, me for 38. Uh

without changing anything and uh pretty boring life, but we pulled it off. We raised three beautiful kids who are very successful.

One of the issues that I have is that um

I have a nest egg of about $3 million including a $500,000 house that's paid for. No bills, no debt. My question is,

uh my daughter lives a few blocks away from us. My sons have moved away.

They're working in their own occupations. And what I want to know is, is there any way without taking a big

tax uh hit to get my money out of my IRA

and stay below the Irma and uh federal

income tax brackets? I try to stay below the 24 uh% bracket. Um cuz I'd like the

gift of the house, but I would also like to get another house. A house that my wife and I would see the end of our uh lives in probably.

>> When you pull the money out of the 401k, you've already analyzed what you're going to face there. >> You're going to have to keep it under the brackets and under Irma. And if you do that, you're going to minimize the taxes, but it's all taxable. As far as gifting the house goes, you can gift her the house. If you move out of this one, give her that house and you buy another one for cash. Um, you can do that for

zero taxes with uh the unified estate

tax credit. You can listen to that later on the podcast. Unified estate tax credit. You and your wife have $15 million each of federal estate tax

exemption in the year 2026. You can use

some of that against the gift tax and

not have to pay gift tax on giving her the half million dollar house with a unified estate tax credit. You have to fill out a form, not a big deal, and put an appraisal with it on the house. And then you've used up some of your $15 million each that you have by giving her that half million. And that that one's easy. The the IRA, that one's tough. So,

you can see your tax attorney to figure that out or whoever does your taxes, if they're really good with taxes, they'll be able to do that in their sleep

everywhere. Everywhere you turn right now, you're being told a lie about money that you can't get ahead, that you can't survive without debt. And those lies are keeping you broke. Don't buy into it.

Yes, there's a lot of noise and chaos and confusion out there. But there's also hope. The truth is, you have more

control than you think. This year, it's time to take back your hard-earned money

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and Jade Warshaw will show you how to go from chaos to clarity with your money.

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Our

scripture of the day, James 1:22. Do not merely listen to the word and so deceive

yourselves. Do what it says. Simon Synynic says, "Communication is not about saying what we think. Communication is about ensuring others hear what we mean." Our question of the

day is brought to you by Why Rei. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, YFI can help dig you out with low fixed rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Not in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Taylor in Washington. They say, "We have our emergency fund and have started paying off our car and our credit card debt, selling anything off that we're not using or that's taking up space.

We have two children under six. And I keep having to explain to them why we're not making trips to the Dollar Tree anymore, weekly trips to the Dollar Tree. My oldest noticed that I'm selling things and offered to let me sell some of her prized possessions because she thinks we need the money.

were going through tough times with little kids, did you have an open discussion with them about what was going on? And if so, how did you have that conversation? Uh, you know, I might toss this to Dave a little bit because for me and Sam, it was just us. We didn't have little kids. Uh, it was us going through it. And nowadays,

if I were teaching that lesson, and I feel like it's still something that you're ongoingly, you know, talking about, for us, it really is just number one, hey, every time we go out of the house, we don't have to buy something. Like, that's just kind of an ongoing thing. They don't expect to buy something every time we go out of the house. Um, and then in my house, Dave, we're just really big on personal responsibility, period. So, we have not had to address

it in the way that she's having to address it. Um, but I I mean,

immediately my mind goes to what Rachel Cruz says, which is share, don't scare.

>> Share what's going on. You know, we're selling the things we don't need. We're um you know, we're making good decisions with our money, not if we don't make this money, this payment, we're all going to be out on the streets, right? Like, you don't need to go to certain extremes that they can't understand anyway. six, you know, four and three and two-year-olds, they don't understand it anyway.

>> Exactly. It would sound more like this.

It would be, "Honey, it's so sweet that you would want to sell one of your things to help." >> Mhm. >> And thanks for being part of the family and wanting to chip in like that. But I don't want you to have to do that. This is something your dad and I are doing >> because we've realized that we had been doing some things wrong and we're starting to undo them.

We're selling some stuff off. We're cleaning up some debt. We're managing our money more carefully. And so we're not spending as much as we used to and we're selling off some old things.

>> Everything's fine. >> Uh it's just a change >> and don't let the change disturb you. Uh but we're not going to be going to the dollar store as much because we're trying to do this. And no, you don't need to sell off your stuff. I'm selling off mine >> and your stuff's not your stuff's okay.

And the family's fine.

>> Yeah. Like you said, share, don't scare off. >> And it's just it's your tone. And

the weird the weird thing is with little ones and I was just spent the week with ours with our grandkids.

Less is more. >> They move on very quickly >> in conversations. Like we want to go like get all philosophical and give them a seven minute diet tribe on it. And they wanted one sentence answers.

>> Uhhuh. So they can move on. >> Yeah. They really have something else to do. They're busy little people. I'm just saying >> they do. Oh boy. Yeah.

>> Isn't that the truth? I mean they just quick. I mean, I forget how short their attention span is. So, it's just, you

know, your tone, honey. Dad and I are changing some things. We We have been spending too much and we're going to spend a little less and that includes the dollar store stuff, but and we're selling off some stuff, but you're fine and family's fine. Matter of fact, we're going to be absolutely great because we're doing these things.

And so, it's a time to celebrate in a sense. >> And they usually completely change the subject. Can I have a snack? Yes.

And move on. >> Don't use the word snack.

fish. Yeah. All right. Here we go. Ann

is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Ann. How are you?

>> Oh my gosh. Happy New Year, Papa Dave.

>> Happy New Year. What's up?

>> Is there going to be a baby step 5B with the new Trump accounts? >> No.

>> Are you sure?

Money. >> It's not that much money.

Oh, but family can put in $5,000.

>> The family can put in $5,000 into a 529.

>> Yes. But this one can be a 529 and a

Roth IRA.

>> It can be anything education.

>> Yeah. Family can family can help with all that. No, I wouldn't I wouldn't use that. I would not be doing be doing any of this. Um I'm a I'm a fan of some of

the things the president is doing. Uh, I'm not a fan of some of the things the president is doing. Um, and I I think this is a political stunt. I I really I'm not we're not doing any We're not No, we're not changing for this. It's not It's not that big a deal. You've got other ways to save it. It's not as revolutionary as the original Roth was.

It's not as revolutionary as the 529 is.

Um, it's none of those things. And

but it it's a, you know, it's a way that somehow we can $1,000, you know, and that kind of thing. And yeah, yeah, you can add to it and family can add to it, but I just um it it's just spreading

around of money to get people's attention to a political office.

>> I agree with that. >> And um I I personally wouldn't do it. Um I wouldn't fool with it. I don't think it's worth the trouble. If it was worth if you could do a lot with it, it'd be one thing, but >> no, I appreciate the question though.

It's very interesting. Yeah, I looked at them and I kind of yawned.

>> I don't think I don't think it's as big of a deal as people are making it out.

And I would agree with you. It's just kind of like a It's like a squirrel that you can chase. Squirrel. Yeah. And it's it's like a money squirrel. >> Yeah. Yeah. Some something flashy to get your eye off of something else. >> Yeah. I agree. Um Yeah. There's worse

things you could do, but there's also better things you could do. >> Oh, it wouldn't It's not horrible. It's just not It's kind of like the Acorns app. >> Exactly. >> I can put in my spare change

>> into an app. >> Mhm. >> You can put your spare change in a jar.

>> Yeah. But I mean, that's not going to make you rich.

>> A nickel here or seven cents there.

You're burning more calories than that.

Screwing with this. It's just crazy.

>> The best thing, the best thing it will do is get people thinking about investing in general, which I think that's good because I think a lot of people go through life and not really even think about could I invest, could I? >> If it gets you off the couch and gets you investing because you're Yeah. Then I'm game. >> Anything that gets you going, right?

Almost anything.

>> This is not bad. It's just not big enough to be great. >> A big deal. Yeah, >> it's not huge. Yeah. >> As as I was That's good. I was gonna make a joke. Yours was better. >> Landon is in Dallas. Hey, Landon. What's up? >> Oh, not much. How are you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Fantastic. Um, so my wife and I are both debt free and we are well on our way.

Just a couple months away from our six-month emergency fund. and I am looking to start a uh getting ready to start a handyman/reodel business with a friend from church and I want to know what steps we should both take so that we are both protected from potentially dumb decisions.

>> Uh I would not form a partnership.

>> Okay, that's the step I would take. I would just say um you know we're going to work on this job together and if you want to split the profits that's fine.

uh after you've done 10 jobs that way, if you want to formalize it and say, um,

I work for you or you work for me and the compensation is half the profits, but you own it or I own it, that's fine.

Anything with two heads is a monster and the only ship that won't sell is a partnership. It's a good way to screw things up. There's no reason for this to be a partnership except that you got a guy you like and a guy you trust that you want to work with. You can do that on an employer employee basis or you can do that on a one job at a time basis without forming a formal partnership.

But um we coach about 10,000 small businesses Landon through Entree leadership. The number of small businesses that a partnership survives

over 10 years is very clo it's well

under 5%. 95% of them are gone. The the

major exception would be law firms and medical practices. is they do partnerships a different way, different structure and so on. Uh, and they're much more adept at it. But two guys in a construction business, still partners after 10 years of doing it, almost zero.

>> Two guys of heat and air business, almost zero. Two ladies in massage therapy, almost zero. You know, I mean, whatever, whatever the thing is that two, we need two of you. It's okay. You don't have to have it. You can just be >> I I I share profits with a lot of people here as if they're partners, but we don't have any partners. It's that simple. Good question. Good show, Jade.

It >> was fun. >> Well, good show to the gang in the booth. Well done, booth people. That puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

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## 83. Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt | September 22, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:07:08 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is88255225.

[Music] You ready to go, partner? I am ecstatic.

I see you got your uh really fancy uh

denim jacket on today. I saved the best for you. >> I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas. Kathy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh I'm 68 years old and six months ago I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 from my brother. He invested 110. I retired from my company. I took

out all my 401k and pension. And uh last

month they ghosted us and froze our accounts and we lost it all. I lost 487,000.

My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and 110 he invested. And my brother would like his money. >> Oh boy. >> And and I have a house that's paid off.

I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. Um, I have a $30,000 loan from

American Express. So, I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy? Do I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my house is My husband died, so my house is not uh in

in good enough condition.

>> I'm just lost. >> Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. >> You know, that's that's an unbelievable.

>> Yeah. And I'm so sorry.

>> Is this scam still out there?

Um I'm it probably is. I filed with, you

know, FBI and all the agencies, but they

didn't have a whole lot of hope for me.

>> Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. So, how much debt total do you have right now? You said you have 30k on an American Express card, >> right? That was a loan. The other two are 2,000 um maybe 3,000 total. So, 33,000.

>> So, 33,000. And I know you retired recently. >> Um. >> Yes. >> What is your what is the future look like as far as work? Because that's we absolutely have to consider that right now. >> Oh, I know. I've been applying but I'm like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales so I can do that.

But I'm, you know.

>> How long have you been out of the workforce?

>> Uh, since May. End of May.

>> What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on?

>> Um, my job once you quit you you're

gone. >> I'm easily replaceable.

>> Okay.

Wow. Well, bankruptcy, you know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth >> bankruptcy over this. Yeah.

>> Cuz you just you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back, >> right? >> And the pension as well. So, you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, took cashed out every dime of your retirement, and threw it into this course.

>> Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month social security. Now, >> what is your >> $500?

2,000. I make 2,000 a month.

>> And then what was the other thing you were about to mention? 500 something.

>> I promised my brother $500 a month.

>> Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money. >> Sorry. Brother is on his own. We you both got screwed in this and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back.

>> Okay. >> I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly. >> No, I got him. And >> okay, >> it doesn't matter.

>> Due diligence. >> It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on team Kathy. So, I I misunderstood.

Uh but no, you can't take care of brother. Brother's got to take care of himself. You both You both made a poor decision and and now we got to figure out >> you were what the bank would call a risky borrower.

>> Well, he had he had faith in me and and he's I've never disappointed him before.

So >> well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments cuz you got to put food on the table. >> Can you live off of 2,000 a month?

Um my my bills really are $800 a month

um plus food and then my homeowner's

insurance and um uh

>> so all in what does it take to run your house for a month include food include HOA every single little thing?

>> Yeah, pretty much 2,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So you're just going to hopefully survive and that's where getting a job is going to come into play. Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm gonna jump in real quick on the job thing because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work.

Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think uh you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about now. I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, Walmart, Target. I mean, you're you're functional.

We need income and if we can get some benefits out of that. So, I mean, you're you're doing everything you can and your number one goal right now is to tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying.

I I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that. But you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I

think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person, uh, who has lived her life well,

I this is where we can't do this on our

own.

>> We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. I

mean, we No advice that George and I will give you um is going to alleviate

that fact.

This is the time to go, everybody. I know, here's my story. here's what's going on and and this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm gonna help Kathy and I'm going to give Kathy a job. Uh that's what has to happen right now.

What is your house worth?

>> Uh probably 350 for a flipper. It's on

paper that they >> What do you mean for a flipper? you know, if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money.

>> I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent, what could you get for it?

>> Uh, well, I asked and they said 375 to 425. >> Okay. So, your house is worth about $400,000. I would keep it for now. Try to stay afloat. Try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason. You could sell the house, downsize, and invest the difference to

try to create a little bit of a nest egg.

>> Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. >> No, >> but that >> I mean, they will just screw you with all the fees. You're going to lose all the equity in your home.

>> Um, you know, it's it's a terrible, horrible financial product and they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

Uh Kathy, I'm gonna ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly.

>> Um George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take

the entire proceeds and get that back in the the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years? I I as you said that, I just What do you What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean that was my my initial thought was could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it and live off of the growth. There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to be.

>> I don't want to live off of it. >> We don't know how long it'll last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that play that card later on down the road when necessary instead of just going to that route and then not working at all. That's my fear.

So Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand that can just get these scammers to give you your money back.

The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So, you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next.

[Music]

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Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

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All right, Chris is up next in Houston, Texas. Chris, how can we help today?

>> Well, Ken, yours, thanks for taking my call today. You're my favorite combo.

>> Oh, wow. We will send you a check.

Kelly, make sure we pay the man. Make it a Venmo. Yeah, Vinmo, make it easier.

>> Thank you. Yeah, >> thank you, Chris. Appreciate that.

What's going on? >> Okay, so um my wife and I are really concerned really right now about our future retirement. Um so, just a little background, don't have anything saved.

um don't have 3 to 6 months expenses.

Just started doing the Ramsy steps. I'm on baby step two. Um so we're we're

we're talking about selling our home to get the equity out of it. Um to basically just pay everything off and just kind of start fresh and be able to put some money back um and then start, you know, investing 15%. Like the random step says, but um I'm not sure if that's

the right answer to do that or not. Um, the other option is I keep working like a madman like I've been doing. Um, keep the house, but we have a pool and I don't know if that should be like included like with the mortgage payment even though they're separate or that's considered consumer debt with our car note.

>> How big is the pool loan?

>> Uh, the pool loan is 73,000.

>> And what's your household income?

>> Uh, about about 8,200 a month after

taxes. >> Okay. Okay. What about before? Just give me the gross household income for >> 128. 128.

>> Yeah. I would put it uh up there with your mortgage. Since it's over half of your annual income, we'd kind of treat that like a like a second mortgage at that point. >> Okay. >> And so I would focus on a consumer debt first. How much does all that add up to?

>> Um well, we paid off all the credit cards, which is about 16 grand. Um now we have all we have left besides the pool is a card, which is about $27,000.

>> What's the car worth?

42. >> Oh, I know what we're doing there, George. Tell him what he's won. You just won $15,000, my friend. That's the difference. If you sold that car and took the proceeds and got something cash, you just freed up a payment and became consumer debtree.

>> And let's let's let's stay right there, Chris. How much is that car payment?

>> Uh, it's 500 a month. >> All right. So, we just found you 15,000 in cash and we then saved you six grand

a year of net income. Hello.

See that magic trick right there?

>> Yes. >> And we still have a place to rest our head that we can call our own. >> So, what you won is a uh cheaper car.

That's what you want. Now, what is the What's the mortgage? >> My wife wins. But >> what's that? Say that again.

>> Unfortunately, that's what my wife wins. I >> Is she Is she on board with this?

>> She is. If that's what we have to do.

Yes, >> it is what you have to do.

>> Okay. >> Well, here's the thing. Do you want to be eating alpo in retirement? but have a nice car or do we want to make a short-term sacrifice so we can retire with dignity? That's the trade-off here.

>> Wow. We're not trying to punish you.

>> Right to the dog food.

>> That was dark. And it's honestly dog food's not cheap. I take that back. I tell you, my dogs eat really good food.

It's going to be ramen, I guess. >> But, you know, Chris, the reason I'm saying you guys have to do this is because you're 53 and you don't have any retirement. So, we have got Now, now this is where George is like, I love I love when George Oh, I see him doing I wish you could see him right now. He's already got he does the onehand keyboard thing. He's got the Ramsay investment calculator which you can access at ramseysolutions.com.

So the reason we're going to be super aggressive here is because you guys can catch you you can start to make headway, but we're talking we got to sell the car and it lists today and we have got to

change. So let's let's run the numbers, George. >> Yeah. Are you guys in in pretty good health?

>> So that's a good question. So I had a heart attack back in March. Um, and I've

changed a lot. My health has gotten a lot better for sure. I've gone through tests and all that stuff right now. Um, and and so, so that kind of leads me to, you know, I've been, you know, I work my regular job, which I work 50 plus hours at. I've been door dashing on the side about another 50 hours a week.

>> Wow. >> Which is a lot because I'm working every single day from morning to night.

>> How long you been doing that door dashing? >> I've been doing the door dashing now for about 3 months. Did you include that in the credit cards? >> Okay, good for you. Did you include that though in the number you gave us on the 128,000 gross?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, I did not because I don't know how long I could sustain that because I'm working every Saturday. Only day I'm taking off is a Sunday. That's it. >> Okay. And what about your wife?

>> Uh my wife works as well. She works full-time. Uh her her money is included in that number as well. >> Okay. And what are you guys doing for work? Are is there area for growth here?

>> Uh yeah, I'm in sales. I mean, there's potential for commission. Um, I just started a new job.

>> No commission right now, >> Chris. That is far better than driving Uber. Forget Uber. Number one, >> spend 50 hours on the phones and emails selling. >> Yeah, I'm no uh doctor. I would like to play one on TV. I want to point that out. >> And he would make a great one. >> I think I would look good in scrubs. But uh the point here is is that your better your your health and the financial ROI

for you is way better to go after that commission. But even at the 128, George, let's paint a picture here. If we sell the car and so we we come up with 15

cash. So we got 15, George, to work with. >> Yeah. You take that 15, you buy yourself a used cash car. >> There we go. >> And then you're debtree. Now we can work on the emergency fund. So for the next, let's call it six to eight months, just stack away cash to build up that emergency fund. Then we can begin investing. So let's just paint a picture. You're a year from now, you're 54, right?

>> Yes. >> And you're debtree with an emergency fund. And we begin investing 15% of our income. That's about 1,600 bucks a month. Are you tracking?

>> Yes. by the age of 70. Now, this is assuming you're going to have to work longer because we got a late start. You would have $750,000 likely in that one account.

Now, we're talking, okay, we could, if we have a paid for house and 750 grand in the bank, we have a fighting chance of surviving. Right. >> Now, what that doesn't include, Chris, is those commissions and more income socking it away.

>> What's left on the mortgage? What's the balance? >> 370. >> Okay. Okay. And how many years left on the mortgage?

>> Uh, took out a 30-year note when we bought the house. So, I still have 26 years on it. >> Woo. >> What's it worth? >> That's why that's why we're talking about selling the house. >> What can you get for the house? >> Fresh about 600.

>> So, that would you'd walk away with roughly what?

Um, when I look at the numbers, I think I would walk away with about 180, but

then paying off the car and the pool,

>> um, that leave me with about 100, I think. >> Yeah, then I have to put, no pun intended, the pool. Exactly.

>> I see what you did there. >> But then with the pool, I mean, I'm sorry, what would I have left would be about 20% on the house, which only leave me with about $11,000.

>> Yeah. But >> put towards the 3 to six months expenses. I Yeah, I like it's aggressive. Uh allows you to start with the emergency fund immediately uh and

start investing and you guys can downsize. It's just the two of you.

>> No, we have two two more kids at home, but you know, they're they're older, so they'll be out at some point. >> That's right. They they they live where we tell them to live. >> George, what do you think about this? I'm actually leaning towards this. I like this move. I'm trying to think what would you go rent somewhere for a while and just keep stacking cash because you're not going to be able to afford anything for 180.

>> Well, that doesn't pay off. >> We would need to go find We have to Well, if we sold it for 600, I think I like if we sold it for 600 today, I could pay off the pool and the car >> and be able to um end up with about after I put 20% down on a house on a 15-year note. Um, I think I would have about $11,000 left

>> and then it'd be quicker there then to start, you know, saving for retirement as soon as I get that built up.

>> Yeah, you're just you're going to be back to having a giant mortgage is my fear >> with today's rates and today's prices.

So, that's the part you have to weigh. I would crunch those numbers heavily. I just selling a house is always the last answer, not my first solution because number one, it doesn't actually change the behavior that got us here. It just feels like a get out of jail free card and it kind of moves you backwards.

Instead of building equity and and getting that house paid off, now we're liquidating and starting from scratch again in our 50s. And so I would I wouldn't I would hesitate before just jumping on that. But I love the idea of you guys getting debtree faster, having more to retire with. Uh but you would also have to go we're going to downsize our lifestyle and change.

I don't like the idea of you just keeping everything going, well, we're gonna keep the car, keep the pool, keep living how we're living, and get the cake, too.

>> Agreed. And I feel like if we keep the house, then I just don't see in an end

in sight how we could pay off the house eventually. >> I just feel like it with the income where it's at, even if I go up another 20 30,000, I just don't see how I pay off the house. >> Yeah, George, I I'm I'm uh I'm going to tell you, I like the aggressive approach here. I rarely disagree with you, but I like where he's at to reset, even if they've got to rent at this stage for a couple of years.

I think a reset to try to really get focused on retirement investing. I don't know. It's aggressive, but I like it. It's a reset for sure.

[Music]

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Danielle is up in Cleveland, Ohio.

Danielle, how can we help today?

>> Oh, hi. How are you doing today? Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure.

>> Um so my question is um whether we are

on baby step two or six.

Uh reason being is so >> is this a trick question?

>> The riddle wrapped in a rhyme.

>> It it really is truly. Uh we were all

excited. Um we were debtree. We were baby step six right now. Um so all we have left is our mortgage. Um we didn't take into consideration that we do actually have a vehicle loan out for our son who is paying it. Um but it is in our name. So, does that mean that we go

back to baby step two?

Um, should we consider going ahead and paying the loan off while still making him responsible for it or continue on

with um putting everything towards our mortgage as we have been? >> Do you have the cash to pay it off today?

>> Well, so we we have our emergency fund, our, you know, six-month emergency fund.

And so we were thinking that if that loan puts us back to baby step two, that technically we should use that to pay it off and then we hurry up and re, you know, rebuild our six months.

>> All right, George, tell her tell her what's left on the loan.

>> Uh 18,000. >> Okay. And is he making payments right now or are you guys making?

>> No, we do not make the payments. He makes the car payments, the car insurance, all of that. Hm.

>> The loan just happens to be in our name.

>> Well, you owe the money. If he stops making payments, it's on you. So, it's your debt. Correct. >> Even if someone else is currently making the payment. And I hope he continues to make the payment and do the honorable thing. Um what if uh is he making the payment directly to the lender or is he sending you guys the money and you you actually do the transaction?

>> Yeah, we make the transaction. We we actually he gives us the money, we make the payments. I'm just wondering if you guys paid it off, but you make him continue to make payments to you guys.

That sort of gives him the responsibility of what he said he would do, which is make the car payments while absolving you guys of the risk, the debt, all of that and the interest.

>> So, that's kind of the way we were leaning. Um, same thoughts. Um because

at the end of the day, we do have even if it fell on us, if he for some reason something happened and he stopped making the payments, we have the money um to

pay it. We just weren't sure if if we should go ahead and use emergency fund and then go ahead and rebuild that, which we could do in about >> what's in savings right now.

>> Um so we have 25 in our six month um

emergency fund. Um, and then we have a couple other accounts with, you know, um, like let's say 5,000 in one and a

couple thousand in the other. Um, okay.

>> But we have no we have no other debt other than our mortgage. Um, so really all most of our money is is thinking funds and then and paying extra on our mortgage to get debt paid off.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, if we're going to talk semantics in the baby steps, you are in baby step two. Uh, and we would consider this uh, you know, where you're going to liquidate your savings to pay off any debt, >> just like we would tell anyone in Baby Step 2, >> and you'll rebuild it really fast. I would have him continue to make the payments unless you just go, "Hey, bud.

You're off the hook.

>> You're, you know, congratulations.

>> Mom and dad just wanted to be generous.

Early inheritance for you.

>> We want him to be responsible. We we're trying to now get him in, you know, Ramsay program and and started him ath

to pay for his vehicle.

>> Good. Well, the if you want the truly responsible thing, it's the discipline to actually save up and pay cash for his next car. >> And so just making payments has left a lot of people broke.

>> Agreed. Yes. >> So, uh it's an it's an honorable thing that you guys have followed the steps. And I would talk to him, you know, I don't know when, but say, "Hey, this was a mistake.

Uh, we we want to do everything with cash. We don't want to owe people money. It's going to free us up mentally, emotionally, financially, and we wish the same for you." >> Oh, I have to tell you, George, if we could go back in time, if if we were if >> I want to sing if I could turn back time, >> please do it. >> I won't.

>> Is that right? >> Yeah. They've been very busy lately, Ken. >> Oh, I see what you did there, too. Right out of the headlines. We're having a good time. >> You are on it today. But I didn't know you watch the news to be honest.

>> I try to keep up. There's so much.

>> I'm trying to help Danielle. I'm trying to keep up with the news. >> Well, Danielle, I'm so happy for you guys. You're going to be debtree today.

>> Oh, I know. You I have to tell you. I know you guys hear this a lot, but you are my favorite duo and I really appreciate all of your advice and and how helpful you all are. >> That's so kind.

By the way, if anyone's keeping score, that's two for Ken and George today. >> If we get three, we get a race. >> Is that right? Oh, okay.

Let's milk that. Okay. >> Oh, that's a great question from Danielle. >> It is actually a really good question, Danielle.

And I don't know if you caught it. She said they could rebuild their emergency fund in three months. So, really the absolute best move right here. But you got to tell Sparky, you know.

>> Yeah, >> you got to tell him. >> Well, you don't tell him because then he goes, "Wait, mom and dad aren't making." >> You know, I'm actually glad you said that because I wonder, do you tell Sparky? >> Is it deceitful? I don't That part is the ethical part of me goes, "I don't know.

It's kind of like good philosophical. I don't think it's deceitful. >> What about charging? the loan off.

They pay it off.

They don't have to tell him they paid it off. >> That was my thinking. Regardless, >> I think to your point, it puts him in a temp kind of a temptation situation where he's like, "Oh, mom and dad paid it off and I'm going to flake out and put their love to the test. >> Maybe I'll miss a payment this month." >> I hope Sparky's listening. I might be reading his mail. I might be reading his mail. >> Yeah. >> Uh Rex is up next in Houston, Texas.

Rex, how can we help?

>> Uh yes. I just have a question. I'm 66 years old, still working. I have a 401k

IRA and my question is, should I take

money out of my IRA or 401k to pay off my existing debt?

>> How much do you have in the retirement accounts and how much debt do you have?

>> Um IRA is 1.1, the uh 401k is 200,000.

Debt's about 300,000.

>> What kind of debt?

>> Uh that's including my mortgage.

a school loan, uh, personal loan, cars,

and, uh, credit card.

>> Wow, you got a little full bucket there.

>> Yeah. At 66, I would want to simplify my life. And so, you would deplete 300,000 out of your 1.3. So, it' bring you down to a million >> somewhere around there. Yes.

>> I like this plan because here's what it does. It frees up all of those payments.

So, if you added all of those payments up, the mortgage, the consumer debts, what would that be every single month?

>> Uh, it's about $4,500.

>> Woo. Now, could you then invest that exact amount? Could you promise me in America that you would do that?

>> Well, pretty close. I mean, right now, I put uh 10% from my paycheck into my 401k

and an additional 5% into savings.

>> So, here's my thinking. Are you going to work for another five years per se or what's your plan?

>> Yeah, the plan is is to uh I'm not

taking social security either right now. So when I went to 70 to take social security, plan is to work to 72.

>> Wow. Well, I did some math for you. If you take that 4,500 bucks and you start investing it from 66 to 71, you would end up with 348. So you will have more money than this debt was costing you.

>> Okay? And also if I take it out of there, of course I don't have a penalty of being 66, but I am in the high tax

bracket. >> So you are it's all in traditional. So you would pay taxes on that.

>> Yes, traditional IRA.

>> Yeah, I would sit down with a a tax pro or a smart vester pro. You can jump on ramiesolutions.com, crunch some numbers and see, hey, maybe I knock out consumer debts this year and the mortgage next year and try to minimize some of the the tax damage. But either way, you're going to be debtree real soon, my friend. And I would consider maybe selling these cars if we have some equity in these cars. Let's let's not rob from oursel.

Let's let's have some discipline on that. >> Minimize the damage. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call, Rex.

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>> All right, let's go to John in Kentucky.

John, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Good. How are you, sir?

>> Blessed. Blessed. Um, just a a quick question. Uh, I recently was promoted and um with the expectations of moving out in uh Colorado and um the job's been

great and I'm trying to find out either a what kind of home price I should be looking at to make sure that um when my

wife we have our first child, she can work from home or just not work at all.

um or if I should end up renting for a

year or two to be able to put down a lot more on the home.

>> Great question. Okay, lay out some numbers for us.

>> Yeah, so um currently I'm in sales, but

uh minimum is usually about 17K per month. Um some months it's really great up to 30, but it's usually between 17 to 22,000 for for my income.

>> Amazing. hers is about 5K per month, but

with we're expecting to bring her home after the first child. >> Okay. So, we'll just remove that income from the equation. And you're going, hey, how much house can I afford if I make about 20K a month?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what are you looking at right now? What what price range?

>> Yeah. So, um we're looking between

300 to 500,000. Um, but I've also been

speaking with a realtor about trying to find an assumable loan. I do have the option for a VA, uh, which would definitely help with lowering that monthly income or the monthly home price. >> Well, what it'll do is just allow you to get in with less equity, less down payment. >> And so, that part worries me, especially for a guy making this kind of money. Are you guys not in a good financial position? Do you have debt?

>> Uh, no. I've spent the last few months paying off all uh any credit cards, anything like that. Um she has a car loan that has a little less than 10K. Um I've got about 35,000 in the savings. Um about 20 to 25 that I

could access through the 401k. Um and then with sales, I should be expecting another 15 to 20,000 before we decide to pull the trigger. >> John, are you familiar with our baby steps? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, when you tell us you have 35,000 sitting over in savings and your wife is carrying a $10,000 car loan, what do you think we're thinking?

>> Could get that paid off immediately.

>> Yeah. So, this is fun. I love when someone else knows what we're going to say. So, >> sure. >> The question I have is what is keeping you from doing that knowing that that's what we were going to tell you to do?

>> Yeah, that's that's a great question.

Um, one of the things that I've been thinking about is with her coming home, um, is it worth paying off the car now or is it worth making sure that I have

the emergency fund saved up in case something ever happened to me or the job that we would have a nest egg to then

make decisions on finding a new job or going from there. >> When is she coming home?

>> Um, we are trying now. So, it 9 to 12

months. You get what I'm saying here? I already knew the answer. You don't know when she's coming home.

>> Sir, >> you guys, she's not even pregnant.

>> Sure. >> And so I'm adjusting these numbers to what you gave me. You guys, you immediately in laying out the numbers for George, you discounted her 5K a month. That actually takes your range of income between 22 and 27, not 17 and 22.

To George's point, you you're rolling, buddy. And so getting up a really good down payment is not going to take long with those numbers. Am I right, George?

>> Yeah. And you have a lot of flexibility with your level of income. Well, our parameter is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay going towards this mortgage. And that includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, um, all of that, the homeowners

insurance. And so with your income, if you bought a $500,000 house with a h 100,000 down with a 15-year fix, you'd likely be looking at a payment of about 37.50 50 a month, >> which is very reasonable if you consistently make 17 or 20k a month.

Agreed. >> Yeah. >> And so, >> so having a down payment of that, could you save up a h 100red grand over the next 12 months?

>> Yeah, easily. The I guess I should have mentioned um there is an expectation of moving out there uh before February

March time frame. So, that's kind of the thing I'm >> Where's the expectation coming from?

from taking the job the promotion.

>> Yeah. But you don't have to buy a house just because you're taking the job.

>> Correct. And that's >> I rented for two years with three kids.

When I moved here 11 years ago, I rented a very much smaller house.

>> Um because we wanted for us it wasn't just the financial. It was I didn't want to make a massive decision like that about where my kids were going to be until I knew the area. So I love this question, John. And I say this I want you to feel older brother vibes here.

Okay. I love how planning and how

intense you are and all this stuff, but

dude, take a deep breath. You have no idea how quickly you guys are going to get pregnant and and you can pay off her car today. As soon as you hang up the phone, you still have 25 in cash and between the money you guys have, >> your 25 another 25K is going to slip through your hands in the next 30 days.

So, I wouldn't be worried about the emergency. You're going to be stacking up cash so fast. uh es especially once this car payment's gone, which I know it's not a lot comparatively to your uh income, but I would just be stacking cash and rent for life.

>> Rent, rent, rent until you guys get

planted in this new place. You guys are a young couple. How long have you been married? >> Uh less than a year. >> Oh, good heavens. You guys are just learning how to be married.

>> Yeah. >> How old are you, John?

>> Uh 32. >> 32. Um yeah, man. Like this is exciting.

This call is great. >> And then you mention you mentioned the 401k. Never touch that retirement account if you're not 59 and a half.

You're essentially taking on a loan for 35% by cashing that out early. So I

would just leave that money alone. You have a great income. Go rent in February in that new city. Sign a 6 or 9month lease. And by this time next year, you're going to have a $100,000 in a down payment account and you can get a half million dollar home. And it's going to be so peaceful to do it slow and

steady instead of rushing into all this at once. Especially when you're bringing a baby into this world, man, that just adds a whole another layer of stress and nesting. And so, you don't want to be moving while she's 8 and a half months pregnant. >> Yeah. And just what and to that point, I just want to give you one other little encouragement.

>> Even if she got pregnant tomorrow and the baby's I mean, the income if you have no debt and the income you have, you're fine. you you'll build up the emergency that 35. You're going to replenish that. You've got more than enough to take care of this baby. All right. So, I love your earnest intensity. I really do. You're a sharp young guy. You're you're in good shape.

Good shape. I appreciate it.

>> Just breathe, man. You know,

>> yeah, that's been the the tough part is just trying to make sure, you know, in introducing new family that I do everything right. >> Well, buddy, I I'm going to tell you something. You're a poster child.

I mean, you are you are just a you know, if you look up fine young man in the dictionary, nobody uses that terminology except people that are young man. Well, I'm 51, folks. That's we have a we have an expanded vocabulary. All right. Can I get some love in the lobby? You've heard you've used the phrase that see clap if I've ever seen what it is. No, that was a nice par putt clap is what that was.

Respectable. Uh, but you listen, John,

you are absolutely doing a phenomenal

job of of providing for you, your wife,

your future family. You are way ahead of how, George, just to put you on the spot because you're in the numbers on this particular stuff more than I am. The average 32year-old, if you were going to make something up, an educated guess versus John, to encourage John and and also to paint the picture for other people that to be in his spot. What would you say the average 32 year old dude uh his financial picture looks like in America?

>> Uh probably has a big truck that's about 700 bucks. Probably still has his student loans. Probably still fooling with credit cards.

month. >> So this picture I'm just like this kid is going places. uh he just got to tweak a few things and have a little bit of patience, but he's going to be catapulted when he's making 20 grand a month, no debt, with a reasonable house payment, which means he's going to pay that house off early. Mom's going to be at home, not stressed, taking care of the baby, raising the family.

This is this is a poster child for the baby steps if he can do this right. >> Yeah. So, John, man, we are we are team John and you've done such a good job and it's really important to be able to get perspective. So glad you called today.

if we could just be a little bit of a sounding board to go, man, you're doing great. You just got to, as George said, the tweaks and and enjoy life and and don't be so scared because you are really really in great shape and uh we're praying for you guys. Hope the baby and all that everything comes along when you want it to. It's such an exciting time.

Uh you're doing well, young man.

[Music]

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken

Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside my pal George Camel. We're here for you.8825 88 8255225.

We go to Ohio next where Jennifer is waiting for us. Jennifer, how can we help today? >> Hi, I'm a lot more nervous than I thought I would be. >> Well, it's George. He's intimidating and uh >> it's the height mostly. >> Just know that I'm here to just take care of you. I'll make sure he's nice.

>> Okay. >> So, um I'm on uh babysat 2 and I'm still

about $50,000 in debt. Um, however, um,

I'm sorry, I don't want to cry on my on the phone. >> It's okay. It's okay. >> I have to make a hard decision to say goodbye to my buddy, my dog next week.

>> About 17 and I've had him 15 years and he's been with me. He's moved across to another country with me and all the things. >> What's his name? >> Um, his name is Ulisses.

>> Ulisses.

>> Yeah. But you know, like Ulisses and then my last name like the general name.

I love that historical name.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm nerding out right now.

>> What kind of dog? >> Yeah, what kind?

>> I don't know. He's um he's some kind of poodle mix. Um his first owner was a hoarder and I think was was trying to um

>> like breed dogs or something. It was a bad situation. So, he's >> he's just a sweet >> he's a total love bug, you know? He's he's almost 17 and >> well right now like his tail would still wag if he'd come up and try to He's He's just lovely. >> Well, listen, you're talking to two dog lovers here.

>> I was hoping I'd get you, too.

>> We We We hurt for you. This is not fun.

Okay, so we got this hard decision coming up. Tell us what else is going on. >> Well, so here's what I've done. And I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that financially I've done the right thing. So, part of how I knocked out the debt was I had a non-retirement mutual fund and I cashed that out and um what I did is I knew

this was probably coming. So, I took $400 um and I put it in a scing fund

just in my savings account to say when and if where I'm struggling and I hate it. Guess what I want to do is have him cremated and get the earn back like I did for my other dog. Yeah. >> But that's $200 more.

I do have the money in the scing fund. Um, I just I'm struggling with like I've been so good about I don't eat out rice and beans, beans and rice. Um, I'm doing handmade gifts instead of gifting.

of just 40 to get my my pup's and his ashes back. And I know not everyone agrees with that.

>> Well, what's the other option if you didn't do it?

>> Well, there's two. So, one is it's just $40 for the cremation and I I just pay that and I don't get them back. They just >> Okay, gotcha. I'm sorry. >> They do that like in math. And then, um the other the least expensive is I could bury him in my parents' backyard. But, um I I can't pick him up once he's gone.

Like, I don't think I can't do it. Like, I'm even having a panic attack thinking about it. >> Oh, well, that's tough. That's tough stuff. >> Jennifer, spend the 240.

>> Just spend it. You're never going to look back and go, "Dang it. Why did I spend that 240 bucks? I could have got out of debt 4 days sooner.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. I just I've been so diligent about like everything that it's like, >> yeah, >> this is not an impulsive girl trip.

>> Yeah. This is not craziness. This is like a big This is a huge deal. All of

us who've had to put a a furry friend down. >> Uh it is tough.

>> And And this is a >> Yeah. You're not like emotionally spending to go, you know, retail therapy. This is something that that you want to do as your way to say goodbye.

It's it's not going to derail your financial journey. >> And if it really makes you feel guilty, here's what I would do psychologically.

Go make 240 bucks doing something, selling something as part of this journey as a way to say, you know what, I didn't derail my financial goals and I got to grieve the way I wanted to grieve. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

We're so sorry you're going through this. >> Give you give him some love for George and I a little extra pat for the best boy. >> I will. I will. >> Yeah. >> Thank you so much. >> Oh my gosh.

>> What is it about dogs and pets that just

>> crushes? It's the unconditional love and innocence. >> Yes. And can we just say I love naming

dogs. It's one of my favorite things in life. >> What's your dog names? >> Uh we've got Ellis and Honey. Oh,

>> and they are doodles. Ellis is the big guy. He's like that white perfect curl

like he just And he's a human. He's Ellis thinks he's a human. >> I've stared into his eyes. >> You have. And I've I treat Ellis as though he's a human. And then Honey is our mini golden doodle. And our daughter actually owns She bought her. That was a big thing, big purchase for Josie, our daughter, and she did it. And she's just

a little miniature doodle. And she owns

me. I mean, you know what I mean? She's just unbelievable. So, >> well, especially as the kids get older and they don't like you anymore. The dogs will always love you. I >> tell you who's always excited to see me when I walk in. Ellis and honey. Stacy's not always excited to see. >> And I don't blame her. I mean, let's be clear here. >> I mean, it's been how many years you've been married? 27. >> 27 years. You know, some days she just

doesn't want to see me. >> She goes, "Hey, Ken, you left the laundry out. What did I tell you?" >> Yeah. Stacy doesn't sound like that. I promise. >> I was going to say that's a horrible impression. Uh, let's go to Ben in Kentucky. Ben, how can we help today?

>> Well, I'm about to retire. Not that I want to. It's since the company's closing. >> And I have 300,000 in CDs,

and I'm wondering what to do with that.

And I also have 100,000 US savings bonds. I mean, do I leave them in CDs and savings bonds or should I put them somewhere else? >> Well, I mean, you're just leaving a lot of money on the table. You're basically just kind of keeping up with inflation, but you're not going to make anything above and beyond that.

So, if this money is going to sit there for the next 10 years, I'd much rather see it invested into the market instead of just on the sidelines. >> It's time for the investment calculator, George. >> Should we play the game? >> We should.

Like, what is it? Are you scared?

Well, the market I'm >> I'm about 67 68 years old and I'm just

worried in the market because uh well,

as you know, it doesn't always go up and sometimes it takes a long time to come back up and I just didn't want to lose it and I just don't know what to do. I I like it to be safe and that's why I was wondering. I mean, because I do have a little bit in stocks but not much. But >> well, the thing is when you say I want it to be safe, it's actually riskier to

leave it in there long term. >> Yeah. >> And the risk is instead of making 20 30%

this year, you're going to make 4%.

>> And you're going to go, what? How does what happened? My money just kept up with inflation. Well, could have turned into half a million. Quick thing on this, Ben. If the things, and I'm not going to make you tell us for sake of time, but if the things happen that you're worried about happening that would make money in the stock market risky, guess what?

Your money's not safe in the other situation either. And we're all probably in a bunker somewhere. I you just you

just have to play that out. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Like all of the apocalyptic things that would make you think, well, the CDs are safer. If that were to happen, the CDs, none of it matters.

You with me on that, George? Yeah.

>> I mean, I don't think that's an Let's get a bigger financial picture here. Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. >> Okay. Do you have a a nest egg outside of this money?

>> Um, well, I have a simple IRA and that's about 600,000.

>> Okay. So, you are invested in the market through that IRA.

>> Yes. Uh-huh. >> Well, you trusted the market on that one. And here's the math on it. from 68 to 75, you just leave that 300,000 in there into the market, it'll turn into 600,000. >> Oh, >> by 75, >> Ben.

>> So that's what you're that's just average rate of return 10%. So I would move that money over, leave enough maybe a year of expenses if you're in a retirement to to cover a market downturn, but I would not just leave half a million parked on the sidelines, my friend.

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[Music]

Hey folks, we'd love for you to share the show with folks that you think might enjoy it, that might need it. That's how we grow. You guys are the ultimate marketing campaign. If this show is in any way impacting you in a positive way, we'd love that. Subscribe, share, like, follow, all the things. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Caitlyn is up in Texas.

Caitlyn, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me? >> Yes. Loud and clear. What's going on?

>> Thank you. So, I My husband and I have been married for eight years. We have a seven-year-old autistic son and he has a

24 year old daughter from a previous marriage. Now, he was estranged from his daughter for a while. So, now they're they have a great relationship. But, um, we were talking and he said that he wants to give her 20% of his 401k

when he passed away, but when I'm still alive. And I feel very frustrated with

it. So, I don't know if I'm wrong or what I should do.

>> Oh, and did you tell him this how frustrated you are and why?

>> Yes. >> And how did he respond to that?

>> Well, his reasoning is because um he was

so he used to be a a he was in prison.

He was a drug addict at one point, but he got sober. now he's been sober for 13

years and he has rebuilt his relationship with his daughter and I think that he the money is trying to make up for lost time and that he doesn't want her to feel like he left her behind without thinking about her >> and she is and she is his daughter.

>> She is his daughter and she's 24. The reason why I'm frustrated is because my son, our son is special needs and I feel like he might not be able to take care of himself. And you know, we have a we

have a trust set up. It's a special needs trust. And I guess we have a will,

but I thought that all our assets were going to go into his will. I mean to his trust. And he's saying, "Well, that's fine, but 20% of my 401k is going to

her." >> Sure. Well, I'm just going to say that.

Let me ask another question. If this

daughter was your biological daughter, do you think you'd feel the same way?

>> Um, I mean, I I I maybe I think that

>> Let me put it another way. Do you think it is normal for Let me put Let me make

it super personal. Okay. I have three kids. >> Okay. And so in my will, um, do you

think it it would be abnormal if I

gave all three of my kids some money?

>> No, that would be fair. All three of your children like the same amount.

>> It doesn't matter. I'm not even getting into the specifics. I just want to I'm trying to walk you into I'm really trying to coach you here.

>> So you think that's normal for me to do that? Yes.

>> Yes. >> Why? Why is that normal? Why would that be totally normal

>> for you to give your money to your children when you passed away? Now, would you give that to them before your

wife passed away?

>> Well, without getting into the details.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to get into the details of my situation. I'm But I'm making a point here that is I don't think that this is abnormal and you don't either.

>> I think it's very emotional for you and I'm not judging you in any way, shape, or form. I certainly see how you are where you are because you shared it with me and I see how you got there >> u because of the the the challenges of your son and and what his situation would be. I get it. But as I'm s and I'm going to bring George in and George may have a completely different opinion.

where he's coming from and um I don't

have some fundamental problem with it, philosophical problem and I don't have a financial problem with it. George. Yeah.

The the piece I'm curious about, are you going to be okay if something were to happen to him?

>> Would I be okay if something happened to him financially? Like, would I >> if your husband dies today? Are you okay? >> If you get 80% instead of 100%, are you still living a comfortable life?

>> Um, I mean, he hasn't been in the workforce that long. I I probably have more investments than he does. Um,

>> so I'm trying to get at is this actually a financial there? There there's really no if I get 80% I'm not going to be doing okay versus 100. So it's really just the idea that he's valuing and prioritizing his daughter over giving you the entire share. And maybe you feel like it's unfair to the son.

>> Yes. >> So the next question is, is the son set up to succeed?

>> If something were to happen, is the special needs trust funded? And is it, you know, have you guys done a good job to make sure that he would be okay?

>> Well, so far we have. He's seven and my husband and I are both 50. I had him a lot later in life. And I think that I

mean I could see that. I I think that it

was just an emotional feeling. I kind of felt that he wasn't thinking about us

and he was more concerned about his a

grown child that self-sufficient. I think that's what it was. >> It absolutely is. But here's the thing.

As a as an objective bystander that you called and asked this question to, I don't think he's demonstrating that even financially. The lion share, the big chunk is going to you >> and for your son. He's giving her a percentage of his overall.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, I think I would try to put myself in his shoes and just talk to him honestly and say, "Hey, this here's how this hit me initially. I want to hear you out and hear your heart behind this. I want to come to an agreement and make peace with whatever we decide on as a couple. And I want to see the numbers to know that our son's going to be taken care of. I'm going to be taken care of and your daughter will get her share as well.

>> Okay. >> I think focusing on on the the facts, the logic, and the heart behind it, the motive behind it will help you step away from just the emotion of well, I'm his wife. I should be getting whatever he leaves. >> Yeah. >> And and a little dose of perspective, Lord willing, you guys live 20, 30, 40 years. You guys are early 50s. you got some work to do anyway on this to to to really uh bump these numbers up. So, it

is all emotional. I love that you're being honest. You're very self-aware on this and we're not judging you at all.

Totally get where you're coming from, but I see where your husband's coming from and I think this is a marriage issue and I think this is going to cause a lot of resentment if you don't get to a place of acceptance over this and go, "Oh, okay. We can come together and take care of our son. we can come together, make sure we're debt free, and walk the Ramsay baby steps out and retire with a tremendous amount of peace and and and margin and and and not even worry about this.

>> My husband 100%.

>> There we go. So now it feels unfair.

That's where this is stemming from. Is there a way where you could say, "Hey, he's 80% and I'm going to do 20% to the special needs trust." I could I could do that and I think he would have been I think he would be fine with it, you know, but I also know that if I give him 100% I definitely trust him where he would never he would do everything he could to make sure our son is safe and everything. >> And there's Okay, there's the statement.

There it is. What you just said is what

you have to remember when this emotion comes up. I trust him and I know that he

would do everything he can to take care of us. And this is the same man who also wants to do something for a daughter that he failed.

I admire this. I admire this move. It's not traditional. I get it. But this isn't a traditional life you guys have.

This is a unique story. And um I I hope

you can mend this resentment and go, "Hey, this is what I felt." because I'm sure he felt some of this coming at him and I think you got to support him in this move.

>> Yeah. Well, thank you.

>> You're a good lady. You're a good lady.

You know, you're not Listen, this is a I appreciate you being really honest, George. These >> Yeah. This is not an out-of- bounds thing like you you're what you're feeling is normal. >> Yeah. >> U but I just want to go further than that instead of just leave it at face value of well, he should give you 100%.

You're the wife. Again, this is a complex situation and it requires a more unique solution.

>> Yeah. Thank you, Kaylin, for sharing with us. You're you're a good lady and uh uh you guys have a lot of time to do

what's necessary to take care of your son. Focus on that. That's a unified goal and a worthy goal.

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right, George, we're going to do something new. Uh, this is going to be fun. How How about a video call? Would you like to help somebody out? >> This is something we have never done on the Ramsey Show. >> No, we're doing it right now. We're going to go to Sarah in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Sarah.

>> Hi, guys. I hope you're doing okay today. >> We're doing okay. >> It's so nice to see you. >> It is so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. So, uh, how can we help today?

>> Well, um, after about seven years of

hard work at paying off my debt, I've found myself in a bit of a better financial situation and

I've been working for seven years at 70

to 100 hours a week.

>> What? And I

>> doing what kind of work? >> When? >> Tell us what kind of work this is.

>> Um, a little bit of everything.

Uh, I've been a bartender, a legal secretary. Um, I currently work uh

bartending as a legal secretary and in logistics. >> What's your full-time job?

>> Uh, I work in logistics.

>> Okay. That's 40 hours a week.

>> Company. Yeah. Yep. And that's a normal like sometimes I'm working overtime.

Yeah. >> Okay. And then at night you're go just you're going to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. For seven years you've done this.

>> Yes. >> Are you done with the debt?

>> I am not. I just got my student loans refinanced. They were at a 14% interest

rate if you can believe it and I cut it down to six. >> Okay. Okay. Wow. Give us a quick snapshot of your current debt situation.

So, um I have $85,000 left.

I got my credit cards completely paid off uh last year and based on my current

income and um the rate at my refinance, I'm able to pay double, sometimes two and a half p

uh times my minimum.

>> Mhm. So, >> are you doing the debt snowball where you're just focused on one and making minimums on the rest?

>> Um, I only have the one loan because they got consolidated when I refinanced to get out of the 14%.

>> Oh, so you have an $85,000 loan that you're just tackling. >> And what are you putting towards that?

What is the amount you're putting towards that every month? So the minimum is 1065 and I am currently paying per

month somewhere around

uh 2500.

>> Okay. And um >> and I sometimes can go a little higher depending >> depending on the hours.

>> So because you just told us 70 to 100 hours and the emotion came out.

>> What's going on? What's that emotion coming from?

Um

it's just been a lot.

>> Yeah. >> For a long time. >> Yeah. >> And 3 years is basically what I have calculated left at. So

>> Okay. And that just feels absolutely overwhelming.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, what we want to do here is we want to go, okay, it's okay to take a take a a deep breath on this whole situation and go, okay, uh, I

can't keep this up right now. You you feel like you're at your breaking point.

That's what you feel like >> a lot of days. Yes. I mean, my boyfriend

is incredibly supportive, >> and he tries to do as much as he can to help out, >> but um he really doesn't know what more to do for me. >> No. Okay. So, let's see what we can do.

Well, you're not. Let's start there.

You're not stuck. You're exhausted.

>> Okay. You've done a great You've done a great job. All right. Let's look at the day job, the 40hour a week job. What is your income from that?

Um about 54 before any overtime.

>> Okay. 54,000 before overtime. And then

how many overtime hours are available to you?

>> It depends. Um currently I'm working

anywhere from 4 to 10 a week.

>> Okay. So 4 to 10 hours of overtime >> a week. Yeah. >> Okay. Great. So that puts us at most 50 hours. So 44 to 50 hours. And then you

are working these extra jobs on top of

that. Correct. >> Yes, that is correct. >> Okay. And uh if you were if I were to

say to you right now, hey, take a month

off of these other jobs and let's just let's just focus on the day job and the overtime that comes with the day jobs. So that's going to put us in a 44 to 50 hours a week. Okay.

um just knowing what you know um about

your finances, how much would that affect your ability to make that $2,000 payment a month?

>> What would that drop? Would it drop? And what would it drop to?

>> It would drop about $1,500.

>> Okay. So, it would be that substantial.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And that's what's saying if if you keep this up, you're on a three-year pace. George, I want to bring you in on that because I think there's another way out of this uh on the three years.

>> Yeah. I'm trying to get to the root of, you know, you've been at the seven years. On average, it takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt. So, what was the original balance you were facing of all the debts? So um part of

what this is, uh I went and got a master's degree and um

my field that I work predominantly in is

known for not paying very well.

>> Um but I try to write in my free time.

Uh I have a degree in history. Um

>> so what was your masters in?

>> Military history actually.

>> Oh boy. Were you trying to get a job in that field or was this just a for fun?

>> Yes, actually I would my my eventual goal is to teach and I have the lead on

potentially getting into um a PhD program in the next couple of years. >> Well, forget it. >> Uh which is paid. >> Let's put that on ice. I know. But right now, so so let's go.

>> I know. And that's kind of where I'm at.

>> Let's go to the logistics.

>> Was this all the So what kind of debt was this and what was the original balances? cuz it sounds like you added to it over the seven years. In my mind, you were just crushing down the debt, but instead you were adding to it while trying to keep up.

>> I actually paid as I was in my master's

program um in in order to keep doing that and still held my minimums for my undergraduates.

Uh >> so this $500,000 entirely certain. No, I

so I was a little bit stupid and I didn't know what I was doing when I went into my undergraduate program.

>> That's mostly >> my dad took care of all of the loans and

he put them on variable interest rates and so I have no idea exactly what the starting amount was.

>> Are they in his name or yours?

>> Um, he's my co-signer.

>> Oh, this just got more interesting.

>> So, the debt is also his. Okay. All right. Yes. I think we got to talk about you. First of all, you can't keep this up. You I I don't think you're in a Now, you might be able to come back to 70, but a 100 hours like at some point you're going to have to be really really smart about you and your

mind and your body trying to keep this up. All right. So, >> yeah. >> What is two or three ladders up uh two

or three rungs up the ladder look like from your logistics career where you are now? What does it look like? Is it attainable? And does it pay substantially more?

>> Yes. >> That's the focus. If we can double your income and get you working 4050 hours, we solve the problem. >> That's what we're trying to do here.

>> You're working. >> That's one of the things I've been working towards for the last year is to

earn the promotion that comes. And I think I'm actually close to >> You're close. And can I tell you something else? You keeping up the schedule you've been keeping up while I admire it and it is gazelle intensity.

you're the poster child. So proud of you. But that's affecting your ability at the day job.

You're going to become more promotable when you are more refreshed mentally,

physically. So you're not stuck. Um

you're not putting the best effort. Your effort's amazing, but the effort's not going to the best place. I want to see you get promoted. I want to see you use that logistics resume in the building that you're in right now. Okay? or uh

outside of that building because the logistics experience and skill set, George, is where she has the greatest opportunity for growth. Now, we can work 50 hours a week, maybe the occasional 60, but we got more income.

>> Yeah, I would try taking a few months off. I think, you know what? Let me see what this does for my career. Let me see what this does for my emotional and mental health and physically, and then we'll reset in January and see, do we need to put the foot on the gas again? >> Yeah, Sarah, we're rooting for you.

You're a warrior. Keep going.

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Amber in Georgia.

Amber, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys. Um, so I guess my primary

question is how do you stay motivated?

Um, or how do I stay motivated when I feel deprived and restricted by a budget?

>> Who made the budget?

>> I got a feeling it was somebody else.

Was it you? You made the budget.

>> No, I made the budget. There there's more to the feeling restricted.

>> Yeah. What area do you feel restricted?

>> What's making you feel restricted?

>> Sorry, I thought I was going to be able to keep it together. >> Listen, people cry on this show all the time. You're okay. We're We're good.

>> I have had a very difficult life. It's been really really tough. Um, and I'm just now starting to get help. And, um,

part of the things that have been tough have been financial. Um,

I have spent money just because I was

filling a void. Um, and I didn't know or

realize that until recently.

>> So, I've gotten myself into a lot of financial trouble. Um, I was married to

a man who got us in a lot of financial trouble. We almost lost our house. we wound up filing bankruptcy.

>> Um, I had to file bankruptcy a second time in order to avoid a legal situation.

Um, and I I just feel like it doesn't matter what I do, I I can't stick to anything.

I >> So, you're beating yourself up big time.

>> This isn't about the budget, Amber. You You feel hopeless because life has knocked you down. Yeah.

>> And you need to heal from all the things

that have happened to you and that's okay. So, where are you at today?

Are you single again working?

Um, I work I work uh about 52 hours a

week. Um, uh, I've got two jobs that I

work those hours between and then I work 12 hours a month at a third job. Um, I do have a boyfriend, um, but he lives an hour and a half away. What are you make?

What are you making with all three jobs?

>> Around 62,000.

>> Okay. Do you have kids?

>> Um an an older kid.

>> Okay. So, you're only responsible for you right now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Let me just throw something in real quick. Okay.

I'm proud of you and I think you should be proud of yourself. I hear a lady who has had a rough go and I think you blame yourself for a lot of it. Not all of it, but I think you're dealing with a lot of shame. And I just want to say to you that the fact that you're working three jobs and making $60,000 a year and trying to rebuild. I'm just want to say you are a strong person. So, just wanted

to the rest of the phone call. I want you to know that and believe that because that's what I see. And George, you see it as well. >> Yeah. >> You're resilient.

>> Okay. So, let's keep walking through. George, walk her through the financial stuff. >> You make 62K. How much debt do you have right now?

Uh about 88,000.

>> Okay. Make break that down for us.

>> Okay. Uh 3,000 is just random um

miscellaneous debt. I've got 2,000 in credit card. Uh7,000 on one vehicle, 21

on another. Um 25,000 in student loans,

and 30,000 to my parents for my divorce.

>> Okay. And this is all post your last bankruptcy.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, the the cycle has just been continuing every single time.

>> Is that correct? >> Uh yeah. >> Okay. Yes. >> And what you you said you're you're trying to seek help. What kind of area you share as much as you're comfortable with, but what is the root of this?

If you had to say, "Hey, when this happens, this is sort of a trigger for me that causes me to spiral and go want to spend a bunch of money that I don't have and go into debt." >> What causes the loop?

>> Aside from mental health, I don't know.

>> When you say mental health, what are you comfortable telling us? What diagnose yourself here? What's What is this thing is what George is getting at?

I was recently diagnosed with um PTSD

and bipolar disorder.

>> Okay. >> And are you are you currently with a medical professional working on treatment and and medicine to get a hold

of this?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And in the meantime, your original question was I feel restricted by living on a budget. So when you made this budget, what is the area or line item where you go, h this is so restrictive?

What can't you do that you want to do?

>> Well, I mean, part of it is your bills, right? You have your rent, you have your utilities, you have insurance, you got to put food on the table and get some groceries. So, what is restrictive about it?

>> So, I feel restricted in the sense that um I'm so accustomed to having two incomes. Um, I went from

$175,000 combined to, you know, 50,000 at the time. And I at

the time, you know, I could buy whatever I wanted and it didn't matter. We were in a decent financial position. And I'm still in that mindset that I just can't

get out of. Paying my bills is not the problem. Bills are paid. It's I can't put money away because whatever money I have left over, I want to buy nothing.

Anything. >> Well, okay. So, let's let's re let's reclassify the word you're using because words matter. But before we do that, quick context. Yes, you had two incomes,

but you told us that your ex-husband put

you in a massive financial hole on his own. So, it wasn't that great. It's just

you guys were living like it was great.

True or false?

both true and false. The financial predicament happened years later and then we got on good terms, >> right? But my point is is it was great for a while and then it wasn't great and we're still living a long time ago. And so I don't think you're restricted. I think that you're dealing with a form of

depression and and I don't not I'm not a I'm not clinically diagnosed. I'm saying this is like financial depression because it's like I had this life. This is what it was like and now I'm just just chipping

away and I'm not even having any fun.

There's no fun at all. And welcome to the journey. There are people sitting in this lobby today that have felt that. If you felt that before, raise your hand out there. Yeah. I mean, millions of people that have turned their life around at some point in the baby steps, baby step one and two, George, are

grueling. Yeah. Do you have $1,000 right

now, Amber?

>> No. >> Has that been hard for you to come up with?

>> I had it and then I had it and then um

something happened that legally shouldn't. I had a lean placed on something and I had to get the lean off

in order to replace what I needed to replace. Well, that lean should never have been placed because that particular balance was included in the bankruptcy.

But because I legally needed to drive, I had to pay the lean. So, there went my entire savings. >> Okay. But $4,000, let's say, will pass through your hands in the next 30 days.

Correct?

>> Yes. >> Before you pay the bills, can you set aside a,000 over in a savings account outside of your checking account and still pay your bills?

Yes. >> Okay. So, there's baby step one. Part part of the the hard part of this is you just have to do it. And there's always going to be something that comes up and you just have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better financial spot the priority before anything else.

And it's there's going to be more setbacks where that came from because here's the reality. You're right.

Looking at the budget, it is restrictive because you're broke. You make 62K and you have 88K to pay off. That's hard math that you're facing. And so my hope for you is that we can go, how do we clear this debt fast? Like these cars, do we need both of these cars? Can we sell one or both of them and clear those payments and then buy something used in cash?

>> Uh, no, because they're they're both underwater. >> By how much on each?

um on one of them probably

4,000 and on the other maybe six or

seven. >> Okay, so now we have a solvable problem.

If we come up with 10 or 11k, we can clear these payments and breathe a little bit more and then we clear the next smallest debt and breathe a little bit more. So you're going to have to get creative. I hope you can get your health uh in a manageable spot and just know this looks different now. Your life changed dramatically.

The reality changed. Hang on the line. I want to get you into every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app.

It's going to walk you through this whole journey. Hang on the line.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside

the incomparable, the charming George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. You like what I did there?

>> I was actually shocked. I thought there was someone else you were going to announce. >> I think you are charming. I really do. I don't think you get enough credit for your charm, George. >> Thank you. >> People just love your brain. They do.

They love it when you crunch the numbers here on the >> I do like to crunch a good number. >> All right, Cindy's ready. Uh Cindy's joining us now in Ohio. Cindy, how can we help?

>> Well, good afternoon. First of all, my son wants me to say hi on his behalf.

So, >> what's his name? What's his name?

>> Um I would prefer not to sit at the moment. >> Yeah, we get it. All right. >> We were trying to give him a shout out. >> We were going to do a shout, but never mind. He'll know. >> Is he listening or watching? What What does it do? >> He will He is aware that I'm on the phone with you. He will see this later >> somewhere else. He will. He will later.

>> Okay, let's do it. Hey, buddy.

>> Hey, Braxton. I'm just gonna guess on name. I don't know. >> You can't make up a fake name.

>> I can do what I want. >> Now he's going to be confused. Cindy, I apologize for my co-host.

>> Well, tell your son we said hello. We'd love to meet him sometime.

>> All right, I will tell him >> what's up. >> Okay, so my question has to do with my

next step in the baby step. So, I am

single. I have a six-month fully funded

emergency fund. So, I'm excited to start on my 15% um uh investing. Awesome.

However, yeah. So, however, um I'm not

sure if I should because my company that I work for was recently purchased. Um and so there's some job uncertainty. Um

so, I know, you know, that's maybe a reason to save up cash. However, I was

notified um that if I stay with the

company for at least another year that they will give me a retention bonus. Um >> Okay, hold on. >> All right, let's pause. Let's pause real quick because this is interesting.

>> You're feeling because of the acquisition that your job may be in

trouble and yet they just gave you

a notification that if you stay for another year, you get a benefit.

Yes. >> So, that's a good sign to me. Yes. What

am I missing? >> It is. Um, they did say that if they

they haven't decided exactly which path they're going to go. They're kind of still in the figuring things out stage.

So, they did say that um they could end my employment at any point in time.

>> Oh, I missed that part. I must have interrupted you before that. Okay, I get you. All right. I'm sorry. bonus. That bonus would be payable to me regardless.

Um, if it's it's if it's a year from now or if they determine that my position will be eliminated, I still get that bonus. >> Okay. Any hint any hint or ideas or

hunches on when they're going to make this decision?

>> Um, that I don't know. But I also do

know for a fact that if my position is

eliminated, I will get that retention bonus along with a severance, which is

um how much? >> In excess of 10 months of my current salary. >> Give us that number.

>> Um it would be over $100,000.

>> Okay. I'm thinking that Cindy would be okay with that $100,000. You you that'd give you a little bit of padding to find another job. Is that true?

>> Yes. Okay. So, I'm taking a deep breath if I'm you. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. >> No, I I think that I'm okay to go ahead and start investing since I know that I've got six months in the bank already plus some. >> How much is in the bank? What's the number? >> Um I've got about 35,000 in the bank and my emergency fund would be about 19,000.

>> Okay. You're more than okay. I would not pile up another dime. I would just go ahead and ratchet that investing up to 15%. And you have a good retirement account through your employer.

>> I do. I have about 300 and something in there. >> Way to go, Cindy. Come on. Let's go.

Single mom.

>> Yes. Yes. >> And how old? That's amazing. How old are you? Oh, wait. You were not supposed to ask. >> I am 47.

>> Okay. Wonderful. >> Very young, by the way. So, I'm just thinking I'm just thinking how much this investment account will grow on top of you contributing to it. I have no doubt that you will be a baby steps millionaire if you just keep following this path. >> That is correct. What just for fun, George, what's the I love when you do this. Give Cindy a another reason to be

>> every year.

>> Uh my base is about 136.

>> Love it. Okay. He's running numbers, Cindy, on what that 300 is going to look like if you don't do this. Is going to be exciting. Are you ready for this? >> Here we go. >> Oh, boy. I saw >> 47 47 to 67. You already have 300 grand.

You're going to add 1,700 a month if you do 15%. You're going to be at about 3.5

million.

>> Hot dog.

>> So, I wouldn't be worried. Now, I hope you never lose your job and know that if you ever did, you're in the best situation possible knowing that you have an emergency fund. You have no debt and you have a severance package here. >> Yeah.

>> So, I would be sleeping well at night, just crushing it at your job. And if they let go of you, you're going to be so valuable, someone else will scoop you up, and you'll probably make more. >> That's right. >> Awesome.

Thank you. >> Hey, I didn't I know you didn't call about this particular piece, but I want to I want to give you this. Um, I wrote a book years ago called the proximity principle, and in the the entire book could be summed up in one sentence. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity.

And so anytime somebody calls or I run into somebody who's got a situation like this and they're like, I'm unsure about my employment. Beyond all the money stuff that we just covered, the next thing I'm going to tell them is start connecting like crazy.

connecting in your industry. uh or you're just and you're not going out and telling everybody the sky is falling or that my job but you can say hey I just just part of an acquisition and uh and so not sure where that's going to go could turn out great but really not sure right now and so I'm I'm out making connections coffees lunches um you know I am letting everybody know that uh I

might very well be a free agent and you would be surprised how much peace that's going to give you number one but number Two, you might be surprised that even though you might not be looking for anything, something might come to you. And the idea here is I want to get around the right people. These are people that are in my industry. U and reconnect.

And that means tell everybody because you got a real good reason to to uh share that right now because anybody in your situation would feel the same way. You're not laid off. This thing might turn out to be great, but I really really recommend that you do that. And so keep going.

But also, I'm always creating. It's like, you know, I'm going to fly it. I'm flying to Virginia later today and at some point before we take off tonight, they'll show us the emergency exits. I want people doing this same thing professionally.

All right. If I were to be laid off or if you know what what would be my emergency exits. Really important. And a lot of people don't do that and I think you can do that all the time.

yourself in a in a good space. Last thing I want to say, Cindy, and I know George is going to want to say something, too. I'm putting you on the spot, pal. Uh, I want your son to hear from us that his mom has done a

phenomenal job taking care of him. And buddy, listen to the details today and sit down and talk to mom about what she's done and you learn from her, but also I want you to thank her. Give her a big hug because she has really done a phenomenal job taking care of you, pal.

>> No notes. That was perfect.

>> So, thank you. I was just hoping you would have an analogy for the seat as a flotation device. You know, in the career field, what is that? The severance is >> Well, no. I'll tell you what it is. Uh your connections are the flotation device. >> And what about the mask? What are we doing with the mask? >> The mask is the money stuff. So, if I've got the emergency fund, I mean, I know that I'm not in desperation. I'm not going to die. We take the mask. That's the money.

>> Stability. That's the mask. And then the flotation devices. I got connections. I got jobs. People want me. They love me.

Keep going.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, let's go to Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky. Joseph, how can we help?

Hey guys, appreciate you taking my call.

>> Sure. >> I have a plumbing business. It's a oneman show, so it's only me.

One question is, should I have a separate emergency fund for that business? My other question is, I have

some debt like a van and I also have

some plumbing equipment debt.

I can write that off 100%. But should I

just pay it off instead?

>> Yes.

In in short, uh number one, you should have a separate checking account and savings for the business >> as some reserves there.

>> So, you have that separated.

>> It is separated, but I didn't know if I actually needed a sixmonth emergency fund. No, a business wouldn't operate like your personal household would, but your reserves will will sort of act like that. And as you've done the business over a long period of time, you'll kind of know what kind of emergencies you might be facing in a business situation.

And part of that is reducing your risk will leave you not needing to touch that. And so part of reducing risk is getting rid of that debt because the debt isn't, you know, Joe's Joseph's plumbing business. The you signed the dotted line on that. So it's your personal debt. Correct.

>> So, I would pay it off. I don't I'm not a fan of this like, well, I can write it off. It's not a dollar for-doll deduction here, >> right? And so, >> it's not a big deal.

>> I have So, I have a I could pay it off.

I have 127,000 in my personal account.

>> Awesome. And what's the debt?

>> 125 in my business account. I have a

$20,000 emergency fund separate from that in my savings account.

Everything is paid off except for my house. I owe 32,000 and I my payment is

21161 a month.

>> What's the What's left on the van?

>> 40,000 on the van and 25,000 on equipment. >> So I could pay it off without a problem.

>> So why what is keeping you from doing that?

>> It's almost like rent to own. So, I was

thinking it may be safer to keep that money on hand, but also I have no problem with I'm not

in love with the money. I have no problem with letting it go and paying the debt off.

>> Yeah. It's not rent to own. That analogy is kind of weird for me, but you know, look, this is a van that is depreciating every day and the debt is not doing anything. And you're What's your interest payment on that?

>> 6.39. So, what's the monthly payment on that van?

>> 669. >> Yeah. None of this makes any sense for somebody who's got >> You said there's 211 plus 669.

>> No, the 211 is >> his home payment is >> Oh, $211 a month.

>> So, how much will you free up by paying off these debts?

>> 1400 >> a month.

>> Yes. And you have the money, you have the cash to pay off >> the plumbing equipment plus your house,

>> right? >> Dude, if you just like wrote a check today and were done with all of this and invested all those payments, you'd be so wealthy, you would laugh at the tax write off money you'd be making.

>> Now I am 50 and I have zero retirement.

>> Free you up to put $1,400 away into retirement accounts. Now, why? What stopped you from investing?

>> I just started this business a few a couple of years ago. So, my cash flow hasn't always been what it is today.

>> So, you're full-time plumbing? >> Not paid off the house.

>> Yeah. Full-time. Good for you.

>> I have not paid off the house because at

211 a month, I would rather have the $32,000. I could collect cans and pay 211 a month. That has been my logic on

that. No, we've heard that. We've heard that a million times. Uh, how much is the van worth?

>> It's brand new. I just bought it in February.

>> You didn't Well, how much is it worth? I know what you owe on it. What What could you sell it for?

>> I honestly have no idea. I paid 54,000

for it, so I've already paid it down 14,000 in the last since February.

>> All right. I mean, a van is a It's got all your plumbing tools in it. Correct.

>> Correct. Nobody's riding in it.

>> Just you.

>> Just me. >> So, you could get a cheap van, get it wrapped nice, and probably save 20 grand right there. You sold it and got a cheaper one. >> That's where I'm going.

>> Well, uhoh. >> The thing the equipment I have will absolutely not fit in a minivan.

>> I never said minivan. >> Nobody said a minivan. >> I was just saying you didn't need to buy a brand new minivan. I'm >> No, no, no.

I actually would really respect a guy who rolls up to be my plumber in a minivan. >> I know I'm not getting ripped off if a guy shows up in a minivan. was getting ready to say that for some reason I trust a plumber in a minivan. >> I see a plumber in a fancy new van.

I go, he's going to price gouge me cuz he's got payments on that thing. >> I agree with the big fancy wrap.

>> Well, let me let me play this game with you. If you freed up the mortgage plus your debt payments, is that now like 1,600 a month?

>> Correct. Yes. >> And could you invest more on top of that?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. So, how much could you invest every month on top of the 1,600 to get

set for retirement?

>> On top of the 1,600, I could do another 2,000. It's >> 3,600 a month, you could just start shoveling into investments.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, from age 50 to 67, you shovel 3,600 away, you could end up with almost $2 million.

>> Correct. Yep. I've done the math on that. Well, math is one thing. Doing it is a whole another thing, isn't it? >> Well, I just now sort of got turned on to Dave Ramsey, so I'm kind of >> good. Learning.

>> Yeah, he's wanted to make sure this was the right step before I paid.

>> Yeah. We recommend any business, any entrepreneur, do it with cash and move at the speed of cash. Do it slow. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't say you're investing in the business by taking on payments or new fancy equipment. Just cash flow it. And it's going to reduce your risk, increase your peace, increase your chance of surviving. if something were to happen in the business and uh I hope the business continues to thrive.

Sounds like you're doing great. >> Yeah, me too. I appreciate that. Yeah.

>> Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> Yeah, Joseph, listen, you're doing great. I would love for America to hear this. Uh how long ago did you become a

plumber and what was the uh qualification process like? What was the length of that and the cost to become a plumber? Well, so I started my business. I just got started in this four years ago.

>> Okay. How long was the qualification process? >> But someone wants to become a plumber.

They have to be an apprentice for a couple of years. Then they have to be a journeyman for a couple of years. So you're looking at, you know, four years, >> right? Okay. And you did that.

>> You only have to be you only need a masters if you're doing if you're pulling permits. You don't have to have a mast's, >> right? How much did it cost for you to become qualified? >> It doesn't It doesn't cost anything. I mean, it cost the price of a test.

>> I'm just asking you a straightforward question. I can't get the answer. >> Couple hundred. >> There we go. Couple hundred bucks for you to get that train. >> And now you're making what?

>> As a soloreneur.

>> Will this year be 250 before taxes?

>> Ding, ding, ding. >> This is what I wanted people to hear.

All right. The trades are exploding.

This is a guy who's crushing it. Way to go, Joseph. Uh, thanks for sharing that.

For every five plumbers that are getting out of the business, there are only two to replace them. >> Exactly. >> Which means we desperately need people like Joseph to get involved.

>> There's a massive opportunity right now in the trades and this is real life examples. >> So four years, which is what undergrad would would take you, a few hundred bucks, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than undergrad, and you could be making a quarter of a million dollars running your own business, owning your time.

>> You didn't notice any student loans in there, did you? >> Nothing. >> Nothing in there. telling you folks, this is amazing. Little PSA to America's

parents that listen to the show and grandparents who have influence over young people.

The world is changing and this idea that a college degree is the only way to succeed is crumbling and it's crumbling

faster. Gallup put out new data, George, first of this year. 46% of American parents, listen to this folks, 46% of American parents would prefer their kids go into trades instead of a college path. And that is because they see the handwriting on the wall.

And I'm telling you, we got to stop looking down our nose at the trades. Because you're going to look up 5 years from now, 10 years from now, there's going to be a lot of millionaires in this country who did exactly what Joseph did.

All right. This is good, honorable work, and it creates jobs. Remember, small business is what fuels the American economy. There you go. Thank you very much, America.

[Music]

[Music]

All right. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. You've tried budgeting. You've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down. Yi might be able to help. Learn

more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

It's not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Tucker in Washington. The company I've been with for just a few months is experiencing financial struggles. Upper Management has mentioned in a couple of companywide meetings that there are only 10 months of cash left and we have had negative cash flow month after month. I left my previous job because my manager was extremely toxic and the company culture wasn't good.

Will two employment stints of less than a year be a red flag on my resume. I just got married 6 months ago and we want to start a family soon, so my job will be our sole source of income. Would it be wise to begin looking for another job or should I wait and see what happens with the company in a year? >> Yes.

I think you should start looking yesterday. >> Here's the narrative because I understand the question, George. Uh, two jobs on the resume. You got to tell the truth.

You don't bash them.

got this other job. This is the story I was told. Story changed. Here's where we're at." So, I've just I've had some really bad luck, you know. Uh and that's

different than you flaking. It's not you job hopping. >> Yeah. So just control the narrative and uh absolutely be looking and uh don't

have any shame over this. Um you know, you just got to take control of the situation. Now I will tell you this, the job market is a lot tougher right now.

Uh it's what we call a soft job market where companies are sitting tight kind of waiting to see what's going to happen with all the tariffs. That's one of the big things. A lot of uncertainty right now as to what's going on there and um

the economy is uh you know with interest rates, what the Fed going to do. So when we get into a lot of uncertainty

uh in the macro economy, companies tend

to just slow down when it comes to hiring and we're seeing that. This is a soft market. Unemployment is up into the low fours. So yeah, I would not, you

know, ride this out and ride the wave.

Not smart. and then just wait till the buzzer beater when they lay you off to go, "Oh, guess I should look for a job." Yeah. Especially in this case because he's the sole income. >> And the writing is very much on the wall here. They're telling you straight up.

>> And you know what else? I want to make sure I cover this. If your wife has the

ability, I don't know what the family situation is, but if she has the ability to work, I would absolutely for a season if you can do it and it makes financial sense to do it, I would do it in this time as well. stacking up a little bit of extra cash that might be able to help us if this thing goes and falls before you can uh you know get another job. So this is when we we act like a storm is coming. What do we do when we know a storm is coming and and let's act accordingly.

Ethan is up in Athens, Georgia. Ethan, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Really appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Um so I was driving a 2005 Toyota Camry

uh and I got totaled. I have a year left in law school and I'm trying to set a budget on buying a new well not a new car but a used car. >> Did you get any money for the Camry?

>> Yeah, so I got 6,000 for the Camry. I

have about 10K in liquid cash and then another uh 40,000 right now in stocks.

>> Non-retirement. You've just been investing on the side in single stocks.

>> Yeah. Well, not single. I've been trying to buy like the bonds and uh mutual funds and stuff like that, but yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. Do you have any debt?

>> No. No debt whatsoever. >> Wow. You're going through law school debtree?

>> Yes, sir. >> How'd you do that? >> Wow.

>> Did you get a full ride or what?

>> Yeah, I did. >> Wow. Okay. Stud. Stud. All right. So, you're asking us um how much car should you get?

>> Pretty much. Yeah.

>> Well, I mean, you're going to want something that'll get you through law school and beyond. And so, you can spend more than 6K. You're in a good spot financially. Are you working at all? Do you have any income right now?

>> Right now, I have no income, but I already have a job set for uh next October once I pass the bar.

>> Fantastic. And it will it be in the current area or are you moving somewhere?

>> A bit more uh towards Atlanta.

>> Yeah.

Well, uh George, I don't know if you got a formula for this because he doesn't have an income and he has no debt and he's going to be making really good money. What kind of money you going to be making first year?

I'll be making 190 my first year,

>> bro. Ethan debt free making that kind of money with a full ride. >> Are you single?

>> Uh, yeah. Not right now.

>> Not for long. With those numbers, >> hey, the ladies will be coming around for that one. I would just be reasonable for any young person, especially dudes.

They tend to over buy in car cuz they want to flex. I hope that's not you. You don't seem like the type. So, I would just buy something reasonable. What have you been looking at? I know you've been car shopping a little bit.

>> Yeah, I've been just looking at new Camry. Something like late teens with less than 100,000 miles. That's something newer, but I'm not spending everything that I have. >> How much are those cars?

>> Uh, between 15 and 20,000.

>> I was going to throw the number of 20 out and let George react to me just based on your situation. >> 20 felt like my upper limit for just a young dude. >> I'm taking the flag here. >> Top line 20 is what I was going to say.

>> Okay. And if you need to sell some stocks to do it, I would. I wouldn't be in any single stocks. I don't know why you're even in bonds at this age. You're not 70. You shouldn't be worried about long-term market returns if you want.

>> I think he's an old soul. I'm going to guess he's an old soul.

>> Is that true?

>> Uh, yeah. Something I inherited from my grandpa. >> Okay, there we go. >> Yeah, I I could hear it on you. You you are very mature.

>> I would go car shopping. I would stick to independent used car dealerships uh and Facebook Marketplace. Get a pre-purchase inspection on whatever you get. And I would also search the exact year, make, model. Do your research and know exactly what recalls have been made on that exact model. What are the classic repairs that tend to happen on that car? And that will give you a lot of confidence as you step into it.

>> All right. Awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate you, man. And listen, buyer beware.

tight lipped when you go to the uh car dealer. Don't tell them you're paying cash right up front. Don't tell them that. Don't tell them you're in law school.

Don't tell them you got $190,000 job waiting on you. They will be on you like vultures on roadkill. I mean all over you. So just keep it tight like you're playing some poker.

Focus on the out. Say, "Hey, I'd like to just talk about the out the door price." That's it. That's what I want to focus on. I don't want to talk about payments.

That's right. >> Here's my budget. And if you walk in with a check for that amount, >> oh boy, >> they're and you walk, you have some walk away power. >> Oh boy, >> I love that game.

>> These guys will start singing. They really will. They'll line up like a choir for you.

They'll be the manager, the assistant manager. You ever seen these guys? It's hilarious. There's always like seven people in the back, >> you know? >> They always have to go They have to go into the back to talk to some mysterious >> figure. I always love that.

>> My manager is going to take me to the cleaners if I give you this deal, man. But I'll do it for I'll do it for you. >> Hold on one second. Don't tell anyone.

Give me a few minutes. I got to go back. And it's like it's like he's the Wizard of Oz. >> Do they all go to the same heeie-jeeby schley school?

>> Take a little vape break. And then come back and say, "All right, >> I think it is a vape. >> I could get in a lot of trouble for this one." Yeah, >> but we can make it work. >> This is the best I can do. I love that

one. I uh >> I can't stand it. >> I can't either. kind of we'll just Can I walk back there with you? Because I think we could we could speed this negotiation up. If you walked me back to the Wizard of Oz, >> I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure he's going to be fine if I go back there with you. But it's the whole you all stay out of here. Can I get Can I get you something to drink? Can I get you a bottle of water? No, you can get me a good deal.

That's all I'm here for. >> I don't care about the bottle water. In fact, my wife and I brought a cooler. We have our own bottle of water.

>> My wife can't go into those places. She has to sit in the car cuz she's too uncomfortable. Isn't it? >> Yeah. I like the conflict. I like the negotiation. >> You do. You know what you do? You get right to the fees. >> Yeah. >> You go from the window price to what are the fees on this? I know you.

>> Oh, I don't do if they have anything other than a small dock fee, I'm walking away. They start pitching me on, hey, we did the window tint and we get the t Nope. I'm out. Take that off of here.

I'm getting out of here. >> Yeah. >> Sales price plus tax, maybe a $100 dock fee or I leave. >> You might as well be on Shark Tank.

I'll bet you sit there and you cross your arms. Oh, the the guys at the dealership, they see me coming in, they go, "Not today. I don't want to deal with this guy." >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> My last car though, the finance office called me and said, "Hey, we noticed you were paying cash." And we just think that's a terrible idea. It's a much better It's smarter to find. >> You scream, "Do you know who I am?" >> I almost went, "Hey, just Google me. I can't deal with this right now.

You're a flex. That's a flex." >> Yeah. >> Hey, listen, Mr. Finance Manager.

I'm going to send you a link. I'd like to click on it. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You should read it.

Oh, look at that, folks. He snuck the book promo in just like that. I didn't even see it coming. It's a great book.

[Music]

Our

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scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 13:7. Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Our quote from John F.

Kennedy. Forgive your enemies, but never

forget their names.

All right. Two interesting things there.

Contrasting. >> I'll chew on that. >> Chew on that. Tyler is up in Maryland.

Tyler, how can we help?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm all right. >> How can we help? >> Um, well, I was calling in because uh I

mean I found myself in a uh situation with my wife and I um we recently moved

October of 2024 um from our first home

to this being our second. And um it was

pretty much at the top of our price range, pardon me. Um we want I've lived

in eight different homes growing up and we have a we have a 2-year-old son and just found out we have another one on the way. >> Um and it was really Yeah, he's a tornado. Um but it was really important to me that like um we both wanted him to have like a house that he grew up, you know, all of our kids just have a house they grew up in. So, we stretched. Um,

we knew that we would be a little house poor, but we figured if we can, you know, uh, tighten our tighten our belt

and, you know, um, spend wisely that

eventually our salaries will, you know, kind of, I guess, catch up to where our mortgage was. Um, and that was before,

you know, I really got into, uh, Dave Ramsey and and learn more about the finances. Um, so since then we've been,

you know, going on a year here and the mortgage is about $4,500 a month and our

net uh income per month is about 9,400.

So I think it's like a 47% which is, you

know, double what I know is recommended.

Um, so in addition to that, we have um

we only have one car payment, which my truck have three years left on it. About 15,000 left. Um, >> what's the payment?

>> Uh, payment's about 536 a month.

Um, my wife also has student loans, which is probably a total like 20,000.

Um, and it was through uh um the carrier

that she was using, I guess, had a class action lawsuit. Um, I guess somebody advised her not to pay us, so we stopped. And then that's now bringing our credit down. So, now we're trying to get current on that. Um and then we have

uh uh credit card debt which is probably total like around 20,000 between um

three different cards. Um so pretty much

what I'm thinking what I think is inevitable at this point um you know with having a family and with now

realizing how expensive kids are and you know un unknown expenses and and

activities for them and toys for them.

It's I'm kind of thinking getting out of this house might be the best thing for our family to to downsize to a smaller

house with a a much lower mortgage. I just want to get your take on that.

>> What could you sell the house for and what's left on the mortgage?

>> So, we bought it for about 600 and this

is about a year ago. Um, we're thinking

about refinancing which would then put another 15 onto it because of the fees.

Um, but I I think it I don't we won't

get 600. I don't think I think it's going to be an it would be a short sale.

>> Why would it be a short sale?

>> Well, I just don't it it was on the market for probably about 4 months. Um, it started out like 750 and it went all the way down to 600 before we we uh bought it. >> How much did you put down? Um when we didn't put anything out bought to uh the VA.

>> Man, this is heartbreaking.

>> Yeah, it's I I'm having buyer's remorse

and I think I'm I'm starting to realize

what's what's probably inevitable where my wife is like very in love with the house and, you know, it's perfect for our big family, which is what she wants.

But I just, you know, I come home and it's like I just feel like there's just no peace at all. Like I know.

>> Is she aware of this? Is she aware of how you're feeling? >> She's aware. Yeah, I we've talked about it. her her game plan, which is what we're doing now, I I'm I'm giving her the grace of just seeing how it works, was uh tightening our belt more um and

not spending as much and whatever um whatever surplus we have at the end of, you know, each week or each month, our checking account will just apply to toward bills. Um, but when I do our

budget, um, between our net income and all the bills or the credit cards, the loans, etc., we're like, 1300 in the whole.

>> So, you're going to continually go into debt at this rate.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> You can't even live off of $9,400 a month.

>> Yeah. >> So, there's no tightening. >> And I And is she working full-time?

>> Already? Yeah, we both work full-time.

So there's no, you know, there's no dream here where we go, well, we're making double now because she's working full-time. So if there's no room here to wiggle on income, you don't see your income shooting up in the next 6 months and you're going to continually go into debt, then I think we just have to cut our losses and get out of this house. I would try to still get as much as you can for it.

>> Yeah. >> But you don't have any equity, so it doesn't really it doesn't solve your problems. It's going to cost you money to get out of this house and you don't even have that money.

>> Yeah. >> What could you sell the truck for?

>> Um I on KBD it looks like it was valued at around 10,000. So I'm a little upside down on it, which is what I'm trying to put my uh you know, I drill monthly for the army. So I'm trying to put those checks toward this to to pay it down as quickly as possible, >> man. And this I'm trying to figure out

how you have $5,000 or 6,000 or 7,000 of

expenses on top of the mortgage.

>> Yeah, >> you guys are spending like you're in Congress. There's a lot of just entertainment, luxury eating out here. I think I think it's more than just covering the bills.

>> Uh yeah, I agree. My my wife, you know, well, when we when we got in the house, it was we we we were spending like kings and queens. It was our own fault, you know. We we had a really uh a tough conversation about it about a month ago and we're like, you know, we

we really tried you we went to like a cash budget where, you know, we'll take out X amount each week once we get paid and this is what we have to spend. There's no credit cards. Um we're not putting anything on debit card. Um so, but even that it's we're still we're still in the hole. Like it's just between kids stuff and now a new, you know, a new one on the way. It's I just don't see it uh working out in our favor by staying in this house.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're going to Could you go rent somewhere for two grand, three grand? >> Yeah. In our area there there's uh there's some places that our rent uh for about 25 or 3,000 like >> So that'll save you the >> two grand that you're, you know, losing.

So instead of going 15 grand into debt, maybe we could save five grand.

>> Here's a question I have, George. Tyler, I'm asking this on your behalf. you know, every dollar, which is obviously it's not just a budgeting app. I mean, it's FPU, it's the baby steps. I mean,

it's helping people. And when we talk about on the show, we're telling people, this is real, that in less than 15 minutes, people are finding thousands of dollars of margin. We know that from every dollar. That's what we're hearing.

My question is, if you're sitting in his kitchen right now, okay, how much do I

think you could find money in this current? And that's why I'm saying whenever I see, well, the mortgage is 4,500. They're bringing in 10 grand.

There's room here. There's some spending that we can ratchet. >> I think there is there's more cutting.

>> It's going to be a fight. It's going to be, well, I'm used to doing this and now you're taking this away from me. And so, I don't want this to be you versus her.

This needs to be you walking hand in hand, looking in the same direction going, we need to come to Jesus meeting cuz we're going to go 15 grand into the hole. The way we're spending, we already can't get out of this as is. We need to do something drastic and that means selling the house and renting and cutting our spending and working a second job >> for at least two years to clean this up.

>> I really want you guys in every dollar and that's going to be our gift to you.

So, Kelly's going to take care of it. You you and your wife got to commit to using it. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it it literally >> it will coach you up.

It is so unbelievable all the the new things they've added to it. So, um, you guys got to commit to getting in control of the spending and finding ways to make some more money after selling this house just to give you more margin. By the way, George, I want to mention, this is super exciting.

You're going to see some amazing success stories. You're a part of that. That's right. >> We want you to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops.

And I've said it a couple times today, just kind of naturally. George, 10 seconds or give us 5 seconds on the new Every Dollar. It's unreal. >> Well, it's going to digitally coach you like we would on the Ramsay Show and walk with you step by step through the baby steps on top of helping you do your budget.

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live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show we help

people build wealth do work that they

love and create actual amazing

relationships Ken Coleman number one

bestselling author of the book paycheck to purpose host of the Ken Coleman show

Ramsey personality is my co-host today

thank you for joining us America the phone number is

88255 225 Clayton is in Little Rock

Arkansas hey Clayton welcome to the Ramsey Show Hey sir how are you guys

better than we deserve brother what's up

awesome man well you know first of all I

just want to say it really is an honor to speak to you guys I'm a huge fan of the show I've watched countless YouTube

clips Etc and I think you guys are out there changing lives so I want to start off with that well thank you sir

how can we help you today absolutely well you know I uh I'll

kind of start from a broad overview and I'll kind of break it down if that's okay with you um just you know my my

broad overview question Dave um is

really just how not to get discouraged

in the wealth building process um I'll

give you some background information I'm

27 years old my wife is 30 um we have a

combined net worth of around probably

200,000 or so wow yeah it's right there

my number thank you and um I make about

58,000 60,000 on my primary job and I do

a side hustle um and but total I make

around 80 to 90 kind of depending on the

year and my wife makes around 72 um the

only thing that we owe on is our home we

both have MBA uh degrees we have no

Consumer Debt no car loans anything like

that um my home is currently worth

probably around 300,000 um and I owe about

195 um we we we have two

kids um and overall life is good um you

know we we're still in the process of trying to button everything up we're investing 10% right now I know I need to

get that number to 15 uh my home's on a

15-year note uh we're trying to get our kids college you know all that sit

situated so there's nothing really on

fire uh per se but in general

I really do believe what you guys teach and I believe you know we we we give 10%

of our income to the church I mean I'm a really big believer in living with in your means not saying we're perfect by any means you've done a great job Clayton I mean your numbers are amazing

for your age way to go you make $160,000

a year you have no debt except your house everything's on track you're killing it right right well man you know

I I I I I really do believe it and I I

appreciate it but at the same time um

like I I think long term right like I'm

yeah but have you done the math huh have you done the

math right right yeah yeah if you save

15% of $160,000 that's going to be a million

dollar in 10 years dude right right and that's with no

match have you got a match yes sir yes

sir do the math right right well you know man it

just did you do the math no yes sir I

did yes okay then did you see 10 years you're going to be a millionaire at 20 at 37 years old yes sir yes sir so how

is that discouraging you know I don't know man I

just like I look at life right and I

know comparisons the thief of joy and I

don't you know I try not to go there in my head but comparison to if anything

you compare to you should be ahead

of right right right well you know just

I it's okay if I give you some background some more background information is that okay understand it's

okay I'm trying to understand why you're discouraged there's no reason to be I'm

I'm really confused with that cuz dude

you're in the top 2% of America you're

killing it just I I just think like

longterm Dave I think

when I just see how everything is so

expensive and even when I pay off my

home and I have all my retirement accounts Etc I just you know like I'm

trying to really set my family up so

like in 10 years my daughter will be 13

right and I'm trying to almost get ahead of

the game where I can make sure we can go on big vacations you know take care of

her college and I realize okay I'll Be A

Millionaire but I just it feels like

everything's so expensive and it's such a long proc and I realize that you know

wealth isn't obtained easy I'm not trying to say that but it it is it is a

long process 10 10 years is a lot longer

than 10 minutes and most people most

people have the attention span of a gat

that's why they're not able to build wealth I I've been I've been listening Clayton and I I've been where you are I

I actually I I hear me 10 years ago on

this phone call so I I just want to say

this your issue is not comparison your

issue is fear and you're afraid you're

not going to be able to do the things that you would like to do because you're too stuck in the headlines and what you're not focusing on is as Dave has

pointed out you're crushing at number one you're really ahead of the game this is all got a compound for you and you're going to be fine you're going to take some great vacations but what you're not focused on is is what you can actually

do you're you're focused on all these outside circumstances the economy

inflation whatever else is going on in your head you do need to quit witching the news yeah you need to start focusing on your income and what what you're going to make next year and the year after that and how you're going to be able to make more money and that you can

go out and determine your financial

future you're already great but you're

you're forgetting and all this headline

stuff and all this fear and comparison

here's what you're forgetting your ability your wife's ability to put a

financial plan that includes increasing

income you're going to be able to pay for all those things yeah your income

not gonna be stagnant for the next 10 years

absolutely I don't know if that helps you Clayton you got to shake all that stuff off you're inside your head so deep Andor here the thing the secret to

happiness is low expectations and I'm a little bit afraid you thought when you made $160,000 you were going to be rich

that's a very good point and you're not

rich at $160,000 with two kids there's

no it's no cake you thought it was going to be on Easy Street like everything's going to like you're going to be flying in a private jet or something and you know it's 160 Grand you're not so you

got a lot more you got double the household income of the average American you're in the top one or two% of the average Americans your age with where

you are with no debt and already having a a positive net worth of a couple

hundred, you are killing it and you

actually are paying attention which puts you way above almost everyone who walk

around with their head stuck in the fog

and um that was kind thought that was

very I did that I did that for radio did

you hear that yeah and um yeah I mean

that that's you're incredible you're

doing great you're doing great calm down

enjoy the ride buddy you you really I

can't I can't tell you enough to do this over and over and over again enjoy the ride I I want to say one other quick encouragement because Dave I think you're absolutely right I just want to Echo what Dave said we have with all

young generations and throughout history but even more so now because we're in the social media era God help us I know

unrealistic expectations lead to unmet

expectations I I can't say that enough I

wish I could preach that message to every young person world because here's the deal you nailed it they think when they get to six figures I thought you

talking about my golf game and your golf game oh yeah unrealistic expectations

are unrealistic unmet expectations

that's it no I just my golf game is in the last category just unmet

period it doesn't matter that's what it

is cuz here's the thing when you make $100,000 a year you thought it was going to be easy and when you make a million

dollars a year you thought it was going to be easy it don't get easy MH it just

gets better than if you don't pay attention that's all it does this is the

ramsy show there's a time in your life

anded the baby steps for red ing but you

don't want to do it forever because when

you rent you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's plus rent

means instability in your budget because

it always goes up never down so when

you're ready to buy make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on

Church Hill mortgage Church Hill is

ramsy trusted to help you make the move

from renting to home ownership wisely

Churchill understands that when you buy

a home the ramsy way your mortgage pay payment will be a consistent manageable

part of your monthly budget plus when your home is paid off that was your

largest expense now it's extra money in

your pocket and an asset towards turning

you into a baby steps millionaire get

started on the American dream of home ownership today at Churchill mortgage.com that's Churchill mortgage.com

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones atle 882

55225 this is the Ramsey show thank you

for being with us America Tanner is with

us in Washington DC hi Tanner how are

you I'm good how are you better than I

deserve what's up so my question is I'm curious about

the flexibility of spending more than

30% of your takh home pay on rent found

that pretty difficult to do especially in like an urban area like DC I live in downtown um I make around 990,000 a year

post grad 23y old um I got about 20,000

in cash and 7,000 uh in an investment

account and M mly debt is around seven 7

and a half thousand in student loans and

I spend about $2,000 a month in rent

which is my biggest expense expense by

far but I still find myself able to save

um and spend less on other things I'm just curious your take on on that

approach okay well we tell folks to put

25% of their takehome pay aside for housing and uh no math Works in every

city and in every state you don't get a

pass on math because you're in Washington DC even though Congress thinks you do I was getting ready to say a lot of people think they do yeah a lot of people in DC think you do but you don't uh and the purpose behind it is

not that 25% is Magic Tanner uh the

purpose behind it is don't be house poor if you find yourself able to save and uh

able to invest because you keep all other parts of your life sty so low then

then you're okay but if you're you but what happens to most people is when they've got a high cost of housing in

their budget it squeezes their budget

and there's not room to uh save up to

buy the next car so the next car becomes

debt and there's not room to save up for

Christmas and Christmas becomes debt and

there's not room to save up for a couch

and the couch becomes debt and because

it's all going out in house payment and

so in effect what you did is you uh you

you didn't you know by by squeezing

yourself you did that now you're telling me you've made room in your budget and you're doing okay then you know if whatever you want to do brother but here's the thing whatever you spend on rent is

gone MH I mean you're just setting fire

to $100 bills in the middle of the floor

and so the more $100 bills you burn in the middle of the floor the fewer M less

money you got man I mean it's a pretty simple equation yeah yeah definitely definitely

red is the ability to buy down the road

for sure yeah yeah I mean because you're giving it to them in rent and so I don't

know how you fix that exactly necessarily in your situation maybe your commute is longer maybe there's a roommate involved or uh or maybe you

just say I'm going to it's going to cost me this and it's my choice and I'm an

adult well yeah you're allowed to do all that but our reason to give you giving

you the 25% guideline it's not a rule

it's a guideline is so that you don't

become house po because if you're for instance going to get a mortgage folks in America um the

stupid mortgage company will approve you for almost double that and they'll approve you close to

50% of your take home pay 36% of your uh

ratio you know and so and that's not

based on Tome pay the 36 is that you can

get up house payment up close to half of

your dadgum Tome pay and there's just no

way that budget Works people and well

I'm in California well California they got to do math too even though your Governor doesn't think so you got to do

math you know it's not it's not an option math is math and it's not it's

not a a a moral construct it's a it's a

math thing well to win Tanner in

professional World Financial World

you've got to sacrifice everybody who

wins has to sacrifice something and what

we've done here with this 25% you are

now having to choose do you want to sacrifice money as Dave said by by burning those extra $100 between the 5%

that we're talking about or do you want to sacrifice a little bit of of your time now you're live in downtown DC

that's premium and I get it you may work

on the hill who knows what you do but you're there for a reason but if you move out into the suburbs of Northern Virginia I know it well yes it's a it's

a headache uh but we'd rather you sacrifice the right thing and that's why

we put this I want people to understand what we're teaching here it's not to be hard and fast on a rule it's to help you

learn what you need to sacrifice and in my situation if I were in your situation

Tanner I would be sacrificing my time not my money yeah 23 years old yeah yeah

you know I will tell you this Ken I did

it worse than he's doing it sure worse

yeah he's in good shap my wife and I get out of college and here's how stupid we

were we go and rent a we we have two

dogs we're just out of college we got

two little jobs we go and rent a

three-bedroom townhouse sure luxury

right thing sure that's like five times

what we needed MH because we thought it

was cool do you remember what were in the extra rooms uh

nothing sure cuz by the time we finished

paying the freaking rent we had no money

yeah yeah so what we ended up doing was moving into a little one-bedroom uh

apartment in a questionable uh I don't know what those ladies down the hall were doing in a questionable situation and um you were

hoping you weren't on a Vice episode man

I'm telling you and uh we lived there for a year but it was one

one3 the rent that we were paying before

oneir and so that'd be like you you had

an $1,800 rent and we moved down to a

$600 rent right you know kind of thing

today in today's dollars it was a lot

less than that and the back when the dinosaurs R the Earth but yeah but oh my

gosh wow I did the exact same crap no I

get it I wanted something nice and I had

a job yeah and I'd gotten out of college and I'm I deserved it a lot of 23y olds

that are in a very similar situation tan now just think about this if he gets a roommate and now he's saving let's just

call it $1,000 a month okay splitting

the rent he's paying off that student

loan debt of $7,000 really really fast

and now he's just stacking money so

that's what we're talking Cas stacking

cash man it's so much smarter than renting H paying all that money rent Tyler's in Louisville hi Tyler what's

up um yes had a quick question first of

all you guys are awesome thank you

um uh so I have I'm on baby step 2 and

um been doing ish for a while at the

beginning of the year I got smart and said you're stupid get out of debt um

with the student loans coming back up because I've been basically taking that payment putting it towards everything else mine is Consolidated or I believe

it is at least so um do I look at the

individual loan amounts or do I just

look at the Consolidated amount where I

put it at if it's Consolidated it's now

one amount okay it used to be little loans

if it is one loan I mean if it's if it's

a bunch of little are you pay will you be paying a bunch of little payments or one payment no I pay one payment and

when I look at it I see all the individual ones I took out yeah but you

that doesn't matter the purpose of the

Deb snowball is you want to what what you want to have happen in the debt snowball is you want to um clear a debt

and that payment on that debt to go away

when you clear one of these little debts it doesn't change your payment right that's what I was thinking

I wasn't sure yeah um so I would just

put the total in your debt snowball awesome that works it really

easy thank you sir get after it that's really smart because you know the data is now coming out now that we're actually finding that that you're going to have to pay your student loans which we kind of been telling you for three freaking years but um now that we found

out that we were right again um yes I

just said I Told You So live with it um

but now that we found out you have to pay your student loans there's going to be a lot of questions about student loans and we're one of the things we're finding uh Jade and I were talking about

this earlier is that people uh basically

took the money that they would have been paying on student loans and spent it yes

they did on Vaca vacations alcohol drugs

this is this is the actual surveys you're coming back I went on a party

nice yeah with the money that the

taxpayers told me I didn't have to pay right now because you were in a covid

crisis anybody remember what Co was yeah

it was there it was just a minute ago but it was a crisis if y'all didn't remember and it was such a crisis that nobody could pay their student loans but they were able to use the money that they would have been paying on their student loans and go byy drugs and

alcohol and Vacations so apparently

wasn't too big a freaking crisis what do

I know just going with the data here yeah

that's what happens when you trust a politician with an empty promise that's

not constitutional someone from the

medical community that's to do

math well there's that which is proof

that we've proven that you know once

America got fouchi we figured out what happened this is the Ramsey

show I've been doing this show for over

30 years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible a people that call in and

they spouse has passed away suddenly and

they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah how in the middle

of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reupping it because I'm like

I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time

to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all

of our family's needs for insurance for

many years including of course term life

insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com can Coleman Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author of the book from paycheck to

purpose is my co-host today open phones

atle 8825

5225 thank you for joining us America in

the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the

debt free stage Jared and Christina are

with us hey guys how are you good how

are you welcome where do you guys live

Woodstock Georgia about 40 Mi north of

Atlanta yeah I know it well well welcome to Nashville not a bad drive up here not

bad good to have you so how much debt have you two paid off 136,000 all right and how long did this

take you 7 years to the day that we

bought the house oh okay and what was

your range of income during that seven years uh we started about 60 and ended

about 145 cool what do you'all do for a

living I'm a mechanic for the Post

Office M and I'm a conable u manager at

kenas State University awesome yeah all

right you got a little bit of a commute down there

actually it's only nine nine miles for me oh okay all right not bad all right I

missed I messed up all right so uh 136 7

years sounds like you paid off your house yes all right look at it weird

people way to go you guys what's this

house worth 345 now I'm sorry 345 345

awesome very cool so how much do you

guys have in your retirement savings already uh I think we're at about

100,000 took you know last year was a little bit of a hit on everybody yeah

okay so you're you're going to be about a half million dollar net worth already so you're on your way to be a millionaires in no time way to go that's

fun I just said that out loud did you hear that wow that's pretty stinking

cool guys so what starts you on this

journey seven years ago so actually

started um when we first got married 15

years ago we just celebrated our 15th year anniversary congratulations and so

our first year you know I'm actually not

originally from here so we um knew each

other in person from before and then uh

when I moved here it was really the first time we did anything together um

and we got married um in uh July of 2008

and it was you know the Year great year

to get married so we pretty quickly um

figured out that you know our finances

are will need some um Improvement pretty

quickly uh we had a little bit of debt I

I grew up living pretty frugally um and

so we had some arguments and by the end

of that year we knew we we sold the car

that he had some um debt on and then

when I got a job we actually paid all of

our debt our biggest issue was um the

underwater Mortgage in the for the town

home that um was purchased in

2007 so you know we were kind of bopping

along for a couple years we then we had kids and I ended up staying at home it

was pretty tight um and we were still

kind of trying to figure out where we what are we going to do about the house eventually this has still not come up to

the value that it was and at some point we got an email from our church we go to Woodstock City Church um introducing uh

Financial pce University and um in there I was like ah

you know I'm pretty Frugal keep my

budget um you know after the fact that

kind of tracked of what was spent uh but

it said it'll show you how you can buy

and sell a house so I'm like you know why don't we take this class um so

when we went and took the class I was like you know where have y'all been

before so we did quite a few um things

followed quite a few things um one of them was um we immediately refi that

house to 15 so that we could start

paying um down the the what we owed on

it and um from the 7% interest rate that

I had been paying on it yes essentially

our payment stayed the same but you know more was going so you went down to water three uh was a four run run four at the

time in um 20 it was 2013 um and so yes

2013 I contacted one of elps we loved

her lindsy H um a shout out to her she

came out cuz we knew we couldn't sell the house right away so she showed us what to do you know was just uh um you

know she didn't charge anything for that so we started over the next couple of years we started doing some upgrades to the house like we painted we redid the

not redid the deck but we cleaned up the deck and all some other stuff and so

when the time came in 2016 we were still

kind of figure out where whether we're staying in the area or what not and then our HOA was kind of going down the hill

we decided it was time to put it up for sale um again Lindsay helped us through

that process she was a great selling and

um buying agent there was several um

offers on the house that we were looking at to buy um and um we had had enough

equity out of gotten out enough equity out of the house and we had had some

savings or ra

from a sale of an apartment that I had back home I'm not originally from the US and it was about 20K so we were able to put 20% down like you um teach yes you

not only got out of the bad town home bad HOA that had been upside down but

you were able to put 20% down on the New Deal on the New Deal It Go and then s

years later you paid it off and now it's worth 345 yes you got to feel like a

genius we bought two cars cash during

this time while we were paying this house off yeah wow another shout out I

wanted to do to Rachel I remember her talking about how you know if you want to because I wanted to get um a change

in the career and so I went and took um

classes at a smaller College you know

not a four-year College because that we could cash flow at the time and then now

that I work at KSU I went ahead and finished my bachelor degree debt um with

you know they pay for it they pay for it right and I'm working on my master so quite a few accomplishments along along the way um so how does it feel I want

people who are maybe new to this program going they paid their house off that was

the debt what does it feel like to not

have a house payment now and then as you

look toward the future it's sinking in

it's still not really hit us um but

there were several people I work with that were like oh you need to not worry about that you need to buy this and buy this and go have fun and you can worry

about that later you've got time before retirement and now I've had several guys

come up to me shake my hand like we're proud of you good job that's cool um

they kind of see it can be done now yeah

so yeah and Christina you really I mean

you Ed your game on your whole career that's a nice move it's a very nice move so what was the increase in your pay cuz we looked at the total you guys went from 60 to 145 how much did you increase

so that was incremental um I started

this full-time job in 2018 I was looking

at you know numbers and uh we actually

averaged about 108 my latest promotion

was in January to the manager position that was senior account so how big of a bump was that for you um 14 yeah and or but you know the

previous year I went to senior accountant which that was about she goes

gets the goes and gets the education that is that she can afford in her

budget and then goes to work for a

college and they give her free to

finisher Bachelor so there there's there's a path here called common

freaking sense way to go I'm so proud of

you Heroes excellent job what do you

tell people the key to getting out of debt is stick together talk it through

be in agreement

um you won't always see eye to eye on

everything but work through it yeah make

sure you make sure to get to that point

yeah every morning you know I am the nerd he's the free spirit in the sense

that you know I worry about my

spreadsheets but every Sunday we get together we sit and we just talk you know we dream and so um you know his one

of his hugest contributions is he's actually worked um over time for the

last 10 years six days a week pretty

much every week so there was a lot of

you know it wasn't easy no how old are

you too um 41 today yeah and you happy

birthday and uh and you got a paid for

$350,000 house and I'm 44 and yeah and

you know you're on your way to being millionaires in no time congratulations

we're so proud of you Heroes well done Heroes all right bring the kiddos up give us their names and ages and while

they're coming up we've got a baby steps millionaires book for you a Total Money Makeover book for you and a Financial Peace University membership for you you can use them or give them away that's the live and give box we'll have that for you thanks for coming up to do your debt-free scream so what are their names and ages this is Greg he's 11 M this is

Kira and she's 10 and a half all right

they have no idea yet what their parents have done to change their family tree pretty incredible guys you guys are awesome all right Jared and Christina

Greg and Cara from Woodstock Georgia

136,000 paid off in 7even years house

and every thing making 60 to 145 count

it down let's hear a debt-free Scream 1

2 three we are dead free

yeah this is how it's done I love it she

goes back to school at Community College

yep UPS her game goes and finishes her M

or goes and finishes her bachelor's UPS her game well done guys and he works

overtime like crazy that's right right this is the Ramsey show all right Dave

you have some strong opinions possibly yeah I think so okay

because you really prefer Credit Unions

over big Banks well Credit Unions for

one thing are uh nonprofit which means

that the members the customers own the

credit union so any profits that the

credit union makes goes back into

customer pricing so you get better

interest rate on savings cheaper checking and so on that kind of thing and and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit

on the credit union so I find very few

Credit Unions that aren't very customer Centric well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's

Fairwinds they are an incredible Credit

Union that is really out with the heart to help the customer they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really

good job with customer service and um

the deals that they're offering the Ramsey tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and I love that they encourage getting out of debt they encourage 15-year mortgages I mean it's

like the things that we teach they so line up with and you're right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an

account and I'm not kidding it took less than 5 minutes it was so userfriendly

like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says Fair wins on my phone so I answered it and talked to

someone there and they said yeah they give calls to every new customer and so

again they just really care about your

experience and I I so so appreciate that

plus anything that you can do at a traditional Branch you can do with them

at fairwinds.org or on their app and

you'll have free access to over 33,000

ATMs hey you guys know how much I hate

banks in general and so for me to do

this is a big deal talk to our friends

at Fairwinds and check out the combined

checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe you

guys it's incredible yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live so go to fairwinds.org

Ramsey Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is

my co-host today thank you for joining us America open phones at

88255 225 Shiloh is with us in Billings

Montana hi Shiloh welcome to the Ramsey

show thank you for having me sure what's

up okay so my question is my husband

works for a company that is uned and

they are potentially going to be

striking fairly soon and um my question

is do we hunker down and wait and ride

it out or do we work on paying off our

debt Bill what what's the best solution

to do uh it depends on the probability of

the strike and let's talk that through for a second okay sure um how long has

he worked for that company seven years

have they ever been on strike while he

worked there no sir when was the last

time they were on strike uh 1997 I think no you do not

hunker down okay okay now if it gets up if it

gets up closer and it heats up and it heats up and it heats up and you feel

like the probability the actual facts

not the emotions the facts of what's

going on indicate that you got a 70 or

an 80% chance they are going to go out

then stop everything and pile up cash

but right now what you've got a bunch of saber rattling you know what I mean by

that yes sir I do now the sounds of War

but there's not going to be

War okay yeah I he he is more confident

that there won't be a strike than I am so yeah that and what what I'm trying to

help you do and I have to do this myself

and you know Ken works with people on

careers and do the same thing is we have to separate uh deloney Jo Dr John

deloney talks about this anytime we're facing uh H an anxiety situation A

trauma situation we have to separate

facts from fears facts are our friends

what you are doing is worrying that's

what you just told me and I do that too

yes sir I do that too but when the facts

are that there's been two meetings and

there was a meltdown and the guy stormed

out and the last time time that happened there was a strike well that's a fact

we're probably going into a strike but

in the meantime what it is it's like I don't like this they could just put us out and we got no idea I don't know what's going on I feel out of control well that's just worrying okay both are normal but we

just have to make good decisions based

on all of that yeah and one of the

things you want to look at okay go ahead

go ahead well we have enough in our

savings account to pay off all of our

Consumer Debt do it um

so just go ahead and do it and then yep

we'll be okay okay that makes sense you

won't have any of those payments if you go on strike it' be great that's right

and then Shiloh you and your husband need to be aware because every Union is

different but the one of the major potential strikes that's coming down the pike is UPS right now and in that

particular this is one of the largest un the largest Union in the country you need to find out that's where he works for as UPS okay so I actually okay I

actually know a little bit about this story okay then wait a minute I may change my answer so tell me what's going on no no actually Dave is still right

what we want to do is is that has been reported that that the union is saying and this is posturing as well but your

husband's got to know how much am I

going to get paid during this strike and

for how long because these unions have money set aside for strikes Dave but it

is not a per it's not forever and ever

and ever and so what you have to look at is you have to get the numbers we could

survive I'll continue to get paid for

three months if the strike goes beyond so these are the kind of facts that Dave is talking about he's right we pay attention to this and we go okay I know that the market share that UPS would

lose to FedEx in three months it never

recover from that's right and it'll never happen but the point is is the unions have enough money in a pool your

husband needs to find out how long when

I get paid for and see this is the point

that Dave is making so we could survive

we pay off the debt and we replenish that emergency fund even in a one month

strike CU I don't think it goes longer

than 30 days I don't think it go I don't think it ever these are the facts that you're talking about Dave so you got to know yeah that okay I had no I didn't I

didn't have this other information this is different it's very good but I I now

I'm even more now I'm even more sure

that's right pay off your debt work your system I I'm not saying there's never

going to be a strike I would just say there's a very not going to last a long time let me tell you UPS cannot afford it no can't afford it FedEx will eat

their lunch yeah they'll be gone they would lose they you it the

business aspect of that is just mindboggling so yeah no no you're good

you're good very good and one other point to point out this is like this is like dims and Republicans uh posturing

over the debt ceiling let me just tell you it don't matter who they are I've been old enough I've been around long enough to know they're going to keep extending the debt so I I hear that headline oh it's going to shut the world down no it's not the Republicans are going to shut the world down they're going to keep extending the debt this is posturing a negotiation you know this well so in this case nothing to worry

about here at all you're going to be paid at least a month as well even the

union folks are saying we have about three months worth of dues set aside

that would pay our members while we're

striking so those are the nuances but

actual facts that help you make this decision massive deal wow I'm I'm going

to read on this I'm really ignorant okay

fine hey that's why you pay me and I

truly don't like being ignorant so I I don't mind you being smarter than

me oh no I'm not I just have to pay

attention to work rated issues like this

you know Morgan with us

Louisiana hi Morgan how are you I'm

great hi Dave thank you for taking my

call sure how can we help um so yes sir

so I am kind of in a situation my

husband and I um we have been married almost three years in February and um we

have our finances uh separate um I have

three children and he has one daughter who's in college um and so we're just

trying to figure out how to go about uh

combining the finances um with the

salary I make and his salary and what we

owe and expenses in that nature what

steps do you advise us what do we begin

it's so many how long ago were you

divorced oh gosh mine was uh in 15 okay

and uh was money money problems a

contributing factor no sir well how long ago was he

divorced uh he was uh I believe 18 2018

mhm more money problem a contributing

factor uh yes sir yeah okay so at some

point in your new marriages you have to

be married to the person you are married to now not the one you used to be

married to meaning he can't

hold her misbehavior with money against

you and use that as a reason to not

combine finances that's why I ask those

questions this is typically what causes people to not combine their finances who have been married once they got trashed the last time mhm and it's hard not it's

hard it's hard to go back you know it's hard to go oh yes I'm going to treat you

know but he really has as a part of his

healing from that other divorce is his

commitment to you and the two of you

combining your finances so tactically what you do is uh we change our we

change our Proverbs I'm Proverbs we

change our pronouns okay it's our money

not your money my money it's our our

income it's our debt it's our house it's

our grocery bill there's not a yours and

mine if you don't do this you lower your

probability of Building Wealth

tremendously all of the data that we

have says that people that work together

have a much higher probability of

becoming wealthy than those who run two separate households like a couple of freaking

roommates absolutely Dave and and that's

how we both feel that we're just like

you know room so you just put it in one

pile you have one pile of income at the

top of the page yours plus his equals

our and then we have our expenses down

the page our food our lights our water

our house our our hour our vacation uh

we're visiting your mother and we are

paying for that and whatever it is right that kind you got it it's all the way down the page and if you guys are paying

for his daughter's call

that's our expense cuz you married her

when you married him yes right am I am I

am I off track here you are on track and

I'm going to say I to um am at fault in

struggling with the finance in the first marriage yeah so we both have been um

you got to forgive the person you're married to now cuz they didn't do

anything

wrong it's hard though cuz it's human

nature to not put your hand out once a dog bch you you know ouch this is the

Ramsey

[Music]

Show live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us America I'm Dave Ramsey your host Ken Coleman Ramsey personality host of the

Ken colan show and author of the number one selling book from paycheck to

purpose where he helps people with their

careers their jobs and their work and

he's going to be doing that today right here on the Ramsey Show phone number here is 88255 225 Louisa is with us in

Washington DC hi Louisa how are you good

afternoon so great to be speaking with

you today thank you so much for taking my call thank you what's up all right

I've got a what would Dave scenario and

I'm pretty sure I know what you're going to say but I kind of just want to walk through some options I have and it's concerning my mortgage so a little bit

of background um I have an arm um that

resets every November and um it hasn't

really been you know much of an issue until recently obviously because the

rates have gone up so it is resetting

from 4 and a half to 6 and a half%

joyful um yep the balance on the loan is

999,000 I've actually paid off 2,000 in

the last year and I am on track to pay

this off my goal is December of 2025

okay so here are the scenarios I just

want to walk through want to get your thought um option one is just to you

know stick stick with you know stick with the the new payment coming up in

November uh my payment is actually going

down $180 even with the rate going up

because I've paid off so much so it's actually going down um $ so that's

option one is just proceeding with you know 6 and a half% um and then you know

the rate would reset you know next year

option two is a recast and I've kind of

read where you're not a big fan of a

mortgage recast um and want to get your

thoughts on this so obviously the rate would stay the same six and a half

percent um this would require a $20,000

payment um by the end of October and

that would lower the payment $4 a month

okay um so that's option two and then

why would you want to lower it if you're paying it off in two years what's the

benefit well iess I guess that's where I

I I think I don't I don't understand

it's like we're trying to pay it off in two years or two and a half years right

right right and so why how does lowering

the payment accomplish that um I mean it's lowering the

interest that I'm paying no it's not

that would be no it's not

um if you recast are you're going to recast at a lower interest rate no I'm

recasting I'm taking it from a balance

of 999,000 to oh it would lower the

balance yeah but you could do that

anyway you don't have to recast to do

that yes I could and that's what I've

been doing is just recast all recasting

does is reset the payment based on a longer term it doesn't change the

interest charged right right okay so

there's no benefit to you mathematically

to recast okay given that you're planning

to pay it off in two years yes correct

and here's the other thing is that I I don't have $20,000 just sitting around

right's right exactly so that kind of

brings me to option three um and let me

let me just preface this by saying I heard you about a year and a half ago

maybe two years ago before the rates you

know were creeping up because I was

going to re refinance and I remember you tell a caller don't refinance if he can

pay it off in three years so I kind of went with that model and I'm I'm on I'm

on target I'm on track to pay this off

and that that is really why I did not

refinance um but option three would be

digging into my brokerage account and

paying it off entirely I have I have

about $200,000 I'd have to cash you know

not in a retirement you have a brokerage account sitting there with enough to pay it off yes I do pay it off

today yeah I knew you knew I was G to do

that I I did I did I still wanted to

walk through the options okay so if if

you had a paid for home with a brokerage

account with a $100,000 Less in it would you go borrow $99,000 on your home paid

for home to put more money in your brokerage account no it's the same thing

yeah yeah I think I think I'm just

having

some let me tell you what's going to happen all right that you don't

anticipate because I've been the other side of it myself and with a whole bunch

of other people you do not understand

when you pay this off and you walk out

in the backyard with no shoes on that

the grass is going to feel so much different there's going to be a level of

Peace blow through your home like a nice

cool wind that you don't even know is

coming when you owe no man

nothing all this hand ringing you've

been doing for the last few minutes trying to figure out what to do all

that's gone just clean and simple you just own

your house you're weird I love

it I love it and listen if you really

hate it then go get your new

mortgage yeah but I don't think you're going to hate it I think you're going to feel freedom that you have not felt in your adult

life yep and I know that from the having

experienced it myself CU I don't have any debt and haven't had for 30 years

and I walk around without all of these

weights on my shoulders and um that that a lot of

people have and I get to make different decisions and have a different level of calm in the middle of a storm and all of

that pay off your house Louisa please I

promise you you won't regret it but if I'm completely Bonkers and you do regret

it you can always go get you another

mortgage and theoretically put it back

at The Brokerage there's a fear there you could hear it yeah well no it's just this angst of the devil I know yeah

that's right the devil I know versus the piece I've never known and um it it's I

don't know if I'm doing something wrong I don't know if which is the correct thing and let me just tell you man when

you get no payments in the whole

freaking world financial

peace two words that don't go together

like Airline service man wow like Postal Service sorry to you

postal people oh my gosh sorry to you

Airline people but I mean really I mean it's Financial Peace two words that

don't go together I mean I've got money

and a brokerage I've got my emergency

fund I've got retirement going and I own

my whole freaking

house some of you need to breathe that

in and make that a goal some of you spend a lot of calories

flipping stuff over in your head ringing

your hands trying to figure out

something when the answers are usually

pretty simple clean it up people

simplify

simplify that's it

simplify yeah it's hard to beat guys

hard to beat this is the Ramsey show

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Ramsey well about eight years ago I

looked up on Twitter back when I looked

at Twitter and uh there were some guys

on there poking fun at all kinds of

people and then the next thing I knew they were making fun of me and they're

funny as crud and some of my favorite

follows on social media the be the

Babylon B Kyle man one of the founders

of the Babylon b along with his friend

Adam uh who's gone on to do other things

now but they started this thing over in

California and uh a satirical look at

church for one thing and church making

fun of us church people by church people because you're a pastor's kid or no you were a pastor P yeah you were a pastor at one point my dad's a rocket scientist so oh well there's that wow for real

yeah no it's not a joke you know not

everything I say is a j right right well I'm just checking I didn't know if you're Point all right so right Kyle man is the editor and chief of the bee The Babylon be uh around here all the Ramsey

folk are big fans of the bee and uh we

recommend you guys check it out if you want to have a good Snicker a good laugh

uh a couple times a day and you ought to get something positive out of social media so there's a way you can do it so

welcome Kyle good to have you we're big fans man good to be here thanks to thanks for having me so fake news you

can trust all right did Trump steal that from you or did you steal it from Trump it's ours man it's copyrighted

look at that yeah we made the T-shirt so

we own the phrase but fake news he stole from you fake well no we stole fake news from that's what I thought yeah but you're fake we owe him no royalties on it but fake news you can trust is yours

yeah that's all us cuz you can't trust all the fake news but you can trust this one trust the Bon B great great play

great satire I mean you got a sense of humor I love mean sarcasm is my uh my

love language so I love the whole thing and you guys have come at me a bunch of times and I've loved every bit of it it's we always get good response uh uh

because you're not too hard on me but

but you get a good use you want us to be

no I appreciate it I'm trying not to

make you mad yeah I don't I don't I don't want I don't need anybody else picking on me out there so uh but satire

is tough I mean it's hard is it harder

to create satire uh when real life things are so

over the top I mean it's so weird out

there that it's like reality is satire

yeah uh GK Chesterton wrote a hundred

years ago that he he thought satire

would be impossible because the real news was so absurd you wrote that in like 1911 and you picture how crazy the

news has gotten from 1911 until 2023 you

know you just you open up the news and you can't tell if it's a real news headline or the Babylon be headlines sometimes I can't tell and I'm writing the the headlines yeah you know that's

how difficult it is yeah we I mean when

I was a kid the local newspaper you

might not agree with their politics but it was least objective the CBS Nightly

News with Walter konry was at least

objective but if I look at CNN's website

Fox's website look at the local newspaper here in Nashville uh it more

resembles the national Inquirer when I

was a kid than it did then it does I mean even their their their look tone

feel their fonts and everything it's

it's just so salacious so bizarre it's

aliens you know that that was was reserved for that was reserved for the national inquire in the line of when you're buying groceries you know yeah

but it has all shifted that way to where you know it you guys probably get confused for real stuff sometimes don't you oh absolutely yeah we've been fact checked dozens of times our jokes get

fact checked by Snopes USA Today of

course all all different kinds of isets fact check our jokes because people think they're real what's the most famous case of a story being taken very

seriously well Snopes fact checked one

of our articles that was uh CNN

purchases industrial washing machine to

spin the

news somebody actually checked on that

and that got fact checked and our Facebook page got demonetized deplatformed you know all of that stuff because of that article because it was fact checked and they said oh you guys are sharing fake

news yeah it's a joke because CNN yeah

theant CNN really didn't do that who

knew yeah well as far as we know yeah yeah as far as we know far as we know can't is there is there anything off limits for you guys or how how what's that editorial process like when I I

even hate to say editorial but there is a version of that yeah well we won't be

too mean to Dave Ramsey that's our number one we like that we like that that's our number one rule uhhuh useing

for clicks and laughs but that's enough just click and laughs all friendly stuff

but uh no I mean I don't think there's any topic that's off limits for the saturnist and honestly that's why you

know a lot of left leaning comedy these days isn't funny anymore because they have so many no fly zones things that they won't make fun of that it doesn't

surprise you anymore you know imagine if they were to make fun of their own worldview you know things in their own worldview it would be shocking because they don't do that you know so I think you do need to be able to make fun of yourself you do need to be able to make fun of things in the culture um I mean I

just think the main the main guideline that we use is that if we're making fun of a serious topic like we're trying to call attention to a really you know heavy topic like abortion or something along those lines then our jokes are going to be that much more serious you know we don't want to make people think that we're making light of those things sure so that's kind of one of the one of the guidelines that we use yeah so but

you are an equal opportunity offender I mean you go after just about everybody in one way or another I mean you make fun of fox or CNN right or left issues

or uh you know you know conservatives do

this or or uh you know lefties do this

or whatever I mean you you you get on every it's fun yeah well and you have to

like I think to be a good saturnist you

have to first be able to laugh at yourself you have to be able to make fun of your own and that's what you know that's what made the Babylon B get so popular so fast because we were writing the the jokes about the worship leaders who wear the v-neck and all that oh yeah

absolutely and our friend Dave Ramsey here you know those kind of jokes showed people like hey they're not afraid to make fun of themselves and that kind of gives you the right to then go after the other side a little bit too all right so I got to know this if you look to the

recent past or maybe a 100 years ago as

a saturnist who would you have loved to

been in the public scene now where you could have taken a crack at him whether that be in the faith-based world politics Sports what what comes to mind when I ask you that yeah so we launched

we launched like right at the end of the Obama Administration you know and so we

were kind of like during the Trump Clinton years so we did kind of launch it in the perfect time when it was like you could make a lot of good fun of trump if you had a good sense of humor about him and you could make a lot of fun of of Hillary obviously too right um

so we launched it kind of that perfect time but yeah the last the last 100

years I mean it would have been great to be around in the 80s with rean I mean

the Clinton years you got people had so

much fun with on SNL but that's back when SNL used to make fun of both sides and you know they would back when SNL was funny was right back when the late

night people would make fun of both sides you know George W bush obviously was great for humor just with his mannerisms oh yeah so we kind of missed out on a lot of that but at the time there were comedians covering it you know there was the SNL and the late nights that were actually doing that stuff you know I I remember him telling a story when I was interviewing him about strategery yeah yeah he thought he

actually thought he he said I thought I did say that and he was talking to the

writer at at Saturday Night Live Lauren

whatever or the producer and Lauren said No George I said that I said you said

that but you never really said that and

he he owned it he thought I he said I thought I said it it was the funniest thing ever and so yeah but that you got

to be able to laugh at yourself in the process and you got to be able to enjoy that ride no question about it so um how

do you determine uh you guys put content

on almost all the major platforms uh

from podcast to posts on Facebook posts

I guess you're are are you banned from Facebook no okay not banned from Facebook okay all right but are you banned from anything right now um we got

banned from Tik Tock which is you know a

good thing in some ways yeah because then you don't have to be on Tik Tac yeah but uh I think we got let back on

so I don't know if we're actually banned from anything right now what got you banned from Tik Tok I you can't joke about anything on Tik Tok you know we'll do jokes about the

the tamest joke you can imagine and they'll say you know community community standards politically sensitive politically sensitive you know what's crazy about that is they won't let you make fun of anything but they'll let kids go on and say stupid crap about

time blindness and how she's mad at her

boss this is the latest

rage this will make Dave's head explode

I'll have to tell him during the commercial break to go deflate him after he can't handle it on the air it's too much but they'll let kids rage yeah but

you can't make a joke yeah well that's part of the danger of social media and algorithms who's controlling the algorithm and controlling what we see we already know that with Tik Tok you know they they change the algorithm based on who you are if you're in America if you're in China the algorithm is different based on what they want to produce in the culture so so how do you

guys with all those different platforms determine which piece of content worked

um I mean there there's some there are

some social media platforms where uh a

certain joke will hit a little little bit better like for a long time Twitter was kind of the political space where

politics J F did well yeah you're a big

hit on Facebook and Instagram for us y

you know I love it that's good okay good

so yeah it just depends on the audience and where they are well we're just here to serve I'm saying yeah Dave you're

huge on the grham you're huge on the grham as the kids say that's it and huge

on the be baby that's it that's what I'm

saying Babylon B Kyle man thanks for

stopping by brother we love your work it's a lot of fun you guys if you haven't followed it jump in and follow you'll get a laugh and uh you might get offended and that'll be good for you too just your way through it you got to love it the Babylon B check it out this is

the ramsy show Rachel do you ever get

these sketchy text messages that are like hey you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order yes I have George

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why we recommend delete me they help with that yeah they do delete me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today today's Ramsey Show

question of the day is sponsored by why

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today's question comes from Nikki in Kansas my husband has been at his current job for over five years he has

received yearly inflationary raises a

new manager position was recently created and my husband considered applying for it but before he could it

was given to another employee that has no previous experience in the role this

new manager now repeatedly asked my husband for for advice and wants him to

work extra hours and to cover his lack

of confidence I think it's time for him to find a new job but he wants to make

it work here his annual review is coming

up should he mention the situation and

bring up needing increased compensation

or a path to growth well Nikki I you

know I I when somebody has done me wrong

I found Dave that my wife Stacy has

always taken it worse I don't know if Sharon's that way or not but it feels

like this situation where your husband's griped a little bit about this

um Nikki and and you've gotten really

upset about it and um I I would listen

to your husband here he wants to make it work and based on the facts you've given

us he never raised his hand for the job

and because he didn't raise his hand

whoever hired this other employee is not

on the on the line for that because they

can't read mine so in this situation I

always tell people to never ask directly

for a raise I teach to uh talk about a

growth plan uh after you talk about a

desire to grow in other words I think in

his annual review he need to sit down and say Hey listen um you know I was

thinking about raising my hand for this other position I didn't and that's on me

but what it did show me is that I want more I want to lead I want to step up I

want to climb here at company XYZ So to

that end uh in my review whether you got

it for me today but in the future uh in

the near future I'd like to meet with you and discuss a growth plan what tools

can I add to my tool belt in other words

skills and experience and then what are

some shortcomings what are some areas that may be blind spots for me that I need to be aware of so that I do better

and make myself a better uh employee uh

and then uh can we lay that plan out and

how do we measure it so that you and I are operating off the same sheet of paper sh same sheet of music and and and

and if we measure that uh will that lead

to opportunity for more responsibility

which should come with more compensation

that's the spirit the posture that you

should have so that you do not put your leader on the defensive because many times they are not the sole decision maker in you getting a promotion and a raise and so the reason I prescrib that

that way Dave is it allows them to have some ownership in it they don't feel put on the spot they don't feel backed into a corner and U then we have an adult

mature professional conversation about

uh a path

forward the other thing I want to ask

yourself um is who is ambitious here you

or your husband because a he didn't raise his

hand for this position B his wife wrote

us an email

m not

him two indicators he ain't real fired

up and so are not as fired up as you are

that's correct that's very obvious so

um I I don't want you to want something

for him more than he wants it for himself because that's going to come through when he sits down in his review

he needs to be confident competent how

can I add value to this organization

what do I need to do to make myself more valuable so that I can grow here grow

meaning grow in responsibility and in

value that I'm adding and hopefully in compensation someday and that requires a

a body language a a little

Swagger yeah you got to show some Hunger

I think what what they want to see here is I want to get better I want to do

more be more and that's attractive yeah

I and and you know I think that's a

discussion maybe your husband doesn't want any of that maybe you want it I think it's very possible so um you need

to talk that through before you send him into the lion's cage open phones at

88255 225 Matthew is in Houston Texas hi

Matthew how are you hey guys thanks for

taking my call sure what's up hey so I have a budgeting question

I'm trying to figure out what I should do for uh an extra

20,000 um in income I'm going to receive

three to four times this year uh from

overtime work send it to Dave's Bahama

fund P box no I'm kidding okay all right

so you're gonna make it you're gonna make an extra 80

grand uh yeah so we

very nice pretty nice where are you on

the baby steps bro uh I'm not sure what baby step

exactly but okay so this whole this whole thing's new to you okay that's cool that's fine okay we teach a process

to use all extra money to achieve wealth

as fast as possible and we apply it in an order a

forced ranking of importance okay and

that that that system is called the baby steps one baby step at a time and you'll

become wealthy so I'll walk you through

them right quick you ready okay first thing you need to do is

save $1,000 doar I bet you've already done that yes how much money do you have in

savings uh just savings I have about 50k

okay good for you and how much debt do you have not counting your home none good okay baby step one is

save $1,000 baby step two is to become

debt free everything but house ding ding

check those two boxes three is to have

an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of

expenses if we call that 50,000 in that

emergency fund you're there three baby

step four is start putting 15% of your

income towards retirement not more not

less in 401ks and Roth IRAs are you

doing that yeah I'm maxing them out it's

more like 25% at the moment okay baby

step five is kids college do you have

kids uh no I'm single well that's easy

we skip that one baby step six is pay

off your house early how much do you owe

on your home yeah I owe uh 200 on my home and

right now I'm putting an extra $400 a

month towards the principal okay and what do you make what's your total income sir uh well depending what this OT uh

should be close to about 200 this year

okay and you're single and you have no debt payments if I woke up in your shoes

what would I do following those steps I

just gave you that I've taught 10 million people um I I would tell you to

reduce your 401k to 15% not maxed out and I want you

to take everything you can squeeze out of your monthly budget including this

bonuses that are coming in and throw it

at the mortgage let's pay this house off

in two years okay okay yeah that's um kind of

what I've been leaning towards too I don't like having it hang over my head but um I was also wondering if I should

consider a side brokerage account or

after the house is paid off okay so after the house yeah here's

here's why here's why okay this is I not

I don't want it hanging over my head there's actual data okay we did the

largest study of millionaires in North

America ever done 10,167 of them two primary things caused

them to have the first1 to10 million of

net worth investing steadily into their

401k and paying their home

off they and paying the home off is a

big part of it by the way so paid for

house how old are you I'm 26 and the house is worth

what uh probably about 260 okay so when

the house gets paid off by the time it's paid off somewhere around 34 years old

33 years old you're going to have a net worth of over a million dollar at the

track you're on right now so way to go

dude you're killing it proud of you hang

on I'm going to send you a copy of the book baby steps millionaires it's my

latest number one best seller and uh

it'll show you exactly the stuff I'm talking about why when and where and it'll help you dial this in you are a

stud keep it up man this is the Ramsey

Show Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is

my co-host today thank you for joining

us America we're so glad you're here

open phones at 88255 225 Janet is in boisey Idaho hi

Janet welcome to the Ramsey Show hey

kenon Dave it's a pleasure ours too how

can we help yeah so I'm calling today

just to see how we as we is uh me and my

husband can get ahead of our bills it

seems like every single month we pay our

bills 3 weeks after the due date and

then a week later they're due again

so we've tried you know budgeting and just trying

to get ahead and we just can't seem to get that curve um's call to see what

tips and tricks you could provide for us

okay what's your household income it's

about 75,000

gross okay and how much debt do you have

not counting your house 39,000 on what

on student loans is 24, 5,000 in credit

cards and a 9,000 or 10,000 on um RV a

travel trailer on a trailer okay and you make

75k a year that's right between the both

of us okay all right

um all right so where do you think your

money is going well I know that it was going to a

lot of eating out um I actually just got

my husband on board about two month to go to do like the baby steps I've been

doing it probably by myself for like a whole year um ever since and it seems

like actually we've been on this momentum of just being behind for like

the last year and we're just sick of it

I'm tired of handling it so I have him stepping in on the finance is as well as

just really you know being careful with

where our money is going and so you know

I've tried for the last two months we would just been you know paying every single week um because we get paid every

week so that's kind of okay so if I sat down with you and your

husband with a yellowad at the kitchen

table and I said okay this is what you have coming in this week let's let's map

out where every one of those dollars is going this is what you have coming in the next week let's map out where every one of those dollars is going let's map out you you should have enough with the

numbers you gave me we should yeah we

should and that's but you're not doing

that right there it is okay so you need

you need to sit down and you can jump on every dollar but the number one the first thing is the two of you have to do this together not turn it over to him cuz he cuz he can do it and you can't do

it that's not true okay both of you

together need to do this because what's

going to have to happen is you're going to have to decide not to do a bunch of stuff you're doing now that does that

doesn't matter as much as getting in control matters right I want to get in control

more than I want to go out to eat I want to get in I want to get out of debt and have a life more than I want to go on vacation uh I I want to get in control

more than I like this travel trailer I want to get in control more than and I'm

sick and tired of living stress to stress to stress to stress to stress

with no hope feeling like a rat in a

freaking wheel and when the both of you

when both of you are saying that and

then you put numbers to that and you say

okay this week on Friday we get a check

for X the following Thursday we get a

check for y the following Saturday we

get a check for Z and you write that set

down and you plan out every one of those

dollars and where every one of them are going because the water bill is due on

the second week the house payments due

on the first week the uh student loan

payments due in the third week and we're going to figure out what's coming out we're going to take this much for food this much for food this much for food in the four different weeks and we're going to allocate every one of those bills to

a certain week and some of them across

weeks so that we have enough money to

take care of them and every dollar has

an assignment on paper on purpose before

the month begins we agree on it and spit

shake and pinky swear and then we don't

do anything else with money except what we freaking wrote down right and it seems like we've been

doing that for the last two months but we can't catch that curve we can't get out so you write it all down and you don't have enough no we do have enough

but it seems like it's gone every single

week now if you wrote it down to have

enough and then you did something else

other than what you wrote

down well I guess where we're struggling

is just like every time we do try to we pay we get our bill every single you

know whatever a month we pay it once a

week and but we have so many little ones

it seems like we just don't know where they're not all written down prioritize them yeah we need to prioritize them better or every one of them on paper on

purpose in a certain week this is a week

one bill this is a week four bill this

is a week two Bill different bills have

different weeks and they all go within

the income of that week and then when

the check comes in the check is already

spent so you can't do anything except

what you wrote down you are not managing

to the budget you're writing it out as a hypothetic on then going doing what you used to do right and you're not focusing on it

get ahead but listen I'll tell you how

you've gotta that get you ahead just what I told you yeah if you you won't write down not getting

ahead you'll get ahead as soon as you do

that you've got room in this budget yeah you're disorganized and

chaotic yeah and when you give every

single if I paid you $100,000 a year to

pay these bills exactly on time and you

had no emotional tie to them whatsoever

and you would look at this family this distant family over in boisey Idaho and

tell them to quit going to freaking rest

I don't care how tired you are no whining allow you're going to pay the

freaking bill on time if I told you to

do that you could do it for someone

else right it's because it's not right

it's sixth grade math you can do this so

I you have got to get very detailed very

intentional and then live the detail

don't write it all down and then go do what you used to do and so well I just I

I I didn't feel like cooking to I don't

give a crap go home and get some

leftovers out of the dadgum

refrigerator that's how you do it you

can I mean we all have that you just got

to talk to your whiny self and say no whiny self I've done that myself I I

mean Sharon and I have done it to each other we know what it feels like but you

have to go I want control more than I

feel tired tonight you know and that's the biggest

thing that's the phrase that comes out of everybody's mouth by the way before they go out to eat or before they hit

the fast food and get dog food at Taco

Bell you know or whatever and so it's

just it's horrible it's horrible value

it's horrible nutrition and it's out of

control spending and so it's just yeah

so you got to write it down and get on

every dollar download the app and I tell

you what I'll give you the upgrade I'll give you the premium every dollar where it ties to your bank and we'll get you

started on that Janet cuz what you all desperately need is a detailed budget

and here's how you do a budget folks you

give every single penny a name every

bill has a week allocated in every

dollar it's called paycheck planning and

you plan out each paycheck for the month

and you and your spouse both look at it

every dollar is assigned to saving to

giving or to a

bill period every single dollar there is

no Miss there is no I well 50% of my

budget is non-allocated bull crap

allocate every

dime in every dollar on the paycheck

planning every dollar has a name before

the month begins August is coming

where's your August money going to be it's going to freaking disappear if you don't tell it what to do it will leave

and go to people's houses who tell it what to do and then you'll say stuff like the poor get poorer and the rich get richer yes they do because the rich

tell their money what to do do yeah

that's how this works and so you got to

get on top of this stuff and lean into it every dollar has an assignment you

stick to it you agree on it with your spouse and you do not spend a dime

unless it's on that page on that every

dollar app if it's not on there and it

comes up and it's a surprise and you forgot it you got to take something else

off because if you put something on there and you're already spent it all now you're an overdraft and now it doesn't work and I can't seem to get caught up well you're not getting caught cuz you're not living your plan do the

plan live the plan write the plan live

the plan do the plan live the plan live

the plan and it's your plan by the way

you decide where it's going to go but I'm telling you what I'm doing I'm not going out to eat I'm not going on vacation I'm selling a stupid travel trailer everything else is for sale so much the kids think they're next we're

going to take extra jobs and we're getting control cuz I'm tired of being stressed out that's what I'm doing if

I'm in your shoes and I did it by the way this is the ramsy SHO show

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## 85. If Nothing Changes Your Money Won't Change | March 26, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:39:24 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. is my co-host today, Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Ramsay Personality, and [music] My Daughter. Open Phones at8255225.

Ben is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Ben. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, I was calling to get some input on

combining uh finances with my wife. um

seems when I when we bring it up, it

causes arguments and I guess how can you take the baby steps to becoming a team?

>> Mhm. So why does it cause an argument?

Uh, I think just the um

I guess the oneness, not being in

control of her finances for herself, but combined

as one. I think that scares her a little bit. >> Yeah. You don't She doesn't think she has a vote.

>> Uh, it's not that. I think it's um she's

scared when we set up cuz I've talked

about doing a budget every month of

possibly causing an argument if something doesn't go as planned, but I've reassured her that no, that's that's not going to happen.

>> Work together. >> How long have y'all been married?

>> Uh right at two years.

>> Okay. >> I don't think you're telling me everything.

>> Uh I am. I mean, we've had plenty of conversations about it. I've tried open opening up about it. We have a joint account and all my money goes into that

or our money, but her paycheck stays.

>> Well, one of two things is going on. Either she's a selfish princess and she wants to control her own life and doesn't want to any accountability for anything or uh she doesn't trust you

that she will have a vote in this process >> or that you're not going to misbehave with money. Has there been anything in the past, Ben, of something that you've done that could have broken that trust?

>> Um, not from our relationship side, but

her childhood. Um, her mom didn't I guess it she took the

selfish act when they got a divorce. So,

that kind of scares her.

>> I'm sorry. She took the what?

Um, so she tried taking all of her um her dad's money.

>> So I >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But there's laws that dictate who gets what in a divorce.

And if the reason we're not going to combine our finances is because I'm planning my divorce, we have other issues.

So, we aren't planning a divorce. I I'm

just making assumptions. I don't know definitively. >> Okay. Yeah. I don't either. Um so,

I you know, I I don't know.

You know, we're not sure why that why this lady doesn't want to do this other than her kid parents got a divorce when she was a kid, which is really not a reason to not combine finances with my current husband if I'm deeply in love and we have a high quality relationship that we both have a vote in and there's communication on and full transparency.

Do you >> unless unless she thinks you're trying to control her or she is doing a bunch of crap that she doesn't want you to know about. >> Do you guys make a significant difference in salary, Ben?

Um, no. Just she brings home around 3,500

every month and uh I bring home around

4,000. >> Okay. Yeah. I I don't know. I would Yeah. I would dig into more of her why, which I don't know if you've done that of understanding. >> If you have, you can't you're having trouble verbalizing. >> Yeah. So I would figure out what is the what is really going on um with her of

her hesitation and her refusal and yeah

depending on what I mean those are two extremes on the on the spectrum is what Dave laid out which is true. So, she falls on one end of the spectrum and not and and out of that then is what you're going to have to talk to her about and you guys together get a plan where you're both comfortable and and the why is the motivation is so that we can work together and have a oneness in our life and our money is a tool that we use every day in our life and so when we see that as a household and we see that togetherness uh it helps so many decisions and the logistics as well like come fall into place.

think you need to do some more digging, Ben, on on what's going on in her her fears, and then you need to be able to verbalize that to her on why you're wanting to do money differently than you are now, and that's going to be important, too.

>> Jack is in Houston. Hi, Jack. How are you? >> Hey, how are y'all doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so I had a question. Um, I'm young.

I'm about 20. I have my own business and I am also a full-time college student.

I'm kind of trying to decide if it is

better for me to invest in myself than set a set amount to put into like

savings or stock accounts. Uh, I know

you have a rule of about like 15%, but for me, I'm about to transition to um

maybe I guess another question would be

is it okay to go into debt for a business property kind of like a house as long as it's just that like not like car spending or anything like that?

>> I'm sorry. A house as a business property. What's that? So, I mean, if

like if I took out a loan for a business

property, would that be bad necessarily?

Yes, it would be bad. Go into debt over that. >> You're 20 years old, you're in college.

That'd be really bad. It'd be dumb.

>> Why would you saddle yourself with that?

So, what are you studying in school?

>> Business management. >> Okay. And when will you graduate?

um two years from now, but I'm kind of already phasing out to possibly just not

finishing my degree. I'm making about $100,000 a year and I only work weekends. And so the amount of income I make for the time >> What are you What are you doing?

>> I build show trucks.

>> You You build what?

>> Like big lifted trucks, like audio systems, lifted trucks, etc.

>> Are you bringing home a h 100red,000, Jack? Is that like what you paid yourself or is that what the business brought in?

>> Uh, so I'm the sole owner. I only pay myself. Um, that's what the business profited. Okay. >> But I I mean there's there's taxes and I

still put money into I put at least the $7,000 in my Roth IRA. That's like my goal is I'll always do that. But I'm also like I have a lot of cash stacked up and no debt. And so I have a lot of cash that I'm like, "Hey, I could maybe get a $80,000 piece of property, build a

$50,000 shop on it. I could pay for half

up front. And would it be a bad idea to

necessarily like take out a loan on something that I'll own instead of renting?" >> No, I would stay right where you are until you can pay cash for that.

>> So just save save up cash completely.

>> Yeah. We own real estate that our businesses are in. We pay cash for it as we go. we move at the speed of cash and

that'll keep you from getting your pinched later when something turns down in this business. [music] Um, I also think that if you're studying a good business curriculum, you're probably going to learn some things in the next two years that you will use in your business for the rest of your life. Uh, I have a four-year degree in business and finance and I use some of the things I learned 40 years ago almost every day.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

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Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

If [music] you have a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, use Ramsay Smart Tax. It's really affordable, makes filing super simple, and it has built-in support in case you need a little help. Ramsey Smart Tax.

Filing early means you get the best deals, and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to ramseysolutions.com/smartax and file quickly, easily, and affordably. [snorts] Oscar is with us in Orlando. Hi, Oscar. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> That's good. Um, so I currently have

$2,000 um in debt, me and my wife. That's her credit card debt. I also have that one's at a 17% interest rate. I also have $3,53ish

at a 30% interest rate on one of my

credit cards and then $1,200

on another credit card at 0% interest rate. and $2,800

in collections currently. And I also

have my wife's car which owes $10,000

and we currently are at 27% interest

rate and I have $8,00

how much cash?

>> 8,800.

>> Wow. Okay. All right. So, I don't know

what I should do with it. Rather pay off

the car because then I could pay it off within a month. And we've been making payments on it for three years now. And we already gave $8,000 towards the original $13,000 debt towards it. So, I kind of just want to get rid of it. That way, I don't have those extra $500 I

could put towards my savings and then pay off the other debt.

>> So, um, how old are you guys?

I'm 20 and my wife's 21.

>> Wow. Okay.

And uh what's your what's your what's your household income, sir?

>> Um right now my take-home is 1,300

bi-weekly. >> Okay. All right. A thou Say that how

much again?

>> That's 2,600 a month.

>> Okay. And does your wife work?

>> No. >> Why? >> She stays at home watching the kids.

>> Oh. How many kids have you got?

>> I got one. >> Okay. And $2600 a month is your income.

>> Correct. >> And you're working 40 hours.

>> Yeah. Sometimes 37, sometimes 40. Once I

get my promotion, I'll be working 50 and then my income will jump up.

>> When is that? >> Cuz I just started a new job. That's probably in about two more months.

>> What are you doing, Oscar? For work?

>> Um, manage a Chipotle.

>> Okay. Okay. Cuz you're not making any money. >> Um, >> yeah. >> All right. >> Are you guys able to pay rent? How much is your rent or mortgage?

>> So, currently we're living with her parents. >> Okay. >> Cuz my collections is on the other apartment I had when I used to sell cars. I used to make like 4 to 5,000 a month, but I got another job and I'm trying to like change my career path and just get more steady income.

>> I don't mind if it's not steady if you're making twice what you're making now.

Yeah, I didn't like it either.

>> Oh, okay. There's that. Um, >> yeah, that's the biggest thing.

>> So, have you kind of I mean, just listening to your situation and your story, you're 20 years old with a baby.

You live with her parents. You make $2,600 a month. And you apparently don't

read anything before you sign debt

because you've got some of the worst debt products on the planet. I mean, everything you had was north of 20%.

Like, do you like say, "Come over here.

I like getting screwed." I mean, you like signed up for everything possible.

That was horrible. How do you do that?

>> So, no. So, my credit cards that I got,

I paid the rent from my last apartment that I had with it once I lost my job cuz there was a job that I had lined up that I didn't get and that kind of messed me up. So, I just used my credit card to pay it. And then as far as the car, I told her not to do it because I was working at the car dealership and I was able to get her a better deal, but

it was it was a rough time.

>> Yeah. I mean, like, you guys need to figure out uh a different way of looking

at life so you don't sign up for anything ever that looks like this again

cuz you you're getting tattooed by everybody on the planet. I never saw anything like this. Is a mess. Okay. So, the bad news is you don't make a lot of money and you've got some debt. The good

news is $20,000 makes you debtree.

>> Yeah. >> Completely debtree. You need $20,000 and you have $8,800.

So, really >> $10,000 makes you debtree and you're only working 40 hours. So, you need to be working an additional 40 hours starting right now somewhere else in addition to what you have now. You need two more part-time jobs, and you need to pile up some money so you can get out of your mother-in-law's house. >> Yeah.

Make it a goal, Oscar, to make an extra two grand a month. whe whether it's Uber Eats, like whatever it is that you're just doing something.

everything except the car and leave $1,000 in your emergency fund. And I would list these debts smallest to largest. So the 1,200's gone, the the uh 2,000's gone, the 2,800's gone. I think the whole 3,000's gone. Right at it. I'm going to knock out all of those. and all you got left is the car and then $2,000 a month extra and you start throwing everything you can at that car, maybe $3,000 a month at that car and you'll be done in two or three, four or five months, five months max. But you need to

create some extra income until this Chipotle uh promotion comes along uh

because you guys don't make any money.

You're starving to death.

Okay. Yeah. >> And um and but yeah, you could clean this up with the money you have in the bank, everything but the car. And um and

then go get three extra jobs and work like a crazy man. But the two of you need to look at each other and go, "Okay, we have done our last stupid thing. We are not signing up for any more debt. We suck at picking out debt." I mean, 27% on a car. Good God. I mean,

really. And and and there we can't do

this. and survive.

We're going to live at your mother's the rest of our life if we do this. So, never again. And the next time I can't pay my rent, I just can't pay my rent. I

don't put it on a credit card. We have to work with a landlord instead of the credit card company. You choose your poison. I don't I don't We don't borrow money anymore, Oscar. You guys have You've stepped in every bear trap known to man. >> Yeah. And you guys are young, but honestly, I would sit down with her and look out in 5 years and say, "Hey, when we're 26 years old, >> where do we want to be?" >> Yeah. What's a what's a dream scenario?

What kind of career do I want to be in?

What kind of house or area of Orlando we want to live? Like start actually creating some of this like future thinking. And that sometimes does help when there's like a crisis right there in the present, right? We're like, "Nope, that's not getting us to where we want to be." And so it helps you stop.

But if you if you're still on the line, Oscar, uh we'll have Christian pick up and get you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. And there's an assessment in the back. And it's very helpful just to start thinking through what you want your career to be so that you can up your income long term uh throughout your life. >> Yeah.

keep making $4,000 a month until you find something making $5,000 a month

that you like. You don't just go, I don't like doing this. I'm going to quit and move in with my mother-in-law. Bad choices.

You keep working until you have something to move to. You don't you don't stop the income flow. And so, yeah, these are these are the mistakes you've made that have gotten you here.

And so, what you need to do is assess when I went broke all those years ago when I was 28, I had to look and say, "Okay, what were the stupid butt decisions I made?" And there were plenty of them that put me in this situation so I don't ever get back in this situation again. And that's all I'm telling you to do is the same thing I had to do. And and you can do it. You can do it.

But if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting, too.

That that's a good plan. So, wow.

>> Well, just a lot of credit cards and cut up all the credit cards tonight. You listed out three of them for us. Just get rid of them. Just say we're going to do something totally different with our [music] money. >> Yeah. We're going to be on debit cards and a budget on every dollar. Christian will get you a copy of Ken's book cuz I don't think you chose Chipotle because it was your dream.

>> However you say it, I apparently you don't even need to go there. I don't know. But um the uh I don't think you picked that place. I think you just fell

into that instead of going I always wanted to manage a restaurant. I don't think you said that out loud.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] Matt is in Fort Worth, Texas.

Hi, Matt. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I've been trying to help my mom get out of debt for past three years.

She wants to retire in three years, but I can't her gazelle intent.

>> Wait a minute. You're kind of breaking up. Can you get with where your phone is still and is working?

>> Try again. >> Yeah. Uh, I've been uh trying to help my mom get out of debt for three years and um she's retiring in three years as well or she wants to, but I can't get her to become Gazelle intense.

Okay. She's broke and staring down the barrel of retiring broke but won't fix

it. Why?

>> Um I I have no clue. I've asked and I've

prodded and I've tried to get her to to see how scary it could be um retiring

with nothing. But >> How old are you? >> Like I'm uh 25.

>> How old is she?

>> Uh turning 60 this year.

Well, she's not going to retire at 63 because she's not going to have any money. >> Yeah, she thinks uh she she has a pension plan, but that's that's I've already looked and I've been helping her with her finances and I don't see it working for her for covering all her expenses and still her debt. >> How much debt does she have?

>> Uh currently 40,000 total.

>> Okay. What's it in? uh 20,000 in student

loans, 16,000 in personal loans from

credit cards, and then 4,000 in a remaining credit card. >> Okay. Did she go to school? The student loans, was that hers, or was it a parent plus loan? >> Uh she was going to school, uh but she she didn't finish her last class and so these are just the remaining student loans, okay, >> from her own degree.

>> Okay. >> So, when you sit and say, "Mom, this is serious. If you don't fix this, you're going to be up a creek without a paddle. What does she say?

>> Uh she kind of laughs it off.

>> Yeah. >> Um and uh and and we've we've gone through the baby steps and and >> No, we haven't. You have.

>> She hasn't done anything except laugh.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. My wife and I we've done it. And and I tried using that as look at look

at what we've kind of been able to do. You could kind of live like this as well. But uh >> yeah, >> I don't know. It's not clicking.

>> Yeah, it's a hard reality when you realize you can't force people to do anything. >> You can't say the right thing well enough to get them to see this or that.

I mean, like there is a point in an adult's life that they have to make a decision on what they're going to do.

And she's telling you through her decision- making of what she's going to do. And so there's a part, Matt, that I hate to say it, I think you've done everything that you can possibly do.

>> Mom, I probably have one closing conversation. It's mom, I'm not going to bring this up again >> unless you bring it up. If you need some help, yeah, >> if you want some coaching, fine. I'm going to be giving you zero money when

you're old.

>> So, you probably should figure this out.

>> But I'm not going to beg you to do this stuff anymore. I I I want you to win

with money more than you want to win with money. And I'm through talking to you about this and you laughing when I do it. So, we're not going to talk about this subject anymore unless you call me and say, "Help me." And I will help you by teaching you. I will never help you by giving you money. Period. And then end it. Just drop it because you you're not making any progress. You're you're beating your head against a rock.

>> And she's not changing. She doesn't she doesn't want your advice. And so one of the things I figured out when I started doing this show years ago is I quit

answering questions that people didn't ask.

>> Yes. [laughter] >> You know, >> yes, I know. >> I quit coming into someone's life and presenting myself as the answer to your questions. >> Yeah. That you're not asking. >> If you ask a question, I'll help you. I I'm obligated then to answer your question. But I'm not going to just walk

up to somebody randomly in my life and go, "Hey, that's stupid." >> I know. >> But if you ask me, I'll tell you that's stupid. I love you enough to tell you the truth. >> And what's frustrating, Matt, is what you've experienced.

You and your wife at 25 of going through the baby steps and doing this and probably paying off debt and having an emergency fund and retirement and you're seeing the progress and you look over at someone you love like your mom and you're like, you could be doing this exact same thing. And so the motivation is totally understandable where you're coming from, but you have to understand the result is not you have no control over that at all. At all.

>> You can't make them do it. It's like, you know, I've got a friend that lost 100 pounds and his wife didn't >> and he he's frustrated with her and I'm like, dude, you know, that was you just a few years ago. Mhm. >> So, you decide you had to make the decision. You can't your your wife's not going to lose weight because you want her to. She's going to lose weight when she wants to. Nobody got you to lose weight until you wanted to. Same thing.

You got to make these choices. You can't. But he feels so much better and he feels his dignity coming back. He go, you know, his clothing fits all this kind of stuff. And he wants that for somebody that he loves. And he can't.

But you can't make somebody else do want something. You can only you can only present to them is what it's done for you. this is what's worked for me.

You've done that. And then I would I would have one closing conversation and say, "I'm not going to bring this up again." But also be forewarned, I will not be writing you checks because I've tried to help you and I'm not going to be writing you checks at any point in your life. It's not going to happen. So, you should figure this out.

This should scare you. Where you are is scary. And if it doesn't, I can't help you. If you want some coaching, some advice, I'll be happy to show you what we did.

I would be honored. I'd be excited to show you what we did, but I'm not going to bring it up again unless you do and just drop it.

would do. And then move on to the next thing. You can't, you know, the the

problem with most of us is we love somebody, we see them doing something that's hurtful to themselves, and we

want them to be healed more than they want to be healed. >> Yes. >> And we want them to have a quality spiritual walk more than they want to.

We want them to lose weight more than they want to. We want them to get out of debt more than they want to. We want and that's not unusual. That's most [clears throat] of us have had that experience. We want something for someone we love more than they want it.

>> And you just kind of have to stand back and go, "Dad [clears throat] gum, I just can't." >> Well, and it's a weird feeling, too.

This is always funny saying next to [laughter] you saying this, but Matt as a 25-year-old is doing better financially than his mom. And when you become an adult and you start to outpace your parents in any level of life, that is a weird feeling.

And so Matt, you're kind of grappling with this like I'm more of an adult.

>> I'm more I'm like the parent in this situation, right? Is how you're probably feeling. And that's a weird role reversal. And you don't have to do that.

But that's part of growing up too is seeing that and being like that feels so strange. But I feel like I've passed my parents in whatever the category is in life. And so that's part of adulthood too, Matt. Um with your mom, sadly.

Yeah, that's [clears throat] just part of the thing. So, um, >> and I was trying to think what category if I passed you in, Dave, then I think [laughter] >> I think I think you've raised better kids than I did.

>> It's an insult toward me. Unbelievable.

>> You're [clears throat] better at parenting than I was. >> No. [laughter] >> No. I laugh all the time though because sometimes my kids if they say something to me, I've used this line multiple times. Every parenting expert is probably like, "That's terrible." But I always am like, if I ever had said that to Pop and Mimi growing up, fill in the blank with my consequences.

>> It would not have gone well for my health. [laughter] >> I know you all >> old school parents >> get away. Yeah, they do. They we discipline, but also [laughter] y'all ran a tight ship growing up.

Probably tighter once than I do, but yeah, [laughter] it's so funny.

>> Oh, there's all kinds of ways you've passed us up, Rachel. It's okay. It's all good. >> I just You just gave me an underhand pitch. I couldn't resist. T-ball. That's good. >> So, yeah. The thing is when you're trying to convince someone in your life that you care about, all you can do is

not tell them what they're doing wrong.

Instead, just show them what you've done. >> And I can't tell you, you know, how how many way things you can do to fix your life, but I can say this is what I did and I feel this way now. I had this I I

had this experience. No one can take your experience away from you. So, just tell people your story. And in the marriage context, uh Dr. John Delaloney talks about this all the time. When you're trying to get your spouse on board, use I statements versus you.

Well, you're doing this, you're doing this. Yeah. So much about your story and what's going on inside of you is going to be the thing that's going to possibly move someone to a different action, but also it puts the self- responsibility on you and not that you're trying to implement [music] and change someone else cuz at the end of the day, you're not going to be able to.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

Jimmy is in Atlanta. Hi, Jimmy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Okay. Appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> I got something I want to run by. I just turned 65 about two weeks ago. Been self-employed most of my life.

Semi-retired for the last few. I own five houses that are paid for except for mine. It still has about $175,000 mortgage and four and a quarter. Uh we

have no debt to speak of. Uh we have income approximately 100 grand a year.

That doesn't include the rentals with the five houses. Two of the houses I've got to remodel completely and I've already remodeled two out of my pocket.

Uh total value of the properties are 2.2

and I have just under 400k in a money

market. And I've bought two houses. The

last two I've paid cash for and I've remodeled them out of my pocket. My question is your thoughts on these DSCR loans because I'm considered doing one of those and model the other two.

>> Yeah. Well, I wouldn't I I I don't teach people to borrow money. Um Jimmy, because I have found that the fastest way to wealth is to get out of debt and stay out of debt. And that's why you've worked so hard to be out of debt. Um and

so, uh you have 400k that you can do the

remodel with.

Yeah, but I've seen that dwindle down from about seven to four and I've got >> because you because you've been doing remodels.

>> Correct. >> And your net worth didn't go down. Your net worth went up because the value of the property went up because you remodeled it by more than the cost of the remodel.

>> Well, the last two houses are $400,000 houses. I paid 120 for one and 150 for the other. And I've got two more that I could possibly pick up, too. And that's why I was want to hang on to my cash.

Yeah. >> And use one of these. Remodel.

>> I'm not I'm not going to tell you to go into debt to buy real estate. I'm not going to tell you to go into debt for anything. I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate and 100% of it is paid for and we remodel 100% of it with cash or we don't do it. And even if you were going to go into debt, the DSCR

loan is not a good loan because it's a higher interest rate than a standard loan. >> Well, I've been quoted six and a half six and 3/4. >> Yeah. It's a higher interest rate than a standard loan. That's what I just said. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's not a it's not a good bargain. So, why are why are you wanting to pay a subprime rate to borrow

money when you have the cash in the bank to do the job? Absolutely not. I

wouldn't do that. I kind of think you're going to, but you ask me and I wouldn't do it. I would pay cash for the remodel or I'd dump one of these properties and take the cash out of that and move it around. If some of these properties are not fun and you would rather be in a different property, that's fine.

I've got a couple up for sale now. I'm going to do some 1031s on it, do some tax deferred exchanges on some of the properties we've got to resituate some of our portfolio of real estate. Uh you could do some of that, but um definitely not going to borrow money. Definitely not.

It's not like you don't have anything, right? I mean, it's not like it's okay.

Well, we have no money. You have money.

So, just pause on buying a new property

and use that to remodel and up the other ones or Yeah. or dump them or dump them and use that money to buy the other one.

So, I don't care. But, but I there's no way I would tell you to go into debt.

It's not going to bring your make your dreams come true. It's going to make your nightmares come alive. Lee is with

us in uh Leah is with us in Cincinnati.

Hi, Leah. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. So, my husband and I, we have six-year-old boy girl twins. And when they were born, I cut back and I

currently only work very part-time and he's the bread winner and we have term life insurance as you recommend for his salary. Um, but my little boy is

profoundly autistic.

So, he requires lifelong care.

If anything were to happen to me, should I also have a um life insurance policy

for the same amount that we have my husband's for? Because he would have to take on that caretaker role and he would no longer be able to do the work that he does.

>> Yes. All stay-at-home moms should have

that have do not create an income should have life insurance on them to replace

the duties that they have. yours is

accentuate accentuated um with the autism situation, but still

just the same. When Sharon had littles at home, when when Rachel was small, we had life insurance on Sharon because if something happens to Sharon, I got to bring Mary Poppins in so I can work

>> and I have to pay her. And so then you figure out what the actual marketplace value of a stay-at-home mom is because they do a lot. They tutor. They uh they they keep the home clean.

They they make supper. >> Laundry. >> They they laundry. They do all this stuff.

I mean, there's just a huge huge number of things. If you have to pay someone to do all of these things, you're going to find out that it's a, you know, it's a 40 or a $50,000 a year job. >> Would you have a special needs trust for him?

>> Yes. We have all of that. We've got everything taken care of. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We have the only We only have our mortgage. That's the only debt. We have everything. We have set up the 529s cuz I have two other children as well. Um, >> but my my life insurance policy is only $25,000.

>> You need 500 on you.

>> Okay. >> Or more. I mean, maybe more.

>> Yeah. 500 500. >> If you're healthy, Leah, and you're young. How old are you?

>> I'm 36. >> Yeah, it'll be it will be so inexpensive. I almost would get I mean >> Well, 500 would create a $50,000 income

stream. You're going to need more. that would allow him to hire Mary Poppins to come in and help. I think you're >> um but if you if you if you want to spend more than that or if you wanted to replace his income, then you would have that amount >> and have him not working outside the home at all. Um which is probably not

what's going to happen, but could be could be some. Yeah. You know, again, if

everybody if you're if you're not overweight and you don't smoke, term life insurance is unbelievably cheap.

>> Yeah. That's why I almost would just just for out of safety because it's not that much more expensive. >> Get in touch with Xander and price it out. Price out 500, price out a million >> and just go, "Okay, what do I want?" It's it's the cost of a pizza for you.

It really is. It's It's xanderins insurance.com. Just call them. And we've been advertising for them for years. And people people are blown away at how

little life insurance costs. Uh and and once you see how little it costs you, it's like why don't everybody have good life insurance to take care of their families if something happens to them.

Yeah. So yeah, you're you're very wise to ask that question. It's a very valid question. Um and by the way, it's works for anyone who's got a stay-at-home situation. yours has got an extra twist on it because of the extra challenges you guys have, but um but it it doesn't

invalidate the other ones either. So yeah, do do all of that, every bit of it. Very cool stuff. Very cool. Open phones here at825-5225.

Jessica is in Kansas City. Right quick,

Jessica, what's up?

Um, so I just filed my taxes for 2025

and we owe the IRS about seven grand.

Um, >> do you have seven grand?

>> We do not. And we also have a baby on the way. So, >> do you have any money?

>> Um, yes, but we're saving that for like

when I'm off work and not >> No, honey. You owe the IRS.

>> [clears throat] >> You don't get to choose between what you pay the IRS and then you figure out how

to not do that. That no way. You do not want them on you. The penalties and the interest you're getting ready to take on make you wish you'd done a payday lender. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

So, how much do you have saved for when you take time off?

>> Um about

uh 2400. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> It's about 120.

>> And why did you miss your taxes that far?

>> Um, they didn't

apparently I they went my job went off

the new tax table. I don't see that. I

could see like 3,000 being off, but not

that much. So, um, and I was just trusting that I was

getting enough taken out and I didn't

look at my pay stuff. >> Okay. Yeah. So, what I would do is pay whatever you have towards the uh towards the IRS and then I would pay the IRS off as fast as you possibly can and then very quickly I would start stacking up money for you to take some time off.

You make enough money to do all of that, but you're going to do nothing else. Don't talk to me about going out to eat. And don't talk to me about vacations. And don't talk to me about a $10,000 nursery for the new baby.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show [music] in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Abby is with us in

Oklahoma City. Hi, Abby. How are you?

better than I deserve. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I know that you say bankruptcy is

very, very bad, but I was wondering if there's any situations where it may be

the only way out. Um, I am 34. I'm a

single mom of two kids and I am over

$90,000 in debt and I bring in about

$64,000 a year working three jobs.

So, I feel like I'm drowning. And I've

been doing the baby steps for

like 6 months, but really like going

[clears throat] in deep with it seriously for about 3 months. And I just

don't see like a way out. And I found out recently when I went to try and get out of my car loan that I'm $17,000

upside down.

So, I just don't know what to do.

>> I'm sorry you're scared. Um >> I'm very scared. I have a 13-year-old and a one-year-old. >> Wow. >> And my one-year-old has very complex medical issues. So >> the um

how much do you owe on your car?

>> 37,000. >> Okay.

And so you bought a car that you can't afford and it has made this whole thing happen >> pretty much. Yeah. My car loan is $850 a month. >> Good God.

>> And what is the um rest of the debt? The

other 50,000.

So, I have 30,000 student loans, 13,000

medical, 6,500 to my grandma, um 2,200

in a payday loan when I was desperate, and I owe 2,300 to my lawyers

>> for what?

>> Uh child support for my baby.

>> Is he Is child support coming in?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. >> We're just still going back and forth because he owes me 26,000 in a rears.

Do you think you'll get that?

>> Yeah. >> You do? Okay. When will that come? Do you know? >> Um, anytime between the next 10 days and

if we have to go to trial over it, up to a year, [laughter] >> but I will 100% get it.

>> He has it. >> It's just Oh, he has it.

>> Okay. >> He just doesn't want to give it. He wants to be told he has to give it.

>> Okay. [laughter] Yeah. Well, we'll tell him. That's good. We can help him with that. Um, yeah. All

right. So, uh, you owe 37 on your car

and someone told you your car is worth 20. Like the dealer said that's what they would give you for it.

>> I went to 13 different dealerships and the highest I was quoted was 22.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, that's because they're all buying it at wholesale.

Dealers do not pay retail for a car.

They sell cars at retail, but they buy them at wholesale. And um so who do you

owe the 37,000 to?

>> Santander.

>> What is that?

>> It's a bank. Um >> a local bank.

>> No, it's uh one of those we'll finance

anybody deals. >> Yeah. So your interest rates 15%.

>> 16 and a half. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. All right. So, >> and I tried I had good credit when I got this loan, so I don't really know what happened. I I know what happened. You signed a loan that you shouldn't have signed. That's what happened. You screwed You allowed them to screw you.

>> Oh my gosh. You got You got taken to the

cleaners. >> I did. I My engine was dying on my other

car and I had a newborn baby and I went in and they saw a helpless person and

they got me. >> Yeah. Yep. They got you. They got you coming and going. Okay. So, um,

number one, the answer to your question is bankruptcy is not really your problem. Not going to solve your problems. Okay. >> Okay. >> Because the only way the car goes away

in bankruptcy is if the car goes away,

>> right? >> Okay. And the student loans are not bankruptable, >> right? >> Okay. So, that's the two of those things

are most of the debt. Oh, and by the way, you're not going to bankrupt your granny either.

No, speaking of by the time we had those three things together that you're not going to bankrupt on >> um or you know then you really haven't accomplished anything >> by filing bankruptcy because you're going to have to pay the student loans and grandmother and you're going to get the car repoed.

>> Um which you could do without bankruptcy. That's not a problem. Just quit paying it. They'll come get it. Um,

you know, >> so it's okay to let it repo >> but before you'd file bankruptcy cuz you're going to lose it in bankruptcy anyway, right?

>> Okay. I just didn't know if that was >> Have you just I don't want you to do that. That's not my suggestion. But before we file bankruptcy, my point is bankruptcy is not doing anything for you, >> right?

>> Because the car, the student loans, and grandma >> the other, you know, so you end up bankrupting on $2,000 worth of stuff or something here. That's silly. No, we're not going to do that. All right.

So, but let's try to let's try to get you out of this mess.

>> Mhm. >> You're not 17 in the hole, but you're probably 10. And I don't doubt What kind of car is it?

>> 24 Ford Edge.

>> Oh jeez. Okay.

Boy, did they get you. Um >> Mhm. >> sold you a piece of crap car on top of it. But anyway, um [laughter] >> at least it's not a Chevy. >> Oh, it's just awful. No, it's it there's a lot of Chevys that are better than that. >> Um anyway, the um yeah, so we need to get rid of the car. Let's try to figure out how we can sell it to an individual for 25,28 something like that. Then where are we going to come up with the 10 difference? Any ideas?

>> I'm praying that this check comes in.

>> Any ideas? Yeah, I've just been hanging

on to getting that payment. And

>> so if that comes in, you sell the car the next day and you write a check for the difference. >> Yep. And you free up almost $900 a month. >> Yeah. And that that takes care of that. And then you use some of the money to buy you a five or $6,000 car that you pay cash for.

>> Okay. >> And your student loans are on hardship deferral anyway. You're not paying them right now anyway, aren't right.

>> Um I've been paying like $50 a month on them. >> Yeah, I wouldn't. I'd let I' I'd call them up, put them on hardship deferral.

>> Let's just put them on hardship for for 6 months and let's work on some of this other stuff. >> So, but we need to the the primary thing

we got to do is figure out a way to get out of this car sooner rather than later. So, if it's going to be a year, I don't want you driving this car a year.

It's going to be a year before you get the child support money. So, if you're not going to get the child support money anytime soon, then we got to find $10,000. Any other places you can get it?

I mean, I could go into more debt with my grandmother.

I just don't want to. >> No, I don't want to do that. Any chance you could borrow $5,000 $10,000 from the credit union? >> No. >> You're credit when I lost my job when I

was 7 months pregnant and it I couldn't

get another one until recently and so I

used my entire savings, everything. And

so I my credit is now not great. [music] >> Okay, Abby, you're not bankrupt. I don't know how much pain you're going to be in with this car before you get out of it, but that's going to be the answer and that's the way through cuz the car is the problem. You hang on.

I'm going to have Christian pick up. I'm going to get you with one of our financial counselors, Ramsey trained counselors, as our gift. We're not going to charge you a dime. We're going to take care of you cuz you're by out there by yourself and you're alone and and it's really scary and we're going to help you.

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Ashley is in Dallas. Hi, Ashley. How are

you? >> I'm good. How are you doing? >> Good. How can we help?

>> So, my husband is a business owner and

when we got married, I signed a prenuptual agreement, you know, saying what's his is his and what's mine is mine. Um, since then, I've had our

daughter. I'm a stay-at-home mom and I

get told, you know, this is not mine.

Um, I don't have any say in the finances. I don't know how much money we're making or if we're making any at all.

And but I get asked to do paperwork to

do this for the business, do this and this, but I am not included in the said business.

>> What do you mean paperwork?

Like whenever something needs paid, it's

they put it on me like you need to call and pay these bills or you need to get this insurance updated or can you fix

this for the store? Like constantly I'm getting told to do work for free basically.

>> Okay. Well, you're obviously not okay with this situation. So, what has happened to make progress so that it's not this way anymore? I assume you've had a discussion with your husband like, "I'm not okay with this." >> Well, in the beginning, I didn't have anything to do with any of the stories at all. I wasn't helping with anything.

I just kind of stayed home with our daughter or not. At the time, we didn't have our daughter, but I just kind of stayed home when I was pregnant and when we had our daughter. But over time, I'm getting drugged into it. I'm being asked to do a lot of stuff. When I get asked, can I be

added into anything in the business so I have financial security for myself or if

I can know any of the details about the

bank accounts or anything like that? I'm told no, that this is not my business and it's

theirs and it's not mine.

>> Okay. Outside >> it's who's theirs?

>> My husband and his partner.

>> Oh, okay. Outside of the business, Ashley, do you have access to money at home?

>> Do you know what's sitting money to pay bills? Um, there is never money put in our personal checking account.

Everything they use money from the business checking account for everything which I do not have access to.

>> To pay your home bills, your husband is functioning out of the business account.

>> Yes.

>> Do you think something sketchy is going on? No, no. I I mean, it's a small business.

It's nothing big. They have a few locations for it. >> Your husband's kind of a jerk. Do you agree? >> Yes. >> Okay.

Probably work on that.

>> Yeah. Like when prenuptuals are involved, at what point, cuz I know when you yall say like when you get married, everything's supposed to be combined.

Um, at what point is a prenuptual in that like in a disagreement?

>> Um, well, here here's the thing. It has nothing to do with the prenuptual. A prenuptual, it dictates what happens at divorce. It

doesn't dictate what happens during the marriage.

>> Okay? >> It just says upon divorce, he gets his

business. You don't get it. That's all it says. Okay. But a prenuptual is not a

thing that says, "Okay, uh you are now a

uh a woman that's not allowed to ask any questions about her husband's business." That's not what a prenuptual does.

That's not how it functions.

Okay? So, the pre he had you do a prenuptual because he's a jerk, not

because he owns anything of substance.

>> Okay? And um and so he doesn't own

enough for this business is not that big a deal. It's not nearly as big a deal as he thinks he is.

>> Um he's you know so uh uh you know you

you don't have a prenuptual problem and you don't have a financial problem. You have a desperately bad marriage problem.

>> So should I leave? Because at this point it's getting very questionable because it's putting too much on my mental toll.

Yeah. No, I'm not telling you to leave.

I'm telling you to work on your marriage. But quit defining it as a prenuptual problem or he's got a control

problem at the office. No, he's got

problems and we need to be in marriage counseling working on him treating his wife and

child better.

>> Okay? >> Because number one, from a business perspective, I co we coach 10,000 small

businesses. We tell no, we tell every one of them, do not pay any personal bills out of your personal out of your business account ever. It's bad business. It's bad accounting.

Your your home electric bill is not deductible as a business expense. And so, you should not be paying it out of your business account. You take money from the business that's profitable home and you pay home bills with that. That's just good business practices.

So, he's not real good at business either.

>> No. >> Good. >> He just wants her to do some of the accounting. >> I know. I've just listened to too many podcasts. >> Yeah, I hear you. Well, that too many of ours. Yeah. >> No. Well, that too, but money being sent the Cayman's and Ashley's names on it and then the law comes after her. That's just what I didn't want. I went extreme for a second. But she seems clueless.

You seem clueless in what's going on because no, you have no information. So, I just want you signing stuff. >> Yes. >> Because they're telling you to >> like for instance, if you sign if if he's not filing his taxes properly and you sign the joint return, >> you're on the line. >> You're you just signed up for the tax problem. >> Yeah, we filed separately this tax season. >> Yeah. And the season before that?

>> Um before that we did not file together.

I don't think we've only >> How long have y'all been married?

>> We've only been married one year.

>> Okay. But we've been together three or four years. >> Well, Ashley, you have a tremendous marriage problem, hun. That's what you've got. And we're we're not able to work on that in this setting effectively. We're not able to help you with that, but we can just help you identify that. So, the the the situation

you have, you're not crazy. It's weird and it's wrong. I can tell you that just as a dad, just as a grandpa, >> as a husband, >> if you're my daughter, as a husband, I, you know, as a friend, I would tell you to go to a marriage counselor. You need to go see a pastor, see a marriage counselor. And I don't end I don't tell people to end marriages on this type of thing alone. But if this is the way you're going to be treated for the next 20 years, yeah, you shouldn't be there

if there's no change. I I would not I would not ask someone to be in an abusive toxic environment for 20 years.

Um and I'm not I'm not going to tell you to do that. And that's what this is. This is abusive toxic environment. So um

and you don't have to be a rocket s scientist to figure that out. You already knew that. But um what what I would do is say I'm going to a marriage counselor. Are you coming? Because I'm

considering ending this marriage. I'm not going to be treated this way anymore. So, and then go to a marriage counselor, even if he doesn't come, and get some coaching and have someone in that kind of a setting, not some not a couple people on a podcast telling you to leave your husband. We're not we we're not going to sign up for that responsibility. You should sit down with someone that guides you through this and gives him every chance to turn around

before you end this. And then you systematically bring it to an end at some point if there's zero change and zero hope that it's ever going to be any different. >> Yeah. Cuz the picture of health in exactly what you're explaining like we have friends and he does real estate deals and she helps and does the books but they pay you know like they they pay

a salary out of their company to them and she doesn't necessarily get it because they're keeping stuff in the business and all of it but like they're they see it as one. Like we are a we are a household and when we make money out of the business, it goes into the home and whether you choose to quote unquote get paid or not, it doesn't matter cuz you guys are bringing home an income together that you're both in on. You're both working out of the same account.

You're both doing this together. And so there's a healthy way to do everything you've just explained. You guys are just doing it completely backwards. And the way you're being treated is just horrific, Ashley, from what you've told us.

I hope a counselor can help God get a hold of his heart because the heart that he has right now and the way you it caused you to sign a prenup says, "I [music] like my business more than I like Ashley." That's what he's told you on the front end.

okay with that. And you aren't okay with it anymore either. So, [music] I wouldn't I wouldn't marry a guy who likes his business more than he likes me.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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Samantha is in Cincinnati. Hi, Samantha.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I have I have a boyfriend. Um, we

have a one-year-old and it's always when

I make more money, we'll save more money. But now he's making three times the income that he was. Um, and we're

still not saving. I mean, money burns a hole in his pocket. It's gone as soon as he gets it. >> So, I just don't know what to do or how to help.

>> Um, because I filed bankruptcy. Um, so

we we did not get married. Just I mean,

honestly, taxes, insurance, um, I get

state insurance for the kids. Um, and

then I know like they'll count his income towards the bankruptcy, so we were trying to pay that off before we considered it.

>> I'm sorry. You you you're in a bankruptcy now?

>> Yeah, I'm in a chapter 13 where I pay it back. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And how long have you been in the chapter 13?

>> Um, maybe like 6 months.

>> Okay. And how much money do you owe?

Um, I think it's like I think it went down to like 47,000 that I'm paying back. >> Mhm. Okay. And how much do you make?

>> So, I had a high-risisk pregnancy and took off work. Um, and I just actually started back. Um, >> how are you paying a bankruptcy?

>> Um, he's he he pays it. So, that's what

he didn't file bankruptcy. Make sure the

>> Yeah. So he gives me the money for it.

>> Oh, he gives you the money so you can pay it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um >> So why didn't you get married?

Cuz he's giving you the money for the bankruptcy anyway.

>> As if you were married. >> I think they're I think they're wor I think more so he's worried about them taking cuz they take it if you make over so much. Like you know they tell you if you make over like four grand. Not if he

doesn't file, only if you file.

>> You you you you're in a bankruptcy and you need to get out of the bankruptcy and get it paid off and he makes enough money to do that.

You shouldn't have been in bankruptcy to start with.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. You got bad advice

and you're he's looking for an excuse to not get tied into this. So you said kids. I thought you had one kid with him.

I do. I have one kid with him. I have and I have a kid prior.

>> Okay. >> And is that child with you full-time, Samantha? Both?

>> Yep, I have both full time. >> How old are they?

>> Um, 11 and one.

>> Okay. All right. Well um so the answer

to your the reason I'm asking all these questions is the answer to your question uh is that when you are married your husband and

the husband and wife join together and

they do life together and they clean up debts together and that that way they don't they don't have a reason to they don't have the freedom to blow the money because we have a mess to clean up and So right now he's acting like he's dating you not having children with you,

which is way different, >> right? >> I mean, if he, you know, if you said, "My boyfriend who I date, not who I have kids with, but a guy that I date is blowing some of his newfound income," I would say, "Well, you have a boyfriend. That's irresponsible. Oh, darn. But you don't have a boyfriend. Uh, you have a

husband and everything except legally,

>> right? Yeah.

But I'm nerv I feel nervous to get married because I >> Well, if he's not worth marrying, he's not worth living with and doing life with.

>> Yeah, I guess that's true >> cuz it's the same stinking thing. The only difference is you put a piece of paper in place and then we decided we're going to be two grown-ups that do life together.

But >> how would you recommend helping?

>> Yeah, I I would recommend that the two of you start seeing a couple a couple's counselor and make plans to get married and then make plans for the two of you to combine your finances and get your bankruptcy dismissed and clear those debts working together and raising these

two children together and build a beautiful life together over the next 10 years. But um right now there's this disconnect in his brain >> between his responsibilities

and his realities.

>> He's acting out. He took he got a huge raise and he goes and blows it all. He's acting like a single guy.

>> Dude ain't single anymore, honey.

>> Right. >> And he But >> the hard thing is there's no major leverage to pull because he's not married. You know what I mean? Like that. That's the messiness of >> And here's the problem. Here's the problem. The number of couples that do what y'all are trying to do that succeed financially and relationally is very close to zero. The data is in. The statistics on shacking up and playing house are horrendous.

It does not work. The number of people who become millionaires shacking up is almost zero.

It's almost zero. And not even the money piece, the relational piece, Samantha, you know, like it's just because there's no he doesn't he doesn't have to commit to anything. He could choose tomorrow to walk out and there's no legal relications >> except possibly some alimony. Yeah.

I mean, child support. >> Child support. Yeah. >> But um Yeah.

And you'd have to go after that in a weird way because it's not a divorce and not a breakup. So, I think the two of you need to sit down and go, "Okay, we've been acting like a couple of 16 year olds in heat and we're going to have to change that.

life where we are responsible to and for each other and to and for these children. >> And yeah, I was going to say and there's a part too of like we've created a human together. We're ne we don't have a choice on whether we're going to choose to be adults or not. We have a child in this world. So we made that decision.

>> Yeah. And so when we chose to do this, >> you go to 3x raise which you used to make your and your wife sits in bankruptcy.

That's these are not even things that should come out of someone's mouth. But it does because of the arrangement you all have allowed yourself to get into.

And so what I would advise you is to go see a couple a couple's counselor and start working through some of these issues and sometime in the next 30 days go see a judge or a pastor and get married and then let's let's put our finances together. Let's put our incomes together. Let's put our problems together and let's put our dreams together and and let's go live this life in a prosperous and fun, wealthy, healthy relational way and these children are going to grow up in a much better situation then and they're going to be much more functional.

>> Yeah. Unless he's just a horrible person.

>> That's right. Then we then you got to you got to call it Samantha. >> Then go the other way. >> Yes. Yes. >> But I I didn't hear that. All I heard is an irresponsible child. >> No, I know. I know. But >> she's got three kids.

>> Yeah. That's [snorts] what I heard. >> Yeah. >> So, but that bless your heart. I mean, it's it but that's what I would tell you to do. And so, I went places you didn't think you were going to go. You thought I was going to tell him how to straighten up and not overspend. But that the him not him overspending is a symptom of the situation you all put yourselves in with the choices you've made. And so that that's what I would tell you is to fix that because again

the data on millionaires the and 89% of

them nine out of 10 millionaires did not become millionaires because of inheritance which means they did it and so you study how they live what their habits are what their processes are if you want to be one of them okay and one of the things that keeps coming up over and over and over again is we saw almost zero I mean there was less than 4% were not married and we're living with someone they weren't married to. They're all married. And 84% of them that are

married, that some of them were single, but 84% of them that were married said, "I have a cooperative, aligned, goal setting spouse that I

works with me, not against me." And that's how we got here. >> Yep. We didn't get here by dragging a princess or dragging an irresponsible 16-year-old little boy along the way against [music] his will. We didn't get to millionaire doing that. And so there's this the data is in on this.

It's ridiculous. The net worth of a per

of a single lady that's shacked up as compared to the net worth of a lady that's married at 35 years old is 13

times less.

That's the data.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. And if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, here's a quick, easy way to do it. Go to our website, ramseysolutions.com, and click on ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is

our free AI tool that's built and trained by proven Ramsey principles.

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And so, if AI is researching everything in the entire web, it's got a bunch of junk in it. But if AI has only been fed

the diet that you want it to eat, it's going to spit back out what you have fed it. And so all of the last three years

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>> I want to add a little sarcasm to it, but I >> You probably could say answer this like Dave would. And I bet it would. >> I bet it probably get in your face then. Yeah.

Probably bust on you. Love you. Well, yeah. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com.

It's completely free.

Ramseyolutions.com. You're going to love this tool by the way. It's very popular.

A lot of people using it. All right.

Jason is in Atlanta. Jason, how are you?

>> Great. How are y'all? >> Better than we deserve. Sir, how can we help?

>> Oh, about eight months ago, me and my wife decided we wanted her to be a stay-at-home mom. And that's about the same time that we heard about the baby steps and started listening to your podcast. And so far, we paid off about 53,000 in debt. Good. About 8,000. Way

to go. the baby step, too.

But my wife's a teacher, and when she

quits in May, they're telling us that we can take her retirement out with no penalty because she's no longer an employee. But, you know, we also can't put any money back into her retirement.

>> That's not true. >> Figure out if we want to take >> No, no, no. Stop. Stop. That's not true.

You misunderstood what they said or they were just an error. One of the two. You cannot take your retirement out with no penalty. You can take your retirement out without them withholding. But the

IRS has a penalty.

>> Okay. Yeah. Just paying taxes on it.

>> Yeah. And 10% penalty.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Taxes and 10%. So, no. No, we're not going to do that. How much has she got in her retirement?

>> Um, probably 10,000.

>> Oh, not much. Okay. Well, basically, if you cash that money out and use it, it's it's going to hit you about 40%.

30% tax bracket plus a 10% penalty. So it's kind of like borrowing $10,000 at 40% interest.

>> Oh wow. >> Yeah. Wouldn't recommend it. >> So we we should just move that to my

retirement. >> No, I'll just move it to an IRA with a Smart Vtor Pro. Get on Ramsey Solutions and find a Smart Invester Pro in your area and roll it. Anytime you leave a company, we tell you to roll your retirement into an IRA so you can control it and pick the and pick some good mutual funds. So, you have 8,000 left and you've already paid off 53 and you've got until May to finish up.

>> Yes, sir. >> Way to go, man. You've done so good.

>> Well done, y'all. >> What do you make?

>> Um 170. >> Oh, okay. So, you guys can live on your income and finish up the 8,000, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Good. Good. Way to go, man. What do you do for a living?

>> Um I'm a lineman.

>> Oh, wow. Good for you.

>> Excellent career. Excellent. Okay, cool.

And so you're how many babies have you got?

>> Um we got two along the way.

>> All right. So you're going to be home with three babies.

>> Very cool. Well, and she's been a teacher, but she now wants to be home with the babies. That's awesome, man.

>> Yes, sir. >> And you're bringing home the bacon as a lineman, and so y'all can afford to do that. And you cleaned up the 53 grand.

Great job.

>> Proud of you, man. Go get them, Hero.

Yeah. Just knock the eight grand out and roll the 10,000 over into an IRA. We don't want to we don't want to give the government half of it just cuz it's a small amount. I still if it's 100,000 you'd really never do it, but at 10,000 you're like, well, whatever. But it's still 4,000 bucks you're giving up for no apparent reason. So, no, I I would roll that. And um >> just let it grow >> into an IRA and let it grow. Very, very good question. And and again, congratulations. I'm proud of you.

Tanya's in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Tanya. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hey, guys. I'm great. What's

up? >> Hey. So, um I am a mother of three and I

have a faith-driven entre I am a faith-driven entrepreneur and I have a business that's a baby. So, she's only about 2 years old. I am a concier therapist and I am trying to figure out

my question is is how do I continue to

grow my business successfully

with also trying to get out of debt personally? I feel like I'm using my business money a little too much for our personal debt.

>> Hour. You're married.

>> Yes, sir. >> And what is his income?

>> So, he works for the government and he makes approximately about 70,000 a year.

>> Cool. And what are you making profit on your concier therapy business?

>> So, last year was my second year and profit was was approximately around 34,000.

Not so much. Okay. Where and and so is this like a concier medical where you're getting a annual or a monthly fee. Uh

and then you're just like on call as their therapist.

>> Yes. So what I do is I do fitness and wellness. So I go to people's homes. So I don't have the brick and mortar. So I don't have a lot of overhead.

>> Um so I >> That's the concier part. That's the concier part. Okay.

>> Okay. So yes. >> All right. And um so where are you getting your clients?

um word of mouth. I do a lot of networking. Like I network all the time.

I have been doing my best to grind. Like I said, I want to be the doer of what God's given me. >> Yeah. And that's awesome. And um

so how would having more money expand that part of the business? How would the

business grow if you had more money in the business? Because you're not spending money, you're spending hustle.

>> Yes. My goal is to eventually get a

brickandmortar So, I would love to grow the business financially so that eventually I can get a brick and mortar. >> Yeah. But my my you asked if I'm taking all the money out of the business to pay debt, I feel like I'm not growing the business. But you're not growing the business with any money cost. You're growing the business with your sweat.

>> Oh, yeah. That's true.

So, you're not starving the business growth due to the money coming out to pay debts at home, but you're just not making much. I mean, 34,000, you're not, you know, you're not making any money yet. >> You need to be making three times that to start being to justify being a therapist, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, I assume you're licensed.

>> Yes, I am licensed, but I don't I do private pay. I don't take >> Yeah, I understand. But you and I know marriage counselors that make $150,000 a year.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And so that's my point.

You you know, if you you have a unique take on this and I love the nuance of it. I think it's cool. >> Tanya, is there cuz you said you have three kids. Do you do you have the time to have more clients and that's your problem is that you're not getting more clients?

>> Yes, that's exactly. I do have the time, but >> Yes. Okay. Okay. Um, and how much debt

do you guys have at home?

So, we did have we have a home that we

about two grand. I think we we owe about 210 on that. And we did actually just take a heliloc out to pay off to consolidate the debt for my student loans because the interest rates were extremely high and I felt like every year I was just paying off interest and I wasn't able to actually pay off the student loans. >> Uh we did combine a few of our credit cards. Okay. Um, >> and what you've discovered now is you can't borrow your way out of debt. So,

>> Ouch. Yeah. So, you're going to have to earn your way out. And so, this is you're going to if you're going to create more income, you're going to have to arrange your life in such a way that it allows for that. And uh and and so I

would love for you to be booked up enough that you're making 100,000 instead of 34. And then you're not calling me cuz you're you're you're starting to plow through this debt then that's been consolidated. uh you're starting to see a way through it, but you know, so what you're dealing with is you got three kids and $103,000 income and a pile of debt and you're underutilized in terms of uh what you

could be making in the marketplace, >> but because there's not much overhead, I'm okay with that 34 saying, "Okay, all my job, all my work is going to go for us to pay this and then his is going to go to debt." Like, you know what I mean? Like you can kind of slice it that way.

>> She needs to be making 100. >> She needs to be making more. Yeah. But she said she feels like it's all going to the debt and the expenses, but that's okay because you're at least paying off debt. >> Exactly. >> Which is helping. >> Exactly. It's not costing you business.

Other things are [music]

[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Michael is [clears throat] in Little Rock. Hi, Michael. How are you?

>> Good. How are y'all doing? It's a pleasure to speak with you all. >> You, too, sir. How can we help?

So, I am a 24year-old father of one.

I've got a fiance that's a stay-at-home mom. When I was born, I was born with some disabilities due to a medical and I actually sued said company that caused these issues, you would say. And that settlement pays out in two months. And

I'm really lost on where to start. It's about $400,000 total that I will be getting.

>> Wow. And I I I think my main question is

should I immediately clear any debt and

use my income to build wealth?

>> The data tells us that that's the most sure way to build wealth. The downside of that is the guy in your mirror. You

have to follow through.

So, if you blow the I mean, if you pay off all the debt and you don't >> take care of your income and use it to build wealth, then you're going to have just blown the money, right?

>> Yes, you're very true. Well, then can I ask you how much debt do [clears throat] you have? >> 100,000. >> Oh, debt is roughly 70,000 and that's

between cars and medical bills only.

Okay. >> Um, I don't do the whole credit card schemes. I think that's all just a scam.

>> Okay. So, when are you getting married?

We haven't set a date in stone yet um

due to this trustee payout. Um

>> why what's the trustee payout have to do with getting married?

>> Um I'm not really sure honestly. It kind of comes to do we want to spend money on a wedding? Um do we just want to alope? I want to alope. My wife wants well my fiance wants to have a wedding. So we're kind of stuck between the two.

>> Yeah. You're having a wedding.

That that's what everyone's been saying.

She's at the end of the day, but >> you lose. So, how much are we going to spend on the wedding?

>> Um, I didn't want to spend over 8,500.

>> Okay. What is the nature of your disability?

>> I was born with bilateral club feet at

birth and I've had over 32 surgeries on

my legs. I've >> How you doing now? Um, it's it's a struggle. PP twice a week.

Um, exercise, but it's definitely something that >> What do you do for work, Michael?

>> I'm a lot manager for a car dealership, so my job's pretty laid-back.

>> Okay. So, what do you make?

>> I make $1850 an hour and I don't make

less than 45 hours a week.

>> Okay. And you're able to live on that

>> in a way. Yes. Comfortably no.

>> Right. So, what's your long-term career plan?

>> I am very big on wanting to start

investments. Um, I'm not sure where to start with that. I've looked into mutual funds. >> That's not a career plan. That's investing. What's your career plan?

I think my career plan is to stay in a dealership life, potentially in a finance role.

>> Okay. So, I want you to start moving towards something that doubles or triples your income on purpose. And I

don't know what that is exactly. Um, dealership life is fine. I have no issue with that at all. There's a lot of money in the car business and a lot of people make a good living, a great living in the car business. Um, so but I want you

to start thinking about, okay, what's the 32y old version of you look like?

Because you got a 10year-old and a wife at that point, >> right? Yes, sir. >> And 1850 ain't going to cut it.

>> And my fear is that you think this 400,000 you invest in, you're just going to live off of it the rest of your life. And that just wouldn't be good for you, Michael. Just >> what I want to do is create and it don't it's not enough. What I want to do is create a life where you don't need this money and then the money will explode and do fabulously for you, but create a life

where you don't need this money. And that involves getting married and spending uh I think you're going to spend 20,000 on your wedding, not 8,500.

>> Oh god, don't say that. >> Um no, that that's way less than the average, by the way. But maybe maybe 15.

I don't care. But you two put together a budget between 10 and 20 that you can both agree to and set that money aside out of this money. You pay off the rest of your debt out of this money. And I want you to also think about is there a class or a certification I need to take to move towards what I need to become to be a great dad, a great husband at 31 years old that makes a lot more than $1850 an hour.

>> Okay, >> awesome. I for another would you immediately max out your Roth account if you were handed $400,000 today?

>> Yes. And I would immediately pay off all those debts and I would immediately set aside 15,000 or so for a wedding and then I would build a life that doesn't need this money other than that and just let the money grow. So, and sit down

with a smart vester pro and learn about mutual fund investing. But mutual fund investing is not a career and 300,000 will not produce enough for you guys to live on.

So it's it sounds like a lot of money because you've never had that much money, but it's not going to create enough money for you to get the life I want you to have.

>> Not yet. It will in 10 or 15 years. So

if we can leave 300 of the 400 alone, which is about what it sounds like we're going to be doing. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. If we leave 300 of the 400 alone and put that in investing, including a Roth IRA and some good mutual funds, in seven years that'll be

600. In 14 years, it'll be a million,

too. And so, when you're 35 years old,

you'll have a million dollars in that account if you keep your stinking hands off of it because you build a life without the money. >> You build an income, a career track without the money that feeds your family. And then you let this thing do let this money go over here and cook. So money is not microwavable, but it it is does really good in the crockpot.

And so that that's what we're setting up here is let it leave it alone. Let it cook. And but if you if you keep screwing around and buying cars you can't afford and putting them on hard, but you just buy them.

>> Yeah. Well, you pay cash for whatever car you buy. >> If he takes that 300 and starts going on vacation, buying cars and living on it, it'll be gone. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And and it won't have doubled if you take the interest off of it. If you take the income off of it, you don't let the let it alone. Pretend like you don't have this money and it will set your life up and your children's life up and your grandchildren's life up.

>> But you're going to have to leave it alone and go have a life of your own and build out the career side of things. So hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of Finding the Work You're Wired to Do by Ken Coleman. It's got a great career assessment in it to get you to thinking and you and your fiance get the wedding planned and get married.

you have babies, get married, and start your life off. Do the do the stuff that the data tells us is going to cause you to succeed. >> And Michael, go sit down with the Smart Buster Pro.

boring mutual fund or an index fund or something, but like look, make sure what you're putting that money into is boring, has a good track record, and again, just setting it aside. Don't talk to someone who's like, "Oh, you can invest in this business over here and do this and that and that. and I'll lo I'll make sure you lose all of it by >> put it in something boring with a great track record and leave it alone. I'm telling you that's going to be your best that's going to be your best bet.

And then you get to look up at 50.

>> Then you get to make some great decisions. But don't let 24y old Michael do that now. Just wait.

>> And you're very wise to ask this question. And you got a whole lot more of an answer than you were looking for.

>> [laughter]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay

trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> Cassandra is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hey, Cassandra. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Um, [music] my husband and I are finally combining our finances and there's a couple

>> there's a couple charges that we're not quite sure where to put them in our budget. Um, >> and my initial thought was to put them straight into what would be our personal funds, but I'm unsure if that's good and I want to set a strong foundation for the future. >> Good for you. >> Um, so I'd love your opinion on that.

>> Thank you for phrasing that that way. Um the uh what are the charge what what is

the category?

>> So the categories are um like a subscription to a deodorant company

um an alcohol budget for my husband. For

me, um, I set aside a little bit of money a month to go out with my mentor or my co-workers or my boss for drinks or for coffee or something to, you know, kind of be there with my co-workers and build relationships. Um,

and essentially >> you could you could just have an individual line item for each one of those things and just call them what they are. That's fine. And we are

agreeing to the deodorant budget. We are agreeing to the mentor budget and coffee budget. we are agreeing that that you know you're we're allocating this much uh for uh you to have a cocktail after

work or whatever it is that he's doing and um we're agreeing to that and and do it very individually. Um and or you

could do what you're talking about and that is just increase your personal by that much and you just take care of that

within your personal. He could in his quote uh his fund money and you could in your fund money, right? Either one's fine. Here's what's interesting. Here's what we did as an example at our house that ended up being weird.

>> Um, >> we originally

separated food and restaurants. And I

recommend that when you start when you start budgeting. Yeah. Groceries and restaurants >> because otherwise you'll go to the restaurant and eat your groceries.

>> Yeah. >> And you want to make money for the grocery store. Okay. So, we separated them initially. After doing it for several years, we got disciplined enough that we were able to just call it food and forget it. But when we first started, we needed the individual details. >> We still keep it separate. >> You do? Okay, that's good.

>> Yeah. Nothing wrong with that. >> That's what I was going to say. And then we have Cassandra, I don't know if y'all have other subscriptions. We have a subscription line item in our budget that like Disney Plus, Amazon Prime, >> that's not deodorant. >> Well, it's a subscription. >> I know, but I mean, >> I would count it as a subtion.

[laughter] It's just an Amazon button. I mean, that's Yeah, I mean, that's almost that's almost in like food.

>> That helps me justify not putting too much in my personal I try to avoid to spend allocated.

>> The point is it might be a good exercise to just make them line items. Yeah.

>> For the first year >> and then over time >> you'll go, okay, I get comfortable with just melding them all together. So we what we have ended up doing is we have we used to have a bazillion line items and ours are now very broad buckets.

>> Okay. >> Because but I've been doing it 35 years.

Okay. So you know it's different, right?

But when we first started, we needed the like the the emotional shock of looking

down and seeing my [clears throat] mentor coffees cost that much or his

drink his his after his happy hour cost that much, >> you know, and he needs to see that and go, "Yeah, and you need to see that." And and it's good for everybody to get all that. So I I would run it out as just individual line items, and you can do that in every dollar. You can add customized line items very easily

>> just because just for visibility >> and and it's just kind of a reminder. I spend that on alcohol. I spend that on deodorant, you know, and it's just that's okay if you do that. I'm not griping at you about any of that.

>> I but I think the the line item is just like staring you down every month and going making you make a value choice. Is that really what how I want to live? Is that really who I want to be? And then and you might decide I'm spending too much or I'm not spending enough on that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then if you feel comfortable with it, then I would probably lump anytime we go out to a restaurant, even if it is for co-workers or if he goes out with friends for lunch or whatever, we just dump everything into the restaurant category. Like if we go out to a restaurant, that's where it is regardless of reason.

>> And then I'd probably move Yeah. a deodorant subscription to your personal line item. That's what you're choosing.

Later on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's probably where I would go. But if but for the first Yeah. a couple months, six months as maybe the first year >> as detailed as you can be. I think it is just a good rhythm to be in to be able to see those charges and just see okay that is that's the transaction for that.

>> It kind of folks for those of you thinking about this because we're talking to all of you out there not just her. Um the it it kind of falls in the

same place in your brain that doing the budget at all when you wrote down everything you're like holy crud.

>> Yeah. Yeah. you [clears throat] know, and so that's the that's the thing you want to have happen. You'll feel like you got a raise when you do a detailed monthly budget before the month begins and you tell every dollar what to do before the month begins. You always feel like you got a raise because you always have this experience of we spend what?

>> Yep. And we don't have to do that. We can lower that category. >> That's ridicul. And you also have the experience of where's all this money going? >> I mean, the chaos and the disorganization in our life is eating half our salary. Mhm. >> And so you have that experience and and the shock effect of that starts to modify your behavior where now you're controlling your life and your money instead of your life and your money controlling you. And this is a what

she's talking about is a brilliant question because it's um not only did she phrase it properly, I want to lay the right foundation, but she's recognizing that I'm setting new grooves in my brain. I'm setting new rhythms in my thinking >> and my and the way my behavior is acting acting out in this and and I so I want to be careful how I do that. That was her our her indirect comment but it was a great comment. So really good question Cassandra.

Thank you for doing that. I appreciate you calling. Rose is in Phoenix. Hi Rose.

>> I'm fine Dave and Rachel. I appreciate you listening to me and answering my questions. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Okay. Well, just quick scenario. I'm 72.

My sister whom I live with is 70. We

share our property together. Uh she has

uh my sister has owned this property.

She's the one who initially bought it like 30 years ago. I have moved on to this property and been here for about the last 10 11 years. Um,

uh, I mentioned to her at the beginning of the year that, uh, this year that I was thinking about paying off half of the mortgage because I've been saving and saving. I've been listening to you for several years, Dave, and you guys, I appreciate you so much. Um, but basically, she got mad at me for doing

that. Um, and claiming that I did it

behind her back. Um, um, she also had

the flu about last month. Sometimes she was sick for three weeks. She's self-employed. I'm retired. I do get my social security and I do get a pay.

>> The house is in your in both of your names. >> Correct. Yes. Cuz we >> So why did she not want you to pay off Why did she not want you to pay off >> half the mortgage?

>> She claims that I paid the mortgage off.

This is in early February, the first 2nd through the 5th. uh while she was sick with the flu and that I took advantage, she says, of her being ill and doing this without consulting with her. And I

said to her, "Well, Teresa, you're my sister, but you're not my parent. You're not a spouse, and you're not my boss." >> Does it harm her in some way? >> Or you to I'm sorry.

>> Is it going to harm her in some way?

>> No. My gosh, Rachel, we um uh we we went

from $237,35.

>> Yeah. >> Down to we're now down Well, we both paid our half of the mortgage uh February the 1st, of course, excuse me, March the 1st. And so with that payment, um which our monthly payment is $1,5104

a month. So we split that in half. So now our mortgage is down to come April 1st, our current mortgage payment or total is00.

I don't understand why she's mad. How is she hurt? How did you >> Well, she's mad because well, okay, I forgot to make that point. Uh she uh when she talked with me the other day about this, uh she said now me paying off half the mortgage is screwing up her

getting a trust placed on our entire

property. Now she can only do half of a trust. Is there such a thing as half a trust? This is And I said to her, "Is that what your attorney told you?" >> No, there's no such thing as a trust on a property that you don't own all of.

She can't put this property in trust.

She doesn't own it all. Even if there was a mortgage or not a mortgage, doesn't screw it up at all. So, she's got bad information and she's mad about

something she doesn't even understand.

No reason to be mad. But it is weird.

You're continuing to pay the payment when you don't owe your half anymore.

Hello.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

>> [music] >> If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by following the Ramsey plan and Every Dollar will guide you right through that. More than just a budgeting app, the plan is built into Every Dollar. You

can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. It'll help you free up more money, and work the plan faster, which means you're going to get out of debt, build wealth faster, be aligned with your spouse faster, which

means you're going to get out of debt and build wealth faster. You see how this is working now, right? Start Every Dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Donnie is in

Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Donnie. How are you? >> Good. How's it going, Dave? >> Better better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so, uh, my question is I, uh, I started a side hustle about 13 months ago with my son. Um, basically a Tik Tok shop. Uh, it's done pretty well in my opinion. I'm kind of thinking about leaving my job. My wife's saying, "Hey, go all in. Do this full-time." Um, sounds crazy to me uh, to, like I said, leave my my career uh, to do a Tik Tok shop, but curious. >> What is a Tik Tok shop?

So Tik Tok is I'm sure you've heard of the app. So you go there, but I don't know what a Tik Tok shop is.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. So it's a marketplace um on Tik Tok where we go live and we sell things to other individuals. We sell >> Okay.

I got you. Okay. So selling things on eBay or selling things on Facebook marketplace or selling things on Tik Tok. I got you.

Okay. And what are you selling? >> We're selling sports cards. So we we do live selling.

So we'll open the cards for people. They buy them and then we open them on the on the screen for everybody and everyone is excited. We hit a big card. >> Gotcha.

Okay.

>> So last year was our first year really hitting it hard. We did it every night.

About $200,000 and 60 of that I gave to my son.

>> Profit.

>> Profit. Yes. Profit. And in overall revenue was over 700,000.

>> Okay. So you had 500,000 invested in the cards.

um and and other things. Yeah, we we could probably be a little more efficient this year. It was our first time. We didn't really know what we were doing, so we had to buy things a couple times. Didn't really know exactly, but yeah, mostly cars. The cards are very expensive. >> But you're Yeah, you're buying them and sell I mean, you're buying them for 500 and selling them for 700 and profiting 200. So, your cost of goods sold was 500k. Does that sound right?

>> Roughly. Yes. Roughly, roughly.

>> And what do you make at your day job?

>> Uh about a 100,000.

>> Okay. So, you made twice as much

um at this as net profit as you did at

your day job.

>> Correct. >> And you did it at night, but I'm guessing at night is when you do this, right? >> Well, there's people on there doing this all day long. And um >> Yeah, but I'm thinking prime time is prime time.

>> Well, it is, but at the same time, >> that's old school. [laughter] >> It It is. It really is because when I see them all during the day, they're doing just as well during the day. I see people doing, you know, having six or seven of these guys streaming at at a time all day long.

Um, but I was with you. Prime time seems like like night time, but it seems like when I go in the mornings, um, on the weekends is also prime time. >> Okay. All right.

I I I don't know.

Okay. Um, >> what kind of job do you have? What's your career?

>> So, I work in finance. [snorts] >> Okay. >> Well, that's pretty vague. What do you do? Um, so I do uh I work for a military contractor company. We just we do uh we DoD work during the day.

>> Okay, >> cool. >> So how hard would it be to replace that if Tik Tok folds up?

>> Um I mean I wouldn't think very hard. I I was a blue collar worker in my former life. So if I needed to go back to work and do something I think I could probably do pretty much anything and get a job. Um so >> Okay. Uh I would do it

>> really. Yeah, definitely.

>> Okay. Well, >> you you have a year track record. There's no reason to think it's not projected into the future reasonably.

>> I think you'll make 300 or 400, not 200.

>> Um, >> but with the caveat always with the social media world, as you know, Donnie, I'm like, it just it's ever changing. AI is changing everything. It's just just knowing that this may not it may be long term. I pray it is for you. >> No, it won't be. This will not be around in 5 years.

>> You understand? You don't you this will sunset. And so be watching for the next

way that people are selling stuff. Okay,

this is a very cutting edge early

adopter process that a small percentage

of the population is participating in uh and even knows about for that matter overall. Okay. Now, it's not it's not like a mainstream thing like you you you walk into a a 57y old or 67 year old

grandmother, she's not going to even know what you're talking about, right?

And so it's not mainstream. And because

it's technology and social media based,

100% chance it's going to change dramatically >> between now and 5 years. So be looking for the next way to do something similar

or just close the thing up when it's

done. Don't don't don't be looking up and going, "Oh, well, what happened to my business?" Well, it changed. You can 100%. Because I mean, think about five years ago, nobody could spell Tik Tok.

>> Yep.

>> And and you know, and it was it feels

like 20 minutes ago, the internet wasn't even real.

>> Very true. >> And so it's not it's just some cost. But

do it. >> Yeah. But if I had based the things that we do at Ramsey on a single platform, we

would be out of business.

>> Makes sense. And and we're trying to pivot to other avenues. um whatnot is reached out to us, eBay Live. It just matter um I don't have the time to to do it unless I leave my main job.

>> I would be I would be investigating eBay Live. I'd be investigating anybody that's doing something similar where you're on multiple platforms accomplishing the same kind of tasks.

>> Okay? And that way you're not married to one platform and when it has an issue.

>> Um you know like there was a moment in

time that Tik Tok was completely in jeopardy of shutting down all the way like the US government shut it down.

Right. And so you know you don't want that to happen and be standing on one leg. >> Exactly. Yep. Nope. 100%. So yeah, if as long as you keep that kind of a mindset in your business acumen, then yeah, go make three or 400k for the next two years while you're discovering the next thing to do.

>> Okay? >> And and bank all of it. Don't spend it.

>> And and that's that's what I've been trying to do with uh just put it all all to the side. That that was my my other caveat is do I pay off my house or do I keep just loading up the bank account?

>> Yeah, that's very cool, Donnie. It's very interesting. Good for you. He goes from bluecollar to finance at the DoD to

tick tock entrepreneur. [laughter] This guy's flexible. >> It's good. >> He's flexible, man. He's able to do just about anything. So, yeah, that's the good thing. Yeah. And so, yeah, you don't ever want to base your career or business idea on something that probably has a fairly short shelf life without having a plan for moving on to the next thing. And but man, what a what a great cool. I'm glad you're making so much money. That's awesomeness. Very neat.

Chris is in Ron Oak. Hi, Chris. How are you? >> I'm good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, we've ended up uh unfortunately in

baby step seven and now we have 529 accounts that we don't really need.

We're able to cash flow the college and we're debating what to do with >> Don't cash flow the college. Use the 529s.

>> And then if we want to do additional investing for the kids, we should just do that on the side.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if the but use the 529s for college, it gets some money out of there. That is cash flowing it. And then use the cash that you were going to use for college to do if you want to build an account to the side, just an utma, uniform transfer to minor act, which is simply a mutual fund in the kids' name. And then they can buy houses and weddings and stuff with that without having any issues with the 529. But don't cash flow college and trap 529 money.

>> Well, I've I've asked the kids about it.

They're both in college now. Uh, one of them was interested in leaving the 529 intact to use it to pay for his kids' college, and I didn't know how good an idea that would be. >> No, I wouldn't do that.

>> And then the other one wanted to uh we talked about putting half of it in a a uh a Roth IRA and putting the other half just in a brokerage account. They're both, you know, they're not minors. Uh they're they're college students now >> and we could certainly pull out the same amount equal to their tuition and then just use that for >> for anything really. I suppose.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But that's using it. I mean, so I mean, we get the money out of the 529 is the answer to your question. And then how whatever you guys want to choose to do with that money and how you >> there's lef over, he can use the rest for the kids or >> But I would rather have a pile of cash for your son's kids in mutual funds

that's not in a 529, then have it in a 529 cuz I don't know what 20 years is going to do to 529s.

Oh,

[music]

When I talk to people on the Ramsay show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar budget app. Every Dollars you

tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up

extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket.

So don't keep living normal. Go download

the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our

[music]

[music] scripture of the day, Luke 14:28.

Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you sit down first and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? Mitch Album said, "One half of knowing what you want is knowing what you must give up before you get it." Oh, there it is. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If private student loans are in

default and it's knocked you off track, this is how you reset. Why refi works with borrowers and that other lenders won't work with, helping you refinance defaulted private student loans with low fixed rates so you can get back on the plan and move forward. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Joe in Pennsylvania.

I lease a new car every 3 to four years because I'm retired and I don't want to deal with brakes or tires or any other maintenance issues. I'm not hurting for money and can afford to pay cash for a new car if I wanted to own one, but I don't. So, what's your opinion on having a lease in my situation instead of a paidoff car?

>> Uh, a lease is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle mathematically.

period, you're getting screwed. And so

if you simply don't you want to buy you want to keep a new enough car that you never have to buy a set of tires or buy a set of brakes, then you're just going to be trading cars every time that you need to do that every 3 to four years and pay cash for your cars. That's going to be the least expensive way to do this because the lease is capitalized on MSRP, meaning those stupid payments that you're paying are based on the full sticker of the car. But if you walk in and buy a brand new car, and I'm assuming you have a million dollars or more and could afford to do that, and you're going to walk in and buy a brand new car, you can buy them at invoice or 500 over invoice or 1,500 over invoice if it's a premium vehicle.

you got money to throw away is what you're saying. And you're throwing a lot of it away. just being it's just being wasteful. >> Yeah.

>> At that point. But >> yeah, but it's if you've got, you know, if you got $10 million, I don't know. We don't know your net worth or your income. You just said you got plenty of money and we have to take your word for that.

I'm not sure I believe you. But anyway, uh because usually people that have plenty of money don't think this way.

think this way. But anyways, no, don't

lease it. If you got $10 million and you want to waste some money, so you never buy brakes or tires, >> um, then buy a new car every so often and pay cash for it >> and you'll get a better deal. Do what? >> I said, that's just so funny to me.

Like the brakes and tires thing. It'd be one thing if like, hey, I'm a car person and I love new cars and my thing is cars and I just want to buy a new one every four years and drive something new, >> but I don't want to deal with the maintenance. A part of me is like, I don't think that's the truth. I don't know.

Like that's that's just like a funny I'd rather him be like, I just like carves.

It's >> true. >> Just not. It's not. It's not. >> Well, if you're that wealthy, you just have someone to go and take your car in.

>> And do it for you. >> Hello. [laughter] Just call call my guy. Yeah. All right.

John is in Reno. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call.

It's a real pleasure. Um, longtime listener, first- time caller. Um, I'm looking for some Papa Dave advice on if a prenup makes sense for my situation. Um, maybe I give you a little bit of background.

I'm 28 years old. Um, I've been dating the fiance that I love to death for 5 years now and we got engaged last year and we have a wedding scheduled for next summer um, in June. >> Awesome. >> And yeah.

Yeah, definitely awesome. Um there's I know on like previous calls that you've said that there's a uh it only seems to make sense if there's a significant gap and the past times I've heard when you guys are discussing it it's usually like someone has a million dollars another person has $100,000. So my situation is I have 230,000 of the net worth and she doesn't have she has zero no debt.

>> no you don't need a prenup.

>> Okay. She's worth she's worth a quarter million.

>> Okay. I think >> she's been hanging around five years.

[laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Um and then Yeah, I I think the reason outside of like that gap like I was contemplating

like the idea that like I like that we would both know like the terms of if we were to like end the marriage if something bad like that was to happen.

>> Well, you do know the terms. The the laws have set them in place. Typically, the judge is going to split the baby in half. >> Oh my gosh, what a horrible example.

>> It's from the Bible. It's from Solomon.

Okay, [laughter] >> look it up. All right. Anyway, the um Oh my gosh, it's an old Rachel. You're okay. You're okay. Calm down.

>> I know. I just feels very you're going to turn whatever whatever net worth you guys have grown together in your life together is going to be split down the middle. That's the terms typically.

Okay. >> With rare exceptions. With rare exceptions. >> Okay. >> And and your 230 is not enough to to tip the scales that much. Uh [snorts] she may out earn you through the next 10 years. And so, you know, that could come up that way, too. So, no, I I I wouldn't

in this case. I I I I want you to fight for working together. Fight for alignment. fight for shared goals and vision and serving each other and having

a wonderful marriage and never worrying about whether we have to uh split this

down the middle again. Okay. So,

>> okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> All right. Good question. All right.

Rachel, do you know you don't know the Bible story? >> Well, apparently not. It feels very Moses. >> So, well, Solomon, the wisest man. He

wrote he was sitting in judgment and a lady brought her baby up and two women were fighting about which child it was and he said we'll just cut the baby in half. >> Oh and whichever one the mom said. Okay.

Yeah. >> And whichever one the mother was.

>> That feels like an old >> agreed agreed and said and and so the saying is split the baby. That's where it comes from. No one no one literally

splits a baby right there. >> I know. I know. But it's just such a just a just a sad [laughter]

>> I don't know. Oh my gosh. [laughter]

>> There's no show like when Rachel >> I don't like it. I don't like it.

>> Paul's in Philadelphia. Hey Paul >> Solomon.

>> Hey Dave and Rachel. How's it going?

>> Great. We're short on time. Go straight to your question. Boss, >> we'll make it easy. So uh mom died last year at 55. I'm 28. Um, she left about

half a million dollar in debt. That's 30k business debt, $200,000 mortgage,

uh, $180,000 in medical debt from a heart attack, >> 50,000 in personal debt. Uh, the B, well, she also left the business. Uh, the business is a home care business, non-medical, you know, not nurses or anything, just caregivers coming in to take care of grandma.

>> Business makes about 800,000 a year. Uh 47% I wish. No, 47% gross profit.

>> Um >> what's the net profit? >> Yeah, it's not nets under 50K.

>> Oh, it's not worth screwing with. Okay,

>> you're you're going through a million dollars to get to 50K. Oh my god, what a horrible thing.

>> All right, >> I know. Can you sell it >> from the business I'm in? That's that.

Yeah, that's the question. Do I sell it now? Yes. You know, walk away.

>> Yes.

[laughter] if somebody will buy it.

>> And here's the thing. Here's the thing.

You're not liable for her debts. Her

estate is liable for her debts. And if her estate does not have a positive net worth, her debts are not going to get paid.

So, she didn't leave you $180,000 in debt. >> She left that in her estate. Now, if the business brings a million dollars, then you got to pay off her debts out of the million dollars before you get anything.

So, what you own stands good for what you owe when you die. Assets minus liabilities is your net worth. You do not inherit debt.

>> Did you know that? >> So, even with the business Yeah. I mean, well, I think >> if the business has a positive if the business has a positive value, >> then yeah, you're going to have to use that value to first clear up her debts, which would include her medical bills.

Okay. But if it does not have a positive value, you are not personally responsible.

>> Yeah. Right. I got that.

>> Okay. >> But you think it's a smart thing to >> get out of it? You don't want it. You wouldn't You wouldn't go out and buy that business. You have any idea what you can get for it?

>> Uh probably 4 to 500,000.

>> Good. And that'll clear off that'll clear up all of our debts, right?

>> Yep. That's uh that's the plan.

>> Yeah, that's exactly what I'd do. I got rid of two headaches, creditors, and a business I didn't want that doesn't make any money. This is all happening for me.

I like it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 86. If You Don’t Stand for Something, Your Money Will Fall for Anything | August 28, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. The phone number here is88255225.

[Music] Ger is with us in Canada. Hyrie, how are you?

>> Hey, good morning. I'm doing well, thanks. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I appreciate you taking my call.

First time caller. I'm honored to talk to you. So, my my question is more of a

like a principal question rather than financial. So, um I'll give you some context after, but my question is um should I accept my girlfriend's extremely generous offer of paying off

for me? >> No. >> Okay, that's I might say that. Um I I'm very

hesitant. She made the offer uh about a

week ago and I've been sitting on it.

So, >> you don't pay off you don't pay off dating relationships debt. You You do that when you're when you're married. When you get married?

Well, that's the thing. So, we're we're both divorced and we um since the first

time since my divorce, I have actually considered getting married again. I thought I never would get married again.

And the thing is, we we're in a longdistance relationship. I'm in Canada. She's in Switzerland. And part of the reason to pay off the debt is so I can afford to save up for trips to see each other back and forth.

>> We can't um >> What's your job like? block is I'm I'm trying to pay um off these debts, right?

But I'm I'm currently on track to um try

and clear these before uh next summer.

So before the beginning of next summer, that's my that's my goal. >> How much is it?

>> Uh it's about 35,000.

>> What do you make, sir? >> Okay. What do I make? Uh approximately 85,000 gross.

>> And so what's it take to fly to Switzerland?

How much money does it take to buy an airline ticket from where you are to Switzerland?

>> Uh 1,600 approximately.

>> Okay. So, tell her to buy an airline ticket and come to Canada and visit.

>> Yeah. She's done that a couple times.

>> Okay. >> And already. So, we we >> want to increase the you want to increase the frequency of the trips >> by her paying off your debt. No, thank you. >> Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't m it doesn't match up. What she's saying is I'd rather pay $35,000

than 1,600 for to go to Canada. That doesn't make sense mathematically or logically.

>> Fair enough. Okay. I guess so. So that I can also go there back and forth and just be a little more fair about it instead of >> Well, you don't really have the money to do that.

I think if you set up the conversation and say, "Okay, we both agree that it's important for this debt to be gone. However, how we do it is where we differ. I think it's my responsibility to pay off my debt. We're not married.

I don't want to put you in that situation. So, what I need from you is to support me in the best way possible, which your support for me would be if you could come visit me while I'm busy paying off this debt and putting my income towards that.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. That's kind of that's what I was originally thinking and I just didn't know if I should.

Yeah. You're going to change the tune of the relationship.

>> You're going to change the whole thing if she pays you off your debt.

>> Yeah. >> You ever you know the old joke? You know you know the old joke if you loan your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, is it worth the money, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Because what happens when you loan people money is it changes the relationship. Mhm.

>> You you know now she's looking at you as like and you're going I feel like I'm

didn't own you know all this other stuff now enters into the equation rather than I'm a dude over here doing my thing girl over there doing her thing. Yep. >> We be talking. That's that's way different than uh you got into my wallet. >> Uhhuh. You already have distance working against you. You definitely don't need borrowed money working against you.

>> Yeah. or, you know, just any kind of feigned obligation. I mean, what happens if she pays that off and then this relationship goes sideways? Oh, now what are we going to do? >> Then she calls us on the air and goes, "I was so dumb. I paid off this guy's debt over in Canada." And we're like, "Yeah, you were." >> Yeah. >> That'll be the call right here.

>> That is like I know I know we're talking to Garg, but I'm like I want to talk to the girlfriend cuz I need to make her understand this is a bad move to even offer. >> Yeah. Do so folks, do not pay debts for

people you're not married to. Do not um

buy houses and cars

>> for or with people you're not married to. Crap happens and you're going to get sideways and you're going to have a problem. The worst one I can ever remember was a guy bought a house with his girlfriend. They're going to shack up >> and he gets killed in a car wreck and now she owns a there's no will.

She now owns the house with her future mother-in-law. >> Lord, >> she's now a partner. >> Oh my gosh. >> His she's not his heir.

They're not married. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, the his half of that house goes to his mother. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Who she didn't like. Of course. >> Of course. >> And and now this is great.

Now I have a partnership. This is the crap you don't think of when you think, "Oh, we're just going to play house and really be instead of really being like grown-ups and get married." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

So, >> I remember a guy called in. Yeah. He had a girlfriend. He co-signed on the car with her 17 18,000.

They broke up >> and she got the car. >> Well, she stopped paying it. And he called in. He said, "Hey, I've got a mountain of debt.

She's not paying the loan. How do I get out of it?" I said, "Is she going to refinance it over and put it in her name?" He said, "No." I said, "Well, you better add it to your debt snowball then. >> You better get better get rid of that car." >> Oh my gosh. Yeah.

>> Yep. That's the problem. So, that's the kind of stuff we run into these days.

And um it's the um unintended

consequences, not thinking things all the way through. >> The old there's an old book out 100 years ago by Dr. Steven Cvy called the seven habits of highly effective people.

>> Yeah. >> And one of the habits is begin with the end in mind. >> Smart. >> Yeah.

So begin with everything possibly falling apart that could fall apart in mind >> and you'll go, "Oh, I would never do that." >> Well, yeah. That's opposite of what you want to do cuz when you're excited about something, you like to visualize all the ways that it works out and you know, >> there's only one way it works and if it's all work and it never works that way. >> That's right. >> Nothing ever works the way it's supposed to ever.

Exactly.

changes and then there you are right >> caught. >> But that's not being that's not being a Debbie Downer and it's not being uh you know a pessimistic. That's just being logical. >> We're not dream killers. We're nightmare killers. Because your your little dream is going to be a nightmare and we're going to kill it before we can let it grow. Kill it now. Stomp that thing.

>> Yeah. Nip it in the bud. That's right.

Yeah. So, I'm I'm happy to kill your nightmare. >> You just don't see it as a nightmare. You see it as a dream. But I'll help you with that. And so, cuz I we love you and we want you to win. We want you to prosper. We're thinking about the good version of you 10 years from now that has survived all of life's bumps and bruises and prospered anyway.

>> And that's how successful people actually do it. They fail forward.

That's right. >> They they don't make a set of assumptions that things are always going to work out the way they are.

>> So, there's about 90 ways this could go wrong and only one way it goes right.

So, we don't do it. >> Most I'm going to go out on a limb and say most success is a result of something that was learned, not a bright

idea that was executed the right way the first time. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the number of times we've launched a product at Ramsey that the prototype ever sees the light of day is precisely zero. what we think is going to work doesn't make it through beta, >> right? >> It doesn't make it through alpha. It doesn't make it through any of those Greek letters because it is a delta. And so there you go. Uh yeah, you look that one up. Anyway, open phones here at8 8255225

[Music]

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

>> So much, George. I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info. >> Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. >> You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in fishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

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[Music]

Steve is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Steve. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you doing, Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my wife is pregnant with baby number two. >> Yay.

Yes, we are shocked and very excited.

Um, we have about $30,000 in debt and

we're moving for a job in the coming spring. How should I handle debt payoff

and preparing for baby?

>> When's baby due?

>> Uh, end of April, beginning of May.

>> Yeah. >> You're moving before a baby comes in the

ninth month of a pregnancy.

>> It's a little less than ideal. Yes.

>> Sounds like suicide, my man.

>> Why? Why ape? Why are you moving at that date? What's the What's driving the date to be crazy?

>> That's um when we agreed with my employer about making the move would be in the spring before that we found out we were pregnant.

>> Okay. Uh so you're being transferred with the same company, >> correct? >> Okay. Have you said anything to them about possibly coming a month later or a

two months earlier?

>> We haven't. I've spoke with my wife about that and she said that she would prefer to be moved before the baby comes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Than two months earlier. I don't want to move in the ninth month.

>> Okay. >> That's just um I mean a lot of stress.

I've I mean I my wife Sharon's had three

children and I can't imagine asking her to move our home in the ninth month of a pregnancy. >> It's tough enough to do it. It's tough enough to do it >> two months after a child's born.

>> I did that. It's tough.

>> Yeah. And so that's just a bad It's just a bad plan. But anyway, we're going to move in the spring sometime. So your st your question still stands now that I got into your business. But um >> you called and asked, so there you go.

But the uh anyway, but the the uh so and

what what's your household income again?

>> I make around a hundred,000. Uh I work

about 45 hours a week and I have unlimited available I have unlimited overtime available. >> Okay. >> Okay. Do you have any money saved? I know you said you have 30k in debt, but I'm just asking.

>> We have Yeah, we have baby step one done and we've been working on paying off the debt. I guess one thing that would be important to make of note is the debt is solar panels. So, it's kind of tied to the house that we would sell.

>> That's your only debt.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. Well, the number one in general terms, what we tell folks to do when you know you're in a storm, and I got a baby on the ways of being in a storm, uh, is to push pause on your baby

steps and just stack cash. So, even if

we weren't talking about moving, even if we weren't talking about all the other things, we would just generally say, "Let's see how high a stack of cash we can build." As much as we would have put on the debt, which is a lot, the same intensity, >> we're going to stack cash with. And then if health insurance covers what it's supposed to, >> which is most everything, >> and if um >> you know, and if everything goes well, baby and mama come home, everything's okay. The day they come home, we push play again, which means we would empty out this account that we haven't used, >> but was there just in case.

We empty it out down to $1,000.

mathematically that way. In your case,

what you're going to have is a stack of cash. You sell your house, solar panels

are cleared, you have no debt, you make the move, your stack of cash becomes your emergency fund. You go to the new place and rent and you start saving towards a down payment. >> Mhm.

>> Okay. >> That's what we were thinking. So that >> Oh, how much equity have you got in your house? >> I was going to ask.

>> I think when we sell the home, so we bought a fixer upper and we've pretty much completely redone everything. I think we stand to make about 50k minimum in equity >> above the solar panels.

>> Above No, that would be not including the solar panels. But if we take the solar panels out, I think it'd be about 25K. That's on the low end, though.

>> Okay. And if you stack 25K, then you and

you say or let's call that your emergency fund. Whatever you stack, if you call that your emergency fund, because you don't end up having to use it after the move, >> then um you've got 25K to put as a down payment on the other side >> if you if that works. >> Okay. And I'm going a step deeper. I don't know when you plan on putting your house on the market, but just having that cash there. Also, I'm thinking two things. Moving in general is so expensive. So you're moving from Pennsylvania to where?

>> Uh South Carolina. >> Yeah. So just keeping in mind like start pricing that out now because when we moved from South Florida here to Tennessee, the boxes alone, the boxes,

the U-Haul truck, are you going to get one of the pods? Are you going to all that stuff if your uh stipen doesn't cover it? Like that's if if you're even getting a stipen, I don't know. But just price that out because there's a lot going on there that has the potential to creep up on you. >> Yeah, it can turn into a serious chunk of money. >> 100%. Dave, I was shook when I saw the cost to have someone drive your stuff

midway across the country >> boxes. >> $20,000 >> that we're throwing away. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah.

It's a It's pretty serious. So, yeah, that that's uh be ready for all of that.

Plan that out. plan the move out and try to plan uh to where you're not moving

with a 3 month or three-day old child or

>> uh or or a child that's getting ready to come in the next 3 days.

>> Uh those are that's just a the worst possible scenario from a family standpoint. >> It really is. It really is. >> The further back you can dial it uh one way or the other, the outside the ninth month, either after the baby's born or before she said she wants to move before. So, let's talk about, you know, talk about February. >> Yeah. Can't hurt to ask. >> Yeah. Can't hurt to ask. >> It It probably doesn't make that much difference to them anyway. So, yeah, I'm going to ask for sure. Good question.

Denise is in New Jersey. Hi, Denise. How are you?

>> I'm good, thank you.

>> How can I help?

>> Yes. Um, so I just received a personal injury settlement of 200,000.

Um, and I know you don't like municipal bonds, but I'm hoping you tell me in my case it's okay to do. I already have

CDs, 450,000 in CDs. I have mutual

funds, 230,000.

I have savings and checking. I have um

every I have no debt. Um, so I I don't

need to shelter the 200,000 because it will be tax-free on a personal injury,

but I really don't want any more interest.

>> I I don't understand.

You You don't want the money to grow?

>> You don't want compound interest?

>> Well, it's going to put me in another tax bracket.

>> So what? There's not a 100% tax bracket.

So I, you know, Dave, I want to make $2,000 instead of $40,000

because of the tax bracket. That's not logical, Denise. >> No.

>> Okay. So, you think annuities then would be >> No.

How old are you?

>> 78.

>> Oh, okay. All right.

So, you've got all kinds of people in your ear, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> So, I don't know what to do with the money. I mean, and Morris D's

I I don't think I can add it to my IRA.

>> No, you can't. Um,

>> all right. So, you you are uh someone that risk terrifies you, doesn't it?

Well, not so much at my age. No, I mean I I really I think I have enough for,

you know, to take care of myself. Um,

>> yeah. Okay.

>> Without >> Well, I mean, if I put Okay, I'm 65, so

I'm a little bit younger than you, but not much. And if I put uh $250,000

in a high yield savings account or CDs and I make 3% on it and instead I could have put it in a mutual fund and made 13%.

That means I missed out on $25,000 a year worth of income, which is what you've done with the CDs and what you're getting ready to do with these bonds. So you need to decide if you are willing to put more money in mutual funds or not. And I would sit down with a smart resttor pro at ramseysolutions.com and start to learn about the market and how the market's performing and what's going on and get comfortable with it. Um, I personally,

you know, would take the 250,000 that's in CDs and I would put it in mutual funds and I'd put this 200,000 in mutual funds. But I want you to get comfortable with it before you go do that. But no, I'm not dumbing it down to m to municipal bonds. And no, I'm not going to tell you I would do that because I wouldn't do that. That would be a lie.

[Music]

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[Music]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities, either Jade or George or Rachel. Jade, when's your next one? >> Oh, that is TBD.

>> Ah, okay, >> Dave. but it will be there when they need it. >> All right, we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars, usually up around $10,000 of margin using every dollar so you get out of debt, start building wealth, and you get to ask questions during the live Q&A. So, sign up for

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Did I mention it's free? Tam is in North

Carolina. Hi, Tam. How are you?

Hello. Thank you very much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> I'm getting ready to go back to work and I would like to know how do I save money when I go back when my husband does not want to save. So quick backstory we've done to Dave Ramsey. We came out of debt and in 2021 he says he no longer wants

to do that and he wants to live for the

day. And since then, we are in this re

cycle of constantly being credit card debt of 20 to $30,000.

I'm current stay-at-home mom, but I'm

going to go back to work. And I told my husband, well, when I go back to work, I want us to save for a future. So, I just want to know how do I do that?

>> You go get marriage counseling.

>> Yeah. What sparked it? What sparked him to about face?

Something caused that

>> I don't know because we um before we got

married he was $100,000 in debt. We dated. I told him I can't be in debt. I introduced him to the X Randy. We got out of debt. Then he put us back into debt for a car and then we got out of debt for that. >> Yeah. I can't I can't help you, honey.

There's nothing we can tell you that's going to work.

Nothing will work until you guys fix your marriage.

You can't make enough at your new job to offset his stupidity and immaturity.

You're you're going to retire. You're going to retire broke. Get ready to enjoy dog food.

Alpo Alpo is your choice for dinner.

>> That's why I was thinking when I went back to work. >> You can't out earn his craziness.

Gotcha. >> You can't make enough to do it. So you you don't have a savings vehicle issue.

You have a broken marriage issue.

>> Gotcha. >> Yeah. You guys have got to work on that.

And if you if you don't if you ignore that and and you think I I'll just go get a job and save my money, he's going to go in debt further than any amount you can possibly save because there's no off button for this guy the way he's operating right now. >> Yeah. And you guys were never, it sounds like you were never aligned when you paid off the first 100,000. It sounds like his motivation was, I got this girl, I'm going to impress her.

We've just gotten married, right? What even though your why may have been something different and it may have seemed as though you were aligned, but clear you clearly you were not.

And it can't be about today. It has to be about where you see yourselves in x amount of years. >> Yeah. And honestly, I mean, I'm not being mean or anything, but his behavior pattern is one of someone who's going to be broke. >> Uhuh. >> When people say, "Thank God it's Friday.

Oh god, it's Monday." And that's their whole planning vision >> is make it to make it to the weekend like they're freaking Huey Lewis or something or whatever. Whoever sang that song >> working for the weekend. Yeah. Is that Mike and the boys? I don't know. Okay.

>> I've done this before, hadn't I? >> Yeah. >> I get I always get criticized my lack of music knowledge. >> I knew what you were talking about. >> Yeah. Anyway, you're going to be broke if you if your whole time planning horizon is trying to get to the weekend

so I can smoke and drink and I just that's all I want to do. I just want to live in the moment. That that means you're four years old emotionally.

>> Yeah. >> And uh you're not going to ever build wealth and you're not going to build a quality successful anything because no one does anything of high quality in 5 days.

So you have to have a longer planning window for that, a bigger vision for your life, uh for your money, for your

health, for I mean this is that's the same thing that leads to extreme obesity. >> Mhm. >> Because there's why not why wouldn't I eat everything in sight?

>> Because I'm I'm living for the moment and in the moment that donut tastes good and in the moment I'm going to have six desserts and four bottles of wine. I mean and then wonder why I'm 600 lb.

It's the same thing. It's the same thing. I mean there's just no off button when you're that im impulsive and immature and there all the data points tell us it's a very sad person a lot of anxiety there's a lot of depression around that >> because there's no vision >> and you know the Bible talks about it says where there is no vision >> the people perish >> now think about that perish what's that mean roadkill baby perish die don't win

>> that that's what that means and so you know in any area of your life for your marriage, your kids. I mean, think about if you taught your kids that way. I, you know, I I, you know, I'm going to live I'm going to do the easy thing with the kids. >> Well, what you raise is animals.

>> Yeah. >> That will drive you bananas because they have no discipline because they have no discipline. >> Yeah. >> And so, but but that's all thinking in the moment that what's easy right now?

>> I want the easy button. I want the easy button. You got to think about what you're planting because whatever you plant later on, that's what you're going to reap the harvest of. >> That's so sad. It's an awful way to live. And it's such a it's it's such an indication of a lack of maturity, lack of hope. And so that's the stuff you got to work on, Tam. It's not um it it's you

know, there's no amount of I mean, if you go make $200,000 a year and you save all of it, he'll he'll spend 300.

>> Mhm. >> Because he knows his wife's over there stacking cash. So, he's going to be really he's going to have Hey, I need two boats, you know? I mean, really. So,

this this is Austin is in Oregon, if I

push the right button. Anyway, Austin, there you are, is in Oregon. Hey, Austin, how are you?

>> I'm doing wonderful, Dave. How are you guys doing today? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> So, my wife and I, we're uh three months

married right now. >> Congratulations. >> And one Thank you. Yes. And uh one of

the things that we decided to do when we first got married was to do uh your guys' baby step program. So we just finished step one. We got $1,000 set aside right now and we're about to just attack baby step two. Uh we have about $10,000 in debt and annually we bring in

uh household income of around 95,000.

>> Oh, great. Um, so we want to get this we want to get

that debt free as fast as possible.

>> Agreed. >> So I'm I'm thinking of picking up a second job doing a a few hours um after

my normal job every day uh just to get that extra income just to throw out all that debt.

>> Um my wife, she's 100% bored on this and

everything. She's thinking about picking up some shifts at her local fire department. We both volunteer down there. And one of the things that she brought up, and I didn't necessarily have an answer for, but I I 100% agree with her, is

>> she wants to make sure that we still have time for us during this entire um

step. >> She'll budget it.

>> Yeah, but it's 10,000. It's not going to last long enough to matter.

>> You be you ought to be done in a couple months. >> Yeah, that's my hot take.

If you had said, uh, we have 70,000.

Yeah. Then I would say, okay, yeah, this is months and months, uh, ahead of you of, yeah, burning the candle at both ends. But for 10,000, you're going to be done in two months, 3 months, >> right, >> with doing all the things you said.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You can hold your breath for two months.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, really, it's not it's not like we're doing two years here or something.

>> So, but the other thing is this. The other thing is this. Anytime you're doing anything, you're out of balance.

Okay? If you have a brand new baby in the house later, you're gonna be out of balance because this kid is a demanding little piece of flesh >> when they're brand new. Okay? They want your attention all the time.

They are peeing or pooping or crying cuz they're hungry all the time. And so you're you're out of balance. You you're probably not doing some other stuff like you should cuz you're taking care of this baby right now. You're getting out of debt.

You're out of balance for a short period of time. Jay just ran a half marathon. You're out of balance for a short period of time cuz you're training in the mornings rather than doing something else. So, you're always out of balance.

So, just choose you're out of balance.

look at human beings in the eyes.

>> That's right. >> And then all of a sudden, oh well, we did spend time together. Who knew?

>> That's right. >> Netflix is not time together.

Okay. Scrolling, doom scrolling is not time together.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Thank you very much for all the help.

Mike's in Dallas. Hey, Mike. How are you? >> I'm doing well, Dave. Blessed. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Hey, uh just had a couple quick questions for you. Um me and my fiance,

we're getting married here. Um and we've combined finances.

Um we've got about $177,000

in debt and we net um before taxes about

$200,000 a year.

>> Good for you. What do you all do for a living? Um, so I work in construction and she's

a uh program manager for a um for a

wireless company. >> Excellent. So what's the 177 in debt?

>> Um we've got student loans about uh

$75,000 on her end, 20,000 on my end. Um

we've got about $9,000 in credit card

debt and then we the rest is two car payments that we've got. Um,

obviously the the credit card debt is kind of the biggest. >> You got two $30,000 cars.

>> Yes, sir. >> Jeez. >> Wow. >> All right. And uh so when are you getting married?

>> Um Friday. >> Oh, wow. >> Okay. Wow. >> Okay. Here it comes. >> This must really be weighing on you for you to call two days before a wedding.

>> Wow. So, how can we help?

Um, I'm just kind of wanted to see what y'all think, um, would be best to kind

of put our money towards paying down first. Um, >> we we've got about $5,000 in savings.

Um, we've got 401ks and stock options as

well. >> U, so, >> um, I think we kind of want to hold on to just the stock option side of things.

We don't >> stock options >> in the stocks about $100,000.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> Is that in a retirement plan? It's not, is it? >> No, sir. It's not in a retirement plan. >> It's not restricted at all.

>> No, sir. Listen, >> if you cash that out, you got 100K.

>> Yes, sir. >> Who's is that?

>> Would have to pay taxes on the back end.

About 20 about 20K that's mine and 80K

is hers. >> Yeah. So we would the way we teach is through a series of baby steps. Are you familiar with it at all?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So then you know the first part of this is you go down to $1,000 and

anything above that goes towards the debt. >> That's not retirement. >> That's not retirement. And in your case >> that's 100 grand. >> Yeah. That's a lot. >> I'm using that to clear this debt up. I mean >> because otherwise you effectively are borrowing on student loans to buy stock options. >> Exactly. >> Right. and I'm not doing that.

>> Now, I asked about the money because uh

we didn't go into how aligned you guys are on this. Uh obviously, you've started combining finances, but this whole idea of the baby steps and really what it takes to walk this plan to be successful with it. When you go back to your fiance, who will be your wife, you know, come Monday and say, "Here's what I want to do." How is she going to react to that? And do we need to talk about that? No, she uh she supports

um you know, we're we we try to follow the the Bible as best we can and she knows that uh I'm wrapping my head around this, trying to get us on a on a right path towards starting a family and buying a home. >> Cool. Um, and so she's >> so Mike, what I what I figured out many many years ago and is the basis for our teaching is the shortest distance between where you are now and wealth is

to be completely debtree because your most powerful wealth buildinging tool is your income. And so do anything that I

can use to clear that up, I'm going to use to clear that up because then I got $200,000 to work with to build wealth with. So temporarily, we're going to put 401ks on hold. We're going to liquidate anything that's not retirement, including those stock options, including the five four of the five grand. Now, this is after you get back from the honeymoon. Okay? We're not doing it between now and Friday. Okay?

But when you get back from the honeymoon and and so basically, I've got 100,000 now. I got 77,000 in debt.

>> I'd be looking at these two cars. >> And I'm going to be listing the debts smallest to largest. and that's the first 105,000 I'm going to pay off is the first 105,000 of smallest debts. So,

credit cards, um the student loans are probably broken up into several loans, are they not? >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to get them out as individual loans and I'm going to list every debt, smallest to largest balance regardless of interest rate.

>> And I'm going to not take that 104,000 and go as fast through there as I can.

And then wherever that lands me, gonna cut up the credit cards. And then we're gonna probably the cars are going to be the last two things you pay. Actually, >> probably where you're going to end up.

>> Um, and then you're going to just attack those. You only got $77,000 in debt. You got two $200,000 to work on. If you're both completely focused on that, you could be debtree in a year. >> Mhm. >> And then you don't have any payments.

And now we uh build the emergency fund

up to where it should be. 3 to six months of expenses. That's baby step three. And then we restart the 401ks and

now we start building wealth. And um you're going to be in a really strong position to do that. But the what happens is that people keep this stuff.

They keep tinkering around. They keep trying to hack find kind of some kind of shortcut or some kind of hack like I'm going to keep the stock options >> because I like those. I heard you say it. Yeah. >> And uh and I'm just going to work on it over here. No, that's a hack. You're trying to find a shortcut. And and listen, the stock options are not as valuable as you being free mathematically.

>> No, in no way does the math work on that because people look over here and they say in his case 100,000 I've got 100,000. I'm like, you don't have 100,000. If you owe someone 177,000,

you're still 77,000 in debt. That's what math says.

>> Yeah. The math ain't math. Math ain't math. So there you go.

That's what you say. So yeah, that's exactly right. So that's how I'm going to do it. And what we're going to do is give you guys a wedding gift, Financial Peace University and Every Dollar, the full Every Dollar experience, the paid version.

If you screw around with this stuff, you're going to be 10 years, and you're going to look about like you look now.

>> And that's what most people do. All the money comes in, all the money goes out, and they're just a rat in a wheel. They just run, run, run, run with no traction because they don't execute on a detailed, proven process. And that's what we're going to beg you to do.

>> So, you hang on and we'll have Kelly pick up and we'll give you our wedding gift. Congratulations on your wedding Friday. That's pretty cool. >> I'm with you. Uh, >> who calls two days before, three days before the Not Not me. He's feeling the way. >> He's not thinking about anything like this. >> No, not at all. on the weight.

>> Yeah. >> Well, he's just a planner extraordinaire. I mean, that may be what he may be the super nerd, and that's going to work to his benefit, too. >> Well, he has to promise us not to mention this at all >> until you get back from the honeymoon.

Do not bring any of this up.

>> And really, don't even reveal that you were thinking about this two days before the wedding. >> Don't tell that until maybe 10 years later. Don't just don't reveal that.

That's not going to go well for you.

>> Yeah. So, um, >> the names have been changed in this conversation to protect the innocent. >> Yeah, his name's not really Mike. His name is really Joe and he's not really in Dallas. He's really in Minneapolis.

So, anyway, but uh, okay. So, I hope

you never know around here. Uh

there is something unbelievable folks about the power of focus.

When you can choose

extreme focus,

meaning you're not doing anything else, you're only doing one thing.

When you choose that in a culture that has the attention span of a gnat

that is so distracted everybody is looking at their phone 2600 times a day, they're thinking about 47,000 things at one time and they're not good at any of them. When you choose a singular focus,

you set yourself apart from the general population. >> And and we call those people successful people. >> That's right. That's right. Listen, even

Michael Jordan could only do basketball.

We saw what happened when he tried to do baseball. >> It was kind of ugly. And >> yeah, >> one of the one of the greatest athletes to ever walk the planet. He really wasn't that bad, but it didn't transfer.

>> No, >> it didn't transfer. He he um Yeah, it

was >> got focus in one area.

>> Only thing he did is try and you got to give him that. But yeah,

focus. There's a power to focus.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Number one best-selling author Shawn is with us in Tennessee. Hey Sean, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Dave, how are y'all? >> Just the same, sir. How can we help?

So, recently just graduated from college, bought a house, and started running the race like everyone else, and figured out that's not quite going too well. I've racked up about a $125,000

in debt. That's between student loans, a

car loan, and consumer debt. And that's

not feeling great, but it feels manageable. The only problem is now my

wife is going through school as well. So

when she gets out, she'll have student loans.

>> So you're actively taking them.

>> You're actively taking the student loans out now today?

>> Well, yes, she is took out her first one

just this month. >> And how much further does she have to go?

>> Uh she'll have uh four more years. Okay.

So, >> so you you you went to she went to school. You're in debt. You can't breathe. And so your plan is honey, you need to go back to school and let's go further in debt to make sure we fail.

Why is this a plan?

>> Well, it wasn't the plan until just recently. >> It's not a plan. It sucks. She should not be in school. You don't have any money. >> You got to stop it.

>> I'm currently the only one with the the income. And this was before I found y'all. And the whole >> No, I mean, you don't have to find us to go, I can't breathe. Let's go deeper in debt.

That was kind of what y'all's plan was.

It doesn't even make sense, man.

>> Yeah. What's she going to school for? What's she trying to become?

>> So, she's going to school to become a pharmacist. Uh, I just recently graduated from pharmacy school. Uh, currently right now at a pretty good job. It's 125,000 a year.

>> Okay. That's pretty typical. >> That's good. So, here here's my suggestion. Hear me out because this is a big turn from what you're doing. My suggestion would be you guys are together. You're married. You've you've both just finished school. You realize that your student loans were a mistake.

Couldn't you work for a while? Could she delay just a little bit while you guys start to clean this up? Is there something else she can do that's adjacent while you guys clean up this mess and start saving for her to go little by little? because we don't want to repeat the same mistake twice.

Right. >> Right. Right.

>> I don't have a plan that helps you if she continues in school and is racking up debt. There's not a plan that helps that.

So, it just doesn't it's not logical to me. I don't mind her being in school. I don't mind her being having the goal of being a pharmacist. That's all fine, but let's just pay for it.

And right now you can't pay for it because you're so far in debt you can't breathe because you bought a bunch of crap you can't afford and now you're buying even more crap you can't afford her education. So you guys have really got to talk about this and change this direction. I don't think you're going to but you're you're going to crash. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> You're going to crash. You're going to hit the wall, man. And it's going to be bad.

>> Well, that's it's it's it really is insanity. You did a thing. It caused you to feel crazy and you're doing it again thinking >> doing more of it. Let's do more.

>> It didn't work. So, let's double down on didn't work. >> Yeah. It's not No, no, no, no, no, Sean.

And And so, not for your sake, man. I want you guys to be free and I want you to be able to live your dreams and all you're doing is creating a nightmare that you may never get out of.

>> I don't know how long it's going to take you guys to clean this up. >> Yeah. >> So, no, I would not do that. Um, I would stop school. I would, if I'm her, I'm gonna get a job making as much as I can make. You take on as much as you can make. You guys live on beans and rice, rice and beans, sell the stupid car, and let's tear into this debt and get it cleared up in a couple of years, and let's try to knock this out.

>> Um, and then start saving for her to go to school and pay cash for it.

>> Um, and then your income will go way on up and you will have no debt and you're in a position to build wealth. But, and all all along the way have had a lot more peace. >> Yeah. And by the way, now is not the time to buy a house and all those other things that people do when they >> too late >> enter the world, you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You jump you jumped in the middle of a rat race and acted like a rat. And that's not Man, it's going it's it's a problem.

>> So may even need to sell the house. I don't know. You guys got >> Did they already get one? >> Yeah. He said he already bought a house. Bought a house, bought a car, and and that already did all that. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Jen is in Mississippi. Hi, Jen. How are you? Hi Dave. I'm great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Great. Thank you for taking my call. I

I'm married. I'm 60. We're in our forever home. It's a two-bedroom.

And started the debt snowball in

January. Um

with 243 uh 243,000 in debt >> on step two.

Uh it was a lot of credit cards and uh

different uh loans and a car and a boat.

>> Is any of that the house?

>> No, I have it down now to >> So what do you owe on your boat?

>> The boat I owe 68,000?

>> Yes. >> Sell it.

>> Okay. Well, I have a there's been like a curveball in our life since we started all this. Um I have the debt down to 150

right now.

>> January, >> but you owe 68,000 on a boat, >> right? >> Sell it.

>> Okay. So, >> you live in a two-bedroom house and you have a $70,000 boat. Well, it's it's

not a small two-bedroom, but anyway, my

we recently last year got custo temporary custody of our three grandchildren, and

it's turning into permanent and we really need to build onto this house to get them three bed to get some bedrooms

and I don't know how

to manage paying off the debt and getting this. >> What is your home worth? >> On 250.

>> Okay. >> I owe a 100 on it.

>> Okay. Um I would not build on to it. I

would sell it and buy a home that has bedrooms.

>> Okay. >> It's not a good plan in your situation.

You have so many balls in the air, you're going to drop one. Um Wow. What

in the world happened, kid? That you end up with these babies?

>> Well, there was a tra there was a death.

Um >> the the dad died in a in a motorcycle wreck and then they became homeless and living with four different people in in a year >> and they had no bed. They had no structure. She the oldest one was 10 um

eight. She was failing she failed second grade and was going to fail it again. So we took them >> got got temporary custody and it's turning in to be full-time. So, and >> I'm sorry. You just gave your life away for those kiddos and you should cuz you love them and you want to take care of them. You're >> Well, they didn't ask for any of this.

>> I know you're a neat lady. I appreciate you. Sell the boat and sell the house and go get a house that holds these kids. We're going to focus on the kids,

not on your dreams that you used to have.

You have new We have a new dream now.

It's raising these kids and everything revolves around that. you took that on and that's um and so I'm gonna I'm I

would not do an extensive remodel and wait on that for them to have a bedroom.

I'd simply put a sign in the yard, put a sign on the boat, >> and and then let's go get a house that holds that's got four bedrooms. Maybe a different neighborhood, maybe further out of town. I don't know. But um looking for a deal and let's try to get, you know, let's focus in on them on those babies and let's see if we can get them get them back on track. Bless their hearts. Thank you for doing that.

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[Music]

Kyle's in Wisconsin. Hey Kyle, how are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, so my question is, uh, currently on

baby step four, five, and six. Um, married, no kids yet, but that is, uh,

coming up hopefully soon. Um, my wife and I are currently doing 15% investing.

Um, we're debating on getting your um,

thoughts, I guess, on reducing that investing to the company match, which would free up more in our monthly budget to do on the mortgage because I currently drive 40 minutes each way to work. And my thought is if I didn't have the mortgage, I could afford to take a lesser paying job that's closer to home.

>> Why don't you take a greater paying job that's closer to home now?

Um, I've looked in the area, but we currently live in a smaller farm town and I currently work in a slightly bigger city. Um, I just haven't seen any

>> um, uh, better income.

Um, wife and I combined for two.

>> What do you make? You're the one making the drive.

>> Oh, sure. Um, I currently make about about 120 130,000 a year. So, can I ask

uh I'm going to try to come at this another way. So, you're saying the difference between the match and you going full 15%. How much is that monthly for you? What's the number amount?

>> Roughly 1,500 would be the less amount

of investing and the extra to put on mortgage. My voice is shaking. I'm pretty nervous. >> And how much how much time because that's what's in question. How much time does that $1,500 save you in paying off your mortgage? It's $18,000 a year.

What's the balance on the mortgage?

>> Uh, we currently owe 460.

>> Okay. >> So, this is a long this is a long-term play.

>> Yeah. >> So, my question would not would not be about backing down your 15% because

that's so important in the grand scheme of things. That's a lot of time that you'd be losing out on compound interest. My what I'd be solving for is what can my wife and I do combined that will find us $1,500 a month. Is it a side hustle? Is it something she can do?

Is it something that we change about our lifestyle? Are there cuts in the Do you see what I'm saying? Is there a way that we can get a lot closer to that 1500 without sacrificing something that's very very important?

>> Cuz I wouldn't want you to sacrifice something so important. Do you see what I'm saying? >> I I do. I do. Um, I I have one other bit of info, and it I don't want it to come off as I'm not trying to brag or anything like that, but we do currently have about 150,000 invested total. Um,

and we're both um in our 20s. So,

>> in in the 401k,

>> correct? Yes. >> Okay. All right.

>> So, my thought is we live pretty frugally um based on calculating

different things. Even if I did nothing, that's still going to grow to obviously a very nice nest egg. Obviously more than >> you're in your 20s and you commute 40 minutes, >> correct?

>> That would be called normal.

>> I was going to say, >> sure, >> most people do.

>> Okay. >> Lots of people commute an hour plus

to go to their job.

>> Sure.

I'm not sure we're solving for the right thing.

Um, no, I would not stop putting 15%

away. And um, uh, do you not like your

job?

>> No. No, I do. It's just the the drive can just I I get it's not super long.

It's just winter time at everything.

It's just it can be long hours. Um, just

different things. So, I just want to see anything I can do to knock the mortgage out, but then also >> Yeah. But no, I mean, you're solving for in your 20s, you want to drive 10 minutes, and so you're willing to take a $60,000 pay cut to do that once you get

the house paid off. Even if the house was paid off, I don't think this is a wise thing to solve for.

>> Okay? >> The trade-off is not worth it. Now what I might do I mean if that is that great a concern to you move closer to your

work >> and let's solve let's solve the thing a different way. >> But this idea that I'm going to plan my life so that in my 20s I can make half what I used to make so that I don't have to have a commute. That's a bad trade man. That's a bad trade.

You need to trade something else. >> Yeah. >> There's something else needs to move in in these variables. There's a handful of variables here.

Let's turn a different knob. >> That's what I'm saying. The last knob to turn is your future, which is your retirement. >> Yeah, I'm going to put 15% away.

I may move or I may get peace with the 40-minute commute.

and there's like integrity problems at the other place or I hate the place or ethics issues or something like that.

But none of that is up here. This is just I don't like driving 40 minutes.

>> Um >> I'd just be trying to whittle down that 1500. Can I get it to 700? Can I find 700 somewhere? I'd be looking at that number. >> But even then, the purpose of it is so he can quit his job. >> Yeah, you're right. >> And we're solving that's what we're solving. That's the solutioning for all the way through. And that's I just don't want to participate in that part of it either. >> I hear you. >> So I think I think I'm going to solve this a different way. Um, and and I'm

going to keep putting 15% away to your point. Uh, but even if you made more on these side hustles and you got the house paid off, then you quit your job over a 40-minute commute. I just I still can't get there. I can't go there with you.

>> Austin is in Missouri. Hey, Austin.

What's up?

>> Hey guys, appreciate you speaking into my situation. >> Sure. >> I have a I have a question about um a

blessing I've got in my life. I'm a pastor and excuse me, my my church just

updated its uh PTO policy. So, they bought us out of our PTO and we can choose to take that in a taxed check or um take it and have it put directly

into our annuity and we we don't have

any debt.

>> I'm sorry. You are in debt?

>> We are not in debt. >> Not in debt. Okay. >> No, sir. other than our home. We own a home. We owe about $40,000 on it. I think we could sell it between 2 and 250. >> We would like to buy another home. We don't have one that we're actively working on buying, but we would like to.

>> How big's a check? >> And I'm just $8,600.

>> Okay, let's pay the house down.

>> Mhm. You only have 40,000 to go. Wow.

>> Yeah. Now you only got 30,000 to go.

That's awesome. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I didn't ask. Do you have three to six months of expenses?

>> Yeah. Yeah, we've we've got about $25,000 in savings.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Sorry, I should have said that. >> No, that's okay.

Yes, ma'am. Even with the tax that that might come on that, you'd say just put it toward the house. >> Oh, yeah. >> Currently got Okay.

>> Definitely. That's where That's where you are in the baby steps. All lump sums that unless you need it for something around the house. That's the other thing.

We're in baby steps four, five, and six. So, we're being intentional, not intense. And intentional might mean you need to upgrade a car. There might be a couch with a spring sticking through it.

You need a new couch. I don't know. You may need it for some of that, too. But if you've got it as free and clear and you don't have other needs for it before I would put it into the annuity, I' into your retirement, I'd put it on the house.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

You're heading in the right way. Way to go, man. That is so awesome. That's very, very good.

So Jade, um I think it's good occasionally to recap on a couple of these things. Um when we laid out the baby steps and came

up with that process and started teaching people to follow that, we ran

uh that was 25 plus years ago. >> Uhhuh. And we ran a whole bunch of

scenarios down and said, "Okay, under what are the numbers that allow people to get their home paid off, to invest

for their kids' college, uh, and still be putting something away for retirement, >> right? >> Um, and uh, we ran the scenario, you

know, at the time is a long time ago, like a single mom making 23,000 or a doctor making 230,000. Now the numbers would be different than that, but you still run the numbers out.

>> Uh the expenses are different than they were then, too. >> But you want it to work for anyone.

>> Exactly. And oddly enough, it it wasn't a biblical exercise. It was just a math exercise.

But oddly enough, that 15% in Baby Step 4 has turned out to be the right number.

It turned out because we ran like 12, we ran 17, we ran 10, we ran 20. And then

the house didn't get reduced if too much was going in. Sure. >> Or if 10%, it wasn't enough. It wasn't building up fast enough. And so guys, these numbers work.

>> So you're not going to catch us adjusting them very often cuz they've proven out over decades >> and work for everyone.

>> All kinds of different scenarios.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Daniel's in Ohio. Hi, Daniel. How are you? >> I'm doing good. Uh how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So last month it kind of kicked for me and uh I just got really sick and tired being sick and tired. >> Cool. >> Um I've been like this before and uh

that kind of makes my wife question if I'm serious or not. But last time I had a uh financial adviser uh he actually

idolized you and uh just everything that you did and he was very close to being a multi-millionaire before he eventually passed away right after he was helping us with our budget. So, um, I got real

disheartened and stopped budgeting. I just stopped everything and just >> Why did that not inspire you instead of dishearten you? >> I I know. I know. And that's that's kind

of what I'm feeling now. I'm I'm feeling more inspired to do this and and I mean,

how ashamed he would have been just it

just scares me. And

um so I'm I'm starting my baby steps.

Uh, I know I need to save my thousand and uh, I don't think I'll have an issue with that. Um, my issue is I went to one

of those stupid uh, buy here, pay here car lots where they they are the bank, so they finance you through themselves.

>> And I ended up paying close to $34,000

for a Dodge Caravan. Um, it was 199, but

after interest it was close to $34,000.

>> Oh boy. Um, I have been paying $175 a

week for this van for the past two and a half years. And uh, yeah, I've had

nothing but issues with it. Um, so next

month I'm getting a check, uh, from a job uh, for $2,500.

Um, and I was going to use that to buy a

family vehicle with no payments and give

the van back on a voluntary repossession. No, >> I just listened to an episode today that said you would never do that.

>> Nope, I would not. >> So, I thought I would call.

>> Okay. >> So, um the 34,000 is not the balance.

>> No, >> 34,000 is the total of payments,

>> including all interest through the end of the loan.

>> And so, that's not your that's not your payoff balance. So, what you need to get from them is what the actual payoff is.

If you walked in there with a check today, >> uh, it would be right around 14,000.

>> Oh, good. >> Oh, that's a way better.

>> And what's the van worth?

>> Uh, it's probably worth about $2,000.

>> Who said?

>> Uh, the transmission is going out,

>> you said. >> Um, >> okay. >> Yeah, I said. >> Okay. So, the transmission's struggling,

but and the vans, >> but but you paid originally 20,000 and now you think it's worth two two years later. That's a bit of drama. I don't believe you. >> It It wasn't in the best condition when I got it. >> I know. But you didn't pay >> $20,000.

You're not that dumb. For a van that was worth eight,

and you didn't. And so this van's not worth two now. It's probably worth seven or eight.

>> Okay, you need you need to figure out what the van's really worth and get the drama out >> because if you turn this into them, they're going to sell it for two and they're going to come after you for 12 plus repo fees.

>> You lose control of the sale price of the van when you do a voluntary or a regular repo and they're going to sell it at below wholesale because it's what they do at those lots. This is the scam they run.

So they they want you to do this. So no, I I'm going to find out what the van's really worth and I'm going to get it sold and I'm going to cover the difference with a loan at the credit union or wherever. Even on a credit card, if you borrow $45,000 and you get out of a $14,000 loan and a crappy van and you pay take $2,500 bucks and go get you a little car, I I'm I'm with you on your general direction that this thing's got to go. Um but but

a voluntary repo is not a good plan.

>> Okay? >> I mean, you're going to end up owing $6 or $8,000 more by doing this.

>> That's that's why it's not a good plan. That's you understand. They're going to sell it for way cheaper than you would sell it for. So, the hole that you're in is going to be a lot larger. And then they're going to come after you for that amount of money.

>> Yes. >> You're going to get sued for that amount of money if you don't pay it to them.

And they will. this group will they'll come after you.

>> It's what they do. It's their modus operandi. >> What's your what's your hesitation?

>> Uh I I worry like even if I sold the van

uh I worry about um not being able to

get a loan to cover it. My credit is at like a 574.

>> Yeah, that may be difficult.

And um you know, you might go back down and talk to them and say, "Is there a situation where you guys would buy this back and let me sign a note with you for

the difference and just pay them?"

I'd rather you owe them5 or $6,000

than owe then have it voluntarily repoed.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> So, you talk to them. I'd talk to your credit union. I'd take out a credit card. any of that cuz any of that's you're you're all we're at the end of the day what we're doing is reducing your debt. So any of that's we're just changing the structure of the debt and reducing it. And that's what you've got to do, man. And you can't just you can't

sign up for something that's horrible, stick your foot in a bear trap, and then go, "Oh, the best way to get out of the bear trap is chew my foot off." No, you can't do that. You got to open the thing, heal. You got to fix it. You know, you got to you're going to have to go through some more pain to fix the the bad decision that you made when you impulsively did this.

And you knew better when you were doing it the whole time. >> The whole time. >> Yeah. So, this is this is the price you pay for that.

And that's okay. We've all done stupid stuff, but just, you know, don't don't compound it and make it worse.

The least damage to your foot after you stuck it in a bear trap. >> That's right. And so, >> so guys, um, when you have a car loan of

any kind, doesn't matter whether it's pay now, pay here, buy here, whatever, >> the note, >> tote the note people, or whether it's freaking Lexus motor credit and Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler credit and anybody like that. It doesn't matter.

This is not a Hertz rent a car that you can just drop the thing off, >> right? >> And say, I don't want it anymore.

They're going to assess that. They're going to run it through a repo auction.

And I've bought cars at repo auctions and they sell below wholesale.

>> Mhm. >> And sometimes they run them through Mannheim, they run them through the big auctions, the auto auctions. And they, you know, they say this is a repo >> and they, you know, and so you're expecting some dings. You're expecting some problems with it. If you're the buyer, and I'm going to discount it below wholesale >> so that I'm getting a deal if I'm the buyer. And so it's going to bring the

least possible price in that scenario

and then they're going to sue you for the difference and you've got a repo on your credit. >> Yeah. Meanwhile, you could have sold it >> and and you know, doubled or tripled

>> and cut cut the problem down. So you guys I I don't like my car anymore, so I'm going to just drop it off at the dealer. Y'all can't do that. Okay?

You're killing yourself. It's not a hurts rent a car.

[Music]

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Savannah in Alabama. She says, "My partner and I are engaged and living together. I have about 200,000 in student loan debt and he has 125,000 left on his mortgage. We

have separate finances and he's supportive of me getting out of debt.

The problem is that I have a hard time watching him splurge on hobbies and travel which he can easily afford while I can't. I agree that when we get married all this changes and we have already talked about being frugal together. Is it fair to ask him to save

now for when we get married? And if not,

how do I manage this disconnect?

>> He should want to save cuz he's going to have to face the piper later.

>> Yeah. And >> and it's going to cause him to kick the can down the road on the marriage date.

>> Well, that's my thing. It doesn't sound like there's much of a date. She doesn't mention a date. And so I wonder about

that. >> Okay. We're already acting like we're married in every sense of the word.

We're living together. >> Uhhuh. go get married like this weekend.

>> Yeah, >> that solves it.

Which is what you should have done in the first place, actually.

>> Yeah. The whole thing is weird. They're living together. It's his mortgage. It's her debt. Um, yeah, there's a lot of problems here. >> You're trying to do everything in the wrong order and in the wrong way. So, it solves it all. Just go get married this weekend. >> And then both of you attack.

>> You know, that shuts down the whole discussion. If you were living separately and he was making a lot of money and had no debt except his mortgage >> and the same question came up, >> I would expect him to want to if he

called and asked us what to do, we would tell him >> to save money like crazy so that as soon as he comes home with the honeymoon, he makes a big old lump someum hit on that

thing. Right. >> Yeah. And uh that would be the more normal way to I don't know if normal is the right word, but it would be the more the if everything was in the proper order, that's the way it would go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Instead, we've gotten things out of order here. >> He doesn't think that you guys are getting married anytime soon.

>> And nor does he have an incentive to >> No, he doesn't. So, of course, he's supportive of you paying off your debt.

That doesn't that's no skin off his back. >> Yeah. And there's no reason to get married. He's He's got everything he needs. M >> there you have it. >> Hello. All right. I'm just saying. All right. Maya is in Colorado Springs. Hey,

Maya. What's up?

>> Hey. How are y'all? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I've got a a debt snowball question. So, I'm getting ready to start baby step two and I've got all my debts listed out smallest to largest. But I was evicted in January and I still owe that apartment complex about $14,000.

>> Wow. Were you >> probably number six on my list? Uh I lost my job due to a medical complication. I'm reemployed now and um was able to get another rental place with a larger deposit. >> Great. Um what do you make my Yeah. Um I make about 42,000 a year.

>> All right. Good. All right. So you got a huge debt there, huh?

>> Oh, that's just a portion of it. I'm about 53 in total.

>> Okay. Um, but my my question is, um, my

ex-boyfriend, my boyfriend at the time was a co-licant on that apartment with me. >> Um, he lives in another state. He never lived in that apartment. He was just helping me out because my credit is so bad. >> Um, so I'm wondering if I should get that one paid off first so that he's not screwed when his lease is over or if I should still just follow the snowball and go smallest to largest.

>> Well, he's already screwed because he's got a judgment against him.

Yeah. >> Okay. So, I mean, when his lease is over, that's going to show up on his credit bureau, >> right? >> So, I mean, it'll either show it'll either show he's got a judgment had a judgment against him that's been paid off or he's just got a judgment because the lease he signed got evicted.

So, that's going to Yeah, he's got a pretty heavy >> damage to him already. Most of the damage has already been done is my point, >> right? So whether it's paid off or not is not is not really going to keep him from getting something over in another city. >> So you got 54,000 you said.

>> 53. Um let's see. Let me pull up my notes real quick.

>> Um I've got um some credit card debt. Um

>> how much? >> Some other small personal loans.

>> How much credit card? about about 16,000.

>> All right, that's that's 30 of the 53.

What's the rest of it? >> Personal loans. How much is that? >> I've got about 14,000 on a car that was

wrecked that I didn't have insurance on and then uh a little over 12,000 to the

um apartment complex. And then just some other small things like old Widers that

I haven't paid. >> Okay. >> Insurance I in debt on, stuff like that.

Okay. Um,

you are paying double and triple for a lot of things because you're paying it poorly.

There's a lot of things on this list that that are out of control things. A car that I wrecked, I didn't have insurance on. Other stuff I haven't gotten around to and it's piled up back there. >> So, there's a lot of different crisises represented in those things that you created by not taking care of business.

Yes. >> Like keeping car insurance in place.

>> That's like a priority >> because otherwise you end up with this mess on a car and you don't even have the car anymore.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. >> What kind of work do you do?

>> I'm a dog groomer. >> A dog groomer. Okay. And I'm just trying to understand how this all originated, how this kind of started spiraling out like Dave was saying. Um where that instability came from. Is it coming from dog grooming as a profession or is it coming from something else?

>> Uh, no. So, in November, um, I was

diagnosed with a a disease that prevents

me from driving and I'm a mobile dog groomer. Now, it's managed and medicated and I'm back to work, but that's kind of when all of that happened.

>> Okay. >> I wasn't able to pay the rent and the car insurance and everything just quickly piled up. >> The credit card debt is just for me being irresponsible. And you've cut them up since. >> All right. >> Oh, yeah.

>> Okay.

>> All right. So, okay. Yeah. No, I'm going to work the debt snowball straight up.

List your debts smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little ones and attack the little ones with a vengeance and work your way straight through as fast as you can. Um,

are you on a salary at 42?

No, I make around 800 a week depending

on, you know, tips and all that sort of stuff. >> Right. Okay. Are you able to work more than you're working?

>> Um, so the branch in Colorado Springs just opened about two weeks ago. I was able to pick up a third day and as it grows I'll be able to pick up more work um day.

>> Yeah, I currently work three days a week. >> What are you doing with the other four days?

Um, I Door Dash, take care of my kid in

my home. And >> didn't sound like it. Didn't sound like it to me. It sound like you're doing nothing.

>> Pretty much. Yeah.

>> And listen, you're broke. You got to be working, girl. >> Yeah. >> All the time.

>> Okay. >> How old is your baby?

>> She's three. >> And is who takes care of him when you're working?

>> My fiance.

Okay.

>> Okay. When are you getting married?

>> Uh, that is to be determined depending on how long it takes us to not be broke.

>> That's how No, that that's how fiance works. We have a date.

Otherwise, otherwise we have a promise that has not got a date.

>> Okay. >> And so, yeah, that's an issue. How long have y'all been engaged?

um November.

>> Being debtree is not required to get married in the state of Colorado.

>> This is true.

>> Okay. So, what does he make?

>> Um right now he's not working because he was in a motorcycle wreck.

>> Okay. >> Y'all are a hot mess.

>> How is he taking care of a baby?

>> I mean, a three-year-old.

>> Yeah. I mean, he can manage. He can work. >> I think he can work. I think you both

need to work more.

>> A lot more.

>> Yeah. >> Yep. >> That's why I asked the question before.

>> Less partying, more working.

Lots more working. Money comes from work. You need money.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Jade Waw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Andreas is with us in Austin, Texas. Hey Andreas, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, thank you. Thanks for uh taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um well, I need your help trying to figure out how to retire my wife. Uh we

have uh we had a baby a few months ago and it has now it's now time for her to go back into the office. And every time she leaves for the office, I can see it in her eyes. It's killing her to to go to the office. And uh uh I would love

nothing more than to work uh you know and just take I mean sorry I am working but uh you know take care of all the bills and do all that. The problem is she makes more money than I do and not by a small margin. Uh she's in software.

I'm in construction and so >> what do you make? >> I'm trying to figure out you know >> I'd make uh 5,000 take-home. What does

she make >> a month?

>> $7,200 a month. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And >> can you live on $5,000 a month?

>> Uh, we have to figure it out. Uh, we got a mortgage, but no other pay. How much is your mortgage? Mortgage by >> $3,441.

>> You can't live in that. You can't live in that house if she's at home.

>> That's the big picture to this. That's the big key to this is you'd have to sell the house. You'd have to downsize and it'd have to be something to where the mortgage is no more than 25% of 5,000 take-home pay

>> 1,250

>> 1250 >> half the house. >> Um we we do have various investments. Uh

we have about 415,000

>> in one >> across uh uh we have about some of it is

retirement about 60 for each of us in 401ks. Um then there the rest of it is

in brokerage accounts and some company stocks. >> So >> which which totals what the non-retirement totals how much?

>> The so the uh 412 minus about 120.

So, let's call it 300 grand. Okay. So, what's your loan balance on the mortgage?

>> We have we owe 269. We have about

200,000 in equity.

>> So, if you paid off the mortgage

with your brokerage account. >> Mhm. >> You got no mortgage. Now, you got $5,000.

That's better than selling it. That's that's extra information we didn't have early in the conversation. >> That's a big piece of it. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I I think you should probably do that anyway. You should do that anyway.

>> The money. So, is that Yeah.

>> What now? >> Does that make sense?

>> Uh, so I mean the having the the money in the uh you know invested is not that doesn't make more than because I think our interest rate on the house is 6% but the average return on the investment should be like seven or something for the year. Right. >> Sure. But you said you opened the call with saying you were looking for a way to to use your words, retire your wife, but she wants to be a stay-at-home mom.

And you were looking at how can I do that? >> And we were saying here here's the solution to what you're saying. Now, to Dave's point, we would have told you to do that regardless because it's non-retirement funds. It's stock and you still have the debt of your home laying around. So, we probably would have suggested that to you regardless of the fact >> no one has ever what no millionaire that we've ever interviewed Andreas has said the way I got rich was I borrowed money on my house and invested it in a brokerage account.

>> Zero zero millionaires say that,

>> right?

>> So, that that's that's mythology from Tik Tok.

Okay? And it just doesn't work because in the real world we have this thing called risk and babies. So if we paid

off your house, how much other debt do you have?

>> Uh nothing. We own our cars. We don't have anything else. No other no.

>> So without a house payment, sit down and do a budget with your wife tonight on the Every Dollar app and commit to

living on your income and not a dime

more.

And just to just to drive this solution home, I just wanted a to ask, did you have any suggestions of how you could do it?

>> Well, I mean, so here's here's another factor. Uh because she's in software, her next um she should be getting uh uh

her her trajectory, she should be making four 400,000 like pretty soon.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm just wondering if we can't move the you know, move this the assets that we currently have around. And of course, I'm going to do my best to get my my money up, too. But just if we can do something here just with with what we have uh to get to that point where she can step away from that job, you know, in the next five or five years or so.

>> So, you're saying, "Can we wait? I'm so confused. You You are so screwed up on

your goals. You need to decide what it is you want, honey. You called up and said, "My wife's eyes when she leaves a brand new baby she just has, I want to retire my wife." We just told you how to do that. Now you got to work in five more years. I'm confused.

>> Well, that's the the biggest question is, is this her saying to you, I want to stay at home, or is this something you've put in your brain that you want to like surprise her with?

>> She h she has expressed uh you know, not demanded, but expressed it would be nice to have that option. Sorry, I made clear. >> So, y'all got to sit down tonight and figure out what you want to do. >> Does she want to work and make 400k or does she want to be at home? >> Yeah, clearly. you need to pay off the house either way and um you you know

figure out if you can live on five grand, dude. And then you work your career and get your career up and someday she goes back to work. By then her software skills will be completely irrelevant. >> Mhm. >> And she gets to start completely over.

So um if she steps out, you don't get to step out of that world for 5 minutes, much less five years. And so that world's cutting edge, bleeding edge, changes every 10 minutes. And so um the

number of things that the people in this building that do software engineering are doing today that they did 5 years ago is zero.

>> That's a good >> nothing is the same. And so um about the

time I start understanding a little bit of what they're doing, it's over and they have to have to start again. So uh yeah, that's but that that that's okay.

It's um but it's not a skill set that you can put on the shelf and take back off the shelf later.

uh you know it's not like I'm a nurse

you know anatomy is not going to change when you come back 5 years later okay but the uh and you know there may be a few medical procedures that are different or something like that but nursing will still be nursing 5 years later you can put that one on the shelf keep your shirts active go back to work when the kid goes to kindergarten that's not an unusual thing people do that stuff all the time this one you're just saying I'd rather be home than make 400k and that's not that's perfectly okay >> but you don't choice Enter that on assumptions is all I'm saying.

>> No, you don't want to go. You don't want to go. We're going to do this and hope it works out.

and this is what we are both willing to do. >> Yeah. >> And if you're not willing to do that, then don't quit. >> Yeah. And weigh out all the opportunity costs on that cuz $400,000 is a big income. And I'm not saying money is everything, but to Dave's point, there's a lot to be weighed and considered there. kind of like what you said in the first uh segment about you have to make

a decision with the end in mind.

>> I'm pretty sure 98% I made that number up >> of uh 99.9% of the ladies who have their

first child and when they go back to work it's very difficult.

>> Yes. >> Now I have a lady working here that just had her third child and she couldn't wait to go back to work. Listen,

you did not lie, Dave. There is no lie.

>> So, it, you know, finding reasons to get out of the house. >> It's a normal thing to have this, you know, have this angst. Um, and if you're

a career lady, that's a normal thing.

And so, you just got to work through what's real here.

[Music]

[Music]

Are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply

head to the show notes, click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quiz, and we'll send you a personalized plan.

Nicole is in Utah. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

I'm so good. Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good. Good. I'm so excited, but I can't I'm a little nervous. Okay, so I have a

question. I My husband and I are on baby step number two. Um we've gone through a

lot of uh we've got a lot of medical and

credit card debt. Um I've hadn't really bad health problems the last three to four years. Um, so now we are just struggling to pay all our credit cards and our medical bills. Um, I was listening to you earlier and somebody called in and you told them to stop um,

contributing to the 401k in those kind

of cases. Is that right?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. My question is, would it be smart or really stupid to take that 401k money

out to help with the debts and the

monthly payment? I would not take the money out of the 401k that you have stocked up thus far, but I would stop contributing to it. How much are you currently contributing?

>> Um, we stopped contributing about a month ago, so we're not contributing anymore. >> How much debt have you got in credit cards and medical bills?

>> Uh, in credit cards, we've got close to

20,000 in medical debt. It's probably

4,000. >> 4,000. And uh how much are your do you own your cars?

>> Um we don't owe any on our cars. We drive our 2004.

>> Good. What's what's your household income?

>> It's about 115 um for my husband and I make like 12. I just do part-time work. >> Okay. >> Are you are you still ill?

>> Um no. I'm I'm feeling better and I I'm able to work now um full-time. So, I'm

slowly increasing that, which is helping a little. >> Good. Okay. I'm If you're all better now, why are you slowly increasing it?

>> Uh, just to just to get my momentum up back to where I'm 100% functioning. I

had a knee replacement, three knee surgeries, and carpal tunnel. So, it's like kind of fresh and I still have to recover from it a little bit. >> When does when did you have your knee replaced?

>> Uh, a year ago.

You should be back functioning.

>> Yeah. >> Does not take a year to do a knee replacement. >> It also depends on what kind of work you're trying to do.

>> Yeah. I actually work as a lunch lady at this school and I also on the side do door dash deliveries just to try and make some money. >> So you this for you is a lot of standing, a lot of lifting. I still agree with Dave. I feel like you should be ready if you've done the physical therapy.

>> Yeah. >> What's the doctor say?

The doctors I don't say much at all.

They'll let you know. They'll let you know when they're clear to work.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. Yeah. I'm clear to work for sure.

>> Yeah. And and so you need we don't need to be door dashing and lunch lady. We need a real job >> and start getting some some some money coming in. >> And you guys aren't managing the 115 very well either.

This should not 24,000 should not be killing you if you make 115,000 plus your income.

>> I'm agreed. >> I think you're not on a budget. Am I right? >> I know you're not on a budget.

>> Okay. So, we're going to >> We have it written down one, but we don't very well. We're >> Yeah, it's not the same. We're going to hook you up with Every Dollar uh the all new Every Dollar.

It's the best budgeting app out there. But not only that, it's going to help you >> walk through what we're teaching you here. Okay? So, at the end of this call, as long as you open every dollar, it's going to pick up where we left off and keep you on track.

Okay. But you have to promise that you're going to log in and on board. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Now, >> okay. >> Now, a year after a knee replacement, you need a full-time job >> and uh your your family needs the income and you guys need to clean this mess up.

So, um, yeah, >> it it sounds like talking to you that your body has recovered more than your emotions from the medical problems.

>> You hit the nail on the head there. Yeah. >> Okay. I don't blame you. I'm a I'm a wuss when it comes to pain. So, my wife is like a Navy Seal and I get a hangail and I'm in ICU. So, um, so I get that.

But, um, I I think it's going to be really good for your emotions and and everything. your energy level will go up when you've got something to a harness to lean into to pull. And so go do that.

Go do something now. And um the more activity you have, the more endorphins are released, the more some of this the cloud, the fog starts to lift and you go on. And so hard work actually solves a lot of stuff in this situation. But yeah, you guys need to get that 115 barking and then you add another 50 to it.

And you guys are not only going to pay off this debt, you're going to build an emergency fund. you're going to start building wealth. >> And that's that's that's where we're headed with this. So, let's go somewhere with this rather than simply survival and trying to find some hack so we don't have to deal with our disorganization like borrowing on your 401k or cashing out your 401k.

That doesn't make sense. You have enough money to get this paid off very very quickly. You should be debtree in under a year. >> Amen.

>> Maybe around six months depending on what you make at your new job. full-time job, big girl job, like get up 8 o'clock in the morning, go to work, come home five o'clock, >> you'll feel better. >> Yeah. Real job.

And it's not lunchroom job. Go do something. I don't care what you're doing. Customer service, I don't care what you're doing.

week. And Door Dash is a copout.

>> You go get it. Go get her done, girl.

It's going to be good for you.

Cynthia is in Panama City, Florida. Hi

Cynthia, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Doing better than I deserve.

How are you? >> Just the same. How can I help?

>> Great. Great. Well, I wanted to say first of all, I'm I'm kind of nervous. I hope that I can word this so that it's understood. And I wanted to say thank you for teaching me how to become a millionaire. I believe in the Bible. I believe your advice. And I believe I will become a millionaire. So, thank you for teaching me how to handle money now and when I become millionaire status.

>> Perfect. And so my situation, I did um

complete financial youth university recently and I'm doing the um every dollar budget, but I'm stalled out on baby step six. Um cuz I'm in a situation

now where I'm a caregiver for my parents, my elderly parents. They're 88 and 93. Uh we went through the hurricane

in 2018. It destroyed uh my house, their

house. My husband helped us put everything back together, but he's passed away. And now my plate is very full with being a caregiver, and I never want to go through having to rebuild another house by myself. My question is, should I sell the house, rent until I

can make my next move, and just bank the proceeds from the cell until I can get

out of this state?

Are you living with your elderly parents that you're giving care to >> partially? I'm there during the week and

then I come here to my home.

>> So you have a home you have a home separate and that's the home we're talking about.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so what's your current home worth?

>> Um 370ish.

>> And the reason you're selling it is because you don't want to rebuild it if there's another hurricane.

I'm afraid that another hurricane will come and not only will I have damage to my house, but my parents' house, evacuating them, finding a place for all of us, going through the the hell that we went through in 2018 alone.

>> You're going to do it again if you live in Florida. >> Yeah, most likely. I mean, it's a >> even if you rent, you're not going to escape it. >> How long have you lived in Florida? Your whole your whole life? I moved in 2013

from Texas. >> And so in 2013, this hurricane that came through last, was that your first big one?

>> Um, yes and no. Um, you know, I had

lived in Florida be previously, but it was far away from the coast. That was Opal. Opal was just a lot of wind and rain. Unless you plan on moving your elderly parents out of Florida and everybody sells and moves north, there's no avoiding this.

>> Yeah. I mean, moving into a rental doesn't avoid it. It just means that somebody else has to rebuild the house, but >> you still have to evacuate. You still have to >> still have to go through you still have to go through all the issue. So, um, no,

I I don't think that's a logical fear that I would deal with. I know it's been hell and I know you've been wounded by this and I'm hearing the pain in your voice. I'm sorry for that. But no, I would not liquidate a home >> unless I'm moving away from Florida.

>> Yeah.

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[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home in this weird wild world requires facts, not drama.

And there's a lot of drama and falsehoods floating around, particularly stuff like Tik Tok and so forth regarding real estate and what's really happening out there. You need real facts. We'll help you with that. We have a website called usousing market trends

that gives you simple facts so you'll know what's really going on. Check it out at ramseysolutions.com/market or click the notes in click in the show notes if you're on a podcast or YouTube and it'll put you right in there. Jessica is in Massachusetts. Hi Jessica, how are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um I just have uh a question. It's kind

of more of like advice on how to proceed

from here. Um, so just a little background, my husband and I, um, followed your steps. Um, we paid off all

of our debt and thank you for the leadership in that way to get us through

to where we are now. >> Congratulations. I'm proud of you.

>> Thank Thank you. Um, so we're having a

little bit of an issue with interpersonal relationships now that we are in a spot where we're kind of living

like nobody else like you have stated.

Um, and a lot of our friends and family

members are kind of making remarks

towards us when we do do something

because we have the means to do it. Um,

like we bought, you know, my my husband

bought his truck outright and you know

people are like, "Oh, it must be nice." >> Who who who are people?

>> Some of it's mostly um people like my

husband's friends. Um, >> he needs new friends.

>> That's >> That's called haterade. That's haterade.

That's >> You know what I'm Listen, real friends are exposed when two things happen.

>> Crisis and success.

>> Mhm. >> That's when you find out who your real friends are. >> So, your husband has found out that he has acquaintances.

>> Yeah. >> They're not friends. >> It's so true. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Friends know how to celebrate you.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. I I've got I've got a friend that hit, you know, made made an amazing

amount of money selling his business the other day and the only thing I can think of to say is way to go. I'm proud of you. >> Right. >> Cuz he's like my friend, >> right? Yeah. >> I I didn't I didn't roll my eyes and go all billionaires should be taxed,

>> you know? I mean, really, >> that's just dumb. >> Yeah. So, is that what they're saying? Must be nice. That's what they're saying to him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. in kind of like making like snide

remarks like that when you know when we talk about it. And I mean it's not like we didn't try like be when we first started to do your >> program. Number one, number one, we don't need to talk about it so much. We just need to do whatever we're going to do. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't need to be a lot of discussion.

But number two, if somebody does that, they get about two of those and third strike they're out. >> Yeah. I mean, he could if if it really if you really think it's a friend, which the behavior doesn't suggest that, but if it is something that you're like, man, I really want to see, then just ask him about it. That's what I would do. If I had a friend that I'd been friends with for years and they started with this business, I would believe in the

friendship enough to say, "Hey, when you say that, what do you mean?" Because if it if the tables were reversed, I'd be happy for you. And I would just ask them >> and then you're going to learn a lot by their response or he will. and then you can take it from there.

>> But I think what you've got is you're not real friends is what I think.

>> Okay. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. >> Yeah. I think you're just going to find out. I mean I you know uh we found out

during uh co we had a whole bunch of negative press and we found out who our friends were. >> Mhm. >> And we found out when we're very successful and we get in the Hall of Fame and we have another number one bestselling book, we find out who our friends are. Um, but the number of times I'm going to tolerate someone calling up and going, "Well, look at you."

You know, I'm going to be going, "Uh, well, look at you, moron." I mean, seriously. >> I mean, I'm going to give I want to give a little bit of grace for sometimes people have moments where they do not show up as their best self. I mean, I'm just >> Yeah, but I'm saying I call them You're saying call them out. You're going to be a little more gentle in calling them out than I am.

>> I don't know about gentle, but I am going to call them out. >> Yeah. I'm going to definitely I'm going to be going, "Hey, you know that that what you're doing right there is just dumb." >> Yeah. >> Don't do that.

And we're not you know, we're not going to be doing this anymore. So, not not if you want to hang around here. So, you know, and if it's family, then you just limit the amount of time you're around them. Just go, I can't hang out here.

It's too much too much negativity. >> Yeah. >> Uh you know, all you're doing is trashing everything I've been working hard for.

>> Oh, >> that one pisses me off.

>> That's your That's your >> That's like a hot button. I'm like Ly's got Ly's got work overalls on what Ly's

got. >> Ly's got calluses. Ly's got hours spent

while you were sitting on your butt drinking beer watching Netflix. That's what Ly's got. I got your Lucky. Okay, >> that gets me Ly's butt.

>> I I Man, that gets me going right there.

You're so lucky. Luck didn't have squat to do with this, darling.

>> It was not luck at all. God's blessings I'll go with. Okay. And my hard work.

There is some corn in the field because we freaking planted some corn. Luck had nothing to do with it. Okay. Hello.

>> I can tell this really bothers you.

>> Yeah, this one bothers me. I can't stand it. It's like >> and it it's even it's even people out there just in the comments and stuff. I don't read the comments and junk, but that I used to get like in when I used to uh inter face with people on Twitter when it was new and you could argue with people back then.

It was kind of fun >> and I would just go at them, you know, cuz it's so fun. And then but then but yeah, >> you know what I hate? It's two. It's a it's a combination of two.

When people say, "Oh, are you still doing your little budget or whatever?" >> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. Demeaning. Yeah. Demeaning.

>> Are you still doing that little business? >> Still doing that little Yeah, I'm still It's got, you know, I got a little million dollars from it.

>> And so, matter of fact, I got two little

million dollars. >> There's two of those little million dollars over there from that. And might be three soon of those little billion dollars. And that Yeah, but we're still working on that little Yeah, you're right. That's so demeaning. I hate that.

It's like, aren't pat you on the head?

Aren't you cute? Oh, you doing that little >> Aren't you cute? >> Still working on that little >> You still doing that little Dave Ramsey cult thing? >> Oh, >> yeah. That one. That's That's just That's hilarious. It's funny. So, here's the deal. The the the Catholics have a wonderful saying. They say that envy is one of the seven deadly sins.

>> Wow. Yeah. >> And so, jealousy is I want what you have.

Envy is I don't think I can have what you have, so I don't want you to have it. >> That's diabolical. >> It's diabolical. It's evil at its core.

>> That is. >> And so that that's the kind of stuff you run into, Jessica, as you start to win.

But it does. It separates the sheep from the goats. It separates the wheat from the tears. >> And it pretty obvious. I mean, I got I got >> poison over here. And I got fruit over here. >> And so I'm going to hang out with the fruit and the poison's going to have to go away. >> Yeah. Cuz they can't cheer you on.

>> You are opting out of my life by being a butt. I'm serious. I mean, it's just how this works. That's right. We'll talk about it depending on how long the friendship quote unquote been going on.

Be how how gentle we are or how much we talk about it. But if it's a casual thing, I'll just casually not be available anymore.

>> That's right. >> I'm casually not going to show up at your next deal. I'm saying that cuz I don't want to hang out with a bunch of goats. >> That's so good. >> Not the deal. So, yeah. >> It is disappointing though when that happens. >> It does. It does aggravate you, but um and I I'm still capable obviously of getting aggravated about it, but yeah, you're so lucky.

>> You're so lucky. So lucky. Must be nice.

>> Yeah, man. >> Yeah. You just just line up behind that luck and think about the number of hours, the number of airline miles. Oh my god, the amount of time I spent in a jet >> flying and going through freaking TSA and all man, the stuff we've done, the stuff, the work, the hotel rooms. Gross.

Grotesque.

Gross. Instead of sleeping in your own bed. You know, you're so lucky.

I don't think so.

[Music]

Heat.

[Applause] [Music]

Heat.

Our

[Music]

[Music] scripture of the day, Luke 6:37. Do not judge and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned.

Forgive and you will be forgiven.

Benjamin Franklin said, "Creditors have better memories than debtors."

This is true. H Marsha's in Spokane,

Washington. Hi, Marcia. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm just groovy.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> Hey, um yeah, my husband passed away this last uh winter or spring.

>> I'm sorry. >> And I'm Yeah, it was kind of a bummer, but >> yeah. um trying to get things put together financially. You know, fortunately, um I don't have a problem

in that we have money, which is nice,

>> but trying to figure out how to be wisest with what I've got. And um I've

been listening to you and um you know,

hearing about I think it has turned the IRAs into um to Ross and wondering if

that would be a good choice for me. Um,

what I don't know if it helps you to know what I've got going.

>> How How old are you?

>> I am 60. I'll be 67 in a week.

>> 67. All right. And how how much uh were

you left in IRA?

>> Um, well, I got 1.2 in SEP.

>> Mhm. >> Uh 300 in an IRA.

And then I've got um right now 420

sitting in a high

3.75. >> Mhm.

>> And um debts are about 50,000 on our

house >> and that's at about 3.75 also.

>> And then we have a rental in Huntington Beach that um we use for our kids who

are missionaries down there and other missionaries to live in. And that one we owe about 725 on.

>> Mhm.

>> And it does not create an income because you furnish it to missionaries.

>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's just

>> um kind of on its own.

>> I have income um for

your last uh conversation with because

uh we had years tell us. Oh, >> you're cutting out a little bit, Marca. I didn't hear all that. You have an income. That's what >> um uh I have an income of social security of 3,700 from my husband.

>> Mhm. >> And then about 30,000 a month from our

network marketing business.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Okay. So, you got plenty to live on. Obviously, >> I got plenty to live on. Yeah. Yeah.

>> All right. >> And figure out how to be the wisest.

>> Yeah. >> With the other stuff. >> Well, the no-brainer is take some of the high yield savings and pay off your mortgage. >> Mhm. the 50,000 >> like tonight. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's a no-brainer. Uh the other two the other two areas I do want to work on longterm but none of them are a panic is I want to start get with your Smart Investor Pro or whoever's helping you with your investments and start talking about moving the IRAs and the SEPs gradually into Roth because

whatever is not there when you hit 72 and a half you're going to have required minimum distributions >> and you make enough money from the network marketing stuff to uh pay the

taxes that are created if you move some

money over systematically every year for the next several years. Because if it's all in Roth, it's growing from that point forward tax-free and it passes to your kiddos if you've got them or your heirs tax-free and no

required distributions on any of it. If it's in a traditional, it's going to have required distributions over 10 years on inherited and required minimum

distributions if you're if you're alive and it's, you know, paying out to you, required to pay out to you. So, they're going to get their tax money. It's just a matter of when and what it looks like.

>> Here's another thing I didn't throw in there on that 300 in the IRA.

>> That's actually from an old IRA that he had with um Shriners through whatever.

But um so I have three years to decide what I want to do with that. If I want to continue it where it is, move it into something else is I don't really understand that. >> I don't know what it's in why you would have anything that's three years. What a shrine. >> Well, in three within the three years um it's in transame I think is what um does

it but within I got a letter and within three years I need to decide what my final place I want it to land.

>> Okay. Yes, I do. Do you have someone that's advising you on your on your investments?

>> Uh, not really.

>> Okay. So, jump on ramsolutions.com and find a couple of the Smart Investor pros and interview them in the area.

We're not in the investment business, but these are people that we have vetted that give advice that sounds like we did it, like we said it, okay? And um that's

why we're willing to put our name beside them and they have the heart of a teacher which is most important because I want you to understand everything you're doing or don't do it. Okay.

>> But basically I see two things three things I want to do. One I want want to pay off your house today. Two is I want to begin a systematic move of the IRA

and the SEP into good growth stock mutual funds and Roth IAS. And I think you can pay the taxes out of your huge income because you're making $360,000 a

year and I got a feeling you don't spend anywhere near that.

>> You're right. >> Okay. And so you're right.

>> Yeah. And so you know that G if you spend $100,000 a year on taxes out of that and you're able to move all this stuff into Roth, it's really a good move. And I'm going to begin to do that.

It doesn't have to happen immediately, but put a system on that. And the third thing is I got to deal with that $725,000 mortgage.

>> Yeah. >> Mortgage has got to go away at some point. And I don't know when what you're going to do to make that go away, whether you're going to use some of your investments and some of your income to make it go away >> or whether you're going to look at selling it. >> Yeah. How long I mean, what did you think? When's that going to play out till having other people stay there? Um

well, as long as the Lord calls their ministry to be there, they they head up a ministry called Circuit Writers from Youth with a Mission. Um Okay. Down there. Yeah. And that's something we've been committed to >> to uh >> Yeah. And what's that propert what's that property worth?

>> About 2 million. >> Okay. Well, I mean, another option another option is find a million and a quarter property >> that you pay cash for, >> right? >> And move them into that. sell that and make and move them into that. That might be another option. >> That's a great idea. >> You know, something like because that's not a bad that's not exactly sluming it.

>> So, um >> Yeah. No, no, it's not. They have they live downstairs and then upstairs is a mother-in-law and they have four staff members live upstairs.

>> Um and pay rent also up there.

>> Okay. >> Which I don't know. I mean, >> kind of playing around. I don't care how you do it, but some whether you move to a million and a quarter million and a half and you pay cash for that, but I don't want you sitting there at 70 75 years old >> with a $700,000 mortgage for a missionary property.

I want you to pay it off, >> okay? >> Somehow or another cuz cuz that I want that stability and peace for you because you're being so generous >> and u and I appreciate what you're doing and I'm familiar with Youth with a Mission, very familiar. And so I know exactly what's going on there. And you know, I I think what you're doing is awesome.

So keep it up.

>> And uh it could be that we Okay, we got 420 in a high yield savings. Uh we take 50 out, that's 370 towards 7 and a

quarter, that's only 300,000. You may just pay it off out of your income.

Reduce it by that high yield savings and then pay it off out of your income. Um, but I'm not going to be sitting there with a high yield savings account and a bunch of mortgages. That that money needs to be used to start clearing stuff or some other strategy. But those are the three areas if I were in your shoes that I would be working on. I'm sorry for your loss. Um, and um, but it sounds like you guys have done an absolutely wonderful job uh,

creating income and taking good care of it. So, congratulations. And um

obviously you and he together have left you in a really good spot.

>> Yeah. >> So important. >> That's good. So yeah, three things.

Let's clean up those separas and move them into Roths. Let's pay off your house tonight and then let's start trying to figure out how we're going to pay off the property in Huntington or how we're going to uh shift it to a different property to where we end up net net debtree.

>> And so I mean I don't care if you just pay it off and keep it. It's not a bad idea. I think that's kind of what I'd probably do. >> I'd throw 370 of that high yield savings at it >> and then, you know, $30,000 a month coming in. >> I'm gonna just chunk that puppy and be done with it in about a year and a half, two years. I don't want you hitting 70 years old with a mortgage.

>> That that's what I don't want. Even if you got a million bucks laying over there, I still don't want you having a mortgage. >> So that that we got to work towards that. That's the direction. Good question. Good question, Marca. Thank you for calling. That puts us Hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 87. If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset | September 8, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q79cWhv6m9U) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:05 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

The phone number88255225LE88255225.

A daddy for the second time. I'm sure you've talked about it this week, but you haven't talked about it with me, so I want to give a nod. You look amazingly

refreshed for a guy who's getting no sleep. >> I did the cucumbers on the eyes and everything you told me to do again.

>> So, thank you. The advice works. >> All my facial tips, folks. Uh, it'll sneak up on you. Well, congratulations, my friend. You ready to go? >> I'm pumped. >> All right, let's go to Joey in California. Joey, how can we help?

>> Hello. How you guys doing? >> We're doing great. George is a little sleepy, but he's easy on me, Joey.

>> He's alert.

>> That's awesome. All right. Uh, the question that I had for you, uh, I've been following the show, trying to get out of debt as much as I can. The last two things that I have on my plate is my car loan. Uh it's 28,353

to be exact. And then I owe city tax, sales tax, uh and I'm on a payment plan for 31, uh774.

My question being, I have an offer from the dealer for a trade in uh for 25,000

on my car. Uh I don't at the moment have

the money to pay the 3,000 um because

I'm not trying to take money out of my sales tax account and all the stuff that I'm going to owe for the end of the year. Uh, so I just want to know what's best in this situation to keep moving forward.

>> What other debt do you have?

>> That's it. I just have the car and sales tax. Um, that that's that's literally

everything. >> And what do you make?

>> Uh, I run so 80 to 100. It fluctuates,

but I have my own company. I do screen printing, embroidery. >> What if you had the money? Um, the whole

enchilada, the extra 3,000. What if you

had all that set aside? What would you do for a car if you took this deal?

>> That's my other question. Um, you don't have any money for that either.

>> No, no, I don't have any other money for that. I could I could go and borrow again, but that's exactly what I don't want to do. >> No, no, that's not where it's not where I was going. I just wanted to see where we stood if you had money set aside for a beater. >> Um, do you have anything in savings?

>> Uhhuh. >> Um, $1,000. Okay. Yeah, I have the $1,000 and um I do have a little bit in my um

stock account, but it's not much. It's another five 600 bucks.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, you're half there.

>> Stock account. >> A stock account. He's got some single stocks. >> Sorry. I heard stock and I was like, that's kind of fun. >> That's different. >> Yeah, different. That's in the top.

>> Okay. So, here's the deal. The tradein offer is way less than you would get if you sold it privately. So, could you sell it privately and get 28 or 29 30 for it? I I've posted it. It's been on

the market for about five months now.

I've been for I've been listening to the show since the be uh the beginning of the year. So that's that's what I first tried and um it hasn't sold. I just think that everybody's in the same situation where it's a soft market.

>> Yeah. This guy What kind of car is it?

>> It's a 2021 Grand Cherokee. Um yeah.

>> What do you have it listed for?

>> I have it listed for 28.

>> Okay. And you've checked Kelly Kelly Kelly Blue Book private party value and you're right on the money there or a little under. >> I'm I'm right on the money as far as the privates though. Um the trade in I've gotten as low because I've shopped it to many dealers. I've gotten as low as 19,000 and for whatever reason this dealer is offering 25. So that's why I'm

>> Is it contingent on you getting a new car from them?

>> Because sometimes they'll try to hose you in and go, "Well, you'll have to get a new car payment from us to do the trade at this value.

Yeah, I I made sure of it. I I um made sure that it wasn't any other terms.

It's just straight 25 and that's it.

>> Okay. Could you go to your local credit union and get a small loan for the difference that you owe maybe plus a little bit more to get you something to drive around in for now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was the other thing that I had thought is cuz I I was going to, you know, just take a little bit out of my sales tax and and pay myself back on it and get a beater, but then I just thought, you know, I I do use the car a lot for deliveries for the company. >> Well, on my screen here, it says, should I lease a car? You haven't mentioned that part yet.

>> Yeah. So, that was the other question.

Instead of carrying the debt, um, and I

know the answer from you guys. I just wanted to hear it. Maybe that will help me get out of that mindset, but >> No. >> Yeah.

>> So, let's save her all when somebody says, "I know what you're going to say, but I want to hear it." Let's just save some time. No. >> Okay. >> All right.

So, George, thoughts. We answer calls of how we would deal with this if we were in your shoes. And I would be going down to my credit union and trying to get a loan for, let's say, $9,000. That'll cover your three and give you six to go get something off Facebook Marketplace that'll get you from A to B.

>> Okay? And that avoids you leasing a brand new car. That avoids you taking on another car payment. It avoids taking on more debt.

>> Yeah. >> So, we're much closer to getting you debtree. >> What's the car payment on this current car?

>> Uh 514. 514 is the car payment and gas

I'm spending around three and then the insurance is around 125.

>> That's great. So, then you're debtree. you got an extra 500 bucks to throw at your emergency fund and savings >> and your tax liability.

>> And with the income you make, if you do George's plan, uh you should be able to pay off that small loan to the credit union pretty quickly. Get after it.

>> And the other thing is in the next 30 days, seven grand is going to slip through your hands. Am I wrong?

>> No. Yeah. >> So, you have you'll have $3,000 to cover the difference in the next 30 days. That's right. So, there's no like crazy rush on this. If you can just really live on nothing for the next 30 days, 60 days, you'll have the money to to sell this car outright.

>> Yeah. And and that's what I've been doing kind of, you know, I haven't been doing anything crazy. The the number has been going down and down and I think that I'm just in the mindset going crazy trying to get completely out of debt by the end of the year. That's my goal. Um, so my second question to your guys's answer is, um, so it's okay to get that

second loan even though I'm pulling out more money, uh, but getting out of this car. >> Yeah. You're not necessarily pulling out more money. What you're doing is reducing $31,000 of debt down to nine.

>> Okay. >> And so it's kind of like a debt payoff plan. And then that 9,000 you're going to attack aggressively. But I but what I heard is is if you're just patient, you're you're intentional, there's only debt you have, let's get that budget.

Let's in the next 30 days, you've got that extra three grand. So then you can take the deal.

>> Okay? >> You see what I'm saying? Like you can take I think that's actually a pretty good deal >> because for five months you've you've uh Yeah. I'd go to them and say, "Guys, here's my deal. I'm in. Can we agree to this? Will you hold that price? Well, you still give me the 25 um you know, 3

weeks from now when I get my next check or whatever. And now you get 25 for it.

You you've got the additional three. So, we're not going down to the credit union, you know. Uh or are you suggesting he still do that for a beater? >> Well, he needs something to get around A to B. I don't know what your situation is, how close you are to work.

>> Wait 60 days. I mean, I I think you have to look at everything. And so, the the car dealers, they're they're a little bit desperate right now. That market is soft. So, the reason they're giving you such a good offer on this is because they're just looking for transactions.

>> Yeah. >> They obviously think they can sell it.

If they're going to give you 25 for it, there's enough margin in it. Because I don't think people realize this, George.

It's such a razor thin margin in the car business. The way they make the money is the financing. They don't make a lot of money on the actual transaction. >> They might make a few hundred bucks off the transaction.

They'll make a few thousand if they can get you to finance it long term. >> That's what they see. They see your car as a as a good car and they can make more money on it. So, I don't know.

See if they'll honor the price in 60 days just as an option. You've got two ideas here from George. >> Get resourceful, man. But make sure you take debt off the table as an option of going to lease a car or getting a new payment.

>> Pretty interesting. Puts it out there. 5 months, no bites on a nice grand Cherokee. Tells you where we're at in the economy.

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This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. All right. As a society, we tend to overshare sometimes. We tell everybody everything.

And as fun as it can be to talk to random people about all the stuff going on in our lives, when you need real help with relationships or clinical issues like stress or anxiety or depression, random people probably don't have the right answers. You often need guidance from a licensed therapist who follows a strict code of conduct and who's been trained to sit with hurting people. And that's why I recommend my friends at BetterHelp.

That means that no matter what you're facing, chances are they've got somebody who specializes in exactly what you're struggling with. BetterHelp is totally online and that makes it easy to fit therapy into your wild schedule. To get

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>> All right, Sabrina is up next in Bentonville, Arkansas. Sabrina, how can we help?

>> Thank you so much for taking my call.

Um, I am really good at saving money, but I'm not good at making money. So, I'm trying to figure out if I need a new career path and if I should get a certification, go back to school or something. >> Um, then the other part to it is I also

feel like I can't afford to work. Um

because I am currently receiving some government benefits and I desperately want to be independent, but it's hard to make enough money.

>> Got it. >> To make up for what I would lose.

>> Okay. Got it. Well, this is fun. I This is a good day for you because we're going to talk about work options, but you also got the uh budgeting uh guru to

my right here who can help out. So, this will be fun. Okay, let's get into this.

Uh are you single? Are you in are you married? What is your relationship status? >> I'm a single mom. >> You're a single mom. Okay. What is your income? Tell us what your income consists of. How much is it and what does it consist of?

>> So, um I have been trying to build a

business and last year was the first year we turned a profit and it was only maybe $10,000.

>> Okay. Um, I do get a little bit under

$1,000 of disability a month and then,

um, I receive some child support.

>> Okay. So, what is the, uh, let's get real numbers here. We're going to put the business aside because that's just not enough to even count at this point.

Uh, just under $1,000. How close to

$1,000 are we on the disability?

>> 957.

>> 957. Okay. And then what's the child support?

750. >> Is that consistent?

>> It is. >> So, he's doing a good job there. Okay.

So, that is uh $1,700 a month cuz the

10,000 is just again I'm not even going to try to count that. What is the business?

>> Um I make specialty um dogouses.

>> And And you make the I mean this is like cutting, sawing wood, hammering together. Is that right?

>> Yes. Wow. What is And may I ask, what is your disability payment for?

>> Um, a few different things. Um, I had um

a brain tumor and um a lot of mental

health struggles.

>> Okay. >> So, I'm kind of I was excited. I was getting over those things and I thought I could hold down a job. >> Yeah. Um but actually just like a few weeks ago I started having a lot of uh heart issues now. >> Oh bless you. >> So um I I just don't know what

>> does the physical labor aggravate any of this? >> Yeah, >> absolutely. I mean that that's why it has been so slow growing with this.

>> So we need to find a whole new career slash business for you. Yeah.

>> That won't affect your health. But before we get into that, let's look at if you were to get a full-time job. I'm assuming the 957 goes away. That's what you were addressing, correct?

>> Yes. And also, we get MAP benefits and

like with that I get free uh free phone

and cheap internet. Like there's just a host of things. >> Okay. Well, let's give George and I that picture well >> because I I can help you get really great phone service for $20 a month.

I can help you get great internet for 50 bucks a month. So, if we're talking, hey, I'm going to lose 200 bucks of benefits and 957. Great. We can help you go make two grand a month and cover everything.

>> That's right. So, here's here's the deal, Sabrina. So, the the physical stuff is a challenge, okay?

many people who are in your shoes where they feel like it is such a crazy risk to let go of a minimal benefit in order

to actually make quite quite, you know, a bit more money. And so, you've got to understand, it's very simple math. If we start making we start bringing home three or four grand a month then we're not worried about those benefits. Would you agree with that statement?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So we also know that you can't do something that's very very physical. So pretty soon if not right away we are going to at least press pause on this side hustle or this business that involves manual labor. We agree with that statement too. Correct.

>> That's a hard one, but I I see your point. Yes. Well, it's not my this isn't like my opinion. This is if to George's

point, if if the physical labor is causing issues, then it then we need to do something. Correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, um it also feels then that a

job that where you're on your feet all day long might also be problematic. Is that true?

Um, right now what I'm going through it

is I, you know, again, I was hoping I was feeling better and then got hit with the >> I get it. Hey, listen, hang in there.

This is just another storm. You've been through worse. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's talk about remote work.

What have you done in the past? Do you have any prior work history?

>> Um, I've done some direct sales. I

worked on a ranch for years. Um, like I

have worked experience. I've always worked. I've just never made good money.

>> Okay. Well, again, we we'll work to that. We just got to get steady work and then we figure out how to grow. Okay.

>> So, >> Okay. >> Um, my question is,

is there anything that you did on the ranch or in the direct sales that immediately spits out an idea to you to say, "Hey, this I can do."

Um, I mean both of them I loved and um with

direct sales. >> What were you selling? >> Good at selling. >> What were you selling? >> Um, with Mary Kay um and so I'm very

familiar with skincare and I have looked into getting my cosmetology license.

>> Well, right now we're not getting any kind of licenses because we don't have any money. >> Okay. Uh, how much is a cosmetology license?

um after appeal grants about 6,000.

>> Yeah, we just that's not realistic for you right now. Okay. Now, can we build up to that? Is that a target in the future? Yes. But what has to be true in

your health? And then, you know, how much money do we need to be able to uh assemble in order to save $6,000? That's

going to take some time. So, we want to just like the baby steps and get out of debt. We need some baby steps to get you some better income. Here's what I think.

I think you ought to be looking at anything and everything as it relates to some type of online sales or even customer service that pays well because if you can sell well then you can do customer service and over the phone uh

or online chat agent I would be looking because here's what's true about those jobs those jobs have high turnover because some other people are looking to you know do something else but in your case I think it could be great because it represents stability and we want to get to a point George where we we we

bring in enough income to where we're not worried about the uh $957 in

benefits and the $750 in child support is just that it's gravy for your

children. Uh George, I want to bring you in. You've been listening here. I I think this is remote work because of her health and I also think that those opportunities are out there due to turnover. Your thoughts? You've been listening. >> I'm I'm trying to figure out the child care situation. How many hours could you work per week?

>> Well, that's another issue. Um,

I have her every other week. So, when I

don't have her, you know, my schedule is very flexible. Um, when she's in school,

really, there's about 5 hours by the time I drive and pick her up and, you know, do all those things. >> It's fine. We got to make the best of it. It's not an issue. This is this is a

reality. See, when someone says this is an issue, that means, "Oh, there's another limitation." No, no, no, no, no.

Like, you're a single mom and you've overcome a lot of physical stuff. You can do this because you have to do this.

This isn't an issue. This makes it challenging. But if I can work five hours a day, then I'm going to work five hours a day. Yes.

>> Will I be able to make enough money though? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> To make up for the benefits.

>> Yes. And if you crunch the numbers for pretty much any retail job, you'll find out very quickly that your quality of life will go up if you get outside of the system if you have the ability to work. >> That's the key. I'm not mad at these government programs, but they cause people to stay stuck in these cycles where they think, "This is it.

This is as good as my life is going to get. I can only save up to $2,000 or else they cut all my benefits." And I want to show you a life where you have agency, where you have more control. And that's going to take some work. It's not going to be easy.

>> Yeah. And and by the way, don't just take our word for it, Sabrina. Run the numbers. Run 25 hours a week at 15 bucks

an hour or 30 hours a week at 20 bucks an hour. Run real numbers so that you get out of this mindset that I'm stuck with this benefit. Uh you actually can do this and you have to do this. We're we're cheering you on and you can do this. George, should we do a little Every Dollar. Hang on the line. We're going to send you our Every Dollar budgeting app, the premium version to help you through this.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Tyler's up in Orlando, Florida. Tyler, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys. Um, one of the things that I've been struggling with, I'm on baby step number four. I just started investing.

And I have been investing, but one of the things that's been kind of uh hard for me is investing in a Roth IRA or a

401k, any of those retirement funds. Uh,

and the reason for that is because honestly I I don't think I'll live that long and I I don't know how to break out of that. >> Do you have a terminal illness?

>> No. No, sir.

>> So, okay, I'll bite. How old are you?

>> This isn't a money question. You've got some sort of weird psychology thing going on that you probably need to get some help with because you just literally like I just don't know. I mean, what what age do you what age are you right now? And what age are you confident saying, "Hey, George, can I think I'll make it this far?" >> I'm 24. Um, I don't know. I That's part

of the thing is like I I don't know that

I won't make it or anything. It's just something kind of blocking me that like, hey, you know, like 65, that's a long time away. >> Tyler, welcome to life. Uh, this is

really going to freak you out. Can I get personal with you for a second? Can I Can I be personal? Sure. Okay. Uh, Tyler, I'm 51.

And I feel like I got a lot of left to give, but I have no idea if I make it

through to midnight tonight. Fair.

>> Fair. >> So, if I spend time thinking about that all the time, I'm not going to have issues with 401ks. I'm going to have issues with everything. Yes.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> You're 24. Uh I hate to be so harsh,

>> but uh Tyler, you are aware that you're going to die, right?

>> I do know that. Yes. Yes. And and and you are aware that you have no idea when that's going to happen, right?

>> Yes, I I do know that, too. >> So, I think you're focused on on on just the the what I don't know if this is a stage of your life that you're in. I don't know you well enough to give you some sort of analysis. >> A quarter life crisis. Well, I guess it depends. It could be midlife depending on how long he plans to live. Yeah. We don't know. So, are you single, Tyler?

>> Uh yes, sir. >> Okay. This might change once you have a family. I don't know. But there there's a piece of this where I go the heart of this is I don't think planning for the future is worth it cuz I don't know what the future is going to hold.

>> Right. >> Yeah. That that's kind of what I feel.

>> Well, by the way, by the way, not crazy.

I don't think you're nuts, by the way.

But let's flip that. We don't plan for the future and then say, "Boy, that's silly. Why would we plan for something that we have no idea what it is?" If you leave it to that, it's pretty good philosophy, right? But that's not what we do. We plan for it so that if we make

it, we can actually make it. Correct?

>> Yeah. >> Like what happens if you go, "Well, I'm 24. I'm not going to plan for the future. I'm going I'm going to live like I'm dying. It's a great Tim McGrath song, you know?" Um and uh and then I

make it to my 40s and I make it to my

50s and I make it to my 60 and then I wake up one day and I go, I got nothing and I and I can't work any longer and now I'm really in trouble. Gee whiz, I wish I had a plan for this.

>> That's the flip side. George, what would you say to this? Because I don't think there's anybody better suited to address this neurosis than you. >> Well, there's a lot of angles here, but the one I keep going back to is there's a much higher likelihood that you retire

broke than you dying at a young age. And

that's what we're seeing right now is a retirement crisis because people went, "Well, I'll just save later. Right now, I have other things to do. I got debt to pay. I don't know how to invest.

I'm scared. Whatever the reason is, they don't invest and therefore they don't have anything later. Yeah. And so you reap what you sew.

If you plant corn later on, you're going to have some corn when the harvest comes. And if you don't, don't be surprised when you're 61, broke, working a job you hate, going, I didn't think I'd live this long. Uhoh.

>> And so the there's a lot of other questions around this that makes me think that maybe you just need some some purpose in your work, uh vision for the future, and you're just feeling a little bit lost right now. >> I wonder, are you a person who over analyzes everything?

>> Uh definitely. For sure.

>> Are you in debt right now?

>> No, I paid off all my debts. Yes, sir.

>> Why would you do that if we don't know what the future holds? Why not just get as much debt as you can cuz we'll just die one day. >> Tricky Joy. That's a good point. You got it. >> That's a good point. >> I see this. Why did you pay off debt?

Why did you pay off your debt?

>> Uh, I mean, just because I knew I need like I I was living horribly in in every way possible and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And so, >> yeah, but why not rack up a ton of credit cards, second mortgages, let's just go to the hilt because we're living for the moment, man. I don't know what tomorrow holds. Why not do that?

I I guess because I do, you know, I do

want a better future. And so I guess I'm

making an assumption that there is a future.

>> I know. >> When you go to bed tonight, you're assuming you're going to wake up tomorrow.

>> And I'd rather you wake up with more money than you had the day before. And it's not that you need to hoard wealth.

Um I see, you know, like part of this is are you worried that you're not going to get to enjoy the money?

Yeah, it's, you know, if I if I put it into something like mutual funds or an like index ETF, if I needed that at an

earlier time, I'm not going to get all those penalties that I would take if I took it out at full. >> I love this. Well, there's a better a much better solution. The solution is not, well, let me not invest. The solution is let me invest in retirement and start to create a bridge account that's in a taxable brokerage that you could use before you're 60. Let's say you wanted to early retire, start a business, pursue some hobbies at 50.

You're, well, I don't want to eat all the penalties. Well, you can use this bridge account to cover those expenses, >> but you're not going to be able to do that if you don't start investing today.

>> So, are you completely debtree with a fully funded emergency fund?

>> Yes, sir. >> Great. And how much do you make?

>> Uh, around 4,000 a month.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, I work for a rehabilitation center.

What do you want to do long term? What does 44y old Tyler >> want?

>> Oops, sorry. I actually really like this. Uh, I'm being promoted here pretty soon to um >> Great. >> Run over a intensive outpatient unit.

>> Great. >> And that's that's something I I'm I absolutely am so excited to do. I can't stand it. >> What's the uh Well, that's great news.

What's the health history of your family?

How long do they live? >> Uh, fine.

The only person in my direct family that's died is my grandfather from skin cancer. >> How old was he? >> Uh he was 68.

>> Okay. So again, I really believe I I was

not kidding earlier when I said therapy if this stuff starts to grip you to where you're making nonsensical decisions. So for one thing, you you believe in paying off debt, >> but you don't know why it makes sense to save money for when you're in your 70s.

>> None of this makes you a freak. having a little fun with this. And George and I kind of just walked you into some corner so you could see how your logic wasn't really playing out well. But at the same time, if you've got a real fear on this and this is coming from somewhere, talking to somebody's great, >> you know, and just kind of let's let's just get me what what's going on here?

Because I can tell you this. There's a fear and I'm not going to unpack all this on the show, but in five minutes, we could George and I can figure out pretty quickly what is this under this undercurrent of fear? Where is it coming from? because that's what's driving the very question that you're asking today.

So, be okay diving into that.

>> Yeah.

>> See how this affects our money? Our fears affect our future.

>> Because if you got fears and doubts about the future and you're feeling hopeless about it, why would you invest?

I agree. There's no reason to.

>> But if you feel like, man, I got a life to live. I could live until I'm 90. I want to make an impact. I want to leave legacy.

I want to have a family. I want to leave them inheritance. Then I'm going to get to investing. And so what I would do if I were you, Tyler, I would fully fund a Roth IRA for the year.

And then any money beyond that, you can throw into an index fund and a brokerage account and start to build this bridge account. From 24 to 65 or until 50, you're going to have a big old pile of money to enjoy long before your golden years. >> You know why I want a bunch of money when I'm in my 70s? >> Cuz you want a pickle ball court in your backyard.

>> I'm going to go Yes, as a matter of fact.

my geriatric friends on a pickle ball cruise. >> You know what? You're going to be the guy with a boat. I want you to be my friend with a boat because I don't I'm not gonna buy one. But Ken in his little yacht with his little captain's hat.

>> You know what? You got me pegged wrong.

I like all the boat outfits, but I think I'd rent the boat, not buy the boat.

>> He's all about the fashion.

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[Music]

Hey, how you doing on your baby steps?

Are you staying on track? Have you lost a little momentum? Uh, one of the things I love that we offer is we've got a fun little quiz uh uh uh for you on your uh

baby steps. just just a few minutes and

uh it's in the show notes and uh it's actually are you on track with the baby steps is the name of the quiz and just takes a few minutes and lets you know where you are and then give you a personalized plan on how to maybe keep the momentum uh or to get back on that momentum train. So check that out. Zach is up in New York. Zack, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, I appreciate you taking my call today. How you guys doing? >> Good. How are you sir?

>> Good, good. So, you know, everybody's calling in. Um, so my wife, she picked up one of Dave Ramsey's books about four years ago and we started doing the seven

baby steps. Um, so you we were lucky enough and we did them slightly out of order um because I have um $65,000 worth

of federal loans um for school, but I am

in the the public service loan forgiveness program and I've been in there for eight and a half years at this point. So, we sort of skipped around a

little bit. Um, and we were lucky enough to pay off our house last week.

>> Whoa. Congrats.

>> I wouldn't call that luck. Like, no one paid it off for you. You went a sweep state. >> I'm dying to know. I think America's dying to know. What order are we in right now? So, if we went to baby step six, where what have we not done?

>> So, um I'm just And I have the list up.

We did we did step one. Um, we have all debt paid off. We paid our cars off. We paid off my uh my private student loans which was about 75,000.

Um I paid off both cars. We have about

six months of our emergency fund um

fully funded.

>> Um >> you did baby step four. You're investing 15%.

>> So that's where we uh me and my wife are both at about 10% each.

>> Okay. Um, and so far together, um, she

has about 145 saved up in retirement and

I have, uh, 75,000

in, um, my 401k and then another 28,000

in a in a pension. So once that pens, if

I were, you know, continue with the pension, um, I guess when I retire, I would get about $626 a month. Um, and that was one of my

questions I was sort of leaning towards.

I didn't know cuz you know sometimes pensions you know they sort of expire sometimes

or sometimes they don't follow through by the time you're that age. So you know I I invested 28,000 into the S. So I

didn't know if that would be a good idea to remain in with the pension or if you

guys would recommend maybe moving that over to like a Roth IRA if that's even an option. >> Yeah. I mean, you'll do much better investing on your own outside of that pension cuz the returns are horrible because of how conservative they have to be and you have no control. So, it dies with you versus a Roth IRA, a 401k that can actually continue down the family line. So, there's a few things on the pension, but your question today is it revolving around the remaining student loan debt?

>> Yeah. So part of it is that and then the other question is what do we do moving forward since we like I said since we you we worked hard we got the house paid off. >> Um I wanted to hear from you guys perspective I guess about the student loan debt because I know um >> what is the question? What what I we got enough information. What is your direct question? >> Okay. Um, the direct question is, should I continue with my current payments of

$38 a month until I hit the 10-year mark

in hopes that, you know, it will be forgiven as my I have my 10 years of 120

payments. >> How much hope you got?

>> Well, I mean, I as of recently, I've had about five or six colleagues that have gotten those forgiven um who I work with. So, that that's the most hope I've got in a little while. Um, prior to that, I haven't heard too many people get forgiven. >> Exactly. >> And you're you're eight and a half years in out of 10. So, you're like, "Hey, man. I've already this is a sunk cost fallacy. I'm already this deep into it.

Do I just ride it out and see what happens?" >> Yeah. >> Do you have 65 grand sitting in a savings account right now you could pay it off with?

>> Uh, not right now. I don't. No. I mean, we got, like I said, the emergency fund and then maybe another uh 15k combined

in checking and savings. >> What was the original balance of the federal student loans?

They were. It's been about 65. It hasn't moved. >> Can I tell you something hilarious? You have paid $31,000 plus toward your

student loans and the balance hasn't moved. >> Yeah. >> So, this was not a free ride from the get-go. That $38 for eight and a half years, it cost you.

>> And so, you can ride it out for another year and a half and hope that it's there. I would personally, if you're going to do that, you would better have that 65 grand sitting there ready to pay it off in case something falls through, >> in case you didn't dot the eye and cross the tea and they go, "Nope, rejected." >> So, I'm not mad if you hold on at this point for a year and a half.

>> But I also think you guys have a high income that you could just knock them out at this stage of the game, especially with no mortgage payment. What are you guys making?

>> Yeah. So, so I make 143 and my my wife

makes 123. So, we're at about 266 total.

>> This is the hilarious part. You guys could pay this off in less than a year, but instead we've hung on to it for a decade for a false promise while paying 31 grand toward it and making no progress. That's the part that breaks my heart for you guys.

>> Yeah, like I said, I I you know, I was the first one to go to college in my family. Um, so I didn't really understand, you know, taking out loans exactly what that means in the the long term. And you know, I sort of found out the hard way there. Um, and like I said, unfortunately, I'm eight and a half years in now.

So, I was trying to >> sort of figure out, you know, for the next year and a half, what do we do? And then, you know, what can we do for our a kid moving forward so they don't have to deal with student loans?

If you guys had just followed it from day one as it is stated, you got baby step five there. Once you get rid of all the debt, we're investing into 529 plans. That's what I just had another kid already opening up the 529 to start investing because you invest a few hundred bucks a month into that thing.

It's going to be six figures by the time they turn 18.

>> Okay. Thanks to Compound, the 529, you guys are definitely >> pro 529.

>> Yes, 100%. There's also the education savings account, but it has uh more limitations as far as income and contribution limits. And 529 plans have come a long way. And so they're a they're a great uh opportunity to invest for college with tax-free withdrawals for education.

So I would do that. But at first, before you do that, let's put our own mask on first and get rid of this debt. And if it were me, I would just knock them out. I know it's you're going to be mad either way.

You're going to be mad you waited a decade to knock this out making a quarter million dollars a year.

>> Yeah. >> So you're you're going to be okay. You guys have done great. you've shown discipline even if you've done it out of order. You know, uh you don't get an A on the Ramsay baby steps, but you you're doing great compared to the rest of America. And so, uh I'm rooting for you.

I hope you knock this debt out one way or the other. I hope the forgiveness works out cuz you've put so much into it at this point. It's just anger inducing.

If the government decides at the final hour, nah, don't let him through.

>> Oh, it's induced some anger in me. This situation for Zach has really steamed my broccoli. >> Uhoh. And Ken hates steamed broccoli.

>> I do. Uh, you should only grill broccoli. Incidentally, >> I'll do it. Little olive oil, lemon sauce. >> I don't I don't mind roasted broccoli, but we digress. But can I just say that this is what really upsets me about the federal student loan program. And if I could just say to anybody who is considering it, if there's any way for you to avoid it, avoid it. The federal government should not be in the banking

business. And this is banking. Zach's story. You've estimated he's paid $31,000 in interest. the the principle hasn't even been touched. And the federal government did this as a favor.

This was a good idea in the late 50s and

60s when this whole thing started. And the federal government is simply playing banker to millions of Americans, a lot of young Americans who've been told for decades by the culture, the parents, we've bought into it. I haven't. You all have heard me rant about this before. That college is the only way. And what is

happening here is is this kind of situation. And fortunately in Zach's case, he's not one that's been broken by it. But it does stick in the old crawl

for me on behalf of Zach to go when I

heard you say it that way. It just really upset me. >> Math can be very upsetting.

>> Yeah. And it's all in the guys of well get your degree and we'll help you. will give you a low interest thing and it's just >> and a lot of people stay in jobs they don't want to be in in the public sector and they could move to but they they think well I got to do this for 10 years and ride it out that's a big portion of your adult life >> we ought to remove the federal student loan program it ought to go away Congress ought to get rid of it completely delete it and get rid of it I'm with you on that it's just it's sinking so many people and check out our bar future documentary it's free on YouTube it will change your mind about the entire uh further education system we've got by the way on the whole broccoli Yeah.

>> I I mentioned that. If you go back, listen to the tape. >> Did you say that? >> Yes. >> Wow. I took it like it was my own engine.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Ken Coleman. The Natalie attired.

>> My name's George. >> George Camel joins me. I was just going to say something about the baby and I couldn't get anything. >> That's all right. It's a slow news day.

>> That's exactly right. Joe is up in Massachusetts. Joe, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. How you doing today? >> We're doing well. What's going on?

>> So, my wife and I have about $240,000

worth of debt and we are struggling paying it off while balancing raising our young family and our current home where the mortgage is taking up about 50% of our income. O >> now that my wife is going to be staying home at home with the kids.

>> O, how soon is >> how soon is that happening? or has it already happened where she's uh coming home and now the paycheck's going away?

>> Uh it's going to be in June.

>> Okay. So, we have a little bit of runway. That's why I interrupted you there. Go ahead with your with your question. Okay.

>> So, the question is uh should we sell our our dream home where we want to raise our our family? Um or should we

sell it to try to get out of debt faster? That's the main question.

>> What kind of debt is the 240?

>> We have 150 of student loans.

um 40 of personal loans and another 40

of uh two cars that that we drive.

>> What are the If we take both cars, >> what are the combined car payments?

>> Um buy cars are probably about $1,000 a

month. Um 40 on them, they're probably worth about 45.

>> But do you see what I'm saying? Like I'd attack that. That's my first option.

>> That's one solvable problem. >> That's a,000 bucks a month. 12,000 a year. So, the mortgage is still too much and it's about to be way too much now that you're going to lose your wife's income. >> What is she making?

>> She makes about 20,000 part-time right now. >> Okay. So, we're not losing like the lion share of the household income, but things are only going to get tighter at this point.

>> Yes. >> What are you doing for work and what do you make?

>> Uh, I'm a PA, a physician assistant. I make about 150 my base salary. Um, and I

can make up to another hundred or so if I really grind my butt off. And do >> Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm thinking we really grind our butt off.

>> I was thinking about the butt grinding as well. I really was. I thought this is what you should do. >> Yep. >> You should do that if you did that. I mean, it's it's it'd be for a season.

Like, I don't want you to be doing this forever and hopefully your income goes up over time as a PA, you know? Would that change the numbers on the mortgage?

cuz I don't want to run to selling the house as like, "Yep, just go do that tomorrow." But if there's no end in sight, no light at the end of this tunnel, then it might be time.

>> Okay. >> Would you start with the cars, George, if you could? The cars are the easiest thing. That's something you can control today. You can't sell your degree. You can't sell the person alone, but you can sell these cars and make out with five grand and save some up over the next couple of paychecks and get yourself some used cars. And now add $1,000 to

the debt snowball to get rid of the rest of this stuff. Um >> because if 150 uh trying to pay off 240 with a crushing mortgage, it's going to take you a decade. But if we can make 250 and pay off 200, this is a solvable

problem. >> Uh George, run those numbers for him.

Let's assume that you're getting after it and you're going to make that additional 100 grand.

>> Uh would that get him in alignment on our um on our 25%. That would probably

be a take-home of about 14 or so grand a

month, maybe, you know, close to that.

And so then you can >> What's your mortgage payment? >> Seven or eight. >> It's 4,000 a month.

>> Okay. So the goal here with that mortgage, if you can't begin to make 15 or 16 a month takehome, that four grand a month mortgage will eventually sink you guys or at least really delay any progress financially. So that would be my my thing for you guys. Let's see what the next 12 months holds. And if we can get the household income up to about 156

take-home a month >> while paying, >> right? We want to create a little more margin. A lot more margin actually.

>> Do you think that's feasible?

>> I feel like all you're saying is like I'm going to be working a lot. >> Yeah. Like future. >> I'm already I'm already doing that um for the past two years or so.

Um, but I'm I'm ready to keep on going >> because if your wife's going to stay home, I mean, that's that's a big decision. It's one that's born out of family values. It's emotional. It's more than just financial.

It's more than math. >> But you're saying this is what she's called to do. She's going to do it.

>> Mhm. Is it worth two to three years

>> of really hustling to make that extra income >> so that you can stay in this house for you, not your wife. I want you to answer that question on your behalf, not her behalf.

>> Um, yeah, I think I think it's definitely worth it for for my family's uh stability and happiness. Um, we really enjoy where we're at. >> Great. You know what's going to be great coming out of this beyond being debtree is you're going to go, I'm never doing this again. Because you're going to work so stinking hard, you're going to teach yourself a very valuable lesson. Yes.

>> Yes. >> And do you both know that your lifestyle is about to change drastically to where you're not spending nearly as much as you have been in the past?

>> I think the alarm bell just kind of went off, so we need to sit down and have a good talk about that. And you know, part of that talk is just laying out the numbers because right now it's going to feel all emotions.

>> And so just lay out an every dollar budget. Make it very logical, unemotional. Say, "Hey, I just want to make a budget with you to show you what our finances currently look like, what they will look like." And maybe you guys find, hey, we can actually get our expenses down to 6,500 a month. And if I

can make 12 or 13 take-home, well, now that's another six grand we can throw at the debt. >> Because let me give you some hope. If you can throw 6,600 bucks a month for this debt, you're done in two and a half years if you sold these cars,

>> okay? >> And a half year later, 6 months after that, you've got the fully funded emergency fund. Now we're completely debtree. We've got the mortgage under control if we can get our income up sustainably and we have no debt.

And so now we have all this extra margin we can use to start making some real progress and not feel like, well, if you didn't stay home, we wouldn't be in the it's just going to become arguing and stress for the next several years. But if you guys both agree this is what the next 3 years looks like, are you in?

>> Okay. Yeah, that that's feasible.

>> And is she going to be on board with this?

>> Um I think uh she'll be willing to do

whatever it takes to uh stay where we are right now. >> Yeah. And do whatever it takes for her to be able to come home.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And that's You guys have a great why right now. That baby is one of the best wise to get you through this season. And the good news is the baby won't remember what the heck happened.

>> No, >> it's just going to go cool. I have a pretty sweet life. I got mom. I got dad.

They're not stressed out. They're present. And versus what normally happens with PAs and docs and anyone in the medical field, they just lifestyle creep takes over. They're stressed out, but man, it looks good on the outside.

You got two luxury cars in the driveway.

Big, beautiful luxury home.

>> That's a great point. Real quick, a little bit more hope. Joe, how old are you?

>> I am 30. >> See, you're young. So, you've got a lot of runway in front of you from an income standpoint, don't you?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> So, so hey, you're 30. The next two or three years really tough as far as a lot of work, but man, does it set you up for the future. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> All right. That's the mindset. And listen, I'm not trying to give you a pep talk, but we are trying to inject you with a little bit of hope so that you go, "Oh, okay. tough medicine today, but

uh long term, man, I'm going to be sitting pretty.

>> Take that every dollar budget, create that vision, and go, man, by the time I'm 33, we're going to be in a different place financially. We are changing our family tree, and it's going to be a good life from 33 on. We got this. We're rooting for you, man.

[Music]

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[Music]

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All right. To Michigan is where we're going to go. And Renee is there. Renee, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you? >> We are having a blast. What's going on with you? >> Good. Um, so I'm just wondering how I can convince my husband that we're financially stable enough to move out of our parents house even though we're still on babys too and don't have enough saved for a house down payment.

>> How long have we been staying with his parents? >> Oh, no, no, your parents. How long have you guys been living? >> My parents. Yes. Um, it's been four years. >> Like since you've been married, you've been living with your parents?

>> No, we've we've been married since 2017.

So, what happened that caused you guys to go, "Hey, we can't rent anymore. We got to move in with mom and dad." >> So, what happened was we lived um in

Northern Michigan um and our, you know, our rent was super cheap, everything was great. Um and then my parents, they were the people who watched my kids um and they moved down state and there was no way that we could financially make it living up there without their help with the children >> cuz you couldn't afford child care. You went, "Well, we'll just move in with them and they can just watch them all day while you two go off to work, >> right?" >> Okay. What do you guys make?

>> Um, so our financial situation has changed now since since then. Um, so we

are bringing home about $9,000 a month

>> for crying out loud. I mean, what is

really going on here?

>> What is his >> What's really going on is I I I don't know. He's he's scared. Um, and I totally understand why because >> when we lived up north, we were living paycheck to paycheck and we were, you know, getting help from my parents. And now that we've lived down here, we're making pro at least triple what we were making up north.

>> Yeah. And by the way, we're not going to play armchair quarterback, but you guys could have made it work before. And so this pattern is repeating itself. It does us no good to go back and run the numbers from when you lived up there, but I can tell you there there was a way.

But you're right.

has gotten real comfortable. And what strikes me is it sounds to me like you're on your last nerve and they're your parents.

>> I am on my last nerve and I just I and I don't want to, you know, because we do help with my, you know, the expenses of living in the house. It's not like we live here, right, >> rent free. I give my parents money every month. We help with we help with everything. Um, and that's worked into our budget. You know, what we contribute to my parents and really living on our own would only be probably $800 more a month.

>> Have you sat down with him and showed him an actual budget to say, "Hey, here's what rent would be. I've got three different apartment complexes or whatever you're thinking. Here's place A, place B, place C." And with all of those numbers together, we're only talking about an increase of $800 a month for us to live on our own. Have you laid that out for him? The thing is

is he doesn't um I'm the one that manages all our finances. I manage it. I manage all the credit card payments, all the car payments, the contribution, any

trips that we take. Like I manage it all. And he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know what's >> show him. So wait a second. Do you remember the question I just asked you?

>> Have I sat down with him? >> What's the answer to my question?

>> The answer is I've tried and he's not interested. >> What do you mean he's not interested?

He's the one that says we can't make it financially. You go, "Let me show you how we can." He goes, "No thanks." He literally goes, "No, I don't want to look at it." >> He says, "No, I don't want to look at it." You You know, you handle the finances, right? >> Okay. Okay. Listen. All right. So, so instead of and well, when a guy is this

stubborn, he has his head up his his you

know what. All right. That's all this boils down to. So, if he says to you, "I don't want to look at it. You handle it." Then guess what? Go go go put a deposit down on on an apartment today.

Say, I got us a lease. Hey babe, >> 1,500 bucks a month. Great news. Got us

an apartment. Uh it's only And by the way, he doesn't know the numbers. So go.

So just say, and by the way, this is not me telling you to be dishonest with him or cover anything up. I'm not suggesting that at all. But this is a guy who you've attempted to show him and he's he

has literally checked out of the situation. He's not an adult when it comes to the money. And so I don't know

why you got to convince a guy nor I don't know how you convince a guy who refuses to have a conversation about it.

I don't have a tip for that. Well, he doesn't care about the money. >> He's just so No, he's just so stuck on

um we're still in debt and we you know I want to go straight from my parents house into >> Are you >> a house?

>> Are we What? >> Are you still big time in debt?

>> I mean we have like $46,000 in debt. Can I can I hear the numbers? Yeah. Let's get in. What did you start with? What was your total debt balance when you guys moved in?

>> Um, probably 10 grand.

>> So, you were 10 grand in debt when you moved in. Now you're 43 grand in debt years later.

>> Mhm. >> So, this whole plan that we're going to move in with my parents to pay off debt has backfired spectacularly. And has he been a part has he been a part of acquiring the additional 36 grand in debt? >> Yes. Oh, he was on board for that. What did he go into debt for?

>> Um, so he's a aid hobbyist when it comes

to Yeah. Yeah. when it comes to his guns

and his bows and >> you know, we needed to get him. >> He's going to lose his toys if you guys go rent somewhere.

>> He's going to lose the lifestyle he's created for himself. >> He's a That's it. He's afraid of that.

That's what's going on. He's a child,

>> but honestly, you've been an accomplice to these crimes.

>> Absolutely. >> So, you've allowed it to happen. This is not like, well, it's all on him. You both have been very lacadasical in this process, making zero progress. And here's the thing, it has stunted y'all's growth financially and relationally.

>> Yeah. >> And so, moving out is not to punish him.

It's to go, I married you to leave and cleave. >> Yeah. not to move back in with my parents while we continually go into debt while you're telling me this is better for us financially.

>> So, you need to have a serious conversation sharing your feelings cuz sharing the numbers ain't working.

>> Okay.

>> And use I state you do this and you just say here's how I'm feeling based on everything that's >> What was that reaction when George said what you need to do? By the way, George is right. You kind of did the old it was a little exhale giggle. It was an exhale giggle combo.

>> What was making you What's going on there?

>> Um because >> there is every time we have that conversation, it gets turned around on me and it's and it's, you know, rather than take us collectively taking the blame for this because it's not just me.

>> That's right. >> You know, and it's not just him, it's both of us. >> Yeah. He deflects. um it it gets deflected back on me and it's my problem

and it's my job to fix it and

>> wish we could get him on the phone right now. >> Yeah, you guys are you're going to need some some counseling some >> I really I actually think that's the case and I think how would you how would

you rate your marriage right now on a scale of 1 to 10? One being suck, 10 being amazing.

Um, probably like a 5.5.

>> What would he What would he rate it?

>> Depends on the day. Probably a little bit higher. Maybe like a seven.

>> Yeah. So, we're both in denial. Okay, that's good. We're on the same page on one thing at least. >> Yeah. I I think if he Do you think he

cares about your marriage?

>> No. Absolutely. Yes.

>> Okay. >> No. Absolutely. What? Yeah. That threw me cuz boy, you said >> absolutely yes. He cares. Okay. In what way does he care? Yeah. Like like as far as actions go >> as far as actions. I mean, um, we have a

very like open and honest relationship in terms of like, you know, obviously we love each other and we love our kids and we're

we're on the same page in terms of we're willing to do whatever it may whatever it takes to make it work >> accept rent and look at a budget and stop buying toys and going to see how finances other than that crushing it.

>> So, the reason that we're poking around on this issue is because is he going to respond when you say, "Hey, this is not good. We we we've got to go see a therapist and we've got to get on the same page with this. We can't be we can't be on the same page about everything else and not on the same page about money. I'm dying here. I don't want to live with my parents.

>> And every time I bring it up to you, >> and it's not just like I don't want to live with it's it's more like my parents deserve to not have us be here.

>> You deserve not to be with your parents.

You're putting on your parents. You're still clouded a little bit. >> You know what? I'd say, "Hey, I got a place to rent. You're welcome to join me. Get ready to be an adult.

>> How old are you two?

>> Uh 33. >> If you watched a movie about a 33-year-old couple who've been living with the wife's parents for 4 years, you it'd be a comedy. Jesus saved the world by the time he was 33. You guys can go rent an apartment. You'll be okay.

>> Oh, you can't drop the deity card on her. Who can live up to that? It's >> called the Jesus Jew. It works every time. >> Wow. That that heated up quickly.

Going to have to get George and Alka-Seltzer.

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Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music] All

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Today's question comes from Liam in Washington. Says, "I'm 39 years old and I own 26 cars that I rent out on Turo.

About 60% of them are paid off, but I have about $200,000 worth of business car debt." I understand your view of debt, but my cars are generating income for me. A car that I have a loan on cost me 3 to 400 bucks a month, but I'm generating 900 to a,000 bucks per month on that car. Is it still a good idea to pay off all my car loans and have my business operating debtree? I am balancing between paying off my cars, saving for my company reserves, and paying myself each month.

>> Feel like we have a young Dave Ramsey, except it's cars >> instead of real estate.

>> This is exactly what this is. But here's the problem. the houses at least keep their value and appreciate. These cars are going down in value. >> It scares me to death. >> So, my fear is, he goes, I have $200,000 worth of business card debt. Guess what?

The cars might only be worth a h 100,000 at this point completely as they get destroyed by the people renting them out. >> That's right. That is correct. Yikes.

Not a good idea. >> So, you're saying, is it the right way to manage my business? So, from an entree leadership standpoint, the way that Dave Ramsey teaches business, uh, you're trying to pay down debt. You're saving for company reserves.

You're trying to pay yourself each month. Yes, all of those things must happen. You got to have the money to do the maintenance and repairs and oil changes and new tires. You got to be paying down the cars, and you have to eat.

Personally, what I would do in your shoes, I would liquidate all the cars that I'm not underwater on to do this slower. And if that reduces some income temporarily, that's fine because you're going to get your butt handed to you when you're stuck with a bunch of cars that you're underwater on. Yeah. And the income dries up and all of a sudden you're going, "Dude, I have 26 cars and they're getting repoed left and right." >> I'd be unloading those cars. Man, some stuff, George, looks so good on paper.

>> Well, I've seen the Tik Toks where they go, "Okay, so if you don't know, Turo is actually a great app where you use it by >> rent someone's car. So instead of going to a rental car company, Ken Coleman has a great car. >> Say I want to get a Jeep for the day.

>> You can go on the app and rent a Jeep and you can do it with a debit card, which I love. No hassle.

>> I like the Turo. >> But people who are using it as a business opportunity, uh I've heard the horror stories and I'm scared Liam is next up. So, if you're going to do this, I would uh be very cautious and only do it with cash so that you're never underwater and not going into debt because any any business that is run with debt is at risk.

>> Yeah. >> And if you do it with cash, it just reduces your risk and increases your peace and hopefully allows you to survive and grow. So, that's our take. I can't go back in time, but I would offload as many cars as I can and do this the right way. >> So, good, George. I can't add anything to that. So, we nailed it. >> I won't. Trinity is up in Columbus, Ohio. Trinity, how can we help?

>> Hi, it's great to speak to you guys.

>> Good to speak with you. What's going on?

>> So, I am 24 going on 25 years old and I

have no debt. I've paid it all off for

college um and working. Thank you. I'm

really proud of it. >> You should be. >> And I've come across a huge income

increase this year. >> Nice. from what to navigate

>> from 36K to 75K.

>> Trinity, let's go. Don't just roll by that. We got to celebrate that. Way to go, girl. That's fantastic.

>> Thank you. >> What? Tell us just so we have context.

What what did you go from what to what?

Uh not an income, but what was the position? What what what world are you in?

>> Yeah, so I'm in the world of like um marketing and digital content creation.

So, I started at a news station.

>> Okay. >> Um straight out of college. They don't pay anything. They basically pay pebbles and sand.

>> Exactly. But I knew that if I did my time there, >> I would have so many opportunities going forward. >> Good for you. >> So, I went from doing almost two years

there to a corporate social media

strategist position. >> Nice. >> Where my income increased to 55K and

then I just launched um a social media freelance business to add an extra $1,000 a month. Come on, trendy.

>> That's with one client right now.

>> Come on. >> And then I I got approached kind of poached essentially from that position recently. >> Nice. >> To be the social media person for a CEO

who is a multi-millionaire here in Columbus in his sales company.

>> Nice. Way to go. Okay. So, I guess you're calling to ask us how to invest all this new money. Am I right or we got something else?

>> Well, actually, it's more about because I have all of this, right? I do have a financial adviser who's helping me with the investment portfolio, but I want to be smart and I don't want to get myself into debt that's not necessary, but I want to travel the world so bad. I've wanted to ever since I was little. I have my passport, never been out of the country. >> Okay. >> I do have a plan to save up money for

travel, but >> is a travel credit card worth it or am I just going to put myself into a bad situation? What are your thoughts?

>> Let me just repeat what you said to yourself. I don't want to go. Now, you did say now that I'm now that I remember, you said, "I don't want to go into into any unnecessary debt." And so,

all of a sudden, you're calling us going, "I really want to travel the world, so it might be necessary for me to get a credit card so I can get them travel miles." Is that what I'm guessing this is about?

>> Yeah, because that's what everybody tells you, right? Like, JP Morgan, >> have you met everybody? They're broke.

Yeah. What if everybody told you it was great to sniff glue? Would you have done that?

No. >> All right. >> Let me tell you what I've heard and what you probably are about to say. I pay my

balance off every month. I've never paid a dime in interest and I fly for free.

Have you heard those things?

>> Yes. >> And that's your plan. >> And that's your game plan. It's like, well, I'm not going to go into debt. I'm not going to carry a balance. I'll just pay off the statement every month and I'll accumulate all these travel mile.

I'll got 100,000 miles that gets me to Ankeny, Iowa. I don't know where these miles actually get you. Ankenany Iowa.

>> That's where people want to go these days. >> I love that reference. I'm so in I love that reference. Didn't even know that existed. I like to go with Shboen, but you know that >> I think the people of Ankeny deserve some. >> I think they don't get enough love. So, George, tell Trinity why this is a bad idea because it makes a lot of sense on paper. Yeah. So, tell us about this travel card. What is so alluring about it?

Um it's this idea that um

you could get basically those discounts because I'm always one to thrift instead of go to the >> You are talking to thrifty. Yeah. Tell us. Tell us exactly what card it is.

>> Um it would be like the Sapphire card

with Chase. >> Chase Sapphire Reserve costs $800 a year. >> Wow. And you get like an Uber credit and like fine dining credit. So things that are like entertainment and luxury versus necessity.

>> I've seen all the >> you know >> I've seen they've sent the people have sent me these videos. So it's going to cost you 800 bucks a year. So you at least just to break even on the card with all the fees that they're charging you have to at least make $800 in rewards. >> Oh >> right. Fine print. >> And now you got to spend enough to get the miles which are not actual, you know, travel miles. It's not like you're going 100 miles and you need 100 miles.

It's this random number they make up which they can devalue at any time.

>> Be gentle, George. >> Right. I'm making sure I understand it like you tell me if it's not correct.

So, is it a like a dollar gets you a mile or what's the what's the tradeoff?

>> About that essentially.

>> Okay. So, let's say 50 grand >> financial advisor. Yeah.

>> 50 grand gets you 50,000 miles

>> thereabouts. Yeah. I think it might be one or one and a half times, but yeah, right. Right on the money. >> Okay. So, that essentially gets you would that be like a roundtrip flight?

Maybe two >> or hotel. Yeah. >> Or hotel >> essentially. >> Okay. So, if you actually looked at the um the value of that flight, if you had just booked it yourself, you went on Google flights and just found an affordable flight on a decent airline,

could you find one that's 700 bucks total round trip?

>> Might be kind of hard if I'm going out of the country. Well, if you're going out of country, you need like a million miles. >> So, here's and what I'm trying to get at is it is not worth playing this game when you are already so successful. Only broke people have to play this game to try to make videos about how they >> How do you travel the world without a Miles credit card?

>> You just use a debit card and there's rewards programs. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. But how do you accumulate the money to travel?

How do you do that? >> Just work. I guess I just show up at work and they pay me. And so, I encourage you to try that.

Just do a budget. Have a travel fund. Make it a thousand bucks a month if you want and then book your travel at at the best price you can find instead of being stuck with what the credit card companies allow you to book. >> And you're Captain Thrifty.

I am Captain Thrifty. Thank you for that.

[Music]

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[Music]

All

right. When you are tackling debt or

trying to build wealth, one of the things we can tend to do is forget about one important step to reaching those goals, and that's insurance, coverage, protection, right? And uh sometimes you have too little, sometimes too much. And either one of those can impact your goals, your progress. And uh skimping on

insurance might seem like you're saving a buck or two, but when life actually hits you, you don't want to fall back into debt or at least be tempted to do so. So, the right insurance, think of it of as a shield uh around your family and

your bank account. So, how do you know if you have the right coverage? We've got the answer. It's called the coverage checkup. It's a free online resource.

that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation. Go to ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Ramseyolutions.com/checkup and you can take the checkup.

>> Uh or you can click the link in the description of our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. So, >> speaking of uh >> speaking of protecting yourself, Ken, this is big news. I want to hit some breaking news. >> Well, there was a big data breach and I want to give people some practical steps here.

one of the nation's top three credit bureaus, TransUnion, exposed more than 4.4 million Americans personal info when a third party vendor got hacked. So these names, addresses, social security numbers. So I'm not here to alarm you, but I want to give you some practical steps and they're things that I have done. So first, freeze your credit with all three bureaus so that no one can open fake accounts in your name or go into debt using your name.

Second, watch your bank accounts like a hawk. If you see something that looks off, call your bank immediately. And lastly, get identity theft protection.

Uh because this won't be the last breach. So, head to ramseyolutions.com

theft if you want to learn more and the folks that we trust or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. >> Wow, it feels like we get more and more of those alerts. It never stops.

>> Yeah, >> evil never takes a day off.

>> Yeah, >> that's what I always say. I'm Batman. Got to love those cyber security folks.

Everyday heroes. Uh, all right. Let's go to Canada and Andy is waiting for us.

Andy, how can we help today?

>> Hi guys. So, uh, my wife and I about two years ago started a chocolate shop and,

uh, the build cost way more than we expected. So, the business took on about, uh, $150,000 of debt. And sort of

as a part of that uh we have profit this

past year um of about 99,000

and I'm trying to figure out how best to spend the money in terms of like growing the business and paying off our debt

debt service of that 99 is about 48,000.

It's quite a bit. And then um growing

the business, which um what we want to do is buy some chocoliering equipment cuz right now we have nothing and it's all done by hand and that's backbreaking. It's it's literally killing us and I don't think we can keep it up for >> You and your wife are making all the chocolate by hand.

>> That's correct. It's all by hand.

>> And did I hear you say >> one other employee with us?

>> Wow. And and the profit then the uh was

it 99,000 in profit? Did I write that down right? >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Um is that is that gross or net?

>> Uh I suppose that's gross.

>> So what are you guys paying yourselves? >> Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get at here. >> So we're getting about 60,000.

>> And that includes your employee, the one other person. Uh, no. They're getting about 40.

>> Wow. So, we're actually

if if it's gross 99 and you're paying 100, you're not profitable.

>> Oh, sorry. I I guess it's net.

>> Okay. So, you're saying after you pay 60 to your housees? >> So, this is after all expenses, including the debt service >> plus paying you, your wife, the one other person, then we have 99 left over.

That's right. >> Is that sitting in like a savings account right now?

>> Uh, so right now we've spent most of

that because we had a pretty rough year.

Um, chocolate prices have increased like crazy. They've gone up about 300%. We're doing our best not to pass that on to customers. >> Where's that coming from? What's what's driving the cost of chocolate up 300%.

I'm curious. >> Oh, it's a few things really. So, there's been crop failures in different parts of the world. Um there's been disease blight and stuff like that. Uh chocolate >> ever more popular. So there's supply and demand problems. And then uh you know

with failing crops, people are looking at using disease resistant strains.

>> Gotcha. >> And yeah, that like those sort of impact the quality of the chocolate we get and we use the best in the world. So by that stuff >> 99,000. Do we have that sitting in an account?

Did I because George asked you then you said you spent it but you started off the call saying how do I spend that money? I want to be wise with it. >> Well, this is this is sort of like the next year that's coming. Uh sort of projected.

We've spent most of that.

and that's just sitting as cash. Uh some of it is going to be coming back to us because we um our AC went out and so we

were closed for about a month. So, our insurance is covering some of that. So, we're going to get um you know around 30 40,000 from that. I >> All right, let's talk about the equipment because there's a temptation to scale obviously and that's I'm glad you guys are doing well and you're talking about the chocolier. Am I saying this right? Chocoliering equipment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> I'm going to go home and tell my wife today that I talked to a chocolier. It makes me sound I think pretty pretty fancy. So, what equipment do we got?

>> I I think so. uh what what's the base

amount like what's the smallest amount of equipment that um that you would need and it would

help you uh generate more profit? What

what's this? Have you run the numbers on we could spend this uh and we could spend you see what I'm saying? There's a temptation to go all in. >> It's a little it's a little tricky. um

we can buy a couple of smaller items that would just kind of help us out with some of the stages to make it a little less labor intensive. Great.

>> But the main steps to actually, you

know, temper chocolate and have it like on hand. >> Each of those machines is between like 20 and 60K and we temper around, you

know, 12 different types of chocolate.

Imagine the expense that would be.

>> I get it. But and and I don't know anything about the business. So, please forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you think through the impulse here because the number one challenge of entrepreneurs is the impulse to grow.

And you can really make a compelling case like you just did to George and I. >> Usually, they say, "Well, we could triple our profits if we got a $60,000 machine." >> But let's go to that first step before you went to but we want to temper. All right.

Okay. So, what would that amount be for that small amount of equipment that would help with manpower and less hours, which is good for you? >> Probably around 70 grand.

>> I thought that was a small amount. So, it's not a >> You were saying you needed you needed 12 of these machines that cost 20 to 60K.

That's the ideal scenario. So yeah, the ideal scenario is 12 machines that cost probably the 60k and then other perolous

machines that cost like 20 grand each.

>> What can you what can you spend in the 10 to 15 grand? I'm making this up, but I'm also trying to help you think. What can you spend in the 10 to 15 grand range? 20 max. Max. I'm thinking 10 to

15 that would make your life easier.

There's there's one machine that we could get that's about in that price range. It doesn't temper that that pipes the the ganaches and

stuff into the chocolate and that saves a few hours of labor.

>> Okay. So, is that we could cash flow

that we could pay cash for that.

Correct. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And it would save time and that would make life better. And your it's not like you guys are doing well now. It's not like your audience is, excuse me, your your customers are yelling for more uh tempering and we'd like more machines.

You know, you're winning right now. Yes or no? >> Yeah, I'd say we're doing really well.

The business has been a huge success since we opened about 11 months ago. So, it's going really well. >> So, so Andy, I guess what I'm preaching here is is patience >> because I I feel you.

>> You called us and we're going to tell you not to go into debt. We're going to tell you, I'm going to give it to George really quick. George, what does he do with that uh money that's coming in extra, those retained earnings, >> you're going to have to figure out how to live on less and use all the profits you can, which you need to increase by also increasing your costs. That's part of it.

You need to explain to customers, hey, chocolate went up, >> cocoa beans are up 300%. We are trying our best to keep our prices down, but we had to increase by this much in order to stay in business. If I'm the customer, I appreciate the honesty. I understand and I'm willing to pay for your best chocolate in the world.

Let's attack that debt, man, before we go scale this thing up with cash. >> You guys are going to win big, but be patient. >> Send us some chocolate if you could. That'd be nice.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Camel alongside. Excited to be here for you all. Carolyn is going to be up next in Atlanta, Georgia.

Carolyn, how can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hey guys, how are you?

>> We're having too much fun, I think, today. How are you? >> Well, there you go. I'm doing well.

>> Good. >> Um, so my question is a little

backstory. So, I went through a divorce about three and a half years ago. I am

56 years old and I basically had to

start over. >> Oh. >> So, nothing saved retirement. That's a whole that's there's a reason. So, at any rate, I'm starting over. Mhm.

>> And I do have um about 65,000 in

investments, about 25 in a traditional

IRA, and I do have $3,000 in a savings

um in the bank. >> Okay. >> So, my question, and then I am contributing to my 401k at work, 6%. So, I have I I' I've started doing that. My

question is the only debt I have is a

car payment and my mortgage. I have absolutely no other debt.

>> So my I owe about

20 a little over $20,000 on my car.

>> Okay. And um unfortunately my father had passed away a couple years ago and I was left with a

well his IRA which is now a beneficiary IRA. >> Mh. >> So I have eight years to withdraw that money. So, I'm wondering, should I

withdraw the money, start slowly withdrawing the money and put it in a Roth IRA to help me in retirement and keep, you know, picking away at paying

off my car or should I take a chunk out of that and pay my car off and be done with it? >> What is your income? >> I mean, my income I bring in about 4500

a month >> net.

Yes, that's what I'm that's what's getting into my bank account >> coming home. Okay, gotcha. >> And that's after your 6% investing and taxes and healthcare and all that.

>> Okay. Yes. >> And what's what's in that beneficiary IRA? How much is left in there?

>> There's about 98,000.

>> Oh, sweet deal. Okay.

>> Nice. That's good news. >> So, pay it off today. Y >> that still leaves you with like 80 grand in there, >> right? >> And then you can use that. You're free freeing up your car payment as well.

>> What's the car? What's the car payment?

The car payment is right is like $4.90.

>> Oh my gosh. If you do it, you hear what George just said? I think that flew right by you a little too quickly. Like pay off the car today.

>> Okay. >> Cuz that's robbing your ability to invest. >> I'm getting more interest. I was like, I'm getting more interest. So, I just wasn't sure about I want to be done with debt. >> Maybe. Well, here's the thing. We don't know what the market's going to do tomorrow. But we do know that paying off your car has a has a forced interest rate and a big raise.

Yes. >> And I would also withdraw enough to cover your savings account because right now you are you're one HVAC dying away from going into debt again.

>> I love that. What would three to six month what what would you uh George in her case knowing her numbers? You want to you want to see three, four, five, six or leave it up to her? >> Well, you're the single now and so that puts you more at risk than having you know two incomes. So I would lean towards six especially at your age.

>> Yeah, >> I like that. >> I feel more comfortable with six. That was kind of my goal to try and get up to six. >> So, what is uh 6 months of your expenses?

>> Well, I mean 4 * 6 24. I mean, I think I would be comfortable with 25,000 just to

>> So, out of the 98, >> let's pull out 20. >> We just put in a >> Okay, go ahead. >> Just pull out 20 to pay off the car.

Pull out another 25 to get your emergency fun. Really two cuz you already have 3,000 in savings. And that will still leave you with 56K that you need to withdraw over the next eight years. And so I would withdraw that equal amount so that it kind of runs out over time and move that over to that Roth IRA.

>> Okay? >> Cuz now think about it. You are you were investing 6% and you had a car payment.

Now with a fully funded emergency fund and no debt, we can jack up our investing to 15%.

>> Correct. >> And now we can make up for some lost time. And once the house is paid off, you can invest even more. So, what's left on the mortgage?

>> Uh, about 122.

>> Oh, wow. Amazing. This is actually for someone who had to start all over. Caroline, I just want you to know we think you're sitting really pretty. Cuz don't make me get George to get his investment calculator out. >> I'll do it cuz you're 56 years young is the way I see it.

>> Well, thank you. >> Yeah. So, imagine you put, let's say, 20K toward the house a year. Well, by the time you're 62, this house has paid off completely while you've been investing 15%.

>> On top of what you have now.

>> Yeah. And I did just buy the house two years ago. >> Okay. >> Great. Well, you didn't buy too much house. It sounds like everything was very reasonable after you went through a lot of life. >> I I was I mean I was what I just took every what we made on the house when we sold it and I put a lot chunk down.

>> Nice. What's your house worth on the market right now?

500. >> Come on. Way to go.

>> Fantastic.

>> So, now you're going to have a half a million dollar house. It's going to be worth more than that by the time you're 62. >> You're going to be in good shape. All right, George. What about her catching up on her uh investing?

>> That will happen over time. As you get rid of all this debt and pay off the mortgage, you'll go from that 15% to 25%

30% and hopefully your income goes up over time as well. And so I have I'm not worried about you catching up on all this, especially once you have a paid for house, your investments will double about every seven years based on what the market's been doing. So if you have a h 100,000 invested now, which you're pretty close to that based on what you've laid out, if not more, then you'd have 200 if you did nothing. If you'd invested zero dollars more, and then seven years from there, you'd have 400.

And so you'll likely get close to that million dollar mark by the time you're 67.

>> Okay? And I do have I only have one kid on the payroll. I have one in college, but she graduates this year.

>> Come on, mama. That's a big deal. That's kind of nice. That's another pay raise.

>> Yes. I'm hoping. I'm hoping.

>> What do you mean hope? You get to determine that. Hey, fly.

>> That's true. That's the hard thing. But yeah, so I've got I've got Yes. Uh two that are on their own and I have one the last one's a senior. So if I can Yeah.

get her off the payroll. >> What is your gross income per year?

What's your salary?

>> Well, I Okay, one thing I didn't So, I just got a raise. I only make 53,000 a year, but

I also have a I have a um Oh, what is it

called?

>> A side business. >> I think is what it's called. No, a um

>> Give us a clue. Give us a clue. This is kind of fun. >> I need to write it down.

um where my dad had put in investments

for charity a charity trust a charitable trust >> and since he passed his wife so I my

sisters and we kind of split his portion of it so that's approximately that's approximately 700 a month >> that adds to your income >> correct so that's where that 4500 that's part of that income until it's gone >> I mean one day it will be gone I don't know you know right >> um So, >> I was just trying to crunch some numbers for you to give you some hope that you will catch up cuz you're you said you are 56.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what what age would you like to be able to retire?

>> Not soon enough. >> You're ready. Well, let's >> Well, that's not a reality. If you're catching up, you're going to, you know, let's say 68, 69, that'll still give you

about 660 grand if you're just investing 700 bucks a month consistently. Plus, remember, you're going to be investing even more once. >> And that doesn't include the paid for house, which is going to be worth over half a million. So, >> so you will be a baby steps millionaire uh retiring with dignity if I have anything to do with it. So, >> and you you haven't you haven't you haven't sworn love off, have you? The rest of your life.

>> No. Go find you.

>> I'm not there. >> Go find you a debt-free man. And this picture gets even better.

>> It does. It will one day. I hope

>> it will. We believe. We believe.

[Music]

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Caitlyn is up in North Carolina.

Caitlyn, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I am 28. I have um almost no

debt. I have no credit card debt. I have

six more payments left on my car.

>> Okay. >> Um, so that's about to be paid off. I

bought land about two years ago. I owe 60 grand on that and that is the only debt that I'm in. Um, >> how much how much dirt?

>> Um, it is 19 acres.

>> 19 acres. Okay. You plan to build on that, live on that. What's the story?

>> Yes. Yes. I I plan to pay it down. I'm

not in a rush right now. Um so I'm throwing all the money at it. Um pay it off and then get a loan and put a home on it. >> Okay. What is your income?

>> I'm sorry. Can I say that one more time? >> What is your income?

>> Um I make about 80 grand a year.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Okay. So, over time, I have built up an emergency savings, and I have about 45 grand in

cash. Um, and I I feel like I'm doing

well financially at this point, but I don't really know how to spend that cash. >> What Where is the Well, when you say cash, is this in the bank or are we saying cash like laying around somewhere?

>> No, like it's it's in a gun safe.

>> Okay. I I started with an emergency fund and then I just kept adding to it.

>> Why is it not in a savings account?

>> Well, cuz I've always been told I needed to have cash on hand and then some in the bank and that's that's how I grew up. But now I've got >> They just didn't tell you how much, so you just went overboard.

>> Okay, that helps. >> 45 grand in a gun safe. I mean, there's

cash on hand and that's like I don't even know how you describe that. Are there also guns in there?

>> I'm going to say yes. >> Okay. I'm just Is this like a a paranoia? Hey, if it all goes down, I'm going to be ready with a suitcase of cash in my gun. Like that's I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from if it's from a place of legitimate fear,

you know, illegitimate fear, cuz I would be taking most of that and parking it in a high yield savings account. Yes.

>> Because there is much more risk that your money is eaten away by inflation than there is of a bank collaps. have a rule of thumb, George, on actual cash in your home. >> You know, someone asked me this yesterday and I said, "Hey, I think $1,000 cash is plenty." >> That's what I was thinking. >> Now, if you have a good reason to have more than that, $2,000, 3,000, but $45,000, I think we could all agree, is a wild amount to have in cash.

>> At least be burying that in the backyard. Maybe >> we've taken that call. 120 grand buried in tin cans in the backyard. >> We actually gentleman in Texas, he'll never forget it. >> Yeah. I'm joking, by the way, for anybody who doesn't understand sarcasm.

Don't bury your money in the backyard.

>> But with a high yield savings account, at least you're keeping up with inflation, cuz $45,000 20 years from now won't buy you $45,000 worth of goods. >> Mhm. >> And so I would at least try to keep up with inflation in a high yield savings account with, let's say, 40. Maybe you start there and you start to put a little bit more in over time.

But there's really no good reason, unless you can tell me why you need that much cash on hand at all times.

You can transfer money. It's and there's, you know, you got FDIC insurance in the bank. So, there are more protections you have in the bank than you do with a gun safe at home.

It's your word against anyone else's that that money was there.

>> Okay. Yeah. I really don't have a good reason why it's there. I've just always heard and have a safety net in both places. >> What's left on the car loan?

>> I'm sorry. >> What's the balance left on the car loan?

Um, it's under three grand.

>> Oh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Why don't you just go take three grand in cash and go down and pay off the loan? Why even stick with six more payments to deal with that?

>> Well, I figured it was helping me with my credit. >> Oh, no. Okay, we'll get you a book for that. Uh, why do you need credit at this point in the game?

>> In preparation to buy a house.

>> But you have a land loan that you're making payments on, right?

Yes, >> that'll keep up that'll keep up your credit score just fine. >> That's going to get you all you need. >> Keeping the car loan is not going to do you any favors. I would get rid of it.

It's one less thing living in your hand your head rentree. You're doing so well.

There's really no reason to carry this.

And then on top of that, you could be using some of this cash to even pay down the land loan. >> Yeah, I don't think you need 45. What are your monthly expenses right now to run everything in your house, pay all your bills?

>> Um, probably about 700. You can live off

$700 a month. Your land loan is more than that.

>> No, it's not. My My land loan is only 520 a month.

>> Do you have utilities? >> And that's that's part of it. >> Food. >> Um >> insurance. >> What's your rent, phone, internet? I

I will say I am currently living with my

boyfriend >> and we have an agreement that if my name is not on the house or anything where I

could get equity if something were to happen that I don't pay a bill and so I

don't have um any expenses in that.

>> You're just living with the boyfriend rentree.

>> Yes. >> Well, how long is that supposed to last?

Well, and until he decides it's time to

get married, and then I don't mind, you know. Um, >> how long have you all been living together? >> The road.

>> Um, about six months.

>> Okay. How long you How you How long you guys been together as a couple?

>> Under a year. >> Okay. This is very new. You just jumped on in. >> Yeah. Hello. >> You said, "Hey, rent free. I'll take >> Well, why wouldn't she? This guy gave her such a deal. It's hard to refuse that one." So, you're paying for groceries and insurance and the land loan and a car payment. Your expenses are more than $700. Let's be honest.

>> Um, >> even with him paying the rent.

>> Okay. I would keep an emergency fund of 15 grand.

>> Now, I know this is his gun safe. You got your money in his gun safe.

>> That's That's his house. You got that money parked on >> I moved in. >> Oh, you moved your gun safe in. Why not?

Boy, I tell you, you are in charge.

You're not paying a nickel of rent until he puts a ring on it. >> There's one reason to put it in a bank because right now it's on his property that he legally owns.

And if I don't know, I'm just I'm makes me nervous. It's all >> I got to tell you. I I the big brother role. I'm very uncomfortable with this situation. >> You You need Yeah. So, first of all,

let's get back to the thing that's most pertinent. You 45,000 needs to go in the bank. Number one. Number two, uh George, what what do we think? She's probably $1,000. So pay off 6 months. So 6,000 is

6 months emergency fund for you.

>> Yeah. And I would keep >> that in a real situation. >> Yeah. If your life changes at all.

>> If he dumps if he dumps you, you and your cash are moving out.

>> Or if you dump him, I feel like it's probably more of that than the other way around, right? Like let's be honest, if anybody's dumping somebody, it's you dumping him. Isn't that right?

>> We'll see. >> Does he have $45,000 saved?

No, he does not. >> There we go. Does this guy have debt?

>> Um, yes, he does. >> Oh, boy. >> Oh, boy. Does he know the uh the code to the safe?

>> No. >> He has his own safe. I have my own safe.

>> Isn't hers? That's romantic. That's how we like it. That's fun. All right.

>> Well, we're cheering you on. I would get rid of the debt. I would park the money in a high yield savings. Keep enough for an emergency fund. Any money beyond that now becomes let's pay down this land loan while trying to save up for the house. I would probably just attack the land loan. Once that's done, then take out the loan and make sure it's no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

>> That would be the the wise way to do it so that you don't buy too much house because you can get a little carried away with a land loan going, "Well, they they gave me the bank said they'll give me $500,000 for a mortgage. Doesn't mean you should take that." >> Yep. And um you didn't call for relationship advice, but it's your lucky day because I'm giving it. You've been together for a year, living together six months.

>> If this guy doesn't show some type of, you know, desire to put a ring on it and start talking about marrying you, I wouldn't keep living with him.

>> This will turn into two years and all this. It's just a weird situation.

>> When people move in together before marriage, it's well, we've been together for nine years now and he still hasn't put a ring on it, >> right? I got news flash for you ladies.

He ain't going to. He's not going to.

He's got a good situation without the commitment. So, I don't like it. Make

him commit. >> That's Uncle Ken for you. He's going to Uncle Ken. That's what he does. >> I'm going to do it.

[Music]

Hey, if you're enjoying the program, you can help us grow. And we are growing and we're so grateful. But hey, here's how you do it. like, subscribe, and share,

share, share uh on whatever platform you're doing. That helps us grow. You guys are the greatest marketing program of all time. So, if it's helping you, uh we'd love for you to help us get in front of more people so we can help more people. Haley is up right here in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Haley, how can we help?

So my question is how do you break out of the working essentially hustle cycle

once you get to a place of comfort I

guess is >> the best way to say it. >> It's a great question. So am I to understand like you've done the baby steps, you've won big time and now it's like how do I get out of that gazelle intensity and actually smell the coffee a bit? Huh? >> Yeah, kind of. I can give you a little more background. >> Yeah, give us a little bit.

>> So I'm a single 30-year-old female. A

couple years ago, I started realizing that I needed to do more for my future to like get ahead. So, I came to the conclusion that I needed to up my income. >> Okay. >> Um, so I moved jobs and the job where I'm at currently, my regular hours, I gross about 80k a year.

>> Um, but I have the ability to work lots of overtime. >> Okay? >> And so, the last couple years I've been able to make >> between 200 to 250k. Come on.

>> Way to go, Haley.

>> Yeah. Working though, 90 to 100 hours a week. >> Oh, you got to stop.

>> And >> seriously, >> yeah. Easier said than done.

>> You've been at this pace for how long?

>> Uh, probably about three years.

>> But that was to get through the baby steps. >> Um, honestly, the B So, I I didn't

graduate with any student loan debt or anything. I really didn't have any debt.

I just really wanted to pay off my house and build my retirement.

>> Good for you. >> With the hope of being able to retire, you know, in the in the future sooner

than 65 or whatever.

>> Okay. So, tell us where you are. Did you pay the house off? >> Yep. I paid off uh my $300,000 house.

>> Way to go. How much you got in retirement? >> I got I built up my investment accounts totaling around 250,000.

>> Fantastic. have a really good emergency fund. How much I track?

>> Oh, probably like $60,000.

>> Yeah. This is screaming. There's another reason why you're working those hours.

>> Yeah. >> What is the real real? Come on. You called us. I don't No judgment.

>> I don't know. >> Yeah, you do. >> I I think there's just like like I grew up in a home where there was no money. >> There we go. Come on. It's safe, Haley.

You're safe here.

Yeah. So, just a lot of anxiety with that. >> Yeah, there it is. And that's okay. And

I I think today's call might be a big step in the right direction just to say it in front of a lot of people. Say it to us, these two strange dudes. I grew up in a home where there was nothing.

And it was painful to watch. It wasn't just painful to watch for your parents.

It probably was painful for you.

And somewhere along the way, young Haley

made a decision. You may not even remember it. Maybe you do remember the day, but whether you remember doing it or not, you said, "This is never going

to be my life." And it became a statement of conviction. Because it takes conviction, I mean soul

deep passion to work 90 to 100 hours a week.

Am I right, George?

like that's not grit. There's something deeper and you just shared it with us.

>> Well, at that point you you are you were running from trauma instead of running towards peace and freedom. And I think it's time to make that shift to go >> we're okay now. >> We're going to be fine. You're only 30 years old and you are light years ahead of probably anybody in your family or even in your circles.

>> Okay, real fun. Real real quick. I want George to do this. George is the master. George, would you pull up your investment calculator here? >> Oh, this is fun. She's got 200 grand in

her retirement accounts or in her investment accounts at the age of 30. Uh

this may be a moot point, Haley, because part of me thinks you've run this exercise, but George.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> She's done the math. >> I I I halfway through I realized like I forgot who I was talking to right now.

Haley knows. So you actually know without putting him on the spot then you know how much money that's going to turn into over the next 20, 30 years. Yes.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Is that enough?

>> No. No. Let me let me rephrase. Let me rephrase. >> Is it enough to never be in the situation that you saw your parents in?

>> I I feel like yes, but then a part of me is like, well, what if something

happens? Okay, play that. So then it just kind of what would be what would be a thing that would do that to you?

>> Do you think the stock market goes to zero?

Like I know logically that it doesn't because you know we've seen the returns.

It's you know >> think about what that would mean. It would mean every company in America goes bankrupt. >> At which point we have bigger problems than reliving childhood trauma.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like >> that's like that's probably when there's nobody alive but the cockroaches. So what are we worried about? Like we all have bigger problems at that point than well I'm back to the situation that I grew up in. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And logically I I can

understand that. It's just the like

>> it was real for you.

>> Yeah. Is is hard cuz it's like they like

they'll offer you the work and so it's hard to say no because I know how much value of >> one of those shifts is, >> right? >> And so it's just it's hard to >> What are the chances, Haley, that you do something bone jarringly stupid with money? What are the chances on a scale of zero to 100 that you would do something stupid with money?

>> Probably zero. >> It's like, yeah. So, >> negative zero. >> Um, have you sat with a professional to talk about all that trauma around money and probably a lot of other junk?

>> Probably not as much as I should have.

>> Can you? >> Yeah. >> Can I tell you something?

>> Mhm. Um, I had danced around therapy,

done a little bit here and there for years, and I was masking stuff, and I was literally trying to just hold it all in. And I finally got to a point over a year ago where I realized that I was turning into an angry person due to

several factors. And I realized that I was unable to to handle it. I couldn't I

couldn't manage it anymore. And it's really really hard to admit that. But can I tell you and and because I want you to hear me that I think that you can

get freedom from this. I really do. I I actually think a professional will help you go back into the past, see it all

from every angle, understand what happened to you, and out of that, you get the tools to be able to go, "Oh, I won't be victim to this fear around money anymore, which will then allow me to live a normal life and work 40 hours and go on vacation and do something fun

and give some of that money away because I'm talking to somebody who's got a huge heart." Do you hear that heart on her, Joy? Absolutely. Yeah. What I'm hearing too is you you just got a flat tire.

You are so good at saving and hoarding and investing and we need to increase the spending. We need to increase the generosity and it's going to unlock so much and I think take the pressure out of this like well I could be saving that. I could be taking that shift instead. It's going to turn into that'll be a fun experience.

Let me invite some friends to that trip. I'll cover it. Hey let me go give to this thing I'm passionate about. Let me go volunteer for fun in the free time instead of taking that extra shift.

And if you force yourself to do that with a budget, over time, you'll create those new habits and you'll drop the old ones and you'll drop the mentality of everything needs to be about a dollar amount and what it could be, what it could turn into. So good.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. She probably carries a membership card.

>> Yeah. Maybe intentionally or unintentionally. And here's what I found. They get there and the goalpost shifts.

And instead of, well, I have 3 million, but I don't know if it's enough. I think I need five now. And then 10 years from now, it goes, well, I think I need 10 now because what if? And the other thing that happens is when you stop working and doing something that you enjoy, it turns into boredom after the fun >> wears off.

That boredom turns into depression and then you're going to seek purpose for fulfillment. >> So I would leaprog all of that and just go to the seek purpose for fulfillment part.

>> Not not tons. >> Okay, I want you to answer this really quickly. Okay. If I was paying for it and I said, "You get to take three or four girlfriends for a fun weekend." What would you do? Give me Give me an answer.

>> Well, I'm I am taking a trip. I'm going to Maine with my college roommates.

>> Okay, great. My point is >> in a couple weeks. >> That's That's your new homework assignment. One thing a month within a budget so that we until you get that therapy and start to learn how to not be afraid of money. Uh, I think you need to learn to do something fun. Buy somebody's food in the drive-thru behind you. Little acts of giving, little acts

of fun that are very intentional. You're going to feel safe doing it. >> You've invested in your 401k. Time to invest in yourself. Haley, you got this.

[Music]

Our [Music]

scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 26:14. As for me, I am in your hands. Do

with me whatever you think is good and right. And our quote today from George Bernard Shaw. Both optimists and pessimists contribute to society. The optimist invents the aeroplane. The pessimist, the parachute. Oh, I like that.

>> It's a dare I say, overly simplistic

philosophy there. I could pull that one apart. Not sure I completely agree with that quote. >> Just let it be a tweet. Just be, you know, >> well, I thought it was safe because he's no longer with us. He's not going to reach out to me on social media. I see the truth in what he's saying. Yeah, >> but a little overly simple. >> Ken is anti-pessimist. I'll tell you that much. >> That is a fact. Don't like to hang out with pessimists. Dustin is in Nevada.

Nevada. Nevada. >> Uh, I know it's Nevada, but my heart says Nevada. >> I My brain says Nevada. I'm going to correct it to Nevada cuz I recently met somebody and they really poignantly told me. Ken, it's Nevada. So, there we go.

>> It just sounds too Midwestern. And it's not in the Midwest. >> I feel like I'm screwing it up, too. >> From Nevada. >> Yeah. Dustin, how can we help?

>> Yeah. And you're right. It is Nevada.

You say that out here, you're bound to get stoned. I know. I know. I caught a

little heat from somebody here that came to our offices and told me, "You're saying it all wrong, Ken. Uh, boy, it really damaged my ego for a while, but I got over it." How can we help you?

>> Uh, yeah. Um, so I've been listening to to your guys' show for uh three months.

It's been uh very eye opening and uh I'm

uh eager to get on the debtree bandwagon

and uh I do have a ways to go. Um, so

what's going on is that I'm contemplating uh selling my h selling my house and downsizing uh to pay off some of my debts. Uh my parents are kind of saying, you know, stay where you are.

Stay where you are. You won't be able to get another house like this or >> or or or build on build on our place. We got plenty of land and or buy a duplex.

And I >> All right. I'll tell you what. Why don't you run the numbers because we know what you're considering. Should I sell my house to pay off debt? Walk us through your debt.

>> Uh, so I have a credit card de debt,

which I've tackled, is um $3,000. Um,

let me see. Uh, student loan debt, $20,000. Uh, medical debt, uh, it's kind

of been been on the rise. Uh, $5,000.

Uh, let me see what else. Um my uh my uh

yearly income is uh uh 50,000. Uh I do

have a side hustle that I'm doing uh to you know pay off some of those debts. >> How much does your side hustle? How much does your side hustle generate?

>> Uh not that much but uh I think about

like 7 $10,000 a year maybe.

>> Okay. Is that all the debt?

Uh yeah, that's all all the debt >> and the income you gave us, that's not take-home, that's gross.

>> Um >> 50K, is that gross or net? Bringing home? >> Uh I would say that it's uh Sorry, I

feel so stupid. Uh >> no, no, it's it's totally okay. After taxes, >> I apologize. Yes. What are you bringing home after taxes? What are you putting in the bank account?

Oh, after taxes, I think it's about 40.

>> Okay, gotcha. So, so 40k take-home.

>> What's your mortgage and the mortgage payment?

>> Uh, mortgage payment is uh $1,623.

Uh, the mortgage uh amount on the house is uh 196,000.

>> What's it worth? >> Uh, the I got it recently appraised.

It's uh worth uh between 348 to 370.

>> All right, George. What do you think? >> 350. >> What do you think, George? >> Well, here's what's happening. Your mortgage is about almost half your take-home pay. And so, you're feeling the >> 40%. Yeah. >> So, the question is always, is the mortgage the problem or is the debt the problem? And looking at this, you could clean up the debt and you might still be stressed out trying to make this mortgage payment every month.

>> Exactly. So, the question I have is, is there room for your income to grow in the foreseeable future?

>> Uh, and will you get married to go back to school? >> Uh, not again. No, I'm I'm a single parent. So, yeah, >> it's not in the picture.

>> No, I I got hurt hurt and burned pretty badly. So, >> I'm so sorry about that. >> I'm I'm just Well, at least not while I'm at least not while I I'm raising my kiddo. My goal is to just raise my kid to 18. Then I'll go back into the dating game. >> How old are you?

>> Uh 31. >> How old is your kid?

>> Uh he's uh uh 8 years old.

>> Okay. >> Um but he he has autism and so a lot of

my time is you know blessed to you know.

>> Is that why you feel somewhat limited on the income uh professional ladder question that George posed?

because you immediately went to no, I can't really make more money because I'd have to go back to school. And I do want to lean into that for just a moment to see if that's in fact true or a limiting belief. So, what do you do for a living?

>> Um, well, I'm a procure I'm a procurement specialist for an an industrial supply company. >> Okay. And what is what does a move up the ladder look like? Are there a couple rungs of a ladder above your position in your current company?

Um, next level would probably be like a

super uh supervisor. Um, but all other positions would require me to relocate to the East Coast and I can't do that.

>> I totally get that. So, what would it take to get the supervisor role and how much would that pay?

>> Um, it would require me to probably get

a bachelor's degree in in business. Um,

>> I doubt that. I would challenge that.

>> You should at least look into that. >> You're you're probably right. Uh uh >> here's my point, Dustin. The fact that you're And listen, it sounded even when I say that, I know sometimes I feel like, well, that was a little bold, Ken.

But I mean, you got to look into it. And when you go, I think it would require a bachelor. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But you owe it to yourself and your child

to look into it because where we are, if

we've got a rung on the ladder that we can get to through good work and raising our hands saying, "Hey, I'd like to do this." Uh, and it doesn't require additional schooling. And let's say it pays you an additional 15, 20, 30 grand.

I mean, you owe it to yourself and your kid to look into it. Yes.

>> Yeah. And I have. And uh and the my

company actually does offer a tuition reimbursement plan and I thought yes this is finally my ticket and you know I went to my parents with it and said hey you know I can do this if you can just you know help me out with child care you know I can get this knocked out in like maybe five four or five years and uh

we'll be you know me and my kiddo will be set and their reaction was like no

your child needs you you know you can't go this route and >> okay and I hate that for you. I feel like a I feel like a deflated balloon.

I'm sure that there's ways that I can reinflate myself. I just need to figure out what what it is. >> Well, for one thing, getting healthy because you've been hurt and there's nothing wrong with you. You got somebody did a number on your heart and that's tough and you sound like that, by the way. And I'm not picking on you. I I actually feel for you. So, in this step

here, it's like, okay, whatever it's going to take for you to get healthy, sitting down with a therapist and get some healing and overcoming that and beginning to see, oh, wait, there's more opportunity than just the company you're at. You know, I asked you to look into it and you're like, well, you're probably right, but then I looked into this. There's still some uncertainty.

And I think you've got to take control of your life and your situation. But I want to get back to the money thing real quick, George. >> Okay. >> Uh because we got about a minute with you, George. back to because I think you need to be looking for for income. I know you're taking care of your boy, but you got to be looking for income growth and I also think you're I mean just based on a quick search, I think you're underpaid for the role that you're in.

Um I think it should be closer to 60 and 90 and so you might be looking for other roles. That might mean a local move. It doesn't mean to the east coast. Maybe it's a different field, but you're still in the procurement world.

So, I would be looking at that and see what can I do without needing to go back to school right now because right now we just need to clean up this debt at the very least and get an emergency fund. And I don't think the house is a thing that's like on fire right now where you need to go sell it tomorrow.

You're going to pay that in rent in your area, I assume.

>> Correct. >> Yeah, pretty much. >> And so that's not going to solve a lot other than taking some equity to knock out the debt, which will knock out a few payments. But you can debt snowball your way out of this with a good side hustle and be out of debt.

Let's see. You got 28K in debt, you're making 60K, you could be done in 18 months. >> That's right. So, we we want you to stay in the house for now.

I think that's good for you long term, but you got to increase your income. That's the issue here. It's not the house, it's an income problem. And uh we're rooting for you, man.

>> Yeah. Sorry, Dustin, but again, part of this is you do what you got to do to be able to afford to sit with a good counselor, man, and get get healing on the other side of this heartbreak, and you'll be a different man, and life will be better, too. Thank you.

there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 88. If You Want To Do Great Things You Need To Do Hard Things First | October 6, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. So

excited to have you with us. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in.88255225

alongside the fabulous, the incomparable

Jade Warshaw. I am >> Thank you, my friend. >> Ken Coleman. Just happy to be in her presence, folks. It's going to be good.

Fresh off of Orlando. We might talk a little bit about that. We'll see. Land Orlando, I can't speak now. And Chicago, >> shy town. >> Uh couple live events. So much fun. We are feeling the juice from those two great crowds. Jessica is up in Arkansas.

Jessica, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good morning or good afternoon. I'm

sitting at just a tad bit under a million dollars in debt. um almost 200

of that is unsecured and we were

contemplating bankruptcy, but my faith

tells me that I should be paying all this and I know I should. Um and I'm just I guess I'm trying to see if there's a light at the end of the tunnel for us. >> There's always hope. >> Why don't you lay it out for us? Give us the whole 1 million in debt. What is

that? So 210 is unsecured personal loans. 83

um of that 210 is credit cards.

Um the house is 658.

>> Okay. >> And then there's two vehicles that um

there's two vehicles in there. One's almost paid off and then the other one is very very upside down.

>> Tell us the amounts. Uh the first and the second.

One is we owe 12,000 on it and the other

one is 59,000.

>> And how much do you know off the top of your head what that 59,0001 is worth?

>> Um 35 >> girlfriend. Okay. Um how much do you guys earn? It's you and your husband.

>> Yes. And he is in a job transition. Um

so we were making over 300. Now we're at

sitting at about 259 a year.

>> Okay, good. That's Listen, there's your light at the end of the tunnel right there. Is if you had told me that your shovel was 60 or 70,000, I'd be really

hurting with you. Um, but the good news is you have a really great shovel, uh, 259, and you said that's with or without

the job loss.

>> That's with the job loss. And his new job is going to be commission only. So, we haven't we don't know what that's going to look like yet. It could be amazing. >> I believe you make 259.

>> Um, we have some retirement funds in

there um from military and

>> disability. How much of that is the military? Like how much of that is your income and how much of that is like pension type stuff?

>> About half. >> Okay, good. That is really really really really really good news. Um, tell me about the 210,000. Was this a business loan? What What was that money for?

>> It was a little bit of everything, honestly. It was um some bad business

endeavors, me trying to be a serial entrepreneur. Okay. >> It was um some bad financial decisions

just in general. Um imposttor syndrome.

I took took a fantastic career

opportunity and I just kind of um

shopped my way through the imposttor syndrome until I got to therapy.

>> Okay. >> And uh so that was some bad financial decisions there, luxury shopping >> and then um I took over I took out two

personal loans to clear my husband's credit card debt um as well. So that's

what all that is. This is like classic mo money mo problems, right? This is you had a big income and so you could afford to make bigger mistakes, right? But really when we boil it down, Ken, this ratio-wise, it's the same call we always hear, right?

>> So that's the good news is, you know, you've got uh 260,000 in income right

now. It's going to go up exponentially.

And you got, you know, uh, I'm not counting the mortgage debt because when we're in baby step two, which is the step where you're paying off all the consumer debt, we really don't count the mortgage. So, can you tell me how much your monthly mortgage payment is so I can see what percentage of your life it is? >> 3938. >> Okay.

And so, that's going to be fine with what you're bringing home. So, that the mortgage is not the problem. And I just wanted to explain that to you. It's no more than 25% of your take-home.

So, that's not the issue. The problem is you feel overwhelmed because no matter how you slice it, if you if you tell somebody you have $300,000 of debt, that that's a lot, right? >> Yeah.

>> Yes. I actually did it probably about 20 years ago and I the only debt I carried up until three years ago was a mortgage and a car payment.

>> Um and I would usually pay the car payment, you know, double or whatever.

>> Yeah. >> Well, are you Okay, we get that. But let's talk about the now because your question is, is there a light at the end of the tunnel? The answer is yes, if you're willing to look for it. And so, are you done now? >> Are you done? Is this the last time you're ever going to do this?

>> Oh, for sure. >> Okay. I I can't do this again.

>> Okay. So, um, in this situation, my take is I would try to get massive momentum, you know, and Jade can speak to this.

I'm going to give it back to her quickly because she and Sam paid off $500,000 in

debt. So, you got the perfect person to talk to today. But here's my only thing that I would say and I'll hand the baton back to you, Jade. I think they need a momentum >> play like a big one.

>> And so I would be attacking. I would try to get rid of the $59,000 car payment >> instantly. >> Like even if they go upside down, you can tell her how we do it, but I I I just think there needs to be a dramatic move. I don't know what your take is having done this yourself. >> No, I I agree uh with Ken 100%. you do

you need to do something that's going to shake you uh emotionally that's going to shake you financially that's going to almost like it's like the gun going off of the race, right? And I I agree with Ken. Um you guys need to pull together

and I mean with your income in a in a couple of short months, pull together that 24,000 that you're upside down on this vehicle and get out of it and you

know drive the $12,000 vehicle for a while. Figure out a plan to save up another you know couple thousand to get you a beater. And here's the thing. I'm gonna be 100% straight with you. You're

used to making a lot of money. When you get a beater, it's gonna mess with your ego big time because in your mind, you're going to go, "Wait a minute. I work too hard to be driving a car like this. Wait a minute.

Nobody at my work drives a car like this or nobody in my social circle." Right? Cuz you start hanging out with who you earn money with, right? And so, you're going to be the one and it is going to create questions and it's your choice whether you answer those questions. But I'm just letting you know right now, Jessica, that's going to happen.

And there's going to be an inongruency for a while with the how hard I'm working and how much money I'm earning versus the lifestyle I'm living. And I'm telling you that as a person who did that for quite a while. And that's going to be so good for your soul because that's what's going to cause you never to do this again. You're going to go, "Oh my gosh, I never want to feel that again." >> Seriously, I think it's right.

And you know, not trying to steal too much of your story, but I mean, Sam and I were hanging out last night, Jade Tesla, and he reminded me you guys had one car for a long time.

>> Yeah, but that was just cuz you adjusted to it. >> I did. >> But during the massive debt payoff, you guys were one car family. So, >> but you said it, Ken. We got used to it.

>> That's right. You you did fine.

>> You get used to anything, >> right? Right. You could be making multiple six figures and get used to whatever lifestyle you create. So >> yeah, I did. That's hilarious to me that you were here for a year before you got wheels. >> And even still, I was a little reluctant. I was like, we don't need it.

>> Listen now. Get me that get me that G Wagon. I'm ready, Ken. >> Come on.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, April is up next in Ohio.

April, how can we help you today?

>> Hi guys, thanks for taking my call. So, I am recently divorced, 44 years old. I

make 50,000 a year. I have one debt and

it's a car and I owe 29,000 on it. And I

have to decide whether I want to keep

the car, sell the car, pay the car off,

or what to do with the bag on car because I want to be completely out of debt and I want to eventually buy a house. So >> tell us how much the car is worth right now on the open market.

>> About 23 probably.

>> So upside down six. Do you have any cash?

>> I have 57,000 in the bank.

>> Oh, this is a >> That's the only Yeah. Sorry. Is that the only debt you have?

>> Is >> it is the only debt I have now. >> Okay. Go ahead, Jade. Yeah. Okay.

>> In the in the infamous words of King Coleman, this is what I'd call a nothing burger. >> Oh, yeah. >> Which means there's no problem here.

>> That's right. >> You can decide today to just pay it off.

Well, >> you've got the money, >> right? Why Why are you not doing that?

What's stopping? >> Well, because I'm trying to I'm trying to make sure I have enough money for a down payment on a house. Got it.

>> So, and so in the the Jeep is currently

my ex-husband's name. So, I have to either refinance at my name, pay it off, get it titled to my name, or I thought about, you know, living like no one else so I can live like no one else and selling the dag on thing and driving the junker for a little while. But, I mean, I don't really want to do that cuz my car is reliable. It's only got 50,000 miles on it. like it's a good vehicle.

Um it's not really the vehicle I wanted when I purchased it, >> but it's a good vehicle.

>> It's in his name.

>> It's in his name. Yeah. >> Well, either way. Yeah. Either way, you've got to if it's going to be your car, you've got to move it to your name and make sure that you're the one who gets the >> the title and everything like that.

>> You don't have to eat up most of the 57.

I get what you're saying. So, you said you're upside down 6K. So, if you sell

it for 23. Okay. And then we take the

six out of the 57. That leaves us with 51 and we we're whole on the car. And then I'm telling you right now, like this is the spiritual gift that I have that nobody knows except for James Charles. He can attest to this. I could find you a car right now >> for 10 grand >> that is extremely functional. It's not an absolute piece of crap on wheels and it will get you through it. And and let's say now you're down to 41,000.

You're debtree. You've got a serviceable

car. More than enough in the emergency fund, Jade, to fix the $10,000 car. I

mean, you could go 12 >> and get a very serviceable car. And now

you're debt-free emergency fund and now on to baby step 3B, which is saving for the house. Unless I'm missing something, um there's no reason for you to hold on to this money because we're not telling you to go empty it >> or even cut it in half. >> Right. Right. So, you think your advice

then would be to sell the Jeep, buy something cheaper? Yeah. And just take the 6,000 loss instead of paying it off completely. >> Oh, I thought the 6,000 is paying it off completely. You're going to sell it for 23. >> Mhm. >> Well, I mean to keep it. I mean, your your advice is to sell it instead of keep it. >> I would personally. I would.

>> Oh, okay. >> Uh >> because it's attached to him. I'll explain my reasoning. There's no right or wrong on this is what I'm guessing you're going to say. Yeah, >> you can keep it and pay it off. Like to Jade's point, you could pay the entire 29 down today out of the 57. Now you got

yourself a car that you're used to >> and and yada yada yada.

>> Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is because yeah, Ken is right. It's too

much of your take-home pay. Like, it's too much of your pay. It's more than it's more than 50% >> and you probably would not have bought this car if you were just you, right?

you would have bought something a more affordable >> and my advice was based on helping you save for the house.

>> So I gave you the advice to spend the least amount of money but still be moving forward in your life.

>> Gotcha. >> You tracking with me? So you sell it, you get 23 for it, you're going to come out of pocket six to take care of the loan now. Now right >> you just got a bunch of money back. What's that car payment every month?

>> 563. Hey, >> girl. I That's That's like uh almost eight grand a month. I mean, a year we just saved you. Now Now, >> okay, you go buy a $10,000 car

and and you're still left with $47,000 the way I added it up earlier. And so, you still got a real nice uh case of

momentum here because you're coming out of the divorce. We got rid of a car with your ex's name on it.

>> It's too much car for you.

>> All the things. So that's why I gave you that plan because that is what I would do if I were you. That's what I would do. >> And it's going to feel good getting your own I almost said set of wheels and then that felt very retro. You're going to feel good getting your own >> cuz she hangs out with me. That's me. That's my old influence on you.

>> Whip. You got to feel good in your own whip. >> That's not it either. >> Yes. Exactly. You know what I mean?

Okay. Awesome. Oh, that helps so much. I thought that's what you guys would say, but I wanted to just make sure because I was literally going to call and just pay that off today. And then I'm like, >> do I really want to do that though? I really want car. So, >> think about, see, here's the thing. We get rid of a car attached to a chapter of your life that's over. That's not the single reason for this, but it's a good reason. >> Yeah. >> And you, it's all about momentum.

>> Many times our advice >> is about momentum. getting that and boy,

just getting rid of that $560 car payment. >> That's a lot. >> That's gonna feel great. Getting rid of that other car >> and now you go get your own thing and and you go, I'm sacrificing on a $10,000 car because I want my own house.

>> I like it. >> Eye on the prize. And and so if I am

sacrificing jade in the short term

>> to see that it's going to give me a absolutely legitimate shot at the long term that I desire. >> Man, that feels good. I'm in. You don't have to talk me into that kind of a sacrifice. >> And the other thing is is I like to say this and I get too excited about this, I know, but I can't begin to tell you how

many decent cars there are out there for 10, 12, $15,000. And most Americans are just they think they're above it.

>> Yeah. I don't understand. I mean, I get it. I get it. It's a it's a status symbol, right? It's >> I totally understand. >> But I've said it before, I'll say it again, Ken. You You get in the car and

>> yeah, you ride to work, but other It's sitting outside. And most of us, let's be honest, most people in America, if you have a garage, it's filled up with junk. and you let that beautiful Mercedes or that beautiful Acura or whatever you drive sit outside, get in the rain, get in the in the snow, and then when you go to work, it sits in the parking lot. Yeah. >> And no one is walking in the parking lot going, "Oh, I wonder if that's Bob's sedan." Right. No one cares.

>> Nobody cares. And I'll tell you this couple things, and Jade can back me up on this. She knows what I drive. It would surprise a lot of people what I drive. Uh I drive an older used car.

It's a fabulous little Mercedes. Uh it looks fantastic. Looks better. looks it looks newer than it is. But I'll tell you this, nobody, and I mean nobody,

>> pulls up next to me at the stoplight and goes, "Oh, look at that Ken Coleman over there.

>> I'm not sure why he's driving that late model there." What? Nobody cares. Nobody even notices me on the interstate, >> right? >> So, you know, I choose to do that because I've got higher priorities.

>> Yeah. I I >> my money my money is in other places and you know, >> I do. And so, you know, for me, it it

has always been functionality over status when it comes to a car. Now, there's a there's a day coming.

>> Oh, it's coming. >> When I get all the kids off the payroll, >> G Wagon. >> Oh, man. Yeah.

>> They see me rolling. >> I'm going to have a car with a trumpet on it just so everybody knows I'm coming. >> Not a horn, like a Yeah. Like, oh, here

comes Coleman. He wants everybody to know that his kids are out of the house.

It's going to be like a It's going to be like a By the way, at the uh Randy Show live. >> Yeah. >> I learned a new term. >> Hit me. >> I didn't know there was such a thing as a push present.

>> I'm wearing mine right now.

>> Well, I It's ridiculous.

>> What made you transition to that?

>> Because I'm going to have >> a baby. >> A empty nest present for myself.

>> When I get the kids off the payroll, James, >> you going in. Daddy is gonna go buy himself a really fun toy and just say,

"It's mine because I've taken care of everybody else forever." Thank you, ma'am. There's a lady out there who's given me a really solid head nod.

>> I like that. You get a retirement present. You get a present when you have babies.

When they graduate, >> it's an empty nest present. Boy, Stacy is such a lucky lady.

>> Touche, sir. That's great. >> Touche. She'll get something, too.

>> Yeah. What are we talking? I don't know.

I'm making it up on the spot. I don't want to I don't want to commit. >> Feels expensive. Feels >> It's gonna be expensive. >> Hey, side note though. I think we should have a spin-off show where you people call in and you find them used cars live on the air and then send I would love to do that. I'd love to be your used car.

Ken's cars. I like that. It's got a nice little ring to it. All right, we'll talk about it. We'll see what happens, folks.

Stay tuned for that wildly popular segment.

[Music]

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All right, folks. The all new. All new.

And I say when I say all new, I mean all new. >> Brand spanking. >> Yeah. Every dollar is here. And boy oh boy is it it's worth all the hype. Uh

you can watch the premiere on our YouTube channel to actually see how every dollar works. It's more than a budgeting app. Uh we've got all of the the great things that you knew if you've been around for a while about Financial Peace University. Actual coaching. So

many great prompts. I mean it's just there for you. People are finding thousands of dollars in margin in just 15 minutes just through the prompts and the pathway that we're walking you through. So, imagine how you could how much you could find to put towards your money goals. Um, again, go to our YouTube channel, Ramsey Show, and we've got the premiere there. Jade Warshaw, uh, Rachel Cruz, George Camel, our money personalities did a great job with that.

Super interactive. >> You need to watch it because it really does explain. I mean, we can't do it justice just talking about it for a second, but that premiere will do it justice. >> Yeah. So fun. Kevin is now joining us in Miami, Florida. Kevin, how can we help today?

>> Well, hi. I'm just calling because I I recently graduated from grad school and

I have some loans and debt, I guess you can say. So, I'm kind of transitioning

in life and being like a student basically and joining the workforce. So, I just wanted some like advice and like some wisdom, I guess you can I can take with me as I start this new stage of

life. >> Okay. How much uh how much debt do you have?

>> So, it's me and my wife, which my wife is still in grad school. She's in her currently her second year of grad school. And it's I have a total of

180,000 and 140 of it. from my student loans and

then 15,000 is from her student loans

and then we have a total of 16,000 in credit card. Yeah.

>> Do you have a job? >> Um but maybe um so it took me a while to

get licensed in my state. So I just got

approved to be working in my state.

>> Licensed to do what?

>> Uh pharmacy.

>> Okay. So I appreciate that you're licensed now. Do you have a job?

>> Yeah, I just got a a job yesterday.

>> Oh, congratulations.

>> Yeah. So, I start that job in two weeks.

>> Um, do me a favor.

>> Do me a favor. Can you adjust your phone? I feel like you've got a sock over your phone.

>> Oh. Uh, can you hear better now?

>> It's a little bit better. Um, sorry, I'm

really struggling. My ADHD is like flaring. Um, how much are you going to make as a pharmacist?

>> Uh, so the job I have is it's not full-time or part-time. It's basically as needed uh for them. So the hours aren't guaranteed, but I'll be making $71 an hour.

>> $71 an hour. Do you have any sense on how many hours you're going to get? Cuz I don't like the way this sounds for a guy who's got all this debt.

Yeah, honestly saying, but I I've been applying to all these places and this is basically the only one that really got back to me, >> right? >> But you understand like that's not a great deal. You don't even know how many hours you're going to be working two weeks from now.

>> Yeah. I mean, I during the training period, I'll be getting 10 10 training

training days, I guess you could say.

>> Mhm. >> So, I'll for sure have that. And then after that, how it was explained to me, there's some weeks I'm going to be making doing like 20 hours in a week and then there's some weeks I'm going to be doing like 40 hours in a week. So, >> okay. So, you understand though that you've got to be more resourceful right now. That means you're working at a coffee shop. You're working two, three, four jobs right now.

>> Yes. >> While, by the way, looking for a better pharmacist gig >> because this is going to eat you alive.

what what is your total uh monthly bills

when it comes to just these loans, all this stuff combined?

>> So, the loans are still in grace right now and I don't start the repayment of it till I guess December.

>> Okay. >> So, >> that's not long, >> brother. December is is literally around the corner. Okay.

>> Exactly. So, that's one of the reasons I'm calling because it's it's like

>> uh >> income, my friend. Listen, our debt snowball plan, I bring Jade in on this, but I'll just say this. Income, income, income is your issue right now.

>> You got a wife who's in grad school. I don't know how much she can work with the grad school load. So, I'm being realistic there. I don't know what she can do.

So, if she can't do much or anything, I mean, you're the one that's got to be working. And when I said two, three, and four jobs, I wasn't just saying it, you know, to hear myself think and talk. you've got to bring in income because December is coming quickly and it's going to be a rude awakening.

Jade will walk you through it step by step what you have to do right now.

>> Yeah, there's two there's two things at play here and Ken said the first one, you need money like you got to have money coming in and then the second thing, sure you can tighten up uh your spending and tighten up your budget and and those sorts of things. By the way, we'll make sure that we give you a budget. We'll give you every dollar before you get off this call because you need it. Um, but that is the equation.

You guys have a hole here and you dug the hole and now you have to do the work to get out of it. There's not really um an easy button here. I wish there was.

If there was, I would slide it your way, but there's not. So, it it is what Ken said, which is probably wasn't what you planned, right? We all plan I'm just going to get a great job right away and I'll be just be able to get out of it. But >> that's not the reality here. And a part of this I would say uh of the equation I

would say 80% of you doing this is just

accepting that this is what must be done. And if you can do that then you can go about the business of actually doing the actions. So part of it is saying hey if I want to get where I want to go there's part of this I just have to accept. It's like it's like running a marathon Ken.

>> Yeah. Oh >> when Sam and I ran our first marathon it's like in your head you go I know I want to do this. This race seems good. I'll feel great when it's all over.

I want to accomplish this. And then when you start the training, you're like, "Oh, wait a minute.

day." And it gets progressively harder and what if I get injured and my body hurts and all these things. And half the battle of running a marathon, which in this case, your dead is the marathon.

Half the battle is just going, "Hey, >> this is what must be true for this amount of time. And if I just embrace it and do it, the finish line will be there." That's right. The finish line is there, but if you want to cross it with any amount of grace or style or good

timing, then you have to embrace the training. And that's just how it works.

>> Hard things.

I >> If you want great things, I promise you, you're going to have to endure hard things. >> I I don't care if it's athletically. I don't care if it's wanting to start a business and grow it and become self-employed. I don't care if it's I want to go into ministry and and and touch lives and pour my heart out for I you pick any endeavor physical, emotional, spiritual, financial endeavor. If you want to be great or do something significant, forget great. Sometimes we we make great too too like

uh you know, oh it's about great great.

If you want to do something significant, >> I can tell you it's on the other side of hard things, >> man. Can't avoid it.

>> You know, >> you cannot it's it's unavoidable.

>> Yeah. And it's like sometimes we like, oh, success and all the things. Uh, and we were helping people with money success, work success, relationship success. That's what we're about here.

But I'm just going to tell you something. I've been married 27 years.

As James said earlier, God bless Stacy.

I mean, the woman has had to endure some hard things >> to make it this far, you know? I mean, it's just it is what it is.

>> But there's also, and let's break it down further because there's the hard things that we want to do. Like we say, I'm going to go to school and I know that's going to be a challenge and I know it's going to like there's the hard things we want to do, but there are then the hard things we don't want to do and those are part of it. >> Oh yeah. >> And I think that's really the main >> Yeah.

>> You know where it disconnects. It's like wait a second.

>> Correct. Yeah. It's like all that training and everything or I'd rather have been home watching football elbow deep in some salsa. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. I mean, that's what I want to do, but nobody wants to be out there pounding the pavement, putting the effort in. So, uh, back to this situation. Um, especially young couples or young people coming right out of this.

I got this degree. It's such a huge accomplishment. I don't want to in any way downplay it, >> and you think, okay, I just did all this work and now what? Now what is I got to pay it off >> or else I'm going to be miserable.

And you can't just go, well, I applied to all these different places. I got a part-time pharmacy thing. No.

in. >> Now I gotta go. >> I got my foot in the door, but it's not a great gig. So now I got to go work four other jobs to be able to take care of my wife and I who she's in grad school. Like this is the reality. So I wish we again had an easy fix, but we don't. Work the baby steps. And working the baby steps, it's a simple process, but it is extremely difficult. Hard hats

are required.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? If you'd like to know where you are, how you're tracking, take a quick quiz, and you can check your progress and get a personalized plan to

keep that momentum going, you can head to our show notes and click on the link.

Are you on track with the baby steps?

Complete the quiz and it gives you a really fun update and uh some great inspiration. Austin is now joining us in

Florida. Austin, how can we help?

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Well, we're having a blast today. What's going on with you? >> Good, good. Hey, listen. So, I was up at the bank the other day and uh I was just moving some money around and whatnot.

I've been trying to get out of debt.

I've been doing very good over the last um 11 months. I paid off $22,000.

>> Wow. >> Good job. >> Yeah. So, I've been trying. I've got, you know, $8,900 bucks left to go. I'll be completely debtree. And the lady up

there at the bank was telling me I need to get a credit card to get my credit score to have reoccurring payments on my

credit so I can get a house because I'm looking, you know, in the next two years to get a house. and I've been working the Ramsay plan and I don't want to go for the credit, but I'm stuck right now because I'm so close to having a good credit score >> opposed to having no credit score. So, I need >> I need somebody with a little >> You need to talk to Jade. You need to listen to Jade, not the nice lady at the bank.

Yeah, >> the nice lady at the bank has ulterior motives. No matter how sweet and bubbly she was, and I can just picture her, she was probably just as sweet as sugar. and she probably had a lot of credibility because she swayed you a little bit.

So glad you called today and I would like you to never listen to that lady again and I'd like you to listen to this lady. So with no further ado, take it away. >> She probably also had a set of assumptions that you would go to that bank to get the loan for your mortgage when the time is. >> I think that's what she was doing.

>> So >> she she thought >> she thought Listen, you already know the answer, Austin. I can hear it in your voice. Um, but for you and really more so for the benefit of folks listening, us and you know if you've been hanging out with us for a little while, you know we teach all the time. The credit score is not necessary. And I'll reiterate that with you again. I get it. Um,

society teaches us this from a very young age, right? We're just bombarded with the message, right? Never leave home without it, right? And you're you're actually scared to leave home without your Mastercard, right? So, I get it. Um, but I like to remind people

that the only reason you're hearing that message so much is because there's money on the other end of it, >> you know, for uh businesses and for banks. What we teach is actually just as true. The truth is, yeah, >> you can have a great credit score and go buy a house. That that is true. There's no falsehood to that. But it's also true and just as true that you can have a zero credit score and go and buy a home.

And America needs to know this, right?

There are companies that do uh manual

underwriting which say hey we're not looking at a credit score we're simply looking at how you manage your money and that does exist. So in that way having a zero credit score or an indeterminable credit score is the same really it's better than having a good credit score because it doesn't have the stress and the debt attached to it. Right? And so that's how that happens.

And when that happens, now is the time.

That's when you can strike, right? You if you if if if your score hasn't rolled away yet and it's low, yes, you're going to have a problem. But once it hits zero, that's the sweet spot of when that happens. And we would always recommend Church Hill Mortgage to you.

They do mortgages in the majority of the United States. So, yeah, it could take a little due diligence. You hop on their website, do a little research, get connected with someone and start making your plan. And all they're going to want to know is what we're all kind of used to.

They're going to want to know your payubs, right? Show us your payubs. They're going to want to know, you know, can you keep the job? How long have you been at, you know, getting paid?

And if maybe if you're, you know, a small business like Sam and I were, they might want to see your tax returns, your business tax returns. That's fine. And then they're going going to want to see your trade lines. Uh have you been keeping up with your cell phone payment, your utility payment, and they want to see proof that you've been paying rent.

And that's really important for folks who are living at home. Make sure there's some paper trail to show, hey, I've been paying rent on time. Um even if it's to your parents, just make sure you're documenting that because that's really all you need.

basically the same process, Ken.

>> That's right. Exactly right. So, this is a myth that she just busted. And uh hope you get it, Austin.

Stand strong. You're going to stand strong and just smile and wave like the the penguins from Madagascar when when people hit you with these things. I mean, you know better, don't you? >> Yes, sir.

>> All right. So, you just got a master class. You don't need a credit score, do you, Austin? >> No, I do not.

And that's just I I was stuck because I didn't know if I needed it, you know, within the next two years or not. >> You know, that's why we're here. Quick question. >> Okay, >> another quick question if you got just a second.

>> Well, it's got to be fast. We got other people waiting.

>> Right. The ne the next question. My bank. So, I don't really want to bank there, but it's the closest one anywhere around where I'm living at and the Fair Winds is probably an hour and a half away from where I'm at.

>> What can I do with that? >> What's causing you to go into the bank all the time? Cuz I feel like >> So, like my my rent, everything is cash.

All that's a cash deal right now.

>> Why? >> So to get to get just because the where

it's at. I'm I'm renting out some property >> and we pay the landlord cash. So we're

saving up to get out of debt.

>> So everything I don't know that you have to >> Well, I I just I I don't know why you have to pay cash. I just I don't understand that. >> Let's talk about that. So, if you're doing cash as some sort of an envelope system to try to just like keep your piles of money separate and manage it better, that usually works better for things that you can easily pay cash for like groceries or maybe gas or uh things

like that. But I do find that things like rent or car payments, it is more

convenient to pay for them online. So,

unless you're receiving like your income as cash and then you would have to deposit it in the bank anyway. But if you're receiving your income as direct deposit, I would recommend keeping it as direct deposit. That way, you can bank at an establishment that you feel good about and do most of it online.

>> And Fairwinds can take great care of you. I mean, I I'd call them call them and go, "Hey, I live an hour away." Just let them walk you through it. But I I don't know that you have to do that. And I I just personally I I know it's 2025.

I just >> cash You got a problem with cash, Ken? I I I don't have a problem with it, but pain it just seems really inconvenient.

I mean, when he started off the call, he's like, "I was at the bank the other day and I was moving my money." I was like, "Did you go see, you know, the merkantile and get your eggs while you were there?" It felt very >> general store. >> Yeah. It felt like uh I'm not sure this is the best use of our time.

>> Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good Now, I do I will say if you are on baby step two and you're really trying to be on it, I do love cash for that purpose.

But again, just for like use it for the groceries. Yeah. where the budget rolling up with a wad of cash. I don't know if I feel good about that.

>> Nothing fundamentally wrong with it.

>> No, there's nothing. Well, his problem is there's no bank, >> right? And I'd love him to be with Fairwinds. And so, you know, if he's not having to drive, I can't remember the last time I had to go into the bank.

>> I try at all costs not to go into the bank. >> Yeah, they're never open. Have you noticed that? >> Actually, they are more now than ever.

I feel like it used to be like on Saturdays they'd be closed, but now they're open >> on Saturdays. I think so. Last >> the banks are open on Saturday. Everybody >> sometimes it's like until noon or something.

>> Yeah. Listen, I just remember >> not going to the bank on a Saturday. I promise you that right now there's too much football to be watched.

>> No comment. >> I'm not, you know, I need to get into the the football game. I haven't Let me

Yeah. I mean, I can't even tell you.

>> Yeah. All right. Very good. Anyway, the point is um that much cash, big transactions, a lot of cash. I just, you know, I don't know. I'd be careful. >> Rent feels like something you should pay online. Let's do it like that.

>> Yeah. And it protects you. You know, the online the banking for everyone's credit union. There's protections in using online banking, which I like. Yeah.

>> You know, and I'll tell you where I do like cash. When I'm buying a car for the kids. >> Oh. To just slap it on there on the table. >> My favorite move is the accordion. What say you? >> I call it the accordion. I lay it out on the hood of the car that I'm offering.

>> That is gangster, Ken Coleman.

>> I think I think it kind of is. I receive that because you're making an offer, right? >> Oh, yeah. They're asking this. I don't want to pay this. >> You just silently put it out there. >> Pull out the envelope and I do this number and I just kind of count it out on the hood trying under the guise of being accurate. But it's a hidden flex.

>> Y'all don't know that, Ken. It's a G.

That's how I bought my uh last kid's car. Nice old lady counted it out for you. Take it or leave it. What is she going to do?

>> Make you an offer you can refuse.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside

Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Steve is now joining us in Columbia, South Carolina. Steve, how can we help today?

>> Yeah, hi Ken. Hi Jay. It's great to be speaking with you guys today. >> Yeah, good to talk to you. Um, so I've got a uh uh I'm on the cusp of finalizing a divorce and we came to a mediated settlement and as part of it um

basically there's a 50/50 split of the 401k but then I also have to come up with 100,000 in cash in 90 days to buy

her out of the house and then additionally there's 150k um lump sum

alimony payment over five years. So kind

of two questions is basically how would you guys recommend coming with the 100k because uh I got some advice from the lawyers that I didn't really appreciate and clearly they weren't part of the Ramsey program and uh and then I treat

the alimony payment going forward. Do I treat it as a debt in the baby steps or

as like a line item in the budget going forward? >> Why don't we address that one first?

Jade, tell me about where that goes in the budget. >> Uh the 150 over five years. Have you calculated it out and seen what that looks like monthly?

>> Yes. So about 2500 a month.

>> Can you af you afford that?

>> And it and it fits. Yeah.

>> Okay, good. So yeah, that's a line item on the budget. Um I would do it that way, especially if you can afford it. What's your income?

>> Uh about 180 a year.

>> Okay, good. >> It ends up being about about like 8 8,000 a month. >> Okay. Okay. So >> the 100K in 90 days to buy out the house. >> Yeah. Why' you agree to that?

>> Uh so it's it's definitely definitely the house. Uh it's um uh terms of

everything else available in the area.

Uh there's there's no way I'd be getting anything close to this. And um

>> but I'm talking about the the term the time >> like you do you have a hundred do you have $100,000?

>> Yeah. So that's exactly it. I think I think it was a matter of kind of signing it and not really paying attention to that 90 days. Um, I've got about 50 to 55K in cash right now.

>> Okay. Well, that's a good start. How much is your car worth?

>> Uh, so, uh, not much. So, it's a 2007

Subaru Forester. So, >> what happens if Let's come at this thing from another angle. Just I'm trying to figure this out for you. What happens if in 90 days you don't have 100K? What what what is the kick in in the contract? What What the agreement?

Uh, so it's just part of the court order. So I I think it'd be going going back back in front of the judge.

>> I think that's your best bet. This was a this was a bad negotiation on your part or on your lawyer's part because you don't you can't get the money in 90 days. And so when this goes back in front of the court, you need to have a better plan of what that is. Um, >> so >> why why not sell the deal? I was going to say >> the original well the the original thought was uh uh basically kind of part of the quadro from the rest of the 401k.

So my half of the 401k use part of it to be able to pay her off. >> That was your plan.

>> That was the that was the original thought. And then again uh the the lawyers even suggested doing a home equity loan which I flat out just rejected. And that was a bad idea >> because you have to put yourself you have to reverse engineer like you have to reverse the situation and say if I were in any other setting would I borrow from my 401k to buy a house? No, you wouldn't. Would I take out a personal loan, you know, to to up the Annie on my

house? No, you wouldn't. Um, and that's the way I'm looking at it. I think that

you either need to give yourself more time if this is like something that you're like, I love this house. I don't want to give it up. I'm never going to have a house like this again. You either need to give yourself more time. I mean, I've talked to people where there's years to come up with the money. Not that I want you linked to her for that long, but uh Do you have kids?

>> Uh adult kids. So, she's in college now, but Yep. >> Okay. So, where's your ex going? She's just going to go rent somewhere?

>> Uh starting a new career in another state. >> Okay. Here's here I'm gonna come back to this because I I now again I've never walked through this before, so Jade and I are kind of on the same page. about you could do maybe a cash out refi. I don't know if there's because you have to take her name off it anyway. >> I I would sell the house. And do you have any equity in it at all?

>> Yeah. And that's basically what I'm buying buying out of. >> How much equity do you have in the home?

>> Uh about 200k in equity.

>> So why wouldn't you I mean >> I I don't understand given that equity stake that you have. This is just a house and it's got a bunch of pain attached to it. you are single, you got

all this money that you that you're going to have to pay out uh over five years. I I personally, and again, I

don't know what you think about this, but >> I view it a little differently. >> I know. Well, >> I'm giving you another train of thought. I I'm not going to advocate for my point of view. I'm going to say if it were me, I'd sell the house.

>> If if Are there kids involved?

>> I know exactly what's been going on in my brain. So, >> to sell it.

>> No, no, no, no. Just the back and forth.

So there's Yeah, like you said, there's there's >> I like a clean start in this situation.

>> There's there's that, but then there's also I mean, you did make a good point earlier where you said with the market and when you bought this house, you might not be able to get something like that again. And I do feel that if emotionally there's not the attachment that Ken and

I think there might be, and you want to keep the house, yeah, standard is you would refi, get her name off of it, and then you would pull the cash out when you refi, and then she would get her portion. The only reason I kind of disagreed with Ken's sentiment initially is because the hundred,000 is her money.

It's not you giving a h 100,000 of your money at this point now. That is her money because you're separate. So there's a different way to look at that.

It's like I'm just I'm just giving her her money. I'm not giving away my money if that makes sense. Um >> right. >> So that's if you want to do the 90-day

deal, that's how you would get it. Um

but Ken has a good point. Do you really want to be in this house or is it worth it to you to maybe get less house and have a fresh start? That's the question. Only you can answer that. >> Yeah. >> Or rent for a bit. I mean, your life's not over.

>> So, >> yeah, I I definitely know that it's starting starting over, but Yep.

>> Yeah. And it's not over. It's starting over. And so, there's a whole lot of new things coming your way. So, again, I don't want to advocate for it. That may be too aggressive. >> How long were you married? >> You know, >> uh 20 years. >> 20 years. Oh, listen. Ken may have a point. Are the kids? Do you have kids?

>> Yeah, they remember they got the >> Oh, that's right. That's right. >> Is it just one? >> College. Yeah, just one.

>> Yeah. You got your work cut out for you in in terms of sentimental thoughts versus fresh start thoughts.

>> I mean, you make a good entry. >> I've been working through those. >> You make here here's I'm not advocating, but I am going to because I I like when you push back, so keep pushing on this.

But in your shoes, if you sell this house, then you're able to uh pay her

her money and have that done. Set aside, put it away, get it over with. That's what I would do. I would I would want a clean break if I could do it. And I'm just looking at the numbers. You're going to have to pay her uh a h 100,000 in 90

days, and then you got 150, which is alimony, over five years. Um that's a

lot of money coming out of your pocket.

It could be nice to have a smaller.

>> And I'm just saying I might rent for a year, reset my life. I don't think renting for 12 months is a bad idea for a guy in your shoes.

>> Get rid of the house. Move on into a new

chapter of life. >> And another Okay, I'm going to throw something else in there. And this is soon, so don't don't be mad at me, but

you'll move on at some point and meet another lovely lady. Do you want to bring her into that house or do you want to bring her into, you know, fresh start, Steve?

>> Yeah. So, we'll see about that one, but sure. >> I I know I jumped ahead, but do you see what I'm saying? Like there's Begin with the end in mind is what I'm saying.

>> Yeah. I I don't know. I don't know why I feel that way, but that's what I would do in that situation. And just start fresh. You're not wrong. Start fresh.

Get her to the hundred,000. That's her money to your point.

>> And now work on the rest of it.

>> Oh, divorce sucks. take that for you.

>> Yeah, me too.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Chris who's joining us now in North Carolina. Chris, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how you doing? Um, so yeah, um, I, uh, got sick before

COVID and I was bedridden for three years and went through a financial problem real bad. Uh, lost my business,

had credit card debt go crazy. And

couple years later now, it's coming back to haunt me. I just now was able to start working again. Clearly two months in and I've got uh haven't been served

yet, but they're trying to serve me with judgment. I don't have any assets before

all this happened. I turned my house over to my wife and my uh property over

to daughter. So, have no assets to worry

about that. Um I guess my question is should I >> go through with a bankruptcy before I meet the um salary yearly salary requirement

to do so or should I not do bankruptcy and wait to see what happens?

>> Short answer is we're not doing the bankruptcy. But tell me give us more context. What caused you to be sick for three years? Is that over and done or can that come back?

>> Um it's possible. I had Lyme disease and

I didn't know that I had it. I was undiagnosed and then when I got COVID, it dropped my immune system enough to make both of them a problem. And by the

time they found it, it went to my heart, my brain, and >> I had to be on a year of treatment and I was still >> just about two years, I was completely bedridden and then eventually just slowly started getting better. >> And your wife, did your wife leave you during that time? You said you left that gave her the house. What does that mean?

>> No, no, no. We're not legally married.

So, um, so we're, uh, so luckily for

her, she doesn't have to deal with that financial part. Now, we've been together this whole time. Um, >> so you're living with >> Why did you call her your wife? >> Yeah. I'm confused.

>> What's that? >> Why did you call her your wife and then just tell Jay that you're not married?

>> Well, I guess that What would you call a significant other then? >> A girlfriend. >> Is that the proper terminology? I just say wife. >> Okay. I'm not trying to Okay. I'm not trying to get too technical. I didn't know if there was another part of the story that we needed to know about.

>> So, okay. So, your significant other, you've been together a long time. Um, everything's in her name is what you're saying. So, you you literally legally have no assets, >> correct? >> Okay. So, you've just gotten back to work. What are you What kind of work do you do now? And what are you earning?

Um, so, uh, project manager and it's

130,000 a year. >> That's good news.

>> And how much is the debt?

>> Definitely.

>> Um, I think it's like around 70 80,000

something like that. >> Okay. So, first >> half some is credit card, some is loan.

>> Okay. So, first your homework from from me tonight anyway is I want you to go and find out exactly how much you owe. I want you to have it written down. This much is credit cards.

This much is medical. This much is, you know, personal loan. So you get a sense of what it is and the amounts because the way we're going to attack this is what we call the debt snowball where you list them smallest to largest and you pay minimum payments on everything and you know put it as part of your monthly budget and then whatever money you have left in margin which is your extra money. All the extra money goes to the smallest debt.

So, let's say you have a medical bill and one of them's only, you know, $800. You could essentially knock that $800 bill out in one shot.

then, you know, you just keep working through them like that. So, $130,000, Ken, that's great. That's a great income. Mhm. >> Um 70 thou I'm going to let you know right now what you've shown us aside from the medical part cuz that makes this feel very different. But the numbers alone it I mean I want you to

feel good in this case about being average because this is really just kind of your average debt scenario. You got $130,000 income. You're paying off 70.

Yeah. You're going to have to live on not very much. Maybe you live on 80 to make this happen quickly, right? And the average person is out of debt in about two years, two and a half years. So, that's where you're going to be with this. >> And yeah, are you I got a couple questions, Chris, but are you tracking with Jade?

>> Uh, somewhat. Um, >> what do you not if you live on 80 that frees up 50,000? And I know taxes and all that, but do you see where I'm getting at?

>> No, I understand that. Um, I guess when you talk with two different attorneys, I'm getting, you know, three different opinions. I've got, you know, bankruptcy attorneys saying, "Hey, do bankruptcy." Another bankruptcy telling me, "Don't do bankruptcy because you have no assets." North Carolina, it's very rare for them to garnish your wages, if they can at all.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, the worst you're going to deal with is judgments that may come back to to

haunt you. And then you got another bankruptcy attorney says, "Why wait? Why wait until you make that 130,000?" Cuz in North North Carolina, >> as soon as you hit that 60,000, you can't do chapter 7. So why not do it now? >> Let me tell you my reason. >> Get all the debt behind you. >> My reason is when once you file bankruptcy, you're going to lose you're you lose control over the situation.

Yes. And now a court says, "Here's what the judgment is. Here's what you have to pay a month. Here's what it is. Here's what we'll take. You have no assets." But it do you see what I'm saying? you lose control over the situation. And there's a there's an emotional component that's going to go along with that that says that it's basically you signing on the paper that says, "I lost control.

I'm not fit to handle this by myself.

Here, you guys take it." That's going to

take an emotional toll, not only on you.

Obviously, it's going to decimate your credit. I'm sure your credit's already bad, but that's going to take seven years to fall off your credit. So this is going to haunt you when you can look at the situation and go actually there is some agency and some autonomy that you can take over this and you get to decide. You can say you know what I made a mess and instead of losing your confidence you can build your confidence up by cleaning it up one debt at a time and that does something for you as well.

When you take control of a situation and you clean it up and you make something wrong right that's building something in you that at this time in your life you really really really need. Yeah. Listen, you've been through it. I Amen.

Yes. And amen to everything Jade said, Chris, and and I agree with one of the the bankruptcy lawyers that you shouldn't do this for all the reasons she just gave you. But the thing that I'm concerned about for you, you've had your life turned upside down. And man, I hate that for you.

Uh man, I I have so much compassion for you.

would anybody, Chris, it jaded you or it shaded some of your perceptive perceptions about what you should do.

The fact that you are living with a woman that you refer to as your wife and

you signed a house over to her that you bought. Am I understanding this correctly?

>> Correct. >> Brother, uh, that needs to change.

>> Do you want to be with this woman the rest of your life? Yes or no?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

>> Is there a reason or why from her that

you guys aren't married? Is it her or is it you?

>> Well, religiously we're we're married.

We went through all of that. So, I mean, we're a family, all that. We just didn't >> What do you mean? You got >> What do you mean religiously you're married?

>> So, we we went through the ceremony, but we never did a certificate. So in North Carolina technically we are married as far as you know North Carolina when you're living with somebody for seven years you're legally married >> common law. >> Okay >> common law but as far as >> so why not go down to the courthouse today >> the government and all that. >> Well no hold on finish that sentence I want to hear this reasoning really quick. The IRS the government finish that.

>> Yeah as far as you know doing the marriage certificate IRS and all that.

In fact we are we we we file separately.

We're we're separate. We're not legally married. >> Yeah I get it. My point is you signed your house over to somebody and I don't know where that falls in North Carolina North North Carolina law. I don't have time to figure that out on this little bit of a call, but that needs to get >> a lot of trust. >> Yeah. Yeah. You need to get that that

needs to be fixed. Like a don't file bankruptcy. B get the house back in your name if that's even possible.

>> I got you. >> No, no, dude. This is not something to chuckle about. I don't think you get help. I don't think you get help.

>> The concern is what's going on now. And this the concern is what's going on now is that, you know, going out, you know, you got credit card and and bank

assets, right? Lean on the house.

>> Here's what I think you did. Here's what I think you did. And I I I'm not trying to uh make a bad situation worse, but I

have a sense that you guys capitalized

on the fact that you never got the marriage certificate when you saw that it was about to start pouring rain on your situation. And I think you transferred that house over to her name.

>> I do too. >> And if you keep evading this, it is going to follow you. You've got to deal with this. Stop trying to move stuff over here and move it over here into the bankruptcy. Just deal with it. We've seen people do this, Chris, and you've you've done all these kind of little maneuvers and you think it's funny.

>> Hey, you called us. So, I'm going to tell you something. What you're doing, there's nothing funny. It's scary.

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Not available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Chelsea in Idaho. She says, "My daughter recently graduated college and we will be traveling for the final step of a job interview soon. She's already passed the first three steps in the process. Is it ever okay to request your expenses be

comped by the company you are applying to?" She estimates the airfare, Uber,

hotels, meals, and 3 days of missed wages at her currently job at her current job will run her roughly $1,000.

This would make a huge impact on her monthly budget for a job she doesn't even have yet. Would it be inappropriate for for her to email the company and ask

for reimbursement for at least some of these expenses?

>> Yes, it would be wildly wildly silly. Not even inappropriate.

Just ridiculous. >> You're guaranteeing she doesn't get the job. >> Uh, and Chelsea, I'm honored you sent

the question to us, but the fact that you're asking us this concerns me.

>> U, this is entitlement 101. You are not

entitled to your expenses for applying

to a job. >> If your money is tight, it's not that their fault. >> My goodness gracious. By the way, this is the world we live in where parents are showing up to job interviews uh and

then the kids are complaining, "Mom, it's going to cost me $1,000." She goes, "I'll tell you what. I'll email the the Ramsy Show people and see if that's appropriate." It's not appropriate.

It's called the cost of living.

>> I'm I'm mildly irritated right now.

>> Get Get all the way irritated.

>> Yeah. >> I want to see what happens. >> I don't want to. >> Okay. >> I God bless you for the question, but

no, please don't do that. and explain to her why. I'm not sure you know why

>> it's not done. It's unreasonable. Yeah.

>> This is you trying to win the job and you're competing against other people.

And you don't say, "Hey, this cost me a,000 bucks to travel here to apply." They're going to go, >> "We don't care and we don't want you here because you're too soft." >> Mhm. And you're already causing you're already drama. Let me tell you, Ken, 101. >> There you go. >> When you're This is just from being in entertainment. When I used to be in entertainment, my agent would say, "Just show up and do the job. Don't be drama.

If you're a drama, you could be the best on stage, but if you're a drama, they'll never have you back." Like, just go. It could be the worst room ever and go, "This is such a nice place. Thank you for having me." Like, everything is a graciousness, not hey, you know, the

M&M's were a little bit uh there were too many red ones in the dish. Could you This is there's there's too many red M&M's in my dish. Yeah.

>> And you got to when opportunity knocks, Ken, you have to be ready to answer the door. That's on you. >> I just looked in the drawer over here. I thought maybe there beat some Tums. I got a little indigestion right here on that question.

>> Right there. You know what I'm talking about, people in the lobby. You know what I'm talking about. It's going to be a little something there.

>> She got it. >> Are you for real? >> She got the Tums right there. >> Lady Lady James just She just reached up with a bottle of Tums. So fantastic. By the way, I do not endorse them. Uh, it's just a fun joke. All right. Uh, Jane is up in Washington. Jane, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, so about 10 years ago, we took

the Financial Peace University, sold the SUV, bought a minivan instead,

and worked our way up to step number four.

Life happened, and we're back down at step number two. With the number of emergencies that we have had in the last seven years, I want to be stockpiling money. I want to get that six months of income or of

household needs saved up before we

tackle the debt that we had to take on a couple years ago. >> Okay. Well, let's uh let's go ahead and head that idea off. That's never something that we would recommend and and Jade will walk you through why, but let's first get a picture of where we are. So, at one point you were working the baby steps and you got to baby step four and now all these emergencies.

You're saying the emergencies are responsible for the debt and and if that's true, how much debt do you have now?

>> We only have $9,000 in non-mortgage debt right now.

>> Is that on a credit card?

>> No, it's a um personal line of credit for we had to have the sighting replaced. A storm came through, damaged

both our roof and our sighting.

>> You didn't have insurance? >> You couldn't.

>> Hello. >> Um, I It didn't even occur to me to go through the insurance when we did this four years ago. The house was livable, but the roof was leaking and the sighting was damaged enough on somebody

replace the whole thing. >> Are you sure? or did somebody make the decision and say, "We don't want to submit this claim because we don't want our premium to go up and so we'll just take out debt."

>> So, my husband and I are firsttime homeowners. >> Neither of our parents ever own their homes.

>> And I guess in the discussion years ago

when we were having that, maybe it was part of the we didn't want the premiums to go up. >> That feels right. >> But this was Yeah. So the $9,000 on a

credit card is solely based on you've mentioned several emergencies. Yeah.

Tell us. >> So what emergencies are coming up in your life that that have put you in a position where you believed that you had to do $9,000 worth of credit cards?

>> Um well we had uh one child who was

failure to thrive and for two years I was unable to work taking care of that baby. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Um we have another child who is special needs. So the one who is failure to thrive is doing fine now.

>> But we do have one who um has some special needs and that impacts my ability to work. >> Okay. >> So um we went from two incomes to one.

>> Okay. What's your household income?

>> Credit card.

>> Um it's we're hoping to hit a 100,000

next year. This year my husband was laid

off this year. Okay. Okay. >> Three months out of work. >> Okay. >> Um but he with his new job, he'll be 100,000 next year, but not this year.

>> Okay, great. And are you able to work outside the home?

>> Uh not outside the home now.

>> Okay. Um >> I do I do some work online and bring

home about $6,000 a year.

>> Okay. Uh and so Okay. So, I want to give

Jade I want Jade to answer the core question as to why we would not have you

work on Baby Step three ahead of Baby

Step 2, which is only $9,000. And I know that may seem like a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, Jade, very doable. >> Yeah. So, I just want to make sure it's just the two kids or are there more?

>> Uh, just two home now. >> Okay. Two home. Um

I think life has hit you with a lot and because of that it's kind of inflated uh

the feeling of the debt more so than it is. Um, you mentioned before that, you know, it took seven years, you know, you've been in this for seven years. And so, I just feel like there's been a lot that's happened that much of it has not

much to do with the debt, but it all kind of is conglomerated together in your mind. Cuz when I look at this right now, I go, "Oh, $9,000 of debt. Why

isn't that gone in two months?"

Because if you do the budget, it's >> our household our household needs are

high enough that >> help me help me understand why because what it sounds like is >> help me understand where that is because what I'm hearing is in a generalized situation, rent is usually the highest or mortgage is the highest. And then the second highest thing if there's kids is some form of daycare. And usually that's those are the two that are kind of causing things to be really tight. Um cuz your debt's not the problem. The $9,000 debt is not what's breaking you.

Is there something more in the equation that you're not telling us about? Are there cars? Is your mortgage a crazy amount of your take-home pay?

>> No. So, um food and medicine.

>> Say Oh, medicine. >> We spend >> Yeah, we have um certain medications, you know, insurance covers so much.

>> Um but yeah, between food and

>> we're not in any medical debt. Tell me right quick cuz we're Tell me right quick cuz we're up against the clock and I'm sorry, but tell me what you spend in medication and tell me what you spend on your mortgage.

>> Uh we spend $1,500 a month uh between food and medicine and $1,200 a month on

the mortgage. >> Okay, this this shouldn't be a problem.

I think that you guys need to get on a really really tight budget. I love that you know your numbers, but pay that $9,000 off. It's going to take you two to 3 months to do it and then stack up as much money as you want to to keep the

big bad wolf away from your door.

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Hey everybody, you need insurance. And

uh nobody really likes digging into insurance, right? You know, you need it.

>> George does. >> George kind of does. Outside of outside of George, nobody does. But we know it's hard to uh it's hard to figure this out.

Um and uh that's why we have our Ramsay

trusted insurance pros. And you're never

going to deal with sleaziness salespeople. We've vetted them. They're going to coach you up, make sure you get what you need. And uh you can find them by going to ramseyssolutions.com/coage.

ramiesolutions.com/co

and uh you can connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or you can click on the link in our show notes. All right, Doug is up next in Connecticut. Doug, how can we help today? >> Hey, how we doing today?

>> Good. How are you, sir? >> My excellent, excellent. Thanks for taking my call. Um I got two questions.

One's a The first one's a real simple quick yes or no. I hope. Anyway, um you know, Dave talks about doing 15% uh in retirement after you're completely debtree besides the house. Um that 15% my company does it a 5% match. So is that 15% like 10% that I put in plus the

5% is 15% or is it 15% and whatever the company matches is added bonus basically? >> Yeah. Yeah. Typically we think of it as whatever the company adds is the added bonus.

And that's just the reasoning for that is if for some reason you went to another job and they didn't have that bonus, you would still be in the rhythm of giving 15% of your income. Like that's just a great way to do it. And since you're debtree except the house, like if you wanted to go above 15%, you could. And I think it's a good idea if you do.

>> Totally. Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay. So the main question, thank you very much.

Appreciate that. That answered a lot of questions for me. Um, so situation, FPU graduate 13 years ago. I just started listening to podcast like two months ago and rediscovered Dave and I've listened every day.

So, love you guys. Thank you very much.

Um, so my situation is this. Uh, I have

$23,000 in an emergency fund. That is my

uh that's about five months of uh expenses right there. 280K in retirement, which I recently stopped uh contributing to. Um, I have zero credit card debt. I'm single. I don't have any kids. I make about 140 to 160 a year

takehome. Uh I take home about 6,500 to

9,000 a month depending on the season.

You know, winters are a little little slower. Um I do have a mortgage, but I

uh failed with the car. Uh I got a car

literally a year ago. Um >> financed it. Um however, I got I took a

three-year loan on the car and they were offering 0%. Okay. >> So I figured, oh, I'm going to beat I'm going to beat these guys up because, you know, I got 0%, right? you know, it's payment is $1,000 a month. Um, which is

comfortable. I can get by, but I also get a $600 a month car allowance from work, right, to go towards >> basically whatever I want to put. So, in my head, I'm thinking, yeah, $400 a month out of pocket. No sweat. It's all good. >> But, um, like I said, 0%. I currently owe 26,000 on the car.

>> Um, and with doing the Every Dollar Budget, uh, app, I literally last month found an extra $140 uh, uh, of, you know, extra income.

>> Great. which I already put towards the car. So, I'm down. I want to get rid of this car. I just with a 0% loan, I can't

see how and a lot of people can't see how it makes sense to take my money that I've been saving up 23,000 for the last god knows how many years it took me to get there. Sure. And just throw it at the >> Why did it take you so long with this great income? Did you have You're single? Yes.

>> Uh yeah, I have a girlfriend, but yeah, single. Yeah. >> But why did it take you so long? Or is this new? Is this income new? I mean,

>> no. This is no income's not new. Um I've been with the company about seven years.

Um and I'd say the last couple years I I built my book of business. So, you know, I'm definitely, you know, the income's been growing year after year.

>> Okay. >> Uh yeah, and like I said, I just I just I had I had a car that was paid for uh before I got into this car, but I'm 45 years old. I'm 63 250 lbs. So, a nice

little little car is not doing it anymore. So, I needed something a little bigger. So, I went with the SUV. Right.

So, >> wait a minute. Wait a minute. I've heard a lot of reasons for keeping a car. I think that's I think that's >> you act like you're an NBA player.

You're not that big. >> Yeah, I know.

>> I think you like Listen, I think you like the fact that you got 0% interest.

I think you like the fact that your job is kicking in the $600 a month and you're like, "Hey, what's the big deal?

It's $400 a month. It's for three years.

Do I really Jade have to, you know, Ken, do I really have to pay this thing off?" And the here's where I I'm just going to tell you where I see risk. Where I see the risk is if you got fired tomorrow, you'd be on the hook for a car loan and you'd be on the hook for the whole thousand dollars. And I'm always going to tell you to go the path of least beneficial risk. Like there's times where risk could be beneficial, right?

You there's a certain amount of risk that you take when you take out a home mortgage, right? But for the the benefit outweighs the risk in this case, there's

risk there. Do you really need a is it going to affect you? I think it could.

And I think that you could easily pay this thing off and just be like, you know, give the finger to the whole thing and just say, I don't need a payment at all. I have money by bye, Felicia. And just pay it off. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, and and I I agree. And at the end of the end of the day, like I said, I just did just started the every dollar budget. So, I'm sitting there like, if I could literally find an extra >> three, four, 500.

And I probably would have found more money, but I had two vacations last month. So, yeah. And at the end of the day, I could I could easily probably find an extra five, six, seven, $800. Who knows, you know, at the end of this month, and throw it towards the car.

>> Now, let me tell you what I do. Let me tell you what I would do, Doug.

really appreciate. I love this money.

It's so helpful for me. I'm planning on paying off the car." I did the I did the math and I found out that if you paid me the $600 over the entire length of this car payment, it would amount to x amount of dollars. Is there a way since if I if

I proved to you that I paid it off in full that you'll still give me that money as my stipend? That's what I would do. Does that is that fair, Ken? You're the >> I'd want to do a little research before I took that proposal to them.

Like, you know, >> because if they're going to pay it anyway. >> Yeah. I just want to >> Go ahead. >> Yeah.

The car allowance is more for like repairs, brakes, auto because I I drive my own car. I put about 25 to 30,000 miles on the car a year on the outside sales.

>> They give it Oh, I get it anyway. Yeah.

If I have no car payment, I'm getting that money regardless. >> So, Doug, you called us. I think we're talking all the way around this thing.

>> Doug, we're we're dancing all around this thing. You called to say, "Yeah, what what was your question? Your core question. Should I empty my high yield savings account, which is where my emergency fund is, where I'm getting four 4% uh uh interest on and just

basically dump it maybe minus a,000 to keep my emergency fund, you know, >> it's like you've listened to this show before the car. >> Yes. >> Yes. Doug, how much do you have in your emergency fund?

>> 23,000. >> And how much is to pay off the car in full? >> 26. >> Do it. >> Done. And then you build the emergency fund back up. You got a great income and you're single. Stop the vacations, man.

You're living high on the hog, buddy.

>> You know, you could build you could build this. You're golfing. Yeah. Like, I mean, it listen, that's the plan. You empty it out. You save $1,000. So, you're going to have $1,000 in there.

>> You're back to You You see what I'm saying? You pay the car off.

>> Absolutely. >> And now you're back to baby step three.

You get the three to six months and now you can go back to, you know, your vacation single guy and all that. This should be an easy fix for you. Easy fix.

>> So, I I I agree. And that uh it was one of those things where I've been since I've been listening to you guys, like I said, I rediscovered the the baby steps.

Rediscovered Dave and I had I basically went from baby step one to three, back to two, and and you know, >> you need to discover yourself without a car payment. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're playing financial twister. You know, right hand on red, you know, left foot on green. Uh-huh.

>> No, we don't have a financial twister plan. We have the baby step plan and you just got to follow it. And here's the good news for you, Doug. Like, you have the means to do this immediately.

>> Yeah. >> And now you got yourself a paid for car.

How's that going to feel? >> That's baller. >> Yeah, it's going to feel great.

>> And an unbelievable deal from your company that like I would take that 600 a month and stack that. >> Yes. >> For any car replacement, anything. Oh,

come on. Give him that. Give him that.

Give him My my computer's dead. I want you to go to ramiesolutions.com. I want you to look at the investment calculator and I want you to plug in if you take that $600 and you just drop it in your investments for the next 20 years what that's going to be and your mind is going to be blown. >> Douggee Doug 100%.

>> Yeah. >> All right. I agree. >> There you go. Yeah. Thanks for the call.

Don't over complicate it.

>> You know, I I hate to do this, but they're not my steps. Dave came up with them, so I can refer to them and be kind of obnoxious about it. Yeah, >> I mean there's a reason why there's one and then it leads to two >> and then it goes to three. >> It's called a system.

>> I mean pretty simple stuff, but I love

that. I'm going to give Doug, by the way, the caller of the day award for the

rationale of being 6'3 about 240. Is

that what he said? >> I I'm like, are you trying to get a date or keep your car? What's going on? >> He's like, I got to get a bigger car cuz I can't just fold up like an accordion in this in this sedan. Like the guy is a

tight like he's an NFL tight end. Come on, man. >> On that, I should be riding around on a bicycle. I'm a little guy.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman and we're going to go to Matt who's joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas.

Matt, how can we help today?

>> Yes, sir. So, as of this past Monday, I

had a truck that I've been paying on for about two years. I had an auto loan for

about $30,000 on it. I owe about 27 or I'm sorry, $23,000 still on it and the

motor blew up. Um it's unfortunately

just a bad design from General Motors.

>> Um they've had issues with this vehicle or these motors um for substantial amount of years at this point. >> Um and I am now falling victim to said bad design. Um, it would be about

$15,000 to have a mo uh the motor replaced. Um,

and I'm trying to decide if what's my best option for it um before I try to go trade it in and then it'll be upside down on it. >> You owe 23.

>> Yes, sir. >> Uh, if you get the motor fixed, if we could snap our fingers and it was just fixed today and it was paid off, is this a truck you'd be happy to drive for a while? And could you Uh, oh, the truck's in great condition.

Um, other than that, um, if the motor were to be fixed, um, there is a company that sells a motor that has the system

that caused it to have this issue in the first place, uh, deleted, and that's the option that I went and got quoted from when I talked to the shop.

>> Do you have the 15,000 in cash?

>> I do not.

>> What do you have in cash? Uh, I I don't

have much. Um, my girlfriend just

finished school and I was basically the

primary provider um for about a year and

a half with us. >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How old are you?

>> About 30 years old. >> You're 30. Okay. You compliment to you.

You sounded much younger. >> You did. You did. >> Uh, why are you the primary provider for your girlfriend? You guys aren't married. >> Is she 32?

>> No, she will be younger than me. How old is she?

>> She is 27. >> You really don't know how old she is? You had to think about that. That's kind of funny to me. >> That's a different issue.

>> That's a whole another deal.

>> Different show. Different show, but I'm going to go ahead and tell you, you probably need to be on top of that one.

Um, okay. You should So, you need to

come up with 15 grand. What do you make?

>> I work in public safety. Um, so last

year I made about 70,000. Um, I'm probably on track for about the same this year. >> And and and um if you weren't helping

provide for your girlfriend, it's just you, right? Just rent or do you own a home? I mean, what's what's the situation there?

>> No, it would just be rent and my normal expenses. >> And um I'm sorry for following up on this. Is is she able to support herself now?

>> Yes, she's working full-time again. She just started with the the school year.

>> Jade, >> she works as a um a American Sign Language interpreter and she started interpreting with a school.

>> Yeah. All right, Jade, I don't know where you're at on this, but I there's there's a part of me that goes because he's already upside down in this. The tradein option to me is just foolish.

You're just not going to get anything at all. I'd rather see him working two, three, four jobs. >> Yeah. >> And come up with 15 grand to get that truck fixed. and then and then got to

swallow the pill and pay it off. But if it's a good if it's if the truck's in good shape other than this defect,

>> yeah, >> that again, I'm giving you the answer on what I would do. >> Well, yeah. I mean, if you roll out the numbers, if we if we looked it up and said, "What could you get for this with the bad engine?" I mean, what is it?

What would your be your estimate? >> Do you have any idea?

Yeah, I've been um shopping around with a couple different uh dealerships. Um I

reached out to GM recently because or I'm sorry, GMC because they have the highest rebates and stuff right now because >> what they say >> uh GM would give me 9,000.

>> Okay. >> GMC 9,000.

>> I mean, cuz if you think about it like that and then you add what you would have to kick in to cover the upside down plus to get another vehicle. Do you see what I'm saying? you're still shelling out $15,000. So, that's kind of the numbers on it. I I can't see

why you wouldn't just at this point. I hate it, but yeah, I don't think the numbers are good for you either way. So, it's do you want to keep the car and pay the 15,000 or do you want to get out of the car and get another beater, which I

don't think you do. I think you'd rather drive the more the the nicer car of the two if you can just get the money. Uh,

>> I've tried that. Um, >> you can't go into debt for this. I'll tell you that.

>> Like if you end up if you can't find the money and you end up having to go the other route of, you know,

>> okay, >> if you cuz here's the thing. If you do a personal loan to get from upside down, your numbers are going down. And I can I can advocate for that, right? I can advocate for you getting out of debt and then having to get a beater car and taking out a personal loan to do that, right? What I can't advocate for is you taking out a personal loan to keep a $23,000 car that you were already in debt for. Does that make sense?

>> Mhm. >> So, if you can't come up with the money,

you might be going down in value.

>> But I'm sitting next to a person who who uh with her husband, they had one car for how many years?

>> A decade. So, where there's a will, there's a way. And what I'm saying is is is figure out a way >> to to get where you need to get. And uh I think you can come up with 15 grand pretty quick. A single guy who's able-bodied >> now. You might have to stop taking care of your girlfriend. >> Oh, no. That's done. I'm already assuming cuz she's just your girlfriend.

She's a she's a grown woman.

>> Uh you got problems,

>> you know. >> Yeah. So taking care of her problems aren't isn't your problem. >> You can't you can't. >> You know, in fact, you guys have been, you know, playing house for apparently a long time anyway. So no date nights, no nothing. You got to come up with 15 grand stat.

>> Did we lose you?

>> No, I'm still here. >> Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

>> It is. >> Uh but I I just think the way Jade broke it down is great. And that just again, we're always trying to answer things like what would we do if you were in your shoes? And >> if you can get the money Yeah.

>> without debt, yes, keep the car. It's it's you to your point, it's going to be a great car when you get it fixed. But you can't you can't do debt. I can't let you take out $15,000 of debt to and put

it with a $23,000 debt. I can't let you do that. And you should say that to yourself, too. And go back and listen to this call, right? Don't come off this call and go, "H, I can't get 50,000. I'm just going to do marinate on it." Because when you do, you're going to see, oh man, the last thing I want to do

is go from being $23,000 in debt, you

know, to being 30 $45,000 in debt. That

would be terrible. >> I agree completely. Are you stunned?

>> Yeah. Um I've tried going that route. I just haven't been able to find a a place

to be able to do that. Um, I initially did attempt to contact my bank um to try

for a personal loan because other than

the faulty design, I don't have an issue with the truck. I enjoy the truck. I've been driving the truck for 2 years and it's been great. Um, >> so then what do you think your option is? because you're either

you're either not getting the car fixed or you're listen your other option is take the time however long it takes you to save up the 15,000 and in the meantime you're taking the bus and you're riding your bike and you're getting Ubers and you're calling up Leroy to hit you up for a ride like that's that's your option >> that's what I that's what I think you got to do >> I don't think he likes that option I'm not even sure he heard that I went through that painstakingly I think it went in one ear and Not the other.

>> Listen, it's not fun. That's why >> it's not fun.

[Music]

[Music] All

[Music]

right, folks. You've been paying attention to the news. You know, the Fed just cut the rates for the first time all year, and the 15-year fixed mortgage rates have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Why? Some of you are going, "Ken, I'd like to play the market. I'd like to see the rates come down." Can I just give you a little opinion here? Little off the talking points opinion.

>> Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh here here's what could happen. If mortgage rates continue to

have a slight drop, you're not going to see it, in my opinion, drop back down to the twos. But if you have a slight drop, here's what's going to happen. People are going to get back in the market.

>> And as demand grows, guess what else is going to happen?

House prices go back up. So for some of

you are going, I'd like to see that rate drop. I'm playing the rate game. What you don't understand is as rates drop, housing prices will go back up. It is supply demand. So, I'm not pushing you to buy right now, but even though these rates are elevated from where they were several years ago, I'm telling you, Jade, it's just supply demand and it never fails. >> Reminds me of a song.

>> You're not going to get this one. Had to make it to the top just to see how hard they drop. >> Yep. Nothing. >> No, nothing. Forest Frank. No one.

>> Oh, okay. Never mind.

>> She got it. >> Oh, there's a lady in the audience that's clapping. Forest Frank fan. Um, I'll be honest with you.

I'm a little embarrassed. I'm not even sure who that is. >> That's okay. >> Is that bad, James?

>> No, it's not bad. >> Okay. James knows everything about music. >> They overplay him in the Church Heath group, so I'm kind of over him.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, it's a Christian artist. >> It's a Christian artist. That's why I said it was a deep cut.

>> Boy, oh boy. >> Listen, he's doing his thing. >> Good for him. >> And it's it was a great analogy for your real estate.

>> So, here's the point. Uh, now might be the time to buy. Thank you, Jade.

folks, I never know any music reference.

It's just it's terrible. >> It was a deep cut. >> Yeah, I like that. Uh but here's the point I'm making, now might be the best time from a home price situation to jump in or to sell.

All right, so if that's you on either side of that coin, you need a pro to help you. That's why we have our Ramsey trusted real estate agents that are standing by in local all across the country. You can find one for free at ramseyssolutions.com/agents.

That's plural. Ramseyolutions.com/agents.

All right. Julia is up in Bend, Oregon.

Julia, how can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm honored to speak with you both today. >> Good to speak with you. What's going on?

>> Thanks. Um, I have a two-parter for you.

Um, I want to make sure first I'm like budgeting appropriately and putting the right amount towards debt given my income and then with some upcoming

fertility treatments on the horizon. Um,

whether that should be kind of cash flowed or do like a mini stork mode to stockpile some cash.

>> I like this question. Uh, tell us more.

>> Um, okay. So, let's see. Debt. I just

have 12,000 on the credit card. Um it's me and my husband and that's the main thing we're trying to get through.

>> Um next is a home equity line of credit which based on the amount I'm putting that with our mortgage. >> Great. Okay. >> Um so luckily it's not very much consumer debt. I just feel like um we

should be able to pay off more and just things come up every month it seems like that >> hinder our progress. >> What's you guys' income?

>> Uh we make 144,000 gross. um end up

taking home just under 8,000 a month.

>> Um and what we've been able to do is rent out some rooms in our house and we part of that HELOC was completing an ADU >> so that we can get some additional income. So we have about 3,300 coming in

>> now just as of last month. Um >> in addition to the >> I think that's going to >> Exactly. So I think that's going to be a big help. >> Um but yeah, that's all kind of new.

>> Okay. So what's the fertility treatments costing you? is are you cash flowing it currently or you haven't started yet?

>> Um I we've been cash flowing up to this point of it's just been like a five-year journey unfortunately and we're finally at the time of like probably needing IVF or something. >> Okay. >> Um so >> what I'm looking at is my insurance thankfully covers up to $10,000 of assistance there, but I have to meet my deductible of 3,000. So, I'm assuming we're going to need more than that because IBS can obviously cost way more than $10,000.

>> My question is, do I >> Sorry, >> what's the top end? Like, if you were really like running it through, like what's what's the most you could spend >> or that you would spend? Let me put it like that. >> I mean, I don't even know because it looks like it varies by state, but it looked like in Oregon maybe like 10 to 15. Hopefully not more than 20.

>> Okay. Um, you know, my thought on this is if if anybody else called in and said, "Hey, we're thinking of having a baby and they became pregnant, yeah, we

would put them in stor mode." In your case, becoming pregnant uh is the cost

ahead of time, right? Like everybody else gets pregnant, then the cost comes.

Your cost comes ahead of time. So, I would I would still treat it the same way. I'm not going to tell you to uh wait to pay off debt uh to try to get pregnant, but I will say it must be done in cash. I think that

>> this is you going in on a bet and it you

don't want to go into debt on that >> because that definitely could add deductible. >> Mhm. >> Right. Of like 3,000.

So I guess that was my question is like do I stack up that three grand so we at least know when we're ready to start we have that or just cash flow that as we go which I think we can do. >> If you can cash flow it I would cash flow it. If you can do a little of both I think that's great. If you can cash flow this fertility and keep paying off the 12,000, I think that's winning.

you're finding that, hey, we we literally don't have enough cash to do both of these. If you have to put less towards your snowball, that's fine. If you have to cause it to pause briefly for a couple of months, I think that that's fine, too. Especially since you said like age- wise you're getting getting to the end of this. Um, I would do I I mean, if if I were in your shoes trying to do what you're trying to do, I I would do that. Ken.

>> Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. Uh I I

can't add anything to that at all. And I listen, can I just say on a personal note, I was listening um Stacy and I went through your journey and it's really really tough and u you know, just

hang in there and uh these these days of uncertainty can really eat away at you.

So certainly understand where you're coming from, but please don't make >> and not to say that you're planning to, but don't ever let the emotion drive you to a poor financial decision to put you in a bad spot. You guys walk through all of that. And so I just wanted to add that one little I can't add anything financial advice, but as hard as it is, I just believe there's a plan and I believe you're going to be a mama one day. That's all I want to leave you with.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's tough stuff.

you know, these numbers, you know, just you look at the data out there and I just feel like I'm supposed to say something about this, not just to her, but to our larger audience. >> You know, we see the infertility numbers continue to kind of move up.

And, you know, there's >> there's nothing harder >> for young couples who want to start a family to have that

need, desire unmet. And it it it can be

really tough. >> And so, here's the point that I'm making. it. You can really rationalize Jade >> doing >> going into untold amount of debt >> to go my heart longs to be a mom or a dad >> and we're going to do whatever it takes. And you have a lot of people encourage you and the reality is you just don't know how all that's going to play out.

>> Yeah. >> There's no guarantee on these treatments. >> That's right. >> Except for the bill coming due.

>> Yeah. You want it to end well and but it's sad when it doesn't. >> That's exactly right. So, uh, I what I

here's what I want to encourage people that may be listening, watching in the situation. >> If that's the case, and I say go all in, but go all in and be able to pay cash for it. So, sacrifice in other areas of your life, >> right? >> Don't sacrifice your future, >> right?

>> On the altar of the immediate where you want to do whatever it takes to to become mom and dad. And I just would say, you know, >> sell the house, like change your living, like, okay, we're going to go backwards a little bit in every other area of our life >> so that we can start a family. It's a it's a very tempting thing.

how tough emotionally, I'm sure you've walked that through with other ladies in your life and friends. We're all kind of touched by friends that have gone through it. Just please don't fall into that emotional trap. >> I agree. >> To where you can rationalize debt because it's going to make that existing pain even more painful. So, tough stuff

there, Julia. Thanks for calling and sharing transparently with us. We're rooting for you here. You got this. Hang in there. Better days are ahead.

[Music]

All right, let's go to William in Pennsylvania. William, how can we help you today?

>> Hi. So, I got two questions. Uh, my main question is, uh, investments. Uh, since I'm actually able to put money aside and save up a lot more, I'm wondering what places I can invest my money into for the best results in the long run.

>> What do you >> I'm very young and I'm hoping to be able to have a lot more than just a 401k whenever I it's time to hopefully retire if I'm ever able to. >> How old are you?

>> 22. >> 22. And do you have any debt?

>> Uh, yeah. I have a house and two vehicles. >> Wow. >> Oh, boy. Tell us about those first before we get into the investing.

>> Okay. So, last year I closed on my first

home right before my 21st birthday. I

moved in around September 3rd, I believe, was my move in date. Bought all the furniture outright, had the closing costs figured out, had the down payment figured out, >> and I owned three vehicles completely. I

bought them all in cash. >> Great. >> And once I figured out, I don't know, how much money I was making. It's not a lot, but for this area, it's quite a bit. >> What do you make? >> I was able to do uh right now I make $27

an hour. >> Okay. And uh I appreciate all the time.

>> Southwestern. >> Yeah, I get it. >> Yeah, for southwestern PA, it's it's substantial. >> Okay. 27 bucks an hour is great. But uh you said you have two car loans. What what's how how much are the car loans

>> uh combined or like separate?

>> Separate. You had two cars, two loans.

>> So, uh my first vehicle would be my now

wife's vehicle. Uh we paid 15,000 for it

and I did have to get a loan for it and I pay around 300 a month for it.

>> So, you owe 15 on that one >> just about. >> Okay. And then what do you owe on the second car?

So, I just bought a truck about three weeks ago and it was 23,000. I pay just

under 400 a month for it. Oh.

>> And what do you take home every month from your job? >> Combined we combined we both take home around $6,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, and what do you pay in your mortgage payment?

>> My mortgage is 600.

>> Wow, that's good. Okay. Um,

I'm afraid for you because you're starting a trend of debt.

>> A bad trend. Yeah, >> I understand that. I was told and I just realized that a couple weeks ago.

>> Okay. I'm glad that you And so you agree then you're you're like, "Ah, I can't keep going down this route, right?" >> Oh, no. That's the last purchase I'll be making for a long time. Good.

>> If I ever do again. >> Okay. I'm glad to hear you say that. Um,

so you started out with an investment question. I will get to that. I promise.

Ken will make sure of it. Um, but I did I I did want to address the debt. So, you do, if you've been hanging out with us for a while, you know, can we do say that you do need to be paying off your debts before you invest. And there's a lot of reasons behind that.

>> Of course. Yeah. >> Right. And you want to make sure that when you do invest, you're able to invest an amount that's really going to move the needle for you.

And you have the fullness of your income at your disposal to do that.

and your wife getting together and saying, "How can we quickly uh tackle this uh $38,000 of debt using our $6,000

a month income so that we can regain

700 bucks a month in payments?" Right.

That's the first plan. So, do you have Every Dollar?

>> Uh what do you mean every dollar? >> So, Every Dollar is our budgeting app.

It's It's really more than a budgeting app. It's giving you your whole financial snapshot. Yeah. So, you'll spend I'll give it to you for free and you'll spend, you know, five minutes telling them your telling the the app your situation and it's going to craft a plan specifically for you and it's going to help you find the exact margin that you need to pay off this uh $30,000 of

debt. >> Yeah. >> And as long as you follow the recommendations, I promise you're going to get there because it's going to tell you exactly what Ken and I would tell you here in this room, which is, yeah, list them smallest to largest. Start with the 15,0001 first, but it's going to look deeply into your budget and find money that we can't see through the phone line.

So, that's step one. Now, let's talk about your investing question. Ask it ask it again so I don't miss it.

brand spanking new, but you know, I don't want to just have to rely on that in 50 years from now, if you know, if I'm even able to retire. Why >> I don't want to just have that?

>> What do you mean? >> Why? I I'm trying to understand you. Why does that bother you to have a 401k?

>> I just don't want that to be the only thing I settle with. >> What do you want besides that? That's just a traditional retirement account.

So, you want land. You want what what what do you want?

>> I mean, I would love to buy land.

>> I would absolutely love to, but I just I just I'm new at everything. I just graduated almost 5 years ago. That's >> true. You sound You sound older than you are.

>> You do. I'm You're an old soul. I I think Jade needs to give you I'm going to have her walk you through the baby step plan and strategy so that you get this and she can touch on the investing so that you see the big picture. >> I I do want to I'm I'm actually going to go in the reverse order of what Ken said.

>> She's going to do the reverse of what I said. >> Reverse. Reverse. >> Sounds like my marriage.

>> My bad. >> Great. All right, >> Stacey. Here's what I think we should do.

Oh, you don't.

We'll do what you want to do. >> Sorry, Ken. Listen.

>> No, it's great. Go for it. No, keep going. It's great.

>> Okay. Okay. So, let's talk about the investment part first. So, uh because you're not the only person with that question.

So, if you were saying to me, Jade, uh I want something other than a 401k because I want to be able to retire before 59 and a half, I'm with you. If you said, Jade, I just don't like the idea of all my eggs in one basket. Can I have something besides a 401k? I just love diversity.

I would be right there with you. And I am.

have gone beyond a certain baby step, all of those things open up to you. Um, and I want to talk about that. So, to Ken's point, we talked about first just save up a I'm gonna walk you through the baby steps. First, just get a thousand dollars saved. Do you guys have any money saved anywhere?

>> Oh, I Yeah, we just paid off the wedding. We just got married last weekend, actually. And after all that, I may have not done it the right way, but I did it. Everything is paid off. The only thing we owe is our debt now.

>> But what do you have in my safe? And I have money in the bank. In the bank, I probably have around $4 to $5,000.

That's like my But my cushion is what I call it is my cash I keep in my bedroom.

I have just under 10.

>> Oh, okay. So, you got $15,000 total.

Excellent. That's just what you need.

>> If I don't have money, I get nervous and I freak out. I need money.

>> Okay. Well, I'm about to freak you out for a minute, but it's so that you can feel your best in the end.

If I were in your shoes today, William, I would take 14 of that 15 and I would

pay off your car.

>> And I know I >> Yeah, just like that. And I know I just like swept the knee right there. >> He's breaking out. I The hives are they're hitting his neck. I can see it on the other end. >> Yeah. Um, I would do that because you

what's ultimately going to get you what you want is to free up this income and the debt that's just it's like a it's like a dead weight around your ankle.

Okay? And we got to clear that out. So, if you did that today, right, and you cash flowed the other thousand because I always want you to have $1,000 saved.

You need something.

You would have $300 freed up today immediately. And then you could take that and throw it at keep throwing it at the debt, right? And how quickly could you have that $23,000 uh car paid off, right?

>> I could have that paid off like the middle of next year, maybe three/4ers of the way in next summer, hopefully. >> If you both worked extra, you could have it done by the end of this year. Uh yeah, by the end of the year. Yeah. 12 months. >> Yeah. >> So, and then you'd have that extra $700

and you and your wife could stack up, you know, 3 to six months of expenses.

That's baby step three. And then after that, you're investing 15% of your income into your 401k. And 15% ain't too

shabby. Like if you keep that going.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and then after that, we would say, hey, now let's take, you know, take a moment and focus on putting a little extra aside for your kids. This is another form of investing. It's called a 529. You can throw a little in there, whatever you decide. And then you can say, "Okay, let's start paying off our house because we value real estate, right? You wanted that diversity." So you start paying off your house. Most people who do this, William, pay their house off within 7 to 10 years.

>> Yeah, I was hoping to pay it off in 15.

So >> Okay. Okay. Even great. I love that. If you do it in 15 years, again, love that for you. Now you've got a piece of real estate. Now you've got your 401k. And then if you say, "Hey, I kind of like this land deal. Let's keep saving up money and buy another piece of land. Or let's keep saving up money and I want to open another type of investment account.

I just want to open one that's not tied to retirement to where I can invest the money and get to it whenever I want. You can do that. It's called a brokerage account. There's so many options for you, but you must walk through the steps in order to free up the income in in order to do it. So, that is the caveat.

You need the income that you're now paying in payments.

>> One step at a time, William. We believe in you.

[Music]

Our [Music]

[Music] scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 28:12. The Lord will open to you his good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hand.

You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow.

>> Our quote of the day, this is kind of scary, from Stephen King. Oh, >> not a Stephen King fan, but I'll go ahead and read the quote. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work.

>> Oh, well, that's not Well, the hard work is scary. That's the scary part.

>> I guess I should stipulate I don't know him and don't have any I just don't like scary stuff. >> I don't either, >> James. I'm that guy. When I'm in the movies with my wife and it's the previews and the horror comes up, I literally close my eyes.

>> I do too. >> You do too. >> Listen, I don't want that stuff going in my brain. >> I do too.

And I haven't even I haven't seen Shaw Shank Redemption, but he wrote Shaw Shank, too. So, he does he has a lot of stuff outside the horror genre. >> I didn't I didn't I did not know that. I did not know that.

>> I had him as just a horror guy and that's why I had to crack. I don't no position against him. I don't like his work. Let's put it that way.

>> Yeah, that's good. That's good. >> Actually, now I'm second guessing. Oh, yeah. It's based on his novel. Yep.

>> Wow. Wow. That's a That's a classic.

>> James pulling the feather out of his hat today. Very impressive. Jenna is up in New York. Jenna, how can we help today?

>> How you doing? Um, I'm literally losing sleep over a decision I have to make by tomorrow. Oh, and what I'm struggling with is whether to give a friend $900

who hasn't responded to any of my calls or texts for like three years. And then she suddenly reached out and she's literally begging me for help to pay off a storage unit lean that she says needs to be paid by 4 days from now. and she

said it holds all her worldly possessions. So I contacted the storage

company directly today and in doing so I

learned she actually owes double that amount and I'm kind of uncomfortable with the variety of the details they gave me. But it als I could get the

money, but it would be a financial hardship for me. But I'm what I'm torn with is I'm feeling so guilty because what if this was me >> and because like what if this was me and like the way she worded it and stuff and but at the same time >> it would be a a boundary, you know. I

just >> I love this. I love that you called us because you need somebody that's objective. Jade and I have zero feelings on this deal. Uh, so I'm going to ask you a couple questions. We're just going to rewind. When she first requested the $900, what did your gut, what did your body, what did your brain say?

>> Well, I just felt so sorry for her because she hasn't talked to me for years. >> No, no. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Let me re ask the question to make sure you get what I'm asking. About the $900 when she

If she'd have asked for $9, what would your brain have said? What would your body have said?

>> $9. Yeah. >> Okay. If it was $90, what would your brain and your body have said?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. When she asked for 900, don't tell

me all these other things. What did your brain and body say when you processed $900?

>> Um, it was hard because I'm trying to follow some advice from you and pay off my mortgage. >> Yes. And you just told us that $900

is a hardship that would be brought on yourself to help somebody pay off a

debt. And this somebody's not even in your life. They haven't even returned your calls. They haven't even had the common decency to return a text. This is

a hard no from me.

>> Jenna, >> but she did return. She reached out three weeks ago and then I got the text two days ago. >> That's fine. That's fine. But can I ask you a question?

>> If I said today, Jenna, it is your mission to go out into this world and earn $900, could you do it?

>> I think I could. >> Okay, that's your answer. Cuz your friend can too. And is And the question I also have

is, is this still your friend?

Well, you know, we were close and she went through all these things for, you know, time's sake. I won't go through it that she shared when she called me and

she says she's getting a contract in the middle of the month and that she would pay me back. >> Well, oh, Kaiba, I'm going to put the kibash on this right now because here's the here is what I will say. If you

decide because this is your choice. If you decide to give her the money, you are giving it to her. you cannot lend her this money. You either give it to her out of the goodness of your heart and out of the detriment to your own budget and to your own life or you don't

do it at all. You cannot lend because if you lend >> if you lend it to her, you are not helping her. You're just moving the debt and now you're straining an already strained relationship.

>> That's why I called because I needed to hear you say that cuz I knew that's what you would say. >> Yes, ma'am. Listen, you didn't even tell us, nor do we need to know what are the other details that you found out from the storage facility. But it it screams to me that you're not getting the full story from this >> fake friend. This is not a real friend.

And I'm going to say it. Real friends.

>> I just feel very not generous.

>> Well, Jenna, that's your problem on how you feel because I can tell you,

you're a generous person. The fact that you're even considering helping this fake friend tells me you're generous,

but you've got to make a good decision for you.

>> Not a good decision for her. Do you do you understand what I'm saying? >> Also, also, can I just throw out there

um guilt and generosity don't live in the same house? Like, they don't live in the same >> You don't give out of guilt. You give out of the abundance of joy.

>> I think she's manipulating you. This is a person who did not return your calls, did not return your text. Three weeks ago, when she knew she had a problem on the horizon, she thought, "Hm, I better hit Jenna up, start acting friendly again. I think this smells, this stinks

of manipulation.

This is a fake friend. And I don't give

nine cents to fake friends, much less $900." >> Yeah. Yeah. This is really really think

about that, Jenna. When you give, it should be out of a cheerful heart, not a guilty heart, not under compulsion, not under, oh, what are they going to think of me if I don't give that is the exact opp matter of fact I would say wait until if you are still thinking about it, wait until all those feelings dissipate and then if you can really look at this and go, I am just so grateful to help my friend. I have the money. I feel joy about it.

I feel good about it. Do not give with a guilty spirit. That is not that is not generosity.

>> I got another thought just now. Jenna, how much is she actually owe? Was 1,800, right? >> Yeah, 1,800. And that's just the rent.

So that means they won't take a lean if she pays it by the 23rd of the month, but she told me Tuesday. But she still would owe lean fees and and late fees.

And then the first of the month, she has two units. She has a $900 payment and a

786 payment on the 1 of Octo November.

>> So, Jenna, >> so I don't feel like I'm helping her because if I give her this money, then she's getting the next money. >> Yes, Jenna, I wish you could see our studio audience. They are shaking their head. You just came into the light.

>> Uh you you actually just you took you took us where I was trying to take you.

In other words, the $900 isn't even

going to solve the problem. And that tells me, >> and I hate to say this, Jade, but I'm old enough now.

>> Do it. >> To have lived enough life to know that she's hitting several people up for $900.

This stinks, as my grandmother used to say, to high heavens. There's an old phrase from the South, >> Jenna, this is bad news. And I am hoping to remove any unnecessary guilt. You are

not a person who has done anything wrong. Thus, you should not feel guilt.

But you're such a kind person, Jenna.

>> That I just keep hearing my mother say that's not Christlike. So, I just >> Well, that's another problem. We're now arguing with our mother. >> All right. >> And is probably no longer here.

>> So, listen. >> I guess I did need that non-objective opinion because I knew if I give her the money, it's not a loan. I'll never see it again. >> I'm gonna say a final word. >> You don't even know if she's going to put it on the storage. >> I I got a final word on this, Jenna.

>> You know, >> the reason you feel guilt is because you think that not wanting to pay her is wrong. That's actually right. And I'm going to flip it on you and say that if you give her this $900, that's wrong.

>> Entitlement, baby. >> It's stupid. It's not good management of

your money. Therefore, Jenna, it would be wrong for you to give her $900.

It's my best shot. >> Stand business, Kim. >> Where's my hat? >> Where's your hat at? >> Oh my goodness. Remember folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 89. If You Want Wealth, Stop Being Dumb With Money | May 18, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:31:52 |

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This is an ad for Better Help. You work so hard to be the strong one for everyone else, but you're running on empty. The pressure to show up doesn't just disappear, it takes over your life.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsay Show. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and co-host [music] of Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at8825-55225. [music]

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly [music] what you pay for it. Daniel's with us in Indianapolis. Hey Daniel, what's up?

>> Hey, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve, man. How can we help? >> Uh, so I'm trying to figure out if I should file for bankruptcy. >> Ooh, that sounds scary.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What's going on?

Um, so right now I'm married and we bring home $7,700 a month together, but

um, she's talking about separating and so on my own um, I only make $ 38.50 a

month, so I'm upside down um, quite a

bit at the end of the month.

>> Okay. What um, what's going on with your marriage, hun?

>> Um, not really sure.

Basically, there's just a lot of resentment for um how I was the last year and a half.

Sorry. >> Okay.

How you were? What was what what were you?

>> I'm not very present.

>> Do you guys have kids?

>> Yeah. I have a six-year-old daughter.

>> We have a six-year-old daughter. >> Mhm. Well, typically when there's an overwhelming amount of stress having to do with money, it's the number one cause of marriage fighting and divorce.

And so if you're if you're thinking about bankruptcy, that means you're in a mess. And that's probably at a minimum contributed to your marriage issues, if

not being the major cause of your marriage issues. And then we blame it on or we pointed something like saying, "You're not present." Yeah, I'm not present cuz I'm totally in my own head trying to figure out how I'm going to get out of this dead gum mess. So, um that that could be very possible. So, how much debt have you got, hun?

>> Um not counting the house. Um, I mean

the cars 14,000 and then um got about 13

on an HVAC loan and then uh

19,000 on one credit card, 1300 on

another credit card and 4,000 on another credit card.

>> Okay. >> Were you guys using >> and that's all your debt you and your wife other than your home? Um,

and then Yeah. And then a fourth credit card at 4,000. Sorry.

>> Okay.

>> All right. >> Well, it's about 70 I mean, you're you're close to 75,000 in consumer debt.

Was the credit card spending, I'm just curious because there's multiple with, you know, relatively high numbers on it. Was that to keep things afloat when you guys were paying bills or was that just discretionary spending that you weren't even aware that you were doing?

>> Stupid choices on my part and trying to

fund Christmas without talking. >> Have you been running money by yourself?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right.

>> Has she had does has she did she have any awareness of where you guys were at at this level of debt?

>> Not not this level. No.

>> So that's part of what she's pissed off about, too.

>> Um, kind of. Yeah. >> Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Well, this has come out after the fact. >> We're almost bankrupt. Yeah. I'm pretty mad at you. Yeah. Okay. That that could happen. Um, >> but it came out after the fact. So, everything kind of hit the wall with the marriage. >> Yeah. >> And then other things started coming out in conversations and this being one of them. >> Yeah. >> How long How long have you been married?

>> Uh, 13 years in August.

>> Okay. Are you guys plugged into a church at all? >> No. >> Okay. All right. Um, well, here's the

thing. The math says you're not

bankrupt. If you stay married, you could clean this up fairly quickly, working

together, [clears throat] but that involves staying together and working together and a whole mindset change on

everything having to do with your relationship, you and your wife. But mathematically, if you got 7,700 bucks coming in, >> you could plow right through a debt snowball on this and get on beans and rice rice and beans together, take extra jobs and attack. And everybody having full transparency, knowing what's going on, watching these debts fall away, cutting up the credit cards, never going back again, living on an every dollar budget where both of you see every expenditure and know what's going on.

She's carrying the stress of the family with you while you're carrying the stress of the family together. That's called being a couple. and we work our way through this. That is doable.

>> The only question is are both of you willing to sign up for that.

>> Yeah. >> This time she's not.

>> Okay. Well, I was going to say more importantly, are you guys are you guys willing to sign up for the marriage too?

Right. Like there's >> there to a point I have John Deloney in my head when he talks about >> can you go to marriage counsel? You're at a point that I mean you I mean the way you're making it sound the only way to really save the marriage at this point is it's a complete excavation of

what was and you guys write an entire new story which is going to take a lot of work working through a lot with a professional having a therapist or a counselor involved. Um and and as you do all of that, right, you are looking at the things impacting your marriage and money being one of those. And so as you're going through and rebuilding marriage, you're doing the debt snowball, right? And so, um, that that [clears throat] that feels like >> I feel like I'm missing something here. Has she moved out already?

>> She is in two weeks. >> You you broke up. Say it again. Has she moved out already? >> No, she's planning to move out in two weeks. >> Okay. To where?

>> Uh, an apartment.

>> Has she signed the papers?

>> Yes.

>> Did you do Was there something major, Daniel, just versus you not being present?

Um, no.

>> All right. So, what I would love to have

happen in your old story is for the both of you to sit down and say, "Before we do that, let's go see a marriage counselor and see if we can begin to put this thing back together." And, as Rachel said, write a new story. Now,

that that's the best outcome of this conversation. Um, and so if I were you,

when I hang up, I would find a marriage counselor, call Better Help, call somebody and get on the phone and start asking them how to talk to your wife about coming as one last ditch effort to

sit down with a marriage counselor.

Okay? Because I think this is salvageable. I'm not hearing any reason here to end a marriage. Um, but uh but

anyway, I I think you guys get in that if you can't or won't you you can't control what other people do. So, she just says, "No, forget it. I'm done." >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm out. And And I That's after you

talk to a counselor who tells you how to talk to your wife, be present about talking about possibly saving your marriage. Not you just saying, "She's not going to do it. Dave, that's not an acceptable answer. You've got to put some effort into this." Okay. Now, if after all of that and the whole thing still goes up in flames, then you've got this debt. you're still not bankrupt.

You're still screwed, but you're not bankrupt. Okay?

>> Because uh basically, you're probably going to end up with half of the debt. She's probably going to end up with half of the debt in most states >> and you're going to end up with child support and you you you know, you've got a $4,000 month income. She's got a $4,000 month income to work with towards the debt. And um the house is going to be sold and that's going to pay off a lot of the debt including the HVAC and the car may be sold, but probably you're just going to pay it off and then you're going to plow through some credit card debt together and you're going to figure out who's doing what.

You're going to end up doing it together whether you want to or not >> because both of them got both your names on them. Even if the judge says that one's yours, that one's yours. Until it's paid off, it's not done.

but this can work. It's a lot harder

doing it as two separate entities, though. Everything in life is a lot harder. Raising this kid is a lot harder. Everything is harder as two separate entities. So, save your marriage.

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[music]

Michaela is in San Diego. Hi, Michaela.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave and Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. [music] >> Sure.

What's up? >> I'm I'm calling in with kind of a two-part question about business cash flow concerns. My husband had worked at this business for over 20 years, and we recently bought it. We took out two personal um $50,000 loans to pay the previous owner and to start the business.

But now, after 2 months, we're feeling a lot of stress in our new marriage. feel like we're only paying debts, not making any progress, and can't breathe anymore. We need guidance on how to manage the cash flow so we can try and get ahead.

a month, but the income varies between $40,000 and 70,000 depending on the month. My second question is, >> you paid $100,000 for a business that breaks even.

>> That's he told us it didn't. He said that it had a significant cash flow, but we are finding that we're only breaking even. He said it's a slow time period right now.

>> Did you look at previous books of the business like the last 12 months before you bought it to see seasonality if that is true?

>> He didn't really offer that and we kind of went on good faith because my husband had worked for him for so long. Um, but I'm realizing now that maybe we should have. >> No, not maybe. Absolutely.

>> Yeah. Yeah, you you stepped up into a bear trap. Um >> yeah, [sighs] what kind of business?

>> Um it's an appliance repair um business.

>> What is the 50 to 60,000 in re in overhead on appliance repair?

>> Mostly it's payroll. There's um six technicians, but we're also paying for health insurance, um rent, um software

insurance, um let's see what else. auto insurance um website

leases on the vehicles which I don't agree with but >> so the six um uh um

technicians are not working all the time. >> Well, there's three office staff and three technicians. We did used to have four technicians and one quit during this time frame. So, we're trying to hire a new one. Um >> why would you want more expense?

We're hoping that he can also bring in more income.

>> And why would you have that hope if you're not already overwhelmed with business? >> Yeah. Um >> are you guys turning down a lot of business? >> No. Right. Right now they're they're pretty busy. I think um my husband's schedule he's booked out to next week.

So not turning down a lot of business, but um we're at least a day or two busy

all the time. Yeah. Okay. So, here's the thing. What

you you have to ask what must be true for this to work. And so, um revenues

have to go up and expenses have to go down for this to work.

>> That's a basic business premise, right?

We all know that. And so, that's what you've got to start asking yourself. What I can I do to get revenues up and get expenses down? And none of these things are going to be easy. They're all going to be painful.

like your husband's going to be working like all the time. Welcome to being

self-employed.

>> And the technicians, you're going to get them to where they're so busy they can't breathe. And then you're going to bump your rates and start charging more. And then you're going to lay off one of the three office staff or two, and you're going to be down there doing the books.

Um, and then you're going to look at getting rid of these leased trucks and get some old trucks that show up cuz nobody gives a crap what you're driving if you fix their dishwasher.

>> Yeah. The hard part is that I'm active duty military so I can't move there yet.

>> Okay. All right.

>> And I'm debating if I should pause my TSP savings um to put that money towards the debt. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. You guys got to clear this debt and you got to you got to stop everything and get where you can breathe. But the point is, the more you move into increased revenue and decreased expenses and more margin in your personal budgets, the the the more

there's a light at the end of the tunnel. That's not a train. And then you can, you know, the problem with where you are is if you feel like you're stuck there forever, that's an untenable place that creates unbelievable anxiety. But when you're in a hard time, but you can see your way out doing some hard things, well, the brain will help you do that. That's where where is your husband right now living? You're if you're in San Diego, where is he? >> He lives up in the Fresno area.

>> Okay. And you guys are newly married. How long have you been married?

>> One year. >> Okay. >> Were you deployed or something?

>> No, we just met um living in two different locations. >> When are you guys planning on being in one location together?

>> Next next year. I'm I retire next year.

>> Okay. I'm just wondering does he have this level of stress as well because you're the one calling us and you're not even in the same city in the with the business.

>> His [clears throat] stress is easily two to three times what mine are.

>> And so you're just hearing it. You guys are talking through and you're like I'm just going to call and see what they say. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Okay. >> And you don't owe this former owner any money. >> We owe him almost 400,000.

>> HOLY MOLY.

YOU PAID $500,000

for a business that doesn't make a profit.

>> That's what >> fixing dishwashers.

>> OH MY GOSH, KIDDO.

>> YEAH. >> YEAH. You got screwed.

Wow.

Unbelievable. >> Okay. So, what is she doing?

>> Listen. Hey, here. I can help you with this [laughter] real quick. Call the former owner and tell him to come get it. Come pick up the keys, buddy. I'm

done. >> You just walk away >> and walk away >> with a h 100red,000 and just pay it off.

>> Pay the 100,000 off and call that stupid tax. >> Call him and tell him to come get the thing. >> Screw this.

>> You got hammered.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

For a business to be worth 200 $500,000,

you need to be making a profit of $150

to $200,000 a year.

And you ain't going to see that in your lifetime out of this thing.

>> And I think that's what he told us that it was worth. >> Yeah. Well, he's a liar.

>> Okay.

[clears throat] >> And and and I I'll be mean. Can I be mean for a minute? You first.

>> Y'all were dumb on how you did this.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, you believed this guy just cuz your husband used to work there and he got a paycheck instead of actually checking out the freaking numbers. You signed up for a half a million dollar trip around the sun and didn't look at a stinking number. Just trust some good old boy.

>> Yep. >> That's like walking in front of somebody sque Oh my gosh. Bless your heart. Yeah.

You got a mess. This is not going to end well. I'm calling that owner and saying, "I can't do this. You sold me a pig and a poke. I'm done with you. And uh there's no possible way this thing is worth anywhere close to what you sold it to me for. Uh you screwed me. And here

I'm leaving. You can come pick up the pieces and tell your husband to move to

San Diego. Move to San Diego with his new beautiful wife and get a job.

>> And then y'all scratch through your stupid $100,000 worth of debt. And when you look back on that, you'll say, "That's the dumbest thing we ever did. Cost me a hundred grand." By the way, I've done dumber things that cost me more than 100 grand.

But I But but but man, I can look at myself in the mirror and go, "You are stupid, Dave, when you did that."

So yeah, you this is not recoverable.

I'm I'm turning this over to this guy.

I'm serious. You're not going to work your way through $500,000 in debt. And

the seasonality part is of appliances

that I'm like, >> but dishwashers don't break in the summer more than the winter >> or less than is what he's telling them.

>> I know that's just absolute bogus.

>> Uh if it was heating and air, maybe we'll talk about it. >> There is there is some there's some come and go on heating and air. But that you said appliance repair. Appliances aren't on a schedule for repair. Refrigerators don't go, "Oh, I'm going to wait till after Christmas to break." They don't do that. So that this guy's full of it and

he sold it to you and he's sitting over there grinning going, "Look at these fools sending me checks. No more checks for Bubba. Nope. I'm done." >> Okay. So, how does that really quickly?

>> I'm serious. You're probably going to get yourself sued. >> I was going to say legally. What do you How do you do that? >> But the other thing I would do is when he sues me, then I would counter sue him for fraud >> and say you lied. This is verbally. This is what was said. >> When you lie to do a business transaction, that's called fraud. >> Yeah. >> And this guy was fraudulent. He lied about how much money this business makes. I promise you he lied. Way

seriously lied. And the dumb part was you believed him. So you get to you get to you're probably going to get sued.

You're probably going to have a counter suit and you definitely got to pay the hundred grand that you borrowed from real people. Oh jeez.

>> Sorry, Michaela. >> Yeah, this is awful. I'm so sorry. I'm a gasast on your behalf.

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[music] Okay, now that I can breathe again, um

let's give a little bit of recap [music] to um talk about how to value and how to

buy how to purchase a small business.

Okay, a small business is a lot of work.

I've run one most of my life and Ramsay today is a $300 million business. It's not that small anymore, but it's at its heart a small business. and I coach about our our Entree Leadership team and I coach about 10,000 small businesses.

We'll be with 3,000 people next week at Disney at the Entree Leadership Summit event teaching leadership and business acumen to small business people. So, this is something that we do. It's not just a random guy who gets people out of debt that this poor lady Michaela called and had gotten herself into a mess. So, it's good for us to uh part of what we

want to get out of this is to help the individual caller that calls in, but we also want you guys to get a lesson and

learn and inspiration from and so forth

anytime we take a call on here. And so, that's how we decide who we're going to talk to on the air on this show. So,

backing up then, number one, small

business is all-encompassing.

It is the hardest when you own your own business. It's the hardest boss you'll ever work for. Your boss will work you

to death when you're your own boss.

It's hard.

It is not to be taken on by someone who got married 20 minutes ago.

Bad idea.

Okay. It's a strain on you physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and it's a strain on your family. >> The stress of it all. >> Yeah. Yeah. When I started this business, I worked 16 hours a day. Uh,

five, six, seven days a week. Um, you

talk to my wife Sharon when Rachel was a little bitty kid and this business was growing up that [snorts] she felt like a single mom a lot of times and she for all practical purposes was that's what a small business is. You don't do that on a weak marriage. You don't do that on a new marriage. And you don't do that when both spouses are not fully engaged. You don't do that when you live in separate cities. So, rule number one, violated

two rules right there. Okay, before we get started, rule because it's hard, y'all. >> It's really, really, really hard.

>> It's a season of grind when you sign up for it. >> When you when you buy a business or you start a business, it's hustle and grind.

>> Mhm. >> Hardcore. And that's okay. But know what you're signing up for. And it's not going to make everything better. It's going to make everything worse for a while. And uh but the the idea is we're

going to make more money and have control of our destiny and that makes thing better over time. But that's not where it starts.

Then the second thing is if you're going to buy a business, you investigate and expose every single number in the business, all the accounting and particularly the tax returns

because they may lie on their accounting and they may lie to you. Most of the time the tax returns are going to be some semblance of accurate. And if they

say to you and you're looking at a business, "Oh, don't pay attention to the tax returns. We actually make more money than that." What they're saying is is we are lying to the federal government on our tax returns, committing fraud, but we're trustworthy.

That's what they're saying to you. So run away when someone says something like that. Okay. The tax returns are the number. I look at least at least two years, but probably five years. Yeah. I want to see the trend line of the profits over the last five years. And what are the profits they actually paid taxes on?

Now, if you take $100,000 and put it into a good mutual fund, you can make 10 or 12% pretty much any year.

So, if you were going to take $100,000 and buy a high-risk small business where

I'm going to have to pour myself out and hustle and grind, you need to make a minimum of a 20% rate of return on your

business.

Okay? And you need to make a probably a 25% rate of return. So, here's how that translates in valuing a small business.

You look at the net profit after everyone is paid, including the guy that works there that hasn't paid himself.

If you weren't working there and you had to hire a manager, you take the manager salary out and you

have the net profit of the real business

if you're an absentee investor to determine what kind of actual revenue this business is creating. Because if he's just paying himself and that's all, you're not buying a business. You're just buying a job. You don't need to buy a job. Just go get a job.

But don't buy a job. So if it pays $100,000 and that's all it pays and and you can make $100,000 doing something else, well then don't pay to buy a business that only pays you what you would have made putting up nothing to work for somebody else. So don't buy a job. Instead, after the after everybody

is paid, if I'm living over here in Tennessee and I'm buying this and the thing will operate over there completely, what is the net profit then?

And if you want a 25% rate of return, you multiply that number times four and that's the value of the business. If you want a 20% rate of return, then you multiply by five and that's the number.

So, if it made after everyone was paid

$100,000, it's worth four or $500,000.

If it made $10,000, it's worth 30 or $40,000,

which means don't buy it >> and it's worth 10,000. That's right.

What they what they should have paid exactly for that business >> instead of a half a million dollars. If you'd actually looked at this Goober's tax returns, you would have seen that after he got paid, the thing had no net

profit, which is what they have discovered now that they're running it instead of just working there. The skill

of being a technician inside of an organization is different than the skill of owning and operating a business. You can be a very smart

graphic artist, a very smart software

engineer, a very smart accountant. You

can be a very smart anything and not know how to run a business. They're different skill sets and you have to consider that. So, if you're a heat and air guy and you've been working there 20 years and the heat and air guy wants to sell you the heat and air company, you're not qualified to run it yet.

You've got some skills. You got some metaphorically tools you need to put in your belt to get ready to run that. Cuz you can fix an air conditioner doesn't mean you can run a heat and air company.

Because you can sell real estate doesn't mean you can run a real estate company. It means you can sell it. That's different. So, you've got to consider those things when you're valuing out and deciding, is this an appropriate purchase for me? And then lastly, if you

have to borrow money to start all of this, you've increased your risk a 100 times. Don't do it.

80% of the small businesses fail in the first five years according to Small Business Administration, which is really not trustworthy organization, but it's the only number we've got. Eight out of 10 don't make it. And if you're in the restaurant business, it's 95 out of a 100red don't make it. So just because you can cook doesn't mean anybody's going to buy your barbecue.

It just means your neighbors liked it when you gave it away. That's all that means. You're not qualified yet to operate a barbecue joint and go $250,000 in an SBA loan and now we've got Dave's Barbecue.

Not so famous Dave's. Right.

>> I think there is a Dave. There was a Dave's barbecue. >> Yeah, there just occurred to me as I said that. Yeah. But the uh you know, see what I'm saying? So that's the thing. You've got to dig into this. If if and you know why 80% of those companies fail, those little businesses fail?

Cash flow problems. Cash flow problems are created by two things in small business.

Not paying your taxes because you're taking all your money home because you didn't have enough money coming in to eat and now you starving to death. And so you don't pay your taxes. You don't pay your quarterlys. or worse than that, you hold you don't turn in the withholding and if

you don't pay your one your 142s, they're going to come get you forever.

That's not bankruptible. You're going to get it. That that's the withholding numbers, okay? On on your employees. You have to turn that money in. You can't keep that money. Wow. And guess what?

The other thing causes cash flow problems is the debt when you went and borrowed money to start and run this business.

And so one of my friends is sitting out here and he paid off a half million dollars on his business and that means he's the exception of the rule. He made it out alive.

Most people don't make it out alive when they do that. They don't make it. Don't sign up for that trip. It's not worth taking.

>> [music]

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[music] Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And right now things are crazy out there. Interest rates are down. House prices are starting to change again.

Things are moving. If you if you're thinking about buying a home or selling a home in the market like this, you really need somebody knows what they're doing in your corner, not somebody that got their license 3 weeks ago and you go to church with them. Sorry, Charlie at the church, but that's uh unless you've been doing a bunch of real estate deals, we don't want you to be we don't want people to list their house with you. We want people to list the largest asset they have with somebody that really has a proven track record.

So, that's how you become Ramsey trusted.

To find a local Ramsey trusted real estate agent pro for free, go to ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description.

Nia is with us in Boston. Hi Nia, how are you? Or na na.

>> Yes, it's Nia. >> It is Nia. I got it right the first time. Okay. How can I help today?

>> Yes. So, I am currently in baby step

number two. I have $112,000

of debt total. Um, and I am just trying

I'm struggling with being in a long-distance relationship and essentially staying intense while also still investing and prioritizing that as well. >> How far is the relationship? How far how far apart are you guys?

>> Um, four hours. >> Okay. How long have y'all been together?

>> So, it's a year and a half.

How many times have you physically seen each other?

>> Um, once or twice a month.

>> Oh, okay. Good. >> All right. Good. Cuz I asked that question one time and the lady said never. [laughter] >> And I wanted to make sure what I was dealing with. So, okay.

>> All right. >> Well, that's what I'm struggling because I recently just picked up another part-time job. I do have >> So, what do you what is your career and what do you make?

>> So, I'm a property manager and I currently make 65,000 a year.

>> What about him?

That's a great question. >> What does he make?

>> Um, that's kind of a struggle in the relationship, but um yeah, >> it's a struggle because he doesn't he's he's not working or he won't tell you.

>> Both.

>> He won't tell you because he's not working and he's ashamed of it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Has he not worked for a while?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So why >> why is he not coming to see you then?

>> Yeah, he ain't got nothing to do.

>> He does. There's a tradeoff. I mean, it's just like that's the struggle and know ideally it would be to live in the same state, but I >> No, no, no, no, no. Stop. You did not answer the question. You completely deflected. This guy's got nothing to do.

Why are you driving to him?

>> Um because he says it's more comfortable for me to go there. >> Yeah, I bet it is. He does a lot of things that are comfortable for him.

It's more comfortable not to work, too.

[laughter] >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. >> Is it bad? Do you see it's bad?

>> Do you not hear yourself?

>> Yeah. >> Oh, man. But you love him, you know.

>> Oh, well. >> Shoot. Uhoh. How old are you?

>> I'm 25. >> Okay. >> You've been together a year and a half and you're just way more way more mature than he is. and he's going to be a husband that's going to everything about him right now will be magnified in marriage. So

>> yeah, >> all the good and all the bad.

>> Mostly the bad. >> And not that people can't change and grow, but for the most part, he doesn't sound very proactive right now to come to you or to get a job. Oh, no.

>> Okay. So, not talking about the debt snowball, which is actually how you framed the question. Then we got all up in your personal business. I know. Sorry. But personal business is there because it's personal finance. So, um,

you're going to [clears throat] be my, uh, 25year-old little niece for a minute

and I'm going to be old, uncle, ugly uncle Dave. Okay? And I'm going to love you. I'm going to love you like you're in my family. All right? So, if you had

a daughter, you need to think about what she would tell you or what you would tell her about this guy. The same stuff Rachel's telling you. Now having said

that if you want to pursue this guy that's fine. Uh but he needs to show some initiative in two areas to be worthy of you my princess.

In order for him to be worthy of you he needs to be a working man.

Period. >> Okay? >> And he needs to pursue you. Not you have to pursue him. He needs to get his little butt in the car and drive over and see my princess the niece

because you're worth that.

You're not He's not worth you chasing him.

You're worth him chasing you.

>> And if he can't do that, he's disqualifying himself.

>> Does that sound like good old uncle advice?

>> It does. Yeah. It's just I am like annoyingly obsessed with you guys. It's all I listen to and I'm just so sick and tired of being sick and tired.

>> Well, you're going to get out of debt cuz you're not going to be driving over there as much >> cuz he's going to be driving to you and you solved your problem. So now you can keep working your dead snowball.

>> But as long as you're distracted with this character um and you're the only one putting out all the effort and the money while he sits on his comfort self.

Um, so if someone's wanting to date one

of my daughters, comfort does not need to be a word that comes out of his mouth.

Discomfort while he serves and takes care of the princess that I raised sitting next to me. The good kind of princess, not a bad princess. And so when Winston when Winston Cruz came into

my house to talk to me about dating my

daughter, he he there are requirements

and being a productive young man is one of them.

>> Well, and can I be super probably a little prideful? I don't even think you had to say that to Winston cuz he was doing >> I've never had to. That makes [laughter] him that makes it okay for him to be there >> in college. You know what?

>> But I guarantee you I'm gauging that.

>> Yes. Yeah. And if you don't qualify, you don't get invited back. And that's the

mean old daddy. Dad, the boys in the youth group are scared of you. Good.

Keeps away wusses and jerks. Two things I don't want dating my daughter. Right.

>> Yeah. So, and productive is a good thing for a young man, a young woman.

>> For Yes. For anyone's soul in society.

And but again, not to be like overgeneralization with gender, but there there is something about a guy of going and doing something productive with his life. >> Highly unattractive to not do that.

>> So it's >> to the father of the daughter.

>> Well, that and then on top of that, I mean, seriously, but it'd be one thing if he's like struggling in the job market, you know what I mean? Like we hear lots of stories and situations.

Yeah. >> But the final but the but the straw of like he doesn't want to drive to you because it's it's uncomfortable.

>> A lot of job markets. I've never struggled.

Yeah. You run down Home Depot, buy you a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. You can always find something to do. There's something to do. There's always something you can do for money. I mean, that's just that's >> I know. I'm just trying to give a little grace to [laughter] this situation. >> Yeah. He's trying to find himself. Yeah, that's good. But >> but my my my princess niece and what I

want you to do is I want you to stay in your town and invite him to come see you. And if he does, he might be worthy of pursuing. if he refuses to come see you on his dime and he refuses to become

gainfully employed, please move on.

However, while we're doing all of that, of course, we've solved the other problem. You now can work and work on your debt snowball and you're a productive person. You're a property manager, a professional young woman that makes $60,000 a year and more and you're

awesome. >> Yeah. >> Act like it. >> Yeah. And if you can work extra, you know, two $3,000 a month on top of anything you can squeeze out and anything that you can um sell in that you got a $50,000 car in that 112.

>> Sell the 12. Yeah.

>> Oh, that's what we were driving four hours away. Oh, good. Okay. Got rid of that, too. Yeah. Can't come see you. Got rid of the car. There we go. >> Oh, there's an excuse. [laughter] Like, sorry, I sold my car. Can't do it.

Oh, >> and my $7,000 card probably isn't four hour worthy of a road trip. So, hopefully do that. >> I'm thinking that Hooptie is not going to make the trip. >> So, um yeah, you got to be careful when you call this show, boys and girls, because we love you and we're going to treat you just like you were a member of our family or some of our best friends kids or something like that.

We're going to put our arm around you and tell you the truth.

Um, but we love you na na and we're glad you're glad you called in and I think you've got an incredible future, but I want you to put more value on yourself.

>> This is the Ramsay Show.

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>> $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us, America. Rochelle is with us in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Rochelle. How are you?

I'm doing okay, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm trying to get some advice on uh

whether we should sell our house uh in order to pay off our debt. Uh, my husband wants to sell the house and move back to his hometown um to clear all our

debts and start over. And I'm just concerned that that's um not not the right move. And I'm also just emotionally overwhelmed. So, I figured I'd call for some advice.

>> That's nice. Thank you. >> Do you feel like the right you're concerned about moving back to the home hometown more or selling the house or both?

>> Um, I'm so sorry. I was sitting in my

car.

>> You okay? >> Um, yes. My husband pushed a button on

my car that made it beep.

>> Oh, it's okay. >> You're fine. You're fine. No, you're good. No worries. >> I'm walking down the neighborhood now.

Um, so my concerns I I'm just a little

emotionally overwhelmed because I do like our house and I like our neighborhood. >> Um, >> and you don't want to move to his town.

>> Um, well, there's pros and cons to both.

I'm just in a fragile state emotionally and I >> Yeah. also feel like um >> I feel like if we just move without changing the behaviors that got us here in the first place, we're just going to have the same problem.

>> 100%. 100%. That's true.

>> But if you if you change your behaviors with a fresh start, if if you change your behaviors with a fresh start, it could be a good move. So, what does he do for a living?

>> Um, so he is a security contractor. He's a professional bodyguard for a celebrity country music star right now.

>> Um, and his salary 7,100 a month whether

he's on tour or whether he's >> he will keep doing that regardless of where you live, whether you live in his old town or the current town.

>> Yes. Um, do that from anywhere.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. But on his off time that he is home, he was an HVAC um person with a

union job which provided us benefits and an additional 4K per month. He got laid off because of his unpredictable bodyguard job. So now we're only living on the bodyguard salary and he's doing

extra side gigs and picking up other security contracting and just kind of making it work, but we're just paycheck to paycheck. >> So how much debt do you has have not counting your home?

Um, so we have um 10,000 on his truck

and 16,000 on our van. Um, and about

14,000 in credit cards and about 3,000

in medical bills.

>> Mhm. >> Um, and we owe 8,000 to the IRS because

uh we didn't take out taxes properly last year for self-employment with security contracting. And so we've got to get a payment plan set up with the IRS for that. >> Okay. Have you been doing your quarterly estimates this year?

>> No. Um we have not because his security

work this year is um he gets the taxes

taken out from the salary. >> Oh, they changed it. They made him a W2.

Okay. >> Yeah. He got this salary job. So now now when he does >> But any of the side hustle stuff he does, you've got to set money aside and do your quarters. >> Yes. Exactly. Okay. All right. Uh, how

long you guys been married?

>> Um, I think like 19 years.

>> And how old are your kids?

>> Um, we have 15year-old twins and um I

have a 5-year-old, a fouryear-old, and a 22-month old baby and a 19year-old.

>> Yeah, that's overwhelming in general.

That's a lot. >> That would put me in a fragile state. >> Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot.

>> Okay, so I'm I'm going to tell you this.

Unless both of you hate the house,

I would not sell the house.

I would sell his truck.

>> Okay. >> He never drives it.

>> Well, he just recently bought it so that he had something to get himself down to Kentucky cuz he his his country music star lives in Kentucky. He has to drive down there regularly, leaving me at home with the kids. >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> So, he bought Yeah. So, he does need a vehicle and And he can use the truck for side hustles as well. Okay.

>> Yes. >> All right. Then that won't work. But um so but but basically you've got what you're telling me is is the the debt you've got you can clean up >> if you guys lean into this and live on beans and rice, rice and beans for a period of time. Um but he's >> I'm not sure if we can. I don't know.

That's why >> I don't know why you can't.

>> Why can't you? because he said he's working his life away and he's so miserable and he just he's he's so tired. He's so fired up.

>> That's not changing. That's not changing when you move.

>> Well, he said that it'll be a lower cost of living and our debts would be wiped out. >> Yeah, but that doesn't change. He's still on the road all the time.

>> I'm working so he's talking about his side hustles are killing him.

Um, yeah. Oh, >> he's here with me now.

>> I think he's right there. >> He said that.

>> I don't care.

>> And whatever money he does make could go towards something instead of just scraping by. So, I >> Well, something could be like owning a home that your wife wants to live in in the neighborhood she wants to live in cuz she's got a freaking house full of kids while you're off on the road with a country music star.

Yeah. I I think that's part of the I think that's part of the gig you signed up for him, son.

>> So, yeah. >> Well, I'm not saying I don't ever want to move. I'm just saying I would rather us try to dig our heels in and get our our behaviors fixed first before we make a rash decision. >> No, you did say that. You're changing your story. You said, "I love this house. I love my neighborhood. I don't want to move." That's what you said.

>> I do, but I mean, I know I could be happy anywhere. You know, >> that's that's different. You did say, "I don't want to move.

>> I like my house." >> Not right this second. Yeah.

>> And it's not because you want to change your habits. You do need to change your habits. Both of you need to do that for sure. And you need to get on a written budget. So, what I would tell you guys to do is get on an every dollar budget.

Don't go out to eat. Don't go on vacation. Pour every dollar on these debts. Cut up every credit card. You take any side income you can do to create from home. He takes any side gigs he can take in addition to his uh bodyguard gig. And you guys tear into

this debt full throttle for six months,

12 months, next March, revisit this. And

if everybody's still miserable and we're all dying and the only way to fix this is sell the house, well then sell the house. But I don't think that's the problem. >> Cuz what's wild is if you got two extra thousand a month just to put at this, >> you'll be done >> in two years. Do you know what I mean?

which is long, but also not really.

>> Not only 2,000 extra, you already make 7,700 plus side gigs. >> Plus the side gig. >> Yeah. So, I mean, you get some extra, he gets some extra. You guys cut, but you're spending You guys got to quit spending money like you're in Congress, too.

>> How much How much is your mortgage payment?

>> It's 2400.

>> Okay, that's not killing you. Um, so you

guys do listen, do whatever you want to do, but that's what I would do.

>> Yeah. And I would look at the van and the truck and and and we've gotten more calls than not that actually their vehicles they actually have they're they're upside down or they're not upside down on it. And so if you guys can can do anything to even move those

>> because to me I'm like that's $26,000 of this. So >> you're not dude you're not dying from working extra to take care of your family and clean up the mess you made for one or two years. It's not going to kill you.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> There's a thing in psychology called cognitive [music] dissonance, which means that you are stressed

and there's a frustration level building up because things are inconsistent

in your emotions and in your brain.

frustration, anger, um all these types

of uh high energy emotions start to appear. >> Fear, >> fear, [clears throat] fear, >> stress. >> And when you have that around money and

you see a quick way out, like selling

your house to pay off all your debt, >> it re it tells you, I can make all of this uh psychological pain, cognitive

dissonance, go away if I just sold the house. So we're always looking for human nature is to look for the quickest way away from the pain. It is not always the best

methodology for your long-term health.

The quickest way away from the pain after surgery is not doing physical therapy because physical therapy is painful. But if you don't do physical therapy therapy after a knee or an elbow or a shoulder, it won't work.

it it'll freeze up. You have a problem.

So you have to lean into the pain to get the best long timeterm result. And that's usually true with money.

So what's painful in the you pick the uh

shortterm pain and the long-term gain in

any money equation? It's almost always the right one versus the short-term gain and the long-term pain. There's always a trade-off. So if you sell your most expensive asset, your home, it's very it's very mathematically expensive to move. It's emotionally expensive to move. It's relationally

expensive to move. It's the biggest

disruption you can cause to happen automatically in your life short of some kind of a tragedy.

And so it's the last thing we tell you to do. Now, if you've got a house payment that's 60% of your take-home pay, we're going to tell you to sell it regardless of the pain because it's not sustainable.

But just looking for a quick way out of your debt and cashing in your retirement and having a huge penalty in tax bill is

a short-term release for a long-term stup stupid move. >> Yep. >> Selling your home often is a short-term release becomes long-term stupid because now you don't own a piece of real estate anymore. real estate starts going up and you've boxed yourself out of the market cuz you're renting in your old hometown in that guy's case. So, when we say suck

it up, buttercup, play through, it's for

your good because it's it 10 years from

today it's going to be the best decision

to not go through a home move. Now, again,

if you have to, it's different, but but >> or if you want to, right? if they were talking about don't like the house.

>> I hate this area. I don't want to live in this state anymore.

>> That's okay. That that's a good point.

But but don't do it as the quick fix, as

the basically the sole motivation because I'm tired and I don't want to work extra. No, work extra. Be tired. It's

worth it. 10 years from today, you'll be glad you did. the 10 year from now version of you will like the current version of you better >> if you will pay a price to win.

>> Yeah. And I think what he said or what she said he said you know to a degree is very relatable that he's working his butt off and it's just going to payments like you you know it's different if you work hard and you make all this extra money. You get to do fun stuff with it.

But when you're in that season of sacrifice allowing that to be a driver

too of like I am pissed. That's why even like selling the cars, it's like, okay, when you do the math, you know, okay, what if I got a $5,000 car and 5,000?

How much extra was I having to work for that $5,000 that was sitting in a in truck equity that could be to this, right? Like, you got to be thinking about it. And that starts to like really mess with you and you actually see the hours I'm working, what, you know, if I could sell an asset >> to save on a day of working, I'll do that all day. Like, we'll just keep moving. >> Could she drive a $4,000 minivan instead of a $16,000 minivan? and cuz she's got

more kids than gee man there kids everywhere >> and um you know that kind of thing. So what we want for you is is to hurt in

the short term not the long term

>> so that you win in the long term. If you're going to choose pain, choose pain today that gives you the long-term result. The Bible says no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness. And with >> and so the way I'm going to say that is or suck it up buttercup or it's the same thing.

>> Well, honestly, >> live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. >> Yeah. The short term, right? Sell if they sold the house and that's the gain of short term.

But long term, you think about it, the dynamic of even moving to his hometown that she wasn't crazy about could be long-term pain in a bit, you know what I mean? Bitterness in her of like, oh my gosh, we got stuck in the small town that I didn't want to be at the first place. We made that move four years ago. Right?

And that's that's a red flag for me.

>> What feels good in the moment is seldom the right financial decision.

It feels good to impulse a brand new car

and put nothing down and lease it and drive it off the lot. Long term, it's one of the dumbest things you can do. It feels good in the moment to buy something you can't afford, to eat something you don't need to eat. It feels good in the moment, but the long-term consequences to your health and your financial wealth are real. And

and so that's the trade-off we human beings make. The ability to delay

pleasure for a greater good is the primary sign, psychologists tell us, of

emotional and spiritual maturity.

Can I look at a great future and pay a

painful price to get to the great future? That's maturity. learning to

delay pleasure. I was looking at a was watching a uh a piece of research the

other day on um one of the podcasts that I follow. I can't think which one it was. One of the psychologists that's out there and they were talking about this study they did of uh seven-year-old kids

and they put them in a room and they put three marshmallows in the middle of the plate and they said, "Do not eat the

marshmallow." and they walked out of the room with, you know, two-sided mirrors and cameras and everything and watched them sit there. 100%

of the eight-year-olds ate the marshmallows. [laughter] However, some of them went, you know, 10 seconds. Some of them went 10 minutes before they ate it. The ones

that went 10 minutes, they studied them 15 and 20 years later, and they were inordinately more successful because they delayed. They had the even at seven or eight years old, they had the >> personality, >> they had the discipline to

avoid something that that is harmful.

>> You know, >> is that nature or nurture? Do they learn that in a household or you think that's part of your personality? >> I have no idea. I do know this.

Regardless of how you got there, once you're there, it's a choice.

>> Whether DNA got you there or your mom and daddy got you there, once you're sitting in front of the marshmallow, it's still your choice. [laughter] >> You still have the ability. It's so true. still have a choice.

I mean, you know, so it's, you know, we we do know now, for instance, that some people have a a genetic predisposition to being alcoholics >> more than others, >> right? But once you know that, then you still got to take a drink or not take a drink, right? >> You got to decide, >> am I going to am I going to do this or not? >> And um so, you know, who falls off the wagon?

Who doesn't fall off the wagon?

And and it really is maturity.

>> Sometimes we see it at a in a young person. We have a 19year-old call in here with the numbers are just astronomically amazingly positive, right? We're like, "How did you do that at 19?" And we're all agast at how wonderful this 19-year-old is. And we get that call on this show fairly often because we get those kinds of 19-year-olds around here. But but the reason we're all kind of so impressed is that he or she matured to that degree at

that young age. And it's not a chronological maturity. It's an emotional and a spiritual maturity. And so the the I think the way that I got

propelled forward in that category was when I was the opposite and was impulsive as crap. Did everything get rich quick, get rich quick, get rich quick. I went broke as a result. lost everything including my dignity [music] and I'm humiliated, not just humble and

sitting there with driving a $100 car.

You were born that year and and [music] I've got a bies I can't feed. And so I I

didn't have a choice. I snapped and went to the other side of the equation. And

so I don't want that for you guys as your method of learning. I'd rather just teach you [music]

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might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Matthew in Oklahoma. Dave, it's addressed to you.

Ready? >> Okay, >> Dave, back in the early days of establishing the seven baby steps, did you ever have to use your emergency fund? If so, what type of emergency happened that you felt warranted using

the savings account for? Huh?

Well, when I was climbing out of this,

there weren't any baby steps because I hadn't started teaching financial peace university yet. So, there was no starter emergency fund of $1,000 and later a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. I just had the goal of the 3 to six months of expenses.

So, I did

use that emergency fund, the big one.

The only time that is specific I I'm I think it's the only time, but if it if not, it's almost the only time >> was uh that

um did I cash I'm trying I suddenly thinking I might have cash flowed. I might have cash flowed, but I think out of the budget, but I think almost 40 years ago. >> I think I used the emergency fund. No, it's not that long. It's um 30 plus years ago. >> Okay. >> So, we had just bought the house on Victory Trail. >> Oh, okay. Mhm. >> And um

um >> I was eight. >> Yeah. Yeah. You were 8 years old.

>> So, 30 years ago. >> 30 years ago. So, um, that heat and air

went out and it was $7,000 at that time,

which today would be $17,000, right?

But, um, yeah, the heat and air went out and I called a guy and he fixed the heat and air and I wrote a check and it was I I the reason I remember it, it was the first time we had a drama, a catastrophe

happen that we had the money and it was

just like an incon. That's when I came up with the phrase that when you have an emergency fund and you have an emergency, it's an inconvenience rather than a crisis.

>> You've heard us say that a 100 times, but that was every time before that that the heat and air blinked, it was a crisis because I didn't have the stinking money. And I I I the only

reason I'm thinking I might have cash flowed is I paid cash for the house.

So, and uh from a book deal that we had done on financial peace and um

but it's possible that I was low enough on cash that I used the emergency fund >> for that >> for that. But I that I I I have a distinct memory around it, so I must have. >> Um other times I know I cash flowed everything else after that, whatever broke or blew up or whatever. uh because we've always kept uh a larger amount of cash than most people because it gives my wife uh after what we've been through with bankruptcy and everything, it gives her an extra level of security.

that's been largely true uh in the last

in the last 35 years. So uh but in more

recent years, I don't think anything about it. It's all cash flow. I wouldn't it'd be very unusual for me to have an emergency today that I actually tapped into a store of cash certificates that that would be very strange. Um we did

not have to do that during co even in our business because the business never became unprofitable. So we never had to touch the um even though we lost huge

sums of revenue we never went into the red and so we never had to touch our retained earnings. So, it didn't happen then and that would have been another time that it could have happened. But, um, but yeah, that's that's an interesting question. It makes me go back and think um I remember more clearly all the times I didn't have emergency [laughter] fun and there was drama and nashing of teeth and crisis and everything else.

Wyatt is in Pennsylvania. Hey, Wyatt, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are y'all doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I had a question here. I'm not exactly at a I guess financial trouble crossroads. More at a what do I do now crossroads. I have a $65,000

uh in total debt over my head. And I'm trying to figure out if it might be a good idea to sell my truck for around 41,000 and take like 20 25,000 in the

hole to get myself out of debt faster.

>> So you owe 65 on the truck.

I owe 6162 roughly and then I owe about 4,000 on credit cards. >> And what's your household income?

>> Uh my income is 78,000 a year.

>> And are you married?

>> No. >> Okay. Yes. I would sell the truck even if it was paid for.

>> All right. >> Because here's a good rule of thumb.

Things that have motors and wheels go down in value. You cannot build wealth

while you own too many things that have motors and wheels. Too many things is defined as in our world as more than half of your annual income. Your truck is more than half your annual income in value.

And so it's eating your lunch. Every day

it goes down in value and you're trying to pedal uphill and it's killing you.

So, um, are you sure it's only worth 41

or 45? >> I I got bored one night while I was at work and I checked the Kelly Blue Book value, which in my experience is a little bit heavy-handed with its uh estimates, but it estimated at around 41,000 because >> private sale or trade in >> I believe I put down trade in. I don't remember exactly.

>> I go back and do a little research cuz it it What kind of truck is it?

It's a 2025 2500 HD. It did have an

accident like about a year after I bought it. Well, less than a year after I bought it. And it has like some minor paint damage, but other than that, it's mechanically sound. >> Yeah. Well, this is this is a hardcore work truck >> and so there's probably a pretty good market for it, >> right? >> Um, you know, versus if you just had some kind of weird truck or something, it might be harder to sell. So, this you might be able to sell it and get out of it. negative equity into it?

>> No, >> I don't believe so. I I they quoted

$76,000. I put $10,000 down. Okay. As

the uh down payment. >> Yeah. So, you bought a truck at the time. >> You bought a truck at the time that you paid for it what your annual income was about.

>> And so, >> uh Yes. >> Yeah. And so, ever since that day, this truck's been hammering you. And so, that's what brings you to this question.

And so, yeah, I I risk my case, you know. I I think I I I would sell it if I woke up in your shoes. And I like a nice truck. I've got trucks. I love trucks.

>> Yes. You just have to take a small loan from a credit union or something for the difference and enough to >> and get you a 5,000 get you a $5,000 truck and then become a rich guy. Cuz most of the guys that drive trucks like this aren't the rich guys. Most of the guys that drive trucks that are five or 10,000 are the rich guys, especially on a construction site. Yeah.

All right. Bridget is in Chicago. Hi, Bridget. What's up?

>> Hello there. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Uh, what I was calling for was that so I'm I was a teacher. Now I'm an administrator and I'm fully funding my pension and my contribution is 9%.

>> Mandatory. >> And so my question my question >> is that that is a mandatory contribution.

>> It is. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. And so my question is should that 9% be included as a part of

the 15% that should be towards retirement?

>> Excellent question. Okay. There's two problems with your pension. Um one is

you don't have any control over what

it's invested in.

>> Okay. >> Two. So so the outcome of what you end up with at the end is totally up to someone else. Okay.

>> The second problem is because pensions are heavily regulated, what they invest in is more conservative. And so your average rate of return that you're going to see is about 7%.

>> So because of those two things, I would take your 9%. I would count about half of it. >> So if we want to just use round numbers, let's count 5% of it towards your 15.

I'd still put in another 10 in money that you control, but that's giving it some credit. But we're not giving it a 100% credit, so to speak. It'll still be there. I'm not predicting the end of it, but I think you'll do a lot better with the 10% contribution than you do with this 9% contribution.

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Matthew is in Boston. Hi, Matthew. How are you?

>> Hi, David. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, so I'm calling because I'm kind of in a spot where we're not really sure what to do anymore. My wife and I, um, she lost her job almost two years now.

Um, and we're kind of uh we've been just kind of racking in credit cards every month uh to kind of pay for bills and pay for everything going on. >> Why hasn't she gotten a job in two years? >> So, she got laid off uh during her maternity leave. Uh she did get like a long severance for that and um just now

she's about to have a second baby. So she's been in dur uh during this time.

And then she well she has been working kind of like an administrative role with her um with her cousin not getting nearly as much about like you know she went from probably 5k a a month to uh

about $2,000 a month now.

>> And what do you make >> with my I make about 4500 a month.

>> And what do you do? >> Um accounting.

>> Okay. And so if

she got laid off during maternity, she had the baby, and you guys knew you weren't making it, why did you keep doing exactly the same thing for 2 years?

>> Well, I think we I think we have uh just

kind of our principles of, you know, we didn't want to pay for daycare, especially since it's so expensive up here and um you know, having being at

home. I work from home and then she is also at home. So, uh, she's kind of just watching, um, watching our daughter. And then also, >> you're still not answering my question.

>> Second one.

>> That doesn't none of that changes the fact that you were going in the hole every month and you kept doing that for two years. Why? Why didn't you change something?

>> Yeah, I mean, I think uh that's a very good question. I've, you know, I think we were just kind of a little naive. Um,

and now we're at the point where I mean we we we're going to look into it regardless because we were trying to get out of Massachusetts, but we're >> So you have you have you have the second child on the way, right? >> Save us. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And you make 4500. And

what is your how much debt do you guys have not counting your home?

>> Uh, so not counting the home, it's about 30k. And that's pretty [clears throat] well. Uh, should I include student loans as well? >> Yeah. Uh, so with student loans, probably about 50k.

>> So about 20 in student loans. What's the third 20 in student loans? So what's the 30?

>> It's a pretty much all credit cards now.

>> Okay. No car debt. >> Credit cards. >> Uh, we do have a um Oh, sorry. Actually, yes, we do have a car as well. Um,

there's about 20,000 on the car left to

pay. >> Mhm. Mhm. And and what is it?

What kind of car? What the car is? >> Yeah. What kind of car? >> Uh just just a Tesla Model Y.

>> Okay. All right. Um that car will bring

more than 20,000, won't it?

>> Possibly. It's um uh it'll probably just

pay off the loan. More likely, I think.

>> Good. Sell it this week.

>> You can't afford a payment.

Uh, it is our only car though. That's the other thing. >> Okay. I don't care. Sell it this week and get you a $5,000 car.

>> You can't afford to drive a Tesla.

You're broke and going in debt every month.

>> These are the kinds of ways you need to start talking to yourself.

I can't afford to do this. We can't

afford to go out to eat, which you've been continuing to do. You're broke. You

can't afford to go on vacation. We can't afford to buy three airline tickets and take the babies to see her mother. We're broke.

>> But you haven't been telling yourself that. So, you got $30,000 in credit card debt paying Tesla payments.

That's what I'm talking about. >> Does that feel accurate, Matthew? Do you get that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've I've been making cuts where I can. We've definitely made the cuts, but just clearly not. >> How much in the whole per month are you guys that you're having to use credit cards for?

>> Uh, so pretty much um we're probably

putting I, you know, started this dumb thing when we did have uh both of us

working where I said, "Let's rack up points. So, let's put everything on the credit cards and pay everything every on at the end of the month, which we were doing fine with until she lost her job.

And then we're like, well, let's just keep putting it on the credit cards so that we can >> manage continue to everything that we need. So, how much >> if we were to do a really tight budget, which you have not done and now you've got to do starting today, >> how much do you really have to have to stay afloat beyond the $6,500?

4,500 from you, 2,000 from her.

>> So, is that just to survive and pay credit cards or not?

>> Just just to survive and pay credit cards. No eating out, no new shoes, no

new purses, no new hobbies, nothing.

What does it take to feed your freaking family only?

>> Uh, I put everything down. is probably going to be I I just like on my own simple budget I

uh I have about

negative $300 left to left to put everything at the end of >> that and that's not how y'all are living right now, right? Y'all are a little bit more >> Yeah. >> widespread. So $300. So then how much is the >> When I get rid of the Tesla payment, >> how much is that per month? >> Now you're balanced. How much is the Tesla payment a month?

>> Uh, right now it's at it's 700 per month. >> Perfect. Good.

>> Now we got $400 in margin. Yep.

>> You're driving a $5,000 car, not a $20,000 car.

>> Do you have any money anywhere saved?

>> We do. I do have um you know just some

uh some money in like uh Robin Hood and

>> Yay. How much? Simple investments and stuff like that. About like 5K in there.

>> Perfect. Go buy a car with that >> and sell the Tesla. And now you're $400 upside, $400 right side >> and cut up the credit cards.

>> Say it together. >> Do you have one with you right now, Matthew? >> A card.

>> Uh, a credit card. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cut it out right now. >> Cut it. Just cut one. Just do it.

>> I want to hear it. I want to hear it in the phone.

>> Will he do it? He's gonna be like, "Oh, I left it in my other wallet." Do it, Matthew. You got it. This is This is the

start of change, Matthew. This is the start of change. You got to do some extreme stuff.

You guys have to stop. You got to stop the whole thing. >> By the way, we're completely aligned with your wife being at home with the babies. That's great. But we're going to put your butt to work.

>> Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to do uh

to make more money. I've started just like a woodworking side business.

>> Well, I think you make more money doing bookkeeping on the side.

You got one? >> You got a card? >> Yep. >> Let's hear it. >> Yep.

>> That was it. >> You did it. What kind of card was it?

>> Yeah. >> As a just a discover card.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, you just discovered freedom.

Matthew, [laughter] >> Matthew, was so proud of you. Way to do it. Seriously, you got to be start making some actually a action, some action steps. And that's one that's a proclamation of like we're done.

cut the cord on the Tesla. >> It's hard to go into credit card debt when there are no credit cards. You know what I mean? Like when you don't have an option.

>> Yeah. >> Literally, when you physically don't have an option, you have to start getting creative and you're like whittling away at these cards. Cut them all up. Whittling away at them.

They'll start to go away. >> You don't have the $700 ridiculous car payment. You've got to make adjustments to be able to live the life that you are choosing to live with your wife being with the babies. And again, we're aligned to help do that, but we're not going to act like it didn't cost something.

>> She has a $3,000 less income now than she had. And so, >> and let me go back to what you said, Matthew. You said now she's working for my sister-in-law or a family member making less, you know, cuz it sounds like a favor kind of thing. If she can find a side hustle with the hours she's doing and get paid twice as much cuz it's not some weird connection of family and you're like being nice >> all day. >> All day. all day. So, >> the family be nice somewhere else.

>> Yes. Yes. You guys are in a in a mode.

You guys, you have to, man, get on this.

But yeah, it's the 50 grand. Those student loans and credit cards, you start chipping away. And in two years, Matthew, you guys could be out if you got if you guys can get an extra two grand a month by working extra, selling stuff. It's amazing the progress you can make. So, >> so we got you to cut one card. If we really get you to sell the Tesla, you can really do this.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality is my co-host today and my

daughter. Julie is with us in Boca Ratan. Hi Julie. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh kind of a pickle situation. I'm

wondering if I should sell my house to

pay off uh a total debt of 575,000

and $162 thou um,000.

>> 575 on what?

>> 575162.

>> I know 575 is the debt on what?

So part of that includes a heliloc of

51,000, credit card debt of 74,75,

student loans of 53,000,

um a custody battle that I'm currently going through of 7,76,

uh new roof I had to pay because my insurance claim was denied of 27,700,

and an IRS that for my business of around 18,000.

>> Wow. It's been a tough five years, hasn't it?

>> Oh, yeah. It just felt um just felt horrible. >> Yeah. So, the 162 in addition to the 575

is what?

>> Um well, I mean, all of it is just it's

credit cards. It's um >> No. So, you you broke the two numbers apart. Did Did you not give me two different numbers, right?

>> Uh no, I gave you uh the the total is $575,162.

So So we can round it to 575 >> and not 162,000. 575,162.

I got you. Okay. I misunderstood. Okay.

>> Okay. So and and how much is your first mortgage on the home?

So my four first mortgage I have 338,000

left. >> Is that in the 575?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So you've got about $225,000

in nonmortgage debt. Unless we count the

HELOC, right?

>> Unless you count the HELOC and the roof.

I did a uh PACE program and they included the roof in my um escrow. And so, and what is your income today?

>> Um, I own a business. Uh, I'm a physical therapist and I have a group practice.

And it's a little foggy to understand

the numbers. Um, I have a business coach who's helping me right now, but um,

basically I grossed around uh, 385,000.

Uh, but my take-home, my personal salary was about $65,000.

>> Okay. And that's what you paid taxes on was 65.

>> Uh the taxes actually are uh backdated.

I've I've >> No, no, no. And when you file your income tax, what will be your income showing on your income tax return?

>> Oh, the 65,000.

>> Okay. So, that's really what you're making. >> My personal. >> Okay. >> Yeah, my personal. But I mean I and I'm trying to fix this with my business coach because there's a lot of expenses I'm trying to get rid of like my lease.

>> Yeah. Agree. and payroll's high and then

>> Yep. And then everybody's making money but you in this business. I got you.

>> Basically, >> I think I think that's what your coach is. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Basically, I'm the one working to pay the bills. If I stop seeing clients, then >> How much could you sell the house for, Julie?

>> So, my realtor wants me to We've listed

the house at 575. It's been in the market for a month.

Um, at first I I thought I had an

assumable mortgage, but I found out with the bank that it's only assumable to family members. So, >> the highest offer I've received was for 545,000, which is what the my neighbors sold his house for. >> Yeah.

>> And I don't know if it matters, but my interest rate I bought it in 2021. I had amazing credit. It I have an interest rate of 3.375.

>> Okay. So when you give me the list of things that equal the 575,

what I hear are a lot of that's why I

say it's been a tough 5 years. The numbers all are associated with painful things.

Child support or or child custody, uh

IRS debt, a roof, a roof that went bad,

um >> 74,000 in credit card debts, >> overspending that's out of control. Uh there's a lot of stuff in here that uh

repres that I I think is mostly in your

rearview mirror and is not representative of your future. Am I wrong?

>> No, that's correct. And um one problem I

um sorry just that it's been very hard.

>> Yeah, it has. I can tell. >> Um and one thing I realized was that I, you know, in therapy that I've been trying to save everybody but myself.

>> Yep. You know, I bought a three-bedroom house on my own. Um, you know, my my husband didn't help me. It was just me.

That's a whole another subject. How >> How old are you? >> Um, I'm 41.

>> Okay. >> Are you still married, Julie, or you guys are you're you're divorced and that's what the custody was for the child. Or is this >> We were never We were never married.

This is just a custody battle, which

um >> Okay. >> My lawyers are telling me that because I declare more money, they're thinking that he does some kind of tax evasion.

They're thinking that I may have I may end up having to pay him child support.

>> Now, this isn't your husband that you just mentioned, though, right? This is a different guy. >> No, no, this is my daughter's father. We were never married. He just same guy.

Okay. >> When you bought the house, that's what you were referring. >> That's what you were meaning him when you said. >> That's what I meant. Yeah. I bought the house just myself. My efforts, you know,

>> he he contributed when he lives with me, but it's just all me.

>> Okay. >> I was going to mention that, you know, I I bought the house. cuz I realize now it's, you know, I bought a threebedroom.

I wanted to help my parents. They moved in with me. In my culture, you know, we're Brazilian. You know, you help your parents and you take care of them, but I just can't do it anymore. And I had a conversation with them. I mean, I it's not their fault, but I just they're looking for a place now. They're considering returning to Brazil, and I'm just trying to figure out what to do.

Yeah. >> For myself and my daughter. I >> I think you sell the house for 545,000.

Take the offer.

Okay. >> And um give yourself [clears throat] a fresh start with all of the mistakes then in your rearview mirror. Now, the trick from the mistakes that I always want to do, I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my life. I often say I have a PhD in DUMB.

And so, um I want to make sure I never repeat that mistake that caused that.

Okay? So, I don't want to repeat the mistake that causes me to be $18,000 in the hold of the IRS. So, I got to get my business coach and my business running right. I don't want to repeat the mistake that trying to save everybody. I

don't want to repeat the mistake of this or that or this or that. And just go down the list of these items that you're paying off and you're not even going to be able to pay them all off. You're still going to have $30,000 in debt, right? >> That's it. That's it. Yeah.

>> But you can clear >> people have even said that, you know, they've suggested that I do a chapter 13r one of my bedrooms. You're not bankrupt. You won't the chap you they won't let you in at chapter 13. They'll throw you out because you have this huge asset.

So, no, you need to sell the house. You need to put all this mess in your rearview mirror and start fresh cleaning

up $30,000 worth of debt. Start making more than 65 out of this business so that because you cut your expenses there, never get behind on the IRS again. um never get in a situation where

you're living with somebody you're not married to again. It sets up these kinds of problems and on and on and on and on.

Just make the list down through here. What did I do? I was trying to save everybody. You know, I think you got a good head on your shoulders. I think you can do it. But you need to put the pain in the past.

>> [music]

>> Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

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One of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how they're winning. I just got this from awesome review from our Every Dollar budgeting app. Quote, "Every dollar is excellent. It helped me get my personal finances in order." Well, there you go.

Now that I'm married, my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account. It really helps us maintain a common vision and set of goals. Man, that's perfect. That's exactly what we want to hear. Hey, you can work the Ramsay plan the Ramsay way. what you

hear here on the air. We will coach you right along the way only on Every Dollar. And you can start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or at Google Play today. Doug is in Fort Worth. Hi,

Doug. How are you?

>> I'm doing great and I'm so excited to hear you, Dave. But how are you?

>> Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

>> Love it. [clears throat] >> Uh I'm calling today. Uh

my wife owns a small business. Well, actually, we both own the small business, but she runs it. And um my

question is she's she stopped paying herself because um she's trying to get

um out of the negative. And every time

we discuss it, it ends up in a in an argument. Um, but we got some supplemental I worked full-time. Um, and

we got some supplemental payment uh through part-time um, stuff at the beginning of the year and she didn't tell me she was going to stop paying herself and I found out in January and

we got in a big fight about it and then um, she'll pay herself a little bit here and there but still not up to her salary she was doing last uh, late last year.

And every time we talk about it, it just ends up in an argument. And I just wanted to get your advice on how I should approach it or if I should just

trust her that, you know, whatever is happening in the business is is going to work out or I'm just stuck at what I should do.

>> What kind of business?

>> It's a spa. >> How long ago did she start it?

>> She's had it about 3 years now. How much money have you all invested in it?

>> Uh she she bought it from her her the

previous owner and it was like a um

owner. She she took they did a loan

between each other. So um she kind of still pays her a salary um until the the

loans paid off.

>> Pays whose salary? The former owner.

>> The former owner that was >> Okay. She has debt to the former owner and that's the only debt she has

>> as far as I know. Yes. >> And do you know how much that debt is?

>> Um it [clears throat] was it was only maybe a couple hundred thousand.

>> Yeah. Okay. So the bit the first mistake

you all have made that has caused a lot of this angst between the two of you is you don't handle your money together.

She's got her world and you've got your world. And so when you start speaking into her world, you don't have a foothold to do that because you're just

a roommate.

>> Mhm.

And the roommate doesn't like it when you tell her what to do. Instead, you guys need to have indepth combined

finances, full transparency, so you know

exactly what she's making cuz you're having to put it in the monthly budget together every month at your house. And you would never enter into a business transaction that's a couple hundred,000

without your spouse knowing every stinking detail and being in agreement aligned to it. And you don't even know what's going on down there. Oh, I think it's a couple of hundred thousand. Well, that's a fairly good rounding error.

>> Yeah. >> You know, so that tells me how disengaged you are until you decide you want to get engaged when she doesn't pay herself. >> But you don't know what's going on down there. So, that's why she's that's why she's insulted. >> How much are how much you guys bringing in household income? If she doesn't pay herself and you guys are living off yours, your salary, what are you making?

>> Uh, I make about 55. Um, we started at

the beginning of the year. We're helping a church um, do music and um, they've

been paying us uh, 500 a week. So, I

think she's looking at that as supplemental um, to where she does she doesn't really need to pay herself cuz it's not like we're struggling. We were in baby step three. We were building our emergency fund cuz we got out of debt. Um, but now

that's stopped. Um, >> so you went $200,000 in debt. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, but we were I mean we did our personal finances together, but yeah, like you're right. I have involved in her. >> No, you don't. No, no, no, no, no, you don't. That's not true, Doug. Because she quit paying herself a salary which would have gone into your personal finances and you discovered it later.

You are not doing your personal finances together.

>> No, she paid herself all last year. She stopped in January and that's when I found out that cuz she didn't pay herself and I asked her why she hadn't paid herself and that's when she just told me that she was

um she >> losing money >> shut down on me >> losing money. Yeah. Yeah. So her

business is failing

and anytime you question her about it, it shames her.

>> Puts salt in the wound. and it puts salt in the wound and and so honey the

business is not doing well. I want to help >> but but just know where's your paycheck.

That's not a help. And so um yeah, you

need you guys need to get together and look at the business together in a supportive way. How can I help? What's

going on? How can what's happening here?

and um and make some and we're on the same team and we're making decisions together here. Not you haven't put your part in >> and that's still the language you're using tells us all of this. Um so um

I don't know. I mean um you speak into Winston's business, right?

>> Sure.

I mean, yeah, some of it I'm like I mean, there there's a there's a level at which we see money come in and out and we're talking about him. We were just talking about a deal. Actually, he's going to go do a showing today. And I'm like, "Oh, great. This, this, and this." Now, I'm probably not the most detailed person in the world, just like he'll probably, you know, I mean, to it's all to a degree, but high level when we look at our numbers every single month. Yeah.

I mean, we know what's going on. >> Yeah. But if if something was going on that he was losing money on, he would know it. >> Oh, yeah.

Well, he would he tells me like if there's a deal that Yeah. that they Yeah. They bought something and it was like, "Oh, we're selling it for less than what?" And that it's a loss and that sucks. It's like, "Okay." Yeah.

But it's being talked about. >> Yeah. >> 100%. >> And that's, you know, that that's the process.

Yes. And so >> Yeah. And I think it's an attitude at which I don't which Doug I understand why you would be frustrated.

but also the way you approach it and the

way you guys have this conversation.

It's either that the business is between you all and you're, you know, and it almost splits you apart emotionally or together you lock arms and say, "Hey, we're taking on this world and this business and everything together and the problems out there." That's the problem.

It's not us, it's out there. And so pointing it at the right direction and at the right thing I think is what's important because it's it's almost like a third party where it actually starts to become her identity instead.

>> Now she's not he's not been involved until he questions her about it. Right.

Right. >> So she's insulted. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> And so that's she'll be defensive which makes sense why she would be defensive because she's not in the numbers. You're not in the numbers throughout the month and you [clears throat] guys aren't talking about it.

>> Yeah. >> Um but >> let's sit down and look at how this business is operating. What are the parts of it? What are the details?

And what can we do together to get this going? Hey, I'll come down there and help. I mean, what do you need? I'll cut the janitorial out.

I'll come clean the toilets. But, uh, what have we got to do?

And, um, otherwise, that couple of

hundred thousand that you owe somebody is going to come down around your head at some point. And so, we need to get this thing back profitable again where it's making money and uh, instead of

losing money. And right now, it's losing money. So, and and and yeah, I'm I'm

suggesting you become supportive and ask how I can help. And I made a mistake by not being more involved and being more helpful. I am sorry for that. And uh how

I'm going to start today though, being very involved and very helpful. And so, where's how should I do that? And what's the place to start? Because we need to get this thing moving cuz it's scaring me and I know it's probably scaring you.

>> Yeah. And there's probably a story you've made up in your head, Doug. a story she's made up in her head of what he thinks about her and her business acument. You know what I mean? That may not all be true. >> Exactly. >> So, it's saying those things out loud, I think, is really, really important. And you guys start get on that trajectory where Yeah. where you're seen as helpful and not [music] being an accuser of what she is or isn't doing. >> Yep.

Oh, [music]

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It's free. Brad is in de mo Iowa. Hi

Brad. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, quick question. How much state should a 32year-old guy put in his

pension fund being still around and still um viable when he retires at 65?

>> Um I I would actually study the uh

history and the articles that are written about the particular pension fund, but overall as a category I think pension funds are safe.

>> They're safe. Does that take any responsibility away from me doing additional >> No. >> Is that retirement savings? >> No. There it does not. Pension funds will underperform standard investments because because of the regulation, they typically are going to yield about a 7% rate of return. And so if you put the same amount into a good growth stock mutual fund or funds in a Roth IRA, you

would make uh well more than twice as

much. meaning you'd make 11 or 12% 10 or

11 12% somewhere in there a as an average rate of return but that's a lot more than double the result of dollars then and so very very important that you

do your own investing uh and not rely exclusively on a pension fund regardless of if the pension fund is going to be there or not. I thought you were saying is it going to collapse and I'm going to lose everything and have nothing. I doubt that's going to happen, but you definitely want to have money that you have control of where it's invested and

you want and that you get to decide the disposition of it as you reach the retirement years. So, >> what percentage of your income is going into the pension?

>> Well, it's all it's all um uh employer

paid. >> Oh, then you need to be putting 15% away >> and they pay in to an annuity fund as well that's that's growing also. Yeah,

retirement. Both are lame.

>> Both are lame. Including the annuity.

Yes. Even the annuity last year had a 20% return. >> Well, the market had a 25% return.

>> Mhm. Okay. So, both are lame. Continue

to build my own retirement account.

>> Absolutely. You need to be doing baby step four when you get there. When you're out of debt and have your emergency fund in place, following the baby steps, you need to be putting 15% of your income aside for retirement. And then all of the employer funded things

are just going to be gravy on a really nice large biscuit that you build.

>> Gotcha. >> And I think both are going to be there.

They're just they're just underperforming products compared to good mutual funds in a Roth.

>> Yeah. But for some people like we had a caller 9% >> mandatory >> was going in mandatory and so you cut it in half. So four and a half 5% went to the 15 >> Exactly. >> percent rule. >> Exactly. But in his case, he's not putting anything, >> so he don't need to. It's a full 15%.

Yep. >> A quote unquote benefit, >> which is very weird because um

>> in the old days, when I first started this show 30 something years ago, almost 40 years ago, the um pensions were

everywhere. 70% of the companies had a pension. >> Now, uh I think it's like 4% of the companies have a pension. >> It's very unusual to find an actual pension anymore, unless it's government.

>> I was going to say more so government. Yeah. >> Yeah. see teacher pensions and union pensions and that kind of stuff, >> but actual corporate America has just about done away with them. >> Uh because they're difficult to manage.

They're highly regulated. They they it's very hard to make them work in terms of managing them for the benefit of your employees. U but many do and they they

seldom completely collapse. I mean, you've got some pensions, some of the state pensions are in trouble uh that are being run very poorly. Illinois, there your pension sucks because your government sucks. They're horrible at managing money. And as an example, I'd be scared to death if I was dependent on that one. Yeah. >> But now there's other But if you and all you got to do is just Google, you'll see what I'm talking about. I mean, there's a lot of states that are for so poorly run, the actual state is creating a a

horrible pension product. But um or or

municipalities, the same thing. your local city government for your police pension or whatever. Uh you you got to look at that kind of stuff and make sure it's solid. But even if it is or isn't solid, I'm still going to go build my own biscuit and then whatever this stuff is is just the gravy on it.

And that's going to put you in a good position where you're never never really worried about that.

That that's the guy we're not going to be. Benjamin is in Los Angeles. Hi Benjamin. How are you?

>> Doing pretty good. How about you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I had a question because I am on baby step two and one of my debts is in

collection and I called the collection agency today and offered them a settlement offer to pay it and uh to pay it and be done with it.

>> And they declined my settlement offer.

>> Okay.

Tell them to tell them to call me when Tell them to call you back when they feel better.

>> That's what I did. I told them when they're ready to accept my settlement offer to call me back. >> Yeah. Yeah. And next time they call you, just say, "Hey, there's a settlement offer on the table." We don't even have to have a conversation. If you take that, I'll send you money. How much do you owe them? And what did you offer them? And who is it?

>> I owe them 300. Um, the company is

>> $300.

>> Yes. And I offer colleging over 300

bucks.

>> In total, I have about $2,300 in debt.

And I was just trying to settle the collections and get done with it and offered them 100 bucks and didn't want to take it. So, I was just curious if I should just >> That would not be unusual on $300. I thought we were talking about you were had $5,000 you owed and you hadn't paid them in two years and you offered them $1,500. But on 300 bucks, they're not going to screw with it.

No wonder they laughed at you. Hopefully, you'll be out of debt in a month or two, right? >> I I would just pay them is what I would do. It's 300 bucks.

and then send them the amount. No, I would not settle a $300 debt. >> Yeah. And for a lot of people out there that are settling um yeah, we do find

obviously talking, you know, giving a little ball offer and depending on how long you've been in in the collections process is probably how easily that can

happen. But we also uh have friends at Guardian Litigation. So if you go to guardianlit.com, >> but don't do that with 300 bucks. >> No, no, no, no.

But for everyone else out there, if you are in Baby 2 and you have gotten to this point where collections, it's uh you know, you have >> you got you got 10 or 20,000 bucks in collections. >> Or [clears throat] 50,000 or something, they can help you. Guardian lit can work that through. And they're they're lawyers is what they are.

And so yeah, that you're right. Right. >> But that's a that's a question we get a lot. Not always for 300 bucks.

It's usually it's usually more, but the collections process is real. And so, um, so yeah, and it can work to your benefit, right?

Matter of fact, if you're going to pay in full, get it in writing because they'll double the amount and say they added late charges and try to get more out of you later. So, even with you, Benjamin, on 300 bucks, send have them send you an email exactly what is the balance. wait a week since you just got off the phone with them, but have them send you an email the exact amount and then cut them a check for that that day.

And um but don't give them electronic access to your checking account. They'll take more out than they're supposed to because they lie. Uh it's a filthy business. And so that's why guardian litigation is a good idea to have the lawyers on your side.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> But uh but but don't do that with 300 bucks either. So yeah, it's it's just it's >> I'm glad I'm glad your debt amount though is so low, Benjamin. Honestly, I mean, that's Yeah.

[clears throat] You'll be out of debt quick and then start building up that emergency fund, maybe step three of 3 to 6 months of expenses. >> Precisely. That's how it works.

So, um, typically what happens with

credit card debt is as it gets older,

the credit card company the the older the debt is, meaning the longer it's been since it's been paid, it ages out, the credit card company will quote unquote write it off. Now, that does not mean that you no longer owe the debt. It means they no longer think they can collect it. And so, they take it off of their books and take a tax write off for bad debt on you. Then they sell that bad

debt to a debt buyer at pennies on the dollar. And that debt buyer will try to collect from you. And uh they will work with you because they only paid 2.5 to 5 cents on the dollar for the for the debt, but not on $300.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Heat. Heat.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's rammissysolutions.com.

[music]

>> [music] >> Romans 5:4-5, "Patience produces

character, and character hope, and hope

[music] does not disappoint." Thomas Sell said, "Some people who are very dissatisfied with their lives nevertheless have no intention of changing their own behavior. They want to keep on doing what they've always done, but just have it turn out differently." [laughter] Oh, it's like the definition of insanity. >> Exactly. >> The same thing over and over again >> and expecting a different result. There you go. All right. Jasmine is next.

Jasmine's in St. Louis. Hi, Jasmine. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you all?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, I have a question about um paying

off an auto loan that I took out in my

name for my mom. um the balance of the

loan is a little over 6,000 and I want

to um just understand if it would be

wise to take out a loan against my 401k

or take out the money from my 401k to

pay off the high interest loan.

>> Neither would be wise and and I will walk you through why. Do you not have $6,000 otherwise?

>> I have $6,000. It's in a separate Roth

IRA and also um my son's college fund

and savings, but I don't touch >> Oh, savings. What's in savings?

>> So, I have a little over 5,000 in savings. >> Mhm. And what is your income?

>> I make 105,000 um dollars annually before a bonus.

>> Okay. All right. I would scrape together from some nonretirement something and

pull the 6,000 together and pay it off.

It's a high interest loan. Um I wouldn't have bought the car in the first place if I didn't pay cash for it as a gift to someone, even your mom. Um now here's

why we're not going to cash out your 401k >> or kids college. >> Or your kids college. Yeah. Or any or your Roth or anything. So, if you take money out of a retirement account, they charge you a 10% penalty plus your tax

rate, which in your case is 30%.

So, you're going to get a 30% hit plus a 10% hit to for a total of a 40% hit.

That's going to make your high interest rate look like a deal, >> right? >> So, we don't want to do that. We don't want to borrow money at 40% interest in order to do that. Now, if you borrow on the 401k, you are unplugging a good

mutual fund investing, assuming you've got it invested in good mutual funds.

Um, and and you will pay yourself back

at the rate of 6%. When you leave the

job, and you will leave when you die, get fired, or get a better job, one of the three. uh when you leave the job, that loan is considered due in full and you're facing the same thing with the penalties and interest if you don't repay it at precisely the wrong time for

you to want to come up with money is just when you're doing a job change. So, um no, we don't want to borrow against a 401k anytime, and we certainly don't want to cash out a retirement account or something that has a penalty on it, uh in order to pay off the thing. So, I'm going to take some of the $5,000 and scrape together some money out of my budget and uh I'm going to try to get it paid off that way. >> Yeah.

And making what you're making, too. >> Yeah. You're making enough money to knock this out. >> Yeah.

It'll be amazing.

Yeah. The the car thing, it's real. The

uh the issue with the car debt people, I mean, I feel like this whole show so far. >> Yeah. >> Today, >> I think it has [clears throat] been. Yeah. I think we talked car debt all day long. All right. Open phones at88255225.

Jennifer is in Pittsburgh. Hi Jennifer.

What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Oh my goodness. I'm sorry. I love you. >> How can we help? >> I can't believe.

>> Hey. Uh so um a little bit of a

situation here like uh two years ago

um I was married now separated. Um our

house got hit by a car. Um, we have

probably around 170,000 settlement and

my husband moved out when his mom got sick to take care of her and now he doesn't want to talk about where the money went. Um, >> he doesn't want to talk about what it >> he doesn't want to talk about how the

where's the money >> from the settlement the accident.

>> Yep. >> Yep. Yep. because basically it's >> Are you you said you're you're separated so you're getting a divorce?

>> I'm thinking of it if he's not going to come clean because right now >> No, I'm sorry. Are you Are you separated? Your marriage is not good.

Separated or what's going on?

>> Well, he moved out and he moved out to his mother's house.

>> Why? So right now to at first to take care of her to take care of her because he had she had cancer but after

that the the conversation of buying the house another house is no longer in you know

and the story like he wants us to just get like rent and basically doesn't want

to does he want to help me pay like he's now saying he's in debt.

Um, but honestly, we've been married for so long, but his mom is one of the reasons we fight a lot. And now I feel like I'm like, "This is too much." It's like, you're not telling me anything about the money, and now you want us to rent. And >> well, there's not an us. He lives over there. You live over here.

>> Pretty much. >> Yeah. >> So, now I feel like I really need to talk to to, you know, a lawyer and like

>> Yeah.

[sighs] Yeah, that's what that's your next step. I mean, you need to get some legal advice and then you need to get some marriage counseling advice and decide, you know, if we're going to keep this marriage together, what are going to be the guidelines for the relationship going forward? Because the ones that you have right now don't work.

>> Yeah. And you know, there could be a good chance that that money is gone. The

170 that happened two years ago from the settlement, that's what she's saying she's trying to get.

>> And he and she doesn't know where it is.

So there's Yeah. >> You waited precisely two years too long to deal with it. >> That's right. That's right. >> If you if you're wondering about where it's going to go, you should deal with it the instant it comes up.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> Uh you can't wait two years later and go, "Oh, I wonder what he did.

>> I wonder what happened there. >> I wonder what happened there." That's not going to play out very well.

>> Um All right. I know how much you love social media. >> All right. I love social media.

>> We got a uh we got a question from Instagram for you. Uh I'm 26 years old.

I just sold my house and will be netting $72,000 from the sale. I have no other

debt than the mortgage of my new primary residence. What's the smartest way to use or invest that money?

So, netting 72, but but the other home, I guess, is already bought. Um, so yeah, I mean, if I were you, I'd probably just roll it right into the >> mortgage >> to the mortgage, unless you have consumer debts. >> Make sure your consumer debt is cleared. Work your baby steps. Make sure your consumer debts cleared. You have an emergency fund in place. you're putting 15% of your income away in retirement.

Uh putting money aside for kids college and you're put and then you start paying down your mortgage. And so if you suddenly get a $75,000 bonus, you apply it to whichever one of those baby steps you're in. >> You are. >> And so if you're all the way up to baby step six, you would put it on the mortgage.

>> And Elise from Facebook asks, "It feels weird to be in STOR mode and not paying off debt. We're expecting a baby and the hospital bill should only be around $2 to $3,000. Can we just set that money aside and keep working to pay off our debt? >> I wouldn't.

I would pile up cash. It's just for a short period of time. >> Yeah. >> Um and that, you know, having 10, 20, $30,000 laying around when a baby comes is comforting.

happen that was outside the range of your insurance policies. >> Yeah. That that that is one event that >> who I don't know. There's just a level of peace of like who knows >> and it's just for a short period of time.

>> That's right. I mean, so really, let's say you stack up $20,000 instead of paying down the debt for $20,000. And the day that you and the baby come home from the hospital healthy and there's nothing wrong and everything's okay, you're sitting there with an extra $20,000. You pay it on you pay it on the debt.

You lost the interest on rate on $20,000

of debt for that threemonth period of time, which is nothing. Won't buy you a biscuit. >> Yeah. So when you look over the debt, I would just make sure you you know you pile up cash ready for a baby to come.

Now if you are out of debt

>> and you have a fully funded emergency fund and you're at baby steps four, five, and six, we don't do stork mode.

>> Yeah. >> What we call stork mode is while you're in debt, you temporarily stop paying

down your your debt snowball with a baby on the way to become to be sure about a baby. have some cushion there so it's not just your $1,000 >> emergency and not to spend it. We're not spending on the nursery.

>> Okay, we're we're building up this cash as extra pad that is going to go on the debt the instant that we know everybody's okay. Who would do that?

>> I don't know anybody. That would put this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 90. If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke | March 6, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.88255225

88825-55225 is the phone number to jump in.88255225

alongside the good PhD

Dr. John Deloney. That was fun to say instead of the good doctor. I just mixed it up a little bit. >> It's more honest. Well, it's right at it. It's a PhD. You got two of them, folks. And he's going to he's going to leverage them both, right? Like when someone says like, "Hey, that guy's a doctor." They assume, "Oh, he could heal me." >> Yeah. So, we've got uh an interesting combo. We have a lot of fun, so beware.

We'll help you, but we're going to have fun in the meantime. Sarah's up. She's going to get us started in Phoenix, Arizona. Sarah, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, well, I have a big question. I

want to know, how do I protect my financial future and re regain trust now

that I know my partner has been very dishonest about his debt?

>> Tell us more. And here's what we want to hear. um how dishonest and how long ago did

you find out? Give us that detail.

>> Sure. Sure. Um so I found out it's been

three sets of dishonesty, but the major one was this uh recently in December. I found out he actually has $65,000 in credit card debt.

>> Okay. And finding this out, how did you find out? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I thought he only had $10,000

and so I >> Hold on. Did you make that number up or is that what he told you?

>> That is what he told me. I am a very u a

very straight shooter. I'm older so like I like dating I hit the high points very early on and he told me he had $10,000 in credit card debt. So I was like, "Okay, that's workable." >> So he he lied to your face >> come to find out. Yeah. >> Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. Uh so I planned a you know thought

we were going to spend a future together and get married. So, my Christmas gift was, I'm going to pay off your $10,000 uh credit cards. Um, and so I went into

his open desktop and found a spreadsheet that actually did not have 10,000. It was 65,000.

>> Okay. And and how long ago was this?

>> This was December because that was going to be my Christmas gift. >> Are you all still together?

>> We are still together. >> All right. When you confronted him, what was that like?

>> Yeah, it was very awkward. Uh he just said he was very embarrassed that he's not where he wanted to be in his life and he knows like I'm the person for him and like he didn't want me to run after he found after I found out that truth >> and there's some truth to that cuz you would have Yeah. Here we are 3 months later and you're calling us.

>> Yes. But this was already a year into our relationship. I found this. >> No. Like you said when you when he told you the number 10,000 you thought, "Okay, this is manageable. Like I I can settle for him in this way." And so his impulse >> absolutely >> like what he did was wrong. No question.

But his impulse is right.

>> She will judge me based on this debt number and will not give our relationship a shot.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So he was and is there and here I

am coming after you. Is there Tell me

about the integrity of going through his laptop and going through his financial numbers. Is that something >> completely accident? No, it was um my internet went down at my home. I work remote a couple days a week and um I'm in a like a executive level so I was like I need internet.

I need a quiet office. So he's like just go to mine and so when I logged in cuz I I mean he gave me his password. I logged in to log into the internet for my meetings and the spreadsheet was there. >> Okay.

>> Yes. No, I'm not I was not going. Okay.

All right. >> But I couldn't not look. I'm not going to lie. Once it was there. >> Yeah. But let's let's just boil this down. What's what what do you want John and I to weigh in on? >> Yeah. Um, I guess a couple of things is

one, I get the lie, but I'm very

financially in a separate category.

Like, I paid off $150,000 in student loans. The financial >> piece. You're very very judgmental.

>> Oh, thanks. That's not good. And you're you're you're you have put yourself on a

pedestal and you are looking contempt is one of the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse according to the goman. And contempt is a power hierarchy. I am better than you. >> I don't mean it like that. I'm I'm >> Yeah. I give Okay, you may be right, but I'd like to give her a little more latitude. >> Okay. >> Objection denied. Keep going. Keep

going. You were going somewhere, but John may be right. But I want to play this out. Keep going.

>> I was just trying to give a background cuz again, I've met my per I thought I met my person. And so I'm willing to give up whatever it is to help him, but

not when he's not being honest. But it's also being a 35-year-old single woman that got her doctorate. I work 80our weeks. I work four jobs. To have someone that's not willing to side hustle the same way and get there. Now that's why

John I wanted background.

>> Well, so now John's absolutely right. He got ahead of me, which is not surprising. He has two PhDs. I don't have a degree at all for anybody that's keeping score at home, and I'm proud of it and never going to go get it.

So, I don't care what you think. However, John did catch it, but I I think it's for a different reason. I I I don't think you're judgmental, but I think he's on to something. I'm going to say you're not judgmental, but I think you resent him because you're bringing up how much work you've done.

You've busted your tail. you did everything the right way and he's not willing to at least go get a side hustle.

gumption. Is that right or wrong?

>> Uh partially. Especially when I gift you financial peace and you're not interested. So to me that's just then what are we doing here? There's the question. >> Pay off your credit card debt.

>> I don't know why you're with the guy. Can I be honest with you? I don't know why you're with this guy. And I'm going to this is going to sound awful. I don't know why he's with you cuz cuz here's the thing. Y'all y'all have different beliefs. And me and my wife have been married 23 and a half years. We have different beliefs on a thousand different things.

>> But we share values. >> Yeah. That's great. >> And y'all don't share values.

And somebody can be a great hang. They can be super loyal. They can be somebody you fall in love with. But if you don't share values, you're going to end up starting your marriage in two separate boats, rowing as fast as you can, and you're all going to end up in separate harbors.

I don't think this is the guy, and I don't know if that's why you called. I think I tried to ask you, uh, I don't think that, uh, this is a good fit unless he Now listen, I would say this. I if you haven't told him all of this, now's the time to do the oldfashioned DTR, define the relationship, but tell him where your frustrations are and say, "Those frustrations are leading me to fears that you're not for me." I'd give the guy a shot.

I have judged you and your work ethic,

and I've compared it to mine. I've judged how much debt you have. I've judged your lack of caring about it. and I have made my values your problem.

>> Well, I again I I'm not so much worried

about that. I've started counseling with him because again, I'm invested in him and the relationship. My concern is if we get through the $65,000 debt. Is there a way to regain that that trust about finances? Because I'm more money

goes in a pot. >> Let John tell you how. >> Here's how you regain trust. It's it's very hard, but it's very simple. You give him a map that is 14 days long on

what he needs to do to help regain trust. That might be I want to see your credit report. That might be I want all your social media accounts. Any number of things.

You get to make up the path and he gets to decide whether he wants to walk that journey or not. And after 14 days, you'll reconvene and you commit. If you walk this path, I'm not going to keep keep your lack of that, you know, your dishonesty in my back pocket as an ace that I can play at any time.

you as we move forward slowly and slowly. So, step by step. So, 14 days, then another 14 days, then another 30 days, another 60 days. We're going to give him a road map and give him a chance to follow it.

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All right. Columbia, South Carolina is where we're going next. Lee is there.

Lee, how can we help?

>> Uh, yes, sir. I'm just kind of dealing with a situation with my mom here. Um, we've been living with her for the past few years. She's going through a divorce. Uh, she's got over $300,000

worth of debt, and I've been trying to lay it out for her, but she's kind of being prideful about the situation. She She It's her ownership. So, I'm just trying to see what I should do. Should I cut my losses and move on? Is there anything else I could do to help her? could like try to gift her financial peace university something like that.

>> Before we get into that part, why are you still living with your mom?

>> So, it happened a few years ago. Uh the

situation with me and my wife that we were living in a different household. Uh

it kind of the deal kind of went sour on that end and she offered to let us stay at her home. My mom is an overroad truck driver and so was her soon to be ex-husband. And um

home like 100 days out of the year. So, they just said, "Come on and stay with us. Save up and you get your own stuff." >> What's the plan to get out?

>> So, we had planned to get out originally within a year of being there, but then not even 6 months into us living there,

um my mother came to me asking for $12,000 to help them uh deal with their

monthly finances.

>> Okay. All right. I I know the question is about mom and how do I help her with her debt? So, John, that's a that's a really interesting family situation. And I was I was wanting to see if there was any other dynamics with him and uh

living there and all of this business.

So, this is this is kind of sticky. What do you think? Yeah, it's one of the hardest things in the world, brother, is when someone we love is doing something

that is is destructive and

>> they have no interest in our education

and our wisdom or our advice. They just

want us to participate in their

continued lifestyle.

And so what I want to challenge you on is don't look at her and say she's being

prideful and at the same time become prideful as though you're the you're the keyholder to her future change.

>> Right? >> Be humble and say she doesn't want my

help.

>> And so all I can control here is me. And so I will no longer give money. I will

be willing to talk if if you're interested in systemic change, not just

continue to give you 12 grand every few months. And I it's probably going to cost me my free housing.

And so me and my wife are going to have to figure out what we are going to do next.

>> For sure. For sure. >> Behavior is a language. >> Did give her >> do what? Yeah, we never did give her that 12,000 because that was when we started asking the questions and found out how crazy the finances were.

>> Okay. >> And so we kind of started stepping through trying to say, "Hey, you need to change some things." And that's when her soon to be ex-husband got upset and uh decided he did not want to be around anymore. >> Yeah. Most most parents do not want to hear their children's input about their money or their sex life.

>> Right. >> Right. And on the rare occasion that your mom comes to you and says, "Hey, I'm over my head. I need help. I'll do whatever you say you because you and your wife look like you have it together, then that's an invitation.

I'll walk through that door a 100 times out of 100." >> Right? >> But behavior is a language. She has told you repeatedly through her actions, I don't care what you have to say. This is my life and I'm going to live it. By the way, can I have $12,000?

>> Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think she wanted out of it originally and now it's just a it's a mixed bag of emotions. Um my mother was kind of a uh a victim of abuse as a as a child and I don't think she's ever really coped with that fully >> and and you you diagnosing her or

internet diagnosing her, you putting things on her like none of that helps.

>> All right. All right. I get you. The greatest gift you could give her is you and your wife live such peaceful, financially responsible, um, safe lives. And not safe in the you

don't take risks and venture, but safe like y'all are a home base for each other. That is going to be a a your mom

may say, "I want what y'all have,

>> and probably she won't." >> And I'm going to ask a question of John Lee on your behalf. Okay.

Uh John, I I'm I'm wondering if he

doesn't need to shift from help mode, worry mode, and it's understandable.

He's a good man. Of course, he's a good >> I'd be worried about my mom in the >> I wonder if he doesn't now need to move to grieving mode and just accept the reality. >> Yeah. There there is a all of the internet diagnostics, all of the she's got this and she's struggling with this and she needs to do this. All of that is may have some some drops of

truth in it, but that's a way from for you to distract yourself from grief.

>> Yeah, >> this stinks. >> My mom is in a bad situation. She's been in a bad situation for a long long time and she's been an adult for a long long time and she's continued in some of these patterns and now she's got a big huge mess and she refuses my help.

That's heartbreaking and I'm going to spend some time being sad. >> Yeah. >> Gotcha. And Lee on the back side of that is what can I do? I can pray for her if

I think that's a thing. I can love her.

That's a thing. And I can advise her as John said, if she comes and asks for

advice other than that, my friend, there's nothing you can do. And and uh that's why I asked John that question because it's going to get you to the mental and emotional place that you need to be to where this doesn't drive you bananas. Is that is that fair?

>> 100%. I I think grief grie grief is simply the gap between what you wanted and what actually is reality truth

>> and man spend some time in that gap and it's and it's heartbreaking. We don't have good cultural models for >> just being sad, just being heartbroken, being uh being in deep grief for a while and then we're going to go do the next right thing for us and our family tree.

Let's go to Scott now in Fort Worth, Texas. Scott, how can we help?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um >> I guess pretty quick question. I I have a rental property. It's my last piece of debt. Um planning on selling in about a year and a half. And I'm trying to decide if it's wiser to pay it off. Um or maybe if I have that money to pay it off, take it in, invest it, um and just kind of pay the mortgage until I'm ready to sell it, which is probably about next summer, basically the summer of 2027.

>> Why don't you just sell it now?

>> I have tenants in it and I thought maybe I'd honor the lease I have for them and they have about a year and six months.

>> Can you just still sell it? I mean, man, if somebody's trying to buy a rental property, how cool would it be for them to buy a place with at least of a year already signed up?

>> That's good. That's what I thought. I mentioned it to the real estate agent. They told me that usually investors usually looking for a really good deal and tend to sell the property for less in value, but I don't know if that's accurate. That's just kind of what >> Give us some real numbers really fast.

What What do you What would you stand to make on it?

>> Um, I probably I probably have a 100,000 in equity in it. It's 125 payoff and I

have a CD coming uh mature within the next month that would cover that.

>> And it's your only debt.

>> It's my only debt. >> Why do you want to sell it? You are you tired of being a landlord?

>> Um we just had a lot of life changes and I just you know focus has changed and just not I don't know just maybe waiting for an older home for something to happen and having to dump more money into it. I figured now maybe within the next year or two it probably a good time for us to sell. Uh, now based on what little bit I know, I would lean that direction. But I'm a guy that I I I kind of go big and momentum.

Uh, but I think there's a case that I think John is leaning into here to go, do I hold on to it? Given your financial position, what would you do with the windfall that you would make? What are what are you thinking?

um with the 100,000 I thought I'd combine. I mean I have two JH kids that are fixing um possibly to go to school and looking to kind of invest in them a little bit with a portion of it. Um they realize that we're not paying completely for school and so it's something that be partially used for them and maybe partially used uh a few things to do for our primary home and then whatever's left just making sure um maybe a little traditional IRA or something like that.

>> When would you pay the house off if you were not to sell it? What's your payoff date?

>> Uh, if I wasn't to sell it, my payoff date um would be >> probably by the end of this month >> to pay it off. I don't think you're understanding what I'm asking. I'm talking about >> Yeah, he's about to have a CD mature. >> Well, the CD That's right. You know what? That's right. So, you would pay it off. >> What do you think, John? This is interesting, >> Scott. I >> So, basically, I have an emergency fund that covers about expenses.

>> Here's what I would do. I would I would get a second opinion. I would go to ramsysolutions.com and check out the real estate pros in your area. And this isn't a sales pitch. This is exactly what I would do if I'm in your situation. I would call um a real estate

pro and say, "Hey, here's my situation.

>> I I I'm of the opinion that when your spirit leaves something, your body needs to leave it, too. You already want to sell this house. I would sell your house in the next 30 or 60 days and um either

have a hard conversation with your tenants or sell it to somebody who will honor their year lease.

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Brandon is up next in San Antonio, Texas. Brandon, how can we help you?

>> Hi, how are you gentlemen doing today?

>> Good. How are you, sir?

>> I'm very blessed. Um, thank you for taking my call. I just had a brief question for you guys. I recently transferred over here to San Antonio.

I'm a US Army nurse and throughout my

career, I've had multiple conversations about finances with other soldiers. And

some good, some have been bad. But when people ask me about what I follow and what I do, I always point them to Ramsey Solutions. And there's this consistent

um negative mindset among a lot of soldiers that I've met regarding Ramsey Solutions. And the primary reason has always been how Ramsay Solutions views

debt as evil. And so, you know, the military promotes a lot of things that put you into debt. The government uh travel charge card. They try to get you on the AX Platinum card. They tell you about all the different loans and mortgages you can get being a service member. And I guess my question is, how

as the average Joe can I talk to my

fellow soldiers about why putting yourself in debt is wrong, regardless of

how sweet the deal looks.

>> Man, your heart is awesome, brother.

>> Very good, my friend.

>> Um Ken, what do you think, Ken? Well, the reason I'm p it's there's an old phrase is when the student is ready, the teacher appears. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to simplify it to that,

but that was my first response. It's and John said this in a call earlier today talking to this guy about his mom. How do I advise my mom? And I thought what John said is great and I'll borrow it.

You know, it's I think the best thing you can do for your fellow soldiers is actually live with financial peace and in a way that is humble. you know, you're not walking around talking about how much you have in your emergency fund and stuff like that. Uh but but just live it. Uh I I there's a there's an old

phrase in the church world which makes me roll my eyes, but it it's applicable here, John, and I think it's lifestyle evangelism. In other words, >> you know, just live in such a way that people go, "Hey, you know what? You you when we talk about all this, like you never say anything." >> Yeah. >> And you kind of have some peace on your face.

What's your deal? And then you go, "Oh, well, so I just don't believe in debt. >> I don't borrow money." >> And here's why. I I think that's probably best in the barracks.

Sorry for the alliteration.

really do. I think that's there. Uh because institutionally, you're right.

You described what's happening. They're up against that. Um if if someone does say I want to know more and they're having a hard time with the debt is bad thing um I think you have to uh reframe it and

there's a simple little construct that I like to use and that is define the problem reveal the solution give the

reason for the solution and so the problem is not debt when you talk to somebody who thinks debt is normal the problem is the emotion and the stress and the lack of margin and all the other things, right? So, you can personalize the problem by asking them how how stressed out are you about? What does your debt do to you? Like ask questions.

I like to be an asker, not a teller. Uh that's what hit me first. All in the framework of uh live it and then be able

to explain it. Well, John, what what are your thoughts, >> Brandon? So, in 2008 or nine, I was I I

hung out with a bunch of super nerds.

Okay. And there was this new thing that came out called the ketogenic diet.

>> And bro, I turned in to the most

annoying diet zealot you could ever imagine.

>> I ruined I ruined Oh gosh. Can't like

Brandon, I ruined every dinner party. No matter where we were, I somehow shifted the conversation to let me give you my thoughts on a highfat, no carb diet.

Okay? I mean that I dude I was obsessive

and um and instead of convincing people

stopped wanting to hang around me >> because they were like whatever this guy's selling he's so annoying about it.

I don't want that in my life.

>> And now I have a new rule and I've had

to develop this rule since I took this new job but it served me well in my relationships outside of work. And that is I only answer questions that I'm asked.

And like Ken said, I like my life to speak the like speak for me first.

>> And so I want people to come up. I I could walk into every dinner. I I'm working on a marriage project right now. I could walk into every dinner and be like, you know what would fix y'all's marriage and would fix your marriage.

And they would all be like, get, dude, get away from me. But if I make sure I

put in the work every day to have the best marriage possible and my wife does too, then people are like, "Dude, what are y'all doing? How are y'all Why do y'all still like each other after this many years?" Right? And I Here's the

thing. Ken Ken nailed it. You're not going to solve an emotional answer with a data point. You're just not. I mean, look at our country for God's sakes, right? I mean, you you can be like, "Hey, here's the temperature." And people are like, "No, it's not. Here

is the Here's the color of the sky,

>> traitor. No, you're not. You know what I mean? Like, you're not on our side anymore. And so the everything is emotion. And so I love Ken's like, "Bro, do you have peace?" Cuz I drive an old car instead of a jacked up Jeep that I borrowed for $50,000 and it's depreciating every second I own it. I just have an old pickup truck, dude. And I don't mind if it gets dents. I I laugh in the in the in the shopping cart. I mean, the shopping parking lot when somebody dings it. Like, I have peace.

You don't have that. That's why I don't borrow money, man. And and if you want to do the nerd stuff and go down depreciation schedules and all that, you can do that. But that's almost always not the issue.

>> But hey, thanks for your service and thanks for your heart. John nailed it. You're just a great American all the way around. And and by the way, you'll have the opportunity >> you'll have the opportunity to speak into people's lives, but you got to earn that.

And uh and John nailed that.

found resonate with people are when I say I saw for peace, not for arbitrage.

And like I want I I call it a sleep tax.

I I paid off my 3.2% mortgage or whatever it was because um I could have

invested it. I could have tried to make the gap. I could have done all that because I put my head on my pillow every night knowing nobody can take my house away. That's I paid a sleep tax. And the other word is freedom. Nobody owns my family. No bank, no car dealership, no nothing. So, the words peace and the words freedom, um, those two words seem

to resonate when people are actually asking why do you avoid debt?

>> That's good. Let's go to Mark now. Mark is in Minneapolis. How can we help?

>> Yes. Um, I'm wondering if I I know you

strongly recommend term life insurance

>> and we're on baby step seven and um I

just want to know if it's necessary.

Yeah. Let's run through the numbers real quick. How old are you?

>> 51. >> Okay. And what's your net worth?

>> Uh 300.

>> Okay. And do you have any term life right now?

>> No. And and we don't have any debt.

>> Okay. Yeah, you definitely need term.

So, the reason I was asking you those questions is because sometimes people are self-insured in baby step seven. And the way to kind of react to this is, okay, if you were to die today, would your family be okay financially?

>> Well, they would still have to work, but

>> Well, what would they have?

What would they have upon your death?

What would they have?

>> They would have 300, >> right? And who's they?

>> How old? Who are they? >> Uh, just just my wife.

>> Okay. Is she working now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. is the and so the house is paid for all the things. So, I mean, I personally would want more, you know? I mean, we have a we have a basic fundamental. It's 10x your income, right? Um >> Uhhuh. >> And so, what's your income?

>> 50,000.

>> So, 500,000. I mean, here's what I would do. I'd call our friends at Xander Insurance. Yes, you need term. I think you need term%. Yes, you do. You don't have enough. Um and and so at a minimum,

your $500,000 policy so that your wife

would get that upon your death. I think that's a minimum, but call our friends at Xanderander.com uh and get their recommendation. Get get a quote. Uh you won't believe how affordable it is, Mark. And the return on this is low cost and big time peace.

John, give you a final word on this.

>> Yeah, dude. I You definitely definitely need it. I want my wife when I die to get to decide what she wants to do next, not have to go do a thing. >> That's right.

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It's the most awful time of the year, folks. It's tax season. That's right.

Christmas is gone. That's the most wonderful time of the year. John, >> mine are done, baby. >> Good. >> Done. Good for you. Well, for those of you that haven't done it yet, if you want to get some free checklist and guides that'll help you file, go to ramseyssolutions.com/taxes.

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Uh, pretty simple stuff there. If you have a simple situation that'll help you. Donna is up next in St. Louis.

Donna, how can we help?

>> Hi, nice to talk to you both. I have a question about retirement.

>> Okay, >> so I think we're headed in the right direction. are doing pretty well, but I was wondering why you'd recommend 15% to be saved off your gross income.

>> Ahu. Okay. Tell us where you are in the moment. What what's your situation?

>> Sure. >> Sure. 47 and my husband's 54. He is

completely disabled, so he he won't be working from today into retirement. And then I currently we have $748,000 in

retirement, $75,000 in savings. Our

house is paid for, no debt whatsoever.

>> Okay. >> And then I'm I'm kind of lazy. I save 20% to cover his income from disability and mine together in my employee sponsored 401k.

>> Okay. You think that's lazy?

>> It's lazy that I don't open up other accounts. I do it the just put the money in. I don't ever see the money and have it taken out each paycheck >> for both of us. And >> I don't think that's lazy. I think you're you're incredibly disciplined.

So, what's at the root of this question?

I understood your question, but what's the question behind why do I need to save 15% when you're already saving 20?

>> I'm very bad at spending money.

>> Okay. >> So, it's good to have bumpers in place so that I can plan accordingly and know where to spend

at and know when I retire that I, you know, I'll have about this much money and I can take out about this much. I just wondering the logic of the 15%. So, I have bumpers. Oh, >> so to speak. >> Well, again, I I I appreciate that, but I'm not hearing somebody who So, somebody who loves to spend so much and you're selfaware and you're kind of beating yourself up a little bit. You've done a darn good job. >> Oh, no, no, no. I don't like to spend.

I'm horrible at spending.

>> Oh. Oh, I misunderstood. You won't spend any money with money in my bank than I

would a new pair of shoes or >> I misunderstood. All right, I'm gonna bring in the good doctor over here who's been uh pursing his lips, furrowing his brow. >> I think you're awesome, Donna. >> I do, too. >> Oh, thank you. >> But why 15%? I mean, you can answer.

>> 15% is is is

a it's a number that will get most people to a comfortable retirement that does not take away the ability to live and enjoy their life while they're have while they have it. Mhm.

>> So if you retire with if you put away 7%

10% every month, you're going to find yourself not taking advantage of the full capacity of compound growth over time. So that you're and again you are thinking about future you. So when there

comes a day and your care of your husband's going to going to go up, it's going to be more become more difficult and more timeconuming. You have put in them a good amount of money that's going to keep you all comfortable and safe there when you're no longer able to work. And conversely, if you save 50% of

your income every day, you're going to end up with a ton of money and you're going to sit there at 70 on your on your on your front porch and realized, "Oh, my knees don't work. I can't go skiing now.

I can't I I can't do the things that I

could have done when I was younger." So, 15% gives you a number. That's That is

It's a stretch for some people. For you, it sounds like Is it sounds like it's not enough for you?

Uh I do 20 just to cover my husband's disability kind of so it's our whole gross >> but >> and do you pleasure from saving?

>> Are you saving out of a

out of out of a out of a scarcity mindset out of a compulsion or you have a husband with with unique needs right now and so you just see you know what this makes me feel safer today. I have no problem not doing X, Y, or Z because I really want to make sure we're good on the back end.

>> I would say some of both. I wouldn't call it a compulsion to save, >> but I definitely know that he's a little older than me. He does he is disabled.

It's going to cost a little bit. And I don't have children, so I want to make sure I have things in place that I can be taken care of. And I always say taken care of well, but they also, you know, they get to enjoy themselves as well while they're taking care of me. What is your income?

>> Sure. Our gross income is 135,000.

>> How much of that is you?

>> Uh he makes about 28,000.

>> Yeah. So after all expenses paid and

everything, how much margin do you have at the end of most months?

>> I can live on a shoestring.

No car payment. So we if we had to, we could live on his disability. >> No, no, you didn't answer my question.

>> You didn't answer my question. much margin. >> I I want a real number. I'm not holding you to it. I'm going somewhere with this. On an average month, >> how much extra cash do you have at your disposal? >> And cuz you know where I'm going.

>> Not what you can do.

>> That's right. >> I've done backpacking hunts out in the middle of the woods in the wilderness for days. I can do that.

>> How much cash? >> That's not sustainable. >> How much cash do you have left over?

So, I would say between three and $4,000

depending if my critter is getting a scuffle or something.

>> Okay, I get it. And the reason I'm asking is John said something that made me ask that question >> and I think uh whether you keep it to 20%, not going to argue about that. Or

you drop it to 15. John just said something I think is really smart. You need to take some of that, let's call it 3,000 >> and do something fun. Just live.

You're an incredible wife.

>> I know it is. Why? Because you just worth it. Is that what it is?

>> I'm sorry. What' you say? >> You don't think you're worth it?

>> I never think things are worth the cost, if that makes sense. I'm like, eh, I could stay at home. It doesn't make a difference. We are getting a new bathroom, so I am >> Oh, come on. That's where you That's where you go. Number one. Number two.

Like, what brings you home?

>> Women like a bathroom. No. What is fun?

>> I like walking my dog and hanging outside. >> Bad answer. Come on. >> Bad answer. >> No. No. No. No. Let me ask it this way.

>> Sure. >> What is something you have thought about doing recently and you went to your default answer you just shared with all of us, which is I don't think it's worth spending money on that. Give me a real answer.

>> For myself, I don't. But my husband, he always wants to get, you know, a new this or a new that. I'm like, "Yeah, we don't need it." >> All right, here's your hook. >> John's reading your mail. No, I'm not letting her off the hook. John's reading your mail. >> I think she's coping out by saying, "I don't think it's worth it. I think you're on to something. Dig a little bit." Yeah, I know he is. You have. So

does the audience, by the way. They're shaking their head in the lobby.

>> Listen, Donna. Um >> I I can only I could talk to you for an hour and we don't have that kind of time. I want you to I want you to tattoo what I'm about to tell you right in the middle of your soul. Okay?

You're worth you're worth laughter.

You're worth having fun.

You you have a very hard life. You're taking care of somebody as a primary caregiver and you work in a job where you make six figures. >> Mhm. >> That is not a punishment that you quote unquote deserve.

That is a role you have nobly and honorably stepped into and we celebrate you. And you're worth laughter. You're

worth joy. you're worth having fun even if you roll your eyes and think that wasn't worth that money.

And so your homework assignment is where's a place you want to go visit?

Where is a place that you want to take two of your girlfriends or your sister or your husband or what and that we want

to go and it's going to be obnoxious and it's going to be expensive and we are going to have a story to tell on our front porch one day when we're rocking in our rocking chairs.

Do you hear what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, I have one in mind, but I say I'm not What is it? What is it? What is it? Say it. Rip it. Rip it. I'm not die until I see Fiji. Like, I can't die until I see Fiji.

>> But you're You have $3,000 in margin every month and you're in great financial shape. >> How old are you? >> Save up. Like John said, what's a what's a cost of a trip to Fiji? Run the numbers on it and save up a little bit, but book the trip as soon as you get it.

But I think you need to start. I think you need to crawl before you walk.

>> Donna, when was the last time you did an entire spa day at a really high-end spa?

>> I don't do things like that. >> Okay. You do today. Today. You book it.

You book it today. >> It's going to change your life. By the way, >> don't go to Fiji when you're 70 and you can't go snorkeling and you can't run on the beach. Go when you're 40 freaking seven. You can afford it and you've worked hard.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. The phone number to jump in today is8825

5225. Tori is up next in Dallas, Texas.

Tori, how can we help?

>> Hey there. Um, so I'm just calling for

some advice. Um, so me and my husband

bought a house in early 2024.

We were both working. Everything was going great and then come 2025, we both

lost our jobs within about 3 months of

each other. Um, we honestly had no

savings. Um, we didn't realize how much

cost goes into buying a house and all the things we would need to purchase for our house. So, we completely ran through all of our savings doing that. Um when

we lost both of our jobs, we had, you

know, the house payment, we have bills, and then we also had purchased jet skis a few months before this happened. So we had that monthly payment along with the car insurance and his truck note. Um so

we ended up, you know, essentially living off of our credit cards, the mortgage company. I tried to get our mortgage lowered. I was getting unemployment at the time. he was not eligible for unemployment.

Um, this helped a little bit, but we did fall behind on the mortgage. I asked them for a lower mortgage. They made us enter a forbearance before they lowered

everything. So, we did that. And now I'm

working again. He is currently not working just because we do have a 1 and

1/2year-old. So, we would have to put her in daycare, which would basically be my entire paycheck. And he is planning

to leave for the military. We just don't

know when. So, right now, we sold his

truck to get rid of that in the insurance payment. But even with doing that, we're still not making ends meet.

The credit cards are getting way past due, and we also have to pay back what

was past due on the house. So, I I don't

even know where to start with everything or how to catch up.

>> Well, first things first, we got to fix the income situation. And I'm hearing really good, logical excuses, but

they're excuses. Okay, we got a one and a halfyear-old, so my husband can't work.

Daycare is too expensive. I get it. And by the way, that's all real. I'm not minimizing it, but I'm hearing logical reasons as to why we aren't working like crazy because we have an income problem.

Uh, so let's just get specific about that first and then we'll dive into how do we climb out of this. Did you replace

your income or are you are you making less? Are you making more? What is your income situation today versus where it was before you lost the job?

>> So I'm making the same amount that I was making before, >> which is how much?

>> Um, I bring in probably about 2500 a month. >> Doing what?

So, I actually work um I do billing

>> for just a small business or big corporation. Okay. >> For a small business. Um medical.

>> Okay. Uh and what did your husband do and what was he making?

>> So, he was a manager for logistics and

he was making more than me, probably about 3,000.

>> Okay. So, neither one of you were in highpaying jobs and yet we were buying toys. I just want to call that out. Do you understand what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and when give us more on this military thing that was just as fuzzy as it could be. What do we know?

>> So, he's enlisted in the military. Um,

we do have to wait, you know, to find out when he goes to basic.

Um, it's sort of a waiting game with him. >> Do we have a range? >> Really? >> I'm sorry, what was that? >> Do we have a range? In other words, is the what what branch is he in?

>> Um, so he's going into the army.

>> Going into the army. And so the army hasn't told him. It might be three months, it might be six months. Is it just open-ended? We have no idea. Sit by the phone.

>> Yeah, as of right now, it's basically sit and wait.

>> Okay. And we have no one that can watch your child that is not a professional uh daycare situation.

>> No. Um, she actually used to stay with a family member who decided to go back to work. Okay. And could he work on the hours when you're at home?

>> Yes. So, he has been doing part-time

delivery? >> No. No. No. The maximum amount of money.

If he can make $20 an hour scooping something in a warehouse somewhere, that's what he does until the army calls him. >> Three. Three jobs. >> Three jobs. If he's watching the baby during the day, then he you don't see him at night. He doesn't sleep. He works on the weekends. I mean that this is the kind of level of intensity I want you to understand. You need you need income.

And can I tell you something? You need to be figuring out in the days ahead. I love that you got back to where you were. But you aren't making enough either. >> Yes.

>> Okay. John, you want to walk through the debt situation? Well, how how they get out of it? >> I mean, y'all are in a position now where y'all have like you have to choose reality.

Reality is y'all are broke. And this is a scary scary place to find yourself, especially with a one and a halfyear-old, especially with a with a husband who's about to be gone for who knows how long and who knows where.

And if you're not honest, if you don't choose reality about how this is emotionally taxing you, how you'll have no peace, you'll have no freedom in your home, you're not going to have the emotional um to use Kin's word, juice.

You're not going to have the emotional energy to go do what has to be done in this moment. And what has to be done right now is both of y'all have to work maniacally to climb out of this thing.

Sell everything you have. Sell the jet skiis. And if you're upside down on the jet skis, which you probably are cuz those are insane depreciating assets, then um save up the gap and sell them

and go pay those stupid things off.

>> So I actually did let them I did let

them take the jet skis. They went to auction and they sold them

>> probably about 10 $111,000.

>> Good gosh. That's why we don't let things go to auction. >> Are you guys on a budget at all?

>> Um, so I have my pay paycheck.

>> No, the answer is no. Just tell me.

>> What What's your total debt load? If you if you had to write a check today and would clear you and your husband back to zero, what would that number be?

Um, it's probably about

15,000 including what is what was in the

forbearance. >> I'm going tell you something. That's the best news I've heard on this phone. >> That is such a manageable problem.

>> If you go crazy working and selling

everything and you got to get on a budget. Now, we're going to give you every dollar.

Okay? So, in a minute, I'm going to put you on hold and we're going to get you in every dollar for free. our gift. You have got to start knowing where every dollar is going because right now to John's point, you're broke. You have no wiggle room at all. But you guys have got to go make some money.

>> Okay. And >> 15 grand is a very overcomeable problem.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> Okay. I am getting a good amount back on my income taxes. >> How much? >> Um, a little over 10,000.

>> Okay, great. So, $1,000 goes immediately. Baby step one. Are you familiar with the baby steps?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Baby step one, $1,000. Done.

>> Then we take $9,000.

>> Every penny. Put it every penny.

>> That's right. And now we're down to $6,000 of debt, >> which he should be able to clear with three jobs in 30 freaking days.

>> Now with a budget, you just got a raise.

You take all that debt and what am I paying minimum per month? We just got that in a raise because we are budgeting now. And I want you to tell him with all

the compassion in your heart that Ken and I called out his fatherhood and his

husbandry.

He needs to get off his butt and go take care of his freaking family today.

>> For the record, since he's going into the army, it was just John that said that. Just John. I'm just over here.

>> He needs to go get after. He needs to serve your family as much as he's about to go serve this country.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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All right, let's go to De Mo, Iowa.

Becca is joining us there. Becca, how can we help?

>> So, my daughter is going on a trip in

June for my cousin's daughter's

Makea-Wish trip. Um, and we were

thinking it would be nice to go as a family with myself, my boyfriend, and my

two-year-old and just do it all together. And it would be roughly 5,000 at the max for us

three to go since my daughter is already

paid for.

>> Okay. >> So, I was just wondering if it would be worth it to go or not. Well, tell us the

reason that you're asking us. There's there's another part of the story. Why are you questioning whether or not this is a no-brainer?

>> Well, I stay home, so I don't have a steady income. We We are going to use

the money that we got back from our taxes to do it. So, we don't always just have that money, but we're working on it. >> Do you have debt? >> Um, the only debt we have is my car.

>> How much?

10. >> How much you getting back from taxes?

>> Um, he's getting 4,000 and I'm getting 4,000. So, 8,000 altogether.

>> And then tell me about your daughter.

>> She's nine. Um, she we've never been on

vacation, none of us. Uh, so this would

be she's going to go regardless if we go, but I just thought it would be nice to go as a family. So, who whose make a wish trip is it?

>> It's my cousin's daughter. She's had cancer and is in recovery, so they're

they're doing that. >> Okay. No, you shouldn't go.

>> Okay.

>> I'm watching. The reason I let the awkward silence is because uh there's a lady out in the lobby who's looking at me like I have no heart. Like there's a lump of coal in my chest. And I appreciate that. Um, and I understand I

think I know where her emotions coming from and I think I know where John's emotions coming from. And I understand the Makea-Wish thing is that's a really big deal. Maybe I I should ask what the severity of the situation is. But I just have a feel from you the way you're wording all of this that this isn't as big as maybe it sounds. And and so in

that case, you guys um I hate that you've never gone on a vacation.

um you know, but you guys don't have a lot of income. Uh you're not working. I I I think for that reason that that tax

um refund is going to go a long way to

getting out of that car payment. What's your car payment every month?

>> Um it's 150 every two weeks.

>> Yeah. So 300 a month. Okay. So what would 300 a month mean to your every every month income?

Um, I do I do photography on the side,

but it's not >> That's not what I asked you. What would a $300 a month insertion into your monthly budget mean to you guys?

>> Not much. I don't think

>> I maybe that should be your water bill and part of your light bill, right?

>> Yeah. That's not the answer I was expecting from someone who told me that, you know, uh, what is your husband's income?

He makes 58 a year.

>> That's not a lot of money. And you're not making any money. So, for that reason, I'm taking a hard line. I love that your daughter gets to go with her cousin, but do you need to go with the 2-year-old to the tune of 5,000 given you guys are broke?

And if the audience doesn't like it, I I just don't think it's a good move. John, disagree with me. >> I I have no problem, by the No, I

this isn't sitting right in your spirit.

I want to hear why it's not. >> Yeah, that's the other thing.

>> I just I'm always worried about money.

Always. Whether we have it or we don't.

>> Well, because you don't have it. >> Yeah. Your worry your worry is justified.

>> Yeah. >> And so whenever I'm worried or whenever I'm anxious about something, I want to first ask, is my body right?

And in this case, you and your is it

your boyfriend you said?

>> Yeah. >> And how many kids do you have?

>> I have two. We have one together.

>> Okay. And how old are they?

>> My daughter is nine and my son is two.

>> Okay. Um, can I be real real direct with you since we have short time?

>> Yeah. >> You as the live-in girlfriend are in a

very precarious position right now.

especially with no income.

And you feel that, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

Your body's right.

And so if you told me, "I have a super

stable situation. I have earning potential. I am married in a long-term marriage." And we are anchored in. And this niece that I've got cousins that I know really well. I've got cousins that I don't know at all.

this niece is like a daughter to me.

Then in that situation, I would say, "Dude, go. Just go." >> Yeah. >> I'm not getting that sense. I'm getting a sense of I'm I am a in a very fragile

position as the girlfriend of the chief bread winner. I don't have a lot of I don't have equal power at the table in my romantic relationship. I'm taking care of these kids.

Our money situation is very, very fragile. and I'm just sick and tired of it. And I'm gonna express my sick and

tired by not going to get a job, not demanding that, hey, we need to get married and we need to make this thing official so that we can both anchor into this thing together. I'm going to take that out by taking the trip I just deserve.

>> Yeah. >> And you're going to come back from a $5,000 trip exhausted. Your kids are going to be cooked. They're going to have fun because it's freaking Disney.

But you're going to come back and you're going to have taken 8,000 of those dollars and you know as well as I do that spending his tax return is going to come at a cost. You know that.

And you're going to come back having spent >> Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I think our our relationship is pretty good. We don't like consider this is my money and this is your money. All of our money is together. >> Well, you don't have any number one. And number two, you guys aren't married.

Again, it's a fragile position. Let me put it this way. If he if he decides he doesn't want to be your boyfriend anymore today, what happens?

>> I don't know. >> Okay. >> Exactly. >> There we go. So, and so I I I I am I am

heartbroken with you and I'm siding with Ken on this one because I feel like you're about to go spend five grand you don't have because you're just sick and tired of being stuck in a position >> that you have a lot of autonomy to actually change. But that aut that that

change is going to disrupt the the reg like the rhythm of your relationship.

It's going to disrupt the rhythm in your home. It's going to disrupt a lot of stuff. But on the other side of that disruption is potentially a whole lot of peace. >> And I want to dovetail off of that, Becca. Here's what I would prescribe for you is that you let the sadness

and some anger over not being able to do this trip fuel you. And why don't you

guys get married and let's commit and

let's pay this debt off really fast because you can. and let's get $300 extra a month going and let's keep walking the baby steps out and get an emergency fund and uh let's be patient

and wait five years and take both kids to Disney cuz I'm going to tell you something right now. The little one is how old?

>> Two. >> Two. Can I tell you something? Taking a 2-year-old to Disney is like hanging out on the seventh level of hell. It It's like setting money on fire. By the way, everybody in the lobby agrees with me.

You're going to think you're doing something great and you're going to go, "I wish I had paid the car off and saved myself the stress of dragging a 2-year-old around the happiest place on earth." The irony of that is just rich.

So, you know, this is a little bit of let me say no to something that would be good so I can say yes to the best scenario for my life going forward. And you are really close

to being debtree. Let's get boyfriend into a husband. Let's get husband a better job. And then we go to Disney and

we don't feel it. And that way when you're miserable, you just spend a little bit more money on ice cream. And then it all regulates.

>> I know that's not the answer you wanted, Becca, but that's just that's just your your brother's skin and John being honest with you today.

Heat.

Heat.

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Mark is up in Columbus, Ohio now. Mark, how can we help?

>> Hey, Ken and John. Thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk to you guys.

>> You, too. Uh I was laid off of my job after nearly 30 years at the same company uh not too long ago where I was making about 190k. Um now my wife and I

have kind of a different point of view of whether I can get another job doing whatever I want, just don't care what it makes or whether I need to make more money. Because the deal is I'm only 53

and I won't be able to touch our retirement stuff for another 6 and 1/2 years. And so we need to figure out what the next steps for us are. So our net worth is 3.5 million and we have about

699K in nonretirement accounts and I'm

my wife is convinced that I don't need to work to make a bunch of money and I'm kind of the one that worries about this stuff and so I need to figure out if I can do something for fun no matter what it makes or whether I need to go find another job making about 190k or so for the next six years. Okay, a couple quick questions. What were you doing?

>> Uh, I was working at a big tech company, education tech company. I was doing a user interface design. User experience design. >> Okay. How would you describe yourself as a professional?

>> Uh, user experience designer. User >> UX. Okay. Um, okay. So, next I want to

know because you're the guy that's in the weeds on the money. You're the guy that's worried. Your wife seems to feel really good about it. Um, how much money, let's forget what we're doing.

How much money if I could just hand it to you? I said, "All right, Mark, you're gonna make this for as many years as you feel comfortable. How much money would be enough?" And I'm talking gross salary.

>> Uh, well, we have different views, my wife and I, but >> I didn't ask what her view is. I want to know what your view is.

>> Uh, I feel like at this point, if I could make 50k a year, just enough to cover some of the expenses that it would be okay. >> Okay. And is she very in tune with what

you guys have? You guys do the numbers together. She's not just saying this from some emotional point of view.

>> No, she's very intrigued.

>> Well, is she right or is she wrong?

>> Well, history will tell you that she's generally right on these kind of things.

>> Well, no, wait a second. Is that is that is that husband code? Cuz that's what we're all supposed to say. Or is that a fact? She really does have a good grasp of the numbers. >> No, she really does have a good grasp of the numbers. All right, I'm gonna actually bring in my colleague here because after my quick little line of questioning um and your validation of

your wife's a knowledge of your financial situation and B, she's got a

good track record of giving good financial advice. Uh John, I think this is a lot of fear. Yeah. Okay. So, give me something you are anxious about that has nothing to do with money.

>> Oh gosh. Uh my girl's future.

>> Okay, keep going. Give me two more.

Um, my health long term. I'm in good health right now, but I've just seen too many people go downhill. >> Give me another thing.

>> And you said not this, but just running out of money. Just not having enough.

>> Okay. So, this is the pot recognizing

the kettle here. Okay. So, I'm talking to you. Forget like that there's millions of people listening to us. Just it's you and me sitting down having nachos. Okay.

>> Okay.

Almost every time somebody approaches me

with a desperate eitheror decision, that is a

sign that they struggle with anxiety in other places in their life.

You have boxed yourself into a do something for fun where I just don't make anything and we all starve to death because the apocalypse is going to come hit us at any time.

Never mind the fact that I'm a multi- multi-millionaire, that my health is good, that my wife loves me enough to stay connected to me and to challenge me when appropriate.

I am going to forecast a future potential problem. I'm going to drag it into the present and not even try to solve it. I'm going to worry about it.

Right? Or the other solution you've given yourself is I need to go find something that I don't love, I don't care about, that's going to drive me crazy, but I'm going to make 190 grand.

>> And you've boxed yourself into an eitheror and you spend most of your day toggling back and forth. That toggling, the nerd word, is rumination. You're just spinning up stories and trying to solve them and tell yourself why you can or can't, why you should and why you shouldn't. And rumination never solves anything. It just makes us feel like we're exerting energy to solve a to towards a problem. It keeps us busy, but we never go anywhere.

>> And so what what I want you to to ch to challenge you on is this a I'm going to send you a copy of building a non- anxious life. Okay? And this is the

assumption that what if your anxiety is right? What if the things you worry about is right? And let me make like be super clear. All of the money could go away. It could.

You have set your family up in a position that you are hedged against that happening better than almost anybody Ken and I will talk to in the next two months. You're a multi-millionaire in your early 50s.

Your health is really dang good. You take care of yourself. You're a good steward of your body. Could you have a heart attack tomorrow? Yep. But you've done the work to put yourself in a position to where that's that's statistically unlikely. And I could keep going on and on, but I'm going to give you that book because I want you I want you to work through it. The second thing I want you to do is I want you to reverse engineer the day you quote unquote retire.

What do you want that day to feel like?

>> I just want it to be confidence and relief, relaxing.

>> Okay. That is not going to be found in a data point because you have data points and they're not solving that problem for you. >> That's right. It's going to be solved in a life built well on the way and it's

going to be built with you going towards something. Why wouldn't why why not consider doing something that you love and that makes 80 grand, 110 grand?

>> Yeah. >> How many months have you been laid off?

>> Uh just over five.

>> Okay. So, I'm getting paid through June basically. >> That's what I was wondering. So, I'm going to throw something out. I actually want John's opinion on this. I was listening. and I've talked about this before. >> Yeah. I I would love for you to try your

wife's plan for three months. So when

June when that last severance check cashes, whatever that next month is, so

you don't have any income. So maybe it's July, who knows? But I want you to go three months without any income.

Three months. >> I know. And and John may disagree with me, but let me play this out. your wife is tuned in. Uh, go 60 days. I don't

care. It's not a magical formula I'm dropping here. But go enough time where you're where you're able to actually see what life is like with your wife's suggestion and do everything that John said, but force yourself to go, I'm going to take at least three months or two months and I'm not going to have any income and let's just see how we do.

>> What is life like? >> I'm going to add another thing to it.

I want you to spend those two months because here's the other thing I think you're missing. Um Ken and I have talked about this at length over the over the years. Getting laid off, your body experiences that as a death.

>> That's right. >> The loss, the grief attached to that loss is significant because somebody somewhere in a room said, "I don't want you or need you here anymore." >> Mhm. >> And that hurts, man.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> And it's existential. Who am I without this title? Who am I when I'm not this job? When I'm not in this role? Who am I going to be now? And is this going to could this happen again? The answer is yes. And you start spinning up stories and you get stuck. So in addition to pressure testing, is my wife right?

>> Also, I want you to begin to fill your

day up with things that you that bring you purpose. Who are you going to help?

So that's you not just sitting at home scanning the internet, watching news, or scrolling on your phone. That is you committing to I'm gonna volunteer for three different organizations in my community. I'm gonna take a class to get this other certification. You know what?

I hate coding. I hate it. I'm gonna say it out loud. I hate coding. I'm going to go fill in the blank and begin finding

doing not thinking about doing things.

Action or emotions often follow action.

Go do some things that bring you value and bring you purpose. And man, you're going to come out of this on the other side with a whole with a with a clear path to move forward.

Heat. Heat.

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>> All right, today's question comes from Chase in Indiana.

I Man, this starts out I mean, he doesn't mess around. I don't want to do it, but I'm about to divorce my wife due to financial infidelity. We have amazing kids and she is my rock, but she has a major spending problem. This is the second time she has gone into debt and kept me in the dark until the creditors come calling. I'm devastated and want to take the easy way out. But even if we get separated, she would still need financial help. I am 45 and she is 48.

Can you give me some Sorry, brother. Can you give me some guidance on how to help her re-engineer her mind about money and finance so she can be the amazing wife I

know she can be? Oh boy.

>> Except it's not about her mind, is it?

>> Yeah. You Man, what do you think, Ken?

Well, this is your lane. >> Yeah. >> Uh, but you got a lot of wisdom. >> I'm just playing one on TV at the moment. >> You got a lot of wisdom. >> Um, >> I'm going to say with everything in my being, fight the urge to divorce her. U, I

would just fight until there is absolutely no way you can fight. I don't think divorce is the answer. Uh, I think she's got some deep emotional problems and I think she needs some therapy. she needs her husband to sit with her and all of that. So, I would tell him, um,

financial infidelity, I get it. Um, but

with the kids, I just I've read too much about divorce. I know enough to get me in trouble, and I know enough to say that it's just never an option until

it's the only option.

>> Yeah. And and Chase, I

man, this is this has rocked your world.

And totally understand. You're looking at two husbands right here. If this happened a second time, I mean, it's it it's devastating, right?

>> Um, but I want you to begin to be very

honest. She is not your rock.

>> And when you keep saying she's this and she's this, but also this, it becomes destabilizing in your own mind. So, I want you to be honest about I don't trust my wife

and my wife has not shown that she is

willing to delay gratification to deal

with some of the demons that are haunting her that she's choosing to try to keep at bay with spending or with hiding or with secrets or whatever. And so, we're going to be very honest about our place in this marriage. We're going to choose reality when it comes to our marriage. What is the state of things?

the state of things is if we're really really honest. Almost never is somebody quote unquote a rock in every facet except they just go into crippling debt, creditors called and they hide it from us and they lie about it. That's almost never the case.

Occasionally it is, but almost never it is. Um, so we're going to be honest about the state of things and you're going to sit down with her and you're going to give her a roadmap to what reestablishing trust would look like.

and you're going to be honest about your the precariousness of your situation.

And so for a season, I would and can

push back on this. I would say I am going to open a checking account that is just for us and the kids.

>> I am going to ask you to to freeze your credit account and give me the code to it so that you cannot borrow money.

>> Um I am going to ask that because this is the only way I'm going to feel safe for the next 30, 60, 90 days. And then we're going to revisit it. and I'm going to ask that you go see somebody because you clearly are struggling with things way under the surface. And like this isn't about re-engineering her mind about money and finance.

This is that is just the that's the blinking red light over the problem. The problem is much deeper. And we're going to get to the root of where else is she not being fully honest with you? Where else is she not allowing herself to be seen and known?

Where else are you not a safe place for her to land? And so she feels like she has to kind of work around to you because you have your own opinions and your own judgments, etc. We're going to peel this thing all the way back to the bedrock here and we're going to be honest about the state of our marriage and then we're going to choose and both of you have to be in on this. We're going to rebuild this thing brick by brick to this thing that we want it to be.

And the beauty of it is if y'all have both chosen or one of y'all has chosen to blow the thing up, you both can choose to rebuild it. It's the same choice just on the different side of the ledger here. Um, but this is if you try to solve this with financial, with numbers, with spending habits, that's not the issue here yet. You'll get there, but that's not the problem here.

It's much deeper than that. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate the question, man. We're rooting for you.

>> Let's go now back to the phones.

Andrew, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going, gentlemen? Um, basically, uh, got some car debt, got some student loan debt. Um unex not really unexpected

baby on the way but we just got pregnant a lot sooner than I expected and just

curious if I sell the truck that I have get a beater and start pouring it into the student loan debt or just pay off the truck cuz it's newer.

>> When's the baby due?

>> Baby is due. So we're 12 weeks. Baby's due around end of September.

>> Okay. End of September. How much uh debt do you have? Walk us through the debt.

Um 50 grand in car loan, 100 grand in student loan, and then we have our house. >> Okay. So, we'll take the house off the table right now. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

>> Somewhat. >> Okay. So, uh the 50 grand in the car.

What's the car? What is it? It's a truck. And what's it worth if you were to private sell today?

>> Uh probably 60.

>> Yes. Yes. We sell that truck immediately. >> Sell it yesterday. Immediately.

>> Even if I can pay it off in two month two more months. >> Yeah. What do you make? >> Two more month. Whoa, you buried the lead. What do you make?

>> Um, so we pull in about 220 after taxes.

>> Okay. Well, that would have been nice to know. >> Yeah, lead with that next time. Hey, we're rich and we're having a baby and I'm I'm terrified. Lead with Lead with that next time. >> Yeah. Pay Yeah. Pay off the truck in two months. Yeah. >> Okay. >> And uh and then that leaves the 100K in student loans. Is that right?

>> That's right. >> Yeah. That one's going to take longer.

And so, you know, we we tell people it's okay to pause baby step two, which is paying off debt, smallest to largest, to save up money. You know, we're gonna get in stock mode, right? We stock cash just to make sure. And then, by the way, what we're doing here is is we want to look at what our deductible is, right?

>> And we want to make sure we got plenty of cash, that we don't have any surprises, uh, and and that we plan as well as we can for baby, right? and and then once baby's here uh then it's that massive

income knocking off the student loan.

All right. So that's baby the income reduces after baby cuz uh my wife is you

know she'll get her her little bit for baby leave. Um and she says she'll start

working again after x amount of months.

Um >> the way you just said that she will not >> Yeah. You don't believe her? >> No. She's going to stay home with baby and she's going to be like yeah I'm good. How much how much do you owe on your house? >> Uh 250. >> Okay. Uh so what what if she if she leaves the workforce for good? What's that going to reduce your household income? >> Um it's going to go down to about 185.

>> Yeah. And what what needs to happen for you to make more money?

>> Um I'm actually working on getting a raise. Um so that's that's in the works.

>> What would that take you to?

>> Um it could take us up back up to what we were making before. >> Great. So, the answer is um uh you don't

have to sell the truck, but what worries me is that you get off this call and then you talk yourself into keeping the truck. Um so, part of me wants to go

sell it, take your medicine, uh you know, and buy a $10,000 truck, you know, but you don't have >> I want to sell it, but the wife is like, "It's a good truck. It's newer. It's got a great warranty." She's the one trying to do now, John.

>> I'm like, "I'll I'll I don't care. Give me a Corolla. She She's right and you're

right. Okay. So, the the bigger issue to

me is y'all make 220 after taxes. Y'all have nine months.

>> Yes. >> Could And you your house payment's only two a $250,000 house.

>> Uh yeah. Okay.

>> Maybe. Yeah. I maybe I owe a little living in it for about a year now. >> This is going to sound crazy. This is going to sound nuts.

Is there any possible way y'all could squeeze out and just live on a hundred grand this year since you have no other expenses? >> Absolutely. Yeah, >> of course you could. You could live off 75. If y'all will just suck it up for one calendar year, you will pay off your student loans and the dumb truck. >> And for that reason, I'd sell the truck.

>> Yeah, I would too. >> I'd buy a $10,000 truck and you're going to save all this cash that you would be putting towards the 50,000. I want to hold that cash and put it to the loan.

>> Buy Yeah. pay our student loans off and tell your wife, "Hey babe, appreciate it. Love you, but uh I don't need to drive this truck." That's what I would do. And then save up and buy a truck after the baby's born.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside John Deloney, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thrilled that you're with us. The phone number is 888255225.

Kate is up now in Oklahoma City. Kate,

how can we help?

>> Hi guys. Um, I would just like to know how I should go about a conversation with my dad asking him to get another job because he's been asking me and my brother for money for like bills and groceries. >> What? How long has this been going on?

>> Oh, years. I mean, >> how old is he? >> Um, he is 62.

>> Okay. And is he on his own?

No, my mom is still around. She was a

caretaker for my grandma, but she recently passed away, so she is unemployed right now.

>> Okay. And how much money are we talking

about in how many years? Uh, well, let me let me ask I'm sorry. Let me ask it differently. On the average ask, how much money is he asking you and your brother for at a time?

>> Um, it really varies anywhere from like 20 bucks to a couple thousand. Okay. I I

just am trying to get a range for, you know, how big of a problem he's got going on. And And uh you said years, how many years?

>> Yeah. So, um we had a family business for a long time and we would work um I've been working since I was like nine.

So, kind of since then. So, 10 years.

>> He's been asking you and your brother for money for 10 years to help pay his bills.

>> Yes. >> And you've been giving it to him the entire time?

Yes. >> All right. That All right. I got to bring in the good doctor here.

>> I mean, >> I set the table and now you get to clean it. I Wow. We got some deep-seated issues going on here, John. >> Yeah. You you you you asked for two things and you can only control one of them. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And so, the only thing you can control here is is um no thank you

or thanks for asking. I'm not in a position to give right now.

>> Or if you want to be if you if you're ready to draw a forever boundary,

um I'm not going to be able to give you or I'm going to choose not to give you money anymore. And the more honest you can be there, the better. Do you still work in the family business with him?

>> Um no, it we had to sell it. He's in

quite a bit of debt, so we had to >> Gotcha. Okay. you you can't recommend he get a new job because he doesn't think he needs one cuz he doesn't. He has two kids that he's been leeching off of for years.

>> He's going to have to come to that on his own.

>> And >> yeah, >> I just want to tell you I'm I'm as a dad

of a daughter sitting next to another dad of of another daughter,

I want to tell you I'm sorry because no dad should put his daughter in this position.

>> Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, >> you've been carrying him for a long time and that was never your job.

>> What's going to happen when you do what John tells you to do? How's dad going to react? >> I can tell you he's going to react like a child, right?

>> Yeah. I I don't know exactly. He definitely asks more from my brother.

But, um, >> is your brother fed up with this, too?

>> He's definitely more lenient on it. He's kind of like, well, mom and dad need money, so I'm going to give it to See, John, that's another dynamic cuz we're giving Kate this advice. Kate's calling us. >> Yeah. >> But if brother's going to continue to help, this is never going to get any better. So, even more so, Kate, do you do what John tells you? >> And you're going to be isolated even more.

>> Yeah. And the reason I'm bringing that up with John next to me is because I I think you need to be prepared for dad.

>> You said you don't know what he's going to do. He's not going to react in a good way. And now he's going to put more pressure on your brother. and brother may come to you and go, "What are you doing?" I guess, John, I wanted to be prepared for the worst case scenario so that we protect Kate.

>> I I mean, I think Kate's going to have to make some choices about do you have community? Do you have people you can count on? Do you have someone you can talk to because this is going to be an isolating, rocky storm to to weather,

>> right? I'm actually um moving out um in

April. >> Good. and and the faster you can establish yourself on your own two feet um somewhere else where you've got some more autonomy, then this will definitely reduce.

>> Okay? >> But it it will be incredibly uncomfortable, disheartening, heartbreaking. And so I'll say it this way. If it takes you

um giving him money to preserve the relationship, the relationship you want to be there does not exist.

Yeah, >> it's a it's a predatory relationship.

You owe me. I'm your dad. >> I think I keep giving them money because I just feel bad they don't have money for bills and I don't want them to.

>> That's right. >> You know. >> Okay. Um I want to walk you through something that I learned from my my buddy uh Becky Kennedy. She's a psychologist in New York. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Um I I would have told you in the past

like you're feeling guilty, right? and she she changed the way I think about guilt.

>> She said, "Guilt is a good feeling that

your body experiences when you violate your own values." >> Right?

>> Guilt is not the feeling you get when

you do something that is in alignment with your values and somebody else is uncomfortable or mad or pissed off at what you just did and you try to grab their feelings and manage them for them.

And so, is it a violation of your values

to take care of yourself, to make sure you're on your own two feet, and to stop funding your dad's behavior?

>> Yeah. No, I I definitely need to. I'm I'm definitely ready to move out.

>> Okay. So, when he comes at you full storm, when your brother comes at you full storm, make a commitment to yourself. By the way, you you you don't just declare this like Michael Scott, like I declare bankruptcy. This is hard and it's painful and it takes years.

Okay? But make the commitment to yourself. I am not going to try to manage y'all's anger, your frustration, your demands, your coercion. I'm not going to try to manage that. I'm going to be in control of me and I'm going to be compassionate, respectful, honorable.

I'm going to always tell the truth. I'm going to be a person of integrity and I'm going to do what I can do. And in this season, I don't have that kind of money to continue to support you in that way.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> And that's hard. And that's like Ken's right, man. That that is painful.

Painful.

>> Where's mom at in this? >> Yeah. Where is she?

>> So, um, my mom So, I'm actually moving

and the job I have now, um, she's going to take it over, but it's not going to be for a month. >> Okay. >> What What What is she going to make?

Um 20 oh after taxes it's going to be

about 600 a week. >> Okay. And is does mom where's mom at

with the way dad is putting the pressure on you and your brother? Is mom just this silent who just lets him do whatever? I mean what's the deal?

>> She um she definitely feels really bad about it. She she cries to me a lot about it because

she's in a really tough position of >> I know she is and because we have such limited time I'm I'm digging here. John, what can she do to encourage mom to try

to step in here?

>> I I I again I don't know that she can get mom to do anything. I agree. She can say, "Hey, mom, I just want to let you know um as I'm moving out here, I need

to establish my finances, my emergency fund. I need to pay off my debts that I have and I need to establish myself and so I am not going to continue to give y'all money for the next season. And I know that's going to make dad mad. You and I have talked and I know this whole thing has always made you uncomfortable anyway.

I just want you to know I'm going to have this conversation with dad when he calls. And maybe your mom will say, "Bless you for having the strength that I wasn't able to exert over the years because I've been in this other pressure cooker." Or maybe she'll get mad at you, too. Who knows?

But I would have that level of cander and that level of directness and make it as short as possible.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? working your whole life and never having anything to show for it, never having the long-term gain, just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget. so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

All right. So, uh, we we get a lot of questions, a lot of calls where we're inevitably saying you need more income, right? Yes. Every dollar and getting control of your money, knowing where it's going, uh, is huge, but most of the

time, uh, if if you're struggling, it's

not just your expenses, it is also your income. And, uh, the reality is is that

we've had a very popular article. It's called 14 best work from home jobs you can apply for today. And this is all about increasing your income, right? I need more. I'm in gazelle intensity and I got to bring some some more money in.

And again, I'm not going to read this word for word. Uh you can click the link in the show notes to to get this. But you're looking at things like virtual assistant is on the list, right? A tutor, customer service, where again,

I'm working at home, which means you can wear those sweats, you know? Hey, and

and and and you got a laptop, whatever.

Um graphic design, accounting, bookkeeper, teaching, uh video editing, things of that nature. That's just a few of of the list. And again, go to the show notes and get it. Uh this is a very popular article at ramseysolutions.com.

14 best work from home jobs you can apply for today. So, um, the point is is that where there's a will, there's a way. And we're actually giving you a list of some very specific things to be

looking at that don't require a lot of ramp up time, but can provide real money

so that you can get out of debt. So, go check it out. Link in the show notes.

Josh is up next in Jackson, Mississippi.

Josh, how can we help?

>> Hey, man. Uh, I was just wondering. I'm getting married in a month and I'm just

Thank you. Um, super excited about it.

Really excited to not have to pay for this wedding anymore.

>> Um, >> and just basically me and my fiance. Um,

we have what y'all would call bad debt, about $12,000 in credit cards. Um, most

of that went towards, you know, paying for the wedding and then we mostly cash flowed it. Uh, I don't have a car note.

My fiance has, I think, $20,000

uh, left on her car and completed baby

step one so far. just trying to figure

out a how to navigate

the marriage finances and just overall building, you know, something with that.

And then my fiance wants to

move like we want to move to Alabama and

she wants to open a nutrition tea

business. >> A nutrition what?

>> Tea like the uh fit te's.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. I think it's a horrible idea.

>> Um, and let me explain. Uh, not necessarily the business prospect.

So, I I'm have a little bit of fun. Uh, I want to do a little misdirection.

It's not that her business idea. I don't know anything about fitness tea. Okay.

What I am saying is a bad idea is for us to get married and we're going to start

a business when we're trying to start a life. >> Um, I >> I got some red flags. Now, if you can give me some facts as to why it might be

a great idea. >> I think it's not a good idea for other reasons, but go ahead. >> Oh, great. No, add it real quick.

>> Oh, hold on. I want to get John's take a good idea at all. >> Why is it Give me your take on why it's a bad idea. >> Here's why, brother. You are painting a picture of two people in a month who are about to join like about to anchor into

into concrete together and say, "Till death does us part." and y'all are not

aligned on how y'all spend money, how y'all earn money, the the commitment it takes when

she's trying to get a business off the ground, how you're going to carry the load at home. This is going to be a 9010 marriage for a while. And that's awesome in seasons when y'all are both in on that and how y'all going to come out of like y'all have to get your values aligned ASAP, >> which is by the way what I what I was saying. You're trying to start a life and the first year of marriage is the hardest year in my opinion because you're taking two individual lives, environments that you're bringing in and and John said it way better than me.

I'm in complete agreement, but that's why this is a bad idea, not her actual business idea. >> So, here's what this looks like in re in real time, brother. This is y'all sitting down and saying, as a married couple, how do we value >> work? How do we like what are our values around how we're going to spend money?

How we're going to save money? Is one of y'all's core values together? We will never be owned by a bank, by a car dealership, by a government entity when it comes to debt. Cool.

We're going to we're going to we're going to anchor into that one. And that's going to decide how quickly y'all pay off your debts. That's going to decide how quick how small your wedding is rel relative to how big y'all actually wanted it to be. it it's going to decide, okay, we're going to start this tea business, but we're gonna wait three years because we're going to start it with cash.

We're not going to start it with an SBA loan and put that on top of the car payments, on top of the student loans, top of the credit cards, just as we're getting out of our marriage. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. No.

And we had a conversation about that.

opened these businesses before and they all have taken out SBA loans and you know I we kind of had a hard conversation about it. Um I told her that we would need to if it was even a possibility to cash flow that business

like there's no point taking out >> but down the line. So, what she needs to hear from you is I I think this is a fun thing, but but let's let's as we're engaged, and I want John to to add to this or edit what I'm about to say, but the way I would approach this because I I am in no way saying that you say to her what I said to you, okay? I want to be clear, but I do think you have to say, I think we should discuss

big things in our marriage that we think are down the line. let her throw out some things, kids, or we want to uh live

part-time in Costa Rica for one year, whatever these big fun things are that I think it's great for for uh engaged couples to to talk through. But if if we could get that to that list of that's down the line and and and try to encourage her that I don't know that's the best move. We're about ready to get married. We're going to move somewhere else, John.

And and so I I I want to set him up for a win here because I don't want her to hear no. I'd rather her hear. I don't think that this is the best time.

>> Well, and and it's just the way you get around it is not get around it, but the way you go right through it is let's talk first principles first.

>> Who are we are we going to be a couple that borrows money? >> And that's when you tell her, I don't feel safe when I when I owe somebody money >> and I'm uncomfortable. And she might say it, let me tell you the truth. in my house. Like, this may be a shocker for Ramsay fans.

A mortgage keeps I can't sleep if I have if I owe somebody money. It drives me insane. Literally, I've trapped my sleep. It makes me crazy. >> You sure it's not the gummy bears? >> It's that, too. >> Okay. >> It But my wife, dude, a mortgage doesn't bother her at all.

>> Not even a little bit. But on this issue, it's such a big deal to me that she says, "I love him more than I love

my little pet project or that I love my little whatever." And so I'm allin with him, but let's make a plan.

You get what I'm saying? And she is into gardening. She's got these big elaborate amazing gardens. I'm not I'm not a I'm not a big I'm not a gardener, but I love the fact that she loves this stuff so much. And so I'm like, "Hey, how can we make this thing happen? How can I support you? How can I go build fencing for you? And so that's what I'm talking about. Go to first principles.

Who are we going to be when it comes to sex? Who is it? Who are we going to be when it comes to money? When we have a discussion, a debate, a disagreement on how many kids we want to have, how who are we going to be in that disagreement?

You get what I'm saying?

>> Mhm. >> And that's my fear for you guys is has she ever run a business before?

>> Uh, no. >> Okay. Has she ever hired employees?

>> No. Has she ever navigated building leases?

>> No. >> Okay. That is an extraordinary amount of pressure to drop on a brand new marriage that's already underwater financially. >> And by the way, she needs to go work she needs to go work for somebody that's in that space and get a free education on how to run a business like that. >> Oh, she she has >> Okay. Well, then take notes. >> The the person who is, you know,

sponsoring her to you have to get

sponsored through this company to do it.

>> Yeah. Is it AA? I think it's a pyramid.

>> Oh, it sounds like a pyramid.

>> Yeah, it kind of does.

>> Yeah. I I I I think we have uh hopefully

given you the why and the how here, like

Ken said, I want to reiterate what he said because it was it's very wise. If you go at her and you say, "We're not doing this business. This is dumb. We shouldn't." Boom. World War II because y'all are going to be fighting proxy wars and you're not going to deal with the real issues. The real issues are you using I statements. I feel, I'm scared of, I'm uncomfortable with. Will you join me in this discomfort? That's how you move forward. Not with you statements, but with I statements.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramiesolutions.com.

All right, this is always fun when we get a baby steps millionaire who calls in to share their story. And right now

we've got Amy who's on the line in Indianapolis. Amy, congratulations on being a Baby Step Millionaire.

>> Oh, thanks John and Ken. I appreciate that. >> Well, let's get the numbers here. What is your net worth?

>> 1.6. >> 1.6. That's not shabby. Give us the mix.

>> Um, about 900,000 in mutual funds, about a 100,000 in IRA, about 500,000 on my

house, a couple of cars, and some money in the bank. I love that. Uh, did you use a

investment pro to help you on this journey? >> You know, actually I did not. Well, I kind of did. I had a friend who was really, really good with money, so he kind of guided me. But now that I'm actually there, my house is paid off. I intend to go that route in the future.

>> That's fantastic.

>> Build more wealth. >> Now, I don't normally ask a lady her age, but this is part of the story. So, if you'll forgive me, how old are >> you? down 26. But >> well, that's I'm out of here. Right.

>> And double nickels.

>> Uh 55. I've not heard that one before, but I'm quick. I am quick over here.

>> You are. >> Okay. 55. All right. And uh give us give

us a range of your income. The lowest income you've ever made and then give us the most amount of income.

>> The lowest was 125.

>> And that was um 38 years ago, and I doubled that salary the first year on commission. So >> nice. You can do the math there. And then my top salary is 114. So, not bad, but not not huge. >> What do you do?

>> I am assistance trainer for an insurance company. >> Nice. And have you been in insurance that your entire career or is it something you moved into later? Okay.

Gotcha. All right. >> 38 years. >> Did you get a degree, college degree?

>> You know, I did get a degree. However, I didn't do it until I was 44.

>> Wow. >> Um, work decided decided I decided that

I wanted it for me. work that they pay for as long as I maintain a certain GPA.

So, I did it for me. It did not increase my salary. It didn't change my job. I just did it because I didn't do it when I was younger and I felt like, not that you have to have a degree, but for me, I didn't do well in high school and I always thought I was a little not there in the brain. So, I thought, you know what? I'm going to just try it for myself just to prove to myself that I can do it. And I did.

>> Amy, you just described how I feel on a regular basis. I say to myself, I don't think I'm there in the brain.

>> Yeah, >> it happens to me on a regular basis.

>> That's why I went to grad school for so long. It's cuz I was trying to prove like to my high school self like >> Yeah, I I'm with you. I'm tracking. I'm proud of you. That's awesome. Good for you. >> Thank you. >> Uh okay, let's talk about uh

when it clicked for you. When did it click for you that a you should make this pursuit?

Uh, and what was the key to getting where you are today? Two-part question.

>> All right. Part one was I I remember this very clearly. I was 29 years old. I bought my first house. I had debt.

Didn't make much a lot of money. I made enough to buy the house, but you know,

therefore, and I thought, you know what?

I am paying all this money on these credit cards and it's dumb. So, I said,

never no more. So, I created a plan. It really happened to be the Dave Ramsey plan. I just didn't know of Dave Ramsey at the time. Right. But I put all my credit cards on a spreadsheet in some other whatever system I would use a Ramsey today. And you know, they told me pretty much his plan. So I did it. Got out of debt and said never ever again.

>> Wow. So what is the key to I I imagine

there are a lot of uh young ladies listening to this and maybe they're early in their career not making a ton of money. How what would you say to them if you could have coffee with them to get to where you are today? What do they need to do? You got to be smart with your money. Um,

for me it was I had to have goals. I plan them out and I had to stick to them. >> I couldn't buy the shoes. I couldn't buy the comforters. You know, I couldn't buy the things that made you feel better >> because I looked at the spreadsheet and went, "Yes." And then when I went to pay my house off, the current house that I have now, I put a a pad of paper on my

refrigerator and I had the balance. And every time I made a payment and an extra payment, I wrote it on there. So every day when I open the refrigerator, I was like, I'm that much closer.

>> Wow. >> And then I just did it. >> I love it. And you mentioned car or did I hear you say cars earlier?

>> I have two cars. >> Tell us about those, you millionaire.

>> Yeah, I got a 19 Subaru and a 2007 Chevy

Silverado. >> So nothing fancy. >> See, runs on oat milk and granola.

That's awesome. >> Yes, exactly.

>> I love it. Well, this is >> I didn't buy the Chevy Silverado new.

That was probably dumb, but I did. and the Subaru was a company car. And when they got rid of my company car, I said, "Oh, I kind of like this car." So, I just paid cash for it. >> Yeah. A 2019. So, it's a great car. Good

for you. >> It's a fantastic car. Uh, well, we really really appreciate you, Amy. This is um it's always fun for us to hear

from uh Baby Steps Millionaires. You've done it. You gave some great advice. So, thanks for being with us. Love that.

Let's go to Edgar, who's in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee. Edgar, how can we help?

Yeah. What's going on, you guys?

>> What's up? How we doing? >> Just trying to help America, Edgar, and you're up next.

>> All right. Um, well, I it's uh it's

Thank you guys for having me. Um,

>> I was looking to see uh if you guys have any advice on what I should do right now, uh, with uh my financial situation

that I've got going on and everything.

>> All right, set us up. What is it? What's going on? All right. I work as a as a janitor at elementary school and I work at a McDonald's as well. Um I get paid $14 an

hour weekly at the elementary school and I get paid 13 exactly at uh the

McDonald's, but it's bi-weekly pay. So I make about uh 16 $1,700 a month.

Um I have $900 left in debt. I took out

a payday advance and I I owe $350 on

that and I owe my mom about

$550.

>> And then I'm trying to know what I should do because I got a really good job offer to boost my annual income from

$12,000 to 80 to 100,000.

Um >> Okay. Why are we Why are we talking about that? Yeah, do that job. What What's the status of that?

>> It's uh I'd be helping uh people like

I'd be helping people uh set up money for retirement accounts and investing and everything. >> No, no, no. I I appreciate that, but what is the status of taking that job and starting that job?

Oh. Uh, I have to pay about $400 for the

uh I have to pay 200 to finish getting

my license and then I have to pay the uh classes and everything. >> So, I'd be finding $400.

>> Well, is it is this 80 to 100,000? Is this like we're going to give you the leads and if you just close them, is this like a fancy Tupperware sales thing? they they give uh they so there's

going to be somebody who promotes it and then there's going to be me who will take the call and I'll be like if you want to put $500 a month in here uh I'll

set you up for that right now.

>> Okay. All right. Hold the sketch.

>> I got to tell you, I thought you were talking about you were going to get into a a money management where it's actual real like a smart investor pro and they they kind of seed you your first year or two until you bring in the accounts.

What I'm hearing sounds really shady.

>> Yeah, it's a marketing thing. Don't do this. >> Don't do that. So, let's talk about how we bring Huh. >> No, no, no, no. You're gonna find yourself out a whole bunch of money for this course work. You're going to keep having to pay courses. You're not going to get the clients that you think you're going to. >> No one's going to say yes to this because John and I sniffed sketch on this in one sentence when you describe

the work. So, no one's going to buy that from you. We have limited time with you.

Um, number one, you need to be on every dollar and you don't have any money. So, I'm going to give you every dollar because you need to begin with just a little bit amount of money you've got.

You need to get a budget. Now, the good news is you're almost out of debt. Okay?

But you need to be working a much better paying job. How old are you?

>> I just turned 20 recently.

>> Okay, great news. >> That's awesome, man. >> You go work at a big box store, a Home Depot, a Lowe's, a Walmart. Like, let's go find something that's in that $20 an hour range. uh maybe he's got some benefits. I don't care if you're working at a coffee shop that pays well. You got to get on your feet and you have the good news is you have very little debt.

The bad news is you have no money either. And I'm not sure you know how to manage money. So, what I want you to do is hold on the line. Um and let's get you in every dollar. This is way more than a budgeting app. It's like having John and I in your phone. Uh coaching.

It's got coaching in there. It's not just getting you started on a budget, which you need to do. Uh, and I also want to give you Total Money Makeover so you can see the long-term picture of how the baby steps play out for a young man like you to where you're a multi-millionaire scam. >> And you're not afraid of hard work, which I love. You just got to have the right plan.

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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ramiesolutions.com/ins insurance.

Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 28:19.

Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty.

And our quote of the day from Henry Ford, thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so

few engage in it. By the way, I want to point out that that's a great example of back in the day, you could insult somebody and they never even knew it. And that's that's one of those things, right? You can see Henry Ford, he was he was throwing some sarcasm out, but you read it in today's context and it sounds like this deep quote when what he's really saying is is uh there are a bunch of morons out there because nobody knows how to think.

>> But now all of our leaders talk like elementary school kids and they're like you're dumb. You're dummy >> and you're right. >> You don't have you don't have elevated >> right.

benefits and one is insulting somebody right to their face and they have no idea what you've just done. It's really fun. Hey, that should that's a bit too.

That is I like it. Uh Will is up in Toronto, Ontario. Will, how can we help

you? >> Hi. Hey, how's it going? >> Good. What's going on today?

>> I have a Christian values question related to lending money at interest. Um so, personally, I have a fair bit of money in private lending that I'm lending out and I've um I felt really

good about it until recently. Um actually this morning in particular I was reading Ezekiel chapter 18 which appears to state that lending out interest especially to a brother in the faith is an abomination to God. Um and

there was um yeah I just wondering if is there a misunderstanding uh or or should we as Christians not be lending out interest?

>> Uh read that verse one more time slower

so that I can hear. I want to make sure I heard it correctly.

>> Sure. There's there's it's kind of a group of five verses if you'd like me to read. >> No, no, no, no. Sorry. We don't need a Bible study. I want to make sure I heard what you said. Did you say that there's a scripture verse or multiple times in Ezekiel it says to lend money to a Christian brother is an abomination? Did I hear that right?

>> Essentially, yes. >> Well, if you take the Bible as the literal word of God, and I think you probably do, then you don't need my opinion on it. I think there was not a lot of air in that sentence. uh if it's an abomination, you know, again, I'm not a theologian and I'm also not going to ever publicly interpret scripture. Uh but you know,

Dave quotes scripture all the time with the borrower slave, the borrower is slave to the lender. You've got a pretty strong statement in Ezekiel about an abomination. So, what do you think?

>> Well, and see, that's the thing is is I have my opinions which I can read out.

There's there's some nuances to it. Um I was more curious if you guys have ever been posed that question before. I I've searched up Dave Ramsey um in relation to this question. I can't see him saying anything publicly on it. I can't actually see anyone saying anything publicly on it. >> Well, actually I just addressed that.

>> Yeah, Dave Dave speaks to it. We all do.

And here's the deal. I don't loan money to friends. >> Yeah, we always tell people never to do it. But you framed it. So I want to go back. You framed it. you said as a Christian and you're coming at us with that and you you cited scripture.

>> Yeah. >> And so this is one of the situations where you answered your own question in my opinion. That's what I'm getting at.

Like you said, as a Christian, what should I do? And you said, well, here's what scripture says. So I think you answered your own question. So your opinion is not what you asked. But to

John's point, we always tell people never lend any money to anybody.

>> Yeah. If you want to help your friends out, help them out. If you want to help your family out, help them out.

>> Okay.

I I was wondering at a a Christian from a Christian values perspective, should a Christian lend money? Let's say he doesn't know the man. Let's say he doesn't know the woman, whoever whomever it is to whom he's lending. Um and and

uh if you guys have never looked into this, that's that's totally fine. >> No, no, we have you don't have us on a technicality. So, I'll say this one more time. Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And then Ezekiel's got the Christian context between Christians. But then there's the other thing which is should you ever put someone at your service, put them in financial slavery. I think we all know the answer to that. But will we also know that I think you think it's okay.

And and and I do know this about humans.

They're going to do what they want to do. But you called us and you answered

your own question on the first one and John answered your caveat. So, thanks

for listening. Josh is up next.

Harrisburg is where he is. Josh, how can we help?

>> Hi, I just have a question about like a a job change kind of situation that I've got going on. >> You called the best guy in America, Ken Coleman, to answer that question. Oh jeez. >> When I when I heard him on the show, I I was like, man, that's perfect. Well, geez, the pressure right now is unbearable, but I'll do what I can.

What's going on?

>> Um, so I currently work as a mechanic at

a local shop. Um, the money is not bad.

The people I work for are absolutely fantastic and it's a guaranteed job.

>> Okay. How much money? >> Really? What my situation? >> What do you make? >> Uh, they pay me 22 an hour.

>> Okay. 22 an hour and we like the people.

What's the other one?

>> Um, so my other one, I have two other options. There is another local shop um that is offering 25 an hour, but it would be less hours per week. Um I currently work 50, they work 40. And then my third one is uh in the maintenance department of a big corporation um where they would start at 22 and then after about 3 months move to uh upwards of 27.

>> Okay. Which way are you leaning? And let's let's so we're on the same page.

One is number one is um where you are 22

an hour and you really like the people.

Two is 25 an hour but less hours. Three

is big corporate with more money. Which one are you leaning to before you called?

>> Uh the the bigger place just because room for advancement the other the second local shop that is offering me this job like I feel like I'm I would be in the same situation I am now where there's not a lot of room for advancement and I I'm going to plateau.

Number three with an asterk is my vote.

I want John to weigh in too. Uh number three with the asterk for me is I want to do some homework. I want to see what customer reviews are of this place and and since it's big corporate, they'll be online. I want to ask around who has worked there.

Do I know anybody that's ever had their job I mean their car serviced there? How do they treat customers? Because how they treat their customers is how they're going to treat the people that work for them. So, let's just make sure that it's not this awful environment.

And if it's not an awful environment and they treat people with a modicum of respect and they got a good reputation, yeah, I go 27 an hour with room to grow. That would be for me.

>> I I just I have a unhealthy

built-in bias,

which is I want to add value to a

smaller company that I trust. The Let me put it this way. Let me take I I have a bias against people running to corporate because it feels safe, especially initially. It also is can get very unsafe real fast if Q4 numbers aren't going to make it and they got to lay off half the the the department in whatever

department they need to pick to make their final number for the year. >> Can always go back to the local place.

>> That That's true. That's true. I I >> But what's your vote? One, two, or three? I think I know. I think I hear you saying number one stay.

>> My My vote is go where you trust the leadership. Period.

>> Right. And and my kind of second question to that is um the applications for the starter like three-month apprenticeship type deal at the corporate place don't come out for another month or so. And I just got an email from uh shop number two where it's

like hey can can we call you about this?

And I just I want to know like especially and like it's not guaranteed like and

you know I have two basically guaranteed options. I'm just not I want to know

exactly what what like a wise >> Hold on. Nothing's guaranteed. >> Nothing is. But let's back out of this for a second. You're you're desperately scared that you're going to make the wrong choice. I want to flip the whole situation around on you.

>> You have three offers and one of those came today. They're trying to get they're knocking on their door to get you. If you pick wrong, you walk into a situation that you feel good about and it's it sucks. trust me.

>> Put your name back out on the market and you'll get picked up the following week.

You're too talented. >> You're in a good industry. People need good mechanics. And that's why again, uh

I appreciate John's point of view, but I want you to have upward mobility. Um we humans crave progress.

>> Yeah. >> And sometimes we just crave the opportunity for progress. And I and and

again, uh that's why I'm taking the corporate thing. Um, I think it I think it positions you well for something else. And that's the question we don't have time to get to, but I'm going to challenge you with this. Where do you want to be 15, 20 years from now with this mechanical skill? And does the corporate job position you to get there?

I think you got to look at everything, but don't overthink it. You know what I mean? Young guy, uh, I'm going to take the money as long as I'm not treated, you know, like a jerk. Hey, remember this, folks. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 91. Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is | April 9, 2026


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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, my daughter is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Brad is in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi Brad, how are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, you know, I've just um been kind of struggling lately. You know, I I make pretty decent money, made about 92K last year, but you know, I'm still kind of catching myself living paycheck to paycheck with very minimal savings. So, I'm just trying to see, you know, what's a good budgeting tool, you know, to really get me up there, um you know, so I can feel more comfortable about my finances.

Uh Brad, do you How much consumer debt do you have? Um I'd say I'm about 20K in debt. What kind of debt is it?

Um uh right now it's a finance loan for

a car, um about 2K for a personal loan, and then

the rest is just, you know, odd ends, um about 5K, 5-6K in credit cards. Mhm.

Okay. Are you using the credit cards to to stay afloat, or is this things beyond just needs that you're using the credit card for? I mean, I've I feel like, you know, every time I make a credit card payment, something comes up to where I have to use it again. So, I'm not really bringing that balance down. Um constantly uh No, I am not. Um

I've been in a relationship for about 7 months now, and uh just found out a few weeks ago that my girlfriend is pregnant, and this will be her first kid and my second child.

Um, I already have a 1 and 1/2 year old son.

Okay.

Well, there's a couple of things kind of going through my head, Brad. Um, number one is that there is a chance it's a lot of disorganization and you're living from crisis to crisis. And when that happens, there's an urgency that's created that you end up actually not only making bad financial decisions, but you end up spending more money when that's your mindset. Versus having a plan in place, knowing exactly where every single dollar is going, and cutting up the credit card, that's not your safety net anymore.

And kind of getting around, um, again, this idea that you're digging yourself into a hole while you're trying to get out of debt. And so, so what I would say to you is, number one, I think that the budget's going to be key for you, and before we get off the line, Christian can pick up and we can get you a year of EveryDollar.

out and say, "Okay, here's what I'm bringing home every single month, and here is where this is going." And you're going to start to see some some glaring habits about where the money has been going, and you're going to start to see, "Well, I can't I can't be spending like I've been spending." So, you're going to feel a pull back from lifestyle, but what that's going to give you then is cash and margin to be able to build up some savings, and then start working your way out of debt. But, it's really this this process that you have to go through because if you stay in this cycle, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.

And so, breaking out of it is big, but in your case, the the level of chaos, I think having something grounded in facts in front of you, a plan that's doesn't have feelings that you can go and stick to is going to be really important.

Okay. I am 30. I turn 31 this month.

>> Okay. Let's pretend that I hired you for $90,000 a year, and your job

was to make this guy, Brad's, money behave.

Mhm. If you don't do your job, I'm going to fire you.

What would you do? You would write down every one of those dollars and tell it what to do, and you would make those dollars behave.

Mhm. >> Right now, they're just kind of running loose and running amok. They're all over the place. And so, when you use the EveryDollar budgeting app, which we're going to hook you up with, you're going to give every one of those dollars a name before the month begins an assignment, and then you're by God going to stick to it.

When you do this, the first time you write it all out, you're going to go, "Where is I've been spending all this money?" You're going to feel like you got a raise. Right.

And um you know, and as quickly as possible and as reasonable, make the decision if we're going to be a family or not.

And um and and cuz that weaves into this greatly. So, if we're going to be a family, that means we're getting married. That's what a family is.

And so, if that's if that's where this is going, y'all need to make that decision, and then you need to weave that into your overall plan.

That, you know, we've got we now have a a human to raise.

You've got two.

But uh now we have this baby that we are

responsible for, and so we can't be going to happy hour.

We've got to clean up this debt. We've got to have money for >> She for sure can't. formula and well, formula and and baby diapers. I mean, here we go. >> She's pregnant, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

That's right. Jamie's in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Jamie. How are you? I'm I'm all right. I've been doing better. Uh-oh. What's up?

So, I woke up this morning and decided that my husband is not doing anything but keeping me poor because he blows his whole check, and mine is expected to pay for everything else. So, what I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth staying in the house I'm in now and paying 750 or moving to a

friend's house that he owns and paying 500 a month for a two-bedroom for like a year or so I can get my debt paid down and my life together. $250 a month is not your problem, is it?

No, my problem is that I've been doing this for 10 years. Mhm.

>> And it's just been me. And I pay I have So, me and him have five kids together and I have five older kids that live with their dad because when I left he kept them and wouldn't let me have them. But we have a good I still see them and have them every other weekend, but I pay $1,000 a month in child support before I even get paid.

>> What do you make?

$24.61 an hour, so about probably like >> What's he make?

$14.42.

An hour?

Yeah, because he won't keep a job.

I reckon not. He's got the worst job on the planet. I mean, crap, Target's paying 20 bucks an hour. Um >> Yeah, he won't he won't keep a job and I'm just I woke up this morning and it was like a light switch hit and I'm just tired of being tired. Yeah. Well, I mean, you opened the call with he's not pulling his weight and then you instantly change to do I move to a $250

cheaper house. $250 is not your problem.

You two getting on the same page and you two accelerating in your careers is your problem.

No, well, yeah, but well, see, I'm on track to finish the year making 28 an hour. Okay. >> job now. >> Yeah, but he's not and and so you getting on track with him is like 90% of

your problem, not your rent.

No, I know, but he The problem is he won't get on track.

I've been trying for 10 years. Well, that's a marriage problem. That's a marriage problem, but what I'm telling you is $250 a month moving to the cheaper house doesn't solve your problem because it's not high rent is not your problem.

A husband that you're not working with and you're not aligned with is your problem. So, let's solve the real problem. Let's not go jumping around, "Oh, I'm going to move to a cheaper house." and act like that fixed something. It doesn't fix anything, though. >> like it feels like you're doing something, though, Jamie. So, I get why you're like >> avoiding the actual issue.

>> Yes. You're grasping at the wrong thing.

And the hard thing is you can't control him. You can control, you know, saving $250. That probably feels good, but the real problem is something you you can't control, which is him. And so, there's some big decisions that you guys are going to have to make of what your life is going to look like going forward. And this may be really >> what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting in the marriage, in the careers, and the money. And so, change all of it.

Change the careers, change the money, or start working together and change the marriage issue. And that's how you the definition of starting to win. The things that are broken have to be fixed, and it's not your rent.

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Natalie is in Oklahoma City. Hi Natalie, how are you?

Hello, I'm doing fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I I just got married on this Saturday. And um me and my partner had discussed being debt-free and paying all of our debts.

And then once we got married and we had our first real discussion yesterday, he claimed that he's not letting go of the credit cards because he doesn't see them as debt.

Which I tried to explain to him and he said, "I'm not giving them up." But in his eyes, he doesn't see it like that.

How long did you all date before you were married?

Um we got married a year like in within

a year.

Did you guys talk to Sorry, we did it for a year and then we got married.

Like the 12 the 12 month. Okay.

So, this was a conversation you guys had. What was it yesterday?

Yeah, I I let him know that um

if we got married, you know, cuz we talked about marriage to our olders. I'm 33, he's 31.

But 12 month we got married and we would combine all you know, follow Dave's Ramsey, combine our finances until we were married and then start paying off debt.

So, yesterday I said, we should start paying off his credit cards and then start on your on your vehicle.

Mhm. >> And he's just like, that's that's fine.

I'm like, but you got to promise me not to use them again.

And he said, no, I'm I'm going to cuz he doesn't see them as debt.

And I tried to explain to him about Yeah, I think >> how Yeah, more of the Sorry. Oh, go ahead.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say more of the frustration is that he didn't keep his word. You know, what do you mean? That you guys had agreed on something and now he's changing his mind,

essentially. Which which frustrated me because he doesn't see them as debt. You know, like anytime you owe anybody anything, it's considered debt.

Those two, three hundred dollar payments you're making towards the car you can put in our savings.

And he's like, well, it's for an emergency and this and that.

And so, I don't I'm trying to work the baby steps with my partner. Now, I don't have debt other than my mortgage. I'm kind of nervous combining our incomes together if he's like you know, the program. Mhm.

Cuz I worked really hard to get out of debt and I like to buy my home. Yeah, so what bothers me about this whole thing is not the detailed issue of whether he thinks credit cards are debt or not. I mean, that's just stupid. But, um but the thing that bothers me is that you've married a guy that doesn't give a crap about your opinion

and can't keep his word.

And that level of disrespect and dishonesty is going to be way all beyond money

issues. It's going to come up in other places, too. You know, and uh well, I just stopped by on the way home from the office had one beer. I Well, you told me you were coming straight home for dinner.

Oh, well, I just one beer.

You know, I do whatever the heck I want to do cuz I'm me.

That's what this guy is and uh

By the way, there's nothing wrong with stopping by and having a beer if you want, but don't do that and tell your wife you weren't after you told your wife you weren't going to. And that's this guy. So, that That's my problem here is is the underlying lack of character uh and the underlying lack of respect for his new wife. Instead of treasuring you and wanting to serve you and love you and be there for you, he's all about

well, this is what I want to do.

Yeah, and you said >> 14 years old.

Yeah, cuz it's on his credit and his Yeah, no, it's not his. Now, it's ours.

We got married Saturday, so now you're screwed up. Everything he screws up screws you up.

For the rest of your life as long as you're married, that's what's going to happen. So, I mean, I I think the core issue is is that the that you guys have a a really weak relationship.

That's what's bothering me a whole lot more than just whether or not credit card is debt or not. That's just a stupid statement. But, the way he's a coming at this is like I told you I was going to do one thing, but I changed my mind. I don't care what you think. This is what I want to do and I don't like that. I don't care. It's what I want to do. And you know, his uh the way he's treating you is what's bothering me.

So, I don't want you to accept that. I want you to create a relationship crisis

and call for marriage counseling immediately and see if you need to have this annulled or not.

Um cuz if the guy can't keep his word and he can't treasure you and honor you, you're going to have a long life, girl.

This is not a good This is not a good start. So, uh I mean I I'm going to create a say I'm going to go see a marriage counselor because the guy I married promised me one thing and now I'm there's some other guy showed up here in my bed. Mhm.

And you know and so I'm going to I'm going to create a crisis in this situation cuz he thinks this is all okay that it's okay he does this. But he's 33 and he's been doing it a long time.

Yeah, and then He's been a single dog a long time cuz he do whatever he wants to. Nobody Nobody around he had to consider up until a year ago.

Yeah, and until Saturday when y'all get married. So, yeah the the

urgency of this Natalie is I mean I would I would I would bring in a third party as soon as possible because if you let this linger you guys will continue to create division in a new marriage that will continue on that way for a long time. And so if you can get this straightened out, at least

get on the same page of value systems and goals together working together, right? Like the big stuff. Um and then you can start doing the the tactical things of like does he keep a credit card or not? But like the the big idea of hey, we are one together and we

are going to create a financial life that we both feel good about. Yeah.

>> Yeah, and that that's and that's what's broken and that's like at the core of your marriage.

Not that money's at the core of your marriage, but you're not agreeing about life.

And you've been married 3 days. Hello.

>> It's supposed to be the honeymoon phase.

Man, all right Natalie. >> you got some Y'all got some work. But I'm I'm I'm hopeful for y'all. I really am.

>> Well, it's Some things are going to have to change or I'm not.

So, I'm hopeful that you force the change into this situation.

Uh and I'm going to have some have some people experiencing some pain over there so that we don't live a lifetime of pain. Robert in Tucson, hi Robert, how are you?

Hey, good afternoon. Can you hear me all right? Yes, sir. What's up?

All right, uh first off, I just want to say thank you for taking my call. Um before I get into the finer details, my question is essentially if I have a good plan to prepare to exit the military in a few years.

Okay, when will you be leaving?

Uh about 2 years, call it uh summer of 2028. Okay. And what will you be doing?

What's your career going to be?

Uh so, I would like to pursue getting an MBA full-time utilizing the GI Bill.

That's not a career.

Okay, so um What are you What are you going to do for a living? What is it you want to do that's going to make you money and support you when the government's no longer writing you a check?

So, after school, I'm interested in either consulting or uh investment banking.

Okay. Do you And do you have you have an undergraduate in business?

I do, sir. Okay. So, what I would be suggesting is you get lined up a job or

a a career field that you want to enter.

And as you approach summer of '28, you line up a job that pays more than you make now and you do your MBA as an adult

MBA studying at night.

Okay. Um can I just give you some numbers to see if this is uh if that changes anything? It doesn't. You still got to go make a living. What are your numbers, Robert? What is it? Um so, I'm 26 years old. I'm single.

I have no kids and I also have no debt.

Um right now, I'm making about 7,800 a month. Um my current net worth My current net worth consists of about 60 grand in my TSP. Good for you. >> Um about 200 about 285 grand and a taxable brokerage,

Um about 2 and 1/2 grand in a Roth IRA I recently opened. Excellent.

>> 4 grand in cash. Okay, great.

>> So, I mean, that's part of the reason why I'm emphasizing like going full-time cuz I've spoken to other veterans in my situation. They say that's a full-time program. It's It's not a full-time program. >> An MBA at adult MBA at night is just as good and you can get through it and there's no reason for you to sit on that savings and burn it up just so you can be a student full-time. It's not a good plan.

I would go get a job. That's what I would do.

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Kendall is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Kendall. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

So, I have a question. I have a mortgage that we got 2 years ago. We

moved into our home. We can It was newly constructed.

It went from a construction loan into a 10-year balloon. Oh, no.

I know. Uh the 7.5% and so, I'm actually about

to start nurse practitioner school this summer and so, we're looking at going ahead and refinancing now um while the rates are lower and we have a couple of different options that have been presented to us and my husband and I are kind of having a disagreement. So, um we have gone through

the Financial Peace University, but it was a few years ago.

And so, I know the answer is 30-year fixed. No, 15-year fixed.

Well, 15-year fixed, yes. But we haven't been given that option. So far, the only option we have is um either a 5.25% 5-year arm or a 6.5% 30-year

>> 15-year is 5.22 right now.

So, we haven't gotten anybody to give us

that. >> Why? I don't I don't know why because our credit is is really good.

>> Mortgage.

Churchill Mortgage, okay. >> the people we've endorsed for 30 years and they do it. They do 15-year fixed for Ramsey listeners every day.

Certainly in Oklahoma City they do them for sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yeah, we'll we'll do that then because that's that's what we're He's really leaning towards the 5.25% arm and I'm like >> No.

that does not sound good to me because >> go from We're going out of the jumping out of the fire into the frying pan of the frying pan into the fire. I mean, it's like one dumb one dumb loan into another dumb loan. No, an adjustable rate's going to tag you later.

I'm I'm looking at the screen right here where the rates are and it says 5.22 right now this week.

So >> This week, okay. Yeah, and so um yeah, that's what Now, obviously a 15-year payment is going to be more than your 30-year payment that that that that balloon is based on.

Right. >> But it's not going to be that much more cuz you're saving 2% by refinancing. Yeah, it's going to be a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah, so what is your uh what's your balance or the payoff?

So, right now it's still at 229,000

as of our latest. Okay, so it's like 4,500, let's call it 4,800, which is

$400 a month in interest savings

by refinancing from 7.2 to 5.2, okay?

And so um you know, roughly $400 a

month, not quite, but almost, $400 a month that that your interest rate goes down, but then when you switch to a 15-year it's going to go up and so you're probably going to see an increase of a hundred or two hundred dollars a month, but you're going to be in a much better long-term plan.

Right.

And and with you going to You You you're going to nursing school?

Uh yeah, nurse practitioner. Yeah.

>> Oh, really? Okay, that's awesome.

Good for you. >> Yeah. Thank you. I'm excited, but it's definitely the second half of the

uh program I will have to go part-time.

So, right now we make about equal, but when I go part-time it'll >> What's your household income?

So, right now um we're making about Let's see, I make

about 4,400, he makes about um probably close to about $4,000 a month for him. So, we we make >> about 150 a year, roughly. Okay. Yeah, about 150 a year. >> Yeah, and then when you graduate it's going to go way up, huh? Yeah. So, way

to go. I love it. Congratulations. Yes, it's worth it to bite the bullet and put a little strain on right now to get the right kind of mortgage in place and get rid of the high interest rate and the balloon, but don't jump from the frying pan into the fire.

Yeah, and make sure you guys are planning out, Kendall, when you go part-time that you guys have money saved that if you need to, whether it's shifting lifestyle or have some money that's supplementing during that year or two that you have where you have to go part-time. So, just Now, plan that out.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, good good question. Way to go. Well, you win the argument and Churchill Mortgage can help you guys with that process, I promise you. Jeremy's in Kansas City. Hi, Jeremy. How are you?

Hey, not too bad. Good. How can we help?

I need some advice on how to build some

funds while in steps four, five, and six.

Okay, what are the funds for?

Uh well, we've got I'm I need to set aside money for a

truck replacement or truck repairs in the future. I just replaced the truck, so a lot of that has been wiped out and

I need to rebuild that fund.

Uh we also need some house repairs, like painting the outside of the house, replacing some carpet. Mhm. Um I would like to have some retained earnings with my business. And how do I do all of that while also

um putting money in retirement and extra

money towards the house. I'm trying to do a lot of different stuff and I'm not sure how to break it all up. Okay. Well, start with we'll go with baby steps of four, five, and six, which is where you are. You don't have any debt except the house, right?

Correct. >> Good. Okay. So, we're going to do 15% of your income into retirement and something extra on the house.

I don't know how much depending on where all of these other things fall. When you start doing a detailed written plan, and

we suggest using the EveryDollar app cuz that will help you do it the easiest, it has built into it the ability for you to have categories where you're setting money aside for upcoming expenses. And

so, you set money aside for upcoming home repairs. You set money aside for an upcoming replacement of a truck.

However, I kind of think the way I heard this, the truck might be your business.

Right. Is this like you drive truck for a living?

Well, I own a lawn care company. Oh, okay. Okay.

But, the truck itself is not your daily driver. It's what you use to pull the lawn mowers around.

Yeah, well, that's pretty much the only time I leave the house is to do lawn care and then if we go anywheres else, we usually take my wife's car. >> Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, the thing the thing is that I mean, the work truck could easily be coming out of your work budget and your work retained earnings should be at the office, separate issue.

So, out of your profits, you set some aside for retained earnings and that could be for equipment replacement of all kinds, mowers, weed eaters, whatever down at the office, so to speak.

And that's separate from your home budget.

And then when you make a profit after having retained earnings and after having paid your taxes, you bring that money home and put that money once a month is fine into your into your checking account.

And then on your personal, you would begin to set aside sinking funds. And Rachel, the EveryDollar app does a good job with the sinking funds, right? It does. It's not my favorite function, honestly, cuz we have a function called goals in the EveryDollar and I like the goals better cuz it gives you an end date, so you can look Jeremy and say, "Okay, we want to have X amounts saved for home

repairs cuz cuz we want to do some, you know, different things around the house.

And we want to have that by December." And so that the goals part of EveryDollar, that function, I like better than like the sinking funds function, personally, because it gives you that end date and it calculates out how much you need to be saving per month and then it goes into that goals fund.

Which is in a sense a sinking fund.

Yeah, the sinking fund in EveryDollar, the way it's it's laid out for me, I I

just personally don't I don't like it as much. I like the goals category. Yeah, but it's the same idea. It's just like having an end date versus an ongoing fund. And so I like having an end date, so you guys um yep, kind of watch that

build up. So >> say, "Okay, I want $6,000 to do a home repair. That's right. >> And I want to do it in 1 year, that's 500 bucks a month.

>> That's right. And so in EveryDollar, it carries it each month over, so it's um And builds up. >> Yeah, it's very very very easy. So if you hold on the line, Jeremy, Christian will pick up and we'll get you a year of EveryDollar cuz you'll be able to like lay it out and actually see it.

And it's great. But if you have things that are ongoing, you can use the sinking funds um that function, but I love the goals in EveryDollar.

And guys, when you are going to win at anything, you have to do it very intentionally and you have to do it on paper before the month begins. So, even like when you're getting married, if you want to win at marriage, you need to do pre-marriage counseling and plan how to be married. You your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your money, your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your career, your probability of success goes way up.

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Sarah is in Greenville, South Hi Sarah, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I had a recent notice received

from the IRS for tax debt from a year when I was married to my former spouse. I was unaware of this tax debt cuz I thought it had been addressed. Um and I run a really tight budget and I have my debt snowball very

planned and I'm wondering if I pivot

from that to take care of this tax debt

uh because it had that notice of lien.

It hasn't been There has not been a lien yet and I realize that >> is it? It's $7,900.

What do you make?

I make 132. Okay.

And uh what year is this from?

2018. Okay, and you were obviously married then.

Mhm. And you filed married filing jointly? That year, yes. Okay. And um

you were not aware that the taxes were not paid?

That's correct. We had settled in 2020

and the equitable distribution required that he pay that um and

now he's incarcerated.

Um so I think that his payment plan has ceased and they're coming after me Mhm.

for it. Okay.

I'm not positive if this will work, but before you decide to pay it I want you to get in touch with one of our tax professionals at ramseysolutions.com that we endorse, the Ramsey trusted, and I want you to ask and I want you to tell them every detail of the situation and see if you qualify for a thing called the innocent spouse.

Okay? >> Okay. So an example would be uh and this

sounds like it qualifies, but I'm not

you know, without getting into every stinking detail, I'm not positive. And even if we did, I'm not sure I would know. But, the innocent spouse provision

of the regular of the IRS code sounds like this. Um a good example would be me, okay? My wife is a full-time mom.

I have a business, and we've do married filing jointly.

The number of minutes or hours she spends looking at our tax return is precisely 3 and 1/2 seconds.

Mhm. Okay?

So, she signs it and assumes that me and the tax people that we're using know what the flip we're doing, right?

Mhm. And then later on a tax bill comes up, and then she gets a notice in the mail like you did, okay? Mhm. Well, obviously she didn't have anything to do with it.

And so, she could file under the innocent spouse provision and say, "Yeah, we filed married filing jointly.

Yes, I did sign the return, but I have no working knowledge of that stupid business or that stupid man, okay? And

um so, I I I have I'm innocent of this tax bill, and they will take it off of you and send it to him." And of course, he's incarcerated, so they're not going to get paid, but that doesn't matter.

What matters is is it comes off of you.

I think you're going to qualify for that. Okay. Based on what you told me. You see what I'm You see why? Because this is the thing. A, he was supposed to take care of it. >> And B, it was a long Well, long ago, but but the circumstances were that you had no knowledge that the bills were not being taken care of properly, and you signed the return.

Correct. And that that's why I'm thinking you're going to qualify for this innocent spouse provision, which is an $8,000 switch in this conversation.

Mhm. So, that's the first thing I want you to do, cuz I'm I'm like 80 90% sure you're getting out of this.

Okay. Now, if you don't, let's go back to your question. If I'm wrong, okay?

Then what do we do with the 7900?

Uh we put it at the top of the list and we pay it off as soon as you can.

Okay, now my debt snowball It goes at the top of the debt snowball.

Okay. And you knock it out as fast as you possibly can or you go borrow $8,000 from the credit union and pay it off and then put that in the debt snowball. I don't care which.

But you get rid of the IRS. You do not want these people in your life. They have unlimited power, no brains, and they charge all kinds of penalties and

interest minute by minute by minute as you go along. >> Yeah, it's the one exception of the debt snowball, Sarah. We always say if there is IRS debt, it gets moved to the very front. Okay. Okay, that was my question. Uh and I or I would refinance it on a credit card or down to credit union, one of the two. Okay? You get it cleared up. But don't put it on an IRS payment plan unless you have no other options.

And then put it at the top of your debt snowball.

Okay. I'm sure hope I'm right about the other thing though, don't you?

I certainly do. I didn't know that existed. Um I do feel it was it was definitely out of a left field um cuz I've been doing quite well on my own with four kids, but that kind of threw me for a loop. Oh, it's so frustrating, Sarah. I'm sorry. So you're you make $130,000 a

year doing what? I am a uh regional asset manager.

What is he in jail for? Oh gosh.

Embezzlement. No way. That makes the

story even better about you being an innocent spouse.

It sure does. >> The embezzlement boy is in jail. I mean, wow.

Mhm. That's got like drama on it. That's so I'm so sorry y'all been through that.

And he's the father of your four kids?

Yes, sir. I'm so sorry. How old are you?

Um I'm 41. Man, you've been through some hell, but you are strong and you you are strong and you are smart. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Doing the best I know how to do it all to take care of these kids and and God is good and so we're just trying to make sure I honor him with the next right decision. You are you've been very very wise and very very wow. No, it's hard. That's amazing.

Amazing. Yeah, yeah, go go to our folk and they'll help you, I think. I'm pretty sure that's going to work.

Hey, you know, sometimes this free advice around here is valuable.

And save her 8,000 bucks. >> There you go. Glad she called in. Yeah.

Sending all the good vibes your way, Sarah. >> yeah.

All right, Jason's in New York. Hi Jason, what's up with you?

Hey Dave, how's it going, boss man?

Better than I deserve. What's up with you?

Uh I need your opinion, boss. Uh I'm dealing with a situation at work uh and I just wanted to see uh your expert opinion cuz I feel like I'm spinning my wheels.

Uh on paper, I have the dream job. Uh I

make $47 an hour. It's unlimited overtime. We have a pension, 401k,

benefits, health insurance, everything.

And every time I explain my situation to other people, they like, "Oh, you're a fool. I would never quit that job. I don't care what how they I don't care what happened. I'll never quit." But I'm being isolated at work.

I'm in a union environment and every time um I try to learn something new to progress because because of the union, I had to come to a department that I didn't really have a lot of experience in, which is dealing with the boilers in the powerhouse. Traditionally, my background comes from labor laboratory analytical environment.

So dealing with instrumentation in the lab clean room environments like centrifuging, incubators, blah blah blah. But because of the union, I had to come to this new environment where I'm dealing with boilers and I thought, "Okay, uh all of these old technicians been here for years. I'm not going to have any problems. They're going to pair me up with this guy and I'm going to be going around learning things. That never happened. My manager never did any of that. Yeah. They're trying to do as little work as possible. Yeah.

Okay. Well, here's the thing. >> recently >> Here's the thing. You need to be doing what you're designed to do, and it's not that. But you also can't do it that rationally because you're getting paid very well.

Yes, sir. It's It's pretty good. >> And so So, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse to stay stuck. But I would say, "Okay, what classes have I got to take on the side? What have I got to learn to

be able to move into a field that I love with people that are, you know, easier to work with, more fun to work with, and I'm learning, and I make $50 an hour?"

You know, and so what's the target? And and if it takes 3 years to work to that target, okay.

But yeah, if you just walk out and quit and and go make $20 an hour, no, that's not smart.

Um so I'm going to stay where I am and use it >> for an exit plan, I'm going to stay where I I stay where I am and use that wonderful income to fund my exit.

Yes, sir. That makes sense? So, what what what When you're doing working with lab stuff, if you were in a non-union environment, that sounds like something that would be paying in the $50 range to me.

Yes, sir, it would, and I would probably love it. I thought that this was job was going to be it. I thought I was going to retire here, but Mhm. Yeah, so I mean, could could you walk straight into that, or would you have to tool up to walk into that?

I could walk straight into it. I've had all sorts of >> if you got an offer of $50 an hour, quit and go take the $50. >> down because it was a The only reason I turned it down, Dave, because it was a contract assignment. It wasn't full-time.

>> Okay. Well, then you just hadn't found the one yet.

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next. Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> These are the two options. You got to carry your dadgum family, man.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruze Ramsey, personality, number one best-selling author, my daughter is my co-host today.

Mike is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Mike, how are you?

Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what's up?

Hey, so um I've been listening to you for a couple of years. Um I'm just starting to get serious now about the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two right now and I want to get I want to get gazelle intense. I want to get my debt paid off. I want to get out of debt, but I don't I can't really do any side work right now and I can't really afford to make anything but bare minimum

payments. Um So my question is >> you do any side work?

Um I was in a motorcycle accident back in in September. Mhm. So any of the skills I have outside of my

normal um job, I'm not really capable of

of doing right now.

Are you able to do your job?

Yeah, so I I work in sales right now.

Um so I have I have a desk job which is no big deal. Mhm. Um but any of my skills outside of that I could use to make more money or more so like working on vehicles, doing yard wear yard work,

um handyman kind of stuff like that.

>> Mhm. Okay, so that's off the table, but lots of other side hustles. I mean, side hustles aren't all blue collar.

I'm I'm aware of that. I just don't know what else to what other side hustle I could take up other than Got you. What's So what's what's your question about?

Yeah, so I got a um I got a pretty decent size tax return this year. It's about $4,400 and I can start up my own side business basically off of that.

So I want to know if it's a smart idea to do that and get some extra income rolling in for doing that or if I should just take the $4,400 and pay down some more of the debt. What's the business?

Um the business would be like a a trailer rental business. Um so people

would kind of like a a glorified U-Haul essentially. You'd rent out a trailer for when people need it kind of.

No, I wouldn't do that.

Um I don't mind the idea of taking a little bit of the 4,400 and using it to get something started, but um but it's more let's just get your side hustle going as something that's white-collar. Um Uh but the problem is you could put this 4,400 into a trailer and it never rents one time.

That that's and that's very possible actually. So um you've got to consider all your downsides, uh all the possible negative scenarios, and if they don't work, then this idea doesn't work. So I- but if you had an idea that you said, "Okay, I'm going to take 400 bucks or 500 bucks of the 4,400 and I'm going to get something going that I'm going to immediately the first month I'm going to make 500 back or I'm going to make 1,000 back um immediately and worst case is I burn the 500, well, that that's you know, we could try that, but uh this is a lot.

I I've been I've been listening to your show a lot and I've heard you say that a bunch, so I was curious what you were going to say when I said I got that big of a tax return. So I didn't No, you aren't. You knew what I was going to say. You knew you needed to adjust your W-4 so that I'm not your W-2, your W-4 so that um you know, >> Mike, how much debt do you have?

Um I have 12,000 in one car. Um I have

7,000 in another car.

Um You married? >> 35.

What's that? Are you married?

Yes, I'm married. Oh, what does she make? Uh she makes about a thousand dollars a month. She's our our church secretary.

Do you guys have kids?

No, no kids.

I wonder if she could be doing something for more than a thousand bucks a month.

How many hours does she work?

Um right now she just bumped her hours up to about I think it's going to be 32 a week. Okay, this is an absolutely horrendous job.

It's a sweet job. We do love church secretaries. We love church secretaries, but we shouldn't be We shouldn't be abusing them by underpaying them.

So, um no, she needs to go get a job where she makes three times that immediately.

What do you make? Okay.

Um I make 77 a year. Okay. And and in

sales, and that's a That's your base or

Um I am I am straight salary. I don't make commission. Oh, in sales?

Correct, yes. Okay. All right. How long you been selling?

Um I've I've been in sales for probably

uh since I just got out of high school, and I've been with this company for about a year. Are you good at it?

Yeah, I think I think so. Well, I wonder if there's a job opportunity cuz when you're commission-based Yeah, selling something else, selling something else on the side that's not competitive.

Selling is selling.

And I mean, if there's a um someone you could work for on the weekends selling um and it's a product or a service that you're excited about and that you think is valuable, um you know, you you could

probably make as much as you're making now on your side hustle if you got into something that was sweet. And and you again, that you believe in and it's a high-quality product, a good value, and you know, you can make the calls on the weekends or evenings, man, you can run your income way up as a side hustle.

That's what I would do instead of buying a trailer, putting in the yard, and hope somebody rents it.

That definitely would go do that.

>> Yeah. And really, she's being very underpaid. >> severely underpaid. We said she just bumped up her hours to 32, so she may have just been doing 20.

Still severely underpaid.

>> that's true. $24,000 a year, nobody dancing in the streets. I'm just saying.

So, um you know, that if she if she was >> True. if she's making $2,000 a month cuz she's working half-time, uh the equivalent of you know, then that's still still not >> Yep. And uh I would >> And admin skills, see if there's like a dentist office or something, you know, and you could go and do some admin, or you know, whatever. Just something creative with those skills uh that yeah, easily could be making double.

>> Yeah, we we have assistants and admins and people all through the building, and we don't have anyone making anywhere near >> Mhm. that low an income. Yeah.

Um we wouldn't be able to attract anybody what if we did. So, yeah, I think that's where I would go. Wow. Wow.

Riley is in Maryland. Hi, Riley. How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my husband and I are expecting our first baby. Yay!

Uh we're very excited. Um I am really

anxious to um get to baby step six.

Good. Um I So, technically we're in baby step two. We have a $10,000 car loan um

that's Russell alone. Mhm. Um and we do

have that in our savings. We actually have about 43,000 in our savings.

>> Good. Plus um 19,000 in a CD. Mhm. And do you have any debt other than the car?

No, that's uh no credit card debt and no >> wrong with paying it off today?

Um I would feel I feel like I remember hearing you say before that >> When you're pregnant and you're broke, but you're not broke. You have $70,000.

Okay. And if you pay off 10,000, you'll have 60,000.

Yeah. I think you're okay. then you're going to go on to baby step four tomorrow cuz your baby step three is done. Yeah, absolutely.

>> Yeah, y'all are doing great. Yeah, you need to have baby step three covered if you're in stork mode, which is where you are. But you're there. I mean, you you write a check, you're debt free, allocate the rest of the some of the rest of this money for your emergency fund, and then you've got some left over even.

>> Yeah, we do say when you are expecting and on baby step two to pause everything and stalk file money because that's what we assume you only have baby step one done and you just have a thousand dollars, which you want more of that, more money when you're having a baby, but you guys have plenty of savings, so you're good.

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West Palm Beach, Florida. Hey Josh, what's up?

Hey, how are you, Dave? Thanks for having me on. Sure. How can we help?

>> Um so so I recently went I'm a lawyer

and I recently went on my own professionally. Uh I'm 30 years old. And

uh during that time, uh you know, I was exploring kind of other things cuz I had a little bit of down time. And I uh applied to be on a

popular political debate show on YouTube. And I didn't think I would actually be asked to go on it, but then I was. Uh and then realizing that I still have a lot to learn professionally, I

you know, was speaking to somebody and they are basically now I've done three rounds of interviews to get a job at this other law firm. And now and they're both happening at the same time and I'm kind of concerned that if I go and I do

this political debate show, that they will not want to hire me or retract an offer or something because you know, I say something that they disagree with. So, I was wondering Do you want to work with someone that has a different value system than you?

Well, no.

I mean, if they if they withdraw the offer because they disagree with you, they have a different value system than you. Yeah, that's true. Um but I guess really

the reason that I called is because, you know, we're uh expecting our first child and you know, I want to have a regular income. You know what I mean? So it's feels like, you know, should I you know, if if I agree with some of their values but not other their values, do you know what I mean? And so it's just kind of like I'm Yeah.

A little bit worried about >> Yeah. No, I mean if Let me just give you an example, okay? Let's just make up an example.

everything in the Biden administration and you're you're left-leaning

or a progressive or whatever we want to label that and you take that position on the debate.

And somebody says, "Oh, I wouldn't ever hire anybody because I that does that cuz I'm a pro-Trump guy." Um you don't want to work there anyway. You'd be miserable.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that you're right. And don't worry, that's not what I'd be saying. So Well, I don't care. I don't care. It works It works both ways, right? It works both ways. And so Or Or

I'll say this though is that to have

an employer I mean, I guess if it was I guess something that you would disagree with cuz I'm like, I know our team, we have a thousand people and we all don't We're not all on the same political spectrum.

I mean, there's people that vote all different ways here.

Um and so we would never fire someone for that. >> Oh lord, thank Yes. Yes. No, we would not fire someone

for their political And we would not We would not not hire you because we saw a

YouTube thing. >> but I also Josh would not I don't know if if it's that big of a gamble cuz I don't know from a from a law perspective. I don't know what that entails in that career. I wouldn't put my career in jeopardy though in general,

right? For a YouTube show. Yeah, for real. So there's a part of me that I'm like That's a good That's a good point, too. But but uh you know, so no I I I'm From like a legal perspective, I don't know what you would >> No, I don't think I'm not worried about the law. It's a matter of, you know, but here's the thing. If you have someone that you ascertain is so extreme on one

side or the other that they will not entertain someone that thinks differently than them, and they don't want to You don't want to work there anyway. >> That's right. >> Okay. Right. >> And so, I mean, we laugh and say, you know, Rachel and I graduated from Tennessee, and you know, we laugh and say we've accidentally hired a few Alabama fans.

You know, I mean, so but you know, I mean, but but we Oh, wait a minute.

There's Bobby. He's got his Alabama hat right there in the booth right now. And so, you know, we we hired him anyway.

He's been here like got a decade or more. We just now discovered he's an Alabama guy. No, I mean, really. But that's the That's the thing. So, that that's the kind of thing That's the way we think about it around here is we just we we

we're not going to all get in a big fight, and we're not going to all spend our lives being mad about that.

But but but And so, I don't want to work for a firm lawyer or otherwise that feels that way.

On the other hand, aside from that, I

also don't know what the upside is.

What is gained by going on this? There's more There's all downside and no upside.

What is it you get for doing it? Are they giving you $200,000 to appear? No.

Um you know, and you're putting a digital tattoo Mhm. out into the world

that you're going to have to live with. >> And we know how that feels.

That's our job. Yeah, we we put a digital tattoo out every day.

>> No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. >> Yeah. No, I mean, it's uh But but But something that polarizing in today's world, I'm like, "Eh, I don't know." Just not Yeah, not worth it.

Not worth it. You know, I mean, like for instance, during the presidential election, we reached out to Kamala Harris's camp and offered to interview her. And we also reached out to President Trump's camp and offered to interview him. She declined and he took us up on it and we did the Trump interview.

I and I endorsed Trump, but I I but he's not Jesus. I don't worship at his feet.

which also upsets the Trumpers. So you

know, I mean it's Cali, some of you people really need to slow down notch.

But the but that that's kind of where who I would want to be around in other words.

And so somebody that's willing to listen to both sides, kind of curious and I like debates and that kind of stuff. But really it's got nothing to do with your career. That had to do with my career.

It had to do with what the Ramsey brand and what we're doing here and you know, this is what we do for a living. But what you're doing for a living is law.

And doing this has nothing to do with that. So there's no upside. So probably wouldn't do it for that reason.

So Yeah, there's no no upside. You know, I remember the first time I heard something like that, Rachel, that that line of thinking that um uh decision-making paradigm, I was in a sales class. I was 18 years old. And now

this is 1978.

>> Oh, take us back, Dave. >> Okay. Now I mean it's a different world.

There were there were not non-smoking

sections. >> Oh, yeah. There was just not non-smoking.

Every restaurant you could smoke in.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Every airplane >> the '90s, though. >> Every plane, every airplane you could smoke in, okay? So smoking was like

today nobody does smoke. I mean this is unusual to see somebody with a cigarette today. But in those days everybody smelled like cigarette smoke. You know, and so but that guy in that sales thing, he said, "Okay, how many of you smoke?" And most people raised their hands. I didn't smoke. I don't I never have, but not mad about it. I just never did. And

he said, "How many people smoke?" And a bunch of people raised hand. He goes, "How many people in here think you've made a sale because you smoked?" No one

raised their hand. He said, "How many of you think you might have lost a sale because you smoked?" Bunch of people raised their hand. And that's that's a valid thing. >> Because someone that doesn't smoke doesn't want to be around them.

>> mean so there's the point is there's no there's only downside, there's no upside. Yeah. Same thing here. You know, what are you going to what good is going to come of this other than you get to voice your opinion and have the thrill and the fun of it?

I mean Cuz they have have a moment of kind of a an ego thing of like, "Oh, that's cool. They asked me to be on this panel and" Yeah. Yeah. So it's I I probably would pass, but for a different reason.

>> have a new baby coming, Josh, too. You know what I mean? So I'm like, just enjoy your life. Yeah.

Um I know I was watching the >> I would not uh turn down the debate because of future employment, though.

I would turn it down because I don't know if there's I don't see any >> an upside, yeah. That's I don't see any upside. That's fair. That's why I would turn it down. And I'm tying back to what you said a minute ago. That's how I got on that. >> Yep. Um Side note, did you watch Did you all watch the JFK love story?

No. Oh, the series. Anyways, based in the '90s, obviously, cuz JFK Jr. That's about when he died. Mhm. Anyways, they are smoking all through that series.

But I remembered I was like, it's so '90s. Like, you know, as Really? Okay.

>> Yes. Yes. No, I remember when they had no smoking sections, which I always thought was funny. Yes.

>> Like the smoke couldn't jump across the section. >> smoking in the restaurants and stuff and I was like, It's like you can't It's the same stupid thing as like you couldn't go down the aisle in the grocery store because a little COVID might jump on you. It was the same thing. It's the same dumb thing.

It's like It's It's It's in the air. The smoke is in the air. It's going over the whole restaurant. >> break.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Samantha in Wisconsin. She said, "My husband has two daughters and I have two sons from previous marriages. We married later in life when our kids were already adults.

How do we structure our wills to make sure that the living spouse is taken care of first, but the children still get their fair share when the spouse passes? We want to ensure that our kids are left with their share of each parent's estate, but we also don't want the surviving spouse to lose any assets.

Would getting a life insurance policy for the value of 50% of assets be a good option to leave the leave to our individual children so that both sides get a fair inheritance?

Oh.

I would not do life insurance. >> No. No. What what you can do is pretty simple. Um and you need to sit down with an estate planning attorney and and you got to map out the numbers as much as the concept.

But often what we see people do in this situation is the money is left in a trust.

The terms of the trust are that the

surviving spouse gets to live out of

and use the trust.

Upon death, the trust is split into the two trusts um or you could have two trusts at death either one and and both of them are designed to support the surviving spouse and then upon death of that spouse then

each of the your two kids get theirs, your two yours, his two kids will get his and so forth. So, you can just and it if it's in a trust it can't go anywhere. So

if um in a worst case scenario, so let's just say okay, you you've you've amassed between the two of you a million dollars in a 401k.

Okay, and you die. That money's left into a trust and the money um

and your wife is left behind.

She gets the benefit of that trust as long as she's alive. And so she gets the income off of it and she's allowed to use the money under certain circumstances other than just the income, medical event or something like that. And the house could go into a trust and go into the same trust.

Everything could go into that same trust and she gets to use all of that while she's alive. So if that million dollars creates a you know, a hundred thousand dollar a year income, she gets to use all that and she could use some of the million if under certain circumstances that you decide in the trust. But she can't just uh change and decide I'm

going to leave the whole million to my kids and cut out your kids.

>> could she use all the million and there's nothing left for the kids? >> you didn't if you put it in the trust that she was able to use it, she could use it up. But um

but if you left the house the value of the house in there and the the money in there in one lump sum and and she's got

the benefit of that, she's going to be fine. Or you've got the benefit of that, you're going to be fine. Even if she remarried.

Okay, she still only gets the benefit of that and is bound by the terms of the trust. She can't if it's only in a will,

she could change the will. Mhm. And say I'm not going to leave it to those kids. >> the death of this in this scenario, the dad >> The dad, his grown kids don't get anything until the wife dies. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Exactly. Or you could say they get >> half >> $200,000 and the rest of it goes into a trust. >> Yep. And then when she dies, they get the rest of it. They >> Well, they get they get their portion of the rest of it. Uh but the trust cannot be undone by the

surviving spouse. Like they get remarried and the new stepfather is a jerk and he wants to scarf all the money and open a pizza place, right? Or something and and he uses up all your inherit the kids' inheritance. >> Yeah, totally. >> And it's all stepfather scam artist guy, right? And so you got a Cinderella story, right? Um and not the good part, the evil stepmother's part of Cinderella, right?

So the um if you've got all the if it's just in a will, she could change the will and cut out the guy's kids that died.

Mhm. >> And and but if it's all set up in a trust, it's very difficult to do that.

So I think you can sit down and just say, "Okay, what are the terms of the trust? How much goes into the trust?" And the terms could easily be you get to live off the income and you can use some of the principal for various reasons. Yeah. Uh and so forth.

Uh and be very careful about

um crazy stuff in there because it comes back to bite you. It doesn't age well.

Like 30 years later, the crazy thing just looks like crazy.

It 30 months later, it's kind of like, "Oh, I kind of understand why he did that." But so here's an example. You can Okay, they're 50 years old and he dies

and she's got the house in a trust, but she can never sell the house.

That would be crazy. Mhm.

Because she's going to live till 80. 30 freaking years. The house is already 20 years old. So you're going to have a 50-year-old house? No, she needs to be able to sell that house. But if she does, the replacement house has to go into the trust or something like that.

But you see, you have to give it some flexibility in there. For that person.

>> can never do that that stuff doesn't age well. You know, you look out there 30 years and you've got a mess on your hands. But the answer to the overall question is get with an estate planner and I think you can fix all of this with a trust or trusts. However, you want to set it up. And that that's a good way to get at it. John's in Myrtle Beach. Hey John, how are you?

I'm good. I appreciate you guys taking uh taking my call today. Thank you.

Sure. Um so I I I have a an issue um

difficult time talking finances with my fiance uh without it, you know, turning somewhat emotional.

Um so I'm I'm looking for good practical

suggestions on how I can, you know, inspire her to kind of look at money differently along with me, you know.

Don't get me wrong. How old are y'all?

Uh 35. Is the wedding set?

The date? Uh no no sir, it's not. And part part of the reason is we I I'd like to have the same money goals or at least similar enough that this won't be an ongoing fight. Yeah, it needs to be or don't get married.

Yeah. Yeah. >> That's just the number one cause It's the number one cause of divorce. It's the number one cause of marriage misery.

Is constantly being at odds with your spouse. Yeah, what what does she What what does the fight look like? What's the conflict look like? What do you bring up and what does she push back against?

Sure. Um so I I've been having at the

baby steps on my end with with my my

debt and um you know, I'll I'll ask her sometimes, you know, um how how's your credit cards looking? Have you been paying on them? Um you know,

what's your contribution to the household going to be like soon? Um cuz I I I take all the responsi- We have We do live together. We've been together 10 years. We've been together a long time.

We do have two kids. Um so more or less we're we're married. We just haven't done the paperwork. Um but uh so as we as we start to discuss these things and I start to ask her questions, she she gets emotional.

She gets upset.

Sometimes she'll cry, and we don't we don't yell or bicker back and forth. I just think that she feels a little guilty, and and habits are hard to break, and maybe she she may feel that I have resentment maybe towards her, which I don't, but and I try to be careful with how I speak to her and things, and um but it becomes difficult to have a conversation when she's upset, so usually the conversation kind of dies at that point.

Oh, man. Okay. Well,

the reality is, yeah, you I mean, you guys are you have two kids together, you've been living together for 10 years, you're married. So so, regardless of >> We just got married. we can't Yeah, we can't get on the same page or not, you are. So like, just go ahead and tie the knot, it's happening. >> somebody. >> Yeah, it's happening.

Um so then what I would Yeah, what I would dig into, Josh, is number one, you the way you're phrasing the questions is a lot of pointing at her, you know, what are you doing? Are you paying on the bill? You you you you. It needs to be back on you, John, of hey, here's what I'm feeling, this is the story that I'm making up in my head that you feel like that there's resentment um towards me.

Um I'm making up a story that you are

shut down emotionally, and if I press any harder in the conversation, you're going to continue to shut down, and we're not going to get anywhere. Like right, like to to be able to explain where you are is going to be really, really important in this. And she's got to I mean, girl, she's 35, too?

Yeah. Okay. We got to either get into like a good counselor and dig some of all that stuff up of what's going on, but her way of doing conflict sucks.

>> not not great. Not great, so >> would suggest good pre-marriage counseling. >> Now, and and or marriage counseling, and

get married immediately. I mean, quit it. Jeez, man.

>> Raven is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Raven. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my mom is financially irresponsible

and depends financially on her mom.

Um and I'm just kind of worried that at some point she's going to be depending on me. How do I kind of prepare for that and set boundaries when I need to about it? How old are you?

I'm 22.

Okay. I wouldn't worry about it right now.

Okay. I really wouldn't. I just I'd worry about something else. There's other stuff to worry about. How old is your mother? Yeah.

Um she's about 50. Okay. She doesn't

work? Yeah.

No, she doesn't work at all.

Is she married?

No. No.

Uh >> Is she Is she disabled in some way?

So, she um she says she is having like an

undiagnosed disability. So, she hasn't been able to get it diagnosed or, you know, get disability for it. Um so, um

Hey, don't laugh. Is it like like a like a like a No, no, no. I'm telling Dave not to laugh. Raven, you can laugh about your situation. >> I I I just I thought I thought we called that lazy. >> a Is it like an immune disorder? Like what? >> It is It's an autoimmune disease >> That could be real.

Has she had Okay. So, here here anyway, back back to your question.

Um No, I I I am I'm very suspect of that

the to say the least the uh uh

I I think I think the thing is this number number one I would pick up Henry Cloud's book Boundaries and read it.

And that begins to teach you and prepare you intellectually for how uh how difficult it's going to be to set boundaries with her.

No one has ever told her no.

And you're going to be the first one and it's going to be real difficult.

Okay, so I just want you to go build a wonderful life for you.

And then if you've got millions of dollars and you want to help her out with some groceries or something that's fine, but what you don't want to do is to take her on as

your responsibility cuz she's not your responsibility. She's 50-year-old woman that won't work.

Okay. And so um uh and so and she had every opportunity to do that and that's what you're observing. You called it financial irresponsibility. You didn't call it a medical issue. And so and you were right. So um anyway when the time comes and you have to set a boundary, I'm going to go ahead and tell you it's going to be one of the most painful things you've ever done in your life.

Because anyone that tells your mother no does not get a good reaction from your mother.

No and her my grandma's coming up on age

and we've all kind of had that discussion. So I'm I'm feeling like it's going to come up pretty close and I don't know. >> Well, I mean when your when your granny passes and your mom has to figure out how to do life, you're just going to have to tell your mom I'm 23 and I can't do this for you. You're like the old woman. You're supposed to figure this out.

I can't do it. I I Today you don't have the option of helping her. You don't have the money.

But let's say it's 10 years from now and you're 32 and you but you've put together a million dollars listening to the stuff we teach and you're able to help, but still you don't you're not required to help. You still are going to have to tell her no. In any case where she actually has to take responsibility for her life, she's going to be unhappy with the people that tell her that.

So, that's the thing I want you to pre- prepare you for. There is no trick phrase. There is no amount of money. There is no angle or strategy

that you can take that's going to make her not be pissed.

There's a 100% chance your mom's going to be pissed.

So, you might as well get ready for that. Okay? Uh the only way she's not going to be is if you become as dysfunctional as your grandmother and you take in this woman who won't work and you you continue to feed her and take care of her and she does to do nothing more. And she run off around whining acting like there's something wrong with her and there's not. She's just lazy.

And so that is a disability, but it's a different kind. And so, um that that's what you're facing and I'm sorry for that, but but anytime you have

to set boundaries with a boundary-less person the thing you have to brace yourself for is the emotional pain because you're going to be told how horrible a daughter you are and you're not.

You're going to be told you're crazy and you're not. You're going to be told everything's wrong with you and you're not. But you're still going to feel those arrows as they come at you cuz they sting. They hurt.

And so, just get ready for that.

There's no way to avoid it except to join in the crazy talk and join in the crazy land and we're not going to join in crazy land. And so, the only other then the thing that's going to happen is 100% chance your mom's not going to react well for that. She's a She's a travel agent for guilt trips. And she's going to pull out every card in the book to get you know, get money out of you and everything else and anything she could Well, I raised you.

Where were you when I was feeding you?

Well, that's like your job. You had a kid. That's where I was. And so all that. And so But but there's no amount of talking, there's no amount of words that are going to fix this lady until she comes to herself and says, I'm ready to get

better. I'm ready to get better at this thing called life. And you can't make her do that at 22.

And I don't want you to worry about it another day.

I just I do want you to brace yourself for when the time comes, it's going to be painful.

It's she's not going to go well. So, pick up Henry Cloud's book Boundaries.

You will You will go, oh, that's me. I know that guy. You know, but that's who that is.

So, that's how that works. Jay is with us. Jay is in Denver. Hi Jay, how are you?

Hello, I'm as good as I can be, Dave.

Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up?

Um I have been raised with a silver spoon my life uh my whole life. I never had to work a day. And I I'm realizing that my trust fund is about to end in about a year, uh next May or June. And I have never

worked. Uh it's my trust fund is about to my college, which is also going to

end in May uh next year. I'm studying to be an accountant and I'm getting really nervous. You So, you're I'm sorry, you're getting a degree in accounting?

Yes. Okay. And how old are you? I

I'm 23. Okay.

And uh have you Are you struggling Are you You were Were you left a trust fund because you're have a disability or a special need?

Um no. Okay, no. No, I I I I have been

given a trust fund uh through my background. >> I understand. Just your parents were wealthy, but it wasn't because you had some kind of a need. It was just they were wanting to bless you with the money.

Yes. Okay, that's fine. I just want to make the distinction. So, okay, so the money ran out and now you're going to be like an adult and get a job, huh?

Yeah, I I am and my only my main worry

is that I my work ethic I'm really worried about my work ethic and especially never had had work before. Yeah, employees are If

you you've got a work ethic or you wouldn't be getting out of school.

You don't graduate and have no work ethic.

You have a work ethic that causes you to study and go to class. That's a work ethic.

You did not work that job yet, but so have a lot of people that went to college that didn't work when they were in college. That's not that unusual.

So, I I love that you're worried about it. When do you graduate?

Uh, about May next year. Cool. Okay.

So, what would be wrong with taking a job right now and working like all the time?

See, that's the thing.

Uh, I'm an F1 legal resident alien. So,

I'm only allowed to get certain jobs that are related to campus and so,

I have been applying to jobs and I've been contacting people with my resume.

I'm just trying to get my confidence built by having a job, by holding down a job.

I'm doing that, but I'm still Well, I mean, you're you're able to start a business on the side, aren't you?

Exactly. Yeah, go go buy a leaf blower.

Rich people are afraid of leaves.

You know, go get a lawnmower. Go buy a lawnmower. And start cutting grass.

>> is not legal. Of course it's legal to cut grass.

And And it's definitely legal to blow leaves. >> about an F F1. >> I have no idea. >> Okay. No idea what you're facing. But the thing the the antidote to what you're worried about is step right straight into it head first. >> Mhm.

I'm worried I don't have work ethic. So, go prove you have one. >> Go work at the bookstore at the university campus. Like, just go do something. Yeah. >> time. >> Yeah. And you'll be fine, Jay. I think honestly, there's a lot of 23-year-olds that graduate college and they've they've never really worked before and they had to get their first adult job and all of it. So, I think it's become dramatized in your head. I think you're going to do fine, but just yeah, start working somewhere now.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Tiffany is with us in Chicago. Hi, Tiffany. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Great.

How can we help?

Um so, the reason why I'm calling in is because I got accepted into an Ivy Plus

uh school for a very competitive, very niche graduate program.

And I was offered a partial scholarship.

Um and so, even with the scholarship, I'm looking at about $100,000 a year for student loans. My issue is um where I live currently is

like a hub for what I want to do. So, like if I was working tech, but I lived in Silicon Valley. Um but my issue is I

can't move due to the nature of my husband's job. So, if I don't get a job here, I I can't get a job anywhere, if that makes sense. And so, now that I've gone through this process and then I'm accepted and everything's kind of sinking in, I just don't know if it's feasible to take on so much debt

for something that isn't exactly guaranteed, if that makes sense. Mhm.

Okay. So, your your graduate degree would be in what?

Um so, it'd be in the medical field.

What you be specific.

So, it would be in prosthetics. Okay.

And so, this is a a master's?

Yes. So, a 2-year program?

Yes, that's correct. Okay.

And it's the it's local to you.

I thought you said you were in Silicon Valley. My screen says you're in Chicago. I'm so confused.

>> No, no, no. So, I'm I'm in Chicago,

but the nature of my job, it's huge here

in Chicago.

So, it's like the equivalent of if I was working in tech in Silicon Valley.

>> Oh, I see. Got you. Got you. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, you're you're you're in you're in the geographic location to do this. I got you. Yes, that's correct.

>> right. And your husband's job is in Chicago. And what does your husband make? So, he's a doctor. Okay. And you're you're doing what today?

Oh, I'm I am an office manager.

Okay. All right. So, you're going to enter a completely different field due to getting this master's. I I I I don't know much about that field. Is a master's required to enter that area?

Yes. Why? Is there a licensing?

Yeah, so there's a lot of like board certifications, licensing, that sort of thing involved. And the licensing requires a master's.

Mhm. Okay. All right.

Well, I all I can tell you is in general

um we have never in 30 plus years of

being on the air told someone to take out a student loan and we're not going to start with you.

Um so no, I would not do it. But then I

have to stop and think about okay, what are some workarounds to get you to where you want to go? So and in general um if you can get the license if you get the masters, you can pass the licensing regardless of where the masters came from. And if you get the licensing and the certification, you can get the job regardless of where the masters came from. There are almost zero jobs in America that they

hire you based on where you went to school. They hire you based on your knowledge and your capability that you get by becoming educated, but regardless of where you went to school. Like you said your husband's a doctor, no one walks into his office and says, "Hey doc, where'd you go to school before you they ask how if he can help them or not?" Yeah, and my my issue with that too is so there's only four schools that do what I want to do.

And I applied to all of them and I only

got into one. >> Yeah, that doesn't mean I'm going to go $200,000 in debt.

Yeah, but >> I'm going to find I'm going to find another way to do this or I'm going to do something else. But there's not a you are paying for something that does not have a return on investment when you pay for a Ivy Plus.

Okay? You're paying for the famous name and the famous name has no benefit in the marketplace. None.

No one hires people to do prosthetics based on where they went to school. No one walks into an oncologist and says, "I got cancer, doc, but wait a minute, where'd you go to school?" No one asks their lawyer where they went to school.

They just ask, "Can you help me?"

I've I've got a thousand employees. I've never hired one based on where they went to school.

So, we've got to find another way to not spend $200,000 on something that has zero return. Oh, and going in debt to do it. It's just unwise.

So, you've created this you've created this narrative, this world that says there's only one possible way to do what I want to do, and it's go $200,000 in debt to do it. And that's you know, that just all that means is you have not looked at enough enough options yet. You've not found another way to do this yet. And I don't know enough about your world to give you a practical advice other than to say, you need to you need to try some other doors on this Tiffany, how much does your husband make a year?

So, he makes I think $175,000.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so, even if you were paying cash for it, I would tell you not to do not to pay an extra

$200,000 to go to this particular school. >> Okay. But, you're not paying cash for it, and so it's just like absolutely don't do this.

Please don't do this.

Um but, please rewrite this narrative

and say there's got to be another way for me to get at this. And I promise you, if there's only one possible way

for you to do this, and it's through going $200,000 in debt, that's God telling you don't do it.

Don't do it.

You're supposed to do something else with your life. I don't know what it is. But, the last thing you need to do is follow through on this. It's a bad idea. So, back up, say okay, how how can I get this certification?

Does the is the master's really required? Now, there are a few things that require >> the medical field. I bet so. I it's I don't know. I I I I don't know anything about it. I truly don't know.

I but I the first thing I would do is question everything.

I'm going to rebel, right, against the system. Now, you know, here's one you can't win, okay? You can't become a

licensed psychologist for doing therapy in any state without a master's. >> Mhm. Okay? That one you can't fix. You got to find you But there's a lot of places you can get the master's in psychology, That's right. That's right.

And and so including online for that matter. Um and and so hers is a very narrow much more narrow field than that and I don't know if it's an absolute requirement or if it's just highly suggested or looked upon.

I if it's highly suggested or looked upon, I don't give a crap.

Uh I do not have a master's. I do not have a PhD. Well, it's hard when you're in such a narrow field like that.

Naturally, your options are going to be more narrow. So you may have to even expand bigger, Tiffany, and ask, "Okay, why do I love this? Could I do something

in a similar vein that still fulfills me in that way, but it's going to look >> different? I don't know. So you may have to get a little creative if it doesn't work because if it's very if it's if it's that niche and there's only four schools and all of that. >> One of the company One of the guys that comes to EntreLeadership, they own a prosthetics store.

They they do the fittings. Mhm. And I've sat and talked to him. I do not remember any of this out of that. But that I just maybe I just didn't know what I was talking >> didn't ask him, did you? You have to have a master's. >> interesting. I I truly don't know. But I I do know the concept. The concept is I'm not paying $200,000 for something that has no ROI.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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information. We're here to help you make the latest trends easy to understand.

Median home prices are up a little last month. They generally go up a little every month. Pretty typical, especially here in the busy spring season. Mortgage interest rates are down. A 15-year fixed right now is 5.22. That's down from 6%

and some change. Yeah, it's jumped down almost a full point. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes.

Sarah is with us in Portland, Oregon.

Hey Sarah, what's up?

Hi, it's a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you. Certainly, how can we help?

I'd like to ask, how can I help my adult daughter understand how much money she is wasting on specialty coffee?

Ooh, you're not going to like my answer.

Well, she is graduating from college in 30 days, and I know that it won't be our place to offer financial advice unless asked after that. But, for the next 30 days, we'd like to give whatever advice we can. >> I I mean, it's too late. Four years she's been in college buying Starbucks, and you didn't say nothing.

Yeah.

I mean, you In 30 days, you want to fix four years of damage? No, I mean Damage?

Okay, it's just Starbucks. >> I know. It's such a bad habit. It's financially it's it's Well, does she have the money? >> is this is this lady What's she graduating in?

Um she'll have a degree in landscape architecture. Okay. >> Oh, great. And and is she a a good person? Is she of good character?

She's a great person. She's smart. She's incredibly talented. Her only sin is

specialty coffee?

It's I mean, it's not a sin. It's just that she's going to be starting her independent financial life, and I don't think she realizes >> she will realize it, though.

Yeah, when she starts writing a check she'll start to feel it. Yeah, when she looks down and sees her Starbucks bill, she's going to go, "Oh my, this is wild." Yeah. Yeah, these things you don't look down at the every expense >> no, but if it shows up in her budget I Okay. So, this is fun. It's It's a cute little >> account is going down. You're fine. But,

you you cuz you know that you can't do anything about this is the bottom line, and you're right. And I I personally wouldn't bring up the coffee ever again if I were you. But, what I would do is say this. I would say, "Hey, you're getting ready to graduate, and um

one of the things I wish we had taught done a better job teaching you during the last four years was to do a detailed written budget.

And um so, as you do as you come out, I really want you to pick up this EveryDollar app. It's free, and start doing a detailed written budget for your sake. And I wish I'd done a better job making sure you did that all along, but I didn't, and so it's my last parting advice. Here's what will happen when she does that, Sarah. That budget will the categories in a budget, when you actually do it and actually live on it, if you can get somebody to do that, the categories yell at you.

Yeah. And the especially coffee will yell at her and go, "I just spent 300 bucks this month on coffee. This is crazy." And the numbers will just yell at you.

They they If you're doing the actual budget >> And if she doesn't, she's going to be getting a starting salary somewhere, and she's going to have to learn how to live on her salary. And so I think And I think through trial and error there, she's going to learn "Okay, I can't eat at such and such restaurants weekly. I have to cut that back. Gosh, this coffee is like God, I'm spending so much here.

I got to probably pull back here." Like I think it's going to be some some trial and error. Or Sarah, God forbid, she has

the money for her specialty coffee, and that's what she wants to do. And if it's not illegal or immoral, there's a value system there, right? Like there's things people spend money on that I roll my eyes at. Um like 2-year-old birthday parties that look like wedding receptions.

I'm like, "Why would you Why? Why?" You know, I roll my eyes at that, but it's not wrong that people do that if they have the money. >> Yeah, and it's not your money. >> And it's not my money.

Uh you know, people look at people buying cars. Like I would never spend X on a car, but if you have the money, like that's what that's what they want to spend their money on. So there is a point that it's going to be what she values.

biggest flaw you can find in her is this, I would just step back and say, "Thank you, Jesus." And say nothing.

And say, "I did a great job. I have a great daughter. And if she spends her money on coffee I don't agree with, so what?" Um I I I would just step back from this and let it go.

I would encourage a budget, because a budget will point out to anyone of you to anybody doing a budget. A bud- The numbers yell at you. Yes. They go, "This is smart.

This is dumb." >> Well, and to your point, Sarah, what what your your opportunity cost of where money can go, right? So, even just throwing in a coffee a day in an investment calculator and just see what that would cost you, right? And again, not like you're never going to not buy coffee, but you start to see where your money has power and where you can use it wisely. But again, um buying coffee is you know, if that's what you want to So, I I saw this question come up on the screen earlier and it took me back and you've never heard this story.

And they used the coffee grounds

3 days.

They would reuse them over and over.

>> in a percolator. Okay, they put them in a percolator, make a pot of coffee. The next day, left them in there, make a pot of coffee. And every time you do that, it's weaker and weaker. >> say, by the third day, is it even coffee? >> this this is hilarious. The third day, it was so weak and so tepid

that they called it coffee tea.

Oh gosh. >> It was not really I mean, it was just nasty. >> water. But and so when your mother and I

get married and we use fresh grounds every morning they felt like about us like Sarah feels about her daughter. How wasteful you are. >> How wasteful we are cuz we make fresh coffee every day.

>> And didn't reuse the grounds

and have coffee tea the third day.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But in that that's so funny.

It's just a perspec- It's a perspective, right? >> Yeah, it is. It's just but I mean, I wasn't raised in the Great Depression and um Sarah's daughter was raised in Portland, Oregon. Which is kind of the home of specialty coffee. One of one of the homes of specialty coffees.

And so, um it's a coffee town for sure.

And uh you know, it's Yeah, that's interesting. But What a great discussion.

Yeah, it's funny. That's great. Yeah.

I will say this though. I want to go back to that other thing on every dollar. Everyone start doing your written budget, your detailed budget. Because I will say it again, money the numbers will if you actually look down at it, you will feel stupid when you're doing something stupid.

I mean the numbers will just look at you and go that's stupid. The numbers will go that's why you know, and when you start chunking money over like in your emergency fund when you're working on baby step three and you see that growing or you're chunking money on the debts and you see the debts start to go away, the numbers will tell you and you'll start to feel good about yourself. The numbers will say you're smart. You're smart. You're smart. You're smart. And that that thing talks to you.

It really does. It talks to you and it tells you you know, you're acting like a child or you're acting like an adult and that's silly to spend that and I you know, I remember one time I sat down in a in Financial Peace University group and this guy 100 years ago and and this guy says, I figured out when we did our first month's budget why we don't have anything in retirement. We're spending $1,200 a month on eating out.

Just on restaurants. Oh, yeah. And this was back in the day. >> that was like yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> be like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month now on restaurants, right? He goes, yeah, I figured out why we don't have a retirement. We've been eating it. You know, and the the numbers are telling you.

They're looking at you going you're dumb. This is dumb. You're consuming all of this money and you're not doing any investments. You're not doing any generosity.

as a percentage of her overall income and world, it will speak up for itself and tell her. Yeah. She's going to go to the same >> you will never have to say it. Cuz I don't think you're going to do any good saying it by the way. >> Yeah. No, I I agree.

Yeah, she's going to say none of your mom. None of your business, mom.

>> She's going to say mom, what are you talking about? >> Hey mom. >> No, in the budget too, the the reframing of you know, having your money work for you. Like that that is such a big mindset mindset shift for people to say,

what can I I'm this money is here for me to use as a tool to create a life that I love. What do I do with this to create a life that I love? And stability and peace gives you some of that. It gives you a life you love. And that's the investing and the generosity. You're doing the basic things and making sure that those things are covered. And then anything above that, then you're able to say, okay, what do I want to use this for? And it sure amounts to a lot.

Coffee and there that's great, right?

>> item. >> But yeah, but making sure that again that it's it it's in a perspective and in a reality of her overall budget that makes sense. Yeah, that's fun. Good call Sarah. That's interesting. You're fun.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

So, a couple weeks ago, Rachel and I were on the air and a lady called us with a devastating, life-threatening question.

Not really, I'm being sarcastic. And uh Rachel and her bonded immediately and >> Her name was Rachel, too, which is great. >> Yeah, her name is Rachel as well and here here we put the thing on social media, a little clip of it on the reel and it's gotten like a million and a half or something views already and it's going to be 4 or 5 million by the time I've finished talking about it.

My question is is is there ever a time in Baby Step 2 that it would be appropriate to cash flow like a life event or a once-in-a-lifetime experience? >> What would that be? So, it would be to go with these several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, AJ, and Brian at the

at the sphere in August. The Backstreet Boys? Yes.

>> friends. Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel. You know, Rachel's been twice.

And the call went on from there and Rachel was crying because she had to tell her in Baby Step 2 >> Oh, I don't think I actually said it, the words, but >> it would be a fun thing to follow up with the the other Rachel that called in about this and she's in Indianapolis.

Hey Rachel, are you there on the line?

I am. Hey, well, something weird

happened since you called in.

So, um I somebody went into my DMs and I don't look at them, our social media guys look at them, but they recognized the guy um and he wants to come on the air and talk to you.

Um Kevin is his name. Hey Kevin, how are you?

Hey guys, how's it going? Good to have you, brother. Thanks for being with us. So Rachel, this is Kevin from the Backstreet Boys. This is your This is your child This is your childhood friend, Rachel.

Oh my goodness. Is this real right now?

>> This is real. You're not being punked.

It is a dear friend of mine shared the clip with me.

A buddy of mine who's an actor, Nick Rai, Ryan McPartlin, shared the clip with me. I saw it and I immediately

posted in the on the clip in the feed I

can help. Maybe I can help. And then I I

DM'd Dave and here we are.

And I would like to invite you and a guest to come see us

in Las Vegas.

And we'll pick up the tab.

Oh my gosh.

Well, and you can't go in baby step two if you have to pay for the travel. So Ramsey's going to pick up the travel for you, okay? Are you serious right now? Is this not the best day, Rachel? So happy for you.

>> I'm like I'm like going to start crying.

That's so fun, y'all. That is so fun. I have no idea what all y'all are squealing about, but Kevin, thank you for doing this. Kevin, you're the best. And you're amazing.

Well Well, you're amazing and thank you

for all you do. You're You work in the

in the health industry, right? Are you a nurse or a caretaker or So I'm a psychiatric nurse practitioner.

I work I work in like mental health and addiction. Okay. All right. Well, you're you're you're doing God's work

right there and you deserve a break and

you deserve a mommy daddy trip or a girlfriend's trip or whatever it is. You and a guest come and hang out with us and and take a trip back in time.

Oh my gosh, this is amazing and it's such an honor to speak with you. And it's great to speak with you, James, but but Kevin, you're amazing.

Thank you. Thank you. I believe I believe I like to I'm not I don't like to spend money.

But when I do spend money, I like to spend it on experiences.

And so you should have this experience.

Absolutely. Yeah, and Rachel can testify since she's been there twice.

>> You guys you heal inner inner childs of

of millennial women across across our world. It is It is the best show. So Rachel, I'm so excited for you.

Yes, thank you so much. This is incredible. Thank you.

Um but no, I I I'm speechless right now. It takes a lot to get me speechless.

Well, I I hope you have a great time.

And and Dave, I'm a new fan now. And Rachel here, I'm a new fan as well.

Thank you, Kevin. >> to our show. John, uh is it Delany? Is

that how you pronounce it?

>> Deloney or Delany? Deloney.

I've been following him for a while. I love what he does and he actually reached out to me, Rachel, and said you were coming to the show and I was going to try Oh. to see you guys, but we got our DM timeline crossed up and I didn't get to say hi to you. So >> That is totally fine. I so I appreciate that. He's a good friend to do that. But yeah, Kevin we love you. We do. We love the Backstreet Boys, just so you know.

following along, getting all kinds of fun how to how to handle my finances as well. That's right. If you need any help, you let us know.

I'm sure you'll be fine.

Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. That's very generous of you. We'll see you this summer. Whenever, you let us know. We're going to be in touch. Our folks will reach out to you and whenever this summer, July through August. You you figure it out, you pick it out, and we'll take care of it. Oh my gosh, you're It's like you guys are incredible. Thank you so much. Like I I I I don't know I can't say thank you enough. Like That's so awesome. >> Rachel, we'll see you this summer.

Thanks, Kevin, for reaching out. That's very generous of you. Very cool. Good stuff, guys. Very fun. Thanks, Kevin.

>> Well, you don't get to do that very often. Like never. We Oh my gosh. It's

like a It's like a Make a wish.

I feel like I feel like I feel like we just healed Rachel. I was like the fact that we get to take her, you know? It's amazing. Yeah, well, Kevin's generosity Appreciate him reaching out in the DMs.

>> Yes. Glad my social media guys actually recognized cuz I I don't look at it and I they would have gone >> Well, yeah, no, but it's >> is like the Kevin. >> Yes. Yes. And his general his generosity

and all is just incredible. And it makes a fun moment. It makes a great moment.

And So, never forget it. Oh my gosh. So

great. >> Yeah. Now we have a whole new clip. And it is the whole Well, the experience part, what he said, is so true. And that's what Arthur Brooks talks about. >> The stinking sphere is just off the chain. Do I Oh, yeah. It's just 167,000

speakers. It's like you're wearing headphones. It's incredible.

>> It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, Rachel's going to have a great time and we'll we'll pick up the travel and he's picked up the the tickets and the experience that he'll have that the fact that the boys will have lined up for Miss Rachel in Indianapolis and very very generous of them and we appreciate the effort and the effort to come on the air with us and and do the giveaway. >> know. He took time out of his day to do that. So kind. So kind.

>> Very nice. Very nice. Very cool.

>> Hey guys, generosity it's uh Heals the soul.

>> the best part of uh handling your money well is it puts you in a position that you can do something. The best part of handling your fame well is it puts you in a position to do something. The best part of handling your power well is it puts you in a position to do something for someone else, which is where you will get the most joy. Yes. Yep. And so

you know, it just it goes right with the giving shows the generosity stuff we talk about but obviously it's Kevin's spirit to do that and to be that kind of a person and then it sets Rachel up to be able to do this.

Mhm. It all comes down because you were

already the biggest fan and customer and she called in on a day you were on the air. >> Listen, I got someone to Taylor Swift cuz the Eras Tour was amazing, the Backstreet Boys in Vegas.

Oh my gosh, it's life changing. It is.

So when you get to >> spiritual connection. >> you for millennials y'all this is like our Oh and I just saw I think it's um

till there's some Yeah, there's some more All the millennial bands they're all like coming back. There's like a thing in Nashville happening this summer with some of them. Yeah, it just it is.

It's so good. The nostalgia play is real and >> bands are back but they're all 80.

Yeah, these guys can actually These guys are young. actually dancing and they're all good guys. Like you like there's a one of the songs and it's a video of all of like pictures of them and their moms and their kids and their wives and you're just like oh my gosh like they've just done so well. They've stewarded it so well and I think that's why I love them too. Cuz all these years later you know. Or I'm praying for Britney still. I want her to I want her to do well.

But yeah, it's awesome. So great. So great. >> Rachel and thank you again to Kevin and and the Backstreet Boys for furnishing the tickets. What a great fun thing we get to do here on the air today.

>> Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back, so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

you with the heart of a teacher. But, they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find a full-time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Our scripture of the day, Romans 8:28, and we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them.

Colonel Sanders said, "Just because you took longer than others doesn't mean you failed. Remember that." By the way, if you didn't know, he started Kentucky Fried Chicken at 67 years old.

So, it's not too late.

I don't care who you are.

It's not too late.

Very fun.

So, Rachel, are you okay now? I'm okay.

>> down now? I did.

I said the 12-year-old me is just

dying inside.

Dying inside. So funny.

>> Listen, the boy band era was real, y'all. When you were in middle school I mean that was a that was a real real thing. So, that that's pretty wild.

>> So, they had to be like 20 years old, right? Or they were six they were they were teenagers. Teen- oh yeah, uh-huh.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah, but he was the oldest bandmate and he just told me cuz I went and I ran into the booth to say bye to thank you. Um yeah, his his oldest he said was 18 is 18 his oldest child son. Oh, so A- age he was when all this was happening. >> Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow.

>> So, and I think he was a little bit older in the band, too, if I remember right. But anyways, it was great. So fun. Um And to be able to hook her up on that deal.

>> to do like a once-a-year giveaway on Ramsey show somehow. >> if we found somebody like that, we'll do it. I mean, we didn't create that, he did. It was awesome.

I mean, we we just facilitated it, right? But um we we got So, if you call in want concert tickets, we're not buying them for you, okay?

Um but yeah, that's but I yeah, he that

he DM'd us and So nice.

>> even talking to social media guy and he's telling me the whole story. It's great. I didn't even know how this all happened, but very interesting.

Very fun. It's fun. Fun. Wonderful.

Yeah. I think I think I think she was truly speechless. Yeah, I'm sure that was like a massive uh whiplash. Yeah. Yeah, have you She had no idea why we called her on the air.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> We called her and said, "We need you to come back on the air." And she's like, "What did I do?" What? "What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?" All right, Emil is with us in Miami. Hi, Emil. How are you? Hey guys, I hope you're doing better than you deserve. >> We are. How can we help you today, sir?

Yes, so I just graduated college 4 months ago. I'm 26 years old.

I was able to secure a 70k uh career

that's uh pretty stable.

And I wanted to know how I can stay motivated to stay out of debt for the next, you know, 40 years. Um I have no student loans. I have a paid-off car, thanks to my parents.

And um I do have 5K in credit card debt.

Mhm.

And you're wanting to know just how to Well, you you you can't stay motivated in a vague sense of oh, I'm just going to be motivated. Mo- Most people can't. You need a specific reason that you're doing

things. So, uh you know, for instance, when we went broke um and I filed bankruptcy the

year Rachel was born because I was an idiot. And um so, my reason was to never

be back in that kind of pain again and to make sure I could feed my children and to change my family tree. That was my reason, my driving force was to never

be stuck with by that again. And and so, you know, why if you were to build wealth, why would you?

And what would be your goal? What is it you're trying to do with the wealth? Um so, if you're married with a kid, you'd say, "Oh, I'd love to change my family tree. You know, I I'm the first one in my family to graduate from college, and so I'm going to use that as a way to, you

know, further the the the family name and the um

you know, but I don't know what your thing is, but you need to have something that's a a reason, a why that you're

doing this. If you have a good why, your motivation is there. So, uh I'll recommend a book for you and a TED Talk as well that's famous by a friend of mine named Simon Sinek.

Simon is became famous from the TED Talk and now he's had multiple best-selling books and we've spoken together in leadership conferences. He's a wonderful guy. The book that made him famous and the talk that made him famous is called Start With Why. Mhm. Start With Why. And

so, you have to have a big why for scratching and clawing and sacrificing to win.

Um otherwise, you'll just be mediocre.

And in America today, it's very easy to

have a really high-quality life

and be average and mediocre and not be all that you could be.

The enemy of excellence is not

uh is not uh laziness and all this. The enemy of excellence is, "Oh, everything's okay." So, I don't have to push myself. Mhm.

And I don't I don't have to develop a why. I'm just like, "Thank God it's Friday. Oh God, it's Monday." Coasting. Coasting.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you need a why. You need a reason that we're doing this.

And if you've got that, then it'll get you up in the morning, and money will be a natural result of that.

So, those things that money can't buy, you know, I'm doing this for my family. I'm doing this for security and peace. I'm doing it like You know what I mean? Like those >> Doing this for Someday I want to Someday I want to give away a million dollars. Yes, the generosity.

>> I want to do this. Someday I want to do that. And that's your driving thing, and it becomes a goal. Your why becomes a goal, and then you begin to break it down year by year and go, "Okay, this year I'm going to make this much progress towards that goal.

Next year I'm going to make that much progress towards that goal." And so on. And you little bit at a time you get there, and that'll also keep you away from things that are harming you uh if you have a good enough why. And so, you know, you'll cut up the credit cards and get rid of the little $5,000 worth of debt that's just kind of that's just disorganized and lazy is all that is.

ethic lazy. Mitchell is in Chattanooga.

Hi Mitchell, how are you?

Good. Thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

So, my wife and I are planning on moving in the next 18 months, but we're planning on moving to a different state to be closer to family. So, my question is how do we tackle that large of a move? For context, we

have 85,000 still left on our house and it's worth about 350. So, our plan would be to take the equity from the house and use that as a down payment toward the next house. But, if we if we don't sell our house and but find one in the next state and vice versa, if we have somebody wanting to buy our house here, but we haven't found the next house, what do we go about with contingencies? How would that work?

Um well, I before I worried about that, I would flow chart this and say, we are moving when these things happen and not until.

Uh and I don't know what these things are, but two that come to mind could be the house sells and it could be you have your new job lined up there.

You didn't mention that. You just said we want to be closer to family. You didn't mention I've got a job lined up, do you?

I well, I work remote and I can work anywhere, so the job would just go with me. >> Okay, that's easy then. Okay.

So, the only thing keeping you from leaving could be the sale of the house.

You could just sit there until the house sells.

And then if we sell this house, would we would it be smart to do a lease back while we're finding the house in the next state?

Um I mean, if you can delay the closing, that's fine. If you end up um you know, what I would do is when you put your house on the market, I would begin shopping houses there.

And say, this this neighborhood, these four houses in this neighborhood would be great. Any of them would be great.

And if our house sells, we're immediately going to make an offer on one of those and we'll set them up for closings 2 days apart. And um

and you can make that happen. Or you can do you can you know, set up a If the buyer is willing on your side to let you live there for a month while you fool around and find a house, that's fine. But I think you can do your your footwork, especially if you got family over there, and you maybe lived there before yourself. I don't know. You kind of know some of the areas already that you're thinking of.

Well, go over there and look at go physically go visit the houses like you're looking for a house cuz you are.

And only you're just not putting in an offer today. And then don't get all hot and bothered and buy a house before your sales. That's going to get you into a mess. At least at least don't close on it. >> was the perfect Yeah, so now now so that I actually did this a few years ago. Um we ended up uh it was a two-step procedure for us because we were going to build. And obviously we didn't have time to build while we sat in the old house, right? Uh

so we bought another house. But we had already shopped that neighborhood before we put our house on the market. We put it on the market, it sold, and we made offers on three different houses in that neighborhood and moved bought one of them moved into that neighborhood. And you can do that kind of a thing. And you can also put a contingency offer that's contingent upon the closing of your old house. And you don't have to close on the new one until the old one sells.

That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jay Borshaw. Next to me, George Camel, and we're taking your calls for the next 3 hours. 88825-5225 gets you on the line where Melissa from Dallas, Texas is now awaiting. Melissa,

how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks so much for having me on today. Um, so my question that I'm trying to figure out is if I should sell my house uh while I'm currently in a bankruptcy that was caused by my husband

making investments in a failed Bitcoin

mining business. >> Yikes. >> Yeah, >> a lot going on there.

>> Okay, so you're thinking about selling the house. You're in bankruptcy. How much money did he lose in the Bitcoin mining scam?

Well, there's $250,000 in personally guaranteed business loans and then $100,000 in credit card debt

and about 274K on a heliloc.

>> This can't all be due to his Bitcoin investment.

>> Um, as from what I've seen, it's all

related to the mining equipment and the hosting fees. So, he went 624 grand into

debt for a Bitcoin mining business.

>> Uh, for the most part. Yeah. I mean, then what I didn't know as all this was happening is that, you know, he was also at certain points covering, you know, just our um additional expenses out of

whatever he was racking up on the credit cards. >> Got it. And you didn't know about any of this?

No, I Well, I knew that he was taking out loans um but I really didn't have a lot of visibility to how much we had amassed or

in what poor of shape we were in.

>> Okay. Well, before we get to the finances, how's your marriage doing?

>> Um it's really difficult. Um you know, I

feel like I came into the marriage like a huge Dave Ramsey fan. I didn't have any debt and I thought we were really aligned and you know honestly I had three babies in a 5-year period and I really just kind of took my eyes off of what the finances were and I just completely trusted him to deal with it and I feel like that was my mistake.

>> Are you guys going through counseling right now?

>> We've we've gone to counseling um twice

and you know he wasn't super engaged.

The last time that we went, the counselor started saying some kind of hard things and, you know, he felt like he was being really blamed for all the problems and he later admitted to me that he intentionally sabotaged it. Oh.

>> And yeah, like we've had conversations about going back to counseling, but I've kind of put that in his court and he hasn't taken any action on that.

>> It sounds like he's not ready to accept responsibility for how he has destroyed

this family.

Yeah, it, you know, he'll admit that he made mistakes, but he doesn't seem to view it with the same level of gravity that I do. >> Yeah, there's mistakes. And then there's threequarters of a million dollars in debt behind your wife's back.

>> Mhm. >> To try to get rich quick. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So, okay. Neither here nor there.

>> Let's talk numbers. So, you're talking about selling this house. I mean, did you file chapter 7 or chapter 13?

>> So, we're currently under a chapter 13.

Our plan was dismissed or I'm sorry.

What? It is potentially going to be dismissed.

>> Yeah. Well, we tried to move to a chapter 7 cuz my husband lost his job in February, >> but now we're in this weird situation where we have about $30,000 in cash and our attorney told us, "Don't convert to a chapter 7 until you spend down that money >> when Oh, cuz they'll take that money."

>> Yes. So, if you want if you're thinking of selling the home, let's talk about the equity and what you think you're going to do with that money because obviously to your point, the court has to approve you selling the house if you're still in chapter 13. But what what's your plan? So, you've got the $274,000 heliloc. What else do you owe

on the house and what's it worth?

>> Um, we owe an additional 455.

>> Okay. on the house and we could sell the house for around 950K.

>> Interesting. Okay. So, and then what would you I mean would you just turn around and take that money and pay off all the remaining debt or is what's your

plan here? >> So, our thought is if we end up getting the chapter 7, we would take that money

and we would really I mean we probably have to move to a renting situation and then just use that money to live for a period of time.

because my husband's not working right now. >> Okay. Okay. My question, why in the

beginning wouldn't you have just would you have not just done that? Why would why not just sell the house uh take

whatever you know $200,000 of equity and

just clear out as much of this debt as possible and then pay off the 150? Why not just do that? Well, the houses in this neighborhood have appreciated so much that we wouldn't be able to move back here now. And we really just wanted to try and provide some stability for the kids and keep them in the same school district, >> right?

But yeah, >> with the with the bankruptcy, you just lose so much control and >> you also there's a redemption that you kind of want to feel, which is getting yourself in a mess and then getting yourself out of it. I mean, I guess it's neither here nor there.

Are you asking if I'm locked in? Well, if it if the case is dismissed, >> then we will have we won't be able to refile for another 120 days. So,

>> if you don't have to be locked into this bankruptcy, I don't know that I would be because you've got equity to really uh handle more than half of the debt here >> and then you're on the hook for 150.

What's you guys' income?

Um, I'm making about 125K. When he was

working, he was in the 150 to 200 range.

>> Yeah. Plus, you've got the 30,000 cash.

I I mean, George, what do you think? Cuz I'm looking at this. Let's say you sold for $950 and you cleared the heliloc and your mortgage, right? That leaves you with about $200,000 maybe.

>> Now, we have 200 grand to play with. We can pay off the 100 grand in credit card debt and now we're down to the business debt and we still have 100 grand. So, at the end of all this, you could have 150 grand in business debt as your only thing to deal with while you rent for a while to clean the mess up. >> Well, you could also actually be more like 130 because you've got 30,000 cash.

>> Use some of the savings to knock out some of the business debt. And now you got 130k to clean up hopefully making.

Is he going to be working soon? What What's the progress on that?

>> Well, because we're trying to move to the chapter 7, he hasn't really been applying for jobs. >> Goodness gracious. And see, that's and that's that's where I'm concerned because life doesn't stop. Like this is

not the get out of jail free card that says, "Okay, we're done. This is all, you know, cleared up. We don't have to work anymore. We get to stay in the same neighborhood.

Nothing changes." This needs to change you. This should change everything. This business of we're just going to file bankruptcy and he's not going to go to work and this will let us live in the same neighborhood and act like everything's hunky dory. That's just not reality.

I'm not going to do this for the school district.

That should be the focus right now.

School we can deal with later. You guys make great money and you will be for the future. I'm not concerned about you getting into another home that you love.

Right now, we got to clean up a mess.

>> Yes. And you want to know what I'm going to say this and and it might be um controvers but it's okay for kids to

feel um the weight of mistakes that happen in life. It's okay cuz they're part of the family unit and they'll see the family unit go through some rocky times and then they'll see the family unit get their foot and and get solid footing again. And that's good. That builds resilience. That helps them see what life is actually like. And so trying to shield them from every bump in the road, uh, you don't need to do that and you don't have to feel the weight of that because that's not life.

George Camel here. Let me give you three signs it's time to stop hoping your debt problem goes away and actually take action to fix it. If you've defaulted on a debt, if collectors are calling non-stop, or if you're facing a lawsuit or think one's coming, you don't just have a debt problem anymore, you've got a legal problem. And that's why I tell people about Guardian Litigation Group.

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Back to the phone lines where we have Stephen in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

What's going on, Stephen? How can we help today?

Ste. Uh, my name is Stephen and me and my wife are uh 40 weeks pregnant and uh

our HOA has come up with an assessment

and uh it's about $14,000 and they've

given it to us for um they're giving us 30 days to come up with the money and uh

didn't know how we could uh come up with that or what we should do in the situation. >> Oh my gosh. Um what what's the assessment for?

The assessment is for uh exterior work

on our building and um it's also for a

new roof on our our condo building.

>> And you was this new information?

>> Um they came out with it uh back in

January roughly. we're looking to do

this. And uh then uh we found out a

couple months ago that one of the AC units on the roof was uh not working.

And uh so they paused the initial assessment.

So we didn't know when it would continue until um uh about a week ago. So we kind

of had to stop and pay the assessment for the new AC unit. And then now we have to pay the assessment for the exterior work and the new roof.

>> Have you talked to the HOA yet?

>> Not yet. >> Okay. I would I think many HOAs would be willing to extend this out a little bit.

See if they'll extend it to 6 to 12 months. If you ask in writing, get everything in writing, not just well, I talk to somebody on the phone and let them know your situation and see if they're willing to play ball. I'm not saying that's your your way out of this thing, but if we can buy some time, that would be great cuz this baby's about to pop. >> Yeah.

Have you been in to any of the homeowners association meetings? Is anybody else kind of out of sorts about this?

>> Yeah. Some some people are trying to sell and get out of the building. Uh some people are okay with it because they know it's going to raise their property value.

Definitely. >> Well, either way, they're not getting out of the assessment. If they sell, they'll just have to pay that out of the proceeds. >> So, it's not that's not a good solution.

How much money do you guys have right now liquid?

>> Uh, we have about uh four grand in the bank and my wife is also 40 weeks pregnant. So, >> yeah. >> Right. You need that money.

>> We need to hang on to that because we don't know what could happen. So, once mom and baby are home safe, now we have a much more clear plan about what we can do with this money. But I think first things first, you need to talk to the HOA, write them an email or a letter getting some clarity on this and asking for an extension.

>> Okay. >> But the truth is the HOA just wasn't properly funded. Money was poorly managed. They knew this was coming and they chose to just make it a special assessment versus, you know, increasing dues way back when in order to save up for this.

But this is it's just part of HOA life. >> It's part of home ownership and we say all the time that owning a home is not cheap. Like there there are costs that go along with it. But I 100% would do what George said.

I would send a letter and I would make it clear. I'd give a reasonable reason and say, "Hey, my wife is 40 weeks pregnant. We have medical bills coming due. We want to stay on top of those.

We intend to pay this. It's not you trying to get out of paying it or, you know, trying to fight it as much as it is just saying, "Hey, just need a little bit more time." That's reasonable. Most people don't have $14,000 just sitting around unless you've been walking the baby steps for >> That's why I go like very few people in your neighborhood are going to be able to afford that. >> Exactly.

And and I think there probably is some power in everybody kind of getting together and saying as as one, one band, one sound.

>> Oh, yeah. >> From drum line. >> Good reference. >> Yeah. I don't think about drum line often, but >> I never do. It just came up now. All

right. Caroline is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey, Caroline. How can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I and me and my fianceé are getting married later this year, and I am just wondering how aggressive do I need to be with investing? Um, we've gotten out of all of our debt. I went to school um on scholarship, so I have no student loans and he has no >> any type of debt. And I'm just curious since we're both 21. I'm just curious what it looks like moving forward and being as wise as we possibly can.

>> I love that. >> So just general advice for for newlyweds.

>> Yeah. But like more more like with investing and like trying to, you know, get wealthy, not necessarily quick, but just preparing for >> You want to be intentional as best we can. >> Well, time is on your side. At 21, so here's the math on this because I think this will really encourage you. At 20 years old, the power of a dollar, it turns into 73x that at 65 years old. So

20 to 65, every dollar you invest is really worth $73. But when you're 55 and

you invest that dollar, it's only worth about $4 at 65. So you see there is a a

big hockey stick going the opposite direction over time where you don't have time for compound growth to do its thing where your money makes more money and that new pile of money makes a little more money when you're invested wisely into you know a mutual fund a giant grouping of stocks and we're all rooting for the revenue to go up the share price to go up which increases your wealth. So I would definitely be that would be a goal of mine. I wouldn't make it the singular goal because you guys probably also want to become homeowners or go on a honeymoon or take vacations and upgrade the car.

>> Um I have about $5,000 saved cash and

then I also have like 6,500 already invested in like a Roth IRA account.

Okay. >> Um he does not have much savings at all.

Um, but yeah, >> uh, you know, the the the best thing to set yourself up for investing is to make sure that you can set that money and forget it and never have to pull it out again and just let it continue to grow and grow and compound like George said.

And the way to do that is to make sure that you've got adequate liquid savings.

Um, and so I would suggest bumping up your $5,000 to six months of expenses.

Three to six months of expenses. How much do you think that that would be in your case?

Um, I'm not totally sure. We haven't quite found a place to live yet. Um, but once I do, like I do plan on getting that done right before we get married and move in. >> So, that'd be When do you get married, by the way? >> October 1st of this year.

>> Okay. So, that'd be thing one um is figuring out, okay, what's it going to cost for us to live once we're married?

And then thing two I would say is uh

from there we can decide okay we're going to invest uh if there's no debt between the two of you you've got the three six months of expenses now you can say okay baby step four is what we teach 15% of your gross income combined income

going towards retirement and usually that's through an employee sponsored account like a 401k uh a Roth IRA if you

don't have access to a 401k uh do both of you have that access >> I do he does that.

>> Okay. Uh, what kind of work does he do?

>> He's in construction full-time. Um, he's with a smaller company, so they don't offer any type of insurance or retirement benefits. Okay.

>> Um, I will be starting my job in the hospital in June. And so, they do offer all of those things. >> Okay, great. Then he can put earned income into, you know, a Roth IRA. What do you know how much you guys will be earning together?

>> Uh, together we'll make around 95.

>> Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So the goal would be yeah 15% of that every

single month. Pack that away and honestly you're off to an incredible start. George, do you are you looking at numbers on that? >> Yeah. So that you know 15% of your 95,000 that's 14,250 bucks going towards

these tax advantage retirement accounts.

So we we always teach match beats Roth beats traditional. So what that means is if you have a match through the the hospital, let's take that first because it's a 100% return on every dollar you put in. Then if you have a Roth option like a a Roth 401k or Roth IRA, let's fund that. And if we still haven't hit 15%, then we can go to the traditional option.

If you have a traditional 401k, so it just gets filtered through that and he he can still open a Roth IRA and invest just like you have.

And you guys will be off to the races at 21 if you guys just stay out of debt.

>> Keep the emergency fund.

>> Jay just crunched the numbers for you using our investment calculator. Tell her what she's won. >> Yeah. At at age 21. This is just if you did this till retirement age 59 and a half or 60. Uh you said you currently have 6,400 in there. 6500. This is you

contributing 15% every single month at a annualized rate of return between 10 to 11%. That's 9.5 million Caroline.

>> Holy moly.

>> And so that just shows the power of starting young. To George's point, starting young when you're ready, right?

You've got everything, you know, squared away. You've paid off your debt like you guys have done. You've saved up your 3 to 6 months like you guys have done.

This is amazing. >> You are the poster child for this is what life can be like when you don't graduate with a giant pile of debt and a car payment and credit card debt cuz you were told you have to build credit, which is the stupidest advice you could give to an 18-year-old. So, keep doing what you're doing. Stay out of debt.

Don't rob your retirement. Get on the same page. Align on your money values and your goals. And you guys are going to be baby steps millionaires and homeowners in no time.

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All right, big announcement, George.

It's May and you know what that means?

>> The Ramsay cash giveaway is here.

>> That's right. That's right. I thought you were going to hit me with it's going to be May and that would make me >> Well, at first I was like big announcement, it's May. And I was like, oh, there's an M dash there. It's a pause. A pregnant pause, if you will.

>> Pregnant pause. Well, he's right. It is Ramsay cash giveaway. And because of that, you can enter every single day from May 1st to May 31st for one grand

prize of $10,000.

Plus, there's going to be one week weekly, one weekly winner of a $500 prize, and you can enter daily to increase your chances of winning. Plus, be sure to check out our sale going on right now. You can kick off summer with books and assessments for just $12. Go to ramseysolutions.com/giveaway now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. I love that for you guys. All right, Derek is in San Antonio, Texas.

How can we help, Derek?

>> Uh yes, ma'am. First of all, thank you for uh for you answering my call.

>> Yeah. Uh little nurse. Uh the question I have uh is it's something that's really been bothering me a lot causing a lot of stress in my life to the point where I just been sick for the last few months and I just want to make sure I'm, you know, making the right decision. Uh my wife and I both retired, uh former military, we both retired, received a pension.

Uh there's some disability benefits in there and I got lucky. God put me in a good place.

Uh and our current income right now is currently 275,000 a year. Wow.

>> As our home income, >> uh the situation is uh is about buying a

new house. >> So, we currently live in a home uh that we, you know, we moved into when we PCS here. We never thought it was going to be a forever home, but we thought it was a a nice home that we moved into and then we decided to get out of the Air Force. And uh it's not a million- dollar

mansion or anything, but it's a nice two-bedroom home, twotory, and uh it is definitely better than anything I ever grew up with in my in my lifetime.

>> Okay. My wife wants to move to a one-story, but it is almost $800,000,

which currently has a mortgage of about $4,500 a month, which is currently 25%

of our current income, which which I think is okay. >> Yeah. But >> yes, >> but I plan on retiring officially because I mean between deployments, I mean you you name it at overseas uh PTSD

and everything else. I really wanted to, you know, retire and start focusing on my family, my grandkids in the next 15 years. >> 15 years. Okay.

>> And that's going to cut our income in half to about 150, which turns that now

mortgage, which is a 30-year mortgage. I know it shouldn't be a 30-year mortgage, but I know it's going to turn that mortgage into, >> you know, 40 uh basically 50% of our pay. >> Yes. >> And I know we're not going to be able to afford that. And that's only if based on the current world that we live in, this job keeps me and everything stays functional because there's cuts that I see every day, especially in the world of tech and AI, such as people getting cut daily. I'm afraid that if we make

this purchase that she really wants to make that we can afford right now that if anything happens uh it's going to

ruin us. It's going to ruin us because we've never She's never ever experienced a financial bind. You know, she grew up with a lot of great things. I grew up poor so I know what it's like and I can deal with it, but I know she's it's going to just it's going to tear us apart. >> Dude, you you >> I don't know if I should do this. >> I I I 100% sympathize with what you're

saying. there's something to be said for you've worked really hard, you've um you have a really great income and it feels like yeah, I want to live at the income that I'm earning money, but then those fears creep in and it's like what if everything goes south? Um and then if that's the case, I I'm we're really in a bind. And so I kind of want to normalize

that because that's true for everybody.

I mean, if I lost my job tomorrow, George, or if you lost your job, now we have an emergency fund. >> Yeah. Yeah, but it's not like we could just never work again and be fine, >> right?

that's all of our lives is we could lose our job and even with an emergency fund is three to six month, you know, six months of expenses. So, you have six months to find a new gig. So you're saying that that would be impossible for you? >> No. So what I'm saying is that so is that it it wouldn't be impossible. I could find another job. But so the so the issue is that the house that we live in right now, we only owe 130k.

>> Uhhuh. >> So I and with our total savings and and investments and IAS that we have right now, we have over 300 saved up right now. >> Okay. >> Uh so so with 300k saved up right now,

uh >> that's what we have just set set that's for for retirement. That's what we have set aside for retirement. You know, 324 is is the exact number. >> Okay. >> The the house that we live in now, the the plan that we were looking at, and I'm sure a lot of people probably tell you this, is that my current mortgage is only $1,100 a month.

>> Love that for you. >> And and then with but with the current uh market, I could easily rent it out for twice that and and allow that renter to pay for it itself while I just focus on the new house, which I don't think is which I don't know is a good idea. >> I I probably wouldn't do that. I think what it sounds like to me is this is just a meeting in the middle.

Because the truth is, yeah, I don't want you to get a $800,000 house on a 30-year mortgage. I want you to get a house that you can afford on a 15-year mortgage that that lands you at 25% of your income. So, I do think $800,000 sounds like too much house for you guys right now. Maybe you could get closer to 600,000, right?

So, I think that there's a place where you can meet uh that your wife is going to feel good about the upgrade and that you're going to feel good about.

anxiety about it. Maybe you get something that's instead of 25%, maybe it's 15% or, you know, 20% and it makes

you just feel a little better at night because here's the thing. You said this is a 15-year play. If you have a 15-year mortgage, do you want to know what? You're debtree in 15 years. And most of the people who follow the Ramsey plan are debtree a lot faster. It's more like a 7 to 10 year deal.

>> Right. >> So your game plan is to retire in 15 years if everything goes to plan.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> Then I think that's that's the play is you get to retire once this mortgage is paid off. That kind of gives you a great carrot to dangle, doesn't it?

>> Yes. >> So if it's 10 years from now, boom, you got to retire 5 years earlier. And so I love the idea of setting a goal where she's not having to settle and you're not having to stretch. Instead, you both are aligned going, "All right, great. We might need to wait a year to build more equity, knock out this mortgage, which you guys could knock out 130 grand mortgage pretty quick, making 275 with no debt, right?" >> Right. >> Have you been putting extra toward it?

>> Yes. So, and I So, I doubled down on it and that was so I was wondering, you know, should I just pay off this house that I'm in now? >> Yeah. triple down. >> What I have and then triple down, pay this one off and then >> you have all the equity. So when you go to sell, and here's what I did, you roll over that 100% equity right into the new house. >> And do you have any other cash laying around? Not retirement, but just liquid.

>> Yes, we have about 100K just sitting in in between our savings accounts.

>> Okay. And I'm sure that's a big cushion.

>> That's a big cushion. I'm sure probably 50 or 60 would be fine for you to feel good about having six months of expenses. So, there's another 40 there that you could put with that and add that to that down payment. >> The more you can put down, the lower that mortgage is going to be.

And if it's on a 15-year and it's a comfortable payment, you're going to be able to throw extra at it and knock it out. What we've seen is average about seven years if you follow our plan to get rid of that mortgage. >> Mhm.

>> It does. I just got to talk to her about it now. >> Well, once you get stareyed about a home, it's party's over, man. I mean, once you're Zillow doom scrolling, you're like, "This is the house, babe.

This is the one. It checks off all of our boxes." >> That's a realtor's dream. They're like, "Oh, we got them." You know what I mean? It's like going to the dealership being like, "That's the car I want." >> You don't want to do that.

You want to go in with walkway power going, "We don't need this house. It's a good house." You kind of want to be nonchalant about it. >> You do. I mean, Derek, when you called in, you said you made yourself sick about this.

>> I think so. I think I think I feel I feel I feel a lot better. >> Good. Good. You deserve that. >> I really appreciate it. >> And thank you for your your sacrifice and service to both of you. >> Yeah, absolutely. You know what Dererick is talking about. I I totally

understand. And and and some of the best advice I got was just to like no matter how well you do, no matter how well you earn, just like if you can keep your expenses low, it just does give you a piece of mind that >> you're more flexible. >> You're more flexible and and if something did happen, it it is it does help you sleep at night. Like I could totally understand what Dererick was saying, but then there's a side of it that you don't want it to creep into like irrational fear and just kind of like >> just kind of scarcity mindset.

Glass half empty, it's all going to come crashing down. I'm like, dude, you got you're debtree with 100k in savings. You make 275. Even if you go down to 150, that's still double the average household income, right?

>> If you can't make that work, we got bigger fish to fry. >> You got bigger fish. And And you know what? The worst that h it's like play out the worst that could happen.

The worst that could happen is you sell your house and you downgrade. Decade from now, we might sell the house. >> Yes, >> I can live with that.

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All right, George, let's go back to the phone lines. We have Jonah who's in Cleveland, Ohio. What's up, Jonah? How

can we help today?

Hi, my Morgan Stanley advisor wants me to get a low limit credit card. I was wondering how I should respond to that.

>> What's their reasoning?

>> I mean, just for reasons of building credit to get a car and a home and just

the standard reasons.

>> Do you agree with them?

>> I I'm on the fence. Um I've never had a

credit card and I've been doing fine so far. So, I'm just wondering what you guys think. Well, you tell me this. The Morgan Stanley Advisor exists to help you build wealth. Correct?

>> Yes. >> Now, tell me this. Them telling you to get credit, to get a car loan, which goes down in value while you pay interest on it, how does that help you build wealth?

>> I'm not sure. I mean, always buying something is not going to make you more wealthy. >> Let's play this out, then. Would you not question the advice of said financial adviser and whether or not you should continue working with them?

If you guys have different values and operate by different set of principles,

>> right? Right. And this is where I'm confused and looking for guidance.

>> Well, the truth is uh 99% of financial

advisors out there are going to be telling you the same thing. You got to get credit if you want to survive in this world. You got to build. Everyone has a car payment. It's fine. Just make it a reasonable one. All of that. Get a home as soon as you can no matter what because it's awesome to build equity.

This is the kind of stuff that we hear all the time and the truth is not all financial advisors are created equal. So you want to find one that aligns with your values and principles which it sounds like are I'm debtree. I want to stay debtree. I want to build wealth with peace and simplicity and not by playing some game.

>> Would you is that I I'm projecting but you tell me what your principles and values are. >> That that's exactly right. I'm just concerned about if I get to the time when I need credit will that affect me.

So let's talk about that because that's a that's what you're asking Jonah is something that probably lots of people are wondering about even while they're listening right now which is don't I need credit George and Jade to operate in this world and the honest to God truth is you do not. So George let's tackle the three I'm going to go with three main areas where people that think that they need credit. First one is well what if I want an apartment? Aren't they going to check my credit score uh for me to get an apartment?

And the answer is some places yes but many places no.

not necessary at all. >> What they're checking for is delinquency, a bad credit score, no credit score, and I've done this multiple times. No credit score, renting apartments. Yes.

They just go, "Okay, well, it might be a slightly higher deposit." >> That's right. Same here. Okay. The next one is, "What about a car?

How am I ever supposed to buy a car in this world, George and Jade, if I don't have a credit score?" And uh over here, I'm going to tell you and and we're going to break down how to do it uh in a minute, but we buy cars in cash here. And I know that that probably made Jonah, you might have clutched your pearls or somebody listening clutch theirs, but >> you can't do that in today's world. Cars are $50,000. Well, don't buy a $50,000 car, you dingus.

>> No. What you do there, there's two paths to doing this. One is, let's say I have a car note now. I just aggressively pay off the car note that I have now.

And when the time comes, in the meantime, after I've paid off the car, I'm putting aside a little bit of money extra and extra. And when I'm ready to trade the car in, I take whatever value is from the tradein or if maybe I sell it, you know, private sale. I add my saved money to it and I'm able to upgrade. Now, this is a stair a slight stair step up.

Maybe I had a $10,000 car and I go up to a $14,000 car. Or I had a $10,000 and I go up to a $16,000 car, right?

right out of the gate. Do you see what I'm saying? This is a very slow and methodical way. Yes.

And and the value is you get to drive a new to you vehicle that's paid for and you have your cash to invest, you know, and build wealth. Now, the third thing, George, and this is the big one. How the heck am I supposed to buy a house in this world, George, without a credit score? >> This one's hilarious to me because everybody who has opinions about it has never done it without a score.

That's right. So, let me be the guy who's done it, Joe. >> George and George and I have done it. >> Yeah.

It's called manual underwriting or a no score loan.

>> That's it. >> That's it. >> And so, and Church Hill Mortgage has been a partner of ours for decades now, and they specialize in these types of loans. And so, it's very possible to live without a credit score. In fact, I've been living without a credit card for 13 years now. same.

>> And I can count on maybe half a finger how many times it was it like was more difficult to live my life. >> There was one time that I was renting a car and because I didn't have it was like your return ticket. >> You need a return ticket. >> Yeah.

To the same city. >> They think you're going to apparently never come back with that car if you don't have a return ticket. >> And that was the only time. And I I mean we got around it somehow.

then it came back when we got a mortgage, but I've never utilized it.

I've never needed it for anything since then, Jonah. Um, and so that's Are you

convinced? Are you going to number one not get a credit card? Number two, switch financial advisors.

>> So, my only other question is what if I could guarantee covering the cost on the low limit every year? If you could figure that out, we wouldn't have a show. So tell us how you're gonna guarantee.

>> And even then, here's the truth. You're gonna spend more than you would have.

Would you agree you're going to spend more of someone else's money that you get to pay back later versus your money coming out of your account now?

>> Well, I would just not spend it at all if it if it ever became a problem.

>> Well, then it's too late, isn't it? Once it's a problem. We have $1.3 trillion

dollars in credit card debt as a nation and zero dollars in debit card debt last time I checked. >> And and honestly, if you're if your thought is like, I'm just going to get this credit card, but I'm never going to spend it. It's not going to help your credit in the way that you think it is.

A credit score measures all of your dealings with debt. So, in order to have an optimal credit score, you have to borrow a lot of money frequently. It has to be revolving. So, it's measuring things like how long have you had the credit? How much of your available credit are you using? How, you know, uh

what's your total amount of of of credit? What's your total amount of debt? Like, it's looking at all of that as a full picture. And so, if you're thinking, "Oh, I'll just kind of like dip my toe and just kind of like wet my beak in the water." It's not going to work.

You're going to get pulled into it because every month it's going to say, "Here are some things that you can do to build your credit." And next thing you know, you're going to say, "Well, I'll just put my gas on there >> or I'll just put my groceries on there." And even if you play it perfectly, all you've really done is make it through the maze, which you're going to have to keep doing. Have you heard of Seisphus, the guy who pushed the rock up the hill in Greek mythology, and he had to do it every single day.

>> We're going deep. >> That's life on even navigating the credit score game. So, here's the deal, Jonah. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, because I wrote the credit card chapter exactly for a guy in your shoes who goes, "I don't want to play this game, but I think it's the only path." And I walk through the eight different credit card archetypes of the perfect spender and the world traveler and the rewards redeemer.

And I walk through how to live with a debit card. Sisphus is in there. He's an example in that >> chapter, I believe. >> I love that.

>> I think it's a great I like I like the reference cuz that's an exa. I look at that guy pushing the rock up the hill with his 16 credit cards figuring out which one to utilize based on rotating cash back, which by the way is for like restaurants and entertainment, which is the number one area they know you're going to overspend on. That's right. But I got 5%.

money, Jade. I flew home for free, Jade.

I don't pay for that. >> But you spent double on those Taylor Swift tickets because you knew you were putting it on a credit card.

>> But I get an Uber credit, Jade, if I get my >> double. You made a bigger tip at the restaurant. You got a second drink at the restaurant. >> $700 annual fee for the pleasure of using that card.

>> Wow. >> Oh, but it's thick metal. It's really cool >> when people put it down. Have you ever been out to dinner with friends that have credit cards and they you can tell they have like a pride or like a look at this >> when they put it down?

>> I I actually told Fairwind's Credit Union cuz they have the Ramsey co-branded card. I was like, "Will you guys make a me like a real thick metal card just to troll the credit cards out there so I can be like, "Yo, check this out. It's called money." >> You want to know what what you're saying though is the deeper part of this.

the hard-earned money that I have confident in handling the money that I've earned it is enough for me. I don't need to move a little bit over here and spend a little bit over here on this credit card and get the points over here. It's just >> when your rewards can't tempt me. I am invincible. I have risen above the system. >> Yes, I'm outside of the matrix. And I think that is just a better way to live.

It's not that I'm better than you. It's just that my life is more peaceful. So, you get to choose. And uh hang on line, Jonah. We're going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke, specifically the credit cards chapter. Read that.

Send me a message and let me know if you've changed your mind.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. Next to me is George Camel. We've got Logan on the line from Orlando, Florida. Hey, Logan. How can we help you today? Hey, so I was wondering uh my

grandmother has a property and she's

going to sell it and she gave me an opportunity to get it for less than it's worth. And I'm $50,000

in car debt. I live at home right now,

so I don't have many bills >> just that.

>> Yeah. Other than that, yeah.

>> Okay. So that's the only debt. Just the $50,000 car payment. Is there anything else? Student loans, credit cards, personal loans, anything like that?

>> Nothing. >> How much money do you have saved?

>> Uh about $20,000.

>> Okay. >> And how much do you make

>> including side jobs? And my actual job,

it's around 90.

>> All right. You're making 90.

>> All right. And what's this deal with grandma? Why is she willing to give you a deal?

Where? Where is she going? >> I guess just because she loves her grandson. I don't know. Just uh she she

likes the property. It's 10 acres. Uh grandpa died, so it's just too much for her to take care of. And she doesn't necessarily want to get rid of it, but it's just too much for her. So, I think she'd give me a deal just to kind of not fully get rid of it.

>> You think she would or she told you she would? >> No, she Yeah, she will.

>> I'm just saying I think that's the reasoning. >> Okay. Tell me what the market value is and what type of deal she's giving you.

Tell me the real numbers.

>> So, I would get it for 350,000 and it's

probably worth 5 to 600,000.

>> Wow. Okay. And do you like the house? Do you love it?

>> Oh, I love it. You know, it's got a warm place in my heart.

>> Okay. >> Sentimental value. >> That's sweet. >> Right. But if this wasn't grandma's house, it was just on the market. Would it be something you'd be like, "Oh, >> it's on the market for this price. For this price, I would jump right on it." >> So, here's the thing. You're not there yet. You're not ready financially to buy it for a couple of different reasons.

How urgent is this? Or is this a deal that can stick around for maybe the next 12 to 18 months?

Well, I know she's ready to be done with the maintenance and everything, so I don't think it's necessarily like she's ready to move tomorrow, but I think

she's she's ready. It might she might be

able to hold off for the next 12 months >> cuz you've got you've got a couple of things that you some ducks you need to get in a row. Number one, we've got to either pay off this car or get it sold because we don't want to go into home ownership while we're still in debt because then it makes it very, very tight. >> Dan, this thing is over half your income, so it needs to be gone. What is this thing? What kind of vehicle?

>> It's a Jeep Gladiator.

>> And how old are you?

>> I'm 22. >> And it's brand new.

>> It I bought it brand new. Yes.

>> What's it worth today if you went and sold it? So, I went to the dealer yesterday to see what they would give me. They told me they'd give me 31 for it.

>> Well, the dealer is the worst place to sell a car known to man. So, let's not go there cuz they're trying to make a profit. >> Just So, I Yeah. So, I looked up just ones that people are selling around me and they're going for around 34.

So, it's not too much. >> Do you roll over negative equity? How are you so underwater? >> I did. I did. Uh, >> I bought a truck during CO.

>> Okay. Well, here's the here's how to get out of this thing. Let's say you sold it for 34. That means that you are 16 grand

underwater. Luckily, you got 20 grand sitting there in savings. So, that'll cover the amount you're underwater, leaving with a few grand to get you a beater car for now to get you from A to B. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Now, what's your payment and insurance?

Uh man, my payment is um 850, but but

I'm paying 300 a week because I was just

trying to get it down.

So, I've been paying 300 a week and it's 850 and

I pay my dad like

he doesn't really charge me for insurance, but every once in a while I'll give him like four or 500 bucks

just to Okay. you know, but we can easily say it's a,000 bucks plus for this payment plus insurance and all of that. So, that's what you would free up >> to then start saving up an emergency fund followed by a down payment >> cuz if you really want this house and grandma's willing to wait, then I would act like this is urgent and I would get rid of the stupid car that's going down in value when you're telling me that you want to be a homeowner >> and and and let me give you some real numbers.

And this is not intended to bust your bubble. This is just intended to give you a dose of reality because what you're seeing right now is a deal and you're only seeing the deal, but you're not seeing the reality of what can I actually afford.

Okay, so the real numbers on this and and I'm just using our Ramsay Solutions mortgage calculator. I put in, let's say she sells you the thing for $350,000, and let's say it's on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage, because that's what we'd suggest around here. And right now, I'm seeing that the weekly uh average 15-year fixed rate mortgage is about 5.64%. So, I put that in here. You would

need to put about 54% down in order to get this thing close to 25% of your take-home pay, which is where we like your mortgage payment to sit. 25% and that's everything. That's HOA, taxes, insurance. We want no more than 25% of your take home. >> You're talking like 180 grand down.

>> Uh 190. >> Yeah. >> And it's still tight for you. That puts you at around 1,800 a month. And honestly, I'd like you to be closer to 1,500 a month.

So that's me being your your your buddy here and telling you the truth that even with you going balls to the wall like George said and selling the car and doing all those things which you need to do anyway by the way, you still have a journey >> ahead of you, right? And we don't want you to be like Icorus flying too close to the sun on this thing. >> That's right. >> You know, >> and just because the offer is generous doesn't mean that this is a good deal that you can afford.

>> Right. So what should I be at for a car

payment? >> Zero. If if if okay, so if I get rid of

my truck, I pay the negative equity off and I buy a beater, right, for for how

long?

>> And then just stick it out with the beater. >> Stick it out with the beater while then saving up paying yourself that car payment of 500 to a,000 bucks a month.

Well, now you got 12 grand more at the end of 12 months to then upgradeing car.

>> So you sell the beater, take that profit and apply it along with your 12. Now you got a $16,000 car. And the key is you don't want anything with wheels and motors to add up to more than half your income, your sustainable income. So don't include the side jobs that you may drop. What is your actual full-time income? Let's say it's 70 grand. Well, then we want no more than 35 grand tied up with things in wheels and motors. >> Do you understand why, Logan?

Why we're saying all this?

>> Why we have these parameters?

>> Tell us tell us in your words why you're doing all this so we know you understand. Well, well, I'm thinking just uh so I'm not paycheck to paycheck

living and I'm out of debt before I go into a uh mortgage.

>> That's a big part of it. But the other part of it is what George is telling you to do with this vehicle. That's a long-term mindset. The mindset is I never I I never go into debt for cars again. I'm always going to use this method of saving up and upgrading for cash. And the reason for doing that is over time, you're going to have so much money at your disposal to be able to actually build wealth. We've said it before, George, and I'll say it again.

Really, the divide between being middle class and being actually wealthy is the car payment. That car payment, 700 bucks a month, 800 bucks. Many of you are over a,000. If you took that money and put it back into your pocket, maybe not all of it cuz you're stacking money for the next car, right? But even $600 or $700 additionally to be investing regularly, that is the ticket. That is the unlock to building wealth.

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All right, we've got Stacy who is joining us from Salt Lake City, Utah.

Stacy, how can we help out today?

>> Hi, Jade George. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me. I am wondering

if it's at all wise to give my

mother-in-law a certain amount of money every month just so that we don't keep

having her approach every month to give us money. Kind of basically just getting ahead of knowing that she'll need money

and just making it that she has it already and kind of avoiding that situation of being asked.

>> Oh boy. So, >> so we're going to direct deposit to her account just to avoid her having to talk to you.

>> Well, yeah, basically. Yeah. Like,

>> yeah, like not that I I know it's

stressful for both of us. I would assume at least where >> What's her attitude about it? >> She doesn't >> She um I mean, she doesn't act entitled to it by any means. She has six adult

children, five of which all have the same job. they're all in the same trade.

Um, most of them make above 100K a year.

So, like everyone's able to help her.

She doesn't have the legal ability to work in the country. >> Okay. >> Um, so she does live with my brother-in-law. He has he owns a home and she lives in um, so she doesn't have

a car payment. She doesn't have a housing payment or anything. Okay.

>> She does have a a teenager dependent.

>> Um, >> how long has she been in the States?

uh since she was 17, I think.

>> And she hasn't been able to work that whole time. >> The entire time?

>> I know. She did part of that time. And

then I think there's just been some >> I'm just confused who's been floating her lifestyle and income this whole time for decades.

>> Her children.

>> And has that has that changed now that you guys are fronting more of it?

>> Um I I think it's shifted. my she lived

with my husband for better part of a decade before I met him. Um and then she

moved in with her other son when he bought a house. >> Okay. >> And she kind of just >> So what is the current situation for how much each sibling's giving? Like what is her monthly income that you guys are supporting her with?

>> Um I I I'm not aware of anyone else giving her like us basically an allowance every month. She has been asking us for money consistently for about five months. It's about $800 every time. Um >> what is she using this money for?

>> It's medical bills is big ones which we were aware of cuz she had like medication like it's not just like oh we need it for >> does she have health insurance on her own? >> She does. She has Medicare.

>> Okay. >> Umation was a little different. >> How old is she? >> I think she's 56.

>> 56. And has she has she to your

knowledge has she tried to um get the correct visas to be able to work or try to appeal that or whatever it is. Has she been working on that or did she just give up on I mean I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in that area but I >> I'm just curious.

>> Yeah, she has. We're actually working on it right now. >> Okay. >> Um it sounds like it's just kind of something that takes a little longer than we had hoped.

>> Okay. It doesn't sound like there's much urgency on her part. I mean, she's got Bank of Stacy, so it's like, why do I have any urgency to go to work when I don't have any bills and someone provides my income? >> I I'm a little worried about that. Yeah.

I wonder, >> do you have the money? >> Like sometimes, >> Stacy? Like, how are you guys doing?

>> Yeah, we make great money. Um, I have an income and so does my husband together where you take about 13,000 home net.

>> Okay. And you guys don't have any debt?

>> Expenses? >> We have a little bit. I we just paid down a ton. So, we have like $11,000 of consumer debt left. >> Okay. >> Um so, that'll be gone in the next two months. And then we have a $488,000 mortgage still. >> 488.

>> Mhm. >> 80. And do you guys have any cash saved like liquid funds?

>> We do. We have 14,000 in um high yield

right now. Um and then we'll be getting tax refunds soon as well.

>> Okay. >> But yeah, 14. Okay.

>> Well, I know we can afford to. I guess >> you could you could be in a better situation. I will say that. I mean, the the the the the walls are not caving in on you, but I definitely would if you are going to put yourself in a situation where you're contributing to this monthly, and that's fine if you decide to do that. >> You've then got to get very diligent about making sure that this is not at a detriment to you um by by being very

intentional about what you guys have going on. And I mean, anybody who calls the show, I'm going to say, "Hey, you you got to get on the baby steps." And I think for you guys, paying off that $11,000 of debt and doing that today

because you've got the money there, right? >> Which leaves you with three grand, which is the reality of your situation is you have three grand to your name.

>> Okay? >> So, it feels good cuz you make a great income, but it is disappearing through a giant mortgage, supporting mom, whatever else shows up. And so I think you guys could do a better job of not making sure this money doesn't slip through your fingertips. And I think your husband needs to be aligned here. Is he wanting to continue to support mom at a certain level? >> Um I we just talked about it today actually because another situation came up which I'm calling. He does and I

brought up like it doesn't seem fair if she's asking us for the entire amount that she needs every month because she does have three other adult children.

>> And what's the entire amount? as my husband. >> Uh I mean right now it's another 800

for I think the last four months. Yeah.

800. >> That's the total amount that she needs, >> right? Yeah. >> And you guys have been giving her what?

Four or two or you've been giving her the entire 800 >> this month or this today? We did decide on 200 so that other siblings will help. The last three months we've given her the entire amount each time. So, it sounds like it sounds like there's a couple of things.

It sounds like the the six adult siblings need to get in a room or get get on a Zoom call and say, "Okay, here's the deal. Like, mom is going to need this money for the foreseeable future until this visa business gets worked out.

that we are not all scrambling every month to decide and putting her in this position and her putting herself in this pos like >> and she needs to be clear on what these new guard rails and boundaries are because if not it's just going to become a well I can get more out of them this month. No, instead go hey we're going to support you for 18 months and by then you need to be getting a job and then once you're retired we can figure that out later on in life but she could live another 40 years.

>> This is a long time and And I think that's the bigger part of this is somebody, and I'm not saying it's you because you're the in-law here, but somebody whose blood needs to be looking at this and going, "Okay, why can't she work? What is the visa that she needs that she can work? What do we need to do? Is it is and is anybody on top of this like it's their full-time job?" Because the truth of the matter is, of these six adults, you might know what they earn because you know their trade, but you don't know their financial situation.

month for some people might feel like, okay, we can swing that. But for for other families might feel like, hey, especially if they're let's pretend they have debt and they're trying to pay their debt off, right? So, um I want to

set the expectation that all these siblings may not contribute and you can't be salty with them if they don't >> because it truly is their choice and we don't know what's going on with their money. >> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's fair. you know. >> Yeah, that's kind of how I was feeling today when I was like, why is always us every month?

But you're right. Like they >> because you guys are willing and you've done it and therefore who who's she going to come back to? The hand that feeds her. >> Yeah.

>> So that's there in lies the problem.

not really generosity anymore. And therefore, you guys need to be more involved with her finances because if she blows this or she is going into debt, well then this is just a never- ending money pit. So, you guys need to be working on, hey, here's your budget. Here's how much is going to go towards bills, you know, to help support whatever the household.

Here's how much goes through insurance. Here's how much is fund money. And she needs to be on a budget if you're going to be handing her this check every month.

>> Mexico. >> Okay. Um, where do you guys live? Salt

Lake City. Okay. I was just thinking like I don't know this is crazy but I was like oh I wonder if she lived closer if she could cross the border and work and then come like if she lived >> like you know Southern California. I don't know I my brain was trying to solve for the here and now.

But I that that opens a whole can of worms. But anyway >> I would just get clarity. I think we need to have a come to Jesus conversation with just the siblings. You don't need to be involved.

That's it's up to them to figure out. Then your husband comes back to you to go hey what do you think about this situation?

>> Yeah. Yep.

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Okay. Rebecca is joining us from Orlando, Florida. Rebecca, how can George and I help today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Hey, so my husband and I are we're just starting the baby steps. We're working on paying off debt. We have about $50,000 in debt. Um some student loans,

some credit card and our household income is around 135. So, we're 32 and

we're kind of behind on the game. We haven't started investing or saving towards retirement. >> Okay. Um, and we have two young boys and we're contemplating having a third.

>> We would love them any closer in age.

So, we're thinking about getting to the Megan this year. And, uh, I think it's important to know I'm a 1099 contractor, so I wouldn't be getting paid for maternity leave if we chose to have a third and with three littles even to contemplating would it make sense for me to stay at home? And so the question is, is it wise to kind of say all done to having more babies for the sake of where we're at currently financially?

>> Um, I don't think that's the case, but I do think that it would behoove you both to really put real numbers on paper and create a timeline to see what's actually possible within the parameters that you guys uh say you want this to fall into,

right? you get the values of saying, "Okay, if if I have a third child, do I

want to stay at home? And if so, what's that going to cost, you know, and and let's run out the real numbers before we just take this thing off the table?" Cuz I'm a fan of families. I I love families and I love >> mamas being able to have, you know, as many babies as as they want to and and making a way to afford that. So, >> um, where you are right now, you're 32

years old, you've got the $50,000 of debt. Um, is there any money saved up anywhere?

>> Yeah, so in our savings, we probably have eight or so thousand.

>> Say that again, please. >> We have we probably have about $8,000 saved a regular savings account.

>> Okay. 8K saved. And you guys are bringing in what? 8,000 a month. Is that is that about right?

>> Yeah, more or less. Okay.

>> How much can you throw at your debt every month after all of your bills are paid?

So, one of our sons has some medical

stuff that uh kind of eats up a little bit of our margin. Um, but I'd say it's safe to say probably like six or $700 if

we're if we're tight.

>> So, you your bills are costing you about

over seven grand right now per month.

>> I mean, I think if we're >> What's your mortgage payment? So, so we're renting. It's $2,600 a month.

>> Rebecca, speak directly into your phone.

Tell us again what's your what's your rent payment? >> Oh, I'm so sorry. >> That's okay. >> I said our mortgage or our rent payment is $2,500.

>> 2500. Okay.

>> Yes. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Uh, yes. Yes, ma'am. 25 is a little over. So, there's a little bit there that's eating into there. Um, what else majorly is going on that is

because your kids are not in daycare right now or are they?

>> Right. No, we we don't have to pay for child care thankfully. Then we have some family help. And so right now um we have

our just the student loan payments which

um is about 500 a month. I don't have all the numbers right in front of me, but um we have >> Yeah, I feel like and you know, it obviously could be a budgeting thing, too, but I feel like um >> part in this. >> I think that there's some intentionality that we can really really tighten up.

Are you guys using every dollar?

>> We just got Financial Peace University downloaded the app. We haven't started We haven't started it structurally yet.

>> Okay. I think that's going to be an unlucky find out that you can live on way less and carve out way more margin.

Cuz here's the here's why I was asking.

If you can throw, let's say, two grand a month at the debt, you're done in two years. >> If you can throw more at it, you're done even faster. And so what I'm trying to do is get you guys debtree as soon as possible with an emergency fund. Not that you have to wait for that to have the next baby, but if you're saying, "Hey, my goal is to stay home potentially." Well, if you can't make the current income work, how are we going to make less income work?

So, we've got to figure this out. If it's true that you really want to have this kid, if that's the priority, then we need to make sacrifices to make that a reality. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, we have um 65 I'm sorry, 60 is

coming from me. I work part-time right now. >> Um and then 75 from my husband.

>> Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. It's cutting it in half. Um, so

the the main things that I >> those things we feel >> Go ahead.

>> I was just going to say, you know, I feel like if we already had a there, we would just be looking at how do we make this work. But now that we're kind of in this decision period, it's we don't want to be unwise and impulsive. You know, >> the biggest the biggest area where I see it playing out in a potentially very stressful way is your cost of housing.

So right now you're paying 2500. It's more than 25% of your take-home and if

you go down to >> 4500 take-home pay for example.

>> Exactly. That's when you're going to be really strapped. It's going to be I mean darn near impossible to accomplish anything like that. >> So there's another sacrifices.

We need to change where we live if we want to make this a reality. So that's where I go. Go you can go do a fake budget tonight just using his income >> just to see where things would fall. And even you can go, okay, let's say we're debt free.

Let's take out those debt payments. It's still going to be tight and really here's how much house we can afford. Then you can start to map out, you know, what is realistic for your situation. >> Mhm.

Now, right now, your your current kids that you're not paying for child care.

longer have access to that?

>> Sure. So, my uh my in-laws and then my

mom has said they'd come and and watch the boys and so they're in their 70s and we're just thinking with a third it may

be a lot for them. Um my kids right now are seven months old and two >> well with the debt paid off if you put one in daycare you might be able to swing that and continue to work. So, you keep the two with the family members and then decide which one would go to daycare and without debt payments. You know, you freed up $500 in student loans. Who knows how much from the credit cards, right? And now maybe you can swing that and by then who how old's your oldest?

>> He's two. He finds Tennessee.

>> Okay. So, kindergarten for you is going to be kind of like the the unlock moment when one of them can go off to school, >> right? So, I do think that this is possible. I think you've just got to get creative on what it looks like and get

so so intentional now before you're pregnant. Now is the time where you guys are working, working day and night, like Michael Jackson said, all the money, right? Because you guys need to pay off this debt so quickly. You need to start saving for um 3 to six months of expenses and potentially a down payment down the line.

>> Great. Thanks. Okay. No, that that is

helpful. Um, yeah, because I just feel like the third changes a lot uh in terms of my income and just how we, you know,

our lifestyle. >> Absolutely. >> And that's the thing. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom with three kids, your lifestyle is going to look very different and you might need to live further out where rent is 1,500 instead of treating 500.

And so there's just trade-offs all the way around. But you'll have the most flexibility and options if you become debtree and you have the emergency fund and hopefully your husband has a a ceiling, you know, a bigger ceiling for his income. He can start making more. Then life will get a little more comfortable.

But right now, the saving grace is these parents and in-laws who are willing to watch the babies.

>> Oh, it'd be tough. But what I really love about um her calling in is this

idea of like family planning, like thinking thinking about what you want to do, laying out the numbers, laying out a timeline, and making a plan and not just kind of going into it blindly cuz like I said, I love babies. I love families, but there are things that we can do to make that a better situation for all

involved. >> Surprise. I always love people like it was a huge surprise. I'm like, "Well, I don't know if you were in science class, but shouldn't be a whole lot of surprises there. You're not Mary in the Bible here." >> I mean, sometimes it happens. George like slips past the goal. You know what I'm saying? Just accidents happen.

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All right, we've got John who's in New York City, Florida. Is there a New York City, Florida? I don't think that's right. Where are you at, John? >> New York City. New York City, New York.

>> That's what I thought. I was like, one of these is is correct. The other one is not. Well, we're glad to have you. How can we help you today?

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Um, my wife and I purchased a short-term rental um, in

October of 2024 and uh, at the advice of

a tax strategist that we hired. Um, and

we're bleeding 2500 to three grand a month in this short-term rental.

>> Okay. >> Um, and I I own a business. My wife's a

full-time nurse and uh, we get taxed heavily. Obviously, the business does.

And that's why I enlisted with a tax strategist to understand, you know, options, you know, as far as building generational wealth and how to do that.

And that's when we got into the short-term rental. And, you know, we got bonus depreciation. So, that was nice.

We, you know, we we were able to write off the federal taxes and stuff, but bleeding 2500 to three grand a month is not doesn't leave a very good taste in my mouth. >> You might as well pay that to the government in taxes at that point. If you're just going to bleed it, >> like, I might as well not even >> You're either giving it to a lender or to the IRS. Pick your poison.

>> Correct. Correct. So, my my real main

question is, you know what?

I'm really, it's hard for me to trust people now because of how, you know, this this leaves sour taste in my mouth and I just need really good direction.

You know, what do we do with our money to help build generational wealth? Um, to find properties that cash flow. What should my next steps be? You know, company this year, but I'm nervous. Um, we own a uh a print company.

>> Okay. Where did the real estate come into play? Because these are two different goals of I want to build wealth but also I want to be a real estate guru and leverage a bunch of debt. >> Correct. The real estate came into play because of the taxes we were we were getting um we're getting heavily taxiously. >> Would you agree that getting into real estate just for tax purposes is not a

good idea.

>> My wife she said true. You're losing 36 grand a year because of the tax strategist saying, "Dude, you want to save on taxes, just leverage an Airbnb.

It'll be great." >> Well, I think you thought you were going to build wealth, too. I think you thought you were going to use that as a wealth building vehicle as well, not just a tax shelter. >> The goal obviously is wealth building for gen, you know, generational wealth.

>> What went south? What went south with the short-term? Was it the location? Did you not get the rents you thought you were going to? Like, what happened?

>> Well, I think it's our In all honesty, I think it's our property manager. Um, so our realer is also our property manager.

And when I met with him, I'm pretty upfront. I said, you know, listen, I said, I just need to know what our worst case scenario might be with this property. And he said, your worst case scenario is you're going to be out $1,000 a month. I said, good. Let's go.

We're good. That that sold. >> So, you knew that from the jump.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> And I was fine with the thousand. I I knew it wasn't going to cash flow well, but I also was using the benefits of, you know, how much we were going to save on taxes and then also building generational wealth and making this kind of a yearly thing. we wanted to do. Um, >> okay. So, it just nothing was looking good. >> So, what would this property sell for?

>> Property management company. Um, a million35. It's worth according to Zillow million65.

Um, we also own a home our our personal

residence. We bought that for 820. It's worth about 965.

Um, >> what's left on that mortgage?

>> That one 6 617.

>> Okay. Okay. And what's the mortgage on the short-term rental?

>> That's about 820.

>> Okay. So, you got, let's call it 150 grand in equity on the short-term rental you could get out, >> correct? What other debt do you have? >> In all, again, obviously, I got to pay um we did do a loan where there's a prepayment penalty. So, we got a 5year prepayment penalty, which goes down every year. >> Um so, we'd have to eat that obviously.

>> What kind of loan is it? Something >> is it called a DSCR loan?

>> Okay. What other debt do you guys have outside of the two mortgages?

>> Truly, my wife's got a car. It's about 600 a month. Business pays my car. Um,

we have 0% credit cards that aren't due till and next year total about 37 between both of us. 37K. Um, >> you are a credit card company's dream.

>> I'm sorry. >> You're a credit card company's dream.

>> I know. >> Cuz guess what's going to happen when you can't pony up 37 grand out of nowhere to pay the balance? Well, now that's let me give you the full full picture. I have 160 sitting in the bank.

Um, so and my wife has Do you have anything? I think she's Yeah, maybe 10 grand a wife. Um, but between both of us 170. >> Okay. >> Mark I already know. I know it's going to pay off that 0% credit. >> How much? >> Okay. Well, great. How much uh what's

the total amount of your wife's vehicle? Not the monthly payment, the total amount.

>> Total amount. It's a lease.

>> Oh, it's a lease. And what about you?

>> My car's paid through the business. It's uh 524 a month. It's a super rout back.

>> How much is the debt though? What's the total debt?

>> Um I owe it's it's paid. It'll be done at the end of this year and then I I either will lease another car. >> What's the total debt?

>> Don't be scared. >> I apologize. >> Don't be scared. >> Um so what's 524 times? What's the

amount that you owe on your car? How much do you owe? >> Okay. Yeah, it's we got we owe on my car

is going to be uh three grand.

>> That's it. That's all you have left.

>> Yeah, cuz it's a lease. So, it's 3,000.

>> Oh, yours is a lease, too. Okay. So, >> goodness gracious. These are the nicest cars known to man. What are you guys driving? 600 bucks a month for a lease.

>> When's the lease up? When's the lease up >> on your lease is up? The end of the year. We're both We're both the end of the year. >> Okay. Okay. And are you planning on buying them out or what are you what are you thinking here?

>> I don't know to be totally honest. I haven't thought about it. >> Okay. So, we're going to help we're going to help you think through that. What I want you to take away right now, John, is you're kind of like a happy golucky guy and and you're fun to talk to, but I'm concerned about your situation greatly. Um, you got a lot going on. And the good thing is I think

a couple of moves could get you on just a couple of small tweaks could get you on really, really solid footing. But you'll have to agree with George and I that you're in a dire situation in order to actually do this cuz I feel like you kind of think it's not that bad. >> You guys have out earned your stupidity for a long time >> and you can continue doing that. I just think you will you vehemently disagree with everything we're going to throw at you.

So, I don't even want to waste the time.

I would sell the short-term rental, walk away with whatever money you can get, take your 160, pay off all of your consumer debt, >> and then anything remaining, it becomes emergency fund plus paying down the mortgage.

>> Gotcha. >> But leveraging the debt priorities, paying down our primary res, >> paying down everything. Pay down all the consumer debt first. Get an emergency fund. Focus on paying off your primary mortgage. Right now, you're just trying to accumulate stuff and assets and car

leases. And we're trying to simplify your life to where you get to keep what you take home >> regardless of how much you pay in taxes.

I'd rather you pay what you owe in taxes and not have all the stress in your life and go that sucks. I had to pay the IRS more than I thought. >> But it's it's a nothing burger if you had no debt. >> You figured me out perfectly cuz I I my wife would tell you I I do stress out a lot about it. It's not worth it.

>> It's it's very stressful. It's stressful for me just to listen to it. So I can only imagine how you feel, you know, when you lay your head on your pillow at night. But think about what George just said. You got $170,000 cash. Okay, we

pay off the credit cards. That leaves us with around 130 or so. You decide whether or not you're going to buy out these leases. Do you know what the buyout is for each of them?

>> I don't I think it's around 20 25 maybe if I'm speaking correctly. For each >> Would you guys want to keep those cars?

>> I I'd have to convince my wife, but I I don't care. >> But okay, let's say you did.

you want to keep your car, >> she doesn't care. >> Okay. So, let's say you spend $40,000 and you buy out these leases. Now, you're at 90. You've got $90,000 sitting

there after you've gotten out of these leases, after you've paid off some credit card debt. Is there anything else that we need to know of that needs to be paid off?

>> Um, no. I just gave you all the all that

we have. That's it. >> Okay. So, now you've got some actual cash. You sell the short-term rental because did I hear you say you bought it for 1.3 and it's worth 1.6.

No, no, no. A million35 and it's according to Zillow, it's worth a million65 now. >> Okay. A million. Okay. >> So, you'll probably take a little loss on that, but you'll gain three grand back in your life from not bleeding. And so, that's where I'm going. This is worth it. Don't have the sunk cost fallacy. It sounded like you didn't want to sell this Airbnb, though, this short-term rental.

>> I mean, I'll be honest with you. I do love the house. I wish, you know, my wife and I would love to be in Florida one day. I'd love to be in the house, but if it's if it's going to cause me stress every day, I'd rather do the smart thing than be than the uh the future, you know, goal thing.

>> And and let's let's talk about the why behind it because I think you had I like what you were thinking about, which is what are ways that I can build wealth for my family. I think that that's something that uh we all need to be doing as as parents and and as spouses.

But the way to do that, we did the largest study of millionaires and the large the best way to do that is to have a debt-free lifestyle, a budgeted lifestyle, a lifestyle that values having the right insuranceances, saving for emergencies, right? And then investing in your 401k regularly. That's how millionaires are built. They invest in their 401k regularly.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Again, I'm Jade if you're just joining us. And we have George Camel taking calls from Brandy who's in Huntsville, Alabama. Brandy, you are on the line.

How can George and I help you today? >> Hi guys. I have an interesting situation for you that we need help with. Um, my husband and I have been married 10 years, but when we got married, we had a backyard wedding.

It was a like a $3,500 wedding. It was just close family, friends, and we did not buy wedding rings.

and buy wedding rings on our 10th anniversary. And that is coming up. So,

we um, and there's there's more story to that, of course, like I mean, he proposed four times. It's me. I bring the George to the relationship and all the fun. >> You're the funny daddy.

>> I am the frugal one, I guess. And he's a free spirit, you know. >> But you you said no to his proposal like three other times.

>> No, I laughed hysterically the first time and then the second time I was like, I'm really not good at being married. I mean, we've been married, like I said, 10 years. That's like an Olympic gold medal for me. So, um, >> he deserves a medal for persistence. The guy just kept getting rejected time after time. >> His face. Wow. That's brutal.

>> He is really amazing. He is. And he's a great spouse. And I mean, we've made it right so far. So, and we have >> You both seem surprised, which I I find entertaining. You're both We both can't believe we're here. Okay. >> Well, congrats on the 10 years. And I love the idea of finally, you know, getting rings and and having a ceremony.

But there's probably a catch here. So, tell me, what is it? Well, we're trying to buy rings and go on a honeymoon.

We're not going to have a ceremony. We've already done that. But we are in the middle. >> Yes. And we are in the middle of baby step two. We've paid off um $63,000

worth of debt as of yesterday within the last 12 months.

>> Way to go. >> We Right. And we have 49,000 to go. So,

we were expecting to come to you guys for our debtree scream next spring.

>> Okay. And we want to delay by a month because my entire paycheck, like my base salary, I own my own business. He works for the state, but my entire base salary goes to paying debt every month. So, I get my paycheck and then I give it to other people and it hurts my feelings, right? So, I am super motivated to get finished, but we both feel that we need a break in order to celebrate this milestone for us. >> And and it only sets you back by one month. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yeah, it would pause the baby steps by one month. So, and we don't we don't know budgets. We haven't been shopping for rings because I'm terrified to go in there. I think I'm going to have sticker shock and see. >> So then I I don't think you know how much it's going to set you back because you don't know the numbers, right?

>> Well, we were thinking around $1,000 on rings total and then we would spend around 3,200 on a trip and we wanted to kind of set the budget at what we normally would pay towards debt a month.

So about 4,000.

>> Yeah, between four and five.

>> Okay. Um and you're saying if you continued this path, you could be debtree in what, nine or 10 months? I'm

probably around 12 because I work in education field. So I am home, we have six children. I'm home with our youngest children and there there are many of them. Um but I'm home with them in the summer. So I don't have as much income in the summer and we plan for that because I own my own business. So it's not a huge loss but we don't have as much of a margin during those two months. >> Got it. >> Understood. Um, I I'm going to tell you,

and again, this could be controversial, but I think that I would do this. Um, it's a one-mon setback and it's a milestone of 10 years. And it's actually funny that you're calling in because I called in to the Ramsay Show long before I worked here with the same question.

Uh, Sam and I had paid off a major portion of our debt. You've paid off more than half. I think we had paid off more than half of ours. and I we wanted to do a 10-year anniversary and it was going to set us back a couple of months.

Uh but we did it and Dave said that he would do it and we told him the budget and so I will now tell you the same thing because I think it's a really important thing and I think it's one of those things that comes around >> obviously every 10 years and this is your 10 year mark. I think the budget is reasonable and I like the fact that it's only a monthlong thing. It's it's potentially only sets you back a month.

And what I actually think will end up happening is if you wanted to kick it into high gear after this, you could probably make up the time by picking up, you know, cutting back here and there, picking up side hustles. Who knows?

You'll, you know, if if friends and family find out about this, you might get some monetary gifts. I don't know.

But I think things can happen that you really don't even have to sacrifice the month.

>> Okay. Yeah. And and I am I have a business that's doing very well. that's growing as time goes along. So, it will increase over time and also he's getting promotions at his job. So, we know that it will go up um eventually. That may take a while, right? But we really want to pause and celebrate.

>> So, you got married in the courthouse, no rings.

>> We had a backyard ceremony at at our house. Um and it was beautiful. It's creek. We have a creek in the backyard. It was a beautiful ceremony, but it was just close friends and family. Mhm. >> So, you guys have anything on your fingers right now?

>> No, we don't. >> You couldn't have got a silicone band off Amazon for like $10.

>> Well, he wears he I think he wears a silicone band and he has another band that he really likes and I feel I feel bad. I mean, it took me two years to change my name. Maybe I have a little bit of a commitment problem, but I really I love him. We our marriage is great and I think it's time for me to put a ringer on.

>> You want to know what? Okay, I'm going to go one deeper for you. And now this is your life. Do what you want.

I almost And I'll just be honest.

feel the money is better spent, and this is just me in comparison to the baby steps, I feel like the ring would be the thing that I'd want to spend more money on cuz you've never had one versus the honeymoon. That's just me. Um, what do I

know, George? What do you think? What do you think about the whole thing? You may not agree with me. >> Well, again, Brandy, you told you told me ahead of time, I'm the fuddy duddy frugal guy, and I love to dangle the carrot. I want to earn it. You I want to eat my vegetables before I get dessert.

And so personally, I'm gonna go, you know what? We're already in our 11th year of marriage. We're gonna celebrate before we're done with year 11. And that will put some onus on me to put some urgency on this and bust it to get this knocked out as fast as possible so that I can enjoy this.

>> Wait, it's not going to happen at the 10 year point. Is you're already past 10 years? >> No, we will be 10 years um coming up in the fall.

And he's like, "Absolutely not." We had an agreement. >> Well, wait a second. Wait, wait, wait a minute. I'm going to roll mine back a little bit because I thought that the whole point was we're doing it on the 10year anniversary, but this is not on the 10 year anniversary.

>> You're not doing it on the 10 year.

>> At the 10 year anniversary, we were that was when we planned on doing the ring and going on the trip, >> right? Can I be honest, Brandy? Here's what bothers me. You guys have been quote unquote planning this for 10 years and yet made zero actions to get us

here. You know what I mean? Like what happened over 10 years where you guys went, "Yeah, we said that, but we don't really believe it." And now all of a sudden it's an emergency. That's a good point. You know what I mean? What happened? >> Well, it's not an emergency. We did take our our savings that we put back for it and put it on our debt. >> Why aren't you in a better place financially than you were 10 years ago when you guys were broke?

>> Oh, well, you probably weren't thinking about it. >> A better place. >> Or were you? >> I'm sorry. >> Were you thinking about this 10 years ago? Probably not. Or were you?

>> Yeah, we agreed to do it when we got married. That was what we said at the time. >> That's what I'm wondering agreement.

>> If I had a 10year horizon to plan for this thing I knew was coming, I would make sure I was going to get there. And so that's where I'm trying to figure out where you guys went backwards, got into a hundred plus thousand consumer debt, which you guys are crushing it. I'm really proud of you. I'm not trying to knock you. I'm just trying to get to the mindset to make sure we've actually changed our behavior that got us here.

George makes an interesting point.

Listen, I will say this. If you told me it's a once in a-lifetime thing, it's 10 years and you were doing it on the 10 year anniversary, I'm like, "Yes, 10 years." But if you're telling me we're doing it on our 10-year anniversary and the plan was already do it to do it at year 11, it takes the cache. It's got no cache at that point. >> Yeah.

I mean, you're not going to regret it if you do it and you guys will still become debtree whether it's in May of 2020.

>> That's what I'm saying. Everything feels arbitrary cuz clearly our planning has not gone to plan.

>> I don't know.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Grace in Nebraska. My husband and I are about to pay off our last debt, which is a credit card, but I've read that doing this will lower our credit scores a lot. Should we slow down our payoff schedule or knock it out and let our credit score go down?

What a what a hilarious question. Which just points to the stupidity of the credit score. Number one, the confusion of it. >> There's confusion.

>> And number two, the if I do the thing I know is financially smart, I will be penalized. Well, I think a lot of people don't realize. Yeah, I don't think they know the truth, George. So, enlighten us.

>> Well, number one, a credit score is based off several factors. They're all weighted differently. How much debt? How long have you had the debt?

What's the types of debt? The variety, all of that, any new debts.

your debt will not lower your score, especially in the long term. Now, if you closed all the accounts, it might take a a dip because they like to see the open accounts. You know, the longer you've had them open, the better and all that.

But I would never say slow down your payoff schedule in case your score takes a hit cuz whatever hit does happen, it's going to be minimal and it's going to be temporary. Well, and you have to ask yourself the the long-term question on this is why are you doing this to begin with? because most of us out here, if

we're paying off our debt, we're usually doing it with a greater um intention in mind. And over here at Ramsey, the whole thought is you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So, if debt is the problem, if it is the the barrier to you building wealth, then what we say is, okay, then I I no longer borrow money anymore. And so me paying off my debt is essentially um equal with

me saying and I no longer care about credit because I no longer am going to borrow money. So they they're they're kind of synonymous. So my question to Grace would be what's the point of paying off the debt if if you plan on utilizing your credit score in the future, which means you would be borrowing on more debt. And by the way, there are a lot of people who don't carry any debt and still have a credit score.

They have open credit card accounts and they pay it off every month. I know those people exist because they always tell me how proud of themselves they are for paying off their balance every month and they have an 830 credit score and all of that. So, Grace, the real question is what kind of future are you looking for? Are you looking for a future where you keep taking on more debt and trying to pay it off perfectly to appease the credit score of gods?

Or do you just want to go, you know what, I'm done. We're going to cut up the card, close the accounts, 6 to 12 months later, your credit score will become indeterminable. That's what happened to me. Now, if you have a mortgage, your score will stay up there and it'll stay good.

As long as you make on-time payments for any debts in your life, your score is going to be fine.

>> No, it's Yeah. And again, who cares?

It's not going to stop you from doing any of the things you want to do because you're living a life without debt. And I'll let me just say this. Uh when Sam and I were in baby step two and uh paying off debt, I was a little um late

to acquies the credit card. It it took me some time to feel like I could let go of that. But what got me is I hated

paying it off every month cuz we'd spend a little bit on it and then pay it off and spend a little bit. I just got to the point where I was like, I don't like the feeling of this. Even if you're paying it off every month, it just doesn't feel good. It feels like >> you owe someone money. Exactly.

>> Cuz you do, even though you have the money to pay them, you still owe them for 30 days. And I think I just hated the feeling of that. >> And let me tell you, obviously people care about the credit score for a mortgage. That's the big one. That's understandable. >> But again, we've talked about it on the show. Getting a no score loan, manual underwriting. It's a very real possibility that, and Jade and I have both done it, and they didn't give it to us because we're Ramsay personalities.

They gave it to us because we had 12 months of rental history, on-time payments, tax returns, pay stubs,

>> manually underwrite it. >> If it makes you feel better, I did it before I was a Ramsey personality long before I even worked here. So, if that makes you feeling Yeah. Yeah. That's I'm

still not a big deal. Let's go to Kyle.

>> So, to answer your question, I would not slow down the payoff schedule, just become debtree. >> Go ahead and do it. And did you tell them it it usually takes six to 12 months? Yes. >> Okay. All right. Let's go to Kyle who's in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm sorry about your Celtics by the way. What's going on, Kyle?

>> Um, hey, so you you guys can hear me fine? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, so uh basically

we bought a house. Uh, I'm married and

uh my parents live with us in the house

and we had a a baby and we want to have

more. Uh but it it just seems like the

house is getting smaller and

um there's just a lot of tension it

feels like in the home. So, we want to know if it's possible

um and if we should look into it more to buy say a multif family like a three or four unit multif family and have my parents live in one of the units and rent the rest of them to to offset

um you know that other mortgage.

>> Where is this codependency coming from?

Um >> why can't they go rent their own place and you guys have your own place?

>> Right. So uh I'm an only child and I think what happened was most 90% of my

life was um them not doing well with

money and you know is that a me problem?

No. But in my mind, like with them

living with us, um I I know their

financial situation and I know they would be like borderline

homeless, I guess. >> But they make enough to rent cuz you said they'd be renting one of the units from you if you did a multif family.

>> Well, right. It would it would not be um

>> market as much as the average.

>> So basically, you're going to it's charity. you're going to let them rent for a couple hundred bucks and if the day comes where they can't pay because they have other bills or they have other priorities, they kind of know you're not going to evict them and put them on the street. >> How old are they?

>> Uh my dad's in his 70s and my mom is in

uh her 60s.

>> Are they both retired or they working still? >> Uh my dad's retired. My mom is going to retire in about a year.

>> And that's based on what?

because >> it's just what what she had told me.

>> Okay. But they don't have the money to actually retire. They're sort of needing you guys to float the gap,

>> right? >> When you say she's in her 60s, is she like 61 or is she like 69? How old is she? >> She is 65.

>> Okay. And same with your dad. Is he 70

or 7?

>> He's uh 75. They're about 10 years apart. 10 years apart. Um, and they don't bring in like what's their social security? You said you know their money. Tell tell us more about the money because that'll help us understand how dire this is because

it might not be as dire as maybe you stepping in and doing as much as you're trying to do.

>> Okay. Um, so for social security, I

don't which would be for for my dad, I don't really know what. I think it's probably maybe 1,500 to 2,000 something like that

a month. I mean, that's lying to me. I'm I'm not sure. >> Um, and so they they give us um we

wanted it to be a,000. They give us uh 600 a month towards the house that we're

living in now. >> What about your mom? What does she make?

She

probably makes I would guess around

maybe a little more than minimum wage.

>> Okay. Do you know what that looks like monthly for her?

>> Um >> I'm sorry. I thought that you knew the numbers. I I I thought I heard you say that you did know the numbers. Um >> we know that they can only afford 600 bucks a month for rent.

I grew up know like just knowing like how they were struggling financially.

>> And what do you attribute that to? Is it just lack of financial literacy? They or they never secured careers like where

what's happening there? Because what I'm seeing is something that seems like it's gone on for quite some time. And I'm just worried that you know if you if you want to put this on your plate and say this is just something I'm willing to fund, that's your bag and you're allowed to do that.

What I would not do is continue to take on more debt in order to fund that. I think that this is a cart that you've hitched your >> and you need to get out of mortgage. You need to refinance on your own. And if you can't qualify, that tells me you guys need to go somewhere you can afford and get them off of here. They might need to go to senior HUD housing. And that's the reality of the situation. If you can't have them living with you guys,

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All righty then. Jake is in Boston, Massachusetts again. What's going on, Jake?

Jake, are you there?

>> We lost him. >> All right. Well, so close. >> We can go to someone else. We can go to Tom in Hartford, Connecticut. Tom, are you there? Hey. Hey. How are you >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> Good. Good. So, just for context, I'm not sure how much you guys know, a little bit while back, about four months ago, I decided to exit my previous business. Um, that year we did about 500,000 uh in total revenue. Um, the

reason why I left um was just a partnership dynamic primarily for autonomy, control, independence, and really just alignment issues. Um, looking back, I'm about four months into my new endeavor, and you know, I'm in a

cleaning space now, like house cleaning, and I'm feeling a good amount of regret and kind of, did I make the right choice? Did I not make the right choice?

And kind of just unsure about things, um, looking back in my previous business. Um, and they're on track to do, you know, really, really well this year. Looking to get some guidance and, uh, your guys thoughts.

>> I mean, can you go back? Is it something that you could go back to if you wanted to, or are we just crying over a spilled milk? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's uh it might be considered crying over spilled milk. I think that's one of the things that I'm trying to uh understand. Um but the biggest thing is uh I could go back because they're they're uh my current one of them was uh just like really one of my best friends and then other business partner was uh my cousin too.

So, and it was just like one of those kind of like missionary businesses, you know, that like I just love to my core.

And I think with the contrast of my current business, um I'm just kind of seeing things, you know, hindsight now.

Why did you what what you explained a little bit about why you left, but what was really the the straw that broke the camel's back? Give us a clear example of what was happening. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, there's seasons in the business where you're going once you're going daily from my perspective, um with the new seasons of the business, you start to pick up new responsibilities and you kind of transition into new roles, right?

And so as we started to transition into new roles, I looked at where I was heading um and then where my other business partners were heading and they were taking on more ownership responsibilities and I was taking on more employee responsibilities. And so in the long scheme in the long scheme of things I was like in my mind at that time like when we had that conversation I was like oh heard I'm just going to be an employee for the rest of the time here. Like that's not what I want.

And of course there's like a whole bunch of other details. Do you feel like you got too hotaded about it? Like were you too emotional about it? Is that >> No. I made that decision. Yeah. Like we

but like eight months before that I started to kind of have the thoughts of like understanding that leaving could be a possibility just kind of based on the trajectory of things >> and I started to to come like to be at acceptance with that. And when it when it became like crystal clear that like most likely my future responsibilities in the business would have just been a employee, it was very clear to me and I was like, "Okay, yeah." I felt very neutral about it.

>> Exactly. Exactly. So, I guess it's uh I

guess it's more so >> So, are you going back for money at that point of just like it's more sustainable and I enjoy the work? >> Yeah. Because like I think what the mistake that I made and I think David Ramsey was just in my uh thinking about it a lot in my mind uh was I kind of left without a financial plan. Like I left without u I'm very lucky like I'm in a spot where I don't have any debt.

I don't have any like um I have a good amount of savings. I'm getting an exit uh paycheck from the business for the equity that I did own. So I'm not in a bad spot.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So >> how much was the equity?

>> Equity was 50%. So you got 250 250,000.

>> No, no, no, no. So yeah, with how we base it, um the exit was the whole exit's going to be about 50,000 um like payout wise. >> Um >> um and then I have I have I have savings uh too that I currently have.

>> And and so I I just want to make sure I have this straight in my mind. So the reason you would go back is you miss the work. >> That's and it would be the employee stuff that you did not want to do before. you would now you've decided the thing I did not want to do before I actually now miss it >> those exact tasks and I would like to go back and do those exact tasks >> you know I think it's I think I made a mistake right and I think in when I first made the decision I wanted ownership responsibilities but now looking at it in hindsight like I understand how hard it is to make it in business right like before I had another person to rely on and another person to cope with and it was it was so much different you know and >> so you're willing to just go back as an employee not as an owner You don't want to buy in anymore.

You just want to be an employee. >> No, I think I but like No, I do I would want to go back as an owner. So, it's like it is different. But I >> Why wouldn't you just start your own business in that same area?

Like you've done it before. Why wouldn't >> why wouldn't you do it again?

>> It was a sports videography business.

>> Okay. So, if you started your own business today, what would you do >> left to your own devices?

So, I would buy a camera and then I would start filming free social media content for sports team. >> No, I'm saying so you'd want to go into sports videography if you could choose any job in the world today or any business.

>> I So, I I did start another business after that. I started a house cleaning.

>> Yeah. But you don't like that. So, I'm saying what do you actually want to do versus Well, you're like going back to your ex because it's comfortable. And I'm like, well, the same reasons you left your ex are the same reasons not going to work.

You're going to go back. you're going to become resentful as you see them grow the business while your income doesn't grow along with it while you're dealing with employees which is not your passion according to what you told us earlier. So I'm just worried we're going to make the same mistake twice. >> Was it a was it a friendly exit or was it drama-filled?

>> Yeah.

Yeah. Like we're we're good. Obviously, you know, it's like, you know, serious conversations. Uh but no, we're we're totally good. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 25.

>> Okay. And let I just want to play this out. So, it sound I I feel like you're

telling me kind of two stories and I just it might just be cuz we're talking and it's just a short period of time, but on the one hand, it kind of sounds like I made a rash decision. I I'm I made a bad choice and I want to go back on it, which we've all made mistakes.

We've said things we, you know, we've all done that, so I can understand that. But then another side of you makes it seem like, no, I I really put thought into this. This was a long time coming and I finally just pulled the trigger.

So >> yeah, >> tell me which one is it. Was it something that you really spent a lot a lot of time thinking about and you finally pulled the trigger or was it something that you feel like you had a rash of emotion and you you kind of spoke too soon and now you regret it?

Which one is it? >> Yeah. So I mean I don't I don't think it's like a I think it's a mixture of things. Um I don't know if that answers it correctly. >> It doesn't. And I and that's what I want to get to. I think you have to I don't think you have clarity.

>> And I don't think you can do anything until you have clarity. I think right now, and this is again, Tom, we've only chatted a few minutes, >> but it sounds like you went away from

this job in whatever capacity, you started your own thing, and it looks like you're looking back like a pillar of salt and you're seeing things over there popping off and doing really great, and you're feeling remorse because your current thing has not grown

to scale yet. And that's okay.

>> What I don't want you to go is look back at the thing that you said, "Nah, that's not for me." And just because it's doing well and doing amazing, suddenly uh you're questioning, let let me tell you a story. I played college volleyball and I played for two years and it wasn't it was a toxic situation for me and it was time it was time for me to stop playing.

And so the next year when I was invited back to the team, I said, "No, thank you. I'm not going to come back." That year they won championships and did really amazing. The two years I played, we had two losing seasons. For a moment, I was like, "Dang it." Like, "This is a regret.

that I made a bad choice, but I made the choice I needed to make for me cuz I was pursuing music and it was the right choice for me. Even though they were doing amazing, even though Do you see what I'm saying? Just because somebody else is doing great doesn't mean you did the wrong choice. And I just think you need to I'm not saying we're the same, but I am saying there's >> No, I get it.

>> Do you know what I mean? >> Um, >> yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> I don't think you have clarity either way.

If you hang on the line, we'll send you the get clear career assessment and that will really show you where your talent is, where your passion is, where the mission that you want to uh see impact in. All that's going to help you get clarity. And it may be, man, I really just want to I want to be the boss.

That's really the heart of it. No matter what the thing is. Or it might be sports. And now you can go work for someone else doing something, making more with a bigger ceiling. I just don't want you to jump back to the old comfortable thing just because you thought the grass was greener on the other side. >> Yeah, this is tough. This is tough.

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Our

Ramsey Show scripture and quote of the day, Proverbs 18:15 says, "The heart of discerning, the heart of discerning acquires knowledge, for the ears of the wise seek it out." Thomas Saul said, "You don't have to listen to anybody.

You can learn everything from your own personal experience. Of course, you will be at least 50 years old by that time.

By the time you know what you need to know at 25. Oo, that's deep, Thomas.

>> Okay. So, it was a negative cell. It >> It's a negative cell. >> It was the tone of Yeah, sure. You don't have to listen to anybody. You could learn on your own in 50 years or you could get wisdom from other people and learn it half the time. Yeah. >> Learn at 25. That's good.

>> Thomas, I think you could have said that in a cleaner way.

>> Well, you know, it's old timey. You got to make things more complex. >> I know. I had to really turn my brain off. Go to Mark Twain if you want simple want brevity. >> That's true. Jake is in Boston, Massachusetts. Jake, you're back. How can we help? >> I am back. Sorry about that.

>> That's all right.

>> I found you guys recently on social media, so figured I would would reach out. I guess let me give you some background information before I ask the question that might be helpful. >> Sure. >> So, I got 170K in debt. 150 of that is

student loans. 20 of it is for my truck.

Um, I got 150k saved right now just literally sitting in a bank account doing nothing. And I guess my overarching question is should I pay off my loans, call it in like in one check

or you know over the next few months or so or uh over the course of a few years

uh make the minimum payments and really don't even worry about it. Uh really just you know looking for some guidance at the minimum. You know >> I I missed what you said you have saved.

How much did you say you have saved?

>> 150. >> Cool. >> Okay. So, the whole amount of the student loans.

>> Uh, no. I mean, a little a little bit less. >> Um, you tell me what you think the benefit would be to kind of pedaling

this out and just making minimum payments. Tell me what you think the good part of that is. That way, it'll help me craft my answer for you.

>> Sure. I think mainly uh just being able to keep building the nest egg eventually, you know, buy a home hopefully soon. And um look, I know it's

bad to let debt pile up, but you know,

um I'm 25. I feel like I'm doing all right. The career is on a good track.

>> What do you do? Um >> I work in sales for, you know, in the fintech space. >> Oh, nice. So, how much are you making a year now? >> Uh I made 220 last year. I should land around like 250 this year if I I have all my quotas and everything. >> Way to go. So, let's just play out the scenario where you have 150 saved. You

knock out your student loans and you got the truck left. You knock that out in a maybe two 3 months. Is that realistic?

>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That that could be a realistic thing. >> Now, look where you are at. You freed up all of those payments, which if you added up all of the payments for the student loans and the truck, where are we at per month?

um close to like two grand call it.

>> Okay, so now we freed up two grand on top of our amazing income and we have no debt. Now we can stack up savings real quick for an emergency fund and then be investing 15% of our income.

>> Yeah. Which is pretty wild when I look at that. So, if you're talking about wealth building a nest egg, your best path is to get out of debt as fast as you can to free up your income, which is your greatest wealth building tool to then invest from 25 to 65. 40 years of

compound growth, making what you're making, even at 15% put away, you're going to be a multi multi multi multi-millionaire, doing nothing else.

>> And I just did some fun math because I love to see the number. I mean, you're 25 today. if we did this till 59 and a half, which is when you're likely going to want to get out some of that money.

I'm assuming you have zero in investments now, but I I I have a feeling that's not true. Uh but if you just started putting 15% away, uh that's

$15 million at age 60.

>> 30 million at 66 or 67.

>> Yeah, that's really good. >> That's what happens when you have the full power of your your income. And that's assuming I mean that's assuming you'll never get a raise. That's assuming you're not, you know what I'm saying, ever investing above 15%, which I'm sure that you will. So,

all of that to say, I think this is a pretty >> And then the other side of this is we don't know what life's going to throw at you. You're going to get married, you going to have a kid, will it be a job loss, a health scare? And so, we're you're sort of assuming that, yeah, I can float these payments just fine. I make great money.

You're very successful, especially at your age. And so, yeah, you could out earn your stupidity for a while and just hang on to debt, get more debt if you want, get a bigger truck, nicer car. That's the American way.

>> I think for me it's like, you know, I've saved this over the course of uh, you know, three, four years, and >> then I would have zero one day, you know, when you wake up. So, that that >> Well, you have zero. Now, let's let's do real >> on the balance sheet. If you were running a business, you would find that you are in the hole. >> Yeah, you're 20,000 in the hole right now. You don't have 150,000.

>> Yeah, right. >> It's assets minus liabilities. What you own minus what you owe. That's your net worth.

And I want to see your net worth as the scoreboard and not what's in a savings account while the interest piles up. Now, if you want to give the Naviant people some new furniture in their office building, let the executive team take a nice vacation, you can be a part of that if you want to support it. I'd rather see you build wealth instead, though. >> I think you'll do the right thing with that, Jake.

Not to say that money is just math. It there's more to it. There's the behavior, there's the numbers, and there's the emotions of it. And what Jake is getting at is the emotion of I

feel. >> You're right. And you work too hard to have 150 grand sitting around.

>> Yeah, that's right. And it and it's going to feel different when you wake up in the morning and that number that you're used to seeing sitting in your Ally or sitting in your Fair Winds account is not there. You're going to be like, >> but you're talking 18 months. He could save that back up if he had no payments in his life.

That's right. As a single 25-year-old, >> but what it is what's it what it's forcing him to do is feel the weight of his actual debt. As long as that 150,000 is sitting in savings, he doesn't really feel the weight of it. But once he transfers that over and actually pays it off, he's going to go, "Oh, that was a lot of debt.

I did need to get rid of that.

mature thing to do. A very mature thing to do to let yourself feel it, if you will. All right, George. Do you think we can get to Parker? Let's get to Parker.

>> Let's do it. All right, Parker on line three. We're up against the clock, my guy. So, let us have it.

>> Yes, sir. So, me and my wife are now

transitioning to single income. Um she's going to nursing school soon. We have about $11,900 in debt. Um, which is just my car and a

credit card. We paid off her car, a credit card, and some of my miscellaneous debt prior to going to single income. >> Mhm. >> Um, and we have around $11,000 in the saving. Um, trying to figure out how to navigate that debt um sooner than later and before she finishes nursing school.

>> What's stopping you from just knocking it out? I mean, next month you'll have enough saved up that you could knock out the debt and still have a,000 2,000 bucks left over, right?

>> Yes. So, I mean, the minimum payment on

the card, um, which I owe, 1500 on is

about $40, but it's at 24% interest. And

>> why does minimum payment?

>> Um, well, yeah, correct.

>> I mean, to your point, it's at a super high interest rate. You need to knock that thing out and get it out of your life. Right. >> They'd make the minimum payment a dollar if they could let all the money just pile up in interest.

>> Correct. >> So, I would just go, man, if you want to be free and you want to be able to survive on single income, having less payments in your life is better. Would you agree? >> Yes, sir. >> And you can build up that savings. How quickly? How much could you put away if you didn't have any of these payments in your life plus the margin you have currently with your income?

If we if we

probably around like 1,500 a month, probably a little bit more. >> Great. So now doing the math, we're going okay talking 6 months, 7 months.

>> Mhm. >> And you're back to where you are, but with no debt. >> Yes, sir.

>> And if you just keep it that way, you'll be able to survive off this income. What is your What is your income now as a house? Uh, so I make around 60. Um, I'm

in the military, so it's around 60.

>> Okay, great. So now we can do a budget based on our 60 grand with no payments and make the sacrifices needed so that she can go to nursing school and you can cash flow it. That's a really important part of this is making sure we're not going further into debt while trying to pay debt off. That's whack-a-ole.

>> Yeah. And and the the thing I want you to just remember, Parker, is wealthy people ha ask how much. Poor people ask how much per month. And that goes both ways.

So if you're so focused on, oh, the monthly payment is only $40. I can do that. You need to be focused on the entire balance of the debt. That's when again, you feel the weight of it and you feel the need to pay it off because you do.

All right, George, we had a great time hosting. Thanks for hanging out with us, guys.

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## 93. Is the American Dream Officially Dead? w/ @BenShapiro


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:16 |

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[Music]

you met St up trouble a long time there has now been created in the United States a permission structure for uselessness this sort of idea that you can take all the right actions and that there is no correlation between that and success is such a lie and it's a malicious lie my plan is to not retire

are you allowed to say that I said that one time I got just excoriated by people so I wasn't saying that you can never retire you have to be 9-year-old working in a salt mne Ben hates old people my wife hates it when this happens a home argument by the way she'll be like we're not in a YouTube video you need to stop this right now yeah how do

you argue with Ben Shapiro at home this does make me angry I think politicians on all sides of the aisle have an interest in ly the American people it kind of goes with this whole idea of that the American dream is dead this hopelessness that is pervading out there you think we're done Ben Shapiro I'm proud of you you are blowing up man you're K you owning

it you're a breath of fresh air in the talk radio world yeah I get I get to skim the cream right I go down to to Florida and I hang out with my very small team over there and Jeremy and Caleb do the hard work of running the Daily Business and then I ask them hard questions and and they get angry at me because I'm not the one who's actually doing

it and and that's kind of how the company operates and so far so good you come in flip the table just just continually upsetting Jeremy and Caleb that might be a good hobby that might be that might be good their friends are wonderful It's a Wonderful company and we're glad to have them uh in the Nashville Community we share ideas back and forth and U concerns back

and forth we had a great uh discussion about cancel culture one time all of us got together and learn some things from each other on how to protect and how to do that stuff but before we dive into some subjects that you've been talking about and that we share in common um we share something else in common I learned from Jeremy confirmed it with you later that uh Rabbi Daniel lapen my good friend

I I

met him because I read his book Thou shalt Prosper uh for those of you that don't know he's an Orthodox Jewish rabbi and this is one of my favorite books on money and economics um definitely in the top 10 of books I've ever read on the subject and it's why Jewish people have a t an inordinate statistical tendency to prosper above the population but anyway aside from that Rabbi Lapin plays a big part in your personal story yeah

so uh Rabbi Lapin was the rabbi of a SCH was called the SCH on Venice Beach a synagogue on Venice Beach my parents had become you know slightly more Orthodox and then they were kind of getting drawn more toward Orthodoxy and they really became Orthodox with Rabbi Lapin they they would drive down to Venice every weekend every every Shabbat you're not supposed to drive but that's the synagogue

they would go to and um he would talk he's very charismatic guy Rabbi Lapin and the community really started to grow and they ended up because of that moving into a Jewish community that was closer to where we lived and I would say that he played a very heavy role in my parents becoming Orthodox in the first place for those of you to translate my interpretation of that would be that

they were more culturally Jewish before and Orthodox is as they became U much more dialed in on

the book keeping kosher and other

serious their with God yeah for sure I mean when you become Orthodox it really is about the practice so Judaism is very Aristotelian Judaism is is sort of the idea that that the the more things you do the closer you get to God so it's a very act-based religion and Rabbi Lapin talks about this a lot um that the way that you become a virtuous person as Aristotle suggests is who do virtuous things that's how

you kind of cultivate virtue in in yourself and Judaism really believes that the M vote the Commandments that's what God gave those to us for right it's not that they have some sort of magical impact on the universe there are some Mystics who think that but but the real kind of hard-nosed work of doing the thing every day is a reminder not only that you're subject to God's rules

but also cultivate virtue in in your life and so

what you're doing when you say a blessing like I just had some water and you can see me kind of mutter to myself I'm saying a blessing before I have the water has to remind me that you know God is the one who who gives the water and so you know gratitude right that's how you cultivate the virtue of gratitude and that that kind of stuff is happening all

the time we have hundreds of Commandments that we keep those aren't incumbent on people who are not Jewish but when you become Orthodox what you do is you accept a system where you basically say there's a bunch of rules that aren't set by me and that make my life better and my community better and that Draw Me Closer to to those virtues draw draw me closer to God through my behavior

and recognizing that there's a system of success in the world that that God has created that I mean God's pretty clear in the Old Testament that there is a correlation between you following the Commandments and you experiencing success in your life and if you're a Christian obviously many of those Commandments are no longer obligatory on you because of the new Testament if you're Jewish they they still are according to us anyway

and and so what that means is that it's not as it's not Prosperity Gospel it's not if you do everything right you know money will descend upon you but as a general rule if you do things right there's a much better chance you're going to have success exactly cause an effect if you do these things you'll be blessed you do these things shall be cursed exactly uh

the speech that uh God gave through Moses right before the children cross the Jordan these are the blessings these are the cursings you do this and some of them are things that we talk about borrowing as an example if you want to be cursed you'll be a borrower if you want to be blessed you'll be a lender you know and uh those things fit right into that

so very very cool I'm curious go ahead I'm just curious growing up in California what was money like in in your house growing up did your parents you know were they were they wealthy was it like Hey we're starting from ground zero here so my my parents were I would say very middle class so I I grew up in a a that's kind of popular to say right now yeah exactly exactly

but you actually asked me that question so you didn't ask me out infl then I started talking about middle CL I grew up in a middle class house yeah exactly we we grew up in a two bedroom 1100 foot house

in Burbank California I had three sisters so I shared a room with with all of my siblings until I was 11 we had one bathroom for six people you know fairly small house my mom was a secretary at a TV company my dad was a composer which means that you know he was playing piano in a restaurant because that's that's how it works in in California if you're not actually

you know a successful film composer then just like everybody in California who has a script you end up a barista if you are if my dad is a is a a

really really good jazz pianist he's playing clubs from the time he was 14 years old and so he was playing in a restaurant on Mondays and Tuesday nights so a lot of my childhood I remember sitting at the restaurant watching him play piano at the restaurant and be excited when somebody dropped like a $10 bill in the tip jar and you know as we got older we moved into a slightly bigger house

we ended up in 2 2400 foot house with with four bedrooms when I was 11 and that's where my parents were up until we all moved to Florida a few years ago so we kind of went from you I'd say middle lower middle class to middle class to upper middle class certainly we were never Rich uh and your law degree is from Harvard did you get a free ride uh no

I I paid that one wow

yeah I was I was already writing by that point right so I I'd already written some books I'd already you know written some articles so you had the ability of cash flowing yeah I had some cash flow 20 years old when you were at Harvard Law yeah I I I started when I was 20 yeah because I started UCLA when I was 16 so when I when

I went to Harvard I mean the the truth is that that that's a good bet for a for a loan officer right you're giving a loan to somebody who's going to Harvard law chance of high income from Harvard Law very good right I mean educational loan business is is a scam but not if you're getting a degree from Harvard law where everybody's going to go work for a big Law Firm for

the first couple of years I worked at a big Law Firm for about eight months decided I hated it and and quit and it was actually really funny so you knew that you wanted to lean into that kind of media side at a young age yeah I was I was a nationally syndicated columnist when I was 17 so when I when I went to when I went to college

when I was 16 I I thought that I was going to double major in music and genetic science because I was a virtuosic viol at the time you can find videos of on YouTube of me playing when I'm 11 years old at Big Banquets and stuff like that I was a much cuter kid and uh and then you know I go to UCLA I pick up the UCLA daily Bruin there's an article in

there comparing Ariel Chiron then the prime minister of Israel to adman the Nazi and I walked into the office and I said can I write a counter to that and they said sure and that morphed into a regular column there I then applied cold to Creator Syndicate which was a syndicator for a bunch of different columnists left and right and they didn't know my age and they said sure

they picked me up my parents had to sign the contract because I wasn't of legal agent you a minor at that point I was a minor and so I I started writing a syndicated of com when I was 17 my first book came out when I was 20 when I was graduating from from UCLA was called brainwashed how universities indoctrinate America's youth my second book came out while

I was at Harvard Law and it was titled porn generation how social liberalism is corrupting our future that was 2005 you miss St up trouble a long time yeah I've been in this for a while I I'm 40 but I've been in this for you know 23 years so it's

I've been doing this for for for quite a while so when I went to Harvard Law you know that that was a good bet even though I I knew the chances of me practicing law long term were pretty bad and the truth is that's also true pretty much everybody at Harvard Law 50% of people in my Harvard Law class aren't in law at all most of them went on to start businesses you know become investors and and and that sort of thing very cool so I'm 64 my plan is to not retire I plan

to stay on the microphone are you allowed to say that I said that one time I got excoriated by people well that's what I wanted to bring up that's what I wanted to bring up you said it's saying that we have ra haven't raised the retirement age in the US I think there's two parts to this argument um uh there's

a social security math problem of the arbitrary age 65 thing but there's also

then the philosophy of what is

retirement and why did we create this idea that we're we work at something we hate long enough and hard enough that we don't have to do anything and that that's that seems to be counterproductive it doesn't seem to be a good spiritual walk to me it doesn't seem to be good emotionally balanced to me you know I can't find retirement in the Bible and and I'm not condemning someone who is retiring

but philosophically I want to talk about retirement or we do and also I want to talk about this idea it's you know the end of that quote from you is it's not fiscally sustainable you know to quit at 65 when

you've got a you know a pretty good likelihood if you make it to 65 statistically you're probably going to be 90 so you got you know those numbers start to be screwy with Social Security yep I mean so as you say there's two arguments there the one I think I got hit more on was the virtal argument that you were making about the virtue of work and and how it's not good to have a mentality at 65 that you're basically going to and when I said retirement what I meant was like actual retirement like go sit on a beach somewhere move down to the Villages drink at 3 p.m.

know on The Virtue Point what I see is it increasingly depressed America because people don't value work in the way that I think that work ought to be valued and a country that has set up an expectation that work itself is somehow bad and unfulfilling and and that's a weird thing particularly in an age when you're not working at a loom right you're not working in the coal mines typically

I mean there are people who obviously are but but the reality is the vast majority of people who are who are you know aching for retirement are are sitting at a keyboard right now at least a huge number of them are vast majority a huge number of them are and so this idea that like what you're really straining for is 25 years of sitting on

a beach like I I just don't know where the virtue is in that vacation's great I love it but there's a reason vacation ain't a full-time job and you know lack of involvement in your community lack of involvement in your family life and again jobs don't have to be you know going working home the human race better yes EXA engage in something my my sister's a stay-at-home mom she's making

the human race better by sitting home and homeschooling her kids and and making sure that everything's my wife the doctor right after she had the last baby she dropped out of the workforce and is taking care of the baby and eventually she'll probably go back in part-time you know that she's working right that that that is a form of work the point that I was making is that

we as a society have degraded work and when you have government programs that are designed to grade work that basically say work hard and then we'll take care of you the rest of your life and you never have to work again that seeing work in I think a perverse way and then obviously you have the fiscally unsustainable reality that is social a giant pyramid scheme with an aging population where everyone knows

and every politician lies about it they they all lie everyone knows we're going to have to radically increase taxes or radically reduce benefits in the next few years everyone knows this radically increase debt yes right I mean and they keep saying they're going to grow their way out of it but I there is a rat and the snake mathematically yes there really is that's scary so what are what are your thoughts about

the extreme side of that the financial independent retire early the people who say hey at 45 I want to be work optional and I'm going to have enough money piled up that I can leave this job that I hate I mean saying that you want to leave the job you hate for another thing I think is is fine I mean if you hate your job and you want to find a better job or

you want to find a better thing to do with your life that's fine but I'll tell you I I have a lot of friends who are billionaires and many of them became billionaires in the tech world at the age of 35 40 right they sold their companies they made a ton of money and then they quote unquote retired and they are just itching you

can see them itching they want to start a new thing yeah I mean they go in they start new things they whether it's charity work or whether it's starting a new business business people have an urge to create and creators particularly have an urge to create I think When God says at the beginning of Genesis that that we're Made In His Image one of the things that makes us like God is our creative capacity right

the only thing that God's done in the Bible to that point is create everything so it says that humans are made in God's image we're the only creature really that has the ability to independently create and so when you stop that creative process when you stop creating which is really a form of building then you lose something in yourself and I think that's a real negative for

the soul you know Rabbi taught me something else on that that was interesting um that the Hebrew word for worship and is very similar or almost

exactly the same word for workship MH to

work is a form of worship and in the New Testament we would say to do your work as unto the Lord but but it's this idea that working in something that you were designed the way you were designed to do the way you were knit in your mother's womb the way you were train up a child and the way he should go and when he's old he'll not depart from

it and the way he has bent the Old King James says and the way the child has been train up a child that the way they're designed and let them go in that that that is a form of worship I remember the uh I was just in Scotland and at St Andrews where they shot the uh the scene the opening scene from Chariots of Fire and one of

the lines in there was he said when I run I feel God's pleasure yeah it's a form of work can be a form of worship when you and it's not workaholism it's not some kind of weird spiritual thing by the way we worked in the garden right I mean like the the actual verse that talks about what Adam is tasked with doing in the garden it uses

the the the verb is is laod right is to is to work it says that you have to actually aode you have to work and then it says andore and to guard right so you're there to work and you're to guard what what what kind of work is there to do in the garden right it's the Garden of Eden everything is perfect everything's wonderful right you got trees with fruit

you got animals you can name everything is awesome and the idea is that even in the Garden of Eden it's not going to be a Garden of Eden unless you have a task people have to have a thing to do and we're a board so and you can see us tearing ourselves apart because we don't have a thing to do I think it increases anxiety and all all

the other things as well I think we saw some of that during the uh the pandemic we told people they weren't essential uh it creates a different kind of mental illness then because there's a uh this idea that I'm not worthy to worship I'm not worthy to do those things and U you

know I raised a couple daughters and a son that that are all married off now and uh we had all dad jokes for the raising the teenage girls is like you know before Adam got a woman he got work so if you're going to come date my daughter you need to be talking about having a job or having a career I just I just saw Professor Scott Galloway mentioned that what women are looking for in a man is

the ability to provide in the future psychologically that's what they're actually looking for and I think what we're seeing is a lot of people who are living at home in their 30s who don't have a job they love to do

and their growth is stunted because of that it seems to be hurting culture all around there's probably a deeper problem when it starts with education when we tell people get good grades do the homework go to college get a degree then do a job for 40 years do you think that's part of the issue well I I think that we are all in this sort of post 50s mindset where

we think of of the way that work was in the 50s and we think that that is sort of the ideal of how work ought to be which is very weird because the truth is that many of the jobs in the 50s are are jobs that nobody would want to do we talk about the idea that you worked at like GM at a factory for 30 years

and then got a gold watch doing rivets okay how many people do you see in the modern world who want to stand over a machine doing rivets that's not a thing the 1950s are an outlier in human history they're they're an outlier because basically the rest of the world had been completely destroyed and the only industrial superpower on Earth that had not been completely destroyed was the United States which meant that

we could essentially have one person in the house one person who is working full-time making a great wage doing a repetitive mechanical task and that ended up collapsing in the 1960s and70s which is why you see America's debt problem start to explode in the 1960s and the 1970s but if you go back before that the reality is that everybody was a Cooperative unit in the family in terms of work

I mean you go back far enough and you go back to a farm and everybody's working the time right if you go back to Proverbs there's an entire section of Proverbs where it describes the ideal woman right we sing it every Friday night it's called right it's it's the the woman of Valor and that that that whole section of Proverbs is all about how what the woman does

it talks about her starting a business it talks about her you know importing Goods it's like it sounds like she started a corporation is what it sounds like the woman of Valor and so I think that you know that that vision of of what life is is that like you just go into the job and you stay at the job for 30 years that's not how the market really historically works worked

and it's not how the market works right now and and I think our educational system is not designed for that it was designed to turn out people who are supposed to fit in sort of particular tasks I see with my son and my son is a sort of heterodox thinker he's eight years old he is you know good at math he can't sit still cuz he's an 8-year-old boy

and what I see is that the stuff that he's really interested in he's really interested in and what a good educational system would do and is what we try and do at home with him is dig into the stuff he's really interested in and use that as a gateway to learn the things that he's going to need to do you know in the world in the way

he was bent exactly and and instead what we try to do is bend the kid to fit the to fit the the hole in the market and that seems you know it enervates it makes people feel uncomfortable and angry because they feel as though they're they're being turned away from the thing they want to do in favor of the thing that quote unquote Society wants them to do

and and that's I don't think it's necessary what do you see about the American dream what's your feeling about that as because you're doing a whole lot of politics right now that's what you do obviously but I mean at this moment when we're taping this you'rea in stumping going state to state working with uh the the politicians out there the thing that we've been running into and pushing back against

the in the wealth building side that this idea that the American dream is dead this hopelessness that is pervading out there you think we're done no and I don't think remotely done I think that that the ingratitude that it demonstrates to suggest that the American dream is dead in a time of unique prosperity in human history where the poorest people in our society have the best Technologies available to them literally in human history where

you have a magic machine in your pocket that you dial you hit a button and a good arrives at your door for a cheap price inside of 24 hours and you're sitting there going the dream is dead I mean we have these things that are time machines they're called airplanes fly to other places on Earth and spend like 5 minutes there and you realize just how much

the American dream is not dead and I think that politicians on all sides of the aisle this this this does make me angry I think politicians on all sides of the aisle have an interest in lying to the American people about this because there's this mentality that if I tell you that the American dream is dead then only I can save you only I have the ability to come

and rescue you from this crisis that has been created for you when the reality is the steps toward success in a free Society are the same as they always were take responsible action go get an education go get a job make smart financial decisions make a smart decision about your family you know the entire entertainment arena is geared towards stories of people overcoming obstacles that are very often made by them

you know the reality is you know when people say what's your life story my my life story is that I had the ultimate privilege two amazing parents and then I made a series of what I think are rational calculated decisions and it worked out well that's my there's not all that much that's like super fascinating about that the there are obstacles you have to overcome along the way things that

you don't expect but this sort of idea that you can take all the right actions and that there is no correlation between that and success is such a lie and it's a malicious lie and it teaches people not to take the actions it enervates them it makes them feel like if I if I do all the right things there's no point to so what's the point of doing

because doing the right thing is actually harder than doing the wrong thing and I think politicians lie about this all the damn time I think it's ugly I think it's hideous I I think that it kills the American Spirit the American people are a people of pioneers that's what we are that's why we all like westerns right Pion we're pioneering people were a bunch of people who came from Europe or from or from Asia or from wherever

but at the very beginning from Europe get away from restrictions to get away from restrictions into a place that was far less secure right into a continent that was totally uncultivated and where you had the chance of being killed by disease or the environment or or the natives at at any moment and and then

that wasn't enough they started Crossing mountains to go to more of these uncultivated places and facing more hardships and more stresses and then you have new waves of of immigrants who are coming from more secure places where there is a guarantee of of you being able to grow up where your parents grew up and going to a place where you don't speak the language where you don't know anything

and I think that's the story of virtually everybody who's in the United States right now or at least huge percentages of it like have parents or grandparents or great-grandparents who at some point abandoned the place where they were more secure to come to a place where they were far less secure for the opportunity are you telling me that my kids have less opportunity in America today in 2024 than my great-grandparents did

when they showed up in like 1907 not speaking a word of English and get off the boat and by the way no real welfare programs no giant social safety net and the idea was you learn English and you do the work and then you will get ahead this arrogance that we are we are the most victimized generation like what the what are you even saying what are

you talking about by what metric are you the most victimized generation that sounds harsh because people kind of cherish that sense of victimization because it throws the responsibility on somebody else but you know first first law of of good management is look in the mirror not through the window right first law is if there's a problem and you look through the window at the thing that that is responsible for

the thing that's making you miserable you're not going to solve the problem if you look in the mirror even if it's true that you can't solve it if you look in the mirror you better take the steps to at least try to solve it first control the controllable exactly yeah that's what I've seen most people are Focus ing on all the things they can't control and that's why they're

so desperate for that politician to fix their life and also the gap between surviving and thriving has has changed the Spectrum has changed back in our parents and grandparents days it was literally survive put a roof over your head food on the table now we have a different problem where they go well I want the American dream today in my own way and I want to shortcut

it I want a house now I want a car now I want to have all my dreams now is that part of the problem is that we've shortcut it with debt and other bad solutions that for sure is true and it's also the fascinating statistic about how many Americans have have moved and the the number of Americans who are moving now is lower than at any time in modern American history Americans are basically staying where

they were even though moving is actually much easier than it was 40 50 years ago and my parents were transplants to a couple different locations right they start off in Chicago they moved to Boston to go to college and then they end up in Los Angeles and now they're in Florida right my I spent my entire life in La it came a point where it was not sustainable anymore

we moved our company to Nashville we moved to Florida right the this this sort of idea it's not just I want a house and I want a car it's I want a house and I want a car in precisely the area I want the house in the car and if I can't get that and the size of house I mean we can go back to your parents story that

they stayed in 2400 Square ft until just a couple years ago yes and started with you in 1100 ft

yes which I I started in 1100 ft now I'm older than you by 25 years but still I mean and and that was California real estate so super expensive because they were in La at the time but still this idea that um 1100 square ft you've got

to be kidding me me under what planet should I live there I'm 21 years old why would I live in 11 my parents bought a house for and I'm like go look at that house you Boomers don't understand you bought your houses for a basket of strawberries and you don't understand you don't grasp what's really going on our expectations and standards have shifted to be impossible I

I think that also because people have you know a a brain Quirk that makes them think that if something is what it is today it was always like that they look at people who live in giant houses and they think that person was always rich right I I get this crap all the time right I mean it's like oh my God you must have grown up rich

I mean you're very wealthy which means you grew up right you're a trust fund baby and I think to myself no I like where are you possibly getting that that doesn't even that like what what in fact I'll tell you the number of people who are truly like generationally wealthy that I know the number of them who are trust fun babies is vanishingly small like the the

the richest people that I know literally and I know the richest people right I mean like Elon you're talking about people you know in in Silicon Valley these virtually none of them grew up trust fund babies right a huge number of them grew up actually really poor or at least at the very least middle class and then they made a bunch of good decisions and again for for all us

we all have these stories right when I got started in my career and I was writing I was writing for free I'd write for free just to get my stuff out there and my wife and I remember driving to like the local Republican Club in Orange County to find a bunch of 80-year-old women and buy a bunch I mean like 15 and then sell books out of

the back of my car at 20 bucks a pop and if we came with $200 that was like an amazing day and everyone has those stories it's exactly what we do that's why we have a trunk of a car out in the lobby with books in it cuz that's how it started and the you know the psalm over it don't despise Small Beginnings and we know from

the largest uh the research that we did the largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America over 10,000 of them we studied that 89% of America's millionaires it's about 21 million of them right now are not millionaires this is data it's not a feeling it's a fact are not millionaires

because of inherited money 89% that's n

out of 10 that should give everyone hearing that number every time I put it out great hope that the American dream is not over and and by the way you can see it in the stats I mean one of the things that Thomas Soul likes to point out is he says you whenever he's talking about disparities and and income I say you know what the greatest disparity in wealth is between older people

and younger people because you get wealthier as you get older if you do it right right I mean this is this is one of those things that that you know if you make smart financial decisions meaning don't day trade then you can actually get Wealthy by making solid financial decisions and then just sticking with those positions over the Long Haul compound growth your income goes up I'm

the only I'm the only rapper in the history of rap who put the magic of compound interest in a in a top charting rap song I I did I did insist on that that was like my insistence Eminem's been real quiet since he dropped that

track Tom McDonald was like well you write your set of the lyrics I was like okay the only thing I want I insist I actually wanted EIT D in there also but but I actually ended up only with h with the magic of compound interest that's amazing I'm curious how how is your view of wealth changed as you've actually built it you know there's a view of wealth

we have when we're young and we're striving has it changed for you now that you're kind of in a different phase maybe maybe in some ways uh you know listen I I was always ambitious to make more money I mean I'm not going to make any bones about this I don't think that's a bad thing I think that you know I didn't get into the business I was in in order to make money

you don't go into the political commentary business because you think you're just going to be loaded at the end of the day in fact every time I tried to make money in a

way that was not my passion it ended up failing right which I which I think is another thing that that folks don't realize about people who tend to make a lot of money is the reason they got into the business that they're in typically was not for the money it's because that's where their creative capacity was so for example I I mentioned I went to law school at Harvard Law right

you come out you have a trajectory now you're going to make a lot of money because you go to Harvard Law the chances you end up poor are pretty low so I go I work at a firm called Goodwin Proctor and I'm like you know I first of all I had the worst interview record in the history of Harvard Law because I was conservative and that that didn't work out well with

the law firms but after I took my books off my resume I got a job and I ended up working in like real estate law and so I'm sitting at this beautiful office in Century City and looking out you know over the over the hills toward the ocean and it's 2007 and there's no work right it's the end of the it's the end of 2007 the real estate market has collapsed she's sitting

there doing nothing all day and I am absolutely miserable and I was making what was you know great money coming out of law school it's like $180,000 and it was coming out of law school that's a lot of money and it's still a lot of money I was dating my wife at the time we gotten engaged and she saw you're she's like you're absolutely miserable you're you you're losing weight you're miserable

you hate this you should quit and I said okay I

mean I'm going to make a you know I don't have a job and he said well don't worry like I have faith that you'll you'll be able to get a job because you have a degree you're a smart person you'll figure it out and if we have to live on a lot less we'll live on a lot less so you don't have to be miserable and so

I ended up quitting we had just you know bought a condo which was great move I took a job for onethird the pay working at a place called Talk Radio Network which was the syndicator for a bunch of nationally syndicated radio and the deal that I made with the head of the company Mark Masters was that I would do corporate legal like half the

time I'd be kind of the secondary attorney there they had a primary um I'd be an associate about four hours a day and the other four hours I was going to I told him I'm only going to do this so I get to learn the basics of production I want to like sit in the room I want to cut audio I want to see how the monologues are done

I want to see like how everything in this industry works and so I got like really in the guts of it from that trajectory came everything else right you had I had to take a step a couple steps back financially in order to take steps forward because I was learning the thing getting expert at the thing that I wanted be expert at and then you try and

you fail and you try and you fail and you try and then you hit and and I think that's the story for a lot of people who get you know really really you know wealthy is is that you got to fail a lot absolutely and I think

you're right that the um politicians

stating that they are your answer for

Prosperity is a Lie from the pit of Hell and I just I rail on it on our shows about that what happens in your house is a thousand times more important than what happens in the white house as far as the trajectory of your future success neither party is going to make your life awesome I'm old I've seen both parties in office neither party has sent me money neither one of them have caused me to be successful I've done stupid things under both of them I've done really smart things under both of them

and the results of the stupid things or smart things that I did are what I inherited Bill Clinton didn't send me any money he didn't curse me he didn't bring my life to an end or anything else and and George W didn't and Ronald Reagan didn't and uh neither one of these two will well that's why it drives me up a wall when you hear politicians say

I created this number of jobs no you no you didn't by what standard what business did you start that you created that number of jobs and if you did create jobs in the in the public sector how much money did you have to steal from people in the private sector in order to redirect it to people that that you think are now going to vote for you

you know I actually just told president Trump that in the interview the other day I said when you tell people when politicians tell people they created jobs it pisses people like me off because we know we create the jobs so since small business is the backbone of the American economy 54% of the gross domestic product then what are you going to do to unleash small businesses to create jobs

because that's who most people work for that was my question to him and he kind of chuckled went well you know that's right it's like you know I I think there's something in the American Soul that's been innervated and put down for a long time and the way that we discuss wealth and the way we discuss money in this country has been wrong for a long time

this idea that the wealthy are quote unquote the privileged or the lucky I mean yes obviously there's an element of luck obviously we all have the privilege of living in the greatest country in the history of the world some of us have more privileges than others in the sense that we were born smarter or born more handsome or you know we're born more athletic but the reality is that that's

the part you can't control and so when we talk about wealth that way what we're doing is talking about all the stupid things that that you can't control the thing that you can control is how you approach the world as a saying that we have at our company that we we kind of you know started trafficking in early on we started hiring employees which is you can't

you can't teach hungry right I can do I can I can teach you all sorts of skills I can make you at your job but I cannot teach you if you're not hungry and Americans I feel like have lost hungry or at least they've forgotten how to be hungry but I think that deep in the American Soul there is a desire again to be Pioneers there's there's a desire to be entrepreneurial there's a desire to to actually go out

there and Conquer and that that's a good thing we've gotten away from this sort of aggressive language with regard to how to approach the world yeah but that but that that language is good I think you have a duty to succeed I think that this this this idea that it's a matter of you know moral apathy whether whether you make the decisions that lead to success or not is really terrible

you have a duty to at least try to succeed you have a duty to make the good decisions and you have to take that burden on yourself and when you do you'll be Freer because it'll it'll you'll be in the flow you'll you'll feel the thing you'll feel like you have a pathway to success there's something about putting that harness on and leaning into it that that stimulates

you it really does and you know we've got uh about 1100 team members and well over 400 of them are gen Z and you know

for the people watching this I I'm greatly encouraged about hungry because

in gen Z there is a group of them that are tremendously hungry they they are missional they they'll charge the gates of hell with a water pistol uh and then there's a group of them that are useless completely useless right and there's kind of no middle ground like Baby Boomers we would at least lie and you know and say we were useful you know but they won't even lie they'll just look at

you and say I'm useless or they'll say Let Me In put me in coach put me in coach by by the way I think that that that last point is really important is that what that says there there has now been created in the United States a permission structure for uselessness it used to be that if you if you if you were you know lazy you didn't want to do

the work you at least had to pretend that you weren't lazy and that you didn't want to do the work and now there's been a permission structure that's been created by politic yeah I mean every time people talk about well is it really that good that you're committed so much to your work is it good that you're spending so much time at work now listen if you have a bad work life balance meaning

you know first of all I don't even like the term work life balance because work is part of your life but if if if the idea is you're spending so much time at work you're not spending the proper amount of time with your family that's a real concern you need to rejigger your life I mean I I have to make conscious decisions about when to stop working to spend time with my kids

but that's not what people are talking about what they really mean by work life balance is that work is something terrible it's a burden that you take upon yourself and if only the markets were nice and friendly then you just get everything you want handed to you if we just had the Star Trek replicator machine we just hand you everything that you want and that's really the natural state of things

and it's like that is not even remotely the natural state of things the natural state of things is people dying at the age of 30 from some terrible disease while living in the outdoors right that's the natural state of things that'll make you grateful yeah it Americans very few Americans have spent a lot of time in you know other places of the world that are a lot poorer by

the way you don't have to go that far they don't have to be that much poor you can go to places in in Latin America

where the corruption is endemic I mean truly endemic you just walk off the plane we my wife and I went to Panama recently and literally we got off the tour gu had to bribe a cop like at the airport I mean that sort of stuff is is really really common you should be grateful to live in a country where if you try to bribe a cop you're probably going to get arrested right like the the the level of of honesty in America is

extraordinary the level of consistency in application of rules yes there are problems but compared to other countries is astonishing if you can't succeed in America where where precisely are you going to succeed and what does success look like to you yeah I've spent 16 days in December in Egypt and I just got back from 14 days in turkey and both of those have less than a $6,000 annual average average income and um yeah we got it

good download an app and go drive Uber and make that in a few months make that in a month if you if you stay in your car enough yeah that's pretty incredible so you're on the campaign Trail I'm curious because it sounds like what you guys are talking about is the job of the politician and the government is to create an environment where people can Thrive and businesses can Thrive

so what do you think politicians need to do if your people get an office what are the steps that we need to take to create that environment well I mean massive deregulation and I think that this is something president Trump certainly understands cutting the red tape that has to be done at local state and federal level it is so much harder to start a business now than

it was to start a business a few decades ago and if if you want to build a house now then the number of of Hoops that you have to jump through doing environmental impact statements and and and applying to things now again it's way better here than it is in other countries if you look at I'm I'm very familiar with the legal system in Israel the legal system in Israel to to build a new building in Israel just to get

the permits approved is like 270 days to do it in the State of Florida where I am is like 3 hours so but with that said there's too much regulation that regulation makes it very very difficult you need to stop confiscating people's wealth when people make money let them make their money and then reinvest their money in new things we need to get rid

of the systemic burden on the American economy that requires that draw down which is these giant welfare programs these giant welfare programs are eating the American economy alive and none of these politicians will take it on because when you have a a concentrated

benefit and a diffused cost then it's very hard for politicians to actually make the case for getting rid of the program right when 10 people are really benefiting a lot but a th people are paying 1 cent it's much easier to just say to those 10 people hey you're getting your money you know everything's everything's great for you and all you you're just paying one cent but

the reality is you take one cent many many many times which is what the government is doing eventually end up bankrupting everything and politicians on both sides are running screaming away from this sort of stuff because the American people are not prepared to hear it and frankly I don't put it on the politicians I I really think that when it comes to the politicians I I I deeply in Thomas Soul statement about

this it's not about electing the right people it's about creating incentives so the wrong people do the right things and in the end that's on us right we're the voters we're the ones who get to decide whether we hold politicians accountable for lying to us about social security or Medicare or Medicaid or the welfare programs that are that are eating the budget and the American people are seem to be willing to walk right off that Cliff

I can't blame the politicians for taking advantage I blame them for lying I I blame them for for not telling the truth but that's what you and I are here for is to tell the truth also I mean I I think that I've spoken with a lot of Congress people Senators presidents and and one of the things that I constantly say to the politicians is your job is not my job in my job is not your job your job is to go get 80% of

the loaf and my job is to Define what the loaf looks like and what I see from the politicians is them trying to do our job and us trying to do their job meaning we are afraid to tick off our audiences by saying the thing that might be unpopular because not enough people are willing to agree with the idea that they're free to succeed in America you might piss somebody off right

so there's audience capture in the commentariat and then for politicians they want to pretend that the 80% that they're getting is 100% because that's how you win you pretend that actually you cut this the single best deal in the history of humankind even when you only got 50% of the loaf and and so what you'll do is you'll pretend well sure I didn't touch welfare Social Security Medicare Medicaid

but I soled all our budget problems and we're going to soar into the future it's like no now now you're lying so I think both both the commentar and the and the political sphere have to stop lying I think both of them are lying I think the very first time I saw you um was some

YouTube clips of you taking questions on

woke subjects from college kids and U

that's probably gosh you and I've been friends for almost uh almost 10 years so that's probably 10 or 15 years ago some of those clips the first time I saw them and I think it was Rachel was at the lake housee she said you got to see this Ben shapo benel he just he's destroying but one of the things that struck me with that and I think one of the things that's appealing about those clips and even about your show and sometimes we get it on our stuff but we're little uh a

little different T take on it is this uh

sense that it's like your pulse rate doesn't change on these things you know there's this thing of uh you you're uh I want to

say not afraid but that's not it you don't get amped up at all it's almost as if when you're debating someone you're toying with them um you're a chess

master and you've seen four moves ahead and they're done so we're going to go ahead and enjoy the ride you know that kind of a thing is the way it feels um have you always been that way or did you develop that confidence as you as you did it more I think some both uh I think you get better at it the more you do it and

there are times where you still have to remind yourselfself to stay calm depending on how inflammatory the topic you're taking on is I remember you just this year when I went to Oxford University in the aftermath of October 7th and obviously you know I know people whose family members are kidnapped in in the Gaza Strip I know multiple families who have lost family who are soldiers in in Gaza

I know many people right now who are serving in Lebanon so have you know a pretty close stake in in that particular conflict and and October 7th and and all the rest and uh and I was you know facing down students who actively were calling for the destruction of the state of Israel and defending Hamas andah and all this going in I kind of had to say to myself listen just stay calm just stay calm just don't get angry just stay calm that that's that's fairly rare

I I tend to be more analytic there's there's sort of a mode that I go into and this is this is the part that's kind of natural I'm not sure why it it occurred maybe it's from being bullied as a kid but where we're almost

I can see myself almost in third person doing the thing uh where it's like okay well now we're in analysis mode and this person's making an argument is it a good argument is it a bad argument let's try and kind of figure out what the what the puzzle pieces are here force them to Define terms try and maybe I agree with them what what exactly is it that they're doing here my wife hates

it when this happens during a home argument by the way she'll be like we're not in a YouTube video you need to stop this right now yeah how do you argue with Ben Shapiro at home that feels like is it even worth it no I I mean so do you ever let her win just for fun well I mean if I'm smart I let her win all

the time right I mean that's the smart move but it's but yeah the the truth is my wife is really good about this sort of stuff meaning that I'm I'm You by Nature a very analytic person and so i' I've said this before you when when I'm talking to my wife and I will now generalize this to to many women uh many women when they present a problem

they don't want an answer they want sympathy and this is a mistake I made for many years at the beginning of my marriage where my wife would come to me with a problem and be like right so you should this and this and this and then it'll be solved and she be like get angry like why why why are you like why are you telling me that

and so I actually said to her I you know I need to know at the outside of the conversation is this a solving this thing problem or is this say you just want me to hear you conversation like which one which one of these is it and she's she's nice enough to actually like be honest about that let me know good good marriage tick and I've heard she's one of

the nicest people in the world so opposites do attract apparently yeah exactly exactly no she she yeah every

everyone loves my wife my wife is a sweetheart so are you in that same vein a lot of your brand has been built around controversy you're stepping into extremely controversial things or sometimes you create it um is this intentional or is it just a value this is something I value and I need to go there and if controversy happens so be it it's more the letter I

I really try not to say uncalibrated things for the sake of just drawing fire everything that I say I feel like I could say in a more inflammatory fashion just to get clicks I I really try to calibrate my language to make sure that if there's a hill that I'm going to die on I want to die on a hill of my own own choosing and and what that means is that

if there is a position that finds itself in controversy then I want to stated as clearly and succinctly as I can a boy is not a girl right I mean these are things that that didn't used to be controversial but now are very very controversial uh or disparities are not

are not evidence of discrimination you have to show me evidence of discrimination otherwise you know there might be a confound in in in what you're talking about that like that that has now become a controversial statement but I I I really try not to just initiate

you know firefights for the sake of initiating firefights I try to be pretty careful about the language that I use and frankly I find it irritating when people are deliberately vague when they use semantic overload in order to do that you'll see people do this again criticizing my own industry but you'll see people do this they'll say something that is perceived by say our side of the aisle as perfectly obvious

and it's perceived by the other side of the aisle as the most controversial thing ever and if they had just said it in the way that they actually meant it it wouldn't be controversial at all so instead of talking about say you to to take just a a random example uh pretty famous commentator on the right at one point was suggesting that immigration was making our country dirty

and this was perceived by the right as okay there are people who are coming across our border who come from cultures where they don't clean the streets as often and that means there's more trash on the streets sometimes and that's that's a bad thing and then people on the left are like he's talking about racially dirty if you're on the right you read That's semantic overload it's a it's a term that that can be interpreted a variety of ways

if the commentator just said what I mean is the first thing what I mean is when people come here and they come from a culture where there isn't regular trash pickup they sometimes leave their garbage on the lawn and that makes the neighborhood dirtier and that has severe social consequences for everybody else who lives in the neighborhood now it's not even controversial right you know exactly what

the person's saying and I think there's a certain amount of deliberate vagueness that very often contributes to controversy that I don't particularly like because it's not it doesn't aim at at solving the problem you know sometimes I think it's deliberate and sometimes I think it's almost mental laziness MH instead of taking the time

to get to the point in a concise way in a clear way with courage and say this is

what I mean and if you don't like that that's okay but this is what I mean and that requires some extra mental gymnastics and it requires an extra level of backbone to step in and go be be very very clear if you're going to be mad at me let's be mad at me about the right this is one of the things that drives me absolutely up a wall is is

when people will they'll use words like they without an antecedent right they're out to get you it's like well I need to know who they is yeah we get that in the financial World they said and I heard right so horrible financial planning firm and and and you see this all the time in politics well there doing X they're doing y can we even know who they are

if you tell me who they are I can I can verify it I can say whether it's false whether I think that it's true you see this about say election 2020 and people will say the election was rigged okay I need specifics what are you talking about specifically when you say the election was rigged do you mean that members of the Legacy Media hid the hunter Biden laptop story in

the leadup to the election in order to help Joe Biden totally agree if that's what you mean by rigged 100% agree if by Rigg you mean that in the middle of the night in Fon County there were people who bring in new halls full of ballads and then just shoving them through the machines I need some evidence of that right but people will use rigged and they'll just mean all those things to all those people

and then if you say well I don't think I don't agree with you the way you're talking about then it's like well that's because you're on the other side right it's it's a way of creating artificial division rather than Clarity and and that that I find pretty reprehensible well it's it's where we've devolved from arguing about ideas instead we argue about hyperbole that's what it comes down to have

you found that you know with the onset of Instagram reals and Tik Tok and shorts it exacerbates it it's kind of like when you just see the headline and snap judgment start commenting and there's no context for you for the full hourong piece you did on the subject versus this 30 second clip you saw and and that also means that that it's very easy to deliberately mischaracterize other people's viewpoints

and so yeah that happens all the time Y where where somebody will will claim that you said a thing that you clearly did not say in fact you may have said precisely the opposite or you clarified it in a particular way in the middle of you know a 15-minute segment or an hour segment and they'll pick out one sentence and then because people have an attention span of 7 3 seconds whatever

it is you know people will will see that and then they'll just think that's your view from now on I mean the comments that we started with about retirement are perfect example of this I wasn't saying that you can never retire that you have to be 9-year-old working in a salt mine Ben hates old people right exactly that was for for like two weeks that was the narrative

The Narrative was I remember they did the same thing during Co right during Co I was saying that just on an on insurance basis we should treat years lost of life as one of the stats that we use in measuring the impact of Co meaning that if you're talking about know who to protect and who to Shield we should be shielding the elderly that's that's the number one job

but we should be trenching people who are younger back into the workforce because those people are not really going to get sick and they're really not going to die they're going to be fine if you're talking about you know past pandemics this pandemic compared to other pandemics is targeting particularly not kids not people who are young and healthy it's particularly targeting people who are older and have multiple pre-existing conditions which means that it's a less damaging pandemic than past pandemics in certain ways right not in terms of every human life is is valuable

but if you're just talking about like cost of years lost then you're you're talking about people who are 85 who are dying at 85 as opposed to 86 that's horrible it's a tragedy it's awful it's also not the same thing as a nine-year-old child dying and we all know that right if if millions of nine-year-old children had been dying of covid then people would have been willing to undertake pretty much any measure in order to quote unquote slow

the spread right but it so I said that and the takeaway from the media was Shapiro fine with with dead old people it's like that's not what I'm saying at all I'm saying what is a perfectly obvious point but you know if you can boil things down into their most controversial and stupid form people like being pissed people people like the feeling of getting passionate on the internet

and it'll get views and clicks at the end of the day lot yeah I've noticed a lot of people made a really good living off of doing that off of my stuff right making a solid secondary living off of uh reacting to things that you reacting to things that I say I'm really good for clicks EX for things I didn't say well proud of you guys again

we sit at the opening and we're proud of you to have you as friends and neighbors and uh we love watching your success and watching your talent and all the good things you're doing very well done and appreciate you taking time to sit down with us on long form here no it's always great to see it's a blast Ben Shapiro ladies and gentlemen Ben Shapiro thanks this is

the Ramsey Show

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## 94. It’s Never Too Late To Retire With Dignity | November 14, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bjcVVxgsrM) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:58:35 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Excited to be with you today. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Campbell. The phone number to jump in8255225LE88255225.

Let's go to Kate here in Nashville, Tennessee. Kate, how can we help?

>> Hey guys. Um, how are y'all doing?

>> We're having a blast. What's going on in your world? >> Okay, so um I am I think I'll just throw

stuff out and then y'all can ask questions. I'm 49. I am divorced. um

five years and I have been renting and I

have nothing in savings. I am on baby

step two and will be debtree um this the

end of this month.

>> Awesome. >> And I will be I'll be going into of course baby step three and and hopefully into baby step 3b really quickly. Um, I

believe what I'm looking for is um some

encouragement or and or advice on, you

know, if I need to make some changes, if I need to do more. Um, so yeah.

>> Wow. So, how how long ago was this divorce? Is it finalized?

>> It w it is. Um, it was 5 years ago.

>> Okay. >> In 2020. >> Did you walk away with anything?

>> Any assets? >> Very little. Very little. Okay. And no

alimony or anything like that?

>> No, unfortunately not.

>> Okay. What do you make?

>> Well, it I hate it when people say this.

It varies. I own a uh residential and

commercial cleaning company that um fluctuates. And so, um this year,

um I kind of tick like a rest year. I

had surgery in January and uh I was

burned out at the end of last year. So, but I'm still making and bringing in pretty good money. Um bringing in right now around between 9 and $10,000. Um you

know, my take-home. >> Fantastic. >> Good for you. So, you've got a whole team that's running the show and you took a break as far as you're not, you know, physically doing any of the work.

Well, I for until May and then I had to

get back out there. I am uh one who needs to be moving. If not, I get depressed and eat.

It's just not a good situation. So, I am out there with my employees. Yes.

>> Hey, a real quick question. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I just feel like I'm supposed to ask.

What's going on in your personal life?

Are you trying to date? Are you getting back out there? It's been five years.

You know, are you experiencing loneliness, isolation? and I just want to know where you stand on that.

>> Um, I am pretty peaceful at the moment.

I did do some dating and it was just trash. So, um, I'm not in that scene

right now. I think I'm focused more on

>> getting my life back in order or getting it in order, period. >> Great. What about friends, though? What What kind of friendships do you have?

Um, I have, you know, I have some friendship, you know, I have great friends at church and great Bible studies and things like that. >> Perfect. Okay. I just wanted to make sure you weren't trying to do this alone.

You've done some great stuff. Uh, but when I hear burnout, the business, I just want to make sure that you got community around you because the baby steps alone, George, are hard enough and um and you've done so so well. Now, you set us up, but what's your specific question?

I think my concern is my retirement. I,

you know, with me renting at the moment,

no money in saving. I, you know, I've got my emergency fund and

that's it. >> Okay. How long has it been since you got the emergency fund funded?

>> Um, it's not the fully it's not the I'm

interested in baby step two, but I >> Okay, I apolog I apologize. All right.

So, let's let's let's uh bring George in here because when you're in the middle of baby step two, um your mindset

doesn't need to be focused on retirement, George. >> Yeah. So, 6 months from now, will you have that fully funded emergency fund in place? You'll be debtree with that savings. >> Okay. >> Yes, I do have the Every Dollar app, and

it is phenomenal. Phenomenal, by the way. I love it. Um, and it gives me

really good hope for my future, but I, you know, I just want to hear what you guys have to say about it.

>> Well, yeah, I can show you the math because that's the best way to show you the reality. And if you don't like it, you can make some changes. So, we we, you know, recommend 15% of your household income going into retirement once you're debtree with the emergency fund. So, let's say by summertime, will you be 50 by then?

>> I will be 50 in February. Yes.

>> Perfect. Okay. Okay. So, let's say you're starting at 50 with nothing in retirement.

>> Mhm. >> And your household income gross, like on your tax return, what is that going to show that you made?

>> Um >> 150,000 170,000.

>> No, I don't think it's going to be that.

I would I don't know. I'd say probably around 100. >> Well, you told us your take-home pay is nine or 10 grand a month.

>> That's what I'm bringing in right now.

It fluctuates, so I really don't >> Okay. you know, and and I wasn't working in the front of this year. So, >> that's okay. I like the conservative number. 100,000. It's a good number for this exercise. >> So, that's 15,000 a year you'd be investing. Are you tracking with me? 15%.

>> Yes. >> So, per month, that means 1250 is going to be going into investment accounts of some sort from age 50 to 67. If you did that, you would have 34 of a million dollars by 67.

That's not a terrible nest egg.

considering you're starting from scratch at 50. Now, that's assuming your income

never goes up. That's assuming you never get a home and pay it off. Um, and so that gives me some hope that you can create a little nest egg for yourself. Now, I don't know what kind of lifestyle you're looking to live in a retirement.

I assume you want to live pretty comfortably. And that means we got to get the income up. We might need to work longer. You know, we can start to tweak some of these variables if you want to see a bigger number in that retirement account.

>> Yeah. >> How does that hit you? It sounds like you are completely deflated. Yeah.

>> No, no, no. I'm thinking and um >> let me throw something out there. Okay.

>> It's not part of not part of the Ramsay U plan here, but I I've held my tongue a

few times recently, George, when I've had call when we've had calls like this.

I'm going to throw it out there. >> Okay. >> All right. >> I'm not scared. >> And Kate, this is coming from like the friend, the brother, you know, we're close to the same age.

>> Yeah. >> I like that you're in a place of peace and you're getting your financial house in order. But I'm going to tell you something. Get further healing coming out of that divorce. Get yourself out there because what George just gave you from a number standpoint doesn't take into account a really good man out there who has his financial house in order and we combine finances and we live a really great life. So you're not in this alone.

>> That's assuming it's a solo journey forever and Ken is believing more for you. >> I am not putting pressure on you. I'm not I'm not I'm not giving love advice.

>> Your lips to God's ears. >> Come on. Okay. Good. So you are hopeful for it.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> good. Well, listen, you got listen, you got to put yourself out there. >> And again, that's a variable that completely changes all of this.

>> We meet some guy who who equally has been hurt and he or he's never been married, whatever, whatever, whatever.

And uh I believe that you can find that guy. I believe that. And uh we get on the same page with money and this this whole picture changes. I'm just putting it out there.

>> Just remember this, Kate. It's not too late. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today.

and today is here and you've got a great income. You've got a bright future ahead of you and I fully believe you're going to retire with dignity if you follow this plan. >> Thank you. >> I got to say my inspiring advice probably has to do with I walked through the living room last night.

My wife and daughter were watching the Golden Bachelor. >> Oh, there you I was wondering. I was like, Ken's really wanting this to happen. >> So my daughter says to me, "Dad, sit down and watch the finale." I was like, "Oh, how do I say no to her?" >> And you loved it too much.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> All right, Patricia is up next and she is uh waiting for us in Ohio. Patricia, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, I have found this past year that

in order to pay the quarterly taxes on my investments, I had to borrow from the

investments to pay those taxes, which

generated more tax liability for the following

year. And I just realized this and

decided it has to stop and um

immediately. and I've taken some steps

to stop it. Um, and tried to I'm trying

to use the RNY plan, but I need to know

if I'm taking the correct steps and um

if it needs tweaking or anything.

>> Okay. So, give us a picture here. So, you have a tax bill come up and you go, "Well, I don't have the money. I'm going to dip into my 401k and and borrow against it." What have what have you been doing?

>> Well, I in 2015 when my mother died, I

inherited um stocks and I brought them to a broker

and everything and he's played with the portfolio and it has doubled. Um it's

gone from mid300,000 to $756,000.

Is this in a retirement account or is it outside of retirement?

>> Outside of retirement.

>> Okay. As in you're paying capital gains taxes when you withdraw. Is that the issue? Is that why you're saying you're getting taxed again? >> Yes. >> Well, I think let's go back. Let's go back a step.

>> What are the quarterly taxes on? Is it do you are you self-employed? And and and it's a two-part question. Why

quarterly taxes? What's going on? And and and why is it that you're not setting that money aside that you're not able to pay it? give us a better picture.

>> Well, um I had always been able to pay

it until I think this year and uh I what

has changed?

>> Um uh they became bigger than I could

handle. like what became bigger before I

I I had sold a house and I had $15,000

profit from that >> and I thought, well, I'll give that to the the broker and he'll grow it for me

so when I'm ready to buy a car, I can buy the car. So, I did that and but I

not realizing that I would have to pay.

You didn't set aside. You didn't. So, you're getting But here's why I'm digging into this, Patricia, so that we can help you. >> One doesn't have to pay taxes unless one is bringing in income and revenue. So, you're clearly bringing in a a certain amount of income and revenue, and taxes are due on that, and for some reason, you're unable to pay them. Now, in this situation, it sounds like you sold a house, you didn't set aside any taxes

uh on that capital gains and you just gave it all to investor and you didn't set some aside. So, then the tax bill came back and you're so low on cash. Is that a proper representation of what I heard?

>> No, I'm sure I paid the taxes on the

sale of the house, although I don't remember the particulars right now.

>> Well, forget the sale of the house. Let's talk about your business. So, you're you're self-employed.

Okay. No. Um, let me give you some

details. I'm 70 years old. So, I'm

retired and I'm living off of social security and a pension. My income is

$52,000 a year.

>> From those two things. >> And yeah.

>> Okay. >> From those two things. and my tax man

uh quite a few years ago started to give

me these slips of paper for the IRS and

for the state that said I had to make

full payments to cover the taxes for the the following

year so that I wouldn't be surprised

when when I handed in my tax bill that

there's like a $5,000

uh amount that I have to pay. So, I pay it ahead of time and four installments.

Well, this year when I when I got those,

they're over $2,000, like $2,200

each time. I um I went to see if I had

that kind of a cash that I could pay it

out of my own funds, and I didn't. So, I

borrowed from I went to my broker and

said, "I need money to pay the these

bills." And I was given money. And it

wasn't until the fall that I realized, "Oh my goodness, cuz what I did when I

borrowed the money uh to >> When you say borrow the money, I'm confused. Are you just selling off a portion of your investments?" >> Yeah. Yeah, >> because borrow means you're taking a loan against it, but that's not what you're doing. You're just withdrawing from the investment account.

>> Yeah, I withdrew from the investment account, >> but then I realized all of a sudden I realized, okay, I made all these withdrawals this year to pay 2025 taxes,

and those withdrawals will come due. Um,

I'll have to pay taxes on them in 220.

>> Yeah. Every time you take money out of that investment account, know that you should set aside 30% of that in a savings account. >> That's going to be the easiest way to do this is if you take 10 grand out of your investments, put three grand of that in a savings account. And then when tax time comes around, you transfer it from savings to checking and you pay the tax man.

That's what I just the easiest way to do it is just set aside just call it 30%.

>> Okay. Well, anyway, what happened was I

found out I um asked how much was taken

out this year, and my broker had said um

he wanted to uh charge a flat fee for the year, a

certain percentage, and he wanted and [clears throat] he split my accounts into stocks in one one area and in

mutual funds in another. Why are you in single stocks anyways?

>> Why does your broker have you in those?

>> Well, that's what I started with. I started with all stocks and moving them over to >> he's slowly converting them to mutual funds. Okay. I I think two things, George. I I would love for you to give Patricia just a basic let's get on a budget and so that she's not lacking

cash. She has I think Patricia I'm guessing you have plenty of income through your through your benefits to be able to pay your bills and you have some margin. Is this true or false?

>> False. >> You don't have enough money coming in.

>> No. Um what are >> I This is what I've done so far. I I'll

tell you. I transferred my investments to a bank to get them away from this guy

because he insists that he is going to

work with those investments and every time he sells something and moves something it it generates a tax

liability for me and I need to be away from that for a while until I >> I'm so confused. See, do you not trust the broker? Because they're just doing what you tell them to do.

>> And no matter who you work with, even if it's on your own, you're going to owe taxes when you sell off these investments.

>> Uh but Patricia, let's go quickly. We don't have much time with you and I want to get you with a financial coach. We're going to give you a session with one of our financial coaches because this is an onion that's um got a lot of layers, but

I just need a yes or no question. based on the pension, the social security payments that you told us your income.

Are you telling me that if you didn't have tax payments, are you saying that even with those benefits that you don't have enough money to pay your household bills, your utilities, groceries, all those things?

I I have stood down to

um their minimum and put myself on a

budget. So, I have $1,500 a month to go toward um toward paying

those things. And I and that's what I'm going to say. >> I I I Okay. All right.

So, I think we we're about to the end of our time and our ability to help you. And what you need is and we're going to we're not going to leave you hanging. So, hang on the line, Patricia. Christian is going to get you set up with one of our financial coaches and they can walk through all of this, get it all.

>> They'll help you with the budget. They'll help point you to a tax pro who can explain, hey, here's how much your income is.

Here's how much you need to set aside.

We just need to get some of these details ironed out so that you're not stuck in this cycle for the rest of your life. Sorry you're going through this.

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All right, we go to Aiden who is in Michigan next. And Aiden, we're here for you. How can we help?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's going on? So, in about six months, I'll be turning 18 and I'll be gaining access to a portfolio of about $90,000 in stocks. And on top of that, I'll have like 13,000 in a CD, 5,000 in a money market. What strategies would you guys recommend to help me grow these funds? >> Where's the money coming from?

>> So, when I was born, my grandfather put

money into the stock market and it's just been growing ever since. >> Wow. So, it's all been in your name this whole time, but you're turning 18 and have access to it because of that. Uh, so it's a it's a custodian account. So it's in his name until I'm 18.

>> Got it. So it's like a UTMA or UGMA, one of those. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What do you call grandfather?

What's his name? What do you call him?

>> Uh, I call him Gordon.

>> That's very formal. [laughter] >> That's his actual name.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You don't call him pops or granddaddy or >> Yeah, I do, but that that's his name.

>> No, I So it was a bad question. What's his grandfather name? What do you call him? >> Well, I call him Papa, but yeah, his name >> Papa. Yeah, I know. We established the Gordon. >> All right. I was All that wasted time for me to say you need to thank Papa.

Papa's a good man. He set you up. The moment's lost. We lost the whole thing in translation.

Gordon. I call him Gordon. [laughter] >> Gordon. That's strong.

It's a strong name. >> So, the question, how can I grow the money? We can answer that in two seconds. The better question is, what is the best use of this money for your future?

Exactly. >> For the short term and the long term, which then we got 17 other questions like, what does the future look like for you as you graduate high school? Are you going to go to college?

>> Uh, I plan on going to college for finance, and I plan on using some of this money for college, but I just want to grow it safely so that I have that money when I'm older. >> Okay. Well, the next question is, how much is college going to cost? because if it's going to cost $100,000, we're not going to go put this money into the stock market.

>> Yeah. Uh so I plan on going to MSU. Um

so that's probably going to be around $130,000.

>> Okay. So you just let the cat out of the bag. We're not going to invest this money. We're going to park it in a high yield savings account to cash flow our college experience. Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> Because you invest that money. Now you're going to go take out 130 grand in student loans. Would you agree?

Yeah. >> So that's why I I cautioned against I want this money to grow too, but that's not the purpose of this money. This purpose is to fund your education if that's your next step. Cuz the whole goal here is to avoid debt.

Do you have any debt currently? >> No. >> Can we keep it that way and use this seed money to help you avoid debt for the rest of your life? >> Yes, sir.

>> So that would be like a a reasonable used cash car covering your college expenses to get you through the next four years. We're going to graduate in four years.

Things like that. So, if you can make that promise to yourself and to Papa, then we're on to something. Because now at 22, you graduate debtree. You got a degree in finance. You're making 60 grand out of college. Now, we can begin to go, how can I use my income to as a wealth building tool instead of this money? >> How close do you live to uh Lancing, the

main campus?

>> Uh, it's probably about like a two-hour drive from me.

>> All right. Why MSU in particular?

>> Uh they have a good business class and just high acceptance rate honestly.

>> Yeah. >> So that just go for the lowest bar possible. Here's what I'm thinking. Can we get a finance degree for 50 grand total instead of 130 grand total? Cuz I can tell you this, the employer doesn't care how good the business class was.

>> That's where I'm going. I I just my heart sank when you told me it was going to be 130 for Michigan State or state school. I went and looked at what the instate tuition is and a lot, you know, half of that cost is housing and all the other junk. That's why I asked how close you are. And the whole point is is I'm I'm with George. How can you use some of

this money to cash flow college and

still have some money left over for the very point that George >> Can you imagine graduating with no debt and $30,000 in the bank and another 25

for a down payment?

>> That's a cool future at 22. You're way ahead of America. That's what we want for you. And so what that requires is, you know, what's your GPA right now? Are you Did you graduate or you about to?

>> Uh, no. Next year I'll be graduating.

>> So, what's your GPA as a junior in high school right now? >> Uh, my GPA currently is a 3.5.

>> Uh, not bad, my friend. I never even sniffed 3.5, so that's impressive. What do you have you taken any pre uh ACT, SAT score, any tests?

>> Uh, actually today I have SAT prep class. >> Great. I'm going to tell you something.

Just a little tip here. You need to do your own homework on this as it relates to business schools in the state of Michigan. I'd start there. Instate tuition obviously is going to be better, but um and George, you know, I'm a big fan of this. I got a kid right now. I got a high school senior who's who's going through this and he's crushing it.

I have told him I'll pay for as many uh I by the way, I paid for George a uh

tutor for these tests. They're specifically for these standardized tests. My son's got a 40, but he's not a wonderful test taker, and neither was I. And so, it's like, we got special prep for that. So, Aiden, you know, if your parents are willing to pay that, you can pay it. I would get a tutor to prep you for these uh these these exams. Uh two,

take them as many times as you as you need to. If you're cash flowing it, because every time you go up, my son, by the way, has taken the ACT twice and he's crushing it. He's measurable difference between the second time. He says to me the other day, "Dad, should I take it a third time?" I went, "How much money could we save?" [laughter] >> That's true. >> Because it's like, "I'll pay for the test if he's saving five grand $10,000

scholarship." Then it was worth paying the tutor 500 bucks. >> 100%. So Aiden, I'm speaking real time here. And so you're a junior, so you still have some time. But bringing this back home where George and I are, you need to discover all of the schools in Michigan that have a good a decent business program. They don't need to be topnotch.

Um and and if we can go for half, what

an accomplishment. >> Think about this. You spend 65 on school instead of 130 and at 22 you invest that other 65. Can I tell you the numbers?

>> Tell him, George. >> $3.5 million at 62. That's if you never

put another dime. >> Aiden, did you hear that?

>> I heard it loud and clear.

>> So it's not two boomers, you know, hating on college. Like we're trying to make the most of that money for you. And that's why it's very important to go, how little of this money can I use to cash flow college, and how much can I get from scholarships, part-time work, busting my tail so that I can have this kind of wealth on the other side.

>> Love it. >> So, if you just make a plan, I'm taking debt off the table, no debt, I'm going to use as little of this money as possible, and then once I graduate and have my income, now we can make some more adult decisions because the future's a little more clear. And right now, there's just too many variables for me to tell you, just go park it in the market, Aiden, you'll be fine.

Uh, let me see here. Where do you live?

>> Uh, right now I'm in St. Joseph,

Michigan. Small town. >> Give me an idea how far away from Detroit. Greater Detroit that is.

>> Uh, that's probably going to be like three hours. >> Okay, great. Um, let me let me just I just did a quick search. Um,

Oakland University. My cousin, very successful um, marketing executive went to Oakland

University. It's right in the suburbs of Detroit. They offer free tuition for qualifying uh residents. U so look into that. Um

it's financial and residency requirements. I don't know. I'm not saying you're going to get free tuition, but this is just a quick search. Um >> it's doing all the research instead of going, "Well, this is the school I want, so who cares?" >> And and well, here's what here's what your answer was.

And by the way, no judgment, Aiden. I appreciate it, but I want to encourage you. Your answer to George is why Michigan State. You went well honestly because well they've got a good business program.

Someone told you that. Who really cares? Nobody.

then you said ultimately it's a high percentage the acceptance rate. And you're in this stage and you've been conditioned by this country, parents,

uh principles, teachers, you've been conditioned that college is the best way to success. And it's no longer true. By the way, never was true. Uh but we were told it was true. And so at this point, I'm I'm just really driving this home.

My homework assignment for you is to uh

look at the most affordable colleges in Michigan, look up their business programs, how are they rated, do some research on that as well, and let's see how much money we can knock off of tuition. Uh so that we keep Gordo's

investment for you. I like this plan.

This is like the prodigal son. You don't want to just spend all the money, the inheritance instantly and then come back and go, "Well, it's gone. I'm eating with the pigs now." I want to see you really live, man. Live with some freedom. And that means using this money very wisely to protect the legacy that your grandfather just handed down to you.

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Hey, George. Guess what?

>> What? The allnew Every Dollar is here.

You're wearing >> That was a setup, Ken. I thought you really had something for it. >> I know. I kind of like to do that. Uh >> I almost said chicken butt to be honest.

[laughter] >> I refrained. >> Wow. Oh, but yet you said it anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, there you go. Uh, so I uh met with the team the other day. This the new every dollar is amazing. You hear this and I go I I'll be the judge of that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? I'm a little bit of a not a true cynic, >> but you're like, you want to see it to believe it. >> I would like to arrive at my own conclusion, not have a marketer tell me.

So, I had a meeting with the Every Dollar folks. You know, I was blown away by >> what's that? the uh 12 to 15 minutes of questions when you initially get in there. And I said to them, I go, "This is literally a more robust version of

someone calling in the show and getting our coaching. You're going to get eight minutes, eight, nine minutes with us." >> 247 in your pocket is with >> 247. And then I found out that for now,

and I told the people the other day, I don't know how how long Dave's going to let this one go. Uh >> oh. But you also can get a 10-minute call with a real live financial coach.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> In addition to the articles, the here's

what you need to do. So, I I'm just telling you when I say it's no longer a budgeting app, I mean it. It really is.

>> Yeah. The group personal coaching, that's some of the best features. >> It's a digital financial coach that, oh, by the way, has a phenomenal budgeting functionality to it. That's my take.

What do you say? I actually just came from a lunch with those guys and they were showing me what they're working on.

Mind blown. >> Oh boy. >> The functionality the we're moving just past it being budgeting and more like how do we track all the pieces of your financial life so you get a real holistic picture and you know what to do next. That's where this thing is heading and you can come along for the ride and check it out.

>> People where they get it. >> Go get it in the App Store or Google Play. Just search every dollar. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes.

Like Ken mentioned, you got nothing to lose except maybe you're stressed. Oh, well played. I see what you did there. Adam is up in Dallas, Texas.

>> Hi, how are you guys doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> We're doing great. What's going on with you?

>> So, my wife is an avid listener to your show. >> Well, of course she is. You married a good woman. Tell her we said thank you.

>> I did. All right. I did. I will.

Um I honestly, just being honest, I don't listen to it very much unless she was in the car with me, but I have. >> Okay, let's put Adam on hold. Who's next? Who do we have next?

I'm kidding, Adam. I'm kidding.

>> But I have uh listened to the audible book Money Makeover. And let me just say

95% of the things in there I 100% agree

with. It's preaching to the choir. But there's one thing that you guys preach that uh my wife agrees with and I don't.

>> Oh, I love it. What is it?

>> That is paying off your mortgage.

>> I'll give you a little >> What a silly idea, >> right? No. >> So, we have a $327,478.50

mortgage right now >> with a 3.625 interest rate.

>> And I have been very adamantly against paying that off for the last several years >> because if we invest our money very conservatively, very safely, high yield savings account, money market account, it's been at 4 and a.5 to 5% for the last several years. Just recently it got down to 3.8. 8. And my question to you

is why oh why would I pay off my

mortgage when I can make more having it

in conservative basically guaranteed money versus uh at 3.8 versus uh you

know getting back 3.625 by paying it off. >> Adam, would you believe would you believe >> 3.2,000 a year >> right now? Would you believe you're the first person to ever hit us with that?

I figured I wasn't, but uh again I >> Here's the question. You are not the first person. You are correct, sir.

George, tell him why. Do you have $327,000 sitting in that savings account?

>> Uh so not a savings. So we've got uh in

money market account right now. We have enough to pay off our house. >> That's what I'm saying. So you have the money to pay it off. >> Oh yes, sir. And >> but you like to see it grow at 3.8%.

Which, by the way, you owe taxes on all the money you're making from that. You understand that? So it's not apples to apples already. >> The interest can be written off taxes wise.

So >> the mortgage interest is what you're saying because you guys itemize every year. >> Correct. >> Okay. So I can give you the logical math answer and that's where you're going to want to spar.

But it's so far beyond that. And what your wife is getting at is it's not about the math. She does not care if you guys could make a thousand and you didn't that year because you paid off the mortgage. Because the other part you're not taking into account is once you free up that mortgage payment, number one, you can invest that amount and you'll likely be back to where you were pretty quickly.

I assume you guys have a great income the way you're talking. >> Uh, pretty good.

>> Okay. So, can we agree that you could save up 300,000 bucks pretty quickly with your income if you had zero debt?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. Next question. Are you going to be

broke in retirement if you pay off your mortgage and liquidate that investment account? No, absolutely not. >> So, the argument is, do I want 5.6 million in retirement when I am 63 or

will it be 5.3 but with a paid for mortgage?

>> Can we agree that's kind of what we're It's kind of like both scenarios are pretty great. We can agree there.

>> Yeah. >> The other question, are you both working full-time right now?

>> Yes. >> Now, let's play this out. What if somebody lost their job, had a health situation, there was a recession, all of

the factors that can happen in life to where now you go, "Oh gosh, I'd rather not have a mortgage when life comes at me." >> So that's why I have the money in things where I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to put this money in the S&P 500

or some one of the markets that can fluctuate day by day. This isn't something that is safe like I was talking about either high yield savings accounts or the money market to where I can take that money out any time. If we did lose our job or let's say the money market or high yield savings accounts got down to 3.5. I could just take that

money and pay off the mortgage that day.

>> Okay. Well, have fun having a disagreement in your marriage for the rest of your life. >> Oh, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

>> That's not fair. >> Her security glands flaring up. It's not because of Ramsay. It's because there's something in her that knows that peace is more than just the spread. And that's what she's after. Nobody can come after your house. You own it free and clear.

If life happens, you're going to be okay. And the truth is, you're probably going to be okay either way. And so

paying it off, do you really think you'd sit there and go, gosh, I could have made $5,000 this year off that savings

account. Or you going to go, man, it feels good to not have a mortgage. And the flexibility we now have, the options we now have, the freedom we now have was well worth it.

Yeah, and I agree. I think it's a little bit of both. I think uh nobody's ever going to regret not having a mortgage.

Nobody's going to say, "Man, I wish I had my mortgage back." But uh you know, part of me would always be like, "Ah gosh, that's $2,000 this year. I could have bought a new >> How much do you guys make something?" You know, >> um I do about 140 150 a year and she

does uh probably 200 250.

>> Okay. So $2,000 is a drop in the bucket.

We can both It's like kind of saying I'm doing the credit card game for the rewards. I like getting two grand free and I know it's not a big amount, but it just feels nice, >> right? >> Yeah. You know, I'm sitting here listening, by the way, I'm always on this side like either I'm on with Dave or I'm on with a money personality and this call comes in and I'm always just sitting here, you know, it's like letting them do it and I'm like and I'm just listening for what's really going on.

there's two things I heard you say a minute ago and George started talking.

He talked over. He was so rude. So, I didn't pick up what he what you said, but I thought you said about the $2,000

>> and then like I could have bought a mountain bike. Did you say that or am I hearing things? >> Yeah, I was I was just kidding around.

But yeah, could be weren't. But see, you weren't.

I I'm not a money expert, but I can tell you this. I've coached over 15,000 people live before. I'm an expert at hearing things and seeing things. And when I heard that, I went, "That's not a joke." And I'm going to tell you what I think's going on with this thing between you and your wife.

because George has explained it beautifully. So, I have nothing to add to that. But, let me tell you what I think's going on. Your wife is looking at this emotionally and you're looking at this logically.

And I think you look at all money things as logic.

You're a smart guy. You're not a goofball. You're not a loser. You've been very wise with money. I just think you're going to have to decide in this situation, how important is it to me to

make the $2,000 every year and either bank it or buy the mountain bike off of my interest and I feel so good about my logical choice or do I want to meet my

wife where she is and where she is emotionally and help her feel safe. I think that's the choice. That's my read and I think you just look at it totally different than she does. I think you need to walk a mile in her shoes for a little bit.

>> The question is, is it worth paying 12 grand in interest to make 12 grand in a savings account? Basic math tells me it's a wash, dude. I'm just going to [music] pay it off and get some peace in my life and happy wife.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dan joins us next in Mesa, Arizona. Dan, how can we help you today?

>> Yes, sir. [music] Thank you for uh taking the call. I've been suffering in poverty for uh all my life pretty much and uh I have a plan uh and uh there's

some details around that but that's my question. >> Okay, tell us more. >> How do I get out of this poverty? What do am I on the right track and what can I do? >> Well, okay, let's start with where you are. Uh what is your income?

>> Right now I have income of about 1,400 with social security disability and I have a part-time labor job for about a

100red a week. My income last year on taxes was about just under 21K, which is

impossible to live on, of course. >> Yeah. Now, I'm I'm curious about the the

um the um disability because you're working

part-time. What is the part-time job?

>> The part-time job is working at the grocery store as a courtesy clerk, bagging groceries, lifting water, pushing old lady carts out for them, trying I try to make people feel good and have a blessing. I'm the last face they see before they walk up. >> Dan, you're a Dan, you're a good man.

What but what is your what is your disability and how does it limit you from working more?

>> Well, I'm

it's it's psychiatric. I've had I've had deep trauma in childhood >> and I've been in recovery from alcoholism for 28 years coming up December 4th. But there's a lot of these uh underlying issues and problems which have really prevented me from >> thinking clearly about money uh making clear good choices and um you know making bad decisions like that. So the the disabilities I can't really function that good in a workplace and a lot of depression and personality problems but

>> Well, how are you doing at the grocery store? >> Well, I do excellent at the grocery store. >> And why do you think that is?

because I started doing a special therapy for trauma called EMDR in March.

>> Yeah. >> And it took me from staring at the wall for a year and a half to uh working feeling good and taking a uh I took a training and got a certificate in Google data analytics uh uh from March until now. >> Way to go. >> I'm looking to uplevel. I'm trying to uplevel, but the thing is I got to get off social security for the first time since 2000, which is somewhat terrifying. >> I think that's the root of this.

>> I do too. And Dan, I want to tell you,

keep at it. And I would ask your therapist, get a professional opinion on

whether or not you, she or he feels like you can go to full-time work. Let's take some baby steps to this. And let's move

into if we can full-time at the grocery store because you're psychologically safe there right now. Sounds like.

>> Well, the problem I can't do full-time at the grocery store, which is a complex thing about the way they do their positions. I tried that in March which didn't turn out. So that's what made me turn back towards tech because I went to graduate school for research methods in the 90s, right? And I've got all the statistical background and now we've got all this new technology.

AI coming, data analytics is hot.

um and you're doing some work and so I think getting some wins here is super important. You would agree with that, correct? Not just financial wins, but psychological, mental, and emotional wins. So, here's where I'm going, Dan.

I would have never guessed, nor would anybody in this vast audience would have ever guessed the trauma. We still don't know. It's none of our business. But we wouldn't have guessed any of that based on how you described how you treat people and what you do at the grocery store.

So, I'm gonna tell you something, man. I just I wish I could reach through the phone and give you a hug and say that I think you're stronger than you think you are.

heard thousands upon thousands of calls,

I I heard a man who is full of joy. and

not only full of joy, but like gives joy. I got goosebumps when you described

that you want to be the last face they see as they go to their car. I mean, there's a guy who's been through so much pain and has made it through just enough

to be able to give joy when you've had

very little joy.

So, there's my locker room speech, Dan.

But here's where I'm going. If the grocery store won't move you to fulltime, what about Target? What about

Walmart? What about any other big box stores who need somebody like you who's going to show up broken? Yes. Joyful?

Yes. And you're going to give yourself away. I'd like to see you take that step

and let's see if we can get full-time pay and some benefits at one of those bigger stores >> and share some of your story. Don't share all the darkness. Don't share. But just go, "Hey, I've been through a lot.

I'm 28 years sober." I hear that from somebody and I go, "Rock on, baby.

I I I have mad respect for you, Dan."

So, I want you to carry that and let's see if we can get to one of those roles, get more income in, and get off of Social Security while we are making the

inroads and connecting. And I'm gonna give you my book, The Proximity Principle is my gift to help you make connections to get into technology. Now, that's my that's my little speech, but I

meant every word of it. And I think >> I appreciate you. That was amazing. That really helps me a lot.

>> In my heart. >> Well, good. Because I think your head and your heart need to get on the same page. >> Yes, sir. >> You've lost trust in Dan, and we're telling you he's worth trusting in again. It's worth betting on yourself.

>> I stand with Dan. I'd call every store

in Mesa and I'd vouch for you

because there's no there's nobody among us today that doesn't have some brokenness.

So, I think you're going to have to step up a ladder on this. >> Yeah. The way out of this is income. And the good news is if you make so much working that you lose SSDI, good.

>> That's great. >> That's exactly what you wanted, isn't it? Cuz that's the only path out of this is making enough that you can lose it and not miss it. and cover your bills.

>> George, take two minutes and walk him through step by step. Let's assume he's gotten that money now. Walk him through setting up a budget and trusting himself that he doesn't need social security.

>> Yeah. Right now you're going, "Well, budget what money?" You know, you don't have enough coming in. But once you have three $4,000 coming in and your expenses stay where they are at, I'm assuming 2,000 bucks a month. How how much are you living off of right now?

>> 1,800. >> 1,800. So, can you imagine having an extra,000 or 2,000 bucks left over after your bills are covered? What kind of life that could provide for you?

Your ability to save, to invest, to give, cuz I can tell you're a generous guy who has a heart for that. It's going to change everything. So, you list out your income, you list out your expenses, and the good news, there's going to be money left over when you believe in yourself and go, I'm going to do the kind of work that I was made to do.

You're passionate about serving people.

And that could be through analytics.

That could be at Target. It doesn't matter. The key is you're worth more than a hundred bucks a week. Can we agree on that? >> Yes, sir. >> Dan, I'm gonna tell you those tears are

not a sign of weakness, man.

>> Well, these jobs, you know, they start at 100K. These jobs.

>> Yeah. >> I've been on disability since 2000. If I got a $6,000 take-home check, [laughter]

I'd be on my knees. I'd be walking around. >> So, let me tell you what you're going to do. You're going to get yourself a ticket and you're going to come to Nashville and you're going to wait to meet George and I in the lobby. We're going to come out and we're going to give you a big bear hug and we're going to have the whole lobby just cheer. Dan.

Dan. Dan. Dan. Let me tell you something. The Dan we're talking to today who's here today and made the call today has got enough strength to be the Dan that you want to be. You better believe that, my man. Hang on the line.

We're going to get you the proximity principle. That is your homework assignment [music] to get that $100,000 a year job.

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[music]

[music] >> Miguel joins us in Los Angeles, California. Miguel, how can we help?

>> Hello, guys. Thank first of all, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, you bet. What's going on?

>> Yeah, well, I simply just need help figuring out what to do with my home and debt situation. Uh, if I may give you a brief background, my wife and I bring home about $11,000 a month, including

$1,000 from a ADU that we rent out. But

our mortgage has a balance of 182,000.

Uh, it's a 15-year loan with 2.5% and we

make a payment about $1,950.

But we also have a heliloc with a high balance of $160,000 at around 9% that we're paying $1,200 of

interest every month. Now, aside from that, we have about $27,000 in other debt. So, my question is, should I

refinance my existing mortgage and HELOC

together to make one payment even though

I'd lose the 2 and a.5% rate?

>> What' you take out the heliloc for?

Well, it was before I knew about you guys, but I uh had about $30,000 in

credit card debt that I paid off and to

build that ADU that [snorts] I built for my mom to to live in.

>> So, 30,000 turned into 160.

>> Well, 30,000 of credit card debt and then 130 for the ADU.

>> Got it. Okay. I would not roll this into

one giant loan. Number one, it doesn't change the behavior. And number two, it's not going to change the numbers all that month, all that much. Now, your HELOC being at 160 and your annual income, what's your gross household income? Are we talking like 175, 180?

>> Yeah, around 170, 175.

>> Okay. So, because the HELOC is over half your annual income, you can kind of lump it into baby step six, which means you're focused on paying off that other 27,000 right now. And once that's knocked out, we'll just tackle the 160 with your fantastic income, which is going to go pretty fast. And let that interest fuel your anger towards this and towards the mistakes to go never again. I'm not going to put myself in this position.

>> Now, now, George, uh even though we bring those $11,000 a month, and in the

past before I knew knew about you guys, we were only saving about $1,500

uh per month. So, I want to know what are the Ramsey approved things that we are allowed to pay each month like utilities, insurance, and what else should go to to debt? I'm curious about that. >> Well, you cover your four walls: food, utilities, housing, transportation.

You're going to cover your insurance, and you're going to cover all of your minimum debt payments. Outside of that, zero spending. We're not eating out.

We're not upgrading things for fun.

We're not buying furniture. It is survival mode. And then you have 11,000.

If we can cut your spending down to 4,000, there's $7,000 left to throw at the debt.

You see how the math works on this?

>> Yeah, I can see it going away pretty pretty quick. >> Yeah. Well, your 27,000 is gone in just a few months. Less than four months, you'd clear that. If you can live off of four and throw the other seven at debt.

So, I don't know what your expenses are.

You're going to have to make a budget tonight with your wife. You can use every dollar to do that and go, "All right, we make 11. Our barebones expenses to get by is $5,000. Well, that

means you got six grand left to throw at your smallest debt, which means it's getting knocked out quick. And once you knock out the 27, you freed up a bunch of payments, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I wouldn't have any other other >> And you guys have any savings?

Well, we had about $20,000 in savings that I used to pay additionally about that 27,000 in debt that we had some car loans and um uh some other uh medical

bills. >> Oh, so you liquidated savings to pay off debt. And so now you're back to how much in there?

>> It's only a,000. >> Okay. So once you're done with this consumer debt, the 27, I would go through that baby step three process and save up 3 to 6 months and then kind of put that heliloc in that baby step six territory. And that way cuz it's going to take a little while.

And so if we lump it in kind of next to that mortgage, it'll wait a little while to get there. And that interest, it'll get knocked out quicker than you think. When you guys have 11 grand uh with a lot of margin left to throw at it, you can be done with this thing.

>> I mean, if it's available, yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind. Both my wife and I are locked into getting this paid off as soon as possible. So, I say >> then we're talking two years.

>> Oh, nice. >> And so, instead of hanging on to the Sealock forever, rolling it into a giant loan that you then take 15 years to pay off, you can knock it out in two if you keep it separate.

>> Awesome. >> That's what I would do, man. Thanks, Miguel. Appreciate the call. You got this. Let's go to Tracy in New Hampshire. Tracy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling because my husband recently lost his job and we're currently looking at health insurance through my employer and we're looking at a high deductible plan and I'm wondering

if we should put money in the HSA that will be attached to that plan or if we should put that money into savings or if we should apply it towards debt. Great question. Do you know of any kind of upcoming medical expenses you might need to cover?

>> Um, yeah. So, I um have pushed off an

MRI that I'm going to need on my knee.

And so, that's been scheduled for January. So, that will be about $1,300.

And depending on um how that comes out,

I will either need a surgery or that that's where my doctor thinks that we're going to end up um and maybe um physical therapy if not. >> Okay. In that case, I would fund the HSA with as much as you're going to need. And so, you kind of run it through there. You can kind of use it as a scing fund. I wouldn't overfund it right now in baby step 2, but if you know you're going to have $2,000 worth of medical expenses, let's at least fund $2,000 worth of HSA in there for the year.

>> Okay. So, my employer will put in um

about 1,400 for the year um just by

signing up for that plan. We don't have to put anything into the HSA.

>> Wow. So you would Yeah, that part is like really great and that was one of the reasons why we were really considering that as the plan to go with.

Um so um so since we know that we're

going to have to pay for the MRI um the

deductible for one individual, it's going to it's 5,500.

Um so initially I was looking at putting 7,000 for the year in >> You're not going to need seven grand in there.

Okay. So, >> I wouldn't be maxing it out. I wouldn't be overfunding it. You can you're going to get 1,400 from your employer.

You can then set up kind of a syncing fund style where you go, "Hey, I'm going to take out 200 from each paycheck. That way, there's 2,400 in there after 12 months." And that'll sort of cover the ongoing medical expenses you have or dental, vision work for the family, anything like that going on.

>> Okay. >> Once you're in baby step four, you can look at maxing that out outside of your 15% retirement.

>> Okay. Baby step four. Um and then so for

right now, um should we be taking any

extra money? So, um, my husband

literally last week lost his job. Um, so

>> should we be taking any extra money and just putting that into savings until he gets another full-time job or what would you recommend um for >> Yeah, you guys are in storm mode right now. So, I would be living on a barebones budget. Just cover the essentials. Food, housing, utilities, transportation, insurance. Do you have any uh you have your debt, so make your minimum debt payments, but you may want to pause on the debt snowball until we have some stability. >> What was his income?

>> Um he made his base income was 4,800 per

month and then he made quarterly commissions on top of that.

>> Okay. And did he get any kind of severance?

>> Um no, but he will qualify for unemployment, but that won't kick in for a few more weeks. But um >> we don't want that. We do not want that.

I'm going to tell you what I'm going to tell you this right now. And as his wife, I'm glad you're on the call. Um, research has shown that losing a job, whether you're laid off, fired, doesn't matter. It's the emotional equivalent of losing a loved one. He's in a really tough spot right now. And I'm going to tell you, one of the best things he can do is to actually just go get a job. I

know it's it's an interim, right? But just some type of work just to be

staying active. He's still contributing.

Is it going to be as much as he was making? Maybe, maybe not. But I would go get a job while he's looking for the next right job. That's super important.

I would encourage him. You can tell him, "I said that, but let's get some more money coming in. We don't want to go to unemployment.

[music]

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Ashley joining us now in San Francisco,

California. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you for having me. >> You bet. What's going on? >> I am a I am a uh small business um

owner. I've been in business for about 5 years and I've been doing pretty well financially for the last four years um until January hit and now a lot of the

current administration's policies have hit about every single section of my job. >> What business are you? What tell me about your business?

>> So, um I'm a consulting firm that helps to support humanitarian initiatives with corporations, colleges, and school districts. So essentially they bring me in as a consultant to repurpose their furniture and fixed assets with charities around the world.

>> Okay. And I'm just curious, not trying to get into a political rabbit hole, but how how are the how are the current policies affecting your income?

>> So first off, you know, we're we're a womenowned certified small business. So the DEI initiative, we took a pretty hard hit with that in January. um the

grants for the university is being revoked. Um that caused some cash crunches for some of the the programs and some of the projects that they do traditionally over the summer. >> Gotcha. >> Um you know, funding for the public schools, you know, obviously if they don't if programs are being let go or,

>> you know, Department of Education is, you know, being restructured, all of those things, school districts are downsizing themselves and kind of wondering how they're going to have the programs that they need to take care of their students, >> right? And then the obviously the tariffs which we all know that's a subject in and of itself but how are those factors combined? >> Okay. All right. So bottom line is is that money has dried up. What was coming in freely to pay for your consultancy uh services have dried up.

>> Yeah. And what where I'm at right now is like I've done you know I knew that this was coming. So you know as as each hit kept coming into play you know I kept restructuring kept trying to shift things. you know, I started laying people off. I, you know, I changed insurance plans for benefits for the employees I still had. You know, tried to reduce costs across the board. But now I'm at a a situation where um my

husband got sick and he was hospitalized for two months and he's also my business partner. So, we're at a point right now where um I'm starting to get work in

queue for next spring, like heavy in for next spring and potentially next summer.

>> Great. But obviously that is not going to help me now.

>> Um because I still have I have some pretty goodiz bills that I still owe.

>> And how many full-time team members do you have? Like what does your payroll look like?

>> Right now it's just me. >> Okay. So it's just you. What kind of debt do you have?

>> Um so basically I've got one vendor right now that I'm about 140 days overdue that I owe him 60,000.

>> Um >> what's that debt for?

Um it's so basically in I work with

thirdparty vendors at times. Um some entities that I work with want an all in in they want an all-inclusive cost for my service. So um there is some of my work that I do sub subcontract out. So

um >> I'm still confused how you just took on 60 grand in debt. >> Yeah. Did you get paid and then you kept it and didn't pay the defender?

Basically what ended up happening was over the course of the summer um I had to let all of my employees go. And so basically in order to do that I had to pay out all of their medical expenses, their insurance, their vacation time and all of that. So by the time everything was all said and done so that I didn't have the IRS on my back, um it was either pay them or

um basically pay my vendor is ultimately what it came down to. So, I'm in a situation right now where I need to pay them the money that's rightfully owed them >> and also what's your total debt and all of that. >> My total debt right now is 250,000.

>> 250,000. Where's the rest of this debt?

>> Yeah. So, I've got right now I have um

so 60,000 60,000 for that. Um I have a

couple of vehicles on the company which are about which equal to about 90,000.

I've got credit card debt for about 80,000.

Um, I have an office lease here for about 5,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> Insurance and all that other stuff. >> Okay, this is a highly leveraged business. >> Yeah, this is crazy. Uh, just a practical question. How >> how much money do you have you've laid it out how much money you've got to bring in to cover the basics?

>> Yeah, I mean, I have that figured out. I mean, up until this year, I was I was bringing in over I was I was grossing

last year, I grossed 2.5 million, and this year I'll be lucky to >> No, no, I get it. I'm just saying, do you are you going to be able to take care of you and your husband?

>> Can you make all of your payments and cover all your bills right now as it stands? >> And that's why I'm calling you guys is because right now I'm trying I'm at a point right now where I am real.

>> So, there's zero income coming in this month. >> Yes or no? I we're not getting a straight answer from you.

>> There is income coming in. Yes. But it's what I'm looking for is I'm at a point right now where I'm just realizing that I'm not realizing, but there's expenses or there's bills that I know that I'm going to need to pay that I need to cover between now and April of next year. >> So, and you don't have any contracts coming in. So, >> get contracts when we get a different job. And is your husband working now? Is he back to

>> My husband is back. I do I do have contracts, but as a small business owner, the contracts that are confirmed that are over a h 100,000 don't hit until next spring.

>> We I understand that. I understand that.

I'm not talking about next April. I'm talking to a lady who's absolutely drowning in debt. And I'm wondering how you and your husband are going to pay your bills. I haven't heard anything on this call about how you make money between now and April.

>> And that's why I'm calling you guys is to say, "What are my potential options?" Now, >> I know, but I got to get a straight I can start with this. We can sell the $90,000 worth of cars we have.

>> Sell the cars.

>> I'm guessing you're underwater on both of them. >> Go get a job. >> What are the cars worth?

>> The cars The cars are under lease right now. >> They're a lease.

>> Yes, they're leased. >> Then what's where's the 90,000 in car loan debt?

>> Um because that's when the leases run out. That's how much the leases are for right now for the contract.

>> Goodness gracious. Why do you need luxury cars to run a humanitarian consulting firm?

>> They're not luxury cars. They're used for transportation >> like vans. >> They're business. Yes, they're Yes, they're for business use. >> Okay. And right now, >> you live in California. It's not It's not cheap living here. >> Yeah. Well, that's my next question. Do we need to move out?

You're living in one of the highest cost cities in America.

So, can you do this business from elsewhere? >> Where am I where am I going to go? because anywhere that I go, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to provide three times my income.

>> Well, again, >> small business owner to boo. >> I I agree. I appreciate George. That's not the right question. The question that we've got to answer, and you keep saying, well, that's why I called you guys and I got bad news for you. We don't make money for people.

>> I can tell you >> I'm not looking to make money. What I'm what I'm saying is I'm >> I don't want to go I don't want to go out right now and get a loan and end up

with something like the gentleman who had mentioned that he had an ridiculous interest rate. >> Yeah, we're not we're never going to suggest you get a loan. What I'm saying is maybe this business needs to pause right now if you can't get contracts and both of you need to get full-time jobs doing other things or four side jobs each in order to cover the bill >> during this storm. everything, >> which would be great except that my husband is in rehab right now.

>> You just told me he was back to work.

>> He's back to work part-time. Yes, but he's in a he's in a rehabilitation facility. >> Okay. So, then it's on you.

>> Yes, it's on me. >> That's what we're trying to say. We're not mad at you, but we're we're sort of frustrated for you to go, Ashley. The fix here is you got to bring in some income now in the short term or this

whole thing. It may not be from your business if that's not a viable solution, which means it isn't. Use your skills to go do something else right now to float you until those contracts come in. Then we can write the ship. But right now, you built a house of cards with all of this debt that's mounted.

So, there's pressure. >> And while we're at it, while we're throwing a lot of advice at you because But you got to get on the phone with this vendor and go, "Let me tell you my story.

Here's what I had to do. your story is the best policy, the truth, and I owe you and I'm going to pay you and I got this much coming in in April, but you have got to batten down the hatches.

It's an old phrase to get ready for the

storm cuz you were in the middle of it.

The winds are howling. And what we're telling you is you got to go get some income in for you and your husband first and foremost. It's just you as the employee now. So, we're not worried about that. and and I'd go to the vendor and I'd explain what's going on and come up with a plan. But I mean, we're talking about urgency and that's all we got for you.

>> You're you might need to pivot this business. If the grant money's all dried up and nobody's coming for you for the contracts, we're going to have to figure out another way to make this work long term.

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>> [music]

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coverage. Now, I'm going to say that again because between the hash and the dash, I'd want somebody to say it again for me. And so, I'm a man of the people, so I'm going to say it. It's ramiesolutions.comalth-

coverage. The dash symbol, that's important. Or honestly, if you're like me and you never will remember that, go to the show notes because it's just a

link in the show notes. And so, all right, >> don't make Ken type things out. >> Don't make >> he will fat finger it. [laughter] >> And I have narrow fingers, by the way.

>> 404 user error. That's what Ken gets.

>> Well played, George. Tom is up in Dallas, Texas. Tom, how can we help?

>> Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Um, I'm

nervous about retiring. I don't know

what to do. Uh, I'm of the age and uh,

my situation would allow it. I'm just too used to getting up at 3:00 a.m. and going to work and working 10 12 hours a day. >> Wow. I think this is actually a really fun uh, problem. I don't even think you have a problem and I I'm really excited to walk you through this. Let's get some of the the details. You are how old, Tom?

I'll be 70 here right right quick.

>> Fantastic. And uh how much money do you have in retirement accounts?

>> About 500 500,000.

>> Okay. And because you said I'm of the age and of the means where I can walk away. So uh is it just you? Are you married?

>> Yes, I am married. >> Okay. And does your wife have any retirement accounts?

>> No. Uh there's a 19-year spread between

us. She's still working, still enjoying what she's doing. >> All right. Way to go, Tom, with the younger lady. Very impressive, sir. Um

so, uh your social security, if you walked away today, what would that be?

>> I had my my fiduciary has talked me into

collecting now instead of waiting to get the extra $300. Uh, so right now after

the taxes I'm having them pull out now is 3,400 a month.

>> And you have any other source of income?

Pensions, anything else? Rental income.

>> Yeah, there's a very small pension.

>> Okay. So, it's basically your $3,400 a month of social security plus your $500,000 that you could withdraw from.

Correct. >> Yeah.

>> And what is your $3,800 pension?

>> What's your wife's income?

about uh 30,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, do I understand you to say that if and I'm not saying you want to, but if you were to retire today and walk away, do you feel financially like you'd be very comfortable?

>> I that's the question. I' I've never had

a budget. I've only started listening to you guys lately. Everything I have, motorcycle, bass boats, house, everything is paid for. >> Good. >> I I owe no one nothing. So your monthly

expenses between her 30,000 and your 4,000 if you didn't even touch the retirement accounts, you could live off of that just fine.

>> Oh yeah. >> Okay. And so really now it becomes a I'm just used to working for the last 40 plus years and getting up early. You can still get up early.

Nobody's going to stop you from doing that. And you can still work. It just doesn't have to be obviously in the job you've been at for 40 years. So now you go, okay, I've got a lot of skill that I have accumulated over all these years working.

I've got a lot of experience. So it's not just skill, but it's just know how to use the skill. You know what you enjoy doing after all these years. So if it were me, Tom, and and I actually preach this all the time.

You know, if you want to keep getting up at 3:00 a.m., find something to do between 3:00 am and, you know, whatever time you would go to work.

Do you have to work 40 hours a week? No.

So those 10 12 hour days, you don't have to do that anymore, but you can do something you really enjoy that actually produces a result that you care about.

And I think that's what you're looking for at this stage of life. If financially it's the it's the right move.

>> Yeah. Um our nut every month is only

about $900 to $1,000.

Um yeah, just the the four walls. If you >> You're saying your total expenses are a,000 bucks a month?

>> Yeah. Water, electric, all all of that stuff. >> Well, that's great news. That's great.

You guys are very frugal. Yeah.

>> Is the house paid for? >> Yeah. Yes, sir.

>> Wow. Tom, way to go.

>> You could have retired off much less, my friend. You could have retired 10 years ago. >> I mean, the reality is, Tom, when I look at this just on on paper, you you've got a lot of margin just on your social security check.

Oh, and I and I realize that what I'm having an issue with is how to not come

in and sit on a bulldozer all day because I really enjoy it.

>> You do enjoy sitting on the bulldozer.

>> Yeah. >> Get you a little bulldozer in the backyard and you just go out there and sit. [laughter] You just enjoy just enjoy the weather.

>> You know what? That's not a bad idea.

But no, you know what, Tom? Let's ask it this way.

What would walking away from that job, would there be anything about that you would go, that's a relief or I'm kind of glad I'm not doing that?

>> Yeah, my bosses are all the same age as my oldest kids and [laughter] um I just

this is not the industry I came to work in. >> Okay, let me ask you this.

Um, what is it worth it to you to look around and see if there's any older guys that have a small small business and they need somebody reliable and they they're pulling their hair out because they've been trying to get like 22 year olds to show up and be dependable and and everything else and you come along, they go, "You're kidding me. You've been doing this for 40 years and you want to continue to to to drive a bulldozer and you go, I do, sir." And he's going to go, "How much you want to get paid?" I think that's possible.

>> Um, yeah, it takes some investigation.

Yeah. Yeah. >> I think that's what I would look to.

Somebody out there, Tom, is a is

probably closer to your age or a little bit different culture, what you're looking for, and they need somebody like you that knows knows how to operate a large machine.

And I think that's there. They don't care how old you are.

>> I think you've got some homework to do.

uh >> you've had this laid out in front of you where you just go, "Well, I got to wake up and go to work and now it's time for you to dream again." And that's the scary part. So, I would sit down and write down all the things you could do, want to do, want to try. Write down a schedule of what your life would look like, and then go try it. Take a week off and go, I'm going to try this out and see if I like it.

And if you don't, change it up. That's right. And maybe your wife is scared that you're going to be laying around the house bothering her. Is that part of the deal?

[laughter] >> Oh, no.

>> Yep. I I have too many hobbies and too many projects. >> What's the hobby you wish you had more time for right now?

>> Uh fishing, working in my shop.

>> You could spend all day doing that. What would you What would you make in the shop?

>> I've worked on everything but a submarine and a satellite, and that's cuz they can't get them to me.

[laughter] >> Wow. I love Tom. No, Tom. I I appreciate

the funny answer. No one loves having more fun on the show than me, but give me an answer. What would be something that you would make in the shop? If you were focused on one thing you're like, I could actually fix this or make this and somebody would buy it. What would come to mind?

>> Uh, automobile parts. I I build

everything I drive. I I build it from the ground up.

I just wonder, Tom, if you don't just start a little fun mechanic business or

whatever, whatever that is, Tom's brakes

and rotors. >> Yeah, you're talking to the two wrong guys to classify that. But we we know

what you're saying. I just wonder if you don't start that on the side for a bit and see how that goes, you know. Um,

yeah, I I I did years ago and uh was was

good at it and and um customers thought

they own me, so I kind of backpedalled out of it. >> Well, now it's on your terms. >> Yeah. You know your way around a clutch pack piston, Tom? [laughter] >> What are you talking about?

>> I just wanted to see. I wanted to test his knowledge. >> Tom, is that a thing?

>> Well, yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. But I

don't buy it from the store. I just build it. That's right. Builds it >> like a real American. >> I think you start your own business today in your head and start doing it.

Start customizing Tom stuff. No customer. >> I wish I had a Tom in my neighborhood. He could really help me out. >> I put Tom to work.

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken

Coleman. George Campbell joins me and we're going to talk to Stephanie here in Las Vegas. Stephanie, how can we help today? >> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's going on?

>> So, my husband and I can't agree on a budget for buying a house. How can I convince him to up our budget?

>> I have some if you want it.

>> Well, yeah. You got to lay the case out. You gotta pretend like George and I are u Supreme Court judges and we got to hear the facts because we don't know. We don't know who's right, who's wrong, and you're telling us uh I want help making

the case to up the spend on the house.

So, yes, >> break it down for us.

>> Okay. Okay, we're currently a single inome military family, but my husband will be retiring in the next 2 to 3 years, and that's when we'll be buying a house. After my husband retires, we'll have dual income, plus we'll have his retirement check, so we'll be making a lot more money than we're currently making. And over the last 18 years, we saved a good amount of money and we because we're frugal, both of us, and we've earmarked about $300,000 as like a down payment.

My husband wants to buy a house basically all in cash and is only concerned about the price. So, he doesn't care about the area that we live in or that with that budget, the house is most likely going to be a fixer upper.

with the mindset that we pay it off as quickly as we can because we're frugal and we'll have that additional income.

The math comes out that our mortgage would be less than 25% of our take-home pay at that time. Um, and my concern is

that I want a good school district for my kids and a good area for us to live in. And I'd prefer a house that we don't need to put a lot of work into because we've lived in some crummy places being in the military the last 18 years. And so I just want to settle down and have a nice house that we can relax and enjoy.

>> That all sounded so reasonable.

>> So where is he coming from that he is frightened by the idea of, I don't know, a $1,500 mortgage?

>> I don't know. I we as adult, like our

whole adult life since we've been married, we've never had any debt at all. We've never bought a car and took

out a loan on it, like any of that stuff. So, I don't know if it's just that we'd be taking a large loan and we've never owed money before.

>> When you say large loan, you mean the 150? >> Yes. The $150,000.

I mean, that's large to us. >> And what would the payment be? You've done the math. Is it about 1,500 on a 15-year fixed? >> It would be 1,500. Yes.

>> Okay. And then your take-home pay would be 67 $8,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Our take only pay would be a little over $8,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, this is all very reasonable.

It's all green flags as far as the Ramsey parameters. And I think the part we need to compromise on is you going, "Hey, we're going to have an aggressive plan to pay this thing off early." So, if you said, "Hey, we're taking on this 150. We're going to knock it out in two years." Would he say, "Okay, great."

>> I I don't know.

I know that he's just very concerned about that amount of money and I don't know if it's from growing up like childhood money issues or if it's just

that it's such a large amount.

>> Sure. Well, this is not a consumer debt.

So, we're not going to put it in the category of this is stupid. We're always going to encourage 100% down if you can.

Uh but if this is something where hey, three years from now we we need to buy a house. If you want to wait a year and just keep stacking cash and get even closer, that might be a good compromise, too. But I don't like this idea that unless we have the cash, we're never we're not going to do this at all or we're going to get a fixer upper.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, you're on my side.

>> Yeah, I'm on your team. The question is he needs to be willing to come to your side a little bit.

>> Okay. >> There needs to be a little bit of negotiation so he can feel like, all right, I want a little bit >> and I that's the part I want to address.

So Stephanie, based on what you know, you talked with George, what what do you think is the emotional holdup? What, in

other words, what do we need to address with him to where he goes, "Oh, I'm not giving into my wife. I actually see it the way she sees it. There's something that's holding him back. What is it specifically?" >> Um, I think that he likes to be in control with money and just like in general being like

the leader of the house. I don't know.

And so like having no control I like feeling of not having control because we owe this money. I think that's part of his like hangup that >> But can I tell you what's behind that?

>> Sure. >> Fear, >> right? >> And have you guys had a conversation about this where it got tense or has it all been pretty chill?

>> Oh, no. I mean, we've talked about this for probably two years now and we literally cannot agree. So, this has been a two-year >> Is it tense >> discussion in our household? Um, no. He

just shuts down the conversation basically. >> Well, that's tense.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. I was going to say when someone when the other part of the of the marriage shuts the other one down, that's tense. I don't care how it's done. It's still tense.

>> I think you're going to have to sit with him and go, "Hey, I want to understand.

I'm not trying to convince you anymore.

Mhm. >> We've [clears throat] gone round and round and round, but I do want to understand.

>> Okay. >> I I want to understand. And you can blame George and I. You called us up.

You You know, if you don't think that's going to upset him because it's not like three. What it can't sound like is three against one. >> Well, I told him I was calling you guys.

>> And how did how did he feel about that?

>> He said, "Okay." He said, "Hopefully, they take my side." >> Okay, great. Well, well, I you Here's what you can say. Here's what George said. And then you could say, "Ken took your side, but Ken didn't take your money side. Ken took your emotional side."

>> Okay? >> And I mean this.

>> Mhm. >> And and here's where I'm going. He is allowed to be fearful.

>> Mhm. >> He is allowed to because there's

something in his past that shapes the way he views money and and the where he

institutes control.

And I don't and I appreciate what you said like he's got to be the man of the house. That's not what it is. It comes across probably as bravado, but that's not what it is. He's a scared little boy and I'm not insulting him.

[clears throat] >> I'm I'm telling you as a guy who's had to deal with control issues once I got to the fact that it was about fear of something and then I had to dig deeper and go, what was I afraid of? And it goes way, way, way back. And so on some level, he has that. So the reason I'm telling you that is not to judge him or belittle him, but for you to have some empathy for him and then compassion toward his point of view.

>> And when you sit with him and walk through his point of view as the counter

to all your points of view and you go, I totally understand that. What if I told you that this, you know, and you then you take George's layout. I George, I want you to come in and tie a bow on this, but that's what I'm hearing. >> Yeah, I feel that. I definitely validate his feelings and not go, "Oh, you're crazy. That's not going to help anything." Are you guys living for free right now? >> Um, well, we have like a BAH, so we pay

rent out of military money.

>> How much is the rent? >> Um, the rent right now is $3,000.

>> And he's okay with that?

>> I mean, no, but we're in a high cost of living place and our BH is exactly $3,000. So, it's basically us just paying what the military gives us for housing. So, >> but basically, we're trading 3,000 in rent for, you know, $1,500 mortgage that you're actually going to own, >> right? >> So, I think that's part of the math. The other part of the math is home prices are a moving target. If you waited, you were like, "It's 2019. We should wait until 2022 to buy a home. Good luck.

That house is now 50% more." And so the longer you wait, the more expensive this decision is going going to become. Which is why I tell people when you're financially ready, which you are, you're following the Ramsey plan to a tea. Go ahead and get the house and then pay it off aggressively. Throw four grand a month at it if you want.

Knock it out in less than 3 years. >> You guys set the plan, set the goals, and stay. >> I've got a homework assignment. Christian, uh, I'm going to put her on hold.

Christian, guide her on how she can get to YouTube and pull this segment up. And I think they need to watch it together. Watch it together.

we had no skin in the game. We're actually for you guys figuring this out in a very good way cuz I think it is a good move.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> The Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. When you uh when your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. Yi won't judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance, and regain control. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's yfy.com/ramsey.

not available in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in Washington.

She says, "My husband is 55 and I'm 42.

He's the bread winner of the family and would like to retire in the next 5 to 7 years. Does it still make sense to focus on paying off her house while still investing only the recommended 15%. It seems like your advice is great for younger people, but not people at the end of their careers looking to retire and enjoy life before they die. Please help me understand why investing more now instead of paying off our house is a bad idea.

Well, number one, I don't remember where in our plan it said you should just only enjoy life when you're close to death. I don't remember. That's not baby step eight.

15% in retirement. Then anything beyond that, let's start chunking it at the mortgage. Cuz here's the deal. Paying off your house is a huge part of your ability to be able to retire.

You get rid of that mortgage payment. You get rid of that biggest line item in your budget. Well, now we need less to retire. Would you not agree?

If you've got rid of that $2,000 mortgage payment, you need $24,000 less of net income in order to live. So, I think it's a huge part of your wealth building. And I think if you get aggressive at knocking out that house, you can increase investing to 30 40 50% of your income and make up for a lot of lost time. And she's 42.

So, that's my take on why you shouldn't invest more now. Uh because you go into retirement with a bunch of debt, but you were able to invest. I don't know that that was a winning plan either. >> Yeah. Listen, the plan works. Um you

know, I I it is curious to me the statement, it seems like your advice is great for younger people, but not people at the end of their careers. I that's

>> my guess is they got a late start on investing and so they're going, well, we need to really make up for lost time.

>> Oh, that's what it is. Therefore, why pay pay down this mortgage? >> Yeah. She's just looking for, you know, well, we're just going to go invest invest invest and not pay off the house.

So, >> it sounds like he may not be able to retire in the next 5 years if the math doesn't math. And I don't know that investing a little more is going to get you guys there with that short of a time horizon. >> That's right. It's the long game. The long game. The long game. That's what the the baby steps are about. And and it pays off. Ryan is joining us now in Phoenix, Arizona. Ryan, how can we help?

Hi. Um, I just wanted to know um how me

and my wife can survive keeping her home. Um, our current income uh is

probably about 4,400. Um, I'm in the middle of uh purchasing a business um to

help up that income a bit. Um, I would need to be taking out a loan on uh to

purchase the business.

um we have that would up potentially the potential for it after the expenses uh of the business to up that income to 5,300 a

month. Um and we have a total of 30 or

sorry 344,000 in debt without having that business as the debt.

>> Is that including your mortgage?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Take the mortgage out. What is your consumer debt? about the mortgage?

>> Um 21,000.

>> Okay. What debt is the 21?

>> Uh so 16 will be from credit cards and

5,000 is a car.

>> Okay. And what's this business going to cost? >> Uh business is going to be 40,000.

>> So you're going to go into debt $40,000 to increase your income by 900 bucks.

>> Yes. So, but I'm also going to be keeping my wife home at that point. And that would take care of her. It would up that income and subset her from having >> I don't know how adding more debt to the picture, adding more risk, adding another payment allows her to stay home.

That feels like a some backwards math.

So, I would figure out how if we want to buy this business, do it in cash. I don't think the ROI is there on this business currently.

It sounds like it's overvalued.

So the if after paying all the expenses

which their expenses were about um it would the debt >> that's not counting the payment on the loan that you need to make.

>> No that is including >> so the payment on the loan plus expense of the business. >> I mean I just >> would give me 3,000 a month profit. I I number one I'd never recommend anybody go into debt for any business whether it's your own buying a different business and the cash flow just it's not that impressive overall 900 bucks isn't the difference. So the truth is your wife might need to work until we clean up this other debt.

I don't think the 21,000 in debt is what's stopping you at this point from her working or not working.

We have about 10,000 in savings

um that we are just we've been holding back on like paying off the credit cards because the majority of the credit card debt is on a 0% interest credit card at the moment. We're just making the minimum payments on it. >> You're not selling me with your 0% interest rates, man. >> I know. I know. >> I would knock out the car loan today.

What's the car payment?

>> Uh car payment's 100 a month.

>> Okay. So, you get 100 bucks a month back in your life by knocking out the car.

You can throw another four that credit card debt. You'll knock out a card out of that. What's left? Is that a bunch of cards or one?

>> Uh, it's I have I have like three or

four and they all have like a couple thousand each on them. >> You've done balance transfers to 0%.

>> I've No, I didn't do a balance transfer 0%. I uh the 9,000 was for a a school

like uh purchase for um real uh trying

to learn real estate and so on and so forth on that. Is that your business?

>> No, my business is a pool business in Phoenix next year. >> Okay. And you're buying another pool business? >> No, this is uh I'm purchasing the business for the pool that the pool business is the one that I'm purchasing. >> Got it. What's the what's the uh what are the deal points of the purchase?

>> So, um I'm technically we I did some

research on the pricing of the business.

Um, I'm actually getting from every source that I've looked at, I'm getting a 20% wholesale value of the business.

Currently the the business is currently

um currently worth about uh 60,000 but I'm

being sold to it at 40,000 which is just basically what I'm doing is I'm purchasing all of the customers that are on and I'm also purchasing uh the equipment that was uh >> who's and who's the current owner?

>> Uh it's my brother-in-law.

I mean, I I I gotta say, I've never had anybody ask me advice on buying a business that's worth $60,000, but I don't think that's a great idea.

You you're you're calling about debt and paycheck to paycheck living, and I'm sitting here the whole time going, "How are we going to make this guy some more money?" And you're getting wrapped up in buying a business from your brother-in-law that's grossing $60,000.

That's not a lot.

And I'm not trying to pop your bubble, but is this a wise decision?

>> My main goal is to grow the business and be able to make this my full-time job because there it is a very hot market here in Phoenix being it's so hot in so many pools. Um, and I've been doing my

I've been my wife. >> Drum up new business, find new customers, and make it a sweat equity deal instead instead of you going into debt where you give him a portion of the profits until he's paid out.

Um the the big problem is he uh he's

racked up a lot of credit card debt himself. >> Yeah. See, that doesn't mean you should help him out. >> This is a fire sale. >> Yeah, I know. >> Well, if you know >> he move he moved out of state completely

and that's why he was he was going to sell it to either someone else or he was going to sell it to me. So, it was either one or the two and I he was going to give me a discount and he wasn't. And >> can I tell you something else? I don't know who else he's going to sell that to.

I think I'd renegotiate and no cash.

>> I would say you're going to give it to me for free and I'll give you 50% of the profits for a year and then we're done.

>> That's fair. I like those deal points.

He's desperate.

>> Yeah. I mean, if it's if you make 60 grand of of revenue and net profits are, you know, 40 grand, he gets 20 grand out of the deal for doing nothing.

>> I wouldn't go into it with the terms. I am not in favor of you doing it under the current terms. I think that's a bad deal and you're going to regret that and you might resent your brother-in-law.

That's my concern. And you got to make more money. I got into that whole deal just trying to dig around to go, man, you got to make money.

>> So, you know, George, we talk about

cutting, cutting, cutting. But, man, when you're paycheck to paycheck, yes, you cut, but you better start bringing in more money. >> Yeah. Adding to the debt doesn't help getting out out of that paycheck to paycheck cycle.

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Oh, George, do you like the Christmas deals? >> I like a deal and I like Christmas, so [music] I'm I I love I love a good Christmas deal. Um, and but I don't know anybody that loves a deal more than you.

I don't care if it's an Easter deal, >> a Halloween deal. >> Well, I just I don't like paying full price for anything. That's the truth of it. >> Well, you This is a I could call this a George Camel sale. That would have been a better name. I'm going to be honest. Um, this is our unbelievable Christmas deals that we bring out every year.

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Ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube listening podcast in the old show notes,

they just have links. Anthony is joining us now in Seattle, Washington. Anthony, how can we help today?

>> Hello. Hello, Ken.

>> Hi. >> And George, hope you guys are doing well. >> We are. >> My name is Anthony Pink. I'm over here in Seattle loving life.

>> Great. >> Uh, found Dave Ramsey, 2013 FPU graduate. >> I joked to myself, I thought Chef Ramsey was good with finances and then I found out it was a different person.

>> Disappointing. Disappointing.

>> No, it was it was positive. Um, we've we've been following the baby steps, my wife and I, and I had a general question about tithing on 401k um, interest and

traditional investment. Do you guys do that? Is that suggested by Ramsey?

What's the lowown on that?

>> Well, we're never legalistic about this, but there's a good methodology to think about it to go, okay, the tithe traditionally is on the increase. So, your profits, what you actually take home. So, if my investment grows, but I

never saw the money cuz it's just still sitting in an investment account, I'm not going to tithe on that. But if I sell $10,000 worth of investments and I took that home, that's on my tax return, then sure, you can tithe on that as as this is income we brought above and be above and beyond. So, how is that what you're talking about here with investment growth?

>> Yeah, that's correct.

>> Yep. So, this all the money analogy I think that hits it's enough. Well, the technical term is a realized gain. So, an unrealized gain is, hey, it made money in the investment account, but I haven't actually sold it. The money never went through my fingers. So, if the money goes through your bank account, you can count it as income, and you are free to give on that.

>> I like it. >> Is that simple enough?

>> Simple enough. >> All right. Great question. Thanks for the call. >> I don't know if there was more there, but that's my that's one man's take.

>> Yeah. >> From a math and theological standpoint, I hope it wasn't heresy.

>> But here's the thing. If you want to give more, you're not going to, you know, no one's feelings are going to be hurt. If you want to tithe more, be more generous. But from a biblical standpoint, when I look at the tithe, I go, this is all about the realized gains, the things that you took home.

That's right. >> So, well, if I didn't see the money, >> yeah, >> I'm not going to tithe on it. >> I agree. And I think that again, without going too deep on this, you there was no heresy there. But I would say again, it's tithing, if you dive into it biblically, is about the first fruits, right? And so something that you receive to your point if it's actual income however you get it again that's for your interpretation uh you know that's between you and God.

Scripture is clear on tithing and 10% of first fruits. So um that's that's kind

of why we're not super legalistic on it but we lay out the theology on that and you do what you want with that.

Stephanie is up in Los Angeles, California. Stephanie, how can we help?

Stephanie.

Wow. And >> she waited all this time just to not make it on air. >> We'll try to get her back. Nate is up in New York. Nate, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, how's it going, guys?

>> Good. How are you, sir?

>> I'm doing good. Um, so I'm 19 and uh I'm

starting my first year of college um in January.

Um, and my first year is paid for. I

have a benefactor um who is who is going to take care of all the all the stuff for that except for uh housing and food.

Um and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to save and to budget and to um

have enough for my second year of college. >> Love it. How much is that going to cost?

>> So it's uh it's projected to be about 11,000 a year.

>> Okay. And are there any scholarships or grants or anything available that can lower that amount or is that included?

>> Um, that's not not that I can uh get a hold of. Um, and like I said, I'd like

to like stay out of any um any, you

know, government grants or or government loans or anything like that. >> Well, sure. Do do not take out debt.

That's not what we're talking about here. But if you can get free money, uh, I would do that. And if not, now we got to figure out how to save up $11,000 by whenever the payment is due. So is that December of 2026, >> January of 27? >> Yes. Yeah. Okay. December of 26.

>> So we'll call it a year. So basic math says, let's save up a,000 bucks a month to get there. Can you do that right now working part-time?

>> Um I should be able to. Um I'll be and I

al so right now I'm starting a job. Um,

I'm starting a job at noon tomorrow.

That'll be paying $16 an hour. And then,

um, when I move out there, I have a job for $1,550 an hour.

>> Nice. Um, >> how many hours? >> And that'll be 20 hours. Uh, like

starting out, I'm going to try and get a little bit more. Um, and then, but they have promised me a full-time job with a a pay raise during the summer.

>> Wow. So, you can make up for lost time there. That's exactly what I would do >> because even if you just stuck to the part-time job, you would likely have the perfect amount to cash flow the following year. But if you really ratchet it up in the summer, you'll have the 11 grand plus some. And I would just park it in a high yield savings account all year long and pretend it does not exist. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> This is a great plan, man. I'm proud of you. And you can continue that for the following, you know, the last two years.

>> I should be able to. Um and and I got I

got a pretty good situation. I'm living um living for 550 a month. Um uh that's

that'll be rent and then um you know

food I can live for 50 or $100 a week.

>> I love it. Live like a broke college kid because you are. That's the way to do it, man. I'm proud of you.

>> Keep that up. >> Yeah, I love that. Great discipline there. You know, live like a broke college kid. You know, there's something to that and and and I love that you said this because this is real. So, got to set this up. Got to be careful. Of course, I don't read the comments, so I guess I don't need to be careful. Yeah, you read the comments. >> They will roast you. No, you'll tell me.

They love you, Ken. >> Um, there are a lot of young people naturally so coming out of college and

it's tough to get a job that your degree

said you were going to be able to get. That's real. uh cost of living is very

high. Tough to buy a house in those first couple three years that those days are seemingly gone for a lot of people.

And and yet we forget that when you come

out of college, even though you're out, it's not a bad idea to live like a broke college kid for a little while just to get some stability. I guess my point is is I'm saying I want you to have as much as you can get, but at the same time a little bit of patience, a little bit a little bit of I'm going to live like my grandparents used to live, which is on way less than I actually make. And I

think that that attitude is not very prevalent right now. Am I right or am I wrong? 100% right. The problem is, you know, social media and expectations and friends make you want to live a lifestyle you just can't afford yet.

and you go, I have been in school for 22 years. I want to finally live. I deserve the nice car. I want to live in a nice place.

And all of that leads to being broke.

>> And that's the rub. The people who do that, like our friend here, he's going to be just fine. >> It's going to be great. >> It's the ones who go, I'll take as much monopoly money from Sally May as possible. Oh, and by the way, I want to rent the fanciest apartment in town and I want to have a fancy car. And you go, dude, you can't afford this life. Now, it's going to delay your other dreams. So, don't complain when you can't buy a house cuz you're in crippling debt.

That's not going to help. >> So, that's the key. Live like a broke college kid. Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. >> Speaking of which, real quick on hot seat. Your favorite broke college kid meal. >> Oh gosh. I mean, ramen is hard to beat.

If you have access to hot water, you've got access to a great meal. Add some Sriracha in there. >> I'm gonna go with you. And I'm much older than you. Back in my day, you could buy 10 ramen noodle packs for for for $10.

>> 10 bucks? So, a dollar a pack? I thought it was cheaper. That was like 10 cents a pack. [music]

Our

[music]

[music]

scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 29:4.

Those who are confused [music] will gain understanding and those who grumble will accept instruction. Our quote of the day from Booker T. Washington. Success always leaves footprints.

That's a nice short like bomb of a quote. Like phenomenal. Just boom.

There. I like the brevity. >> Go do your homework. Follow the footsteps. Stephanie's up uh in Los Angeles. Stephanie, how can we help?

>> Yeah. Hey guys. Uh I appreciate you taking the call. >> Sure. Um my husband and I own our home

here in uh actually Napa, California,

and we have been uh talking about doing

an addition to our home. Uh we had to

buy it at um a kind of a rundown um or a

rundown look of it so that we could afford a place here. And so it needed a

lot of attention. And now we're at a point that we're looking to um add a little bit of square footage to a kitchen and living room. And at the moment we're uh we've been talking about doing a second on our home in order to have the cash flow. Um we do have uh

some money set aside um in a savings

account. I just uh am hesitant to want

to use the money in a savings account versus um the second >> versus putting your home on the block at risk as collateral with a second mortgage and adding a payment.

>> Yes, >> that sounds more exciting to you than liquidating the savings that you had earmarked for this specific thing.

>> Yeah. And and maybe that's me being a little nervous and intimidated on letting uh cash out of uh What that

does, it gives you the reality of what you're actually about to do. That's a good thing. That's your body saying, "Hey, a home addition is expensive. You sure you want to do this?" And when you take out a second mortgage, it's like, "Woo, free money." When really, you're just borrowing against your home, moving backwards, adding stress and payments to your life and risk on top of that. So, I

would never recommend anyone taking out a second mortgage to do an addition. I would tell you to just cash flow it. So, you have the money to do the whole thing right now in cash.

>> Uh, yes. So, my husband and I both work for the fire department. Uh, we do all right. We roughly make about $300,000 a

year. Um, we um we in the last two and a

half years we've done uh six rounds of IVF. So, that was very expensive for us.

>> Yeah. And you were able to cash flow that? >> We were. And that's the almost the struggle part to it is that, you know, it's in the last two and a half years, we've uh spent about $200,000 on IBS.

And so we um you know we know the expense and we know how much it it didn't set us in completely back.

However um it definitely was a lot out of pocket. And then so we um are looking

to obviously expand our family uh because of the IVF that we've gone through and hence the reason why we needed or wanted to um expand the house.

And so >> so what's the current status with the IVF process? Where are you guys at?

>> Yeah. So, uh the last round we uh was the most embryos that we've actually received and awesome. Um we have we have four embryos at the moment. Our son our

son was an IVF baby on our first round and it was a success. We've now now done

uh five additional and uh up until just

the last two we hadn't gotten anything.

We hadn't even gotten tested quality embryos. >> Okay. So, uh, we were struggling with that for a little bit there. And then, um, this last year, um, in 2025, we we

paid $50,000 upfront, uh, to do two rounds of IVF

backto back. And in that two rounds of IVF, we actually have received four quality embryos. >> Okay. Well, at least you guys have the ability to save up and you're putting your money where it matters. So, I'm really proud of you guys and I'm hoping for the best there. What is the addition going to cost?

>> Um, so in in uh my heart, I want it to

cost $100,000. Um, I have um about I I

think maybe $120,000 is, you know, my

margin of error. Um, and uh my husband

and I have about $250,000 in savings at

the moment. >> Oh, amazing. just cash flow it and get it done. It's been loom. It's it's living rent free in your head at this point. >> Your peace of mind is worth something. I would spend it >> and not look back and have no regrets and you'll have a beautiful house. You guys are doing it the right way. There is no need to add risk and stress to your life by taking out a second mortgage. >> Okay. All right. >> And hey, the last thing you need in this process is any stress, right?

>> Yeah. Exactly. >> I mean, you know that you're a pro at this. So, you know, uh that's just one more reason I I would be uh the peace of

mind, the joy in your heart, that all goes into this deal, you know, that.

>> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah, absolutely. Um okay. Well, I I think it's um maybe that simple. I maybe because I have you guys um one maybe last question um with the money that I

have in the savings account that we have in the savings account um minus now maybe the addition. So, uh, let's just say we have roughly about a hundred to $150,000 left in a savings account. What

is your guys's, um, best advice for

investing it? >> Well, does that include your emergency fund? >> Um, as of as of right now in in hand on

on that we own, um, we have $250,000 in

the bank. Okay. we did use it to uh do

the house addition, you know, minus the 100, 120, maybe 150, god forbid.

>> So, I would separate that out and go, okay, we're going to keep 40 or 50 as our emergency fund, and the rest we could invest. Let's say that's $50,000.

You could use that to frontload some college accounts if the kids are in the picture. You could use that to uh fully fund some backdoor Roth IAS for the year

for some taxfree growth on that. um you could >> invest outside of retirement as sort of a bridge account maybe for future spending for the kids, you know, to just leave money growing for you. And so there's a lot of things you could do and then just life along the way. You can enjoy some of it.

>> Sounds like you guys have been through a lot. Maybe you take a vacation, >> maybe you give some and uh maybe you cover IVF for another family who's going through it. There's so much you can do with that, but the it comes into three categories of you can give it, save it, and spend it. I would encourage you to do all three.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call. We're rooting for you.

>> Yeah.

to this one, John? >> We can try. I think we're already here.

>> Let's go. >> Let's go, Rachel. Get right to the >> Rachel in Tulsa. We got a couple minutes. What's your question?

>> Hi. Um I am married. I'm currently

disabled. I have some medical issues going on. I'm trying to figure out with my medical bills. Um, they won't let me

make a smaller monthly payment. I'm trying to figure out if I should put all money that I was put putting towards my student loans towards my medical bills or if it's okay to let them go to collections.

>> Are you on a payment plan currently or is it a minimum payment you need to make? >> No, the payment plan they they say the lowest payment plan I can get on is about $500 a month.

>> How much is the medical debt do that?

The medical debt is about $7,000 and it's a couple different accounts and so

the $500 a month is a couple different

payment plans. >> Wow. Have you looked into financial assistance programs through the hospital, charity care, sliding scale, >> all that? >> I have and my husband um makes too much

money. So, >> okay. So, how quickly could you knock it out? Because it sounds like you guys could make the $500 payment. Let's say that is the minimum and then you just knock out your other debts a little slower.

>> The thing is we can't do 500 a month

even that. How much does he make? Still have >> he makes like 83,000 a year which is

great. But I still have about like $700

a month in medical expenses besides bills. >> Would they take a cash lump sum if you offered them five grand instead of seven?

Um they said if we offered them 4,000 my

biggest bill they would take a th000 off but the only way we could get that lump sum is um through parents and I didn't want to um borrow money for my parents.

>> You know I agree but I think the question is can we continue the debt snowball? Maybe we make p min minimum payments on the debts and try to save up that four grand to try to get that discount. I would try to do everything you can. I would look at the medical billing and coding and have them re-re it.

I just did this yesterday with chat GBT and it gave me a script for what I need to say on the phone to lower the bill. >> Love that. >> So, I would upload your bill and seriously use that to try to lower it, then negotiate it. Get real resourceful and I think you can [music] knock this out without it going to collections and damaging your credit.

We believe in you, Rachel. You've got it.

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## 95. It’s Not Too Late to Get Control of Your Money | September 30, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird.

We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, and host of Front Row Seat, one of the biggest hits on Ramsey Network right now. He's my co-host. Open Phones at8255225.

Brooke is in Florida. Hey, Brooke. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I need to know today um how to ask my

parents for money. They I work for their business. I manage their business. And there's times sometimes when I don't get a paycheck from them. Um, it's I I love

my parents and I love the work that I do, but I just don't know how much

longer I can keep my head above water.

>> How old are you?

>> 30. >> You run the business?

>> I do. Yes. >> How many employees?

>> Uh, about 15.

>> Okay. Are you running payroll for the 15 people?

No, they they I run all the time stamps

and then they do it on their automated payroll.

>> Okay. So, you're not running the business.

>> You're just running some You're running parts of the business.

>> I I you could say that. Yes. I mean, I run daytoday all the like accounts and billings and the management of all the employees stuff. They're just >> So, you hire and fire these people?

>> I do. >> Do any of them miss their paychecks?

No.

>> What would happen if they did? They would quit. >> They would quit. >> Yeah. So, why would you not get a paycheck?

>> Um, just just sometimes like sometimes the business does not do well. Um, >> you're not profitable. >> And >> Yes. Yeah. And we we're from a small town. We live in a small town and you know, we try not to raise our prices too much, but you know, when it comes down to it, we do. >> You're not profitable. >> Then the the town keeps yelling at us.

Why are you not profitable?

>> Why is it not? I don't because we don't raise our prices. >> I thought you were running the business.

>> I am, but I I mean I raise them

>> I raise them a little bit, but not to anything too crazy. >> Well, honey, if you're not running a profitable business, nobody gets a paycheck.

>> Absolutely.

Okay. >> So, this isn't a mom and dad problem.

This is a you're running a business sort of and the decisions that are being made to operate the business are not causing it to be profitable.

Is that right?

>> Yes. >> And so they don't have the money to pay you and so they skip out on you rather

than the other employees.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And so the the fix for this is not a relational problem with your mom and dad. The fix for this is business acumen and it's straightening up your dad gum act over there and decided if we're going to keep this thing open or not cuz a business that doesn't make money is called a hobby >> recorded.

>> Hello. >> This call is no long >> I have no idea what that was but I'm not participating in it anymore. Um something about being recorded. Yeah, it's definitely being recorded.

It's a podcast. Okay. So it'll be on YouTube later too if you want to watch it. But no, you don't have a mom and dad problem, honey.

You got a Brooke problem. And so Brooke needs to sit down with mom and dad and go, "We're running this business poorly.

because your mom and dad have an integrity issue then. But that's not what's going on. What's going on is is they ask you to run the business, you're running it poorly.

>> Yeah. And I also think there's we don't have the backstory here, so this is inferring a lot, but this is probably not a very strong business and just laying it out as simply as well, we're not raising prices. That's not the only reason. I think she needs another job.

Uh because I think her finances are a mess. She's underneath underneath it, she said. So this is a situation where you may or may not be able to fix this.

Um, and if you can't, I would do what Dave says, but if we can't fix it with a very clear strategy, dial in a few knobs here, then it's time to move on.

>> Yeah. >> And I see this a lot with family business. People, they get stuck in this because they feel like it's mom and dad's business. I'm the kid. I got to help. And you refuse to see what you

might otherwise see if you didn't work for mom and dad. Well, the number one I mean a business that didn't profitable, the number one line item in a typical business of of any size, but certainly a small business with 15 employees, the largest item in their pay in their uh in

their budget is payroll.

>> That's correct. >> They have 15 people getting paid and one not. So, I can fix that. We'll have 13 people and one gets paid.

>> I mean, that's, you know, I don't lay people off around here uh willy-nilly. I do all kinds of things. We've never had a layoff in Ramsey at 35 years. But if we're not making a profit, we're going to make a profit.

We're going to stay open. And if I if I have to cut payroll to stay open, I will. Um before I before I sit around and make no money and uh because you're not going to stay open eventually if you don't make a profit. This is the whole thing.

It's how it works. It's a math thing. So it's not an altruistic thing. It's not socialism doesn't fix it.

Your theory about capitalism from your communist college professor won't fix it. None of this will fix it. What has the only thing fixes?

>> Yep. >> And so and it has to have a bottom line profit. And when you've got that then all your theories we can have a discussion about. But no. Yeah. It's not a mom and dad problem, Brooke. It it's you and your mom and dad need to sit down and figure out how what have we got to do? Cut expenses and increase revenues. And that's where profit comes from. I want to create some margin in here to where I never miss a paycheck again because I can't miss any more paychecks.

I'm not I'm not okay with missing paychecks. And if we have to if we have for me to miss paychecks, it's it's saying to me that I need to go do something else. >> Y >> and so I I've missed my last paycheck.

We're going to sit down. We're going to change some stuff here until this happens. But you the way you presented it made it sound like it's kind of random. It's not random at all. They look down, the bank account's empty, they can't pay you. And that'd be true for the rest of them, by the way. If they look down, the bank account's really empty. Well, how they how they going to make payroll? They can't. So, that's the next thing that's coming.

>> They're they're going to miss paychecks to other people. Yeah. >> And so, we've got to get this thing turned around and headed in the right direction or we need to close it. One of the two or somebody that wants to work for free to run it because I'm not that guy. >> Yeah. That I hadn't ever asked anybody to work for free at Ramsey ever. >> Yeah. Because here's where this goes.

Right now, she's kind of chuckling.

Seems like she's in good spirits. But eventually, that becomes nasty resentment for mom and dad. And to your point, they're not being bad parents here. They're just trying to figure out how to pay everybody else. She's the last one. >> Well, they've done a crummy job of communicating and helping to fix it.

>> No question. >> If my kid is on my payroll.

>> Yeah. >> And I own the business and I can't pay my kid. >> That's the first thing I'm going to have a problem with, right? I mean, we're going to be talking about this and all of a sudden I'm going to be down in the weeds with the with the boots on again.

Here we go. >> Yeah. >> So, something's going to happen here.

And so, I I it feels like mom and dad

kind of drifted off and semi-retired.

>> I think you're right. >> And they're half butt running this thing. and Brooke doesn't know what she's doing and she's kind of half butt running it. And so there's a lot of half butts in this thing. And that that's what that's what there's nobody got control of this around the throat. Grab it around the throat to get it to 15

people so they can figure it out.

>> You got to step on it >> there because let me tell you, business is tough. That's why they fail all the time. It's hard. It's a series of hard

decisions. And you get up tomorrow and you know what it is then? another series of hard decisions. It's hard. It's

tough. Running your own business is, you know, at least you work for yourself. That's the worst boss you'll ever have in your life. Guy's a freaking slave driver. [Music]

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Natalie is in Tacoma, Washington. Hi Natalie. How are you?

>> I'm good. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys. This is a total honor.

>> Well, we're honored to speak to you. How can we help? Um, so this is a more of a relationship and more of a family question. So my basic question is how do I get my brother to stop taking advantage of my parents?

Um, so context and background is that he

is 35 years old. And essentially what

his current kind of like plan or like

lifestyle is, he just like saves up a bunch of money um while he's living at home with them for free and then he'll like go on a trip internationally. And then once he runs out of money, he comes back and he doesn't have anywhere to go.

So he just moves back in with my parents again. But meanwhile, he takes advantage of them and like uses their materials for his business. He uses their stuff and he's also disrespectful all at the

same time. I've talked to my parents about this. I mostly talk to my parents about this. So, I mostly get their side of the story, but basically I

>> Why have they not stopped this then?

>> That's what I've been trying to get them to. >> I'm asking you I'm asking you why.

What's wrong with your parents?

They will not. They love their son too much. They won't love. That's not love.

>> Yeah, that's true.

>> This is giving a drunk a drink. That's enabling. It's not love.

>> 100%. I'm And so that's what I'm wanting

help with is I've talked to them about it and I've been very straightforward and blunt with them and I've told them, you know, like if you are not willing to set those boundaries, then it could cost you the relationship. And so I guess

they're not listening to me. I'm wondering if I can talk to my brother specifically and he can coach me on how to help him. >> No. >> Okay. >> Your brother's a parasite. They don't listen. >> 100%. >> Yeah. >> So, it's >> Well, he doesn't have any problems.

>> I know. >> Your parents are the one that has a problem. Your brother has no problems.

He He Life is good for your brother.

>> I know. Yeah. >> Why would he? But your parents job is to help him have some problems.

Yes, I agree.

So, I kind of sit in this middle world and I'm wondering and I I it's technically out of my control. I'm wondering if I'm wondering if there's anything that I can do to kind of help this problem.

>> Well, let me flip this on you. If I if I met you and I started telling you about something that was really really bothering me, you could tell I was pretty worked up about it and then I said to you, "But Natalie, I I have no control over it. I can't control anything about this. What would you say to me?" >> Um, I mean, I guess technically you're right.

So, >> what would you tell me? You can see I'm all stood up about it, but I have no control over it. What would you say to me as a good friend or a new acquaintance?

I guess I'm not sure.

>> Sure you would. >> It's kind of frozen. Let it go. Let it go. That's it. You would just say, "Hey, you got to move on." >> And you said you're sitting in the middle of this. You're not sitting in the middle of that. >> You're sitting on the side. You're a spectator. >> You've actually put yourself emotionally in the middle. >> You have VIP seats.

>> Yeah. >> To watch this crap happen.

>> Yeah. >> But you're a spectator.

>> Yep. >> Yeah. So that's what that's what I'm hating is I hate watching my parents. It is really painful to watch people you love do stupid things.

>> Yeah.

>> Let me tell you what I would do on this situation. This is like me walking in the living room and my wife and daughter are watching The Bachelor. I just keep on walking.

>> I don't stop. You know, I already know.

>> Don't get sucked in. >> Well, I just know how awful that show is and how it makes me feel and I feel dumber every second that I watch it.

>> My brain cells just die progressively though. But if I sit there and I watch it and I keep griping to Stacy and Josie

about it, it's not helping me or them

cuz they're not going to stop watching.

>> They don't stop. >> So, um, yeah. The only thing I could think of is this. Anytime I'm trying to influence someone, the only thing I can do there there's three possible angles.

Your brother's not is zero chance. Okay?

I would not bother with him at all.

>> What he needs is a good buttkicking, and you're not in a position to do that. Okay. So, he needs he needs his butt kicked into the street and into a job and into grown-up land. And uh that's what you know, he's like >> he's um you know, Peter Pan. He just never grew up, right? So, um failure to

launch. So, now how do you deal with mom and dad? Number one, I would just tell mom and dad a story about one time that I was doing something and say, you know, I did this, I did this, I did this. And you know, when I got out on my own, I felt so much better than when you guys were supporting me.

>> I felt better about myself. And so, I don't think I don't think my brother feels good about himself because I think y'all are harming him.

>> Uh, and so you you could say something, I don't think it's going to do any good, though, because I think your parents are spineless.

>> Yeah. Enablers are the nicest spineless

people you will ever meet.

>> When I have been an enabler, it's because I was too freaking chicken to deal with the deal. Instead, I just

throw money at it.

>> And that's enabling. And I've done that myself. And it's just I'm always ashamed of myself when I do it because you don't help the people involved. You actually hurt them. And that's what your parents are bringing great harm to your brother because they've malformed his character in the process and it's their fault. All

he did was just take the path of least resistance. That's all he did.

>> So the second thing I would do is ask yourself who would they listen to?

>> True.

brother that they trust, uncle that they trust, pastor that they trust, >> his old army >> sergeant that he trusts. I don't know who who who would that and and talk to that person and say, would you go talk to them cuz I can't get through to them.

>> Mhm. >> And then the third thing I'm going to do is I'm just going to pray, God, mess them up. Mess this up, Lord. Cause a

chaos over there.

Let the basement where brother lives flood, Lord.

Yes. >> Break his car, Lord. You know.

>> Yeah. Lord, Lord, bring some problems to this situation, please, God. And just pray pray hell down on them. And it's just I'm serious cuz that's that's what's going to something is going to bust here. And I around Ramsey even when we're working on projects, we always say, "Break it before it's broken." And I'm just going to ask God, "Break this before it gets broken cuz it's going to get broken. It's going to go sideways.

It's going to be ugly when it does. And it'd be better off sooner than later.

>> Yeah. I My guess is your parents are afraid of him. You mentioned that he's disrespect. Yeah. I just >> physically >> he hasn't been physical with them, but he has broken stuff in the household before. >> I'll call the police on him. >> Yeah. They're But they're more afraid not of harm. I think they're afraid that he's going to abandon them. I When you see parents that are enabling, I've seen this so many times. there is a fear that

the child is going to abandon them,

reject them. And so you're saying yes.

So you've seen this. So I'm only pointing this out because u to Dave's point, it's going to take a really special person with real real authentic

leverage in their life to get them to see that this is what's going on, >> that they're act, you know, >> they're terrified of The best I've ever done with an enabler is to convince the enabler that they're actually doing harm because they think they're doing good. >> That's right. >> Well, they think they're avoiding something bad when what they're doing is creating. >> I can't put them out. He'll be homeless.

Right. >> Praise God. >> Right. Yeah. It's It reminds me of the prodal. >> Don't let them eat. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like the Bible and stuff.

>> Yeah. Let them go and then when they come back, have a nice robe and create a feast. But at some point, the fear of

what their life is going to turn out uh

or turn into has got to be bigger than the fear of them being mad at you. And that's a really, by the way, I don't say that flippantly. No, >> that's a tough choice. >> You get to ask that if you're raising teenagers, you have to ask that question every morning. That's right. >> You know, I have to explain to them, listen, my job here is not to be not to make you happy. My job here is not to be

your friend. My job here is not to be the cool dad because I didn't sign up for that one either. My job is to raise you into a good adult >> so you can leave. That's my job. And

then when you leave, you can come back when you bring grandbabies. This is how the work world works. Okay? And so um but you cannot live in my basement and make grandbabies. It doesn't work that way. So you need to leave otherwise we don't get grandbabies. This is so and I have to train you in how to do that. So you have to brush your teeth so you have some. You have to take your tests and get grades so that you can get a job and

make money so you can bring back grandbabies. This Yeah, this is the there's a goal here. It's a >> circle of life, >> desired future, right?

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is a game changer. Boys and girls, watch the pre the premiere on our YouTube channel and see the app in action. By the way, that premiere is pretty incredible. Uh here how folks are finding thousands of dollars in margin in just 15 minutes using Every Dollar's new features. So imagine how much you could find to put towards your money goals.

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The allnew Every Dollar. Check it out, boys and girls. And check it out on YouTube. All right. Kayla is in Mississippi. Hi, Kayla. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm great. >> Good. How can I help?

>> Okay. Well, it's kind of a dispute that

my husband and I have had for a really long time. >> And he thinks that our house and our

land should be included in our net worth. But I don't because I will never

ever ever sell my house or my land. I mean, no matter what happened, I would not do it. And so, he thinks it should be included in that. And so he for that

reason he has a high net worth for us. I mean really high. And I don't think it's so high because I would never sell it.

>> Okay. It doesn't it Kayla, I'm sorry you're wrong. Um >> Oh no. >> Yeah. So the I'm sorry you lose the argument. But here's why. Okay. Net worth is not about whether you sell it or not. Net worth is simply what something is worth. The definition of net worth is an accounting function.

It's a math thing, not a feeling. Okay?

And so, and it's not a wish or an intent. It's not what you plan to do with it. None of that really matters. They don't ask that question in accounting. All they want to know is what you own minus what you owe.

Assets minus liabilities equals net worth. Period.

That's your net worth. Now, you now you can say, what's my liquidity? Which is your argument. Your your liquidity is the money that you would cash in or use

if something came up. And in your case, you would get rid of your husband before you got rid of the land. You made that clear.

>> No, not quite that extreme. Not that >> almost. Almost. I mean, we're not sure at this moment, especially since you lost the argument now, but yeah, that's it. But >> not bad. >> What's so special about this land?

That's It must be family land. >> Well, it's the thing. He wants to retire. He's like, "We have this huge net worth and I want to retire." And I'm like, "We have >> Okay, now that that net worth does not necessarily mean you can retire." That's true. Okay. Because what what we need to retire is we need net worth that is creating an income.

>> So if you're farming the land, then you would be creating an income with it. But it's just sitting there growing going up in value. You can't eat that. You're you're right. >> Right. >> You're right about that. That part of the argument, you win. Okay. So your net worth, if your net worth is too uh offc

center on one thing, like dirt in your case, then you can't eat at retirement.

That won't work. So, what is the rest of

your net worth, not counting the land?

>> It's in 401ks and Roth IAS and it's 2.7

million or thereabouts. >> Well, darling, he can retire.

>> I don't I don't see how because he makes like 200,000 a year. >> Well, what do you think 2.7 million will create?

>> Well, >> 2.7 million at 10% 270,000.

That just that's where I have the disconnect. We've only ever saved saved save saved and we've never taken anything out. And so I'm like really >> I need to we need to check his back for the lash marks. >> I'm telling you you're But you're sweet.

I think I think he's smile. You're smiling the whole time. This >> smiling the whole time you kick him out and every morning to go to work. Get your butt up. Go to work. >> How much is the land worth? >> That's hilarious. >> It's what? >> I'm sorry. What? >> What's the land worth?

>> Oh, the house and the land together will probably be around 800,000. Oh, well that's not even the larger part of your net worth then, huh? Interesting.

>> No. >> So, how old is your husband?

>> Forever. No matter what ever happens, I'm never leaving here. I >> I We got that. Okay. We got that early.

>> Don't question. So did he, by the way.

But the So the question is this. When How old is he?

>> 62. >> 62.

>> 62. That's right. >> Okay. So sit down with your financial advisor and ask them if >> it's him. It's him.

>> Financial adviser. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Well, maybe you need to get one that'll help you guys both look at this and say because if I were your financial adviser, I could show you how you could invest that money in in some decent growth stock mutual funds, which I got a feeling he's already done. And and it would create 10 to 12% rate of return.

And so you would make 200 $200,000 without even touching the nest egg. H

>> without even touching the 2.7. See, if 2.7 makes 10, that's 270 without

touching the 2.7 every year, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. See, that's without touching the nest egg. And um and he's he's 62. And

um you know, if anything really goes wrong, you could sell the farm. No, I'm kidding.

>> I couldn't resist. Yeah. Yeah. It's too

easy. It's underhand pitch. It's teball.

Never, ever, ever, >> ever, ever, ever. >> No matter what happens, nuclear apocalypse. Guarantee you Kayla's on the >> You guys have done a wonderful job together cuz you're fun and you focused and you don't spend money, you save money, and he's done a wonderful job, if he's been the one managing this, growing it at 62 to have 2.7 plus an 800,000.

So, your net worth 3.5. Way to go, Mississippi. I love it. I'm proud of you. You did great. Now, if he wants to

retire, he can afford to retire.

>> I don't think for sure. >> I don't think he had much choice. I think uh Caleb made that poor guy save and invest, which is good. Which is good. Good for him. But >> well, that way they don't have to sell the land.

>> I thought it was going to be some like massive track of land worth millions of dollars. >> I thought they had 2.7. The land's worth 20 million or something. Yeah. I thought 800 grand. It's not even the biggest part. Might be a price you would consider.

But she does make I'll tell you the conversation is a good point for everybody listening though. Okay.

>> When you you have to have enough of your net worth tied up in income producing

assets to be able to live off of that

income. In their case it's a very simple formula. 2.7 10% 270. Right? But let's

say you had 2.7 and it was in real estate uh that was generating rents. Are the net rents net of all the expenses enough to live on? And are you okay with

that? And those of you that are small business people, you need to have assets outside of and in addition to your small business when you retire. Uh, no, that's my retire. No, that's not your retirement. That retirement has to be done some then you're going to put your kids in debt when they try to take it over from you because they got to buy the old man out cuz the old man hadn't saved any stinking money. So, you need some stinking money. you need to have invested and create income prodducing

assets that you can live off of at

retirement. So, one of the guys I was ran through my head. One of the guys we found was worth $12 million in the uh when we did the millionaire study. Yeah.

>> For the millionaire next or not millionaire next door. That's Tom Stanley's book. My book Baby Steps Millionaire, right? And so, um that study, one of the guys, he was one of he was an unusual millionaire and that's why I remember him. He bought a track of

farmland. He was a farmer um in Kansas

for cash. And then the next year he bought another track. And then the next year he bought another track. And then the next year he bought another track.

He had $12 million in dirt.

>> O dirt.

>> And if he's not farming it, it doesn't create an income. It goes up in value probably because it's apparently good dirt, right? >> But uh and he's been doing that. But if you've got it all tied up in dirt, >> Yeah. You know, we had a a family one time we were coaching in Entree Leadership. They were third generation and they started with like 500,000 acres

in um uh New Mexico and it was part of a

land grant thing three generations ago.

And every generation they had to sell off blocks of it to pay the estate taxes. >> And now we're down to the third or the fourth generation and they're all trying to live off of this land only it doesn't create an income. But they had this massive net worth to Kayla's point. She

makes a good point, but no income. And they sat and argued is what they did. So um about what to do next because they basically the thing between someone trying to eat and the federal government taking estate taxes every generation.

The uh the half a million acres had been disbanded and was gradually eroding.

>> So sad >> for those things because nobody ever bothered to create an income. You got to create an income and you got to do that.

So, she makes a great point on that. And she was a lot of fun. That's great.

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We appreciate you very much. Andrew is in Washington. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Hey, what's going on, guys?

>> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

>> So, um I just got married in August. Um and my wife and I are looking at um buying our first home. Um and right now, we're putting, you know, doing what you guys say, putting 15% of our income into retirement. And because a home is an

appreciating asset, would it be okay with the exception of the 401k because

we get match? Would it be okay to pause

contributions to retirement and to put that towards a down payment on a house?

>> Yes, but not because it's an appreciating asset. Um the uh uh I

assume you're out of debt everything at this point.

We have my wife has about 10k in student loan debt which we're planning to pay off um hopefully by the end of the year.

>> Okay. And do you have an emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Well, you only got part of the Ramsey message then.

So, let me kind of fill in the gaps. Okay. Baby step one is you save $1,000. Anything above $1,000 that you have, you apply to consumer debt.

And you lean on consumer debt. anything except a mortgage until you are 100% debt-free. When you are, then baby step three is you build a an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. Only then do you start investing for retirement.

So you would stop investing for retirement today.

>> Okay? >> And then your first goal is to rebuild the emergency fund to 3 to 6 months of household expenses. Then if we want to

do a a house down payment, we start saving for a house down payment. And I'll give you the nuances to that. That kind of weaves back to your question now that I cleaned it up. Okay.

>> All right. So at that at that point, let's revisit where we are at that point. You're 100% debtree. You have an emergency fund and we have not yet restarted the 15% baby step four going

into retirement. You with me now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. when you're there and you should be there like by Friday.

I mean, I don't know how quick it's going to take you to build that emergency fund back up, but it might be three Fridays from now, but you're going to get there real fast. Okay. I don't know how much is in your savings, not counting retirement. >> Uh with with retirement, >> not counting retirement.

>> Gotcha. Um probably like 15 grand.

>> Okay, good. Yeah. So, you're debtree with five grand in the bank today. Did I understand that right? >> Okay. And then you build that to three to six months of expenses. What's your household income?

>> Uh about 120 a year.

>> Cool. What do you think your monthly expenses to exist are?

>> Uh probably in the 2 to 2500 range.

>> I think that's probably right. So let's call your emergency fund 10 grand minimum.

>> Okay. >> You could call it 15 if you want to, but for purposes of arguing how So we got to put five grand back into there. Then we've got a $10,000 emergency fund or a little more if you wanted to do that and we're debtree. Once you're there, then you have the question of do I save for a

down payment versus putting money into my 401k. Now people, and that's what we

call baby step 3B because the 15% going

into your 401k is baby step four. Is

this all tracking? >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Good. Now, so at baby step 3b,

anything in there is permissible. You could do zero into retirement. Even if there's a match, you could ignore your retirement for up to 3 years, build a

huge down payment and buy a house, then start baby step four. That's one end of the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum is sometimes people put 15% away and while they're doing that with no payments, they still save for their down payment. That's the other end of the spectrum. Or you could land in the middle and take your match and then save for your down payment above the match, right? Which is kind of the way you were leaning, the way you phrased the question.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And that's okay. Any one of those is okay. But just don't do nothing for retirement longer than 3 years.

>> Okay. Longer than three years. Got it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So even if you do 3% in there, let's get that down payment saved up pretty quick. Now, when you're doing the house, it' be great. It's probably very hard to do on your first house. And you guys are in your early 20s, aren't you?

>> Uh, we're 28. >> Oh, mid20s. Okay. Late 20s. Okay. Good.

So, on your first house, it's very difficult to do this. But if you can put down 20%.

You avoid what's called PMI, which is private mortgage insurance.

>> Yes. And that's 75 bucks a month per 100,000 borrowed. So you start talking

about, you know, we're going to do a $400,000 mortgage, you suddenly got uh

$300 a month in PMI only.

And it's nothing more than foreclosure insurance that protects the mortgage company if they foreclose on you. It benefits you in no way. And they don't charge that to you if you put down 20% or more because they're not at risk.

they think they've got enough equity coverage.

>> So, if you can put down that much, it saves you a ton of money. But sometimes people really want to get a house. They want to get a house and they're moving fast. That's okay. We're fine with that, especially on the first house. And then while you're doing that, no more than a 15-year mortgage. No more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a fixed rate 15-year mortgage. And that's the whole shmear right there on your question.

More than you ask for, but you're tracking and you're really thinking about it. You're being intentional. I think you're going to do great, Andrew.

>> You can tell by the way he's asking the questions. >> He's very thoughtful. The only thing I would say to you, and you didn't say anything that would that would make me think you're going to do this, but be careful of the temptation to over buy that first house, you know, because everybody kind of wants that bigger house, a little bit better. You get just got married in August. So, while you're saving, also keep some discipline in mind that this is not our forever house.

Don't get sucked into buying in a place that's too much of a stretch. I cannot tell you how many calls we take on this show where somebody just overbought and they're like, "Now, what do we do?" Because we're three months in and the high has worn off and we are upside down

and we just cannot afford this. So, be very, very careful on what you buy as a new couple. First house.

>> Yeah. Forever house is code for I just bought more than I should have. >> Yeah. >> That's what it's called for. Uh because there is no forever house. I'm 65.

There's no forever house. The only forever house is heaven. Okay, that's it. The one Jesus the mansion Jesus is building, that's my forever house. The rest of them, they ain't got a mortgage and there's no property tax on that. So that's it. So you just you get you buy what you can afford because you're going to move.

You are going to move. The average house sells every 5.5 years in America. I'm

sorry, 6.5 years. The average mortgage pays off every 5 years. >> Except for our friend in Mississippi we talked to earlier. She's not moving. >> She's not moving. >> Everybody else >> Everybody else is moving. But she's she's bringing the average up. She's bringing the a Kayla. Kayla's bringing the >> That good memory, Kayla. That's right.

Everyone else though, >> she's bringing the average up. Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, I mean Sharon and I have averaged I think about 14 years >> per house. Per for per forever house.

Yeah. >> So if you want to know how long forever is, it's somewhere around 14 years.

>> I asked you too. I was like, cuz I loved your other house. Like, selfishly speaking, it was the greatest place in the world to hang out in a on a Tennessee evening overlook. It was just I selfishly >> up on a big hill and the sunsets were off the chain.

>> Yeah. >> And I didn't want you to move, but you didn't ask me. >> Yeah. Well, you weren't paying the bills up there.

>> That's right. Well, I said to you, I go, "What? What? What are you doing?" You go, "Ah, we need a new project." >> That's what you said.

>> Little bor. >> I go, "Man, >> you've been there 14 years. It's been forever." >> He had too many great sunsets, apparently. So, that'll tell you.

This actually proves your point.

>> See, >> I actually did. I thought it was my forever house. I never say that cuz I hate that phrase, but >> uh I actually thought we'd own it. And uh but it was just it was a ridiculous property and there was a chance to get a ridiculous price and so sold to the man with the bigger checkbook.

>> You did. >> And so um there we go. If only you were as strong as Kayla, you would have held firm and I'd still be up there enjoying those sunsets. >> That's true.

>> Not to be though. >> You could probably go up there now, but you might get arrested. >> I knock on the door. Hey, would you mind?

>> Hey, no, don't even knock on the door. Just let him come home, find you on the back porch. >> Hey, don't worry, my friend.

>> I used to come by here all the time. I just wanted to see it one more time before I went to jail.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio with Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author and host of The Front Row Seat. as my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ryan is in Nashville. Hey, Ryan. How are you?

>> Good. Dave, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um had a question about um retirement and 401ks. Um I am new into a

Roth IRA. I'll be 50 next year and I can

only contribute so much to that. And on my wife's 401k, we're maxing out what

she can do um a year on that. And then

there's a rollover IRA from previous employment um that we have. So we've got the three things working for us, but I can only contribute, you know, that just that$7,000 a year. And I I would just

like to know what you think other ways for me to try to make my money work for

me um down the road so I can have more retirement. >> Yeah, you can bump it to 8,000 at 50 and you can also do a spousal Roth for your wife as well. Are you doing both of those?

So, we can do that if if she has a 401k plus she has a rollover IRA.

>> Yes. >> And what's that called? I'm sorry. >> Just a Roth IRA. She can just do a Roth.

She can do one, too. >> She can do a Roth. >> Yep. Even if she's not working, she could do one, but she's working in this case. So, make sure. Is her 401k a WTH?

>> Uh, no. I don't believe Well, yes, it is. It is. Okay. >> All right. Cuz the if they match, the portion they match is not Roth. But make sure it's not traditional. Is the roll over Roth? Is a rollover IRA. Has it been converted to Roth?

>> I don't think it's been converted. It's just a rollover. >> Okay. If you convert it, it'll make the taxes on the amount come due. What's the amount in there?

>> The amount on the rollover currently is probably about 75.

>> Okay. So, you would have about 15 or $20,000 in taxes, probably 15. Um, if

you get so if you got an extra 15 to invest in retirement, I would roll that to a Roth and pay that 15 in taxes and call that investing. Here's why. Because from this point forward, it will grow completely tax-free.

>> Okay? >> So, that paying those taxes now is like investing into a into a retirement. So, if you're looking for more money to throw at something, the first thing is you bump them to eight. You do a spousal spousal. make sure her 401k is Roth if

it's not already and then take that roll over and you know talk to your tax person, figure out what your taxes are going to be before you do it. make sure you've got that much in extra cash to pay your tax bill next year when the April rolls around because you're going to have an extra whatever it is 15 grand or so um on that and then roll that 75

because that 75 in seven years will be 150 and in seven more years it'll be 300 and in seven more years it'll be 600 and all of that will be taxfree if it's Roth. It won't be the way it is now.

It's going to grow and all of it be taxable at ordinary income. So, you do want to move that at some point, but if

you're looking for extra ways to put money towards retirement, that's the ways you can do it. Matt's in Tennessee.

Hey, Matt. How are you?

>> I'm doing great, guys. I'm so excited to be on the show. Thanks for taking my call. >> My pleasure. How can we help?

>> Well, my wife and I have been weighing the decision of making her a stay-at-home mom, and I just want to

make sure we're not letting emotion

blind us from making a uh a bad decision

financially. >> Cool. Good for you. How many babies you got? >> Uh we have two. Uh they're both under three. >> Awesome. You got your hands full.

>> Never a quiet moment at your house. Yes.

Okay. So, um >> yeah, that's great. Um I just kept the grandbabies last week that Sharon and I did that are that age and say I know what I'm talking about for just a moment there, but I can hand them back when they're broke. You can't. So, um, this one's got something wrong with it. You don't need to work on this one. Yeah. But the, uh, anyway, the, uh, what does she make?

>> Um, she makes 95 gross.

>> And what do you make?

>> I make, um, I'll be on track to make,

uh, over 150.

>> Okay, cool. Um, if you want to be really, really sure, uh, an easy way to do it would be just live on your check for three months and bank hers.

Yes, sir. We We've been doing that.

>> Oh, you have? Okay. I mean, minus dayare. If you got daycare, you could take daycare out of hers, but because you won't have that, but >> but if you just practice, so you've already pre you've already proven to yourself you can do this.

>> I guess so. But, um, I mean, I guess we're just a little nervous to take that leap of faith. Um, you know, >> it's not a leap of faith. You've proven it.

>> It's a step. True. It's a step. It's not a leap.

Yes, sir. >> How much margin do you A leap is? I have no idea and I've never even looked at the math. That's a leap.

>> This is true. >> Yeah. So, you're done great, man. So, what does she do for a living?

>> Uh, she's a nurse auditor for Humana.

>> Is she a nurse by trade?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. I think Ken and I would both recommend that she do enough of something to keep her alive while she's at home. Yeah, >> we we've both talked about that as well.

We want to keep her um her license up to date. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And you'll be amazed at what she could pick up as just little side things here or there that make a lot of money. >> She's got like the perfect career to do

what you're talking about doing.

>> I couldn't agree more. >> I mean, she could pick up if y'all got in a pinch or something, she could pick up weekends in the in the ER and make almost as much she's making now.

This is true. >> Be very uncomfortable. And I'm not recommending doing that. And but you don't have to because you've already proven we can live on your income. So yeah, just do it, man. Do it. This is what the This is you. This is why you manage money to get to live the life you want to live and you guys want her to be home and she's doing nothing wrong and everything right by doing that.

>> Yeah. My my question is is is as Dave was walking you through this, you just you still seemed unsure. Is that because you're worried about some big giant expense coming out of nowhere from the giant in the sky or you are too tight on

just your income?

>> No, that's a good question. We're we're not too tight on my income. Um what makes me nervous, Ken, is I started this

job in June. Um and it's a phenomenal

job. It it it it provides very well.

It's It's given us a great financial bump. Um I guess it just makes me nervous to um solely rely on on my job

having been being in it for such a short period of time. >> Yeah. What do you do?

>> I'm in medical sales.

>> Oh, dude. >> Yeah. >> You land another one. You know land you can land backwards on your head and make 150 in that in the next job.

>> If these people lose their minds, you can get another job doing this. Once you've done medical sales, you're so qualified, it's unbelievable. You both have selected excellent careers.

>> You'll be making 250 in 3 years, dude.

>> Yes, sir. Uh if everything goes well and I'm and I stay on plan, I should I should track to make over 200.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, the good thing comes like a decision like this is you're going to be extra motivated. And I I appreciate you sharing the fear and I I didn't need to know. I wanted you to hear yourself say it. And so what you need to do now is go, okay, if this makes me a little nervous, is there any evidence that it should make me nervous? And in this case, answer is no. And then to Dave's point, uh you can crush it, man. So go crush it. And here's the other thing.

You guys can decide, okay, we're going to stack up a little extra money. Oh, just a little rest easy money. Now, we're not saying you have to do that, but you can to kind of ease yourself into this. You guys get to decide how and when you make this transition >> and everything goes sideways, >> she she walks down there and picks up a nursing job.

>> I mean, if you lost your job, she picks up a nursing job, y'all can eat. It's okay. It's not It's not like it's permanent. You keep those searchs, though.

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[Music]

Dylan is in Idaho. Hi Dylan. How are you

>> doing? Well, how are you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So my my wife and I are in a little bit of a pickle. We are trying to get financially smart and get out of debt.

We have two vehicles that are financed

and uh we owe more than than they're

worth, I guess, at least on one of them.

The other one we could probably break even with, but we don't quite have like the cash or the capital to then buy um

something cheaper in cash.

>> Okay. On that one, the one that's break even, what's the payment?

Uh 120 a month.

>> Okay. For what? 82 years. What kind of car is this?

>> It's a 2014 Volkswagen Jetta.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> Uh 66, I think.

>> Okay. I'm sorry. You owe 60 Oh, 6600,

>> right? Yep. 6600. >> Okay. I'm just God almighty. All right.

My math brain was about to explode.

>> 6,000. Sorry. >> Yeah. No, not quite. Thank God. Um, so

$6,600 you owe on the $120 a month. And what do you owe on the other car?

>> We owe49.

>> And what is it worth?

>> It's worth probably 11,000.

>> Okay. And so what do you guys make?

I make about I guess it kind of varies

on monthtomonth but it's usually around 6,5007,000 a month. >> What do you do?

>> I do line work and then I um I also have

a I work for a farmer on the weekends.

>> Okay. And what's your wife do?

>> She's a stay at home mom. >> Oh. How many kids?

>> Just one. Uh eight months old.

>> Oh. And what did she do before?

>> She was in the medical industry. Uh CNA,

medical assistant, labbotomy. >> Okay. All right. Wow. All right. Um

those cars are not

killing me because you hardly owe anything on them and neither one of them are expensive cars. In other words, like

20 grand sets you free, my man. Sure.

Yeah. >> And so I just I think I instead of worrying about selling the cars, I think I just get 20 grand. So you're making

about 70 and um or a little better than that.

Gross. And we need 20. And you're working. What are you getting paid on the farm gig on the side?

>> Um it's uh it's 25 an hour. And um if I

work um consistently every weekend, it's

uh 750 twice a month. 750 every other

month. >> Yeah. Okay, good. >> Or sorry, excuse me, every other week. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's what that's good. So you're getting a lot of hours. That's good. >> Can you get more with him?

>> Um I potentially could. I um he doesn't

run on Sundays and so I have three-day weekends with my main job >> and so I do Saturdays and Mondays with him.

Okay, that's good. >> So, I guess I could work more hours in the day, but as far as getting another day in, I you know, don't really have >> Here's where we're going. Okay, the the hole that you're in with the two cars is

not huge.

It's a It's a good sized hole, but it's not massive. You didn't call me up with 66,000. You called me up with 6,600.

>> Okay. Making 70 plus 25 an hour on the weekends. And there's a potential for her to do some remote work while the baby's sleeping at home with a CNA. A lot of potential for that. Um, and she could >> 9 months, if I heard the numbers right, 9 months, you're paying off that $6,600.

>> Yeah. If you guys lean in and don't go out to eat and don't go on vacation and sell so much stuff that the kid thinks it's next. And so, you know, you just get you just get real scorched earth on your life. And 100% goes towards her car and you get it paid off. And then a 100% goes towards your car and we get it paid off. I mean, do you have any money in savings?

>> We've got like a thousand right now.

>> Okay. So, you got your baby step one going. Very good, Dylan.

>> Right. >> And you guys are in your 20 early 20s.

>> Yep. I'm 24. She's 21.

>> Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Well, you you I got

to tell you, I'm not thrilled and you're not either with these cars, but I talked to a lot of people that got a lot worse than you, man. >> Yes. So, I think I think you dig straight out of these and keep them.

>> Okay. >> And let's try to be debtree. So, you need about $2,000 a month, and you'd be free in in 10 months.

>> Mhm. So squeezing out of your budget and adding a hour or two to her day, an hour or two to your day here and there, and living on nothing and throwing 2,000 bucks a month out of your budget, a detailed budget on every dollar. And I'll give you a year's worth and get you started here, okay? With every dollar.

So you can get in there and it'll co the new every dollar will coach you up and show you what to do next. But it's going to lead you right through what I'm talking about. Let's get those cars paid off as fast as possible. I think with the math you're giving me, Dylan, I'm keeping them and I'm going to pay them off. >> I agree. I love that because he's going to learn something. And by the way, I want to see this about Every Dollar to you, Dylan, and to our entire audience.

This new Every Dollar is way, way, way more than a budgeting app. I mean, this is literally coaching you through every one of the baby steps. It is so incredible. Dylan, you're going to love this because you're now in this journey.

And if you walk this out, like Dave said, and let every dollar be your coach

and and guide you through because that's what this is now, uh you're going to come out on the other side way ahead of everybody else. And I'm a fan, Dave, of young couples paying off cars and driving them until you have to replace them. >> Yeah. And then pay cash for the new one. >> That's what I like the next one.

>> Yeah. Because it teaches you to delay gratification. >> Yeah. >> Which is hard for American couples to do. >> Yeah. that but they man they're perfect to do that because they're not again they didn't call me up 66,000 which most

people do >> although for a half second you thought it was there >> oh I did >> I was reaching for the tums there's a Volkswagen Jetta out there for 66,000 somewhere I promise you >> so yeah that's just man I felt bad for him but I mean this is this is doable this is very doable >> and uh and uh >> what do you think the average household has because you said something that we skip over too much and I'm going to bring the audience back to what you said. The idea of selling, they think it's a oneliner, but it's not.

Selling so much stuff the kid thinks they're next.

household in America has in their house worth of stuff that they could sell? Any kind of guess? You know, that couple's not been married long. >> Yeah. They don't have a ton of stuff. >> So, they're not as much. But I mean, Americans, we collect crap so much that we get a storage bin and pay rent on a storage bin to the for the crap we haven't touched in 5 years. I mean, we're unbelievable. We we we we are the biggest bunch of hoarders on the planet.

>> So, yeah, you got enough crap that you could put on uh what is it? Facebook Marketplace or whatever. Anything. Just put it out there and get that stuff sold. I don't know. But I think the longer you've been married, the the bigger the accumulation. >> I bet it's close to two grand. Oh, easy,

>> easy. Yeah, you can get your baby step one, your $1,000 in one weekend of garage selling. >> Yeah, >> for sure. Most of you.

>> And then in addition to that, you start popping the other stuff on. But people will buy stuff. I mean, I talked to a lady, God, it's a couple years back.

But, >> you know, eBay was the thing for a long time, right? Everybody's popping stuff on eBay, which is still fine. It's still not a bad place to sell stuff, but Facebook Marketplace pretty much competing with it. But this woman was going to garage sales and buying children's clothing for a dime and a nickel and a quarterelling >> and then reselling it for $3 on eBay to

the tune of like $10,000 a month income.

>> We can get out of debt fast with that.

>> I mean, it's just But that you talk about crap we all have. I mean, >> you know, and this is all like, you know, this is this clo I mean, you think about a a fouryear-old, how much they wear out clothing. They don't they grow so fast. Yeah. >> That they don't they wear it three times and they can't get in it anymore.

>> And you man, how do you think George Campbell has that snappy outfit? He's buying middle schoolers kids clothing and he can wear it. He's repurposing it.

He's not here to defend himself. That's terrible. >> It's awful.

He'll get me back. That's going to cost you. >> I know. He'll get me back. >> That's going to cost you. You broadcast that over the live microphone, Ken. That was >> Listen, he's not back in the coffee shop. >> He looks good in Oshkosh, Dave. You know, he does. >> Hey, gently experienced clothing. There is nothing wrong with a lot of us grew up with experienced clothing. >> Oh, man. Nothing gentle about mind.

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[Music]

[Music] Couple of years ago, I got tired of hearing all the um people say that

opportunity in America is dead and you

might as well give up. The little man can't get ahead. The deck is stacked against you. Capitalism didn't work.

It's a scam. And I guess that just came from the college, the communist college professors. I don't know because I don't know where it came from. It didn't come out here in the real world cuz out here in the real world, people are leaving the cave, killing it, and dragging it home every day.

I don't hear a lot of whining out here in the real world. It's mainly in think tanks and you know and in social media by people who live in their mother's basement.

Uh it's easier to build wealth now than at any time in history. Uh your health

is better. Uh your access to information

is quicker. Your ability to launch into a new thing. The training is unbelievably fast. Everything about it.

So, we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America at that time, just to find out where millionaires really came from. And we found that 89% of them, that's nine out of 10 are not millionaires because of inherited wealth.

So, if your broke brother-in-law doesn't agree with that, this is data. It's a fact. He's what's known as wrong.

So, that's it. That's a fact. It's a

statistical fact. We did the we did a study of people that was over double what it needed to be in size to be stati

stat statistically significant. We know about research. We have a department that does Ramsey research and we had an outside firm look over our shoulder because we knew the lefties would go crazy when we've discovered that capitalism was alive and well. And so we had to, you know, we had to go, "No, you're just I'm sorry. You're wrong, darling. I'm sorry. You're wrong, darling. You don't know. Once again, you don't know. This is this is where it really happens. So, we started also interviewing actual millionaires on the

air and have continued that. We call them baby steps millionaires because a lot of them have followed our baby steps to get there. Not all of them, but a lot of them have. And so, we get to talk to them occasionally. Jennifer is in Fort Worth, Texas. Jennifer, what is your net worth? >> $1.5 million, which still blows my mind

to say out loud. >> I love it. I'm so glad you said it out loud here. I'm proud of you. So, what's the mix on that? What is what what how many dollars of retirement, house, that kind of stuff. Give me the breakdown by category. >> The bulk of it is in my husband's 401k.

It just rolled over a million dollars.

I've got a little bit along the way, but I mostly have been self-employed. So, most of our retirement is in his nest egg. We've got 350,000 in home equity and then the rest of it in non-retirement, you know, emergency fund, cars, savings accounts, that kind

of thing. >> Very cool. How old are you?

>> We I'm almost 52. My husband just turned 52. So, yeah.

>> And what this a minute? >> I know based on what you've already based on what you told me about how it's mixed up. I know the answer to the question, but I'm going to ask you anyway. How much of this was inherited money? >> Not one single penny.

>> Zero. Precisely >> nothing. We grew up dirt poor and we have been working for a lot of years and of course last month it was our 10 year anniversary of coming and doing our debtree scream live on air with you.

>> Oh wow. >> Yeah. >> And now you're worth 1.5 million. Hm.

>> I'm like oh let me hold on to something.

>> I like it. I like it. I like it. Very cool. So you're how long you all been married? >> 30 years. >> Okay. And during that 30 years what's the range of your income? lowest year to highest year. >> The very first year we were married, we were still college students, so I think we might have managed to ek out $15,000

that year. >> When we got our first grown-up jobs, we were about 60.

>> And um this year we're rolling over 300,000. >> Cool. And what are your careers?

>> My husband's an engineer, which you know goes with the territory. And then I'm a psychologist. I've been in private practice for a lot of years, but now I'm a college professor. So >> Ah, very cool. Very cool. And what was his GPA? Do you know?

>> Um, he was right about 3.5.

>> Okay. And what was yours?

>> Undergrad was 3.14. My grad was 365.

>> Okay. Perfect. Okay. Good. Good. And what do you drive?

>> Um, so uh my my husband's in a 20 2022

uh RAV 4 Toyota. I have the Dave carve

which, you know, I love because we have no payments, but it is a nice little sporty car. Lexus UX 200 F Sport 2019

red leather seats.

>> All right. >> It's it's the the the bonus for being debtree. >> I like it. I like it. Well, you both got decent cars because a lot of times when I talk to millionaires, I have to tell them to go buy a car. >> And you got you guys are both you're in pretty good shape on your cars. Good. We that was part of our problem is I like new cars and shiny things a little bit too much back in the day. So now we drive them with no payments.

>> Very cool. Very proud of you. Oh man.

What do you tell people if they're out there listening and they're the uh you guys are 52, you've been married 30 years and they're just getting started and so they're 22 um 23. Can they still be a millionaire

today in America?

>> Oh, absolutely. Why? The biggest the biggest piece of advice that I'm going to tell them as well is don't hide your journey from your kids. One of our biggest goals was to change our family tree. And in fact, we made shirts to that effect when we came 10 years ago.

Our kids journeyed alongside us. We did the smart money, smart kids, you know, with the kids during COVID. We did, you

know, the homeschool personal finance material with our older two who were 13 and 15 at that point. I'll never forget my 15-year-old saying credit cards are stupid. She is going to be 21 this week.

She's a college student. Our middle one's a college student. They are both going nearly 100% scholarship. They'll

be debtree walking out with their degrees instead of the six figure student loan that I had. It's important that you know what your priorities are, right? And so we we actually don't even own all the house we could afford. our house. We still have a bit of a mortgage, but um it's like 15% of our income so that we can, you know, travel

and enjoy life and help our kids with the rest of their tuition. And our youngest is in a Christian school because those things are our priorities.

And being intentional, and you talk about that, I know a lot.

>> Amen. is is important about why you're

doing what you're doing and not just the

next shiny thing which I mean that took us a while cuz my husband and I neither one are savors >> but I mean we're showing pictures of you guys on YouTube like in Hawaii and everywhere else. So isn't like you lived in a cave and collected lint only came out on triple coupon Thursday.

>> The Hawaii trip every about 3 years or so we try to take a super super nice vacation and the Hawaii trip was a reschedule. It got cancelled initially because of >> COVID. >> Mhm. >> And then both of our HCA units went out

and then our water heaters exploded and then we had to have the foundation on the house leveled and I just stomped my feet and said, "Stop taking my Hawaii fund because we kept having to raid the

vacation fund to fix the house." And then we finally saved up again and we were able to take that trip this last January with the kids and had an amazing. >> But now you're 52 >> with a $300,000 income.

>> Yeah. >> And you are worth $1.5 million. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, kiddo. Very cool. >> You know, one of the things you hear in this, and I want to make sure everybody catches it, is there's an unbelievable discipline, but don't miss that what fuels the discipline is a vision for their future life. And it was so fun to see the picture 10 years ago in our old building. Remember that spot so very well. >> And there they are. Kids are little at that time. They're elementary.

>> And and now we get to hear this call on the other side of that. And uh you heard

what I love about what she shared there, Dave, was HVAC going out, house

foundation, stuff that would break

people who are broke. Break them in every way. and they weathered it, got on the other side of it, and now they're on their way to crush it. So, this is the real story that you don't hear in those clickable articles or in the Tik Toks and the Instagrams because there's so much more to this story. So, really heartening uh and really inspiring to hear this call. >> Yeah. As we did that study of millionaires, the thing she was referencing was the top five career

choices of millionaires. most often that appeared to be millionaire is engineer and her husband's an engineer. So, uh very interesting. Um number two was accountant, number three was business executive, number four was teach, number three was teacher, I'm sorry, number four was business executive, number five was uh lawyer,

medical doctor didn't even make the top five. They were number six cuz they're notoriously bad with money. And so uh but incredible, incredible stuff. Why do we tell you guys all this? to remind you you can do it. You can do it. You

talking to you. You You got to make choices and then you can win.

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Pros are handpicked by us to guide you through the market. They're high octane, high protein, get her done people. Find a local trusted pro, a Ramsey trusted pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agents or click the night click the link in the show notes. Alexis is in Oklahoma. Hi Alexis, how are you?

>> Good Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, my husband and I are about with

credit cards and student loans combined about $25,498.96

in debt. Um, he's the only one currently working. I am a stay-at-home mom to

three little ones, and I'm going to school, so things are tight here.

>> Mhm. And busy. How old are the little ones? >> Uh, four, two and a half, and 10 months.

>> And why are you going to school?

>> I'm going to school to be a teacher, just to finish my degree. Um, yeah.

>> To be a teacher?

>> Yeah.

Okay. I know. >> No, I'm there's nothing wrong with being a teacher. >> Yeah. >> I'm just confused. You have three little ones and you're a stay-at-home mom. Why?

And you're going to quit doing that and go be a teacher.

>> Um maybe. Yeah. My my grandma, she passed away from cancer a while ago and she just really wanted to see me graduate. So, I'm kind of doing it for her. >> Well, that's great for her. But you're broke. >> Yeah, I know.

>> And you can still do it later, but right now, how much is this costing you? Give us real numbers on this this degree. How much does it cost? >> So, right now I I'm getting FASA um financial aid and I have um I have a scholarship to where um I get $1,500

split each semester. Um so my semester is probably about 6,000 a little bit more each semester and then after I graduate and I get a teaching position, they'll pay me $4,000 for five years.

>> Yeah.

Um >> and I'm a junior.

>> Okay. So, um,

you know, but you're going to graduate with no apparent use because you're going to stay home and cave with kids,

>> possibly. Yeah. >> The only reason they're doing this as grandma has nothing to do with your life. >> Yeah.

Yeah. I know. And uh >> I mean, I don't I don't want you to not get the degree, but you called me up broke and stuff. >> I know. I know. >> And you're going to school for a degree that you're not going to use.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. Anyway, so what's your husband make? >> He makes $2,493.52

a month. >> Good lord. What does he do?

>> He's an apprentice for an electrician, but he's currently taking like the test to become a journeysman, so he can make more. >> When?

>> Um, he takes it again November 1st. He took it last week and missed it by two points. >> Okay. So when he goes to tourman, as

soon as he passes his test, November the 1st, so another month, >> yes. >> What will he be making then?

>> Right now he makes about $19 an hour. I

I think it'd probably go up to more dollars and then whenever he gets his full, this is just his limited. I think he could go up to $40 depending on where he worked. >> Man, this job sucks.

>> Yeah, >> that's horrible.

You can make that a target >> without passing a test.

>> If you can fog up a mirror, you can make that a target. That's the only test they've got.

>> Is it But this is for sure what he wants to do long term. Correct.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Well, that's part of the process. >> Long-term goal. >> Yeah. No, I I listen, that's the only way to do it. Uh but you he's got to bring in some more income while he's doing that. We're not just We're not just going to keep >> 2400 bucks. >> You're starving to death.

Yeah. >> And you need to pause this education plan if possible. I don't know if you can even do it right now. You're already committed for the six grand, right?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. As soon as this semester is over, you push pause. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Until you get your family up, right?

>> Because y'all are starving to death because you're not working. the time you're spending going to school, you could spend tutoring at 40 bucks an hour and he's got to take some weekend hustles where he's making 30 or 40 bucks an hour because he's getting screwed during his day job until he gets out of this journeyman stuff.

>> Yeah, he did that this weekend. He made about $400 extra this weekend.

>> Good. Like every weekend starting now, ready, set, go. He has three little babies and $25,000 in debt and he's making nothing. You guys are below the poverty level and it's because of your income choices.

>> Mhm. It's not because you're lazy. But when you have three kids in Oklahoma, you're below the poverty level.

>> Yes. >> On his day job. That's how bad his job is. >> Yes. And thankfully our house is paid off. So we don't have a mortgage and we have >> How did that happen?

>> My grandfather saw that we were uh

suffering. So he offered to pay off it.

But it's like I am slowly paying him whenever we can.

>> Oh, so it's not paid off.

>> No. or it's either that or my inheritance if he passed away before.

>> Okay.

Well, um he said don't worry about it.

So, I'm not um >> Yeah, >> I'll just let the uh payment occur at at

at death. Um

yeah, you guys have an income problem, Hunt. That's your problem. >> Mhm. >> And so, if you once you solve your income problem, you're going to solve all the other problems.

And that's where all your stress is coming from is and it's it's math thing. It's not saying you're doing something wrong or you're lazy or anything like that. You got three little babies and you're trying to go to school. I'd have three little babies and I'd be tutoring and he needs to be working weekends and everything he can get his hands on.

Not 19 an hour and you get a 50 cent raise if you pass a test. Give me a break.

That's asinine in today's world. So, I

mean, you can cuz you can walk over to FedEx and throw boxes, man. I mean, and make what? 2022, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he can definitely uh be making more. What I don't know in that particular neck of the woods is what is the standard process for moving into that journeyman role.

Uh, each state is different. Each local economy is different on that. So, I'm not sure.

>> That's right. That's right. >> And so this I'm not I'm not going to lay in this union No thing for very long if it doesn't start paying off. >> He could be making more than 400 even on a weekend.

I mean, he he needs to be doing that up in this income >> and then seriously, we need to either get either get the income up there or pick a different track with the trade that he's in. >> Yeah. >> Because there's there's just not enough money there. And um it's not a union thing, non-union thing.

It's a math thing. If if the union's not paying what everybody else is paying, then the union don't get the deal.

And so, it's supposed to be there for you, but doesn't always work that way.

>> So, Wow. Wow. Ouch. You know, I I

listen, I don't this I I'm not trying to

be controversial, but and here's another thing. Like I All right, I'm not gonna qualify, Dave. You may not even like this, but I'm going to say it. I think you got to be responsible as a young couple. Um, if you aren't earning the

income to be able to provide for three little kids, then that's got to be you got to be smart about that. and and let's let's hold off on the kids until we can actually take care of them because it is it is to me inexcusable

to have three little ones uh and be below the poverty line in the United States. I think there's got to be and I'm not picking I'm just saying you got to be responsible and that may be a controversial take but you got to be able to take care of the people you bring into this world and think of that ahead of time. think of that, not just, hey, let's let's go. Let's do this.

Let's start a family and then not have a plan to take care of them.

>> Yeah. But the difference is one or two phone calls and the whole thing changes.

>> I agree >> in terms of income. >> But I'm saying get some urgency. If you've done that and you can't take care of them, then nothing else matters.

>> Yeah. >> Take care of those. >> Your obligation is not to your employer.

Your obligation is to your family.

>> Yes. If your employer is not cutting the mustard with their pay scale, time to change. And so I don't care that that, you know, that pisses you off if you're union, then just get pissed off. Pisses you off if you're non-union, then it's fine. Just get pissed off. That's fine.

But the deal is this. You You got job one. Like Ken said, job one.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Thank you for being with us. 888255225

is the number. Melissa is in Florida. Hi Melissa, how are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you guys? better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> So, um, basically I am in baby step

four, five, and six. Um, I just recently

paid off my last debt. Um, the problem

is is that I've done step one through

three twice now. And the first time I

did it, um, I ended up getting another car loan. And then, of course, I had to restart again. So, >> the class I did. I did. But you know what? I learned and I moved on.

>> Okay. Glad. I'm in it again.

>> Good. >> Um, so now I I have this fear and um that

that I'm going to go back again. So I'm

really kind of struggling how to plan my

budget to include those things. Um

because last time um we had just paid off a car. It got

totaled, rearended and totaled and then we had no car. So >> why? You didn't have insurance?

>> We did, but >> Oh, you just didn't like the amount that the insurance gave you and you wanted a better car. >> Yeah. >> So it's not the wreck's fault.

>> No, it's not. >> Okay. >> No.

Um, so the car was was worth more to us

than the insurance company and and um we ended up with um not enough to replace

what we had. So we need

>> true dumb. No, no, no, no, no. You got to quit telling yourself lies. Okay. The insurance company pays market value for a car. If they don't, you should sue them. >> When a car gets total, they write you a check for what the car is worth. which means by definition you could go buy that car with that amount of money.

That's the definition of market value.

>> And so they did give you enough to buy that car. You just didn't want it.

>> Oh, well, yeah. I mean, we I couldn't go

out and buy that same exact car.

>> Yes, you could. >> That's market value. If you didn't, you should have sued your insurance company.

>> Okay. >> You understand that? They're supposed to give you market value for the car when you total it. That's that's what the insurance policy is for. You understand?

Yes, I do understand now.

>> Um, now that you told me that, I never thought about it that way. I just assumed this is the situation we're in and I just >> I didn't think of >> What are you so afraid of? This is all mindset stuff. What are you afraid of happening again that you're going to somehow fall back into it? What is the fear?

>> Um, probably my ability to make

decisions. Are you single?

>> No. >> I thought you said we. Yeah. Okay. So, where was your husband during all of this? >> Um, we were doing it together.

>> Uhhuh. Okay. So, I'm afraid about our ability to make decisions then.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Okay. >> Um, I I make a bulk of the money choices, so um I do include him, of

course. Um, but he's he's more like, "Oh, you're better at it. You do it." Um so I have control over everything I

think. >> Okay. So let me tell you when you will um never go back in debt again.

When you decide that you will do anything to never go back in debt again.

When you decide I'm going to live on less than I make for the rest of my life. That's and and no matter what happens, no matter what we make, no matter what the circumstance, no matter what the tragedy, no matter what the drama, we are going to live on less than we make, we are never going into debt again. But that is a that's a principalbased decision. It's not a math thing.

Cuz 100% of the time that you make that decision, your transmission is going to go out next week. And and God says, "This is a test." Like the emergency broadcast system. You remember that?

>> Yeah. and you're going to flunk the test if you don't have this drawn. You know, it's it's pinky swear spit shake. It's it's, you know, >> we're we're doing a contract here with ourselves for our own good.

And you've got to decide that that's more important than a little better car. That's more important than no matter what comes at us, we don't borrow money. That's what Ramsay say. >> And you got to get to where you say that.

And then then you go, okay, something came at us, we can't borrow money because we don't borrow money anymore. So now what are we going to do since this thing came at us and we don't borrow money? How are we going to fix it?

And you got to get to where that's the way you're responding as a as a mindset to life as it comes at you. Whether it's opportunities or uh the other ones is I had a guy bring me a deal the other day that was several hundred million dollars more than I have. And he goes, "Well, you could just leverage." And I'm like, "Dude, who do you think you're having lunch with? I mean, really?

You got to be kidding me. What? What? What planet are you on that you think I'm going to borrow money for any opportunity or any threat?

want bad enough to do that. And when you kind of get that going down inside of you, that's the only thing that there's no there's no fail safe. There's no amount of cash that'll keep you from borrowing money because some some opportunity will come along. You'll get greedy. Oh, I got to be in on that.

FOMO, right? Oh, I got to get that. I got to get that. That's a that's a sweet deal right there. I don't want to miss out on that. Oh. Oh, or you'll feel like

you're pressured or I was forced or something bad happened, a total car and then there we go again. Yeah. The tone that I hear from you is you just don't trust yourself.

And I I just don't know why. And I think

there's probably something deeper there, but you've proven it twice now that you could work this process. Now, you fell.

You mentioned that you fell. You got back up. And now here you are back in four, five, and six. But the issue is the very nature of your question implies to me that um you just don't believe

that you have any agency that you can't do it and and your life says otherwise.

Now I don't know what's going on way back might be worth digging in a little bit but this this idea that I'm going to call Dave and Ken and how do I make sure I don't do this again. We don't have any magical answer because for us we've made this big decision as our friend John Maxwell said make the big decisions early and spend the rest of your life managing that decision. So at this point you got to say am I serious about this decision and then do I believe with great conviction that I can manage this decision the rest of my life.

Same thing with marriage and saying I'm not going to get a divorce no matter what. Come hell high water we're going to figure it out. Uh, I'm going to be healthy with my weight. Yeah, whatever it is.

You >> youth ministry, we used to say it and then I said it to my kids when they were teenagers, too.

>> That is completely correct. >> You got to decide like months before the back seat >> because if you don't decide before you get in the back seat, you're going to have sex. >> 100% chance. Yep.

>> Okay. There's a 100% chance. Man's been doing that since time began. Okay.

you if you're not gonna if you're gonna say I'm not having sex before I get married, then you have to decide that and stand on that long before the heat gets turned up. And so you got to decide before the heat gets turned up, I'm not borrowing money. I'm going to live on less than I make. And uh and by the way, uh your husband needs to step up.

You're better at this.

Larry Bquette said used to say, "If two people just alike get married, one of you is unnecessary." You need to be working together on this and bringing both your strengths and weaknesses to these decisions and you'll make better decisions. In the multitude of council, there's safety

[Music]

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Might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Brett in Texas. I've worked for a large fire department for 5 years. I love my job, but the department is having a lot of issues right now. Our pension is apparently over $1 billion underfunded.

The city takes 13% of my paycheck for my pension, and they do not, excuse me, and they do match those funds. I don't have a say in how the money is managed or used. Is a poorly managed pension a good enough reason to consider leaving? I had always dreamed of making my career here, but with the pension and a few smaller issues, I'm left wondering if I'm currently a passenger on a sinking ship or if I should get to the lifeboats while I still have time.

Um, Dave, I I have to bring you in here. I think it's enough. My answer would be, yeah, it's enough to to leave if you feel like the whole thing is uh a mess, which it sounds like it is, but does he have the option on the city taking?

So, he's stuck. >> No, it's not the pension going down that bothers me. It's the 13% of your income they make you put into something that's going down. >> That concerns me. >> So, in order to keep this job, you have to take 13% of your income into the middle of the floor and burn it every week. >> Yeah. And hope that it's there. >> That's what he's saying, right? So, no thank you cuz 13% of your income invested in a 401k will make you a millionaire. And this won't.

So, sorry, man. Yeah, you got to go to a different fire department. That one's not run well enough to keep you around.

And uh a billion underfunded.

Oo. Feels like that should be a news story. That's a lot.

>> Sounds like like Illinois or Chicago.

>> Do you have any sense of how that happens?

>> Yeah, you do too. >> Miss his poor management. Yeah. >> Well, I think it's almost devious is what I'm >> Yeah, there might there might even be some >> I don't know if that's a oh shucks or a >> Wait a minute. He's not in Chicago. He says he's in Texas. >> Texas. Yeah. >> Where in the crap in Texas or something run that poorly? It just feels like somebody that's unusual doing something.

>> That's a major metro area for it to be that far a billion. I mean, you don't get that in >> Yeah. >> You know, the little suburb, but you're

probably Yeah. You're probably just moving to a different fire department, my man. That's the thing. Golly.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. >> That stinks. >> Cindy is with us in California. Hi, Cindy. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, um me and my husband are at odds

with some money that we received and we are in baby step fourish. We just

started putting more money into my Roth

IRA, like the one I have at work.

>> And then um we're going to max it out

yearly. We have 285,000

left of this money.

and we just need to pay off our house.

>> Okay, good. >> Which is 260,000.

>> Great.

>> Great. But he's laughing, mind you. Um

the thing is is that he wants to invest

it because we're really not set up good for retirement, which on some level I agree with.

But wouldn't it be best to have the house paid off?

>> We have a little How old are you guys?

>> I'm 58. He's 56.

>> Okay. And you How much do you have in retirement?

>> Um, probably 60,000.

>> Wow. >> I guess. Yeah. We're not really Well, >> what's your household income?

>> Well, his is 115. That's his pension.

>> Um, >> he's got he's got he has a pension at 58

>> 56. And so what's what's his income?

Does he work?

>> No. >> Why?

>> Because he recently had um some extreme

medical issues and um he had to retire early.

>> So and it's >> is he going to make it?

>> Yes.

With the grace of God? Yes. Yes. Yes.

>> Is he going to be able to work in the future? Um,

not really. Why? >> But, >> well, because um,

right now we have to wait about a year.

It was a a double lung transplant.

>> Okay. Well, that that makes sense.

>> So, so yeah. So, >> that's pretty severe. I said that's pretty severe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's um >> So, what do you make?

>> Um, about 48,000.

And >> and how much life insurance do you have on him?

>> Um I think I get 100,000.

>> 100,000 or 800?

>> 100. >> Okay. All right. So um if he passes away

financially, you're in really bad shape.

Does the pension survive him? Do you get it if he dies? >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh, then you're not in really bad shape.

Okay. >> No. See, and and and I I see like I

don't plan to retire anytime soon.

>> Oh, you can't. >> You know, where we live, I mean, it's horrible. California money is like our

insurance bills are ridiculous. So, but

that's why I wanted to get rid of it.

But our house payment is 1247 a month

and it's a 3.1025.

>> What's your house worth? >> Interest rate. uh 460 and we owe two the

last statement said 260.

>> Where in California are you

>> go up north? >> Oh, okay. All right.

>> But we're also in fire country. So that is another huge ginormous.

>> Are your family around you? Why are you there? >> Yes. Yeah. No. And we we are married to the hospital we went to. And so we're we

wanted to originally move >> that we had different plans, but now >> So the answer to your question overall is that you are better off if he lives or if he dies with a house paid off.

>> You're better off going into retirement with the house paid off because there's two things you need going into retirement. A large nest egg. In this case, you have a pension and 60,000. and you're going to start putting an old house payment now that you don't have anymore into your 401ks and Roth IAS and

you're going to start to grow those rapidly from this point forward because you don't have a house payment anymore.

But when you go into into retirement, you do not need to still be owing 200,000 bucks on a house when you've got the ability to pay it off. And the number of millionaires that we have interviewed that said the way we made the way we got rich, the way we caught up on our retirement investing was we didn't pay off our house and instead invested the money and that made us rich. The number of millionaires that said that was precisely zero. No one does that that has money, >> right?

>> The people that have money get out of debt and use the increased cash flow because they don't have a house payment anymore to build wealth with. And that's what you guys should be doing in the middle of all this. Wow.

>> Yeah, I I don't know what you say there.

I hope with his lung double lung transplant, the hope that on the other side of this, he can do some work because again, it's all about catchup at this point. >> Yeah. You just need income. >> Yeah. But with no house payment and her income and his pension >> in his pension, you can go ahead and start making some progress and then hopefully as young as he is, he's going to be able to add >> to, you know, collect his pension and

make more uh at doing something.

Obviously, he's not going to be doing some extreme physical thing. Am I crazy

to be a person who goes, "Look, I don't care how much families around us. If I'm

making a comment like that about how expensive estate is, I'm going what's three, four hours away where we can dramatically change our living expenses.

I I get being close to family and I'm not. >> No, she said they're married to the hospital, too. >> I didn't understand that. >> Well, I mean, the lung transplant, they're they're tied in. That's their medical community. >> It's got to be there >> for a while. For a while. For a while.

>> Yeah. >> But I in general, I just I I'm going to

make changes to my life to reset if I

have to. I don't care how close family is to me. >> No, that's what people have done.

There's that's why millions and millions and millions of people have moved. >> Yeah. >> In America. So, and I think they all moved to my neighborhood.

But um >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. No income tax and and you know, >> do you make them sign a uh a statement of living? Well, I'm trying to get a law passed in Tennessee that you can't vote until you go through a proper voting class on how to vote properly, but nobody's nobody's buying off on that.

So, I don't think I don't think I'm going to get elected >> because you're a native Tennessian. So, >> I don't think I'm going to get elected. Yeah. >> You're one of the few in Nashville. You could do your own course. >> Yeah. This is proper voting.

[Music]

[Applause]

If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on or pay the mortgage or afford groceries? If someone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. But how do you

choose? Well, it's actually simple. Life insurance is one job. It's to replace your income if you die. term life insurance is the least expensive and the only kind that does only that. The others like whole life or permanent life try to add investing. They end up doing everything poorly. That's an understatement.

You only need life insurance when someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your income for about 15 to 20 year level term

insurance. Level means the premium stays the same. For more info and resources, use the free termlife insuranceguide at ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide

or click the link in the show notes.

Jim's in San Diego. Hi Jim, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Honor to speak with you and Ken. Thanks for having me on. >> Certainly. How can we help? >> Um, so I've got a question for you. Um,

my wife and I are very blessed. Uh, we are both 30 years old and married a little over a year. Um, we've got about $800,000 in non-qualified assets and another $400,000 in qualified assets.

And we're going to be getting an inheritance of a million dollar. And we're looking to spend >> it on it's a little less than a million, but for rounding purposes, >> um, we're looking to spend it on a house

>> and use that, you know, million as a down payment and get about either a $600,000 loan.

>> I'm uncomfortable with any kind of loans. Uh the last debt I had or that we both had was actually my student loans, which I've paid off at this point. Um and I'm apprehensive about getting a mortgage, especially a $600,000 mortgage. And the question is, do we take the $800,000 and apply that to the $600,000 mortgage, and pay it off, pay off the house in cash with $200,000 remaining in brokerages and bank accounts? or do we use that $800,000

in the brokerages and bank accounts and use the dividends and uh uh uh basically

liquidate some of the assets every year.

>> What do you make?

>> Uh both of us combined were about $200,000 in salary and that's another

120 to 160 and uh bonuses and commissions. >> Right now we're living well underneath the $200,000.

>> But you make 350 and that's where you got the 800 is you saved like crazy.

Yes. >> Okay. So, you're you're maniac savers.

Way to go. That's cool. And you're you're riskaverse, so you're avoiding debt and you're saving both. That's pushing you. And you're doing really well with your careers. Way to go, man.

Congratulations. Such choices to have to make. >> Appreciate that. >> So, the house The house you're living in, what's it worth?

>> Uh, we're thinking it's going to be Well, >> oh, the house you live in today, where do you live today? >> Oh, we're we're renting right now.

>> Yeah. What's it worth?

It's about 2,900 a month as our rent.

>> Yeah. What's the house that you're renting worth?

>> Oh, it's an apartment.

>> Oh, okay. So, you're renting an apartment that's 2,900 a month.

>> Okay. >> And you've still been able to with a $36,000 a year rent bill been able to

save hundreds of thousands a year?

>> Yes. >> Pretty incredible.

I mean, what could you do if you didn't have a monthly housing cost? Wow.

So, you're moving from an apartment to a million6, but a million six in San Diego is no palace. It's a nice house, but it's not a palace. >> Yes. Correct. >> It's It's not a million six in Abalene.

It's a million six in in San Diego.

>> So, um but again, it's nice house. I mean, it's probably the average I think the median now is about 6 or 700 in San Diego and the median nationally is 422.

So, um, >> yes, >> that's that that's probably So, you're about double or a little over double the the median in the area. H Okay. Very

interesting. So, well, the way we look at it is simple. Uh, I in your situation, I would not buy the house unless I paid cash for it.

>> Okay. >> And and the reason is very simple. Um

there's multiple reasons, but there's there's the first one that comes to mind is you'll take the increased cash flow and grow the money back in no time.

>> Okay. >> Okay. A >> and because it's just the way you're wired. Number two, um the damage

that having a mortgage does to anyone is

multiplied when we talk about you

because of the way you're wired.

If most people felt like they put 300 lb on their shoulders doing this, you're going to feel like you put a,000 lbs on your shoulders.

>> Yes. >> And it's going to start affecting everything negatively.

>> Okay. >> And in in ways that are not necessarily

uh directly attributable.

Okay. Here's what I mean by that. Okay.

One of the things I've discovered in my business career and watching people over these years with their careers in general is people make much more

positive career decisions when they're not forced into it to make a payment.

And and so they don't they don't stay in negative toxic environments. Instead, they move to better environments. And people so people that live debt-free end up uh prospering in their careers more

because they can say take this job and shove it.

>> Gotcha. Okay. >> And you're you're going to be like the multiples of that because you're like the ultimate I hate debt saving nerd guy

and I love you for that.

>> Thank you. >> But but debt would do more damage to your spirit than other people's is what I'm saying.

>> Because of >> I feel that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Because of who you are. My wife and I are very riskaverse on the

>> Yeah, she she is, but she's not anywhere near like you.

>> I mean, you're off you're off the chain.

>> You're off the chain in a good way. It's nothing I'm not I think it's awesome. I am too now, but it took me a while to get there. But, I mean, you know, you're you're there and it's caused you look at the look at the cause and effect of that. I mean, you guys made 350,000. You

live in freaking Southern California, one of the most expensive areas in the world, and you banked 800 grand

instead of spending it all. I mean, you guys are incredible.

>> That that that skill set >> set you up to be I mean, you're going to you're have 10 or 20 million dollars in a decade. It's crazy how much money you're going to have. >> I I would just say very simply, trust your gut. It's so obvious to us where you and your wife stand.

You more than her, sure. But you will regret this if you take a mortgage out. You could feel it all over you. And you just don't want to feel that.

>> You'll be fine. >> I think your 350 will turn into 450 in income faster by not having a mortgage than if you took one out. >> It's going to affect your income and people don't think about that. >> I think it affect his every You nailed it.

I think it'll affect his overall mental health. >> That's what I mean. >> He's just not going to do well with that, which is great. >> Yeah.

I mean, I I don't have no idea.

haven't been able to get any good research and we've not done the research to tie all the way back for the rest of you folks, not for him, but for all of us. Um the tie between um uh uh uh

actual physical illness and debt levels.

>> Yeah, I would love to see that because I mean the the So I mean what if you what if you could actually figure out that a certain number of heart attacks out of a thousand heart attacks are caused by financial stress? Then we could say that debt actually has a cost, a medical cost

because you have to pay for the hospital when you have a heart attack, right? And you've shortened your lifespan.

>> Why? Because you're carrying so much debt and there's hypertension. I mean, what hypertension is number two right now? High blood pressure, right?

Heart attacks, right? But so we we don't have any actual data to back that up. But what if you went through all the heart attacks and you pulled out the debt levels versus those of us that not had a heart attack and had no debt and see what the actual correlations are. It's got to be there, y'all.

Common sense tells you it's there. And then so then you factor in, okay, I'm making I got a mortgage of 4% and I invested it at 4.5%. I'm making a spread. No, not with you.

Not with a heart attack adjustment.

>> That would change the math, wouldn't it, Ken? >> Yeah, it really would.

would be different. But nobody talks about that kind of stuff. Oh, wait a minute. The percentage number one cause of divorce in North America today? Money fights. Money problems. You know who has money fights and money problems? Broke people more than rich people. Rich

people don't fight in money about money nearly as much as poor people do. Broke people. I mean, Sharon and I about killed each other when we went broke. I mean, she's from the hills of East Tennessee frying pan throwing. There's an Olympic event. Like even the German judge gave her a 9.9. I mean, come on.

Right. And it's like, God. So, yeah. I mean, you It's no fun. No fun. So, I

mean, what if the cost of a lost marriage due to financial stress was factored into your little formula where you thought you were making money with borrowed money? Oh, it would kind of dissipate that, wouldn't it? Oh, yeah.

Put the heart attack and the divorce factor on there. Kind of does away with the whole idea that borrowing money is really smart.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3:1 and2. For there is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens. A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant

and a time to uproot. Rosa Park said, "Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground." That's good.

That's fun. All right. Uh Devon is in

Ohio. Hi Devon. How are you?

>> Good. Good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? Uh, so just really I have a couple questions here. I'll just kind of give you a rundown of what I got um as far as debt wise and um everything else here.

So my total debt's about 182,000. Um

138,000 of that is in my mortgage for my house. Um I have 43 acres. It's nice piece of property. Um the other debt is

my service truck that I use for work. Um it's $43,000.

Um, so that being said, I have some other equipment as well. Um, I got like dozers, excavators, pickup trucks. Those are all paid for in cash. Um,

that's going to equivalent to about $95,000.

If I sold all that, that's what I would have in cash. Um, also have a rental

house that's 100% paid for. Um,

and I have about $30,000 in state.

>> Okay. And what's the rental house worth?

>> Uh, probably lower 200s. Um, just

recently. >> What's your house in 43 worth?

>> Uh, lower 400s.

>> Okay, good for you. Well done, sir. What kind of service work do you do in the truck? >> Uh, field mechanic. Uh, I traveled for the last four, four and a half years for a stabilization company and found a job closer to home that basically they're leasing my truck off of me now. So, kind of a pay upgrade, if you will.

>> Okay. And so, you're you're you're turning a wrench on what?

>> Uh, just different types of equipment.

Excavators, dozers, you name it, I fix it. >> Okay. Heavy equipment. Okay, cool. Good for you. >> And thus, you've run into some bargains and bought some and you've got 43 acres to play on it with. Always looking for a deal. >> Yeah. Yeah. What's your income?

>> Uh anywhere from 130 to 145,000

a year. >> All right. Um and your question is what, sir?

>> So, basically, I have this debt. Um I would like to get my truck service truck paid off. >> Good. >> Um it's technically in my name, but I'd like to get it switched over to my business name. That way, that is in my business. >> Yeah. But you're not going to get the loan. You can get the truck turned over, but not the loan.

>> Right. Correct. Yeah.

>> All right. You got to pay it off. I agree. Okay. What else?

>> Um my next thing is when I sell um this

equipment and my pickup trucks and stuff that I've paid cash for over the last 5 years, um should I take that money and pay the rest of my house off or should I invest that money um into some more real estate? >> Yeah, good question. Okay. Well, if I'm

in your shoes, um,

uh, I'm going to sell the $90,000 worth

of equipment and pay off the truck and

pay towards the house, and that gets me down to less than 100 on your home.

Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And um then I would look at and

say, "All right, how old are you?" >> Uh, 24. I'll be 25 Friday.

>> Way to go, dude. That that that's a

super impressive. I thought I thought you were going to tell me 34 with these numbers. You've done really well.

>> Well done, young man. Well done. All right. Uh that's that's that's impressive. Um

that does ch that calms my answer a

little bit. Okay. Yeah.

>> Uh because you got lots of time. Okay.

And so I don't want to stay in debt and wallow around in it because you're young. I don't mean that. But I would sell the equipment because you're going to run into other equipment. You're always going to be able to buy a piece of equipment for five grand, turn it for 10.

>> Yeah. >> You you're going to run into that and you know the equipment because you turn a wrench on it.

>> Yep. >> No horses involved, but but you know what I'm talking about. So, >> yeah. So, anyway, the uh um

>> that and that's going to always be a part of your income because of the way you work. So, yeah, I would sell the equipment, pay off your truck, pay down the mortgage, and then I would just begin to say, "All right, out of my 130,000 with no truck payment,

uh h how can I begin to attack that

100,000? And when could I be done with it?" I mean, you could be done with it in like three years if you watch what you're doing, right?

>> Yeah. >> And you'd be 100% debtree with a paid for $400,000 house, a paid for rental house of 200. That's 600. And

then you start, you know, you start your long-term investing and your Roth IAS and some good growth stock mutual funds. You sit down with a good smart investor pro and uh dude, you're going to, you know, you're going to be a millionaire by the time you're probably 28.

>> That'd be sweet. >> Yeah, that's where you're headed. Um, if you follow just that basic idea there and then, you know, when you make some extra money, don't blow it. Let's just chunk it on the house. Just get the house done because here's the thing. We were talking about this a minute ago before we picked up with you that um

you're going to make different decisions on which clients you want and you're

going to make more money in your business when you don't have a single debt. >> Your business is going to flourish because you're clean and there's no pressure. You know, you know what I'm talking about when you know that they certain customers are not worth the juice ain't worth the squeeze, >> right? You know, some of them are such butts, they're not worth working with for any amount of money.

>> The way I have it set up right now is I'm technically in the union, so the company that I'm working for um pays all my um pension and health and all that.

Um I have about $40,000 in my pension right now. Um >> that's a good start, but I want you to have independent IAS also.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> I want you to have Roth IAS going in addition to that.

um not just the union pension but son I

mean sir you have done an incredible job I'm very proud of where you are and here's the other thing that I know the other reason I know you're going to be successful not only that you've made the progress you've made to be where you are at 24 but also the way you're asking these questions you're being you're paying attention you're being very intentional >> correct >> and you're making good this you know some of the stuff you suggested before I even started there was things I was going to suggest >> real quick question How old were you when you got started, Devin, in in this work?

>> Uh, in the heavy equipment industry working on it. Um, I went through a four-year apprentichip program. So, I didn't make the money I'm making now the last two years. So, I would say the last two years I started making 100,000.

>> Yeah. But what how old were you when you started the program? Were you 20? Were you 18? 19? >> Yeah, I was 20. Yep.

>> Yeah. I just And reason I did that is because again, this is you're going to start seeing more and more of these stories in the United States. young guys that are skipping the college route and and going into this kind of a deal. And we're talking about a dude who's not only gonna be a millionaire, he's probably gonna be a very successful small business person.

>> Already is. >> Yeah. >> Well, I'm talking about >> not a millionaire, but he's already a successful small business. >> But I'm talking about where he's got a team.

>> and um and he turns turns a wrench on heavy equipment. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's That's a whole lot smarter than spending $250,000 to get a degree in left-handed puppetry and then being a barista. >> Kid's 24 years old and he's got a house, a rental property that he owns cash.

>> Yeah. >> I just I'm just pointing this out because I'm so tired of the dril of

coming from all the complainers about how no one can win today.

>> Oh yeah, capitalism is dead.

>> Well, don't tell Devon. Okay, >> this is a poster child. >> Don't tell Devon. Don't tell Deon you can't get ahead in America. Don't tell Devon all the opportunities used up.

Don't tell him that the deck is stacked, that there are systemic problems with the economy. Don't you understand?

>> And by the way, he paid his dues. I hope everybody heard that part, too. He wasn't making this kind of money until So, it takes time.

>> Yeah. Some of y'all need to look up what he's got on his hand. It's called a callous.

>> Y'all need to look that up. It'll be good for you. Yeah.

>> So, wow. That's impressive.

>> It's great. It's a great story. It's not glamorous work either. I don't get it.

>> I mean, our our buddy Mike right now would be doing the >> Mike Ro be doing the Trump dance right this second, >> but that's it. But yeah, this is Mike's guy. That's right. >> And I Hey, I I agree with him. I agree with him. It's not for everybody. But this idea that that you know, >> you you need to become a teacher because your grandmother said to.

>> No, maybe not.

Maybe that's a bad idea. Maybe you need to become a teacher because we need great teachers and you're going to go into the classroom and actually teach after you get your degree in teaching.

There's a reason to become a teacher.

Oh, let's think about that for a minute.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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## 96. It’s Time To Set Boundaries And Start Saying “No!” | December 3, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `3iVaJeFB_QA` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iVaJeFB_QA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:56:07 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you with your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of Front Row Seat, one of our more popular Ramsay network shows. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at825-5225.

Jack is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Jack. How are you?

>> Doing well, thank you Dave and Ken.

Thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah. So, basically my grandfather had

passed away about 5 years ago and he had

left a trust to his three children. Um,

and basically the way it had been set up

is that after my father passed away, um,

I would receive a lump sum. um each of

those uh each sibling got a lump sum

payment from that trust. Um however, for

my dad, he has been historically been

bad with money and it was set up for him

that he would receive payments annually

in the trust. Um and then once he passes

away I would receive the lump sum. And

after after this he is basically saying

that he wants to

have me sign a document that releases

the trust to him and he plans to spend

the money. And he's threatening me by

bribing bribing me with $5,000 upfront.

>> $5,000.

How much is in the trust?

>> From what I understand, whenever my grandfather was still around, um I

believe his portion is between 250 and

300,000.

So, you're going to trade. He's asking you to trade $300,000 for 5,000 bucks.

>> From what it seems, he has said that he

wants to take that lump sum and he wants

to renovate his house because he is 63

years old. Um, he works as a lawyer and

he wants to renovate his house. He wants to buy a new car and he claims that I

will have the rest of the money.

However, with his historic run of

dealing with finances, I don't believe

that there will be any money left.

>> Hey, Jack. Hey, Jack. Quick question.

You've used two words with us. You said threatened and and bribe. What What does

that actually look like? I haven't heard any evidence of that.

>> I would say it's it's definitely more so bribing. Um him just throwing out one

time he said the first time he said,

"I'll get you $10,000."

Then the second time we had talked about it, he said that he would give me $5,000

upfront.

Um >> Okay. So, what kind of I mean, I'm I'm

sorry. It it's it's just um the math is

not mathing. I mean, he he's so

illogical that he actually believes you would trade 5,000 for 250.

>> That's just bizarre to me.

>> I totally agree. >> What planet does he live on that he thinks you would do that?

>> I don't know. >> I don't either. >> Okay. So you're using words like bullied and bribed with your own father, irresponsible about your own father.

Your grandfather thought he was irresponsible. So you're not going to do this. You had already decided that before you called, right?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> So how can we help you? >> However, >> Yes. Um I really just want to know how

to navigate that conversation with my father because >> Okay. You you want to know something that's impossible. It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable and make him reasonable with one conversation.

That's not possible. Okay? So th this

unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable

no.

There's no way you can frame a no that

this guy's going to like it

and he's going to go, "Oh, thank you, son. I just love you so much. I'm so proud of you." That's what you wish would happen. There's no conversation that does that because of what you're dealing with on the other side of this.

You know, it's like petting a crocodile and going, "Nice crocodile. Nice crocodile." And hoping you don't get your arm bit off. Of course, you're going to get your arm bit off. It's a crocodile.

So, you know, that's what we're dealing with. So, I I I wish I could make this

make you have a good dad, but you don't.

And so what I can do is just give you the real the real realistic expectation which is you preserve your dignity, your

courage, your kindness, your integrity.

That's the only thing you have control over. You don't have control over his reaction.

So you gently and kindly say, "Dad, grandpa put this in place and I'm just going to abide by grandpa's wishes.

Thanks for asking. I'm sorry it doesn't work for me and we're just going to leave the thing set up like it is. But thanks for asking. I I hope you can find another way to get your house renovated and get you a car since you're a lawyer and all. But and I'll be cheering for you cuz I love you and and he's still going to go bonkers, isn't he?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So 100% be expecting that.

Anything less than bonkers, we'll call it gravy on the biscuit. We'll call it a bonus. But I'm counting on bonkers.

Yeah, I Jack, I don't know if you've ever had surgery before, but I would say that your mindset here has got to be uh the same as going into surgery that you have to have. It's not fun. It's going to hurt. It's going to be some recovery time, but it absolutely has to happen.

And on the other side of the surgery, you're going to be better off >> and there can be healing. >> That's right. And I think you have to go into this going, there's just no way. I think Dave framed it beautifully, but his response to what Dave said, you've got to understand this is one of those situations in life that was forced on you.

You cannot control your dad or the situation he's put you in, but you got to do what's best for you. So, that's the mindset. There's no way this is not going to suck, but on the other side, you're going to be better. >> Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.

Okay? We're not going into a bunch of explanation or discussion of his character or the history of the family tree. We're not going to try to explain this to him. We're not going to go into a bunch of detail. It's a simple thing.

Dad, you know, I love you and I've thought about this and I I think I'm just going to stick with grandpa's plan and that's what we're going to do. So, I hope it works out for you and I'll be cheering for you.

and just that that that's what 10 seconds maybe of audio and that's all

you need. The longer you talk, the more

you're going to mess this up. So, I use

that when over 35 years now of running a

business on in the rare occasion that we actually have to let someone leave this place. We don't have long discussions.

We've had long discussions up to that point trying to get them better. But the day they leave, it's like the decision has been made. Today is your last day.

That's it. We don't go into why cuz why

has been discussed in the 90 days previous

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>> John is in San Jose. Hey, John. How are you?

>> I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. So, I just have a quick question.

Uh, a little bit of a background. Uh, I

have a job as an analyst making around

120K. >> Um, I got a notice last month and they

pretty much uh I I got laid off. So, my last day was yesterday.

>> Um, essentially my question is I live in

San Jose, California. My house is worth around $750,000.

Uh my dad actually gave it to me. Um 32

years old, and um so I have uh $50,000

in student loans, $25,000 in a personal

loan, $25,000 in uh in a car loan, and then around

$5,000 in credit card debt.

>> Mhm. And because of the job loss, I'm kind of concerned right now the market's kind of uh bad in like the tech se sector. So

I'm wondering like if I were to default on these loans, like can they take uh

can they forell my home or how does that look like? And you know, will they be willing to like settle on some of this debt? I do have around uh $10,000 in savings and around $50,000

in 401k money that I can pull out if

needed. >> Are you married?

>> Uh yes, I am married. Uh that's another thing. My wife used to work. She made around 60 to $70,000 a year, but she

paused that cuz she's now she just got into law school and she's uh fulfilling

her dreams of becoming a lawyer. Mhm.

>> What were you making? 120.

>> 120 >> with no house with no house payment. And yet you still ran up all this debt.

>> Uh I do have a house payment. It is

around $1,300.

>> Oh, I thought you said the house was free and clear. How much is your mortgage balance? >> No, there's a mortgage around $50,000.

>> Oh, okay.

So, I do have a house payment and uh housing in the Bay Area is pretty expensive. So, you know, um apart from

like the debt that I have and utilities, like I'm spending around maybe >> Okay, you got a notice a month ago. Why have you not gotten a job?

>> I I've been applying. I've been getting interviews, but I have noticed that it's been uh fairly slow. So, yeah, actively applying uh actively going into interviews. So, um, yes, working on it.

I I guess I'm just, uh, concerned about like if the the job market is as severe

as like it is. Like I I think I have enough money to cover myself for like maybe about four to 6 months. Uh, but I

am worried about that 6 months.

>> The money you gave me doesn't cover you four to six months. You can't make it four to six months on $10,000.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, yeah. >> All right. So, there's a bunch of there's a bunch of answers to this question. All right. And let's let me give you all of them.

>> Um, >> first and foremost, you get reemployed and this is a non-issue and that's what you spend all of your calories on.

That's what you work on and Ken can really help line you up on that. And then I'll move on. If you don't get reemployed, um, really you just ought to have your butt kicked. If you don't go get some money coming in, go get a job, okay? And Ken's going to help you with all that. But if you don't, let's just pretend you never work again, okay, for the next year and a half. Okay? So, you will have to pay the first mortgage payment or that 50,000 will foreclose on you. You know that.

>> Yeah. In which case, if I really needed to, I can call my dad and he'll pay the mortgage. So that I guess that's not really the issue. But he my the just I I I guess a background

is my dad's kind of like you. He hates debt. He he doesn't get any credit card.

>> Yeah. He's not real proud that you ran up $25,000 on a personal line. $25,000

on a car after he gave you a dad gum house.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's pretty stupid.

>> Yeah. And that's what he's going to say, too. Sounds like. Okay. But yeah, so

you're not going to lose the house from the foreclosure that way. Will the other people put a lean on the house and force the sale of the house? In California, it's almost impossible to do that. Okay.

They eventually would sue you, not the student loans, but the personal loan, the car repos first, then they sue you on the deficit or they sue you on the credit cards or whatever else. When they sue you, they win the lawsuit. after they win the lawsuit, they execute on the lawsuit and that's when in some states they can take a lean on your residence and a lean on your income called a garnishment.

But all of that is six or eight months from now at the earliest.

Your biggest concern is making the mortgage payment >> and your biggest concern is just getting another job and then clean up this dad gum mess when you get your new job. So you're not vulnerable like this.

Yeah. No, I know. I Yeah, I know. I made

uh some dumb decisions. So, you know.

>> Okay. >> So, about about getting the job.

>> Yeah. I My question is, and there's no question the employment market is softening. There's no question about that. I don't know your area. But what was your tech specialty?

>> Uh I'm a I'm an analyst.

>> Okay. But do you have any other tech skills? In other words, what did you do on the ladder up to becoming an analyst?

So I guess a bit of a background is I used to work like manual warehousing

jobs. Okay. And then I recently got uh

through my education and I got promoted into an analyst position. So >> other than like manual labor and analyst work, that's pretty much what I >> Okay, great. So here's here's the thing. Dave's exactly right. We want to focus on short-term then long-term. So while you're looking for long-term, meaning getting back in the tech industry, there's two strategies. If I were you, this is what I would do first. I would be absolutely beating the door down for all and any kind of contract type

opportunities. So freelance work. So what what we see in this job economy right now, this is true of tech is where you may see a slowdown in hiring of full-time positions. What they start to do is they look for contract workers, freelance.

So I would be looking for all those opportunities. Even if it's a short-term, I got a four-month deal here. I jump in and take it. All right, that's why you're looking for the long-term role.

But the second thing I would be doing is, and this is where people make a mistake, they take activity of I'm applying. I've had some interviews and gosh, the market's a little tough. All that's true, but you need to go back to the warehouse. Get back in the manual labor game because we have a $1,300 mortgage payment.

And then the rest of the four walls, right? And that's your utilities, that's the the car, the the transportation, uh groceries, all that kind of stuff. you and your wife have also got to sit down and go, do we need to press pause on law school?

in a financial problem. I wouldn't call it a crisis, but if we both go to work right now, we can cover the mortgage and

every bit of this until we get back on our feet. But I'm hearing a mentality here, which is gosh, Dave, Kim, what do I do? The market's tough and I'm I'm going to Could they take my house? That is the wrong question. The question is, how can I make the amount of money? How

can my wife and I together make the amount of money we need to make it until I get a more stable job situation? Hey, John. >> Period. >> Hey, John. >> Yep. >> Can I love you enough to be mean to you for a minute?

>> Yeah. You give me permission? You give me permission?

>> Yes. Yes, sir. >> You don't sound like a motivated person.

Uh, I guess it's just like the mixture of uh, you know, getting laid off and it >> could be. But your dad's willing to jump in, pay a house payment. Your dad gave you a house thing. Your wife's in law school.

You just don't sound like you're fired up about this. And in the world I come from, you get you get fired up about this. And yeah, you got knocked down, but they gave you a month notice and you still hadn't fixed it. And you got you got you got bills to pay, people to feed, man.

So, I want you to get wired up and fired up. Get up off your butt and go be a man. Go knock some stuff down, dude. Um, don't call your daddy up for payments.

Let's get with it.

okay? And and so I'm going to love you enough to be that mean to you. Um, I know you're knocked down. I know you're a little bit down the dumps, but hey, it's FedEx and UPS.

Go load boxes. It's Christmas time. They'll hire you today and then get up off your butt and go fix this and get you a job. making 120 and then clean up this lazy butt financial mess you made and quit doing this.

You have too good a head start. Way too good a head start. Go fix it, man.

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Josh is in Greenville, South Carolina.

Hi Josh, how are you?

>> I'm doing well, sir. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh my question today is I'm in the process of starting to track down the debts I've got floating out there. And looking on Credit Karma, I have figured out that in the grand scheme of things, I really don't have that much debt. It's only about $5,200.

Um, but it's split between three

different collection agencies. So, today I decided to try to call and negotiate those down to try to get those dropped down to where I say, "Hey, I've got this much money. Can we close this out to where I owe you guys no more money and send me a piece of paper before I send any payment?" And what I figured out today is those guys are not very nice.

And my question to you is, how do I need

to word the negotiation process to

really better my chances to get it to where I can lower this down and get this debt closed out? >> Yeah. So, what caused you to be in collections?

>> Oh, whole

lifetime of bad choices. um went from I

was in the military for 4 years and in the process of that I I got married uh

acrewed some debt by some bad choices.

Uh a lot of that has actually gone away

just with time. >> What's happened that's caused you to uh decide to step forward and clean this up?

>> I am wanting to wipe the slate clean, start over and get a fresh start. My parents have followed your plan and have

themselves gotten debtree and it is

>> I am 29 about to be 30.

>> Thank you for your service to your country, sir. >> Glad to do it, sir. >> So, um All right. Do you know the uh So,

the 5200 is three. Give me an example of one of the three.

>> The largest of which would be $2700 and

worth 27.48. So, 278. Is that the

current balance or the original balance?

>> I believe that's the current balance. Uh it's just what it shows on Credit Karma when I pull up the app and look at it.

>> All right. So, did you call and talk to them and did you try to give them $2,748?

>> Uh I called one of the smaller ones.

Okay. >> Um there was one that was $218. I called

them >> and I essentially said, "I have $1,000 I

can pay you today." >> Mhm. if you send me a piece of paper

that or email, mail, some form of document that said this that this account is closed >> and I owe you no more money, >> right? >> And what when I when I brought that up

after finally getting through um to somebody, he >> essentially told me that that's not how that works. >> It is how it works. And what happens next is if you don't agree to this, I'm going to hang up on you and I'm going to call the next one and give him the $1,000 because you're too stupid to take it. This is how you talk about. >> That is exactly how I worded it, too.

And I said, "Well, I have somebody else on my list. If you don't want to take my money, I'll call my next person." >> Yeah. And then just do that three times a day until you get through to somebody that has two brain cells. Cuz what happens with these people that are uh credit card collectors and old debt collectors in these situations, they're national companies.

They're sitting in cubicles, 150 people in an office or they're working from home, one of the two. And there's, you know, fluorescent lights overhead.

>> And uh it's a horrible job. And they have figured out that if they can elicit

emotion from you, get you angry or afraid that your thinking centers of the brain don't operate anymore. you move to the frontal lobe into the lizard brain,

which is fight or flight. And if they can get you where you're not thinking, you will not think and pay them.

>> Yeah. It's funny you bring that up because I actually just recently had a situation happen where I was scammed out of a large amount of money and that is exactly the strategy they used.

>> Yeah. And so fear and anger are the two

things they're trying to activate. And so if you'll just remember that the person you're talking to has an average time on the job of 21 days,

you now have more training than they do after you and I have this discussion.

They're only taught to do one thing.

Piss the guy off and you'll get money from him.

>> And so anything they do, they make up all kinds of stuff. They'll call your wife names. They'll call your dog names.

They'll talk about your mama. I mean, it's it's on and on and on. It's just it's a game. It's a psychological game.

And just go. So, I'm going to return to short, quick sentences that are very calm. It's like, hey, I understand that this is your job and you're trying to this technique, but here's the deal. It doesn't change the fact I got $1,000 and it doesn't change the fact I'm getting ready to hang up and call the next guy.

So, do you want to talk about this or not? Yes or no? And if you say anything other than yes, I'm going to push end on

my phone and this conversation's over.

You ready? Here's your opportunity. say yes and when they go b just hit hang up.

>> Okay. And then just move on. And you may have to call five or six times to each one of them to get it figured out. But you're exactly right. Do not give them electronic access to your checking account. They lie. They'll clean you out. Uh only wire them money or send

them a prepaid debit card with the exact amount on it and that's all that's ever going to be on that card and it's done.

Something like that. And you must have it in writing because they lie. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving before you do it. Now, if you

have $5,200, life's going to be a lot

easier if you just get it in writing that this is the actual amount and then I will send you the money. Okay? But if you want to try to settle it for 50 cents on the dollar like you're doing because you don't have the money because you got scammed, um then that's how you're going to do it. But you've just got to remember this is a an industry that is based on very primitive juvenile

techniques and they they have zero ethics at all

and so you you people call making the mistake of thinking I'm talking to a normal human being and this is not a normal conversation like if you owed me money or I owed you money Josh I mean we would talk and we would try to be somewhat reasonable. We might be angry or we might but we're still going to try to keep a connection and but that that that has nothing to do with what you're doing here. You're just jumping into a barrel of piranha and trying to get out with your skin on. That's all you're doing.

>> I love that you lay that out for folks because I'd love for you to weigh in on this. They have to know that they're not going to get most of that money. So, they only have those techniques.

what Dave just taught you, uh, Dave, they they will settle that. They're just thrilled to get a,000 bucks. Truth be known. Is that fair? >> Yeah. Most of the time. Yeah. Because they they know they they've done the numbers. It's a game. >> Yeah. They get And if it is a um someone calling you, it could be a debt buyer

and you can buy old bad debt. Mhm.

>> People buy blocks of it and then try to collect it, right? You can buy that for about a nickel on the dollar.

>> Wow. >> So, I mean, you were here a few years ago. I remember that. We bought $10 million 8,000 accounts. $10 million worth of debt for $259,000.

>> And then that was our Christmas part of our Christmas around here. Uh 8,000 accounts. We had a,000 people. Each person got to call eight people and say, "In Jesus' name, your debt is forgiven." And that's merry Christmas. And we're going to send you an email telling you that. And so for 259,000 we got rid of $10 million worth of debt. That was two and a half cents on the dollar. >> Crazy. >> So, but we got a bargain on it because they knew what we were doing. They knew we were just forgiving it.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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Pre-order today at ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Daniel is with us in New York. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing all right, Dave. How about you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so I'm 29 and I'm planning on going

back to school to become a radological technician or a X-ray tech and I'm

trying to figure out whether or not I should keep investing or if I should stop investing to pay for school as I go. >> Um, how much is school?

>> So, they charge 800 a credit and it's for an associates degree. So, it's going to be $48,000. Uh that's not including

fees, textbooks, and travel because I have to travel uh once a semester as well. And I'll be doing clinicals uh depending on the site.

>> So do you know the all-in number from >> So what's the number? >> I do not know the all-in number. Rough guess is 60,000.

>> Sounds right. What do you make now?

>> Right now I make 58,000.

>> So how long is it going to take you to save 60,000?

Um, I'm actually pretty close to that because I was supposed to be getting married next year. Unfortunately, things didn't work out. So, I have $54,000 in the bank right now. >> Oh, okay. Is this a full Is it full-time

school? >> Yes, it'd be full-time. Um, it'd be full-time. >> How are you paying for food while you're in school?

>> So, I'm still at home with my family because I was figuring stuff out for a while and my act of the time we're going to move out. So, I'm still mom and dad at the time. >> How old are you?

>> 29. >> Okay. You said that. I'm sorry. H how h why X-ray tech? Why? How'd you pick this? >> Uh so I work as a security guard in a medical facility and one of our departments is imaging and this seems like it's I've always been interested in

capturing like images and stuff and working with photography.

>> I never really got around to it though.

I was always interested but never really applied myself because I was too lazy and then I decided to make a major

change and trying to start pushing my life forward and make big changes and I think this is the right one. >> Yeah. How long does it take to get through the school?

>> Uh the school is online.

>> How long does it take to get through the school?

>> What do you mean to get to the school? >> Same question. How long How long is it going to take you to graduate?

>> Oh, two years. I'm sorry. I thought you said to get to the school. It'll take me two years to graduate. >> So, you can't do any kind of work while doing this program for two years.

>> No, I'll be working full-time. I'll be working full-time as my security guard.

I work from 6:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. And then I finish my shift at I finish at 2 and then I'll be work I'll be going to class from 5:00 p.m. to 10 p.m.

>> Fantastic. I don't see why you need to stop investing. What is your Do you have any debt?

>> I have no debt. Well, >> what does your current investing program look like? what are you doing?

>> So, I was investing 6% into my company

401k. They matched back and put 2% and then at the end of the year they put 5.5. So, at the end of the year they match 7.5% and then I was investing into a >> If you if you keep investing, you don't have any overhead to live and you're earning money. You would have the money to get through school with the 54,000 if if you keep investing. So, it's not really an eitheror, is it?

No, it's not. >> Okay. So, let's start school today and let's keep investing and keep working.

Ready, set, go. >> Yeah, I'm already enrolled. I should be

starting January 5th. I'm just waiting on a uh >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, the only question we had then is do you stop investing? No, I don't think you have to because you got 54,000 in a full-time job.

>> Mhm.

>> So, you'll have the money. It the investing won't keep you from completing school. mathematically.

>> No. >> Okay. It will not. >> Then keep investing. Yeah. Absolutely.

That's easy. That's easy. Okay. Took a minute to get through your whole story, but yeah, that's good. I like it. Very good. Proud of you, man. >> Go get it. He's got a plan. He's executing a plan. How cool is that?

>> It is cool. I loved his answer. Quick little lesson for people. Here's a guy that he's trying to figure out what he's doing. He called himself lazy. A lot of self-awareness there. And he's security guard in a facility that has a craft

that he's intrigued by. He clearly does his homework and he goes, "I've always been interested in capturing images." He never probably thought of being an X-ray tech, but now this is what I would call a new trade and this this is a very very

essential, if you remember that stupid word that was thrown around during CO.

This is a good trade to pick up. He's got some opportunities, Dave, to branch off of that. So, this is a great move here. >> It's a good first step in his medical career. >> That is correct. >> Yeah. It's not the end. No, a good first step. puts him on a good ladder. >> Yeah. But also, he's your book, The Proximity Principle, he's in proximity.

>> That's right. Very slow. >> With something that he ends up doing.

Exactly. >> Although it had nothing to do with what he was actually hired to do. >> That's right. There's a good chance, by the way, that when he finishes the program, he he comes back into that same building.

He just changes out the work clothes. >> And I love that, you know, >> you know, I wonder if they would pay for it. >> It's very possible. It depends on the demand.

Do they need people? And this is key. Great question, Dave. Because here's the thing.

In that case, Dave, you would you would see a lot of companies go, we like you, we'll invest in you. The deal is you got to come work for us. It's >> already working for them. >> He's already in the building.

So it's an employee benefit to pay for continuing ed to work for us in a different department like you said change clothes >> and the correlation by the way Dave is always is there a higher demand from employers they need people >> they usually do especially in the medical field Jeff's in Springfield. Hey Jeff how are you >> fine I hope you're doing well >> better than we deserve.

>> Well uh I'm a 68-year-old uh semi-retired guy. um that my wife passed

away uh four years ago unexpectedly.

>> Life goes on. I call it Jeff 2.0.

>> Mhm. >> Um and uh I'm retired. I I've got a

great pension. I get about $80,000 a year in my pension. >> Mh. >> And I have about uh $80,000 in

investments, including 401ks, and my house is paid for. Uh and I make

>> I just looked up at my clock and I'm running short on time. What's your question?

>> Uh I recently found recon reconnected uh

with a prof health help uh with a uh old girlfriend and uh the problem we're talking about getting married. The problem is she's a health professional got $100,000 in student loan debt uh and

some other bills and I said my house is paid for. I'm pretty much debtree. If we go any further in the relationship should I get a free up and things like that before, you know? No, y'all just work on getting that debt paid off.

>> You got 80 coming in. She's got money coming in. Y'all reach over and get that debt paid off. You know, you don't want to live. Listen, if you're 68 and you live to 88, that's the next 20 years a student loan hanging over your head.

>> Nah. If you're going to get married, clean it up. >> Yeah. You It's not 800,000. It's just a handful of money. You can do this. You can do this. No, we don't need a prenup for something that small. If you got, you know, if it's if you got $8 million or something, you may want a prenup. but you don't. So, um, no, I I I think you

guys talk about it a lot about what you're going to do. Maybe even get some pre-marriage counseling, which sounds a little weird when you're 68, but do it anyway. And uh, yeah, and get on the

same page. Be aligned about what the plan is and what the expectations are, but I'd be combining everything. If you're going to combine your life, combine your life. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Barbara's with us in Wyoming. Hey, Barbara. How are you?

>> I'm good, thank you.

>> Good. How can I help?

>> Um, so I'm retired. I'm 66 years old. I

have a federal pension and social security a little bit more than $60,000.

I I'm on baby step two. The last two debts I have are federal taxes and state

of New York taxes.

I've been working with a national tax preparation organization to to settle these debts. they I've

already paid for um for paying the negotiating on your

behalf for the federal debt is part of

the whole package. But when it comes to state taxes, there's an extra charge. So

my total debt to the state of New York is about $30,000.

And that's with all the penalties and interest and everything.

um they want they're they want to charge me $6,500 to represent them rep to represent me to

the state of New York and they don't want to give me any any information as

to pass success um ratios. I've been trying to f get some information to help with this decision and they've been stonewalling me. So I'm I don't really know what to do at this point. >> You're very wise.

Well, thank you. >> Yeah, you smell a rat, don't you?

>> I do. They've done everything they were supposed to do.

>> Federal is not settled, is it?

>> Uh, no. No, >> not settled.

>> So, they haven't done everything they're supposed to do.

>> Well, they they've actually figured all the taxes. They've done all the taxes.

>> Oh, that was hard. Any tax prep idiot can do that. Well, it it was complicated. I've done >> Okay. So, they figured out all the taxes. That's great. But they they have not negotiated your federal tax liability down at all.

>> No, not yet. Not yet.

>> That's next up. >> Yeah. So, after you do that successfully, I'll think about the other.

Well, except that I just so I left New

York a couple years ago, so there's no more debt stacking up to New York

>> and and and so I just gave them all the

paperwork to do the federal taxes. So, we're not to the point of negotiating with on federal taxes.

>> Okay. Well, I'm just going to wait until the federal taxes. Listen, this I would not do it. They're not going to successfully do this.

The vast majority of the tax settlement companies collect five to $15,000 and don't do anything. They don't have the ability to do anything. On the federal level, there's only one way that your federal income taxes are reduced and it's called an OIC, an offer in compromise, and they have to prove that you are completely broke and impoverished in order to get that through. I've seen a handful of those go through in 30 years, and I've seen thousands attempted.

the federal level. I've never tried it with New York, but, um, they're very, very difficult to do at the federal level. And these companies are on cable TV. Uh, former IRS agents, work for us

and give us $10,000 and we'll settle your debt. Don't bother us unless you've got at least $50,000 in debt. And, you know, and it's a bunch of crap, okay?

Because it just can't do it most of the time. I am very suspicious that this is exactly the same thing.

>> Oh, okay. Well, they seem pretty confident that they can do it, >> but you don't. >> Um, >> because they're stonewalling you. You know why they're stonewalling you and won't give you any answers is because they don't have any.

>> If they told you the actual percentage success that they had, you would laugh at them.

>> Well, they said they saved people a billion dollars, but they don't tell me how many people.

>> I don't know what people and all that.

>> You keep making your own case. We don't even have to answer this call if you just listen to that last sentence you said. >> You you keep making a fabulous case as to why you shouldn't do this. Let me let me share something with you. These agencies have no more pull with the IRS or the New York federal of the New York state government than you do.

>> You I'm just telling you, good luck. Try calling the IRS today. >> I don't know what New York's rules are.

I do know what the federal rules are on settling debt. Okay? Uh, but if you want to find out, just go on ramiesolutions.com for free and click on

our tax prep folks in New York and

contact them and ask them if they can negotiate a $30,000 income tax bill that is delinquent, including penalties in New York, and ask them if they can do it or if they know someone that can and what they would charge. And put that piece of data beside the piece of data that you've got. and you'll probably have a bit of a chuckle. >> My guess is Dave, and I'm not suggesting she do this, but I Barbara, I would relax on the New York thing. The chances of them >> Oh, no. They they'll hunt her down.

>> They may. >> It's New York. They'll hunt her down.

>> I don't know. You have way more confidence. >> She's Well, I mean, she's in Wyoming. She's hard to find, but they'll hunt her down. But yeah, the uh um eventually I I wanted her to deal with it, but I'm not I'm not panicked about it. 100% chance I'm not >> going to pay $6,500 to whoever this mystery company that has saved billions of lives and fed starving children in Africa and all the other bull crap.

Yeah, just bull crap. All right. All right. Up next is Bee in Phoenix. Hey bee, what's up?

>> Hi. Um hi Dave Ramsey. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes. So I just recently bought a house in Phoenix, which I'm really proud of.

>> Good. Um, however, my family's not very happy for me, but that's a different scenario. My um

um my dad is in debt. Uh he's thinking

about declaring a second bankruptcy.

>> Mhm. >> My family is asking me to possibly have

him move in with me because um he's he's

pretty much borderline homeless.

>> And you don't want to. Why didn't he move in with your son?

Oh, he doesn't have uh I'm I'm the only I'm the only um girl. The only >> No, I'm sorry. Who Who was suggesting that he move in with you?

>> Oh, my aunts. >> Oh, well tell them to move. Let him move in with them.

>> Um they're making it my responsibility.

>> No, it's not your responsibility. It's their responsibility. It was their idea.

>> You thought of it, you do it.

Well, sign other people up for your charity work.

>> Yeah. Yeah, the thing is they don't have a house of their own. I um I I stayed I

pretty much >> they have a rental and it's got a floor in the living room.

>> That's where dad sleeps. It's their brother.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. They should take care of their brother instead of trying to get somebody else to do it. You don't want to do this. That's why you called. I'm giving you permission to not do this.

>> Okay. >> Matter of fact, I'm telling you not to do this. Why is Why Why are people mad you bought a house?

Oh, my one of my aunts, she guilt me.

Said she wanted to combine finances with me. And >> And this is the one that wants you to let dad move in.

>> Yes. >> This woman has a lot of opinions about other people's stuff.

>> Yeah. She's a good person to love from a distance. >> Further distance than you've been loving her from. >> I don't know why you give all these ants all this power. >> Yeah. I just go, you know, God, it's like an ant hill. Oh my god. They're

running around everywhere getting bit by ants. It's awful. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Now

you need a little more distance between you and crazy ants and tell the ants to let their your your dad go over there cuz you can't do it right now. It's not up. It doesn't work for you right now.

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>> Today's question comes from Gabriella in California. We didn't hear about the Ramsay show until after we purchased our first home. We went with a 30-year fixed rate mortgage and a payment that's over 25% of our monthly pay. Should we pause

investing and put that extra money on our mortgage so we can refinance to a 15-year fixed mortgage and lower our payment to the recommended amount?

No.

No. I wouldn't go through all that. What I would do is just make sure you're managing your budget really, really carefully and begin to reduce your mortgage in your baby step six. So if you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund in place.

You're working four, five, and six together. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids college, and six is reduce your mortgage until it's paid off.

a 10year or a 15. But that's years from

now after you get it reduced. In the meantime, know that your mortgage is too high. And so, resist this justification.

My budget's tight, so I have to take out a car payment. Don't go back in debt.

Don't don't you know, don't say don't blame your house because you made the decision. If you cannot exist without

taking out debt for other purchases because your house payment's too big, then you need to sell the house and move down. But I don't think that's the case here. I think you can work through this.

I wouldn't have signed you up for it as you know, but I think you can work through this and get there. I think it's possible. >> Yeah. There's no mention in this of other debt, but if there is, obviously you're going to work our baby steps and you're going to reduce expenses in other areas of your life.

And look, if you got to get a better job or work an extra job for a while, uh you have to get you have to make the margin that you've already eaten up. >> Exactly. You got to make sure you cover it. You can't let this bite you at the end of the day.

Hey, Jeremy. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Um, well, I guess that's the whole truth. Sorry, I wouldn't be calling you. Um,

so anyway, uh, may God continue to bless

you. I really appreciate what you're doing for people. Thank you. >> It's very challenging to find, uh, a solid source of help. I have been struggling and dancing with bankruptcy for essentially seven years.

>> Wow. >> Uh, everything everything started I'm not in it. Um I started the process uh

post divorce but the at the advice of the attorney he's like well wait till this happens now wait till this happens and essentially got in a position where I borrow money from family and I was able to run them through the ringer >> uh to go through a chapter uh 13 bankruptcy. Uh try to make this as quick as I can as your your call screener uh requested. Um I'm essentially $120,000

in debt. uh $20,000 out of a as a car

loan at a very high interest rate because of my credit score. Uh there's roughly $4,000 in back taxes from 2021.

Um a $13,000 parent plus loan that I owe money on. Um and the rest is unsecured debt that I've accumulated either from from back uh in

the divorce or over the the years of having three kids.

>> How much of this is family? How much do you owe your family?

I don't owe my family anymore. I thought you said that. >> So, what's the unsecured debt for 90,000 bucks? What is it? Credit cards.

>> Mostly credit cards and some loans. Uh

>> yeah. What do you make trying to get through? >> Uh my current salary now is 141,000.

That's good. Um my my get that my I am

currently being garnished for 100,000 from one credit card company and my spousal support my child support has had expired uh just last year and then the

garishments came in and my spousal support's roughly $1,200. Um, aside from

other bills that, um, I have, uh, I am

before anything, I'm bringing home roughly at 5,000 a month.

>> Um, and I started down back down the track on on bankruptcy again, but again, I'm I'm not a year a year out from having my family being uh pulled into

that, and I don't want to do that to them. >> Preferial treating. I am. Okay. So, the uh, let me ask you, you said $100,000 worth of garnishment. What are you talking about?

Oh, no, no, no. Not $100,000 worth of garnishment. I'm saying $1,000 a month.

>> Oh, $1,000 a month in garnish.

>> Okay. So, you make 140. Oh, >> and they're taking out a,000 for that.

And they're taking out how much for child support? $1,200.

>> Uh, spousal support 12 1280.

>> Okay. So, that's $2,200. Uh, that's that that's less than 30,000 out of the 140.

So, that leaves you 90 not counting taxes. How big is your tax refund?

Oh, I don't get I don't usually get any.

>> Good. Okay. And then so how much do you have coming out for uh 401k?

>> Uh that is I'm maxing out at 6%.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. So here's what I'm going to do. J you're making a lot of money. It's just going back out the door. What do you think you're spending it on?

>> All these payments you got. Oh, this car payment's outrageous. It's 1,500, isn't it?

Uh my my car payment is uh $438 a month,

but it's a very long loan at a 13% interest rate. >> Okay. >> Uh one of the other things that's that's in the mix here is uh I do have I am

one-third owner of my mother's home um

from when she passed. And there's currently no settlement with my brothers and I on uh uh liquidating at least my

my share of >> But you're not paying anything on that?

>> No, I'm not paying anything on that.

>> You just you might get some money out of it someday. Okay. All right. So, here's

what I'm doing. I'm still not finding 140,000. So, I temporarily would stop your 401k. I'm going to put you on a beans and rice budget. You don't eat out anymore. You don't go on vacation anymore. and you're going to make every dollar behave. But because 140 minus

2,200 minus 500 for a car payment, you still got a lot of money that is unexplained here. And I want you to go find it. I'm going to give you the every dollar premium budget which is going to guide you through this whole process.

But more than anything, Jeremy, you got to make every single dollar behave before the month begins and then execute on that with deathly efficiency.

And um you know, you've kind of been it feels like you've kind of been wallowing around in this for so long that you've kind of lost your footing and lost you can't get a handhold. You can't get a foothold. And so I want you to just back up three steps, take a deep breath, and dive into cold water and go, "Okay, fresh start.

Clean eyes, clear eyes, fresh start. Now

look at the math only. Where the flip is

$140,000 going?" because you sure hadn't explained it to me in this. And I want you to go find that for your sake. You don't have to explain it to me, but you need to go find it. Cut up the stupid credit cards. Never touch one of those dad gum things again. They're destroying your life. And then let's list your debts smallest to largest and begin to attack them in that order after you start paying minimum payments. But you can stop the 401k. You can put the parent plus loan on temporary hardship.

Um, and then you could turn around and start attacking these other debts that you are paying monthly on. Get them cleared up and then come back to the parent plus loan and clean it up later.

All of these things are getable. They're very doable. And whatever that one that's got the garnishment on, get that thing get it done. Get it knocked out.

And uh, man, I I would just pump I I'd pop it that way as hard as I could hit it. Um, but the math here says you've got great hope. Your voice does not say that.

Yeah, I I I would recommend that you even get a second job. Target 30 to $50,000. What would it take? How could you make an additional 30 to 50?

Now, you got good income, but I think you need some intensity right now. We've heard enough debtree screams that when we hear these people say, "We worked every second that we could and we made so much money." I think right now you need a jump start of intensity and I would have looked to sell this car. This $20,000 car has got a $400 plus payment to it. Um, you need to go all in, scorched earth, more income, and beans and rice.

That thing needs to be paid off in the next 12 months or you need to sell it. >> Y, >> you need to get get fired up here.

you clean up those credit cards, you clean up that car loan, you start cleaning up a bunch of and all you've got left unsecured. You can start plowing through this stuff like a snowplow, baby. You can start knocking them down just like dominoes. It'll happen. We've seen people do it all the time. Hang on. and we'll sign you up as our gift to the expanded version, the

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Megan is with us in St. Louis. Hey, Megan. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm uh fair to Midland today.

How are you doing? >> About the same other than I'm better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I need help understanding or

framing out how do I tell my mom I am

starting to resent her after some financial choices that she's made?

>> Okay. H how old is your mom?

>> She's 60. >> And how old are you?

>> 32. Okay. So, why does it affect you?

>> So, she has been a successful

uh medical professional in the physical therapy practice world. She had three clinics >> and was a single mom >> and supported me and my sister for the majority of our life.

>> And as an adult, we had mutual respect

for our business decisions.

And 5 years ago, she um sold her clinics

or her interest in them and her home to move in with her long-term fiance.

And she took those proceedings and made his dream happen uh of opening up a diner. And they did that at a somewhat

opportune time where other diners were liquidating their equipment. They were able to purchase that and it's been very successful over the last five years.

However, as the diner got stronger, their relationship got weaker and they

broke off the engagement and she moved out earlier this year.

He then bought out her interest in the diner uh but not directly, not in one lump sum. He is paying in monthly installments and her investment there was about uh half of her profits from the sale of the business in the home. And at this point, it's going to take another 15 years to recoup that. So, it's coming.

>> How does this affect you?

>> Well, we've been in a family dynamic where we go on vacations together. Um, we plan holidays together and she's made promises to me and my sister about being

included on a home purchase and planning a wedding and I'm seem to be engaged and she's promised that she'd like to be committed to that. And now I'm having those feelings that she had the finances to make her fiance's dreams come true, but now um where is that money for our

dreams? Um when when uh you know she's

saying that the money just isn't there.

Yeah. >> So >> you're not going to like me.

>> That's okay. If I need a kick in the pants, go for it. And >> I'm going to tell you right now, I already second whatever his motion is about to be. >> You're you're 32 years old.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> You You sound like an 18-year-old whining that your mommy didn't give you something. Your mom's a single mom, grew something from nothing, screwed up with a bad choice in men again,

and lost her money, and you're whining

about your wedding. You're 32. Go pay for your wedding and love your mother.

>> Sure. Absolutely.

>> Yeah. just I mean I I she she's a

warrior princess. She raised you girls from nothing. She had nothing and she built this thing out of out of the dirt with her hands >> and then she lost it. You should be heartbroken for her. Mad at the twerp with the diner. Not worried about yourself.

>> I have been. I have been. And I I um

>> But you've been mad at him because he got your money's the way you're acting.

Um, yeah, we've we've been on vacations where I've, you know, covered the bill I treated for her 60th birthday trip earlier this year. And yeah, >> um, >> well, if you don't want to do that, that's fine. Or if you can't do that cuz you're saving for your own wedding, that's okay cuz she made these choices.

You don't have to cover her travel bill.

But on the other hand, I I don't think she, you know, she's not obligated to pay for a 32 year old woman's wedding as a single mom who lost her money to a bad

relationship.

>> Yeah, I think that's where I have to identify where those feelings came from.

>> Yeah. I I I think I think if I were you, I would parse out the two things. Number one is what are you required to do for

her? Nothing. She She'll make it. she's

okay and you know, let her go. Let her release her on what she was thinking she

was going to be able to do for you, but now has messed up and is not able to.

And so, um, yeah, any expectation

that she gives you money should turn and

not be there anymore and turn into gratitude for what she's already done for you. >> Yeah. And on the question, the way you worded it, how do I tell my mom I resent

her? that implies that you haven't said anything yet. I think it's okay to communicate two emotions that I heard that you're that you're mad and that you're sad. And I think as an adult, you honor your mother, but you can have an honest conversation. I think it's probably important for you to get that off your chest, but in a way that is respectful and honoring and then move on. But you got to acknowledge that you're mad and you're sad. Uh but >> mainly though, sad for her.

>> Yeah. >> Not mad because I didn't get something.

Well, it's okay for her to say, "I'm mad that she made this promise and she can't keep it, but we got to move on." You know what I mean? Like, it's like 30 seconds. >> That's what I'm saying. But go ahead and deal with it because she's misplacing the way the question is framed.

I'm misplacing my emotions toward all towards my mom and and I just think that that's unhealthy. This is a lady who did well for you. So, if you want on vacation, you set the terms in your mind, you and your sis, and you go, "This is what we're going to do for our mom and we're not going to resent her. We're not going to be gripy about it." and you just move on >> or we don't do it.

>> You don't do it at all. Don't have her on vacation. >> I don't, you know, I'm not able to do this right now because I'm saving for my own wedding. And that that's a perfectly reasonable.

>> Uh she did make her own bed in that sense. >> Yeah.

Yeah, mainly I'm going to be sad for her and deciding how much I'm willing to do to help her. My concern for myself needs to be close to zero in this. You're too old for that. >> That's exactly right. >> That's my point. >> Yeah, I agree with you. Move on.

>> That's Wow. Just move on with it. And um

it's um >> And here's the thing. I I think Dr. John were here. He would say you're probably playing these tapes over and over like 42 times in your head every day. Yeah.

It'll be really good to get the tapes out of your head and just let them let them go somewhere else. Just let them let them go off into the sunset >> and just then just smile and go, "Mom messed up." And you know, she did good for a while and then she messed up and that's just mom. Yeah. You know, that's right.

Well, to your point, you can't be full of gratitude and full of anger at the same time. So, let's just be an adult and let's focus on what we're grateful for. This woman did a lot for you. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Against the odds, by the way. Single mom, three clinics.

doofus. >> She just doesn't pick men. Well, >> fair. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. But yeah.

>> All right. Cynthia is in Toronto. Hey, Cynthia. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing good. I'm honored to talk to you both today. >> You, too. How can I help?

>> Okay, so this is probably a silly question based on um a few callers back, but I'm a new listener and I thought I would still ask. Um so what does Gazelle

intensity look like in Baby Step 2 when it comes to syncing funds? For example, I want to put $150 a month each to my car fund for repairs, a pet fund for like an older dog, and vacation and gift funds. not to actually take a vacation, but say, you know, um if we go on a camping trip or something like that with a big family, it would equal to $600 a month or $7,200 a year and it would be about 1,800 per category. Um so, I just want to know what you guys think about that.

>> Okay.

you know, we're gazelle intense baby step two, working the debt snowball. So, the sinking funds would reflect that.

We're not going on vacation, period. Not spend $7,000 a year on vacations. Not while we're in baby step two. No. Uh, yes, we've got to keep our car repaired.

So, yes, you need to have a monthly account, monthly line item in your budget that can build up. And yes, that can be called a syncing fund for car repairs cuz you do have to do car repairs while you're in there. And uh if you have a dog that you're fairly sure is going to have some issues, then yeah, that's an ongoing budgeting item that's going to happen and you're going to deal with it no matter how intense you are.

Uh you're going to deal with the dog situation. So you need something there.

But that's not $15,000 for a pet in the middle of this. This is, you know, it's a few hundred here or there for some vet bills. And so anything like that. If you know your tires need to be replaced, that's part of your car repair, right?

But car replacement, no, we don't need to worry about car replacement right now. We're getting out of debt. We'll worry about that after we get out of baby step three. And so only the things that are necessary to operate the house bare minimum that fall into sinking.

Those are the only syncing funds we fund at that point.

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Brian's in Wisconsin. Hey, Brian. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you two today? >> Just the same. How can I help?

>> First caller, longtime listener. Uh my

wife and I are on baby step six. We make about 425,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> With the bulk of that coming from my employment. >> I work as a software engineer with consulting work on the side.

>> Mhm. >> We have a high savings rate, just over 200,000 a year. >> Wow. >> But my work my work life balance, it sucks. Non-existent.

>> And it's taken a toll on my mental and

physical health.

>> Um I'm doing this because my wife and I, we plan to have kids soon. no kids right now. >> And I'm also worried that my skills might be obsolete in the next 3 to 5 years due to the advancements in artificial intelligence. >> Mh. >> So my question is um is it possible to sort of be too focused on savings and sort of delayed gratification and should I shift my focus to maintaining my health and a decent work life balance even with the uncertainty of the future job market?

>> Well, you already know that you should do that.

>> Okay. you know that and the way you phrase the question tells me that you know that um you just wanted someone to agree with you and yes I think you're very wise to observe to that. Um so here

here's what's happening. Um you are um

uh we always talk about in every marriage there's typically a nerd and a free spirit. I'm the nerd at my house, the detail person. My wife is the free spirit. My daughter Rachel is the free spirit. Her husband Winston is the nerd.

You're definitely the nerd at your house. And it shows up not only in your career field, but in your approach to this entire phone call even. Okay. So, you're very detailed, very focused person. You like systems, you work systems. It's made you a good living by the way, which is wonderful. Okay. And and but you've gotten completely over the edge into that world and you've lost all the other beautiful parts of life for focusing only on the ones and zeros.

And so, um, you're exactly right. You've you you're very self-aware. You're very wise to say, "I need to back up. I need

some art and some science in my life,

not just science. And art is the romance of my wife, the beauty of some children that need to be on the way this week.

Come on, dude. Get some kids." And you know, it's the best thing ever happened to you. And um and no, by the way, you're not going to be unemployed because of AI. You're going to be the guy that tells AI what to do.

Now, if you're writing lines of code, yeah, you may be not writing lines of code anymore in four or five years. I don't doubt that. I got a feeling AI is going to be writing most of our code, and I'm fine with that. But somebody's got to tell the stupid thing how to do it because it's artificial intelligence, by the way, like artificial sweetener.

And so, we're using, you know, I'm not in your world except that we have a lot of digital products and a lot of digital people here. And a lot of our software engineers are convinced that they need to get above AI and boss it around as

their new job description in the future rather than do what it's trying to do right now. And that that's just my take on it as an entrepreneur. But I don't think you're going to be unemployed because I think you're already considering how you're going to pivot

>> to take advantage of the new technology instead of it taking you out.

>> Yeah. Brian, two quick questions here to focus on this balance issue. Uh, how much of the 425 is your income?

>> Uh, about 370.

>> Okay. Of the 370, you mentioned your job and then I heard consulting. So, break down the income. Your income of the 370,

how much is consulting outside of your 9-to-F5?

>> You know, it's split right down the middle. My nineto-ive is half of it and consulting is the other half. >> Okay. How many hours is the consulting

taking up in a week?

about 20 hours a week on top of my 9 to5

40 hours a week. >> All right. So, I just wanted to tactically start to break that down because Dave's right. I agree with everything he said.

So, now we need to look at, okay, uh we've been in this scarcity mindset, you know, all this savings. So, we need to dial back the 60 hours. So, if you're if you're looking at, you know, I hate to tell anybody to take a step back in income, but the reality is you need to take a step back in hours.

So, you got to adjust that. That's where we go in and we tactically make some changes. But you've been in doing I can just tell by the way you're handling this. You've been doing technology a long time. This is not your first ride.

>> Yeah. Very true. Over 10 years experience. >> Exactly. And so you've navigated changes, disruptions before. This one's a little bit more of a tsunami than a minor disruption, but um but you're going to navigate this and you're going to be fine. Um there are people that are going to be taken out by it. If you think you're going to, you know, be a Dev One coder 5 years from now, you're not. No people, those of you listening, okay? I don't think that's happening.

There's not going to be much of that happening. But, uh there's a lot of stuff we're not going to be doing. But that's okay. There's other things we can do with this technology. And the but you've got to have a brain that works the way your brain works to be able to make AI do what it's supposed to do. Um

and so a brain that works I can't make it do what you can make it do in other words. Um and because my brain is not set up that way and I don't have the knowledge base that you have. Yeah.

>> So I think I think you're going to be in a really good position. >> And that raises another question. Brian is the consulting work the exact same type of work in the nineto-5 or is it slightly different?

>> Same work um different fields. one is um law and the other one is healthcare.

>> I just wonder as a part of this transition as you begin to kind of scale back so that you can start a family, get the get the stress out of your life, I wonder if the consulting is not eventually a business where you work for yourself and you kind of make yourself even more insulated from the threat of AI. Just something to think about. I'm not putting you on the spot to answer that, but there's something to this pivot there. There's a potential I I'll say that there's a potential pivot.

you, you know, add to or full pivot. So, >> are you literally writing code right now?

>> I am working right now. Yes. But >> no, I mean, no, I mean that's not not this second. I mean, is this today your job description is you write lines of code?

>> Nope. We're telling AIS what to do, which is kind of what made me call in like, yeah, who knows what this thing's going to do in five years. >> Yeah. But I mean, today you are that's okay.

So, you're you're a senior de senior engineer. Okay, I got you. All right. Cuz you're killing it income-wise.

I'm so proud of you. Very well done. So, you're very smart. You're a planner.

You're a thinker. Uh you flowchart stuff in your brain. You can't keep from doing it, including your own life. And so, yeah.

So, that's what we're doing. We're saying we're agreeing with you. Yes, I would take a step back, not six steps back. And uh by the way, when you're at home with your family, then be at home.

including television.

>> Yes, sir. >> Just relationship. So, don't don't substitute uh Netflix binge watching for

work and call that family life balance.

It's not.

>> And sometimes we can do that, too. We just move from one of the other. Well, I was at home and she was sitting beside me. No, that doesn't count. Okay. Yeah, but you got caught up on Downtown Abbey.

I don't think that's a plan. Okay.

So, anyway, yeah, I I I think you're a great guy and I think you're going to be a great dad and a great husband and you already knew you were going to do this before you called. Um, and then the the question is, um, you know, you've got a really good nest egg already built.

You've got a the ability to earn a great income. And here's the thing I know about folks. Regardless of the field,

once you have made x number of dollars,

your brain tells you it's possible and

you will naturally gravitate back toward

x number of dollars plus.

>> That's right. >> Once you've broken the threshold, once you balanced on the bicycle the first time and your eyes light up and go, I

can actually do this. then you have a

tendency to be able to do it again rather than a tendency to end up making $25,000 a year at Walmart. >> That's right. >> It's not what you're doing. So, you're going to gravitate towards a half million dollars a year the rest of your life or more. You're just going to have to change how you do it and how you add value to the organizations in the brave

new world that we live in. But you're going to do it. I can tell you're that guy. And I employ a whole bunch of tech folks so kind of know what I'm talking about. I can tell when somebody's got that thing, that swagger that allows them to do it, and I think you do. I think you're going to be great at it. So, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Good question. Very good discussion. Thanks for calling in.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Nazareth is with us in Houston. Hey, Nazareth. How are you?

>> Hey Dave. Hey, Ken. It's a honor to

speak with you guys. >> You too, sir. How can we help?

>> Well, um I wish I was calling to talk

about my own more of my own financial

situation. Um, you know, because I'm doing the baby steps, getting out of debt right now. Um, which is a lot of

what I've heard you call the stupid tax because I've I'm 28 and I've made a lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes over over the years. But, um, I guess one of them

is, um, led me to moving back in with my parents, with my daughter who's now four

years old. And anyways, I've been here and when I first moved back in, like I was still like being pretty irresponsible, like just kind of floating through life. And I've really gotten my act together these past few months. And crazy things have happened to where my mom left my dad about two months ago and

I took over all the bills and all that. But now, um, I'm looking at my father basically owing about $10,000 on property taxes, and if it's not paid

within a month, um, the house is going to go to auction. So, I'm just juggling a lot right now. And it occurred to me, okay, well, maybe I can call the Ramsy Show and I got a hold of you guys.

>> Wow.

So your parents' finances are a mess and you have taken over them with two whole months of experience controlling yours.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. What do you make a year?

>> Uh right now before taxes I'm bringing

in about 3,600 a month. Sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little less, but right around. >> Okay. And what does your mom make?

Uh, well, my mom, uh, she doesn't live

here anymore. She actually moved to another state. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Your dad lives there?

>> Yes, sir. >> Oh, and what does he make?

>> Uh, it varies, but I'd say on a on a

good month, he's making about 3 to 4,000.

>> And why have they not paid their taxes?

It was just um a lot of infidelity

throughout their marriage, you know, on

all levels, including financial, just never being on the same page about things. >> Mhm. So, they don't have any money. I guess you wouldn't have called me. You would have just paid the taxes. Yeah.

Okay. >> Yeah. Well, um my father, he he has about 2,000 in his savings account,

>> give or take. And um

yeah, but my mom definitely uh no

savings like that. And >> Mhm. And you're in touch with her. You have the ability to get in touch with her? >> Yes. Yes, I do. >> Okay. All right. And what's the house worth?

>> Um I'm I'm looking at this number here.

Let's see.

Uh if I see this correctly.

Oh, wow. It says a judged value

215 uh,000.

>> Okay. What's that? What are you reading there?

>> This is the notice of sale.

>> Oh, that has anything to do with reality. What do you think the house is actually worth, dude?

>> Um,

I'm not sure. Probably at probably like around 150.

>> Okay. All right. And what is owed on it?

Uh, nothing. The house has paid off.

>> Oh, okay. All right.

Wow.

That's really sad. Um, so I I would tell

you to go to ramiesolutions.com and click on real estate

a trusted real estate agent. get one of the one of our trusted people and tell them what's going on and see if they have any knowledge of tax

uh property tax in Texas that I don't

have. There's a possibility you could apply for some kind of a thing. Take your dad's 2,000 and maybe, you know, 2,000 a month for the next four months or whatever and clear the thing, right?

There's a possibility they have some kind of a program for that. Um, or

there's a possibility they, you know, they they give you these notices and then it's a while before they actually do it. It's not really 30 days. I don't I want you to get more knowledge than just the threat in the mailbox.

And I don't know I don't I don't have the knowledge to give you >> this. Yes, sir. Well, I did I spent like

about 2 hours on the phone with uh these

tax office people and because they were

on payment plans um in the past, it's

pretty much said that house will go to auction January 6th if it's not paid in full.

>> And like I said, I wish I was calling and you don't have the money and they don't have the money. So, what's our option? There's two options. Um, neither

one are good. Uh, your dad can file a chapter 13 bankruptcy and that will stop the auction.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um, and before I lost the house at auction, I would do that. Uh, but I I really

think that um it might be a good idea

for your dad just to sell the house.

Your dad and mom sell the house now.

Mhm.

get an investor, call one of our Ramsey trusted real estate agents and let's sell the house and pay the tax before before the auction, okay? Because they're going to lose this house and you guys don't have any money to stop them.

>> And and so, you know, you can go into chapter 13 bankruptcy, but all we're doing there is kicking the can down the road because your parents are going to screw that up.

>> I'm curious, how many years of the property taxes what's a year's worth of property taxes on this house? Do you know? Um well it's it varies but I think

it goes all the way back to 2020 about 5 years worth.

>> Right. So here here's the this is kind of an outside the ball uh outside the box idea here. But does your dad between all the stuff they have? Do they have $6,000 worth of stuff that you can sell quickly plus his two that gets you or wait. We got to get uh we got to get eight more. Sorry my math was bad for a second. 8,000. Does he have $8,000 worth of stuff?

Uh yeah, I think so. And I I I have a

>> That's the quickest turnaround on this thing. I mean, to be honest with you, if he really has $8,000 worth of stuff, and if I was >> watch his car, >> I would do that.

>> Uh no, not really through his cars, but he's got a lot of um cuz he's a a

welder. He's um Yeah, he just builds fences, so he has a lot of material,

steel here. And um >> yeah, get it sold. It's just kind Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Get us get get it sold and get the money and go pay the tax. >> That's it. >> And but your dad's going to have to get off his dad gum butt.

>> Mhm. >> Or he's going to lose his house. And it's not fair that you have to do this for him. This is supposed to be a grown man.

>> I mean, this guy's what, 60 years old?

>> Yes, sir. 62. >> Yeah. So, maybe he ought to act like it.

Hello. So, yeah. I I don't really want you fixing this for him, but I I if he's got the assets, if he got a bunch of junk around there, he can take salvage or whatever and sell it and scratch up 10 grand to go with his two or eight grand to go with his two grand, get this thing paid. That's the answer.

Um other than that, yeah, he can file bankruptcy, but it's not going to work cuz it's going to crash. He's not unless he gets if he catches it up, that's his only shot at making this work.

This time of year I get a little confused. about the terms.

It's Cyber Monday week.

How do you have a Monday week?

I'm so confused. >> How do Black Friday sales last for 10 days? This is still happening.

>> Yeah, Fridays are now 10 days and Mondays are now weeks. Okay. Well, but we're gonna join the parade. So, the deals are in full swing at Ramsey. We got hard coverver books, audio books, assessments, all with prices as low as $6.99.

Don't wait. These deals end this coming Sunday 127. Go to ramseyolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube, our podcast, click the link in the description. >> I need to make a confession, Dave. Our audience knows this. When you're not here and I read these things, I get a little upset. I wonder if you've approved these things because these are really good deals. I'm not sure I'm get making much on these books and assessments. Did you approve of these deals?

>> I had nothing to do with these deals, actually. But I >> I always do, don't I? I'm like, man, Dave is killing me on these books of mine are so cheap. >> Yeah. Prices as low as $6.99. That's hard coverver books, no less. Must be an overstock on something. That's all I'm saying. >> There it is, folks. I confessed it. I confronted it. We don't know how these deals got there. >> They're good deals, that's for sure.

Brian's in Dallas. Hey, Brian. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. How's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey Dave, I'm closing on a property here

soon in the next couple weeks and uh

wanted to get your wisdom on a few things. So, first of all, uh thanks for taking my call and uh just some context

for what I who I am. I'm 27 uh making

about $100,000 a year. and um the

property that we're closing on, we have the means to put down for the down payment, which is great. Um but as I was

crunching the numbers and looking at our savings, we were thinking about possibly taking out a 401k loan or withdrawal to

help with the down payment. Now, I know I've watched some of your videos and you you've explained not to do that and and things like that. So, just calling to get your input and get wisdom on creative ways we can put for the down payment. >> You already have the down payment. Leave your 401k alone.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Keep your hands off of it.

>> Okay. >> If you can't afford the house, then tell them and see if you can get out of the house deal. But, um, don't mess with stinking 401k like you said. That's >> uh for for obvious reasons. uh the your wealth is going to come from paying your house off and from building your 401k, not from destroying it. And borrowing on your 401k is never a good idea ever.

There's no circumstance. And withdrawing on a 401k, of course, you're going to get taxes and penalties and everything else. And so, and you're not even able to withdraw a 401k while you still work there. So, um no, I would not ever use

my retirement money to buy a house ever.

Um no, wouldn't do it. And I wouldn't do it to increase your down payment when you already have your down payment. Ryan is in Indianapolis. Hey Ryan, how are you? >> Good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh yeah, so my dad passed away a few

months ago. And uh he he's set my mom up

pretty well. Uh he's a lifetime farmer.

U built a pretty good net worth. Um very

conservative.

And um by the time he he has a trust set

up and by the time that all the ground and equipment um there's still room for about $1.5 million of cash that uh we

could put towards the trust and uh my

mom is considering disclaiming uh that

cash to go ahead and and give it to uh myself and my two brothers. And um I'm a

little concerned uh about taking taking on that much cash. Um

my my brothers went through a divorce uh in his lifetime and we want to do what

we can to protect uh what my dad's built his whole life and I'm I I want to pay

off my house and that's what my mom uh would like to see, you know, me do with the cash that she'd give me. And my suggestion was to put it in the trust, leave it there, and I take a loan uh

from the trust instead and kind of pay

back the loan instead or pay back the trust instead of the bank um to keep it

from becoming a marital asset right off

the bat. >> So the million and a half would be yours. >> Uh well, it'd be split between uh myself and my two brothers and it would Oh, >> so you would get a half a million dollars. >> Yes. So, you don't trust your wife with a half a million dollars?

>> Uh, it's not that I don't trust trust her, but um you know, we've seen what's

what money can do to to families.

>> Half million dollars is not that much money.

>> It's it's not. But, uh it can be spent

very quickly. >> Wait a sec. Wait, wait, wait. You paid off your house. How you going to spend it?

Well, well, I'm saying that, you know,

if if my um if I pay off my house, I've got more income now coming in in from my um

>> So, be on a budget with your wife.

>> That's >> what's what's wrong with your marriage, Ryan? Uh it's very hard to control financially. Um I if if we're not on a

very strict budget and and an allowance essentially um it disappears.

>> But wouldn't paying off your house make it even more stable?

>> No. More money to disappear at this point. >> Yeah. But >> yeah, because he can't get along with his wife, >> right? So >> how long have you been married?

>> Uh six years.

Okay.

All right. I would not accept the money until you get your marriage healed.

>> Your marriage is a mess.

>> That's That's what you know I

>> No, I don't want to create some kind of a faux

backflip double limited partnership trust crap so you won't deal with your wife. No, I don't want to do that. you need to deal with your wife and then get your marriage and your life straightened out and then we'll talk about properly handling wealth. But there's no there there is no legal mechanism that makes people that aren't behaving behave.

>> It it it would >> you're dreaming, Ryan.

>> You can't have your cake and eat it, too. You're going to have to deal with your home. Your home is a wreck. When

you deal with your home, then it's a safe place to bring a lousy half million dollars into. But your home isn't safe

for a half million dollars right now. So don't put a half million dollars in it in any shape or form until you get your

marriage worked on. And quit trying to dream up some side angle crap to not

have to deal with what's right in front of your dad gum nose. You've got to deal

with this. And if you don't, your marriage is going to end and there's no

all this crap is going to get drugged into a divorce court no matter how what you do. And you know, you're all your little schemes and crap aren't going to work. So, you can't control this. You've

got to heal it. There's a difference.

Now, you're going to do what you're going to do, but I would not accept the half million until you finished marriage counseling that was successful in creating a healed, grown-up relationship with my wife. You don't trust your wife.

>> That's a bad place to live, dude.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's six years and and and

to not have any kind of financial stability and trust. You could feel it all over him. So, Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I

I I like that advice. >> Yeah. You you and your mom and your brother are trying to connive something up here against your wife. This is a bad medicine. Bad juju, dude.

>> Really bad. Well, you know, he mentioned his brother's divorce, so he's feeling like snake bit, too.

>> Yeah. >> Because of his marriage. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no kidding.

>> Self-fulfilled prophecy if you're not careful. >> Yeah. But no, mama needs just, you know, the one needs a trust is your mother, maybe, but not you. Um, no, you don't

you don't need that money anywhere near your house right now because um because

you've got other issues that are much more important, much higher priority

than a lousy half million dollars or paying off your house.

Heat. Heat.

If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to work the Ramsey plan is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. It's the plan built right in. You track your progress. You get a personalized recommendation and coaching for your situation. It'll help you free up more money, work the plan even faster, getting out of debt, building wealth.

It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step, and holding you accountable.

We'll tell you the truth cuz we love you. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. on the Zoom call. Coming up

now is going to be Becky and Brian. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Good day. >> Wonderful to have you guys. Where do you live?

>> Madison, Wisconsin.

>> Okay. Well, merry Christmas. I see the Christmas tree in the background. You guys got it rocking. Good work.

>> How how can we help you guys today?

>> Thanks for taking our call. Yeah, >> I'll let my wife take the question here.

>> Um, hi Dave. So, I own a small business, a medical aesthetics practice here in our hometown. Um, I'm a nurse practitioner and I've built um my business debtree. Um, I have no debt here at the business and I make pretty heavily purchases every month um that I just pay off with my debit card, you know, 10,000, sometimes upwards of $20,000 for products. Um, and so my

question is in regards to getting a business credit card and um, the

downfall of what that would be. Um, I think we kind of live in the Ramsay mindset. We're debtree. I only purchase things if I have the funds to purchase them. Um, so that is um, was my question

like what what the harm would be in getting a business credit card for points. Well, if you um

only purchase things if you have the money, then a debit card will work, right? >> Correct. >> Okay. And so your only motivation is points.

>> Well, yeah. I mean, yes. Well, I kind of I was thinking of if I have to purchase it anyway, should I be trying to get something in return because I have to to

then have additional funds?

>> Yeah. And so, is your business working?

Are you making money? Are you successful?

>> I am. >> Good. Good for you. Congratulations.

>> Well, that's where you make your money in running your business well and in being who you are and providing the service that you provide. That's where all your profit comes from. That's where your prosperity will come from is in being you. Uh I can tell you're probably really good at this. It just you can see it kind of in the camera right now. And um so I so you are the secret sauce, not

some side hustle gathering up points.

And so I've concentrated at Ramsey on helping people with their money or helping people with their leadership or the different things that we do here, not in trying to gather up something on the side. I just go do what we do with excellence. And that's where all of our prosperity has come. And uh because the points are a scam, uh 78% of them are

never redeemed.

That's crazy. Eight out of 10. And um

and and by the way, if you spend $100,000 on this and you get 1%, that's

$1,000.

So that there's no formula on planet

Earth that says spending $100,000 to get a,000 is a formula for wealth building.

That's that's that's a really really really silly trade. your your time and

your brain calories are worth a lot more than you'll be spending chasing a couple of points here or there that are $500 or $1,000 here or there that you make back.

Uh you can make that in 20 seconds doing what you do if you concentrate on that instead of the other things. But instead, they got you concentrating on their business model, which is to get you possibly into debt because one month things are a little tight, then you don't pay it off and then there you are.

That never happens with a debit card though. So, we don't have any credit cards at Ramsey and we teach entree leaders small we coach about 10,000 small businesses uh all over America to use debit cards and just don't bother with the points. Um because I'm that the

that that momentary flex where you change your brain from doing what it does so well to going over here and trying to beat up City Bank for 1%. It

the the the tradeoff is not worth it.

your your brain is worth more working on things that matter. Ken, >> yeah. Uh, one of my vices, you two, I'm

confessing this is uh late night ice cream. Uh, it's a real problem. And, uh, I'm at the stage in life where late night ice cream comes with a consequence. So, you know what I do to avoid late night ice cream? You guys want to take a guess?

>> Don't eat it. >> I don't have ice cream in my house.

>> There's no ice cream in the house now. I know. I know. What kind of a father are you? >> The kids can go get it. There's an ice cream shop in my neighborhood. But, you know, it's a simple little idea, but you get the point. And Dave's right. There is It's not just the one month it gets a

little tight and we got a little security blanket. It's also a temptation.

And if it's in the freezer, there's a good chance I'm gonna walk by and grab it and get a bowl of it. And so, you just got to be very careful with this.

Is psychology. There is psychology and money and Dave has figured it out. What what I don't think people realize sometimes is how much psychology are in the baby steps because he sat and he listened to people for years and years and years and developed something that is not just about momentum but it's also about the psychology of money and I think that we we can't forget that the points seem to be a real benefit but what it what it what it's going to do is potentially trap you just like those late night calories for me. You got my awesome you're an incredible couple.

You guys said that so much more nicely than we thought you were going to. >> Well, thank you for coming on. And hey, that was that was pretty risky. You guys took a big risk jumping on here.

So, thank you for doing that. And you know, the joke we always use is we've never met a millionaire said, "I made all my money with my points." And so, that that's what it all comes down to. So, hey, thanks for joining us. That's uh Becky and Brian.

Good job, you guys. All right. Fun. So, we've integrated a few of these Zoom calls here or there because so many of you watch on YouTube and on video on Spotify and other some of our other platforms are now carrying video as well.

So, we want to make sure we're kind of including all that in there. So, something new. I've done talk radio for 35 years and now I get to do Zoom calls. >> Well, I I will tell you selfishly, I don't know if you feel this way, but I really enjoy I've been able to do two or three of these now and I enjoy it because we can see emotion.

We can see things that sometimes we can't always hear.

But, uh, if you >> I have to be careful, though. I think I'm nicer on the Zoom calls.

>> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I think I need to I think I need to not I don't need to fall for that.

>> Something about looking at their pretty cute little faces, and I don't want to destroy them. >> Well, that boy, that is an interesting take right there. Will you be tough, Dave, looking right at somebody?

>> I gave him the right answer, but I wasn't I wasn't snarky. >> No, you were very >> I wasn't mean. >> You were very Christmassy >> sometime. I was very Christmassy. Yeah.

Santa Dave is on the video call.

>> By the way, quick question. >> I'm going to get you some ice cream, Ken Coleman, at the break. >> By the way, that was the truth. >> That is a crazy thing right there.

>> It's a truth. Well, everybody's got their advice. Whatever your food vice is, don't >> you know, one of our one of our senior leaders here eats a thing of grers every night. You know who I'm talking about.

>> I do. >> He has his whole ice his he has one freezer full Yeah. of grers and he eats it one little thing every night. >> If I could pull it off, I would.

>> It affects the waistline which then affects the pickle ball game. No question. Uh I had a question for you.

You've been watching and analyzing coaching people for a long time. He's no longer on the call, but I thought Brian

>> uh I thought he he was he was in he was on our side of things.

>> Oh, no kidding. >> It was pretty obvious. >> She was totally set up, but she knew she was set up. >> She did. But he just sat right back and just >> he just let let us handle it. Yeah. He had already told her what we were going to say. And she knew she did.

>> That was not a >> He's a smart guy, though. That's a pro move. >> That That was Dave. That was a flex.

Yeah. Just step back and step back and let someone else >> I saw the same thing you did. I was like, "Look at this guy. He's back there. No sweat." >> I'm going to let my wife ask this question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. She has the question. >> I think Brian got the answer he wanted.

Good for him.

But to speak to that Dave on the on the real the temptation for small businesses how realistic what you said could happen. >> These days we're hearing as much as 60% of small businesses have credit card debt related to the business. >> Yeah. >> Starting and or operating the business.

>> Yeah. >> That ma is mathematical suicide. You know that we know that and I don't know if the stats true but it's been around so long everybody believes it. 80% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years. It's an SBA stat, >> right? >> Okay. And that's probably true, but it also includes businesses that never really started hardly. But of those, we

do know, and I do think this is true, the number one problem is cash flow.

Cash flow means they don't have any money. It means because they have debt payments and they don't pay their taxes and those are the things destroy cash flow and that runs you out of business.

So, we do know that's true. So, stay away from that crap and run your business. That's the idea.

Heat. Heat.

Our

scripture of the day, 1 Peter 4:10. Each

of you should use whatever gift you have

received to serve others as faithful

stewards of God's grace in its various forms. H. Jackson Brown said, "Talent

without discipline is like an octopus on roller skates. Plenty of movement, but you never know if it's going to be forward, backward, or sideways." >> That's some real depth right there.

Every hiring manager should read that quote.

>> That's the truth. Uh, you know, H. Jackson Brown did a book um 30 years ago

called Life's Little Instruction book.

>> Yes. >> And that's what this comes from, I'm sure. And, uh, it was a notes to his

son, >> oneliners like this to his son, and it became a huge bestseller. And, uh, I met

him back in those days. I was just starting. Uh, the first book had just come out. >> I didn't know that. I'm very jealous.

>> He's from Nashville. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. Yeah. He's from here. Yeah.

>> Octopus on roller skates.

>> That's pretty cool. It's good. Good movement. Yeah. Good.

>> Morgan is with us in Tampa, Florida.

Hey, Morgan. How are you?

>> I'm doing better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? >> Just the same. How can we help?

>> Um, I was hoping to get some insight on whether my husband and I can upgrade our hunk of junk of a car even though we're temporarily down to one income. So, I can fill in some details for you.

>> Do you have the cash to do it?

>> Yes. So, we're in baby step four, five, and sit. Mhm. >> Um, we've got about $60,000 in cash.

That includes 20,000 for the emergency fund and 10 for a business that I'm hoping to get off the ground um after I sit for and hopefully pass the bar in Florida. >> Good. Good for you. >> So, we're we were looking to spend somewhere between 10 and 20. Hopefully a little closer to 20, but I just feel a little weird about kind of raiding the war chest while we're kind of a little bit in sto or like in a little bit of a crisis right now. Uh I mean can you

cover your bills with the one income?

>> Yes. So we can we >> So you're not in a you're in not in a crisis. You're just not in a time of prosperity.

>> Yeah. I guess that's more accurate. It just feels a little weird to kind of read the the war chest. >> Well, it's not really a war chest. The war chest is labeled emergency fund.

It's 20. The war chest is labeled 10 for starting a business. And you're not touching either one of those.

>> Okay. >> So I think you're using the wrong term.

>> Yeah. And you got 30. And that means you got 30 more. And you know what? Go for it. >> You got excess savings. >> Get a $10,000 car and then when things get a little bit more stable, you can always sell that. >> What's the hunk of junk worth if you sold it? >> I don't think it's really worth much. I think the blue book on it is like $2500.

>> Okay. So 2500 minor $2500 and you put

125 with it and you get a $15,000 car.

>> Okay. It sounds more straightforward. I guess just feels like a very emotional decision. Well, >> well, it it is because you draw security from >> the savings and that's why you call it a war chest. >> Mhm. >> You get security from looking at those numbers >> more than you do from looking at that hunk of junk upgraded.

>> That's probably true. It's just it's cost us like $2,500 this year and now we need another $2,500 repair. So, >> nah, don't spend $2,500 on $2,500 car.

Don't do that. >> No. >> Okay. That makes it an easy decision.

>> Yeah, just sell it as is and let's move up. You don't have to move. You don't have to move up all the We're not going and buying a $65,000 car hoping you pass the bar. That's not what we're talking about. Okay. We're doing I mean, this is very very reasonable what you've described and you're paying cash and you're probably not going to drive the car that you buy but about a year.

>> Okay. >> Because it sounds like you're going to start your own practice once you pass, right? >> What I hope. Yeah. I'm practiced in I'm licensed in Pennsylvania, but we recently moved. So sitting for the Pennsylvania or sitting for the Florida bar hopefully will pass.

>> So it's not reciprocal.

>> No, not in Florida. Florida's very protective of their attorney, unfortunately. >> Very interesting. Okay. All right. And so what? So you have an existing practice back in Pennsylvania.

>> So I left my job with the federal government. I work in a really niche area of law in veterans benefit. Mhm.

>> Um, so right now I just kind of want to focus on the bar and then hopefully >> What are you going What type of practice are you opening? >> I want to keep it the same. So veterans benefits um mostly disability veterans law is what I'm hoping to do. I did that for about three years. >> Okay. >> Back in in PA.

>> That's interesting. Okay, cool. Good for you. >> What's the uh >> The good news is you're probably going to ramp it up pretty quick. That's why I was asking all the question. >> That's exactly what I was about to ask.

Realistically, how long if you pass the bar before you're up and running and making money?

>> I mean, so the outlook on that can be anywhere cases can take anywhere between like seven months to a year. And that's kind of what the 10 grand is for. That can kind of cover my base operating expenses for a year. So, I won't have an office or anything like that. So, it'll cover like the legal research and all those kind of ancillary costs. >> But again, you guys are already covered all your basics with your other income.

>> Yes. I think it's really just wanted that stamp of approval. I feel a little bit of peace about it. >> Yeah, I appreciate it.

I appreciate talking. Yeah, but it but I guess our other point, the reason we're asking all that questions is is that the the practice getting up and running is yet further insurance in addition to the savings numbers that this is a wise decision. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> That's why we're asking all the questions.

and and ask yourself this. What are the chances this $2,500 hoopty blows up in the next 30 days?" I'd say pretty high.

>> It's already Yeah, she's already at which point you got to get a car.

>> Yeah. So, let's Yeah, let's do it. Remington is in Memphis. Hey, Remington.

>> Remington. >> Hey, Dave. How are you? >> Great. How how can we help?

>> Oh, it's a uh kind of planned uh future

stuff. Um we're looking at building a house next to my parents and sister and

then also my brother. So, having a little family compound area. Um trying to figure out if you recommend doing like a only doing cash flow for

the money or 15-year mortgage. uh we don't have the you know the funds to cash flow right now. Um but then we also

have an offer from my dad to help cash flow upfront and then you know to avoid

red tape from the bank um and then

switch over to a mortgage after >> that one I would stay away from. I would just get a construction loan and build it and put it on a 15-year fixed >> to the degree that you can't cash flow it yourself. And of course, you got to make sure this is on a separate plot. If you build a home on someone else's land,

>> you're screwed. >> It's ours. Yeah, he Yeah, it's our land.

So, he recently >> It's not our land. >> Us. >> Well, my wife and I's >> Oh, you have a They They've parcled it out. It has a property line and everything inside that property line is only owned by you, not your dad.

>> Correct. He recently split it into three

uh me and >> Okay. uh two of my siblings. So, we own it all now. Um >> and we're looking at how >> and if something happened to you and your wife were widowed and she wanted to sell it, >> she can do that, >> right? >> Okay.

She might not want to live there. >> Okay. >> You might not want to live there 10 years from now.

>> Everybody got that emotionally figured out?

>> Yeah. I mean, we we we live nearby right now, so we're we're able to set those boundaries and stuff now. So, >> okay. Um, you got a separate parcel, but that doesn't mean that somebody's not Well, dad said we could never sell it.

He gave it to us, but said with the stipulation, we could never sell it. And no, then you're screwed. We don't want to get I don't want to get I do not want to get trapped.

Some blessings are a trap. And those are called curses. So, no, don't be just make sure that there's lots of movement here. lots of lots of places and things that can be done if our lives change and shift and nobody's going to be permanently pissed off for the next 42 years over one little piece of dirt and that's what happens. So be real careful with that part and you pay your own way without your dad and then you'll be in good shape. So good question.

>> I just have to believe though push back on this one that family compounds come with the expectations that we're all there for. Yeah, that's

the problem. >> I That's what I would It's It's very very difficult to have,

>> you know, reasonable lives. >> And then who wants to buy a house? You You're in the real estate world. You've been Who wants to buy one house, a one-off in a family compound?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a problem.

It's a problem. Yeah.

>> People don't think these things through.

Yeah. >> That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 97. It’s Time To Stop Surviving And Start Winning With Money | October 24, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:02:00 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

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[Music]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're here to take your call.88255225.

Joy kicks us off in Nashville right down the road. What's going on Joy?

>> Hi. Yes. Um I'm out here in Nashville.

My name is Joy and I'm going through a complete reset in my early 30s. I have three children and I'm trying to figure out how to restart financially after having owned a multi-million dollar company and going through a divorce. So, I think that that's the hardest thing that I'm working through right now.

>> Wow. Yeah, that's enough hard things. I think we're good on that. So, where does this stand? Is the divorce finalized?

>> No, it started back in June. I had to leave because um abuse and control.

>> So, I left for a week and it kind of started to snowball worse. And this is a company that we built together. And then he just that kind of started taking over everything and then started saying that I embezzled from him and that's why he has to do it. >> So are there lawyers involved now?

What's going on? >> There are there are lawyers involved. Um he has two and I have one. We don't even hit mediation till February and right now I just got assigned very very little pay from him until we can kind of everything can go out. But um like I said I I went from a lot of money down to just nothing. like I've had to rebuild my own. I don't even have anything. Um I had to just work my way

into what I have and I recently just got my first rental. I've always bought homes. Um so it's just like I'm in the middle of a serious wow, what do I do?

But I'm trying my best because I also homeschool my children. >> So the the court didn't issue you to have nothing. Has he just essentially locked you out of all of the money? Is that what's taking place?

>> That's correct. >> Okay. >> And the attorneys have done nothing to reverse any of this? there hasn't we haven't gotten to mediation and um we have 59 counts of contempt of court on his side. Um but it's just been a slow process because the goal is really custody with the children at this point and right now I'm primary and he gets a couple days a week. But I I think right now I'm being awarded um $2,500 a month

for just custody issues until we can even figure that out, which is very little to live on. >> Sure. What were you used to living on?

>> 20,000 >> a month. Okay. >> Yes. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. >> And you're still both a part of this company that's still running?

>> My name is 50% on it. It's an LLC. It's a manufacturing company. Okay.

>> Um, yes, correct. And I'm not working it

now. I got locked out. I can't even get unemployment because he won't get me.

>> What do you mean you got locked out?

>> I I don't understand how that's possible. But he is claiming that I embezzled and he is able to take control

of the company because I left the home because of the alleged abuse and I took off for a week and it just like I said >> so no more direct deposit paychecks nothing. >> Correct. Nothing. He started taking it into his account.

>> Who is saying that though? Is it just him or are your lawyers agreeing? Like who is >> who is corroborating this? Is this just his story and he's doing it and you're not allowed in or are lawyers saying yes?

>> Okay. So, can you go to your lawyer and say, "Hey, I'm 50% of this company.

>> am being locked out." What's What happens when you do that?

>> We have the paperwork. We've tried to show it in court, but court keeps saying, "We're going to try this in the divorce hearing. We're going to try this in the divorce." >> Okay. When is the divorce hearing?

>> We don't even have one set because of mediation. He they want us to get to mediation for >> which is in fe February.

Correct. >> So, how are you supposed to float yourself if he's locked you out of your own paycheck and is giving you two grand a month? >> I am an entrepreneur by heart. So, I started doing piano lessons, doing baked goods.

>> That's great. But you My point is you shouldn't >> That's good that you're doing that. But I want you to push on this really hard because February is a long way from now and that's not even like you said, that's not even the hearing. That's just for mediation to begin, right?

>> Yeah. Your attorney sucks.

>> I I don't know what to say about about any of that. I've really been pushing for this, but they keep saying my priority obviously is to have the kids.

And >> it is, but it shouldn't be at the you haven't done anything wrong. So, it shouldn't be at the detriment of uh you

not earning your income. I mean, obviously, if you're not working anymore, you're no longer earning an income. But figuring out how that works with you being part owner of the company is the part that because why can't you lock him out is all I'm saying. Like what if you're 50/50, you have just as much power as he has. So why is he holding do you not have keys to the company? Do you not have like I I just am trying to understand >> I understand >> how that balance of power happened.

>> So on on paper I'm 50% legal owner of

it. Um but you have to go through a court process like anybody can accuse you of anything. So, he was able to lock me out of the building, took all the money out of the account, um, and he was just able to just block me from any system that I ever created. We get to court, the court says, "Well, we can try this in divorce.

Our focus is on the children. There's really nothing that we can do until y'all get to divorce court." And we've gone to the judge multiple times on this, and the judge is saying the exact same thing. You're just going to have to pay her this in the meantime. And I wish I could understand that more, but that's what I keep getting told.

>> Understood. Okay. Um, so help.

we help you today? >> Well, I guess my question is, um, I'm going to have to try to find a path of not being able to work with him. That's just not possible at this moment. Um, and in the future, it's not going to be possible. I guess

I don't know how to move forward. Um

because I don't even know if I ask for a

portion of the company monthly. I know he's not going to be able to pay for it, pay me outright for the 50%.

>> Yeah. It'll likely be some kind of structured payout where over time and get profits of the company until you're paid up to 50% of the value that you guys all decide on with the lawyers and whoever else is involved.

>> But for now, we just need a plan to like survive right now. So you are in a rental, you have the kids a majority of the time. and you have $2,500 coming in from him plus whatever you can make on the side. >> Yes. So, it ends up being right around $5,000, which I've been able to do, but

it's still I'm just I'm just struggling.

I'm struggling with that. >> You have your own bank accounts now.

You've separated from him completely on that side. >> I've had to do all complete separation.

He's not even allowed to contact me.

>> And how much are you paying for the rental out of the 5,000?

>> 1750, which is really high for me.

>> Uhhuh. Um, and then, um, when you do

your budget, is there any margin whatsoever?

>> No. Okay. >> There's no margin. >> Do you have any debt that you're on the hook for that you feel like, hey, this is what's eating my lunch right now? Or is it simply the fact that, you know, I'm on a shoestring budget and this just really sucks right now? What's the thing that's like eating your lunch right now?

>> I have um no debt outside of the

business. The court has told him he has to cover everything. Um, but between the mortgage, homeschooling my children, um, like my Tahoe is a 21 Tahoe, it's paid for, but I'm driving, um, 30 minutes

four times a week to meet up with him back and forth. That gas is so expensive. >> Can you sell the house that you're not living in? >> That's the problem. He He has the house, too. I left. That's the problem with divorce. >> But is your name on it?

>> It is. >> Okay. So, you're going to have to force the sale of the house as part of this divorce. And that's >> the judge >> something for your attorney to fight for. >> Yes. And the judge has told him he needs to do it. Well, he is delaying the process. And they can delay the process in a $2 million house.

>> Sure. >> And um that's not I'm not even going to be able to look at that until probably a year year down the road that it >> Right. Right. Right. That's going to be a ways down the line. I'm not convinced that your lawyer is great. I feel like you're at the disadvantage when you shouldn't be. this is the the guy that was abusive and this is the guy that you had to flee from. So, find you an an attorney that understands that you're the one with the upper hand, not him.

Um, and that's the best advice I can give you. Luckily, nothing's on fire financially. You're just going to have to keep going until the divorce proceedings. >> Cover your four walls. And if you can't pay the mortgage on the house he's living in, tough cookies.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income. So, the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

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[Music]

John is with us up next in Bowling Green. What's going on, John?

>> Hey guys, how are you?

>> Great. How can we help today?

>> Okay, so we've been in u the baby steps

for two years.

We started out with $268,000 in debt. Half of that be our fe we bought several years ago um before we

started listening to y'all. Um we've been trying to sell it, but over the last three years, I've had nine surgeries and been been pretty sick.

>> Wow. >> Um this morning, >> this morning my neighbor passed away. I finally got a clean bill of health. I'm just leaving the the doctor

and my wife and I want to travel a little bit. So my question is, is it okay to be the slowest or the next of the slowest gazelle for the next two years while we finish up paying off so we can travel and enjoy life? Uh last

three years been hell.

>> Yeah, you've been through it, man. Hey, can you speak directly into your phone? We're having a hard time hearing you.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Is that better? Not much, but we'll we'll try our best. Okay. So, you've had a lot of life happen. Nine surgeries, three years, big pile of debt. Where does the debt stand today?

What's the total balance of the consumer debt? >> The total balance of the consumer debt is $218,460.

>> Okay. So, you knocked out 50K in two years. Is that right?

>> Uh, a little over 50K. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, based on that math, you said there's two years to go. How is the math tracking on that?

or three years ago >> according I'm just going by what's uh on

my uh uh every dollar app now all of the

debt will be uh it'll be three years but

we're hoping that half of the debt right now is the RV and we're hoping to sell that >> that's based on selling the RV >> yes >> okay that makes more sense >> years to sell the RV >> and why isn't it selling just people aren't in the market for a RV at that price.

>> Yeah, it's a it's a you know middle of

the market diesel pusher. It's not highend. It's not low end. >> What's it what do you have it listed for?

>> Well, they have it listed for $125,000

and it looks private sale at $160.

>> So that's what we owe on is 120. So

we're trying to just get out from under it. >> And it's been on the market for a year.

How long? >> Uh, yeah. >> Something's wrong.

>> Have you Is this like a consignment where someone else is selling it for you or are you just doing this on your own?

>> No, we're doing it on our own through uh

u online ads and the RV trader and

>> Okay. >> All that kind of stuff, >> man. So, if you do that, that'll clear, you know, half your debt is what you're saying. >> Yeah, that'll Yeah, that'll clear 120,000 of that debt. That makes more sense.

>> Okay. So, you're want to know if you could slow down and travel and enjoy life a bit more and it's because of the the health scares. The neighbor passes away and you're sort of in this like yolo. Life is short. Is this worth it for 3 years knowing we don't know how much time we have left on this earth?

>> Right. >> How old are you and your wife?

>> I'm 62. My wife is 61.

>> Okay. And how's your wife's health?

>> She's great health.

Um, I I hear what you're saying. I I

understand the logic of what you're wanting to do. Um, I'm just worried that

you're going to continue to kick this can down the road and possibly add more debt to it. It's very hard to

uh start the lifestyle you're wanting to start and then stop it suddenly to clean up this mess, right? you're wanting to travel the world, have a great time, have a, you know, that that peaceful, easy feeling, but that's going to be tough to do with this debt laying around. I'd rather you take some time and really pay this off and so that when you do go travel, you really are enjoying it. There's not this kind of monster in the closet waiting for you when you get home.

And you said yourself, you have a clean bill of health.

or something else bad is going to happen or d the truth is okay, you do have a

clean bill of health. The truth today is that your wife is healthy and the truth today is that you've got a pile of debt sitting here that you've you've had a lifetime to clean up and now you're realizing it, oh man, I I do need to clean this up. So, I would take that I would take that hint and not spend another day like this. I would I would go headstrong into it.

>> Okay. >> At the end of the day, >> we don't want to we don't want to travel the world. We just want to like go for

two or three day overnights and take our RV. >> What's that going to cost?

>> What's it going to cost? It's It's about $200 a weekend. Oh, I mean it's not a

lot of money truly. Um >> I mean that's like fun money for a lot of people. So if you wanted to take a $200 weekend trip, that's fine. But I think the idea of well, we'll do it another weekend, another weekend, and we'll get a little lack of days over here.

Yeah. I think it's just a slippery slope. It's hard to be really intense while knowing that's also happening on the side. There's just a level of scorched earth.

Come hell or high water, we're getting out of this debt. and in your 60s to still be carrying this debt your whole adult life. That's what worries me because truthfully there there's a more of a chance that something could happen to you and now your wife is left carrying this pile of debt to deal with while grieving your loss. So we also have to think about reality on top of the like well we don't know how much time we have so let's just live and do the baby steps at our leisure.

I think that that's great. Um and I'm not mad at that. So, if you did, if you're like, "Listen, I've been in and out of the hospital. It's finally over. My wife and I were taking a trip to celebrate." I have no problem with that.

Uh, as a form of a lifestyle over, you know, and doing that at the detriment of not paying off your debt. I would not do that. Um, as a lifestyle, if that makes sense. >> And think about it, 200 bucks is not going to delay your debtree journey a whole lot. It's not >> 200 bucks every month or more.

>> Now, we're now we're talking about a serious delay. And so, that's I I would have you crunch the numbers. And here's what I do, John, to make myself justify things like this. I'm going to go, okay, where can I find $200 that I I haven't found yet. I'm willing to work extra or do a side hustle to come up with that $200 that wasn't going to come from our our debt payoff journey. That is a way I would uh couch it to make sure that this doesn't delay the journey as well.

>> Okay. Yeah. We don't want to take away any money that we're using to pay the debt snowball. Um we want to find it

someplace else. So, I I hear what you're saying. Mhm.

>> And then hopefully we can get this RV listed. I might look into some other options like consignment or something to have someone else list it professionally and handle it and handle the test drives and the paperwork. Even if it cost you a little bit, uh you might be able to get more for it >> doing it that way. And they might, you know, get professional photos instead of, you know, taking a iPhone picture and listing it on Facebook.

I think there might be other avenues to get this thing sold.

Ethan's up next in Nashville. What's going on, Ethan? get right to the question. We're up against the clock.

>> Hey, how are we doing? >> Great.

>> Good. Um, so I am 25. I live in

Nashville here. Yes. And I am just so

thrilled to announce that I have completed baby step three.

>> Good. Way to go. >> A big milestone for me. I've never been super great with money, but I've I've kind of I like following this system.

So, I'm to the point now where four, five, and six are my next approach. And if I look at five and six, saving for kids, college, paying off the mortgage early. I feel like these don't directly apply to me because I'm younger and I'm less established. I don't have it. I'm not married. I don't have any kids. I've never bought a house before. So, I'm I'm curious, you know, >> what can I do with my money outside of

those things? What are the next steps for me in particular? Obviously, you know, investing some is going to be good. >> Yeah. But you need to hit that 15%. So for you, baby step four still applies.

Obviously, if you have four, five, and six to do, you do them simultaneously.

But for you, that's not the case. You'll just do baby step four. You'll invest 15% into good growth stock mutual funds.

You can either do that through a job if your job has maybe a Roth 401k. If not, you could invest it into a, you know, Roth IRA and do that every single year.

And then if you have money left, yeah, add it to your budget. Some of it might be fun money, some of it might be uh additional savings because one day you are going to want to buy a house, Ethan.

And when that day comes, saving up, you know, a down payment, 20% if you can get it, whatever is going to keep that home less than 25% figures in the Nashville area. So you got plenty of work to do just in baby steps, what we call 3B, saving the down payment, and four investing. So yeah, blessing to have that time >> 15% and then stack the rest in a high yield savings account for that house in the next few years if you can make it happen. And then like Jade said, enjoy some of it too, man.

[Music]

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[Music]

Rebecca's up next in Boston. What's going on, Rebecca? How can we help today? >> Hi, guys. Thanks for my call.

>> Sure. Speak directly into your phone.

>> Can you hear me? >> Yes, that's better.

>> Okay. Um, so my husband and I bought a house earlier this year. Um, we actually moved in a week after having our first baby. Um, for religious and social reasons, we wanted to be in a specific city, but because it was really expensive, we kind of bought in the outskirts of the city. Um, it wasn't the most known location, but we said, you know, for 7 to 10 years, we'll live here, we'll build equity, we'll save more money, and then we'll go elsewhere.

Um about two months after we moved into the house, we found out that the church across the street, um the pastor has actually been trying to open a homeless shelter um in the plot of land that the church owns next to the church. Um there were government officials that were trying to fight it and kind of explain to the pastor that, you know, it's a it's a residential area. There's a lot of families, young children, and he um expressed that he was still going with it and that this was an interest of his um right now.

Okay. Can you hear me now? >> Can you It's coming in and out now.

Let's try again.

>> Okay. >> What about now? Can you hear me? >> Yep. That's better. >> That's better. >> Oh, okay. Uh, should I start from the beginning? >> No, >> no, no. We got you.

>> Oh, okay. Um, so now it's currently under an audit. Um, so we're kind of in the situation where we don't know what to do because we thought we were going to be in this house for 7 to 10 years.

We put about $40,000 of work into it.

Um, when we found out about all of this, we did a little bit of research and we actually put the house on the market, but we had to include that $40,000 of work. Um, because we didn't want to lose money on the house. There were no hits on it because we knew that it was overpriced given the fact that we put money into it. Um, so now we're kind of in the situation where if we sell the house, we really wouldn't be able to afford anything else because everything else is double the price of what we bought.

Um, but are we supposed to sell to get out now before the house potentially depreciates if there is a shelter across the street? you know, we wouldn't really want to leave our family right across from there. >> Um, do we sell it even at a loss to prevent further loss or are we supposed to kind of stick it out and and see what happens?

city or ordinance or whatever is going through, when will you know if this can happen or it's not going to happen?

What's the timeline there? >> So, nobody's been giving us a straight answer. We've been having a lot of back and forth. Some people say, "Oh, the audit could take a year. Some people say it could take six months." We're kind of like in this limbo. We don't really know. No one's really giving us an answer. >> Um, I mean, part of me,

it's one of those things. It could go either way. I I don't think that you're going to be able to get the 40,000 back.

You I think if you guys choose to move,

especially sooner than later. I think that's going to be a pill that you're probably going to have to swallow. Um >> Mhm. >> And I hate that for you because $40,000 is a lot of money. Um, but I I I do

sympathize with you because I am thinking about that, you know, once if that happens, >> how do a little due diligence and find out if what the timeline could look like

cuz obviously people have to okay this and then it's like what must be true from then on. And I would go over to the church and I would just level with whoever's >> and I'd say, "Hey, >> the pastor." >> Yeah. in in a non like combative way just say, "Hey, we're we're trying to work with what might happen here once this gets approved. How long until people will start coming here and how long until your doors are going to open?

We're just trying to do some family planning here and do they tell you anything?" >> Oh, yeah. So, I get that and they said that he I spoke to the pastor directly and he told me that it will take about 2 to three years for them to build the facility and then he expects the people to come right in after. Um the issue is is that once we start building and people know about it, then nobody's going to want to buy the house anyways. Then it's closed.

>> I see. I see. I see. >> What have your neighbors uh been saying about this?

effort, >> right? People have been calling the government officials, but like as I said there, it seems like there were some under the table situations going on. Really, nobody really knows exactly, but people are kind of just saying we can't really afford to go anywhere else. So like we kind of have to wait and see.

But I kept telling my husband, I'm like, if we take the wait and see approach, then we're going to be the people that are stuck not having a place to go.

Like, what are we supposed to do? >> Have Have you Listen, there's a couple ways you can go here. You could, yeah, tomorrow put the house up for 40,000 less and hightail it out of there. Or you could say, I really care about this neighborhood.

I really care about what's going on here. I'm going to pull my neighbors together. We're all going to go down to the church together and say, we love what you're trying to do. We just wish you could do it not here.

Is there like and start opening up the lines of conversation?

>> That's been tried like community leaison

have tried and and the pastor is very insistent on the fact that he owns this plot of land and he wants that this to go there. He has whatever deals he has and like this is this is his plan. So I I just I guess I don't know. We're so lost here. >> Well, we there's no crystal ball to say, hey, if this thing is wellrun, the home prices may rebound. We just don't know.

And so I don't think we can say across the board if there's a homeless shelter in any residential area, the market tanks there forever. And so I want you to get some facts around this. I would have your real estate agent actually pull comps in areas where there's a homeless shelter near residential homes.

And then track it to see what happened with the home prices there. Did they stabilize? Did they rebound depending on the shelter and the area? That'll actually help you get some facts cuz right now it's just all emotion and rage. And so I want I think that'll help just go, >> okay, there's not a worst case scenario.

The market's going to continue to continue to increase. So if we stick around for five years, we'll probably get our 40,000 back and be able to sell for what we paid for it or a little more versus no matter what, if we stay, it's going to be terrible.

>> Okay. And if we decide to to go, how much of a mistake is it to go back to renting? >> I don't think it's a mistake. I think that >> it's we'll call that a stupid tax that was out of your control of just we had to pay, you know, it costs us, you know, because you're going to pay realtor fees on the back end of this and closing costs just to get out of this on top of the lost, you know, missed ROI of this uh all the renovations.

So, yeah, it might cost you guys a pretty penny and might slow down your next home buying purchase, but if it's if it's going to cause you to lose your piece for the next 40 years, then I don't think it's worth it.

And even though we wouldn't be able to necessarily save as fast as the houses would appreciate in this specific community, >> I I think that's what you guys have to decide. I mean, there's not a uh there's not a right or wrong answer here. The answer is what is it? Because you called in and said, I don't want to live across from a homeless shelter.

So, if you don't, then you need to decide, okay, what are we willing to risk on the timeline here? Do we want to hold on to this a little bit longer, say another year?

Are we starting is the word starting to get out on the street that this is happening and we're getting you know I you're going to have a better uh understanding of what's taking place in your community than George and I are.

But just understand there's not a wrong or right answer here. You get to decide who where you're going to live and you get to decide how big of a problem this is going to be for you. Um, I'm just sitting here thinking about it and I'm like, is there any way that this could be a really nice facility and all the kind of things that you're concerned about really be contained? And I I'm having a hard time seeing how that could be.

>> Yeah. And that's where the research is going to help you. There's lots of homeless shelters in Boston. That's where I'm from.

And so I would go, what is the real estate market like around those shelters? And now we can see, okay, it stabilizes. Yeah, it goes down for a little bit. Nobody loves it during construction, but then once things are up and running and if it's run smoothly, things bounce back.

>> And then what about like the safety piece of just not wanting to live there? I guess that's our own. >> That's my point. That's ex you're you're exactly saying my point, Rebecca, is if that's messing with your piece and you're saying, "I don't want to live here." You can move and just understand that you're going to take a financial hit.

And to your point, it could take you longer to buy again. Like, that is going to set your timeline back. It's not saying that you're making a bad choice or a dumb choice or anything like that. It's just I am making a calculated choice and I understand that when I do this, this is the hit that I'm going to take financially.

This is the hit to my timeline it's going to take.

>> Right. What would you guys do if you were in my shoes? >> I think I'd move.

>> Really? >> I'm not saying I'd move today, but I'd be watching and if I see that this is seeming like it's going to happen, I'd probably try to get out of there. >> That's just me. I have two young kids.

>> No matter what, whoever is going to move there is probably going to find out this project is going to be happening in the foreseeable future. So, they either go, "Yan, okay, we'll deal with that. Not a big deal." Or they get spooked by it.

And so someone's going to want to buy a house in the Boston area regardless of what it's near. That's just how it is in a in a very, you know, populated metro like Boston. Can you tell us what area this is?

>> Uh I don't want to get too specific on that. >> You said it's pretty far out though.

>> Like is it in city limits?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah.

I mean I It's If you're right across the street, if it's the next house over, or is it around the block? Like all that matters. If it was right across my from my front door, I'd probably >> if I'm on the front porch staring at it, that that's different. So again, I would do all the research before making any decision if I was in your shoes and then I would have a conversation with my wife.

We would be aligned and then we would do it regardless of the financial implications. We'd go, "All right, this is what it's costing us to make this move." >> Mhm.

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Phoenix, Arizona up next. What's going on, Henry? Welcome to the show. Hey guys, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. What's your question?

>> Hey, uh my question, uh I'm just getting started with baby step number two. Uh so looking forward to all the pain and stuff that Dave talked about. Yeah.

>> Uh um I guess my question is around staying motivated as you're going through this baby step. Um especially with my

situation, just there's external uh circumstances and stuff like that that are pretty demotivating. like what?

>> Uh my wife had a intrusive brain surgery

back uh end of 2021 that left her disabled and it kind of >> sorry >> it kind of took away all like our our hopes and dreams of our future life together and stuff like that. So it's kind of like part of us is wondering like why even you know go through the baby steps and stuff if there's nothing to live for at the other end you know.

>> Oh my gosh I'm sorry that is that is very tough. So, let me ask let me just

reverse the question back to you. Why why are you doing this? Why is this important to you?

>> Um, I have been a person that's always been on top of my payments and just because of the depression, shame, whatever you want to um call it over the past couple years. Um, we kind of acrewed the 45 grand of of debt now. Um,

and the past two months now I haven't been able to pay my cards and it's embarrassing and I'm I I just don't want to deal with that anymore. So, just I got the second job and it's starting this week and we're just going to grind through it. >> Nice. What's your household income?

>> Um, so my day job I make uh 59 a year

with a 10% bonus at the end of the year and then I picked up a restaurant gig in the evenings and from talking with my different training people. Um, they make

150 a night on week nights and then right around 250 to 300 on the the weekends. So, I'm probably if I can pick up enough shifts, I'm I'm low estimate

of 1,500 a month, >> okay, >> for the next couple months while it's restaurant season here in Arizona.

>> So, I mean, no question uh your picture

of life has changed and you're probably still struggling to see what what that's going to be and what that looks like.

I'm not mad at you finding something to focus on, especially something productive like paying off $45,000 of debt. Um, I I can only speak for me,

George, but sometimes having something like that to focus on when everything feels out of control. This is one thing that you can control. Sometimes that's just what you need to power through a season like this. >> Um, and on the other side of it,

there'll be some peace because this debt will be gone. Um, and it kind of clears the deck for you to say, "Okay, what is our life going to look like now? What does it mean for me working? What does it mean for her care?" All of these different things. So, I I I think this is worthwhile for you to do um for the same reasons that other people do it, right? There's still going to be peace on the other side financially for you.

Now, as far as the motivation, are you concerned that uh the working

the extra hours at the restaurant is what's going to wear you down? Is that kind of what you're talking about?

>> Yeah, the the exhaustion from that. Um

and then also just the extra time away from my wife cuz she's she's home alone, you know. >> Yeah. Uh, and I mean, you're going to have to balance that because there are some extrinuating circumstances here for you that you're going to have to say, uh, I might have to pull back in certain seasons. And I think that you can navigate that and judge that for yourself. What's the timeline when you put the these numbers into every dollar?

What is it telling you? How long is it going to take you with this money?

>> About 20 months. >> Okay. 20 months. So yeah, I you I have

found as a person who walked a debt payoff journey of seven and a half years, I kind of found that there's moments where you're pressing on the gas, you know, pedal to the metal and then a life moment happens and it causes you to take your foot off ever so slightly and then, you know, you recalibrate and then you put the pedal to the metal again. And so that's a lot of times what it looks like. Um that's just the reality of it. Not to say that you've done anything wrong and I'm sure that that'll pop up in your circumstance, too.

intent of I'm gazelle intense. Come hell or high water. And then if something happens with your wife or something happens when you need to pull back, that's okay. And then you hit it again strong as soon as you can.

>> Awesome. Yeah, that's great. >> What were some of your your dreams and goals that are now off the table that have left you guys kind of feeling just cynical toward the future?

>> Uh children. Um just a normal life. We

were both artists pursuing our different uh stuff out in LA for a bit. Um, and then we had to move back to be near family for help. Um, and she was a very very gifted musician and now she she can't play or sing at all much. So, um,

you know, it's just hard to see and hard to not be able to do the things you love. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, man. That's so tough. Are you guys still wanting to become parents in the future through other means?

>> Uh, possibly. But with the just neurological fatigue that she experiences on a day-to-day basis, I'd have to make enough money to either work from home and be there to help out or hire an uh stay-at-home like nurse or something, you know? >> Yeah. >> Nanny. >> How fresh is this?

>> Oh, the surgery was about four years ago, end of 2021.

>> Okay. >> Um, and like I said, we've just been going through a lot of like just depression and just grieving the loss of our lives, if you will. >> Absolutely.

Uh, and you know, we've we've been doing therapy and that type of stuff and trying to get through it. Um, but I think it's fresh right now because her her mom was just got into uh she her mom

just had brain stem surgery for the same disease. So, um, >> so she's in ICU right now. So, it's kind of that's kind of just why it's fresh.

>> I'm so sorry. Was this like a kiari malf for something like that?

>> Uh, yeah. Um, CCM, a cabinoma. It's like

a a lesion. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm so sorry, man. Well, you're you're taking the right steps. Um I'm proud of you. It's hard to just like to wake up and go to work and face the day.

Yeah. >> And I want to send you a copy of John Deloney's book, Building a Non- Anxious Life. It's got six daily choices. Um and one of them is, you know, choose reality. And you guys have grieved what was and now it's like this is the reality of what is. And it'll also help you start to dream and create a new picture that you both are aligned on.

Uh, but I'm I'm with you in the fact that it's hard and I'm also with I'm against you in the fact that I think this gives you a much deeper why of why to do the baby steps. You have more reason than almost anyone to do it because you can create financial peace in your home to where you have flexibility to be there for your wife instead of be stressed out about the debt working 90 hours a week forever.

I'd rather you suffer for 20 months and sacrifice than 20 years of just kind of mediocrity carrying this debt, carrying the shame. >> There's still a lot of life to be had.

even if it's not the picture that you guys had. And so I want to encourage you with that and and get you a copy of that book. But man, it's it's not easy.

There's no sugar coating this and working those nights knowing your wife is at home and I mean it's it's going to be a grind, but you can do anything for 20 months. You guys have already been through the hardest of this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

Thank you guys for that. It's a it's a great new perspective and a great way to look at it. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call, Henry.

Appreciate you. Hang on the line. We'll get you a copy of John's book. All right, man.

I just got to take a moment to breathe after that one, Jade. >> Yeah, that's tough. I mean, your life can change in the twinkling of an eye, just in the in a split second, man. It's tough.

>> And it's one of those reasons, you know, people who don't follow the baby steps because they feel like life is going well, >> you know, they're not at a like rock bottom where they're like, I need to clean a mess up. >> Yeah. >> That's that's where they you can't show them that. You can't show them the future where life's going to happen to you.

>> Right? And it's not about like being like fatalistic or having like this glass half empty point of view, but the truth is life does happen. I mean, it could be as simple as, oh my gosh, I I tripped down the stair and I broke my leg and now I'm out of work, you know?

Uh, emergencies happen, life happens, diagnosis happen, you know, marriage

shifts happen in the form of divorce. I mean, we hear it all the time and you just never know. No one sets out for the day and says, "I know today is going to be the day that the doctor calls with bad, right?" But you you do want to prepare your life in such a way to where if the worst does happen, you've set yourself up for success in the best possible ways that you could have success. Yeah. Right. Because what he's facing feels very, I'm sure, very dark.

But to have this one thing that's like, "Okay, but I did this and because of this, now I can go home. I can have a little bit more peace than I would have had else-wise, right?

>> And for our world, that's not owing other people money. Not having to deal with that payment while you're also trying to figure out finances for the future if there's a a job loss or a health scare. >> Having an emergency fund to cover you so you're not having to swipe that credit card or take out that personal loan or do the HELOC. Investing for the future so that you do have that nest egg built up so that in case you can't work one day, you have money to cover your expenses.

That's why we do the baby steps. Not cuz life's going great, because we don't know what life will throw at us.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888255225.

Oliver is in Davenport, Iowa. Up next, what's going on Oliver?

>> Thank you for having me. I'm about to get into about a million dollars worth of debt and I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing. >> Have you done it yet? Have you signed any paperwork? Can we talk you off the ledge?

>> Well, let's see if if if that's the way to go about it.

>> Okay. So, what is the million dollars for? >> So, I've until about a year ago, I lived

by their Ramsey rules uh religiously,

both me and my wife. Haven't had a single dollar in loans. And about a year

ago, I started a business and we killed it this year. Uh, I've more than tripled my income and we're doing fantastically.

However, I now come uh to an opportunity

which requires an additional about $450,000 investment into the business and I just

found out that my wife's pregnant. So, we are also building a house.

>> Okay. >> So, >> you gota you got to have room for that.

The baby, you know, a six pound baby needs an extra 2,000 square feet. >> Take up so much room. That's the law in America.

Yes. >> So, tell me, let's start with let's start with the house. So, what are you spending on this house and have you already made an offer? Is it a done deal or is it too late?

>> So, it's we've already started it. Uh

we've already signed the paperwork and we started building it. It should be finished in in February.

>> What' you spend >> and at that point we will be taking out a loan uh to purchase it.

>> Okay. And what's the total spend on the house? It is $560,000.

>> Okay. And did you do it following the Ramsey principles with the payment and everything like that, the down payment and the what the mortgage is going to be? >> We have put uh 25% down payment and

we're not spending more than 20 uh I don't remember how many exactly percent of our income on it. >> Okay. 25% no more than 25% of your take-home pay every month, including HOAs, taxes, and insurance. Okay, good.

That's a green check from me. Uh I'm not mad about that. So, let's talk about this $450,000 quote opportunity.

>> You should if Go watch on YouTube later, Oliver. I threw my hands up in the air because just during the break, I told Jade, I said, "Jade, every time I hear the word opportunity, it's someone about to do something real stupid." And so, you just you hit my trigger button.

>> So, and that that's kind of where I'm at. Uh, so I started this I I've been doing this my entire life pretty much.

I'm a CNC machinist. We have all sorts of fancy degrees, but I opened an aerospace and medical uh device company.

So, all we do is make uh components for other people. Uh and the we've only

opened our doors in February, and now we're up to making 13 to $15,000 a

month. And that's not very consistently

even though I still have a full-time job on top of that just for security purposes cuz it is a new business. When you say per month, is that like topline revenue or is that net profit?

>> That's that's net profit.

>> Okay, good job. >> Amazing. What are you making with your full-time job?

>> I make 175. My wife makes 85.

>> Awesome. So, you already had a great income before this business.

>> Yes. >> And how did this opportunity present itself for you to go half million in debt for a business?

Uh well, I have multiple customers that I work with right now and we currently have only one machine that we work on and we cannot supply the demand and

buying an additional piece of equipment will allow me probably triple my income.

Uh if if that uh probably even more

because right now I'm paying a lot for rent. So if I can put more machines into my shop, I can make more money, right?

>> So the machine costs 450 grand. That's

including all the installation fees, tooling, etc. So, that's all things considered. >> Okay. >> So, I'm always going to suggest that you move at, you know, the speed of cash on things like this. But my question is, is

there is this any is any part of this incremental or is it like I must do it all at once? 450,000 bam on the table.

>> It's all or nothing.

>> Okay. What happens if you don't do it in the next two years?

Well, if I don't do it in the next four months, I lose the business that that I

have lined up for that. Well, not really lined up, but the opportunity that's lined up for it, cuz I do have specific orders that are coming down the pipeline that I can put on it. And if I hold off

for another year, those orders are not going to be there. Not probably won't find new ones, but >> can you go on a different growth track?

like can you go in another direction that'll continue you building this $15,000 profit a month plus your other

income with you and your wife what is that around $260,000 is there a way that you can capitalize another area of your business continue to grow that until you can afford to make some of these upgrades >> not really I'm topped out at the moment we're we're already running two shifts and running through the night just to try and keep up >> so what was your original business plan

of >> of scale like scaling the business.

>> Start.

>> Got you. >> And then figure Well, I I had a couple of orders lined up just to get started, but really it was >> start going down the pipeline and start doing it and >> and it's going to work out and it it really did. >> Did you have the ab did you have the thought in mind when you because I'm trying to understand when you first started this business, did you have in your mind, I'm starting this business.

uh I'm not going to take out debt for it. I'm just going to grow it even if it's slow and steady. Or did you have in mind I'm gonna start this business and I'm going to be one of those people who, you know, takes on investors and takes loans and who were you when you started this pro this project?

>> I was planning to, if needed, I was planning to take loans and grow exponentially if that's where I needed to go. It's just right now I'm I never expected to be in this position a year >> from starting the business. I thought it's going to be a much more slower and gradual uh growth rather than all and

everything all at once.

>> Uh and all of the tariffs that are now happening are definitely helping out with that because we're having a lot of people who used to order from other countries and now they're coming back to the US.

>> So here's my take. I think the opportunity will still be there. You might lose some in the meantime, but I don't want you to get too stareyed and go, "Well, if we had seven machines, we could 20x." At some point, there's not enough money in the world to make the stress worth it, >> especially with a baby on the way. And so, I want you to think about just the reality of your situation.

You're about to move. You got a baby on the way. Do we also want another half million in debt now?

>> Now, you have to be there working overnight. And what if she decides to stay home once the baby's here?

>> Well, what does that do? that might put some strain on this financial situation we've created because we owe a lot of money now.

>> Fair point. >> So, that's the part I can't show you on paper. That's just the reality of life.

Uh, but I would say, can we make a plan to save up and pay cash for this thing in less than two years?

>> I think that's the reality. If you guys are bringing home, you know, I don't know, 25 grand a month and you can live off seven. Let's throw 18 into a high yield savings account and two two years from now we have 450 grand in cash.

Now that thing's cash flowing beautifully instead of having a, you know, $4,000 a month payment on it.

>> Yeah. There's nothing on fire here unless you make it on fire.

>> And that's the beauty of what you've done so far. >> You're a brilliant guy. And so all I'm saying is the opportunities will be there. People want good, honest, quality work done from smart people.

And I think that opportunity will still be there 2 years from now. And I hope you call back and you have a multi multi-million dollar machining business that is paid for in cash. And I think that future is very much possible for you guys. It's going to happen sooner than you know it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Philip is in South Dakota. Welcome to the Ramsay Show, Philip. How can we help? >> Hi. Um, thanks for having me. Uh I uh so me and

my wife um have been living paycheck to

paycheck for quite a few years now. Um

at one point we we managed to get out, but that was when I had worked a job that uh paid me more and then I unfortunately lost that job and then um

now I'm a custodian at a school that pays me once a month. Um, we just had our our second kid and um, she's not

working right now, but I'm fine. Uh, to

to really make this this money uh, stretch. Um, and and I I I don't know

how I'm I'm trying to make our money stretch, but also not live paycheck to paycheck. >> Yeah. >> How much debt do you guys have?

Well, uh I I'm I'm I'm

thousands uh in the uh for for

healthcare. Um so >> you got medical bills? >> I know she's Yeah, medical. And then um I know that she's uh she's in debt with

uh medical, too. Um >> you got car loans, credit cards?

>> Uh no, we do not. Actually, I I had a credit card when I had moved up here and I I think I paid it off because um they

haven't bothered me since. I wasn't terribly in debt with the credit card, thank God, but >> Okay. Okay. So, I'm hearing some >> I'm I'm hearing some uncertainty in your language, which lets me know that you haven't really gotten your head around

your finances. You kind of know that there is some debt, but maybe you don't know how much it is, and hopefully it's gone. like that kind of situation. What I'd like is for you and your wife to sit down tonight and pull out everything that you think there might be surrounding this.

>> And you can pull your credit reports to help. You can go to annualcreditreport.com and pull all three from the three credit bureaus for free. That'll give you a real clear picture of what's out there. Mhm.

There's debt. I don't know how much. I'm just making the payment. You know, you're just barely getting by. You don't have a budget. And so when you don't have a plan, it's really hard to be in control of your money. And so if we give you every dollar, that's going to be the plan going forward. But you guys have to do it. You got to plug the numbers in.

You put your income at the top, which by the way, uh, what are you making as a custodian? What do you bring home every month? >> Well, I get paid $17 an hour. Uh, 2,300

a month. I get paid once a month. I think that rounded up to 31,000

$32,000 a year.

>> Okay. Is there money coming in from anywhere else or is this the only money to you guys' name every single month? Is there any um anything else? Um, if she

goes back to work, she'd be pulling in money, too. Um, I think she makes around

a th00and $1,000 every every two weeks.

>> What about What about your living situation? What are you paying for rent?

>> We we pay about $1,000 for rent. Um,

>> so that's half your income just about right there, >> which >> Yes, sir. >> to pay $1,000 in any other circumstance isn't bad, but when you're only making 2,300, it it's impossible, right? So,

the key here, this is an income problem, and I think that you realize that. When will your wife start working again?

>> Um, >> well, like I said, she she had her baby about about a month ago. Um, so I would

assume maybe maybe in in a couple weeks.

Um, I told her when she's ready to go back in. So, I I I don't want to throw

her back into work if she's not ready.

>> Which means that you're gonna have to have like four jobs. Okay.

>> And I hate telling you that because it's your baby, too, right? And you're like, I want to be home with the newborn. I want to see this baby, you know, grow every day a little bit each more each day. But you don't have that luxury right now. You've got to have the custodian job and three others while you're online and knocking on doors to

find another main job that pays more.

You've got your work cut out for you, Philip. >> What were you doing before?

Um, well, before I was working at a gas station and that paid uh I think 13 or

$14 an hour. Um, >> well, you said you were making more money and now and then you lost that.

>> I was I'm sorry. I I was making more money uh two years ago when I was working at a when I was working at an ethanol plant.

I was making about $22 an hour.

>> Okay. >> Um and I was getting paid bi-weekly. And um >> How old are you? >> That was pretty good.

I'm I'm 25. Okay, you're still a young guy. I What I think we need to do is find ourselves a career instead of just a job. Something you can really sink your teeth into, grow in, and that'll get you making 50, 60, 70, 80.

That's who people are looking to hire.

So, what kind of skills would you say you have that you could apply to another area? Are you good with your hands? Are you pretty handy?

Yeah, I I don't mind, you know, getting my hands dirty and and doing grunt work.

That's what I've been doing most of my life. I worked in construction before I moved to South Dakota. So, um I I did

that for for a long while there. Um

>> sorry, you broke up on us. What I'm going to do, Philip, is send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

>> So we do need to increase that income ASAP >> and if your if your wife can get back to work and make you know 354 grand and you can start making 45 50 grand well now we have a plan to get out of this a whole lot faster. Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I like that plan for you.

And I, you know, I think sometimes people think they've got to have a college degree. They've got to have this college education and that's not always the case. So, I think that Ken Coleman's book is really going to help you get on the right path. >> Yeah.

Hang on the line will get you every dollar. And Ken's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. John is in Houston up next. John, how can we help today?

>> Yes, sir. So, we're my wife and I were expecting.

year. Um, now her family is uh giving us

a section of land and we're looking at

putting a double wide on it and we're going to be there for, you know, that's our going to be our forever. Uh, my real

main question on this is I have the opportunity to go through with the VA home loan like my current home loan. Um,

but I don't know if I want to or if it'd be a good idea to pair the land and the

VA home loan because that's what it's going to require or keep the land separate and do what they call a cattle loan.

>> That's just like a highinterest personal property loan. So, let me >> pretty much. Yes, it is.

>> You triggered me again. And I don't know how long you've been listening this hour, but you say the word opportunity and I get my my my fists are up ready to fight >> cuz what you're about set yourself up to is get a depreciating asset at a very high interest rate, >> right? >> And so this it's a bad plan all around.

>> And the VA loans, they can be an okay deal in some cases if your disability rating is high enough, but man, it's riddled with fees. The closing takes forever. There's really strict requirements and it gets people into houses with nothing down which is not a good thing because all that means is you have 100% loan and you have no equity.

>> Right. Correct. So we would still take our current equity, split that in half, pay off the truck and pay uh actually

still do a down payment.

>> How much debt do you guys have?

Uh I we only have the the house which we

owe 110 and the truck which is 38 and then about a th000 on a credit card.

>> And why why would you go from the house which is appreciating to a mobile home?

>> Yeah. What's >> Well, it is a it is a current mobile home with land, but it has the land has appreciated. And my agent, you know, I

talked with her the other day. She told me what we could list and what everything's selling at and I would have equity in it. >> Yeah, but what's the rush? I don't think there's I don't think there's a rush around this and I don't like what you're rushing towards. I I agree with with George on this. Plus, you still have debt. >> Yeah. What's your household income?

>> Uh mine is anywhere per year from 76 to

probably about 80. Uh my wife's is about

32 right now. She's in school. that

we're paying for, you know, cashwise and she'll be making about 50 to 60. Okay.

>> And then VA, >> you guys have a strong income, man. I would just go slow and get out of the house. I would not move to another mobile home that's going to depreciate.

I don't think the land's going to appreciate fast enough to make this a good idea.

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Not available in all states. All >> righty. Today's question comes from Toby in New York. He says, "If I have two full-time jobs and the second income is currently going towards investing in my retirement and the Oh, let me read that again. If I have two full-time jobs and

the second income is currently going towards investing in my retirement fund, do I still need to have an emergency fund since this second job effectively

insulates me from the loss of my primary job? I would like to invest as much as I can now while I'm young and worry about the emergency fund later. I'm debtree other than my mortgage. Oh, Toby, what?

Sweet Toby. Okay, so I hear what you're saying. I understand your logic, but there's several holes in your logic. Um, number one, an emergency fund for those who are new to this. We suggest uh the

order of events with your finances are

first you just set a quick $1,000 aside.

Uh then you pay off all of your debt.

That's baby step two, all of your debt except your mortgage. And then baby step three. Yeah, you save up 3 to six months of an emergency fund. After that, you start investing. So that's what Toby is talking about. Um, Toby, the problem is,

uh, emergency funds are there for more things than job loss, right? That's one of the emergencies that could come up.

Or another emergency you could have is, you know, you get in a car accident, you can't work for a while or all sorts of other things. Uh, so there's that money is there for a plethora of reasons. So that's hole number one in your reasoning. The other idea is, well, if something does pop up and you don't have an emergency fund, you're going to need money from somewhere.

And if you don't have an emergency fund, you're going to do one of two things. You're either going to unplug your investments, which if you do that, that's to the tune of taxes and fees and all of this, or you're going to turn around and take out debt. So, you're not setting yourself up to win. The reason that we teach the baby steps in the order that we teach them is because it's a system.

And systems build on one thing after another in order for the system to function properly. So I'm not just talking to Toby right now. I'm talking to anybody who thinks that they can kind of hack the baby steps and switch them around to suit their order. When you switch the baby steps around, they don't work anymore >> because you have to have the foundation in order to start building the wealth the correct way.

And so no, Toby, I would not do that. I would do your emergency fund first.

>> I'm just still confused at the two jobs.

I'm like, this is one of those situations. He calls in and goes, "Hey, I lost both jobs cuz I found out I was two times." >> Right. Right. How can you work two full-time jobs effectively? That's a question for another day. >> I don't Are you sleeping? I don't know.

You circular breathing around the clock.

>> I don't know. So, sounds like >> And you don't have a I mean, you're not God, so you can't just push all of your emergencies to when you're retired.

That's not how it works. So, like this idea, you're going to get the emergency fund later. The emergencies are going to come before you're ready for it at this point. >> Always.

They always do. >> I would pause investing and just stack up cash for three months. Keep it in high yield savings. >> You'll do it so fast.

>> Don't invest that money. Keep it liquid and you'll sleep better at night if you're sleeping at all. Toby, we don't know. >> No, he's not sleeping.

He's >> He's left us with more questions than answers. >> Android. He's He's >> Goodness gra.

>> The AI Toby. That's sketchy. All right, Stephanie is up next in Louisville, Kentucky. What's going on, Stephanie?

>> Hi, Jaden George. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, >> my question is, so we just finished

babys number three, me and my husband.

Um, I went into my 401k contribution to

bump that up to 15%.

um while we were planning out our budget and we immediately got like bummed out because it wiped out all of our extra

cash that we were planning on maybe kind of increasing our spending or >> having a little extra money to throw at the house or save up for a new mom van

because I'm currently driving a 2005

Honda Odyssey with only one working sliding door. >> Um so that's where we're at right now.

We're kind of bummed and I don't know where else to go cuz I don't think we really live outside our mean.

>> What are your total expenses versus your take-home pay?

>> Uh our take-home pay is about well

pre-tax it's 3,800 after taxes it's like

3,200. >> Okay. >> Um so then we've got like >> how much is your mortgage? I guess the 401 it's about or that's the one thing that I think we might be able to have wiggle room on. Our mortgage is 1,500

but it's a 30-year and um yeah, it's about 20% I think of

our pre-tax.

>> Well, that's where >> I guess that's where your problem is.

>> Is your monthly take-home pay 3,200 or is that bi-weekly?

>> Oh, that's bi-weekly. >> Oh, okay. I was about to say Well, there you have it. You about gave us a heart attack over here. We were like, uh, that's all of the problem right there.

Okay. So, 6,400. Is that after the

retirement contributions are taken out?

>> The 7700 is our before tax um monthly

income. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out how much margin is really there after the 15% and healthcare premiums.

All of that comes out and you're saying, "Hey, we got nothing left at that point." >> Yeah. Are you guys do you do 10% tithe or do you do a higher percentage of giving? What's your giving look like?

>> Um our giving is about like 5%.

>> Okay. So >> 401k is at like 15.

>> Taxes I guess are another 15. The

mortgage is 20. Groceries is 10. Eating

out is about five.

>> Do you have daycare? Anybody in daycare?

>> No. Health insurance is about eight. No, we don't have any daycare. We have diapers and I mean all the normal things. Oil changes and home maintenance. And >> do you have a bunch of sinking funds?

>> No, we have I guess we have a Christmas budget we had to bump up recently.

That's 200 per month, >> but that's just so we can be prepared for Christmas. >> The reason I ask is sometimes a bunch of scing funds can kind of drain off margin um >> if you're have them set year round and you're just doing a little bit but you're doing a bunch of them. I mean, I'd want to take a look at your budget because obviously, yeah, mortgage should be no more than 25%. Um, 15% for

investing, 10% giving. That's 50. That's half gone right there. So, I'm wondering how much those all those other little odds and ends that are eating into this and how necess how how necessary they

are at the current amounts. And that's what you're going to have to go through with a fine tooth comb. There are some things uh time of life that can really play into it like if you have kids in daycare or kids in private school things like that can really eat into that margin after 15% but I don't hear that here. So, I think it's just a bunch of like death by a thousand cuts >> because if you guys are bringing home about 6,400 and the mortgage is 1,500, well, there should be $5,000 disappearing somewhere.

Well, now that's 12 grand a year towards this minivan goal. Mhm. What do you spend on food every month?

>> Uh groceries is about 200 a week, so 800

a month. And then eating out is about a hundred a week, so it's like 1,200 total. >> That's not bad. Um

anything else we should know about? I mean, you could p you could squeeze some of that. You're a family of four, though, right?

>> Uh five. Yes. >> Oh, yes. Groceries, food is good.

>> Yeah. Like you said, I don't think anything's out of control here. I would also reshop your insurance and see if you can save. That's one of those weird areas where you're like, "Oh, we've had whatever, you know, for 20 years and we just never looked into it." And so I would um jump on ramies.com and start reshopping your insurance cuz that's somewhere you could shave off hundreds just overnight just by realizing we've been overpaying.

>> And on top of that, there might be a season where you guys need to increase your income to save up for this van or increase the income if your lifestyle is just way up here. We need our income to match it. And so, one of us or both of us need to work a little more, get that promotion, start scaling up in our career. I think both of those are going to help you long term and both should happen.

But right now, the thing you can do tonight is start going through that budget, going through every transaction, every bank statement going, where can we do better >> and I think that will help you find some margin right now. But >> you're doing all the right things. the money's going to the right places, but I agree there should be a little bit more to save up for that car upgrade, to put money away for college, to pay off the house early. So, I hope you guys will get there in due time.

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What's going on, Kevin?

>> Hey, guys. Um, I'm just uh wondering a little bit of a moral financial question. Um, if do I uh morally uh owe

my dad's girlfriend uh money from his estate? Okay. >> There is so much context needed.

>> Your dad's girlfriend. Tell us more.

>> Well, number one, did you borrow money from your dad's girlfriend?

>> I did not. >> So, why would you owe him money?

>> Well, they've been together for quite some time, a little bit over 20 years uh now. And, uh, he passed away about two months ago. >> Um, and they were living together at the time. And now um her uh her daughter is

now pressuring uh family members on my

side uh to somehow come together and

financially split uh the money from his

uh from his estate once we get it uh and give it >> Why are you getting it? Did it all go to you? >> No. So it goes to uh me, my brother, and

uh and my halfsister. Um they he did uh

pass away unexpectingly uh without a will. Um and they were never married.

>> Okay. So I was gonna ask what was there a will that said it went to you or the courts just decided this?

>> No, it's there was no will. Uh and the the money will be split between uh me uh

my brother and my sister. >> And how long was he with the girlfriend?

>> Uh just just north of 20 years. 22 23

years something like that. >> And they lived together. their did were their lives combined as though they were married >> basically. Yeah. >> And the daughter is that your dad's daughter or that's the girlfriend's daughter from another relationship?

>> Correct. Yes. >> Oo, that's messy. Boy, oh boy. What does

she want? >> Yeah. What was his wishes? Did he have a will? Like your name was on everything legally? >> Uh, no. There was no will. Actually, yeah. No. >> So, it's just a next of kin thing. The government just goes, "All right, give it to the kids." >> What? What are they requesting? Uh what's the girlfriend requesting? And what's her attitude? Like what's her demeanor been?

>> Well, it's it's more her daughter is requesting. It's not necessarily her.

>> She's trying to fight on behalf of her mom to go, "Mom, you're owed something. You were with this guy 20 years. This is crazy." >> How old is the daughter?

>> Uh just over 30. 30. 31.

>> And what's her Tell me about her. if you know anything. Is she doing okay financially or does this have the ability of like a lever that she's pulling to try to get something?

>> No, she's she's not financially uh financially set. Um she um lives with

her boyfriend. They have uh they actually have a baby on the way. Um they

are just kind of living their lives. And I mean I I can understand where they're coming from with trying to get uh money back into her. Um, and they're only really pressuring uh my youngest sister,

my half sister. They're only pressuring her. They they won't come and talk to me. >> What What are they What are they asking for specifically?

>> They're they're basically asking for her to either split and or give up uh her

portion of the >> give up. What is the rationale for her giving up her share? uh because uh

because her mom put all this time and

money into the the house basically.

>> Okay. My dad >> is the house split amongst the three of you now. >> Uh whatever we have to sell the house.

So whatever whatever we have on top of that basically once all the debt gets paid. Um once the house gets paid off once the debt gets paid. >> So the girlfriend has to move out. The girlfriend has to move out so you can sell the house. Is that right? or she wasn't living there >> among among other things. Yeah. So, uh I I I was actually so I was renting a

house that my grandmother owned. Um and

since uh since they had since we had we

found out we have to sell the house, um they all needed a place to to live. So, I packed up me and my family and went

and rented a different house so that way they can move into that house. paid for.

That's that's my grandmother's own house for like 55 years. So, she's owned that house and that way they can all have a place to live >> and that way they're not, you know, struggling to jump around and find a place to live. It's my grandmother, uh, her and brother or brother and a step

brother. Yeah. So, it was just a decision me and my me and my wife made.

>> Let me Can I recap that and make sure I understood it? So you were living in your grandmother's paid for house with your family and you said I'll leave that house. So my dad's girlfriend and

daughter can move in there free and clear, right? >> Well, it's my So it was my my it was all basically all the people that lived at my dad's house. So it was my grandmother who had just moved in in February. Um

>> her uh his his girlfriend. I have a stepbrother which is her son.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Um and then my full brother. Okay. So clearly they all have a place to live.

>> So the girlfriend and the daughter are not displaced is what I'm saying. They're taken care of. Cuz my my thought the one thing I did wonder about is like, okay, she's been living with this man for 20 years. It does feel like the rug's being pulled under her out from under her. She has to move out of the house. She doesn't have a place to go and she doesn't have any money. Right.

So it does make me feel better that she's got a place to live indefinitely.

She's not on the streets. >> She's not on the streets. >> And this is in Pennsylvania. All of this. >> Correct. and the and the the the if if there's a silver lining to this, it's that I mean they move into a house that is paid for. There's no rent. There's no mortgage. There's no there's basically living. >> Who pays the taxes?

>> Who pays the taxes? >> My grandmother will be paying the taxes.

>> Okay. So, >> u but um but but rent from the other three people that are living in the house will pay for their taxes.

>> Great. Okay. Great. And does does girlfriend have to pay rent?

I don't know their uh financial the way

Hazo they're handling that house. Okay.

Right now. >> And did she have to I I I'm just trying to understand when she was living with your dad, did she pay or did he pay for

everything or you don't know?

>> Uh so they he basically paid for

everything. She did work. Um she really only worked to so that way they can have insurance because he didn't have insurance for his company. So he basically held everything financial down.

She kind of only worked enough to pay for insurance. Okay. >> I don't think that you guys are on the hook to do anything here. This is what happens when you don't have a will.

This is what happens when you don't estate plan >> when you don't get married and have a house to get married to. So, there's a lot of things that went wrong here. And it's very complicated. But morally, legally, ethically, I don't think you owe anything.

And here's the problem. If you guys do give them a dollar, they're going to come at you for the next dollar and the next $100. And so, it's going to open a door. And I just would keep that door closed personally.

Mhm.

>> Yeah, that's what I was I was on the phone with my uh my youngest sister uh today just kind of going over and explaining that to her, but I just kind of wanted to get a little bit of a a second opinion. >> Well, there was never a commitment. So, and and that's what I'm going to base my answer on anyway is if you want a commitment to getting money out of a

will, then you have to start with a commitment through marriage. And so that I'm going to keep that same through line of a commitment was never made and therefore a commitment does not have to be fulfilled. Um, and that's kind of some people might be like, well, dang, Jay. Like the woman was living there for 20 years. And I get that. I hate that.

For me, being okay with it is the fact that y'all didn't displace her. You made sure she has a place to live.

>> She's she's taking she's okay on that end. And my other part is she had a role

to play in this, too. It wasn't just that your dad left her without anything.

She also could have said, "Hey, I'm here. I've been with you, you know, do you have a will? Is everything taken care of?" So, both >> for 20 years to not even think about this is pretty pretty wild behavior. And so, she put herself in a very risky position and now is, you know, is reaping the consequences of that.

But under from what I've seen under Pennsylvania law, she has no right to any of this just as a girlfriend. She's an unrelated person in this and it's going to go to the legal error. So, I would consult a lawyer if you want to cover your bases.

But you did nothing to cause this. And I don't think it's your problem to solve either. >> Yeah. >> So, so sorry you're going through this.

I mean, >> goodness. If I'm you, I'm like, lesson learned. I don't want to put my family in the situation. Let me simplify and not intertwine family finances and non-family and are we or aren't we? Just keep things very, very clear.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Marcus is in Columbus, Ohio. Marcus, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. >> What's going on today?

>> So, I have a bit of a a question uh around whole life insurance. uh something that I know um some there's a lot of opinions out there about and I'm considering a whole life policy in addition to uh a term life policy and I

have a bit of a unique case in the reason why I'm considering it and I'm curious to get your thoughts and opinions on it. >> Okay. Yeah. What's brought you to this point where you think you need it?

>> So just a little background on myself.

I'm uh so I'm 39 and and uh I just

started consulting a year ago. Uh I'm married. My wife isn't working but she's helping out a little bit but she's priority is uh managing our two kids three and five. Um so considering two policies, the term life um being 40 and then between now and 60 having that term

life insurance there available um in

case anything happens. and then looking at a whole life um in terms of being

able to access a certain amount of dollars now, a certain dollars between

now and 60 to where I can't touch a lot of the investments. Um so >> what do you need access to the money for? I'm confused. So, so the thought is

that um I have, you know, so $10,000 I'm

considering putting in to a policy. If I was to need a certain amount of money between, you know, now and and 60 or

towards cars or or whatever expenses may come across, I want to be able to have access to my own money um and also be

able to kind of still have it grow um separate from >> You can do that in a savings account.

>> Yeah. Or you could invest or an investment account. Yeah. >> So, why not just have your own emergency fund or syncing fund or even side investment account if you're trying to build wealth for the future? Why do it inside of an super expensive whole life policy where you make someone rich while you stay broke? >> Yeah. With a bad rate of return.

>> So, the return um is what I was curious

about is the return. So, the return being low and of course a savings having

you know barely anything. So not looking for a an investment on these dollars,

but something that I can actually So the

idea with the whole life is that you could borrow against uh the the dollars that you put in. >> And so with that thought, I was wondering if I was to put in dollar, you know, say $10,000 into this and be able to kind of continue contributing to it and have the benefit of borrowing back to myself. >> Why do you need to borrow back to yourself? >> But do you not s That sounds insane. Why not just take money out of your savings and replenish it? That's the same thing without interest that you're paying.

>> Yeah. Or use the $10,000 that you started with for whatever it was that you needed. >> So, if the $10,000 was to use to pay off, say, a car or some something like that or to pay off whatever expenses, then it goes away. >> Not if you invest it.

>> What if you invested in it?

>> Let's just pretend. Let forget the baby steps. What baby step you're on right now. Let's say you have $10,000 and you say, "I want this to continue on for me." Yeah, I probably won't put it in a high yield because the rate of return is not enough to make it grow at the rate that I'd like.

So, you say, "Okay, what if I just drop it in an index fund?" You know, that's got an average annualized rate of return between 10 to 12% if I invested in good growth stock mutual funds or if I do just a regular index fund, I'll get that, right? So, I drop it in there and I say, "Okay, I'm going to let that grow." Uh, yeah, I wouldn't suggest putting it there unless you're going to keep it there five years or more, but we're talking investments, right? So, that's across the board.

that's inside of life insurance that has a poor rate of return? Why would I why would I choose something with a lower rate of return if that's the point?

>> So, yeah. So, the the the poor rate of return is what I'm thinking about here.

So, I have investments. I have other, you know, Roths and and other accounts that I'm investing in and I get that poor rate of return piece.

>> Yeah. >> So, my thought here is I could keep it.

Yeah, of course. In a savings and access it when I need it and try to replenish it. I'm probably not going to be able to replenish it as fast to $10,000. So,

that's why I was considering is there a place to access money as I need it, but still keep it there as accessible. And >> yeah, you want to borrow it as as debt,

>> right? Right. as my own debt.

>> And I'm saying why why are we having to do that? Why are we having to make things complex >> if es especially if you're not saying

Jade here's what I need the money for?

You don't even have an idea of what you're going to use the money for.

>> So why are we making it complex in that way? >> So the idea is that I'll always So right now I am consulting.

So, I'm I'm building a business and so

there's not kind of, you know, that that constant consistent income.

>> Are you doing that full-time or do you have a full-time job? >> Full time. >> And how much are you making?

>> 100,000. >> Oh, nice. >> As a base and growing job >> and growing from there. And >> what kind of business is it? What kind of consulting?

>> Energy consulting. >> Very cool. How where did this whole life idea even come into your brain? because this feels like something somebody sold you on like a friend called you up.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, no, I've considered it uh before, but I wanted to get more thoughts on it outside of just kind writing it off. So, I want to get more thoughts on understanding because it's not that I want to invest in it for as an investment. So, I get that it's not going to be, you know, an investment case, but being able to access my own

money and then pay and then build it as my own bank. So, I've done, you know, zero interest credit cards. I've moved money as I needed it responsibly and I've kept my credit score above 700. So I've I've operated responsibly with my money, but I'm saying is there a vehicle I can use that allows me to access it as

I need it as I grow my business.

>> Yeah, we've told you Marcus and here's here's the thing. You are playing you're playing a different game. You're in the the financial maze rat race of going I have a good credit score. I can borrow money. I do the 0% cards. I've just never met somebody who is wealthy and successful who plays all of this game.

And wealthy people just have their own bank in the ter in the in the way of savings. So just build up an emergency fund and if you need money outside of that, you can build up a syncing fund with your amazing income. And so I don't think you need to play a scenario out where you need to borrow from yourself and pay yourself back with interest for some kind of benefit.

>> Yeah. So you said the what's the other one that you said a savings because I thought about this as well. You know the s just have a savings and you know build it up that way but you said another syncing fund. Was that >> so high yield savings account is great for liquid money you might need in the next couple of years right? So that's going to be your emergency fund you're saving up for a car whatever it may be.

Anything that's beyond four, fiveyear timeline or horizon, you could invest.

Now, you could invest in retirement. And if you want to access it earlier, you can invest outside of retirement just using an index fund in a brokerage account, but you don't need to do that through an insurance policy. It's the most expensive and stupid way to do it.

And the only people who advocate for it are the people who sell it. >> And you're limited on what you can invest in.

>> So, that's what I was trying to get at. Who who talked you into this? Cuz this is not something that's common sense.

Common sense would say have a savings account if you need money. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I wouldn't necessarily I've been talked into it.

This is me exploring it. I've looked at, you know, I want to I wanted to hear it out. And so this is this is the opinion that I'm looking for is is is what are the, you know, the supports cuz the three that I've heard from your show is, you know, you're losing money the first three years. I get that.

And then lower death benefit for dollar and then the low return on investment. So the the those I get that. >> Do you have life insurance right now at all? Yeah, he has term.

>> I don't I thought you did. >> You said you were looking at >> the one that I'm looking at. I'm setting up that in the process of >> insurance is made for one thing to protect your income. That is the reason for life insurance.

We don't use it as an investment. I would get term life today. I would stop fooling with it cuz if something happens to you tomorrow, your family's in a real lurch, man. Get it today.

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All

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right, Jade, let's talk about real estate. Do it. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. With all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So, let's make the trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426 grand, a typical season shift as we head into the fall. So, buyers have more options and negotiating power. Sellers may face more competition. And maybe in your area, the houses could be sitting a little longer.

Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5 and a half% in September, giving some buyers breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when you hope rates drop. That's called timing the market and it's risky. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Joe is in Minneapolis. Joe, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> Great. Better than I deserve. I love it.

That's what we like to hear.

>> What's up? >> Yeah. So, I um I was wondering I'm in

baby step, too. Um and I was wondering if I can go on a trip like a like a trip for Christmas to see family um living I

got family in Hawaii. Um and it's I don't know if I'd call it vacation. I mean, it kind of is, but it's like also like just to visit family. I mean, my mom lives out there, so and my my nephews and nieces. Um, >> that's my main question. >> It's just you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm a single single guy.

So, >> what's it cost to go?

>> I'm thinking like I've seen tickets like I've gotten tickets uh for like 500 round trip, but around that time probably be like maybe 7800. Um, so I'm

thinking like cap the trip at like a grand. >> Um, and I've been Ubering uh on the

side. Mhm. >> Uh during the day I work as a quality engineer. Um I make I make make 90 but I

got like 20 some thousand in debt but I've been on the side to like kind of like >> get out of that faster.

>> Um >> what are you making from that >> six eight months?

>> Um well I've been trying to figure that out. I I'm I'm thinking like 300 in my pocket a

week is like a good target, but then I'm trying to hit like 500 a week if I can

to like >> get my uh baby step two and three done by next May. But I'll definitely get out of debt by next May, though. So, >> I mean, so you're you're Did I hear you say you're earning 90,000 from your day job?

>> Yeah. >> And the debt is 20,000?

>> Like 23? Yeah. >> 23. I I I feel like you could go faster

than that, but maybe And it's just you.

What's your When you get your check every single month, how much is it?

>> Um, it's like after my I guess my

benefit stuff, it's like 20

uh 20 25 >> 25 >> per check. So, it's five grand a month.

>> Are you investing?

>> No.

I think like it's like close couple hundred goes to uh to like benefit stuff or insurance or whatever, but >> uh it's I think it's like across the year it's like uh 2,600 per check.

>> Okay. >> The whole year. >> And then um Okay, great. And then you

did the $300 per week. How much do you pay for rent?

>> I feel like a lot. I pay like 15,600

for rent utilities. So >> Okay. Are you on a budget?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to kill things in my spending so that I can be like not Ramsayish, but like really doing this. Um, so I I'm like

>> I feel like I sort of like probably got a failing grade the last couple months, but this month I feel like I'm more like on track like serious about like not

just kind of doing it. So, uh, you know,

doing it. >> That's what I was going to ask. When did you start I what I'm trying to understand is how serious you are about this. Did you just get serious this month and you're like, "All right, I'm doing it." Or have you been kind of lolly gagging for like six months and now you're finally like, "Okay, I'm doing it." Because here's here's where I'm struggling.

And George, you can chime in. On the one hand, I'm like, you're here all by yourself. I'm not going to tell you to spend Christmas alone. I kind of feel bad about that.

Um, >> but I am interested in your demeanor on this debt and what your patterns have been and I if if a pattern of yours has

been I'm going to get serious about my debt and then something that looks good to you comes up and you stop and you take your foot off the gas. If that's a pattern for you, I don't want to say yes to that.

>> Yeah. Like it it it's like there's a lot of tempting things like like my friends my friend is just always like they just like come out of the woodwork. I'm like, I didn't know all these friends I want to go out to eat all the time, you know? So, >> do you have friends locally that you can spend Christmas with that you would love to spend Christmas with?

>> Um, I mean, I have a lot of church friends, but like a lot of them are older than me because and which I think is pretty cool because they're pretty wise folks, but >> I mean uh I mean I don't know if I'll hang like spend Christmas with them or nothing, but I got a lot of church friends and community though. Do do you have anybody Do you know anybody who's done this Ramsey plan that you're close to?

>> Um, no I haven't. I haven't found

anybody. >> And how old are you, Joe? >> I know maybe one guy at church that um

I'm I'm 30. >> You're 30? Okay.

>> Yeah, >> man. I'm on I'm on the fence here. I'm not super convinced that this is like a one and done. I think this is one of many things that are going to trip you up on this debtfree journey and you make a lot of money.

>> I'm just I just feel like I would be okay with you missing one Christmas.

We're not saying never have fun again, but if you didn't go I've I've done this here where I was an orphan one Christmas and some friends here said, "Hey, just come over for a Christmas dinner." And I go hang with them and that way I'm not alone and I also didn't blow a thousand bucks to go, you know, on a on a vacation. I also listen people are going

to we sound like the biggest Scrooges. I also I'm going to tell you what else is starting to play into my my thoughts here. If you were like and I'm not saying that this is a great idea. If you were like 23, I'd be like, "Oh man, this guy's got to go home for Christmas, but I'm like you're 30. You're kind of in your own life. You don't >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you Have you missed a Christmas yet?" Like, are you a I go home for Christmas every single year, no matter what?

>> No. No. I mean, I um I really want to

honestly like a big part is I want to go see my nephews and nieces and there's like multiple of them that are like like five and younger and they're just like so much fun and like >> when was the last time you saw him? >> Oh, Uncle >> and they're like uh I've seen them I seen them like uh I think I seen them >> I think recently. I can't crap. My my memor is terrible, but I think like this year.

>> Okay. >> Well, here's my thing.

>> Yeah, I was kind of thinking about that.

>> So that's my heart behind it. It's not so Joe has a a sad Christmas. It's so Joe gets debtree faster and then does this thing completely debtree with no guilt, no shame, no debt to come back to and you're a free man come summertime.

And then you could spend three weeks there. >> Yeah. >> Have a great time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I've done that a few times.

It's pretty pretty nice. And >> Yeah. Because the longer you stay in Hawaii, the more money you spend. I'm guessing it's like 150 bucks a day just to live in Hawaii. You just leave the house and spend that. >> I I I would even Or let me do Let me add this one to the mix. It's October,

so you have two months and a week. I

would give yourself a challenge since you're driving Uber, too. I'd say I have to have X amount of dollars of debt paid off if I'm going to take this trip.

>> I have to have I like the compromise.

>> I have to have uh 12, you know, let's

see, your rent is 1,600. Uh I I try to

replace my rent >> and side hustles.

>> That's what I try to do.

>> And I would say, okay, that's the goal.

Do you see what I'm saying? Then you're you're getting the both the best of both worlds. So, you're getting to be there with your family for Christmas, but you're also really going hard and you're giving yourself a clear goal so that you're not kind of like, I get to go. I can kind of pull my foot off gas. I would do that. I would challenge yourself to have like, I don't know, the

majority of this paid off. I would go crazy. I'd be like, I'm going to pay off like 12 or $15,000 of this debt really,

really fast. I'm going to My goal is put $5,000 on it November, $5,000 in December, and then another 2,000.

>> Do it. I like this plan, Joe. I like the compromise. I just I think we just wanted to feel some fire from Joe.

>> Just get crazy with it. >> Just not hot enough. It's just lukewarm right now and looking for the next trip.

But uh I'm rooting for you, man. Let us know if you end up going. We want to know where are they now. >> Mhm.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. On the debt-free stage, we have the pleasure of speaking with Jeff and Danielle. How are you guys? >> We're great. >> We're doing great. >> Thanks for making the trip to be here. Where are you from? >> Tucson, Arizona. >> Thanks for having us. >> Lovely. Okay. How much debt did you pay off? >> $329,000.

>> Wow. >> That'll do. And how long did that take?

>> Uh about 12 years. >> 12 years. >> Wow. Quite the journey. And what was the range of income over 12 years? >> Uh we started at 155 and last year was 327. >> Wow. Nice jump. What do you guys do for work? I'm a pilot. I work for a big company out in Memphis with a bunch of purple tails. >> Oh, yeah. I've seen those. And uh previous Sorry. And I'm an office manager for a concierge physician's office. >> Okay. >> Awesome. >> I'm getting a sense here about this 329.

>> I like it. Okay. Tell us what kind of debt was the 329. >> Now 33,000 was our truck, which we still have >> and uh the rest was our house.

>> I knew it. I knew it.

>> So almost 300 grand on that mortgage.

And did you guys just plow through the truck and then go, you know what, we're pretty good at this debt payoff thing. What if we just kept going? What was this journey like? >> We had a lot of life between, you know, 12 years. We uh financed with their scholarships and their hard work. Three kids through college, debtree. >> Oh my goodness. Yeah. >> All useful degrees.

>> You raised some great kids along the way. That's that's no easy feat.

>> Yeah. We just kept rolling, walking through the baby steps. >> What got you connected to the Ramsay plan? Well, about five years before we

actually started the plan, um I brought the idea to Jeff and at that time I was a stay-at-home mom and our income just

perhaps didn't support it in his eyes.

So, um I think his suggestion was we should just stop buying stuff and uh >> it's a good suggestion. >> Five years later, it um he came to me with the idea. >> So, then it was right. >> Wow. >> Then it was the right time. >> So, this was like early 2000s.

>> Uh probably. Yeah. Like maybe 2008 or so

the first time I brought it up. Yeah.

>> You've heard of you've heard of dinks, right? Dual income.

>> We were oinks, one income, numerous kids. >> Oh my goodness. So you were you were feeling the stress. You heard about Dave. And then 5 years into this thing, you go, I think we know what we need to do. >> Yeah. You know what our big problem is?

We we we've been in our house a long time, so it was appreciating. So we kept refinancing it. >> You know, we bought the American way. We bought a rental property, you know, and vehicles.

And we did put in a really nice pool and a yard. >> You know, our house isn't like the gathering place for our our family. So, >> that's awesome. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Wow. And so, what was the what was the journey like when you got started? Was it a hard shift?

>> Um, we moved through uh two and three relatively quickly. And then we were on track to pay it off by my 60th birthday, which is about a year and a half. And fortunately, my parents uh just passed away in May and June.

>> Kick it over the edge. Yeah. So, how much of this was the inheritance that helped you finish? >> Uh, just 64,000 or so. Was it, you know,

like I said, we were on track to do it in about a year and a half from now. >> Wow. Well, sorry for your loss, but what a what a legacy to leave.

>> 93 years old. >> It's like they were looking down going, "We got you. We're proud of you." >> Y, how's it feel?

>> Kind of kind of unreal still. Um, >> it's only been a couple months. Yeah, >> we're still trying to get used to, you know, >> not having a house payment and >> all that money sitting in the checking account. >> What do we do with that?

>> It's a good problem to have. I'm sure the kids are like, I think we have some ideas. We got some trips we'd love for you to take us on. >> Yeah.

Are you going to do anything to celebrate? >> Yeah.

>> It does, man. >> So, uh when it starts getting hot in 27, we're going to get a newer camper and we're going to go north to Idaho, across to Maine, and then down the east coast and back home. hit all the states that I've never been in. So, >> yeah.

So, I'll still be going to work, you know, I'll I'll jump seat to work from wherever she's at and >> Sure. >> she'll hang out and volunteer at the Humane Society or >> or go see the kids or whatever. >> And I have a sinking fund going to um go to dog training school. >> Oh, wow.

That's one of my passions. So, when I can hang up the full-time job, that's my place. >> The encore career. Can you train my French bulldogs?

>> I will do. You could be >> You can You're like Caesar Milan in my book.

>> You guys are an inspiration. Were the kids watching this whole time? cuz you got grown kids seeing this journey. Was that weird to bring them into it?

>> Well, they were they were in high school, you know, when we started. So, >> and they've been uh Yeah, they I mean Dave Ramsey might be a swear word and invoke an eye roll around our house for time. >> Do they take to it like are they like, "Hey, we want to live debtree now." Or are they like, "Gh, gross." No, they're all on board. >> Well, they're here now, so it would be awkward if they're used cars and everything. Yeah. >> Wow. Wow. >> And how old are the kids?

>> Our oldest is 26. He's married and in the Air Force, so he couldn't be here.

Um, then our next son is Andrew. He's 25 and our daughter is 21.

>> Wow. >> Way to go. >> And they're looking at their parents like, "That's pretty cool that my parents did this." >> Well, many Americans out there hang on to their mortgages until they're dying breath and then leave their kids with a mess to deal with. And >> oh my goodness.

>> Was anyone around you doing any sort of plan like this or were you kind of on an island? >> Um, we were each supported each other, but we hosted FPU. That's when we went through it at our house with some family and neighbors from church and then I I hosted it at uh I used to work for the Department of Homeland Security.

>> Holy smokes. That's awesome. >> Yeah, it was good. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what's the house worth?

>> 600,000. >> Woo. And what do you guys have in like the retirement nest eggs combined? Go ahead. >> 1.7. >> Hey. Okay. Way to go.

>> Okay. So, well beyond Baby Steps Millionaires. You guys were there a long time ago. Yeah.

Yeah. >> But now this just adds to it with no payment. >> So, what's the baby step uh look like for you guys? What are you looking forward to doing across spending, saving, giving?

>> All the above. >> Yes. >> Um uh I'm going to build an airplane in my garage. >> So, I've got the wing kit or it comes in kits.

I've got >> How big is your garage? >> It's a good size garage.

>> That's exciting. So, she's going to be dog training. You're going to be building airplanes >> and and we hope to be real generous with our grandkids in terms of their education when that time comes.

>> Oh, that's fantastic.

>> Well, you guys are who I want to be when I grow up. >> Very inspired by your story. What would you tell people the key to becoming debtree is?

>> Eye on the prize. >> Yeah. >> It just it can be a long journey as you see. It took us 12 years. I think most of your families pay off their mortgage in about seven, but >> we started the path just in time to help kids get through school and and life happens. So, I would say give yourself a little bit of grace, too, because there are going to be bumps in the road. Just rely on your partner >> and stick with the plan.

>> You know, the plan works, you know.

>> Wow, that's fantastic. Well, I'm honored you guys decided to join us today. We've got some parting gifts for you. Two every dollar premium subscription. So, you can use those. You can give them to maybe one of the kids who's on the journey. >> Uh it's up to you what you do with that.

Okay. Thank you. >> As our way of saying thank you for being out here. Awesome. >> All right. I'm excited for this one. You guys ready? >> I think we're ready. >> All right. It's Jeff and Danielle.

$329,000 paid off the truck. And then they kept plowing through the mortgage in 12 years, making 155 all the way up to $327,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

W.

>> Oh, that warms my heart.

>> Never gets old. >> Yeah, that's awesome. >> And I love awesome. >> I love that this is a couple who went, "Hey, this isn't going to happen tomorrow, but if we're just focused on this goal, it's going to happen within a decade.

We're going to be around in a decade. So, do we want to be debtree or do we want to keep refinancing as the offers keep coming in, we can get a bigger line of credit on the house?" Like all of it's crazy how much will come at you >> during the steps on the financial journey of people trying to come at your money and come at your equity and move you backwards. Yes.

>> That's right. That's right. And that eventually that's exactly what they did.

I mean consider the fact that the average American mortgage is a 30-year mortgage and then we say, "Hey, be different. Get a 15-year." And then to still turn around and pay that off in 12, I think is >> I think that's great. I think if you can pay off a mortgage in 12 years, that is a win in life. That is a win in my book.

And all it takes is you doing a little bit, just a little bit extra, right?

This is not you being intense intense.

This is just intentionality. I have it a little bit of extra money. I'm going to throw it on here. Maybe it's an extra half payment. Maybe it's an extra full payment. Maybe it's once a quarter.

Maybe it's every month. You get to decide what that looks like. And before you know it, you're standing where they are. >> Yeah.

If you're in their shoes, you're in that 456 territory. I encourage you guys jump on ramsolutions.com. Use our mortgage payoff calculator. We'll put it in the show notes.

And you'll be shocked at how just an extra payment a year makes a difference. How much interest it saves you, how much closer it gets you to freedom. And then what I found is it gets addictive. And you go, what if we did two payments?

What if we did a,000 extra a month? What could that do?

And that level of focus gets you debtree really fast. Baby steppers do it on average in about seven years. And the average millionaire on our millionaire study, 10 years. >> Wow. So let that be your your goal post to go can I do this within 7 to 10 years can we be completely debtree and again if you give yourself some grace maybe it takes 11 or 12 you're still so far ahead of the game >> still a win >> you can do this guys and they're living proof [Music]

Our

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scripture of the day, Hebrews 10:34.

Let's keep a firm grip on the promises that keep us going. He always keeps his word. >> Norman Vincent Peele said, "Promises are like crying babies in a theater. They should be carried out at once." >> Hey, >> wow.

Uh, listen, >> I love that. >> Well, as a guy with a newborn in the house, let me tell you that that really speaks to me right now. >> I love that quote.

>> I can't really carry him out cuz I'm with him, you know. I do the AirPods trick though. I got noise cancellation on to keep my cortisol levels low.

>> Okay. >> When they're just I'm just like, >> you know what I do when I go on on flights? If I see that there's a mom with a baby, I'll sit next to them because I >> You're an angel. >> Well, because it's like I'm used to it.

It doesn't bother me. Yeah.

God bless. Jade's just a better person than all of us. I'm like, "How many rows can I get away from the baby?" >> No, I'll try to be nice because it it's it's not fun when you're the one with the screaming baby and you're sitting next to somebody who's so annoyed and they're so mad and you're like, I'm doing the best I can here. >> Yeah.

I'll take that over a toddler though cuz they'll be kicking that seat and I'm like, >> toddler? Yeah.

Don't be kicking my seat. All right, let's go to James in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hey, what's going on, James?

>> Oh, not much. How are you doing?

>> Better than we deserve, my friend. How can we help?

>> I'm calling uh on behalf of my parents.

My parents recently asked me to attend their financial advisor meeting with them and I'm not sure. I've been

listening to Dave Ramsey for a while and it doesn't seem like it's what Dave would recommend or what you guys would recommend. So they're they're roughly right at like half a million dollars or $475,000 and a third of that is in a annuity fund

that will once they start retire that

will start paying out x number of dollars like 10 grand or something a year. >> Yep.

>> What kind of annuity is it? Do you know?

>> Uh it's with I don't know if I can say the name. >> I mean is it like a fixed annuity, variable index? There's all kinds of types.

Yeah, I I have no no idea. I assume it's growing value of some sort. Like the the

cash value is much like 156 of it is

cash value. They pulled it out and there's like 220ome actual value in it.

>> Okay. >> I don't know if >> well in general we are not a fan of annuities. They may have a time and place. I can tell you Dave Ramsey has zero annuities. Uh they make sense for very few people. And the issue, one of

the biggest issues I have with them is they're they're expensive. They make the advisers a whole lot of money. And so that's my only fear. I'm not saying they're a bad person. They may have a reason to do this, but I have a lot my red flags go up. My spidey senses start tingling when I hear that someone's getting pushed into annuities.

Did your parents want this for a reason?

Like are they scared of market risks?

Because that's usually who's who this is for.

>> Yeah. I think I don't know that they're necessarily scared of market risk. It's more they want to be able to sustain through through their retirement.

>> Okay.

>> My mom's 62. She's not planning on retiring today. Like she's going to work a few more years and retire, but like

they want to move the whole thing into this. And it just doesn't seem it's like you have enough money in my eyes to to sustain off interest >> because they live a super super uh

within their means lifestyle.

>> Yeah. Are they in baby step seven with a paid for house? No debt.

>> Correct. Yep. >> Okay. >> James, how's your how's your financial situation?

>> Uh my wife and I are in baby step two.

We're we basically have a truck to pay off yet and that's it. So, I I love that you you're going with them on this and that they invited you to go to this meeting. Um, I would

the hard part about this is you're not where they're at yet and to offer advice in that area could could be tough unless they're asking you, James, what do you think we should do? Um, are they >> they Yes, they they definitely asked me

for advice. They asked me to come along because I've been ranting and raving to them about you guys for the past two years and how I'm excited to get debt free or my wife and I are excited to be debt free and >> and they're like well we they really weren't involved in their investment. I feel like they they received some money from my grandma when she passed and they just kind of >> took the financial advisor's word for it and said just here here's the money type. >> So if you suggested and said hey you know I came with you guys here's what I heard.

from Ramsey to get a second opinion.

This is the the people I've been getting advice from that I've been telling you about. Do you think that they would do that?

>> Yeah. And I I already recommended that to them. I said, I >> I I want to sit down with someone else.

Like I don't >> And what they say, >> not that I don't trust your advisor, but I want to get someone else's opinion type thing. >> What' they say to that?

>> And and my mom's my mom's all for it. So my my dad's not in the best health, so he's not fully fully involved with >> leaving to go meet with people, stuff like that. So >> yeah. >> So you you know, if she's open to it,

you set her up with the smart vetor, maybe you sit in on that conversation, too, if your dad's not able to sit in.

And I think that's where you take it from there. The great news is that they're open, which I think is wonderful. maybe a little too open with the other adviser, but >> yeah, I think they need to we always say don't invest in anything you don't understand. And so until they fully understand it, and I would not just trust the advisor's explanation because they're clearly going to do a good job selling them on it.

>> But I'll tell you this, fixed annuities, if that's what they're in, barely keep up with inflation. If it's variable annuities, it's one of the most expensive and complicated financial products out there. And then indexed annuities is another form.

But the key here is with that one subpar returns and super high fees and those are that's always my concern when you're trying to mix this insurance product with investment. Um so not to say there isn't a time or place for it. If they really want the guaranteed returns or the estate planning benefits and they're in baby step 7 and they have amassed a serious amount of wealth, maybe it's an option if they're super spooked by the market. I don't think that's the case here.

And so my my your Spidey senses are right. I would get a second opinion and try to advise them against this.

>> I I do not. No. I I literally got sat

down with their adviser like two weeks ago. This is the first time they actually left me into their finances or brought me into the loop and asked for my opinion on things. >> Well, that means there they also had a little bit of a red flag. >> That's right.

And so if you if you want to see them retire with dignity, I would stay away from this annuity based on what you've told me and you can jump on ramiesolutions.com and get connected with a smartvester pro that can give you that second opinion. But you're a good son, man. >> Or at the very least just leaving it as, you know, leaving it as >> broken, you know, don't fix it.

>> Yeah. If it's not already in the annuity, >> good mutual funds and all that and good, you know, equities and I wouldn't mess with it. But Diane is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Diane?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love you guys. I've started listening to the Ramsay show about six months ago. My son actually got me hooked up with you guys and um you guys ask a lot of times about people's net worth and I understand the concept of you know assets minus liabilities, but I'm a retired police officer and I

receive a defined benefits pension and so I didn't know if that should be considered as an asset and if so how to quantify it. M you know there are some

fancy complex calculations you can do to kind of find the present and future value of your pension. So that might be one way to do it. The other way is just to figure out what is the actual cash value today.

>> Is there a lump sum? If you took a lump sum, what would it be?

>> There isn't there isn't that option.

>> Okay. So you can go online and use a pension calculator and find out what the value actually is and you can add that to your net worth. Um, the net worth is one indicator of how well you're doing financially. It doesn't present the whole picture.

And so, you can add in what you've put into the pension as a way to calculate it into your net worth and use that. >> Um, but there's no simple way to say, well, my pension is, you know, 4,000 a month and so it's going to be X added to my net worth. >> Okay?

But you can use calculations to get you an idea. The key is, are you going to be able to retire with dignity based on the income streams you have from your investments plus pension?

>> Yes, I'm currently working now. I have an encore career now. Um, and that has a

401k that I've been putting 15% into.

And between my pension and my um

investments, I I think I'm going to be fine. >> Yeah. What's your net worth without the pension?

>> 640. >> Awesome. And you still got a ways to go in the workforce?

about five years. >> Awesome. >> You're doing great, Diane. >> Yeah, I'd keep climbing. If you can get that net worth and nest egg to a million bucks plus a pension, I think we're in good shape, Diane. And you can get connected with the Smart Investor Pro to help you calculate that as well. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 98. It’s Time to Go Scorched Earth on Your Debt | February 3, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:46:46 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls all hour about your life and money. We have Jim who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Jim.

>> Hey Jade. Hey Rachel. How are y'all >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> Hey. I've got kind of a weird situation that I want y'all's help navigating. Uh

I received a um a large gift of silver

from a family member and it was kind of given to me under the pretext of hey I really want you to hold on to this. I think this will increase in value. I told them that we're working baby step two and they would be like, "Oh, this is awesome. It's actually going to cover in the rest of our credit card debt, but they really want us to hold on to it." Um, and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate the situation.

>> Is it like hold it for safekeeping or it's a gift, but we don't want you to cash it in just yet? What which is it?

>> Yeah, it was more like it's a gift, we don't want you to cash it in. We think it's going to exponentially go up in value. Um, and you know, it's funny. I listened to Dave talk about, you know, not to collect rocks.

>> Well, when did they when did they say you could cash it in?

>> Um, there wasn't there was really it it

it was a it was a grandparent. So, it was really a you can hold on to this.

Um, or you can do what you want. But there was sort of a uh >> strings attached to a degree.

>> Yeah. >> Which is funny because about two days ago, silver went >> in the tank. I don't know if you I actually had a friend I was debating about with silver >> and then he texted >> he's like, "Well, not a good day for my argument." And I was like, "No, it's not. It went down." >> Um, >> well, okay. So, >> yeah. So, I I do think, you know, having

a gift with strings attached is not fair to the person receiving it because it's not really a gift at that point. there's an expectation and and I appreciate

their sentiment and I'm just wondering I mean I kind of think Jim honestly I think you're an adult and so I think you were given something and you and your

wife are you married did you say you're married? >> I am. Yeah. >> Yeah.

that you guys make a decision on on how you think it would be best used and you know is it best to to keep it because you never know or you know whatever this grandparent's saying >> or for right now in your life like this is what we're working towards to create financial stability which is ultimately what this grandparent's wanting for y'all is financial stability because they think that this is going to you know become something. Um, so yeah, at the end of the day, Jim, I mean, and I feel like it sounds harsh, but I'm like I I think that, you know, you you're an adult.

You were given a gift, and I think you guys use it as best as you best see it. What you could do is you could let the grandparents know and say, "Hey, I know that it's your desire for us to keep this. For us, it'd be better used if we sold it." Um, so if that changes whether or not you want to give it to us or not, like we're like you could put that on the table and say, "Hey, if you'd like to basically revoke your gift back knowing what we'll do with it, we'll be fine with that.

But we wanted to be upfront with that with you that we're going to we would sell it and see what they say." >> Yeah.

above board, I mean, you're fine to do what you want now, but if you really wanted to take it to the next level, >> you could give them that option.

>> The the only thing, and I don't know if this changes at all for y'all, it really only affects my baby step two by like a

month and a half to two months. How much is it worth?

>> It's It's worth about $8,000. I'm We're chucking about 6,000 a month towards credit cards and consumer debt right now. So, Um, yeah. Well, you know, got to get out of it quick. >> I know. It was good. That's amazing.

>> Yeah. Well, >> yeah. So, the the time thing again, if you if you weigh out what it's going to do to a relationship that if you really think it's going to harm something, you're like, it's not worth it. And so, for a month and a half of our sacrifice, we'll sacrifice an extra month and a half to keep this thing.

And and this sounds horrible too, Jim, but when you know this person passes, you know, and you guys look up in 10 years, I'm like, "All right, we did this to honor to honor Nana, but we are ready to let this go." Um, you know, it's not the end of the to your point, it's not going to change your life either way. It's just a principle of we're going to put our efforts and our money and our time and energy into things that we think are actually going to be worth it in the long run financially and and this commodity is not.

So, you know, >> um >> Oh, thank you. That's a good It's a good question. I mean, we know gifts should be given and for anybody who's thinking about giving a gift out there, if you're going to give a gift, give a gift. And it's okay.

I think if it's something that's like um estate planning, like a will or something like that, to have certain uh stipulations on something like that, uh that makes sense.

from a moral perspective or something like I don't want to harm my kids if they're, you know, be misbehaving in life and then I don't want to hand them a bunch of money >> because that could magnify it, you know, the things around that. But just this like kind of nitpicky, hey, I want you to do this, not that. It's like giving someone a whole life insurance policy and being like, I don't want you to cash it out. And you're like, yeah, but this is not a smart investment, >> right?

Or even the idea of, I don't know, a family member, let's say a family member struggling and you want to help with their rent, so you're not giving them cash, but you're like, I I will pay your rent for you. I just feel like there's >> it is a interesting line to walk there, Jim.

kind of more on the side of you should be able to do what you want with this.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Thank you for the call. All right.

Jessica's in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Hi, Jessica.

Hello. Can you hear me? >> We can. What's up? >> Okay. Hello. So, uh, to sum up, we are

putting our house on the market next month, and we, our plan is to eliminate

a mortgage by downsizing.

Um, if we can buy a home in the $350 to

$400,000 range, we will eliminate a mortgage and all of our debt and it will

give us the opportunity for me to

homeschool my kids if we do that.

>> Wow. What What home the home you're in currently? Um, what equity is in it?

>> So, we are putting our house on the market at about 680,000.

is on 15 acres.

>> Um, so our big downsize would be in

land, not necessarily home size.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. What will you make on the sale? What will you pocket?

>> So, we will pocket about 420,000

after closing costs and uh taking away

the mortgage, which is at about 215,000.

Um, so if we bought a home in the 350

to 400 range, um, >> we would have 17,000 in like education

debt slashcredit that it's all one.

>> Um, >> and so we would take that and pay that completely off. And then so we would kind of do and we already have about

75,000 in a brokerage account.

>> Great. >> That we use as our emergency fund.

>> So what's the question?

>> Um I guess if uh our head is in the

right place of doing this because it's kind of going out of order of the baby steps. Um but it would >> because you're in what way?

>> Um because we're paying off our home early. >> Oh. just kind of babysit.

>> Yeah. Well, what I would say is if you do this, obviously you're clearing your debt, >> I would uh save some money aside for a 3 to 6 months uh emergency fund, but other than that, that's it. And it really feels like it's in that brokerage account. Just pulling that out and having since it's not retirement, having some of that liquid, I think, is where you're going to want to do there.

>> Yeah. And Jessica, I I would not sell a home for $20,000 of consumer debt. So, if there's a bigger reason why, like what you said that you eliminate a mortgage so that you can homeschool your kids and stay home, that makes sense to me. But I would not make this move for 20,000 for $20,000 of consumer debt.

So, if there's a bigger reason why, which I think you said there is, then that's great. Yep. And you're not out of order necessarily. I think you're Yeah, you guys are doing awesome.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go. Charlie in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Charlie. What's going on?

>> Can you hear me? >> I can.

>> All right. Thanks for having me on today. And uh I guess uh I may have kind

of a complex question, but we'll just dive in and see what details are needed.

>> Sounds good. >> So I'm calling on behalf of my wife and I and uh we're in baby step number two.

We've been in it for a couple years now.

Um we started $254,000 worth of debt.

We're down to 145. Um but on our

snowball, our next loan is kind of a

sticky situation. So my wife, her last year of undergrad and all four years of my brother-in-law's college are consolidated into one parent

plus loan. >> Okay. >> And so we our portion of that loan,

>> it wasn't really done, right? But this is before we found Ramsay and this is all before we even got married. Um, but they consolidated it and it was like, okay, and here's your like they they took it since it was four years of his college and one year of hers. They just took the payment, divided it by five, and that's what we pay. So we pay 211 per month. >> Yeah. >> And so our we have our original balance

for my wife's loan was 25,000. That's interest included. And so we had that cash saved up, but the problem is

my mother-in-law, I think, but no, no, I don't think they're they're trying to do the PSLF program >> and get it all forgiven. And there's still like >> there's still like seven years left of that. And so we don't want that. we have the cash to get out.

Now, the problem is is that they depend on our 211 per month to make the payment. >> And I guess my question today is probably more of a relational question of how cuz you know, it's my mom or my wife's mom. So, you know, we're going to have her talk to them because I don't want to be the me son-in-law. >> Smart.

on what are some tips or something.

Maybe my wife can talk to her mom about this maybe >> because the loan is in the is in the mother's name. Correct. Your wife's name is nowhere attached to this to this loan, right? So there's Okay. >> Yeah. We we've we we double triple check and Yes. And u morally they they spit

shake that we would pay it off >> sometime and you have the money, the 25,000. The longer this loan sticks around obviously the more interest it gains. So for you it is smart to say hey if we have the money now let's knock it out. You can give them the 25,000 that you owe. It's up to them if they want to

siphon that out $211 a month or whatever that is or whatever they want to do. But what you do need to do is make sure that the same way it was a spit shake before

that you get in writing and just say, "Hey, we're giving you the entire balance of what we owe as of, you know,

February 2nd, 2026." Um, and that way no

one can come back to it and say, "Hey," and then you give it to him and say, "Hey, if you guys want to do this loan forgiveness, that's fine. But any interest that occurs, that's up to you.

We're ready to be out of this today." And I love the idea that he's that you'll be the one uh that your wife will be the one talking to the mother-in-law.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's exactly what I was going to say, Charlie, is I would sit down with them, have a check, and the writing thing is so smart. It's going to probably feel really weird, and her mom's going to be like, "This is so what are you doing?" But it's like no, I'm just going to have the date the balance of what is and then tell the mom like and hey mom listen >> I just warning that sometimes these programs not do not go the way you think it's going to go and if it's not paid off this is what the interest will be but we are not going to be on the hook for it because if it was our loan today we would be paying it off like I would overcommunicate it have it in writing >> give them the check and to yeah and to Jade's point if they really want to just keep it then it's like okay you do whatever you want with that 25,000 but we we are done And credit to your wife, too.

We take so many of these calls where there's like some communication when the child is 20 years old, you know, and then you look 15 years down the road and mom doesn't want to pay anymore or daughter's like, "No, it's not really mine." I thought, you know, it's really messy. So, the fact that you guys you guys are >> definitely above board in the sense of like you are keeping your end of the deal, you know, flawlessly. It's amazing.

>> Let's sign this together just so it's said out loud. Um, and thank you, mom.

Love you. >> And I'd even I'd even frame it up like the whole thing of getting it in writing. And by the way, I'd take screenshots of the balance and everything. Just everything. And the way I'd frame it up is, hey, you know, I don't know about you, but sometimes over time I can just forget details. And this is just for all of us. as opposed to a

I'm doing this to hold you accountable, right? Just the idea. Everybody forgets

what the balance was 2 years later.

Nobody's going to remember the exact dollars and cents. No one's going to remember exactly what was said. So, it's just an idea of we all forget details.

It's easy for this to get muddy for me for me to remember. I'd like to do this.

And that way, you're kind of putting all the onus on you and not being um just

you're not indicting them anyway. >> Yeah. pointing the finger at them. How will that how would that conversation go knowing your mother-in-law and her relationship with your wife? Like what we just laid out, how how do you see that going?

>> Well, that's the the worst part about it is that I mean I was fixing to have a follow-up question. And this might be passive aggressive, but I was wondering, you know, getting it in writing. Would do y'all think it would be okay to like get a cashier's check and get it put in the memo? Maybe.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. And I and and honestly you asked how they would be received. I'll be honest I'm worried that it might not that it'll be bad but it'll catch them off guard just because there's a total different mindset there.

I mean, dead is just a normal way of life for them and all that. Me and my wife, we're f we are first generation Ramsay people. I mean, my side of the family, my wife's side of the family are both the same. And so, we're trying to get out of this where we can, you know, fix our family tree as y'all say.

>> Totally. Yes.

>> So, I'm afraid I'm not going to say it won't be received well, but >> you're going to look weird.

>> Yeah, it's going to be weird. >> Also, because like I said, like they firmly believe that it's going to get forgiven. Like there was a comment even made back in the summer. uh they looked up the loans and whatnot because we live we live six hours apart so we got a vacation together and we met them and they uh the the comment was even said like oh how much is left on that loan cuz we talked about paying off our debts and stuff and uh her mom pulled it up

and was like oh it looks like seven years and the brother was like well it looks like you're in debt for seven more years at least and we're just like uh no not really >> y >> but so I'm not going to say it be bad but just a it's probably gonna be it's gonna have to be like a teaching moment and that's gonna be hard because that's her mom. >> Well, well, I mean, I don't know if you do have to teach it. I think it's just I would keep it. And I know you're not the one talking, >> but yeah, I wouldn't even get into all that.

I would say, hey, you know, I was thinking back to when you pulled up that loan and me and my husband, this is her talking. Me and my husband talked about it. You know, I think we just we're ready to be done with it and we looked at the balance and based on what it is today, I think we're just ready to pay our portion off and we'll give you a cashier's check so you can put it on there. But, you know, and and you're not even talking about them.

you're really not even talking about you. You're just letting them know you want to get out and there's no detriment to them.

think at that point, as long as you know, as long as they understand it's it's at no detriment to them to pay this off, I wouldn't I mean, Rachel, I I wouldn't even get into >> the why >> the why and what you should be doing.

And >> unless they ask, you know, then you can you can elaborate. >> Less is more. Can I dive in? >> Less is more. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Um, >> okay. >> Yep. So, yeah. I hope it goes well though. But yeah, keep it short and sweet. Clear.

>> We always say kindness, you know, >> to be unclear. >> To be unkind. Yep. So, be clear, which

helps with the writing. And I like it.

And I like the whole I like your advice, Jade, on >> Hey, this is for us and for our records and like what we're doing and just so I can remember because I sometimes can forget. You know what I mean? You can put that off a little bit on you. And I think that's fine. >> And it's true. And and it's also true. I mean to remember what the dollars and cents are because what I see happening in that situation is if for some reason

on down the line it doesn't get paid off. It starts to feel overwhelming. It could be easy to think well maybe they didn't pay their whole portion. Maybe I remember it being you know >> and and if you're tied in with a loan with someone else the brother's loan is in there and if he doesn't pay for a year cuz he doesn't have a job or something happens you know what I mean?

Like it just it starts to build. starts to build a lot. So, uh, Charlie, great question. And hey, great for you and your wife.

That's normal. That's what most people do. So, when you come against that and you're kind of at this intersection of like, oh my gosh, we're butting up against normal. It's going to feel weird and it might be a little awkward, but you're going to get through it and then you're going to be fine and I think you won't even think about it 6 months later and it's going to be great. So, I think it's a smart move and yeah, excited for you and your wife.

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So, one of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. And we just heard this from Claire in Winston. Quote, "This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app, and I'm amazed how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3500 extra dollars in margin every month to put towards our debt.

We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back. That's amazing. And you can do this, too. You can take control of your money.

You can change your family tree and live like no one else. Go download our Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Love to hear it. All right, Elizabeth in San Francisco, California is on the line.

>> Hi. Thank you guys so much for having me. >> You bet. How can we help?

>> Um, so my question is, how do I know if I'm heading past Gazelle intensity into

kind of the burnout space as it relates to paying off my debt?

>> Tell us more. or what are you doing that think makes you think you might be going too far?

>> Yeah. Um I first of all I did I never really learned how to budget. Um I'm a medical

doctor so I make good money but I just got out of residency and I I have like about $600,000 worth of student loan debt and plus consumer debt. Um, and

knowing that I don't want to be in this

space of paying debt forever. Like I fully bought into the baby steps. I

believe in the biblical principle. It's just I'm finding that when I get to the end of my paycheck and I'm having to wait 3 weeks because it's kind of a I get paid on the 10th and the 21st. So between the 21st and the 10th, I'm like

scrging around for my last dollars to make it to my next paycheck. Yeah, I know that feeling. >> I'm really Yeah. And so I'm trying to figure out if I'm like paying too much aggressively because I have this goal in my mind of paying off over $100,000 of

consumer debt by December if I'm if I

need to pull back a little and stop being so so extreme.

>> Well, I I'll I'll give you some parameters. Um, something that you said definitely hit home for me and when my husband and I were paying off debt, the feeling of having just a little bit of money in your account, I think that can be good, but are you budgeting a cushion just in case? Like, if you're finding that you're going to the wire and it's causing you to overdraw or it's causing you to not pay minimums on other things, that's a red flag that you're just doing you're just taking every cent and you're not planning for just like a basic cushion.

But if you're if you're telling me like, "No, Jade, I'm not it's not causing me to overdraw.

>> stress and strain. I just don't have I'm just using all of it." I >> I think that's pretty good.

>> Yeah, I I was I was overdrafting a lot

up until October and then I I kind of like I hit rock bottom. My friend's an FPU coach, she was like, "We are going to do this." So now I This is my first month doing my every dollar myself.

>> Good. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay.

>> And you're putting the cushion. What's your cushion amount?

>> Um I would say I don't have a cushion

right now. >> Okay. You need a cushion. I I This is coming This is coming from your friend who has done that and the overdrawing it

because it's inevitable, right? You you budget zerobased budgeting doesn't mean zero dollars in your account. So, if you're budgeting every single dollar towards debt and you're not putting a cushion, it is ine inevitable, Elizabeth, that something will come up, grandma's birthday or just something that you forgot that will come out of your account and overdraft you and then you're like, "Oh, >> that's happening every month." Yes, that's happening every month. >> How much how much money are you putting towards debt?

So right now, um, just like in my

minimums, it's about two grand and then

what I'm paying on top of that is like another two grand. So somewhere around 4 to 5,000 a month. >> Okay. Cuz how much are you bringing in a month?

>> Um, 13 to 14.

>> Okay. >> But I made griefbased decisions like

because of working in an ICU during COVID and getting PTSD. Like I was like, "This has to mean something." And so I'm like standing in a $6,000 a month rent right now >> and just paid off a $5,000 couch. Yeah.

And when I finally hit rock bottom, I was like, "Okay, I've made a lot of good decisions. I'm paying the stupid tax till I get out of this >> like lease up." And

>> yeah, my lease is up in January of next year. >> Okay. So, another year of you kind of

have outearned this the I don't want to

say stupidity, but you know what I mean.

Um the bad purchase.

>> And like I said, luckily you have enough

you're earning a high enough income that you're probably not feeling it the way some others might feel it. But yeah, that's going to make a huge difference when you get back down to 25%.

>> For sure. >> Right. >> Yeah. Have you calculated out because you have $600,000 in debt? You said

>> when you get that When you get that 6,000 a month back in the budget, how quickly are you able to pay this all off? And I'm assuming your income will go up over the next couple years.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, right now, um, my income

goes up about I'm I'm at 320 right now and about 10k a year um is my salary

increase and then I get about a 10k budget once I I just started my job. I'm only four months in, but that's essentially >> okay >> where we're at. I've paid down almost 20k of my of my debt so far.

>> Okay. Okay. Just a question. Um and I'm sure you've run this out, but if you haven't, if you broke the lease, what would the lease, what would it cost you?

>> Oh, it's like 15.

>> 15.

>> Mhm. >> H Well, that's two months of rent.

>> Yeah. >> Versus continuing to pay >> Yeah. 60,000.

>> Yeah. >> I'd probably do that. Just so so should I save the money then to pay off. Okay.

So instead of worrying about paying off my other debt just like Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I would do that because think about it.

If you can find a place that's I don't know 2,000. >> I already have I already have three. I already found like five places. I search like once a week. >> I probably would do that, Elizabeth. Yeah. Versus being stuck in this cuz that's what 66 almost $70,000 a lot

>> that could be going towards this >> over time, you know. Um.

>> Right. >> Yeah. I mean, if you saved 4,500 a month on rent, that's a a killing.

>> Yeah. Okay. Okay.

>> Okay. Great. And I feel like you're motivated. >> You are. >> She's like, I already found three places. I found three places to live in high school. Okay. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Say less. >> Eight years of non-gratification. I can do this. >> Yes, Elizabeth. >> Oh my gosh. Well, you make a great income. You have a crap ton of debt, which I know you feel, but you can.

Yeah, you you can do this. I love this for you. Okay, so we've got a clear plan forward. There's way more margin coming up. I love that. >> Yes. Oh, yeah. I would do that.

>> So, so, so good. Okay.

>> And six grand a month.

>> It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. So, just for anybody who's listening for the first time, whenever we have people ask about their home situation, you don't want it to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And that's not just with mortgages, that's rent as well. Yeah.

And the purpose of that is to make sure that you've got your income at your disposal to do the things that we teach.

What regardless of your baby step, whether it's um you know to to be able

to do all of it to be able to save 15% in baby step four, five, and six, you can't exceed that or else you'll wonder how are how is everybody saving 15%.

It's because our mortgages and our rent is 25% or less.

>> Yes. Yep. which allows again so much of your income to be able to do so many things whether it is paying off debt like where she is in baby step two or beyond that what you're saying with investing and even kids college putting extra towards the house all of it.

>> Yes. Yes. But yeah, um what I appreciate about her though is she um she's not like a typical we see

some people get out and they out of law school, out of you know doing all the residency with in the medical field and they make $320,000 their first job and that's a that's a great income. It is

they and you want to feel it. you want to go enjoy it and you want, you know, upgrade the car, get a nicer spot, like you just want to all these things. You want to be in it. And so her though, I could hear it in her voice.

Yeah. >> Where she was like, "No, I am I'm cutting. I'm getting out of this because it's crazy to think if she does this in 3 4 years, which is totally doable." >> Absolutely. >> Um at that point, she'll be making 400,000, you know, >> with nothing with no debt.

>> That's so true, you know. Um, and she did this with co she kind of went back and re revenge spend uh which was a real thing. But it's true when you make an income like that or really anything if you've worked hard to get what you have you almost feel like it's a reward to be able to enjoy it >> and and it is but if you've made mistakes >> you've got to go back and pick them up and clean up the mistakes and that's just part of it.

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All right, thanks for hanging with us.

We're going right back to the phone lines where we have Amanda who's in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Hey, Amanda.

>> Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. I hope you guys are good. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Hi. So, I need more of a I guess relationship advice. I want to see how I

can maybe get my husband to be as intense as I want to be on step number two or maybe how I can be less intense.

We can balance out. He says I'm a little bit um obsessing over money right now.

>> Okay. So, he's viewing he's viewing you

as obsessive. You're viewing him as a little bit passive. Tell me tell me some of the things that you want to do that he doesn't agree with.

So, um, we have some crypto

that I would love to take out so we can

get through step two faster. And I know

he was not totally on board. So, I made

uh like different plans as to how it it

would look like or how long it would take to pay off our debt if we took out the crypto, if we uh you know sold my

car and I would get a cheaper car or if

we didn't do either. So, we could compare the the length at which it would take to get through step two. Um, and

then he he's he's supportive of going through step two, but he was just like, "You're obsessing too much over this.

Like you >> he's not feeling the pain as much as you are." >> Yeah. He's Yeah. He's like, "I we're going to get through it. Like, you just need to calm down. Like, you're spending a little bit too much time on it. Like, you should focus on our family and our marriage instead of like looking at this." >> Wow. Does Does Okay, let me go on that

side. Does your marriage need attention?

Is there other things that need more attention right now?

>> I I would say maybe, you know, we just had a a baby. We have a four-year-old and a six-month-old right now. So, I would say maybe we could we try to do date nights and stuff, you know, at home and we go out for dinners.

>> Okay. >> Maybe like once a month or something.

>> Okay. So, >> I guess I can see why we could spend more time. Maybe I would start by I'm

going a different direction. I don't usually go this. So maybe you could start by getting a picture from him of what that looks like >> um in his mind. What does it mean for you >> if I I thought about what you said. What does it mean for you um in your mind?

What does it look like for me to spend more energy on our marriage? What does it look like for you um for me spending more time on our family? Because I'd like to meet you where you're at. And then I'm hoping that we can meet each other where we're at. And so if you start by >> wondering what that is for him, huh?

Because I'm not saying this is you, Amanda, by any means, but we do have some people that are so hardcore that every conversation is around getting out of debt. Every purchase is looked at to like the inth degree when the spouse walks in the door and it's like, look, I saw this over, you know, and it's just like it it becomes so obsessive to the point that there's nothing else in life but this. And listen, we're all about intensity, right? like we want you, but also you're a whole person and so you are in a marriage, you are a mom, you have these other roles that you can't neglect.

Amanda, how where would you be with how I just described? Are you that person or are you like, "No, I'm not that person.

He just is way too passive and I'm not that crazy." What would you say where where you are? Well, you know, I would admit I'm not like crazy obsessive, but I do want to get through um the debt

payoff and yeah, maybe could be a little bit more >> I guess cuz I I'm the one that handles the finances. >> I would like for him to be on board and not be the one that's like, "Oh, we can't, no, we shouldn't be spending on that or you don't want to be the mom of him, right?" And giving permission of what he can and can't do and what we can and can't do as family. We as two adults need to decide that. So there's there there's a core issue there.

>> It's a big issue. >> He's not in there with you. I >> I like that. I think if I were in your shoes, my next step would be set up a date, like a date night.

And the first date would be for you to learn more about what we talked about before. What does it look like in your mind for me to do these things? And then I'd set up another date. And I would say, um, here's what I I I know you didn't ask, but here's a few things that I would like to see going forward.

And I think if we if I do some of the things on your list and you do some of the things on my list, that's us meeting in the middle. Y >> and to do all of that around a date night, I think is a great way to be intentional. Um I I'll I'll just be honest. I for one like the fact that you're running different scenarios of if we did this, here's how quickly and if we did this.

And that way there's options. And I think maybe presenting it to him that way and saying, "Hey, what I don't want to do is make the decisions for our family. What I don't want to do is be the one saying you can or can't do this. So what I thought would work would be would be me bringing options so that you can decide and that we can decide together and both feel good about it as opposed to me saying no we're selling the crypto and no you're selling your car that sort of thing.

So just it just really feels like hearing the heart around the situation for both of you would be helpful. Yeah. And I do wonder, Amanda, if there's like if you guys are just missing a point of connection, and this sounds like so simple, but honestly, I could see being in your shoes and feeling like I feel so isolated over here. I feel so much responsibility.

I have a new baby. I have a toddler. This is up to me to make all these decisions about the household finances. I don't I feel like I'm on my own.

I don't feel connected to my husband.

But at least there's like a there's a connection point and I feel level of connection where his level of con connection Amanda maybe something totally different and so figure out what that is for him like what Jade's saying.

So, I think there there's like kind of this missing element of, you know, you could be functioning more like roommates and you're the CFO and you know what I mean, doing this role all on your own versus it being a marriage and we're in this, we're in this together. And what we both need may look different, but let's say that out loud um so that we at least hear each other. And that's the part of marriage is that you you know, you're you don't you're not going to be the hero to your spouse's story by any stretch of the imagination, but you can at least choose to step into those things.

Absolutely. And I do wonder if that would help you because he does need to be part of these decisions with money.

>> Yeah. >> And and you're probably Yeah. And I Sorry, I'm going to keep talking >> because I I bet you feel the stress though because you're seeing the numbers day in and day out and he's so he doesn't feel it as much as you >> and and I'm like, "Oh, we have this much left for our for grocery budget." And he'll be like, "Okay." you know, he's supportive of that, but I'm the one that has to like remind like, hey, we have this much in our account. We don't want to use our savings or >> Yeah.

And I don't think that's too much to ask. Um I truly don't. I I don't think

you're wrong. I I I don't think you're wrong at all. I don't think he's wrong for saying what his needs are. I think you guys just need to really talk about it and don't leave anything out.

Just be honest and see where that leads. Do you think you could be honest with him? And if so, what do you think his response would be? Do you think there'd be any change?

>> Yeah, I think I think I could be honest with him.

I didn't think I could trust him with the finances because I feel like it

would be unnecessary expenses.

So then that's why I felt like I had to take over the finances >> because you feel like he spends he spends too much >> on unnecessary things. Is that what you said? >> Yeah, maybe. >> So you wouldn't trust his methods?

>> Maybe not. Yeah. >> Okay. So it's a philosophy.

>> I have I have it in my mind that I wanted a specific way with the finances, but I feel like it's just sticking to the budget and not purchasing what's not

necessary. It sounds like you both have two different philosophies. It sounds like for you getting out of debt's really, really important or finding this financial security, whatever that means for is really, really important. And you're willing to really sacrifice to get it. And it sounds like for him debt is not as big of an issue.

>> Therefore, why be intense about solving it? >> You are definitely correct. Yes.

>> Okay. So that's a whole different conversation I think because if he doesn't mind debt then you pushing to go harder. He's like why? Why? Why? Right?

It's just like a moot point for him. So the conversation needs to be here's the way I'm feeling. Here's what this debt is making me feel. Here's my philosophy on debt. Where can we meet in the middle? Where can we where can we align on this? Because the baby steps, they're

not there to be the stumbling block for a marriage. They're there to be >> to be unified. And if it's causing so much friction, then you have to take steps back and go back to the almost the precipice of where you guys went arai and spend a lot more time having those conversations, getting aligned before you start any actions on the baby steps.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. This is Rachel. We're headed back to the phone lines where we have Matt who's in Orlando, Florida. Hi Matt. How are you? >> I'm good. And you guys? It's very very nice to talk to you guys finally.

>> Great. How can we help today?

>> Um, so basically I have wrecked up around 26,000 in consumer loans and unfortunately I have a a immigration situation with the lawyer and everything. So I had to put a lot of money to a lot of like loans towards the

credit card and I just want to know uh what should I be the best if I go for a debt relief program or I pay car uh the

highest first. How like what do you recommend that I should do on this situation? Well, I wouldn't go to debt relief simply because they're going to

take all of your payments and pull it

and then in the time that you're not paying it, they're going to use that as leverage to strike a deal for you. And you really don't need them to do that. That's going to tank your credit. If you wanted to do that on your own, you could really do that on your own. Um, so I I would not get involved with the debt relief program. Um, the 26,000 that you

mentioned, is that everything? That's including the immigration lawyer fees and everything, or is there more to speak of?

>> No, it's everything. >> Okay. And how much are you earning right now? >> Um, around 5560,000.

>> Okay, good. Is it just you or do you have a family? Are you married?

>> I'm I'm married. >> Okay. Uh, go ahead, Rachel. Well, I was going to ask, how many credit cards does this consist of? The 26,000

>> it's uh six credit cards.

>> Six credit cards. Do you know the balance on each of them?

>> Uh the American Express around 10,000.

Um the other credit cards around 2

3,000. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. So, what we would tell you is to list out the debts

smallest to largest and actually regardless of the interest rate and pay minimum payments on everything. stay current, but attack that smallest one first. And so what I would do, Matt, is if you guys can up your income, I mean, even if you can get um gosh, if you could find 500 bucks of margin, $1,000 of margin a month, and then maybe work extra and you get another thousand, some of these two thousands you could be paying off every month. Do you know what I mean?

As you go down the line. Um, and that's what's powerful about it is you start actually knocking some of the stuff out and then those payments that you were paying on those roll over to the next debt, right? So the 300 400 bucks a month you're paying for minimals now that's paid off. So that's an extra, you know, could be 2400 going to the next one, right?

So you kind of keep that snowball effect going. Um, but that's going to be the fastest way, the most efficient way for you to tackle these. So no, I would not pay a debt consolidation company. I wouldn't go to a debt relief company.

The people maneuver their debt around so much. The best thing for you guys is to take these six credit cards and you and your wife sit down and say, "How fast can we pay these off ASAP?" And it's and it's 30 grand. I mean, 26 grand. Um, so you can do this. I mean, I I really do.

I mean, if you can get two grand a month, you know what I mean? You got to pay it off in a year. >> Yeah. I just have a feeling that every every month that I pay, I I usually pay a little bit uh more than uh the minimum. So, every time I pay $200 and

it comes back, entry is $200. I'm like

I'm just paying the interest basically.

>> Yeah. And know like I'm going I'm I'm moving a step forward but like not not exactly >> and it's going to feel like that on all of the debts that you're paying the minimum on. The one that's going to feel that you're making progress on is the smallest debt. So just know that until

it's everybody's going to have to be on hold at the minimum until it's their turn to be the smallest debt cuz in that smallest debt you're paying it off lickety split. So just for real numbers,

after you pay the minimums on everything and you know your household is taken care of, how much extra money do you have every single month to put towards these debts to put towards the smallest debt? >> I would say $500, $600. I could put more, but then that that's uh I leave like money out of my pocket in case of of an emergency or something.

>> Okay. So, what we need to make sure is that you have $1,000 saved as an emergency fund so that you don't have to be worried about that month in and month out. If you have $1,000 saved, that's what we would call baby step one. And that way that's there.

You don't have to think about, you know, what if I have a flat tire? You know, there's money there. And then secondary on your every dollar budget, which by the way, if you don't have an every dollar budget, um Christian will pick up after this call and make sure we set you up with it. I want to make sure you have a cushion item, a cushion line item, meaning that you're budgeting a certain amount of money every single month just as a something could happen.

Um, >> yeah, Matt, do you have $1,000 saved right now?

Um, no, not really.

>> Okay. So, yeah. So, that would be the first goal is to work towards that. So, it may take you two months to do that.

Um, but in all of this, we want it to be really aggressive. So, almost say, could I do this in a month and a half? Could I do this in one month? Like, what do I have to do to get this thousand dollars as quickly as possible?

And again, it's probably going to mean working overtime, getting a side hustle. But this is all on Matt for nine months. You know what I mean? Like, we're not you're not going to be doing this forever and ever.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So they're ter it's terrible. It's horrible.

So the faster you get out uh the better off you're going to be where some people can hold on to a student loan because it's not high interest you know and they don't really feel it. You feel credit cards credit card debt you feel. So um getting out as fast as possible Matt is going to be your goal. But I see a way out for you guys.

I mean I really do. And even if your wife can take a part-time job and her, you know, even bring in an extra 500 a month or something. >> Absolutely. >> That stuff helps.

That stuff changes the game. >> So, uh, let's take a moment.

this is the second or third call, and I I want to just kind of go back to basics on debt payoff. So, first things first,

you got to have baby step one. Like, you got to have the $1,000. I have tried it without it back in the day and it didn't work because to to his point Mark uh to

Matt's point, you're worried about well if I put all my money on the debt, what if something happens? That's what baby step one is there for. So guys, you have to have baby step one in place. Next thing is the cushion. You got to have you know a cushion is not an emergency fund. It is not a slush fund. It is strictly there >> in case something that you forgot about comes out. And a way to think about it is what's the worst that could come out.

I don't know if you still have Amazon Prime. What is that like 120 bucks when that hits? Or Dropbox subscription or something hits once a year. >> So think about like yeah, maybe it's 150 bucks if you're getting out of debt. And especially if you have uh you know when I say lower income, if you're kind of in the average income, you're making 60 70 yeah 150 bucks extra, that's a great

place to start for a cushion. Now, if you're making a little bit more, you might need a little bit larger of a cushion because there might be larger things that come out. So, you need the cushion. And the next thing is just understanding that when we talk about the debt snowball method, I've been noticing this, Rachel. Um when we say smallest to largest, it's by balance. It is not by payment due. Okay. I've been

noticing people are doing it by payment and I'm like, "No, no, no, no. Balance." So, the full amount that you owe, that's how you're listing them. You got to pay the minimums. Cuz I've also, and I've done this, you think, "Oh, I don't have to pay the minimums. I just want all the money going at the smallest debt." No, no, no. Please pay the minimums. It is

It is thankless. I will just go ahead and say you, it doesn't feel good, but please do that because it's going to keep those debt collectors off and it is going to help keep the interest at bay.

Okay? So, please do it and it's going to give you more motivation to go quickly through the debt snowball. All the smallest money goes to the debt. So, that's just a little refresher for you um for you to get yourself right if you haven't been doing it right up until this point.

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer and they've been absolutely great.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Anna who's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Anna. How are you?

>> Hi.

Um, so I'm calling today because I just need some advice on what to do with some the money that I just got from the sale of my home. Um, so I'm a single mom of

three. Um, got divorced a couple years ago, but the house just it was a nightmare, but it just sold in September. >> Um, and so after I got the money off of it, I ended up making um a little over 100,000 off of it.

>> Oh, great.

>> I took uh the first thing I did is I went and paid off all my credit card debt because I had a lot of debt from the divorce process. >> Okay. >> Um, so I have no credit card debt at all. Go ahead. Um, no. The only only two

things I still have um on my credit, one is are student loans. I'm about 45,000

in student loan debt. Um, but I am a teacher in a title one school, so I am on the public service loan forgiveness program, which I know y'all speak about

still trying to pay that off. Um, because you know those can be complicated. But I have talked with someone and I'm on the right path. I've been paying on it for five years. Um,

and then the other thing I owe about $8,000 on my vehicle, but I have tax

money coming in. That should be more than enough to pay that off. Um, so

right now I'm renting um because that

was the only option I had until the house sold that I could afford >> and you know it would it is easier. Um,

however, I would really like to be able to buy a home to where I feel like I'm investing in my future for me and the kids instead of renting. I kind of feel like I throw a little bit of money away.

And I know that that's not fully the case because I'm not having to worry about fixing things. But I'm pretty handy. I can fix most things myself. Um,

so I guess my question is, um, I don't

think I'm quite ready because I'm not sure where where I want to buy a home at at the moment, but based on interest rates in today's economy, for me to have a home big enough for me and the kids, >> um, I would have to put a h 100,000 down on something just to get the payments to where I can afford them. >> Right. So Anna, out of the hundred,000

that you got, you said you paid off all your credit card debt. How much of that is left?

Oh, it was like I ended up with like 112,000. So, I took that 12. I still have a h 100,000. >> Oh, wow. Okay, perfect. Okay. Um All

right, that's great. So, you know what we would suggest? >> Yeah, and I think you probably know our answer to a degree of what we would do with this 100 grand. If it were me, I would pay off the student loans in the car today and then I would look to say,

"Okay, I have, you know, you'll have around 40ish 48,000 left." And I would

take that, I would put it um in a high yield savings account and I would just be making it a goal to be building that

up because part of that 45,000 that's going to be left um is that right? No, no, no. I'm sorry. The 45,000 was your student loans.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it gets to be around 45 or so that you'll have left >> once you pay the car off. >> Yeah.

Um you know, part of that's going to be earmarked for an emergency fund and then start saving on top of that though.

you're going to be able to buy the home that you want and to have, you know, we always say to have at least a 5% down payment, what percentage um when you say I would need at least $100,000, is that to get your payment to 25% of your take-home pay?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yep. Um >> um the because a fourbedroom home in my area, you're not going to find one under 300,000. And for the for me to be able to afford the payments per month, I need it to be at at least 200,000.

>> Yep. So, so a couple of things in this.

Number one, you know, you know, it may not be a four-bedroom home. You know, two of the kids may share a room. I shared a room growing up and a bathroom.

uh you know, you may decide, hey, I'm going to value home ownership more than just the comfort of what, you know, my kids space-wise, right? Some people make that decision. Some people don't. Some people say, "No, we're going to save an extra year to make sure we get really what we want." Um, you know, but there can be um decisions you make along the way. I just don't want you to ever feel locked in that um I have to get this

type of house in this specific area.

This has to be it. Right. I would I would broaden the horizons just to see if you're wanting to get into the house faster or maybe you have the patience to save another year or two. >> Yeah, I I 100% Rachel agree with your plan and I I wouldn't change it at all and I would make it my goal if possible.

You know, the best way to do this is on a 15-year. So, I'd make that my goal too if it's not already your goal. Um, but the biggest thing that's going to give you peace is having this debt gone and

having that 3 to 6 months of expenses really between you and life, especially with three kids, is such a it's just a breath of fresh air to have that. So, I like the goal. Um, I like that you have 100,000 cash, but that's exactly what I'd do with it.

>> Okay. I have some money in an MMA

account that's gaining like 3.5% interest.

Um, I don't know much about the high yield savings account. >> Is that what the hundred,000 is in?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. So, it's same thing. It's in a money market account right now.

>> Yes. >> Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Money market and high yield are >> same >> pretty much same. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's but that's where where I would keep I wouldn't invest it because I think Anna, you're going to use this money probably in the next three to four years. And if it's anything longer than five, you could think about, you know, a brokerage account or an index fund or something.

Um, that would probably make some more.

But if you're going to be using it in the next 3 years, um, I would just keep it in that high yield and just keep saving on top of that. >> I would too, especially knowing that really a portion of that is technically your your 3 to 6 months after you've paid off this debt. Having it liquid is a good a good place to have that as well. >> Yeah. >> H, thanks for the question. Good question. All right, let's go to Braden in Philadelphia. Braden, how can we help today?

>> Braden, are you there?

>> Hey, what's up? >> Oh, yeah, I am. Sorry. >> No worries. >> Hey, how's it going? >> Hey, how are you? How can we help?

>> So, um, I'm calling today because I've

been doing the baby steps, but um, I've been doing, I guess, Ramsayish would be the word, and it's kind of not working out so much. Um, I'm kind of like still paycheck to paycheck and I've been budgeting and um, so I just had a couple

questions about some debt that my wife and I are in. And I had my um, I guess

my income up because there's a couple options. I I have a two-year degree from Pen College and pretty much I could go

back for four years. I did do an additional two years and have a bachelor degree in engineering. I'm not sure how much that would help. Um, but I don't want to take out student loans on that either. >> So, you're facing an income problem and you're thinking changing careers is the situation is the move.

>> Um, yeah. I mean, it would be more so the same field but a different job. It' be more engineering than like technician work. >> Okay. What would Do you know what it would cost you to go back to school? And how much more would you earn by doing that?

Um, it's hard to say. I think each semester is around 12 to 15

and it'd be another four semesters.

>> Okay. >> I'm not sure how much more I'd earn.

Really depends on the kind of live in an area I'm a little bit outside of Philadelphia. >> So, I I don't know what kind of work would be around here for >> So, I think that's where you got to start. anybody who's looking to switch career fields, um, and especially if you're looking to pay for school in order to do it, you've got to do that initial research to find out number one,

if I go back to school, what's the earning potential there? Do I have a potential to earn just 10 10 or $12,000 more, or can I double my income? And then from there, it's like, okay, if I feel like the jump in income could be worth going back to school, now I have to go back and say, okay, how how much does it cost and how where can I go that's the least expensive route? How long would it take me to save?

And then you're able to weigh out those really important factors.

Um, I'm guessing that you're feeling this because you guys are in debt. Am I right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. We got our kid now. We got a another one on the way with both super happy about, but it's kind of >> Yeah. How much debt do you guys have?

>> It's going to be >> um I think uh quick math around 37 I think.

>> Okay. Is that cars, credit cards?

>> Um there we have a car on there, a few

credit cards, a personal loan. >> Okay. >> And that that's actually not not including our house. >> Okay. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I hear you. We're about to go to a break, but I would say to you, I would encourage you and your wife, sit down tonight and just say, if we went scorched earth and did this Ramsay thing the real way, what would this look like to get us out of this mess? Cuz it's just kind of floating around.

And then I would make sure to before you're even talking about school, you need a hard fact that you need a degree in order to get these other, you know, jobs, which you may, but I would want to know black and white like, yes, you absolutely have to have this four-year degree in order to have this job, and this job you're going to make $40,000 more.

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We've got Yeah, I know. We've got Taylor who's in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Taylor.

>> Hi. I'm so excited to talk to y'all.

Thank you'all for answering my question.

>> For sure. How can we help?

>> Um, okay. So, I need y'all to help me solve a disagreement between me and my husband about how much to spend to

upgrade my car. Yes, we love a marriage

disagreement. Give it to us.

>> Y'all are perfect to help me with that. >> We can do this. >> Um, okay. So, a little bit of background. Um, we are on I think baby step four. Um, we don't have any debt.

We're 28 years old, no kids. Um, we

don't have any debt other than our mortgage. We have a small mortgage. Um, and we recently inherited um $100,000

>> from my grandpa. >> Okay. And so of that, we're trying to

figure out how much we want to spend to upgrade my car. And it's definitely a it's a want, not a need. Um, so I'll preface with that. But my husband wants to spend, if anything, around 25,000,

and I would like to spend up to 50.

>> Nice. That's a big difference. >> What kind of car are you looking at, Taylor? >> Well, that's the hard part. we really can't look at cars because we're at such a difference on price that it makes it

hard. Um what we've kind of decided on is potentially maybe a Volkswagen Atlas.

Um but of course the year really depends on how much we're going to spend.

>> Yes, for sure. For sure.

>> And of course I think he's being frugal and he thinks I'm, you know, kind of spending too much and so we're just kind of at a disagreement and at odds.

>> Totally. Okay. If this if the upgrade of the car is it um let me ask this the

current car you have are you like yeah I'm going to have to upgrade at some point probably in the next year or two or is it like you both have fine cars but you're like hey we got 100 grand and I enjoy a nice car. Which one is it?

>> Well, he drives a very nice truck. Um so

I'll say that we don't own it. Um it is a business truck so you know that's it's not something that we own. Um, I drive a

Mazda CX3 2017. It has about 100,000

miles on it, so it could definitely go for the next probably three more years.

>> What would go? So, okay. So, whether you spend 25 or 50, what what's the plan with the other money? Like, does it keep you from doing something else?

>> Not necessarily. My We don't have kids and we probably plan to in the next couple years. And so I think my husband is just like, we could spend that on the house to pay it off or on other investments in in the next two years.

We're going to have probably a lot more expenses than we do currently. And he just feels like seeing it grow. And I

mean, he just sees that big number and he's like, "Wow, we could do so much with that." Which I totally understand.

>> What's left on the mortgage, by the way?

>> Um, around 200k. Okay.

>> And how much do you guys make a year?

>> 200K. >> Oh, wow. Okay. So >> you make 200. Yeah. You >> So you probably know our parameters on this. Have you heard of it?

>> Uh yes. So nothing more than 50%.

>> Yeah. So we always say that things with motors really the whole family combined shouldn't be any more than 50% of your

take-home pay. >> And Taylor's at 25. >> Yeah. He's at 25. And I mean you could you could go up to 100.

>> No. Yeah. I was gonna say no. She's at 25 wanting 50,000, >> right? My math's right. If you make 200,000 Yeah. >> a year and she wants to spend 50,000,

that's 25%.

>> Yeah. >> Of the take. So So she's way way below.

>> She's way below. >> Like even with his he's at 12% or

something. >> That's what I'm saying. You got you guys have a $100 $100,000 window to fill. And

so >> in cars >> in cars and so you >> Okay, but here okay. So here would be the deal. I would say in order to feel good about you spending 50, let's say he loses his job and he needs to go buy something. Could he buy something for 40 to 50 that he would feel good about?

>> Well, he works for his his family's business. >> Yes. Well, no. Hypothetically, though, because >> Okay. Hypothetically, yes.

>> If he could, then together you guys are under the 50% rule. If you have a $50,000 car and he has a $50,000 car, you're at $100,000 of cars making $200,000. Does that make sense? So like you're good.

>> And you're saying as long as he'd have the ability to do what you're asking to do. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. To stay within those parameters then. Yeah. Because again, God forbid he loses a job, you know, and >> he needs a car.

>> And he'd need a car. Could he do it within the parameters of the 50% total household of vehicles? And he could, you know, he could buy. >> Do you take into account the inheritance at all or do you just kind of ignore that and think about >> how you got it?

Yeah. No, I kind of ignore it. >> That's just a cherry on top. the fact that you didn't have to save up for it.

>> Yeah. Unless Unless something in the inheritance says that they want this to go for your future kids college tuition or something. You know what I mean? And you're going against and you're like, "Oh gosh, that feels weird to do that." Yeah.

>> Um >> I mean, Taylor, I'm saying yes. I'm on your team, Taylor.

You know what? Maybe say 45 to give them

like a little a little bit of a buffer.

48. But hey, but seriously though, research the cars cuz what you want in the year, you may find like, oh my gosh, I can totally get that for 43 and I and I'm great with it. You know what I mean? So, the research is going to help too. I think brings some of this just the idea cuz like just and I understand like golly, so on the pill of $50,000 to a car. >> Well, is it used or is it brand new?

>> Used. We we would buy used.

>> Okay, just double checking that.

>> Yeah, >> I I am a green light.

>> I think you called the right day, Taylor. If you got George Camel, I don't know what George would say, but he say yes. >> I say yes. So, the key is now you have to get your husband to listen to this episode. >> Exactly. >> I don't know. Yes. And you got to pay and y'all agreed. >> And you're married to him, though. So, there's, you know, you you committed your life to him. So, there may be a little give and take, but we would say yes. >> Oh, wow. Congratulations on the new car.

>> Oh, man. I love a call like that. Those are my favorite calls when we get to get in the middle and decide >> and we get to and when we get to say yes to people because I feel like so many of the calls it's like dude you got to sell the car, you can't go on that vacation.

No, you're broke.

>> You don't have money. You can't do that.

That's I feel like that's a lot. So when we get to say yes because it's respons.

It's fine. >> Well, and I think it's a good it's a good reminder because a lot of people uh forget that we want you to be able to live like no one else. Obviously, we're telling people all the time, hey, cut back, pull back, get a beater. And it's really great to understand that these moments happen to every day. Yes. Where whether even if it's not an an inheritance, maybe you've just worked really hard and now you bonus or something. Yep. >> Yeah. It's fun to be able to do this.

And just the reminder, I think it's good to go back and remind folks who might be listening for the first time, you know, we're sticklers about this obviously because cars go down in value. I mean, you said it. You know, you drive a car off the lot, it could drop 30% so so quickly a year or two. Yeah. It's crazy.

especially like with um EVs now, they're very like it's huge. And so the parameters are there really just to make sure too much of your world is not going down in value. That's so so important.

And so yeah, 50% is the rule. And then I asked her earlier about if she was buying a brand new vehicle because we even have a parameter there that really you should have a net worth of a million bucks before you purchase something outright because again, brand new vehicles drop in value so quickly. And I've heard Dave say, you really want the feeling that if I took that amount, that value that it was going to drop and I just put it in the street and burned it, I would feel nothing, right?

And so that's kind of they're parameters, they're guidelines, and they're there um for you guys. Yeah.

Just to help you. >> And whenever you get a big sum of money, too, we didn't really touch on this earlier, but really we always say there's three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can save it, you can spend it. And I think doing all three in a situation like this, I think is I think is important.

And so, you know, if we were still chatting with her, I probably would tell her, "Hey, take some of this, give a little bit of it." >> That's true. Yes.

Spend some on you. Like, you know, there's a there's a threeprong to this money stuff. And some seasons you're going to be saving more, you know, for something, for a down payment, for a house or whatever it may look like. Um, you know, some seasons you're going to have tons of generosity flow through you and you're able to do a lot, which is amazing.

And then some seasons you're going to be able to enjoy your money. So you it doesn't have to be like a a equal split between the three every single time, but just be aware that that's how money flows and and it should be flowing at some level of all three of those buckets. >> Yeah, that's what you're looking for. I love it.

I hope that your husband gives you zero problems because we agree with you wholeheartedly.

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Today's question comes from Jenna in Michigan. She said, "Your podcast inspired my husband and I to start the baby steps and we've made so much progress. I'm expecting our first baby and we'll be having a baby shower soon.

As a new mom, I feel pressure to get the nicest, which means most expensive items, so my baby can have the best things. With all the talk about how there are so many items you need, what advice would you give a new mom wanting to be smart financially, but feels the pressure of needing to get the new things her friends say are important?

Oh, that's a great question. Well, you asked two moms, so we can uh we can attest to this. >> Um, yeah. I mean, I do feel like people go crazy on the first baby. You're about to have a shower, so I'd say register to your heart's desire. You know, put put stuff on the registry, see what you get.

>> And then I know the money coming out of our pocket where we spent the most, and we did, we invested in a good stroller.

Yep. >> And a good car seat because those things lasted through three kids. And if you know baby stuff, toddler stuff, I mean stuff gets beat up constantly.

>> Oh yeah. >> So we did we bought the nice I mean we did it was a very very very nice stroller car seat set. But everything else we went cheap on to the the the high chair, the crib, like all of that stuff like did not it was the thing like what's going to get the most wear and tear >> that I would want to um keep for the

next kids, right? So it's like kind of that's how we made that decision. Um

yeah. So I think it's the two things. I think it's being practical and and buying the most expensive item sometimes is worth it because it is the nicest and it's going to last you. And then but then the other side of that prong is the um is the keeping up side of feeling like you have to keep up. And let me tell you, >> you're going to buy something and then six months later they're going to come out with a better thing of that. I mean, it just keeps going and going and going

and all the crap that is out there. It is like I swear it's like the wedding industry. >> The baby I mean >> it's like billions of dollars. been so much so much. So, I would not Yeah, I

would not feel the pressure. Um, it's easier said than done. I mean, just saying this over a microphone. I know it doesn't help you, but I do want to relieve like once you get past it all, you're not you don't even remember like you don't even think of like, oh my gosh, did I get the best >> bottles or pacifier, whatever. You know what I mean? >> I will say our stroller I wish I had made a different choice to this day.

>> Did you Did you buy a nice one, but you didn't like it or what? >> It was. And I it was the one everybody recommended and I honestly didn't do a

ton of my own research. I just went with what was recommended and I hated the stroller. But I'm with you, Rachel. I Sam and I picked like four or five things that were really important and they obviously happened to be the most expensive ones.

But when we put them on our register, our registry, we kind of had the idea that, you know, most people probably aren't going to get you a $500 gift. So, we kind of knew we'll probably be on the hook for that or maybe we could use our gift cards towards those things. But, we kind of knew like we'll get the expensive stuff likely and everybody else will get all the other dads.

>> it it measures their breathing so you don't have to like worry about like is my baby okay, right? like that. That's the main thing that I would get up in the night to just be like, I just need to make sure that they're fine. But it measures it's a little thing that goes around their foot and it grows with them in infancy and it measures their O2 and

like >> and it goes off if for some reason they've rolled over on and they can't breathe. So, >> yes. Oh my gosh. >> Best purchase ever. >> Yeah. Peace of mind. I don't even know if they I'm trying to think. I don't even know if I knew that. >> Yeah, that we had that. >> Maybe back in your day. >> I know they had that. I know. Um Oh,

that's so funny. Yeah, but there's so much so much crap I feel like that they just Yeah, it's so marketed to. So, just make the decision. Go to consignments for clothing. That's what I did, too. I found a few places in Nashville did consignment. That's where I bought so many of the kids babies. >> The baby is none the wiser. Make the things that make your life easier.

That's what I'd say. >> Yes. Amen. Hallelujah. Alrighty. Craig, who's in Salt Lake City, Utah, is on the line. Hey, Craig. How can we help today?

Well, I've I've got a a business, a

construction business, and over the last couple of years, I've had a couple of jobs that have went a little south on me, and I've taken out a a business loan

from my bank, and I've also got a cash flow to ride the incoming, outgoing, and

my overhead during between payments. Um,

well, over the last couple years, I've managed to get myself about 240,000 in

debt, and my payments on the cash flow in the

business are about 4,600 a month. And we

took out an equity loan on the house >> to pay down some of it. But right now,

I'm sitting at about with all my bills,

everything, I'm about $9,800 a month to just cover my overhead. And we we owe

just under 300 on our house. It appraises for just under 600. And I'm wondering if if it would be a good idea to sell the house and pay off this debt

or whether I should just keep trying to pay it and make headsway or I'm worried

that if I sell the house now I got to buy another one and I'm not going to get my payment is only 1,800 a month.

>> Well, how much was the home equity loan?

Like how much is that going to cut into the 600 that it's worth?

>> Well, I we it was 109.

>> Okay. Okay. >> For the home equity loan is what we got.

So >> you still owe 300.

>> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> So it's about 400,000 in debt. So you'll

net out around around 200.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So tell walk us through the plan.

Is the plan to take the because if the

plan is to take whatever equity maybe you walk away with 170 after all of this, I don't know. Uh what's the plan with that 170? Is it to clear business debt? Is it to roll it into a less expensive house? What are you thinking?

>> Well, I my my lease payment on my shop

space is about 2,400 a month. And so I

would take this if we sold the house, I would take this and clear the business debt, but I still have to have shop

space because I have a bunch of equipment that I need to have running to stay in business. Um, can you clarify for me when you said earlier that you had 240,000 in the business, is that including the 109 of the HELOC or is

that in addition to >> No, that includes that.

>> Okay. So, it's 240 total or is it 349

total? >> Yes. No, 249 total with the with the

house loan and the cash flow and my business loan. So, you would take the the the 170 and you would throw it towards all of the all of the cash flow loan.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> Yes, we're we're able we're able to keep up with the payments. I mean, it's tough, but just those two, the loan, the business loan and the cash flow is about 4,400 a month.

uh my business. I mean, I'm able to generate that, but I've had to let a lot

of the employees go because I had to >> cut payroll, >> increase my overhead.

>> Yeah. And so now I'm doing everything myself. So, >> is the business do you see it having an upward trajectory or is it flatlining?

Is it going down? Where like where do you project revenues to be in the next 12 months?

>> Well, I stay I stay pretty busy. Um I

average Um, I don't know. I I would probably

average in the next year maybe 200,000.

>> Okay. >> In volume.

>> So, it almost feels like you grew too

big too fast. Like you created a world that you can't sustain.

>> So, >> yes, >> you selling your house is making a huge I mean, you've already taken out a home equity loan. If you sell your house and then turn around and take the equity and run it back into this business and it's still not even fully clearing the debt, I'm afraid of that because it's only going to clear out some of the cash flow loan. You're you still have this business loan over here that has how

much will be left?

Well, we we figure after the sale of the house, I would have um probably about

40,000 in the business loan, and that would be the only the only lo, you know, the >> Yeah. So, unless I would need to pay off, >> I would sit down with your wife and unless y'all had an aggressive growth plan to get a house again in the next 5 years. Um but man, yeah, I

>> I'm not sure. I'm not sure about this business. I might sit down with um I might sit down with somebody who could give you some input on how the bis the health of the business and maybe get connected to our entree leadership coaching and see what they tell you about this business cuz I'm not convinced you need to keep it.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jay.

Next to me is Rachel Cruz. We've got Lauren who's on the line from Tampa, Florida. Hi, Lauren. How can we help today? >> Hi there. Uh, so my husband and I are expecting our first baby come spring.

And we're trying to decide whether I will keep working full-time, move to part-time in a different role, or step away from the workplace totally. So, we're just like wanting some help weighing the risk risk versus reward of one leaving the work workforce >> and like what what to do to re you know reduce the hours for a season and just all that that comes with it. >> Totally. Well, congratulations. So exciting. >> Um what would be the main motivation for

you to change? Is it anything money related, financial related? Is it just your longing of, you know, wanting to be

a working mom or not be a working mom?

like what's pulling you the most?

>> I think the main thing is leaving my leaving a baby with daycare for 5 days a week seems really really hard. My husband isn't he's he works in law enforcement so he's on 12-hour shifts, right? And he might be moving >> back to night shift come, you know, springtime when the baby's due. And so that's also kind of a factor like could I be solo parenting for days at a time while he's working night shift and then sleeping during the day and then I'm having to do >> overnights and daycare and all that on my own.

>> That's a lot.

>> We have no debt. We >> Yeah, we have no debt. We just just our mortgage. We could live off of one income. Right now we aggress um we invest pretty aggressively. So, a little

bit more than like two grand a month into like retirement and um like a like

a brokerage. >> Okay. So, >> is is that 15% or is that more or less or do you know what percentage that is?

>> Uh it's more than 15% of our take-home.

Okay. >> What do y'all bring home a month?

>> Uh per month we bring home about a little bit more than 9,000 between the two of us. >> Oh, yeah. That is more. Okay. Um and

what would it be if you stopped?

>> Well, that's that's a good question. So, I'm I'm currently full-time engineer and so I haven't had the conversation yet with my employer of what uh part-time would look like. Um I know I could not stay in my current department. So, I'd have to either switch departments within the company and and take a pay cut to go part-time or just leave the company altogether and find a different part-time role. >> What does your husband make? What what's what's his income of this 9,000?

>> Um well, he makes about 96 a year and I make 94 a year. So, >> Okay. Yeah. So, could y'all live off of

4,500 a month comfortably? Like mortgage and food and you know, you guys are in a good spot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mortgage and food, but we would have to really decrease our our investing. >> Sure. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, you're in a The good news is you're in a really great spot to just choose. It's not You're not Your back is not against the wall. There's nothing that's demanding attention financially. You're doing very very well. Um and the biggest red flag is

usually can we afford the mortgage? uh like this. And I'm just curious if you went down to 4,500. I know you'd be working part-time, but just curious, what is your mortgage every single month? >> Uh it's about 1,800. >> 1,800. Yeah. Um I think that with you even bringing in a little bit, you'd be okay. So, >> do you want to work, Lauren, or do you want to be home?

>> I think ideally I would like to work part-time just to be able to contribute financially to the to the family, but then also like have time at home with with littles cuz they're only little ones. Yeah, for sure. Well, here's the great thing that I I feel like I've learned in this of having three kids and

and working is different seasons are

going to bring different things. And it's okay for you to make a different decision. So, I feel like sometimes women feel like I have to make this call and it's going to be my life forever.

And that's not the case. That's that doesn't have to be. You know, you could you could choose, hey, I just want to be home full-time. That's great.

And then you may get in six months in. And I had a friend just like this and she's like, "I'm going crazy. Like >> I want to babysit her so that I can go and like do something and and just to like um and to use my talent." She was really talented and she missed that part of her. You know, she really did feel like there was something God has given her and that part she didn't have.

And so she's like, I kind of wanted to do both. And so she figured out a way to do both.

Or some people say, "I'm going to go back to work." And they get in. That happens a lot here at Ramsey with some girls, you know, they haven't been. And especially your first, you don't understand how it feels. And you and you think, I'm going to come back.

>> And then you get back in the swing. Yeah. And you're back in and you're 6 months in, nine months in, you're like, I hate this. I want to be home.

Guess what? You can quit and do that. You know, so like just know because of this financial situation you guys are in, which is such a blessing. What a gift is that you can you can make a different decision.

So, you know, if your knee-jerk right now is, hey, I think I do want to work part-time. Yeah. Start talking to your employer about that and start making plans around that.

>> You can make that decision. You know, it's not an all or nothing.

>> Yeah. So now what about like leaving the work for? Like I I I guess one of my fears is leaving the workforce as a woman for a period of time and then not either making as much as I make now or like I guess never I guess never being as professionally leveled as I am now.

Like if I am to leave and then come back. >> Yeah, I could be I could be wrong on this. So Jay, if you have a different opinion, I think that is something that to a degree we've kind of like created this fear in our heads to feel like we can't have an off-ramp. So we have to go go go. But I've I know many women who

have offramped a career for four to five years >> and get back in when the kids are in school and it takes a little bit to get back in but like they do it and they and they've th they've been fine. Now that may not be the case every single position or every single company. Um

>> but for me that that fear of it not being an absolute there's not like a law, you know what I mean? It's it's more an idea that that can happen.

>> Yeah. >> That would that would not be my motivator because it's not a hard fact.

It's a fear that's not always realistic.

>> Yeah. And I think it depends on what field you're in. It could be something that if you're keeping up like if you're just keeping up, whether it be certifications or you're just keeping up with new improvements, you know, how how that that particular field is shifting, just being in the know could help. Um, and there's a big part of this where the

there's also the assumption that, okay, let's pretend you're you're a stay-at-home mom for 10 years, right?

and you're thinking, "Oh my gosh, after 10 years, will I really be able to get my old job, right? Be be in my old field." Who's to say you would even want to do that type of work? So, even you

changing as a person to saying, "Hey, I may want to go back to work, but not necessarily what you were doing before." So, also giving yourself the ability to evolve in the career space and maybe have a completely different act and do something totally different. >> What the world's going to look like to in 8 years, you know, is wild.

>> Yeah. So to your point, the fear part there, it could really be unfounded because careers could change, you could change.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. It's a lot to think of. Like this is a huge choice. And hopefully that Rachel and I just gave you a couple of thoughts just to push you in a direction, but it really is a big choice. >> Yeah. And and you're never in a corner though, right? You It is a big choice.

But we have multiple choices you get to choose from. you know, any any given

month you get to it's your life, you know, you get to make that call.

>> Um, >> and none of them are con like none of them are for life. You always >> That's right. seasonal. It really is.

It's so seasonal. Like what I mean, I know I pulled back some after I had Charles cuz I had three kids under five and I was like, I can't do the travel I'm doing. >> And I did pull back and I did I watched people have um books come out that hit

higher than mine.

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Very, very good. All right, we've got Mark who's in Indianapolis, Indiana. Hi, Mark. How can we help?

>> Hi. How are you doing? >> Good. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, so my wife and I bought our first home recently about a week ago.

And um the thing is that the seller had

agreed to fix a few items um from the

inspection report and uh we we've taken

a look at at the fixes and we've had a few issues going on um this week and

we're not really sure if we have any recourse that we could do or anything that we could do after closing on this house. Now >> what what are what are we talking about?

Tell me what the items are.

>> So, um, the sump pump was not operational. Um,

>> what's not the pool? What' you say? Sump pump. Oh, sump pump. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah, the sump pump was not operational.

And they they agreed to replace a sump pump, which they did. They did replace a sump pump, but in doing so, they did not

connect the the pipe properly.

>> And the the day that I went um the day

that I went right after closing, there was water flowing everywhere and it go

the flooring of the basement. And then we also have a garage door situation that they put on a new door, but they

the the um they half-heartedly did it because um >> there's still the old tracks and the old pieces from the >> Yeah. They used So they use some crappy person to you know that did crap work on the repair. Yeah. It's in the contract, right, for it to be >> fixed and they didn't fix it and it's not fixed. So yes, >> force that. >> Absolutely. And it's just been a week, right, Mark? It's not six months.

Yes, it's been a week. So, that's what we're wondering. Like, >> I would talk to your realtor and go back. Yeah. And absolutely that they I mean, you have and you have evidence. Did you take pictures?

>> Yeah, I took pictures and I took videos.

I sent it to my realtor, but there's just it's just been crickets on that end. So, >> from your if someone's scared. Yeah.

From from our realtor. So, I'm not sure if someone's just if they're just busy or they're just scared to be bothered. I don't I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on.

>> I'd show up. Do they have a place that you can show up to?

>> It's about a 30 minute drive, though.

But I I mean, we're we're willing.

>> I would I'd show up at their realy office and say, "Hey, I've been working with Bob and I just closed on my house and this is part of my contract and it's not been done and I've been trying to contact Bob and he's not re answering my

texts or my emails or my calls." That's what I do.

Okay. >> Yeah. And then I >> Is it likely we'll be able to recoup anything? >> Yeah, it's in your contract.

>> That that that that's that was a uh part

of the deal of this being a fair deal and they did not do it. >> And if they don't do it in the next 72 hours and answer, you're going to have to get it fixed. And when you get it fixed, you're going to bill it to them.

>> Along with a letter from your lawyer.

>> Yeah. It's in your contract to fix it and they didn't fix it properly. So they have to go back and fix it. So yeah, no,

that you definitely have a level of recourse. Now could is there a world that nobody answers your call, Mark, and everyone disappears and you can't find anyone? Is it worth pushing legal action at that point? You'll probably pay more in law fees than to fix it, right? So like there's a point >> there's a world that yeah, you end up just having to fix it yourself. But I would go to every single measure possible.

um yeah to get this cuz that's so that's so unfair just to do a crappy job on the fix just to say to check off uh check it off to get the contract through. So >> terrible. The worst part is having to spend the time and the effort and the brain power on this. Sorry you're going through that, but thank you for the call. Next up is Katie in Dallas, Texas.

Hi Katie.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um I'm 44, my husband's 46. We currently only have 80K left on our mortgage. We have no other debt. We are interested in purchasing a newer home, bigger, more desirable area, which would leave us with a newer mortgage of about 250K

after about a $250,000 down payment. And

I'm just wondering if this is financially smart. I think number-wise, it's doable. However, emotionally it feels a little bit more um challenging to move forward with this.

>> For sure. or how much you guys make a year? >> Close to 200. >> Okay. How quickly could you pay the 250 off? Do you think if you like really if you guys said, "Okay, paying off the house is a priority to get this mortgage down." How quickly do you think you guys could do it?

>> Honestly, I don't think it would happen very fast. Maybe 7 to 10 years.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> what do you just feels >> Go ahead. It just feels like we wouldn't be able to I'm going to say build wealth as far as contribute more to the 529s,

more to the 401ks doing this.

>> How what percentage are you doing for you're doing retirement now? Are you doing 15%.

>> Um my husband and I are each both doing 10%. >> Okay. And how long what do you have in there? What do you have in retirement so far? >> About 550.

>> Okay. Um >> so that'll double. Yeah. I mean that will that'll double every seven years.

So you guys I think will be fine at retirement. And people that are doing you know the baby steps on average they pay off their home in about 9 years. So let's say that's you guys you know then you'll be you know your husband will be 55 you'll be um 53 with a paid off house.

Um, so I think the numbers I don't I don't think it's absolutely terrible, but but you know, big purchases like this, I always want to check my spirit

in it and ask like the motivation of it, right? Is it to be >> closer where you guys want to be? Is it for the schools for the kids? Is it >> in a newer newer neighborhood, a bigger home? You know, kids in the neighborhood that are friends with kids.

>> My kids.

>> Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, it doesn't that doesn't absolutely scare me.

I just want to make sure you guys as a household can fund >> 15% of your income into retirement. And I don't want the kids colleges >> to go on complete pause because you guys wanted a newer, bigger house, right? So, from a legacy perspective, I do think there is um some level of saying, hey, we are going to have to contribute and make sure the kids are good with college and do this. Can we do both?

because choosing one or the other feels >> maybe a little off. >> And I'd also ask myself the question because when I look at this my brain goes immediately to oh my gosh you only owe 80,000 on your mortgage. Now I'm just throwing this out there. Um the question I'd ask myself is if our house were paid off, would I still be interested in getting a 200 two at that point maybe a $200,000 mortgage on a house or would I be like no way my house is paid off.

I'm good to go. that that that'd be the question that I'd spend a lot of time with. And you might be like, "Yes, Jade. I am ready to go." >> Yeah, it does seem like we're almost towards the finish line.

>> How much is How much is your current house worth?

>> Um, about 280.

>> Okay. And what are you guys looking to upgrade to?

>> The sale price is $4.95, but we put down

about >> 55%. Oh yeah. Yeah. I I think you guys

are fine, Katie. I mean, as long as you Yes. the payment, you know, no more than 25% of your take-home pay so that you guys can invest >> in retirement, kids, college, all of that. So, it may be a season of

>> decreasing lifestyle a little bit. Yeah.

And and pulling back from Yeah. I want the household to be investing 15% and you guys are at 20 right now. So, uh just be thinking about that. So, pulling back will help with this and to hopefully maybe get it paid off sooner.

But um but yeah, with your ages, income,

what you're putting down, I mean, they're putting down 55%. Like I think >> you're doing everything right and above right in in that in that perspective.

The biggest thing is making sure and I'm assuming that you guys already do have some sort of uh emergency fund in place, but making sure you have the right amount of emergency fund because now with a bigger house payment, that amount needs to go up to match that new lifestyle obviously. So just some little things to keep in mind. Um, I love that you mentioned the 529s and making sure that college is still a priority because >> very, very important. But other than that, I'm like, let's go. It's great.

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

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So, just a reminder, so much of what we teach here is not just to make your life

difficult by saying that you need to cut back on your budget or you need to sell your car. The whole purpose of this is so that you can live like no one else, so that you can achieve financial peace.

And of course, that does translate to numbers. The hope is that you'll become a baby steps millionaire. And a baby steps millionaire is simply someone who has, you know, used our teachings, the baby steps and all the methods associated with that, and they've achieved a net worth of a million dollars or more, which when you think about a net worth equation, guys, it's what you own minus what you owe equaling a million bucks. And so, we actually have someone on the line who has accomplished that and we want to celebrate them.

Hey, Kelly.

>> Hey, how you doing, Jade? What's going on? A million dollars. Tell us more.

>> Um, well, yeah, a net worth of $2.4

million. >> Wow. >> And, um, I'm 57 years old. My wife is

49.

>> And we inherited 0 and0.

>> Every bit of it we've done ourselves.

>> Incredible. What's the 2.4 consist of?

>> Okay. It's uh, I got 1 million. We got 1 million in retirement. That's I rolled over TSP. I was uh in the military.

>> Okay. >> And then her 457. We got Roth. It's mostly an index funds. There's a little mutual funds in there. >> Yeah. >> And then non-retirement, we got our emergency fund of 30,000. And then we

put 260,000 in highpaying dividend ETFs.

My wife uh is uh really into that and it's paying dividends. >> That's great. >> And then we've got 890,000 in a brokerage account. >> Wow. And then our home, which we paid cash for in 2015, is worth about 200,000

now. >> That's amazing. Well done, Kelly. That's amazing. So, what kind of work do you both do? I mean, you mentioned the TSP and mentioned the military. Tell us about that. >> Yeah. Well, I'm retired military and my wife is still working. She's a nurse.

>> Okay. >> So, she's been able to work quite a bit of, you know, overtime is always there for her. >> Yeah. That's always >> one of the top careers we hear from people um that achieve a millionaire status is Yep. is uh Yep. in the medical

field in that way. Um okay. So, how long have you guys been married?

>> We got married in uh let me think here.

>> 2006. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Great. So what would you say maybe not as a maybe not as a married couple but as a you know while working what do you think the worst year

um financially how much did you make and then what was your best year and same with her if you know off the top of your head I'm just curious >> well when we first got married she wasn't working because she uh immigrated

here so >> okay yeah >> I probably made

probably like I was making 3540,000 in a

year. >> Okay. >> And we were we were deeply in debt. I was deeply in debt. Take that back.

>> So, um >> Oh, so you brought most of the debt into the relationship.

>> I brought all the debt. >> How much? >> You know, oh boy. How much did I have in debt back then? It was probably

uh I had student loans, car loans,

personal loans. I had it all. Yeah, I mean it. >> Yeah, it was probably close to uh 90,000. >> Wow. So, going from a negative net worth building it up to 2.4 million, what would you say the key? What were a couple of things that you did that you were like, this was this was a game changer for me.

>> I think the game changer was realizing that I had got myself in the mess and it

was me that's going to get myself out of the mess. >> That's so true. >> Yep. the personal responsibility aspect of it that you're going to be the thing that changes it.

Yes. >> And then I mean obviously you know you've got the spouse that's such an important part your partner and and accomplishing all this. I mean what would you say to the person? I mean we get calls all the time who they're trying to decide should I marry this person or maybe they're newly weds and they're trying to figure it out.

>> Oh for a couple uh one thing is you both

have to have the same principles and values.

you know, as far as money goes, if if

someone just doesn't mind being in debt and doesn't plan and doesn't set goals, I think that's a red flag because it's going to be a one-sided marriage and you're going to be carrying you're going to be carrying the burdens.

>> Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So, you never gave us the top number. So, the lower number was around 35. What did you guys get up to in order to accomplish this income? probably just uh

just recently because with our dividends and that's one thing that changed was the Robert Kiyosaki book when I read that and it said that the wealthy don't work for money their money works for them. >> That's what we've been able to do is increase our money our income by passive income. So now it's about 150,000.

>> Wow. Way to go. >> Well done. >> Way to go. >> But during your during just your working lifetime, did you guys ever break 100 grand? Would you say >> we did towards the end of my >> okay >> military career but that was only like

>> you know within like uh maybe like a uh two three

years ago. >> Yeah 100,000 >> that's what's impressive and I think what a lot of people need to hear is that you know your income is powerful right it helps but you don't have to be making $300,000 a year to become a millionaire. Absolutely. you could be making under six figures, right? Like just like Kelly, you and your wife did.

But it's the diligence. I mean, the amount you guys have in investments, whether it's ETFs or, you know, your um you know, your retirement, you have almost a million in retirement. I mean, all of that, like that stuff adds up.

And it's just the consistency and the diligence of what you guys did. Again, you guys weren't making 300 grand, right? You barely even hit six figures just, but that's only in the last few years. That's not what created it. It was the consistency of the investing and you guys being wise and paying off your home and all of it. So, absolutely >> well done. So, so well done. And just curious, what did what role did the budget play for you? Like, were you budgeters or how did you do this?

>> Well, the budget is we uh we tracked every expense. I mean, we really uh we really really were

diligent. We really were intentional.

And I've known a lot of people, like you said, they make a lot of money, but they're broke. >> Yep. Yeah. >> So, you know, basically we made sure that after, excuse me, we paid ourselves

first. Like they always say, we made put money into our investments first >> and then what was left, that's what we used to pay our living expenses. So, if

>> we had to cut back on certain things, we did. >> Yeah. >> You know, but we're we were buying our freedom is what we were doing. >> I love that. >> Well, well done. Well done, Kelly. And to your wife as well, what's her name?

>> Uh, her name is Eg. EG, well done, Kelly

and EG. You guys are an inspiration. And what I really truly love about your story is that so many people think if you walk the baby steps, you you're g you're you're going to be an old man by the time you're a millionaire. And I just love that you guys are young. I mean, you've got your whole life in front of you. And what's you know, you've just you've got, like you said, you bought your freedom and you've got your time back. So, well, well done.

Thank you so much for calling in and encouraging everybody. So, so good.

>> Thanks, Jade. >> You bet. You bet. >> Well done, Kelly. Well done.

>> I love a call like that, Rachel, because it just it's so inspiring for people to actually see what's possible if you walk in. >> Well, and especially him, right? He's 57. So, we'll make up an age of when he started all this. I think he said it was about 20 years ago, right? So, he's 37 $90,000 in consumer debt.

>> And it just shows that you can still make the change, right? Wherever you are, you can still make the change. And he went from nothing a negative >> Yes. >> Uh deeply in debt, you know, nothing. No one gave them a hand out as you said like no inheritance inheritance.

>> Um but it is it's the consistency of what you're doing day in and day out.

And you know we're not as blunt to say like you know you have to do retirement first before lifestyle necessarily. We are big on like you know you want to you want to give save and spend. And so um but that idea that my future's worth it

that I'm going to I I'm going to make that the priority not the lifestyle today that's a that's a different mindset than most people. Most people they want to feel good today, right? And I and I get that, right? But at at at what expense?

>> Yeah. At what expense? >> And what it is is not sacrificing what you want mo most for what you want now in the moment. And I love that.

You know, I think the number one advice that I give to people is guys, the time is going to pass anyway. If you're 30, one of these days you're going to be 50. And if you're 40, one of these days you're going to be 60. And what you do with that 10, 15, 20 years, it matters.

And usually, here's the thing, it really is just like a 2 or threeyear window that if you can just pour on the gasoline and do what you need to do for a very short period of time, it affects that entire 10, 15 year, 20 year window substantially. So, please, please, please let Kelly and I believe her name was Eig. >> I like that. Let that be your inspiration.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

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All

right, our Ramsay scripture and quote of the day. Proverbs 12:11 says, "Those who

work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies have no sense." Thomas Jefferson said, "I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more of it I have." So good. All right. Adam is in Detroit, Michigan. Adam, how can we help today?

>> Hi. So, I am in an interesting

situation. I have a job offer which would move me out of state into Indiana.

um where we are looking to sell our house and use the money from our house

debts and then live with my in-laws for a couple months. And I just kind of wanted to get uh your opinion and some non-biased thoughts on if this is a good

idea, what should I be thinking about?

>> Well, financially. >> The first question was if you use the money to pay off the debt, why wouldn't you just rent an apartment or rent a house? Why would you have to live with the in-laws?

Um they they're they have a very big house. It would save us additional money where we could basically put my entire check to the side where we wouldn't

>> be, you know, spending just to spend.

You know, that's why I don't want to get into renting again. I think it would >> How much debt do you guys have, Adam?

>> Uh including my student loans, about 40,000. >> Okay. And um how much would this um if

you did was it you you were selling?

>> Correct. >> And how much would you get from that?

>> Uh I would say after uh the sale of the house and realtor fees and all that probably about 90k.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So you clear the debt and you're left with 50. That's your emergency fund. And

the >> How much do you guys make a year?

>> I'm sorry. >> How much do you make a year? I make 100,000. >> Why don't you just pay off the 40,000 and stay in your home?

>> Uh it Well, the job moves me. Um >> Oh, that's right. You said that. Oh, I'm sorry.

You were moving. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I got you.

>> Okay. So, once you take the job, you'll be making $100,000. You'll have no debt plus $50,000, part of which would be your emergency fund. I just How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're both 29. We turned 30 this year. >> Do you have kids? >> We have three kids.

>> Oh, man. I just can't see why you would need to live with family because you'll be in you'll have no debt. You'll have plenty of savings.

>> Are you are you um are you guys familiar with the area? Like would you want to know when when you buy a house where you want to be? >> Yeah. So, I mean I went to college in the area. My wife is from the area originally. >> Okay. >> So, we're very familiar. We have a lot of family and friends in the area.

>> Okay. Um, >> do you um >> My main thought was to, you know, take a

couple months to basically save up for 20% down on a house that we want.

>> And how Yeah. How how many Yeah. How long would you be there, would you say?

>> Uh, we said max 6 months we And that's

why I want to be smart about how much I pay off. >> So, >> versus how much I keep to the side.

>> Here's where we always

I feel like I don't know, especially Jade and I like we're on the same page with this. Well, we always kind of caution against the idea of just moving back home or moving in with, you know, the family. Um, because for the most of

the time, people just have this vague idea, hey, I'm going to move back home to pay off debt. And then you dig into the numbers and they've been home for six months, like, well, how much are you saving? Like, well, I, you know, I've actually gone $2,000 in credit card debt or whatever. And you're like, how have you gone in debt when you're living at home and you're saving money?

Because they don't really do it, right? they just kind of have this idea of it. It's not driven. It's not specific.

There's not a timeline.

would be I would somewhat entertain it for you guys in this situation is it's short enough. It's 6 months and to move somewhere and move out and get a six-month lease, you know, might be somewhat of a headache. Um, you know what you're going to be putting away.

And I would just say if you choose to do this, be be diligent about it because I

do think living with family over the long term, it just can erode the you know what I mean? Like there's a tension point to it >> and it's five of y'all that's a lot.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So if you guys know for sure there's an end timeline. It's no more than six months.

We're going to get because we're moving anyways. Like I don't know. I I would be I would be somewhat okay with it, Adam. Again, you guys have to be diligent cuz some people get in these situations and more than like or more than what we see.

They just get lazy about it. >> Sure. >> And they don't really put what they think they're going to put away um and all of it. So, you just have to be diligent.

>> Yeah. I I think the one the one thought process we had is my entire check which I which is about 6,000 a net a month.

>> Mhm. >> Uh I would set the entire 6 grand off to the side and it would just go into a separate account with the 50k that we have left over. >> Yeah. >> And my wife's account would pay for the car payments and the car insurance and all that stuff. >> Car payments. I thought that you were would be totally debtree. Uh they I have two leases. So those those I didn't include those in the 40,000. >> When are those leases up?

>> Uh her lease is up in May and then mine has another two years on it.

>> Oh boy. >> Are y'all going to be paying for it to to to own the car? Are you guys just done after the lease and have to, you know, buy a new car?

>> Uh we talked about possibly buying out her lease on her car >> and then um >> soing from there. those act obviously add to the timeline.

>> So, I mean, I would sit and and plan

that out because obviously my next question for you before you said the lease was going to be how much do you need to save up for this down payment?

Like, what's the exact number and run that back? But now you have to add in, okay, what is it going to cost to possibly buy buy out these leases or what's it going to cost at the end of the lease to now buy something in cash, right? So, those are real numbers in the

higher thousands to be aware of. Um, and

that could really set this on a longer journey. So, if you had to spitball it right now, what would you say the cost car-wise is going to be for you guys?

>> It's a great question. I know like our monthly payments right now is about 800 between the two cars. >> Between the two. Okay.

So, your wife's is over in May. I mean, that's creeping up here in a little bit. What do you think you'll do? I mean, >> go buy a $6,000 car with one of your month's paychecks.

>> Yeah.

There's no parameter to keep you in line. So, just be aware of that. If I had to vote for this, and I think Rachel and I are split. If I had to vote for it, I think I'd vote no. I think I'd vote get get an up get like rent somewhere and decide if you like the area and be on your own with your three kids. But if you didn't do that, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. The decision is not going to make or break you. It just could create bad habits though >> um that you don't even realize because the lifestyle creep that could happen.

again hypothetical but you know you're not paying for the you know it's just it's just that ongoing which you guys know you're adults Adam I mean you guys have done you you've been homeowners you know you know the deal >> but um it's just that it's just getting lazy on any of the numbers and then actually pushing things that you wouldn't have pushed otherwise like getting a nicer car that you wouldn't have done if you were paying rent paying bill like living in reality changes the numbers you're going to be living in reality hopefully in 6 to 8 months you know when you when you have a house, but making sure always too, Adam, that you guys have that emergency funds and all of it.

So, yeah, you and your wife um that's the homework is figuring out what these create real numbers. Don't just make it something up in the clouds. Say tonight or sit down this weekend and say, "Okay, lease is coming up in May. What's the plan?

What are we going to spend?" and make a hard concrete number and then decide about your lease and say are we really going to ride this car payment thing out for two more years or you know can we buy this thing out decide and figure out whatever research due diligence you have to do get that actual number and then from there it's then saying okay realistically in this area to get the payment underneath 25% of our take-home pay what must our down payment be and you might look at that number and go oh gosh in order for us to do that >> is going to take longer that could like 10 months or that could be like 14 months and then that might cause you to pull back a little bit and decide, do we really want to live with in-laws for over a year?

So, I can just see this snowballing really quickly. So, just be on top of it. >> Yeah. And the hard thing with lease cars, too, is usually, not always, >> you know, you usually can afford a lease payment of a nicer car than if you got a car payment, right?

And so, even the type of car you guys, if you don't do the buyout that you're going to get, it may not be as nice as the current car you're driving, too. So, just be be thinking through kind of the scenario and don't let your lifestyle creep, you know, outweigh smart decisions. >> So true.

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## 99. Lean Into Hard Things—That’s Where Change Happens | October 31, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `6C5pCmFtb8c` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C5pCmFtb8c) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:00:40 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz.

>> Here we are. Here we are >> back again. >> We slapped it up, flipped it, and reverse it. And I'm driving today and we're here to help you make the next right move in your money and your work and your relationships, your life. Let's go out to Boston to Boston and get a loa and talk to Derek. Uh, let's see here.

What's up, Derek? How we doing, brother?

>> Hey, how we doing, team?

>> We're good, man. What's up?

>> Awesome, man. Hey, so um been watching you guys for a little while. Um, love the content. Um, I am currently with my

significant other. We've been together for three years. Um, in in the last three years, we've been able to overcome a lot of obstacles such as, you know, alcoholism and some addiction. And, um,

we're on the right path. We just had a baby, but when it comes to finances, uh,

it seems that we have a hard time communicating and getting on the same page. So, um I I love what you guys do

and I figured I'd give you a shout and just see uh you know if you could help point us in the right direction. >> Dude, that's fantastic, man. So, tell me about um you said overcoming alcoholism.

That's a that's a that's a a bold

statement, man. Tell me how y'all are working through that.

>> Honestly, it was just a decision. Uh you know, one day uh I I started with me. I

was just tired of the way life was going and uh you know had a lot of things that had happened that were just you know I guess would say rock bottom and >> very cool. Are you going to meetings every day? >> I'm not but I will never touch it again.

I'm I'm It's been three years and I'm

I'm in a good spot now. >> I'm proud of you, man. That's fantastic. >> Yeah, it's amazing. >> All right. So, when you come when you say it's hard to get on the same page with money, tell me about that.

Um right now uh you know because of the baby I am the sole income. Um you know

she she came into a little bit of money by selling some land. Um I am the one

that's paying for most of the bills and whatnot and uh you know she's paying down her debts. Um but uh it's just it's

when I'm you know paying for most of the bills it's been hard for me to build up my my savings account. Um, and uh, so

it's just, you know, how to figuring out how to navigate through this. It's uh, it's tough. You know what I mean?

>> You're not going to like the way I start this, okay? And so you can just ignore me, but I I've got to say this. You're going to continue to struggle mightily in this area, especially now that y'all are linked forever because y'all created a human together until you decide to marry this person. and y'all get married and you decide that individually y'all's stuff is now y'all's stuff. >> Yeah. Cuz the hard thing, Derek, is it's almost like you guys are playing house.

You're playing marriage without it actually being that. And that keeps being the runin of I'm having to provide

because I have a baby and a girlfriend

who's dependent upon my income now in order to support herself >> and she's paying for her debts with her land that she sold. >> It's very convoluted. I want to get my savings. You get what I'm saying? The path forward here is for y'all to >> make official what y'all have been dancing around for a while and then go full in. It's y'all's debt. It's y'all's money from the land sale. It's y'all's savings account. And then you begin

building this thing together.

>> Yeah. >> Is marriage in the discussion, Derek, at all?

[snorts] >> Um, it's been a thought. She's been married before, we we haven't really had this conversation, but um

>> Yeah. Okay. So, I would say where you guys are at relationally from a from a financial perspective, which is difficult because again, she just had a baby. Is she going to go back to work or is she on maternity leave? What's her um what's her plan?

>> Um I the the plan as for right now is

for me to be the the sole income just because I I do make a decent amount of money. >> Okay. Yeah. So what I mean what I would say though, Derek, is again because of the situation, if I were her almost if she had called in, I would tell her girl, "You got to go to work because he could wake up tomorrow and be like, >> "I'm done.

I'm done." And then and then she's screwed. And there's no official marriage. So there's nothing no nothing the courts can do. There's no splitting assets.

Like there's nothing on her end that's protecting her. And so that scares me for her. So what I would say in a perfect world, she goes and gets a job. You're working.

And if you guys choose to live together, not be married, you're splitting the bills 5050.

because she has to learn how to support herself because if you end up walking out her she's she's up a creek, you know? And so I'm not saying you're going to do that. I hope you're not. But the fact that y'all haven't even talked about marriage, I'm like, >> and and and here's the the second layer here, dude, is um

she's just over there making her plans.

So even your language like I guess I'm I guess she's just going to stay at home. Oh my good. Here's what money does. It reveals what you what matters to y'all

>> to both of you. And it also reveals your shared values. It reveals the path y'all

have decided to take together.

>> What you're scared of, your fears, >> what? Yeah. What what freaks you out? And so maybe for you, money is revealing. I need some I'm a I'm a I'm a dad now, man. I need some savings

>> to feel safe. And she might say, I'm a mom now.

to build together and then money is going to reveal the path. Do we want to get let's get out of debt as quick as we can? Let's get some savings so that we can both exhale in this house so this baby doesn't grow up in a house of tension. Let's decide, okay, we're going to stay at home.

You're going to stay home for a year, maybe two years. We want to have a second kid. Right? You see all these deeper values conversations.

Money just reveals. It's just the it's just the lights on the dashboard that are telling you where you're going and how how good your car is. >> Yeah, makes sense. So, if you sit down with her and say, "How about this?

the the the premium version, the best budgeting app, and y'all sat down, could y'all create something together?" >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Would you would you have the courage to do the next right thing with

her and say, "I'm interested in I know you got burned in a previous marriage.

I'm interested in being in your life forever and in this baby's life forever." Absolutely. >> Okay.

That to me is is the next what I would say is the responsible thing. And dude, I've been digging into all the data on marriage. And if people decide that we're going to be married together, it takes both of you. We want to have a good or great marriage. Every part of your life improves. It's a it's extraordinary. Financial, the amount of sex you have, the the how your health outcomes, everything is a a massive ROI

on that way. But you have to both choose that we're going to do this thing together.

>> Yeah, that makes perfect sense. >> Yeah. And you and you guys do have, you know, not that everyone has it easy by any means, but I mean you guys have come over addiction. She's been married previously. So there's there's some >> you can do hard things. Yeah. >> Yes. There's some elements here that are really, I think, great for you guys that I mean it just shows that you guys can persevere uh push through, but don't let those things also keep you stuck.

>> Yeah. They can act like shadows. Like, uhoh, what about remember when?

>> Man, you've overcome. You're here. You've done amazing things.

>> Now, we're going to take the next harder step, which in my opinion is y'all sit down and have a hard conversation about getting married and making this thing official so both of y'all can feel safe and then joining this thing and knocking [music] out the debt and the savings together.

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You do not have to buy anything to be able to win. Let's go out to Austin, Texas to the 512 and talk to Sam. What up, Sam?

>> Hi. How's it going? >> Good, brother. How are you, man?

>> Living the dream out here. Living the dream. >> Very cool. Y'all recovered from that F1 trip. That was a wild weekend, huh?

>> F1 trip. I don't It's been a team weekend here. I'm not sure. >> Oh, good. I think a few weeks ago there was that F1 like 5 million people showed up in Austin, Texas. Wild, dude.

>> Oh, yeah. No, we're a little on the outskirts. So >> Oh, very good. Well done. Well done. All right. So, what's up, brother?

>> Yeah. I'm just trying to get some guidance on how to uh merge mine and my

girlfriend's finances.

Tell me more.

>> Um, so I make before taxes about 88. She

makes about 35. And uh, it, you know, we

spend most of our relationship together sort of broke college kids. And I'm about a year and a half into actually making some good money. And I'm just thinking, you know, why is she paycheck to paycheck and I'm over here, you know, putting into my retirement savings and all these things? That doesn't seem right.

So, I'm trying to find sort of the best way to merge those two. Um, and ideally kind of maintain a little bit of independence. You know, I'd like for her to have a savings account for her goals and me for mine and something for our goals as well. So, >> what's the situation?

>> Okay. Um, the number of people that we

have talked to over the years that combined income when they were dating or paid off each other's debt or bought each other a car or both bought a house together and then they broke up. And I know y'all are perfect. Y'all are never going to break up, but I would not have a job if everyone's plans worked out the way they thought, right? Mhm.

>> And the thing about we always tell people when you get married, the day you get home from your honeymoon, put everything in the same account, right?

>> But um and this sounds kind of gross to say, but when you're married, there's a legal process for separating assets, >> right? >> When you're just college kids, there's not. >> And you can find yourself in a situation where you've paid for somebody to go to college and then she just breaks up with you because the quarterback >> pay for her life, >> right? Or you pay for her life for you or whatever. I'd much rather you get yourself set up and become the most

marriable version of yourself possible and begin practicing these things in your life. And if you want to pay for dinners and all that, that's awesome.

Um, and you want to make sure she never has to, I don't know, yeah, buy buy meals and you can take her on a trip, like whatever you want to do, fine. I would not get into combining finances and saving together and creating retirement plan. I mean, I just wouldn't get I wouldn't go down that road, man, because there's no path for separation when it goes sideways.

>> Interesting. So, excuse me. I'm I'm getting all dry in the throat because I'm nervous being on >> No, you're good. You're good. >> Uh >> I'm not very good at this, man. You don't have to be nervous about anything. [laughter] >> Does Does your answer change or your

viewpoint change at all if I say, "Okay, we've been together seven years. I mean, we you know, have I say we we live in a home together, right? We've built a home. that does not mean we own a house together. Um, and if anything is the next step, it is marriage. Does that change your answer at all or would you say no there's a ring?

>> No. Okay. >> Because I mean I talked to people who who've been married for 20 years and they split up. So yeah, >> people that have just Yeah. Yeah. Um, and for her Sam for her sake kind of like the last caller, you know, I think about it from her perspective and you were like it feels unfair that she, you

know, I can't remember the wording you said and I'm like no it is fair. she's working and making $35,000 and she has to learn how to manage that well within herself because you know if I don't know I and who knows what happens right and like John said you I'm sure y'all will be together forever which is great but if not if for some reason in six months something changes >> and she's been dependent upon you for so long >> um and you're and you walk out >> well then she's got to figure out a whole life with making $35,000.

guys did you buy a house together? Are you renting together? What?

>> No, we're renting together. >> Renting. Okay. So, yeah, if what I would advise you guys to do is you just split everything 50/50. Um, and if you choose

to do something different, that's totally fine, but just remember always in the back of your head that this is your income that's not protected at all from a legal standpoint because there's no marriage. And um and if something

were to happen, you're you're just going to have to say swallow the pill of dang, for two years I >> put her through college. >> I probably Yeah. There's probably, you know, $30,000 or whatever that I gave to this woman that I'm not going to have in my retirement, X, Y, and Z. Um Right.

>> So So if you do, so I would go 50/50 on everything. That's what I would do because I would want her >> to understand how she needs to budget and the decisions she has to make. And again, like John said, if you want to, if you want to pay for dates or whatever you want to do, you can. But just know that the any amount of money that you are going over on her end over her 50%,

it's a little bit of a gamble financially. >> It's a gift. If y'all been together seven years, what are you waiting for?

>> Um, >> or do you use Dave's language? Y'all are playing house. Why Why not go make it official and start building something with deep roots to it?

>> Sure. Well, to be honest, the reason is because deep roots got me got my dad living on someone's couch after it didn't work and it got her mom donating plasma to keep food on the table after their deep roots didn't work. >> Okay, >> that's sort of the main thing. And >> so, let me let me let me let me take that and I I think that's a very real honest answer that nobody ever gives me.

And so, I want to shout you out. I would hug you if you were here because that's a that's a very honest answer. You've seen marriage go awful >> and so you're hesitant to jump into that. What I would tell you is that's like going to the gym and seeing somebody lifting weights, seeing a whole bunch of people lifting weights. Maybe you went to one of the original CrossFit gyms and everybody's getting hurt.

That doesn't mean that exercise is bad.

In fact, exercise is really, really important. What then becomes important is I got to learn how to do this well and do this right and do this safely over the long haul.

>> Right? And so if you look at the marriage on data, there's a reason Jeff Bezos is getting remarried, >> there's a reason why the the people who are running these massive that's why they all go do it is because it has deep

powerful benefits that are spiritual, that are emotional, that are financial, that are sexual. It's got all of it's incredible. If you make the decision to

go all in and learn those skills that

your parents didn't have >> and avoiding it or trying to do a hack around it, which is we're just going to do everything but that that actually is going to set you up to get you into more trouble down the road. >> Statistics are are worse what what you guys are doing. >> But dude, I your fear is is real honest.

It's wired into your nervous system, man. You've got a you've got a picture of a car wreck. That doesn't mean you never drive again. That means you go sit with a professional. That means you learn how to drive really, really well, defensively and safely so that you can drive for the long haul. >> Because too, Sam, I'm sure you guys want to start a family, right? I mean, you would love to have kids with her, I would assume.

>> Yeah, we're not so certain about that.

>> Okay, never mind. >> Jeez, Rachel, [laughter] relax.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say that's >> Kids are great. >> Sorry. you. [laughter] Hey, you're here because somebody had kids, but you called you

called just for um just for the budgeting part. >> Um but >> how old are you guys? >> Yeah. How old are you?

>> I just turned 29. She's going to be 28 here in a second. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> The the the the best thing I can tell you to do is to have a deeper conversation about facing that fear.

>> Okay. >> Your anxiety when it comes to getting married is real and it's earned and I honor that. And I'll tell you, every bit

of data says if you will go in and do the hard work of having a good or great marriage, everything in your life is

better. >> Gotcha. Okay. Well, I appreciate it, guys.

>> You're the man. Appreciate you, brother. We wish you the best. And if uh you want to come down here to Nashville and get married, >> um there is a pedal tavern waiting for you and all of your friends because this is where everybody comes before they get married.

Did you get a pedal tavern, Rachel? No, you >> I was married 15 16 years ago. They didn't have those here. >> Oh, they didn't.

No. >> Oh, they had horse and carriages and all that stuff [laughter] back then. >> It's a long time ago.

>> Oh, man. >> Just a bunch of people. >> Man, Sam, I'd like for y'all to have kids. I don't know. >> They're going to after you get married. >> I like Sam. >> Sam's a real deal. >> Mhm. >> We'll be right back.

>> [music]

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[music]

Let's go out to Denver, [music] Colorado, and talk to the great and wonderful Aubrey. Hey, Aubrey. What's up? >> Hi. Um, I'm excited to be talking to you guys. I'm doing good. >> I am excited to talk to you. What's going on?

Um, well, I've been following your content more recently. I I really like the things that you share, especially around marriage. Um, and that's something like I've applied to my life, so I've been married for about 10 years.

My husband and I have three kids. Um, >> y'all are in it right now.

>> Yeah. So, hopefully you don't hear any screaming, but um, we've got kids at our

house, too. It's all good. [laughter] >> Thanks. We're we're we're happy. We've been working really hard financially, so we both work. Um, and uh, we do

we're working really well towards our goals. Um, and so the reason I'm calling today is um, I've I like to try and turn

around and and pay it forward. And so I've um, we've been helping my mom out.

So my mom, she's a single lady. She has my sister who's about 11 and they have

been moving in and out of apartments, not great apartments and such. And so we're blessed enough to have two houses.

We live in one and they both have Airbnb basement. So we decided to rent the second one, the top level to my mom and my sister. And with the with the condition of like, hey, we're going to be Airbnbing the the basement because we live near ski resorts. So that's been really good for us. Um and she understood that. And we give her reduced rent. Um we do make her pay rent, but reduced just because we want to help her out. >> Sure. Very cool.

>> Yeah. And uh it hasn't it's been a couple years and we've kind of run into some major problems. So >> what are the Yeah. What are the problems? >> She kind of is a hoarder. Um and so at

first it wasn't bad, but it like accumulates over time, which at first I was like, you know what? Like I'm going to let her like live in the house the way she wants to as long as the outside of the house is okay. >> Um but long story short, um we now have a cockroach infestation in the house, which is really bad. and we got a lot of

like bad Airbnb reviews and so we just we just had to cut the Airbnb income which is not great. >> Yeah. >> And so we're trying to navigate that because I obviously we want to help my mom but at the same time it's kind of biting us in the butt. So I'm calling to see if you have any recommendations.

>> Yeah. Remember this line, the tension is the path.

>> Okay. >> So that sounds all woowoo. where the uncomfortable conversation is, that's where you got to head directly.

>> Yeah. >> And so you guys know what has to happen here. Either there's two there's there's two things y'all know have to happen. Either she's got to move out and y'all have to have exterminators come in. Y'all going to have to do some work on that place and get it back up and running. Or she gets to stay under some very strict new rules. One of which is no hoarding.

We're going to have a cleaning crew.

We're like we're going to do some of those things. um or the and and y'all know that one of those two things has to be true. And so the path is not trying to figure out a nice way to do that because it's nothing you do moving forward is going to be received as nice.

>> Yeah. >> And you've probably been doing this dance your whole life, right?

>> Yeah. Unfortunately. >> Yeah. And it breaks my heart for you. It breaks my heart for your mom, especially this 11-year-old little girl.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um but you all have to take that path in directly towards it. And now if you if you sit down and say, "Here's not, "Hey, mom, we need to but hey, this is what's going to happen next.

If you want to stay in this house, um we're going to have a cleaner come in. We're going to have all the stuff's going to have to be removed, and we're going to have somebody come in every 30 days and check the house. If you want to stay here, great." Will she pack up and move um and throw a fit or would she exhale and say, "Thank you." >> I I honestly don't know. Um I think it could go either way. So, um, that's kind

of tricky. And >> here's what's going to happen. If you say nothing and you do nothing, >> the house just goes into further dis. It ends up with her leaving at some point.

>> Yeah. >> And so, um, also, here's another great line to put in your back pocket. Choose guilt over resentment.

>> Choose the guilt of the hard conversation and not she doesn't deserve

you're resenting her existence. And if you let her live there and just destroy this house from the inside out, I'm going to put that back in your court

>> because you didn't want to have hard conversations because it was going to make you feel bad. It was going to hurt your mom's feelings. And so every time her phone you pick up your phone and she's called in, you're going to resent the fact that she's there.

>> You're going to resent the fact that she's calling you. you're gonna resent the fact that she >> they have a little bit of that now because you had to close the Airbnb, you know, like I'm like >> and and you even knew like, well, she's kind of a hoarder, but as long as she keeps it here and as long as you knew how it was going to end, right? And so it's you just saying, okay, I'm going to own what I've got to own here and then I'm going to create what happens next.

>> Yeah. Um, one way I could see it going

too, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, is like us laying the ground rules like, "Hey, this needs to happen in order for you to stay." and her like saying like, "Oh, yeah, sure." and then not really following them.

So, [laughter] how would you navigate that? Like, you give her one warning and then say, "Sorry, we're going to end your lease." >> Well, I would put some things in place.

>> Uhhuh. >> Like a cleaning crew will come here every 30 days or every two weeks. I'm going to put that on your rent.

>> Um or we're going to cover it, but somebody will be here every every two weeks. Um, if the we're going to double

the trash service, I would put some very concrete things in place that are really outside of her control. These things aren't going to help her to help her because these are things to like >> correct. Yeah. This is this is in service of her and of that home.

>> But to your point, Aubrey, if for some reason it's just it's unmanageable and the cleaners are like, we can't even >> we can't get in the door. >> Yeah. Then all of it um Yeah. Then then to me that is a that that that that's her then breaking the boundary that you guys set and that's on her at that point not you.

So she has in that sense displaced herself because she didn't keep the rules of the property which any landlord would have right it's just messy that it's her daughter right was she kicked out of you said that she was going from apartment to apartment.

one I think she was politely kicked out

and um the other one I actually don't

know but I know she got in a big actual legal disagreement with the landlord over her um security deposit.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So, she has a history of not being a great tenant, right?

>> Yeah. And we knew that. And maybe another thing to put on the table if y'all are in a financial position is to say, "We're going to pay for six months for you to go see somebody finally

>> and you've had a hard life. We know you've had a hard life and you struggle with various mental health challenges and emotional challenges. We're going to put we got six months of counseling.

We're going to put that, but this is contingent. Um, if you want to stay, you got to go see somebody and we're going to pay for it." >> Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. That's a great suggestion. Thank you.

Um, but that might give her an excuse to go, uh, fine, I'll go see somebody so I can keep my house. But it lets her hang on to like the illusion of dignity while going to actually get the care that she knows. She knows she needs I've never met a hoarder who wants to be in that situation.

>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. >> But it's that compulsion. It's just it's just this inner engine that just keeps running. And so maybe that's another way to help. But it's going to come down to you having some really clear, firm here's the boundary and here's the exit strategy if and when this happens.

>> Are your husband where is he in the picture? Is he is he overly frustrated?

Is he like done or is he have like tons of grace and he's on the other side of you even?

>> He So I I kind of poor guy. I kind of

put him in as a mediator because my mom and I don't have a great history. I I basically do it for my little sister and he's on board with that. 100% on board.

Yeah, >> he's definitely like on the frustrated side. >> Um because we've had to replace the fridge because she was, you know, putting too much stuff in the fridge and other things and >> Okay. So, Aubrey, I'm going to ask John.

>> Yeah. You have to relieve him of that.

>> Yeah. You got to put him in that situation. You have to be the one.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's fair.

>> Hug him and say, [laughter] "Thank you for going first and he went out on his shield for you and it's time for you to just to just to to step up." and or y'all can do it together obviously, but um my rule of thumb is the the child of

the parent needs to go first.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

>> It's hard. It's hard, Aubrey. I mean, we get calls and not necessarily with the specific thing, but whenever a grown adult passes their parent.

>> Yeah, it's tough. >> And they end up having to parent their parent. Do you know what I mean? Like from that emotional side, all of it, like it's just it's it's really really hard. Um, so I think y'all's generosity

and you lending out kind of that olive branch to her, wanting to help her in life and for your sister, I understand that's part of the motivation is just so beautiful. It's so wonderful. But being able to do it, I think in a way that's good for you guys, too, right? That you're not Yes. Exactly.

>> Is there a chance your um sister can move in with you?

>> Oh, I would wish that, but I don't think that's ever going to be a possibility.

Okay. >> Yeah. Y'all have got some hard conversations to have. I would sit down with your husband and y'all write these things out and I would probably put everything in writing and then you all sit down and have the next hard conversation. The tension is the path here.

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All right, let's go out to Indiana and talk to David. What's up, David? How we doing, brother?

>> Doing good. How you all doing? >> Doing great. What's going on, man?

>> Uh, not too much. I just had a question uh about buying silver. Uh, we had some friends that that that did that and they got, you know, pretty big returns on that and we were just we didn't know if that was a good decision or not.

>> No, not a great one. Um, just because David, usually commodities like that, gold, silver, all of it is so dependent upon honestly the fear of what's going on in the current moment. So if something bad's happening around the world, usually that stuff spikes and then if everything's good and everything's fine, it dips. And so um,

you can really see a correlation with the amount of fear that the American people have in life and if it's if there's a lot going on and something scary is happening, all of those prices go up. And so um so overall your

investment strategy should just be in the market. It sounds more boring and all of it. And people also will take on

precious metals and stuff for not just an investment purpose but they do it for like an end of the world apocalyptic you

know plan. Um to think that if something were to happen to the US dollar like that they have a bunch of gold and stuff. And listen I love conspiracy theory. I could uh [laughter] I could go down that rabbit hole really fast, but the truth is if everything in if literally the US dollar did just completely crash, like if if we had no currency, but but gold and silver,

that's not even going to be something that's worth it because at that point, >> I still have to trade that for coffee. >> The way the world Yeah. I mean, it's going to be ammo and food and clean water like Right. Like I'm like, it's that that's not even a little bag of gold. Everyone's like, I don't need that. I need food and shelter. Right. So at that point um so just overall yeah

just an investment strategy that's just more proven over time has a longer track record of a consistent you know an idea of like a consistent return that you can see it is it's still in the market >> and here like the existentially or

philosophically like you've got that answer right but I would tell you like okay >> on the ground >> the wealthiest guy I know personally that I hang out with is Dave Ramsey and he owns zero dollars of silver or gold commodities.

>> Okay, >> that's for me and my house.

>> We owe zero dollars of silver and gold.

So, I don't put my personal money for me and my family into that stuff.

>> Okay, that that was kind of my what I was thinking, but I just kind of wanted to make sure. I know we did the total money makeover and, >> you know, we have our money in, you know, in a 401k and then some CDs. Yeah, >> I've been retired for five years, but we just heard some, you know, someone was, >> you know, bought quite a bit of it and the price of silver went up, but that was I I was kind of leaning toward, you know, what you all just said, but I just >> Yes.

Yeah. And you know what? And they could have, you know, they could have sold when it was high. >> You can scratch a lottery ticket, dude.

Everybody does. They And somebody wins every day.

Someone said this years ago, and I was like, that is so true. They're like, "If they have commercials on cable TV, it's always reverse mortgages buying gold and silver and walk-in bathtubs." Like, like [laughter] that's the that's the >> there's a market they are praying on.

>> I mean, genuinely. So, you're like, "Okay, if they're going after a group of people um you know, for these things

like reverse, all of it." I'm like, "Eh, probably not the product that I want to put my my money into."

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I know I've I've, you know, heard Dave say that the more the higher interest that you get on on investment, the riskier it is.

>> Well, not necessarily, but it's it's

>> it becomes more of a of a lottery shoot, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of >> and I mean, I would say you look at the stock market last year, David, if you guys looked at your 401k, it was like >> 24%. I mean it was last year was crazy

crazy returns and that was very safe all

in you know index funds or mutual funds nothing nothing wild. So um so sure the economy can go up and down absolutely but it's not as volatile as commodities or precious metals like what you're saying. So yeah from an investment strategy we would uh we'd say now you're better off doing Yep. having your money exactly what you're doing.

>> Keep being boring dude. just keep being boring because that same friend's going to come back next month and be like, "I just lost all my pants on silver." And you're gonna be like, "Oh, well, there you go." Just goes up and down, up and down. Let's go out to Pennsylvania and talk to Sean. Where is he?

What's up, Sean?

>> Hey, how you doing?

>> Good for my call. >> What's up? >> Hey. Okay, so my wife was a travel nurse

and we financed an RV fifth wheel and uh

currently upside down on it by $40,000.

>> Oh man, >> dude. That's a that's a kick in the guts, man. >> Yeah. And so we bought a house because we were going to we decided to settle down and we're going to get rid of the RV. Well, when we went to go get rid of the RV, we found out that we were 40,000 upside down.

>> Okay. >> And >> can I ask who who gave you the estimate of what it's worth today?

>> Um I I blueooked it.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> And I've I've tried private settlement.

I've tried going to a dealership. Dealership of course is going to get give you >> Yeah. >> very low number on. >> So what did y'all What did y'all buy it for? uh bought it for $100,000 >> and it's worth now because I'm sure

>> it's worth >> we we've uh had it for a couple years.

Uh >> we owe 80,000 on it right now and it's

currently worth 40.

>> Man, do you have any savings?

>> Uh $1,000 baby emergency fund.

>> Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> 180,000. >> Okay. Well, that's a good thing. I mean, >> roughly, >> honestly, Sean, at this point, I would I

would still, you know, if someone will take it, that's great. You're just gonna have to pay the difference. Um, and a part of me would love for y'all to save up and have that cash versus going and taking out a smaller loan. But if you if you did get if you have it for sale and for some reason someone like I don't know, messaged you and was like, "Oh, great.

I would love to buy this thing." Then you'd have to go get a small loan for the difference. >> Well, it would be small. Be a $40,000 loan. compared to 80,000.

I'm trying to help Sean out. [laughter] I'm just saying I'm saying it's no big deal. You can do this.

>> Yes. >> That might just be this one, brother.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> A very painful painful 40,000. I mean, I

can't even That's a lot of money, dude. But that hurts. But there's not a quick other pass. >> It feel Yeah. It feels better than 80.

>> Yeah. >> I And I kind of got I was I got a little dumb with it. LA. Uh, last year I went

to go sell it to a dealership and they were going to give me 54 and I was like, "Well, it's kind of still a little low.

I'm upside down like $25,000." And then

I went to go do it this year and they're like, "Oh, we'll give you 40." And I was like, "Oh, that turn." >> Yeah. Those things depreciate off. I know. Anything with motors and wheels is just a >> all the way down.

>> Um, yeah. I mean that I mean that's just what you're going to have to do, Sean. I hate to say it, but um but but I would but I would rather pay off 40,000 than 80. So I hope you get it sold and and and I would just put the 40,000 like a like baby step too.

>> Um so of course you've got we've got the house and then I've got a couple of personal loans, couple credit cards.

>> How how much is how much are those?

>> Uh credit cards uh roughly about 25,000.

>> Okay. Um, personal loan. I've got a uh that's

about uh well I pay it's like5 $7,000 for the

personal loan. >> Okay.

Uh and that's it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So yeah. Yeah. It'll be around,000 beater card. >> Yep. That's good. That's good. Yeah. So 70,000. But you guys uh ton you make

180, right?

I mean, before taxes. So, yeah. I mean, I would I would force myself, Sean. You know, golly, I would try to live on nothing.

Beans and rice. Rice and beans. Yeah. I mean, like, oh, easily. Yeah, for sure.

Give yourself 18 months and y'all just knock it out and just do nothing with your lives but work and eat at home and

pay this debt off.

>> All right. that I'm sure we've we've

struggled before and we've, >> you know, pulled ourselves out of it before. So, when this kind of was, >> okay, let's don't do that anymore. Let's learn. Stop. Let's cut up the cut up the credit cards. No more personal loans.

Like, once you guys get through this and pay it off, be done. Be done with it.

Learn. Like, everyone does stupid stuff.

So, there's nothing there's no shame in that. But, it's kind of stupid to go back and redo stupid stuff over and over again. [laughter] Like, we don't want to do that. >> And and and we we did it.

We did it because we were we were actually treating it as a house for the RV cuz >> Yeah, but it's a terrible investment. Real estate goes up, RVs go down. So, you guys need to do some do some more digging and research. >> It's one of those things like we wanted this to be true, so we figured out a way to make it true and that choice just came up back and bit [music] you to the 40 grand.

Totally.

Y'all be debtree in no time. Let's get after it.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, [music] we're here here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel, the one and only Cruz, and we are going to walk alongside you as we figure out what's the next right step with your money, with your relationships, with your work, whatever you got going on in your life, we are here to help. Let's go out to New York City. Man, they have not

been in the news recently. And talk to Nicole. What's up, Nicole?

>> Hi. >> How's it going?

>> I'm doing okay. Happy to be on the phone with you guys. >> We are happy that you called. What's going on?

So, I'm calling um currently on baby step two. My husband and I have paid off

um all of our credit card debt um over

the past couple years. We paid off our cars and most of my student loans.

>> Good for you guys. Well done.

>> Yeah, that's awesome. >> Thank you. However, over the past four years, um my husband, he developed a gambling problem. Uh >> oh. >> Um we >> Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. Take a breath. You're good. >> You're good. >> We worked so hard to pay off all of this money and now he had racked up around

21,000 of credit cards and

depleted pretty much all of our savings.

>> Um he was laid off unfortunately um in

May. He was unemployed for the past five

months and he actually just started a new job this week. So that's >> finally something positive.

>> Yeah. >> Um I just feel conflicted because I feel

like we were working so hard to make so much progress and then we took a big step backwards

and now I have all of this credit card debt um that I feel like is just like

another mountain to climb and I feel conflicted. Do I pay off the credit card debt that he racked off? Um, we had separated our accounts in the process of all of this because I kind of wanted to get a better handle on things. >> Yeah.

Which you should have. Got to keep yourself safe. That was the right move. That's right.

>> And um, you know, I've been working to pay down um, I just have a small amount of student loan left. Um, and I've been working to pay that down. We kind of went into storm mode. Um, so I've just been paying the minimum on that for the past couple months.

But >> so here's here's how I want you to look at this. Okay.

>> I want you to think of it as though he

had a romantic interest outside of your marriage. We call what he did around here financial infidelity. He cheated on you with money.

Y'all made a commitment.

Y'all etched it into stone and he went behind your back and did something else.

Okay? >> Right? >> And here's why that's important. When somebody calls and says, "Hey, my wife cheated on me and I think I want to try to make this work and I don't know what to do next." One of the first things I'll have them do is to create a 30 or 60 day path back to trust.

And you get to decide, the person who gets cheated on gets to decide what rebuilding trust will look like. And the person who did the cheating gets to decide, are they in or are they out on this path? And so if it was another woman, you might say, "I don't want you walking around. I want you to cancel all your social media accounts.

further. or it it's counterintuitive, but it further separates you guys. And the only way I'll survive this sort of betrayal is to decide we're both going

to take a step back in, but not blindly and not naively, but with a path. And you get to decide what that path is. So, question one is, do you want to stay married to this guy?

>> Yeah. >> Okay, >> I do. >> You have to deal with two things I heard. One is betrayal, financial betrayal. And the second one is just the

way you said he's been out of work for 5 months. you've lost respect for this as with him as a man.

>> Yeah. >> And so it's giving him a path back towards trust and giving him a path back towards earning respect.

And so my next question to you would be, okay, what does a path back to financial trust look like?

Well, that's kind of my question. Um because I've separated our accounts.

I've been trying to manage this kind of

on my own for, you know, the past little

bit. And he he stopped gambling, I would

say, like two months ago. >> How do you know? >> Um I mean, >> you Here's the deal. >> I haven't seen anything come out of our account. >> Okay. You don't you don't know. >> It wasn't working. >> Hold on. Hold on. You don't know, >> right? >> And so one thing you need is certainty.

I want you to go pull your credit reports. All six of them. Three for you and three for him. They're free. You can pull them. Okay. >> I want you to make sure.

And if he has gambling apps on his phone, I want you to a path back to trust might be saying, "Delete all those apps off the phone." >> Mhm. >> If he's got a group of guys that he went and hung out with and somewhere off, you know, 121st, I want you to say, I want you not spending time with those guys that are gambling every week. That's what I'm talking about. Um, I until his job starts, I want to see you getting up at 4:00 in the morning and Ubering until work day starts.

I want you to go throw boxes down the street with a moving company. And then when you get off, I want you to start to go work until 8:00 p.m. Drive an Uber to the airport and back. >> Mhm.

I'm just making some stuff up off the top of my head, but you want to see him

reinvest in you, reinvest in your marriage, and you want him to do things that are going to help him become more confident and more assure of himself. He's going to have to deal with the underlying challenge of why does he feel so dead in his skin that the only way he can feel alive in his life is to bet on

professional sports, right? He's got to go do that work. You get to decide what those things are. I can't give those to you. I can just give you some examples.

And so say he, you know, makes a turnaround and he, you know, decides

that he wants to stay in this marriage too and he is going to change his habits. At what point do I, you know,

kind of trust him and say that we can kind of

like join our finances again and kind of

>> I would put I would put I love calendar dates >> for and and to be clear, I want to try for 6 months. your check is going to deposit into this account that I have

>> and and and in six months if we're living through all these things and we are reestablishing trust together, you're continuing to follow the trust plan I put in front of you, in six months, we're going to sit down. I've already booked us a nice restaurant and we're going to go sit and talk about where is what's the state of our marriage now?

>> And if you feel still feel unsafe, then in six months you're going to say, I want three more months. or you're going to look at him and you're going to say, "I'm going to go all in again, but I have an extra $5,000 in this account that I'm going to hold for six months until I roll it into our joint emergency fund." Like, you get to decide those things. The thing I want you to be I want you to be specific and have some dates on the calendar.

You get what I'm saying? >> And I don't Yeah. I don't want that. And I don't want him to feel like I'm treating him like a child either.

>> Correct. But also, >> you're not you're earning back trust. >> Yeah. and you have to protect yourself.

You were very wise to separate your money >> and he made decisions that now there's consequences. There's real life consequences to a marriage that he has broken [music] in a sense. And so, um, so no, I don't think it's you being a parent. I think if there if he had never done this and this is what you're doing, I'd be like, "Woo, okay.

Something's going on, Nicole." But you're not crazy. Like, this isn't Yeah, this is not >> No, you did the right thing. >> Doesn't sound out of the box.

And then you're going to have to be uncomfortable. Well, there's going to be moments when he's following that path and you're not going to want to trust him and you're going to have to lean into that, too.

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And it costs nothing. It takes two seconds. Hit the subscribe button and we're super grateful. But more importantly, your neighbor who's never heard of us is going to be grateful when they start getting this stuff in their feed. All right, the question of the day. Our question of the day is sponsored by Y Rei. You did not take out

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>> Today's question comes from Mason in Wisconsin. He asks, "Is it better to teach kids about money using cash versus the popular debit cards like Greenlight?

Should they know how to handle tangible cash first before getting a debit card or does it matter?" Um, it's a good

question. I mean, I think obviously with little kids, it's going to be cash. You're not going to be handing them like a app, right? Because they they're not going to have a a phone or, you know, the app green lights to be able to, I guess, reconcile the debit card and to see the transactions come in.

Um, so if you're talking about little kids, yeah, I would say cash for sure. And I do think still as teenagers, I think, you know, having cash in the mix is big. But I also know in 2025 I'm like, you know, I mean, even like our high school babysitters, they use Vinmo, you know, that's how you pay them now. You don't pay them cash.

They because they have Apple Pay and they shop online and it is the world we live in.

way of money with teenagers faster than you probably would have 10 years ago. That's how my my answer probably would have been cash cash um for longer. But

now the world that they live in, yeah, I mean, it's just how they handle money. And so I almost want them to learn that responsibility of the method at which

they handle money and how they're going to handle money outside your home and understand how to use that really well too. So I would say both. I think having some cash is still great to let them experience, you know, a transaction when they're having to let go of some, you know, let go of money to get something else. I still think there's something wired in us that's really important. But I also know the reality of our world today and and it is it's it's online and it's apps and it's and it's cards. So

>> yeah, developmentally I want kids I want a tactile experience. I want them to hold money and be able to count it and see the one and the five and the coin. I think that I think holding it and seeing it spatially is important for a young kid. But >> we have a 15-year-old and we have we have a mix of both, right? And and again, like you say, it's I could give him a $20 bill on his cross country trip

or I can just >> ship it from his account. Right. And so,

um, yeah, it's just the world's changing. >> I know. It's crazy. Crazy. Crazy. I know. We were talking about digitals and phones and stuff during one of the breaks, but um, but we were even told like the high school football games, the tickets are on phones now. Like it's that kind of I'm like, it's just wild.

Yeah. I don't know. I feel like an old woman sometimes, but >> that's what we call you [laughter] behind your back. >> That That's >> Grandma Rachel. Let's go out to Seattle, Washington, home of [laughter] Alison James and talk to Star. What's up, Star?

>> Hello. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you guys. >> Thank you for calling, trusting us. What's up?

>> Um, yeah. So, to summarize everything, um, I'm a newly single mother of four since March of this year, >> man. uh for yeah um so I I do jointly own a

home with the father of my kids since 2021. Um we got it at a good, you know, 3% rate and the mortgage isn't too bad.

It's at um roughly 2,600 a month. And so

prior to the separation, I was a stay-at-home mom for 4 years. So um ever since the separation, he's no longer contributing with anything financially.

So, I've kind of been just like in this weird transition of trying to get back on my feet and >> and no child support. You guys weren't married, Star.

>> Not legally married, correct? >> Okay. Okay. >> I think he still has child support duties though, legally.

>> Correct. I just uh filed in August.

>> Okay. >> I know I took so long to do this, but I was just kind of >> No, there's a shell shop to it. Yeah.

>> And let me let me say this. the >> Yeah, >> you can have the greatest Let me take it away from the house cuz houses are so sensitive, especially with kids. If I

went outside and somebody was trying to

sell me a brand new jet that would cost

$15 million if I bought it new, they're trying to sell it to me for $500,000.

That would be an astounding deal.

The problem is I don't have $500,000.

So it might be a good deal in some marketplace. It wouldn't be a good deal for me because I don't have that money.

And so whenever somebody finds yourself in your situation, especially the way you frame that question, I want to ask you, I know you got a good rate. I know the house you live in is a good deal for that house. The real question here is, can you afford a $2,600 a month house

payment plus the electric and the water and the insurance?

>> Uh, yes. I believe so.

>> You believe so or you know so?

>> I know so. >> How much how much money do you bring in a month, Star?

>> Um, roughly 4,500.

>> Okay. now since I just started working.

>> That is really That's half of your in take take home income. >> That's a lot of house.

>> Probably too much. I think I think it's too much house star if I were to be honest with you.

>> Now, I don't know what you're going to do with four kids.

>> I don't know where you would go unless you had to go to a two-bedroom apartment, but in Seattle that might cost you 2,600 bucks, huh?

>> Yeah, exactly. Mortgage is pretty much the same as rent right now. >> Yeah. >> Oh, man. Um, but then I was thinking like the child support that I'm going to be receiving next month. I'm not sure exactly the amount, but I'm thinking roughly 15. Uh, yeah. 1,500 roughly.

>> Uh, that would also help. >> That would definitely offset. Yeah.

>> Part of it for sure. >> Um, >> all right. So, what's your question? I jumped right in on your house. I kind of ran over you a little bit and I apologize for that. How can I help?

>> Yeah, no worries. I was that was part of my question though is like if it's the best for my children and I to stay here.

Um we still owe 400,000 on the house and I was just thinking long term of like once I finish paying off the house, you know, reaching the goal of having no mortgage to pay and then saving up after that as much as possible. Um >> that's a the 400,000 bucks against what do you make? 60 grand. Is that your salary?

>> Yes. >> Okay. That's a really expensive house for 60 grand.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if you add the income of the child

support, right, I mean, it can go up to 72 or whatever. You know, you could count >> 80 even 400,000 on $80,000 salary is

still a lot. >> It's still Yeah, it's it is a um >> ton of house. >> It's a lot. Are both of your names on it, Star?

>> Yes, we own own it jointly. It's like a joint. And so is he just hoping that you

pay it and don't get behind and cuz I mean if something happens >> Sorry. Yeah. >> Well, I was going to say if something happens to the house, he's he's on the line for it, too. So, I would think in a little bit in his interest, he's going to want to make sure that either you sell it and you guys split the equity or

um or that you have enough of a means to keep it afloat because if for some reason if you went into a short sale or a foreclosure, whatever, right? like if you had if you fell on hard times, his name's attached to it. So, I would just think on on his end, he's going to be somewhat invested in it. >> Does he want to sell it and take the equity?

>> He does. He And but then I was just like, where are we going to live?

>> Yeah, >> he does. He wants to sell it. That's why he's kind of >> manipulating me like to not give me anything to sell the house.

>> Um, are are the four kids his?

Three of them. Yeah. >> Three of them are okay. >> Well, and since y'all, again, check with your attorney on this, but since y'all were not married, I think you're going to the only way to get him off of that is to refinance it,

>> which will lose that rate.

>> Yep. So,

>> um I do want to mention that uh I do we

did before the separation uh we verbally agreed to buy a family car. He said he was gonna pay it. Of course, that's my verbal doesn't matters. Yeah,

>> you need to get an attorney. I hate to tell you that. >> Stay on the line, though. Star Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with one of our financial coaches to walk with you.

>> We'll pay for it this uh this this first session here for you.

[music]

[music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing?

Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

>> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, let's roll out back to Kansas City and talk to Kelly. Where's she at?

All right. What's up, Kelly? >> Hi, my name is Kelly. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Of course. Thank you for calling.

>> Absolutely. So, I was calling because I'm trying. My husband and I are just starting out. Um, we're on step one.

>> Oh, you're new new to the gang. New to the cult. We're going to send you a ladle so you can drink the Kool-Aid. [laughter] Welcome. >> We're super excited though. >> We're glad you're here.

>> Thank you. Okay, so my my primary question is I have about $9,000 in my

403b from work. I have roughly just

under 16,000 in a traditional

um Forgive me, my husband's mowing outside the the window. Um >> yeah, as he should be, right, Kelly?

[laughter] >> Yeah. Um um we have just under 16,000 in

a traditional IRA

>> and then we have a just a little bit it's under $1,000 in a money market.

>> Perfect. Okay. >> But we're trying to figure out do we use

the money market for step one or do we

pull that out and put it into a savings account or do we start a completely different savings account for that? or I I I guess I just don't know what to what to do. >> Yes. Well, yeah, the thousand baby step one, that's perfect. You can do a money market account. Um, more recently, high

yield savings accounts are doing really well, too. Um, I mean, it's not it's your emergency fund is not a place to go and try to find like the best interest rate because this money's purpose is not to make money. It is to be just a safety net. But if you can get a better rate, but usually money market accounts, high yield savings accounts kind of are in the general same ballpark area. So I would leave that alone and then focus on

paying off the debt. And that money will come from cutting expenses and working

extra, selling stuff, any way you can get creative. But we don't want to cash out any of the retirements because you

will not only pay taxes but also penalties and fees and all of that because are you guys 59 and a half? I guess I should ask that but >> uh well my husband is 71 and I am 48.

>> Okay, perfect. Yeah, I still would just keep everything there because it's growing and even though you wouldn't get hit with penalties and stuff, I would just keep it as retirement and you guys pull it out as you need um when that time comes. Um, but then how much how

much debt is there?

>> We have 240,000 on our mortgage. Um, we

have Hold on, let me look. Um, sorry, I'm just looking at my um um Every Dollar

app here. Um, we have >> You went all in, Kelly.

>> You're swimming in the Kool-Aid [laughter] hard. And I I have an interview for a second job on Monday. So, dude, >> look at you guys. >> Taking Kool-Aid shots. You're in.

[laughter] Uh, we have $1,500 that we owe to the IRS. We have >> u about $2,000 on a personal loan for

heating and air conditioning.

>> And then we have a credit card that's

14,300. >> Okay. And that's it. >> And then 60 65,000 in student loans for

I'm a nurse. >> Okay. Okay. Perfect. Um, no car payments. >> Correct. >> Okay, great. >> We we own the two we have free and clear. >> Okay, awesome. Um, Yep. So, well, you listed them out smallest to largest. I'm assuming you know about the debt snowball as you're paying off the smallest. And the IRS, regardless of the amount, gets bumped up to the to the front. You pay that off first and foremost. Um, and then how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, it'sund

I think it was 110.

>> Okay. Is your husband retired or is he working? >> He is retired. He he just has his uh social security, but he's actually um been talking to one of our neighbors and plans to start working for the city over the winter to bring in that little extra income from him as well. >> Oh, amazing. Amazing. How much uh margin

are you guys finding in your budget just to throw at this debt per month?

>> Honestly, right now, very minimal. I'm we literally like today I paid for the

um the the the premium part of the every

dollar budget and I'm I'm just I'm really struggling because although it shows that we're that we should be good and that I've got a a you know it's an

every dollar budget um when I go in and

I put in the um paycheck planning >> aspect of it >> it seems like every every month we're we're um >> a lot of your bills probably hit a certain time of the month before the paycheck >> I I don't know what it is but it seems like we're overdrafted almost every month at least once when we pay the mortgage. >> Yes. Okay.

bills were owed before that hits right after and all of it. So you can actually see so you you guys may after seeing some of this contact whether it's utilities even your mortgage company um subscriptions any anything that you have that's going out to see if you guys can even spread out and change the date of when those are due >> so that it it actually is more fluid if you will because if they're if they're all frontloaded but you in your monthly budget but you're only getting one paycheck on the 15th that may not be enough to cover it all right uh or on the 30th.

So, so you may just need to kind of spread those bills out. Um, so that that that'll be helpful from a logistical side.

everything else, like if he even makes what 30 40,000, like if he can bring in something and not even just through the winter, I mean, I I really would, Kelly, I would I would both be working and I appreciate you even saying a second job.

Um, yeah. to get all this to get all this paid off. As >> I say, if I get the job that I'm looking at, it'll be I'm working full-time now and then I'm getting um I'm my interview

is for a weekend option. And so, basically, I'll work two 12-hour shifts.

Um but it's going to pay 36 hours.

>> Okay. >> And that'll be an additional about $6,000 a month that will excellent just

just from me. >> Amazing. That's so good. So, so good. Um

Yep. Because I I mean I think you guys could I mean if you're making if you're doing that kind of work I mean $83,000

you guys can pay that off. >> Yeah. We'll cook through this. >> Yeah. I think you'll do great. >> And Kelly, can I hopefully this gives you a little bit of peace. Do you know what the interest rate is on my

emergency fund?

>> On your emergency fund?

>> Yeah. >> I I don't have any idea.

>> I don't either.

>> Okay. >> I don't care what I'm what I I like that's not the point of it. And so like circling all the way back to your money market question, >> I like my emergency fund where I can get to it >> um if I need it. But I'm not looking for the best deal. I'm looking for something that's separate from my checking account. Right. So I don't quote unquote accidentally buy a boat. Right. Um

>> Right. >> And I want it but I want it where I can get it.

>> Yes. And I think that's why we like the money market ideas because although a savings account would be maybe easier um but it's also e more

easily accessible and right now I don't trust myself. >> Is your husband on on why don't you trust yourself? You sound like you're doing a great job. >> Well because we're both definitely spenders. Neither one of us are savers >> and we're so early into this and it's just like >> Yeah. Kelly, can I ask >> at least I feel like at least we know ourselves. >> Yeah. He's seven. He's 71. Did he bring Does he have any retirement?

>> No, ma'am. >> Okay. Cuz the numbers you gave me were really low. >> Social Security?

>> Uh, yeah. He's getting social security.

He gets a check for $296 a month.

>> Okay. But he didn't during his working lifetime, he didn't put money away.

>> He did not. He owned his own lawn service. >> Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Which is why he's mowing the lawn. But he's pretty good at it. >> No, he's mowing the lawn. He's mowing the [laughter] lawn cuz his wife said, "I'm calling Dave Ramsay." And he's like, "Well, got work to do." He did it outside. [laughter] >> I'm I'm leaving the house. The >> sun is shining and I'm going outside.

>> I bet he is. I bet he is.

>> Yeah. Well, Kelly, you guys are doing great and you're just at the beginning of this. I mean, I really give you props. A lot of people kind of just like dance around the edges and like I think I may do it, I may not.

We call it kind of Ramsayish and it just takes longer to get the momentum going for people. But people that really make a decision and you sound decisive, Kelly. You're like, "Nope, we did. We're starting it.

We got our thousand dollars. We got our every dollar out. Like, we are doing it." And you just signed up this morning, right? Right?

Like I mean like you're you're you're in the process. You got the job interview. I think you guys are going to feel traction like you've never felt before. I think you're going to feel control over your money like you've never felt before.

And my prayer is that your husband and you together are excited.

And I hope it adds and brings something to your marriage too that you've never had before. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're going to have to talk and go on walks together because you don't have any money for anything else, [laughter] >> right? You have to sit by a fire >> right now. for uh yeah, but I say right now we're um just trying to figure out,

you know, the budget and >> yeah, >> Christmas coming up and trying to get everything planned for that way.

>> Everybody's going to be fine. >> A little bit of a midlife crisis when I turn 48 and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I need to be tired." >> So this year, everybody's getting a love letter from their aunt Kelly. They're not getting anything special because you don't have any money. But next year, your gifts will be totally different because you all sacrificed this year.

It's amazing. Proud of you. Welcome to the cult.

>> [music]

>> Hey,

feel [music]

The allnew Every Dollar is here. [music]

And now it's way more than just our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Start every dollar for free today. Hey, get in the App Store or get it in the App Store or on Google Play.

It's the financial app that Rachel and I both use. George uses. Everybody uses it and it's pretty rad. Let's go out to St.

Louis, Missouri, and talk to the mighty Cam. What up, Cam?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Doing great. How are you?

>> Oh, just another day. Can't complain.

But >> you could, but you sound like George.

What's up? >> Yeah, something. So, I have a question.

So, I have some business debt that I

have strongly considered paying off

early or paying off even some of it like right now. But I'm kind of in the predicament where I have some very knowledgeable people in my life like my accountant and then some other family members and stuff that pretty nice net

worth. And I know with Dave's method of the whole buy a rental property, pay it off, use the profit, put it in an index fund, and then buy another one pretty well cash free, I guess, or uh debtree.

They've told me that it'd be better to leave that debt, I guess, and to keep it. You can leverage money differently and you could I don't know. They didn't they never really did give me like an exact straight answer, but I'm kind of just wondering what your all's thoughts are and like why it would be beneficial to keep the debt. I guess >> to keep the business debt because that feels different to me than the than the um buying a rental property with debt.

Those feel like two separate subjects.

>> Well, it's kind of like Yeah, like I have a rental LLC, I guess, but using that LLC to buy Well, it would be essentially debt in general, but it's all on business assets, I guess. Yeah, it's it's it's the it's what Dave went broke doing. It's the it is I am going

to take out a $100,000. Let's pretend we're in 1985.

I'm going to take out $100,000 loan on this house with no money down and I'm

going to put a renter in there and then I'm going to borrow against that house and then I'm going to >> or try to flip it for 150 and it doesn't set. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I'm going to Yeah. I'm going to take a 60-day note on it, try to flip it for 150, and then I'm going to take out another the when you say the word leverage, I want you to think of a teeter totter, right?

>> Yep. >> Guys love talking about leverage and leverage and leverage. Just remember the other side. There's always another side to that fulcrum. There's always something else on the other side of that. And so what Dave is saying is, I'm just not playing the leverage game. I'm out.

It's just a dumb game. So here's the deal. If you go in your rental property

portfolio in your LLC and you buy a house and you own it and then COVID hits

and the government says you your renters don't have to pay rent for 18 months, it's a really really annoying.

>> It's not catastrophic,

>> right? >> No. Absolutely. Yeah. And I I don't know like I think their thought process is like I make enough to where it doesn't I mean theoretically I could >> today you make enough today >> without that >> you make enough today.

>> Exactly. Yeah. And if something did happen obviously but that's a big deal 100%. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Or the market slows down. I mean who knows you know what I mean? Like there's just so many risk factors that people do not put into the equation and all they

do when they do their calculations is if everything works out perfectly upside it's all good. It's all good.

>> Your job's going to last forever. The market's going to appreciate at the same rate forever. The balloons you're going to sell it because the real estate market's always going to work like it has the last three years forever. Like everything's just assumed on best case scenario. And Cam, honestly too, when you run the numbers when you're trying to play the rental game because there's kind of the flip game, the rental game.

My husband does flips. We do it with cash, but like I know that game because we're in that. And so, um, I could speak to that. But even the rental side, because we did that for a little bit, and I'll be honest, if you had a mortgage on it, the amount you pay for rent plus all the maintenance, everything that you have to put into the house and having a mortgage, it ends up you end up not making a ton.

like you would be better off financially just putting money in an index fund and just letting it grow and that's hassle-free and stress free. You're not dealing with anything.

>> Yeah. And that's a long >> that's two presidential elections from now. >> Yeah. So it's just >> you tell me what's our world's going to look like. >> The rental game. It's just it's it's not as liquid and easy and passive as people

make it out to be. It's really not. And so, um, when you get into it, it's like it's just it's a lot of hassle. And again, I think if you if there's not a mortgage payment and you're that's why we always say, yes, to to move at the speed of cash and you can still do it.

It just is going to take longer, but once you get a renter in and you don't have a mortgage, then yeah, all that cash gets set aside, set aside, but it takes a little while to build that up, couple years to even go and cash flow cash flow something else too, you know.

So, it is a long game, but I would rather do that with no risk um than

golly have four or five rental houses where I have mortgages on everything and you're trying to keep renters. I mean, you are a property manager at that point and you're still have trying to have a life and a full-time job. So, >> Cam, here's the game I'm playing. Okay, you don't have to play this game. This is just the one I play in my house.

>> Some people like to play the leverage game.

I've got this side of the teeter totter stacked up and I'm constantly trying to shuffle and move things on the other side of the teeter totter to keep this thing from falling. Right.

>> Okay. >> The game I play in my house is my financial strategy is to solve for peace. That's it. And I will gladly play

pay 2%

on a 5 and a half% mortgage or a 6%

mortgage versus a 4% mortgage. I'll pay that 2% to have like I could be putting that money in the market and I would pay that 2% as a sleep tax because nobody

can take my house from my wife if I was to die. That's peace.

>> No. Absolutely. >> You know what I'm saying? So, I opt out of the game and I I'm just not going to play the leverage game. And you know what? I've got friends in my life. They love it. It lights them up. And also, they're aging way faster than me, right?

They drink way more than I do, right?

But if you don't play that game, just know you're playing that game and it has to all work out for it to be okay. I'm just choosing to solve for peace for me and my wife and my kids. If nobody can take my house away from me, I've got stable investments. Look at real estate.

Like, I'm just going to be smart and when I make a move on something, I want it to be mine. I don't want some bank to own it and me pretending I own it through them.

>> Okay. No, that totally makes sense, Jack. Cuz I mean, so I have like my house is paid off. My trucks I paid I wrote a check for. Amazing. Good for you, brother. >> I appreciate it. Essentially, I do have

I have like 200 and depending on the day, like 280K in a brokerage account that I manage, and it hasn't quite been in there for a year, so I'm still looking at short-term capital gains if I sold it >> and then I've got like another 210 on hand. I mean, theoretically, should I take that 210 on hand and just go ahead and wipe out my two rental properties or >> I would I would today. >> Yes. Like, >> if it was my house, I would do that today.

Then you'd have, bro, you'd have three houses free of >> paid for.

>> No. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought because in my eyes, like I know they say you can like write off interest, but I'm not getting anything out of the interest. That's what their thought process was. I can put in the market and make more, >> but Right. Right. >> with the interest, but that's still not my money. Like it's not going to my equity and it's not in my pocket.

>> So, it's like I don't see how that's really my money either from deducting it. And Yeah. >> Yeah. And and back to John's point too, Cam, like the math game. People say it a lot like that actually your exact scenario. They're like, I literally have cash and I have a mortgage that I could pay off with the cash, but for some people are like, well, it's in the market and I'm making 18% but my

mortgage, you know, is at 3%. Like, and I'm going to be making this amazing, you know, 15% spread and yada yada yada all the things. And again, at the end of the day, we have never met someone who has paid off their primary residence andor

rental properties and just own them and called us back and they were like, I hate being debtree.

>> I want a mortgage again. I want a mortgage again. Where can I go get a mortgage? >> That's the beauty of your situation. >> Nobody says that. They're all like, God, that felt so good. Oh my gosh, I didn't realize some level of stress that I carry that I don't even realize. Because you know when it proverbs says the borrower is slave to the lender and that is a powerful picture and we don't talk about that enough in our world today that emotionally spiritually financially

you know you you owe someone something and when you are free and clear of that Cam and you are a smart guy you work hard you do really well you're going to stack up so much cash [music] so fast and all that equity in those homes like your kid that is changing your family tree >> well and if you hate it pay them off today and give yourself 2 months of sleep if you hate Hate having three paid off houses? Go take a heliloc out on both of them. February 1st.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by the one and only Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on money and work and relationships and your mental, emotional health, everything.

Anything you got going on in your life, we will sit here with you and we'll help you figure out the next right move. Let's go out to Tampa, Florida, and talk to Ma T. What's up, Matt?

Uh doing well. Thank you guys for uh taking my call. >> You got it, man. What's up?

>> Well, I've got a question. I I recently did a a job change and uh changed companies. And before I did it and and kind of subsequently after I did it, I've I've crunched a bunch of numbers and I keep thinking to myself, this was a good financial move. However, there are just bouts of anxiety that kind of

>> I don't know, overcome just kind of come randomly that are like, hey, you made a mistake. And so I I feel like I just need somebody else with some with some financial wisdom just to talk through and make sure I'm looking at everything correctly as I as I start the new venture. >> Right. I'm smiling not at you but at at your math problem.

So are you doing a math problem and it's not working out like you thought and you're like, "No, no, this was good. This was good." Or >> Yeah. >> Are you looking at this and you actually have a bunch of margin and there's other things that your body's trying to get your attention about this job move?

Um, I I would say the math seems to be

working out. And I think that if you had said, let's look at Matt's financial position in August versus Matt's in October, you would be like, October is better. Like October Matt is better.

However, it's like I can't I can't beat the anxiety away. Okay. I can't beat like the fact that >> Let me get the numbers real quick because I think it's more I think I think John's hitting it right and I just want to clear the clear it. So, what were you making and what are you going to make in your new job?

>> So, I was m making about 520 at the old

job and I'm making about 400 at the new job. >> 500 520,000.

>> That's right. >> And then you took a pay cut of 120 to 400,000. >> That's right. Okay. Um, but I'm commission I'm commission only. So, I'm in sales and I got to bring my clients over. I probably brought >> So, will you >> I mean, >> make more than 400, you think, because it's a sales job?

>> No, I I think I uh No, I think I'll make 400 next year. >> That's what you're think.

>> Yeah. And I have the potential to make more >> um as time goes on. I'm Yeah, but >> Matt, do you have a lot of debt? Uh, so when I took the new job, they paid me a

they paid me a pretty hefty signing bonus and I >> a million.

>> Nice. Pretty hefty.

>> You undersold [laughter] that one a little bit.

>> So they got a million dollar signing bonus. >> So you paid off everything, right?

>> Well, okay. I paid off all consumer debt and a car loan. I have about 800 left. I putund I put 150 in a side account which

is basically college funding for us my kids just to have it kind of earmarked for that >> and then I just have I have 65 or 650 in

a non-qualified account um that I just

>> How much do you have a mortgage do you have a mortgage or paid off house?

>> Uh I got a mortgage uh the house value probably 1.4 4 million and I owe about 750.

>> 750 on that >> 5,000. Yeah. About a $5,200 payment.

>> Okay. >> You could pay it off today because you got 800k just sitting there, right?

>> Yeah. But I I mean I do have some of that year marked for college. My kids >> Oh, yeah. I'm not saying to do that. I'm just trying to get the numbers right. Okay. >> But to the point that like you guys are pl like if you had to in six months, you could have a paid off house.

>> Uh yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. So now So we're good. Matt is good. Well done, Matt.

>> Yeah, well done. >> Well, by the way, uh so now there's anxiety and >> I need a job where I get a million dollar [laughter] signing bonus.

>> I got a high five and a hug. Okay, so Matt, here is a rule of thumb that I um

subscribe to when it comes to anxiety.

What if my body's right?

Not the way most people are trained, which is if you're anxious about something, it means your body is somehow malfunctioning.

And so if we look at your life, your marriage, your kids, your job, the

potential impact of AI, the your your

parents' health, um all these different things, if we were to look at your personal health, your physical health, your spiritual health, if we were to look at these things and ask ourself, if

anxiety is simply just an alarm system, what is our body trying to get our attention about? Where is our body seeing? Hey, you're not safe right here.

Yeah, I think it's the

I I think it would be the uncertainty

of 5 years, 10 years or 15 years down the

road. Like I feel like at my previous job, I mean I not exactly, but I mean I

feel like I could have almost mailed it in. I mean I had the contacts, I had the relationships. I mean I could have just been like, you know, oh hey, you need this? Yep. and just and just continue.

And now that's changed and I've the

failure of it not growing to that point

in the future is like, hey, you you could have just stayed. You could have not been stressed. You could have not had any of this anxiety. You could have just stayed at the previous company and worked >> or you you could have been walking in a in a bridge collapse on your head, right? So playing the whatif game

is usually a symptom of something deeper.

It is it it's it's the nerd word is rumination. It's your body's way of trying to come up with creative ways to solve future and or past problems and

those strategies help you avoid dealing with what the real issue is today.

>> Yeah. Matt, what caused you to change jobs in the first place?

>> Um, yeah. I I I mean, I felt like I didn't I

I didn't like the fact that I could mail it in. I felt like I needed to be challenged. I felt like I wanted I wanted something new. >> So then you get it in a sense.

>> Yeah. You got it. Now I've got >> Here's the worst part. You got it. You got a million dollar signing bonus. You got a $400,000 year job >> and you went with you.

>> Yes. So I feel Yeah. Maybe there's a anxiety like I I bet on myself and I'm a little bit nervous that that's >> great. That means that anxiety is right.

It's good. And so, um, Dr. Wendy Suzuki at NYU, she she says anxiety is an annoying but a friend. It's just looking out and saying, "I feel something is unsafe in this environment."

And it's you saying, "Oh, yeah. I doubled down on myself." By the way, if you bet on yourself with a million dollars in the bank, that's a pretty safe bet. Well played, dude.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Let me ask you a deeper question.

>> Do you have any friends? any guys that you hang out with on a regular basis in your new community?

>> Yes, I actually do, but I'm a little nervous to tell them I'm I mean I think I'm a little bit nervous to tell them about the financial situation.

>> Okay, then they're they're not your gang then. >> Well, >> they're not. Here's why. Your friends are people you tell the the the the tough stuff to, the friends you tell the dark stuff to, but also friends are people you tell the good stuff to. And your wins, your celebrations don't come at their expense. They're happy for you, too.

>> Yeah, I think they would be. I think you're right about that. >> Then that to me is the That's your next chess move. >> And it's not a bragging thing. It's just a full picture of who you are, Matt.

Here's the situation I just got into and I can't believe I'm still spinning out, y'all. Like, what is >> Sit with me with like I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, it's it's just >> The first year I got number one book, I called one of my old friends. He's the executive of my will. And I said, "Hey, I need to tell somebody that I just had a crazy good year." and he was so happy

for me. And it didn't come at the expense of the year he had financially.

He's been my guy buddy for for 30 years now. But we got to celebrate together.

But it started with not me being like, "Dude, guess what I did." It was, "Hey, I just need to share this with somebody. I had a huge win and I can't tell anybody." And man, he was so happy.

That's your next move, brother.

[music]

Listen, [music] everybody needs insurance and it can be impossible to

find pros who are not just looking to make a buck off of your fear and [music] off your lack of understanding the complexities of the insurance market.

So listen, with Ramsy Trusted, with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro, you will never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because Ramsay trusted insurance pros are all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they are market experts who have your best interest at heart. Rachel, I've experienced this in my personal life. It's been amazing having insurance folks I can call and be like, "Hey, I'm thinking about doing this. What about this?" And they call me proactively.

It's been amazing. Mhm. >> Go to ramseysolutions.com/co

to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. These are the pros that I trust with my family's future if

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All right, let's go out to Raleigh, North Carolina, and talk to Caitlyn.

What's up, Caitlyn?

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Great. How are you?

>> I'm doing all right. Glad y'all are doing well as well. >> What's up?

>> Um, so my question is, should I pay a

stupid tax and move my family back into

our old home or should I put a renter in

our old home and sell it for a lesser amount to an investor? Uh, what happened?

>> So, we put our home on the market and we had a buyer and the buyer backed out an hour before we were supposed to go to the closing table for the sale of our old home and the purchase of our new home. >> Oh, man.

>> So, that stopped the sale of your new home or did you go ahead and buy it anyway? >> So, we did not buy it. It was contingent us being able to buy it on us selling our other home. So, the seller of the new home, we had already moved.

We have a small child and we had to be out of the house at closing. So, we had already moved everything into our new home. So, the seller was gracious enough to allow us to pay additional due diligence every month to go more towards the down payment of the home and allow us to stay there because, you know, >> close on it though, the new home.

>> We're basically renting it. >> But you've not signed anything.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Correct. So, we've invested a little over $10,000 of money in this house. And

you know, I we have small children. Our family is settled and our older house

has not sold like we thought it was going to. So my question, should we pay

the stupid tax and leave all that money in the dust and go back to our old home or should we put a renter in it to pay that mortgage and then save up enough money to purchase this home?

>> How how long ago was all this, Caitlyn?

So, we were supposed to close at the end of June.

>> Oh, so you guys have been in this other home renting from them, not even buying

>> for six months.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what's been going on for six months? What like what have you been waiting for your other house to sell?

>> We have. >> And it's just been sitting.

>> It's just been sitting. Yeah. It's kind of, you know, when a house comes back on the market, it has a black cloud over it. People think something's wrong with it and there's not. >> Yeah. they like flag it or something. Um did um how how far of a distance is is

it different cities or just different part of town?

>> A different part of town. The reason we were selling the home is the street we were living on was consistently getting busier and busier. My husband was actually hit pulling into our driveway.

Someone wrecked in our ditch. Okay.

>> Um that might be another reason that sitting and having small children. We just didn't feel safe on that road anymore. And we want to expand our family, grow our family. We're a young couple. So, that was the goal. >> Yeah. No, I hear you. I'm so sorry.

That's so frustrating. Um, but I Yeah. I

mean, Caitlin, I hate to say it. I would I'd pay the stupid tax and go back. I mean, I almost would just see it as a gift that you guys didn't actually go through with the contract of this new house because if you had two mortgages that you had to pay, like this would, you know what I mean? Like, that that would be golly. Unless you can take less

of a stupid tax and drop the sale of the I mean, if you're going to lose 10 grand or 15 grand or whatever it is going to be, could you drop the price of your other house that much?

>> That's that's what I'm thinking. If I were to sell it to an investor, obviously we would have to lower the price of the home because investors, they're there to make money, not spend money. >> Have you talked to an investor that's interested? >> I have talked to a few that are interested.

They want a renter in it first before they would purchase it because it doesn't have a history as a rental property. It only has a history as a home. So, should I give it some more time and see if I can find a renter? >> No, you don't need here's what you've done and and I say this often on the show and so I'm kind of beating a dead horse here.

an eitheror corner. Mhm.

>> And anytime I in my life when I back myself into I have to do this crazy thing or I have to do this extreme thing, that's when I get myself into trouble. And so an exercise I use in my own house when I feel like I have to do this or I have to do that is I force

four or five other variables on the table just as a what if. What if this happened? Mhm.

>> And so what if you went and interviewed

another you found who is the top real estate person in your area? After this, I want you to get on ramiesolutions.com/realestate.

Get a real estate pro. And you sat down that person and said, "This has happened. I've got $10,000 to drop this.

I would love you to sell it before it even comes to market. Can you help me?" And I've had that conversation. And the guy I did that with said, "Done." And he did it. It was amazing. Okay. After nine months of a house being on the market, it was wild. Okay. Okay.

>> But maybe that's one. Or maybe you get aggressive with we're going to drop it $20,000 and we're going to end up paying a stupid tax, but we're not going to have to move.

>> Or like and and again, I'm just making stuff up off the top of my head, but I want you and your husband to back out of we either have to stab this thing or we

have to burn this thing. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Before we do one of those, you don't have to sell it to an investor or pack up everything and move away. And on the other end of that formula, the other thing is too that this house that you're currently in is not the only great house either.

So maybe you do move back and you guys press pause for a year, find something else because again, I just don't want you stuck.

>> They never gave us a deadline of when they would want this. >> No, I know they didn't, but you guys.

Yeah, because you could be on this for 2 years and it just, you know what I mean?

Like you need some level of urgency, which I know you guys feel urgent. I know it's like a lot and very overwhelming, but um but to get to force yourself to get creative to what John's saying um versus just like, well, we'll just see how this all plays out. Have a deadline and say, okay, for sure by February, like something's got to, you know what I mean? Like I don't know, like >> Yeah.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> But yeah, but I would talk to a great real estate pro because in the perfect world, the house sells and it's been on the market for four months. Um, I'm seeing here on our board that the at median days on market is 62 days for houses. So, you're double that basically. Um, >> but not crazy, right?

I mean, it's 4 months. And so, yeah, maybe you get a realer and you say, "Hey, for the next 3 months, we're going to just do some things, creative things to figure out how to get this house sold." >> And this may show my ignorance here, Caitlyn.

>> If I see something that says house back on market, >> I instantly run to it. I think >> you can get a deal. >> I think either I can get a deal or somebody wanted this and they they got to where they couldn't afford it. I I've never saw it as a black cloud.

I always saw it as like a for sale, >> an opportunity. [clears throat] Yes. Yeah. And whoever's looking on the MLS or like if there is someone that's trying to buy in your area and they see that, all they have to do is call up and be like, "Hey, bad inspection." You know what I mean?

And from the integrity of the agent, they have to be honest. And if it was a bad inspection, they'd have to say that and then you guys would have to fix it, all the things.

You know what I mean? >> Um, >> and it is a weird house. It has a weird layout. It's one of those split level homes. >> Yes. It is on a busier road, so it does have its flaw. >> So, it value may be may have dropped since >> maybe less than a traditional comp would be. Yeah. >> Y >> Have y'all dropped the price a lot yet?

>> We have. So, it appraised for 310 in

June and we've since lowered the price to 289.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Would you rather it depreciate like that and get it sold and you guys stay in this new house? Would that be like your perfect plan and just write it all off but at least stay in your new one? In the perfect world, I would rather like lose [music] some money on the sales so I don't have to upload. >> That's great. So, that's a good decision. >> And you hate this house, too, by the way. You hate it now.

>> I I do. I genuinely hate this house at [laughter] this point. I'm ready for it to be gone off of my hand.

>> I've Oh, God. I've been there. Oh, I've been there. Yeah. Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri, and talk to Kim. What's up, Kim?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Doing remarkable. How about you?

>> Good. >> Good. What's up?

We are trying to figure out when we can retire. I'm 42, my husband's 45, and we

feel as though we have a decent number in the bank, but when we do the calculations, it just doesn't seem like enough. And so, how do you know when enough is enough?

>> It's a great dang >> great question. Great question. Um well the ideal would be to

be able to do the calculations and say okay ideally if we could retire around age I don't know you could pick your age 62 how much would be in the investments how much do we need to live off of at that point in life would we have paid off mortgage would we really essentially have no debt no bills would we still have a mortgage um what do we want to do in retirement how much we want to travel right and you kind of figure out your lifestyle and and would you be able to live off of um without touching the nest egg is the goal off of basically the interest that it's going to create.

So, um I mean there's yeah a lot of different ways. Yeah. A lot a lot of different ways you can slice it.

>> So we are trying to retire early. Yes.

My husband would like to retire yesterday. >> What what how old are you guys?

I'm 42 and he's 45.

>> Why do you all want to retire? What's the What's the rush? I'm just curious.

[laughter] >> Um I think we want to do things that we actually enjoy and love instead of just making money.

>> Okay. >> Why are those mutually exclusive in your mind?

>> Um because we are definitely the bootstrap type of people. And so we have he has worked his whole life at the same company in order to get this nest egg

where it is. Um and so in order to leave when you've worked for a company for 20 years that's very difficult. You don't just walk away. And when you're our age, it's a harder game than it used to be to find a job. Um and so I think he's ready

to just be done and do that thing like pick up golf balls on the golf course where maybe you don't have insurance or you don't have >> Here's the thing. You have y'all have created you've twisted the the the math, if you will, and not real math, but you've twisted the reality to make it to where it's okay for him to get a new job or to change his life.

That make sense? Here, here's what I know. Y'all are two hard charging people who have worked really hard your whole lives. You will go stark raving mad.

[laughter] >> You like it's not good. It's not. It's honestly >> the research says if you if you just retire to quote unquote do nothing or if

you retire away from a thing, not towards a thing >> um other than picking up golf balls on a golf course, your your body says, "Okay, cool. We're done." And it starts shutting off.

And so I'm interested in what what are the things you're trying to escape and what kind of life do you want to build together? And how would I think we're I think we are built to work and I think we are wired for purpose. And so you extract those two things out and you put all that on a number. Man, y'all I I

just worry about what happens at your 48th birthday. Maybe y'all are like, "Dude, this is the best life ever. This is awesome." Um but that doesn't sound like who y'all are.

>> Sure. I think that we are looking for more flexibility and so we're trying to figure out what that looks like in the next step. >> Sure. >> Yeah.

And I think what we're saying is you may h you may be in a place which we haven't got your numbers so we can dig into that in just a second but you know you can get to a place where you're like hey I don't have to do the nineto-5 but I have this talent over here this passion for this type of industry or this group of people and I'm going to put some hours of my week into this service and you know figure out a way to still yeah go travel when I want and do what I can and maybe you guys worked hard in order to earn that but when you just stop and do nothing at the age to 45 through the rest of your life for the next 40 years come.

It's not good. I mean genuinely all the and it sounds I know it probably sounds magical because you guys have been working your butts off but I am telling you people shut down. I mean we even I even see this with you know God bless them. They have passed away now.

But even different sets of grandparents and the ones that would just sit in the chair and watch cable news all day >> deteriorated faster than those that like was out, you know, they would come to school stuff. They would they were moving and doing things. You know what I mean? Like the purpose.

Um and again that can be not as many hours as you guys are working but I would still have something that you're looking at and even if it's volunteer maybe I don't even care about that but there's something bigger that you're living for and not just golfing.

>> All right. So how much money do you have?

Um quite a bit. So I'm a sole aerys of a

a real estate mongle. So quite a bit. Um

>> what's quite a bit >> 500 million, 5 million?

>> Two billion. >> Two bill. Two billion. Do what?

>> About 9 million. >> 9 million. Okay. >> Okay. And so is that is that all in still tied up in real estate assets?

>> So we own our own business. Um so part of it is yes, we still have real estate assets that we do still manage on the daily. Um, and then other of it in investments in the market, other of it's in cash. I mean, it's in it's in a lot of different veins.

>> So, your total net worth is 9 million.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what is what does that pay out to you every month?

>> That's a tough question because we have it all in different buckets. So, our business is in one bucket. Our my husband works full-time for a another company just to have a another source of income. Um, and so everything's bucketed out. So I can't really tell you how much it brings in monthly because we don't look at it at that aspect right now.

>> Okay. You've got to know what your expenses are and you've got to know how much you bring in every month >> as as just a >> So we do know those numbers. Yes. So those numbers are hard. We do know like what we bring in every month which is what >> um I uh about 9,000.

>> Okay. So that like the rental incomes

and the if you've got derivatives coming in and his paycheck, all that adds up to about nine grand a month is what y'all make. >> That is just what our business pays me and what his job pays him. We don't titch any of our investments outside of that. And we take nothing out of our business other than what it pays me.

>> Okay. So what do y'all owe? Are y'all good for the next 20 years on cars, house, everything?

>> Yeah, we owe nothing on anything. >> Okay. So, if you were to quote unquote retire next month, let's just play that game. Where are you going to be getting money from?

>> We would still have our investments. So, we would still have our real estate side of our business that brings in approximately $40,000 a year. Um, that's

what what pays us. It brings in more than that, but that's the portion that we use for salary. >> Okay. But what would you do? You can't Okay. Yeah. Keep going. [laughter] >> And then we have investments in the market that we'd have to start using. um we've had to pull off from those which you haven't done before. >> How much are in those?

>> Um about three million. >> Okay. And is the is the real estate are

do you own it now? Like did your parents like it's been passed to you. So you have full ownership. Your name's on it and everything. Okay. Good. Okay.

>> Yes. >> So you have 3 million in I don't have a calculator. >> It's in the market like So is it is it in >> Yes, just in the market. >> Okay. Okay. So, could you guys live off of 250 a year or is that feel like less

than what you guys live off of now?

>> Oh, we live off way less than that now.

We live off of probably about 120 on a good year.

>> Okay. So, what I would probably do, Kim, honestly, is I would sit down with a financial planner and map all this out because of your assets and what you guys have. Um, that doesn't always mean obviously it's it's all liquid. I mean, hopefully like there is money coming off of those assets that you guys can use and live off of, but I want you to get some more concrete numbers and figure out.

So, my the only like red flag I always have with like it's kind of that fire movement is what it's called, like they try to like, you know, retire early. Yep. >> Um, >> that's my husband's eyes. Okay.

So the so the two downsides to those is all what we talked about at the beginning of the call is that you basically you lose any level of motivation to do anything >> purpose motivation >> and it eats you from the inside out over time. It does.

And the other negative is how life changes and how your lifestyle might change. So you guys might be great living how you are right now, but 62-year-old Kim may be super bougie and it's like, "Well, I want to go on this type of Mediterranean cruise." And it's like, well, we can't do that this year.

We got, you know, you're like, man, I wish we could. I don't know why we, you know, your your preferences may change over time. And you're kind of locked in to one way of living, >> right, >> for the rest of your life, too. But the 9 million changes it.

So, I would sit down with I really would and look at all your assets [music] and and to be able to figure out, okay, what can this roll off of and how can we be smart about it so that this can take us long term?

camp. >> I want your husband to quit his job >> and then you all figure out him getting a new job for a year and try that.

[music]

[music] Today's scripture of the day is Proverbs 22:3. The prudent see danger and take

refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.

Graham Norton says, "A good rule to remember for life is that when it comes to plastic surgery and sushi, never be

attracted by a bargain." [laughter] Excellent. Excellent.

>> I think that is that's good. No. Yeah.

No group for uh for the old plastic surgery. And bro, I have a gas station

sushi story. >> I can't I can't even do I can't do sushi at an airport. >> You can't? >> No. That and gas stations and grocery stores. >> I'll tell you, James

sushi in Nashville over at Jasmine, which just love it. James showed me that place. >> Great spot in the strip mall off Mors Lane, >> right by Guitar Center. Clutch. >> 100% by Pets Smart, too. Yeah, that's why we're talking people. >> This is like [laughter] free advertising here. >> Was fantastic.

Yeah. Where else? We're going to go you we're going to put a pin down in the show notes here [laughter] so you know exactly. All right. Let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Michael. What's up, Michael?

>> Hey, how are you? I appreciate you taking my call. >> You got it, brother. What's up?

>> Um, my wife and I are expecting our second child in a few weeks.

>> Congratulations. >> We Thank you. I really appreciate that.

>> Get ready. >> Yeah, we are. We're excited, but we're we're a little nervous. It's going to be a lot. >> Manto man defense, but you got it.

Yes. Yeah. Not outnumbered quite yet.

>> Nope. It's good. >> Um we own both of our cars outright. Uh

but neither of them can accommodate a growing family. So we're planning on buying a minivan as soon as possible.

>> Yes. >> Um we have a nice start to our retirement nest egg for our age and we have the cash to buy the van with no debt, but we're both natural savers and we're already losing sleep over seeing the numbers in our bank account uh plummet. So, how do we get over that anxiety and how should we change our investment rates such that we rebuild that cash fund at a good pace?

>> Okay. Do you guys have you you debtree you said right? >> We just a mortgage. >> Yep. Okay. And how much do you guys have liquid cash >> that's not the emergency fund but just like sitting there that you're like oh yeah we have this. >> So our our liquid and emergency are

combined. Uh, I typically rotate them through tea bills, four-week tea bills, so that, you know, they're still growing and we have access to that money at a a reasonable pace. >> Okay. >> Um, we have about 70,000 in cash.

>> Okay. And that includes the emergency fund. What would you consider the How much of that is the emergency fund?

>> Half. >> Okay. So, you got 35. So, you got the emergency covered. You have 35 for a for a new car. Uh, or new to you, I guess.

Um, correct. How much do you make

>> combined? We make about 200k.

>> Okay. And um what could you sell the

current car for? What would you get for that? >> Um they're old. We are very much drive

our cars into the ground. Okay. So I think maybe two or three grand.

>> Okay. So not a ton. Yeah.

Um yeah. I mean from an income perspective, you're not completely you're not off at all. I mean, we always say don't not to have anything with motors and wheels. That's half of your annual income. So, that'd be a h 100,000. So, you guys are way below that. You have the money for it. The only thing that kind of um I kind of hate that you're wiping out all of your

savings, right? I mean, your your emergency fund will still be intact, so I would not touch that obviously. But the fact that everything else is going to be gone, I could see how that's a little bit like, oh man, I think I would love to have a little bit more cushion for in case something comes up, right? And again, you can use the emergency fund for that. Um, >> I always like to lean in, and this is an annoying question, and I know that lean in on this question when somebody says,

"The cars we have simply cannot accommodate a family of four." >> Yep. because I I we drove a Prius and a Corolla for a while with two little ones.

And so like what kind of cars are you talking about that can't accommodate two

uh two kids?

>> Um a sedan and a a small hatchback. So

kind of similar to yours.

>> So So it you could it's a pain in the butt to bend over every time to lean over to get the car seat out. It's it's the worst, but it's still possible. And here's why I'm asking. If y'all make 200 grand a year and you could pull aside four grand a month for six months,

you're you're you're good to go.

>> The issue is we also have two dogs um

and we do a decent amount of traveling in the cars. So right now with one car seat, you know, the back seat is car seat, dog, dog.

>> Once the second car seat is in there, >> it's going to be, you know, car seat, dog, car seat, and then dog. This is an awful, awful thing I'm about to say, but

>> that ends up meaning your dogs are worth tens of thousands of dollars in

>> Yeah. >> travel cost. >> Yeah. >> And that's a tough pill for me to swallow. [laughter] >> You guys, Michael, y'all have the So, listen, you have the money for it. You really, you know, you you're not it's not an astronomical amount. You guys make good money. You could rebuild this.

Um, and you and I considering you both are the fact that y'all both are anxious about it is a red flag to me. I just want this to be a purchase that y'all are excited about and you feel good about. So, if that means pausing and waiting another two or three months and piling up some more cash just to have as a buffer of the emergency fund, then maybe that makes you all feel better. You know what I mean?

Like, I want this to be um a purchase that again that you're like, "Oh, yeah." Cuz I don't know. I I'm kind of with John that like you guys would be okay in this car for another five, six months. I mean years if you had to, right? If you if you literally said, "We have no money." We'd be like, "Okay, you got to figure out." >> Easy peasy.

Yeah. Parents can come visit you. >> Yeah. Figure out what you got to do.

But you have the money. You guys have worked hard and you saved. And again, it's not an astronaut. It's not it's not over that half of your annual income.

And if the heat, you know, I don't know. Again, you can always tap into the emergency fund, but I me as a spender. I

h we have an emergency fund and then we kind of have another emergency fund that just kind of sits there too that we really don't touch. So, like I just like to have a buffer in my savings. And I don't know if y'all feel that way, but if you do, then just pause for three months, >> save up a couple grand, you know, each month and then be like, "Okay, good. We have an extra 10 over here. That feels

good. Let's let's let's buy the van." You know, >> let me ask recommend? >> Go ahead. >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> No, you go ahead, brother.

>> So, would you recommend then, you know, our our 401k and other investment contributions are high. Would you recommend dialing those back to like >> 15%?

>> 15%.

>> Okay. So, keep those at 15% and then everything left over you think just put into cash. >> I would. >> Yeah.

Just to give you guys >> bills either. Just put in cash >> because some people were in your situation and they're going to feel great about buying it because they have the money for it. Um, and you do and you got but you're like, golly, we're just stressed and like, oh, I don't know. So then give yourself some buffer >> and and what's y'all's Did y'all come from not a lot of money?

>> Um, both of us come from like middle

class families, so you know, nothing

extravagant, but there was always food on the table type thing. >> Sure. >> Um, >> to be honest, I I don't know where the stress comes from. It's just we know that it's totally unwarranted, but for some reason we have this conversation over and over and over again about, you know, are we really okay? >> I mean, could you get could you find a $20,000 van?

>> Make that part of the fun that you'll find a $30,000 van or >> instead of a 35 or whatever >> 50 or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that might be part of it. But I'll also tell you this, there comes a moment when you have

to do the next right thing for your family. Now, I wouldn't say spending $40,000 because your two dogs like to travel, but like there's the next right thing for your family and it might feel

uncomfortable. You get what I'm saying?

And so, like no matter how many number

one books I had, no matter how much success I've had the last few years, all that, I still got that little kid inside of me whose dad was a policeman and money was really tight. And so when I got a new car several months ago, it was

like I had cash for it, went and wrote a check for it. It was still hard for me to pull the trigger. And it was it was not none of it was rational. And so I I

knew I'm going to go write this check.

I'm going to buy this car. I'm going to drive it home. And I know I'm going to have a night of regret and guilt. I'm going to feel it. And then in a couple days when I'm taking a trip, I'm not worried about the front tires rolling off my car. I'm going to be happy that I have this. And that's how it ended up.

And so there is if you know your body is getting your attention on something and you know that it's not real or that it's not true, great. Um feelings are designed to keep you safe. They're not designed to tell you the truth all the time. And so y'all feel it and then go make the purchase.

But I like Rachel's idea of what if you just held off 3 months and y'all just proved to yourself we could put [music] 15 grand away over 3 months. You make 200K and then go buy the van that you'all want.

Thank you so much for being with us. And remember, there's only one way to peace, and that's through Christ Jesus, the Prince of Peace.

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## 100. Learn When To Move From Intensity To Intentionality | March 31, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the very popular Ramsey Network program called Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Rachel is in Nashville. Hi Rachel, how

are you?

I'm okay. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I was calling because I recently

found out that my husband has been hiding some credit card debt that I didn't know about. And How much?

>> he now Um 30,000 that I am aware of.

30,000 that you're aware of?

Yes. Okay, so you don't think he's told you everything.

No, I do not.

Um he recently like when I confronted him about it, uh he wouldn't answer me and he >> it? I um got into my my bank account

app to upload a check and saw a

notification that my credit score had dropped significantly and I looked at it and then saw that there was $30,000 of credit card debt attached to it. To your credit score?

Yes. How did you get a credit card that you didn't know about? Did you Did he sign your name to the card, you think?

>> No, I well, I'm an authorized user on it. Mhm.

Mhm. Authorized users don't have their credit damaged.

Well, Not supposed to, anyway.

Well, it's tied to my credit score currently.

>> Okay. Um All right. So, he he's run up So, you guys have got your money separate. And um why didn't he tell you

about it?

Uh I don't know if he was embarrassed or just hiding or just counting on the fact that I wouldn't find out about it. I'm not sure.

Well, I mean, why does he care if you found out about it? It's his business, right? You all have separate stuff.

Um I don't know. He told me that it shouldn't matter.

Or I shouldn't care if my credit score is okay or not.

Well, that's not the point. The point is why is he hiding debt?

I I don't know the answer. I mean, he's trying So, now he's trying to do uh cash-out mortgage refinance to roll the

credit card debt into our mortgage. Mhm.

Mhm.

Okay. Well, there So, I would There's a lot going on in this conversation, okay?

Yeah. We can separate it out into three or four pieces. Number one, we'll go with the last thing first.

You do not refinance credit card debt into your mortgage, ever, unless it's to avoid a bankruptcy, and you're not bankrupt. You're just out of control, have a horrible system, and a questionable marriage.

Mhm. >> But, a refinance does not help any of that. It treats the symptom. The debt is the symptom, not the problem.

And I'm asking questions that you don't know the answer to, that you need to be asking to try to find out what the actual problem is.

Why did he run up this debt? What's he buying with it? And you know, and the answer to the overall situation is the most concerning of all is your marriage.

Um he's lying to you and flippant about it and thinks it's a perfectly okay that he's actually done harm to your score.

And this does not sound weird. This whole thing sounds weird.

Yeah, it is.

Okay. >> And I don't know how to proceed. Yeah.

Because he's It's a marriage issue is how you proceed. >> Yeah. Okay. Your husband >> been we've been going through counseling and he doesn't want to do anything about it. Mhm. Okay.

Dr. John Delony says behavior is a language.

Yeah. And when someone says I don't want to work on our marriage, they're saying I don't want to be with you.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

So, I would I would get with the counselor this week and say,

"We need to be real clear with this guy.

We're not I'm not signing a mortgage and we're going to heal our marriage and

as we feel it starting to heal and trust starts to rebuild, we're going to combine our finances so that this never happens again. I have full access to everything. He has full access to everything. We both have a vote." But right now, he's acting like his 14-year-old girlfriend is inconveniencing him.

And you're not that. You're his wife.

Yeah. So, the parts of you that said this all sounds crazy are absolutely correct. This all sounds crazy.

See, I really want to know where the money went.

I want to know that too, but I can't find anything.

I I mean, from what I can look at, I can't see anything crazy and then he's like, "You didn't find anything, did you?"

Uh which makes me think that he is hiding things. Yeah. Yeah.

And >> And proud about it. Yeah, that's right.

>> Yes.

I'm I'm I'm worried there's other things even going on after having done what I do for so many years. I hope it's not.

But there's got a lot of symptoms here that um that this money's going to something that's really going to piss you off later. So I I really um I want you to get to the all the way to the bottom of this and start from ground zero and rebuild your marriage from the ground up. Uh, it's your only shot.

Existing in the current situation is not status quo is not going to work.

It's not going to work. I don't think this guy wants to be married. I'm I'm getting passive-aggressive vibes where he wants to have her call this off cuz he didn't have the guts to. Cuz he's a liar. This feels Dave. I don't know if you're get catching that vibe, but that's what I'm catching. That he wants her to be the one to say, "I'm done. I'm out." because he's a weakling. So he's manipulating her. Well, before it comes out that he has a girlfriend. That's it.

I think he's trying to push her. Yeah, there's something I don't I don't know. I do not know. We can't tell, but we've done a lot of this over the years, hon, and it doesn't turn out well with that type of an attitude you're describing.

>> Mhm. And so uh the biggest thing is is okay, I've got a problem. The situation's broken. We work on it together. We fix the problem. That's how good marriage works.

And this is not. So yeah, you you need

to talk to your counselor. And your counselor needs to grow a pair and um drag him in there and go, "Look, this isn't you guys you're screwing around with all of us and I'm not going to have it." Cuz a good counselor will hold a good therapist will hold him accountable for this misbehavior.

So um and for this lack of repentance and so on. Your credit score is is not on

the list of things I'm worried about here. Getting rid of the debt, not signing the mortgage, and healing the marriage, not in that order, are the three things I'm worried about.

All right, Nick is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Nick, what's up?

Uh, yes. Um, I'm um I'm just recently hearing about

um your baby steps program. I've only been listening for about a week. Um but

I have a couple of questions.

Um uh I I'm 52 years old and I'm

debt-free and my house is paid off. But I really don't have any money in savings. Well, I have about $500 in savings right now. >> What's your household income?

Uh, 4,000 a month. Great.

Uh, I work for myself. Mhm. Um so I have

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All right, we're talking with Nick in Portland, Oregon. $4,000 a month income, no debt including his house, new to the baby steps. I think that's about how far we got into it, Nick. And your question today, sir?

So, um I guess I'm on step three of saving up an emergency fund. Correct.

>> But currently, it's going to take about

two years before I can save up, say,

20,000.

And I'm wondering if I should start investing at some point before I have

that full emergency fund saved up.

Okay, you make $48,000 a year. Why do you need a $20,000 emergency fund?

I thought it was that was three to six months of my um Well, that would be more than six months. So, three months would be 12,000.

Of your income, not your expenses. And it sounds like your expenses are 3,000 cuz you it sounds like you're saving a $1,000.

And so, if that's the case, then 10,000 is plenty.

Okay, 10,000 is plenty. So, do you have

I'm I'm totally new to anything with

regard to investing. I don't know anything about it. Do you have any recommendations?

Sure. I would do investing after you get the 10,000 saved and you can go to RamseySolutions.com, click on our SmartVestor program and those are mutual fund brokers advisors that don't work for us but that have agreed to do stuff the way we teach. And I put mine and Ken puts his in four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international for a very stable, conservative portfolio. And then you fund that with your Roth IRA and if you've got 401k or Roth IRA I

think you should yourself employed you could do a simple IRA as well. There's a lot of different ways you can do it and keep the government's hands off of it.

But the other thing I'm going to do is look at maybe adding some income to the equation at least short-term to be able to get the um to be able to get the emergency fund funded as fast as possible.

Um because you you know you're struggling on how how quickly you can do that. $2,000 a month you'll be done in five months on 10,000 and that would be fine for right now cuz you're obviously a very conservative person. Your expenses should not be so high if you don't have a house payment and you don't have any debt at all. So, I'd also be looking at your budget.

Yeah, I agree with this Dave. I think people need to understand that the gazelle intensity that we preach in baby step two, when you're knocking all that debt out, that needs to continue into baby step three.

relief that kind of come together and it just puts you in a really really good place. So, I absolutely agree with extra jobs, sell stuff. Let's get that 10,000 accumulated really quickly.

>> you will jump on to maybe step seven as soon as you finish that because there's apparently no children involved and uh at least the way you presented this and no house payment. And so boom, you know, now now we just all we have left to do is to invest.

And um you know, and so I really want to do what I can do with my career overall to get my income up overall in these premium earning years to be able to do that. So Ken, it's also interesting to mention we've seen several pieces of data and I've I've observed this too just um

taking the calls over the years.

The highest income earning decade for a male is in their 50s. 50 to

60 years old.

>> And so that that's when it all comes together and there's an arc, boom, you go and you know, then the 60s you kind of plateau out, kind of ride it ride the horse out into retirement. But um you know, until then that that's when everything comes together. Your experience, your education, your history, your failures, everything starts to pull in together and you you mix up this really neat gumbo that's got a great taste to it in your 50s and 60s.

That's right, in 19 in your 50 to 60-year-old decade. That's presuming that there has been some intentionality prior to that and I really recommend you get it in your 30s. If you do that, then you can build on it in your 50s.

Absolutely. Daniel's in Columbus, Ohio.

Hi Daniel.

Hi Dave, thank you for taking my call. It's an honor to talk to you. You too.

How can we help?

Um yesterday at 12:50 a.m. we suffered a

house fire and it looks like it's going to be a total loss and >> god, what is everybody okay?

Yeah, everyone's okay. We have two cats that are still missing. Um we're hoping they got out and we have we live right by the woods so we're hoping they're just hanging out around the house right now.

Um we had a uh good Christian public

adjuster reach out to us and uh we

wanted to know what your thoughts were on that and what the correct next steps would be to take from here.

Well, a public adjuster's job is to make sure that the um insurance company pays every stinking dime they're supposed to pay.

And you've got to cross every T and dot every I to cause that to happen and sometimes you got to lean on them.

Uh is he willing to lean on them?

Yeah. Yeah, they they seem like they're uh I've done my due diligence on them and I already looked into the company and they seem like they're a a pretty awesome company. Yeah. Um I'm a fan of the concept. I've seen good ones and bad ones.

Okay. Okay. And so I've seen them that embarrass you by the way they behave.

Um and I've seen other ones that are too wussified to to punch State Farm in the mouth. Which is about the only thing State Farm freak can understand. Who's your Who's your insurance with?

Uh the home insurance is with AAA.

Is with who?

AAA. AAA. Okay.

All right. I've not any experience with their claims except on an auto claim once and it was a good experience. A guy with AAA hit me and I got paid pretty quick. That was good. So um Hmm.

Yeah, I I the the the inventorying of your stuff, the detail that when you

don't do the detail you get underpaid by 20 or 25% type of stuff is where the public adjuster service is really valuable.

Uh are they taking a percentage?

Yes, sir. They're taking 10%. Okay. All right. And what's the What What's the house worth do you think?

Uh I bought the house in 2024.

Um, the property has a big detached garage on it. It was a tiny house.

Um, I bought it for 150. The actual house part itself was probably worth about 150-ish still. Not counting the lot or counting the lot cuz the lot didn't burn.

Um, I'm not sure. Yeah.

Cuz all you've got is the improvements and your contents.

So, you take lot value off of your appraised value and now we've got a total loss and that's what it is and it's a rebuild.

They're going to push it down, rebuild it. Um, or give you the money to rebuild it. Was it Do you have a mortgage?

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Yeah, and so the mortgage company's involved in this as well.

Cuz they're one of the stated beneficiaries on the policy. Um, all right. Yeah, yeah, I I I think if you've got due diligence, I mean, you're only 24 hours in and and be forewarned. Okay,

number one, you're only 24 hours in. Number two, um, yeah, the uh,

public adjusters that do a great job are the best. There's some of them that don't. Be careful with that. Then then the third thing is, um, this is one of the most emotional things that can happen to someone.

Have you ever seen the list of like 10 things that if three of them happen in a year, you got you're in the hospital?

It's like divorce, death of a parent, death of a child, uh, major car accident, house burning. High

stress, high trauma things. This is on the list of the top 10, okay? So, you're

24 hours after a top 10 event and you're making a major decision. So, um,

you know, you do not have to retain them immediately. Um, you could wait 24 more hours and just kind of let some of the uh, adrenaline go down cuz you're just you're burning the candle right now at both ends. I mean, you got to be emotionally fried, right?

Um, yeah, it's pretty rough. I would be.

>> It was obviously a lot. Um my girlfriend lived there with me and we had a 4-month-old and everyone got out quick, but she was pretty hysterical and that's pretty heartbreaking to see the person you love like that. Hey Daniel, I would be using good questions.

I would interview this guy like he was going to be taking care of your baby. Uh what are what are your goals? I'd ask him that. What is your goal with our case? And have him state it. Push him

and then say, "How do you think you're going to accomplish that?" Put him on the spot and trust your gut on this stuff. If he does a great job, he's going to get you more than 10% extra above what you would get if you handle the case by yourself.

So he's worth his money if he does a good job.

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Sandra's in Chicago. Hi Sandra, how are you?

Oh, I need some advice. Okay.

So, I've been with my partner for 8 years. Um we have two children ages 3 and 6. And he's expressed that um he

doesn't want to get married. It's just a piece of paper to him and so it's been

hard for me because I I I do want to get married. Now, financially he takes care of me and the children. I have $25,000 in savings.

Um but he has a lot more. He he's going to inherit assets, two buildings I believe, and he has money from before.

Um, now we currently live in um, his his

home, his parents' home, which he owns with his brother cuz his parents are deceased. Um, so we don't pay mortgage.

Uh, he covers all the household expenses cuz I'm a stay-at-home mom, and that's to about $4,000 a month.

Um, and we I I do hustles here and there, so I maybe bring $500 monthly.

Um, so we we don't have monthly counseling. >> So, the my I have two questions. Should I disregard this and not care about

marriage, um, and should I invest those

$25,000?

Um, I'm just afraid of the if something were to happen, um, how do I care for my children since we're not married and I'm not entitled to anything, that's my fear.

Yeah, if he up and dies or up and leaves, you're screwed.

And so, I that's why I'm afraid to invest >> a homeless single mom.

No, that's not funny at all. That's terrifying.

Yeah. He doesn't understand this. He thinks it's funny. >> care if he understands it. That's the reality.

I'm scared to death for you.

Yeah.

You're vulner- you're very vulnerable.

I definitely am. I I I feel it. Yeah. Stressed out all the time. >> Yeah. It's on the it's an undercurrent in your house.

That you're not valuable enough to marry, but you're valuable enough to have kids with.

Correct.

I'm sorry.

Thank you. So.

I don't I don't think you're going to do anything about it though, are you?

I I mean you're you're you're 8 years into this system.

Yeah.

Um I just I don't I can't afford to move out and be a single mom. Um I'm

hopefully starting a new job soon, but >> How much is that going to pay?

Next to nothing because I I can't Okay, so let's I'm probably going to have to be part-time. So let's address your fear, okay? The fear is legit in the sense that you have no plan right now, but the fear goes away when you have a plan. So you you have got to start digging into what would have to be true for me to work a full-time job that would take care of me and the babies.

Right? Well, what have to be true? I'd have to have affordable child care, and we got to dig into that. If I can't afford day care, what does that look like? I will tell you that there are solutions to this, but until you begin

to dig and go get answers to the fear question, can I survive without him? Right now you're telling us no. That's not true, but you're going to have to go dig and figure this out, and you can do it. And I got to tell you if if if it were me, that answer that he gave, that it's only a piece of paper, would be everything I need to know about being committed to this guy long-term.

And I think you're going to regret this, and this is going to eat away at you when you're an old lady. I think you're going to regret if you don't make a change at this very pivotal moment.

Cuz if you do, it's marriage. And if it's not marriage, now we need to begin to decouple.

And this is what it's going to mean. But I think you've got to before you get to that point, you got to go, what does it look like for me to be able to take care of myself and those kids? And that $25,000 cash becomes

an emergency fund if you have no debt.

Do you have any debt?

I don't. Yeah. How old are your kids?

Three and six. Little boy, little girl?

Yes. Okay. Both. Would you want this for her your daughter?

I I don't. No. Then fix it. Mhm.

Easier said than done.

Then fix it cuz you're modeling for her that this is the way life is supposed to be and it's not.

Yeah. It's not.

You're being held hostage.

And financially.

And you feel it. You feel vulnerable.

You feel disrespected and that's in the air of your house and it's translating into your daughter's body.

And she thinks this is how men are supposed to treat women and it's not.

Fix it.

You've got to stand up and fix it.

And amazingly, Junior may decide he wants to paint or get off the ladder. I don't know. But um not sure he's worth it. But uh

Mr. I've got I inherited my mommy's house with my brother. Oh, woo, aren't you a dadgum producer?

You're killing me here. And so um

yeah, I'm I'm not impressed.

Uh so That's right.

This is two in a row. The guy last guy with the house fire, same thing. He's four year old kid and his girlfriend who's hysterical. Uh living together. So here's the here's the data, folks.

If you are 35 to 54 years old, this is actual data we just got a hold of the other day. The average married couple

has a net worth of 329,000.

50% over 50% of the couples in America

living together are not married

in America right now. We have more people shacking up than married people shacking up.

Right now. But the data says it's not working financially.

And the data says it's not working relationally.

So, here's the thing. Married couples, on average, 329,000 between 35 and 54 years old. Unmarried male, not 300,000,

84 87,000.

So, 1/4 of the net worth

if you're an unmarried male. So, if he wants to know why he should get married, that's the reason.

Unmarried female, 1/10, 35,000. 1/10, 10% of the net worth. And

that's where she's sitting right now.

She's sitting with 10% of his net worth or 10% of a an unmarried guy's net worth, but 10% of what she would have had had she been married for these eight years on average.

That's the averages.

Okay? The average married couple, 65 and above, 608,000. Unmarried male, 218. 1/3.

Unmarried female, 174.

25%.

Net worth.

Mar- 40% of all the public are married,

75% of millionaires are.

You getting it yet? Married males outlive unmarried males an

average of eight years.

Married females outlive unmarried

females by four years.

Cancer survival rate among married people, 20% higher than unmarried people.

Hello?

Is this microphone on?

This used to be a show where people would call up and I'd say, "Your car is stupid. Sell the car." It's gotten to where the answer to every question is get married.

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Lori is in Canada. Hi Lori, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hello Dave, thank you so much for taking my call. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Wonderful, same here.

Um, I'm looking for some, I guess tough love if it's at all needed. Um, but just kind of my backstory here, I'm going to be reaching the end of baby step two at the end of April, which is so excited.

I'm so I'm so happy. I've been working myself to the bone. >> Congratulations. >> Yes. Thank you. Um, and then for baby step three, it won't take me long. I have very low expenses. I'm planning to save about $6,000 for a three-month emergency fund.

And so by early June, early mid-June, I should be about done um, doing those two steps.

Now, I'm trying to plan for after baby

step three and um, maybe scaling back on

my part-time job because I'm working two jobs right now, 70 hours a week. Um, and

I'm feeling a bit nervous to lose that

extra 2,000 a month in income.

Um, and so I'm looking for some advice on how to scale back from a gazelle intensity mindset and nurture a prosperity mindset after I'm done baby step three.

Very wise. Good for you.

Yeah, when you're running wide open and you cross the finish line, you don't suddenly stop.

It takes a few steps to slow down.

You don't you don't stop like I think think of a sprinting a foot race, right?

Like a 40-yard dash, okay? Yeah, you're not you're not going to slow down. It's going to be a few yards after that before you slow down. But by the time you get out there 100 yards after the finish line, you'll be back to a normal pace again. So, it takes a minute to slow down. That's thing one. Thing two is um anytime you're looking at something and I have anxiety about it or worry about it, you said. Um facts are

your friends.

So, look at your budget. I think you're doing a detailed monthly budget, aren't you?

I sure am. Yeah, and >> Okay. Um the part that I'm nervous >> of instead of white knuckling instead of white knuckling the budget look at the budget and go, "Now that I have no payments how much room there is. Oh my goodness."

Mhm. And so, that gives you mathematical tells your brain mathema- the math tells your brain it's okay to slow down.

It may take your heart a minute to catch up but your brain will go, "Oh, we're okay." Yeah. Because you are okay.

Cuz you're putting you know, you're putting more than the part-time job towards the debt and then towards the emergency fund, right?

Correct. So, that means when you do away with the part-time job mathematically, there's still the more than part.

The margin. Yes.

So, you're okay. Math says that.

Um but you're what you're trying to adjust for is the emotions, but I'm telling you emotions are something you tell what to do. They don't tell you what to do. Yeah, you know, I'm listening to you and I think you a little exercise would be what is my focus now. You know, we hear a lot about what's my why and and you're you're you're getting through this because you want to be free.

But it's really what am I doing in order to get the why? And and so, now as you move out of baby step three, ask yourself, "What am I intentional about now?" Because you've been intense, super intense.

let's move from intensity to intentionality.

And so now ask yourself, what is my financial focus now? Right? In baby step four, super clear, we're trying to build wealth now.

And so I think if you can reframe into the next what, I think it will naturally

help you slow down as Dave gave it the beautiful metaphor there, kind of out of a sprint.

>> have you been fighting this?

Uh I've been at this baby step two since

February of last year. So about So 70-hour weeks for a a year plus?

No, no. The 70 hours a week was a very recent addition. Before I was working about 50 to 60 hours a week. So I've been at it for for a couple >> You've been at it. You've been hard at it. So my point is this, when you stretch something to this degree that's never been stretched before, it's impossible for it to return to the same shape.

So you you can we have the number of people that the number of people that we coach that do what you have done, that go back to being irresponsible doofuses with credit cards is almost zero.

I I don't want to go back.

>> think I don't think there's any chance you will. That's my point. If you'd only doing this for two months, you might you might go back. But when you've been fighting it like this by yourself for a year, scratching and clawing, and we can hear the visceral intensity in your voice, kiddo. I love talking to you. Cuz you're like passionate. You're getting it. You are getting it.

>> Thank you. And and so that tells me that you're you have stretched to a place you've never stretched before, and you will not return to the same shape.

And so you're you're you're great.

You're going to be fine. You're going to be great. And just be intentional, not intense. If you just tell your money what to do, you're going to have money the rest of your life.

That's all you got to do. Just tell it what to do. You don't have to freak out. You don't have to work like a crazy person.

you don't have to do beans and rice, you don't have to do gazelle intensity. You just got to tell it what to do. That's intentional versus intensity. Stay on the EveryDollar budget the rest of your life and watch your net worth climb.

As Ken said, have a new target that you're aiming at and it's one that is a little bit more joyful and comfortable than running from the wolf of debt Yeah. that's chasing you through the forest, you know, it's like >> true.

nervous system, all of that has been reshaped. And it will yeah, and it will adjust, by the way, when you adjust your new focus. That's it's a miracle of the way our brains work. There's all this research on focus.

Avery's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Avery, what's up?

Hi Dave, it's a pleasure talking to you.

Very excited. Honored to have you. How can we help?

So, my fiance and I are getting married in October and I'm trying to stress the importance of budgeting. Um but my question is, do we

budget together when we don't have visibility into each other's finances?

And should we budget budget together or separately? You should budget separately, but you can do some practice budgets together as part of your pre-marriage counseling.

In other words, you actually run your money separate until you're married. Do not combine finances with someone you're not married to. Then after you get home from the honeymoon, you can do what you've been practicing.

Yes, it will reveal expectations.

And and it'll be great it'll be great for your pre-marriage counseling, it really will. Because where are you spend your money reveals your dreams, your fears, your values.

Jesus said your treasure's where your heart is. And so, you're a spender, he's a saver, or the other way around.

Um you know, one of you grew up in a household where people didn't care about money, and the other one they were screaming about it all the time. And so, all these things are going to start coming out when you start looking at this together, but the money is not actually the thing. It It's revealing who the two of you are and what your differences are that will work for you if you learn to use your strengths for each other and guard each other's weaknesses. So, I'm not the natural saver in my house.

So, that's our natural safeguard. She's a straight-up tightwad.

She saves everything. There's way too many leftovers in my refrigerator, and I have a net worth of hundreds of millions of dollars, and there's freaking leftovers in my refrigerator. It's awful, y'all. I'm complaining right now.

I like Dale's spaghetti. I'm just going to put that out there. >> come to my house anytime.

And so, um we we get it a lot, but so,

it's her nature though, and I love that, and I'll know I I you know, you know, I'll have a lot of problems in my life, but my wife being, you know, spending money like a crazy person is not going to be one of them. Her husband, on the other hand, me, I have I'm the spender by nature.

And thank God I like making money. Yeah.

Because I've been good at spending it. So, uh you know, you you learn about these things when you start working this together, Avery. So, make sure you're doing it. Get Get the EveryDollar budget out and run an app run run Get the app out and run a budget as if you were married, but don't combine your finances until you are married. And do get some good in-depth pre-marriage counseling. It's one of the indicators of a marriage that lasts, by the way.

Because you get to talk about what's wrong with her mother. I mean, his mother. I mean, your dad. I mean, can you imagine the the pre-marriage counseling my kids went through? Mhm.

You're marrying into the Ramseys.

Talk about fraught with danger. No comment. Next question, please.

>> There's no air at the table. No. I mean, you got Rachel Cruze, me. There's no no there's no room for another word in. I'm just saying. >> And you still get two of the finest dudes on the planet. You got two good sons-in-law. So, I'm telling you that and your daughter-in-law. Yeah, we did great. >> did. >> great. They did great. >> They did. We taught them how to pick.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author, host of Front Row Seat, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Megan's in Phoenix. Hey Megan, what's up?

Hi Dave. First of all, pleasure talking to you. I love your faith in God and it's just it's great to be on here. But, um I was

a kindergarten teacher who left teaching to be home with my kids and I found myself doing um contract work and just private tutoring to make money, um but then I did not pay my quarterly

taxes and now I found myself in a pickle, um where now I can't afford to pay my taxes. So, um I didn't pay the quarterly taxes the past 2 years and now I'm thinking, um am I just working to pay that unpaid tax?

Like, did I screw my family over in this sense?

Okay, so a portion of the money that you made should have come out to pay quarterly taxes, correct?

Yes, it definitely should have. >> Okay. And now you're having to pay it,

but you already used the money before.

So, I don't know how your family got screwed over. Your family got the benefit of money that really wasn't theirs.

Yes, really. >> in the earlier years and so you didn't screw anybody over. You just But, you created a mess, obviously, by not taking care of by not taking care of business. So, what's the tax bill?

Um for 2024 it's 13,000. Mhm. And um

this past year it's going to be 11,000.

Okay. So, you need So, 13 and 11, so we

need $24,000 and you're married, I guess. Yes. Yep. Okay. And what's what does he make?

He makes 85. Okay. And how much money do you all have in savings?

Mhm. We have about 1,500. Okay.

All right. And how much debt do you guys have other than the IRS?

Um we have about 70,000 in debt between

cars and student loans.

Okay. All right. And what do you owe on the cars? How much of that's cars?

Um 26. Okay. Thank you.

All right. And so you've got about 44 in student loans.

Yeah. Yes. Okay.

All right. Um and 24 to the IRS, I mean

the KGB. Um >> Yeah. Okay. So if you owe 13,

that means you probably made close to 50.

Yes.

Okay. And so are you planning to make 50 this year?

Um I'll make a little less than that.

And I will say for this year, I do have money set aside to pay quarterly taxes for this year. Yeah, but I mean if you

um

Okay. Well, why would you make a little less when you have a problem? You would make more. You work more.

Right. Um I One of the things that I did

for contract work isn't isn't a thing anymore. Um it was working with migrant students and and that program got it's done. Okay. All right. I can imagine.

All right. Um

But you're going to have to take on a bunch more of the other kinds of students.

Yeah. >> to offset that, but to um you know, you've got to grow this business in order to pay this. Okay. So basically we're going to work a debt snowball, which means you have $94,000 in debt, but anytime you're working a debt snowball, the IRS is first.

And you and your husband have a household income of about 135.

And every dime of that we can squeeze out of our monthly budget, we're going to throw at the IRS until it's gone and

they're going to be cleaned up in about a year. Or or sooner. Well, they need to be cleaned up a lot sooner, really.

And then you're also going to have to think about um is the $26,000 one car?

Yes, it is. Okay, that may be something that has to go away, too.

In order to make this work.

>> The car payment on that's substantial and getting rid of that and anything he can do to pick up extra work. Is there anything you could do in addition to tutoring to create income for a short period of time to clean up the mess?

Um I mean, I can pick up more more clients and I know that's a it's it's the trade-off with that is um being at at home and taking care of my kids. Yeah. >> Is the problem is we don't have any family around um to kind of help with that. Yeah. Yeah. I I you need to solve for that on the short term.

Yeah. >> It's not a long-term prison sentence, but you need to create income because of this faux pas, because of this mess.

Yeah. >> you create the income, it's going to make the mess go away and your life you're going to get your life back.

Because if you didn't have a car payment and you didn't have the IRS and you were making, you know, 40 or 50,000 without having strain on the kids and um he's making 85, you guys could work through the rest of that debt snowball fairly easy. But these two things are the glaring problems in my face and I'm like, it's 50,000 of your 94 is those two things.

Right, yeah, half of it. Megan, let me ask you a fun question, okay?

If I if I told you that you could have $100,000 cash in 3 days, but for 3 days you had to work a 10-hour shift and you had to in

order to do that, you had to have somebody to watch your kids for 3 days.

And I gave you a week to come up with child care for 3 straight days, could you do it? Yes, 100%.

>> So, I'm not I'm trying to be nice about this, but when I hear this defeatist

attitude towards childcare, and I hear it a lot, I think you got to get more innovative. And that's why I created a fantastical scenario for you to get your mind to say you would pull it off.

>> Yeah, the good news is it only takes a year of being of being completely out of control crazy, some kind of very discom- uncomfortable thing that we do for a year. Uh this is not saying I'm going to raise my children this way. It's not saying for the next decade the kids are going to be in this situation.

And when you do that, I think you can move the needle. So, I'm going to go completely crazy with your income.

I'm going to look at selling that car.

I'm going to look at him picking up an extra job. I'm going to get on every dollar budget. We're not going out to eat. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. And you're not going on vacation. You're broke, and you owe the IRS.

Because you screwed up and didn't pay your quarterlies. And you have got to clean this up, cuz the penalties are unbelievable. The interest is unbelievable. Every day that sits out there just killing you.

Matter of fact, if you can go borrow on a credit card and pay them off, I would.

Because you're just moving one debt to another debt. And in this case, because they have unlimited power to come screw with your life. Uh they're unbelievable to work with, in not a good way. So, yeah, put them on a payment plan so that you don't have them coming after you, garnishing your wages, or hitting your checking accounts, or anything else. And then get on get rid of that debt as soon as you can. It's the first thing to go.

And um and of course meanwhile, you're paying the quarterlies on your current situation.

Ouch. That'll bite you.

Dave, real quick, I I I'd love for you to give us any answers to what is the psychology that is necessary when you get yourself in a big financial hole and it feels impossible to get out of.

You've done it. She feels it and I sympathize with that, but what is that what's going on psychologically that has to be defeated? You can do anything

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You can do anything for 90 days.

As a matter of fact, you can do anything for 180 days if it changes the whole rest of your life. It's not a death sentence for 10 years, but the next 10 weeks are going to really suck.

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Maria is in Orlando. Hi Maria, how are you?

I'm doing great. Um thank you for taking my call. I um

I don't even know where to begin. I'm so embarrassed. I have some credit card debt that long story short, I basically ignored for the last several months, you know, a couple of them have gone into collection and I'm just hoping you can help me figure out how to speak with these collectors so that I can um pay what I'm

able to pay and get out of this hole

I've put myself into.

How much credit card debt, hon?

Um about 18,000.

Okay.

All right. What do you make a year?

Um it varies, but roughly 55. Mhm.

And why have you been ignoring them?

Um I was actually paying them off and then last summer um I had some loss big loss of income compared to the previous summer and um I had some medical bills and I paid off the medical bills and neglected um the credit card ones and it kind of just snowballed from there. Mhm. Okay.

And uh are you single?

No, I'm married. My husband does not know I have debt.

Oh, he doesn't know this debt here.

Why? >> Mhm.

It's mostly because I've just embarrassed. I I don't know. You guys have separate finances?

Um yeah, for the most part.

What does he make?

Um he's retired now, so he has his um

social security um every year and then he's 401k and savings from work and um Now, how much is in his 401k?

I don't know.

Yeah, you do.

No, I have no idea.

You don't know if it's 10,000 or 10 million?

No.

We have one joint bank account. I know how much is in that account.

But I don't touch the the the joint account.

Because you've done this before and he keeps everything from you.

Um I haven't really done it before, but he's always we come to the beginning of always kind of wanted to have my own separate thing.

Um And it's not working for you, is it?

No. Yeah.

And um how long have y'all been married?

16 years. Okay. Why have you not told him?

Cuz you're ashamed. You said that, yeah.

Yeah. Does he have any debt?

She doesn't know. >> No, they don't. This is a No, no debt. How do you know?

Because he had done most of the baby steps.

But you don't know what's in the 401k, but you're sure he doesn't have any debt. That's inconsistent.

No, no debt. I can guarantee that. The car How is the state of? Cars are paid off. No debt. Okay. I don't It is I was paying some of

it is because I was paying off the credit card and we just paid we paid off

the cars last year or the year before.

How much money is in the joint account?

Um I have to look again. Probably like 15.

15?

15. 15. Okay. Okay. All right. Mhm. So,

here's what this is about.

This is about behavior. It's not about debt collectors.

This is about shame and marriage.

And you don't want to come clean because of the instant you come clean, first off, he's he's going to be disappointed, and rightly so, in you hiding this, number one, but number two, you're doing it at all cuz he's he's very good with money.

And he's not going to be happy that you aren't. And then, he's got the money He probably got a million dollars in his stinking 401k, write a check and pay this thing off. And that's actually what ought to happen because a married couple, one of them doesn't know it yet, owes $18,000. So, sorry, dude, but then, what

you owe him, Maria, is the two of you get on the same page and handle money together for the rest of your lives.

Full transparency.

Period. This this end I'm going to be independent and then go do stupid stuff has got to stop.

It's killing you, girl.

It's eating you up. You're not even sleeping good because of this.

No. I know. Scary.

And here's the weird thing. As As as you sit down with him, it's going to be a really difficult 2-hour

discussion.

And the next day you're going to feel 100 lb lighter.

Cuz you've been carrying deception around in the name of shame. And if you're not careful, it becomes an identity and then you got a real problem. And it's not an identity, it's just you screwed up. You did a thing, but that's not who you are. You are not defined by the worst thing you ever did in your life. Nor are you defined by the best thing you ever did in your life.

So, there's more to it than that. So, yeah, I I think you got to sit down with him tonight and then you guys need a new system. Your system sucks.

This I do my thing, you do your thing, it's not working.

So, you guys need to be on the same page and it sounds like this, "Honey, I need your help. Mhm. I need to know what's going on with the money not because I want to mess up your stuff, but because I want to get in on how good a job you've been doing.

Because you have this all separated and now you're just out in the cold with a bunch of money. And you don't want, you know, you don't want to live in shame either. Please, do not let the sun go down with this secret.

It's eating you up, my little sister.

Let it go.

Okay? Mhm.

Tonight you tell him, "Okay?" Mhm. Say Say okay.

No, I will talk to him, yes. Okay. Now and tell him every bit of this.

>> like a child with a bank. Yeah. And just just I am so I you know, I didn't want to tell you because I'm ashamed, I feel inept and I need your help. I need to work together with you on money from now on. The way we've been doing it for 16 years is not working. I'm not as good at it as you are. I don't want you to do it all by yourself. I want us to do it together so that I know how to do this in case something happens to you.

Yeah, Maria, just real quick, do you trust him?

Yeah. Yeah, I know.

I asked an obvious question cuz I want you to hear it.

Well, let me ask you this. What do you think What do you think his reaction would have been if a couple years ago, before you got into this mess, you said, "You know what? I want to have combined finances. I want to do this together.

I think you're better at it than me and you know what you're doing." How What What would his reaction have been?

He'd probably welcome it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I I want to say I'm bringing this up is because emotionally I want you to hear that that kind of guy who you love and

respect, who would have been on board with this from day one, while he will be disappointed, I think this a good man and I think he's going to welcome you going, "I messed up. I don't want to ever do this again." >> is the cost of us getting on the same page, I'll write the check. >> I think so, too. And that's what I'm getting at. And I I hope that takes the edge off. >> well invested, but Yeah, cuz you're right. I'll guarantee you, he's loaded.

I just have a hunch. >> There's a million dollars in that 401k for as a dime.

I think you're right. I I absolutely felt that. >> Yeah. And I feel for her, too. And I get That's why, by the way, she's so shame You nailed it. She's ashamed because he's been so good with money. Yeah. It just um

the weight of something like that is multiplied every day you carry a secret.

And when you shine light on stuff, the bugs run to the corner. The roaches run for the hills, man.

They get out there and do little dances in the dark, but it's hard for demons to exist when you shine light.

Demons don't like light. They run.

So, just when you just lay everything out, there's no place to hide.

You just got to be who you is then.

Ah, so clean.

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>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Addison and Autumn are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? Uh we live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Fine.

Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> We paid off $184,000.

Goodness. How long did that take? Uh 32

months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? It went from 127

uh to $200,000. Excellent. What do you two do for a living? I work in a family business doing drywall. Mhm. And I'm a wedding photographer. Awesome. And you're making a couple hundred a year between those two. Excellent. What kind of debt was the 184,000 in 32 months? Our house. YOU

PAID OFF YOUR HOUSE? You two weirdos.

How old are you guys? I'm 26. I'm 27.

And you paid off a house. >> Yeah. I just I can't I'm speechless. That's amazing. Congratulations. So $184,000

mortgage, what's the house worth? Uh it's around 340, somewhere around there.

Okay. How long have you two been married? Uh almost 3 years. >> Yeah. 3 years in April. So you got married, bought a house, and the first order of business is 32 months later pay it off. Well, the house was already bought. Oh, it was already bought.

>> bought the house the week that we went on our first date and met. Oh.

Yeah. So you were stuck with it. Yeah.

I like it. >> Okay. Yeah, stuck with a paid-for house.

Now, what would you say it's worth again? Like 340. Okay. And it's a paid-for house in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Yes. Wow, man. That's amazing. So what in the world And you're 24 and 26? 26 and 27. 26 and 27. I'm sorry.

Okay. All right. Wow. So uh uh what you know, all we hear about all the time and the negative things in the media is is that Gen Z, your generation, is stuck. They can't buy a house. It's not affordable out there. It's impossible. Yet, you went and bought one the week you started dating and convinced this young lady to marry you and help you pay it off.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

How How does it Where do you Where do you people come from? How does this How does this happen? How did you get How did you run into the Ramsey stuff?

Well, we grew up like our parents had like grew grew us up with Ramsey principles and like the envelope system.

And so, yeah, then Both sets of parents?

Yeah. We Yes. Both of you are financial peace babies. Pretty much. Yeah. Oh my god. I have to ask the obvious question.

Was this an arranged marriage? No.

No, but the parents were happy about it.

>> were. My dad was very happy.

I think you found a good one. He knows ABOUT THE ENVELOPES.

WOW. THIS IS INCREDIBLE. I'm serious.

You had to go home When y'all had both discovered that both your parents were doing the Ramsey stuff, that had to be a little weird. Yeah, it definitely was.

But, it was really exciting cuz it was it was like Autumn had the same values as I did, which I mean, honestly transformed and uh translated into the rest of our marriage. And it was just like, "Wow, this is very easy. I mean, this is so simple, such a simple plan." And uh we were able to work together on it seamlessly. So. How did y'all meet?

Blind date. A blind date?

>> set up. Wow, okay. So, you weren't like going to the same church or something? >> No. No. All right. Cuz I thought maybe your parents, if they'd gone through FPU together or something, that'd be too much. All right. >> Yeah. Wow, okay. Yeah. Pretty incredible. But, we just like made a lot of really like wise financial decisions like right when we were like 18, 19.

So, we like cash-flowed college and like bought cars we could afford. And you know, all the things that you teach.

>> So, when you entered into this, all there was was the mortgage. >> Yes. And it was brand new. Yes. We just got it when she started dating. Yeah. Then you get married and 32 months. So you did about 60,000 a year for 3 years,

give or take, around 5,000 bucks a month

making 127 to a high of 200. You lived

on nothing to do that. Y'all pretty intense knocking that mortgage out. It didn't really feel like nothing though.

We just followed our budget.

Okay, all right, let's get into this. What was your budget in year one of your marriage based on what income at that time? Well, it was based on roughly I mean it was 127,000 a year.

And so we just I guess it was like 8,000 a month. I guess I don't know.

>> so what was the what were the bills if you just or if you can remember what were your to cover all your expenses out of that? Oh boy.

Roughly, I'm not holding you to that. Putting like half grand a month average.

Yes, and it definitely near the end is when we started piling it on a lot more on the house. >> year. So maybe 3 grand in the early years and 6 grand or 8 grand in the later years. As Autumn's business as Autumn's photography business started to grow, um definitely was picking up a lot more weddings and yeah, the money just kind of started rolling in.

I was like, "Wow, this is amazing." And we based our budget mostly off of his income cuz I was really consistent. Mhm. So then anything extra that I made that was above the minimum amount that we set aside and planned for that I would make, we just threw on the house. So that was just our goal and so So that pull the taxes, throw the rest at the house, yeah.

Exactly. Yeah.

Cool. Good for y'all. I'm so proud of you. I know your mom and dad are proud of you.

I both of you. And they all came, right? Both sets of parents came out to celebrate. They're in Nashville, okay.

Wow, that's amazing. Very, very cool. All right, um Well, this is kind of makes the case of it's very important to choose a good mate. Oh, yeah.

We've been talking about the value of marriage earlier. Dave went on a marriage rant that was great and this really illustrates it. Here's what I want to know because we put it to you guys like you guys were super intense and Autumn your response was, "It was fine.

Mhm. So, as a young couple, you're starting out, and the world is your oyster, right? How did you develop that contentment? Was it

a a discipline thing, or was it the way you were raised? I'd love to know why you were so content. >> Mhm. It was definitely the way we were raised, but also like we're Christians, so like we we knew that there was joy in contentment and and just not comparing ourselves to anybody else. So, it was just like how we could keep our keep looking at it like each other and just connecting with each other.

Um, yeah. Yeah, and we made the budget together, and we were both like okay with it. We still did so many fun things, too. So. I love I'm just I'm

just I just don't sense a lot of time spent with Instagram influencers.

No. I mean, I'm on Instagram, but I know, well, you have a child I mean, you have a photography background, yeah.

But I mean, I got I don't think you're sitting there doom scrolling wanting stuff. I mean, it's just >> No. Yeah, that's not you. Yes.

>> And matter of fact, there's some data out right now that shows the amount of hours spent on Instagram equals the number of dollars spent. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Okay, quick follow-up for this young couple, cuz a lot of young couples listening to this, they think you guys are amazing.

>> How have you What are your dreams? Give us You don't have to give us this grand plan or share something you don't want to share, but what How have you your dreams, or is there something that has changed now that you realize that you guys have a house included, and you're 26 and 27?

Yeah, it's it's kind of surreal, because like I it's something that as I bought the house as I was like working like straight out of high school at 18, it was something that I was like striving for. Like I knew I wanted to buy a house, and I knew I wanted to to pay it off, and then to marry someone who had the same values. And like when she like we both wanted to pay it off right away. So, it was just like it was really cool to be able to work on that work on that together and enjoy enjoy that life together.

So, now looking forward I don't know, I mean, we're just excited to build wealth together and and build a a life that is good for our family for us.

Congrats. >> So, I think that's just like so motivating and encouraging. Like when we set a goal, we can work towards that together and just be on the same page and like yeah, it can be go faster than we really ever expected it to go. All right. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is?

Honestly, contentment like you were talking about. Just keeping your eyes fixed on the goal that you have as a as a couple or as a family. Um Sticking to your budget. Setting that have that conversation together and we were both okay with every line item, how much we were giving and so, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Now that you're 100% free,

no payment at all, does it feel different than you thought it would feel? Uh yeah, it's just kind of like uneventful cuz life still goes on.

>> Like we still we were living in the house, so like No nobody shot off fireworks in the backyard. It was weird.

No. Yeah. No, I was like sick when we paid like our last mortgage payment, too. So, it really felt just like Yeah. Yeah. I got the flu. I don't care.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're going to throw we're going to celebrate today. We're going to have fireworks going crazy. We're so proud of y'all. Y'all are amazing. You're like the perfect couple. You You young You Gen Z'ers, here here's your poster children right here. Addison and Autumn, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, 184,000 paid off house and everything in 32 months from 26 years

old and 27 years old. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

3 2 1 We're debt free. YEAH.

>> WOW.

SO, IT'S INTERESTING.

I was um checking out at a place the other day and um young men working the valet, two two high schoolers. One of them was in our classes in high school.

And he's like, "Hey man, stuff on YouTube, man. Cool. Thank you, man." and all this stuff. And he said um So, give give me one of the other one pipes up and he said, "Give me a proverb, Dave." And I went,

"Okay. Where's that coming from?" Cuz I I love proverbs and this kid must have actually known something about who we were. And so um because if you read Proverbs, the book of wisdom in the Bible, over and over you'll have a master's degree in finance. And it happened to be the 22nd of March.

And I said, "Well, here's one for you.

Proverbs 22:7 says, 'The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender.'" Oh, by the way, here's the interesting thing. Proverbs 22:6 says,

"Train up a child in the way he should go.

And when he is old, he will not depart

from it." Now, keep in mind that there are not numbers in the original scriptures. And so, there's no 22:6, 22:7. So, if you actually just read that, it says, "Train up a child in the way he should go. When he's old, he'll not depart from it. The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender.

Train up a kid that's to stay out of debt. It's pretty close. But we separate those because proverbs are very disconnected sayings and we don't usually put them together. And I said, "So, train your kids up to stay out of debt." And uh so, train them up when they go on a dating website to find another family that went through financial peace. See, when you change your family tree, here's how you do it.

You cannot change your family tree simply by stacking cash.

If you raise idiots, they will go through everything you made, no matter what you make.

If you leave idiots money, there will be no money. It will not survive one generation. No kidding, we all know that. I mean, you can't leave them you know, $100 million, they'll still blow it. And there's not a You can't but you can't stack enough cash to leave it to idiots. So, the way you change your family tree has two components to it.

One is you raise godly, strong, contented

young men and women that find each other and choose to marry someone like them and you leave them a stack of cash.

In this case, this young couple has not had yet the inheritance of the stack of cash that is waiting on both of them probably.

But instead, they are already almost millionaires at 26 and 27 with a paid-for house, been married only 3 years. In 32 months, they paid off their house. But mom and dad changed their family tree by teaching in both cases.

These kids were raised in an environment of biblical wisdom, common sense ways of

handling money, get out of debt, stay out of debt, be on a budget. They're financial peace babies.

They know not to They don't have credit cards. They're They're not motivated by the name brand on your purse.

They're not motivated by fill in the blank of stupid stuff that people in America do and that consequently are broke, spending money that you don't have to buy things you really can't afford to impress people you don't even really like. That's the opposite of what we're talking about. And this young couple is like this is like every parent's dream come true. Not only to raise one, but then have them marry another one. Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

Isn't that the fun most fun thing you could think of? The only thing that would add to that is if you had somehow officiated the wedding. That would have probably You asked me, was there any more fun? That would have probably been I mean, it would have been quite the you know, you just zip in. >> pretty boring and stuff like that.

>> No, that's not a That would not be a good thing. >> you in a tux would be also exciting.

A little little Yeah, we're not even Yeah, this You asked Just keep it up, Ken. Just keep it >> was proverbial. Yeah. Is that what you >> It was rhetorical. >> Rhetorical, that's the word. That's the word, yeah. Rhetorical. That's the part where you're quiet, yeah.

I try to be when you're on, I really do.

Okay. >> suggestion. >> is the point is the way you change your family tree Yeah. is you change the mathematics of your situation, your net worth. Instead of retiring and having to eat dog food and calling up your relatives for money cuz you're broke and you worked your whole life and you have nothing to show for it cuz you spend everything you made your whole stinking life. Instead of doing that, you changed your life. Yeah. In the process, your kids watched.

And it changes their life. >> That's right. And then they become

a better version of you and a wiser version of you and you've changed your family tree. Add to that a high net worth and now you've got amazing things that happen.

So, if you study the Old Testament for instance, you would know that inheritance is very biblical uh when done properly.

And when understood it is actually God's money that you're managing.

So, see, David was prevented from

building the temple because of misbehavior.

And uh named Bathsheba. As UFO, an unclad female object. And so, um yeah, he was prevented from building the temple. So, his son Solomon would build the temple. What did Solomon build the temple with? His own money? No, with David's money. It was inherited money that built the temple. And it was somewhere around 20 billion dollars in

today's dollars to build that structure.

If you do the biblical money narrative and you fast forward that with inflation uh several thousand years, you get you get a you know, a ridiculous amount of money. So, this billionaire left a

billions of dollars to his son who built the temple. Inherited money built the temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

That's interesting when you think about it. Yeah. And so, this I did of generational change is entirely possible.

And it can go negative and it can go positive, but you you've got the ability to change your family tree. And that that last couple, man, that's just everything.

That's the whole thing. So, if you're working the baby steps, we want to get you on every dollar because that's what everybody says when they're doing their debt-free scream. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I say it over and over and over again.

And all the time, what do they say? Got to be on a budget. Got to be working together. Got to be on a budget together.

Got to be working together on a budget. Got to be on a budget. Got to be on a budget. Every dollar.

We love every dollar. Every dollar got us out of debt.

to make you do the budget the correct way to work our system. And if you don't want to work our system, you're really not going to like EveryDollar cuz we're going to be like up in your face going, "This is the fastest way to get out of debt and build wealth and be outrageously a and change your whole family tree.

is every dollar. And it's free. You can download it at the App Store or Google Play. Ta-da, just like that. David is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi David, how are you? I'm doing well. How about you, Dave and Ken? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

Um so, I am a Lutheran pastor and my

question is should I opt out of Social Security and what steps should I take if I do so? Cuz I mean, you've been mentioning changing your family tree.

If I did that, I would actually change my family tree with investing and also helping out fellow Christians.

Cuz I mean, as a pastor >> old are you, David?

I'm 28. Perfect. Okay. Great question

and I've counseled pastors Financial Peace University has been taught in 50,000 churches in the past 25 years.

So, I've been asked this question a lot.

And here are the Here's the the the three or four components to to the core to the situation. Number one, Social Security provides three things. Disability in the event you became completely disabled. So, you need to make sure you have disability insurance. You need that anyway, whether you're Social Security or not. If you die, your children, your minor children will get money from Social Security. They won't get that if you opt out. So, you need life insurance. You need that anyway, about 10 to 12 times your income.

So, those are the two main things and of course, you're going to retire. And so, you're not going to have Social Security when you retire if you opt out. And so, you need to be investing for retirement, but you need to be doing that anyway cuz Social Security is not enough. You dog food if you're on Social Security. So, you have to do those three things if you opt out because you're vulnerable if you don't.

Disability insurance, life insurance,

and make sure you're saving for retirement. The fourth The fourth component is the IRS paperwork says that if in order to opt out, you have to be a conscientious objector, which means I object to the Social Security system on a spiritual basis.

Okay? Not just I don't like it.

Okay? I, as a Christian, could object to it. I can't cuz I'm a pastor I'm not a pastor, but I could object to it on a spiritual basis saying it's a horrible use money. It's bad stewardship. And so

I easily could sign that in good conscience, but you need to be able to sign that in good conscience and say spiritually I disagree with the Social Security system.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. D is in El Paso, Texas. Hi D,

how are you?

Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um yeah, so my husband spends a lot of our landscaping budget on trying to get get grass to grow in the desert.

Is it fair for me to ask him to spend

feudal grass spending from his fun money?

How much is he spending? I got to know this number.

Well, like in a summer season between sod and seed and water, it's probably like 250 to 300 bucks out of our $500

budget.

Your $500 budget for what?

The The $500 The $500 is the line item for landscaping?

Yeah, for like a season. Okay.

>> a lot. Okay. And what's your household income?

I mean, it's a trivial amount compared to our budget.

>> What's your household income? >> 210. What? Uh sorry, 210. 210,000. Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. And um so, you know, and it's

So, it is it the um

futility that bothers you?

I think so, and um we just have like,

even though we have uh a high income, we have a lot of other things that we're putting that money towards. So, it's like we've carved out this number that we agree on, and

yeah, so maybe it is the futility, and I don't mind it that he wants to experiment with growing grass, but this is three seasons now. So, is it fair to just call it a hobby?

How much does he enjoy it? Apparently, a

lot.

Well, does he enjoy it, or does he just feel like it's really ugly, and it's more of a a thing that bothers him versus he's really loving the time spent on it? That's what I'm trying to get at.

I think that he's an analytical person who doesn't like to lose. Mhm.

>> And so, I feel like it's almost like Sisyphian. >> against >> the grass. By the way, great word. You win caller of the day for using that word. That's fabulous. >> And him trying to beat the sun is That's a tough one. That's a tough one-on-one battle. >> seed is another one. They They have some great lines. Oh, man.

Um Okay.

I Um because it is a very small amount of your world, and it gives him joy.

I don't care which line item it's in, it still leaves your house.

They're still You're still spending $250 on futility, regardless of what you what you label it. You could label it futility in the budget. Have you a customized the feudal seed budget? >> That's a different kind of utility.

>> Yeah. And so, uh you just put it right there under, you know, subset of landscaping and it's, you know, you name it what it is, but it still leaves your budget.

Right. Oh.

And you've got another line item you want that money to go to, correct?

Yes. >> Which one? What is it?

We're saving to put in a shade structure in our backyard. A what structure?

Like a a shade awning thing.

>> Shade structure, okay.

Okay. And what does the shade structure cost?

Uh it'll be about seven grand. Okay.

All right. And so, there's 200 $250 a month for six months is $1,500, right?

Yeah. Okay.

All right. So, I think the way this would sound at our house, okay, net net, I agree with you that this is feudal, probably. And net net, I agree that it's cool for him to want to do it anyway. And net net, we're all in agreement on these three things. You have the money, it's no big deal, okay?

So, uh it's not killing your family, your children have diapers, all that. I mean, we're okay. So, um the uh uh

the So, at our house, it would sound something like this. Look, it's bothering Sh- Sharon would say, "It's bothering me that we're wasting money on X because we're saving for Y and I think we could get there faster. And I'll say, "Yeah, but it would bother me to not do the futility seeds. I need to do those.

It's good for me." And so, I'll cut the Let's cut the budget some other places and let you get Let's get the shade thing a little faster by cutting in other areas.

either one of us because in this case, this actually means something to him. He has a valid vote in this process.

It means something to you to increase the speed at which we buy the shelter from the same sun that's killing the grass. Um I wonder if these things could work together. But Yes. Oh, there you go. We'll have a large We'll have a little patch of grass. Yeah, under the shade.

>> the shade. Dave, that's actually brilliant. >> I'm telling you. This is why I'm here.

Uh you know what Stacy would say? She would go like this at our house. She would say, uh So, how do we feel? How do we feel?

>> does that and it snaps me out of it. And I always go, "We? You don't You don't feel >> You got a mouse in your pocket? >> Yeah, you're never out there." She'll say to me like, "We should weed." I go, "You don't weed anything. Yeah.

It's It's not we.

>> statement. >> But it's a great one for a wife cuz it snaps me out of it and lets me know that she's probably questioning her own actions. >> Oh, that means I have a trash problem. >> That's right. We should go to the dump.

That's never the two of us.

>> That's funny. I like that. >> Stacy and the queen of the weeds. >> and her man get along. Right.

>> The passive-aggressive >> It It snaps me out of it cuz I realize, "Oh, the queen is not happy with something." >> We. We are We are buying seed in

futility. >> Here's why I I am on D's husband's side.

I'm not anti-D. D, I get it. The I I It's kind of a fun call. It is, but here's the deal, Dave. Yard work for me is very therapeutic. I enjoy getting

out, doing a little bit of landscaping.

I'm no architect, as you you as you would know. But, I do enjoy the time out there. My brain freeze up. I get some good thinking done because I'm I'm on this menial task.

I get it. He doesn't want to give up yet. So, I think the approach is is how how do you feel about this season? You think it's going to work?

How many more seasons are we going to try this? I want to give you the Stacy tip and see >> of felt that way about our Titans tickets. Oh, exactly. How many more seasons are we going to try this?

>> How many more seasons?

Yeah. It's Talk about futility.

Boy, that's so true. You NFL fans know what we mean. Our beloved Titans. We got another uniform, another new logo.

I don't think we have any new results. We'll see.

Oh, D, it's fun. We're not giving you much of an answer, but I think he has a valid point. It is It is that, but I

also think it's valid for you to bring up because you feel like this is futile.

We need to squeeze somewhere else in the budget if you're not willing to give up the futile seeds. And I actually love Dave's and I'm being serious, D. I love Dave's suggestion. We save up, we stop

the futility, we save up for the shaded

structure, and then he tries to grow grass underneath that. I think that's actually a stroke of genius.

>> I don't I don't think it I don't think it'll work, but I think you need sun. But, what do I know?

>> It's the arid climate, Ken. It's not >> That's it. Just get a bag of rocks.

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

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slash ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kristen in Idaho. My husband and I are in our mid-50s and both work full-time.

I contribute 15% in my employer's 401k, but my husband works for a small business and doesn't receive retirement benefits. Would you recommend that I increase my investments to cover the both of us? I don't think so, because just because he doesn't have an employer program, he still has an income and he can still be investing at that 15% rate that we teach. So, it's the principle, not necessarily the product.

And in this case, if you invest the way we teach, then he can absolutely start investing in retirement. So, you don't have to double up. You can, but what I would I would use some extra in yours if I had to, Christian. Yes.

You can do $8,600 each every year right now.

And so, that's 17,200 bucks.

Uh that 15% of 100,000, you know, would get you that, right? So, I mean, that's 17% of a $100,000 income.

So, if that doesn't get you with what you're doing in your 401k to 15%. So, if

he makes over $100,000, you'll need to do something more than or over $110,000, you'll need to do something more than two Roth's. But, you can do 8,600 a piece at uh at age 50.

And that all, you know, both of them in in 8,600 your name, 8,600 in his name, go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor Pro. Find a Smart Vestor Pro in your area, they can set that up and have it auto drafted out of your checking account. It's very easy to do. In the four types of mutual funds we talk about, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. That's how mine is set up, that's how Ken's is set up. And if that plus your 401k doesn't get you there, because he makes 200k,

which okay.

He works for a small business and doesn't receive retirement benefits. The likelihood of him making 200k is pretty low. Probably. Okay. So, more than likely, you know, that'll do it. But, if it doesn't, then you could add some to yours. But, I would want you to do two Roth IRAs before you talk about adding to yours.

And to Ken's point. And um so, I think you can get there without any trouble.

London is in Atlanta. Hi, London. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How are you? Just the same, sir. How can I help?

Uh so, I'm on my last credit card of my

debt snowball. And it's at $7,800 that I got. And the entire time that I've been paying it, I've had a 0% APR on it um

until the start of this year. And now it's skyrocketed up to 28%.

Uh I'm wondering if it would be smart to

seek a a debt consolidation loan to get

a lower APR or if I should just um

bear down and What do you make? pay it off at a lower APR. Uh I make 4,700 right now.

Uh but, I'm getting married in 2 weeks.

And >> What does she make? >> quite sure. We're not quite sure. She's starting a new job. So, uh but, she'll be making 15 an hour uh part-time.

Why part-time?

Uh the it's a career advancement for her. And this is kind of an entry-level and they aren't offering full-time um for a little while.

Okay.

I'm sorry, part-time $15 doesn't sound like career advancement to me.

Uh well, it's for a pharmacy position.

So, there's a lot of room for growth.

Is she a pharmacist?

No, she's a tech. So, she's working um

All right. Yeah, she needs to get full-time work.

And if they don't if they don't provide that within 30 days, she needs to get a different job. There's no cur- This is not career career advancement on counting pills out is not No.

No, it's not you know, she's not a farm- Pharmacist going to make 135. She's not.

So, Right. uh Anyway, side from that that cuz that that but that does bring us to the point of it while she's working part-time, she needs another part-time job, too. Um, because you guys have a $7,800 debt. What other debts do you all have?

Uh, no, that's all of it. Yeah, does she have any money? Do you have any money? Not in retirement.

Uh, I've got a $1,000 for my emergency fund, but aside from that, no. And she doesn't have any money No, no no debt, either. Okay. All right, good. All right, cool.

All right. Well, the the answer is you know, no, I would not get a consolidation loan. You're going to get yourself off into some deep water with some bad paper, some bad loan terms there. Uh, what I would do is shop for a different credit card that has a 0% and just do a balance transfer.

And but here's the thing, it's $7,800.

I want you to pay this off in like 2 months.

I want you all to work like 24/7 and clear it up right now.

That's kind of been the how I paid off my other credit cards cuz I was taking up side work, but my side work's kind of slowed down right now. Well, get a different side work.

Okay.

Get more side work. >> There's always side work.

Lots of side work. What do you do for a living?

Uh, I'm a machinist. >> Oh, great. Man, you can find some work for sure. There's definitely people. Uh, good lord, and you're in Atlanta? A market that size? Oh, you can find work for sure. >> Well, I'm I'm north of Atlanta. I'm over closer to Blue Ridge. Okay. Well, you may have to may have to haul a little bit to get to some work then, but anyway, yeah, you're you're anyway, yes,

I would pick up extra work, side work, and the it's not 78,000, so this should not be around long.

And so the interest rate if you only have it for 3 months, the interest rate almost doesn't matter.

Okay. >> If if if the debt is going to be around 3 to 6 months, max, the interest rate is almost irrelevant.

But if you want to burn some calories and go get a 0% transfer credit card or a 5% interest current transfer credit card, I don't care. Anything like that, transfer it to another card, and then cut this one up, and then cut that one up as soon as you do the transfer, and then still pay it off just as fast. But, you have a $7,800 problem. You don't have a $700 problem.

And 700 is the interest we're talking about. So, that's, you know, 700 doesn't solve your problem. If you got another 0%, it doesn't solve the problem. It's still sitting there looking at you. You need a grand. As soon as you're getting married, and you need to go get it as fast as you can, and clean it up as fast as you possibly can. And, you know, that that's how I would go at this. Susan's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Susan. How are you?

I'm fine, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Uh we have a second home. It's um

um my husband and I were recently married. I didn't do anything for about a year with the home. I rented it for a year. And then when we started to delve into it, we thought we'd flip it real quick. Uh but, it's kind of become a nightmare.

And to bring it up to code, it's costing us a lot. Um so, the question is to keep, you know, plugging along, cash flowing it, or we're we brought a contractor in, and we're looking at 80 to $100,000 to get everything done. There is a mortgage still on the home.

So, we're we're kind of looking at what option >> How much is owed on the home?

Uh 80,000. Okay, what will it sell for as is?

Uh as is, I don't think it's going to bring much because it's been pretty much gutted. That's the big problem. As is, what will it sell for? Have someone look at it and tell me. What do you think it's really going to sell for? All the emotion about you being pissed off about this house or whoever gutted it, I don't care about. What will the house actually sell for?

Maybe 125. Sell it.

I wouldn't put 80 in it. Sell it and put a few dollars in your pocket.

Move on. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I won't Why put 80 into that? You put 80 into it, now now it's got to bring over 160 for you to break even on that investment, and it's already a piece of crap house that you hate.

Right?

Not exactly, but but I understand.

>> Yeah, I mean you're you're No adjective you used towards the house was positive.

Yeah, anyway, that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes.

This thing is it's a leftover from another life that was imported into this new marriage, and it needs to be jettisoned from the new marriage. I want to clean up I want to clean house, no pun intended.

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Josh, how are you?

I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my question is my wife and I have been going back and forth on whether or not it makes sense to keep our country club membership at this stage in our life and finances.

Ooh. Who says keep it? Who says get rid of it? You know, I would say I'm probably leaning more keep, my wife is probably leaning more get rid of it, but at the same time I'd say in the recent months it's been a little bit back and forth of there are times where we'll talk about it and she says keep it.

Okay, you probably had a big up front on it, right? Um so, we've been there for 6 years. We joined as junior members and we had a a pretty small upfront, actually, but then the catch is now as I'm getting older and kind of progressing up the different membership classes, if we left and came back, I'd then be hit with a big down stroke. I'd be hit with about a $50,000 down stroke if we left and came back.

>> Okay. All right.

So, base salaries end up right under 300, and then with bonuses and everything, we pretty commonly clear a little over four, sometimes a little more than that. Okay. Is this a golf membership, also?

Yeah. Yeah. And how often do you play?

So, I'll play two to three times a week during the season. We're in Chicago, so I mean we get I mean Memorial Day through Labor Day. What are your dues?

So, monthly dues before we walk in the door are 865, um and during the winter, it's about that. We don't really eat out there much during the winter, and um during the season, we play quite a bit, eat there, pretty involved socially, so couple maybe two to two grand to 2,500 a

month we're playing we're paying in season. Yeah, but you're also that that's in lieu of restaurants and some of that.

Correct. Yeah, so um or green fees, for that matter.

Um Do you have any debt?

We do. We do have some car debt. Should be cleared by the end of this year, but we have about 77,000 in car debt, and that's the it's that and our house that we have. Okay. Well, based on your usage, I don't know why you're thinking about getting rid of it.

You have the money I mean you you have the income to support that. Some of that's the the equivalent of a restaurant bill. So, basically, it's 1,000 bucks a month, $12,000 a year, and you play unlimited golf, I assume.

Correct. And um and usually you got like a food minimum, right? Yeah, I I'd say the reason I'm actually I don't have In my category, I don't have a food minimum. Um >> So the So the 2,000's if you actually did eat then. Correct.

>> Or take or take guests on the golf course, yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. So you can afford all that

if you weren't using it

and you're just burning a thousand dollars a month and you never golfed and you didn't go over there and eat then yeah, that starts to be the time that that season has that sun has set, right?

And so we sunset the idea and we move on cuz it's not it's this season of our life where not there. Uh an example would be um one of the guys working here is a member of a club that we have a corporate sponsorship into and he said I can't go play golf, I have little kids.

And he goes, "I'm not paying a thousand dollars a month to just say I belong over there." And food's okay food's okay, but it's basically a golf club. And so he's like, "No, I'm out." And so cuz he's not that and he you know, someday he may want to join something again, but it's probably a decade from now because he's got little kids and a round of golf five hours, you know.

So that was kind of where the question came from a little bit is so we I mean my wife and I were early 30's and we've got two kids both I mean we've got a one-year-old and like a four-month-old.

Um and so I do see my golf usage dwindling a little bit, but at the same time I mean I it's something I do want for my kids when they are old enough to enjoy it in let's say five six years something like that. My thought was if I left and rejoined I'd be hit with a huge down stroke at that point. So does it make sense to kind of keep it there in these next five to six years where I won't be using it quite as much.

You know, don't pay for a subscription that you don't read. Don't pay for a membership you don't use. Right? But if you're going over there and playing golf um um you know, a Chicago club's tough.

Uh there there's some iconic clubs there obviously. And um I mean I played Medinah up there the other day and it's incredible.

As an as an example, but I'm sure with based on the numbers you're giving me that's not what we're talking about. But the uh Anyway, there there's some iconic things up there. I I think when you cease to use it enough because of whatever reason, kids or whatever, then you would cancel it. But in today you're doing that in anticipation of that because it today's actual usage justifies keeping it.

Makes sense. And um and you know,

because you can't go back uh in baby step two I would keep it because of your income. Now, if you told me your income is a 100 grand, I would have we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I just don't care about your junior membership. You just can't afford it. But you're you know, you're making 300 plus and it's $12,000 and you can't get back in, so

you stay in to stay in. And but I wouldn't keep it 10 years with non-usage either. Yeah. I think it's an ROS, return on spend there.

And I mean I'll tell you what happened to me. I I joined the same golf club. I got bit I've always enjoyed golf, but I really wanted to play a lot and for 2 years I did. And then I found another hobby and in this season of my life I don't have time for two hobbies cuz I could go all in.

>> does not need a golf course. It's essentially what happened. My own wife said, "So when was the last time you played golf?" And I said, "Well, it's probably been 3 weeks cuz every nice day I was trying to get a pickleball game." And so it came down to I realized it just doesn't make any sense.

Vincent in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Vincent, how are you?

I'm doing good. How can we help?

Well, I got a I got a Shelby uh limited edition GT 500 and it's worth it's worth about 105 I owe about about $65,000

on it. But the question I have is I owe the IRS a little bit of money about $18,000 and got some credit card bills.

And the car value which is a very rare car is going to be a value. I'm trying to wait to at least get up to 150,000 or I should just sell it now and clear off all my debt and everything else. If you did not own it and you had $40,000 in your checking account and you said I could either clean up my debts or I could go borrow another 65 and buy a car that I hope goes up in value, you would never do that. You need to sell this car.

It is a fabulously cool car.

I love the car.

But dude, you're broke.

You don't need to be driving a $100,000 car. You're broke.

Okay.

I don't think he anticipated that response. Yeah. I mean it's a hundred it's he said a $105,000 value or 65.

Take the 40 grand, clean up the mess, and move on. You can you know when you become wealthy someday and you have extra money, you can buy cars. It's okay. I buy cars. I like I like wild cars, crazy cars. I like it's fun. And that's a neat vehicle. GT500 GT500 A

GT500 Boy, that it's going to be a sad day.

Yeah. Make no mistake about it, Vincent.

What we're suggesting here is not painless. No, it's I just just That's a beast of a car.

Just removed your little finger. >> I would get one more burn out of it before I sold it.

I would burn those tires one more time.

>> It's a it's a horse. But yeah, it's it it's a it's a classic muscle car. It is going up in value. I don't disagree with you there. I don't think you're in a position to borrow money to invest in collectibles going up in value. And that's essentially what you have done.

And so I would tell you to get out of it even though my 15-year-old redneck boy says that's the coolest car ever. But yeah, still got to sell it.

It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

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to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

Scripture today, 1 Corinthians 13:6 and 7. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Thomas Sowell said, "Facts can be ignored, but their consequences cannot be escaped. Woo. Logan is with us in Illinois. Hi Logan,

how are you? Hi Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm 29 years old. I'm a single father.

Basically extenuating circumstances over the last couple years has led me to this mountain of debt and I just I I can't even look at the bills anymore and I don't know where to start.

Okay, how big is the mountain?

Uh quick list, $26,000

in total would kind of get me set straight. Be debt free. So $26,000 in debt. Okay.

And give me a little breakdown on that. What kind of debt is it?

A lot of it's credit cards.

How much? Uh credit cards, I've got one that's 2775

28%.

Um I got another one that's only 639. I

got another that's 2980.

Um and then I think one that's another 600. That's

only $7,000.

Yeah. Okay. So they're emotionally heavy, but they're not that much. So what's the other $19,000?

Um I have a 2016 Chevy Malibu.

Uh $10,139 left at 13.63%.

>> Mhm. Um that thing is just I mean it's

falling apart. And the rest of it what's the other $10,000 in debt? The other

debt is mostly medical. I'm looking a

lot of medical. Um there's one from my last apartment um that I had to move out and I just couldn't afford it. I >> Are you Are you paying them monthly right now? No, I am not. They to a collector and I owe $2,290 to them.

>> Medical bills, do you pay any of those monthly right now?

Uh I just Yeah, I'm trying. Okay. And the from different places. >> And the um what's your income?

Uh 40,000 salary. I just got a new job.

So, I'm starting uh in 2 days. What were you What did you used to make?

Uh I was making a little bit more than that. I was making about 45 with But, I was working a crap ton of overtime um and I was not seeing my child.

So, this is >> were making more money, but were not current, and so you took a job making less money.

I did, but I well, I'm driving an hour 2 hours less a day. I'm not driving an hour to and from work every day.

Okay. So, that's going to save probably about 2 to 3,000 in gas.

>> Uh I am a I'm going to be a paralegal.

And how old is your child?

He's 9 years old. He'll be 10 in May.

Okay. And so, he and your ex live around you there.

Um yes. Yeah, she lives about 20 minutes away. I'm going through court proceedings and everything right now to get custody, and that's How long have you been divorced?

Um we were never married. We've been split up since he was about 1 years old, and I've been fighting this uphill battle for the better part of 7 years.

And you've been seeing him during that time? Yes, all the time. Um more so >> So, why is there a battle if you're seeing him?

Uh I just That seems the way it goes. We I fought for joint custody. Um she had the majority custody in the split-up, and then I had to fight to get joint custody. Finally had joint custody for the last couple years, and then there was uh issues that gave me protective

custody over them for last 6 months. And now I'm doing trying to get full custody or majority custody, but the judge wants us to do mediation and that costs $600 per party and then I had to pay the attorney another three.

Mhm. Were you a paralegal in this previous job doing all the overtime?

No, I was not. >> What were you doing?

Uh I was working at a warehouse on a forklift.

Yeah, I I I'm going to tell you um I I appreciate that you're saving gas on

the hour each day, but you need to be working crazy hours where you are now.

You really do. You can get out of this pretty quickly. Yeah, so here's the thing. You've spent um 90% of your brain power fighting custody

for the last however many years. You spend almost 0% managing money.

Agreed? I mean you put all of your energy into the non-zero, which is good.

You're a dad and you trying to do things for your kid and I I don't I don't blame you for that, but you get what you

um lean on and so you're going to have to lean on this money piece from an income production standpoint a side hustle temporarily long enough to clean some of this up

and to start to plow through it. To get rid of the credit cards and cut them up and get this car paid off and whatever

else we've got to do to get this thing moving, right? Um I mean you're not paying on the old debts anyway. Just let them sit for now.

I don't care about your credit and then I want you to pile up some cash. Let's get this car paid off as fast as you possibly can and get these credit cards paid off as fast as you can. The interest rates are bothering you. I know that cuz you brought them up in detail.

They're Yeah, it would seems like it >> rates are not your problem. The the rates next. I didn't say they're bothering you, but I didn't say they're your problem. Interest rates aren't your problem. They're only your problem cuz they've been around so long.

But, if you pay off these cars, your $7,000 cleans up your credit card debt, all of it.

And so, 17,000 makes your life whole.

And so, if I'm you, I'm going to go find $1,500 a month, which is $18,000 a year,

and I'm going to cut into my monthly budget to an to the tune of at least $1,000 a month. That puts $2,500 a month

on 17. That's a 6- or 8-month program,

and you're debt-free, except the medical bills and the old landlord debt.

And you can breathe again.

But But, right now, you've focused all of your energy and time. You've spent zero time analyzing and attacking the money thing, because you spent all of your calorie burn on this custody fight, which is totally acceptable. I'm not shaming you for that. I'm just pointing out that when you bother to care about the money 1/10 as much as you care about this custody thing, it's going to straighten up.

But, you have to lean in on it hard, like you've been leaning on this other thing hard.

And And >> I go first? Well, I I know some people say interest rates, some people say >> give a crap about your interest rates. I want you to get your budget on beans and rice, rice and beans. I want you to pick up 1,500 a month in side hustle, and I want you to put 2,500 a month towards credit cards. If you do that, in 3 months, the credit cards are gone, and in 4 more months, the car debt is gone.

That's 7 months.

2,500 * 7 into 17, that counted up.

Interest rates don't matter when you're doing it that fast.

And so, list your debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and then get pissed off about this. It's been riding on your back too long. You need to get this thing off your back.

And by the way, your head will be clearer to to be a better dad and to fight these other battles if you're not broke. Um and then go clean up the little medical bills. They're like a bunch of freaking mosquitoes around your head.

And then call the landlord and offer him 25 cents on the dollar lump sum once

you've got a little money saved up and they'll clear that. You could be debt free in like a year.

Completely debt free in a year. But you're going to have you know, you're going to have no you're going to get nothing done during that year except

9-year-old work all the time 9-year-old

work some more and pay debt. And that's it's the only thing you get to do for the next year. Complete focus.

And you can knock this out very quickly.

I'm going to send you a copy of the book The Total Money Makeover to help you do it and we're going to get you signed up for every dollar. Chris will pick up and get all of that happening for you. You can do this. You've just been completely focused on something else, which by the way was the right thing to do.

You should be focused on your kid before you're focused on money. But the great news is is that cleaning up the money also helps the kid cuz it puts you in a better position to fight when you're not broke and staring at interest rates all the time.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 101. Life Happens — Don’t Let It Wreck Your Finances | August 15, 2025


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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsy Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, and Ramsey Personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Mary is in Canada. Hi Mary, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

Um, so we I'm in a situation where uh

I've been married and my husband lost his job about two years ago and there's been a bunch of different circumstances that leading me to think that unfortunately this relationship might not work out. Um, so in preparing for

that cuz we do have some debt that accumulated especially in the last two years. I'm just kind of wondering like should I pay off some of this debt before we officially separate to make

things easier or how to proceed with

that?

>> Okay. So, what what's going on with him?

>> Um, well, he he was he lost his job two

years ago. um he took that very very

hard and it affected his mental health

significantly and he's been really struggling with that and we've been trying to support him. Um unfortunately

in dealing with that um some of his

choices have been not the correct ones,

you know, going into substance abuse and

>> and things like that.

>> So he's got he's he's an addict. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And well that I'm sorry that frames up

that frames up the whole thing a little differently. Okay. >> All right. And so what do you make a year?

>> Uh I make about 140 to 150,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how much debt do you guys have?

>> Uh so we have about 125,000

in debt and then our mortgage.

>> And how much is on the mortgage?

155,000. >> What's the house worth?

>> Um, if we were to sell it now, probably 500.

>> So, you got substantial equity and the 125 in debt is on what?

>> Uh, so there is one vehicle that's uh

there and then >> how much? >> There's about 50,000 on the vehicle.

>> Okay.

And then there's 7,000 on credit card

and the rest is a line of credit.

>> Okay. All right. Okay. And do you have

any money saved that's not retirement?

>> Uh about $1,800.

>> $1,800.

>> $1,800. I have $1,800. He has about

12,000.

>> Okay. So, you don't really have the option of paying off the debt.

if you're leaving anytime soon.

So, the debt is going to get the debt is going to get divided up in the divorce, is it not?

>> Yeah. But right now, he has no income to

>> understand. >> So, >> but that'll be his problem after the divorce. Pay him >> that these are based on the choices he's made.

>> Mhm. >> That's his issue. It's not going to be your issue anymore, right?

Well, no, but I think legally I will have to give him some money >> uh monthly.

>> I'm hoping to do it in a lump sum.

>> Yeah. Out of the house. Yeah. So, I would sell the house and clear the debt and clear him and start fresh.

>> That would be my strategy. But that's all part of the divorce, I think. I have no idea how this crap works in Canada.

>> Have you talked to a lawyer, Mary?

Um I did and it's

the answer is definitely we'll have to pay him something. Um

and you know selling the house is I like

ideally I would like to avoid that cuz

>> you want to keep it. >> Why?

um for the kids a little bit. It's, you

know, it's where my support

is. >> Um you know, >> but you got $125,000 in debt. You don't have a way to clear. >> I know.

>> Yeah. >> Who's driving the $50,000 car

>> currently? That's mine. Yeah.

>> We had two paid cars and then that's that's going to be sold unless you sell the house.

Yeah, >> because you can't afford it. You can't do all of this, Mary. You got to decide.

You're going to have to decide where the pain is. And um the uh your support's in

that neighborhood. It's not in that house, >> right? >> So, I mean, go down the street and rent an apartment in the area and that's got cuz the kids, listen, the idea that you keep the home is going to make the kids okay. The kids aren't okay already.

Their dad's an addict. He hadn't worked in two years. The kids feel all of this in the air already. It's already established in your household. So, the kids are already going through trauma and moving is the least of their traumas. Um, especially if you just move down the street and keep them in the same school and so forth. So, that

I don't know what you're going to do. Uh, I'm sorry you're facing this. It's awful. But, you need 125,000 and you

need enough money to write him a check for him to go away. And I only see one source of that. And that all has to happen at >> simultaneously. Yeah. For her to have a good life. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if she keeps all this debt Yeah.

and keeps this house >> and, >> you know, and and just basically boots him out and she takes all of this as her responsibility, >> that's going to be very difficult today.

>> For sure. For sure. >> It's not And you know, it's just to me it's not worth it. >> I I would want a clean, fresh start after this tragedy that you're going through. >> Yes. And you may still have some left over. from the sale of the home with everything. >> Well, it depends on what we got to pay him. I mean, there's $350,000 worth of equity on >> and paying him onetime fee is what she's hoping like a one time lum. >> So, if you pay off 125k out of 350.

>> Yeah. >> You've got two and a quarter left. If if he goes away for 100, you got 100 and a quarter left. But he's not going to go away for 100 because he's going to want half the house. >> Right. Right. >> So, it's it's a problem.

>> Yeah. And I understand Mary the wanting the stability of the least amount of change possible for the kids, right?

Like I do understand that mindset of as

much as we can keep the same better. But but drives you into a trap.

>> What what I was going to say is >> your role as a mom and a parent is going to help override a lot of that. Like I do think there can be a not a false sense by any means, but an overreaching of a belief of like, okay, but if this stays the same, everything's going to just be a be a little bit better. But I think you as an engaged mom, not a stressed out mom, not a mom that's

panicked all the time because of money, but you have the margin emotionally because you've set yourself up financially for your kids. Like that is as much of a gift than trying to create the same similar >> Well, if the kids stay You're exactly right. If the kids stay in a home that is full of financial stress, >> Yeah. >> it's not a it's not a net positive.

>> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. >> It's a net negative. And that's what we run into all the time is this idea that somehow the home is going to make this whole thing better. >> And it's not. Uh what makes it better is for you to get in a place where you don't have cuz you've been fighting demons for a while. I mean, they're they're coming at you from everywhere.

And so you got you got financial stuff coming at you. You got all this addict stuff. you you all this conflict and anxiety with the husband. I mean, and to have all of that gone, man, it's a breath of fresh air. I'm sorry you're going through this, though. It's horrible.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Carrie is in Denver. Hey, Carrie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> All right. So, about two years ago, I got a settlement from a car injury. Um, and it was for quite a lot of money. It was for $350,000, which is like the most money I've ever seen or ever expected to see in my life.

So, I think I way over complicated it. I felt really weird about putting all of it into the into the brokerage account.

So, I split it up and now I've got like 10 different accounts. And my question is like, should I combine a lot of these? >> What accounts are they?

>> Okay, so I've got a SE IRA, >> a Roth IRA, a traditional IRA, a

brokerage account, two CDs, and a high

yield savings account.

>> That's called diversification. Car,

you do have a lot.

>> They're not all terrible, though.

>> No. Everything's fine. The only thing I would I would probably roll your CDs into the high yield because they're paying about the same and the high yield doesn't have any penalties. But that's a minor that's a minor detail. But um

>> okay, >> overall they're not all different accounts. They're all different um >> methods of uh I mean you've got some retirement things you did which are wise. You've got some short-term things that you did that you may use some of the money like to buy a house or something in five years. That's the brokerage account.

And then you've got some money that's just sitting there liquid, meaning it's not it's not at risk at all. It's just sitting it's not earning anything hardly. And that's the high yield savings and the CDs.

>> I've been listening to your show. It's actually you guys. >> Oh, wow. Okay. Well, there you go. The

people that advised you were geniuses.

I'm just >> pat yourself on the back there, Dave.

>> Those people those people that helped you, they're just smart. I'm just saying. Yeah. >> Yeah. you pro what what I always tell folks to do listen you you you're you mentioned something that's very important this is amount of money I never thought I would see >> it's so what that amounts to is I'm doing something I've never done >> and and so I feel intimidated and inept

which is normal that would be normal to feel that way if you're doing something you've never done before right so

>> um I I would want to go on a a learning

journey uh more than just listening to our YouTube clips or something um to where you begin to say, "Okay, I I felt

that way at first, but now I over the last three years I've learned all these different things and I've had these different experiences with these investments and now I feel very comfortable and competent and that should be that's your big goal is to get the other side of the learning curve on this." And it's not a panic, but I want you to feel confident and I don't want you to ever to where 5 years from now, 3 years from now, you're not saying that anymore, >> which also means you're not going to make any mistakes.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, I would tell you to go to a Smart Veester Pro is what I'm saying. Get go to Ramsey Solutions and click on Smartves Veester. Find a Smart Veester Pro in your area. sit down with them and and have them look over what you've done and um you know and if they

would do anything different or if you want to move the accounts with them that's fine and just begin to learn um

you know what we're doing and where we're going from here.

>> Yeah, it's great. >> It's very >> well done. >> Very smart. >> Y >> it's funny. All right, Lauren is in Ohio. Hey, Lauren. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure.

So, I'm 30 years old. I have been

following the baby steps for a little over six years, probably about seven now. I got out of debt. I have an emergency fund. I was able to pay cash for a car last year and I've

>> Thank you. Thank you so much. Um, I've been ready to start saving up for a house. I'm currently renting, but I've also been in a relationship with someone for eight years. Uh, he's 49 and is not very financially responsible and I think I need some advice on next steps to take.

>> Dang. So, your financial transformation

happened while you've been dating him.

Like you said, you went you did all of this. Okay. >> Yes. >> And meanwhile and meanwhile he did nothing.

>> Pretty much he cleaned up some tax problems that he'd had in the past.

>> Good. He's He's now legal every >> Yes. But he's since financed vehicles

and now he has one working vehicle and one non- workinging vehicle and they're both financed and he's very upside down and >> so exactly what is your question?

>> Uh exactly my question is do I need to

take care of myself by getting out of here or is there something else I can do

to help him, you know, see the light quote unquote? Well, have you guys have you guys talked about it? Had conversations over the last eight years about money >> for many many years. Yeah.

>> And you raised these concerns that it makes you nervous and kind of fearful with his financial patterns. And what does he say?

He basically he either becomes very defensive like I'm I'm doing this and I'm doing that and >> if I just change this one thing this will all go away and or you think I'm so

bad with money and you finances.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I kind of do. Yeah, >> I kind of do. I just don't know where to go from here. Is it is it time to to you

know face the facts or >> I mean a question I always like to ask Lauren is do you look at him and think >> what a winner >> he is.

>> Do you? >> Yeah. Yeah. There's no there's there's that. Yeah. That's in there. That's uh >> Do you want to be married to that? You don't you don't respect him, do you?

>> You don't respect him. >> No, I don't. >> I don't at all. >> Oh. >> It's not a matter of whether he's holding you back. It's a matter of what do you want to spend your life with?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I'll say this, Lauren, to me, it's not about the money, you know, a certain amount of money that he's worth or whatever. It's the values and the patterns at which he lives his life. And when those are in conflict with how the value system at which you live your life, that's a really hard marriage to be a team and to enjoy life together.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, >> you're you're going to make him miserable.

You're going to make him miserable >> and he's no and he's going to make you miserable. But I mean, you need to understand that, you know, just just standing beside him makes him the reflection is not good. You know, I mean, it's >> um that's the truth. I mean, you your your very presence reveals his deficits.

Uh and so >> I often feel like his mother rather than than his >> brother. Yep. Yep. Well, because you

sound like the responsible one, the one that lives in reality. You know what I mean? >> Well, I I think you've already made your call before you called here, haven't you? >> I might have. Yep.

>> I'm sorry, Lauren. That's hard. I mean,

that's a Yeah.

>> Do you guys live together? Are you guys going to have to like separate? Okay. Yeah. So, it's going to be a big Yeah, this is a big a big breaking for sure.

>> Absolutely. >> And here's the other thing. Um, it's been eight years

And this is not and it has been discussed over and over and over and over. >> He's not going to change.

>> That's what I was afraid you'd say.

>> So when you when you announce this and he says, "Oh, I'll change." He means it, but he still won't.

>> But he still won't. Yeah.

>> Do you think I mean the p the pattern is ingrained? >> I just know. >> Yeah. >> Well, Annie's a 50year-old man. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm like, it's not like you guys are both 24 year olds. And he's like trying to figure out the world. I'm like, dude, >> you got like 12 years on on me and my

husband. I don't know. Pardon me. He's like, you're 50 years old.

>> I tell you what I would do is I would pick up the book Necessary Endings

>> by Dr. Henry Cloud. I think >> it will uh inform your intellect and soothe your emotions.

>> Okay. as you as you decide as you decide to walk through this >> because it's a it's we're doing an emotional thing with an intellectual discussion >> and that's that's a hard you know and then when you get into it it's going to be emotional >> and um >> absolutely >> because you're not a psychopath so and you like him you love him you don't want to hurt him >> you're you're not a mean person we're not trying to bully someone or gaslight them or something like that it's just you're you're just going this is just not going to end well I don't want to be sitting here 40 years from Mhm.

>> That's what you're saying.

don't respect him. And it's hard to it's hard to do >> in in-depth close relationships with anyone you don't respect. >> And the and his response to you pushing a little bit of conflict when it goes defensive and you start getting blamed.

Yeah. >> That's going to be your relationship, not just with money, but other things, right? That's the the value system and the paradigm he he lives in. Mhm.

>> And yeah, you don't want a partner like that, you know.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. These are new trainings every month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities. Rachel, when are you doing the next one? >> Uh, next week. Okay.

>> I think maybe Wednesday. >> Coming up soon. >> I did one this week. Yeah, they're great. They're really >> We're showing you how to stick to a budget and you find thousands of dollars of margin.

>> Everybody that goes through it, we show you here, you can do this, this, this, and this. We give you a list of things.

It's always thousands of dollars of things you can do to start turning the corner. And so ask any question during the live Q&A. George was saying yesterday that the live Q&A is excellent. >> Oh yeah. Well, it's fun. It's like this show. I mean, you get to Yeah. People jump on >> except you can actually get through. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're there.

>> So, sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.

Free every dollar trainings. Free. Did I

mention they're free? Chance is in Sacramento. Hi, Chance. What's up?

>> Hey, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help >> man? This is cool. Uh so, um I'm

actually calling about uh I'm calling on behalf of my mom.

Um I'm a small business owner. She works

for me. Um there she's getting she's 62 and she was

having a little bit of a tough time getting laid off at different jobs she was working at. So uh now she just works for me and it's pretty, you know, low stress. But I'm just concerned about,

you know, what I can do as a son to help her out with her future retirement and

kind of where she's at right now. Um, I have a list of, you know, some of the different amounts that she currently has whenever you're ready. >> Okay. Um, what do you make? What's your income?

>> So, uh, I I bring home 83,000, but take

home's about 73. >> And that's on this business.

>> On the business? Yeah. >> Okay. And what what are you paying her?

>> Um, 45,000.

Okay. >> Makes 22 40 hours.

>> Okay. All right. You were getting ready to say something on the 83. You make profit in addition to that.

>> Uh yeah, that's just my salary.

>> Okay. So, what's the what's the business make? What's your profit that you get paid that you can pay taxes on?

>> Oh, these are this is good. I'm getting in I'm getting a lot better at this. So,

uh last year was 1.5 to 1.4 four and we

made a profit of about 100,000.

>> Good. >> This year we're going to do >> You made a profit of 100,000 after you paid yourself 83.

>> Correct. >> So you made $183,000 personal income.

>> Correct. >> Because you own 100% of the business, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. That gives me tells me what you've got to work with to try to help her other than the 45. Okay. So what does

she have? Does she have any money saved?

>> Yes. Uh so currently there's um $97,000

in an annuity, an indexed annuity that's

going to mature next year.

>> Good. >> Uh and 91,000 in a individual brokerage account.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh 57,000 in a traditional IRA.

>> Mhm. >> And almost $7,000 in a Roth IRA.

>> Good. Good. Okay. What I would do is take her and sit down with a Smart Investor Pro in your area, a broker that we recommend, and help them develop a plan to get all of this money working together. She's got about almost $300,000 there. Um 250 anyway, and uh

get that all working for her, keeping her hands off of it. Let her build a sustainable budget on the 45. Um, and if

she just leaves it alone and keeps working in 7 years it will double.

>> So it'll be instead of 250 it'll be 500.

>> Man, that's that's good news. >> Yeah. >> Um, that that seems a little bit better than the amount I was looking at.

>> Yeah, cuz this is a little slim. It's not enough, but she's only 62.

>> So, I mean, she can work as long as long as she can keep working and you can keep paying her. Um and then of course you

know do you have many how many employees do you have?

>> Um so we have eight guys in the field and three of us are management with my mom being one of the managers.

>> Okay. All right. Well I mean if you can find uh if if you wanted to start you

can talk to the Smart Master Pro about that too. What's called a simple 401k

um or simple IRA. It's a 401k for small businesses. Costs nothing to get it started, but you do have to match up to 3% what people put in, but she could continue to put money in that and you can match her then. Um, and you, you know, you can help her that way and help her fund her Roth IAS every year in addition to having this money invested well. So, there's some things you can do here. >> Yeah. Did she have >> because you're making some money?

>> Yeah. chance did she have a age that she was wanting to retire and you guys were trying to figure out if she was able to or is she great to work for longer to get this built up?

>> No, my my family dynamic is kind of um

you know my my dad had an injury a long time ago, so he's not in the picture.

Um, and my mom is kind of not looking at

me for but like I just I want to be a

good guidance for her. So she >> I'm looking at her to work to 72.

>> Yeah. She's ready to work for as long as she'd like to. And even if she's not, I'm still going to pay her, you know, or take care of her, do what I need to do.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, be careful about

that part of this. Let's let's develop a plan that has the dignity of sustainability on her own where she doesn't have to be. >> Is she going to be a problem in the workplace for 10 years considering she's gotten laid off so many times or is it she is she do good? She's good in her role and everything. >> Well, my my my sister passed away and it

after that she >> she left work for a while and then when she came back all of the you know the

other admin ladies were younger, faster and >> I gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yep. Now that makes sense. >> I got you. >> And we don't have any property in in our family. Like she doesn't own a home. She's renting right now.

>> And the rent is a little bit higher than I mean it's like 1,400 bucks. >> Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah.

>> So I think you sit down, develop a plan with a good smart vest pro and that will tell you what you're going to do and and also will inform her. I think she's working a while. Um, and and I think I

think that, you know, I think it's good.

I don't think that's bad. There's nothing wrong with that. Uh, I'm getting ready to turn 65. I plan on working and not cuz I have to, but cuz I enjoy it.

And so, uh, this is what I do and I

don't really have anything else I want to do. So, that's perfect. So, um, you know, uh, she's got that same situation.

She gets to work with her son who's got who who's loving her and taking care of her and so forth. And so, she can stay right there and earn an income.

meanwhile continually putting some money in. Meanwhile, investing this current money that she has better than it's invested now so that it'll produce more because it's not, you know, it's probably not doing that well right now.

So, you do need to reorganize the money that she has. And that's why I'm sending you to a Smart Ver Pro to help you figure every bit of that out. Virginia's in Pennsylvania. Hi, Virginia. How are you? >> Fine, thanks. I'm a new listener.

>> Okay. How can we help? Well, my question is, is it make financial sense for me to

continue to be the co-owner on my 33-year-old unmarried son's financial

accounts? >> No. >> I opened these up for him when he was an infant. >> Yeah. >> So, >> no, this is like a man and he doesn't

need his mommy on his account.

>> I'm trying really, not that he's irresponsible, but I'm really trying hard. >> He's 33. If he's irresponsible, it's his problem. >> He doesn't make a lot of money. >> I don't care. >> So, >> okay. >> No, I mean, really, you you cannot carry a 33y old around and change his diaper, honey. I mean,

>> I don't I was always told there should be a co-owner on on bank accounts.

>> I'm sorry, say that again.

>> I was always told there should be a co-owner on >> Who told you that?

>> My parents. >> Oh, okay. That's shocking.

Okay. No. Uh, let me just tell you, Rachel's sitting beside me. She's my daughter. Um, she's in her 30s. The number of bank accounts of hers that I'm on is precisely zero.

>> Not Not even close.

>> It's hard to let go. Virginia, that's a good boundary. >> It's a good boundary. >> He needs to fly and be free. And if he makes mistakes, he's going to have to learn it as a man. >> Goody.

>> I'm glad you're a first- time listener, though. Glad you're here.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

If you like the show, thank you. We

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We appreciate it. Brianna is in Tex Arcana, Texas. Hey, Brianna. What's up?

>> Or Briana? Is it Briana or Brianna?

>> I go by either, but it's Brianna.

>> Brianna. Okay.

>> How are y'all today? >> Good. How can we help?

Um, I was giving y'all a call. We're kind of in a pickle. Um, we're currently

renting and our landlord is selling the house. It is 30 days to um, move out.

>> Okay. >> So, we've got a couple of um, options.

I'm in touch with contractors in the

area because I work with them. We looked and saw a house yesterday that was 1,300

a month um, >> for rent, >> which is Yes. Okay. What are you paying now? >> $1,150. >> Okay, cool. That's good. All right.

>> Okay. Um, we do have some debts right now. We have um we have two cars that we

are paying down a lot on and a Discover

card. So, to total in debt about 25,000.

>> Okay. >> So, I've got two options. I can either um start paying a little bit more in rent um and you know push our we want to eventually build a house >> or um we can my sister told me we could

go ahead and get a c loan out a camper

and live on her property so we can rat

hole a lot of money for a down payment on a house and start building.

>> Take a loan and buy a camper.

Well, take Yeah, I know. Take a loan out

for a camper. >> Yeah, I got it. You just said that out loud.

>> Yeah.

Well, you Yeah, I know.

>> Oh, no. Yeah. So, no, we're not going to

finance something that's going down in value while we're trying to get out of debt to save up money to buy a house.

It's working against you. You're swimming upstream.

Not only is it going down in value, but you're paying interest for it to go down in value, >> right? >> Oh, and by the way, you're living in a camper. There's that, too.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd go rent that $1,300 house in about the next 30 minutes before it gets away.

>> It's okay. >> What's your hesitation, Brienne? I'm just curious. Is it that >> I guess it's just >> you feel like you're throwing money away renting?

>> Yeah. In a sense. Yeah.

>> Okay. The two What do you guys owe on the two cars?

>> Um I owe 17 on one and then 4,600 on the

other. >> Okay. >> What do you guys What's your household? >> What do you What do you make?

>> Uh we're Last year we did 125.

>> Okay. >> Oh, that's great. >> So you should be able to clean this up in a year. You beat debt that free in a year.

>> Yeah. And also >> No, no, no, no, wait a minute. No, you didn't. You said that like you didn't believe it. I believe it. You made 125,000. You only owe 25,000. Your rent's only 1300. You should be debtree in a year. You're not on a detailed budget. Y'all are still going out to eat and partying.

>> Yeah, we started doing the Every Dollar app as well >> last week,

>> right? You're just getting started, kiddo. Hey, listen. Don't don't worry about the Every Dollar app, but if you were organized, think about this. If you make 125 and you pay off 25, that means

you have to live on $100,000. Oh my.

>> Yeah, >> you could do that.

>> Okay. >> Your cars are not out of control.

They're They're not good. I want you to get them paid off. The 17,000 one is concerning, but you make good money.

>> Yeah. What do y'all bring home every month? Do you know after tax? What hits your bank account every month for income? >> Every month. Let me think. I'm easily

1,700 every two weeks and he's at like 1,500 every two weeks.

>> 6,400. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Something's wrong. You guys got a big tax refund, didn't you?

>> Um, well, not two. It was about 2,000.

>> Okay. And And how much is coming out for 401ks?

>> Um, 6% out of mine. So 10 and Yeah. So

stop that. >> Yeah. And that pays for the the the difference of the rent. >> We do have and we do have um a an

18-month-old, but she's in daycare.

>> Yeah. But that's that's not that's not causing you to be broke. You're making plenty of money.

Okay. So here's the thing. Here's what I want you to do. You're in talking to you for a few minutes. you are uh you make

too much money and you're too smart to

be this broke.

Okay? Cuz if I run into somebody that's either dumb or they don't make enough money, I can't fix the dumb, but I can help I can help if they don't make enough money. You're not either one.

You're smart enough to do this and you are not and you make plenty of money. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to pretend like I hired you for $130,000

a year to take over Bana's budget and

make it behave. Make every one of those dollars scream like it was your job and if you didn't do your job, you were going to get fired.

>> Okay? >> And that's the every dollar budget. I'm going to take every one of those dollars that's coming in. I'm going to stop the 401k temporarily. Um, I'm gonna adjust

my take-home pay by another 200 bucks a month so that you don't get a tax refund. And that's the $2,000 because a tax refund means you gave Washington too much money and then they gave it back to you in April. Santa Claus does not live in DC. >> That was your money you got back. And so

you lay all of that out and you you make those adjustments and then you take the money that's coming in, which is now about $7,000 a month. You pay 1,300 out of it. You buy some food. You buy some daycare. You put put the electric bill on there and then you got some money to attack this and you run the ringer on this debt, kiddo. And don't be talking about living in a camper. You make $140,000 a year. Let's get this done.

>> Okay, >> you can do this. >> We have paid off. We have paid off a lot. Like easily 20,000 this past year.

>> Good. Okay, that's great. >> If you did it one more year plus a If you did it one more year plus a little, you're done. Because the cars we originally started with 1,600 on it with

16,000 on my Highlander and 9,000 on his

car and we've paid it. >> That's great. Brandon, what's the Discover? Hey, what's the Discover card?

How much do you guys owe on that?

>> 18,000. >> 18,000. >> Okay. Have is that is that cut up?

>> Oh, yeah. It's gone.

>> Okay. Good. All right. So, you disco you discovered freedom. Good. I'm glad.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Hey, get on that every dollar budget. Uh, we're going to put you in with Kelly. She's going to give you the upgrade where it connects to your bank and you can drag and drop everything automatically and it it's going to you're going to it's going to change everything. It's going to show you exactly how to walk these baby steps.

And I want you to step on this money like it was your job.

>> Yeah. Get the $2,600 car paid off this month. >> Yeah. >> Find $2,600 out of that budget and do it like extreme stuff. And this is extreme like the grocery budget, your shopping.

>> Yeah. inexpensive >> eating out and no vacations and no campers.

>> No campers.

That's No, no, no. That's going to set you back. It's going to cost you a year and a half to two years in this. Don't do that. No, your sister's sweet. She's just not smart. Don't do this. No. She was generous to let you live there. I shouldn't say that, but but that that was nice. But no, if it led to if her

suggesting financing a camper, then I'm not going to No, that's dumb. Don't do that. Don't do that. Go get that other house.

You're going to be there two years because it's going to take a year to get out of debt, build your emergency fund, then you got to build a down payment. You might be there three, >> but that's it. After that, you're going to buy a house. >> Yep.

>> And then you're going to move on and become wealthy.

>> So, you're heading out. You're doing good stuff. Keep it up. Keep it up. Keep it up. We're here to help you and we're going to hold you accountable. Hang on. Kelly's going to pick up. will get you tied into that every dollar app.

It's interesting.

That's interesting.

I I mean >> the camper. What's interesting? >> Yeah. I just I'm trying to think what what mindset >> Well, because it feels like rent.

I could see it. I could that it feels like you're throwing money away and at least you have an asset, but understanding that the asset ends up sometimes being underwater. It's like a car. like you borrow at the high end and when you try to sell it it's not you can't even recoup it.

So >> it's just yeah more details and research in it Brianna but >> good luck to you guys. >> Good question.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Amanda is in Wisconsin. Hi, Amanda. How are you?

Um, doing great. Dave, thank you for taking my call. And um, Rachel, it's awesome to speak with you as well.

>> Oh, well, we're glad you called, Amanda.

>> Happy to talk. >> Um, thank you. Um, currently my husband

and I um, with our four children, we are on baby step number three. And, uh,

we've currently paid off about $125,000.

>> Oh my gosh. Congratulations.

Yeah, it was um it's been a lot of work, but um right now that we have more

wiggle room in the budget, we're struggling with momentum of trying to get that full on emergency fund filled up. Um, and uh, part of it has to do with we had a couple of emergencies this past year that weren't life-threatening, but they are big financial burdens that we are um, struggling to throw that

money at it to save up to that large amount versus when we were paying down our debt, you know, it was easy, you know, throwing like, you know, 3500, you know, at a things at a a time per month.

um and watching that steadily go down, but we're just we're kind of struggling with the momentum of um needing to get that emergency fund up so we can keep going forward.

>> How much do you guys have in the account now?

>> Um 6,000.

>> Okay. And your ideal number that you guys are shooting for?

>> 30,000. >> 30. Okay. >> That's 3 to six months of expenses.

>> Um no, that's just at least like a couple of months right now. Um, >> no, I'm saying 30,000 is three to six months of expenses. What's your household income?

>> Um, last year we had 110,000.

>> Okay. All right. Okay. It's pretty hefty. Uh, you may have a That may be part of the problem. You may have such a big goal you can't see getting there.

And you're throwing how much at it a month to build it or how much can you throw? Uh, >> right now uh right now we're throwing about 500 a month.

>> You didn't get out of debt at that speed.

No, we didn't. It's And that's where >> What were you throwing at it? What were you throwing at the dad a month?

>> Oh gosh. Like a couple thousand. Um.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. At least.

>> Listen, baby steps one through three >> are gazelle intensity. Like your hair is on fire, scorched earth, no eating out, no relaxing, total focus, zero

lifestyle, no vacations till you get that emergency fund bill. So, it's $2,000 a month going in there, which is a 15-month schedule from the beginning, but you're 6,000 in. And so, it's a 12-mon schedule for you to get there.

>> But you've got to I mean, you got to lay it out and look at it like that. What happened was is y'all got out of debt and relaxed.

>> Yeah. Guilty.

>> You didn't you didn't keep your intensity through this. Once you get the baby steps done, baby step three done, then you can relax and start 15. be intentional instead of intense. Put 15% of your income into retirement and start towards the kids' college and those kinds of things. But >> yeah, what does it take a month to run your household, Amanda?

>> Let's see. It takes about 3,700

and change. >> Okay. So, let's call that four grand.

So, 3 months is 12, 24 is 6 months. So,

I don't know if you need 30 or not.

Yeah, you could go. Yeah, you could lower that. >> You could call it 20 for now >> and just go get it finished. That's 14.

That's seven months at $2,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That probably feels more doable.

>> Yeah. At at $500 a month, you're going to get there in about 18 years. No, you can't. No wonder you lost momentum.

>> Yeah. I we last year um one of our

vehicles that we had paid off um the motor um decided to die and after

crunching it it's just cheaper to put a new motor in which is going to be about 10 grand. Um we have a second vehicle that again everything's paid off um that we're using but it would be good to have the actual truck back on the road. Um, and then we had a huge flood and the furnace died. So, we're heating our house with a plet stove, but um, we need a new furnace, which is like another 10,000. And I think that's probably where that like 30,000 came from.

>> Yeah. You feel overwhelmed for sure.

>> Yeah, you got to take care of those things. So, you may want to go with a used motor uh from a junkyard into the truck rather than a new one.

>> Yeah, it's it um we've been to like multiple mechanics. It's one of those situations where it's a known issue with the vehicle like around the 100 thou 180,000 mile mark. Um didn't know that when we bought her, but um you know uh even even if it's a used or refurbished motor, it's still around like the lowest was like 8,000. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. But I mean yeah, you're going to have to clear those and plow through this. Thank god you're out of debt.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, it's saying, okay, thank God. Okay. With the same intensity that you used to get out of debt and thank God I was out of debt because if I wasn't, I'd be really screwed right now >> with all those payments going on.

>> That's Well, and the hard thing is too, I think we can kind of all live a little bit in a fantasy world that life's trajectory is just straight up and it's not. It goes up and down. You know, the trajectory is going up, but there's going to be ups and down seasons. Like we've talked to many people that they were on, you know, baby step three and almost complete and then something happens and they got to drain it and build it back up.

I mean, that that is life. But the encouraging thing is, I mean, that you guys have a plan. Number one, you know what you're doing. And just take it one bite at a time.

just do one thing at a time and and look

at the numbers of it to know, okay, if we really sacrifice and keep at it, we can put 2,000 away a month, 1,500 away a

month, and you just start building on that. And then also, you think about too your jobs, you know, getting raises like things happen too with income throughout this process. >> The good news is the other side of it, and the other side of it looks like this. When you don't have any payments, the truck is fixed and the furnace is fixed and you got $20,000 in the bank, it's going to be the weirdest thing. Here's the weirdest thing that happens.

What is defined as an emergency changes

because when you're broke, a a $30 item is an emergency.

When you're when you're doing really well and you got margin in your budget, a $1,000 item is not an emergency

because you just put it in the budget.

So, uh, and and even later on, it gets to where a $10,000 item is not an emergency as you build some wealth and you just don't end up using the emergency fund because, uh, you know, you starting to get margin in your life.

And by the way, you're moving up in a little bit better cars so they're not breaking all the freaking time and you're staying ahead of the maintenance stuff on stuff so it doesn't break on you and uh you get more life out of

things because you keep up with it, all that. So, uh, the good news, and that's I'm talking three years from now for you, Amanda. They're not today. Today, you've got another year of of really tough. Roll up your sleeves. You got a year of tough. And, uh, you're not done.

You're not done. You got to get through this. And then, but that's the only way to get through it is to get is to bust through it. And, as you said, to regain your momentum. There's not a magic thing, but when you set a clear goal and you believe it's reachable, it gives you energy. When it's a vague series of

things attacking me that I don't know how I'm going to handle, it steals your energy. So, break it down step by step.

Here's what we're going to do first. Here's what we're going to do second. Here's what we're going to do third. And we're going to crank it up again. No lifestyle, no nothing till we get this mess cleaned up.

[Music]

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[Music]

Amy's in Minnesota. Hi Amy. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I wanted to call and ask about my

company credit card. Um, my husband and I have worked really hard to pay off all of our debt and we have our emergency

fund saved and we've been also saving to

buy our first house sometime in this year. We went to our local credit union to get approved and we did get approved for a loan, but the person that we spoke with there um asked me about a $17,000

debt that was showing on my credit report and I realized it was for my company issued credit card. I'm a secretary at an accounting firm and I was given this card when I first started working here and I use it to book travel for employees, order office supplies, pay different company bills, but it never occurred to me that it would show on my personal report. So, >> is it an American Express?

>> Um, no. >> Good. Okay. Um, because theirs are going

to show on your report and they're going to try to hold you liable. So, I would go to your supervisor and tell them you need this canceled immediately.

>> Okay. >> This is ridiculous. It should not be on your report. You did you signed for to be liable for this company?

>> No. And from what I was reading, you know, we're a smaller company, so I'm like listed as an authorized user.

>> Authorized user should not is not liable for the bill.

>> Yeah. So that's why >> So it shouldn't show up on the credit bureau, but your bank is a hu. So your

your boss's bank is a hustster, so you need to get away from this.

>> Okay. I was Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was getting the right information from the credit card or from the credit union person we talked to about the loan. Um >> Well, if it shows up on your credit bureau, it's not something they've taken your social security number and put you on the account somehow.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm an authorized user. I know authorized user is not liable, >> but that doesn't should not be reported.

Sometimes they do that though.

>> And so, um, yeah, you got to be really, really careful. And so, I would just tell your boss just to, you know, to to shut it down. Shut down the account or shut your name down off the account. I don't want to be on the account at all in any way. If you want me to book your travel and stuff, you're going to have to give me your card to do it. I'm not put I'm not putting my name on it.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, well, I will do that. I

appreciate I don't want to be liable for it and I don't want it reported on my credit bureau. >> Yeah, >> I worked hard to get out of debt. Now I got a $17,000 debt that's yours on my credit report. >> That's what parents are starting to do with their kids, putting their kids as authorized user so that it builds their credit.

Y >> which is that same whole >> it's the same crap and it's not supposed to show up. >> Yeah. >> It's not legal but they do it all the time.

What is reported on your credit bureau report is what you owe.

When you're an authorized user, you don't owe anything.

>> Your name is attached >> could not be on this. >> It's just that her name's attached to an account that does owe. >> Yeah, exactly. But it's the same thing as the kids.

It's exactly why she's getting this. She's probably not liable on this account. >> They probably haven't screwed it up. But the best thing to do is just to get it out of her name completely and then you don't have to worry about it.

>> That's right. >> It's not going to show up anymore. >> God, how how crazy is that that you're like, "We're out of debt, all this." And then you go to your credit union and you're like, "I'm sorry. >> You got $17,000." >> What?

But >> y >> and he acts like she owes the money. See how that happened? >> Yeah. >> See how that looks? >> That's the purpose of a credit bureau report. But it's false.

>> Right. Right. >> You know, it's like h these companies, man.

Snakes. Kathleen is in Kansas. Hi, Kathleen. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. So, pretty straightforward question. My boyfriend and I are going to be buying a house together. And my question is, should I keep the town home that I currently own and rent it out for extra income or should I sell it, take the profit, and stick it in investments?

>> Kathleen, you're not going to like me.

You're going to ask why we're not married. >> No, I'm going to tell I'm going to tell >> maybe that too. >> Well, that might come up in a minute, but we're going to start with the idea that buying a home with someone that you're not married to is financial freaking suicide. Do not do that.

>> Okay?

>> One of you decides to leave, you can't get off the mortgage. >> There's no protection. one of you gets disabled, >> you can't get off the mortgage. If he dies and he doesn't have a will. If he dies and he doesn't have a will, you own a townhouse with his mother.

Yeah. It's a bad idea. It's a bad idea.

Okay. This is these are the people that call us later. Yes. After they do the thing you're going to do and then they call us going, "Dave, I'm so screwed.

What am I going to do now? Please don't do that." or the boyfriend leaves and doesn't and stops paying. >> He just disappears. >> And then you're on the hook for the whole thing or you're going to get foreclosed on or you know what I mean?

Like it's just it's not not good.

>> No, no, no, no. Do not do this. Now then

then and then if you were married and you did and you did buy it together, that would be okay, obviously. Uh so if you're going to do this, you got to get married. Um

uh so I'm I'm really meddling now. But the uh but then if you're going to do this, you'd have to keep debt on one or the other in order to keep the old place. And I wouldn't do that. I'd sell the old place. >> Okay? >> But don't sell the old place and buy this with your boyfriend.

>> You're going to do it anyway. She is. She >> You're going to do it anyway. You're how I stay in business.

>> You're just going to keep coming back.

She's going to do it anyway. Everyone listening knows it. Oh, bless your heart, darling. I'm so sorry. Please don't do this. Please. We love you. We don't want this for >> here, Kathleen. If it goes, >> it's not a prosperity plan. It's a poor person plan. You're going to be poor people. Don't do this. Don't do this.

Please don't do this. It's not a matter of romance. It's a matter of stupidity.

Tim is in Utah. Hey, Tim. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Um, quick question. So, my wife and I, we're self-employed. We own a business. Um, and um, we currently own

a house in Utah that we bought in May of 2022. Long story short, our houses dropped in value like $85,000.

>> Why? >> So, the market just dropped. We bought the week before interest rates started going up and so then interest rates went up and we have in Utah

>> just south of Salt Lake.

>> Bull Salt Lake is a boom town. It's exploding in price. It's almost unbearably expensive.

>> Our whole It is. It's still expensive.

Our house was expensive, but our value the value has gone down quite a bit >> since when we since we bought.

>> I'm sorry. I don't believe you. I think you've got bad information.

>> I I Who gave you who gave you the comps?

>> Who gave you the comps?

>> Um, our real works for uh

>> your real estate agent came out and looked at the house and said the house that you bought in 21 is worth $85,000 less in Salt Lake City.

Yeah. And we have friends that just sold under contract and their house is under value. Yeah. Yep.

So here here's my question though. So we

are we don't have any other debt. Like we're pretty smart financially, but we don't like how much our mortgage is. And the other aspect is we travel to the East Coast for work six or seven times a year. Um, and so we're looking at buying a house in the East Coast by some friends and we'd be able to lower our mortgage payment about 1,200 bucks a month. >> Six or seven times a year.

>> Yeah. >> For how long at a time? How long at a time? >> Um, about a week at a time.

>> So for seven weeks? >> So six weeks out of 52.

>> That doesn't that doesn't determine your doicile.

Well, no, but if we moved to where we're

looking at, our mortgage payment would also be $1,200 a month. But you never live there? >> No, but you're moving there full-time. You're saying? >> No, no, no. We're talking about selling our house in Utah and moving >> and moving to the east coast. >> The whole year. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> So, what's the six or seven times got to do with it?

>> Well, that's just the reason why they're moving. >> Don't likes traveling as much. >> He just they want to live on the main reason. >> So, are you working in Salt Lake City while you live on the East Coast?

We own a company and my we work remote

so we can work anywhere.

So my my question was though for us to

move to sell our house we'd owe our mortgage company a little bit and then moving costs and closing costs and everything. It would cost us probably about $40,000 which we have in the bank

to move. Um and it only save us about

$1,200 a month in payment and mortgage payment. >> It doesn't make any sense at all. So, we're trying to decide. >> No, doesn't make any sense at all. >> We're trying to decide. Should we just take that 40 grand then to put it towards our house? That's the only debt we have. >> Yeah. I would just sit there and let the thing come back in value. You got no reason to move.

You don't You don't have a reason to move. Um, you're only over there six times a year. You can get a hotel six times a year or nothing. I mean, it's nothing compared. >> So, wait till the house gets >> You're spending You're going to go $85,000 and $40,000 to move. So this

$120,000 swing you'll never recoup.

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[Music]

Salt Lake City is the 10th hottest real estate market in 2025 in the US. It's up

9% year-over-year

in prices and it is 35%

higher than the national average on median house prices. >> Okay, this is such >> just to make sure. >> Just a classic Ramsay move.

>> Just the No, I'm too I'm serious. This is >> I am too. This is exactly what happens when we debate at dinner as a family.

We're always pulling up Google to prove our point. >> Well, I mean, it wasn't like I made this up. That was my point. So, >> I know. I know. But you proved it.

>> I did. >> Proved it. >> I did. Locked that down.

>> Christiey's in Indiana. Hey, Christie.

What's up?

>> Hey.

So, my a lot's happened over the past

year with my family. Amy, my husband has been married for about 14 years and we're deciding to um move because of his

job from Indiana to DC and we're

deciding to consolidate my mother's house also and move her in with us. She

owns her house outright.

Um we still carry a mortgage, but I'm just trying to figure out how to

protect her money in this whole process

if something were to happen.

divorce, death, what may. I just have no clue how to walk into joining our

household and making that happen.

>> Why are you?

>> Um, I'm the only child that looks out

for her. So, her husband had a stroke a year ago. He's in a facility. He's he's like a three-year-old in a grown man's body. >> Um, she lived with my 92-year-old

grandma who passed away about two weeks

ago. >> Oh, I'm sorry. So there is >> there's just no one here.

>> How old is your mom?

>> Um 72.

>> Okay. So why does she need care at 72?

>> Um she just doesn't get around good.

She uses a walker. Probably could use a wheelchair at this point. Um

she was looking into a town home here and >> unlike Makes sense if you got a wheelchair in the future with a walker.

>> Yes, I know. I know. And you know there's you know there's some family close and I said if she needed help would you help her? You know right now she lives on an acre. She has a like a

seven or eight bedroom house. It's just too much. So we've been >> I don't doubt that. But I I don't What I'm trying to figure out is why she's moving in with you.

>> Cuz I have a conscience.

>> No, that's not the point. She doesn't even need you. I mean >> she's she's only 72.

But she doesn't sound like she's in great health. >> Yeah, she's not. She does need us. She does need us. >> All right. All right.

>> I guess I don't know why she panics, you know, even she had help with her

husband. And >> how many brothers and sisters do you have?

>> Um, I have one sister. My brother I have a brother also, but we haven't seen him in in >> Okay. So, how what's the house she's going to sell? what how much money is she going to put into this deal?

>> Um, probably maybe 700,000. And I have

some other cash things that were moved around, annuities and stuff. Um, we had hired prior to all of this going down, we had hired a estate lawyer when her husband had a stroke. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And they moved some of her money around so that she wouldn't lose it.

>> What would she Why would she lose it?

um applying for Medicaid. They

>> she put him in a welfare nursing home and she has $700,000.

>> Well, no, that's that's going to be what we're going to get from the house cuz she owns the house outright and that's something they said that the government wouldn't take with >> I know, but this is Medicaid. This is Medicaid is welfare.

>> She put him in a welfare nursing home.

>> Wow. And she had the money to not do that. No, we used all of our cash assets

initially and he was not in there for about a year. >> Okay. So, she's broke other than the house. >> Yes. >> Okay. Does she have any income?

>> Other than what she gets from social security now. >> Okay. What's your house going is you're talking this what's this proposed purchase going to cost?

>> Um we we actually made a offer on a

house.

um for a little over a million. >> Okay. You need to see an estate planning attorney and the house would be purchased in an LLC.

>> Mhm. >> And um she owns a portion of the LLC and

you own a portion of the LLC.

Okay. And then here's the tricky part.

You have to do a bunch of legal work to

determine what happens to her portion of

the LLC upon disability or death

or if you guys just want to sell

because otherwise you're going to get trapped and your siblings are going to be pissed and your brother will just reappear at the most inopportune moment

>> looking looking for his part of the 700k. Okay, that is called your house.

>> This is really messy.

>> It's going to be very difficult to do this well and it not end poorly.

>> That's why I was asking all these questions about her care. Okay. Um it'd

be one thing if she just moved in with you and you took care of her, but when you put her money in this house, she's now your partner. She's 72 and she's in ill health and she dies. Are is that going to force the sale of the house that you live in in order to give your sister her part of the inheritance?

>> Are you going to save the money to buy her out? >> Yeah. You got to have 350,000 or is it going to be 350,000 plus what? The house has gone up in value. So now the house is worth 2 million and your mother's share is now worth 1.4 million.

>> Mhm. >> And that means you owe your sister 700,000.

This is not going to go well if y'all aren't real careful.

She was planning on giving the whole portion to us. Her initial offer.

>> How's your sister feel about that?

>> Um, she doesn't >> want to take care help her out.

>> She doesn't want to help her out. 700 grand worth.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. This isn't going to go well.

>> Okay. You guys are, you know, you haven't thought this all the way through. And so it can be done, but

you're going to have to lay out every possible negative scenario and have in writing in the LLC documentation what's going to occur.

>> Your mother gets dementia. Your sister says that you are signing checks illegally for her. Who's got healthc care power of attorney? What happens in the event of death? At what point do you have to liquidate to pay your sister out? What does the will say about your mother's portion of the LLC? cuz she owns over 50% of the house you live in.

And that that that tail is going to wag that dog.

You following all this?

>> Yes. >> It's messy. That's why I was begging

trying to figure out a way not do it. And I and I wasn't being in compassion.

I was lacking in compassion. >> Are you married, Christy, with kids and stuff?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. So here here would be a question for me cuz this is sort of what she did.

She the house she lives in now, my grandma did the same exact thing.

>> Sold her house, built on to my mom's. Um

and they didn't have any paperwork.

>> So >> yeah, but you didn't have any you didn't have any heirs that questioned it.

Well, you know, she did just pass away two weeks ago, but they they knew that that was sort of like the the cost of taking care of my grandma and letting her live there. >> Does your mother have any siblings?

>> Yes. >> And that was your grandmother's house that just died? >> Uh, not technically, no.

>> Uh, whose name is it in?

>> My mother's. >> You sure? Yes, cuz she built it in 1974.

Okay. >> They just remodeled it. >> Well, if your mother puts all of this money in this house and this house is in your name 100%, you've duplicated that family mess. But yeah, it it'll that'll work. It'll keep your sister out of it.

But I think your sister's probably never going to speak to you again when this is over cuz you took $700,000 to care for an elderly lady for a few years. It's pretty heavy pay. A lot different than the Medicaid nursing home she put her husband in.

So, man, this is messy. Your sister's

going to be pissed. I can see it coming a mile away. I'm going to get a call from her. That's what's coming next.

Y'all got to work this through and everybody's got to talk about it and it's got to be documented and you need some legal advice that's a lot better than I could give you cuz all I can tell you is it's going to be a dead gum mess.

[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Alexandria in Texas. I'm currently going through a divorce and recently found out that my husband has taken out credit cards in our children's name. He racked up significant amount of debt and emptied his retirement account to pay it off. He keeps telling me it's not possible to pull credit reports on our kids, but I don't believe that that's true because now he wants me to sign paperwork that absolves him from any wrongdoing regarding our kids.

No good.

Not happening. [Laughter] Your husband is scum.

Anybody that would screw his own kids over is scum. I mean, who takes out?

That's just absolutely the I mean, to

start with, identity theft is illegal.

It's criminal fraud. Okay. So, your husband is a criminal. Oh, and who'd he steal from? His children. What a jerk.

No, I am not signing any paperwork except paperwork puts him in jail.

That's that's the paperwork we're signing on him. >> So, no, go talk go talk to your lawyer, darling, >> and tell your lawyer to send him back a little note that says LOL.

You've got to be freaking kidding me.

>> You're saying oh. It's lol.

>> I know, but it's it's laugh out loud, you fool. Okay, so you've got to be kidding me. Oh >> yeah. >> And you can freeze your kids.

>> Yes, you can. You can pull kids credit reports and you can freeze them.

>> Uh we know this because we did it when Rachel was a when they first started allowing freezing. Rachel was still a minor >> and all of our children entered their adult life with a frozen credit report.

Nothing had ever been on its Nothing could get on it. >> Well, and you do it too to protect them from ID theft just in general like with their you know the internet and scam.

>> You need to freeze it. You need to freeze it because their father is scum.

>> Okay. Well, >> and that will keep him from uh if they actually check the credit before they issue the credit card. They won't issue it if it's frozen next time he tries to do this because there will be a next time. This guy is a serious con artist.

>> I'm sorry, >> man.

>> Okay, here this is Listen to the verbiage. He keeps telling me it's not possible to pull credit reports on our kids, but I don't believe that's true.

So here's let me help you with this.

Anything this guy says is not true. If

his mouth is moving, he's lying. This is a guy who would steal his own children's identity for his own personal benefit.

So the nothing that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. So the only thing that can be trusted are the actual facts and the behavior, not the verbal wishes.

So no, you can pull credit reports on your kids. You can freeze credit reports on your kids. I have done it >> and I would to make sure I mean if he says he paid it off who knows you know so I would pull those credit reports to see what the status is for your kids.

>> I would I would file a criminal on him.

I'd have the police I' I'd set him up and say hey somebody stole my kids uh stole my kid's identity. Oh, it was him.

Absolutely. And and then let him figure that one out.

>> Definitely. So cuz I don't want this guy near them again.

>> This is unbelievable.

Carlo is in Miami. Hey Carlo, what's up?

>> Hi. Hope all all you doing are well.

>> We are. How can we help? >> So, um I wanted to ask your opinion. Um

my mom in February, late February, she passed away from her 10-year cancer battle. >> I'm sorry. >> And I appreciate it. Um and in her

passing, um big family

squables with uh the scraps left behind.

Long story short, I have $110,000 sitting in my bank account. Um, my wife

and I tomorrow are going to go get a biopsy for her. They think she possibly might have cancer.

>> And her father that lives with us. His

cancer came back and we're dealing with that. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah, it's been a it's a rough uh 2025, but >> yeah, >> we're we're still blessed to be here and and making decisions and trying to make things better. So >> who who I assume you and your wife have health insurance? >> Yes, sir. Yes. She works in the medical field. >> Does her father have health insurance?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. >> So, um, my biggest my biggest dilemma is

this. I've always been a saver.

>> Um, I've we're I believe I'm baby step

number five, if not six. We're we're doing rather well. We just turned 40 this year. >> Mh. and I'm trying to balance

keeping funds in the reserve for if

things go south and living life now. Um,

we had a hard time with that with my mother. You know, traveling with her at the end was very difficult, but we made it happen and we made our memories. So,

okay. Um, I'm sorry. What an amazing

amount of challenges. Um,

I would just throw that in a high yield savings account for 6 months

because in 6 months you're going to have a lot more information on these both of these situations.

Okay. >> Um, you know, how expensive a fight have we got? How long a fight have we got?

And how much are we going to look at alternative solutions that met that um

our insurance won't cover?

Okay. And that would be true in either case, but certainly true in your wife's case, right? Um, and then with her dad,

does he have money and how much is he going to, you know, above above is out

of pocket after insurance and then is he going to try or do anything other than that that is going to be expensive?

Okay. >> Well, he doesn't have much. He he lives with us. We have uh in-laws quarters.

>> Um, and he has Medicare and Medicaid. So most of and all of his treatments have been, you know, covered from that.

>> Yeah. >> It's just, you know, I want to do right by him. He's been a workhorse, much like my mother his whole life working.

>> Yeah. But I don't think that I don't think you're going to have $100,000 of medical bills with him.

>> No, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Okay.

>> Absolutely not. I But you know, I don't know what the the future holds.

>> So, you know, um I have the monies right

now in a Schwab account. I could put that in high yield savings. >> I just put it in high yield savings and just forget it's there. It's just sitting there. And then as soon as you actually can quantify these situations a

little bit >> in terms of how long is this going to how long we going to be in this fight and um what's the actual out-ofpocket

expense from these two different fights?

Then that tells you if you can invest and begin to do some other things with some of that money.

Well, >> let let's pretend let's pretend that it's a minor issue with your wife,

>> okay? And it's and it's nothing. We're

done. >> 6 months from now, it's way in the rearview mirror. The biopsy was benign.

No problems, no issue.

We're done. Okay. So, we had a we had a few hundred and deductibles or whatever, some co-pays. We're done.

>> Then you don't have to worry about this 100k for that purpose. I'm not going to leave it around for vague worries, but I'm going to leave it around for specific worries.

>> Well, one of the reasons why I've left it there in that account also is she's attempting to do a career change, which is drastically going to change her income. Um, she currently makes about $100,000 a year. And her career change

could drop us about $30,000 a year. So,

it's a pretty big shortfall that um >> Can you not live on what you make?

>> Well, in Miami, it's a little Do you not live on what you make with her career change?

>> Yes. >> If you can't, she doesn't need to do the career change.

>> Yeah. I mean, it is a luxury and she wants to do it to be home more.

>> Luxury is fine, but can you if you can't live on it, you can't do it.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz if you got to feed your household $30,000 a year, in three years this money's gone, and then you're screwed.

You got a burn rate on this, man. So, you don't create sustainability from savings.

So that's a completely different subject than you called with. But yeah, you you've got to you've got to create a budget that you guys can live on. So if you can afford to live on without touching this money, >> her career change, she can do it. If she can't if you can't, she can't do it >> or you guys change lifestyles.

>> You got to change something. Yeah. But this 100,000 is not gonna save you on that. Not even gonna come close.

So no, that won't work. But but having it set aside to make sure you turn the corner on some cancer diagnosises until you turn the corner, I'd let it sit there.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Open phones at8255225.

Melissa's in New Jersey. Hi Melissa. How are you? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so uh my husband and I have been married for 18 years. We have uh

separate accounts. I'm a teacher. Um he was a construction manager, a project manager for a long time. Now he's self he's uh got laid off from two jobs within two the past two years and now he's self-employed. um and he's building a

business on his own. Um in that process,

we had a our rental property that we

originally lived in when we first got married. We had two kids. It's a two family home. We bought it um together um

after we got married and we the down payment was an account that

my husband had. It was $50,000. His dad

died when he was around nine years old.

And the mother put all of the father's

social security checks into an account to help it grow and that's what he wanted to use that account for to put the down payment on that house. Um then we remodeled it with our wedding money.

We lived in it for about 10 years and

then we um bought a single family home but we kept it as rental. So, our joint, our only joint account was um where the

um house rental uh income was going into

when I was not working because I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years. Um we

also had a joint bank account that was originally his and he just added me on.

>> Gotcha. What's your What's your question, honey? Um my question is is we sold our rental

property and um we he told me it was going into the

joint account and I was sitting at the Starbucks signing papers and the

$475,000 that we made on the house was going into his only account, his sole account.

>> Why did you sign the paper?

Uh because he told me that we would lose our house. We would lose everything because we have no money to live on, which we we we didn't. We would have to sell our house. >> Well, you wouldn't lose everything if he he just changed the account, put it into the joint account.

>> Well, he he didn't.

>> No, I'm just saying I wouldn't sign the papers till he did. Why didn't you say that? >> Because our dynamic uh is based on a lot

of intimidation and fear and I >> So, when is the divorce? >> Look at him. I know. Well, I trusted him

um to take care of our finances because he's very financially savvy and that's, you know, we kind of have our roles and we kind of let our each other take care of our, you know, what we our strengths are. But now he um he won't let me see

the money. He told me the money is his and his mother's money. It's not my money. He did all the remodeling on the house. >> He's confused.

>> So, I don't know what my rights. I don't know what to do. >> The only rights you have are in divorce court. Okay.

Okay. >> That's the only place you're going to get. That's the only place you're going to get a legal right.

>> You have moral and ethical rights, but he's ignoring those.

>> Yeah. >> But New Jersey will take half of that money and give it to you.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I don't know what he did with it. I have no access to anything. He has stock accounts, investment accounts.

>> No. Divorce. Divorce requires discovery.

And if he hides any of that, it's a it's it's um a criminal act, >> right? Well, he says that I am a teacher

because I I put myself through school when the >> Did you not hear me?

>> I know >> half of this is yours.

>> I know. >> Okay, then quit acting like you have to go do all this. What he says doesn't matter. >> I know. >> When the when the law tell tells him what to do, it's going to be interesting for him.

>> You're right. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's it's up to him. Does he want to Cuz >> I mean, it's a this is a marriage issue, Melissa. Obviously, >> you you guys do not have you have very little marriage left.

>> Absolutely. >> Hanging on by. >> Are you Are you um >> wanting something different? Like, what are you thinking? Do you feel >> I want I want a divorce. Um but I I'm

afraid that I'm going to have nothing.

Uh we live a very very nice life. The only way you would have nothing is if he hides it all and your attorney's so weak he lets him get away with it.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But otherwise, you're probably a million. >> Yeah. Yeah. I make um he he was when he was a project manager about two years ago, he made about almost $218,000 a year and I um right now make about

$80,000 a year. I'm a teacher.

>> Okay. But the the bills that I my bills

that I pay toward the house and whatever random needs my I have two teenagers.

Whatever they need, by the end of the day, I don't have much money to put away to save for myself. So when I

need to do, you know, you you have a job, you can pay for it. When I ask him for money, that's exactly what he says.

>> Yeah. This guy's not giving me money to

be around. Yeah.

>> So he says you should be giving me money now. you you let me tell you here's

>> when you um [Applause] >> when you're overwhelmed, what you need are is information and facts and information or facts that are coming from him are not information or facts because we know him to not be a reliable source. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> I'm not a lawyer in New Jersey, but you need one. >> Yeah. So, if you go sit down with an attorney and say, "Okay, here's what I do know. I know we had this 475. I know we had this stock account. I know we had this. >> How can I be protected in this process?" And the attorney will explain it to you what the laws are in New Jersey. You can have a consultation with an attorney, a divorce attorney, and it probably won't cost you a dime to do the consultation

>> and gather information because you're functioning in fear, not on facts.

>> And when you're in trauma, when you're in a a dramatic situation like this, your emotions are making the decisions, and they're not making good decisions because they're not based on facts. And so, if you just cut through all that and go, "Facts are my friends. Facts are my friends. The way he makes me feel is not a fact. That's a feeling.

>> The way I The fear of he may have stole all this money. I may never get any of it. I may be broke. I may be homeless.

That's not a fact. That's a fear.

>> Okay. The facts are you have a teaching job. It's really good. The facts are that New Jersey requires child support to be paid when you have teenagers. The facts are that New Jersey will require some kind of property disposition, probably around 50% each.

Those are the facts. Now, once you have those facts and you go, gosh, half this money is mine. The law says that. Now,

then you can go back and say, "Bubba, if we're going to keep this together, we're going to have to go see a marriage counselor, and everything in this house is going to change. Otherwise, we're not going to be able to keep this together." I've spoken with a divorce attorney and I have an appointment with a marriage counselor. Which one do you want me to go to?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm going to do that.

Yeah. >> But you do all that from knowledge, which will make you much calmer.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because all these things are spinning out in your head and he's activating a four-year-old version of little Melissa who thinks she's going to be on the street. And you're not you're not honey.

You're going to be okay.

>> And I I I hope you don't have to go through this. I hope the guy can be woke up and you can save your marriage. That would be neat. >> But at this moment, you don't want to be married to him. I can hear it. And nobody does. Nobody wants to be married to the guy you've described for the last few minutes. So, I'm so sorry. But yeah,

go get some actual information.

And that gives you power.

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Brian's in Minnesota. Hey, Brian. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. So, I had a quick question for you, I guess. Uh, so I'm in a predicament. It's not necessarily a bad one. So, I am 26 years old. I bought

housebo about 5 years ago when the market was pretty cheap. Uh, I have 130,000 in savings doing nothing for me, but I only have 95,000 left on the mortgage. So, I guess my question was, what's your opinion on what I should do is if I should pay it off early with the money I have saved. Should I invest into something or just keep it in a high yield savings account?

>> Where'd you get 130,000?

>> Uh, I'm very frugal. I'm a good saver.

I've worked for every penny of it and nothing's been handed to me and yeah, it's a good saving money, I guess. So, >> you're single?

>> Uh, no. I get married actually next December. >> Oh, congratulations.

>> Does she have any debt?

>> Uh, no. She's got no debt at all. She makes 80k a year and yeah, I guess we

don't know what to do right now. >> Sounds like a match made in heaven.

>> But it's kind of kind of too good to be true. It's kind of what now? Yeah.

>> So, >> I don't want to be sitting here wasting money on but my mortgage is only 3% and at the the bank I'm getting 4% on my money. Yeah. >> So, I'm like, well, I could pay my house off and live pretty gener generously

with my wife, obviously have some kids and go from there. >> Yeah. >> So, I guess I'm kind of stuck on what I should do. >> Okay. >> Uh, if I woke up in your shoes after doing what I do for 35 years, um, I

would write a check today and pay off your house >> and I'd have no payments. Take your shoes off, walk through the backyard, you'll find the grass feels different.

>> I thought about doing it again. I just got out of Astro this past week and that was a nightmare and a half. Sounds like the biggest scam I've ever been through before. And I was like, you know, you just want me to be done with this loan?

I'll just be done. >> But each month, >> you know, I've been telling people to pay off their mortgages and situations like this for 30 years. I have never had someone call me back and say, "Gosh, I really regret doing that.

Never had somebody tell me it was a bad idea. And by the way, Brian, if you hate being debtree, you can always go get you another mortgage.

>> So, I would write a check and pay it off today, hun. >> Amen. Hallelujah. >> Yeah. Just >> Well done, Brian. >> Yeah, that's very cool. Good for you.

Rick's in Las Vegas. Hey, Rick. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call today. Appreciate it.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I have a 401k question for you. I'm just trying to plan for next year. Um, I max out my 401k every single year, not

only as an individual, but from the company contributions as well. Um, this year it was uh 23,500 for individual and

I think 46,000 from the company, so 70 grand total. My question is >> next year um I'm debating on whether I

want to frontload it all um by February.

We get a huge profit sharing check every single year and I I max it out in February. >> Mhm. Is it better to do that or is it better to spread it out throughout the year?

>> Well, the um we we have taught in our world dollar cost averaging for so long that people sometimes avoid the lump sum and so um

and that's kind of what brings your question to bear. So, um what I do is uh

I fully fund mine in the first month of the year. >> Okay? >> And the reason is this. Okay? The only reason you would spread it out throughout the year is if emotionally

you can't handle the stock market going up and down and you're going to freak out.

But I that doesn't bother me a bit because I don't even look at it. I just put it in there and I'm thinking I'm probably never going to touch it. I'm probably putting it in there for Rachel's kids cuz I'm not probably going to use that money anyway. But the uh um

and Denise and Daniel's kids, but anyway, it's not just Rachel's kids, but the uh Rachel's kids are like, "Woohoo!" Yeah, Papa Dave. Yeah. But uh anyway, the uh um yeah, so the the the point being that mathematically

um even if the market goes down right after

you put it in, by the end of the year, it will have gone up more than it went down 90% of the time. That's the history

of the stock market. Okay.

>> Okay. And so, you know, sometimes you get a bare market that lasts over 12 or 14 months, but very seldom. It's, you

know, if you go back and look at the look at the track record of the stock market, look at the S&P charts, okay?

and and you know look at how many times you know so what ends up happening is is the the entire lump sum is earning money

all year or one 12th of the lump sum is

earning money then 212th is earning money then 312th is earning money then 412th is earning money so the point is I'm making those S&P returns for 12 months while someone that's spreading it out is not getting the same dollar result that I'm getting that make sense

Yes, it does. >> So, I lump summit for that reason. But you can't do that if you can't emotionally handle two months later

Trump burps and the market goes down,

you know, or he throws a tariff on some bizarre country that we never heard of and the market goes down, you know, or whatever it is, right? And so, you don't know what's going to happen out there on the short term. And so, you can't be freaking out all the time if you're doing that. >> Yeah.

But >> you lump some of yours at first, don't you? >> Yes. And depending on age, for sure that your mindset should always be long-term, >> right? >> I mean, if you're, you know, 61 and you're looking at retiring, you know, there's something there.

Yeah. So, I mean, like it's it's there's not really a point >> unless you're 58. >> That's right.

Yeah. In my case, I can I could touch it if I wanted to because I'm 65, >> which would be I could see that having a different psychology, but but when you're when you're younger than that, you know, when you're in your 40s, >> uh 50s, 30s, all of it, you know, it's long term anyway. So, >> if you're not thinking in five year blocks of time or longer, you shouldn't be putting in a 401. >> That's right.

That's right. >> Even at my age, you need to be thinking long term.

because again, I'm probably not going to ever touch that money. Mhm. >> I've got plenty of other stuff generating income without touching that.

And so that money's probably it's all in Roth, too. So, it's all going to pass completely taxfree. It's awesome. So, uh

yeah, that another reason I won't be touching it. So, yeah, that's the thing which also kind of we can sidebar on that for a second, Rachel. It's a good teaching point. Um, and I didn't think about this when I was your age and teaching this stuff and I was your age and doing this stuff and building the wealth. But now, now that I as as I'm hitting these milestones, 65

and all that, I'm starting to understand at 72 and a half, you have if you have

traditional IAS or 401ks that have not

yet been taxed, you have required minimum distributions that are beginning. you have to begin to take it out cuz the government wants their tax money.

If it's in a Roth, it is growing taxfree

and there's no RMDs, no required minimum distributions. I have moved over the years 100% of ours into Roth and paid the taxes on those lump sums as I did that. Even the matching portion at Ramsey that where I match myself has to be it's required to be but uh traditional. >> Mhm. >> But each year I roll it to Roth.

>> Yeah. So, I don't have anything that's not Roth now at my age. So, this is really beautiful. Not only is all that growing tax-free for me, but then also I

don't have RMDs. I wouldn't I never I

couldn't spell what Yeah. What?

>> It's just a required number. >> No, no, no. What's the What's the dollar amount? >> The dollar it's a chart. It's a percentage percentage of >> more each year. Okay. Because they want to get their taxes. Yeah. They're going to require you to begin to cash out traditionals. But if it's not traditional, you're not required to take it out. And it's continuing to grow taxfree. And with the new Biden Secure

Act, the legislation that was passed under President Biden, if you do an inherited IRA and it's a traditional,

all the taxes are due within 10 years.

>> You have to cash it out over 10 years.

If it's a there's no taxes due on a Roth, >> none of that applies. So when I do leave it to you or the kids >> as a as an inherited IRA as a beneficiaries then that that there's

zero tax on it.

>> None and no required distribution. So getting that stuff moved into Roth as you get old >> if you can pay the tax if you can figure out a way to pay the taxes. It it voids all that stuff. I didn't even think about all that stuff when I was in my 30s. I was just chunking money in there like crazy. And now I look back and go, man, that Roth stuff's freaking genius.

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Seven out of 10 Americans die without a will.

Listen, if you hate your family,

make a big old pile of money, make it real complicated, and die without a will. They will fight for the next 15 years, and they'll hate each other. You will completely shut down all their productivity because they'll be screwing with your stuff. Unbelievable.

Howard Hughes, one of the richest men in America at that time, died with $2.5

billion dollars in 1976. It took almost 10 years to settle. 600 people filed a

claim.

22 of his legal cousins ended up with the money. Was split among 22 people.

The judge finally decided almost a decade later. Guess who got most of the money? The lawyers.

>> That's how that works.

>> So if you want if you want to do that, that's fine. But that's called dumb.

Okay. Get a will.

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Will month. Michelle's in North Carolina. Hi Michelle. What's up?

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm honored to be talking to both of you. >> You too. How can we help?

>> Um my boyfriend and I started dating in April and we're really in love and thinking about getting married this October. Um he's in about $60,000 worth

of debt and I'm out of consumer debt. I just have my mortgage. I have about a $500,000 net worth with my house and my

retirement and um my parents helped me buy my house as a gift and my dad is saying that I should get a prenup before getting married. Um especially because we haven't been dating that long. So I'm wondering what your all's thoughts would be on that.

>> I mean yes. So you I mean you you started dating and we'll get married within six months. Is that right?

>> Yeah. Just seven, but yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> How old are you?

>> 34. >> Okay.

Um.

>> Wow. Well, the thing is your dad just

doesn't trust the situation.

>> Yeah, that I get. >> Yeah. And if you don't trust the situation, you should get a prenup. But if you don't trust the situation, you probably should be engaged a little longer until you trust the situation.

>> Yeah. Yeah. One thing I'm worried about is um this would be his second marriage and he has a child from his previous marriage and he's been having some custody issues there. So I'm definitely worried about what could happen with my finances and my home once we combine everything and you know if his ex-wife

for a long time you're marrying into that. >> Yeah. >> And so if he spends you know y'all if you have combined finances and you all have to spend some money on custody that's going to affect your income and your savings and your investments, right? It's not going to cause you to lose your home, >> but it is going to, you know, it's that's what you're getting with the package. >> Yeah. >> For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge.

That's the old marriage vows. Remember them? >> Mhm. >> Yeah.

So, um, okay. Our rule of thumb when I

first started, I I told nobody to no one should get prenups because you're planning your divorce and if you if you like your house more than you like him, you shouldn't get married. And that's what I used to tell everybody. Okay, I don't say that anymore. Exactly that way.

Um I have said that a couple times on weird things like one lady called up and uh her uh boyfriend, her fiance wanted a prenup because he had a uh a vintage sports car >> that was worth $100,000. And I'm like, he likes his car more than he does you. you don't need to marry him.

So, uh, but what I where I have,

um, where I am trying to keep things moving is is not it's not assuming that

you really feel a thousand% about him,

that he's okay and he's aligned on getting out of debt, staying out of debt, living like you live. You're going to live on a plan. We're going to combine our finances. we're going to make life together. Um, we're going to

make decisions together in unity. If if

he's completely trustworthy on that,

then the only reason I would do a prenup and if he's not, by the way, he's not ready to get married.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And that's up that's something you got to solve, and I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask you that here because I don't think that I don't think that's the case. I I I sense this guy's the way you're describing him is solid.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I mean, he's got outside issues the with the child support possibly, that kind of stuff. But, um, so anyway,

uh, uh, the reason we tell people to do prenups these days is if there is an extreme difference in net worth. Okay,

he has >> negative negative net worth and you have

$10 million or $5 million. Okay, you don't. You've got $500,000.

>> So, it's not extreme, but it is enough that I get your dad. Okay, I understand him thinking that. And your dad actually gave you the money to get this started. So, I get that, too. Okay.

>> I'm not I'm not mad at your dad on this, but so yours is not extreme, but the reason we tell people to do that when it's extreme is actually not the person you're marrying. I'm not trying to protect you from them. I'm trying to protect you from his ex-wife thinks she can keep you guys in court forever because he married a girl's got some money.

>> I don't want to send her that message.

And he could just look at her and go, "I don't have any access to this. I got prenup.

and shut her little emotions down because there's or or the crazy relative of whoever that comes along and thinks, "Oh, hey, this guy hit the jackpot." And you go, "No, he's got a prenup." Um, so that kind it kind of helps the outside crazies more than the two of you. Does

that make sense? >> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> And so I

>> It's probably It's probably a short timeline. Yeah, that's probably >> because you know if you had told me a little bit l more lengthy engagement and

you guys went through financial peace university together, you were completely aligned and you go through good strong premarriage counsel counseling. I would probably say no. Um

I'm on the bubble with yours though. I I might I might >> in yours. I'm not I wouldn't be I wouldn't think you're stupid if you did it one way or didn't do it the other. Okay. If you do it or don't do it. So, I mean, if your dad thinks you're just crazy, I would disagree with your dad.

Okay? But he he if he's just saying this is a wise suggestion, you should consider it, then I would agree with him on that. Okay? And if and also a wise

suggestion is for you to you guys to spend some time in premarriage counseling and deal with, okay, what comes up when we got a $20,000 legal bill to fight the crazy ex on the kid.

>> Mhm. >> Can you handle that emotionally? And when you guys get married, Michelle, like to the point that you're so unified that this $60,000 of debt is yours, too.

>> Yeah. You get it paid off. >> Yeah. And you guys solve it together.

>> You get it paid off immediately. >> I'm on board with >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and so if you guys can work through that kind of stuff, the length of the engagement uh becomes less stressful for me. I will tell you this, the the data tells us um and there's

lots of data on this that a six-month

engagement period and a 3 to four month

dating period prior to that marriage within 12 months of being uh within within 12 months of meeting is has a very high probability of success.

And as you short as you shorten it, statistically the probability of success goes down. And as you lengthen it dramatically, fiveyear engagements are bull crap. >> Okay? >> Pain or get off the ladder, right?

And so, you know, as you lengthen it, it doesn't make sense because the relationship gets strained for all these other reasons. Then we're just playing games. So, um, but anyway, that's the data that we have on marriage stats. And so, you're you're a little bit short on that data.

It's not a deal killer, but you know, cuz that incorporates, "Hey, I met you last weekend. Let's go to Vegas >> and we're married." You know, those don't those only make it in the movies, okay? And uh cuz they wake up from the hangover and like, "Oh, what did I do?" And >> they get an anulment like Rachel and Ross.

>> Rachel and Ros, we have a Friends reference in the movie. >> Oh, I'm so proud of you. You know that.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, anyway, all of that all end of speech, Michelle. So, I hear what your dad's saying. you hear what your dad's saying cuz you're you're not a child. You're 34 years old.

>> Yep. >> And so this not, you know, >> I I think you solve for those concerns for you, >> not for your dad. >> And if you can get to where you're a,000% solid, if you want to not do one, I'm okay. And if you got a little itch and you want to do one, that's okay. But it's also an indication you probably need to do some more work before you go to the altar.

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Our scripture of the In Hebrews 6:19,

we have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. Serena Williams

said, "I am lucky that whatever fear I have inside me, my desire to win is

always stronger." Lori is in Florida. Hi, Lori. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. >> What's up? Um, I am going through a pretty um bad

divorce. Um, I had to cash in some of my

retirement account um back in March because my um spouse

decided to stop um supporting our

family. Um

of that money, I have about $38,000 left

from there.

We just sold a second home that we had

and I was able to get partial proceeds

from that um 70,000.

So my question is um I have credit card

debt. Um I just started working again.

I'm basically a single mom because I'm not getting any financial support from him. And um >> how many children do you have?

>> We have one together.

um >> with you >> and yes >> and how old?

>> 10. >> And how has your lawyer got gotten away let them get away with no financial support?

>> Um he has lost his job. He had a very good

career and he made some really bad um

decisions and to the point where he may lose a license um may not may not have a

career. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have an income. That's why you don't have child support. It's not because he's just being arbitrary. Not because the divorce is tough. He he lost his job.

>> He did. And he had also he also cashed out all of our kids kids um college

funds, retirement accounts that he had.

And he's basically being non um he's not

being forthcoming with his financials.

>> Is your is your attorney riding riding him? >> I mean, you're slapping him around, pulling him up before the judge and exposing all this, right?

>> Yes. Um, the thing is I just came into

this lump sum of money fairly recently

and I need to pay my attorney basically what I owe him. >> Yeah. What do you owe your attorney?

>> 20,000. >> Okay. >> Out of the 70. That leaves you 50 and then you got 36 left from the other.

>> Yes. >> And you got taxes and penalties. You got taxes and penalties on that retirement account you cashed out.

>> Yes, sir. >> Coming up next year. This was in 25 you did that or 24? did 25.

>> All right. And you cashed out 50 grand.

>> And so you're going to have a $5,000 penalty plus your taxes on that are about another 20 grand. You're about a $25,000 tax bill.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Just just being prepared for next April. Okay. Mentally, that's what we got to do. And are you working? Obviously, you are. You said you're a single mom. What do you make?

>> Um I have been out of the workforce. I'm a nurse. Um, I've been out of the workforce for um, several years and I just went back to work in uh, in May.

>> Good. >> And >> what do you make?

>> Um, after taxes about 4,200 a month.

>> And you're a nurse?

>> I am. >> Okay. All right. You're not getting a lot of hours, are you?

Um, it's u I've had to if I went and

worked night shift I could get differentials that then I have child care >> Yeah. >> issues. >> Yeah, I got you. >> I'm I'm relying on >> family and and friends right now for child care because he can't be >> he's not involved. >> I understand. Can't be with what's going on. He's obviously got some bad stuff going on. Yeah. Okay. >> He does. >> Um All right. And so your question was what? Let me let me get back to that.

>> What do I I owe my if I give my to speed

this divorce up, I'd pay my attorney

20,000.

>> Mhm. >> And um then I potentially will get the rest

of the proceeds that were from the

vacation home sale.

>> Yeah. >> Now our mayors to offset the fact that he hit all the other stuff. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The marital home um is currently

um being sold as well. So now I'm in the

process of looking for a place to to go to live with my >> with my daughter. >> Are there proceeds from that too?

>> There will be there's significant over it'll be >> you're asking are you asking whether to pay your attorney the 20k? Yes is the answer. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here's Listen. As long as this drags out, you cannot create your future

cuz you're living in your past.

>> Yes, sir. >> And it it's painful as hell. I mean, this is a hard it's hard to listen to you. It's awful. I'm so sorry for you.

>> And uh it's not only heartbreaking, it's ang it makes you angry and disgusted all at the same time. And all those emotions swirling around. It's hard to do anything. >> So, and and and I've just been talking to you 3 minutes and I'm already feeling all of it. So, I mean, it's like I I can't imagine being in your head. So, bless your heart. I'm so sorry.

>> So, yeah, I I want to get this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can cuz it sounds like this guy needs to go away and I need clarity about what I've got to deal what cards I have in my hand to deal with my future.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Get the houses sold, get the money in the bank, build up the career, get an apartment, get settled, and then let's talk about rebuilding and going from here. Uh but the first thing we got to do is create a sustainable safe situation where we've got housing, where we've got a sustainable income and we have uh figured out what we have net net with a $25,000 tax bill coming up in the fall in the spring. And so, um yeah, um

I'm I'm paying him and getting all this in the rearview mirror as fast as I can.

And then I've got a friend that does divorce recovery work and uh she taught me years and years and years ago that divorce turns a business or turns a marriage into a business transaction. So this just becomes a column now of assets and liabilities of income and you just

it's just a math thing now because all all this emotion and all this um betrayal and all this misbehavior are

just the drama and the sidebar. But the the actual story is you and the 10-year-old moving forward with a pocket full of money and you're a nurse and you can go make a great living being a nurse and you're going to have a great life from here. But you just need, you know, to not have to burn all the calories dealing with this crap all the time, right?

>> Yes, sir. He's just wasted away like millions of dollars. It's >> Oh, I can't imagine. Can't imagine. I'm sure. >> Yeah. And hopefully you can get the proceeds from the vacation house, the family house, and everything to offset all the crap that he's, you know, that he's stolen from this discussion

>> and uh get it all set back up. And yeah, when you can get that and get this in the rearview mirror, it'll make all the difference in the world. >> Yeah. Clearing these debts at least with all these proceeds will clear you up financially and mentally.

Just there's a lot going on right now. Let's simplify as much as we can. >> Yeah. So main thing is get the attorney paid.

keep get that going. And then let's quantify. You know, I got $25,000 tax bill coming up. I need to hold that money aside.

And then I need to look at what else I need to clean up, get me an apartment, get an income that we can live on, and then from there, we'll build the career. From there, we'll build a life >> out of this. And that's where you're going from here. Man, that's just painful.

It helps to just put it all down in writing. Put it on a note and just go, "Here's all the things that I have, all the debts I need to pay off. Here's all the money I have coming in." And it just helps clear it from your mind to see it on paper. And doing a budget will also help you. I'll gift you um every dollar, Lori, to help you just put all this on paper. I'm making 4200 a month. Where should every single dollar be going?

That's one less thing you got to think about once you see it on on there, right there on the app, wherever you go. >> And I don't want you to rent something nice. I want you to rent something cheap cuz it's temporary. You're not going to be there long. You might be there one year maybe. So I This is not the Taj

Mahal. The 10-year-old's life is not going to be better because of the rental

property you get. So just keep it cheap because you need the margin. I want you to have lots of margin where you're not touching any of this this pile of money at all for living. If you can set yourself up where you live on the 4200, that's a sustainable beginning and you go from there. So, wow. So, I'm sorry, kiddo. It's real painful. I ap I'm sorry you're going through that. It's awful.

Not fair. And uh some people's misbehavior. Wow. That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

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## 102. Live from Charlotte: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 5, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:33:38 |

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How much should I expect my boyfriend to

be paying on an engagement ring?

>> I'm a little irritated. >> Why, Ken Coleman?

>> Hannah, relax. >> Single people, stand up for a second.

You two stay up. If you want to go out, Ramsay Solutions will pay for your first date.

I feel like he makes purchases that from my perspective are excessive. What set

expenses? >> Cologne.

>> He gets it. >> Yeah. >> If I wanted to get her to say a luxury handbag. >> What kind of bag? What kind of price?

>> 3 to 4,000. >> Ooh. Yikes. Y'all are bringing the fast balls tonight. >> How can I manage burnout and help my partner understand why becoming debtree matters so much to me? >> Why does he hate me? >> He thinks it's a cult. There we go.

>> I don't want this to be a point of tension for you guys. I want you to feel validated in your decisions.

>> Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, brought to you by the Fair Winds Credit Union. Live from Charlotte, North

Carolina, this is the Ramsy Show.

Yes.

>> WOW. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, alongside my esteemed colleagues, George Campbell and the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman, and we're so thrilled to be with you here in the Queen City, Charlotte. And

we're going to have some fun tonight. This is the Rayzy show, but it's live.

So, we're taking your questions tonight.

And I got good news and bad news. The good news is there's no dump button. We can't hang up on you. But, George, tell them the bad news. >> Bad news is it's your personal brand on the line. So, just know we can't stop you from being you. >> That's exactly right. So, so fun. So, as you can see, we got our mic back here and we're going to start it off with Christopher. Christopher, come on down.

Give Christopher some love.

There we go.

>> Where are you from? >> Hey guys, uh Greenville, South Carolina.

>> Nice. >> So, my question is, my wife and I are in baby steps four, five, and six, and I would like to get her something to quote cousin Eddie. Really nice. And I'm

wondering if I wanted to get her, say, a luxury handbag, uh, for instance, does that fit in? And steps four, five, and six, obviously pay cash, but I I just want to get y'all's thoughts, judgments on that. >> No judgment here, pal. That's called good husband.

>> You know which one she wants.

>> You have on her mind. >> Yes. >> There's a range. Can >> you tell us for fun? >> She here. >> No. Okay. >> I mean, she knows I'm here, but >> Well, so >> I I just didn't want to ruin the surprise. I >> Oh. >> So, so what what are you talking about?

What kind of bag? What kind of price?

>> Uh 3 to 4,000.

>> It's a nice bag. >> What kind What is it? Uh, it's a Louis Louis Vuitton bag. >> I got to tell you, nothing makes a woman happier than a Louis. >> Oh, good. Good to hear.

>> I I speak from experience. Uh, I

surprised Stacy. I walked her by the Louis store one day and I was just kind of himing and hawing. I go, "Let's just go in here and look." And she did the whole, "We're not going to get a bag." I go, "I know, but let's just go look." And I got her the bag.

>> Nice. Nice.

>> All right, let's All right, George, you're nerding out here. I can feel you right now. What are your What are your numbers? George wants to run through the numbers. >> Do you have the money?

>> Yes. >> Okay. You have That's outside of an emergency fund, obviously. And is this a large part of your world or net worth?

>> Uh, it it would not be. No, sir.

>> You could burn three grand on the table and you'd be like, "All right, that stinks, but I'm going to be just fine." >> It would stink, but we would be okay.

>> I mean, that's that's about as far as I need to go to give you the green light.

>> Okay, >> get the bag. >> Rachel, what do you think?

What do I think? >> You're a bad girl. >> Christopher Christopher, what do you think? I think >> uh send it, buy it, get it, >> do it.

>> Oh, for sure. For sure. And she'll have it for a long time and it's going to be wonderful. >> Okay.

>> Cuz you you guys have worked hard. I mean, honestly, a lot of people when they get to baby steps four through six, it's really hard for them to spend money.

Like, that is fun. And so some people again may roll their eyes at a at a bag or they may roll their eyes at what you spend on a vacation or they'll roll their eyes at whatever it may be. The one of the things I roll my eyes at if I'm being honest is like kid birthday parties like 2-year-olds where it looks like a wedding reception. I roll my eyes but it's not a values.

It's not a right or wrong, right? If you have the money for it. Some people will not understand why you would ever buy a bag that expensive.

And that's great. It's not a moral issue. You have the money. Do it. Louie.

>> Cool. Thank you guys. >> Love it. Yes. >> I would say this, like do it in your way, but like don't just show up with it. Put a little effort into it. You know what I mean? Whatever that is. >> Rachel's got an idea.

>> Yes. Yes. Okay.

>> I love planning a surprise. I'm going to see where this goes >> because a designer bag that nice, it's going to have beautiful packaging. Okay.

So, your your the bag is going to be huge. And then the box that it comes in is going to be fantastic. And then it comes in another s it comes in a whole cloth. Let her o let her don't just take it out of all that and give it to her.

She needs to do the whole experience if it's a gift. Like let her open it. Open that box. Oh, it's just it's like an Apple product on steroids.

>> Can I guess and this? >> It's not a iPhone. It's a Louis.

>> Can I Yes. And this cuz I think that's great. Everything she said I'm going to add one thing. Is there something like um very household functional, a little bit bigger? Maybe it's uh maybe it's something an antique or something she's been looking at or something that would be like in a large nondescript bag or box that maybe she wants that you guys have been talking about. We need to get like a a fridge for the garage or you

you know what I'm saying? Do you you see where I'm going? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. So, the idea is it's a misdirection.

>> I like that. and you do everything that that Rachel said except that it's like let's say you were talking about a garage freezer just because I got to give you something tactical. And so you're like, "Babe, you're not going to believe this. I went to the scratch and dent and I found a garage freezer for $70." And she goes, "Oh, get it." You're like, "I'm bringing it.

You got to look at this thing. It's unbelievable." She's like, "I don't need to open." I said, "Babe, you got to check this freezer out. It's unbelievable." She opens what she thinks is a freezer box and it's a Louis box.

>> Misdirection makes the surprise better.

>> I have a tactical question. How are you going to spend that money without her knowing?

>> So, we've talked about it and it's it's more of like a I mean, because we do the finances are combined, so she would know. So, it's more of a >> hey, don't look at it this week, I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Does she check the savings? Is she like a very much aware of what's in savings on a constant basis?

>> Yes, but she's more of a weekly checker.

She doesn't obsess over it.

>> Perfect. So, she doesn't get an alert, right? >> No. >> Okay. Here's my point. You don't You just get it and write home.

>> Well, I had an idea and I pitched my idea. You got a Fair Winds credit union account yet? >> I don't. >> Okay. Here's my idea. >> Nice product placement, George.

>> Just open the open the smart bundle.

Here it is, though. We open the smart bundle, transfer the money there, and use that Ramsay debit card to purchase it. And then hopefully she doesn't even know the savings move temporarily.

>> Wow. Open a secret account.

>> Big brain thinking.

>> I like my approach better.

>> Mine gets you massive hugs and kisses.

And >> hey, babe, don't look at the account. Yeah, it works. >> No, no, he doesn't have to say look at the account cuz she's not going to look at it that day. So, go buy it. He goes straight to Louis. He's already got the fridge box and the whole thing planned.

It's all seamless. She didn't even know what hit her. >> Just let us know how it goes.

>> People want to know. >> Hey, listen to me. I know how to do this. >> Do it that way. Hey, give me some love.

Great question, guys. >> Way to go.

>> All right. Next up is Hannah. Where is Hannah? Give Hannah as she gets down to the mic. Where's Hannah? >> Oh, she's coming from the front. Yeah.

Make your way up. Everyone give Hannah around Hannah.

>> Good job, Hannah.

>> Hannah, where are you from?

>> I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Fantastic. Thanks for coming. What's your question? >> My question is, how much should I expect

my boyfriend to be paying on an engagement ring?

>> Ooh yikes. Y'all are bringing the fast balls tonight. >> My boyfriend is here, so you can be generous. >> Is this him right here? >> OH MY GOODNESS.

>> I think we need him on the mic, too, don't you? >> Yeah, >> I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm a man of the people. I'm going to come down here.

>> Well, I don't know if you wanted to join her up there. Do you want to go with her? I think you should go up there. Yeah. >> Yes. >> This is fantastic. >> This is what we need.

>> Okay. Hannah. Hannah on the mic real quick. Did he know you were going to do this?

>> Uh, I did. Yeah. >> Oh, so you're willingly participating.

>> Hey, you got a nice watch there. >> Communicate so well. >> Didn't expect to be on the mic, but I was willing for her to ask the question.

>> Okay. >> I got to know what kind of watch you're wearing there. >> Uh, it's a t-ot.

>> What's that cost? >> Uh, it was about a grand. Oh, okay. Just give me a good baseline. Just give me a good baseline. >> And are you are you aware that she's expecting a ring? I hope.

>> Uh, yeah, we've definitely discussed it.

>> Okay. And, uh, have you been planning for this financially? >> Uh, yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Are you willing to tell us right here and now how much you've been planning to spend?

>> Uh, or would you like to keep that private? >> Oh, yeah. >> I've been told kind of like two to three month salary. >> Who told you? Who told you that?

>> Uh, parents. >> Every kiss begins with K. >> No. >> Okay. Just just friends and parents I would say >> to beers. Yeah. Well, that's a lot of marketing. I know two to three months.

>> That's a lot. >> Yeah. What do you uh what do you >> I think that's average. That is what they say. >> What do you I'm in tech sales.

>> Oh, you're going to get a nice ring, sweetheart.

>> Yeah. Well, uh do you have any debt?

>> Uh no, debtree. >> He has a family friend who works for Diamonds Direct as well. >> So, you're getting debtree and Diamonds Direct connection. >> Okay. And have you I have a sister.

>> She's teeing it up. >> Yes, she has. Have you two talked about a price? >> You have. >> Uh >> I bet not. >> She's talked about the size of the ring that she wants.

>> So Hannah, are you aware of what said size costs?

>> Nope.

>> Let's be honest. Do you really think he would give you a ring that you'd be disappointed with? >> No. >> I think it's a mood point then. >> All right. Well, I want to dig a little more. This is too juicy. Uh, what is your name, sir? >> Uh, Jeff. >> Jeff. Uh, have you >> are adorable, by the way. >> I'm rooting for this couple already. They're >> fantastic. You guys are a handsome couple. Uh, have you went and looked at

the size ring that she wants and priced it? >> Uh, we've went and looked, but I haven't really priced it now. >> I think you should price it. >> Yeah. >> And then George, after he prices it, we don't know what we're dealing with, and we're trying to keep a little bit of mystery here. Although Hannah has put this poor boy on the spot.

>> Yeah. It's a little too late. I mean, he has to put a ring on my gun. I would price it. I would price it. And I don't know, George, if I like that two to three months salary business, that feels artificial. >> That's a very >> Well, like we got a call on the Ramsay show. This guy wanted to spend $80,000 on a ring. So, there is a level where it's like out of control.

>> Um, >> okay, back to our values thing, y'all. If he made 15 million a year, who I mean, you know what I'm saying? That's why the salary of what you make per month is a good gauge of it.

>> My heart says a month make 15 million.

Trust me, it says a month a month salary is plenty. >> Yeah. >> Um well, here's I think we may have varying opinions. I'll vote and say I think you need to go price it and price it multiple times. Talk to your buddy.

Say here's the situation. Hannah's amazing. This is what she wants. This is what I feel comfortable with. Cuz I think you know in your mind what a comfortable number is, don't you? You're a responsible young man. >> I would say so. Yeah. >> All right. I would if you can't get her what she wants, you get her something close and we have a fine conversation about it. And Hannah, you want to marry this man, do you not?

>> Yes. >> All right. Are you going to be happy with what beautiful ring he gets you?

>> Yes. >> All right.

>> Then that's right. Right now. NO.

>> NO. >> NO. You got to wait, Hannah. Let this man come up with a plan.

>> The simplest answer is how much should you spend, how much you can afford at the time you want to propose. >> Y >> that's it. And then you and then factor in depending on your situation if you guys have to pay for the wedding, the honeymoon, do you want a down payment on a house? I mean, you know, like the at the money at that point all is put into a big bowl and saying how do we want to divvy this up?

And you guys need to talk about that to say what are our values? What are our goals? >> What's the priority? >> Yeah.

What's the priority? >> I got to tell you, I'm a little irritated. >> Why, Ken Coleman? >> I think there needs to be more mystery among this young generation.

Why are we even talking about this? >> Well, you're the one that told him to go up to the mic. because she asked THE QUESTION IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY. I don't want you two talking about this.

Hannah, relax. >> I'm with Rachel. Like, I think you need to put it all in a bucket and then divy it out. And I would much rather be on a beautiful diamond than maybe a >> wedding venue or a dress or other things.

We'll see. Okay.

>> All right. All I'm saying, I'm having fun. I'm I'm truly not irritated, but I'm slightly irritated because I do think there needs to be mystery. And I think the young man should get a little information from you and then you just need to go about your life and let him come up with a plan. Let him buy a nice ring. We got too much planning going on.

Where's the romance? >> How old are you guys? How old are you?

>> Uh I'm 26.

>> Yeah. 27. >> Yeah. Okay. >> What does that have to do with me? >> Because they're hardworking, late 20s. They know what they want in life. So they can have grown-up conversations of where we want our money to go as a couple. >> I didn't say that. I want the mystery around the engagement. The way the engagement happens can be the mystery.

>> That's the mystery. But to decide of how much what I'm talking about, >> but how much money we want to spend on a ring that can be talked about. Okay. I'm okay with that. As long as you pay cash, that's my thing. And in 2 years, it's you're going to be fine. You know what I mean? >> Or Hannah, you may be slightly disappointed with the size. I don't know. But then in 10 years, you can upgrade a ring. Or in 20 years, right?

Like it doesn't it's great. So, it's fine. But I do like the month. I like basing it on what you make per year. I like that. I like that model. Blame it on K's, but I don't like it.

>> Who's with me like to see a little more mystery?

>> Trying to rally everyone to get on his side. Now, leave the poor couple alone.

This is going out to the YouTube millions. I want I want a good message out there amongst the crowd. That's loud and clear. Hey, you guys are fun sports.

I'm having a little bit of fun, but kind of serious. Give him a big big hand.

>> Congratulations, you guys. Good job.

>> Wow, that was fun. Little We We need a little dissension up here every once in a while so we cover it from every angle.

>> Yeah, I don't think any of us agreed on exactly what to do there, but I think we got there. >> I think we got there. It was lovely. >> We left them confused and in love.

>> That's it. >> That's it. >> As it should be. >> Okay, our next question is Nora. Where is Nora? Give her some love as she gets to the mic. There she is. >> Nora.

Hi, Nora. >> Hello. >> Where are you from? >> Raleigh, North Carolina. >> Nice. >> I'm a nurse feeling burnt out from working so much overtime even though I'm trying to stay focused on paying my remaining 76,000 student loans. I've already paid 83,000, but I'm exhausted.

How can I manage burnout, stay motivated, and help my partner understand why becoming debtree matters so much to me? >> Wow, good for you. First of all, this is a nurse who's working absolutely herself to the bone to get out of debt. Let's give her some money to grow. That's great.

>> So, what what's your expected payoff date? If you continue at the pace you're on right now, when would you be debtree?

>> December of next year.

>> Okay. And how much have you paid off so far? >> 83,000.

Is there tension with your partner relationally because you're always working? Is that why you brought this up? Like how do I help my partner? Give me more on that deal.

>> What don't they understand? >> Yeah, >> I pay obviously a lot towards my student loans. Like my whole check goes towards it and he doesn't understand why not just pay the minimum and just save the rest. >> Have you walked him through the why behind the baby steps?

Blame it on Ramsay and all of us. Oh, you rolled your eyes. That's not good. What happened there?

>> Be honest. >> He thinks it's a cult.

>> There we go.

>> You know, it's interesting. I've never heard that before.

>> Yeah. Well, I get it. Um,

and it's not our fault. It's the way you people act.

No, I'm kidding. That's terrible. I'm kidding. Uh, okay.

Well, you're not married, so he doesn't get a vote. You know, we we teach separate finances. So, that's that's a relational issue. And I think as you continue to get free, hopefully he begins to catch a vision for it.

I think the the thing that you have to do, and I want them to weigh in, I would just quickly say, um, I love the payoff date. I love the goal. I love the gazelle intensity, but you have to listen to your heart and you have to listen to your mind and you have to listen to your body.

intense person who's not worthy of the baby steps and you're not working if you have to dial it back a little bit. You know what I mean? Like it it is it is not about the length of time that we preach. It is about the intentionality that we preach.

And I we've done so many debtree screams where people have taken six and seven years. So, I think if you're starting to get to a place of physical and emotional and maybe spiritual and relationship exhaustion, dial it back a little bit, you know, until you can get back up on your feet. I I'm curious to know what you all think. >> Yeah.

Well, it's amazing what two months would do if you're like, "Okay, I'm not going to work extra for two months and give myself breathing room and then press play again, right?" and you're kind of this off and on if that's helpful or when you get to a certain dollar amount of debt payoff to say okay once I reach this once I reach 50,000 left I'm going to take a breather and I'm going to not work extra for 30 days 60 days and that's okay and then you press play again right because there's a level of a marathon you know we always say the average person pays off their consumer debt in 12 to 18 months is what we have found in all of our research but again that that plugs in people that pay off their consumer debt in eight years and that's people that just find us randomly and they have the money to pay off their debt and they're done within 30 minutes, right?

So, that span is really big. So, the people on the more marathon side to Ken's point, it's okay to take a to take a step back and just have a breather and still continue on your plan, but if you kind of put some of those rest periods in for you, for some people, they're like, "Oh gosh, I need a nice dinner out." And that's like a relief. Whatever that looks like for you to have that.

see that and be on board, but I want you to feel validated in your decisions. And so I don't want this to be a point of tension for you guys because you feel like you are working your butt off and no one sees you in it, right? When you have when you have a relationship and you have a a man in your life that could look at you and be cheering you on. So that's more of my problem.

I'd wish value-wise he lined up with you, but more of how he treats you in the process, I hope, is great.

>> I mean, you guys nailed it. The one thing I would do is just calculate and go, okay, I'm going to pay it off April of 28 instead of December of 27. If I

slow this down, and I think that'll help you realize, okay, it's an extra few months until I'm debtree, we're still going to celebrate you just as hard no matter what when you come do your debtree scream. So, I think release whatever pressure you've put on yourself to hit the self-imposed deadline. And that's coming from a guy who's probably the nerdiest and most intense. So, you're doing amazing. Keep it up. Way to go, Nora. Good job. >> Well done. Well done.

>> All right, so uh this is fun. We've got a write in question, and this came in from Dwayne. This is Dwayne's question.

At what point in our lives after 65

years of age, do we become self-insured?

Okay, so let's cover what they're talking about here for those that aren't aware or those watching at home. When we talk about term life insurance, it's to replace your income if something were to happen to you. for those that rely on your income. So that's a spouse, kids.

So what we talk about is getting 15 or 20 years in a term life policy so that after those 20 years are done, you've been following the baby steps, you've paid off your house, you've been investing for two decades, you have enough in your nest egg and savings where you're self-insured. Meaning the policy could end and you have enough to cover your family if something were to happen. So that's the simplest answer.

At what point in your lives are you selfinsured? when you could drop the policy and if you were to croak today, god forbid, your family would be just fine living off of your retirement accounts and savings.

>> All right, I love it. And so Xander, by the way, great place for people to go.

We had a young guy in the pre-show was asking about he's 34 years of age.

>> Yeah. He's saying, "I'm single. Do I need >> I'm single? Do I need insurance?" So, >> and I told him, "Go get a quote online because you'll find it's much cheaper when you're young and healthy and a lot of you know that as you get older and there's health conditions, it becomes more difficult and more expensive." And so this is something really affordable, especially compared to a trash insurance we call whole life, permanent life insurance.

Term life is a fraction of the cost. You want to aim for 10 to 12 times your annual income. And then your spouse, aim for 10 to 12 times their income. And if they're a stay-at-home spouse, you need at least a half million policy cuz you got to hire Mary Poppins to replace everything they do.

>> Yes. I would say even more for stay at home spouses. We say half a million, but depending on the age of your kids. Yeah, that's the baseline.

>> And your household expenses. >> That's right. Absolutely. So, and Xander is great because they go and shop multiple companies.

You're not just looking at one. And so, that's the one Winston and I use, but it's great because they price it out. You get to see the prices of everything. You get to pick it and it's it's wonderful.

So, it is so inexpensive. It's some of the saddest calls that we get on Ramsey show if someone has passed away, a spouse has and they call in and that spouse, you know, even if it was a stay-at-home parent, stay at home mom and she has to go back into the workforce because they they have nothing and she the kids and it's just it's just heartbreaking. So, >> and some people have it through their they have it through their employer and they go, "Well, I don't need it on my own." And I go, "How much is through your employer?" They go, "50,000." They go, "Well, that'll cover them for a year if they're lucky." You need 10 to 12 times your income, but it needs to be outside of your employer cuz your employment can change.

So, Xander.com is the place to go. >> That's with a Z for all of you and been around over 99 years. We've been with them for 30 years at Ramsey. Fantastic people.

Tell them we sent you. They'll take great care of you.

What does financial success look like for you? >> Not paying attention to the price of things. >> You look at the steak first, price second. Maybe I'll skip the appetizer and cocktail. Just stick to the ribeye.

>> Skip the appetizer. >> You've got enough saved for retirement.

You've got an emergency fund. Yeah.

Short short-term focus, but also having like the long-term vision of you don't want to run out of it and you want to be able to not work for the rest of your life. having peace of mind, having a retirement fund that will allow me and my family to have some fun at the end of the day and to kind of pass on generational wealth. >> No debt except for maybe the only debt I think you should probably carry is uh your mortgage. >> Are you there? >> Yes. >> How long you been consumer debtree?

>> 20 years. >> Yeah. >> To be able to have free time, not based

on my effort. >> So without you doing anything?

>> Yes. Free time. >> You you got all the time in the world. >> Yes. having enough to feed myself at the

end of the month. >> So, just satiated. So, low expectations.

That's the key to financial success.

>> Expectations on the floor. Yeah.

>> Wow. Okay. How about you?

>> You have to pretend that money isn't real. It's pretty impossible to live by yourself, but I think that success to me is being able to live on your own.

>> Being able to travel when you want and uh you know, being able to raise a family. I think those are two things that I value right now. the freedom to take a day off and not have to worry about, you know, do I have enough PTO?

Do I have enough saved up that I don't need to worry about anything? Can I go get my nails done? Can I have breakfast? That kind of thing. >> So, live your life. Take the day off and I go, I I can't miss that paycheck.

>> Yes. >> I want to know how many single people are. >> OH, THAT'S FUN. WHOA.

>> SHUT UP. OKAY. OKAY. NOW, I didn't expect this. Single people, stand up for a second. >> OH, BY THE WAY. Oh my goodness.

>> They're looking around. >> Look around. >> What is happening here? Hold. Well, I didn't say sit down.

>> Right here. Do you two know each other?

>> Just met tonight. Can I ask you a question, sir?

>> How old are you?

>> Yeah, it was a very clear question.

>> 58. You look fantastic, by the way.

Ma'am, I would never normally do this, but how old are you?

>> 56.

That's serendipitous. >> What else would you all like to ask?

>> What baby step are you on?

>> Got you got to >> You know what? The rest of you can sit down. Everybody else sit down. You two stay up. This is exciting.

>> Oh boy. >> All right. Are you a baby steps millionaire? >> Just hang with us. Are you're in baby steps seven?

You're in seven? OH MY GOSH.

>> Here's what that means. They don't need each other's money. >> They don't need each OTHER JUST GOING BIGGER. >> THIS IS WHAT WE CALL an even playing ground. >> How would you I'm just This is getting the next level. This is exciting. How would you describe your personality? Be brief.

>> Fun and energetic and Yeah. Easygoing.

Okay. >> Excuse me. How would you describe your personality? >> Type a boring seduc.

>> Yes. Yes. >> I like that. I like that.

>> Are you Are you okay if I do just a couple more fun prying questions?

>> Uh, how long have you been single?

>> Quite a while.

How long have you been single? >> About 20 years. >> Oh my gosh. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'll stop because I'm getting I've been married 28 years. So, I'm feeling something here and I need to obey it. If you guys want to go out,

if you want to, I'm not even going to make you say anything more, but if you guys, you know, talk amongst yourselves during the show, if you want to go out,

Ramsay Solutions will pay for your first date.

>> Love it.

>> All right, you can be seated. This is great. >> Well done.

>> Yeah. Okay, so uh you all are asking us

questions throughout the night and we love that. But we thought it would be fun. We were talking with the team.

We're talking amongst ourselves. We thought, what if we flip the script a little bit and we ask you all some questions? So this is like, you know, we're going to see what you all think about some stuff. You guys up for that?

>> Okay. Now, this is for the brave people, right? We're looking for the big personalities who are willing to share some stuff with us. Okay. Uh, so >> and you'll just yell it out from your seat. That way you go up my mic.

>> And so we're going to have to be patient with each other as you yell out. So >> raise your hand. We'll call on you. >> So we're going to start with a fun one.

What's the dumbest thing you have ever

done with money? Who wants to share a dumb thing right here? All right. So sir, stand up and project. No, no, no, no, no. Stay there. You're not coming up here. We have security. You'll get tased. >> Just >> No. Just you're going to yell out to approach. >> All right. Go ahead. Snapple.

>> Snap tools. >> Snap-on tools. I thought he said Snapple. Like >> so did I. I was like that's a rather refreshing beverage. >> Like how much money did you blow on Snapple? >> Soapon. >> What what what was dumb about Snap-On?

>> Uh start now. Obviously I had no tools starting out when I was 16. And my from 16 to now I had probably $50,000 in

debt. >> How old are you now? >> 22. So, 16 to 22, you dropped 50 grand

on these Snap-On tools, and you're you're still in debt. >> Uh, I'm close to being paid off.

>> Nice. >> Close to being paid off. Love to hear that. Thank you, sir, for sharing your dumb, but you're about to pay the tools off. And are you making good money with said tools? >> Uh, yeah. >> How much? >> I'm 31 an hour right now.

>> $31 an hour. >> It's like 64 grand or so.

>> Some $1,000.

>> And what do you do?

>> Diesel mechanic. Diesel missile mechanic. Are you single?

>> Girlfriend. >> Girlfriend. >> Oh, there she is. >> Taken, ladies. >> He's taken. >> All right. Okay. Thank you, sir. That's good. >> Who else has got a Do we want another one of those? We got several. One. We got one up front. >> I was debtree and then last year I went into $22,000 worth of debt for ex-boyfriend because

>> Yeah. Just dumb >> for an ex-boyfriend. >> Houses that he was trying to >> We need a story. >> This feels like a mic situation. Oh, go to the mic. >> This requires This requires followup right here, ma'am. He's coming to you.

We're We're going to We'll figure it out. >> I'll bring it to you. >> Such service. Do you all mind passing the mic? >> Okay.

So, so let me set this up. She was debtree >> and then she gets with a deadbeat guy.

>> I probably got emotional like three times since being here cuz I'm just thinking about how like I don't know talking to a therapist or like I made a mistake. It was expensive one. You move forward. But long story short, debtree boyfriend last year had a really good job making like 15,000 a month and lost

my job. Um, and it was because of our

relationship and took out $22,000 worth of debt to help him. I mean, I remember the first thing was like he needed me to buy a refrigerator for one of his homes.

Like >> one of his homes plural, >> but he was too broke to afford >> three of them. in because I said he has

a real bad addiction problem and >> and I was just trying to help him. Well, not help him with the thing, but help him through the addiction because he made so much money. He would make like >> 14 20,000 a week and just spend it between like drugs, gambling.

>> Oh my gosh, I'm so sad. >> I'm glad you're not with him. >> Yeah. So I got so much. Yeah, it's over.

And I'm just like, >> are you working to pay off the debt or you do you still have >> I So because so I worked at the casino.

Um I hadn't worked in 6 months and I still been knocking out debt and stuff like that. And um so hopefully I just talked to my old managers and hopefully for the summer the kids um when the kids get out of school I go back. That's my goal just to get back on track. But >> girl, we're cheering you on. >> Can I tell you something? >> Yeah. You've done it before. How much debt did you pay off the first time?

>> I paid off uh 20,000. So, >> okay. So, what's 2,000 more? You got this. >> It's just like you >> got guilt and shame and the baggage of it. >> Disappoint. Yeah. Because I'm like, wow.

I was just right there and just ready to just >> It's okay. >> And I was making a I I think like decent amount of money and I loved my job. And so, it's just like, >> hey, listen. No more shame tonight.

>> So, >> hey, look at me. No more shame. No more

shame. You're a good person >> who loved a guy and you got sucked into a tough situation and you've learned from it. You paid off 22 of 20 before

you can pay off the 22. Everybody in this room is completely behind you. Are you guys behind her?

>> Yeah. >> You got this. Good job.

>> All right. Do we have another fun question? George, do you have a a flip the script question? >> Yeah.

I want uh there's some there's some crazy people out here. So, here's what I want to know. What is the craziest thing you've done to pay off debt? the thing that you would tell someone and they're like, "I'm sorry.

You did what now?" >> Now, keep it family friendly. We're a family show. We got to be able to air this on YouTube. >> Yeah.

>> But I want to know what's something you did that other people would kind of had a have a head tilt at. Anyone sell a horse?

>> Yeah. It could be what you sold, what you did lifestylewise, maybe side hustle, side hustle, something sacrifice. >> Raise your hand right back here, sir. We have a >> stand up and just stand up and >> stand up and give us real loud like big old voice. uh took care of somebody else's horses before and after work.

>> Yeah. >> Let's go. >> So, you were a horse babysitter?

>> That's amazing. All right. That's okay.

That's pretty good. Anybody Any crazy like wacky stories of getting out of debt? You did something to pay off debt. >> There was a girl we talked to and she would do all of her she would blow dry her hair in her apartment hallway so she'd have to pay for utilities. >> Plug it into the hallway.

>> Like things like that. Anything crazy.

>> Making your own soaps.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I got one. We need a little We need to introduce a little more tension into this room.

>> Oh boy. >> Give us a argument that you had about money with your spouse or your partner.

Anybody got the What's the last argument you had over money?

>> Look at everybody clamming up. Anybody

>> right here? We got one. Oh, I like I see that hand. Sir, >> is the spouse here? >> Yeah. Hold on. We're getting the mic. I feel I got a feeling. Are you guys together? Are you guys together there?

>> What was the argument?

combining finances >> and >> did you want to or not to, sir?

>> I'm wanting to. Uh >> oh. >> Wanting? Oh, >> present tense. Sounds like the argument hasn't been settled. Or maybe it has been settled.

>> But ma'am, >> go ahead. >> Stands to be corrected. >> Ma'am, what's the story?

>> Ma'am, I see you.

>> You know we can see you, right? She thinks that the post is hiding her.

I'm going to step out here. Go ahead.

Put the mic over there. >> She said no.

>> No to the mic. >> Yeah, >> that is your right, ma'am. Thank you very much. All right.

>> Well, sir, based on that response,

I don't like your situation.

You're going to have to keep casting vision. Okay. So, let's bring this back.

We get this call a lot on the show and we're having a little fun with you, ma'am. You're a great sport. But this is a real tension. We get the call all the time. Let's talk about the dynamic.

what's going on? We don't need to know their situation, but we kind of know what's going on. This is a big deal.

George, Rachel, why what's happening here? >> I found there's several reasons for it.

And usually the person who wants to combine hasn't done a good enough job asking questions to dig into those reasons for them to feel seen and heard to go, "Oh, I actually understand why you feel that way. the way you grew up, it was scarcity or there was trauma or there was a divorce and my parent or friend wasn't safe because they had combined finances and it put them in a precarious situation. The more you can ask questions and dig, the more you can get to some empathy and understanding.

And then they need to be asking you about why are you wanting to combine finances? What is the upside here? And there there's a give and take there. It's a dance and it usually takes people a while to get there.

It's not a single conversation. And I think what's hard too is when people hear combine finances, they're thinking just the numbers, the tactical side of we're going to combine accounts and do a budget together and that's it. And they miss the real benefit of it. Like when you really do when you combine finances, you are combining on so much of your life.

yielding with this person that I've chosen to spend my life with and I'm going to choose to do this part of my life that kind of feels vulnerable. Especially if you get married later, which I understand that you're used to paying bills the way you know the way you pay them. You do your budget the way you do it. I mean, it's just you are you have your thing and then this other person comes in and it's so different.

It's so hard. You're like, gosh, it would just be easier if we just were still on two separate tracks and I still love you and it's fine. But what you miss is that connection point that happens from a vulnerable standpoint to say, "No, I really am combining every part of me in this this place that feels so scary. I'm actually going to say, yeah, we are going to become one." And it's amazing to me how many especially debtree couples we get and they say constantly how their marriage is better.

They're like you you know you saved our marriage and we're thinking we didn't teach a marriage class right like this wasn't what we were talking about. We're talking about money but money is a very very vulnerable place and it's a very revealing place in our lives. Like even when you look through scripture you know what the Bible says about it. Like it it's it speaks so much to who you are as a person.

>> Tactically, it's a wealth multiplier when you combine finances and you're going to the same direction instead of going, "Well, that's her money and I don't know what she's got going on. That's her business." Well, that's where a lot of this financial infidelity happens versus the transparency which causes you to feel more connected which causes you to build trust which is the foundation of a relationship. And so I would encourage anyone to try it unless you have good reason not to and we've had those calls.

>> Addiction is seriously addiction. Keep it separate. >> If there Yes, there are some big red flags in a relationship that it is not safe for you to and we totally understand that. Uh but for the other run-of-the-mill couples, yeah, do it.

I'm reminded about how much fun it is to be in the room with people when we're in the show and in the studio in Nashville.

We don't get to see and this is so much fun. I just want to take a quick moment.

We can't do the Ramsay Show live tour without our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union. They're so awesome. Such a great partner for the Ramsey Show. So, I just want to say thanks to whatever nameless executive gave us the green light for this. We're very thankful for that. So, give them some love. Love Fairwinds.

They're awesome organization. Up next, Roxan and Luke are coming to the mic.

There they are.

>> So, hi folks. How are you?

>> We're doing great. We're from Concord, North Carolina, just north of here.

>> The home of NASCAR. >> That's right. >> I know these things. Rachel, did you know that? >> I did not. Ken, >> thank you. You know what else she didn't know? That Charlotte's the queen city. I had to tell her that, too.

>> Ken is like our old man

was with us. >> Okay. He always on the Ramsey show he's

like from the Motor City Detroit we've got Allan calling from the big apple

Jason's he loves it. So he's like the Queen City. >> I do I do love a good I love a little uh historical reference. >> We're going off. All right. We are here for you. >> Back to our friends from Concord. What's your question? >> All right. So this is my 18-year-old son Luke. He'll be graduating high school in just about six weeks. >> All right, Luke.

And my question is, as a parent, how do you steward your growing children well

without micromanaging their disposable income? And just a tiny bit of context, we are huge Ramsay fans. Um, Luke has been working since he was 14. And our rule from paycheck one was you save 50%,

you can spend 40% and you give 10%. So

he has a lot of disposable income. And I feel like he makes purchases that from my perspective are excessive and yet I

don't want to micromanage him as his mom. >> Yeah. Well, you kind of sort of answered your question in that last statement.

Uh you are a mature, successful adult who happens to be his mom. He is an 18-year-old boy with God bless you, your

frontal lobe is still developing.

>> Yeah. >> And he appreciates that. So, I I think that from my perspective is the part where you're going to have to release a little bit. Now, I I'm going to tell you how I I've got three. I've got a 20-year-old in college in Chicago who literally can't keep money in his account longer than 17 seconds.

And then I've got a middle son who has

three grand in his account and won't spend it on anything.

>> Uh and then I have a daughter who's 17 who's just like the 20-year-old. So, one

of the things that I've had to just as a dad to learn is I can teach, I can show

and model, and then I can console when

they're broke.

And and so my my oldest and my youngest

I and and this is not my wife's natural

path. She wants to do what you're doing.

How can I help control and do all this kind of stuff? And it's really wonderful. But I have found that my 20-year-old is beginning to learn the value of money because of the allocated money he gets versus his job, his part-time job. And when he's broke and he calls me, I just go, "Man, that stinks, buddy.

>> Good point." >> And now it's kind of a joke. And at first it made him mad. Now he kind of gets it. And now the calls aren't even coming in. And uh he is finding a way.

And uh so I think in some ways you've

done a wonderful job and you got to let that young man figure it out. And I think the best teacher in life is failure.

>> Luke, I'm curious. What said expenses,

purchases are you buying that your mom would say is excessive?

>> Like an iPad or a cologne,

>> headphones? Depends.

>> Anything. Is that within the 40% that's kind of allocated here? Step up to the mic. >> Can you get closer to the mic, Luke? >> Yeah, that's in the 40%. Yes.

>> Mom, what do you want him to do with the instead of the iPad and the cologne?

Those don't seem outrageous to me.

>> No, the the iPad,

>> he gets it. >> Yeah, >> Ken loves a cologne. >> I like to smell good. I'm not going to lie to you. >> Yeah. Well, it's like I would not spend as much on perfume or cologne as as he

did. and it brought him great joy. But I was thinking, "Oh, that's a lot of money." And certain we had different upbringings. I grew up with very, very little and I've done pretty well for him. I I think the deeper concern I have is I don't want him to be purchasing those items to impress others. And what

I sometimes hear, and he's such a great kid, is, "Hey, I just got this clone and here's how much it costs." as he's talking to his friends. And I'm like, if you love it and you want it, then purchase it, but not for the praise or

the affirmation from others. And I think that's very fair because that is a that is a contentment loop that only though

can be broken by you, Luke.

>> I mean, honestly, it that's something that can't be learned up here. That's something that's going to have to happen. So, I'm a spender like you, so I

feel you. So a question I ask myself a

lot is before I make this purchase I

think if nobody sees this purchase do I

still want it?

So the idea of how much of my motivation is for others or for affirmation, whatever the thing is, but if nobody was to see it, how much of this is just for me, because back to our point of like rolling the eyes of like the kids' birthday party or whatever it may be, right? People are going to value different things and people are going to say, "Oh my gosh, I would never spend X on a car. I would never spend X on per like and that's it's not immoral, but that's people what they value." And that's not necessarily wrong.

But if there is a belief that this thing is going to make me happy or what I get from it, if I impress someone with the price tag, right, with that example she just used, yeah, you'll be a rat in a wheel for the rest of your life running and getting nowhere. And if the newness of stuff is what funds your happiness, again, there will be deep discontentment for the rest of your life and you'll be chasing the wrong thing and the finish line keeps moving. You think if I just could have this, I can get that or if it moves this way, you know, I got to I got to catch up to this.

So that's something though that I think is learned through life experience. I hate to say it, but I think that's a spiritual exercise more than anything.

if you actually invested some of this money, what that turns into is is pretty

astronomical. And I know you're already saving a lot, Luke, which is great. >> Yeah. Where are you saving exactly? All right. Is it in a savings account?

>> Savings account. Yeah. >> Okay. >> What is your what's your uh your end game here? Are you wanting to to build wealth and have some autonomy and freedom as a young man?

>> Yes, absolutely. >> And do you see investing as a path to get there? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Well, let's crunch the numbers for you here. You're a young man, 18. You got all the time in the world on your side.

And you have time to fail. You got time to make the mistakes. But if you just went, "Hey, you know what? What if I instead of buying that next doodad, I instead put that in a Roth IRA cuz you're earning income." >> Have you done that before? >> I have not. No. >> All right. I'm going to show you using our investment calculator. >> Can we do his real numbers? >> I'm going to use your real number if you're willing to give it to me. >> Like savings or what?

>> Yeah. So, you have nothing in retirement now and no investment accounts. How much can you put away a month into investing?

>> I don't I don't know the exact number on that. >> Can you put 500 bucks away?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> That seemed like a low number to you. You were like, "Absolutely. That's nothing." >> Well, hold on a second. Hold up. Mom is kind of going um I'm not sure. Well, well, what I would say is the the big purchase that will be coming soon is a car, and we're going to do 50/50. And we've talked about it won't be a brand new car. And there's, you know, there's reason because he he has $15,000 saved.

>> Wow. >> He's not. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> But he's not getting he's not getting a $30,000 car to start. So, I think he

would need to I I think probably about $200 to $300 a month would be good because it would be coming from his disposable income because he's also going to be going to college. >> Yeah. He's got short-term goals, too.

So, George, split the difference. 250.

>> We're going to go 250 from age 18 to age, let's say, 60. All right. That's like an early retirement for most of America. 18 to 60, you put 250 bucks away into a Roth IRA and make that on auto to where you never saw the money.

It left your account when that paycheck hit. you don't have time to spend it.

Here's what you'd have almost $2 million

in that one account at 60 if you just did that. That's if you never got a raise, never put in more than that. And that's tax-free withdrawals if it's in a Roth side cuz you used after tax income to invest it. So that's like take-home pay. Think about it that way. >> Yeah, >> that's a pretty good life at 60 without

really doing much. You sort of had it on auto and 250 bucks for you is a drop in the bucket with your with the money you're already making at 18. >> Mhm. Think about how good you're going to smell then. >> Oh yeah, >> you can have your own cologne company by then. >> Yeah, >> just rub money all over your face. >> I think you got to you got to think about the opportunity cost a little bit.

Again, you're 18. I spent every one of my paychecks at 18. So, he's doing astronomically well. So, I think it's less about his spending issues.

Yes, we need to dig into the motive and contentment, but I think mom, there's some control issues. There's some scarcity stuff that you might need to unpack, too. So, I think there's work on both of your parts to sort of get to the consensus that he's fine. He's doing better than most adults in America.

I'm much less worried about him. >> And mom, you have done a great job with this young man. Give them >> Absolutely. You guys are awesome.

Great job.

Up next, we've got Bailey. Let's welcome Bailey to the mic.

>> Hi, Bailey. >> Hi. >> Where you from? >> Charlotte. >> Charlotte. All right. What's your question? Um, my question is, do you think it's good to invest in real estate now or should I wait until it goes down further?

>> Till it goes down further?

>> Yeah. Like if like price like if the market goes down further. >> What What uh evidence are you seeing that that's going to happen?

>> Um, I'm not I'm just wondering your opinion. >> Yeah. No, no, I'm not Yeah, I'm not trying to hang you up on that. I just wanted to know if like you were reading something or what you're sourcing to feel that way. I don't think that that's going to happen. You know, you might have some bubbles in certain areas, but by and large, how old are you?

>> Um, I'm like student age.

>> Great. >> Yeah, >> that's a range. >> I love that. >> You should run for Congress with that answer.

>> I'll vote for you.

>> Somewhere between seven and 22.

>> I'm I'm student age. Okay.

>> George, what do you thought? Rachel, what do you think? Real estate. Your husband is Mr. Real Estate.

>> Yeah. I want to know from you. Where have you heard this that you think, "Oh, this this is a really good plan and I need to do this." >> My parents and some of my teachers in school. >> Interesting. >> Are you college or high school?

>> Um, high school. >> High school. Okay, great. Good for you.

>> So, where's the urgency coming from for you to own real estate?

>> Um, no. I'm just trying to like I'm just curious about the topic and I'm trying to plan ahead. >> Okay. I love that. So, really some learning. Okay. So, we always say to invest in real estate when you're on baby step seven, which means you are completely debtree, including your primary residence, completely debtree.

You're you're investing into retirement, 401ks, Roth IAS. You're being smart about retirement from that perspective, 15%. And then above that, you can be

investing more in baby step seven. And some people choose to invest more in the market. They'll have like a brokerage account or a index fund or a mutual fund that they'll put their money in. Some people put their money in real estate.

And so the key about real estate investing specifically, so there's the flip side and then there's the buy and hold. And the buy and hold strategy is that you want to buy low. So you'd find a short sale or a foreclosure, put some cash in it, all with cash. So we are all cash at this point. And then you hold it. And you hold it for 20 plus years.

And then when your kids are graduating high school and going to college, you got to fund college. That's when some people cash out. they take that equity, fund their life, do what they want with it, or they keep it generationally, whatever that looks like. And then there's the flip side.

And the flip side is again, you buy something really inexpensive, uh, that's really inexpensive, and you put some cash into it, fix it up, sell it for a little bit more. That's a little bit more of a job, I would say. That's more of a part-time job people have versus the holding and the the hold strategy, if you will. So, there's kind of two ways to do it, but that would be after Yes.

I would say after you're out of if you're going to college or trade school, after all that's paid for, after uh you have a primary home for yourself and that's paid off and all of it. But it is a great strategy. It is later in the steps for us, but >> it's a great >> Please ignore all the social media trends that are like you need to own 19 properties by the time you're 25 and here's why and here's a course to sell you on it. Avoid all of that noise out there >> and the noise that it's just passive income.

You don't have to do anything. It's not a big deal. You just do it and then you get money. No, you don't.

deal with people. You deal with renters.

You deal with contract. You are in it.

It's not just passive. And honestly, you

don't make as much as quick as you would sometimes even in the market. The real estate market and the stock market sometimes are at odds with each other.

So sometimes you can make as much just investing and not doing anything versus

putting all your effort into real estate. But I come from a real estate family. My husband loves it. My dad loves it. So, I am I love I do love real estate, but sometimes it could just be easier just to invest to be honest.

That's what George loves. George loves >> I have no plans on owning investment property. No, thank you. I can't be a landlord. Look at me. Who's going to take me seriously? >> Well, you're certainly not going to be able to kick anybody out of their house.

>> They could take me in a fight, but it's a great question. I love your thinking about this stuff. >> Well done. The future's bright. Thank you.

Our next question is brought to you by our friends at Y Refi. If any of you out there are watching uh on YouTube and listening uh if you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress is stalled out. We get it. But this is where Y refi comes in. We love our partnership with them because they help borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. Learn more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

George, how do we spell it? >> That's the letter Y. R E FY.com/

Ramsey. >> May not be available in all states. How about that? George Camel, everybody, ladies and gentle. >> Yeah. Well, there it is. They don't even want to clap for you. They're so used to you doing it. >> They're impressed that I can spell a fiveletter word. >> Yeah. Cheap applause. Cheap applause.

Uh, up next, our next question is brought to you by Yi. Where's Megan?

Let's welcome Megan to the mic.

>> There we go.

>> Hi, Megan. Hey, >> where are you from? >> I'm from Shelby, North Carolina.

>> Shelby, North Carolina. What's your question? >> So, I have an opportunity to pay off $30,000 in debt by working two jobs

for like 10 to 12 months and I can get

it all paid off. But I am a single mother of two boys.

So, I'm trying to weigh if it's worth it to pay it off in that short of a span of time or if I should try to spread it

out. >> What is your concern? Is it the boys and being with them? >> Yes. >> How old are they? >> 8 and 11. >> Who would watch them when you're working and hustling? >> My mama. >> Your mama? >> Yes. >> So, they would be in tremendous care.

Yes or no? >> Yes. >> Extra grandma time? >> Yes.

>> They're They're not concerned with it, but I'm cons I'm I'm concerned that they

won't express that it's bothering them that I'm not around.

>> Yeah. Have you explained to them that you're in a journey to pay off debt?

Have you had that conversation? Obviously, in context with an 8-year-old and 11-y old. >> Yes, I have. But I don't really think they understand the gravity of it.

>> Yeah. Well, if you're not around as much, they might start to pay attention to it. >> Yes. >> I'm going to say it's your call.

But if it were me, I think there's an awesome story in it. And I think if those eight-year-old boy, that eight-year-old boy and 11-y old boy see mama working so hard and they begin to see that mom is tired. Mama, why are you working so hard for you?

>> I'm explaining what I'm doing. And it may not all completely stick, but I think that that intense timeline will take you to another level as a single mom cuz you're a hero. And I say go for it. The boys are going to be fine. They don't appreciate time like you do. And I do think your mama heart is going to be the hardest part of it. and being bone tired. But I I'd vote for do it for the

story. You know what I mean? It's like

the ch the things that we press through and the things that that uh shape us are

the things that are really hard. And but I think you're I think whatever you decide to do, you know, I'm in favor of.

That's my that's my thought. What do you all think, Rachel? What do you think? >> I mean, I would say number one, you Ken said it, but you're incredible. any single parents that do this, it's that is unbelievable what you do day in and day out. So, hear us say that it is such a feat to raise kids and at those ages.

Those are exactly I have kids the exact ages >> and it's just so I'm exhausted. You know what I mean? And and to do it day in and day out by yourself. You're incredible.

Absolutely incredible. So, they're seeing that. Yes. Give a round of applause. Honestly, it's

>> I I think there's a much higher chance the story they tell when they're older is my mom worked her tail off for our family and not my mom wasn't around when we were kids. >> Yeah. And I would say it's going to affect you. You already said it. You said it yourself. It's going to affect you more than it affects them. I mean, honestly, I and I I mean, my my dad,

which I know is a different situation, but I mean, he he was gone a lot. I

mean, up until I was probably middle school, building and doing and teaching and traveling and working. I mean, it was it was constant. And I remember to a point that he sat us all down because he was going on a on a book tour for the first book. And I remember he sat us down and it was this big family meeting

and it was so heavy and he was like, I'm going to be gone and I think it was uh like close to 45 days to do a big book tour. And I'll be honest, I remember thinking, okay,

like, okay. Uh, so it's not that they don't care about you, but genuinely, I think if they're with someone that they love, um, it's going to just it's going to be harder. It's going to be hardest on you. So, I think, um, if you can get through it, I would for 10 months. If you were saying 10 years, I'd be like, "No, for 10 months, I think you can do anything." And and forever, ever. Amen.

The weight of debt, those chain, it's gone. the chains, it's gone completely and you have changed your family tree.

When we talk about changing your family tree, that's it. They're not only watching it, but they're going to experience a freedom from their mom that you're about to give them. And it's it's going to it's going to completely affect their life. And I think there's something about that intensity and you just knock it out in 10 months. I I would say do it. But I also say with as a mom, you make the best call for you.

Yeah. >> In that. >> Okay. >> Megan, we got a fun little award for you. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, you come on down. I'm going to tell the audience what we're giving you. We're giving you the rice and beans award right here. It's real.

This is a a glass Tupperware. Real rice,

real beans. Haven't been cooked yet. So, you just you just give those to the boys and you explain what you're doing.

It's your favorite.

>> Rice and beans. >> Rice and beans is my favorite.

>> You were made for this. I had no idea.

Hey, just a single mama bear who's crushing it. Let her know how we feel about her. Let's go.

>> Yeah.

How about that? >> That's so good.

>> Who knew that the rice and beans award was going to go to her? And she >> I wish I had something better. Something more bougie for you, girl. >> Well, now I wish I had cooked them.

>> I know. So, she would have to cook them.

>> I didn't cook them.

>> So fun. Okay, next uh next question is

from Raquel. Raquel, where are you? Come

on down. Oh, right over here. Give her some love while she gets to the mic.

>> I got to say the ladies are leading the charge tonight. >> Where are the men?

>> Where are the men asking questions? By the way, another reminder. Are there any couples that need this esteemed panel of judges to get in the middle of something? >> Go see Katie. She's waiting. Raquel. Hi.

>> Hi. >> How are you? >> I'm good. Thank you. Where you from?

>> So, me and my fiance are recently engaged and we just moved up from West Palm Beach, Florida here to Charlotte.

>> Okay. Fantastic. What's your question?

So my question is um in this new journey that we have together, moving together, being engaged um the conversation of finances have definitely come up. Um so

we grew up drastically different. Um opposites definitely attract and um my relationship with money just in regards to what my family is like is

very drastic than what his family is like and what he's used to and was exposed to. And I think that a lot of people that I talk to in my day-to-day life have the same type of um reservations when it comes to money in that talk in general. So I guess my question is layered. Um what would you say would be something that we can actively do to align our thoughts about money and what would you um give as in

advice to new couples trying to start their life together? >> Okay. So, let me ask what's how did he grow up? Paint me a picture of him and then you so we can kind of see what we're working with. >> Yes. So, um my family um I come from an

immigrant household. I grew up in Florida. Um and you know, my mom was

very good with money with what she had.

She was very good with budgeting. But on the other side, I had a grandma and a family on my dad's side who made a lot of money but did not do well managing it. So, I had really opposite sides of the spectrum when it came to how they handled their finances. Um, and a lot of misguidance. I'm not going to lie. Um,

his family, however, they grew up in um, Columbus, Georgia. Um, a stay-at-home mom with a hardworking dad. And um he

from what I understand um their family um saved a lot of money, always had something in the emergency fund, budgeted really hard, but still gave themselves like those little luxuries of like Thanksgiving vacation and and things like that. So, but they were always financially conscious if >> Okay. So, what's the tension point then?

What what do you feel like is is that point of tension? >> Yeah. Um there's no tension per se. It's just it's just like a mindset thing for me. Like I I guess I had more

>> scarcity, would you say, for you? >> Yes. Yes, that's exactly what it is. Yes. >> More scarcity. He's more abundance.

>> You're more probably No, I I don't want to say stress. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're you're very aware. Know what's going on. And he's like, "It's going to be okay. We're fine." >> No. >> Okay. So, okay. So, tell me. So, give me give me more. >> He has a scarcity mindset. And that's

exactly so because of the way that I grew up, I guess. I don't really know like what's a good point like how much

is too much frugality and and how much is like too much overspending. So I'm still in my personal finance journey trying to figure out what a happy medium is. >> So you're kind of an agnostic and then he you're just kind of like I'm not sure about this whole money thing and he's just like tight. So tight he squeaks.

>> Yes. He's he it's very different our our

dynamic. Like I um I want to give ourselves a little luxuries in life, but he would definitely squeal over the $2 Chipotle guac.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Guac. That's >> Boy, I feel like we got to bring the tightest person I know in the conversation, George Campbell.

>> Welcome to the party, my man. >> This guy won't pay two bucks for anything. >> I just think it's a ripoff. I'd rather go make guacamole at home at that time.

>> You That was a flex. You just wanted everybody to know that you know how to make guac. >> I don't, but I could if I wanted to.

>> So, okay. So, speak speak to her from

his perspective cuz you get that.

>> Yeah. My wife to this day is like, "Hey, man. Can we not do this frugal game right now to save a buck?" But it's just it's a I find it enjoyable for me. So, I

don't bring her into it. It's, you know, none of her business. She's saving money. She should be happy. But, I do think there's a there's a level of this is their personality style and that part won't change. And then there's an alignment on the values and goals and that's the part you guys need to focus on not the minutia of hey he wants to be

frugal in this area. Now the more it affects you and the more it's detached from the reality of your financial situation. If you guys are multi-millionaires and he's like we can't afford this that's a different situation than hey I'd rather not spend money on that. That's not a priority for me but you can get the guac.

>> That's where I'm going. Okay, that's where we need to get to as you guys step into marriage is being aligned with the values and the goals and over time you will be doing better financially. So right now he may have good reason to have a scarcity mindset because he doesn't have his family's money. >> Right.

>> Right. He's starting a new chapter for on his own. >> Here's what I'm feeling. I just want to throw this in there.

>> Yeah. >> Because you love him >> because you guys are going to do life together. I think it'd be great to lean into him a little bit for a while.

>> Yeah. >> And kind of go, okay, and then the the easiest way, and George, I want you to weigh in and Rachel, too, but I'm sitting here listening going, I think it would be great if you really got serious about budgeting >> because the more clear and disciplined your budget is, if you want the $2 guac, and he goes because of how he's wired in

the environment that he grew up in, which is all real and totally okay.

>> Yes. >> Then you have a budget. you can remind him, hey, >> it's totally in there. Am I right? Let's

>> say yes, absolutely. Cuz I think there's the the highle tactical which may just take care of itself, honestly. So, since you guys are engaged, I would open up a checking account together, and I would put some money in for the wedding, some expenses coming up, and you guys start to practice. What does this feel like >> to start doing money together? And do a mock budget of both of your salaries.

You know what you make, and you guys are going to So, be like, "Hey, let's just for fun, let's make a household budget.

what this is going to look like. Here's mine. Here's yours. And like play a game, bring them both together and be like, how close are we at with this?

Um because that's going to say that's going to from a high level honestly may actually eliminate some of this when you guys are working together on a plan and you're being very specific about where the income's going. So that's big. And then number two, I would say because opposites attract and I know this in my marriage, Ken, same same with you and Whitney.

>> So, you're both a gift. You both bring something to the table that the other person needs. >> So, I always say with Winston, if it weren't for Winston, we'd I would probably be broke >> because he is he's so big on the saving and and Excel sheets. But honestly, I look at that now as a wife and I'm so thankful.

>> Exactly. >> I bring the fun. That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? I bring the fun. And so I feel like we're a lot alike. Um >> as a token of friendship to my new friend over here, I have an award for him if >> I have an award for her. >> This is perfect. Oh my goodness. Okay. Ladies first. Go ahead, Rachel.

>> Okay. I'm going to give you my award as you're a free spirit. You're like me.

>> A thank you.

>> Yes. Yes, it is. >> I'm going to give you a little a little bottle of champs.

>> A little champagne bottle. And we're going to give it to both her for both of them. So George, you get one of the same one for >> All right. I have for your fiance the

frugal camel award.

>> I got this from Goodwill. So she know I didn't even spend full price on this.

>> So give this to him tonight >> as a reminder that it's okay to be a little bit uh you know resourceful with your money. >> As I say, I like how you uh glammed

cheap up. I just I wanted the people to know. >> I I appreciate that. >> I wouldn't have bought that on my own valition. >> I know you would not have Oh, he would have never paid for that. >> Good money for that. >> He would have a tried to barter for it and then ask Ramsay Solutions to pay for it. That's how that went down.

>> Thank you again. >> Yeah, you're awesome. Give her some love. That's for sharing. >> Congrats. >> Now, >> I think we have a couple, Ken, by the way. >> Well, I'm excited. But before we go to our next question, I one of my favorite things in a live audience is I like to scan the crowd. just get a feel what's happening. And I noticed that our single

friend next to you, sir, has left her seat. >> Oh.

>> Oh, she's up to ask a question.

>> Rachel's helping me out. I thought, what did you do?

>> Did you like swing an arm around and it got uncomfortable? >> I mean, I practically set the table for you. So, okay, things are good. THERE SHE IS. IT'S GRACE, OUR SINGLE FRIEND FROM THE FRONT ROW. GRACE,

>> thank you guys for coming to Charlotte to come to us so that we can ask the questions. >> You're such a good sport by the way.

>> Oh, thank you. Um, my question is how to

let the gazelle rest. I started this

journey back in 2016 on when Dave was here for a smart money tour. I was one of the volunteers and that's when I got

got really sucked into the cult. I drank Kool-Aid. So I was gazelle gazelle intense for about five to six years.

Finally got out of debt. So I I got to

zero. I was not in the negative anymore.

I finally got to zero. I switched careers and cash flowed a electrical degree. And then now that I am working in having so much fun with what I do as my career, the gazelle is is still running. I I do not

spend money and I look for coupons. If I go to a 7-Eleven and the soda pop is $19, I won't pay for it cuz I won't pay more than 99 cent.

I It's too I've gone too far that way.

>> Wish I had an extra frugal camel for you back here.

One question too late. Uh so let me dig

on that. So let's just for everybody know what what's your future look like financially? Your your retirement, you're all set. You look beautiful.

Don't have anything to worry about. Is that correct? >> Yes, I'm retired military. Okay.

>> So, that's always there. >> By the way, thank you for your service. You're a great

>> And then I have uh I'm back to work cuz I just love it so much. But it all goes 100% goes into the um 401k, 457b, HSA,

IRA. >> What are you worried about? What are you worried about from your past financially

that that that worries you? Cuz I think at the source of this is fear.

>> It is. >> I know. What is it? What are you afraid that's going to happen? Be as specific as you can. And there's zero judgment on what you're about to say. Just let it rip. What are you afraid of?

>> That I will end up as my mother.

>> Oh, there it is. Describe how your mom

ended up.

>> We grew up on a farm, you know, three channels, no cable. Um, so we thought we were very poor. Um but then in the 80s and 90s the advent of housing developments um we kind of realized that we weren't poor. Mom just liked to sew. She liked to cook from scratch. Uh but after my

mom and dad divorced, she didn't have a lot of money. Uh but she didn't aspire to a lot either. She was very simple woman. But when she got cancer,

you don't want to send anybody to a facility that takes Medicaid.

Um, so I moved in with her to be her caregiver.

>> So you don't want to end up as a financial burden to somebody.

>> Exactly. I don't want to end up like that. >> What would have to be true based on your

financial situation right now? What would have to happen for you to be a financial burden in your old age?

What would have to happen >> for me to be a financial burden?

>> You're not right now. You're not going to be. So, I'm saying, what would have to happen for you to have no money to

take care of yourself and someone else?

What would you have to do? >> I'd have to crypto.

>> Yeah.

What are the And and and sure that's

great. And what else? What else would you have to do? >> Gamble. >> Gamble. I like that. >> Have to deplete all of your investment accounts completely.

>> Yeah, you'd have to do that, right?

>> That's what would >> It's not a trick question. I'm I'm I'm painting you into a corner to see that

it's a 0% chance of you squandering what

you have saved. True or false?

>> True. >> So, you're free. >> There's a much higher chance when you pass you will have millions and millions

sitting there >> that you can't take with you. >> That's the goal.

>> That's what I'm saying. I I think we

need to re readjust our goal here. Uh and there's >> now now how do do you obviously you're single. Do you have any family >> right now? She is.

>> Someone's going Hey, I'm doing my best part. I'll tell you that. right now.

>> He's trying.

>> So, yeah. Are there any people in your life that you would even leave the money to?

>> I would leave it to organizations like for disabled veterans.

>> Wow. >> Um, >> that's beautiful. Do you mind sharing?

Do you mind sharing right now what you have in retirement? What do you have?

What's your nest egg right now?

>> So, for five years, I've managed 275.

>> That's fantastic. Way to go.

>> And you have zero debt?

>> No. No. Zero debt. >> And you're crushing it. Is your Is you are you an electrician?

>> Building inspector. >> Building inspector. Okay, good for you.

So, you're doing very well. We're always going to need building inspectors. You know who can't do building inspections?

>> AI. Come on. Let's go.

>> Amen. >> Amen to that. So, you're in great shape.

>> How How old are you? Can I ask?

>> 56. >> That's right. We do. Okay. So, 5. Okay. So, do you have a specific dollar amount

in mind that you're wanting to get to for retirement?

>> No, >> you don't. Okay. So, I would have somewhat of a goal because you have 200 what' you say? 75,000.

>> 75. >> That's great. Okay. But but also you you're going to want to want more for retirement.

So, I would I would plan out sit down with a financial adviser and just say, "Hey, what's a number I need to shoot for?" And all that is is a goal. Okay? This isn't an identity thing. >> Uh it's just an idea of, "Hey, I have to get to this place." So that's going to give you some healthy motivation to know, am I being cheap here or there?

I don't know. But you have something you're actually shooting for. And then the second thing is once you start to get to that place, you know, money is so funny. It can be such a part of bondage for so many people and on one end people spend, they go deeply in debt and money becomes an idol to them because it's just like, oh my gosh, it's all they think about because they're stressed on one end because they've made bad decisions with money.

And then you have people on the other end of the spectrum where money takes up as much mental calories as people over here, but they have it and it's actually stolen their freedom. You're not free >> even though mathematically you are. So that's the piece from an emotional standpoint I would want to start working on of what is causing that fear.

you said your mom and all of that, but but but really like from day in day out, what is going on in me that's causing me to live life like this? Because from a spiritual perspective, there's a level of bondage there that has to be broken.

And so that I think a goal is going to help you genuinely. I think I think shooting for something where you feel safe of like a number of like, okay, I know this feels this feels good that you get to, but then there's an emotional piece, too, because if you're not careful, that number you're going to get to, you're going to be like, "It's not enough. I got I got I need some more." And that finish line moves and you stay in that for the rest of your life. So, um, so yeah, I would be I would be thinking about that and asking yourself some of those questions of what can cause me to be free to live life with an open hand because some people that are not I'm not saying this is you because you're a very generous person the way you've served in your life and your actions.

So, I don't want to paint you in this corner, but some people that live life like this, they're not they they tend not to be generous people.

So, that open hand mentality is so important with money. But I don't think you have that problem because of everything you just laid about your life story.

And you have a paid for house. Yes. >> Oh, yeah. >> What's the house worth?

>> Three maybe out in the county.

>> You're going to be fine cuz 56 in my book is young. You know what I'm saying?

So, you're in great shape. And you know what? I'm going to do something for Grace. We got a little something. We never know what we're going to give. >> How much stuff do you guys have back here? >> I got a lot of stuff back here. I got a lot of stuff, >> sir. On the front row, pay attention to what I'm doing.

>> Grace, come on down. We have some flowers for you.

You're so sweet. You're awesome. Give it up for Grace one more time.

>> Okay, James, can I call an audible? Do you trust me? >> Okay. >> Can Rachel call it? This is >> Well, let's be honest. Rachel's been >> Rachel can do what she wants. Rachel, why don't you tell everybody what you were telling me in my ear? Go ahead. I like this. >> Cuz we love a settle the debate. It's one of our favorites. And so I saw a couple's hand over here that said they would volunteer >> for a couple's debate. Is this true?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Where are they? >> They're right here in the front. >> Stand up and head to the mic. >> Head to the mic. We're about to settle a debate.

>> It's what we want. >> Thank you, James, our fearless leader.

>> This is what we want. >> This is what we have come here for.

>> This is our favorite. >> I don't know why you all are here. I know why we're here. It's to settle a debate. No, I kid. Okay, this is fun. We want to know your names. We'll start with ma'am your name >> Jessica. >> Jessica >> and Joel >> and what? >> Roel or Joel.

>> Joel. >> Yeah, >> I'll go with Joel cuz I'll butcher the other one. You know. Okay. And where are you guys from? >> Mexico. >> Mexico. No way. Thanks for coming. Okay.

Somebody set it up. What is the debate that you want this esteemed panel of judges to weigh in on?

So we we have um sort of combined our

finance um since we came here to the US

but there's some um some money that was

u before or things that just had u like

a a house and um

yes some some savings or some stocks uh

that we haven't combined. So we were

last week in Kosuml and we were having just a like some tension and discussions about about it.

>> So I don't know >> who wants to do what? Let's give us the two positions. >> Yes. So I would like to know how can I better show her that um

that she trusts me maybe.

>> Oh. >> So what do you so what do you want to do sir? What is what is the position? What do you want to do that you would like her to trust you with?

>> Just uh fully combined finance and everything. Just not finance but everything. >> Everything. >> Everything is ours. >> Love your heart. >> Okay. Okay. So, Jessica,

I mean the guy is emotional. What a heart. Jessica, what are what are you concerned about? And and by the way, not judging you. What are you concerned about? What are your fears or disagreements on this?

So my uh I I'm not sure like or what's

the best way to bring that money here in

the relationship because we are thinking maybe to buy a house but I have like

around 150k and we could bring that

money into the house but I I'm not sure if that's good for the relationship. Uh like >> why Okay, let's stop right there. What would be what do you think that money

and combining things how would it harm your relationship?

>> Because probably he will feel like the house is mine uh or something like that.

>> I pause sir will Joel will you feel that

way? >> No. Uh

I I mean I think it's um

whenever we have these discussions I hear that she wants to take care of her

parents or help them. And this is where I think at some point I don't know if

she feels that I'm not supportive to help her parents. Uh we came we come

from different backgrounds. my my parents are retired. They have no uh they don't need any help. But on on her end, more like a scarcity background and

I think this is also like we get emotional. >> Is is he on target in that your fear is if we combine money, I will lose control

of my desire to help my mom and dad.

>> Yep. >> Okay. What do you need to hear from him tonight to alleviate that fear?

like he will be supportive with my desire to help them and we can make a

plant or something like that.

>> Okay, Joel, what have you not told her or what do you want to re-emphasize to her right now about that concern? Uh I

would say that um as for now we have

maybe supported them the best we knew before just with money but now I think

we can support them with a plan with experiences or even saving some that we

can manage um for us and for them that

in the future can help with the with the

diseases that they might have or they are not planning and we are foreseeing it. But I think writing a plan and

really aligning to that will be helpful.

And then in 10, 15 years or whenever the money's needed, we have it. And it's a it's better managed that if we just give it to them and then

my fear is that they might not uh use it in the best way and we can help better with Jessica.

>> Do you understand his concern on that piece?

I get it at some point, but also I'm not

sure if maybe just like not like a big

amount, but something smaller that we

could can give them now. And then Okay.

>> Are they in need, Jessica, right now financially?

>> Yes and no.

>> Are they asking for money from you?

>> No. >> Okay. So what's causing you to say we have to give some money? I I need to be helping them now. What is that?

>> I think it's more because I would like them to have like experiences or comfort that I have now

and and they don't have.

>> So you feel guilty because of everything they've done for you and yet you're living a better life than them. And so you want to sort of pay it >> back, pay it forward in that sense. Are you guys ready to uh >> settle the debate? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> I know that I am, but I want to make sure. >> Are you? >> I am. Sorry. I'm ready to be a judge.

>> Get the gavl out. >> Hold on a second. >> Oh my god. >> Oh, not the wig.

>> Oh my lord. Oh my lord.

>> What is our prop budget? This is wild.

It's not powdered.

>> All right. Am I going first or last? I feel like you have to go first now.

>> I feel like the wig >> I feel like I have so much credibility with this and this that it might sway your decision, but I'll go first. >> We have different definitions of credibility, but continue.

>> I did notice that both Jessica and Joel went from crying to laughing. So, I think it it did its job. Okay. I think it's very simple. Uh I heard his heart immediately. He wants you to trust him

that he's for you. And if he's for you, he's for your parents. I hear your concern as well, but I also hear that Joel saying, "I'm not sure that my in-laws, your parents, are the best ones to handle a large sum of money." And so, if we commit, and he's committed to writing a plan out to take care of them,

but you use the money, it's your money, and you support them. I think it's a great plan. I think his heart's even better than his plan. So, I rule in favor of Joel.

Really? That's all I get? >> Can I get

>> Can I have the gavvel? >> Oh, yes. Yes. Thank you. Okay. >> Do you want the wig? >> I think No. No. >> You think she's good? She's good. >> I'm fine. I'm fine. >> Burn that. >> Um, my vote is I would combine everything.

Shocker, I know. But I would I would combine everything. I think he needs to hear from you that you choose him

>> over your parents because you've chosen to get married and that man loves you a lot. >> Loves you a lot and he's going to take good care of you. You guys are together going to make a really great team. And I think out of the teamwork, we get to build a life together. And that looks like whatever you guys want, that's the beauty about being adults is you get to make decisions. So together, do we want

to buy a home? together. Do we want to take her parents on a trip every year with us and include them and fly them where they need to be for the kids if you guys have kids in the future? Like what does that all look like with the money that we have together? So on that

basis, I think I'm more in favor with

Joel.

>> Wow.

>> All right. Um >> Oh, no. Sorry. >> Hold on. It's not a real It's not real.

George, I want to make sure you're seeing the object is to hit this with that.

>> I missed it. Okay, I'll I'll end with this. I definitely agree with what they've said, but I think that the heart of this Joel is he's rightfully so

worried that this is going to turn into entitlement from your parents and even enabling. And he truly wants to help them. He loves these people. And I think he wants a plan to make them independent, not because he doesn't want to support them, but because he actually believes in their autonomy to live live their lives without needing you.

And I think that is a noble goal. So I do think you should combine finances, but I think you should create boundaries around what this looks like to support your parents, maybe even a deadline, and not just that forever we're going to write checks to them, and that's going to be the priority of our relationship. Because at the heart of this, the lack of combining finances has created a chasm in your marriage. There is a gap right now where you guys can't be fully together.

It's an emotional thing. It's an intimacy thing. And I think that supersedes the help to your parents. And I think he you guys are an amazing couple. You will figure out the boundaries and how to do this the right way. But I think combining those finances will actually free you Jess more than you think. So I rule in favor of Joel.

But but hey, hold on.

>> Oh, a parting gift.

>> I like the gifts. We got a nice bottle

of Josh. You two need to crack this bottle tonight and start the written plan. All right, here it is.

>> There you go. You guys are awesome.

Thank you guys. You're great.

>> What's the dumbest thing you've ever done with money? >> Bought a car. I probably shouldn't have.

>> What car was that? >> It was a Chevrolet Camaro. Whenever I first started investing, I definitely just threw money at like some meme stocks that didn't pay off. So, I learned pretty quick. Bought a car and

then um the car went bad. I got frustrated and sold it. And then me and my wife were with one car for 7 years.

If you had to cover a $1,000 emergency, how would you do it right now?

>> Credit card. I would pull it out of savings or phone a friend.

>> Okay. So, you have the money in savings.

That's good. >> Get money out of my emergency fund.

>> You have one? Okay. How many months of expenses do you have? >> Sort away. >> Three months of expenses.

>> Honestly, I have a really good village, so I can lean on that if I don't have it. >> Speaking of drinks, you guys know a little something about drinks.

>> Smart money hour. >> Yeah. Rachel created a whole show where she gets to drink on the clock. Pretty famous. >> No. Smart Money Happy Hour was created because I was like, wouldn't it be fun if me and George got to sit down and chat like we do as friends, have a cocktail, talk about things going on?

It's great. But part of Smart Money Happy Hour and one of our partners there is Fairwinds Credit Union. So, we're going to give them another shout out because they are amazing. And I know we've talked about them tonight. But Fairwinds is a such a great partner with Ramsay because when you are using your money and you are having to interact with banks and banking institutions, having someone on the other side of that that is so helpful that knows that you know they are for you in your journey with the baby steps. That's everything.

>> Absolutely. And I mentioned that smart bundle earlier that's got a fee free checking account, high yield savings account, that Ramsey branded debt as normal bewer debit card and you can have up to 10 savings accounts. They created this just for our fans because we know that y'all are nerdy and you like to have syncing funds for the trip and for the car and for all these different things. So, they actually changed their product to serve you guys better. And that's why we've loved this partnership.

They even cut international transaction fees on their cards after they saw one of my videos where I said, "Make sure your debit card doesn't do this." So, they said, "Let's adjust everything to serve the Ramsay fans in an incredible way." So, if you want to check that out, just go to fairwinds.org/ramsey org/ramsey to open up that smart bundle and start to introduce this new bank to the mix and I think you'll quickly find you want to start doing more and more with them. >> Yeah, their app is easy to use. Their interface is easy. Their customer service is incredible.

When you open it, they call you the next day on the phone just to make sure everything. So, I mean, it really is they are incredible people and they have an incredible product when it comes to us that you have to use your debit card every single day. And so, having Fairwinds on your side is so huge.

>> I love it. By the way, real quick question. How's my hair look after having the wig on? Is it all right? >> It looks good. So, >> just want to make sure. I don't want to be a distraction. >> I'll remain silent. >> Thank you, George. This is really, really fun. George, you got your calculator ready? >> Why do you assume that I have my calculator ready? And yes, I do.

>> Because we talked about it earlier.

>> It's ready. >> It says in Yes, I do. >> It's ready. So, here's what we're going to do. We're going to have a fun group debtree scream. How does that sound?

Does that sound fun? But we're going to do something kind of kind of kind of neat. So, here's what we want you to do.

If you have become debtree in the last 12 months, would you stand? Just stand

wherever you are. >> That's consumer debtree. If you did the mortgage, too, that's great. >> That's fine. But it does not have to be the house, right, George? >> Yeah, exactly. >> So, they're standing up there. That's exciting. We got a few more. Okay.

>> Yes. >> This is great. Everybody stand. I want to make sure everybody's up because this is a key part of the thing.

>> Is everybody up? >> Oh, look at them. want to keep. Okay, great.

>> They keep coming. Okay, now here's what we're going to do. So, I'm going to assist George and I'm going to start on the right side of the room and work my way over. And what I want you to do is yell out how much you paid off.

George is going to add it all up and we're going to see what has happened collectively to pay off debt in the last 12 months and then we'll do a group debt free. Love it. All right, I'm at the ready. >> Let's start up here cuz I saw ma'am, how much?

>> 265. Strong start. Use the numbers right

there. Wow. Amazing.

Anybody else up there? Yes, sir.

>> 175 >> 175,000. >> It's our man again.

>> Okay. Fantastic. And after you give me your number, you can sit down if you want, but we're going to ask you to stand back up, but you can rest right here with the Clemson shirt on. Yes.

>> $1,500.

>> $1,500. That's great. We like that.

>> We love it. >> Okay. Right here. >> 27,000. >> 27,000. Good job.

>> I tell you what we're going to do. Let's hold applause so we can move a little quicker. I love your spirit, but we got to move quickly. Want to get >> 12 >> 12,000. Okay, great.

>> 290,00 >> 290,000 in the back. Uh all uh right here, the couple right here. >> 250. >> 250,000 behind them.

>> 150. >> Okay. Excellent. Uh ma'am, all the way in the back row.

>> 3,000. >> How much? >> 3,000. >> 3,000. I love it. Okay. Are you all three together?

>> Just you two. Okay, yell it out.

>> 380ish. >> 380ish.

>> Okay, George. I don't know how you're going to calculate that. >> My phone can handle it. Okay. Next to next to them. Yes, ma'am.

>> 233,000.

>> 233,000.

Okay. And anybody on this? Okay. And now, uh, this couple right back here.

Yes, sir. >> 66. >> What? >> 66. >> 66,000 right here. 75 >> 75,000 right here.

>> 15 >> 150,000 right here.

>> 168,000 >> 168,000 and >> 39,000 >> 39,000. Did I miss anybody?

>> Okay, all those people stand back up.

>> Ken, can I add? >> You can. Before we do that, let's let's get a total. George, what do you have?

>> ABOUT $2.3 MILLION.

>> WOW. >> GOSH. >> OKAY. And you got a fun idea?

>> Yes.

That's a lot of hard work. Okay, I want everyone who is debtree, consumer debt

or mortgage, regardless of when you paid it off, to stand up so you can be part of >> join this amazing group. >> If you are debtree in the room, >> look at this. >> Stand up. >> Everybody up.

>> Okay, this is fun.

>> Amazing. >> George, would you like to do the honors to count them down? >> It would be an honor. You guys know what we're doing. George will count you down.

And I mean, this is from your guts cuz

you worked hard. And we're so proud to be in the room with all of you. You all are heroes. You've changed your family tree. George, count them down. Let's hear a group debtree scream. All right, we've got $2.3 million paid off in the

last 12 months in this room alone in Charlotte, North Carolina. And dozens more have become debtree standing up following this plan. Count it down, guys. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> Three.

That is incredible.

That'll that that'll put a little pep in your step. >> And we don't have time to go around and get everybody else's amount, but 2.3 million is just a drop in the buck

done. So great. Hey, listen. Uh you all are great. Before we sign off, uh, I just want my colleagues a word of encouragement. What would you share with people, no matter what baby step they're in, they're here for a reason tonight.

They're here to be intentional. George, what would you share? >> Well, you know, I see a lot of headlines. I see a lot of scary stuff. I see a lot of doom and gloom out there.

And yet in this room, there is just a beacon of hope. And you guys are not immune to it. You've lived through it.

You've sacrificed. You've had trials and tribulations. And yet, you're on the other side of it. And that I think is one of the most inspiring stories America needs to hear right now. And you guys are living it and I'm so proud of all of you. So thank you for being here.

>> So good.

Amen. George.

>> Yeah. I would say regardless of where you are in the baby steps and some of you are maybe starting baby step one right in all of this and then you just saw everyone who's paid off debt and the numbers are just outstanding of those of you that just stood up. But I would say regardless of where you are, the secret is you. And I think you know that.

And you know what what you want different in your life, you get to make decisions to change that. What you don't like about your life, you get to make decisions to change that. And I feel like we're in a room of people who are willing to do that and willing to face one of the hardest subjects in life, which is money from a tactical side, an emotional side, a spiritual side. And you guys are so engaged and you are not letting this topic ruin your life.

you're getting ahead of it and you're saying, you know what, I'm going to be in control and we're going to change the things we need to change. And that takes a lot of courage.

We love doing this show and we love being able to see the faces tonight of those of you that listen. So, we love y'all. >> Yeah, that's so good.

>> I'll just dubtail off of Rachel. I think she said it. You all did it. You know, we talk about controlling the controllables, and I'm looking at a room full of people, no matter what their story, no matter what their circumstances, no matter what their background, no matter what their environment was. At some point, you made a decision to control what only you could control and you changed your life.

Some of you are in the process of changing your life, and you are the

answer. We aren't the answer. We're just cheerleading you on, coaching you up.

But you are the difference. And I want to share that. No matter what happens later tonight or in the days or years ahead, whatever comes your way, you've won in a major area. And you control

what you can control. Don't worry about DC. Don't worry about your governor's office. Don't worry about what your neighbors are doing. You live the life that you want to live. And you can because you've done it to this point.

So, we're so honored to be with you all.

Uh, I do want to do one thing. I do want you all to join me. We have an incredible crew. It came from Nashville, our headquarters, an amazing team from

James Childs to our live event team to our Ramsey Network leadership, Ramsey Network crew. If you're on the crew, would you stand up for just a second cuz I would love We can't do this. It's going to change so many lives and we can't do this without them. So, would you all join us in thanking them?

Hey, you guys are great. On behalf of our entire team, Dave Ramsey, George Kell, Rachel Cruz, thank you all for being with us. We love you so much. Good night, Charlotte. Thanks, guys. Have a great night.

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## 103. Live from Phoenix: The Ramsey Show on Tour | May 21, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:31:19 |

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I have a sister. Before she even said I

do, leading up to the wedding, she said, "I will get pregnant immediately. Like, I expect you to set up my baby registry.

I want you to help me buy the car seat.

I want the strollers." >> And what did you do? >> We're a little stressed out.

>> What is a completely irrational fear that you have? >> I don't drive behind the big tractor trailer truck that have all the cars loaded on it. I really do have a fear that I am going to be convicted of murder.

My adult son moved back home. We are charging him roommate rent. Do we return it to him? >> How? Wait, really y'all? >> He's a daggum prone man.

>> How old is he? >> 31.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, brought to you by Fairwinds Credit Union, live from Phoenix, Arizona, this is the Ramsay Show.

Yes. So good to be in this room. What a beautiful crowd. A loud crowd. And we're ready to go. We're ready to learn from each other. So, let's get it started.

First question up is Courtney. Give Courtney some love. There she is. What's

your question? >> Uh, well, first, thanks for having me.

I'm kind of nervous. Very excited.

Great. Okay. My question is, it's kind

of embarrassing, but my husband and I have combined our incomes. This is We've only been married for about 5 years. Um, and I find I'm having a hard time with resentment sometimes is I make a little bit more money, but he likes to spend the money. So, I know it's right biblically. It's been great for us to combine our incomes, but I'm just wondering what steps I can do to change my heart on this issue and like not

struggle with that resentment, if that makes any sense. >> Is he in the room? >> He's not in the room. No, he's at work.

He's at work. But >> making some money. When you say overspend, >> exactly. He's working, making money.

>> When you say he's spending more, like what does that look like? Give us an example. Is it just running over to, you know, the gas station and buying a Mountain Dew and corn nuts or he's like buying golf clubs? Like what does it look like? >> Um, no. It's probably more like like to

him like we have the every dollar app and everything and so we've made you know line items and some of that you know we have to kind of figure out like what goes where but we have like a general one for Amazon so for him he's like >> look at all that money in the Amazon I'm just going to you know get socks and shirts and you know what my truck needs this and >> well there's your problem >> I know you got to change that. I think part of that is like we're trying to well and what started this was I said something really snarky about a week ago and we got in a big fight about it and we ended up working it out but part of that was trying to figure out I think maybe how to differentiate that >> you need to a bit more >> well wait a second is he going over the Amazon budget or is he just spending it all on himself before you get a chance to get in there >> right there >> well this guy should but in his defense it's not resentful he's just like there I'm getting myself a you.

>> Well, that's my next question. Is he on board with the baby steps and your goals? >> Yes. Yeah.

He was a little bit reluctant, but once we started doing the plan and seeing, you know, the benefit to us in terms of like, oh, wow, you know, we can really put money towards retirement and we can do all these things, you know, we paid off our debt and, you know, all these things. It's been really great. Do you have separate fun money line items in addition to the Amazon catchall? >> We do.

I listen, if it were me, I would just break it up or cuz right now it just says Amazon. Is it like for is it for like household items and he's using it for fun things or it literally is just to your heart's content on Amazon as long as it >> and that's part of it. We haven't like really delineated what it's for.

>> Or cuz if he's using it as fun money, that lets me know maybe his fun money needs to be bumped up. And if you're feeling resentful because you're not able to spend it, maybe your fun money needs to be bumped up. And then maybe the Amazon category turns into, I don't know, like household items or something that's very specific that we're buying on Amazon. Just cuz there's no clarity.

I think that's the problem, right? >> Yeah. And for me, it's a there's a value system difference, right? And so, I'm probably more on your husband's team in our marriage, honestly. I'm probably more him and Winston's probably more you. And I think the the frustration can

be that he doesn't value X, Y, and Z.

So, he sees a purchase or you see your husband spending, you know, and maybe the thought is your knee-jerk reaction is like, "That's so stupid. That feels wasteful. >> That's that's silly. We don't need that." Like, that it feels, you know what I'm saying? Like >> I do, but then I'm like like our argument was over um personal hygiene products like skin cream and stuff and

historically men Ken, how much do you spend on your face cream? >> Oh, this is a very GOOD QUESTION.

>> KEN IS like any other man that you may

even have. >> It's not what you think. No, I do. >> No, Ken is a bougie man.

>> So he's actually him and George Camel.

See great ones to ask. I have one bottle of Kes and it's it's about yay big and

that's all I do.

>> This lady what she makes Sam go through.

It's unbelievable. That man knows about Facebook. >> I'm just trying to make us age at the same time. >> Here's what I want to say.

>> That's me too.

>> But here's >> Have you guys talked about this last situation? >> We did. >> And what was the result?

>> It's not the face cream that's the issue though, right? It just bubbled up. That was the last straw, right?

>> You guys have identified it, but I'm I'm coming on the back end of this when you discussed it. Yeah. >> What was his response?

>> Um, well, his response was he was we were trying to figure out how much to put on that, you know, line item. And he's like, "Well, what about $50?" And I'm like, "No, that's not enough every month for my face cream." And he's like, "Well, what about a hundred?" And I and I was on the spot.

You know what I mean? >> Okay. So, so I think you get great advice from Jade. I do think that you're going to have to communicate some boundaries and if he really is on board with this, he's got to, you know, he's got to play ball.

And I would tell him if he were here tonight, I go, "Hey man, you need to gravel a little bit." >> Yeah. >> And and you need to step into this because I'm also a spender. And I appreciate what Rachel said. This is a communication issue, number one.

sure we understand our triggers with this stuff cuz you guys, the way this went, I'm not criticizing you at all, but what I'm hearing is Rachel is that we went back and forth volleyball.

>> And if you're in a marriage, if it has to be that >> you're this and I have to this this It's an exhausting scoreboard to keep up with, right? >> And he did identify that. He goes, "Uh, I realized I just kind of triggered you when I said, "Oh, I was going to spend more money." You know, cuz that's my trigger. >> It's a good man.

Hey, this is brass tax real conversation and go, we can't play this one upmanship. I do think her answer is the solve, but you're going to have to not just do it on paper. You're going to have to actually behave that way. >> Yeah.

And I I like fun money categories because then you go and spend it. You don't like when Sam spends his money, I half the time I don't even know what he's spending it on and I don't ask because honestly I don't care. And and same thing for me. And I think as long as it's living in that catchall, then you get to ask him, "Well, what happened to that $50?

What happened to this money?" And I think just letting yourselves go and do your thing and be free. And by the way, it's a great thing.

which that might also help you out a little bit. Yeah, we did make it a whatever that's called where it's like a carry it over. >> Yeah. Add it to the next fun that it keeps moving. Yes. >> Yes. By the way, your skin looks fantastic. Can I just tell you the cream is worth it. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. >> You guys are going to give her some love. Thank you so much for that question.

>> Okay. >> But the judgment free zone on spending is big though in marriage. Don't you all think? >> Say more.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz that's what you were saying. They're not going to value the same stuff.

>> They're not going to value the same stuff. went and bought a red light thing. >> Oh, yeah. >> I don't even know.

Yeah. And I was like, I don't get it. That's great. I don't get it.

But, you know what I mean? I want other things. And so, but it it's that constant I don't want to feel like I'm having to hide a purchase, justify a purchase constantly, right? We're both adults.

We're both and regardless of again who brings it in as a household, right? We get to enjoy our money. So, >> so the impulse spenders like me, I mean, I just go sometimes I'm not even trying to buy something and I see it. Impulse vendor.

>> Oh, yeah. >> I did not peg you for that. >> Are you being serious?

>> All of these years. >> Are you shocked by that? >> No. No. >> No. I'm not but I'm not like I'm not irresponsible. >> But I can also see Kim being like, "Look at these boots. I've been looking at these for months. I just can't wait to buy." >> You're You're so intentional. That's what I'm thinking. You've had your eye on it. Well, I'm very intentional. I see it and I go, "I intend to buy those."

>> No, I I I get it. No, I my point is is that that is so huge in our marriage because then it's like this is it's okay. We're not worried about we're not keeping score.

>> Score keeping is big. >> Yeah. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, give some love to Megan who's up next. Megan.

Megan, tell us where you're from.

>> I grew up in San Bernardino, California, but recently moved to Prescott, Arizona.

Um, just closed on my first home a little less than a month ago. >> Hey. Hey, let's give that some love.

That's pretty cool.

Um, my partner and I, we paid off close to $100,000 in debt. Um, and closed on

our first home in March. And our current

it it's not an argument. He backs me 100%. Um, but my question is,

what would you do in this situation where I have a sister who has three beautiful

boys and for the first and the third, I

went above and beyond. I bought the car seat, I bought the stroller, I bought like at least 3 months worth of diapers.

Um, just e easily spent probably

let's say around two grand.

um for her first and her third. I have

another sister who now that she's

expecting has that same expectation

although her circumstances are different where she has the

supportive partner that my sister did not. And so what would you do um or what

would you say to the sister of the look I want to give

you a gift but

situations are different is the reason because and just be real with us is the reason because you don't have the money to help anymore or is it is it a personal thing like is it truly like we're not that close and I just don't feel compelled to help her in that way or is it like tell us more about your reason your person, forget their expectation, your personal reason why it's like ah I don't feel compelled to to give in that way. So financially I

have the means to do so. Um

but also in some ways I also don't because my partner and I are struggling with infertility and so we're looking into infertility treatments and we don't know what that would cost. Got you. Um so we do want to be mindful of that. Um,

but also there is a little bit of a relational difference between sisters.

>> And does it also feel different the expectation cuz I'm guessing the first sister you just did that of your own valition or was she coming to you saying, "Hey, I need you to do XYZ." Um,

so with with the first sister, with her first, it was I was so

excited to have a nephew that would be within close proximity that I could love and I could spoil. With her third, it

was the father literally left the state

when he found out that she was pregnant. She had no support at all. And so I'm like, "Okay, let me let me help you out.

Tell me what you need." >> What about this second child? I'm feeling bad for this kid. I know, right?

>> As middle. >> Keep saying first and third. I'm like, that kid's going to be scarred. Anybody else thinking that?

>> As little children. Little children.

>> No, I actually between the first and the third, it's like less than an 18-month difference. So, he had the handme-downs.

He He still gets the love. He's fine.

>> I don't think he is, but that's okay.

All right. So here's I want to know is this that the the your sister that's pregnant now >> has she verbally said to you like hey

this is the car seat is she like like what are those conversations or are you putting that expectation >> the conversation that took place was

before she even said I do um leading up

to the wedding she said when I get pregnant which I will get pregnant immediately and I'm like okay good for you um Um,

she was she was like, "I expect you to set up my baby registry. I want you to help me buy the car seat. I want the stroller. I want this, that, and the next." >> And what did you do, >> boo boo? >> I said, "We'll see." >> Okay, here's here's what's going on.

Okay, so a lesson. All right,

>> family members get expectations in their head. And I heard something earlier, and this is not on you, but I'm just going to point this out. Okay.

You gave willingly to the other because

you thought she needed it. There was a need there. You don't think this other sister needs it. That is your that's your view. And I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think you have to own that.

And and you have to understand that it's not right for her to say what she said.

That's why the audience gasped. That was cray cray. However, we cannot control

our family members and people do get expectations cuz you were such a great sister. I'm wrapping up, but I I just want to say this.

Well, I got two women on both sides of me. When they ready to talk, I gotta wrap it up. I can feel it.

You need to own the fact that you created an expectation. You didn't do anything wrong, but she took it that way. And she's gone over the top. She's crazy wrong. Just calling it out. But I

think you're going to have to stick to your guns and say, "I don't feel like this is what I should be doing." And I would absolutely say we're in a different season of life. We're trying to have a baby and this could be very, very expensive. Stacy and I walk through that. I know exactly the journey you're considering. And I think you have to stick to your guns there and say, "I can't do this right now. And here's why.

And I'm sorry that you have this expectation, but I can't do that." And you're gonna have to be okay with the results. If not, I think she's going to hold you hostage, and then it's going to be even uglier than it already is.

That's my two cents on that, ladies.

>> Well, I just want to say it's not your responsibility. >> Oh, no. >> Like, you've put that on you. You know what I mean? And I think you have to own that in you. You can only control you.

And Ken's right. When you put up a boundary with a boundaryless person, it

doesn't go well. It doesn't go well.

There's no boundaries there. There's no consideration. There's no gratitude.

There's no compassion or empathy. If she knows what you're going through, there's none of that from her. And that's regard that makes it sound like it's conditional that if she was really nice, she'd want to give. But I I think starting baseline, you have to understand this is not my responsibility.

And so what's within you is what you can control. And so that's that's what I would encourage you to find that inside yourself that this is and it's not a selfish thing, but you're not their mom. You know, you're not you're not their guardian. They're not little kids.

They're grown adults just like you are. So it's not your responsibility. >> Well said. I was yeah I was just going to add on there and I I actually wouldn't give a lot of details.

I'm trying to fund you know this or my financial situation has changed. You're grown. You don't have to say that.

don't have you know don't have that expectation. I won't be able to do that this time. And just keep it simple because once you start rolling out the reasons and the reasons, that's you kind of apologizing for it. And to to Rachel's point, you don't have to apologize for it. >> And under no circumstance do you let her

bully you into doing something once you

make this decision. This the line has been drawn in the sand. You understand?

>> Yeah. >> All right. You don't want to be a prisoner to anybody in your family.

Y'all give her some love. That's a tough tough decision. Yeah.

>> All right. Up next, welcome to the

microphone, Cameron.

There he comes.

>> It's like a catwalk. >> Yeah, >> that's quite the walk. >> Oh, yeah. >> You did good. >> I perfected it. >> You did great. >> You're going to do my my wave.

>> That's great. I don't think that's your look, but that's okay. All right, Cameron, where are you from?

>> I'm from Santan Valley.

>> Okay. >> Just outside of Phoenix. >> Okay. Some of your neighbors are here. This lady gave holy hands. That's very exciting. All right. What's your question? >> Yeah. So, um I'd like to start with the question and then I'll give you a little bit of background. Um my question is,

how do you know when to take a risk on

maybe a side business that you're working on versus pro also while trying

to provide for a family? Okay. Now, a

little bit of background. Um I'm 32. I'm

married. have a daughter. As of today, she's 20 months old. So, young daughter.

Thank you.

And uh we have another baby on the way.

>> Oh, congrats. >> So, the business I'm working on is kind

of based off of reading your book, Find

the Work You're Wired to Do. And I have

a passion for it. It It brings me joy. I

I love it. Um but it's just a side business, right? >> Are you making any money with it at all?

I am I'm making a little bit of money and it's starting to >> it's a couple thousand a month >> and that's after expenses.

>> Yeah. After expenses.

>> Okay, great. >> So, the business is like I I go around the valley and I help other businesses

sell uh products that are just kind of just haven't been sold and they're sitting on their shelves. They need to move inventory. And so this kind of like

good, fast, cheap, sure you works with all of those. >> Yeah. So, I've been kind of pursuing that and I enjoy the connections and the sales process behind it.

>> What's the challenge you're asking about tonight? >> So, the challenge is do I focus my attention on trying to build that or

uh do I just continue with my career path I'm kind of on, but I also have the baby on the way. I have my family I'm trying to support. So, I'm kind of juggling a lot. >> Yeah. So, I think it's pretty simple. I think the fact that you are making some actual profit and a couple grand a month is nothing to sneeze at when I've got another baby on the way.

>> How much time do you spend a month getting that couple thousand like in a in a week? How many hours do you work?

>> And it varies quite a bit. Um >> give us an average. >> Yeah. So let's say average probably 10 hours a week. >> So is mama going to want you to stop working that extra 10 hours a week when baby 2 comes along?

>> Very possible. Maybe for a short time.

So, I think it's okay to press pause on that because it's not your inventory.

It's not like you're stuck with a bunch of inventory on your shelves. That's, you know, I got to I got to get my money back. This is something where you're going out hustling, finding some stuff, and you're a reseller, which I really applaud you on that. So, I think it does come down to the amount of hours >> we're going to work.

And if she says, "Okay, well, you're in in 40 hours a month, 10 hours a week average, you're bringing home $2,000 a month." >> Yeah. >> Is she okay with that? And maybe we want that 2,000 a month. I will tell you this, I don't know what Rachel and Jay think, but I would be doing it all the way up until the baby's born to stack as much cash as possible.

>> So, are you hoping to make that your full-time career eventually?

>> So, in this season, I would just whatever I already gave you what I think you should talk with her about. Okay. Now, going forward, cuz I know where your question is like when do I know when do I walk from my career to that?

>> Yeah. >> Is that the question? >> Exactly. Super simple. You ready? >> Mhm. >> When you have a minimum of 6 months of

your current salary, okay, in your day job, I would want a minimum 6 months. I

personally would do 12 months. Okay?

That's super conservative. They've heard me say this on the show before, but I'd say 6 to 12 months of your current salary, your day job in this side company bank account before I would ever walk from the day job because you don't want the kind of pressure to survive on

a new business. You want a pipeline. You want to prove that I found my places in the valley. They're used to me now. They're calling me. They're calling three or four other business to say, "Hey, you got some extra inventory. This is your guy." you need to build the pipeline plus a bank account before I'd ever even think about moving on.

>> Yeah, I'm think for financially speaking

that makes it makes sense. Um, also it's

it's kind of um you know when the next baby comes. I got two babies and then we got you know everything else we're trying to work on in life. Um saving up for expenses. We just recently paid off our last debt um just two weeks ago.

>> Congrats. So you're on the baby step three. So we we were, you know, hustling and doing all this. Um, and so I guess

it was it was just kind of like that feels like there's a lot of things going on, a lot of things moving right now.

>> Then pull it back and maybe pause, but for how long? >> You guys decide. And you guys need to be intentional about it, right? And to say, okay, let's give it 90 days and pause it

for 90 days and let's regroup and look at 90 days. How are we both feeling?

Like you need to be in sync with her in this process. Um because if you have a spouse that you know if you guys now it's one thing if she's like go go go make money. I don't care like do what you got to do right because there season's a grind and you're both on the same page and even though there'll be hard hard days in the in the grind season you both are aligned. The worst is when one spouse is like I'm going to go do my thing cuz I feel over here and the other one's like this is not what I want my life to look like.

Then you start to walk two different paths.

you both get to say after 90 days or whatever the timeline is like I'm feeling good. This is good or uh let's wait one more month and then after the summer's over whatever it looks like.

So, but just breathe.

>> You're okay. >> You guys make the decision together.

Hey, give this this guy. He's so wound tight right now. He's got another baby on the way. Give him some love. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate you.

>> Thank you. You bet. All right. Up next, coming to the mic is Rauluca. Ruca, give her some love. There we go.

I got to say this. Can I brag? Can I brag? She was at the Chicago event last fall. >> Yeah. >> So, she's like she's making the tour stops with us. >> That's right. >> Fantastic. Okay. Step up to the mic and tell us your question. >> Okay. I'm Ruca from Omaha, Nebraska. And

woo, we got one other person. Great.

>> Very exciting. >> All right. >> Omaha. >> Okay. So, is it wrong to want to invest

uh in the stock market like S&P 500

instead of becoming a homeowner with

your first home purchase? Um, I'm I'm

very content at renting right now. I'm renting a house, have a roommate, and my rent's $1,200.

Um, I do have a six-month emergency

fund. Well, well over that. So, I'm I

guess I'm working on a down payment.

Step 3b.

Um I'm not the stereotypical wanting to

get into a house as a single single Pringle, but >> how long is that your plan? How long do you plan on writing that out?

>> I guess if I had to throw a number out there, 10 years. If I saved up for 10 years, then maybe. And are you investing some of the money in retirement and also some of it in a fund that you could get to like a brokerage account?

>> Correct. Correct. Yes. Do my 15% for the 401k uh with work and then also um just

regular brokerage account.

>> I mean on the one hand obviously if you don't have the money to purchase a home yet it makes sense that you would continue to save up. And if you know the horizon is greater than 5 years, yeah, sure. It makes sense to go ahead and invest that money. I don't want to ask you how old you are in front of all these folks. >> 29. >> Oh, you're there. >> I was going to ask anyway.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, I don't think there's any wrong with renting for a season of life, for a period of life. We were talking earlier, it's expensive to own a home and especially if it's not something you're interested in right now, I don't think that's a bad thing. However, I do think long-term there is going to be a time where you're going to want to stabilize that line item on your budget. And the only way you really can do that is by purchasing a home.

buildinging potential. Right? When we did the biggest study of millionaires, we found, yeah, owning a home is a huge part of becoming a baby steps millionaire. And so, for that reason, I would want that on, you know, in the cards for you in the future.

But if you're saving towards it for you, honestly, you're probably going to be at the point where you buy it in cash because you're such an investor. You're such a saver. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and writing out that timeline.

>> Yeah, I don't mind that.

>> I I don't mind that. >> That's a huge win. And you know what's great about this? The freedom that comes with this. >> You're just stacking cash. You're going to be in a position to do that, but you've also got a lot of freedom.

>> So, I think in your position, I love that advice. I do too. I'm excited for you, honestly. Good for you. By the way, you're crushing it. You know what I mean? I I love to see that you're crushing it. Yeah. That's awesome.

Thanks for coming tonight.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Very fun. Are you coming to uh are you going to make the trip with us down to uh Anaheim?

>> I don't know about that. >> Okay. No pressure. I was just >> Maybe I'll come down to Tennessee. I'll see you guys. >> That is fun. We'll see you there. All right. That is fun stuff. >> So good. So good. Thanks for the question. Yep. Be a great Be a great investor. I love that. Okay, question in the room.

How many of you guys are in a position where someone is dependent upon your income?

A spouse, kids in the room, anything?

Yes. Okay. So, it's a it's a good bit.

And there's a lot of people that listen to us or that are watching the Ramsey Show right now. And that is the case.

And I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is when they don't get life insurance. And it's one of the saddest Yes. >> People are clapping for life insurance.

We know where the Ramsey go, >> right? >> It's what we love. No, but really it is.

And it people get confused because it's not a baby step. Okay. If someone is dependent upon your income, you need term life insurance. And we love Xander

insurance. And Jeff Xander we've worked with for decades and they really are the best place to buy it. So if you do not have term life insurance, you guys, regardless of your baby step, it is something you need to get. >> Yeah.

And I would even add to that, a lot of people get it twisted because they think life insurance is a baby step. It's not. like you do it the moment that you find out about it. So if you're in baby step 2, you still need term life insurance.

And it's so simple, guys. Again, if something happens to you, anybody who depends on your income, uh if something happens to you, they're covered. And that's so important. You don't have to worry, are they going to be able to keep the house?

Are they going to be able to keep continuing life at that level? And we do recommend 10 to 12 times your income.

easy. It's straightforward, guys. Just go with Xander because they're not trying to sell you a wealth building tool. They're simply trying to sell you protection. >> Yeah. And it's inexpensive, too. And if you are a stay-at-home parent, you need life insurance. And we used to say half a million on a stay at home parent, but honestly, I would I would bump it up. >> I'd go as high as you can go.

>> I mean, seriously. Yes. But if you are healthy, especially you guys, like this is one of the the things that everyone needs to have. Again, I said earlier, what it is, it's one of the saddest calls we get when people don't have it and they lose a spouse.

>> Crazy. I remember when we realized I had three kids and I was like, I got to step it up, right? And plus the income changed. And I remember it was so affordable.

I got so much insurance on me. I didn't trust AC when I went to bed. When I happened, >> it's like a dine special.

>> I was like very jittery.

>> So go to xander.com and get your instant

quote online. That's xander.com with a Z. >> And by the way, Jeff Xander, guys, been friends with Dave for a long time. Great dude. Solid company. Can't trust anybody anymore. By the way, speaking of which, I want to thank our friends at Fairwinds. you know, they're the sponsor of our studio in Nashville, and because of them, we're able to do an incredible tour like this. So, we wanted to say thank you again to our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union. Fantastic group.

Need to check them out. We really trust them as well. So, would you thank them for making this tour a reality? Really,

really awesome.

While the Ramsay Show is out here in Phoenix, I thought I'd wander over to Arizona State and ask the next generation how they're handling money.

Tell me the dumbest thing you've done with money thus far. I like to follow K-pop.

>> Have you spent over $1,000 on K-pop related things? >> 3,000? I think >> $3,000. >> Buy a spoiler for my car.

>> A spoiler? What kind of car is this?

>> Uh Mustang. >> Oh, wow. Is it Is it still on there right now? >> Yeah, it is. >> I mean, why take it off? You already spent the money. What' that cost? >> Uh like 300 bucks. >> Oh, that's not bad. >> I went on a vacation first spring break.

Put it all on my credit card pretty much. If I were to cover the tab at a restaurant and they sell me, I think it's free cash. >> You weaponized your own generosity to cause you to spend even more.

>> Yeah, it's a pretty wild take. >> Went to Vegas and gambled my money away.

>> How much did you lose? >> All together, I lost about $2,000 in my winnings. >> Uh, since I'm a Dragon Ball fan, I guess you can see where I'm going with this. I bought like a lot of action figures.

>> How many? >> OVER 9,000.

>> UH, 10. >> You have 10. How much have you spent on Dragon Ball Z related things in your life? $500 to $600.

>> When I was like 14, I spent a hundred bucks on like a Tanner Fox meet and greet. >> What is that? >> He's a stupid YouTuber I watched when I was like 14. >> Did you pay $100 to meet Dave Ramsey?

>> Probably not. No. Sorry, Dave.

>> Sorry, Dave.

So, um, you guys have been asking us questions and we'll get to more of those, but this is the part of the night where Jade, Rachel, we like to flip the script and, uh, so we're going to ask you some questions and you just kind of shout out to us. we'll kind of behave and and we'll figure it out. So, I want to start with Jade. U you get to flip the script. What what what's a question you want to know from the audience?

>> Yeah. I want to know if you've ever bought something simply because you were influenced on the internets to buy it.

You were talked into it.

>> So, we got mics on either side. So, raise your hand and then our mic runners will get to you. >> Maybe it's like the dumbest thing, too.

>> Yeah. And it was stupid. Like it was something possible you regret.

>> Raise your hands again. We got to get them up so we can >> Or maybe it was really awesome and you can tell us about it and we can get one too. >> Where's my mic, guys? Wes, you got them right in front of you. Here we go. Yes, sir. What's your name?

>> Jamal. >> Boy, you got a voice. It's not the first time you've had a mic in your hands.

>> Listen to this. >> My wife is like putting me over here. We have horses and stuff and it was uh some lights. Just regular What are they?

They're just three lights that are not this thing. Well, >> I'm not tracking the horses and the lights. >> What are you talking about?

>> Yeah, it was pretty stupid. I g gathering. >> So, yeah, I bought one just to check it out and then went back on it Amazon and went back online and I looked and they had them like 20% off. So, I ended up buying five. Now, they're sitting in my office in a box. >> What do the lights have to do with the horses? So I'd be able to see them instead of trying to see the horses at night. >> They're like flood lights.

>> Yeah, like flood lights. But yeah, they are. >> What was the total cost of all the lights? >> I don't know. I think it was probably 200 bucks, maybe more.

>> 200 bucks. And you saw this from an influencer or somebody? >> Yeah, I saw it on Facebook. >> Well, did they do the job? Did they at least >> He doesn't know. They're still >> I only got I got one up and it lights the whole area.

>> I still got five, >> sir. It's a It's called a return.

I'm I'm past that already.

>> OH, YOU'RE PAST. I'M PAST THAT ALREADY.

>> WELL, you might have to replace the the the original. So, you know, >> Ken, do you need any lights?

>> Any horses, >> Me and Animals? I just kind of watch them on TV. Thank you, sir. That's very good. Do we have another uh Do we have a specific uh Do we have Let's get a couple more. One more of those. I saw hands right this this gentleman in the orange shirt with the lovely bald head back there. Stand up, sir. What's your name? >> Brad. >> Yes. Brad, tell us the dumb thing or what? Tell us your story. >> I don't think it's dumb. We'll we'll find out. >> Why are you standing then?

>> So, I'm a cyclist and I watched a show NorCal Cycling >> and they kept talking about ketones and so I decided to look at go on to

ketones and they give you energy when you're doing a race cuz I race my bike.

but they're like 120 bucks for like 26 and they're like this big. So for months and months and months, maybe even over a year, I decided not to buy them. But

then I finally went to the site the other day and they were on sale for 80 bucks and my wife saw the expense which

my lovely wife I can see her now >> her hand is in her head and she's just she's just like called me on the phone and asked me what it was and I was like

um it's something I thought I needed.

>> That's what you said.

>> Yeah. >> I thought you would have went hard on the idea for cycling.

>> You waited a year. >> Well, I don't know if I need it yet. We'll see if it works.

>> Oh, >> anybody know if ketones work?

>> I don't think anybody in this room heard of a ketone. >> Did I get scammed?

>> What? >> I I don't know.

>> Look it up. Keystone. Ketones energy.

Ketone IQ. Ketone.

>> I don't think it's a good idea. I really don't. >> I think you should talk to this other guy and you can band together. Send it all back. >> You don't think buying ketone IQ is high IQ? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. Okay. >> But hey, I appreciate that you're out there cycling. >> Yes. >> By the way, just want to say to all cyclists, >> could you guys get over a little bit on behalf? No, no, no. Don't give me the mic, Wes. No, cuz they don't. No. No.

>> They Yes. >> We're We're in the cars. You're in the bike. Get over on the side a little bit.

>> Drives me bananas.

>> We had a whole Happy George Camel and I did a whole talk about that. >> Yes. And I'm so sorry not to pick on you, but yes. at like five o'clock during rush hour on this small and I'm like do you hate your family? Like why do you want to die? >> You hate humanity. >> Why do you want to die? >> You're holding us all up. I just want to get home.

>> Anyway, fun stuff. We do love you, sir.

Just there's a lot of pent up anger at cyclists like I've got. Okay. I have a fun question, I think. Is there anybody in here that's willing to share uh maybe an ethically questionable move you've made to save money? Yes, I see that hand

right here. Keep your hand up so we can get to you. Stand up, sir.

>> I like you. What is your name?

>> Anthony. Anthony. What is this ethically questionable thing you did to save money? So, I ran this by a couple of my friends. >> That was a good decision.

It's It's okay. Well, I'm a travel nurse

and uh I go throughout the whole country kind of working everywhere. And I was doing a stint in Harlem. And when I was

there, I stayed in a apartment that was completely empty. Didn't have a bed or anything. So I ordered one online that had like I think it was like a sixmon return policy

and I was only there for 6 months and it

came in a box.

So, I made it up to the top of the apartment and uh it was a free return

and they picked it up in the city and

technically I didn't need it anymore.

So, >> and it was it was within the six-month window. >> It was within the six-month window, but I think I violated the spirit of the

return >> because you slept on it. >> You slept on it. >> For how many months did you sleep on it?

>> 6 months. >> Oh, right at the wire.

>> Right up to the wire. You need to go see this gentleman with the extra flood lights. He needs some mentoring from you. That's pretty questionable. It's It's right in that gray zone.

>> I mean, how much money did you save?

>> Oh, how much money did you save? It was one of those uh nice like king ones. I

went I I got free sheets out of it and

>> Did you keep the sheets? Did you keep the sheets? >> I did cuz they let you.

>> Okay. I want the George Camel THING. HOW MANY OF Y'ALL HAVE USED something and returned it? Like, well, no. Oh, shame on all of you. Shame on >> Well, wait a second. I want the audience to vote. >> Does it depend on what it is?

>> No, >> you've used it. >> Well, like sometimes you get a pair of shoes and you're like, these are terrible. Like, I can't wear after one day, not 6 months at the office.

>> Okay, I'm saying you walk around for a day in them, you're like, >> show of hands. If you think Anthony was unethical, raise your hand.

>> I I bought it with every intention of returning. >> No judgment. This is just right. If if you would have done what Anthony did, RAISE YOUR HAND.

>> I love it. There's some cheap people in this room. >> I'd split. George would be so proud, wouldn't he? >> Yeah. George used a vacuum cleaner, y'all, for like 5 years at Costco. And he was like, "It doesn't work anymore." And I'm like, "Yeah, cuz you've been using it for 5 years and did a return." I was like, "Oh my gosh." >> Funny.

>> Anthony, you're a trooper. You're a trooper.

>> All right. So, I have a question. This is going to take some some, you know, >> don't make me feel in the blank. I don't know where it is. >> I don't know. Is that okay to say? Take some balls from the audience. >> Rachel Cruz.

>> Then I thought the ladies in here anyways. Okay. When and what was the

last marital argument you had about money? >> It's going to take It's going to take some courage. >> There we go. In the back of the room.

>> I see. That's what I want. Stand up.

Stand up. >> Tell us what it is. >> She's not even here to DEFEND US. SO,

>> WATCH. FIRST OF ALL, what's your name? >> My name's Andrew. I actually called six or eight weeks ago about my type 1 diabetic daughter and I want to thank you guys for having >> I remember that call. >> I wanted to thank you for how you handled that and she's doing great and I wanted to appreciate you guys. That's right. Who was on? >> I remember that. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. But my friend, I was telling you her daughter had it. Yes, I totally remember talking. Who was it?

George, who was with me, George or >> Del? It was Ken. It was you and Ken.

You made such an impact on >> boy. I feel pretty stupid right now.

>> No. All right. You guys take >> If you gave me a few more details, I would know. But uh glad she's doing well. >> No, she's doing great. I appreciate that. But the last marital conflict that we had over money was I'm into baseball.

I'm a Dbacks fan. Go Dbacks. They're going to do something this year. I really do think so.

>> I'm a big Diamondbacks. Diamondbacks.

>> Yeah, I know. You got to be careful. >> Don't shake YOUR HEAD. YOU CAN'T SHAKE your head. Don't be I know you.

No. No. We just misheard you.

>> You said Dbacks really fast.

>> It sounded like something else. That's all. >> Well, I want I want to I We don't We live in Santan Valley. Go Santan Valley.

So, it's a 45 50-minute drive to the stadium. So, we don't go to games all the time. So, I want the baseball package to watch the games on home. We have had couple of intense moments of

fellowship last year about how many games I was watching a week and then but then I promptly blamed my son for it uh because he wants to watch them too and so I tried to bring him into it and my wife didn't fall for a pro move by the way. >> I got four kids. I have the most kids.

I'll use them for anything. And um but

anyways that didn't work either. And so um so she told me no and I was like all right I guess that that ships over. But then this year, um, I was able to say, "Well, I get a student discount because I got one last year. It was only $120 last year." And she gave me the go-ahad.

She's like, "Go ahead. Just do it. It's it's going to be fine." And I said, "Cool. It was $220." And she didn't say

anything about it until 5 minutes after I did it. She's like, "It's $220.

You said go ahead. I didn't know what to do." So that was like the last major thing that we got into. >> How'd that finish out? What's >> I'm rushing the game before the thing started tonight. So, we're doing just fine. >> Great.

>> Well, guys, if you can get away with it, that's a great move. All right. Thanks for sharing, guys. That was good.

>> Uh, do we have another one of those? These are really good. Okay, I've got a question. We'll do one more and we'll get back to uh your questions. Does anybody have a really weird or peculiar

hobby that cost, you know, a decent amount of change? Anybody got a hobby right here? I see. Oh, I see two right here. Let's start back here. Right in the middle with the hoodie. Yes. Stand up. We'll get to you. Here comes Katie.

Oh, I can't wait. I love this. Real quick, tell us your name and what the hobby is. >> My name is Margaret. >> Okay, Margaret. >> And it's not my hobby, but it's a family thing. >> Okay. >> Club sports.

>> Club sports. Like as in what? Soccer.

Basketball. >> Yeah. My son's in club soccer. My daughter's in club softball. My daughter plays golf. And all our money goes to

sports. I feel like it's a confession.

And is this is this a confession?

>> Sports dad. >> Oh, you just turned it down. >> And somebody didn't play sports growing up and somebody did.

>> This got a little deeper than I thought he was going to.

>> Now, wait a second. You just stood up and just totally threw him under the bus and backed up over him and he still got the thumbs up. Are do you guys need Do you guys need an intervention or are you guys okay? You got margin?

>> We got margin. >> So, you can afford this? That's what we just spend our money on our weekends and her nights. >> She is not happy about her life.

>> Would you would you like us to weigh in on this or No.

>> No.

>> I appreciate the honesty.

>> Well, I will say this cuz you you didn't ask me too, but I'm going to tell you anyway. You guys need to have No, I'm serious. You guys need to have a real conversation cuz what has been done in just here tonight has got some seriousness under it. And I'm going to tell you something else to you, sir. And I grew up playing every sport. I did played everything. But I grew up in an

era where there was no club sports, right? It was just wreck league and and all that stuff. Your kids are probably not going to go pro.

>> We know that. >> Well, then why are we spending all of our money and all of our time on something that is not going to ROI? You don't have to answer it. And I'm not being unkind, but I'm just going to be really honest with you because I think underneath the jokes and the thumbs up and everything, we're a little stressed out.

>> We're not stressed out financially about it. We're just stressed out. We're stressed out relationally. >> I can't do cuz we're spending the money on that.

>> I think you guys need to have a date and let's cut back. The kids are going to be fine. All right.

That's a fun confession there.

>> I'm very passionate about that because >> I agree. Yeah. That and that's a hot button topic. you put that out on the internet. >> Well, I know that about travel sports.

>> I'm going to get killed for that. But the data backs me up >> and and all the specialization in youth sports right now. Let's make it very clear. And this is a guy who loves sports, but the specialization is a con. And

they're conning good people out of money. And they're praying on our desire

for our kids to be stars. And I'm not picking on this couple. All I'm saying, we're all susceptible to that. And at some point, we got to say, wait a second. What is most important? Is it Johnny playing on every travel team or is that we actually have a life? And so, I'm just going to throw that out there at risk of being the grumpy old man, but that's what I think. So, there you go.

All right. Up next, welcome to the mic, Robbie. Robbie, come on down. Yeah. Give

him some love. Keep up the energy. There he is. All right, Robbie. Close to the mic. Tell us where you're from. uh from Gilbert, Arizona. >> Nice.

Oh, strong representation from Gilbert tonight. Good to see. Good to see.

What's your question? >> Uh so my question is um I've been working 7 days a week for the the last 2 years. U I'm trying to figure out how to create some urgency with my wife surrounding our debt, which is about 150,000. Um I think I've tried

everything possible, but I'm just trying to create urgency with her.

>> Is she here tonight? >> She is not here tonight. I did invite her, but she didn't come. >> Dad gum it. >> Yeah, >> why not?

>> I don't think she likes this. >> Yeah, she might not.

>> It might be a bad word in our house. So, we've been >> I don't think there's any might about it. >> So, when you when you guys sit down and the number comes out, $150,000 of debt.

What's her What's her response to that?

Not the Ramsay plan, not the the way you want to get out of it, just the debt. How does that make her feel? I think it's it it's been going on for so long.

I think she's kind of accepted that that's just the way things have to be.

Um yeah, I don't think she she thinks too much about it and just kind of thinks that's the way life is right now.

But um I feel like I'm working hard and working a lot and I'd like to see the needle move, but I just don't know how to motivate her.

>> And what part of that is she unwilling to move on? Is it a certain line item on the budget? Is there something you want to do like sell a vehicle and she's not on board? Show tell us real things that you're wanting like moves that you're wanting to make that she's not on board with. >> Um I think all things are on the table.

Um selling vehicles, cutting back on expenses, um selling what needs to be sold that we don't use. Um like I said, I think everything's on the table for me. >> And you've said that to her. So, cuz my question is, I don't know if she's a numbers person, but if if you say we have $150,000 of debt, and we could move 50 of it just by selling off these vehicles, and then you're kind of laying out the timeline of, you know, how quickly you could be free.

I don't know if you've done that. Have you? >> Um, I've done it in the past. It it seems like it's so far away that it's kind of hard to accept, though.

>> Okay.

>> At least four years away.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's a real thing. So,

>> the hard part with this is I I do think that most of us in here have had some sort of an iPad at moment or some sort of a catalyst moment. And sometimes with couples, it doesn't happen at the same time. >> Right. >> Right. It'd be wonderful if it did and then you're on board. That's what happened with Sam and I happened at the same time. But if it doesn't, it's that ongoing conversation and that continuous

feeling of it. Right. And the way that you can help push on that is to tell her how you're feeling. Uh, I'm just feeling trapped. I don't want to feel like this forever. I feel like I just go to work and go to work and we still feel broke.

And if you're telling her constantly how you're feeling and that you have a a hope for a different future, that's the best you can do, right? And then at some point, you've got to get to get to her heart on it and figure out what is it on her end that's keeping her from that because we all have a desire to be free, all of us. So, my guess is not that it

doesn't bother her or that she doesn't care about it. there's probably something deeper under there. Maybe there's a fear because the truth is she doesn't know. She doesn't know for sure

like inside of herself what's on the other side of that sacrifice. And I think that holds a lot of people back. What if I do this and I sell the car and he works extra and we still don't get to it, right? That's very very scary. It's an unknown. It's fear of the unknown. So if I were in your shoes, I'd be a detective. Like I'd be a full-time detective trying to understand really what is it that's bothering her so you can turn that screw.

>> Okay. >> And you may have had so much control over the money and all of it's on you that she doesn't feel the weight of the

finances in your home at all to feel anything right stress or whatnot. You're taking it all on. You're trying to be the hero in the situation. And the truth is it's both of your debts, right? Like you guys are in it together. What is what consists of the 150,000? Is it consumer? >> Um couple consumer loans and then student loans. >> And student loans. Both of yours just >> uh the consumer is ours together.

Student loans are mine >> are yours. Yeah. Yeah. >> What's your income? >> Uh last year our gross was uh 141.

>> I think the hard part is sometimes if one spouse is so passionate about it and wants to do it, they're carrying the all the emotional weight >> that the other spouse doesn't honestly have to feel anything. >> Is that what's going on? Is that what's going on? >> Uh, it's tough.

You know, I have a 14-year-old daughter and, you know, we don't spend a lot of time together because I'm always at work. So, um, >> No, no. I I get it. I heard what Jade said.

I heard Rachel said. I'm curious. You were saying, "Right." Right. I want to know like, is that what they're describing?

Is that what's going on in your house? She just has no belief that it could ever happen, so she's just resigned. Or is it she doesn't think it matters?

you know, >> so she doesn't have hope. >> But have you have hope in that?

>> Have you shared what Jade said? Have you told her how you're burning out?

>> I mean, on occasion, but you know, I sometimes it sounds like complaining and I don't want to complain. I just want to work. >> Wait a second. Wait a second. I'm starting to pick up on something.

>> I don't think, and there's no shame in this, friend. There's no shame, but I'm taking a chance here. I don't think that you have sat with her and poured your heart out to her about there's the emotion right there. I don't think that she actually knows how exhausted you are physically. I don't think she knows how exhausted you are emotionally. I don't think she knows that your heart is broken in two because you can't spend time with your daughter.

I don't think she knows it because you've built up in your mind that you've got to be a good man. And I'm here to tell you, my friend, I'm looking at a great man,

but I think

I think that's what's going on. Tell me if I'm wrong. That sounds right. What are you afraid of when you tell her if she were sitting here?

I'd get you to tell her that, but what do you think her real reaction would be if you put yourself out there? And I know I'm asking a lot for you to be that vulnerable. What do you think she would How do you think she'd react?

>> Um, I think that if I sat down and poured my heart out to her that she would understand. I just don't know that I've, you know, I've done that yet.

>> And that's okay. And I don't bring that out to put any ounce of shame on you, my friend. But I'm telling you, if you care about your marriage, if you care about your 14-year-old, if you care about living a life that you desire, you have to do this. You are in a danger zone.

man is not meant to work seven days a week and never share what's really going on. I also think that you're in control of the money. And I think you got to let her know how you feel and then you got to say, "Babe, do you trust me?" Because if you trust me, I can get us out of this by leading us. Well, one of the things we got to do is sell the car.

I'll go first. You see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. >> You got to lead. But you can't lead if

she doesn't know how you really feel.

And so, I got something for you. Okay.

I got I got two things for you, but I can only hand Could you bring the bottle of wine? >> Oh, love. >> This is very exciting. I got some flowers for you.

>> You're going to go home with these flowers. Rachel's bringing a nice bottle of red wine. Okay. And you guys are going to you're going to have a moment.

You're going to say, "Ken, put me up to this. He's a loudmouth on the Ramsay show. Blame it all on me. I can handle it. >> It's his fault. >> But you need to have a conversation and share your heart. Be vulnerable." Vulnerable is strong and you're a strong man. You got me. All right, brother. We love you. We appreciate you. Give him some love. That's really cool. Really fun. By the way,

I've said this the entire time I've worked for Dave. I have the spiritual gift of giving away Dave stuff. So, just got a little budget of fun stuff back there. Maybe you'll be lucky tonight.

All right. If you do a good job. Hey, that was awesome. Wasn't that fun? Hey, I want to bring that back really quick because I I jumped into coach mode, but I I would like y'all's perspective from

the female side of things on what you would add to that and and when it when a couple like that is completely in different lanes. Anything you want to add to that? I don't want to miss that.

>> No, I think it's I think it's an important and I think it's more um it's more of the marriage issue than the money issue, right? The issue is vulnerability not fully being known for whatever the reason, right? And I think we all can have elements of that. Um, you know, whether his fear is weak, I don't know what it is, right? Like that whatever's driving that wall to be up

and this need to be the hero, be the

person that just takes care of it. I'm not going to worry about anyone else that that then puts up your spouse on

the other side of that wall, right? And I even had Dr. John Deloney. as the visual of the bricks in the backpack, but you know, and you carry this around and your spouse has no clue, has no clue what you're carrying around. If you don't share it and open that openness then creates that teamwork and that sidebyside connection with spouses. And again, there's always going to be one spouse that's like crazy Ramsay and obsessed. Okay, we know who you are.

Like, there's always going to be that one and there's always going to be the one that's probably rolls their eyes a little bit, but they're on board because they love their spouse. And I really believe wherever he is, I don't know where he went, that your wife is a good woman and if you have a great marriage, she's going to she's going to embrace that, right? And and if she doesn't, that's a marriage problem, right? We have to like be talking about that.

And so that's what's wild about the Ramsey Show is so many of the money calls we get, >> oh yeah, >> it's not a money issue. Money is the symptom of what's really going on.

>> Yeah. Okay. Up next on the mic, give some applause to Maria. Maria, welcome.

>> Hi, Maria. >> Hello. >> Where you from? >> Tucson. >> Tucson. Let's go. Nice. Nice.

>> Wildat country. >> There it is. I get it. I watch the sports. >> Great. >> My Michigan Wolverines pretty much destroyed you guys during the final four. I want to throw that out there.

>> Yeah, that was such a disaster.

>> You can boo all you want, but we won.

All right. Thank you very much. Sorry, Maria. Back to you. I I couldn't help it. I'm a shameful sports fan. All right, go ahead. What's your question? >> All right, so my question is um and for

a variety of different reasons, we recently had my adult son move back home. So part of that was he was in a condo. The the HOA was very defunct. He was going to pay off debt, got out of a a not fantastic relationship. So we are

charging him roommate rent. And the

question is, do we return it to him?

when he is ready to move out or if there is something he

>> I'm confused. >> I I jumped I jumped ahead and shook my head. >> I'm very Oh, you said no.

>> Wait, really? >> Yeah. No, he needs to freaking >> How old is he? >> How old is he?

>> 31.

>> No, you don't give him the money back.

He's a daggum Mcrown man.

He doesn't know it's coming back to him.

>> But he was paying rent at the other place. >> Okay, MAKE YOUR CASE.

>> WELL, OKAY. WHAT'S YOUR What's your financial situation? >> I am not debtree. >> Okay, never mind. Now, >> does it matter if you were worth $3 billion? I wouldn't give him that money back. >> He's a 31-year-old grown man, Jade.

>> Yes. >> I know. But have you heard die with zero? This idea that you you know what you mean that you're going to be >> Stop it. I feel like that's the

>> that's like the point of that book.

>> Okay, that would be my question. What caused you to charge him rent to begin with versus just say, "Hey, he can just stay here for a while." >> Oh, I guess that's a really good question. Um, I think it was just the sense of, "Hey, you're here. We want to

make sure that you understand you still need to pay something. This is this is

not forever, right? This is a temporary plan," which it is. Um, and I think it

was going to be a very temporary plan until we both went through FPU and all of the sudden now he's like, "Oh, no. I got to pay off everything, including the student loans, before I buy a house." >> Yeah. But he can rent somewhere else.

>> Yes, he can. He could. Yes.

>> Yeah. Yes. That's what I would say.

>> What are we talking about here? I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. >> What is WHAT DOES THIS GUY DO FOR a living? Um, he he works for the US

Postal System. >> Great. What does he make?

>> Not a ton. >> I didn't ask that.

>> What does he make?

>> Less than 70,000 a year.

>> Okay.

First off, >> listen, I love that you brought him back in. >> That's okay. I love that you're charging him rent. Your instincts were right. I hate the idea of giving him his money

back. He's 31. He needs to get back out

there. He can take a couple extra routes. He can do something more. He's a grown freaking man. Get out of the

house. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. I just call him >> That feels like a very like mommy thing.

Do you know what I mean? Like that you would do for >> my reason I'm pushing back a little bit.

Just here's my case. If he was expecting

it and he was like listen I am like give

me my money back all of this. Now, the fact that you have debt, all that, but if she was standing there and she was worth $10 million and she's like, "Hey, you know what? I'm gonna help you with a down payment on her or whatever the situation, >> right? But he needs to get on his feet." Like, he needs to get >> 100% 100%.

So, he does need to be set up.

>> that I think I think that's different.

the idea of saving up a pot of money for

a specific time. >> The parent is doing it without the child knowing right. But there's also I would think that there are certain parameters that I would want in place like okay this person is >> 100%. >> And that's what's missing I think right now. >> Yes. >> What's missing is this young man who you

love needs

gumption. He doesn't need a refund.

And that's what you're saying. I'm just telling y'all. Listen, I'm in a greatest mood tonight, by the way. I want everybody to know I'm having the time of my freaking life. But I'm gonna tell the truth when somebody asks this. And here's what happens. I'm going to go back to something earlier with the with the sister. We create unrealistic

expectations that become unmet

expectations. I'm going to say that again because that was so good. You all need to get that. Okay. When we do stuff like this, I'm not judging you. It's a sweet heart of a mama idea,

>> but you asked.

>> And Rachel hasn't made her case.

>> I have one more thing. >> We create, okay, I'm gonna say this. You create unrealistic expectations that you do it again. And then when you can't do it again or don't believe you should do it again, you create unmet expectations.

And unrealistic expectations always lead to unmet expectations. And on the other side of that is bitterness and resentment. And that's why I'm so strong on that. >> Okay. I am more Give Yeah, we can give Ken a hand.

I would say I'm way more passionate with him getting out of the house. Regardless of if you refund him or not, I don't care if you do or not. That doesn't bother me. Apparently, it very much bothers the audience and Jade and Ken.

Uh but it does bother me that he's still living there. He has a full-time job. He's 31. Even just for him dating.

>> Oh, no. No. This is recent. This is a recent development. Wait. So, how long has he been living with you? >> Um, so a Well, it'll

>> a year. >> I heard it.

>> Okay. I DON'T LIKE WHERE THE I TRIED TO HELP YOU. I TRIED to help you.

>> I also want to know how much rent he's been paying. >> No. Well, okay. So, it's it's He's just renting a room, so it's low rent.

>> You need a number. >> How low? >> He just needs to get out of the house. >> A number. >> Give the number. Give the number. He needs to get out, though. >> $500.

>> It's just a room. >> Okay. But if you split a twobedroom, >> I bet he goes in the kitchen though.

>> No, no, no, no.

>> J all the time. >> It really, it really doesn't. The financial impact has been not like negligible. Nothing. >> Okay. >> Um the idea behind the refund was

save it up and then when he's when he's ready to buy the house, when the market is favorable, he finds what he needs, whatever, >> he's ready financially and it goes towards the house.

>> Yeah. I wouldn't let him know it if he decided to do it. I don't care. I'm more passionate that he needs to get out. He needs to move out. He needs to be a man and and pay his own rent to a landlord that can ask you this, right? That's what I'm more >> passionate about. I'm going to frame it another way. Let's pretend he was still in the other apartment. He never moved back in. Would you be setting aside $500 every single month to put towards his down payment on his house?

>> Oh, great, Jade.

Oh,

>> that's how you know. That's the old Dave Ramsey. That's what Dave used to do.

He'd flip it. >> I'm going to tell y'all something. If I smoked, I'd have had a cigarette about 5 minutes ago.

>> I'm going to tell you right now. You're a sweet mama. I got something for I got something for you. >> Been great. >> I got a fun gift for you. You're not going to like this, but I'm going to give it to you. Oh, boy. Hold on.

>> Oh, wait. Ken, what are you doing?

>> Just be quiet.

I'm giving you these little these little baby Nike shoes to remind you that he can't wear these anymore. It's time for him to go. Y'all give her some love.

>> Okay. On point. >> I'm on fire tonight. ON POINT.

>> GOOD NIGHT, EVERYBODY. GOOD NIGHT.

Got to love the baby shoes.

>> This next question is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do next, Yrefi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a

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>> Up next is May. Welcome May to the mic.

Hi May. >> Hi. >> How are you? >> Good. How are you guys? >> Good. What's your question? >> If you could go back and ask your 23-year-old self, what piece of advice

would you say?

>> So, if we could go back to our 23-year-old selves and give one piece of advice >> or multiple >> or multiple. Okay. Who wants to go first? >> Well, I think I'd have to go back a couple more years for it to work. like for >> I like that. Take us >> I was already in a lot of debt by 23. Um

>> I pass or life >> both. >> The the life advice I would give is

understand the tension

between patience and persistence.

Um, you know, when you're young, 23, and I remember at 23 specifically, uh, I happened to be worked for the governor of Virginia, and I thought I was going to be the next US senator, and then I thought I was going to be president of the United States, and I thought it was going to happen in 10 years.

>> You know, just a 23-year-old, no clue, super I'd vote for you, Ken. >> I appreciate that. I appreciate your vote. I believe this audience would as well, >> but that's not what this is about. And so, I was a super ambitious kid. And I

think what I've learned over the last

almost 30 years is that there is a

natural tension. And what I mean by that is like we desire, and this really helps those of you in the baby steps here. We want to get through the baby steps. We want financial peace. We want to win professionally, whatever that dream is.

And we go after it. And we forget that

the magic is the getting up every day

and chopping the wood, the persistence, showing up.

But the magic is when we show up and we know it's going to take some time. And very few times can we control the timing.

And so to embrace that tension between I'm getting up and I'm hustling, I'm getting after it and I know it's still going to take time and I've got to be patient. And a lot of people think that patience is in is a passive

word. It's not passive. It's very active, but it is in the mindset and it is in the spirit to wait on the good things. And my one of my favorite scriptures comes from Isaiah. Those who wait on the Lord will mount up on wings like eagles and soar. They shall run and

not grow weary. They shall walk and not faint. And here's what's interesting.

What Isaiah does there really quick is that he shows us different seasons of life and different paces. And then we get some seasons where you're soaring.

And those of you that are in baby steps six and seven, you're soaring. We got a lot of people in this room that are just walking and hoping not to faint. Come on. Can I get an amen on that one?

And so I think you got to embrace that. So that would be the life advice is to understand for anybody who wants to accomplish anything in any area of life, you got to get up and show up, but you got to also wait on the results.

Uh, I would probably go back to 23-year-old Rachel and I I would I would

tell her be confident in who God created you to be because there's only one you.

He's just created you. And so, trust

your inner voice. Trust your gut. Trust who you are that it's beautiful and wonderful. And that goes into like the I think all lanes. So I think back for me at this age I was traveling and starting to speak and all of this and I remember looking up I was probably like 26 and I did so much like my love my dad. Love him. God bless you Dave. Wonderful man.

Uh but I I would I would teach and talk

and speak kind of like he did so long. I

really tried to emulate him because it was like okay I'll just do what he did because it's working and I'll do what he did. And I remember waking up at like 26 and I'm like, I am not a balding 60-year-old man. Like I I'm young. I have a baby and I'm pregnant and I like to shop and I

budget, but like what does this look like, right? What does this money stuff look like for me? And the moment I found my voice, it's amazing. It's amazing how you live life and it's not exhausting.

You're not trying to perform for everyone else. And that also bleeds into your lifestyle and money. When you try to be like everyone else, keeping up with everyone else, what everyone else is doing, what everyone else is buying, what everyone else is looking like, driving houses, they I mean, when you just try to be like everybody else, you're going to not only be spinning your wheels, you're going to be discontent and spending money on things that you really don't value. And so, focusing on you, who you are, who God

created you to be. There's only one you. So, be Yeah. Be you.

All right. I've been thinking sitting over here thinking about this for a couple minutes while you guys were saying yours. And you know, I got to say

there's like the the practical stuff.

Like if I could go back to my 23-year-old self, I'd say you're going to try to start a business when you're like 26, bypass the first idea and go straight to the second idea because the first idea was a failure, right? So, it's like little things that I could go back and tweak. Um, but I think in all of it,

when I think about 23-year-old me, I had just gotten married. Sam and I had not discovered our debt just yet. That was going to come a year later. And I think I would just say like go easy on yourself because the next couple of years are going to be really, really hard and you're going to be put to the test.

But this is a good thing. Like tests are there to make you strong and this is a really, really good thing. in the end, you're going to be complete and mature and lacking nothing, just like it says. So, I think I would just tell myself, hey, go easy on yourself.

Go with the flow.

>> Okay. Thank you guys.

>> Yeah. Thank you.

>> All right. So, uh, we ready for a little ask me anything? I'm going to ask one that has nothing to do with me, but this is great.

What is your favorite conspiracy theory?

One of us up here really buys into these things harder than the rest of us.

>> Oh man, I have so many.

>> You got to pick a favorite.

>> Um, probably because it was kind of all in the news. I We did not land on the moon in 1969.

>> Wow. Okay. Show a round of applause if

you agree with Rachel.

>> Round of applause if you think, well, she spends too much time reading rumors.

>> She's cray cray.

Well, very vocal group.

>> Okay. >> Now, there happened to be a cameraman on the moon so happened to get everybody.

Come on. >> You're telling me or all that fake job

that no one at NASA has blown the whistle? >> There's been two. There's been two. Yes.

>> I don't know. I need more information. >> Just saying. >> All right, that's good. >> And we all circle the moon recently.

We're all like, "Oh my god, it's amazing. I thought we've been there walking around 69." >> Nobody got to help. >> That's what I'm saying. Y'all stayed in the ship. You didn't get out. I got to move on. This is killing me.

What is the weirdest habit that you have that you're willing to admit publicly?

>> I mean, I have a lot of >> weird habits. >> Weird is a strong word. Ken, >> the word you used one time was peculiar.

>> Yeah. I am very choosy. I'm very thoughtful. Some might say intentional.

>> Others might say wise >> or OCD.

>> Her your your um cleanliness. I'm kind

of like Niles from Frraasier. Do you guys remember Niles? He would like wipe everything off first. >> Is that your weird habit that you're uh >> I can tell you a habit that's also a pet peeve that others like if you use the

restroom, you have to close the lid before you flush.

>> You mean like the total lid, not >> Yes, it m it. And so >> you think projectiles or >> Yes. That is my number It's a pet peeve.

If like people come to my house and I they're like, "Hey, can I use your restroom?" And like afterwards I'm like looking around the corner. I'm like, "They didn't close the lid. What is wrong with these people?" >> And I don't know what it's like to be you. That has got to be exhausting.

>> I'm very clean. I like cleanliness. We

are eating back there and she's like, "I'm going to keep my plate on my lap cuz I don't I don't know how I feel about this." >> One lady is very passionate in her support for you. >> Listen, inside clothes versus outside clothes. >> Um, >> thank you. My wife's going to be very upset that I'm admitting this, but you all are going to enjoy this cuz I've shared it.

Okay, everybody makes fun of me on this weirdest habit that I'll admit publicly. >> Um, I'm a very neurotic sleeper, >> so I have lots of supports. I have a fulllength body pillow that goes from my ankles to my elbows. >> Pregnant woman.

>> My wife bought it for pregnancy. Didn't like it.

"It's kind of interesting." I tried it.

I love it. I haven't gone back. I'm on

my third one now. It's great. And then I have an eye mask cuz I got to have total pitch black darkness. And then I recently discovered the greatest health phenomenon in the last 5 years. Mouth tape.

So I'm mask, mouth tape, body pillow,

and I sleep like a baby.

Not ashamed of it.

>> Oh lord. >> All right. All right. >> You're like a mid-40s woman, Ken.

>> Oh, I'm a very well-rested man. Okay, one more here, maybe. Uh, let's see.

What's a fun one you guys You guys are in on this, too. What do you see there that you want to answer? >> Uh, what is a completely irrational fear that you have?

>> I have one. >> Go ahead. You go first. >> You go first. I And I think it's going to happen in my lifetime. So, I need you all to support me.

>> This happens. >> I'm so excited right now. >> I I really do. And I play this out in my head sometimes.

I I really do have a fear that I am going to be convicted of murder and that I didn't do it. But you're in the courtroom and you're on the stand and you're like, I did not do it. And they find you guilty and you like, yes, >> you go to jail. >> Yes, y'all.

And I'm just like, I didn't murder them. I promise. So, just know I'm innocent if anything ever happens.

It's all the It's all my It's all my stuff. If I ever mysteriously disappear, you all look into her first. There's some deep-seated stuff. >> I really am. I just don't want to be convicted for a crime I did not commit.

>> I appreciate that. Do you have a uh irrational fear?

>> I mean, you do. >> Nothing is coming to mind.

>> Germs.

>> Well, no. Germs. I'm not afraid I'm going to get sick or anything. I just think they're gross.

So, it's >> You know what? This is silly. Every time I go in a tunnel, a lot of times in New York, the Midtown tunnel, whatever, tunnel. I always think that the bricks are going to break and the water's going to come in.

Look at the people shaking their heads. I feel so seen. >> I always close my eyes. Do you close your eyes the entire time?

>> Close your eyes, but I am like, "Let's get through the tunnel." >> Okay. I I have a little bit of one. And it's not completely irrational. Like on the highway, I don't drive behind the big tractor trailer trucks that have all the cars loaded on it.

>> Again, people are with us tonight. Okay.

And one more fun one here. Let's see. Uh oh. What is one thing you spend too much money on and you don't regret?

>> Ooh, you all are interesting.

>> I think that's me. >> What is it? >> So, I love house plants, like indoor plants. I have tons of My house is like a jungle. Um, in my kitchen alone, I think I have uh maybe 15 plants. I have a lot. It's

beautiful though. It looks nice. Um, it's not weird.

>> Not at all. I but there's a plant shop in my city that I like and I can just go in there and just >> Well, let let's finish this out. What is a What does a really nice plant set you back? >> Uh the last it was like a little ponytail plant that I bought and it was like $210.

>> Wow.

>> $210 on a plant I've never heard of.

>> Yeah. >> But it's probably good for the oxygen and very >> Yeah. It went in my husband's office and I was like, "Doesn't this make it so much nicer to work every day?" And he was like, >> "Yeah, I guess so." >> Do you have something like this that you uh overspend? What What was the thing they said? Spend too much money on.

That's all relative, I guess.

>> Yeah. Um I mean, I would say the the it's probably wasteful, but I do it because I like the convenience and I like it. Valley parking at the airport.

>> I appreciate that as well. >> I do. I'm like, I don't want to be chugging through a through a parking garage. Not that I'm going to spend a little bit more and I'm going to Yeah, >> I do the same thing. >> Oh, that makes me feel better. >> I'm a convenience animal.

>> Give me convenience. >> I need to get in. I say hi to a nice person who's very happy to see me right

in the airport. >> That's a spending love language. Convenience. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Speaking of convenience and selfare, >> the thing I like to spend money on with zero guilt, >> spa day with my wife.

>> Thank you. I do. I do. >> Facial massage. >> Oh, no. facial. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm a guy. I like a great massage. Yeah.

>> Like the steam. Like the sauna.

>> Oh, the amenities. >> I like the mineral pool. >> Wow. >> I like sleeping in the recovery room or whatever they call that when you come out. >> What is that called? >> Relaxation room. >> Relaxation room. I got to tell you, I like until Stacy's like, "You're snoring.

>> I do love that." >> Sipping on your tea. Good.

>> You guys are very fun. Thank you for the fun ask me anything questions. It's very exciting. We never get those questions.

All right. Uh Rachel, >> up next, I think we had actually another question from the audience. They they're not going to come up to the mic though, but Kelsey, who was in the room, she submitted a question. Should my emergency fund be in a high yield savings account, audience?

>> Yes. And if so, where is one of the best places I can put that money?

>> Oh, you guys already know where we're going with this. >> Well, let me tell the why behind the what first, cuz I think that's important. First off, yeah, for money, you want to keep it someplace liquid that you can easily get to it. So, it's not invested, but you can get to it.

So, that's a great place to keep an emergency fund. Obviously, it's another place that's separate from your normal checking because I'm the type of person I need it separated. I don't want to accidentally spend it. So, an HYSA allows it to be separate.

And also, it's insured, right? It's FDIC insured. So, that's really great. And uh Yeah.

Y'all yelled it out. Who do we love?

>> Fair. >> Fair wins. Like a fourth of the audience. >> Fair. >> Fair winds. No, but for real, Fairwind's credit union, you guys, they are amazing. We have started partnering with them and they are I mean, honestly, they're a credit union, but in the banking institution, they're the only bank that I mean really is for you.

Like, they are for you getting out of debt. They celebrate your financial journey. They love the Ramsay baby steps and they really do partner beside you.

And so, they're wonderful. So, they have the smart bundle, which is a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, like what we were just talking about. You can actually have up to 10 high yield savings accounts. So, if you love having different funds for different things, you know, in your account, you can see all of it. It's all right there. You can open up up to 10.

And then you also get the Ramsay Beware debit card, which we love. It's like a blue debit card and it's wonderful, but you can use it. And Winston and I, we did we has transferred over to Fair Winds. And I remember the night we signed up cuz I was like, "Okay, this is going to be like a but you know, when you switch banks, it's like it's a big deal." But honestly, we went to go sign in and it was like some documentation here, there.

I mean, it took me maybe eight minutes. It was so fast. And then we can connect all of the other accounts we've had to it so you can transfer money so easily. And then I got a customer service call the next day.

And it wasn't just cuz it was us. It was like everybody. Everybody gets a call from their team. So their team, they are they are incredible.

And also do want to thank them. They are our studio sponsor. And by the way, we met so many of you earlier tonight. Come to Nashville. This was such a great experience. They're in Franklin, Tennessee. Fairwinds is our studio sponsor and also huge part of why we can do tonight's show. So we want to thank Fairwinds one more time. Thank them for being such a great partner.

All right, now we're ready to get back to your questions. Come on down. Barb,

there she comes. Give her a big hand.

Yes.

Oh, look at her. She's excited. I like it. >> Hi. >> Hi, Barb. Where are you from?

>> Originally California, but I've been in Arizona for 30 years. >> What's your question? >> So, I'll start with the question and give you some background. Uh, well, maybe the background would help. I'm way beyond baby steps and I am self-made.

>> Way to go, Barb. Yeah, that's amazing.

Great job. >> Thank you. I'm twice widowed. So when you said stand up and are you single?

Yeah, I'm single. Just happened last August for the second one. Don't. No, it's cool. It's cool because out of sadness comes happiness.

>> You have to pick yourself up and get going. And I had to do that. You know, I

was 40 years old when I got my bachelor's degree and I got three masters in my 50s. Completely paid off.

So you can do it.

>> Wow. Ladies and gentlemen, Superwoman,

that's amazing. So everything works because I've been doing it before I even knew about Dave. So

qu So I'm selling a house here. I'm

moving to Florida to be with my daughter and her two sons. Single mom. She's had

it pretty difficult. And um so I'm swapping houses, but I have another house that I'm selling which will go back into that fund. And I do the things with the bank accounts where I want to switch. Boop. Boom. So my question is

Michelle's only got about 120 on her house left. She's a

struggling single mom and when I sell my second house because the first one is for the swap.

I'd like to help her pay that off so she could be debtree and I'll have the profits from my house.

This is in Albuquills if you're familiar with that. >> Yeah, I sunk a lot of money into bringing that up so I could sell it. So, I'm wondering because I heard you say, "Ah, don't do that for your kid." But, you know, she's in her 40s. She's been there for a while. And I would like to

do that for her, but with the caveat that if I pay off her title, >> I get to be put on the title just in

case we're >> Do you want to be on the title >> with her? Because I'm going to give her >> No, don't put your name on the title. That's her house. That would feel like it has strings attached >> because she knows that once I get this house, 20 years, it'll be hers cuz I'm 70. I think it would be amazing for you to pay off your daughter's house. That to me is a very different situation than earlier. I think that's great.

>> What say you? >> Uh I agree wholeheartedly. It's a It's a different situation. >> Yep. >> I agree. I think it's beautiful. It's changing your family tree, right? We talk about that a lot. And what can you do? And you're not enabling her in any way. No, cuz I still give her some money to help with the boys band uniforms and this and that cuz she and she doesn't ask unless she really needs it. She say, "Oh, mom, I'm having trouble with the boys stuff." And I'll go, "Okay, cuz

she'll get it anyway when I'm gone. So, it's either now or then, I guess." >> I think because you have the money to do it, you're doing so well. And I when I think about grandkids, I feel like that's grandparent stuff. Like, you're going to reach in and do things like that.

But that's that would be my reason behind it is you're in the financial position to do it. It doesn't sound like she's been in a situation where you're floating her. >> No, I've never She's done well in her career. We graduated together for one of my masters.

>> That's amazing. >> Very cool. >> It was great. >> So, what what is her income? Do you know? >> I'm sorry. >> What is her income? She's um school counselor in Florida, so she doesn't do

so hot, >> right? >> I don't know the exact number, but teachers, counselors in here. >> Well, the point is she's she's self- sustaining. She's a mama bear taking care of the kiddos. I think you're a great mom, and again, we're totally in favor of it. Don't put your name on the title. You don't want it to ever feel like strings are attached. Just I want to do this for you, baby girl, and do it. >> Yeah. Make sure gift tax and everything with floor like Yeah. double check taxes

and all of that because there's there is a gift tax. I'm trying to think if it gets put on real estate. Um but just double check. >> That's what I was kind of wondering if I >> make sure. Yep. And yeah, because it changes every year, too. Um so depending on when you sell your home and all of that, but it could be. Yeah. Talk I would talk to your to a CPA just to double check that you're in the clear.

Thank you. You're mom. You're a good mom. >> Everybody give Barb some love. That was fantastic. Thank you, Barb.

>> Great job. >> Appreciate that. All right. Up next, please welcome to the mic, Phil. Phil,

come on down.

All right, Phil, get close to the mic.

Tell us where you're from. >> From East Tennessee.

>> Wow. >> East Tennessee. >> Athens. Oh, by Athens.

>> Oh my gosh. My mom grew up in Madisonville. >> That's where I actually live right now. But >> shut the front door. Are you serious?

>> Yep. >> You don't meet many people from Madisonville. >> I plan to relocate to Arizona.

>> Okay. We like Arizona. It's the >> Are you out? That's why you're out here. You're kicking the tires. >> Visiting grandma. >> Oh, it's very nice. Everybody on the count of three. One, two, three.

>> Phil, you're amazing. What's your question? >> So, the question is, I'm about two weeks

away from being debtree for the second time. I don't want to make the same mistakes. I invest in real estate, flip houses, and I got overleveraged. So, I'm almost out again, and I should have some money left over. The market where I live came down about 20%. So it's a lot less than I expected. The question is if it were

if you were in my circumstance,

would you buy a house here in Arizona, maybe cash if it the numbers work out with the sale of this house, or would

you rent for a while and keep the money

to continue to flip houses since that's where I've been making my income? I would focus on your permanent residence first before the flips. So either that

is you go rent for a year in Arizona just to kind of see where you want to be, which I don't think is a bad idea.

Um, but you have that money earmarked for buying your personal residence and

then anything above that is what I would put to the flips. But yeah, I would I would prioritize my personal residence before the flips.

>> Okay. um caveat with the money if it's

if I wait a year I know you're a five-year rule which I've heard money market account if you're not going to do anything if I also have been investing my money in the stock market and make doing pretty well would I would you invest or just hold off >> not for one year I wouldn't cuz Trump's going to burp next week and it's going to like tank again and then like it's going to do this and it's back up y'all know it's back up when it all went down when Iran happened like it's It's crazy.

So, no, I would not. No. Too volatile right now. >> If you're in it, stay in it. We're going to ride it out together. Woohoo. It's a

fun ride. >> Y'all give him some love. That's That's a good question.

All right, we got time for one more question, then we got a really fun way to end our night. Please welcome to the mic, Aaron. There she is.

Hi, Aaron. >> Hi. >> What's your question? >> I'm I'm a little nervous, but I'm doing great. I'm super excited to be here. Um I'm a huge fan. Um again, I mentioned I was from Canada, so I came here all by myself um just to see you guys.

>> So, >> Canadian

>> and my two boys um are at home, but they're huge fans, too. And they're only nine and 12, but you're you're changing their life. Well, what are their names?

>> Dylan and Riley. >> Can we say hi to Dylan and Riley? You got an awesome mom.

>> YEAH.

>> OKAY. SO, here's my question. Um, so I came here alone, like I mentioned, all the way from Canada to be around like like-minded people. I listen to the show every day, uh, literally. And my biggest

struggle, um, is feeling sort of alone at the top. Um, I'm almost finished baby

baby step six, which will be January 9th of 2029, but it feels kind of isolating and lonely. Um, how do I better handle mentally being the different one in friend and family's group groups?

>> Could you tell us a little bit more about what you're experiencing?

Not just maybe thinking that they're saying, is there anything you're experiencing with that group of people?

Yeah, something definitely comes to mind that happened recently. Uh before I came, I was telling my mom, you know, I didn't tell a whole lot of people I was coming here even, but um you know, I was

trying to talk to her about her um future and and retirement. She's already retired, but uh I was trying to teach her almost some of the things that I've learned. And and it's an odd dynamic when it's the daughter, you know, trying to teach the mom. So, you know, I can teach my sons and tell them everything and we listen to it all the time. But yeah, it's just like she she doesn't want to hear it from maybe a child. So,

I'm definitely hearing some push back from her of like, okay, sounds good.

But, you know, and I do genuinely want to help her. And, you know, she jokes about like just, oh, live in your basement. And I'm like,

I love her to death. But, >> does she ask for the help? Like does she ask for you to >> Never, not once. But I see what could be

coming perhaps down the road.

>> Yeah, it's tough because to your point, you're the daughter and she hasn't asked. And so in those points, I do think it's the best way to approach that is it's really cool to talk about the

you, right, and say the things that you've done or the things that you've learned. Um, and it feels a little less judgmental. And I I have a feeling you're already doing that in the right ways, though, because I can just tell by the way you're talking, it doesn't sound like you're walking in there saying, "Mom, you need to do this and you need to get your budget and you need Right." Um, and and then after you've said all you can say, you just kind of move on.

And most people, they see us leading by

example. Like they see your life, they see what's going on. And at some point, if she gets to that point, she'll ask

and she'll say, "Well, what did you do? How did you do it?" And you have to be cool with if she never asks.

>> Yeah, that's fine.

>> Yeah. Thank you. That's great.

>> Yeah. And I think it's hard to what you said is so true when you start to move

past your parents from a financial sense. Some people feel that spiritually, some people feel that emotionally. You know, like there's it's weird when you if you pass your parents in any any part of life. That's an odd

thing as an adult child to be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm doing better than my mom in

this situation." And your heart in it is so good that you want her to have control and freedom and set her life up well. Um, but you cannot put a lot of energy even if even though it's your parent, you know, your mom or your friends or whoever. You cannot put energy into people that don't want to change on that subject. So, you do kind of have to surrender and just be like, "This is what I've chosen to do with my life." They may choose to do it, they may not.

And that's that's up to them. That is not my thing to carry. That's not my burden to carry. Um, but I can see the isolation part of having some fun wins financially maybe for you or hitting milestones. You're like, man, I wish I had people to celebrate this with. So, >> yeah, that's I think that loneliness is

is very real and honest. Um, but also I

don't think that that all has to be your identity either. We pair so much of our

um success or lack of success financially with who we are. Um even though it's a big part of our story and it's wonderful and it's great, but it's not you. That's not that doesn't you know your money, your baby steps, they don't define who you are.

>> Um and so I think concentrating on that end um and connecting with people on things that aren't just money, you know what I mean? Is is great, too. But that that lonely part is real. And I think you just have to to own that until you unless you find someone in that.

>> I got an idea. Okay, >> Erin, you hang out there for a second. Okay. >> Okay.

>> So, one of the unbelievable magical

things that Dave discovered years ago, decades ago, was the power of community.

And we saw it come alive in Financial Peace University. My wife and I, many, many years ago, now over 20 years ago,

led our first class in Atlanta, Georgia, as we were making progress. And uh the

community that we experienced was like many of you. It was lifegiving to be in

the room with other people that were feeling the things you were feeling, that were thinking the things that you were thinking, that were in almost identical scenarios.

And that's what made Financial Peace University special. And uh it's the community. And I'm sitting here listening to Aaron and I'm like, Aaron came down from Alberta, Canada, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, just to be in the room. She's on baby step six. Is that right? And she

used the word isolation and loneliness.

And you all know how hard it is to be lonely or isolated in any season of life, but certainly on something that is so core to your convictions.

So, I'm I'm going to do something. Okay.

I want to know if and and I'm starting here. I wonder if there's any sing Well, let me ask you this. I'm making this up as I go. >> Love it. >> When do you return? When do you go back home? >> Uh I get home like early Thursday morning. >> So, what time do you fly out? That's what I'm saying. When? >> Tomorrow night at 8:00.

>> Perfect. That's what I was hoping you were going to say.

Are there any single women in this room tonight >> or men?

I wasn't going to go there, but I I'm serious. Are there any single women in this room right now that are willing to hang out with Aaron tonight or maybe go to Stand up. Stand up. Single ladies, I want her to feel safe.

This is not a dating thing. Okay. So, here here's what I want. I want you ladies, Aaron, you look at these ladies.

Stand up, ladies. Look at her. After the show tonight, I want you to connect in that in that corner of the room back there with Katie. Okay?

And and these are your new friends. What's your name? >> Martina. >> Martina.

And what's your name? >> Mariam. >> Mariam.

>> That's Aaron.

>> And Aaron's your new friend.

>> And so you all are going to either go out tonight after the show or you're going to do breakfast tomorrow. Okay?

>> And you're going to have three new friends.

>> Three new friends who who feel you and

know you and care about you. and they're going to walk with you even if it's long distance, FaceTime and text. Will you agree to do that? Say yes if you do. No pressure if you don't want to. >> I have international. >> You have an international plan on your phone. It's very exciting.

Are you willing to stay in touch with her? >> Yes. >> Are you willing to stay in touch with her? Because this is what life is about.

You need community.

>> And so, thank you ladies. You're amazing. And so what I'm going to do to get it started is we got a little uh little bottle of procco to get the party started. So I'm going to give that to you, Aaron. And ladies, thank you all.

Would you all give these ladies some awesome love? Can I hug you? You're so awesome. Ladies, thank you. That's really cool. I know I put you on the spot, but Rachel Jade, I tell you something. It's not right for her to go back to Edmonton, Alberta, feeling like she's isolated. >> No, she's got three new friends now.

Community. Yes. Being with people, it's a big deal. So important. So important.

Don't try to run this race alone. It's so stinking hard. >> Any part of life, marriage, parenting, anything. Yeah, >> those really special ladies. Thank you for that. And I appreciate you all doing that. Okay, speaking of community, so we've been doing this on tour. We do a group debtree scream. And so Jade is going to be my assistant here. So here's what we're going to do. Okay, here's what I want. I want if you have paid, if you've become debtree, okay, in the last

12 months, would you stand up? all throughout the room. Stand up. Stay standing.

>> Stay standing. In the last 12 months.

Yeah. You can platform. That's cool.

Okay.

All right. Here's what we're going to do. So, Jade's got her calculator out.

I'm going to go around the room. James is also keeping a tally and we're going to find out how much money you spent. So, I'm going to point at you. You give me the number and we're going to add it up to see how much this room has paid off in the last 12 months. And then we're going to do a group debtree scream. How does that sound? Pretty fun.

>> That was kind of weak.

>> So, do we have anybody up in the upper deck? >> We do not. Okay. So, I'm going to start over here and uh we'll start right here in this row. The green blue shirt right here. How much? Give me a number.

>> About 40,000. >> 40,000. >> Okay. Sit down once I I get your number.

So, sit down for just a second so I can keep track. Uh right next to them in the dark shirt. >> 80,000. >> 80,000. Next. >> 80,000. >> 80,000. Okay. right here.

>> $61,000.

>> Mortgage. >> And your mortgage, of course. Yeah, I thought so. You guys can be seated for just a second. Okay, let's go right back there behind them.

>> 60,000. >> 60,000. Okay, next to them.

>> 400. >> 400,000. Okay.

>> 20,000. >> 20,000. Am I going too fast? Are we good? Okay. >> 60,000. >> 60,000. Hold the applause. We're going to do a real big thing. Okay. Right here, sir. >> 42 >> 42,000. All right. This couple >> 60 >> 60,000 directly behind them.

>> 12,000. >> 12,000. Directly behind her.

>> 65,000. >> 65,000. Right behind him?

>> 130 >> 130,000. Ma'am, right here, >> how much? >> 50. >> 50,000. Okay. Uh, right here.

>> I paid off my third house 12,000.

>> 12,000. Way to go.

>> Right here. >> 75,000. >> 75,000. >> 5,000. >> 5,000. Right back here. I'm so sorry. In the middle. >> 27,000. >> 27,000.

Who? I'm I'm getting there. Who did I miss? Right here. >> 40,000. And the last 500 WAS JUST TODAY.

>> OH, THAT'S FUN. 40,000 there. Okay. Is

that everybody in the last 12 months?

Right here. >> 122,000. >> 122,000. We added it. That was a nice number. Okay. If you just gave me a number, stand up. If you just gave me your number, stand back up. All right, this is very exciting. And uh what's our

number?

>> Drum roll, everybody. Drum roll.

>> 1,981,000.

>> Wow. >> 2 million. >> 1.9 million. Almost 2 million.

>> Almost $2 million. >> That's wild. >> That's crazy. Okay, can we do Can I Can we add in more people? Okay, if you're just debtree in the room, stand up. If you are debtree, don't have to be this past year. just in general everybody >> if you've paid it off.

>> Fantastic. Okay, you guys know what to do. Do you want to count? I feel like you should count it down. >> No, I think we all count it down. >> We all count >> as an audience, right? >> All right, here we go. What's our number? Just >> 1,985,000 >> plus a whole bunch more from a whole bunch more of debt-free people. We're going to do it together. You guys know how to do it. 3 2 1

That is so great. You can be seated. All right. Before we let you go tonight, um we've done this in every city and and I want to start with Jade and and uh I

just want you from your heart to share a word of encouragement. What's on your heart and mind for these fine folks tonight? I'll just tell you guys my life

verse. Galatians 6:9. Don't grow weary in doing what is right or don't grow weary in welloingo cuz at the right time you'll reap a harvest of blessing if you don't faint, if you don't give up. And I

know there's a lot of people in here scrapping and and and just grinding right now and and it feels thankless and the road feels long and you wonder if you'll make it and you wonder if it'll be worth it on the other side when and if you make it. I'm telling you it's worth it. I'm telling you, you will make it to the finish line. I'm telling you to hold on.

I'm ke telling you to just keep doing your best. Keep grinding it out. There will come a time where you cross the finish line. And there will come a time and I want you to imagine it tonight.

I want you to take the time to just lay in your bed and go think about what it's going to feel like when the debt is gone, when the money is saved, when the mortgage is paid. and just let yourself sit in that for a while because the time will come and when the debt is gone, it's gone. You never think of it again. It's just poof.

feeling and I promise you, you will get there. I'm proud of you guys.

You know, I think of the most impactful words I've ever heard Dave say. I mean, I just think it had to be anointed when he first came up with the idea. And I I've never asked him. I think I need to ask him if he thought about it ahead of time or it just came out one day on the air. I actually don't know. But it's this iconic phrase, if

you live like no one else, later you can

live and give like no one else.

Unbelievably profound because of the

sheer focus that I think it gives people. And so I'm just going to follow along with Jade here and say that I think those words that you've heard Dave say over and over and over and they're burned into your conscience. Don't let them become ritual. I think it really is

the key because what Dave figured out is

on the other side of the baby steps and all of the tremendous work and the shortcomings and the stalls and the restarts and all the things. He realized that the power of that phrase was the live like no one else at the end of it and the give because

there just something about the human spirit. We long to give to each other.

We long to make our mark in this world.

Nobody has to teach us that. It's hardwired into our soul by our creator because he gave. And um so I would just

encourage you to take those iconic words

and let them be an anthem no matter where you are to say on the end of this deal I am going to be able to live like

no one else. And Rachel said it beautifully tonight in the advice to her 23-year-old self. I'm looking at some beautiful people here and all of you have a different version of what live like no one else looks like on the back end of that. And I would hold on to that dearly. That's your why and it is powerful. It will pull you through all the stuff you're going through. For those of you that have made it, spread the word. Spread the good news of what

it's like to live and give like no one

else.

Yeah, money is such a it's such a fascinating topic because I feel like it's one of the topics in life that can bring so much guilt and so much shame on

one end of the spectrum and then yet on

the way other end of the spectrum, it when it's seen in a healthy way and it's not an idol. It's not the thing that's the end- all beall, but it's a tool in our lives to change our family trees to

bless the people around us and do what we have to do. Right? Money is powerful and it's only really powerful and used for good when it's put in the hands of people who choose to use it well and to

be in a room honestly and we feel this all over like when we go to all these different states and all these different cities. Like it really is incredible you guys. You know, you can watch the news and hear all the jabber about what's going on, but like y'all are it. Like, we're it, right? I mean, there's people like you everywhere who want to create

solutions for their lives in a subject that's really hard. And you know the secret that it's you that's going to do it. No one's coming to save you. You've chosen to do something well with your life that's well beyond money. It's a legacy. A legacy play. It really is for

your own family, for the people around you. And so we are just encouraged by you. The hope that we see in rooms like this all over is just it's just amazing.

It really is. And so we are your cheerleaders. We are yes on this

specific stage in these lights, but you all and the lights out there like you're the heroes. You're doing it. And that we the fact that we get to walk beside you in your journey and hopefully cheer you on is a pleasure. and we love what we

do. We love you all and keep up the hard work. >> Arizona, you've been so great. On behalf of Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Jay Warshaw, and our entire crew that is here tonight, thank you all for being here. Have a wonderful evening.

>> Thank you guys. Thank you.

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## 104. Lose the Ego, Win With Money | August 7, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:16 |

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. My co-host today is Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the uh Smart Money Happy Hour hit on Ramsey Networks and my daughter. We're going to be here and tell you the truth all day.

We're going to talk about you, baby, right in front of you. The phone number is 888255225.

You jump in and we're here to help.

Herman is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Herman. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hi, so my call is quick and simple hopefully. I am a married man and I have

a wife that is a spender and um I just

want to know what can I do to get her

more on board with the Dave Ramsey plan.

Um we went to FPU.

I watch her show pretty much every single day and I I try to tell her things. in her YouTube shorts. And I just feel like there's nothing I can say or do that makes her change her ways.

And I just I don't know what to do anymore. >> I think we're going to phone a friend. We're going to call Winston, Rachel's husband, and ask him how he dealt with Rachel being a spender.

>> Perfect combo show.

>> If we can do that, I'm cool with that.

>> Okay. Well, my question is to you, how are you approaching it? Like, have you guys sat down and had actual real

conversations or has it been not that it's passive aggressive to send >> throwing are you throwing Ramsay YouTube grenades? Is that all you're doing?

>> No, no, no, no. So, we have had heartto-hearts. Okay. >> Uh, and what's her rebuttal?

>> Conversations.

>> Uh, there is no rebuttal. That's the thing. The thing is just when the example is we we my my brother's about to have a baby and she decided to throw a baby shower and we spent about 700 on

that and we're in baby step where because of that we're back in baby step one and that's the kind where I'm like I you know >> I and she's super nice she's a great person super giving a little too giving sometimes when we need to take care of our stuff you know >> so I I don't know how or what to say to

get her to do this Dave Ramsey plan.

>> Well, quit saying Dave Ramsey for one thing. >> Okay. >> You're gonna turn me into a dadgum cuss word in your house, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You kind of are already.

>> Uh yeah, too late. Yeah. You Okay, so number one, I'll let Rachel chime in, too. But most guys make this more than

gals make this mistake.

>> You talk about what to do rather than why to do it.

So, you need to p you need to pan back and dream together about what life would be like if we had built some wealth

>> and and didn't have the stress of money.

>> And you've got to get some buy in in this highdefinition dream >> and then only then are people willing to

do the hard stuff to get to the dream.

>> Right.

>> Yeah. And I would say >> I feel like I've done that.

>> Yeah. Well, what I'm wondering though again is too for spouses especially with

money because it's such a hot it's such a hot button because it does it causes so much stress and conflict. And so for

you, Herman, I want I would want the conversations more so to go not pointing at her and saying, "You did this, you did this, you're doing this, you're a spender, you're out of control, you spend $800, you you what's going on with you, Herman, right?" And coming to her in a sense to say, "Hey, as your husband, I have some fear around this.

This makes me um when I when I look at the pattern, what I'm what I'm scared about is that we we're not going to have financial security. we have a lot of debt if something happens like like what is going on within you because it can easily become you don't mean it to be but it can become the blame game of she's the problem and you're the savior in the situation right and so for her to understand where you're going from what you were just saying it's not the what we got to get on a budget you have to stop spending but it's why what is going on with you and then at that point Herman you know if you guys talk through and it's not that she can never spend money because that's another thing some people not that you are this but some people right they was so extreme where the spouse is like, "This is the most miserable life because you're giving me $150.

We don't have $1,000 to our name and you spend $700 on a baby shower and I'm throwing a flag." Okay. >> Right. >> She's out of bounds. Okay.

Completely out of bounds. Like that's like sixth grade math violation right there.

You just don't do that. A an adult an adult knows that boundary. Okay.

>> Yes. I I hear you. But also, I do want to make sure he's giving her the runway to really understand the reality cuz sometimes people in his situation, they're they're running and doing all the logistics of it. >> Yeah. I'm just saying if we sit down and we say this is how much money we have and then you go do that, that's a problem. >> Yeah. 100%. No, I agree with that.

>> Yeah. So, anyway, I Yeah, I'm going to pan back and I'm going to make this a conversation. So, here's the thing. Maybe we can go this far.

>> Hey, I'm I'm worried about this stuff.

This is bothering me. I'm terrified. Our

current process is not working. It's it's hurting our relationship and it's and I cannot see a prosperous future with the way we're doing this. So, something's got to change.

>> Now, sit down here with me and let's talk about what we want our future life

to look like. What my friend Henry Cloud calls our desired future. And then you have to ask yourself, what must be true to get to that desired future? And if if

she's like, "Nah, I'm going to do whatever I want." Well, you now have a wife problem. You don't have a money problem. Now you have a marriage issue. You need to go to a marriage counselor.

But most of the time, you're going to get buy in when you ask questions and pull rather than push. And when you talk

about where we're going rather than how we're going to get there. >> Yeah. And and >> what Simon Sennet calls the why.

>> Yeah. And she, to your point, has to live in the reality of the numbers. You can't live beyond that. And when she starts to live beyond that, that shows a level of immaturity honestly on her end that she can't be an adult and do, you know, fourth grade math of like, okay, we have this, >> we can't overspend here.

Like, right, like there is a point of that. So, I would want to know from her what is causing this. >> Yeah.

>> That's right. >> The second adult in the equation.

>> You're not a caretaker. You She's not You're not her daddy. >> Yes. >> You're her husband. >> I am not. I am a partner. And that's what I want. I want >> Exactly. Amen. And that's the way she's got to view it, which means she steps up, puts her shoulder in the harness with you, and together we pull this.

This is two grown-ups. >> Yeah. And I And my my hunch is >> And then you can argue about what we spend on the shower. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But my my hunch is from what he's saying and from what

we experience a lot on the show with callers when it comes to when it comes to money and marriage issues, 80% of it's usually a marriage issue or an individual issue. It's not just the math. >> Yeah. It's a communication thing. >> Yeah. So, you're probably going to start to if you keep digging in and you guys

keep getting to that level of conversation, it's going to start to reveal other things within the marriage and the relationship, which is great because this is the point of where a lot of couples separate everything and like this is just too hard. We're going to just do our own individual thing >> and that's where the disaster >> and that's a disaster, right? So even when it gets hard, continue to push in because those places of struggle and conflict, that's where intimacy is built and that's where you build a strong foundation of a great marriage is when you get through those conflicts.

So see it as a as a relationship building opportunity moment, Herman.

>> That was so sweet. >> Yes. Mhm. >> It's an opportunity to grow.

>> It is to deepen the relationship.

>> So we don't >> But I know you're annoyed. >> So we don't kill each other. >> I hear that.

[Music]

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[Music]

Sarah is in Georgia. Hi Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Good afternoon. I'm a landlord and I have a and I've had a tenant for a couple of years with no real issues until now. According to the lease, she's supposed to report any maintenance problems to me so I can take care of them. But today, out of the blue, I got a call at work from a plumbing company saying they fixed a water issue at the rental back in January and that the $650

bill had never been paid. This was the first I had even heard there was a problem.

So I'm >> So they your tenant authorized a bill for you to pay without you agreeing to it. >> Yes. And it was a actually a pretty simple fix that my husband could have taken care of and not costed either of us much money. >> Have you called the tenant?

>> I have reached out to the tenant and her response was she just didn't want to bother me and she just hadn't had the money to pay the bill yet. But it's was in January.

>> And is the bill the work under her name?

No, >> it is. It is. >> Oh, it's under her name, but it's on her house. It's on Sarah's house.

>> Yeah. Plumber's not going to lean the tenant. The plumber's going to put a lean on Sarah's house, >> and it's January, 6 months overdue.

Um, so this is a sweet person who's not very smart.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> How long has you been your tenant?

>> Um, a little over two years.

>> Okay. >> And I mean, I've never had any issues with her. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How much is the rent?

Um it's uh $1250 a month.

>> And how much do you have in deposit?

>> Um one month's rent.

>> Okay. >> And how much is the bill? >> 650. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm going to pay it because you're going to have a problem if you don't. Um but I'm also going to have a um a sit

down with the tenant probably in person

and and really clearly explain cuz this lady's not bright. And you're going to have to be real clear. You don't have to be mean, but you need to be blunt.

>> Okay? Like, this is $650 that I would

not have had to pay if you had picked up the phone and called me. Don't you ever do this again. If you do, you won't be

living here. That kind of clear. Oh,

that's exactly how your husband would handle it because that's how I trained him right there. >> Well, I know. Let me >> So, if I mean, he's handling my rental property right now. So if there somebody does something because you need to be clear because this is a dumb butt thing who does this.

>> She may not know. >> I know she's not bright. So you're going to have to tell her real clear because she's not going to get it otherwise. And you know Sarah, you're not going you're probably not going to be as as nasty as I am.

I'm not trying to be mean as kind, right? >> I'm not trying to be mean, but I do want this to I want it to activate a little bit of emotion in the tenants so that they don't do it again. >> Yes. And then you need to pay the bill

to me because I'm going to go ahead and pay it. And if you don't, it's I'm

considering an additional rent. And if you don't, we're going to have another problem. So, you need to get me paid.

Now, how can you get me paid back? You want to pay half of it a month until for the next two months on top of your rent?

I'll work with you on that. I'll try to help you. But, but listen, my husband usually does these repairs and it wouldn't have cost us $650. would cost me $14 in parts from Home Depot and my husband's sweat.

And that's what that's the way we do it, darling. And so next time you have a problem, you do you're not bothering me.

This bothers me. That won't bother me.

So, you know, and just you can be go and I know you meant well. That's fine.

That's all good. But we need to draw a line and go, this doesn't happen again cuz I'm not worried about this bill cuz worst case she never pays it, you take it out of her deposit when she leaves. Right. >> Right. You're not going you're not going to be out of pocket. But um but I I'm

trying to keep it from happening again cuz what's the next one? She has a septic tank replaced at $6,000. I mean my god, what is it? Where's this woman?

This is like you know that people do stuff. I'm So yeah, this is welcome to landlording. Yeah, I would. But you want to be very very clear. You're in Georgia. I'm in Tennessee. I learned

with team members many years ago that I was trying to be nice, southern passive aggressive sweet tea.

And in the name of all of that, I wasn't being clear and um I was getting

frustrated and they didn't know because I was being so indirect and working

around the edges. And now we have a saying around Ramsey when it comes to communicating internally. To be unclear is to be unkind.

So, you want to be kind to her by being very clear with her because if this comes up again, it's going to be a real problem, isn't it, Sarah?

>> Absolutely. I mean, I'm very I mean, it's very aggravating to get Sarah's piss. >> She'll have some piss and vinegar in it. I think I can hear it from you, Sarah.

>> Okay. I'm just giving you permission as a as a fellow landlord to be very clear.

You don't have to be mean. That's not what I'm saying. But that that's not what we're saying. But we are saying I it's more mean for this lady to not get the message. She needs to get the mail.

She needs to open the email, read it.

It's only it's not an email. It's in person. And then I would follow it up with an email or a letter that said, you know, this has happened and we understand this time, but this is not to happen again. All future repairs need to be cleared with us before they are done.

>> Yeah. And then if you wrote the email, the next paragraph be like, or I'm kicking you out. I'm evicting you. This

is what you said your first response was like >> I'm so man I got just this is >> I know you don't have a lot of patience.

>> Um >> no it just it >> I hear you though. I hear you. >> Yeah. You need to understand there's consequences. This is not how we're going to do this deal. >> Y >> and we're not going to operate this way.

>> Rochester, New York. Jeff's on the phone. Hey Jeff, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. Uh thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can I help? Uh, so I recently

stumbled across your show. I've watched your Baby Steps Explained a couple of times and uh it's got me on fire to really nail down my finances. So, I'm on Baby Step Two. Uh, I've got a few uh I've got a few loans to pay off >> and I've got some savings. Uh, I'm thinking of taking those savings and wiping out those debts, moving on to baby step three. >> Awesome. Uh but my dad and my

mother-in-law both independently uh

suggested that I put the money towards my mortgage instead. And I take anything

you're married. >> Do do they do you work for them?

>> No, I I went to them for counsel. I just wanted to get their advice. >> Oh, okay. So, you ask them to to vote on

this. Okay.

>> Yes. Well, I mean, you've got to decide what you think is wise, what they said or what we say.

>> Okay. >> I think their advice is stupid.

>> I think they mean well. >> Yeah. >> But it's dumb. Okay. We have led more

people out of debt into millionaire net worth than any other organization operating in America today. And neither one of them work for me.

>> All right. So, I mean, it's this process works. In other words, it's a proven process. If you follow it all

the way through now, >> and you follow it in order, too. That's another thing is some people go out of order and all of it, and you're not going to see the progress as quickly.

>> Yeah. >> Jeeoff, if you paid off all of your debt today, how much of your income would you save per month that would not be going out in payments?

>> About $500 a month.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And how much is your debt total, Hunt?

uh 12 a.5,000.

>> Okay. All right. And so if you if you put um $1,000 away, you're going to put

12,000 back in one year. Agreed.

How much can you do how much can you put on your baby step three if you don't have any debt to build your emergency fund back up because you're using your savings to clear your debt?

>> How much how much a month can you put back into savings with no debt payments?

I'm thinking right around $1,000 a month. >> Okay. Yeah. I want you to crank that up to about 1,500 and um you know, get on beans and rice.

Rice and beans and let's get that emergency fund rebuilt. I need that for your sake. I want you to have What's your household income?

>> Uh about 75K.

>> Okay, cool. Yeah. How much you have? 20 grand set aside for emergencies.

Grandma's rainy day fund. And how much have you got in there today in savings?

Uh, right now I've got about 22 and a2.

>> Perfect. Okay. So, you're going to take it down to 10 >> by writing a check for 12 and a half.

Correct.

>> That's right. Yep. >> And then you got to raise it back up to 20. And if you do that at 1,500 a month, you're done in like 7 months. And that that would be my plan if I'm you.

>> Amen. >> And then get on through and let's get the investing going and start paying off the house and babys four, five, and six.

But um >> get that consumer debt cleared out, Jeeoff, from a mathematical and an emotional standpoint. When you have no payments, it frees you up.

>> Yeah. Now, the one vote that does count is your wife's. And so the two of you need to be in agreement on that before you move forward. But that's what we would tell both of you to do. So, and

again, your parents mean well, but their plan's dumb.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Harrison is in Atlanta. Hey Harrison, what's up?

>> Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve, man. How can I help? >> Amazing. So Dave, I'm trying to figure out my next move. Uh I have $34,000 in

student loans uh on one loan, another $12,000 on another student loan, and then a 17,000 car loan. Um and I'm, you

know, getting help. I'm also at the same time getting help with a down payment, and I was just hope and I'm hoping to buy a house soon. Um, so but the thing is I'm worried about, you know, all the costs that come with home ownership, you know, and with my debt. Um, and so I just want to ask, you know, should I hit pause on buying and focus on paying off this debt first? Um, and keep renting with my high rent rental um, in Atlanta.

Um, and if so, you know, how should I attack this debt? And, you know, what, you know, should be my force towards that? >> So, you're single.

>> Yes, sir. >> You're 24.

>> Uh, I'm 26. Pretty close. Okay, good guess. All right. Um, what do you make?

>> Uh, I make 130,000 a year.

>> Cool. What do you do?

>> Uh, medical device sales. >> Good for you. Good career. Nice. Well done. >> All right.

Um, cool. So, so you don't have to talk anybody into this but you.

>> Okay. And uh and and I think you already kind of you've got let me what I let me tell you what I think I heard coming out of your mouth and you tell me if I was right. Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I may be wrong. Okay, because I may have missed it, but I think I heard a lot of people in your life going buy house, buy house, buy house, buy house. Everybody's got to buy house. Buy house. Buy house. Crap, man. You make 130,000.

Buy house. Buy house. Buy house. >> You're wasting money on rents. >> You're throwing that money down a rat hole. Buy house. Buy house. And then I think you're fairly analytical dude and

you're a very detailed person and you started going, "Yeah, but if I take on

all those expenses and I've got all this this that doesn't feel right to you."

>> Correct. >> Did I read your mail or not?

>> No, I think that's 100% right. You know, I've just heard about, you know, horror stories of someone buying a house, you know, at this age and, you know, you have to replace a roof, water heater, you know, whatever it might be. And that kind of worries me with the debt that I'm currently in. >> Yeah, we have found that home ownership is a key to building wealth. It's one of

the two things that causes people to get their first $1 to5 million of net worth.

So, it's very important. So, we're big on you getting a house. However, when

you're broke like you are and you buy a house, >> Yes, sir. >> it will make you broker. That's why they call them brokers. And so, um yeah, it's

a mess. And you know, you got to have an

extra bedroom for Sally May.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

>> Yeah. So, if I'm you, I'm cleaning up the debt. >> And you The good news is 63,000, you make 130. If you don't have a life for a year, you could be debtree.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, that's going to be really hard. You're single in Atlanta making bank.

>> But I just put you in jail. Okay. I put you in the apartment jail. You can't do nothing. And you're not allowed to go out to eat. All you do is work and pay debt. >> You know what would make you sick, Harrison? Considering how analytical you are, if you go to ramiesolutions.com and pull up our investment calculator and just put in the amount of money you're paying towards your student loans and your car loan every month and instead if you had invested that at 26 to 65,

>> it will be I bet it'll be over $3 million >> five >> if you are paying yourself versus paying someone else. So that's the mindset you have to have that you're you're paying other people your income where you could be paying yourself that income for a down payment and or even investing long term. So >> have your income work for you not other people.

because there's no margin. And so paying off the consumer debt first and foremost, getting some money saved in an emergency fund, and then saving for that down payment, >> then the house is a blessing rather than a curse. When you move in broke, the house can be a curse.

>> That that makes total sense. And I guess my followup question to that is I do have a pretty solid like I mean for my age, a solid little fund going on at my

fund going on. >> So I have around $35,000.

>> Awesome. And and so my problem with it

is I don't know which to pay off first.

>> I'd pay off the $12,000 student loan, the $17,000 car.

>> Okay. >> Your two smallest debts and then then you're going to attack that other debt with a vengeance. Oh crap. Now you're out of debt in like four months, man.

>> Okay. >> You're going to be out of debt in no time. >> I should just You think I should just use the full emergency fund >> down to $1,000? I'm gonna send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover.

It's going to teach you the baby steps on steroids. Okay. And the baby steps are $1,000 saved as baby step one. Two is pay off all your debts except your home, smallest to largest in that order, only keeping $1,000 of nonretirement income.

We don't cash out retirement, but everything else goes on the debt. We clear the debt because, as Rachel said, your most powerful wealth buildinging tool is your income. And that investment calculator will make you puke if you don't do this. And so, go do it.

And so, knock this stuff out like your hair was on fire.

family and friends to think you've lost your mind.

>> Okay. >> Broke people will make fun of your wealth building plan.

>> Okay. Count on count on it. Because an

interesting thing, one of the things we studied when we studied 10,000 millionaires, one of the things they attribute to becoming a millionaire is they quit caring what other people thought.

>> That makes sense. Not that's definitely a problem of mine right now. It's a problem. It's a problem with me. It's a problem with every human that breathes. We all want affirmation. We all want to be liked. We all want people to think we're brilliant. But when broke people are making fun of your financial plan, it's like fat people making fun of your diet. Okay? I mean, come on.

>> So, you just got you got to think about it. That that's how we get at it. So, Rachel's exactly right. You get that debt paid off, build up that emergency fund, then save up a down payment. Dude, you're going to be there in two years.

>> It's going to be quick. You're going to be sitting in a nice home in two years making by then 160 cuz you're you're you're on an arc with this career of yours is not it's not going to get inflation raises. You're going to you're going to see 10 20 30% hits on this thing. So you're going to do great, man. >> But I like how self-aware you are, Harrison, because he said

I do care. But he says I I care about what people think. So it's a good notion to remember the ego hates this plan. The

ego wants to say, "I'm making $130,000 a

year and I'm 26 years old. Look at the restaurants I can go to, go out with my friends, the car I drive, where I live." Because he even mentioned it's an expensive rent where he is in Atlanta. Like, right? Like, every part of your lifestyle gets shut down. And so much of what we equate our success and who we are and what makes us feel good and inflates that ego in us is this. And so,

that's a good line. >> When you stop that, thank you. What' you say? Say >> I said that's a good line. >> Yeah, thank I'll take that compliment. Thanks, Dave. Uh, >> ego hates this plan. It does.

>> It does. >> So, Harrison is Yeah. So, be on guard of

that where your emotions are going to kind of spike in that that you're not going to want this. >> But I'm telling you, it is going to be it's going to release you from a lot because like you said though, >> when you don't care what people think >> when you're when you're doing busting through change, change is frustrating.

Yes. >> Learning by its nature is frustrating because you're doing and taking in things you didn't know before. And there's a a level of angst that goes with that. And it's real easy to get an

entitlement mentality and act like a four-year-old on the serial aisle and have a meltdown because I can't get Froot Loops. >> Yeah. Right. >> It's like, I deserve this.

I work so hard and you know, but you're 56 and you sound like you're four, you know, and it's like, I work so hard. Like we all don't work hard. I mean, give me a break. That's just whining.

Called the Wambulence. But you're you're exactly right. That that's a that's good. That's very good.

You're going to do this. I can tell, man. Hang on.

Make sure you get in gear and you call us back and tell us when you're debtree. You can do your debtree scream right here, man. >> It's awesome, Harrison. Good luck.

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Thanks for joining us, America. Cody's in Wisconsin. Hey, Cody. What's up?

>> How are you? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

So, quick question, make a long story short. Um, about a year ago, my mother

passed away due to cancer. I have two sisters, older sister, and me and my

middle sister, we we knew that the oldest sister was going to be left out of the will. My oldest sister unfortunately kind of stepped away from the family.

And the day of the services, my oldest sister found out from a will that she

had located that uh she would not be receiving any inheritance.

Needless to say, um things have been tight with the or tough with the family.

We haven't spoke for a while. I'm feeling guilt that, you know, maybe some of my inheritance to bring the family back together. I should give that up.

And I'm not talking a significant amount of money. It's probably $50,000 $60,000

worth of liquid funds and maybe $100,000 of investments were my share. You know, very significant. Something that that my family can use and benefit from, but uh I just wanted to kind of get an outside perspective on what your thoughts might be for this situation.

>> Wow, >> that's painful. I'm sorry.

>> Uh well, your mother should have handled this when she was alive.

and I had that conversation and I begged her to please put a letter in writing so that she understands why. But uh things happened faster than we anticipated and that ne was never written.

>> Yeah. But she had not spoken to your your older sister not spoken to your mom in several years apparently.

>> It's it was a while and she was in >> Well, how long was a while? talk.

Um, they small talked, but uh, she would

never help out with any doctor's appointments, medical issues, problems,

and there was certainly some some

problems that they had between the two of them that they never sat down and talked. But it was she would probably been away from the family for maybe 10 years. Cody, what what was your mom's reason to keep her out because there just wasn't a relationship there?

>> Correct. Um there Yeah, there wasn't a

relationship. My father passed away from a stroke. They we kind of got back together. The family was on terms. my sister moved into my mother's house in the winter time as my mother snowbirded into uh down to Texas once my sister

realized that the house wasn't going to be given to her because my mom needed to move somewhere smaller and then we we she wasn't involved again for numerous years until my mom passed.

So, I understand the olive branch you're wanting to extend, but I'm going to be honest that it feels like she's coming back into the family not out of a relational desire. She has to be paid to

get back into the family, right? Like that feels weird to me.

>> And I I agree. That's just something I don't necessarily want to admit to, but that's certainly something on the back of my mind. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because if I'm if I'm hurt and I want a relationship with my siblings, >> then there's not then you call up and have a relationship. to be motivated by anyone who's got any I mean this is a fairly cut and dry deal. You didn't do this. Your mom did this.

>> So if your sister wants to be angry with someone it would be with your mom. And so how can I reconcile someone else's

issues? I can only reconcile my issues.

So if I have offended someone, I can go to them if I want to and reach out an

olive branch, but I can't reach out an olive branch on behalf of someone else.

>> Mhm. Mhm. >> And that's it that doesn't that's not how this that's not how relationships work. And so you can't make her okay.

You can't make your older sister not be mad at your mom, >> right? >> No matter what you do because it's not your place. I mean, you don't have you're not in that position. only your mom could have done that. Only that they're the only ones that could have reconciled while your mom was still here. It's so sad. But >> it is. And I don't think any amount of money too is going to make her happy. I mean, it sounds like it's >> this lady's not Your oldest sister's just not a happy person either.

>> Right. >> Am I right or is that am I overstating that? >> No, I I don't think so.

>> Okay. All right. So I think it's a um

>> so I would I would go to her and say I would love a relationship with you. Like I like you know right if yours is >> I'd be happy to have coffee with her and say I completely understand that you're pissed at mom for cutting you out.

I completely understand that and I'm

sorry that that happened. And it wasn't because of me. I didn't tell her to. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. I told her to write you a letter. I told her to tell you what she was doing and she didn't do it. And because it's hurtful and I'm so sorry for that and I just leave it at that. I mean, you can say the truth. The truth is you, you know, it may it's awkward. It makes you feel bad, but you didn't cause it.

>> So, no, I'm not writing anybody checks in this. >> No, the spirit, you know, emotionally.

>> Yeah. >> You know, even spiritually there you don't think that there's a no a reason or there is a no inheritance is not an entitlement.

You're not entitled to money just because you hit the DNA lottery.

>> And so, you know, any of you have a, you know, if your parents have money, any of you out there, you are not entitled to their money morally, spiritually, ethically, they can do with it what they want to do with it. It's called their money. >> They don't have to leave it to anyone.

The only thing I tell people all the time is if you're going to piss somebody off in the wheel, have the courage to do it while you're alive.

And that way they don't leave people like you in this.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And >> Cody, again, just to reiterate, no amount of money is going to mend a relationship. >> That's not that with your mom. She's in heaven. I mean, >> well, no, but but with the sister, like him wanting to give the sister money to to >> she's not suddenly going to be okay.

>> Yeah. That is not if that's all of it and she's not going to be okay. >> That's not what money's for, right? That it will not do that. It will >> doesn't have that power.

>> Yep. I agree. but an a a gesture of

saying of empathy saying I I get that

you're hurt. I would be hurt too. I

understand that and I'm sorry. I feel badly that you are in this situation. I didn't put you here but I I understand

that your heart is torn by this and I'm so sorry. >> And if you then give me some money. No, that's not that's not what this is about. This is about me telling you I understand that you're hurt. I didn't make these decisions and it it's it is it is somewhat unethical to not abide by someone's will, >> right? >> Because you know it it is my will that

you do so and so. And that's where the name will comes from. It's your it's what your mother wanted. It's what I want. It's my will. And so and so you

you know to not do what she wanted with her money is a bit unethical.

So um and and and >> you're trying to use it to mend a relationship. >> And to Rachel's point, which is really the core of the whole discussion is money won't do that. If the only way

money can build a relationship, I mean there's only one kind of relationship that money does and it's called prostitution. >> Oh my gosh. >> I mean that's it. There's only one thing that you you're buying love.

>> I was saying you know a gold digger you know >> you're buy well I mean similar version.

Yeah. But um but you know you're buying

relationship when and that's all. And what that is is it's not a real >> relationship. It's a counterfeit. >> Mhm. >> Uh because it's not based on reality.

And so >> and I'm going to give you full permission Cody too to have a discernment if you want relationship with her. Right. And if you do, extend that part of you. Um, but also don't

feel like you absolutely have to mend something right now because it does sound like, you know, there's a bit of a mess, too. But if you do feel that in

your own conscious that it would be good for you to have a conversation with her,

um, then do it. Absolutely. I >> I I would just be forewarned that I'm not part of the conversation is I'm not going to be guilt tripped.

I'm not going You're not going to transfer your anger from mom to me.

We're not going to >> I'm not going to be a punching bag for you. >> I'm not going to sit here and do that. I can I can empathize with you, but I don't have to get beat up by you.

>> And so, um I I don't need to do that either. And I don't know this lady's motus operenda. I don't know where she's coming from, but sometimes when you're trying to help men things where things are broken, there's a little transference. And so >> you get mad at the wrong thing.

>> Yeah. >> And um that could happen. And I don't I mean what do I know? But it could happen. So yeah, that's a good question.

Everyone needs a will. If you don't have your will, go to mamaabarillegalformms.com and get it done. 70% of Americans die without a

will. 70% of Americans are broke. I

wonder if there's a correlation. People that take care of money take care of money. People that take care of their family take care of their family.

There's a correlation. Get your stinking will done. All of you.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters. ers of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show

where we help people build wealth, do

work that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour hit on the Ramsey Networks. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8825-5225.

Melissa is in Las Vegas. Hi Melissa, how are you?

I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on the show. >> Sure. How can I help?

>> Um, so my previous marriage was very financially abusive. Um, I've been divorced for four years and was able to build myself back up, but I'm looking to get remarried in the next year or two.

And sharing finances just feels really scary. I know that's what you guys recommend, but uh, the jump back into that and sharing finances and doing all that feels scary. So, I wonder if you guys have any tips for me. Mhm.

>> It It should feel scary. I mean, that would be >> It'd be weird for you if it didn't.

>> You'd be a weirdo. >> I mean, you got you got stung.

>> You got stung. So, hanging out with bees should feel scary. Yeah.

>> I mean, yeah, that makes sense now. And

then I But let's go a step further.

Okay. >> Handling money is not a department

compartment.

It is woven into your spirit, your soul.

Where you spend your money says what you value says what you fear.

>> Yeah. >> How you handle money says what your value system is. And um so you lose the

ability to create an incredible amount of unity with the spouse by not sharing.

And um so what you know I I would go

slow enough that my wounds were healed enough that with evidence of high

communication and cooperation >> I could trust and not superimpose the other jerk onto the new guy. Okay.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm working hard to not do that. >> Yeah. That's a hard that's a hard one. That's a human nature thing and your self-awareness is a big deal on that. So congratulations. I think you're very wise, but I'll just go slow enough to say, in other words, if you can't share

your dreams and your fears through your money, you're not quite ready to do the marriage thing.

>> Yeah. >> Because you're going to share >> everything. >> Everything. You know, if you guys have kids together, I'm like, if I don't trust the spouse that I'm marrying enough with my money, how am I going to trust them to raise human beings with me?

You know what I mean? it's it's an indicator of their character and who they are. >> And if there's a pause on that, >> then then again, I think that that that's a red flag to be like, okay, but but again, your your pause may be coming from your wounds as you're self-aware enough to know. Um, but I think that's the that's the that's the important thing what you just said is >> I would coach him >> and and ask your pre-marriage counselor to do this.

And you got and you could say it out loud to him. Teach him this if you want to. I don't care.

decisions. B, everything is crystal

clear. There is no side deals anywhere.

We are doing everything together and all the cards are face up all the time

because she's got tender places and if you touch one of those areas by forgetting to tell her something,

>> she's going to translate that into you're a jerk and you've got to be super diligent on that. I'll give you an example in our situation that's similar. Okay. Um I

that that was me talking to me a minute ago. Okay? Because when we went broke,

my poor wife went through hell.

>> We had a brand new baby, a toddler, marriage hanging on by a thread. She would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, that's what we were doing, right? It was nasty. Water got cut off, lights got cut off. She lived not she wasn't afraid. She was in terror that we

were going to be homeless.

Okay, that's that's the wound that she has now. That was 35 years ago.

Mhm. >> But we still have an emergency fund for

the emergency fund.

And I don't even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund paperwork is kept. >> Dave still has life insurance on them because mom wants it just in case. Like

if Dave dies, mom is fine. You know, >> she's she's got several hundred million dollars in real estate, but she wants some insurance too, you know. And so it it's it's not even logical. But that is me being hyper vigilant to realize that

she has a the reality of a wound there

that she was that that terror can rise up. It can return even 35 years later.

>> Yeah. >> And that's that's your guy that's your guy's job here cuz he's got to look at Melissa and go, she's worth me being super careful and tender on this

subject. And would that Melissa for you

feel so would you just feel so loved?

Like would you that would just in my head >> that would raise him up even more of like you're an amazing guy. You know what I mean? Like there's a level of trust and care.

>> Um that's really beautiful and I think actually could be very flourishing for you guys in your relationship. That could be really one of the big things that actually unites you versus having to be divided, you know.

>> Yeah, absolutely. But but if you knew

every if you know everything that's going on and I will tell you this obviously >> with 35 years of positive track record there's a bazillion times more trust

>> in my competency and my integrity than there used to be with Sharon. Okay she I've regained that

but that is that scar is still there.

>> I've still got psychological scars from that experience. So, you will have that, but it'll get it'll get healed over and

uh there'll just be that, you know, that tender place where there used to be a scar. >> In your mar your previous marriage, Melissa, was there a specific thing with money? What was the actual situation? If you don't mind sharing, I'm just curious. >> Yeah. Um, so it was always my job to fix

the budget, but he would never change his spending habits. And then he would rack up tons of money on the credit card. Yeah. >> And blame me. Um, and then we refinanced

the house and we only put him on it, which caused a huge trouble in the divorce. >> Um, and he never wanted to save anything. He said, "We'll save money when we get out of debt," which we never did. >> Gotcha. >> Um, we left the marriage with debt. And so, >> have you said all of that?

>> Have you said all of that to fiance yet?

>> Um, not clearly. No.

>> Okay. Cuz I heard I heard real clear messages there. >> Yeah. You know you >> Melissa don't do debt. Melissa does savings. Melissa don't do hiding money.

>> That is very true. Yeah. >> I mean that's I got real messages out there. >> Now I have no debt. Like yeah >> I my financial life is is where I want it to be and I want it to stay that way once we get married. And so that >> Yeah. And this is not this is not about you being greedy. This is about not about you being greedy. This is about you not being harmed.

>> Yes.

Absolutely. >> Yeah. And that that's fair.

>> Yeah, >> that's fair. >> It should be that way anyway. But from where you're coming from, you guys have just got to be super clear and careful

to make sure all of these things are addressed. >> And I'm going to say, Melissa, if he's not on board on any of that, even if you can buy or not, I wouldn't do Yeah. I mean, like, that is a deep part of your story that that's not worth the gamble.

Even if you keep it separate, it won't be fun. >> It's not that's not fun. You're going to always be looking over your shoulder. You'll be looking over your shoulder looking for a bag. >> It's combine those values. It's the values you're looking for with the fiance. When your values are aligned, it is it is a beautiful life you guys create together.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

And there's a lot of drama out there in the real estate world. Especially if you do something like Instagram or Tic Tac, you'll find all the drama. All the

fields are out there regarding real estate. But here's the truth. When you got all the drama going on, there's only one way to cut through it. Facts are your friends.

When you got facts, it kind of lets the air out of the drama. And we can help you with that. We've got a great US housing market trends page at

ramseyssolutions.com/market.

And so it'll have on there what is the facts on the actual inventory, the

actual median home price, how many days

on the market, what are prices doing,

what is interest rates doing, not what your broke friend with too many beers at

happy hours opinion is.

what's really going on with real estate.

We can help you with that. And it's good news. It's good news. I mean, there there's a lot of inventory, but there's also the median home prices are steadily increasing. Not very fast, not much, but a little bit. They're not going down.

House prices are not a bubble. They're not crashing and they're not going to.

There's a million 82,520 houses on the

market right now. It's the highest inventory since 2019.

And there's a demand that's higher than that. So demand is higher than supply.

Definition is prices will go up.

Interest rates drop and prices are going to go up quicker. So be ready for that.

That's going to happen because there's people sitting on the sidelines. They're all going to jump in there at once. And so uh as soon as they soon as the bell rings, they're going to go. And so this a great time to buy, by the way, for that reason. And you you get a little negotiating power because days on the market, you know, >> yeah, there's not 83 people lined up to buy one house over the weekend >> like there was. Y'all remember those days? That was 20 minutes ago, right?

>> And uh yeah, so right now there's actually only one person.

>> So you're actually having like this negotiation like the old days. And so it's a really excellent time to have a fair conversation about a fair price.

>> It's normalized. You've always said that about the market, the the not good of like how you know the everything skyrocket, all the craziness. You always said it just needs to nor the normal the normalization of the market is the best healthiest market. Not these crazy downs.

>> Frenzy is not good. It's not it's not good for the market long term. And we had that right after co y'all remember everybody came out of their houses looking for a new house like a Baptist with a casserole. I mean it was unbelievable.

So they were everywhere and uh it was crazy and drove prices straight up and you're getting these crazy offers and all that. So, we're in a pretty calm, it's almost almost kind of quiet, but it's a really excellent time. So, all of that to say, ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes and we'll help you with facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

Rachel's in Canada. Hi, Rachel.

>> Hello. I'm here with my husband, though.

Um, >> whoa, whoa, whoa. You're you're you're breaking up. I don't know if you're moving your phone in circles or what. Let's try again. Speak directly into your phone. Let's try one more time.

>> Okay. Um, I'm here with my husband and

we don't have retirement set up for me

ahead of me. I mean, we have a 13-year age difference. I will have social security. We do have assets. So, we have

a home renting um and the rental just

dried up. So, we've listed it for sale

>> and we did finally lose you. Okay, we'll try to get it reset, honey, when we can actually hear you. We're only hearing about every third word. We're trying to hold our breath and understand what you're saying. Rosy's in New York. Hey, Rosie. What's up?

>> No, you hit the wrong one. I'm just going crazy here. What am I trying to do? All right, let me try. I'm doing the right thing. There's Rosie. Hi, Rosie.

How are you? >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can I help?

Um, my employer is offering a pre-tax

benefit for leasing a vehicle. Uh, so

would this affect the financial, you

know, advice comparison between leasing, financing, and buying a vehicle outright? >> No. Leasing a vehicle is financing a vehicle. You're signing the lease, right? >> Yes. >> No. Don't do that. No. No. No. No. No.

I'll take the money. Just give me the money and I'll go buy a car.

Even though the lease would be pre-tax and if I buy the car it will be post tax. >> Doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter. The the the deal is this. Leasing is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle mathematically.

It's a ripoff. The average cost of capital quote interest rate is 14.2%.

and and you're buying a new car and it goes down in value like a rock and all of the lost appreciation is built into the lease payment. You're financing something you cannot afford to buy and you're calling it smart because of some little quasi tax break. No, do not do

this. It's a bad deal for you, honey.

It's a bad deal. Everybody's trying to be sophisticated here and you're going to step in a bear trap with it. Don't do it. Simply pay cash for your car and if they want to give you some more money at work, I'll take it.

There's no 100% tax break.

>> Okay? So, the only way this works is if you get a 100% write off. Otherwise, you're trading dollars for quarters.

>> Mhm. >> You understand how that works?

>> No. What do you mean by there's no 100%.

>> When you have a $1,000 tax write off or you do something pre-tax $1,000, you don't save $1,000. You save a quarter.

You You save $250 in taxes.

>> Yeah. You save like 30%. Yes. Yeah. And so you're trading a dollar for 30 cents.

>> Bad trade >> for the extra you're paying on the lease is what you're saying. >> Yeah. Well, and you're and you're in the process in the name of sophistication or in the name of tax breaks or sophisticated tax breaks, if we want to put the two words together, you're you're doing a really dumb butt deal economically and mathematically just to get involved in the tax thing.

and and um you know 100% of the time

that you do something only because of the tax, it's a bad deal. You do the

smart things and get whatever tax break you can get on the smart things and you move on. >> That that that's the only thing you do.

And so I'll give you an example of that out there that's floating around right now into the big beautiful bill or whatever the flip they called it. They did away with the tax credits, not

deductions for the solar units on your

home. Oh yeah, >> at the end of the year. So a bunch of people are running out right now and financing solar units at 18% so they don't miss the tax break. Stupid.

Mathematically stupid. But it created

this false scenario because the end of the year it's over and now solar actually has to mathematically stand on its own without a false tax prop.

And so solar's actually got to cost less than real electricity or the regular electric, you know, it actually has to work now mathematically without a false government propup.

And uh but people are going, "Oh god, I can't miss the tax break." And they're spending more than the tax break because they can't afford to finance it. And and they're buying solar panels like they're like they're going out. Oh jeez. It's the same thing. We're motivated by the wrong thing when you're motivated by taxes. >> Same with people keeping their mortgage. sometimes. >> Yeah, it's a tax. Great example. Great example. 92% of the people this year in America will not take an itemized

deduction. They will do standard deductions. >> If you do not itemize on your tax return, you do not get the write off on your home.

The only way you get to write the mortgage off the mortgage interest rate on your home is you have to itemize.

Only 8% of Americans do that. But a

whole bunch of that 92 that aren't actually taking the write- off go, "Well, I'm keeping my mortgage because it's saving me all my No, it's not.

You're not itemizing.

That's just stupid." God, man. But it's just, you know what that that's internet theology is what it is. It's a problem. And people just You're exactly right. So, if you did actually do it, let's say you had a thou $10,000 in interest and you're in the

highest possible tax bracket, 37%. Okay.

And you wrote off 30. So So 300 or 3,000

bucks in tax in actual tax savings will

come from you having a $10,000

interest bill. So what people are saying then is these are the ones that actually do itemize is I'm going to send the

mortgage company 10,000 to keep from sending the government 3,000.

No, I need to say that again. I'm going to send the government 10 I'm going to send the mortgage company $10,000 to keep from sending the government 3,000 and I'm going to strut around like I'm smart when I traded a dollar for 30. No,

you're stupid.

That's it.

[Music]

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housing lender.

Mauricio is in New York. Hi, Mauricio.

How are you?

>> I'm good. Yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, here's my situation. I have a uh business and I have three other partners involved in it. And one partner really hasn't been pulling his weight for

probably two years out of the three that we've been open at this point. And we've already had talks and we've had all this other stuff and he doesn't seem he he promises he's going to do it. He doesn't do it. Ultimately, I I don't think I could work with him anymore. I don't trust him anymore. How can I go about going to the next step or what should that be?

Well, this is one of the reasons we say the only ship that won't sail is a partnership. Um the uh because very few

of them make it for this is one of the reasons they don't make it. Um I'm hoping and I'm betting not, but I'm hoping you guys have detailed partnership agreements.

>> We do. >> Okay. Does it not does it address

what happens if one of the partners isn't isn't falling in line with the other three?

How do you how do you remove someone?

How do you remove someone?

>> So, it's basically a buyout, uh, whatever those terms are in terms of money. So, basically what it was was you get you get, hey, here's 30-day notice.

>> You're not doing what you're supposed to do. You get 30 days to fix it. After the 30 days, basically, then you're out and whatever whatever the terms that we had.

>> And, do you have the money to write him the check that the document requires?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What are the other partners saying?

>> The same. >> Okay. >> They're done working with them. >> Okay. So, y'all are all in agreement.

>> Yeah. So, I I guess you just execute what the plan says, don't you? What what why would you not do that?

>> Sit down and say you have you know our document says that you have 30 days to to fix this to all three of our satisfaction. And so, you know, you've been sitting on your butt and we can't say you're sitting on your butt anymore.

We're done with it. And we don't think you're going to turn it. So, we'd rather you just not even work the 30 days and just take the check and go.

>> Right. The problem here here comes the kind of the the the the fly in the ointment, so to speak. >> Okay. I was waiting on I knew there was an addition. >> What? >> Right. There's always something. Right.

Last year, we did a lot more. And the terms are a percentage of year-toate revenue as your buyout. Right.

>> So, from last year to this year, we're about >> 60% down of what we were at the same time. So he wants to kind of drag this thing out as much as possible.

>> That'd be awesome because these bad numbers are going to be the ones you calculate on, >> right? But and that's why he's kind of like I think he should I get a lawyer involved like this is just enough.

>> So if you write him a check today, what is the check? Have you calculated it?

>> I would say probably right now probably close to like $20,000. That's it.

>> Oh jeez, man. Write the check.

>> Yeah. >> Get rid of the dude. I don't think he'll take it. That's the problem. >> He don't have a choice. And I don't want >> He don't have a choice. The formula's in the document.

>> And then what? I'd have to go to a lawyer after that. >> The formula is in the document. If he wants to argue with the document, he's going to lose in court. >> Right. But then I Right. I have to take him to court. That's what it >> No, you don't have to take him to court. He has to take you to court. You're throwing him out. I'm taking his keys and his computer >> by the terms of the day. off of all the like thank all that stuff.

>> Do what? Yeah. Take him off of everything. Yeah. If if we're going to be adversarial, then let's get to it.

But if we can be kind about this and go, "This thing just didn't work and you're going to wander off on your way with a $20,000 check." Then we can be kind and easy about this. But either way, he's got to be taken off of everything. Someone leaves Ramsay on good terms or bad terms, that day, their FOB no longer works to get in the building. Hello.

That's just normal stuff.

>> Partnership. I don't think they allow me to take him off on the bank stuff. That's what my concern is.

>> Why not? Of course you can. You've executed the document. >> Well, you're saying that he has to be he has to sign off is what you're saying on the bank stuff.

>> I I would assume so. As far as everything that we've done since >> No, you have you have partnership documents that show that you have removed him >> and he can take it to the bank. >> You take those down to the bank and you say, "Guys, you take him off this account or I'm closing I'm I'm pulling all the money out of this account and I'm going to another bank and open one with the three guys.

right? >> You're not going to hold me hostage over here. It's not happening.

>> So, you just got to tactically work through the different details. And >> you know, if he's got other stuff that's proprietary, you've got to get it out of his possession >> and you've got to shut down his passwords and stuff. >> I'm worried about >> passwords and stuff. So, you think you think this is going to go sour?

>> Oh, I know it is because he he's he's been spiteful up until now. So, a lot of the times it's like, hey, >> a great guy. Spiteful and lazy. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really great.

And the the the the problem is it's like listen, I I'm I'm welcome my third daughter into this life right now. I I can't have this guy hanging over my head if he's not going to pull his weight. And I don't want to make it tough because >> No, it's not it's not. Hey, I want you to change your pro pronouns. It's not I, it's we.

>> All three of us are sick of him.

>> Yes. No, you're right. >> We're done, dude. Here's your $20,000 check. And it's how here's how it's calculated. >> How many conversations have you guys had with him? a lot.

>> This would probably be the fifth one in two years. >> Yeah. And it's it's a character issue.

The guy's just lazy. He's a lazy hound dog in the sun on the front porch. He ain't getting up. >> But he's is he a good Well, he's spiteful, you said. I don't know. There's a book called Ideal Team Player.

And he could be what is it? The the lovable slacker.

>> There's like the the guy who I don't know. Yeah. He may not be lovable, though. So, that may not be him.

>> No. No. What you know what it is is it's also the position that he had or he has

is the fact that it's not really super important to the company and when asked to grow was when the problem started like hey you have to take on a little bit more responsibility like the rest of us had >> and he's like no I just want to stay in my lane and the problem is because of his lack of trying >> I I feel like it directly correlated to the fact that we went you know from >> over over a certain amount to less than what we had you Al. So, >> so if it were me in this situation, >> hours, you work in 10.

>> Okay. Yeah. You don't want to get into who shot anything. Okay.

When we've let someone go at Ramsay, >> it's a 10-minute conversation because there's been a bunch of conversations before that.

discussions. We've talked about the different issues. It's written down >> and now we're done. >> Documented. >> And so, it's um, hey, today's your last day here. I'm sorry this didn't work. We tried everything. you know that we love you and we want you to succeed somewhere else. And um we're as of right now, none

of your passwords or your computer doesn't work. We'll need to catch your cell phone and your pass and your computer. Um if you want to go to your desk and get your stuff, that's fine. But if you'd rather not do that walk of shame and come back tonight after hours, HR will meet you and you can just go to the car and go home and have the rest of the day and talk to your family and everything.

Tell them what happened. and we, you know, it's about a six-inute conversation and um that's where you are. So, >> yeah, but this guy's an I mean this it's a partner. So, the three of you sit down together in a room in person with the check in front of you and say and a document that says that this is our separation.

He gets the check. He turns over his stuff and we're sorry it didn't work, dude. We thought when we started this it was going to be a good thing and it hadn't worked out. We tried. We talked about it and this is the end of it. This

is your last day here. Well, I don't care. I I'm going to get a lawyer. I know. But you can do whatever you want to do, but this is your last day here.

Well, I'm going to be pissed. I'm sorry, but this is your last day here. Well, I I'm sorry. I'm going to cry and I want to start again. And let's give me one more chance. I'm sorry, but this is your last day here.

>> The decision has been made. The decision has been made without >> right. Can we continue working? If he wants to get lawyers involved and all that stuff, we can continue on. We don't have to stop to wait for anything. Right. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't wait on anything. You just you you you go on as if he left the building happy and then you just got this side issue that's going to burn some calories and some money called defending your position.

>> But it should be an openandsh case based on what you're telling me. I'm not an attorney, but you're telling me the document clearly gives you the right to let this guy go.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. That that's how we signed off on it. All four of us.

>> So, >> and there is a clear formula on how the payout is done. And here's another thing. Here's a cool thing. All right.

Let's say let's say you run the calculation. It's $22,422.

Okay? >> Right? >> Make it 25.

>> Yeah. >> Be generous. Okay? And go, listen, there's a little bit more on here. And just just because here's the actual calculation. Here's what you're due.

We're going to put a little mayonnaise on here on the bun. And this is your last day here.

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Heat. Heat. N.

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Today's question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? If your private

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Not in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Olivia in North Carolina. She said, "My husband and I earn close to $500,000 a year with

no debt except for our home. The mortgage payment is $2,500 a month. We max out all of our retirement accounts.

kids college funds are on track. We have expendable money every month that we find ourselves spending on silly purchases. For me, it's purses. For my husband, it's electronics. We don't live in a mansion and we can afford all these items, but we do recognize it's a waste of money and frankly, they can just create clutter. Neither of us are enjoy

eating out or traveling and we are very content with our lives. How do we stop wasting money on silly material purchases even if we can afford them and

we're doing all the right things already? That's a great question,

Olivia. Yeah, I mean I think understanding why you're buying these things in the first place. What is it?

Just because you just feel like we just have the money, so we're we need to enjoy and spend it and that's that's the motivation. Is it uh because you're bored and you need excitement? Right? So finding that motivation of why you're making the purchases in the first place will help you determine and set some values around extra money that you have.

And I mean I would I didn't hear any giving in this equation, Olivia. Maybe you guys are, but I would probably up your giving. Uh, it's amazing what you could do if you could find, you know, people in your lives, a single mom or

someone who's working the baby steps and giving, you know, a $500 spa gift card

to the wife or, you know, giving them gift cards to go out to eat. Like, spend the money in the way of giving while

also enjoying it. But I wonder the fulfillment on that end is so much greater than just buying stuff to buy it. So enjoy some of it, but I would be upping your giving because I think that's going to bring you a longer term level of contentment down the down the road. >> The word I heard in the whole thing was clutter and um which meant it's not

satisfying.

You know, I'm not I I do this and then it's not satisfying. There's just regret. It feels like a financial hangover after I do it. So, I would pick up uh our friends uh Joshua and the gang at the minimalists.

Why don't you start watching some of their videos and uh check out some of their books? They've got a couple of documentaries on Netflix. And um the

minimalist, the idea is is that we don't need as much stuff. And not that stuff is evil, but that just collecting stuff for the sake of collecting stuff is ridiculous. And that's kind of what she's saying in a sense here. So, that's one thing I would do. The second thing I would do is you guys need a written budget. You're not living on a budget.

And uh a budget is simply being intentional with every dollar. It you don't need a budget is not a chokeold for people that are broke. A budget's you're telling your money what to do.

That's all it is. And if you have a line item that has a certain a dollar amount in it for these types of purchases, then

you don't go over that. And you set that and you go, "Okay, you could set it high when you start and you go, well, that's that's still too much. I don't I think we're buying too much crap." Mhm. >> And then you could lower the amount, but you can set an amount in the cool of the evening when the two of you are sane and

you're sitting at the kitchen table, then when the insanity kicks in later, whatever this weird motivation is is driving all of this, then you can look down and go, "Wait a minute. The uh calm, logical me told the crazy me not to do this." >> Yeah. >> And that's what the budget is. It's telling you what to do when you were and you told you what to do, your future self not to do this.

>> Yeah. And I think it's a good practice maybe for you guys and it sounds kind of extreme, but what if like for one month you said, you know what, we're not going to we're not going to buy we don't need to buy stuff for one month. >> No spin. No spin.

>> Yeah. And no spend month and just practice it.

want this and this and I have money. I have $2. Can we go to Target? Can we please go to Target so I can spend my $2?" And it was just I mean they were just like these ankle bartered conversations constantly and I was like, "You know what?

We're not spending money this summer, you guys." I want I did but the kids you're not spending money and whatever you have at the end of the summer we'll double it. We'll match you for what you have at the end of the summer but you're not spending.

It was a little less than a week because they would ask and ask and then they they stopped asking and they just were content with what they had. But you kind of have to put in this practice even as adults. I mean I do this sometimes to myself where I'm like I'm just buying Amazon stuff and I don't need to buy it. I don't need another box of earrings. Right? like it just kind of gets to this point even even if you can afford it.

There's something about practicing that contentment of just kind of just shutting everything off and not forever >> but just to get a baseline back to a level of just I don't know that contentment and that steadiness.

>> Yeah. >> So maybe that's what you guys do. Do something extreme for one month and see what happens. >> That's fun. I like that. Jaylen is in Toledo. Hi Jaylen. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Uh so the reason I'm calling is is I'm having a hard time uh building my savings with a fluctuating income.

>> How what's your total income?

>> Uh so I've got two separate I've got a primary and a secondary source of income. So I'm a actually a uh 100% TNT

disabled veteran. Um so I get about

48.5K a year non-t taxable.

>> Uh and then my secondary income is I'm a live streamer. on um a live streaming platform and I bring roughly about $2,000 a month um from that.

>> Okay. All right.

>> It's about 6,000 a monthish you're bringing in. >> Just about there. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what's irregular? Just the the variation in the 2000.

>> Um Yes. The variation in in the in the 2000. >> Yeah. So, what's your do you have months you get zero on that?

>> I'm sorry. Do you ever have a zero month on that?

>> Um, a zero month. What do you mean by that? >> On the streaming, do you ever have a month you make zero?

>> Oh, no. Absolutely not. So, >> what's your worst month streaming?

>> Uh, my worst month streaming this month is actually I can pull that up for you.

Um, my worst month streaming was 2,00

No, sorry, $1,885.

The most I made was 7,200.

>> Okay. All right. And the average is

2,000.

>> Yes, sir. >> Wow. So that 7200 was a mammoth month.

>> Uh it was for my birthday. So I I did like a special event for my birthday and I don't have that money anymore. I got married about a little over a month ago.

So all that money went towards the uh the service and everything.

>> Okay. Congratulations. What does she make? >> Thank you. >> Uh she makes about 30k a year. She's a

data analyst. >> Mhm. Okay. So your household budget is around 9 or you guys are bringing in on average 9,000. Do you know how much your monthly expenses are to run the household entirely? Insuranceances, rent, mortgage, electricity, water, clothes, everything. Do you know?

>> Um I I know a few of those. So my mortgage just recently got lowered from just total of what it takes to operate >> to run your household. How much would it cost a month? >> The whole thing? >> Um probably around maybe 2500 I'd say.

>> Okay. So, your number one problem, Jaylen, is you don't know what your expenses are.

>> Mhm. >> So, so that's what I would do. I would do a very, very detailed budget tonight with your newlywed wife. It's going to be very romantic and very wonderful.

Sit down. You're going to do a budget and you guys are going to look at the line item. We'll give you Every Dollar premium. And it connects to your bank, but you guys sit down with that app and fill it out.

And if there's categories in there that are that are part of your life that are not in the Every Dollar app, add them. There's areas that you can add, go through, do a very detailed budget, and you need that total of how much it's going to cost.

household. Well, then that's great. That means, you know, you guys have $6,000 of margin, which is amazing. So, there there's some savings. I mean, that would be incredible. >> So, your premise that you're having a hard time budgeting because you have a fluctuating income is false. And the reason it's false is a very small percentage of your income is actually fluctuating like almost none of it. Okay? And so

because you've got her 2500, you got your disability and then you've got a baseline of probably close to 2,000 on the streaming that's every month. And so the only volatility is what above 2,000 that you're going to make and what to do with that. That's your only volatility.

And that's not keeping you from laying out a plan like Rachel's saying. So, you've got to sit down and do the discipline of spending your money on paper on the app before the month begins. And when you give every dollar an assignment before the month begins, as Rachel said, um then if you get a windfall and you have a you have a $6,000 month instead of a $2,000 month, you quickly will know what to do with that other $4,000 because you'll have already laid out a game plan for everything else.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us, America.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Jessica's in Illinois. Hi Jessica, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you guys? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. >> Um well, I was just calling, I guess, um with a question. So, my um husband um

passed away unexpectedly earlier this year. >> Um we're both um in our upper 30s.

>> I'm sorry. What happened?

>> Um he had a heart attack.

>> Wow. In his 30s.

>> In his 30s. >> How long y'all been married?

>> Um we've been married just shy of two years when he passed. >> Oh my. I'm so sorry. Yep.

>> Thank you. Um, so I guess I'm just calling um with I guess looking for advice, looking, you know, morally

just to see if the angle that I'm looking at is the right angle. Um, we had talked about previous um to getting married or engaged pre um after getting married um in regards to changing our beneficiaries on everything. Um we were very set um I guess intellectually like

with um on our morals and values and

what we wanted in life, our future goals. Um we are in the process of building a home that actually we just got the occupancy approval yesterday. Um I have um a daughter of my own as well prior to our marriage. But I guess what I'm looking for is um when we had discussed life insurance um and beneficiaries, we both agreed that we would update with everything that we had going on.

We were trying to have children of our own. Um like I said, building a home.

And I recently found out in going through my husband's estate that um his life insurance policy, he has a term life and then a supplemental. And um I found out his sister was the beneficiary on the term life still. So that had not been switched over um as we had discussed. So I am only getting um half of the life insurance. So now having to

finagle his estate um all the debt. So

he did have um assets prior to us being

married um that I am now um the heir of

his estate. So I take on all all debts including any credit card debt.

>> No no no no no. That's not true.

>> Only if you want the assets. Only if you want the assets. So, >> right. Yeah. Only if I want the assets. >> So, how how much in assets did he have?

>> Sure. So, he had um about $155,000

worth the assets of what's owed on the assets, I should say. >> That's the debt he had.

>> So, what is it? Like a rental property or something or what? >> Um nope. So he had um a decent size um

plot of land um and then a building on the land and then we also built our home on that land. >> Okay. >> As well, which the home is in my name and his but everything else is just in his name. >> So the the land the house is on a

different plat separated the parcels.

>> Got it. Okay. So the land it the rest of

the land that the house is not on was in his name and it is worth what?

Um, I'd say the land and the shop are probably worth um between 250 and

300,000. >> Okay. And and there's 155 owed on it.

>> Um there's um a little under 100 owed on

just the land. >> Oh, separate assets. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, you are correct. The land

>> the equity in the land stands good for his debt. You do not take on the debt unless you want to keep the land.

Yes. >> And so, and that's what you're saying.

You want to keep the land, so you're willing to take on the debt, but you don't get the debt automatically. When someone dies, what they own stands good for what they owe. Assets minus liabilities. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And so, let's pretend for everybody listening that that he had um assets of

30,000 and debts of a 100,000.

You would turn the assets loose. you're not going to take on these debts because you don't inherit debt in the United States.

>> Okay? >> Okay. You follow the difference? So, in other words, you're willing and I I think you're wise, you're willing, if you're able financially, to accept the 155,000 to get the 300.

>> Mhm. >> That that's a and it's adjacent to your new house, you know. So, all all of that. Okay. Now, then you're you were leading all to another question. So, how can we help? Um well I I guess I was just leading more or less to um to give

a little context in regards you know my husband and I have been together for five years in total.

>> Um our families both very close. I made

it in with his family immediately. They I fell in love with them. They fell in love with me and vice versa for my husband with my family. They no question

loved him. So my question is with my

sister and he for whatever reason didn't

change his life insurance policy over like we had discussed and now I'm only receiving half which is not enough to pay for our home. >> Okay. >> So now I'm being forced to sell our home I guess. So my question is is just looking for advice morally.

>> You know I I need to have conversations with her on how this has made me feel. It's emotionally draining. I'm going through probate. I >> you feel like she should give you the money? >> I >> Right. As his wife cuz it sounds selfish, but it's a life insurance policy. The purpose of it is so that >> Yeah. But your husband your husband didn't change the beneficiary. So it's not your sister-in-law's fault.

>> She didn't do anything wrong. And she does not have a moral obligation to do this. He had a moral obligation to fix it before he died, >> but she does not have a moral obligation to give you this money.

>> Um and it's not yours. you don't have any rights to it morally, ethically, certainly not legally. Um, if she wanted to give it to you because it was in the intent, then that would be a kind thing to do. And um but but she's not

obligated to. And I don't think you have a right to be mad at her if she doesn't.

>> Um >> No. And I understand that. I'm I guess I was just looking to see an outside perspective. >> Yeah. I mean, I I hear you, Jessica.

sucks that you know you your husband's life insurance is going to his sister and you're like oh my gosh but we have a life here. I mean that that's not fun.

>> I want to cry with you but I'm kind of mad at your dead husband. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> You know cuz he should have done this you know and and you are too really if you admit it but um I'm sorry. I mean but it's just that cuz it left you in a lurch. So now you're going to have to sell the whole kittens a boo.

>> Have you talked to the sister? I'm just curious if y'all had any level of conversation of like the obvious. I don't know. >> We've had conversations in regards to it because like I said, I was completely shocked by the

>> Well, um, she had asked for a death certificate and I was kind of shocked by it and I had asked, "What do you need it for?" And she just said, "Some time-sensitive paperwork." And so then I got gave the death certificate and then I just I said, "Can I just ask what it's like what you you would need it for, I guess." And she's just like, "Well, life insurance.

just verify that you are for sure before you go and send in for this and it gets paid out and you're really not cuz bas like I said based off my conversations with my husband >> and she said >> had changed everything around >> and what did she say?

>> She just said, "I'm sorry. I don't know all to say." >> Yeah. you're you're not getting this money, hun. So, um I'm so sorry. You're

gonna at least sell the piece of land.

You may be selling both things and restarting your life with what you have because you've been through a tragedy and a horrible situation. >> So, sorry. >> And the paperwork wasn't done properly.

Gosh, I'm so sorry.

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[Music] Are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. That's why we call it personalized. Simply head to the show notes, click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quiz. Did I mention it's free? All right. Atlanta's calling Karina. Hi, Karina. How are you?

>> Hello. Good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, yes sir. I wanted some advice on

what to do or um I have two teenagers. I

have a 16-year-old boy and a 19year-old.

And in regards to purchasing their own vehicle, I've heard you say before um

that you would have them save and you would match um but because we obviously

were not very good with our money before and I wanted to know if if it's okay.

We're in baby step three now. If it's okay to help them um purchase a vehicle

even though they're not going to put as much down or as much towards the vehicle

or is there any other way that they can have their skin in the game if we're able to purchase like a $3,000 car for

them? >> Well, do they have any money saved?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, they do have they just started a job this week. Um, but it's part-time because they have school. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. >> But no, they do not.

>> Okay. You're on baby step three, which means you worked your way out of debt.

And then you just asked me a question about putting your teenagers into debt.

That's inconsistent. >> Not I don't I don't want to put the not >> Well, you said I'm not down. You said down. >> I did, but >> there's no down unless there's alone. >> She doesn't mean She didn't mean alone, though. Did you? >> Correct. No. >> Yeah. I think she just meant them contributing money.

>> Car. >> What? Them contributing money. That's what she meant. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yes. >> What?

>> You misunderstood. >> Uh, no, I didn't. Okay.

>> She did. She did say down, but >> All right. The um uh um All right. So,

what's your household income, hun?

>> We're at 135.

>> Okay. All right. And so give me a scenario under which the 19-year-old would buy a car and how you would participate and how they would participate.

>> Tell me what that might look like.

>> Yes, sir. So I was what we had spoken

about is that um like the example you give that they

would save up like 2,000 and we would do the 2,000 and then find a $4,000 car, >> right? Um but um right now because they

need their a vehicle to move around and

we do have another vehicle in the household. I just don't know if um like

gifting it to them and then find another way how they can >> No. So they So you have three cars >> in the game. >> You have three cars, right?

>> I we have two cars.

>> Two cars.

>> What's the extra?

>> Oh, >> you don't have a vehicle for the teenagers. Do you have a car? Your husband has a car?

>> No, my husband drives a company vehicle.

>> So, >> and then I have I use one to go to work and then they're using the other one.

>> So, then they can share that. You don't have to give it to them, but they >> just share the use of it. It's your car >> and then save up the money and then when they have money saved, >> if they want their own car, they need to save some money and go get one.

>> Okay. >> But they can use yours. They can use your old car until they do.

>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

>> That's all you need to do. I at 16 and 19, it's too late to start any kind of a matching program. I would just tell them, "Kids, y'all can use this. As long as you're living here, but when you get ready to go out on your own, >> uh, you're going to need a car.

So, you need to start saving for a car. And if you want to not drive this car, you need to start saving for a car. And there will be no car payments while you live under my roof." >> Hey. >> Yes, they understand that.

>> I know. I just want to tell them again. Yeah. >> Okay.

So, Karina, I I would be okay with you still doing the matching program, you know? I mean, not until they're like 26 or something, but while they're still living in your home, if they work, if they're working and sharing that car and they save their own $2,000 and you and your husband have that to spare and you guys want to still match that, >> that's okay if you want to do that. You want to do that, but there's just not a lot of time. And so really, if a 19-year-old does this and they and they're living at home, they got no overhead, they got no rent, they got no food problem, then all they got to do is go make a big pile of money and stack cash.

>> Yes, sir. >> You know, and you can make enough he can make enough by Christmas to buy a car.

Hello.

>> Yes, sir. That that's our plan. That's our goal because we did have a conversation. I just didn't know because they were like older.

>> Yeah. If you want to help them a little bit that like Rachel said, some match that's okay. But uh uh yeah, some level of match is fine. And but but the good news is I'm really helping you.

You get to use this car for free. You get to live here for free. So you got no use for money except stacking it to buy a car. So stack it.

Don't spend it >> and go get you a car by Christmas. And you know, >> go, you know, hey, try you're 19, try working 40 hours a week.

>> You should be able to. You don't have any expenses. So, um, that that's but I'll if you want to put two more with it and help them get a seven, great. I'm I'm that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But the the you're right that the inconsistency with our story is that

that we started that when our kids were really young, that discussion. And so that matching thing has a whole different set of lessons to it that you don't get the benefit of the lessons here because it's just a short term. The lesson here is work hard, stack cash, buy something with cash. That's the lesson.

and and it's going to be a very short microwavable thing rather than a crock-pot thing. >> And that that's the the process. But yeah, and just, you know, because the culture and all of their friends are telling them to go get a car payment, don't be afraid to repeat yourself a lot that we don't do car payments for people that live in this house. >> But can a 16-year-old go get a car payment on their own?

what we do here and you 16 year olds

often times don't hear something the first time you say it. >> She said down early on and you have attached attached to that. >> I am just saying be real careful here. I

don't want anybody making assumptions. This is how this works and this is how it doesn't work. So that's the whole thing. That's what we're doing. All right. Mark's in Virginia. Hey Mark, what's up? >> Hey, I'm uh getting ready to retire.

>> Cool. >> And uh trying to figure out how to go

from a uh a saver mentality to a uh a

spender mentality. >> H how much what's your net worth?

>> Uh seven or eight, something like that.

>> Seven or eight dollars.

>> Million. >> Okay, good. I was hoping >> Dave likes to hear that word.

>> I was hoping. Good. Way to go, Mark.

>> Well done, Mark. Congratulations.

>> We did good. >> So, um, Sharon and I, most people who do

what you've done, you've probably started from nothing and you've worked your tail end off and you've saved like a maniac and that's how you got here. Congratulations. You're a success.

You're a stud. Well done. But what has h now what you've got to do is, as you said, you need to learn to enjoy money more than maybe you ever have. And you've got plenty of margin to do that because if your if your mutual funds are earning 12% 11% and you pull 10, you got

700,000 a year to do something with

without touching the nest egg. Okay? If

you if you if it all made if your portfolio averaged 10% on 7 million, you follow me? So you got a five $600,000 $700,000 income off of your investments

without messing up your investments. So Sharon and I have done two things to learn to develop to get past the emotional part of spending money cuz it feels weird when you spend money and you've been working so hard saving money which is your question. So two things we did.

One is we increase our generosity.

We're very intentional and look people in the eye like crazy tips crazy uh

catch somebody doing something right. just walk up and buy uh put a set of tires on somebody's car that you're looking at them and they look like they need some help at the gas station and let's go over there the discount tire.

I'm going to spend $1,000 put tires on your car and just start doing some weird stuff like that. Uh just pocket money random. >> I have I have been doing that and it feels really good. It does. I'll tell you what. >> The interesting thing is it's the same muscle. Generosity is the same muscle as a spending muscle.

>> Yeah. It loosens up the spending muscle if you're generous because it's the same thing because you're letting go of money in both cases where with saving you're holding on to money. Both of these are learning to hold with an open hand. The second thing we've learned to do is we just have the burn the money in the middle of the floor question.

If we're going to if you buy something for $70,000 and you burnt that money in the middle of the floor, would it change your life? Not a nickel. Nothing would change.

antique car that you've always wanted, whoopty-d doesn't change anything. Now,

if you go spend 800,000, you could you could put a dent in this thing. That'd be a problem.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

The money and marriage getaway here on the Ramsey campus is a hugely popular

event. It sells out every time we do it.

Dr. Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz here with me uh are the hosts and uh it's a weekend long event at our Ramsey Event Center here on our campus and it is incredible. It's lifech changing. Uh

they get into the details. I can tell you that. Tickets start at $7.49 a couple. The next one is in November and then we're doing one on in February around Valentine's Day, February 12th through 14.

So you can get your tickets for the lowest price before they end at ramseyolutions.comgetaway or click the link in the show notes. And Rachel, this thing is um with you and John doing it to start with. People need to know that's like standup comedy. It's going to be really funny.

>> So well, we do dive into the two topics.

Yeah. In a lot of depth. I talk obviously about the money side and how do you do this as a couple? What does that look like?

because there's so many different angles and approaches and topics around that. And then John dives into the marriage portion. And so it is uh yeah, it's a really fun weekend and it and it's a very impactful weekend because we want you to come and leave not just overwhelmed with, oh gosh, I have so many things to do, but really a a plan and an awareness in your marriage that you may have not have had. So that's our hope for you.

>> Yeah. Some inspiration. Yeah. To do something even bigger and better.

It's very cool. the money and marriage weekend again, November and February.

they sell out every time and so if you want your tickets, jump in there right now and get them done. Andrews in Florida. Hi Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um so I have a I got a a truck pay. I'm

21. Um I got a truck I financed uh

25,000 with a 23.8% interest. I know I'm

down for that. >> God. Uh, and uh, I owe 21,86 on it right

now and I paid on it for two years and I

can't refinance it because at the time of I got the first the truck the truck loan, I had a car loan out and that car got totaled and GAP didn't pay for it all. So, I paid it out. I have a letter from the finance company saying it's a paid off, but they put a repo on my credit and they won't take it off and I'm like $10,000 upside down on my truck and I just don't know how to get out of it. >> Who who said the truck's worth 12?

>> Uh the dealerships and Kelly Blue Book.

>> Well, dealerships buy it wholesale, honey. So, you you looked at Kelly Blue Book for what? You can private sale it or what a wholesale is?

>> Uh private sale. I have it posted right now for 15,000 and I was just going to use use money use my own money to pay

off the rest. >> No, not really. My fiance does. She's going to help me out. >> No, no, you don't you don't take money from somebody you're not married to, honey. That's another bad plan. You're going from one bad idea to another. Um >> Yes, sir. >> So, you don't have any money. You personally?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. >> Do you work Andrew?

>> Uh yes. So, I'm a electrician apprentice, but I just broke my foot. So, I'm waiting on that to heal before I can go back. I'm in a real tough spot.

>> How much How much do you make a year when you're working full-time?

>> Uh, in between, I'm going say 30 to

50,000 a year. It depends on the job and where I'm at with >> Okay. >> Yeah. When will you be back to work?

>> Uh, I'm not sure. I got to see I got a doctor's appointment tomorrow to go over my x-rays. Okay. And >> how long ago did you break it?

>> Uh about a month ago. >> Okay. So you'll be back pretty quick unless you really >> you in a boot or like a scooter thing.

>> I'm in an aircast boot. So yeah, this construction sites don't like you on the job site. >> Okay. And when are you guys getting married?

>> Uh we were hoping for December. Um but

we might have to postpone.

>> Why?

>> Uh financial reasons and just some stuff between us. want to be ready.

>> Okay. Um, well, I would not take money from her until you guys are officially married. And so, it would be you doing this all on your own. And have you gotten any any interest with it listed

at 15?

>> Uh, no, not really. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, that that's going to be your best bet and to be saving up some money because you're right. I mean, I doubt you'll be able to get a loan for the difference. That's usually what we say when it's upside down, but with your credit and having a repo, it may be tough to get a small loan, but that would be >> Mhm. >> What can you do right now while your foot's in the boot to make some money?

>> Uh, I've uh I know a guy, he owns his

own company, and he's uh starting another branch doing RV repair, but it's still very new. So, he's just paying me, I think, $16 an hour to watch YouTube videos to learn. So, I have some type of income. Um, but it's not it's not

everything I need right now.

>> Why is he paying you to learn to work on RVs if you intend to go back to being an electrician?

>> Uh, cuz he's really trying to just help me out. He we go to church together and he sees I'm in a tough spot. So, uh, and I I just like learning everything I can.

>> Yeah. And how many hours a week are you getting paid to do this right now?

>> Uh, right around 40.

>> Wow.

Okay. >> That's a bright spot. And >> yeah, he's a he's a very generous man.

Okay. >> Yes, sir. It is. >> Um being very kind to you. Yeah. So, what I'm going to do if if I'm in your shoes is exactly what Rachel said. Um if

we can't solve the issues that are keeping you from getting married and and

advance the um marriage date, um I I

would not wait to get married based on financial problems. I would wait to get married if there's other problems. And I you mentioned two things. So, um, but you don't need to save up and have a wedding. You're two broke children. You don't have any money. You're 21. You got no money. So, you don't need to wait two years and save up $20,000 to have a wedding. Just go get married for goodness sakes. People do that all the time. And 40 years later, they tell the story. And so, um, uh, you know that.

But if you've got if there are relational issues that you need to solve, then do solve those. I'm not telling you to rush into something that doesn't look good. >> Uh but if you go get married, then that solves the problem because you've got the money then to cover this. And I wouldn't marry her just for that reason.

But don't take money from somebody you're not married to. It's going to put a strain on a relationship. And if there's already problems, it's going to make it worse because the borrower is slave to the lender, even your girlfriend, every time. That's the way that works.

100% chance that it changes the relationship when you borrow money from somebody every time. So, don't borrow money. Now, if the relational issues are minor and you're waiting on some kind of weird financial thing, put that to the side.

Go ahead and get married. If the relationship issues are a reason to wait, then Rachel's right. I would tell you to wait. If that is not the case, then what you've got to do is do nothing but work all the time until you get

enough money to get out of this ridiculous truck deal. 25% interest and

$25,000 for a 21-year-old. Whoever sold you that should be beat with a stick. That's just

immoral.

It's just thievery. They just completely

saw you coming and screwed you. But we

can't do anything about it now except learn our lesson and never go back on

the property where you bought that truck the rest of your life. Those are not

good people. Get away from them. Stay away from them. And then let's get this stinking thing paid down and get it sold.

Get you a $3,000 truck and get your life back because this thing owns you right now. Man, I'm sorry. I've been trapped. I've felt that way.

That's why I'm kind of angry right now for you because I know how you feel. And uh you can get there. But that's our guidelines. Uh get you some money and get out of this truck and or get married and get out of this truck.

Get this thing sold, dude. >> Yeah. >> And >> I mean on some years this is costing half of his annual income. I mean it's >> God almighty.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just a it's just >> No, more than that. I mean if he's making 30 some years.

Yeah. So you feel it though, Andrew. And it's a good listen. I mean, learn.

>> The good news is you never have to do it again the rest of your whole life. This is one lesson you have learned. And so with me, I do stupid stuff all the time, but my goal is just to not do the same stupid stuff.

And that that this one's on this is this is on your list. This is look at what I did when I was 21. I did this stupid thing and I'll never do it again. And you got the whole rest of your life to live with that lesson and be smart and and not let somebody ever tattoo you again on a car deal. Oh my gosh.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Deuteronomy 7:9.

Know therefore that the Lord your God is God. He is the faithful God, keeping his

covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments. Ronald Reagan said, "I've wondered at times about what the Ten Commandments would look like if Moses had run them through the US Congress."

Reagan. Oh man. Jake is in Washington

DC. Hey Jake, what's up?

Hey, how's it going Ramsey crew? How's it going today? >> Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help? >> Hey, so uh I'm getting married in 18

days and me and my fiance were in incredibly blessed situation and we're wondering what to do with all of our inherited money that we have and you know how to uh be responsible with it and how to um you know, just give back to the community and make a positive impact on the world. So, >> phenomenal. So, who's inheriting money?

You or her? >> Uh, we've both already inherited it.

>> Oh, okay. How much did she inherit?

>> Uh, she inherited close to um 4.5

million and I inherited close to uh

300,000.

>> Oh, a little different. Okay, cool.

>> Where did hers come from?

Um hers came from um hers came from her

grand both of ours actually came from our grandparents. They just worked extremely hard and um >> made sure to stash away a lot of money.

A lot of it's in trust and in the stock market so um yeah that's how they passed it over to us. >> Wow. >> How old are you two?

>> Uh we're both 27.

>> Okay, cool. What do you do for a living?

Uh, I work as a technology consultant

for big four.

>> What about her? >> And she's a lobbyist in DC.

>> Okay. First thing I would do is establish a sustainable life on your income without touching the money.

>> 100%. >> Okay. That you don't need this money to live on and don't become dependent upon it. That makes you a trust fund baby.

You're not that. Okay. You're both you're both f gainfully employed. You have great careers. You're obviously professionals. Congratulations. And all of that happened um out of your grandparents inheritance as well. You inherited their character, their work ethic, their smarts, and all of those things, not counting their money. And so, let's honor that by creating a sustainable life where the two of you build wealth independent of this 4.3 and

this 300k. That's thing one. Thing two

is you need to lay out a very clear

detailed itinerary or or schedule of what we're going to do with this money and both of you be in agreement with it. Because where people mess up is when they if you spend it in your head or you invest it in your head, you'll end up doing about $8 million worth and you've only got four million.

So if you lay it out line by line by line by line and there are only three buckets that these lines can land in.

The spending bucket which is okay to

spend some wisely and carefully. The

investing bucket obviously wisely and

carefully and slowly.

And the generosity bucket you mentioned giving to the community. Okay. And so I'm going to allocate portions of this

$4.6 million to those three buckets

and say, "Okay, we are we're going to live on this income, but we are going to use 300,000 or 800,000 of it to buy a house, >> okay% >> or something like that. But we're going to live on our income. All right? And that pay cash for a house at 27 years old. That's a good investment." So or whatever the number is. But it doesn't need to be a $4 million house. That doesn't make sense in your situation.

But we're going to lay down this is how much we're going to put on this. This is how much we're going to put on. This is how much we're going to give and we're going to do an annualized giving of this off of the income that this money creates. And then we're going to look at the investments that are currently there that you said the money's invested in trust in the stock market in some way or I want to learn about that.

I want to know what it's in. And and you need to make clear careful decisions about what the money is sitting in.

We're not moving it to freaking Bitcoin.

Okay, we're going to be boring. Your grandparents were boring and steady and

it worked. And it worked.

>> So follow their lead. And then the last thing, the la the third guideline I'll give you. So guideline one is create sustainable life without the money. Guideline two is lay everything out line by line in those three buckets. generosity, spending and or enjoying money, whatever we want to call that, and investing money line

item. Then the third thing to remember

is um that you don't put money in stuff

you don't understand.

So you don't invest because your friend said to. We're not trying to get rich quick. We're trying to be the tortoise, not the hair. That's what grandpa did.

And a good way to remember any of the stuff, the generosity, the investing or anything is ask yourself, if I do this

with this money, is grandpa in heaven smiling?

Am I honoring his legacy? Am I honoring the man or the woman that they that made this money by doing this? And if you

would go, "My grandpa would kill me if he knew I was doing this." Well, he does know you're doing it. So, be, you know, beware, right? And so, you know, let's just let's just be >> be the guy that is uh honoring to this

because the opposite of that is somebody that goes crazy >> and acts like they won the lotto and you're not that guy. I can already tell by talking to you. That guy doesn't even call the show and ask this question.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, Jake. I mean like yeah, I think totally agree with everything you said and I think the the detailed plan is

super helpful because it does take ideas

and numbers that can kind of get foggy

and there's obvious ways that we we're going to handle this and it's written plain as day right there. And you know

to to another element I'm like this is so fun that you and your wife get to set up a legacy that you guys then get to build upon your lives which then can be passed down to your kids. >> You understand your grandkids are going to get 400 million because of this.

>> Yeah. 100%. >> That's the way this money works. If you don't blow this, it's I mean you're old man Van or your grandpa was old man Vanderbilt and you're like the second or third gen. I mean this is >> this is a huge mathematical opportunity.

Yeah. No, I appreciate all the advice. I think I think both of us are feeling the the responsibility of this all and and

we listen to you guys a lot and >> and I think something that resonates with us a lot is just is going slow with it and learning along the way. Like there's no reason for us >> to we don't need to make a huge purchase right now. We don't need to we don't need to like add that extra pressure. We can be methodical about it.

We can be practical about it. And as life starts to evolve and change and after the wedding, we we can make a decision and and and it's and it's good to have options. It's a positive thing, but but it does add it does add stress. And I think that's why I just wanted to call you guys and just and get that reassurance that we can do this.

means you're wise.

>> That's a wise position to be in. That means you actually understand that that wealth is a responsibility.

Uh it it is not a celebration. It's not a thing that says, "Oh, I I get to do anything I want to do now." That's childish. But when you say this is a responsibility to future generations, this is a responsibility to generosity to the community. This is a responsibility that we do this in a way that we honor grandpa's legacy. This is a respon You feel that weight. Um, it

doesn't have to be stressful, but that just the sense of that that's the the positioning of that in your spirit uh really say that says a lot about you. It says you're very very mature. Congratulations. I'm very proud. Your grandpa's proud of you. I can promise you. I can promise you. We're proud of you. So, >> yeah. And there's something too that it doesn't take the dignity of you all um

away because of setting up your life as

just you guys. almost pretending like you don't have it for for a second as you're like, "Okay, >> here's our life. Here's what we make.

We're going to live within our means." And and there's something in that that

also gives you that that dignity piece that it's not just completely stripped because I think that's the other thing is it can feel so >> you can feel so numb if you get this money and you're just like, "Oh, we're gonna just travel the world and spend it forever and ever. Amen. And that's all we're going to do." There's something about having purpose specifically for you in your own story and same with your wife of having purpose in you guys.

There's dignity in that. That's the right word. You picked the right word. I agree. >> That puts us the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

Heat.

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## 105. Make Sacrifices Today To Achieve Your Financial Goals | October 3, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. She's my co-host today and my daughter. Open Phones at8255225.

Rachel, before we jump straight to the calls, you guys just got back from doing a Ramsay something we've never done, the Ramsay show on the road, and it was you and George and Ken in Chicago, right?

>> That's right. at the den in Chicago, this kind of little club. It set about 300 people and it was so fun. So, we

took live calls from the audience. We played some fun Ramsay show trivia, which they all knew it. They they all won the game because they're all big fans. They listened to every show. I feel like everyone that was there. Uh but it was great. A lot of laughs. Um a lot of good conversation and you know, you get you get reactions from the audience. They're they're clapping.

They're laughing. They're they're uh when someone asks a question, you know, and they know it's it's great. It was it was a really fun time. >> A little groan in the audience. >> Yeah, it was great. It was good.

>> So, and we're taping another one tonight in Orlando with uh Jade and Deloney and

George. >> That's right. Yes. >> Okay, cool.

So, uh these are all sold out. We're doing a little test with these, right? I think we're doing four or five of them here in the fall. And if they all go as good as Chicago, you'll be hearing us all across the country in the spring.

and we'll do a bunch of them for you guys just to come out and do what we're doing right now in your presence and you guys get to be there and ask questions live and uh the only problem is we can't hang up on you to protect you from you.

>> Yeah, we did learn that. >> Yeah, sometimes we do that around here. We protect you from you, but can't do that in a live setting. It's a little harder. I just push the button and the microphone still standing there with that guy. Yeah, that's it. So, yeah, you got to be careful with that. But hey, open phones here at8825-5225.

Katherine's in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Hey, Katherine. How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. How about you and Rachel? >> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Okay, so my question is, how am I, as a

single mom, supposed to

balance my debts and maintain my health

and take care of my daughter at the same time?

Well, it sounds like the income is smaller than the outgo probably, isn't it?

>> Well, it's definitely not great.

>> Yeah. You wouldn't be have you wouldn't be calling me if you were making 300K.

>> No. >> Okay. Definitely not. >> Yeah. So, what do you make?

>> I make between 28,000 and 30,000 a year.

>> And how many children do you have?

I just have the one. She just turned 13 months a couple weeks ago. And I actually called into the show in April

of last year when I was still pregnant.

>> And I did do what um was advised.

>> What was that? >> But it's um to make sure I got a second

job, work as hard as possible until my due date.

>> That help?

It did a little bit, but uh as soon as I

went back into the workforce, all that I had saved up for my maternity leave and my return to work vanished with the first couple weeks of daycare.

>> Yeah, >> I bet. Daycare is outrageous these days.

Um Wow. And so you make 28,000 a year?

>> Yeah, just between 28 and 30.

>> What do you do?

I am a groundskeeper slash student

supervisor for my local university.

>> Okay. All right. And are you getting child support?

>> No child support. Her father is not from

the US. So, and we don't have any extradition with the country that he's from. So, it doesn't help any matters.

>> Wow. Okay. So, he just disappeared.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

All right. Well, >> Catherine, do you have family in the area? Do you have >> Yeah, I live in the same town as both my parents and my dad's parents.

>> Okay. >> Everybody's a little swamped themselves.

>> Sure. Do you have good relationships with them in general, though?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, the the long-term answer to your equation is more income. Well, no kidding, Dave. Okay. But um so what we've got to do is to the long-term answer is to be thinking about what career can Katherine engage in to make $100,000 a year starting 10 years from today or 5 years from today. And what has she got to do to get ready for that career, okay? Because obviously what you're doing, we don't want to project that out 40 years. That's an unfun life.

Okay? >> So number one thing we start thinking out into the distant future and what has to be true? Do you have to take a class, uh, get a certification, get a degree in

something to get to be and do something

that pays more than the something you're doing now? That's kind of basic, but that's really where we got to start.

Then we can roll back from there. I'm sorry.

>> Um, I have been looking into doing some classes with either Penofer or Google's Corsera courses.

>> Okay. In order to do what? not

um to either do something in the medical

field or management.

Okay, both of those are pretty vague. I want you to spend some more time dialing in exactly what you would be doing after

you finish these courses and I needed to pay 50 grand, >> right? >> Or more. Okay? And so I don't care what

you're doing. uh we'll send you Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do and and it's got the assessment in it, and that will help you. We'll do that as our gift. But and so you're already thinking like I'm thinking good. You're that's your long-term goal. Now, your short-term fix is got two components to it. Um one is

the dreaded part-time job and family helping you with the babysitting uh some. And uh two is I want you to be

sure you're plugged into your local church and they know what you're up against.

because uh they will help.

>> I have reached out to the church.

>> Good. They will help. And if >> I'm sorry, >> the only help they can really give in my area is help with like rent and utilities, which would pay some of the monthly uh uh monthly daycare fees, but

it would not be enough to cover it all.

>> Yeah. Well, and it sounds like possibly that a day the daycare arrangement you've made is one you can't afford. You may have to redo that. I don't know what that is, but it's a very difficult thing. thing you're facing. >> Yeah. >> And so this is not an easy hill to climb. >> No. And I wonder too, Katherine, if there's anything from home in the evenings and just

knowing your experience as a groundskeeper and I'm sure there's some logistics there. I mean, I don't know. I'm just making this up, but I'm like, if there's even like a landscape company that you could work for for eight hours a week to help with scheduling, you know, doing like some kind of admin work for them or whatever you can do from home, even just picking up a couple of hours to just create some cash buffer is

going to be big. And and if the church can step in on those utility bills and rent, I mean, that will free up I I don't know how much the rent is, but a couple hundred bucks at the minimal um for a period of time, too. So, it's kind of puzzle piecing some of this together for probably the next 6ish 12 months until you kind of can project out possibly a job change to be making more in your full-time job.

>> What you don't want to do is get paralyzed and say throw up your hands and say, "Oh, this can't be done." Cuz it can be done. What it is going to require is not a single answer. There's not a single silver bullet. It's turning the knobs, all of these knobs at one time.

the extra job, the church, the long-term thinking with money, the daycare arrangements, the family help, what all these knobs can be turned just a little bit. Then all of a sudden, we start to get something that's sustainable until we can get our income up long term. And that's where you got to get to. There's not going to be a singular answer.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Deanna's in Pennsylvania. Hi, Deanna.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question for you, um, my boyfriend and I graduated college last I

graduated last August. He graduated last December. Combined, we had a little bit over $100,000 in student debt. You're

not combined. You're not married. So, how much do you have?

>> I had 60 and he had about 55 60 right

around there. >> Oh, okay. All right.

>> Yes. Yes. And then we I'm set to pay

mine off in December and he's set to pay his off in December. So, we are going to be >> student loan free um within just about a

year. >> Good for you. >> Um so, yeah. So planning long-term wise,

we're looking to probably get engaged in the next year and a half. Um, so one

thing that we are talking about is combining finances after we are married

and we are looking at what to invest in

once we get to that point. The next year is going to be saving up. We're planning on um having around 50,000 to put as a

down payment on a house. um we don't want to want to really buy anything over like 150,000 and then you know double up

our mortgage payments and pay off our house um as quickly as we can. But the

one big question I had with all of this is I own my own marketing firm. So I

cannot invest in a 401k where a company

would match it. So my question to you is

is would it be smart to open something like a Roth IRA to start investing in now so that you know we can be millionaires when we retire?

>> Good for you. Well, it sounds like you're doing a lot of planning. Congratulations. And of course, let me clarify one thing before I go back to that question. The house we're going to buy is after you're married, too, right?

>> Yes. Correct. Yep. we would not be combining finances or >> or buying a house together because it's very very dangerous to buy very dangerous to buy a home with someone you're not married to. Okay. All right.

So, um now so it's pretty simple just at that point you would have an let's say you're married uh you're out of debt. You have an emergency fund. You have and you buy a home with with 50,000 down. You're at

what we would call baby step four at that point. And that means you you start putting 15% of your household income away towards retirement. And then you work your budget and you have a life and any money you can squeeze out of it, you throw at the house and pay the house off early, which was your plan. And that's how you outlined it.

Okay. So then that brings us to how do we do 15% of our income? Yes. I would start with two Roth IAS.

One of you each have one.

>> I was going to say, yeah, absolutely.

Well, after the debt's paid off. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Once you once your debt's clear. >> Yeah. And you can just sit down with a smart vest pro uh which is the people that do in help our uh listeners do

investing and they've been vetted by us and they have the heart of a teacher and they'll teach you. >> You have available to you a couple of things with your marketing firm that you can also do >> as Roth. Uh you can do a uh it's a SE

IRA, a Roth SE IRA, simplified pension

plan it's called. Now, do you have any employees in your marketing firm?

>> No. Nope. Just me. >> Okay, then that's very easy. So, you can put up to 16% of your income with a

formula. Ends up actually being about 13 when the formula is applied, but you can put a bunch of your income aside in a SE IRA, SEP, simplified pension plan, okay?

And simplified employee pension plan.

Now, warning, if you do hire people later and they're with you more than two or five years, whatever you put in that year that they reach that point, you would have to put in the same percentage of their income. So, it works really well for a soloreneur like you, but it doesn't work well for a small business that has five employees.

>> Okay. >> Okay. You also in addition to that can

do a simple IRA which is a 401k

for small businesses.

>> Okay. >> And uh you can set it up. It's $15 to set the account up. They're very inexpensive to set up. To set up a 401k in a big company like ours is tens of thousands of dollars a year in administrative fees. But for a simple is

designed for small businesses. Now again, warning, if you have that and you hire someone, you're required to match

the first 3% of what they put into their

IRA if you have that simple program going. But point being, there's two types of ways you can get money in and you actually can do both of them technically if youclude and do the Roth and do the Roth. So, you'll be able to get to your 15% very easily. Make sure

they're all in going in good growth stock mutual funds and they're all Roth which is taxfree growth. >> Yeah. And then your husband once you guys get married can be investing as well in a 401k if he's at work too. So you guys will be tackling it from multiple different areas which is great.

Um but yeah, I appreciate the plan and maybe you guys fast forward up the engagement. You know, >> I'm a fan. If you know you're going to be engaged in a year and a half, go ahead and shorten it >> like Rachel did. >> Start the start the process.

Get the ball moving. Rachel and Winston came and said, "We want to get married right now." We were young. >> Okay. All right.

>> No, we waited. We >> You waited about 10 months. No, 10 months. 10 whole months.

But I'm like, "Yeah." >> Yeah. There was no >> Yeah. It's like >> Good job, Deanna, though. Um, but honestly, very impressive.

You guys just fresh out of college just in the last year, have a plan to pay off the debt, >> knock it out, >> looking forward to the down payments, thinking about investing, all of it. I mean, you are in a perfect position and time in your life to to start all of this.

>> Bobb's in Texas. Hey, Bobby. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. How are you doing, sir? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, I had a question. Is it okay to pause uh building the emergency fund to

set up a uh revocable trust and a special needs trust? >> No, you don't need to. You can fund

those with the beneficiary of your life insurance and the kid doesn't need a trust unless you die.

>> Uh well, the thing is is uh my uh life

insurance is really what I was worried about. Like if something was to happen to me and my wife, like we have a beneficiary, but >> well, make the beneficiary make a part a portion of the beneficiary go to the special needs trust and then the child is funded for life out of your death.

But you don't need to fund it while you're alive. You need to go build wealth while you're alive and that will take care of the child later and you won't even need life insurance to do it.

>> Okay. So, just finish the uh baby step three and then uh you said don't set up a revocable trust at all. No, I would just set it up only upon death. Special needs trust has no value while you're alive.

It's for taking care of a special needs child if you're not there to do it. And you have to fund it with some money. And if you don't have money, you fund it with life insurance upon your death. But if you stay alive and you fund it with money and you say, "I got a half million dollars in mutual funds 20 years from now." And you say, "That is earmarked for this special needs child to be cared for throughout their life." That goes into a special needs trust upon my death.

>> You see what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> So, you're taking on a bunch of paperwork and paying lawyers crap you don't need to be doing right now. You just need to go get out of debt, make some money, and and name your go ahead and do do the life insurance today where it's named into the special needs trust.

And your will says the special needs trust is formed upon your death. And so

upon your death, >> do you have to do paperwork though in order for that to be? Uh your will does it. Your will your will dictates that the trust is formed upon your death.

>> And so po poof, there's a trust. Now you die, poof, there's a trust. >> But who who who >> Well, the whoever the executive of the estate is, >> they have to go form it then. >> Yeah.

It's it Yeah. But it's not it's not hard. I mean, it's like a it's two pieces of paper. Okay.

And you just And but you got to put money in the thing for the kid to be okay, which is your real motivation, Bobby, which makes you a great dad. Okay.

Uh between me and my wife, we're looking at like 1.7.

>> Good. Good. Great. >> And so what I would do is sit down, if you're working with a Smart Investor Pro on your investing, I'd sit down and say, "How much would I need to put in a in an account, you know, invested in mutual funds to take care of this child with $50,000 a year, take care of this child?" Probably.

So half million. So you could say of the 1.7, 500,000 goes into the special needs trust on the beneficiary statement. So, you redo your beneficiary clause on your life insurance immediately and you do your will immediately to say special needs trust is formed uh the Bobby special needs trust and the Bobby special needs trust is funded with 500,000 from the beneficiary of this life insurance policy upon my death and then the child is taken care of which is your goal because you're a good dad but you don't have to do all that crap right now. It could all be formed and done upon your death.

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Rachel is in North Dakota. Hi, Rachel.

How are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you guys doing today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so we just started the baby steps.

We're on step number two and this is literally our second month. Um, in our first month, we ended the month with a surplus of almost $3,000. So,

>> um, but my question is, um, I have a variable income and my husband does not.

And we have, um, just over 9,000 in our

savings. And so I was wondering, we have four children, so I wasn't sure if we

should just keep that and then um use

whatever extra money we're finding every month to pay down the debt or if we should use the savings that we have already.

>> Well, 90% of the time we're going to tell you to use the savings down to $1,000. Um, how variable is your income?

>> Um, it's pretty extreme. I'm a wedding

photographer, so in the summer months I can make, you know, 12 13,000 a month and then come December almost nothing.

So I also own a studio that brings in

some small income as well. Um, we rent out to other photographers. So I can make anywhere from 1 to 3,000 a month off of that.

>> And that and that's 12 months a year,

>> correct? >> Okay. So, I mean, so your bottom is 1 to

3,000, your worst month, >> correct? >> And what's your husband make?

>> My husband makes um each paycheck is

4,700.

So, about n just over 9,000 a month.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. Very good. Very good.

>> And how much of the um doing well when you guys do your monthly budget, Rachel, what how much does it take to run your household, would you say?

Um, so my fixed expenses and with our

like additional variable expenses like pets and miscellaneous home stuff is just about 9,000. So it just clears his checks. >> Okay. So if you make zero, you guys run the house. Okay. You just don't have extra.

>> Correct. >> Then why would you need savings to pad that?

>> Um, >> just cuz you're a nervous mom.

>> Yeah. My kids are small and you know we get broken bones and fingers all the time. So it just you just never know.

>> Mhm. And but you have like health insurance.

>> We do. Yeah. Through my husband.

>> Yeah. And if you go to the emergency room and they send you a bill the next month, you have some wedding income to pay a bill.

>> Correct. And he has an HSA account, too, with just under a thousand in that.

>> Yeah. >> That's good. >> So, yeah. I I I think you are um it's

wise to be a good mom and say I got four

kids and it worries me. It adds to my fear for us to be down to a thousand. I don't have any problem with the wisdom of that. But the actual math >> is telling us that that you're probably don't have a problem >> because then how much debt do you guys have left, Rachel? Oh yeah, >> we we have um 40,000 in consumer debt

and then on top of that just our home which >> but in baby step two is only plan we're going to have $1,000 in the account >> and so >> Yeah, I was going to say I mean with >> So you're going to be done in like eight or 10 months. >> Yeah, exactly right.

>> Yeah. Yep. And um my husband actually gets a a really big bonus in March every year. It's usually 18 or 19,000. So

perfect. >> Yeah. So, um, according to your plan, we should be done, um, like April or May, the latest. >> No, but No, you'll be done in March because you're taking $8,000 according to our plan of your nine and putting it on your debt today.

>> Okay.

>> Oh, God. Oh, God.

>> Sped it up a few months.

>> I heard her take a breath. I'm going into the I'm just going into like my slow season. So, >> understand you guys can eat on your husband's income. You may not reduce debt. And if you had a horrible month, >> the worst thing that could happen is is that a child breaks a bone, the HSA is used and the $9,000 supports your family and you brought in zero and you're still okay. You didn't even touch the $1,000 emergency small starter emergency fund.

That's your worstc case scenario. So, and you're you're just not that's all that's not going to happen. >> And Rachel, yeah, that and it's so fast.

Like, if you guys had 140 of consumer debt, um I think you know, and it's and it's a longer period. There's going to be more time for something to happen, a bigger emergency, but this is such a short period of time. You know what I mean? I almost would just knock it out because you just think about all the debt, all the payments, all the interest, everything that's happening.

And if you can start chopping off a bunch of that stuff really quickly, which is what the debt snowball does. And and if you're just a little bit scared, it motivates you to do it even faster. >> Oh yeah. I my last month I brought in almost 8,000 last month.

So it's like >> and you're fire you're fired up. You're fired up and and if you're a little bit and if you add that fired up just a little bit scared, it'll push you.

>> And uh and I don't think you're in danger. I would not tell you to be put your children in danger. Okay? I love your kids. I don't want that to happen to them. And I'm not asking a mom to be irresponsible. Yeah. And >> And we're not asking to live on a thousand dollar emergency fund for 10 years either. We're asking for five or 10 months. >> And the truth is from a percentage standpoint, the amount of emergencies that come up that you can't pause the

debt snowball and wait two or three months to be able to save up to pay off that emergency, then go back to the debt snowball. That happens sometimes, but people have the ability to pause it if something happens, but almost never. But most of the little things that come up that people use their starter emergency fund for is smaller than $1,000. But

yeah, I mean it's a it's definitely like takes the breath out of you for a little bit, but you can do it. You guys can do it. It's >> a good thing. Yeah, Rachel, you've I will tell you this. You've done a great job of analyzing your situation. You know your numbers.

>> You're you have a plan. You're running it in your head. and the the the detail

of the question you asked indicates how

how leaning into this you are. So I really think you'll be done by March.

Just my experience is the people that >> the people that are paying attention and focused and they're going on every little thing. They're doing every little we're binge watching meaning I'm gathering this information. I'm going to do this and we're going to put you in the brand new every dollar which is going to hold your hand and make sure you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. It's going to give you step by step through the baby steps while you're doing the budget.

It's incredible the what we've done with this financial applicant app. It's it's off the chain. So hang on and we're going to give that to you as a gift. Um you guys make plenty of money.

You're going to be just fine and you're going to be so stinking wealthy at the end of this story. It's unbelievable. This is so fun. >> Great job, Rachel.

>> Good for you. David is in Minnesota. Hi, David.

>> Oh, I'm doing fabulous. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I got an interesting one for you.

Um, after a couple years after I lost my job and living with in my friend's house while I get on my feet, I just got back into truck driving. Well, now he's going to sell the house and um I I came up

with three plans on what I'm going to do next. Either I buy a house and I don't really have any money for a down payment. I just finished paying off my last credit card today. Or I rent a place but I I'd rather prefer to own. Or the third option, and this is something I'm leaning towards, is living out of my semitr. Uh, and >> how old are you? >> It's a com I just turned 30.

>> And I take it you're single, >> correct? >> And how long would you do that?

>> Um, since I'm not going to have a credit history starting today, since I don't have any other debt or credit cards or anything else, I don't know how much of a down payment I'm going to need for a house. That way, the bank doesn't care what my credit looks like. So the same amount probably at least one or two.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> So if so you if you drove truck and lived in the truck for two years and stack cash as a single guy and made that your home, I think that's amazing. Yes, I would do that.

>> Okay. Cuz a friend or two of my or I should say my sister thinks that it's a little crazy to live out of my semi-truck. So >> Well, your sister's married and has two kids.

>> How did you know?

Wow.

No wonder why you're so good at this.

>> That was a guess. But yeah, that's funny. But I mean, she's got she has a different life than you have. If you told me you were married two kids, I wouldn't tell you to do this. >> How often are you on the road road, David? >> 24/7. He's driving over. >> I know. But how how often though?

>> Every day. >> So, uh, my almost. Uh, so my schedule is

I can be home every weekend, but every now and then I will drive through a weekend just to make some extra money.

>> Yeah, you're doing you're doing long you're doing long haul runs. Yeah. And you got you got a sleeper cab, right?

>> You got a sleeper cab, >> correct? >> Yeah. Have at it, man. Go see America.

>> Maybe for the year. Maybe for the year.

You say two. >> A year. Maybe two. But would I do this for two decades? No.

>> No, I wouldn't do it for two decades.

You need to come, you know, build a life at some point. But but for a couple years and get get some money stacked up and get some distance between you and whatever's been chasing you. Yeah, do it, man. Do it.

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We'll help you out. Carly is in Arkansas. Well, hi Carly. How are you?

>> Hi guys. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thank you guys for taking my call. Um I'll let you know I'm pretty nervous. I really look up to you guys and appreciate what y'all do. So >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

>> So for some context, I'll be 20 this month and I'm getting married in January. Congratulations. My >> Thank you. Um so my soon husband and I

are trying to plan our future and just make sure that we follow the Ramsay way.

kind of hopped on the bandwagon that my mom has put me on last couple months.

Um, my biggest question is that I have

an $85,000 inheritance in a brokerage account that I haven't touched since I've gotten it, but I when we think

about putting a down payment on a house, that kind of I just don't want to. I'd rather pay cash. So, I'm thinking, you know, we put that brokerage account down on the house, but we want to save for the next four to five years um to add to that that house fund. And

I'm just not sure what kind of account to put that in. Do I put it on top of the brokerage or an HYSA?

>> Are you wanting to use the 85, Carly, for a down payment and then pay the house off quickly, or you're wanting to save that 85 plus a lot over the next

couple years to pay cash for a house?

the 85 plus the rest to um pay cash.

>> Okay. So you guys won't buy a house for a few years and where do you keep saving that money till you buy is what you're asking. >> So who who's has the brokerage account?

>> Um well I do but we will.

>> No I mean what is it with a company that you >> that is doing all of your investing or you just parked it there because your grandmother had it there or what?

>> It's with my finance guy. Um so with the

company I believe. >> Okay. All right. So, if you were with one of our smart investor pros or with your financial adviser, if it's someone you trust, it should be in a good growth stock mutual fund.

>> And uh that's what it says.

>> Yeah. And you should add to that.

>> Not a not a not a a high yield savings account pays a fourth of what the mutual funds are producing these days.

>> So, no, you want to get you want to get a full ride on >> because it's going to be a couple years. Carly, if you guys were going to put a down payment or something and you were saving for, you know, 6 months, you know, you that would be fine to just to do like a high yield savings. If you were starting over, starting new, but something longterm like that, then yes.

Yeah. The investment, >> you got a three to five year window, you got plenty of time to ride the market up and down and watch what it's doing and do, you know, be and be perfectly safe doing that. So yeah, I I would sit down with that guy and make sure that you feel good, both of you and your fiance, soon to be husband, feel good about the account that it's in. What's the brokerage account invested in?

And I want to understand that. And once I understand that, say, "Okay, the purpose of this is I'm thinking about pulling this money out in 3 to 5 years, and I'm going to be adding some to it for a down payment. Is this okay? Is this safe?" And they're going to talk you through it and walk you through it, and then you'll, you know, then you make the decision if you want to leave it exactly there or not.

But I think you probably do. It sounds sounds pretty good. And I really like that you're showing a lot of maturity because a lot of 20 year olds that get married, they want to buy a house 5 minutes later.

We're talking about buying, you know, completely debtree. That's pretty incredible to think about. How about that for a cool goal if you're 20? Y >> that's a pretty cool goal. >> But I mean, she and she's starting with 85, which will be 100 soon. You know what I mean? Like it'll it'll start snowballing for sure with the interest and then adding to it. So, well done, Carly. >> Ashley's in Washington. Hi, Ashley.

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. How are you guys?

>> Great. How are you?

>> I'm so good. Thank you so much for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, um, so my husband is looking to switch jobs. I know he's feeling a lot

of pressure and stress about this because it would be a pay cut for our family and in the past I've proven that I'm not able to stick to our proposed budget. My husband's current job is really stressful and I would love for him to be back in a role where he loves the work he's doing and with a company that's morally in line with who he is as a person. I want to be able to sit down with him tonight and give him the reassurance that he can make this switch and it will be better for our family, that I'm on the same team as him when it comes to budgeting and our future.

And I'm just really looking for some guidance on this. Um, >> okay.

>> The only way my husband can do something he loves with people that have a value system that's aligned is if he makes less money. Why the flip?

Why don't he go make more money with people that I like doing something I love? >> Well, I mean, this job came up. This job

>> I know. And it sucks.

>> Yeah. >> It's not a dream job. It's a It's a nightmare job. I'm going to take a pay cut because I'm stressed instead of going and looking for a pay increase in a better setting.

>> Okay, that's fair. That's fair. So, just

a little bit of background.

We're completely debtree. We have our house paid for. Um, our current net

worth is about 1.7 million.

His gross annual income right now is

160,000.

He would it would be 121,000. But here's

the deal. We would get to see him more.

So right now with the job that he's in, >> why not take a job making 180 where you get to see him more?

I Well, just Okay. So, with his job, he's a paramedic.

>> Okay. Paramedic. Okay.

>> Yep. He's a paramedic and right now he works for a com a flight company and he's a manager. Um, so he's in

administration. He really wants to go back to doing medicine and I really want to be able to support him in that.

>> I do too. But I don't this natural human

tendency to assume that in order to go do the thing I love doing it has to mean I get paid less is not it's a it's

faulty logic. I I do what I love doing.

I get paid more every day.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> So I mean you know is there a different way to skin this cat? Yes there is. And

so let's take that off the table. I really want to challenge you all on this thought train because it's um you know I

want to support my husband and he takes a 60% pay cut so he's happy bull no I I

I'm not going to support that now I've set that aside now let's answer your question though hun about uh uh what the the you want to be able to talk about do sticking to a budget right >> yes >> how can she do that right >> well what's what's his take on all of this Ashley I want to know from like the job perspective the budget all of it what's his level of involvement and conversation and effort and everything.

>> Yeah. So, he is the one that found you.

Like, he found Dave Ramsey a few well, probably

10 or 15 years ago. And when Josh and I

got married, he was like, I really want to do this. Um, so from the start, we've

been working our tail off to save, um,

to pay off our house, to get rid of all of our debt, and to be working.

>> We've done a great job. I mean, I was going to say $1.7 million.

>> So, the budget, Ashley, at this point, because you guys are in baby step seven, and we still say to budget regardless of your baby step, but you guys, you're going to have a little bit more flexibility um, to move within the budget versus someone who's trying to find $1,000 and they're cutting stuff and they're going, right? So, you're going to it's going to be a little bit of um it will be some discipline to make sure that you guys are tracking transactions that you know where your money's going, but even the detail of the budget can kind of expand a little bit.

Does that make sense? You don't have to be as rigid.

>> Um so, what I I mean, so yeah, Winston and I like we have a category for home where like all of our bills for the house go, subscriptions. Um anything we buy for the home, we have a line item for that like throughout, you know, if it's random stuff that we need for the house. Uh food's a big category.

lifestyle is a big category. So, we have big categories in our every dollar budget. And then within those, you guys can go as specific or as broad as you want. But the the point is is that within every dollar, especially when it's connected to your bank, you're able to track those transactions and just stay on top of, hey, here's the amount of money we said we'd spend in these big categories, and we're going to stay within those limits.

And so, it just takes some time and discipline to get that as a new habit, but totally possible, Ashley.

Heat. [Music]

Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Nicole is in Mississippi. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I'm having a bit of a dilemma.

Excuse me. I'm a little nervous. >> It's okay. Um my fiance and I we get

married next week on Friday.

>> Oh, congratulations.

>> We are. >> Yes, very soon. Um we are excited about that. But I am still in the mindset of my debt, his debt sort of thing. Um my

my dilemma is um I'm having a dilemma

with using my $800. I'm on baby step one

to throw at my credit card that I am

behind on. And my minimum is half of my

take-home pay. So it's it's half of what

I make in a month. That's what my minimum is. And that is the only I'm sorry. What is your minimum? It's >> about 2734.

What do you owe on this credit card?

>> 13,000.

>> And you have a $2,700 payment on $13,000?

>> Yes. I fell behind um for a few months

and then um

it's just interest added on and it's

becoming unbearable and I don't want >> So that's not the normal minimum payment. It's all the back payments.

>> Yes. Mhm. It's normally around $300 or $400. >> Oh, that sounds more like it. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right. So, um >> And you bring home what? 5,000 6,000 a

month? >> About 5,000? Yeah.

>> Yes. >> And and you're you're getting married and he has how much debt?

>> Um he has about 40.

>> Mhm. And you only have 13 or you have a car and everything else or what? Um, so

together we have about $79,000

worth of debt.

>> Okay. Which means you have another 20 something other than this 13.

>> Yes. >> On what?

>> Um, it's personal loans. Um, I owe a

family member. It's a various of other

things. >> Okay. And so your household income is about 80, right? Your income. And what's his?

Um, so my income is about, like I said,

that's 5,000. Then his is about the same a month as well. >> Your take-home pay? Yeah. Okay.

>> Yes. Mhm. >> All right. So, you're that's $120,000 take-home pay. And so, you're probably making 150 or so. Okay. All right. Um,

and we need to pay off 80 overall. So,

>> yes. >> Really? Um, you you don't really have a

minimum payment of $2,700. You have a single a single payment of $2,700 to get

current.

>> Okay. >> Right. Cuz the next month it won't be $2,700. It'd be 300.

>> Well, if I if I don't pay on it, if I don't get caught up on it. >> No. If you pay 2,700, the next month your payment would be 300.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> That's what I'm saying. Okay. So, um, what I would do is just call a credit card company and ask them to roll that in and reset your payment.

Well, I called them. Um, I don't have a problem saying their names. Capital One.

I called them and they said that there's nothing that they can do.

>> Okay. Then there's nothing I can do.

You're not going to get paid.

>> How's that? You get nothing, honey. If you don't work with me because I got no money. I can't pay you $2,700.

>> I can pay you I can pay you $300. If you want to reset the payment, that's fine.

Probably I need to talk to your supervisor because apparently your two brain cells aren't rubbing together.

This is how you talk to Capital One.

What's in your wallet?

Stupid. You know, I mean, come on. Of

course, they can roll that in. They do it every day, all day long. But you got

some junior birdman on the phone up there in a cubicle, right? And so you

got you got to nail them. That's what you have to do. And then and then then catch them up anyway because you got to get the whole stupid thing paid off. And remember how they treated you the next time you get ready to whip out that card or do any business with this company.

>> Oh no, I'm done. I >> cut the stupid thing up >> and let them know that we're done. Uh we're breaking up here. You aren't you aren't all you were cut out to be.

>> I don't care which uh particular movie

star says gives me financial advice on your stupid commercials. Oh god. So it

would it would hurt me to close it and

pay them later. >> Doesn't matter.

>> Doesn't matter whe you close or not, you still got exactly the same problem.

>> So >> yes, that's true. >> Yeah. So you know, here's what you can I just call and mess with them and just, you know, be be um start out.

>> You're nice, Nicole. You got to kind of hype up your you know, hype up yourself.

>> Start out pleasant and then end up nasty before you get off. Yeah. get ready to dial the nasty up pretty quick as you're on the phone if their brains aren't working because sometimes apparently they aren't. And so, you know, now then the trick is it doesn't matter because in the end of just a few months, you're going to have a zero balance on this because you're going to get paid off cuz you make $120,000 after you get married and y'all need to clean this $80,000 up fast.

And one of the first orders of business is this credit card cuz it's probably one of the smallest debts you all have, right? >> Yes. So, we're going to list that in the debt snowball, smallest to largest, and I'm going to pound their face in, and it's going to sound like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month, regardless of what their minimum payment is.

Okay? And that I'm I'm teaching you to be a little bit angry about this because that's a good thing. That'll that'll push you through this and cause you to just pound their face in with the math as you're doing your budget. You're going, "Take that, Capital One. Take that Capital One. Take that Capital One.

30 years ago, 35 years ago, American Express called Sharon and asked her why she would stay with a man that wouldn't pay his bills.

And I'm still pissed.

35 years later, I'm still pissed. I

would still find that guy if I could find him, you know, cuz she called me crying at work like I thinking the same thing, right? And so, oh my god, these guys, they're just they're just it's a ridiculous company. >> And Nicole, for you and your husband, I mean, make this a year, the first year of marriage and you guys are working extra at night. Like, I mean, you're just you're high-fiving in the middle of the night because you don't see each other.

I mean, like, make it really be done with it. Like, get really, really aggressive with this. And then it's done forever. And then for the rest of your marriage, you guys have no debt.

You have your whole income, >> no stress.

And so the more intense you guys can be in this first year and if you guys want kids later even before the kids like this is this is the time to do it.

>> Yeah. So if you don't pay them 2700 and you pay them 2100 because they're first thing on your debt snowball and that's all you squeeze out of the first month's budget >> or a thousand whatever >> you pay them a whatever you pay them I don't care then the next month you pay them a bunch more and the next month you pay them a bunch more. I don't really care what they think. It's irrelevant.

Just just pound. >> What sucks is the is the interest, right? You get 26% on this amount, you know. But it's on the whole thing anyway. It's on the whole It's on the whole 13,000. That's true. Period. It doesn't matter. The interest is the interest until you get it paid off with that credit card. >> Yeah. Get Get it knocked out. What's in your wallet? Oh god. Money now cuz I don't have you people in my life.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Oh man. I tell you what, I spent the first part of my career doing a dumb

thing. I would bring in co people we were coaching and I would call and negotiate with the credit card companies and set payment plans for the people we were coaching and it taught me to hate

credit card companies because they're so moronic and I'm still it still rings in

my brain and just that I I cuz I just know the conversation she had it just pisses me off Deal.

[Music]

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Jamie's in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey Jamie, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So, I have been religiously

listening to you and your team every

single morning on my drive to work, which is about an hour and 15 minutes.

And I have had gazelle intensity

by myself. So, I've tried introducing it

like to my husband and the problem is is

that we've sat down and we have looked

at a budget. I have the Every Dollar. Um

I am still working on assigning Every Dollar. Um but I've got the app for him.

Um where he's doing it. We have about $95,000 in consumer debt together. Um we're a blended family. He has three. I have three.

And um the problem I'm having is that I

am wanting so badly to get out of debt.

Um but I am the primary like bread

winner because he >> he's in a roofing business and well we've had some issues with getting Ruth um approved and uh it's just been really

slow. So there's a lot of inconsistency like with his with his paychecks coming in and it's causing a lot of um

resentment like on my part and probably toward him to where like we went to counseling and we had to have an agreement to where I could only talk about the budget for an hour on Tuesdays and an hour on Friday. So that's kind of where we are. Um, and I just need to know what to do to move forward so one

we can be a team together and how am I

supposed to do this in >> Jamie? Can I ask is the resentment from you coming from that he's not fully on board with the plan and you guys together are like, hey, regardless of who's bringing the income, this is what we're doing. We're paying off debt as fast as possible. Is that the resentment or is it that his he can't seem to keep an income because the work is so wacky

and you don't really know what's going on there. >> Yes. Yes, that's that's what it is. Like

because he still has he's got a child that's in in college and then the other one has already graduated, but

>> I'm like that's irrelevant to his income.

>> Well, it is when he can't afford to pay all of the bills that he came in with.

Then now I'm responsible for for those.

And so I >> mean you mean he's you mean he's paying his kids college tuition and not paying his own bills?

>> Oh, he Well, right. I paid everything

last month. I paid he's got about $4,000

that go out to his kids and their college and car payments and insurance and child support and all of that and isn't able to contribute to our house.

So, in the month of September, we have no money coming from >> married.

>> Um, well, actually, we will be married

one year on November the 4th. And I

wanted to go on our anniversary trip to

the um, money and marriage in Nashville.

And I was like, I know that we're in debt. I was like, but I feel like this is an investment like in our marriage because we need it. And he disagrees

with me. I was like, well, I could I can pay for that, but he said he'd rather go on a cruise. But I'm not doing that. >> I think you need a new marriage counselor >> because the marriage counselor said that you can only talk about a budget 2 hours a week and a budget isn't even the problem.

>> Yes, I I agree. So that that was you getting smacked into the corner by a marriage counselor as being unreasonable trying to ask him to be reasonable with his contribution to the household.

That's not a budgeting problem. That's a values and income >> priority problem. >> That's a priorities problem. I'm choosing uh to put $4,000 in a college

student's car payment >> instead of taking care of my new wife.

>> Um that's a problem. That's not a budget. That's not you talking about Ramsay or you talking about a budget issue. That that's a that's a problem of

respect. And who's you know you guys he

didn't ask you about that. He just declared you get nothing and you have to feed me this month.

That's not a budget problem. And so I think your marriage counselor is a weenie.

I think you need to get a good strong marriage counselor that will sit down and talk to both of you clearly about your priorities and your communication over those priorities. And you guys did a lousy job of setting this up prior to marriage cuz this is a barrel of fish hooks you both walked into and you did no planning about it.

>> That is correct. >> Yeah. And that's and so you're reaping that right now and it's just harsh. I'm so sorry. But yeah, I I I'm you can have

two free tickets to come to Marriage and Money. We'll give it to you. >> We'll give them to you, but I don't also don't want you to think that that's the answer to your problem.

>> You need more than a marriage and money weekend at Ramsey will give you.

>> You need in-depth crisis marriage counseling. You have not even been married a year, and this thing is unraveling rapidly and before my eyes as you talk about it. It's really scaring me for you guys.

I I feel that also >> he's so he's so checked out in what his new wife's needs are >> that he's not even dealing with it >> and that it's again Jamie you're not being unreasonable right I'm like do you know what I'm saying like like you're not crazy like the fact that that you're like this feels off this doesn't feel right I don't feel supported I feel like I can't believe he's paying all of this money that he's barely making all the way over there like where he can't even contribute to our own household like I mean it'd be different if you guys were making a crazy amount of money and you were debtree and you guys both chose to still support the kids while they were in college, right?

but it's so splintered right now.

>> Yeah. >> And then you're kind of getting the the short end of the stick.

>> I agree. >> So, what is it? What What kind of a business is he in?

>> Um, he's in the roofing business. Um,

>> he doesn't make he doesn't make money in roofing. Why?

um he he doesn't want to go and knock doors anymore. He's he's 54. Um and he

has some people that work underneath him. He basically works off of referrals and um because he's been doing it for so

long, >> but he's not got enough. He is correct.

Um I have told him he needs to find something else. So, we just had a conversation yesterday and I was like,

"I don't care. I don't care what you do.

Um, either if you're not going to be working. Um, then I need you to help more around the house. I need you to pick up kids. I need you to drop kids off. I mean, I really that's not really an option.

>> That's just I mean, you you really didn't mean that.

>> I think she's just I think she's craving something.

>> Well, that's not work. >> Some kind of initial. I want him to go make some money. >> Well, I do and I I do too.

>> Yeah, I think that's I think that's what he needs to do and take care of his obligations which includes his kids and his wife and you take care of your obligation which includes him and you know your all's life going forward, your kids. And so, yeah, um you got you guys

really need to get back to another marriage counselor and uh get in touch with your church and ask them who a good strong marriage counselor that can guide you guys through this. and um uh you're

going to have to have a reset, a solid reset on the expectations of this going forward and then live into those. And 2

hours of budgeting a week doesn't fix this. And again, I'll give you two tickets. I don't even think you'll come, but um >> yeah, Jenna will pick up. We'll give them We'll give you guys some. >> Yeah. Just We'll call you. We'll put them at We'll call >> and uh we'll make arrangements right now on the phone. You hang on. I'll make arrangements. >> We can email them to you or something. >> Yeah.

[Music]

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[Music]

Samantha's in San Diego. Hi Samantha.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well this morning. How are you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> So forgive me. I'm a little bit nervous and I feel all over the place, but I am

trying to make some future decisions without making bad decisions for a future wedding. And um we had a lot of

big changes this year. I got married and I bought a house. So, I would love some Dave wisdom. >> Okay. A future wedding, but you got

married. >> I got lost.

>> Yeah. I was hoping you'd catch that. So, my husband and I, we've been together for 5 years. Um, we lived with some family on property for a little while to save for a house. We found a house a little bit sooner than expected. So, we

decided that the best thing to do would be to get married, get this house, and we would save for an official wedding later on. I had heard you say that would be a good decision to someone on the show at one point. So, >> okay. >> It felt right for us in that. better than it's better than some of the other stuff you could have done in that situation. So, I'm I'm with you. Yeah.

Good. >> Ah, thank you. I got Dave's good old Matt. So, >> check. Survive that one. Okay.

>> We are 25 debtree. We bought our house

and we are having this wedding on a cruise ship in March with family and we have about $3500 that we need to just save and pay off for that. >> Cool. Well, you could do that by March.

>> Yes, we can. Um, we also are I just got

the Every Dollar app and I'm looking at like margin and it's stressing me out like crazy. My husband is like a turtle in a hurricane and it's like we got this. >> And

well, at least you married a stable guy.

>> And I'm like, is this guy real? Because he sounds like I Dave Ramsey. So, He's

never read your book. >> Are you Are you the hurricane?

>> Oh my gosh, he is going to love that.

>> That's so funny. I never heard a turtle in a hurricane. I've heard a turtle on a fence post, but I never heard a turtle in a hurricane. That is a great one. I will use that. >> All right. So, what is what is your household income?

>> So, we bring in 8,000 a month. Okay.

>> Is what? And he's not worried because he thinks you can have 3500 out of 8,000 between now and March.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And why are you worried?

>> I have been a hurricane prior to meeting

him. And this whole talking about money and having an app where we see every time we go to the store and Starbucks

has been new and it's revealing >> budgeting. It is. And it's so scary.

>> Yeah. >> And no, it's just uncomfortable and awkward. It's not really scary. It's very certain.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's revealing is what it ouches.

It touches places I didn't want people to see. Yeah. Oh, but Ouch. Yeah. I got you. I'm with you. That makes sense. >> We became We became I became I never I had debt prior to the relationship. He never did. So, I worked really really hard and he helped me and so did you guys. Oh my gosh. So, we're here now and

I want to make sure I don't put myself back in that boat. I know I won't.

>> Good. >> But >> well, how about we How about we won't?

>> Yes. I know we won't.

>> Yeah. You and the turtle work together.

>> Big with a big picture. I'm like the

worry wart on the turtle. Like how do we save? How do we invest? How do we family? How do we do all that?

>> Well, number one, just like you did before, how do you eat an elephant a bite at a time? Okay. Okay. So, you lay out a game plan and you look at every dollar together and you say, "If we only spend X and Y on those two things, we

will have the money to go on the cruise

and do the wedding. If we blow the budget, we will not have the money to go on the cruise and do the wedding. So, let's lay out the plan and stick to the plan so that our best life ends us on a cruise in March doing a wedding."

And then all of a sudden, everything calms way down. But what ends up coming is a lot of nos because you have to look at yourself and go, "No, I can't do that because I'm going on a cruise in March to do a wedding." Oh, no. We can't go over there because we're going on a cruise in March and doing a wedding. Oh, we're not able to join you tonight. I'm sorry. Cuz we're going on a cruise in March to do a wedding. And all of a sudden, all those nos start popping up.

And that's what you're not used to. And that's okay. That's a new thing. It's a new thing for you. It's okay. Samantha, when you guys did the every dollar budget for the household, how much do you guys spend on essentials? Do you know off the top of your head? How much it would cost to keep everything running like food, electricity, you know, mortgage, all of it? >> 5,000.

>> Yeah. And that's with like because we have animals and >> Yeah. Okay. So, like 3,000 a month margin. >> Yeah. You could do that in like two months, Samantha.

>> So, I fear that maybe the wedding wasn't the like fear. It's after that and the

next big goal. Um, he's confident that

there's going to be an add-on to our house and >> save up and pay for it. Just like you're doing the work. >> Yeah. And he wants to do some real estate at some point and I just I don't

have any of that wisdom. So, >> it's okay. Just just let's let's just do one thing at a time. Let's let's build a little bit of confidence by doing the actual saving and the wedding. and we've combined our finances and we're working together and we have a plan that we are

going to stick to to hit our goals.

These are new words. Used to be me, me now and I. >> Yeah. >> And now it's we and us.

>> And um and you know, and then first we'll get the uh first we'll get the

cruise wedding out of the way and then we'll start talking about okay, how much is the add-on and what's that going to cost and then let's build some wealth because someday we'd like to do some of it. >> Yeah. It's just it just beuns. It's just you you just chip away at it one little thing at a time.

One little thing at a time and and you keep laying out the numbers and the numbers will guide you right through it. >> It's too Samantha remember like none of this is urgent. I mean the wedding to a degree in six months, right? So we want to save for that but >> the house renovations, the invest all of that like you're okay.

You guys are good, right? So nothing has to happen tomorrow. >> So give yourself some of that like kind of grace and patience in it because I'm an urgent person too, Samantha. I'm I'm wired more like you.

So, I totally get it.

>> Yes. No, I get it. I really do. Um and the good thing about our turtles, cuz Winston I feel like Winston's a turtle, too, is that they they love Excel and spreadsheets and stuff and they'll map out every year of like, "Hey, here's how much we could save per month to get this goal of this rental house or whatever the thing is." >> And you really lean in on their strengths and then you're the fun >> hurdle.

Yeah. >> Yeah. You totally have to do t-shirts for the cruise. the hurricane and the turtle t-shirts.

Maybe maybe you know and with a little bride bouquet and the whole bit on the Oh, this is >> I hope y'all don't get a hurricane on that thing. >> No, I totally I said t-shirts. The hurricane the hurricane saying it out loud though. You don't want a hurricane on that.

And now I present you hurricane and tortoise. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah, this is so great.

>> It's good. Samantha, >> you're fun, Samantha. You're fun. Thank you. And you're going to do great.

you're going to do better than your feelings are telling you because you've never done this successfully long enough to build confidence yet.

>> And uh Rachel is on the other side of that in that she's got a decade plus of

successfully working with Winston. And she's right. Winston is more of the tortoise uh than the hair. And uh he's

very steady, very predictable, doesn't do drama. And um and so they've they've had a decade of working together. And that has now you've got great confidence in that. >> Yeah. Maybe the first day you didn't.

>> Yeah. And sure. And the and the beauty too of all of this that you guys will learn in marriage, but it reflects in your money is you do you get to be yourself. You still get to be fun Samantha.

You get to lean and have the blessing of having a spouse who is different than you and has strengths that you don't have. And then you're going to be a gift to him because you're going to have strengths that he doesn't have. So it really is this ying and yang. And I think that's the that's the beautiful part of it is that when we say working together as one, I think some people freak out because they think, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to lose who I am and all this stuff." And no, you be who you are.

And the beautiful thing is your values are aligned. You guys know where you want to go in general together and how you get there may look a little bit different, right? But but those are the conversations you get to have as a couple.

>> Turns out turtles have fun, too.

>> They do have fun.

We help them have fun though. We create a little chaos. >> Yeah. >> To create the fun.

>> I'll never forget's like Rachel's job is she's the fun girl. That's Rachel's job.

>> And our premarital counselor, I'll never forget looked at him and was like, "Wow, she's pretty urgent." And I was like, I I am I am an urgent person. So, I get it, Samantha. I totally get it.

>> Y'all are going to do great. You're going to do great. >> Hurricane and the Turtle. This is great.

It's a great radio.

[Music]

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[Music]

Dale in Missouri. Hey Dale, what's up in your world? >> Oh, not much. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> So, you know, the holidays are right around the corner and my wife and her family have quite a few traditions for

Christmas time and they are starting to

get rather expensive. Uh, for example,

we uh each get a book from Santa, like a

children's Christmas book from Santa, and there's about 12 of us. And we have

stockings, which averages about $1,000 to $1,200 total. And then we have gifts

for everyone. There's about again 12 of us for that. So my question is >> I'm sorry 12 children's books for 12

adults.

>> Adults. Yes. And >> her family. Is this her brothers and sisters? >> So it's her sister, her father, and um

her sister's children.

And now one of her children, her sister's children has their own child.

So now there's a baby.

>> Okay. So this isn't your all's children or your grandchildren?

>> No. >> Okay. >> This is And so my my wife was really big

on her grandparents.

She has fond memories of Christmas at her grandparents house. They did the same traditions.

Um she just wants to continue

>> those traditions.

>> How long have y'all been married?

>> Um well it'll be 15 years. So you've done this for 15 years.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And are you buying books? Is everyone buying 12 books or is it one book per person?

>> So it's one book per person. Um but it's

usually my wife and I

and her sister that are kind of responsible for all the books.

>> Well, I mean it's it's 12 children's books. It's not a lot of money. I don't What's the big deal? >> Well, they're about $30 a piece. So, I mean, yes, it's not a lot. Like, it's $360, but the books are

I'm not a very big traditionalist, so they're kind of I don't want to say a waste, but I am. They're kind of a waste because we just we look at them for like 20 seconds and then they just go away.

And um and then we we we go on to the

next thing. >> Okay. So, the purpose of the books, I'm just curious because I don't understand while these adults are getting children's books for 20 seconds. What What is the purpose of the book?

>> It It's just the tradition they've had.

>> I know, but I mean, when they were children, maybe, but I don't know. Once you're 40, you don't really need a children's book. What's the >> Right. That's the That's my my question

is >> Well, I want to I mean, if she was on the phone, why would she tell me that they're still doing >> because what they've all It's just what they've always done. >> I know. But I mean, I know, but it's just that's the tradition >> is everyone gets a new book for Christmas. It's a Christmas book tradition. Okay. All right.

>> And and it has like a little note from Santa in it.

>> Well, those are hard to get, but Okay.

>> And so that's one thing. And then we have stockings where people can spend $2

to $300. And it's most again my wife and

I and sister for all the stockings.

So they put like $200 or $300 in each.

>> So what is your all's net worth?

>> Not enough for 200. >> No. What's your net worth? No, really.

What's your net worth? >> Uh you mean like total or?

>> Yeah. Like how much do you have in your retirement account? Is your house paid for? All that kind of stuff. >> So the house that I paid for has got about 100,000 left. >> And what's it worth?

>> It's worth 200. And >> Okay. And what's what's in your retirement accounts? >> So retirement, we're we um we work with

a u a pension. So

>> So you don't have any retirement savings? >> Well, I do. I have uh 100,000 saved up.

>> And what's your household income?

>> Um roughly about 210,000 a year.

>> Okay. And this whole thing is like three grand we're talking about, right?

>> Well, yeah. Well, three grand for like

the stockings.

>> Well, the books are 300. So, I mean, it's like three grand for the whole thing, give or take. >> Yeah. And then there's gifts also that we also do, which could also be another

three or 4,000. Do >> y'all have children?

>> No. >> Okay. So, this is the whole Christmas then, >> right?

The problem is that we don't really

put aside for this even though we know it's coming. 200,000 is three grand. It's one and a half% of your of your income. >> I I Yes, I know that. But my wife and I

I'm not going to throw it all on her. Um my wife and I like to to um we're not

good budgeters, I would say.

And so my my question >> Well, I I guess the thing is this. I I I do think just from a marriage communication standpoint that um you

know this thing has continued to go on.

Uh and some of it's frankly doesn't even make sense. Um but at least you need to

understand from her why this is $3,000

worth of important.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz it's no longer $3,000 worth of important to you. Probably never has been actually. >> No.

in the whole 15 years, but now you just been going along with it. >> Stockings is that is crazy though. The amount of money you always spend on stockings. Like you can get some great stocking stuffers and some reasonable small things and it doesn't have to add up to $1,000.

>> Well, and I think the biggest problem, Dale, is you guys aren't do you you have no planning with your income. you guys aren't good budgeters, you already said. So, it feels like you're flapping in the wind and it's like this here and it's kind of freaking you out because y'all don't have control in general. And I really think if you guys lived on a written plan, if you guys we'll get you the Every Dollar app, but you both if you both lived on a budget and you knew exactly where your income was going and you both stuck to it, >> this is not that big a deal.

>> Then it would I don't think it would feel as out of control. I think it feels out of control as a picture of your entire financial picture.

>> Rachel's right. So let's get the whole thing in control >> and then make >> we can use this as a jumping off point for the discussion for that. But I think it's also individually on the budget.

It's okay to talk it through. I mean, we've done that inside of our family and even with our extended family because I have three kids who are married and have eight grandkids. And so, there's 16 of us and uh eight adults and every adult

buying every adult something got out of hand and it just was dumb. We just >> we all we all have the money >> just draw names >> but everybody we just said we're going to draw m it's just more fun for us to not have to go through all that >> exhausting >> and less you know less trying to figure out what Bill wants you know or what Winston wants. It's just a lot and how do you how do you buy something for me because anything I want I just go get it.

Impossible. >> So hard. >> It's impossible. So, you know, it's just, you know, that that whole thing is just we need to just So, we just dumbed it way down and we're going to concentrate on the kiddos and the adults. >> We draw names as adults.

>> Yeah, but it's one thing. I mean, it's not it's not like eight things, right?

So, that's okay. It just calm the thing down. >> No. And I And I'll throw this out there, Dale. Like, they don't have kids. So, this is their family. >> It is her family Christmas >> and it's her family Christmas. So, there is a level of um >> he he's over it.

>> It's her family Christmas. It's He's He's done with He's done with children's books for adults. >> That's my question is how you get No, how you >> don't run out of books. I guess they don't have to be Christmas themed.

>> Well, Rachel, we could help them. >> There can't be like >> We could probably make them a discount if they want to buy a batch of Rachel Cruz children's book. >> Yeah, but I don't I don't know if they're Christmas themed children's books is what I'm saying. I'm just curious how they get so many.

>> I could probably add a note from Santa to I know Santa and probably get him if they bought a whole box a whole case of your books. >> Pull some strings. We could probably do that. I bet we could get the old guy to help us out.

>> Oh man, that that is hard though.

>> Hey, it's the holidays. It's a good time to talk about it. Now is the time to talk about it. Not December second.

>> Yeah, we're in October. It's great.

>> This is the time. By the way, all of you need to um Speaking of Santa, he says to make a list and check it twice. So, you need a Christmas budget. You need to make a list of who you're going to buy for and put a dollar amount beside each name and total that number and set that

dollar amount aside. We used to do that in cash in an envelope and on the outside of the envelope was the list of people and what we were going to spend on each person. And then that cash runs out of that envelope. Christmas be over, baby. That's it. This is what we're spending on Christmas. That's it. Ding ding. We're done. Cuz it's a neverending

merrygoround otherwise.

We just keep hitting the submit button on your cart. Have to stop that.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, is my co-host today. She's also my daughter. Open Phones at8255225.

Jenna is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Jenna. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. So, I just recently found out that I am inheriting about $50,000.

>> Wow. >> Um Yes. Uh definitely a blessing.

>> Who passed away? >> I My grandmother.

>> Oh, I'm sorry.

>> Thank you. Um I am just I'm 25 and I do

have a lot of student loans um as well as a car loan. I have about $95,000

um in total debt. Um 65,000 of that is

my student loans. >> Um >> I am just a little bit confused on where to put it all because >> I don't want to throw everything at my

federal loans. Um so I'm just kind of

confused about where to go with all of this. Um >> I'm curious why would you not throw it at your federal loans?

>> Because I um was approved for the um

public service loan forgiveness.

>> Um >> that's a scam. So, I don't think >> 1% of the people that apply for that end up getting it.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't set my life up on that. >> Well, and you get stuck in a situation that you may want out of and you feel like you have to stay in it. >> 10 years everything has to go exactly perfect, including the federal government doing their job and those things never go to heaven. That doesn't work. >> So, um All right. Aside from that, so

what do you make a year?

>> Um about 60,000 give or take.

>> What do you do? I'm a nurse.

>> Oh, good for you. That's a wonderful career for building wealth and getting out of debt. By the way, you have tremendous control of your destiny in that career. So, you can add hours. You can add an ER shift on the weekend, make a pile of money. You've got all kinds of options at your disposal. So, good for you. Good choice. >> Jenna, what was what was left? You said the 65 is student loans. What was the other 30? >> A car card and credit card.

>> Car and credit card.

Um, I have a car loan for 28 and then just a credit card that has um 1,400 on

it. >> Okay, perfect. >> All right. So, um, and what are you making as a as a nurse?

>> Um, about 60,000 a year, depending on if I pick up or not. It's about $4,000 a month. >> You must have just started.

>> Um, yeah, I've been a nurse for two years. >> Okay. All right. Cuz you probably could be making 80 if you just blink. Okay. Um

>> well and I'm in Indiana so it's a little bit >> I mean you're are you if you're in Indianapolis you're in a major metro market that you're being but yeah all right um

>> what we teach and what we have lived in

our family for the last several decades

is the fastest way to build wealth and stability is to become debtree because when you don't have any payments you have control of your wonderful income. income opportunities to build wealth with. And that's the how the math ends up working.

And so we've taught people to get out of debt so that they can be generous and so that they can build wealth. The first step, however, of getting out of debt is not borrowing anymore.

>> Mhm. >> And so if you got a $95,000 inheritance

and paid everything off, but continued to go into debt, you'd be right back.

>> Yeah. >> We can't do that. Okay. Just like you can't have a patient that's doing something that's causing a health problem, you guys fix it in the hospital, but then they go back to doing the exact same thing and end up in exactly the same health problem again.

Okay? Same thing, right? So, you have to change your habits that got you here.

Like, I don't borrow money for cars anymore. I'm cutting up this credit card and I'm going to get the Every Dollar app and I'm going to live on a decent written plan where my wonderful income will cause me to finish off the rest of my student loan debt and get me and get

me completely clear because if I don't have any payments, I can build serious wealth. >> And that's would be my goal for you if I was doing that. Now, if I'm in your shoes, that means I'm going to pay off the credit card and the car, and I'm going to put the rest of it towards the federal student loans, and um and I'm

not even going to have any fun with it.

And I got to ask you then, if you did that, and you are committed to never borrowing again and living on a plan, would that make your grandmother smile?

>> Yes, definitely. >> Which is one test I always use about inheritance. the person that left it, I

need to honor them by handling it in such a way that they're in heaven smiling.

Okay. And so, in other words, if you did something irresponsible and frivolous with it, she would not be smiling.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. And that that's how I test it out against my am I doing the right thing with my grandmother's money that she left to her prized nurse grandchild that

she's so proud of. >> And what's wild, Jenna, have you done a written budget? Do you know how much money it takes to run just your household? Whether it's like rent, lights, food, how much do you live on, do you think? >> I I do a written budget. However, I've had some recent changes. I've been living at home for a while, but now moving back. So monthly I think it

probably would cost me or yeah monthly it probably cost me about $2,000. I was

just >> And how much is your car payment a month? >> It it's $560.

>> Okay, perfect. So that that's what's crazy is you just got a raise of $560 a

month >> and with that so I mean you're you could be banking 2500 a month just in what

you're doing right now. That's not even overtime and all of it to get the rest of that 45 >> paid off you know. So, it's it is usually >> jumped in, picked up some ER weekends, which you can make double triple time on if you watch what you're doing, you can uh in addition to whatever you're doing in your other 40 hours, you could get this all paid off in a year.

>> Yeah, >> that would be pretty cool. >> The the only thing that I was considering at first is that my private loan has a higher interest rate than any of my federal and I pay almost $300 a month on that. >> Okay. How much is the private loan?

>> Um, it's 23,000.

Oh, perfect. >> And the And isn't that the next smallest one anyway?

>> Um the highest one is 31, the car is 28,

and then the um private loan is third.

>> Yeah, but you have enough to pay the private loan and your car.

>> Mhm. >> Yes. So, do you think I shouldn't?

>> And the credit card. I think you can pay all three of those.

>> Okay. So, >> I didn't have them broken apart. I just heard student loan. Okay.

>> Yeah, that's Yeah. So, then what would be left would be the federal. So you I mean you don't quite have enough to do all of it, but you might have two grand left on the private and you'll knock it out in a month or so. And um yeah, pay

off your uh no your car is the one to be left. I'm sorry. You're going to knock out smallest to largest is how we list them. So the credit card, the 23,000, then the 28,000, right?

>> Uh yes. Okay. >> Okay. And then Jenna, how how much is your private student loan payment every month? >> 300. Um, it's Yeah, the federal I have

have it set to the lowest, which I need to change because I'm not even cover. >> But that's what's crazy, Juna, is this what this money can do on >> be $800. >> $860. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Which is great. That and that gets thrown at the federal debt and then working extra and you get the snowball going really quick. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think you can be out in a year. You're really going to change your cash flow position. You're going to please your grandmother, honor the inheritance that she left you.

Um, and because all of us that have children and grandchildren love them and want to see them prosper and live a sustainable, mature, smart, wise life and all of those things is what we're talking about. You're doing good. I'm real proud of you. >> Well done.

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Ow.

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Meow.

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Lissa is in Ohio. Hi, Lissa. How are you? >> Good. Thank you so much for taking my call, both of you. I really appreciate your time. >> Sure. What's up?

um everything. Okay. So, I'm wondering if like my situation is one of the kind of rare cases where you would suggest that I should sell my house to pay down debt. And if not, then what should I do?

>> Okay. How much debt do you have not counting your house?

>> Um around five or 600,000.

>> Whoa.

>> On what?

>> Um my husband's school loans are 80,000.

My school loans are 45. Um, we have a debt consolidation loan for 45 and you

know, two cars that are ridiculously like the worst thing you've ever heard. I'll tell you if you want to hear it, but I don't think you want to hear it. You might die. >> Just give me the total.

>> Okay. Um, the total owed 67,000 on mine,

62,000 on my husband's. >> Yeah, you're right. Okay. And the big the big thing I think the main reason I'm calling today is we owe the IRS $56,000 and they want to put a lean on our house because we owe over 50,000.

>> Yeah. What um what's your household

income?

>> Um I'm about to go back full-time making 111,000 and my husband usually would be

making around 120 but he was just laid off at the beginning of the month.

>> And that's another part of the story is we have no emergency fund. So, we're rocking it over here.

>> Gosh, I'm so sorry. >> So, normally you would be at like >> I mean, if you get everything going again, you'd be at like 230.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> Yeah. And the house is worth what?

>> Um, it's probably worth between 770 and

800.

>> Okay. And, uh, what's it what do you owe on it? >> 628.

>> Okay.

Well, you know, >> my worry there is like after agent fees and closing costs, >> you don't have you're not going to get enough to clean up the mess. So, the mess is >> I think it would help us with the IRS and maybe to pay out the cars. You know what I mean? The the negative. >> How do you end up owing the IRS 56,000?

>> Oh man. Um, so me and my husband, we've

been married 22 years. We had three kids very young, super broke back then. Um,

so we were on like Medicaid, food stamps, everything like that. We just never had money, right? Then kind of like out of nowhere when he graduated college and then I kind of landed in my career, we started making money out of nowhere and we didn't realize that we

weren't getting enough taken out of our checks, yada yada. So one year after another year after another year, it was like we owed 12,000. We're like, what? I guess it's just tax bracket. I don't understand this. Next year was like we owed 20,000. We're like, why is this happening? I don't get it. So genius me.

This year I finally met with an accountant who told me that I wasn't getting enough taken out of my checks.

Also, I have like a side business um where I design and develop websites and stuff. So, I haven't been doing good at prepaying those taxes either. So, it's like it's just a big hot mess of garbage that you know. >> So, what do you make adult body?

>> Um I think this year and it was like 30.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> All right. So, um

Well, what you have is a series of crisises.

>> Yes. And um you really have to probably

work on uh three of them at least at once. And sadly the house won't fix

them, >> right? >> So um you know what's your husband do for a living? What's his career?

>> Um he's a software quality engineer.

>> Great. Okay. So he's very employable.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Why did he leave?

>> Um he was in like a 18-month contract and they didn't renew it. So, okay. Just just doing contract work. Okay. Which is another time you didn't pay the IRS.

>> Well, I mean, it was a W2. So, >> Oh, a contract W2. Okay. All right.

>> Anyway, so the good news the good news is he probably can lean in, >> put a smile on his face, a pep in his step, brush his teeth, and get a job pretty quick. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Because this is pretty employable situation. All right. So, number one crisis, reemployment.

>> Okay. Okay. Mhm. >> Number two crisis, the IRS. Um, you need

to get on ramiesolutions.com and talk to one of our taxendors local providers, one of the people we endorse in your area, and they will be able to get on the phone and negotiate with the IRS a payment, an installment payment plan with no lean. >> And even if they put a lean, they won't do anything with it because they don't want to pay $628,000 for a house.

Yeah, >> they're not going to do anything with your lean. So, what you don't want them doing is leaning your checking accounts and cleaning out your bank accounts because that would be disastrous.

>> So, you do need to get them you need to get them on a payment plan. And of course, part of that is you really do have to source this all the way to the bottom and make sure we sit with your tax person and if you need a new tax person, you can get them at Ramsey as well. Sounds like you may. um and make sure you've got the right amount coming out of your taxes and that you are doing your uh quarterly estimates on your business and you file those and you file that money on time.

>> Yeah. >> That's that's the law and you're getting hammered with penalties and interest in addition >> to them coming after you for the balance. Okay. So that that's they they get after you on that stuff on that 30,000. They're wearing you out. So, you know, get get on top of that with your systems and your processes. Um,

because you're you're not dumb people.

You're just highly chaotic and disorganized.

>> Yeah. >> I keep saying we spend money like teenagers, you know, like the way >> Yeah, you've been doing that, too. That's another subject I'm coming to in a minute. But, um, but the the you're just out of control. I mean, there's like no off button here. There's frenetic. There's no plan. And so I what

I'm telling you to do is get very systematized and nerdy about this. Like I hired you to straighten out these people's finance. Only these people is you.

>> Yeah. I actually did a literal PowerPoint presentation and Excel sheet before I called you guys to like understand what my picture was here. And >> good. That's that that's a really good start. >> First step actually >> and you got to get got you know that's you know I'm looking at the map and the little red arrow says you are here.

>> I want to get over there and now how do I get over there? Right? So that's what we're talking about. So job, >> get the IRS under control first with a payment plan and with proper withholding and proper filings of your quarterly estimates, then we'll begin to pay them off as quickly as we can. And then we

come to the cars.

>> Yeah, >> they're both ready to get rid of them.

Like we have negative equity about this

is absolute freaking insanity. If you look up crazy in the dictionary, you're gonna see a picture of these cars.

>> I was expecting you to say that. I thought you were gonna say me, but Okay. >> No. No. I mean, this is just And because

it's killing my friend Lissa.

>> Yeah. >> My friend Lissa, these cars own her.

>> Yeah. >> Well, it adds up to what you guys make a year, you know? I mean, >> y'all don't make nearly enough to have those cars even if you paid cash for them. >> Yeah. I think like our situation is that like we've never been late on a car payment on our mortgage, which is >> Are you going to try to justify this to me? Please don't. >> No, no. I'm telling you that's why we thought we were okay.

IRS thing made me look at it. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. That whole dumb thing. >> You realize when you look at these cars that they're a glaring, >> not just a Dave Ramsey thing or a Rachel Cruz thing. They're just a glaring math thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, they're just pointing to you guys. Like you said, we spend money like teenagers, you know, and so you you you

need to get you a couple of, you know, reasonable vehicles, very cheap, like five, 6,000 bucks a piece, and you guys use your $230,000 income to clean up his

freaking mess. So, you get your life back. >> Cuz you're not having fun.

>> Yeah. >> This is highly anxietyinducing.

>> Yeah. >> And when he gets a job back, you know, you guys are making great money.

>> Like insane. So the the >> quart million dollars a year will clean this mess up. >> Yes. Yeah. You guys can do that. And then if you could imagine making that amount of money and actually keeping it and it not going out in payments, you know, and you guys, >> trust me, that's all I imagine these days. >> What if you any payments but a house payment? >> Yes. >> And you made a quarter of a million dollars a year. Oh my goodness.

>> You would have money.

>> Yep. I can't imagine it. And then you can move from a $6,000 car to a $20,000.

>> That's the thing though is even though that's an incredible income, you still have to live within that income because even with that great income, you guys were living >> beyond it, right? >> You two just need to sit down and look at each other. Neither one of us are in Congress, >> right? >> We can't spend like this anymore.

>> It's been like a drunken congressman. I mean, it's out of control. >> Drunken Congressman. >> Well, they say drunken sailors, but I I like sailors, right? you know, sailors, bless their hearts, they're probably way fiscally responsible compared. So, um, even with alcohol involved,

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[Applause] Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y refi. Defaulted private

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That's the letter yfy.comy.

Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Camila in Indiana. said, "I'm trying to wrap my head around the commission method of giving money to kids. I have two who are five years apart. My oldest is 16 and the younger one is 11. Should they have individual lists of tasks or should there be one big list that they both work off of on this on a first come

first served basis? Should give, save,

spend be mandatory part of this participation regardless of what age?

And how do you recommend I mess I can't

recommend age out of it.

>> So for the 16-year-old, I would just

expect them to be helping around the house in general. So there's not necessarily a chore list. They're just becoming an adult. And so they're going to be doing adult-like things. And so whether that's cleaning the kitchen, picking up, um helping with cooking and

laundry, like whatever that is for you, they just are part of helping run the household. And and then I I mean I plan to do with what you guys did is at 16 that they should have their own checking account and the amount of money you would normally spend on them whether that's clothes, friends, gas, whatever it would normally be, you just give them that set amount of money and then they have to manage it and >> with your with your oversight. >> Yes.

then that means I don't have that money to spend for gas in my car." And so if the money runs out, they either get a job or they wait till the next month because they have no more money to spend. And then the 11year-old, yes, I would do a chorebased payment kind of

plan. So they do have chores listed out

that they do and you pay them on there.

And then in that, yes, the give, save, spend method. Um, I would definitely have them do because it's a great >> I like getting all three of those out part of her question. So let me reframe exactly what Rachel said. exact and give you the exact same answer. But let's let's look at it as an evolution. So you teach children how to handle money age appropriately. We don't send the three-year-old to the salt mines.

We might send the 16-year-old. No, I'm kidding. But um you expect more and teach more sophistication and detail and brain

challenge to 16 year olds than you do three-year-olds. You know, if you say clean up your room to a 2-year-old or a

three-year-old, um, we all know that

have had kids that that means I'm going to do about 80% of the work. He's going to put a few toys in the box and he gets a lot of high fives as being the best room cleaner that God has ever made. Way

to go. You're amazing. And here's a dollar for cleaning up your room. That's one of your chores.

But we all know they're not real good at it. They're not competent. That's not the point. The point is to begin to make an emotional connection between work and money.

Money creates work creates money. And I know 54 year olds that don't know that lesson. So, it's good to teach children that work creates money. Even if it's a tiny little thing like picking up four toys.

Okay. >> Then we move on to something a little bit more complicated. You got to feed the dog. You have to clean up the toys yourself.

And you have to empty the dishwasher.

and you can accomplish these horribly complicated, ridiculously straining tasks. And the drama that goes with all of that is unbelievable. And then you get paid a dollar a piece for doing those all week or whatever the agreed amount amount is. And if you don't feed the dog, and I have to, you do not get paid. Commission is work, get paid.

Don't do the work. Don't get paid. By the way, ultimately, I mean, we'll let that go on for a week or two, but I'm just not going to do anything. Is not an option.

You're going to learn to work because my goal raising children was not to raise great kids. It was to graze kids that became great adults. And so, my job is to make sure you brush your teeth so you have some so you're somewhat appealing to the opposite sex and you leave my home later. Okay? That's the idea. Okay?

So, I'm trying to get you out of here.

That's the goal. And what's funny too, I would say majority of kids, not all because some kids are not motivated by money. No, >> but but we have found most. Now, I will say I am a free spirit as a mom. So, I'm probably not as rigid as I should be.

I'm a little bit more like unload the dishwasher and I'll give it. It's not My kids literally created their own. They just showed me yesterday their own chart for letting the dog out in the morning.

>> Ameilia is more organized than you are.

>> And then what's so great about it that genuinely Yeah. She like she should gosh, she's going to take care of our estate. She's going to be great. And so, but she um but she's our saver. And so,

you actually watch them participate and when they earn money, what they do with it. I'm going to show you this picture. I'll text it to the team and they can put it up if they want later. But, it's funny.

We went to Target literally this weekend before I was in Chicago and they got to bring their money >> um to spend because I cuz I don't do it all the time because they just always want to spend the money they make. So, I'm always kind of put it off a few weeks. So we went and my oldest it's like she looks through she looks through and she's like I just think I'm going to think I'm going to keep it. I don't see anything I want.

And then >> I like the money more. >> And then my middle she bought like literally eight things. You see that Caroline? She like couldn't she couldn't handle everything.

She spent every every cent basically.

>> I know. I know. Um but it's great cuz I'm like Yes. And at that age parents like it is it's an amazing thing when they do something for themselves and something big. I mean, they unload the dishwasher, they do, they take out the dog and all of it. >> If you have done that along and you've taught them to work, give, save, and spend, age appropriately, by the time they get to 16, you can talk about we're

going to turn this over to you. I'm going to watch over your shoulder and make sure you do it properly, and I'm not going to control you, but I'm going to allow you to make mistakes, but I'm also not going to let you be out of control with your checking account. But you're going to learn to manage your work, your fun, your spending, and your

saving. And you're going to do and and your giving. And you're going to do all of it yourself. And I want you to feel

the whole thing more like an adult. So then the age out comes. Okay? If they've

been doing that three years or two, I

think we did it with 15 up to about 18 under your control and direction.

progressively, you should need less and less control because you're teaching them to lay out this how much you got for the month. How much of it's going to go to gas? How much of it's going to go to fund? How much of it's going to go to generosity?

How much of it's going to go to this? And you, you know, you need to lay out a budget for this so it doesn't just escape you like everybody else. All right? So, if you've done that for three years, then when they left and went to college did the exact same thing, only we didn't even look at it.

By then, they knew what to do. This is how much you get a month for college expenses.

we're going to pay tuition and we're going to pay books and we're going to pay housing or if you had housing we put that in the amount either one, whatever it was. But this is what you had to work with. We're going to put that in your account. If you want more than that while you're at college, get a job cuz that's how much we're going to give you.

And then it's enough for you to you you're going to have a good time and you can have a good life. You're not going to be driving a brand new BMW. You're a freaking college student that's broke.

And so you're going to be going doing this and you got, you know, college is paid for and even your living expenses is paid for up to a reasonable amount past that. If you want $175 pair of

shoes, you're going to have to get your butt into a job. Okay? And that, you know, cuz I ain't paying for that. And that's then they all four all three, I'm

sorry, there's three of them went through school. I don't I I don't know about that other one, but that other one took off. But the other one, but the other three, they went through school in four years. And the number of times I got a call that said, "Dad, I need money." >> Between all three of them going through four years of college was precisely zero.

Now, we did have a time or two they came home and said, "Hey, here's the actual reality of this budget. It's pretty getting pretty tight. Can we consider doing a raise on it?" And we did do that a time or two, but I've got an emergency. I overspent.

none. So they aged out and then when

they graduated, got married and started their own lives, they already knew how to do life. So we trained them

progressively as they evolved from 3 years old to 23 years old and you know

got in more detail with it and gave more and more responsibility. So, if you got a 16-year-old Camila that's brand new to this whole thing and you dump this on them without >> you teaching them and spending some time talking through these concepts, you're going to have a disaster on your hands. Don't do that. Don't put $1,000 in a 16-year-old's account with no boundaries.

>> That thing's just you're just going to piss away $1,000 instantaneously and get no lesson out of it. Cuz the goal here is not the money.

spending, and work. If you teach those

goals, they learn those principles.

They'll find their own money as adults.

[Music]

[Music] Our

[Music]

scripture of the day, Isaiah 29:24, "Those who are confused will gain understanding, and those who grumble will accept instruction." Tommy Lassorta said, "There are three kinds of people in this world. People who make it happen, people who watch what happened, and people who wonder what happened." Hey folks, don't just set goals in 2026.

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they last at ramseyolutions.com/store

or click the link in the show notes. Uh, Ryland is with us in Utah. Hi, Ryland.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Just the same. How can I help?

>> I was um I'm 22 years old and I just

graduated college um shortly after I moved back home. Um

but during my time in college, I was able to save around $60,000.

>> Um >> Wow. >> Dang. How did you do that?

>> I started a clothing business and ran that all through uh well, I started in high school and then ran it all through college while I was studying. Dang, that's impressive. >> Good for you, man. >> Way to go. Like new clothing or what were you doing?

>> It was hoodies. Um, so we Yeah, we had a

hoodie brand and then uh marketed it through, you know, all the short form platforms. >> You said had Have you quit it?

>> I haven't quit it yet. >> Um, but again, like the income's pretty variable and I just started a a new job.

So, >> good. What do you make of your new job? >> You end it on a >> uh 65,000. >> Good for you, man. 60,000 in the bank.

graduated from college, $65,000 income, and a hoodie side hustle. Way to go, man. You're killing it.

>> Thank you. Thank you. So, my question was, I'm I'm at home. Um, and I have the

opportunity for the next year to live at home. >> Um, >> you don't need to do that. You're a man.

>> And then I also, um, I've kind of

getting been getting the itch to move away. Good. >> Um, and start my own life. Um, >> scratch it. And so I just kind of wanted to get your advice on if I should continue to >> keep investing money or move. Okay.

>> I figured you'd >> scratch the itch, man. >> And be free. >> Listen, here here's the thing. You have done so many things that are mature beyond your age. You've started and run a successful business. You've saved $60,000. You graduated from school. You

got a legitimate solid first entry job coming out. What's your degree in, by the way?

>> I got it in business analytics. So, I'm a consulting analyst.

>> I'm not shocked. Okay. That's just wonderful. So, everything in your story is so solid and so mature. And yet what

you're going to find is when you buy your own milk and your clothes don't jump up onto the hanger magically, but without you putting them there, um, your life's going to even get further along in your in your maturation and your development.

And so the Ryland that I'm talking to now will be a substantially different man after he's completely on his own, paying his own bills top to bottom. and he swings by and tells his mom he loves her occasionally, but he does not live there and she does not buy his food or his clothes or iron his shirts.

>> Yes. Amen. And when you go on dates, you

don't have to be like, "Well, uh, guess we got to end this cuz mom and dad are home and I can't bring you home, right?"

>> I'm not kidding. There's something very like Yep. All of it. So, >> it's good. It's good for you.

>> Yeah. That's that's you're you're man.

You got so many things going on. >> Done though, Ryland. I bet your parents are so proud. >> I bet they are. I'm proud of you and I'm sure they are. >> And uh it's not my point is it's not just a math thing. There's things that are going to happen in the spirit realm and in the psychological realm for you that are um that are that that far outstrip what little amount of money you could save on rent.

>> So go be go be the best version of you for the next three years, man. I love it. I'm proud of you. Jake's in Texas.

Hey, Jake. What's up?

>> Hey, what's going on?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Thanks for having me on. Uh, called in to see if it was appropriate or what

should I do first before purchasing a

higherend time piece.

>> Cool. What's the watch?

uh looking at brand various brands the typical Rolex Panerai Omega I haven't

really narrowed it down but kind of feel guilty >> you're thinking about a budget of what 10 20 R >> uh 10 10ish >> would be right it's my first one and I feel guilty spending that much money on my myself I don't feel guilty spending it on you if you've got it or you do you have any debt >> we've got uh the house a car one of the

cars is green here and then no other debt besides that. Well, I got to fess up. We We owe 700 bucks on a mattress that I could pay off right now. >> How much you No, you don't need to buy a $10,000 watch. You have a car debt.

>> Okay. >> You're broke. >> What do you make?

>> Uh this year I will eclipse 400.

>> Good God. Commission.

>> What do you do? >> You know, anywhere. I'm in the mortgage industry.

How long have you been in the mortgage industry? >> 19 years.

>> Wow. >> How old are you, Jake?

>> I'm 41. >> Okay. >> So, why prayail if you made 400 grand?

Do you have a car debt?

>> I don't know. I could pay it off, too.

>> Good. You have the money in the bank to pay it off? >> Yeah. >> How much money have you got in the bank?

>> We are approaching 1.2 in total cash

assets. Okay.

>> You don't I mean this you're not talking you're not talking about retirement.

>> Uh 6 or 700,000 of that's retirement.

The rest rest is post tax 529s,

>> stocks, bonds, cash, just various

>> Well, it's ludicrous to borrow money on a mattress. I can't imagine what you were smoking that caused that. And it's almost as dumb to buy borrow money on a car when you have the money sitting in the bank to write a check and pay for it. >> So, I mean, you did call the Ramsay show. You know that, right? >> I'm aware. I'm aware. I knew you were going to beat me up a little bit.

>> All right. So yeah, I would go buy the watch as soon as I pay to celebrate paying off the car and the thing and to celebrate my de newfound debt freedom that I'm never going to do this again because I make too stinking much money and I have too stinking much money to be buying things with debt. But no, you if you make 400 grand and you're debtree except your home and you have a half a million dollar in non or 700,000 in nonretirement cash assets laying around, you can do a $10,000 watch. Absolutely.

How much is left on the mortgage, Jake?

>> Uh, we owe 290 and the house is worth

750. >> Won't you go ahead and pay it off? >> Get the house paid off. >> Go ahead and pay it off, too. >> That scares me. So, hear me out.

>> Why does that scare you? >> Because he's a 400 every year. It's been a good year.

>> Unbelievable year. >> Up and down. You know,

>> it would scare me le I mean, if I had no income, I would rather have no mortgage.

Just the feeling of having the cash.

>> Yeah, it's a feeling and it's a you're in the mortgage business. I'm trying to take you into paying a mortgage off. I get that. But, you know, but yeah, I if

I woke up in your shoes, sir, I would be a 100% debtree and wearing a $10,000

watch by the end of the month.

>> Okay. >> Car, house, mattress. Oh, God. And

everything. That's where I That's exactly where I would be. And then I'd be on a written game plan. And then you make a crap ton of money and you just >> fasten because here's the other thing.

If you're just a tiny bit afraid about having less cash assets, it'll motivate your butt to do more deals.

>> Yeah. >> Well, and with that income, which I know you don't get that every year, Jake, but like you can replenish the cash very fast. >> Yeah. You you built it pretty quick. So, >> yeah, >> you've done a really really good job.

Um, I I will tell you in general, you

don't need to feel guilty when you can spend the money and it's a small percentage of your world. And in general, that's the answer to your question. Yes. But I gave you a lot of detail to go around that of all the things I would do. But you did ask and you did call this show. So that that's exactly what I do. You've done very very well. Don't I I I ran into this because you're a great salesman and salesman sometimes run into what I did. I tried to out earn my stupidity for a while.

Just lay it in place a system. Work the stinking system, man. And then go bank a pile of money and apply it to the system. You're doing so good. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 106. Make The Most of Your Financial Choices—They Matter | December 22, 2025


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Hey, before we get rolling, listen up.

If you want to win with money in 2026,

you can't keep living normal. Normal's broke. You need a plan. Get a

personalized plan and start living like

no one else by downloading our EveryDollar app today.

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird, [music] so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

The number here if you want to talk is triple eight 825-5225.

And [music] we're going to talk about you right in front of you. Nancy's with us in Clarksville. Hey Nancy, how are you? Good day. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Um my question is I have paid off

all my debt in step two. Um but the problem is I got involved in a lease for an HVAC system. The total cost of the system when paid off at 10 years will be 62 over $62,000.

So I'm wondering, do I pay it off using the debt snowball method and just get out of it, meaning

I'm responsible for all that, or just leave it until I do the house stuff?

Wow. Okay.

I didn't know you could do a lease on a heat and air system.

That sounds like it sounds like you got >> General and I went to Better Business Bureau and the Attorney General Consumer Protection Department said it is legal.

It's being done all across the US. Yeah.

Um so yeah. But it's so bad that they

Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah.

Okay. So a lease typically

I have no idea in this case, but typically would have an early buyout provision because leasing is simply financing.

An early buyout >> is termination. Okay. What What does it cost to terminate it?

The cost of the whole contract.

>> No. >> have remaining, yes. Yes, sir. No. Yes,

sir. 47 right now my lease buyout would

be about $47,000.

I paid I've paid 15. >> Now you You had an attorney look at that part also, right?

I'm I'm getting there. I Right after I did the system, um I got diagnosed with cancer. So I had I got kind of sidelined for a few few years. Now I'm like, wait a minute. I don't want to keep doing this. This is This is thievery. It's theft.

Wow. But Okay, cuz I've I I mean I know a lot of equipment leasing, certainly car leasing.

Um and I've looked at the contracts on all kinds of leasing deals, even employee leasing they have out there now. Uh which is really strange. And um

Uh uh every one of those have because have a buyout provision that is less than the total of payments because you're giving

them their capital early. You're giving them their money early and so they they're not collecting interest, so to speak, even though there's not technically an interest rate.

And so almost every one I've ever seen, but I've never seen a heat and air one, so I don't know.

My God, honey. Um All right. So let's let's do two things. Number one, I want you to reinvestigate that part of it.

Okay. Because as as suspect as this whole thing is, that part of it's suspect. So if the total of your remaining payments is 47, a normal buyout provision would put you somewhere in the 30s.

And the way you would do that, if that's the case, is instead of paying them in

advance like double payments like you would in a debt snowball, you simply save the money up. You pay You pay yourself into a savings account and then write them one check.

If there is a discount for early payout, okay?

And there typically is. If there is not, either way, what is your income?

Uh I just retired from federal service, so my income's roughly 2400.

Okay, this goes in baby step six then

because it is a the equivalent of a second mortgage.

And it's a lien on your house because it's a lien on your heating and air system. And you would pay it off in baby step six when you're paying off the house.

Okay. Um what is your interest rate on your home?

Uh 2.25. Yeah. And no no no bueno there.

We leave that alone. Okay.

Cuz if you had a higher interest rate, I would suggest refinancing and taking them out.

Okay. My mortgage balance is 169 Yeah.

578. So when you get to baby step six, you knock out the lease first either way, whether you get a discount or not, because it's more than half your annual income. When a when a home equity loan or a second mortgage of any kind is more than half your annual income, we move it to baby step six. Mhm. Yeah. I've never heard of such a thing as I [laughter] have now. Yeah. I There's a lot of things that I get on this show that is This is where I learn about it. Yeah.

And then I have to go look it up later and go, "Oh, it is a thing." So um um Uh you know what else I didn't ask? She said federal employee. I Clarksville is a is a base. Military base.

>> Oh, that's right. So these these may be morons that are preying on our military people. >> Yeah, that's big. That's Yeah, which makes us like double Yeah, a double negative for this company that does that.

Oh, there we go. >> There you go. I helped with that. Yeah.

Just throw a dart out there into the universe to see if we can hit a balloon. Why not? Yeah. Man.

Oh, man. Cuz I did have that happen one time. I was ripping on the payday lenders at 800%. Oh gosh, yeah. And a lady called and said, "Well, my my son owns two of those stores." I said, "Well, tell him to sell them and quit being scum." Uh-huh. He's ripping off poor people. He's oppressing the poor.

Read about what happens to in the Bible when you do that. It's not good for you.

It's not a place you want to be. Messing with widows, orphans, and oppressing the poor. These are not three things you want to do in the Bible. And um and really, just as a matter of living your life properly. Hello. Mhm. But uh yeah, they're scum. They're scum. So yeah, it shouldn't be Don't be scummy. And and then you're safe on this show. We We [laughter] leave you alone. >> about you. We won't talk about your kid.

We won't talk about you. We won't do any of that. Yeah. So So uh interesting to side note, the lease on a car, and I suspect it's true on a heat and air system, is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle.

Several publications, including Ramsey Research, have done detailed research on this. And when you run the math out, so you can take a financial calculator and say this is what the MSRP is on the car, which is what it's calculated on.

Here's what the buyout is at the end of

the lease. A closed-end lease always has a number after 3 years, 4 years, 7 years, whatever it is, you can buy the car for 12,000, but it was a $64,000

car, or whatever it is. Mhm. So you've got those two numbers, and then you have the number that is the monthly payment. When you put those into a financial calculator, you can figure out what the effective cost of capital is. Uh that's a fancy way of saying the interest rate.

However, interest rates are not disclosed on leases like they are on car loans. Cuz the Federal Trade Commission requires they hand you one piece of paper with your APR on it. Even if they're screwing you, they have to hand you that piece of paper. And you'll look down and you'll see 38% or 28% or 12%.

You know, you'll know you got subprime, right? On a lease, you don't have to do that cuz lease is not technically borrowing money. But you can run out But it is borrowing money. >> So that cost of capital, there's no cap.

No cap at all. And no knowledge of what it is unless you know how to run a financial calculator. >> Wow. And I've done it on probably 40 or 50 leases over the years. Every time I do it, it comes out between 14 and 17%.

>> Mhm. And so those of you that are I got my BMW on a lease because my accountant said that was the smartest way to do it, you're an idiot. You got hammered.

You're paying 17%.

You should fire your accountant and get rid of your Beamer. You're getting hammered. >> Mhm. But you never did any math. You just thought you were sophisticated.

Jeez. No, you wanted a Beamer. That's what it was. And there's a way to get a Beamer. Very little down, a lot a month, and very little at the end. Yeah, this is the problem.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.

Michael is in Toronto. Hey Michael, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, thank you.

What's up?

So, um I'm currently 18 and by the time

I graduate, I'm probably looking at a hundred to a hundred and twenty thousand dollar loan that I'm sitting at and my current car is under my mom's name with her interest rates on it.

And her credit got ruined by my dad leaving. And I'm looking to switch the

car with way less percentage of

interest. But I have to max out my credit cards for the interest for the down payment to put on it.

And I don't know what to do if it's even worth it or not. What's your car?

What do you owe on the car?

Uh I'm sitting so I bought the car at 30,000. I'm looking at 41,000 right now.

And you're a college student?

Um first year, yes.

With a $40,000 freaking car. What are you doing with a $40,000 car? You're a college student.

I had a $70,000 car and another 60,000.

I sold it. I made profit.

But my mom's credit got ruined and

they gave me a 12% interest on it and I didn't realize till yesterday when I checked and I only had it for 5 months.

I don't think this is your mom's fault. You bought a $30,000 car and you're in a $40,000 car and you're in college.

>> Mhm. You be You get a $4,000 car. Do you make any money? What's your income?

So I'm sitting at 1,000 to 1,500

from my work at retail.

And I had side businesses before and I

had like about $70,000. I blew it all.

And now I make maybe 500 to a thousand dollars from my side businesses a month. Mhm. Okay. Do you have any money saved?

Nothing. I'm in debt with credit cards.

Okay. So, the car you owe 41,000 on it.

If you sold it private sale, what's it worth? Or your mom's car? >> Uh right now with a trade-in, they're giving me 28,700. Oh my gosh.

>> trade-in. $12,000 negative equity on it.

>> Okay, but let's look at that's your homework is to look at the Kelly Blue Book value if you did private sale cuz you're going to get more for it. I did.

It's 30,500.

30,500. Okay.

If I were in your shoes >> But I can't. There's a lien on the car

that I can't pay.

Yeah, I mean you make a thousand dollars a month, your car payment's more than that, isn't it?

Uh my car payment comes exactly to a thousand with interest.

>> So how are you paying it?

Uh Credit cards? Basically everything I got. No, no, I can't put on credit. It's debit. Basically everything I got. >> if you make a thousand dollars a month and you spend a thousand a month on your car, you don't have money to put gas in it and you don't have money to eat.

So I do eat out a lot. I don't know how.

>> No, I make like 1,500. I can on a good month I make 2,000. On slow months in retail, I make 1,500.

>> Okay, so you got $500 to spare. You eat a little bit, you pay your insurance, you get gas. You've got nothing left.

>> Okay, let me let me stop a second cuz I I did a drive I did a drive by on something a minute ago I want to know more about. You had $70,000

in savings you said from a side hustle that you blew. Did I hear you say that?

Yes. Tell me about that side hustle.

Where did all that wonderful money come from? It came from I used to sell screen protectors and cases during COVID when I was 14. Ah. And Amazon. Yeah. So, no

COVID, no business. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

All right. And I gave most of it to my mom after the separation. Mhm.

And she's sitting at least at 300 to 400,000 herself. Yeah. Okay, you're 18.

You're 18. Your mother is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to love her and care for her, but not you are she's not your financial responsibility. So this has got to stop.

And unless you can create a huge income,

you need to get rid of this car and get a $2,000 car.

I tried doing that, but I have to so the loan that I have >> would put I would put the five thousand I'd put the ten thousand dollars on a credit card. I'd rather have ten thousand dollars on a credit card than 41,000 on a car. Amen.

I can't. I can't put it on a credit card. Why? I have maybe 3,500 left on

the credit that I can spend. Yeah. Okay.

Who do you owe the 41,000 to?

Uh to a bank.

Go down talk to the bank about signing a note for the difference.

Do that, right? And then what about on the new car?

Uh so that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me on the new car that I looked at that I'm going to get.

Um same monthly payments instead of 96 month loan, it's a >> I didn't say anything about monthly payments. I said get a $2,000 car.

Uh because we tried we tried when we went to the bank. I didn't want you to go to the bank. I want you to come up with $2,000 and go buy a car.

Just buy a car? Yeah, are you are you in school full-time?

Yeah. Are you on campus? You're at home?

Or at home? Uh campus.

Like where do I live? At home. Okay. How close are you to campus?

What I'm getting at is you might go through 2 months where you don't have a vehicle and you make it work. And instead of using that thousand dollars a month to pay for a car note, you use it to save up and get yourself a little beater car is what we're saying. >> away from campus.

Okay.

All right. Okay, here here's the thing.

We keep throwing suggestions out and the only answer you've got is it doesn't work. So let me tell you what doesn't work. Your life the way you have it set up right now. Your situation sucks beyond belief. The decisions you have

made are beyond suicidal financially.

So, you've got to throw a stick of dynamite in the middle of this freaking mess you've created and it's going to be really uncomfortable, but you know what's going to be more uncomfortable? You sit there in this pile of stuff and you're going to smell like this stuff as long as you sit there in it coming up with excuses to sit there in it. So you have got to get rid of this mess. You've got to create a big You may need You may need to quit school.

You need to go get some dadgum money and start cleaning up this mess.

going to school on caffeine and doing

what normal people do when they get in this instead of telling me, "Oh, my mom got screwed over by my dad when he left." I'm sorry, but that doesn't mean you buy a $70,000 car while you're in college and downgrade it to a $41,000 car and act like that's smart.

Nowhere in this conversation is smart.

Smart didn't come up today.

Okay? No, it didn't. >> even show up here. So dude, you have got to get rid of the car and you've got to figure this out some way or another. Now we're giving you lots of suggestions, okay? Take get get a buddy to take that's in the neighborhood to take you to college. Quit college for a year and take you a gap year and go clean this mess up while you work like a freaking maniac.

But you are man, you you you cannot

there's nothing in this that the math works. Sixth graders could tell you this math doesn't work.

It This is a mess.

And so no, you can't keep this car and no, you can't keep this life the way it is it designed right now. It's why you called. And you can't get another car on payments. >> to argue with you about it anymore. I'm through talking to you about it. So you go fix this. We gave you some suggestions, but part of fixing it is you've got to decide that where I live, the land I live in right now is the land of stupid and I want to leave.

That's that's the first decision you got to make and we ain't even been able to get that far with you. So that's where you got to go, man. That's where you got to go. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Now Jade, let's just review the policies on this show. Review it. We love you.

All of you. If you've done something stupid, we love you anyway. We've done something stupid.

I have a PhD in DUMB. Jade and Sam

cleaned up $465,000 worth of stupid in their life. So no one sitting here high and mighty talking down to someone. So we love you. We love you so much we're going to tell you the truth. We're we're going to start gentle and we're going to start by trying to help you move along. But if you want to argue with us while we're trying to help you, it's going to get nasty fast because we love you.

I'm going to smack you upside your stupid head until you listen to the stuff that'll make your life better.

Now I will start with a gentle handshake and say, "Honey, this is the best way to do it." Well, Dave, I listen to you all the time, but I'm not selling the car.

Well, you're an idiot. You got to sell the car. That's what That's how it's going to sound around here, honey. Okay, so we're we're we're going to serve you

when you call here. You're not entertainment value for us. You're a calling for us. You're a crusade for us.

We want you to win and we're going to do everything in our power starting at first gently and turning up the heat by degrees during the time we're on the phone together until we have contact. This is

the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it.

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>> [music]

>> Jade [music] Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jaden is in [music] Casper, Wyoming. Hi, Jaden. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you for taking my call, fellas. Sure. Merry Christmas. What's up?

Um my wife's been pestering me for quite

some time now to take her on a vacation.

Um I'm not sure right now is the time to do it. We're both pretty young. I'm 25, she's 21.

Um we got a little one on the way here before too long, and we're getting ready to purchase a property we intend to build on. Okay. Do you guys have debt?

No debt. No debt. We've been very fortunate in that way. Community college educated. >> [laughter] >> Okay. What's your household income?

Um I bring about 50,000 home after

taxes, and she brings about 20,000. And

that's part of the issue is that next year her income will be going away.

She's a preschool teacher now, um but with the little one, she's going to stay home. Do you have an emergency fund saved?

We do. The thing that concerns me is that after the down payment on the property, that's that's what we'll be left with is with our emergency fund.

So, to take that vacation, we'd be kind of having to dig into that a little bit.

Well, a vacation's not an emergency, so I would not dig into the emergency fund to take an emer- to take a vacation ever. Um What does she want to spend?

She wants to go somewhere warm, you know, Wyoming. This time of year you want to kind of leave it a little bit.

Um about 2,000. 2,000? Okay. So, have

you run Have you run out the numbers on what Here's the thing.

I'm not saying uh I'm not saying no, and I'm not saying when, but you can decide when. You can look at this and go, "Okay, my wife wants to take a vacation. We've never taken a vacation. We're debt-free.

We have an emergency fund. We're also trying to move in this house. What What can that look like, and when is the time to take it?" Because if you just tell her no, and you kind of just swat it away like a gnat, she's going to get irritated. Um >> [laughter] >> Well, no, that's not your position anyway.

She's not a child.

Okay? The two of you ought to sit down as two adults and go, "Okay. Yeah, vacation is a good thing.

Uh our emergency fund's a good thing.

Having a baby's a good thing. Buying this piece of ground's a good thing. None of these are bad things. Now, where do they fit in our lives with our goals

as grown-ups?

You know, you can't just be a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit.

You have to be like an adult.

Both of you.

And so, I don't want you being her daddy and have to talk her off the ledge. I want her to grow up and look at it and say, "As a grown woman who's has a child, what is responsible for me? I Yeah, I want to take a vacation. I'd love to take a vacation.

Um but as a grown woman looking at this, I can't afford to do it right this second cuz I'm not going to be working next year after the baby comes. Or as a grown woman looking at this, uh I've got a child on the way. I'd really want to do this. You know, we do have $86,000 in the emergency fund.

We probably can go ahead and take a vacation cuz you've overfunded the emergency fund, Bubba.

That's right. But and if she's laid out how you guys can do this, then And it's wise. >> And it's wise, then you've also got to be open to going >> got to be a grown-up, though. It can't be "I want it. I deserve it." You know, I don't Bull crap. That's what 14-year-olds do.

That's not what grown women do, grown men do. No. Um so, no, you you have to be emotionally mature and say, "What is good for our family, and if in the midst

of that we can do this reasonably, and we don't leave our family vulnerable with no emergency fund cuz we went on vacation, that would be stupid." Yeah, that's not good. Um or leave our family vulnerable since you're going to be quitting work and staying home with the child, and and you can't make your bills

because you went on vacation last winter because it's cold in Wyoming, which is not a shock to anyone in Wyoming, for sure. And so, you know,

that kind of So, I mean, what I want to do is just pull her into the conversation as a grown woman, not as someone who's I have I can't get my husband to let him let me do stupid stuff. I mean, this is just That's ridiculous. That's not a conversation you want to have in a marriage. It needs to be the two of you are are we have this child, we have this future.

What makes sense? And yes, vacations are part of the equation. I got no issue with that at all. Mhm.

But but where they fit is where your point, Jade.

>> know, Where and when? Yeah, they don't strike me as people who are not smart with their money. They paid off their debt. They've got an emergency fund.

They're Looks like they're trying to do this house the right way. I have a feeling that he's laser-focused and sometimes has to remember like, "Hey, we can we can do some things sometimes." That's just my my spidey sense. >> Could be. Could be.

Yeah. Could be loose loosening the nerd up a little >> Loosening up the nerd. Yeah, but she needs to do that with reason, That's right. not with emotion.

Yeah. And that that's a fair That's a fair request for a grown-up.

Steven is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Steven. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas. How are y'all? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

Okay, so here's my situation.

I'm 20 years old. I'm engaged, and I'm planning on getting married in June.

And uh that being said, we're looking to get an apartment together in June because that's what you do. You move in together once you get married. Facts. Um I'm completely debt-free.

She has a little bit of student loan debt, but that's kind of uh beside the point. The pro- question for me is my grandma opened up a credit card for me to use strictly as a gas card.

And that's my only credit card, and she always pays it on time, but that being said, I have credit with >> it Wait a minute. How Oh, you're 20 years old. Why does your grandmother pay your card?

That That was her way of saying that she wants to support me through college.

That was >> [laughter] >> That was her gift to me.

And so, I I can totally afford my own gas, but that's just Good. gift she wanted to give to me. And but I know that I want to get this apartment, and I really like the sound of what y'all talk about of letting your credit score roll over to nothing.

Uh-huh. But I'm afraid that if I say, "Hey, Grandma, thank you, but let's close this card. I appreciate the gesture. I can pay for this." Um that my credit score will plummet, but it won't flip and disappear before that time in June when I'm trying to get an apartment. >> Honey, you don't have to have a credit score to get an apartment.

Okay. That's That's That's mythology.

We've done this about six times in Ramsey in the last six or eight years.

One of the personalities will jump on the phone and call 15 apartment complexes and say, "Hey, I'm moving to Nashville. Um do you guys I don't have a credit score cuz I'm just out of school, and I got zero credit score.

Uh do you guys You guys rent to people without a credit score?" Nine out of 10 say they do.

Some of them, a couple of them want an extra deposit, but most of them are just No, it's no big deal. Come on over.

That's just complete mythology that people have spread out there among your age group. Mhm. It's just not true.

Exactly. Nine out of 10 are not don't care if you have a credit score.

Awesome. I did not know that. I was under the impression that Yeah.

>> my credit score would plummet and that might jeopardize whether or not we'd be able to move in. >> Your your credit's when you stop borrowing money, your credit score will go away. Um it's not going to plummet.

It's just going to disappear. Um but to Dave's point, you're he's right. There are plenty of places that you don't need a credit score to go and so you'll just do your due diligence and find one.

Yeah. Yeah, just you know, can't rent to those you can't rent from those guys cuz they require one. I can't rent from these people over here though. And by the way, that's a great litmus test because when you move into an apartment, you want to have a super whoever's in charge that uses their brain because things are going to happen.

You're going to need to talk to them about things and you want something fixed, right? You want somebody who uses their brain. So that's a great way to start. Yeah.

And if they only way they approve you is by a number, that's not using your brain by definition.

Very good. Good stuff. Yeah, you can look those uh calls up. We've had uh different personalities do this over the years and they're on the YouTube channel and you can see the them making phone calls to the apartments and and it's recorded and you can hear the conversation.

Yeah, George did one on on the fine print, remember? Yeah, that's the one I remember and he he did. He went out and he was able to call them and there were plenty that did. You just have to call around a little bit.

It's not going to be the first It may not be the first door [music] step that you go to. That's all. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> I know that's right. Wow. Good for you.

Good for you, Stephen. Well done, sir.

This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

There are few things in my life that I've run into that um other than things

from the Bible >> [music] >> that I am 1,000% sure work.

Um teaching the seven baby steps that we teach here. The first one is save a thousand dollars. The second one is get out of debt everything but the house using a debt snowball and gazelle intensity uh as if you're running from a cheetah.

The gazelle runs for its life. That's the intensity you use to get out of debt. You sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. You don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there and you're not going on vacation cuz you're a broke person in debt and you are ears laid back running headlong straight into this getting rid of it, baby.

And we're going to leave it all on the field. That's baby step number two. And then you go on to building an emergency fund, retirement plan, kids' college, pay off the house, and become very wealthy.

those everywhere in The Total Money Makeover book is where we outline them.

We've sold 12 million copies of that. 10 million [clears throat] people have been through Financial Peace University where we teach those baby steps and how to implement them. So tens of millions

literally of people and there's tens of millions of you listening at this moment to this podcast on YouTube and on talk radio. Uh so we know that easily a

hundred million people have done some stage or some process of the baby steps.

And um with varying degrees of success because of varying degrees of commitment sacrifice like you do with anything.

So it's it's a it's a proven thing. It's not a theory comes out of a test tube.

The debt snowball is probably what we've become best known for. Now this is where you list all of your debts except your home smallest to largest. You pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. You attack the little one with a vengeance.

You squeeze every dollar, every drop out of your budget and you throw it at the little one. You work extra, you sell stuff, you clean out a savings account all the way down to a thousand dollars, you stop putting money in your 401k, you get term insurance and cash in your stupid whole life policy, you sell a car if it's too expensive, you do whatever you got to do and you throw every dime at that smallest debt until it's gone. When that one's gone, you take the payment you used to pay there and every dime you can squeeze out of everything else and you put it on number two.

And when number two's gone, the payment from number one and number two are freed up. The snowball rolls over again.

And you're doing this with just increasing levels of hope, increasing

levels of sacrifice, increasing levels of passion and every time the snowball rolls over and you get rid of another payment, that's that much more money freed up in your monthly budget to attack the next one down.

And it's been unbelievably successful.

But Dave, I got to be I'm the person because I know what they say in the comments. I I I see what people are asking and the bigger the biggest two questions are this. Dave, I've got my debt listed.

What if I have a debt that the interest rate is just killing me? Why would I put

the lower one first What why would I list them smallest to largest if it means me, you know, having to pay this high interest loan for much longer? What about the math, Dave? It's brain chemistry.

A dopamine is released when you complete a task.

Dopa There's a dopamine release. Mhm.

And it's called a feedback loop in psychology. And so when you have success at something, you're more likely to repeat the task.

>> And the faster you have success and the more often you have success, the more you've got a feedback loop and the more the dopamine releases there and and and uh in a spiritual realm, we would call this hope. >> Mhm. Mhm. You start to believe it's going to work because it's working.

And then you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more and you lean in that much more. And that's why this works because no one set set up set sat

down at their kitchen table and said, "Hey, let's go deeply in debt cuz that's a good idea." A series of behaviors put you into debt and you don't fix a behavior problem with a math solution. You fix a behavior problem with a behavior solution.

And the feedback loop, this positive feedback, I knocked out one. Yeah. I knocked out another one. Yeah.

I knocked OUT ANOTHER ONE. WOW. AND THEN and you're down you're beating on the you're beating on that student loan. You're beating on that big one.

You're beating on that car. AND YOU'RE YEAH. AND and now you're starting to yell at the your neighbors think there's problems over there, you know, cuz you're getting fired up cuz it's working and that's the dopamine release. That's hope that you're starting to believe.

And when I first started I paid off the little one, I wasn't so sure. And the next one, I'm well, maybe this will work. And then the next one, yeah, it's going to work. And the third ONE WAS LIKE, AND AND THEN YOUR BROKE FRIENDS START making fun of you and you want to punch them, you know.

And so this is this is this is why it works. And and that's why the debt avalanche does not work. That's right. Or consolidation, you know, when people Exactly, cuz you don't change your habits.

>> That's right. The debt avalanche is where you lit it's a you know, you list your it's mathematically correct. Well, honey, if we're doing math, we wouldn't have credit card debt.

It's a stupid problem. That's what we have to fix, the stupid, not the math.

And so the math is you know, we're going to list it highest interest rate to smallest interest rate because this interest rate's killing me. And here's the problem.

While that sounds like it's mathematically correct, it's not because your math that you're using is very naive and you left variables out of the math formula. Here's a variable you left out of your math formula.

Probability of completion.

If your probability of completion is 80 or 90% with a snowball, but the math is

running against you, when net of probability of completion, it's going to beat the avalanche cuz the probability completion's close to zero.

Almost no one finishes that cuz there's no feedback loop, no dopamine release, no hope release, no sacrifice increase, no getting the spouse on board cuz this crap's starting to work. For the first time in my life, I'm telling money what to do instead of it telling me what to do. I am not relinquishing this control ever again. You start getting a little swagger, man.

You're ready to go. That's true. >> And that's why this thing works and and and why it's so many millions of people have gotten out of debt using the Ramsey system, which is just freaking common sense.

So Northwestern University did a study

uh of the debt snowball versus the avalanche.

And they concluded because of probability of completion that the snowball was far superior because if you quit and you don't get out of debt using the mathematically superior, which is not really mathematically superior, it doesn't work. >> That's right. >> So, you don't get completion, you don't get to the goal. So, and then Time magazine comes out and does a story on the Northwestern studio Northwestern study and they go, "Turns out Dave Ramsey was right." >> [laughter] >> Like we didn't already know that. We've got like millions of proof text here.

We've got so much social proof on this that's unbelievable. We beat your research project into submission. So, good God, people. This is not that hard.

Get your butt out of debt. Your number

one wealth building tool is your income.

And when you're giving it to stupid Bank of America, Lexus Motor Credit, and MasterCard, who's your master of your life? You You know, and you wonder why you work so hard to make a hundred thousand dollars a year and I got nothing. It's cuz you're giving it all to these stupid banks. And you've got to

get back control of your life. You dis- You work too hard to be broke, people.

You need to retain control of your life.

This is so empowering. It is. So, Dave, get a little bit more tactical because we know, okay, we're listening to smallest to largest. Okay, Dave, I will do the debt snowball method, but what Where do cars fit into that? You're telling people all the time to sell their car. That's not my smallest debt.

Do I do it first? Do I wait until I get to that on the debt snowball? When do I sell my car? The rule is if you can pay the car off and all the other debt within 2 years, not counting your house,

and you like the car, keep it in the debt snowball and pay it off.

But if the car is keeping you from making it out in 2 years, if it's one of

the reasons, okay?

But if you got a $5,000 car and a $200,000 student loan, the car is not your problem. >> That's right. But you got a $70,000 car and a $6,000 student loan, You got a shoe. and you can't make it out in 2 years, well, it's the car, stupid.

You know, so get rid of the dumb car. So, can you get rid of the thing and do you like it? Well, I hate it. Well, get rid of it anyway then.

It's You You get rid of it even if you weren't broke cuz you don't like the stupid thing. But I love the car and I can pay it off and all of my other debts with the money I have in savings and the money I can earn in using the debt snowball during a 2-year period of time, then keep the car. I'm fine with that. >> Yeah.

And the only exception would be the IRS. That's the only thing that jumps to the top of the list.

>> child support. >> Child support. Yeah. Anything like that goes to the front of the list cuz they're going to come get it anyway. That's right. >> support, you take care of babies before you do any of this. Shut up. But the You know, the IRS [music] is going to get their their pound of flesh, so you need to put them at the front and get rid of them as soon as possible. They have collection abilities nobody else has. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host.

Sarah is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um actually, I have a question about uh

debt and merging everything. I'm a newlywed. Um me and my husband recently got married in December 12th, 2024.

And I didn't know that he wasn't as

financially responsible as I thought. Um

he has, I guess, been more secretive about his debt. I'm a bit more like open

about it. And he wants to merge accounts, but I'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied um to me about certain debts. And I'm working on now using like your plan to get myself out of debt because I bought a home uh before we got married back in 2023. I have a car I'm working on paying off, which is supposed to be paid off uh later maybe next year.

Um and a couple other few debts, but he has many more that I'm I wasn't aware of and some that I think he's secretive about still. We're going to marriage counseling, but Good.

don't know how to be more comfortable with merging our accounts together and

feel like we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets. Give me an example. So, let's clarify because part of part of the solution um to the problem

is you merging accounts because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on, right? There's transparency there. So, give me an example of what that the bill was and he said it was 300, but really it was 3,000. Tell me an example of what that is.

Yeah, so when we um when he moved into

the home um out of his rental, it was that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to still finish paying off um like electricity bills, gas bills, things like that. So, I told him, "Okay, how long did you need to do that?" And it was about 2 months. Okay.

>> And so, when I was waiting for that time

frame, I had got a bill in the mail and

it was from the gas company. And when I

had asked him if he paid it, he told me yes, but when I end up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of $1,200 for a gas bill. So, it

was still >> asked him about that, what did he say?

He told me that it was paid. Um I never

informed him that I called them until a little later and he told me that he would end up taking care of it. So, I mean, when you said, "I called them and you lied, you didn't pay it," what did he say?

He just said that I did. It was It was just firm He was firm about that he did pay it until I showed him like the bill.

>> And then was he like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance?" We're just really trying to get an Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding of. >> with a liar?

Or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic?

>> Right. It's more um he he has lied about many many things. Um with It just surprises me. Yeah. In how many months?

Yeah, it's been um I guess 10 months now, but 3 months into, yes, the marriage, I found out that he was lying.

So, everything before was being deceived into separate homes while we were courting and things and then got married and now everything's in the home and I'm seeing it more vividly. Okay. So,

here's here's what I'm trying to be clear about because there is part of this to Dave's point where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money. And as they learn to get more organized, things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married and I'm wondering what the communication sounds like because of the communication is, "Did you pay the bill?" Yeah, and you're keeping it to yourself. No, he didn't. It's this much. Right?

All of that matters in this in this situation. Now, what I do think is if he's lying and it they weren't past lies, but they're lies that are continuing on now and you know about them. And if he's lying in other areas, not just money, then you do have a big problem on your hands.

Mhm. Yeah. You do You have a big enough problem you need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now because your communication style isn't good. Cuz if At my house, if I said, "Hey, Sharon, did you pay that?" She says yes and I went, "I'm going to check." And I call and they go, "No, it's not paid." I would go, "Hey, I called them. They didn't pay it." I wouldn't wait 3 days and stew about it.

I'd walk in there right then and go, [clears throat] "Hey, what's up? You said you paid this." Right. Like right then. And she would be going, "I thought I did.

I screwed up." Or "I was I was ashamed." Or "I was scared." Or whatever. But at least we get to the bottom of it right then. We don't carry it around for 4 weeks and and then label her a liar. >> Mhm.

Because >> That's a bad thing to be married to. And what I'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying now he wants to combine money, but you're the one who's afraid to. So, I'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying, "Okay, let's just put everything together, then I don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here." But you're saying now I don't feel comfortable doing that. It's too late.

You're married. Right. Are you worried >> Yeah. What can he do?

What do you think he's going to do if you combine finances?

I think he's going to spend more because I'm uh like What is the term people use?

Like the breadwinner. So, I make majority of the funds. He helps pay like

since we didn't have a merged account, he would just What What What does he make? What does he make?

Uh that's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So, he works for a cable company and it's supposed to be quote unquote $12 an hour, but they have a point system. So, week to week, sometimes he says he makes $500.

Um sometimes it's only 300 and he doesn't >> direct deposited into your joint account then if you combine finances? Is it, "Hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account, not you get paid and then put money into a merged account. All direct deposits go into the same account. That's how it works.

And that's the only way we're doing this. >> right. Then we know what he's making.

>> Mhm. And what do you make? >> discussion. That's the question.

Um so, I make uh 62,000 and some change a

year. Um And how long did y'all date before you got married 3 months ago?

Uh it was um

2 years, about 2 years.

>> And how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last 3 months?

Uh we've been going consistently

it's like once every 3 weeks and now he's going one-on-one with the counselor and I go one-on-one with a woman counselor. Okay. Well, that's good that you're doing that.

Um And [clears throat] at some point we have to combine that process, too.

>> Mhm. All right. Um >> he's a bit of a spender as well, so it kind of makes me That's I guess that's where it gets me a little nervous >> the thing. Here's the thing, okay?

If you put all of your money into one account >> Mhm.

If he does otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract now with his wife. And then then we got a problem there.

That's a different kind of problem.

Okay? But you're not solving a spender by staying separate from them.

>> Mhm. Combining is the only way to get transparency and accountability on where

every dollar is going.

And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. Yeah. You have contempt all in your language. >> Exactly. You're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject. And that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, the primary reason [music] people get divorced when contempt rolls in. So, you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make it.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host. 888-825-5225. [music]

Anna is in Austin, Texas. Hi Anna, how

are you? Hi Dave, I'm good. How are you?

[clears throat] Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I received this weekend I received some devastating news that my husband was scammed out of our his almost his entire 401k. Ooh. And um

now it's tax time and um we're going to have to pay taxes on it.

So, we have no more retirement and our savings is going to be wiped out.

And um

I don't know where to begin from here.

What did he How did he get scammed? What did you put it in?

It was a crypto. Crypto?

>> It was a Yes. How much?

>> And it was

270,000.

270,000?

Yes, sir. Oof.

And there's there's a little bit of a backstory. I'm not making excuses for him, but there's a little bit of a backstory as to why he felt financially strapped that he felt he needed to do this to secure a financial our our financial future.

Um How old How old are y'all?

I'm 57, he's 58.

Um we have no debt.

We paid off our home in February of 2022.

What's your household What's your household income?

He Right now I He right now he makes approximately 98,000 Mhm. annually and

I I'm currently not working. I um

had to quit my job in January of 2023 because um I was diagnosed with cancer and

the medication that I'm on just causes me a lot of side effects that we chose it's better for me to stay home cuz because we could afford it. Mhm.

Obviously, we have no debt again and um

he was I think he He was looking into securing our future so that he may be able to retire early.

He started um doing some research as to how to invest money. He knows nothing about He's not He's not educated in that, so Yeah, your your voice is fairly muffled.

Speak directly into your phone, please.

Okay. There you go. >> Um he's not Okay.

He's not um No, he's obviously even if

he is educated, he's not wise. Mhm. And he got desperate, it sounded like.

>> He He did and the way When I try to get desperate, I usually get stupid.

And that's what it was and oh So, that happened in January 2024.

And in about March or April, he came up to me and told me that um that he had invested a little bit of money and I was like, okay. Um and he says and he showed

me that it was he showed me that the app and he showed me that the money was I mean, we had made it made about 3 or 400,000.

And I said, okay, well, how much did you invest? And he told me at that time he

said 30,000. I said, where did you get the money from cuz I take care of all the banking. And he said that he pulled it out of the 401k.

And I said, okay, no mistake.

You know, we'll get we'll get through this. I found a temporary job. I made enough money to cover the taxes. I only made I I calculated we probably owe about 6,000

um for taxes. I said, okay, great. Well, I'll take care of it and I'll get a permanent job so it won't affect our savings.

And now that it's tax time, I kept looking for the the form that comes in, the 1099-R, I believe, and he kept making

excuses as to why he hasn't gotten he had we hadn't received it.

So, I kind of had a feeling that it was worse than what I knew and uh that it was worse than what he had told me and this weekend he gave me the paper and it was 270,000.

So, now we will have to And now it's worth zero, of course.

And yes, well, he I looked at it last night and there was about 16,000 in it right now, but Was it really a scam or did he just lose? Like did he get scammed by a scammer or he invested the money and he lost the investment? No, it was an an actual scammer. I had demanded

that I back when he told me it was 30,000, I demanded to know where he sent it, how he sent it. I I wanted to know everything and apparently it was a company in Hong Kong and um I I looked at the address and it's it's it's in the slums of Hong Kong. I'm like, why didn't you do the research before?

Well, the thing is now, he said that it was a the 200 I'm like, how can you how can it go from 30,000 to 270,000?

And he said it was about the same time it he invested here, you know, in a couple different >> Okay, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. >> Yes, sir. Does he now own that this is stupid or is he still defending?

No. No, he owns it. He's been living with us for the past year and it's

I mean, he had he's Well, he was lying about it 20 minutes ago. >> Yeah, you said he just came clean with it.

Yeah, he he just came clean with it, but he was living with that lie for the for the past year. >> he's now saying out loud I completely screwed this up.

Yes, he has. >> That's important because otherwise he's going to do it again.

Right. And he's like he I I'm prepared

to work till I'm 70. I mean Yeah, he might as well. good job right now. And yeah. It's not a choice at this point.

Belly up, buddy.

How's your How's your health? Are you improving?

It's getting there. I I'm on a clinical trial. Okay. Um and so I'm I'm hoping

that this will be something that will, you know, give me more time and um I feel pretty good except you know, just the usual side effects. I mean, not the usual, but the side effects of the medication. But thank you. I'm I'm happy that, you know, every day is a good day and I'm not going to let this bring me down, but it it does scare me for our future And the good news is you have no payments.

And so what he needs to do is max out his 401k and you all need to max out your Roth IRAs.

And um you need to tell him that if he

makes any transactions without the two of you being in agreement ever again, that that will be the last time he'll do so as your husband.

Absolutely. He needs to understand that this has extreme consequences.

Because he not only did something stupid, he lied about it.

At length, deceived, created a web, a

full scenario of lies.

That concerns me actually more than his stupidity.

Correct. And so um you know, that's a

big deal. So yeah, you guys can catch up. I mean, you can make 100, 120 and you can max out your 401ks and Roth's max out your Roth's and work another 10 years, 12 years and you will have enough of an nest egg to retire on if you don't do this again.

But as soon as he gets desperate and tries to pull off a fast one, that's when you get messed over. And so ouch, I'm so sorry, honey, with everything you're facing. It's just not fair.

Wow. I Guys, let me give you a couple principles on that. There's a guy who scammed a bunch of people and wrote a book from jail in the 70s. The book he wrote about himself was Con Man or Saint.

Obviously, he thought he was a saint, but he was in jail, so he was a con man. Okay? But there was a I read that book in the in the early 80s and as a teenager, early 20s.

someone unless they are afraid or greedy.

This guy was afraid. Mhm. His wife had cancer. He's trying to get a bunch of money so that he cannot have to work and take care of her. Yeah. And he got desperate based on fear and he said that set him up in the emotional category to be conned.

The other crypto people that get conned are the greedy ones. They're trying to make double your money in 20 minutes because I'm the cool kid and I'm the smart one and I grew up with a cell phone in my hand, a smart phone in my hand, so I know everything about digital. No, you don't.

You're a greedy fool and you're going to lose your butt in crypto also.

The second thing you cannot you can do is who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above ruby rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. If you have to hide the investment or the financial move from your spouse, warning

warning warning, you're screwing up.

I have no [music] lack of gain because Sharon and I talk about it before we do it. And it keeps me on the rails.

This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

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Check it out. South Dakota's calling.

Sarah's with us. Hi, Sarah.

Hey, how are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

Well, see, just have a quick question.

So um my husband and I got a term life insurance policy through Zander when our son was first born. Mhm. Um but that was 15 years ago and um since then life has shifted a little bit. Um we are still making progress with our debt snowball.

Um we're actually planning to pay off our last debt um by um hopefully February. Um

however, we're not there yet. Um but

over the years our income has increased quite quite a bit. So when we were first married, we were making about 70 combined. Now we're making about 180.

Uh so my question is um Why has it taken

you 15 years to get out of debt?

Well, you know, maybe we're not so gazelle intense. >> Like not at all. Okay. Right. Right.

But we're getting there now.

Um so we're getting really close and we >> So you Every that you still have a mortgage and you still have what else?

Uh we have 8,000 on my student loan and

we've got our mortgage and that is all we have left. >> Wow. So what's the question today?

So the question today, we are curious, do we need to consider increasing our life insurance through Zander um given that our income has gone up?

Um I know their recommendation is like 10 to 12% That's right.

your overall income. Or because we're so close to being debt free, do we

not need to take that approach cuz ultimately we'll be self-funded through insurance. No, you need to extend because self being self-insured would denote that you've got a massive nest egg of wealth that can cover you when

those situations arise and you don't have that just yet. If you keep going with intensity, you will. But if you play the next 15 years like you've paid the played this last 15 years, You're still going to be in debt. Mhm.

You'll still have a mortgage.

Well, we are definitely not looking to

do that. We're definitely looking to get to tackle that mortgage as soon as the student loan's paid off. So everything >> When you have enough money When you have enough money in investments that the income off of the investments will support you if he dies,

then you're self-insured.

You're not there.

We want you to be okay if something happens to him.

And you're not there.

Okay? Um and we want him to be okay if something happens to you and make sure the kiddos are fed and so forth. And that would be that, you know, and so if you had a million dollars and it was producing uh 10% that'd be 100,000

dollars.

Mhm. Okay? And that's not even that won't even take care of you now cuz you're making 180.

And so you'd need about 2 million dollars in investments right now and zero debt in order to be self-insured equal to, you know, having the right amount of life insurance. So no, yeah, you need to increase your life insurance and buy new policies.

Yeah, if your 15-year fixed policy is running out, buy buy new ones. Yeah. And um

Yeah, and here's the thing, if if you do get intense, um if that did happen and you get out of debt and you look up and there's a million or two million dollars in investments and zero debt, you can cancel the life insurance.

You don't have to keep paying it. You can just call them and cancel it.

But um if you're not if you don't smoke, folks, and you're not overweight, life insurance don't cost anything.

It's very inexpensive.

>> Very. So 15-year level, 15 to 20-year level

fixed rate. And the idea is that during

that 15 years, you pay off your mortgage and >> And get out of debt. And you build up some investments. And the kids grow up and leave >> That's right. >> during that 15 to 20 years. And so we don't have kiddos to take care of, we've got a pile of money, and you you work your way into a net worth that allows you to be self-insured. >> And so, but you guys have been slow,

so you get to re-up your life insurance.

And uh and then you can always drop it later, but for right now you're not ready. It's a good question. Yeah.

Felix is in Los Angeles. Hi Felix, how are you?

Hi Dave. Uh thank you so much for the opportunity uh to be on the show. Sure.

Um I'm calling today to get more to get your advice on my current living situation. Uh I work for a government uh utilities agency in Los Angeles as a engineer.

Uh I currently live in downtown LA. Uh

I'm paying about $3,000 in rent per

month. And uh I just turned 30 this

year. And I watch your show, I hear, you know, your advice about ownership and owning a home someday. Mhm. And that's

uh a goal for mine for my for my life as well. And I wanted to get your thoughts on, you know, renewing uh my lease which expires uh this month

or going back home to stay with my parents. Mhm. Well, how much do you bring home every month?

Uh so after tax, I bring home about

um somewhere between $6,000 and $6,500.

So >> Um your what you're telling me is your rent's 50% of your take home.

Yes. Uh it's Yes, it's around that. Uh

if you include utilities and, you know, >> Yeah, I know it. >> Yeah. >> So I think you know there's there's one

of two things that can happen here. You can either figure out a way to bust free and suddenly make $20,000,

you know, a month or you can look for some place that's far less expensive for

rent. What would you do if you moved, you know, away and moved towards where your family is? What would you do for a living? >> [sighs] >> Uh well, I would still be an engineer.

Um I my my my my family stays in uh

Fontana, which is about maybe uh 50 miles away from Los Angeles. So I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would I would >> Uh yes, I have a bachelor's in civil engineering and I have a master's in environmental engineering. And you make $70,000 a year?

Well, that's that's No, I make around $105,000 a year. >> And how long you've been out of school?

Uh I graduated with my master's in 2023

and shortly after is when I moved to LA and got my my job in Los Angeles. Yeah, I mean you're living in one of the most expensive places in the country.

So that there is always going to be a limit because of that.

So I I If I were in your shoes, yeah, I'd be looking for other place. Now Fontana that you mentioned, I mean have you priced it out? What's the difference? What could Where could you Could you get a one bedroom and what would it cost? Would it get you to the 25% range?

Uh well, in in LA, um it's it's it's very

difficult to to find a place to stay.

Um I'm talking about Fontana like you said.

I'll I'll be staying with my parents.

Okay, so Felix, here's the thing.

What you want Staying with your parents is not your is not your play. >> Mhm. Because it doesn't take you to the future you want. You've said no you've said nothing about where you want to be in 20 years, in 10 years, and and how

staying with your parents is going to get you there. All we're doing solving the immediate problem by going backwards. So no, I'm not going to do that. If I'm you, I'm looking for a new job that pays 150,000 in a market where the rent is half of what it is in LA.

And you make a move. If for your career, you're a single guy and you go out there and make some money and get your cost of housing down because it If you're working for a utility, your bumps, your increases in pay are going to be moderate to poor.

Yeah, it's a it's a government it's a government it's a government job. So Yeah, it's going to be moderate to poor.

The pay is already low and it's not going to get better.

It you're going to get cost of living bumps and nothing else. And so as an engineer, you can go out there and make twice what you're making now in an area that costs half what it costs to live in LA. And that puts you in a position to build a life, a financial life, including home ownership. But the ratio you're giving me right now, going back to your parents doesn't solve it. No. That's regressing

instead of saying, "How can I move forward?" So I'm going to be figuring out a way to move forward, either a different kind of engineer application for my master's in engineering in Los Angeles where I make a lot more or a different city or both.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for being with us, America. Luke is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi Luke, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hi. >> How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So I can can I kind of use uh I got a unique situation here. Uh 22 years old, household income of 90,000.

We inherited inherited 6 acres of land

and decided to build a house on it. We don't have any debt. We have not taken any loans on the house. I built it so far where we got the roof, walls, and siding. And uh almost done with utilities.

But uh our goal is that uh I pay for all the bills and then my wife, she pays for all the uh materials for the house. My question is should I uh take what's excess of my income after

bills and throw it towards the house or put it towards retirement?

Okay, you're trying to build a house out of your pocket and so far you have, but you and your wife have separate finances.

Uh well, we work together in finances, but >> Not really. Not really. You got you you've delegated part of it to her and part of it to you. You don't have one pile. So you need one pile of money.

Her money, your money is our money. One big pile. Out of that pile, what is our first goal? I would assume it's to finish the house, isn't it?

Yes, sir. So what does it take to finish the house money-wise? How much money?

We're looking at probably about 10 grand left. We got drywall, insulation, and paint. Okay. How long if you pile all your money, you and your wife, our money in one pile, how long does it take you to come up with 10 grand?

Uh well, >> [snorts] >> probably a month or two.

Yeah. Okay. So let's finish the house.

And then then you need to make sure you have an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then take 15% of your

household income, our income, and start that towards retirement. That's baby step four. But you're going to be living in a paid-for house. That's nice. You got this acreage and you built the house. You She got a lot of sweat in it and you're going to have a bunch of equity, right?

Oh, yeah, for sure. >> What's this finished product going to be worth, acreage and house total?

We're hoping for 250. Good. Very cool.

And you said you're 26?

I'm 22. 22? >> Wow. >> Okay, wow. And your household income, if we put both of your money in one pile, is how much a year?

90,000.

How much? 90,000. 90,000. That's the two of you combined. Okay, good. I make 62, she makes 28.

Okay, cool. Perfect. Yeah, so let's take 15% of 90,000 after we get the emergency fund in place and you're sitting on $250,000 house, you're going to be millionaires before you're 30. Woo.

That's exciting. Isn't that fun? Mhm. I hope they take your advice and put their money in one pile.

Well, that's the thing. Yeah, so um there's Yeah. There's just so much data that says when you do that that you're higher probability of winning at marriage, winning at relationship, winning at everything. Um and let's circle back and say this.

Nothing to do with Luke's call, but just this cuz we get so much bull crap on social media about telling people to put their money together. Um you should be independent. No, you shouldn't be independent if you're married. That's a dumb butt idea. This is how your marriage doesn't work.

Because you're so strung out on you that you're worthless as a spouse.

So that that's the problem. So no, you don't need to be independent. You need to be one. The preacher said and now you are one.

One. Uno.

Unity. All in one.

And so if we know, and we do know that the data tells us in America today, the number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems. The number one solution to that is learning to dream together and put our money together and handle our problems and our

challenges and our opportunities and our dreams together. That is the solution where you don't have money problems cause divorce. If we have the solution to the number one cause of divorce, why are you arguing with us?

That's just dumb.

>> [laughter] >> Because people out there are dumb and we will always have a show for that reason.

So there it is. Not all people out there are dumb, but enough of them are dumb, but we will always have this show. Are they dumb, Dave, or do they do dumb things? >> Ignorant is different than dumb. That's good. I think that's >> I don't know how. Ignorant is I There's some things I'm ignorant of, by the way.

I don't know how. I used to know when I was a young redneck, I used to know how to work on a car. But now a car looks like a spaceship when I open the hood. >> [laughter] >> And so I can't even I don't know if I can jump the thing. I don't even get a jumper cable on it nowadays without blowing it up. So you know, I'm so but so I I don't know

how to work on that car. I doesn't mean I'm dumb. It means I'm ignorant. I don't know how to do that. But then don't argue with experts when you're ignorant.

Cuz it makes you look dumb.

>> [laughter] >> I'll take that, Dave. I'll take that.

Get holy.

WOW.

And Luke was doing none of that. Luke's a sharp young guy. He's 22. Man, he's got it going on, doesn't he? Yeah, oh most definitely. I don't even I was nowhere near that. So Yeah, >> [laughter] >> I don't even want to talk about it.

Jason was in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hi, Jason. How are you?

Hey guys, how are y'all? Can y'all hear me okay? Yes. What's up?

Good. Good. Hey, I just had a quick question for you. I'll give you a quick quick rundown on my situation. I'm trying to decide if I should sell my house.

I live about an hour outside of the Carolina metros right now and I'm I'm planning to make a move this summer.

Um I'm self-employed. I sell real estate and so in my new market I'm going to have to um kind of start from the ground up. Um I'm near the end of baby step two. Um if this move wasn't happening I'd be done probably by June or July, maybe August. Um The flip side uh so the question is basically >> you going to live when you move?

I'm going to rent. Okay.

And so your question is whether to keep your house or not?

Yeah, uh so I'm in a unique position Yeah, I bought >> You don't need to be a renter and be a landlord. That's bass-ackwards.

That was risky, Dave.

That was very risky.

>> what I needed to know. >> Yeah, I mean really, think about it. That's backwards. You don't want to do that.

So no, you need to um get get you know, get You're in the real estate business. You're going to get plenty of opportunities to own a property and live in a house that you pay cash for and or buy it and then get it paid off as quick as you can. Hanging onto this boat anchor that represents your former life out in the burbs when you're moving into the metro and having to deal with that while you're trying to learn to sell real estate and trying to get your business moving, nah.

Okay. Yeah. That's where my mind was and I thought that was right. I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, you're you're right on track, man. You're right on track. So there you go. Here's the thing. It's interesting um

real estate is such an emotional topic because it it has these two strange elements to it. Strange element number one is it is an excellent way

to build wealth when you do it right as a part of your long-term plan. Right.

That give then gets confused with it's always smart no matter what. That's a good point, Dave. And it's not.

Sometimes real estate doing a real estate deal in the wrong situation in your life could be not you know, in Jason's it's just it's just a bad idea, but in other people's it's even way over into the stupid zone. Yeah, for sure. >> And so real estate is it's weird. It it is because it's a blessing when you do it right, that gives everybody permission to do it even wrong and it becomes a curse.

Yeah. And I think also the other thing that I think we're fighting now is so many people had properties that they locked in at a better interest rate and so then when life moves them they feel like, yeah, it's a good deal, maybe I shouldn't get rid of it even though I'm moving, I should keep it.

>> like because real estate is good >> Mhm. I can't everything I do with it is going to be smart. >> Right, it just falls in line. >> like, no, it's not going to be smart.

You you know, it's not smart. The only way that you know, no, there's a good time to cut real estate loose. Mhm. There's a good time for it to not be there.

And buying buying real estate you can't afford, buying a house you can't afford. We had that earlier in the hour.

That's cool. But we got to sell the house we bought a house we can't afford. So it's not a blessing anymore. It's a curse. It's a problem.

>> Yes. So doing it wrong or keeping it wrong or because real estate's good, it's not always good. Yeah. Because and it's not that real estate is actually real estate is always good. It's the life situation you're in doesn't match up with owning real estate right then. Yeah. And so it's not always good to keep your old house and rent it. Matter of fact it seldom is. Very seldom. This is the

Ramsey show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Alyssa is with us in Chicago. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

My question is how much is too much to spend on a wedding?

Okay. So that >> How much are you thinking about spending?

60,000. Ooh. Nice wedding. Good. Okay.

Do you have 60,000?

Uh so we're actively saving to get to We

have about half right now. So by next September when the wedding would be we would have that. So mom and dad aren't chipping in. That's you and him paying for it.

We are going with the intention that we're paying for it. They've briefly mentioned that they might contribute, but no hard numbers have been given or anything like that. Okay. So you're assuming it's all on you. So what do you make? >> Yeah.

I make 90 before What's he make?

>> commission. 190. Cool. Do you guys have any debt?

No debt. Wow. It's not too much.

It's not too much. Okay. No, not if you pay cash. That's exciting. >> Okay. You You want to know how I did that?

Yes. Here's fun. Okay. Average household income in America right now is about $75,000.

The average wedding in America is about $36,000.

It's about half of the average income.

So if you spend more than half your annual income on your wedding and if you're paying for all of it which it sounds like you are. Okay.

Um then you're spending too much on a wedding cuz you're more than half the average. Now, here's the thing to keep in mind. Average kind of sucks in America. We don't necessarily want to be average, but but you're below 50% of

your your uh way below 50% of your $270,000

income.

And so you're you're you're as on a ratio basis you are

half of the national average.

Which is half. >> [laughter] >> Weird way to say that, but yeah. So I mean the national average would put if you if you spent 50% of your all's income it'd be 135.

>> So you're well below what the average person is doing. >> half of that at 60. And so you're you're very conservative as a ratio.

But now for somebody that makes 100 grand it sounds like that you know,

Alyssa's lost her mind. You know, but that's what people say that don't have any money and and you've got some money.

So Yeah, when you have more money you can spend more of it. Without it being a problem. >> Yeah. So And if that doesn't include the honeymoon and we added I don't know, 10

or 15 on top of that it would still be okay. >> about the wedding. Honeymoon's a different different story. >> think that'd be fine. And the engagement ring is another story. Okay. But um Yeah, that's a good differential though when we're talk about talking about the wedding. There are those three components. There's the rings, then there's the actual party and then there's your honeymoon. >> What do y'all do for a living?

I do medical sales and he does product

management. Cool. Okay. Well, he's going to really like this last suggestion. We've done three weddings at the Ramsey's. I've got three kids that are all married and been married many many years. Okay. And Ramsey's we like a big party. We like to celebrate stuff like that. And so

we we threw major parties on each of these weddings. It was a lot of fun.

But we learned and that and we did it from the first one. We introduced this idea that for your fiance will love me,

your wedding is a project.

So let's lay out a budget. Yeah. In detail. If we're going to spend 60, how much of that's the dress? How much of that's the reception? How much of that's the videographer? How much of that's the preacher? How much is the venue?

And you lay out a budget. And then guess what? You stick to the budget.

>> would be my word of wise for you, Alyssa, cuz when you when you hear what Dave said, which is Yeah, which is technically you could be spending more if you were being quote average. So for you, the hard part is going to say, even though we could spend more, we're going to stick to what we said in the beginning of 60,000.

>> Yeah, I would pretend like that that you work for someone and your job was to manage a $60,000 budget and bring the event in on budget.

On schedule.

It cuz you're managing a project. It's an event project. I mean, we manage events here. It's what it is. And so this is what >> if you went over someone else's budget.

>> you if you work for somebody, you get fired if you screwed it up, right? So that just treat it like it's serious business and and I know that it doesn't very romantic, but people use romance as a way to do a lot of stupid butt stuff. So no, we're not doing that. So no, just lay it out exactly and you say this is and you can pull up some percentages.

There's some good guidelines online for how much to spend on the dress.

Like how many people you think I mean, 60,000 you're thinking about inviting a decent number of people, aren't you?

It's not huge. So we've already booked the venue and we're going through that process, but I'm more of the saver and he's more of the spender. And so thinking of kind of the rough estimate that we put together with all the, you know, videographer, photographer and all that, it it just sounds like a lot of money.

So I Yeah, I would but here's the thing.

You you'll get >> and not You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean when I say scope creep?

Yes. >> Yeah, this project this thing will creep up and the 60 will turn into 80. Mhm. If you do not if you do not line item this and no rough estimates is freaking what we're going to do.

And then when you're meeting with the caterer and they go, well, we can add that. Well, no. No, this is all we got. This is what we're doing.

And well, you know, we could spend, you know, freaking $85,000 on flowers. Who's getting married here? Princess Di? I mean, seriously.

So, you know, you we're going to go in the field, pick some wildflowers so that we we stay on budget.

>> Well, if nothing else, plan for 54, so at least you've got 10%

set aside just as contingency. Oh.

>> That's what I'd do. A little slush fund in the line up. >> just in case. >> Yeah, a little just in case fund. I'd have something in there for that. I don't know if I get away with that, but wow. Wow.

Yeah, that's exactly how I would do it. And Alyssa, I think you're approaching it very wisely.

You're not counting on the people who have been vague about their possible input. That way you're not under their control. Matter of fact, whatever they come forth with, I'd probably just use that for the honeymoon. I just lock this baby down on 60. And just go, we're doing it. And you and the fiance sit down, agree to that, go this is a project like you manage at work. We're going to manage this. We're going to come in on budget. We're going to get the details out because there's always something that you can go higher.

You can always go one bigger, one better on everything. >> the extra large shrimp instead of the large shrimp. What was the thing on Father [laughter] of the Bride? Cheaper chicken.

What's the cheaper chicken? Yeah. You get ice sculptures. Yeah, that's it.

And so yeah, you can do it and you can do that on a $10,000 budget. You can do it on a $60,000 budget. You can do it on whatever. You just manage the budget.

>> That's right. >> This is what we're doing. And so it's just we're going to have to get super creative if we're going to do this for 7,800 bucks. We had a lady here on the team that got married and had a really nice little wedding for 7,000 bucks and she just slam you know, they they were trying to get out of debt and that's what they were going to spend and it was it was really very nice.

Can I tell you the Okay, Sam and I paid for our wedding out of pocket. Oh, it was like 10,000.

It was a little bit more. But I my biggest regret to this day and it was in the name of doing it debt free. We didn't have an open bar.

No open bar. That's your that's your regret that you didn't booze up everybody else for free?

>> we were on a yacht. We were just made sense. You should have had There should have been some drinks on board and there wasn't. >> you didn't have a oh a There was no open bar. >> no bar? No. >> No what not they couldn't even pay?

No. Open bar would be like you paid.

>> No. Well, I felt it was tacky to have people pay, so there just was no bar. Just no. Oh, well, okay. I'll go with that. Okay, but yeah. >> Listen, it was a mistake. That's okay.

You know what? They don't remember it.

You're the only one that does. >> so. I don't know about that, but >> Sam doesn't EVEN REMEMBER IT. >> [laughter]

[music]

[music] >> JADE WARSHAW, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. I am Dave Ramsey, your host.

Katrina is with us in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Katrina. How are you?

Hi, I'm fantastic. Thank you so much for asking. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

All right. So I am going through a divorce and it's really hurting me financially.

So I'm wondering if I should take money out of my business account that I'm actually trying to sell because of the divorce and use some of that

money to buy things for my primary job.

So >> primary job? I am a school teacher and tomorrow I go back to school and the kids come back next Tuesday.

But I need to buy some supplies for the students to come back to school.

Um for >> they don't furnish you supplies for the classroom like they should. Well, they give me >> Which would make you every school teacher in America. Well, yeah, thank you. They give me $5 a student, but I've already spent that. I bought glue sticks and colored pencils and pencil pouches for the students and and So what are you talking about spending?

I need paper, hand sanitizers, folders

and journals. What are you talking about spending?

Um I'm thinking I need about $200. What

type of business do you have? What's the nature of it? >> So So in yeah, in the evenings I run an escape room.

Um but I'm I have to sell it according to the divorce decree. I have to sell it

so I could pay um back some of the equity that I owe to my soon-to-be ex-husband.

>> take a you take you take a payroll from the business? Um I don't. It doesn't make enough money. So I just I run it um

and and then like it pays for everything. >> Okay, if $200 changes your life, you have other problems. >> Mhm. Well, right now I'm at I just I'm I'm barely

finished baby step number one. I've been using your EveryDollar app.

>> have to choose between you eating and buying your children hand sanitizer, you eat.

Okay, I get that.

>> Okay. And so if you you know, if you're down to nothing, if you have no money and $200 is a huge amount to you, where

you get it from doesn't matter. It's where you spend it that matters. You don't have the option to be this generous to these students. Contact a local church and ask them to help you with they've got some journals laying around and maybe they've got some hand sanitizer they can give you from the children's ministry and help you fund this, help you get the thing set up without you spending the $200 at Target

and you know, let's go that route cuz it sounds like this $200 is a lot of money to you. >> Yeah. And you've got you need to work on the other side of that and that's the overall income. I think I'm tutoring instead of running a a game room. >> room, yeah. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi if private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see any way out, you need Y Refi. That's Y the

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Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Nora in Pennsylvania. She says, I've been married for almost 30 years and my husband and I have adult children. My husband runs his mother's family business. He will inherit the business when she passes, but he says that the business is not going to be mine if anything happens to him.

He says his will is going to state that our children will get the business and that he will not be providing for me.

Oof. I've explained to him how upsetting this is and that I shouldn't have to go to my children for help when it is his responsibility to care for me. I live on a fixed income uh my adult life as a stay-at-home mom.

What can I do to protect myself legally?

Wow. >> You can't.

So you have a you have a marriage problem. My goodness. You don't have a legal problem.

You're married to a jerk.

Um and that's a problem.

Yeah, I thought this question was going in one direction. And then it turned left and went off into the ditch.

>> did. Yeah. So, honey, you need to go see a marriage counselor and he's not going to go with you cuz he's right about everything. Um he doesn't need any help if you ask him. And of course, everybody else listening to this knows he's the one that needs the help, but you need to go to the marriage counselor and the marriage counselor is going to explain to you that your marriage is over

if you don't get some serious work done

on it. Woo. That rattling you're hearing under the hood means the engine's about to blow, kiddo.

And um this does not describe a loving

home where the husband is gentle, kind, and serves his wife.

I didn't hear anything like that in here. >> No. No. So sad.

Nora, I'm sorry.

But yeah, you need to go see a marriage counselor today. Tell tell him that he ought to go with you, but he won't. And then the marriage counselor will give you words to speak to him that lead to either him coming to the table or the end of your marriage. You can't go forward with this.

And uh after 30 years, he still chooses his mommy? Wow.

After 30 years, he's still a mama's boy.

Old men that are mama's boy are kind of pitiful. >> Uh that's the worst. Mama's boys are pitiful, period, after 4 years old. But

old men mama's boys, seriously pitiful.

Woo. And he's going to be one even after she's gone. >> means this guy is in his 50s.

>> Yeah. He's an old man mama's boy.

You can title the thumbnail on YouTube Old Man Mama's Boy. There you go. I thought she was going to say something I you know, as I was reading it, I thought, okay, this is a his mom's family business. It's going to pass to the children. Maybe she didn't want to run the business. You know what I mean? Cuz there's part of that where it's like I don't want this responsibility, but that took a hard left turn.

Woo, gracious.

Yeah.

Yeah, mamas don't let your boys become

Leave in Cleave.

Yeah, choose carefully, my darling.

Choose carefully.

Choose a man who loves his mother from a distance.

This is right.

Mama, I love you. Over there.

Listen, >> [laughter] >> I say that, but when the day comes when my son gets old enough where he has to go over there, I'm going to be sad.

>> I think it's one of the hardest child developmental things I've ever witnessed. As we raised kids, girls separate from their mom, but boys

when boys stay right there until they separate. When they separate, it's brutal. And it usually comes somewhere around 16 or 17 years old for people that become men. Oh, man. >> But boys who are mama's boy at 50, they never did cut the cord. And so, they're still tugging on her apron strings.

Mommy, mommy, mommy, I want the business. Mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, would you take care of mommy? Mommy, I want to make sure you love me, mommy.

Oh, brother, [laughter] I think I'm going to puke. Oh, gosh.

Uh No, I want my son >> manhood crisis in this country, for sure. Wow. I mean, what this is not masculinity. It's not toxic masculinity.

It's just a child. >> and a controlling child. A very

controlling jerk of a child.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Goodness gracious. After 30 years

>> Nora's husband, if you happen to end up listening to this, if you're not who she says she you are,

you need to understand how screwed up your marriage is that your wife wrote this letter to a nationally syndicated show that has hundreds of millions of

people download it every month.

So, if you're not this and she sent this in, you got stuff going on, dude. So, you still deserve butt butt tracks over your butt. So, we threw you right in front of the bus still. That's what happened. Maybe he'll write in a letter next. >> I hope so. I wish you would just come on the air and let us talk to him. How fun would that be? That would be compelling podcast material.

Oh, man.

Wow. Ouch. Yeah, that's This is a This >> Here's what's interesting.

The number one thing that will keep you from building wealth >> [music] >> is screwed up relationships. >> Bingo. That's so true. When you can't handle screwed up relationships and put reasonable, gentle, kind, [music] strong boundaries in place and keep the screwed up people at a distance and the right people up close and you can't [music] function with other humans, you're going to struggle building wealth. Period.

This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

>> Buying a house in this weird real estate market is weird. Selling a house in this weird real estate market is weird.

If you want to do it right, you really need a pro in your corner. Somebody that does a lot of transactions, not your Aunt Sally who got her license 3 weeks ago. Sorry, Aunt Sally. You don't qualify to be a Ramsey endorsed local provider that's Ramsey trusted.

We love you. We hope you do good in the real estate business, but we don't want you to sell a half a million dollar house for somebody we love and you've never sold a house. You need to be doing 30 to 50 to 100 transactions, 200 transactions a year. And then you can become the possible possibly become Ramsey trusted.

Teddy is in Traverse City, Michigan. Hi, Teddy, how are you?

I'm doing great, Dave. What a pleasure to speak to you today. You too, man.

What's up?

Well, I've been in debt most of my whole life between cars and I bought my wife and I bought a house. I am self-employed. Um my wife is retired after 32 years.

Um I make about $70,000 a year in salary. Um I have $1,400 a month in rental income from a home that we have purchased and paid off.

Um my wife makes about $400 a week in side hustle and she draws $1,500 a month

from her 401k.

Uh last year we got a HELOC loan for a

home addition. So, I still owe about $100,000 on that. I owe $20,000 on the

mortgage on the house we're living in now that we put the addition on, as well as $20,000 on a car.

Um we got about $1.1 million in retirement and of that, 210,000 is liquid investments. So, my question is, we've been working the debt snowball, but do I sell some of my investments and pay off this debt and just get it over with? Yep.

Yep. How old are you?

I'm 62 and my wife is 65. Yes.

If you take what you said, 1.2 and we turn it into one and you're 100% debt free, I'll take it.

I mean, you said you had you had 210,000 that was liquid.

I do. You can do it with It's not tied up in retirement. That's liquid. Oh, it's not retirement at all. So, you're not even going to have taxes on it. >> Yeah, I know. Well, maybe maybe a little gain on it. It may have been sitting there gaining, but but it's not might have a little capital gain. But so, it's not even going to be a 200 hit. It's uh be a 100 150 hit. Whatever. But either way, um you're 100% debt free. Now, that only works, Teddy, if you stop borrowing money.

Oh, I'm Yeah, I'm sorry, America. I've been in you know, bought a car. I bought to buy cars. >> I know. >> I'm real frugal. I'm real frugal. No, you're not. You're 66 with a stupid car payment.

Isn't that the truth? >> You're a millionaire with a car payment.

Yes, yes, that's right. >> Don't do that.

No, sir.

>> [laughter] >> All right, brother. Hey, seriously, if you go pay all this off and then run up another debt, you're just going to eat your nest egg up.

I can't wait to come and stand on the stage. You've inspired me. >> I love it, brother. I love it. You're a good man. Congratulations on being a millionaire. Good. Very cool.

Very cool. Isn't it funny how hard it is to get the culture out of our veins?

It's very I mean, it's it's yapping at us around every corner. You know? Every

Every corner. The That's why when someone's debt free house and everything, we say you're weird. Yeah.

Because you're you are. You're Weird just means unusual. It doesn't mean bad.

Well, the weird What makes you weird is you've decided to become independent in a culture that teaches you to constantly be dependent. >> Ooh. That's what the weird is.

Wow. >> Let it roll around in the brain for a while. That's strong.

That's strong. Well done.

All right, let's do it. Charlotte in Cincinnati. Hey, Charlotte, how are you?

Hey, good afternoon, Dave and crew.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I Sure. thoroughly enjoyed listening to your program. My question is um my just a tiny bit of my back story, my husband passed away in 2012 and as a

result of insurance money coming in, we were able to get debt free, my daughter and I, and we have stayed debt free, thank God.

And she just finished her freshman year in college. We have a tax free 529 plan.

Projected >> a what 529?

It's the what's called a cafeteria 529 plan but it's got a lot >> I didn't hear I didn't hear the word. Okay, cafeteria. Okay, I got you. All right, good. That's a good plan. >> So, um, so yeah, so we've got our college paid for as far as that's concerned. Um, but

um, unfortunately, the way that it's grown, there's a projectory uh, being like an $80,000 surplus Mhm.

at the at the end. Um, it's and I found

out that I could only put $35,000 in a Roth IRA in her name.

>> That's true. After she's 30.

Okay. >> Yeah. So, I'm a little bit concerned about like, um, can I take any of that overage? I mean,

>> So, how much is in the 529 total?

There's probably right now $189,000.

Okay, and how much did you put in and how much is growth?

Well, that's just that like it I only I think at the time I only put in like, I don't know, $85,000. Okay, she got a 100% growth. You got 100% growth.

>> Yeah. And of that 80's going to be if it keeps growing, it is even going to be more and so you'll have an 80 over. Is that what we're saying?

Yes. >> Is she getting any scholarships?

She is. Okay, you know you can pull that much out.

Of The equivalent of the scholarship can be pulled out each year.

No tax.

Equivalent to the scholarship. Okay.

>> So, she gets a $10,000 scholarship, pull $10,000 out. >> Mhm. That's actually an incentive to get more scholarships. Yeah.

Okay, cuz I I guess my tax preparer, he doesn't know about that. Is there any place that you could direct me as to where I could find good solid information about this kind of stuff?

>> A different tax preparer cuz that's pretty standard information.

I'm not even good at taxes and I know it.

So, yeah. Um, you know, if that's if that's one of our ELP's, I'm sorry but if it's not, check one of our endorsed local providers for taxes in your area and get a second opinion on it. But, you're allowed to pull the equivalent of scholarships out, athletic, academic, whatever the basis for the scholarship is, um, every year and there's zero tax on

it. So, she gets a scholarship, pull that much out. Do you know how much she got in scholarships?

Like last year, I mean, it was I don't know, it was around 10,000, I think. >> Yeah, okay. All right. That's not going to alleviate the problem completely cuz if it's times four, it's only 40,000, right? And um, and she's 80 over so you're going to have another 40 and I really wouldn't screw around with the out Roth IRA at age 30. I'd just go ahead and cash it out. It you don't get uh, it's not a 100% tax. You're just taxed and penalized on that amount of

growth only. That's why I was asking you what you had in it. And so, the calculation's not as severe as it sounds. Um, so let's say you end up pulling 40,000 bucks out cuz we just got rid of 40 with the scholarship idea.

Um, you know, you might have $5,000 in taxes. >> It's 10 It's 10%, yeah?

Is that the rate? >> Yeah, on the growth. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So, I could in essence take that money out and use it say like for a home improvement or something. >> it for anything if you pay the taxes on it. And there'll be the taxes and the penalty. There's a tax and a penalty both but it's maybe a 10 or a 15,000 out of that 40 you're going to lose but it's not 100% so they don't take the whole thing.

And and rather than try to screw around with something for a 22-year-old waiting until they're 30 and these idiots in Washington change the law six times between now and then. >> Yeah.

Good, life's good." Yeah, I agree.

>> Yeah. There you go. Hey, good question.

Thanks for calling. So, you know, that's a very [snorts] unusual problem. Uh, yeah, it's a good I think it's a good problem to have. >> Yeah. I mean, the only other thing is if they left it, I mean, it can pass like It could her as a beneficiary, she can pass it to her kids when the time, you know, when the time comes. That's way out there but Yeah, now we got 800 grand. That's [laughter] true. Yeah.

At that point, if you take the penalty, it might hurt a little bit more. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> I think I think I'm going to go ahead and just be done with it and just say, "Hey, we did a great job. >> [music] >> We might have even done too good a job but just so slightly.

Just so slightly. You know, when I hit a golf [music] ball a little bit too long, I just say I hit it too well.

It's all it is. This is the Ramsey show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Luke 6:38.

Give and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will be poured into your lap.

J. Paul Getty says, "Money is like manure. >> [music] >> You have to spread it around or it smells." All right. I'll go I'll go with a little generosity. There we go.

Left in one pile, it stinks. Yes, I like that. That's good. Dylan is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Dylan. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, Dave and Jade. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Hey, I've got a question for y'all. I've kind of got two options. I'm working Baby Step number two currently with my wife. Um, we are about 71,000 in debt.

67 of that is student loans and 4,000 on a credit card. Mhm. Um, right now we're bringing in about 6,200 and I think it'll take us, you know, roughly five years to get out of that debt. So, that's kind of what I'm going to label as option one.

Option two is my wife can have the opportunity to travel with her job and we would be able to kind of sell our house, pay all that debt off instantly and then travel around for a couple more years while we save up for another down payment and and find a place that we want to stay for a while. In that option, I wouldn't work. I would raise my five-year-old and my two-year-old.

Maybe finding a job on the road if I got time but What kind of work >> to get y'all's opinion. What kind of work is it? Nursing?

Yeah, well, kind of it's a echocardiography so it's ultrasounds of the heart but very similar to like a travel nurse. Okay. So, give me a better

picture of that. So, is that you just you live somewhere for six months and then you move on? What does that look like? Three-month contracts.

Um, roughly about 2,500 a week. And then they range depending but average would be about 2,500 a week. And how old are the kids? Three and five.

>> Uh, five-year-old and a yeah, five and two but yeah. >> Five and two. Okay.

Interesting. What do you do?

Um, I work for the state.

Doing what? Uh, fisheries biology.

Mhm. What do you make?

Uh, I make 69,000. What does she make

now? She's part-time. Um, she stays at home with the kids two times so it's it ranges but um, I think about 30,000 a year.

Okay. Okay, so she could work full-time and make 70.

She could. And um,

>> [snorts] >> but your all's concern is that one parent is with the kids, it sounds like.

Yeah, we like that and and and I'm okay staying in debt a little longer. I know it's not the Ramsey way but I'm okay with it so she can spend some time with the kids. It's really important to her.

I if you were leaning towards one, what would you lean towards? Because

when I look they want the adventure and they would say, "Oh, this is a great opportunity. Let's go out go travel. The kids will learn on the road." You know, that kind of thing. Whereas other families like the feeling of stability and and being in one place.

So, do you see what I'm saying? Where do you fall on that line?

Yeah, for me, option two and I think that's both of us. But, what our concern is y'all just went through the housing market. I mean, we're in a really good spot. We bought in 2019 so we have a low interest rate. We're just not a huge fan of our area. We both love our jobs.

Um, we just want a different area.

>> So, then then you've whittled this down to it all being about interest rate.

And that shows me interest rates and house price. Yeah. House prices are going to escalate during the three or four years he does this. That's true but they will also have paid off debt so you'll be saving more.

So, I think you can pace with that.

Yes. And putting into retirement cuz right now, Baby Step number two, we're not into retirement so this would essentially jump us into three. Yeah.

I I feel like what you're leaning towards is option two and I don't have a problem with that as long as you guys don't have a problem with it.

Okay. And then I I'd set I'd set clear limits. How long do we think we want to do this? And then play out the whole thing until the end.

What is What is the whole thing look like? We do this for three years. At the end of it, we've had X amount of dollars saved and then we can go and we think we can buy this amount of house in cash. Play the whole plan out and then ask yourself what happens if this goes well, what happens if this goes bad and really try to fill in all those variables as best as possible on paper, not just mentally, not talking about it over dinner but write it down so you can see, do we like this?

There's nothing holding you to this.

Okay, three years, we're going to do five cities. Okay, that's the plan. But after three cities you go, this isn't fun. Yeah, we can stop. We can stop.

Yeah, you don't have to play all the way out. It's not a long-term play.

I would not call it a decade. No. Yeah, a decade of this feels >> I I I think I I I would put a limit on Personally, I'd put a limit on it from economic standpoint of 5 years. Um, there's only so much adventure you can stand, too. So, um, but but, you know, I

personally wouldn't do that. But uh um I mean, I wouldn't do anything longer than 5 years. I think it's going to You're going to end up in a other kinds of issues. >> Mhm. Cuz you got a At that point you got a 10-year-old and an 8-year-old, too.

So, um But the point of playing that out is to say, what What is it that you're trying to accomplish >> Exactly. with this money and with this lifestyle? >> What's end game and is it worth it?

>> Mhm. And is the is the the process we're going through going to get be worth Is the Is the juice going to be worth the squeeze? >> go. Uh Ramon is in San Diego. Hi Ramon, how are you?

Hey, hello, Dave. Thank you for having me. >> Sure, how can we help?

I mean, I don't really know where to start, so I'm just going to put it this way. I'm like $73,000 in debt. Mhm. >> And I don't really know where to start.

Okay. I mean, I got myself in this position. I'm done beating myself down to it and I mean, here we are now. What kind of debt is it?

Uh I mean, it's a combination of a lot of things. It's credit cards, like personal loans, student loans. >> Give us a breakdown. How much on credit cards?

Okay, on credit cards it's about $33,000.

>> Okay, how much on the car?

On the car I owe $16,000.

>> Okay. Okay. What else? Personal loan?

Okay, personal loan is $6,000 and

student debt is about $12,000. Okay. The

The car, um what's it worth if you sold it? Just curious.

Uh last time I checked, uh it was like $24,000. What do you make?

I'm currently making $3,000 a month.

Okay, so I just want to clarify the car.

You said you owe $16,000 and I said if you sold it, you said you'd get $24,000.

Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, last time I checked like uh like a couple months ago. >> Okay, well, that's good for you.

Yeah. Okay, so what if What if step one was we sold this car to get out of the note? Are you on a to get out of the note and then you bought something in cash to free up some money. What about that?

Yeah, yeah, that's something I already discussed with my wife too and and we're kind of on board to do that. >> What's your wife make?

Uh my wife stay home.

And you make $3,000 a month in San Diego. Ooh wee. >> Yes. >> That don't work.

What's keeping you in San Diego?

>> Okay, so just a little background in the in the way the situation ended up like this. So, I lost my full-time job like 6 months ago. I ended up being unemployed for like 4 or 5 months and I finally landed this part-time job from Costco pushing carts. Got it.

>> In the meantime. And now I have a job,

professional job again, thank God, lined up in Houston, Texas. It's going to start next month. >> Oh, that's a big part of this.

>> Oh, that kind of matters in the discussion. So, how much are you going to make there? >> Yeah. So, the first few months it's going to be like $57,000 a year plus a 500 stipend for rent

Okay. A month.

And after that, I think it's going to get They're going to bump me up to like $62,000.

Good. >> Base salary plus commissions. It's a sales position. >> Awesome. >> Excellent. So, the The biggest thing to worry about now is saving up for this move cuz this move is coming. It's going to be expensive. I still think you need to get rid of this car because it's going to free up extra money. Are they giving you a moving stipend?

>> [snorts] >> Um yeah. Yeah, I believe they're going to send like 1,500 before taxes.

>> 1,500? Okay, that's not a whole lot. So, I want your your homework here is to not make this worse by going into debt on a move. So, you need to save up for the move and you need to do detailed research on what this is going to cost you because a cross-country move is expensive. >> When do you move?

Uh they want me to be there by January 2nd. Ooh wee. Yeah.

>> so yeah, you need to be delivering pizzas and Ubers and whatever else you can going crazy between now and Christmas, throwing boxes for FedEx or UPS, whatever you got to do. I want you working 60 80 hours a week to pay for the move between now and Christmas, okay?

Yeah. No, yeah, I'm actually looking for a second and a third job at the moment.

>> Yeah. I I I wouldn't look for one. I'd go get one today. They're everywhere.

Um it's it's Christmas, dude. I mean, Target's paying 20 20 bucks an hour. Get your butt over there. So, load up on that and then list your debts smallest to largest and we're going to pay [music] for you to go through Financial Peace University, our class, to show you how to do all this stuff because we're running out of time and we didn't get to give you a great answer.

So, you hang [music] on. Chris will pick up and take care of you, brother. You're going to be great. You're going to do good.

I can tell. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be back with you before you know it.

>> [music]

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## 107. Make The Right Decision Today—Your Future Will Thank You | December 26, 2025


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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal [music] is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is88255225.

You ready to go, partner? >> I am ecstatic. I see you got your uh really fancy uh denim jacket on today. I

saved the best for you. I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas.

Kathy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, I'm 68 years old and six months ago I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 from my brother. He invested 110. I retired from my company. I took

out all my 401k and pension. And uh,

last month they ghosted us and froze our accounts and we lost it all. I lost 487,000.

My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and the 110 he invested and my brother would like his money. >> Oh boy. >> And and I have a house that's paid off.

I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. Um I have a $30,000 loan from

American Express. So I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy? Do I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my house my husband died, so my house is not uh in

is in good enough condition. I'm just lost. >> Okay. Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost, I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. >> You know, that's that's an unbelievable.

Yeah. And I'm so sorry. Is this scam still out there?

>> Um I'm It probably is. I filed with, you

know, FBI and all the agencies, but they

didn't have a whole lot of hope for me.

>> Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. So, how much debt total do you have right now? Now, you said you have 30k on an American Express card, >> right? That was a loan. The other two are 2,000 >> [clears throat] >> um maybe 3,000 total. So, 33,000.

>> So, 33,000. And I know you retired recently. Um >> Yes. >> What is your what does the future look like as far as work? Because that's we absolutely have to consider that right now. >> Oh, I know. I've been applying, but I'm like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales, so I can do that.

But I'm, you know, >> How long have you been out of the workforce?

>> Uh, since May, end of May.

>> What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on?

>> Um, my job once you quit, you you're

gone. I'm easily replaceable.

>> Okay. [sighs] Wow. Well, bankruptcy, you

know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth >> declaring bankruptcy over this. Yeah, >> cuz you just you lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back, >> right? >> And the pension as well. So, you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, >> took cashed out every dime of your retirement, and threw it into this course.

>> Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month, social security. Now, >> what is your >> $500?

$2,000. I make 2,000 a month.

>> And then what was the other thing you were about to mention? 500 something.

>> I promised my brother $500 a month.

>> Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money. >> Sorry. Brother is on his own. >> We You both got screwed in this and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back.

>> Okay. >> I mean, he got you into this if I heard you correctly. >> No, I got him. And >> Okay.

>> It doesn't matter. >> Due diligence. >> It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on team Kathy.

So I I misunderstood. But no, you can't take care of brother. Brother's got to take care of himself. You both you both made a poor decision and and now we got to figure out >> you were in what the bank would call a risky borrower.

>> Well, he had he had faith in me and Sure. And he's I've never disappointed him before. So >> I Well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments because you got to put food on the table. >> Can you live off of 2,000 a month?

>> Um my my bills really are $800 a month

um plus food and then my homeowner's

insurance and um uh

>> so all in what does it take to run your house for a month? Include food, include HOA, every single little thing.

>> Yeah, pretty much 2,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, you're just going to hopefully survive. And that's where getting a job is going to come into play.

>> Listen, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to jump in real quick on the job thing because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work. Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think uh you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about. Now, I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, >> Walmart, Target.

We need income. and if we can get some benefits out of that. So, I mean, you're you're doing everything you can and your number one goal right now is to tell everybody your story. Now, this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying.

I I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed, and I understand that, but you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I

think a 60-year-old lady who's a good person, uh, who has lived her life well,

I this is where we can't do this on our

own.

>> We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. I

mean, we No advice that George and I will give you um is going to alleviate

that fact.

This is the time to go, everybody. I know, here's my story. here's what's going on and and this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go, I'm going to help Kathy and I'm going to give Kathy a job.

Uh that's what has to happen right now.

What is your house worth?

>> Uh probably 350 for a flipper. It's on

paper that they >> What do you mean for a flipper? you know, if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick money.

>> I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent, what could you get for it?

>> Uh, well, I asked and they said 375 to 425. >> Okay. So, your house is worth about $400,000. I would keep it for now. Try to stay afloat. Try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason. You could sell the house, downsize, and invest the difference to

try to create a little bit of a nest egg.

>> Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route. >> No, >> but that >> I mean, they will just screw you with all the fees. You're going to lose all the equity in your home.

>> Um, you know, it's it's a terrible, horrible financial product. And they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

Uh Kathy, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly.

>> Um George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'm in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take

the entire proceeds and get that back in the the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years? I I as you said that, I just What do you What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean that was my my initial thought was could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it and live off of the growth. There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to be.

>> I don't want to live off of it. >> We don't know how long it'll last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that play that card later on down the road when necessary instead of just going to that route and then not working at all. That's my fear.

So Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand and can just get these scammers to give you your money back.

The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So, you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next.

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Welcome [music] back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm alongside the one, the only George Camel. He is without comparison, folks.

That's just all I'll say. And he is our [music] resident money expert today. Uh, he'll help you figure out what to do with it. I'm going to help you earn more of it.

How about that? So, you got the guy who wants to help you make more money and the guy who tells you what to do with the money. That's quite a combo. Winning team.

And I see you got one of your nicer jackets on today. >> It's a sportsman uh varsity jacket, I think, is what they say. >> Is that what it's called? >> I don't know.

You I was hoping you could tell me.

>> It's missing the leather sleeves and the letterman. Do you even know what it means to letter in a >> I never made the team, Ken. I think that's pretty obvious. >> I know. No one is shocked by that at all. But we still love you, George. And you are our coach today. So, where's the whistle? Let's get you a whistle and and uh and a hat. I think whistles are obtrusive. >> And they might be. Jim is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. Jim, how can we help today?

>> Hi, how you doing? Yeah, I'm calling because our church is expanding. We're adding on to the building, taking out a loan. Our church collects decent offerings every week and month, but they want some guaranurs to co-sign for the loan.

So, >> how big is the loan? >> Um, the loan is going to be about 3

million.

>> And what kind of >> offerings are >> Yeah, tell me about those church offerings. >> The church offerings are about 15,000 every week. Um, the loan amount would be

like 17,000 a month.

>> But, um, >> so they want you to take personal risk.

>> Yeah. >> For a $3 million loan.

>> A few A few of the members. They're asking a few. >> Are you Are you on the leadership team?

>> Yes, I am. >> Well, how do you feel about this?

>> I'm I'm not at peace about it. That's why I called to be honest with you. We have some people that have done it.

>> Yeah. I wouldn't do it.

>> I wouldn't do it.

>> I'm I'm I guess I'm just kind of shocked that they would ask that. >> I agree. That's a very uncomfortable position to put you in. >> The church should never have to ask individuals to be guarantees on that. If the church can't service that loan, I don't know what they're thinking.

>> So, yeah, the reason they need the guarantor is because the lender doesn't believe the church has the finances to pay the loan.

That should be red flag number one.

>> Yeah. Waving in the wind. And number two, if I'm part of this church board, I'm going to say, what would it take to cash flow this through, you know, a giving through the church?

>> Who's driving this? >> Who's driving this this this expansion idea? Is it is it the pastor?

>> Uh, it's it's combination uh pastors and

leaders. >> Yeah, but I mean, come on. Who's the real cheerleader? You know the answer.

Who is it?

>> The pastor. >> Yeah, that's what I thought.

Yeah, he needs to cool his jets. The answer is no.

I wouldn't touch it with a 10-ft pole.

And by the way, you felt that way before you called us.

>> Yeah. I'm just calling for some confirmation. I just to make sure I could. >> Your gut's right. >> This This is a Listen, I come from the church world. I was raised in the church. My dad was a church planter. Um my dad didn't do what this pastor's doing, but I've seen it. You know, growth is exciting. Hey, we want to do this. who want to grow and and I believe the pastor's heart's in the right place, but he's got building fever and it's an

easy thing to happen. And it's just like anything else. He as a pastor is not immune from the idea of being tempted, you know, to to buy a bigger house, George, or to buy some land and build the dream home well before you're ready to do so. He's not immune from that. And that's what this is. He shouldn't be putting pressure as a leader on people

in the church to personally guarantee what the church needs to handle on their own. So that's uh for that reason, George, we're out. We're out. So there you go. Let's go to Morgan in Cleveland, Ohio. Morgan, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? >> Good. How are you? >> Um I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I recently experienced a pretty big increase in my income. I am a student and I've moved

from an hourly wage to kind of a higher salary and I'm a bit overwhelmed about what to do with it and how to manage it responsibly. I was wondering if you have any advice for a student on did I buy a house or invest or I have no idea what to do. >> Wow, congrats. So, what were you making and what do you make now?

Um, so I was making the most I've ever made is about $20 an hour and my new

salary is $210,000 a year. >> Whoa. So you 5xed your income.

>> You went from like 40 grand to 210. Tell us really quickly in 20 seconds what happened.

Um, I'm a law student and I just got really um I got decent grades and I

landed a job.

>> Nice. Good for you. So, you've you've been you've already taken the firm job.

You got the big job.

>> Uh, so this will be for next summer. So, I'd be a summer associate, but after that, um, hopefully the plan is that they'd hire me back. I've pretty consistently they hired those individuals back and they train you over the summer.

>> Okay. Well, I will receive this pro-rated um yeah, next summer.

>> Okay. So, it's a pro-rated. You're not It's not like you've signed on and you're now going to be making 210,000 over the next 12 months.

>> Um I will after I graduate. So, that'll be in a year. >> Okay. Gotcha. So, it's locked in. Okay.

Gotcha. >> But you know this is coming that potentially a year from now you'll 5x your income and you're going, "What do I do?" Wow.

>> Yes. >> Do you have any debt from law school?

>> No. I was very fortunate to have a good scholarship. >> Wow. Good. >> Well, you worked your butt off for it. It wasn't luck.

>> I appreciate that. >> That's awesome. So, no debt at all.

>> No debt at all. >> No car loan. No credit card.

>> How much fun are you going to have with this? >> Catapulted your future. Do you have anything in savings right now?

>> Um, I have about a hundred,000 in

savings. >> Who are you? Is this a prank call, Morgan? Be honest. Morgan, are you a real person?

>> I am. Actually, I wanted to thank you guys because my parents actually I'm sure they would be shocked that I'm calling the show right now, but they listened to Dave Ramsey growing up and >> the whole show they like went to his event. They wanted to thank him. Didn't get the opportunity. So, I for them. But

>> the best thank you is is following the plan and living it out and changing your family tree. And your parents have done that. You're doing that.

>> 100 grand saved. No debt.

>> They paid off their house. So they want to thank you as well from them.

>> Look at that >> incredible family. Okay. So if I'm in your shoes, my next goal would likely be

to purchase a home once I have that stable big income. So what does your living situation look like right now?

>> Right now I'm in an apartment. I pay about $1,000 a month. Um I'm right next

to my law school, blockable, and um

yeah, that's about it. Is the firm in the same area where you're going to school now?

>> It's not. I will have to move. Um I have

a place rented out for the summer already that I've paid for for next summer, but um that's about a th000 as well. Thousand a month. >> Uh George, what I was going to suggest here, and I'll stay out of the way here, let you keep going, but I I wonder if she doesn't rent for at least 6 months, maybe 12 months once she lands in this new metropolitan area or wherever she's going. Even if you want to rent for 2 years and continue stacking up cash >> depending on how big a home she's going to get.

>> Yeah.

going to just sock away into savings and after two years, I'm going to have a few extra hundred grand.

>> Well, I think that's what I'm wondering is I don't I mean, I know nothing about houses. I've never looked to buy a house. I don't know if that's a terrible idea or I should be investing and just keep living kind of frugally or >> the good news is you can do both. So in in the baby steps you would be at baby steps for uh you call it 3b where you're saving up for the home down payment.

And many people choose to invest that 15% into retirement from their income. And so you can do that now uh depending on what you know retirement options you have through your employer. You could always open a Roth IRA and fully fund that through your income. And then as you make more, that 15% chunk gets larger.

You know, 15% of 200 grand is way more than 40. >> And so as you do that, you're going to continue to build wealth. Any money beyond that, let's stack away in a high yield savings account and maybe get a house in the next two years.

>> Yeah, that's overwhelming thought, but

>> and here's the deal. You don't have to do this alone. If you jump on to ramiesolutions.com, click on trusted services, and you can get connected with a real estate agent that is Ramsey trusted that will help you walk through this home ownership journey. And uh I think that's the next step for a young gal who's crushing it. And beyond that, enjoy some of it. Give some of it.

>> Yeah. And I I just want to say, Morgan, I know you you're doing such a great job out on your own, but your mom and dad have taught you right. They've done it the right way. Call mom and dad. You're not alone on this deal. Um they're going to walk you through them. They're they're solid people and so you got the best bench that you could possibly uh want helping coach you as you enter into life. Thanks for the call, Morgan. You're a superstar. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show.

Thrilled to have you with us, America.88255225

is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside Karen is up

next in San Antonio, Texas. Karen, how can we help today?

>> Hi you guys. Sure appreciate you um taking my call today. You bet.

>> Um I um guess to start that I'm I'm a widow. I um 66. I have a small business that's kind of struggling. um recently had heart surgery, etc., etc., no kids, no family, two dogs. [laughter] >> Wow. >> Two [clears throat] dogs, little on social security and some from my um business and credit cards.

>> Um I managed to get into a situation. I

borrowed money from a personal loan um

an online personal loan company um

nationally advertised, all that kind of good stuff. Went through the whole process because I wanted to pay off some um some debt. you know, to get rid of my credit cards and to invest in a um a

vehicle for my mobile um salon

and um managed to find out that the interest rate is somewhere around 48%.

>> Oh my goodness. >> And it's and it's frontloaded. I mean I

mean I heard the 48% but I thought that's no no big deal because I'm going to pay this off like very quickly. And so I didn't pay attention [clears throat] enough to hear that it's frontloaded. So

the amount of money that I borrowed, >> most of your payments are going to interest essentially, >> not touching the principal. >> Absolutely. >> How much was the loan for? >> It's half and half is is what it is. I I ran a thing this morning. Um half and half is going to principal. >> How much was the loan >> for $29,000?

And how soon were you planning to pay that off when you just stared 48% and went, "Ah, no big deal." How quickly were you planning to pay that off? Those were your words. >> Within a year. Within a year.

>> So, you were okay with a 48% for a year?

I've never heard anybody say that before. >> That's an extra 15 grand in interest alone.

>> Yeah. Well, like I said, I, you know, I'm kind of ridiculously stupid at this particular point. Um, >> yeah. No, I mean I'm not here to bash you. I'm trying to understand the desperation that led you to this.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm Is this for your business?

>> Yes. >> What's your business? >> It was >> uh it's um dog grooming. Why did you

need Why did you need $29,000 for a dog

grooming business that's struggling

>> to um go into the next phase and um

excuse me, didn't expect that. Um

[clears throat] it's going into a mobile situation, a mobile grooming situation um with a very specified uh market um that nobody's really tapping into at this point. And what is the market, you know? >> Well, I don't really want to say it out loud on the competition. Okay. You don't want to give away your Shark Tank idea here. Okay. >> Well, I hire mobile groomers, so I'm just curious cuz I pay these people and I understand how the business works. >> And I've used a mobile groomer as well.

So, but >> right, >> but this was a >> this is this is a the concept was a little bit different. It's a larger grooming situation where you have two people inside and then you um we're

situated in a in an area a contracted

area that we would be there for three or four days and we would >> you kind of park.

>> So the only reason we're digging is >> like a popup. >> Got it. But the only reason we're digging on this is we're trying to figure out how we help you get out of it. So the question is, was the 29,0004

like a van or some type of vehicle or was it just the equipment or was it just other stuff? >> It was part >> You're breaking up on us, Karen. >> And then part I'm sorry. It was part for the vehicle and then um the other part for the conversion of the vehicle to the

unit that I was I was trying to achieve.

>> How much could you sell this thing for to someone else who does mobile grooming?

I believe in an easy 40 40 45,000.

>> And what's your total debt that you owe?

Everything but the mortgage >> on the the vehicle.

>> Just everything. All your debt. >> Cuz you said you had other debt and you took out this debt to try to pay off some other debt. So what is your total debt load right now?

>> Okay. Total debt load um with the thing

that I took out before was is about 31,000. Then I have um eight u eight

grand on MX and about 8,000 on City Bank. And that's that's it as far as what I Oh, and about and four 400 40

4,000 on the RV that I bought to live in. >> So you're living in an RV right now.

>> Yes, that's correct. I had a plan originally. >> We all have a plan until life punches us in the face. So, how are you how how if

we if we were to sell this? Do can you

sustain yourself on uh just regular pet

grooming or do you have to do >> I have a well it's it's part of you know

to continue on with the mobile business just because of the culture of employees

and such since co um I have a standalone

I mean I have a stick and mortar business also but I was going to keep it in a in a small set still maintain

Is the brickandmortar business profitable >> right now? No.

>> So, here's what it sounds like. You're you're jumping from unprofitable to unprofitable to unprofitable, hoping to strike gold at some point. And instead, you just keep digging a hole by maxing out these cards and jumping to another piece of debt to try to cover the other debt. And so, we're trying to stop you from playing the shell game and number one, create a profitable business, and two, get out of debt.

And that might mean a clean slate where you get rid of this mobile grooming truck, you sell it, sell the RV, you rent for a while, get rid of all your debt, create a foundation, and then start slow and with cash. >> Yeah. I just I And to that end, Karen, we're trying to solve for you here.

could you make similar money just grooming for somebody else? Just somebody else who's got a business and they're looking for a solid person like you. You're not going to flake on them.

You've got the skill set. Can you make the same amount of money working for somebody else as a groomer?

>> Um, if I wanted, if I was able to work full-time, um, and work as hard as I

used to, yes. Um, I, like I mentioned

before, I'm 66 and I had

>> What are you making from this? >> You're in a state.

>> What What is your yearly income from all of this after all of your expenses?

Oh, barely anything because everything I have got >> That's what I'm saying. You could go work a retail job and not break your back doing this and get out of this completely. >> And what about 20 hours? Like just work part-time. They need groomers. You're a

dream for somebody trying to find one.

>> I [laughter] know. But what but Karen, listen. We want you to sell all this stuff and and you got social security coming in. Uh work 20, 30 hours. do whatever you can, but selling the RV and

selling this van gets a a whole lot.

>> I don't have the van yet. That's why I borrowed the money to >> Where's the money right now?

>> Well, I was afraid to spend it once I figured out what how much it was going to cost me. So, I kept it and just let it pay itself. >> Wait, so a bank?

>> Can you just go ahead and pay off the loan then?

>> Um, I could, but it would take everything pretty much everything. It better than paying 15 grand in interest that you don't have. >> Yes, Karen. This is get out of jail here. This is get out of jail.

>> I thought the damage was done and you already bought the van and did the renovations, but if you have the money sitting there, >> no. No, it's not even there yet. >> Hit the rewind button. >> The bank gave you 31,000 48% interest.

>> That's it. Rewind this whole deal.

>> 31 grand. >> Do I'm sorry for the sound effects.

>> No, it's great actually. I like that. >> Really, Karen? Hit the rewind button and get out of this deal. Go work for a local groomer who is going to be thrilled to have a 66-y old experienced

nonflaky Gen Z groomer and they're going to pay

you well and you get some breathing room. Am I right, George? >> Absolutely. And what's the RV worth? You owe 4,000 on it. What could you sell it for? >> No, I owe 40,000 on it. Goodness. And what I could what I could sell it for is

>> about between 35 and 40. It's it's a

it's a 24.

>> Where the hell am I going to live?

>> Rent somewhere >> with in a over some old lady's garage

because she needs some companionship and she wants somebody who can I'm telling you where there's a will, there's a way.

>> What's your payment on the RV?

>> Um 441.

>> Okay. Take your 441 that you'll save by getting rid of that plus your social security >> plus your part-time hours and you can afford rent somewhere. You might need it, you know, to >> There's some gold. I guarantee you there's some golden girls in your community that love would have loved to have a roommate.

I mean, you got to look. You got to find it. You got to happen to life, Karen. And we've been talking to a lady who life has been happening to her.

You got to flip the script here. We told you exactly what to do. This is doable, but you got to do it. Change your life.

>> [music]

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[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me this hour. The phone number is 888255225.

You got a question about your money?

Come on. You got a question about not making enough money. You want to make more. I'm here to help on that. George is going to coach you up on your budget, how to keep it. So, uh, let's get to it.

Is it Joan? I think we're going to go with Joan or Joanne. What do you think?

What do you think? >> I'm going to go Joanne. >> You're gonna go Joanne. I'll go with Joanne. Let's see. Toronto, Ontario. Is

it Joan or Joanne?

>> It's Joanne. >> Joanne. All right. Way to go, George.

Way to help me out. I win a prize. Thank you. How can we help?

>> Okay. So we have a 15-year-old son who

um we have been Dave Dave Ramsey

followers for years. So he has done the 60 3010 principle.

Now he is working um 50 60 hours a week

and we are starting to see an unhealthy

money habit where everything is about money and saving.

>> Be more specific. >> Like how do >> what's what's what's showing up in his in his actions in his comments that's got you concerned about a 15year-old working 50 to 60 hours a week. I'm I'm having a hard time being concerned yet, but I want to hear more. >> Okay. Well, and maybe this is where we don't need to be concerned. Um, but he

is an avid soccer fan.

>> Okay. >> And he would rather work than go to his

soccer game.

>> You mean mean playing in his in his Correct. Okay. >> Correct. >> And what's his job? What kind of work is he doing? >> Um, he's now into landscaping. Mhm. And

what's he making per hour?

>> Uh $19 an hour.

>> Uhhuh. And what kind of goals does this kid have with this money? Have you heard him talk about some of his goals?

>> Oh, yes. >> What's he got? >> He wants to buy a house.

>> Uhhuh. And why does he want to buy a house? >> He wants to buy a house when he's 20.

>> And yes, in Canada, in our area, you don't get much of a house for 400,000.

>> Right. And what is he uh what is he saying about his future besides buying a house? Is he saying anything about a professional future, things that he may want to do one day?

>> Um, he like he's leaning towards running

his own landscaping company.

>> Okay, there's your answer. >> But when it comes to college, it is off the table. He doesn't even want to think about it because he can make money instead. >> Fantastic. >> Well, he's figured he's making400 a month at 15 years old. What does he need college for? >> I couldn't be happier. Joanne, you have nothing to be concerned about at all.

You have a 15-year-old who has discovered the value of working his butt

off and stacking cash and he's thinking

five years ahead on a house. He's thinking probably seven to 10 years ahead on owning his own landscaping company. And he's going, I'm never going to play in the in the MLS and I'm probably not going to make the Canadian World Cup team. So maybe I'll just skip my soccer game and take care of my future. I wouldn't be concerned if I were you, Joanne. I'd be throwing a party.

>> Okay, that's good.

>> George, am I am I wrong? >> Here's my take. Now, there's I'm The only concern is that he has skipped childhood and went straight into adulthood. We want him to grow into an adult who is excited about work. I like that. >> Skip childhood. That's a dramatic.

>> Well, I just don't want him to look back one day and go, "What?" Like, I just what what did I do this for? I just worked my whole life. My concern, Ken, and here's where I've seen this play out. There's not a why behind it.

>> He's got a why. Well, he wants to he wants a house. >> No, he wants to run his own landscaping company one day. >> Yes, >> he likes landscaping work.

>> Buy a house at 20. >> Who cares about that? That's just a 15-year-old. That'll work itself out.

She's wondering, is he working too much?

Is he too concerned about money? And I don't think he is. Is he Does he have to be in school?

>> We homeschool.

>> Okay. >> And he's doing his high schooling instead of four years, he's doing it in three. >> And he's getting it all done. He's doing his work. He's studying. >> Oh, absolutely. Okay, great. This kid can work and make money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people get it. >> Well, he hates the homeschooling, but he's so bound and bent. He can make money, >> but he's very disciplined >> instead of sitting behind a desk.

>> Yes. But that's what schooling does to a lot of entrepreneurs. In fact, I could tell this story over and over and over and over and over against all about all the great entrepreneurs. They hate being on a behind a desk. They hate the process. They're about doing. And uh my

guess is he really enjoys the outdoors.

Is this something he's always been? Bit of an outdoorsy handy kind of guy.

>> Oh, absolutely. 100%.

>> Again, this is he's Listen, I wrote a book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, George. This kid is wired.

>> He figured it out very early.

>> Yes. I'm telling you, I'M SO EXCITED. I

COULD BARELY STAND IT. This is, by the way, this is rare.

>> Very. But but to say this kid's not had any fun, he's had a fun childhood. Yes.

Yeah. Well, and trauma. Lots of trauma.

But >> Okay. Tell us about that. Whatever you're comfortable with. We don't need to know the details, but what kind of trauma? >> Um, he lost his brother when he was

seven. >> Mhm. >> So, that's really tough on him.

>> Well, that'll make you grow up quick.

That's exactly what I was. So, sorry.

Yeah. >> Yeah. And a year later, his dad and me

split. >> Okay. So would you say it's possible that this

is a big distraction for him and it also

is a potential win for him? He sees a

big life win. He sees something that he can control. He couldn't control losing his brother. He couldn't control you all divorcing, but he can control how much money he makes.

>> I think so. and potentially it makes him

focused on something other than his pain. >> That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's why I said it's a distraction and something that he can control. >> It can be both. >> I listen, I think getting him therapy on a consistent basis and encouraging him to do that is okay. I understand your concern. I was having some fun. I I am in no way minimizing the trauma that

he's had, but this is this is actually he's not >> he's not some weird situation. He's rare, >> okay? >> But he's not weird.

>> Okay, >> George. Well, I keep thinking about my my friend Graeme Stefen, who's a big financial YouTuber. He had a very similar experience to your son, Joanne, where he went he was in school going, "Wait, I can go make money doing this aquarium photography stuff? Why am I sitting here in school making zero dollars? So, there's a bent to him that he's going to be very wealthminded and that's okay. I'm just in the boat of I think a little bit of balance is good >> as long as he has some hobbies.

>> I just I don't know that I I don't want to be working 60 hours a week, >> let alone a 15-year-old. So, that was my only thing was I love where he's headed.

His mindset's right, his discipline is there. I just want him doing it for the right reasons and have some real depth to it instead of just going, I got to build wealth. I got to have a million by 21 or else or else or else. And as I dig into it with people, there's no why behind it.

I just want them to have that deeper why. >> And I appreciate that. But I Joanne, I would I would just be aware. I think George makes a very good point there.

I just keep your eye on it.

positive life over him that he's working so hard that he's putting money away.

And just remind him, hey, have a little bit of fun with some of that money, you know, force him to give some, too. Yeah.

Because you said you're doing the 603010. I assume that's saving, spending, giving.

>> Yeah. But he, as long as we've done

that, which is all he ever actually remembers, he's never spent 30%.

>> I think we get him to >> spent way less >> to enjoy some of it more. Cuz what I'm the only concern is that he has a flat tire where he goes, I'm great at saving and investing. I have a harder time giving and having that open hand. I have a harder time enjoying the fruits of my labor. So, I think we can work on those things with him, but I don't think this is a, you know, a crisis.

>> No. >> No. >> Okay. just make make sure he doesn't get

too unhealthy. Uh and and and and that's

the only issue. And the unhealthy would be that he's just working working, not enjoying, not giving. Um so so be that

positive focus. Hey, I think you should go do this or I think you should have some friends over and do you know community I think is huge at 15.

>> Uh here's the interesting thing. It may be very hard to find other 15-year-olds who get him. >> He'll be hiring his buddies to work for his business at this point, >> right? you know, so they come over to play poker or something, he goes, "Hey, let's get outside and knock some boxwoods out here.

Let's plant these suckers." You know, but uh [laughter] I think you got a great young man who's been through a lot. And I think he's he's been forced to >> probably mature a little bit too early on certain things.

mom, and love him. Don't be concerned because he'll pick up on that. And I just don't think you need to be concerned right now. on the spectrum of 60 hours a week doing video games or working. I'd rather him be toward the work side. So, >> it's better. I love that. Good stuff.

All right. Good hour, George Camel. Good stuff. Praying for your voice. We'll get you medicated. More honey during the break. Thanks to Kelly Daniel keeping us on the air and the fearless [music] crew. This is the Ramsay Show.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

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Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dan joins us next in Mesa, Arizona. Dan, how can we help you today?

>> Yes, sir. Thank you for uh taking the call. I've been suffering in poverty for uh all my life pretty much and uh I have a plan uh and uh there's some details around that but that's my question.

>> Okay, tell us more. >> How do I get out of this poverty? What do am I on the right track and what can I do? >> Well, okay, let's start with where you are. Uh what is your income?

>> Right now I have income of about 1,400 with social security disability and I have a part-time labor job for about a

100red a week. My income last year on taxes was about just under 21K, which is

impossible to live on, of course. >> Yeah. Now, I'm I'm curious about the the

um the um disability because you're working

part-time. What is the part-time job?

>> The part-time job is working at the grocery store as a courtesy clerk, bagging groceries, lifting water, pushing old lady carts out for them, trying I try to make people feel good and have a blessing. I'm the last face they see before they walk up. >> Dan, you're a Dan, you're a good man.

What but what is your what is your disability and how does it limit you from working more?

>> Well, I'm

it's it's psychiatric. I've had I've had deep trauma in childhood >> and I've been in recovery from alcoholism for 28 years coming up December 4th. But there's a lot of these uh underlying issues and problems which have really prevented me from >> thinking clearly about money uh making clear good choices and um you know making bad decisions like that. So the the disabilities I can't really function that good in a workplace and a lot of depression and personality problems but

>> Well, how are you doing at the grocery store? >> Well, I do excellent at the grocery store. >> And why do you think that is?

because I started doing a special therapy for trauma called EMDR in March.

>> Yeah. >> And it took me from staring at the wall for a year and a half to uh working feeling good and taking a uh I took a training and got a certificate in Google data analytics uh uh from March until now. >> Way to go. >> I'm looking to uplevel. I'm trying to uplevel, but the thing is I got to get off social security for the first time since 2000, which is somewhat terrifying. >> I think that's the root of this.

>> I do too. And Dan, I want to tell you,

keep at it. And I would ask your therapist, get a professional opinion on

whether or not you, she or he feels like you can go to full-time work. Let's take some baby steps to this. And let's move

into if we can full-time at the grocery store because you're psychologically safe there right now. Sounds like.

>> Well, the problem I can't do full-time at the grocery store, which is a complex thing about the way they do their positions. I tried that in March which didn't turn out. So that's what made me turn back towards tech because I went to graduate school for research methods in the 90s, right? And I've got all the statistical background and now we've got all this new technology, AI coming, data analytics is hot.

I'm all for you going full blast on the technology side, but what I was suggesting is that might take a little bit of time >> to get that job and you're already in recovery um and you're doing some work and so I think getting some wins here is super important. You would agree with that, correct? Not just financial wins, but psychological, mental, and emotional wins. So here's where I'm going, Dan.

I would have never guessed, nor would anybody in this vast audience would have ever guessed the trauma. We still don't know. It's none of our business. But we wouldn't have guessed any of that based on how you described how you treat people and what you do at the grocery store.

So, I'm going to tell you something, man. I just I wish I could reach through the phone and give you a hug and say that I think you're stronger than you think you are.

heard thousands upon thousands of calls,

I I heard a man who is full of joy. And

not only full of joy, but like gives joy. I got goosebumps when you described

that you want to be the last face they see as they go to their car. I mean, there's a guy who's been through so much pain and has made it through just enough

to be able to give joy when you've had

very little joy.

So, there's my locker room speech, Dan.

But here's where I'm going.

>> If the grocery store won't move you to full-time, what about Target? What about Walmart? What about any other big box stores who need somebody like you who's going to show up? Broken? Yes. Joyful?

Yes. And you're going to give yourself away. I'd like to see you take that step

and let's see if we can get full-time pay and some benefits at one of those bigger stores >> and share some of your story. Don't share all the darkness. Don't share, but just go, "Hey, I've been through a lot.

I'm 28 years sober. I hear that from somebody and I go, "Rock on, baby.

I I I have mad respect for you, Dan."

So, I want you to carry that and let's see if we can get to one of those roles, get more income in, and get off of Social Security while we are making the

inroads and connecting. And I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, is my gift to help you make connections to get into technology. Now, that's my that's my little speech, but I

meant every word of it. And I think >> I appreciate you. That was amazing. That really helps me a lot in my heart.

>> Well, good. Because I think your head and your heart need to get on the same page. >> Yes, sir. >> You've lost trust in Dan, and we're telling you he's worth trusting in again. It's worth betting on yourself.

>> I stand with Dan. I'd call every store

in Mesa and I'd vouch for you

because there's no there's nobody among us today that doesn't have some brokenness.

So, I think you're going to have to step up a ladder on this. >> Yeah. The way out of this is income. And the good news is if you make so much working that you lose SSDI, good.

>> That's great. >> That's exactly what you wanted, isn't it? Cuz that's the only path out of this is making enough that you can lose it and not miss it. and cover your bills.

>> George, take two minutes and walk him through step by step. Let's assume he's gotten that money now. Walk him through setting up a budget and trusting himself that he doesn't need social security.

>> Yeah. Right now you're going, "Well, budget what money?" You know, you don't have enough coming in. But once you have three $4,000 coming in and your expenses stay where they are at, I'm assuming 2,000 bucks a month. How how much are you living off of right now?

>> 1,800. >> 1,800. So, can you imagine having an extra,000 or 2,000 bucks left over after your bills are covered? What kind of life that could provide for you?

Your ability to save, to invest, to give, cuz I can tell you're a generous guy who has a heart for that. It's going to change everything. So, you list out your income, you list out your expenses, and the good news, there's going to be money left over when you believe in yourself and go, I'm going to do the kind of work that I was made to do.

You're passionate about serving people.

And that could be through analytics.

That could be at Target. It doesn't matter. The key is you're worth more than a hundred bucks a week. Can we agree on that? >> Yes, sir. >> Dan, I'm gonna tell you those tears are

not a sign of weakness, man.

>> Well, these jobs, you know, they start at 100K. These jobs.

>> Yeah. >> I've been on disability since 2000. If I got a $6,000 take-home check, I'd be on

my knees. I'd be walking around.

>> So, let me tell you what you're going to do. You're going to get yourself a ticket and you're going to come to Nashville and you're going to wait to meet George and I in the lobby. We're going to come out [music] and we're going to give you a big bear hug and we're going to have the whole lobby just cheer. Dan. Dan. Dan. Dan. Let me tell

you something. The Dan we're talking to today who's here today and made the call today has got enough strength to be the Dan that you want to be. You better believe that, my man. Hang on the line.

We're going to get you the proximity principle. That is your homework assignment to get that $100,000 a year

job.

The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed.

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside. The phone number is 888255225.

Allison is up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Allison, how can we help?

>> Hi, good afternoon guys. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I just want to give a little background of what I'm asking about. Um, I'm giving my boyfriend just under two years and we have definitely talked about the future together. Um, you know, and the next step would be living together. Uh, we feel rent is just a waste of money. We'd like to buy a house. Um, neither of us are in the financial state to buy a house. Um, his parents have graciously offered to

basically have us buy their house from them um for 350,000 which is, you know,

pennies in this market. uh with the agreement of if we were to ever sell that we would have to split the difference with them. >> Whose parents? >> Um my boyfriend's parents.

>> This is an awful idea.

>> That's why I'm calling. Um >> did you feel like it was an awful idea when you called or did you think it was a great idea and you're just being nice to my really der response?

>> Um I was kind of 5050. Um, you know, I

came from a divorced house and my parents argued about money every single day. Uh, my boyfriend's parents are still together. They lived in middle class, so did we. Um, I also have like

student debt. My boyfriend doesn't have any. So, I'm just trying to,

I guess, think of the future. Um, I'm also thinking, am I going to sign off on a mortgage without an engagement? So, I know that's playing into it.

>> Yeah, those are all legit questions.

It's I mean George, >> that's your gut telling you red flag, red flag, red flag. Don't do this. It's not the opportunity you think it is. And also you splitting the difference with them. What happens if you stay in this for 10 or 20 years and this house becomes worth a million bucks and you just gave away 300 grand,

>> right? >> Do you see how convoluted it is? Can I give you an alternate vision? Can I do that, Alison? >> Yeah, I'm I'm all ears. I'm willing.

Yeah. >> Here's the alternate vision.

[clears throat] you and your boyfriend uh don't live

together until you get married. And when you get married, you join finances and

maybe you attack a lot of that debt before you ever put a ring on it. And you get debtree and you guys rent for

two years or whatever it's going to take, three years to get a good down payment. George will walk you through that formula of what we recommend. But we just take our time and we're not thinking things like, "Oh, what a waste of time. Us actually being married and not owning a home and and just have this alternate vision for, hey, we can take our time and and move into this and not

be saddled with, you know, a really weird uh clunky arrangement." And

George, explain uh our formula on all of this. What you're looking for is 25% of your take-home pay going toward the mortgage. And that's with two married people. And there's a lot of issues with uh doing this before you're married.

There's a lot of issues doing this with his parents involved and them having a financial gain in this. It just gets real messy. What happens when you guys or if you guys break up and now not only are you, hey, I'm on the mortgage, he stopped paying, but now the parents are involved with the sale of the house >> and they don't like me because I don't want their boy.

>> And I hope that doesn't happen. I hope you guys stay together forever. But the next logical step is not let's live together and buy a house even though we're broke. The next logical step is how do we get out of debt? How can we take steps toward marriage and then once we're in a good financial position, we buy a house. But right now what's clouding your judgment is this quote deal that you're getting on this house.

>> Um it's not that. I mean I'm going to be 32 soon and he's going to be 36 in a

month. So we're kind of thinking, you know, we want to get married, we want to start a family, start a life together.

um the market right now is >> but you don't have to buy this house. >> This has nothing to do with the market. And what let me tell you what happens because I know these stories. You guys move in together to this new house and for four more years you talk about getting married because guess what?

Now you've kind of already played house. So what's the point of getting married? Why the rush? And we're broke so we can't pay for a wedding.

And therefore you're going to build up resentment and that's going to not end well for this relationship. >> And so we're just showing you what happens on the other side. We're not trying to be naysayers. We just get too many calls when people hoped it would work out a certain way and then life happened, >> right?

I I get it. And I, you know, like I said, you know, I I came from divorced parents. I'm personally in debt. Um that I'm working extremely hard to tackle and just get rid of it so him and I don't have to worry about it.

Um and he is the complete opposite. Doesn't have any debt. Didn't have to worry about um parents financial struggles. So, you know, we're coming from two totally different point of views.

And when I bring up to him, um, you know, I don't want to sign a mortgage away if I'm not engaged. Like, I need at least a commitment. >> What does he say to that? >> Um, he he kind of I don't want to say he danced around the idea, but he like he goes, "Well, we're going to do it eventually.

Like, we're going to be together." Like, you know, but I I really want to live together before we do. I'm like, "Yeah, me, too. But if I'm going to sign a mortgage without a ring, like I don't see how that's fair to me." >> Yeah, you're right.

>> That's a Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at first I was like, I don't want to buy a house unless we're married. And then I compromised with I need at least an engagement so I know it's coming.

>> No, don't compromise. >> And >> don't compromise. Make him Listen, you got the leverage, sister.

>> He needs to step up, >> right? >> He needs to step his game up. Is he gonna is he gonna pop the question or not? You should play this back for him on YouTube. I'll tell him I'm the bad guy today. I don't care. Man up, bro.

Put a ring on it. Don't put pressure on her to get into a ill- advised deal.

>> And what's wrong with you? >> And to use this as leverage to hang over your head is just strange and manipulative. >> It's weak. Say, "Well, once we move in, then I'll propose." >> I want to try it out.

I want to I want to live with you for a while before I decide to commit to you. This is what's wrong with men in America today.

problem in the United States. And and women, you know what you ought to do?

Just tell these guys, go pound sand, I'm

not going to live with you. I'm not even going to date you for a long time if you don't show some daggum commitment. Uh, I

I just got to tell you, George, I I get a little irritated with it. And this is the problem. >> And he's in his 30s, Alison, right? You said >> he's 36. He's a manchild.

>> Why doesn't he just buy the house on his own? He's so financially well off.

>> There's a notion.

>> Right. [laughter] >> He doesn't have the money. Right. >> I think I shocked Allison.

>> Yeah. Um I I do you know I I want need

to say like he has been the I know this is probably sound contradictory but um he has been like the most amazing partner I could have ever asked for and like we don't have any issues. Um but

you know when it comes to this like this is where >> but when it comes to this like we obviously have two um standpoints. He's

he's seeing it as let's get the, you know, the living situation on the road and we can finally move forward and be together. And >> he commits first. >> Like renting renting is one thing, but like a a mortgage, I I don't know. I It

doesn't sit right with me. >> I thought we told you that, Allison.

Don't keep waffling on this. And listen, he may be a great boyfriend, but he's a boy. And until he starts acting like a man, I'm gonna tell you something. I wouldn't do any of this with him. I wouldn't do I wouldn't do any I wouldn't move in with him either.

And if that means you're renting, don't look at that as throwing away money on rent. You're buying patience. If you have to get two or three roommates until this is all figured out and you guys are married, I'm okay with that. That's how I I did it before I was married and it worked out great.

And it really helps you avoid so many issues that can come up when you jump into this next step, which is the biggest financial move you will ever make in your life is buying this house. And doing it with someone you're not married to is a recipe for disaster. All right, I'm gonna I got to ask you, what's if this were a dating show, >> okay?

serious relationship like this before we start to say, "Hey, dude, you have commitment issues." >> Here's what I'll say. What's the length of time? >> If it's high school sweethearts, I think you can get more time. If you're in your 30s, I give it two to three years max.

>> Oh, that's way too long.

>> Two to three years max. >> I think a year. I think 12 months. If you're in your 30s and you've been seriously dating someone for a year, if you can't decide by that point whether or not they're a life partner, >> I like getting past the first year. That's when you finally have your first fight. The first year, it's all gumdrops and rainbows. >> No, I think that's about a threemonth period. >> You got to know how they fight. Conflict is everything. You got to know how they fight before you say yes.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Ken's an old man, but I think we're on the same page. >> I believe in commitment. Been married 26 years. I believe in a thing called love and stuff it. >> This is the Ramsay show. [music]

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>> Our question today is from Marco in Arkansas. I am in uh [laughter] >> Sorry, had to do it. >> I like that. Didn't we just meet a family from Tex Arcana, Arkansas in the lobby? >> Oh, there they are right there. Very nice. Uh Marco says, "I'm in baby step

two with $10,000 left to pay off. I'm ready to go allin by working two full-time jobs until I get through baby step three. I'm worried that my kids will be affected by dad not being around as much. Should I go through this to benefit to benefit us in the long run or am I going to cause damage to my children and potentially my spouse even

though she's on board with my plan. I make about a h 100,000 at my current job. What? You're not going to damage

your children. They probably aren't even old enough to know that you're around.

You know, it kind of goes like this. I have So, I'm on the other end of the spectrum of George. George is just getting started and uh I'm I'm you know

like I see empty nesting. It's in your near future. >> It's it's there.

>> It's in another millennia for me. >> Boy oh boy am I excited about it. I love my kids. But I got to tell you it's uh it looks nice. Anyway, point is is that I feel like there's a season where the kids they have no concept of time. You

know what I mean? They're babies so they don't even know what's going on. Then they're toddlers, can't appreciate what's going on. Uh then they're like elementary, they're fine, you know, they're they're fine. And and then you got this like maybe second, third grade, they start being aware mom and dad aren't around, whatever. And then they become middle schoolers and you don't want to be around them. And then they become teenagers and they don't want to be around you. >> So I I just want to give some perspective here as a guy who's in this.

Uh Marco, you're going to be fine. It it is definitely uh if they got to see a little bit less of dad for a season, as long as they understand why to the ability that they can understand, if they can understand it, it doesn't matter. If they can, I think they're really going to appreciate it, they'll get it and everything's going to be okay. >> Yeah.

And based on his language here, he's saying, "I'm ready to go all in." It sounds like this has been stressing him out and he's wanting to get rid of it fast. And here's the thing, a stressed dad, a stressed mom is not a present dad.

>> They feel it. And so I'd rather you not be around them if you're like a live wire because you're so stressed out about your money. Y >> I'd rather you be at work working to clean this mess up. And the other thing is the math ain't math for me.

You got 10 grand to pay off. You make a hundred grand at your current job without the two full-time. Why is it going to take you so long that you think you're going to cause trauma to your kids?

I think you could clean it up with the current income if you just got your expenses down. you can get out of 10 grand of debt and save up another 25 pretty quickly making six figures. So, I

don't know that your plan is necessary.

I would like to see what we can do on the expenses side before we go to up the income. But either way, if this is a short period, like 6 months to go hard at this, your kids will be like, "Wait, what? What happened when I was two?" >> I don't have any recollection.

>> Not not not ringing a bell. Yeah.

>> So, I wouldn't worry about it. But way to go, Marco, for being willing to go all in and having a spouse that's on board. That's a good sign. Sarah is in Boston up next. What's going on, Sarah?

>> Hi, George. Hi, Ken. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um, so sadly last month, my mother-in-law passed away.

>> Um, and she left Thank you. Thank you.

Um, she left two paid off properties to my husband and his two sisters. Um, and the siblings have agreed to sell the primary residence, but my husband wants to keep the other home. Um it's a small cottage on Cape Cod. Um and he plans to use his share of the primary home sale to buy out his sisters.

>> Cool. >> Uh so yeah, but my dilemma is, you know,

emotionally my heart and my husband want to keep the this Cape house. Um, but my

logical side says that we should probably sell both properties to pay off

our mortgage faster and then become

completely debtree.

>> Wanted to get your advice. >> Yeah, thanks for the call. So, faster um

give us an real specific uh idea here.

In other words, if you don't sell these homes and put it all on your mortgage, how when do you anticipate paying off your primary home?

So, we only bought it about two years ago. Um, so we're looking at another 13

years or so, hopefully quicker. But, um, >> that's if you put nothing extra toward the principal, though, >> right? Yes. Exactly. >> What's your income?

>> Um, we make around 310,000

a year. >> What's on the mortgage? What's left?

>> 560. >> Okay. So, uh, I'm trying to find a compromise here, and I think I have one.

What if we keep keep the cottage, but we agree to a plan to then pay off this home more aggressively?

>> I surprised by that plan, but I think that sounds >> Why are you >> Why are you surprised?

>> I thought we were going to be told to sell everything and uh pay off our primary. >> Well, you're not in any kind of dire situation. >> You're not broke. You make $300,000.

>> You guys are killing it. This is really an inheritance that he's just sort of rearranging. >> And here's the here's I I love George and I of course this is all live. I didn't know I didn't know what he was going to say. >> Usually I disagree with Canon. I'm the more aggressive one and I'm actually pretty relaxed now. >> I couldn't agree more with George.

>> I want to be in this cottage in Cape Cod. >> I do too. That was the first thing I was like a cottage in Cape Cod doesn't come along very often was a B. >> Right. You told us that both you and your husband's hearts were in the

cottage. You were like, "We love it." And that was be for me. That was like, "Oh, there's the onetwo punch." And then when I got the rest of the story, I I I again, we always try to give advice >> on what would we do if we were in your shoes.

And that's what I would do. I would keep this cottage and have fun with it, make

memories. It's an asset. Uh, I love the

idea of him buying out his siblings. I think that's great. You're cash flowing that. >> I just don't see any reason to not take this opportunity.

>> What's your mortgage payment every month? >> Um, it's around 4,000.

>> Okay. So, making $310,000 amazing income. Could we throw another four or 5,000 a month at this? Could we just double it?

We we could definitely take a look and get there. >> I think if we looked at the budget and sit down with your husband and go, "Okay, here's the deal. I called the Ramsay Show. Here's what they said.

We get to keep the cottage, but we pay off this house in 6 years." >> Yeah, I think he would be completely on board. He's going to be thrilled. >> I'm going to throw a possibility that again I wouldn't do. So, I want to say that I wouldn't do this and you'll understand, >> but you could do it.

you're not going to be up there vacationing all the time. You could rent that and take that income and put it

into the primary home and really speed this up. In other words, let's and I'm this is way low, but let's say you cleared 50,000 on that cottage from

renting it. Uh, and you put that towards your primary home just in one year. I mean, that's a pretty big chunk. I would consider that.

I don't think >> we have considered that. Yeah, we've considered renting because realistically we'll probably only be there three to four weeks. >> Again, it's something I wouldn't I would want it to keep it as mine and it's I don't want people ruining my rental. But if you guys feel good about it, there's nothing you're not violating any principles and it's a it could be a wise thing to do if you can make money off of it and it's paid for.

So there you're not trying to like arbitrage and you know, well, they're paying the mortgage for us. >> You're you're covering the expenses just fine.

>> Yes, we have done that in the past.

>> There was a [laughter] lot of hesitation there for the camel. I >> I think she thought I was serious. I was kidding. I would never do that.

I'm just a joke. It was a bad joke. >> Yeah, we're not going to pay full price. >> You are invited anytime.

[laughter] Come on down. >> No, I love it. I love this plan. And I think go use our mortgage payoff calculator at ramiesolutions.com and start to have some fun and dream with your husband and go, "Okay, if we did an extra four grand a month, we doubled the payment.

We could pay it off in like >> six years." And likely what happens is you pay it off in four or five because you guys are so focused with one singular goal. And I think that's that's the key here. You be in agreement about every single decision and find some compromise. That's okay.

>> Your husband's going to be thrilled. I'd get him some turtlenecks, maybe some chowder, >> you know.

>> That was pretty close. >> Not bad. >> Yeah. I mean, Sarah doesn't have a thick Boston accent, [music] so No, >> I feel like you're at least thicker than hers. >> Oh, good. >> I do like a thick chow, though.

>> I do, too. I do, too. >> Thank you, Sarah. Wicked good call. This is the [music] Ramsay Show.

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>> [music]

>> Hey, George. Guess what?

>> What? The all new Every Dollar is here.

You're wearing >> That was a setup, Ken. I thought you really had something for it. >> I know. I kind of like to do that. Uh >> I almost said chicken butt to be honest.

[laughter] >> I refrained. >> Wow. But yet you said it anyway. Yeah.

>> So, there you go. Uh, so I uh met with the team the other day. This the new every dollar is amazing. You hear this and I go I I'll be the judge of that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know what I mean? I'm a little bit of a not a true cynic, >> but you're like, you want to see it to believe it. >> I would like to arrive at my own conclusion, not have a marketer tell me.

So, I had a meeting with the Every Dollar folks. You know, I was blown away by >> what's that? the uh 12 to 15 minutes of questions when you initially get in there. And I said to them, I go, "This is literally a more robust version of

someone calling in the show and getting our coaching. You're going to get eight minutes, eight, nine minutes with us.

>> 24/7 in your pocket is >> 247." And then I found out that for now,

and I told the people the other day, I don't know how how long Dave's gonna let this one go. >> But you also can get a 10-minute call with a real live financial coach.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> In addition to the articles, the here's

what you need to do. So, I I'm just telling you when I say it's no longer a budgeting app, I mean it. It really is.

>> Yeah. The group personal coaching, that's some of the best features. It's a digital financial coach that, oh, by the way, has a phenomenal budgeting functionality to it. That's my take.

What do you say? >> I actually just came from a lunch with those guys and they were showing me what they're working on. >> Mind blown. >> Oh, boy.

>> The functionality the or moving just past it being budgeting and more like how do we track all the pieces of your financial life so you get a real holistic picture and you know what to do next. That's where this thing is heading and you can come along for the ride and check it out. >> People where they get it. >> Go get it in the App Store or Google Play.

Just search every dollar. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Like Ken mentioned, you got nothing to lose except maybe your stress. >> Oh, well played.

I see what you did there.

Adam, how can we help?

>> Hi. How are you guys doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> We're doing great. What's going on with you? >> So, my wife is an avid listener to your show. >> Well, of course she is. You married a good woman. Tell her we said thank you. >> I did. I did. I will. Um, I honestly,

just being honest, I don't listen to it very much unless she's in the car with me. But I have >> Okay, let's put Adam on hold. Who's next? Who do we have next? I'm kidding, Adam. I'm kidding. Go ahead.

>> But I have listened to the Audible book, Money Makeover. And let me just say 95%

of the things in there I 100% agree with. It's preaching to the choir. But there's one thing that you guys preach that uh my wife agrees with and I don't.

>> Oh, I love it. What is it?

>> That is paying off your mortgage.

>> I'll give you a little >> What a silly idea.

>> Right. [clears throat] No. >> So, we have a a $327,478.50

mortgage right now. Okay.

>> With a 3.625 interest rate. And I have

been very adamantly against paying that off for the last several years because

if we invest our money very conservatively, very safely, high yield savings account, money market account, it's been at 4 and a half to 5% for the last several years. Just recently it got down to 3.8. And my question to you is

why oh why would I pay off my mortgage

when I can make more having it in

conservative basically guaranteed money versus uh at 3.8 versus uh you know

getting back 3.625 by paying it off.

>> Adam would you believe >> 3.2,000 a year >> right now. Would you believe you're the first person to ever hit us with that?

>> I figured I wasn't but uh again I Here's

the question. You are not the first person. You are correct, sir. George, Telmoy, do you have $327,000 sitting in that savings account?

>> Uh, so not a savings. So, we've got uh

in money market account right now, we have enough to pay off our house. >> That's what I'm saying. So, you have the money to pay it off. >> Oh, yes, sir. And >> but you like to see it grow at 3.8%.

Which, by the way, you owe taxes on all the money you're making from that. You understand that? So, it's not apples to apples already. The interest can be written off taxes wise.

So >> the mortgage interest is what you're saying because you guys itemize every year. >> Correct. >> Okay. So I can give you the logical math answer and that's where you're going to want to spar.

But it's so far beyond that. And what your wife is getting at is it's not about the math. She does not care if you guys could make a thousand and you didn't that year because you paid off the mortgage. Because the other part you're not taking into account is once you free up that mortgage payment, number one, you can invest that amount and you'll likely be back to where you were pretty quickly.

I assume you guys have a great income the way you're talking. >> Uh, pretty good.

>> Okay. So, can we agree that you could save up 300,000 bucks pretty quickly with your income if you had zero debt?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. Next question. Are you going to be

broke in retirement if you pay off your mortgage and liquidate that investment account? No, absolutely not. >> So, the argument is, do I want 5.6 million in retirement when I am 63 or

will it be 5.3 but with a paid for mortgage?

>> Can we agree that's kind of what we're It's kind of like both scenarios are pretty great. We can agree there.

>> Yeah. >> The other question, are you both working full-time right now?

>> Yes. >> Now, let's play this out. What if somebody lost their job, had a health situation, there was a recession, all of

the factors that can happen in life to where now you go, "Oh gosh, I'd rather not have a mortgage when life comes at me." >> So that's why I have the money in things where I'm not going to lose. I'm not going to put this money in the S&P 500

or some one of the markets that can fluctuate day by day. This isn't something that is safe like I was talking about either high yield savings accounts or the money market to where I can take that money out any time. If we did lose our job or let's say the money market or high yield savings accounts got down to 3.5. I could just take that

money and pay off the mortgage that day.

>> Okay. Well, have fun having a disagreement in your marriage for the rest of your life. >> Oh, I'm kidding.

>> That's not fair. >> Her security glands flaring up. It's not because of Ramsay. It's because there's something in her that knows that peace is more than just the spread. And that's what she's after. Nobody can come after your house. You own it free and clear.

If life happens, you're going to be okay. And the truth is, you're probably going to be okay either way. And so

paying it off, do you really think you'd sit there and go, gosh, I could have made $5,000 this year off that savings

account. Or you going to go, man, it feels good to not have a mortgage. And the flexibility we now have, the options we now have, the freedom we now have was well worth it.

Yeah, and I agree. I think it's a little bit of both. I think uh nobody's ever going to regret not having a mortgage.

Nobody's going to say, "Man, I wish I had my mortgage back." But uh you know, part of me would always be like, "Ah, gosh, that's $2,000 this year. I could have bought a new >> How much do you guys make something?" You know, >> um I do about 140 150 a year and she

does uh probably $200 250.

>> Okay. So, $2,000 is a drop in the bucket. We can both It's like kind of saying I'm doing the credit card game for the rewards. I like getting two grand free and I know it's not a big amount, but it just feels nice, >> right?

>> Yeah. You know, I'm sitting here listening, by the way, I'm always on this side like either I'm on with Dave or I'm on with a money personality and this call comes in and I'm always just sitting here, you know, it's like letting them do it and I'm like and I'm just listening for what's really going on.

there's two things. I heard you say a minute ago and George started talking.

He talked over he was so rude. So, I didn't pick up what he what you said, but I thought you said about the $2,000

>> and then she's like, I could have bought a mountain bike. Did you say that or am I hearing things? >> Yeah, I was I was just kidding around.

But yeah, could you But see, you weren't.

I I'm not a money expert, but I can tell you this. I've coached over 15,000 people live before. I'm an expert at hearing things and seeing things. And when I heard that, I went, "That's not a joke." And I'm going to tell you what I think's going on with this thing between you and your wife because George has explained it beautifully. So I have nothing to add to that. But let me tell you what I think's going on.

>> Your wife is looking at this emotionally and you're looking at this logically.

And I think you look at all money things as logic. Nothing wrong with that at all. You're a smart guy. You're not a goofball. You're not a loser. You've been very wise with money.

I just think you're going to have to decide in this situation, how important

is it to me to make the $2,000 every

year and either bank it or buy the mountain bike off of my interest and I feel so good about my logical choice or

do I want to meet my wife where she is and where she is emotionally and help her feel safe. I think that's the choice. That's my read and I think you just look at it totally different than she does. I don't think you need to walk a mile in her shoes for a little bit.

[music] >> The question is, is it worth paying 12 grand in interest to make 12 grand in a savings account? Basic math tells me it's a wash, dude. I'm just going to pay it off and get some peace in my life and happy wife.

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you all are with us. We're having fun today as we take on your heavy questions. George is going to help you manage the money. I'm going to help you try to make more money. Let's get to it.

You ready to go, George? >> I'm pumped. Natalie is joining us in Sacramento. Natalie, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I was just curious if my husband and I should use part of our savings to start to pay off our loans faster or if

we should just keep that in the bank.

>> Tell us more.

>> How much do you have in the bank? >> My husband and I are both veterans. Um,

we have about 12,500 in savings.

>> Okay. Okay. And what's your debt situation?

>> Um, we have about $87,298

in debt. We have two student loans and a

new car and a credit card.

>> Okay. Give us those amounts. Walk us smallest to largest like we would be working through the debt snowball.

>> Yeah, the uh credit card is 1903.

So 1,93.

The student loan is 19581.

The other one is 20,978.

And then the car loan is 44836.

>> Woo. What is this car?

>> Yeah.

So, uh, it's a 2022 4Runner.

>> And what what is it worth? Kelly Blue Book value. Do you know?

>> I don't.

>> Okay. Wow. How many miles is it?

>> Um, just over 30,000.

>> And it's a 2022. I'm going to do a little research, George. Okay. While you do that, what is your household income?

>> Um, so our income is

I have this um

between the two paychecks is 4,960.

And then we get VA disability and that's

about 4,080 4,90. >> Okay, good. So, we have a great income here cuz you guys are bringing home >> Yeah. >> 9 grand. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, I think one thing that could alleviate this immediately you're asking the best way to pay this off. Yes. You should use your savings except $1,000.

That's the baby steps. Baby step one, $1,000. Maybe step two, attack the debt using the debt snowball. So, anything that's not the thousand starter emergency fund, we're going to use to start knocking down this debt because that'll knock out your credit cards and a good portion of one of the student loans.

>> Yeah. >> And if I'm in your shoes and you really want to get out of the situation, I would just sell this 4Erunner. Now, you might be underwater on it, which is what Ken was angling at. >> They are. It's this is an estimate and I don't have all the details where you are in the market, but you're underwater.

It's somewhere between 32 to $40,000.

>> So, that's your next homework assignment is figure out what you could sell this car for, private party value. So, you can go to kbb.com and and look at that to see, hey, if we could sell it for 40 and we owe 44, great. We're going to use 4,000 of the savings to clear the title and maybe use some of the other money in savings to get a different car, right?

You need something to drive around in.

>> Mhm. >> You're both working full-time.

>> Yeah. His truck has paid off. So, it's just this now. My car died, so I had to get a new one. That's kind of >> Hold on. Hold on. Whoa. You didn't have to get a 40. You didn't have to get backwards. >> I know. >> You didn't have to get that car. >> I know. I know. >> So, what's your what's your car payment?

>> Uh 60. Wait, $667.

>> All right. Just for fun, I want you to just, you know, figure out what that would do to your monthly budget. That's a lot of money. you would get an $8,000.

That's a net raise. So that's more like 11 or 12,000 gross.

>> Yeah. >> So imagine I just started giving you a,000 bucks a month. Would you go, "Yep." >> Yeah. >> That's what selling that car will do for you. And you have to look at it that way. Or else it's Ken and George are mean. They're not fun. They're telling me it's unrealistic.

Well, it's not.

>> But you know, getting a piece of junk that gets you from point A to point B for this season of your life. This is for a season. And this is not like forever. Uh I I think that's huge for you. What caused you guys to want to actually turn this ship around?

>> Uh I've been listening to you guys on YouTube a lot the past month. So

>> So we just got into your head cuz we didn't show up. You had to be kind of looking >> we want to we want to move out of California and we want to eventually adopt and get a house and all that. And

I know we cannot do that with all this debt. We need to work on this debt now.

>> Good. Is your husband on board? Is he as fired up as you are? >> Oh, yeah. Completely. >> And you got the income. >> Completely. He's actually wanting me to spend more to to pay towards the debt than we have been. But >> what's stopping it? >> Yeah. That's >> uh I've been trying to build up our savings. I'm thinking about for what, you know, putting money down on a house.

No, no, no. That's too far in the future. I know. I see that now.

I see that. You've been listening to us for a month. >> So, have you heard us talk about the baby steps? I I don't want to just assume anything.

>> Yes. Okay. >> I I And that's why I'm like, "Okay, well, I've done step one. Technically, I'm on step two, but I have part of step three, but I need to just stop and do it step by step." >> Well, you've got 125 in savings.

So, what what do we tell people to do if they've got $12,500 in savings and they have debt? What do we tell them?

>> Pay it towards the debt. >> How much how much do we take out of that 125?

>> Well, I'm assuming it's going to be the 115. >> You got it. Tell her what she's won.

George, uh, raise to the tune of a thousand dollars once we sell this car.

So, here's what I would consider doing instead of using the savings to pay down the debt. I would get out of this car situation first. And so you might be underwater by a few grand. That's true.

>> Let's let's use that to clean that up.

Then we're going to take, let's say, another six or 7,000 and get yourself a used reliable car. Do a pre-purchase inspection. It's probably going to have a 100,000 plus miles on it. It's probably going to have some stains that you'd rather not see. But this is for a season. This is not your forever car.

This is like a year or two max as we get to a place of financial stability because you told me you want to adopt.

That's a big dream of yours, isn't it?

>> Mhm. >> You want to have your own place, your own house in a different state. That's a big dream of yours, isn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, that dream is bigger than a vehicle.

We can always get another car, can't we?

>> Yep. >> So, most of that savings, uh, not most, but a good chunk of it's going to go to whatever this beater is, right? And I'm thinking a $5,000 car max >> that that clears half your debt. That's like cutting your jail sentence in half.

That car payment now goes into the debt snowball. >> That's huge. You can make some real groundup, can't you?

>> Yeah. >> So, your husband's right. It's rare that we say this on the show. It's mostly the wife is usually right. And I've been married 27 years, so I'm conditioned to say my wife is right. But in this case, your husband's right. You need to be putting more into this. And you guys are rice and beans. If Dave were here, he'd be going, "You guys don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're waiting tables." And it's rice and beans, beans

and rice. >> And you guys are just absolutely on fire to get this out of your life. That same

intensity continues into that emergency

fund of 3 to 6 months. Now we can begin

to save for the house and begin to charge. >> Check this out. You knock out this car, you got 42 left, and you start throwing four or five grand a month at it. You're done with this in 8 months.

>> Woo! I like that.

>> So, this house is going to be a whole lot closer versus keeping this [music] car around while it goes down in value.

You stay underwater. I think this thing is is tanking your financial future. Get rid of it. You know what Bear Grills would say? What's that? Jolly good.

Spot on. Not quite. I'm working on it.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back, America. Thrilled that you've joined us here on the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. The phone number is 88825-5225.

Back to the phones we go. Steve is joining us now in Houston. Steve, how can we help? >> Yeah. Hey, thanks uh Ken and George for taking my call. Um, I've got a uh question. When my son and daughter were born, my wife and I made lumpsum contributions to their 529s and their

UTMA account and now they're 9 and 12.

And those accounts have grown to be over $1.3 million.

>> Wow. >> I wanted to >> Yeah. I wanted to ask you guys what you thought uh I we should be doing to

prepare them whether you know we have wills and other other things. What we

should be doing to prepare them you know

for the future.

>> So these are not college savings plans.

Half half of the lump sum went into a 529 for each of them and then half went into a UT UTMA account for kind of ancillary expenses they might have.

>> Okay. In total, those add up to 1.3 million >> today, right? >> Okay. And how old are the kids? >> Nine and 12. >> Nine and 12. >> Oh wow. What was the lump sum?

>> The initial lumpsum for each of the 529s was 141,000. We had we had saved before they were born and made that contribution when they were. >> That's incredible. Okay. And the do we think we're going to use obviously a portion of this for college expenses?

>> You know, it's hard to say. I'd like to I'd like to say that they'll make their own decision when the time comes. Uh, you know, I have my own feelings, but it's it's I think they'll use the 529s,

uh, at least some of it.

>> Okay. And the the UTMAs, you got the UTMAs, those will transfer to them. I don't know what the in Texas what the uh laws are, but is it 18 or 21?

Okay. >> Depending on your state. So, I would look that up to see. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm not >> Because that's that's the downside of the UTMA is your kid. It'll be legally in their name at, you know, 18, a million bucks.

>> Yeah. >> And so, they can do what they want with that as adults. And so, that's a there's a risk there. I hope they grow up to be, you know, welladjusted kids who use the money for good and they buy their first home in cash and do all kinds of amazing things because you guys, I'm guessing, have set them up for that.

That's the goal. That that's the goal. And look, they're already listening to you guys. So, good.

Uh hopefully they do they do exactly what you said. >> Okay. So, what is your question today specifically? >> What what else should we be doing?

>> Well, as they you know, a 9-year-old

doesn't have any assets. A 12-year-old doesn't have any assets. as they get of age of 18 or 21 and those accounts go

into their names, that's when I would say, "Hey, let's now set them up with their own wills." >> Okay. So, that's not something we would need to address now. We would just wait until they're say 21 or 18.

>> Exactly. Cuz right now, you're still you still maintain the management of that account of both of those accounts.

>> So, if something did happen to you know you or your spouse, well, you have in your will, here's what happens. here's the beneficiaries on all of these accounts. And so all of that is already in place. And with your trust, you can set those up to say, "Hey, at 21, here's some here's what we want to do for each kid.

At 30, here's what we're going to do for the kids." >> So you can set that up how you wish in the trust. But there's nothing else to do. You guys have done a great job.

>> Okay. Well, that's that's good to know.

>> They could use it for their kids and their kids. So you've kind of created generational wealth that way, which is amazing. >> Okay. >> So I would look into the laws of how soon you have to use that money. There's some new things with the Secure 2.0 act where you can transfer a portion uh 35,000 total over to a Roth IRA. So there's a lot of things you can do there. I would definitely I I hope you have a trustworthy investment professional in your life. If not, go to ramseyolutions.com and get connected over there.

>> Yeah, >> that's incredible. What a way to set up your kids. >> I'm staggered by that. That amount is unbelievable. So, my goodness. I almost wanted to say to him, and I love the advice you gave, but I almost wanted to said, "Well, you've done enough.

>> You've done plenty, my friend. >> You've done well, Steve. Way to go." >> And the fact that a nine and 12-year-old are listening to us.

>> They need to get outside, Ken.

>> They probably do. Or else they're going to look as pale as you.

>> That's true. I could use some sun. I'm not on the pickle ball court as often.

>> Yeah. But what do you have an aversion to vitamin D? I mean, what's the problem? >> Well, you know, I'm working in here all day. A lot of fluorescent. What are you doing on the weekend? >> I got a one-year-old, man. Take her to the park. Wow. Now I'm a bad dad all of a sudden. >> Well, maybe you need some vitamin D. Let's go to Rebecca who joins us in Orlando, Florida. Rebecca, how can we help?

>> Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I are new empty nesters. We are baby

step three and I will be inheriting about 50,000 next spring. We have 250,000 and for saving plans and IAS for

our retirement and once I turn 65, I'll

have about a small pension of about $500 a month. I was just wondering um in the

next 13 years or so that we have before retirement, is it smart to even

aim for or try to be a stalbert? We live

in Florida now, but we're from Ohio. My husband has always wanted to move back and I have always wanted to grow up and be a snowbird one day where I lived half the year in one state and half the year in the other. Is that something Dave ever recommends?

>> I don't think he's against that. I've never heard him speak negatively toward it. The one thing you I mean financially speaking you'd pay cash for that other property, >> right? So, in that in that mindset, we

own our home now, but we owe about 120

on it. It's worth 250. We're in Florida

now. Um, so I mean, we've got about halfway paid off. The 50,000 inheritance is going to go right at that. >> And you like where you're at? >> I'll help pay that off. We like it, but we're not determined to stay here. It's it's like I I would be fine with a one-bedroom or a tiny house in retirement if I could have live in both states. My husband would some space >> I mean six months out of the year that's a big chunk that's not exactly a week.

And so I would look at you know properties that where you could stay all year if you wanted to that are comfortable enough. But I I see nothing wrong with your plan as long as we are paying off the mortgage, we have the emergency fund in place. We're investing for the future. we have a solid nest egg.

Uh so don't go rob your retirement in order to pay cash for this property in Ohio. You want to make sure that we're saving up for that separately over the next, you know, decade or whatever your timeline is. >> It's doable. >> Okay.

>> Do you know if it's smarter to rent

um the half a year and just own a home in one state? Because I know Dave's like, you know, you don't want to own property in another state or far away from you because you have to manage it and look for it. If you're talking about renting it out, would you guys want to rent it out the other half of the year? Would that be the goal?

>> No, probably not.

>> You just want to keep a few. Dave doesn't want strangers in his house where he's going to stay half the year. I can tell you that. >> But but but other people can and that's perfectly fine. So is the question, would you rent in Ohio for half the half the year and then go back to Florida

>> or vice versa? Yes. Because right now, like I know the homes around here rent for about 2,000 a month in the winter months. I live basically in the village of um >> what would rent cost you in what would rent cost you in Ohio?

>> It's I think it would be around 1300 a month right now. Of course, you know, 13 years from now. >> I think I don't know what George thinks, but George is also not as fun as I am and he doesn't he's not as carefree and spontaneous. >> We can all admit that. >> I I but I don't I don't hate that idea

as long as it's in the budget. In other in other words, if because if you get tired of it, you still got your place in Florida and it feels like we're starting to go, hey, it would kind of be fun to go back to Ohio for a while from our roots, but we really like Florida. So, it feels like Florida's the anchor. So, renting in Ohio, a it's cheaper.

>> Can I show you some numbers? Because I agree with Ken. There's nothing wrong with renting and I would test it out for the first year by doing that. But look at this. $2,000 a month for 6 months.

It's 12 grand a year, right?

>> Mhm. >> So, let's say the house was 400 grand you could buy. Well, you could rent for 33 years before you've spent 400 grand in rent. Yeah.

>> Now, you don't own an asset at the end of that, but if that's a choice you make, that's totally fine if you don't want to hassle with it. But then again, you got to find a place to rent every single year for 6 months, which might be difficult on its own. I don't know many places would let you do that. >> I agree.

But the spontaneous natur spontaneous nature of it. I also think it, you know, you're not paying for the housing [music] expenses like all the upkeep. It's kind of intriguing. I kind of like it.

Maybe do it for a year or two and then if you want to buy, you go buy in cash. I tried to talk Stacy and let us rent our place for Thanksgiving and make some big cash.

This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show where we help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. We're so excited that you're with us on the debtree stage out there are Lucas and

Alexis. Welcome.

>> Thank you. >> How you guys doing? >> We're doing great. Happy. >> You're doing good. Okay. Good. Good. Good. And that tells me you're here to do a debtree scream. Is this true?

>> This is true. >> This is true. Okay. Great. Where are you guys from? >> We're from Clarksville, Tennessee. >> Okay. Not far away. >> Right off the road. Okay. Very nice. Traffic was good this morning. I hope >> it wasn't too bad. >> Okay. Nice. Nice. Nice. All right. Let's get the details. How much debt did you pay off? We paid off $81,188.

>> $81,88.

Is that what I heard? >> $81,188. Correct.

>> 1888. Excuse me, George. I don't know what's going on with my voice here. We'll get you there. >> Yeah. I took a week off for spring break and it's like my vocal cords are gone. I don't know what's going on. Uh, and how long did that take? >> It took 14 months. >> 14 months. Okay. And what was your range of income during that time? >> Range of income was 72,000 all the way up to about 86,000.

>> Okay. Great. Hey, what do you guys do for a living? >> I'm military. >> Okay. >> I stay home with the children. >> Yay. Love that. That's awesome. And uh what branch of military are you in? >> Army. >> Okay, great. Thank you for your service.

Thanks for your support. >> Yeah, absolutely. All right. So, uh take us to 14 months ago. What happened that

made you guys decide to get on this journey? >> Well, it was about nine months before we started that our firstborn Leila over there, she was born and she just turned two the other day. Uh well, we transitioned to one income and you know, we were doing okay, but we weren't really just weren't saving enough that we wanted to. We weren't investing as much as we wanted to.

We knew that we wanted to optimize things in one way or another. And so, we found the Ramsay show and uh I started listening to it on my commute to work and I brought it to Alexis here and I said, "Hey, I think we can maybe pay our debt off in a year, maybe a little bit more." That's how it worked out. but she took it and uh she did a budget for us and she said, "Wow, I think I think we could do this." And so that's exactly what we did and we just kind of stepped it in gear from there and then uh just recently we had Claire here.

She's 3 months old and >> so fun. So So what I understand here this was uh there wasn't a lot of push back at all if any from Alexis.

Sounds like >> that's correct. >> Wow. What kind of debt was it?

>> It was uh student loans. It was a

personal loan. It was a car loan, a

little bit of credit card, and some medical debt. A little bit of everything. Pretty pretty normal. >> Yeah, you had a nice little buffet. >> Little popie, if you will. Cornucopia.

>> That's even better. >> So, were you guys just normal? Like, how long you been married now? >> Almost three years.

>> And you' never been debtree. You got married, had some debt, kept some debt, acrewed some debt, and then there was this wakeup call when you go down to one income where you're like, "All right, things are tight. This is not as fun as I thought it would be. Even with the blessing of of children and so you got your butts and gear and just 14 months into this thing, it's gone now and you got your income back in your life.

>> Well, I'm just really excited to start uh building that emergency fund up eventually start investing and then saving for our girls college >> and then yeah, taking it from there. So, >> and you guys, I mean, you look very young. >> Can you tell us? >> 27. >> Wow. >> I'm 25. 25 and 27 and you got this stuff

out of your life. And I love that there was no excuses made. You didn't sit and wallow in pity and go, "Well, this is life. This is the American way.

Collect our payments. Someone will forgive the student loans at some point. These credit card companies, at least I'm getting my 2%." You guys actually woke up to this. Was there a a tool, a resource, something that gave you that new knowledge?

>> Well, the podcast gave us a lot of inspiration and uh specifically the debtree screams.

>> Yeah. Talk about the community of people that you had with you. >> Oh yeah. So my parents are here with us.

Uh there's some they were some of our biggest cheerleaders and then I've got to shout out my grandparents. They were doing the Ramsay plan before the Ramsey plan was cool. >> Yeah.

>> We drew a lot of inspiration from them as well. >> Just common sense debtfree living.

That's correct. >> Oh, that's incredible. >> So, you got some other young couples, you got middle-aged couples, maybe maybe you got some older couples that are listening right now. >> Yes. >> What would you tell them? >> We have uh we have some good friends, uh Adam and Emily Fisher. They're actually going through the plan right now. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah. So, they kept us in it and we're keeping it, you know, with them and we're, you know, staying the path together. >> Yeah. Make the budget and stick to it.

>> So, you're So, for you it's budget, budget, budget. That's the key. All right. Anything else, Lucas?

What's the key? >> Budget's big. I think uh consistency is also a big thing. You know, life happens and you got to replace the tires and the car breaks down, but you can't let it take you too too far off the path.

You got to get right back on and get get back into it. So, >> well, I know you've inspired a whole new set of people out there. So, you're paying this forward, especially for those service members out there. I mean, the difference that it makes when you're debtree and you're making the sacrifice, but you're not worried about the finances at home.

That makes all the difference. >> It really does. That's huge.

All right. So, are we ready? Are we going to get the Are we going to get the little kiddos up here?

>> I mean, I I think we can. >> It looks like Is it Claire, the youngest? Yeah. >> She in a slumber right now.

>> She's out cold. >> She's about to wake up from the scream anyways. So, we'll see. We got And the 2-year-old's meandering somewhere around the lobby.

There she goes with the parents. >> Okay, good. We got the kiddos, >> all the support. >> So, we got Leila, who's two, and Claire is a newborn.

>> I hope you're watching on YouTube America because this might be the cutest family you'll see today.

Okay. All right. Here we go. Let's run it down. We got Lucas uh and Alexis along with Claire and Leila. They're from Clarksville, Tennessee, and they paid off $81,188 over 14 months, making $72,000 up to

$86,000.

Lucas and Alexis, take it away. Let's hear your debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> There it is.

>> And the babies aren't crying. So, that was the baby survived it. Yeah, I like that. >> And we've got a special gift for you guys as well.

We forgot to mention two Every-Doll gift cards. Good for a one-year membership. So, you guys can use those every dollar memberships or you can pay them forward to someone else to get them on the journey. But, uh you said the key is budgeting and so you will enjoy that uh for sure as you continue your financial journey.

>> That is your gift and you get to give one away to somebody. I like that idea.

>> I like the two. >> Maybe you give both away if they already have it. But, you know, >> that is true. Or >> you use it for yourself. There's no judgment here. >> No judgment at all. It's free. It's Dave's stuff. You and I love to give away Dave's stuff for free.

>> It cost us nothing and it makes Ken look good. >> That's right. >> We love it. It's like a bumper sticker. I like that. You know, it's interesting, George, when we because this is really cool. We got a 27 and a 25year-old. And

I think it's important to kind of We got new people that are joining the show all the time. So maybe this is the first debt free scream that some people have ever heard or seen. >> Yeah. >> I mean just set the table right now.

Okay. So um let's say they're let's say they're making the 86 or maybe somewhere between the 72 and 86. Now they're debtfree. >> Mhm. >> Um and so now they begin the process of whether it's baby step three then 3B,

you know, and then they start that 15%.

I I want you to paint a picture to what

wealth looks like for this young couple at their age. He's 25. Let's say they get through three in the next year and they begin investing it. Let's say he's 26. >> Well, from 26 to let's say 62. That's

fair, right? >> Sure. >> And in military, he'll probably retire early with a beautiful some beautiful benefits there. But let's just take $86,000 and take 15% of that. Well, that's 129. And so every month, they could invest $1,75.

And let's say they start from zero. That 175 every single month with an average return of about 10% which is what we've seen is $4.5 million. All right, drop 62

years old. >> Drop it down to 8%. >> All right, let's go down to eight. Let's be more conservative. 2.7 million.

>> Okay, >> I'd still take that. And that's outside of any other investing they do. That's saying he never gets a raise.

>> That doesn't include his military retirement. So, this is just the process as we teach it. And you look at doing it that young. It's really huge.

And and this this is great, too, because this is a young couple that had again uh normal situations, all different types of debt, $81,000, and they knocked it out really quick. That's really doable. I mean, $81,000, if you just look at that and you go, that's a lot of money to pay off for a young couple. They did it in 14 months.

>> Wild cash flowing some things. We didn't get into that. Yeah. >> Uh and with with a with a stay at home spouse, that's huge.

So, we're not pitching get-rich stuff

here, quick stuff. We're not pitching, you know, this unbelievably impossible thing that only a few fortunate souls accomplished. >> Yeah, there was no trust funds, no lottery winners here, just hard work, sacrifice. >> It's doable. And that's why I love the story. So, good stuff. All right, we're going to go out and celebrate with Lucas, Alexis, Ila, and Claire. And George, don't don't kiss the babies.

>> I stay away. >> Okay, that's a little creepy these days.

Don't do that. We'll be back right after that with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey Show.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. [music] Our scripture today comes from Deuteronomy 11:12. It is a land the Lord your God cares for.

[music] The eyes of the Lord your God are continually on it from the beginning of the year to its end. Our quote [music] from Thomas Soul. My favorite New Year's resolution was to stop trying to reason with unreasonable people. This has reduced both my correspondence and my blood pressure. It's a good one. The great Thomas Soul always still hits.

Dropping the quotes. >> Timeless like they're hot. Dave is joining us in Maui, Hawaii. Dave,

>> how can we help? >> Aloha. >> Aloha, sir. Aloh. Boy, wish I was with you right now, pal. >> Sitting next to George, you know. Yeah,

>> but such is life.

>> So, in a nutshell, I uh 55, no

retirement, credit is shot.

Um own about

190 195 on my mortgage. My real estate's

worth about 4 million.

>> Whoa. >> Um yeah. Well, back in 2004 when they were

handing out mortgages like candy, I bought three homes and so I have, you

know, whatever rental property and then a home that I live in. >> How much do you owe? How much do you owe on the $4 million worth of property?

>> 1901 195.

>> Oh, that's not bad. >> But here's the kicker. Here's the kicker. >> Okay. So, I owe God $200,000 in taxes

that I haven't filed.

>> Why? >> When's the last time you filed?

>> Yeah, because I sold two years ago.

Because I sold a home and then

um I bought a you know, like like I said, they were handing out You remember that when they were >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we're trying to follow Where's the cash? Where's the cash that you made? I bought another I I

bought two more homes and I I paid them

off cash. Yeah, in cash, but I didn't

pay the taxes on that sale.

>> So, what's your question for us?

>> I guess I got to pay the taxes.

>> Well, that's not a question. That's a fact. >> Well, but I So, I got But I don't have the money. So, I guess I got I got to sell.

I don't Well, you know, I have three kids. I just put one through college.

They have another one in college. I you

know uh >> Well, let me tell you something. This this is this reminds me of a football game scenario. All right. You got you got no timeouts >> and you you you got to you got to go to the Hail Mary. That's all you got. You got to sling it to the end zone.

>> Your least favorite property. >> And so that's the Hail Mary in this one.

You don't have any other options. You got to pay these taxes or you're going to jail. Dave,

>> you mean am I missing something?

>> No. >> Okay. So, I mean, that's that's really what we've got to do here. You got to sell one of these properties, >> dude. Out [clears throat] of all the people you could owe money to, the IRS is the worst one. >> They are the most powerful collections agency in the world. They can garnish your wages. They can seize your assets.

>> So, do you want to do it the hard way or do you want to do it the easy way where you're in control?

>> What's your least favorite property? What's it worth? What could you sell it for?

>> A million. >> Okay, so you sell it for a million. Hold on a second. I got to tell >> I'm paying taxes on that again.

>> But Dave, I don't understand why you're so like

[clears throat] I mean you you literally sold and made money on you made a bajillion dollars. >> You did not pay your taxes. >> Yeah, I know. But this is Hawaii, so it's different here than it would be in Wisconsin. I mean, >> so what are the taxes owed if you sell this property?

>> No. No. Time out. We're getting off subject again. I was making a point, Dave. You're acting You're No, not football, but you're acting as though like this is this Oh, I can't believe I got This was always a part of the deal.

>> Because I want I want my kids to have, you know, uh >> they will they can visit you in jail if you want while you have these properties. That could be fun. >> We're only talking about one house to clear this debt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, let's rock through this. >> Yeah. I don't I don't know. I don't know. I'm just stressed out about it.

Obviously, that's why I'm not doing it.

>> Dave, listen to me. I know you're stressed. You're not thinking clearly. And George and I would like to help you think clearly. Will you let us help you think clearly?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's walk through this. George, let's let's walk George for a million.

What are your taxes owed? >> There you go. On this on the property sale, what will you owe in taxes?

>> Do the do the math. I don't know.

>> What do you mean you don't >> on the house that I haven't sold yet?

Yes. >> There'll be a what? A capital gains tax on it.

>> Yeah. I mean, I've had the property for 20 years. >> Let me ask this a simpler way, Dave. The property that we're saying, one of your properties, we're saying to sell to clear all this mess up, what will you walk away with, my friend, when the deal is done, what will you walk away with?

>> Uh, maybe six.

>> 600,000. How much do we owe the IRS?

>> Because I got to pay the two. I got to pay the two. I Dave, let me do the talking and you answer. Dave, let me walk you through this. I'm gonna be better at this than you. All right.

>> You're going to walk away with $600,000.

How much do you owe the IRS?

>> 200. >> Great. So, we pay that. How much does that leave you left over?

>> Well, that that So, if I sell it for a million, then >> he's saying he'll have six after he pays the IRS.

I don't know why this is so difficult to answer these questions. Dave, sell a house >> after I paid the tax on that, too. So, I'm I'm figuring 200 another 200 maybe or more. >> Let's just guesstimate 200 in taxes for the property sales.

200 pay back the IRS. You have 600 left. You can pay off your own mortgage with that. So, you got 600,000 you got out of this mess, my friend.

That's what we're trying to help you understand. This is easy. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You're sitting there going, "Ah, I don't want to get rid of one of the properties again. You want to go to jail?" >> They're going to seize your assets.

>> The question is, do you want to do it now on your terms or on their terms later, and I'm telling you, you want to do it now on your terms. So, your real estate portfolio will go down to $3 million, and you can wipe your tears with $100 bills. I don't care.

>> Yeah. None of us are feeling bad for you right now, Dave. You're you're really kind of blessed to be able to get out of this hole. Really blessed. I mean, holy

>> And then with the other money, with more profits, I'm paying off the mortgage and I'm saying no to debt ever again. It's what got you in this mess in the first place. >> Yeah. And so we got real stareyed with the real estate portfolio.

It's time to take a step back and go, "All right, I'm 55. I've been living with a lot of stress. The next 20, 30 years of my life, I want peace. I want to retire with dignity one day.

And that might mean I need to slow down on my real estate guru tactics here and start putting away money in retirement and start diversifying the portfolio and living on less than I make. >> I mean, this really is, you talk a lot about traps.

We're not picking on Dave. Dave's a smart guy. Thankfully, Dave can get out of this very well, >> but this is the trap of I've got all this stuff and I got I mean, he literally was like, I got to pay my taxes. >> And if anyone understands t, you know, not wanting to pay taxes, it's Ken Coleman. >> I don't like taxes at all. I mean, I'd go throw tea in the harbor that today.

I'd do all over again. I would I you know what? I would have been there. I would have been on the ship throwing the tea into the harbor. But the bottom line is you got to pay the taxes. And all of

this gain, to your point, doesn't matter if your life gets ruined because the IRS wants to make a poster boy out of you.

>> And here's what I do. When I'm in a pickle like this and it's beyond my pay grade, I reach out to an expert. And in this case, Dave needs a great tax pro.

So, I would jump on to ramseyolutions.com/tax.

Get in touch with a Ramsay trusted taxpro who can help you bring facts to the table. Right now, it's a lot of unknowns. It's a lot of just fear and stress and I don't even know how much taxes I can. What would the taxes be on that?

Well, a tax pro will just help you go, "All right, here's what the taxes would be. Here's the most efficient strategic way to do this. Here's how to deal with the IRS." And they're not going to be scared. They're not going to bat an eyelash at this.

>> And and again, to new listeners, okay, you've been listening to this call. This is I'm going to go back to the football analogy. Do you want to be stuck with no timeouts, 5 seconds left in the game, and hope for a miracle through a Hail Mary or a >> fourth down situation? >> Or do you No, you want to have a good game plan.

There's no need for all the stress.

Just run the baby steps like it's a play. This is what we do on first down.

This is what we do on second down. This is what we do on third down. And here's the deal. Guess what? We know how it's going to turn out. You know, we know if we run the ball this way and everybody executes their blocks, we're going to get a first down. >> Nobody wins the Sugar Bowl accidentally.

You got to be intentional. >> You You got to You got to get a game plan and you got to practice and you got to stay with it. So, there it is. >> Go dogs. >> No Hail Marys. No Hail Marys. Are you

really rooting for Georgia? You don't even know who they are. >> I know you love them. >> Yeah, I do. >> Doesn't that make me a great friend? [music] >> You are a good friend. All right. Good show today. Thanks to David Foron, our fearless producer, keeping us on the air. My goodness. I don't know how he does it in spite of ourselves. >> Thank you, America, for listening. This is the Ramsay Show.

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## 108. Managing Money Well Matters At Every Income Level | February 27, 2026


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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. The

phone number to jump in 888255225LE8825-55225.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. We're excited to be here to help you today. We started off with Lucas in Austin, Texas. Lucas, how can we help?

>> Hey, um I am calling in because I have

um I was looking for a way to like manage my finances better. Um and I'm 28

years old. I'm single. I have some

credit card debt as well as like some student loan debt.

>> Okay. So, just an overall direction is

what you're looking for from us.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Okay. Yeah. So, how much debt does all that total?

>> Uh, so it's probably closer to um about

30 30,000.

>> 30,000. Okay. How how much of that is credit card and how much is that student loan?

So, it's 14,500 in credit card and

student loan is about 20,000.

>> 20. Okay, cool. And how much do you make a year?

>> Um, I make about $32,000 a year or like

16 an hour. >> Okay. What do you do?

>> Um, I work in like mobile device repair

and sales. >> Okay. For like a cell phone company type thing in a store. Okay, >> basically. >> Perfect. >> Okay, great. Well, um, yeah, I'd love for Ken to jump in on just the the career side because I think you still have so much ahead of you. >> Where do you want to be?

>> Um, well, right now I'm kind of in an in between spot because, you know, um, I

like what I do and I like working with, you know, physical technology and things like that, but then like trying to

transition to something a little bit more, you know, viable for the future is what I'm looking into.

um probably trying to get into more like um like data [clears throat] processing and things like that. >> Okay. So, have you done enough research to know what what that could look like as far as position A, position B, position C?

>> Um not yet. I'm still kind of in the phase of trying to figure out like which direction to go with it. I mean, I've been looking into more like data science and um things like that. So, that's kind of where I'm at. Okay. And trying to transition my career path over there.

>> Okay. Well, real quick and then and we'll get back to Rachel here and kind of walk you through what you need to do. But, uh, you do need to increase your income. Um, and and and I'm saying that separate of us trying to figure out which long-term direction that you're going to go.

So, while you are in the process of discovery, uh, and I'm going to help you with that in just a moment, you still need to be making more money because right now at 28 and single with the debt you have, the one thing you have is time >> and you need to make time.

We're saying I need a second job and I

need to make an additional $2 to $3,000 a month. That would be the goal that I would give you. So, what you would do is say, "What can I do now that allow me to make an additional 2 to three grand a month?" Because you're at 32,000 a year, I believe, is what you said. And so, you need to increase that.

And that will allow you to get through the steps that Rachel's going to walk you through. But here's here's what I give you quick advice.

>> What I would do is is use this idea that I've introduced before called the proximity principle. And it's simply this. I want to get around people that are in the space or spaces that I'm considering. And that's lunch, that's coffees, that's hey, will you connect me to somebody over here that you know, and you want to do a good old-fashioned term paper and you're going to sit with this person and ask enough questions that you could do a term paper on their job.

We're talking high school term paper, nothing complex. And what you're doing there is is you're getting clarity on the role itself. what it takes to win in the role, what it takes to get qualified the role, how how I get placed, how I move up. And in doing all of that, your head and heart are going to get connected.

The head's the information, the heart will be the emotion to say, I'm excited about that. I'm going to do one thing. I'm going to give you at the end of the call. I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It has the Get Clear Assessment in it.

It's going to really help you. So, that's my gift to you. Okay?

>> Okay. I appreciate that. >> Yeah. Listen, more money. Now, Rachel,

he starts making more money. What does that look like to pay off his debt?

>> Yeah, because that those are your two big um parts of the equation, Lucas, is the income side and the expenses side.

But you're probably only bringing home what, three grand a monthish, >> would you say? >> It's more Yeah, it's closer to about two. >> Yeah, >> about 2,000 a month. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. >> How are you paying are you are you living at home?

So, I live with um two roommates. I only

pay about $600 a month and I rent two rooms in a house. >> Perfect. Good for you. That's that's great because the living expenses is

usually one of your highest line items in the budget. And so for a lot of people, they're paying, you know, a thousand, you know, even 2,000 for mortgages. I mean, it's just like it just can get so high. So that 600 is it it honestly I mean that that's a great place to be because honestly Lucas when you leave your job at 5:00 >> I would go work somewhere from 6:00 to 9 and I would do that four times a week and on and I would do one weekend and seriously if you can get $2 to $3,000 >> you could have you could have this all cleaned up in 10 months >> which is wild to think you could have all your debt paid off but you have to have a goal from a income perspective and that's going to be your biggest bag.

I don't think there's many expenses you probably can cut that's going to make that big of a difference. Do you know what I mean?

have the time >> and it's just going to be hard. It's just 10 months of just grinding it out.

But a lot of people do that, Lucas, sometimes for two, three years uh to get

on the other side of it. But I think that you uh yeah, there's there's a lot of upside. It's just going to be the work is the equation, that part of the equation that's going to be really big. And like Ken said, it's and it's not may not be career stuff, right?

Right. I mean, you may be waiting tables, bartending, like whatever it looks like to go and earn some extra money.

down, you know, down the road. So, that would be my two big goals for you. But, if you hold in the line, we'll get you Ken's book and then we'll also get you every dollar. This is our budgeting app, but it also will look at your entire financial picture and help walk you through um how to do how to basically do the baby steps. So, you can enter in your information in that app and it really walks you through. But, but when you're looking at your debt to attack it, the debt snowball is what we

recommend. And so, taking those credit cards because how many credit cards is that? 14,000.

>> Um so, it's between two credit cards.

one credit card is basically um I I

applied for it when I was younger and they gave me a 14,000 credit limit and I

was like I don't need that much but I ended up >> living off of it cuz I was making like

>> $10 to 12 an hour at one job and uh I

had to have some sort of extra income because at the time I was paying for an apartment that was $1,400. So I just kept putting rent on that card and eventually it I just maxed it out. It wrecked it. >> And the other card. Yeah. And then the other card was like $500. Um and yeah,

that's kind of where that's at.

>> Okay. So, I would have a goal uh to get $1,000. Do you have anything saved at all? Any cash?

>> Uh not really. [laughter] >> Okay. Yeah. So, yes, your first goal would be to be get $1,000. We're at the end of February right now. Make it a goal by March 15th to get $1,000.

Whatever that looks like. You got to sell stuff. You got to work extra. [music] And then from there, you're going to start saying, "Okay, this $500 credit card, we're going to pay that off." And have an aggressive goal [music] at the end of March, midappril, that credit card's gone.

And then you're going to start attacking [music] that 14 the or the other credit card with the rent. And then start attacking the student loans. So you do it by smallest to largest. But yeah, hang on.

Christian will pick up and we'll get you all that stuff, Lucas.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

Alysa is joining us now in Atlanta.

Alyssa, how can we help?

>> Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. My question to you is should I take

should I move out of my house which is

owned by my mom and her partner. They

are not married. They have two mortgages which is the apartment I live in which I pay in full for every month is $2,600.

They have a home that they live in.

Their mortgage is $4,300.

They moved out um of my apartment 8

months ago to move into their home and now she wants to leave him and we're trying to figure out what the best what

the best move is. >> She wants to leave him. Is that what you said? >> She wants to leave him and she wants to

either move into my apartment or really

she wants me to move into her house um

the one that they're paying for together. have him move into the apartment so no one gets, you know, quote unquote burned. Um, but you know,

that's going to be a big change in my life and I'm >> Yeah. So, let's pause right there. Let's just pause, okay? And I appreciate, we're honored that you called for our opinion and believe me, we have opinions and we'll give them to you. But before we get there, let's just let's just go where you are.

>> Where are you at? What was your knee-jerk reaction? What is your feeling right now? What decision do you think is right for you? Tell us.

>> So, my ideal situation would be to I

told them when they moved, I'm like, if I'm going to be paying everything, I'm paying the property tax basically my own landlord. Um, why not just give me the

gift of the home of the apartment, which they didn't do. Um, my immediate

reaction would be have my mom move in,

though. it would be, you know, a big change because I I run a business out of my house, so it's going to be a little bit tighter. Um, but my mom is very like

pushing me to move into the house because she feels like we won't be able to get into another house.

>> Pause real quick. I'm sorry. This is because I'm not really clear and I don't want to confuse you or the audience. So, yes, >> you're saying apartment and house.

You're currently living in a place and you said your first reaction was for mom to move in with you where you are now.

Correct?

>> Yes. Because they just took they just

moved out of the apartment which they own that I'm living in um to move into

their house. So they took on a $400,000.

That's not your problem. That's not your problem though. >> That's I don't even care about that. And the musical houses is confusing. So you you think the best move is for your mom to move in with you, but it comes with some headaches. That's what I heard.

>> Correct. >> All right. So if you think that's best, we start there. And I can tell you Rachel and I just said her house is not

your problem. And mom is trying to manipulate you. My viewpoint to move in to help her with a mortgage that she can't handle. >> There's no boundaries. Alissa, she's leaning on you almost like a second. She wants to break out, her boyfriend, him moving to your place. This is wacky.

>> Yeah. Alyssa, is any is your name on any of these properties from like a legal perspective of owning? >> My name is not on any property.

>> Okay. A and then they're going to break up. So Alyssa, I [clears throat] mean this sounds extreme. I almost which would probably piss your mom off, but I almost would just move out, get out of the middle of this triangle and just go rent an apartment. be a complete bystander in this and then be able to help and coach your mom of hey mom.

>> Yeah, these properties because I bet both of their names are on right on on the apartment and the home which is going to be a mess for your mom because they're going to have to possibly refinance to get one name off the loan.

I mean, it's just going to be it's a it's going to be a disaster. And so, if I were you, I see disaster playing out with unhealthy mom with no boundaries.

And this would be a this would be a harsh move, but it would to say like, "Hey, I I have to I have to step away

and and then from your point of strength, be able then to come in and help where you can and where it's appropriate, but not out of this desperation of your mom because she can't get her act together." >> Are you >> That sounds mean, but [laughter] >> May I add one more thing for >> Absolutely. I don't think gi they've been together for over a decade. So with

that said, I don't think that one of them are going to go through the headache of taking each other's name off. Like they trust each other enough, although they shouldn't. They trust each other enough and they know that they're both stable enough to keep everybody's

name. >> What does How does that change? Okay, great. How does that change what we're telling you that you should do?

>> No, that doesn't that doesn't change. I just um just what >> my goal this year I mentioned $30,000.

>> Yeah. >> So, I'm not paying that much. I pay about $2,600 a month in total with everything. And um I my goal this year

is I'm like in the baby steps and I my goal this year is to pay off my $30,000 in debt, which is more than possible.

>> Yeah. >> So, I just don't know. I mean, it's just

going to be more difficult. But I guess that's I >> Why is it going to be what's going to make it more difficult >> if you move?

>> If I move. >> Why? >> Yes. >> Give me some evidence. You may be right.

>> In my area, it's probably going to be more expensive. I am going to need a twobedroom at least in order to continue running my side business. >> What is your side business?

>> I am a waxer.

>> A waxer. Oh >> yes. >> Sorry, got that one a little late. Okay, great. [laughter] But I mean, why? But appreciate the service. >> Well, that's great. But I mean, all you need I mean, okay, two-bedroom, that's fine, but you could get a roommate, >> split a threebedroom, you know what I mean? You could I I would challenge you to find some uh some small studio. I

would just look into it. Do you know what I mean? Like >> cuz and the reason to do all of this is not really a financial move. It's more of a of a boundary play because >> yeah, you got to get out of this mess >> that there's just a relational entanglement >> or or you either have to just have a have a strong boundary with your mom at some point in your life, right?

>> and and and that's just not a that's not a blossoming relationship, you know what I mean? From a from a daughter to a mother. So, I'm just >> Yes. Yeah, >> I would add >> I've just gotten used to living by myself, so I don't really want to live with her.

>> Yes. And you don't have to. And >> by the way, that's going to create a problem. And and and and mom's going to try to manipulate you.

I have a good feeling that if you tell mom or you do what we're suggesting that mom's going to throw the darts at you.

wrong?

>> That's right. >> Okay. So, are you prepared? You don't have to be on this call, but I mean, how prepared do you think you are to be able to stand up to that?

>> I think I'm prepared.

>> Okay. I hear the emotion. >> Your guys's judgment? >> Yeah. Hey, what emotion? What What What do What are you feeling? Fear, sadness?

What's going on?

>> Um sadness to leave her on her own. But

>> I mean, my I've told her a million times, you know, um my goal is to pay

off my debt this year, and I've been doing a great job at that. And this is just kind of going to it's kind of

something in the middle of that. I'm going to take on a lot more expenses, a lot more stress. I'm going to be farther from work, the job that actually pays me good, and that I'm on track to make a hundred,000 a year for. Wow.

>> So, it's just it's a lot.

>> I know. Well, first of all, um you're a

good daughter.

And there might be some thoughts that enter your head that I'm not a good daughter. Maybe your mom, I'm not saying that she will, but she might throw some statements at you that make you feel that way. And I I want [clears throat] you to before you leave us to know that you're a good daughter and you are making really good decisions for you and your future. And you can't, Rachel, how many times have we taken calls with children and adult parents where you really aren't going to be able to fix >> mom's stuff.

>> Well, and and this what Deloney says all the time is, you know, when you put the boundary up, if the other person on the other end throws a fit and decides to, you know, from an extreme standpoint in the relationship or stopped, that's that was their call.

You're not wanting to >> break a level of relationship with your mom. You're just trying to set up your own life. Alyssa, how old are you?

I'm 23. >> Oh, you okay? You are young. Bless you.

You are young. >> Yeah. This is a great move. Oh, >> listen. >> This is going to be a pattern that you set for the for the rest of your life.

You know, >> I know you're sad right now, but I would rather you experience the sadness of this necessary ending than deal with

madness.

>> And this is setting up for that. And I don't mean just the angry feeling. I mean like some insanity of this revolving relationship between your mom and this guy and it's so co-mingled that I think the further you get away from this and set up financial and emotional

boundaries, woo, I think you're going to be great. I'm going to recommend a book by our dear friend Dr. Henry Clouds called Boundaries. Read it [music] and then follow that up with Necessary Endings. That's your one-two punch.

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>> [music]

>> right, [music] let's go to Tiffany next in Phoenix, Arizona. Tiffany, how can we help you today?

>> Hi. Hi, my name is Tiffany. I own two

properties that are um like none of them

are income producing. One I had perpetual problems with that cost me at least $1,000 in repairs and the other one has been vacant for over 6 months

and I just lost my job and I can't keep up with the payments and I don't know what to do. >> Okay, tell us about the properties.

Property one, let's call that one broken. The broken property, what what

is it? What kind of property is it and what do you think it's worth and what do you owe on it? Give us some numbers.

>> It's a duplex. Uh it it's it's worth probably around 320.

>> Mhm. >> And I owe about 260 on it.

>> Okay. And then let's call the second property the vacant property. Give me the numbers on that one.

>> Um it's a triplex and

I owe like 406 and

uh they say it's worth 500, but I don't think it's worth that much.

>> Who's they? A real estate agent told me that it was worth 300,000, but I don't think that's true either. >> Um, >> well, you just told us 400,000, then you changed it. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wrote 500,000.

You You said >> uh that they said it's worth 500 and you

owe 406. Did I get that right?

>> That's correct. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, why did you throw 300 out? Where?

There's a big gap there. the the real estate agent that I spoke to said I need to he told me because it wasn't selling to drop it down to 300,000, but it's not worth that. It's worth more than that.

>> Okay. Well, then you need to interview several real estate agents.

>> Go ahead. >> That that's the that's the third real estate agent that I have um tried to get to sell the property. Have you tried any of the Ramsey Well, they're not Ramsey real estate agents that are connected to us and our in our uh >> Ramsey Trusted program. >> Ramsey, thank you. Ramsey Trusted program. Have you tried any of those?

>> No. >> Okay. Go to our website um in the Ramsey

Trusted and talk to some real estate agents. You don't you don't have to take those three opinions. And at this point, you've got some urgency. So, let's find somebody that really knows the market and that is really aggressive. The challenge that you've got is the duplex and the triplex. I mean, that's those are not, you know, your most favorable properties. And I'm guessing that you're probably in an area where real estate is slowed down. Is that true or false?

>> Well, the real estate agents I talked to say that it's good until they put on the market. So, [laughter] I presume >> I know. But see, here's the other thing. You've got to go get your own data, right? This is not hard to find. You got to get your own research in this thing.

And and by the way, this is readily available. Like you know your zip code, you can you can go pull this information from realtor.com, other reputable sources and let's just get a a knowledgeable some comps on these triplex and duplex. Uh but you definitely need to get rid of these.

>> Uh but what my hope is you don't >> Go ahead.

>> The comp I I have done that. The comps that I had for the vacant home was three uh was 480 and

then for the vac uh for the broken home

the comp was was at 320 that I mean I

checked on prop stream. I've done I've done the research. >> Great. Okay. Great. Great job. >> And how long have they been on the market for?

>> Well, they so the the vacant home I

pulled it from the market. It was on the market for about about a month or about two months. >> Okay. Um >> um but I pulled it just to see if I can get a renter because I can't keep up with these payments. And then the duplex. >> Okay. Let's look at your income really quick. >> Out on the market. >> Okay. So, let's >> I lost my job. >> I know. So, what was your income prior to losing your job?

>> Uh about 90,000.

>> What were you doing?

>> Uh work in marketing.

>> Okay. So, what happened? Laid off.

fired. What happened? >> No, I got I got fired for burnout and stressed out. >> And what was causing you stress?

>> My mortgages, >> right? Okay. Uh I think this is a both.

>> I've had I've had I've had evictions. I had three evictions last year. I still have one >> as being a landlord. You >> like you having to do it as a landlord?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

>> That's me. I've had to do turnovers. So, how much is the how much is each payment per month?

>> Uh, my duplex is 2,600 and the triplex

is 3,400.

>> M. Okay. So, yeah, that's six grand just

in those payments. How far behind are you? >> I'm not behind. >> You're not behind. Okay, that's good.

So, Tiffany, right now average days on market, and this is across the US, not in the Phoenix area specifically, is about 78 days. Okay. And we're about to go into a season of of real estate,

right? Everything kind of starts opening up after the winter and your your May,

your April. Um, all of these months

really start generating people that are looking to buy. Now, this looks like I

mean, I'm assuming you wouldn't be able to sell like the duplex and the triplex

as separate units. It has to be all probably within one unit. So, are you looking for like an investor? Would an investor be the type of buyer? Because it wouldn't be a single family like it's not a single family home, right?

>> No. Yeah, that's correct. It's not.

>> Okay. So, that that is going to make it more difficult because it's more of a niche um you know buyer that you're

looking for. But average day, so I would give yourself 90 days um to 120. like it

may have to go through the summer, but the problem is is if you start getting behind then yeah, I mean short a short sale may have to come into play if you can't get these off. >> Well, that's why we need to look at the money right now. So, the income. So, are you on a severance right now? How long have you have you been out of work?

>> Um, I just found out this week I have a month severance. >> You have a month severance. Okay. And if let me let me go back a and this is somewhat of an unfair question, but I think it's important. If if we had 30

days ago sold those tri those two let's call these properties. Okay. If we had sold those properties, do you think you would have gotten fired?

>> Probably. >> You do think you still would >> been going on for the This has been going on for about two years. >> Okay. And so the stress and I want you to be really honest because again we're protecting you here but we we need to be gut level honest. Is that the single source of you just simply you couldn't get the job done? You were almost a zombie because you were so stressed out. Is that what I'm understanding?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, I want to go back then. Had we not had the stress of these properties, do you think you would have been in a state that would have led to you getting fired? Yes or no?

>> Right. Repeat that again. >> Okay. If these properties didn't exist in your portfolio and you didn't have any of the stress, do you think you would have gotten fired? Let's go all the way back for two years this has been going on. would you have gotten fired?

>> No. >> Okay. My point is you aren't broken,

>> but you are burdened. And and that's what's going on. So, we got to remove these two burdens. And I'm going to tell you what I do. We have short time here, but I'm going tell you two things I think you got to do. Number one, I think you need to go get a really aggressive real estate agent and keep finding. But I would not rely on them.

>> I would Is there anybody that uh are there other d uh duplexes and triplexes around these properties? They're not single standouts, right?

>> No, that's correct. There are there are other ones in the >> I would be knocking on doors and finding who owns them and say, "I'm willing to make a deal." >> Yes. >> And the deal is up to the point that you don't have to pay anything, but you can get out of these things. I don't even care if you profit $1, but as long as you don't owe anything on these things anymore, and we remove these from your life.

It's like taking a giant millstone that's been hanging around your neck and you've been out there treading water and that is going to lift from you immediately. That would be step one. So, I would take it on myself to go cut a deal. Hey, I got these properties.

I screwed up. I'm stressed out. This is the bottom dollar that I'll take, but I'll take it today and I would go try to do the deal on your own while trying to get an agent. Now, we've got to move to income.

You are going to get free of these things.

on the horse. You've got to maybe go back to your current employer and say, "I'm going to fix this. I I I would take that stab. Give me one more shot." Maybe you don't have it, and I understand that may be unrealistic, but I'd put everything on the table. And you've got to get out there. If you're working from home, whatever it is, but 90,000 is not

going to be replaced by some odd jobs.

you're going to have to go back and get into marketing and get in as quick as you can or you're looking at four to five jobs.

That's your reality right now because you got one month before your world gets really, really bad. So, I hate that you're in this, but here's the good news. I believe in you. You can get out of this, but this is going to HAVE TO BE LIKE like everything you got to not get broken by this.

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

[clears throat] And they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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call 8003564282.

[music]

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can do it for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Eric is up in Dayton, Ohio. Eric, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how are you guys today? >> Great. How are you, sir?

>> Good, good. Hey, I uh looking for some advice on how to uh convince my wife um

that it's a smart idea to uh sell one

vehicle that we have paid off um that's worth about $32,000 um to pay off the other that we have um

and and not have any car payment.

>> And your wife is not on board with this?

>> She's not. So trying to sell her car?

>> Uh it is her car. My car is paid for.

It's a truck. 2020 Chevy Silverado.

>> Yeah. >> It's a hard That's a hard [laughter] uphill battle. >> It is. >> It's It's paid for.

>> Your Yours is a truck. And what does she drive? >> Yes. She drives a Durango.

>> And you want to sell her?

>> I thought you said you wanted to sell your truck.

>> Yes. I want to sell my truck and pay off her Durango. Let me keep her Durango.

>> And that's why I'm confused as to why she's not for this. Oh, I thought you were trying to sell her car. >> Well, well, she she she thinks basically

the difference of what my truck is worth compared to us paying her car off is about $8,800 to $10,000. So, she's

afraid my what I would like to do is take that $10,000 and go buy um pay cash

for a used car. Um, she is just afraid

of what comes with the maintenance and upkeep of buying a used vehicle. >> Got it. Okay, now I'm up to date. Okay, so this is all about vision casting, Eric, right? You got to cast vision. And you got to do it in a way where she goes, "Aha, because she's got some fear." Okay. And who among us, Eric, are

really clear thinking when we're afraid?

>> Yes. You would agree?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, nothing wrong with your wife.

She's got some fear and it's clouding her ability to see your plan. So, you have to come at it that way. All right.

So, this is the way I would come about it. What is the payment on her Durango every month?

>> Well, well, we're paying just shy of double payments on her Durango now. So, she her her her insight is, well, why

why do we need to make this drastic decision if we can just pay it off? How are >> you going to pay for it? And maybe she's right. But you got to answer my question. I'm going to walk you through. Maybe she's right. So, what are you guys paying? I know it's a double payment. What are you guys paying every month on the Durango?

>> It's 550. >> Okay. 550 bucks a month. >> What the payment is? >> All right. And if we continue to do the 550 double payment, when would the Durango be paid off?

>> In about two two just over two years.

>> Oh, >> okay. That's that's an that's more information. The way I would come about it is what what are you thinking?

Because you you made a funny scrunchy face and I [laughter] really want to go to you. I want to go to you immediately.

No, no, not it's not off the top of my head. It's just that is that's so long too long to be. Yes. Keeping >> all right. I just wanted to make sure. >> Cash the vision. >> So, here's what I would do. I would say, "Babe, we're paying 550 bucks a month." And at that rate, it's going to take us two years to pay this off. Okay. All right. So, you do the math on that and just play it out. Show her the numbers.

So, that's 24 months at 550 a month.

Multiply that >> a thousand because he said double payments still haven't paid off in two years. No, the >> Yes. >> I thought the double Okay, hold on. The double payment I thought was 550.

>> No, no, no. That's That's the single payment. >> No, that's the single payment.

>> Well, I asked for I think you asked for it. >> He didn't give it to me. I said, [laughter] "What's the double payment?" You said 550. >> Eric, I'm following you, Eric. >> But he didn't give me the numbers. So, it's a,000, actually. >> Yeah, they're putting away about $1,100.

>> They're actually paying $975 a month. >> But in all fairness, I did ask for that number. I said, "What are you paying?" It's okay, Eric. I was kid asked, "How

much is the payment?" And you gave the payment. >> You said double and I said, "What's the double payment?" Here's the deal. All right. So, now >> a thousand bucks. >> A,000 bucks >> for two years. >> For two years. You got to show her those numbers versus your plan.

>> I did. >> Well, I >> I actually made a spreadsheet. Look at you last night. >> But I made a spreadsheet.

>> My anticipation was to have we would pay this car off right now. >> So, let's just get to her fear. Her fear is, >> but I'm going to address it. Here's the deal. I'm trying so hard to get here.

You got to show her that the thousand bucks a month that we're paying is easily going to cover any kind of mechanical issues that she's worried about. Oh, I know. KEN'S NOT A VILLAGE IDIOT after all. I got you.

>> I feel like I'm talking about teenagers between you two. Oh, Ken. I mean, no.

The vision casting is you're afraid that

we're going to have mechanical problems.

So then you tell her, "I'm going to buy for 10,000 a Toyota or a Honda or something or x amount of miles and I can do research and show her that the average mechanical cost on a car like this is whatever." >> Yes. >> And between our emergency fund and the savings of a almost a,000 bucks a month,

we would be able to cover the mechanical. And now we're out of debt.

Eric, that's what you have to do. >> Have you Have you shown her any used cars for $10,000?

I I haven't really I've seen a couple that are locally like what was that $8,800 that's like a a toy or Camry and

>> so I think that's I think that's always a shocking thing for people hear used car and if if I'm her and she's just like that just means it's a beater it's going to be crappy we're going to have to deal with maintenance all the time you know what I mean like that's kind of the stereotype but when you actually go and look at used cars they're fine

really I mean there's some there's some that are rough that you're like, "Okay, that's probably not going to be great." But you go get a mechanic to look at it.

You make sure there's no big issues going on. And I'm telling you, yes. And I and I think for her, that's where the Ken's vision casting can come in is her actually go car shopping and see what you what you're talking about. Oh, look at this. Ken's pulling it up now. >> That's what I do. That's what I do, folks. >> Look at you, Ken. Look, a GMC Acadia.

>> We got a a 2016 GMC Acadia for 8,900.

Only 120,000 miles. GMC's aren't expensive to fix. They got all the parts. Uh let me give you a there's a >> Oh my gosh. How about a a 2015 Subaru?

These things run forever. Uh and let's do one more just for fun. Oh, here we go. Uh let's go the 2016 Honda Civic.

182,000 mi. Yes. But that car is barely getting started. It looks great. The paint's nice. They're asking $8,900 for it. You walk in there with $7,500 in

$100 bills and you walk out of that.

That's just a quick quick search. So

again, >> I know it took us a while to get there.

>> It was painful, but we got to show her no more spreadsheets. Just here's the deal. We just free up $1,000 a month in our budget. We can easily cover and this is for a short term >> and we save up Rachel.

>> Yes. >> For the next $20,000 cash car. Mhm.

[clears throat] >> Well, I even I even I even tried to show her that taking this uh what what a payment of 5.57 plus what we're paying

and putting it to the house after this this car is paid for. Uh we would pay we

would then pay our house off in within the next 5 years after that.

>> Oh my gosh. >> And she didn't go for that. >> So is really her fear go for that.

>> Is her real fear just a used car? Is that what she is scared of for real? just that just the just keeping up the maintenance. She doesn't think we're She asked me. She said, "Do we do you really think we're in that bad a shape?" We're not at all in that bad of shape.

>> No, but it's just the level of intensity you want out.

>> Yeah. Let me ask you a question. That's what I That's how I would go about it though, Eric, of what it's doing to you.

It's stressing you out. You hate this.

>> And so to her, she may not feel the pain as much. She's like, "Is it really that big of a deal? Oh my gosh, Eric, you're being so dramatic." All of this. You need to Yeah. You need to verbalize exactly what you're feeling and what you're thinking and and and and it's almost this like, hey, this would be a gift to me and my sanity and my peace like, you know what I mean? It's more of that for you because she's not rattled by this, which is fair. She can pay.

>> She does she does none of our finances.

>> So then that's part of the [laughter] problem. >> Crazy question. Actually, Eric, this is for you and Rachel. >> Okay. Eric, apparently it's you and I against >> Well, it sounded like it earlier until America realized where I was going. All right. F serious question in this case.

Is it okay for your marriage to just do

it? I don't think you're going and buying anything. You're selling your car. I think you go, "We're at an impass, but babe, I'm going to do it anyway. What say you?" >> Does that bother you? >> That's a That's a Yeah, that's [music] a terrible idea, and I would not do that.

She would She would kill me. >> She'd freak out. Okay. She then don't do it. Okay. So, hey, listen. She's got to come to the table. You guys need to be doing a budget together every month. Like, y'all are you're running on two separate tracks and and you're by yourself in this. You're isolated [music] and stressed. And that's the core issue here for you. And that's what she needs to hear is that her husband is not [music] at peace. >> Take her to see a $10,000 car. Take her

to see it. Test drive it. Take her along. [music] I think that's your shot.

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Welcome back [music] to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Ken Coleman alongside Rachel Cruz.

Excited to be with you all. 88 8255

5225 is the number. Nate is up in Colorado. Nate, how can we help?

Hey guys, I'm just calling cuz I not

really sure how to move forward. Um had

a very serious health situation and

depleted all of our savings. Um and uh

I'm not sure how to move. I've got four kids and a wife. I'm not sure how to move forward. >> Oh my gosh. What happened? getting out of debt and everything. Um,

long story short, I was in the army for a long time, >> okay? >> And, um, doctors were trying to help me recover from long long-term injuries and, um,

too many doctors got involved and I ended up on 19 different medications for multiple years. >> Oh my gosh. >> And it was just killing my liver. Um, >> I had the heart attacks and it was really bad. And um

technically I'm not even supposed to be here. We were literally planning my funeral. Um >> Oh my gosh. >> And now I'm here and I don't know what to do. >> Yeah. >> Well, what when when we say here? Um

what where does that put you physically?

Are you able to work? Are you on disability? How you know we got to walk through kind of your realities. Let's start with those two questions.

So, I worked through the, you know, I was supposed to be in the hospital, but I I worked through it all.

>> Wow. >> Through God's help, I was able to maintain myself enough to work. Um, >> do you still have that? Do you still have that income?

>> Yes, sir. I still work. I make um just over $100,000 a year.

>> Okay, great. And you and you foresee,

God willing, health allowing, continuing

to make that money, correct?

>> Yes, sir. The the damage is permanent.

There's no fixing it. Um >> Okay. >> You know, you can prevent further damage, but um what what's done is done basically. >> Do you have any [clears throat] other income that's coming in from your military service or anything like that?

>> That's part of the income. Yes, that's part of the total income I gave you.

>> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Is there and one last question here and we'll start walking through the debt.

>> Uh do you have opportunities where you are or potentially in the same industry to get a raise to where that number goes above 100,000?

>> Um I I believe so. I mean I I mean technically yes. You know that depends a lot on the company you work for. Um, >> I understand.

But the reason I'm asking that needs to be a part of this strategy >> in in other words, you don't have to answer that question on the call, >> but your homework assignment is, "What can I do to increase my income?" >> That I'm going to school currently full-time and working full-time >> for what? >> Um, to try to finish my degree so that I can get out of trucking and and do accounting. >> Okay. Okay.

Okay. So, you want to move into accounting.

>> I will graduate next uh next May. Not

this May, but next year. It's 2027 May.

>> All right. How much is that costing you?

Or is it covered? >> It's free from the VA. I get I in fact I actually get paid to go to school. >> Perfect. Okay. Great. All right. I want to bring Rachel in here and let's talk about the real debt.

>> Yeah. So, how much debt do you guys have?

>> So, um my wife is two months away from

being debtree. Um, we have two credit cards left that total. One credit card is $9,487.

>> Okay. >> And the other credit card is uh $4,619.

>> Okay. >> Um, and actually tomorrow morning that credit card will the the smaller one will be paid off. >> The 4,000 >> and then uh Yes, ma'am.

>> Oh my gosh. Amazing.

And then April 1st, um I'm sorry,

between April 1st and May 1st, we will finish off the 9,000. >> Okay. Amazing. Now, why did you say my wife is almost debtree? What do What do you mean by that?

>> Well, when I got sick, I was actually running my own trucking company.

>> Okay.

>> I'm I'm sorry. >> No, you're fine.

>> I was doing really well.

>> Yeah.

And um

um to keep our family afloat, I I just kind of went into uh survival mode and I

just said, "Okay, well, if I die, I don't want my wife's credit to get destroyed." So, I just focused on making sure the rent was paid and and her bills

got paid, but my credit obviously I I couldn't I couldn't make anything. We I mean, we were >> Okay. Yep. >> barely living. Um, >> okay. I hear you. >> And so I I was able to salvage hers, but my credit is just destroyed.

>> Okay, that's okay. Yeah, we're not I'm not worried about that right now. So, is the are the two credit cards are those under her name or yours?

>> Yes, ma'am. They're under her name.

>> They're hers. Okay. So, is that all the debt that's in her name?

>> Yes, ma'am. That's correct. >> Okay. Wonderful. And then what debt do you have?

>> Um, I It's not an overwhelming amount.

It's just a lot of small credit cards that have been in default for like [clears throat] two years. >> Oh, that's great. Are they in collections?

>> Yes. Yes. Yes, ma'am. I'm sure they are.

I just Nobody's contacted me about it. I just thought it was weird. >> Okay. So, what I'm not like getting phone calls. It's just >> Yep. Okay. [clears throat] So, in a way, it's kind of a good thing because when they hit collections, you can negotiate and, you know, get out of them. So, so total, you said it's a bunch of little ones. So, probably a total of what? Five grand, 10 grand or what are we talking?

It's It's just under 14,000. Right now, it sits at 13,913.

>> Okay. And they're all defaulted and probably all in collections. All 14,000.

Yes, ma'am. Every single one of them. >> Okay. So, so here's what I would do. I would pull your credit report and see the last company that held that debt and try to contact them and try to get any um real time of of what who owns these

debts because they're probably sold off.

So, it'll it's kind of like a it's going to be a part-time job for you to kind of like go through the spiderweb of it all, >> but where you can get that. And then in the meantime, after you guys pay off her there, I'm going to say I'm going to say your both of you cuz we'll we'll talk in the [laughter] in those terms. [gasps] Once once the $9,000 credit card is paid off in April, then I would save because you guys are amazing at what you're doing. and the fact you guys are snowballing this so fast.

I would save, you know, 56,000 as quickly as possible and then contact the collections and see what you can negotiate cuz I bet they'll take half or even less than half of that 15,000. Okay. So, I want you guys to do that.

>> No, ma'am. >> No. Okay. Um, yeah. Nate, can I just

tell you >> overwhelming? It was just terrifying trying to think. >> Oh, I can't imagine trying to stay alive. And and by the way, you're a hero. >> I'm having a hard time. Yeah, I'm I'm having a hard time finding life insurance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you Yeah, you might.

>> I've got $100,000 policy. We just had a

>> baby girl that was not planned.

>> Yeah. >> It's just uh I'm just uh

>> You're a good man. Hey, you're a good man. >> Really hard to take [clears throat] care of my family. >> You're doing Listen, you're doing a great job. >> You're doing so well. the fact that you guys are going to pay this debt off in the next two months.

>> Uh and Rachel just gave you a step-by-step plan. Don't stress about that collection stuff. That is secondary. You're going to be okay. Uh

you just keep showing up for your family the way you have. You're a good man who's been through so much. By the way, you served our country >> and and and you sacrificed so much.

You're a great American, too. And we appreciate you. you're going to be fine.

You're doing a great job, you guys. The next step is get that emergency fund in place, right? And then begin the investing and I believe it's all going to work out. You just one day at a time.

>> Hold on the the line, Nate. We're going to [music] pick up during the break cuz I do want to mention something about when you mentioned life insurance. I do want to talk to you about that. We can talk off air, but but hang on. But yeah, doing incredible, Nate.

>> [music]

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Brian is up in Denver, Colorado. Brian, how can we help?

>> Hey, nice to be with you both. [music] >> Thank you. What's going on?

>> So, my grandfather passed away.

>> Oh, I'm so sorry about that.

>> Yeah. Hey, 96 years old, he crashed.

>> Oh, that's a that's a great life.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He he did a lot in his life and uh I inherited some stuff from him that I wanted to talk to you about. >> Okay. >> Um including a giant Alaskan salmon that he caught in 1986 that somehow got left in the will for me. So I'm trying to figure out what to do with that. Why I'm calling you guys >> like on the wall or like is it still in the freezer from >> So, so he it came with a plaque and and

he named the salmon big hog and now I

have my grandfather's big hog and I don't know what it right now.

>> I'm so excited. Let's go ahead and get this one out of the way. This is the least important of the question, but we'll see you. What do you do with it?

You hang it in a place of honor.

>> This is your grandfather's prize fish.

He went so far as to name it. Uh I would think patio covered patio would be a great spot. Uh if you've got a man kind of a man's room in the house, great spot. I mean, it's a story to tell and it honors your grandfather every time you tell the story.

And I would come up with a good story. If you don't have a >> embellish [laughter] listen, I I whipped out the tape measure and found a perfectly suitable place in the living room, but my wife >> for reasons I'll never understand the idea. >> Well, you haven't been married long enough. I have.

I get it. Notice I didn't mention the living room. That wasn't [laughter] on my I know better than that. But, uh, whatever your manland is in your house, that's where it goes.

Great story. And and as Rachel said, create a good fish story.

Like he almost lost his arm or something like like let's get some drama in it and then he was okay and he got the fish reeled it in. Took him an hour and a half. I don't know. Something special.

>> Sounds great story. But anyway, >> this is the type this is the type of advice people need to call into their show for. >> I agree. We can do more than just money.

>> By the way, I got more where that came from. >> We changed the lives in so many ways.

>> All right. So now serious stuff.

>> How can we help you?

>> Yes. So, I found out through his passing

um and I'm I'll say this once, very grateful, very blessed um to be in the situation uh that through the course of three different kind of life events in the future, I'll be inheriting a total

essentially of 3.5 million from him.

>> Wow. >> Wow.

>> Yes. >> How many grandkids are there?

>> There's four of us. And it's interesting that you asked that question because one of them is through a $10 million um

generation skipping trust that some of his commercial real estate assets is in totaling about 10 million. So >> generation skipping your parents didn't get >> correct. My parents now get all of the

income for as long as they're alive from those properties. >> Okay. but they're passed along to us ownership-wise in the trust once um his

children have passed along. So that's way down the line. >> Wow. Okay. Oh my gosh.

>> The other element is that he's leaving me $100,000 now. I will receive at some

point within two years of his passing, which will be two Mays from now.

>> Okay. >> So I don't know when that would be coming. It could come today. It could come in a year and four months.

>> Mhm. Um, and then the other element of it is that when my grandmother passes his wife, I'll be receiving a $1 million municipal bond that pays out a lousy 2%.

[laughter] But I'll be getting that when my grandmother dies that um they worked

out through their estate that she gets once he passed and then I'll get that once she passed. She's 90 and I hope she lives 30 more years. Um, but that's the that's the third element of it. So, the reason I'm calling you is I didn't anticipate any of this. And since 2020,

I've been building up my own brokerage account with stocks and ETFs. And that account now has 155,000 in it. And my

plan was to never touch it ever. Just just keep it growing. Um, however,

now that I kind of have these other things coming in the future, my question for you is, is it okay or is it still

stupid to be able to pull out money from that brokerage account to pay for

some some some home improvement projects

that straddle the line between want and need. Um, if we have a second kid down the line in a couple years, we could really use another bedroom. And so for me, and we're doing home construction work here coming up soon, so it would be ideal to get it all done in one flu

>> while it's happening as opposed to having to move out a couple times.

>> Um, so is it is it okay for me to pull

4050 out of that now, pay another 10K in capital gains taxes next year? Um, given

I know what's coming to me or is that still >> Yeah. No, I think that's fine. I would say you could do you could pull 40 or 50 out of 150 in a brokerage account anyways regardless of the inheritance. I mean that's that's cash for you all to use now or later or like you said never

touch it. I mean yeah you you get to make that decision. The whole idea of just never touching that account was something that you that that was a role you put on that money. Um no one you know forced that. So, I would say I would I would be a little bit more flexible with it. And and I'm assuming you guys don't have any debt and have an emergency fund in place and everything.

Correct. >> Yeah. About $40,000 emergency fund. The only debt is our mortgage. 4,000 a month. $500,000 left on the line.

>> What kind of retirement savings do you have at this point? I know you're a young man, but I'm just curious what your 15% is looking like and babysit 4.

>> Uh, yeah. It's it's it's

I don't know, normal. I'm I'm 36 years

old. I worked professionally for the first half of my professional life, not making much money, so there wasn't much there. >> Sure. >> Um but over the past 5 years, I've had a a pretty good job and have been Okay.

>> contributing 4% to it for the last 5 years. >> Okay, >> that's great. Yeah. So, I would um Are you just doing 4%? Is that the match?

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would I would be investing 15%. Um so, I would be upping your retirement. I would totally use some of this money. um in this account and then that will be replenished with the hundred grand cash that's coming to you in the next year. Now the the rest

the bond I understand that um but the

the other big chunk the 2.5 that's in that is in real estate. Correct. That's not >> Yeah. So that's that's the current valuation of what is commercial real estate properties in Los Angeles.

>> Perfect. Okay. Wonderful. Um so yep that's um that's exactly what I would do. Brian, I know that's um what a what a beautiful legacy >> that your grandfather just >> love that guy >> built up, passed down generationally and

still has grandkids intact, right? Like Brian, like you know, you've stayed out of debt and built up your own emergency fund, your own brokerage, like you're you're doing it. And then that's the beautiful thing is that when money magnifies and when money magnifies great

habits and stewarding money, well, like that's a that's a wonderful thing. This money is not going to ruin you. it's actually going to continue. You're going to pass that down generationally through your kids and so on. So, um, wow, that's

amazing. Absolutely amazing. So, yeah.

Um, I would use part of the 150 to cash flow some home renovations. And it's okay if it's a want. That's totally fine. You guys have the cash for it. You're in a position to do it. And then when that $1 million bond comes, when your grandmother does pass, yes, I would probably um, yeah, cash that out and

invest that. And that $1 million sitting in a brokerage account long term is gonna be a beautiful thing, too. That's in the future, which is awesome. >> That's huge.

And that's gonna fast forward your retirement savings. And obviously, if you continue to be as smart as you've been. >> Yeah. Don't slow down your stuff.

>> You guys are in great shape, but act like none of it's coming is the idea here. And uh >> and you got a big decision to make. We got to find out where we're going to put that salmon. I think America wants to know, by the way, how big of a fish is it?

>> Yeah. Well, the [laughter] the weight uh

Thank you. First of all, thank you for all that. I appreciate it. The weight of Big Hog is listed on the plaque. Uh I don't know much about salmon. I asked my friend who's a big salmon fisherman. He told me if it's 25 lbs, that's a huge salmon. The weight of this salmon says 73 lb. It's huge.

>> Oh. And what's the size? Do how what is it end to end? Do you have any idea?

>> Oh gosh, I haven't measured it. Um >> what would you guess? Big enough to struggle to get through the door frame.

I can tell you that. >> Oh, so so basically a yard stick at least a yard stick wide if you know what a yard stick is. Okay. >> Yes. >> Holy smokes.

>> Kids more excited about that fish when you walk in the house. >> Well, you know, listen, I've heard people talk about millions all the time.

When was the last time you heard anybody talk about a 70 lb plus salmon? That's pretty special. >> Yeah. Not like a tuna. [music] A salmon.

>> A salmon. >> And the And and they're not salt water, right? Salmon are fresh water. So that's in a river somewhere in Alaska.

[laughter] >> That could hit me. >> Where did he catch it? Tell us real quick. Where did he catch it?

>> Yep. Alaska. >> Oh, there it is. Unbelievable. You know, and what's funny is there was a giant bear that had been stalking that thing.

Big hog. Bear came looking [laughter] for him. He's no longer there. Where is he? Grandpa got him.

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>> Col Columbus Columbus.

Oh, I'm sorry. Couldn't hear myself in my ears, everybody. I'm not having a uh, you know, attack of some kind. The cord got pulled out. I was like, "Yeah, uh, hey, I can't hear myself." Uh, the wire shorting out. That's what's happening.

So, that's uh let me see if I can manually adjust that. Okay, there we go, folks. All right, it's live, folks. You got to keep pressing through. Joseph is up in Columbus, Georgia, and I can hear myself and hopefully I can hear you, Joseph. How's it going?

>> All is well here in Columbus. Just had a couple of questions for you. >> Okay, go for it. >> Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Yes. Uh I am married 67. My wife is 68

>> and we both are retired and we both

enjoy traveling her a lot more than me.

>> But [snorts and laughter] uh >> we got a question about getting a credit card for using those uh lounges, the sky

lounge and all those things. The Centurion Lounge. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I got a question about getting a credit card for those purposes.

>> You don't want to sit among the people. You you you want that private experience, huh?

Well, I uh at first my wife wanted it,

but then when I experienced it, I thought it was pretty good as well. And so, yeah, I don't I don't carry any

credit card debt. >> Uhhuh. >> But I wondered I know I did the Dave Ramsey program back in 2011 and uh she

did it a year before me and we both have

been debtree since that time. and uh

just wanted to get your opinion on whether you think that's a wise idea to try to get a credit card for that purpose. >> Yeah. So the way I would look at it is,

you know, choosing to do that. On one hand, you know, some people it's like it's just not a big deal. You pay it off every month. You get the the privilege of being in the airport lounges and whatever. And then on the other end of the spectrum, it is kind of saying, "Hey, I'm going to shift my philosophy around how I do money and I'm going to

choose now to spend on a card that I'm going to have to pay off every month." And what we have found data wise is that

you do end up spending more when you spend with a credit card. And so there is something to be said of, hey, I'm going to shift my financial philosophy for an hour once a month in a lounge. And so to me,

not worth it. They're nice. I've been in them before with friends and yeah, they're fine, but they're also just fine. You know, I could sit at a airport restaurant and get a glass of wine and a dinner and call it a day, you know. >> Well, you know, you are a woman of the people. Do you like to be out there among the folks?

>> No, but I Yeah. So, to me, Joseph, it's it it is shifting into an industry that I just have a lot of disgust for. I just

don't like the credit card industry. I don't like playing their game. I don't like the fact that a lot of miles and

cash back and everything, the way they make their money is off of people who can't pay their bills and end up, you know, having to pay interest and all of it. just a I just don't like the game and so I choose not to play it.

>> Uh honest question, Joseph and because it's it's been a while since I've uh done any of the lounges, right? I don't even But isn't that a function of how many miles air miles you have? You don't have to have the credit card to have access to those. Do you or do you?

>> Some of them you do. >> Some of them if it's named by the credit card. I've seen those. But if it's >> like a Delta lounge, >> that's what I'm saying. that you can accumulate if you're flying Delta and you're near uh obviously the the the world headquarters. So, I would you don't have to have a credit card to experience that. Certainly, if you're flying Delta, I would look into it, but that's just a function of you're you're you're stacking up miles and then you get privileges.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. >> Well, that sounds good. I appreciate your your insight on that. Thank you.

Thanks for calling. Have fun traveling.

>> Oh, I love that. Uh Sarah's up in Las Vegas. Sarah, how can we help?

Yeah, my question is um my husband has a potential job promotion opportunity within the next few months. Along with that is a requirement that we have a

5-year-old or newer four-door vehicle

that we have to supply, which we don't have right now. And the only way for us to get that would be to use our almost fully funded emergency fund. So the

question is, do we forgo the promotion

completely because we can't do that? We can't provide the vehicle >> or do we use our emergency fund and get the vehicle if we get the promotion?

>> How much more will the promotion be?

>> Well, it's base plus commission. So I I don't really know, >> but your boss is hopeful and optimistic that it could be up as much as double.

>> Explain to me um why the four-door vehicle that's required for this.

>> Oh, he because the job would be an outside salesperson and he would likely need to use the vehicle to transport

things to job sites or whatever. It's just a requirement for the company.

>> Okay, got it. >> And do you guys have a current car you could sell and put some cash towards it?

We do, but it's not it's it's already a

really old beat up car. It wouldn't be a significant contribution, but we could.

>> Yeah. Because um if it has to be a 5-year or newer, if you went on the 5year, how much money are we talking?

Are you seeing that you're like, "Okay, this is how how much we'd have to spend on this car." um the research that he's done so far, he's found things in the 13 to 15 range, >> but I it would be nice to go up as much as 20, but that's that's more than half of our >> fund.

I just want to look at this from every angle possible here. So, when when would he have to take this job or when would he start? In other words, actually, the better question is when would you have to have the car if he takes this?

that we I mean that's not a hard and

fast deadline. We don't really know. The

job could start as much as soon as two months from now. The vehicle requirement

could maybe be fudged through the end of the year, but we don't know.

>> Oh, okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, when can we know that answer?

>> I don't know. A >> lot of it I don't know. I appreciate the I don't know, but but I'll tell you what I would be doing if I was in your shoes.

I would be getting the answer to that question. >> They they've offered him the job >> that question, but I haven't received the answer myself. >> Well, who'd you ask it of?

>> My husband when he was telling me about this in the first place. >> What? Hubs needs to get these answers.

Here's why. It already sounds as though we have a gap here to where I love how

you used fudge, right? But if they're going to give you a little bit of leeway, you can't be the only people that have ever been in this situation before. >> It's where they don't give you any allowance. >> I guess let's just assume it's end of the year. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Could you guys I got to believe you guys could scrape together 13 to $15,000 between now and >> thousand bucks a month. >> Yes or no?

>> No. We Well, actually, [snorts] maybe.

>> What if you sold some stuff? If Rachel and I came over and we're around your house looking around, what could we yard sell? And could we could we sell enough stuff to make $25? >> Even if the car is $3,000, you know, that's 3,000 out of the 13. You know, the other car, right? >> It's my point. What here's here's the exercise, okay? What you and your husband need to sit down tonight and go, what do we need to do to come up with 13 to $15,000?

And the other thing is he needs to start giving you some answers on how much time he has because if he can double his income >> and it requires us to sacrifice and scrape and sell and go do extra jobs

between now and then. I would absolutely do it. >> Yeah. But I wouldn't consider this an emergency Sarah because you guys have Yeah.

So I would have a really >> I don't either. That's why I'm I'm in this place like >> I would have a hard time because now if it was in the next 30 days and you're and it's guaranteed I'd probably pull some money out to get this done. But you guys have to the end of the year. So you have plenty of leeway and runway to be able to save and pay for this car.

Now if you got to take a thousand bucks out of the emergency fund to to round it out >> to double my income.

>> Yep. Exactly. >> I think there's some flexibility within the spirit of >> push hard to say I I don't want to touch that emergency fund. Um, and what you guys could do. Do you guys have debt at all, Sarah?

>> Just our mortgage. >> Okay, good for you guys. That's awesome.

Yeah. So, I mean, I would see this as a Yep. as a sacrifice.

>> I think it'd be a fun adventure to go, how can we >> We need $1,000 a month. How do we get >> Yeah. How do we do that? How do we generate that? I actually think that's fun. I think it's worth doing. I I would I would talk to Hubs about that tonight.

And uh I think in the counter offer, by the way, Rachel, go, "Hey, listen. I want this and I could do this. You got to give me just a little bit of leeway.

Here's my plan. And here's what I'm doing. And I think if they want him, sounds like they do, they can play [music] ball with you. >> But it sounds like a good deal. I would buy a $13,000 car to Double Man.

>> Did Double Man come? Sure I would.

>> Yep.

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Brandon is up in Salt Lake City.

Brandon, how can we help?

>> Hi. Well, I just want to start by saying thank you for taking my call. uh you put out such amazing content and uh this form lets you know it's appreciated. >> Thank you.

>> Yeah. So, I have a pretty complex question uh but I'll keep it simple and then you guys can ask questions I think and I'll fill in whatever you need. But ultimately my question is uh you know I and my wife are both physicians and we're uh pretty financially sound. Um and my father is not. He uh has a pretty

well-paying job, but still lives paycheck to paycheck and actually got into some trouble this last year and had to borrow money from me. Um he's actually collecting social security now.

He's in his 70s and he has no ability to retire whatsoever and still has quite a lot of debt. And I'm imagining inheriting these troubles very soon. And I'm just kind of curious how you guys would recommend I would go about kind of

>> Well, let's address the future. Let's address what you mean by inheriting his troubles.

>> What are you going to inherit? >> Well, I I think you know ultimately I think either health is going to catch up to him or he he's kind of made some morally ambiguous decisions and I'm worried that some like the you know the what's phrase eggs are going to come home to roost or whatever. >> Well, his debt his debt is his debt. So So whatever he's done there from a debt standpoint that's not coming to you >> now. >> Yeah. In terms of like just taking care of him though and like in terms

I understand that. >> Yeah. >> Are you married, Brandon?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My wife and I are we're both physicians. We both we make a decent amount of money. >> Okay. Yeah. How much do you guys make a year? >> So, I'm in my final year of training now. Um next year together, uh about

500,000 a year is what we're together.

>> That's great. Um, oh, this is always a

hard one because, >> you know, on one end of the spectrum it's, you know, some people put up pretty tough boundaries and they're just like, I'm sorry. You know, your decisions are your decisions and I'm not going to, you know, have to be responsible for those. And then on the other end, it's like, we're not going to let our parents, you know, be homeless.

You know what I mean? Like, like like there is a >> there is a um >> a balance in all of this. So, what I would probably do is you and your wife need to sit down and run worst case scenario and I would um and and then I would kind

of play out, hey, what what would this look like? How far would we go? And then also put up some boundaries, Brandon, I don't like that he's borrowing money from you. I think that either needs to be a gift because it's probably never going to be repaid, right?

I mean >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that that's that it was a gift. I I have no age.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yep.

not going to give you any more money or dad, I will help pay your mortgage for six months and that's it. Or, you know, whatever it looks like. But those are those are boundaries, I think, in a plan that you and your wife kind of come together and decide, hey, you know, are we what what are we willing to take on?

Um >> because you're right. I'm like, if he has no retirement and if if something happens to him healthwise, he's not going to be able to work. So, he's going to have no income coming in. Um, >> what would what's his social security payment every month?

>> Oh, man. I don't know. Um, I I don't

know what that is. It's like a >> the reason is is >> I think it's it's it's it's a dicey situation. He's also a very private person and >> for me to like become invest in his finances and I understand that can be like a stipulation if he needs help in the future that I have to be able to be invited into his financial life. But to do that right now, I think it would he would blow up.

>> Great. So here's the deal. You know what happened to get you guys like a Oh, go for it.

He's super private. He'd blow up or get angry if you if you weighed in. So, you know what you and your wife do? Exactly what Rachel said, and that's it.

Don't do anything else. Say, "If there's no one else to take care of him, we will." And at that moment, you can do the best you can to guess what his social security is, but you go, "Okay, he's going to get that until he dies." >> Yeah. >> And that would be the only income he has. We can't assume that he has long-term care insurance.

We can't assume that he has We know he has no invest. We know that.

You guys are doctors, so you also know the data. If he had to go to assisted living, you know what is the average amount of time someone lives in that setting. I mean, you can do some homework and go, "Okay, well, absolute worst case scenario, this is what dad's situation is going to be." And uh, you

know, if no one else can help pick up the bill, then that's something we got to plan for. And I think you can, it's almost like a, it's almost like planning for your kids's college here. You may have to, you know, invest some money.

>> Where's your Where's your mom, Brandon?

>> Uh, like not No, they're not together.

>> Oh, they're Okay. They're divorced. Okay. Do you have other siblings? >> No. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I do. But they My other siblings are not uh capable of assisting financially. >> Okay. >> Unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What kind of debt do you guys have?

>> Me and my wife. >> Yeah.

So, we uh don't own our home, but are planning on buying a home next year, but we're currently we have uh student loan debt, but our savings and retirement uh are greater than our any debt we have.

We have no credit card debt. We have no car payment. Both our >> car walk us through that. What's your what's your medical I mean not medical uh medical school student loan. Thank you. Student loan debt. What is that? >> There you go. >> Yeah. So, 300 300,000 for the both of us. >> Okay. And then what do you have in savings?

So we have about 120 in savings. Okay.

>> And about 250 in 401ks.

>> Great. So yeah, I wouldn't touch the 401k, but obviously doing the Ramsay

plan is to pay off that student loan debt. So half of it is in savings and then what you guys you'll make 500,000 so you could pay it off in 6 months, you know. So making sure that you get all that taken care of, of course, >> before you try to take care of dad.

>> Yep. Yeah. So making sure that you guys are in a good spot, which I think you will be pretty quickly if you do that stuff. um and rebuild your emergency fund. >> Um but yeah, this is always Yeah.

>> Can I ask how when he like if you know

uh like the debtors come to collect and he can no longer afford his apartment, if I end up paying for an apartment for him, does that does his debt and the

apartment that he lives or the car he drives that all goes away? But whatever I provide for him is not a part of that equation.

>> Yeah. If it's in his name, then it has nothing to do with you. Debts, leases,

all of it. >> Yeah. But you could furnish an apartment under your name, I'm assuming. However, the apartment complex does that.

>> Um, so yeah. So like that, >> but it's not really an asset cuz he'd be renting, but >> they couldn't come after him in any way with that cuz it would be under your name. Yeah, >> that's right. >> Okay. Yeah, I guess that was kind of my fear that Yeah. his deaths would make would make it prohibitively difficult for me to take care of him and I hear what you're saying. Yeah. >> Kind of independent. >> Does he own a home?

>> No, no, no, no. He No. He um and just to get like a scope into this, he actually uh tried to go back to school in the 70s and took out student loans to do that and then ended up not going to school and just using that money to buy a car.

>> Stop it. Oh my god. How much debt do you think he has?

>> Oh man. I if if he told me $500,000, I

wouldn't be surprised. If he told me $10,000, I would be surprised. [snorts] >> Jeez.

>> Yeah. Well, it um >> Sorry, you're sorry you're carrying this burden. >> It's terrible, Brandon.

>> Yeah. >> But I would tell you this. I want and and [laughter] I say that, but I want to quickly say, make sure you understand what you're supposed to carry and what you're not. >> Okay.

>> You're the only sibling that's going to be able to take care of him. That's a burden. >> But you do not have to worry about his debt. you don't have to worry about his mistakes.

You understand what I'm saying? Like once you know all that stuff will be written off. He didn't have a, >> you know, a pot to pee in is the old phrase. And so none of that's going to come back on you.

So you only have to carry the burden of taking care of dad when he can no longer take care of himself. And that's the medically. And so you can plan for it, but clean up your house first because you don't want that to be a stressor.

It's already going to be a >> I know >> potentially resentful burden, but you know, >> and I want you and your wife on the same page, too. I don't want that to be an >> issue. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're both very familycentric and she's like, "Hey, whatever we need to do, you know, I trust you and we're we're definitely if

it does come to the point, and you probably know this, that of you having to help financially, always give in

terms of an actual item, meaning like >> uh don't give them cash, right? that you if you end up paying the rent, you pay the rent and the utilities.

>> Um [music] get a gift card to the to the

grocery store and it's like you get a hundred bucks or you know whatever it is. [music] Um as much as Yeah. Not not

handing over cash cuz he obviously doesn't know how to [clears throat and music] how to handle that. So Brandon, you're you're a good son and a good and a good husband. Um so

yeah, we're we're we're with [music] you guys.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited that you are with us. 888255225

is the phone number. Eileene is up next.

Eileen, how can we help? Hi. Um, I'm

calling about uh a trust that my husband's family has. Um, and when we

always thought when he passed or if he passed before me that I would be the one that would inherit his share and we have found out that it would go past me and to my daughter. and we're just wondering if it would be ethical for us to ask her to split the inheritance if if by any um

if he predesases me.

>> So it hasn't just to make sure it hasn't happened yet. He has not passed.

>> No, he is still here and we were just we're in our communities now. We're trying to figure out what to do. >> But his wishes are for it to go to the grandkids.

>> Uh well, it [sighs] it was set up, you

know, 80 years ago. It was the the people that are the primaries of the trust are the grandchildren and my husband would be a great grandchild and it goes through the family name.

>> Oh, so it's beyond even

your husband's parents. It went a generation above them. >> Yes, it's generations. Yes.

>> So he can't change it. Correct.

>> He cannot change it. It would it would just It is [clears throat] >> Has it always skipped a generation? Is that part of it? It doesn't it doesn't skip. It just follows the family name.

So, he gets a trust check um as does everybody else in that that generation of the family every quarter. But it's

and the um the generation that currently

is on those trusts when they pass it ends and the money would be distributed.

>> Right. But then the money is distributed to >> skipping a gener skipping a generation.

>> So only those with the name >> with the name. Exactly. wouldn't skip.

If my husband's alive, he would receive it if he if only if he predesceased them

that. >> But what about your daughter if she were to get married?

>> It would still be she would still be the family name. She's the the >> Got it. Okay. I'm tracking now. It's the It's the lineage. It's following the name through Okay, got it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, I I got to tell you, when you first said it, I I was first going to go, "Well, I feel like you got to talk to talk to the old guy about it and let him weigh on it, but it's not his call, right?" So, it's already set in motion.

>> Yeah, they're trying to keep it in the bloodline.

>> And uh I don't want to speak completely on behalf of my colleague here, but we both had a kind of gross face when we heard you say, "Is it okay to talk to my daughter and say, "Hey, I know this is supposed to come to you by the bylaws and in stone, but >> yeah." >> How would you feel about cutting us in?

I personally would feel gross about doing that. That's my take. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I would say um Elena that you and your husband need to set you guys up that if something happens to him that he has life insurance and that you're taken care of and that you don't need this trust because you guys are in a good spot, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. We never had it and it wasn't until we were in our 60s cuz we always assumed >> and had never checked how this passed

and that's how Yeah. That's how we um >> So you guys didn't do life insurance. Is that what you were saying? Because you knew this money was coming. Yeah. So, I wouldn't >> that would not be how I would [laughter] >> I would function more independently of that. >> How are you set up for the future?

What's your current retirement situation? >> Uh, you know, um, we probably have

3 350 maybe um, put aside in between

401ks and uh, savings etc. and another

maybe the >> Did this whole trust issue like do you think it demotivated Joel?

>> No. Uh we were in a bad position for many many years and I Yeah. Yeah. So

>> we do. We do. We still have a mortgage.

We but we probably have you know >> How much is left?

>> Uh 90 99,000 I think.

>> Okay. That's great. How much do you guys make a year? only about um I would say

about 89,000 combined.

>> And what will the house be worth >> if we sold it today? Over 400.

>> Okay. >> All right. So, that's getting us near, let's call it, 700,000.

Okay. Any other savings or anything

beyond the the house equity and uh the retirement fund? Anything else?

>> Uh I don't think so. I don't think I'm missing anything. >> Okay. And how old is your daughter right now? >> 24. >> Okay. >> And how long do you guys feel like you're going to work?

>> Um, you know, probably Well, the the

work we're doing now, we'd probably like to stop by 65, 67 and find something

else. We both have more physical jobs.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And the reason I'm saying that is because uh based on history, Rachel knows this, that you know that 300 How much did you say you had in retirement? 350 >> combined. Maybe 3 Yeah. Uh two.

>> So over the next probably 350. >> All right. So that should double over the next seven years. Okay. Okay. And then if you look at your home, so you start adding the numbers up.

>> Okay. And so now you're looking at uh what do we got? 400 on the house. So

>> what 1.1 million in seven years. uh I

don't know what your social security situation will be but you start stacking all that up and you know whatever you guys can do over the next seven to 10 years to invest a lot of money that's

going to help you be far more comfortable in your 70s and 80s >> and when you think about it Ela and and again all the your calls hypothetical right your husband has not passed none [clears throat] of yeah nothing has happened >> totally y so again hypothetically

you know if if if the grandparents are still living for another I don't know 10 years, 15 years, you know, your situ and

then your husband passes p if he passed away, >> then technically you would have probably at that point a half a million, $600,000 home that you can sell.

>> Mhm. >> And, you know, down, you know, downsize,

put that cash with the investments and you'll have well over 1.5ish million.

You know, you'll be fine without this inheritance is what I'm saying. So, >> okay. >> Um, yeah, I probably wouldn't worry about it. And I do feel I I I do feel weird saying yes, ask your 24year-old daughter for her inheritance. I don't know. I >> We didn't We don't even want her to know that that's the possible amount because we don't want it to >> taint her in any way.

>> Take her drive. Remind me. Remind me what was the amount that you you probably around 2 million, but at 24 that could be, you know, you could blow through that if that were something that happened. But of course that's hypothetical as well, >> right?

They would have to pass and your husband would have to pass. So yeah, yeah, I I appreciate the question. That's where we stand on that. But I think more importantly, your focus needs to be, hey, we can actually finish well, but we should probably get some intensity and see what we can do from an earnings standpoint.

Certainly tighten things wherever we can tighten to invest as much as we can at this stage. And over the next 14 15 years, that's going to turn into a sizable chunk for you guys that should allow you some dignity and and some comfortability.

>> Sounds good. >> Yeah. Thank you so much. That's a good question.

>> Yeah. Thanks for the call. Uh Rachel, >> that's a hard thing. I hear that with with wealthy families passing on generation one that it stays within the family.

>> Um >> and I get that in a in one sense because it is like what if dad remarries some crazy woman and she, you know, he passes and she takes all the money. You know, it's like kind of a drama moment of a movie. I've seen that a few times. But you also want there to be like a little bit of an addendum of like, okay, if you've been married more than 30 years, the wife can [music] take the get the money, too.

I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know what that looks like, but >> that's very interesting. You mean you give her an out after 30 years, she cashes out?

>> Well, that she that that Elaine would get the money like if her husband had passed. I see.

>> If she passed. I thought you meant like, you know, [laughter] I've done my time.

I'm out. I'm checking out. It's been a good run, but I'd like to be on my own and travel. I thought that's what you were talking about. No, I get that. I like that.

[music]

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Elise is up next in Virginia. Elise, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken and Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Can you hear me?

Okay, >> loud and clear.

>> Perfect. Um, in December, my husband's

Roth 403b was incorrectly transferred

into a traditional IRA account and has

since made $1,000.

Is there any way to transfer the money to the correct Roth IRA account without

paying taxes on the whole account all

over again? >> Who did this? Who made the faulty transaction?

So, we we opened up an account with a

with a financial institution and selected rollover, but it did not say

traditional or Roth and then indicated to the first financial institution that it needs to be a Roth rollover, but the number

listed was a traditional account.

So, >> and instead of like not going through,

they uh they cashed the check and when

we're doing our taxes for this year found that it was not trai it was not Roth, it was traditional.

>> Okay. Has he fixed has he gone in and fixed future contributions or have you guys not even funded for 2026?

We just stopped funding the account as a whole until we can figure out what we're

supposed to do. >> Yes. Okay. Well, there is something called um reccharacterizing the contribution and so you may be able to

do that without penalty or tax before

tax deadline, which is in April. It's coming up. Do you guys have a tax pro that you're working with?

We do, but I I'm not sure how much I love our current tax person because they're saying there's no way to do it.

>> Um, and the one financial institution is

is potentially recommending an excess removal of funds, but I'm I'm not sure if that would trigger taxes on on the cost basis of the account. Yeah, I would get a because there is a there's a small lane at which you can do this because it is from a time period perspective so quick and it's only you know I mean the amount I guess doesn't really matter. It's more the time frame um that you're looking at. So I would probably go get a second opinion.

Um, but also I if if if that can't

happen, if you guys can't be in that lane and you do have to pay taxes, is it just $1,000?

>> No, the cost basis is 82,000 and then

1,000 of growth. So, I don't mind paying taxes on the 1,000 of growth.

>> Yes. >> But it'd be like a $20,000 tax bill for

>> Totally. Yes. I would I would contact a Ramsey trusted um tax pro and again go

to Ramsey.com.

Yeah, to reccharacterize the contribution is a way you would do that

if you can. Um, but I but I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not 100% sure.

>> Me either. And I and again, I appreciate your spirit of saying, "Well, I don't like our tax person because they said we can't do it." But let's get a second opinion and a third opinion. And if all opinions line up, >> you don't have to like it, but it is what it is. It's unfortunate. Hopefully, you guys can undo that and not take too much of a hit. But, you know, unfortunately, you may just be stuck.

>> We have to pay. >> What's that? >> If we do have to like um we can always leave it in the traditional account, but we're 34 and 35, so you know, by the time we retire, it'd be like 1.6.

>> Totally. Yeah. So, yeah, if you can.

Yeah. If you have to end up paying taxes on it, I eventually would. You can roll over some per year so you're not hit with an entire tax bill of 20 grand, but I would eventually convert all of that 82. Yes. to a Roth eventually. So again,

you can break it up year by year if you need to from the tax perspective, but I'm I'm with you. Yes, if you're in your early 30s, I would get it to a Roth. Um

but that's so frustrating. I'm hoping there's a way out for you guys. Um if you get a good tax pro in your corner >> and and silly question here, do we know whose fault it was? And I hate using the word fault, but was it you guys clicking on the wrong button? Uh or was it a mishap, a mistake made by the institution?

So, our accountant says that it's the financial institution's error and it's their responsibility to fix it. Okay.

Well, then that >> institution says it's on our tax person

to file the correct paperwork that indicate X amount was a cost basis.

>> Okay. And your tax pro is not willing to do this?

um cor either yes or they're saying it can't be done >> because they they switched it to where you can't reccharacterize the entire account but I do think you can reccharacterize maybe a contribution like Rachel's talking about I just got here's my point I don't know at the moment might be worth uh looking into a

lawyer you know who who specializes in

this area >> cuz someone >> because the tax bill is a tax bill and you if it's on the financial institution. I would want to get two or three opinions that are legitimate that would say, "Yeah, it's on the financial institution." >> At which point now you have, >> you know what I mean? That's where I would be going right now. I would exhaust that >> uh and and you know, not have to take this on yourself. >> So frustrating. I'm so sorry. So sorry.

>> I'd fight though. >> That human error in all of it cost you ends up costing you money. So uh >> Bruce is up next in Charlotte, North Carolina. Bruce, how can we help?

Hello, uh, Rachel and Ken. Thank you for having me. >> Sure. >> Um, I'm a 62year-old disabled Air Force

veteran and a retired social worker.

>> Uh, today I just bought my 62year-old

fiance an engagement ring.

>> Hey, congratulations, Bruce.

>> Thank you. She doesn't know it yet. I'm going to ask her later later this year to marry me. >> Okay. My qu my question is um I earn

about 52 grand a year and she earns about 150 grand a year. We both are

homeowners separately and so I would

like to come under one roof uh eventually. I live very inexpensively.

She has much more of a much larger house

costs a whole lot more and her interest rate is a whole lot higher than mine.

[snorts] I live on that income. I live about $17 or $1,800 a month with everything. I have no debt besides my house. Uh she has no car payment herself, but probably 20 grand in credit card debt.

>> So, with that, I would like to know whose house do we sell first? Um how do

we make this um you know, how do we come

together on under on one roof? I don't I I don't want to live in her house uh permanently and u I don't mind if she lives in mine until we sell. >> Why don't you want to live in hers? I'm just curious.

>> Uh her house is very much hers. She loves having me there. Um but uh I my

preference would be for us to sell both properties and then >> buy something together.

>> Yeah. Yes, ma'am. I would like that. >> I do a what if conversation between now and the end of the year before I pop the question. >> What does she want to do? Have you guys talked that far? >> We have talked that far. Um, she really, really, really loves my house. In fact, she does not want me to sell it because I live on a man-made lake and it's very pristine and beautiful and peaceful and and all of that, but it is it's small. I

[snorts and clears throat] It's three bedrooms and two baths, but it's it's small. >> Does she want to live in that house?

She would love to live in this house, but then when we talk about it, she wants to make it larger and do things that I'm just don't see the need.

>> Girl, Bruce, you got to you got to spend her. And I appreciate that. That's me at 62 and be like, "Listen." Yeah. So, what I would do is Yeah. I would I would come together and have this conversation and just say, "Hey, there's probably going to be a middle ground." And I think finding a new home for both of you [music] uh could be great. Selling both.

Um, we don't really talk about prenups a lot, but that would be something as you're older and if you guys both have grown children, be thinking about your assets in that way. Um, yeah, so some some things to think about for sure, Bruce. But, uh, congratulations. We are.

Yeah, we're excited for you. But combine the combine the money as much as you can [music] um when you guys get married and become one.

All

>> [music]

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[music]

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>> All right. All right, today's question comes from Marissa in Louisiana. My husband and I

disagree on what non-essentials to eliminate. On what non-essentials to eliminate while paying off debt? I think cutting subscriptions like Netflix along with purchasing sodas, eating out, coffee shops, stops, pet treats, etc.

will make a big difference in paying off the amount of debt that we have. My husband thinks those are small in comparison to the debt that we have and we should not cut those things out because they make us happy. What is your perspective on this dilemma?

[snorts] >> Oh man. Well, there's [clears throat] just an overarching philosophy that is just true

mathematically that the the more you sacrifice and the more you don't spend on things and the more you put it towards debt, the faster you're going to get out of debt. So what does that look like in a process? You know, Jade Warshaw, um, her and Sam paid off, you know, gosh, half a million dollars and it took seven years. So Jade would say there were certain seasons of that seven years of like, hey, we need a little bit of a breather here or there, but they were pretty gung-ho the whole time, but there were things that they did to survive for seven years, right?

So, if it's a longterm play, like a major marathon, and I'm talking three, four, five, six years, there may be the little things here and there that cost, you know, nine bucks, but it just gives a little joy through it. That's great.

>> Does that make sense? There's a little bit of the longevity approach.

>> I agree. I think everything on this list I'd cut except for the pet treats. And I'll tell you why. >> I've got two doodles.

>> I love my doodles. You and George and your dogs. >> But listen, everything. Okay. Netflix, sure. >> Um, sodas. >> I would pay for a soda. No. Pay for a soda. >> It's not healthy for you. Too much sugar. Eating out. Absolutely. We know what Dave says. You don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're a waiter. You know, that whole deal. Okay, here we go. Uh, coffee shop. Overpriced coffee.

Make your own. >> But the pet treats, let me tell you why you keep the >> Your dog will be fine.

>> No, they won't. Because my doodles every

morning, I get up before everybody else. these dogs. I let them out. I let them

back in and I'm getting my coffee ready. I got a whole process. They would drive me to the brink of insanity if I didn't give them their treat in the morning.

>> Joe, everyone knows everyone's dying.

No. Give that dog a little peanut butter on a little cracker and call it a day.

>> Call it a day. >> Now all of a sudden you're Mrs. Cut the budget on the dog treats. >> Call it a day. >> Peanut butter on a cracker.

>> Sure, that's a treat. That dog doesn't know it's a dog.

That's true. My doodles totally think they're human completely. And by the way, >> doodles do think they're human. >> They act like it. They act like humans and I love them for I love my doggies.

All I'm saying is everything else I would put the doggy treat in the grocery budget. And don't go crazy with them.

>> Yeah. No, I hear you. >> Don't compare me to George, by the way.

[laughter] >> That's that's a bridge too far. Uh Logan is up next [laughter] in Dallas, Texas.

Log Oh, what did I do? >> Oh no. >> Oh boy. You hung up on Logan. >> I hit the wrong button. >> You got so flustered. >> Hold on. I'm so flustered that I called you. I got the doggy treats. I'm up in arms. I got you. There's Logan right there. Logan, I'm sorry. I pressed the wrong button. How can we help?

>> No. All good. I I think I may be the first person in Ramsey history that y'all hung up on. >> You know, most time it's people hanging up on on y'all. >> That's true. >> You know, I've never hung up on anybody.

>> Dave hung up on someone on Monday >> next to me. >> Yeah. He was [laughter] feisty and he hung up on someone. got to tell you, I enjoyed it. It was fun to witness, but I won't do that to you. >> Logan, we will not hang up on you. >> I'll be on my best behavior. I promise.

>> We'll see about that. What's going on?

>> I um I am calling with a question. Uh my

wife and I had our first child in October. >> Congrats. >> And um thank you. And I thought we were

being very responsible and started saving when we figured out we were pregnant up to our out-of- pocket maximum with insurance.

Well, we have now gotten to where we have met that out of pocket out of pocket maximum, but still are receiving hospital bills. And these hospital bills are to about the tune of $1,400.

So, I'm a little bit conflicted with how to handle that. Um, >> I have the money to pay it, >> but I don't necessarily feel like I should. And I I I was looking for some guidance. >> You're right.

You are right. If if you are saying if what you're saying is true. Yeah. I'd be the worst nightmare of my insurance company until they got so sick of hearing my name because if the policy is the policy and you've hit your out of pocket, then hold your ground.

>> And look at I'm not shocked. The billing within the medical world, everything, it's it's horrible. So honestly, it's probably an administrative error to be honest. They probably didn't even hit something in a computer they should have.

>> Wait a second. He's got a retort here. >> Oh, what is it?

this. I talked to my wife's talked to the insurance company. I don't even want to know how many times. I've I've been on the phone with them a couple. She has a lot more patients than I do. Um [laughter] but um all of that to say they are claiming that the reason for the overage is that this hospital which is in their

network um exceeded the amount for a

private room that they allocate on the policy. However, this hospital that again is in their network does not have any other option. It's not like we like opted for some sort of an upgrade to get right >> you know the fancy room. It's just the room's there that cost that much.

>> See, that's between that's between the hospital and the insurance company. And I would just absolutely fight to the end

on that. This is the kind of crap that the American people are having to deal with. I'm so sorry uh that you're having to deal with. >> I guess the question is who I who who do I need to fight? Point me in the right direction. The insurance company? Is that the hospital? >> Both of them. I'd go to the hospital and I'd say you aren't going to get paid on this from me. So this is where you guys

go to the insurance company and fight it out with them. >> Yes. So I did that and they could not help me over the phone. >> I could not get a hold of somebody who had the authorization to >> settle the amount.

>> Um I was told to send an email to some very generic billing email address. So I, you know, got on chat GBT and got some help with professional wording that was maybe a little kinder than what I would have written. >> I'd show up. I'd show up >> and Okay, >> show up.

>> Show up and just Okay, >> just go. Hey, here's the deal. I got an outstanding situation. You guys want to get this paid on this $1,400 bill?

Let me tell you where I'm at and you've told me to do all this and I've done it. By the way, I can show you my record of sending the email. Go in there and make the case and go, "Hey, I'm not mad. I'm not going to, you know, threaten anything.

I'm here because I need you guys to get together and insurance and I and I would, you know, I just wouldn't pay him a nickel is my point. >> Yeah, I would not pay them. >> It's frustrating because I mean there's a lot of people like I have friends now and I don't necessarily agree with this, but I just don't pay it because supposedly it doesn't count against you financially or credit scores and all that, but that doesn't necessarily sit well with me. Like I don't want it just >> Well, you want it you want it resolved eventually.

Yeah. I'm not saying when I say don't pay it, I don't mean just, you know, >> put your head in the sand. But I'm saying I would fight and put it on them and say, "Guys, I'm not going to pay something. And here's why.

to figure this out. My policy says this.

I've done everything that I can do, and you two need to get together. Hospital, you sent the bill. Insurance won't pay it." That's y'all's problem.

>> How long, Logan, have you guys been dealing with this?

So, uh, our daughter was born in October. So, since October the 8th.

Well, I say that. >> Well, when did the bills start?

>> Two months to even get the bills out.

So, yeah. So, I mean, >> those started showing up probably late December, early January.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I'm going to double down on what I said. And let me tell you why.

Because if you go talk to somebody and you're nice and you are a nice guy and you just go, "Hey, I'm here. I'll wait. I got two hours today. I got an hour next Thursday.

I'll be here. Count on it. And here's what I want to do. I want to show you everything because you all, it's your bill.

You have to explain to my insurance company that we didn't get an upgrade. We didn't get the corner suite with the couch pull out. This was your the room you gave us. And I think if you're kind and civil and you just show and say, "This is your problem.

This stuff happens all the time. You know what happens? I believe deep down, Rachel, this is a conspiracy theory.

Probably >> love it. I believe they just love to not

deal with it knowing that people eventually give in >> and they'll just pay [music] it. >> And I think if you just say, "I'm not giving in." >> It's the fight. And you hear this all the time with medical stuff, it is the billing, [music] all of it, it is a it's exhausting. But for that and for your grounds, if you want to stand on there, do it.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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[music]

[music] Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:es 13 and 14. One thing I do forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Our quote today is from CS Lewis. Getting over a

painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point in order to move forward.

>> Oh, >> love the uh that's really good.

>> It is. Now, quick question before we move on. Did Did are monkey bars still on children's playgrounds? >> They are. They're there. >> Okay. I'm happy about that. Me too. My wife and I were talking recently. We were looking through some old photos >> and I'll never forget the first time our oldest who's now 20.

>> We did monkey bars and I got in trouble because I let him fall.

>> Oh gosh, Ken. Sometimes they're super high. >> It wasn't. >> How old? Okay. >> And they were wood chips below so it wasn't concrete. And I And when I say fall, he wasn't like panicking or freaking out. He was just letting go and I and I was right there >> and I kind of guided him as he felt cuz I wanted him to go it's okay.

>> Yeah. >> It was not okay. >> Oh no. >> Stacy was not happy. She's like Ken, what are you doing? >> She had a word. >> What are you doing, Ken? >> Uh-huh. He could have broken his leg, his arm. >> All for a little monkey bar. All for a lesson >> on the wood chips. >> On the lot of wood chips. A splinter.

Yes. >> Might be able to bounce.

>> I learned my lesson there. So, dads, >> you remember that 20 years later? that hands up and and let them fall

>> little bit, >> but catch them >> right before >> and then they're going to learn some trust in you. I was trying to do a deeper life lesson. Did not go the way I >> for the three-year-old Ken. >> There it is. Be careful the monkey bars.

Uh air is joining us now in Philadelphia. How can we help?

>> Good afternoon. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you?

>> I'm good. Thanks for asking. I wish a lot better, but uh >> oh, >> I'm doing good. Thank you. >> Okay. How can we help? So, um um I'm I'm

I'm about 50 to 55,000 in credit card debt

with another 20 on top uh because of my

car and I just needed some advice on how

to get out. >> Okay. >> Oh, man. What's the credit card debt? Um what caused you to go into $50,000 of credit card debt?

Um well I'm I was divorced about three or four years ago now. >> Okay. >> And um I was just distraught after that.

I wasn't paying attention of where my money was going. >> Okay. So it was just kind of lifestyle spending, grief spending just in the in an unhealthy place in life and money was a little bit of an outlet to >> Yes. Medicaid better.

>> Absolutely. I don't drink or smoke, but it's again just not being as responsible as I should have been. >> No, it's fine. Yeah. >> What kind of income do you make?

>> Um, I make about 60 to 65K.

>> What do you do?

>> Uh, truck driver, semi.

>> Okay. And anytime any opportunity for overtime right now or are you capped?

>> Absolutely. >> How much?

>> Um, it's kind of hit or miss. There's like there's no uh >> Okay. >> Well, I mean to give you a direct answer, maybe uh once a week.

>> Okay. >> Once or twice a week. >> All right. Let's go. >> Let's go once or twice a week. We're just kind of ideating for a second.

Okay. Once twice a week over a four-week

month. How much extra income would that bring to you?

um over a month it would bring me

maybe two to 400 extra dollars.

>> Only two to 400. Okay. Is this open road or is it local driving?

>> Local. >> Okay. So, how many hours a week are you putting in driving right now?

>> Uh right now anywhere from uh

from 40 to 50.

>> Okay. And and do you have the capability? I don't know what's going on in your relationship life, but do you have the capability of driving an additional 20 hours if you picked up a second truck driving job that had a good hourly rate? I'm thinking 20 plus an hour.

>> Um, that's the thing. I I have a daughter. >> Okay. >> So, and we do have a child custody

arrangement. >> Okay. >> How often do you have her? Is it every other week or is it um certain days of

the week? >> Yeah, certain days. three days out of the week and then every other weekend.

>> Okay, you get where I'm going. One of the one of the things you have to do here is get more income. And that's going to allow us to to pay off $75,000 worth of debt. Tell me about the car really quick. How much do you owe? Well, you owe 20 on the car. What is it worth?

>> Yeah, it's about 20. I'm not sure what it's worth. It's a 2015. It's in kind of good shape with 90,000 miles on it.

>> Do you think you could get 20 out of it or more?

No, I think I'd be lucky to get

>> 1617. >> What's the car payment every month?

>> 600. >> Do you have good credit?

>> Absolutely not. >> Okay. Because what I was thinking there, Rachel, is do we go to a credit union and try to get out of that car? >> What? Yeah. So, I would you Kelly blue

book this car. Okay. And let's just say it's 17,000.

>> Air. What I would say is my first goal would be to get a $1,000 emergency fund.

And then I think what I would do is start to save and stockpile and see if you can make, you know, $1,1500

extra a month. Okay?

>> And within six months, you'll have six grand. So you'll get you can throw three of that 3,000 of that at this car. And

so when you sell it, you can, you know, you'll be clean of it. And then you'll have another 3,000 to go buy a really crappy car when that sells. And then that gets you 20. So now you're down to 50,000 of credit card debt. And then you can start really attacking that credit card debt. And again with what you're

making and if you can work extra, you know, it may take you about 2 years to climb out of this credit card debt, but you could you can do it.

>> It's just >> however long it takes. I just need to be pointed in the in the right direction.

And um >> I'm pretty dedicated. Like once I get the ball rolling, I just need to be told that I can do it. >> You can listen, let's get real numbers here, okay? If you did $3,000 a month,

now this is going to be extra income and life is not going to be fun, okay?

You're gonna be working like crazy, but if you can do $3,000 a month, okay, that's going to get you out of this debt in a year and a half.

You got to have >> that 3,000 extra on top of what I'm

>> or or I mean, well, if you play Rachel's

plan here, like she's talking about, we get rid of this car, then you've got the 55 >> of credit card debt. I'm talking about that number. >> And if you freeze up your car payment too, Amir, that's 700 bucks right there.

So out of that 3,700 of that for Ken's math >> is part of that, right? So really, you're trying to find two extra thousand or $1,000, right? So anything extra with

that car payment that you're not paying that car payment anymore cuz you sold the car. That's going to really free up a lot and you really will start moving.

And what's crazy too is um you know we talked to so many people when you're on a journey that's you know that two to three years um even four years you know you may get a raise in the meantime you know stuff stuff happens in that length of time and any extra money that you have >> you throw at this credit card debt and how many credit cards equal the 50,000 [clears throat] >> um five >> five are any of them in collections >> I think one is >> one is okay because if any are fall into collections there's a good chance you negotiate that down >> as well.

Um, so if [clears throat] that's even a $5,000 out of the 50 or whatever it is, 10,000, you could probably negotiate that for half or even less than half. Um, but yeah, but where I would start, Amir, is I would get a $1,000 emergency fund.

>> Yes, >> you do. How much do you have saved?

>> Um, I'm going to say about maybe 24

right now. 2400.

>> 2400. Okay. Amazing. Not a lot.

>> No, that's great. No, that's awesome.

So, yep. I would keep a,000 as an emergency fund. I would have that other 1,400 as my get get money saved to buy a

new car and to pay the difference of this car that you're in. Um, get that rolling, right? Get the car situation done and give yourself five months to do that. Say, you know, by by July or

whatever it is, right? Have a time frame. Say, by July, my car is going to be sold. I'm going to have enough money saved up to to do the difference and buy

a crappy car in the meantime and then

start in August. I got a two-year journey to pay off this credit card debt and cut up the credit cards. Don't go near them and really start, you know, moving forward. But if you stay on the line of mirror, we're going to give you um the total money makeover book that'll walk you through the baby steps and every dollar. We'll give you a year subscription. That's our budgeting app.

>> Yeah. that also you can plug in all of your numbers too in that and that can help you through the process. But we are here for you. Call us back if you need us.

But that's that's where I would start and you're doing great. You I mean genuinely the first step is the belief that you can do it [music] and that you can start something new and change your habits which the making this call is that first step. Deb, thank you for the call. Uh listen, remember this everybody.

>> [music]

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## 109. Money Chaos Doesn’t Have to Be Forever | September 18, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:07:29 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and host of The Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Phone number8825-55225.

Daniel is in California. Hi, Daniel. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thank God. First, I just want to say I'm I'm a big fan. Um I'm young, but I I

first heard about you in uh in high school. Wow. >> I just wanted to say that. >> Well, thank you. >> Um uh so I'm 23 years old. I started a

finance brokerage about three years ago uh with some outside investors.

Initially they promised about a million to two million of investment for half the company and then um basically right as we signed like a major office lease.

Uh they had some financial troubles pulled out leaving me with all the overhead. Um at that time I decided to

just try and pick pick up the business myself. At one point we were doing about like 200,000 gross a month. Now it's closer to like 100 to 120. Um, after

expenses, uh, it's probably around 40 to 50. And then during that rebuilding process, I racked up about like maybe 80,000 in credit card debt. Um, now the

investors want their money back. They originally demanded double. I I negotiated it down to just the principal. Um, the challenge is given their connections and influence, I can't really just like refuse to pay them even though it was an investment. So, I'm trying to figure out, you know, the best way to pay them off the the credit card debt while still being able to grow the business. >> What's your business do?

>> Uh, we we're like a brokerage. We assist small and mediumsiz businesses to obtain financing.

>> Okay. So, you're brokering business loans, >> correct? Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um,

and you did all this by yourself at 23 years old?

Uh, at the time I was 22, but yeah, now I'm 23. >> So, so the um is the investment these were venture

capitalists that were put putting money in for a piece of the ownership.

Correct. >> Correct. Yes.

>> And they invested their money in. And is there uh any documentation on how that

investment was to be governed, when it was to be repaid or anything like that?

Yeah. So, they were they basically pledged about a million heard that then they didn't do it. They didn't do what they said they were going to do. But what's your documentation say on the deal? Surely you didn't do this freaking deal on a handshake.

>> Correct. Yeah. The the contract said that they they were supposed to contribute until it's profitable and that was kind of their role. So, technically, according to the contract, they they didn't hold up to their part,

>> right? And the contract said they were going to get their money back. how >> it would it had just been through equity, >> but they were going they were going to be an owner a percentage owner of the business. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah. So eventually when the business were to become profitable they would get uh half of the profits.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Um

well I number one I don't buy that anyone has the influence to put you out of business. I think that's absolute bull crap. So, I'm really don't care what they think. They broke their word.

They violated the contract. They're in default on the deal.

Okay. Yeah. >> From an ethics standpoint. And until

they're profitable, they don't get anything. But they're, you know, they were supposed to put in a million dollars to get half. They never played through. They only put in 300,000.

And so what does the contract say about

parties not following through and being in default?

>> So what's kind of weird about the situation is given who they are and they're involved in the community I'm in and they were put together by like somebody we personally knew. Um it just

was going to be a really big mess if I were to try and basically say you defaulted. You're you know you don't deserve the equity. >> You know what? so intimidated by something that just does not exist. I don't believe what you believe.

>> Yeah, >> I'm calling BS. You You've got these guys made out to be some big deal and they're they can't can't even come up with the money they're supposed to come up with. So, I don't know how they're a big deal.

>> So, the thing is now that they're apparently doing better, that's kind of like where they came back to light saying, "We're ready to reinvest." And I'm like, "No, >> no, you're you you didn't follow through on the you're in default." So go back to the question Dave just asked you because it's the right question. You didn't answer it. You went into well because of their what does the letter of the contract say as it pertains to these

investors? They are in default.

Everybody on this phone call agrees. So what does the contract say?

>> The contract says that they would only have a a reduced equity amount based on

what they gave. So >> So that's what they got.

>> Yeah. And if they want their money back, toughies. >> Yeah. He just >> So that's that's kind of like the >> here's an idea, boys and girls. You're going to abide by the contract this time.

>> So the the thing is my question basically is um that's kind of the ultimatum they gave, which was okay, either we're going to we're going to own a percentage of the company um or you're

going to you're going to buy us out. So given the types of people they are, obviously I want to get them out.

>> Yeah. But you don't have 300 grand.

Correct. So my question is, is it would it be smart to try and put together some sort of payment plan with them to to try and wipe that out? >> Yeah. I mean, how much can you do? 25 a month, be done in a year.

>> It would it would I mean, that's kind of the question. If I try and put that dollar amount, I'm worried am I am I really >> Why don't you give them a percentage of profits that is equal to I mean, what's

your typical profit in a month? You said 40k.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, let's give them 50% of profits until you get your 300.

>> That's that's the idea that I had. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's good.

>> And then I got to tell you, I I I do want you to reset >> and realize that you you still have these guys on a pedestal where they do not belong.

You think they have more power than they actually have and you think they have more influence in the community than they actually have. cuz I know people in our community that screw people over.

They're known, but they're also known for screwing people over.

>> And so, you know, and when it's not convenient, and when it is convenient is when they do deals. And that's that's who these guys are. So, they're not as influential and powerful as you have made them out to be in your mind. I promise you, they're not. Okay? Guys

that break on deals like this are not guys that they don't hold influence because other people know this. They know this about them. You're just finding it out late.

other people stayed away from them when you did a deal with them. So I don't don't do any of this based on ooh oo oo these guys are a big deal. These guys aren't a big deal. They're a couple of crooks. Didn't follow through on their deal. And that's who I'm negotiating this contract with. Yeah. If you want to buy them out for 300, give them their 300 back at uh 50% of profits until you

get to 300, no interest, then that's fine. And that's going to take about a year give or take. Yeah. I mean that's okay.

Do that. But uh and and I think you need some legal advice cuz I don't think you you know I think you're reading a contract that was written by guys that screwed you. And so you need to get someone else to actually look at this contract and make sure cuz a lot of contracts what I'm saying Daniel is a lot of contracts like this say if you're in default you lose it all.

nothing honey. Just like the cereal nothing honey. Okay. That's what most contracts of this type would say.

Default means you out, baby. That's what it means. Means you you didn't put a million in. You only put 300 in, so you lose the 300. Nothing, honey. You need to check that. I think it might have a nut and honey clause in it.

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Exclusions apply.

[Music]

>> Brian's in New York. Hey, Brian. What's up? >> Hey Dave, how's it going? Uh, pleasure to be speaking with you. I've I've been following you for years. Um, >> yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, obviously I've I've been following you.

I've been listening to you, but I haven't been implementing the, you know, your strategies. Um, so just to give you

some information, I'm 29 years old. Um, I just finished up college last year. I got my undergrad. I have about $55,000

in uh student loans. And then I have about $35,000 in $35,000 in uh credit

card debt. And um I just got a uh a job

with an insurance company. Um it's a $80,000 starting salary with a 10% target bonus. And um obviously because

of the loans and then the credit card debt, the the credit card debt got so bad that um I had to go into a like it basically was a charge off with the credit union that I was with. And so it's two cards. One's for about 19 and one's for about uh 16. So I I'm kind of,

you know, like you said, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Um, I've been, you know, haven't been using, uh,

haven't haven't had good spending habits the past couple years. Um, but luckily I did get this job. I just started about 3 months ago. Um, but my credit score is really bad. And >> what you paycheck to paycheck?

>> Before that, I was I was working about I was making about 35,000 while I was in school. >> Okay. What is the credit card debt composed of mostly?

>> What did you buy >> to be honest with you? Um, just a lot of of of uh partying, just being an irresponsible young 20-year-old and uh yeah, in my young 20s and just uh mismanaging it and just spending it on on going out and doing, you know, >> whatever it was. And just >> Were you able uh not counting the partying, but just food and shelter and lights and water? Were you able to exist on the 35,000

income?

>> Not really, to be honest with you. Um, a lot of >> What's it take? What's it take for you to exist bare minimum right now?

>> Like 40. >> Bare minimum amount. I would say about about 45 to 50.

>> Okay. Call it 50. You're making 80 plus

bonuses. >> You have no car payment, none of that.

>> No. No. So, >> so if you put 30 If you live on 50 and you put 30 on the debt, Yeah. >> you're um debtree in two and a half

years.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

>> How far behind are how long since you paid the credit cards?

>> It's been um it's been about three years. >> Okay. Now, you can probably settle those for about a quarter on the dollar.

>> So, the first thing I want you to do is I want you to save up $4,000 and call them and talk to him about the $16,000 one and say, "I've got $4,000. Would you if you can accept that a settlement in full, I'll give it to you right now." No, no, no. We want payments. No, I can't do that. But I can give you 4,000 as settlement in full. We can't do that.

We It We require six. Okay. I'll have to call you back later cuz I don't have six. I got four, >> right? >> No payments, no process. And settle those for pennies on the dollar and clear them out and then attack the student loans with a vengeance. But you're going to have to get on a written plan. And here's the great news. You're

about to turn your whole life around so that you can turn this debt around.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. because you've correctly identified what caused the problem. Now

you've got a second chance at being an adult making 80 grand and now you got to be an adult.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> So the guy in the mirror, he he's a different dude now. Starting ready today. Starting today. Ready, set, go.

>> Absolutely. Definitely will. cuz that cuz your money's going to flow out of your personal healing and maturing.

The fixing of your money is not going to occur independent of you maturing and healing. You understand what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> Those two things are together. They're part of the same equation because personal finance is 80% behavior.

Behavior comes from you.

And so, you know, if you go, okay, this 80,000 I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else win while I was screwing off and I'm that's no no more me. Now I'm in the game. They're getting ready to give me the ball and I'm going to run the ball in the dad gum end zone and nobody's going to stop me and I'm going to look in the mirror and say on Friday night I'm working extra. I'm not going to happy hour.

>> Absolutely. >> Cuz I'm getting out of debt and I want my life back and I want to be a 30-year-old man, not a 20-year-old party animal.

I'm just I'm playing back for you what you said. Okay.

>> Yes. >> But I'm speaking life over you, son. You can do this.

>> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

>> Yeah. I I want to ask you real quick uh on that end. I'm sitting here listening here. You are a guy who listened to Dave for many years while doing all this destructive stuff. So that tells me that

your conviction, your values

aligned with what Dave had been saying on the show and yet your behavior was different. So I'm just real curious, not putting you on the spot to embarrass you, but but to lift you.

>> What is what's going on below the surface? >> What was really going on? Why all the partying?

I think um I just had a

there was just like a I guess a like like a low self-esteem issue that I had

uh in my young younger years and I I kind of finished up school late. Um >> I had some like a rough go in my you know after high school. I I really didn't didn't uh take things seriously

until I was about 24. And then that's when I started I realized I was like I I got to get back in school. I got back in school, worked my ass off while I was working, paying for school, and uh I got

it done, and I got I got a great opportunity. >> Now, now you get to ring Now you get to ring the bell. >> So, here's here's what I want to leave with you on this, cuz Dave nailed this.

Uh you didn't think you were good enough

to pull off this money value stuff that we teach. You didn't think you just had a self-esteem issue. And we don't need to dig anymore, but I think it's really important you get off this call and realize what's really going on here because you're going to be tempted again in the days ahead to believe this false narrative that you weren't good enough to live like no one else.

>> Yeah. >> I I just really think that's way below the surface. >> Yeah, I agree. And he said it. I mean, it's what he told us. Yeah. So, you're exactly right. Exactly right. Hey, Brian, go get them, man. And call us back when you're winning. We want to hear your story. Okay. I love it.

Hadtie's with us. Hattie is in Indianapolis. Hi Addie, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, I'm fine, thank you. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, how can we help?

>> Um, I just need some guidance about

whether now that I have the means, I

should pay off my aranged son's student

loan debt. >> Why would you do that?

Well, because uh before we were aranged,

I promised him that when my father died

that I I knew I would receive some money and that I promised him that I would pay the debt. >> Okay. >> There's no legal obligation. I know that. >> Yeah. Okay. How much is it?

>> $30,000. >> And how much money do you have?

>> 2.5. >> Okay. Um yeah, I'd pay it off.

>> Yeah. It's not about him. Okay. It's about you, >> right? >> You're keeping a promise you made. Has nothing to do with anybody else. This is you being you >> cuz that's who you are. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> And uh it just makes it greasy. It makes it slimy.

>> But um and and it does make you go, "Am I am I losing my rapid mind?" But 30K out of 2.5, I think you you'll be okay.

You know, you can burn that much in the middle of the floor and not worry about it. And I but I I would have zero expectations that this fixes the arangement. It's just you keeping your word. That's all it is.

>> Right. Right. And I don't want him to feel like, you know, >> I can't control how he feels.

>> Right. No. Exactly. >> All I can control is what I promise to do and I'm going to do what I promise to do. >> Yep. >> That's all I can control. Very good. >> That's all I can control. If I could control him, he wouldn't be estranged, you know? I mean, I can't make him do anything, you know. He wouldn't be he wouldn't be off the ranch, right? So, >> yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you're going through that. How long have y'all been disconnected?

>> Four years. >> I'm so sorry.

Over what? >> And he's 25 now and doing well. Um,

well, there was a straw that broke the camel's back, a big argument his senior year of high school, but I was a single mom most of my life. And I think I he

was raised in a household full of my anxiety and fear about how to how to be

a single mom.

>> I'm sorry. Yeah. Hey, you raised him.

He's eating. He's alive. You fed him.

Sometimes you just got to kick back and go, "That's what I did. I was trying to get by. Oh well, next thing." Yeah, I'd

write a check just to keep your word.

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Aaron is here in Pittsburgh. Hi Erin, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. I am a realtor. Um and as such, my

my income fluctuates. Um I just started

the every dollar budgeting. I have the app. Um here's my question that since I

started, I've put my business fees in

with my household expenses and everything else. No. >> Um and now I feel like Yeah. I I know.

So, I I'm getting I have an appointment at my credit union to get a separate account. >> Um, but here's my question.

>> Is is there should I get another budgeting? Should I just open up a different Every Dollar app or should I put those expenses in the current Every Dollar app or how do I budget this?

>> Uh, you could try to run in the Every Dollar app. It's not really well designed for a business P&L >> and a profit and loss statement and you really need a business P&L. So, it's just something like QuickBooks or something like that. They're very easy softwares.

And basically what it is is it's all your gross revenues, the income you make in the real estate business goes into that separate new account. >> And the only thing you pay out of that new account is business expenses. So, your realtor fees, if you uh, you know, buy signs or you buy, I don't know, anything that's a valid business expense associated with you doing your real estate business comes out of that account. Nothing else.

>> You don't pay any personal bills out of that account.

>> Okay, great. >> And what comes out of that account then when you take money out of that account and bring it home, you need to set aside a fourth of it for taxes.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So if you pull, you know, if you pull $10,000 out of that account, you need to set 2500 aside because you're supposed to be filing once a quarter your estimated taxes. They're called quarterly estimates and you're supposed to be doing that as well. If you don't keep up with that, number one, you'll get behind the eightball and have a big old tax bill and it'll knock you down.

Number two, you're going to get penalized. So, um, sit down with a tax

preparer and help that get them to show you how to do your, uh, your quarterly estimates, set up your separate account, run this, run your separate business like you were running it for someone else, and then when you pull the profits out and bring them home, set aside a fourth of it, and that money all is coming home. So, how much have you made selling real estate so far?

Um, I mean it it fluctuates. This year my net commission is around 45. Um, and

I estimate a little bit more. I also have some other income sources, so I'm trying to >> I'm just trying to tweak everything.

It's all in a big pile.

>> Yeah. Good. What are the other income sources?

>> Um, I teach part-time at a university.

Um, and I Uber and I get some child

support. >> Okay. All right. Well, child support goes straight into your account. No question about that. When you teach, is that a W2 or are 1099 in you?

>> That's a W2. >> Okay. So, you don't have any tax. So, that money goes straight into your account. >> Okay. >> Correct. And um Okay. So, that just goes Okay. >> Yeah. And your Uber's $1099. >> Not the Uber. Should uh Yes. So, should I put that in the real estate account?

>> Yeah. I I would just say this is my business account. I'm going to put my Uber income in there. And I'd have two line items. You know, I have real estate income and I have Uber income. And so,

you know, you can you can code the expenses. Uh, for instance, let's just use an example. If you were spending money on fuel to show houses, then we

could have gasoline- R for real estate. And then we could have gasoline-u for you, for Uber.

>> Okay? And then you could be able to pull up the different expenses associated with Uber, the different expenses associated with real estate, but they're all still net expenses going right down the list there, and you'll be able to tell what's happening with your business. >> Yeah. Question. How much are you spending uh how many hours a week are you spending in the Uber?

>> Um I spend about 15 to 20, give or take.

>> Is that because you're running really tight financially?

>> Yes. this correct right now I am. But it's also good income just I I've just >> not income if it's not good income if you're selling real estate. >> Yeah.

I I want you to get out of that is where I'm digging there because that time spent that time spent there could be spent in other ways and I want to see you get out of that. I'm not sure that's the best ROI on your time. Not to mention tearing the car up and everything else. So I understand if you're filling a gap temporarily, >> but you were saying that's going to change.

>> Well, I had a few uh sales that got pushed. It's usually a little bit more regular, but sometime but it's it's up and down. So, sometimes I'm so busy I I literally can't eat and sometimes I I have nothing to do and I'm just prospecting and not not earning anything. So, I'm trying to get more I've never really budgeted. So, now I have the Every Dollar app. have the great advice from you all and I have more of a sense of stability and um

consistency. So, I think that's going to help me. >> Yeah. The more you can get a steady flow in your real estate pipeline, the more your income's going to be steady in your real estate pipeline and it's going to be a better income than Ubering.

>> That's right. And now that you're budgeting, I love where your head's at.

That's where you need to get to to where you're accounting for downtimes, but

you're actually prospecting, prospecting, prospecting, not in the Uber. That's where you want to get to because you're going to see a much better pipeline and long-term results that way. >> Shane is in Texas. Hi, Shane. How are you? >> Good. How are you, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, I just wanted some guidance. Um, I'm getting ready to sell my home. um got divorced within the last year and um got a little bit of debt with a little bit of commercial debt, a vehicle and then some student loans. Um nothing terribly crazy for my income level, but I just want to position myself best for being a homeowner again. It was about maybe a year or so after I sell my house in the next few months. So, um just kind of

looking what what best to do with that money.

>> Uh so, you're going to get enough out of the house to be debtree.

I'll be I'll be pretty close. Um so current currently I have about $9,000 in commercial just credit card debt that um I paid about 10% of that down in the last year. And then uh I'm currently on baby step two. And then I've got a

vehicle that has a note about 16 to 17,000 on it and that's that'll be paid off in just under two years. Um still a

new vehicle, all reliable and that's the main reason I've kept it. Plus I'm not upside down on it right now. Um >> what what is your income?

>> Uh about 125 gross.

>> Okay. And how much will you get out of the sale of the house?

>> Anywhere between 20 to 25.

>> Okay. Why would you not just pay off these debts?

>> So that's that's my plan. I just kind of want to figure out what if you had any guidance on where best to put it first because I'm not going to be able to pay off the total amount. Um >> there you are. You're getting 25. You only owe 16 and nine. That's 25. Well,

and I've also got a student loan that's about 16,000. U and so and that's

basically if I pay out I could pay almost all of everything. My my idea was if I pay off my vehicle and I and I hold the value in that for a while and then I also pay off the credit cards, then I'll just be making a student loan payment, which will be my lowest. Uh if I do that, I'll be paying the least amount of money per month at minimum and I can pay it off faster. Um, but I didn't know if

that was >> So, if you don't have a car payment and you don't have the other loan and all you got is a student loan and you make 120 and you're no longer married, how fast are you planning on paying off 16,000 of student loan?

>> I think I could probably pay that off within a year. Uh, >> oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's horrible with making more. That's so wimpy.

>> No, like like four months. $4,000.

>> I mean, that's all Yeah. That's also realistic. >> Yeah, it is realistic. also got Yeah.

Yeah. Add to that, I've also got I've got three kids and I pay child support as well. There's not it's not a 125.

>> Stop your 401k and pay off your student loan in four months >> and when the house sells when the house sells immediately pay off the other two debts. There's nowhere to park the money cuz you're going to pay off the debt. It's going into your checking account. You're going to write a check.

Pay off the debts. >> Yeah. >> And then in four months, $4,000 a month, dude. Roll up your sleeves and get after it.

It's time. Listen, it's a new phase of life, a new chapter. Let's make the page clean, okay?

Go, "Oh, I paid off $900 in a year." You

that bull, that's nothing.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

Take a quick quiz for free to check your progress and receive a free personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click the link entitled, "Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the free quiz?" Sharice is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Shereice.

How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, well, I'm calling my husband and I. Um, well, my husband agrees. I want to

add an addition to our house. We've been in our house 14 years and our kitchen is tiny. Our house is large. Um, we have a

family of six. Um, so we use all five of

our bedrooms and I have a homebased daycare. So, we use a large living area

um as my business. Um, and I would like

to add an addition on the back of our house which would give us the kitchen that I'd like. It would also bring our laundry upstairs. Um, put a bathroom on

for um, the daycare. So, they'd have their own bathroom and it would give us a four season room which would just give us more living space. Um, the addition

would cost us about $150,000

and um, I want to refinance to be able

to do that. My husband is on board but

says you would say no way.

>> Oh, how much debt do you have not counting the mortgage?

>> Uh, no debt. >> Good. How much money do you have not counting retirement?

>> Um, about 15,000. Um, as personal, but

daycare also has its own emergency fund of 10,000.

>> Okay.

All right. And you're funding retirement now?

>> Yes. >> Good. Okay. Sounds like you got a pretty good plan overall. What's the home worth today?

>> Um today it's worth about 375,000.

>> Okay. All right. And um

so are you in a neighborhood or on a piece of land or what?

>> Uh we are in a neighborhood. We're inside the city limits. Um, but we're on a large lot. We have about 3/4 of an acre, which is one thing that I love about it. >> If I drew If I drew a circle of three miles around your home, >> what's the typical house price in that three mile circle?

>> Um, I would say, well, I found another

home um that checks all of my boxes and

it was selling for 875,000.

I don't know an average price. Um, That's not in a 3m radius of your home, though. >> Oh, it is. Yes. >> Oh, it is. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> So, what what do the houses what do the houses on your street sell for?

>> Um, between

300 and five, I don't know, five or

600,000.

>> Yeah, I do. They don't sell for that much. It's between 300 and 450, isn't

it? Really? You're getting ready to overbuild the neighborhood, aren't you?

probably. Yes.

>> You're going to have a house that that you would try to sell for 600,000. And people that are looking for $600,000 houses don't drive on your street.

>> That's probably true. >> Yeah. That means you've overbuilt the neighborhood. So, that probably means you need to think about moving instead of doing this. Well, how's the daycare business? How healthy is it?

>> It is very healthy. Spitt

what did you make last year off of that profit?

uh daycare I made um like 60,000.

>> Okay. Um >> I guess Dave, where I'm going is is if are we doing this for the space or are we doing this because the daycare is in the house and you know >> because she wants a kitchen.

>> Um why we're doing it. Um it's a $150,000 kitchen and some other stuff got scope creeped. Um the um

well I I um I have owned so many pieces

of real estate and I grew up in a real estate guy's house. My parents were in the real estate business so our furniture was trained to jump on the truck. Um we so I have I don't get as

emotionally tied down to certain locations as some people. Um, so to me

it's just a house. >> And so I think you might actually find

something that better serves your needs uh for 600,000 in a neighborhood that's that's 500 to 700,000 and um maybe is a little more

modern too um and would be close enough

that you wouldn't lose your daycare clients and those kinds of things. I think that's out there. And before I overbuilt the neighborhood and did a renovation, and by the way, I've also done a couple of renovations while I was living in the home, and I'll never do that again. It makes me want to shoot myself. Uh that it's just a it's just sawdust and drywall dust everywhere. And it's everybody's mad all the time. Uh

the the subs are mad because they got to deal with the owners. The owners are mad because they got to deal with the subs. And you're you're you're screwing around inside my house while I'm trying to wash my underwear. It's just it's awful. It's just awful. And so I don't recommend it.

um the um uh from a standpoint of that

this is a massive undertaking. It's a big deal and it's going to take a lot of

your life away for a year or a year and a half while you do this. Not to mention that when you're done, you've built a house that's kind of weird and it's overbuilt for the neighborhood.

So, you're going to have a hard time getting good appreciation out of it and getting a good sale out of it. I would consider moving about 10 times out of 10

before I did this deal. Um, but yeah,

that's uh if you did refinance it, the numbers we would tell you to go with are 15-year fixed on the whole mortgage

cannot be more than a fourth of your household take-home pay. If it's more than that, then it's just off the table, period. You can't do it at all. Um, and that's also going to be true when you move. It's off the table, you can't move. So, um, but, um, I I I think

you're you are getting ready to have another full-time job for a year on top of the full-time job that you have, which is renovation.

It takes up it takes up so much of your head space. You burn so many calories managing a renovation, especially one while you're living in it. And it's just a it's just a deal. I I can't recommend that to you. It's going to interfere with your business. It's going to interfere with your marriage. And when you're done, you're going to have an unusual floor plan on a property that you've overbuilt the neighborhood on.

And I can't I just don't think there's not much good here. The only good thing in the whole story is you got a new kitchen.

>> Yeah. You all ever renovated a house while you lived in it? >> No. Uh we've done little uh we did a room over the garage, but it was so I guess Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. But it wasn't like It wasn't like a fullblown to where it was like interrupting everybody's lifestyle.

>> And my oldest daughter took her house all the way down and they but they moved out and lived somewhere else for a year.

>> Yeah, that makes sense >> because you just could she took it so far down she couldn't >> work on it. I mean couldn't live in it.

It was it wasn't habitable. So, um but they they did a massive deal and it's almost like building a dad gum house. It's a matter of fact sometimes it's easier to build a house >> uh in terms of how much of your >> brain power it takes up and those kinds of things. So yeah, folks, here's the deal. The best place, you've got a range

of 10 to maybe 20% uh price range of the

homes on your street, the homes in your neighborhood. And be thinking about the illustration I just used when you're thinking about buying a home. Um or you're thinking about doing a renovation. Okay, Dave, I want to put in a $25,000 pool. Okay, how many houses on your street have $25,000 pools? None.

You're getting ready to spend $25,000 that you will never see again. That's a lot of swimming because that thing you're not going to increase the value of the house. No. Okay, Dave. 60% of the homes already have a pool. We're going to add a pool.

The the pools are very nice in our neighborhood and $25,000 is or 50,000 or

whatever the deal is. You can spend a million on a pool. But um but uh you

know, so does it fit the neighborhood?

Otherwise, it's consumption.

And you really can't justify consumption at those levels. You're better off to move. And and so um when you're buying a

home, try to buy in the bottom 25% of the price range. That is going to go up

more cuz think about everybody buying a

$500,000 house in a wants to buy in a h

in a neighborhood that's 500 to 700.

Nobody buying an $800,000 house wants to buy in a neighborhood that's 500 to 700.

So, it's harder to sell and consequently does not appreciate in value as much.

And so, you want the full appreciation and you want the ease of selling it. And if you're in the bottom 25% of the price range in your neighborhood, when you're finished with your renovation or when you purchase or when you do whatever, that's the sweet spot. But when you're in the top of the neighborhood or over the top of the neighborhood, you're you could get stuck in the thing. And if you build an unusual floor plan, you're just about guaranteeing you're going to get stuck in it.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Ron is in Indianapolis.

Hey, Ron. How are you?

>> I'm good, sir. How you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah, so uh I'm getting married spring and my fiance said I should probably give you guys a call for some advice. I have recently lost my job and I am in a

lot of credit card debt and we're also trying to plan a wedding. So, we're trying to figure out um the best way forward. The question is um should I dig

into my IRA account and take that money

to pay off on my credit cards for more cash flow?

>> What What was your job?

>> I was a uh construction project manager.

>> And what were you making?

about 75,000 a year.

>> And why did you lose your job?

>> Laid off. >> Why?

>> I have no idea to be honest with you.

>> They're not making money. >> I got told uh No, I do have um veterans

disability coming in. It's about $4,000 a month. >> No, I said they are not making money.

Was the company you were working for hurting financially?

>> I don't think so. Um, they let a team of

us go and said, "We just have to cut

some costs." So, I'm assuming we didn't see the big picture, just

>> commercial or construction?

>> Construction. >> I said commercial or residential, I'm sorry. >> Oh, um, commercial.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. And when did you get fired?

>> I got back in August. So, it's been

about a month. And what have you been doing since then?

>> I have been um going to school and uh

applying for jobs like crazy.

>> Talk about the jobs you've been applying for and what you did.

>> So, I've been applying for more project management positions um specifically in IT because that is my uh education

background and I've had a few interviews. Um I had one today that was pretty successful. I'm hoping and praying that that goes further.

>> Okay. >> And what's the schooling? And were you doing the schooling while in the other job?

>> My current schooling, I'm getting a master's degree in information and communication. Um, and yes, I was going

to school while working that job.

>> And you have no physical disabilities that that would hamper you from doing this work?

>> Correct.

Okay. Um, no, I would not cash out your

retirement. I'd get a job. I'd get six jobs.

And and and then when you get a real job, get rid of five of the six,

>> but I'd be working like a crazy man doing everything I could because you got to pay for a wedding and you got to keep the dog the thing afloat without start starting to cash out your retirement. You cash out retirement, you're going to get hit with a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. It's like borrowing money at 40% interest because you didn't get off your butt and go get a job. The good news is you are off your butt and you have been looking and you did get an actual interview.

So that's great news.

yeah, you you are moving your feet in the right direction. So that's the direction. That's the answer. And if you don't land something in the next two weeks and start working like for 75 or 80 or 100,000 um then you need to be delivering pizzas and um uh walking dogs

and cutting grass and cleaning toilets or whatever you've got to do to start making some money.

>> Yeah. >> But no, don't cash this stuff out. Go make money. >> Okay. >> Go make money. Work, work, work. Doing something. Side hustles, anything. and get the wolf away from the door because it's causing you to uh think weird like you're you're your whole question is based on I'm defeated and I'm not going to allow you to be defeated.

When's the wedding again?

>> Uh May 30th next year.

>> And who's paying for it?

>> We are. >> Okay. And how much is the wedding?

Um, we have cut it down to about

$15,000. >> Good. Very conservative. And you've got how much in credit card debt?

>> I have roughly $70,000.

>> Okay. So, $85,000 changes your whole

life.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And once I quantify it that way, you're a project manager. I start looking at it like start looking at it like a project.

Okay. How do we go get $85,000? What must be true? and what period of time and what's reasonable and I'm going to work it on the side and I'm going to uh oh by the way you should be doing that that's what you ought to be doing is get some IT stuff some side hustle there because all kinds of that you can pick up a freelance immediately on contract work and start start helping people with IT whatever it is where hardware software issues but aside from that I'm you know I I just set the goal I put eight it's like I'm building a building all right what's the bu what's the pro process well I need a budget I need a plan and I need a And I'm going to plug the contractors, the subs into the schedule.

And I'm going to plug them into the budget. And then we're going to execute and push every domino. And when one domino refuses to fall, we're getting a new domino. In other words, the sub doesn't show, we get a different one.

Or he comes in, decides he's going to double his bid. No, that's not how this works. We have a bid. We're going with it.

And we hold to the project and we push push push push push.

$85,000 in two years is 65 is uh I'm

sorry, 425 a year. So, 4,000 bucks a

month, >> right? That's what I need >> above my living expenses. And I'm out of this whole thing in two years. I paid for the wedding and I paid off all the credit cards.

And uh that's not counting the fact that you're going to have a dual income after May 31st. I'm just making I'm just showing you an example. You just How do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time.

But now we've got to go get the money to do that. And that involves the Yeah. >> getting employed. >> And if this is a big if uh you can pause the M's program, I'd pause it.

I don't know if he can, but if he can, I would because that'll still be out there. And right now, everything now is about getting out of debt, paying this wedding, paying for this wedding. Uh the master's degree is always going to be there. >> Creating a sustainable situation, and that means income.

>> That's right.

Here's what's going to be weird, Ron. A as you add income to this equation,

whether it's four side hustles combined to make a full-time job while you're looking for the full-time job or a full-time job plus four side hustles, as you add income, every time you add income to this equation, your confidence level is going to go way up.

>> And it's going to be associated with your level of activity and and you know, and then you're going to be much more uh appealing in an interview.

>> Yeah, it's exactly right. activity is absolutely the key when you get let go.

There's all kinds of data out there about it's the same thing emotionally as losing a loved one. So, you have to acknowledge that wait a second whether I was a group of people or not and whether I did anything wrong or not, if it was just a layoff, in this case it's an economic layoff or or the company's economics, it still hurts and and so activity is the key. Still feeling valuable because you are providing value

and getting paid for it. Dave, you're absolutely right on that. That's the best thing one can do. Lick your wounds for a day or two at most and then get

back into it and stay active.

>> So, let's give him a copy of both books of Ken's uh or two of Ken's books anyway. Uh the proximity principle, which will help you in the job search.

Yeah. >> And uh finding the work you're wired to do. Take the assessment in that and verify that you're in the right >> field and that you're heading into the right mindset. And both of those are a gift to you, Ron. And uh we'll just call it an early wedding gift. How's that? Um yeah, I'm going to I'm going to fix this with income, not with cashing out my retirement. That does things for your heart, your soul, and your future. The cashing out the retirement does the opposite, too.

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john's in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey John, how are you?

>> Good afternoon Dave and Ken. How are you doing today? better than we deserve.

What's up, >> wonderful? So, I either need confirmation of how I'm feeling or I need a kick in the shorts. Um, my wife and I are trying to decide if I should quit working. Well, kind of, at least for a time. So, every weekend and during

many work nights, I do admin, property management, and accounting and HR work for my wife's small business and our we

have a few side hustles, mainly rental real estate. But during the day, I'm I daylight as a manager at a construction company where I average 40 hours a week over the year, but that emphasis is on the average. Winter is really easy, but the rest of the year I'm just running on fumes. Um, between my business, my

wife's business and our rental and remodel side hustles, I work, you know, 25 hours more just during nights and weekends. And I'm always behind. I feel like I need another 5 to 8 hours a week to catch up. If I hire out all that

extra that I do, we estimate we'd add about 83 grand in expense, more or less, depending on the project load. I make

120 a year with bonuses to 40. My wife

makes between 4 and 500,000 a year, um,

which has been lower because we've had four kids in the last 5 years and and she's been on maternity leave for parts of all of that. This year we're shaping up around 592 if we don't make She's an attorney >> and you're running the business ops side of the law office.

>> Exactly. Right. Admin, HR, anything that

>> How many team members at her law office?

How many work for her?

>> Five members counting her.

>> Okay.

There's not a ton of HR of five people, but uh >> just payroll uh you know every two weeks and >> Yeah, that's accounting. Yeah.

>> Yep. >> How much does your side How much does your side work make spin-off for you

>> for for 2025? We're looking at 42,000.

>> Okay. So, if you if she paid someone 80

to be her admin or office manager,

uh, and instead paid you to be the office manager and you went down there and went to work for 80k and you made

40k with the side stuff. That's 120. And

then she makes 4 to 500 on top of that.

Right. >> That's exactly right. >> Okay. >> It I just it I just love working and I

don't like to admit that I don't have enough hours in the day and I just don't know if I'm being >> Well, you did admit it. You just gave us a very detailed breakdown.

>> Yeah. >> You just you what you don't want to admit is you think you need a Superman cape or something and I don't think that's necessary. >> What's the quandry? Why'd you call us?

What what would you rather do? Be the

office manager for the law firm or

do the what's your your construction work during the day? Which one do you like doing? >> I I like doing the other one. I want to do the side hustles. I think that helps our life. You know, I can we got four kids that, you know, in five years they'll stop destroying the house, but for the next five years it's hard to keep up with just the life, you know, laundry and eating healthy and all that

stuff. But it feels like I >> house husband was not in this equation until just now.

>> No, no, no. I I that wouldn't be what I would be doing. I'd be doing the 25 hours of work plus the eight hours I think I need in addition to >> Yeah. You're going to have an office at the law firm and you're going to get up and take a shower and go in at 8:00 every day. >> Yes. Exactly. >> And work there all day long and from that home base run the side hustle as well. And then both of you are going to go home at 5:30 to be with the kids.

>> Exactly. You're right. Spot on.

>> Yeah. This is not We're not working from home. This is not remote. You're going to go down there and run the freaking law firm and it needs to be run much better due to you being there and become much more profitable.

So, you ought to be cutting expenses and help the other attorneys increase revenue, billable hours. >> Yep. >> Correct. Yep.

Okay. >> That's exactly what I want to do. And it wouldn't be at 8. It'd probably be at 5:30 in the morning and, >> you know, >> Yeah.

be able to be home earlier and and do those things because right now the >> I mean you basically got two jobs. Which one do you want to keep is what it amounts to and I think you've already decided. But I don't think you keep both. It's not sustainable and there's no reason.

>> Yeah.

>> It does it doesn't prove anything.

Listen, if you don't have a shortage of money, working 100 hours a week doesn't prove anything.

That's what I gota that's kind of the paradigm shift to wrap the head around.

>> So I think I think you you know let's commit to increasing the value of the law firm as a result of you being there.

Commit to the side hustle becomes increased in value as a result of you being there more fully. And u so you end

up moving from 120 to you know $150,000

worth of value that you're adding to the equation. And and then she's making the 4 to500 and y'all are killing it. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I' I'd quit.

>> All right. >> But I'm going to work. But I'm going to work down there. >> I'm not doing this from my bedroom >> with my slippers on. >> Yeah. It's I I just sense that you're still struggling with this. You know, this is this is right. Um >> what's what's holding you back? >> Something's there.

>> It's it's the it's a classic uh gazelle

intensity and no not knowing when to let off. You know, we we in the last 5 years, we charged into baby step five, six, and seven. And and how do we let off the gas? You know, >> this is it.

This is how >> can I also say that I I don't know that this is what you feel, so I don't mind being wrong, but I just have a hunch that you're a good dude and you believe in hard work and hard work is a part of not just your identity, but I would say your value system.

like you're mailing it in while the wife is making big money and you're having a hard time with that. That's what I think's really going on. Am I right or wrong? >> You're very right. Yep. >> So, so I thought so. >> You should do this for a living, Ken. Yeah, that's >> Well, I' I've talked to a few people here. Here's what I think then. Okay.

So, thank you for being honest about that. What Dave laid out for you is not

a guy who is mailing it in and letting his big shot wife lawyer bring home the

bacon. That's not what we heard from you. Nor is it what Dave prescribed. So the narrative needs to be, hey, I'm actually going to cut back on this other gig to inmeasurably improve our life.

And what I'm doing as the husband, as the man, I am making a massive change,

which will also be a massive contribution. You believe that? I heard you say it. So that's what the focus is.

>> So I get it. I completely see where you're coming from. But you got to change your focus. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's um I'm able to add

enough value to this situation that it makes sense. And that's what it comes down to. And that's what we did. And I'm doing that. And I'm not cloaking this in some weird work life balance crap or um

or or this is an excuse to be remote or

all that. It's not it's none of that.

This is it's not you hiding at all. This is you stepping into uh another thing but much more fully. And um yeah, you

got your lack of focus. You're probably not doing great at either job. And all

of a sudden, when you start doing great at this job, I think you're going to see an increase in revenue and uh net profits anyway, whether it's reduced expenses or increased revenue, uh on both the side hustle and the law firm, just because you're freaking paying attention all day long and you've had a good night's rest. >> Yeah. There's an old phrase, I think they made it one of those cheesy successory posters once. If you chase two rabbits, you lose them both.

And and that's there's some great wisdom to that. You know, there's just only so much you can do with divided. >> I've never even caught one. What are you talking about?

>> If you chased a rabbit and caught it. No, >> I've shot him, but I've never chased one down.

>> I know. I said it was cheesy, but it's an old phrase. A lot of truth.

>> All right. Yeah, that's I mean, you can't you can't you know, tough to serve two masters. >> Yeah. >> We should say if you chase two rabbits, you're going to be double frustrated.

>> Got to prove how slow you really are.

>> Yeah. Oh.

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[Music]

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Hannah in Minnesota. I worked for a small business for 30 years until it was sold a few months ago. I still worked for the company under the new owner.

My former employer surprised me recently by telling me that because of the part I played in his success, he will be gifting me $25,000 next month. I am not his employee anymore, so no taxes will be taken out. I've researched this scenario but can't find an answer on how I deal with this when it comes to tax time. Is it called a gift or should I ask for a 1099?

It is not really compensation in terms of me working for it. I want to avoid tax problems if at all possible.

expertise. What do you think on that one? >> I would sit down with a Ramsey tax pro, an ELP, an endorsed local provider under the Ramsey trusted program and get an actual piece of advice. My opinion just reading this is it's a gift. You don't have to do anything.

>> Now, the gift is large enough that it does trigger a gift tax, but that's on him, not you.

And so, if he tries to claim this as an expense in his business, then that's

compensation.

It's not a gift because a business can't give an give a gift and write it off as

an expense unless it gives it to a nonprofit the the um a 501c3, right? And

so if he if if you give a gift to an individual from the business, it is not an expense.

But that's not up to you. All it's up to you is you got a gift. Somebody gave you $25,000. It's that simple. Uh, I don't think it's taxable, but you should double check with um you might

here's the problem. If he claims it

as an expense, he has to issue a 1099.

>> Does it matter that this is probably coming from the proceeds? >> It is. It's coming from the proceeds. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But he still he he's he could claim it as a business expense and say, you know, I'm just paying out um some of the old employees.

Okay. and claim it on $1099. If he pulls a 1099 on it, now you got a compensation issue. Now you got to pay taxes on it, >> right? >> But if he just simply sent you a gift, Merry Christmas from an individual to an

individual because you don't work for him anymore. Um, that's not taxable.

>> So, uh, >> shockingly not. >> Yeah. Again, it is taxable on him if he

hasn't done hadn't got some tax advice on how he does this. So, anyway, wow.

Hannah's in Missouri. Hey Hannah, what's up in your world?

>> Hey Dave and Ken, glad to be on here.

>> Well, good to glad to have you. How can we help? >> Yeah, so my husband and I are newlyweds.

We've been married for just shy of four months and we come from very different worlds when it comes to money. I'm a pastor's kid number four, like no money

in the family and he's an only child and

comes from a lot more money than I do.

and um his we are still in that weird

transition of out of just getting out of college, still young enough to be on parents' health insurance. And I'm

wanting to find the best way as a wife to encourage my husband to become fully

separated from his parents financially.

I know that that's the healthiest, the smartest, the wisest decision. Um but they still are very much like, "Hey, you need something, just call us. Give us a call and we'll pay for it here. We'll pay for it there." and wanting him to stay on everything for as long as he can to soak up all the money he can and I

have not had that luxury. So, I'm trying to find the best way to go about that conversation, I guess.

Well, I think there's two or three issues. One is them giving you cash or buying items for you. Um, two is staying

on health insurance. Uh, three is staying on their Netflix plan and their cell phone bill and furnishing a cell phone or something like that. That's the kind of stuff that you people usually look at, >> you know, not not getting rid of that uh

those kinds of things. So, um,

so what does he say when you talk to him about this?

>> Um, sometimes he's like, "Well, they're just being nice. Like, it's okay." um if

it's a really big thing that we need help with, he's like, "Well, just let them help." And I personally am just like, "Uh, hey, we can go without and struggle through this without um having the extra help because >> like give me an example of a big thing." >> Um for me it would be furniture. Um I'm used to living in an unfernished house until you can get it right. But they hear, "Oh, he wants a bookshelf or wants a couch or whatever." And they're like, "Well, let's just buy it. Let's just buy whatever he wants." And I'm like, "Well, no, we don't have the money, so let's just wait." And um that I guess that's an easy example.

>> Yeah, that that does.

Okay. And you've been married a year?

>> No, just shy of four months.

>> Oh, four whole months. >> We're not even there yet. >> When you when you say that to him, does he does he dig in as to asking you why

do you feel that way? I get why he says what he says, but I'm curious, does he lean in a little bit to understand where you're coming from?

>> Yeah, he understands that. um uh why

independence really matters to me. Um I think it's just all new to him. Uh he lived with his parents up until we got married. So he had not been independent until about he's 24. Um he had gone to

college and they're just like this my baby boy so let him stay for as long as possible. And I'm like >> well the good the good news is the good news is they're very kind people. They're very generous people.

>> They're not toxic about it. They're just being overly helpful.

>> You're not describing bad people. You're describing sweet people, but they are violating boundaries. And you guys are not able to have the dignity of a standalone house. And you're missing that dignity.

>> Yeah. >> And they they don't even realize they don't even realize they're doing that. They they're really these people are not there. There's no malice in anything you've described.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I I think you just continue to talk to him and say, "Honey, um I'm not

okay with us not having the dignity of a standalone situation. The only way we need a couch in here is if we buy a couch or if there was a special moment and they said, "Okay, for Christmas, we're going to furnish the living room for you." Okay, that's an okay thing.

>> But that's a Christmas. That's not just every time you had a wish, they send the stuff start showing up on your porch.

>> You know that that's we don't need that.

I think it eats away at my pride a little bit because I'm used to being independent. Yeah, it does. It does.

>> I'm not used to that. But I think you described that perfectly there. >> But I think I think you need to set your pride aside when it's an honest and a clear gift >> versus a pattern.

>> That makes sense. >> Like for instance, Christmas or for instance, they say, "Hey, the whole family's going on a trip next year. We're paying for everybody. Set your pride aside and go." >> Mhm. >> Okay. That's right. If they want to pick up dinner, same deal. >> Yeah. Mom and dad, they're old. they got money. They want to buy dinner when they take you out. I buy dinner for my kids.

My kids got plenty of money.

>> Um but it that's just a that that's okay. I mean I >> Okay. >> Uh you know, you do some of those things, but that but the what what is those should be oneoffs and individualized situations, not a pattern. And what you're dealing with is a pattern that your husband needs to respect >> your desire for some uh individuality,

some dignity on. >> Yeah. And so, honey, it's really, really important to me that we have our own Netflix account. It's really, really important to me that we have our own cell phone. And it's really important to me that when you turn 25, we move the health insurance. And we've got a plan to do that, and we lay it all over there. Until then, we can ride this one.

It's really, really important to me that we just don't randomly get things from them every time we had a wish.

>> Sometimes some generosity in individual

holidays or birthdays or gifts or trips or something. We can look at those things. But this pattern of they support

us, I can't deal with it. Eats my guts

out.

>> And you you could tell him that. He can hear that. >> Yeah. >> That's a good way to approach it. I like that. >> Yeah. So, I left when I left home, um I

was more in your camp >> and it was like, >> yeah, >> good luck.

>> You're on your own.

>> Sink or swim. >> You know, if if you really get super hungry, call two days in advance. We'll have some some spaghetti on the stove when you get here. But other than that, you're on your own, right? My wife, on the other hand, was her family was more like your husband's family and very kind people, very generous, and and a lot wealthier. And um I couldn't stand it.

He owned a market, a convenience market,

and when we would go in at Thanksgiving, all the kids filled up their cars with gas. >> Oh, wow. >> To go back home. And it drove me nuts, just like it's driving you nuts. But but it's like that was a little gift, a little something that was but they grew up going to the market and getting gas their whole lives cuz he owned a market the whole I mean but now when you're 26 you should probably quit getting free gas from dad you know. It's like golly.

[Music]

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[Music]

John's in Minnesota. Hi, John. How are you? >> I'm doing great today. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> That's great. I uh say I am currently

dating a woman. We've been dating for two and a half years and we plan to get married and all of that good stuff and we've already talked about finances and we're going to join him together and we're on the same page about that. So, that's all good. Um the question that I have is that we are both currently homeowners.

Um she operates we both operate businesses out of our homes. She has a salon built into hers. And then I do it stuff uh 30 hours a week. And then I'm also a musician, so I play about three times a week as well.

And so when we get married, um obviously, you know, we only need one house. So I'm trying to figure out what to do. I there's not enough room for me to office out of that house as well. Uh she has four children and so I won't be able to move all my stuff and all my music gear and all that fun stuff there.

So I do currently have a roommate that's helping with the mortgage.

then if I do sell the house what could I do with the money and then rent an office?

>> So there's not room for you to move everything you do into her house with her salon and her four kids.

>> That's correct. Yeah. There's not even enough rooms for all the kids. One of them sleeps in the big main room in the basement, has his own little corner, and he's happy. But yeah, there's not even enough bedrooms for everyone to fit.

>> Okay.

Uh, what's your home worth?

>> My home uh is roughly worth around $170,000 and I owe about 7172 on it. And so

there's a decent chunk of equity in there. But I do also uh I have an equity

loan out right now to my ex-wife uh for 24,000. So it's probably down to about 22 now. Mhm. Okay.

Um Okay. So, what would Let's see. You you you do it work from home.

>> Yeah. So, I'm a service desk tech and so a lot of what I do is based out of the house. I get the tickets. I'm kind of the first line response and then we can remote into a lot of different clients that we have and help them. Otherwise, I do go on site, but I do need an office of some sort.

>> And that uh you don't need an office for your music.

No, but I do have a lot of gear associated with it. Uh, I do a little bit of recording. Most of the revenue from the business comes from actual performances and so there's a small SUVs

worth of equipment essentially that I also need to store and load and load out all the time, too.

>> Okay. And there's not garage room at her house for that.

>> There's a garage, but it would need some substantial work in order to become a little bit more proof from the elements and stuff. We're in Minnesota. I don't know if you've been up here. It's a little cool colder in December here than it is in Nashville. >> Heard the rumor. Yeah.

>> What uh what is the uh mortgage on the

house that you own? >> You said uh 71 >> 70 >> and then has No, no. What's the payment?

Sorry. I'm looking I'm going somewhere with this. The monthly payment. What is that? >> The payment is 960. So it's not a large

payment at all. >> And the reason I'm asking that is if you play this out the way you laid it out, I'm wondering what would it cost you to rent a small office space?

So yeah, I started investigating that and um in the downtown area here, it would be about 550 to get an office and then it could be first floor and stuff too and I would have 24/7 access to so

when I need to access it to load and unload gear for the weekend gig.

>> Oh, so you could also store the stuff there as well.

>> That's what they're telling me. I haven't had a chance to tour yet. I'm kind of >> where I was going next. The next question I was gonna ask you is what's going to cost you for a very small storage unit to store the stuff. I'm I'm looking at at least run through those numbers if I'm you to go if I sell the house, clear my debt, and you know, my expenses actually can go down. In other

words, I'm not paying a mortgage anymore over there. >> How much is your roommate paying you?

>> 550.

>> So, your net out of pocket's about 400 and if you keep the house.

>> Correct. Just for the house. But then, you know, double up on utility bills and all that if I rent an office. As far as I saw that they were communicating to me, I won't have to pay for internet or your air conditioning or any of that fun stuff. >> Mhm.

>> I I think the office is a better play because I think it simplifies your life.

I think keeping the old house is a more complicated thing and it's going to take up more head space while you're trying to learn to be married to a lady with four kids who runs a beauty salon >> and um and while you're trying to run your business and everything, you've got one more thing to deal with and that's roommate and all this other stuff. And I think it I think it's just the cleanliness of it, the simplicity of it of being in the office feels really good.

>> And that's kind of what I'm leaning towards as well, too. I've had the house. I signed the papers uh with my brother and my father the day after I turned 18. So I think >> a lot of my hesitation is probably sentimental. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, but it is, you know, we are turning the page to a different chapter in your life.

>> You're now going to be a married dude, you know, and so >> married dudes have different things.

>> Nothing wrong with that. >> This is true. >> Nothing wrong with that. >> Yeah. And you know, and I'm trying to let go of that side of it, too. And I don't really I'm I'm working through the baby steps right now. I'm uh I was up to my one my step one being complete, but I just had to get some >> How much debt do you have and stuff?

>> Uh not a whole lot. So I like I said, I do have a home equity loan. I have >> No, I got that. But I mean, how much debt other than the house do you have?

>> $6,000. Not very much at all.

>> Okay. So you can clear that too by selling the house.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. This advances you into baby step three pretty solidly. Does she have any debt, not counting the house?

>> She does. She has um some credit card debt and stuff like that too. And so just >> Yeah. You guys combining your finances, cutting up her credit cards and clearing all this debt with the sale of your house and moving into this office. Now I've got a whole another reason to do this. Yeah. Sell the house.

>> Okay. And >> yeah, and get out of debt, both of you, and you're both together or now unified.

And um this is the upon marriage, of course, we're talking about all of this.

And um then then we're, you know, we're combined and we're moving forward. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the way to go. Lynn is in Ohio. Hi, Lynn. How

are you?

>> Hi there. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, what's up is my son when he was around 18 uh co-signed for a car loan

with a girlfriend at the time who is now an ex-girlfriend. >> Wow, that was stupid.

>> It was really stupid. And I had no idea that this had happened because he didn't ask me about it before he did that or I would have said no way. Um so now of course they've gone their separate ways and um >> and she's not paying.

>> Well, not very well. >> Okay. Is the car is the car in his name or her name?

>> I believe it's in her name. >> Okay. Nothing he can do except talk her out of it.

>> Um well, we've tried that. was trying to encourage her to refinance um with another >> You tried to encourage her to refinance or he did?

>> I did. I I've I've talked to her and but she has since stopped communicating with me. >> Well, no kidding. Who wants to talk to you, >> right? >> You're completely interfering in something that isn't even yours.

>> Boy child needs to grow a backbone and call his ex and get this straightened out. He seen his mama in.

>> Well, I don't think she'll communicate with him either. >> Yeah. Well, that's that's the only one she should communicate with >> cuz that's going to keep him from suing her. >> But you got no footing in this.

>> He wants to file bankruptcy to get his

name off of >> No, he didn't file bankruptcy on a car that hadn't been repoed just cuz he's pissed at the ex-girlfriend. Let's Let's just take stupid and double it. No,

no, no, no, no, no. Mama, you got to stay out of this. This is not your play,

boy. child done made this bed, he gets to work in it. So, um yeah, he needs to

call her up. He he needs to get an attorney and uh tell her that if the car is not sold or refinanced in 30 days that he's going to sue her and ask the judge to force her to sell the car because she's not paying on time and she's destroying his credit. So,

wow. But, but you cannot this is not

your job. M >> let me tell you what if she didn't hang up on you in the first 30 seconds you were talking to her I there's something wrong with her she shouldn't have been I mean she who are you calling me that's

what she >> I'll tell you what this is this is that helicopter mom you know that hey I'm trying to help out my boy you know what are we doing here man this is this is the thing that's happening in this generation the parents are showing up in places >> that if our parents would have shown up in >> buddy of mine got himself into a mess when he was that age. And he called his dad, who was an old Marine sergeant. He said, "Dad, what do you think I ought to do?" And he goes, "If you're big enough to get yourself into this, you're big enough to get yourself out.

Call me and tell me how you did it." >> That's right.

Talk to you later.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality and number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Michael is in Seattle. Hey, Michael. What's up in your world?

>> Hi, Dave. Um, I am I'm a single parent

with um disabled children and I have

about 15,000 in Sally May loans and

80,000 in government student loans on the save plan. And um I've done Baby

Step One. I'm doing the Every Dollar app

um and that's going well and uh I've

been getting my hands on your your

advice and on your podcast about uh

student debt and how to try to improve

that. And uh I'm just looking for looking for some advice on on kind of what to do here.

>> Okay. You said you had you're a single dad of disabled children. Tell me about that. >> Yes sir. Um so I I take care of them and

I take care of their need and they have

um uh medical appointments you know

throughout the throughout each week that that I take care of. And >> what is the nature of their disabilities?

um intellectual disabilities,

um neuromot disabilities, all four

disabilities that uh all of them. Yeah,

all of them have a have a variety of of disabilities. >> Wow. And you have full-time custody?

>> Um I have um Yeah, full I have full

primary full primary custody.

>> What that mean? Does that mean you have them all the time or what's that mean?

>> Uh yeah, I have them I have them most of the time. Um I uh I don't have them for

um a few weeks in the summer and then uh

I split Christmas and spring break.

>> What do you make? What do you do for a living?

>> I um work as a care coordinator. So I help people get into assisted living homes. I help people get on uh a variety

of Medicaid waiverss and then I helped them get um disability supports and I um

currently am at an hourly rate and I'm working part-time. Uh but as I build my clientele, it moves to a commission and

it seems like the commission is actually a pretty good a pretty good commission.

Like for example, uh you know, part-time part-time commission is about 5,000 a month. uh full-time commission is uh

closer to 8,900 a month, but I'm not I'm not there yet.

>> Who's watching the kids when you're working?

>> Um I they're at school. Uh they're at

school and then um after school they're

watched by family. >> Okay.

>> So, what is the I'm just sitting here listening to this and it feels like you need more money. You need to make more money. >> Yeah, I need to make more money. That's >> what's the long term? What's the long term? Let's And you got a lot going on, but let's just assume that you could snap your fingers and do the thing you wanted to do and make more money. What is that >> at 8,900? When you get to that point, are you going to be okay?

>> I feel like I I would. Yes. Um uh it's a

it's a good job. Um there's a lot of potential for growth. Um, it takes four

to five years to really learn it. Um,

and I've been doing it for about a year part-time.

Um, >> why are you only part-time?

>> Uh, because um I'm taking care of taking

care of the the the children's, you know. >> Well, then how would you be able to be full-time?

>> Say that again. Sorry. How how are you going to be able to move to full-time?

>> Um, I've been I've been um

uh slowly adjusting my or increasing my

hours. I've been able to um

uh work work a little bit at night, uh work on the weekends from home.

>> Well, you told me you told me just a few minutes ago that the kids are in school and then when they're not in school, family's watching them. So that would tell me that you have time to work full-time.

>> Um they I have so so they get to school about um they get to school about 9:30

and then they're out of school about 4:30. Um and I commute I commute uh an

hour each way. Um, and so I'm working

um, Tuesday through Friday from about

11:30 to about 4:30 and then I need to pick them up by 5:30. So that's my work schedule.

>> Okay. So what glares to me is we need to

get a job locally uh, or two jobs, talk

to family. I mean, you've got to really step this game up here. the the the work situation you have is not helping you and four to five years to be able to make that.

>> You got to make way more money than that well beyond four to five years from now.

So, you need a new professional plan is what I'm trying to push at you.

>> So, are these children um adopted or

biological?

>> Uh biological. >> Okay. And is there a prognosis to be

self- sustaining as adults or will they always need care?

One of them will probably always need >> one. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So, I I don't I don't know the answer to the equation unless there's some way you can do some of the work remote and some

from the actual office um to that allows

you to be there as much as you're trying to be there. Um and I I don't I don't know. You've got two things pulling at you that are both very valid things. And one of them is very valid is to make enough money to clean the mess up and have a sustainable life.

And two is to take care of these children. Um, and you're a great guy trying to figure out how to do both. And I don't have a great answer for you, but um, but bottom line is it what Ken said it earlier and you already knew that before you called, Michael, is this is a math problem and it's an income problem. And so what can we do?

we're how we're caring for these children or who's caring for the children or whatever? What can we do to

get you to get you in a position that you can make your 8,900 and that means

you're working full-time instead of part-time and uh I don't hear how you're getting there right now. So, but yeah, that the these it's not it's a it's a

terrible paradox to be stuck in between in between this. Uh but it's also one that it's that you know you're you've been appointed to solve this and um so

you've got to create some um income

while providing this care. And I don't have a magic wand. I don't know where to tell you. I wish I did. If there's anybody wanted to help today, it was you. Man, what a what a thing.

>> Yeah. I would just say simplify this.

We've got to find something from 9:30 to 5:30. we've got to get a job that doesn't require me to drive two hours a day. There are some things that can be changed here which will make this far uh

less hectic for you because you already got a hectic life. So simplifying so that you can then maximize your income is is the goal here without us giving you super specifics. That's the goal. So I'm thankful that the kids are in school, thankful that you got family to support you. That does give you a chance here even though I'm sure it feels really really hard. >> Yeah. uh you can get out of this.

>> It it is is a it is about arranging life

in such a way that you can make a living. >> Yeah.

[Music]

[Music]

Mary's in Colorado. Hi, Mary. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Thank you, Mr. Ramsey.

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Um, so I have a whole life policy and

I've been paying on it for the last 5 years. Um, it's got a cash value around

$35,000 currently, but I pay $792

a month. Um, I was looking to see about

cancelling that and cashing it out. The

only problem is the reason I ended up with the whole life policy was I had um

insurance, life insurance through my employer. Um, the employer did um a

relocation. I left the company and I had

it converted to a whole life due to medical cancer diagnosis previously. So

I couldn't qualify for any term life at the time. >> Are you single? >> Um no married. >> Oh okay. All right. And what is your income?

>> Um my income is 50,000 per year. My

husband is 150.

>> Okay. And how old are you too?

44. >> Okay. All right. And um

do you guys have any nest egg built? Any 401ks or anything like that?

>> Yeah, we have um 1.5 in retirement. Uh

500,000 liquid investments and then our

home is paid off 1.5.

>> Okay. So, if you had no life insurance

and died, your husband can probably struggle through

given that he's got given that he's got two or three million and $150,000 income.

>> Yeah, we originally got it because the kids were really young at the time, but now 5 years later and they're >> Well, you're self My point is you are self-insured. The purpose of life insurance is to replace lost income in the event someone is dependent upon your income. No one's dependent upon your income.

If you die, your husband's got $3 million and $150,000 income. Did I miss something?

>> No, but he I mean I guess if that happened um I was previously staying at

home, so he would then want to, you know, maybe make adjustments in his income, maybe not work, take care of the kids until they're grown.

>> Yeah. But he's got $2 million,

>> correct? Yeah. I think it'd be okay.

We're only 44, so we still have to >> I wasn't saying he was going to quit forever, and I wasn't saying we're going to drain the account, but my point is that your little whole life insurance policy is irrelevant financially, mathematically. Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> So, don't get don't get keep getting screwed by these people. Then cancel this thing.

>> Cancel it. And then >> take the $800 and build wealth with it.

>> You don't need term insurance. You don't need insurance.

If he loses your $50,000 income,

mathematically, >> he's okay.

>> I'm sure he'll cry, but mathematically he's okay.

>> Yeah. We would rather take that $792

a month and invest it in our >> Yeah. >> in our stock. >> Yeah. Absolutely. You'll make a whole lot more money.

>> If you had been doing it for the time you've been doing this, you'd have a whole lot more than 35,000. Agreed.

Agreed. And well, at the time we didn't have this um you know, we didn't have

that net worth.

>> I know. But >> over the last five years, we've paid off our house and you know, done others.

>> Yeah. You've done a really really good job, Mary. You guys are in great shape.

You don't need this policy.

>> Okay. >> That's what I'm saying. You understand why I'm saying that?

>> Yeah. because we're selfinsuring with our investments now and >> kind of things have changed in terms of um >> Yeah. And so we we have no need for >> the need for it. >> Just cancel it and put the $35,000 in a good investment and put the $800 a month into a good investment and quit getting screwed by these people. >> It's wonderful. It's a wonderful thing to get rid of these people.

>> I got nothing to add. I mean, you just have to realize the math on this and go, "Wait, >> so here's the thing. When you're 30 years old and you have no money and a bunch of debt. >> Yeah.

>> And you have three little kids, you need term life insurance to to cover the loss of your income because your family's dependent upon your income to eat. But fast forward 20 years and you're 53 years old and you have $2 million in your 401k and your house is paid for and the kids are grown and gone.

>> Yeah. And so the no one needs life insurance their whole life. Hello.

That's why they call it whole life. You know why they call it whole life? Because they want a commission from you their whole life. >> Yeah. >> That's why they call it whole life. Not cuz you need it for your whole life. You if if you need life insurance your whole life, it's cuz you did a crummy job with money.

Cuz you got none when you're old. You got a big pile of debt and no money saved. no investments when you're old because you didn't do a good job with money and then you will need life insurance to bury you and that's about it. But but you know the purpose of life

insurance is to cover you cover your family while you can't as soon as you can quit buying it life whether whether

it's term life or whole life but certainly whole life. >> This product is just nuts. 792 bucks a month. >> Yeah. And and $35,000 is all yield. I

mean it's just horrible.

>> Terrible. Just can you imagine what would Yeah. Anyway, yes, yes, yes. You You did good, Mary. And then cancel the policy.

Dalton in Detroit, Michigan. Hey, Dalton. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, I'm in an interesting situation cuz mathematically this shouldn't work and historically this shouldn't work. So, I have a home. I've got about $190,000 equity. Me and my wife were looking at find buying a second home as a rental unit. So I go and to get a home equity line of credit, which just doesn't make any sense to me, but the bank will give it to us at a 5.1% interest versus

getting a mortgage on the second home.

It would be a 6.25%.

So it typically your your helocks or

your home equity line of credits are going to be greater interest.

Not necessarily.

>> Not not over investment property because investment property is not as is more risk for the bank than your personal residence is for the bank.

>> Gotcha. >> When they got your personal residence, they got you by the neck.

>> Yeah. That was my question is if I use a home equity line of credit and then something happens to the rental home, I don't want to lose my primary residence.

>> Versus if you mortgage, >> you will. And I wouldn't do that.

>> An LLC, you can only lose that property.

No, they can sue you for the deficit.

You're personally LLC's can't sign for a mortgage. You can put the property in an LLC's name, but you're still liable for the stupid mortgage. And if the house doesn't sell for enough at foreclosure to cover the mortgage, they're going to sue you for the deficit 100% of the time.

>> So, they'll still come take your home.

So overall, you know, that's the reasoning for these interest rates, which is, I guess, why you called, but you're going to get something more than you called for, and that is don't do this deal.

You don't have the money to buy a rental, and you shouldn't buy one.

>> So, the home we're looking at is about 75. Like, there's three options. And we have about 90,000 cash. It's in Detroit

and the area that's being revitalized.

Wait, >> I'm sorry. you have 90,000 in cash and the h and the home is 75,

>> right? But it's in the revitalation area of Detroit and so typically it's been

appreciating the area. >> I know. Do you have to spend money on it after you buy it?

>> Uh I'd have to spend about 15 to 20.

>> Okay. So why won't you just pay cash for it?

>> Because that is our like that's our nest

egg for >> Oh, because of the risk. repairs to Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're trying to ignore the fact there's risk by borrowing money and instead you're adding risk by borrowing money.

>> That's true. >> This is a form of financial denial.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, buddy.

Yeah. You're trying to hide this from yourself and act like it didn't happen.

Please don't buy this house. You're I can't stop him. He's going to do it. Forget it.

Heat.

[Music]

Heat. [Music]

Ry's in Missouri. Hi, Randy. How are you?

>> Oh, I'm absolutely peachy. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Brandy, what's up?

>> Um, I am trying to find the way with as

much grace and kindness and love as possible to get my mother-in-law on her

feet and out of the camper in our backyard.

>> Wow.

>> Cousin Eddie's in the backyard.

>> And it's your mother-in-law. Wow.

>> How long has she been there? Yes.

>> Three years >> in a van down by the river. Oh my gosh.

>> Wow. So, how did this how did this come about?

>> Um, well, we moved here from North Dakota uh in 201.

>> We did the same thing. Spent three months in a camper on my mom's property, but we're on top of employment and housing right away. And we're in a home in 3 months. We purchased our first home when we've got five kids that we did it with too, by the way. Um, >> so wait a minute. You spent time on her property? >> No, my mom. My >> Oh, your mom. Okay.

>> My mom. Yeah. >> And a camper. >> And Yes. Yep.

>> With five kids. >> And Yes. But we're at my mom's place.

She had them in the house half the time. They've got 20 acres. Plenty of room to run around, play in the pond. >> And And so you were there for how long?

>> 3 months. >> Okay. And then you bought a place of your own. And how did your mother-in-law end up on your place?

>> So, she waited to follow us down because it's uh was a single mom only child situation with my husband and her.

>> Mhm. >> And she was about a year and a half after we did it. She was like, "Oh, I think I'll do that sounds like a good idea. It worked really well for you." She came down was in the camper.

Here she is. And I don't know how to broach the conversation at this point.

>> Well, it's not with her. That's with your husband.

>> Yeah, I've I've had that with him as well. Um and he he struggles there.

>> He's the problem, not her. She's the symptom.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He has a hard time telling his mom, "Hey, >> I love you, but it's time to Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Shocking. There's been some >> So, basically, this lady didn't really even ask permission to move on the property. She just kind of told y'all she was doing it." >> No, no, no. Well, it was a conversation, but we expected her to be quicker about it and do similar to what we did.

>> Did you have an agreement that she would be quicker about it?

>> No. I mean, to be completely fair on our end of things, no, you just said that.

>> You want to come down, put the camper back there, that's okay. And that was the whole discussion.

>> Yep. >> And no one's ever correct her. So, she actually she actually doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

>> Uh, I mean, I I have I lost my mind on

her once. I said some not so nice things. So, I'm trying to go about it more politely this time. >> Yeah. How long ago was that?

>> Uh, year and a half. Oh, no, no, no, wait. No, that wasn't a year and a half.

I did that. No, it was a year and a half ago. >> And your husband couldn't have been thrilled with that either. Yeah.

>> No, cuz he was there when I started it and he walked away and put his hands off and >> So, now you're a year and a half removed from You lost your mind on her. Number one, she didn't move. Number two, your husband didn't force the issue. And number three, you're more pissy now than you were then.

>> Actually, I'm less pissy.

>> Um. >> Wow. >> Wow. I would That's pretty heavy on the pissy category, but yeah. All right. So, the uh on the on the pissy spectrum, but the uh uh >> how old is she?

>> 63. >> Oh. And she has no money.

>> Yeah. >> Nope. >> Okay. So, what makes you think she can move and into Why do you think she can move into a sustainable situation when she has no money?

>> She's working kind of. I think I mean I

know she works part-time cleaning houses and that's that's part of my issue is so

I work in a middle school. I'm a paraprofessional. Um and over the summer I'm home all summer and I was kind of tracking like how often are you leaving?

What are you doing? And she's got

cleaning jobs that she does, but it's not very much. I think max 20 hours a week. >> Yeah.

>> And I don't know how to brooach with like I don't know how to say it lovingly cuz I don't want I want attention to be gone. >> You're you're on the you're way up on the pesy pissy spectrum.

>> So you can't say anything loving. No, I am not. The problem is yes, you are.

There's nothing loving going to come out of your mouth. >> So um you and besides that, it's not your job. It's your wimpy husband's job.

you enjoy. See, you enjoyed that too much. >> You can't do it >> because it won't work if you do it. No, there is nothing you can say or do that's going to work. The only thing that's gonna work if you want her to move is for him to have a conversation that says, "Mom, I'm gonna help you get a place and you're gonna have to get your hours up and um by by the time

Christmas gets here, you're going to be hanging uh your stockings in another place or whatever it is. I don't care what the date is, but he needs to sit down with his mom. He needs to have a conversation. We were not planning to do this forever. Um, and we need to look at

a timeline where you I'll help you get things going and uh let's figure out an apartment and let's get the camper sold or let's find you a little piece of ground and let's get your hours up so you have a sustainable life. She's not asking you all for money, is she?

>> No. Um, and I've which one of my suggestions to him was I think that we should ask her for rent.

>> No. And you don't want her to stay.

>> No. Don't ask people for rent that will pay it.

>> Okay. Okay, fair enough. My my thing was after x amount of time of asking for rent saying, "Okay, here's a lump sum.

Not it for >> you just wanted something that felt righteous in this whole deal." And so you don't want >> I'm not I'm not going to help you with that at all. I'm just going to be practical and look that your husband has to handle this and he has to sit down and have a personal quiet conversation with his mom. And if he doesn't have a backbone, he can run down to all Walmart and pick one up on aisle three and sit down and go, "Mom, uh, we got to get you a thing that's a better life for you than a trailer in my backyard.

Now, let's figure out where we can get you a place and let's figure out how many hours a month you got to work to get that done and I'll help you with your budget and even if he, you know, and I'll help you get the trailer sold so you got some money to move and so on." But you do not want >> the budget. >> I'm sorry.

She knows what she's doing with everything. >> She will if your husband sits down and says, "Mom, if you don't do this, you have to leave anyway." >> She has asked us for help and recommendations on things like what do I do with my car? And then when we give her legitimate recommendations, like slaps them all down. I have come up with lists of low-inccome and senior housing, different apartments, and said, "Hey, here's some good options. Hey, here's some good options for this. Here's some good options." >> You haven't heard everything I said.

>> I have. You he said my husband >> you came up with all these options. You

are the wicked witch of the west in her eyes. She does not want anything to do with any suggestion that comes out of your mouth. You need to quit. Stop. You need to stop doing this. You're no help.

You're a problem. You're not a help.

Your husband, however, needs to take the list that you came up with and go sit with his mother without you around. You don't even need to be in the county when he does this.

like four counties over at happy hour

while he handles his mom. You cannot fix

his She ain't listening to you. She had listened to you in a decade. I can promise you. She's had it with you like you've had it with her. This is not You have no grounds for persuasion with this woman. She does not think you have her best interest at heart. You know why?

Cuz you don't. >> No. No. Not at all.

>> So, we don't think you're a bad person. We just hear a person who's exhausted.

>> You're over it. You have none of those left to give. >> Trying to fix this. >> All right. Yeah. >> The only way you're going to fix this is install a backbone in your husband so baby boy deals with his mommy.

>> Yeah. >> That's what's going to have to happen.

>> It's the only thing you can do. And then stand back and watch and hopefully he'll wander over there and get it done.

Probably not at the speed you would have. >> Yeah. >> But that's your only shot, Brandy. You can't come up with any more solutions.

This a marriage problem. You and your hubs got to get together because you're a couple cocktails away from a Jerry Springer episode

and and I you know none of us are above it but I think you were on your last nerve and I get it. >> It's funny though. >> It's hilarious. >> Yeah. Goodness gracious. Yeah. Hey, by

the way, that's a good recipe for everybody regardless of how pissy you are, okay? or how far up the pissy spectrum you are is how about you let

you the the do not fix the in-laws. Let

the blood relative of the in-laws do the fixing and you stand back with suggestions way in the distance. Yeah.

>> And don't let them even think the suggestion came from you. That's always a good idea.

[Music]

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[Applause] Heat. Heat.

Our

[Music]

scripture of the day, Romans 13:1, let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. PJ O said,

"Giving money and power to the government is like giving whiskey and cars to teenage boys."

True statement. Yes, it is. If you're buying or selling your home, it's a big deal. You will want an expert. Oh, yeah.

Rates are coming down. It looks like, boys and girls, you're going to want somebody in your corner if you're going to list that house or sell that house that is an expert in real estate. Not someone got their license 3 weeks ago and is your aunt Sally. Bad idea. Bad

idea. Yeah, Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust. Make your home a blessing, not a burden. You can compare agent profiles, interview them, choose the right one to work with among several that we have vetted for you. Find a local Ramsey

trusted real estate pro for free at

ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the show notes.

Kevin's in California. Hi Kevin, how are you? >> Hi. How are you doing? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, yeah, I had a question. I'm um I got

divorced a few years ago. I'm kind of uh my my spouse used to handle the finances, so I'm kind of a late bloomer financially. Uh I'm going to be uh I got about a year to go at my work before I'm eligible to retire and get a pension.

And um basically, I would be making the same money with combination of the pension and my social security as I am making now. >> How old are you? Uh, I'm 63.

>> Okay. So, you're going to retire at 64.

>> Yeah, I was hoping to. I mean, I might still do something else, you know, but >> What do you make? >> I was hoping I make about 66,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what are you going to do with the rest of your life?

>> Um, well, I have Gee, I didn't think of that.

I would like to, you know, spend time with my my kids and and, you know, do something. I mean, I I definitely want to work or do something positive and um

just also be able to pay my bills. Um I

I do have a house. Uh I owe $418,000 on

it. It's worth about a million. I have a uh $60,000 helock and a $10,000 credit cards. And my question is if when I

retire, do you think it's okay if I pay off the uh helock and the credit cards with money from my IRA and 457 plan?

>> How much is in there?

>> Uh combined. Uh let's see. Well, let's

see. I have uh 136,000 in the 457 and

56,000 in a Vanguard IRA.

>> So, you only have $200,000.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Um,

I would maybe want to work a couple more years and and build that nest egg a little larger. It's a little scary, small. >> Um, yeah. >> And uh, yeah, definitely. And I think during that time, you need to pay off the helock. And during that time, you need to pay off the credit card. Cut off the credit card tonight. >> U, but I would get on a written budget with a set goal of how much nest egg I could build in two years and be debtree because you've got another problem here.

You've got a $418,000 mortgage. And that

is not something you want to carry into 90 years old. We need to have a plan also to get that mortgage paid down and off. It could be a 5-year plan or a six-year plan, eight-year plan or whatever. But you've got to develop some way to get rid of that mortgage because that thing's going to destabilize your retirement.

>> Yeah, I I do have hopes of putting in a

junior ADU in my bonus room. Uh my

brother's a contractor and he was going to do that for me. I would just have to pay for the materials, which we estimate would be about $10,000.

>> What about selling the house and buying a $600,000 paid for house?

>> Um, that's a thought.

>> Yeah. And then you'd be debtree going into retirement. >> Yeah. >> Um, I think I might go that direction rather than trying to look for a roommate. I don't really want to retire with a roommate. That just Oh, gross.

>> That's how we started our lives in college. I don't want to end them that way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I agree. I agree.

Oh man. Yeah. I I think you've got to think the math part through a little more. Um and that's probably going to lead you to work a couple more years and pile up your nest egg, clear the debts, and then say, "Okay, when I retire, I'm going to sell the house. I'm going to move near the kids." Maybe you're not near them now and into a $600,000 paid

for property or whatever your equity is that you can get out of the house. But if you can go into retirement with three or 400,000 and a paid for house, that's

a whole different sense of solid ground than you've got with a $418,000 mortgage and a $200,000

nest egg. >> Yeah. And I including that math, Dave's right, I would extend uh the amount of time working, but I'd also begin thinking about what does that next chapter look like? because you said you still wanted to do something and that's very normal. But I would be looking at what would be really enjoyable work that I could do after retiring from day job one and still make some decent money for the sole purposes of continuing to contribute to your retirement. >> Yep. Casey's in Boisee, Idaho. Hi Casey,

how are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm well. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I have a question for you. So, my

husband lives in Canada and I am here in

the States. I am planning on moving there in the next few months. I'm trying to get a current job um transfer with my company into a similar position so I can have an income when I move there.

Thankfully, we're in a position where he can support us if not and we've laid it all out worst case scenario where we can afford everything we want and still have $4,000 at the end of each month to put into savings. But what we're trying to decide to do right now is between renting and buying a home. Um, so that's

just kind of where we're at. >> I would rent for one year.

>> Rent for one year. Okay.

>> Get get everything settled and stable and learn how to be married.

>> Okay. Okay. That's helpful. Um, and then Yeah. And I have my house in Idaho, too.

And so we're planning on on renting that out and probably hold on to that. sell it even >> use that money to buy your house in a year.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it. That's helpful.

Okay. Perfect.

>> See how See how all this feels very clean.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that's was that was kind of like my thoughts on it and we've gone back and forth on on everything on like should we buy, should we rent, and we've, you know, played it all out and we're just like up in the air. Even a conversation we had 30 minutes ago.

>> I think the uh how old are you two?

Um, I'm 32 and he's 30.

>> Both first marriages?

>> Yes, both first marriages. >> Okay. It takes a year

to get to know each other well enough to figure out which house to buy wisely.

>> Okay. >> It takes a We always laugh and say it takes a year to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

>> Yeah. >> Right. But that that may not be the case. But I mean, that's a joke. But the point being, you will you will know stuff about each other and have insight into this relationship one year later that you do not have today.

>> Okay. Okay. That's very helpful. Okay.

That's something >> it'll cause you to pick a better house and a different house.

>> Absolutely. >> than you would pick today. And so, um, there's actually a biblical standard for that for those of you that are people of the book. Um in in in the Old Testament

when the kings went out to war, if if a person had been married, they were not allowed to go to war in the first year.

>> They had to stay home and and be a husband. They wouldn't they wouldn't let a manlyw go to war. And uh take takes a year. Takes a year. So um it's good stuff. Fun fun. Good for you. Sounds like a good exciting exciting adventure you've gone into. And it all sounds positive and good and upbeat. That's fun stuff. Fun stuff. But if you can um

because if you buy a house with your boyfriend, which is who you are, who you are right after you got married versus your h your

husband of a year, it's a different conversation, >> right? >> I mean, 20 minutes after you're married, it's a boyfriend. >> Yeah. You got to figure out how what we're bringing into this thing. The other thing we didn't really hit on is we caution people about being long-distance uh landlords, and now you're talking about in another country.

Yeah. So that having a house in Idaho while you're living in Canada just creates a a bit of an onion there that could unravel in a not so fun way.

>> Yeah. And it just puts more pressure on a brand new marriage. >> That's what I meant by cleanliness. It's just it's just crisp and clean. I like it. >> It's very >> I just like things simple. That that's the people that build wealth. They keep things clean, very focused, very simple.

It's not everything's not disorganized and chaotic and bifurcated and everything else. There we go. Good show, Ken. Well done. >> Thank you, sir. That puts us our Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 110. Money Is A Symptom Of The Chaos You Haven’t Faced | November 25, 2025


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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your [music] life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour [music] with Dr. John Deloney and we are answering your questions about life, money, career, relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call at88255225. [music]

All right. First up in Vancouver, we have Sarah on the line. Hi Sarah.

>> Hi. >> Hi. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, I've been married for 46 years and uh my husband is does not contribute financially to the household finances and he's also not healthy. And I recently found out that he's been having an affair probably for about 30 years.

>> Oh my god. Which has been able to go on because he's had a cell phone for a long

time and he worked shift work which made it really convenient to sneak around.

>> Good. So, I'm wondering, is it worth divorcing at this point in time or do I just wait until he dies because he's not taking care of himself healthwise?

>> Holy smokes.

>> Gosh, Sarah. Okay, so when you say he was having an affair for 30 years, was it with the same woman or it's been off and on multiple?

>> So, he's he's been running >> Well, I believe there's been others, but I believe there's been one very long term. >> Wow. >> So, he's doing shift work, but he's not contributing. So, does his money go to him and then you take care of the house?

>> Yes.

>> I mean, you've been >> He did pay for the mortgage on the house and I paid for everything else. But then once the mortgage was paid for, which has been more than 20 years ago, >> he's quit paying for anything.

>> Let me let me reframe this a little bit.

You've been divorced for 30 years.

>> Y'all just have been living in the same house.

>> Yep. >> Yeah. And I guess

with all due respect, I can't I can't give you that answer >> because I can't carry the weight for you of what you have to do next.

>> You get what I'm saying? Like it's gonna it's such a huge call. You have to make that call.

>> Yeah. >> But Rachel and I can sit with you and tell you that you're not crazy.

>> But you you've been feeling this for three decades though, right?

I thought there was something going on a long time ago and when I confronted him he he just said no we're friends and then of course again because of the shift work and self cell phones you know

they're able to sneak around.

>> When did you find all this out Sarah?

>> Uh when I came home from work um a year more than a year ago I came home from work and I found him and his girlfriend in our backyard. >> Wow. All right. So, here here's the part that um nobody will tell you about finding out you're being cheated on. And and by the way, you've been cheated on financially. You've been cheated on romantically. Like >> your whole marriage has been based in deception. >> One of the things that nobody ever talks about is that scary, terrifying realization

that you don't trust you either

because part of you knew something wasn't right.

And so what I can tell you >> I have no proof. >> I know. I know. But there's that intuition. There's that something is off with this person that I pledged my life to. And over time it's like, man, I

think I'm crazy. And he confirms it, right? Yeah. You're crazy. You don't know. And well, that's your money.

That's your grocery. Like, and it just you slowly go along with it and all of a sudden you find yourself three decades removed from that voice inside your chest. Right? And so what I would tell you is the the the the way I can help

right here is for the first time to

actually sit down and be honest with you about what you know.

And that's scary to do because you either have to choose, well, this is my life and I'm just going to sit here on the pile of rubble that was the marriage I thought I had or I'm going to be about

excavating this thing and building something new and in this in your case by yourself. But there's a reality to that. You get what I'm saying? >> And do you do you want this marriage to be healed, Sarah? Like if he came to you and said, "I want to do the work and I wanna I want to repair this." Would you want that or are you pretty much out?

>> I'm out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which >> And he's been out. >> No one to blame you. Yeah. So from a from the financial part of this, Sarah, um yeah, I would be keeping everything separate. And even if you wanted repair, I would still say keep it separate until there's a level of trust and healing within the marriage because the money's the symptom, right? You guys um it's

>> never will be because he's not healthy enough to to do anything.

>> Yeah. So, is he not working anymore?

>> No, he's retired.

>> Okay. >> So, so why now? This hap like this all came to light a year ago confirming what you've known for years. Why now?

Um, good question.

I guess because I feel stuck.

>> What does that mean?

>> Do I leave? Do I stay?

Do I walk away from half of everything I've invested in? Like when I say invested in, I mean like doing a lot of

the work and then walking away from whatever pension he has and >> not being able to, you know, receive any of those benefits after all these decades. >> Mhm. >> Are you going to or are you sure that he's not leaving them to his mistress of 30 years?

>> Well, I saw his will recently and it has not it has not been changed.

>> Okay.

I guess >> I do think there's a bank account that she might be accessing, but I have no proof that either. >> Okay. Maybe for the first time begin to trust yourself.

>> Okay. >> And it it's worth asking questions.

And the other question you have to ask yourself is, are you going to be able to sleep at night? If you leave him and he dies next month, are you going to carry

that with you?

No, >> that's not a reason to stay. You're like, "No, nope." [laughter] Like, that's not a reason to stay >> because I I've dealt with some of this stuff. >> Yeah. >> And I've made decisions already, but it's that last final piece about staying or leaving. >> Yeah. I I think anybody in in our position, in Rachel's position, that would um tell you, "Yes, you need to go

do this," um is taking a really powerful

and important decision away from you. And we're not going to do that.

We can call it out and I'll and both of us will confirm. >> But I think you know Sarah, >> yeah, this is unhealthy. This is you've already made your choice. Um, as as my

boss Dave Ramsey always says, when your spirit leaves, let your body leave, too.

>> That's a good one. >> But, and I think this is this this is this is why I'm hesitant just to say, "Yeah, you need to you need to run because it's easy for me to say that." But that comes with very real financial implications, living arrangement implications. Yeah.

>> Health like it comes at a cost that you're going to have to bear regardless of what you do. >> And so I can tell you, you're not crazy.

>> You've been cheated on multiple times for a long, long time and dragged behind this marriage.

I want you to reestablish yourself as somebody you can trust. And what I mean by that is, do you trust yourself not to

squash that inner voice anymore? Do you trust yourself to write things down on a piece of paper and say, "Here's the reality with which I live in." And do you trust yourself to go get the professionals and friends and spiritual adviserss next to you in this next season regardless of what you do if you choose to stay or if you choose to go? It's just a heavy path. >> Yeah.

And not doing it alone. To your point, having people around you to help wade through some of these decisions >> is such a gift. [music] So >> yeah, I'm heartbroken for you >> Sarah. We're so sorry.

[music]

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Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

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[music]

Up next, we have Shawn in Fresno, [music] California. Hi, Sean. Welcome to the show.

>> Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> All right. So, uh, my wife and I spent the last couple years completely exhausting our emergency funds. We've paid about $20,000 in federal taxes over

the last two years in in unforeseen tax

bill, federal tax bills because my wife's uh paychecks did not have any federal taxes taken out by the HR department. Y >> even after we had talked to them about it, they missed it again >> and um we missed it too. So >> Okay. Yeah, I was going to say because you you would know I mean when you get your paycheck to know this is what I made. >> Exactly. >> But you didn't like a couple months.

Yeah, there was a couple months that went by where they were taking it out and then it stopped for some reason or it changed. >> Their HR department kind of I don't know it and it was on us. So >> yeah, sure. That's bizarre. Yeah, >> we also never heard of that happen. >> That's frustrating.

>> It was wild and yes, absolutely frustrating. We've also so we live out in the country >> and so that incurs some country costs.

So this year has been the year where it hasn't been enjoyable to live out in the country. Our solar's gone out. Our wells needed fixed. Our cars have needed about $8,000 of repairs over the last two years as well. So anyway, we have spent about $40,000 of our emergency fund over the last two years and and has ended up where I have a loan of about $7,000 left

>> against my 403b.

>> Okay. We are also still $100,000 uh

about oh $95,000 worth of debt uh in

both cars as well as student loans.

>> Um and so we had we had started our

marriage off about nine years ago hardcore and Ramsey and then we got lazy >> and so we're trying to get back on track. >> Um and so I'm very thankful we had an emergency fund and it used it served its purpose but we're trying to get back on track. Um, and it just feels like we

cannot get back. Uh, we keep exhausting

our emergency fund >> and we just keep getting shelled. Um, so I was just calling I need need some wiser wisdom than uh I have.

>> Yeah. How much you guys make a year?

>> Um, together about 185.

>> Okay. Is that before tax?

>> That is before tax. >> Or before the taxes that weren't paid until [laughter] later?

>> No. Okay. I got you. I got you. Um, >> I think on a monthly basis we bringing in um about 12,000

post tax. >> Okay. Okay. Perfect. And out of the 95,000 of debt and you said student loans and cars, how much break those down for me. What how much is the student loans and how much are the cars?

>> 50 is in cars.

>> Uh 51 is in cars and uh the rest is in

student loans. >> Okay. the cars. Two different cars.

>> Two different cars. >> What are the What are the loans on those? >> We own >> So, one is 36 and the other one is 15.

>> Okay.

>> Um the So, we I I have a third car. We

have a third car. I have a truck that's completely paid for cash, but I also commute for work. And so, getting 10 miles a gallon was killing me. I was spending $600, $700 a month in gas.

>> How far is your work? >> So, I actually got an Yeah. to go to work. Um, so I got an electric car. I

took out a loan on that. So that's the 15,000 on an electric car. Um, but I

charge for free at work. So my gas money

>> Yeah. But then you got you got How much is your car payment?

>> 350 bucks a month.

>> Okay. >> You just Yeah.

>> So Okay. So yeah, some decisions I feel

like need to be made. I where you guys are living considering how much it just cost you solar, the well, I mean all of

it. Are all of those pretty sustainable

going forward that you foresee or are they still like we're probably have to fix that again?

>> Um I I think we're good for now for the next few years, but um I mean those costs or those different things just pop up randomly. >> Um and which they would for any homeowner even if you're not in the country. I'm just trying to figure out Sean, you know, there's a little bit of this like we just want to be able to do everything we want. We want to live where we want to live and so that means we have to drive so far to work which means we have to get an electric like >> there's a a reality >> to life and sometimes you have to pick and choose to make it make sense, if you will.

>> And I'm not saying you'll have to like move by any means, but I'm saying having these thoughts that you know you guys are kind of used to doing a little bit what you want. I mean to a degree. I mean, there's a little bit of like, yeah, we're going to just kind of keep mo moving. So, >> everything you do going forward has to be at a 180°ree difference.

Like, what you would normally do, I would stop and be like, okay, is this really the wisest decision right now. Um, >> or you have to you have to live on on a on a principle of or let me let me put it this way.

M >> cuz I had a long commute in an old banged up truck that I made for 5 years >> and that [clears throat] putting gas in it was expensive. But my wife and I had a a anchor into concrete commitment. We

don't borrow money on depreciating assets especially. I would on a mortgage but not not on a not on a car. And so that was never even in the cards. and we [snorts] would curse the gas bill every month, but we're not going to go buy

another car under the guise uh like we're just we're not going to rob Peter to pay Paul. Right.

>> Right. And that's kind of where I'm feeling like I Yeah. on I guess it makes sense like I've made it make sense.

>> There you go. >> I'm saving this money on gas.

>> Right. You're it's justification is what it is. >> I want a car loan. I don't want a car loan. And the like I have my truck and [clears throat] I love having a truck cuz I do use it as a truck. I don't work on the farm for the farm, but it's nice to have it's another tool in a tool belt, right? And it's like a convenience thing like my truck. I don't know.

>> Yeah. And what John's saying, and I think what you have to get to before we even get to the baby steps of the $1,000 and you pay off the debt, is there has to be a value system conversation in your household, Sean. There is that there is a principle that we do not we do not spend more than what we make. If we can't pay cash for this, we can't afford it.

Regardless, it fixing the well, whatever it is, we are not going to borrow money. So, what does that mean? If that is like a hard line in the sand, what happens is other options come up.

but options that you're able to actually have where when debt is is an immediate answer because it just fixes the urgency of the situation, then you then you wake up, you're like, "Oh my gosh, look at all the payments we have and this is how we've gotten here." So, what what the no debt policy does is it forces you to be creative to look at other options because there are always other options.

>> Yeah. They come fix your well. I have a well out in the country and they come fix it and it cost eight grand or whatever and you say, "Hey, I can give you four right now and then next 30 days cycle I'm going to give you I'm going to give you the the other four when when the work is complete >> and we're not going out to eat. We're doing nothing because we have $4,000 we got to save up this month and I may have to work extra to get that bill." But but in but in three weeks we're going to figure it out.

>> But we have water, right? Yeah. So, like it's that kind of and it sounds extreme from how you probably making decisions, but it's the way you have to do it. So, yeah.

So, if I were you guys, Sean, I would I would sit down. Is your wife pretty on board?

>> 100%. >> Okay. Yeah. So, for you guys, we're going to if you stay on the line before, don't hang up. So, um when we get done with the call, Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you every dollar for a year. And I I want you guys to sit down and do a budget. do the every dollar budget because what it's going to expose is how much spending is happening without you even realizing it.

This $12,000 where it's going. And so what you're going to see and I want you guys to cut everything but food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance, like the things that you have to have everything else, Target runs, out to eat, I mean

literally subscriptions. I'm not kidding. Just say if we did nothing but

what we have to have to survive, how much would be left? And then you guys got to look at that number and say, "Okay, there's that number per month." And I don't know what it is, 6,000, whatever it is. And if we did this for x

amount of months, how quickly could we pay this debt off? Now, what if we sold the $36,000 car for 32,000? Maybe we had

to take out a loan because it's underwater for a little bit. Okay. Well, let's make let's do that math. That 6,000.

Play it out. Play it out and say, "Well, we don't want to do that. That seems too extreme." Okay. Maybe it's 4,000.

Whatever it is, you guys have to run out scenarios of your reality. But what I would push you to do is to do this in a short amount of time because you guys make great money. And I know you're in California and all the taxes and everything, but you know, there there's something to be said about doing a really strict plan and you and your wife saying, "We're doing this for a period [music] of time." And it may be a year, it may be two years, and it may be you working extra, she finds some extra income, but getting out of this debt for you guys, I think, is going to be a massive win.

But you have to do it so intentionally and so sacrificially. And y'all haven't felt that in a while. So, it's going to be uncomfortable.

So, hang on the line. Christian's going to pick up. And we're rooting for y'all. I mean, you can do it. You guys are smart people. You got this.

[music]

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[music]

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsy Show. Um, up

next we have [music] James in Dallas.

Hi, James.

>> James, are you there? Hi. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Hey, uh, so, um, my, uh, wife and I are

on Baby Step 2. Um, so we're working on

paying down all of our debt other than the mortgage. Um, we've been, you know,

we're on a plan. Uh, so we're on a budget. We're Christians. And, uh, you know, I got to be honest, one of the things that we've really struggled with over the years is, um, uh, I'm I don't

know. I guess I'm newer in my faith, maybe 3, four years in. And, uh, we've never been great tithers. Um, but now that you know I'm getting one of the reasons I wanted to get out of debt is because there's convicted about, you know, God tells us not to carry debt.

Um, and so my question is, should while

we're just really trying to attack all these debts, um, should we be tithing or

should we just be laser focused on nothing but essentials and paying down the debt?

Yeah, it's a great question and I feel like one that we we get a lot because I think people are really motivated to do whatever goal they're in, whether it's getting out of debt or saving the emergency fund. Um, but the way we kind

of approach money, the way I see money is it's very holistic and it's very much

a picture of who we are as people.

There's something about our character, what we believe, our value system at which then money is then handled, right?

So people that you know don't care about debt or whatever or like just want to >> have an urgent you know get whatever they want in the moment debt's right there you know whatever no worries but if if you have a value system and which probably what you are feeling from a spiritual element even a emotional psychological element of carrying debt it's very heavy and you feel that and you're like yep that's why God says no because when you owe when you when you owe someone something it changes your life it changes the reason you go to work it changes so much so you want to be free of that and so I would put giving in that same light James, um, from we could go the spiritual side or even the non-spiritual side, but for me it's, you know, the giving side.

I don't want it ever to be legalistic because I don't think that was the heart of God. I think the heart of God is when we talk when he talks about how to give, how to sacrifice.

the selfless side of the spectrum. And

we live in a world that is so selfish, right? And I think there's something to be said when we use our money as a tool, as a reflection of who we are and our character and our value system. Um,

there's something holistically good about that. And so for me, that's giving. So yes, is it a commandment? You know, is there scripture around it?

Absolutely. And as a Christian, like you said, but that can that can naturally kind of lean in a legalistic sense. And giving is like the one area of money that I'm like, I don't want you to be legalistic. I think you miss the heart of God in that. And and I'm definitely not on the prosperity side that if you give, you know, there's gonna be a brand new BMW sitting in your driveway. You know, I don't think that's true either.

Um, but there's something about living a selfless life and knowing the ownership

of our money is gods and we're just the managers. We believe that as Christians.

And when you actually physically live that out, it changes who you are. It changes your view about money. It changes how tightly wound and controlled you are by it. It releases so much. And that's what really giving does. not only helps what you're giving to obviously but who we are as people handling money.

It's just a release that I think is really um really impactful to us as

people if that makes sense. So that's a long way to say yes. I would be tithing and giving regardless of where you are financially. And I write in my book know yourself know your money about you know give a little until you can give a lot right so for some people again we teach 10% at Ramsey if you do the every dollar budget literally at the top the very first category is giving and it's 10% is set there.

>> Yeah. No that makes sense. It's a it's a heart issue. Uh and wanting to Yeah, that's that's the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is you should give what uh um you feel led to uh in in some regard.

>> Well, and and whether you're a Christian or not, I think as a culture, we could

we could all use a reclamation of an

understanding that money is a spiritual issue and work is a spiritual issue and your relationship with your wife is a spiritual issue. If you're a person of if you're a Christian then it that it it goes with that lens on right but these things are all bigger than us and I think culturally we've reduced it into what can I get for me and I like my

personal belief is that is was us sitting at the top of the mountain and that was the slide off the hill right and there's something powerful about saying reminding yourself every month or every two weeks when you get paid this is not my money >> and more importantly I am not the number at the on this paycheck. I'm a person who fill in the blank. I'm a person who gives. I'm a person who is generous. I'm the person who sees that exhausted exhausted waitress and I overtip her or

I overtip him because that's who I am is I keep my eyes open for others, right?

It makes it a I I keep using the word spiritual not to mean Christian, but it is a it's an ethos with which you carry yourself in the world. And so again, like Rachel said, if if y'all can't if you don't have groceries, right, there's something about being sacrificial that might not be this percentage, but it there is something powerful about starting every check with this part is for others. You

get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, totally. >> And I I I'm with Rachel. I will transform how you move throughout the world. >> Yeah. And I think too the money journey that everyone's on, which is more of a marathon than a sprint. This is all not, you know, you don't just, you know, do things with money for two years and you're fine the rest of your life. It is an ongoing daily decision of what you choose to do. And as you earn more and

as you guys get out of debt, James, and as you guys invest and you really do start to build wealth, because that's mathematically what's going to start to happen. Um, we always say, Dave always says it, but it's so true. You know, money is a magnifying glass. It makes you more of what you already are.

And if you can create habits now when you don't feel like you guys have a lot or you have this big goal that is so noble and so great but you still are doing things that are changing who you are.

I mean I think there's something really beautiful to say that that of like man you know we we could get out of debt you know I mean honestly what two or three months faster maybe if we didn't give you know you could you it's but at the end of the day the change that happens within you guys as you are giving and you're sacrificing >> is worth maybe that two to three months of being in debt longer because it's changing who you are that's going to carry you through this entire journey of money.

>> Sure. I want y'all to go away this weekend and y'all are in baby steps, too. So, don't go spend a jillion dollars. But, um, after Thanksgiving, if y'all have a chance to get away with just two of you, maybe it's an hour, maybe it's three hours or whatever, go for a w walk, go for a hike, sit in front of the fire, whatever. Come up with five to 10 we are statements. So,

let's pretend your last name is Smith.

The Smiths are people who.

and let those values frame your action

steps, not the other way around. Because so many of us live when I get X, Y, or Z, then I'll become. And what you find is that's not how the world works. But

we, the Smiths are people who are generous. Period. Well, that's going to frame everything. The Smiths are people who value our relationship with God.

That's going to frame it. The Smiths are people who always invite people over to their house. When you have millions of dollars in the bank, that just means your table will be way bigger.

>> You get what I'm saying? >> That makes a lot of sense. >> But if you try to go through life plan

first and identity later, that's a recipe for this year I'm going to lose 40 pounds and whatever, you're never going to stick to that. If you wake up um January 1 of 2026 and say, "This year I'm going to be a person who is a good steward of his body." Well, that's going to frame how you sleep, how you take days off, how hard you exercise, how you exercise when you're tired, because I'm a guy who takes care of his body.

>> What was the book about? H >> was James Clear. >> James Clear. That's right.

I was going to say there's something about that identity that he talked about. Yes. >> Yeah. Most people try to go into life change with habits first.

I'm going to wake up every day 45 minutes and always you run out of gas on that. But if you start with I'm a person who or we are a family who then you have people over when you're tired. You have you give money when you don't feel like you've got enough that month and you're like you know what we can do without um ice cream or we can do without tipping or we can do without it just changes who you are.

>> [music]

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[music]

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show.

>> Thank you. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I am basically a college student. I am currently going to community college.

Um, did not go with the four-year because it was just too much.

>> Um, so right now my situation, I'm about

halfway done. I definitely did not apply myself to scholarships like I should have and I took a I took a semester break just to work and just to kind of, you know, absorb and try to reach out for resources. So, I'll be going to school for an extra year, but I did find a lot of resources, a lot of scholarships. I talked to a lot of people.

Um, I'm currently about $12,000 in debt. And then obviously, if I were to continue, I have about 27 more credits. We're talking about $200 of credit.

should I pay cash? Because I'm currently working um part-time.

>> Should I pay cash? I have the money to pay for a semester now. Should I pay cash for the semester and don't worry about it? Um, or should I kind of I I

know you guys hate this term, but live a little. Um, [laughter] >> we don't hate that term.

>> I know. I know. >> Have you met Rachel Cruz? She lives a lot. >> We love to to live in the right order

financially, though. So, that's the only caveat. Um, so I mean, yeah, if you have

the cash to pay for the semester 100% that's what I would do, you know, and if you didn't, then I would tell you to pause like you have in the past and start to just work your way through. It'll take you longer, but at least you're doing it cash flowing it. Um, okay. >> So, no, I would be um >> No, I Yeah, I I would definitely be putting that money and I think you have a lot of life to live and and you're going to live better.

>> Yes. And even more wonderfully, you know, once you like have a job and have an income and no debt and you're like, "Oh, great. I get to go on like really awesome stuff." Now, again, it doesn't mean you do nothing. You can still en enjoy life.

>> I mean, like my my brother always say like live simple. I mean, he like, you know, we're all into kayaking. We love kayaking. I live in the country.

We love kayaking on the river. We all own kayaks, you know. So we, you know, in the, you know, in the summertime, we all love to go kayaking. I'm huge into bowling.

I love bowling. I already have all my equipment. So like going out doing stuff like that. Maybe going out to the beach during like a random weekend, two-day trip.

>> Yeah. >> Um, that's kind of like what I mean by like live a little. >> How old are you?

>> Okay. All the things you just said are

either quasi free or especially in your situation, you've already bought all your gear as is free. That's number one.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you can always just go run out into the water or you can take your kayak and go on the water or you can go throw the big heavy ball at the pins whenever you want minus lane fees. Okay, so that's already solved.

The other thing is it sounds like you're not fighting that reality. You're fighting an ethos.

>> Okay. >> You're fighting this idea that other people have it better than you do.

And let me >> I don't feel jealous in that way, but I I definitely like, okay, >> it's it's not it's not the actual things that are happening. It's this older brother who's like, "Bro, you need to be and you you started this call by apologizing twice, >> okay?" >> With kind of like your head down as though you've already lost something.

And dude, I'm telling you, you're not even at the starting line of the race yet, which is awesome.

>> Yeah. If you will invest in one person

and that's you >> for the next 5 to 10 years, you will

have no idea what quote unquote living a

little looks like. Like to Rachel's point, >> okay? >> If you pay cash and get out of school and go put your nose to like I

you should have more than a part-time job right now is what I'm saying.

You should have a full-time job at >> college. I >> I know, dude. But I had a full-time job and two kids and I got a PhD at night and on weekends. You can do it.

>> Okay. So, the counselor is telling me at college you should only work a certain amount a week. That's kind of BS in a sense. >> I I'm not going to I'm not going to put that on to the counselor. I'm telling you, >> John, blame the counselor. >> Yes. It's [laughter] It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Okay. So, here's the deal.

You're in community college, work full-time, >> get another part-time job, and get done with your school. And there's always Saturday mornings, Sunday evenings, you can go knock out the stuff.

>> You're right. >> Now, what what is your brother doing professionally? >> No, actually, I might have I might have uh >> You said he lives simple.

>> Yes, he does. >> I think Yeah, he's chill.

>> He has he followed He followed your guys' program. He actually introduced me to the Dave Ramsey program. Um he has everything paid off except for his house. And what do I mean by what I was telling you earlier? So, he's into kayaking. He already bought a kayak previously. He loves going hiking. So he already has all of his hiking gear.

That's the stuff he he has the most fun by spending the less.

So he's like a good model in that way. >> Okay. So he's a good model in that way. My bad. Okay. >> Yes. You're good. You're good. >> How old How much older is he than you?

>> Uh 27. So he's seven years old.

>> Okay. So it's very common that people are graduating high school, graduating college, and they want to move into the house the same size as their parents house that they just moved out of.

>> Yeah. >> They want to drive the car that their mom and dad drove them around to school in. Mhm.

>> And that's unrealistic expectations. So your brother has a seven-year head start on you where he lived very frugally,

found love in going out in nature, very inexpensive activities on the whole. Now I'm in the middle of hunting season and I figured out a way to make that very obnoxiously expensive, right? But he's doing it the right way and he's just got almost a decade head start on you.

>> Yeah. >> So put your head down, work really hard.

And I bet he would be a great one to be able to relate to you though to say, "Yeah, you're don't need that stuff." I mean, I bet like, you know, his uh his

story would be >> I've been kayaking with people who have fancy kayaks, fancy stuff, and I've got the rented one that's $15 and it's like it's uncomfortable. It's annoying. >> Is a kayak, >> you know, it's not for bucks.

>> Yeah, exactly. Right. >> It's great. >> But but but listen, if you will >> Yeah. >> write a letter to 50year-old you.

>> Okay. It's a letter of gratitude for here's

the things I'm going to do for the next six to seven years with my head down working my butt off >> so that 50-year-old you has the life that you want to live. 40-y old 50 may be too long. 40-year-old you. 35y old you.

But dude, I want you to put some money in the bank. Don't take debt off the table. I'm a guy who never borrows money. Period. Establish that at 20.

>> I drive a 1990 uh Dodge truck. There you

go. Hey, is it the 12,000 of debt student loans? Is that what that is?

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I've that was So, when my first half of college, I I signed up for FASA, which is a student loan. >> And they were like basically >> they'll basically say, "Hey, we'll give you $500 bucks for the semester for books. We'll give you $500 here and there. You know, we'll give you all this money, but the catch is you got to pay like 8% interest at once you graduate.

The day you graduate, they start charging >> months. I know it's terrible. I can get out of it, but I would pay everything cash. And that's I I really want to because I don't want to be >> I think it's that.

So, I think you have a couple of goals tactically is I want you to do a written budget. I want you to pretend that you do have two jobs like what John said. What if you had the income you have coming in and an extra job? How much money will be there?

How much money do you need to save per month to make sure you cash flow the next se starting in August? Right.

>> Yes. So, how much do you need to save between now and August to make sure you cash flow the fall semester or summer classes, whenever you're going to do it.

And then from there, you're going to be able to see, okay, perfect. That's how much I need to save. That's priority.

How much is food? How much is gas? How much is my rent? Like, go ahead and list out all your expenses. And then get to the bottom and say, "Okay, how much is left?" And and to John's point, everything you just talked about, whether it's bowling or kayaking, it's not going to cost a ton. But if you had, I don't know, I'm just gonna guess an extra hundred bucks a month or something to be able to enjoy to be able to go do

some of these things, then that's going to feel great. So, I feel like there's a part of me that says you could probably do both. I don't think it has to be this extreme case of all or nothing, but you have to make sure it's at least in priority. You want to make sure that the school is taken care of because I don't want you going deeper than this 12,000.

And then when you graduate, yes, those bills start coming and that's when you're going to start attacking those. But I would not worry about the past [music] student loans until you're out of school. My number one focus would be to get through the rest of the school without taking on any more loans. And then anything extra you can have fun with, but making sure that that is covered first and foremost.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney and we are answering your questions.

[music] All right, we have Mike in Ann Arbor. Hi Mike. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Yes. So, I've got a I think a rather unique situation. >> Okay. >> But my my sister um so I'm one of three

children. I'm the middle child. My older sister is going through divorce, >> which is terrible situation, of course.

>> She's got three kids. Her eldest I think is about three years away from starting college. >> Okay. >> And um previously like my sister, all

three of her kids were attending private private schools. Mhm. >> Um her and her husband driving luxury vehicles, fancy vacations, living extremely well, >> and no judgment there. That's fantastic, happy for them. But appears from an outsider that they had a very high burn rate. Recently, we've discovered um as

kind of the discovery process going through figuring out how the divorce is going to play out that they have under $50,000 in savings and that includes retirement accounts. That's that's >> Oh, wow. Okay. So, my sister is

expecting to buy her husband out of their current home >> and her dental practice and she needs $800,000 to do that.

>> Now, >> she doesn't have expecting to do this.

[laughter] >> Great question. So, >> she had she had reached out to me um and it turns out she had reached out initially to my parents and they had agreed to provide her with 400,000.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Do they have that money?

>> They they do in their retirement. They're they're retired, but >> but it's it's their nest egg. >> Are they multi multi million? >> Yeah. How much money do they have? Your parents. >> It's a great question. I I don't know the number, but >> Okay. Did it feel like that's a that's a significant part of their retirement? Like a fourth or a third or is it like Oh, no. That's >> 400. 400 they wouldn't miss.

>> Okay. Okay. >> They'd be dang, Gina.

>> It's great. >> I would I'd miss it a lot.

>> A lot would >> definitely. And so my sister then reached out to me. um and asked if my husband and I had an extra 400,000 she could borrow [laughter] and and we're we're pretty good with money. Um so we wouldn't have 400,000 sitting >> getting destroyed by um >> by inflation.

So I mean I I told her that, you know, without selling one of our properties, we >> we wouldn't be able to get her to 400,000, but you know, we'd still be willing to help. >> And then she called me back and told me, "Don't worry about it.

arrangements. >> Oh, no. They're going to give her the full 800. >> Full 800. So, they claim that she's

overleveraged on debt and she can't get a loan from a bank. She's got a mortgage and >> So, we're we're going to let her go almost a million dollars in debt to us.

Awesome. Great plan. >> Right. Well, I that's I don't even know.

Is it going to be a loan or is it going to be a gift? That's what I'm Okay.

Okay. But, you know, my parents have this parental guilt. They feel that she's a victim of the situation. She trusted her husband to manage finances.

This is where I I disagree a bit on the point. >> We're with you, Mike. >> Yeah, we're with you. >> It's It's trust but verify at this point.

You're you're an adult. >> Yep. >> Um and then they also want assurances that in the event that she were to get back to together with her soon to be ex-husband, you know, they would want all of this money back immediately, >> right? All the strings attached.

All the strings attached. >> Don't don't. Yeah. All this is a horrible.

So what what can we do to help? Mike, >> I totally totally understand. Yeah. So from my my perspective, and first of all, I want to know if I'm crazy, but my perspective is my my parents have worked hard and lived frugally their whole lives.

They've provided us with fantastic childhoods. They paid for our college and I want them to, you know, enjoy their retirement and spend their money on what brings them joy. >> Well, >> yeah, but but you can't control that, right? Vote in.

That's what they're choosing to do.

I gave it to them because I also happen to be the executive of their will.

>> Nice. >> Okay, that's fair. >> And um and we have similar financial behaviors. I mean, we're in we're in similar situations financially.

>> All right. But here here's the here's the brass tax. Let's say 100% and Rachel

and I take these calls, so it does happen that your sister was lied to,

manipulated, and just got hit by a by a

steamroller >> with this divorce. the financial position. She had no idea. She thought everything was different. And bam. Okay.

There is that mess. And in my world, we say not by her hand, but in her lap. She didn't cause this and boom, here it is.

>> Mhm. >> That doesn't give license to avoid

reality moving forward.

And that what does that mean? That means she can't afford the house she lives in.

She can't afford to buy a dental practice as much as she wants to own one.

It it it's it's a because I got screwed,

I'm now owed X, Y, or Z. And that's how our country is in almost $40 trillion

worth of debt.

>> That's how student loan debt is almost $2 trillion. I >> credit card debt at an alltime high. Yeah. >> I didn't get this, so I deserve to go to the college I want to. I deserve to have this. I deserve to have this program or that. >> And and her world blew up. And it sounds

like her world before it blew up, she never was told no either. Right. Right.

She never has had to to rational face reality. Yeah. Of, oh, there's not enough money here and my kids can't go to the school I want them to go to. I there's not enough money to buy a car that I really want to buy, so I'm going have to choose a different one.

You know, it sounds like her conditioning for years and years and years has been, I kind of get what I want and we're going to use debt for it because this that's exactly what the savings show. They have no money saved. They've put nothing away. they've spent everything or more.

things to me is pretty obvious. I understand why she does cuz she doesn't have another way of thinking. >> Well, and we all want our kids to go to the best schools on the planet. We all want fancy cars, big house. We all want that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but and then your parents to a degree enabling that by

continuing to just, you know, fund a little bit of her not facing reality. What >> a little bit million dollar [laughter] for here.

>> Here's the way to have this conversation with your dad. It's not about money.

It's a because he's going to say, "I have it. It's my money. I can do what I want." And he's right on all counts. >> And he can. Yeah. >> He is guaranteeing by his participation in this in your sister's pain. Not just sitting with her in the pain and saying, "This is awful." He's participating in guaranteeing that there will be a there will be a rift in their relationship forever. And after him and your mom pass, that rift will get passed to you guys.

his other kids

guaranteed because when he gives her $800,000 and she shows up in a new car,

his first instinct is going to be why did she pay me back or why where'd she get that money to buy that car? >> Yeah, that that was supposed to go to the house and >> that was supposed to go to this and what about that? And and then when this guy comes back a year later, which happens a lot, and realizes his life's awful and wants her back and sees her thriving practice and she's going to be like, "Oh, well, it is the father of our kids." then >> and in a wonderful way to blow things up.

You know, the marriage is if that's the case and the marriage is redeemed in a healthy way.

>> There's an $800,000 price tag.

>> Now there's a [laughter] million dollar.

You know what I mean? That gets that gets dragged in the middle of that into a beautiful redemption story. So I'm like >> all the way around it's not it's not wise. But Mike, what sucks about your position is you have no control. You really don't. Like he he's gonna they're gonna do what they're going to do and you can say everything you want to say.

say it in the way you think he's going to hear all the things and at the end of the day they're going to choose and then you're going to have to you're going to have to deal with yourself in that decision whether it is pain and sadness and feeling like that's unfair to you and your other sibling. I mean whatever it is that's going to be yours to carry from then on out. >> Is is it normal for her to call you and ask for money?

>> I'm sorry. Is it like her calling you and asking for money? That just after asking mom and dad and then asking you and your wife, that feels like a level of desperation of someone who's scared that their life is unraveling.

>> And sometimes the greatest gift is to let it all the way unravel and sit with somebody >> in the ash.

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>> [music] >> Well, it's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing our special giving edition of the Ramsay Show. It's one of our favorite shows that we do all year. And we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season. So, maybe you've tipped um a waiter or waitress

like a ton and you have an awesome story around that. Maybe you've bought someone Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe you bought someone a car. Whatever it looks like, but outrageous generosity. We want to hear from you. Or maybe you were on the receiving end of a very generous gift.

And then those are always obviously is wonderful. So we want to hear from you again. Whether you have been the giver or have been given to, we want to hear.

So go to ramseyolutions.comask

and put giving in the subject line. And we do this um gosh, we do it once a year, always around Christmas time, it's one of the most popular shows that we do. We it always gets so many listens because it's just um it's kind of like faith in humanity. You see the good that's being done. >> And can I tell you now that you've just read this um this this like promo like we're doing this? >> Yeah. >> It reminds me like back in 2007 or 2008,

I was a part of this. It was like a men's group that met on Monday mornings and there was um a guy there. He was a general counsel. name was Slate and he was an attorney.

He was one of the greatest men I've ever met. Every Monday morning he would go around the table and ask us, "What's one nice thing you all did for your wives last week?" >> A >> the number of times I'm a new married guy. Sunday night I did a nice thing so [laughter] that I could say something Monday morning.

Sunday nights I still look around. Is there can I go fill my wife's up car up with gas? Can I help with laundry before school? Whatever.

And so >> if you haven't done anything outrageously generous, go do it just so you can call in. >> Yeah, that's a great >> but it's about but it's about the practice and you start you will feel how good it feels and you'll be more likely to do it again. So, if you haven't done something outrageously generous, let this be the call to go do a thing and then write in and tell us. And then while you're doing that thing, keep your eyes open.

Bring your kids with you. Let them be involved with it. And it will transform obviously somebody else's life, but it will transform your life and hopefully inspire you to give more throughout the year. >> I love it.

So good. Yep. So, that show is coming up December 18th. So, again, start sending in your stories because we do want to celebrate um living like no one else.

The later you get to live and give like no one else. All right, let's go to Houston. And we have CJ on the line.

>> How you doing, Miss Rachel?

>> We are doing great. You got another Houston uh >> Hone >> Houston. Um, what were you? A resident of Houston, I guess. I don't know. Next to me. >> Oh my gosh. You're not a resident of Houston. [laughter] You're from there.

You know what I'm saying, CJ? You You get it? >> From Houston. >> Yeah, I get it. >> CJ, how can we help?

>> Hi, I'm currently 60K in debt. Um, I'm

currently 22 years old. Um, I'm a

college student and I work full-time as well. 30K, about 25K of it is a cosign.

This was before I started listening to the show. Um, I co-signed a car for my mom that she have total, she totaled out her previous car and she wasn't able to get a car. So, >> I'm the only one of her children that has a great credit score and a very well

financially stable in their eyes, but I feel like I'm drowning.

>> Did Is she has she stopped paying on that 25,000? Are you picking that up?

>> No, no, no. She's paying on it. I'm making sure she's paying on it every month. I'm I'm currently >> But you're on the You're on the hook for it is what you're saying still, which Yep. >> Yeah, I get that. >> It makes me uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable. Totally.

>> Man, you should feel uncomfortable. >> What's the rest of the 35,000? Is it student loans? >> I have 10K in student loans.

>> Okay. >> And I'm going to cash flow the rest of my time. I'm currently in community college. I have like a semester left.

>> I'm going to be going to uh either UTSA or another college for cyber security.

>> Okay. Good for you. And then what's the other 25,000?

Um uh 20 of it is my car

>> and then um the other

I might be miss wrong but I have like 7K in credit card debt that I'm currently paying on. That's my baby step one.

>> CJ, what kind of car do you are you driving around? >> I have a 2021 Honda Accord.

>> Mhm. >> Not for long.

>> If you [laughter] you sold it private party. >> A great car. >> I know it is. But listen, I rolled I drove all over Houston. I'm a 6'2 200lb

guy. I drove all over Houston in a 88 Tel EZ hatchback and moved up to a

Corolla. Was it great? No.

>> I'm 67. I'm 67. I I like the car. The

Honda is the only car.

>> You [laughter] man, >> I'm making it fit. >> Okay, CJ, though, we can we can find a we can find a bigger car for less than 20. We do. We do have to we Six. Oh, no.

>> You can't you can't fit in a Honda.

That's what my kids do. 67. 67.

>> It go push it all the way back the last setting in the car. >> You got to take the back seat out of that thing. All right. Good for you. >> Okay. Uh, how much money are you making, CJ? >> I'm making 21.55. And we getting a raise

in about a month. Um, >> how much are you bringing home a month? What's What's hitting your bank account each month?

about 3,500 on the low end, but I have

opportunities to work. Like right now it's slow, but next year when the year starts, we're going to have plenty of overtime. >> Great. Okay. >> And I currently have 5,000 in my savings. And I know we're supposed to have a thousand, but me and my family have went through a lot. So >> nervous. Yeah. It freaks you out a little bit. >> Yeah. More than a little bit. I had I

currently >> am talking to a therapist. I have anxiety and depression. So >> the anxiety comes from >> um stability and when I don't feel stable. It just my world rocks.

>> Yeah. >> Trust me, dude. If you will make this a mad house priority to get this debt out of your life, I've been right where you are, dude. Right there. >> Oh, trust me. I'm on the way to just get

rid of that $4,000

safety. I got you. But listen, on the other side of paying all this debt off, >> you're going to sleep like you have never slept in your life. I promise. Cuz I've walked those same shoes.

>> I know, but I just can't get rid of the safety blanket of that four.

>> No, no, no. I I I'm with you on that.

That's I you just saying the whole get

out of debt thing, >> the whole idea, it's going to it's going to it's going to have you're going to have peace in the way that you probably have >> you working overtime, you going to school, you doing all this stuff. It is worth it is what I'm telling you. >> So, what I would do, CJ, if I were you, cuz you're right on that cusp of that $20,000 car, okay, from a mathematical standpoint, regardless of height and all the things. So, >> just you I mean, unless you're working overtime, can you afford this car?

Because our rule of thumb is if you can't pay the car off in 12 to 18 months and or it's more than 50% of your annual take-home pay, you have too much car.

And you're you're right there, CJ. So, I mean, I just want you to just just look just look, run some numbers and just say, "Okay, what if I did sell at private party?" Cuz it probably is holding its value pretty well. It's a great car. >> So, you may be able to act, I mean, depending on when you bought and how all of it, you may be one of those rare cases that you actually may, you know, be able to sell it for a little bit more than what you owe or you may be a little underwater.

And then I want you to look around, CJ. >> A little underwater. I did a little bit of numbers.

>> Okay, perfect. Is that is that private sale or is that trade in? >> That's private sale. [laughter] >> Okay.

So, >> trade in was about the same thing, but I think I could get a little bit more for it. >> Yeah. Okay. So, again, I want you to just run the numbers that if you if you were underwater 2000, I want you to look around and just do some research on a $5,000 car.

Okay? Just pretend. And maybe you find another older Honda Accord and you're like, "Okay, great.

which is going to fast forward this whole debt payoff so much faster so that you don't have to work overtime much longer, right? So again, it's a give and take situation. That car is right on the cusp of of being able to keep it and paying it off. It's just going to be a longer get out of debt process. So what

I want you to do, so priority number one is I want you to stay current on all of your payments. Okay? Stay current on everything. The second priority since you're in school is I want you to make sure you're cash flowing that last semester.

So save up enough to make sure that that is covered. Okay. [music] Once that's done, >> I'm planning on cash flowing with the rest of school. I don't >> Yes.

That's great. Yep. So is making sure that that is true because I don't want you go in any more debt. And then I want you to start working off paying out that $7,000 in credit card debt.

So if you have multiple cards, start with the smallest. Even if it's an $800 bill on one of the cards, whatever it is, cut everything up and start working your way through the debt snowball, which is paying the smallest debt off first.

And then your student loans won't hit till after you graduate. And then that car is going to be your second big one.

So that's going to decide, hey, do I want to keep it? Is it worth working all this extra? And you'll get to decide that. But CJ, we're so proud of you.

You're changing completely your family tree, and we are here for you. [music]

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[music]

Up next we have Lee in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hi Lee, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. Well, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Uh, I'm 65, retired, and I have about

1.8 million in a traditional Roth IRA

and have about 400,000 in a uh Roth.

>> As I look ahead to the required minimum dispersements, >> Yep. This >> kind of uh a lot.

>> Yeah. Not making you feel great. Yeah.

[laughter] So, the last couple years I've moved

$100,000 each year from the traditional to the Roth. >> Good. >> Would I be better off to keep doing that that way or should I just take the pain say maybe move a million and be done with the pain or just ped along at 100,000? >> Um, what other money do you have?

>> Yeah. Do you have the cash to do that

>> to pay the taxes? >> To pay the taxes on would have to come out of the out of the account behind it.

Yeah. I don't have >> Okay. So, you'd be paying Yeah. So, you don't have the >> cash approximately $100,000 in the bank, you know, but Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Um, if you don't have the

cash to be paying the taxes, I would not take money out of the account just to pay the taxes. Um, >> if you can do it, but you Yeah. Do you have any income coming in besides your investments?

>> Yeah, I just uh social security.

>> Yeah. Um, how much is that a month?

>> Social Security is about oh 2,300.

>> Okay. A month. >> And are you living off of money in the Roth or the traditional?

>> I am. I'm I'm between between uh social security and uh it's about $7,000 a

month I'm with. Yeah. Total I'm living on a month. >> Okay. Okay. Um yeah. I mean, kind of our

rule of thumb is if you don't have the cash to pay the taxes, um, and if this is all you have, if there was a lot of money that you were going to, you know, have, the great thing about a Roth is, you know, not only are you not paying taxes on the growth, but when you pass it to your children, they're not going to pay taxes either. So, it just like becomes even, you know, a bigger pass down, which is such an advantage. That's why we are such a fan of the Roth.

um is that's that's what's going to be key. And I'd hate to use your retirement investing to pay the taxes on something that's already invested, but uh how much are you having to take out every single year? How much is that?

>> The required >> Oh, they're making it gets up there in the you know 3 400,000 a year I got to take out if I live long enough.

>> Yep. Do you know how quickly that's going to be? A >> year.

Yes. >> No, you don't have to take out $300,000 a year out of your 1.8.

>> Oh, you get to be late 80s. It gets pretty high according to the form the man gave me >> of what it is with all the growth. I'm not sure. >> Yeah, I'm making right now I'm my money is making about 12 to 14%, you know, thereabouts.

>> Yeah. >> Give or take. Yeah. So, you know, I keep telling them to grow or, you know, I >> Yeah, >> I'm out over my skis on this mathematically.

Um, but that number doesn't sound right, but dude, I could be out to lunch on it. >> Yeah, I know. It's that that required It's a weird It's a weird formula when you look at it. And so, I don't I don't I Yeah, I can't do it right now.

So yeah, what I would say, Lee, is unless you had the cash to be able to pay the taxes because you had money saved elsewhere, that would be an automatic yes for me.

you know, which you're going to have to pay anyways um when they make you, you know, take it out. I would run some of those numbers and I would sit down with a smart investor pro as well um because I would want this to be the most mathematical efficient for you but usually converting to a Roth if you don't have the cash on hand um that's usually a sticking point. All right, let's go to Alex in Toronto. Hi Alex,

welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Hi. How are you guys?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> My quick question or hopefully quick question is uh can we afford to travel?

So we live in Canada. We want to go to Spain for my friend's wedding in May.

>> That's funny. >> And uh my wife and I were just wondering if we can afford it.

>> Dude, my friend got married at Arby's.

Man, your friends get married at Spain.

That's awesome.

>> Well, they live there. It's my best friend from from like >> he's international. Alex has friends all over the world, John. >> Yeah, that's true. You got you got cooler friends than me.

>> Okay, so uh Alex, where are you guys at financially?

So, um I make about 150,000 Canadian a

year. >> Okay. >> Uh we don't have any debt other than our home. We owe to in our home about 463,000.

>> Okay. How much does your wife make? Does she work? >> She doesn't work. She's a homemaker.

>> Okay. Wonderful. Um do you guys have money saved? Do you have an emergency fund? >> We have an a small emergency fund of about 9,000. Uh our expenses are about 4 to 5,000 a month.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Um, we I have a pension with my current

work that I contribute towards and my employer matches. >> Mhm. >> Um, about 20% goes towards that pension.

Then I have a uh retirement plan that came from another job that I had in the past that I took with me. There's about 100 grand there. Um.

>> Okay. >> And then there is >> Do you guys have kids, Alex?

>> We do. >> Okay. How many kids do you guys have?

Two kids, eight and six.

>> Okay. How much will this trip cost total? >> I'm total I'm expecting around 5,000.

>> Okay. Do you guys have 5,000 to spare?

You don't have a great emergency fund. So, I would want you to bump up that emergency fund to at least three months of expenses.

>> So, for the last, sorry, for the last two years, we've been saving money, putting money aside. I was investing on my own, but then realizing that my pension is pretty good, that I shouldn't be I mean, I don't know. That's up to you're the expert. So, do I continue putting towards another investment like retirement thing on the side or do I just stick with my pension that I currently have? >> Yeah. So, the the investing is a little

different in Canada, but I can tell you from here we would always say that your 15% of your income needs to go into retirement and your pension would be considered I would I would I would cut that percentage in half. So, how much what percentage is going into the pension?

So my estimate is around 20%.

>> Okay. So what I would say is that would be quote unquote 10%. So I'd be saving 5% more somewhere else.

>> Um and again the the Canadian, you know, retirement, you you'll have to look to see what's probably the better option.

Um but I would put 5% of your income into that. So, I'd have the pension at the at the 20% and then I would put 5% somewhere else because the reason we say the pension it it is included in that 15% but it's half is because it is still a great place to put your retirement but you have no control over it. And so that's what is always a little bit like eh. Um so again 5% somewhere else. But

yeah, if you guys can cash flow this um

this trip to Spain, I mean I would make it a goal to get your emergency fund up.

I would be putting some money away there. But yeah, if you guys have the ability to cash flow it, and again, cash flow and it not stress y'all out. Um,

yeah, you have no debt. I mean, you guys are saving, you're doing great. So, I would say, yeah, I' I'd be okay with it.

>> Okay. Hopefully my wife can listen to this now and then

I don't know. John, would you go?

>> Yeah. >> Sean's a little bit more not as >> Yeah. No, I would go, but um, here's where I would fall short. the moment I

deviate from a plan, right? Like if I'm

trying to accomplish an exercise goal, the the one morning I don't I don't keep my word to myself, I'm off it for the next four months.

And so the only thing giving me pause here is how low that the fact that you got kids and how low your emergency fund is and you are one kid doing one fun thing in the front yard from burning through that $9,000 in no time.

And if you do choose to go to this wedding, it can't be, >> well, we've done it once and now we can do it again and now we can go ahead and get this car. Now we can go and get this other thing. It would have to be such an anomaly and it would have to be different than I'm able to do right now.

>> Yeah. No, I totally get that. Yeah. Two, last time we traveled like that was two years ago.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, it's not a a cert like a constant thing that we do every year. And it may be a thing.

It may be a thing that like only you go and it would be cool to take your wife to Spain and then celebrate at a wedding, whatever, but we can only afford. It only makes sense for us financially for one of us to go. [music] So, those are some more variables you can think about.

There may be more security knowing, okay, we have some we have good money, you know, money saved. Okay, I can take a breath and go on this trip. But yeah, you got to figure out how to get this emergency funded and the trip. If you can do both, that's great.

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[music]

The countdown to Christmas is on and we

have a ton of great deals for you guys for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Plus,

we're dropping a special one-day sale on

Black Friday and Cyber Monday. So, we're talking about hardcover books, audiobooks, assessments, some as low as $3.99. So, don't miss out. Go to ramiesolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. All right, let's go to Ricardo in San Diego. Hey, Ricardo.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Uh, I had a question and kind of wanted to give you a little summary about my life and see if you can help me out with it. Um, I wrote it all down kind of just compacted in a quick summary for us.

>> Perfect.

All right. So, I'll start by saying I'm 28 and I'm calling from San Diego. I live in a rental home with my family, my 2-year-old son, and my soon tobe wife.

Living together is the only way to make San Diego affordable, and every rent payment gets us one step closer to actual home ownership. We all share expenses, so support each other, and we're working towards building something stable for our future.

Currently, I work two jobs Monday through Friday. I'm an HVAC, a career I

switched into after a 10th month training program because I wanted long-term stability for my family. On Fridays and Saturdays, I work in a restaurant. I used to have more hours there, but it's slow season, so I learned that I had to lean more into the

H track to grow and stay consistent financially. >> Um, I still work there in the restaurant, don't get me wrong. Um, I bring home about around 3,650

to about 4,200 a month after taxes

depending on my tips also at the restaurant job. And I follow Dave Ramsey's like baby steps. I've saved the $7,000 towards my emergency fund, budgeting, and trying to use the Every Dollar app and cutting back where I can.

I'm working on paying off a $29,000 car

loan that I just got because I needed to be mobile in order to get me around and the car I had before broke down on me and it actually got totaled and I got in an accident in it. Um, right now my

student loans are also in administrator for parents, so interest piling up on them, but I'm staying focused and attacking them with the debt snowball.

>> Yeah. Hey, get right get right to your question, brother. Get right to your question. >> Yeah. Yeah, sure. So my question is

what do I do as of right now? Even though it's tough supporting my son, my finance, my family, dealing with the high rent, juggling two jobs, managing debt, I'm trying to stay committed and every sacrifice is about giving my son security, helping my family and providing that plan teamwork.

>> Um the thing is that I recently had to go to the hospital. Uh, I have a ruptured eard drum. So, it's very hard

for me right now to see if what's going

to go next in my life because they're thinking I'm gonna need surgery.

>> So, I'm thinking I just put all this time into this career I'm trying to build and now I'm thinking, can I even go back to it because I'm going to be around loud noises and everything and high elevation.

>> Okay. Well, on that end of it, yeah, you will have to figure out is that is that feasible? I don't know what that looks like. I don't know if there's protective earw wear, you know, you can wear that helps you because if you're able to stay, I think within the industry you're, you know, that you have is great because you can only move up from there.

But is 4K sustainable, Ricardo, per month for you?

As of right now, because I have my family living under the same home, it is sustainable and it's the sacrifice I have to make because I make $20 an hour in the HVAC job and then I make 1725

plus tips in the restaurant job.

>> Okay. >> So, it's just more about getting my experience because I have no experience.

I just have >> Yeah. How quickly for the HVAC will you be able to start upping income? Have they [clears throat] Do you have Is there a income track that you can see?

>> Yeah. Yeah, there is. And uh as of right now uh when I talk to my teachers and I also talk to my bosses at work, it's between like the one to two year mark just because I have to get that experience and I have the knowledge, but I do have to get the experience. >> Okay, so Ricardo, I hate to say it, you can't afford a 30 $30,000 car.

>> Yeah, you guys you got to sell your car today. >> That's that's too high. Um yeah, so you can still find a great $10,000 car that

will not break down. Uh, we had a guy on the show last week doing a debtree scream and he's driving a $4,000 car around and he's like, "Listen, it's got 200,000 miles, but it's been great. It It's giving me no trouble." So, there's still are great cars out there that are older that will not break down like what you experience. So, um, I would first

and foremost, yeah, put that car. Have you looked at Kelly Blue Book that if you sold at private party what you would get out of it? >> So, I just recently got a car. It's the 2025 Toyota Camry.

>> Oh, man. You bought a brand new car >> and that's the 30 That's the 29,000.

>> Yeah. And I'm paying monthly on it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I would go on Kelly Blue Book and see what what how much you could sell it for.

>> And you may be underwater because it's brand new, but it won't be too much underwater if it is. So, um yeah, that

needs to be sold. >> How much is in your emergency fund?

>> Right now, it is about $7,000 and I'm trying to get it to 10. >> Well, hold on. How much do you owe on student loans? on student loans right now I owe about about 6,000. >> Okay. Pay those off today.

>> Is is it My other question would be is it feasible for me to do that? Because as of right now since I don't have my ear like I can't hear from my ear I don't know when I will go back to work.

They haven't told me. I don't know if it's going to take months like to get the surgery or to get >> Wait. Do you have to Okay. I'm I'm a I'm a little bit ignorant. Can you not go Can you not do your HVAC work with

listen hearing in one ear?

>> Uh it's it's more of the I talked to the

doctors and they said that I wouldn't be able to do it soon enough. It would take a little bit of time. So it would I'm not sure what time they're really giving me. >> Can Can you flip Can you flip over and go full-time at the restaurant?

>> I can't cuz it's slow season right now.

They just cut everybody. >> Okay. So maybe another one. >> Yeah.

You got like you don't have an alternative, brother. You got to find another one. >> Yeah. >> And I hate that for you.

I hate that with all my guts for you. And that's the reality you find yourself. >> And maybe it's the season, right? So maybe for the next six months to get you through the spring, you're working two restaurant shifts and having to hold off on the HVAC because of your ear >> or you have to go throw boxes at Walmart at night or whatever.

>> Amazon driving. That's right. Uh for holiday season, you know, they usually are picking up tons of drivers.

>> Yeah, she also works. She works two jobs. We're both hard workers. No question about that. No question about that. Yeah. Yeah. We're just trying to be strategic with the hard work to kind of figure out. >> Here's a really uncomfortable question.

You live in one of the most, if not the most expensive place in the United States to live. >> I know that for sure. >> What? What's And it's beautiful.

It's stunning. Every day is the great day is a great day. And there's a mathematical reality. You are you are working so hard and what you're doing is so honorable, but you picked a place that very few people can afford to live day in and day out, especially seeking the kind of security you're looking for that I hear in your voice.

>> What does it look like to pack up and move to Texas >> or pack up to move [laughter] to Kansas? I'm being I'm being serious because you can't you can't afford to live >> Yeah. >> how you're how you're running. It's crazy because I actually made that um I actually tried to talk to my soon tobe wife about that decision too of moving like to Arizona or Texas just because I know yeah >> since I'm in my field I am and I'll find work out there.

>> You you will. But but but here's the deal. It's less an emotional it will become a very emotional decision. Make no mistake but right now you have a math problem.

You don't have a work ethic problem. You don't have a like wanting to love and take care of your your soon to be wife and kid and all that. You don't have those problems. You have a math problem.

>> Yeah.

every month is a grind.

>> So, you know, okay, so here's what I would do, Ricardo, as you get off the phone. My if I were in your shoes, um my

goal would be to save

um $2,000 this month and next month,

however that looks. And then in January, I would be putting my car up for sale.

If you're a little underwater, I think what that's going to give you is you'll have you'll keep $1,000 in your emergency fund. And then you're gonna have $10,000 cash. You're going to use some of that money to pay the difference. Get rid of that. Use the remainder to go buy a crappy five, six,

$7,000 car. Okay? That's going to that

for me, that's step one. That's what you've got to do because this car is killing you. So, I would get that out of your life. That's going to free up that car payment [music] and then you guys can start working on building back and figuring out for medical expenses for the spring and then from there you're going to work on paying off the student loans. But that's going to be possibly putting two restaurant jobs together.

That's going to be, you know, it's it may driving.

>> Yeah, it may look like moving. I don't know what that looks like, but those would be my steps. Car [music] number one, cash flowing a new car and paying the difference in cash. That would be my number one goal. And then we have to Yeah. [music] Um figure out Yeah. the lifestyle, which is a really, really, really big decision, but it's one that long term [music] could relieve you guys a lot from the hard work that you're already doing.

Welcome back to the Ramsay [music] Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney.

You can give us a call at88255225.

All right, starting us off this hour is Cynthia in Miami. Hi Cynthia.

>> Hi, how are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help?

>> Hi. So, I'm calling to get you guys perspective. So, we have a house and we

are selling it to clear out all our debt that we've been having plus the house because when we bought the house, we didn't do it the right way. We didn't put 20% down. It was an older home and

now there's like a lot of work that needs to get done. So, if we are able to sell it, we're able to cash out and then we'll have all our debt paid for and we'll be left with 160k

around there left over. So, I just kind of wanted to see what you guys think we should do cuz we were planning on renting for a little bit. So, then when we're ready to buy, we'll buy the right way. and also just making sure we'll have money to fix things and yeah, so I

just kind of wanted to see what you guys think and also, you know, we'll use that money for investing.

>> Just kind of see what you guys think.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so two questions. One, um, for you selling this

house, because I just want to clarify, yes, 20% is ideal for a down payment, but we always say if you're a first-time home buyer, 5%'s okay. So, I do want to make sure you're not rushing to move out of this house. Is it really drowning you guys financially? Like you're like, "We we got to get out." Cuz sometimes people are like, "Well, we can just sell, wipe out our debt, and we're all okay." But sometimes that doesn't always fix the issue, you know, if you know. Yeah. Does that make sense from like a behavior standpoint?

>> Of course. Yeah. So, it does make sense.

We actually been trying to pay off a lot of debt like since we've been together for like about 5 years. And then the

thing is that if we keep the house, it'll be an additional 25K in that cuz it needs like a roof ASAP. Okay.

>> AC, water heater. And when we bought the

house, the money that we had, we fixed it inside. It was like a fixer upper kind of house. We didn't do all the major things at first. >> Okay. Gotcha. And that and the payments too much and all the all the expenses that are going to be with it, you're like, it's just too much for us to handle in our income.

>> Yes. Correct. So, we were just thinking of starting fresh now that we know what we know and we're more, you know, we're more diligent with our money. So, we're like, we'll have a clean slate and we'll >> Okay. Yeah. How much consumer debt will you guys pay off with the equity?

>> $199,424.91.

>> Oh, wow. What was that in?

>> It was in Well, the house is $153,000

and then the car, >> credit cards, all that. Where are you going to get the $160,000 in equity

>> of selling the house?

>> You only owe1 150 on it.

>> 150. Yes. >> Okay. So, you're going to sell it for 330 340 something like 345? Yeah. 340. Yeah.

>> Are you confident that someone's going to come in and buy a $340,000 house that immediately needs a roof and a hot water heater and all that other stuff? >> Yeah. It's actually Yeah, they already It's already done. They put in an offer and everything. >> Oh, the offer is in and good to go.

Okay, cool. >> Okay, great. So, good to go.

>> Well, you'll have great equity. I mean, you did well whether you're aggressively paying it off or it was just the market.

But well done that. That's great. Okay, so yep. So, you're able to pay off Yeah.

the remaining mortgage and then about that $40,000ish dollars of just consumer debt that you have and then you're going to have 160 left.

>> Um 160 left or 120 left after you pay your debt off? Uh after Oh, probably

after I believe, hold on, let me double

check. I think it'll probably be like around like 1:30 we might have left over possibly paying the consumer debt. Okay, >> I know it's like over around that. All right, I want you Rachel's going to tell you what to do with that, but I want you to make me a promise in front of >> Okay, >> all of America who listens to this show, >> okay? >> After you've paid off your consumer debt, this money goes into a high yield

savings account and you don't touch it for 90 days.

>> I will make that promise. >> You can't buy anything.

>> No new car, Cynthia.

>> No, we do not want nothing. We're actually paying our car now. So, we will have this car for a long time and we're going to take care of it. >> I know, but that money is going to burn a hole >> in your pocket.

>> Y'all have to y'all have to like >> like like I I don't know how y'all do it in your marriage. Spit shake uh contract. Y'all go outside and etch it into the driveway. >> Y'all will not touch this money because it is going to be so you're going to look up.

>> The cruise is going to look good in December in Miami. friend is going to [laughter] get remarried and want you to go to Australia. A buddy's going to have a brand new car that he just has to sell at such a great deal. Your your husband's going to want crypto.

Like, it's just going to happen. Y'all can't touch this cuz it's otherwise you're going to sell this house and you're going to find yourself right back in the same situation. I promise you, we've taken this call countless times over the over the years. >> Okay.

>> Yeah. No. Yeah, definitely. That's our goal.

Like, I don't want credit cards. I don't want none of that. Like if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

I'm a believer. >> All right. I'm trusting you. And you're going to get struck by lightning or something like that if you spend the [laughter] money. Okay.

>> No, I feel like >> you'll hear God's voice himself. Not one penny. It goes into a high yield savings account and all your all your friends are going to be like, "Oh my gosh, you can get higher rate." I know. This is a spiritual exercise for you guys. Okay.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Cool. >> So, we're not touching it till February, March. >> Yes. for per John's.

>> I think that's great. I think that's I think it's a great um I think it's a great principle to act. I think that's awesome. Okay, so Cynthia, for you guys, monthto month, when you go rent somewhere, >> if you if you factor in the new rent plus your life, how much do you guys spend a month? How much you guys need in operating expenses a month?

>> Yeah. So, that's actually something we've been working on. So, we'll make about like 4700 a month. They'll range

to 47 to five. Okay. And what we'll do

is um now we factor in the rent and

we're also like factoring our groceries.

We've been really like >> Are y'all both working, Cynthia?

>> Yeah, we both own a business together.

So we're both Yeah, we both running together. So >> how's the business going? Do you see? Is there an upward trajectory of it? Okay.

>> Yeah, it's going good >> because around you know I mean you guys are 60kish in Miami. It's not a ton.

It's an expensive area.

>> Yeah. So it it's it's good and it's

okay. We're not like in Miami. We're around that area. >> Okay. So So doable >> for you guys. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Good.

Good. >> Yes. Cuz like especially since we're cutting off all our expense like our like those bills like those credit cards. We're really just what our goal is is to pay the rent. We'll get our groceries. Pay the essential bills and then all that money will be able to >> Do youall have kids?

>> We do. We have two kids. >> Okay. Great. Okay. Okay. So, what I would do for y'all is probably more of a six-month emergency fund, which will be about 25K. So, I would earmark, you know, around 30,000 of that of your new money just for an emergency fund that you're never going to touch unless you need it. And that leaves about 100K.

>> So, I would make that my baby step 3B because you guys will have no consumer debt. You'll have a fully funded emergency fund. And then I think the next step is getting into a home. Now, you guys can start doing retirement. Do you all have like a SE or do you'all have any kind of thing within your business? Simple IRA.

>> Yeah, we actually have a Roth IRA. We've been investing too. >> Okay. For a long time, Maria. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, depending on how quickly you guys want to be back into home ownership would be if I So, I would either have

that 100,000 and then start saving on

top of that for a down payment. And then

if you're not going to buy a home within I would say probably three years, I would start investing as well 15% of my income into retirement. But if you think you could buy a house in around three years with the amount you can save, I probably would hold off retirement till I'm in the house and then fund 15% of my income into retirement. But if it's going to take longer than 3 years to buy again, I'd probably go ahead and just um

do the 15% into retirement and [music] build on top of that down payment. But those would be my next goals for you guys. So yeah, excited for you guys for this next season.

Heat. Heat.

So, buying or selling your home is a really big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

So, the medium home prices have held steady at around $424,000.

And in October, about one in five houses

saw a price cut, which means that buyers might have more room to uh negotiate this winter, which is great if you are looking to buy. Mortgage rates have dipped slightly to 5.49 in October,

giving some buyers some breathing room.

But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you are ready.

So, if you are out of debt, you have a fully funded emergency fund and a down payment for first-time home buyers at at least 5%. 20% is wonderful, um, then you

are ready to enter the market. So, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some free tools so you can buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/markets or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's go to Anthony in Texas.

Hey Anthony, welcome to the show.

>> Hello guys, how are you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. Um, so my question is more a career question than financial. Um, so I

am a apprentice for a utility company here in Texas. Um, I gross around 150,000 a year. Um, my wife also works.

She grosses around 60,000 a year. Um,

I'm on the road Monday through Friday,

usually about four hours away. Um, I've been working a lot of weekends lately. I have a kid due in uh, February. So, I'm wondering, >> Congratulations. >> Thank you for that. Um, I'm wondering, do I stay here and journey out

and then it's almost like if I journey out, what do I do next? or do I go ahead and do a career move now and work towards something else?

>> If you journey out, are you going to be able to have a more local uh gig or you

is that just a commitment to be on the road forever?

>> So, you can there is a chance to be local, but everybody else is trying to go local as well. So, it's a competition basically. So, I couldn't say a month after I journey out I'm going to be local. It could be a year. >> Well, flip that conversation around.

Let me say it this way. Every single friend of mine in Texas who's about my age is talking about the utility boom.

>> It's it's it's wild, right? You know this. They're paying you a bunch of money just as an apprentice, right?

>> Um >> Yes. >> And they're paying you to be away from any sort of life whatsoever, right?

>> Yes. >> And there's there's a premium on that, right? Um the question I would ask myself is if I bit the bullet for

another How close are you to journeyman status?

>> Uh, two more years.

>> That's a long time to be gone seven days a week.

Um, here's my question.

>> Is there a possibility that y'all are able to relocate once you get established?

Because you're you're you're looking at one of those jobs that everyone in the country is saying people need to start looking for.

>> Yes. So, I could e I could relocate.

Yes. Um, I just did buy a house here.

>> Okay. >> Um, but in two years, yes, I could relocate if I needed to.

>> Is there a way to not have to work weekend? I'm just, man, it's a tough That's tough sledding with a with a brand new baby being gone seven days a week >> for two years. >> There isn't. And there's some I just worked 18 days straight before. So, I mean, there's sometimes I work longer.

>> Yeah. What would you do if you weren't doing this? Do you know?

Um, honestly, I don't know. It's uh that's also a problem I have is I don't know what career path to go. Um, career

path kind Oh, go ahead. >> Well, is your wife going to go back to work or is it dependent? Is that dependent upon what you're making?

>> Uh, she is going to go back to work. She said she'll never quit working. So, she's going to go back to work. She's a nurse. >> Okay. So, anytime I feel backed into a

corner, either I have to do this or I have to do that, one of my personal rules of thumb is I throw a bunch of random ideas on the table just to a

prove to myself I don't have to do this or that and give myself some breathing room on and maybe another idea will emerge. Here's what I mean. Is there a possibility that y'all go and and you're doing this not for right now, but you're doing this for 10 year from now, y'all?

Okay. Is there a possibility that she took a 24-month hiatus from nursing and

she y'all put her up in the nicest hotels when you travel? Or are you out in remote desolate nowhere West Odessa where there's I mean there's nothing on top of nothing. Um that's an idea. Could she go to travel nursing and go with you for a season?

is there.

misery. You let that thing go.

>> And at the same time, >> man, working 18 days straight with a newborn is really tough. Although I will say, man, I've got buddies who got deployed right when their wives were pregnant and they missed the first. I mean, it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. But, but >> yeah. So, after the two years, >> it's tough. >> After the two years, um, the job that you'll have, is that what you want to do, Anthony? Like, do you see yourself being fulfilled in that career?

>> Honestly, um, probably not. Um, this career kind of just fell on my lap and I took it because it's a great opportunity. Um, >> everybody in this area would die for this career. >> It's just it just happened to go that way. I just don't know if I want to continue to do it. I went for local. I'm 27. >> Okay. >> What did you do before this?

>> Uh, I did insurance. I was a like a third party for insurance companies.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I would, man, I would be tempted

to explore. We can give you Ken Coleman's book um to look at the work you're wired to do. there's an assessment in the back of it, a career assessment that it's actually amazing that could even jog to John's point as you're starting to kind of think through other options could maybe, you know,

create some ideas of, oh gosh, I never thought about this or that because in a per I mean, right, in everyone's perfect world, which we're all adults and it's not always perfect, is that you're doing a job that you love and that you are

passionate about, that you're good at, and you're paid really well, right? Like that's the that's the ideal world for

37year-old Anthony, right? In 10 years.

Like that's that's what's ideal. So I want to start moving towards a path to create that. And if this is a job, even

though it pays so great and it's such a great opportunity, doesn't always mean it's great for you, but I also don't want you guys to flounder financially by any means with any of it. Do you guys have a lot of debt?

>> No. So the only debt we have is the mortgage, which is 250,000.

>> Okay. Yeah. also able to save 80,000.

>> So I have 80,000 just saved >> in a savings account >> because I knew this point was coming.

>> So good. Yeah. >> Well, and that might be another question. Instead of looking at the work, instead of looking at the passion and that kind of stuff at this stage, >> could you and your wife sit down and agree on a number?

I'm going to do this till we have 150 grand >> or till I have 125 grand. And while we're doing that, I'm going to be in my trailer or in my hotel room um on my

laptop working like mad to find other

work so that when I make this jump, I'm not making this jump into nothing, >> but I'm making this jump to something.

You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. Totally agree. Um so, and another

obstacle, and sorry if we don't have much time, but another obstacle I have is when I journey out, my pay will be significantly higher. It should be about 250,000. >> Mhm. So, I don't want to get attached to the money if I do plan to leave. See what I'm saying? >> Yeah. But you your your character as it is right now, you're not I mean, that's not how you're rolling. If if you because we also talked to people who get this first job, make 120 grand.

>> Okay. Can I push back a little bit? >> We push away. Yeah.

>> Okay. But I also don't think he need They don't need it though. Like if you if they had if y'all had a ton of debt, Anthony, and no savings, I'd be like, "Sorry, you you got to do whatever you can to get yourselves in a good position. Y'all are in an awesome position." You know what I I'm just trying to give them a framework for >> we're all going to be at peace when we cross.

>> And that might be today. Your wife may look at you and say, "Hey, we're we have enough now. We're good now." >> Yeah. >> I want you home.

>> But find that number that you're like, "This feels right once we hit this number to make a transition to maybe something different." >> And I'll tell you this, if you work for dollars, not for the life that dollars can supposedly give you, meaning if you think your pe you're going to find peace at a dollar amount, you will never catch it.

>> You and your wife get together and ask yourselves, what kind of life do we want to live? Let's reverse engineer for that. >> And hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you Ken's book.

[music]

>> [music]

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>> All right, today's question comes from Mary in Alaska. Mary writes, "My husband

and I owe the IRS over $90,000 due to

property sales. We are currently paying down that monthly. We also have $15,000

in credit card debt, car debt of 14K, and a $250,000 mortgage. We have over

$150,000, oh god, in precious metals and $150,000

in a CD. We are retired and our income

is about $7,500 a month. I want to cash

out the medals to pay off everything.

Yes. You know why? Cuz you are wise. My husband wants to keep the medals because the value is increasing right this second.

We have no retirement accounts except the CD already mentioned. My husband has been pilfering that account in order to buy more metals. Good gosh, what should we do?

>> Okay. >> I mean, this is an easy math problem.

Precious metals are a speculative commodity. They go up and then they go way, way, way down, and they stay down and they go up when people freak out.

Then they go down. Sell them. Sell them.

sell them today because you know what is going only up and more of a tighter and

tighter uh chain around your ankle is

this IRS debt. Get rid of this stuff

now. And you know what's going down in value? Your cars. While that debt stays the same, your credit card debt is going up because of interest. Just cash the stuff out. But you have a bigger issue here, Rachel. >> Yeah. I mean, you guys don't have a lot of money, Mary. >> Well, somehow they've got $7,500 a month coming in. And I don't know if that's social security. I don't know what that is. That's a pension or what?

>> So the consumer debt, the IRS debt, yes, needs to be paid completely. Um, and then I would take money once the CD matures, take that 150 out, and then the precious I mean, you guys will have $30,000 left after you pay off everything. And I would then put all of that into investments. I mean, I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and say, "Okay, aggressively, what can we do to to do this?" I would not throw it all at the mortgage right now because I would rather you have some money in in retirement um that you're slowly paying off the house.

But I'm scared you guys, Mary, that I mean, you don't you'll have $150,000 left basically.

that does worry me for you guys long term. That's not going to be enough money to retire on. And so the reality is Mary, you guys are probably going to have to go back to work in some capacity. >> Well, they're making $7,500 bucks a month. >> Yeah. They only have $150,000 saved in a $250,000 mortgage. Yeah, they may have to sell that mortgage and way downsize.

>> You may have. Yeah, you either downsize and I don't know how much you could get. I mean, I don't know what equity you have in your home. Um, that's an option.

Or, you know, for a few years, Mary, of figuring out, you know, how do we how do we make some money because you guys just don't have enough um to cover what debt

you have with your liabilities versus what you have. I mean, that's that's the math. >> But to me, the scary thing here is your last sentence. My husband's pilfering >> Yes. our last remaining dollars to buy

more precious metals. This is a recipe for a >> disaster >> crash. Yes. >> Yes. 100% agree. 100%. Okay.

>> So, you got to address the um the lack of integrity in your husband. You got to address y'all's core marriage issues cuz I guarantee this isn't the only place where he's quote unquote pilfering things. Y'all got to get got to get on the same page there and come up with a unified plan moving forward. And I know that's easier said than done.

um you wouldn't be in these other situations if y'all had been united moving [clears throat] moving together.

You know what I mean? If you just step down. So, be thinking about that long term. Um >> because I want you guys to be able Yeah.

to to be able to breathe.

>> All right, let's go to Stephanie in Chicago. Hi, Stephanie.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. Oh, how can we help today?

>> Thank you. I've been a fan for a very long time. I appreciate what you guys do. >> Well, thank you. Thanks for calling in.

>> My question is related to our uh

retirement savings. Um, so my husband and I recently bought what we hope to be our forever home. We sold our starter and our mortgage has obviously increased

as has the rate. Um, so we're wondering if it's ever okay for us to pull back

from retirement savings and just kind of

give ourselves more margin for our

increase in expenses.

>> What percentage is your mortgage payment on this forever home compared to your income? >> So, um, I it's it's close. It's about 25% of

our monthly income.

>> So, where's the rest of your money going?

So, we do have um our son does go to private, which is something that it was kind of one of the reasons that we did move neighborhood. So, it's very likely that he may be going to the local public school next school year. But, we also

have some repairs to do in this home that were a bit unexpected. Um, and we do have some goals for the future as far as um, saving for a vehicle and paying

off the home faster, which is something that has kind of been weighing on me. I was very comfortable with the mortgage that we had, but >> we're we're kind of at odds at whether we should pull back. I'm kind of more on the I think we should just keep saving where we're at and make it work. And my >> Are you doing 15%? Putting 15% away and that's too much is what you're saying.

So, we're each doing 16% not including our company match, which is pretty generous. Um Okay. And then we're we're

also maxing out our Roth IAS from our take-home pay. >> Okay. Do you know percentage-wise how much of your income is going to all of those? Because that's going to be way more than 15%.

>> Um I don't. Okay. Um if if we're

including our company match it, we're both each putting away 24% of our income. >> Okay. Yes. >> And that's not including the Roth IAS that we're doing. >> Yeah. Exact. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, you guys are probably putting too much in retirement. So what we would say is 15% of your income needs to go into retirement. How much does your company match?

>> It's 8% total.

>> 8%. Okay. So, what I would do is go up to the match and then the remaining percentage that you guys have, I would go then to the Roth, max out the Roth, and if there's any percentages left, go back to your to the 401k. Um, but I

would just I would just do 15% of your income into into retirement. Both your

401k, the 8%, not including the employers match. So, that's not 16. I don't count the employers as 16. I just count your 8% going in.

>> And then um Okay. And then the remaining

15% take to your Roth IRA. And if you

max that out, depending on what you're making, if you max it out, go back to the 401k or it may just be enough just to do the 8% and then maxing out the Roth. I'm not sure. So you guys will have to kind of do the the math on that.

But yeah, um I would cut back your retirement um to 15%.

>> Okay. So you're saying just do the 8% to match the company and then put the remainder of that into our Roth.

>> Into your Roth. Yes. But um cuz how much

are you how much are you guys making a year >> combined? It fluctuates because we both have our base salary and then commission, but I would say comfortably it's the most we've ever made. We're at about 160 17. Okay. Well then, okay. So,

so the the max on the Roth this year I think is eight.

>> Um so what I would 8,000 each. So again,

after you fund that 8%, if 7% of your

income left fills up the Roth IRA, then

just stop. You guys are good. But again, if you hit that max and you still have one or two percentages left of your income to fit hit that 15%, go back to the 401k. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. It's hard for me because I know on paper like what we what we have saved up looks good, but like my mind doesn't connect with it just never feels like enough. I I think I'd maybe worry too much about the future. So, >> what does what does enough what does enough mean?

>> You know, I wish that I knew. I think it

just boils down to the fact that we both grew up pretty poor and no one in our family had any financial literacy.

>> And I'm always like, you know, we're I feel like we have really >> How old are you guys? How old are you guys, Stephanie?

>> We're both 38. >> Okay. And how much do y'all have in retirement right now?

Between all of our IAS and 401ks, it's [music] just about 500,000. Okay. Oh, sister, you're good. >> So, what's crazy is Stephanie, if you just stop right now and don't do anything, your money will double [music] every seven years.

Okay? So, you guys are going to have millions every time, right? If you didn't do anything from now, like if even if you just stopped and [music] you're going to continue to contribute 15%. So, the remaining money that you're going to stop putting in retirement, yes, upgrade the cars if you need to and pay the house off early.

scripture today [music] comes from Isaiah 66:9.

I will not cause pain without [music] allowing something new to be born, says the Lord. Malcolm Gladwell says, "A lot

of what is most beautiful about the world arises from struggle." So good.

All right, let's go to Ryan in Minneapolis. Hi, Ryan. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are you guys doing?

>> We're doing great. How can we help today?

Um yeah, I'm just uh I had uh

a question. My um a relative just passed away and he uh by

default because my um

father passed away. Uh me and my brother are set to inherit what he has left.

>> Okay. >> Which is um a house and a few cars and

whatnot. Um, but the only problem is he

has a um IRS debt of about 120,000 and uh so

we're going to have to um >> sell the house, >> do a cash out refinance to pay for the house. >> But I'm what I'm wondering about is if

um me and my brother should sell it or

if we should hold on to it. That's what we're kind of uh at odds about right

now. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, the IRS lean's gonna How much is the house? How much is it worth? If you sold it, what would it be worth? >> Um, it's give or take 200,000 probably.

>> Yeah. Somewhere in that in that range.

Yeah. But if it was fixed up, it's worth

it's worth like easily 400,000.

Yeah. >> It would double in value if you fix it up. Yes. Okay. For sure. >> All of this is good, but the it it it

glosses over the main question here, which is, can you afford to do that?

>> Like, if somebody if somebody drove up here and said, "Hey, I got a brand new Lexus and it's awesome. It's just going to cost $100,000 and there was a $200,000 car." That'd be a great deal, but I don't have the money to go buy that thing.

>> Right. >> And I'm not I'm sure not going to take out a cash out refi with a house with leans all over it. You get what I'm saying?

Okay. >> And co-share it with a brother who I already have difference of opinion on how we're going to manage stuff moving forward. Like this is just bad decision after bad decision after bad decision.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So the smart thing, Ryan, would be to you got to sell you got to pay the IRS debt and then you guys split whatever's left in it. I mean that that's the cleanest, smartest way.

And then you take that money and then whatever you want to do with money, you know, whether you want to go and save and buy up a rental and have another second home to do whatever, you know, whatever that looks like for you, you can do that on your own terms. But yeah, sh Yeah, John's exactly right. Sharing a property with a family member is so messy.

Well, see the only the only problem is there's also more debt as far as like credit cards and so I pretty sure the estate will it's going to become insolvent. >> Okay. Yeah, you may not get anything from it and that's great. I'd rather be out and not even be near it then.

>> I would not try I I wouldn't try to make the deal work. Ryan, >> do you do you have is this an emotional attachment too?

>> Yeah, it's for sure sentimental for sure. So, dude, like >> it was a >> I'm I'm all with you on that.

What's important about this house to you?

>> Well, it was um it was the house my dad grew up in.

>> Um my grandpa and grandpa or my grandpa

basically built it.

>> Built the whole thing with his hands.

Like it it's all everything hasn't been updated since he did it in the 50s and 60s. So, >> yeah. So like your your emotional attachment to this, the sentimental value is very real. And Rachel and I don't take that lightly. That's a real pain. That's a treasure.

>> And that sentimental treasure is going

to become like a a weight around your neck, making it very hard to continue to tread water in an already chaotic time.

>> Okay. >> Do you have what what's your financial state, Ryan? Do you have money saved or consumer debt? Where where are you at?

>> No, I'm I'm fine. No debt. Um I just got

married a month ago and we're we're about uh >> Yeah, we're uh we're we're we're fine personally. >> Um you know, we have we're on track for retirement. Um >> Yeah. Do you have a lot of cash available?

>> Um not 120,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Does your new wife have any

um I know she hasn't obviously you guys are newly wed, but does she have any thoughts in this? Sometimes an outside spouse, you know, that's new to the situation who's less emotionally attached has thoughts, too. What is what is she saying?

>> Um I mean, she would she would like to for us to own a house eventually. Um

and and me as well. Uh but she doesn't

want to live there until it's fixed up, understandably. >> Yeah. Um, >> and that's going to be more money going into it. >> And everybody who thinks it's going to cost X to fix it up, the rule of thumb is double, if not triple that that amount of money that you think it's going to cost. You're going to get into a hundred-y old home and find out it needs all kind of stuff, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And like you said, if you get into this estate and you keep this asset, it they're going to come after you for I mean, it's it's just going to be it's going to be a mess financially of what you're going to have to do to get above water to be able to keep it and make it make sense. And then on top of that, let alone the repairs and everything.

>> Can I can I tell you something that I I an experience I had a few years ago.

>> So when I started working in universities, my granddad, who's one of my all-time life heroes, one of the greatest men I've ever known. He brought me into his closet and he gave me this tweed jacket cuz it looked like a professor's jacket. Had like the brown patches on the elbows and everything. It has never fit one time. It never fit.

But I carried that jacket with me everywhere, house to house to house to house. And then one day a few years ago, I was packing up to move yet again. And

I was I looked at this jacket. I thought of my granddad who'd passed away. I smiled and I put it in the Keat pile.

And then for whatever reason, I turned and I looked at that jacket and I said out loud without thinking about it. It wasn't some big aha moment, but I just said, "My granddad is not in that jacket." And then I put my hand on my chest and I said, "He's right here." And I picked up this jacket that's somebody's going to use and it's going to use it well. It will never be me. And I put it in the donate pile.

>> Oh, John. >> I did. Because >> it's a great illustration. because somebody's going to need that jacket and I'm keeping it from them by pretending to hang on to a memory that is is is

actually inside of me.

And it was sad. It was heartbreaking.

And I've got a couple of keepsakes on my desk right now at my house where I'm writing. It's it's it's right there.

But sometimes these sentimental things, they become they become bricks we carry around. And like it's not like you're calling us and saying, "Hey, my my dad stewarded his money well and his father's money well. We have a property worth $5 million and we just want to buy new cars, so we're going to sell." That's not what you're saying, man. You're saying that you got an absolute mess and there's a bunch of heartstrings

attached to it. And so, man, I honor that. But, dude, doing a bunch of unwise financial things, especially on the heels of a brand new marriage, this house is going to turn into a deep resentment. It's going to further put a put a gap between you and your brother's relationship.

It's going to begin to build a um a space between you and your new wife because you're not going to be able to buy the house you want because you're going to have all this outstanding debt on this h it's just going to cause a mess, man.

And also, dude, I get the heartbreak. It stinks.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a Well, thank you for telling that story. That's Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, and it's so hard, too, because >> when it's the right thing to do, even though it's the sad thing, that's that that sucks. >> Just because it hurts doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. >> Yep.

But though that is the wisest path, Ryan. Um >> I hate it for you >> is that and I know that >> it's heartbreaking and you know, and it and it shows too how much we talk about this a lot on this show, our emotions >> can drive so many decisions and then we look up four years later and think, what was why did I do that? Right? out of stress, out of fear, out of grief, like whatever it is.

>> Yes. >> And find himself in a >> stuck there. Yeah. Yeah. I know, Ryan.

I'm so sorry. Um, but I hope I hope that helps. [music] Even though brother, pay off all the debts and >> Yep. And you build a great great life with your new wife. All right. Well, thanks to our wonderful audience here in Nashville at Ramsey Solutions. Thanks to all you in the booth. John, thank you as well. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk [music] daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 111. Money Is Just as Emotional as It Is Mathematical | January 22, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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---

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Delony and we are answering your [music] calls. So give us a call at 1-888-825-5225.

We'll be talking about your life and your money. Starting us off this hour is

Hannah in Salt Lake City. Hi Hannah,

welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely.

How can we help today?

Hi, so I have kind of a two-part

question. Um So I got married about two and a half years ago. Um it's my second marriage.

I have a teenage daughter from my first marriage. Um but my current husband, we have a toddler, about a year and a half old.

And um he is um a welder by trade. So he

and he is very physically capable. Um

he's in his late 30s and I'm in my early 40s. Um he refuses to work.

Um I work for a school district, so it's not like I make a ton of money. Um but I make enough to cover the bills. So um the house that we live in is mine. I bought it in 2020, thankfully.

Um but again, we've been married since 2023.

Um and we put our child in daycare four

days a week. Um and he does he watches [clears throat] her um one day a week.

Which is really nice cuz child care is incredibly expensive. >> Sure. But there's um a lot of resentment on my end building up because he just absolutely What's he doing the other four days, Hannah? What's he Where is he going?

What's he doing? Um that's a good question. So um he's from a town that's

about an hour away. So he'll go back over there and he'll hang out with friends and sometimes he picks up odd jobs, I guess. Um I don't I don't really know. I ask him all the time what he's doing and he just so he's kind of has a, you know, weird ambiguous answer. Um Oh, gosh.

>> also gift him they gift him money like every year like at Christmas time. >> Who? His parents?

Yeah, his parents they'll give him like 10,000 or 20,000 dollars and that's kind of what Oh, wow. he lives off of cuz all all he has to pay for his own, you know, like gas and then you know, substances and >> So y'all are not food he wants. Okay, so So money's not combined. So he makes 10 to 20,000 from his parents once a year and then some odd jobs.

And he's in charge of a certain number of bills. You pay probably the mortgage and other things and it comes out of your salary.

Yes, I pay I pay the mortgage, all of our utilities. Um we do now, as of the last couple months, we do split the child care bills.

Um because I was, you know, frustrated that he didn't want to stay home or work and so I said that was kind of the deal is we needed >> Oh, Hannah. Do you feel like you have major marriage issues?

Yeah, no, we I feel like you do.

>> [laughter] >> I feel like you do. >> Well, because what's interesting, Hannah, always, and John can get into this, but money's usually a revealing topic on how the marriage is doing.

Usually it's not really a money issue.

It's more a reflection of what's going on in the marriage. And so when you're everything you're describing to me is it is that he doesn't hold a lot of character in who he is as a person. Not only is he not being upfront and honest with you with what he's doing on the days that he's like driving back to his old town, which kind of I don't feel good about that. Let alone not working, not wanting to participate as a married couple in the household responsibility.

Like all of that to me is a breakdown of character, which will be a breakdown in the marriage cuz that's who you're married to. So Hannah, I have a hard thing to say. Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Just for the rest of this call I don't want to hear about this this guy at all. Okay?

Okay. And this is why.

You he has no character.

He's not he's Speaking on behalf of all men, this is not a man.

Okay? He's not somebody that's taking care of their kid. He's not somebody that's taking care of their wife. He's not somebody who who has enough dignity when they look in the mirror to get up and go to work and be somebody who provides, somebody who provides more than they take.

Okay? But you can't make him do anything.

Right. And so where that leaves you with is a series of really hard choices.

And so my question for you is what are you going to do next? Because just sitting at home wanting this to be different and thinking, well, fine then you have to Venmo me for all of the iced tea you drink. Like that's not a solution, right? Yeah. He that's that's

just you trying to flick him in the ear back while he's you know what I'm saying? So it's not a solution.

The ultimate question is are you going to leave?

Or if you're not, then

if you are, that's one track. If you're going to stay, then you're saying, okay, I'm choosing to stay here. I'm choosing to if there

is good somewhere in this in this man, I'm choosing to look at that and I'm going to make peace with what I've got.

And I've got to go solve this math problem I have financially. I got to solve child care. I I got to go solve these problems.

You get what I'm saying? But sitting in the limbo just waiting for somebody else to be different, he's not going to change. Okay, let me I'm asking John this on your behalf, Hannah, cuz as you explain that, I agree. But if she So say she did part one, right? And she leaves.

Yep. Is there is there a reality though that she sits him down and says, I need X, Y, and Z to change or I'm leaving?

Yeah. Like Like is that Absolutely.

Yeah. But but that just it it if you if

you will tell me there's no way I'll I'm ever going to leave him. I've been through divorce before. I will not do that again. Okay, then that's good for you to know. That's a that's a boundary for you. So now I have to learn to live inside these castle walls that I've built for myself. If that is an option,

then yes, I think he deserves as your husband, even though he's failing every way from here to Sunday, he deserves here is a path to trust. Here is a path that you can walk that would reestablish you as my

co-creator of the life that we want to build together. So Hannah, my question to you is is option one and two on the table or are you someone that because of what you've gone through, you're like, nope, it's just going to be option two and I'll have to go from there. Do you know just like as a knee-jerk reaction?

Um well, sort of. So um and also part of why I called in, and I know this probably sounds awful, but it is something that I think about is So I have retirement through my job um through the school district, plus I have um an IRA and a 401k that I put money into. Like I'm very very financially responsible. I don't have any debt other than my mortgage.

>> Yeah. Um and he has he has a ton of debt. Like he racks up credit card debt, obviously, cuz he he doesn't work.

>> Maybe. Okay, well, that's good to know.

And then I I would challenge you to not make any of those assumptions without sitting down with an attorney.

Okay. Every state's different. Every situation's different. Um some states have like boilerplate like this is just how we do this and other states take into all sorts of other things into account. So don't make any like, well, since this is true, sit with an attorney and get those those answers.

Okay. Yeah, he's um I mean, obviously, like you I mean you guys are correct. Our marriage is not is not great because I have resentment because he refuses to provide for his family and he has resentment towards me because um there's, you know, I mean it's it's a it's a long story, but there's significant lack of intimacy in our marriage on my part. And part of that is my resentment towards him.

The other part is I almost died in childbirth and it's been a series of surgeries and medical things that have happened since then. >> My gosh. Dude, that sounds Yeah, that's a that's a lot to unpack. So I would I would probably sit down with someone.

>> Yeah, call somebody today. You can call our friends over at BetterHelp.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family.

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zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Next up, we have Francisco in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Hi Francisco, welcome to the show.

Hello, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Well, my question is cuz I'm I'm 30 years old and I have about 350 grand in

debt. Um So, yeah, but I was thinking these days of at least declaring the companies bankrupt or I don't know if myself as well, but uh but yeah, but I then um your videos came up and then I started thinking otherwise. Okay. [snorts] Um >> [sighs and gasps] >> gosh, Francisco. Hey, so how what kind of debt is the 350,000?

50,000 is on a line of credit that is to

the company, but it's personally guaranteed and about 45,000 is in credit

cards and then about 200 are on an SBA loan. Um it's

really two different loans for two different companies like 140 and

and 60,000 and the one for 60 is already in collections. They sent me a letter yesterday with um with like 20,000 in in administrative

fees and this and that and and that's why I started thinking all this and then we have four vehicles, two for the company and and two is my wife's

and I and and one is paid off for the company and and the rest we owe about 54,000.

Combined or on each?

No, on combined. >> Combined, 54,000 car. Okay.

Yes. Okay.

Um for the loans that have already gone into collection, how long has it been since you've been paying on those?

I've been paying since since COVID cuz it was a this COVID SBA loans, but um

but yeah, but I I was paying. I don't know what happened, but it entered into collection. I assume

Not paying enough or you're paying the minimum?

Yeah, I was paying the the the minimums on the on the on one of the SBA loans, the small one, but that one is already in collection.

And then the other one, I haven't paid it in over a year. Okay. And then that one is in collections as well. Is your business failing, brother?

Well, it is failing. I mean, it's I've been doing a lot of accommodations cuz it was a franchise and they take 10%.

They had me on an office um in an expensive office, whereas now

all the machines is in my garage in my house. And and yeah, all sorts of things. So,

you know, in the last year I've been fixing it to to at least um I'm saving like 8,000 a month with all the changes we've done. Okay, you're saving 8,000 within the business or after your take-home pay?

No, I in the business. Yeah.

>> business. Okay. Yeah. So, you're putting 8,000 away. How much how much will you make profit at the end of this year? If

if you keep if you keep it going, if you don't file bankruptcy, what do you project?

Um my projection is small. It would be like 50,000, 60,000. Oh gosh, what do you do?

It's a construction company. Okay. And are there multiple companies cuz when you said there was a VA loan out for one company and then I got another loan for another company, are there multiple companies or just the one? The other one is is sort of a consulting company.

A consulting company. Okay. And is that

still going? Are you still running that company or no?

Not really. We're we're stopping and it's been so slow in the last couple years that um we're yeah, we're not running it anymore. Okay.

What what do you have when I'm thinking of vehicles, I'm thinking of tools, I'm thinking of machines to liquidate? >> If you went and sold everything today,

everything, just sold it all, what would you garner? Like how much money would you have?

And one car that's paid off and and the machines and everything, I could probably sell it for maybe like 50 grand. I can probably get at least 40 grand.

Yeah. For What about the second car that you have a note on?

The other cars, I'm upside down in two of them with for about like 10,000 or so.

Okay. >> On each. Yeah.

Um okay, so you're bringing home about 60. Yeah, I mean yeah, you're this is a

this is a tough spot, Francisco. I mean, I I never want to gear someone towards bankruptcy cuz we always want to look for a solution out and the only solution I see for you on the horizon is going to be to get to do what you can with the business to liquidate, you know, take whatever what John was saying, anything that you can sell to get money back out of it. Um I would

try to negotiate. You're going to have to find the cash, but once you have some cash, if stuff goes into collections, you will be able to negotiate some of those things. I'm not sure about the VA loan and all of that, but And the SBA administrative fees, I don't know any about anything about any of that stuff. >> that whatever that looks like.

Cuz but for most most people that hold a debt that's in collections, whether this is credit card, medical, whatever it looks like, once it gets to collections, they're going to assume that you're not paying it, that you don't have the money for it, right? And you don't right now. So, what I would say, my hope would be that you can find, you know, multiple jobs, if you're married, have having your spouse work. I mean, like whatever you can do to earn some money during this time to start getting a plan to look at these look at this debt and say, okay, how can we slowly, especially with the ones in collections, how can we start negotiating some of this down?

And then the credit cards, I mean, honestly, I'd probably let those go to collections. Like I think you you don't have the money for them right now, right? So, if you look up in 12 months and those are in collections, is there a way you can settle that. So, it it would take probably good three to four years to climb out of this, uh Francisco, but but that would be the way to avoid bankruptcy.

>> You're going to have to go get two or three jobs. Your wife's going to have to get jobs. Y'all going to have to go work like crazy. Yep.

Um call Listen, I want you to call our friends at Guardian Litigation.

and they're a nationwide law firm that helps with debt settlements, with collection issues and they might be able

to give you some guidance on, okay, the SBA stuff, don't worry about this or the credit like they'll be able to give you some sort of guidance like line by line with your various creditors and who's serious and who's not and all that kind of stuff. So, check them out at guardianlit.com/ramsey um and they'll give you some support and some help there. >> Yeah, I'm so sorry. What a absolute mess. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Honolulu. Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Hello, thank you for taking my call.

>> Yes, how can we help?

Yes, it's it's a two-part question.

Um my husband and I are on baby step two and have about $8,000 debt left at 0%.

>> Okay. Um I'm I'm returning from the military in about six to eight months. I joined when I was 17. The military has been my entire adult life. We're planning to buy a home using a VA loan.

We currently have about $21,000 save in

savings and we expect to save around another 50 combined by June. Okay.

>> My first question is should we pause and stack cash for the house or should we pay off the $8,000 now to fully complete

baby step number two? Yes, that, the latter. So, go ahead and pay off the 8,000 and then I want you to have a fully funded emergency fund, Elizabeth, uh before you purchase the home because once you guys get into this home, stuff is going to start to happen and if you have no cash available to support yourself as you're a homeowner, it's going to go bad real quick, okay? So, I want you to So, you can use some of this 21,000 um you know, in order for that to

be part of your emergency fund. And maybe that is your full emergency fund. I'm not sure what your expenses are, but I would get a three to six-month emergency fund. And then the fact that you guys can save 50,000, that's amazing. So, I would get at least a 5%

down payment on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage where your payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. So, when you do all that math, um if that's enough, then yes, then that's um yep, a great a great place to start. And hey, and Elizabeth, too, I would avoid the VA loans. If you can go just get a traditional just a traditional mortgage, 15-year fixed, that's VA loan they they tend to have higher fees. There's a lot of stuff and it seems like a really great um option

espe you know, obviously from being in the military, but as you factor it all off math mathematically, your best bet is just to go get a traditional mortgage, but again, I would do a 15 versus a 30. >> Can I throw one other idea, Elizabeth?

Sure. Are you are you going to be staying in Hawaii or are you going to be moving somewhere off the island? Uh we plan to either California or Texas, but most likely Texas. Can I throw a a a second option out there?

Sure. Go exhale for the first time and rent for a year.

Get to know an area, get to know what you like. This is the first time you've been in your house and you'll find I want the cat the kitchens to look like this, the bathrooms to feel like this.

If you race out and buy something in a new state that you haven't lived in, it's just a recipe for, ah, we should have, I wish we had have. Just go rent for a year and keep piling up cash and then buy the house that you really, really want.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Up next, we [music] have Walt in Baton Rouge. Hi, Walt. Welcome to the show.

Yeah, hi. Thank you both for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, my question is about charging rent to my adult daughter. She's 23 years

old. She has been a registered nurse since she was 19 and she's worked full-time since the summer of '22, so almost 4 years. Okay. She still lives at home with us and she's going to grad school and in May of this year, she'll actually graduate and be a nurse practitioner.

Good for her. That is good for her. Great. Um, her tuition reimbursement from her employer pays the lion's share of this and she has no debt and has just been piling up cash.

That's awesome. All right. So, money-wise is in good shape there. In back in April '24, I began charging her rent of $300 a month plus a third of groceries to split those costs with me and my wife.

She now likes to say that I'm stealing from her and of course the relationship is tense. Uh, but she does not want to move out either.

Uh, she likes to say that none of her friends have to pay rent to live at home. Uh, we did tell her at some point that she could live here as long as she's in school, but we never expected it was going to be, you know, well into grad school like this. Uh, my wife and I do not need the money. Our intent was to show her that life has a cost to it. So, really the question is, how should we approach this with her to maintain the relationship in a healthy manner?

Those are those are two separate ends.

Um, or let me say this, the jeez, what an absolute mess.

>> Well, if she didn't say that you were trying to that you were stealing from her, I feel like I would have a totally different I was so on her team. And then that, I'm like, "What are you doing, girl?" You're a good dad and you and your wife are loving your daughter well.

Okay. Thanks. >> Okay. So, well done. I applaud you.

Bravo. You're not doing anything wrong. You're not doing anything wrong. In fact, you're I I'm surprised at that kind of statement, right? Is she saying it seriously or is she playing with you? Is she messing with you?

John, she has said this in the last week to us. >> Okay. I know, but like in a serious Is she playing like, "Oh, you're Y'all are stealing from me." Oh, it's not playing. It is with a mean spirit. >> Okay. Absolutely. I I I'm not going to have a mean spirit in my home.

And especially when I've been trying I I there's a history of I've been loving you well for all of this time.

And my wife and I have been your chief cheerleader through your whole life.

And we've given you such an incredible head start on the real world. Um, anything other than gratitude it like then that that's a behavior's a language, that's her saying, "I don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore." Or I don't want to be a part of this arrangement anymore.

And so, when I say it's two different ends, the right thing to do is to sit down and have a hard conversation, which is, "Hey, we've been trying to love you well and this is turning. I don't understand where this is coming from." And to let the adult who's about to be a nurse practitioner, right, allowed to be allowed to write scripts and deal directly with people's health and well-being, um, allow her to have a hard adult conversation.

And if she chooses to end the relationship, to sever it, to to

to do what is happening over the country, yeah, which is like, "I'm cutting you off." That will be heartbreaking and I would grieve the crap out of that.

But, she's an adult and she gets to make that kind of irrational choice, that kind of heartbreaking choice.

Cuz you know who says what she's saying? My daughter. And my daughter's nine.

My 9-year-old is supposed to say, "Well, other kids get smartphones." She's supposed to do that. My 15-year-old is supposed to stay say stuff like that cuz they're 9 and 15.

That's developmentally appropriate.

Right? Right. It is disrespectful and I it's

just hurtful for a grown adult who has

been given such an amazing gift.

>> bucks, Walt, for rent? Yeah. That's $10 a day. It's not like thir- thir- $1,300 that she should be paying for an apartment that she's probably about to live in, right?

I'm like, so it's not even like a crazy amount either. >> No, it's it's it it literally the answer is the same answer I would give to my daughter, which is, "I know I love you more than clearly your friends' parents love her love them." But, that that won't fly, right? That's not a Don't say that. Well, my question is, when did it change cuz you guys you said since 2024, so it's been almost 2 years.

When did the when did the shift happen? Just in the last week? I can't say that it's happened in the last week. It's been kind of coming for a little while.

I will tell you this, once she started getting involved with young men as well, too, that's kind of been the turn of this and I will tell you recently, um, she met a guy back last summer.

they got engaged after only about 12 weeks and it happened when my wife and I

were out of town and they did not tell or involve either set of parents. Ooh.

She's not pregnant or anything. Um, we don't like her choice in men. He has some character defects, dishonesty, laziness. He wants her to pay for his grad school and among other things as well, but she doesn't want to listen to advice. She ignores the red flags and

um, that mean and spiteful nature comes out whenever there's conversations that come up like that as well, too.

Well, but here's the deal. When she chooses like [snorts] as as a 24-year-old, she can date and and I say this without due respect, she can date whoever she wants to. She can marry whoever she wants to.

But, when she accepts the, um, when she takes

your generosity and says, "I want to live in your house," then even though she's 24, she is saying, "I'm going to live under the rules of my landlord." Yes. And I'm I if I started renting a house from a local guy here in town, I would be subject to that person's landlord rules, right?

Yeah, absolutely. >> That's the way that works. And so, if she doesn't like your rules, she doesn't like you saying, "I don't like this guy." or whatever, then she has to make a big grown-up adult decision and say, "Then I don't want to live in I can't have my cake and eat it, too, right?" Right. >> do whatever I want. I can't not listen to their like, right? And you get to set the terms, you're the landlord.

And it sounds like your terms have been incredibly fair. Is she still engaged, Walt? She is. Okay. So, when Have they planned the wedding? Like, is there a

He wants to rush it up. She's trying to she So, she's going on after this spring, she's going on to the extra four semesters to get her doctorate as a nurse practitioner and she wants to wait. And so, there's that tension there as well, too, but um, it's it's

it it's bleeding over. It definitely is and she's not happy. I didn't know if the wedding was like in April or something and and all this would just be a moot point in 3 months or what.

He would love for it to be as soon as they graduate because he graduates from undergrad in May. She She graduates with her master's in May. Yeah, I mean, he sees his meal ticket, man. He wants to lock that thing up as quick as he can.

That's what we're trying to tell her. Well, let me let me say this, too. There is I worked with college students and grad students my whole career, okay, before I came over to do this thing.

Um, there is I I don't know a psychological fancy term for it. I'll just call it a phenomenon where when

parents and and kids, whether they're 18, 17 and 18, or they're 25 and 26,

when there is a pending or inevitable separation, sometimes people get super, super, super clingy and sometimes people manufacture

conflict so that the separation is palatable.

Like subconsciously? I I don't think intentionally. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think like I need to move. I don't want It's hard to move. I need to move like and so I'm going to find a bunch of {quote} {unquote} reasons why I got to get out of here. Okay? And so let's take the best case scenario and say that's what's actually happening. She knows I've I've done my time here. I need to get my own place.

I'm I'm going to marry a guy that my folks don't like. Like it's time for me to grow up and she's had a really good thing for a long time. Here's where you can cut right through all of that.

You can take her out to breakfast. You and your wife can take her out. Probably one of y'all would be better that way it doesn't feel like two against one.

And you can say I'm not going to fight you. I love you too much.

You will never ever have a cheerleader as big as me. I got to fight you.

Here's what I think is right in my home.

I love you enough to keep up to always say what I think is best for you. If you ask me to stop talking to you about it, I will.

But here's the rules for if you want to live in my house. Here's Here's Here's the situation what what's going to be.

But it's you cutting through it like I'm not going to fight you. I'm not going to manufacture fights. I'm not going to go to war with you. I love you too much for that.

Um but I'll always be your cheerleader. I think just cutting through all that nonsense and saying I'm going to stick by my my my >> Which is a healthy balance. It's the day It's still It's still him having integrity within himself of being it but yet it's like I'm going to still be your dad. I'm going to always be your dad no matter what.

>> [music]

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Well, that's good to see some rates at five, you know? We They were holding steady >> Ta-da!

So, it's good. It's good going in the right direction especially for home buyers out there. All right, let's go to Elizabeth who is in St. Louis. Hi Elizabeth.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um so, my husband and I we purchased a double wide six years ago and our

interest is 10.44%.

And >> Whoa! 10.44 is that what you said? Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. It's It's pretty high.

Um I was kind of wanting some insight on what you guys would do in our situation.

We want to get out of it out of it as quickly as possible. Um I just kind of wanted some insight on that. Out of the double wide?

Yes. >> Okay. So, how much >> get a or a cheaper payment or should we refinance? I'm just not sure. Sure.

Uh how how much is left on the on the loan? Uh the owe $72,676.

Yep. Um How much do you guys make a year? My husband just got a new job. He is at

$26 an hour now and I'm a stay-at-home mom. >> So, on average how much is he bringing home a month?

Um

Um

I'll have to do the math. He handles the finances so I really I'm not I'm not 100% on that. Okay. So, you don't know how much you guys make a month?

Um I I can check. I just know I'm supposed to be fast. Let me like Okay. No, you're fine. You're fine. Um how much is your payment on this?

Um the house payment is $940.31,

but it is going to jump up to 956 in February for insurance and taxes.

>> Which is just an extra $16, right? Yes.

>> Okay. So, 956. I'm wondering yeah how is he making Yeah. Um That's a way lower house a

a living price, I'll say cuz this isn't a house, but that's a way lower monthly

rent than we hear from anybody a monthly mortgage. Yeah, I think just the main thing is just how high the interest is. If we stay in this thing and pay just the payment over a course of so many years, how much interest we're paying. It's just Yeah. Well, let's say he makes you

know, I don't know four I mean ideally hopefully he's making four grand a month at least cuz that'll be a fourth of your take-home pay, which means that this isn't a crazy percentage of your income.

That would be very reasonable.

If he makes around four grand and so what you guys would have to do Do you guys have any consumer debt?

Um we have

The only debt we have is on our truck.

We owe $23,864.62.

Okay. And then we owe 7,000 in medical.

Okay. Then 1,100 on our phones. Okay. And then

400 for our credit cards. Okay.

Okay, perfect. So, what I would do Are you guys wanting to stay in this double wide or you When you say we want to get out, is it you want a different rate or you want out of this cuz you guys want to go own a home? Like what Where Where are you guys at? >> eventually we would want to build a house.

>> right now. No, I'm not in a rush. I just for right now just a different >> what you could If If you were to sell it, I'm not suggesting that, but if you were, do you know how much it's valued at right now? I have no idea.

>> Okay. So, I would figure that out Elizabeth because most I mean depending on We hear kind of We hear kind of two different rules of thumb with this number wise on the show.

time these go down in value. They usually do not hold their value. So, I'm just curious um from what you from what it's worth versus what you you know, could sell it for um because you may be a little bit underwater on it. I don't know. But if I were you all um the first thing Elizabeth is I want you and your husband to sit down. Excuse Bless you, John. Excuse me.

>> [laughter] >> Sit down and I want you guys to look at the at look at all of your numbers Elizabeth cuz I want you to know. And this isn't to shame you. This is very common in a marriage. One person kind of just does the money and the other person's like great, you know, you just tell me.

But I want I want you to know. I want you to know how much he makes. I want you guys to do a written budget to say okay, here's how much that we spend on groceries. Here's the light bill.

Here's the mortgage. Here like here is everything we spend in a month. And I want you both to agree on it. Because what's going to happen too is I want you to slash anything you can out of that budget because your next goal as a couple is to pay off debt.

And I want the phones and the credit cards I would make it a goal to pay it off in the next 30 days.

And then we're going to work up to the $7,000 debt. And then we're going to work up for the truck. But for the truck, do you know um do you know what it's worth right now? Are you guys underwater on it at all? Um he just purchased it. It's a 2023

um Toyota Tacoma. Okay. So, I So,

depending on what you guys make in a year Elizabeth, if you guys cannot pay this truck off in a year to 18 months, you need to sell it. You can't afford it. Okay. Okay.

That sounds good. Yep. So, So, you guys just you guys need need a game plan. And the And the the mortgage I don't think cuz I don't know your income, which makes this really difficult cuz I'm not able to kind of like extract exactly the numbers. Um but it if he's making around $4,000 this this payment is not your issue.

It's other things happening with debt payments and all of that if you guys are tight and don't have margin. Okay. Yeah, and I did check and it's around $1,000 a week and Oh, perfect. Yeah. Okay, great.

Yeah, so that's around $4,000. Is Is there anything Sometimes when we're stressed about money and we sometimes that stress comes from there's a literally not enough to pay the bills, but sometimes that stress comes from we just don't know. We just don't know. We just don't know. It's easy to fixate on one thing and

make it that one thing

the the grand like this this huge dragon

that we have to slay.

Right. And could it be that your lack of I don't really know how much we make every month. I don't know exactly what all of our bills are. I'm just looking at these debts. It's that your focus just lasers in on that 10% and it's like we got to fix this, we got to fix this, we got to fix this. You get what I'm saying? Is that Could that be true?

Um it could be. Yes.

My husband he thinks we need to file bankruptcy, but I don't think we should.

>> No. Not even close.

Thank you guys. No. Not even in the same universe. >> Elizabeth, we just talked to someone with almost like $400,000 in business debt and he makes $60,000 a year. So Yes. I watch you guys all the time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Y'all are nowhere near bankruptcy. Y'all should just quit buying stuff y'all can't afford. Like this truck. >> Oh, yeah.

Yes. Absolutely. But he is pretty attached to it. He I don't think it's >> care. I'll focus on the credit card and the Well, no. No. No. Y'all focus on y'all's future that y'all are building together. Yes. And this might mean you

You're not going to like me saying this. It might mean that for a season you go get a job.

Right. Because for the next 12 or 18 months we're both going to do And he's got to get a second job on the weekends.

Yeah. And honestly I'm all for it. Like I could do like grocery pick up or something. Right now I have 202. So I've been making homemade soap from home and I've been selling that. But that doesn't bring a lot of income in. Yeah, but something creative from home, right?

That we're we're doing something. That's I think that's the key that there's movement happening. And you know And And here's the thing too, Elizabeth. This plan to do this kind of stuff it hits the ego right in the heart.

And And what it does is it takes someone that has is used to a certain level of lifestyle, a certain truck, or whatever the thing is. And it knocks it down a level or two, okay? And that's hard for That's hard for any anyone, right? We like progress. We like to see results.

We like to be moving forward. And the feeling like we're moving back in lifestyle is emotionally difficult, but mathematically you guys are going to start to see so much margin open up.

Like even Even this truck payment, you know how much it is a month?

Um it's around 530 around there.

>> that's like half your mortgage.

>> That's crazy, >> [music] >> right? So So even if y'all didn't have that and all these debt payments, like that could be close to like 800 900 bucks a month coming back to you guys. [music] So you're looking at the math and understanding this is the advantage that we have is so important, but getting on the same page and communicating to him your fears, your dreams, Elizabeth, is really really important, too. [music]

>> [music]

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show [music] in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with best-selling author and host of The Dr.

John Delony Show, John Delony. And so we are here to answer your questions. Give us a call at 888-825-5225.

All right. Let's go to Amanda in Denver, Colorado. Hi Amanda. Welcome to the show. Hi guys. Thank you so much for talking to me today. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

So my husband and I have been married for 17 years. I am 42 and he is 48. And uh

we made peace a long time ago with not having children. So we haven't been the best stewards of our dual income no kids money over the years. >> Okay. Um we haven't been the worst. Uh we don't carry any debt other than our mortgage, but we have very little in savings and no retirement.

Uh last August God surprised us with a

baby. Oh.

>> [laughter] >> Congratulations.

Thank you. Yeah. So um we are late in

life parents and kind of caught in the

cross hairs here going, "Oh my gosh. We didn't prepare for this." So >> Yeah. Um in hindsight, you know, I know we should have been planning for retirement for ourselves all along even without a baby, but now with a baby I feel like I am at ground zero and I have no idea what to prioritize and where to

start to give us a fighting chance at not only retirement, but just you know, solid financial stability while raising this baby in this crazy expensive world.

>> Totally. Are you guys both working?

Um I quit my job in April when I was about halfway through my pregnancy and I am currently a stay-at-home mom. >> Okay. Are you going to go back at all?

Do you know? Or will you wait probably for a bit and be a stay-at-home mom? I will I will wait for a bit. Um the intention is to not. I'd like to just remain a stay-at-home mom, but >> Good. Yeah. Yeah. But at least for the first 3 years, 3 to 5 years. No, that's great. Love it. How much does your husband make?

He makes 90,000 a year. >> 90,000. Okay. Do you guys have any consumer debt?

No. No. Okay.

Um any savings? Just cash savings?

>> I've I've got about $30,000 in bank.

Okay. That's great. Good emergency fund.

Okay. So what's wild is and I'm just going to run some rough numbers here. Um we have an investment calculator on ramseysolutions.com.

So check it out because that's just always like a It's kind of a fun thing just to piddle with and look. But let's say cuz we always say to save around 15% of your income. So I'm I just threw in a thousand bucks a month. Say you you guys invested a thousand bucks a month and you guys have nothing right now. Um and we'll say your husband's 48. I'm going to use his numbers since he's the one working. Um and then let's say he retires at 67 at a 10% rate of return, that's about $676,000.

So that's not as much as I would probably want. So what if we just Again,

I'm just messing around with this. Let's just say we um you doubled it, then that would be 1.3 million. If you guys saved two grand a month.

Because the Because the reality is too, his income's going to go up, right?

Throughout his 50s he'll be making more.

Um So I think you guys if you start now,

I think you will end up being fine. I mean, do you think after all is said and done, I mean, if you if you guys had 1.3 million at when he's 67 in order to

retire for instance. Yeah. And you guys, you know, if it was a 10% rate of return, you know, you'd be making 130,000, but you won't want to take all of that. So let's say 70,000 of that to live off of at retirement if everything was paid off, you know, that could probably be a possibility, right?

So all that to say, there's still hope. It's not like you guys are um doomed by any means. But yeah, I I would start, right? And And maybe be a little bit aggressive towards it.

Uh we owe 130 and there's about 300,000 in equity in it. So >> Okay. Great. No, that's awesome.

>> the other ditch effort would be do we sell the house and take that, you know, all the money and start kind of moving, you know? >> No, I wouldn't [snorts] do that. You're just robbing Peter to pay Paul there. >> Yeah, y'all are fine. You're good. >> Yeah. And And we have our our mortgage is it's 3.85, so it'd be silly to Yeah.

No, I think you guys are good. I'd pay that house off. I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, Amanda. You can go to ramseysolutions.com and find one in your area. But I would map out to say, "Okay.

Let's open up um He needs to have a Roth IRA. You can do a spousal Roth IRA." Uh does he have Does his company have a 401k?

I think they do. >> Okay. Well, I would ask.

Yeah. And see if they do a match. Um yeah, cuz there's definitely there's definitely a path for you guys to have retirement, 100%.

Um but again, it will be you guys, yeah, jumping on the train and you know, moving forward with it. But I would sit down with someone and look over your entire financial picture. Cuz you're in a great spot, Amanda. I mean, honestly, you guys have no debt.

You have $30,000 in savings. And then you guys are going to just start putting some money away monthly uh toward this retirement. And with compound interest and all of it, it's great. It's That's the best time to start is now.

is the phrase I just want to get back to.

Mm. Right? Like remember when I should have back in the day we should have been saving money. I just want to get back to we could just go out to eat whenever we wanted and we could The couples that I see do well are the ones that Oh, we have a baby at 42 and 48, right? >> Yeah. Who can put a period at the end of that old life Mhm. and not try to reclaim what was, but to rebuild something totally new. And it's saying,

"We had our fun. We spent it. We went on every vacation. That was a That was awesome.

And now, inside this new world we live in with a kid, with Oh gosh, we need retirement. This kid might want to go to college. All those things. Um we're going to have to create a new kind of awesome inside this new world.

And the couples that live in that reality, Mhm. what they come up with to to co-create in their life is amazing. It's awesome. The ones that are trying to live this life, but keep their looking back at the old them, dragging it behind them, >> man, it just becomes such a weight.

So true.

Borrowing, cheating, all these things.

Because they're carrying around this past and instead of just saying, "Dude, all right, this is our new world and we're going to go fully into it, right?" That is so interesting cuz I would think if you're carrying what what you wanted or what you thought would be, then you kind of like your your creativity, your brain move It all kind of just stops there. >> It doesn't allow you to say, "Okay, if I have this whole forward life, what are we going to do differently? What what can we do creatively to change up what we want if we want to get to this place?" >> become a hiking couple, right?

We're going to We're going to We're going to You know what? We're going to learn how to camp cuz that's what we have money for. Yeah.

>> Yeah. But we're going to live in this reality and we're not going to sit down there thinking about, "Oh, remember when?" We're going to fully embrace what we got and we're going to run forward with it. So good. Yeah.

And in this case, especially looking at retirement and numbers, I think living in the present realize, "Okay, this is our new life." They're going to feel broke for a while. >> now, what are we going Yeah, how are we going to shift this? >> to feel broke cuz 2,000 bucks a month that they used to just blow on whatever Yes. >> is going to go into an account for future them.

Yes.

>> Right. And great, cool. Feel that feeling and then just go do the next right thing. That's right.

That's right. And what's wild, you guys, is when you're looking at this kind of stuff, like wherever you are financially, if you're in your mid-40s, if you're in your 60s and you haven't started, like the point is to start as soon as possible, right? That's key because time is on your side. And even with their numbers, what's wild is the contributions they would put in with the example of two grand a month, which is a lot.

That's pretty aggressive. >> of money. Yeah, and I was just messing with numbers there, right? Probably a thousand is more realistic for 15% for them.

But what's wild is their contributions would be around 456,000, but the growth is almost 900,000.

Like the growth starts to outpace the principal so quickly when you realize, "Okay, if I can just start as early as possible, that that's on your side." It really is. >> could almost guarantee you they're going to go sit down with their 401K, their HR person and they'll be like, "Oh, we have an 8% match and we have a >> Yes. like, "Oh, we didn't know any of that stuff." And there's more, yes. But it's all about creating this new life [music] and this new future and these new goals, which is what Amanda and her husband are doing.

So, we applaud you guys, Amanda.

>> [music]

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Not available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Nora in Massachusetts.

I've been dating my boyfriend for almost two years and he has about $60,000 in debt, car loan, credit cards, etc.

He says he wants to get out of debt and he often complains about money, but I still see him spending on non-essentials.

He takes weeks to pay me back even after reminders. I've offered support without wanting to be pushy, but our financial habits and lifestyles don't seem aligned. Would I be wrong to end the relationship over financial incompatibility even though he says he's {quote} working on it? Mhm.

Well, saying one thing and doing another Yeah, behavior's a language. >> is very different. >> Behavior's a language. You're not crazy.

And honestly, no, which I hate this cuz I feel like money easily can be one of these topics that I'm like, "It's just shallow. Don't worry about it. Love can conquer all." That's what I want to believe in life, but the truth is, too, money speaks so much about who we are and how we do life, how we function in life. And when you're not compatible with that, there's going to be a I'm not going to say a constant conflict happening, but it's going to be an uphill battle. M- Money to me here is uh

you said this in an earlier show is a revealer. Yes.

Cuz if I'm looking at a guy who says, "I want to do this," but then he goes and behavior's a language, does a bunch of other stuff, says a bunch of other stuff with his actions, is he going to be the kind of guy that's like, "I want to be a good husband, Yes.

but da da da or I want to show up for

our kids, but right?" And so, I

especially at a young age, I'm assuming they're young. I'm just guessing here.

Um I want to see potential.

I want to see somebody that keeps their promises to themself.

And I want to see somebody that makes a plan doesn't stick to it perfectly, but >> Sure. tries to stay on a path.

>> Yes, is moving forward. >> he wanted to get out of debt, he'd sell his car and get rid of the car loan.

He would say, "Hey, we got to start eating at cheaper places. I hope you'll still like me." And it sounds like you'd be like, "Oh, thank god. I love you, right?" Um but it's it is Yes. the money is just the the flashing light that this is a guy who says one thing, but he does another thing.

That, if you were my sister or my daughter, that would be what I would say. I want you to look out for that thing. The red flag, yes. Like own owning 60,000 bucks of debt, w- what I say, "Don't marry somebody in debt?" No.

But if the person is, man, if your guts are telling you, "Dude, he's not a guy he's a guy who says one thing and does another," that's enough to make me back up a little bit. >> Yes, and you saying like I've offered support without all the stuff and then in that kind of situation, Nora, it's one of those couples that you end up being like his mom. You be you're in more of a parental role >> loaning him money. You're his bank.

You're his mother. You're not >> care of him. You're Yeah. uh having to help him be responsible, right?

And then you end up being in like this like motherly role and that's weird. And that happens a lot in marriage. We talked to a lot of uh couples where women, you know, are in that situation or men on the other side. So, um so yeah, Nora, it's not the fact that he has debt by any means or, you know, that like you what John was saying, it's the fact that he's not following through with what he said and that he's living with a set of values around money that you don't agree with.

Mhm.

whether we like it or not, money fights and money problems are one of the main reasons of divorce in America because it just again, it conflicts with everything of how we do life on a daily day-to-day basis. Like you can't ignore that. And so, um it just I think it will be a stress point. It will be a reason you

don't sleep well at night. Uh what I mean? It's just all of that is magnified when you're married. So, uh yeah, if you guys can't get at least moving on the same page, again, not perfection, but moving towards the same page, um yeah, it may be it may be a deal breaker, which I hate so much, but that that's the reality. All right, let's go to Susan in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Susan.

Hi. Uh thank you for taking my call. Um

my family started a large home addition project last year in July. Um the

project that uh we're um paying about $313,000 for the project. And it was supposed to

be done by Thanksgiving.

And it It's not anywhere close to being done right now. >> Mhm. And so, um we we are new to this

kind of project. So, at initially, we just kind of trusted our contractor.

But as the time go went on, it just things didn't seem like it made sense and the timing that he was giving and as Thanksgiving went by, he kept on giving us, "Oh, it'll be done by this other date." And it's not done. And it's not done. And I just wanted your you guys' advice on how to proceed with just not, you know,

goals not being met on the project.

>> Yeah, is he just not showing up, Susan?

Like are there days and days and days that he that he's not even there or doesn't have any crews there?

Um there's not days and days and days, but maybe there's like a couple days that he says they will be there, but they're not there. Um but then they show up and so he keeps on communicating with us and um he shows

up, but it's not consistent.

Okay. Is it Is there any Is he giving

you a reason for why this is happening? Is it material? Yeah, what's he saying? What's his reasoning?

He's Well, we are using an Amish crew in Indiana. And so the Amish

um they have butchering days where they can't come because they all have to butcher. Um they have a car breakdown. He gives us different reasons throughout the whole thing. >> Okay. And so he's He At least like the pros of him is that he communicates and he's not giving up on the project. Like he hasn't disappeared. And the other

contractors are all saying >> low bar though, Susan.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, I know. >> he doesn't cheat on me. He's pretty great. And it's like, well, that's pretty low bar. >> Exactly. Yeah. Um This is the He also

has local connections. I'm sorry. Go Go ahead. Go ahead.

So he's using contractors locally that we have talked about with other people um and they say, "Oh yeah, he's a good guy." And so um and we we Anyway, so

um the options that we're thinking about right now to get this project moving faster and putting some pressure on him is do we write a new contract for him and say, "We know it's past. We need new

deadlines and new commitments." And some people have told us that we need to just hire a lawyer and be done with him and try to get as much money out of it. >> Have you already paid him the full 313?

We have a retainage of just 11,000 left

from the budget. >> So So you've given him 300 basically.

Basically, yeah.

Oh man.

I I And another Yeah. Well, I would have

I I think there's a combination. And Rachel, this is your world. Y'all do this stuff kind of work. Um I

I would sit down with him and say, "We've given you $300,000. This This job

is now going on 3 to 4 months overdue.

Um I'm I I'm very close to calling an attorney to get this thing settled and get my money back so that I can go hire somebody to do the work that you agreed to do by this date by this contract we have." And um and and I would have a new contract prepared and say by this date, this is what's going to be. And if he doesn't sign it, that's cool. Then he might call your bluff and then we'll need to go get an attorney and figure that out.

Yeah, cuz I mean with some real estate, you know, especially if you're doing a remodel or something like that, for some people they say like, "Okay, it's going to take twice as long and twice as expensive." Right? That's kind of the rule of thumb, which is which sucks, right? I mean, I think you can do it very much in a tightened up timeline and budget, which is what, you know, I've experienced before. Um But all that to

say, I do wonder for him, have you guys

had a level of intense conversation, a very direct and clear conversation with him or are you just answering him via text and calling it a day? >> Oh, no. We've had some direct conversation. We've talked to him about Not yelling at him, but our frustrations with um how the project has been handled. >> Sure. Um much more towards like, you

know, after um the deadline has been passed. So like in December we had lots of and now even more so this month.

>> Just You know, the deadline's been passed. They haven't been showing up as much as I think they should be to try to Mhm. um get it done as fast as possible.

>> I think I think the two things are you need a new deadline that's reasonable and he needs to be able to meet that deadline. And if not, yes, then maybe there is some some legal >> [music] >> um you know, processes that you go to. And also, and I'll be honest too, Susan, I don't know a ton about the Amish community, but you have chosen someone that's in a type of culture that I've never heard this. This is the first time ever that I've heard of this kind of problem.

>> that they have to take off or I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

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>> Open phones at 888-825-5225. [music]

Give us a call and we are answering your questions about life and money.

Up next we have Alice in Boise, Idaho.

Hi Alice, welcome to the show.

Hi, how's it going? Doing great. How can we help today?

Um okay, so I'll get right to it. I um

me and my husband have been married for a little over 2 years. We are debt-free

and we're looking to have financial planning. My husband's older brother is a financial planner. He's really good at his job. Um my husband has his retirement account with him and I have my retirement account separate. Okay.

>> Um we are My husband and I are both on the same page of putting our retirement accounts

into like a third party like a SmartVestor Pro. So we met with them on Monday. Um we're just looking for advice on how to talk to his brother about saying, "Thanks so much for being like willing to look over his accounts for him, but we're going to Mhm. we're going to go with the independent. So we're not mixing family >> I I I can tell you that the conversation I had with my uncle, who's a CPA, Uh-huh. He did my taxes for years. He's a He's like an amazing man of character.

He's awesome. And it got to a point where

I only reached out to him to ask for tax stuff.

And I remember thinking, "I want him to have the privilege of just being my uncle." And so I told him, "Hey, I'm going to get somebody else to do my taxes this year cuz I want you to just be my uncle now.

I want to be a guy I call for life advice, for wisdom, to check in on. Like he's one of the funniest guys I've ever met." So like I I told him, "I want I

want us to just have a regular relationship. I don't want us to have a client-customer relationship also." And he was he he was cool with it. But that that's what I used in my house. >> Yeah.

Alice, is your reason for wanting to switch, which I totally get. That may I mean, I don't think it's a weird thing to want to switch from your brother-in-law. Is it because he's not great or is it because it it's going to get awkward as he's looking at your numbers? Is it more of like a relational move or is it from like a competency standpoint?

No, he's completely competent.

don't mix finances and money. Mhm. I'm sorry, finances and family. Yeah. And then Um >> Has it been weird or you're scared it's going to get weird?

I'm just worried that in the future like life happens and then it could become an issue. That's my concern. Totally. Um

yeah, I think either way, let me give you like a another example of one that we stayed. And this is different than a brother-in-law. So I do think the family thing, you know, is fair to have some boundaries there. But our SmartVestor Pro, literally the guy that we go to that has all of our information, was a groomsman in our wedding.

He's like one of my husband's best friends, okay? And >> My SmartVestor Pro, too, was in my wedding. And his wife Yeah, and his wife was a bridesmaid. We actually set them up.

So like Like he's and he says And here's what I appreciate about him. Number one is like I He says every meeting, cuz we meet every January, like once a year we always sit down and look at everything. And he almost he starts out every meeting with, "Hey guys, if this ever gets weird, pull the plug. Like I am not offended.

I get it because numbers are so personal. And here I am looking at exactly how much you're getting paid." Like I mean, you see it all.

And And I think some people really can.

So I'm saying all that to say, on one end, it's your brother-in-law and it could get really weird. And just like John and his uncle. And it's like, "Hey, I just would rather like Yes.

>> even get weird. It was just I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah. But But you just made the call. It's like, "I just want you to be my uncle." Or "I just want you to be my brother-in-law. I don't want to have to even worry.

I don't even want to have to even think walking in the door at Christmas if it's a down year and we're Like I don't even want you connected to our money just cuz I I just want you to be our brother-in-law. Like that is an okay answer. And then I will give a little bit of a freedom on the other end that if it's not gotten weird and you think like, "Hey, maybe, you know, we give permission to each other that down the road if we if we just like, "Hey, at any reason for any reason we want to switch, like we're all good and it's okay and let's just maybe wait and see." I don't know, right?

>> could. I I took a call on my show on on the John Delony Show this morning in uh in another studio um where a brother had

ooh like awful taken advantage of his younger brother in a business. Okay, so that could happen. But the other side of it and I would even go with the more common would there be anybody on the planet that would look after you and your husband's money with more intent like

scrutiny than his brother?

No, I mean he would do a great job. It would be And so I I think that's worth I I think I think trying to pro- project any weird thing that might happen one day into the future and drag that into the present is that's just I mean that's the definition of anxiety.

Yeah, no, for sure. Right, so For sure.

I think I love Rachel's idea of of starting every meeting and or y'all sit down and say, "All right, I'm about to move my money over." And look at him and say, "I love you and I'm I can't imagine trusting anybody on the planet more than you and I'm worried that one day this will be weird, so I just want to call it out if I ever if we ever decide to go with somebody else, I want you to know that we love you and you're our bro- like you you you know what I'm saying?

Um but Rachel's totally right. I he could if he's not a good guy, he could take advantage of you in ways that nobody else can, but man, if he's for you dude like he will move heaven and earth to make sure his brother and his nephews and nieces or whatever y'all decide to do one day like that they're okay, right? >> And and that's also Alice, no pressure to keep to stay with it. Like if you still get off this call and you're like, "Oh yeah, maybe I am projecting fear into the future and it hasn't happened yet, so maybe we stick with it for another couple years." That's great.

Or if we get off this call and you're like, "Ooh, I still don't like it." Have the conversation then of the "I just want you to be our brother-in-law and it's nothing about your competence. You're amazing. I love you. I just don't want to even second-guess anything when we see each other about money.

I just don't I don't want to combine the two and that's what makes you comfortable and your husband comfortable then you can say that. And I think and then go get a SmartVestor Pro, right? So, I think I think either one is okay. Can I ask you one other quick question while I got you?

You've I'm assuming you've told your husband this?

Yes, yeah. We're we're on the same page.

>> your husband has said, "I will leave my brother to go where you feel comfortable." Yep, he has. You married really well.

I did. >> That's awesome. I just want to shout out your husband, a guy that once he once he says till death do me part do do does us part that you come first. That's awesome. So good.

>> I love that, dude. >> Great question, Alice. Thanks for the call. All right, let's go to Aaron in Salt Lake City. Hi Aaron, welcome to the show. Hi Rachel, how's it going? Thanks for uh thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I've kind of got some truck issues

and I've been told a couple times now that I might be emotionally attached to the truck and so I I'm just kind of looking for some advice so I don't make a stupid I have no idea what what this feels like, so >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I was about to say you're not the first dude. Yeah. Okay, so what what's going on? Can you afford the truck?

Yes, so the truck's I I have a small business. I do landscaping, so the truck is my livelihood. >> Okay. Um I have a smaller >> I owe nothing on it. And that's kind of where I'm sort of attached to the truck.

I had about uh okay, it's it's a complicated thing because I am capable of fixing this truck myself. >> Okay. But I can't take the time away

from work to have the truck down.

>> How much is the truck worth? >> And so it's worth about 14,000. >> Okay. What do you need to have done to it? Well, so it needed some motor work and then I hit an elk and after that >> Well, I think [laughter] any truck hitting an elk >> Did you did you dress it and eat it?

Gross. No, I they told me I couldn't. It was sad. Oh man, you called it in. Good for you for being a good citizen, but man. Okay, so so you feel like you're putting too much into it and it's breaking too much.

And once it's fixed from the elf or the the elf the elk incident, is it going to be okay?

Yeah, and I'm in favor of fixing it. I'd rather fix it. I I might be a little attached to it, but I I can fix it for like 3,500 bucks. I just need

well, I need something in the meantime.

It's going to be down two to three weeks at least and I have to use my truck every day. >> How much does it cost to pay somebody?

Pay somebody what? >> I I'll have to look into renting. It needs to be at least a 1-ton truck. No, no, no. How how much how much would it cost for you to take your car to a mechanic and say, "I need this back in 72 hours."?

So, I got a quote for 7,400 and it would be two weeks. >> Okay, so it'd be two weeks also.

And that's not including the body work, so really and the body work was 7,200.

>> Go rent go rent a truck for go rent a truck for two weeks and call it a day.

Get the truck fixed. >> yeah, cuz you're looking at renting a truck and you're looking at a car repairs. Let's say 10 grand total.

You're going to spend double, triple, quadruple that on a new truck.

>> Yeah. So, keep it.

>> I I don't know. If you love the truck >> hit it. You hit an elk. Like it's different if you're like putting a thousand dollars into it every two weeks cuz it's falling apart.

I don't know. I don't know much about trucks, but an elk is I mean that's [laughter] animals, so I would assume it would be in the shop. Yeah. Yeah. Keep it keep it, Aaron. Fix it and rent [music] rent for two weeks if you have to.

>> [music]

[music] >> Tax season is upon us. So, to get free checklists and guides [music] that will help you file, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

We are here to help.

All right, let's go to Laura in San Antonio, Texas. Hi Laura, welcome to the show. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

I lost my job and now my investment

property is in foreclosure. Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry.

When did you lose your job?

Um it's well, I lost my job and then I got another job and then I was laid off off that job. Oh man. So, my I lost my second job December this past past December. Okay. >> When's the last time you made a payment on your investment property?

So, the investment property was a Airbnb

and then we listed it for long-term rental. When the uh renters moved out,

um I list I that's when I lost my job and as soon as I lost my job, I listed the home for sale with no leads. Um I was depleting my

savings. I had five months of savings and I paid every single month on time. I had excellent credit and I don't want to ruin it. But then I depleted my savings

and the realtors couldn't sell the house, so I changed realtors hoping that would solve the issues. Still didn't happen and after four months, um well,

they tried to do a short sale. That didn't work and after four months, that's when they they did a foreclosure on it. So, it's now in foreclosure.

Where is it in the process? Where are you guys at with the bank and everything? >> Um they the last letters we received were in December when I was laid off and they said that they were going to list it the first of the month. Okay.

>> Um to keep bids. >> Yeah. So, to be honest, I have no idea.

Okay. When will they when will they start that the auction process, do you know? It already started in December. They set a date for it. Oh, it started in December. And when will they >> close the bid? Like when will they close the bidding?

Um I have [clears throat] no idea.

Okay. Um so, I would probably get some some dates. I would call the bank and have you communicated with them at all since December or was that letter of communication the last?

So, when I called them, they said they can't help me that the loan is no longer

with them that it's in foreclosure and they don't give me any information. They're saying that the um short sale didn't go through. Yeah. And that now it's in foreclosure, so I have no idea who to call.

I've even called the F- FDA or I don't know the number what it is. Right, right. Well, that's ob- yeah, because the bank cuz it'll be a bank-owned property, right? At one point, but um what's you're on the hook for and everything is what I would you know, I I would want all the facts of their dates and and what their plan is.

to be able to help you is just that's that's crazy. Okay, so when was the when was Well, I guess it doesn't matter. It's already in foreclosure. I was going to ask when the last month that that you actually made the payment, but that would have been back in the fall, right?

Yes. >> Yeah. Okay, so for income for you, Laura, what are you what what were you doing for a job in December that you got laid off?

Um I was making 75,000 as a project coordinator. Oh, wow. So, an amazing job. How's your

um current residence right now? Your primary residence, how are you paying your mortgage for that?

Yes, so my husband covers all our primary residence bills and um mortgage

along with the food and gas, so that's helpful. So, the so the so the investment property was in your name and he let he let it go into for- foreclosure. You guys kept your money separate because you couldn't pay it, it goes into foreclosure?

It was under both of our names.

Okay, but he didn't have money either to be able to help with it?

No, so the only money that he has is to take care of our primary home where we live and all of our bills.

>> Okay. Since I don't have a job now.

>> And then he's and then he's out. His income just does that and then you guys have no other margin.

Yes. >> Okay. I I say this with all due respect cuz I care about you.

But you can't wait around for another $75,000 project coordinator job. You got to go get a job or two jobs or three jobs right now.

Making anything. Starbucks, uh Home Depot, any job cuz you have two issues.

One, you have a math problem you got to solve.

And the second thing is is you've got to get your feet back underneath you confidence-wise and man, there is no question about it. Rachel and I are sitting here in the in the ash with you.

Getting fired from two different jobs back-to-back and one's one at least one of them was a killer great job. That's heartbreaking and hard and

the solution isn't just sending out a bunch of resumes on LinkedIn or hoping that another one falls out of the sky. I just got to Right now I got a math problem I've got to solve and I got to get back on it in in in a big way. Right Rachel, I don't know where to I wouldn't even know who to call For that well, I mean I would continue well, they're going to continue to they'll continue to at least have to communicate with you at some degree. So whether it's letters which was you know, 20 days ago or whatnot.

But I would continue until it gets all buttoned up until the property sells to know everything. Like that that's what I would be doing. But honestly, the saving grace for is that it was a investment property. It's not your primary home.

So you're not losing your actual residence which is huge, but your credit I mean your credit score is going to be completely dinged.

It's [clears throat] It's just gone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but again, we don't worship at the altar of that either and I think moving forward what John's saying is exactly right for you guys. Get this all cleaned up which hopefully in the next gosh 30 60 days, um you know, you'll you'll have everything kind of buttoned up with that and then it's the moving forward process that you're going to have to be able to focus on and that's going to be that income. >> Laura, hang on the line.

Um I'm going to send you EveryDollar Premium app.

Cuz this may be uh this is going to be a really painful awful hard process with the foreclosure and all the letters you're going to get and all the threats you're going to get and all that kind of stuff. But Rachel, you just mentioned it and I'd miss this and I want to call it out.

This might be your chance for you and your husband to get completely off the credit score, the passive income, all

the nonsense that we're told signifies we have wealth in our in our culture.

And this might be a moment for you and your husband to completely change how y'all do money. And we're not going to owe anybody any money. As for our house, we don't borrow money anymore. We're going to get an emergency fund. We're going to be our own credit card. We're going to be our own support network and we're going to build wealth the old-fashioned way which is slowly and over time. And um hang on the line here.

We'll hook you up with those resources. I know this is a messy hard time. Yeah, for sure. But it is like it's a cautionary tale um and I'm sorry Laura that you have to be the example of it.

But guys, this is what we talk about with especially all these hacks and this stuff of like oh we can do this and this. We can Airbnb that and all of it. You know, for sure sometimes does it work? Absolutely.

But there's also a huge reality that it doesn't, right?

Here's an easy way to make money, you know, all this stuff. And people fall for it all the time. All the time.

>> sit on one side of the fulcrum, right?

They sit on one side of the teeter-totter and they're like look, it's always going to be like this and then reality crashes down on the other side of it. And And it and it and it's like you know, and it and it's the perfect storm. I mean Laura, seriously, you lose the job, someone gets sick, someone gets pregnant wants to stay home. Right?

I mean like anything in life that can happen, that's why carrying debt carries risk because when life happens, it's not if it does, but when it does, when life happens all the cards are on the table and if it's a house of cards that you've built and three of the bottom, you know, the foundation get fallen out, you know, fall out, the whole thing crumbles. And it that's what she's experiencing right now.

I'm going to if I can't if I can't pay for it in full, we're not buying it. You know, we are going to take our time building wealth over a proven method. What you do

is you create a really sturdy foundation. So if a couple of those fall, your whole thing is you know, you lose a job. Well, you have an emergency fund. You don't have consumer debt. You know, you you got 6 months, you know, saved over here. Like that's old school. Save for a rainy day. That's old school. It's not cool and awesome and so fun and this hack. But man, when life happens, you're not shaken, right? And and so that's common sense, you guys. That's biblical.

Like there's so much scripture in Proverbs about this about what just slow. The diligent prosper. Continue on

the path even though it's not flashy and exciting and you don't get cool Airbnbs and invest in this course that this 28-year-old guy is like look, I make a billion dollars a month off of this, you know, and everyone buy my course and everyone goes and buys it thinking they're going to be that. Like it's just it's not real. It's not real. Or the number of people who after all the expenses on like their Airbnb, they're like I make a thousand dollars a month.

And I ask them what their mortgage is and they're like well, it's 2700 and I think if you had just paid that off you would technically be making 2700 bucks in extra money.

>> right. That's right. >> so I'm going to pay 2700 so I can make a thousand and it's like it's such a weird trade. >> Yes, 100%. [music] I know you guys. So remember slow and steady, the boring way of building wealth, it's the safest and the less risky. >> [music]

[snorts]

>> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Delony and we are taking [music] your calls at 888-825-

5225.

All right, let's go to Anne in Seattle, Washington. Hi Anne, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So I've been engaged for almost 2 years.

Um about a year ago my fiance suggested

we consider getting a pre-nup.

We both have children who are adults now. We have our own property and we

both are self-employed with our own businesses.

Um I've been a single mom, never married and he was previously married for almost 23 years.

Um the property that I have is paid off and I don't have any debt. Um he's paying on a mortgage and he has some other debt although I'm not sure exactly how much.

Um so I'm trying to figure out how we plan our future together Mhm. if our assets and finances stay separate. Yeah.

I'm 46 and he's almost 50. So I feel like we still have so many years ahead of us for wealth building and Sure. you know, just putting a future together and

um Yeah, how much how much are your net worths? Like how if what what's your net worth? What what's his?

Um so uh after like taxes and expenses

with his business um so mine would be uh

worth like what I make every year or >> Um it can be that or just like what are you worth? Like if you put all of your >> Your house, your business, your cars, Yes. All your retirement, everything.

Oh, um so mine is probably

550,000

almost 600,000 and um I I know What about him? What's what would he be worth? So um I know his property and well, the house and the property combined are worth about 750, but he owes um 280 on the

mortgage. Okay, so 500 does he have a lot of um retirement?

I don't think he has any retirement. You don't think or do you know?

So Cuz in order to sign a pre-nup, you kind of have to You know what I mean? I'm like before I'd even talk about that, I'd have every piece of information financially about each other. I almost feel like he's he's waiting to disclose all that when it comes time to put together the pre-nup because I I'm really open about just everything. My finances and and just that just any I'm I'm very open.

I like to talk about >> well, you're going to get married to the guy. So I'm curious why he's not so open about it. I Here's the thing. I I I'm going to be honest.

really challenged in a good way.

And it it's James Sexton an an attorney out of New York who he's the one who challenged [clears throat] me on it and it was this.

Every married couple has a pre-nup. And

it is whatever the state you live in says this is how we're going to split it up unless y'all sit down and write out while you still like each other what would happen if?

Okay?

We could We could debate that. Um in fact, some of my colleagues disagree with me. I I I'm I'm not I'm unsettled in my opinion on it because I do feel like if you have make a pre-nup, you're already getting into the boat thinking well, I just need to have an escape plan if this thing happens. And um I do think

there's wisdom in talking about, okay, if this many percentage of marriages don't work and you're marrying somebody who already has had one that didn't work, let's be honest about what happens if this doesn't. And we're going to do everything we can. So, that's for a different discussion. To me, my biggest red flag for you is what a prenup would serve you two right now is to make sure your kids are protected.

>> going to say the adult kids is a change for me. >> asset-wise. >> Yeah. And not It's not a way to keep secrets from each other or to keep everything separate forever cuz once y'all get married, we're going to have one checking account.

We're going to put all of our money in the same together and his business may pay him a salary and your business may pay you a salary, but it's going to go into the same account. And if it doesn't, a prenup's not going to solve that.

Right? It's just a plan.

>> [clears throat] >> So, I I think his um I think his

it seems like his biggest concern Well, he almost lost his home during his divorce or going through his divorce.

And he >> had to come up with so much money to keep it. >> That pain is real. The pain is real.

>> Yeah. I I fully understand it and respect that. >> I I do. I know, but he can't hand you that cinder block and say, you carry this for me.

Him getting remarried to you is him saying, whoo, okay, here we go again. I'm going to put both feet back in the same boat.

Mhm. Right? Because otherwise he's going to have a foot hanging out of the boat and the whole the the y'all will never get out of the bay.

Mhm. Yeah, he he had said he would like to leave his property to his daughters. Um

and that's okay. >> fair and good. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, so so yeah, my thing is yeah, and I'm with John.

I'm not black and white on the issue of prenups. Usually if there's a discrepancy in wealth going into a marriage, that's one time that I'm like, I get that. This is another if adult kids with assets. >> Yes, adult kids and in a second marriage and you know what I mean, all of that and it's like, hey, the adult kids is what I want this to go to them because I've worked hard for this and I mean, all of that that's that seems fair to me.

the you you don't know him fully and you're engaged and you're engaged to him. So, that that does worry me and I would want to make sure that the language that you have enough representation if you guys do go into this and do some kind of prenup that you have representation on your end because it does sound like you have no debt.

You have a home. You've done very well financially. He has a home, but he has debt is what you said you think. You don't even I don't even know if you know how much. >> You don't even know. >> Or how much Yeah, so So, I mean, you could be in a better financial you know, situation than he even is.

Um but I would just want to make sure you have representation on your end as well, Anne. Um but it would not be a That's not That's not the black and white issue to me. Um what worries me though is the secrets. >> Yeah, how how this is coming about.

>> bother you, Anne? I'm just curious cuz it would I I I wouldn't be able to get close to somebody if they were like, hey, you can know all of me. Let's get married, but you can't know what's in these accounts.

Yeah, it just So, I'm not like the kind of person I've been almost afraid to ask cuz I don't want it I don't want to seem like I'm being nosy or You're about Listen, hon, you're about to be his wife.

>> [snorts] >> Yeah. >> You're about to be his wife.

I didn't want to offend him by I like part of you know, for a while I've just like I'm like, well, it's none of my business. That's not It is. You're about to become his You're about to become his wife. What What if he owes $20 in in back taxes and debt?

Mhm. Right? You want to know. And Anne, you're and I get and I get your kindness of spirit. I can like feel that from you and it's so wonderful and such a gift.

But you need to have the strength to push into areas of this marriage that you aren't comfortable in order for this marriage to thrive. It's not sweeping things under the rug and you already begun that habit. And that's not a great

setup. >> Burying parts of yourself to keep the peace. >> asking your fiance his money situation is not rude or weird. Like that's Do you know what I mean?

You're not like I don't know. It's like you're not asking to be like, hey, you need to move to a foreign country with me for 18 year or whatever. I don't know. Something big up and big and you're like, oh my gosh, what?

This is just like this is pretty basic stuff, Anne. Like So, Can I get your opinion on something else? >> Real quick. We got like 10 seconds.

Okay. He had said that he doesn't he don't doesn't want to move from the home that he shared with his previous wife even after I suggested we build a home together. I have property we can build on or I can sell my property and pay off his mortgage. >> Okay. And he is just like, those are not options for him. He just You know what?

I'm going to hold you cuz I'll we'll answer that in the next segment. So, stay on the line, Anne, and we'll get right back to you.

>> [music]

[music]

>> How many of you are ready for a fresh start with money this year? Maybe you want to pay off debt or start saving for retirement. And those are great goals, but you're also probably thinking, well, sure, Rachel, but with what money? My budget is so tight as it is. Listen, I hear you, but you can do more with your money this year. And our EveryDollar budget app helps you find margin to make it happen. This is such a game changer.

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>> [music]

>> One of our favorite [music] things is hearing people share their stories on how they're winning with money. And so, we got this one from Claire and Winston.

Great name. Uh this is me and my husband's third month of budgeting with the EveryDollar app and I am amazed at how much money we have found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500

extra in margin each month to put towards our debt. >> $3,000? >> 500 Yes, 3,500.

>> Golly. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off. We are never going back. It's incredible, you guys.

So, if you want that kind of control, you want to see your income go as far as possible for you, EveryDollar is the most amazing budgeting app. So, you can go download it for free at EveryDollar. Um you can go to the App Store or Google Play and this is where you start to really change your family tree.

All right. Uh we're going to go back to Anne. We were talking to her. She is

getting married. She is engaged. Her husband This is her his second marriage.

They both have adult children. They both own homes, own businesses. The question was about a prenup. She doesn't fully know all of his financial information.

And then right before we were going to break, uh she started talking about their home situation. So, Anne, is that a good summary overall?

Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And so, your your husband I mean, your your fiance does not want to move out of the house he shared with his ex-wife for more than two decades.

And you have said, I don't feel comfortable living in that house. Let's build something new. You can move into my house. I've got property. And he said, deal breaker. I stay here.

Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I But even after I I'm like, you know, I'm I'm of course I'm willing to make sacrifices.

And so, I I just want to get him I don't I want to see him out of debt. I want him to you know, take a break. He's been working so hard all these years to you know, to recover from the divorce. And And so, I I even suggested I could sell my property and to and we could use that money to pay off his mortgage, but he doesn't want to do that either.

And I I'm I'm just kind of not sure where to go from here. It's how to move Yeah, cuz that would mess up the prenup. I mean, that's you putting your assets into the asset that he's then going to give his kids and you're not getting any part of that, right? So, that's where the whole kind of like it starts to be really complicated really Can I Can I tell you what I what I hear?

Okay. I hear a guy that likes you.

I'll even go as far to say he loves you.

And he wants to be with you and he sees like, I want to be with her long-term, but I don't see a guy who wants to get married.

Mhm. I I did ask him a couple weeks ago just really like out of I was blunt. I'm like, are you sure you want to get married? And he said he said, heck yeah.

Okay, [laughter] but I I think he has a picture of what marriage is and you have a picture of what marriage is and you're both using the same word, but your pictures are very different.

So, around here at the office we say, clear is kind.

I think the kindest thing y'all could do for each other is to in is exquisite

details possible, y'all detail out

what your picture of marriage looks like from how we talk about money to sex and intimacy to inheritance to wills to one

checking account. Whatever your picture of marriage is, I want you to have the courage to write it out and share it with him and ask him to do the same thing. Mhm. And hopefully 80 90% of it it all matches. And then you're going to have to compromise, negotiate, walk away from

each other because the other five or 10% is so big, right? Or maybe it's okay, I can do that, you can do this. But y'all are both have different pictures of what this thing looks like. >> Yeah, cuz there is a level of sacrifice and meeting in the middle and it sounds like he's putting up some really hard lines of even [clears throat] where I'm going to live here and you got to deal with it. >> Yeah. That's a lot. You know what I mean?

>> I don't care what your values are. >> Yeah. So making sure those values are aligned are huge and so yeah, when it comes to the housing situation, I mean it's whatever you're comfortable with.

itself, but the funds and the equity that's in your home if you do end up selling it and moving in to his home, that that's yours, right? So it's not fair for you to wash yours clean, he keeps all this and then keeps it if something happens in the marriage. So Yeah, if but if if two people are getting married and they both have houses and they want to sell their house combine that money and go buy a house together and one of them's not pre-nupping it away from the other person, that's awesome. Combine everything, you want to go all in, you can do it.

>> that's usually what you do. Yeah, but he wants to keep this house for his adult kids. So it's like, okay, well then you need to make sure that your house then is in a protection for you. Yeah.

And at least the equity in there, right?

Here's what I really believe and have the courage to share that with him and he might look at that and walk away. And that you're you're worth that risk.

>> Mhm. Well said. That's great. All right, let's go to Samuel in Columbia. Hi Samuel, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

Awesome. Yeah, so um

going through some forbearance stuff with my mortgage company, took a pretty big hit last year on my

income decreasing due to a family member's medical problem.

>> Mhm. Uh me and my wife, we have three kids, one on the way.

Um uh the the mortgage company up my mortgage of $1,500 for the next 6 months to square away November, December and January. >> Mhm. Um I got a car that's about 60 days

past due. I have a lease that the payment on it's cheaper, so we're currently trying to keep the leased vehicle um to get out of the higher payment of the other vehicle.

Um and I don't mind explaining details as we go through them. I'm just trying to lay things a little bit of a PowerPoint out for you, but um

that's basically where I was at. We was pulling 8 to 10k a month um for the past two to three years And that was income? March of 2020. Yes, in income 8 to 10 grand a month. Um that was what was rotating through my accounts until the the the situation

that happened with my great aunt. Mhm.

So how much are you making now, Samuel?

So currently my past few checks now and now I'm in the car business, I sell used vehicles.

Um I work for I work with a company that sell used vehicles and I've been I've been racking in somewhere around 35 to 4 grand a month. Okay.

Does your wife work?

I'm sorry. Does your wife work?

No, not currently. >> with the kids.

Correct. Oh, and she's pregnant, she's on the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha. So you're so you're 4 grand a month. Okay, so that's during the slow season. Where do you see yourself March, April, May, June, July? What do you think you could get that up to?

Um well, so obviously we're here on the edge of tax season, things are going to kick in. I'll probably start racking back in 8 to 10k. >> Okay, okay. For you know, the tell you know, for the next four months.

>> that's usually higher because you guys went into forbearance.

So we we're food, shelter, utilities, transportation, that's our that's our key. So keeping the house current is going to be your number one priority, okay? And then these this car, the car with the loan, are you underwater on that?

I am I am almost 60 days past due on it.

It's it's the family vehicle, it's a Suburban. >> Okay, okay. Wait, if you sold it I don't want to I don't want it to be repoed because then you got nothing. So what if you sold it? >> that's that's the problem, I can't sell it. I'm um I I kind of packed in a some

negative equity on top of it. I I have tried to sell it.

Um I have tried to reach out to the bank to you know Okay, how much Totally, how much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it? Uh 62,000.

>> 52?

62. >> 62. Okay, 62. If you were to sell it,

I'm just wondering, what what could you get for it? 20, 30? Maybe 50. 50? Okay,

okay, all right, we're we're going somewhere. I would get rid of it. The fact that you already can't make this payment, okay, Samuel, you sell it to an individual, get it out because if you keep stop if you're not able to keep making these payments, they're going to just take it and then you're going to have $62,000 and then they're going to sell it for nothing on their end and you're going to owe so much. So I would sell this >> I do that with the bank holding the title?

Well, you could well, you're going to have to take a small personal loan, probably from a credit union. So I would take >> Go get the $12,000 >> yes, and I'd be a one car family for a season. That's going to be so uncomfortable, but getting this taken care of. So so so see if you can go get a $12,000 loan, pay the difference, get rid of the Suburban and stay current on the mortgage.

That is priority.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Here [music] in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from 1:00 to 4:00, so you can come in and visit us, which people do from all over the country, whether they're driving through Nashville or they make it a destination

stop. So we have we do the show live

with some glass and we always have a great audience out there that comes and sits and there's free cookies and coffees, teas, all of it. And then >> [music] >> in the lobby we also have the debt-free stage. So whenever there is anyone standing on the stage, we know it is time to celebrate. So welcome you guys.

Thank you. >> Thank you. Absolutely, we have Nick and Renee from Chicago and they are here and

made the big trip down because you are

debt-free. Yes, we are.

Amazing, [laughter] you guys. Okay, so how much debt did you pay off? So we paid a total of $160,811

or $160,811.63.

Oh my gosh, how long did that take you?

6 years. 6 years. Amazing. Okay, and

what kind of debt was it?

Student loans, credit card, but mostly student loans. Okay, so consumer debt.

[clears throat] >> Car, credit card, student everything.

>> Everything. >> Just the life. Just the life. Oh my gosh. Okay, so 6 years ago, what started

changing for you guys? What made you start chucking down at $160,000 in debt? Well, we were on our way to our honeymoon and the drive down to Hilton Head was we were listening to Ramsey.

>> [laughter] >> So that was that was our What a what a way to start the honeymoon, guys. I know. So I started >> going we were at Waterfront Church at the time and I they were offering Financial Peace and so we did that along with our premarital counseling and so I drank the Kool-Aid 100%. We got married.

We drove to Hilton Head and so I was like, yeah, let's listen, let's do this.

And he never said let's take a break from this. So we just kept listening to one after the other and and so that's just what we did. But we've done Financial Peace every single year just to make sure we were staying motivated. >> you went through it a lot. >> So we've gone through it a lot, but it helped us stay motivated. One I mean, all the way because the majority of this was my student loans and

that was really hard. So like going through the Financial Peace every year, it just helped us stay on point. It helped us stay focused. Um What was your degree in?

I did a bachelor in psychology and then I have a master of education and science. Yeah, >> So how much how much were you guys making during that time? I'm going to ask you that earlier, but with that degree and everything. Yeah, so we started at $106,829

and then we ended with well, currently we're at about $131,000.

Okay, okay, amazing, amazing.

Oh my gosh, you guys. >> Okay, can can I can I jump in here? I have a question for you.

I've never asked this I don't think of a couple ever.

All right, bring it on. I >> [laughter] >> I I would love for you to talk to the couples out there where one of the people in that couple

feels [snorts] like the majority of the debt that we're trying to both pay off, I brought into this thing. Yeah. And

there's some guilt there, there's some shame there. Like talk about how that felt knowing 4 years in this guy married

me and we're still not eating out cuz we're still trying to pay this stupid thing off, right? >> Right. Yeah. I'm I'm Yes, you nailed it on on in one. So, it has been super challenging and Emotionally challenging. All challenging. Yes. And so, when we before we got married, we had talked about what does your debt look like? You know, and he's telling me he's like, "Oh, I've got a lot." Oh, yeah. Oh, no.

>> [laughter] >> And I was like, "Oh, gosh." Cuz I'm just thinking of mine. Totally. Yes. And he's like, "About $12,000." >> [laughter] >> Oh. And then I thought, "Well, this is the end of this." You know, so Um then I told him mine and and he was just like, "Okay, let's do this." >> What was it? 120, 130? 130, 133?

>> 133. Yeah, okay. Okay. And so, he was just like, "Okay. All right, let's do this." And so, he every time I I would get super upset or have a challenge or just like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm the reason we're still in this. I'm And he's just like, "Nope, this is ours. We're doing this together. We're in it." >> man, brother. He He is. I've got a really good guy. So, he's been in it with me from from day one and it's

>> So, what So, what do you tell that person listening who doesn't want to come clean about what they owe, is afraid of saddling their their spouse with this with this journey? I I would say I you have to be honest and open about it because that's what made So, we've been married 6 years and that's what's made this marriage so strong. I mean, we had a lot of other elements. We you know, we We had a lot of other things moving forward in this.

Like we were doing IVF through this. We were paying cash for that.

it it was just hard, but knowing that he was there with me, he was supporting me, that we were supporting each other.

We learned how to say no to each other, which was amazing. Yeah.

You know, it the the best way I can put it is trust, open-mindedness, and to

love as unconditionally as you can. Mhm.

It's beautiful. >> It's a hard It's a hard thing to It's a hard thing to do. >> day. Yeah. It's making a choice.

>> But it's a hard thing to do and it's a hard thing to receive. Yes. It's both, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Okay, so for you guys on this journey, who [clears throat] out of the two of you, who's more of the spender, who's more of the saver, who's more of the free spirit? Like would you say you had like different personalities through it or were you all pretty honed in together? It sounds like you were pretty similar from the way you're talking, but I'm curious.

I think I may have become more of the spender now. I don't know.

>> [laughter] >> Nick's like, "I can do this. I can spend some." Yeah. Yeah, he's good at spending. Good. [laughter] I love it. I love it. So, what would you say was the um the hardest part of this journey? I mean, we kind of talked about some of just like the long you know, the marathon and all life that was in there.

But was there a part that was like, "Whoa, that is tough." So, after all this the smaller debt and then it became the student loan debt and then it was that time when we were going through the IVF. That was That was a challenge. >> Mhm. But we had to break it down into

like little victories. Um making this amount this month or this amount every quarter, you know, whatever it is. It's great. >> And just and you know, celebrate those little ones. I love it. [clears throat] Yeah. Okay, so what would you say the key of getting out of debt is if someone were to ask?

Be diligent and just just do it all in.

All or nothing. The The budget has to I mean, as everyone often says, the budget is essential.

Um learning how to say no and we're both people pleasers, so that was really challenging, I think especially in the beginning. Um so, yeah, that's what I would say to that also. It's amazing, you guys. Oh.

So, how does it feel?

Fantastic. >> [laughter] >> It's a huge It's It's a huge burden off.

Yes. And it's just so funny cuz we have old cars. So, like Christmas came and both between the two cars we still had over $3,500 of car repair we just did. So, it's like It's not over, you know. [laughter] It doesn't just end, so know that. Yes, that's right. Life is still So, life is still moving. Yeah, but we made it down to Nashville in 8 hours. Yes, there you go. >> [laughter] >> And if you get out of here in time, you'll miss the snowpocalypse that's on the >> leaving. Yes, we will.

Oh. [laughter] Well, you guys are amazing. Absolutely incredible. What an incredible journey you've been on and we so appreciate you sharing your story and just inspiring people, right? I mean, cuz you hear 160,000 and it is it's a big number, but yet people do it. People are on their journey. So, some people maybe starting, some people maybe the very end and they're hearing this and it's the motivation they need. So, we are so excited, so happy to celebrate you all.

All right. So, we have Nick and Renee

from Chicago, Illinois. They paid off $160,000 in debt in 6 years making 106 to 131,000

a debt-free scream. All right. 3 2 1

WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

>> [screaming] [applause and music] >> LOVE IT. LOVE IT. THE INTENSITY. YOU can feel it.

[applause] It's still It's still one of my favorite parts of this job. Just the relief. Man, that is Very few people can do something for 6 years. Whoo. It's a lot. [music] Long time. It's a long time. >> It's a long time. They just kept showing up. It's awesome. >> chipping away each little bit at a time.

Oh my gosh, Nick and Renee, absolutely [music] incredible. Absolutely incredible.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions.com/smartvestor.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah [music] 26:3.

I will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast because [music] they trust in you.

Maya Angelou said, "You may not control all the events that have happened to you, but you can decide

not to be reduced [music] by them." It's good. Very empowering.

All right, let's go to Susie in Charlotte.

Hi Susie, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel and John. I'm so excited to speak with you both. I appreciate you taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help today?

I'll ask my question and then I can give you a little more context if you'd like.

>> Okay. Um my question is, when we're ready to retire, is it a good move for

my husband and I to move money out of the stock stock market into more conservative funds within our IRA

um for withdrawing that money?

So, >> here's a Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, um you know, depending on who you talk to in the financial planning world, some people go super conservative and they you know, they suggest annuities, um

CDs, like putting your money in. But what we I mean, but honestly, what we who we talk to from the financial planning perspective and who we more tend to lean towards is leaving it in because for retirement, let's say you retire at 65, you know, you may still have 20 years of your life left and you

would miss out on so much growth because a lot of the retirement, you may not even touch the actual nest egg. You'll just be actually living off of what it's making every year and you're going to make nothing in a CD or annuity, like all of that. Even though it feels safe over such a long period of time of retirement, you're still going to make so much keeping it in.

Yeah, our financial advisor had said that his rule of thumb or his thought

process was that you could spend about 4% of your retirement savings each year

and he said that bond markets money markets and bonds were paying about that and that as we got closer to retirement, we could move some of our investments into that. Yeah, right. >> Inside our IRA, not in not annuities or

anything, but leave it in the IRA, just a different >> a lot of and a lot of financial planners do that cuz they're it's such a conservative rate. Like in fact, I think Dave even says you could take out up to 6 to 8, you know, percent. Like, so So, he So, I would say like if Dave Ramsey was sitting here, he would be way more on the liberal side of this, meaning like leave it in. And you can actually probably take out more than 4%, but a financial planner is going to be more on the conservative end.

because Yeah, cuz I mean at some point you may not even keep up with inflation, you know, depending on what these money market accounts do. They're pretty good right now, um but over time we haven't always seen that rate of return. And so, keeping them in the markets, you're going to be making so much money. I mean, on average you're making, you know, 10 to 11%. Some years, I mean, last year was like 20-something percent. It was crazy. So,

you would miss out on so much growth pulling your money out.

Okay, that's great. Thank you.

>> absolutely. Thanks for the call.

All right, let's go to Is it Angela in

Dallas? Hi, Angela. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hello. Hello. I have a quick question. I feel like we're like best friends, so I'm so excited to talk to y'all. >> Oh my gosh. No, you're our BFF. We're so excited to talk to you.

Okay, I have a question. I just wanted some clarity about sinking funds. So, I was listening to the podcast the other day with Jade and Kim, and she had mentioned that sinking funds are intended for expenses that you cannot cover on a monthly basis, or at least that's what I understood her to say, and it kind of like changed my whole life. So, I I I feel like I'm kind

of a free spirit when it comes to spending, but I'm also like a budgeter like no one's business. So, I have a sinking fund for clothes, haircuts, oil changes, like tire changes, and Christmas. But, um I do find that we're kind of

dipping into the sinking funds on a monthly basis cuz we kind of need more funds, and so I'm thinking I might be creating sinking funds for things that might shouldn't be and should just be calculating for that in my regular checking account. >> Mhm. And then, um it should be like saving for things like Christmas or tire changes. Does that make sense? Yes, it does.

>> elaborate on that a little bit for me?

Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, yeah, usually sinking funds are for a specific The way I've looked at it, and I think people can use them different ways. So, George Campbell probably has like 20 sinking funds, let's be honest.

So, I'm sure everyone probably tends [laughter] to do it differently. I don't think there's necessarily like a right or wrong. But, for me, the most effective way that I think in order to keep a monthly budget and have sinking funds is that sinking funds have an end date. It's almost more like Or for me, it's like a goal where I'm like, "Okay, I know Christmas is coming. I need to put X amount away for Christmas or um

a sinking fund for a trip coming up.

Hey, we we're going to go to Disney next summer." Whatever thing is, let's save up a little bit at a time. Now, what some people will do is they will roll over their amount in their budget for ongoing expenses, just like clothes, okay? So, like I don't know, you get 100 bucks for clothes a month, and you're like, "Okay, I didn't spend that, so I want 200 for next month cuz I didn't spend it, so I want to roll it over." So, a great way to track that is using sinking funds within the EveryDollar app, and people will do that.

But, that's more of a discussion of does the budget end with the When the When the month is done, what I would say is if you're in baby steps 1 through 3, and the month is done and you have money you have not spent, I would use that cash towards debt or towards saving up for an emergency fund.

with you rolling that over, you know, and using it for the next month if you want, like out to eat, you know, at your restaurants or your um your clothes. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah, no, that that makes a lot of sense. >> like you're using the words sinking fund for like four or five different things.

That's it. Sounds like it sounds like semantics.

Yeah, I kind of feel like if I was to like create a word picture for it, I feel like a squirrel a little bit. Like, I'm like tucking a little here and a little here, and then I'm like pulling from this, and it's like I feel like we might not be getting the momentum that we should be getting. So, when she said that, I was like, "I should put it in my checking account and like you know, go, "Okay, I know that when the season changes in April, I'm going to need clothes." You know, like so, that's that.

And then, I know we're going to get haircuts at this You know what I mean? And so, >> But, those are budget line items.

Yes. And what I would challenge you is like if you if you know like when the season changes, I'm going to {quote} need clothes, I would challenge you to be specific for a season.

I'm going to need two pair of long pants and a new jacket. Not I'm going to need $600 to just go to the store and see Right? And so, if you {quote} need clothes, then be specific about what you need, and then reverse engineer that like that's a sinking fund. I need 600 bucks, so I need 50 bucks a month for the next however many months to get that number. Cuz I know what I'm going to go buy.

And that that specificity will force you

to say, "Okay, this is a budget item, or this needs to go to debt, or this is a sinking fund. I want to buy a car, and it's 30,000 bucks. I don't have 30,000 extra dollars this month or any month.

So, I have to put this much money away every month. That's a sinking fund." But, like I need haircuts, um I'm going to need glasses.

Like, those aren't sinking funds. Those are just budget line items.

Okay. Does that help? Okay, perfect. Yes, yeah, it does.

Thank you, all. [clears throat] >> Yeah, you're so welcome. Yeah, and and again, it's it is, you know, as you need, right? I mean, yeah, whatever you whatever you want to do.

Um cuz in the EveryDollar app, we have the funds function in order for sinking funds. But, also, if you have the EveryDollar app, um oh, if you're using desktop, over to the left-hand side, there is actually a goals area, like you can click goals, and that's what I like. I actually like to use that function better than sinking funds because there's for me the end date is big, where I'm like, "Okay, I know this is happening now." Then, I can do your what you say, reverse engineer what I need to put away each month for that specific category.

I like to think in my head like, "You know what? Um Battle of the Bands is next year. I'm going to need a new guitar.

So, I should probably just put a whole bunch of Right? And then, I'm going to go walk around, and I'm going to buy a bunch There's something about saying, "Okay, one, nobody needs a new guitar, but I want to buy this one. It's going to cost this much dollars." And so, if I'm going to do this budget with integrity, which I don't always do, but like if I'm going to do this right, I'm going to get that dollar amount and go to the store and get that guitar, and I'm going to walk out the door. Totally.

Yeah, that it that it is so specific, right? And >> Otherwise, it becomes kind of the shopping process becomes a hobby, and that's how I get myself back into old John trouble. Old John trouble.

Continues on. But, I like it, and I don't like the whole, "I need two pairs of pants and pair of shorts." Just go shop. Go enjoy.

Just live live in the moment, Angela.

Live in the moment. >> Must be nice. Oh my gosh, y'all.

Must be nice. All right. Well, thanks to uh everyone in the booth. Great [music] show, John. Always fun. And thank you, America, for listening. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial [music] peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 112. Money Issues Aren't the Problem, They’re the Symptom | August 18, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] This is the Ramsay Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships. And we are so glad that you have joined us today alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman and the phone number for you to jump in today is882552258255225

[Music] get you in the conversation. You ready to go partner? >> Let's get it. >> Beth is up in Texas. Beth, how can we help you today?

>> Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Um I'm having a little conflict with my husband and I wanted your input on the situation. >> Sure. Um, for a little background, uh, when we first started the baby steps, we were both working full-time and we decided to take a small allowance and put the rest on the joint account and pay the bills and, you know, do the snowball. Um, I physically paid the bills because he'd been kind of inconsistent before. So, over the time, it just kind of became my job. Um, about

two and a half years ago, I became totally disabled and now all I get is a social security uh, disability check.

But his income grew and he never told me. And I just found out that he's been keeping $2,600 a month of income that I didn't know he was making. >> Now, 400 of that does go to a second retirement account. He's already retired once and gets a retirement check. And when I brought it up and tried to discuss all this, he refused to deposit or put any of the extra money toward the bills and just absolutely refused to discuss it. >> How did you find out? Mhm.

>> Well, I did what you said and when I had, you

know, became disabled, I called my creditors and started working with them and I was working with the IRS to forgive a tax debt and so I needed a

copy of his latest payub and I can read

a payub and first one I'd seen in like 12 years and discovered what he had been doing and he admitted it and when I asked him why he was doing it and didn't tell me he had been making more money and more side jobs. He said, "Because if I told you, you'd take all my money." >> Interesting. So, what was he spending it on? What I mean, you said the 400 to retirement, but is there anything to show for this money, or was it just the drive-through?

>> He has Yeah, he has about $200 in personal bills that he pays, bills that he said, you know, I'm going to take this on, but I'm going to pay for it out of my money.

>> Uh, almost 23 years.

>> And you've had separate accounts the entire time? Well, no, we have the joint account. We just we this is a a second marriage for both of us. So, we we had our own personal accounts when we came into the relationship. So, we just used our personal accounts for our allowance and then all the rest of the money was put into the joint. But at the time, I

had a different, you know, knowledge of what his income was. And as it grew, he >> But you weren't But you weren't seeing the money in the joint account.

I Yeah, he was having I thought the whole thing was being auto deposited, but what he was doing was he was splitting some to go into his personal account, some to go into a savings account, and the rest to go into the >> My my partner here is about ready to pop here. What's What are you thinking? >> Well, I I wanted to make sure I understood both sides of the story, but you kind of laid it out for me in that, you know, you said you each have individual accounts, but then you have this joint account, right?

Did I hear that right? >> Right. Yeah. Yeah, the joint account is where we put all supposedly all the money.

>> But there's there's there's a crack there.

you've you've eliminated transparency when you said my check goes into my account first and then I am being trusted to then put the full amount into this joint account or to put the amount that I say into this joint account because my question for you then would be does he have the login and passwords to your personal account and do you have the login and account to his personal

account >> and did you before all this happened.

>> No. >> Okay. So, that's where I say um the

point of combining the point of combining finances is not just to say and we have this joint account that we put some money in. The point of it is complete transparency and trust. That's that's at the core of why we do that, >> right? >> And so that's that's where there was a hiccup in this plan. And what I think

what I think without you intending it and maybe without him intending it uh are two things. Number one, when you say

when you when you both agree to eliminate that transparency, then it also invites the ability to hide things because >> Yeah. And I mean, if you can't trust your husband, who can you trust? >> But you have said you have said that you don't trust each other because you opened this by saying this is our second marriage and which means there's a caveat there. Because it's our second marriage, we don't trust each other as much.

Because it's our second marriage, we've decided to do things a little different. because it's our second marriage, we have our own accounts.

>> Yeah, I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? I was just mentioning Yeah, I was just mentioning it was our it was our second marriage as an explanation as to why we had our own account.

>> Exactly. And and I'm agreeing with you, but what I really wanted to ask you what I really wanted to ask you, Beth, was the thing that you said uh when you asked him about it and he said, "Well, I'm afraid uh she'll take all of it." >> Yeah. Is that is there any truth to that? Good or bad? >> You'll take Well, okay. So Dave said

gazelle and I am like, you know, uber gazelle and maybe I was guilty of being a little bit too frisky on the go down

really fast. >> Okay, >> you know, I might plead guilty to that.

Okay. >> But um >> so and I'm not saying don't get me wrong, it's no excuse for him to have >> been dishonest with you, but I think there's a little What I'm saying is I think there's room for both of you guys to budge on this. Um what I was listening for Beth is a bad guy.

>> You know, I I'm listening to see is this a bad guy? Is this guy a guy who's really disrespecting her? Is this a guy who um you know that we need to put in his place? But I don't Ken, what do you think? I don't think so. Well, he's not

>> I don't think he may be a bad guy, but he's a bad husband right now.

>> He >> So, what's your So, here's my question, Beth. What is your question for us?

Because this is pretty awful stuff.

>> This has got to be shaking you. So, how can we help today? Because this is a massive marriage problem that involves very intentional therapy. Yes, >> 100%. >> Well, well, when I became disabled, you know, it was my job to to pay the bills, run the household. I take care of everything. When I became disabled two and a half years ago, that did not stop.

And so trying to manage the same bills and reconcile the ones that we couldn't pay and dealing with creditors, that fell on me. And I've been very very sick for two and a half years. And so um I

just in in anger when I discovered this,

I told him I said, you know, I tried to discuss it and I said, you know, I'm not going to take all your money, but we agreed on an allowance. And since I went on social security disability, I felt guilty taking allowance. So I put my entire check. >> And so here here Beth, here is where I want to jump in because this is where the issue is. Again, I want to be very clear. What he did was wrong. He should not have uh treated the money that way.

He should not have been duplicitous in that way. However, uh there is a an

unhealthiness in how the money is being handled also on your end. And I can tell you adults don't like being treated like

children. And so for him, he I could

understand being feel feeling like, hey, I go to work all day. I give my money over to my spouse and they give me an allowance and I've been busting my butt all day. People don't like that. So what we would suggest and what I would suggest here is you guys really do have to be on one accord with this, which is we both work.

We decide together how our money is being spent. We're going to decide what goes on to bills. We are going to have everything in one joint account. Not accounts off to the side, but we get paid into the same account so we can all see it.

And then we decide uh how much Beth are you going to spend on fun? How much is he going to spend on fun? And we see it together. And if you Beth choose not to spend your fund money, that's your choice.

He's still a man and wants to feel like he can. >> Yeah. I I see your side, but I also think that this is a marriage problem and we got to find out pretty quick if he's willing to fix this marriage problem. Both of you come to the table, own both of your stuff and see if we can have a clear path forward.

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[Music]

>> All right, let's go to Ryan who's joining us now in Mississippi. Ryan, how can we help today?

>> Hi, Ken. Hi, Jade. How are y'all doing?

Great.

>> Good. Um, I just I feel like I got a complicated question, but I'll try to keep it simple. So, I'm a traveling preacher. Um, I hold revival throughout

the country, and I also hold down a full-time job. I do probably on average

probably one revival um, a month on average. So, that

requires a lot of travel. I'm putting roughly 50,000 miles a year at least on my vehicles and I'm caught in a cycle of

going upside down on cars. I'd really like to get rid of having the car payment all together because it's holding me back from other financial goals. Um but I can't seem like I my

last vehicle I got it paid for. As soon as I got it paid for, my plan was to drive it until I saved it for another.

But it broke down. Had to replace the motor. Long story short, I wound up going in debt on another car because I had to have a reliable vehicle. So, I just wondering what do y'all suggest I do to um to just kind of break this

cycle. >> Okay. So, you do one of these uh revival

meetings a month is your average. So, that's 12 >> on average. There's some there's some months that I may not have anything and then I may have two or three things crammed in one month, but on average, you know, it's >> all right. So, that tells me Okay. Okay.

So, that tells me just I'm going somewhere with this. So, that tells me we can work off of 12 travel events a

year. Correct.

>> Close to that probably. >> All right. >> Plus the full-time. Didn't you say you hold down a job, too? >> Yeah. Yeah. But we're talking about these >> I do. So, when I'm when I'm home and I'm not traveling, I I work a job that brings in roughly 50,000 a year.

>> Okay. You're making 50,000 a year there.

What how are you getting paid? Are you getting paid through offerings? And then how much? Give me a number. And again, we're working off a 12 because the solution I'm going to propose here, uh,

it doesn't matter if it's 12 of these or 15, but you're somewhere in the 12 to 15 range. We've established that. Okay. So, how are you getting paid for these revival meetings?

>> Um, it varies, but you know, based on church size and what they're able to do.

I don't require anything, but they generally take care of me, you know, my travel expenses, and I usually have some left over. Um, but I'm also while I'm gone doing that, I'm not getting paid from my regular job. >> Give us the average. How much are you making per weekend roughly?

>> Probably 800 to a,000 for a week. Uh,

>> and that's not just the extra.

>> That's not just the extra, right? That's them taking care of you with food and whatever else you might need.

>> That's usually the offering. Most of the time they will cover your food and lodging. >> Okay. I have a very simple solution. I I've been trying to kind of play this out. I'm just going to go ahead and jump ahead because we're getting distracted here. You just need to be flying to these places. I I if if you're making somewhere between $800 to $1,000 on this

thing and they're paying your expenses instead of you driving all over creation, which if you have a Monday through Friday job and you've got to drive from wherever you are in Mississippi to Ohio and you have to take off time for work, that's just not being very smart. And you're going to these things. These are weekend deals.

Correct. Uh most of them are going to run all week long. They're going to run like a Sunday through Friday. >> Well, this is just not >> Some of them will be three days. >> Okay. So, my So, here's Okay. So, if it's all week and I'm missing time, so I'm eating into my vacation time and I've got my $50,000 a year job and and

let's just say 12* 800 is 9600, right?

Is that right? Is that my math? Sure.

you know, for all of this wear and tear on the car, and I know this is a ministry thing for you, and I'm not in any way trying to talk you out of it, but the way you're going about this doesn't make a lot of sense to put all this mileage on the car.

>> Most of the time, I also take my wife and and kids. Does that play into that?

>> It might. It might need to play into it.

>> I wouldn't. This has got to be more efficient. This is basically you are bivocational. Would you would you agree with that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, if it's a if I'm bivocational, I can't have one side of the equation pulling me down financially. Now, we I could have gone another path and I because I know my partner's going to go this direction.

You didn't have to go into debt for a car. This whole idea that I have to go into debt and all this kind of thing, you don't have to do that. What you've got to do a better job is is that if I'm going to go get paid to preach, then that needs to be a better economic model. Now, I'm going to tell you something.

I know your model cuz I grew up in a small Baptist church. My dad's a pastor, retired now, and we had guys like you come in.

>> you have to start to ask yourself, is that the best play or is it better for me to then fill pulpits on the weekend,

which is also a play where you're an interim pastor and you can hold down a job plus preach and make money. And so

I'm challenging you that the way you started the call and I want Jade to come in and take over here on the money piece, but what I heard was a guy who felt like I'm in prison to my ministry.

And I think that's faulty thinking. And there is a way for you to fill that vocational ministry desire and not have

it penalize you financially. So yeah, I wouldn't take my wife and kids. That's that's more expenses. Uh I wouldn't drive everywhere. I'd have people fly me in. They're planning far enough in advance that they can get you a pretty reasonable ticket and it should be less than $800. You're not going to California and doing revivals. I know that. So, I just I want to challenge you

to rework your model and do it in a way

that is actually financially advantageous, not something that pulls you down. >> Um >> Okay. >> Yeah, I I I agree with Ken 100% on this.

Um, I think you do need to get more efficient because part of part of how

can I say this in a way that doesn't sound judgmental cuz I'm not judging you at all. But part of that integrity that you're preaching from and teaching from, there is a financial component to that and we want that to feel consistent across our life. Uh, I think you will feel better having dealt with this and making sure first let me make sure my house is in order. make sure that I'm not leaving my family in debt, putting us in a financially precarious situation.

Does that make sense? And that way there's that that that firm footing across the board.

>> So get out of debt, >> right? >> So let's write the ship. Let's let's get back in line with wait a second. Maybe

the next couple calls I take I say, "Hey, here's the deal. I can't do a full week. I can do a weekend.

>> Um, and here's what I'm going to require. >> And >> can I follow Can I use a follow-up question? >> Sure. >> So, okay. So, the the debt that I'm in now, I want to ask a question about the best way to go about getting out of that. So, the vehicle has 52,000 mi and

it uh I owe 33 on it. I bought it. When

I when I got it, I was not upside down on it when I went into it. But now, >> because of the miles I put on it, I'm already 7,000 upside down.

>> Okay. So 7,000 upside down.

>> Should I should I should I sell it and try to get out of debt or should I try to pay it off early and continue driving it? >> Well, let's figure that whether we can pay it off early because if we think you can get this thing paid off in a year and a half, two years, then I'd probably keep it. But it depends on what other debt you have. Do you have any other debt? >> Just my house. >> Oh, just the house. Okay. And that's it.

No credit cards, no student loans?

>> No. >> Okay. Then I if I were you uh making 50,000, does your wife make anything?

>> No, she's stay at home mom.

>> How many kids?

>> Three. >> How old are they?

>> I have twins that are about to be 12 and I have a 9-year-old daughter.

>> Okay. She needs to be bringing in an income, especially with you doing this.

>> Even if it's just for a short season until you guys get this 33,000 paid off because for now, if you are going to do more driving, I agree with Ken that you should try to fly to more to more of these. But in the interim, if you are doing more driving, it could be a good idea to keep this car and just pay it off quickly. And if your wife can pick up a,000 or 2,000 bucks a month, you guys can do that very quickly. And I would suggest that.

Mhm. I really I'm I'm going to tell you this and again my my dad does this. He's retired but he is a interim pastor and so he fills churches where they're looking to replace somebody uh that's left. They're looking for senior pastor.

I think right now at this season I'd press pause on the current revival rhythm. I don't think it makes sense for you and I don't think you're being a good steward.

you're making uh five days a week 800

bucks. That's not great, man. So, I I think >> I make that I make that aside from so even being gone.

>> Uh, you know, >> I get it. I'm not changing my opinion.

I'm not changing my opinion. I think you need to rework what you're doing because it's not working for you.

>> And then you figure out how can I make money doing ministry, but I'm filling interim roles while being at home. I pay my car off. Mama needs a part-time job at least helping out right now. And then you dig out. You know, listen, you know the scripture on this. So, o you got to eat, you know what you're cooking.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. Did you know that twothirds of Americans will die without a will?

That seems crazy to me. I if you asked me that um point blank, I would have never guessed that. That that surprises me. But then nothing surprises me anymore.

But here's what happens. When you die without a will, you're inviting the court, lawyers, and the public into the most personal part of your life. Uh Howard Hughes, probably the most eccentric billionaire uh of modern times, died in April of 1976 without a will. Over 600 people came forward claiming interest in his fortune.

legal cousins. >> Oh my gosh, >> that's funny uh and sad at the same time. So, we want to challenge you to create your will in the month of August.

Takes less than five minutes. You can find out if an online will works for you at ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz.

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uh August is will month. Wilmont.

>> Remember Fred Flintstone when he call Wilmont? >> Will I miss Fred Flintstone? I will tell you this. U you know, we work with a lot of young people, >> you know.

>> Yeah. >> And uh James, this true story. I made a Fred Flintstone reference in a meeting recently with several 20somes and they looked at me like I had horns growing out my head >> and I'm like, if you don't know who Barney Rubble is, you haven't lived. Cuz Barney was the best friend in the history of television.

>> It's probably on YouTube. If you don't know the Flintstones, go check it out.

>> Anthony is joining us now in Kentucky.

Anthony, how can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, I appreciate you guys taking my call. Um, I u recently lost everything.

Um, my ex committed domestic violence in

another state and um I had to flee with

my our one-year-old son. Um, so I'm a

single father. Um, >> so sorry, man. >> It's been about it's been about um 3 weeks since I've been back home and I thought I would have help from my family. And um I have

one aunt that watches him while I work and that's it. My uh mom uh came around

one morning. I was at her house uh talking about how I owe her three grand from when my son was born. She made me buy uh the car seat that she bought him for his birthday. Um then um uh my cousin's been um just lying about

me saying that I gave up custody of my son to her and um everything. So I've basically been on my own since I've been back down here. Um I um I just uh I got help from my

church. Um they uh put us in a hotel

room. They um took me around to uh get

me a job. I I'm a server now at a local

restaurant. >> Good. >> Um and uh I uh recently I maxed out um

student loans. I'm going I start school on Monday. Um and uh I I just I don't know what to do.

Like I'll >> Well, here's what I want you to do.

Here's what I want you to do. Okay? I literally want you right now to take a deep breath. You don't have to do it in the phone, but I want you to take a deep breath. >> Okay?

>> Okay. >> All right. Now, let's let's just start walking through this. So, why are you

starting school? What do what are we doing? Why are we going to school?

Honestly, it's uh the only way that I

could see that I could get a large lump

sum of money to get a car and a place as

soon as possible. >> Okay, so hold on. >> I I have an interest in going to school.

Like I I I'm going for something that I I'm going for psychology. I I have a a

huge interest in it. I want to do this for my life. You pulled out more than what you would need to make sure you have >> You took out payment.

>> Yeah, I I took it's student loans. It's financial aid.

>> Okay. >> How much?

>> Um I took out 9500

for the whole school year. I got 7,300

for my PEL grant where I'm a single father. Um so I'll have about 16 split

into two semesters. And um like after

tuition and books and all that, it'll come out to around 6,000 a semester for

this semester and next semester.

>> How are you going to go to school and work enough to be able to take care of your son and find a place to live? Have you thought through this?

>> Yeah. Um I I'm doing online school. Um

there are only prerequisites right now.

So um I uh I work in the evenings. I

work 4 to 10 and my aunt is watching him basically exclusively um while I'm at work. >> Okay. >> And then um >> uh just I want to see what I can do like

grind out as much as I can school work, get ahead as much as I can and just save as much money as I can.

>> Okay. Well, you've already pulled out the loan, but but for for the future, can we just quickly cover the fact that that's not the way to get ahead financially? Because had you called us a

week ago before you did this, I would have said, "Let's press pause on the psychology degree and let's get our life

stable." And I'm loving that you got into a local church and the church is helping you, but taking out a loan for living expenses um is not the answer.

And so I would not do this much further.

I I want Jade to kind of jump in here and we'll walk you out of this deal, but is there just quickly? Is there a specific question you had for us today?

because I understand your your your situation and it's tough but before she covers that and going forward is there anything else that you were specifically asking >> just what what are my next steps like now that I have taken out the loan now that like just what can I do from here to give my son the best possible outcome from this? >> Perfect. All right. >> So I I really want Ken to hit the work part because right now you said you're working from 4 to 10.

How much are you bringing home? What's your income right now?

>> I right now I average about 200 good days. I make a little over $300 a day.

>> Okay. And what's that break down to a month? Right. Quick.

>> Um so I just started Wednesday. I don't have that like off the top of my head, but um I'm I'm making >> So like around 4,000 around >> around Yeah. >> Okay. So the first things first is you're in the hotel right now.

So, first things first is we need to say, "Okay, what do we need with our 4,000 bucks a month? Where's an apartment near me? I want you to do some apartment homework and find out what's near you that you can get 4,000 bucks a month." >> Okay? So, uh where you are, I'm not sure, but see what you can find.

Even if it means um you know, finding somebody at that church that's maybe renting out, you know, rental space, room over the garage, get really, really creative and don't just take the first option that comes to you. So, that's thing one, finding a place to live. Um, and then you've got the support of your aunt. And I want to I want you to really talk with her and and make sure she understands what she's she's signed up for, which is, hey, life's going to be tough for me for a while.

I need to know I can count on you. And really make sure you're building into that relationship because she's your lifeline right now.

communication with her, making sure she understands what she's in for. Um, and then after that, I'm inclined right now

because I think you did the school thing out of fear and out of like trying to find a way out. >> I don't think you have a clear path there yet. If I were you, I'd turn around and give that money right back.

>> Yeah, I was going to ask if you could do that. I didn't know. >> Pay it right off. Take the money, turn around, pay it right off, and be done because you haven't given it to anybody yet.

And that's not the way that you want to buy a car. It's going to cause you so much headache cuz you're making an income. You just need to give it a chance to play out. That's right.

>> So, give that money back and then Ken is going to set you up with when you're able to decide if you even need to go to school. >> Uh, Kelly, let's give him uh Anthony, we're going to give you my book, the uh Get Clear Career Assessment, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Take 18 to 20 minutes on this and let's let's let's get some results and start ideulating on what a path looks like in the near future, not right away. But here's the deal.

The reason I told you take a deep breath is you've been through a lot, but I can tell you you've landed well. And the ant is a saint. And now it's doing exactly what Jade said. And let's work as much as we can.

I mean, as much as we can. I love giving the money back. Pause all education.

because you need to heal. And getting healthy and stable will allow you to get clear and confident on your future. Hang on. We're going to take care of you.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, let's go to Christy who's joining us now in Texas. Christy, how can we help?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> This is Christie. >> Yes, I know. Hi. How are you?

>> Thank you. I'm I'm not doing too well, but thank you for taking my phone call.

>> Okay, we're here for you. What's going on? >> My my husband was not able to be on my

our home loan when when we bought our home, so his mother volunteer volunteered herself and cosign. So, her and I are on the on the mortgage.

>> He committed suicide in December.

>> Oh. >> So, that put our that put our family in a huge um my son and I were both there when he did it.

>> Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I don't even know what to say.

I couldn't I couldn't work for months.

Um my son and I are both in therapy. Um I have PTSD. I have complex grief. I have trauma induced psychosis. Um so it's just but I am working. Like I I couldn't work for the first three three and a half months, but I'm doing great now. Like with therapy, therapy is helping so much, but I am working. I am um so with her being on our on our

mortgage. Um I need her to sign off on anything. Um so my mortgage company has been amazing. So they I let them know the exa exactly what happened and they have they have uh they put us in forbbearance for a little bit.

>> Um and then they were putting us in like a loss mitigation where they've decided themselves that they were just going to forgive >> what was owed. I mean the few months that I had owed they were just going to forgive it >> and it was um I just had to sign it. My mother-in-law had to sign it. So this was back in end of March, beginning of April.

So she had to sign it. Um, and so she uh

I sent her the papers a few times. She kept missing the deadline, so I'd have to get them reprinted by the mortgage. I just got a letter from her lawyer yesterday. She's not going to sign them.

>> Why not?

>> I there's there's no reason. Well, the reason from the lawyer was that um they said they don't think that I can make the payments, which I have. I was I was like my husband had actually been depressed that whole year. I was making all the payments. >> What is the payment? It is $2,100 a

month. >> And how much do you earn?

>> I earn between 5,500 and 6,000. That's

that's I mean that's between >> and then now I now I get social security. >> And how much is that?

>> 24,400. >> Okay. Um

so your your the your the mother is it

mother-in-law or your mother? >> Mother. >> So what happens? So I'm tracking.

So what happens? Let's let's just assume we can't change her mind. What What is the arrangement now with the your mortgage company? They know all this.

It seems like they've been very kind to you and they know what you're up against. Have you told them, "Hey, my mother-in-law is not not playing ball and she's not going to sign, >> right?" And they've given me the option to refinance. Of course, him passing away in December. Those few months that I wasn't making any payments, I wasn't making credit card payments.

And the crazy thing is I have I have caught up on most of the credit cards. I paid off any bills that we were behind.

I paid off my >> You said they gave you the opportunity to refinance. That's what we want.

>> So you can get her off the loan.

>> They won't allow me because I don't have a 620 credit score because my credit went down when I wasn't paying bills.

>> Okay. So what's the other option? Sounds like you talked to them. So what are they saying? >> Yeah. Um foreclosure >> and I'm trying to keep my home. I' I've got children. I'm trying to keep my home. What do you have to do to get out of foreclosure?

>> I have to pay whatever I'm behind. How much right now with with all the fees?

It's like 18,000.

>> You have any cash at all?

>> I do, but nothing near that. I mean, and I >> Well, no, no, we're trying to work through this. So, listen, we're trying to work through this. So, I just need I know you're under it right now, but we're just trying to work through this. So, let's go one question at a time. How much cash do you have? about 4,000.

>> Okay. So, we need 14,000.

>> Ne Well, next question. Before we land on this being the right uh option, was there trauma in that house?

>> Trauma? Yes. >> Yeah. He committed suicide in >> Okay. Which is why I'm going to suggest that we sell this house.

>> Yeah. >> You don't need you don't need to live in this house. And this is a trauma-filled house. And right now, it is a major source of stress.

uh you need to sell the house and and then you're free and clear of the mother-in-law, whatever. If there's proceeds that come out of it, you guys split it, go your separate ways and you need to start over and create a new life

that is not inclusive of this house.

>> I'm just afraid that I can't afford to purchase a house like I bought it with two income that you will because here's the thing.

You just got you just got through explaining to me why you can afford a $2,100 a month mortgage and you can.

You're making $8,000 a month now, including the social security. Now, here's the thing. It's going to take some time, but you're rebuilding a life.

You're not It's not like you just pushed pause and now we're pushing play again on a on a fully built life. You're starting over because you've had this major trauma take place. >> Let's look at the numbers, though. Um, and by the way, I'm glad you jumped to that. I was reacting to what you said. I think Jade's right. The best thing for you to do for multiple reasons, emotional and financial, is sell the house. So, I'm with it. Let's play this out. How much could you sell the house for? Have you looked into this?

>> Uh, when we bought it, um, it appraised for 275. I bought it at for 205.

>> Okay. >> But that's not Okay. So, I don't think you know what it's worth today, do you?

>> I don't. No. >> All right. So, here's the deal. Do you have a Do you have a real estate professional that you've already used before and you know and trust? >> I I do and I've reached out to them. I'm waiting to hear back. >> Okay, great. So, here's the deal. So, step one, they tell you what they think the market bears for that. Okay. So, you owe how much on the home?

>> Um, I couldn't tell you that number. I just know what I'm >> Well, you need to go get that number. >> That's your number one homework is for you to find out what you owe on the house and what it's worth. And then from there, you can find out, okay, if we sell this house for what they say it's worth or somewhere near it. Lowball. I want you to lowball everything so that you're pleasantly surprised.

>> So, so Christy, you don't know the numbers, but let's say that you you said you bought it for 205 how many years ago? >> Um, a year ago. >> Okay. year ago. Okay. So, you're probably going to break even. >> Yeah, you might break even. But here's the thing. You may come away with a little bit of cash. Who knows? I don't know. But you got to get those numbers.

But to So, that helps us there.

>> So, maybe renting is going to be the more I think that's probably the best play for It's fine.

>> Renting is great. Renting is a preparatory phase for you to buy a house. That's what it is. It's time for you to do your research. It's time for you to save up money. And in your case, it's time for you to just have a moment

because when you're renting, do you know what's not your problem, anytime the the

AC breaks, anytime the roof breaks, anything, it's not your problem. And you need a life right now that is very simple with very little problems. And so I think renting is a great option for you right now in the interim. There is a time when you're going to buy a house again and it's going to be a joyfilled time, but right now it's time for healing and it's time for simplification.

That's right. And the numbers that you gave Jade and I, you can easily afford a nice house once you get a down payment. So, it's going to take a little bit of time, but again, you're bringing in plenty of income to afford a decent house in your area. So, be patient.

>> Um, and then you there there's a day coming where you're going to be able to have a nice house. But yeah, the m the mother-in-law thing is toxic.

Jade's 100% right. That's the right play. >> We're We're pulling for you. What you've done is so tough.

>> Thank you guys very much. Thank y'all very much. We're >> We're working through it as best as we can. >> You're doing great. >> I was I was actually considering bankruptcy.

>> I don't cuz you didn't tell us. I mean, is there other debt to speak of? You You told us about the house. What else?

>> Mortgage. >> Oh, this is actually easy. This is >> and a couple of there's like two credit cards that don't have a whole lot cuz I've been paying them down that don't have too much on them, but >> good real estate agents going to help you out of this deal. And make sure you're communicating with the mortgage company.

Go, here's what's going on. We're going to sell the house. It's time to move on. >> They're going to get their money.

They've been great to work with you, but make sure you tie up that end >> and forget the mother-in-law. No more communication on this.

>> There's some bad blood on that deal.

>> That's not just that she's concerned that you can't make the payment. >> Yeah, that's right. that something about that feels really bad. And by the way, I feel horrible for her. I mean, this is her son. So, I'm not casting judgment on her. This is a horrible situation for everybody left behind, >> but um we want to make sure that you hear us, Christy. Like, you can actually get out of this. Sell the house. Take your time and just heal.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Thank you so much. >> Call us back if you need us. Call us back if you are wonderful. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. We're walking with you on this.

Okay. Kelly's going to take good care of you. You got to get back on and either to pep talk in 2 weeks. Whether we're on here or not, someone's going to help you. Okay. >> Bless you guys. >> All right. We love you. We're thinking about you. Oh my goodness.

>> Well, there's real life right there. And that's the tragic side of things. But the the wisdom that you gave her, I just want to recap to our audience. What Jade said was, "Hey, when you've got trauma that has been forced upon you, don't complicate it with money decisions.

Simplify, simplify, simplify.

[Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsay Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships.

We're so glad you've joined us today.

88825-55225 is the number to jump in on the conversation. 8 8255225

and uh sitting alongside the incomparable, the fabulously talented

Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman and I from hour 1 to two I got a wardrobe change.

First time >> nice >> I have ever done this and uh Jade's husband Sam who's become very very dear friend uh presented me with the latest Warshaw Entertainment tea and uh it's a

boxy tea. I'll be honest, the only one I have. >> That's right. You look good. >> I think I'm pulling it off. My shoulders My shoulders could be a little broader, but I can't do anything about that.

>> Hey, Jay gave me a hoodie that's a little big for me. If you want to try it on, see if you can wear it. >> Oh, okay. >> All right. All right. >> But I'm bringing this up because if you don't know Jade and Sam's story, uh they paid off nearly $500,000 in debt. They

literally live what we teach. And um and and how

they did it, they were traveling on cruises. Both of them were fabulously talented entertainment, but then as a result of all those crazy cruises, tell people how many cruises you think you guys a quick guess. What do you think?

>> Uh, for sure about 40 weeks a year.

>> 40 Sam is drawing a number in the air.

>> 2,000. >> 700 cruises. >> 700. Okay. >> Hey, I can't believe I lip read that. I suck at that. My wife thinks I'm terrible at lip reading. But anyway, as a part of that, Sam learned the business of booking the very talent that you all were and now has a great company. Yes.

And um it's your company as well and I'm proud to uh promote it.

>> You are >> Warshaw Entertainment. So if people who who would uh call Sam, what are they looking for? >> Uh anybody who's a musician, if you are a musician by your own right, if you're a comedian, we take comedians, we take dancers. Ken, you going to audition or what?

>> No. Sam would never book me for anything. Well, no. I could MC.

I'd be pretty good MC on a cruise. I'm known to be good on a mic. >> I mean, we we were friends before, but you're you're the big homie now. Like, this is different.

>> Oh, no. I love I love the Waraw. So, I I'm representing here, by the way, for free. Uh, but we're over at your house tomorrow night, so maybe I get an extra beverage.

>> Yeah. And we'll get one for you, too, James. Don't worry. >> We'll break out the good stuff for you.

>> Yes. The hoodie didn't fit. I feel bad about that. But >> I'll take the hoodie.

Kim bring you bring up a good point because it that does speak to my point

of view when you guys call in and you have a bunch of debt. That's why I'm always saying sometimes the nineto-5.

Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? Like the paycheck doesn't cut it and you have to go out there and create something that will cut it and you can do that. So, >> so when we tell you all to get a second and third job, we've done it. All right.

You don't want to hear my war stories either. >> I do want to hear them. All right. Over a cigar one night. >> Oh, that that can be arranged. Nathan is up in New Hampshire. Nathan, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Uh, so I'm calling because um I've

got about $43,000 of credit card debt

and I was I was potentially considering um one of those like debt repayment programs where they kind of settle your debt for a lesser amount. Just wanted to get your guys take on that. >> No, it's awful. We're going to help you.

>> Yeah, we wouldn't suggest that.

>> Could I be a more clear?

>> Was I a little fuzzy? >> Yeah, I think I mean, at the end of the

day, those those places are not doing

anything for you that you couldn't do for yourself, and you can actually do it in a more integral way. So, in essence, what they would do is you'd pay into a pot, and they'd they'd let those payments sit while your other payments become delinquent, and then at that point, they'd be able to make a deal and secure a lower, you know, a lower deal for you. And that's kind of the way it works. But, of course, it's laden with fees and things like that.

So again, there's part of this that you can do on your own. For instance, if you do have any of them that are delinquent or in collections, you can go ahead and secure a deal uh for pennies on the dollar with those. And then for any that are remaining, we're just going to work the debt snowball with them. Uh and we can talk more about that in a minute.

What I really want to get from you is a bigger picture of your finances right now.

right? Yeah, it's about 43,000 and and actually um all of it except for I I have a $3,000 loan that I've been paying on for like the last year >> um since I started working again and and that's the only one that's current.

Everything else has been in collections for >> wow >> a few years now. I had a I had a pretty significant life event that um >> you know I kind of just just went off the rails. I I went into homelessness and stuff and it's just not >> what >> not a good season for me. But uh >> what caused that? Was it a job loss or medical deal? What happened? >> Um yeah, I went through uh a pretty

painful divorce and then uh a month after my divorce happened, my dad died.

>> Oh. >> And um I just I I did not farewell

through all of that. >> Understand. Okay. But you feel like you're stable. You feel like you're in a good place now.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my current situation, I I am am living rentree with

a friend who's letting me exchange, uh, work on his house for for housing.

>> Okay. How long will that last?

>> And, uh, um, it's it's indefinite. You

know, it's it's a God thing.

>> Okay. >> Um, you know, he's Christian Christian dude who uh has taken in a couple of different people over the years and >> unless he meets a lady.

>> So, it's not indefinite. Okay. And that's what Yeah, that's what I keep telling him. I'm like I I wish that you would just meet somebody so that >> I'd have a reason to move out. >> My my point of saying that is I want to make sure that you're on proper financial footing if and when that happens or just anything changes and you know you guys decide you want to part ways. So you've got the 43,000, 40 of it

is in collections, 3,000 of it you're still paying. What's your income every month?

Um, so I I just actually today was my last day uh working for Liberty University Online Academy. >> Okay. >> And um on the 25th I'm going to start working for a local paper mill. Um and

that's going to be $26 an hour. Um it's

it's roughly uh well it's 40 hours per

pay period, but they they do shift work.

>> I'll get eight hours of overtime um in

in each pay period. And then uh >> so what will that be a month with the overtime and everything?

>> Um I haven't actually run the numbers on that. >> Okay. >> I I just know it's it's it's an $8 an hour pay increase from what I was making. >> Good. Okay. As of today.

>> Okay. So let's say you're bringing home5 $6,000 a month. Does that feel right?

>> Uh yeah. I think it'll be about that.

>> Okay. So with that, uh what I need you to do is you need an every dollar budget. Have do you have one yet?

because if you don't, we'll give you one. >> I I don't >> Okay, so we're gonna give you an every dollar budget. It's the best budgeting tool out there because not only is it going to help you understand what you're spending your money on every month, it's going to help you find margin. Okay? And when we give this app to people, I want you to understand this very clearly because this is going to blow your mind.

When we give people this app, it's going to help you find up to $9,000 of margin

in the first 15 minutes. onetime margin, which means this is money that maybe you've been allocating in other places that are best suited for your debt situation right now. So that's the average number. Maybe you'll find five, maybe you'll find four, maybe you'll find 11, but you are going to find money and margin to put towards this $3,000 loan and hopefully knock it out really, really quickly.

And then from there, the app is like having me or Ken in your pocket.

So, we're going to give you that for free. uh to try for a little while. And yeah, it's you walking the debt snowball once you find out, okay, every month I have three $4,000. You should have a lot cuz you don't have rent. I have $4,000 I can put towards this debt. How quickly can you pay off $40,000 with $4,000 plus

you're going to settle this for half, right? So, let's call it 20 really, really fast.

>> Okay? So, hang on the line. We'll get you set up with every dollar and walk this through one at a time.

>> You know what'll help people get out of debt fast? What?

>> If it's getting me out of their pocket, they'll get out fast.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> All right, let's go to Will in Milwaukee. Will, how can we help?

>> Hi. Yes, thanks so much for taking my call. >> Yeah, sure. So, I'll give you the quick backstory. Uh, I'm 28 years old. My wife

and I are debtree except the house. We have about 180 grand in our retirement accounts. When we go do projections on what that's going to turn into when we're 67, it's north of 8 million even if we stop contributing. Uh, so we're contributing about 4,000 a month right now.

And my question for you guys is, would it be unwise for us to start reallocating that 4,000 a month to help pay off the duplex that we're living in right now and eventually pay cash for the next one? Uh, all with the goal of creating some income that we can use to supplement in the years leading up to retirement. >> That's a really good question. So, let's let's play this out based on how much of your what portion of your income is the 4,000?

Is that 15% of your >> It's right around 15%. >> Okay.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, you're proposing, hey, instead of putting this to retirement, I'd like to put this towards Yeah. the real estate dream.

>> Correct. >> Okay. I would not do that. Um, now, if you were investing more than 15%, I would say, yeah, let's let's pull it back to 15% and put the rest on the property. But, uh, it's so important

once you've reached the point that you've reached, right? You've paid off all of your debt and you freed up your biggest wealth-b buildinging tool in order to do that. And so I love the idea

of, you know, diversification. And you're doing that, right? If you're investing 15% through your 401k, you

know, through a Roth IRA, you are diversifying that amongst your different funds. But you're also, if you're putting anything uh towards your mortgage, which you are, that is a forced savings account, which is also an investment. So you've got that working with you. Anything above and beyond that, I think it's going to throw you off track because here's the thing.

You are going to retire one day, right? when you're in your 60s or your 50s or whatever you decide and you're likely not going to sell the house that you're in immediately and use that money to retire on, right? You're going to be living there. So, giving time for your 401k or your your Roth IRA to compound over time so that you can live off of that is important.

And so, if you stop contributing to that now, do you see what I'm saying? You won't enjoy that growth in the future.

of your gross income. And then anything above and beyond that, now we're putting extra on the mortgage and we're paying off the mortgage. And once that's done, anything above and beyond that, now we can put it into new new real estate properties that we can purchase. Does that make sense?

>> That does. Yeah. I I guess my fear is

struggling with money from 50 to 67,

having a stacked retirement account, and just counting down the days until I can touch that tax free. >> I understand. >> But why? Wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't. >> Why would you be struggling? >> Because he doesn't have a bridge is what he's saying. >> But but what about your income?

>> There's there's definitely our income. I guess it it just feels like 67 and beyond are kind of covered. I'd like to start working backwards and cover us from 45 to 67 now.

>> Well, okay. Well, I did have a question.

Again, I don't understand that reasoning, but let me go back for a second. I thought I heard you say that you guys are living in a duplex.

>> That's correct. >> So, when you asked the question to us, so you're living in a duplex, you're living on one side and renting out the other. >> Yes, sir. >> How much do you owe on the duplex?

uh 430 and some change.

>> Okay. And your question was, should you take that 4,000? So, you were saying, do I stop baby step four, 15% and go all in

on baby step six? Is that what I'm hearing you say?

>> That's correct. Yep. >> Yeah. No, I agree. Jade's right. No, we don't just stop. And you're going to be thankful that >> for that because dude, but I here's so to that point. I guess I'm not understanding why you think that you're somehow going

to be better off if you have two

properties. >> He wants to income producing beyond 59 and a half.

>> I know. I totally get it, but I'm playing out the call. Okay. >> What you said to us was uh should I do this and get another property? So now you would have really two properties.

The one you live in spitting off some rent and then another property spitting off some rent. Am I still on the same page? >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Okay. How much would you anticipate that spitting off in income? Real number.

>> So, if we pay off the the place we're living in right now, it would spit off 2500 and we would ideally buy a similar

place that would spit off uh 5,000 a

month. >> Okay. So, that's $7,500 a month.

>> That's correct. >> Okay. And how long is it going to take you I'm going somewhere with this point. I'm with you. How long would it take you

to get to that place where you are now generating $7,500 a month from those two properties? How many years?

>> Roughly 8 to 10 years.

>> My point exactly. You'd be better off

continuing to do what Jay told you to do and and let's work on baby step six. All right. So, let's pay it off. That's fine. But but let's stay with the process. And so you're not going to take that that that 15% a month and not invest that. Continue to invest that.

But if you're wanting to make more money, uh I think you'd be better off uh just following our plan and think about how much of a raise you're going to get when you get done with baby step six. So let's just take that. How long before you're done with baby step six and you paid off this current home?

>> Four years is the goal. >> Okay. So four years. So in four years you get a nice raise, correct?

>> Yeah. That's >> okay. That's 2500 a month if I was paying attention. Yes.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And then what about our income?

What do we both do? What what are our jobs? >> I'm in sales and my wife is a physical therapist. >> You're in sales? Sales is is the

greatest industry in the world for rate making more money. What kind of What are you doing? >> I sell a feed additive for cows.

>> Well, I don't know anything about the feed additive market, but tell me, is there room for growth?

There's room for growth. Uh I guess my dilemma is I don't want to do it forever. I'd like to do sales in a different industry. >> Great. Oh, this is a great idea. So, you know what we do there? We start today on building that bridge. What What industry would you like to be in?

>> I'd like to be in the real estate business. >> Clearly. >> Real estate. Great. >> Yeah. >> So, now let's let's go get our real estate license. How long will that take and how much will it cost?

>> Uh it's in the works right now. A couple hundred bucks, maybe six months left.

>> Okay, great. And when you're done with that, I want you to call Buffini and Company, my good friends Brian and Dermit at Befini and that company.

They're the number one real estate training company in the world and do everything that they offer and you're going to become a high performer. And now we're going to be looking back on this phone call on this day and we're going to go, man, I was selling myself short by trying to make an additional $7,500 a month and shortch changing myself when I'm older and I'm going to be crazy wealthy. So, I love your spirit. I love your aim.

You're just misguided in your plan to get there. So, work the baby steps and let's go make more money. If I want more money now before I'm 67 and drawn from retirement, I'm going to go make more money. And here's what's great.

Real estate, there's no cap on that.

>> No cap. Plus, here's the other thing.

Once you get to the point where you if to Ken's point, if you continue to grow your income and you're still investing 15% of that, what's going to happen is you're going to start maxing out your 401k and you're going to look for somewhere else that you can invest and maybe you'll look over and do like a little brokerage account that if you do decide to retire from your job early

before 59 and a half, that will spit off some money for you as well. So, all of this has a win-win potential over the long haul. Ken, you're a magician, by the way. >> Why? >> Cuz you crafted that call. You just you turned it in. >> You did a little abracadabra and it turned into a work. >> Wow. >> It turned into >> Well, you know, I appreciate the kind words. Will, are you tracking with me?

>> I am. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah. Listen, great. Your hunger is where it needs to be. And now, let's just put all of our focus on winning in the transition to real estate. Crush it.

Enjoy life. And you're going to be a very, very wealthy old guy. M love it.

>> So, it's going to be fun. >> Got it. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call. Yeah. I Well, thanks. I don't know what I didn't think it was very m magical. It was just like, wait a second. >> I saw the >> Yeah, he's all focused on it in the hat.

>> I'm going to try to use my baby step for money to max out and I'm like, that's not that big of a play. >> Yeah. Let's get more money.

>> I'm not sneezing at 7,500 a month, but it was going to take eight years. >> That's facts. And by by the way, he if

he's a real estate professional, next year >> he should be making 7500 a month.

>> Clock it >> easy, you know. So, uh, anyway, there it

is, folks. Don't outthink all of this. I got to tell you, I love when people call and they think that there was a caveat in the baby steps. Old Dave didn't think

about this one right here. And it just they work. The baby steps work. And if you're a new listener, save yourself the time and energy of calling us up and trying to re-engineer them. >> It ain't happening. >> It's not happening. You're wrong. We're right. And uh so therefore, let's just

cut our losses. >> That was the perfect I said it ain't happening. You said it's not happening.

[Music] >> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

All right, the Ramsey. So, question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi.

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>> Okay. Today's question comes from Greg in Minnesota. He says, "We're on baby step three and saving for our 3 to sixmonth emergency fund. We are consumer debtree and just purchased a home last year that is within our budget. I'm looking for advice on whether it's okay to add Botox for my wife." >> Hey, now >> into our budget so that she uh or that

let's see into our budget or if that should be held off until we have 3 to six months saved. I've heard Botox is expensive and I don't want to stray from our system by adding on any ongoing payments to our budget. Our current home, I'm sorry, this is wild to me. Our

current home income is 150,000 and we

currently have 35,000 in our emergency fund and any insight would be appreciated. Okay, let's >> How How much does Botox cost?

>> I don't know. Okay, cuz I don't need it yet. Hey. Okay. >> Well, look at you. She's fabulous. knows it. >> Ah, yes. You just said that. I love it.

>> Can we say that? >> Uh, you just did. >> I mean, I did. >> You just did. And I have no problem with it. >> All right. Here we are. He's got 35,000 saved now. I don't know.

>> He says his income is 150.

>> Yeah. >> So, 3 to 6 months there. Let's see. What do we talk about? What's a net on 150?

>> Oh, it depends on the state. But let's just say uh you're bringing in, I don't know, 12,000 a month. Now, here's where here's what I want to remind people about with the baby steps. And when it comes specifically to baby step three, it's your basic budget, okay? It's not

it's not you trying to 6x your income,

if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Like what you bring home for that month. That's not what we're talking about.

We're saying, "Okay, when I do my budget, there's the things that I need to do, and then there's some of the things I want to do, and then there's all the extra miscellaneous." when you're doing your emergency fund, it's kind of what must be true to make the household run. That's what we're looking for. So, my guess is that he's pretty close to being there. Now, Botox, >> here we go.

>> What do you got, Ken? >> Um, this is, of course, you know, some AI chat GPT stuff. Here we go. The average cost for regular Botox treatment can range, now this is where this gets crazy, but this gives you something to work with, can range from $200 to $1,200

per session. So, me thinks that >> $1,200 per session. How often, though?

How often? >> Uh, well, it just says per session. So,

this comes down to your vanity. It's not like, you know, uh, okay. Generally, prices range from $10 to $25 per unit.

And most people require between 20 to 60 units for common treatment areas like forehead lines, crows feet. Let me tell you something. >> But how often do you get the units? Is it like every six months? >> No. No, it's up to you. There is no >> Kelly is saying like every six months is kind of >> Oh, is that right? Every six months.

>> Yeah. Give or take. And I have a couple friends who have said something like that. >> But I think that boils down to again how vain you are. And listen to >> how deep your wrinkles. >> Okay. I got people in the audience out here going three months. >> Every three months. And is that cost

>> you're every three months? Oh, this is great. We're talking through the glass where we're getting real time info. >> It's real real time info. So, >> okay. So, run the numbers on every three months. >> Every three months. >> And um so, let me ask you a question. Uh

the $200 to $1,200 per session. How

close to that are you? Are you on the low end or high end?

>> About I can't read. >> About 700 bucks. >> Okay. So, let's say let's just pretend she's spending $700 every three months.

Yeah, >> you got to budget for it. >> You got to budget for it. And I think that, you know, they've got their house.

They're in baby step four.

>> This is the time where you can do you start to live your life because you're out of debt and they've got three to six. They don't have that number, do you? Based on what we know about their income. >> I don't. As long as they're not going into debt for it. Here's here's let me go through the framework about knowing how to spend. Okay. So it's kind of these these five questions that you ask yourself. So the first one is am I a person who's budgeting?

>> Do I budget my money? Yes, I budget my money. Okay, that's a green light. Next one is am I a person who's out of debt >> and p you know lives a debtree lifestyle? Yes, that's a green light.

Next question is have I do I have the proper uh insuranceances in place?

>> If you do life insurance, all your other insuranceances, yes, that's a green light. Next thing is am I a person who's saving for the future? Well, yeah, you are. You've got your 3 to 6 months.

You're about to start uh on your baby step four as soon as that's done. Yeah, you're a person who's doing what we teach in line with baby steps. And finally, am I a person who's prioritizing generosity? If you're doing those five things now, it means that if

you have something pop up like this, should I take that little trip to Disney? Should I do the Botox? Should I, you know, get a new couch? likely as long as it sticks in your budget and you're not going into debt because we already said you're a debtree person.

The answer is likely yes >> because you've proven that you're a financially responsible adult and this is just called fun things that you get to do when you're a financially responsible adult. So I me thinks the

answer is yay.

>> So that's so Kelly by the way I was I was doing more research as Jade was breaking that down. You're right. The typical effects of Botox last three to four months. So, if we do the three-month thing. Way to go, Kelly. Uh,

I know you don't need it. She's She's young and very young and looks lovely.

Excellent. I needed to make sure I mentioned that. I think she was >> Have you tried it? >> No, I'm not putting that in my face.

>> You wouldn't try it. >> Why? Wrinkles on a man are signs of

failure or wisdom. >> Why is that? How come? >> I'm not ashamed of either. >> It's so funny. When guys get older, they're like the age is like, "Oh, yes.

This is a good thing." >> Yeah. >> I'll tell you what else I'm not doing. I'm not coloring my hair either. >> Never. >> Never. >> Okay. >> I'm not going to do it, man. >> You're going to go silver fox.

>> I I don't I don't want to offend anybody that does the Botox, but I It cannot be good for you. >> I I do feel like it is looks better on

when men get their face pulled. Let me tell you how much it All right, I'm going out on a limb cuz I don't mind.

>> Go for it, kid. >> This is my opinion. This is not a Ramsay

show official opinion, okay? But as a guy, I don't think Botox makes ladies

look better. It makes them look like they have Botox. In other words, I look at him and I go, she no, I'm love.

Listen, I love Land Man. It's one of my favorite shows. Deme Moore. Okay. Dei Moore is beautiful. She's older. It's very obvious to me that Deme Moore is got too far. When you do it right, no

one even knows that cuz I'm a woman, Ken K. You've not done it. But I know the women who have done it and when they do it right, no one is they're none the wiser. >> Okay. All right. So, I'm going to I'm going to revise my opinion. For those of you women who aren't doing it right, we know >> because when you laugh, nothing changes.

>> Nothing. And I don't think that's normal. I feel like I'm looking at a um a Madame Tusad uh wax museum figure.

Okay. >> That's not natural. >> Let's go deeper in the hole because we're in it now. >> Natural beauty.

>> We're in the hole now, Ken. >> No, I'm not. >> No, not you. We cuz we're talking about it.

We're going to take it a step further. >> I like where this is going. Okay, this is question of the day. The Y refi folks are getting their money's worth.

I'm telling you right now. >> So, I do think that when you do Botox and invest in getting it right, you can do it. If you're doing it right, no one really knows. And you started early enough to where no one knew you had wrinkles that disappeared in the first place.

>> I'm cynical.

>> Well, now that's completely obvious. It looks like you got stung by a bee and you've having a reaction. >> That's what I've been saying. >> It's It's ridiculous. >> So, what we're saying is let's reallocate this money, women. No more lip injections. Reallocate that money to something else. >> That is a foreign substance. Yes or no?

>> Yes. It's a foreign substance. It it it it's a paralysis. It par it paralyzes

the muscle.

>> That's what it is. >> I I just got to tell you, we all know.

And so if the point is to try to look better and it's not No, you all are failing. >> Not all the people who do it right and I'm trying to tell you there's people who do it right.

>> I Okay, I just say I'm just saying I Why

can't we just be natural?

>> Because we can James say something. This

new segment is called Kinsplaining and it's going to be a regular thing we do. >> Kinsplaining. I like it. >> Kinsplaining. >> Okay. How do you feel about >> I'm pro woman. How do you feel about a man who gets like hair plugs or like

does something like that to >> that? I have a different I got a different position on that because you can tell cuz if it's back here, no. If you get it back here, you can't. Now, if you get a hairline like my hairline has been receding for quite some time, I'm very aware of it. But if I show up next week and it's an inch down here, we all know something's not right.

>> But if it looks good, Ken, I would support you to leave. >> But that's my hairline. It used to be there. So that I go for because the hairline was there. I'm restoring it.

Your lips never looked like a raft ever.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a very big deal and with the clickbait headlines and conflicting data that's flying all around, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And we want to always here at the Ramsey Show uh be on the front of all this junk and tell you the truth uh not just use clickbait stuff. So median home prices stayed steady last month at about 441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit 1 million for the second month in a row.

And uh the 15-year fixed rate also held steady at 5.95% last month. Uh, so if

you're debt free, have a s have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is a good time to buy or sell to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. We got you covered. Go to ramiesolutions.com/market.

Ramseysolutions.com or you can click the link on the show notes in podcast and YouTube. And by the way, I want to just mention we give you a lot of information every show. The show notes, the show notes, the show notes. All right. I call it James Child's Treasure Trove. All right. He's got it all there. It's uh he just has it

there for you. So, don't ever fret if you don't hear us uh properly or you forget what we told you about. Show notes have it all. Lucy, >> you like that? I thought that was pretty good. >> I don't know how I feel about that. >> He didn't he I can tell you he did not like it. Uh Lucy is up in Akran, Ohio.

Lucy, how can we help?

>> Hi guys. Uh thanks for taking my call.

Uh, if I disappear suddenly, it's because uh my son had another blowout him on my hip right now.

>> Okay. She's got a little baby on >> a blowout. >> Yeah, he's he's he's a month old and

great.

>> Hey, if anything goes wrong, >> listen, we can handle a blowout. In fact, if we heard it, it would really wake America up. That would be even more fun, which I'm here for that. That doesn't phase me at all. All right.

>> I make no promises. Okay.

>> Uh so the question we have for you is my husband and I we want to buy a 12 or even 15 passenger van uh to future proof

for our family. >> Uh the problem is right now we only have two kids. We have a toddler and uh Will over here. He's an infant >> and you already want a 15 passenger van.

You got major plans.

>> Problem. >> I'm more concerned less about the plan of the van but the process of having that many kids. You got a little guy that's experiencing blowouts on your hip. Let's take our time. Mom, what are we in a hurry for?

>> Yeah. By the time you have the 15 seriousness, stop this madness of planning for something that doesn't exist. >> Yeah. By the time you fill the van, the van's going to be old. Like it's going to be 15 years old.

>> That's part of why I'm calling. The other part of it is we do have reasons why we're looking for a big like a literally big vehicle. Um he we have a

collection of seven uncles. Uh the only one under six foot right now is 14 and

he is rapidly approaching six foot. Um so we have we have big family genes.

Also my youngest two siblings are 11 and 14. He just started at a very >> go back one one one beat.

>> I'm lost on the seven uncle.

>> Seven six foot tall uncles. How often are you transporting these uncles?

That was more for context of how big our children will likely be. We I doubt >> Shut up. You thought she was going to drive the uncles. >> I was concern Listen. What's crazier?

What's crazier? What is crazier? Me asking about if she's driving the seven foot uncles or her assuming she's going to have 15 7 foot children 15 years

before they're even born. Yeah, I I Lucy, I went bad.

>> Now that Jade Now that Jade has caught up with the same call that I'm on, u I

think she's right. What is that again?

We You literally I went This is what happened. I want you to hear what happened. Uh Jade Ken, should I buy should my husband and I buy a 15ft passenger or whatever for 15 kids? We only have two. Okay. And I went, "Well, that's a little silly. Maybe we shouldn't be thinking about that." And your response was, "Well, here's the other reason. We have seven uncles that are all six foot or taller, so we're going to need a lot of leg room. Thus, that's why we These kids are babies,

>> right? I I have I have more reasons to get to, though. >> Okay, go ahead. You're 0 for two. You'd got two strikes. What's the third reason for a massive van?

>> Well, first of all, I run a youth group.

Uh, so I would like to take the kids two places all in one vehicle to make it easier for everybody. >> That's not your problem. that >> that's not your problem. That's the church's problem.

>> Somebody needs to donate a van.

>> You're correct. You're correct. >> I know that's three strikes. What's next? I'll give you up to five. Let's go for reason number four that you need to empty your emergency fund >> for this. >> Which is not an emergency. None of these are emergencies. And and not only they not emergency, they're bad reasons. Give me two more.

>> So, we want to go on We want to go on vacations. So, we want to be able to tow a pop-up camper and perhaps, like I said, take the younger siblings and have space for them as well. Um, and the other problem is the other cars that we have are in uh varying states of disrepair and so we're trying to plan ahead for that. >> Okay.

So, uh those are a little bit closer, but again, not a reason to none of these are emergencies and and none of this is a good financial decision right now. Uh, if we can't afford to tow a camper, then we change our vacation plan and we go rent a place, a cabin in the woods.

>> So, I mean, like, I don't know why Jade

is she's gone. The church giggle is in full effect. Lucy, do you understand what I'm saying? Like, none of these constitute doing what you think you need to do. Like, let's just be patient.

Let's fund these things. So, where would you put yourself on the baby steps right now? We are about at baby step four. We were

investing 7% and we temporarily brought it to eight or not 8% that didn't make any sense. 0% so that we could stack the cash for uh the cars because of the condition that they're in right now.

>> Okay. So our so so our next step is we

need to plan for a car. So we've got a syncing fund going to take care of the first car situation. Correct. Are we going to have one?

>> Correct. We do. >> Yeah. That's the play right now. Not the gigantic van. Now, when the day arrives, God bless your soul. If you've got 12 kids, then we deal with that. But right now, no, we've got to uh continue the baby steps. And then along the way, if

we've got to replace a car, then that's what we begin to focus on. But don't change the formula, okay? Because we want you to continue to win >> even when life stuff happens. And we need to never touch the emergency fund unless it is an absolute for alarm

emergency. You with me?

>> Mhm. I am. I am.

>> Okay. >> I can tell you about the other cars if that helps understand why we're looking at a car now.

>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you do you need to replace the car now? Are we in that kind of a situation? We We're have multiple cars that are not running.

>> We have a 2010 Ford Focus, which is the

most reliable thing we have right now.

Uh, and it started shifting a little weird. So, we're a little a little wary.

What does that mean? We got a 2000.

>> When you say it started to be weird, is that it's making a clank clank noise.

The brakes don't work. I mean, what does that actually mean? >> It's had a couple funks. It's had a couple funks when it went to shift, so it makes us worried about the transmission. It It I forget how many miles it has on it, but I think it's like a lot.

>> All right, real quick. What's the second car?

2007 Toyota 4Runner that's going to the shop on Sunday. >> What's it going to the shop for?

>> It is singing opera on the highway. We don't even know what the problem is. >> Singing. So, it's making a high-pitched squealing noise.

>> Uh, not even squealing. It is changing pitch as we break, but then not when we break. It's very weird. Okay. My dad's a mechanic. He doesn't even recognize it.

Hence the shock. >> Okay. So there's part of this where I

just feel like you are going to extremes

on many of the things that you're saying. Yeah. >> Right. You went you jumped straight to the 15 passenger van. We jumped straight to this and now we're assuming that you know you you take these cars to the the

>> mechanic and all hell will break loose, right? Maybe it's just a normal repair.

>> And a four, by the way, a Toyota 4Erunner uh it might require some work, but those are known to drive for ever.

How many th How many miles you got on the four? >> We bought it. >> How many miles you have on? >> Um, you know, my husband is listening to the live, so he might text me how many miles.

>> Oh, hi. >> My head I don't remember, but >> Okay, here's my point. >> Because it is it is also higher uh in mileage. Quite high.

>> Okay. Well, again, you guys have the money. >> Otherwise, good. >> But here's the thing.

You have the money set aside to pay for those repairs. And and so if that buys you time on that, great. And then let's let's take a look at the uh Ford Focus and go what's the cost to fix that? We probably have the money to fix that.

That's the focus. Not a gigantic van that we actually don't need, but we're going to try to talk ourselves into cuz we'd like to drag something along behind it. Let's just stay simple right now cuz

you got a lot going on and take care of that little guy and his sour stomach.

Hope that all works out.

[Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsay Show where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. And we're glad you've joined us today.88255225

is the phone number.882552 88 8255 5225

alongside the incomparably fabulous Jay

Borshaw. I'm just Ken. Isn't that the name of the song in the movie? >> Just Ken. >> I'm just Ken. Uh, hey, thrilled that you guys are with us. And we're going to get started right here with Andrew in Seattle. Andrew, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, and thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um, so I' I've got a kind of question.

I've I've always been kind of money I wouldn't say illiterate but not me and me and money were never big friends.

Um so I've been following your plan for about three months. I'm midway through my snowball. >> Okay. >> So my question is I'm 56 years old and

I've taken I've stopped my 401k so I

could basically get my snowball rolling.

>> Good. >> I've got two debts left to pay off. One is a credit card of 6,300.

Um the other one's my car loan for 24

uh8 to 24,875.

So my question is once I get the credit card paid off, which is some going to be somewhere around January, um the car is

going to take me another year, maybe

year and a couple of months to pay that off. Should I put my money back into my

401k prior to paying off the car?

Because with my age, I haven't put a ton

of money into my 401k. I've only got about um about 150,000 in total uh

assets >> um so far plus a mortgage.

>> What is that? >> And my 50.

>> So I've got um about a 100,000 in the in

a IRA from another previous employment.

And then with this employer, I've got a 401k of roughly about 58,000.

>> Okay. Um I can under I can appreciate that feeling of wanting to take care, you know, take advantage of that compound interest as quickly as possible, but yeah, you have to remember

that this debt, as long as you have this debt in your life, it's going to keep you from going further faster. And so by

paying it off, we're allowing us to focus our all of our resources and all of our intentions at one thing at a time. And because of that, it's going to allow us to go faster and accomplish more. Uh as opposed to saying, well, I'm

kind of going to pay off the debt, but I'm going to also keep investing over here. You got to think about it. The way I like to think about it is if I have a picture of water and several glasses that I have to fill up, it takes me forever to fill up the glasses if I put a drop in each one as I go. But if I just go ahead and fill one up, that one's full. I can set it to the side.

It's done with. And now I can focus all of my attention on the filling up filling up filling up the next glass. So that's kind of how I like to think of it. Um let's talk about this in in real

numbers for a minute. Uh it kind of bothered me that you said it's going to take you till January to pay off the 6,000 in credit cards. Uh tell me more

about what your margin is and what you're making every single month.

>> So I'm in the snowball. I'm putting about uh about 1,800 towards the credit

card. Once that's done, I'll be putting 2,000 towards the car. Um so I I have

roughly right now about 1,800 to play with to push towards these debts. Um the

car loan itself is 3.95 a month. So once the credit card's done, I'll have that 1,800 plus the 300 and

change to put back towards the car.

>> Okay. Um, and that's about as flexible as I can really get past all my other normal bills. >> Are you side >> hustling mortgage?

>> What's that? >> Are you doing a side hustle? Picking up some extra money.

>> No, I I don't really have time to do that. I mean, I I wish I could. I wish I had like a passive income that I could actually do. >> No, not passive. But explain to me more about uh So, you're 56. Are you single?

>> No. >> Okay. So, married. So, I have a housewife. Yeah.

>> Okay. A housewife. Okay.

>> Is that your wife or is that a position?

>> Yeah.

>> So, I have a wife. Um, she's currently not working at the moment.

>> Why isn't she working? >> So, she's trying to get together a photography business and right now the

it's very sparse here in

>> here. Here's where here and Ken Ken is going to say the same. Why? Matter of fact, why don't you say it, Ken? >> Well, I just I I'm going to immediately go, what has she done in her in her work past that she can leverage from a skill and experience standpoint to go make some decent money right now? This speeds this up fast. If she's if she's making somewhere between, let's just lowball it, $ 35, $40,000 a year. That's a game

changer. You would agree?

>> Oh, I totally agree. Well, let's press pause on the fledgling photography business and she can mess around on the weekends at night and take pictures and get better and you know all that kind of stuff and not like completely you know abandon it. But as it as it relates to a business you know what what has she done in the past? What what kind of work has she done?

>> Um she was doing quality uh control in

like a insurance company that's basically moved out of Washington.

It's photography. What was she making?

>> Uh like 40 grand a year.

>> Yeah, >> somewhere around that. 50.

>> Are we not on the same page here?

>> We we totally are. But you have >> I totally am on the same page with you.

>> What's your pause? >> I've always paid for the for the home and the our bills and everything and she's kept her bills and whatnot herself. So currently, you know, I'm I'm

handling it all. So, it's it hasn't that hasn't changed. It's mainly my my my

retirement I'm trying to push towards.

So, when I know that I'm retired, I've got enough nest egg for her to survive even if she doesn't have work.

>> So, here's the thing. We can if you

continue to silo it off and it's and make it it's my job to do this. I'm the one who's going to do this. You're cutting off 50% of your ining income

potential because she's your partner.

>> Yeah. What I heard you not say is that Ken, you and I are on the same page, but my wife is not on that page.

>> Is that it?

>> I wouldn't exactly say that. No, I She's She's definitely wants to and she feels bad that she's not.

>> Um >> Well, let's not feel bad about it, but let's feel motivated to go and let's get a job. She needs to get a job.

Yeah, because here, let's just play this out for uh for a moment. So, you told me you're concerned about retirement. You got a,000 bucks in the IRA or 100,000 bucks in the IRA, 56 years old. So, let's just pretend uh let's pretend this

year you were able to knock out the debt because your wife gets a job and you kill it. You find a way to bring in some extra income as well. and you guys pay off the $6,000 in credit cards and you're able to somehow knock out the $25,000 car between now and let's say February, right? And then you turn around and say, "You know what? We're going to start contributing $1,000 a month into our retirement." If you do that from age 56 to 67, you're going to

have about $550,000.

Okay, that's that's pretty good. But

that is with her working and her adding to this, right? Because the hope is that you guys can continue to increase your income and instead of investing, I don't know, $1,000 uh $1,000 a month, maybe you can bust it up to 1,200 thou. You know what I'm saying? $1,200 uh dollars a month and you can get that closer to 600,000, right? So, every little bit counts in this equation to getting you guys to a point that you can retire with dignity. Um, but she's a big part of

that. She's 50% of the puzzle here.

>> That's right. So, hey, let's band together. And boy, these these numbers change very very quickly on all sides, right? We pay off the debt faster. We start piling retirement money faster.

Let's do this together. Lock arms and let's go. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, we'd love for you to join one of our free every dollar trainings. Uh we have a new training every week this month and they're all hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities. Uh we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and find $9,000 of margin using the Every

Dollar Budget app. It's fantastic. Uh if

you have any questions during the live Q&A, you get a chance to ask them.

That's always fun and it's free. You can sign up at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.

Ramseyolutions.comwebinar.

Bob is joining us now in Ohio. Bob, how can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hi. Um, I want to know what my

next step should be. My wife and I, we've been doing the baby steps for the past year and a half.

>> Um, and we are almost um done with baby

step number two. >> Awesome. >> Um, we have about $4,000 of medical

bills left. >> And then it's just and then it's just our mortgage. Um that being said, in

March, um my wife got let go from work

and um you know, she's got all these

health issues with >> clotting disorders and seizures and such. Um so, >> so she's not currently working and last

month we found out that my 13-year-old

has a malignant brain tumor.

>> Oh no. So sorry.

>> Um, so he's he's going through chemo.

Um, and I guess my question is

with my wife not working, um, should we

should we stop with the baby steps for now and just pile up cash or >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You guys, >> yes, >> you're you're getting hit hard right now. Um, and the baby steps are really important, but during times like this, yeah, you got to hit pause. And right now, the sole focus for you guys is getting well >> and fighting cancer and fighting, you know, the things that your your wife is dealing with as well. The good news is you you guys understood the assignment

several months ago, a year ago, and paid off the majority of your debt, and it's put you in a really great uh position now to be able to push pause and to be able to focus on health. Um, >> what is when let's talk about what it means to pile up cash and kind of put some some real numbers to that. So, what's your family out-ofpocket max every year?

Um, all right. When you say out of pocket max, you mean >> the the maximum amount that you'll pay

uh beyond your deductible. For some people, that number is the same as their deductible. For some people, it could be slightly more.

>> Okay. So, actually, when my wife got laid off, um, we had insurance through

her work. Now, we have, uh, state Medicaid, I think. >> Okay. Okay. So, we we don't have a

deductible or co-pays.

Um, and as far as I know,

um, all of his chemo treatments are

going to be covered. >> Good. That's great. >> Um, we just have to make sure, you know, we get the pre-authorization.

>> Um, >> what was she making and what was she doing before she was laid off?

>> Well, she so she was an accounting coordinator and I think she was making about 19 an hour full-time.

>> Okay. And with all those health issues that you mentioned for her, is she able to work?

>> So, her neurologist says that she shouldn't work right now.

>> Um, and she's not allowed to drive because of her seizures.

>> Um, >> okay. >> So, >> what about your income? What's your income? >> Uh, my income is um 20 bucks an hour.

So, roughly 40,000 gross.

>> What do you do?

>> Mechanic >> on cars.

>> Yes. Okay. Is there overtime options for

you?

>> Um, there is overtime, but um I work at

my dad's auto shop, so and it's just me

and him. It's a very small business. The

the business itself can't afford to pay

time and a half, >> right? Um, >> let me ask you this is if uh and I'm not

suggesting this, but I but I got to poke in >> on this. How can we make more income right now?

>> Um, if you were not working for your dad in this small shop, what could you make in your area as a mechanic? Could you make more?

>> I could. >> And would you have time and a half options there?

>> Yes. Um that that being said, before my

son got diagnosed, um I started

um flipping cars, buy, fix, and and resell. >> Yeah. >> Um and I just sold I just sold a car. Um

and that put about >> that put about 6,500 in our account.

>> Good. >> All of that is that 6,500 all of that was profit?

>> No. >> How much of it was profit?

Uh about 2500.

>> Okay. And how long does it take you to flip a car?

>> Well, um so it was a new venture and

that was my first flip. Um and it took

about 3 months.

>> Okay. >> I' I I want you to pause the flip situation just because there is risk involved. And I know I'm not even going to suggest that you leave your dad's shop. Uh, but I do think you've got to

consider overtime when it means what I mean by that is working for somebody else, finding some side projects where you can do mechanical work. I think that will help with this process because

where I'm going with this is to the extent that you can, replacing your wife's income is a goal because that's a pretty big hit you just took. >> It is big, >> right? >> I mean, it's half the income.

>> That's exactly right. And you're going through this now. I'm glad you have your son's bills covered. That's great. And seems like you'd have her medic medical medical stuff covered as well.

>> Is there we still need more income?

>> Is there a cure in the future for your wife? Is there something that you guys are working towards where she they can, you know, put those seizures on hold or is there is there a

>> Well, they got her they've got her on medication and they're trying to figure out the correct dosage for that, but also um they want to figure out what's

causing the seizures first.

>> Understand? Okay. So, she's got she's got some time ahead of her before >> she's back in the game.

>> And the neurologist said that um said that she shouldn't drive for a minimum

of 6 months after her last seizure.

>> Okay.

Okay, understood. So, she's we're looking for work from home positions.

We're working looking for things that she can do on her own time. Yeah. Create her own schedule.

>> And you know, if she takes a job and

something happens and she's let go, >> then so be it. But I don't think we should allow it to, you know, stop her from looking for things. >> More income right now does does a couple things. Number one, it it it stacks cash

for whatever additional treatments may be needed that you would fund. Um, but

it also puts you in a good position that once we hopefully get the all clear here, um, that you're not only paying off debt, but you got that fully funded emergency fund.

>> Okay. >> So, yes, pause the baby steps for right now because you really only have the one $4,000 medical debt.

>> And I I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be opposed to you calling them up and telling them your situation, >> seeing if they'll clear some of that.

>> Yeah. I I wouldn't I wouldn't be opposed to taking a stab at that. They go, "Look, here's the deal. Okay, this is what happened to my wife. This is her condition. This is what the doctors have told her. >> And so, and and she was laid off. She couldn't she can't do a normal thing anyway. And then here's what's going on with my son. And uh we we're going to

take care of this at some point, but right now we can't. We've got to we've got to batten down the hatches.

>> And let's see how if we got a really nice, sweet, kind, reasonable person on the other end of that phone that might work with you on that. >> Uh but yes, stack cash right now. But in order for you to stack cash, you got to go make more or your wife's got to do something from home that she's able to do cuz your income just got cut in half.

>> Mhm. >> Right. And we we did just um we just

paid off the last of our credit cards um last week. >> Great job. >> Good. >> And we we called them up and explained the situation and they were willing to settle for a lower amount.

>> Great. You could I mean you can try the same thing with the credit cards or with the medical debt. I just think that right now, even if they cut it in half, that $2,000 is money that you need to stack up and see if they'll just hold that deal for you. Say, "Will you just get this for me in writing and as soon as things kind of pick back up, we'll send you the money?" That kind of thing.

Uh, I'm sorry that you're going through this. It's really tough. >> Hang in there, Bob. It's going to get better and you guys have done the right thing. You're a good man.

[Music]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Go to our show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Complete the quiz and that'll give you a quick update and next steps and that'll help you if you feel like you've stalled out. Caleb is joining us now in Atlanta, Georgia.

Caleb, how can we help? Hey, how are you doing? >> Good, sir. >> Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, I my question's pretty uh pretty simple.

my mom my father passed away about a year ago and uh my mom has just sold the

house. And so she basically basically

got a mom who's got about 1,200 in social security coming in and we'll have aboutund20,000 in the bank and that's everything. No house, got to rent something. That's kind of her situation. So that money in the bank no job though she will maybe look for something but it's all kind of new and figuring out.

I actually I actually live in East Africa and so it's not easy you know figuring out so trying to give her some some good advice and I have my thoughts and let's see what they say here and so >> that 120 bas she needs to live on it is what it come and other than that social security and so what would you guys say is a good direction? Well, what first tell us what is she getting in social security? >> 12 about 1,200 13 I think it's 1300 a month. >> How old is she?

>> She's 72. >> Okay. Um >> so my dad didn't leave much you know he doesn't have he didn't have 401k didn't have any of that stuff. >> Sure.

>> And >> so the hard part the hard part with this is all right. Um 1300 social security.

needs some place to rent. Um,

she's in a small town or is she in a metro area? >> Currently, currently she's living with my sister in Colorado. And so for for

numbers sake, she currently has an apartment that she's going to probably move into that will be about 1,700 a month. >> And who's going to cover the difference?

Because she's got 1300.

>> Yeah. See, that's part of that's part of the conversation. Obviously, we'll help as much as we're not all in the greatest >> and we're we're not in terrible shape.

We'll help her. And uh but it's it's you know that that's kind of the question at hand. You know she may get a job.

>> Yeah. >> So the hope the hope is not to be pulling out of that. That is the goal.

>> How old is she? But um >> here's >> she's 72. >> The reality is she can't live on 120,000. >> That's impossible. >> Um it'll it won't accumulate faster than

you're pulling off of it because there's a huge gap in >> not just the rent, but now she needs food. Every once in a while she's going to need to go somewhere, right? She's not going to just be cooped up in there. So, the reality, and I think you know this, the reality is $1,300 a a month isn't enough and $120,000

isn't enough. Uh so,

>> she's either going to have to go to work and fill those gaps. Maybe she, you know, works at Walmart, maybe she goes over to a grocery store. Um or you and

your siblings are filling those gaps for her. Those really are the It sounds like those are the options that are in front of you guys. >> I'd even push a I'd push a lot harder. I would exhaust everything, Jade, that I could on trying to find a cheaper living situation. The 1,700 The 1,700 a month,

I know in the grand scheme of things, is not crazy, but it is not a good price for her. So, I wonder if she finds another widow or, you know, whatever.

Let's find a Golden Girls community. if they're looking for a room a roommate, let's now if we split that cost or she jumps in and let we get that rent to say 800 a month or less or something like that, >> that frees up 500 bucks. Yeah, >> that's what you need to be looking at.

So, you know, we we can't forget some of the simple things like that to go put the word out. You know, she's living with her daughter, your sister, they're they're in that community. Let's ring the bell. Let's put the word out. my mom needs a roommate, you know, or if you're looking for a roommate, you know, and now all of a sudden we want to get to a place to where the $1,300 a month covers

the four walls. >> That would be our goal. >> Yeah. Because if I'm if I if I were you, that 120, I'd want that to sit somewhere

and stay there because your mother is going to continue to age and there's going to be a point at which maybe she needs some care, maybe there's something that needs to happen that's going to cost money and you guys are going to want >> whatever you can get your hands on, whether it's an inhome nurse to take care of her, that sort of thing. Um, and so for those reasons, that's why I would try to keep that 120 locked away somewhere. Uh, >> so that's that's part of my question.

What would be your advice as to where to lock that away? Would you say mutual funds? Would you say high interest savings? What would be what would be your advice concerning that 120? Is >> how's her health is?

>> Uh, you know, she's good. She's good.

She's good at this moment. you know, they they weren't the most consistent to go to the doctors and so she needs to do those things and figure that out >> because what you guys are saying is is totally true and uh we're trying to figure all those pieces and I'm thinking well with this 120 >> here's what I would do. >> Jade, I would uh I'll tell you what my take. I want to know what Jade thinks here. I'd defer to her opinion on this, but I would take 15 to 20

>> and I'd put that in a savings account and that's that's a pretty robust emergency fund for her.

>> Um and then I'd invest that 100. I I would get that working cuz if she lives 15 more years, um that's going to double

twice. >> I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't know if I would do Yeah, 15.

That might be a little high for her. Maybe I 10 and yeah, I'd invest the rest. So yeah, the 10 in a high yield, invest the rest in just good mutual funds, nothing nothing crazy. And that way it's there. I think that's exactly it, Ken. But I mean, this involves her getting to a place, her living expenses to where she lives off of uh the the uh

uh social security and then the grocery job or >> 72y old woman to do. >> Yeah. And so anything she makes above and beyond that is she's stacking.

>> I think that's actually doable. Now, I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying if I look for it, that's what I would do.

If that was my mom and that was her situation and I couldn't cover for her, then that's what I would be doing. >> Yeah. The living the living part is >> 1700. Yeah. Really, really important.

And just >> buckle down and do your due diligence till you find it because if you can, that's going to break down.

>> Let me ask you this. If you were 72 and your husband passed, would you want to live alone or would you want a roommate?

>> Uh, it's hard to say, but I could understand wanting some companionship.

you know, wanting a roommate, but I could also see >> all of a sudden being like, you know, Betty is >> Betty, you know, doesn't wipe off the counter when she's done. And Betty, you know, she >> blar Frank Sinatra too loud. You know what I mean? I feel like I >> I don't like to be alone, right?

So, like for me, I I think I'd have to get a roommate. I really do. I don't think I could do well alone. >> Yeah, it could.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It could be a nice companion, something to do. You guys >> Yeah. That's the for us that's the trajectory that we probably will be.

But this first she's been Yeah, that's part of it. 1,700 isn't the long-term goal for sure for the rent. It's the roommate thing at this moment. It feels like >> she needs that space and figuring out life and we'll cover the difference.

We'll make it work. Yeah.

What would it would it be, you know, okay, that's if you put 120 in there, 4% whatever, it's going to make three 400 bucks a month, something like that, you know. Or do you say no? >> Okay. You put it >> we >> for me per >> not the 4%. Remember we want you putting that we want you putting >> you're saying you're saying put 10 15 in high interest savings and put the rest in in the market and I get you on that.

That's that's why I was calling to see what would they say because for me I'm I tend to be a safe guy. I'd be like put 50 in a high interest savings and then put 50 in S&P. >> No, we need that 120 making as much money as it possibly can. Um >> Okay. >> And ex Exactly. But I think the the 10 to 15 that would cover you if Yeah.

something popped up. I don't know. Maybe she needs a vehicle of her own or something, you know, that that you must pay for. Does she have a vehicle, by the way?

>> She does. Yeah. Okay. She doesn't have any other debt other than everything that I've told you is that she has cars, a car that's paid for and all those things.

There's not any debt looming.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. And and yeah, so you got it. Help her with budgeting, >> you know, like get her if if she needs it and just surround her there and and get her situation where it's much more stable and controlled.

And then I love the idea, by the way, of 72-y old if they're healthy doing some kind of work >> for a variety of reasons. So u yeah, thanks for the call, Caleb. And check on the kids, make sure everything's okay there. Always love when we hear those calls.

You know what I mean?

Kids are playing kickball. Johnny got hit in the head. Right upside the head.

Remember those red kickballs? That could really leave a mark. >> All right. Favorite Golden Girl hit me.

>> Uh, the old lady that was cranky. I forget her name on the show. The little lady. >> Or uh Dorothy's mom.

>> Yeah. Yeah. She the sassy kind of cranky lady. >> Ma. >> Ma. Was that her name? >> I mean, what's her real name? I can't remember her name on the show. >> Yeah. I don't know. This will not surprise you. Never saw a full episode.

>> I'm clutching my pearls. Exactly.

>> Wow. >> Now, I'm not the demographic.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 19:23. The fear of the Lord leads to life. Then one rests content untouched by trouble. And our quote of the day from Francis Chan, "Our greatest fear should not be a failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter." >> Got some depth depth on that one.

That'll make you think twice. Veronica joins us now in Texas. Veronica, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, thank you so much for getting me

on. I love your show and um, the last

two years I've really been following you guys and it has helped me so much. Um, I am a single mom. I'm 39 years old and I

have paid over $30,000 in debt in the last I would say four years. Um, which

has been amazing since I >> Way to go. Let's not just fly past that.

We're proud of you. Way to go.

>> Oh my goodness. It's been a journey, but I am here and um I have two questions.

Um, I have um a This is I have a stu I

have a vehicle, my first vehicle that I bought for my daughter when it when she graduated. I owe $3,400 on that. And um

I am in the process of trying to find a

home. Right now I live with family and I have about 7 months um to move on. So,

they've allowed me to stay here for two years, and within the two years, I have been able to get my $1,000 in my emergency fund. Um, and I also have

saved $14,000 for a home.

Um, but I still have debt. Um, I um

recently got my associates degree and so I have $6,000 in student loans and um I

do have another vehicle that's about $14,000 and I have one credit card that has no interest which I got my computer for school which I have 15 $1,500.

My question is I want to pay down this uh that first vehicle. It's $3,400.

um if I would pay it today, but that means that I would take away from my home savings. >> That's right. >> And um but I would save about $1,500 in

interest. And so >> I have been praying about this and it's

just been, you know, I'm going to try to call today. >> I'm glad you called. Uh listen, I I I'm glad you called. You said you paid off 30,000 in four years. That's no easy feat. Uh I didn't ask you what your income is. What is your income?

>> So, uh, uh, to date I make about $83,000.

Um, I am in the medical field and I'm also my little brother's caregiver.

Okay. >> So, he, um, he's, uh, been with me for

17 years. So, um, I do get paid from the

state for taking care of him.

>> So, how much do you take at home a month? What's a monthly snapshot for you with all those things combined?

So monthly, let's see, it's about 1650

>> 16 >> a month for my job. I mean at uh uh

every two weeks. So let's say >> Okay. Okay.

>> And then um $1,500. Let's add $1,500 to

that. So about $4,800, but his his

social security allowed him to uh give

me about $800 um for him to have like

room like for him to live if that makes sense. >> So 5600 together >> alto together.

>> Does that sound right? >> No, that um uh so he bring he has 9500

90 $950 a month. >> Okay. And then I bring home about $3,500

a month.

>> Okay. >> And the reason why I was able to pay off this inter this $30,000 is because I had

a job who paid all my bills and my um

for for three years. I was on a contract and um they uh paid for everything when they sent me out to to to Austin and um

I was able to my entire income went on paying off debt that I had with my ex.

>> Yours feels a little low. Are you are you putting anything in 401k or retirement right now? >> I am. Okay. >> I have um 401k >> I have a 401k. They take out um they

take out about $160

each period. >> Okay. So, there's money there.

>> And then I also >> tell me more. >> And then this is another this is another big question for me is uh 4700 for $470

goes to my tithe and offering.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So, now I have a better picture of what's going on. Um

here's the thing. You are correct in

your thought earlier that you said, "Hey, I I have 14,000 saved. I think I want to pay off this $3,400 car." Yes.

Uh because my advice to you would be first and foremost, you're not in a position to buy a house. And if you buy a house right now, you are going to create a level of stress that you've not understood before because it's going to create a lot of financial burden.

Because what I'm seeing right now, uh, based on your habits is you're not done borrowing money. And so what that tells me is if you buy a house right now and the AC goes out, you're going to get a credit card to fix it. If something happens with your back door and the lining comes off and you need somebody to come over and fix the door jam and you're going to take out the credit card with the repairman. So this is going to continue to snowball and then you're going to feel like a rat in the wheel not being able to make traction.

So, for those reasons, I would put the dream of buying a home just just table it for a while. It's it's not it's just deferred for a moment. It's not to say that it's going to happen.

>> So, that means I've got 14 really $13,000 that I can put towards debt right now. And what I'm doing, Ken, is just we're just walking her through the baby steps. >> And so, I keep $1,000 aside. That's baby

step one. That's just your rainy day fund in case something happens. But, yeah, let's pay off this car. And then on down the line now we've got another 10,000. Let's pay off the the credit card. That's 1,500. And let's keep paying this off. Let's knock out those student loans. So I'm at 6 7 8 9 10. I'm

almost there. I've spent all my money and I've I've paid off the car. I paid off the credit card and I've paid off my student loans. That is going to make you feel fantastic.

>> Am I wrong? >> Okay.

>> Yes. But seven months I I only have

seven months.

>> But that doesn't mean you have seven months until you have to move out. No one said you had to buy a house. It just means you have to find another place to live which in my mind says okay you're looking for an apartment >> and you can do that because the other thing you're going to do thing too as you're paying off this debt like we said because you can do that today.

>> The moment that you can muster up the strength to know that I'm right. You can do that today. And then the next thing that I would tell you to do is you need to pause this retirement, >> mama, because you >> need that $320 a month because like you said, you're trying to get a house, you're trying to get a place or, you know, a place to live on your own. So having that extra 320, not only is it

going to cause you to pay off this car faster, it's going to give you the money

and income you need to be able to go into a rental, go into an apartment, pay first and last month's rent, feel good about it. Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> So right now, you're trying to do a lot of things at once. What I'm saying is, let's focus on one thing at a time, knock it out, get it done. Does that make sense?

>> Yes. No, it makes perfect sense. I just um I think I was just tired of renting

and giving my money away.

>> Totally understood. Well, hold on a second. >> That's why we're here. >> And I love that you shared that with us.

Uh I'm just going to jump in on this one little thought right there. And because that's the that's the mental shift you're going to have to make so that you actually do what Jade is telling you to do. You're not throwing your money away.

>> That has become a cultural

>> It's a lie. >> It's a lie. And it's a statement because some somebody out there created this idea that well when you're renting you're not building equity thus you are burning money. Well that's not the case because as Jade laid it out for you um

and what you've been doing up to this point and and renting further is not

throwing money away. It's actually giving you options for the future. But if you strap yourself with debt, you can you can say all you want to, well, I'm building equity. Well, no, you'll never see that equity if you if you go completely broke and you can't afford to keep your yourself above water with the house. So, renting is not wasting money

and throwing money away. Renting is putting me in a position for the future that I want. And it gives me actual freedom and options. Do you see it that way now?

>> Yeah. >> You got to believe that. Listen, cuz if you buy into the other argument, you're going to strap yourself with debt and it's not going to be fun.

>> Yeah. So hang in there. Work the plan.

Jake gave you great advice. It will work. This is the Ramsay Show.

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## 113. Money Magnifies What You Already Are | September 3, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:41 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. Well,

as you can tell, we got a brand new studio sponsor and we did a little bit of a new opener. Been working on our opener a little bit. The other one kind of sucked, so we we worked on it a little bit and we're pumped about uh this new studio sponsor, Fairwinds Credit Union. These guys are absolutely incredible. They've been a a partner for a while now. And you guys know if you listen to Dave Ramsey for about 30 seconds that I pretty much hate the big

banks, you know, like why you would do

business with Bank of America and get mistreated the way they mistreat all their customers is beyond me. Why you would do business with Fifth Third is beyond me. Why you would do business with Chase, I have no idea what's wrong with you if you're doing that. I don't get it. because they just they just treat you like crap and you give them your money to do that. Instead, we work

with small regional banks and we've been an endorse endorser of credit unions nationwide for off and on for 30 years since I started the show because I'm a huge fan of credit unions and the main reason is this. Credit unions work different. They're not a bank. They are

nonprofit and the weird thing is the people that are the customers are the members actually are the owners. Now, you don't get to go in there and say, "I want that desk." It's not yours. Okay? You're not that kind of an owner. But you're a stockholder, so to speak, in a nonprofit. Now, what that means mathematically is if there is a profit made, and there has to be for them to stay open, they turn it back to customer

services, reduced interest rates on loans, increased interest rates on savings accounts, and other free things like cool free things they do for Ramsey people all the time at Fairwinds. So, I've been a big fan of of credit unions for a long time. When Fair Winds came along, we started working with them about a year ago and they're absolutely incredible. I love credit unions. You

need to do business with a financial institution that actually cares about you and this is why we endorse Fair Winds and now they've stepped up their partnership and they are our new studio sponsor here for the Ramsey Show.

They've been in business for over 75 years. They served hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. Uh they partner with more than 5,000 credit union locations. other credit unions around the country in a partnership so you can bank wherever you live. So it's totally click and mortar. 33,000 feefree ATMs.

Deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to 250,000. So you got the same level of insurance that you would with a stupid bank. And they've created a combined checking. This is the important part.

And high yield savings account bundle for Ramsey fans. The high yield savings accounts competitive with national digital banks, built for people who want to stay out of debt and uh good place to park and uh get that old emergency fund kicking, right? No credit traps. It's built to align with the baby steps.

Interest rate isn't some bait and switch thing. It's designed to support Ramsey fans as you get your emergency fund and you save with intention.

The new Ramsay debit card with Fair

Winds. And uh this is cool cuz right on

the front of the card, it says dead as normal. Be weird. So as soon as you're checking out, you're going to get a response from the waiter. You're like, "What?" You're going to get a response from the girl at Target trying to sell you a credit card. She's going to be saying, "What? I can't do it. I got this." That's, you know, debt's normal.

I don't want to be normal. I'm weird. Look at my card. Is it here? Can Can I show you my card? Can I show you my card? You know, I mean, it just changes everything, right? Uh it's not a payment method. It's a daily reminder that you're working the baby steps and that you're not going to go in debt. And it is a Ramsey debit card at Fairwinds. So,

you can see why these guys are not typical. They're aligned with us. We're excited for you to have them check to for for you to check them out. And you

guys haven't been around us for a while because we've added millions of people in the past six months or a year. You guys don't know how hard we are on endorsements. We don't endorse everything.

We endorse stuff we believe in. And uh

I've got a rule. I started the rule. I I endorsed a couple things in my early days of talk radio cuz I was broke and desperate that I wished I wouldn't. And I was ashamed.

And one of my friends came up and said, "Would you do that?" And I said, "No, John. I wouldn't do that. >> You're my friend." But I did put it on the radio. Well, that's just that's just lying.

That's just insincere. That's hypocritical. So, I I got it so embarrassed. I said, "I'm never doing it again." And our rule for our sales team has always been no endorsements of any kind for any of our Ramsey personalities unless we're willing to send our mama there, our best friend there.

I tell you to go over there? And if not, if we can't feel that good about it, we don't need the money. We got plenty of money. We're stacking money around here.

It's not a problem. Okay? Profits are not an issue at Ramsey. All right. So, we don't need the money. So, we're very, very selective and very careful. Can you imagine how hard we are to work with if you're in the banking sector?

I mean, just saying it pisses me off, right? And so, can you imagine the poor people at Fairwinds what they have been through? And they're wonderful people, but they they kept going, "Well, you don't want our money?" "No, we we're going we're going to just let this we're going to make sure everything's okay first." And you know what? They they've been wonderful.

They're incredible folks. They do have a great track record and they got great hearts. We've gotten to know the executive team there. They do a great job.

And so we're really excited.

Fairwinds.org/ramsey.

That's where you go. Fairwinds.org.

Nonprofit.org.

That's f aws.org/ramsey.

And I'm super pumped that we now have a dead as normal be weird Ramsay debit card out there in the wild. This is cool, John. >> It's It's very cool. It's going to be the new um It's like the alternative to the black card, right? That that was like, ooh, now when somebody whips out the uh be weird card. >> Yeah. It's like the polar opposite end.

Exactly. >> Yeah. Like I didn't pay $75,000 for this. That's right. I didn't pay $7,500 for this. >> And how cool would it be? How cool would it be if there was a movement across the country when people put their their

Ramsay debit card, their debt is normal

be weird debit card.

>> I'm getting out of debt is what this says. >> But they also knew, oh, these are the most generous folks out there. They're going to tip us well, too. We know these we know these men and women. They're a different character. >> You know what? We need to just to make that an assignment. How cool would that be? Do not get a Ramsey debit card if

you cheap out on waiters. We don't want you. >> No. If you're not going to load up the waiter with your Ramsay debit card, load them up, baby.

The load up who anybody you got. You got to tip heavy heavy if you got this. So, there is a tax on this thing. >> There's a tax, but it's a generosity tax.

And it's a good muscle. I like this. This is awesome. >> I like it.

John, you just invented something right here on the air. >> Well, it's pretty scary. >> There we go. There we go.

>> Pretty scary. >> I get one a year. This is Good.

>> But I I love the idea of waiters walking

back to the back to run the card and then going, "Haha," like showing it to their to the other staff and being like, "I got one >> and they know they're about to get tipped really well." >> I like that. I like that a lot. That's very good. >> All right. So, Fair Winds Credit Union

Studios, that's us now. That's what we're broadcasting from. We got it up in here. It's it's it's on the wall, isn't it? Somewhere. Is it on the wall? It's right there on the wall. There it is. Right there. Okay. And so that reminds you guys right there that we're here.

And uh we're going to be saying this over and over and over and over. I hope forever. And I hope you guys start getting that Ramsey debit card at Fairwinds and you get those high yield savings accounts for your emergency fund at Fairwinds and you get the bundle and the free checking and all that stuff at Fairwinds cuz you're going to have a great response from them. They they love Ramsey people.

They have been taking care of our folks really well for the last year. That's why we did this much increased footprint with them.

card according to Dr. John Deloney. I like it. I like it. Hey, >> this is how you change culture. >> It's a good adjustment. It's a good adjustment. I like Right. Right. Right there. Live. Call an Audible.

Fairwindscreditun.org/ [Music] Ramsey.

[Music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Maria is in St. Louis.

Hi, Maria. How are you? Hi Dave. Good afternoon. I'm great. Thank you. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> That is a great response. I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything that you do. I'm a huge fan of your podcast, YouTube channel, show, everything. >> Very honored to be on today. Thank you.

>> My question is, >> I have about $100,000 in my 401k.

I'm 30 years old and I've been wanting to open up a wedding venue out here in

Defiance, Missouri, which is beautiful kind of wine country. Um, I'm wondering

if I should take from my 401k and put some type of equity into this

wedding venue dream that I have, but of course I do have some lingering debts

and just wanted to get your opinion on do I take from my 401k or kind of where do I even begin with this? Yeah.

>> So, uh, what do you do for a living now?

>> I am in supply chain for a defense contractor. So, you're making 100K.

>> Um, I have a second job. I work at a bar on the weekends, so I do serve. So, I'm probably about 115.

>> Okay. All right. But your supply chain is 100K.

>> 105. >> 105. Yeah. Okay. All right. And, um,

good for you. >> Thank you. >> And the, uh, how how much debt did you say you have?

So, we just bought a house. Me and my boyfriend bought a house last November um for $450.

>> Mhm. >> We have the mortgage. We both have car payments. >> What do you owe on your car?

>> I owe 24,000 and I paid 31

um to the bank. So, I'm a little upset

about the car.

>> You owe 24,000. What other debt do you have? I owe student loans 15,000.

>> Okay.

All right. And um well, a couple things come to mind immediately. One is if you're going to run a wedding chapel, you should act like you believe in your product and you should be married.

>> Correct. We Hey, we looked at rings. We

have a ring picked out. >> Yeah. Okay. Just just before we get going, >> just kind of basic stuff.

I've never heard of a I've never heard the phrase that's a great Missouri wine. What kind of wine do they have in Missouri >> in defiance? Yeah, >> you're not wrong. So defi, it's this they have a bunch of wineries.

It's it's the big like everyone. >> But it's kind of a they're just kind of a little resort area there and it's it's beautiful. >> Okay. It's a pretty area and an excuse to drink some wine.

Yeah.

>> Or have a wedding. Yeah. >> Or have a wedding or both. Yeah. Okay.

So, but there's no existing venue that you're trying to purchase. She would build this. >> I would build this so I would have to buy the land. I would of course have, you know, I everything it would be starting from scratch. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, well, number

one, I I would tell you uh regardless of what what business idea you propose, I would have you get out of debt before you try it. Okay. And number two, we coach about 10,000 small businesses through our Entree Leadership brand. I do an Entree Leadership podcast. It's one of the top podcasts in the small business space. And um we teach them to

not grow their business with that.

>> Okay? >> To grow it slowly. So not going to have you borrow on your 401k. And of course, you know, we're not going to tell you to cash out a 401k and take a 10% penalty plus your tax rate of 30%. Dave, I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest to open a wedding venue. No, you're not.

>> And so we're not doing that either. So that kind of takes those those kind things kind of I start to be a dream killer, but I'm not a dream killer. What I am is a nightmare killer. I want to set you up to win >> right >> at your dream, not to get to the end of your dream and be one of the 80% of small businesses that fail. And that number is actually true.

>> So scary. >> What causes the 80%? The number one

cause of small business failure is called cash flow problems. Now, cash flow problems mean I'm short on money.

Hello. And that usually means I'm in debt and I didn't pay my taxes properly.

>> Mhm. and the IRS is chasing me down. So, the taxes thing you can work on with quarterly estimates and do your accounting properly. It's not the end of the world. And just not just just be sophisticated enough to run your business properly. The debt thing uh is

you you've got to if nobody wants to get married, the banker doesn't care,

>> right? >> If 73 people get married that day, the banker doesn't care. The banker just doesn't care. Yeah. >> It's a freaking banker. And they will foreclose on your little wedding chapel and turn it into a dog park. I mean, in a heartbeat, they'll do that.

>> You know that's true. That's why you're laughing. >> Oh, I Yes. Yes. Exactly.

>> And so, what I want to do is if I'm going to run a business, and I do run one, and we have 14 profit centers, meaning 14 mini businesses inside of the Ramsey Solutions total P&L. So, I run 14 businesses of of sorts. They're all interconnected, but uh I run all of those as the CEO of this place and I've grown it from a card table in my living room.

what we're doing. >> Well, wineries do offer weddings, of

course, but there but there is no wedding true wedding venue. They're more just wineries. >> What's the biggest nicest winery? Put that name in your head. Don't say it out loud.

Okay. >> Okay. >> After John's comment for sure. Okay. But >> yeah, not a Missouri fan. Okay. Go on.

>> We like Missouri. We just never associated it with Napa. And so, um, the, uh, uh, so go over and talk to them. >> Mhm. >> About a joint venture and let them build it. >> Wow. Okay. I didn't even think about that. >> They'll put up the money. They suck at wedding. They're good at wine. I'm excellent at weddings and wedding venues. You can increase your visit. You can increase your visits to the winery.

We'll put it right here on property and uh we'll JV it and you guys own the building. You own the property and I run it for a percentage of profits for you.

>> And let's lay out a model and let's start that puppy uh where you do it at

nights and weekends >> and maybe some days off from your logistics. Don't quit yet. And let's get 50 $60,000 income $80,000 of income coming into your pocket. Mhm.

>> before you quit your job.

>> Okay. >> We always say pull the boat up close to the dock before you so you can step in

rather than make the leap. People that make leaps get wet.

So get your income from the wedding venue up and let's figure out a way to do this where you it you don't have to burden carry the burden of all the downside. And for that matter, these people could start the thing in a really nice high-end tent.

[Laughter] >> Yeah, you're not wrong. >> You could. >> Yeah. >> And then let's prove let's concept proof, right? Let's get social proof for the concept and they got $25,000 or or $50,000 in the tent before we go build $100,000 building or $200,000 building.

And we prove out that we're both going to make bank on this. You're going to get a lot more customers for the winery. You're also going to make money on the weddings cuz I'm not taking 100% of the profits. You got invested in this too.

So, we're doing this together. And do a JV on it and let's prove it out and go

ahead and put in the agreement that someday you can buy them out and you can move it off site.

>> Okay. So, almost like a not not a franchise, but basically just taking >> No, more like an option to purchase.

>> Okay. >> To go to to go with it later. Because if it goes gang busters later or if they ever went broke, you could own it. you went on the real estate, but you'd own the idea, >> right? >> And so, uh, yeah, let let's just kind of e I'm trying to ease into this and limit my risk rather than just take this leap off a cliff and go, I sure to god hope that waters deep.

>> I know it the upfront the upfront cost

of the wedding venue is what is lingering question. Yeah.

>> And you can't Yeah, let's let's start it um >> Yeah, let's start it with a camping trip and go from there. I mean, I think it I got to tell you, I think the um tying it

to the winery could really help the wedding chapel >> and it for sure will help the winery.

>> Oh, yeah. I mean, you could start at the winery and then, you know, move on over to the venue. >> You go ahead and option the piece of ground next door and buy it out. Buy the ground first with some of your profits.

Later, build the chapel. When you get it built, I exercise your option on the business. Move it next door.

>> Okay. So, what if worst case scenario, what if these guys are like, "No, we do perfectly fine. We're not >> Go to go to the other one. >> Go to the next one. >> You just missed out. Your competition is now going to have a wedding venue, and you should have done it. You screwed up.

>> Next one." >> And then get on Amazon and order an Elvis costume and pay some high school

kid to stand there next to you.

>> I'll go run my vows in defiance country.

>> A spinner sign. That's right. >> A spinner sign. >> That's right. >> What are you, Vegas? I'm just trying to think of this is up and coming wine country Dave. >> Yeah, Elvis is known for that. >> Well, that's I'm just saying I don't People get Elvis weddings

>> in Vegas. >> I'm on to I'm just telling you >> you're you just started another trend today. >> I'm starting another trend.

[Music]

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Dan's in Seattle. Hi, Dan. How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so my question for you today is I'm

on baby step two and I have about $80,000 in debt. Now, most of my debt is

through one bank, and they're offering me settlements at about 35 cents on the dollar, but I also owe $32,000

uh to the Department of Treasury, and they just sent me an intent to initiate wage garnishment. >> The IRS? Which one?

>> No, it's through uh the Department of Treasury. >> For what?

>> So, I was in the military. I was in the Navy for about 5 years and I got

discharged early uh for failing a drug test. And so because of that, they're asking for my reinlistment bonus that I

had signed a contract for back.

>> Okay. So you got a reinlistment bonus and how many months later did you fail the drug test?

>> Uh it was two years later.

>> Two years later.

>> Okay. Okay. And the reinlistment was for how long?

>> Yeah, it was a six-year contract.

>> Okay. So, you were onethird of the way through. So, what was your bonus when you reinlisted?

>> Uh, it was the money they're asking for back. It was around 32,000.

>> So, they don't prorrate it at all. They want the whole thing. Huh.

>> They want the amount that they had already paid out to me. That wasn't the full amount, but that was what I had received up until the point that I got >> Oh, they were paying it out to you over the six-year period.

>> Correct. >> So, it is the Pratta amount. Okay. So, overall, had you been there, you would have got 90 something thousand had you been there the whole time?

>> Uh, roughly. Yeah. A little less than that, I think. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. H

All right. Have you tried to negotiate a payment plan with them? cuz I'm sure they expect someone that failed a drug test to have $32,000 laying around.

>> Um I have not. So my plan was because I

know you normally say uh work smallest to largest. >> Yeah. But not when not when you're dealing with the US freaking government with the IRS or the US Department of Treasury. They have the ability to come take stuff from you that other people don't.

So yeah, what I would do is get on the phone with them and figure out if they can if you can work a payment plan with them and that will use up some of the money you're using to get out of debt on the other side. But it also keeps them from coming and taking your wages, which they can do in a heartbeat. They don't even have to go to court. They just got to send a notice. It's like the IRS.

They're unbelievably powerful,

right? >> So yeah, I you need to get that thing settled to create a sustainable situation so you can work your way through the rest of it.

Okay. >> So, we need to get a payment plan with them. They'll work a payment plan with you because I don't think they think they're going to get their money,

>> right? >> I mean, if they let a hundred people go in this exact same situation due to failing a drug test, a hundred of them don't have the money.

Okay. None of you guys are sitting around on 32,000 bucks when this happens to you, right? I mean, other your other friends in the military that that happened to, right?

Yes, sir. It's >> not like you're sitting around, you know, on piles of money, you know, it just doesn't it doesn't work that way.

So, yeah, I um yeah, I'd work a payment plan with them and then with what I've got left. So, I would imagine they'll settle. What are you making now? What do you make?

>> Uh 85,000 a year before tax.

>> Good. What do you do? What do you do now? >> I am a data center engineer.

>> Great. Excellent. And so keep learning and keep growing and keep that income increasing and let's get it all cleared off as fast as possible. What I would do is call them and say this. Hey,

I got let go from the military for a drug test. I have no money.

You really can't get anything, but I would love to start a payment plan to get this paid back. What's the least you would put me on? And put it on the smallest payment possible for now. That

gives you more room to work on the other stuff. And when the other stuff's gone, then go back and pay them off completely early.

So, you know, I don't want you to offer them a thousand and they would have taken 500 a month for right now,

>> right? >> I want them to give you a number. And no matter what they say, practice this with me, Dan. Go. I want you to gasp.

No matter what they say, act like you about passed out and go, "You're kidding.

Oh my. Oh no. Oh my gosh. Oh. Can you do

any better?

And let them negotiate with themselves for a minute. Okay.

You understand the technique?

>> I I do. >> It works.

Especially when you're dealing with a government employee on the other end.

>> And D. Hey, Dan.

Dan, >> you still there, man? Listen to me. This will not go away.

Right. >> All right. And I know the temptation will be like a some buddy of yours is going to have a cool Jeep that he's jacked up. He's going to give it to you at a quote unquote great deal. And someone's going to ask you to get in on Bitcoin or whatever the thing's coming.

None of this is going to go away. So the faster you figure out how to get this cleared up, I would go scorch Earth on my living arrangements until I got the government out of my life. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

>> Okay. >> They are they are unwavering. It's not going to go away. >> Yeah. They're they're the hardest of all creditors to deal with, >> right? >> Cuz they're their own boss. They don't They answer to nobody.

>> Yeah. They don't have to check with a judge.

It's crazy, >> right? >> It's like student loans. They just issue the garnishment. It's like the IRS. They just issue the garnishment. They don't have to go through due process. It's completely unconstitutional, but it doesn't matter. They do it anyway. So, you know, due process is in the Constitution. Not when it comes to government debt. Nope. They just come take it and then they then they go, "Oh, you mean we weren't supposed to do that?

We'll get it back then." Doesn't work. No, it's a pain in the butt. I want to scare you cuz I want to scare you in knocking this out as fast as you possibly can. But in the meantime, put it on the smallest possible payment so you got a sustainable situation. And then work like a crazy man, live scorched earth.

Stay off the dad gum drugs and attack this stuff, man. And get it out of your life. Get rid of it so it doesn't come back. And um yeah, for sure you've got a great career in front of you.

Don't screw it up. Bust, bust, bust, bust. Get those certifications. Data analyst, man.

In an AI world, you are king. You're going to be king of the heap because you're going to be the one telling AI what to do if you learn how to do your craft. Believe me, I got them in this building and I pay them well. So you and they're they're the future.

So they are the future.

>> Yeah, they uh Yeah, that's it. But that's you said AI. But yeah, it that do

it, man. You can do it. Don John's right though. Don't let don't let up until they're out of your life. Cuz this is not going away. And if you look up 5

years from now and you still got this hanging around because you haven't dealt with it, you hope John's voice is ringing in your ear. It's not going

away.

People keep um and this is a little bit different situation, but man, I don't know what it's going to take for folks to stop getting into business arrangements with the government. It just doesn't end. I mean, it doesn't end well because they answer to nobody. They just they're just going to come take your check.

They're if you're going to if you get into the student loan world, you are making a deal with the government. >> Yeah. >> If you don't pay your taxes, >> you don't pay your taxes, you're making a deal with the government. And it's just it's frustrating.

But, man, they win 100% of the time. And

the number >> they got Vegas beat on that. >> Oh, and the number of Well, at least Vegas >> Vegas just wins most of the time. >> Most of the time. That's right. And the number of folks, the students I worked with over the years that just think it's going to go away. It just doesn't. It just stuff has a bigger >> high rate of resurrection. >> That's right, man. >> It will come back. >> Comes back to life. Zombie debt just keeps coming back to life.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Thanks for being with us. Ryan is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi Ryan. How are you?

>> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. So, I'm I've been following your your baby steps and they've been working out very well for me. Um I'm active duty military and I'm on baby step six. My wife and I are on on baby step six and we're just wondering with us moving every four to five years,

would it be wise to put money into the house to pay down the mortgage or to put the money aside in an in a savings or

investment account? >> Well, when you move, you're going to sell the house and they're going to give you a check.

>> Yes. So, put it into the mortgage

and then someday there won't be a mortgage and when you sell the house they're going to give you a check and when you buy the house you're going to give them a check. Someday there'll be no mortgage and you move from no mortgage to no mortgage.

>> All right, cool deal. >> Yeah, for savings plan. Now, a couple of guidelines. Which branch are you in?

>> Uh, Coast Cre. >> Okay. Thank you for your service, by the way. Yeah. So, you're not moving but every five years or so, right?

>> Yeah. Uh we we move every every four we can possibly extend to five.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz a a lot of the army guys are every two. So uh Navy as well. So uh

especially earlier in their career. Um we work with the military a lot. Thank you again. Uh but anyway the um the

thing to be sure of is it's not always

in your case it's more likely but it's not always a good idea to buy.

>> Yeah. So, what you want to be sure of is during your time in the market, is the

property going to increase enough in value to bother to own it.

>> Mhm. >> So, if you're only there two years and you're in a flat real estate market, you would not buy. You would rent.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. You're better off. You're gonna lose money. >> And if you're in a flat real estate market, you can't sell it when you get ready to leave. Now, your postings are

largely around non military base situations. You're in more of a civilian setting, right?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Like you're not going into one of these huge uh forts or uh or uh you know

u whatever these huge military communities where lots of people have bought a house and now they got them on the market because they move every two years. You don't have that issue. You're dealing with more direct consumers that are non-military. So that's going to help you make money on the resale because the market doesn't get gluted.

It doesn't get full.

>> And so yeah, >> you know, so for instance, my my buddies in the Navy that are in San Diego, they do real well on a house, right?

>> But if you move out in the middle of a cornfield in Kansas and there's nobody there but other military people, you're going to lose your butt on the house.

>> Yeah. >> So just be careful with that kind of stuff. Now again, your situation because unique to the Coast Guard is going to be very different because obviously it's res residing mainly around the coast.

And so duh. And um so yeah, that that

puts you in a different thing. And so I I think in most cases it's not going to apply to you. You're going to make money. So buying is going to be a good idea. So the answer to your question just stands. Get it paid off as fast as possible. Be sure when you buy next time you pay cash and pay it off as if you don't pay it off as soon as possible.

and every time just move your equity from place to place to place and then when you someday land and retire and you land in the place you're going to stay in, you've got a paid for house.

>> Yeah. Part of me Dave would be so tempted to rent in the least

in the place where like had the bare minimum where we could live like this is good for us for right now. Um my friends in the military always say, "Yeah, but there's a psychological component. You get moved every few years. It's important to have tent stakes." And I get that. But there's a balance, right?

>> You don't need the Taj Mahal, but you really don't want to be camping either.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a balance. >> It's hard.

It's hard on mama. >> Yeah. >> Hard on the spouses, kids. They need to have a home.

>> Yeah. >> And you're doing this for 20 years. So, you're not better ones. Yeah.

You're just in the military. So, >> uh they do live intense. But yeah, but the uh >> the thought of putting five different houses on the market over the course of 20 years drive me crazy. >> If you're in if you're a corporate gypsy, you got the same thing, though.

>> Yeah, it's true. True. If you're in a corporate setting and they move you every ever every so often and you're you're bouncing city to city going up the ladder in corporate America.

>> You got the same exact thing. But you got to be able to sell the house >> cuz the market you're in. You can't be be buying in a dead butt market. Some kind of market where there's not any activity because it's not going to increase in value and then you got 273 days on the market, >> right?

>> Nine months you're looking at this stupid thing >> and y'all are going to end up renting somewhere else. >> Yeah. Yep. Because you can't get your house.

>> You can't get in. You're going to move twice in those. So it just becomes messy.

It's just being careful about that thing not completely owning you again. Right.

>> Exactly. >> I get it. But man, that's tough. That's tough. >> But it also, you know, you can't apply

the tick tock version of culture.

Everybody ought to buy real estate. No, not really. >> Yeah. >> Not really. There's certain times you don't. It's not a good idea. Real estate's not good when you're playing short game. Short game real estate's stupid. Yeah. >> So, uh, it it gets you caught. It's a problem. Devon is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Devin. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, I am a pastor and I wanted to pick your brain on a possible career move.

Uh, I make 40,000 a year. Uh, and I was thinking about moving into a different career either in plumbing or home remodel. and uh I just I just had some concerns about where we're at financially and wanted to see how you would go about doing that.

>> I mean, plumbing is basically the same job as a pastor is, isn't it?

>> I guess in one area of thinking.

>> Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Wow. That's an interesting move. So, you just burn out on pastoring or what? >> Yeah. My wife and I, we uh coming out of college, we're both 28 years old and we had several jobs right after the other that were all just really hard and uh you know the old expression, sheep bite.

So, um that's just uh we we had some hard times and so spiritually we're needing to take a step back and I like working with my hands and one day I want to own my own business and so those were the areas I was thinking of.

>> Yeah.

Well, they do and that's a shame but they do. You're right. Um,

okay. Well, the the the question is, how can you make the conversion without it being some kind of a leap? Conversion is not the right word. How can you make the transition without it being some kind of a leap? Yeah. Poor choice. Yeah. But the

uh uh uh so I mean like I don't want you

to go make nothing to get to be a plumber. Let's start as an intern or

doing stuff on the weekends or whatever to learn to do that. I don't want you to start from ground zero with no jobs as home remodel. Have you done home remodeling? >> Uh, no, sir. I would be starting from from nothing. >> Okay. All right. Uh, do you know someone in the business?

>> Uh, I I have I have some ideas of where I could I could find some people. >> I want you to edge in and go learn the business somewhere before you just open a business.

>> Yes, sir. I I was I was thinking of uh

specifically with like plumbing or remodeling starting as you know just working with someone else first uh and then moving that direction. >> So if you had someone that hired you to that you don't know anything about remodeling and you're going to go to work for them, do you have you have any idea what they would pay you?

>> Uh no sir, in our area in Oklahoma City, I mean I'm assuming that you know making $40,000 a year it it >> you could probably make that. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So I >> make that shoveling drywall. Yeah.

Exactly. So, I I wasn't as concerned about that. Uh my wife and I are we just finished baby step two.

>> So, as long as you're making the same money as you're making now and you're making it instantaneously, there's no change to your family other than you shifted what you do every day.

>> Yes. I I I think so. Mathematically, if you make 40,000 as a plumber working for a plumber or you make 40,000 working for a home remodel person and you make 40,000 now, you just changed jobs mathematically.

>> Okay. >> Doesn't affect it at all. Agreed.

>> I I agree. I just wanted to make sure that that was actually I wasn't just >> fooling myself and you know having rose colored glasses about >> rosecolored glasses would be I don't know anything about remodeling and I just bought a hammer and I opened a remodeling company.

>> That's fair. >> That would be rosecolored glasses. That would be a fool. But um but I talk to

those sometimes but the uh um but you're not it. And so no, you know, so I want you to if you can make the same money and make your change and then begin to learn a craft on in an effort to say 5

years from now I'm going to make the move into my own space, then I'm fine with that. And there's nothing to say you can't serve in the church for the rest of your life. Most of us do. And uh

sometimes those ministries are as effective as staff.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John

Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Sarah is in Baton Rouge. Hi Sarah, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good, thank you. Better than I deserve, right? Yeah. Amen. How can we help? >> Um, so I am a divorced single mom of two

boys. I am their primary caregiver. And,

um, one day I would like to remarry, but I am slated to inherit at least like $5

million of today's value. Hopefully, I

won't inherit it for another 20 years.

Um, but I just wanted to know y'all's thoughts on a prenup if that was something that would be good for my situation or I wanted to know what y'all thought about that. >> In your situation, I do recommend it.

>> Full disclosure, when I first started the show, I said never get a prenup. If you like stuff more than the person, don't get married. Marriage is hard enough, right? >> That was kind of my stance. But then after doing about I don't know two decades of financial coaching and crisis counseling where I found a bunch of weirdos involved I um I changed my

stance on prenups and the reason I changed it was what I discovered in actual reality out here walking around in the wild is that where there is a dramatic amount of money difference

or just a dramatic amount of money >> right >> the prenup not only helps the actual married couple, but more importantly, it helps the weirdos in their family.

>> I didn't think about that. >> And so, like, you marry a beautiful, wonderful man and cousin Eddie shows up and wants to open a pizza parlor with your money, >> like a day after the honeymoon, >> right? >> That's the crap that happens. And then your beautiful, wonderful man just goes, "Cousin Eddie, I got prenup. I can't say nothing." and you just look at cousin Eddie and go you can have a biscuit

>> and then we're going to send you on your way and you know that you can just you can deal because the weirdos in one ring or two rings or three rings out sometimes it's the parents sometimes it's the kids sometimes it's cousin Eddie I don't know who it is but the weirdos were the and then what happens is they drive a wedge between you and your spouse >> right relation that's what I didn't want to happen >> and the prenup is not to protect you from this wonderful man you meet, he's probably okay.

>> That's the goal. >> Yeah, but I mean that really you probably got pretty good taste, right?

And so that he's probably not the problem. It might be, but you know, but the 5 million versus he's got a normal net worth of, you know, 4 500,000 or nothing or whatever and he's just a good dude that works hard and saves his money and pays his bills and whatever and, you know, and you guys love Jesus and you're going to church and life is good, right?

Everything's good. So, y'all y'all will be fine, but this just keeps everybody

clear. But it you shouldn't do that on

small amounts of money. Like, I had one lady call up and say her boyfriend wanted a prenup for his uh 1967

Mustang.

And I'm like, "Hey, don't marry this guy. He likes cars more than he likes you. >> A stupid car? Really?

>> No. Oh, that's that's just that that is that's planning your divorce right there. That's different. >> All right, Sarah, I want to ask Dave a question on your behalf. Okay, >> great. >> Dave, if you're Sarah and you somebody

sets you up and you roll your eyes like I'll go and you have a great time, you go out again and you go out again, when would you sit down and say, "Hey, I got

$5 million in an account." Would that be something you wait till you're engaged to talk about? Would that be something cuz my >> they would not get engaged >> before they knew before? >> No, way before that. But I mean at the same time you would talk about anything in your account like you know how let's

start talking about money. Well, you don't do that on the first date. That'd be weird, >> you know. But I mean once you start talking about using language in your sentences about spending a lot, >> building a future together. >> Building a future together then you start going well that includes let's talk about your crazy mother.

>> Yeah. Let's talk about your uh let's talk about, you know, what do you feel about debt? I can't stand debt. I did that Dave Ramsey thing. You know, some people do that on the first date. That's strange. But um but the uh uh uh but

yeah, that uh I think it's strange. But the the Yeah, I I think as you're as you're getting serious in the relationship, you start talking about the important things. I want to know exactly where you stand on religion, on money, on in-laws, on kids. They're

going to know about your kids immediately. Uh, and you don't have the five million right now anyway. It's off in the future somewhere.

>> So, >> yes, sir. >> And hypothetically, something could go sideways and you didn't even get it.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's, you know, I definitely try to be a good steward of the money that I'm blessed with and I know that this is not money that I've earned, so I don't expect it.

>> Yeah. I count on it.

>> I I just I you know, and I would just say it has nothing to do with you. I've just gotten good counsel that says all the people in our lives are it gives us a boundary with them if we have this done. Yeah. I I think when you start talking about the important things in life, the money would be on the list.

>> Yeah. >> Not because money is important, but because what it represents. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know. What do you think? You're the PhD in counseling. When should you bring it up? No, >> I think you're right. I I

think I which this is me personally. I think I would always be haunted by

did that accelerate our relationship?

Did that get you more excited to marry me? Which for myself is is my own red

flag. It would be a me red flag, not a them red flag. But um >> yeah, >> I don't know. There's something like I'm a romantic at heart and there's something cool about my wife getting married and her being like, "Oh, by the way, when I told you we were well off, like we're here's here's the number." That sounds awesome.

That's not reality, right? >> No, that's some kind of book you know fiction book. Yeah. >> Exactly.

So, um, yeah, I think you have to put on the table and I think you have to get through the initial discomfort of maybe him thinking, "Oh, I wanted to be the macho bread winner and suddenly I'm marrying somebody who's a multi-millionaire." Or vice versa, you putting the discomfort on the table. I'm I'm nervous to say this out loud because I'm I'm afraid you're going to like me more just cuz I've got this inherited wealth >> or it's just going to cause weirdness. >> Yeah. It's just going to cause weirdness.

Yeah. But >> money does that. But it all relationships have to get through weirdness and awkwardness and dis an uncomfortable conversation. So it's just another one in a long list of uncomfortable conversations anybody getting together is going to have to have.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's always going on. >> That's right. >> Yeah. So Sarah, you know, it's interesting. I tell people when we're just talking about money in general that wealth magnifies everything, the good and the bad.

So like if someone has a temper and they become wealthy, they become a bully.

>> Crazy. >> If someone is compassionate and generous and they become wealthy, they become what we call a philanthropist and they're constantly known for their generosity.

>> That becomes their personal brand, you know. And so if crazy is in your family,

>> and all of us have crazy in our family.

>> If you don't think you have crazy in your family, it's you. Yeah. So, I mean, everybody's got crazy. So, crazy in your family is magnified. And so, that's what I'm looking at with this 5 million. It's going to magnify everything. It's going to magnify the awkwardness that John is talking about in the dating relationship. >> It will. And you know what? You just said something important. I would actually relationally lead with here's who I am. I'm a person who tips like crazy. I'm a person who gives to my church or to charitable organizations.

That's who I am. I would lead with the identity part early on in a relationship as we get to know each other. Yeah, >> I'm a person who doesn't borrow money >> that way. That's right.

I'm a person that borrow money. >> I believe in saving money. I believe in living on a plan. >> That's right.

And then >> I plan my budget. I plan my time. >> How much money I got? Yeah.

I like >> then later on and Oh, by the way, my my mom and dad are rich. Yeah. They left me a bunch of money when they died. So there you go.

That's way down the list, though.

[Music]

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Abigail in Indiana. Abigail writes, "My husband passed away very recently. I'm sorry. I

have a problem with family and friends who have started asking for personal items that belong to him. Some of the requests are for sentimental reasons, but there are also requests for things that are of monetary value. I'm still grieving and not ready to make these decisions right now. What is the morally right thing to do?

>> I'm still grieving and I'm not ready to make these decisions right now. >> That's right. >> No.

>> Or I'm not doing anything. I'm not giving away anything for nine months.

And um I'll get back to you.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm I tell you what, I'm keeping a little list and I'll put you on down the list, but right now I'm just crying.

You have no moral obligation none >> whatsoever. >> Zero >> to start handing out stuff.

>> Um especially um it just feels like false circling

does feel gross >> like Yeah. And everyone grandma's China.

>> Yeah. Oh brother. It's like a bad Hallmark movie. Um,

>> and by the way, if if the if somebody says, "Oh, I was really hoping to get that though," then they've crossed their name off the list. >> The friend that says, "Hey, we used to go hunting together and he had this awesome rifle. >> Can I buy it? >> I would love to buy it from you. Um, or

>> when you're ready." >> Yeah. Yeah. And you say, "Hey, in nine months I'm not ready." Like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I'm going to make sure all his other friends know." That's that's somebody put a star by on their name. Um, but if someone's like, "Oh, really? I thought >> I deserve this." >> Yeah. >> You deserve this. promised me I could out. Yeah, man. Gross. Gross. Gross.

That's hard. >> People, this is gross. And she says, "Passed away very recently." >> Yeah. This isn't like a year. Sounds like a month ago or like a couple weeks ago. >> It's like three days later. Here they come. Want my casserole dish back and I want grandma's Bible. Yeah. I mean, come on. Wow.

Yeah. It's um So, the the the other side

of this is funny. Sharon's dad is 96,

getting ready to be 97, in perfect health, in perfect mind. He's a wonderful man. And he is so funny. He's

like, "Everybody get you a sticky note and put something on." >> That's how my grandparents were. >> And so you go through the whole house. There's freaking sticky notes on everything. >> That's how my grandparents were. >> It's like, "Oh, somebody got to that one before us." It's like, >> you do underneath it. You had to do it underneath the picture. >> Oh, it's on the back of the picture. >> So you had to look and stick >> on the back of the the And it's so

funny. It's like Yeah. Uh,

>> but hey, I I actually like that it's first come, first serve. You want to come visit me? >> Well, and he's doing it. He's initiating it while he's alive. That's right. It's that's like his will. That's what my grand part of his will. >> Yeah. >> It's just It's funny.

>> Yeah. >> Like, y'all want something? Here's some sticky notes.

>> Well, it keeps the fighting down. >> I'm trying to just imagine imagine the conversation of me calling even one of my closest friends, sp wife wife. The chances of me asking for something is zero. >> I just can't imagine. I'm trying to figure out how to have that call. >> How How about how would you The only conversation is what I can give.

>> How can I help? >> What What can I do? How can I help? >> Okay. By the way, he had that shirt I really wanted. Like I can I have the Can I have a sofa? >> That fishing tackle? Yeah. >> Jeez Louise. >> Golly. What are you people? It's unbelievable. >> Gosh. >> Tiffany is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Tiffany. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. This is exciting. >> Exciting to have you. How can we help?

>> Great. Yeah. So, my husband and I along with my mom, we are planning to move to Florida to be closer to both of our families. We unfortunately lost my dad back in December.

And so, this move was put us close to my brother and his family. And then my husband's family just moved down to the same area um back last fall. >> Wow. >> Um my question is my Yeah.

Um my husband and I, we are both 43. We are in baby step two. Uh we've been tackling our debt very hard this year. We've already paid off about 25,000.

We have 65,000 consumer debt left.

is when we get ready to make this move, because we do have two houses that we have to get cleaned out and sold. When we are ready to start, stop, stop, stop.

We don't have anything. Do you own a house?

>> No. What? Um, I we we have a mortgage on

our home. >> I mean, you have a house. You and your husband have a house. And then your mother-in-law has a house.

>> My mom has a house. Okay. So, there's not We don't have two houses. She has a house and you have a house.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. All right. But you're going to help her with the clean out and all that. >> We're going to help. >> But this is not We're not turning this into a commune. Okay.

>> No, no, no, no. Um, they were married for 55 years. They have 55 years worth of stuff. >> Oh, God. Hoarders. Yeah, I got you.

Okay.

>> Um, on an acre of property and four buildings. So, we have some work to do there. >> Okay. That but that's just helping her move. Okay. And then you got to sell your house. So what is your house worth?

>> So our house we right now we're anywhere between 100 to 120. We're expecting to make us a profit on the sale of our home. >> Oh, so it pays off the 65 and you got some money to move with.

>> Correct. Um, which was my question is, do you suggest that when we are ready to, you know, get a little closer to this, which the goal is to start working on this in January, that we pause our baby steps and stack up cash knowing that there is going to be expenses to move from >> they're going to give you a check when you sell your house,

>> right? >> You don't need a stackup cash. You're getting you're getting $100,000.

>> Okay. >> Right. >> I wasn't sure. I knew Yes, we're going to get the money. I just didn't know if to be proactive to have a little bit of saved up, you know, before we do that.

So, I wasn't sure. >> Here's the issue. Okay, here here let's pretend that you pay that you save up $10,000. Okay.

>> Yes. >> And so, you don't pay $10,000 worth of debt. >> When you sell your house, that's $10,000 more of debt you have to pay.

>> Correct. >> So, you didn't really gain anything.

>> No. So, it's like six of one half of the other. And that's what I wasn't sure on. like I I was I think just looking crunching the numbers too much and just driving myself nuts to that. >> So what I would do is is just make the move 100% debtree and have an emergency

fund if you have enough left after that to put a down payment on a house in Florida buy. If not, you may have to rent for a couple years and save up your down payment in Florida, but you're debtree with an emergency fund.

>> Well, here's the other part of the question. with the sale of my mom's home. Um, her and my dad did everything

correctly. She is debtree. She has

already discussed in gifting us on the sale of her home, gifting us um money for the down payment for the house in Florida.

>> Is she going to be living with you?

>> Yes. >> Oh, complicated.

>> Oh, yeah. A little complicated. >> Yeah. No, Do you have siblings?

>> Yeah. That's why they're moving. >> We do. Um, >> yes, I have an older brother. This is something we have discussed. This was this process of moving was something that my dad had very much wanted to do.

That was the goal. Unfortunately, his health just didn't hold. >> I would just I would get it I would get it all in writing just to make sure everybody's clear. >> Yes. >> Um, >> yeah, we're getting it. >> If you take a portion of Is it just you and your brother?

>> Yes, it's just my brother and I. >> Okay. So, if you take a let's pretend that there's a half million dollars of inheritance when your mom passes away,

>> okay? Your brother's going to get 250, you're going to get 250, but she's going to give you of that 250 upfront before

she dies. >> Correct. >> Then that uncomplicates it greatly. If she only has 150 and it all goes in your house and your brother gets screwed, unless you resell your house when she dies, this is not a good plan.

>> No. that and we've we've looked at it with the financial advisor she has there there is enough right now without factoring in any interest that grows on any of her IAS and all that that >> your brother would be easily getting half without touching your house you live in >> okay correct >> that makes it a lot cleaner >> then all she's doing is advancing you part of your inheritance and she's going to live with you in return for the advance yeah >> okay that's cool that's cool yeah but that gives you a real incentive to get everything cleaned up and shiny and let's get it All sold off.

Let's >> load up the truck and head to Beverly Hills. That is swimming pools and movie stars. Black gold.

old to know what that is. You got to be really old right there.

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free stage. Eladio and Carla are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi John.

>> Welcome. Good to have you guys. Where do you live? >> We're in Los Angeles, California.

>> Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville.

Good to have you. and here to do a debt-free scream all the way across the nation. So, how much debt did you two pay off? >> With your advice and with God's grace, we paid off $312,000.

>> Wow.

How long did this take?

>> Five years. >> Five years. >> Very cool. >> Wow. It's amazing.

>> And your way, y'all are impressive. Your range of income during that five years, >> it was 100 to 130,000.

>> Cool. And what do you guys do for a living? Uh, I work for um UPS and also in a

restaurant. >> And I'm a physical therapist assistant.

>> Very cool. What kind of debt was this?

312,000. >> It's a mortgage. >> The mortgage.

>> You have a house in Los Angeles that's paid for. >> Yes. >> Y'all really are weirdos. I love it.

>> Amazing guys. >> Great weirdos. Awesome. What's the house

worth? >> About 600. >> 600,000. Yeah. Amazing.

>> Congratulations. Thank you.

>> You You guys You know that in California it's illegal to own your house. >> I know. >> Yes. We've heard. >> Oh my gosh. This is great, y'all. I'm so proud of you. >> What in the world? This is so cool. And

And how old are you two?

>> We're 39.

>> 39 years old. You have a paid for $600,000 house in Los Angeles, California. How much in your nest egg in your savings? Your retirement savings?

We haven't checked or autopilot. We forgot about it. >> About >> have to check >> about. >> We're not millionaires yet. >> Not what? Not not not 400k then.

>> No. >> Okay. Cuz there's 400k with a 600k house. You be baby steps millionaire. All right. But you're you're on your way at 40 years old. You're almost there.

And you're saving like crazy. You're working two jobs. You're doing everything. Very neat. And you paid off your home in five years. That's worth 600K. What in the Tell me how y'all got started on all this Ramsay stuff. So, how we got started, uh, seven years ago, um, it was, you know, a co-orker that

introduced us to the baby steps. His name is David, and he got me started on the on the financial piece online, the self-study. And so, I tried to get my husband >> on board. Uh, he resisted, you know, he wanted to do his own thing. Um, but what finally did it was the biblical principles that you teach. So yeah, you

know, his word, God's word never returned empty. And the word just started to transform and edify our lives. And I was just starting my Christian walk at that time. So Oh wow.

>> Yeah, it was really the word. >> What church do you all attend in Los Angeles? >> Uh it's in Pomona. Um and it's called

>> Spanish. Spanish church. Okay. All right. >> And so obviously you're a Hispanic community. What What country were you from? >> Uh from Mexico. >> Mexico. Awesome. Very cool. What part?

Uh, Guerrero. >> Oh, yeah. Fun. Okay. Cool. Cool. Good deal. >> So, what was it like? Your wife comes in and says, "Hey, I went to church.

>> You can't buy anything. No clothes,

cars. We're getting out of debt." >> It's kind of hard to do that.

>> But she she made it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> what do you do for UPS?

>> Oh, I work on a on the airport.

>> Okay. So just moving the the cans to the

airplane. >> And then what do you do in the restaurant? >> Uh like uh help to the servers.

>> Okay. All right. Okay. So here's what's important. Um and you're a you're a physician. You're >> physical therapist. Assistant physical therapist. >> Yeah. A tech assistant PT.

>> So y'all neither of y'all are working executive jobs.

>> No. >> You're not working upper management jobs. Y'all are out there grinding it out. >> Yeah. And we started from nothing. like poverty. Like we were living off of his income as a cook before

>> before he like moved up and um Yeah.

>> So you're throwing boxes and helping servers >> and you're >> I was in school >> dealing with egos, right?

>> Yeah. >> And I mean you're helping clients.

>> No, >> y'all are grinding it out.

>> Yeah. He's had two jobs for forever.

>> But this but this but you you know as well as anybody that the story is you cannot get ahead. You can't do it.

>> Yes, >> it's impossible. You can't do it. Nobody can do it >> unless you are one of these these special unicorn jobs.

>> And you guys you guys just did it.

Anyway, hold my hold my beer. Here we go. I mean, this is incredible. >> Glory to God. >> Amen. Way to go, God.

>> Yay, God.

>> I'm speechless right now.

>> It's so cool. >> What y'all have accomplished is so amazing. >> Yeah. You're heroes. You've changed your whole family tree.

>> Um and your proof that your proof that uh the great American dream is alive and well. >> Yes, it is. >> Very proud of y'all. Very proud. >> Anything is possible with Christ.

>> Amen. >> Well, in two jobs for five years also like grinding and grinding and grinding.

>> A diligent prosper, Proverbs says. So, there we go. Excellence in the ordinary over time. That's diligence.

>> Yeah. Way to go, y'all. Way to go.

Impressive. All right. So, when one of your friends comes up and he's making fun of you when you're moving some boxes around at the airport about about you uh bringing your sandwich so you can get out of debt, right? Uh and he goes, "Ah, you can't do that." You say, "Yeah, you can. All you got to do is What do you tell them the main thing you got to do to get out of debt?" >> Well, just don't spend anything. If you

don't need it, you you don't have to spend your money.

>> Would you please run for Congress?

>> Please. Please. Wow.

>> Please, we need you desperately. Helio, we need you.

>> It's amazing. If you don't need it, just don't buy it. >> Tada. >> In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has.

>> Wise people save money. H. You got it, man. You're a wise man. You're a wise man. >> What's What's the one thing that >> You married a wise woman. >> You wish you could have bought >> maybe his a truck before, but he still

doesn't have it. But >> yeah, he's been wanting a truck. Now, now you can save up and get one pretty quick, huh? No house payment. >> We had to cut a lot of things.

>> Do what? >> We had to cut a lot of things. >> Yeah. Now, now you What's the first big thing now that you don't have a house payment? What's the thing you're going to go buy right now?

>> Um, we're just going to uh do a couple house projects, pay cash for that, >> and travel a little bit more.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Breathe a little. Yes.

>> Cuz you've been you've been getting it. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. You've been shoveling hard.

>> Yeah. >> So, way to go you two. I'm very proud of you. You're heroes. >> You're amazing. Those two beautiful children there have had their whole lives changed and your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren's lives have been changed because of you paying a price to win. You're amazing. Very cool.

All right, bring them up and introduce them. I want to meet them. What are their names and ages?

>> Amy, she's 10 >> and this is Kate. She's seven.

>> Oh, they're beautiful. All right. Very cool. Very cool. I can tell I think they're daddy's girls.

>> Hey. Hey. I'm about to I'm about to say something. When you watch, if you go back and watch this YouTube, watching a dad smile that big as he watches his daughters >> is one of my favorite things in the whole wide world. Seeing a dad so proud of his two beautiful daughter. Amazing.

Man, you guys are just >> Yeah, we're very proud of them for being with us during our struggles and living this experience with us. >> Yeah, they'll remember. They'll remember even being here >> and doing that weird debtfree scream thing with that weird hillbilly guy in Tennessee. Yeah, but that that marked the time. This is the time. Your whole thing has changed now. It's all changed.

And you did it very, very well.

>> Ready for the sandwich generation?

>> Amen. Amen. Well, there's that. But, but

we but we can put some meat on the sandwich. I'm just saying. All right.

Very good. All right. Alio, Carla, Amy,

and Kate from Los Angeles. $600,000

houses paid for, $312,000 in debt paid off in five years working at UPS and as

a cook in a restaurant. and she is a uh

physical therapist assistant or PT >> PTA. >> PTA. Okay, perfect. Yeah, cool. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> Ready? Three, two, one.

[Music]

>> Wow.

Boom.

Yes.

It never gets old. I've been doing this 30 years and I never cease to get choked up. Especially when somebody that works that stinking hard to make this happen.

>> That one got me. >> That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. [Music]

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[Music]

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to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Amy is

in Philadelphia. Hi Amy, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Great. Um, I have a question. I have a

rental property and um I've had a tenant

who's been in there for three years and she just lost her job um and she wasn't

able to pay August rent and I'm trying to follow up with September rent and I

want to be you know aware of her situation but um I also just wanted to see maybe how you would handle um you

know not getting paid her portion of the rent um and what I can do to work with

her portion of the rent.

>> Yeah. So, there's three tenants. Um, and

the there's three tenants and I just charge a monthly fee. However they pay for it, they pay for it. So, they just split it up in three ways is how they've been paying for it. >> Um, so the other two are paying their rent. Um, but the other one, um, you know, she lost her job. So, >> do you have a lease with the three of them in total or a lease with >> Yeah. each individual.

>> Um, three of them in total.

>> Okay. So, the only way you evict is all of them.

>> Correct.

>> And the other people are sitting there thinking they're current.

>> Uh, I think so. >> Because they think they paid their part and they think you're okay.

>> Yeah. I talked to her and see if she wanted to bring the other like if I should bring the other tenants into it.

>> Oh, definitely. They're on the lease.

They're going to get evicted with her,

>> right? >> Yeah. So, they need they needed to have already been in the loop like as immediately as soon as you were.

>> So, okay, guys, here's the thing. The three of you have together >> told me you're going to pay me x number of dollars. >> You chose to split it up three ways.

Okay. So, you are behind on your rent group.

>> Okay. >> Because of her losing her job.

Now, do you guys want to come do you guys want to come together and cover her until she gets a job >> or how are we going to work this out?

>> Right. >> You need to sit down with the three of them. Are you near the property physically?

>> I'm not. Um I'm about 2 hours away.

>> Okay. Then get on get a phone call with all three of them on the phone and say, "Here's what's going on. I probably should have brought you into the loop a little bit sooner because you probably feel like you're current and you're not." >> Mhm. Okay. So now then from that position once we've gotten clarity on where we all stand that either we all

three pay all the rent or we all three can't stay longterm. That's our solution. Now then from that point everybody's on the same page. Everybody can talk and then you can decide how much mercy and grace you want to mo dole out.

Okay. >> You've already doled out a month of one/3, >> right? >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you're getting ready to dole out another month of one/3 >> like today.

>> Correct. >> Right. So, this is this How long are you going to go along with this before she goes and gets a job doing door dash and pays her dad gum rent?

>> Yeah. Um I

I guess I don't know that. You need to know you're going to get taken advantage of if you don't know. I don't care how much generosity or mercy you want to extend. It doesn't bother me a bit >> because I do the same thing. We had a tenant that had cancer and we didn't charge them rent for 4 months.

>> But we said at the outset when the chemo starts, we're going to give you four months and let's see how this goes.

You've been a good tenant for 3 years.

We're just going to forgive the rent.

We're not going to charge you. You got enough to deal with. I don't owe any money on the house. You can live here free for four months. And after four months, we're going to revisit in in the third month before we decide how long.

But we're not going to do this for eight years while you go through chemo.

>> Right. I guess like it would say for me it would probably be 3 months because I do have the security deposit which would cover like her third like if she didn't

pay for three months. >> Yeah. Okay. So, you know, it might sound like here's what I want to do. First thing I want to do is shock them. Stick them with a cattle prod. All right. And get everybody on the same page where they're going, "Oh no. Oh crap." Right?

And we go, "Okay, wait a minute. We are all getting ready to have to move cuz June doesn't have a job." Right? Or whatever her name is. Right? And so we got to figure this out together. We have a problem. Not June.

>> All right. And not Amy. Amy doesn't have a problem. Amy's getting ready to get her house back. So, um, now now based on

that, guys, here's what I'm willing to do. you guys get together and figure out a way to cover September and October

between June working part-time jobs while she's looking for a full-time job and you two chipping in and I'll forgive her portion for August.

>> Okay? >> Or something like that.

>> You can offer a gift but only in context

of a limited arrangement.

That also does that make sense to you?

>> Yeah, it does. It does because like I mean I've already gone without in August. So, >> yeah. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. And and you're you're probably going to go without in September unless you get on the phone today.

>> And so, but you guys can you guys can catch me up a little bit later in September, but the three of you between a part-time job and the two of you catching on to what's going on here need to come up with September's rent. And you two go ahead and send me your two/3s. We got to come up with June's third. and and then y'all figure out between now and October how to do it and y'all get current and stay current and I'll in return I'll forgive onethird of this uh just to try to help y'all make the corner.

Listen, there there's not a program where she stays free anywhere.

>> Homeless shelter, right? But that's it.

And Amy, her roommates, her friends are

going to be an infinitely more influential voice in her life than yours. You have an onoff switch.

You have an either or switch.

>> They can sit down with her and say, "Hey, we love you. We're going to help you with your resume. We're going to call our friends. We'll see if we can get you a job here." But if you're looking for to be graceful for life change, they're going to be closer to that. >> Yeah. >> You you just have a big hammer. And you can be kind and gentle, but firm.

>> Exact. I love that. Okay. And you're not being firm right now. You've been very vague and unclear.

>> Gotcha. >> Cuz right now they think they're okay and that's not fair to them. The two that paid their rent, they think everything's cool, >> right? >> And the way you've got this lease structured, it ain't cool. They're in jeopardy, too. Right. So, um, it's all it's not, again, we're not trying to be mean, but I first thing I want to do is throw cold water and everybody gets awake. And now we've turned the lights on in the room. And now that the lights are on in the room, everybody can talk.

And we go, okay, now how can we all work together to solve this in a gentle and kind, compassionate way, but a very effective business-like way at the same time. And so, we're going to solve the problem. We're going to solve for the problem. >> And um and and then you're going to put some of it on them. You're going to help a little. I don't know if you give up August or not. That was a suggestion of mine. It's not a mandatory thing. You're not a horrible person if you don't.

>> You're not a horrible person if you give up her third for August and September. I don't care. But I do care for a lack of clarity. You're going to get yourself in a bind. And you're and you're not being fair to them. And I do care the lack of clarity also on the no limitations.

There has to be an end to this because there's no place if you got cancer or you don't have a job. There's no place that you live for free ultimately.

I mean we can be kind for but it's this is not forever. It's not a f this is not an infinite spectrum. There has to be at some point there's an end to it. And that's where uh people remember the

story 25 years later when they don't put limits on stuff that puts us of the Ramsey show in the books.

[Music]

Heat.

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Heat.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John

Deloney, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host.

Samantha is in California. Hi Samantha.

How are you? >> Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I'm good. >> Sure. What's up? How can we help?

>> So, I have listened to you and followed your plan for years. Um, we're currently on baby step six. Um, I'm employed and I

also co-own a business with my husband.

Unfortunately, we're probably getting divorced due to infidelity on his side.

Um, and I will receive a substantial settlement after the division of our assets. Um, with the divorce money, I'll

be paying off the rest of the mortgage.

That'll be debtree. My question is, with the remaining money, should I keep my lifestyle the same so that it doesn't change much for my three young kids and me, or should I save it and invest it for the future and just live off of my income?

>> Okay. So, one of the things that's being

divested is your half of the business

that you run together, >> correct? Yes. >> But you're still going to be working there?

>> No. So, he would need to buy me out of the business. >> Okay. So what will you be doing for a living then?

>> So I am a nurse. So I I have a good income from that. >> Oh, so you're all you currently are nursing and working in the business?

>> Yes. >> Oh, okay. I misunderstood. All right.

I'm back with you now. And so the

um Okay. So what do you make as a nurse?

>> So I make about 90,000 a year gross.

>> Good. That's excellent. It's a great career, by the way. You get to pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it and make a lot of money.

>> Um, can and you can live on that, I assume, with a paid for house.

>> Yes. Yeah. I've run through the finances and we would be fine.

>> Okay. And how old are your babies?

>> They are five, six, and seven.

>> Okay. And if you can live on 90,000 in a

paid for house, that is not the lifestyle that the 5-year-old is accustomed to.

Um, so they go to a private Christian school. They're in all kinds of sports.

Um, we travel a lot. Um, so it's just it

would be cutting back on some things. It would just be like a little bit tighter [Music] >> for what they're used to. And >> let who's paying for the y'all pay splitting the Christian school after the divorce?

>> Um, that's a good question. He doesn't

love the idea that they're there. So, it would probably fall on me. He would rather them be at a public. >> Well, you haven't negotiated the settlement yet. I don't care what he wants. He decided he wanted somebody else. And that takes a lot of the care what he wants out of the whole thing. So, I don't give a crap what he wants.

>> Um the um once he decides not to behave,

my care for him's gone away. So, the uh

D. All right. So, what do you guys

uh make now? What's your current household income?

>> Um, it's hard with a business. I've like run the numbers for the actual business valuation and it's about 1.7 million

>> the valuation. But I mean, what's your income? >> Correct. >> Um, >> making a couple hundred a year and then you're making 90 a year.

>> Yeah, about that. >> All right. And um, but he's going to be paying child support, correct? Of course. >> Yes. >> Yeah. and substantial in California with

a $250,000 income. And what is the lump sum you're getting? How much money?

>> Um what I've calculated out to be would be um like after paying off the house um

and keeping the equity in the house because I'm assuming I'm going to hopefully be able to stay in the house.

I would get around 650,000.

>> Okay. So, if we pretend like that doesn't exist and we count child support and you live on 90,000, >> we deal with the Christian school and the divorce decree. He pays half and you pay half, >> I think you can trim some of the travel sports back and a little bit of the lux ultra luxury travel back and get your life in a sustainable situation on 100 grand a year.

>> Mhm. >> That's what I would do. I would not touch the 650. I'd pay off the house and then you ought to be able to live on 90 even in California.

>> And believe me, the the ones that are going to be more impacted by the lifestyle cut than anyone is you. And they're going to take their cues from you. They're five.

>> Mhm. >> They don't they really don't like, "Oh, you mean we don't get to fly private?" You know, that doesn't come up with a 5-year-old, >> right? Yeah. Um, here's two things I

want you to be one thing to be careful of and one thing to be super cognizant of. Okay?

>> The first thing is this. You have calculated on the back of a napkin, probably anxiously typing away at Excel sheets or however you're dealing with the stress of all of this.

>> Whatever number you've come up with will

probably not be the final number,

>> right? And the problem with that is if

you have imagined that you're going to get a check for $1.2 million, pay off the house, the 600,000 remaining on the house, and put 650 grand. If you get a check for a million dollar, you're going to feel like he stole 200 grand from you.

Your kids will feel it. You'll feel it.

The whole thing will go south. And so I

want you to open be very open-handed with the imaginary money you're playing with right now because you're going to they're going to get three different >> um evaluations of this business that might range all over the place and a and a divorce uh >> court or a mediator might tell you to take the a who knows how this rolls out.

>> And so it's holding it very open-handed.

You're entering into a very messy, heartbreaking situation.

>> Okay. And I get on your side trying to control every variable because some guy just blew your life up. I get that impulse. Um, and you want to take care of your kids. Mama bear's coming out. I get all that. But just hold the the math part very loosely. >> Not because I want you to be weak in the negotiation. >> Not at all. Be firm and strong.

>> But be I want you to take everything but the uh in the negotiation. That's not the point. Matter of fact, I'd be okay if you got 1.5 when you come out of this thing. So, suits me fine. He chose. It's just an expensive decision what he made.

And so, >> the uh cuz a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction, >> an adversarial business transaction.

>> Yeah. Not a win-win business transaction, but adversarial.

>> Yeah. And so child support, lump sums for businesses, alimony, all of those

things are on the table until they're not on the table and you agree to whatever you agree to in the settlement.

But um we start with I'm holding a winning hand and you screwed up. That's where we start.

>> And so um and and then we, you know, then we decide which cards we want to play, which chips we want to move to the center, those kinds of things to John's point. But don't get all dialed in on a certain number and then only to find out that you missed one of your calculations >> or he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt you don't know about and it's going to who knows what the what what plays out when people start opening up all their bank accounts and text messages etc. Here's the other thing I want you to be very careful of.

people like to say things like, "I I don't want my kids' lives to change,

and you need to exhale." That every part of their life is different now.

>> Yep. >> And so, too late. Fully owning

>> their sports is going to be different, their Saturday mornings are going to be different because now you're going to be working full-time. And so, your ability to just hop in a car and go on a trip or to do this sport or that sport or what, everything's different now. And so trying to hang on to their life as it is and duct tape all this other stuff to it creates an angst in that house that those kids will just permeate their bodies. >> So exhaling and saying the life we had is over.

What life do we want to build with my current salary, with the settlement, with our house or selling the house, whatever, >> we're solving for peace.

Don't solve for trying to keep everything exactly the same as it was >> cuz they know it's not the same. >> It's not the same. >> Cuz it's not the same.

[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

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or just click the description in the show notes. Shannon's in Iowa. Hi Shannon, how are you?

>> Hi Dave and John. Thank you so much for taking my call today. It's truly an honor to talk to both of you. >> You too. What's up?

>> Hey, I am actually hoping that you guys could provide a little bit of reassurance and maybe just uh be that that good sounding board for my husband and I. >> Okay. Um, just to give you some context,

we are currently in baby step six thanks to your your plans and practices. So, thank you for everything you do. Um, but I wanted to kind of get your guys's opinion. So, my husband has currently been on a night shift for about 10 years now, and he currently um brings home about 70% of our $220,000

income each year. Um the issue that we're running into is he is finally hitting his breaking point. Um he's busted his back for the last 10 years.

He's just getting burnt out. We have four small kids at home. Um and he's just, you know, they're getting >> What does he make if he goes to dayshift?

>> Well, I'm sorry. >> What does he make? He makes 150 now.

What's he make if he goes to dayshift?

>> So, it' be dramatically cut. So, we're looking at almost uh 50% in uh decrease.

So, it' be about $80,000.

>> Okay. And you make And you make 70.

>> Yep. Yep. Around there. >> Okay. So, you would live on 150 instead of 220. And you're in baby step six.

>> Correct. >> How much is your house payment?

>> It is $2,100.

>> Well, I don't know why you couldn't do that in Iowa.

>> Exactly. So, just to give some context, I have ran some some numbers and that is

um you know in the in the every dollar that's still putting away $1,400 for extra payment because we're aggressively trying to get out of baby step six.

>> Yeah. What do you owe on your home?

>> You owe 292 and it's valued at about

>> going to be going to be a while. Going to be a while. Yeah. All right. >> Yep. >> That's okay. >> So, how old are you guys?

>> So, my husband is 38. I'm 35. Um and

then that is we are very blessed um with our employer that we do get endofear profit sharing. So last year alone it was about 25,000 which we >> that was not in the 220 you gave me.

>> That is not. No. >> Oh. So that's not your real income. Your real income is 250.

>> No. >> Okay. All right. So um Shannon, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I would I would go to day shifts as soon as I could if I were you.

>> Okay. >> Under one big condition. Yeah.

>> Both of us look at the every dollar budget and agree we're going to live on

that. >> Yep.

>> So, you can't you can't like, oh, surprise. No, we're not surprised. We're like grown-ups. We're looking at the numbers. We are willing to live on this number instead of that number.

>> Yep. And and we're that's our that's our Sunday tradition. We we look at our every dollar budget every Sunday and we are so in sync. Um and I think that >> what does he what's he do for a living?

>> He is um in the manufacturing world. So

he's in a factory, a hot factory. Um

>> Okay. So he's on the line. He's working on the line. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Very aggressive, but he is he is uh a provider. That's that's

what he knows to do. So he's I think he's just nervous. And I show him the numbers, but he doesn't believe me. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to call David.

>> This one's not about numbers.

>> No. >> This is about worth and purpose.

>> Yep. >> And putting away the spreadsheets and

looking across the table and holding both of his hands and looking him in the eye and saying, "Honey, I'm so proud of you. >> We did it. >> We did it. >> We're here. >> You You gave up literally, he's going to die younger for that decade. He worked nights. You gave up years off your life so that we could breathe >> and now it's time to breathe. >> You're a good man.

>> He needs that more than he needs a spreadsheet from you right now. >> Wonderful, wonderful man. >> Yeah, >> he needs that. He needs that. And by the way, he put in his 10 years um he's going to go back to dayshift for about seven or eight months and someone's going to take him for management. He's going to double his salary right back. He's put in his time, >> right? >> He's grounded out >> if he wants it. He may not want that.

>> No, he said he's like, I just want to be holding my babies. I want to be able to be >> You can do that and be a management make double. >> You can do both. Yep.

>> You can do both. >> Yep. >> So during the same day hours that you be on the line day hours. So there's no shame in that.

So here's Yeah, John's right. This is not about numbers. And here's the the transition. When you're in baby steps one through three, you're intense and you work nights and overtime and you live on beans and rice until you get out of debt.

When you're in four, five, and six, where you're saving for retirement, kids, college, and you're paying off your house, you move from intense to intentional. And that's all I'm doing. I'm agreeing with you to move to intentional. Intentional says you can live on 70 grand less.

Whoopde. You're going to get there.

>> Yep. And and that's what I'm and that's what I'm telling him. I'm like, we we can do it. Yeah, I think it's Listen, I want him to grow up enough to look at the numbers and like a grown-up and go, "Oh, the math does work." Not, "My mommy told me it was okay if I come home." >> Yep.

>> But it's different than his mommy. It's his wife saying, "No, no, I want you to come home." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's a totally different conversation.

he's sitting at for 38 in his 401k.

>> It's It's not that. It's not that. It's not that. Touchdown. It's It's not about money. It's not about money. You did it. You scored that. >> We did it. We did it. Yeah. Yeah. We did it. >> We got there. We scored. And And look at the numbers, buddy.

>> Listen, you can, you know, you did it.

We together did it. You sacrificed to do it. Look at the numbers. Be a grown-up.

Go, "Oh, the numbers say I'm okay." That's what the numbers say. My wife says it's okay, but the numbers also, as a grown man, I can look at the numbers and say, "The numbers say it's okay." It's not rocket surgery. >> No. And also, after a decade, if you're

a night shift guy, that becomes who you are. It be it becomes your identity, becomes your gang. And so he's gonna have to shift his his identity. Yeah.

I'm now a guy who works his butt off during the day and then I go home and I'm a present dad >> and I get to, you know, tickle fight in the floor. Hello. >> Exactly. >> Hello.

Thank you. Thank you, Lord. It's a good thing. >> Yeah, man.

Y'all worked real hard for this moment. >> Yeah. Definitely needs to do it as soon as possible. But you got to believe it with the numbers and with the people that love you speaking into your life and speaking blessings over you.

And that's what John's talking about. So that's the way you do it.

Joe's in Detroit. Hi Joe. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Hi guys. I really appreciate your phone call. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Um I have a question about my mortgage.

>> Mhm. >> So I own about 55,000 on my mortgage

right now. >> And I have about 70,000 in a high yield.

um uh fund right now.

>> Cool. Pay it off today. Today. Pay it off right now. >> You have a paid for a house, homie.

>> That's fun.

>> See, that's what I'm Okay. So, my financial advisor, so I'm making about 5.4% on my uh my fund right now. And

>> my mortgage interest rate is only like

three and a quarter. >> Hey, you need a new financial advisor. You need your financial advisor is a >> cuz he's making 3% on the spread, too.

>> He's not making anything. Nobody's making anything. This is 5%. Hey, dude,

look. Look at this. $55,000

times 2% is $1,000.

>> I know. Whoopde.

You can't buy a biscuit with this guy's advice.

>> Well, yeah. I So, for the last like four or five months, I've been putting an extra thousand dollar on my mortgage >> today.

What are you doing? Listen, if your house was paid for, would you go get a mortgage at 3% to invest it at five?

>> I hope not. >> Yeah, I know.

>> Pay it off today and fire your guy, man.

Get you a guy that's got a brain. >> Yeah, bro. Pay it off, man. If you hate it, if you wake up two months from now and you're like, >> Ramsey was nuts. I hate not being debtree anybody on my house.

>> I hate my mortgage. I I miss my mortgage. >> You can go down to a local bank and pick up another one. >> They'll they'll hook you up.

They'll fix you up. >> 30 years of doing this, I've never had anybody call me and go, "Dave Ramsey, I hate you." Cuz when I paid off my mortgage, I just I was miserable. >> I wanted one so bad. >> I wanted a mortgage so bad.

Your advice is so horrible. >> I went and got another one. >> I've never had that one time.

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[Music]

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt free stage, Jennifer is with us. Hi Jennifer, how are you? >> Hi, good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much debt have you paid? >> 205,000.

>> Awesome. Where are you from?

>> Um from Milford, Connecticut.

>> Okay, cool. And uh how long did it take you? Yeah. How long it take you to pay off 205,000? Um when I got focused it

was five years and six months.

>> Five years. Very cool. >> That's amazing. >> And uh what was your range of income during that five years? >> Um started out around 78 and ended

around 165.

>> Cool. What do you do for a living? >> Um I work in the aerospace industry.

>> Mhm. Doing what? >> Um so I'm in the business management side. I you know basically >> So you manage rocket scientists?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. That's good.

>> Is that stressful? Somebody's like it would be tough. >> Somebody's like brain surgeons. Yeah, it is. I have to hold people accountable.

>> Yeah. Who who know way too much. Yeah.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. Well, and if you know how to build a rocket, I assume you just assume you know how to do everything else on the planet also, right? >> Sure. >> So, what kind of debt was the 205?

>> Um, a little under 15,000 for student loans and the rest was my mortgage.

>> Hey, yay. You're a weirdo. A paid off

house. Boom.

>> What's this house worth, girl?

>> Uh, right now it's worth about 415.

>> Very cool. And how much in your nest egg in your retirement? >> Um, just shy of 300,000.

>> All right. Heading towards millionaire.

Almost baby steps millionaire. So, uh, how old are you? >> I'm 45. >> All right. Way to go, kiddo. Congrats.

Excellent. You rocked it.

>> Very, very cool. All right. Tell me the story because you you're all put together. You hang out with rocket scientists and and but you decide we're going to go game on.

>> Five years we're knocking out mortgage and everything. H. How did you get connected to Ramsay? Tell me how this all worked out. Um, so I got connected the first time in about 2005. Um, that's when I uh gave my life to the Lord and heard about it through my church. Wow.

And I gave my life to the Lord and immediately went into uh like a job season. >> Oh >> yeah. Like every time you think it can't get worse, it got worse. >> Oh my god. >> And you know, there wasn't any irresponsibility or sin or anything like that. It was just life happening.

>> Tragedy after tragedy. >> Yeah. It it was really intense. And um my uh pastors gifted me a scholarship to go through um FPU.

>> Oh wow. >> Um but I literally had nothing to work with. So it was like information and I'm a total nerd. So it was always there but I I literally had nothing to work with.

>> And um >> then basically in 2015 I was starting to

kind of dig back out of the hole by the grace of God. Mhm. >> And I uh got this job offer to move from

Kansas City to Connecticut. And I'm like, heck yeah, I'm I'm going to make the move. This is a great opportunity.

>> Um so when I got to Connecticut and I had a real income, which was fabulous.

>> Um I started remembering, hey, FPU, I've

got to get back with that. So I went through a course again. M >> um and then I started building an estate

because when I went through this season, I lost everything. Um literally negative

net worth. I should have been on the upward trajectory of life. I'm a single woman uh by design. You know, I don't have children. I don't ever plan on getting married. And so when you're by yourself and you lose everything, it's

very um it can be very burdensome.

>> That's that's an understatement. How about terror? That's a scary place to be. Yeah. >> Terrorizing. >> Yeah, it it it was. >> There's no safety net. There's no support mechanism >> there. I mean, I was I was staring homelessness in the face. It was very real. >> Um so when I started uh rebuilding um my

instinct was to save everything.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And um >> that's a good instinct. >> I I bought a house. Um the Lord literally tucked it away for me. It's a It's a beautiful original Victorian.

>> It's like a life-sized dollhouse. And I knew I had about a 5-year window before I needed to do some major repairs and upkeep. >> And I was saving away, had a nice big

fat nest egg for that, and was continuing to just pay minimums. And

then I was entering into my uh just before my 40th birthday, and the Lord just really convicted me. and he's like, "You've got money in your account to get rid of those student loans today." And I'm like, "Okay." So, for me, that

was a huge leap of faith because >> when you have nothing and then all of a sudden you have something, giving it away feels like the rug's going to get pulled out again. >> Um, but I trusted him and I did it.

>> Um, and then I started, you know, saving again. It just astounded me how quickly it came back. Mhm.

>> Uh then I uh was, you know, working on

the different repairs um for the house,

saving up that fund and got to last summer and construction prices were just through the roof. They were ridiculous.

Wanting $60, $70,000 to rebuild a porch or $100,000 for 18 windows. It was ridiculous. I felt like I wasn't making progress. So I I asked the Lord. I'm like, "What do I do?" Like, "I've got all this money saved." and he said, "Pay off the house in one year." And my jaw dropped on the floor because at that time my mortgage balance was about 145,000.

>> I pulled 72,000 out of my nest egg, slapped it on the balance, and then every penny that was going to my uh floating fund. Uh I or I'm sorry, my

sinking fund. I put it on I put it on the mortgage and it was gone in uh nine

months. >> How's it feel? >> Uh surreal. Amazing. Like I live on $600

a month. It's stupid. It's ridiculous.

>> And I just rebuilt my porch, which was a

huge project. And >> paid cash for that. >> Oh, yeah. I paid cash for that. I'm getting ready to do, you know, the siding and the windows. I got a contractor that's so reasonable.

>> And when you're standing there with cash and you don't have to do anything, they their reasonableness changes. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. They can tell. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> What an adventure, dude. Congratulations. you you you have developed through this journey a u a backbone of

steel. I mean this we can just feel the strength emanating off of you not only from your faith but just the journey has toughened you.

>> Um and so there's nothing comes at you.

>> You're ready. >> I'm ready. Yeah. There's >> it's pretty cool. >> Yeah. There's nothing there's nothing that can really >> We get these calls about once every two

weeks with someone who's on the edge of homelessness. >> Yeah. >> And hopelessness.

>> Talk to them for a second.

>> I was there. I I'll never forget the day

um sitting on the steps of my house going, "What's the safest parking lot that I could sleep in?" Mhm.

>> Uh my my first home was taken um when

all of the um the big three mortgage companies were erroneously foreclosing.

They erroneously foreclosed on my house and I just had major surgery and I had 10 days. >> It just big orange sticker on my house.

You don't own this anymore. And I didn't even know that they were taking my house. I was current. >> Wow. Um, but it was done. And

the only thing that I knew was I was a about a two-year-old Christian.

I knew that my um, you know, what I'd

learned is that, you know, the Lord is my provider. He can bring me through.

And my precious pastors told me, you

will see the goodness of the Lord in the

land of the living. this is not the end of the story. And I hung on to that. I I genuinely did every day.

>> That's a word right there. >> And >> and it came true, too. >> Yeah, it really did. >> So, we know that was the word. >> Yeah. >> So, I um just one little miracle at a

time, things came together. I was not homeless. I always had somewhere safe to sleep. Um and it was a couple years.

>> Don't depend on the savings account. Depend on me. Pay off the student loans.

Don't depend on the savings account.

Yep. Pay off the house. Y >> depend on me. Depend on me. Depend on me. You've had a steady message.

>> Yeah. >> For that's a decade, isn't it?

>> Yep. >> Or more. It's 15 years. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. 15 years. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. >> What a walk. >> Yeah. And and during it, I mean, it the journey just from, you know, five, six years ago, I had major surgery on my back, you know, 27 staples up my low back and >> Oh, I shouldn't have said backbone of steel, should I? >> No, I literally like literally do backbone of steel. Who knew?

>> Plate. Yeah. >> Be careful with that. Okay.

>> Wow. Proud of you. Way to go.

>> Crazy. Yeah. >> Yeah. You are Wonder Woman for sure. I'm so proud of you. >> Thanks. >> All right. Jennifer from Milford, Connecticut. Like no other. 205,000 paid

off. House and everything in 5 years.

Making 78 to 165 from homeless to there.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 and one. I am debtree.

>> Yeah.

So amazing. Yeah.

Wow, [Applause] man. I'm getting soft in my old age, Dave. These keep getting I've been soft in my old age. I cried an Applebee's commercial.

[Music]

Our [Music] scripture of the day, Colossians 4:6.

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you

may know how to answer everyone. Thomas

Soul said, "We all enter the world knowing nothing, but by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it takes decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know."

Chris is in Memphis. Hey, Chris. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, my wife and I are in Baby Step six, and I'm transitioning from intensity to intentionality. Good. >> Um, and now I want to sign up for a

country club membership at the club where I grew up playing golf with my dad and my brother every weekend because I want to give that same experience to my son who's four and a half right now. Um, and the only thing holding me back is I think would Dave say go do it or would he say it was stupid? And then I thought, well, I can just call him and ask him.

>> Okay. When has Dave Ramsey ever called anybody's Never mind. Never mind. Never mind.

>> So, Chris, uh, how much is the dues or the, uh, initiation and how much are the dues? >> The initiation's 5K. The dues are $550 a month plus $85 for food and bev

$5,000

>> to for the initiation. Yeah, >> that's all.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, I thought that was a whole bunch of money. I was going to say get >> No, there are country clubs. There's plenty of country clubs and golf clubs that are half a million.

>> 250,000. Plenty of them. Nobody's angry.

>> We got the lowest cost living around.

And >> that's good. Okay. So 5,000 bucks and 500 bucks a month. And what's your household income?

>> Uh about 120,000.

>> Okay.

And you're obviously uh putting 15% away

for retirement and you're working on a budget with your wife and you're in agreement, >> right? >> And uh what is her opinion of this uh purchase?

>> Um I I told her, "Hey, um I want to sign

up at this country club. What do you think?" and instead of asking me any questions, she just said, "Yeah, if you want to go ahead and do it." I think um over the last 11 years of our marriage, I think I've just built up a level of trust with her in handling our finances that she she didn't even ask if >> So, she didn't even ask how much it was like I did.

>> No, but I went ahead and told her anyway, but she she green lit it before I told her.

>> She needs to be careful. It could have been a half a million. Okay. Um

but you wouldn't have brought it to her because you're trustworthy. Okay.

Anyway, yeah. Uh,

well, I've got wife agreement. I have money. It's within the budget. It's something you desire to do.

I think people at your stage buy $5,000

couches or $15,000 cars or go on $5,000

cruises or $10,000 cruises, don't they?

And that fits in our our plan. That's part of being intentional in baby steps four through six. while you're hitting your other goals. You just have you save the money to do that and you you know you're pulling 550 a month out including your FNB. But um

uh I

it it fit it it checks all the boxes. I would do it.

>> Okay, cool. >> No, it's not stupid. Um what you're doing is you're thinking through does this affect my life? Do I does it

prevent me from hitting other goals that are more important than this goal? The answer is no.

Because it's a small amount of money in ratio to your income in your situation.

Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just when I say it out loud to people and I'm thinking about doing it, all I can hear myself saying is, "I want to buy a boat." You know, so it it just sounds silly when I say it out loud because, you know, I just went through all the other baby steps and we were super intense and now >> Well, you were intense. So, you live like no one else so later you can live >> and give like no one else.

>> Yeah. >> That's why you did that. And so that's moving from intense to intentional. You You had the right verbiage when you started the call. Okay. Um, it it just

it feels weird because you sacrifice to get here and then the first time you actually draw back and enjoy a little of it or the first time you draw back and have a a sizable generosity move. Like

if you gave away $5,000, you'll have that same emotion.

>> Like it kind of feels weird like am I going to be okay if I do this?

>> That kind of emotion. And that's the because it's a muscle you've not been used to using. You've been using the frugality muscle only, not the generosity or enjoyment muscle. And it's it's it's a it's a new it's new and it takes a little time to get there. I think you do it though. Kate's in California. Hey Kate, what's up?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

Um, so my question is regarding, well,

basically it boils down to at what point

do my husband and I call it quits on a

business venture? >> How long you've been doing it?

>> Uh, about five or six years.

>> Wow. Is that your full-time gig?

>> Um, no. So, let me give you a little

backstory. Um, my husband is a creator.

He's a writer and a comic book artist and he's been working on some intellectual properties that he wants to either uh self-publish or sell to like a

large uh company um and sort of break

his way into the entertainment industry basically. Um, when he first started

doing this, I I told him that I would

not feel comfortable paying for this or funding it with our household income. I said, you know, I'm I'll support you in doing this and trying this, but um you're going to have to go do a side gig or something to to fund it. He's been he's been paying artists to create these artworks for him, basically. Um, so it's

been about 5 years of him doing gig work

like working, you know.

>> So, so he's invested a ton in it and has made no money.

>> Correct. >> So, this is not a business. This is a hobby.

>> Um, >> businesses have a profit.

>> Businesses have profit.

>> Right. And that's kind of my attitude about >> No, that's not an attitude. That's a fact. >> It's a fact.

>> Yeah. Right. His hobby is is imagining a

thing and then hiring an artist to make that thing come alive.

>> But he's made no money with it.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. >> And he's he's just crossed a threshold where somebody can sneeze and a computer can just do it now for you.

>> Right. It it's I mean there's a lot of things about it that are that are becoming frustrating to me and I but

well it's just we have four kids. Um,

I'm I'm the primary bread winner in our household. He He >> Okay. It's not becoming frustrating. He is becoming frustrating. He's been frustrating a long time. And you're entering into resentment.

>> Yes. >> And you need to put that conversation on the table. Clear as kind.

>> The best way you can love him right now is to put all that on the table.

>> Yeah. >> Because he's choosing he is choosing a hobby and part-time gigs over five years.

to uh over his wife and kids and their

stability. It's not even like he's an actor and he keeps getting gigs and he's getting more and he's pushing it and he's go that's not even happening here.

>> This has been 100% outlay. No income.

>> None, >> right? And it's Yeah. And he's, you know, but I I have to say I do I I'm a creative person myself. And so >> this has nothing to do with being a creative. It has to do with being a responsible adult. Creatives can be responsible adults. >> Dave and I are both creatives, but when you make humans, you're you're you also are a creative when you're a parent, and that's where the bulk of your energy goes.

>> Yeah. You get you get to take care of your family. I get to be creative only after my wife and kids have been served.

>> Yeah. >> Or I get to be creative in a way that makes a profit so that my wife and kids are served, right? >> Like writing a best-selling book. That would be a creative thing. But the sell but the book sold a million copies.

Hello. So, there's that. And that's the thing. You got to, you know, >> or I do creative stuff. I play music. I I >> So, we can't just you you are trying to be sweet to his dreamer self. But here's

the thing. I If um you you we love

people who dream. We don't love people who live in them.

You need to do something with the dream.

Leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. So, my daughters were teenagers. if they came in and said, "Daddy, he's the nicest guy. He's a dreamer." I'm thinking, "Oh god, they're going to live in my basement." Okay? So, you don't want to live people that are live in their dreams. We want people who execute out of the dream and turn it into a vision, a goal, a strategy, an implementation that makes money.

We have to feed our family. So, yeah, you guys got some marriage work to do.

Yes, he needs to close the hobby down because it's frustrating his wife to the point she's calling us.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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[Music] [Applause] today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney and

we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at

888255225. All right, we're going to go to the phones and is it Torren from Boston? Hey, welcome to the show.

Uh, hey guys, thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. Is it Torren? Did I get that right? Yep. That's perfect.

Awesome. How can we help?

Uh, so I'm an 18-year-old and I'm a senior in high school this year and I wanted pretty much advice on what to tell my parents about college. I've been watching you guys for a while now and uh I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt. Don't take out loans if you can. Try and cash flow it.

So, I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I live in Massachusetts, so it's a community college is free. But I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where uh it's an 100% acceptance rate after out of the community college I want to go to. And um my parents were very against this idea.

sport in college and go to a private university. They told me that like debt doesn't matter. And yeah, I just wanted to make sure you I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it. They are paying for it. I went to community college. No, they're not paying for it. Yeah, they don't get a vote then.

I brought that up, but they said they're going to be kicking me out. They don't have to pay for housing. They also like take the car and my phone away. I mean, if they want to throw a grown-up temper tantrum, that's like the That's like the most babyish thing I've ever They Wait, I Yeah, I want to know more.

Why? That's so That's so That's so That feels very extreme. Like, it's one thing if your parents kind of like turn their nose up at community college cuz they're very educated. New England.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, "Oh my gosh, can't believe you're going to go to community college." But to kick you out and take your car in your phone.

No, I don't really understand why. They just said it would look bad on resumes and they think I'm making the wrong decision. They said I was being pretty rude about it. So, I think that's why.

Well, if if if I I I have no problem with a parent saying, "Hey, as for me in my house, you're going to this school

and we're paying for it and if you want to go somewhere else, you're on your own." I I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say, "Hey, in this house, we go to Harvard and so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in." I'm I have no problem with that. If

they tell you, you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free. you will go take out loans and put

yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or 20 years of your life depending on what private school you go to. And if you don't do that, we're going to take your cell phone. We're going to take our ball and we're going to go home. We're not playing with you anymore. That just sounds like real childish immature behavior because what they're doing is they're they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just going to sit on the sidelines and holler at you.

I I thought the same thing. I don't I don't really know what their their plan was for it. I I Yeah. Is this out of character for them? Like, were you shocked by this or is this like, "Yeah, yeah, I could see mom and dad doing this." I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18.

They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character uh for them to like to once they kind of like said like my mom said I could keep the car. My dad was very against keeping the car after that. But uh were you being a jerk, dude? Were you being an 18-year-old just like a turd?

Were you being kind and thoughtful?

I will admit for like the first like 30 minutes talk about I was very kind and peaceful and then I started to I was I wasn't as nice as I should have been to them. All right. Yeah. I spent my whole career working with 18-year-olds. Go tell your parents you're sorry.

All right. Go be a respectful 18-year-old son and say, "Hey, I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry. Um I do not want to go into debt for college and I respect your I I respect you want your kids. said, "You want to be able to tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college?" And I I get that you don't you don't like this.

Don't say that. That's disrespectful, isn't it? I know. That was me just having a little bit little bit of a mommy dick, but like um like she wants to be able to go to bridge club and tell like, "Well, my kid is Rachel.

We used to call it we used to call it the uh we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship." I worked at one university. We would lose students. Um we would give somebody a half scholar. I'm sorry.

Yeah. and they would go to another school that cost 50 grand, but they got a $1,000 JV soccer scholarship and we

would lose them, which is a right, it's

a it's it's a $30,000 a year move,

$120,000 move to play JV soccer to so that so that parents could be like, "Oh, my my kid's playing on a soccer scholarship." Right. It costs them money like six figures, right? It's $1,000.

True. But I I would tell your parents you're sorry and then you have to make an 18-year-old decision. Yeah. And Tor, let me say this, too. Okay. Uh, and John's the education nerd. He loves education, so he can maybe back me up on this. Um, just just for perspective, so you're in Boston, and I we have friends

that came from that area, and the way even the the Northeast, I would say, even specifically, the way they view education, there is a there is a high premium, high regard like it is it is everything. When we come to the South,

it's important. Say it, Rachel. It's important, but it's not life. Like like there's a belief of like you can scratch and claw and start a business and be as successful as the guy that has the college degree or that you know I mean whether you go to college or not there's kind of a mic row like just kind of get in there and you you figure it out and you can still be successful but it doesn't have this air about it which I'm not saying all New Englanders have that but I but I do think as an 18-year-old that's growing up in that environment.

Not that we have it right necessarily.

I'm not saying that. But you can be successful. You can meet

people and network outside of a college.

Like there are ways to live life that is not one path of just it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's going to look bad on resumes.

You're never going to get a job. You're going to be homeless and you're going to die. Like that's not the that's not the route. That's not right.

Um so just know there is there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family. And for whatever it's worth, do John loves it. such as but I've I've got a I've got a I think one of the most mission-minded institutions in the United States is can be found inside of community colleges and for whatever it's worth my mom Dr.

Deloneyi was my mother um who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenure full professor. Right. So, so you can here's what you can do with a community college education. Anything you want to

Yeah. Period. Um maybe you have to work harder to get job number one. Fine.

But by the way, you're going to transfer out, right? You'll go to a state school or to a private wherever you end up on a transfer out, right? Yeah. There's a uh yeah, there's a program called Mass Transfer and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in uh community college.

Man, that's good. And and you're right on. And you know, and for fun too, Torren, like just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for, average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off when you if you got out of school with an average maybe an above average salary, let's say.

repay that, starting in a financial hole significantly, six figures probably for this school versus getting through it debtree, doing the free community college, working, saving up, graduating from state school, starting off, and starting to invest the moment you get your first paycheck because you're going to have money and not be in a hole.

Financially from the math perspective, who comes out ahead? Oh, yeah.

Especially Especially getting started.

All right. Yeah. And and for everybody listening, I'm proud of you for think outside the box, but be nice to your parents. Be Yeah. Be respectful. Treat your parents with dignity. Um and for everybody, I love private schools. I I've worked at multiple private schools.

I would love for my kids like I love private schools. I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, "Hey, to prop us up, you go

do this thing that's going to cost you 10, 20 years of your life for making us feel good." I don't like that. Yeah.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're going to Chris in Dallas, Texas. Hey

Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you guys? We're doing great. How can we help? Um, so my girlfriend of just over

a year now moved in about 5 months ago

um from her grandmother's who has, you know, supported her. For context, I'm 26 and she's about to be 25. Um, I do have

a career at the moment and currently pay all the bills and it's kind of become a

weight on me that she isn't really contributing because she doesn't have a job.

Well, she works part-time. Um, in back in February, she started a certification

course to be a farm techch. Okay. Um, and since then she discovered that the certification alone doesn't get her very much in the job market. So, she's working on the test, but it's, you know, kind of slowgoing. Um, so what what did she say

when you sat down and talked to her about this?

Um, she just she just isn't motivated. I mean, um, it's not something that she feels that she needs to do or has to do,

and I'm having trouble with that.

So, that's fair. So, yeah, there's

another adult in the relationship.

That's both of you are correct right now. She doesn't have to do anything

because she gets to play house with you and you pay all the bills. She gets to live an imaginary life together. You know, we jumped the gun on that. I do agree. But the situation did also call for it. her grandmother had to downsize and she on social security so well I mean it is what it is that myself but no no I mean I'm just saying I'm saying I'm I'm not I'm not trying to be judgy I'm just saying she's got a cush situation

and so she's right to say I don't have to because she doesn't you're still you're not I lived with my mother a couple years ago um but I decided I wanted wanted more for myself. That's right. Um so Chris does this change from a relationship standpoint. Yeah.

And this is I mean, call me old school. This is where the complication happens when you act like you're married and you're not, right? And and and you're moving in together, right? And all of it like it it this is what ends up happening that it's not as easy as like, oh, I found this kind of thing about Yeah.

my girlfriend and and this this may be a deal breaker, but I I need to figure it out on a couple more hangouts and now now I'm going to call it quits. Now it's much harder to call it quits when she's when she's living there, right? So, um this is part of that complication.

the kids would call it a beige flag or a red flag uh when it comes to like her

work ethic and who she is? Like are you starting to see other parts of her that concern you for a long-term relationship? Well, the thing is I see myself in her from a few years ago. So, I was, you know, in the same situation was with my mom. Um but I had that

realization. Unfortunately, I don't know how to come how to help her come to that point. So it's two two old married people will tell you you can't you can't

that was thousands of dollars of therapy and you just give it to you for free.

the earlier and quicker you can realize you can't make somebody that you love and care about come to any sort of realization and you can't think oh if I can just have the right phrase the light bulb will come on if I can just have that right that right sit down she'll see it if I just say it the right way or I want something I wanted something more for my life

and now look at me that's not how most of the world works most people want to take the easiest path possible and she has that with too,

right? But my guess is that beyond the money part, like going back to what Rachel's saying, this is an integrity issue. This is a character issue. This is like, oh my gosh, this is going to show up with kids. This is going to show up with when one of when my

mom, yeah, it's always going to be a thing that she didn't want to do it. She's just not going to. And we're seeing that in real time. She doesn't want more for her life. And that's hard to And again, Chris, we're not talking about that. We're saying, "Oh my gosh, she has to like go be this like boss babe and go make, you know, six figures." No, no, no. She just needs to like pay bills.

Well, even even deeper than that. Y'all had an agreement that like forget the working part. Like y'all made an agreement. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Here's who we're we're going to move in together and here's who we're going to be. And five or six months in she's like, "Yeah, I'm not doing that." Were the Were the expectations, Chris, pretty clear moving in or if she was on the phone, would she say, "No, that's not what we talked about." What would she say? Um, I mean, I

had explained that I would take care of her until she got her stuff together, but so the, you know, the agreement was that she would. Um, but now at this point, you know, she's she moved in at her friends temporarily and she thinks that that's the better option, but I don't see that as the case. You said she moved in with her friends. We need to figure out how how to I'm sorry. She

moved in with her friends.

Right. And her friend has all her bills paid by her parents. So she she's moved out. Oh, y'all aren't living together anymore?

As of a few days ago. Oh, did you break up? Did you kick her out? What happened?

Um, no. Just I I confronted her about it again. Um, and she got mad. Sensitive.

Okay. Oh, wow. You've made a lot of more

moves than I was thinking. Good for you.

Well, now I'm, you know, wondering my losses or which that's not up to y'all.

But yeah, I Here's the thing. I want you

to have a a little bit of time just with Chris,

right? And I want you to actually sit down and be honest with yourself. And

it's going to be tough because you're emotional. You feel the pain. You love this person. You care about this person. You had Here's the hardest part. You had plans with this person.

Right? You started creating pictures for tomorrow and this person was in those pictures and then it was revealed this

person doesn't want that same life that you want. And then this person just bailed on you when you said, "Hey, I want to sit down and have this conversation." And so just because something hurts doesn't mean it's not the right move. But I want you to be honest with yourself. And by the way, me and my wife broke up three or four, I don't know, five times when we were dating. So that doesn't mean it's over either. But yeah, and she has popped out

before. You know, she just she gets scared, okay, of her emotions, I think.

And you know, but I think the deeper

question is what's this life we're building together? What's it going to look like? And is she a kind of person you want to build a life with? And I think you having the courage to be honest and say, so far, no. Cuz when the

going gets hard, you kind of just don't want to do anything. And she might say, I want someone that's just going to take care of me and do whatever I want whenever I want it. and I want to be a princess. And you can say, "Amazing.

It's not gonna be my I don't want to ride or die like that." And you get to choose. You both get to choose that.

Right. Right. And that that may mean that both of you end up heartbroken for a season.

Yeah. Sounds like that's it. But I hate it for you.

Well, that's okay. Can I tell you it's um most people wouldn't have the courage to do what you did.

to sit down and say, "Hey, here's what we agreed on. Here's what I want. Are you still in?" And she said, "No." Uh, most people go ahead and go ahead and get married. And they figure this out and you're five or six or seven with two kids when they're just they've had enough.

Yeah. But that doesn't make your pain today feel any better. I'm sorry, man. I hate it for you. That's all right.

Appreciate time. Can I give you uh Can I give you one homework assignment?

Sure. How old are you again? 26. Did you say 26? Write I want you tonight by

yourself. Um, no alcohol, nothing. I want you to write a letter to 30-year-old Chris.

Okay. Okay. And I want you to tell him the things that you started to do today so that he could have the life he had when he was 30. And if she's in that picture, then go call her tomorrow.

But I want you to be clear about what you want your house to feel like. The partnership you have with a romantic partner. And I want you like financially, what is this thing going to look like when you're 30 and what must be true today so you can begin taking those steps. You're just going to reverse engineer it.

But I want you to write a letter to yourself. Okay?

But this it's a way to get your head out of this this immediate pain and this immediate motion and get your head back up on the horizon and say, "Okay, what needs to be true for tomorrow?" Okay.

Okay. I'll give that a try. All right.

Appreciate you, man. Thanks, Chris. Best of luck to you. Yeah. And always remember when you're setting a very reasonable boundary or expectation for someone, you're not being cruel. Like this is this is the world and we have to pay bills. We have to do things right.

So you're not asking this like insane

request, right? I mean this is this is pretty basic stuff, Chris. So I don't want you to feel like the bad guy in it.

I mean, seriously, it's I don't know.

It's it's pretty basic, but I'm I'm I'm proud of you and like really encouraged that you had the courage to set that boundary um in a hopefully a very kind way, which I think you did. You seem like a great guy. So, sorry, Chris, but glad you called in. Hope we could help.

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This is the Ramsey

Show.88255225. Hey, listen. If you are concerned about the economy and you just

see your neighbor pulling into their your your nice middle-ass neighborhood in a car that you like, how do how are you affording that? Why would

you do why? and you just wish people around you had the wisdom of this

show for no money. You don't have to you don't have to send any money. You know, all you have to do is like or subscribe the show. It puts the show up into the algorithms and it kicks it into the feeds of your neighbors, into their podcast feeds, into their YouTube feeds.

It just sends the show everywhere. And the more people who subscribe and like, and I know it's a pain in the butt, and I know it sometimes you have to log in.

It's worth it for everybody. It puts the show in front of more people. And so,

um, for everybody, it's a it's a it's a

it just doesn't cost anything to help out your neighbor. And share share the podcast, though, too. I mean, I get my crime podcasts that I listen to from friends, even here at the office, and we'll send each other podcasts that we love. So, if you love it or if there's an episode you think, "My mom needs to hear this," send it to her, right?

Or a buddy that that h this marriage sounds like yours, send it to them. Be be careful. Make sure to tell them that. Be careful with that.

But yeah, that's right. Hey, let's go out to Honolulu and talk to the Max.

Hey, how you doing? Thank you for taking my call. You bet. How's How's Hawaii,

Max?

It's nice. It's nice. Sounds. You're not Max Holloway, are you? One of my heroes.

No. All right. What's up?

All right. Um, I was calling because uh I something happened where my brother kind of holds a lot of anger towards me because I he got fired from his job and I had to take it over. Um, and I'm

getting ready to move out now and I'm worried it's going to cause like more family disconnect. So, I'm just trying to get some help like navigating the situation. Is it a family business?

Um, it's like it's like a financial and family thing. I mean, or the business.

No, it's it's somebody we know that he worked for. What is it? What kind of job? What kind of business is it? Uh, it's a it's a pool cleaning job. Okay. I take home like about like 50 years. So, it's pretty good. 50 a year. And why why did he get fired?

He had gone on a trip for an extended leave and I was uh covering it for him and the boss at the end of it decided to fire him and offered me the job.

Oh man. So, you did a better job.

I I don't know. It was just like he didn't like break a rule. you just out cleaned the pools and the boss was like, I kind of want you instead.

There were some issues with him and that's was a part of it. I wasn't sure if my brother would even be um let back after anyways, but uh Okay. Okay. So, what what what is his beef with you that that you weren't right or die? Like, yeah, forget these guys. Um is that the

is that the beef?

I think um what happened was he's just feeling like he lost out on a good opportunity. He did. He wasn't a good worker. Somebody to blame for it and it's me. He wants to blame me for it instead of himself. All right. And I'm

I'm okay with that. The main issue is his the money from the job helps um

financially support my family. I come from like a single mom household and I'm 19. I'm trying to move out and be on my own, which would mean that I wouldn't have the same amount of money for my mom anymore. And I'm worried that's going to create even more of a family disconnect.

So, I don't really know what to do. What's your mom do?

She clean. She's a cleaner. She She works like two jobs cleaning. Okay. How much does she make?

Um I'm not sure exactly. I think I think I went over it with her one time. Okay.

How much does she How much difference does she need? Does she like how much are you covering the bills in the house?

I'm contributing about it was about $1,500. I was paying off some debt on the water bill and then now it's like to about 1300. I pay some of rent. I buy all of our food and I I cover the the water. Is she Does she have other struggles, Max?

Um, no. I mean, I think like with addiction or with mental health challenges, do um No, I I don't Sorry, what was that? Did I'm asking does she have No, not not with addiction or mental health.

Okay. So, she just um Yeah. Why Why have

you become the caretaker of your of your of your mom?

I I think it's just it's really expensive here and it's hard to afford

to live out here if you aren't making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Exactly. And I have two the main thing is that I my mom I think she'd be fine

on her own, but I have two younger sisters and that's where I feel weird leaving. I feel like I'm abandoning them.

How old are they?

They're 11. They turned 11 yesterday. M

is it at a point where you need to sit down with your mom and have a hard conversation about the financial realities?

So, I have about six months ago and I've been keeping up. I told her six months ago I plan on moving out in March. Okay.

Um and she hasn't really done any much

action towards like figuring out another situation. So, I don't know like if I should just stay and keep helping so that we can stay they can stay in their house or if I should just go on and you know put my oxygen mask on before theirs, you know.

Man, well, I just feel like Max that I mean you've put yourself in a caretaker's role at 19, you know what I mean? Um for and it's and it's heroic,

right? In one sense. I mean, you've really stepped up and helped your mom, but this will be your whole life unless

something else changes. And I feel like that's unfair to you in your life, in your future family. Um, to feel like you

have to be the one to carry this burden.

And and I understand obviously why that is, but long term, I just don't think it's it's fair for you to play this role.

I Yeah, I think I've I've come to a similar conclusion. And I just feel like I'm I'm like sure what like what Yeah.

What do you do? Does your mom like lose the house with your two little sisters?

Right. Yeah. And then it's like where do they go? We have family here and I'm sure they could move in with my grandparents or something. But hold on, hold on. Your mom also plays an integral part of this. If you told me, hey, my mom really struggles with addiction and my mom struggles with some mental emotional health disorders. Then I would tell you like, man, life handed you a mess and this is it might be a season,

right? It may be that you're going to stay at home for a few years and see these these young girls until they get older, right? That's not the case. Your mom's making some choices on a daily basis as to where she's going to work and how much money she's going to make and what she's going to ask of her 19-year-old son.

And so, you're making decisions for an adult. And that's not your job.

your job is, unfortunately, you've been cast in the role to make sure your 11-year-old little sisters have food and water, which is never your job, but here we are, right? And so, man, you're you're a you're a man of noble character.

But I want you to hear what Rachel's saying. Five years from now, what would be better for you to have started pool

cleaning and also gone to get a couple of community college classes on the side? and five years from now, you've got an associates degree and now you've got four employees of your own and you're making $200,000 or you're still making $50,000.

This guy had to lay you off because business got slow and now you're making $35,000 and you're in the same bedroom in the same house and except you're 24 years old.

Like if you think on a on a longer time horizon, what's the best thing you can do for your family? It might be to go uh

spread your wings and fly.

I think I think so, too. I think I just needed some like I didn't feel like I was crazy or leaving. No, you're not crazy. You're going to feel guilty cuz it sounds unkind, right? You're going to feel guilty. Yeah. Like it sounds like, oh my gosh, I'm abandoning my family. But what

I want to relieve you of is that was never supposed to be your role. And like John said, if there was like a dire situation of something, um, that's another conversation. But, but yeah, I mean, like it's it's it's a it's a grownup problem that your mom, who has two daughters at home, should be the one calling the show and saying, "I can't pay my bills. What do I need?

What can I do?" Um, and looking at her budget and all of that. And I think you can help guide that, Max. But you can't even change the way she handles money either because you don't have that ability. We don't have the ability to change people.

Here's where I think you can get some peace in this transaction. Okay, number one, you're going to feel guilty. Just know that's coming. Okay, you may have heard me say this on the show.

Choose guilt over resentment every time. If you just stay there and wither, you're going to resent your mom, and that's not fair to her. So, choose guilt.

down and tell your mom, "For 6 months, I'm going to send $1,000 home. I'm going to send $750 home." And make sure that

everybody's clear on when this money is coming. And give her a ramp. You'll sleep a little better at night, I think, and it's going to be not a just a cut off, but it will be a a peaceful

departure. I'm sorry, my brother. Let us know if we can help. Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows about student loan debt, it's me. My husband and I had

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Go to laurelroad.com/ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing.

laurelroad.com/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsy Show. The question of the day

comes from why refi. the Ramsay Show. Uh

this is one of our new sponsors which we we love because if you are in default with private student loans, you need to contact Y refi. And obviously we don't encourage letting your go your loans go into default. We teach responsibility, but these amounts have some of you struggling and there is a way forward.

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situation. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey. That's the letter Y

refy.com/ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Justin in Virginia. Justin writes, "How can I stop being jealous of how much my siblings and in-laws earn?

My wife and I have no debt and a really good household income. We're happy in our careers. We're not missing out on anything due to how much we earn. I just can't figure out how to not be so triggered and frustrated by other people's income. Wow, it's a very

self-aware question. Very interesting.

Yes. Yeah. What do you think, Rachel?

Um gosh, and I'm curious how he I wonder if he knows the actual number of the income or if he is making up a story in his head that they're making a ton because of how they're living. Gotcha. Because lifestyle and income are obviously two different things. Um, so I'd be curious on that. What's causing you to think that they're earning more? Is it because of how they live their life? And kind of

the sucky part is when you live your life responsibly for a season, it's not going to look flashy. Eventually, you'll start to build wealth and you can enjoy it. But there is kind of that season of of grounding, which is where you guys are. Um, but if you know the number and

you're like, "Oh, no, they make half a million or whatever crazy a year."

Um, I mean, I I have learned, John, when

moments like that come up for me, and it's not income necessarily. It could be, but I don't I don't hear people's income a lot. But a situation that they're experiencing something that I want to experience, as much as I can muster up just celebrating them, it's amazing how that fades quickly where the eyes off are off of me, my eyes are off of me, and you can just be excited for somebody, right? Genuinely. And it

doesn't always come easy, I don't think.

But when you can just be happy for them and hopefully maybe they're in a great career that's helping other people or something. I don't know that you can find like the silver lining in what they're doing and being excited. But the fact that you're being triggered constantly, I I'm I'm wondering um you

know, your level of contentment is is obviously not fully baked, right? Yeah.

I' I have found that I always want to

pull the string that's attached to that story. And somewhere in Justin's heart and mind, the dollar amount that you earn every year is attached to value, how much you're worth. Yep. Yep. And somebody told you that somewhere and I found it helpful to get to the like where did that story come from? Oh,

dad used to tell older brother how great he was because he made $6 an hour. I only made $5. Like whatever that story is. Yeah. But the other thing is I think you're right. I think Justin would be pretty cool to out of the blue write your siblings a letter and just say I just need you to know I'm so proud of you. I see how hard you're working and I see what an amazing and instead of when

you feel that jealousy, our tendency is to pull away instead of go towards that

person to celebrate them. and our bodies

have a way of of adjusting for that proximity like we're we're in support and it just over time realizes I don't have to we're not in competition I don't have to fight you I have a great life one other quick thing often when you are

creating a life um I'll say it like this

that is less alive when you are in a we

go to work we make this much money we have this couch we have this house we have this car we are supposed to be happy here. Mhm. It's easy to put your eyes up and start looking for what other people have that you don't. And it often

over the course of my life when I found myself jealous in certain places, it has often brought me and my wife back to the table to say, what life are we creating for ourselves? And where do we find

excitement and aliveness and adventure and um joy in our home? Because it's not

it I'm starting to look for other places. Yes. Right. And it almost always comes back to we've become co-managers of our house. Such a great that's a good point. The stagnant like being stagnant

in life and I think we've gone through season of that of that. You look up and you're like oh my gosh we've just been doing the same thing and there's not as much laughter or joy or levity right now. That's right. That's right.

But when you say no, we're putting the phones away. We're doing family game night and we're going to do this stupid game that's so silly, but everyone ends up laughing. Right. You just do these things.

Um and they don't have to be expensive. I gosh, it was last break before the summer though. I think it was spring and we took all the kids and we went to a local high school like um parking lot randomly with bikes and they still talk about it. They're like, "Do you remember when we rode bikes in a parking lot?" And I was like, "You ride bikes all the time, but it was like this like I don't know, it was so like it was so small and insignificant, but to them, right, it brought this like other magic of like this new place or whatever it was for them." But it's those things and again, it doesn't have to cost money.

You don't have to go you don't have to go travel to Europe to do that. like find find it in your home. Um because gosh, we need it.

Especially this time of year with election season and everything. We're just like, "Oh my gosh, give me some levity and enjoyment with with the people that you love. Find those." But it's recognizing levity and joy. For 99% of us is a choice. Yeah.

There are people in abusive situations.

Yes. There are people who are deep poverty. Yes. There are people who are abjectly on the margins. Yes. But for most of us, we go home and we look at

our spouse and we choose what happens next. We choose how we respond. We choose our frustration. We choose to not pick up the trash, not put our clothes away. We choose to just watch TV, just sit there on our phones. All of those are choices. And that means we can choose something different. Yep. And so, Justin, I I challenge you to sit down with your wife and y'all reimagine your

life. And you might end up in the exact same space, but the exercise of reimagining it, what adventures do we want to create inside of our own home, even for no money? What does that look like? Totally.

It it can rearrange everything. And write your siblings a a letter, a handwritten letter how freaking proud of them you are. It's so cool. It's going to swallow some pride to do that, right?

When you're when you're in a state of or it opens your heart up and you realize it does, but but it's that takes a okay, I'm going to I'm going to celebrate something that is not always fun for me, right? But you start to learn it. So good.

Up next, we have Dan in Eugene, Oregon.

Hey, Dan. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hey, John. How are you? We're doing great. How are you? I'm I'm uh

Oh, had a great number of years, I guess. Um my my question my question for you is how do I

calculate when I can feasibly retire and

or when I can start to plan a second

career and the the rough years is um I'm

about three years into being a widow widowerower. Oh, I'm sorry. Um thank

you. Um I have three kids. two of them

will go to college. I owe 380 on my

house. and and it it I sort of as I was

sort of looking at as I don't know I guess getting our lives back in order over the last number of years it it one

of the the Ramsay quotes of why don't they teach this stuff in school is of like you know how how do you even calculate right what what is the right

trajectory and now that I'm doing it

for alone one and two is for myself.

Mhm. It's a a loan, I guess I should

say, or as a single person. Sure. Yep.

How old are you, Dan? Um 48. 48. Okay.

Hey, Dan, before Rachel's going to walk you through the numbers of it, can I challenge you on something? Yeah. And

this might be a harder exercise than the the math problem.

Sure. But I would love for you to spend some time. And unfortunately, I don't know that you can do this with anybody other than just taking Dan out on a retreat. But I would love for you to figure out or ask yourself, what do you want it to feel like when you walk in your front door at the age of 55?

Yeah, it's because I want you to ask yourself, what kind of life do you want to have at 55? Because that's going to determine the math problem. Yeah, because I think when you get to the numbers really quick, Dan, we only have about 40 seconds, so I'm sorry for the short call. Um, it it's going to be looking at what do you have in retirement now and then averaging out, you know, average returns 10 to 12%, whatever that looks like, and knowing your lifestyle to to John's point, how much is it going to take to run your household at retirement and what is it going to look like to be able to to, you know, you have to calculate inflation and all of that.

Now, if you have not sat down with the Smart Investor Pro, I would do that. You can go to ramiesolutions.com and find one in your area cuz I want to be able to see all of your numbers, everything that you have in retirement, including this house and what's going to be the best bet to get you in a place. But again, it's it's lifestyle. It's return on the market and uh inflation that goes up every year is kind of the determining factor.

So, thanks for the call. Thanks to everyone in the booth, John. Thanks for a great hour.

[Music]

live from Nashville, Tennessee. This is the Ramsay Show where we talk about your money, your loves, your relationships,

and your life. I'm John Deloney, joined by number one bestselling author Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on just about everything.

[Music] 8882552258255225. If you're joining us in the Ramsey Network app, welcome. We are glad you are here. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Ken.

What's up, Ken?

Hey, how you guys doing, dude? We're rocking on to the break it down, brother. What's up? All right. I guess uh my question would be that um here in

Detroit, we yeah, I have a pretty good income, one income household, family with uh three kids, married, and it just

seems like living paycheck to paycheck, can't seem to get ahead. Um it just kind

of almost feel like we're struggling here. When you say pretty good income, I I found on this show some people think that means a million bucks and some people may think that means 40,000. What What's a pretty good income? Um we're we're at about 275 to 300k a year with

my income. Okay. In Detroit, right? Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. We we classify that as uh

pretty good or in the global sense um the top

of the top of the top teeny tiny percent of one. Yeah. So you're crushing. Um that's great.

So Ken, what's So you're saying that you feel like you guys are still living paycheck to paycheck even with this? Um have you guys dug into any numbers? Do you do you know why that this is happening? Yeah, I'm pretty I I I try to stay up on the numbers and and we got a lot of debt.

We got a lot of student debt. Um I went back to school for anesthesia, so I'm a nurse with this. Okay.

I'm right about 181,000 in student loan debt still.

Okay. What What other debt is there?

So, we got that. We owe 200,000 on the

house. 203,000. Okay. On the house. Um,

we at one point took out um a 401k loan

which we still owe 45,000 on. Okay. Um I

have a heliloc loan which another 17,000

on that. Okay. And about 20,000 in

credit cards. Okay. What about cars? Um,

cars. We have two leases. Um, they were both three-year leases. Um, one we still

owe 13,000 on and the other one we owe 10. How much a month are you guys paying those leases? How much are the payments?

One of the payments is 415 a month and the other one's about 460. About,000

bucks. Yeah. All right. Um, Rachel's going to walk you through this. Can I just Can I tell you something? I I've spent a lot of my career sitting behind closed doors with medical professionals.

And can I tell you, you're not crazy.

Is that cool? You're not nuts. I mean,

that helps. Here's what you've done.

You've done exactly what they told you to do. Yeah. Okay. Um they gave you some

um some some quippy things like cars are

depreciating assets. You never want to own them, so just lease them. you're going to buy new ones anyway. Um, you got to buy a house that looks like this because they can't take it away from you if you ever, you know, get in super trouble.

And hey, if you can make this money, but you got to go back to school, of course you do. And uh, and it just keeps going and going and you look up and you make, you know, a little over a quarter million dollars a year and you can't breathe and it doesn't make any sense.

Also, hear me say you can get out of like the path out of this is not difficult. It'll be It'll suck, but it's not hard, okay? But it's going to take two years of you deciding to live a

radically different life for just 24 months or so. Maybe 36 months, but I think 24 months given you can work extra shifts. And do you think you can clean this up and set an entirely new trajectory for your home? Because what your home doesn't have right now, you've got everything in your house. You don't have any peace. Yeah. Is that fair?

Yeah. No, that's that's that's correct.

Okay. If you if you and your wife can settle on that being the goal, not the cars, not the house, not if you settle on I want to walk in from work and I want everyone to be happy, then I'm here. I want to walk in from work with a smile on my face, not with my head slumped over. It's going to take about 24 rough months and you can get there.

Yeah. Okay. I just know too many people who are too many people in the medical profession who are dropping their kids off for college and they still have their own student loans. That's just madness, right? It's madness.

Those are my friends, by the way, bro.

Like, it's just it just is. So, you're not crazy. All right. Yeah.

And Ken, I think y'all's situation, too. It it is the perfect picture of just like this lifestyle creep, right? I'm like, you're just you just a little bit here, a little bit there, add a car, go on vacation, go out to like we're just making good money because you're bringing home probably what 28,000 a month or so. Yeah.

I mean, and it depends, too, cuz I can I mean, that that's with a little bit of overtime, but consistent. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But you look at that just your monthly take-home and you're like, man, it it you know what I mean? Like there's there's a lot you can do with it. But also, like John's saying, the normalization of like, yeah, but we could spend that. I mean, you know, it's it's the classic idea that your income is not the issue for most people.

It is your money habits and the way that you handle your money. And so that magnification is exactly what you guys are experiencing. So, it's like, yeah, we'll get two nice cars. we'll do this, we'll get a little bit more debt and it's just payment, payment, payment, payment, payment, payment.

So, clearing all of it up, I think, is key. And I think you and your wife sitting down just as a experiment and

just say, "What if we made a hundred grand, which again is above the average

household income that is 80 grand?

Nobody's starving." So even a fun, you know, even more of a fun exercise, just put 80 grand and say, "Okay, if we brought in 80 grand a year, what it

comes out to per month, how how can we live on that?" Like live on that and then extra from that of what you actually bring in is going to be thrown at the debt or whatever it looks like. just, you know, I think it's always a fun experiment for married couples to sit down and do this, like play the income game and just see how much can we actually, if we had to do this, how much what would our life look like if we had to live on 60 grand a year, on 50 grand a year, on 70 grand a year.

And then the great thing about you, Ken, is that's not what you guys are making. So, the margin is there. It's just the choice of lifestyle. And so, um, getting your lifestyle wrapped and under control is going to be number one.

And it is going to feel like a shock because it's not going to be going out to eat.

It's going to be I mean, you're going to be living right like you're making 70 to

80. And that's how you're going to clean it up. You're not going to clean it up by just kind of here and there. Eh, we'll just we'll kind of do it, but we're still going to go we're going to still go on vacation. We're still going to go out to the nice, you know, date nights that we want and drop 200 bucks.

Like, you can't do that. Like, if you're going to do this, you have to radically do it. And so you and your wife sitting down and saying, "Okay, here's our budget for the next two years and mapping that out and mapping out your lifestyle and then from there starting to pay off these debts, smallest to largest." And what's wild again about that income coming in, I'm like, you know, you guys could clean up the heliloc in two to three months. You could clean up all the credit card debt in two to three months.

I mean, like you can make a lot of really big progress, Ken, if you guys decide to do it. And then the hope on the other end, we always talk about you live like no one else. It's not gonna be fun, but you guys can do this.

can do whatever you want. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. Now you get to do whatever you want. But I would see, you know, talk to uh the car company and look at your leases.

leases are always a little bit more confusing of the buyout and everything, but if you can get out of those, I mean, just do what you can to dwindle down this debt like as fast as possible, Ken. And you guys will see the progress. It's just going to be up to you all if you want to really do this. But the math is there.

It's going to work. Math is easy. And you're going to take every shift. You're going to miss little league games.

You're going to do whatever it takes for 24 months and make a crap ton of money and pay this off are free forever. This is the Ramsay Show. Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now, the hot topic is AI.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Home ownership is something that's we believe

should be part of your financial plan, but it's really hard these days. The price of houses in the housing market, it is absolutely insane. But when you do

it the right way, when you buy a home the right way, that it brings you peace.

It's not a burden. It is a blessing. And so if you are looking to sell your home or purchase a home the right way the way we teach, you want to make sure to check out some top agents in your area that we trust. These are Ramsay trusted agents.

They have years of experience that will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer for your home. So, to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, go to

ramseysolutions.com/agent and check them out. All right, up next we have Scott in Pittsburgh. Hey, Scott. Welcome to the show.

Uh, hi. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, I've loaned $80,000 to my cousin for his house flipping business through multiple notorized promisory notes over the last four years. I've received that $80,000 back, but none of the $45,000 in interest. Uh my cousin recently informed me that his business is in trouble. He lives four hours away, has four kids, a rocky marriage, and other debt.

So, he's not rich to say the least.

And I sought some legal counsel and all of the notes uh have a confession to judgement clause. So, legally uh we're good uh even to not go to court to get a judgment. So, that's in my favor. favor.

Um, that side of the family has a lot of crazy in it to the extent that one individual is a little crazy, a little dangerous to be around. Uh, personally, my wife and I are in baby step seven. We have four kids, two high stress jobs, an extremely active social life in our church. So, part of me says just let this go and go focus on your life, but another part of me says go get the money that you've you've earned in interest.

Uh, especially since he won't call you back. Uh, I feel like I've let my wife down on this decision. Uh, even though we haven't really lost any money. So, I'm just wondering what path should I go down and how do I emotionally accept that path?

One time. Um, well, I won't I won't tell

that story. That's a personal story. Um, I Scott, walk away.

Walk away. Um, and I think the the making peace is making peace with yourself because you knew this was a a real possibility before you did this.

Yep. And you tried to cover yourself with a bunch of legal paperwork and you had a family member that you probably kind of deep down knew was going to do this looked at you and said, "I'm not doing that." And I don't think you let anybody down. I think it's a story you're telling yourself to kind of cover over the fact that you kind of feel like you got what you knew was probably going to happen. And so I'd make peace with it.

All right. Thank you. I mean, does that does that feel right?

It does. it it's kind of where I thought I was, but the whole like just not calling and texting back after like a 4-year relationship where we had a great back and forth and, you know, money was exchanged both ways and um things felt very comfortable and then, you know, all of a sudden it was just like, okay, it's it's gone. And but that means you're going to try to go get your interest because you're mad. Don't do that. Yeah.

Don't do that. Yeah. And it's it's one of those things um not to say I told you so, but we always tell people even if you got it and even if you're close, don't borrow money because it changes the relationship. And now there's there's something wedged between you and it's shame and that's really hard to

overcome. And so even if you send him a handwritten letter that just say your debts forgiven I wish you the best and go on about your life.

Yeah. I know. And the story I'm playing in my head, Scott, I could be wrong is he's probably panicking, right? I mean, he he has four kids.

He has Yeah. I mean, he's he's he's fearful. I mean, he his fear, you know, radar is up all the way and he probably can't even emotionally in the fact, you know, go there. The fact that you're family, too, that adds a whole other dynamic.

Or the one guy he went to for help, he can't even do that anymore because he's there's 45,000 bucks between the two of you. Yeah. And I And I know there's probably some justice in you, Scott, even the way you laid out the question. You're mad.

Yeah. I can tell that you're Yeah. You're pissed. You're like, man, this is this isn't fair, right?

I not getting it right? But but I think John's right. I think there is a kind of a a humble pill to swallow to say, okay, I'm going to I want to move above my move along with my life because you can, right? Financially speaking, you guys are on baby step seven.

You are you're fine. Is this the quote unquote like justice play? It's not. the justice play would be to take him to court and continue to ring out, you know, the money that he doesn't have and take his family through.

And in the end, I don't know if that's worth $45,000 of your time and your energy and your mental capacity.

Yeah, agreed. I I would say we didn't have a whole lot of relationship even, you know, even before that. Um, considering like we were just four hours away. Uh, not, you know, strong relationship. Um, but it's it's just a

strange situation um because of how how

great things were going for four years and even um talking together about projects that he was working on and um and then it's just like all gone. Like do you know what happened to his business? I'm just curious if if he just did bad deals or what. Uh same story

that Dave always talks to, right? He had a partner the partner skipped town. The whole business was on him and he couldn't he couldn't keep the whole business afloat. So, um, you know, went

from being very profitable, um, over four years to, you know, taking a step back over the last like 18 months or so.

Yeah. Yeah. Send him send him a letter that just says, "Hey, brother, you're freed. I'm tearing up the promisary notes." And I wish you the best.

All right. And I think I think you'll feel a weight off your shoulders. And by the way, next time you you'll you'll feel you'll feel

that sense of injustice. And it's right.

Um, so you're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you or whatever. Like, you'll get that little angry moments every now and then, but you got your money back.

Count your blessings. Yeah. Um, and yeah, let's walk away. So, sorry. All right, John. I'm going to take a question from the Ramsey Network app.

Those of you that are listening, and uh, this question is one again, when you do this, you don't have to call in. You just click the link in the show notes and download the app for free, which you guys have done because you're listening there. Um but this question is I determined my why statement is to help

people heal so that they can be free and

this has become a motivation for a career change to become a mental health counselor. That would mean adding $40,000 to my current undergrad debt of

$40,000. So the original was $110,000.

What is your recommendation for funding a master's in mental health counseling?

Oh man. Are mental health professionals sitting to my right?

Yeah. I I guess they'll teach you in

counseling one of the core tenants is you can't give what you don't have. So if your if your heart is to help people heal so that they may be free and in order to do

that you chain yourself to a student loan company for another five or 10 or

15 years.

um you're you're going to end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. And so I'm going to tell you, you can help people heal um in

your job as a school teacher. You can help people heal in your job as a I'll

tell you this. I got to my hotel last night. I was in Pittsburgh. I got to my hotel really, really late and the woman checking us in was a saint. Just one of

those people that you're around and your heart rate just goes down. And she was so kind and I was a she was a gift. She was a cup of cold water in the desert after just a long long day. Yeah. And so you

can help people heal on the job site when y'all are pouring concrete. So this idea that you have to be a licensed mental health professional and you have to go into $40,000 of student loan debt on top of the 40 you already have out there. Um that's just unwise. And I had

a I had a um a graduate adviser that says if you are sitting in a clinical chair and you don't know how you're going to pay your bills, you cannot sit across from somebody and say I can help you cuz you're not whole. Interesting.

So what does that mean? That means get

this 40 grand paid off as soon as possible. uh see if you can find some side work working in or around counseling offices or social work offices or in children's homes or in

boys ranches or things like that where you can work with people. Make sure this is what you want to do and then get a job at a local university as a housing director or something and they will pay for your graduate degree. But don't add don't double your debt load um in order

to do this one particular job when you can help people heal in a number of different capacities. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, you've heard me say it a thousand times and I'm going to keep saying it. You're worth being well. And listen, therapy

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Help.com/ramyradio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Rachel Cruz. Let's go out to Albany, New York, and talk to Jessica. Hey Jessica, what's going on?

Hi, how's it going? So, I'm calling because I have a whole life insurance

policy that I've been holding on to since 2012. And now I'm thinking hearing Dave

and you guys and hearing that the hole is garbage and that I should switch the term, but I'm not sure about the tax implications and stuff like that. I just don't really know what to do with a life insurance policy from here on out. Okay.

Have you looked into what the payout will be when you if you dissolve it?

Um, so it says the cash value is 8

grand.

Okay. And of your money back to

you. That drives me crazy. Yeah. Um, and

have you looked into term at all to make

sure that you you I mean you're are you healthy, Jessica? Like like you could probably get another insurance. Okay.

I'm going to be 39 in. I'm 39 now. I'm going to be 40 next year. So, I'm kind of like, do I hold on to it? I have two little ones. Um, my husband's the

primary beneficiary, but my oldest daughter is the contingent. And I'm

like, do I hold on to this? I already called the company and asked them if I should, you know, if I could switch it from whole to term. And of course, they said, no. Well, you could cash it out and then get a term insurance policy with us.

And I'm like, I don't know what the tax implications are, anything, or if it would be worth it to do that or if I should just hold on to because it looks like it is it's gotten like $1,500 in the last year. Yeah. But it's it's your money according to the statements that Right.

They take your money back. You overpay them. They invest that money. They take a piece of the investment return and then they call you and like look what you have and it's a crappy return anyways.

So yeah. So, no, I would cancel it regardless of what the whatever the fees and tax implication is. I don't know what taxes are when you cash it out. It may be income.

It may be like a like a capital. It's 8,000 bucks. It's not very much money. So, I would I would pay the taxes on $25 a month.

So, I've been ignoring it for all this time. How much I'm listening to you guys. I'm like, "All right, I need to do something about this." Yeah.

55. 55.

Yeah. I'm a state worker. I make around 15 a year. So I wasn't really missing

it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 55 bucks. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So what I would don't want to be robbed slowly by the company either. Totally.

And that's what it ends up being when you're pairing an investment and insurance together. You're always going to get a crappy product. Usually on both sides, but for sure on the investment side. So um so yeah, I would cancel it for sure today, but before well before you cancel it, I should say make sure you have term in place because I do want you to have life insurance.

You guys have two little kids. Um, so I would still have life insurance. And so you do work. Is that what you said?

Outside the home? Yeah. Okay. So I would get a policy 10 to 12 times your annual income.

And that's about that's around the policy that you would need. And I would go to Xander. You can go to Xander.com or give them a call. Xander Insurance.

And they're great because they're a more they're they're a insurance broker.

So, that's what I would do. And then I would go ahead and apply and get that coverage going first. And the day that goes into place, the the term policy, then I would call Whole Life, cancel it, get your eight grand to move on.

Gotcha. All right. And then um Okay. So

you said 10 to 12 month um months for my

10 to 12 times my life insurance policy.

10 to 12 times 10 times your annual income that I if you if you make 50 grand yeah I would get a policy at a minimum of 500 grand which should not cost you very much money a year.

Okay. It won't be it won't be a huge cost. And by the way um this isn't just us pitching a product. When I was 40 maybe 40 or 41. I understand I did the exact thing you're doing. I called Xander and got my insurance moved over like to them with term and it's it's fantastic.

Gotcha. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. I just want

to say also God bless you guys and thank you for the work that you do. Oh, thank you so much. You are you're super kind and yeah that like Rachel I hear that a lot on like what's the taxes going to be? It's eight grand just pay the taxes and move on with your life for whatever it is. Yeah. Because if you have $8 million well let's start worrying about the tax implications. Totally. Yeah.

Yeah. when you start looking at, you know, $55 a month and it may feel like, oh, that's, you know, no big deal, but over time what it adds up and then what you end up paying for term is a fraction of that anyways. Um, and always, again,

the rule of thumb is your insurance and your investments should never be mixed, right? Um, because you're not going to get the rate of return that you could if you put it, you know, even in in an index fund or Vanguard or the or the market, right? Um, yeah, in any other place, you're going to get a better rate of return. And a lot of these too, I'm like they just um it's that slow leak that they just continue just to like take and take and if it goes up, it just goes up and you know what I mean?

feel clean whole life. There's there's some entanglements there that there's mixed priorities there, right? Let's go out to Spokane, Washington, and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. What's happening?

Hey guys, how are you? Awesome. We're running a scam called a YouTube show and a podcast. What are you up to?

Ah, I love it. I watch you guys all the time. Very cool. What's up?

Uh, not much. I was just hoping to get your guys' advice. Um, we are pretty

good, but we're not as good as we could be. Um, I feel like we're still struggling monthto months kind of like paycheck to paycheck.

And how do we get ahead? How do we start

like invest saving? like we have three kids. I homeschool. There's we're a one inome household. Um and the economy is kind of

killing us. Yeah. So, here's here's the hard the hard truth. You and me and your spouse and my

wife and Rachel and Winston, all of us

go home as a family and we make choices.

And that's not how it was set up for us.

We all grew up and they're like, "Dude, if you just go to college or just do this and you can do this and this and this and this and this." And sometimes

like the dream of we want we want mom to

stay at home. Awesome. We want to not get into the schools. We want to homeschool our kids. Cool. But we can't eat or we we're just floating month to month to month. And it's you guys as a family having to back out of that situation and say, "Okay, the price of milk is bananas right now. The price of bananas is bananas right now." Right.

And so it is um my two youngest are not

school age. So if I went back to work, we'd have to pay for daycare. Well, yeah. I don't think you say I don't think you're saying go back to work. I'm not saying you go back to work. I'm saying everybody makes choices. So So Elizabeth, I want to know you guys. Um financially, where are you guys at? Do you guys have consumer debt?

Uh no, we have credit cards. We don't use them. They are zero balance. Um we own our cars and all our vehicles. How much does your husband make a year? uh about 65. Okay. And are you guys on a

written plan like a very detailed budget every single month that you know exactly here's the amount we have to spend. Okay. I think Okay. So, I think the budget need to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, no, it's fine. Um, I mean, I think that's going to help a lot. And if you stay on the line after this call, Christian will pick up and we'll give you every dollar premium for a year because I think the budget, it's one of those places, Elizabeth, that once you do it and you actually have boundaries around certain categories in your life and you force yourself to live within them, then suddenly you're like, "Oh, there's our margin. There's our margin.

It's not getting eaten up by that extra, you know, fast food run that we're going to go do or out to eat or whatever." Like, it's it is amazing when you do plan out and stick to that plan. It's going to take about 3 months for you guys to get it to work. So remember that 90 days, give yourself a lot of grace between now and Christmas. But I want that to be your homework to say, "Okay, we're going to we're going to sit down and do this." And then um out of that and finding some margin and and you'll look back on your uh accounts and your checking account last month and be like, "Oh my gosh, we're paying for two subscriptions we never used.

We you know, like when you actually start getting in the weeds of it, it is amazing what comes to the surface." Um and even if it's 30, 40 bucks here or there, that you know, that adds up.

I mean, that that will get you some margin. And so, do you guys have um do you guys have an emergency fund? Oh, I

just Hold on one second. There you go. Oh, that was fine. Okay. So, Elizabeth, I would mess up the phone here. There you go. There you go. There you go. Do you guys have an emergency fund, Elizabeth? Do you have any savings? We do not have a specific emergency fund.

We've got a a decent amount in our

checking account. Okay. So, what I would do is is open up a high yield savings and I would move 3 to 6 months of expenses out of your checking out to that and then that's not touched. So, that's your emergency fund.

If you have to have a few months to add to that savings to get that 3 to 6 months, do it. And then from there, I would start investing 15% of your income into retirement and start that going. That can be through his 401k or Roth IRA you guys can open up. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's.

your budget because it always goes up,

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[Music] Welcome back. 88 8255225. This is the Ramsay Show. Let's go out to Kimberly in Seattle, Washington. Hey, Kimberly. What's up?

Hey, are you still there? We're here.

How's it going? How can we help? Good.

Um, well, not good, but um maybe you can help help me out some suggestions. Uh my husband just uh like about a week ago

was uh take went to the hospital and was

diagnosed with um

uh basically uh liver his liver is shot.

He it's beyond repair. Uh they gave him

maybe a year year and a half to live. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Yeah. He's Yeah.

and he struggled with alcohol, you know, addiction off and on over the years. And

he kne, you know, he said, "I knew that this was probably going to happen, but you know, when you're addicted, you're addicted and it's hard to stop something." Yeah. So, anyway, our situation right now is um he

uh he's working or trying to work

because he doesn't feel well. And

um I've been doing the best I can to do Ramsay stuff without him not being um on

board, which means not very much. Uh

anyway, I have questions here

um as to what we should do because this

freight train is moving. Um

moving forward. Do you guys have kids?

We have adult kids who are doing really well. Okay. Okay. Off on their own.

We're They're amazing. How old are you guys? Um uh I just turned I'm I'm just turned

60. He's a few years younger than me.

Three years younger than me. Okay. Um anyway, and in fact, I just worked a I had a hospital bill. I worked at a took a grinding job to pay that the balance

off because of insufficient you know insurance and just

got it done. So here we are with another hurdle. Um so I'm looking at we do own

our own house but um because I haven't

been had access you know I haven't had access to the funding I wanted to do to

keep up on it. It needs exterior repairs that are fairly expensive. Um as in uh roof, gutters, um

some siding, and then paint after that. Um it's an amazing house. It's in

really good condition, but that would have to be done if we were to possibly sell and downsize. Um if that would be

one of the options we should consider. I don't know. Okay. We have a lot of stuff sitting around that, um, my other half

cannot get rid of anything ever. So, um,

getting those, you know, options for getting those things sold and how to approach him on that. Um, we'd have to

have somebody come and remove Kimberly, let me let me hop in here. The the Yes, please.

you've gone directly and you've and and quite honestly if you've been if you've been married to somebody who's struggling with alcohol for a long time, you have been responding to crisis after crisis and thing after thing forever, right? Amen. And then so the way you

said this, I want to challenge you on it. Well, and now we got another hurdle.

This is not just another hurdle.

No, it's big. It's the stop sign, I think, right? Yes. And so you have been

working with somebody for a long

time. Everything in this conversation has changed now. And the conversation changed to changes to now we have a an hourglass.

We have a clock that's ticking and the doctors clicked it on for us. And so we're not talking about how you feel. If

you really like this collection of bottle caps you've been keeping for for like that that ship is over. That ship has sailed out to harbor. We are now

creating a life that I'm going to have to inhabit because you're going to be gone.

Yeah. And that looks like making sure I got a home with four walls on it and I

can pay bills.

Mhm. Right.

And some of it you're going to I I I remember sitting with um um somebody that I care about deeply and I was helping them and their house was full of stuff and I was trying to help them throw that throw it away. This is several years ago. And I just finally stopped and looked at him and said, "I need you to hear me say this. When you die, I'm going to throw

all of this away. I can do it now or I

can do it when you're gone." And there was a long, long pause and they said, "You're gonna have to do it when I'm gone." And I said, 'Okay, I'm moving on with my day. I'm not going to spend another second here. I've already made that choice, but I'm not going to fight that in this moment. See what I'm saying? So, I want you to He was not

even used to that idea yet. It hadn't even been introduced. Right. Right. I want So, here's here's what we're doing. We're reverse engineering this thing for the four walls. I I I hate to live like this, but

this is the clock you've been given. I want to go 18 months and start working backwards.

What does life look like?

And you don't have to do a roof and siding and gut. You don't have to do all that at the same time. We're going to price each one of those things out. These things that we have to do so we can keep our house. These things that we have to do so we have transportation. Um you're going to have to have a job if you don't have any retirement. Yeah.

What's the What's the financial um

status, Kimberly? Do you guys I know you said you own your home outright, so there's no mortgage or anything on it, correct? Yeah. Well, um I was, you know,

in the earlier days, I was working to, you know, pay a little extra here and there because I'm the, you know, I'm the one that doesn't want to be in horrendous debt, a debt of any kind, actually. And um he used to work a very

uh a very good job and part of it was um

an investment account um that was like a

retirement, right? and

um and he got to a point where he wanted

to start his own business. He'd always wanted to do this because his family had done it and they had done it poorly and they fought and they divorced, but it still is a dream of his. And so did he cash out the investments?

So over time, yes, he cashed out almost

everything that he threw into a business without knowing how to run a business.

Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Kimberly, you're going to have to set that aside because you got an emergency in front of Yeah.

So, what um what debt What debt? I know.

No, no, you're fine. You're fine. What debt do you guys have? Any at all? Any

consumer debt? Credit cards, car loan?

No. Okay. We have no debt. No debt.

Okay. And how and how much money property taxes and things like that?

Okay. Are you working, Kimberly? Do you work? I I was in order to pay off my

hospital debt. Okay. Yeah. horrendously huge and I finally got that paid off and it but it was very hard. It was just a Okay. How how much physically? Okay.

Okay. So, not in a great position to work. Okay. What was he making a year?

No. What's he making now? Yes. Um to

keep you guys crap. I should know this. No, it's fine.

Um 30,000 70,000. Do you have any

rounds? Yeah. 30 something. 30 something. Okay. And that's And that's

okay. So, and any investments? Sorry, I know you said he cashed out his to start the business. Do you have Do you have any retirement? Okay. So, there's no investments, no retirement.

And does he does he have life insurance?

Nope. Nope. Okay. Okay.

So, what I want you to do, Kimberly, is the the the silver lining from a financial standpoint, all of this is you you guys have no debt. I mean, you don't even have a mortgage. So, it's you're So, that in in of itself is like that's a relief. So, what John was saying, the four walls, I want you to go and do a budget, Kimberly, and I want you to stay on the line and we're going to give you Financial Peace University and Every Dollar Premium because I want you to start budgeting and I want you to know to the penny.

Now, I do have Every Dollar already. Oh, you do? Okay. So, to know what Thank God for that.

glad because I think if you have those numbers in front of you of the things you have to do, you have to keep the lights on, the cell phone bill, and your

insurance. um you know, food, gas in the

car, you have all of that. And that's what you're going to have to look at, Kimberly, and say, "Okay, I have to at least make this, right? When the time comes, I have to I have to at least make this." And then I would not encourage you to sell the house or even to put in a ton of repairs right now. I think you're fine.

What I would do is I don't want to do that. Yeah. And I And I would And I wouldn't unless your roof is leaking or something, but like for now and then, Kimberly, when the time comes, I want you to grieve. I want you to go through that process.

And don't make a big financial decision until about 6 months to a year. And if in 2 years, 3 years you decide to sell the home and downgrade, take some of the equity, you can do that. But don't feel like you have to make these big decisions today. Today, I just want your four walls covered between now and 18 months.

I'm so sorry though.

That's the first hour in the books.

We'll be right back on the Ramsay Show.

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## 115. Money Turns Family Drama Into Financial Disaster | January 5, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:51:05 |

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This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So, make a change and download Every Dollar today.

[music]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you with your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, number one best-selling [music] author, Ramsay personality, and host of Front Row Seat,

one of our more popular Ramsay Network shows. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Jack is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi Jack. How are you?

>> Doing well. Thank you Dave and Ken.

Thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah. So basically my grandfather had

passed [clears throat] away about five years ago and he had left a trust to his

three children. Um,

and basically the way it had been set up

is that after my father passed away, um,

I would receive a lump sum. Um, each of

those, uh, each sibling got a lump sum

payment from that trust. Um, however,

for my dad, he has been historically

been bad with money and it was set up

for him that he would receive payments

annually in the trust. Um, and then once

he passes away, I would receive the lumpsum. And after after this, he is

basically saying that he wants to

have me sign a document that releases

the trust to him. And he plans to spend

the money. And he's threatening me by

bribing bribing me with $5,000 upfront.

>> [clears throat] >> $5,000.

How much is in the trust?

>> From what I understand, whenever my grandfather was still around, um I

believe his portion is between 250 and

300,000.

>> So, you're going to trade he's asking you to trade $300,000 for 5,000 bucks.

From what it seems, he has said that he

wants to take that lump sum and he wants

to renovate his house because he is 63

years old. Um, he works as a lawyer and

he wants to renovate his house. He wants to buy a new car and he claims that I

will have the rest of the money.

However, with his historic run of

dealing with finances, I don't believe

that there will be any money left.

>> Hey, Jack. Hey, Jack. Quick question.

You've used two words with us. You said threatened and and bribe. What What does

that actually look like? I haven't heard any evidence of that.

>> I would say it's it's definitely more so bribing. um him just throwing out one

time he said the first time he said I'll

get you $10,000.

Then the second time we had talked about it he said that he would give me $5,000

upfront. Um >> okay. So what kind of I mean I'm I'm

sorry. It it's it's just u the math is

not mathing. I mean, he he's so

illogical that he actually believes you would trade 5,000 for 250.

That's just bizarre to me.

>> I totally agree. >> What planet does he live on that he thinks you would do that?

>> I don't know. >> I don't either. >> Okay. So, you're using words like bullied and bribed with your own father.

Irresponsible about your own father.

Your grandfather thought he was irresponsible. So, you're not going to do this? You had already decided that before you called, right?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> So, how can we help you? >> However, >> yes. Um, I really just want to know how

to navigate that conversation with my father because >> Okay. You You want to know something that's impossible? It's impossible for you to take a man that is this unreasonable >> and make him reasonable with one conversation.

That's not possible. Okay. So th this

unreasonable man is going to have an unreasonable reaction to your reasonable

no.

There's no way you can frame a no that

this guy's going to like it

and he's going to go, "Oh, thank you, son. I just love you so much. I'm so proud of you." That's what you wish would happen. There's no conversation that does that because of what you're dealing with on the other side of this.

You know, it's like petting a crocodile and going, "Nice crocodile. Nice crocodile." And hoping you don't get your arm bit off. Of course, you're going to get your arm bit off. It's a crocodile.

So, you know, that's what we're dealing with. So, I I I wish I could make this

make you have a good dad, but you don't.

And so what I can do is just give you the real the real realistic expectation which is you preserve your dignity, your

courage, your kindness, your integrity.

That's the only thing you have control over. You don't have control over his reaction.

So you gently and kindly say, "Dad, grandpa put this in place and I'm just going to abide by grandpa's wishes.

Thanks for asking. I'm sorry it doesn't work for me and we're just going to leave the thing set up like it is. But thanks for asking. I I hope you can find another way to get your house renovated and get you a car since you're a lawyer and all. But and I'll be cheering for you cuz I love you and and he's still going to go bonkers, isn't he?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So 100% be expecting that.

Anything less than bonkers, we'll call it gravy on the biscuit. We'll call it a bonus. But I'm counting on bonkers.

Yeah, I Jack, I don't know if you've ever had surgery before, but I would say that your mindset here has got to be uh the same as going into surgery that you have to have. It's not fun. It's going to hurt. It's going to be some recovery time, but it absolutely has to happen.

And on the other side of the surgery, you're going to be better off >> and there can be healing. >> That's right. And I think you have to go into this going, there's just no way. I think Dave framed it beautifully, but as a response to what Dave said, you've got to understand this is one of those situations in life that was forced on you.

You cannot control your dad or the situation he's put you in, but you got to do what's best for you. So, that's the mindset. There's no way this is not going to suck. But on the other side, you're going to be better.

>> Anytime you're setting a boundary with a boundaryless person, less is more.

Okay? We're not going into a bunch of explanation or discussion of his character or the history of the family tree. We're not going to try to explain this to him. We're not going to go into a bunch of detail. It's a simple thing.

Dad, you know, I love you and I've thought about this and I I think I'm just going to stick with grandpa's plan and that's what we're going to do. So, I hope it works out for you and I'll be cheering for you.

and just that that that's what 10 seconds maybe of audio and that's all

you need. The longer you talk, the more

you're going to mess this up. So, I use

that when over 35 years now of running a business on in the rare occasion that we actually have to let someone leave this place, we don't have long discussions.

We've had long discussions up to that point trying to get them better. But the day they leave, it's like the decision has been made. Today is your last day.

That's it. We don't go into why cuz why's been discussed in the 90 days previous

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[music]

[music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality bestselling author is my co-host today.

Seattle is on the line. Jeremy is calling. Hi Jeremy. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Hey, I um just started your book this last month with my wife. We are on baby step number two. Um, and to long

story short, we basically borrowed some money from a family member, my father-in-law and mother-in-law about a year and a half ago. Um, and we put a

manufactured home there, used the money for that. We're paying them back pretty quickly, it feels like. Um, made a dumb

decision again before I started your book and went out and bought a toy. And it's kind of putting some stress on our relationship with them. They're thinking we shouldn't be spending money when we owe them money. And I just wanted your advice on that.

>> What'd you buy?

>> Uh four-wheeler. >> Okay. What' you spend on the four-wheeler?

>> 6,000. And we financed it, >> but it's almost paid off now.

>> Mhm. Okay. And what do you owe them?

>> About 80,000.

>> O. So they loaned you the money to

be buy a >> house put a house >> manufactured >> a a trailer.

>> Yeah. Yes, sir. >> On their property.

>> Yes, sir.

>> So you have an $80,000 trailer and you don't own the dirt.

>> Correct.

>> Oh god. Okay.

Um.

Wow.

Um,

well, what are the terms? I mean, did did you have a payment system with them?

A certain amount you're supposed to pay them every month?

>> Yes. Yeah. And we've been paying that on time every time. Obviously, >> you were not Well, not obviously. I mean, you you you've never been late.

And yet, they expected that you would prepay them rather than do anything else. Why did they expect that?

>> You know, that's a good question.

Okay.

>> And you know, our thing is we have a pretty good relationship with them and things just kind of got awkward. So, >> do I sell the toy, take a loss, and move

on? Do I You're You're the expert. I

guess that's my question. >> Yeah. I'm curious to know if there was any pressure that you felt at any time or your wife felt at any time to a borrow 80 grand from them to then get a premod trailer and and put it on their property. Was there pressure there or was it just they threw it out and you guys love the idea?

>> So, basically we we sold our house and had some money set aside to do this project and it was just an idea that got thrown out there and nobody thought it would really work. uh we we were able to make it work and uh we were pretty excited about that. There wasn't too much pressure there. Um it will most

likely be it will be our property at some point. Um so that wasn't there

wasn't too much for us on on worrying with that.

>> Um >> okay. There's two layers to this

situation. The first layer is the simple four-wheeler question.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. on the simple four-wheeler question. I think you and your wife need to go over, ask them if you can come over and talk and have a cup of coffee and bring a pie.

>> And you just sit down and say, "Um, we

thought that we had a monthly payment

arrangement with you." And as long as we were doing that, we thought we were doing the right thing. Somehow there must have been more to the agreement than we understood >> because if we go on vacation, you're going to be mad. If we buy a four-wheeler, you're going to be mad.

But we didn't know that was part of the deal. And so we need to get on the same page about what our deal is cuz I thought our deal was I pay you monthly payments and you're happy. But now it's I pay you monthly payments and I have to check with you before I buy anything.

>> Mhm. And that's not a deal I'm okay with.

>> Yeah. >> Now, agreed. You shouldn't have bought a stupid four-wheeler in this situation.

Okay, that's aside. And you can say that I made a mistake. I shouldn't have bought the toy. But I'm trying to figure out what our boundaries are here so that I don't upset you again into the future

and basically call them out because they're out of line.

You did a stupid thing, but they don't have a right to be upset about it because you're kept your part of the deal. Yep. >> I'm telling you, sell this four-wheeler and get yourself out of debt with that money. Yeah, definitely do that.

But that not paying towards them. Okay, that's layer number one. That's the the easiest layer. Do you want me to get harder, Jeremy, or do you want me to leave you alone?

>> Nope. I want to hear it. >> Okay. You guys have made a colossal mess.

it's not going to turn out well, I'm afraid. Colossal rule number one is you never build a property. You never put $80,000 worth of collateral on someone else's dirt. I don't care whose dirt it is. Period. Because you do not have

control of the situation. If they are in a car wreck in the middle of the night, fall asleep at the wheel, and these sweet little people hit somebody head on, and they get sued for $200 million.

The dirt under your trailer is gone in that lawsuit. And they have no control over that, and you have no control over that. So, you have set yourself up. And I've seen this a thousand times in 30 years of doing what I do. Not owning the dirt under your trailer is a massive mistake. Number one, borrowing 80,000 from your in-laws for anything for any reason is a massive mistake. Number two,

the borrower is slave to the lender. And as you have figured out, masters change the rules sometimes.

You're the slave.

Rule number problem number three. You spent $80,000 on something that's going down in value, not up in value. Trailers

go down in value. They don't go up in value. So, in 15 years, what's this $80,000 trailer worth? Nothing.

You're burning $80,000 on your kitchen table every night, a little bit at a time. So, you got all a you got a massive entanglement of mess here. And I

don't know exactly how to get you out of that one as easy as I did the other one. This is not a cup of coffee and a pie.

Um uh so uh but if I'm in your shoes,

I'm going to start trying to unravel this thing if I can figure out a way to honorably do that. Uh I'm guessing the trailer won't bring 80 grand now, right?

>> No. >> Okay. What would it bring now?

>> Um it might get close. You know, there's there's not a lot of them around to get a good idea, but >> Okay. If you can if you can get out of it, I I would sell it and start fresh renting somewhere and give them their money back and keep you from owning an asset that's going down in value sitting on dirt that you don't own. Man, this is just it's you're playing Russian roulette and there's three bullets in the gun.

>> Not one. >> Yeah. I Dave, you you Yeah, he's been sufficiently burned. I'll offer some sav.

>> No, you're right. No, you you couldn't be more right. I just can't add anything to it other than to say this. uh walk away from this to realize it could have been way worse and this thing can get nastier if you don't fix it now. And I I could not say that enough. You can dig out of this, but I would start digging quickly and make all these changes and

uh you'll look back on this and go, I'm I'm glad I did it. It's it it's going to get worse. The relationship's going to get worse. The finances are going to get worse. Everything's going to get worse.

There's nothing in this story that turns out good. >> Yeah. It's it's it it's it's and and and the problem is to stop and say that out loud is like walking up in the middle of the town square and saying the emperor has no clothes. Everybody's going to look at you and go but wait your your wife's going to look at you their precious little daughter and go my daddy would Oh yes he did.

He already bitched about the four-wheeler. Of course he's going to do it. It's coming.

>> Okay. I already know what your daddy's going to do. I read his mail. Well, Dave, this makes me think of although the classic line in the wedding vows, leave and cleave. There is a psychological reason for doing that.

There's wisdom in that phrase and not living on their land. >> Well, mom and dad have got some money and they've got some land and they were trying to do something nice and they did a good thing in a dumb way.

>> Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. >> You know, how could you do this differently? All right, I'll tell you how you could do it differently. You carve up your property. You put a property line on it and you give a parcel of it to your daughter. And if you want her to have an $80,000 property, have her build something on there that will go up in value and give her $80,000 of your money. Don't loan it to her and make her your slave and change the quality of your relationship.

Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master.

It changes the relationship. And you're not the exception. No one, none of you out there. So, mom and dad's quit doing a nice thing, a good thing, a bad way,

and causing more problems than you were blessings. Yeah, that's right. >> That's Oh, poor Jeremy. I'm sorry, Jeremy, but [music] you called and you asked. This is the Ramsey Show.

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>> The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, hey, we're not judging you. We are saying do something about it. Contact Yi. They were created specifically for

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Mary in New Mexico.

My husband and I have been listening to you for 30 years. Being empty nesters now, we have found that we had to pull back the reinss a little bit. Went back to using an envelope for groceries. We also eliminated credit cards and mostly use cash. The one expense that my husband refuses to use cash for is golf

in all caps [laughter] with an exclamation point. He has been an avid golfer for 40 years. Being the main bread winner, he feels somewhat justified and deserving to continue this hobby. He never remembers what he spent, so we're constantly having to adjust for extra money that's coming out because he changes everything at the club and then we get an invoice. Could I please get your expert advice on dealing with this type of scenario? Well, u I was a member

of a local club for a while. Uh, we had thank one of the things I'm very thankful for, we had a corporate membership at a great golf course here and and Stacy and I had to put this in the line item and so um he's got to put

this uh in the budget and uh if it's not going to be cash because I understand the way these clubs do this, he knows what it costs to golf. He knows what it costs to get a cart if they adding that in. He knows what the taxes are on that.

He also knows what it costs for a Twix at the turn or a turkey sandwich. So these are things that are all very controllable and he's got to play ball and so you know you know what it costs to play golf beyond your membership or whatever. So he's got to put that in there and you guys got to come to an agreement on this is what we can spend as we're having to tighten up right now.

He doesn't have to give up golf but he's going to have to maybe cut back. So maybe that's rounds, maybe it's u a drink after the uh the round. Whatever it is, he's just got to be disciplined with it and it's pretty easy to track.

He's just not wanting to do it because he's never had to. That's my take, Dave.

I don't know what you think about that.

>> Well, there's a difference between continuing the hobby and um you know, she she wants him to quit. [laughter] >> I mean, this thing's dripping in I hate

golf language. Um >> yeah, the all caps give us away. Gives it away. >> And so, you know, there's a difference between he has a right to continue his hobby because he's the red winner. He says that's different argument than um hey, you know, you can't buy all the expensive stuff and play.

>> That's right. >> You know, because we're we're having to tighten up and so we're going to we can put a line item to this and we can manage it if he chooses to be responsible. There's a difference between choosing to be responsible and choosing to play golf. >> That's right. I mean, you can be irrespon you can be irresponsible, not bother with it, which is what he's doing. And so I I think step one for him

for you is not try to get him to quit.

Um it's try to get him to rein in the

additional um expenses whether you're buying food or drink or whatever he's doing while he's there. And uh you know what can we do to limit that and put a number on it that we're not going to go over. And um

that's very doable. Um it's very doable.

So, but I think there's more going on here than the uh [laughter]

golf capital letters all exclamation

points, right?

Is pretty much I hate golf wife language. I saw it, you know. So, >> no question about it. And and in his defense, you don't walk into the golf club with your cash envelope. It's it's

they >> Well, a lot of courses don't t I mean, if you're a member of something, they won't. No, >> they don't. You have to sign. >> Yeah, that's exactly choice. That's the only way to handle it. So, >> but it is trackable. >> But that doesn't mean you can't manage what you're spending and you should. So, he needs to be responsible and you probably need to light up on lighten up on the golf hating.

>> Sarah is in Detroit. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. Thank you.

>> What's up?

>> Well, I've got a question uh around an

EIDL business loan that was taken out.

an economic disaster relief loan in 2020

for a business that has since gone under due to the pandemic. I spoke with two attorneys. They both said I don't owe on the loan uh because it wasn't personally guaranteed and it was the name of a business that went under. But I am a

Christian and I'm I'm grateful for the blood of our Messiah. Hallelujah.

>> Amen. >> And God's law seems Amen. God's

blessings to um say differently. Um so

I'm going to negotiate with the SBA.

I've been given the paperwork to do that and I'm just wondering if you have any advice on how to negotiate and then depending on what that number is, how I should go about paying it.

>> You don't have the money?

>> Well, I don't I don't have the money for the whole loan. No, >> I How much is the whole loan?

>> How much is the whole loan? >> Okay. 25,000.

>> All right. And um $25,000.

>> Yeah. And I have 15. Well, actually it's 24. >> Okay. And you have how? And you have how much money?

>> 15,000. >> Okay. >> My emergency fund.

>> Okay.

Um

well, there's two two or three issues.

Okay. From an ethics standpoint, the

government gave you money for disaster

relief for your business that failed and it's not got a personal guarantee and you're not liable. The government forgives that. From an ethics standpoint, you are not doing anything wrong by just simply accepting the forgiveness because this is not a bank loan from a the bank is not going to get

tagged on this. if it's got an SBA label on it, the SBA is going to cover it. Um

because this is a government thing that

uh you know is waved in this instance.

Okay. So um you know another example

would be like if you have a federally insured student loan and you become permanently disabled, the terms of those loans are there forgiven if you're disabled.

uh you are not under an ethical Christian obligation to pay it anyway.

And the term of the loan was that it's

it's forgiven if you're disabled. The terms of the loan on this are it's not personally guaranteed because it was given to a business in the midst of a uh

a disaster relief situation and the

therefore they did not require personal guarantees because it was a it was virtually a grant is what it was and it didn't work. Obviously it did not turn your business around. So, um, I I'm gonna ask you to spend some time in prayer and make sure you're hearing from God, not childhood guilt, about what your Christian obligation is here. Um, if you feel like if you really feel like >> God is telling me to pay this, then for goodness sakes, pay it, >> right?

>> Okay. >> Not really.

I mean, I've been in those situations.

I've paid stuff that, you know, people look at me like I'm a nut for having gone back and paid that, but I just I felt like God said to do it. And then other times I don't feel any tinge of guilt at all. I'm just done. You know, I mean, this is a this is the deal. It's the way the deal went. Sorry. Good luck.

And that that's that's where this one could fall. But uh but I never step in between someone and the Holy Spirit.

That's a dangerous place to stand.

>> Yeah. I guess I should give you a little more context. I got to a point where, you know, I was three months default because I didn't feel like I did owe it.

You know, I don't lie. I do I do my best to follow God's law. Um, and I got on

the phone with the SBA and I learned everything that they do and how it wasn't personally guaranteed and it goes my information goes to the Department of Treasury >> after like they just right SBA lets it go. Department of Treasury gets my information. And then I started to feel like fear and I know that's not of God.

Um, and then I talked to my family and I

started to get advice just from other people and um, yeah, then I actually

they suggested I called you. So called [clears throat] your >> Well, I think you're telling me you're doing this out of a an emotional guilt trip, not out of a Holy Spirit leading.

I think that's what you just said.

Yeah, I think so.

>> I'm not sure. But again, I'm not going to stand between you and the Holy Spirit. If God tells you to do something, kiddo, you go do it. Um, you Dave does not get a trump card on that.

I don't get to lay down on that hand.

So, you got you got to figure that one out. But if you're just scared, nah, it's the government. Tell them to stick it. That's pretty easy for me. This is

the Ramsy Show.

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[music] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose is my co-host

today. Michael's in Atlanta. Hi Michael.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> How you doing Mr. Renzy >> better than I deserve. Sir, how can I help?

>> So, I just want to say appreciate everything you do for everybody. I grew up in a in a in an awesome family, awesome life and everything. And my two financial adviserss were Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. So, I'm honored to be able to finally get her into a phase of life where I can make this phone call and uh and uh be a be able to talk to you.

So, I thank you for that. >> Well, thank you. We're honored to have you. How can we help?

>> By saying that I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Say it again. >> I said we're honored to have you.

How can we help? >> Yes, sir. So, I'm 27 years old and I work for a family business. My second job is an ice business and the owner is wanting to sell within the next next uh two years or so.

The sale will come with a building with existing tenants and the ice company itself. He's asking for $1 million.

vehicles and what we have in our savings and investments, uh, what do you think the best way that I can get a loan that big uh, for that for that size? Um, we

me and my wife currently are living at my parents house. Um, we have no form of

debt besides or thank thanks to you. No, no debt. We we worked hard to pay off all our student loans and credit card debt and everything. We do have one car loan right now that we're trying to knock out as quick as possible. Um but

like I said, no form of of assets or anything like that.

>> Um well, I I'm a little bit confused about the part where you listened to me for years and then you just asked me how you

can borrow a million dollars.

>> Right. Exactly. That's a little bit inconsistent, isn't it? I mean, you kind of know I don't do that, right?

>> Yes, it is. And and with the other previous callers, I was thinking I maybe

I should change the word from borrow to be able to obtain the business for that price. So, uh I do I do apologize. Let me back up. What is the best route for somebody in my shoes to be able to obtain the business?

>> Okay. Because you Well, I mean there's you don't have a million. No bank's going to loan you this. Okay.

like you said, you don't have the assets, you don't have the income, you're not bankable. A banker would >> just um it would take about a I don't know less than four or five seconds to make the decision. You're not going to get that.

that that was a good idea and we don't.

So the what I would do is the first thing I'd do is separate the business from the real estate.

>> Okay? >> Let him keep the real estate.

>> Good. and the business can be his tenant until you save up the money to buy the real estate later.

>> You could do that out of the business. So, what do you think of the million dollar? What do you think the real estate is actually worth? Market value.

>> So, we haven't dug into the books or anything. >> No, I I didn't ask you about the books. I asked you about the real estate.

What's the real estate worth? The building >> approximately $750,000.

>> Okay. So, you're wanting to buy an ice business for 250,000 bucks.

>> Sounds right to me. >> Okay. So, it should be making a profit after everyone is paid, including the

manager of the business. After everyone's paid market wages, that business should be making a profit of 60 or $70,000 a year. Is it

>> uh 60k? Um >> Oh, you haven't gotten into the exact profit. >> You haven't gotten into the books yet. You don't know.

>> Correct. Correct. Uh, this is this is something I want to try to figure out a route before to see if it was even attainable before I dug into the books.

>> Let me ask a real quick question. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> If you weren't working for this owner and they had not approached you about selling, they want to exit, would you be wanting to get into the ice business if you weren't currently working for them and this wasn't an opportunity?

>> I I I believe so.

>> Okay.

So, like if you weren't if you weren't working there anymore, a year from now, you would be going, I got to figure out a way to get in the ice business.

>> Uh, I I believe so. I I think it's it's very lucrative and I see a lot of opportunities in the in in the ice world itself. Um,

so I'm glad I was introduced to it very young. >> Yeah. >> And I think I think my answer would still be yes. >> That's not your family, though.

That's the Your family is a different business, >> correct? >> Okay. I want to make sure I got that straight. Okay.

All right. Um, now here's what I would tell my son if he was your age and came in and sat down at my kitchen table. I would say you need a better, you need a stronger personal financial foundation before you start talking about buying and running a small business. Buying and running a small business will take the bone marrow out of you.

It you it will drain you.

it'll squeeze you like yesterday's dish rag, man. You got cuz it it it it becomes a mistress if you're not real careful cuz you have to put everything you're all your emotions, all your intellect, everything into it. And you got a car payment and live with your mama. >> So you're not ready to do that.

>> So you guys need to get out on your own and be debtree and have a solid foundation in your life before you start talking about buying business. This is what I would tell my own son.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And can I can I ask you a question correlating to that? >> Sure. I I see this opportunity and I could see this opportunity as a long-term

investment, a long-term a great thing in just long term down the road and everything. I'm wanting I'm not wanting to pass up on this opportunity as it comes to me right now. And in my brain, you could tell me if I'm wrong. >> You're wrong. I just told you you were wrong. I just told you not to do it.

>> Pass up on it. Pass it. Let it go.

>> Let it go. Get in the ice business later when you get your freaking act together.

You don't have your act together yet.

>> About all you're good at so far is talking yourself into this. >> Yeah. It's not an opportunity. It's a trap. >> Yeah. >> With your current environment, Michael, >> you don't have you don't have any money. You have a car payment. You live with your parents. >> You I'm telling you, man. You really got to get out. You got to get out and get on solid ground to have a chance of making it in business. Business is hard.

It's hard. And you don't do it from your daddy's basement. It's hard. And you don't do it with a car payment, you know. No, it's not. It's you. You need to get a solid solid foundation. And I don't think we can stop you. You got your foot on the pedal. You're heading off the cliff. Nobody sign. Bridge out.

Bridge out. Bridge out. I don't care. I I I don't want to miss a chance. I'm taking the jump. >> It's a chance to go swimming, Dave.

>> That's it, man. >> It's That's the metaphor there. >> We can't stop you. So, have at it, son.

But I wouldn't do it. I'm telling you, I wouldn't do it. I think you're going to have plenty of times in your life to get into business and do it from strength, not from weakness. And you need to build some strength to do that. That's what I But I I it doesn't affect me, honey. If you want to do it, you go do it. But you ask what we would do. And we love you and we want you to win. I told you exactly what I told my own son who I

want to have a great life and prosper just like I want that for you. So, you do what you want, but I don't think you're in a position to do this right now. And I would not do it. I'm not a dream killer, but I love stepping all over nightmares.

I love kicking a nightmare out the door.

>> Yeah. So, >> oh the here's a quick message for and and this is Listen, we've all been your age and brighteyed, bushy tailed, excited about what looks like an opportunity. And this is a situation,

Michael, if you were to jump into this in your current environment, you wouldn't even be able to be fully focused. Like Dave said, you need to be on a small business because of the financial stress. you're not in a position to where this thing can take care of you. And I didn't hear enough evidence either, and this is a positive.

I'm not piling on here. I didn't hear enough evidence that he understood the business. Oh, >> he doesn't. Yeah. >> And that he could truly grow the business in order to say I could actually run the business. I'd like him to prove to the current owner that he through his efforts, Michael we're talking about, can grow the business.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would sit down and talk to the current owner. if you want to do this, Michael, here's a way to salvage the idea, I guess, and say, you know, put me in leadership role for the next two years.

That's where >> and I can get out and get I can get my personal finances and straightened out and then I want and then I want to talk to you.

>> Love that conversation. >> And you can have you can be sitting there learn the business inside and out.

You may learn >> you will learn a lot more about it than you know now. And you may learn the actual valuation is off. Yeah. And that's that's such good advice. I hope everybody's listening to that because that actually creates an opportunity.

Doesn't mean it's a good opportunity, but right now what you have is not an opportunity. If you go the Dave route there now all of a sudden it becomes an opportunity and then have the option to choose to take the opportunity. And that's what I like about that. There might be some sweat equity in that plan too if he helps grow the business. The best business deals I have ever done in my life are the ones I passed on. That's so true. That's good. They're the best ones. >> Yeah. This is the Ramsay Show.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, best-selling author, and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today.

Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of 552,000.

Um, that includes our mortgage, but besides the mortgage, most of that debt is his. um we're following your baby steps. We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now, we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. Um I I

I didn't I just don't know what to do. I don't I don't know what to do anymore.

>> I'm sorry. How could you get back into debt? I'm When you're getting out of debt. I'm confused.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cards come up and then he he loves to use his credit cards

for anything that comes up. So, >> okay. So, we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So, he's not really trying to get out of debt. He's running business as usual and you're trying to get out of debt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that that is mine that even even myself

right now, I I just I can't seem to get out of it. And I'm physically >> So, you said 562,000. How much of that is mortgage?

>> 500,000 is mortgage.

>> Okay. What's the 62,000?

>> Um, so 11,000 is mine. And then the >> No, there's not a mine. You're married.

The $11,000 on what?

It's basically just credit cards.

>> Okay. So, you have $11,000 credit cards.

What else is out there out of the 62?

>> It It's all credit cards. We only have >> $62,000 in credit card debt.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> I'm sorry. >> You don't have a car payment? >> That's true.

>> Uh just one car payment. We have a We have $1,000 left on it.

>> Okay. You owe $1,000 on a car. And what do you owe on your student loans?

We have no student loans. I paid off my car. >> Okay. So, you basically have $62,000 in

credit card. $61,000 in credit card debt. And what's your household income?

>> Uh I make 82 and he makes 80.

>> Okay. So, $162,000

with a $500,000 mortgage. And And uh how

long ago were you zero credit cards

debt?

Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. Um, he's always had credit cards debt. >> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married for 5 years now.

>> Okay. So, when you're married, it's all

ours.

>> Mhm. >> You understand me? Okay. So, you were never at zero because he's always had credit cards because we have had credit cards because you are married to Mr.

Credit card.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've been married 5 years and we have always had credit card debt.

Uh, how much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

>> I think at that point it was around maybe 70,000.

>> So, it's it's maintained for about the last 5 years about the same.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So, in his past he overspent which is what the credit card came from. But we're just gonna Okay. So, how old are

you guys?

>> Uh, he's 41 and I'm 30.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I I This is not a

um a systems problem.

This is a person problem.

It's a behavior problem. Okay. So, your

system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt. He has not decided that. And so you got you you

know you have a marriage issue to sit down and talk to your husband and say, "I want to get on the same page. I want us to get out of debt." And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

>> Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

[snorts] >> Uh two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to to do the baby steps?

since the beginning of this year.

>> Okay. And then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do the way you're talking. >> Yeah. >> Yes, we do. >> And then and then one other one I I forgot. Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses and he's under the guise I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month, but he never does. Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it.

>> He was. >> Yeah. >> Not anymore. But what how why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

I I think it's because, you know, he's

41 and I'm just I'm disappointed. I

mean, I just I can't take it anymore.

You know, um I have never had debt and

I've even racked up 11,000.

>> Okay, wait a minute. Stop a minute. Okay, I get all that. But he cut up the credit cards last weekend and then you called me and said he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend and said, "I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up. I'm confused about what you're upset about.

>> I I guess because I didn't I thought the number was lower than what it is. So

that's >> But you knew that last weekend.

>> Yeah. But I I'm at a point where I don't I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we what we owe. I I just don't >> Yes, you can. You make $162,000.

You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on a hundred and you are debtree in one year. Voila.

>> Yeah, >> it's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month and you are debtree in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together, combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go, we're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt cuz you cut up the credit cards and I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified.

I'm done with all this irresponsibility and you are too. Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and rot lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done. That's how you do it.

You make enough money to pay this off in one year. Easy.

>> That's right. >> If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

>> Well, I don't I've tried. I've tried and it doesn't it just doesn't add up with daycare, with everything. It It just

doesn't add up.

>> What's your house payment? No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, it you you have not done a budget because the math you're giving me is just not factual. Okay. You don't you can pay

daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000.

That's $8,000 a month.

Quit your 401k if you're getting a

refund. Reset your W TWS and quit getting a tax refund. Cash out whatever s money you've got in savings. chop up the credit cards and attack this. So,

there's something uh Liz, your your hopelessness is not logical

unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor. But if he is uh if he's acting like I'm talking about and he goes, "Yeah, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to stop the 401ks. We're not going on any vacations.

We're going to sell so much stuff the kids are afraid they're next. We're getting extra jobs. We're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together.

I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. 5,000 bucks a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year.

That leaves me a h 100,000 to live on.

That's what it takes right there. You just got to go do this now. And but you can't you can't live in the past and be going, "Well, I get back to any." I don't care. What all we all that matters is the next 12 months. Game on, baby.

Super Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone. Let's go.

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Emily is with us in New York. Hi Emily.

How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so my question is about if my husband and I are financially prepared to start a family or if we should wait a little bit longer to be responsible.

>> You're ready.

>> Um, maybe I would you like the background or is it out of blanket answer? [laughter] >> Uh, I'll give I'll I'll take the background as a courtesy. But here's the thing. We don't tell people to not have babies due to debt.

We tell them to not have huge numbers of babies, but you know, your first baby, start a family is a wonderful thing. It's the best thing you'll ever do while you're alive. And um we don't tell people to not do that because of a certain dollar figure around it. But let's hear it and I can give you some reassurance.

Okay. So, we actually um just have 30k

of student loans that are completely interest free between the two of us.

>> Okay, cool. And uh and what do you [clears throat] is that your only debt?

>> That's our only debt. >> And what is your household income? home.

So, our that's the issue is that so our

household income is um $120,000 of a

base salary uh with $50,000 in equity

and that's because equity mean

>> equity means so it's basically just registered stock units paid out quarterly because my husband works for um a large company and that's part of their compensation package. So he can cash those out how often?

>> He can cash them out um whenever after

they vest. Like there's a vesting period. >> How long do they take for them to vest?

That's what I'm asking. >> Um this year it'll vest at the end of

the year and then after that it's quarterly. >> Oh wow. Okay. So fif So he makes $170,000 a year including his stock bonuses. >> Yes. But not this he won't make that this year because we just started with that company. Um, we're also both 24.

Uh, so there's a few considerations. We just recently got married. Um, but we're living in New York City and our rent is crazy. We don't have a car. We're our budget despite the salary is pretty tight. We don't have a lot of free cash every month. Um, and we are invested.

>> That's the problem is that we actually had to move to the States for this job for my husband. So, I had saved him and

I together had saved about 150k before we moved here. And then I had to give up my job thinking I'd be able to get another job, but the immigration restrictions on what jobs I'm allowed to work have been so tight that it's been a few months and I have nothing. So, before we moved here in our home country, I was making about 80k and now I'm making nothing. And I feel like I'm just kind of sitting around at home and I've always wanted to be a mom and I've always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.

And we're like, do we just start a few years earlier than we thought we would or should I both He's not on a green

card. What's he on? HB1.

>> Um, no. He's on a a TN visa, which is

because we're from Canada.

>> Oh, okay. Both both of you are from Canada. So, you're on a green card?

>> Um, no. So, we'll work towards the green card process eventually if we want to stay in the US long term, but right now he's just on TN and I'm on a dependent spousal visa. >> Okay. So, what is the plan? Are you planning to stay or not?

>> Um, we'll see what his business requires. Um, as it's more of a following a passion for work thing than it is about immigrating somewhere specific. So, if the company requires him here, we'll stay here. If they require him in Canada, we'll go to Canada.

Um, >> what can you do right now? >> That's another factor. >> What kind of work can you do? What kind of work can you do that is immigration allowed?

Let me let me let me rephrase. You told us there were a ton of restrictions. So I'm wondering what kind of work can you do that's not restricted. >> Yeah. So to try to explain. So basically

you can get a visa if your work aligns

with exactly what you did your undergraduate degree in. And I did my undergraduate degree in a science and then I had been working in consulting and project management and a business role before we moved here. and none of those qualify for a visa in the United States because it has to be a very specific technical job. Like my husband's an engineer, but project management does not qualify, but I don't have any technical science experience despite my degree.

So, I'm having a really hard time finding a job that I'm legally allowed to work because I never plan to move to the States.

>> Now, does he have in this situation, does he have health insurance?

>> Yeah, he has really good health insurance. >> Okay. All right. And it will probably transfer where you to go back to Canada and have great health insurance there, right? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, we'd be fine. And with all the health care stuff, it's more just I don't I hear all the time,

>> oh, here's the thing. You don't need anything. >> Three years, three years from today, you will not be in this situation.

>> Correct. Once if we get a green card, >> something's going to happen. You're either going to get a green card or you're going to go back to Canada, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so this is a temporary, this

income is a temporary thing based on all the story that you've told us. And if I woke up in your shoes and you guys both want a child and God wants you to have a child, I would go have a child. That's what I would do. And there's, you know,

but do I want to be irresponsible and say neither one of us are working? No, I don't want to do that. or do I want to be irresponsible and have uh you know 10

kids and we make $30,000 a year and can't figure out a way to feed them. That's irresponsible too. I wouldn't want to do that. But to have a child when you're making 120,000 and you've got an uncertain immigration process looking in front of you in the next 5 years, I would definitely live my life.

I wouldn't put my life on hold for his

company, which is in a sense what we're doing.

And so no, I wouldn't do that. Uh uh and

and I think you can afford it and I think you can make it and you know you've got labor and delivery covered and you know babies are not as expensive as everybody acts like. It's not the end of the world and I think you guys can pull this off. You do whatever you want to do but that's what we would do at our house.

I I I just am so frustrated for her. I I I just bang my head against the wall metaphorically as I'm listening to this.

You know, here's a law-abiding Canadian.

She wants to work and the the the goofball rules that the government comes up with sometimes makes me want to just scream. >> Yeah. >> You know, because this is an opportunity to work and and if I understood her correctly, Dave, she can't do anything like she can't even go to Walmart and work. >> Right.

Right. She unless it's something to do with her degree, >> right? >> Her degree field. That's what she said.

I don't I'm not I'm not knowledgeable about any of that. >> I am not either, but wow. >> Um but it's um it is frustrating. But either way, bottom line is she ends up at home and that makes her say, "I want to be a mom." >> Yeah.

>> I would tell them get into every dollar, learn how to budget because I know that my parents, they scrapped by I don't know what your parents situation was, but they hardly had any money when I was born and they figured it out. And in some ways, it's a you know, that's a great way to get really responsible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It just it makes you pay attention and and every dollar is a good way to pay attention. You're exactly right. you're going to make every dollar behave, you know, and you need to anyway, but especially wakes up when you got another human you're supposed to be responsible for. And um that that's a

that that extra responsibility gives us that adults devise a plan and follow it.

Children do what feels good. So, we're going to do this. So, and I you know, I think she's being very responsible asking the question. I kind of poked fun and said yes, just go have a baby.

But, but you know, but the uh but I think it's it's a responsible question, which means they're going to be okay. >> Yeah. Well, you know what I loved is she told us how much money they saved before coming to the States. This is a couple that has learned how to be disciplined.

It's a lot of money they saved. $150,000. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And he's making 170. They can make it on that. This stuff best. You can cash that.

Don't hold that stock and stack it up and starve to death. You know, cash that stock in. Take care of that baby. You You'll be okay.

Just Just go on.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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hey.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Malachi's in Tucson,

Arizona. Hey Malachi, how are you?

>> Pretty good. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, uh, I have myself in kind of a

financial hole that I'm finding harder to get out of than I expected.

Um, I have debt that I'm trying to get rid of, but it just seems like it's not getting anywhere.

>> That's no fun. How much debt have you got, brother?

>> Uh, I have just about $260,000 of debt.

>> Okay. Give me a little breakdown on that. What's the What's the categories?

So, $250,000 of that is my house and uh

the other I'd say about $10,000 is money that I

owe family.

>> Mhm. [snorts] You So, you don't owe anything on a car or a credit card or a student loan?

>> Uh I do I do owe $4,000 on my car.

>> Okay. All right. And what else? Anything

else?

>> No, other than that, that's it.

>> Okay. And so what's your income, sir?

>> Uh my income is at $90,000 per year right now. >> Okay.

So why can you not pay these bills with 90,000 bucks?

>> Well, uh I've been eating away at the debt of my home. Uh in just over 6 months, I've paid $110,000 of it. Um

>> that's far from being stuck, sir. That's

actually incred incredible progress.

>> Yeah. It just it doesn't quite feel that way. I have no money in the bank. Have uh >> Well, you paid it all on debt.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you're not going to have money in the bank till you clear the debt. So, I would back up and knock the $4,000 car debt and the $10,000 family debt out next before I pay any extra on the house.

>> And then I would put an emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses. And so I'd put 15,000 bucks in

a high yield savings account that's sitting there just for emergencies.

And so I just gave you $30,000 worth of an assignment. How quick can you knock 30 out?

>> Well, I would have to figure about 6 months, maybe less. >> Yeah, that sounds right. >> Mhm. >> Because you're living on nothing. You're you're game on. I mean, you not got any lifestyle eating this up or you wouldn't be making this kind of mathematical progress.

Yeah. So, >> you're already pretty stinking frugal, aren't you? >> Yeah, very much so. Yes, >> I'm thinking >> basically top ramen every day.

>> There you go. >> Yeah. I got a different word for you, Malachi. You don't have an elimination problem. You have an allocation problem.

And our baby steps, the snowball, uh, is where you start here. And all of a sudden, this momentum is going to just be unbelievable for you. You just been going about it the wrong way. >> Get the family and the car off your back. An emergency fund in place of 15,000. that's 30,000 worth. Then you go

back and start talking about the house again. And you don't have to be so intense on the house. You're going to wander out of that house.

>> You don't have to be quite so fired up about it. So, um, it's interesting though, the way you opened the phone call with us. It sounded like you were >> on the verge of bankruptcy or something like you were stuck. And you and quite

the opposite is true. you're making incredible progress and you you're living on nothing and applying all of your money towards your goals. So, um

you know, you're way ahead of the game.

You're far from stuck, sir. You're actually very successful.

>> Well, I mean, uh you know, I'm 23 years

old. Uh just turned 23 and uh feel I I

just felt I guess off that uh I have no money in the bank and you know, >> Well, that's fair. Okay. But but you

know, you you're you understand the progress you're making mathematically is pretty incredible.

>> I can see that. Yes. >> Okay. All right. I want you to own that cuz that's that helps you continue cuz if you feel like you're like you're doing something wrong, you know, you lose your emotional momentum to fight on through. But get the family off your back. Not like they're on your back. They may or may not be. And get the car off your back. It is definitely there.

And um have 15,000 in the bank. I think that'll put you in a different emotional spot. And then let's let's turn up the

lifestyle a little bit like have a life

and uh and slow down a little bit on

paying off the house. I want you to pay it off in you know four or five years three or four years. So like I don't know you're 27 with a paid for house in Tucson, Arizona. That would be a weird

Gen Z thing to do.

>> Lovely. You know, I I want to point out to our audience, we have a lot of new people joining us all the time. And I'm glad, Dave, that you're here on this call because this is an example of why so many years ago you created the baby

steps to create not just financial momentum, but actually emotional momentum. And so, here's a guy who's got his act together. The studio audience is shocked. There's a 23-year-old. He's like, I feel like I'm stuck. Well, he's been putting all of his money on the biggest piece of his debt, which is the house. And therefore he has no emotional

momentum and that's why he presents this way and that's the magic of what you created all these years ago. >> Yeah. The the power of baby steps is you can go anywhere you want to go if you just keep walking. >> Right.

>> It's just one step at a time. >> Right. >> And so um >> he feels like he's in a hamster wheel right now because he's going at it the wrong order. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And so knock out the little stuff, you know, start achieving some of the goals. So hang on Malachi. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover.

About 10 million people have got it.

uh the ba the baby steps are outlined in that and it'll show you exactly what to do and it'll change that because Ken's right. What we figured out Malachi and for the rest of you is is that personal finance is 80% behavior.

It's only 20% head knowledge. The mathematics of wealth building you learn by the sixth grade.

It's not rocket science. This is not med

school. You don't have to have a master's degree in finance and stat statistics to become wealthy. It's literally sixth grade math. So math is

not our problem. It's not bothering

>> to pay attention to the guy in the mirror and his decisions. Malachi is paying attention to the guy in the mirror and is making great >> progress. We're just going to redirect his progress a little bit so he feels it. >> That's exactly right.

And the uh and if you feel it, then that matters because this is behavior. >> Yeah. >> So, it's all about feedback loops, the the psychologist would tell you. So, you're not going to keep going to the gym and not quit eating and not stay away from donuts if you don't lose weight as a result.

>> If I'm going to lose if I'm going to not lose weight or I'm going to gain weight, I might as well enjoy it, you know? But

if you go to the gym and you stay away from donuts, I'm talking to Dave. Um then then you can drop some poundage, right? And then you go, "Oh, well that behavior resulted in a result that I like." So I get a feedback. That's exactly >> I get feed positive feedback keeps me doing it. Yes. That's a feedback loop >> and that's that's where all this comes from and where it goes to. So very very good stuff. Devin is in Kansas City. Hi

Devin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey, so me and my wife are wanting to know if we are in a good financial spot to make her a stay-at-home mom.

>> Can you live on your income?

>> I believe so. It's going to be tighter than what we're used to. >> Well, of course. >> After after budgeting it out and doing

our every dollar budget, >> what do you make after all?

>> I make about $56,000 a year.

>> What's she make?

She makes about between 20 and 25.

>> How many kids have you got?

>> So, we've got one right now and one on the way due in about November.

>> Okay. Well, daycare and some professional clothing is just about eating up her income.

>> Yeah, she works in a daycare luckily.

So, >> Oh, well then it's not.

>> So, she gets 25 plus she gets a deal on the baby daycare, right?

Yeah. And I think we would technically qualify for daycare assistance in Kansas, so that would help out as well.

>> Well, I don't even know what that is, but Okay. Um, we have daycare

assistance. All right. Good.

>> That's another government program.

>> Sounds It sounds like sounds like a joy to me. But the um but I don't guess you need that if she's going to be at home.

>> Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So >> So here's what you do, man. run not only run your budget. Uh between now and the time she quits, live two or 3 months on your income without touching hers.

>> Yeah. >> And apply all of her income or more to

your baby steps and prove to yourself that you can live on your income. Just act like she doesn't have an income and run your household because if she quits, she ain't going to have an income. You can better get used to that. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host [music] today. Thank you for joining us, America. If you like the show, you could help us. We could use your help big time. You [music] want to help? Ready, set, go. Here's what you do. Click follow or share the show or

subscribe or leave a fivestar review.

Mama said if you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all. So, try that, you little trolls. And uh, you

know, have some fun out there, people.

Hey, spread the word. We appreciate it very much. We know that we were the fourth show in history on Apple Podcast

to have a billion downloads.

That was a year and a half ago. Joe Rogan was one of the first and one of the NPRs and then us. And um now we're

at a billion and a half downloads where you get about a billion minutes watched

on YouTube every 35 minutes. It's crazy.

I mean it's nuts. I mean, the I need to call the billions and billions of you. I mean, the the number of hours and minutes consumed by you guys out there is crazy. Thank you so much.

So, we know you're there and we know you're spreading the word because the numbers are growing. So, thank you and continue to share the show and >> spread the word and subscribe and follow and all that kind of stuff. It does help us because it changes the algorithms and, you know, pushes the show forward to other people to see it. Lauren is in New York City.

Hi, Lauren.

Hi, good afternoon, Dave.

>> Afternoon. How can I help?

>> So, I am at a point where I am drowning

in credit card debt. I have about $70,000 in credit card debt currently, and I can't really stop the bleeding.

Um, it's all due to attorney fees. Um,

>> you paid $75,000 in attorney's fees.

>> Um, also moving. Um, I was in a situation where I was married and um, my husband was an alcoholic and substance abuser and um, I had to get out of that

situation and get >> So, what did you spend to move?

>> About I'm in Westchester, so it was about $9,000 to move between like broker fees. >> So, you spent $60,000 bucks on lawyer fees?

>> Yes.

>> For what?

Uh I've had to fight tooth and nail for my child. Um it's been a very challenging court case. Um at this point he has um the court has ruled he cannot have access u to my 9-year-old daughter.

Um but it's been [clears throat] contempt orders and violation not on my

part um on his and it's also there's an

attorney um guardian adm

um so I'm paying both of the attorneys.

It's just been a very harrowing um experience that we are thankfully going to come to the end of hope soon by the end of the year. >> Okay. So, the bleeding is stopping then.

>> And uh it will what a horrible thing.

I'm so sorry. >> What What do you make? What's your What's your income?

>> Um I make $90,000 a year. Um and I'm in

a very expensive area that I'm not legally allowed to leave. Um, I am

currently working at a nonprofit organization and I can make more money.

I have a doctorate in physical therapy, but I am tied to my job for the next two and a half years because I have extensive student loans totaling in the amount of $260,000 and I'm in public service loan forgiveness. Um, and I only pay 414 a month. So after that, my loans will be forgiven. So I'm plus they're very flexible.

I have a daughter with special needs, so I'm really kind of stuck at that amount right now, making that $90,000.

And I do not receive any type of child support or anything like that. Um, and I I'm just making the bare minimum on the credit card payments. And so, I'm trying to figure out when this is all said and done and I can, you know, go and I can't touch anything. >> Is there any financial settlement that you're going to get from the divorce?

No, no, there's absolutely nothing. I'll be lucky if I get child support at this point. I'm not I'm not going to bank on anything at this point.

>> If you if you could I understand your the limitations based on the loan forgiveness, but could you practice physical therapy today just theoretically on paper with your current qualifications?

>> The answer is yes. But I also have a

daughter with special needs that requires a lot of my time and if I had to pay for child care um that that would

plus finding a provider that would be able to provide that child care. I'm kind of in you know a very difficult situation. >> So no no family support or friends in Westchester at all that could help out.

>> No no my my my family is from Florida. I

don't have any family here.

>> Okay. Um,

so here's what's going to happen.

Something's going to explode

because you have painted a picture

that says, um, I'm stuck in the corner and everything around me is wet paint

and I can't move.

>> And yet you're going to get your feet.

You're going to get paint on your feet.

something's going to give. This is not

sustainable. That's why you called us.

So, >> yes, >> I don't know what it is that's going to give. Uh but something's going to happen here and it's not going to be pretty. Uh you're going to have another set of problems and anxietyridden mess following this anxietyridden mess of a divorce because you painted yourself into this corner of I don't have any choices. I don't have any choices.

you better make some because what you're telling me isn't sustainable and you know it's not sustainable. So you need to get your lawyer that's so dadgum expensive to go before the court and get you out of Westchester County and you need to forget the stupid loan pro forgiveness cuz you're probably not going to get it and you need to go make about $200,000 a year and get your freaking life back or something. I don't know what it is, but something's got to change >> because everything that we bring up, everything we talk to you and ask you about is a trap.

I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped. I'm trapped.

That was the answer to every one of your questions. I don't have any choices. I don't have any choices.

So, math will not give you a pass. Math

does not believe in grace. Math does not

believe in mercy.

It's going to come for you. and it already is and you're feeling it and that's why you're calling. So, I'm not trying to scare you, but uh your process

by all the stress you've been through and all the damage you've been through, it it has made you believe that you are trapped and don't have choices. And I'm challenging that you do have choices and you better make some you better change something here because you're not going to get help from him. I'm betting that the student loan forgiveness doesn't work because such a low percentage of those actually do go through and you may have sacrificed a great income for a lousy income. Um, and I don't think you're trapped there.

I think if you go before the judge and go, "Your honor, I don't make enough money to live in Westchester. I can't live here. Help me out here. Where can I go?

What can you tell me what to do?" And you go before the judge with that plea.

the math that you've given me doesn't work doesn't continue. It's something's going to come up short and it's going to choose you if you don't choose it. That's what I'm saying. So you're not stuck. But um but you do have a very difficult situation and um part of it is

um you you're [gasps and sighs] my heart's breaking for you honey because my I hear your language is as if you have been abused

in this relationship. So if you were in a domestic violence situation, one of the things the abuser convinces

the the person of is that they don't have any choices and that they're stuck.

You can't leave. if you can't afford to live without me, so you have to stay and let me be a let and be my punching bag.

And so that's one of the lies they tell.

And then you start to believe that lie yourself. Now, you broke free of this guy, but your language of I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I'm stuck is breaking my heart because it still sounds like he still owns you. And I want you free from

him and free from this trap and free from all this. I wish I had a magic wand. I could just say there's an instant thing here. But the one thing I will tell you is you got to make some different choices.

>> Yeah. >> This is not it's not working for you, hun. >> You know, I'm so sorry. >> She can find people that can help take care of the child, but she's the only one that can feed the child.

And so, for that reason, I would drive this home. I would be getting into physical therapy and making the most money possible. That gives you more options.

money in [music] the most expensive county in freaking New York area except possibly Manhattan. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Shay is in Idaho. Hi Shay, how are you?

>> Hi there. I'm glad to be speaking with you Dave and Ken. I'm very grateful for your ministry. >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

>> Yeah, my question is around the enjoyment side of money. Um my husband and I both struggle with that and

specifically around planning and booking vacations. Um when that time comes around, I just start to feel so much like anxiety and like shame um about

spending so much money on something. Um

it's just hard for us. And so I was wondering if you had any tips.

Well, number one, you have to practice because you've not developed that muscle. Your frugal muscle is overdeveloped and that's how you got here. Thank goodness.

But you've you've not you've not flexed your enjoyment muscle very much while

you were flexing your frugal muscle.

Agreed?

>> Probably. Yeah. >> So, the more you do it, the better you get at it. Um, I speak from experience.

Um yeah, >> I mean the I I had a hard time buying a decent car, you know, and now I don't have any trouble at all. [laughter] >> That has been our struggle as well.

>> Yeah. The second the second thing is um

I look at ratios

and um the ratios are what percentage of

our world are we actually spending and how does it compare to our generosity.

So we look over here and we say our generosity equals X >> and this dinky butt little trip we're doing is a small small small percentage

of what we make and what we give.

>> Okay? >> And so my heavenly father who's crazy

about me says if we being evil know how

to give our children good things, how much more so our father in heaven wants

us to have good things. in other words.

And so, um, you know, God's not mad if I

enjoy some of the blessings that he gave me while I'm being generous. And while

the amount of money it feels like a lot

cuz it's compared weirdly emotionally to the old days, but as a percentage of my world today, it's a very small amount.

And that that's you know the ratio thing, the generosity thing and uh the

acknowledgement. So another example of that is okay around Ramsey we have 1100

team members. We're in 650,000

square feet.

>> We spend more. We we furnish coffee. We

have coffee these grinding coffee machines on every floor, right? That make fresh brewed ground coffee for everybody, right? And they don't pay for it. It's free to all the team members.

We spend more on coffee than I made in a

year most of my life. [laughter]

>> That still freaks me out. You know,

>> it's still a problem, but it's just a matter of scale and ratio. And but it's a very small percentage of what Ramsay, the organization, has coming in in revenues. So obviously, we're not being irresponsible. We're not going to have to shut down because of our coffee. It's not even close. And that's the case, I'm guessing. What's your all's net worth, Shay?

>> Um, over a million.

>> And what's what is your household household income?

>> Um, my husband makes 120 and I make

around 50. >> So 170 with a million. And what are you talking about spending on a trip?

>> They just get more expensive every year.

>> What are you talking about spending on a trip? Uh, like 12 to 15.

>> Yeah. Well, it's it's absurdly small percentage of your world.

>> Is that you, hubs, the kids?

>> While we were talking about this, the million dollars made you 12.

>> That's true. >> Who's going on the trip?

>> All six of us, >> right? How old are the kids?

>> Oh, sorry. They're six, eight, 10, and 11. >> Okay. As a guy who has who has one in college and another one graduating high school, I'm going to give you two words that I think you need to process the next time you start feeling this shame

about spending money because you've already proven to be frugal. So, here's what I want you to think of. Return versus regret. What's the return on that

investment of the 12 to 15,000 with those six kids 10 years, 20 years, 30

years from now? What's the return on those memories and all of the things all right versus the regret >> if you don't take those kinds of trips with those six and then they get out and and I think return versus regret. You've already proven you're frugal. So Dave and I aren't here worried about you overspending. But you've got to play those words out. What's the return on this trip? And then what would the regret be if we didn't do things like this and had all this money?

>> Yeah. but very few memories and experiences. >> Hey, the the return versus the regret

does not work if you're borrowing the money to do it. Boys and girls out there in in radio land. Hello. Good point.

Yes. >> So, this lady's a millionaire making 170 and she's going to write a check for this. That's right. Don't use the same argument. I put $12,000 [laughter] on my credit card cuz Ke Coleman said I would regret it if I didn't go on this vacation. No, you'd be you'd be regretting being stupid if you did that.

>> Thank you for clarifying that. That is within the context of you have cash.

Yeah, you have the money. It's a small percentage of your world. And I suspect your generosity is larger than your trip. >> Mhm. >> I suspect most people who get where you are, their generosity is there.

>> So, hey, you're doing a good job. Enjoy the ride. >> Yeah. >> So, folks, there's uh this is where this falls under the reason I have to stop and clarify that is right. Live like no one else. So that >> that's correct. and she's at the so that >> later you can live and give like no one

else. >> But the truth is what I spend or what

someone who has accumulated some wealth

is a small percentage of of our wealth is spent on consumption. Most of it is spent on generosity and reinvestment.

The vast majority of the money that I touch and that flow that God has blessed me to manage for him is either reinvested for future generations or it

is invested in other ways called generosity. >> Back into the community in some

community somewhere and and some dollar amount. A and those are the two things

that make up the vast majority. The

highest percentage by far of our income

or of our net worth is invested in those

two things. Our consumption though is still ridiculously larger than it was when we were not

making any money and didn't have any money. So it still is emotional. It still feels weird. And you know,

sometimes even friends or dysfunctional family will say stupid things like, "You're so lucky." Well, that's a dumb

butt thing to say. Luck had nothing to do with it. >> Yeah, don't say that around Dave.

>> Luck had Luck comes in dressed with calluses and overalls getting ready to do some work. That's where luck comes in. I know where luck comes from. It's a

sweat. That's where luck comes from. I got your luck. Luck's when you win the raffle. >> Yeah. [laughter] lux when you were smoking crack in the parking lot and bought a lottery ticket and hit it. That's luck. There we go.

>> Okay, but that's luck. But this is not luck. This is work >> and God's blessings.

>> God God just deciding in [music] his infinite grace that he was going to touch us with the tip of his finger and bless the things that we were working on and protect us and allow

us to be sitting here. So, but don't call it luck. It's insulting to God and it's insulting to my calluses.

[music]

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Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you

be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me.

You're more in control than you think.

You can turn your finances around. So, let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So, you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000

just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So, decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at everydoll.com/livestream.

[music]

>> [music]

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Melanie is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Hi, Melanie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay. Um, so my husband and I have two

rental properties. Um, and uh, my

mother-in-law has lived in one since

2019.

Um, uh, she moved in from Vermont, didn't have a place to go, and so my husband let her move in to that house. Um, 2020

hit, my husband's in the army. um didn't

get a certain something that everyone was demanded they were told to get and he lost his job um that he was going to sell the house. She told him that God

told her it is not it is his job to take care of her because he is the son. So he bought a new house in the town down the road and she still lives currently in this same house. Um we have >> Were you all married at this time when God told her that about you?

No, we we were not we were not I was not

I was not around. Um >> Okay. >> So he was he was single and and she lived with him. >> Um so we have one child. We are

expecting our second one in October. Um

and I'm self-employed. My husband's still in the army. Um but we came mutually to to the decision that in August because my job is pretty physical that I'm going to stop working and that I'm only probably going to go back maybe one or two days a week. Um, and so we

are we it would be very helpful to have

an actual income coming in from that house. She pays uh half half of the

mortgage. My husband pays 450 and his one brother gives 150 towards it. Um,

it's kind of a sticky situation. There's six siblings between all of them. Um, and everyone else has had their opportunity to grow and expand their family. My husband is the last one out of the six to be married and have kids.

So, we don't want to kick her out. Um,

but she >> Yes, you do.

>> Well, I I don't want to say I do, but it would it would just [laughter] it would it would it would just be it would just be helpful. Um, [laughter] >> you're so sweet. Just tell them what just say what you mean. You want her to leave. She She's taking advantage of everybody and you're over it.

Yes. And that's where my h that's where my husband is at. >> Well, then he needs to deal with his mom.

>> So, so, but this is the other thing. She won't move in to a senior highrise.

>> She will. She's homeless. >> She doesn't want to move anywhere. >> She will if she's homeless.

>> So, do you think that's that's our best option? Give her like 60 days and call her like >> Okay. >> Listen, I can tell you how to get you get her out. Just it's two words. Rubber snake. [laughter]

That's where I was going. I was going to ask what is she afraid of? Cuz we can make this really easy with no [laughter] tension. >> Well, but that's but that's the other that's the other hard thing is she she claims PTSD. She claims all of these all

of these issues. >> Well, I think I think I think I claim that she's moving into assisted living if she can't manage her life. [snorts]

and we'll help her do that um with a little bit of money >> and uh we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house. You need to sell the house >> and uh and that's what that's we'll use some of the money from the sale of the house to help her get settled and then unplug the uh unplug the cord, the umbilical cord. Okay.

>> Okay. Cuz my my husband was just want just from the Christian perspective. He he >> No, honey, there's nothing Christian about. Let me just tell you, okay, I had a guy walk into the office here a while back at the front desk and they said, "There's a guy down here to see you." And I walked down. He said, "God told me you were going to buy me a van."

>> And I said, "No, he didn't.

He didn't tell you that." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "He absolutely did not tell you that." Because if he had told you that, he would have told me and there'd be a van sitting out there for [laughter] you. >> But he didn't tell me. >> Okay. So, I'm always I'm always interested as a Christian for people who play the God card with such authority and uh all they are is a manipulator.

>> This has nothing to do with honoring your mother. When they say honor your father and your mother, it doesn't say honor their misbehavior. It says honor the office of motherhood, the office of fatherhood. If your mom does cocaine and wants you to buy it for her, that is not a godly act.

>> Okay? >> Right? And your your mother-in-law is misbehaving. She's a travel agent for guilt trips.

>> She's got issues. >> That's good. I'm gonna use that. I've never heard that before. >> I know. That's a good one. [laughter] >> Yeah, I like that. >> And your poor husband has been pushed around by her and and and then she plays the God card and God didn't tell her that. That's a complete load of crap.

>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> It's absolutely not true.

>> What's your husband's stomach for all of this? Is he going to take her? Is he going to take her on?

>> No. So, his thought was he was going to

uh put the house on section 8 and then we would register her for section 8 housing. >> That's awful. She needs to move.

>> You need to deal He needs to deal with his mom.

>> He needs to lovingly kindly go sit down, have a cup of coffee, and go, "Mom, we're done.

I love you and I'm going to help you move into some assisted living with some of the money I make from the sale of this house. But you have milked this cow and it is dry >> and you're not milking anymore. Mom, we're done. Well,

no, Mom. You're confused. I said we're done. And I wasn't kidding. We are done.

You are moving. You're either going to move gently and kindly with my assistance or I'm going to set you in the street with the sheriff. Now, do you want to play this the easy way or the hard way? I've you've reached the end of my patience. I am done. I love you. I'm

going to help you as best I can, but you

living here is not going to happen anymore. He needs to have the backbone to say that. >> Mhm.

>> Thank you. >> And you don't need to be in the room.

Well, that's Yeah, they they have a he has a lot of animosity. >> You don't need to be in the room. You'll get blamed for all this. The wicked you'll be the you'll be the wicked stepdaughter.

>> If he's got animosity towards her, this actually should be a little easier because Well, you just got to be careful to be kind. >> Yeah, but I mean, as far as disappointing her, I mean, look, you guys have got to tell Mama >> couldn't give a crap as if she's disappointed. I agree. >> It's not He's not disappoint.

He's not afraid she'll be disappointed.

also guilt trips him to keeping >> Well, then let him let him write the checks. >> You You guys got to cast a little vision. >> Isn't [laughter] it amazing how everybody's got an opinion about what you guys should do with your money?

>> That's the key. >> I know. >> This family is they put the fun in dysfunction, don't they?

>> Wow. >> You're coming home with a new baby, and this is a financial asset that will help you all live the life you want to live.

I'd stay in that lane to where they are painted in a corner. >> Multi-millionaire and you want to put up with this crap and you want to just write checks just to not have to deal with it. That's fine. But it's not good for her. She's going to continue to do this crap the rest of her life.

>> Yeah. >> And it's not good for It's not good for you guys. It's, you know, you're losing respect for your husband. He's losing respect for himself because he won't stand up >> to to this, you know, this mom that's out of control. And is not biblical automatically. you have to write checks for somebody who hasn't who doesn't do stuff. I mean, I I I want him to take care of her to the point he can. That'd be sweet. It's a charitable act, but it is not a biblical mandate. God did not

tell her that he was to furnish her a house. That's an absolute load of

religious crap. It's what that is. And

I, man, [music] I got I I love my brothers and sisters in Christ, but some of you people are oversaved. This is the Ramsey Show. Heat.

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Heat.

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>> [music]

[music] >> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start

[music]

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[music] in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtree stage. Nathan and Brittany are

with us. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Well, how are you doing? Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live?

>> Chattanooga. >> All right. Just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> $73,545.

>> Excellent. And how long did that take?

>> About 14 months. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> 80 to about 100,000.

>> Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I am a first grade teacher. >> Mhm. >> And I'm a mental health therapist and I direct a college counseling center for a local college. >> Oh, excellent. Very good. So, what kind of debt was the 74 grand?

>> It was taxes. It was a car, credit

cards, and I had student loans.

>> Student loans. >> Yeah. >> Y'all were kind of normal. >> Yeah, very normal. >> Yeah, normal sucks. Yeah, it >> did. >> So, what happened 14 months ago? What was your wakeup call? What was your uh something's got to change moment.

>> Yeah. Well, we went through Financial Peace University whenever we got married um 5 years ago and we were Ramsay-ish for about three and a half years and paid off only $30,000 of debt.

>> So, you flunked? >> Yes, very much so.

>> And then 14 months ago, we owed in taxes for the first time and had to get new tires on our car within a couple days of each other. and we both felt like we got punched because we had a bunch of bills.

We had student loans, credit cards, and now we had to get new tires and pay the IRS, which is a scary feeling.

>> It's interesting that owing the IRS

suddenly like that is like

100x more uh drama than owing the exact

same amount to a credit card company.

>> Yes, it was scary.

>> They're just like Yeah. and and with

good reason because they're scary people. But [laughter] >> yeah, >> but but wow, that does there is something puts a lump in your throat, a knot in the stomach, and you got to Okay, this has got to stop. >> Mhm. >> We got to get that old Financial Peace book back out and this time we're doing it. >> Yes. >> Exactly. >> Is that what it sounded like?

>> Yeah. I mean, we I started working um at

my school, we have an opportunity to work the late day program, and so I started working from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. every day. He started door dashing.

He started teaching classes.

>> Yeah. So we >> any extra that we could do. We were trying to do we cut up our credit cards.

>> Yeah. >> The whole nine yards. >> Yep. And got very serious. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Got on a budget.

>> We were on a budget, but we started actually following the budget. >> Oh, yeah. Actually doing it. Yeah.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> See, here's what I want people to hear. You knew the plan. You said you were ish. And then you go from ish to right.

[laughter] Like that R that Ramsay was like it's a it's a guttural kind of a sound. Mhm. >> So, what were beyond working hard, what were some of the communication changes in order to actually finally go, we're doing this thing?

>> Yeah, we had to quit making excuses.

And, you know, our date nights look a lot different. Um, Friday nights, we were having cheap pizza, watching Smart Money Happy Hour at home, [laughter] you know, I mean, just um Yeah, the communication we began to more just breathe and communicate. Ramsay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And we communicated about everything. Like people in our lives would be like, "You're talking about buying gum." >> But it'd be like, "No, we're we're communicating about everything, saying, "This is where our budget's going. Is it okay that we put this in the miscellaneous category?" Cuz it came up unexpectedly. Yeah. We just communicated about every little thing.

>> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> Glad the wakeup call was something small. >> Yeah. To knock out. Yeah.

>> That the why. So, so your your core

reason was to get away from that fear.

>> That's what drove you >> that that that moment, you know, I don't ever want to feel like this again.

>> Yeah. And to change our generation that

comes after us. We want >> That's the more noble step. Once you get past the fear, you're like, "Okay, we're going to change the family tree." >> Yeah. We never want our kids to experience that, >> right? The fear motivated us, but then also, I mean, we're both Christians. And so, once we began getting on that that path, like it wasn't easy. It felt like spiritual warfare at times. like things kept on coming up, coming up, coming up.

But we realized like, you know, we also want to use our finances to honor God and uh steward what we've been given.

Well, >> yeah. >> Yeah. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

>> Well, other than getting a Britney in their life [laughter] because like I could take an hour and talk about how incredible that she is. Um but other

other than that, because I've got her and that's my my step, but um but I would say know your why. just I mean tying it back into that and for ours was for um giving praise to the Lord Jesus.

>> Yeah. And intentionality because as we said it took us three and a half years to pay off 30,000 and then we paid off

73,000 in 14 months.

>> And it's just funny how we had so many people tell us on while we were on this journey, "Oh, I just wish we could do that. I wish we could do that." And it's like, well, you can. All you have to do is make the hard choices because it is [snorts] hard. It's not an easy thing.

It was the hardest season we've had so far. >> Yeah. >> But the intentionality is what changed it. And if we can do it, anyone can.

>> Yeah. Deloney says, "Choose your hard." I mean, it's hard to owe the IRS money >> and not be able to put your tires on your car. >> That's hard. >> But there's also the hard of I'm going to sacrifice so I don't ever have to face that again. That's that's a better hard to choose. Let's choose that one.

And that's the one you chose the second time. Good job, y'all. Well done. Very very very well done.

>> So, um, >> what was the hardest part? What was the biggest fight you had while you were doing this 14 months?

>> Um, the hardest part was just making

sure that we were both serious at the

same time because it is hard and it's really nice to do this with somebody to keep you accountable. And so when I would say, I think we should use the

budget for this, or he should we she he would say that we should use the budget for this, we it was just hard sometimes getting on the same page and it was really easy to have one person say, "Well, why not for this?" Oh, also, no spend months are hard.

>> Those are really, really hard. Um, and so just making sure we would get on the same page. >> Yeah. And I'm, you know, Rachel Cruz talks about like I'm a spontaneous giver. She says that in her book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And for me, I had to be like, "No, I can't give," right? I mean, we gave to our church. Obviously, that was our plan to giving, but for me, I had to keep that like longist goal of like, I want to be able to live and give like no one else.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, right now, I'm going to not do the spontaneous, right? Yeah.

Everything's got to be dialed into a plan for a period of time here with this intensity. Yeah. Right.

>> Well done, you guys. Proud of y'all.

Thank you. Who was cheering you on? We had a lot of good cheerleaders in our life, but our main ones are here today.

We have my parents, as I said, my dad, he had us do Financial Peace University whenever we first got married. And then my mom, she is an avid couponer and so we haven't paid for toiletries or anything like that because of her. And then also, there were sometimes that we'd come home from work and our fridge would be full of groceries cuz she was just being a great blessing. And then my best friend Megan is here and she has just been the ultimate cheerleader.

every little thing. She'd be like, "You paid off $50." Yeah, that's awesome.

Just during every [laughter] little step along the way. So, just truly a great cheerleader. >> Very cool. Good job, you guys. You surround yourself with people that love you and support you and that instead of bunch of Debbie Downers around you. That's very smart. Very smart. Well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. Poor Debbie and poor Karen. They've just gotten messed over, haven't [laughter] they? >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, way to go you two. Very, very cool. Good stuff. Nathan and Britney from Chattanooga. $74,000

paid off in 14 months, making 80 to 100.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree. [screaming]

>> That is how it's done. Wow. [applause]

Ken, if we can ever solve the formula to

get people to be intense automatically while they're in the class, >> sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. But if we can solve that formula and not have that three and a half year gap of ish >> before something has to come along punch you in the gut to get you awake, we will we will have hit, you know, we will have hit a milestone. That that would be huge >> cuz the number of people number of you listening out there right now, you know, you you you listen to this stuff, but you don't do it. >> Yeah.

And and here's the thing. I'm just sitting here watching this and those of you that are listening, you could hear it in Nathan.

it rip. And what's fun about watching that, and there's no judging whether you're louder than than the next deck free screamer, but there's something emotional there. And to your point, Dave, if you can figure out how good it's going to feel in that a class

>> like and you see what it feels like, >> uh, that's the idea is bottling that and going, why would I want to delay that? I want to get through this now and experience what's on the other side of it. >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Step away from the ish, >> right? That's right. >> Don't do the ish. Back away. Don't do

the ish. Don't do it. >> Just cannonball. >> Don't do it.

This is the Ramsey Show.

[music]

[music]

Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money, but still stuck? I was you. in debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out, it's not the numbers.

It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, to help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre-order now and score over $100 in free bonus items, but only if you order by January 5th.

Our

[music]

scripture today, Philippians 2:14 and 15. Do everything without grumbling or arguing [music] so that you become may become blameless and pure children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.

Then will you then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Thomas Saul

said there has now been created a world

in which the success of others is a grievance rather than an example. Woo.

Wow. Javier is with us in Denver. Hey Javier. What's up?

>> Hey there Dave. Um so you guys straight to the point sir. Thank you for picking my call. Uh my dad wants to get a heliloc. Um but he wants me to cosign.

Uh cuz I don't think I he can get it on his own. Uh the the heliloc is 55,000

11% interest. Um and I'm just kind of like wondering what I should do.

>> Well, you know what you should do? You just don't know how to tell your dad no?

>> Yeah, I I guess so.

>> How old are you? >> I want to I want to help. Um I'm 23. Why

in the world does a father need a 23y old to sign a heliloc cosign a heloc with him? He must really be in a mess.

>> I I mean from the outside looking in I can probably Yeah. >> Listen, if he needs a co-signer that's a 23 year old, he's made a mess.

Otherwise, he'd be able to get it on his own.

Roger that. >> Yeah.

So, play this out. Play this out. Let's say you do this and he keeps making a mess of his life, which he already has.

You acknowledge that. What does that do to you and your personal finances? And what does it do to your relationship?

>> Yeah. It's it's going to it'll affect it

in a negative way. >> Absolutely, young man. So, we're not trying to be unkind. We're trying to save you from uh get him hold into this match. >> Save him from some grief. What's he want for? Do you know?

>> Yes, sir. Um, so, uh, he owns a towing company and I work for the towing company and, uh, uh, he wants the helock

to so that we can get insurance for the tow trucks. Um, and he also wants it to pay off a loan and some credit cards and, um, that's what he wants it for.

So, >> why why is the tow truck company not making money?

>> Uh, well, tow truck company was making money. Um, but the insurance payment is

what's kind of like it's kind of a lot.

It's not making enough to pay its own insurance payment.

>> It seems to be that way. Yes. >> Yeah. One of the expenses of operating a tow truck company is having insurance and it's not making a profit enough to even or not making enough revenue to even pay the expenses is what you're telling me.

>> Yeah, I guess so. >> No, I mean really if the company was making money, he'd have the money, right?

>> Yeah.

How much is the insurance payment? Do you know?

>> So, he wants to do a down payment on the insurance for $7,000. And I think uh I asked him what it would be annually. If you can just do like an annual payment, maybe 35,000. >> Mhm. >> Um >> do you know what the gross revenues of your company is?

>> Uh no sir, I don't I don't know what the gross revenues are.

>> How many trucks are y'all running?

>> Uh we run two. I run one and then he runs the uh another one of our drivers runs the other one and then my dad works a full-time job.

>> Okay.

So, the guy that trained me said that financial problems are not the problem, they're the symptom.

So, the problem of not being able to pay the insurance and having run the credit card up on the tow truck business is that the tow truck business is not profitable enough.

That's the problem. That doesn't get better with a loan.

>> It gets worse with a loan.

>> You follow me? >> Understood. So, what this is is it if I were coaching your dad as a small business guy, which we coach small business guys all the time. Um, I would tell him, "Let's work on the business and fix the business problem.

What do we do to increase our revenues, drop our expenses?" Because he's not making enough.

>> He's not making enough to pay his own insurance. >> So, it may be that they need to get out of the tow truck business cuz it's not even his real job. It's yours, but it's not his and you can get another job.

Um, but you know, so we got to fix the

business to where the business is profitable because let's say the business had $50,000 cash in the bank because it was making so stinking much money. You and I wouldn't be on the phone, Javier.

>> Yeah, that makes uh complete sense.

>> Yeah. So, the business has got issues.

It's got problems. And your dad's not a bad guy. He's a hardworking dude. He's trying to figure this out. But I'm coaching him through you right now. My coaching to him is let's fix the business problem, not borrow and cover

up the business problem and let the business problem continue because the borrowing is going to make it worse. So, no honey, you don't need to cosign for a heliloc. Your dad doesn't need to take out a heliloc. He needs to get above this problem and solve it for the tow truck business or get out of the tow truck business. But don't go borrow on your home, sir, to pay your insurance when your tow trucks aren't making enough to pay their own insurance.

That's a bad plan for your dad.

>> Such wisdom. I hope people that are out there that may be struggling in a small business or a side hustle, you got to know when to fold them. You know, you've got to know. And if you can't fix that business, go ahead and shut the business down. Don't keep digging a deeper hole and fund it personally through debt. We see this a lot. And this breaks people.

It breaks them. >> Yeah. And he's, you know, and here's the thing. This dad I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna give him a benefit of a doubt. His son is driving the trucks. It's his side hustle. >> Yeah. >> Dad's side hustle, but his son's job.

>> That's right. >> And he's trying to keep this alive for his kid. >> I think that's right. I think that's right. >> And that's a bad play, too. >> Yeah. >> It's not It's not a good play. If it Let's either get this thing working or let's fold it up and sell the trucks.

>> How You've done this way longer than I have. How do you fight that real emotion? because that emotion is so strong to fight to stay to try to keep bailing water out of the boat. What how do you uh >> I just I just use Henry Cloud's uh necessary endings rule and that is when I don't have any real >> facts in front of me that indicate that there's a way around a way through this >> then I'm done.

>> Yeah. >> But if I if I've got a fact and if I try these three things and it works I'll be okay. Then I got to go try those three things before I give up. >> Right.

But if I if everything I played and I don't see a way around other than borrowing and making it worse >> then it's time to fold. Time to close up, sell the trucks. >> Yeah. >> Paul's with us in Canada.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave and Ken. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help, sir? >> Better than we deserve. Um well, here's here's our uh my situation. I'm sitting here with my wife and um we sold our

house 2 years ago. We were in some pretty deep debt and uh

uh we're in our mid to late50s.

>> Are you out of debt now?

>> We are 100% out of debt. We have some credit card a little bit of credit card debt. Nothing nothing too dramatic.

>> That would be like not 100% out of debt.

>> Well, there Okay. Two grand and 1,500.

Okay. So, you still hadn't learned your lesson. Okay.

>> Okay. [laughter] >> You sold your house to get out of debt and you're still playing footsie with these plastics.

>> Okay. >> Uh true.

>> Um we uh we have we we own our vehicles.

We uh don't owe anybody anything.

>> Before I run out of time, Paul, what's your question? My first of all, um I'm I'm actually

glad that Ken is uh online there with you guys because uh it's direction right

now. Uh we have about 50,000 just under 50 grand in the bank right now and uh my

wife wants to buy another house and I

don't. >> Why? Why don't you want to?

Um well I know the stress that um I was

under uh when we did own a house and making sure that the >> you guys have incomes, >> pardon me, >> you have incomes.

>> Uh my wife has income. I'm actually injured right now. Um I'm off work uh

until the new year. >> Okay. >> And um I'm only working part-time.

>> Okay. Well, when you're working and your incomes are there, if you take out a 15-year fixed rate loan where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay, you're 100% debtree, you've cut up the stupid butt credit cards, and you have an emergency fund in place, there shouldn't be any stress that those numbers there don't give you stress. And you buy a home that you can afford. I think before you had a home you couldn't afford and that's where the stress came from.

So, owning a home is a good thing. that owning a home is not necessarily stressful. Paying too much and spending more than I have on a home, that's what causes stress. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 116. My Fiancé Broke Off Our Engagement Because Of My Money Habits | February 5, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, [music] we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by my good pal Rachel Cruz [music] and we're taking your calls at88255225.

[music] Rita is in Louisville up first. What's going on?

>> Hi. Um I'm calling to uh

I don't to I I just went through a breakup over money and I want to figure

out how to heal from it and move forward. >> Oh, so sorry. How long was the relationship? um a couple of months we had just gotten engaged. >> Oh, what happened?

>> Um so my um my I guess now ex fiance is uh like

he is a very uh like anti-debt person.

Um which I agree with. I had um I have a

lot of debt. I have a lot of um I've

uh student loan debt and credit card debt um both from um taking care I put

everything on hold after my um dad died a number of years ago and I was taking care of um the family for a long time.

Um, and my my siblings were still in

school and >> um and I was I was 19 when when that

happened and um and just sort of got into um a lot of debt afterwards.

>> Yeah. >> And so >> um I have not it's so money is like very

emotional for me because I um I don't

have a good I don't have a good relationship with it and my family doesn't. And so when it came time to start going through the finances, um it

just it didn't go well.

>> Oh wow. He So he panicked. Did he panic around the amount of debt there is or did he panic of of your current you know

your current way of seeing money and how you deal with money currently?

>> It was it was over the behavior. Um the

the number itself wasn't concerning to him. It was it was the um it was the

behavior and my relationship with it.

>> Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, he ended it.

Was there any um was there any conversation around, hey, Rita, you know, if I'm going to if I'm going to go down this road of marriage, I want us to be on the same page. I want us to be a team. You know, would you would you be open and consider handling money differently? Like did he give you options or was it a pretty like closed case?

>> It was it started off with some options but it ended up being pretty closed case. >> Okay. >> How old are you?

>> 28. >> How many serious relationships have you had?

>> I've been um I've dated seriously for a

couple I don't know a couple of relationships. I had um a 5-year relationship in college and then um 3

and 1/2 years in my 20s and then earlier

20s um and then this was the this was

the most recent relationship.

>> Okay. So, not your first heartbreak, but this one was the most serious in terms of hey, we're going to this is leading towards marriage and he's the one kind of thing. >> Yeah, very much so. Yeah. >> And what what are your current money habits that he was like, I'm out. I can't do this. Um he was concerned

because so I have I I moved recently for

uh a job and my my family moved with me and I I knew because we were selling our house that I was going to have to take

sort of a short-term hit to to move um

before the household and my family could move out here with me. So um he was

concerned that after I had like even

after I had left my house that I had still acrewed some debt. Um and um

the Oh my gosh. Um

>> I did Yeah, I I And but I have So I'm

I'm doing the baby steps right now. I'm in baby step two. Um, and I have my

emergency fund saved and I'm paying down my my smallest debts right now.

>> Um, >> so that was that. Yeah. So, so I am

making progress. Um, but it I guess it

maybe it wasn't enough progress or I don't I don't really know the flavor now. Um, but it's sort of like my my

worst fear has always been like I because the situation with my family has been really bad for a long time financially, I have had a long-standing fear that I have no control over my money and sort of like brought it back up again. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. He like broke up with the the most vulnerable part of you in your fear. Yeah. >> Did your why is your why did your family move with you? What's the what's going on there? Um my so my um my sister moved

we my sister and I moved to the same um location to get she got married and then

um I moved out here for a job and my mom who is >> um somewhat retired um sold the family

house back where we were um in our hometown um to move out as well um

because she wanted to be close to her grandkids. >> Was any of that a red flag for him? Yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to place because it's interesting to talk to you, Rita, because I I'll be very honest with you. You're kind of on the end of you're kind you're the person in the relationship that we usually don't get the call from.

We usually get the call probably from the ex fiance who's like, "Hey, >> I'm engaged. I'm nervous with these money habits." You know what I mean? Like, should I continue? You know what I mean?

So, to get the person that got broken up with because of the money, we don't usually get we don't get that side. So, I'm trying to in my head because I want to be on your team, right? I'm like, I want to be able to to help you and us help navigate this.

And broke off a great thing too early. I I don't know, and I probably won't know in this call, but I'll just >> And you may never know. And that's the hard truth is you can replay this a thousand ways and it's not going to get you any closer to your future. And so, the you asked, "How do I heal?" Well, learn from what broke and rebuild trust in yourself and then create the habits and become the person that you want to be.

The person who changes your family tree and actually gets out of debt and doesn't use it anymore. And so this just might be one of those fork in the roads where you look back and go, man, that was a pivotal time in my life. >> So painful. Yeah.

>> And it's not a fun way to learn the lesson, but now you know and you can do better. And so I think a lot of this is your own healing journey of, you know, it's counseling in Jesus. That's what's going to heal you at this point on top of the good budgeting habits and getting out of debt and >> yeah and I think what's hard staying true to your plan >> is money can become such an identity marker in us and it shouldn't be you know your money your money mistakes your net worth like none of this is who you are as a person right it's a reflection of our behaviors and our habits and all of it but in our society today it's become such an identity piece so I want you to break that apart from you that the money mistakes that I've made even the habits I'm in that are not great it's not who I am Who I am is something so centered that cannot be shaken, right?

And then that out of that flows a healthy Rita which hopefully in return has healthy boundaries with money is able to say no, is able to sacrifice and get out of debt and all of that.

identity and money and all of it. It's so closely linked into who you are and I would work at kind of starting to pull that apart because it's not who you are.

your net worth, your money mistakes, none of that is your identity and who you are. >> I keep hearing John Deloney in my head saying, "You are worth being well. You are worth being loved. You're a person who can have a healthy relationship." And a lot of this is detaching from maybe unhealthy family baggage and going, "Hey, I need to move on with my life.

There's been a lot of codependency that has been toxic and it's time. I need to grow." And so, I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. She talks about the different money classrooms and how you grew up. I think it will be a part of your healing journey.

So hang on the line. That'll be our gift to you, Rita.

[music]

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Nancy is in [music] Witchah up next.

Nancy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Thank you. >> How can we help today?

>> Well, um I've kind of gotten myself into the situation here. Um I I like cars too

much and this summer, this past summer, I I bought a car. It was just a a uh an

emotional decision.

uh bad decision, brand new car. Um and

with it a high payment and um at the

same time um trying to pay down about

$20,000 worth of uh uh credit card debt

that I've been just kicking down the road for for years, years and years.

>> How old are you? >> Um I never um I'm almost ready to

retire. Uh >> well, maybe not anymore.

>> Yeah, not anymore. I I am a CHD. Okay.

>> Um I single or married?

>> Uh single. >> Okay. >> So tell us about this vehicle. People want to know. Spill the tea. >> I know. What kind of cars does Nancy like? She said, "I love cars." I'm like, "Nancy, what kind of cars?" >> Oh, it's a a Bronos Sport, a 25 Bronos Sport. I um just fell in love with how

it looked and everything and it was a

stupid decision. And now I am regretting the payment. >> What's the balance and what's the payment?

>> Um the balance I owe about uh a little

under 25 uh,000 on it. I'm paying 3.85 a month.

Uh >> did you put some serious money down?

>> That's not terrible payment wise.

>> It's not terrible. No. I I had a trade that was uh >> Oh, >> you had another nice car. >> Bronco Sport. >> Yes. I had another Bronco Sport that I should have stuck with, but I got frustrated with its tech and in a moment

of stupidity besides upgrade to get the

better tech which you know >> what could you sell it for? >> More literally now >> um I have been able to get as high as an

offer as 272 from Carvana.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So I can almost get my money back.

So, >> how much how much do you make a year? >> Question is >> um uh 75 grand gross.

>> Awesome. Okay. Sorry. What's your question?

>> Uh question is um I I recently found um

a Honda Element, which I really love

those cars, um with like 130,000 miles

on it, but they're super super super uh

dependable reliable.

>> Uhhuh. And I found that for about 11

around 11,000.

Um, and it would when everything's all

all said and done, um, I'd be my payment would go to 198 a

month instead of the 3.85.

Um, but you know, then I'd have an older car with no warranty because if I add a

warranty to it, >> Nancy, >> please don't do any of this. We're playing the wrong games. >> Yeah, you're you're back in the same game. >> You're back at you're you're still you're just moving debt to debt. Smaller debt, but you're moving debt to debt. Do you have any money saved, Nancy? Any money at all that you can get to? Any cash? >> No. No.

>> No. No cash. No. Everything I go everything all everything extra. Every month I just pour into the debt trying to get ahead and then an emergency comes

along. >> Okay. How much extra are you putting towards your debt? Like if you were to stay current on all the credit cards and the car payment, how much extra would you have a month?

>> Only like 200.

>> Okay. >> And so that's why it's a chronic debt situation because things life keeps happening >> and I go backwards on the on the credit card. >> Are you bringing home like 4,500 a month? What is your take-home pay?

>> Um um it's because I have some stuff going in like pre-tax stuff going into

going out into a well paying off another

loan. That's another story. But it's almost paid off. >> You have a 401k loan or something?

>> Uh it's a I don't remember what you call it. It's not 401k. Uh 457. Is that does

that sound? >> Yeah. You took a loan against your retirement plan, >> your deferred >> compos. It'll be paid off as of next month. >> Mhm. >> Which will free up uh 350 bucks for a month.

>> Okay. So, 500.

>> Okay. So, here's what I want. Here's what I would do, Nancy. If I woke up in your shoes, um I would Yep. When that

gets freed up, you'll have around $500 of margin. Okay. I would go >> say that. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that? >> Yeah. you would have around $500 of margin right after this is paid off.

That frees up 300. You said you have about 200.

>> 500. I would go and find any kind of

work you could do. Even if it's driving Uber and your new Bronco, I don't care.

And I want you to make an extra $1,000 a month. Okay? >> So the So what's going to happen in two months? In two months, you're going to have an extra $3,000. If you can sell this Bronco still at 27,000, you'll have

2,000. That means you have $5,000 cash that I want you to go buy a car

>> and no more car payments. And no more car payments. And then you're going to be driving. You're awesome. I just looked up cars. I I looked up $3,000 car cars in Witchah just now on my phone.

>> Lots of options. They really are there.

I mean, and one of them was like a 2006 Volvo. I mean, you know what I mean? Like, you got to do some inspection. Be smart about it.

But like, you can get a cheap car that will last you for 12 months. That's all we're looking for. >> This is not your forever car. No, this is a 12-month car.

And you tell yourself that, you say, "Nancy, this is my 12-month car." Cuz you're going to start then working to get out of debt. And then once you have your credit card debt paid off, >> um, then you're going to be able to have so much freedom and so much margin to save up and buy a nicer car that Nancy wants. But I want you out of car payments, Nancy. This game is not working for you.

>> We need a big why here. And you said you wanted to retire.

>> Uh, well, I have a pension. Um and um I

have about uh 50,000

is all in in that 457.

>> How much is your pension going to be?

>> Um it's going to be around4,300

a month. >> Okay. So about what you're making now.

>> Yes. >> So let's make this a goal. Let's become completely debtree with a fully funded emergency fund as we enter retirement.

>> That's your goal. And which means I am not gonna quit working until I have a lot of financial peace and security in my life. And that becomes your why.

>> It sounds like you you've lived a few lives.

>> And so now is the time to go, what is this next chapter of NY's life going to look like? Is it trading in for a different car with a slightly lower payment while I still struggle in my 60s? Or is it, >> man, I don't have the dream car, but I have the dream retirement because I'm not making payments broke every month.

Exactly. >> Yeah. And Nancy, you really do. I I want to encourage you that, you know, to spontaneously go and buy a new car cuz you got frustrated.

>> There is you have to acknowledge that in yourself, right? Like you didn't go on Amazon and buy a new pair of like $12 earrings cuz you got mad or you know what I mean? You're like, I just want to feel good. I'm going to like this.

This is a big it's a big deal. You bought a car. You know what I mean? And it's not to shame you.

>> I was really frustrated. You're very Nancy was pissed. So she went and got a new car. Yes.

So I want you to acknowledge when those things come up in us. This is this is a Dave this is a Dave Ramsey quote for you. I heard this growing up in my house and on the show all the time. >> But >> but that there's a level of maturity that delays gratification.

Okay.

>> so adults, >> yes, >> devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. And you're not a child.

You're not a child. No, >> you are a grown woman who is smart, who's hardwork. And I just want you to reframe some of these impulses that you're making. U cuz it's not just at the car lot. It's probably other places.

And really start to get disciplined in this area of your life, Nancy. Probably for the first time ever, you know, and it sounds crazy >> to do something big like this at 60 years old, but people do it every day.

>> People do it every day. So we if you hold on the line, Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you Every Dollar, which is our budgeting app. And I want you to to be engaged in it. I want you to create a monthly budget, Nancy.

I want you to dream and just do some just do some searching when you get off the phone with us. Just Google $5,000 cars in Witchah and just start to make peace with this this new future you have.

>> Yeah. Here here's the three words we need to take out of our vocabulary. I deserve it. I think you deserve financial peace. I think you deserve a great retirement, which means we need the delayed gratification to say no to the toys right now.

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If you've kicked debt to the curb, you deserve to celebrate on the Live Like No One Else cruise. You can hang out [music] with Dave Ramsey, all of us Ramsey personalities. March 14th through the 21st, 2027. We're going to the Western Caribbean, Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cosmemell. It's going to be incredible. We had a great time last time we did. >> So fun. This is so fun. >> It really exceeded my expectations.

>> Me, too. And when we posted about it, I had so many comments of like, I didn't know you guys were doing a cruise. Well, >> now you know. >> Now you know. >> And you got time to budget for it. And here's the thing, because we've done this before, we gave early access to those folks. And so they're coming.

>> It's over half sold out. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's doing really well. >> Cabins are limited. This thing will sell out. And right now, you can save up to 300 bucks. 300 bucks off when you book by February 7th. All you need right now is a deposit to get your cabin locked in. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramseolutions.com/events to book your cabin and learn more. All right, Bri is in Indianapolis up next.

Bri, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you >> doing? Great. How are you? I'm hanging in there. >> What's happening today?

>> Okay. Um, I've been I'm trying my best

not to get too anxious right now. Um, but I am currently going through a

divorce. [clears throat] >> I've been a stay-at-home mom for almost 11 years >> and I'm solely financially dependent on

my husband who is the sole provider. Um,

he I literally was just watching the video of Dave Ramsey talking about how

it is our money. Like my wife was a stay

home mom for how many years and it is our money. It is our house. It is our cars.

And I am pretty much in a emotionally

abusive and financially abusive relationship at the moment. and I'm worried about him

trying to financially cut me off.

Um, I mean, I already talked to lawyers.

I already have a petition going, but like I don't know if it's just the narcissistic part of him, the sociopathic part of him that he doesn't truly understand that we are one.

>> Well, and the state and the judge will will tell him that, >> right? But like I don't know if his lawyers are truly understanding that.

So, it's like he he current I'm stay at

home mom. I have three kids under nine.

Um I've worked little jobs here and there on the weekends, but nothing that was really substantial. Um I've worked for MLMs from home trying to make a little bit, but nothing has really been much. It's main mainly solely me taking care of the kids and he's the one who financially provides.

>> Um >> I just need to know what is the best way to legally like try to have him understand that like I I'm technically

entitled to Yes. child support, alimony,

401k, and pension.

>> Yes, >> I don't know any of the the totals of things he's willing. He's trying to like swindle and gaslight of pretty much saying, "Yes, I'm giving you the house.

Do you have child support? I I won't take the equity of the house, but don't touch my pension." And it's like, I

don't want to leave. I don't want to verbally agree to something that I don't have full calculations in front of me

before I agree to anything that's going to truly benefit me and what I'm legally entitled to in the end.

>> Well, the lawyers and the courts will will figure all that part out.

>> Okay. So right now it's it's how do you just keep yourself protected and safe right now in the interim until this all shakes out because as you know this could be months and months and months and drag out and back and forth. And so right now >> he's like and I'm not paying your legal fees anymore and he's pretty much trying to force me into getting a job instead

of staying at home with my our our three-year-old at the moment.

>> So take care of the household and the kids.

I don't I think it's all threats because he's just frustrated that >> is he paying currently anything right now in alimony or child support as you guys are going through the divorce proceedings? >> Not right now. No, currently we're still have a joint um >> okay >> joint checking account.

>> I don't even have access to that right now because it has to be unlocked through for the app wise. It has to be >> you can go to the bank if you're an owner on that account. You have access to it. I don't care what he did on the app.

>> Yeah. go down in person and get Yes. get what you need cuz if Yeah. If your name is on that account, you have as much right to it as as he does.

Yeah.

>> and he won't he won't Bri he won't save.

Yes. And if there's any what you said narcissism if there's any level of who he is and everything you've described he sounds like a horrible person. You're never going to convince him otherwise.

Okay. So I think there is I mean and again this is this is a bigger working through in your own than me just saying that out loud on a phone call here. But he's never going to understand. He never ever ever will give you the respect that you deserve. He's not giving you that.

He never has. It's what it sounds like. It's one of the reasons you're leaving him. >> Right. >> Um so what I would do >> of didn't want to go to therapy for the relationship, didn't want to go to counseling for drinking, didn't want to talk to. >> Yep. Yep. I know. So he he signed >> I'm putting my legal fees on a joint credit card.

I still have access to the debit and I'm still able to get groceries and stuff, but like he's literally limiting me saying only spend >> How is he paying for his legal fees?

>> He's paying it on a credit card as well, even though we have somewhat of money already in the council. >> Okay, so Bri, you need to sit down with your lawyer and if your lawyer sucks, you need a new one. But you guys need to you need to have a plan and you need to know your legal rights. Every state is different when it comes to divorce law, okay?

So I'm not we're not experts on that on on each state. You need to know what rights you have. And then you do have to understand, Bri, there will be a point where assets are divided. However they divide that courts, whatever you decide.

And there may be a time and it and it happens. Bri, this is the this is the heartbreak of when a life you had built >> is no longer there that you may have to get a job, Bri. You may have to sell he may give you the house and the equity and you may look at everything and say, "This is too stressful. I can't handle the property tax and the HOA fees." You may have to sell the home eventually and downsize to create financial stability for yourself.

Okay? So, there's going to be probably in your future some really really hard decisions that is not how you saw your life going, you know, 3 years ago, but it's going to but but what you're working towards is a life of peace relationally out of this marriage that's been abusive and creating something for yourself.

So I the custody will most likely be like a 9010. >> Okay. >> To you. >> Yeah.

>> Which means you're going to I'm pretty much >> which means you're going to have a big paycheck coming in every Yeah. You'll be fighting for that alimony and that child support then. Yes. So all of that should be reconciled and you need to feel good about that.

But you need to know legally where you stand for you to have some peace, right? Because I feel like the pieces right now, which I don't blame you. I'd be in complete chaos, too. The pieces are all over.

I'm hiding all of it because I don't I need to be strong for my kids. >> Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah.

I Yeah. So, I I would though I think facts here are going to help you have some peace to know what rights you have in this and and he doesn't get to I think the biggest fear you have is he's going to just leave in the middle of the night with nothing and and you're left with literally nothing. That's not going to happen from a legal aspect. the the courts will say >> and or just like the fact that I've >> I I I didn't go to college so I don't have a degree.

Yeah. And I have nothing for my name >> when it comes to 401k or pension or anything.

>> But it's like he doesn't understand that his money is my money.

>> There there's going to be no guilt here.

You are entitled to probably half or

more of the assets. And so there's no guilt there. You said, "Well, he provided for the house." Did you not provide for the house the last 11 years?

>> I think he doesn't see it that way.

>> It doesn't matter what he I don't care what he thinks. I'm just telling you, you need to release the baggage of, "Well, I don't deserve this." Cuz now it's taking a turn to where you're feeling guilty for things you do. You don't need to feel guilty about.

>> Okay? >> This is what narcissists do. They gaslight and make you think you were the problem the whole time and you're the one that made this all enough. I've given you everything you wanted. This is what they do on the way out. They have no other cards to play. So they just try to drag you down into the muck with them. >> Okay, >> that's all he's doing. So on top of all the lawyer stuff, you know, counseling and therapy is going to help as well.

>> And and I want you to paint a picture for like in the next 5 years once you have some facts like where is Bri going to be even in the next two years because again I don't know what's going to happen, Bri, but there may be a situation where you are a receptionist at a dental office. I'm making this up, [music] right? For for 4 day for 4 days a week and you're, you know, when and when your three-year-old starts kindergarten, you drop them off at school. [music] You may go to work and you may bring home a paycheck, but you are capable, Bri.

You're capable of doing something and earning money if it comes [music] down to that. Okay? So, just know that in yourself.

It is. And so, you're going to survive this. But getting some facts [music] on your side, I think, is going to bring you some peace right now in the midst of all this chaos. But we are so sorry.

[music] Call us back if you if you need more help.

[music]

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer. And they've been absolutely great. We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsay Show.

Christian Brothers keeps things simple, honest, and transparent. Every repair is backed by their nationwide nice difference warranty. 3 years or 36,000 mi, whichever helps you more.

>> Listen, Dave, I'm first to admit I'm not into cars like you are, but the thing about Christian Brothers is I feel just as confident going in there. They're not trying to upsell me. I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need. Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps, trust Christian Brothers. Go to cbac.com/ramsey

to find your local shop, schedule service, and get an exclusive Ramsey discount. 10% off your visit up to $250.

>> Yeah, that's cbacc.com/ramyc store for details.

Donald is in Toronto up next. Donald, what's going on?

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Great. What's your question today?

>> Hey, so uh just how to get comfortable with using my emergency fund when an emergency has happened as I recently got to baby step four.

>> Cool. Congrats. >> Nice. >> How much do you have in the emergency fund? Uh so I have 15 in there and

slight job uh not change recently but better security recently. So that may be a factor as we go into this.

>> Right. Okay. So let's talk about this emergency. Give us the most recent one where you went I just can't dip into that. >> I got hit by a bus yesterday and uh >> gracious Donald [laughter] stop.

Are you being for real right now?

>> I actually am. Yes. I'm not lying to you at all. I'm what? How are you?

>> I'm okay. Luckily, the incident was completely fine and uh that's why I'm much more focused on the finances at this point. Um because it's like

everyone's okay. Uh yeah, I got checked out. I'm all right. >> Oh my gosh, I got hit by a bus.

>> No one can ever say, "Wow, man. Feels like I got hit by a bus today." Donald's like, "Uh" >> Donald's like, "No, I really did. >> I raise you." Okay. >> Oh my gosh. Well, that would be a reason for the emergency fund. I think we can all agree on that. Okay.

>> So, just answer these three questions.

Is it urgent? Is it necessary? Is it unexpected? I think we can all agree getting hit by a bus is all three of those things. You with me? >> I think it's a little unexpected. I think check that off. Yes. >> You didn't plan for it. There was no maintenance you could have done to avoid it. >> Maybe look both ways, but no.

>> Now, is was there police involved? Like, are they going to cover your ER bills?

It was the city bus.

>> Uh, it was a city bus. Um, unfortunately

due to how old the vehicle is, like it's it's a beater. Um, because of it how the

insurance claim would work. >> Oh, your car got hit by a bus.

>> You were in a car. Donald, >> can you lead with that next time, bud?

>> We thought you I thought you were walking across the street. [laughter] >> That's why I was talking about the car.

>> Okay. >> Oh, Donald, you almost gave us a heart attack. >> No wonder. Okay. >> Okay. I'm glad we thought the same thing. George, >> you tell me. Hey, I got hit by a bus yesterday. I assume you were walking.

>> Okay. So, Donald, you were in a car.

Thank God. Okay. So, the car um is not

Wait. So, go back. Tell us about the car car situation.

>> So, car is old, but it's in obviously not workable shape anymore. It's done for. Okay. >> Um yes, I expected a car upgrade to come in the future. I got 4K aside for that, but I obviously now I need to kind of

pull the trigger on it much earlier than expected. >> Gotcha. >> Is insurance going to write you a check?

I can't really get anything out of the insurance because my uh my comprehension and collision wasn't on there. I had enough insurance to be legal. I didn't have the proper insurance to get much out of this because my car is so old. Uh it would basically they're just going to write it off and then I might get $2,000 out of it if I'm if I'm lucky.

>> But again, because I don't have collision, it'd be a lot of fighting with the city. And we all know that's never easy no matter your municipality.

>> Yeah. Sure. Sure. Okay. So, you're just saying just it's a wash. It was an old car. I have money saved. How do I use this emergency fund?

>> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. So, um, what kind of So, you

you you're obviously low maintenance when it comes to the type of car because you're you currently driving an older car, right? So, how much how much money do you think you need to have a car?

Maybe it's a little bit of an upgrade that'll last you longer, but like what price range feels right to you

>> for safe reliability purposes? Um, our markets out here, I would say between 8

and 10 is going to get me a car that's between 2015 and 2020 and somewhere

between the 60 to 100,000 milei range.

>> Okay. So, take the Yeah, I would take the 4K and then 5K of your emergency fund. Go get a 9,000. You know, >> that still leaves 10 in your emergency fund. And then you begin the process of replenishing the e emergency fund and that's how you feel better about using it. It's not a this thing is depleted forever. It's all right, now I got to rebuild it. That's not fun. But hey, at least it's an inconvenience instead of a crisis and you're going into debt on a credit card at 25% APR.

>> So that's the move.

>> Okay. >> And the truth is >> kind of like >> the the better you get at this stuff, the less emergencies you're going to have. Like when you're broke, you have everything is an emergency. And as you get to this place, baby step four, you buy a better car.

You have nicer stuff that you can maintain better and pay for, you know, repairs and all that. And so I think it's sort of in your head that you're going to have to dip into this emergency fund all the time. I can't tell you the last time I used my emergency fund because at some point you go, "Ah, we can probably just cash flow that out of next month's budget. It'll be fine." >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So use some of this for it though.

So hear us say that, please. Please.

Yes. To go get >> like use enough to make sure that it's reliable, you know. Don't don't go good and crazy. Obviously, >> you don't need a $25,000 car because yours got totaled.

So that's what most people do is they go to the dealership and say, "I need a brand new car because look what happened last time I had a beater car. I got hit and it got totaled." >> Yeah. And and that's what like my brother and others have already said to me about like possibly paid in the future, not now. And I'm like that just doesn't fit my lifestyle.

>> Totally. Yeah. So >> do you pay cash? >> Yeah. Take four or 5,000 out and then Yep. >> How much do you make a year?

>> Um 60.

>> Awesome. I would work on upgrading that $9,000 car in a year or two.

So, set a scing fund to go and put 500 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We were trying for $15,000 car and then this obviously made it that I couldn't I was planning to be able to do it by October of the end of this year, but now here we are where I kind of got to I guess finance myself as compared to finance with somebody else.

>> Exactly. You are the bank and it's 0% interest with no payments. That's a deal, my friend. So, thank you for the call. I'm glad you're okay. >> I'm glad that you were in a car. Next time you tell the story, make sure you lead with, "Hey, a bus hit my car." >> He probably thinks we're just crazy.

He's probably like, "Duh." >> I was just The mental image was just, it was like replaying over and over my mind of what happened to poor Donald. Okay.

Glad he's okay. We're going to get through this. Thanks for the call.

Crystal's in Boise up next. What's going on, Crystal?

>> Hi. Um, so as a family, we've been reading Total Money Makeover and we've been working to implement the principles and just started Baby Step 2. Um, but my

question today is regarding term life insurance. So, I've had a whole life policy with a term writer for a million-doll death benefit since like 2016. Has a monthly premium of uh $315 a

month. Um, and I called Xander, found out that I can get a 20-year term policy for a million dollars for $104 a month.

>> Awesome. Um, I'm 45, my spouse is 55,

our kids are 16 and 17. So, my question

is, do I do the 20-year term or should I do less with the kids being older?

>> It's a good question. You need life insurance until you no longer need life insurance. So, think about the kids are grown, house is paid off, retirement's funded, your spouse would be okay without your income. And so, if that's 15 years for you guys, saying, "Hey, the house is definitely going to be paid off. We're going to have a serious nest egg. The kids are grown and gone. They're not going to be relying on us. I would say 15 years sounds a lot closer.

>> Okay. What would be a serious nest egg?

>> I mean, I'm just saying if something were to happen, is your spouse going to be okay? >> Okay. >> The kids don't need to inherit $5 million to be okay. They're going to be just fine. It's if something happened, you lost your income, now we have this policy plus this retirement. Okay. They will be okay if they need to take some time off or not work.

>> Okay. So I I would go 15 based on what you've just told me. I don't have all the >> both Crystal, you and your husband.

>> Um, yes.

>> Okay. Yeah. Because if something, you know, realistically, if you're past that 15 and the house is paid off, there's no debt and you guys have, I don't know, three I'm just making up a number. 300,000 in retirement and you still

wanted to work, you know, you still had the ability to make an income if you needed to, right? So, um, that factors into it, too.

Okay, >> I'm proud of you. I know that hurts because you've paid into this whole life policy for what, 10 years now?

>> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry to whoever sold that to you. Who Who was it? Was it a family friend?

>> Yes, >> it always is. It's always that >> they are. They are though. Everyone we talk to like, well, my brother-in-law or my cousin or you know. Yeah.

>> And it's always a dude. Let's make that clear. Some dude out of college.

>> 99% >> went, "Oh, dude, I got this sick job. I sell insurance." The women do the MLMs.

The men do the >> We all have our toil in life. The guys go insurance. It's cool.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. Well, it's a good reminder to anyone listening out there. If anybody relies on your income, you need term life insurance. Not whole life, not permanent life insurance. Term. So that's for a specific amount of time. 15 to 20 years is good for most people.

Maybe 25 if you know you're really young or you got young kids. Cuz the goal is, hey, once this term expires, we are self-insured. meaning we don't need this policy anymore. We're going to be okay.

And you want to make sure that you get 10 to 12 times your annual income on that death benefit on that the face value of the policy. So you make 100 grand, you need a million to 1.2 in term

coverage so that you could invest that money and the growth of that could help create the income and replace it. That's all insurance is. It's a risk transfer to replace your income. Xander are the folks that we trust, the people I have mine through, my wife has hers through Xander. You can call them at [music] 800 3564282 or just jump on zener.com. Get

it done today.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel [music] joined by best-selling author and my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz.

We're taking your calls at88255225. [music]

Up next, we head to Charlotte who is in Columbia, South Carolina. Charlotte, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help today?

>> Um, my question is, well, my husband and

I are we have $100,000 of student loan

debt that we just started paying off and

my dad officers that he would help pay this debt off. However, in the last year, we've had to cut time.

>> Sorry, you're breaking up with us, Charlotte. Can you speak directly in your phone or try to get to a better spot? I heard you're 100,000 student loans, dad said he would help pay them off and you recently had to cut him off.

>> Yes, we did. We had to cut ties with him >> and so we are now >> like the relationship is over.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Got it. >> Correct. Yes. So, we are now just

looking into this debt

now of for our own to pay off. And my

question is, what tips would you have to pay this off quickly? I don't want this to be looming over our heads.

>> Yeah. >> For longer than it needs to.

>> We agree. >> Uh, what did you get your degrees in?

>> It My husband got a law degree. So, that

>> Oh, gotcha. Okay. Perfect. Is he practicing law right now?

>> Yes, he is. >> Okay. And how much is he making a year?

>> He is making a little over 100K.

>> Okay. And what are you making a year?

>> I'm just making a little over 20K. I'm working part-time. We just had our first child back in October.

>> Okay. A congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> Um Okay, great. So, um, yeah. I mean,

the the most efficient way to do this,

Charlotte, is um is if you have multiple

student loans, do you or is it all one loan? >> It's just one loan. >> Okay. Yeah. So, it's just going to be, you know, taking >> attacking the mountain, throwing as much as you can every month on top of the minimum payment, just throwing as much as you guys can. So, it's make as much as we can every month, spend as little as we can, and use that difference, that margin to knock out this debt fast.

>> Because if you guys make 120 a year, if you lived on 60,000 Charlotte, and you guys basically had no lifestyle, you're just like, "Listen, we are just going to just live on what we got um and you

threw 60 at it. I mean, in a year and a half, you guys will have this paid off." >> Okay. Okay. >> So, it's just you got to live like a broke law student and not like a lawyer.

And that might be a I don't know what your lifestyle is like, but that's going to be a big shift.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do you guys have margin every month in your budget?

>> We definitely could. We could have more.

Um >> Yeah. >> So, make it a goal. Let Well, could you this month with the next paychecks coming in throw $4,000 on top of the

minimum at the debt?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> You're done in less than two years. I mean, that's the math of it. There's no like life hack shortcut. Now, if you were doing the debt snowball and you had multiple debts, we'd say attack the little one first, minimums on the rest, and create some progress. This is a little bit harder cuz it's just you're it's like paying off a mortgage. You're just staring down this mountain going, "All right, I would celebrate the wins.

Every $10,000 you pay off, you guys have a little fun, whatever you decide to do." And that'll keep you motivated along the way. Maybe make it visual.

Maybe you have like, you know, rings and chains across the house and or on the fridge. Whatever you guys decide to do, making it visual, having a deep why.

Maybe this child is your deep why of I want this kid to grow up in a house that doesn't know debt, that has financial stability.

>> Yeah. And it probably is there's probably a painful element too, right?

That it came you guys are doing this because of a relationship that was fractured. So every you know what I mean? It's kind of like the sad reminder too um of having this around of like why we have to pay this off. So there is a part too of like I just want to add >> you don't want it to drag out. >> I just want it out of my life. You know, >> definitely. >> Is your husband on board with this?

>> Yes, he is. We're in the very beginning

stages of really talking about it, which I feel I feel behind because it's been

almost a year that we've had to cut ties with my dad. But it really does just kind of feel like the dust has now settled more with that and then with having our son. But so yeah, I we're

just in the beginning stages of like really coming up with a plan.

>> Tell me this, Charlotte. He wasn't Your dad wasn't paying your husband's debt for law school though, just yours, right?

>> He was going He never paid any debt

because when all this came out with my

dad, we had just like maybe for two

weeks been put on a payment plan for the

debt. >> Okay. However, >> yeah, but was was the expectation that he was going to pay your husband's law degree?

>> He had said he would.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So, it was the whole day cuz I was thinking is if he just promised your debt and yours is 10,000 of the 100,000.

You know, I was going to ask why you didn't address, but he but it was said out loud that it would even >> So, this wasn't on your radar and all of a sudden relationship's broken and now you've got 100,000 sitting in your lap to pay off >> on top of the grief. And so, this is a lot. Yeah, it is sad >> and it's going to be it's going to be tight, but you know, less than two years, the baby won't remember it. It'll be a memory for you guys.

Remember that time we worked our tails off for 2 years to get to a place of financial stability, and you will not regret the sacrifice you're making right now. I'll tell you that much. >> Yeah. Yeah.

high a highish amount of money in a CD

account. That's >> a two-year CD account. So, I don't think we can't touch it for like another year,

but how much is in there? Guess we're not >> um like a little over 75,000.

>> Fantastic. Well, I would also look at what the penalties are for taking it out before it matures cuz if you're going to pay more interest in student loans >> Mhm. >> than the penalty is, then it's worth cashing out.

>> Okay. >> And that gets you out out of debt so much faster.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> What was that money earmarked for?

We didn't we didn't really have any sort

of plan for it other than just to kind of keep it in there and then maybe once it was done divvied up more. We were

probably going to buy another house or like sell the house where now buy a little bit bigger house as our family grew. >> Um >> we that money actually was given to us

from the death of my grandfather. So it was kind of unexpected. So we really didn't have much of a plan and then it was like we got that my husband started paying the student loan debt and then everything happened with my dad. So we didn't >> I haven't thought about it that much.

>> Okay. >> Which got well the other part you have to grieve is hey we this was going to be like house upgrade money and now it's paying off debt money which is less exciting. And so >> I would do that in a heartbeat. % I would look into that tonight to see what the penalties are >> and then depending on how aggressive you guys want to move up in house still look at cutting back some lifestyle and and saving up some margin and say okay if we were to replenish this um you know you could do that in a year and a half still and get that money back but I would go ahead and yes I >> this new plan is we're out of debt 6 months by the summer we're debtree >> yes I would do that in a heartbeat and then you guys save your income and decide how quickly you want to save how slow but no one else is determining that for you.

Or you guys could say, "No, we're good." And for the next year, we're going to just enjoy our life and >> Yeah. And maybe you can quit the part-time job after you get the emergency fun. >> No one's making you do it where the student loan. You have to make [music] this payment.

>> Yeah. Life is going to be on your terms soon enough. And so far, life has just been happening to you and everything's being unexpected. And I hope soon you can start to get intentional and and happen to your life.

Charlotte, we're rooting for you.

>> [music]

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Scott is in Bowling Green up next.

[music] Scott, what's going on?

>> Hey George, Rachel, how are y'all today?

>> We're wonderful. How can we help you?

Hey, um I am completely debtree.

>> I have uh >> Yeah, you are the core.

>> Great job. >> Baby step seven paid off house.

>> Paid off house. Yes, sir.

>> Everything. Oh my gosh. Well done.

>> I could tell in his voice he had an ease and like a he was kind of flexing like >> I am debtree. >> How old are you?

>> I am 65 years old.

>> Wonderful. >> Good for you. >> Okay. What's your question today?

Um, I'm at that point. So, you know,

well, let me go back. I do have to replace some money back into my fully um

emergency fund, my fully funded emergency fund. >> Okay. >> Because I pulled that out to pay the house off about $12,000. So, >> nice. >> Anyways, a little over 12,000. But, uh, my fully um funded emergency fund is my

goal is 50,000 there. and I've got about

25 into it right now. So, I got to put

>> 25 more into it and I'm I'm completely out. So, >> couple things here. My questions are at

this point which I've already got an a traditional IRA that has about

214 215,000 in it and I've got two

mutual funds that was probably about 36,000 in that. Um I want to be able to

go in to put more money into mutual

funds. I think uh from you know the total money over there was something about a high cap, low cap, midcap and a

foreign cap or a foreign mutual fund.

>> Yep. >> And I want to learn more about that and then also put some I guess part of

that 50,000 into a high yield interest savings account. >> Yeah. Um, is that are these the smart moves that I need to make? And also, I want to look at maybe doing a Roth IRA

to kind of balance out the taxable versus the non-t taxable.

>> Yeah, I would be focused on those retirement accounts right now. You know, taking advantage of of those tax advantage accounts first. And so that would be the strategy here. And do you have a 401k through your employer?

>> No. No. It's uh something I've done for the past 15 years. Uh, >> you're self-employed in the days and >> uh, no I'm not. I work for a company but we don't have a 401k program.

>> Okay. No retirement program.

>> I have done that all on my own over the past 15 years. >> Good for you. >> Okay. So, your options would be then maxing out that IRA every year. What is your income? >> Yep.

>> Uh, [clears throat] my income is about 100 grand. >> Fantastic.

Okay. So, maxing out the IRA is a great start. That'll get you pretty far. And I would keep that emergency fund in a high yield savings account and you can open one up with our friends at Fairwind's Credit Union online on your phone within minutes and keep that parked there.

Well, you know, I think the rates are currently over 3% and so you're at least keeping up or beating inflation with that money instead of it sitting at 0% in your local bank savings account.

>> So, that's a piece of homework.

>> Fairwinds Credit Union. You can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

Okay. And they've got a bundle there with an online checking and the high yield savings and it's no fee on that.

And they're they've been an awesome partner because they have the same goal in mind. They want people to be like Scott, financially free with a paid off house.

>> Okay. >> So you've got that. So once you've funded the emergency fund, parking the high yield, maxing out the IRA, the next

move would be a non-retirement account if you've run out of retirement options.

And so like you said, those mutual funds and a taxable brokerage account would be the move. And we do say to diversify across four different types. So a mutual fund just is a giant basket of stocks.

And we're going to even go further by going into a growth and income fund which that would be kind of your your high cap. Then you've got the growth fund which is more the mid aggressive growth which is the lower and then the international fund to balance it out because what we've seen which especially 2000 to 2010 that period the US market took a dive and the international market kind of balanced it out. And so that's what you want to kind of derisk your portfolio.

>> That's kind of the foreign account, right, that you were asking about, Scott? Yeah. >> Do you work with a financial adviser or have you ever? >> I do.

I do. I've been working for with this guy for about 15 years. That's what kind of got me started on things and doing this. That's why I've been a matter of fact, I was in Sam's the other day and he was walking through Sam's and we got to talking and I told him where I was at and everything.

He's like, "Cool, let's work. Let's talk." You know? So >> awesome. Yeah.

You're in a different place now. >> Baby step seven, it's live and give like no one else. Build wealth.

You could in, you know, pay cash for real estate if you wanted to do that. The world is your oyster at this point, >> especially making 100 grand with no value. >> How much is your house worth, Scott?

>> Uh, it's about 325,000.

>> Okay. Amazing. Well done. Yeah, >> that's so great. >> What is your plan for retirement to sort of replace your income and cut your expenses when >> work? just work. I'm going to work until the good Lord says, "Hey, look, you can't work no more." Or or somebody um

and I'll just say, "This pisses me off." And I say, "No, >> there." [laughter] >> So far, that hasn't happened. That's good. But yeah, that's that's the Dave Ramsey strategy is why would I stop working? I like what I do. Which is great. >> Um and so maxing out those retirement accounts, if you work another 10 years, I mean, that nest egg will just continue to grow with compound growth. And so we are rooting for you to have an awesome retirement.

Yeah, that's that's one thing I know too is I mean I'm I'm [clears throat] 65 now. At 67 I can double dip. So I can go in and you know get my regular paycheck and then also get you know draw social security and that's just more money that I can stack. >> Yeah.

And the longer you delay it the more you'll get in that social security. So if you don't need it just, you know, kick it down the road and take it at 70 to to get the max amount. And so you've got a lot of options here. And you have catchup contributions which is great because of your age.

You can actually put more into those retirement accounts than the average person, the young bucks like me. Love it.

I love talking to Scott. That was awesome. >> John is in Cincinnati up next. John, how can we help?

>> Hey, George. How you doing? >> Doing great. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Great. Um, so my question is, uh, me and my wife were just hit with a a little under a $15,000 bill, um, for a a car that was

repoed that she had signed off on, um,

in in the previous relationship.

>> Oh, she was the co-signer and her and her ex didn't pay and got repoed and now it dinged her credit. >> And now the deficit is back to you at 15,000. [clears throat] >> Exactly. >> Gross. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, it's okay. Um the the dilemma is though uh we're nine nine weeks pregnant

um with our first baby. Um we have about

it's s super exciting. Um but we're unsure how to tackle this um you know

this deficit. >> Uh we don't know if we throw you know some emergency fund at it.

>> How much do you have in savings? >> Fight it. >> Uh about 10,000 in an emergency fund.

>> Okay great. And you guys have no other debt?

No, we do. So, we uh I owe 6,000 on my

truck. Um she has a car that we owe 20

on and then some student loans. So, we have a a significant amount of debt that we were paying on >> before the baby and then we kind of pivoted into saving, you know, trying to stack up some money for the baby. Okay.

>> So, we're a little unsure on what direction to go in right now.

>> Yeah. Well, the good news is you don't need to just keep saving for nine months until the baby's here. you don't need $50,000. I would figure out what your, you know, out-ofpocket max is going to be on your insurance, your deductibles, and make sure that you at least have that as your baseline. And then I would move on and hit play on the debt snowball.

>> Okay? >> And so smallest to largest balance, and when you get to that $15,000 bill, you'll get there.

>> Got it. >> And maybe they'll settle at that point.

I don't know. If you say, "Hey, I've got 10,000 lumpsum cash or 5,000. Will you

take that?" >> Got it.

But you've got how much in student loans?

>> Uh about 20. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> A little over a hundred. >> Oh, fantastic. >> Will that change at all after baby? Like will is that is her income part of that?

>> It is. Yeah. Uh she makes about 40.

She's a teacher. Um and I make about 70.

>> Okay. Great. >> Will she go back to work, do you think, or will she stay home?

>> We're unsure. Um >> we Yeah, we're we're trying to figure that out. That's all a little new to us.

>> Yeah, totally. No, that's great. Yeah, I would definitely keep a big emergency fund in place considering um baby's on the way. [music] So yeah, what George said, if you get to a comfortable spot that you feel good and you want to throw some extra cash to get that credit card paid off, or I'm okay if you guys pause it [music] and do stork mode is what we call it, where you kind of just stay current, but you just keep saving and saving and saving and saving.

And then once baby's here, mom is good, everyone's good, throw all you have at the debt, which means you'll probably knock out, [music] I would say, the truck, I'm sorry, the credit card and uh the $15,000 bill for sure and maybe part of that truck. So, [music] uh, either way, you guys are doing great.

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[music]

[music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz.

[music] And in studio this segment, we have a very special guest. You know him, you love him, Mr. Ken Coleman.

>> It's always good to be here, George. I got to get my ears in. I I wasn't quite ready. That's fine. Hey, take your time.

It's your show, Ken. >> We're here for you, Ken. >> Well, here's what we're doing. Here's why we thought Ken should join. We are about to do some 2026 financial predictions. >> I love a good prediction. >> And we're going to play this back at the end of 2026 and find out who was right cuz Rachel's very competitive.

>> That is a That is right. We are going to do that. >> We should. >> I think we should. >> Okay. >> You guys are in trouble cuz it's going to be two zero. Ken, >> you get >> Now, if we're wrong, we're like, you know, the weatherman. It's like it's fine. and you get to keep your job. So, there's no stakes here. We're just having fun. Don't hold us to this, but here's what we think will happen for your money and in the economy.

>> Okay. I'm going to go first. >> All right. >> Okay. I think mortgage rates will

continue to slowly go down.

>> Okay. >> That was a safe prediction. I like that.

>> We started at around 7% and now it's

sitting around 5.48% on a 15-year fix is

what we've pulled. >> That's actually incredible. >> That's pretty great. Like, people are waiting. I mean, that's a that's a pretty good. So, I think we're going to slowly throughout the year keep seeing that crude. I don't think we'll get back to 2 to 3%. But I'm going to see I'm

going to rest in the low fives, high fours. >> Yeah, the the Fed has been moving pretty slowly on this, Ken, with good reason.

They you know, you can't do it too fast.

That'll mess up the economy. And you can't do it too slow. And so, they're just incrementally >> not to mention doing their thing. political tension that has gotten fever pitch as in like WWE wrestling match

back and forth between President Trump and Jerome Pal. So Pal expected to step down. So new chairman expected in 2026.

What will that do?

>> I I actually I don't agree with Rachel on that one. Wow. You think they're going to go up? >> I think they're going to hold. Okay.

>> So you think it's going to be at 5.48% in December of 2026? That's what I'm holding you to. >> Can't wait for the >> I think what what anyone would call a hold, I think it's going to hold. >> All right. >> Okay. >> Moving on. Here's mine. Sports betting will continue sabotaging young men's lives. >> You guys are really going out on the end of it. >> Again, it's a safe prediction, but we've just been seeing more and more of this.

>> The stupidest >> and as as more states legalize sports betting, as more people jump onto these apps and the companies ramp up their marketing, >> they make so much money. >> That's right. 2025 Pew Research study found 36% of men under 30 had placed a sports bet within the past year. Yeah.

So, it's becoming normalized. It's just socialized gambling. It's, hey, I'm having fun with the buddies and we're kind of going to see who's going to win the parlay. That's right.

And this is a higher rate than any other age group. So, these young men under 30 are going to get hit >> who already broke. I can tell you as a father of a high schooler, >> I hear stories all the time of Chase's buddies. >> Oh my goodness.

>> Wow. >> And they're betting on crazy stuff like stuff you wouldn't think. It's not just a >> Well, it becomes some kind of fun game of like, is he going to be wearing blue or red today? What shoes is he going to be wearing?

It is so sad.

>> It's disheartening. So stupid.

>> Wow. Mama Rachel with a strong opinion.

It's the most unattractive thing. It's unattractive. >> I don't own a home. The Oh my god, the housing market.

You heard it here first. >> You can own a home, but I'm going to go and freaking sports bet cuz I'm not athletic enough to play the game. So, I'm going to have to >> Can't afford to take my girl out cuz I've lost a parlay last night. So, >> I like that.

>> No. >> All right. Don't. >> Very good.

You guys went really really safe. >> I think it's so crazy. >> I'm going to step out a little bit. This might not be popular prediction.

Let's talk about Airbnbs. All right. Became a very popular real estate venture. As you know, everybody thought this is my path to prosperity.

through a pretty complex shift. In other words, demand still remains pretty strong. But what we're seeing is is the cheaper Airbnbs, less cost, smaller,

smaller areas, you will see a continual decline, but your luxury listings will go up. >> Oh, and the people who have the money will still be spending, but other people are more price conscious. >> That's right. So, if you're in the Airbnb game, if you've got a luxury listing, I think you're probably in good shape.

The demand will remain strong, >> which is a small percentage. small percentage. But if you have overleveraged yourself, do not think that you're going to eventually rebound in 2026. In other words, if you can sell, I'd sell.

>> Well, people just go, "Well, it's easy money.

Everybody got in the game thinking, "Oh, I'm going to buy a place down at the beach." So, anyway, too saturated, too much supply. That's why. There you go. No, it's the same dude that sports bets that's also on TikTok and it's like I own like eight Airbnbs and I'm like you are so annoying. >> Rachel, you're right. Rachel is exhausted by you young men. >> By the way, Rachel's coming for the bros today. She's got the bros.

>> I feel like y'all need a little shake.

>> I agree. >> Cuz you're not cool. >> She probably hates creatine, too.

>> I take creatine. >> Oh, >> in my protein shakes when I work out.

Good for you. The bros and you can agree on one thing at least. [laughter] All right, here's the next one. I think the stock market will actually stay relatively consistent.

We've had a few good years and everyone now goes there's going to be a crash. It's all coming down and everyone's got their predictions. I think the US economy is strong. I think AI and tech will will carry us for the foreseeable future.

And if it when it it dips, everyone's going to assume it's a crash. It's going to be just a little low. I think we'll come back up pretty quickly and lower. >> So, you're not saying steady throughout the year.

You're saying it ends the year pretty much at a at a level. Yeah.

I think we're going to have a positive year. >> Wow. No camel crash.

>> No. Okay. Okay. >> Uh I think the trend of buy now pay later. So I'll hit I'll get mad at the girls who shop, okay? Cuz that's sometimes who uses this. Uh I think they're going to become worse and worse and worse for the consumer. Meaning I think there's going to be more fees. I think that you're going to be able to loan sack, you know, take multiple, keep moving. They are making so much money.

Stores are making so much money when people take the buy now pay later option. They end up spending so much more. So they're they see they see the money the the banks and the and the um

and the stores, the retailers, and they know I'm going to make so much. So they're going to continue to expand that. >> Can I affirm your prediction? Pun intended. I just saw a firm is rolling out a rent buy now pay later option. So

you can put your rent on buy now pay later. >> Well, that really frightens me. Jeez, you're happy. >> With the amount of money that you're putting on a short-term loan, that frightens me. So, I think you're right. >> Can I tell you, I want to tell the viewers and the listeners, I have never seen the lovely, sunny disposition of

Rachel Cruz so cloudy. I could see it across the desk. She's just sour.

>> And it's not because of her, it's this topic. She's got sports betting fine aling of her buttons. >> I love seeing disgusted Rachel needs more of that. Let's get Let's get you back on the horn. Let's talk about the job market. This is the big everybody's always thinking. What's going on with my job? It's not been great. We saw a slowdown in 2025. Here's my theme. You

know me, I got to go with a little phrase. >> You love a theme. >> I love a phrase. >> Is it a Is it a >> 2026 job market will be You ready? Low, higher, low, fire. In other words, you

won't see. Now she's laughing. >> Kelly says, "Oh, wow." >> You know what? Kelly doesn't appreciate that this is rooted in accuracy.

low higher means we're not going to see uh a hot job market. It's going to stay pretty stagnant. Uh I think you're going to be in the 4.5%. You may see a spike get near 5% depending on some situations.

We still don't know where all the tariff situation uh where all those tariffs how is it going to shake out?

So what I mean by low hire is I don't expect to see companies hiring a lot of people. I think it's going to be a wait and see for 2026. But here's the good news because companies are also in a wait and see. They're going to be reluctant to fire talent.

>> Okay? So, it's kind of a we're okay with who we got and we're going to stay in a holding pattern. So, that's what I mean by low hire, low fire. Now, a couple quick things. Growth sectors. I think there will be hot sectors regardless of low hire low fire and that is healthcare, skilled trades. Don't sleep on the trades. They're blowing up.

logistics and some AI adjacent roles.

>> Oh, [clears throat] >> so it's not replacing jobs, but they're connected to >> white collar jobs right now, specifically white collar tech, is getting killed because that's where we're seeing already how AI is beginning to kick people. >> How is it affect I mean, are you seeing numbers? >> Yes. You're not seeing a lot of a lot of young people that be in moving into the technology sector as what we would call white collar tech.

buy it, clean house, and go. We don't >> You know what I like to say about private equity? What's that? Private equity equals public misery.

>> This is why we bring Ken on, guys. He brings the heat. >> Ken is he he's all about the words. I appreciate it. >> I'll be here for 30 more seconds. >> Here's the truth. Nobody knows what's going to happen. So, just stay the course. >> I know I do. >> Okay. >> Take those predictions to the bank.

>> Y'all, we will come back December of I forgot how competitive you guys are.

>> I was going to put Ken on hold. That's my dream in life to have a hold button for Ken. Thank you for joining us, Ken.

We had a great time. Hope you appreciate our predictions. Control what you can control. It's all you can do. [music]

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> All right, guys. Listen, if you have some money goals this year, you want to get control, you're making good money, uh you got to download the Every Dollar app. It is the way people gain control with their money in a very tactical way.

And here's a a quote from someone who downloaded it. Love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband.

That's right. We've got a a new spouse feature there. Here's what they continued to say. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're all on the same page. And you can do this, too. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download the Every Dollar Budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Amanda is in

Toronto. What's going on, Amanda?

>> Hi. >> Hey. >> Um, this is my question. Um, how can my

mom and I budget our emergency fund and travel expenses given that my father's ICU expenses are climbing? I'd like to still have some left over for my dad's rehab since not everything is covered by our Canadian healthcare coverage.

>> I'm so sorry. He's still in the ICU.

Yes. Um, basically what happened was that earlier this month, my dad had a stopover flight in Soul, South Korea,

where he had a cardiac arrest and is now in the ICU.

>> My mom and I would like to fly over and bring him back to our hometown in Canada once his heart procedure is scheduled.

>> We have travel insurance, but we're not sure what would be covered since my dad's claim is still under review. M >> I've already paid $18,000 Canadian

and the translator said the total cost

of the hospital would would potentially exceed $47,000 Canadian.

>> Mhm. >> Um but of course that's just a baseline and it could go up from there. So I'm overwhelmed navigating all of this as an only child. >> Wow. >> Gosh. Amanda, how old are you?

>> I'm 25 years old.

>> Okay. Um, what is your parents financial

situation? Like where your dad and your mom, what they have built as your parents, where are they at financially?

>> Um, so my father um he um has been on a

disability for quite some time. So he's unemployed um when received disability payments from the government. My mom is the sole bread winner. I believe she earns about 65,000 Canadian per year.

>> Okay. Um, and they do have a mortgage

for the condo that we live in. Um, so

that's their um, financial situation at the moment. >> Okay. Do they have savings at all?

>> Yes. Um, I don't have access to my dad's

uh, bank account, but from what I know, my mom has um $71,000

in an emergency fund. >> Okay. >> $10,000 was borrowed from her home line of credit. >> Okay. and she borrowed um $10,000 from

her sister and 5K from my grandmother.

>> Why is she borrowing all this money when she has the money to just pay for it?

>> Um I just found out about this after the fact. Um so I wasn't looped in on it. I

think my mom is just um I think maybe panicking >> um given that the hospital keeps calling us every other day asking us to pay a

deposit. >> Yeah. how much is owed right now? What sort of gets you guys by right now? Cuz the other medical bills, you can get on a payment plan and pay that off over time, but what are they demanding right now?

>> Um, so they were demanding

um 17 million Korean one. So I believe that was um I'd say 16 to 7,000 16,000 or so

Canadian dollars. >> Okay. And is that it like um at this

point? >> Do you know how much longer he'll be over there before you guys can bring him to Canada?

>> No, we don't have that information.

>> Okay. >> The doctor said they want his inflammation to go down um before they start the procedure. So, he's just an observation at this moment.

>> Wow. Okay. >> Well, I would make sure to use your dad and mom's money before you're using your own. Is that the case? Are you expected to pay out of your own salary for this?

>> Um [snorts] what my mom and I discussed is that um

for my own travel expenses I would be paying for my own. >> Okay, that's fair.

>> Um that's what we have decided. Um >> so how much will the travel be?

>> Oh, so travel >> all in for this trip. travel, lodging, transportation, all of that.

>> About 5,000 um just for travel and lodging and >> Okay. Yeah. So, Amanda, I mean, if I were in your shoes, you know, we would never tell someone to like go into debt and all of it, but when there's a health crisis, our number one goal is for your

dad to be okay, right? And so, what do we have to do to create that? And then we can deal with the money stuff on the back end. Now, we don't want to be irresponsible or make bad decisions in the process. We want to have a clear mind about it. But um but yes, I mean I would be 100% spending five grand to go

with my mom to see my dad who's in a different country who had a horrible medical situation. Um get him as healthy as possible. Sounds like the surgery's going to be there. It's going to be there's going to be a lot. There's going to be a lot. And then getting him back to Canada. Like that those would be my my priorities. And I would ask and I

don't know how you know the communication with the hospital there.

Um, but a part of me would be hesitant to start paying something until we know and have some answers, right? Like there's some there's a part of me that I'd want to get there in person and to know how

their I don't even know how their healthcare works, right? >> Yeah. You got to figure out the insurance claim and all of that and make sure that everything's verified and you're not paying for things that didn't happen. So, there's a lot of pieces on the back end you can do.

And I would >> start writing checks, right, though? Yeah, I mean I would >> if they're needing a deposit to for whatever. That might be the one thing to cover today out of mom's savings. Leave her debt.

Don't allow her to go in any more debt, but just pause on her debt right now until all of this is squared away. We got dad home. We know next steps.

>> Do you have 5k for the trip saved up or are you going to save up quickly? Yes, I

have 5K uh for for the trip saved up.

>> Okay, good. Well, the key is that you

are not mixing finances together and

they have the money. So, you don't need to, you know, give money to your mom and

hey, this is a loan. I would just cover your trip like she said and let them handle the medical expenses out of their savings and then pay off whatever's whatever debt is left when you get back.

Do you have any debt personally?

No, I have no no debt.

>> Good. >> Okay. Yeah, Amanda, I mean, I I think George is exactly right that they're Again, a boundary sounds so harsh in a situation like this, but your parents have $71,000. You know what I mean? Like that needs to be taken. That that's the that's the pool at which you pull from.

And it sounds like your parents have had separate finances because you can't get Okay. So, so your mom I I mean is she

under the emotional awareness of that this is my husband and even though it's quote unquote the my savings that I'm going to be spending some of this on him, right? Does is will she do that?

>> She will.

Um I think she's a bit I guess panicky

about it, but she will. Um

>> Okay. Yeah. Cuz that's I mean that that's it, right? If your if your husband has a medical situation, you have $71,000. We're not going to go to my sister to ask for money at you. She has the money. And so that's I would not be spending your money right now, Amanda. Now, if all this gets drained and there's something horrible and you feel like as a daughter, you're like, I want to contribute and help. Like that is totally your prerogative. Um but I I

would not be paying money out of pocket for any of his medical expenses again right now because they have $71,000.

>> Yep. And then it's up to your mom to figure out, hey, what's going on with dad's financial situation? And we need to make sure that he's able to communicate all this. If he's incapacitated, she needs, you know, financial power of attorney.

And so to use his money >> to use his money and access it all if it is not tied to her name. And so there there's just a lot of other pieces to this. But I would just take it one day at a time. Let's get dad well.

The money pieces will solve themselves. We just don't need to go further into debt. We need to limit the damage financially and just take the trip, make sure he's good, get him back home and deal with the medical situation. But man, I'm so sorry.

>> That is so tough. And then being in a foreign country, different language, different healthare translator. I mean, that's difficult. >> That is that's a lot. That's a lot, Amanda. So, >> for a 25-year-old to be dealing with, >> I know.

>> Well, we're wishing the best for his health and [music] the financial piece we will figure out. And that's why we have an emergency fund that that turns this crisis into an inconvenience to drain it. But at least we're not in crippling debt coming out of this thing.

[music]

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz taking your calls at88255225.

Elizabeth joins us in Columbia, South Carolina. What's going on, Elizabeth?

>> Hey, how are y'all doing? We're doing great. What's going on with you today?

>> Well, my father, 87 years old, he's a

widow of seven years. He has been seeing

a um he's excuse me, he's a widowerower and he's been seeing a um widow um who's

88 years old. They live about an hour away from all of us here and he is

buying a house at 87 years old with a VA

loan and we're trying not to read into it. We want him to be happy. Um but I can this

is one of the worst financial decisions that he will be making. He's not married. He has no intention of being married. And um >> does where does he live now? What what's his home situation now?

>> Well, he doesn't live in our town. He's been living with her for um for about 6

months. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have a home.

>> He doesn't have a home. >> He does have a home. Yes, he has a home here. He has a home here, >> an hour away that he's not living in because he's living with girlfriend.

>> Okay. >> He refuses to move to his town.

>> Okay. >> Yes. Does is he going to sell his home

where you are and pay for this home?

>> Oh, I only have a few minutes for this call. I mean, we could get into I mean, >> I'm here some popcorn and listen up, Elizabeth. >> You It's you. Yeah. Very long story short, um well, my younger sister had

financial problems and she got recently foreclosed on and moved into his house and didn't tell anybody. And so the last

thing he's going to do is kick his daughter out into the street. So

>> so originally told him, "We have no

problem whatsoever if you sell your house, right? >> Use that money and buy something down there. We have no problem with that whatsoever." >> But now that's not going to be the case.

And he's still going through with it. And he didn't tell anybody [snorts] and learned about it the hard way. And he promised me face to face that he would tell me if he did anything financially like this because I'm I'm his executive.

I'm his power of attorney. I'm on his account. >> Yeah. >> And he's >> I think she's manipulating him.

>> Well, you think the girlfriend is >> I Why else would he be buying?

>> Well, [laughter] cuz he wants to be near Jar his girlfriend. Why he's Why you know what I mean? Who's manipulating is the sister living in the house that he needs to sell? Well, I >> now Now the girlfriend's not going to be on the house, right? The loan and and the >> deed. I I don't know. He won't really He

hasn't really talked about it cuz he hasn't really talked about it. I mean, I had to call him out on it when I heard about it and um he won't I don't know.

But it's hard. >> She doesn't have she doesn't have the money. She needs his money and he doesn't have >> How much money does he have? >> She's living with him. She's got a house. Well, she's renting and Yeah,

she's renting. >> Okay. So, she need She has no money.

She's broke. >> Um, yeah. >> At 88. Is she 88?

>> Yeah. Her husband, I think, financially his health wiped him out. I mean, I feel horrible for that, but >> Sure. How is she How is she health-wise at 88?

>> She's got her issues that again, my dad is now become it seems like a caretaker and >> Oh, shoot. So, you do see your dad, you're like, "Dad, you're 78. You could have another 10, 15 years." >> He's 80. You say 87. >> 87. >> Oh, he's 87. Oh, I wrote down 78. I'm sorry. >> Okay. So, they're Oh, man.

>> This is a wild one. Well, here's the deal. It sounds like you've been pretty like combative, accusatory, and he's sort of getting defensive, right?

>> Well, to a certain degree, but this isn't our relationship, and that's why it's so hard. >> Yeah. That it's it's heartbreaking that he did something that you guys promised.

you know, the integrity of the situation of, "Dad, you you're going to tell me and he didn't." That's hurtful. That's hard. >> Even though he's a grown man, obviously, >> but um have you encouraged him?

>> I'm sorry. >> Have you just encouraged him? Hey, here's here's the things that I'm personally worried about. This isn't about me. I'm just worried about you. Here's what's on my mind of, you know, keeping finances separate. What happens if the relationship goes south? you know, making sure that it's in only in his name and not her name and not, you know, co-mingled at this stage of life while they're not married.

>> Well, he hopefully he's at least doing that. I mean, that he shouldn't be doing this period. I mean, it's

okay. My concern Yes. My concern I we just want him to be happy. I mean, there's four children. He just We all just want him to be happy. But >> what what is his financial situation, Elizabeth? What's What does he have? What's his net worth? >> Okay. Well, he's got his house here and

if he had to sell it outright, I'd say he'd get 400 for it and he's got about

200 in an IRA. >> Okay. What does he owe on his current house? >> Nothing. >> Oh, he owns it outright.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And then how much do you know how much the house he's looking at when he's going to pull the VA loan?

>> 425. >> Oh gosh. >> And that's going to be nothing down.

>> Correct. Because the VA that's what he keeps saying, the VA doesn't need anything down. I'm like, "That's not the point." >> Well, how is he going to afford a $425,000 mortgage?

>> Um, I guess between, you know, sharing sharing expenses.

>> I mean, you told me she's broke and it doesn't sound like he's rolling >> apparently. Well, she's got enough apparently to live on for the next 5 years, and I haven't asked her exactly

what that means, but um so I mean, she's

got enough to be paying her rent. So, I believe that they are sharing some expenses, but my concern is what if my father passes away and she's living in

this house? >> Yeah, it's under his name.

>> I mean, you know, if she we goes back to

renting, right?

>> Well, I mean, what if what if I mean

what if let's just say a year after they move in, my father passes away. Then what? I mean, you know, I mean, I doubt we're going to be able to boot her out.

And if she fails [clears throat] to make the mortgage, then I'm sure he's putting up his current house. >> I mean, if they're not married at that point and the estate plan is clearly laid out, then you have options. And so, that's where I'm saying the best thing you can do right now is say, "Dad, I can't stop you from doing this." But I need you to slow down and think clearly and we need to put protections in place cuz I'm the executive. I'm going to have to deal with the fallout of all this.

Correct. >> And so, I just need to make sure we're updating wheels. We have the correct beneficiaries. We're looking at the whole estate plan so that we all have a clear plan of what's going to happen when inevitably one of them passes

>> cuz he's creating a nightmare for the girls that he loves. >> That and what are you going to do about the sister if he passes away in a year?

What's your sister going to do? Cuz she lives in >> Oh my jeez. >> She lives in the [clears throat] you know, now we have to evict her. >> It's the most of his whole estate is this $400,000 paidoff house. And then that's got to be split four ways. So she's not going to buy y'all out. So that's going to be that needs these are the conversations that need to happen before he passes away with the sister and him about and his girlfriend.

>> Well, >> I do feel like Yeah, I'm with you though, Elizabeth. Like, how do you kick out a you know, if this is in two years, a 90-year-old woman?

>> Yeah, exactly. I mean >> I mean you do I mean from >> I I would sit down with an estate attorney as a third party mediator because between you and dad it's going to get too contentious and just say hey dad we have an estate attorney coming by. He's going to look at all this and make sure that we've got our eyes dotted tees crossed before we make any financial decisions so that it doesn't create a nightmare for all of us down the line.

>> He's a grown man. >> Yeah. So you're going to that's >> you can't stop people from doing dumb things. But you can try to slow him down >> when an 87year-old has his mindset.

[music] I have a feeling.

>> Gosh, man. That's a wild time to fall in

love. But hey, >> you know what? >> Good for him. Again, you want him to be happy.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show, Rachel.

It's time for our question of the day, and it comes uh from Y Rei. Defaulted private student loans, they don't fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Why Refi helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can clean up the mess and move forward with a plan. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's yfy.com/ramsey.

May not be available in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Derek in Vermont. Excuse me. [clears throat] What's the point in marriage? Okay, here. [laughter] Here we go. >> Start strong. >> What's the point of marriage? My girlfriend and I are not religious and we think traditional marriage is an outdated religious ceremony. We don't like the idea of spending money on everything that surrounds a wedding. We thought about doing a marriage at city hall, but we already combined our finances, do our taxes together, and call each other husband and wife. So, what's the point of getting the official marriage certificate?

>> Okay. >> Well, Derek, >> a pointed question, but a fair one that, you know, a lot of there's there's a generation of people who are kind of going, what's the point in this? Like, why do we need to make it official? We're cohabitating already. We do our thing. It's been going well. Why move forward in this this outdated oldtimey thing where we have a ceremony, go to the courthouse and get a certificate?

>> What's your take, Rachel? >> Yeah. Well, I would say from like the non-emotional, non-spiritual side, there's a level of protection with getting legally married from a financial perspective, if you ever have kids in the future. I mean, there is something to be said that, you know, you have a system in place that helps protect both parties. And I do think kind of along those lines, George, again, I don't have stats on this, but I'm like, there is something to be said when you commit something, even legally,

there's a level of commitment there where Yeah. >> this that's like, okay, the wind blows a certain way, you're kind of not feeling it, and one's just out and then you're just stuck with what you got, you know?

>> [snorts] >> Um, so that's the more legal non-spiritual side. But I would say from a from a um gosh, I wish I had Deloney

on here because he's was >> he's been studying this stuff.

>> He was talking about the marriage advantage and there's something um emotional, psychological, like all of these elements. >> There's benefits in every area, >> financial, all of it. Yes. Um when you commit yourself to a partner.

So there's something about that. um >> the long-term trust and the shared sacrifice, stability for the kids, the financial benefits. >> I mean, there's a lot >> emotional safety. >> And if you're a person of faith, which you know, Rachel and I are, like marriage is a covenant, and we believe it was designed by God.

>> Totally. >> And if you don't do that, it's fine, but you're you're, you know, roommates with benefits at that point. And some people make that work. I'm not saying that you can't have a successful relationship.

I've just found at some point one of you wants to go to the next level and have that commitment and there becomes resentment and it doesn't work out.

We've seen that where we've been dating for nine years but he just doesn't see the point. I'm like yeah because you've been cohabitating for 9 years. So he's going why go further with this? I can just >> you know >> I can have all the benefits without having to have the full commitment. And so there there's a lot there but again I think the better question for you is why you scared of commitment Derek?

>> Come on Derek step it up.

>> There we go. You know, there's the re there's like there's a rebel in there that people are like, "Oh, I I'm going to do something totally different." This outdated >> Yeah. >> religious ceremony, you know.

>> So, yeah, I would go to city hall, make it official, be husband and wife, cuz you're not. >> It's not about the ceremony. No. No.

>> If you want to skip that, whatever.

Fine. >> Yeah. >> But it's about building a life together.

And I don't think you can fully do that when you're cohabitating. >> And I don't think from an emotional spirit. Yeah. I don't think that. Yeah.

All right, I agree. So, Derek, I don't know if we helped you, but >> we said what we said, Derek. >> That's how we feel. >> To each his own. All right, Dustin is in Indianapolis. Up next, Dustin, what's going on?

>> Hi, good afternoon, George and Rachel.

It's a pleasure to talk to you guys. I just started listening to you not too long ago. And, uh, long story short, I want to get much of your guys' advice as I can. Um, I'm about 40k in debt right

now. Um, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been listening to you guys' memos and I want to do something really different, you know, this year with my money. Um, be honest, I really I suck at budgets. Um, I just downloaded um, Every Dollar yesterday.

Just bought Total Money Makeover yesterday as well. >> Awesome. >> Good for you.

>> I've been very blessed with the opportunity job. Um, I'm expected to make about 120 to 140K a year um,

starting yeah, this month. And I just want to know how can I attack this, you know, rapidly right now. Guns, Blaz, and

Rambo. Um I found a side hustle I

started doing in dece um December. So I'm able to squeeze like an extra 2 to 3K as well a month.

>> Amazing.

>> Break down the debt.

>> Um so I have 40K. I have about 15 in the

car. I have about 25 in credit cards. Um

8,000 of it will be paid off the end of March and then the rest 17 will probably be paid off in about May, give or take.

>> Yeah, good for you.

>> I want to be able to get emergency fund as well. I hear people talk about that a lot. And I'm behind in my 401k. I only

have about 10 15k in that. And I want to know how can I max that to catch up from the years. >> How old are you? >> Behind. I'm 29 years old. turn 30 next month. >> Oh, amazing, Dustin.

>> You got you got one of the biggest blessings of all, which is time. And that's what you need to build wealth. And you will do that if you follow the principles that we teach. Cuz guess what? By the end of the year, if you follow this plan, you're out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund with your incredible income.

>> Yes, sir. I love the year. >> Can I ask Dustin, what are you doing for a living? Because I think this 120 is new, you said.

>> Yes. Um, I'm a truck driver. Um the past couple years the pay has been flunuating but um I've landed a great job luckily here. Okay. >> Um I travel for work. I'm going to be able to travel two three weeks at a time. Um >> okay. So it's pretty guaranteed the 120.

It's not like if you sell this you can you could make it. It's like it's a pretty locked in like okay I'm going to if I do the work I'm going to get it.

>> Amazing. Okay.

>> So Dustin you're incredible. Okay so George is exactly right. I think all of this can be taken care of. You want to be paying your debts off smallest to largest. So, the 17,000 that's going to be left in credit cards. Is that multiple credit cards or just one?

>> Just probably just one. >> Just one. Okay. So, what I would probably do, Dustin, is um pay minimum

payments on it and then I would actually probably pay off your car, your $15,000

car loan, and then go back to that 17. I mean, it's a $2,000 difference. It's not like the end of the world. >> Yeah. The way you're headed, it's going to be so aggressive. It really won't matter all that much. But the momentum you create by using the debt snowball to a tea and just smallest balance is next.

Smallest balances next freeing up the payment. If you do that and can you know are you bringing home like 9K a month you think with this new gig?

>> Uh give or take about gross about 10k

about 19k a month. >> So then if you think about it could you throw 5,000 at your debt every month total?

>> Yes sir. Okay possible.

>> That means you are done in like 7 months. >> Yeah. 5,500 bucks get you done in a little over seven months and it'll take you three or four months after that to get a fully funded emergency. >> Yeah. What's your expenses every month, Dustin?

>> Um, right now I'd say about 1,500. Um, I

was blessed to come to stay with some family because I'm a truck driver, so I real

um married kids anything single.

>> Single just me. >> Okay. Because a fully funded emergency fund for you could be more, we say three to six months of expenses. Yours could be on the three-month side. >> Yeah. >> Um because >> you're pretty nimble. Yeah. Not a lot of people to take care of. I mean, you can make it 10K and be done in two months.

And so, I'm telling you, man, by the end of the year, this thing's over. Just chunk as much as you can at the debt every month. Minimum payments on the rest, smallest one, attack it with a vengeance, and you'll be done in no time. >> Yep. And then once you get your emergency fund, then you can start looking at your retirement that you were asking about, and you're going to have plenty. Can you pull pull up a calculator, George, for us? >> Yeah. 15% of 140, that's 20K a year

you'd be investing. So, think about that. You're investing 1,600 bucks a month. >> And if you put that into an investment calculator, George is going to do it. [clears throat] >> 28, let's say by 29, you start investing, right? We'll give you a year.

>> And he's got 15,000 already in his 401k.

>> 15,000. We're going to contribute 1,600 bucks a month, 10% rate of return.

>> You're ready. Okay, Dustin, are you ready for this? >> Big reveal. If you do this, guess how much money? What What's the age? 20 29 to age 60. So you can retire at 60 if you want to. >> Okay. What how much do you think would be in your account, Dustin, at 60 if you did this. Just take a guess.

>> I say about 1.5.

>> You ready for this? >> For 4.3 million.

>> Triple it.

>> Okay. >> That's not like us making up numbers.

That's just if you follow what the stock market has done and you do this for 30 years, you never get a raise. This is the amount you make and you consistently invest. You will have multiple millions.

Well done, Dustin. Congratulations. Stay the track. Read Total Money Makeover. Do Every Dollar Budget. You're going to freaking kill it. We are cheering you on. [music]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's rammissysolutions.com/

[music]

[music] Well, tax season is upon us, Rachel.

I've got my appointment scheduled. I'm very excited. We're making it a date.

[music] My wife and I are going to go get a nice lunch afterwards to celebrate >> and do your taxes. >> Yeah. So, if you need help with this, we've got tons of resources, free checklists and guides that will help you file. Just go to ramseolutions.com/taxes

and you'll feel a whole lot better about tax season. Maybe you'll even get excited about it like I do.

>> You're so excited. >> I can't I can't wait to see what I owe.

Will I get a refund? >> Oh my gosh. I know. Do you usually will I get close to zero? >> I'd say we usually owe >> Yeah, I have owed the past couple years.

>> I go on the other end of the spectrum versus like wanting a refund. You want to hang on to your money versus the government hanging on to it for you. >> Put it in that fair winds, you know, high yield checking account, high yield savings account. I mean, and >> I like to write >> because here's the thing, the money doesn't come out of your account until April 15th.

>> That's right.

So, don't wait till the last minute. Go ahead and at least get your ducks in the in a row here. >> Ramseyolutions.comtaxes.

All right. Ashley is in Atlanta up next.

What's going on, Ashley? Hey, how are you guys? >> Great. What's going on with you?

>> Good. >> So, I bought a car and I don't struggle

paying the payment, but I mentally struggle with the payments.

>> Like, are you mad at yourself? Do you feel like it was a mistake?

>> Yes. Because I drove a paid off car. I I

was doing the total money makeover.

>> Um, you went back to the dark side after

Yes. So, >> what caused that, do you think? I'm curious.

Well, I I needed a new car or not a new one. I needed a car and I made the mistake of buying a new one that instead of just getting something >> um that I could pay cash for or even less expensive than what I went with.

>> So, the our car >> your heart went ahead of your bank account and went me wants it now.

[laughter] >> I'm like, "Oh, this is awesome. It's so nice and it's comfortable and it has so many options and >> Yeah. So beautiful. It's a brand new car, you know, >> right? >> You sit in it, smell it, see it, and you're like, "Wow, [laughter] >> it's enticing." >> And then now I get in it and smell it and won't it because my kids have already destroyed it. >> Yep. >> That's the problem with cars. >> What did you get? >> I got a um 23 Palestine Limited.

>> Okay. >> Nice. All right. So, what do you owe on it and what's the payment? Um, so

I owe 37,000

payments >> 805 a month.

>> Is that how much a palisade costs?

>> Yes. So, >> goodness gracious. It thinks very highly of itself. [laughter] >> It does. It really does. Um, so if I

keep going with the payment, it's actually going to be $41,000 after interest. >> Y >> Yes. So, I got on Carvana, put in the

information, and they offered me

um whatever it was like a $3,100 difference

that I would have to pay them.

>> Got it. So, they were offering like 34.

>> Yeah. So, my question is, do I take the $3,100 loss >> and just know I made a mistake three years ago or do I >> That's like basically four four months of car payments, >> you know? >> Right. >> The other option if you if it feels like too much to take the hit, you could always go private party. It's going to be a little more work because you have to deal with it and list it and all of that, but you'll probably get 37 or more for it.

>> Yes. >> Carvana needs to make money. So, they're going to give you less so that they can then jack it up to 38 and sell it to someone else. >> Do you have any money saved, Ashley?

>> I do. We have three months uh emergency

fund. >> How much is that for you guys?

>> Uh $20,000.

>> Okay, good. >> Yes. Get rid of this car.

>> If you want to do the work, do a private sale. Yeah, private. Yeah, do it private sale if you can. If you don't want to do the work, you want to take the hit, you can. And then take get girl $6,000 out

of your emergency fund and go buy a car.

>> Well, so we already have two other paid off cars like that now. So when I got

the car, we needed a seven passenger vehicle, but like our kids have grown up. Some of them have grown up and moved on. >> How many kids you have? Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. So we have five total.

>> Oh my gosh. So you can So you have a car you have a car sitting there

>> that you could drive. >> Great. Ashley, sell this car.

>> Your problems have been solved for you.

>> You've done it. You didn't even need to call us. You have Yeah, you don't have to work. >> It's all right there. >> Now, how much do you guys make as a household? >> Um >> Oh, you broke up on us. >> Oh, wait. Yeah. How much? >> Sorry. Around 140 a year.

>> Amazing. >> Oh, >> okay. And what's the total value of all the cars in your life right now? Everything with wheels and motors. >> Oh, they're I mean they're older. the value.

Um, I don't know, probably

$20,000 if we sold the other cars. Maybe

>> I was going to say if you love the car and just hate the payment, you could always aggressively pay off the car.

>> Yeah, you could. Yes, >> but that's that's another version of sacrifice. >> Yeah. Do you want to sacrifice lifestyle for a few months and throw money at this? >> Live like you're broke and pay it off in four months, five months.

Yeah, I've considered that too because we do I put I do this the 10% into our

401k and then I do $2,100 into our high

yield savings account. So like it's not

that we struggle to pay it. It's just like I don't know if I want to pay it anymore and and I didn't know if it was better to just get >> It's okay to not struggle to pay it and want to get rid of it. You there's a lot of people who take on the payment going, "Well, I can afford it. It's fine." and and then life happens and so you're kind of getting ahead of this >> going, "Hey, let's let's nip this in the bud while it's still fresh, >> right?" >> And eventually you can get your dream car, just save up and pay cash.

You got the savings muscle down >> that too.

>> you could drain the emergency fund and

sacrifice lifestyle for a few months, pay this off, build your emergency fund back up, and keep the car if you want. But if every time you get in that car, you're like, "Oh, I don't regret sitt If the regret, it's not worth that. But financially, you guys are in a place, you're not over. Yeah. You're in a place that you would be able to to keep it if you wanted it. You just got to pay it off, >> right? Okay. Just the draining the emergency fund. It kind of makes me panic.

>> Like it's like I need that just in case, you know, like Dave says, it's not if something happens, it's when something happens. So, I need that there when something happens to be able to like care for my family. >> Sure. There's just a false sense of security when you owe this lender 40 grand and you have 20 grand sitting on the other side.

>> Yeah. You're still a negative negative net worth in that sense. You know what I mean? If you're just looking at those two numbers.

So >> it's it's not really real cuz it's not really there. It's >> because you have debt. So >> on paper it's a net negative here. And so you know what to do.

Ashley, you got two options. You guys make enough that this car is not a huge part of your world and income, but there's sacrifice on either side. I got to get rid of this thing.

>> And when the kids trash it and you're paying $800 a month towards it, you're just like, >> I realize that as an adult now cuz I got little ones and dogs and they've just destroyed all of this beautiful furniture and the vehicles and you're just like stuff is going to get deteriorated. >> I know. I know. when we bought our minivan in 2020. Uh it was when right

when right after Charles Charles was born October of 19 we got the minivan and I said this is my 5-year car cuz I didn't really want it but I was like >> in your head you could justify it if it was temporary. >> Yes. Yes. Where I'm like I just you know I want the cool mom car later but like for now with littles we'll do the minivan. And George can I tell you I we are five we are six years into this minivan and I can't budge. I could not

imagine buying a new SUV right now or you know a nicer car. >> Yep. >> And with it with my kids. >> You've told me the stories. I mean Sharpie on the white seats. I'm like oh my goodness. The OCD kids. But

>> I mean and I'm definitely not the mom that's like no snacks. You know some moms do that. I'm like no eat your goldfish. Like we are going to you need to be happy back there until you get do whatever you need to do back there you know to be happy. >> But then that just creates I mean just nasty nasty nasty. So, I don't know if

that's a good reminder that minivan, that odyssey will be in our lives.

>> I also feel like the danger of buying a new car is that becomes your new baseline mentally of what you're willing to drive cuz going from a new car, that's a good point. >> So, I always here's what I've done. I drove like an ' 09 then to a 13 cuz I was like, if you jump too far, you're done. You're not going back to 2016.

>> That's a great point, George. >> You just feel like you're going back in time. You're like, I'm a pioneer woman here with my I don't even have CarPlay.

What world is this? And so there's a real danger to the lifestyle creation.

She sat in the new car and she's like, "Look at all this amazing stuff." Right?

Her baseline's high. >> I've got a heated steering wheel. How did our parents survive without the heated steering wheel? Got to put gloves on. Gh. >> What is this place? [music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of Lacroy. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every Dollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life. And it actually coaches you to stick with it.

Plus, the Every Dollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget.

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in the first 15 minutes. That's basically like giving yourself a raise and a much happier new year. So don't let future you down. Make them proud. Go download the Every Dollar Budget app and start for free right now.

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Our scripture of the day, Romans 12:9.

Don't just pretend to love others.

Really love them. Hate what is wrong.

Hold tightly to what is good. [music] Elon Musk said, "For quality of life, it is better to heir on the side of being an optimist and wrong rather than a pessimist and right." Did he say that? I

don't know. They just give us these quotes, guys. Who knows what's real anymore. >> And not and not on timing either in life. Let me just say that out loud.

>> Good. Good call, Rachel. All right. Mary is in Grand Rapids up next. What's going on, Mary?

>> Hello. How are you? >> Good. What's going on? Um, my question

is I know that um Dave is a long is a

proponent of long-term care insurance, >> but I wondered if you ever can get to the point where you're self-insured and you don't need it. >> Absolutely. >> Um, I'm I'm 63. I'm still working part-time. Um, my husband retired um

last June. He's 62. He doesn't want to take Social Security yet until he can max it out. >> Okay. >> And we have about 2.3 in our retirement.

Awesome. >> Um, so we called Xander, as Dave always

recommends, and we talked to a um, a

wonderful lady that spent a lot of time with us, and she gave us a quote for like a standard policy from one of the better companies that they work with, and it would cost us about 6,800 a year

for long-term care insurance. And that would be going up by about 15% every

seven years, um, the premiums. and it

would cover about 500,000 for both my husband and myself to dip into when um

when and if we need it. But the first three months would come out of our if we did go into like an assisted living or needed long-term care help, the first three months are out of pocket. So, I'm

thinking um by that time if we needed it probably the cost would be like 12 to 15,000 a month and the first 3 months are not paid for by the um insurance

plan. So, I was kind of shocked at that.

>> It's still going to cost you that's kind of it's like a co-ay there.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, you got 2.3 million and so the question is would you guys be okay if you need to dip in and pay $500,000?

>> Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I just think that 6 $6,800 a year seems steep

to me and then it's going to increase and I don't know. I just don't know if I feel comfortable paying that much.

>> But then again, the rates you will see anywhere for that and at your age. And so, it is expensive. There's no we don't hide there's no hiding that fact. But the truth is 70% of people turning 65 will need some from it. And you know the multi-year cost can reach six figures.

So that's the fear is that >> but also remember every seven years Mary your um your money doubles. So you guys

will have 5 million right in seven years in your investments. >> So you won't need it anymore. So it's not you're not going to pay this the rest of your life. Or maybe you you pay for it for a few years and then decide you know what >> that's what I'm thinking. >> We're at the point we don't need it but right now we're still on the fence >> cuz it really depends on your expenses in retirement. If you guys are living pretty frugally, 2.3 million will get you very far.

>> And so that's the question mark. How much do you guys plan to spend in retirement? And how long do you plan to work?

>> Well, I'm working part-time. I figure I'll work 65 so that um we can go on the

Medicare or whatever and not have to pay uh health insurance out of pocket.

>> Yep. >> Um because Cobra's pretty expensive as well. >> Oh yeah. >> Um >> and what about your husband?

He doesn't want he's he retired in June.

He's 62. Okay. He doesn't want to take social security until he can max out on it. So I think that >> Yeah. And you guys don't need it. You're not desperate for the cash right now either. Are you guys debtree?

>> Yes. >> And what's your household income?

>> Um so right now I'm just bringing in about 4,000 a month working part-time.

>> And that's plenty for you guys.

>> You're bringing 4,000 a month part-time. [clears throat] That's great. >> 4,000 a month. Um, I've been having to dip into the um, investments a little bit because we've had some kind of big chunks of money that we've had to pay out lately. Um, we took two trips and my daughter's gotten married in the summer, so we're giving her some money.

>> Yeah. I mean, you've been investing for a long time. It's okay to dip in now that you're in, you know, you're past 60, so there's no penalties or anything like that. So, have at it.

I would, you know, if you want to sit down with a a Smart Vster Pro to crunch the numbers and projections of where you'll be at and when Social Security will hit and how much your expenses will be, that might give you some confidence on not needing long-term care insurance. And I think based on what you've told me, I think you guys would be okay without covering it. But the truth is, 6,800 bucks a year uh out of your income is a lot considering you're only making, you know, four grand a month part-time. So, I understand your concern.

>> I think so, too. Yeah. And so it's okay to say we're going to just have to cover that and you just need to be make peace with that too.

>> Yeah. >> But you guys are not >> our financial people are just pushing us to um to get it. They just think that it's a real good idea.

Well, the risk transfer, you know, when you look at it, I'm going to pay six grand a year for the risk transfer of $500,000 that I don't have to pay out myself. >> Mhm. >> So, when you look at it that way, it's not a bad buy considering, you know, age, it gets more expensive as you go.

>> I mean, even if you did it for 10 years, that's 60 grand, right?

>> 70 grand for 500,000. So, in the long run, >> and you could dip into your retirement to pay it if you don't feel good paying it out of your income and you'll still be okay. You're not going to deplete the nest egg. And so I think you guys have have created a a healthy financial picture where you may not need it.

And if it makes you feel better to have it for a few years, get it. And if not, again, just make peace with the fact that this will be on you. Thanks for the call.

What's going on, Jared?

>> Hey, appreciate you taking the call.

>> Yeah, what's your question? So, I found myself in a um kind of a tug-of-war situation being offered a very generous

gift with stipulations from my mother

and my uh my wife doesn't want to take it. >> Nothing Nothing like a gift with stipulations >> and nothing like a mom and wife situation. What's What's going on?

>> Yeah. Uh so so my mom has offered um

later in the year to purchase me my dream vehicle. Um, and we are currently

new in baby step 2. We have our own debt that uh that money could be used to pay off. So, my wife is uh unhappy with the decision, but the gift can only come in the form of this one particular vehicle.

>> Why? I'm just curious what's is it like a family car or something or what?

>> No. No. So the the brief backstory, my

grandpa was um you know very good

wealthy businessman and and he offered this deal to my mom and uncle uh about a year before he passed away and he kept telling her I wish you I wish id done this sooner so I could watch you all enjoy you know having your dream call.

>> Oh yeah. >> So now she's retired and she has the funds to do it. Um so she started with me and my brothers. My brother was first and now it's my turn. >> Okay. Um, but that's what's >> Yeah, I don't understand why why why is your mom mad just cuz she'd rather have just the I mean your wife cuz she'd rather have the cash to pay off the debt.

>> Yeah, it's kind of a history of these kind of gifts. Um, so the the car would be a a brand new Ford Raptor. Um,

>> Wow. >> Are we talking like a hundred grand? What's she going to drop? >> 100%. A lot

>> in the area. Yeah. >> How much debt do you guys have, Jared?

How much debt do you'all have?

We have uh 86,000 in personal debt. We

just started um knocking this out this

year, beginning of January. And um I I

have a plan. I mean, our our plan is to have it done in 16 to 18 months.

>> Yeah. How much y'all make a year?

>> So, last year was my wife's first year back working after uh being a stay-at-home mom. >> Okay. >> And we grossed 220,000.

>> Amazing. Good for you. Incredible.

>> Okay, Jared, I'm going to be honest. I don't know. I'm I'm trying to really Now, if there's weirdness between your wife and your mom in general, and then this is just another annoying thing that your mom's doing in your wife's opinion.

I get that. Okay. So, that's one thing.

>> But if someone offered me a new car,

>> I mean, I think I'd take it.

>> Yeah. The the one thing I'm thinking, I think there needs to be a compromise here. >> No, I think there's more issue. I think it's more the issue of your mom of your mom and your wife's relationship. It's not the it's not the truth. >> There's a pattern of her stepping in and maybe crossing a boundary line into your marriage and finances that I think your wife is uncomfortable with.

>> Just just Yeah, in a way. Um my wife

did, you know, she this is our first time having money. Her first time having money. I grew up with my mom doing stuff like this. So, okay.

>> Uh this is her first time having money and her first time earning her own money. We've got our plans and goals and she's thinking, you know, mom could snap her fingers and pay our debt off, but that's not really >> Yeah. No, I that's Yeah, I'm not I'm kind of I'm kind of almost worried that we're going to [snorts] >> look in the mom and she doesn't get to control what the gift is. >> The thing to think about is can you afford the higher insurance, the maintenance while you guys are in this debt?

And so if you can go, hey mom, wait until we're debtree and then give us the car. I think that's a great compromise that puts this hour in the books.

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## 117. No Amount Of Debt Is Too Big For A Comeback | July 3, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En4FFhHU-Dk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:14:17 |

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[Music] [Applause] This is the Ramsay Show. America, thrilled to have you with us. This is where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. The phone number to jump in isle8255225.8825 [Music] 88255225 is the phone number alongside the incomparable, the fabulous Jade Warshaw.

I am Ken Coleman and we're here to coach you up today. So, we got those money questions. We got some work related questions. Hey, I need some more income.

I like helping people make mo money. Mo

money. Mo money. And by the way, if you're at the Ramsay show and we help you make mo money, it doesn't come with mo problems. It better not. Not here.

Yeah, we have the good kind of mo money.

That's right. So, let's get right to it.

Josh is going to start us off in Augusta, Maine. Josh, how can we help

today?

Um, so I've got a a bit of a strange

problem here. Perfect. Jade loves strange problems. Weird problems.

Perfect. It might not sound so strange once I explain it. Um, I'm uh I'm 25

years old. I uh I own my own home. I

built a construction company. I make uh

about 130,000 a year. Um

and I've got a real proclivity for

building my income, building my business, building my personal wealth over time. Great. And one of the things

I'm really struggling with and I'm looking for a non-biased opinion because you know how friends are.

They're great, but you know, you can only get so much. Um, I'm looking for

any sort of advice on how to select a a

partner who's not remotely interested in

my position in life. When you say because we have a lot of Are you talking about business partner or romantic partner? Romantic partner. Got you. Your position in life? I mean, just at at at

25, I'm doing fairly well. Tell us what that means. What's your net worth?

Net worth like are you saying if I my business net worth or if I were to liquidate all you don't have that much my friend but you can't answer that question. I listen I appreciate where you're at young man.

You said you said you're 25 and you have a proclivity. Great word by the way.

Yeah. Wonderful vocabulary. I'm I'm a big fan of proclivity. Uh just used it twice there because I like the way it sounds.

uh to make a lot of money and all this kind of stuff. No, we don't know that. You're 25. Um I appreciate your confidence, but if the question is, how do I make sure I find a girlfriend who's not into me for my position in life?

I go, I don't know that I want to find a woman who's not interested in my position because that position in life, the way I'm hearing that is um you got to provide.

Jay, come on. Okay, Ken, you're right.

And so, I mean, yeah, you're right.

You're not in a place, my friend, where you're worried about gold diggers. Unless you're hanging out in the trailer park. Are you dating women that are in poverty situations?

I try not to, but they uh they pop up.

Well, okay. So, listen. This is Listen, don't listen. If a if you are dating I got to be very careful how I say this, but I'm going to answer the question. I got you here to correct me, but

maybe I know how to say it. No, let me say it. If I'm trying to I got to I'm I'm I'm channeling Stacy right now. Make sure my wife is right beside me and I'm thinking what would Stacy want me to say? Okay, cuz she's a good woman. If a

woman who is in poverty pops up into your dating life, I don't have a problem

with that. People deserve dignity and

there's lots of great women and and lovely women and lovely men who come from poverty. So, I'm not saying cancel it out. However, if a person from poverty pops up in your dating life as you begin to date them, you should have some discernment there to go, am I a

ticket out? Yeah. Or and so you just

have to have some extra judgment and discernment there. I wouldn't cancel them out, but at the same time, um I I I

wouldn't necessarily be, you know, hanging out in those areas either. So, I'm I'm trying to walk the fence there.

I just think this is a problem he doesn't need to be worried about. I don't think it is a problem. I think it goes both ways. The same way you are, all that stuff matters.

To your point, your station in life, your work ethic, what you're accomplishing, that's part of the resume. Yeah. You know, the the the personal resume. And so, the same way that you have built a personal resume that people will learn about as they get to meet you, you will learn about their personal resume as you meet them and learn about them.

and you get to decide who gets the position based off of their personal resume. And so there's nothing wrong with that. You opened up the call talking about um this was a strange or weird problem. And I don't think it's strange at all.

I think it's just part of everyday life when you meet somebody and you get to decide, okay, is this person going to be somebody that I'm going to be friends with or is this person going to be somebody that I date long term? Um have you had a lady, you said that this has popped up a few times.

Yes, it's happened to me more than once.

How do you How'd you know? Tell us. Be very specific. How'd you know? When did you know that she was only after you for your money?

Um, it happened a couple of months in

about three months in. Um, I noticed at

first she was very big on balance.

Um, as far as our personal time and psychological investments, you know, we're able to talk and work things and figure stuff out between us as people.

Okay. But as time goes on, it turns more

into what kind of life you can provide

for me and my future children. and and

there's no reciprocation

besides physical which is to me is you know it's it's got a value but I'm not sure the greatest value in the world I'm not going to lie I'm not sure I understand and I and I want to understand cuz I agree you're not being specific enough there's part of it that I think it is part of the conversation maybe maybe and I don't know you were there I was not there maybe she's saying hey here's what I'm looking for in life um I these These are what I consider

consider gender roles. I would love to be in a relationship where maybe the guy works, maybe I stay at home with the kids. She could just be sharing that that's something that she's looking for.

Am I Did I miss it or I think she's right. Josh, did she say I want you to buy me this and buy me that? And I mean, was it very obvious or was this just a a young lady talking about what life might look like?

In separate instances, it's been both.

Um, well, you're worried about stuff you shouldn't be worried about on the Let me Let me put this way, Jade, when you and Sam got serious. You don't want to ask

me this question? Yes, I do. What were you thinking? Like, what were you what were you wondering about Sam? My exact words were, "You got to come correct." Those were my exact words. Meaning, I I have a high standard of work ethic and what we both do. Did you ask him about his professional future and what he thought he was going to do with his life? I think I could see it. Okay. But but my point is you were interested in it. I was interested. I'm like listen I'm a go-getter. You're a go-getter.

Like we everything we do we do 100%.

Like that was the standard. It's like if you if you're going to be around me, you got to come correct because I'm an intense person. And so that was that on that. All right. So So all right. I'm putting Josh on hold here. I I said what

I said. What are you What's your dating?

I think he needs to be in better pools.

He probably needs to be in better pools.

I also think that I and I don't say this

to be there's no salt or shade on this.

I do think that he's viewing himself in a light that's a little bit puffy. Oh,

100%. And so I think that if he just kind of chills a little bit everybody's not after him. You're doing well, but you've not like you don't have a proclivity to build wealth yet. You're 25. Yeah.

Can I just say that? Yes. I mean, come on, man. So, you're doing well, but relax. Yeah. Relax. Use your discernment and get a good group of friends who can discern on the ladies for you. That always helps. This is the Ramsay Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw helping you through this hour. 888255225LE88255225.

Michelle is joining us now in Jacksonville, Florida. Michelle, how can we help? Um, well, I have an adult son who's in a situation where he has a house with his girlfriend and they have a good interest rate and a really good payment and they broke up and so she wants him to refinance the house in his name and he has bad credit. I put 40,000 down on the house for them and he wants me to either help him to get the house by co-signing for it or for me just to buy it outright and then he rents from me.

But I've been helping him his whole life and he's like 35 and I just don't know.

and I don't know when to say I'm I guess

he has a history of mental illness and of substance abuse. So I'm kind of you're scared. He feeling like I should Yes. I'm scared.

He finally got a good job. Really good job. And he but he can't manage his money. Yeah.

Well, don't buy this house for him. Do not do not put yourself in this situation. But I also I understand you're scared. But I think this is the moment where he's looking to you for direction anyway.

you're not doing it and what his real options are. And the two of these uh the these two young people are on the well, they're not even that young for heaven's sakes. Uh they're on the uh the uh the

home. Both of their names are on the home. Both of their names are on the deed, but only his girlfriend's name is on the loan. So, she's suing him to make force him to refinance the house or move out and he can't he doesn't have the credit to refinance it. Well, then it's a really clear decision. He moves out.

Yeah. He moves out. He said, "Yeah, I'm just so scared this is his only chance in life to own a house. It might be chance." No, no, no, no, no. Of course, it's not. What What is the evidence that that that this is the only time he could ever own a home?

Well, he he he makes about 60,000 a year

and they each pay half of the mortgage payment. So, they each pay 750. And he says he can't afford child support. They have a child together. He can't afford a mortgage payment. He can't afford a new car. His car is about to die on the side of the road. He wants me to cosign for a car, too. Credit card is max. No money in savings. But I don't want him to be homeless and on the side of the road with no car. And like I just have fears

and my husband dies and he's not here to like delay my fears. Well, there's so many other options though. You're choosing options that put burden on you

and you called because quite frankly you're exhausted at the idea of doing this. The very idea of doing this is exhausting and it's probably equal parts scary. And the only reason you're even considering this and not saying hard pass immediately is because you're worried about your boy. He's had a lot of struggles and you feel like But I got to tell you, I think this is a blessing in disguise. He's got a new job, a good

paying job. Sounds like there might be some growth opportunity. They break up.

Yeah. He needs to get out of this house because it's the only shot he's got to be able to afford the child support because he doesn't have any shot on that. The judge is going to decide that.

But he says that rent is higher than his mortgage payment. And not if he's not if he's sharing No, not if he's renting with one or two other guys that are single. And believe me, there's plenty of those in Jacksonville, Florida. This is where you can mama him in the sense of showing him adult options and saying,

"One of the options that you don't have is me." So, here are the other options.

Yeah. He's even down to saying he can't afford to move the stuff out of this house or or a rental like a storage unit. No, I wish he was on the phone cuz this this guy needs a he needs a good sip of grown-up juice. Did you say that you put the 40,000 down for this house that the girlfriend basically has the right of ownership to? Well, they each

have a 50/50 ownership share. And he was living at my house in the basement, paying no rent, and he had trashed my basement because he was on substances at that time. So, I honestly just wanted him out. And for my peace of mind, I put down I put down 40,000. Yeah. And it was

in 2022.

Then you're not getting that money back. affordable payment. No. And that's what he held that over my head and said, "I hate to see you lose your 40,000. Let's refinance this together." Now he's pissing me off. I felt a little bad for him, but but now this is a kid who's manipulating you. And you know why he's doing it? No. Cuz it works. Yeah, it

always has worked. I operate on guilt a lot. Today's the day. Yeah.

35year-old boy needs to understand it's time to be a 35-year-old man. And the best way he's going to do that is you have to look at him and go, "And by the way, I'd be okay being really raw and sharing your emotion." Share with him why you've done this in the past because of guilt. And now you've got to own this and go, "I can't do it anymore. I can't.

It's not good for me and it's not good for you. And I know deep down you don't want me to hurt me. Uh I don't know, Jade.

don't have anything but tough love here.

What do you I have nothing but tough love. I'm holding my tongue. My son is young. Um and and you're further along in life than I am. And so there's part of me that just wants to wall up this dude, but I also understand that there's, you know, like there's motherly love here. And so I I get that. I can

understand that there's this pull that you probably have to want to get involved, but I also feel like you can't like you got to just let this guy do what he's going to do and all you can do is pray and and you know, you know what

he needs. Michelle, I'm I'm going to tell you the one thing I think you can and should do in this situation. We've already told you what not to do. Mhm.

Uhhuh. I think he needs belief from mama, not help.

That is probably something I've never really offered that's true because I'm always operating on fear and guilt. And by the way, and by the way, you have and listen to me, Michelle. I say this I say this with a father's heart.

And I say this from my own experience.

He needs belief. M no more help. Yeah.

You need to sit down with him and tell him what he should do and show him that he can do it and then you need to walk away. Okay. And you need to be Thanks for taking my call. You bet. I think you need to be his number one cheerleader. I love that, Ken. Oh, that's so good. It's so good. It's tough. I You know, it's so

hard because we want to help our kids. My goodness. I mean, I It's just so hard. I get it. I truly get it. Yeah.

But at this point, I mean, and that's the rub, right? He's 35. He's not a boy.

I honestly think when it comes to this house, I think they just need to sell it. I was gonna get whatever the profit is, give it back to Mama. She's the one that put the money down to begin with. I was going to ask you, but see, you got the girlfriend involved and her name's on it, so she gets all the dough. She's on it. Yeah. I They need to get a lawyer

involved. That This is what happened.

She's broke. This is what Yeah, but mama does. mom is already, if she wants her money back, if she cares anything, she might not care. She might be like, "I wash my hands of this situation. I'm out." Um, but if she's like, "Man, I'd love to get my 40,000 back. I'd love to, you know, talk to talk to somebody to see how how this happens." Um,

I just don't want her racking up 10 grand in legal fees. And that's that doesn't take long. But I I like what you're saying, but I I think this is the get out of jail free card for this guy.

I wish we had him on the phone and say, "You got I know you guys broke up and that sucks. I know you got a kid, but the girlfriend's going to want his name off the deed. I'm not right. I'm not exactly sure what the process for that.

The best process for a chance for him to start over. Yeah. Meaning he's already got the breakup. He's got a good job.

Yeah. But I don't buy this rent is so expensive. He's manipulating there. He's manipulate. He's got child support coming staring him in the face. Jay, he's got a lot. He needs to make more than 60,000 and he's just got to get his

life together. Yeah. He's going to grow. My guy's got he's got he's got a lot.

Jade, I'm going to give it to you. We got about a minute and a half. I think this is a great time for new listeners and viewers that come in all the time. I want you to tell them why this call is exhibit A on why we shouldn't buy a house with somebody we're not married to.

Go ahead. Because there's no clear rights. Like like I said with this, it's like, okay, both their names on the deed, one name's on the title. Mom put the money down.

Like there's such a tangled web here and it's going to take a lot to untangle.

There's no clear uh division of of

assets. And so that this is just what is

known as a hot steaming pile, Ken.

That's what this is. And so it's it's not Don't play house. Don't play I haven't heard that in a long time. That's what this is.

I know. But that's how I know your dad's a preacher. Oh, 100%. That's true.

It's true. I can't get it. You can take the uh preachers's kid out of the church, but you can take the church out of the preachers's kid, right? But you know, that's what happened here.

We love each other. Let's go in and do this house. And now look at it. You know what?

They would benefit from some counseling, too. They really would. The two of them, mom and son together, mom on his own on her own. I just saw flashes of a reality show where you're coming in and telling these two, "Get your all stuff fixed and just love each other and get married and not get this nonsense over with." I'm not a counselor, but I can send them to to Better Help and they can they can help him out.

I think you could be a matchmaker. You think I could sit down and be quiet? Let Jake fix this. Act like you got some home training.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in. Let's get back to the phones. Chris is there in Columbus, Ohio. Chris, how can we help today? Hi there. How you guys doing today? We're doing great. What's What's going on?

Um well, straight to the point, I got into some credit card debt. Um how much

I'm about 50,000 50,000.

What happened? Yeah, that's a lot. Um what took place? It is. Well, so all

right, about 2021, I bought a house. Um

went into it having a little bit of credit card debt. Um, when what I didn't

realize is when buying a house, there's stuff that need help. You know, I had

it's, you know, I went in like, you know, maybe $8,000 in credit card debt.

Mhm. Um, and had it sitting on a 0%

balance transfer. You know, I wasn't that worried and it was a great I I still think the house was a good investment. We got in sub 3% on the interest rate and values gone up by like 25%.

But but the the cost of ownership, the

cost of owning the house, uh a lot of times that just fell to the credit cards. Yeah. Was that because So the

question I have is that because you didn't have any margin in your paycheck when it came to everything else and so uh any kind of house repairs or all that was just a squeeze on you or was it because you had a new house and you're all excited and you guys wanted to start doing some projects and you didn't have the cash for it, so you thought, well, we'll just put it on the card. Was it that? Some of both? What What are we talking about?

Little little bit of both. I mean, so you know, they I got I got young boys. They are When we moved in here, they were eight and six.

man, that's really the perfect time to build a treehouse in the backyard. So, you know, guess where that went? That went to the credit card. Okay. Um, you know, we got we got a half bath downstairs. And I'm pretty handy. I can do a lot of stuff myself.

So, well, what percentage of your real easy to what do you take home every month? What's your take-home pay between you and your wife?

So, I'm making about 100 a year. And

that's just because of a new position that I've taken this year. Last year, and when I bought the house, I was making about 85. And what's your take-home pay? What do you see on your check every month?

Uh, let's see. I make 13 and change

every week.

every week? 1300? Yes. Okay. And then

what percent how much is your mortgage?

2400 with taxes. Okay. So 5200 net,

right? Yeah. Wow. So that that's that's

a little bit. Tell me again. I'm sorry.

Ken said something. Tell me again the what your mortgage is every month.

2400. 2400. Okay. I think that's where

some of the problem is because you're getting really close to that being half of your take-home pay.

Yeah, it very much is. And so I that's

that's where we get into this cuz I mean think about it like this and I don't think people take enough time to think about these ratios. We say all right your your mortgage should be no more than 25% of your take-home. So there's 25 there. If you're a giving person, you're probably doing around 10% there.

And then when it comes time to do your investing, you're doing 15% there.

That's 50% right there. So if you mess

around and your mortgage creeps up 25

more points, you're at 75% of your income and you haven't even done anything yet.

So yeah, no wonder you would be going to credit cards, right? Cuz you haven't even bought groceries. You hadn't, you know, taken a vacation. You've done nothing. So I think that what's really

really squeezing you is the mortgage.

That's probably thing one. And then if you're not on a really tight budget, then this money just disappears. Are you guys doing an every dollar budget?

We're very good about budget. Um, you know, did we're both emotional people and so occasionally do have some impulse purchases that take us outside of that budget. Um, you start creeping up or

getting a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, what it might be for you guys, the no spend months. Okay. So, but that's not sustainable. So, what it might be for you guys, it's it's one of two things.

The first thing is if we know that we're on a tight budget and we knowingly say

we can't afford this, but we're going to put on the credit card. We're going to put on the credit card. You know, we're going to do that. So, you've decided that. And so, for that reason, then you need to say, "Okay, this is a habit we have and it's not working for us. Let's cut up the credit card." That way when

that sneaky feeling of let's build a treehouse sneaks up, you can't put it on a credit card because you ain't got a credit card, right? So, let's take the cookies off the shelf so you're not tempted by them. And then you're forced to stick to your budget. And then what will happen is you'll go, "Man, I'm just

I don't I'm not happy with something with our lifestyle. We want more money." And then your creative brain will kick in. You'll go, "Okay, what can we do to bring up our income?" And you won't be dependent on these credit cards anymore.

I think you should cut your card up right now on the air. Heyo.

Uh oh. Oh, we got I double dog dare you.

Did you hear the chuckle? That was the respectful chuckle. It's an uncomfortable laugh. Which credit card?

I'll tell you. Do all of them. Cut them right now. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I you know what? I would um honestly we stopped using them. I used to be in the habit of you know we put everything on the credit card and we pay it off. Um, but you know, just a couple of those times where it has leaked beyond where we were able to fully pay it off.

Chris, you're not ready. He's not ready. Chris, you're not ready.

you Here's the problem. I don't think you've hit I don't think you're ready.

Yeah. I don't think you've hit that moment. 10 more grand. Should he charge 10 more grand? Let's get it to 60 grand.

What's going to make you miserable? Something's going to have to make you so uncomfortable with these things that you're like, "No more." That's what we Ken, that is what we find on this show.

Oh, I agree 100%. You're not there. You You called us. Why? So, what is the reason for calling us? I feel pretty close. What's the reason for calling?

So, my question is dealing with the credit card debt. I' I feel like I've got three Well, maybe we just told you.

So, we got to stop using them first

and then we pay it down. Here, roll this roll this over in your mind, Chris. Roll this over in your mind. You cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating it.

So, as long as you have these credit cards, you're creating the problem. So, you'll never solve it. It's infinite.

It's the cat chasing its tail, dog chasing its tail. So, you have to stop the crazy cycle. And the way you stop the crazy cycle is you say, "I'm not going to keep contributing to this problem. I'm not going to keep adding to the pile. I'm going to stop it. Turn off the faucet. Then you can clean up the mess." Yes.

Absolutely. And so what Ken and I were at that point and that's what kind of why I'm calling. Then you got to cut those bad boys up. Snap them up. Yeah.

Put them through the little dude. I'll cut them up right now. There we go. Cuz you guys got an impulse problem. Yeah.

And you just said that. Those are your words. You got them right now? We got We got about a minute and a half. You got them on you?

Yeah. You got You want to cut? Let's go to town. Yeah. Do it. Do it. And you're going to be in the fetal position later today. You're gonna maybe so in the shower because you're going to realize Oh my gosh. I This This was a security blanket. All right. So, you got some scissors.

Do we need do there? Okay. This Tell everybody what's happening right now. Describe what's happening. We got to make this exciting.

Oh, should I use names? Okay. Which one do we got here? This is Hold it up. Tell us what it's called. Chase Visa.

Chase Visa. Hold it near the phone so we can hear it. Okay. Hold on. Chase. This

is a Chase Visa.

All right. Let's see if you can hear that. Yeah. Oh, you catch it.

We heard we heard the cut and we heard we heard the exhale. Are you sure you weren't giving yourself a haircut? That was uh sounded like barber scissors. So, we got to we got to go. We got about 45 seconds. What are What's next?

Uh options for getting the credit card.

I don't want to do something stupid, but

I mean with these they're charging 30%.

Cut it. Stop talking and cut it. What are you cut? Cut it.

I'll cut another one. Come on. That's What is it? Which one are you cutting?

Tell us quick.

Hold on. City card. City card. Go. Yes.

Out of here. We won't wait for the sound. Just tell us when it's cut.

Oh, yes. There it is. Gone. It's gone.

Do you see? That's great. How many more you got?

Several. Wait till I get to the MX in the drawer. Keep going. Keep going.

Well, you know what? We are we're a cash business and we got a lot of people that

uh need to hear these advertisements coming up. So, we got to take care of business. You, my friend, need to keep cutting. Yeah. Keep cutting. Don't Good job. Good job, Chris. Love it. Did you hear that? Every time he cut one, he went He went Yeah. Yeah. It's painful.

It's visceral. You feel it. That is so

fantastic. Keep cutting, Chris. Yes. All

right. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside 888255225.

That's the phone number to jump in. We'd love to hear from you taking your money calls, your income related calls today.

Matthew is joining us in Houston, Texas.

Matthew, how can we help?

Hey guys. Um, how are you today? Good.

How are you? I'm good, thank you. So,

uh, I'm 25 years old, uh, career salesman. At the beginning of this year, I, uh, landed a new job, which, um, I've

been, you know, my income has grown drastically. And, um, closing on a house at the end of the month. Um, and I just wanted to know, uh, you know, at my age, I want to start investing early. I also want to be debtree. uh is there a balance to investing uh you know post

tax dollars and paying off the home or

should all of my excess cash just be going to the principal and you know I I

start investing once that's paid off because you know at my age the the value of the compound interest if I start now I feel could really pay off down the road. Um so I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Yeah I mean I think it's a good question to have and I think it's a question that a lot of people have. So, you just closed on this home.

Um, let's make sure you're in the position to begin investing. Do you have three to six months of expenses saved? I do. Okay, great. Um, and then at that

point, you would be considered baby step four, which is you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month.

Are you doing that?

I haven't started well I contribute to my uh company's 401k plan but other than

that I haven't I haven't started which is pre-tax but I haven't started investing any post tax um money yet.

Okay good. So what what I would say is

whatever you're doing now if you have if you have access to a match through that employer account I would invest up to that match. And you said it's an after tax.

It's a pre-tax uh with my employer. So, okay, they match 3%. I'm contributing 6%

right now. Okay. So, I would do up to the match and then I would go over to a Roth IRA and I would go ahead and max something like that out and then if you still have money left in your 15% of contributions, then you could go back out and get as close to maxing out that 401k as possible. The goal here is again

for you to be investing 15% of your gross income. And most people do it on a monthly basis because, you know, you can kind of set it and forget it with your employer. And so that's what I would do.

And then beyond the 15%, any money that you have extra, I would put it towards the paying off of the house. Um, and so that's the way we teach at 25 years old, you're not married yet. You don't have any kids yet. So, you can kind of forget for for now about baby step uh five

because you don't have any kids. There's no 529 that you need to really add to.

And so then for you, the next step is baby step six. You're putting extra money towards the house. And you get to decide uh how intentional you're going to be about that, right? You don't have to go crazy like you did with the other baby steps, but you're a single guy. You could probably, you know, make a lot of headway on that. What do you owe on the house? Uh so around 450, 460. Okay. I

haven't even made my first mortgage payment yet. Yeah. You said you closed here. You haven't even closed yet, right? Or you just closed? haven't closed yet, right? Okay. Yeah. And so that's what I would advise you to do.

That's what I did and that's what I do.

Yeah. I'm I'm going to agree with you. I mean, I I I love Jade's advice. Follow it. Uh but I just want to commend you. I I love this. I love this mindset that you've got, man. You haven't even made the first payment yet. You're calling and going, "Uh, what do I do first?" You

know, and but we want you to be set up for the long term, and you're going to have no problem getting rid of the house payment. Mhm. And the reason I suggested you going to the Roth right after the 3% is we want that 3% match. I mean, obviously that's free money, but then I love the Roth option for you because on down the line, you're going to want money that you have access to that you don't have to pay taxes on and that you don't have that required uh minimum distribution.

And so that's why we would say that and then come back and you can fill up that 401k when you're done.

I'd say around $400,000. Oo, wow. My

son. See, I've been wanting to ask that.

I I had to wait. I didn't want to interrupt, but I I was going I had a sense that he was that he he had jumped into a Well, when he told us the amount on the house, I was like, "Wait a second." Yeah. Yeah. So, here here's the only reason I asked that.

Again, this is all an exclamation point to J what Jade said. I can't add anything to what she said on that. U with that kind of income, you're going to be fine. You're going to be more than fine.

So, you just follow the baby steps. And with that kind of income, man, it is going to be ridiculous. Okay.

I So, I was just going to mention I took a look at the amortexization schedule on the loan and that really just kind of ticked me off, you know, like um so I want to let it tick you off, but go in order, you know what I mean? like get your investment strategy because because with that kind of income and and and what Jade's talking about with the investment calculator, it's one of our favorite things to do. It is. Are you running some numbers for him?

I want to run a few numbers for him. He's so upset about his loan, his his his mortgage, his amortization payment. We need to get his mind focused on this part of the advice. Okay.

So, then let's play a game. How much do you already have in retirement investments?

Only maybe $6 or $7,000. Okay. Okay, I'll put 7,000 in there. All right. And then let's say you contribute uh let's see 60,000 a

year. So let's say 5,000 a month. All

right. And then we'll get you at 10 10% rate of return cuz you make a lot of money, dude. If you don't do anything else from now until forever, like up from now until 65. Oh, actually, hold on. Hold on. Yeah, I was going to say I accidentally put in the wrong retirement age, but it's actually worth noting. I put in 48. Like, if you were to retire at 48, you'd have 5.3 million.

I thought I put in I thought I put in 65. Let's put in 65 and see what it says. If you go till 65,

I'm shook. Tell him the number now. Now, don't remind him what he's putting in every every every year. No, this is monthly. If you if you put in 5,000 a month cuz you make 400,000. Yeah. That's 60. That's 60,000 a year at a 10% annual

rate of return. You already have 7,000 there. If you do this from age 25, you said you're 25, right? Yeah, I'm 25.

Until age 65. You sitting down? Are you sitting down? Because I'm standing up.

$31 million.

$31 million. $31 million. That's crazy.

I had to put my pinky like on Austin

Powers. Yeah. Yeah. So now you feeling a

little bit better. I do. I feel a lot better. But you know, and that's that's really why I called you guys because I know that, you know, if I start now, by the time I'm, you know, 65, it's going to make a huge difference. And by the way, And oh, by the way, that doesn't mean you aren't paying your house off.

You're still paying the house off. Yeah.

We didn't even talk about that. And we didn't even talk about the fact that this is you starting like this is not you at your full potential. You're still going up in the world. You're still on an upward trajectory. Yeah, man. I thought my I thought something was wrong with my calculator. No, that's 15% of your income. And oh, by the way, after you budget all that, you are now making extra payments on the house. Oh, yeah.

And you'll pay the house off before you know it. So, this isn't an either or.

It's both. And that's the point of the exercise, right, Matthew? I'm happy that I know you. I'm happy I got to talk on the phone to you. Hey, check back in with us. Uh, keep letting us know how this goes because so many people need to hear this. If you can get these things firing on all cylinders, even if you're not making 400,000 a year, if you're making 200,000 a year, what is possible when you get a hold of your finances so early is so amazing. And for anybody

listening, if you've never like played with a an investment calculator, I suggest we have a great one, ramseyolutions.com. You can check it out or you can just Google Ramsey investment calculator and it'll pop up. But start playing with those numbers to see what your life can be. And I mean that's motivating at the very least.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. Love the breakdown, Jay. That's always fun when we get into the numbers cuz you know in his mind he's like I got to pay that house off.

I got to pay that house off. I got to pay. It's like no, it's both. It's both.

It's not either or.

uh fun to run those numbers. And boy, that's a staggering number. That is a staggering number. And let me just And not many people make his money. No, they don't. I want to at least call out that early in life. at 25 to be making 400K.

No, he's in a he's in the top 1%. That's top 1% one 100%. So, I just want to at least call that out. But let's also Ken, let's explain why we care so much about paying off the primary mortgage because at the end of the day, yes, we want you to have the compound interest, but at the end of the day, there is going to be a time where you do not work and you don't want to be making payments on a mortgage. Your mortgage is the biggest line item in your budget. You want that

done and paid for by the time you're you're, you know, that age so that you can just live. Yeah, I totally totally

agree. There's a young man that's living like no one else. I promise you he's going to be living like no one else and also giving like no one else at a young age, by the way. Great stuff. Good hour, Jade Warshaw. All right, does it for this hour. There'll be more Ramsey show, I promise. [Music]

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Welcome to the Ramsay Show where we coach you to win in your life.

Specifically, winning in your money or with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number for you to get coached up today is88255225.

I'm Ken Coleman Jade Warshaw is with me and we're here for you. 8 8255225.

We'll start it off in the Motor City, Detroit, Michigan. Sarah is on the line.

Sarah, how can we help?

Hello. Hi. How are you? Hi. Good. How are you doing? Good. What can we help with? Well, first of all, thank you for taking my call. I love you guys. You guys are absolutely amazing and helped me so far. Um, what the challenge I'm facing now is I have $300,000 worth of debt and I just I can't see a way out.

Um, I'm working three jobs and it just it just doesn't seem to work. Wow. Well, break it down for Jade here. So, start off with uh your income uh through the three different jobs. Give us a range and then walk walk her through your debt. My salary position I bring in 80.

I'm sorry. My salary is 80. Um I gross

um I'm sorry, I bring in 80 and then I net 55 when you take out tax insurance.

Mhm. And then I have a second job that I

I gross 40, but then I I'm an independent contractor, so I have to take out taxes and stuff. So I net about 30 to 35,000. Good. And then I have another part-time job that brings in about 600 bucks a month. Okay. Okay. So

72 on the 85. So you're somewhere in that 92 93 range with those numbers. Is that right? Net. Yeah. I mean that sounds amazing, but that's Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but you can do something with that. Dr. Jade is in today, so it's

going to be okay. I'm going to pretend like you didn't say that. Um,

so the debt doctor. No. Oh, okay. Okay.

I'll take that. The debt know what I was doing. I didn't know where you were going, Sarah. Now that I know where he's going, you can do surgery on this. I can help you. There you go. So, you're bringing in almost $8,000 a month, which ain't too shabby. Um, but you've got $300,000 of debt. So, walk us through this debt. It's all student loans.

Okay. Private, federal. Um, I have

$12,000 with private. I will have those hopefully paid off by December. Good.

The rest, the 300,000 is all government.

Okay. What was it for? I'm just curious.

I went to law school. And are we practicing law? Yes. And that's the uh

that's the the number one amount of money you gave us. What kind of law are you doing? Yeah, I do uh estate planning, probate stuff. Gosh, it feels like we've got a path to be making a whole lot more than that.

Am I right or are you feeling like you're capped out and why? No, you hit the nail on the head.

Uh do you is there anything keeping you tied to the Detroit area?

Uh family. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.

One other silly question, Jaden, and I'll get out of the way. Um I I I am curious with with what you've done so far. Is there a pivot

or some type of additional legal work that you could do that would add to your income based on your current qualification or specialization?

So, I got my real estate license about a year and a half ago. So, that's my second job. Yeah. I'm talking just the legal field right now.

Well, the reason why I got a different type of job is I'm I'm really burned out practicing law. So, I'm trying to expand on other things. So, that's why I got my real estate license to help bring in more money, but that's extremely part-time, but I I really want to try to pivot out of practicing. I get it. But, I'm going to And again, I'm about ready to hand it to you, Jade. No problem. But you got $300,000 in law school debt. I

don't think you get to burn out yet. And I and I think that the greatest opportunity for you to make money is through your law, your legal work. Yeah.

You just don't have time to sell houses.

That's a full-time deal, you know? So, it's either or. It's like you go all in on selling homes and if

you do that, then there's no limit to what you can make. But I'm just going to make that point. You you you know, you got to bring in some more income here cuz 300,000 is doable. Well, I'm going to hand it over to Jade. Jade, walk her through the uh the process here. Okay, so the loans, did you consolidate them or are they single? Singular. They're single. Okay, good. That's good. That's good. Okay, so as tright as this may

sound, all we're doing is listing them from smallest to largest and we're paying minimum payments on all of them.

Hopefully, uh I don't know, are you enrolled in any of the assistance plans?

Are you in save plan or anything like that? the income driven payment. I've been on that for about 13 years. Okay.

And is it going to run out or do you still have time to be on it? I mean, honestly, I try to reenroll and it takes months and months to get an answer. So, I I don't know. I'm kind of in limbo right now.

Okay. What's your current payment for the for the lot of them? I don't pay anything. Okay, good.

So, here's what we do. The fact that your minimum payments are zero is a good thing for you right now because that means you can put the full strength of your income on the smallest debt and knock it out fast. I wish there was a way to tell you that there was an easy button here. There's just not.

And if you've listened to our show for any bit of time, you know my husband and I had 280. Okay? And at the time we weren't making what to combine what you're making now.

part of this that you have to just, you

know, ride that income until the the

debt is gone. You know, once you have maxed out your money for your time, and I don't know that you have yet, Ken, I agree with Ken. I think that you can do more to max out your time and get better money for it.

And then when it's done, it's done. That song is going to be in my head now all day. And I'm have you to thank for that.

I'm kind of like Yeah. And I'm kind of like torn because I actually make more money selling real estate in half the amount of time versus my salary position. Of course, I get that paycheck every two weeks. Well, then what's that transition look like?

Cuz I that's what I'm getting at. If you get after it and and you can double triple your income, then this is a game changer. Key key word is consistently.

uh, stock some money up or something to be able to then go, all right, I'm dropping one of these jobs. My gosh, you got more jobs, you know, than you than you know what to do with right now. So, we got to create some margin timewise, which means we got to have some margin moneywise, right, Jade? You track it with me.

And then what what is what would it take for her to get to a place to where she can now go all in on real estate? And that's going to take a little bit of time to build that pipeline up. Yeah.

looking for you to be able to replace whatever your income was at its best, right? And if you can do that consistently with real estate, I say more power to you. The weird thing about real estate though is of its nature, it tends to be Yeah. up and down. Yeah.

What's the market like in Detroit area?

It's slow. I get I get consistent at

least one or two listings and closings.

Uh but it's a roller coaster. Yeah. See, so you got to Jade's point, got to factor that in. The market determines what's going on in some degree. You don't just, you know, hang your shingle and it's everybody wants to buy a house from me. I'm going to tell you, when you have this kind of debt, there is something to be said for being able to count on. I know what's coming in and I know what I'm doing with it. There's just kind of that assembly line. Yeah.

Assembly line that you can just I'm cranking it out. I'm paying off the debt and this is temporary and when the time comes, you'll do what you love. Yeah, I agree. Uh I because of the market where

it's at, I'm going to go with Jade's.

decide what you can do and lock in on it. And then if something changes, then the timeline changes. But get that that mindset for the climb. Right? It's going to take me a while to climb this mountain, but I will get there.

Appreciate the call. You got this. Stay encouraged. This is the Ramsay Show.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show America.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

The phone number for you to jump in. we'd love to coach up today is88255225.8825-55225.

Amy joins us now in Vancouver. Amy, how can we help today?

Hi. Um, my question is about a shared

asset I have with my other adult sibling. Um, so the asset is actually in

Texas and it was given to all of us by

my parents and um it was it's definitely

been a blessing and um it's getting to

the point where there wasn't really a long-term plan put in place. So it's starting to feel less like a blessing and more of a point of conflict. Um so

me and all my siblings have lived there.

It's a house. Um, and all me and all my siblings have our names are on it and we have all lived there at some point um while paying rent

except my brother is now he's been in the house for about six years and he hasn't paid rent and he's currently

um on leave with the military um and I

tried to reach out to make a plan before he left and he didn't respond to anything. So, I'm wondering how to navigate this asset and keep it a blessing um while preserving our relationships with this. How many siblings total? There's

four of us. And how did he get this

deal? How did he just start living in when when when everybody else has lived in it and paid rent? I'm presuming you guys have rented it to other people as well. Is that true? Um I think we've rented it to one other family. Um, how did he get away with living rentree for six years?

Uh, so it was kind of like on your

integrity. Um, there was an account set up and you put a certain amount in the

that account every month. Um, and he decided he didn't want to use that same account. He wanted to do his own thing, which we're like, that's fine. You know, you can pay rent how you What is the rent? What is it? It's $250 a month. Oh

my gosh. This is a joke. And so he's not been paying it. Not not once. What do the other siblings think about this?

So they think like we would we don't

know how to resolve it. The communication's not great. Um they kind

of want to be like, well, yeah, we'd like to talk about they kind of written it off as like, oh, like we're just

never going to see money from that. It's just never going to nothing's going to change. How how' you arrive at the 250?

Is that like an arbitrary amount or is that maintenance? What is that? So that

was set up like over a decade ago, like a long time ago. Um m and it was it was

with the purpose of like oh this is affordable so we can live in it and save money so we can you know kind of get ahead. It doesn't include like utilities or anything like that. So all four of you are on the deed. Yes. What's it

worth the asset? probably 200,000

um at the on the bottom of both side and

there's no debt on it, right? No. No.

So, do the other three siblings I'm sorry, there's four of you. So, the other two plus you are they all wanting to get out of this as well.

Are you there? I'm sorry. I I couldn't hear the end of that question. Okay, I'm here. I'm asking, do the other siblings, are they in agreement with you about they want to get out, or are you the only one thinking going, "How do I get out of this?" No, the other siblings were all in agreement. Okay. Okay. Well, that helps. Majority rules. So, so I I'm going to I don't know. So, I want to say something, but I I'll first say I don't know. I've never experienced this before. So, um

I would be seeking counsel, uh actual legal counsel on this, uh on on what your options are when you've got four people on a deed, three want to get out.

Um I just don't know enough legal on that. But I would say this,

however this goes down, it's time for three of you to stop

letting him bully you.

This guy's a This guy's a bully. And I know it's your brother. I'm just telling you like it is. He's not returning your calls. He's just acting like a school

ground, like on the playground bully.

I'm not going to talk to you. I'm giving you the silent treatment. I'm creating all this tension and I'm not playing

Paul. I'm just creating all this and I'm daring you. He's daring you guys to do something. And I think he's doing it because he knows you're not willing to do anything about it.

And I think u that's the only little thing I wanted to put in there because I think however you resolve this Jade I'll get out of the way if you've got a point on this but I I think whatever needs to happen he needs to realize the gig is up. Yeah. I think you you've long outstayed your welcome. You've been you've taken advantage of us.

It's over. Yeah. So just for clarity for me. So you guys the plan was when you live in the house you put the $250 in the account and that's split amongst the other three siblings, right?

No.

towards repairs like oh if something like breaks you have money in the account to pay for it. And so while he's been living in the house if something broke what happened?

Um I'm not sure. Well he there are things broken and they're just not fixed. So he just didn't take care of the place while he was there either.

Right. Oh wow. Okay. So yeah I mean the

majority rules here if you have to get a judge to force this I I don't think it would be that difficult to do it. Um, we could talk about the idea of him buying you guys out, but I don't think that's gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. Um, so yeah, you might have to sit down.

All of you guys sit down and try to make it light, but for me, the fact that you're calling, it's no longer light. So, you can try to keep that a light conversation, but I think the longer you let this go on, the worse it gets. So, to Ken's point, I Yeah, I think you guys get together, somebody talk to a judge and say, "How do we force this?" Because we're ready to sell it. We've kept it this long.

He's not paying rent.

I kind of like the fact that he doesn't owe each of you because I mean, if if you guys are splitting this money, truly, he'd owe each of you $6,000. But he doesn't since he's not even taking care of the place. Although, who knows if that'll affect the resale value, but I'd get out of it immediately. I would, too, because if you look at this split, let's say they sell it for 200 and you it's less than 50 grand each.

Yeah. It's just not enough money to be dealing with all this garbage.

I think your instincts are right. Let's get out of this thing. No messing around. It's not we're spending a bunch with a lawyer to the judge thing, whatever. I think Jade's right. Let's clean, efficient, force his hand. We're

selling this thing and we we we avoid all the tension and then Thanksgiving and Christmas takes care of itself. But yeah, I'd get out quick. I really would.

That's that's an unfortunate situation.

I mean, when you get and see, that's okay. So, I'm sitting here and I didn't ask. Okay, I've already put on hold, but like I didn't ask. I guess I should have if mom and dad are still alive. I got the picture they aren't around. I got the feeling they're not around. But I just and for that reason, I just I sat there and I went,

note to self, if Stacy and I want to bless our three kids, I need to bless them individually, not try to do a, hey,

we're going to do this asset and work the three of you into it. I just sat there and I went, note to self, cash money and individually. Like, you're not in it together. Yeah. I'm blessing you this way. I'm blessing you this way, this way, and it's not this like joint thing where there's just it's just what I don't see what the value is in that.

It was probably the family home is my guess. And I think and they probably had

the option to sell it early on, but they weren't ready to part with it yet. And so it probably just became Listen, I am adding all sorts of story to this that I don't know are true. So I'm sorry if that's not true. But you agree, right, that to to give four kids a house. All

right, you guys. Here you go. Yeah.

Even if there's not a problem, it just feels like it's easy for a problem to exist because then you have four different people who have four different views of life. Yeah. Money. It's like when you get a gift card to a restaurant you don't really like. You're happy for the gift card, but now you're forced to eat at Applebee's. Oh jeez, you just

went there. Just saying. A shot across the bow. I'm just saying. Eating good in the neighborhood. I mean, there's a lot of people that like an Applebee's. Hey, note to self team. No Applebee's gift

cards for Jade. That would not go over well. Yeah, it's Where would one Where would one get you a gift card, too? Um, I'm with you. Asking for a friend. Visa gift card. I don't know. I want to know.

I'm putting you on the spot. 20 seconds.

If I'm going to get you, Stacey and I are going to get you and Sam a gift card to a restaurant. Where do you want? Where do you want to go? Um, and it has to be national so people know it. Okay. Come on. I don't know. J.

Alexander. All right. Do you guys have that? Yeah. Do you guys you live here too? You have I'm not going to lie. I want Do you guys have that? Are you aware you live in Middle Tennessee as well? I wanted to say Red Lobster. I I don't mind that at all. I love a good lobster. All right, quick break. This is the Ramsay Show.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Ken Coleman,

bestselling author of many books, but most recently Find the Work You're Wired to Do, home of the Get Clear Career

Assessment, which is very, very great.

Very fun, very fun tool. And it's always good to be with you. By the way, you're a best-selling author, too. Yeah.

Money's not a math problem. Pick it up.

You can find them all at ramiesolutions.com/store.

Get into it. Get involved. I want to get involved with these phone lines. And by the way, if you want to get involved with us, call us. The number is 88825-5225 and we will pick up your call. Let's pick up Alicia's call. Alyssa, actually is how we're going to pronounce that. Green Bay, Wisconsin. What's going on, Alyssa?

Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call.

Did I say it right? Um, it's Alyssa.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Got you. Yeah. Very nice. Um, thanks. Um, so I have another

insurance question for you. Wow. It's the day of insuranceances. Wow. All right. Hit us with it. So, mine's about life insurance. So, my husband and I were actually in disagreement on how much we should have. Okay. Um, so we're

and we're actually on the same page about most everything else when it comes to finances, but this one. Um, you So,

I'll just lay it out. Um, yeah. What does he think? Yeah. How much? Okay. So,

we both right now have 500,000 on each

of us, and he is completely fine with that. Okay. Um, and I used to be, but

then I've been listening to you guys a lot more, and now I know that it should be 10 to 12 times our annual income.

That's right. Um, and so we're just not at enough. And he is like not about it.

Well, this makes him wrong and this makes you right. Well, let And yeah, I agree with Ken and let's talk deeply about it. Um the purpose of insurance is

to uh if something god forbid were to

happen to either of you, anybody that's dependent on your income, they will be set up, right? And it's not just for the moment, it's ongoing. And so what's your income and what's his income?

Um so mine's right at about 100 and his is about 130. Okay. So yours is at 100,

his is at 130. So if something, god forbid, were to happen to you, he's he's got 5 years salary basically, but you're

saying, "Hey, I'd love for this to be even better. I'd love for you to be that if we do what I'm saying, which is you'd have, you know, over a million dollars of coverage." 2.5 is what I'm recommending. I'm bumping it up. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Because you got them at 230 combined income. Yeah. But I'm saying individual policies, right? I know. But my point total is going to be 2.5 between the two of them.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But if something were to happen to you, like for you to be able to provide 10 10 basically 10

years of of your salary to him. What a great gift. Yeah. I mean that allows and vice versa. So what's the difference pay? Like he's probably thinking about quarterly payments or monthly payments.

What does this look like? Have you priced out the numbers with Xander?

Yeah, actually I did. Um, and so

basically like he thinks it's a waste of money and honestly we probably would have none if it weren't for we're in the military so we have to take that 500 each. Okay. Um, and so thank goodness.

But um, and no and he does have a point like he says, you know, like if if one of us were to pass the other one, you know, with that 500 like could easily pay off everything and then we each make enough to like, you know, live our with our daily expenses. So I get it. But I was telling him because I heard you say actually not that long ago. Um, and it kind of made me like really look into this and like be like, "Wow, I never thought about this before." Because we had always had that same mindset as like he has now.

the intent is that if they pass, it's

not just to like, oh, here pay off your debt and and like not a retirement plan.

It's like, hey, invest this and then the

interest should pretty much make up for the income that you're losing. And I was like, oh my goodness, that makes so much sense. So, I really want to do it. Yeah.

Um, but he is like he he just doesn't he

thinks it's a waste of money. And and of course, like he jokes when I mention it and he's like, "You know what? I'm not going to die until we're way older anyway, so it doesn't even matter." And I'm like, "Well, I love your confidence." That makes me a little uncomfortable almost. I think he's uncomfortable. I think I think the whole, like you said, it's the 500. It's part of work. It's required. So, in many ways, for him, that was a no-brainer.

But when it's time to actually turn on the, you know, turn on the lights in his brain and start thinking about, it's an uncomfortable conversation. You're talking about what happens when you, you know, kick the bucket and that's not I I'd flip this. I'd flip this on him. Uh, I think he's real cavalier about this. I think he's too cavalier about it to be completely honest. Um, but okay, play it

his way. Go. All right, I did the numbers. I did the ran the numbers. Got some quotes from Xander. Let me show you the quotes. And since you're okay if I die just living with the 500. Turns out

I'm okay with that, too. But tell you

where I'm not okay if you die early, Sparky McGee. There you go. I don't think 500 is enough for my safety gland.

And I got some numbers I ran. And uh I'm

pretty much telling you that we need to do this. I'm not asking your permission.

I'm just getting you to buy in from my peace of mind. And I'd lay the real numbers out, which by the way, I'm just curious, what would it what would the total increase be yearover-year with the

numbers you got from Xander? I'm just curious. I want to know, too. So, yeah.

And actually, I was really impressed.

Um, so I did a quote on just mine for

another 500 because that would put me at a million. Perfect. Um, and that's only going to be like $17 a month. What? So,

I go back to Sparky and I'm sorry I'm calling your husband Sparky, but but he's kind of irritating me a little bit and I'm trying to be nice. I'd go back to him and go, "Hey, listen. I know you're good with the 500k if I kick the bucket early. I'm not. I just bumped it

up to what this guy Dave Ramsey's been teaching for decades and uh it's $17. I

mean, come on. That's one drive-thru.

That's one time through the drive-thru.

Yeah, that's two Starbucks, you know.

Come on. So, I would just present. I'd

present it that way and say, "I'm doing this." Yeah. Yes. Ken. Oh, by the way, we do we do have to agree on everything.

Like, that is something that we Oh, I know. I know. I'm having some fun with this. I'm not But but we're also talking about $17 a month. I don't think this is

a knockdown dragout is my point. Is he being stingy? Are you guys still in debt? Is that why he's being kind of tight with the purse strings. Okay. Yes, we are. We do have debt, but it is not out of control. Okay. Um, is he super tight?

Yes. Yes.

Um, and and the thing is is like I it's not that I don't understand it and I value it and everything. Um, and but I

just think that like he thinks it's unnecessary. So, we are not about unnecessary spending. Um, and he's like, "No, we're completely covered." Like we like he is like, "Oh, no." like, you know, if if the 500,000 that would take care of everything and we both make enough income that like all of our, you know, monthly expenses are good. There's just no reason for it.

But let's go back to the basics of this. We need to and this is what you tell him. And hey, play the call like the this this is documented. Oh, I can't wait.

Sorry, man, for calling you sparking.

But so here's the thing. Let's go back to the basics on this because when we uh

what we teach here, right, the baby steps and getting out of debt, the whole entire purpose is is to change your family tree. It's all legacy built at the end of the day. It provides peace now, but it's also providing peace for the for the future and for the people that come after you.

that fail safe that kicks in. And to spend uh Sparky, Marky, Mark, Biff,

whatever your name is, to spend the extra $17, bud. It's $24 a year. It's

$24 to make sure your family has half a

million more for, by the way, for your peace of mind. I keep playing that card.

I wasn't I was having fun with it, but I'm not joking around. He's tight. Play to that. Go. You're tight because you're fearful about money and stuff, and I appreciate that. There you go, Ken. But guess where? I'm tight. I'm nervous about this. And it's $24 a month. So go.

So you know what? Yes, we got to be in agreement. I'd say Sparky, it's time to have a new budget meeting. We have It's like calling Congress back for a special session. We're having a special midmon

budget meeting. And I am going to find $17 a month. Yeah. To make sure that I'm

not stressed out when you die early cuz you drink too much Diet Coke or whatever. Sorry, Diet Coke drinkers. You mean sorry Sparky? Sparky, we love you,

Sparky. We want the best. We do love you. Help your wife out, dude. Come on.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside Jade Warsaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

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All righty. Today's question comes from Andy in Delaware. My fiance had a lot of

debt related to a prior divorce. She's currently living with her parents and her parents used a little cash and 10 credit cards to pay off her debt. So now she owes them close to $75,000.

I know legally most of this is not in my fiance's name, but morally we owe it together uh when we get married. I didn't agree with how her mom put this debt on credit cards and it doesn't sound like they are paying much more than the minimums right now. My plan is to take out a personal loan after we get married to pay off her parents in full so I have control over the debt completely. This would drop down the interest significantly.

We could then attack it with both of our incomes to pay it off as quickly as we can.

Okay, so just to clarify, there was a divorce. she had debt. Her parents said, "We'll take care of it, but we're doing it with credit cards." And you're like, "No, when we get married, we're going to take out a personal loan to clear it." Um, I don't necessarily like that method. I like that you're saying, "Hey, after we get married, then we'll tackle it together." That is right. So, green check on that. Um, I would not do the loan. Um, the truth is, you're only on

the hook for the 75,000. you're not necessarily on the hook for any interest that is incred because of their method of paying for this. That part is on them because they chose that route. They chose that card with that interest rate. Unless there's a conversation that I don't know about in my mind, I'd be like, I owe you $75,000.

Ken, I couldn't agree more. It's a lot easier. They they've already they've already assumed this debt for her. This is not something that she put on them.

They did this. Uh, I would pay the parents directly and I agree with Jade.

I wouldn't worry about the interest. That's their problem. I think they'll be thrilled that you guys are serious about paying it off and I think it's a lot easier to pay them off. Now, I would only say the caveat to that is

you both need to agree, you and your fiance, that we aren't skipping this. We're going to treat this like it is a private loan. Like our credit would be affected, like they'd come after us with collections. all of the things that people that loan money put in place as some sense of accountability.

And I think that's the key or else this could create tension. And I I don't think that's the case here. I think I think I think this is like we want to get this out. I love the urgency.

Love the character and the integrity here. But I agree with Jade 100%. Pay the parents directly. Here's the problem I do foresee is that he he's already noticing, hey, her mom put this on credit cards.

It and this is him speculating. doesn't seem like she's making payments.

something there where they're paying the minimums. Yeah, they're paying minimums. So, I do foresee a problem of down the line them saying, "Well, we did this, but it's the balance has grown." So, I

do think you need to have some sort of really really clear conversation about how interest is handled and how that part is not pertaining to you and and records, records, records, records, records. I would treat every payment that's sent to the parents, however you choose to do it. I would have that in a

journal, a a financial record. Your bank would easily give you that. I would do that so that it is tracked. Yes.

If you have the conversation that Jade is recommending, and I agree. Um because again, they could do something dumb with all that 75,000 and not pay off the cracker. But at that point, and ain't my problem. And let it be known when Ken and I talk about you having this conversation, we really mean uh your your wife, not you.

You need to stay far from this conversation and let her speak for both of you because otherwise this could get I agree grizzly.

Nick, how can we help?

Hey, uh Ken and Jade. Um thank you for taking my call. Um I had a question about having dual employment. Um reason

being was uh we have three boys, um

seven, six, and three. So we're in that messy middle. Um, and I wanted to give my wife the opportunity to, you know, be a stay-at-home mom. Uh, she was a nurse to begin with, and then, uh, once we had our third child, um, I just said, you know, might might as well stay at home.

We can, uh, survive with my income. Um,

now that she, um, they took advantage of her or she took advantage by herself going through her masters to get nurse practitioner. Um, and she just completed the program and you told her to stay home and Uh, yeah. Hold on. Hold on. I did. Okay.

So, um, can you go ahead? Yeah, keep going.

That's all right. Go ahead. Yeah, keep going. Set it. Get it. Get it. Get get to our question. Yep. Okay. So, uh, my I

work for a fire department and I make about 110,000 and then I also have a family business where I make about a h 100,000 as well. Um obviously the fire is is pension and then the family business is just straight salary. Um there is a simple IRA that I can contribute to. Um my question is is now that she has her nurse practitioner license and we have no student debt um

am I uh crazy to leave my fire

department employment and give up my uh pension uh

opportunity.

um and allow her income to supplement my

loss and you know obviously strive to

make more as a family business or do I just grind it out with both employments if I can manage it? All right. So, uh how much is she going to excuse me? How much is she going to make as a nurse practitioner?

I would I would hope about 140. Okay.

So, 140. And the family business where you're making a hundred right now, do you own that or are you working for another family member? Uh for my dad.

Okay. And and is that what you want to do long term? Let's go 15 20 years from now. Do you want to be a fireman and be in the business or do you just want to be running that business or not in it at all?

No. And so that's the unique part is I in about five years I had the opportunity to leave the fire department under a full pension or I I'm able to be

um I can uh pull out from the pension. I

I know but I'm not I'm not focusing on that. I'm asking do you want to be long-term owner or involved in the family business? Yes or no? Yes. Yes. I

mean that's the dream. That's what you want, right? Yes. Okay. So what would benefit you leaving the fire department right now? Forget the pension. And I know you're all hung up about the pension. I don't really care about the pension. I'm not minimizing the pension, but we don't make decisions based on pensions. Okay. So, um, my question is,

if you leave the fire department, that's a certain block of hours every week and you just focused on the business, would that allow you to do more and get paid

more in the family business?

Yeah, there would have to be a discussion, but yeah, absolutely. I'd have the discussion. Dad, if I walk away from the fire department and I start a full-time and I'm I'm all my energy in here, what's that look like? This is very simple.

Stop thinking about the fire pension. Because if you walk away from the pension to make your life better in the now and the next, nobody cares about the pension. Jade, I want to know where does the stay-at-home mom who was going to be a nurse practitioner fit into all this? Because that was the thing that made me be like, "Wait, what?

What?" It sounds like she's back in, right? To work. Yeah. No, and that was the goal.

I mean, she just wanted she that was her personal um goal was to become a nurse practitioner and okay, her being stay at home mom, it gave her the opportunity to just focus on school and nothing else.

She's excited and to get back in. And does she have a gig? Uh she's uh

currently seeking. Yeah. Okay, cool.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I walk away from the fireman position. There's You're only in it because of this pension. That's the only evidence you've given us as to why you'd keep doing it. And I just don't think you need to keep doing it. Now, you can if you want to, but if I'm trying to grow in one area, which is for you as a family business, every second I'm spending in the fire station is

taking away from that long-term goal.

And if your wife makes 110, she's

replacing the fireman salary. Yeah, why

not? Bingo. This is a no-brainer. If it

plays out the way that you want it to play out, maybe wait until she gets the gig. I'm afraid to pull the trigger.

Well, don't pull the trigger until she starts making the money and she's in.

No, absolutely. Yeah, man. You got this.

That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I was confused in the very beginning, but I also jumped the gun, so that's why I was confused. Yeah. You got You got a little fired up there. I know. I did. I You thought that was going a different direction. I did. I did. Don't tell me what I can do. Is that what I heard?

Yeah. Yeah. I I uh I

I digress. She's a strong woman. Hear her roar, folks. Good hour. This is the

Ramsay show.

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[Music] [Applause] Welcome to the Ramsay Show where we help you win in your life, America.

specifically winning in your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number for us to coach you up is8825-55225.88255225.

The dynamo next to me is the one, the only Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.

She'll take lead on the money calls and help you manage the money. And I want to help you make more money. So, it's a good combo. Let's get right to it. We're going to go to Denver, Colorado. Peter is there. or Peter, how can we help today? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

So, I'm calling in uh because my wife and I are in baby step two and trying to

get out of debt and um about a year and

a half ago. I got my wife a horse lease started uh because she loved being with

horses and working with them. She was at the time volunteering at a horse center for people with disabilities. Um, so she

got to basically just shovel poop and be around horses, but didn't get to ride ever. And I saw how much joy that was bringing her, so I got her this horse lease. What's that mean? Can you explain that more to me? Yeah, I've never heard of that. Yeah, so basically we pay $350

a month. Um, and she can go out to this

property and ride the horse whenever she wants. Um, her, myself, and the kids

actually. Um, so it's been a lot of fun.

But um I'm wondering if we're being irresponsible since we're in baby step two. Um is it Can I ask more? I'm just

going to dig deeper on the horse lease real quick. So is it there's several horses on the property and she can ride any horse or does she kind of get assigned a horse that's like that's her horse? Tell me more about it. The is it personal? Is it um Yeah. So we just have

the one horse that we have access to.

And how long is how long have you been doing this? Uh about a year and a half.

year and a half and and the idea of her giving this up is met with what kind of reaction?

Um, not great. Uh, a lot of tears and um,

she feels like it just helps her a lot emotionally. Um, yeah. How and wow, how

long would you have to give it up? I mean, how long is you guys' journey? Are we talking? Well, so I don't So we have

like 21,000 in debt. I've got 3,000 on

the last credit card. Um

5,000 maybe it's over 21. So 5,000 on my

truck. Um and then uh I just got a personal loan

for 15,000. Okay. To cover last year's taxes. Um cuz that was the first year we'd ever had to pay taxes. Okay. So you're at 23 now. Yeah. Okay. So is that

it or is there more? That's it. Okay. Um

and what's the income? Sorry, Ken. No, go ahead. Um make about 120,000. Oh,

okay. So why this is going to be gone in a year? You're going to live on 100 and you're going to knock this out in one year or less? Yeah. Shooting for like

nine months, but we'll see. Good for you. Can she work or does she work outside the home? Uh, so she homeschools our three boys and stays at home. Um, that's not what I asked. Can she work?

So, she does sometimes. Um, doing what?

So, I I'm a trim carpenter. Uh, and so

when we're done with houses, um, the general contractor that I work for, we'll hire her to go in and do uh, the post construction cleanup. And what kind of money does she make and and how long does it take her to make this money?

It's very sporadic because it's just when we finish houses. Um, so it could be like three right in a row or like the next one we'll have is maybe two months away. How much time does she take when she cleans?

One to two, one day usually. One day. And so she's able to do this with the kids.

Um, yeah. Usually we just have uh my father-in-law babysit. All right. I'm gathering information over here. Right.

I mean, I'd simplify it. I'd simplify it like this. And some people might hate this answer. Technically, if you're in baby step two, you cut out things like this. Now, you guys aren't you're not

burning like some people are in debt.

And you could be if you choose not to go hard on this, but you're going to be out of debt so quickly. What I'd say is if you want to spend $350 and keep this horse lease up with this horse that you've probably established a relationship with, just earn the $350 a month. Earn it back. I was, first of all, I am shocked right now, but I love

it. You I thought you were gonna go hard on this one. It's an amount of money that's that is truly not going to make or break them to that extent. Yes, but I'm with you. I want to make sure the audience hears this. I want to make sure that Peter hears this. I love this idea cuz that's what I was going to say. No, mama needs to go make the 350 or there

is no horse. Yeah. If because she's got to cover the horse. But I do have one question on that, Peter. Um, let's say it takes you nine months and all this is clear. Is that what you Is that the number you gave us?

That's what we're shooting for. Yeah.

What's the name of the horse? Jesse. Is

Jesse going to be available for lease 9 months from now? Uh, it's certainly not guaranteed. Is Jesse old?

Well, that doesn't make any difference cuz if Jesse dies, we can't lease him anyway. I know, but I'm just saying maybe she wants to live out her Jesse's last night. I'm going to throw a wrinkle into this. Peter and Jade. I'm gonna throw something out and let you two discuss it. Okay. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. I like your idea, but I think the better idea is to go talk to Jesse's owner, okay? And tell Jesse's owner what the story is, okay?

And say, nine months from now, we're going to be debtree. And this is super important to my wife. I need to know that we can jump back into the contract and lease Jesse nine months from now.

And I would take the 350 and I would help mama get motivated to knock this debt out and say we're going to stop riding Jesse for 9 months.

Okay. But she I'm just throwing a I'm throwing a hardcore alternative out there. Peter Jay discuss. So Peter, are

you saying that if you were to cancel the lease, are you worried about Jesse not being available and that somebody else would take the lease spot? Is that what you're concerned about?

Essentially, yes. Yeah. She could just lease her out to somebody else, which is why I have the conversation with Jesse's owner. Yeah. Well, but if I'm the owner, if I'm if I'm Jesse's owner, I'm like, you want me to hold the horse? Like, how can she not lease him out to like 50 people? How many times can you ride Jesse in one month? I mean, that's he's got to be available.

So, we're um there's usually only one.

By the way, I should point out to people who just jumped into the call, Jesse is a horse. We're talking about riding a horse. I should have probably made that clear. I'll refer to him as the horse from now once so as not to confuse everybody. All right. But how many times can you ride the horse in a month? He she the owner. She goes out like once a month, right? Twice a week. Twi Okay.

Twice. Oh, that's a lot. Well, twice a week for $350. And I don't want to get too deeply into your business, but I did want to ask cuz you kind of alluded to it. Does your wife struggle with like some anything mentally because you said it helps her mental health.

Um, I don't think it's so much like a mental health problem so much as just like she she's with the boys constantly. She homeschools totally and like her No need

our children drive us crazy. We are she needs a little time with nature. Come on. Okay. I I listen. I think Ken's idea

can't hurt. It can't hurt you to go by and say, "Hey, we've got a ninemonth window. We've been working with you guys for a year and a half. We love it.

can we need to temporarily suspend this and then we'll be back. You know, give him the date and time. If he says yeah, say yeah. But if not, yeah, tell mom and be like, "Hey, mama, if you want to keep this going, you just got to fund it." Because we decided that our priority is paying off the debt.

And so we decided that that's the priority with our current income. And I want to stand by that. And if you want to do something more, clean some houses. Mama got stuff funded.

Clean some toilets. Well, it doesn't have to be toilets. That's the last thing I'm going to That's the last job I'm taking. I'm trying to make a point.

She really wants to ride the horse. You got to pay for it.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I don't know about you, Ken, but I feel like the last couple of calls we've gotten have had something to do with protections. Making sure that an inheritance is safe, making sure that the money and the net worth that we've amassed is safe, making sure that my identity is safe. It all has to do with insurance.

And everybody wants to have the right insuranceances. After all, insurance is there to mitigate risk, right?

And it can be very confusing to navigate all of the insuranceances and doing, you know, going through. I don't know, Ken, that is something that if we start talking about insurance, my eyes glaze over and I want someone to handle it for me. Yes, I I would concur. And so our

Ramsay trusted pros, they shop the market and they compare all the insurance quotes so that you don't have to and so that I don't have to. And your pro will compare the quotes. They'll look at the discounts and they will bundle the deals for you at no extra cost, which is great. When my husband and I moved here, uh Ken, we were, you know, in a new house.

We had to have the the housing insurance for that. We needed to get the umbrella coverage and all that. And they shopped all the quotes. They rolled it into one nice neat bow and we got more coverage for less money.

Like that. I love that. So, Ramsey Trusted Pros will make sure you have all the coverage you need and nothing that you don't. So, there's not going to be any fluff here.

Ramsey Trusted Pros.

And here's the best part, they truly do have your best interest at heart. I've experienced that, Ken. I know that you have experienced that. So, the question you need to be asking yourself is, do you have the right coverage based on your individual needs? Okay? And so, to do that, go to ramseyolutions.com/co.

Again, that's ramissysolutions.com/co.

And let me just add because

I hear it in the wind. Insurance, guys,

is not a baby step, okay? It's not something that you wait until you're after, you know, after you've paid off your debt or after you've saved up your savings to do. Insurance is something that you do the moment that you've learned about it. And so, if you've been listening to this show for a couple of segments or even just this one segment and you're like, "Oh, you know what?

I don't have life insurance." That is your signal that you need to act on that today, not once you've paid your debt off. Okay?

That's uh the the partnership that we have. You need health insurance today.

If you're a renter and you don't have renters's insurance, this is your sign from this is your sign. You need renters's insurance. You are out here with no coverage. Anything can happen if you don't know if you have the bare minimum of auto. You need to do our

insurance checkup and make sure that you are covered because if you get in an accident and your coverage isn't what you thought it would be, you're about to be up a creek without a paddle. So, please, please, please prioritize this in your every dollar budget. It is so, so very important to get the coverage you need today. Our Ramsey Trusted Pros will help you do that. All right, let's go to the phone lines. Tyler in Buffalo, New York is here. What's going on, Tyler?

Hi. How are we doing today? Doing good.

How can we help?

Hi. So, I'm looking into possibly starting up a home inspector's business come this winter here, and I was just curious on what the right steps would be to do that. Mhm. All right. So, uh, home

inspection, uh, why did you pick that problem or that solution? What what what drew you to that?

I guess the big part that came out of it is, um, the flexibleness. Um, because I

have a job right now that's kind of um, it's seasonal. It it pays very well when the season's on, but then winter time, you don't have u hardly anything going on. Okay. All right. And what what's the homes inspection business like in the brutal winters of Buffalo? I'm I'm guessing you Buffalo folks, I mean, you just know how to handle that kind of snow. I mean, you guys were in the news last year during the football season.

Crazy snow. Is it a normal rhythm and and there is not a big drop off in the wintertime in Buffalo as it relates to home inspection?

Nothing too crazy, you know, with that time right there. I I actually live south of Buffalo and there's a lot of new builds going on, so Okay, good. A lot of possibility for it. Um, you have a background and some expertise, some skill set that lends itself to doing that. Well, um, I did plumbing for about 5 years.

I've shadowed an electrician. I've worked with carpenters. You know, I when it comes to the nuts and bolts of it, I I got it. Trust me, you you had me at plumbing.

I mean, I was like, "Okay, you've got the skill set for that. You enjoy the work. Uh, it can be a pretty good business. I mean, you can build this thing and and to where it could replace your seasonal income.

Uh, so I'm not seeing any red flags on this. How much is it going to cost for you to get qualified to do that?

Yes. Um, the bits I've looked into, you know, you can go online and file through a course and then um that right there is

roughly probably about 2500. 2500 bucks.

Do you have the cash for that? Yes. All

right. Uh, I like that. So, no red flag

there. Um, and is the market saturated?

Is the market moderate as it relates to people out there that are your competitors? Uh, or is there hardly anybody doing it? Um, in my micro area,

there's there's two. And, um, they, you

know, honestly, the quality of the work they do is not very well. And, you know,

something I actually seen an issue when I was working in the trade still. Okay.

So, you've heard this from viable sources that these guys or gals aren't doing a good job.

Yes. And even seen it myself. Are they covered up in business or are they what's their business like? The flow of business.

Um, they seem to stay fairly steady. Um,

but at the same time, the exact grid of it, I'm I'm unsure. What's your gumption level as it relates to talking to realtors, bankers, mortgage pros? Are you a guy that'll get out and connect and shake people's hand, look them in the eye, and go, "I'm the newest home inspector on the block, and I come from the trades, and I'm telling you, my competition, they ain't so good. I'm fantastic. Give me a shot." Are you willing to do that?

Absolutely. All right, Jade, I ran him through my questions. I turned the balance of my time over to you. I I don't see I love that word.

Because this is a The reason I I asked that question, Tyler, is because this is a business where you, sir, are the product. That's right.

Jade and I are in that same business.

Jade's the product. I'm the product. So, you got to have that gumption necessary to to to put yourself out there. And the realtors that you want to work with are going to be the type who are doing high volume because they're going to be able to give you a lot of work.

And if they are high volume realtors, they know how to talk. They know how to command a room. they know how to, you know, their BS level is very low, right? So, it's like this guy, you know, but if you come in there and you're like, "Listen, we need to work together.

Here's why." I love that. So, my question that I the only question I wrote down, which I kind of feel like that's what we're into now, is how do you get clients?

Because it's not like you're trying to railroad anybody or ste, you know, you're not intentionally trying to like uh steal anybody's clients, but at the same time, you want the work. Does that make sense? So, it's like, how do you see yourself getting in there and kind of pulling the boat close to the dock and getting those clients?

See, that's that's one thing I'm kind of unsure of. I I don't know really where to start with it. I wasn't sure if it's something you getting get in with banks or, you know, you contact realtors or if it's just a matter of, you know, just talking to everybody you can to get your name out there. Okay. Well, it's the list that I ran through earlier, but um uh I would start with the your mortgage your mortgage companies in the area.

They're the ones that when a house is going for a refinance or the actual initial financing, uh, they are the ones that are getting the home inspector out.

I know when I've refied, the company I refied with, they're the one that chose the they have their guys and they got their gals. Okay. So, for certain for certain mortgage, I would check on the real realtor's side. I'm going to say I don't know. I think that's more of a mortgage play. Okay. Uh because again, the mortgage company are the ones, the banks, they're the ones that need to know uh what the house situation is. You

know, now realtors do it as well. I'm not saying realtors don't, but I'm saying realtors and mortgage companies when they do refinancing, they'll have a uh I'm sorry, I've confused the whole situation. You're talking about home inspection. I apologize. I got in my head home appraisal. Sorry. Mortgage companies are appraisers. That's right.

Okay. Home inspection is realtor. You're right. I I got my brain just got all cobwebby. That's all right, Ken. I got the broom out. You're all swept clean.

Appraisals. So, home appraisers. That's

different than the home inspector. So, realtors, realtors, realtors. And hey, listen, can we tell them, Tyler, if I were you, I'd start with the with the website ramseyolutions.com and find the find our those pros. That's it. The realtor pros right there. Start calling them and go, I called the Ramsay show.

I'm a big Ramsay listener.

and you are a trusted pro. Can we talk?

Can I help you? So, that's where I would go. Look at this guy. Come on, Kim. I had to get the cobwebs out of the way first. It's what he does. It's what he does.

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This is the Ramsay Show alongside Jake Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is8 825 5225LE8825-55225.

Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona. Jonathan is there. Jonathan, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Um, not quite sure where to start. Uh,

to be brief, uh, I'm 24 with two kids of

my own. My fiance has two kids from a past relationship.

Uh, and I am the only one that works at

the the moment. Um, and it just seems like I'm always drowning. Uh, I come from a family that has never really been

financially stable. So, I don't even

know where to start to begin to get out of this like drowning feeling. Yeah,

man. I'm so sorry. But can I just tell you real quick before we go into this? I I sense in you a guy who wants to change his family tree. I sense in you a guy who is busting his tail and trying to do right by those little ones. And uh I wanted to encourage you because I I think you've got I think you've got a lot of character and I love the fact that you're calling and asking for help.

It's a big deal to go I need help and I I wanna I just felt like you needed to hear that. You're not a failure and uh you are going to be able to figure this out and we're going to help today. You got me? Yeah. Couple quick things here.

I'm going to turn you over to Jade. All right. So we're going to try to do as much as we can in a quick amount of time. Um number one, what are you doing and what is your income?

Uh, I work in the HVAC industry. Uh, and

my yearly income is around 60 to 80 on a

good year. Okay, that's not bad. So, we've got somewhere between 60 to 80,000 gross. And um, are all four, if I heard

you right, you've got two kids and your and your girlfriend or fiance has is she is your fiance or No. Yes, she's fiance.

Okay. I thought I heard that. Okay. She's got are you got all four kids staying with you guys all the time? Yes.

Okay. Okay. So, she's she's at home taking care of the kids. Yeah. Gotcha.

Okay. Um and what kind of debt do you have?

Uh we're in about 23,000 in a minivan.

Now, wait a second. When you say when you say we did you both sign on to that deal? Yes. Yeah, we did. All right. Uh

and it's 23,000 on a minivan. Yeah.

Okay. What other debt do you have? And then I have about I'd say 1,600 in collections and credit

cards and then she has around

say 600 to a,000 in collections and

credit cards. That's it. Yeah. You got

any money in the bank at all?

No. Um I did but we had to go through it

hit some unfortunate times. So yeah. No, it's cleared out. What do you mean by unfortunate times? Give me 20 seconds on that. Uh, I lost my job, my last job

where I it was great money, good work.

Uh, I was able to save up around four to five grand and then once I got laid off from that company, we had to use that to pay keep our bills. Was that HVAC work as well or something different? Yeah.

No, it was HVAC. Did you don't have to tell us, but did was this something you did? Yeah. Did you learn Did you learn

from it? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Um, so

what that tells me though is that you have more income potential in that industry because you were clearly working for somebody else making more. What were you making when you were with them? Uh, about 96 grand a year. So So

what would need to be true for you to get back to that?

Uh,

honestly find a different company. Okay.

But it's possible. Yes or no? Yes. Okay.

I just want to leave that there. Yeah, let's get to it. Uh I I always like to kind of ask all the questions. I'm kind of like the general doctor and then she's a specialist and so she kind of sits over there and she's like rubbing her chin. You filled out the paperwork for me, kid. Yeah, that's what I have.

Let's be honest. I'm the intake nurse.

That's not true. No, but I I I think this is doable, Jade. I do, too. I like I I like what you just said about the opportunity to make more.

And if I'm you, I'm getting on that today. Can What's the first step? Where's Where do you go about that? It's a budget.

No, I'm talking about for him to find the job. Oh, sorry. I apologize. You see where I was at?

You you had already clocked out. Well, no, because they know because they've not done it. They they have no idea where their money's coming and going. That's the issue.

Uh here's what I would say, uh Jonathan, because you're in the trades of HVAC. Um you don't have to stay at this current company for a 10. I mean, you go to the best situation that you can go to. So, I would be uh really because you're stable now.

learned your lesson from the last one.

HVAC can make really, really good money and so you're looking everywhere all the time until the next opportunity comes and the minute it shows up, walk right to it. Love that. Um, so that's homework

number one is we're looking for that. Homework number two is you do need a budget. We're going to make sure you get set up with an every dollar budget. It's the best way to budget because you're going to see all the things that you're spending money on and you're going to be able to pinpoint, okay, where's an area of concern? Where's an area I can cut back on? Um maybe there's more at our

disposal than we realize, but it's just been going out to things. I don't know, Door Dash, Instacart, whatever. So, we're going to give you the the budget. I also wanted to know, um what's your living situation? Are you renting? Do do you have a house together? Tell us about that. Uh we're renting. Okay. And what do you pay every month for rent? Uh just

under two grand, so 1980. Okay. That's a that's a squeeze. Um not going to lie.

And I know you've got the kiddos, but you know, you you need to find something that's more along the like $1,400 $1,300

area so that it's not squeezing you so much cuz you told me you make $500 to $6,000 a month. And so assuming, you

know, it's somewhere right in the middle. Yeah. 13,400 is really your max.

Um, so I'd be thinking through what that could mean because unless you see a

pathway quickly to earn more money, this

rent is going to continue to squeeze you. Um, the van, what's the van worth?

You owe 23. What's it worth? Uh, it's about 21. Okay. I'd be looking at getting out of that and into something a little less expensive. Um, take a a couple months and save up the difference so you're not upside down and get out of that van and and get it or go over to the credit union and say, "Hey, the the van is worth 23 or I owe 23. It's worth 21. Can I get a $2,000 loan and can we

add like seven or eight to it so that I can get something else?" Jonathan, listen real quick to what she just said, okay? This is doable. You bust it, go to a credit union or something, get a different loan, you know, whatever we got to do. Pay this thing off. Um because you're going to save yourself a lot of money. What's the car payment on that?

You guys don't want to know. We do want to know. I know. That's why I'm asking.

741. Too much. Uh 783 bucks a month. All

right. So Jade, I I tell him how to get rid of that car because that is a $700 raise. This is the how to. The howto is

the first place I want you to try to go to is a credit union because they're going to care about the fact that you're a human being. But wherever you end up going to get this loan, I want you to get this loan. Okay? So, what you're doing here is you have to pay $23,000 to

get clear on this, but it's only worth 21, right? And so, you need to clear that $2,000 difference. That's what you're going to get the loan for so that when it comes time to pay this off, you actually get the title, right? That's that's or the you can give the person the title who buys it. That's what we're talking about. Um Okay. But then you're without a car, right? And so the idea is don't just get the loan for 2,000. Get it for a little bit more. Maybe$7,000.

Start looking online tonight and see what can I get that'll get us from point A to point B. This is temporary. This is not forever. This might be for a year and a half until you can get, you know, later on add some more money with it and trade up.

Okay. But look for an $8,000 car and now you're in for $10,000 instead of $23,000. You see what I did there? And now instead of paying $783 a month, if you can get in with a credit union with a better interest rate, maybe you're only paying 300 a month.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's what we want to do with the car, with these credit cards and collections. Let's settle them.

Okay? And whenever you settle them, you're calling them up and saying, "Hey, I know it says I owe you 2,000 today. I can give you 700.

or leave it." That kind of thing. and you get it in writing first and they're going to settle with you. If it's already gone to collections, they will settle, but you're gonna have to be like white on rice. Like, you're gonna have to be on them calling all the time because if you dealt with Betty before and Betty didn't do it, call back and talk to Shirley.

And if Shirley won't do it, talk back. Call back and talk to Heather. Somebody's going to do it for you. But you have to do your due diligence and stay on top of this.

Yeah, Jonathan, you can do this. Uh hang on the line. We're going to get you in every dollar. Please just start plugging the numbers into this thing. It's so intuitive. It's so simple and it's a gamecher cuz you will now know where your money is going. And that is half the battle. What Jay just did for you is a huge victory to get out of that car payment and on the path to building prosperity for those kiddos. You can do this, Jonathan. We're here to help. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman.88255225

is the number. For our scripture today comes from Hebrews 4:16.

Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. I feel like that should be the verse for all budget meetings.

Yeah, you're probably Let us approach this budget meeting with grace and

confidence so we'll receive mercy.

That's pretty good. And our quote of the day from Mark Twain.

A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval.

Classic. The man was the man was deep.

Wow. He would have owned Twitter if they if it was a thing back then. That that's got a lot of depth to it. Good stuff there. All right. Paul is joining us now in Edmonton, Alberta. Paul, you are on

the Ramsay Show. How can we help? Thank you so much for taking my call. How are you today? We're good. How can we help you? Um, so I recently got a raise at my

job. Um, I doubled my salary. Uh, I just

need you to quickly Google um, my currency. Uh, I make 37,000 US. Okay.

Uh, a year. Um, it's not a today

purchase, but down the line, the reason I called was, is it worthy and a worthy investment to purchase some farmland and

then lease it to farmers as like a I don't want to say passive income, but like as another source of income. All right, before we answer that, I'm guessing you've done enough research uh to answer this question. So, give me

an an example of some acreage

and and how much you could lease it for to a farmer in this scenario. What kind of real revenue are we talking about?

Have you run the numbers?

Um, I just know I just only heard about like this kind of format through some of my friends like they worked with farmers in the past and then like I had another friend that leased uh their farmland to like uh farmers. So, it's like kind of been a like a short thing that kind of I got introduced to. So, I wouldn't have the numbers go. So, you get my point in asking this question before we get to the financial side of this. There's just the the good oldfashioned common sense.

And so, uh it's like somebody saying, "Should I buy a business?" Well, we want to look at your financial situation and we're going to dive into that. But, but we want to also go what's the business and does it have viability and have you done a business study? And so in this situation, this will not be hard for you, but you need to go become an expert in the numbers. In other words, um it's got to be this amount of acreage and then based on that and it's got to have this kind of soil quality and then based on that and you got to be able to buy it.

Well, you know, we're going to get to that part, but I'm just saying like even if financially you can do it, which you're going to coach him on.

smart investment even if you're in position to do so, which I don't think you are. But that that's my little quick warning. I want Jay to jump in on on your financial situation. And I'm getting in King Coleman territory here.

I don't sense that it's necessarily something you'd be passionate about. It sounds like something you just heard some folks doing. That's a good point.

And it's like, oh, maybe that can work for me. And I think that could also be a bit of a at least an I'll call it an orange flag. And can we also say real quick, there's no such thing as passive income. No. No, it doesn't exist. That's

a lie. Um yeah, for sure. So, uh, back

on to the other side, if we do, let let's say let's just pretend for for

I can't say what I was going to say.

Let's just pretend that you had vetted this out and you had some numbers, okay?

And you said, "Yeah, I've looked into this. I can make x amount of dollars." Then my next question to you would have been, "Okay, what's it cost to buy these acres of land?" And then if you would have said, "Well, Jade, it's going to cost me uh $400,000 to get the land, da da da da, because I need at least this many acres." And I would have said, "Okay, how are you going to pay for it?" And so I think that's where we get into the numbers nitty-gritty of this, which is you're making 37,000 a year.

I would never tell you to invest in 400,000 and go into debt for it. I would say the first line of your investing needs to be you investing 15% of your income and that's steady and that's like your kind of country road of investing. And then on down the road, if there's other things that you're interested like real estate or land, that sort of thing, I would say, listen, the idea is to pay cash for it. And that's really, really, really the best way to purchase um land and real estate is in cash.

So, I like that you're thinking about more ways to earn money. I like that you're kind of creative in what that could be. It's not just, I don't know, kind of the typical route, which is cool.

It was never something that I was going to put like a like be in debt for. It was always going to be something that it would be a cash transaction, but that would be like 10 years. Like it's not great. I love your home.

I don't have that money today. I don't have that money today. I love the question. It would just be some It would just be something that like Yeah.

Um, you know, given with the recent uh bump in income and then like I've been already investing on the side and whatnot. Okay, good. It's not. Yeah.

Paul, I was just telling Jade this uh during the show breaks today. I I'm I'm kicking around an idea. A friend brought me an investment opportunity.

I've had some really smart guys that have done things like this before that are my friends and I'm going take a look at this. What questions do I need to be asking? So the advice I'm giving you, I'm actually taking and I I I would never want to make any kind of investment. Yeah. That I even and what's this is what we teach by the way in mutual funds everything. We want you to sit with a smart investor pro multiple

people. uh who do you connect with?

Chemistry, do they have a heart of a teacher? Do you understand what you're doing so that you can make your decision? They're not telling you what to do. You are telling them what you'd like them to do with your money. And so this thing on farmland, my advice is just do your homework and know it inside and out. Know what the risks are. Uh know what the upside is and so that uh

when the time comes and you've got cash

and and you can do it. So really appreciate the call, young man. I I love the forward thinking. Uh, let's get in one more quick call.

Andrew is joining us in Indianapolis, Indiana. Andrew, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. You bet.

We got about three minutes, so make it fast. All right, I'll make it quick. I just wanted your guys' opinion on giving, say, friends or family financial advice. I was approached by my mother-in-law, gave her some advice.

She's kind of thinking about taking it, then the more I talk to her. Well, the key is is she approached you. My answer is don't give it unless they ask for it.

Yeah, good for you. It seems like a no it seems like a no-brainer based off what I've learned from you guys, and I absolutely appreciate that. But part of me is is going, "Well, if she does it and doesn't do it right and it doesn't work out, then she comes back to me and says, "Hey, you you told me to do this." Listen, that's our job every day, kid.

And I Yeah, but it's interesting that you say that because the advice that we give on here, if somebody does it the way we tell them to, then we're not worried about something. So, what what was the advice that you gave her?

Well, she's got a she's paid a car payment and miraculously somehow, I'm not sure how, she timed it just right, she's got a lot of equity in said car.

Um, but also has about the same amount of credit card debt. And she doesn't really drive much. And the numbers are

there to make it work to sell this car, pay off the credit card debt, buy a $4 or $5,000 car to do the minimal driving that she does, and then pile up that money to maybe buy a better car or work on her mortgage. The only way that doesn't work out is if the $4 to $5,000 car she buys is a lemon. So, this is where you as a son-in-law can get massive son-in-law points and go, "Hey, I will do the leg work or help you get a mechanic who would be willing to see said cars and don't buy any $4 to $5,000 car that the person won't let you take it to the mechanic and and you just walk her through that and guard." I just don't see how that turns out bad.

Do you? Um, no, I don't.

really don't. It's It's really up to how they work out the advice and if they take it to the letter and to the tea.

Yeah. And that's where we're struggling. She keeps sending me links for cars that are like eight or 9,000. I say you you can't afford that.

You need to lower your budget. I mean, the hard part for for where you're sitting is again, if they've asked for advice, you offer you offer the advice. And then after that, there there comes a time where you do kind of have to go, okay, now my hands are off of it. If you choose to do it, great.

If you don't, if you need help, I'm I'm here to help you.

cannot be what I call an askshole. Boy, I'm glad you slowed that down. Because an askshole, not you. An is there a person who asks the same thing over and over and over to avoid actually doing? Okay. And that's

annoying. And so if you feel like it's getting to the point where this person is being an ask hole, see you see how I

stepped in there. Then you go, okay, I've given you up to you what you do next. I like that. I think that needs to be your next little product.

I think it needs to be some type of a money bumper sticker that you sell, Jade, in your store. A t-shirt. I think a lot of people would like to wear that. I'm afraid to say it cuz I know I'll mess it up and the FCC will not be happy.

We hit that K pretty hard. We did. Hey, thanks for the call, Andrew. Thank you, Jade, for always being awesome.

Thank you, Kelly, and the team for keeping us on the air. Thank you, America. This is your show.

[Music]

[Music] Heat.

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## 118. No Matter Your Income, You Can Still Build Wealth | May 28, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:30:07 |

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life feels overwhelming, therapy can help you slow down, think clearly, and move forward. Visit betterhelp.com/ramsey to get 10% off.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw, number one bestselling [music] author. Ramsay personality is my co-host today. Paula

is in San Francisco. Hey Paula, how are you? >> Hey, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so my mother-in-law and husband put his name on all her assets before we got married because my husband's father passed away. Um, recently we have an issue where since my husband's name was on her car, she was sued for a car accident, which means that he was also sued. We're trying to dissolve those agreements both with her, but we're getting some push back. We can't get copies. So, we need some help getting some financial freedom from my mother-in-law.

Wow. Okay. So, you said there were agreements. What do you mean?

>> Uh, so they decided to put his name on all her assets. >> Yeah, I got that. >> The cars, the houses, the insurance. He signed all the paperwork uh to be on the mortgage, on the title, the deeds, etc.

>> Mhm. You can't add yourself to a mortgage.

>> Okay. >> So, he did not do that. Um Huh.

Okay. Okay. He helped her purchase a home and so he was uh part of that.

>> Okay. Then if it was part of the purchase, he could be on the mortgage with her. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. And then they refinanced the

original home and so he's on those documents. >> Oh boy. >> So he was obviously trying to help her, right? >> Correct. >> And why did they think he needed his name on everything in order to help her?

>> She did not have a trust in place. So, she was fearful that if something happened to her, the family wouldn't keep anything.

>> The family wouldn't get anything.

>> It would go into probate, things like that. >> What's she worth? >> Of course, it goes into probate. That's But that doesn't mean the family doesn't get anything. All you need is a will.

You don't have to have a trust. >> What's her net worth?

>> Uh, do you know your mom's net worth?

>> I would not quite sure.

>> Well, give us a ballpark. Is it >> Is she a multi-millionaire? >> Yeah. >> No. No, she is not. Okay.

>> She she works for an insurance company.

>> Okay. All right. Um

and so the net result is is that they um

he was trying to do a really nice thing and she was trying to protect but they did not get good advice and so they did a whole stupid thing which is put his name on everything and that was really stupid. >> And that's and now you got sued when she had a car wreck. >> How much is she being sued for?

Uh, I believe about $50,000.

>> Oh my gosh. And she didn't have insurance. >> She didn't have adequate insurance. >> She does. It's going to go through insurance, but because my husband's name is on her vehicle, he is named in that lawsuit as well. >> Yeah, he has to be. Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. And now that we're married, we eventually want to buy our own home. Um, so our goal is to completely dissolve these agreements with her.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, the 50,000 insurance is going to pay eventually. You just don't like that his name is tied up in it. >> Yeah. She wants his name off of everything. >> So, you want to go through and take his name off of everything.

>> Yes. Yes. >> It's going to be very difficult. It's be very complicated. Um, and you're going

to need legal advice. Okay. So, each item will be different. Okay. A bank

account's very simple. He can go to the bank and have his name removed. Very easy. Okay. A mortgage is impossible. He

can't get his name off of it. So, she has to refinance her home to get a new mortgage to get his name off of it. and you'll have to probably pay the cost of the refinance because you're the one requesting to do this.

Very [clears throat] complicated. Uh the car title, she can just sign uh I mean

[snorts] he can sign an affidavit and have his name taken off of the car title. Uh but she'll have to sign all of it. Is she refusing to cooperate in this idea? >> Um she's okay to remove his name off the car title, but she does not want to refinance her homes right now, so she won't remove him from the homes. >> Yeah, that >> that's fair. I can understand why.

>> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, if you offer to pay for the pay pay for the refinance cost and the interest rate is the same or less, it would benefit her to refinance it.

>> Okay. >> And uh but she doesn't want to refinance it because she won't have to pay for it, >> right? >> Um and

I was going to say, what is what is her current interest rate? Do you know?

>> Uh I think it was around 3%.

>> Yeah. She's not going to refinance. It's not going to work. >> Right. Right. >> Um, >> yeah. Wow, >> that's tough. >> All right. You know what I would do is just make a list of stuff that has his name on it and say, "What is the solution with each of these things?" There's not one simple, you can't sign one simple document. It does everything.

You're going to have to go to each situation and have his name removed where you can. um and uh uh until it's

beneficial for her to remove take, you

know, interest rate wise and so forth, she's not going to you're not getting off that mortgage, >> right? >> Um wow. Um and your husband and his mom are both

willing to do all of this. They just don't know how. Is that what you're saying? >> Um my mother-in-law would like to wait 5

years or so. Sometimes she goes back and forth with if that's what she truly wants to do. But the the hope is that in 5 years she will refinance so that we can go purchase our own home.

>> Mhm. Well, I mean, as far as the other property, other things go, she's willing to take his name off.

>> Yeah. Uh car title. Yes.

>> Well, I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff. You mentioned car title, you mentioned insurance policies, you mentioned bank accounts, you mentioned Right. >> Yes. So, since he is um on both the

homes, she says that she cannot remove him from the home insurance. We did remove ourselves. We're trying to remove ourselves from her car insurance currently. >> Mhm.

>> Wow.

That's true. I mean, you don't you if you're on the mortgage, you want to be on the home insurance in case it burns, you don't get stuck with the mortgage, >> right? >> So, your husband does want to stay on that insurance. That's accurate.

>> Yeah. So, um,

okay. So, really what we did did is is

that they did they were trying to do a smart thing and they did it in a dumb way, both of them. Um, in a way that no

one would recommend if they'd gotten any estate planning advice at all. It [snorts] would not have been hard to solve this. Um, and so, but there's no

bad malice here. She's not um I mean she

didn't set out to do harm to her son and he certainly didn't set out to do harm to his mom, >> right? >> So there's no um there shouldn't be any

drama here. Uh you just got to clean you just got to go through and clean it up.

>> Uh other than the fact that you got sued, but I mean that's not her fault.

Actually, it's your husband's fault. He signed up on a car that he shouldn't have. >> I mean the two houses is going to be the pain in the neck. Yeah, that's that's going to be the hard thing is getting rid of that and you know is just watch interest rates and as interest rates come down or you know the balance on the mortgage comes down, pay off the stinking mortgage.

>> Got to believe I got to believe she's close to >> you know I don't know something like that.

get get my name off of it. >> Yep. >> And that's that happens a lot of times where there's a divorce. >> Uhhuh. and uh they didn't bother to get the name off the mortgage and then five years later the divorced husband or wife's got a name hang out over here then they'll have to go >> as a negotiation pay to pay for the refinance to get their name off.

>> Um yeah, but um yeah, this is a classic

thing of what we call street law, which is a bunch of people sitting around a campfire with an opinion about what you should do on something that have absolutely NO FREAKING IDEA what they're doing. And this guy signed up for a mess.

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Dominic is in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hi, Dominic. How are you?

>> Hello. I'm doing well. I hope you guys are. >> We are. What's up?

>> Uh, so my father, so first of all, I'm

38 years old. I've got a 19-year-old son and my father and I haven't always had a great relationship, but we we've got a better one now. And we agreed that he

would help my son buy a car. Um, we can afford to buy him the car, but he wanted to step in and help out his grandson.

And um, we didn't really have an agreement set on how much the car would be. And uh, he ended up buying him a

Dodge Challenger, [laughter] which um, it was about $62,000.

Uh, my father. >> How old is your You have a 19year-old son with a $62,000 car.

>> Yeah. >> Is that more expensive than your than your car?

>> It is. It is. I I still drive my Prius from college to [laughter] be honest.

>> Wow. >> Um, >> what does your what does your 19-year-old son make? How much does he make? Does he work? >> He actually does have his own income.

He's still living with us, but he flips furniture on um him and his sister flip furniture on Facebook Marketplace.

So, I'd say he makes between5

and $6,000 a month.

>> Profit?

>> Yes. Profit. >> Wow. >> That's after he's gone and and purchased the furniture. Okay. >> Um and bought lacquers and bought finished and painted and bought new handles for everything.

>> Okay. >> Great. And so this bothers you. It's too much. You feel like it's too much car for a 19-year-old, right?

>> Well, let me let me also make this clear. We when he turned 16, we bought him a Civic. And in October of last

year, he totaled the Civic.

Um, and he had done he had begun to go

into the car space. He had done a lot of bolt-on. Uh, and he had just finally gotten under the hood and and started to do work on his car, which is why I think he was so eager to get a more powerful car. But that also has my wife and I worried because, you know, he has just total a car which struggles to get up to 100. >> Did he total it being reckless or did he total it in truly it was truly an accident?

>> Uh, we are not sure if you if you if you if you trust him. Uh, a squirrel ran across the road. But, um, >> yeah, cuz squirrels always total civics.

>> No. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, yeah. Uh, squirrel, it's

the ultimate. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Uh, [sighs and gasps] okay.

>> So, I also want to make two two things clear really quickly. So the interest on the car, so his his grandfather put down

the down payment, which I'm still not totally sure how much it was, but the interest is at 21%. And

>> so your father does not have good

judgment on financial matters.

That's being nice.

Your father is did an idiotic, stupid

deal in an effort to be a blessing to his 19-year-old grandson, but instead cursed him by putting in him him into a

car with a ridiculously high interest rate and that is way too expensive for a guy that makes $4,000 a month living in his parents' home flipping furniture.

Okay, so your dad is out of the equation. He no longer gets a vote.

Okay. Whose name is the title in?

>> Um, my my father co-signed for the car,

but it's my >> my son's car. >> Yeah. Okay. If I were to advise your 19-year-old son, it would be to sell the car as fast as he possibly can

because he's probably going to lose some money on it depending on how much of a down payment there was. But, I'm guessing there wasn't much of a down payment. This car is too expensive for

anyone that makes, you know,00 [clears throat] makes 5,000 bucks a month. >> You shouldn't be having a car that's equal to your annual income, regardless of whether it's paid for or not. It's ridiculous. It's a fabulous vehicle.

It's a fun muscle car, but that's irrelevant. Okay. Um, and he's at 21%

interest.

And you're worried about his safety. Um, I'm not as worried about his safety. I'm I'm not 100% sure to be worried about his safety. I'm 100% sure this deal

sucks.

It was really dumb. And I if I were

loving my 19-year-old grandson well or my new friend that's 19 years old, I would say, "My friend, sell this car as quickly as you can and limit the damage that it's going to do to your life. Your grandfather's sweet, but he's not smart." Mhm.

>> That's what I would tell your 19-year-old as fast as he can get rid of it. Now, he don't want a salad and he's

got >> Yeah. >> Bozo over here that can't do math whispering in his ear that this is okay.

>> Who's paying the payment? Bozo or your son?

>> U My son is paying the payment and my grandfather agreed to help him and I I

we my wife and I together make enough to absorb the cost of the payment. Oh, no.

There's no reason for you to.

>> I think that >> he bought a car he can't afford.

>> Yeah. And you're the parent and he still lives at home. So, you do get to say this is not going to work. You get to say that. >> Yeah. And it's not it's not a it's not a I'm mad at somebody thing if I'm you.

It's honey, I love you. This is bringing harm to you. And I really wouldn't even bring up the totling the car and safety thing. It's just way too expensive a car and way ridiculous interest rate.

Yeah, >> it's just it's just su it's financially stupid. >> And if you're if you've set up a a standard in your household that we don't borrow money and we don't go into debt for cars, I think that fuels that argument even more, which is I can't advise you to do. This is just not how we live our lives and this is not how we've taught you to live yours. >> Yeah.

And I I'm sorry I didn't keep my hand in the deal and keep it from happening.

Challenger at 21%.

But you're totaling your whole life now as a result of totaling your Civic. And this is just not there's just nothing smart here. >> Oh gosh.

>> But this is a stareyed guy who, you know, I don't know what's going on with Grandpa, but um he he ain't got any smarter as he got older.

We can tell that >> I'm assuming the the deposit wasn't enough to bring us back.

>> Probably not. You're probably in the hole >> from being underwater. Yeah. So, so do we have to go to my father and do >> No, I don't think your father's going to do either. >> No, I think you have to I think that's a stupid tax you guys are going to have to >> somebody's going to have to pay. Junior's going to have to pay it, but Junior doesn't have any money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm guessing you're going to lose a little money on it, but I don't know how much. He's going to lose a little money. You're not really technically in the deal, so you're not technically responsible, but I am going to say you live under my roof. If we're not playing stupid games and expect anything except stupid prizes.

>> Yeah, this is this is ludicrous.

>> Crazy. >> This is like Look up crazy in the column and you'll see a picture of this car.

>> And well, the car notes probably almost a,000 bucks a month. >> Yeah. Yeah. At least >> Wow. >> 21% on 62 grand.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hello.

>> We or they financed it for 18 years, you know. It doesn't matter. because we want to make sure we prolong this pain as long as we possibly can. Yeah. So,

interesting thing that um Proverbs 17:18 says, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another." Um the New Contemporary English version, the CEV, says it's stupid to cosign

alone. >> Yeah, >> that's what the Bible says.

So, uh, anytime you're thinking you're being a blessing to someone by co-signing the loan for them, you're not. >> No, there's you're being stupid.

>> The whole reason you would need a co-signer is a bank looked at that person and said, "There's no way I would lend you the money. I don't think that you can pay it." >> Yeah. I mean, bank looks at a 19-year-old who flips furniture and lives in his mother's basement >> and says, "I don't think this is a worthy credit, >> so we're not going to do it.

to gig you. We're going to screw you. So car dealer, we're going to screw the 19-year-old. And car and bank, we're going to screw the 19-year-old. And grandpa says, I'll help.

>> Wow. Thinking he's being a blessing.

>> [music]

>> Heat.

Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

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There you go. Benjamin is with us in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Hi, Benjamin.

How are you?

>> Hey, doing wonderful Dave. Thanks for taking my call this afternoon. >> Certainly, sir. How can we help?

Uh, well, me and my wife are having just a mild financial disagreement and um, we're trying to put the puzzles together to see where we should invest some money or what we should do with it.

>> Cool. How long y'all been married?

>> We've been married for 10 years.

>> Awesome. How old are y'all?

>> Uh, 38 and 37.

>> Cool. Very cool. So, tell me about the disagreement.

>> Um, well, right now, um, I own a

construction company and, uh, we've been successful. Um, we've paid off all our debt. besides our mortgage and um I really haven't tried to attack my mortgage just because I am locked in at a 2.5% interest rate and um rather than

paying it off, I'm investing money in rental properties trying to make a passive income. I've invested in silver and just a few other things to where, you know, when time comes to retire, I've got a passive income coming in that's taking care of me and not too concerned about the 2.5% interest rate being I don't think we'll ever see it again. Um, we're at the point now to where I could pay the house off, but Oh, you have the money. Main point I I we do.

We have the money.

>> Uh, the balance is about 200,000 currently. >> Well, you are doing great, Benjamin.

Congratulations.

>> Thank you. I appreciate it.

>> Okay. >> And that that's our decision. She believes that we should go ahead and pay that off. and um you know me personally I believe we could purchase some more properties. >> Why does she believe you should pay it off? What's her reasoning behind that?

>> Um just stress more just knowing that we don't owe on anything. You know, there's nothing tying us down. And u my mindset is that we could invest in more properties. I could have my guys go in and fix it up. We could rent it out and the rent could pay for our mortgage and

then we've got more assets, you know, in time. >> How long ago were you broke before and you didn't have 200 and you had debt still?

>> Uh, >> five years, >> I would say within the last five years.

Yeah. We've really turned things around.

>> Yeah. And your construction business has blossomed during that five years, too.

Correct. >> It it has. We've been truly blessed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. because it's been the time it should have and that five years has been excellent for your business. Um versus not excellent for construction which has been some other times in our past, right? But right now it's making hay while the sunshines. So very cool.

Okay. Well, uh you called us and I'm

guessing you probably already knew what we were going to say.

>> Well, my wife knew what you were going to say. >> Oh, you you've been [laughter] set up, Benjamin. You've been set up. Okay.

Okay. Well, let me give you a little background as to why she set you up then and but and be nice to you. Okay.

[laughter] >> So, when I was uh 23,

my mom and dad run the real estate and construction business. And I got my real estate license when I was 18. And I love real estate investing. And when I was 23, I started buying everything in sight and anything that I could make a return on. And I had a I have a degree in real estate and finance from the University of Tennessee. And so I was all in on

this stuff. I'm 65 now, by the way. But um that I was 23. And so by the time I was 26, I had $4 million worth of real estate with a million dollar net worth.

And it was cash flowing like crazy. I mean, I made good money on it. And but I had a lot of lot of it on short-term notes because I was flipping before there was cable TV or before there was Chip and Joanna. They weren't even born.

And so um you know, this is where we were, right? And and so I became a millionaire by the time I was 26 years old doing the kind of thing you're talking about. Uh but I did it super poorly. Uh a little differently than you're describing, but I'm telling you this for a story for a reason. Um then

the [snorts] bank uh got sold and they called our 90-day notes that we had outstanding. And that began a crash that took two and a half years for us to lose everything we owned. And we were sued and foreclosed on and bankrupt by the time I was 28 with a brand new baby and a toddler. 10 years younger than you are now. And uh in that process, I started

learning uh what grandma with common

sense says about money and what the Bible says about money. And both of those say don't borrow money. But I with my finance degree was looking at it through the lens you're looking at it at the math and saying, "Well, I got a 2 and a half% mortgage. Why would I ever get rid of that? I'm sure you're trying to create this this stream of rental income." Um but what I left out in my

analysis and therefore what you're also leaving out in your analysis is risk.

Um you're uh 100% of the time that you

have debt there is risk. More debt equals more risk.

And so a way to emotionally feel that

right now in this discussion is to say, "Hey Benjamin, what if your house was paid for and you had the opport" and you didn't have $200,000 in the bank and you had the opportunity to go borrow $200,000 against your paid for home at

2.5%.

Would you go do that? And you might because you've kind of figured out two and a half you think is a great rate and it is a great rate. Um, but you also that if you look at it that way, you might also go kind of gulp.

>> You >> like your stomach kind of when I when I say that I'm going to go borrow against my paid for home. There's something in your stomach kind of moves around. You see what I'm saying?

>> No, I I see exactly what you're saying.

>> It's a physical reaction to risk. And all that I did there was what's called a sunk cost analysis. And that is a to reverse the discussion and see if it

feels any different. And if you reverse the discussion, you say a paid for house, I'm going to go borrow. It's the same thing as I'm not going to pay it off so that I can go buy rentals. It's

instead instead of borrowing on my paid for home to go buy rentals, not pay it off to go buy paid for rentals is the exact same mathematical equation. But thinking about it through a different lens makes your stomach go up in your throat instead of your brain going, "Oh, I've got two and a half%.

I'm making money on that." Um, so all of that to say, you called the show where we're always going to tell you to pay off your mortgage. Your wife set you up.

[laughter] >> Okay. 100% of the time. and I own uh

several hundred million dollars in real estate that is paid for today. I recovered way vastly recovered from my

old bankrupt days and um you know and I

love real estate. So I want you to own some rental property and I think you're in a great business with the a joining business with uh construction. But let me tell you what will happen to complete my sales pitch on this. Okay. When you

have zero debt of any kind,

your construction business will flourish even more. And here's why. There's

nothing gn knowing anywhere at the back of your skull saying, "I got to take this questionable job cuz I got to have cash flow." Instead, you look at a questionable job and go that juice ain't worth the squeeze. I'm going over and you're going to turn down crazy customers. You're going to turn down situations where you're going to go out over your skis and you're pushing too hard. Instead, you're going to you and I've experienced this in my business.

And it's it's increased my prosperity.

Those two things don't seem to be directly connected, but they are yet connected. Oh, here's another one.

Physically, people have less physical ailments when

they're not carrying any debt. It

changes the composture or the composite of your body because your anxiety level is way down. So, I'm going to sell you as hard as I can to follow your wife's uh leading there. Agreed. Agreed. Happy

wife, happy life.

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[music]

>> [music]

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Jade, I feel like I'm supposed to uh

recap um one other thing and that is that um

real estate. If you if you come on this show or if I'm having an interaction with you anywhere and you tell me you want to invest in real estate as pass to create passive income, um what I'm going to realize immediately is that you don't know what the flip you're doing >> cuz you said passive >> cuz you act like real estate creates passive income. So if you've ever been a landlord, you know that it's there's nothing passive about it.

If you've ever owned rental property, there's zero passivity involved. So,

when people say real estate creates passive income, what that tells me is they've been getting financial advice from some on TikTok.

>> That's what that tells me. Not that they've actually been in the real estate business. Okay? I've owned rental real

estate longer than most of you calling have been alive.

And that means I'm old, but it also means I'm experienced. And you know what you get from experience?

>> Wisdom. >> Scars. [laughter] >> Okay, I'll go with scars.

>> I'll call it scars. >> So, from doing stupid stuff. And uh so

I've done I've seen it all and done it all. I think with landlording, whether it's commercial properties that are retail with a pizza place or uh a

CrossFit gym or uh whether it's a

condominium and uh the guy decides he's going to use his wife as a punching bag and he gets put in jail and she has two little kids and now they can't pay their rent >> and I'm the landlord. Now, what am I supposed to do with her? Yeah. So, this you want to call that passive, that makes you dumb >> or at a minimum inexperienced. Okay. So,

you don't know what passive means.

Passive means you don't have to do any.

You want passive. Put your money in a mutual fund and they will just send you an email. Great. Great. [clears throat] >> And tell you what happened. You don't have to do anything. That that's passive. >> And so re there's nothing passive about real estate. Period. I even own a piece

of ground that has nothing on it

>> and it's still work. And the tree fell

across the neighbor's fence the other day and he called me and said, "Your tree is blocking my driveway." It's not even passive. [laughter] A freaking blank piece of ground is not even passive. >> Shouldn't have had that tree on it, Dave. >> So, I mean, it's like, and he was right.

So, we sent a guy over with a chainsaw and got the guy's driveway back, right?

But oh my god, this idea that that there's, you know, but the So, don't

listen to someone who says real estate is passive. This is someone that's selling you crap or don't know what they're doing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's another way to have an income stream. >> It is an income stream. It is an alternative income stream. And I love it. I've actually more a higher percentage of my net worth is in real estate paid for, >> no mortgages, than is in mutual funds.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. But I'm adept at and careful with and understand and have a management company that manages our real estate, you know, and so but it's not passive.

>> What's your uh what's your opinion on Airbnbs and things like that? That aren't just a direct >> That's not even That's not even rental property. You opened a You got in the hotel business. >> Hotel business. >> If you don't believe me, figure out how many maids you have to hire change them sheets every day when those people leave. >> Yeah. And all the all the the stuff that you don't even want to talk about that you have to clean up that was left behind at the bachelorette party. Hello.

In your condo. Yeah.

>> And they they they thought that you know what happens in Nashville stays in Nu.

You left some of it in Nashville. But it didn't stay in Nashville. So we still had to clean it up after you left. And apparently you don't drink that much, girl, cuz you left some of that. Yeah.

No. This is Yeah. This is bad. So this is what Airbnb is. It's gross. That's as

difficult as it's gonna get. >> If you might as well buy you a little Hotel 6 >> and go, [clears throat] I'm in the hotel business. At least then you're admitting it. Yeah. >> Instead of like, I'm maximizing a piece of rental real estate by making it Airbnb. No, you're not. You're running a hotel.

>> That's all you're doing. >> It's a shortstay hotel, a hostel

>> at best, right? I mean, that's that. So,

yeah. And be ready for disruption. uh

like 16 states have already passed laws

limiting and a lot of cities, New York City is coming down on it hard is shutting down the ability to operate a privately operated un uh certified hotel

called an Airbnb. They're shutting them down >> and so VBOs and Airbnbs are >> You think they're shortlived? >> Well, I mean, no, I don't I think they're going to be there. It's but you know, it's not going to be the answer to everything.

Mhm. >> Uh and you know, for you to count on that stream of income and then your municipality go, "Ah, we changed our mind." >> Yeah. >> You're out of business. >> Yeah.

>> But you paid too much for the house because you Airbnbed it in your proforma. >> Yeah. >> And you got screwed because you thought, "Oh, this is going to work." >> Famous last words, right?

>> Mhm. >> But don't act like Don't get it twisted.

This is the other end of the spectrum from passive. This is like lots of work.

>> Yeah. >> And gross stuff. Yeah. It's just Yeah.

>> I don't Yeah. There's that. Yeah.

[laughter] All right. And then Caitlyn is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Caitlyn. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave and Jade. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, a little background story. My husband and I are both 24 and we just welcomed our first baby a couple months ago. So, we were kind of in st mode, but now we're in vet mode. Thank you.

We're on baby sub number two. My husband's an electrician. Um, but we're trying to decide if he stays at his current job, which is a private owned company. It's a little bit more stable, offers a better work life balance.

Or he can move to the electrical union, which would mean significantly higher pay and stronger retirement benefits, but potentially less stability during slow periods and layoffs and then more time away from home and overtime.

getting ahead financially.

>> Um well, I think the net net on the union with him not having steady might

not be as much of a raise as it sounds like it is.

Yeah, exactly. And that's what we're trying they're kind of trying to decide.

>> I don't think the net net is going to be much, >> right? So, in Utah, there's a bunch of data centers coming in right now. And so, they're offering a lot of incentive pay, like $10 to $15 incentive pay when working on those jobs, but the data centers aren't going to be forever. So, we're just kind of trying to decide.

>> Is it is it possible to work some of that uh data center stuff as a side hustle?

>> He could. He has to only be working at the union, but he could potentially go back to this private company um once these data centers are >> So you can't you can't be working private and union >> in Utah. You have to be >> in Utah. It's not a right to work.

>> Interesting. >> Mhm.

>> At least that's what we think. Um we kind of just been looking into it. He's currently making 38 at his current job and then he would be making 43 with not

with including incentive pay. I I I would stay where you are.

>> Okay. >> That's not enough. I think by the time you adjust for volatility, >> you're not going to make a net $5.

>> I agree.

>> Okay. Even with a pension, like we shouldn't jump with for a pension.

>> I don't I don't jump for pensions.

>> Okay. >> No, >> we trust you. So, we will do.

>> I'm going to stay where you are, but I am going to explore. There's a lot of work that needs to be done in the area is what you're telling me.

>> And he has the skill to do the work. and I'm going to explore what I'm allowed to do as side hustles legally, >> right? >> Um, and I'm not going to lie to somebody. If the union requires you to be union, then I just can't do it uh at the union sites. But there's all kinds of side hustle. So, let me give you an example, okay? If the the side hustle market is being sucked up by the unions, if the electricians

that used to do side hustles otherwise are now doing data center work with the unions, that means all the jobs they used to do are available.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. >> Or or just straight up get on with the data center thing as a side gig working weekends just for a short, you know, for six months and pile on and let's get the debt cleaned up right quick. How much debt you got left?

>> We have 86,000 in my student loans and I currently work full-time, too. So, we we're in STO mode and now we're just kind of going to throw all of our savings that we have. >> You're out of STO mode cuz you're home from the having the baby, right?

>> Oh, yeah. We are We are already starting to >> That's all that's all in the rearview mirror. That's awesome. Congratulations on the baby. So, what do you make?

>> Thanks. I make 90,000 a year.

>> And he does too, right?

>> Yeah. About 80. >> Yeah. You're going to be out of debt no time. I would not make this adjustment.

You're going to lose too much quality of life. The juice isn't worth this squeeze. I'm using that a lot today.

>> I like it. Got to be worth it.

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Wshaw Ramsey personality is my co-host.

The phone number here is88255225.

Jeremiah is in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hi Jeremiah, how are you?

Hey Dave, doing good. How are you all doing today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Yes sir. Well, I just have a couple questions here. A little background story. First, I was the owner and

operator of a family business of 12. The

business was over 12 years old, but I ran it for 12 years. And after CO, it just got really hard for me to get any work. So, I had to take a different avenue. uh for employment which at the

time I didn't have very wise counsel or any counsel at that and I did a lot of probably not so popular avenues to help

with bills and um different situations

like that. So my overall question would be h I'm working on the baby steps and

obviously I would be at number two um

baby step number two on getting rid of all the debt. uh what is the best

scenario or I guess to kind of expedite that so to say. I've got some unsecured

debt and I have uh a heliloc that's kind of a gray cloud over my head right now

that I'd really like to get taken care of before that draw period closes.

>> How much is the heliloc?

>> The heliloc is 94,000.

>> Did you roll all the debt into that or is there more?

>> I did. I have I do have some unsecured debt outside of that. About 13,000.

>> Okay. >> What's your first mortgage amount?

>> My first mortgage is $1,500.

>> No, no, no. The balance. >> And >> oh, the balance we're $260,000.

>> What's the house worth?

>> The house is worth around $850.

>> Okay, >> that's good. >> And what's your household income?

>> We the household income annually is 75K.

and I'm the bread winner. My wife is stay at home, homeschool mom. Uh we just

had our third child last year, so we got

a lot. >> What did you used to make in the family business?

>> I used to make um average take-home

gross pay was anywhere from 120 to 160.

>> Doing what? What kind of business was that? >> I owned a caulking and waterproofing business. So pretty much anything that you can't see on a normal building, I

was the one behind the scenes doing it.

And uh but it paid good money when the work was there. Um it just it seemed like the right thing to do at the time cuz we were we were sinking sinking fast

and needed to take something with a more secure pay. But I obviously knew when I took the job that it was going to be lower income. So, I've tried to be patient where I'm at and work the ladder. >> You can't afford the house you're in with the income you have is your problem.

>> What is your What's your mortgage every month?

>> My mortgage every month is $1,500 a month, which is pretty good considering

what the housing market is now with a 3.35% interest rate >> and we're on year 10 of that.

>> Yeah. And the 94 fin what's the what's the terms on the heliloc?

The heliloc is a 10-year draw period and we're on like year four. I believe the interest on it is around 6% probably a

little bit lower. >> Who's your bank?

>> My local bank that I deal with is First People's Bank and then >> Well, they just put that Will they just put that on a 10-year fixed?

>> Take it off of HELOC, make it a 10-year fixed fixed second mortgage >> because you got a three and a half. You're not going to I normally would tell you to refinance >> and take, you know, wrap the helock and the and the first together, but if you do that, you won't be able to afford the payment, >> right? >> And um >> that's kind of what I have been getting at anyway. Yeah.

>> On on refinancing.

>> Yeah. And and um that's going to force

the sale of the house, which might be the net result of this whole thing of you closing down the business. You may be in a house you can't afford. I don't know. Uh, you can afford the 1,500, but you can't afford $350,000 in debt. That's what's weird.

>> So, I don't know how you got a $1,500 payment even at three and a half on 260,000. >> Yeah. Did somebody put down a bunch of money? >> No. 260,000 debt. 1,500 doesn't support

that. It's $18,000 a year.

>> It's uh we had uh we live on family

property and the property was given to us. So, we put the property on collateral and the house is actually a we built the house in 2016.

So, at the time I was making really good money and um we went that route for our

future and here here we are now, let's

see, we built the house in 2016.

So, we're 10 years into it. uh 4 years

with another employer and uh yeah. >> Are you are you in the uh are you in the same business that you used to be in, but now you're an employee?

>> I am not. I am not.

>> Could you start up the old business as a side hustle?

>> I do a bunch of side work. That's another thing I was going to point out is I do just about everything I can imagine to to help pay off some of those

especially that unsecured debt that we >> was that part of the 75 you said or is that on top of >> that 75 is my salary through my employer

now. >> Okay. So tell us what you >> I would restart your old business as a side hustle.

>> Okay. >> And get because I think you can make the most money there. you know that business and you know how to make $160,000 a year doing it >> and there's plenty of work out there right now. >> Um so but but you don't I just do it as

a side hustle. You don't have to quit completely and you don't have to go all the way back and and if you want to shut it back down after you get your helock cleaned off that's fine. Um, but and

then I would start talking to the bank about putting that helock on a 15-year fixed or a 10-year fixed or whatever and

no balloons and no calls bearing down on you in the future. I don't want this thing to pop on you later.

>> Um, but that gets that gets the the problem off of you and then basically you're doing cleanup from the debt that was left over when you didn't transition out of the business fast enough.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. And it's going to take you a little while to clean that up. But if let's just say you made an extra uh 50

as side hustle >> in two years you paid off your helock.

>> True. >> That's what I want to do. >> Yeah, that's 100% possible because that just puts you back at your old income.

Yeah. If you do that. >> Yeah. And then then you got to decide long term, you know, have I what happened was you got

uh uh you know, you got sliced and diced

by the COVID situation and uh you came

in out of the cold. You wanted a place that felt uh safe in a uh rough and

tumble war zone. I wanted a place where I could come a bomb shelter I could come into. But it cost you >> cuz you're only making 75 and you used to make 10 and a4 to 160.

>> So it's cost you $50,000 a year to have

a safe place to heal.

>> But so I want to also challenge you challenge you that that doesn't need mean you need to be there 38 years.

>> Yeah. It's time to get back at it. You may you may need to step back out and maybe the side hustle is a way for you to test your footing again and see if you've got emotionally you're ready to go back out in the cold cuz you're taking a beating on what you could be making.

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>> [music]

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>> Kaylee is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Kaylee. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was just calling because I am on

step two of the baby steps of paying down my debt. Um, but I have a decision

to make. I have um I'm 24 and I haven't

gone to college yet. And I was wanting to go to college to get my business administration degree.

And even though I'm in baby steps number

two, I was calling to see your opinion on if I should wait and just keep going with the baby steps and then go to college or bite the bullet, get the take

on the student loans and go to college now. >> Well, I definitely don't like the idea of you taking on student loans. How much will will it cost for you to get the degree?

>> Uh $12,000 >> total or per semester? totally a

community college and it'll be fully online. >> Okay. How what made you to to decide on

that? How did you come about saying I want to I want to do this? What's your what's your path here?

>> Um I've always been kind of a admin

girl. Um always been the person behind the scenes doing like data administration and making coordinating

and stuff like that. And after doing a lot of research, I found that if I get a business administration degree, it's broad enough of a degree that I can go from either hospitality to um hospital

services to maybe going in white collar.

>> Mhm. >> And so I figured getting this degree would be the best way for me to move forward.

>> Okay. So, are you talking about a business administration degree? Are you talking about a two-year program? >> An associates degree?

>> Yes, sir. I am talking about an associates degree. Oh, >> okay. All right. I was making sure I understood what you're doing. Okay. Um and what do you make today?

>> I make um gross 20 uh 2400 a month.

>> 24,400 a month doing what? The same work. Administrative administrative work. >> Sadly, no. I'm actually a cook. Uh I work at a daycare. >> Okay. Cook at a daycare. How much debt do you currently have?

>> 8,771.

Okay, rounding up. >> Listen, I I I'm not mad at a $12,000

degree if you if you have researched that it's going to be the path to get you in in the spaces you want to get to.

I do like the idea of you buckling down for a few months and paying off the 8,000 first and then cash flowing this because I don't see why you can't cash flow this. How much uh let's see how

long will it take you to pay off the 8,000 making 2400?

Um, I'm actually about to hit a really good point in my snowball method. I'm about to pay one of my debt uh down and basically I'll have it done within the next 18 months in total.

>> So, if you can do if you can do 8,000 in 18 months, then can you do the 12,000 over the course of two years? I think you can. And I think you could probably do that in less time. You might be able to do the 12,000 in 18 months because the debt will be totally gone. Hey, Kaylee. Are you saying $2,400

take-home?

>> Um, so my take-home is roughly uh 2,200.

So about 1,100 a check.

>> And you're living at home?

>> I live in an apartment.

>> What are you paying for rent?

>> Um, so rent in total is uh 1,200. I

split it uh with my partner, with my boyfriend. Have you? Uh, so are you making $15 an hour?

>> 1550, sir. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. So,

um, it just feels to me like you could probably make more doing almost anything else.

Like Target is paying $20 an hour.

>> Oh, goodness.

>> Yeah. So, I think you need to be looking to up your income and pick up and pick

up some side hustles. Both. Uh, I don't I think your job sucks. Your your current job, uh, it doesn't pay much.

And I I'm very impressed >> that you've put together a sustainable life with $2,200 take-home pay in

Austin, Texas. You are an impressive young woman. That is very responsible.

You've been very careful. You've been extremely frugal. You are very, you

know, and you're thinking into the future at the same time. You're you're an impressive young woman. So, I I I want you I think you're worth a lot more doing some other things in the meantime while you're getting this degree than they're paying you to cook at the daycare.

>> Okay. >> So, let's go let's go job hunting uh in

your off time and pick up two things.

One is a better day job and two is uh an

even better side hustle that pays$25 or $30 doing something. I don't care what.

I think you could babysit for neighborhood kids and make $25 an hour.

$25 an hour if you could find a nanny job, you know, um and you know, anything

that these days in freaking Austin, Texas. So, uh it's not exactly a poor

market of some kind. So, uh yeah, I I um

yeah, I want you to place more economic value on your hours than you have so far

because I can tell that you're worth it.

Um, and so, uh, what I'm saying is I

think between those two things, you probably are going to double your income. >> Yeah. And then you're out of this >> that clears that debt really fast and puts $12,000 in your pocket to get your BA degree real fast. And then you're doing all of this in 12 14 months, you know, and you're rolling right along.

And that's the PL path I would want to be on if I'm you.

>> I got a feeling you're going to be fine.

You're going to be fine. You're going to find your way through this.

you know, but the question is just what's the most efficient method for you to get through this because you're you're a survivor and you're a planner and a thinker. So, wow, very impressive.

Cool. Hey, thanks for calling. Andrews in Norfol, Virginia. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I am doing fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question for you today is, how do I save for retirement when I have a low income? Why do you have a low income?

>> So, currently I am uh working for a

church. I'm on pastoral staff and my

income that I get to take home every month is low because they give me a lot of benefits when it comes to housing, uh

phone, gas, paying for my daily

>> What is your take home? What do you make?

>> I'm taking home about 2,000 a month.

>> And what is your position with the church?

I would be their assistant or youth

pastor. >> Okay. All right. We work with about

50,000 churches in the last 10 years.

And uh the numbers that we have say that somewhere around 80% of the pastors in America are bivocational.

>> Got have to be. >> That means they have another job.

>> Yes sir. Yes sir. >> How how old are you? >> I just graduated from I'm 24 years old.

I mean, this is very similar to the last call in that way. You've got to be able to you've got to be able to sustain a life, and I don't think you can on $2,000 a month, even if you lived at home, even if you, you know, had a great benefit of, you know, whatever it is that they're offering you. >> Are they furnishing housing?

>> Yes, sir. I get about a $1,500 a month

uh housing allowance. >> Yeah. Okay. In addition, currently have a >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. In addition.

>> All right. Well, so here's the thing.

Um, >> so you have a $3500 a month income

[clears throat] >> but I'm not able to touch that housing

uh for personal funds. Yes, sir.

>> I know. I know how it works. And so the

um yeah, you'll get into all kinds of tax issues if you do and so will the church. So we don't want to do that. But bottom line is is you're make it's as if you have a $1,500 house payment and you make $3,500. How can I get ahead? You can. You can. And until your income comes up. But the way you ask the question, it's as if you're going to have this exact income when you're 54,

>> right? >> And therefore, we can't save for retirement. I mean, in the meantime, you may have to work a side hustle. That would vocational pastor would not be that unusual. Um and um so the pastor

that led me to the Lord when he was starting his church had a bread route and you know later on he was the pastor of a huge church and obviously was full-time at that point. But >> [music] >> um that's what I want for your future is God's call on your life. In the meantime you may have a bread route and um but you've got to have a long-term game plan that says I'm not going to have a low income the rest of my life.

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Might not be in all states. All >> righty. Today's question comes from Scott in Oklahoma. He says, "My 2003

Toyota has 226,000 m on it, and I

recently discovered it needs a replacement suspension system and an oil

leak repair. The lowest quote I've gotten is $8,500 to fix all of the issues. The car is paid off, but I already have put $10,000 into it over the past 5 years. I make 50,000 per year and don't have any debt. I have the money to fix the car, but it would deplete my emergency fund. Should I get this old car fixed or should I put that money towards a newer car? I feel like this is a really simple one. I got to believe that Toyota is probably not worth any more than $2,000.

So, for that reason, I would invest in a

new car for you. Um, >> if you're able to drive it a little while longer, I don't know if you can. I'd maybe try to save up as much as I can to put with the 8,500 so that you're not fully depleting that emergency fund.

But it is time for a new vehicle >> and you're paying cash. This is not your down payment. >> Yes. >> So you're going to buy a 6 or $7,000 car

which is going to upgrade you about 5x.

[laughter] >> Yeah. >> So yeah. Yeah. You're you're in good shape to pay cash for a sizable upgrade >> and um and then replenish your emergency fund as fast as you can instead of doing the repairs.

>> But >> so the for Go ahead. >> What should have been happening just to kind of go back in time. Scott, you know, you drive a 2003 Toyota with almost 250,000 m on it. You should have been putting money aside to upgrade this car over time, not just an emergency fund.

Because that's the part I feel like people forget about the Ramsay plan is I love that he has a paid for vehicle.

>> Yeah. That's assuming he hadn't spent the last 24 months getting out of debt and just now got to this point. >> That's That's also true. That's also >> he just got to this point, then that's different. But if he's been going along at this point and not saving for a car, then you're exactly right. Yeah.

>> So, uh here's a good formula for you guys. >> Okay. >> What is the car worth salvage today? And

so, you can sell this car in with an oil leak cuz it's going to cuz 2003 with

226,000 mi, it's going to have an oil leak. That's what you sell this car with. It's an oil leak. Okay. And it's not going to have a a wonderful suspension cuz it's got 200,000 miles on it. Hellact. So that that you know that makes this a whatever a 1500 $2,000 car.

Okay. >> And so you sell it for that.

>> If you did the repair, does it add the

value back? Okay. Equal to the repair.

So, how the for how the formula works on that is let's say that this is a $7,000

car if it's fixed,

but you could sell it for two.

>> Well, 2 + 8 is 10. So, you would still

not fix this car.

>> It's overpriced >> because you're going to have more in the car. What what you can sell it for plus the repair is going to be more than the car is worth after the repair. And if that's the case, that tells you it's that this is a throwaway car and you go buy you another throwaway car if you have to. In this case, he's got the money to move up quite a bit. Yeah.

>> And move into a seven or an $8,000 car.

If he sells this for two, >> put six in. He's still got some couple grand in his emergency fund to start rebuilding. Right. And that that's the kind of thing you're going to do there. And then have a plan like Jade was saying to move up again in two years.

>> They're right. cuz the $8,000 car is only going to last you. >> Start paying yourself $500 a month for two years, that's another $12,000.

>> Mhm. >> And you put that with the car that you bought for $7,000. The good news about a $7,000 car, it's not going to go down a lot. >> No. >> Two years from now, you sell it for six if you bought it. Right. Right. And um Yeah. And and now we've got an $18,000

car. Yeah. >> That we paid cash for. >> That's the that starts to make a lot of sense making 50 grand. It does. Well, at any rate, really, because I think that of all the things we teach, the cash car is the most elusive of the [laughter] of

the principles. I think people who are driving cars with car notes, they're driving a, you know, 2026, 2025 vehicle,

they hear you and I say things like, you know, the car payments keeping the middle class broke and they think, well, what am I supposed to do? Just hand over $30,000 and >> No, you're supposed to hand over $4,000 and pay yourself $1,200 a month. Yes.

>> Instead of paying Bank of America, screw me, $1,200 a month.

>> Exactly. That's what it looks like though to stair step up and >> Yeah. You pay If you pay yourself a car payment >> for 10 months, that's a lot. What a lot of people have $1,000 car payment. Yes.

>> That's $10,000 freaking dollars in 10 months. >> You know, how much patience do you have?

>> I mean, you can do a lot of bad transportation for 10 months and get by with it. >> That's right. >> I mean, you could drive the hoopty of hoopties for 10 months. a thousand dollar car, you know, it's predominant color is bondo. Yeah. You know, you can >> a two-car family can be a onecar family for 10 months. >> Well, do a lot. You know, we had a guy working here at one point that um you

know, their their second car was a car he bought at salvage that was perfect

condition, engine and drive and transmission. Interior was perfect condition, but it had been in a hail stom. >> Oh. >> So, it looked like it had acne.

>> Yeah. It was really It was really potar all over. It was the ugliest, funniest looking car because it had had the snot beat out of it. >> And what does he care? >> And it looked like somebody walked and hit it with a hammer all over. Right.

And uh but it worked perfect and the interior was perfect. The technology was current, but it was a salvage car completely. Yeah. And he said, "For for right now, instead of having a car payment, I paid $2,000 for what would have been a $15,000 car, >> but it's got looked like somebody hit it with a hammer all over." It was it was we really made fun of the guy, but but it was uh but he was classic Ramsay guy, right?

And and he did that for a year and paid himself a car payment and then went and bought a regular car. >> That's right.

>> A great that that's a great story.

Exactly. I love that. >> I come from a generation where we drove cars that were bad and we kept them so long that we named them. >> I was going to say it's got to have a name. >> It's got to have a name. The blue goose.

Right. [laughter] Yeah. The brown shoe.

>> That's so funny. >> The brown like the old woman in the shoe. >> Yeah. We had a we had a station wagon named the brown shoe. >> Wow. >> It was seriously ugly. >> It's got to have special what I call special features. >> Yeah. >> Which are >> the windows that don't go down properly.

Yeah. The door that won't lock. All that stuff. Yeah. >> The tape deck that eats the tape or eats the CD. Nobody even uses tapes and CDs anymore. But >> yeah. See now now you're getting old.

That's what's happening. Right. >> Well, your car is so old it [laughter] has CDs in it. >> That's right. Yeah, it's a whole different kind of car play. >> Yes. Yes. >> Hey, all all kidding aside, if you will drive like no one else later, you can drive like no one else. So, uh Jade and I don't drive Hoopties.

I drive whatever I want to drive these days. And um I can write a check and do

it because I drove crap for a while so

that I would never have debt again. And so it's just it's a it's not like we're saying drive a p piece of crap car that your whole life. >> Right. Right. >> But for a short period of time, a year,

two years, while you get out of debt, while you save up to avoid debt, uh on the next purchase, you know, you drive something that looks like a ballpeen hammer hit it all over. You drive something that's named the Grey Goose. You drive something the brown shoe. I don't care what you name it.

Uh but get, you know, it's the pitiful. and take pictures of it. So when you're old, you can tell your grandkids that are trust fund babies because you're a multi-gazillionaire. Back in the day, grandma and I drove that car [laughter] and that's why you little brats have money.

So you got to have story to tell, right? You got you really got to have a way to do this. So >> I had a a 1980 My first car was a handme-down from my sister.

forward. It couldn't go in reverse. So, you have to choose your parking >> spot carefully, >> which means you park way out in the parking lot sometimes >> all the time >> cuz you have to pull forward, right? Yes.

Oh my god, that's so >> terrible. It had to be warmed up. Like the transmission had to be warmed up for quite a while before it would even think about going in reverse. >> We need to do a show where we ask everybody their worst car they've ever owned.

[laughter] Yeah. So, my wife my wife's first car when we got married was a Pinto. The ones that were blowing up. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. The Pinto and the Vega. and the Gremlin have been named the worst cars of the 70s.

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>> [music]

[music]

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Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Connor is in Riverside. Hey Connor, how are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I graduated from college last June and I got a job u making 88,000 per year. I'm still living with my parents and on my current budget I can save a h 100,000 by the end of next year. And I want to know if I should if I should move out at this point or if I should wait till I can save more to put a bigger down payment on a house.

>> Well, I was going to ask what's what the goal the specific goal is and it's to put a down payment on a house. How much do you need? Like what's the monetary goal?

>> Well, in California, a decent house is around 700,000.

Um there's some that are less worse

neighborhoods. Um, so I try to buy on a

budget to buy a house around 700,000.

And I I'm on track if I keep doing what I'm doing. Um, I can save 100,000 by the end of next year. >> Mhm. >> And yeah, the goal is to buy a house and to do it without having to um take on a

huge mortgage and to keep the payment underneath like um 30% of my take-home

pay. >> What are you doing for a living?

>> I do supply chain analytics.

You got a logistics degree?

>> Yeah, I have a bachelor's degree in business majoring in supply chain.

>> And you're [snorts] only making 88 grand.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm only one year one year in. >> Okay. >> And I'm trying to make uh more money.

I'm going to go um for a master's degree. That's going to cost. >> You don't have to have a master's degree to make more money with a logistics degree. >> You're going to be just fine. >> I'm trying to do free. >> Yeah. You're you're sitting on $125,000 salary any minute. Um, wow. Uh,

>> what >> good degree choice? Let me start there.

Yeah. >> Yeah. What do you see yourself earning a year from now, which is the time that you want to live at your mom's house?

>> Do you see yourself to 125?

>> 125 at least. I want to make more.

Trying to make more. >> Yeah. Okay. So, here's the tradeoff.

the way you have analyzed this and it comes from the way your brain works which is awesome by the way. Um I'm thrilled with the way you're looking at things is that there is no downside to

living there and the upside is I'm

stacking cash >> because you get along with your parents obviously or you wouldn't even be asking this. >> You don't have a strained situation there. Uh it's comfortable. Um, and so

it it it appears to be a no-brainer to stay here and live here for free and stack cash. The unintended consequence

is that you haven't started your adulthood completely as long as your mommy is in the house.

>> Yes. And um when one of my children came home from college and their apartment wasn't their new place to set up house wasn't ready yet, they stayed with us for about 3 months, which was just fine cuz we love them and they were we get along and there was no issue. And uh but I will tell you that as soon as that child moved out and and and in paid their own

bills and bought their own milk and had their own electric bill, it changed

their posture. It changed the way they walked, >> more confident, >> the swagger, the everything. Um

and um

yeah it and not to mention for some

ladies uh it would change your eligibility as a

date. >> Come on Dave >> whether you live at your mommies or not.

>> Yeah I I I got to say I think there's two three I'll say three monetary things

here that might be more important than the money. >> That that's true. But even even the money, I don't think that your math is quite right because a $700,000 a

$700,000 house that you've put $100,000 on is not going to get you where you need it to be, even making $125.

>> True. >> You're going to be well above. I mean, I'm just plugging the numbers in on our mortgage calculator, and I just I think you need to rethink your math on that.

That being said, uh I don't think

there's a rush. You're 22, which means you'll be 23 years old. You don't need a $700,000 house at 23 years old.

>> Yeah. >> In your first year of working, right?

Like let's >> or second year. >> Yeah. Let's create some stability. Let's make sure that this is really the field we want to be in. Let's make sure this is the area we want to be in. Give yourself some some freedom by just renting. Get an apartment. I love that for you. >> It's not horrible. Um,

yeah. If I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know about money and life, I

would move out. Even though on the surface the economics don't look that favorable when you do that. Then I would

also value your I I think you're worth

more than you're being paid probably in the marketplace right now. The market job market's a little slow right now. It's sluggish. But um and then the other

thing that comes to mind um that that

you may or may not want to consider is that you might be able to make $125,000

in Kansas City.

>> Oh, that's a good point. Yeah.

>> Which would cost you half as much to live as Riverside, California.

>> That's true. >> And the only reason you're there today, or at least one of the reasons you're there today, is because you grew up there. >> Yeah. Uh, and I'm not suggesting you have to move to be successful, but

there's something about when you move out that that option starts to be there

that's not emotionally setting itself in your brain when you're staying at home.

>> Yeah, I agree with that. >> And so I I want you to go out and have a life and let's just see what how what let's live the grand adventure.

>> And then you're also not comparing your current life to your parents' life who has spent years getting there. Yeah.

They've been they've been trying to get Yeah, you can't >> you don't need a a $700,000. I mean, $700,000 is not a fancy house in Riverside. >> No, it's not. But I'm just saying it's still a lot of money no matter how you slice it. It's a lot of money.

>> It's a lot of math and whether regardless of what it buys.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, um Yeah. Wow.

>> Yeah. I Now, if he had told me he had $100,000 of of debt and he could live at

home and pay it off in one year, I would probably change my mind on that. I would probably go, hey, if you can do it and you can knock it out and there's a clear timeline and there's a clear amount, I'd probably be fine with that. He is going to sacrifice some of the things that you said. >> Yeah. I'm I'm not sure

that I have adequately

uh thought through and quantified what

living on your own is worth.

>> Well, it's at >> it costs more, but I think it's worth more than it costs. And I can't I can't

put actual dollars to that off the top of my head like I can some things to justify my position. So my position might be weak. >> There's the a there's got to be you got to consider your age range cuz I think the older you are the more it the more it hits. You know, you can't be 33 living at mom's house. >> That Yeah. 19 is a little I can give you a little break there. >> I'm like 21. >> Hey, he graduated from college at 19.

>> Yeah, >> that's like two years early. Three years early. He's a gen a little bit of a super genius. >> Yeah, we got some Savant stuff going on here. >> Yeah, that's interesting. [snorts]

I'm treating him like he's 22.

>> Huh. That's a good point, too.

Interesting. Interesting. This is a good discussion. Connor, you're you're a sharp dude. You're going to be okay. Uh you don't have to buy a house in one year. Um and there are benefits to

moving out that you haven't considered.

And that's a summary of what we have yked about and and [laughter] gone around the barn for the last few minutes. But but it's good. It's I appreciate you letting us use you to have the discussion for America. Um because there is a uh the old movie failure to launch. There is a problem in America.

U particularly disturbing among males

that that [laughter] that are not leaving home. Now you're not the 33 the 33y old living at home is a problem. I I you know what, Dave? I actually do think it's both. I think it's men and women, but I do think that it is more frowned upon, and I'm not saying right or wrong, but I feel like I'm a sexist boomer.

>> We get more of the ick when we see a guy living at home. >> And you're a sexist, whatever. If you're not a boomer, if you just said that. Yeah. I get ick with a guy being at home. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But it is. It is. But still, I mean, I you know, go be like [music] a grown-up.

>> It's okay to be broke and be on your own and be single and make your way have dignity and Yeah. That's part of life.

But you're not you're not 33, you're 19.

So if you want to hang out one more year, we're not going to be mad at you.

>> It's true.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Renee is

in Los Angeles. Hi Renee. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Al. Um I was hoping you could help with a disagreement me and my husband are having. Um, so we'd like I'd like to pay off debt. Uh, we have about 16,000 in consumer debt and we make about 11,000 a

month. Um, my husband would like to pull out from our uh what is it? Stocks. Um,

pull all out all of our stocks to pay off the debt. Whereas I'm on the side of I think we can make a lifestyle change and pay it off in three months. Uh, right now we have one income. uh he is able to work and he can bring in an additional 7,000 a month and we should be able to pay this off even faster.

>> Why isn't he working now?

>> Um we just kind of have been living a a

cushy life. Very very luxury. There's really no particular [clears throat] reason. >> How cushy a life are you living in California on 11,000?

>> Uh it's it just happens to work for us.

Um the rent's pretty low and uh a lot of our expenses we really don't have any car payments or anything else.

>> Okay. That that aside, I just want to ask, does that bother you at all? I know that that's not pertinent to the question, but does does that bother you?

>> Uh only up until recently, but for the most part, I was pretty content with it. Everything was getting done at the house, so I had no complaints.

>> Okay. So, how much stocks, single stocks, do you have that you could sell?

What are they worth? >> Not a ton. Uh only 28,000.

>> Okay. But that's enough to clear the debt and still >> That would be enough to clear the debt. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So here Yeah. Here's the answer interesting to me. I think you're both right.

>> I think you need to adjust your freaking lifestyle. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And I think you need to cash out these stocks and pay off your debt.

>> He needs to work regardless.

>> The credit cards are the 16,000, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's um financial laziness.

You make enough money to not have run this debt up. You just weren't paying attention and you wrecked the car.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, have you cut up the credit cards?

>> Yes. Yes. This is actually old debt. So, we've paid down about 30,000.

>> Oh, good. Okay. That's good. All right.

[snorts] >> So, yeah. I number one, we're not going to tell you to have single stocks. We're going to have that liquidated. Put that in the emergency fund or put it towards your house or whatever, >> wherever you are on the baby steps or put it towards this debt. Put it on this debt if you want. But then number two, we need to be on an every dollar budget where you've adjusted lifestyle and the two of you are um not uh you know,

you're not living beyond you. You've been doing that though because you've reduced debt. So you're already doing that. So you you feel like you you just want to stay on the plan. I'm I'm now catching up. I'm I'm recycling here.

>> I It just sounds I think what's going on

is good. I think you've it sounds like you've tightened up in order to pay the debt down to what it is now. Is that right?

>> Correct. Yes. >> Yes. >> Tightened up.

>> My only thing is I'm holding on to the stocks if it's a a private stock that I have in a previous company. >> Here's the thing. >> I do believe it's going to be like a high potential. >> Even if you didn't have the debt, I would give you the same advice.

I'd say I'd rather you sell that stock and I'd rather you let's pretend you were on baby step four and you could invest in mutual funds. I'd still take that money and diversify it in that way. So, the debt really has nothing to do uh specifically with that advice. It's just at this point, this is money that you have access to that you can pull out and there really wouldn't be a penalty on it.

It's not retirement money or anything like that. So, for that case, I would take it out. I would put uh 16,000 towards the debt. The other 12,000 to Dave's point, you can throw that in a high yield savings account, have an emergency fund.

Now, we're setting ourselves up to really be able to invest the proper way if we do that. Um >> yeah, the the stock.

guy offer me a position in a private company the other day that I could have bought controlling interest in in a private in a private situation like that. >> And when you're I I didn't take it. Um and the reason is that typically a situation like that is all or nothing.

Meaning this stock's going to tank and it's going to be worth very very little and it's going to be a problem or it's going to go to the moon and it's going to be the smartest thing you ever did.

>> [snorts] >> It's never in between. It's not a predictable environment. It's a highrisisk investment. But the thing is, so if you can get out of it, if you can get it out, I didn't do it.

>> I'm saying, but if anybody could be in a position to just take a fun, no problem. >> I'm not blinked. But the Yeah, but the point is the point is she doesn't need to be doing that. Yeah.

And so you're only looking at the upside and you're emotionally involved because it was the last company you worked in >> and you you think those guys are smart and they may be smart and it might go to the moon. If it doesn't, it's going to go to zero and it if you didn't if you had $28,000 in the middle of your kitchen table right now, would you go buy that stock or would you pay down the debt? I'd pay down the debt >> 100%. >> And I'd cash out the rest of the stock and I'd put it in a stable investment that was much more predictable.

So I don't know if you're going to do any of that, but that's what we would tell you to do. I'd cash out the 28. I would continue the adjustment on the lifestyle. You're both right.

>> Yeah. And a husband needs to do something. Now, don't get me wrong. I love when people have worked to create flexibility in their lives.

I think that's great. But I think he's going to need a sense of direction and purpose, and that's what he needs.

>> Jenna is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jenna.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Hey. So, uh, my husband and I have

about $80,000 of non-mortgage debt that we're working through. We're on baby step number two. And, um, my husband runs a landscaping business. And so, our tax accountant has told us to save 15%

of his gross revenue and throw it in some sort of savings account that we don't touch just for tax purposes at the end of the year to cover any unexpected tax burden we might not be prepared for.

But I have about $9,000 in that account right now. And I'm just wondering if I should be using that to clear any of our debt instead of just holding on to it for taxes. >> You hold on to it for taxes.

>> You've That money's already spent. It's got the IRS's name on it.

>> And I probably would have done 20% to be honest with you. >> We recommend 25% of your net profits,

not 15% of your gross. You may be saving too much for taxes. We don't know that yet. But don't screw around with the IRS.

>> Got it. >> Yeah. keep your t keep your tax money um

sacred. It's not even there emotionally.

Now, you may want to adjust the formula

after you've done a year or two of this, but you do need to be setting aside and being be paying quarterly estimates. And they're usually going to approach uh about a 10% tax rate on your net profits

plus 15% of self-employ self-employment

tax because you you know, if you're if you're an employee, you pay 7.65, but if you're self-employed, you pay both sides, the employee and the employer. So you pay 156 157. So um you know so

you've got a a 25% hit there of your net

profits probably is going to be pretty accurate for your quarterly estimates and then your total tax bill. Don't mess around with that money. Now if you're oversaving and you can prove that mathematically.

If you've saved $4,000 more than you need and you can prove that mathematically, then sure, take that money and throw it at the debt. But that money that please, you don't mess around with it. Your accountant really gave you great advice to make you start withholding on yourself >> cuz it's one of the small business people get hit in the head like this the most of anything I see. They don't they don't do their quarterlys and then the IRS comes up and smacks them.

>> [music]

>> Heat. Hey, Heat.

[music]

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>> [music]

>> time is running out to enter the Ramsey

Cash giveaway. You can enter anytime between now and May 31 to increase your chances of winning the $500 weekly prize

and the $10,000 grand prize. Obviously, no purchase necessary. No salesman will call. Be sure to check out our sale though while you're on the site. Right now you can kick off your summer with books and assessments for only $12 for hardback books. Wow.

Yeah. I just jumped online and bought a um a friend of mine has a new fiction book coming out and I just jumped online and bought it. >> Uh-huh. Oh, your Navy Seal.

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>> I'm sure it was not. >> It was a lot more than $12.

Ramseyolutions.com/giveaway.

Uh hit that right now and you can enter.

And you can also check out the $12 books. [laughter] It's a good deal. All right, Jean is with us in Chattanooga.

Hi, Jean. How are you?

>> I'm fine. Thank you so much for your ministry. >> Thank you. How can we help? >> Uh, someone uh used my stolen ID

electronically to open a checking account in another bank and stole funds from one of the accounts that I have with a wealth management company where I have retirement and investments.

>> Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. They opened a checking account at another bank. How were they able to steal funds from your wealth management company? >> They used uh the checking account electronically to go into the wealth management company. And >> so they had all your information to do this. >> They evidently did. And and I never have managed any of those accounts by phone or direct electronically. I've always done by phone or direct mail. So why is your wealth management company not liable?

>> Uh that's my question. Are they not liable because this loss I sustained was not associated with you know market value valuables but their >> it was they got hacked.

>> Yeah. Their their site got hacked by an identity thief. I think that's on them.

>> Okay. >> I'm not sure. I'm not an attorney, but that's what it sounds like from a common sense perspective. I >> How much money did you lose?

>> 45,500.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 84. >> How much money was in the account total?

>> Oh goodness. I would have to look that up, but I don't remember.

>> A lot.

>> Um, I think it was about [clears throat] 100. Let me see. >> Why did they only get 45? There was more in there. >> I don't know. I have 169,790

in there. >> So, why did they not get it all?

>> I don't have a clue. Maybe they thought, you know, they could get some more.

>> So, you called But you called your wealth management company. What did they say?

>> They they were um I would never have known about it if they hadn't sent me a letter asking them if I had changed my email and my bank account. And of course, right away then they tried to reverse the the transaction and and by

then of course the money was gone. So >> So but they is did you leave the rest of your money there?

>> Well, right now I haven't changed anything, but I intend to.

>> I just don't know whether whether I should change my um my management

company before they refund my money or whether I need this. Oh, you need to you need to make sure I'm going to have a discussion with them on the phone as soon as you hang up with us >> that makes sure that the remaining money is safe. >> Uhhuh. >> Yeah. >> That's the first thing we got to make sure that's safe. And then the second thing is uh when are you guys going to refund me the money that you lost because your account that I have with you was hacked?

>> Correct. >> I'm gonna ask them to refund this. I don't know that that's going to work. I because I'm not an attorney. Okay. Um, but I think that they're going to be liable for that. Um, because their account got [clears throat] hacked. I mean, so let's pretend you had a savings account at a bank >> and a thief got into the savings account on the bank and stole the money.

>> Mhm. >> It's the same thing.

>> Yeah. >> The bank would be the bank would be liable. So, I'm pretty sure this wealth management company is liable for this.

No, it's on both and it's on there's [clears throat] issues on both ends because if they were able to set up another bank account with your information, then if they were a able to use that to >> uh connect the two banks, they've got a lot of your information.

>> Jean, do you know the person that did this? >> No, I don't know who it was.

>> Okay. >> Then you've got a lot of information on you. >> They do. I know.

>> Okay. And and let me tell you what I've done. I have subscribed to Xander Insurance. >> Good. Good. Are they helping you, the ID theft people? >> Oh, well. Uh, no. Xander is uh It was

after the fact. >> I know. But did they offer to help anyway?

>> They just I don't know if they would or not. I didn't ask them. >> Yeah, I I'm going to ask them to help you. Okay. >> All right. >> As a favor to me. They're friends of mine. And um I my 84 year old friend

Jean in Chattanooga needs some help and I'm going to ask them to help you even though uh you bought the insurance afterwards. Okay. So I'm going to put you on hold and the gang in the booth is going to pick up and connect you with Jeff Sander who's a friend of mine and they're going to help you walk through this and uh make sure your ident

identity is secured first and foremost.

And then secondly, um, if you need some

help, we'll hook you up with one of our Ramsey coaches, Ramsey financial coaches as a gift also, no charge, and see if

they can help you navigate with this wealth management company. Um, because

uh, they they need to be offering me my

money back really fast if they want to keep me as a customer, if I'm in your shoes.

>> Definitely. >> Okay. So, um, >> and I tried to, you know, I tried to get legal advice here and I went to the bar association and they gave me a couple names and I queried them, but they didn't even respond. So, I guess I I'm just peanuts, you know, to them.

>> Well, the $45,000 is peanuts, but you're

not peanuts. >> That's right. >> Okay. You're you're okay. U, you're going to be all right. But what we have to stop this from happening anymore, and we have to apply for and get the refund.

And I think between our Ramsey coaches and Xander, which is going to cost you nothing. We're going to take care of all of it. Um, we're going to make sure you're okay, but you need to get on the phone today and make sure the rest of your accounts are secure with those people in the meantime while you decide what's going to happen. So, you hang on and our gang will pick up and we'll put our arms around you and see if we can help you, kiddo.

>> That's terrible.

>> That's kind of scary.

>> Yeah, that is. That they got all of her stuff. I mean, they not only knew enough

to open an account, but they knew she had the other account and how to access it. >> That's very scary. >> And these goobs release this money to a

fresh email and fresh address that they

did not already have on file >> cuz that means they went in and changed.

>> Cyber security at a minimum is horrible at this company. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> She should have named if she's got the story straight. If that's what's going on. Yeah, >> like drop the name of that brokerage so we can all know. >> We'll wait and see. Make sure make sure what they do. But yeah, it's uh that's

>> uh >> it's scary. >> Yeah.

So, when you have a uh a brokerage

company like that, like our Smartlist Mister Pros as an example, um you you

build clients over time.

>> And in [clears throat] that world, you call it your book of business. And how much do you have aumum assets under management? And so a big,

you know, the somebody's been working for 25 or whatever years will have half

a billion to a billion, 500 million to a billion dollars in assets under management. And if one of those clients

had $200,000 out of your half a billion

you're managing and was 84 years old, this would be her. That's the situation she would normally be in.

>> And uh uh but the way you get a book of

business that size is you take care of people. >> Yeah. >> 84 year old widows would be at the top of your list. >> I would you would think so.

>> Hello. And so that's

the um the proper way to run that book

of business. The book of business grows when you love the people in the book.

Well, >> what's curious is they only took 45,000

169. That makes that sounds nefarious to me. That's >> I'm still afraid a relative of hers is doing this. >> I agree with that, Dave.

>> Ouch.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

[music] >> Renee is with us in Charlotte. Hi Renee.

How are you?

I'm great. Thank you for taking the call. I love the work you do. >> Thank you. How can we help?

>> My question is regarding how much I

should pressure my teenage daughter to apply for scholarships, college scholarships. >> Why wouldn't you?

>> Well, we I I should reframe the question. I have been and it's not working and I don't know if I should start punishing her. Oh.

>> [laughter] >> uh taking away privileges if she if she doesn't um put forth some effort.

>> Does she work? Does she have has she ever had a job?

>> She does have a part-time job and she is um she's a she just finished her junior year of early college. So, she has done

very well and she will graduate high school with an associates degree and she only needs two years to get her undergrad and

she's under the impression that she can start applying during the school year of her senior year and get scholarships.

I've done some research and have found that she should really start applying now and she is not putting forth the

effort.

Okay. Are are you are you married?

>> Yes. >> Where's her father in this discussion?

>> He agrees with me, but he's also not

quite as assertive as I am. >> Okay. So, I I think what I would do is gather some information um and lay it

out the three of you. And um here here's

the way I would look at it. There was a lady that worked on our team for a while named Christina Ellis.

Look her up, okay? She had a book out called Confessions of a Scholarship Winner uh she applied for as a single

mom's daughter and received $500,000

worth. >> Oh wow. >> And uh so she can and she's like the best I've ever met in the world. She worked on this team for a while here and a sweet girl too. Very smart. Very smart. And uh she ended up getting a graduate degree from Vanderbilt, all paid for. And um so uh

yeah, I would gather the information she's got in that book and you know, here's the types of examples that she bring brought out and I've heard her teach this from stage with me. Okay. Um

you know, if you spent 200 hours

applying for scholarships, that's a lot.

>> Mhm. That's five hours a day

for a lot for 50 days.

>> Yeah. Part-time job. >> Like that's your part-time job. And if you got $50,000 worth of scholarships,

that means that your daughter doing that would have earned $250 an hour.

Mhm. >> I'm going to present that type of information to your daughter and to your husband and then say

based on that, I don't care if you like

it. You're not leaving the house again

until you agree to do this.

>> It's more important for her to do that financially than have the part-time job, the other parttime job >> or go to part-time community college and be ahead of school, >> you know? So, I mean, you cannot earn $250 an hour >> as a 17-year-old anywhere else. And that's the rate. I made that number up, by the way.

Okay?

>> to apply for scholarships. Only you're not getting them today. And so if you go to if you get $50,000 in scholarships and your mom and dad have $50,000 in savings and you're going to get that savings in your pocket when you graduate as a result of having not spent it because you got scholarships that's making $250 an hour.

>> Wonderful point. >> Yeah. And and so but and that changes it

like I'm on your side. I want you to

come out of college with $50,000 in cash

in your pocket from your dad's and I account that we're going to hand to you.

uh because we didn't have to pay for college because you do this smart thing and she's obviously a talented student >> and I >> she is >> I got to believe with AI it's easier than ever to synthesize your ideas and help you know prepare your thoughts for the different essays and prepare you know what >> you can write the essays you can write hundreds of essays in 20 minutes.

>> Yeah. >> With chat GPT.

>> Yeah. I have been doing all the research and presenting it to her and telling her to get a bio essay and to chart out a

schedule. >> Yeah. But you're telling her what to do without her really grasping the why.

>> Mhm. >> And what I'm doing is walking around on the other side and putting a big old carrot out there before I pull the stick out.

>> Okay. >> I want She hadn't been seeing the carrot because she's not dumb. This is a bright child. Yeah, she's >> And by the way, she's not even lazy.

>> She's not lazy. No, so these are She's not That's why we're so shocked. >> Yeah, she's not got character flush. She just hasn't become a believer that this is worth the effort.

>> Mhm. and we've just got to help. You present that to her and her dad and go, "Okay, now are you ready to Okay, let's put together a schedule and you're going to spend 3 hours every morning doing this until you reach 250 hours because it's going to pay you an average of whatever. Okay, the amount you the amount that you get divided by 200 hours.

And when you finish 200 hours, I will shut up. If you've applied, if you've applied 200 hours worth of effort writing essays to get scholarships, you're gonna get so stinking many scholarships. And by the way, get good at it. Don't just don't just mail it in, right?

>> Literally. Yeah. But I mean, work the thing cuz Christina said, "I'm a single mom's daughter and I'm a >> citizen student and I'm this." You know, you have to use whatever your advantages are. >> Uh, you know, I'm 116th Cherokee. I don't care what you are. whatever it is, you lean into that and you uh because you're going to find somebody that's got everything. I mean, there's there's all these little nuance scholarships and um you know, and it doesn't all depend on athletic ability or grades. Uh there's lots of them that

come from all kinds of weird nuanced things. And so, yeah, and

you know, get creative with the essay.

be the most positive thing that they see coming in front of them and they want to give it to them. Pretend like you're on the scholarship committee. What would you want to see if you wrote the essay coming in? What what kind of essays are going to make the difference and that you're going to keep at the top of the stack and all that kind of stuff? And treat this like it's a like it's a straight commission job >> because it basically is.

>> Yeah. And and u but I think we need to get a big carrot out here. are big. This is this is the prize and so the effort

is worth it to get the prize and uh then

then applying for scholarships makes a lot of sense. But yeah, I think you're the only one jazzed up about it in your whole house. So we need to get the rest of the house on jazzed and the way we get jazzed as we talk about the why, not the how. That's the thing. Mike is on

the line in Milwaukee. Hey Mike, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Sorry, question is me and my fiance are looking into trying to be able to put ourselves in a position to retire around the 55 mark. >> How old are you? >> Just wondering where uh 35.

>> Okay. When are you getting married?

>> Uh September. >> Oh, good. Cool. >> Okay, cool. Okay, so you got 20 years to get ready to retire at 55 instead of 59

and a half. So you can't access your Roths or your 401ks, right?

>> Yep. And that's what I'm looking for is what it should be invested in to carry from 55 to 59 and a half.

>> Okay. If if we were going to guess, let's just put a wet finger in the air.

What will you need to live per year when

you're 55 if you don't work?

>> If I had to guess, uh maybe 60 $70,000

is be comfortable. So, >> all right, let's just call it 60. And you need to do that times five. So, you need 300K.

Yeah. >> Yeah. If you don't work, why would you not work at all at 55?

>> Why wouldn't you find something to do?

>> Just to have the option to do it.

>> Work optional is probably a better way to say it. Work optional. >> Yeah. Well, work optional is fine, but it's not doesn't happen very often.

So, what I would do is just go ahead and get out of debt, get your house paid off, and build [music] wealth and worry about that when you get a little closer. If you want to invest when you get a little closer, you just do that in a low turnover mutual fund like an S&P 500, like a Vanguard S&P 500 or something like that. And that'll that's a good way to do it. But I wouldn't fool with that today.

[music]

>> [music]

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Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 12:24, "Diligent hands will rule, but laziness

ends in forced labor."

Oof. [laughter] Warren Buffett, rule number one, never lose money. Rule number two, never forget. Rule number one. [laughter]

>> Got it. >> Works for me. Check. >> John is in Minneapolis.

Hey, John. How are you? I'm good. Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Um, so I'm trying to figure out if I'm losing my mind from wanting to walk away from a highpaying job, um, and start all over in something new that pays quite a bit less, at least a start. Um, so I'm in a financial sales position right now. Um, it's almost all commission, so I average around 250,000 a year.

And I know I'm blessed to be in a financial position I'm in. Um, but for the last couple of years, I found zero fulfillment in this job. and been pretty unhappy.

Um we're really pushed to work past the schedule hours, work every single weekend. Um and it's really starting to affect my relationships outside of work.

>> Now I have a lot of >> um a financial product, a mortgage.

>> Okay. >> So you're a mortgage underwriter

>> officer. >> Okay. A loan officer. Yeah. Okay. So is it the work or is it the the conditions in which you're doing the work? >> Why why can't you do that somewhere else that has reasonable culture and reasonable hours and makes a little less and actually it's actually not the actual day-to-day work. It's the environment and the hours and the lack of pri and

the bad priorities that's driving you crazy, right?

>> Um yes. And I've had quite a few workers that or co-workers that have left and went to other companies in the industry and ultimately pretty much every one of them comes back to the company we're at um because they said this is really the best company in terms of you know

technology and stuff. Um but the culture

has been like this and it's really gotten worse over the last I would say 12 months. Um, and what I'm worried about mainly is over the next couple

years I want to be in a position where I'm starting a family and I look at my co-workers and I see them really struggling to keep up in the job and, you know, be there, be present for their families and I just don't want to end up being the parent or not.

Again, I am not buying the fact that you

can make $250,000 at one company and you

can't work normal hours and work for good people and and have a better balance to what you're doing um

>> at a different company >> and make 150 to 200 at a different

company. I don't believe that.

>> I think your co-workers have given you a message that's not true. as if there's one place on the planet that this whole thing can happen and it works and everywhere else it doesn't work. Bull crap.

>> Correct. Yeah. And that's the that's really the feeling that the you know we get from leadership. >> I don't care what leadership told you. You don't you already don't have faith in leadership. Why are you listening to anything? >> So what what what opportunities have you been looking at?

>> Yeah. So we have a family friend who's an electrician in our area. Um, and he's been trying to get me to to be an apprentice for quite a while now.

>> Why? >> Um, >> that's so a completely different path.

>> Why?

>> Because this one company that you work for sucks and so now you're going to go be an electrician.

>> Um, he he doesn't know anything about my my job. >> Yeah. So, why would he even ask?

>> Yeah. We're talking about you. Why would you do >> I mean, okay, I'm I'm an electrician and I know a guy that is a mortgage guy who's obviously making a lot of money. I maybe I don't know it's a quart million dollars a year. Why would I even talk to that guy about being an electrician?

That's just strange.

Yeah, he knows I've always been interested in working with my hands and I ended up just kind of falling into this job through an internship in college and it was always supposed to be uh you know I'll do this for a couple years and then move on to something else. >> How old are you? >> Couple years. Um I'm 29.

>> And how long have you been doing the mortgage broker deal?

>> Uh about eight years.

>> Eight years. Okay. So you're looking at this going, "Man, I fell into this job.

This is not what I intended to do. This is not what I set out to do. I need to stop this train and I need to get on the path that I really want to be on.

>> Correct. >> Understood. Okay. Um, how are you doing

financially?

>> Um, I'm good. So, I have in my checking

account I have about 15,000. Um, I do have an emergency fund with about 25,000 in it and a high yield savings.

>> Uh, no debt at all. Um, I'm very very fortunate there. Um, and then I have a high yield savings with about 115 that was supposed to be for hopefully a wedding here in the next year or two.

Um, and then a down payment on a house and and that sort of stuff. >> Okay. So, you're getting married in the next year. Any kids?

>> No. >> Okay. Listen, I I I do think that you should do work that matters to you, work that you feel good about. It's all about how can we get there and is there a way

that over time we can create the same value? Cuz the hard part for me is to know that you were worth $250,000 in the marketplace and then to go down without

the horizon of being able to meet that that peak again. That would bother me personally. If it doesn't bother you, that's okay. Um, so tell us about the

electrician. What's the route? What does it look like? And what do you want to know from us?

>> No problem. Um, so it it would be a 5-year apprenticeship. It would be a union electrician. So, I'd start at about $21 an hour. Um, in five years,

um, when I make it through, I'd be a journeyman. Right now, the pay is about $42 an hour. Um, but that would just be my base pay. Doesn't include like any fringe benefits or anything on top of that, like health insurance money going into a retirement account. Um, when I do the math, working the same amount of hours I'm working right now, which is 55 to 60 a week. >> You don't want to work that many hours.

So, we can't compare it to that.

>> Um, correct. You're you're right. So, it

would be a pay cut um at the 5-year mark. Um, if I, you know, make it through the apprenticeship, um, I'd be sitting around about 130 a year >> as a journeyman. And that's kind of the peak, >> correct? Yeah. Um, >> unless I would move up to be a foreman and and so on. But, >> man, you really hate this company.

>> I think so, too. I >> this is like they have wounded you so badly that you're willing to jump into a pit of acid to get away from them.

>> Yeah. How do you know that you'll love being an electrician to the tune of a a $100,000 pay cut?

>> That I I don't know for sure. And that's what scares me the most and why I'm why I called in to to get your guys' advice on this. I know >> I don't I I I'm not buying. I I think you're running so hard away from something that you're not looking carefully at what you're running to.

Um, so if I were going to advise a 29-year-old who made $250,000 a year, who's in a toxic culture, um, and he knows how to sell, um, I I I I I'm not

against the trades. I'm a I'm a fan of the trades. Okay.

>> But you have painted the best possible scenario for a union, journment, electrician, and it's going to take you five freaking years to get back to half of your income. >> Yeah. Could you not? >> And that just not that's just not logical. Could you not go to another

>> uh mortgage firm first and test that out

and go, okay, like this is good. You're because Dave's right. You're clearly good at what you do. >> And generally, >> I think you can make 160 180,000 day one

somewhere else working normal hours and not being spit on every day or whatever's happening over there.

You've got to get away from the place.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But I think you've convoluted the career field

as being horrible with the company as

being horrible. And you need to separate those two things first before you make this decision. >> It's hard to me when and you'll probably

be able to put better words to this, but when you're clearly really good at something and you're clearly very gifted at it, it's hard to then say, "But you're not going to do that. You're going to go to this." Do you know what I mean? You've got that talent and that gifting for some reason. I don't know. That's >> It's hard to walk out. >> You know, again, it's this smells like

an escape. >> Yeah. >> Rather than a journey.

>> Yes. >> And um and I don't I it just doesn't smell right. And so, um you you ask our opinions or and we've given a whole three minutes of thought to your whole life. Okay. [laughter] So, it's not really fair to you. But, >> well, he doesn't have to choose between this and that. there are some other routes he can go through before he >> I think it's a false dichotomy that the only way to be happy is to completely leave >> everything that you're doing. Yeah.

>> I I would start by leaving the company that you're in and then see where that takes us first and then >> I would decide [music] from there >> and then is there another way that I can do electrician and own a company that is

electricians and so [music] forth. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 119. No Matter Your Income, You Have To Know Where Your Money Is Going | August 22, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:11:24 |

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[Music] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsy Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show, and my daughter is my co-host today.

Phone number here is88255225.

April is in Michigan. Hi, April. How are you? >> I'm doing excellent. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> Um, we have a an interesting situation.

My mother-in-law is in the end stages of um advanced Alzheimer's disease. Mhm.

>> She's 89 years old and continues to have a decline. >> She was amazing with money. She's got a great nest egg, will live beyond, you

know, her money will live out with her by lots of years. She has a huge coin

collection. Um, and we are trying to figure out how we can best get that appraised by somebody that's reliable.

She has Morgan silver dollars, Liberty Heads, she has gold coins from the 1800s. Some are uncirculated and in mint

condition and others are I mean she has a literal bag of silver dollars that are probably just worth their weight. So the only places around us that would look at the coins are pawn shops and I know that that's not a great place to start. So I'm just looking for advice on how we find a reliable appraiser.

Um, I don't know. The all I did I had a

a box of coins that an elderly uh family

member had given us. Uh, they probably weren't as good as what you've got. Uh,

there were some in there that were valuable. Um, I just I I called around to some jewelry stores and asked who was a coin dealer. I'm looking for a coin dealer, somebody that buys and sells coins. And um and I actually, you know,

just I said, "Okay, if you appraise these for me, um would you be interested

in some of them?" Maybe. And uh the guy did it. And it really was inexpensive.

And I ended up with a huge bag of uh

wheat pennies that we just took to the bank. And and then the other stuff we just sold it to him. And uh there there wasn't anything in there that was outstanding. I think a couple of these things you're describing might be outstanding. I don't know. But you're looking for a coin dealer, a local coin dealer, >> local or even I mean the internet, I bet you could find somebody good.

>> Yeah. The only problem is you don't >> you got to really be able to you're going to have to ship them to them and that can be heavy >> and expensive. And so if if they're out of town and so again, I just we're in the Nashville area and we found a guy here in Nashville that was a coin dealer and um you know, start poking around. Um

I can't remember. I think it was a jewelry store or a friend of mine that owned a pawn shop that told me who the coin dealer was. I might have just found it on Google. I don't remember. It was about it was probably uh eight years ago

or something like that that I did that. So, that's how I did it. It really wasn't some kind of insightful thing. I

just scratched around and found somebody. But that you want somebody that's in the coin world, a coin collector. Um, if you could find somebody that just is running a a local

uh social media page that on coin collection even uh and just start poking

around on that, they they would know someone to appraise it. Um or maybe you could just find somebody that doing it as a hobby to appraise it and pay them for doing that, you know. And and if you felt if you felt good about their knowledge base and um

the thing we didn't want to do is we didn't want to just uh roll it all and send it to the bank and then find out there was one of those stinking wheat pennies that was worth $10,000 or something. And so we had him go through them and he said, "Nope, no, no, no, no, no. >> I don't know what a wheat penny is." >> Yeah. It's a penny that has wheat on it in the early 1900s.

>> Oh. So, um, >> more valuable. >> Uh, no. >> Oh, >> not much.

It might be it might be worth a penny and a half.

>> But, uh, it's not worth screwing with, but most of the time most the ones that

we had weren't. And so, um, >> yeah. Anyway, that that's how we did it, hun. And I just check out. I' I'd run around and uh coin dealers, coin collectors, uh you know, people that do

any kind of uh u art appraising, maybe

someone that does art, they may know someone in the coin world, cuz all of these will fall in the collectibles category as far as uh a hobby or

something goes. Same kind of thing. So, hey, good question. Thanks for calling in. Mary is in New Jersey. Hi, Mary. How are you?

>> I am doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm calling because I want to know if I should take on a new job. Um, just

to an additional job on top of the job I have rather. Um, I have a great job. Um, my husband and I, we have student debt

um of about I think his is 95, mine is

75. Um, we don't really have credit card

debt. Um, and we have a card that we're

making payments on, but we're going to attack that so that we don't have that anymore. Um, I've been watching a lot of your your shows and um, it's really

convicted me and my heart on um, how I

needed to just be more supportive on of my husband as he's um, he's amazing and

he's so wonderful and I just want to be a better teammate with him to attack these debts. Um, we're also fairly new

parents and um, this is the first time in my life where I don't have multiple jobs and I'm spending, you know, I I

work late, but I'm spending time with my daughter as much as I can. Um, and I

just I want to I want to be a team with

my husband so we can do better.

>> So, is he already on board, Mary?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. So, you're the one kind of catching up, I guess, in this sense.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And how long has have you guys been talking about this?

>> Um I So,

he's been So, he read one of the Dave

Ramsey books uh a long a long time ago

and that's actually how we're out of credit card debt. Um I have anxiety and

for the longest time like talking about the finances will kind of make me spin out. I'm in a better place now. on getting help for it. Um, >> good for you. >> And like for the first time, I was able two days ago to like open this massive spreadsheet that he made and look at it without freaking out and say like, "Okay, babe, explain this to me. Tell me how this works." >> That's huge. >> Well, and honestly, Mary, I mean, that's that's the way to be a great teammate.

Do you know what I'm saying? And it's not that you have to go along with every single thing. If you have opinions, too, I think it's healthy to say those and you guys work through it >> together as two adults. But I think getting to a place, which I think we all have in our lives and in our marriages, where you look at your spouse and you're like, "Okay, what you've been doing is better than my plan." And there's a level of humility there to say, "All right, uh, I'm on board.

I want to I want to I want to do this with you." And just that attitude shift, Mary, I mean, give yourself credit because I mean, that's that's huge.

And so um so yeah, you know, if you

think I may need an extra job, I need to maybe bring in some extra money, you guys map that out and just say, okay, what if you did take on an extra job?

How long and how many hours would you have to work for you guys to be debtree in x amount of time? or if you didn't take an extra job as a new mom and you just worked yours, but you know, you guys tightened up the budget other ways, it would probably take you a little bit longer, but maybe y'all are okay with that for the season as new parents, right? So, it gets down to a values conversation between the both of you at that point to decide how fast do we want to do this? How aggressive do we want to do it?

And the faster you do it, Mary, the faster you're out.

And you guys do that together. But I'm excited for you guys. I think it's awesome. And I'm sure your husband's jumping up and down inside that he got that he got you on board.

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[Music]

Helen, New York. Hi Helen. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So my husband wants to buy a seven

passenger family type luxury car that

will cost about $90,000.

and I am fine with him buying the car,

but when it comes down to actually purchasing it each time he stops and says, "Oh, there's better stuff we could do with our money. We shouldn't spend this on a car, but we have no debt. Our

house is paid off. He makes over

$400,000 a year.

I don't want him to buy a cheaper car

like a Chevy or a Ford and then not be

happy and have the regret that I should have spent the money on the more expensive car that I really want.

>> How old is he?

>> He is in his 60s 62.

>> Okay. And $400,000 a year income, no

debt, house is paid for included. How much is in you guys nest egg? What's your net worth?

over four million. >> Okay. All right. The way that my wife and I make these decisions, Helen, is um

we ask ourselves if we take that amount of money, $90,000, and we burn it in the middle of

the floor, does it affect our life? And the answer

in your equation is other than you would cry, it would not affect your life.

>> Correct? You could throw $90,000 out the window of the house and watch the neighbors scramble and it would not affect your life.

You would you would you wouldn't even know what happened because you have $4 million plus a paid for house plus a $400,000 income. This is a very

reasonable purchase given your numbers.

And I just that way I know I'm not being irresponsible. If you flinch when you do

it, not from the emotions, but from the mathematics. And I'll give you an example. Okay? If you told me it was 400K, >> well, that's one year's income. That's 10% of your net worth. That's too much.

>> Okay. >> Yes. >> And so that mathemat says I would feel it.

>> Helen, how did he grow up? What was his upbringing?

So, we both grew up with uh parents that

probably struggled a little while we were growing up, but then did better.

>> We have never had credit card debt.

We've never made like crazy car

purchases. >> This is not a crazy college, >> right? >> We paid off our loans.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> What car? >> Because to me, it's not a math problem.

He knows math. He's a smart guy. He's making $400,000 a year. I mean, like he's he's smart. It's not a math problem. This is all an emotional problem. There's fear driving this.

There's stress. There's a level of control. I mean, like, you know what I mean? Like all of that >> has a desire to be responsible. And my point is it's not irresponsible.

>> I don't think it's a desire. I think he has been responsible. >> I know. I mean, that he's afraid he's being irresponsible, >> right? Which comes out of fear. The motivator. Yeah. Is is is is irrational.

You know what I mean? So, >> what car is it?

>> It's a BMW. And and I just don't want

him to buy a cheaper car.

>> Well, I don't care about that. I want I do want him to buy a cheaper car if he can't afford it. >> So, but but in this case, he can afford the Beamer. Go get it. Yeah, I definitely would buy this car.

>> You can tell him I said >> I don't want him I don't want him in two years to say, "Oh, I should have bought it." >> Well, you know what? >> We bought We're getting rid of and we're buying it. >> Yeah, that's not the reason he should buy it. Yeah, I disagree.

The reason he should buy it is the amount of money is irrelevant because you guys have done such a good job and you should enjoy your life. >> Yeah. Because he could buy the Ford and then in two years regret it and go buy the Beamer and nothing would I mean like that's fine, right? Like that's not the thing.

The issue I would have with him is what is going on within you? That's the fascinating thing about money is we always say, you know, take control of your money. Do a budget. You be the one to control your money.

And we do that because so many people they're not in control and it's like they have no clue where it's going. And on one end we see that and then on the other end people take the extreme of take control and it's such control that it almost becomes an idol. This level of like I don't want to let go and that stress and anxiety that's not freedom either, right? So you have to find that balance and it's hard because we see we see this a lot I feel like of people that have worked the plan and paid off their house and they >> they don't want to go on vacation because they're so fearful.

Oh god, am I going to mess this up? Is this okay? And that's in much bondage, right? I mean, from an emotional sense, >> live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

make sure your generosity is where it should be. Make sure your investing is where it should be. Make sure if you're going to consume or blow some money on something

>> that it's a an amount of money that does not affect your life >> and it's a small enough ratio, small enough percentage of that and so you

don't have to think about it. And you're there, you've worked your tail off. You guys have worked your tails off for 40 years. You've earned the right to do this. Not because of their hard work, but because of the results of your hard work. If you worked your whole life, really if you worked really hard and saved no money and had no money, then you haven't earned the right to buy the beamer, but you have the pile of money

>> as a result of your hard work. And so, you should enjoy the fruits of your labor at this point. That's how we ought to do it. Good question. Tyson's in Boisee, Idaho. Hey Tyson, what's up?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call today. Sure. First time uh first time calling in. >> Well, we're honored.

>> Couple things. So, I've always kind of lived my wife and I have uh lived Dave Dave Ramsey adjacent is kind of like my my affectionate way of saying >> that means you were right part of the time.

>> We have six months of savings uh like emergency fund. Um, we have we put 18 to

19% of our annual income into retirement. That includes 401k and maxing out Ross for each of us each year. Um, we have a small amount about five grand each in our twins uh the five

years old twins uh college accounts. So, we're doing some stuff. My one question is we have $19,000 worth of truck debt.

Um, the truck isn't upside down. It's a nice Toyota Tundra. Just looking for some advice. Should we borrow from ourselves and our Roth?

>> No. >> Or should we just or should we just continue down the path of paying this thing off in six to eight months?

>> Well, don't you have money saved in an emergency fund?

>> We do. And I don't I I guess there's

prepition on should we pull the money out of our six month fund just to pay that down? >> Yes. >> Seems like a dumb question. >> You should pay you should pay your truck off today or you should sell it. One of the two.

>> Okay. One of the one of the two. Um, >> I pay it off today and then then I would take the 6 months and rebuild my emergency fund.

>> That's easy enough. And then we're working to pay off our house after that.

So, we're we're getting there, man. We're we're super close. >> Exactly. Yeah. It's pretty simple. And don't buy another truck, dude. Unless you have the money and you write the check. No more debt. The key to building

wealth is not having stupid truck payments. And I like I drove my truck

today. I like a good truck. There's nothing wrong with that. But >> you parked it kind of sideways. Well, it's because that way nobody can hit the door on the new Raptor. >> My Tesla is literally parked right next to you at the charger station. I thought his parking you people that charge cars can hit other people's doors. I know about you people. So, I park it where you can't get to my Raptor and mess it up. So, >> don't mess up Don't mess up my truck.

Well, you're the one picking on my parking style. But the uh Anyway, the

>> James knows it's intentional. It's not cuz I don't know how to park. Okay. So, let's keep you people off my truck. But anyway, the Yeah, I I want you to get a truck, Tyson. I want your truck to get you. And truck payments are when you folks, when you sign a car payment agreement and you say, "I want a car payment." Right under that, it says, "I

am committed to being in the middle class the rest of my life." Car payments are the mantra, the the

motto of the middle class.

You're always going to have a car payment. You might as well have a big one.

Just get what you want. Life's too short. Got to have a airbag on the

passenger side. That's not my mother-in-law.

We got Everybody's got a saying about a car. They always, you know, it's not safe. My little babies are all going to die because the car is four years old.

Oh, shut up.

Car payments are basically signing up

and saying, "Yeah, >> I want to be in the middle class." What do you take >> from age 25 to 65?

>> If you didn't have a $700 car payment every month and you just invested it, you'd have 4.4 million at 65.

>> Hope you like the car. >> There you go. There's your $4 million car. >> Broke your middle class thing and turns you into upper class. You be upper class now.

[Music]

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

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And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. >> You guys, that is so concerning because that info then can be used in fishing scams, impersonation, and even harassment.

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[Music]

You ever wanted to see the person calling on this show instead of just hearing them? You ever want to see the show done live? We do it on the glass every day, Monday through Friday from 1 to 4. And you can stop by Ramsey Solutions anytime.

and we have free coffee and wonderful homemade cookies. >> A wonderful audience today. >> And uh we've always got >> beautiful people, >> 50 to 200 folks out here hanging out with us. And so if you ever want to do that, we'd love to have you come by.

Oh, and by the way, we're taking the Ramsey Show on the road. We're going to do a little tour this fall. So you can experience the live Q&A. You can be part of the live Q&A.

local debtfree scream. It's all happening live and we're going to do two of them in the fall. It's the first time we've ever done this. And uh we launched it about 3 or 4 days ago and it's all

almost sold out. There's just a handful of tickets. So this probably don't even need to do this ad, but we're going to tell you about it and you can finish off the last few tickets if you want.

Rachel, Ken, and George will be doing the show in Chicago on September 30th.

And tickets are a whole $39. And there's only about three or 400 seats a night.

So that's why it just disappeared. It evaporated in just a couple days. You can't get in. And so you may be able to get tickets to either one of these by the time you hear this. So check. But I they're going really they're just about gone. Jade, John, and George will take the stage in Orlando couple days later,

October the 2nd.

Uh so you can't feel this kind of hope through the headphones. You got to be there. Click the link in the show notes and get signed up or go to ramiesolutions.comvents.

again. Uh, September 30th in Chicago, October the 2nd in Orlando. Colin is in

Michigan. Hey, Colin. How are you?

>> Hey, good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, I got a quick question for you. So, I'm a junior in college and I have about $85,000 in my 20 529 account. Um, I was

wondering if I should be using that just for tuition and material costs or if I could be using it for my living expenses as well. I think you can use it for your living expenses as well as far as the onampus housing and that kind of thing.

You'd need to check that because I'm not positive doing that off the top of my head. Um, have you gotten any scholarships?

>> Yes. So that Yes. So my scholarships cover about 50% of the cost.

>> The only other cost I pay is about $35,000 in tuition every semester.

>> Okay. You can you can remove the value of your scholarships from your 529 without penalty.

Oh, okay. Really? >> And then you could use that for living expenses for sure.

>> Okay. >> Or or anything you want to use it for for that matter. But uh technically >> Yeah. How much per semester are you getting in scholarships, Colin?

>> Uh about $3,500.

>> Okay. I'm just thinking because you have how much in the 529?

>> 85 or 83.

>> Yeah. So you've gotten $7,000 a year for two or three years, right?

>> Yep. That's correct. >> Okay. So, I mean, you pull probably 25 out of it without any trouble at all.

Uh, you've just got to be able in the case of an audit, you've got to be able to document the amount, the value of the

scholarship. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And uh so sometimes scholarships are are not an actual dollar amount. They're just a thing that they're giving you and you need to put a value on that thing if you get something like that, like if you got free housing or something, >> that kind of a thing. Uh so, um but yeah, you can pull that much out.

So, I know that can be done. As far as the remaining money, can it actually be used for living expenses?

>> Qualified. Okay. Qualified home.

>> And Colin, you can roll over 35,000 of it when the account's been open for 15 years into your Roth IRA. Uh, that >> Yes, I did know that. >> Okay. Yeah. So, that passed, which is great. So, yeah. So, if you which you'll be close to that is um with the 24,000.

>> There's a bunch of stipulations on that.

That's under Biden's Secure Act and it's not great. >> Oh, really? I've heard people starting to do Okay. >> It's very difficult. You You can do it.

>> Well, I would do it then.

Sit there. >> I'd clean it out. >> He's not He's not going to be able to clean it out. He's got 83,000 20ome in scholarships. It's $50,000. He's not going to live on $50,000 in two years.

>> Probably not. Yeah. So I would look >> the other thing you can do is you actually can >> you can hold it. It can be used for your kids someday. >> You can be used for your spouse someday.

It could be used for >> Would you keep it in or would you try to roll it to a rock? >> Once you realize how hard it is to roll, I might keep it for a while >> and just wait for >> Well, I mean during the 15 years you got to wait anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. >> A lot of your life's going to happen. Then you could decide more intelligently. But you don't have to decide that today.

Yeah. >> You have to leave it in there for that period of time. So, or be penalized >> unless his parents opened it when he was two >> and it's 19.

>> Correct. Isn't it when you start the 529? >> Don't know. Okay. >> I don't know. I I I had it under the impression after you finished school that the 15 years started and so you were up in your before you could do it.

>> I don't know. >> But I some options, Colin, but at least use it for living expenses. >> The main thing I would do is I'd get the scholarship money out and I'd use it for living expenses. And then let's see what's left. What's left hopefully will be negligible and it won't matter. Um and that that would be good. You've done a great job by the way. Dad free school.

Way to go Colin. Yeah.

>> All right. Matt's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Matt.

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, Dave, I guess I'm just struggling with a career problem because um I got

married in 2014 and ever since then I've

only been making 40,000 a year in the different jobs I've had up through this point and I'm trying to figure out a way to grow in a career and it just seems like all I'm doing is working and exhausting myself, coming home tired and I'm just and I feel just so spent like I

just don't know what to do anymore.

>> What do you do?

I'm a del package delivery driver. Oh, >> okay. Yeah, that's hard work. Yeah. So, you're putting in 40 hours and you working for like UPs or you working for Amazon or what?

>> FedEx. >> FedEx. The other one. Okay. Left one out. Sorry. >> Okay. Um, so what are you making? Like 60 or 70?

>> No, I'm making 40. >> Oh, you said 40. Really? I thought FedEx drivers did better than that. Okay.

>> I wish. >> Okay. Um,

all right. Well, it it it comes down to a couple of things. Uh, obviously what

you've done is you took a job because you're a responsible person so that you could pay your bills and eat and feed your family, right?

>> Yes. Absolutely. >> That's your first big deal. Get people to do that sometimes is hard. And then the second once you once you've got that covered then the second thing to do is okay ask the question that you're asking so you're you're doing all the things in the right order and the question is okay now how do I move careers into something

that I can make 140,000 what's that look

like and then you start asking yourself okay what are those careers what are the things I'm good at what are my natural bents uh what might what training might I need to get that I haven't had to move into that area. Um, you know, but, uh,

there's probably something you've dreamed about doing. Maybe opening your own business. I mean, I don't know, but I I know guys running pressure washing companies that are making 100K.

>> Okay. H >> And obviously that's not rocket science,

>> right? Yeah. >> You don't have to go back and get the pressure washing degree, right? So, no, >> you run down to Home Depot, buy one, and knock on somebody's door and here we go.

And so, um, you know, so I I but you've

but you've got to lean into it and you got to be aggressive and ambitious and all those kinds of things. And you have all of that because you're asking this question. That's what that tells me. If you weren't asking us questions where we'd really have a problem. >> Is there anything, Matt, in your head that you've always thought about or kind of dream about an ideal career?

>> If I could do this and make $150,000 a year, what would it be?

Well, honestly, to tell you the truth, I would love to, you know, teach people how to get out of debt because I mean, my wife and I have been debtree and we have an emergency fund. We've been following you for the last 10 years and um we're just we've just been struggling to save for a house, but I mean we and

the fact that there that we've been only made this much money and we've been able to get this far, I mean, tells me that, you know, I can do this and I can teach other people how helping people is a big thing. Yeah. Well, Ken Coleman talks about um find the work you're wired to do and there's elements of people where there's like kind of this natural >> thing that comes out of them, right? So, for you it's helping people and it may be in the avenue of money.

It could be something else that you realize, oh my gosh, I'm really good at that. Um, but if you hang on the line, Matt, we'll send you Ken's book and there's an assessment uh at the at the end of the book which you can take. It's a code and you can log in and it's an incredible assessment that asks you all these questions and it kind of pairs down some things just to get the juices flowing if you will, right? Just to kind of give you some ideas.

>> It'll help give you some guidance in what direction you could go. And if you want to learn to be a Ramsey coach, we have a Ramsey coach certification program. You can check that out online, too. Some of those coaches make good money.

Some of them don't do much coaching.

[Music]

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Cameron in Kansas. My wife and I are on baby steps four, five, and six. We were both raised by hardcore Ramsay followers except my dad who became a little Ramsayish once he hit baby step seven. He opened up a credit card in my name when I went to college so I could easily buy a house one day. The card lives in his basement

and is only used once a month for the family television subscription bill which is paid off every month. I've never seen the card. My wife and I don't care about having good credit. Should I ask my dad to cancel the card so my credit score disappears or just leave it alone since it's not hurting anything?

Oh, I would get rid of this.

>> This is gross. >> I would get rid of it, Cameron.

>> I mean, I'm not worried about the credit thing. It's your violation of your boundaries. You're like an adult and stuff. My card lives in my dad's

basement.

That's whacked.

Yeah. How about you chop up the card and close the account like a grown man and your dad doesn't interfere in a grown man's life?

If he wants to do something with his life, he can go do something with his life. But he shouldn't be doing this with his grown son. I would no more do something like that to one of my children than fly to the moon. Even if I was right, you know, and in this case, he's both things a boundary violator and not right. >> So yeah. No. Oh yeah, you should definitely call him and go, "Dude, we're not doing this anymore. Chop, chop, chop, close, close, close." Pay for your

>> Yeah, that's a good point.

>> With all this stuff, it's like whatever.

But it's it is the boundary violation that your dad has a financial string

attached to you basically who that he's in kind of in charge of. It's weird.

Weird. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's way out of control. All right. In Virginia, it is is it LAR? Is

that right? Yes, sir. Hi, Dave. >> Hey, what's up?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

>> Sure. >> Um, my wife and I are both 26 years old.

We're completely out of debt and we're currently on baby step number four.

>> Good. >> Um, my question for you is we're trying

to figure out how aggressive we need to be with purchasing our first home. So, we currently rent here in Northern Virginia, just outside of DC. And our rent is pretty expensive, but we have good jobs out here, so we we stick around. Um, but I know that you say

during steps, baby step one, two, and three, you need to be like a gazelle with some fire underneath you. And we've definitely done that. Um, but now that we're on baby step number four, we're not quite sure how much of our income to put towards our uh our first home.

Well, obviously the more you put towards it, the more the down payment is and the smaller the debt is. So, as much as we

can do and still accomplish some of these other things, we call this baby step 3B. You may have heard us talk about that when you're between baby step three where you finished your get out of debt plan, except your house. You don't you're say now saving for a house and you've got your emergency fund in place.

So, that's after baby step three in other words, but before we start baby step four. Some people put everything

they can scrape together towards a down payment to build up a big one very quick and delay starting baby step four or 15%

of your income going into retirement for two or three years to pile up a big old pile of cash for down payment. That's the one end of the extreme. The other end of the extreme is to put all 15% away into retirement and do as much down payment as you can do above that.

Anywhere in between is okay. Sometimes people do 10% for retirement and then load their down payment fund as quick as they can. Anywhere in there is all we want to do. I do not want to delay starting retirement more than about three, maybe four years.

>> And the lowest amount of a down payment we recommend is 5%. But if you can do more, obviously that's that's better. So what's your household income?

>> So our household income uh gross is

about $160,000 a year. Good. Very good.

Okay. >> So, we we um we currently are putting about $1,000 a month in into a um a high

yield savings account to save up for our our down payment. Ideally, we would like about $100,000. Um so, we can do about

20% on our first home is what our goal is. Um >> you're not going to get there at $1,000 a month, >> right? which is, you know, we're we're trying to figure out, you know, should we cut out certain things in our life to help us get there sooner? >> Have you started the retirement savings?

>> We are. We have about 15% of our income

is is going towards retirement. >> How how much is that per month, do you know what that would be cashwise if you put it back in your paycheck?

>> Um, I'm not sure. Um, I would imagine

>> um it's it's somewhere around two two to

two and a half thousand. >> Yeah. I'm I I I would look at stopping my retirement temporarily and throwing all of that in the down payment because that starts to be $36,000 a year. That puts you in a house in three years at your $100,000 goal and then you start your retirement.

>> Okay. >> You're not going to get there at $12,000 a year. >> And you guys are 24. Is that what you said? >> Uh 26. >> 26. Okay. >> So you'll be 29 buying a house with $100,000 down. Start your retirement.

then you'll be multi-millionaires.

>> That sounds lovely. >> Yeah, I that I just don't I don't think the 12 is that sounds like a 10-year plan. That's not a plan, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, that that's kind of where we're where our head is at, too, when we really looked at it. Uh we're not sure how long it's going to take us to get there with especially with housing only going up. So, >> Exactly.

Exactly. So yeah, I think 36 months of saving and delaying your retirement. I just said 3 to four years and doing 100% of your game plan on the debt snowball. I mean on the down payment fund instead of be funding retirement temporarily is what I would do cuz I'd be wanting to get into a house and I think you are too.

So yeah, that that makes a lot of sense with the math in your situation.

>> you know, and get get to their good strong down payment. And that's a 20% down is what he's aiming at. And that, by the way, if you put down 20% on a Fanny May, a standard conventional mortgage, which is the least expensive mortgage of the of the conforming mortgages. And if you put down 20%, you avoid PMI, private mortgage insurance, which is about $75 a month per 100,000

borrowed.

And so it's, you know, it's uh 300 bucks

a month for a $400,000 mortgage if you don't put down 20%. That's a lot.

>> Again, that's 3600 bucks a year. That

starts to be almost 1% of your mortgage amount that you're paying out in insurance. And all private mortgage insurance is, folks, it's insurance that the mortgage company requires you to buy for them in the event they have to

foreclose on you and they lose money on

the house cuz you didn't put it down a big payment down payment, then uh then

this insurance covers the difference.

And they don't require that if you put down 20% because they've got the margin.

They know with that loan to value ratio that they're safe and they're not if they did have to foreclose, they're not going to lose money. But when you're north of 80% on the loan to value, if you don't put down at least 20%, then uh then they're going to require that and it's expensive and it's useless. It's basically foreclosure insurance for the mortgage company, but you have to pay for it. That's why it's aggravating and

and so yeah, I I love to see people put

down% because of that. But again, first-time home buyers, Rachel's right, we we don't yell at you for putting down 5%, but you're paying a premium when you do that, >> right? Well, and I mean, it's kind of that like tension of the market's not going down, right? And so if you have to wait another three, four, five years to save the 20%, could you get in earlier >> from a cheaper, you know, standpoint of like it's it's kind of a little bit of that that game you kind of have to play.

But >> no, by the way, just as a side note, if you did take out a mortgage that has MIP, mortgage insurance premium on FHA

or PMI, when you do get it paid down to

that ratio, you can request they stop it. you have the right to stop paying

for the insurance once it gets down to there. If you're doing it based on the fact that the value has gone up and now I've got 20% equity, not just paid it down to 80%. You may have to pay for an

appraisal, but a $400 or $500 appraisal

is nothing compared to the cost of PMI.

>> That's a good point. >> And so, um, you know, that's not a big deal. Now, don't just go get any appraisal. You've got to get one that's approved by your mortgage company cuz they're the ones have to accept it in order to drop the PMI. So, you can get

out of this. It's not forever, but you just kind of got to be thoughtful about how you're doing it and not just assume you're going to have it forever cuz you don't want it forever. It's too stinking expensive.

[Music]

[Music] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show. Welcome back. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. Number one bestselling author and my daughter. Joe is with us in North Carolina. Hi Joe.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm looking to transition from my

full-time job to doing my side business full-time, and I'm just wondering how to set myself up financially when I'm ready to make that move.

Well, the best way to do it is to raise the income of the side business to where it's within reach of your day job.

>> Okay? >> In other words, we always say pull the boat up really close to the dock before you so you can step into the boat

instead of having to leap and hope you hit the boat. So, okay.

>> Meaning, uh, So, what is your income on your side business now?

>> Right now, it's only about a,000 a month. working weekends.

>> Working weekends only.

>> Yeah, it's basically just Saturdays.

>> What do you do?

>> Uh mobile mechanic.

>> Oh, good. Okay, cool. And um so you got

the truck and the tools and so forth.

>> Yes. >> Okay, that's neat. Um and what do you

make on your day job?

um around 93 a year depending on overtime before everything.

>> Okay. So jumping from 93 to 12 is not a

plan. >> That's too scary.

>> Um and there's two reasons it's too scary. Number one, um you if you had a big old savings account, you'd burn through it to cover the difference.

>> Number two, you don't have proof that

this business will scale.

All you've got is $1,000 a month worth of proof. And I want more proof than that before I bet the farm on it, so to speak. >> So, yeah, >> what can we do to add more hours and more income to the mobile business to get it to >> gosh, let's get it to 60,000 from 12,000.

>> Yeah. It would basically be a time issue. Yeah. >> Um because like I I've have work coming in, but I can't even get to it all because I just don't have the time for it, you know?

Why?

>> Um just because >> they only want to do it during work hours.

>> A lot of the times, but I don't have time during the week after my full-time job. And so like that's why I push off Saturday. >> Um just because of my schedule for the day, you know, I'm out of the house early and then home later. And

>> so you're working more than 40 at your day job.

>> Uh a lot of the times, yeah, >> because if you're working 40, you do have time. Can you pull back on your main job, Adam, and start supplementing some of those hours? Maybe like twice, like two nights a week.

>> Yeah, I might be able to. It's just it's not predictable. So, getting this getting everything scheduled, like if I had a job scheduled, then that day at work, something happens and I'm unable to make it, you know, >> for your full-time job, you mean? >> What do you do? What do you do during the day? >> I'm a diesel mechanic.

>> So, why would you have to stay after?

What was that? >> What do you mean if something happens during the day? What would happen during the day? >> Like if I'm on a job and it doesn't go as planned, you know, and then it ends up turning into a later uh takes longer

than it should. You know what I mean?

>> And you have to stay there to finish that job. You can't just like >> you can't roll you can't roll it till the next morning.

>> No. And then there's also emergencies uh emergency call outs as well that happen.

How much of that job going over what is

supposed to an emergency do you really have?

>> Um it it depends.

>> I know.

>> But how much do you really have >> for time? >> No. How often does that really happen?

Or how often are you just electing to stay late?

>> No. No. I don't elect. Like I I would like uh 40 hours is fine for me. Like I

don't that's the other that's why I'm trying to do the side business cuz I don't need all the you know I money is good but it's not like I I don't need all the hours and stuff like that. Like we're in a pretty good spot where we don't need all that extra >> Yeah. >> income. I don't want to say you know it's bad but >> So how much how much mobile business are you turning away?

Um, it probably ends up being one or two

jobs a week just because I tell them I'm out a couple weeks and then >> which is which is which is how much how much is a job worth on average.

>> Uh be like three to 500 depending. Some are more but yeah roughly around there.

>> So a,000 bucks a week possibly you're turning away. So close to $4,000 is what you could be doing on a minimum.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I kind of did the math. Figured it out that way. But >> yeah, I want you to start taking those jobs and booking them.

>> Even if you and just tell them if something blows up at work, I may have to push you a day.

>> But I I'm going to other if I'm I'm going to be there Tuesday, but if I get blown up Tuesday, I'm going to move it to Wednesday and we'll get to you. Okay.

I want you to start I want you to pick up some stuff, a couple of those jobs a night, >> a couple during the week nights and get this up to $3,000 anyway. Have you got any savings?

Yeah, I have uh me and my wife have about 120 in in 401ks and then we got

about another 20 just in regular savings. >> You ain't got enough to do this. Okay.

You can't >> That's what I was wondering. I was I was wondering if I should open another savings account and kind of put a bunch of money in there. >> Yeah. To have that you're not going to be able to get I'd like for somebody making 94 to get their income to 60 to

70 before they make the leap.

>> And you're not going to be able to do that in the situation you're in. But maybe we can get you up, maybe we can get you up to, you know, 36 or 40 or something >> and have a good healthy savings account.

Those would be the two things I would do. I would not make this leap with any amount of savings in the bank >> when I only have a $1,000 income.

>> Yeah, exactly. >> Because you have not proven the business idea is scalable. You think it is,

>> but you have not proven it. And you're counting, the family's counting on you to prove it >> for what, 6 months consistently >> that it's coming in and then make the jump. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, if you can get another $2,000 um a week, that gets you to

36,000 by beefing up your Saturday a

little bit tighter, working more hours.

You're going to burn some c you're going to burn some candle oil here. Okay?

You're going to burn the candle at both ends in order to get this thing going.

That's the price you're going to pay to do this. Otherwise, you're gonna take a leap of faith, which is called stupidity. >> Well, and and again, it's it's this the the whole working to and trying to get this going. Again, it's it's for six months. So, you think about that. I mean, by February, >> work like a crazy month and do it and

then make the kids are whining, your wife's whining because they never see you. And honey, that's the price we pay to get this other business up and running enough that we can trust it >> for me to walk out of this other one.

>> Yeah. And uh I think you can do it. I

think what you're doing is marketable uh in a world where >> oh my gosh convenience convenience and luxury items convenience items and luxury items and you're both are u are

at a premium and uh they're the types of

businesses that are doing the best and so I I think you're in the right place.

>> Mobile grooming of dogs, the the the mechanics that come to your house. I mean all the I know exactly that's what I'm saying. I'm like, the convenience world out there is just growing and growing and people are >> I am not betting your family's future on that when you've only made $12,000 a year. I would not do that. That's bad

business acumen. So, we want we want more social proof, more proof in the marketplace that we can actually turn this into money. And uh if you could get it up to 36,000 and hold it there for 6 months and be about to collapse cuz all you do is work all the time, I'd be ready to I'd be ready to try it. If you especially if you had some savings and if your wife has an in good income, we failed to ask about that.

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[Music]

Denise is with us in Memphis. Hi, Denise. How are you?

>> Doing okay. >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, I'm trying to figure out is there ever a point where you're actually saving too much? >> No.

>> Well, the Bible may I'm messing with you. I'm

messing with you. That's fun. Okay. So,

why do you think you're saving too much?

Well, we have seven kids and it just seems like things are super super tight and my husband's very anxious about money. >> Mhm.

Okay. Well, uh are the kids eating?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What is super tight?

>> Um it's just uh sometimes we dip down

into the savings and then we dip back out and it's just um >> in order to do what? in order to just do

general living. >> What's general living?

>> Like well insurance, groceries.

Um >> so you're saving so much that you're not budgeting properly for groceries.

>> Well, no. We're we're we're budgeting for groceries. I'm just saying I said properly. Seems like there's >> If you're budgeting properly, you would never dip into savings for groceries unless you were overspending on groceries.

>> Yeah. It just it just it just we don't

have any it feels like we don't have any breathing room >> any margin in your budget.

>> Yeah, >> it feels like >> How much How much do you guys make a year?

>> 150,000. >> Okay. Well, that's enough to feed seven kids.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you shouldn't have a problem.

Where do you think the overspending is occurring?

Um well, we're doing like 10 and a half%

into the um 401k, 3,500 in the HSA, and

then we're doing um an additional 15K in

the Roth. Um I honestly think that insurance and groceries is just eating our lunch lately.

>> How much are you spending on groceries?

>> Um so it a it's okay. groceries plus

what we pay to the school. I would say about 1,500 a month.

>> Are they in private paid to the school?

>> No. No, no, no. Just like it just cost us $100 every week for all five kids to

eat at school >> for lunch.

>> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. All right. And um that that would

be but that's not killing you on 100. So Okay. Do you have a house debt?

>> No. And you don't owe anything on your home? >> No, sir. >> And you don't owe any other debt?

>> No. >> Okay. >> And and and and we have a lot in

savings. We kind of did everything opposite of everyone. We paid everything off first and then we had kids. And so we have a a sizable retirement fund. And

it just feels very strange to still be um in a situation where my husband's getting upset about money when we're supposed to be doing that well on paper.

That makes sense.

>> Yeah. Are you guys funding? You're giving out dollar amounts for your savings.

>> Yeah. >> Is that what percentage wise is that coming out? >> She said 10 a.5 plus 15,000

or 15%. >> Yeah. for the no 15,000 for the Roth plus the 3,500 for the HSA a year.

>> A year. Yeah, that'd be right. Okay.

That's $18,000 out of 150.

>> Yeah. >> That's not That's not causing you a problem. That's not causing you a problem. You know what? You know what? You guys are not doing a detailed every dollar budget that the two of you sit down and agree to before the month begins.

You're throwing money in savings and hoping you can live with what's left over. And when chaos hits, you dip back into the savings.

>> Yeah. And usually by the next month we're savings is pretty much where it was before, but it's just

my my husband's just very stressed.

>> Yeah. I heard that three times. You know why he's stressed? Because he doesn't have a plan, not because of the money.

So, if you will start the month before the month begins, get the every dollar budget, download it, we'll give you the premium upgrade for free, and the two of you, both of you sit down and go, "Okay, here's what insurance costs

that comes out of this. Here's what lights cost. Here's what water costs.

Here's what the school lunches cost.

Here's what the grocery store costs." And then we save money.

I think you're going to find you have enough to do all of it >> because you guys are bringing home what what's hitting your account Denise every month? 9,000ish.

>> 10. >> Um 8,641.

>> Something's wrong. What what is coming out of that check? That's only $100,000.

>> Um there's a little bit of savings for a trip that him and my daughter want to do. Um he, you know, obviously >> coming out of his check.

>> No, no, no. afterwards. Um, his check, uh, just insurance cost and then the 10 and a half% for Roth and the 3,500 for

the HSA. That's my >> $18,000. We're 50 down.

>> Yeah, it's like 120 after taxes. So,

yeah, I mean, it should be around 10.

>> No, it's like a h 100,000 after taxes.

Yeah. And so, yeah, you there's some you

got something coming out of your check that's screwing up, too. Are you guys getting a large tax refund?

Um, we do and I throw that into the

emergency fund or into the um >> Yeah, but that's not what No, we don't need a tax refund. That's a savings account with the IRS that pays no interest and they give it to you once a year. Santa Claus does not live in Washington DC. You need to adjust your W TWS >> and uh get the proper amount coming home so that there's no tax refund. That will help your cash flow because you're not bringing home enough. There's something wrong with your home coming home figure. I I I honestly feel like if we weren't

if we like took home the amount that we get in the tax refund every year, I feel like it would be pretty much spot on.

Honestly, >> you have a feeling, but you don't know because y'all don't live on a budget.

You guys have got to do a written detailed plan. You're chaotic and he's

saving money on one side and you're over here trying to keep the family held together with duct tape and bailing wire on the other side because you don't have a freaking plan. You need a plan before

the month begins. Every dollar needs to be addressed and I want to know why I make 150,000 and I'm only getting home with a hundred because that the numbers you're giving me don't add up to that.

So you guys got to get into this stuff and learn where your freaking money's going. then make the proper amount come home and quit hoping that an IRS tax

refund bails you out of your lack of or organization and planning skills. So you

have to manage this like it matters. If you don't make these dollars behave, they are not going to behave and your husband is going to remain stressed out and you're going to remain feeling like, well, we should be able to do this, but it's all that savings. And it's not all that savings. The savings is not the math problem. You've given us the numbers. It's not there.

So, I know where the money's going. It's going to chaos and disorganization.

That's where it's going. If you guys will give every dollar an and assignment every month for the rest of your life, like your life depended on it, and the two of you agree to it, you're going to have all of this angst removed from your

position, the anxiety you're feeling, and the anxiety he's feeling. But you're not going to get rid of it by just tossing these numbers up in the air and trying to juggle them. You're throwing them around like you're a circus act.

And you've got to you got to set them down. Make them everyone behave. I can hear it. I've done this for 30 years. I can hear it in the process. You're using even discussing it with me. So, you can do this. You have the money to be okay.

But you this and I've given you the antidote. Now, the only question is whether you're going to do it or not.

So, go to Every Dollar. We're going to give you the Every Dollar. Help them download that Kelly and get it the premium version and we'll pay for it.

Give it to her as a gift because honey, you can do this. It's very doable. It's very doable. And please don't ever say

we can't be responsible because we have a large family.

>> I don't think she did. >> She didn't. She didn't. >> I was going to say I don't think >> she didn't. But I get that all the time. I hear that Dave, you can't do the Dave Ramsey plan if you have a large family. And then we have people eight kids stand up here and do a debtree screen.

>> So they do it all the time. As a matter of fact, it's the only way you can be responsible with a large family is to be responsible and work a plan. It's the only you don't have an option. It's like

when you have seven kids, you don't have an option of one of them being a brat.

They have to behave. So large families,

the kids, they they don't have none of them are confused that they're the center of the world. But if if you got one or two, one of them can get confused about that. >> So, you know, it goes with the territory. It's a wonderful part of having a large family, but you have to be organized. You know, other thing large families can do, they can take pictures quickly.

They're >> efficient. They're organized. They line up. They line up and little ducks. And

then we take a picture real quick.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead like a rat in a wheel, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities. Rachel Wind's your next one. >> It is uh Monday. >> Oh, there we Monday at noon >> going to show you how to stick to a budget and most people are finding between5 and $10,000 worth of margin

using every dollar so that jumpst starts your get out of debt plan. You really start building wealth and you can ask questions during the live Q&A. Sign up for free. Did I mention it's free at ramseyolutions.com/webinar.

Is the Q&A interesting, Rachel?

>> Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, we get to do a couple of live questions and it's usually about someone's situation or something in every dollar that they're like, "Okay, well, how do I do this or that?" And yeah, so it's very helpful.

>> How's that function? Yeah.

>> Mhm. >> Okay, cool. All right. Adam is with us in Springfield. Hi, Adam. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Uh, I have a couple cart question. Um, I

grew up in a landscape family. I was familyowned. I took over part of my dad's business and my family grew. I

sold it and now I'm starting from scratch and so we're about $5,000 of monthly

income. >> Good. >> We take home. >> Good. Um,

my wife and I, we uh, when I was young,

my father helped me buy a farm and my

wife and I sold it to buy a home and

incurred a lot of capital gains tax.

Uh, our company was running a lot of old trucks. So, to get around the tax, we did uh, 179 and bought a new work truck to replace those before we sold the business. Now we're $61,000 in debt for

that truck. And I know it's stupid. It's crazy. I didn't No excuses.

Um, we're selling that home and buying

another property.

Uh, borrowing 295,000 and we have

180,000 that we can that we have coming

back to us from that home we're selling.

And I don't know what steps we should do because >> Okay. What price range truck do you need to operate the business? It's not the one you have.

>> I don't I don't know exactly. So I we

ran all cash trucks for our first couple of years. >> Yeah. >> That are like5 to $10,000 trucks.

>> Yeah. >> And we still have a couple of those old trucks sitting around. And they were posted. >> But I've start I've started listening to your stuff just in the past week. And my

father used to listen to you years ago when I was a kid. But I started listening to you recently. And I started thinking, I wonder if I should sell that new truck and just pay their repair fees on these old trucks and use them.

>> Yep. >> Um.

>> Yep. So in business, whatever equipment

we need, whether it's me with a microphone or you with a weed eater, whatever equipment we need to operate the business is a valid

investment to cause the business to run.

And the valid investment is I need the minimum reasonable amount to do the job. Um, and I I'll give you

an example. We do a lot of stuff with technology where you're doing stuff with trucks, trailers, and mowers, right?

But, uh, with technology, there's always something that's 10 times more expensive that's fancy.

>> Kind of like a truck.

>> Okay. And uh, so we have a saying around

Ramsey. We're always looking for MF, minimal functional.

>> What's the minimal thing we can buy that's functional and gets the job done?

Because the only reason to buy a

computer is if it makes me more than it

costs. Not because somebody's going to think I have a fancy computer. The only reason for you to buy a truck is that the truck gets this work done. What's the cheapest truck that will get the work done? Because anything past that is

a luxury item and you ought to take your luxury items home. You shouldn't have those at work.

>> Yes, sir. So, I I yes, I would definitely sell this truck. I'd beef those two old ones up, get them going, and then you're probably going to need to buy a little bit better truck later on for cash to get rid of one of those junkers because they're going to start to be unreliable, which means they're not getting the job done. You can't miss a job because of stupid breakdown.

>> Yeah, that's what happened. We had three trucks and we had like one and a half in the shop at a time. We spent 30,000 on repairs last year and that's where I thought, oh, a new truck will make sense with a 5year warranty, 100,000.

>> Yeah. No, it doesn't. But but but moving up out of a $5,000 truck into a 15,000 might make sense.

>> Uhhuh. >> Because of reliability issues only. But again, all we're trying to do here, we're not trying to impress anybody. We're not trying to have a nice truck.

All we're trying to do is get the job done. And so when the old ones are too junky to get the job done, then they're too old to get the job done. when the new one's like six times too fancy to get the job done, then it was ridiculous. And you've already determined that. And so really, you're kind of you it's almost like you need to sell all of them and buy two $15,000

ones.

>> Uhhuh.

>> All I'm trying to do is run the business and keep my overhead down.

>> Yeah, I understand that.

>> There's nothing else motivating me.

>> How many trucks do you need, Adam, for where you guys are right now? >> If they're all running. So right now, right now only one. Um, >> you only need one operator.

>> You know what I would take? You said you had three junkers.

>> Two. >> Two? Yeah. Okay. And they'll bring five or six grand a piece, right? If if they're repaired.

>> Uh, they're pretty old. I think one's probably 4,500. The other one's going to be like 3,000. >> Okay.

All right. So, you get 8,000 bucks there. You sell the truck you're in. put a little money with it from the sale of the house and get about a $15,000 truck and let's go get our work done.

But systematically look at that thing and before it wears out, start saving up the money to buy its replacement or before you buy the number two truck because the business is growing. Save up and buy a used truck. But you don't, we're not trying to make a luxury statement. We're not trying to impress anybody with our truck.

Um I don't even know what my landscaper drives.

All I want knows is that the yard get cut, you know? I mean, come on. So, um, you know, that that's all that matters is did you do the job? And now, if you didn't show up, then I start carrying what you drive cuz something broke, I guess. But anyway, minimal functional, minimal functional that'll get the job done. And that's how you run business.

Everything else is just those of us that are entrepreneurs overspending and using our business as an excuse.

And um so that's a really really good

question, especially from a new listener, Adam. Thank you very much. And I I think you kind of got a good plan here and it sounds like you're going to do very well. You got you got your head dialed in and you had good training from your dad on the business side of things, it sounds like. And so yeah, that's good. I think you're going to go in a great direction there. Judson's in Michigan. Hey, Judson. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Uh it's great to talk with you. I've actually kind of I feel like I've grown up on your stuff. Uh my parents have been longtime listeners uh out of Southern California. We moved to Michigan in '98. I am actually in the midst of selling my home uh and moving

to the great state of Tennessee where you reside. So >> great. >> Um that being that being said, um I

don't actually have a place for me to move my family to. Uh my wife's a horse

trainer, so I am stuck in this situation where I'm trying to figure out um land

value. >> You have a place to move your family to. You don't have a place to move the horses to.

>> Yes, both. Right. Well, I mean, I can end up in a rental situation.

>> No, you could end up in a family home and the horses are somewhere else.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. But horse trainers get confused about what family is. Horses aren't family. They're a business.

>> That's That's true.

>> They are lunch. >> You and George. >> You and George Campbell with the horses.

>> I didn't say sell the horses. I just said in order >> Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Right quick.

What's your question? >> If I want to stay married, I will keep the horses. >> Yeah. I didn't say get rid of them.

>> I just don't know. I don't know if you have to own the land that they're sitting on.

>> Um I I'd like to. I mean, I know you'd like to. Uh we're we're managers of of

of a of a a decent sized property right now. Um we're we're looking to move to Tennessee and I'm not seeing prices match value. So it puts me in the situation where my dad is willing to cosign with me on a >> Yeah, that part where you're a longtime listener, you and your dad, and you want to cosign. Not a chance, dude. Not a chance. You're buying something you can't afford because you're trying to do something you shouldn't be doing. You guys have got to think through this a little more clearly.

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[Applause] [Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> Michael's in Raleigh. Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, me and my wife are on baby step 2.

Um, we started out with around 101,000 in debt and we are down to about 50.

>> Way to go. >> Um, yeah. Um, >> how long did that take?

>> We we we we had about 49,000 in cash

savings that we dumped at half of it.

>> Oh, so it took 10 minutes. Okay.

>> We are. >> Yeah. So, but it was actually a little

less than 49. Probably about 40. It was like 46 or so. >> Mhm. What's the What is the remaining debt on?

>> So, the remaining debt is 46,000 in

student loans and then we have 4,000 on a personal loan. >> Okay. Good. All right. And what's your

household income, sir?

>> It's about 150,000.

>> Good. Good. Excellent. Okay.

>> Nice.

And that's part of my question because I work full-time. My wife stays at home with our kids. Um I'm in engineering. Um

I started a side business to help assist

with the debt. Uh the problem with that is been working as much as I I'm around 120

without the side business and I'm I'm able to throw most of this money from the side business at the debt to try to pay it off quicker. But the problem with that is there's days where I don't even hardly get to see my son and it's like an emotional thing for me >> and I'm wondering how to navigate that.

The sacrifice and >> of not seeing him, you know.

>> How how old is he? >> He's working. >> He's five. So, he just started school.

So, you know, a lot of times when I get off work, I go straight >> and I just cut grass. I just cut grass like crazy to just keep paying.

>> How much How much are you making on that on the side hustle? >> 30. You said 120 and 30, right?

>> 30. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. 30. 30. >> The 150 is the total. Oh, it's total.

I'm sorry. I got you. I got you.

>> Yeah. So, the um but how long have you

been doing this?

>> This is our first year doing it. It just kind of skyrocketed. >> No, I mean h how long have you cuz the what you told me while ago was you just pulled the money out of savings and threw it at the debt and you really haven't paid off any debt much except that.

>> Yeah. Well, I've been I've been doing this about 3 weeks, but it's been because this is new. Uh because >> Okay. >> Our son just started school, so I was at home with him, but now that he's in school, I don't even hardly see him due to working in the evenings as well, basically. So, >> all right. Um >> So, I was home with him during the day.

>> Yeah. Well, you have 40 You have $50,000

in debt. You're making $30,000 a year extra to throw at it, right?

>> Yeah. Okay. Um, what do you owe on your

car?

>> Nothing. We have no car payments, >> student loans, and personal loans. >> I know, but I'm just checking. What are they worth?

>> Uh, about 50,000 in cars. We We own a

Jeep Wrangler and a Tundra, but they're paid for. >> Mhm.

>> Okay. >> And the Tundra's for work. Um,

we paid the Jeep off with the lump sum.

>> Yeah. What's the Tundra worth?

>> Uh, probably about 12,000.

>> So, the other car, the Jeep is worth

38,000,000.

>> No, yeah, I'm sorry. I got the maths wrong. It's worth about Kelly Blue Book like 25.

>> Okay. >> To 28 somewhere around there.

>> All right. Well, what I'm fishing for is

is there a way to short circuit and do this sooner than a year? Number one, um,

you know, Raleigh, North Carolina, you can live on a lot less than $120,000 a year. So, your budget's not tightened down enough yet. You need to quit eating out, quit going on vacation, live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans.

You've only been doing this three whole weeks. So, uh, it's not like you've really stretched out there yet. Okay.

So, um, yeah, but I I think you crank your budget on down tight, tight, tight, tight, because the more you crank it down, the faster you get out of debt.

Agreed. So, I'd love to see a situation where you could see your way to being done in a year without selling the cars.

If I can't, I'm probably selling her car

so I can be done in a year so I can see my son cuz I want to be done in a year.

You can do anything for a year. >> Yeah. I was going to say, Michael, I feel like you guys could throw 3 to 4,000 at this, get it 40 and then and

then all your stuff on top of it. You guys could do this in a year.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm that's what I'm projecting and >> yeah, >> I'm still going hard at it. It's just uh

>> Honey, you're not still doing anything. You've been doing it a whole three weeks.

>> Yeah. >> You know, it's not it's not like you've been doing this for two years. Okay. I mean, you've been it's a whole three weeks >> now. The thing is, um anytime you're

going to win at something, you're going to pay a price to winning at it. What you are doing is you are investing some time now so that you have the rest of your whole life to have all the time in the world.

You know, so today what I do with my kids or my grandkids is anything I want anywhere in the world I want because I can both afford the time and the money

>> because decades ago I paid a price.

>> But when I was five, >> when you were five, when you were five, I was probably gone. Your mother was a single mom. >> Yeah. >> And you lived through it.

>> You had you had something to tell your counselor later. But um >> but the uh >> abandonment was not one of the issues.

>> Yeah. It's good. >> I mean, when I'm home, I'm home, too, by the way. I turn off stupid television.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Don't tell me I'm spending quality time with the family and Netflix is on.

That's That's not the That's the definition of not quality time with the family. So, anyway, it's three whole weeks. You're going to be fine. I think it's worth the price you're paying. And I think when you look back on it at the end of a decade, at the end of two decades, at the end of three decades, you're going to say, "It's the best year of investment I ever made in my son was

for me to get my family back to square where we could eat again and get away from this garbage and this mess so we could breathe. And now we're able to do anything. We're living like no one else so that later we can live like no one else. We work like no one else so that later we can work like no one else. We drive a piece of crap so that later on I can drive anything I want to drive.

>> Yeah, cuz Michael, if you had called us 3 weeks ago before you guys paid off the car, I'd probably tell you just to sell the car. >> Yeah, I think I might >> and put and put the extra money towards this debt. So, I would Yeah. drive a crappy car so that you can be home.

>> I would Well, I'd let you I'd keep the Trundor. You're using it to pull the lawnmowers. I'd let her drive a crappy car right now. >> And then you guys save after that and you guys can upgrade and car. But it's kind of >> but I'm going to I'm going to take everything out of this budget in the

name of every time I take a dollar out, it's a dollar sooner. I get to not be doing this. >> Think about how much you make an hour and if you can save that, that's one less hour you have to work, right? And you kind of multiply that in your head.

Yeah. >> That'll make you cut lifestyle. >> I'm cutting this. I'm cutting that. I'm cutting this. I'm cutting that. And I don't really care what other people think. But um you're you're um you know,

yes, you're a good dad. You love your kid. If you want to see your kid, that's a good thing. You should. That means you're a good daddy. And we need good daddies in America today. There's not enough of them. So, thank you for being that guy. But you, you know, for a short

period of time, you can turn the heat up for the good of your family's long play.

And you that's you ask how to deal with the emotions. That's how I dealt with the emotions. When we started Ramsay, I came in to work at 7 a.m. I got home at 11. I never saw a kid for two years.

I mean, we I was there on birthdays. I was there some on some weekends and all Sundays. I did take Sundays off, but I worked like a maniac to get this thing up and running. And today, this thing

allows our whole family >> generationally to do whatever we want to do. >> And I'm not a child psychologist, too, but I'm like, you don't really remember 5 years old. You know what I mean? I think it's harder to be away when you have >> Well, it's harder on him than it is a kid. >> That's right. That's true. That's true. Yeah. So, I can I I relate to his his feelings. I'm glad you have those feelings. Means you're a good man.

>> Um but but don't treat it like it's

>> don't don't let the drama of those feelings override the actual facts of the situation, which are that as a great

man, a great husband, a great dad, you are pouring on the coals to get your family on a solid foundation so you don't have to deal with it ever again. >> And if your wife is able to do something too to bring in some income, right? I mean like all of you guys as a team together, how can we pay this off as fast as possible? >> Now that he started school, maybe there's something she can do.

That's not a bad plan at all. Anything we can do like this to short shorten the time of the pain and then the pain becomes more and more and more worth it because then you never have to do it again as long as you stay on these principles and don't go take out another truck or something, you know?

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Brady is in Mobile. Hi

Brady. How are you?

>> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thank you all for taking the call. I'm huge fan and have been for a few years. >> Thank you. >> Um, so I have a two-part question, but

if we can, I'll ask the first part and then if you feel we have time, maybe we can get to the second part. >> Okay. >> Um, so I'll set the stage. So, uh, my

wife and I when we got married, we started traveling in the oil field working and, uh, started out making $20

an hour or whatever and, you know, have moved to this job, moved to that job all over the country about eight times. Uh, we're 27 now and we started when we were about 19. And, uh, in that, you know,

comes moving and keeping and we have kids. We have two children. So, we've been keeping them away from, you know, other family as well. not on purpose, but just the nature of the job, traveling with work. Um, so I have in-laws that are sometimes seem a little bitter about that. Um, but the first

overall question I guess is at what point because I can stay home and make 50 60 maybe 70,000 a year doing what I do, but if I travel like I am now, um,

I'm making about 200,000 right now. So, you know, obviously significant difference. And the question is where where is that fine line with with greed

>> of just chasing money to chase money?

Just make more money to make more money. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes, ma'am. Um, and I'm wondering where that where that switches cuz, you know, like the caller before, I have, you know, I'm feel like I'm as good a father as any or I definitely try to be. And, uh, right now I'm gone from home about four days a week and they're actually, we just moved home last year. And, uh, so they're staying at home and I'm traveling back and forth, you know, every three or four days.

>> Yeah. That's a hard lifestyle to sustain for a long period of time with a family in general. Right. >> How old are the kiddos?

>> Uh, four and six months.

>> Okay. And um your wife is at home and you are

traveling and that affects the in-laws.

How? >> So, and I apologize, I got a little confusing there. So, for up until December of last year, we were traveling and we were on the road and we just moved back home. Uh oh.

>> 9 months ago. >> Okay. So, for the last nine months, the in-laws, if they want to see the kids, just get up and come over there.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, they've been able to do that.

I hope >> they have. >> Okay. Cool. And if you were traveling, you were in another city, you were there for weeks on end, were you not before before December?

>> Uh, yes, sir. Correct. >> So if you're in XYZ city for Yeah. If you're in XYZ city for four or five weeks with the family, the in-laws could come there, >> right? I agree. >> Yeah. So I think the in-laws are the they have their own issues. They have their own issues. >> I don't think his question was about the in-laws. >> Well, he they have accused him of being greedy. I think that's between the lines. Oh, is that what it is?

>> Not verbally, but you know, it's one of those things you can't pinpoint. Yeah, >> we don't get to see it's not convenient for us to come see the kids when we want to, the way we want to, because of the way you work. So, we're going to run down the way you work. Yeah, >> exactly. Yes, sir. >> That's what I heard.

>> I was reading between the lines.

>> Okay. The um Yeah. So, the the thing you

got to go back to is this. There is um Rachel and I did a book on parenting and

one of the things we said to teach kids is contentment because godliness with

contentment is great gain.

And a lot of people get really confused about the subject of contentment. They think ambition and contentment are on the same line and ambition is on one end and contentment is on the other. Um I

beg to differ. I'm highly ambitious and I'm very content. They're not on the same spectrum. They they're not one end of the line or the other end. They're different lines.

>> And so, um, you can be a good dad, uh,

you can be a great dad and, uh, be working your tail end off. Um, as a matter of fact, generally great dads do that. Um and so uh um you know uh greed

is um is not an amount of money. It is

not it it is a state of your heart and why you're chasing the money. If you're saying for a couple of years I'm going to burn the oil so that I don't have to the rest of my life. Burn the oil.

That's a good metaphor for you. But u I'm going to I'm going to turn up the heat. No, we don't want to do that either over there. But Right. Right.

>> Whatever it is, we're going to work really hard for a couple years so that we can make different choices later.

>> That's paying a price to win. That's going in the weight room and lifting weights so during the football game I can actually knock someone over.

>> Okay. I'm paying a price here to win.

There's a amount of work that has to be done to lay a foundation to go somewhere. If that's what you're doing, that's ambition. That is not greed.

Greed is un unbridled ambition for the

wrong reasons where you think more money

is going to make you happy. You think more money is the end all. You think money is a god that you're worshiping.

In instead you can say I want some more money not because I want more money but because of what it does for me and my family. I want to change my family tree.

I don't want these kids to have to worry about food or shoes. So, I'm going or or

college or the first car or whatever it

is. I mean, we're going to get in a position that we can make choices and money don't cause us to. I want to I used to work for a guy. He said, "I want to make enough money that I can read the menu left to right instead of starting with the price >> right on the right side.

in coaching people all these years people that ask a question like you asked about greed are never greedy people >> greedy people would never ask the question because it doesn't occur to them that their that their worldview is skewed and screwed up instead you're actually weighing out my values I'm spending a lot of time. I'm gone four days. I got littles and this is

bothering me. Well, a guy that asks that question does not is not a greedy person by definition.

>> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> And so greed is not going to be your issue. Now, do you want to adjust some of your goals and your values and say, "Okay, I'm going to work on my career to where in the next 18, 24 months, I can be home and make a hundred instead of being on the road and making 200 or instead of coming home and making 50, >> right?

>> I don't know what that looks like or how you do that, but I'm going to start to have that goal where I can come home and make >> Yeah, I was going to say being gone three to four days a week, that's hard with little ones." And so, um, >> unless you see an end to it very quickly, you say, "I'm going to do it for one more year >> and then I'm going to take and then I'm I'm by then I'm going to have a landing pad where I can come back home and and I'm going to cut my income in half, but I'm going to be home." >> Yeah.

And you guys are still so young, Brady, that >> there's there's an off-ramp like maybe you guys take a season and you're off the road and then the kids hit middle school and you're like, you know what? I'm I'm I'm going to shift back on and turn it back up and do this new thing for two to three years and then you're done. Like, do you know what I mean?

It's not at all. I mean, I've done that with my career. I pulled back some after the third kid and you know what I mean? Like you can make adjustments um as life as life comes and uh I don't

know there's a level of that flexibility that I don't want you to feel like you're stuck and you make a decision.

You're not stuck. And so if >> and you're not greedy. >> No. >> 100% chance you're not greedy. Okay. So,

um, just because somebody's a travel agent for guilt trips, that doesn't mean you're greedy. Okay. So, uh, you're you're But I would have a plan.

>> Yeah. Have a plan about it. >> Well, this is not where it starts to bother you and bother me is if it's in perpetuation. If it's forever and ever.

Let's have a plan where we're not doing this our whole life. We're doing this for a period of time to never have to do it again. That kind of thing.

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buying Selling a home in the middle of all the drama that is the real estate market right now requires that you don't participate in the drama. But instead, you understand that facts are your friends. So, the facts are that we are now sitting at a 5.8%

interest rate for a 15-year fixed.

That's a fact. It's down a little. It's a fact that house prices have stayed almost identical for the last three months. The median household, the median house price in America today is about 440,000.

And that's what it has been for that period of time. It's not moved much at all. That's a fact. The fact is is that

we have over a million houses on the market right now. The largest uh in

largest inventory since 2019 in the last few months. And yet

demand is still higher than inventory which is hold causing prices to hold and continue to go up in many areas. John is

in California. Hey John, how are you?

>> I'm great Dave. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, I am um give you a little background. Uh my wife and I are both retired and we're struggling and trying

to decide what we would like to do with

what we've accumulated over our lifetime and specifically your viewpoint in regards to IRA

conversions to Roth. Um, just to give you a few numbers, we've got about half

a million dollars in liquid mutual funds in bank account and we've got about $4

million in IRA accounts. Um, 1 million

of that is already in a Roth and 3

million is in a traditional IRA.

And I've been looking at a bunch of numbers and reading a bunch of things.

And what I'm trying to decide on is is

it better for us to try to do some

conversions between now and when we reach R&D at age 73, which is about 7

years from now, or just let our

traditional IRA grow. And my concern is

that if I just let it grow during our

lifetime, you know, the R&Ds are going to be six-digit numbers.

>> Yep. >> This is not money we need to live on. We

live with in our means on just fixed income and have been able to, you know,

accumulate a lot and not um spend anything. And so now I just don't want to make a mistake with what we've been blessed to accumulate. That's right.

>> I'm curious what your um >> viewpoints are about paying, you know, what I calculated to be about 1.2 or 3

million over the next five or six years doing step conversions to >> Roth. >> Or just letting you know our three adult

children inherit multi-millions in a

traditional IRA someday.

>> Honestly, the answer the answer to your question I stumbled into backwards. I did not I was not smart enough to do it on purpose but I accidentally did a brilliant thing uh to be very clear and the brilliant thing was that early on I converted everything to Roth you and I are the same age I'm getting ready to be 65 >> okay and everything is in Roth and the

reason that ends up I did it just because I wanted the tax-free growth

that's simp that's the only reason I did it and and so I started converting stuff many years ago and anytime time anything popped up that was not that was traditional, I immediately made it into Roth. Now the result is exactly what you're facing and you've analyzed this very well. You've done a good job. The you have two problems with the traditional that are mammoth.

Problem number one is the RMDs. The required minimum distribution is what that stands for for those of you that don't know. John does. And uh that means at 73 they require you to begin to distribute traditional because they are

bent on getting their taxes.

And so they make you take that that has never have been taxed yet or and that is not tax-free and begin to distribute it.

And as you said with $3 million it's going to be over $100,000. And so that $100,000 comes out it's 100% taxable and

so it's going to be reduced by 37%. or

whatever whatever the number is 30 30% whatever it ends up being depending on what your other incomes are but the um

yeah that that's problem number one is you're forced into RMDs you do not have RMDs as John knows on Roth and so I

don't have any required minimum distributions facing me when I hit 73 the second problem is that the traditional IRA or traditional 401k when it becomes

an inherited IRA, naming your child as the beneficiary, it goes to them or your

wife and then later your your child as a secondary beneficiary, however that works out. Um uh when they get that

money under, uh the Biden Secure Act,

they are now required to liquidate that fund and pay taxes on all of it over a 10-year period of time.

>> So 300,000 So 300,000 a year on three million. Oh, by the way, it's not going to be 3 million. It's going to be 9

million cuz you're going to live a while.

Okay. And you're not touching it.

>> I'm on the same page. That's >> So, those are the two those are the two problems. And so, that makes me It's pay

me now, pay me a lot more later.

And so, I'm going to start working out of this pretty quickly. Uh, I'm going to use uh a substantial part of that 500k

in mutual funds and uh after tax investments over there and I'm going to use that and move as much of the 3 million as I can this year, >> right? >> And then I'm going to as much as I, you

know, and then I'm going to use the 3 million what's left. I'm going to pay taxes out of it as I do it each year.

and it's going to be a lesser amount when the smoke clears because of the stinking taxes.

>> Uh, and then it's going to grow completely taxfree from then on, not be subject to RMDs. You're back in control of your nest egg. The stinking government's not got their hooks, meat hooks in you, and they don't get to hook your kid in the next generation when you leave it to them. So, you leave a Roth IRA taxfree. They can cash it out that

day, the day you die, and they pay no taxes on it.

And so because here's the thing, you you're sitting on $4 million, three million in in this thing and if it's in good mutual funds and you're uh by the time you hit RMDs, it's going to be 6 million. It will have doubled and and seven years later when you're 80 and if you're in good health, your probability of living to 80 from 65 is very high

statistically. Okay?

>> So uh then that 6 million is going to be 12 million.

And if it's all sitting there, hasn't paid taxes on it yet, except for the RMD portion, it's going to be substantial taxes. So, yeah, >> in in terms of dollars. So, it sucks right now, but it's going to triple suck later.

I would do it. >> Yeah, you're you're you're telling me what I was hoping you were going to tell me. And my wife is isn't on the same page because she doesn't get excited about paying, >> you know. Well, you know, you want to pay you want to pay taxes on 12 million or three.

>> Yeah, it's a good way of putting it.

>> You know, it's just a matter of when you're going to do it. Somebody's going to do it someday. >> And if you guys don't use this money and it's invested at an average of 10%, it's going to double every seven years.

And so, you're you're going to get hammered. >> Like the last caller, changing the family tree and the next generation.

>> You already have changed your family tree, by the way. You guys have done great. I assume you started with nothing.

Yeah, we're everyday millionaires.

Longtime listeners, first-time caller for you, but my wife's a retired teacher and I'm a retired CPA. So, I love it.

We've been been doing this for a while.

>> Two of the top five categories of people who become millionaires, teachers and accountants of the top heard anything.

>> Yeah, you did it. You did it. You did it. You guys are incredible.

You've done a good analysis on it, John. You did have your facts straight. You know what you're talking about. You're just trying to think it through.

And if I woke up in your shoes, I would use the majority of that 500 today. And that would move about 2 million of the four of the three out and then the other million that's laying there. I'm going to chunk it out over about three years and just take the hit, take the pain and then be done with it. And >> is there a is there a limit for how much you can convert per year?

>> Nope. >> You just got to you can do it all, but the taxes are pay taxes and you're he's got so much he's going to have bracket creep anyway. He's going to max it out every year anyway. So there's no way to avoid his bracket creep.

So there's no way to stage it actually. That makes sense. So I'm just going to rip the band-aid off. And it it sucks.

welcome to tax law.

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[Applause]

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[Music] In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions, you can watch this show be broadcast every day. We're on the glass from 1 to 4 central. Also in the lobby is the debtree stage. Brian is on it. Hey Brian, how are you? >> I'm good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve, sir. Where do you live? >> I live in Martinsburg, West Virginia.

>> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off, sir? >> About $44,000.

>> Cool. How long did that take? >> Two years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that two years? >> Uh, it went from 80,000 to approximately 139,000. Wow. What do you do for a living? >> Uh, I am a program analyst uh as a

federal contractor assisting DHS.

>> Wow. Okay, cool. In Martinsburg, West Virginia. >> Yeah, it's about an hour and a half west of DC. So, nice. Yep.

>> Okay. Gotcha. All right. Very cool. It's a pretty area, too. >> It's very nice. Love it. >> Very cool. So, what kind of debt was the 44K? >> Uh, it about 30,000 was student loans

and then about 14,000 was credit cards.

>> Good for you. How old are you?

>> I am going to be 37 on Saturday.

>> Good for you. Happy birthday.

>> Thank you. >> All right. Neat, neat, neat. Well, way to go, man. >> Thank you. >> So, what gets you started on this whole Ramsay thing uh two years ago?

>> Well, um about three years ago, I closed

on a house. Um I basically drained my

savings account. Um kind of wanted to keep up with the Joneses. Was not up with the Ramsay stuff at that point. Um, and that really acted as a forcing function because as soon as I closed on the house, I was renting it out to someone. They ended up not paying the rent. Uh, being late, yeah, being late on the rent, uh, very consistently.

>> Um, so when they finally moved out after a couple months, um, it was the real deal. It was do or die. I didn't have any margin for error. So, I needed a solution.

I knew that you were the guy when it came to personal finance. So, I started googling you and I just started breathing Ramsay, waking up, listening to it, hitting the shower, listening to the Ramsay show, doing laundry, listening to Ramsay, you know, in the car it just living it and just making that a cornerstone of my life. >> Very cool. Very cool.

That's neat.

>> Uh, well, Spotify binging, but >> Spotify, excuse me, wrong ad. Yeah, >> same thing. Yeah. >> Yeah, binging nevertheless. Yeah.

So, no book or no FPU class, just just straight up Spotify. >> Just just straight up straight up Spotify. >> I like it. Good for you. >> That's awesome. Okay. What was the biggest thing that helped you through that journey, would you say, that you did that you were like, if you went out of debt, this is what you got to do, >> right? Um, well, really it was just

about finding a plan. Um, and and

limiting the extraneous expenses like, you know, maybe you got to stay in from the restaurant uh more nights per week.

you know, maybe you got to go with a beater beater car. Like I got like a 20-year-old Hyundai Elantre that I still roll with. You know, it's got 139,000 miles on it, but I have no intent to trade it in because it still works for me, you know. Um, so just like being mindful of just the day-to-day, those small decisions and just limiting those, you know, pennies that you're you're throwing into the ether >> um if you're not aware of it and thinking about it.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. >> I mean, it it adds up to 44,000 in two years. I mean, >> yeah, absolutely. Um, and you know, I

mean, the the student loans, I probably started out with 35,000 in student loans when I graduated college, I only paid off maybe like 5,000 of that before I hit the Ramsay plan. So, like when I got Gazelle Intense, like there was nothing that was going to stop me. I was throwing like 2,000 a month at at, you know, my credit cards and my student loans. And that was just like what I

did. That was like the biggest thing in my life going on at that moment. And I'm so glad it's all behind me because it was so worth it just buckling down like that. >> You had an oh crap moment and you went all in. >> Exactly. >> H how long how many months were you in before you

kind of started going, "Okay, I'm no longer afraid. I'm now getting excited.

This is going to work." >> Yeah.

Um, I would say it was probably like

after that year mark after I was a year into it and I saw, you know, I saw my student loans probably hit uh cuz, you

know, two years ago it was probably at like $30,000. When I saw them hit like 14,000 maybe like a year ago, I was like, "Okay, I can see the end in sight and like this is actually going to work, >> you know?" >> Yeah. >> And I'm going to be free. >> Yeah. The math was telling you before that, but the emotions kicked in when you hit about the halfway point.

>> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. >> So, great. What was the hardest part of the two years for you?

>> H the hardest part of those two years?

>> Uh, I would just say like just resisting

the temptation to live like, you know, everyone else, you know, just like, >> you know, friends want to pull you out like, "Hey, come on out with us." or you know uh hey you want to go on this vacation or you know um just different

things or you know different you know there's always like ads online that are tempting you to buy stuff you don't need subscriptions you don't need so just saying no to all that um and and saying no to like some of the flashy stuff in 21st century America was you know it was just tough to like you know stay the course and and stay tough um but it got easier over time you know as you get that practice under your belt You know, it just becomes like momentum. So, >> yeah. More normal. You're used to it.

Yeah. >> It's almost now when somebody looks at it and rolls their eyes or looks at you and smirks, you kind of smirk to yourself and go, "You have no idea, >> right? >> I got I got this." >> Exactly. >> I got this. I'm done. Y >> Yeah. You truly had an I have had it moment. You really did. >> Absolutely. >> And it was It started out fear-based and it ended joy based. That's cool.

>> Absolutely. I couldn't be more thankful.

I mean, you guys have changed my life. Seriously, >> you changed your life. We just talked.

Proud of you, man. proud of you.

Congratulations. Congratulations.

>> Were there people in your life cheering you on during it? Did people know what you were doing or did you kind of keep it on the down low? >> Um, I was kind of selective about who I told, you know, I would tell people at church, you know, they were cheering me on, you know, big Ramsay fans. Told my family, uh, my immediate family, mom and dad, they were definitely cheering me on and stuff. >> Um, you know, um, not a whole lot of

skepticism out there, um, from the people that I knew. Um, but you know, I did recognize that this was my kind of deal. This was my thing to focus on. So, I wasn't really that chatty about who I shared it with.

I just kind of buckled down and it was just kind of like full steam ahead. Like, this has to be my focus because I was just so sick and tired of doing things the old way. Like, you know, the quality of life that I have right now, just what, two months after paying off all my debt, like it's immeasurably better than it was before I paid off all my debt. >> Amen.

>> You know, >> so good. Cuz financially and would you say emotionally? Do you feel like you've shifted feeling like oh my gosh I don't owe anyone anything now? >> It's a huge weight off my back.

I mean I I feel like I can I mean I don't want to say do anything but like the options in my life are so much greater. Like you know I was working uh >> let's let's see I was working like two side hustles and I was renting out a room in my tiny townhouse while I was paying down this debt. >> Now I just live with my new cat. Kind of bought him as a gift after I got out of this debt.

>> The debtree cat. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, exactly. I was able to drop one of my freelance clients. I do some writing on the side. Um, you know, so now I've got like just the one freelance client, live with my cat, you know, just live by my house by myself in my little townhouse and like it's all worked out.

So awesome. >> Yeah, it's it's great. It's just like so much less stress, >> so much less to worry about. Um, and you

know, the Ramsay way just like really helped me focus on like what's important and how to live a more fulfilling life.

So, praise God, man. I'm proud of you.

Awesome. Very, very well done.

>> Very well done. And I'm sure your parents are proud of you since they were cheering you on and watched you do this whole thing. Very cool. >> Definitely. My dad's an accountant, so he's definitely proud. For >> sure. Sure. >> Yeah. >> He got it dialed in immediately. Yeah, I like it. >> Yes, sir. >> Brian from West Virginia. $44,000

paid off in two years, making 80 all the way up to 139. Busting it to get out.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

Yeah.

Yeah.

>> You know, Rachel, when a young a young single guy like that does this stuff, uh it is in a sense it's harder for them

>> because there's no one to hold them accountable. In another sense, it's easier for them because they don't have to talk somebody else into it. They just go do it. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so you got you got a little bit of advantage, a little bit of disadvantage when you're going at it. But he dialed it in. Went for it. Went straight down the line. Boom. Boom. Boom. >> Well, it's just no crap. He's just like just going to do it. Two years be done.

>> Just just matter of fact. Just do it.

Matter of fact, that's how it works.

>> So great. >> Well done, sir. Well done.

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Our

[Music] scripture of the day, James 1, 2, and three. Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.

Benjamin Franklin said, "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." Ethan is in Texas. Hey

Ethan, what's up?

>> How you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I'm 23 and I'm working as a security officer in the oil field. Uh, making about 874 a week after tax and I I just

I struggle with a few things. Primarily saving money cuz I'm just not used to it. This is the most I've ever made and it's more than I could make in town. I actually work pretty far outside of town. have to drive and uh you know most I can make back there is 15 16 an hour

but I'm not really content with with the

where I'm at. You know I've gone pretty much as high as I can. They want me to be a supervisor now but it comes with a $10 an hour pay cut and >> well that's a great promotion.

>> Jeez. >> Yeah. Our our site supervisors they make the same as everybody else and it's different for every site. So, where I'm at, I get paid 8day 74, but if I go be a

supervisor, they cut it dramatically.

Um, but I'm making pretty good money,

you know, for someone my age, I think.

And I I just struggle with saving it.

You know, I I have some debt from when I was 18. I didn't know about interest rates. Got some credit cards with 30% interest, and I've been paying those off following your snowball month.

>> How much is your car payment?

>> My car, remember? I actually own my car.

It's a old Lincoln my grandfather gave me, but it it I have to make a lot of repairs on it. You know, just this month, I've probably spent 2,000 buying parts. >> Okay. Do you Did you say you had housing furnished?

>> Yes. My uncle has been gracious enough to let me come up here and live with him. So, I have pretty much zero bills besides gas, car insurance, and my phone. >> Okay.

All right. So, the problem is you're not telling your money what to go, where to go. Instead, you're wondering where it went.

>> Yeah, pretty much.

>> Yeah. So, being able to control because it's probably what around three grandish a month.

>> Yeah. Just about 3,000 >> is what you're bringing home before. Yeah. After tax. After taxes.

>> Yes. After tax and after I pay everything, it's 3,96.

>> Okay. >> After I pay everything I have to.

>> Okay. When you say pay everything you have to, meaning your phone, insurance, all of that. >> Yeah. fuel everything that I need to >> okay >> you know exist.

>> Yeah. So the remaining Ethan is again you just need a pretty detailed budget to know exactly where that money is going to go and what what it's going to do. How much credit card debt do you have left to pay off?

I that that's another issue is I've I've paid it off everything I can find, but a lot of it's been sold off to collection agencies and I end up not finding out

about it until they finally send me a court order suing me because I never get any calls or letters or anything about it. So, I think it's around 4,000 total.

I have three left I know of, but there's a lot that I just don't know who holds the debt. >> Have you Have you pulled your credit report? Do you know what's outstanding?

>> Uh, no, I haven't. >> Okay. So, I would do that. >> That'll give you some insight into who currently owns it and how to get in touch with them and >> begin to get balances on those things and settle them. You could probably settle them for what you originally owed real easily.

>> Yeah, I've done that several times with the ones I've had. >> Good. >> I think I sold one was 3,000 down to I think 800. >> So, it's that's working out for me.

>> Yeah. So, you know how to do that. That's good. Okay. So basically, um,

unless you're giving a lot of money away, you're spending a lot of money on food. I mean, on fun.

>> Yeah. I I I I have a habit to buy and sell guitars. You know, I I buy them a lot. You know, I spend $1,000 here.

>> Usually I make a profit, but sometimes they sit around for months at a time and I end up letting them go for a loss. Some I make profit on, some I don't.

>> And then Yeah. Food as well. >> I think we found the hole in the bucket.

>> Yeah. How many guitars do you currently have right now that you're wanting to sell? >> Right. >> Right now that I'm selling, I have six.

>> Okay. So, that'll that'll help.

>> Did you say guitars or cars?

>> Guitars. >> Guitars. >> Oh, >> music. Okay. >> Yeah. I'm a player, so if I buy, sell, fix them up, and flip them. It's just they're hard to get rid of sometimes.

>> Yeah. That's the hole in the bucket.

Okay. Because you're you're losing more money than you're making on that, and that's eating up what would have been savings.

because you're not paying attention to it. You're paying attention to the guitar, but not the business of flipping.

>> So, if you're going to if you're going to buy and sell more than one a year, you're going to start treating it like it's a business and being very detailed about what you pay for it versus what you spend on it versus what you sell it for. And you need to make a profit

every time.

Okay? And otherwise, you got to quit screwing with this cuz it's just become an expensive hobby.

And you know, guitars are fine. There's nothing wrong with them. Not evil, but they're not an investment.

So, it's just a it's a small business idea as it is right now. You with me?

Are you there?

>> Yes, I am. I just listen.

>> Okay. Yeah. I I mean, you you've identified where the money's going because you got $3,000 a month you can't account for and we just found it. I think it's leaning against the wall.

>> Yeah, it's it's definitely definitely been an issue that I've noticed. So, I I

think we put you on every dollar, get you on the budget, we we'll give it to you, and you start spending every dollar

on the app before the month begins.

Here's how much I'm going to have for gasoline. Here's what my phone costs.

Here's what I'm going to have for food.

Here's what I'm going to have for fun and entertainment. Here's what I'm going to spend on guitars. Here's what I'm going to put in savings. Execute that.

And then the more you pull out of that budget to throw at this debt to get it paid off when you see it when you finally pull your credit report and know that extra margin goes toward the debt.

Doesn't go to guitars. It goes and sell those guitars. That'll bring in some cash to help you pay off some of this debt, too. >> You probably got $4,000 worth of guitars laying there to sell. So, yeah. Yeah.

Keep it keep something cool. Keep one or two that's cool to play. I'm good with that. I got issue with that. That's not killing you. But this exercise of not being intentional and treating it like a business and paying close attention to every dollar, that's what's eating your lunch. Eric is with us in Chicago. Hi,

Eric. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me on.

>> Sure. What's up? >> So, my father uh passed away this year

and he left my mother and I with uh a

substantial amount of money. So, he left us with 12 million. Um, I received 4.1

million in cash and the rest went to my mother. >> Wow. >> Uh, currently currently that money is my money 4.1 million is sitting in a money market account which is uh making 4.59%

interest. >> So I'm making about 14 to 16k a month

off of interest with that.

>> Mhm. >> And my question is I want to buy a house

and I don't know how much I should spend

on a house. make a year.

>> Um, well, right now I'm not working.

>> Why?

>> I have a hard time with work. Um, it's hard for me to keep a job. I have ADHD.

So, and I I I felt like I haven't found my calling either. So, it's it's just hard for me. I'm still trying to figure that out. Believe it or not, >> I'm 38.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I have that. So right now, you know, it's just the income I'm getting is just from the money market and then

um you know, so I want to buy their house and I don't know how. >> If this money allows you to not deal with your ADHD and your career issues, as a result, this money has become a curse, not a blessing.

You have got to deal with those things for your own sake and for your own dignity.

becoming a trust fund baby and saying it's because I couldn't work because of ADHD is not going to be good for your mental health long term.

>> Yeah. >> So, I would prefer you pretend like this money doesn't exist and go earn a living, sir, for your sake.

>> I think you'll feel better. >> I want to know how I should The thing is, I also want to know how I should invest this money because this money >> you just drove right past that, didn't you? You don't have any intention of doing what I just said, do you?

>> No, I do. I just want to invest it as well so I can make money off of it also.

Okay. You know, >> I think that's good. I think that part's good. And I think buying a house is good and paying cash for a house. So, um, you're you're in Chicago. I would I would spend less than a million dollars.

I'd probably spend $700,000 on a property and move in cash and move in it. and I would sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and I would invest the rest

in some good mutual funds and I wouldn't touch it and I would go see a therapist and a doctor if you need some uh medication if you're depending on what's going on with your ADHD. I don't know.

But get yourself to where you can work and hold a job and build a career. You will like you better.

You'll be more fun.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one.

>> Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show except you get to be a part of it.

>> Part of what, George? The The Ramsay Show Live. Okay. >> That's what I'm telling them about. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish.

>> Okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

>> Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. >> George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? >> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? >> It It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know. Okay. We're going to Orlando. Oh, you're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold here in Chicago?

>> What is happening? Can I can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available.

So, get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

>> Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? >> Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George.

>> That's how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 120. No One Makes Good Decisions out of Fear or Desperation | December 18, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF-H4r2EBdI) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jo Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show and number one bestselling author, PhD in counseling.

He is uh my co-host today. So, if you've

got questions about dealing with your family during the holidays, he's here for you.

>> And if you don't, your family's calling about you.

>> If you don't think there's crazy in your family, that means it's you because every family's got some crazy. So, there it is. That's how that works. Ann is with us in Chicago. Hi, Ann. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so um almost a month ago, I found

out that my husband was gambling online

and um all of our savings has pretty much

been depleted. Um and we have quite a

bit of debt. So, um

>> he's used up the savings gambling.

>> Yeah. >> How much? >> Yes. Um, it's a total of 120,000.

>> WHOA.

>> YEAH. >> YEAH. >> And he borrowed money to continue.

>> So, yeah. So, that's the money that we owe. >> How much do you owe for his gambling?

>> That that is the total. So, what?

>> Oh, I'm sorry. 120,000 >> is the debt that we owe. Um, in regards to like what's been spent from savings?

>> Oh, how much did he steal from savings?

I don't I couldn't even tell you the total, but we're basically starting from square one. Um, so we've we have found

um we've gotten a loan. He's gotten a loan to take care of the debt that he needs to pay back. Um, so I guess my

we're kind of focusing on going to counseling and getting ourselves back into a healthier place independently before we start to kind of focus on next steps with the marriage. But right now, I just need to know kind of what

how to prioritize my funds to start replen like I have I have an educator pension, but I know I need to save and invest in addition to that for retirement and to also like build up that emergency and savings savings. So,

I guess I was just looking for some guidance on like how to do that while

knowing I also have a daughter going off to college next year and just life expenses. So, >> we're going to have to be real honest with you, okay, in a short amount of time. Is that all right?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Your college your daughter's college plans have probably changed dramatically. >> Yeah. >> And y'all are going to have to metabolize that and have an honest direct conversation with her. But chances are, I'm almost guarantee you, she's not going to go to the college she thought she was going to go to cuz y'all don't have the money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And she's Yeah. She's aware. She knows.

>> Yeah. And and and you're you're going to have to set up um at least in the short term for the forese foreseeable future,

you have to take make sure you're safe because he's untrustworthy.

>> Yep. Yeah. >> Just going to counseling isn't going to solve his problem. He's got to go to rehab. >> Yes. >> He's got to get with the Gamblers Anonymous. He He is He's got to >> Yeah, he's doing that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, he's been doing that for about five or Well, probably >> probably probably longer than five weeks now. And then seeing a therapist in

addition to that. So, >> okay. So number one, so so your

long-term issues are he uh reaches a level of

healing and then over time can rebuild

trust.

>> It's not instantaneous, but over time he rebuilds trust. And the two of you are handling every dollar in the household together. >> Yes. And um before that happens, you're

going to start operating just to take care of you.

>> Yeah. >> And I really don't care about your teachers pension and your long-term investments right now. I just care more about you having an account where you're in control of food, shelter, >> clothing. >> Yeah, we kind of did that right away. We

got um my own checking account established. Um, and he has um, and then

we have a joint one for him to have a

portion of his paycheck to go into so he can cover the the debt that he's repaying, but I still have like >> Yeah. So, what do you make >> use of that, I guess. >> How do you make what do you make?

>> I I make about 75,000 a year.

>> What does he make?

>> Um, I think it's between 90 to 100,000.

>> Okay. in in a month. Our like our monthly income after taxes and deductions is about 9,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> And like >> I probably sit down with a marriage counselor and get some guidance on this, but I would not be opposed to all the money going into your account >> and him having visibility on it and

having discussion about it, but act no

access to it. >> I I'm I'm in full agreement of that.

>> Yeah. I think his account, his check and your check should deposit into your account >> and then you pay the debt bill out of that account. But he's got visibility. I don't mind him knowing what's going on, but I just don't want him to have I don't want him to have access to money. He's got a he's got an addiction.

>> Okay.

>> I don't even want him having access to quote unquote his money to continue his addiction. You follow me?

>> Yep. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, because his track record right now is pretty blemished. Yeah.

>> So, um >> it it you sound very um

>> factual and logical about this. I guess you're the other side of being pissed off to where you can't even breathe, right? >> Detached because you have to be.

>> It's it's been four weeks of I don't

know. I guess trying to be very solution focused and um >> Yeah. And very I mean like I said we're

you know we're very much focusing on >> well one one of two things is going to occur long term longterm one of two things is going to occur. He's going to get well and rebuild trust >> Yeah. >> and never go near these sites again never do this stuff again. Um or you all

probably aren't going to be married.

>> Yeah. So if he rebuilds trust and over time 10 years from now has not touched a a a single has not lost a single dollar gambling not not been on a site at all and stays completely sober um and you

guys have rebuilt a marriage, you've rebuilt a relationship, then the two of you together 10 years from now will be building your retirement plans. Okay?

But if he doesn't and you guys are not together, then yeah, then you start asking those questions later about your long-term retirement plans. Right now, I just want short term. I want you to think one year out right now, not 10 years. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And even shorter term, Dave's talking about he has to rebuild trust.

>> You get to decide what the path looks like, and I want you to establish that in 30 or 60-day chunks. And what I mean by that is for the next 30 days, here's what you can do to reestablish trust. And then he gets to decide, do I want to be a part of this marriage or not?

But for 60 days, all of this money goes into one account. >> Yeah. >> And you you can sit by me, but you don't have access to it. >> I don't mind you seeing everything and even let's talk about what we're going to do with it. That's all fine. You speak into it, but but you don't have access to any money and your name's off of everything.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. >> And then he gets to choose, do I want to be stay into this marriage? >> Yeah. >> But you get to decide here's what the here's what here's what reestablishing trust is going to look like for the next 60 days. and then the next 60 days after that and the next 60 days after that.

>> Pick up Henry Cloud's book called Trust.

Uh it's got some real good frameworks in it on this to have a good discussion about as well. Yeah. Let's first

establish a short-term game plan that's solid and you're protected and safe.

Then you worry about retirement.

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Marie is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hey, Marie. What's up?

>> Hi. How are you? Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas. How can we help?

>> Well, thank you. I This may seem small, but it's something that um yes, I appreciate your help with. I have a federal student loan that

I thought had been discharged. Um and

30ome years later, it pops up again with

some interest smacked on it. It's not a huge amount. It was with that added $14,000 loan with $17,000 interest. I

find out about it. I'm like, "Wow, okay.

What do I do?" start. >> Why did you think it had been discharged?

>> Well, um I had a very bad marriage and I was

told by as part of a bankruptcy settlement by probably a second rate lawyer that that had been taken care of.

Another loan had been discharged and I

just >> Is this a federally insured student loan or a private student loan?

>> A federal Yeah. And now I know that

until you die. >> Yeah. You can't bankrupt a You can't bankrupt out a federal loan.

>> I understand that. >> Yeah. >> But it did in fact disappear for all

those years. I never heard a word. I never and at that time in my life, I

just it there was a lot going on and a

lot of trauma and I just it just

disappeared and I never thought about it. Well, it reappeared. And so then I

set about trying to manage it and settle it. And like some people, I did this. I

ignored it. And then I signed up for this program called Fresh Start a year ago. I'm like, fine, I'm going to deal with this loan.

Well, it from 14 to 17, adding on 17, that's 31. All

of a sudden, it was 33, then 34. And the

program was called USID.

And I called them and I said, "Can I please make a cash settlement?" I while I was trying to figure out what to do, I've been saving the money. This is the only debt I have except a very small mortgage.

So, I have some cash to put towards it.

And every time I call to try to settle it, the bill is higher and higher. And now, I just was digging through all my paperwork. The last time I heard from them was in September, and I think it was about 35 or $36,000.

And I just I think my thought is if it goes into default, it would revert back to the US Department of Education and I could make a cash payment rather than paying.

I think the last payment plan they offered me was about $1,800 a month for

eight years or something. I mean, it was unbelievable.

Um, >> I don't know anything about this program,

but I don't know that it's going to default back if the government has sold it.

>> Okay. >> If it was going to default back, it would have defaulted back a long time ago, I think, because it's been unpaid for decades.

>> Um, it the program I signed up for the

program almost a year ago. And interestingly enough, when I was thinking about what I wanted to do with

the money, I got an email from them.

It's like my phone was listening to me.

I don't think so. But I got an email from them and it was just saying one of the things they would do would be default it back to the Department of Education, which my understanding is they would offer you a cash payment settlement that could be 80 or 90%. I have appealed.

I've sent in letters. I sent in documentation saying I thought it had been nothing, you know. Um, and I get it.

There's interest. There's penalties.

>> Yeah. The um the principle is not negotiable, but the interest and penalties are the larger portion on this thing. And that is negotiable when it goes back to the Department of Ed. If it if you can get it to go back to the Department of Ed, and I'm not positive how to do that in this case, but yeah, you're you're correct about that. that uh there is no negotiation on the principal ever on these things.

>> No, >> but there is there is on there is on the interest and on the penalties, particularly on something like this where it's >> a screwed up deal, you know, and they'll they will, you know, if you can finally get someone over there with two brain cells to rub together in the Department of Education, then you you know, maybe you can get something and talk it through. I don't think this is going to be an easy path and I don't have a a a

really sharp cutting direct thing to

tell you to do. Uh because I don't I I just don't know what to do with this thing. Um >> Okay. >> I think I would be calling the department I think I'd be contacting the Department of Education. You know what else? I'll tell you what I would do.

Contact your congressman. >> Yes.

>> Oh, okay. the congressman's office and tell them what you've got and see if you can get some help and get them to have the Department of Education look at your case >> and see if you can get some help that way. And uh most of the congressional

offices and the senator's offices have someone have a staffer that is assigned to student loan problems.

>> Okay. Well, that's brilliant. That would be helpful. >> Yeah. I'm I'm just going to try to get what I want to do is try to get some solid footing and and something that we can count some information we can count on. And so far all you've gotten is the runaround. And I'm afraid I'm giving you the same thing a little bit cuz I don't really have a good answer. But I am 100%

sure that these things are not bankruptible, which you have discovered.

You got shyered there all those years ago. And I'm 100% sure that they will

not negotiate principal.

We have had them when we one of our coaches would go in and do the do battle on behalf of the consumer. We have had them um work on it uh as well. And I tell you

what, we we've got a litigation firm that I don't know if they're handling anything on student loan stuff that just became an advertiser that is representing people where debt has been mishandled uh and the debt collection process has been mishandled. uh we can put you in touch with them too and let's see if um or we'll get in touch with them on your behalf and and see if they can help you uh or can give you some solid direction because they're solid people and they know what they're doing. So yeah, um so I'll put you on hold and Christian will pick up and we'll get you signed up for those guys.

And um trying to Guardian Guardian Litigation, I was trying to remember the name of it. I cut the ads the other day. They just came on with us, but they're helping people that have uh collectors that are misbehaving, violating federal law on Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. They're representing the the borrowers against those collectors and having some really good luck in those situations.

So, we'll try them and we'll try the congressman's office and let's see if we can get something moving for you. And the only way Dave just mechanistically that this could refer back to normally a

a debtor like a car you take out a a bad

car debt and you don't pay it. They sell that loan to a collection agency for a

discount and then the collection agency whatever they can get from you. That's what that's how what's they make the spread. The only way this would work and revert back is if the federal government is not selling the loan but they're hiring basically a a henchman to go get the money. Right.

>> Well, no. No. Sometimes the uh see it's a federally insured student loan. So sometimes the uh the lender or the owner of the debt gives up and and looks at the federal government and says, "Pay me.

You have a guarantee on this." >> Ah, okay.

>> Okay. >> And so they get their money because they have a guarantee on it. They get their the borrow the lender gets their money and now the the loan actually becomes the property of the federal government.

>> Okay? because they're buying it out.

Same thing happens with like an FHA home that gets foreclosed on. Okay, that the Federal Housing Administration has guaranteed the loan. So, City Bank forecloses on an FHA loan. HUD,

Department of Housing Urban Development, writes City Bank a check for 100%

>> of that loan >> of that loan regardless of what the house is worth. Okay. >> And then they take the house and sell it for whatever they can get. And so, you've got a HUD foreclosure up for sale that the government owns the house.

Yeah, >> because they had to make good on their guarantee with City Bank and this works exactly the same way as that. >> So when we think of at the macro level,

you know, the debt, the US debt, >> none of that's included. >> None of that's included. No, like the liabilities that the government has guaranteed, none of that's wound.

>> That's not that's not in that number. Okay. >> Yeah. That number is simply money that treasury bills, treasury bonds that are issued, which is borrowed money. Okay?

And people buy that and that they use that money to fund the amount that they're in the hole called the deficit.

>> Okay.

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Sienna is with us in Birmingham. Hi, Sienna. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How about you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, first I want to thank you because I've been listening to your show and I have paid down quite a bit of debt. Um,

the only thing I have now is student loans. However, I am signing on a home

um next week. I did put down a down payment. Um, well, actually, I borrowed against my money and put down that down payment and now I am um getting ready to

close on it. And my question is, um, I

don't want to make dumb decisions on putting furniture in the home, putting, um, appliances in the home. I'm, um,

pregnant and I'm getting ready to go maternity leave. So, I just really don't know what's the best way to do it without going back in debt.

>> To do what?

>> To furnish the home furniture.

>> And >> what do you what do you Where's your furniture now? What furniture have you got now?

Um, it's used furniture that I got from my mom. >> Okay, just put that in there.

>> Okay. So, what about like appliances?

>> The house doesn't have appliances.

>> It has a stove.

>> Okay. What appliances do you need?

>> A washer, dryer, um, of a refrigerator.

>> Okay. Are are you single or you married?

>> I am now newly single. Yes.

>> Mhm. >> Just divorced.

>> Um no, we were getting married and then um a big cool off happened and now I'm

um single and I found out a month later

that I was pregnant as well.

>> Okay. Tell me about this down payment you It's an earnest money check, right?

Not a down payment.

>> Yes, cuz >> How much did you put up in earnest money? >> I had the house built.

Um, alto together I put up um like

36,000.

>> You put the 36,000 Oh, it's you had the house built.

>> Mhm. >> So, you put a $36,000 earnest money up.

>> Mhm.

>> Wow. >> Did you borrow that money?

>> Yeah. She said she did. >> I borrowed 29 of it >> from who?

>> My account.

>> What account? Like I bought against my own am my own savings.

>> You mean your 401k?

>> No, I just had it in savings and I just borrowed against it. >> Oh, I see. Okay.

>> Well, that's fairly easy to pay off.

Just take your savings and apply it to the debt and be done with it then, right? So, how much do you have in savings?

Um, well, I have like 20,000 in one account,

45 in another account, and then I did

just find this. I had this acorn account that I had started like years back, and it has like 5,000 in that, and I was just going to take it out of that because >> Okay. So, when you close on the house next week, >> uh, the 36,000 will apply against all of

this, right? So, um, yes. So, the

$45,000 account, for instance, has a $36,000 lean on it, right?

>> Okay. Are you do you have more down payment coming at the closing next week?

>> Um, I do have closing costs and that's

just about it. >> Okay. How much are you How much do you have to bring to the table next week?

>> Only like um 24,00.

>> Okay. All right. And so you have $70,000

in in in those three accounts minus

$29,000 loan. Right.

>> Right. >> So you pay off the $29,000 loan. We use the savings to do that. And 70 minus 29

uh still leaves you a ton of money, kiddo. I mean like $41,000.

>> So I >> if you have $41,000 minus $2,400, why can't you buy appliances?

Well, the thing is that I want So, I had

I was saving up for a year. My my mortgage will be three times the amount that I used to pay in rent. And I was

saving up for to have a year because I won't be working.

>> Oh, so maternity leave is unpaid for you?

>> Yes. I I'm a travel nurse, so I don't

have benefits.

>> Okay. And what are you going to do after the baby comes um and maternity leave is over?

>> So that's the hard part I'm facing now because in my mind before I was pregnant I was like oh I'm just going to keep doing travel assignments and I'll have it paid off in no time.

And so now >> Yeah. So now now you're probably a local nurse so that you can take care of your child, right?

>> Yes. >> Which is going to be a big pay cut, >> right? Okay. Can you afford this new house? >> No. I think you're selling this new house, aren't you?

>> Uh, am I going to be able to on a local

notice? Yeah. No, probably not.

>> No. No.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We're in the >> And does does does baby daddy know he gets to pay child support on this yet?

>> Um, yes, he's he's learned that. Yes.

>> Okay. Good.

All right. Oh my goodness gracious.

>> Can we just say we're about to tell you what to do next, but

this is going to sound silly to say this out loud, but I want you to spend at least a minute being sad

>> that this guyad >> this guy blew up your life. You're not going to be able to have this dream dream home that you had built from the ground up.

>> And your future plans with this little baby are going to look different. >> Yeah. I I would close on the house next week and after the first of the year, I would contact Ramsey Sol. Go to Ramseyolutions.com and contact a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and I would turn around and put the house back on the market and let's get it sold before it gets you in trouble cuz you and I know you already knew before you called me this house is going to be trouble because now you are going to be staying in Birmingham as a nurse, no longer traveling, and that's going to be a 30% pay cut and you simply can't pay the payments on this house anymore.

and all you're going to do is burn through your savings and then you're going to have the same problem.

Get rid of the stupid thing. It's just a stupid house.

>> And it's, you know, you can live anywhere and go buy you a used washer and dryer on Craigslist and uh try to

find a bargain on some kind of little refrigerator to stick in that hole while you get the house sold.

But you don't go buy a big fancy washer and dryer that flies to the moon and back. And you don't go buy a, you know,

a refrigerator that has way too many features. Okay? Just the bare minimum thing that'll get it done. A used washer and dryer.

Maybe a used refrigerator, but go pick up something just an inexpensive something on sale after the first of the year with cash. You've got the cash and then you hoard cash. You save the cash. You watch the cash to do what you were talking about.

But let's turn around and get the house right back on the market and get rid of it.

I'm got a baby and I'm not getting married and and so I'm staying home take care of this baby. I'm not going to be able to be a travel nurse and it's going to change your John's right. It's very sad. It's tragic what you've got, you know, the way this has unfolded for you.

But you also don't have, again, this is

all due respect. I don't think you can afford maternity leave.

>> That's what I'm afraid of. >> You can't. >> I've been trying to like double up, but I'm also like very tired and hurting at the same time. >> I know. Have you Have you got family in the area? >> No, >> I do. So, I also have two other girls

and my mom helps with them, but I mean,

I can't help, you know. How were you traveling with the other two girls?

>> Cuz my mom helps with them.

>> So you'd be out of town for like a week and your mom kept them.

>> No, I would travel an hour and a half every day or I would um travel there and

work 4 days and then travel back >> and then work PRN where I'm at.

>> Okay. So, >> well, if you can continue to do that, if you can continue to do that after the baby comes for a period of time, if your mom can handle the newborn, that's going to be a wise thing just from a math standpoint. I know it's hard, but this whole situation's hard, but get rid of this house. Okay.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm sorry, kiddo. >> I hate this for you. >> Wow. What a horrible mess. Hate it for

you. God, makes me sick.

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Scots in Canada. Hey Scott, how are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. Uh, thank you Dave and John for your for your ministry. My wife and I really appreciate it. I just have a question about a vehicle that my

wife and I were recently given. Um it's a 2023 Jeep Wrangler. It's worth about

50 just over $50,000.

And um we make about $35,000 a year. I'm

a plumbing apprentice and my wife is at home with our five-month-old son. And um we are currently we're debtree completely. We're renting a house and we have a great renting situation and we're just saving up for a down payment on a home. and we were uh just wanted to get some wisdom on on this vehicle that we've been given if we should keep it and have a safe and reliable vehicle for the next um many years or if we should

um maybe consider selling it and put that towards a down payment on a home.

But uh it was a gift and so there's kind of a little moral dilemma there and yeah, we just wanted some wisdom on what to do with this vehicle.

Not counting the moral dilemma. I would sell it and buy a $20,000 car and put 30,000 in the bank.

But now what's what's the moral dilemma?

Does somebody have give it to you? They give you a gift and expect you to keep it. >> Yeah. So um the way we came about this is a family friend um passed away and he

gave all of his estate to another family friend who's 96 years old. And this 96-year-old, he gave us this Jeep and um

and from the estate and uh yeah, I'm

pretty confident that he probably wouldn't have given it to us if he knew that or thought that we would just sell it right away.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Um

it was it was a car he owned or a car that was in the estate or something. He didn't buy it to give to you, right?

>> No, he didn't buy it to give it to us.

Um, he received it through the estate of another family friend and then he gave it to us from there.

>> How are you connected to this guy? Is he friends with your parents or is he just a neighborhood? >> Yeah, he's he's uh friends with my dad.

>> Have you talked to your dad about it?

>> Um, yeah. And he is leaning more towards keeping it and driving it for the next 15 years.

>> That's awfully optimistic with a Jeep, but that's another conversation.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I mean,

it's found money and uh I'm not going to

sever a relationship over it. If you if you have to drive it, you have to drive it. But I probably am having a cup of coffee in person with the 96 year old and saying, "Hey, I got little babies, a wife. We need a house more than we need a car. This gift is incredible. I want

to honor you and thank you for that." Um, but it's way more car than we could have. and we could do with a lot less

car and a good down payment on a house better. And I would think that, you

know, that you probably would tell me that buying a house is more important than buying a car. And so I'm asking your permission to help me buy a house with this money and by selling the car moving down. And I'm asking for your blessing on that. I don't want to hurt your feelings and I don't want to seem ungrateful or dishonoring to you or to the gift. And see what the reaction is.

What do you think the reaction will be?

You know the guy?

>> Um, I don't know him super well actually, but um he's a he's a very nice

man, so I think he would probably um wouldn't be too hurt by that.

>> One of one of the greatest questions um an older man can be asked is, "Can I get your wisdom on something?"

>> Yeah. I want to get your wisdom on something. Here's what I'm thinking. I I mean, I've got a little I've got babies and a young wife, and we need a house more than we need a fancy car. And I'm really I I want to be, you know, careful

to honor you and honor how generous you've been. Thank you. And I never would do something without talking to you. And I'm asking your wisdom on this.

It feels like to me that I'd be better off driving a $20,000 car with a $30,000 down payment on a house than driving a $50,000 car, which is going down in value like a rock. Can I promise you a cheap Wrangler is going down in value like a rock?

That 50 is going to be worth 20 and 30 seconds.

If somebody came to me and asked me that, I would 99ly 99% of the time, if

I'd given somebody like a an heirloom

rifle that my great-granddad owned, I would say, "I I don't want this sold, right? I gave it to you to entrust it to you." But if it was a car that somebody else gave me because they passed away and now I've got it and I've I've got about 30 minutes left on this life, I would say, "Bro, get yourself a house.

Take care of your babies." >> Yeah. And I think most people would, except apparently your dad, but Yeah.

But your dad's like wrong. But you know, other than that, but yeah. So I I I think you sit down in person, have a cup of coffee with the guy, maybe even take your wife and the two of you sit down and just say, "I I I number one, we want

to say thank you. We want to be grateful. We don't want to be entitled.

We don't want to seem bratty. We want to honor you and honor the gift. And we need your wisdom on something. >> Yeah. You've changed our life. So, thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. This is incredible. It's mind-blowing. And we need your wisdom on something. Here's what we think makes sense. What do you think?

And that's I I think you'll get a positive response and then I'd sell the car. >> And if you don't get a positive response, you get an answer and then you can move on with your life. >> Yeah. You just drive the stupid car.

Yeah, I mean I I would I would have to honor it if he holds you to it, but I just it's an very unusual human being that's going to do that. He's got some control issues in himself or something else going on. And by the way, folks, a gift with this many strings attached is not really a gift. Okay, so um yeah,

Jimmy's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Jimmy.

What's up?

Hey, I'm wondering if I should get a 529

plan for my children >> when you're at baby step five. Yes.

>> Okay. Well, I don't make a ton of money.

And I guess I'm wondering is it is it

better I have uh I'm a teacher, so I have state teachers retirement which is about 15% of my income that goes into that. And I'm wondering if it's uh

better to put additional money into a

457.

>> No. >> Or in >> You're better off to put it into a 529.

>> Okay. >> 529 grows taxfree. 457 grows tax deferred.

>> Okay. And I Well, I do have a Roth 457.

>> I still wouldn't do I still would do it.

I still would have a 529 that's growing tax-free for your kids' college when you're able to do that and ready to do that at baby step five. But don't don't

use don't use the wrong tool for the job.

>> Okay. Yeah, I'm definitely there at uh baby step five. Um >> and Jimmy, let me tell you this. I was a high school teacher in a public high school. I was an elementary school teacher at a private school. I was a university administrator.

You know what? All of those had some sort of education plan for my kids. And so I didn't open up one. I had no idea that this thing called a podcast was going to come my way down the road.

>> Okay? >> You know what I mean? And so you can have the best laid plans right now. You just don't know what the world's going to look like five or 10 years from now.

When I started teaching, there was no such thing as a podcast. It didn't exist.

YouTube was just enough. It wasn't a thing. It didn't exist. And so, man, plan for the future that you want, not the one you think you're going to have.

>> Yeah. Three cats chasing a laser.

>> That That's Yes. Pew pew.

Classic YouTube line. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I think use the right tool for the right job, you know. Don't save up for a house using your Roth IRA, people. That's not what it's for. Okay. Don't save up for your kids' college using something other than a college fund or a just a mutual

fund that you have earmarked for college if you if you want to go that way. But no, I I um wouldn't do that. I remember

Dave, I was working on some a wood project for years. I would just tool around in the garage and I would never buy chisels. I always thought I just do this with a screwdriver and a hammer.

And I finally broke down and bought chisels. >> It was amazing. >> It was amazing how much better that tool worked. The right tool for the right job. Yeah, when you're using a flathead to do your Phillips screws. >> Just Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. No kidding.

>> Yeah. That that you know, don't try to trick stuff. Just keep it real simple, real clean. Be the tortoise. Don't be

the hair. Don't look for a way to hack.

Don't look for a hack. The hack is live on less than you make. Give some and save some. Tada. There's your hack.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Tom is in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Tom. Merry Christmas.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> Um, I just needed some advice on I guess

how to deal with a parent who has developed a gambling addiction. Um,

>> she's elderly. Um, I lost my dad about 5

years ago and she was not left in great shape financially. Uh so when he was alive and in the last say four or five years we would pick up some of her bills here and there and then um we found out about the gambling addiction. She lives on um just social security and loses about 25% of that to a casino.

>> How old is she? >> Um she's 80. >> Mhm.

and loses lives on like $2,300 and and

lost, you know, over about $7,000 last

year.

>> Um, so I guess I just have a lot of guilt as to not not helping her really

with her bills any longer because of the gambling addiction, not talked to her about it. And for example, we know in

about a year she's going to need a car

and I'm not willing to give her the

money for the car since I know a large portion of her money goes towards gambling. But I've developed a lot of guilt because of this because I guess we're fairly um fortunate financially.

So I don't know the next >> What's your I don't understand your question. What's your question?

Well, the other shoe's going to drop soon. And should I be funding her even

though she has this this addiction?

Should I be taking care of her bills? I I She'll never go without food or shelter. But >> Sure. Well, I So, at the end of the day, when one of the hardest things in the world to do is when somebody you love, and in this case, your mom. So, that's like the like the epicenter of love, right? It's your mom. when your mom says and when a loved one says, "I don't want your help." And you know, you see the train coming down the tracks, you know they're going to need it.

But the boundary right now is >> for right now, I'm I'm not going to pay I'm not going to bail you out anymore.

And then when the day comes that she's moving into your house, which you know is going to come sooner rather than later, then you will be able to make choices for how you help and support and love her.

Yeah. The the thing is you you have to define help. And when you assist someone

in a self-destructive behavior, that is not help.

>> No. >> When you buy a drunk a drink, it's not help. And so, um, it is, you know, and

that that's what you're facing. And and so, yeah, it's just >> it's heartbreaking. >> It's it's but it's very hard to love

some. It requires much more courage to love someone well than to just wuss out and throw money at them, >> right? >> And so, yeah, you know, the other the other extreme is this. Mom, I'm more than happy to take care of you and make sure you're okay, but in order for me to do that, I will have to take over all your money and ma manage it for you and you will never be in a casino again,

>> which we've discussed. And she will not >> Yeah. >> will not do that. >> Yeah, she's not gonna do that. So, she's choosing to stand in front of a train

and she's an competent quote unquote

uh you know, a doctor has not declared her early onset or something like that.

She's uh you know, legally competent

adult and so the law says she gets to do

stupid stuff because stupid is not illegal yet. Our prisons would be vastly overcrowded. But yeah. >> So, are are you married?

>> Uh I am. Yes. >> So, I I think the more productive use of this guilt and these feelings and this energy that you feel is to sit down with your wife and say, "When the day comes, what are we going to be willing to do when it comes to are we going to move her in? Do we have a room here? Do we have a space here? Are we going to fund her apartment? Like, what's that going to look like?" And go ahead and get that on paper. You all agree to that?

>> Yeah. I will I will if you're if you're financially set and you want to use some of your money to help your mom provided you take over all of her bills and all of her income and you stop this behavior, you know, as a part of as a part of the deal. But mom's not willing to do that right now. But there'll be a day where she's going to run this thing into the wall and she's going to be stuck and you go, "Well, you know, my

terms are still the same, Mom. When I take over, there'll be no more of that,

>> right? and you're going to be taken care of. You will never want for food or shelter or transportation or clothing.

You'll not have any problems. You'll be taken care of. But taken care of does not include casinos. Nope.

>> Nope. >> Okay. >> You know, and you're just It's just hard. >> Yeah. >> It's just hard. Uh the sandwich generation taking care of a kid, taking care of your parents at the same time.

You get squeezed between. >> Let me say it this way, Tom. There's no bad feelings here. You're allowed to feel guilty. You're allowed to feel mad.

You're allowed to feel frustrated. You're allowed to feel mad at your dad for not setting her up. Like, whatever feelings you have are all good and right. >> Mad at the casino for taking care of taking advantage of an 80-year-old widow. Hello. I could be mad about that.

>> So, there's no bad feelings. It's just what are you going to do next?

>> And that's the question. >> Yeah.

But but Dave, the the the

it's hard in a culture that you've been told either a your feelings are everything. Just do what you feel, which is always wrong. >> Awful advice, but also the idea of feelings don't count. They never matter.

Forget them. Never feel them. That's bad, too. You have to feel them and then you got to go do the next right thing.

And that's where people get hung up. And it's hard. >> It's hard. >> Yeah.

I mean, just say it out loud. This sucks. >> Yeah, it is. You know, >> so the right thing is it it you know, and maybe getting your mom a car.

Maybe she wouldn't go sell the car to gamble the money way. Like you have to go through all the >> give her if you give her a car, just keep it in your name. >> Yeah. It's mine.

>> Can't sell it. >> You can borrow it. >> You can use this car. >> Yeah.

>> And that way it doesn't turn into gambling money. Yeah. >> But of course, the reason she can't pay for her own car is because she's gambled the money way. That was also his point.

So yeah. >> Yeah. It's just there's something always going on. And at what point does an 80-year-old quit driving?

I mean, there's all that, too. So, I I don't I don't know what her health condition is. I don't know what's going on with her. So, >> the thing beneath the thing is might be you have an really lonely 80-year-old woman and you go into a casino and there's people there and people will talk to you and they'll smile to you and they'll bring you a diet coke and like it may be when you move into my house we're going to have to figure out some ways for you to get some connection in the last years of your life or whatever that looks like.

>> Yeah, that's >> But Dave, we keep getting these calls on gambling, man. It's just >> gambling is uh this was casino here, but online and

particularly sports betting is just raping America. >> It's a just cleaning out. I mean, if you

guys don't think that FanDuel and DraftKings and whatever other stupid butt commercials on every break on every

game you watch, you know, you know what they're paying for those commercials?

That's some of the most expensive commercials you could buy on a live sporting event. And uh and they are, you

know, they're making billions off of you people. And and y'all are just standing back going, "Well, isn't this fun? I lost everything." You know, scout them out. You're going to lose your wife. You're going to lose your kids. You're going to lose your job. But but I'm really good at betting on football, you Unbelievable, man. It's just so

wins, >> man. >> The house wins. just, you know, follow the money. You know, Vegas hotels were

not built on the backs of losers, on winners. They're built on the backs of losers. And that's what you are when you walk in there immediately. house wins, you're a loser in so many ways.

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One of the things we've railed on for years around here is the fact that time

shares are legalized fraud. 85% of all

time share buyers regret their purchase yet cannot cancel it due to a short

recision window. 95% of time share

buyers go back to their resort sales team for more information within 1 to 3 days. On Trust Pilot, Marriott Vacation now has a 1.3 stars out of five.

According to ARTA, the maintenance fees go up 17.5% a year and

$50 million in losses last year alone to

the elderly. The AARP says for time shares, the time share business is absolutely a billiondoll fraud. The

whole thing has been screwing primarily the elderly, but also those of you that are silly enough to walk in there for a quote free vacation and then they lock you in a hot box for 5 hours until you agree to sign. And we tell you over and over and over again, stay away from these people. They're slimy. They're crooks. It's a horrible business. I hope I've not been unclear. So, I was really happy to get a call the other day from US Senator John Curtis, Utah's Senator,

and uh he is has a bill coming up before the Senate to uh regulate the freaking

time share business finally. So, he's

we've become instant friends because of that. And I asked him to come on and talk about his bill. Senator Curtis, thanks for joining us. >> Dave, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed your intro. I I love your

passion. Uh, thank you for being so passionate about this. I am I am honored to be um co-conspirator with you and reigning in this terrible, terrible problem. >> So, what got you on the time share thing? Why did you decide to do this?

>> You know, I over time I've heard from so many people and it kind of came to a head when a good friend uh reached out to me and said, "Look, you're in the Senate. Why don't you do something about this?" And uh so, you know what? He's right. I sat down with my team and we started thinking about what we could do to to put some guard rails on this.

>> So, the bill has now officially been introduced. >> That's correct. >> When you and I talked a few months ago, you just had it drafted and we were able to talk about it on the phone and you were showing me what it was going to cover and I particularly like several of the things that that the uh bill does.

Talk about the items in the bill to limit the time share world.

>> Yeah, it's pretty simple. First of all, you should know what you're buying. There should be transparency. Second of all, you should know if there's going to be radical changes to to what you've bought.

And third of all, you should be able to change your mind within a agreed upon period of time. And then, let's face it, if 85% of the people regret getting into it, there needs to be some way for them to get out of it. And that's a simplification of what the bill does. >> Yeah.

One of the things I saw in there was it grants the buyers a 14-day penalty-free cancellation period, which uh I've been trashing the time share business and they've been coming back at me, have sued me and done everything else all over for for decades now.

a horrid business. And from my understanding of talking with those guys, a 14-day penalty-free cancellation period will cut their sales by 70%.

You'll probably put them out of business. Well, listen. If any business

is dependent on getting people to do something they don't want to do, then they perhaps should go out of business.

Now, my goal is not to put them out of business, right? My goal is just to make it so people can can trust what they're getting into. You you well know that a lot of these people are on vacation.

They're away from their children, their financial adviserss, their lawyers, and

then they they do these deals and by the time they get around those people who generally give them advice, it's too late. >> Yeah. There's no no backing out and there's no way to sell the stupid thing because nobody wants to buy them.

There's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them for sale on eBay for a dollar. >> Yeah. And the reason is is they they now come with this liability of these these monthly or annually fees that are so exorbitant. Far greater than any amount of money that you could spend and have a really great vacation. And that's why they're worthless. >> Yeah. I mean, $13,000 will buy you a lot of freaking Hilton. Hello. I mean, come on people. And then you mortgage it too.

You mortgage air because you're not even getting real estate. There's no title here. You have a two week stay maybe.

Probably not at the place they told you it would be. And then you want, oh, you can go to Hawaii. Nah, never happening.

That's the biggest line of crap. It never occurs. Okay. So, the bill has been introduced. What are the next stages? And what can our listeners do to help you uh protect the public from this industry? >> This is where I need their help. Uh I I know that the size of the audience if if even a fraction of those call their senator and say please hop on the time share transparency act that's what I need. I need more senators to join me.

You know this battle is pretty lonely and and right now you know you and I are feeling pretty alone on this. We need senators engaged and we need people to call their senators and say look I've had one of these bad experiences. Please support this bill.

>> That simple. Just so if you're listening to this and you know somebody's been screwed by a time share or you have and you think a 14-day waiting period is at least fair. Um I I would be yeah that's

a minimum and but the the impact of this would be and mandate disclosure of all

uh fees and notice requirements and all the changes and dad gum 17% increase on

average every year in the maintenance fees. See, that stuff needs to be disclosed upfront >> for and that's all we're asking is transparency. If people still want to make that decision and they know all of these things and have a reasonable amount of time to get out of it, fine.

But as you well know, most of the people wouldn't sign up for that if they were given the time and the space to make a good decision. >> Right. And AARP has actually come out in

support of the bill. They've endorsed it. Right. >> I actually spoke with them just a few minutes ago. they enthusiastically supported and sadly you mentioned this many of the people that that get into these are our seniors and like I say they're away from their normal support structure when they get into these very very high pressure sales techniques they they maybe make a bad decision and then they don't have a window to change that decision that's just wrong.

>> Yeah. And you're not actually buying anything so you can't sell it and yet you have debt on it. it it I I swear one attorney that does the exits on this calls it legalized fraud and I don't disagree with him. I completely agree with that. So the Timeshare Transparency

Act is live and well in the Senate.

Senator John Curtis from Utah has introduced it and he needs some cover from you people in the audience. So reach out, ping your senator, send him an email, give him a call whether you know him or not, and just say, "Hey, you need to back Senator John Curtis's Time Share Transparency Act." Cuz I got to tell you, this business is full of

money. And they will be throwing a serious battle up to not be forced to

give transparency. This is when icky icky icky politics starts working right here. Icky, sticky mess. And so Senator

Curtis is right. They're gonna come at him. They've been coming at me for years. I'm used to it. And I just bring it, buddy. Bring it. I hate you people.

I'll take it. I'll come on. That's fine.

But uh I think you suck. But anyway,

he's being a lot more diplomatic because he's a US senator and I'm just a podcaster. So, but you guys u you know,

reach out to him, reach out to your senator, reach out to your congressman because it'll have to go through Congress as well. and just let's get some political cover on this from the consumer base to protect the consumer.

That simple. And uh and in the meantime,

stay out of those places. Just stay away

from them. Snakes bite. Don't pick up snakes. Why is this hard? These guys are unbelievable. So, Senator Curtis, thank you so much for taking your time to join us, brother. >> Thanks. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for your support >> and thanks for what you're doing to get this bill on the floor. the Timeshare Transparency Act. Yeah. In other words,

if you could see what these people were doing, no one would do it.

That's how this works. I mean, come on.

This is really not hard. So, check it out, guys. We've been saying around here forever, time shares suck. Hector wrote in. He said, "I'm 26 years old. I currently have about $13,000 in debt for Hilton Honors." Uh,

time share. The time share has been a major burden. And I'm pay $218 a month plus over $1,200 in maintenance fees every January. Honey, you could have stayed in a nice hotel for less.

A lot.

I realize it was a mistake and I'm looking for a way out. I have no way out. You're right. You're stuck. You're screwed.

Dave, the the thing I I'm struggling with here is I don't really know where you stand on time shares,

man. Yeah, Hilton bought um was it

Diamond? I got into it. The guy running Diamond on the Air. I was doing a Twitter fight with him a while back, Mikey. And he got fired finally and he was the president of the company and I was I was just taking him down cuz he's such a slimeball.

And uh so they Hilton buys that company for like a billion dollars. And so now Hilton has Hilton has absorbed diamond. And so what all these diamond time shares which are really particularly scummy, they now are under the brand name of Hilton. Hilton's damaged their own brand with this. It was legitimate brand and now they delegitimized themselves.

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Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Baby, Christiey's with us in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi Christie, how

are you? >> Hey, I'm blessed. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Merry Christmas.

How can we help?

>> Um, yes, we are about to lose 80% of our

income. And so >> why >> I was wondering, well, my husband got in a really bad coal mining accident in August of 2024.

>> And he um it almost chopped his hand off. It was so bad. He's still under doctor's care, workman's comp, but he's getting ready to lose the workman's comp. And he's got a couple checks left coming that we do know of before they cut him off. But I don't know if I need to use that money to pay off what I can.

>> Okay. So, he's unable to be a coal miner because of the injury.

>> Yes. >> And how is it that they're getting away with not paying him for the rest of his life for that?

>> Well, that is something that we are going to push for, but during the time

being, I mean, um, he won't get anything

until we fight it. if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's been a year and some change. Why are we not yet fighting it?

>> Because um our um legal adviser told us

that we needed to wait until he was completely done with all doctor's care.

That way, he can continue to get the care that he needs for his hand. And then after it's over, then >> there's no union contract that covers any of these these injuries?

>> No.

I would. Is it? This is unionized though, isn't it?

>> Um, I'm not sure.

>> He's not in a union.

>> No. No. That's >> interesting. >> Okay. Um, >> all right. So, Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, your your attorney is you you have faith in your attorney that this is good advice and you're going to be ready to go because I suspect this is something I mean, he was hurt on the job permanently. I think they're probably going to have to support him, but uh but that you know, but you're right. In the meantime, okay, so what's the status of his injury now? How's he doing in general?

>> Okay. Um he's unable to use his hand. Um

they had to amputate his thumb. It did gloved him from his palm all the way up his forearm. >> Oh god. >> Um tendon, ligament repair. They had to take muscle out of his hand. It has been a terrible >> catastrophe. Yeah. Um I obviously Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

>> The Lord has helped us though. I'm telling you, if it was not for the Lord, we there's no way that we could have >> Amen. >> been where we are today. >> So, what I'm thinking about, how how old is he? >> He's 35. >> Okay. This is an absolute tragedy and it's absolutely horrible. I'm so sorry.

And if I'm him, I got the rest of my life. I got to figure out what I'm going to do.

Yes. >> And nothing is not an option,

>> right?

>> So, um, lots of people have

sadly gone through losing a limb or losing the use of something and have managed to find productive work of some kind, maybe using your mind instead of

your body, or maybe using prosthetics to

get a different kind of a job done. Um,

but I I really want him to be thinking about other than sitting around waiting on the lawyer to call him, uh, I want him to think about what the what his next career is.

>> Yeah, he's he has been doing that. I mean, >> so what's the plan? >> Um, >> well, he uh really likes to detail

vehicles. He's always liked to do that.

Um, and that is something that he >> What did he used to make as a minor?

um close to um 100 grand a year almost.

>> Okay. And so let's start talking about detailing a detailing business, car detailing business that makes 100 grand,

>> right? >> It could be done. That's that's doable.

>> It might be it might be he has five kids doing has five crews doing car dealing and it car detailing and he owns a business not just as doing it himself.

>> I mean I I don't know. Let's let's start looking for a path where we don't start with the assumption of we lost 80% of our income for the rest of our lives. No. No. How about we lost none of our income and we get the benefit of this

lawsuit.

>> Yeah.

So, um I mean as soon as he is

physically able with somebody to hire somebody to help him and then the two of them can do

a car detailing. He needs to get started detailing cars now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Merry Christmas. You got a pressure washer for Christmas.

>> He already has tons of that stuff.

>> All right. Well, let's get let's get our button gear. Let's get our button gear.

And then we don't have to sit and try to solve for an 80% cut in pay. We're going

to have some cut in pay and you've been through this horrible tragedy and all of that's real, but let's minimize the damage that it does by getting back to work sooner than later. Is that okay?

>> Yes. Um as soon as I guess as soon as he's able to. I mean >> Yeah. And I I don't know the medical condition and I can't even imagine that cuz basically if I have a hangail I end up in intensive care. I'm a complete wuss. So I can't even imagine what he has gone through. And I would not ever dare to even begin to understand the

pain or the loss or the emotional scars

that go with this whole tragedy. But uh I I can't even get there cuz I'm I'm a complete wuss. I mean really it's it's ridiculous how how big a wuss I am. And so, but the so anyway I still though if

I'm him I'm going to go back to work.

>> Yes. And he I mean he wants to do that but as of now I mean he can't even lift

over 15 pounds. I have to help him do

everything. I mean his back

uh no is the >> he can't lift anything with that hand but the other hand he can lift more than 15 pounds.

>> Yes. Yes. Um but um I help him do a lot

um because of the hand injury. Um he try

he does as much as he can. I mean and he's a go-getter. He's always worked 60 plus hours a week. >> Yeah. I'm assuming I'm not accusing the guy being lazy. Please not even close.

But the u I'm assuming you're doing a lot of physical therapy as well, right?

>> Yes. He has done it over and over.

>> Yeah, I bet. I'm so sorry. Even even if

he has to go work a register somewhere

just for the time being, like there's the physical ailment here, but he lost his identity.

Coal miners have a like >> an ethos. >> Yeah. They've got a a spirit about them.

They're tougher than the rest of the people. They do work that nobody will do. There's there's a spirit and that's

been taken from him. And so even just

grinding out a shift at a gas station, sitting on a stool, like checking people out with their waters and their and their snuff cans, he'll at least start

to slowly get back a little bit of that I'm providing. You get what I'm saying, >> right? And right now he's okay, not okay with it because he is drone workers come, but he's still constantly like, I need to do something. I need to go.

>> He's right. He's right. Yeah. But here hear him say that's a spiritual thing.

No, I'm I'm serious. Hire hire a college student that's home for the holidays to go out and help him and get his let's get this detail business started.

>> Good idea, >> you know, and and somebody go be with him and and the two of them together get it done and he can manage the customers and manage the money and do some of the work. Uh some of the stuff is doable, I suppose. I don't know. I don't I mean, I'm just reading into this, but all of this to say, let's not start with the premise we're going to lose 80% of our income. Let's start with the premise that we're going to lose 80% of our income for a month.

>> But but to go back to your original question, we're not going to take all the remaining cash we have and try to pay off everything. We're going to pay minimums and stack cash, right? >> No, you stack cash. You just you're in the middle of a hurricane.

So, you just stack up cash. How big a big how you're in the middle of what's called an emergency, right? >> So, you don't use anything. You use you pile money up.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

>> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids, and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me.

And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

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or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. When you pre-order, you're getting a bargain and getting a bunch of stuff for free. We're bribing you to buy our book early because it helps us with the marketing. So, thank you for doing that, by the way. It's a big help for Jade and for us. We appreciate you. All right, Preston's with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Preston. What's up?

>> Hey, merry Christmas. Thank you for having my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um, I was wondering if it would be

unwise to pull out of the 401k to pay

off the car. Yes. >> Before the our baby is due.

>> 100%. Yes. Absolutely. Terrible idea.

Don't do this.

>> Okay. Um, >> have we been clear? >> No. And I knew >> here's here's why. When you pull it out early, you get a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So, if you're in a 20% tax bracket, the 10% penalty, that's 30%.

That's like saying, "Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my car." No.

>> Yeah. No, you're right. That that's that's that's silly. >> It's a depreciating asset. >> I'm starting to panic. >> Yeah. What do you owe on the car? >> Our baby? >> Uh about 8,000.

>> Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> Uh 58,500 uh salary. >> Okay. And And you have a baby due when?

>> In March. >> How old are you? Um, I'm 29 years old. >> Good for you. So, what's the panic?

>> Um, well, so my wife, she makes about

the same amount of money. Um, and we're planning on for her to, you know, move to a part-time or even less position after we have our child.

Um, and our our rent is too high. Um,

>> how much is a part?

>> It's 1,700 a month.

>> Okay. Um, and so that along with all the

other I mean, um, so I married her and I

have never had debt. Um, and when we got

married, I I I kind of panicked when I saw like um, all the monthly bills that come out for like student loans and that kind of stuff. >> How much other debt other than the car do you all have?

>> It's about $23,000 total.

>> Okay. All right. Cool.

>> Um, >> all right. So here you you are a guy who likes to have no debt and and plenty of

room in the budget and you have neither of those. And so the word panic comes up a lot in a conversation with you.

>> Yes. >> Okay, that's fair. That's fair. So what we need to do is to develop a game plan to a get rid of the debt and b make sure

we have the margin for her to go to

part-time. I don't know if you do or not. You may not have that option,

but you need to decide that not with your heart, but with your math because you're grown-ups.

>> Yes. >> And it may be that she's got to work 6 months after this baby's born, so you'll clear everything out. You get some margin, and then she can take all the time off she wants. >> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Listen, listen to me and Dave. We're two emotional guys.

I won't speak for Dave. I've felt the panic you're feeling right now. I've felt it. >> I have, too. >> And what I'll tell you is panic makes us

make bad decisions.

>> It's your body screaming at you. You're an emergency. Just start running. I don't care where. And that's where there's a loan company telling you consolidate with us. Or that's when you're going to >> take out a 401k loan. Borrow money on your or take cash out your 401k and you

only have $8,000 in debt. You only have 23 total. eight on the car and you make

58 and she makes 58, that's 116. This is

very doable. We've just got to decide how she ramps down and when she ramps down so that we clear these debts. And the way to do that is get yourself on a detailed budget and the two of you together are looking at the numbers like two grown-ups cuz we have a little person we get to watch over now.

>> Okay? And that that will remove a lot of the the anxiety because one of the things that causes panic or anxiety in these cases is the unknown. When you

actually know in detail what the villain

looks like, he's not nearly as scary.

That's >> right. >> So, I want you to get the detail of your budget down. The two of you where every stinking dollar is going

and maybe we're not eating out. Maybe we're not going on vacation. Maybe we're not buying X, Y, or Z. I don't know.

Probably all of that. And we're going to clear up these stinking debts and we don't have any debt payments. All we've got is the rent and baby formula. We can make it fine. And then that's when she could back down. John may be right. She may be back to work for a little while.

But you guys need to make that decision with a calculator, not a not a feeling.

>> And Preston, let me tell you this. If every time she sits down to do a budget with you, you go into panic mode.

>> She doesn't want to do it. >> She don't want to sit down with have a budget with you. So, if that's been you, here's a great way to to sit down and have this conversation. I'm sorry. I

have made these budget meetings chaotic and stressful for you and I get panicked. I'm sorry. We got a baby

coming. I'm going to be calm and we're going to come up with a game plan together. And maybe I'll decide she is going to stay at home, go to part-time, and you're going to start driving Uber at night until Whimo takes that away. or I'm gonna get a second job for six months and get these things knocked out and then I'm gonna be at home and be present. Y'all have a math problem in front of you. >> That's it. That's all. >> That's it. >> There's nothing to panic about, though.

>> No, >> nothing here. You have a very doable situation. You're not going to be without food. The baby's fine.

Everybody's okay. You're going to be fine. There's not It's just a matter of how quickly you get some of the financial stressors off of you and instead turn towards wealth building.

And we'll help you with that. We'll put you into Every Dollar as our gift. Let's make it a baby shower gift. Okay. So, Christian will pick up and we'll get you signed up for Every Dollar. John, I have

noticed and I'm sure from uh your PhD in

counseling, you probably could speak to why this is, but I've noticed when I sat down with couples um doing one-on-one

coaching over the years that the uh the

unknown is way more stressful than the known. So they come in with like a box, like a shoe box full of bills and we get

them all out and we just start writing, making lists and throwing them in the trash, making lists, throwing them in the trash because there's usually 17 multiples, you know, duplicates, like re another notice and another notice and another notice all on the same bill. So it's really just one number, but there's seven pieces of paper, so let's just get it down to one piece of paper, throw it away, and you just clean the thing up and organize it.

I thought it was." >> Right? >> Or it when somebody says, "I'm exhausted. I'm frustrated." That lets me know they're working a hard plan. And I go, "Yeah, two more years. One more year." Like, there's no way around that.

When someone says, "I'm panicking. I'm I'm anxious." >> They don't know the plan. >> Almost always means I don't have a plan. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And when I write it out on a budget and you see that I can eat and I see that I can keep the lights and the water on and I see that the rent can be paid and we can buy baby formula and I see that we can do this. We just can't go on vacation this year. But we can do we can

live. Then every time I see I can do one

more thing, the anxiety, the stress

drops. >> Yes. >> And okay, I can eat. So it goes down.

Oh, we got lights and water. Oh, I'm okay. Oh, we get to pay the rent. Oh, we're going to be okay. Oh, and I can pay the car. Oh, and we pay the payment.

Yeah, we just can't get extra on it. Oh, okay. >> It's when your body feels like it's being acted upon, it goes into panic.

When it knows that you're taking action, it it might be might still be scary. It might still be frustrating, but it won't send you into panic because it knows you're driving. >> Yeah. Bad news or tough news that's

clear is way less stress inducing than

not knowing. than not knowing. It's all right.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Susan is in Jacksonville, Florida. Merry Christmas, Susan.

>> Merry Christmas and God bless.

>> Bless you. How can we help?

>> So, I wrote you an email. I am 57 years

old. I um >> You're what? You're 57.

>> I'm 57. I'm 57. 57. 57 years old.

>> Okay. >> I thought you said 67. That was going to be bad for all of us.

>> So, um I never thought about retirement.

It was just something not in my in in my

vocabulary.

Um, I spent my 20s and 30s having a good time. Um, very unusual. But now that I'm

57, I'm starting to think about things I should have thought of a long time ago.

So, I have a little bit in savings. I have a little bit in an IRA. And my question is, is it too late for me to think about retirement?

>> Yeah, it's over. You're just so old.

You're so old, Susan. You're so old. If you can't do anything, >> you need to go to the bar and find you somebody cuz it's over for you.

>> Of course not. Of course not. Now,

obviously it would have been better if you started when you were 27, but that's in the rearview mirror. So, let's just deal with what we got. What do you make a year? >> I make $50,000 a year.

>> Okay. Okay. So, if you save 15% of that, that's 7500 fully fund a Roth IRA tax-free growth in a good growth stock

mutual fund. And if you do that for the next um 10, 15 years, you're going to have a pretty sizable chunk of money.

>> Okay. >> Probably a million dollars.

>> Seriously? >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, $7,500 a year into a Roth IRA.

>> Mhm. in good growth stock mutual funds.

>> Okay, >> jump online with at ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvetor and those are those are investment advisors that we

uh uh endorse. They don't work for us

but we vetted them and they have the heart of a teacher. And I want you to become a student of this. It's not rocket science. You can do it. I can do it. Everybody can do it. and just sit down and learn how that mutual fund works and learn how that Roth IRA works and have it automatically drafted out of your checking account. And if you get any raises in the future, and you probably will, increase the amount that you're saving, clear your debts, get the house paid off, and if you come into 70

years old, 13 years from now, with a

pile of money in your Roth IRA and a paid for house, you're going to be in really good shape.

>> Okay, sounds good. But you but you're going to have to concentrate on it like you said for the first time.

>> Well, one of the things too is that I don't own a home anymore. I sold my house. Um so I rent well I will be

renting right now. I Why

um I don't know to be honest. It was I was living it was just getting too crazy. >> Um >> what was crazy?

>> Well, my business suffered dramatically during the pandemic. I had a catering business >> and so when the pandemic hit, I lost

$4,000 a month in income in a blink of an eye. >> And I had a very difficult time bouncing back. >> Are you bounced?

>> I'm still I'm still trying to get back on track. >> Why? Five years later.

>> It's when you're in the hospitality industry and I >> No, honey. We we we pay thousands and tens of thousands of dollars to caterers every year. I don't know one I don't know one that hadn't bounced back.

>> Yeah. I don't know why. I I I don't That's one of the mysteries that I don't know why. Um I think I've been making some poor decisions. >> Yeah. Like you're still living in the

trauma and the pain. Got PTSD from the

pandemic. Me too, by the way.

>> But um I mean every time I hear the word Fouchy, I still want to flip. So, um,

you know, it's just, uh, somebody if I see somebody in a mask, I just go crazy.

So, I mean, I understand. But,

but anyway, all right, Susan, I did the math for you. Okay. How much is in your IRA right now?

>> 50 57,000.

>> Oh, 57. That's even better. All right, check this out. You ready?

>> Uh-huh.

>> 57,000. I'm going to put in here 75. I'm

on the Ramsay investment calculator.

>> 7500 a year. at 7,500 a year. At 77

years old, okay.

>> Uhhuh. >> If you put 625 bucks a month, that's $7,500 a year. You're going to have $1,50,000.

>> Okay? And that's going to be enough for me in retirement. >> It'll be more than you have now.

>> Okay? Okay.

>> And you're going to have more than that because you're going to get the catering business moving again. You're going to get over the PTSD, start smiling and cooking again. I appreciate that. >> Yeah. You got you go get this. Go get those customers back. Don't let some other caterer have them.

>> Okay. >> You want me to give you I want to give you a wild homework assignment. You ready? >> Yes. >> Do you live by yourself right now?

>> I do. >> I want you to write a letter to your 77year-old self and tell her about what you decided to do at age 57 so that she could have a million dollars in retirement.

>> Okay, I can do that.

>> Called these weird guys on a podcast. I went to their website. I got a Smart Invest Pro. I got my business kicked in the butt and moving again. And I put started putting 7500 a year away. And I even put more than that away because later on I started making so stinking much money. I wanted to have a million faster than 77. I didn't want to I wanted to get it at 67. So, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. That's going to get you there after it. Pretty cool. That's a good idea. Write yourself a letter.

There's something powerful about getting out of your body and putting it on the on imagining yourself at 77 sitting in

that same crummy recliner you got and thinking I can go to sleep tonight cuz I got a million dollars in retirement right now. >> Yeah. And let's talk about owning a home during that time again. >> Yeah. >> When when it is appropriate for you.

Yeah. So yeah, it it's um

it's very real though to emotionally

uh still have scars from the economic

damage that was done to your life during the Fouchy pandemic. >> Well, it it it's you can't you can have everything in line and then all of a sudden you wake up on a Monday and you can't go to work anymore. Yeah. >> Or all of your business goes away. Right. And that that could be the same I know people are panicking all over the country about AI like I'm just going to wake up tomorrow my job will be gone and

um that could be paralyzing and that goes back to the thing we were talking about in an earlier segment. Feel that that fear is real fine and then get on about the next right thing which is get after it. I tell you what man we spend so much time with millennials and Gen Z's that um the every article I I've

read probably five different things this week that were credible. I think I'm really starting to believe there are going to be more millionaires created by AI than any other technology disruption to come along. >> There's a very real possibility.

>> I think some people are going to use AI like people, you know, people use the internet and digital to access and to start a business that they never would have dreamed prior to that and became millionaires. This is exponentially

>> that times a billion. Yeah. >> Exponentially larger. >> Yeah. And so I think the opportunity of AI is so huge that it offsets what little bit of pain is going to come from that. That's the plan. Wow. Yeah. Go get

you some.

That's a plan.

Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Rei? If you've

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That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Not in all states. >> Oh, I love this question, Dave. This one's for you. Today's question comes from Sam in Michigan.

Sam writes, "My 16-year-old son, who's an avid listener of the Ramsay Show, has been buying and fixing up cars since he was 14." Good for him, man. He recently refurbished a Trans Am. >> Oh, man. >> And is conflicted about what to do with it.

>> Oh, me too. >> He wants to turn on Whit Snake and have somebody dance on the hood. So, part of him wants to >> Smokey and the Bandit. What are you talking about?

>> And move on to the next project. But the other part of him wants to take it to the racetrack and enjoy the fruits of his labor. car is about onethird of his net worth.

I kind of want to let the kid drive the car. That's just my thought. But >> so yeah, I mean the Trans Am had a 455

in it. It's a freaking >> If y'all are listening to this, >> click over to YouTube and watch it cuz Dave's smiling away. >> Huge engine in that thing. That's the Smokeoky and the Bandit car. Bert Reynolds, Sally Fields, the whole thing. That's the car. >> Yeah. >> And the thing would it's if if he put it

back together the way it was originally, it's incredible. Yeah. Um Okay. So, what

Dave can >> So, what what is the wise thing to do here? Okay. The important part of this

whole story is not the car.

>> Correct. It is the kid.

This kid has already figured out that he

is the secret sauce, not the vehicle.

He's just he he can so he'll be able to

land on his feet no matter where he lands, no matter where he goes, no matter what he does. So this car

onethird of his net worth when he's freaking 16 years old.

>> Who has a net worth at 16 years old?

Nobody. So let's not worry about this, right? So the I I think he continues to

learn lessons that teach him that he is

the variable, not the car. >> Yes. >> And so I think you enjoy the car. Not just because I'm a car freak and I think this is a very cool car. But all that aside, I'm not saying it because I'm thinking what I want this 16-year-old to come away with is not build up something

and then protect it and guard it. Build

up something, enjoy it, and know that the reason I got this is not because of dumb luck. It's because of my effort.

>> I worked hard. And can I can I say this?

If he goes out and blows it up at 16, that might be the greatest thing that ever happened to him. >> And he learns the lesson. >> What a great lesson he'll learn. >> Yeah. go. Well, next time I'm not going I don't know that he's going to blow it up. I mean, just cuz he puts on race track, he could wreck it, I guess, but >> or he may devalue it or whatever, but >> yeah, but he fix it back up.

>> But I mean, he has learned that I can

I had a guy speak one time. He said that everything that's created is created twice. It's first created in your mind.

>> Huh. >> And then you physically create the thing. >> Yeah. And what he has figured out is is that he can create something in his mind and then cause that future to occur. The cause and effect of hard work, the cause and effect of thinking out into the future and not just being distracted by all the stuff that other people are distracted with, which is stupidity everywhere, right? >> And instead, this guy actually says, "Okay, I can buy this, fix it, and turn it into something." And what I learned

from that is that that that I have the

ability to affect my own future, a locus

of control >> both for financially and for joy, for fun. >> For for joy, for fun, for dignity, for

uh the the the uh uh pure satisfaction

and honor of a job completed and well

done.

And uh when he can get all of that crap going already at 16, this guy's going somewhere. >> And here here's the thing that >> you apply this to building a skyscraper, right? It's the same exact thing. >> But but if here's what the the lost cost

here is. Um >> Sam can flip or Sam your son can flip this thing and sell it and get on to the next thing. But what you might be also missing out on is yes, he's going to go have fun and drive fast around a racetrack. kid loves cars obviously, but he's going to get around other drivers and he might get around other drivers that are like, "Hey, can you work on my car? Hey, could you I know a guy who can help with and so by being around other

car guys, that's going to elevate his entire game and maybe get him out of your garage and into his own shop. I mean, there's so many other >> if this is his destiny, >> right? That's right. >> If he never works on another car again, but all he gets out of this whole thing is is that he understands he controls things. >> Yeah. >> He controls his destiny. He creates it in his mind and then he causes his future to come to pass. That is money.

Yeah, >> that's money in the bank right there.

>> And so, yeah, I'd go to the racetrack.

Um, he might bump into Shelby.

>> Yeah, that's what I mean.

>> And he might bump into Ferrari of the future. >> And Sam, can I tell you something that would really honor the 16-year-old? Ask him if you can sit in the passenger side on the first ride.

That would be cool. Man, I don't know if I could do that. >> That'd be cool. Hang on tight. But that would be >> I could I could I could drive it, but I don't think I could sit there. Oh god. >> Yeah, >> that makes my stomach hurt.

16-year-old in a Trans Am.

>> But a 16-year-old looking over and seeing his dad smiling real big.

>> Give me a slow lap and then I'll get out and then you can go. Okay, >> let's cook it. Let's cook it. >> Oh man, that's great.

I I got to tell you, Sam, you ought to be proud of him and it has nothing to do with the car and it has nothing to do with the racetrack. you just ought you've done a good job with him and he's obviously a great young man and I predict huge things for this guy. I think he's a stud. All right, Katie's with us in Phoenix.

>> Hey Dave, uh my question is about how to decide between paying off our house versus using the proceeds from a rental sale to reinvest in real estate. So a

few weeks ago you mentioned using cash on cash return to decide whether to keep or sell a rental. My husband and I have a rental in another state which gives us a 4% return which is far from the 8 to 10% return you recommend.

>> So we're planning on listing it for 750K in January. >> Cool. >> Uh it's paid it's paid for, but if we sell it and use the proceeds to pay off our primary house where we still owe 440K, we'd owe about 71K in taxes

because we've already taken 90K in depreciation. And like you, we hate giving the government any more taxes than we need to. Um, our other option is to use 550K of the proceeds to buy two

rental properties here in Arizona. Um, we already have one rental condo here that performs well. That would drop our taxes to about 16K and save us roughly 55K in taxes. We'd still be able to put

139K towards the mortgage and stay on track to pay the house off by late 2027.

Um, but if we follow baby step six strictly, we'd pay off the mortgage first and then we'd only have about 193K left, which isn't enough to pay for property and cash and we'd have to pay taxes. And we love real estate and want to grow our portfolio. So, what would you recommend we do?

>> So, 250 buys one unit because you had 500 buying two units, right?

>> Yeah. So, there's one for like 250 and one for 300.

And you could do a 1031 on just one of them and and offset the taxes.

>> Also true. Yeah. But we'd still have to pay some. >> Yeah. Some. But you'd offset a bunch of it. $250,000 worth and or the taxes on

250,000. Not 250,000 in taxes, but the

Yeah, you can shelter that much of it.

And if I did my math right,

um what you've got it dialed in. You've done a really good job. So, I had I was doing this in my head while you got it in front of you, but the It sounds like you could do a 250 unit and just about pay off the house, can't you?

>> Um, probably pretty close.

>> Yeah. And what what other savings have you got that's non-retirement?

>> Um, we have probably 900k in the stock market that we don't really want to liquidate. >> Oh, jeez.

So, this is a false dichotomy.

>> Oh my god. Roll it all into a dad gum

1031, pay no taxes,

and get you an get you an ROI and take enough out of the stupid stock market to pay off your house. >> But they got to pay capital gains on the stocks. >> Yeah, but nowhere near like you're talking about on this other You haven't got 100% gains in those things. And you've you've not got an adjusted basis where you've depreciated down your basis either. those stocks.

It's other way around. So, I I think you probably got some some last in stocks, the last ones in that have got the least gain that are nowhere near the tax implications of this. You got to crunch the math on it, but definitely I'm doing at least one rental unit on a 1031 and taking the balance out of the stocks. I might do all of it and take the balance out of the stocks.

Hey, where'd all your money go in 2025?

You don't know?

I would make you normal.

Normal's broke, by the way. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading Every Dollar. Every Dollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find the extra money and work the Ramsey plan and then put it to work. Beat debt, build wealth.

You're going to find thousands of dollars in the first 15 minutes after you open it and follow through follow through the the onboarding process.

We're going to help you get started, baby. And then we're going to hold your hand and go do this, then do that. And it's got the same great budgeting features, but it's going to help you work the plan.

New improved. Don't miss this. Don't go another year feeling broken stress.

Start every dollar for free in the App Store or on Google Play. Billy's in Fort

Worth. Hi, Billy. Merry Christmas.

>> Hey, Dave. Merry Christmas to you as well, sir. >> What's up?

>> Well, I came into a little bit of money and um I want to see if I should pay off

uh my debt, my house, and a couple of notes and whatever. And then I'm not sure what to do with the leftover. Um, I'm not too big on wanting to do uh

stocks and stuff like that, but that's what I wanted to talk to you about. >> What's a little bit of money?

>> Um, well, I have uh 52,000 in a savings

account and then I got 420 in an

insurance settlement >> lump sum.

>> Yes. >> That's a lot of money, Billy.

>> Well, yeah, it is to me and my wife.

We've never had that before. That's why I'm >> That's Wow. What happened? >> Anything to do with that? Yeah, it was um a personal injury fell and broke some

disc in my neck and lower back.

>> How you doing?

>> I'm doing much better now. I did one surgery on the neck and have another upcoming one on the back soon, but other than that, I'm doing okay. Really?

>> Wow. What do you do for a living?

>> Um I'm medically retired. I had cancer.

Um so I'm 60. My wife is 69. Uh, so I

took a kind of an early retirement because of some complications that I've run into as well. Um, I may work again,

but I'm really limited in what kind of work I can do. Um, I was in water treatment uh, working for the city for

her whole career. And so I have um,

uh, 4,000 a month in pension income and my wife is 3,500 a month in her job. Um,

so we combined like 7,500 a month in income. >> So you can easily live on that.

>> Yes. >> And how much debt do you have?

>> Um, 150 on the house,

uh, 60,000 on a a piece of land that we bought next to the house, and 33 on a car. That's all the debt that we have.

So we're like 244 in debt.

>> Okay. >> And I think if we paid everything off, that would leave us with what? 225 or so. >> Yes, sir. That's what we're That's what we're not sure what to do with or should we not pay that off and do something else? >> No, I would pay I'd pay everything off under the condition that the two of you

promise each other starting today that

you're going to live on a written budget on the Every Dollar app the rest of your life. >> Okay. >> No buying anything on debt ever. No.

>> Again? >> No. >> Because now you got 7,500 and zero bills.

Well, I guess our if we paid everything off, I think our monthly living expenses would be around 2,000 a month. That's what >> Yeah. You got 7500 coming in.

>> Yeah. You got 7,500 coming in a month.

4,3500, right?

>> Yes. Correct, sir. >> Okay. And so, you budget that and you continue to invest and grow in your

retirement. you grow some wealth and uh

you use the fact that you don't have any debt to grow you know substantial wealth in the next 10 years and we're going to use that 225 to start that o to start with that there are three things you can do with money and anytime I have excess money I tried to do some of all three

I can be generous with it generosity

ought to always be part of your financial plan giving

to others money.

Secondly, I can have fun with it. And it sounds like you're overdue for some fun.

>> No. >> And thirdly, I can invest it.

What are you two driving?

>> Um, we have a 2024 Toyota Rav and then

I've got a 22-y old pickup that I drive around. >> Okay. Do you need to upgrade the pickup?

>> No. high. It's It's perfect for, you know, for me and running around town, what I do, you know.

>> Okay. Well, if you need to spend $10,000 and upgrade the pickup, this might be the time. >> Mhm. >> And $10,000 is not exactly a new F-150.

Okay. >> I'm just saying move up out of the beater that you're driving. But you can do whatever you want to do. But that you could use some of the money for something like that. You could take a trip that you've always talked about taking. Uh, and you could give some

money to the homeless shelter or to the orphanage or whatever. I don't care.

Some ministry that you want to support.

And then the rest of it, I'm going to sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. Go to ramseyolutions.com.

Get someone in your corner and begin to learn about investing. Do not put money

in something you don't understand. And don't do it because I said do it. You do it because you you learn about it. you understand it. It's really not that hard to understand. You can do it and uh understand what a mutual fund is and how it works and how to pick one. Smart Vtor Pro is in order to get our Ramsey

trusted endorsement, they have to have the heart of a teacher. We will not send

you to somebody who just says do it because I said so. We want them they they want you to understand it or they don't want you to do it.

>> And so I want you to take a little time with that. There's no rush. you can just park it in a high yield savings account until you figure out the investing you want to do and and what I'm going to spend and what I'm going to give. And uh but I would pay off the debts immediately and I get on a budget immediately.

Um I don't think you're going to be an overspender, Mr. 22-year-old truck guy.

I don't think that's going to be a problem for you. Okay. >> No, no. I I don't think you're going to go like hog wild and crazy or something.

So, I think you're going to be okay. But I want you to have a plan to replace the truck and then replace the car someday.

I want you to have a plan for Christmas.

I want you to have a plan for some vacations. You deserve them. I want you to have a plan for some generosity. And I want you to have a plan for some investing out of that 7 $7,500 a month that you got to work with.

And so that's your budget. And then um but you're going to have, you know, substantial money in the next 10 years if you do this basic things right here. It's a really really good position. I'm sorry you got hurt so badly, man.

>> Yeah. And Billy, are are you going to be responsible for all these other surgeries and whatnot?

>> Uh one more. >> Yeah, that's what this other one was for. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, do you need to keep some of that liquid for these future surgeries and challenges? >> Um it's just um I'd like a 20% co-ay for

my insurance. So, um, you know, I'm estimating maybe 10,000 or so I would have be having to pay out of pocket. I I don't really know. >> That sounds right. Well, make sure you've got that allocated, too. >> Yeah. And again, it goes back to what Dave was saying. Just be intentional and have a plan. Have a plan. Have a plan.

Have a plan. And the foundation that plan is going to sit on a concrete and and and iron foundation of we don't

borrow money.

>> Right. Right.

That's that's exactly right. I agree with that. So you would put the bulk of it into mutual funds. If I would with the Smart Investor Pro, >> I would I would after everything's paid off after you have some fun and do some generosity. Yes.

>> Are those low risk?

It's not like regular stocks in the stock market or anything. >> It is the stock market, but it's as low a risk as buying a home.

>> Okay, gotcha. Okay. Okay. Well, I will um I will check for a Smart Investor Pro on the website and get started from there. >> Billy, if it makes you feel better, I use a Smart Investor Pro. And so do I. >> And that's where I put my money.

>> So do I. So yeah. So here's the thing.

Like you take a look folks at uh some of the growth in income funds or even some of the growth funds and say, "Okay, in the last 50 years, how many down years

did they have and what's the total up

and you will find it's as safe as your house. There's no guarantees. You don't have a guarantee. You don't have a guarantee. When you bought a house, they go up, they can go down. And sometimes they go down. If you the neighborhood goes away and people start misbehaving around you and that kind of stuff, the values can go down. You can have all kinds of problems, right? And um yeah,

somewhere in there is what I'm looking for. Wow, Billy, I'm sorry you went through that.

Uh-huh.

Our

scripture of the day, Philippians 2 3 and 4. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interest of others.

Jordan Peterson says, "Perhaps you are overvaluing what you don't have and undervaluing what you do have." Lex is

with us in Denver. Hey, Lex, how are you?

>> Uh, hello Dave. I'm doing well. How about yourself? >> Just the same, sir. How can I help? Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas to you as well. Um, so I

find myself in an interesting situation to where I'm discovering your channel at a time in my life um with an interesting

economic situation kind of hanging over our heads.

Uh, I've been fortunate enough to acquire some, uh, decent wealth over the

last seven years when I got out of credit card debt. And I'm looking this year to probably be right at about a million dollars in net worth. Uh, with

about 1.3 thank you with about $1.3

million in uh, debt. Um, vast majority

of it is in within the real estate. Um

but um the more I'm listening to your show, the more I'm starting to realize that I might have bought some stressors in my life with um with the ability to

get to where I was. Now I got to figure out how to maybe uh tighten up the debt.

And I was hoping you might be able to give me a few pointers on which direction to head to.

>> Okay. Sure. Well, I I love real estate

and I made a fortune like you in my 20s

in the real estate business and I lost it all because I had too much debt at that point. At the high point of that, I had a $4 million uh portfolio with uh

about $3 million worth of debt. So, I had a 75% equity or 75% loan to value

situation and I was 26 years old. So,

how old are you?

>> Um 33. About to be 34.

>> Okay. All right. and I was doing a lot of flips and so I had short-term notes and the banks called our notes and it caused us to lose everything in the next two and a half years. So, uh, and then, you know, we started this whole thing living on less than we make, being debtree and all that stuff 30 plus years ago. That was 1988 when I went bankrupt.

It's how long ago it was. And so, I've watched my friends in the real estate business. My family was in the real estate business. That's how I got into it. I love real estate and I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate today. all debt free. So, uh I've

reversed that course many times over, but it's still an interesting journey I've been on and it and I'm honored to get to talk to someone that has done as well as you have at this age. And congratulations. Very well done. So I I'm always going to go towards less debt

to no debt because I have less to no stress that way and my sustainability is

greater because uh a lot of times in the real estate business we don't perceive the risk that debt creates.

A lot of real estate people I always laugh and say their risk meter got broken. It doesn't even work anymore.

They don't even measure risk anymore. They just go, "Oh, more more more." And that's what I was doing. You yours is 50%. And so you're not as bad off as I was. You're in much better shape than I was at that time. Um, tell me about the real estate that you own. What is it?

>> Um, yes. So,

um, and I was kind of following your journey. That's kind of where I find myself too is that my next plan was to buy more and more uh, third and fourth property to try to leverage the debt to

get enough passive income to kind of buy my freedom, if you will. >> Mhm. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm glad I found your show. Uh, I have uh two properties.

One of them is a single family house that I essentially converted into um up down duplex >> and I have a forplex that are both currently cash flowing.

>> Uh, however, I'm noticing that in Denver in particular, uh, rents are starting to take a big downturn.

>> Um, really due to some of the economic stressors. Yeah. Just last week, we had a a brand new um apartment complex that

uh got foreclosed on by a bank and the investors lost $125 million cuz probably

bad management, but also bad investing, over leveraging. And so >> I'm seeing uh rents around town, especially for like luxury places, go off 20 30% off where last year they

would have been rented for upwards of $3,000. Now they have 25 2300. Mhm.

>> dollars a month. And >> so you own two properties that are worth $2 million.

>> Uh just about. Yeah. Just just under 2 million. >> Okay. And you have mortgage on each of them? >> Yes. >> Okay. What's the mortgage on the duplex?

>> On a duplex, I got it back right around COVID. So I have 2.3% rates. Uh just

right around 500. Uh value

>> as a duplex. what the cash flow is. It's probably right around 750.

>> Okay. And so the other one's worth uh 1.3 >> uh slightly less. Uh probably closer to like 1.1 or so with about 700 on it. And

then I have >> And then I have about 300 in investments between my IRA and stockings. Okay. And

stock market. Okay. And >> And what do you make? Are you what's your career? >> I'm a mechanical engineer. And so you're making 200 >> uh 125 or so.

>> Oh, okay. All right. Cool. All right.

And you're married?

>> No. >> Okay. Good for you. Okay. Cool. All right. So, there's a couple ways you can go at this. The biggest thing I want you to do is I want you to perceive that those debts equal risk. More debt equals

more risk. Less debt equals less risk.

So, point being that on the forplex you

owe um 700. If you owed 1.1 on it and

it's worth 1.1, you'd have more risk.

Agreed.

>> Because the cash flow would dry up due to the debt service >> and it's not as sustainable and you can't get out of the stupid thing because you're leveraged up to your eyeballs. In your case, you got about a 30% equity in that particular position.

The other one's about the same as a matter of fact. So, can't figure out where the million dollar net worth is.

You must have a pile of cash somewhere.

>> Uh, yes. So roughly

there's about 400 of equity on that 1.15

property, 250 on that 750 property.

>> Yeah, that's what I got. >> And I have 350 in stocks and retirement

equally. >> Okay. 300 350 in stocks.

>> Or how much in retirement? How much in stocks? >> About equal split. So about 150 in stocks and like one a little closer to 200 in IRA. >> Okay. And you continue to like both of these properties as they've got a good future.

>> Uh yes. Yes. The the forplex got really

really good cash flow and the good upside for the future too. And the um the single families got really low rates. So it overperforms the um average

inflation. >> Good. Good. Okay. I like I like all that. That's good analysis. All right.

So there's a couple of ways you can go.

One is you can just say, "All right, I'm going to systematically start clearing the debt on these two." So, I'm gonna reach over and pay that duplex off as I'm gonna throw 175 at it

today. And I'm going to reach over and get it paid off in the next couple of years. And then I'm going to take all that cash flow and I'm going to reach over and start working on the forplex and get it paid off. When it's paid off, I'm going to take this incredible cash flow because I got zero debt and I'm going to buy my next property with cash.

That's going to slow down the number of properties, but it's also going to lower the amount of hassle you have per dollar,

>> right? >> Because if you got 25 renters instead of five renters, you got a different hassle level in your life. Agreed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The idea is at some point I'm probably going to retire off my engineering or go down to working minimum just the jobs I like uh and then concentrate a little bit on real estate.

>> That's okay. Right now you're 33 and you're a mechanical engineer.

>> You know, that's what I would do. If you want to get even more radical, you would sell one of the properties and pay off the other one and then start from there and go cash on. >> And I have an allergy to risk, so that's what I would do.

>> Yeah. But I I I you know, I'm okay with you starting with a plan to say, I'm going to work my way out of this debt and every time I lower the debt balance, my I've lowered my stress life and I've lowered my probability of problems and everything else. And um if you dislike

one of the properties, I'd cash it in and throw it at the other one. But you seem to like both of them and so that does, you know, you can you could go that way. Either way is fine with me.

But no, I'm not going to go buy six more like this. That's That's a recipe for problems. A serious problems.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 121. Normal Is Broke—Don't be Normal! | October 28, 2025


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with personal finance expert and good friend Jade Warshaw. So, we're answering your questions. You can give us a call at8825-55225.

All right, starting off, we have Nick in Kansas City. Hey, Nick. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, how are you guys doing?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Uh, so I've had a life insurance, I

believe it's a whole life insurance policy that my dad had started for me in about 2008.

We've been paying about $500 a month into that policy since then. And I was

look looking at it with my representative and I only have about 150

in there, but I've had it for so long

that I don't it from the research I've

been doing, it feels like I should have been um should have never done it, but

it seems like it's mostly front-loaded.

And so I don't know if I should stay into that, pull that money out, put it into something different, and also what I could do, what kind of products I could explore now that I'm making more money than way back in 2008, what I should be putting my money into. I've kind of decided I want to start a Roth IRA for my wife and I and to start and then I have some extra money after that and I wouldn't know where to go after that. So, you said the cash value is only 150k.

>> Only 500. >> And how much did you say you've paid in?

>> 500 a month. >> Oh my gosh. Over since 2008.

>> Yes. >> Oh my word. Yeah. I mean, I'd get I almost 18 years. Yeah. I try to get out of it immediately today.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, these are it is it's one of the worst financial products honestly that's out there. I mean, when you look at whole life or universal life, it's so crappy because what you're seeing is exactly what people experience because they're trying to mix an investment with insurance and you never end up you never get ahead. You really don't. And so, versus if you had taken a

you know, um you know, just a a policy that Yeah. a term policy that's so

significantly cheaper and getting as much coverage. I mean, if you're a healthy young guy, you're you're only going to pay 2030 bucks a month. Like, it's not a lot. And if you had invested that remaining amount just in a mutual fund or in an index fund or a brokerage account, like what it would have been with the market. So, I think I'm sorry to say, Nick, that Yeah, I feel like you're experiencing the the crappy product that whole life insurance is.

>> And if you [clears throat] were to get out of it, um, is your next question.

Have you researched doing that? Because different companies, I mean, there's different holdings and fees and all of it. Have you looked at if you just went ahead and cashed it out? >> A little bit.

>> Yeah, a little bit. I have. And I it I'll be honest. That's why I've called you guys because I am so confused about the penalties, the I I just I'm I'm so confused.

I feel like I've made a lot of good decisions in my life, but this was one horrible one. >> Yeah, I would call them today. I mean, obviously you you would you're going to lose the death benefit like because you're canceling the policy, but some of that cash value should end up rolling to you minus fees. Um, so I would call and find out exactly what that is and then once you feel good about the information, yeah, just cancel it because it's not serving you.

>> It would have been closer to $300,000.

So, I think we both agree that that wasn't the best way to invest that money. And then if you're looking for

coverage, Yeah. then just go to term coverage. >> Yeah. I would contact Xander, Nick, Xander Insurance, because they'll shop their mortgage. They basically shop companies to get you the lowest rate for a term life. And I would go ahead and do that. I would do a term life before you cancel the whole life just because you have a wife. Do you have kids?

>> Yeah, I have two kids. >> Yeah. So, I would make sure before you cancel the whole life policy, get a term in place. Again, it's going to be very inexpensive.

You and your wife both need a policy >> and um yep, do that. Then cancel the whole life. And once you get that cash out, like what Jade's saying is then you can start applying it actually to invest that's actually going to make you money.

life insurance? What was the intent? was >> the intent. Well, my dad did it with one

of his uh friends and he was pay he's

been paying for it for most of this time. I didn't I worked for him for my father, but I didn't actually uh I mean, I wasn't making a lot of money until maybe 2017.

And since then it's been everything's been great, but it the insurance was

just to make sure that after I was married and that all anything that I had

debt-wise was going to be paid off.

>> Yeah. So that's that's a good word to the wise. Um when you're purchasing insurance, it should just be that. It doesn't have to be married with any other sort of investment thing.

Insurance is insurance. Investments are investments. They're separate uh deals there. And so just knowing that going forward, I mean, it's a really good call and a really good question because I think people get caught up in whole life all the time. >> Yeah. So the next step, Nick, when we're talking about investing, do you guys have an emergency fund in place?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So >> probably too much. >> Probably too much is what you said. You're just covered, Nick. You're just covered. Covered all all the way around. >> I've done, like I said, I've done I've made a lot of good decisions in my life.

>> Sure. >> But this my retirement is not one of them. >> Okay. So then we let's be looking at that next. >> Yes. So the Roth IRA you mentioned. Yes, absolutely. And your wife, even if she's not working, she can open up a spousal >> uh Roth IRA. So I would do those two as well. I think the limit this year if you get it all in place is 8,000.

>> Um and it may sometimes it changes year to year, but you can yeah fully fund that if you can. I mean for this year, which would be amazing. >> Um and then be looking into do you have a 401k at work?

>> My wife has a 401k. Okay.

>> I do not. >> You do not. Okay. Perfect. So, just as a as a household, you know, you want to be investing 15% of your income. So, I would do those Roths first. Then your wife needs to be looking at her 401k and go go ahead and go up to the match as well, which you guys can do both. Yep.

That's great. And then anything beyond that, you guys can continue to throw money at her 401k [snorts] if it's a Roth. That's a great option.

And then some people, you know, want flexibility outside of retirement. Um, so you could look into other options like, you know, an index fund, a brokerage account, a mutual fund, but all of those again, they're not going to have the tax advantage like retirement.

So, we would say 15% of your income needs to be going straight into retirement. So, that is 401ks, Roth IAS, and then anything above that once you guys pay off your house and everything, um, you can look into into some other options, which I feel like you guys I mean, like you said, you're smart. I mean, you guys have made some great decisions so far. It's just this whole life policy sucks and I feel like you're feeling the >> repercussions of that.

>> Okay, >> awesome. Well, thanks for the call, Nick. I appreciate it. So, yeah, you guys, if you if you're looking at life insurance, again, term life is the way to go.

It's so inexpensive. Winston and I just upped ours again. I think it was probably three years ago >> and we had someone come to the house because you got to do all your health stuff, you know, to prove all your health. >> Um, and yeah, and we get it back.

I'm like, oh my gosh. Cuz we even upped the amount. We went ahead and upped the amount of what we were and it was so inexpensive.

Yeah, it's not bad. >> Yeah. So, if you're able to do that, you guys, so worth it. And again, Xander Insurance is a great place. It's the place Winston and I use to shop our health insurance. Uh because they shop multiple companies. It's not just looking at one company. They're looking all all over to get you the best rate possible. [music] Um so, yep. So, Nick, that's what I would do for your family and anyone else listening.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music] It's official. The Ramsay Christmas cash giveaway is here. So each

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>> All right, let's go to Matthew in Dayton. Hi, Matthew. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. My question is, is it worth taking out a car loan to avoid being in a never-ending loop of cheap cars and insurance payouts? And I can give some backstory on this if you'd like. Sure.

>> Yeah. So, um I just got married 22 days ago. Uh congratulations. My wife has had her Thank you.

>> My wife's first car she had for three years and it got totaled at the end of the summer and got we got $5,000 payout for it. >> When you say it got totaled, did she hit somebody or somebody hit her?

>> Um she avoided being in a pileup. And by avoiding being in a pileup, she went into a ditch and the ditch broke some broke the frame. Um, so better the car than her. >> Yeah, for real. >> So that got totaled and we bought her dad's car for for the same price of the insurance payout >> because she was on her parents insurance at the time. So like $5,000 for her dad's car. >> And then this past week, actually, um,

last Tuesday, we came home and a tree was on top of her car that she just bought in August from her parents.

>> And now that car is being totaled for around $5,000.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, I guess um >> Okay. So, it's not crappy cars breaking down, Matthew. You could have wrecked it. She could have gone into a ditch in a nice car. A tree could have fallen on a nice car, right? Bad luck.

>> It's not the It's not the car's fault.

You're not saying that the transmissions keep breaking and you're paying more than the car's worth in fixing it.

>> Mhm. >> So, so no. So, your argument Well, keep going. Do you have a better argument? >> I [laughter] don't think so. Vegas cuz with insurance they're just these cars are so these cars the first car was over 10 years old and this car now we just got told is 10 years old. So insurance isn't going to >> pay to fix body damage or anything like that. >> They're going to give you what it's worth. >> What it's worth. Yeah.

>> Right. So I just um if I just buy another car for the same cash value what it's worth, that's going to put me another spot of if that car gets in an accident or something happens, I'm just going to be in another >> Right. But nothing was wrong with the car to be nothing was wrong with the car to begin with. >> She's staying lateral, which is fine.

>> You didn't call in saying, "Hey, I've had these $5,000 cars and they're just breaking down left and right." You called saying she avoided a pileup. A tree fell. Lightning could hit the next car tomorrow and then they'd pay you out another 5,000. The car is still not the issue. Um, I think the issue is you just want a nicer car and you're hoping that this can give you an excuse to get one.

>> Okay. I haven't thought about it from that perspective. >> I have [laughter] I think that's what you want. I mean, can you tell me other anything other than kind of like these bad luck situations?

I mean, >> like I feel like the argument would be >> the argument would be would be much more convincing, Matthew, even though you could you can't convince us to take out a car payment because what you're going to spend on a new on a car, the interest and all of it is not it's not a good investment.

Almost everyone agrees that a car payment is the worst type of debt you could probably get into because you're paying interest and you're paying more on something that's going down in value.

>> And so that makes no sense versus a house, right? You go and you pay interest on a mortgage. Well, at least for the most part, houses are going up in value slowly, fast, I mean all of it.

But over time, a car goes down. Like people call this show when they're like, "Hey, I went and got a car payment >> for $26,000 and now it's worth 20,000."

I mean, almost all the time people are underwater in cars and so that's because they buy too much car. They buy a car they can't afford and it goes down in value and they can't take the financial hit. They don't have the money to to be able to even, you know, um, absorb that.

That's right. So, so you'll get this next $5,000 payout and you'll go get

another $5,000 car. Now, if you had some extra cash you wanted to put with that and you know you're out of baby step two, I'm not mad at that. What baby step are you on?

>> Um, I'm not sure exact. We have about a thousand. I haven't looked at exactly for baby steps. We have about a thousand in emergency fund. >> Okay, good. >> But we just we just we're paying off our wedding and our honeymoon. We have about 2,000 left on a credit card.

>> Okay. >> Okay. How much is the wedding and honeymoon pay off?

Um, we have about 2,000 left paid. It was probably about a $40,000 wedding and

about $6,000 honeymoon.

>> Okay. But you only have 2,000 left to go. >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. So, we would call that baby step, too. So, in the in the land of baby steps, there's seven of them. The first one you have, which is to have $1,000 saved just between you and life.

And then the second one, yeah, you pay off the debt, smallest to largest. It sounds like you're doing that. And, uh, how quickly can you get this $2,000 paid off? Ideally within the next month.

>> Okay, great. And then after that time of putting paychecks in because we're living within our means and >> good saving money where we need.

>> Any any student loans or anything, Matthew? Any other debt?

>> Yeah, she has about 9,000 in student loans that we >> that >> they were in her junk folder and the mailings of mispayments were going to her old house. And that was a whole whole thing of >> she forgot about the loan and she needed it was quick and she needed to stay in school. >> Is there anything else besides the 9,000?

>> No, but that's it.

>> So everything but the house.

>> How much are you guys making total together, Matthew? You and your wife?

>> 70 takehome.

>> Wonderful. Okay. >> Combined. >> Yeah, that's great. How old are you guys? >> Cuz this she's 23. I'm 22. Okay. So, she

turns 24 here in two months.

>> Okay. >> And I'm just kind of calling in as a as a husband of like, well, we've already had to do >> car searches the last two months and have to deal with all of that.

>> My my main thought was if I take a $5,000 loan or something like that, >> it's not going to change what happened.

>> You're still going to have to do car car research if another tree falls on the car. >> If you bought a $50,000 car in cash today, if a tree falls on it, you're still going to have to replace it >> and they're still going to give you the value of the car. So, I I want you to let go of that. I want you to let that out of your kung fu grip because for some reason you think that getting a more expensive car is the tree is going to be like, "Hold on." [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> We can't fall on a Mercedes. >> It's a It's a Suburban.

>> It's like those commercials. Mayhem.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Mayhem follows you no matter what, my guy. >> I know. [laughter] I know it. Yeah. So, Matthew, I mean, you guys you guys are doing great. I mean, you really are. And I just want you to shift that mindset. If if you start to entertain debt, >> then it is the easiest road to go down because there are people and companies that are wide open willing to accept you and make you feel great and justify

anyway to get you in because they're going to be making so much money off of you. That is the industry. Okay? That is the industry, right?

And so when you can avoid that and you guys are so young and I'm so I'm like please if you can just avoid that you guys together and you make a pact and say we are not going into debt so we're gonna pay cash for our cars. If we have to go on an anniversary trip next year we're going to save up and pay for it. Like >> when you can avoid it and you guys are making 70 grand and you get out of debt and all like you guys are on the positive end then financially.

So don't continue to have these thoughts of debt because it just constantly will financially take you more in the negative and it takes away from your net worth. It takes away um peace of mind and all of it.

implore you to consider just living living debtree and it's not exciting.

The ego is not going to love it. We don't love the $5,000 car. It doesn't make you feel great. It doesn't make you feel successful. Yes. But for a season.

That's for a season. And then you guys can save up cash. Sell the $5,000 car for $5,000 because it's probably what it's still going to be worth. >> That's right. >> Put it with another five and that's a $10,000 car. And then you do it again and again and again until you guys are Yeah. at cars that you love but you're paying cash for them and it's going to be a slower process but man so worth it.

>> Gotcha. I needed to hear this cuz >> cuz I've grew up in a family where you didn't buy car. We only bought cars for cash and that's the same way with herbs and we were just kind of in a pickle of like do we just keep doing this?

>> Yes. Yes, you do. >> I needed to hear that. >> For sure. Yeah. Your parents have set up some great examples. Both of you come from a very similar background and so stick with it. That's why we always say, you know, normal is broke and common sense is weird when we open the show because that's what's happening. [music] So live within your means, Matthew. If you don't have the money, don't buy it.

Don't be under that impression that if I can afford the payment, I can afford it.

No, [music] you have to be able to pay for things in cash.

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Exclusions apply.

in Atlanta, Georgia. We have Joel coming up next. Hi, Joel.

>> Hey there. Thank you for having me. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Hey, so me and my wife uh have a new six-month old daughter and congratulations.

Thank you so much. We're about $287,000

in student loan debt. Um, and I'm trying to figure out the best um way to tackle this. So, we have the emergency fund, but we recently had a car repair and that zipped that out pretty quick. And so, I'm guess I'm asking, are there times in which the emergency fund should be bigger before you start hammering those student loans?

And then I guess the secondary question is I'm looking at the, you know, income based repayment compared to these large amounts that we're paying on student loans each month. I just kind of uh need a little bit of guidance here. We're trying to decide. >> What did you get?

>> Um my wife is a nurse practitioner, pediatrics, >> and she went to Emory, so you know, >> and um I'm a a film and video editor and my student loans are only about 30,000.

Hers are about 250. Hey, how much is she making a year >> right now? Since she just graduated in December, um she's making about 70 and I am also making about 70. We're making about the same amount right now. >> Okay. >> And she just had a baby >> and she has Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's uh

>> is she is she going to be going back to work making more than 70? Like is that her plan?

>> Yes. So she has started back to work already and that's kind of where she is at now. Hopefully over the next few years obviously that increases as she can take on more patients. Um but that's kind of we're trying to operate with what we have now and trying to look forward to the future. You know how do we how do we prepare for possible other cars and all that sort of thing.

>> You're not doing any kind of investing right now. Are you?

>> Um I do have a 401k at work that I've been um that I stopped contributing to last year while we were moving having the baby and all those things early this year and then I started again. Um, >> so I think you need to pause that because right now if if what you say is true and you're interested and serious about paying off this debt, then that means you need every piece of money that you can get your hands on. And that includes right now, just for the time being, pausing that investing. And trust

me, you'll get to it later. Uh, I'm like you. My husband and I had $280,000 in student loans and we paused investing and it was just a short period of time, but it really does give you the ammunition you need to knock out the debt a lot faster. Um, how much when you

guys get your, you know, your check, that net amount, how much is it every month? Um we bring in about 8,000 total like

among both of us each month and most of that goes out with uh bills daycare because you know she we're both working right >> and then also the student loan debt uh or the student loan payments on hers were about 3,000 a month and I was like you know for the 10-year plan so I took it back down to the 25-year plan that gives us a little bit more breathing room >> fine >>

but once again not enough to save for a car and all the things you know >> so I'm not mad at I'm not mad at you taking advantage of uh taking it down to the 25-year plan to to lower the payments on all of them, but only with

this caveat if you take all of the extra money that it saves you and put it on the smallest debt. So, do you have any debt besides the student loans?

>> No, that's our only debt.

>> And the student loans, I'm guessing, are broken up into smaller student loans.

It's not just one big one for >> Right. Exactly. So, if you make it, if you do the plan, that's the 25-year plan, and let's say it drops it down to what's the payment now from 3,000 down to >> $1,900. >> Okay? 1,900. Now, you can take that extra $1,100 and you can throw it at the smallest student loan at the principal.

Do you see what I'm saying? So, it's giving you more firepower to knock that smallest one out first so it's not getting eaten away with interest. Does that make sense?

>> Yes, absolutely. But should we take a few months first uh to save up a little bit bigger emergency fund? >> How much do you have in your emergency fund now? How much is in there now?

>> Well, it was it was at 1100 this morning, but I had to get a a repair on one of our cars and now it's at like 400. So, >> okay. So, stack it back up to a,000. We found over the course of 25 years, 30

years doing this plan that $1,000 is the sweet spot. It's just enough that if something breaks down with the car, right, Rachel, you can pop in there and get it fixed. But it's also it's not so much that it's taking away from the momentum of you paying off the debt. It might feel like not a lot, but you know, your wife's already had the baby, the baby's healthy, you guys are home, childcare is paid for it.

Like, you can take that that moment and exhale and say, "Okay, like the the risk or the danger is over. $1,000 is good." And then, yeah, if you clip uh $1,900, if you clip that other $1,100 at that student loan, uh you're going to pay it off a lot sooner. And think about how much more you can add to it.

Probably now is not the time for your wife to do overtime with a baby, but >> getting that number up as high as you can because ultimately you guys are the going to be the ones that say, "Okay, if we do it at a rate of $1,100 a month extra, here's how long it's going to take. We're not satisfied with that. So, let's see if we can get it up to $2,200 a month extra. Are we satisfied with that?" Do you see what I'm saying?

And reverse engineer that number to get it where you want it to be. >> Yeah. And Joel, I mean, this is it's a lot. I mean, $300,000 of debt.

Like, it this is going to be a long game for you guys, right? I mean, this is a this is a long journey.

where the upward trajectory >> is massive. Like, I feel like I'm like in that medical field.

>> I would be depending on her in a sense of like because I mean there you can do extra work 100%. And I would I would be I would be taking on extra but >> and I am I freelance that brings like 600 a month.

>> That's awesome. Yes. So for her long-term and when I say longterm I'm saying five to eight years I'm going to be making as much as I can. I mean because to your point I mean she went $250,000 in debt for this degree. And so

and so the upward trajectory of her having a bigger shovel over time is probably going to be more possible. Um >> and that's what's I mean and I'll just be frank with you too, Joel. Like I mean Jade and I are both moms so I'm like that feeling especially your first. Is it your first?

>> Yes.

>> I mean it's just I mean I I think I cried every day [laughter] going in for a little bit like more in the past six months. It's very so emotional and it's so exhausting and and this is not to like pick on you guys, but it's just another example, a real life example literally of you, Joel, in Atlanta with your wife and what debt is freaking doing where if you know in a perfect world, if there was no student loans and we had an 18-year-old girl call in cuz she wanted to go to a private school in Minneapolis that was going to cost like $250,000 to get an undergrad degree and we were like, "Don't do it.

And if and if your wife wants to stay home, it's like it sucks. Now, could you guys choose that? Absolutely. And then it'll take you maybe >> a lot longer, [laughter] >> a lot longer to get out of debt.

But what sucks is that like the debts that she that you know that the student loans are in was in a field and out of school that was very expensive. And again, hopefully she has the opportunity to be making more. Um I mean, that that's the goal, right?

>> Um >> Right. Exactly. >> But it just sucks. You know what I mean? Because there's not it it limits options on what you guys want to do in life. So again, that's not to pick on you. It's just another example of what debt does.

It takes your freedom and it takes your options and it sucks.

>> So So would you So even with a baby, 1,000 you would say is a good round number. I think it's just as a father, you know, it's like I'm I'm a little terrified that we're not >> what you're saying makes sense. I like logically I hear what you're saying, but think about it like this. Let's pretend, let's imagine the [clears throat] the worst thing that could take place, which would be uh like the worst emergency.

I don't know, something with your roof, maybe. >> Right. >> Right. And let's pretend that cost $3,000 to fix.

Well, you've got your emergency fund, but then you've got your actual income. And remember, you're putting an extra. You're paying extra on your debt every month. So, if you said if I have my emergency fund and I stop the extra that I'm paying on my debt for that month just to cover whatever crazy thing could possibly happen and if I pulled back, you know, the purse strings a little bit more and tightened up a little more, I could probably find another $500 $600.

So, you see that there's actually money there. You're just not >> you're taking it out of the mix in order to pay debt, >> but it's there if you were to need it. >> That's a really good point. You see what I'm saying?

Thank you for that. So, you're supposed to stay far away from the IBR and the IDR though, right? Um, the IDR, like I said, the IDR doesn't bother me, especially if you were moving it from the 10-year plan to the 25. That doesn't bother me, but only with the caveat that you're going to use the extra money to pay off the debt.

If you use that money to go out to eat and just inflate your lifestyle, then you are only playing yourself. And I can't stress that enough. >> No, it's a great point. Yeah.

And I think, you know, with a lot of things too, whether even it's medical bills or that kind of thing, you usually have a month or two to be able to, you know what I mean, to pay. So, so sometimes it's not like an immediate expense.

This moment we have to. >> Sometimes you have a little bit of time to your point um that you can get that cash back, but but I get it, Joel. I I know that like mama bear mentality of like I just want to be smart, keep everyone safe and all the things is so good. So true. But that $1,000 that emergency fund stays [music] true no matter what.

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Next up, we have [music] Michael in Boston. Hi, Michael. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. How are you today? We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Doing well. So, I have a question for you. I was just informed a few weeks ago that I'll be getting laid off at the end of the year. My wife and I have Yeah,

it's all good. My wife and I have have about $100,000 in cash right now and just trying to figure out what I should do with that in these uncertain times.

>> Okay. Um, what do you do, Michael?

Um, I worked for a large corporation

in in product management.

>> What were you making?

>> I was making 160,000 plus a 20% bonus.

>> Okay. And does your wife work at all?

>> She does. Yes. And what did she make?

110. She makes $110,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how quickly do you think you can find a new job? Is this something you can start looking for like this week? Yeah, I mean a job and a good job are different things, but I will, you know, um, you know, I did get a decent severance package that can really carry hold me over almost for a whole year.

>> How much was that? >> So, uh, so I have my full salary through

the end of October of next year.

>> Oh, good. And that's not including the one the $100,000 you guys have saved.

>> Correct. Okay, that's really good.

>> That is nice. you're in a I I mean I want to encourage you that you're in a really good position with the severance and with the cash sitting there and the fact that your wife also works. Um I want to caution you though because I don't want that to be a reason to um not

be motivated to really go out there and get a job that was just as good as the other replace income and possibly make more money. I mean what's to stop you from making more uh going into the next season with all of the you know experience that you have in that field?

>> Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And that's that's that's one of the goals for sure if opportunities available.

>> So, if I were you, I would be looking tonight um at your budget. Do you guys have a budget?

>> Uh we we have a loose budget definitely, you know, inclusive of the mortgage, um one small car loan, and just other monthly bills. So, what I would do, we'll give you every dollar before you get off the phone tonight, but I want you and your wife to sit down tonight and really plug in all of the numbers because if you can, my goal would be to touch as little of your saved money as possible. Do you guys have like kids at home or what's who all is at home?

>> We we do. We have three kids, uh, 14,

11, and six years old.

>> Okay. So, I would the I would want the goal to be we're gonna touch as little as of this 100,000 as possible. So, in order to figure out what that is, you've got to set a budget for 110 and see,

okay, monthly if we set our budget for whatever wife brings home >> and he'll be getting a severance, too. >> And you'll be getting your severance, too. So, Oh, that's true. Um, >> so not much true. Not much should change. >> Yeah, I would be paying your debt. How much How much you guys have left on your car?

>> Um, we have it's a 2025

and we have about a little less than $10,000 left on that.

>> Okay. Well, I would pay that off tonight. >> That's true. Yep.

>> Uh what other debt do you guys have?

>> That's a four four That's a 4% interest rate. >> I don't care. >> Um the only other Okay. Uh the only

other debt that we have is our is our mortgage. >> Perfect. Okay. So, >> great. >> Yeah. So, what you So, the baby steps, Michael, is the seven steps that we walk people through. So, technically, I think you guys are on baby step four because you guys will be debtree by tonight, correct? because you're going tohead just pay off that car and then your that

that'll be a $90,000 sitting in savings and I would figure out your monthly expenses what you guys you know what you

have and I would go ahead and get a six-month emergency fund just because you got three kids the job thing is kind of in the air six months is plenty because you're still getting paid I mean you're still going to get a salary so I take that whatever that six months is for you um I'm making this up my so just

say it's like I don't know 10,000 so say it's 60,000 you'll 30,000 left and then

with that 30,000 I mean honestly I don't think I would be motivated to feel like I have to keep any more because of a job loss because you're you're suff you're getting paid the same. So it's almost like you haven't lost a job >> technically, right? Because you're still getting a paycheck. So you guys are still living your life.

>> Um is the severance at all tied to if you get new employment anywhere? Like will that stop at all or will you get that plus if you get a new job?

I would get that plus if I get a new job as long as it's not with the same company obviously. >> Okay, that's great. >> Which is awesome. Yeah.

And then I would be funding 15% of your income into retirement and I would count the severance as income, you know? I mean, I would still say, >> um, so I honestly would just I would keep going and then I would put extra on the house. I mean, I would just go through the baby steps. I don't think I would be that alarmed.

>> When I when I first heard you were being laid off, honestly, in my head, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, if you have no savings, you're down to one income." Then there's a lot of shifting that has to take place. That's usually people's situation, but you're getting a nice severance. You guys are going to be debtree. You have a fully funded emergency fund.

So, not much really has to change. Michael, >> I don't feel that urgency.

>> No. I mean, the only thing I'm thinking is you've got to find another job that's going to replace your income and you've got to be on it. That's it, you know.

>> Got it. So would you would you guys take that other 30,000 and put it >> I would probably put it brokerage account like into an S S&T 500 fund or something along those lines or should I just keep the cap? That's where my big decision is right now. >> Okay. So I I almost would do option C, Michael, because if you're funding 15% of your income into retirement, the next step beyond any other investing is to

pay off the house. So I almost would be tempted. How much do you guys have left on your mortgage?

uh 260,000.

>> Okay. Um >> it's a it's a 2.8 it's a 2.85 rate.

>> Okay. Yes. Again the interest rates don't really apply to what we talk when we talk about math it is so behavior change finding peace. Dr. John Deloneyi

one of our other hosts he always says we're solving for peace. And we find when people are completely debtree that is one of the most peaceful places you can be financially versus high stress high financial stress with trying to pay bills and keep up with everything. So, you can do what you want with that 30,000, Michael, that's left. Um, you if

you if you want to open up a brokerage account or something, yes, that is not going to that's not going to hurt. But the next step technically would be to throw anything extra at the house. But, um, but because there is this, you know, again, kind of weird thing with the layoff, if you want to feel extra safe, you can. But I don't feel like you have to have extra padding. You know, when you have a six-month emergency fund and you're still getting paid. >> Yeah, you're still getting paid. Yeah.

There's part of me that might wait until

the it's a storm. It's not the stormiest of storms because of the money. There's part of me that might wait until you land that next job. And then if you do, I mean, what a blessing because you'd be getting the severance plus to pay from your new job.

Then you'd have something to do with this 30,000. Like, you could really do some major damage on your mortgage at that point as far as paying it off.

Awesome.

All right. Well, um, you know, I appreciate I appreciate the advice and y, you know, hopefully good good luck moving forward here. >> Absolutely, Michael. Well, I'm sorry about the job loss, but I'm I'm thankful you guys are in the position you are. You guys have done a great job saving and Yeah. And again, that severance is

so helpful. >> Rachel, let's just take a moment and talk about it because I could tell you're getting um frustrated, not frustrated, but like >> the interest rate, >> the interest rate and and let's talk about that because people get so hung up on I've got this debt, but the interest rate is good. So therefore somewhere in their mind they think they can just string it along because is that 2.2%.

You know that it's not a big deal. It is a big deal. Debt is risk no matter how you slice it. If you are tied to debt that means you have risk associated with your life.

And even if the interest rate is lower, it's actually in many ways more dangerous because you're more uh likely to leave it around and keep it in your life for longer. So just remember guys. >> Yes. And that is debt.

And that is the hard thing because I think, you know, even the question with paying off the house, you know, people, right, you know, they have $60,000 left in the mortgage and they have 70,000 in in non-retirement investments and they're like, "Wait, you want me to just pay off my house?" But I'm making >> up to like 20% this last year, you know, and my mortgage is the old interest rate of 3%. Like I could be making a 17% spread. And so the calculations come into place.

We get that. Totally get that. That makes sense mathematically. But what is never calculated again is the emotions

around money, which is what what Chad's Yeah. Uh the emotions around money, the stress around money, the peace that you have around it. And so um so we can play

the math game all day long, but that's even one reason we talk about you pay off the smallest debt first, not the highest interest rate. Like it's not a math problem. Majority of personal finance is your behavior. It's not the head knowledge. It's not the Excel sheets. It's not trying to form the interest rate. that's what's best for you and it's not that bad.

>> Debt is debt. So to your point, the borrower is slave to the lender when it says in Proverbs. So um there's something freeing about being debtree, [music] you guys. So um yeah, again, Michael, he has a great head start. I'm Yeah, I'm excited for him. I think a new change, good [music] season, and they were wise. So it's not a crisis. This is just an inconvenience.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting today with Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at88255225.

Up first, we have Jeff in Minneapolis.

Hi, Jeff. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, good afternoon.

>> Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so my family and I were in the process of getting ready to purchase a uh a home for ourselves. This will be the third home that we've owned. We sold our previous house back in June um when we re relocated for a job change.

And uh I'm feeling that we're sitting pretty good financially with what we have invested and in retirement and trying to identify the right uh level of

home that our budget can support while still >> letting ourselves be comfortable financially but also feeling that going into our third home that we maybe don't need to settle on every single item at this point of our life as well.

>> Good. So what are you thinking about spending?

Well, right now we're considering a property that would be around the 550 to 600 range. >> Okay. >> And um I didn't ever think I would end up in a home of that size, but with real estate being, you know, somewhat inflated right now, that's kind of what we're looking and needing to be in to check all the boxes that we're looking for housewise.

Yeah, depending on what we put down for a down payment, we'd be tracking right about the right about the 25% mark.

>> What do you have saved in cash?

>> So, we've got a we're sitting on 310 in cash right now. Now, that includes uh that includes a bunch of money from the sale of our home in the summer. About 50 of that is what I've considered to be our emergency fund. Okay.

>> You know, the rest of that would go into the home purchase. So, about about 250.

>> Okay. Good for you, Jeff. Well done. Is there anything standing in the way? Do you have any other debt or

>> Well, we're sitting pretty good otherwise. We've got a small car loan, $5,000 on that. Um, that's the only

other debt that we have. We're free of credit card debt, free of education debt. >> Good. >> Yeah. None. None of that. We're >> we got a young family at home. Our >> What's the problem? >> Young family at home. So, we're we're trying to, you know, provide some flexibility to, you know, have life change if needed there, whether it's education or So, what do you need from what do you need from us? What made you call in? What's your biggest question?

>> Well, as we've been looking at this home purchase is just uh you know what we

think about is is that really the best way to deploy that money? Should that money go into a home purchase or should it be you know further invested or set aside for a child's education? Is it the is it the right move to put that much money into a home right now? >> Well, you said yourself you said you're sitting pretty with your investments.

You said you're you know everything seems to be on track. So, if you did, let's let's just play it out. If you did purchase this house, like you're saying, it would meet the criteria that we say is kind of a safe place to buy a house and still have enough margin to do the things that you've mentioned, which is save up for kids, college, be able to put a little bit extra on the house. You'd still have that money in order to do that.

Whereas, if you didn't purchase this house, let's pretend you didn't purchase this house. Uh, let's pretend that you What would you do? Take this money and invest it?

drop some in the market, beef up a 529.

>> Okay. And then how long would you rent?

>> Well, we Yeah, we we need to get into a long-term home as soon as we can just for everybody's comfort. But um but >> you're saying just maybe a smaller home, something not >> Yeah, maybe maybe it's a 400 $400,000 home and our monthly, you know, our monthly payment is closer to 1,200 instead of instead of 2400.

>> Would it suit your needs if you did that or would you feel like you were sacrificing?

I would feel like we were sacrificing.

>> Yeah. And how old are the kids?

>> Uh two and a half right now.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys make a year?

>> I'm at one I'm at 93 and my spouse is at my wife's at 57.

>> Okay. >> I mean, >> and did you did you both How did you guys grow up with money, Jeff? Did you Because you said we I wouldn't imagine ever buying a home.

>> Yeah. So this expensive my wife my Yeah.

My wife grew up from pretty, you know, pretty limited means, you know, larger larger family and they they they made it work. But, you know, she definitely comes from a >> um, you know, a different background than than I do. When I was growing up, we as a family didn't ever have to >> worry about money. My parents always made smart decisions with it.

And >> who's more hesitant about the house purchase, you or her, >> right? Approval approach to life. Um, I would say she's a little more hesitant than I am, >> which makes total sense. And you know, sometimes money's weird because you guys have been really successful, Jeff.

I mean, you guys make six figures. I'm going to say you have no debt cuz I think you're going to pay that car off tonight is what I want you to do with some of this money. >> You know, you're debtree. You have a fully funded emergency fund.

You have a massive down payment. Uh you have little kids.

successful. And I think sometimes if we

come from a family where there was a little bit more scarcity, you had to watch things more caution around it.

It's almost like her emotions haven't caught up with the reality of what she's living. And I think that's really normal. I think a lot of people we get calls sometimes people and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I we can spend this on vacation, but is that crazy?" Like they can't emotionally digest like where they

really are at, you know, realistically.

And so, um, so I could I totally see where she's coming from and I get that.

But also, our emotions can't be our driver of decisions always cuz they sometimes don't make sense. Like they're not logical always, you know? And when you look at the numbers, >> Yeah. >> you guys are not out of control at all.

>> That's a good time when the numbers do help you. Like looking at the numbers, I mean, the same thing happened to us. Uh, the other night, Jeff, my husband had said there was a line item on our budget. He was like, "Man, I just think that's too expensive." And I had to look at him and say, "In relative to what?" Like relative to what?

And sometimes running out those numbers and running out the actual percentage of your income is so helpful because it helps you it helps your emotions align with where you are now and go, "Oh my gosh, this is this is so true." And then just take some time and marinate in that. High-five each other and be like, "Man, we really we really did it. Good for us. We can afford things that we once thought were out of reach." And I think it's so important to mark those times uh both mentally and emotionally because they are wins.

And it's so easy to go through life and not celebrate your wins. >> That's so good.

>> Um >> that's good. That's good advice. Yeah, I appreciate that. >> Yeah. Do you guys do you all have a specific house that you that you guys have looked at and you're thinking about putting putting a down payment on? Like is there a specific one that she can like picture and see or is it just that's the price range and you guys are going to start looking?

>> No. Yeah, we've been we've been in the market for a while. have had several offers that have not gone through on different properties which has kind of caused us to escalate what we're looking to spend. You know, at one point we weren't going to go above 450 and now we're >> knocking on the door of 550 for a specific property. So that's what gives us some apprehension as well. We've shifted away shifted away from our original conservative [clears throat] plan and we've always been conservative in all other financial decisions.

>> Totally. I hear you. I hear you. Yeah.

That's when those guardrails really help though. uh what we said before, the 25% rule. That's when that's kind of like your true north of we may have started out one way, but this is truly the the line in the sand. We know no matter what we choose, we're not crossing that. And I think for you guys, like you said, if you do the plan the way you said, you're not going to you're not going to cross that line. And I think that's that's good for you to remember.

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>> Okay. Today's question comes from Jamie in Iowa. Uh they say, "I'm struggling to pay off debt. Not because I can't afford to, but because it's hard for me to let go of the cash that's in the bank. I have close to 80,000 in car loans and a

$450,000 mortgage. I have liquid cash of

300,000 and a brokerage account with a h

100,000 in it. I know it makes no sense to keep the debt, but I have a hard time not seeing all of the cash available.

How do I overcome this mentally? Oh man.

So, this is crazy because yeah, if you

were to clear out the 300,000 of liquid

cash or at least, you know, take it down to 3 to 6 months and then take the 100,000 out of the brokerage, you could almost pay off everything, including the mortgage. Almost. You'd get pretty close, but for sure you'd clear the 80,000 in car loans and get rid of most of the mortgage. I have a sense, Jamie, that this is some sort of like fear of

the unknown. I think you know whenever people cling on to savings it's usually either one of two things. It's kind of like that scarcity mentality that we talked about earlier which is maybe the way you came up something caused you to be like when I have money I have to keep it. Whether you grew up super duper poor or you were in some sort of a relationship where you couldn't get what you needed or you had a scary time where you lost a job and your family suffered and you had to go on food stamps.

Whatever that was, something affected you to the point that yeah, you feel like you have to cling to money. Or maybe it was none of that. Maybe you just feel like you're doing super duper well and you just love the feeling of looking over in that account and seeing that money and just the idea of what it would feel like when it's gone.

>> And I think that that's so Rachel, we we talked about this earlier today. So much of what we teach is a big question mark

to people because people are calling us.

Most people have been in debt their entire life. Most people have never felt what it feels like to have paid off mortgage. Most people have never felt what it feels like to have, you know, in her case, $300,000 in savings. And so so

much of this is a question mark that when we ask people to shift into the unknown, they're like clutching their pearls like, "Well, what's it going to feel like? What's going to happen? What if? What if? What if? What if?" and all these whatifs come and I get it. It can

be overwhelming. But in this case, you almost have to ask yourself, well, what if I don't do this? What what's the repercussion on the other end? Let's talk about that.

Because if you keep this $80,000 in car loans around, all you're going to end up doing is, you know, draining, milking yourself with interest. That's ridiculous. Why do that? Same thing with the mortgage.

I mean, an amortization schedule is there for a reason. It's explaining how much the interest is costing you year-over-year and how much is going to the principal. So, you can see on paper that the longer you keep that debt around, the more you're paying in interest.

feel like to be free? >> Yeah. And it is so interesting that people we always talk about change is so hard >> and even if you're doing something that you know is kind of stupid like what she's even saying. I mean, she's even saying she's like, >> "But it but it feels comfortable because I know even though even though what I'm doing is wrong, at least I know how it feels and I can at least stay in there." So, there is a level of change in life that's hard.

And that's if you're changing something relationally, if you're changing your, you know, physically or your health, like >> it it causes something to be stretched within you.

They are free. That's it. And if you want to get back into debt, you can always get back into debt. Like there's a whole industry waiting for you.

Like, right, >> if you hate it, you can get right back in and, you know, take a personal loan and put money back. I mean, whatever you want to figure out, >> you can put it back if you want to. >> Yes. But there's something about owning your life.

And when you pay things off and you build back up that savings, it's all yours. That that car is yours. um you know that savings that you build back up is yours. And so it is it's a it's kind of a different approach.

it's kind of a myth that you're safer with the cash. Yeah. >> Because you have you have risk like the cash like if something were to happen and you have to drain your cash >> for some reason, >> you still have a payment. Like >> you still have payments. >> Yes. And the ma let's just if you want to take it completely mathematically the feeling of if you tell me hey I have

300,000 in a brokerage and h 100,000 or

no I'm sorry 300,000 in cash and 100,000 in a brokerage you're thinking you think you own $400,000 but that is not true if

you own 450 if you owe450 on a mortgage

you owe you owe 50,000 nothing is yours

that equation does not add up and then there's the other 80,000 in car loans.

So technically you are in the red.

>> It's a negative net worth. >> It's a negative net worth. So you're lying you're you're all of this is based on a lie that you're telling yourself. This money is mine.

This money's mine. And it's really really not. And so there's if you approach it from the math, the math is laughing at you. And if you approach it from the emotions, the emotions are going, well there's more peace over here if you go ahead and pay this off.

So it's kind of like what Dr. John Deloney says. You have to choose reality. >> Yeah.

>> And what is the reality telling you? And that's what I would tell you to do, Jamie, is take Rachel's advice.

off. And if you feel terrible, which no one's ever called in here and said, "I paid off all my debt and I feel horrible. Help me get it back.

>> But you could if you wanted to. >> You could if you want to." Yep. Hope that helps. All right, let's go to Dallas. And we have Chad on the line.

Hi, Chad. >> Hey, how you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

So, I've been listening for a while and

pretty much everybody I hear you talk about the baby steps with is on a structured income. My question is, my

income fluctuates monthly and yearly.

Uh, is there a custom plan made for

somebody in my situation or do we just

try to make the baby steps work for

>> everybody? Well, there's a lot of irregular income earners that call in.

Um, >> I was one, Chad, if that makes you feel better. >> Yeah, I technically am. I mean, yeah, we get I mean, number heard one and all the >> Okay. Yes. Yes. That it's very common.

There's a lot of people that are irregular whether they're doing freelance work or commissionbased um

positions where they make a lot one season or like photographers, they make a ton one season and then it kind of goes dead. So, you know, that that is a very um normal approach to money or

people have that situation all the time.

So, no, there's not a um a special way to do the baby steps, but if your job is it seasonally very different, Chad, okay, tell me tell me about that. What's the what's the seasons?

>> So, I Mother Nature controls my my work.

Basically, I >> uh my I fix hail damaged cars >> and so if it's storms, I have good storm seasons. I make a lot of money. If I have weak storm systems, then I >> Perfect. and low. >> So what I would do is >> about like I usually have about a four to five month slow period throughout the year. Okay. >> That I save my money for that slow time

and so the thought of paying that money off onto my debt.

>> Gotcha. >> Then work dies off and now I I'm scing

for money to pay my bills.

>> So yeah. So the so the paying extra on your debt is that doesn't include your monthly expenses. So, I would I would have that fund of what you've set aside for savings, which is so smart. That I would consider that amount of money for your expenses, for your your four walls, your food, your shelter, utilities, transportation.

That's not just extra money that's just hanging out that has no purpose. That's [clears throat] to cover your basic living expenses during low seasons. So, we do say to have um an account that we call your peaks and valleys.

okay, we spend x amount every single month that we need this much. and if we don't bring in any money, I have to pull this amount out of savings in order to cover our expenses. Like if you're down to a tea like that and you know um that that fund is there for that, no, I would not throw that extra at the debt. That's totally fine.

The paying off debt is above anything or anything that you can cut. So I would look at your lifestyle and say, "Hey, is there anything in our regular expenses that we have regardless of, you know, seasonality of the weather [music] that we can throw extra at the house?" But no, you're that fund I would consider your peaks and valleys fund to be able to literally pay your bills. So we don't tell people to get behind on their bills to pay off debt.

[music] But anything extra that you can squeeze out of the budget andor any more work you can do in those slow periods.

>> That's the T. That's the T right there is doing work in the slow periods.

>> Yeah. Go get another job during that time and man that you could double up which is great.

>> [music]

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Well, if you enjoy the show, one of the best ways that you can help us out is by spreading the word. So, putting it on

social, sharing it with your friends and family, it's always helpful. So, make sure to subscribe. Um, and yeah, give us a like, share the videos, and we always love to to spread the word about the show because we want to help people get control of their money. >> Absolutely. >> All right. Next, let's go to Trey in Houston. Hi, Trey. Welcome to the show.

>> How you doing? We're doing good. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm about $4,000 in credit card

debt right now. I don't have any other loans, no any other anything else. And

um basically me and my girlfriend have been talking about um getting married and I've been thinking about just engaging to her soon and stuff and she we've been talking about homes and everything like that and we've been I've been talking to her about the show but I just want to know how can I tell my girlfriend that I kind of lied about my

financial situation.

>> Oh no you lied. What happened?

So basically I only told her I like $2,000.

>> Why did you lie, Trey? Why?

>> So at first that's where I was at and

then I started just it started racking up over time when I did get my first my well my third apartment and then I just

not is. So, let me make this let me understand. When you told her you had 2K, did you have 2K and then you accumulated another two without telling her that you accumulated >> while you were accumulating the other two?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. That makes me feel a little bit better. >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, you didn't lie to her like upfront, but you've not been honest with her since. When was that conversation that you told her 2K and now it's 5K? Was it a year ago or like two weeks ago?

>> It was a couple It was a couple weeks ago. >> Couple weeks. You accumulated the 2K in 2 weeks.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Um, doing what again? Did you

say your third apartment? What What was the 2K for? >> Um, uh, 2K was used mainly for basically

like a lot of the like stuff that I have like currently. I got a lot of new stuff

um that I really haven't kind of told her about either. Like I got a lot of new stuff. >> Name it. >> I got a new bed. Okay.

>> I got a new bed. I got um some other

like f um like pots pan stuff like that.

>> Okay. Because you just moved. Okay. So, you're buying stuff for the apartment.

>> I moved not too So, basically I moved not too long ago, but I've been at her apartment a lot of my time.

>> Understood. >> So, a lot of the stuff has been at I've been at her apartment and I'm like moving.

>> What do you think will happen if you say, "Hey, just so you know, >> listening now." She's listening now, so she's probably hearing me.

Is she there with you or is she like at work listening and you're going to come home to >> Fury? Like listening on the Yes, I'm going to >> All right. Well, hi Tre's girlfriend.

Hope you're doing well. >> This is like my Why did you make it like this? Trey. [laughter] Okay. So, um, what's your girlfriend's

name? Can you say it since she's listening? >> Shayla. >> Shayla. Shayla. >> I can say it. >> All right. Shayla. Um, now you know. And

we're trying to tell him he needs to come home tonight and tell you what happened, but he's telling you now. So, the key here is you need to start paying this off. What are you making? What do you earn, Trey?

>> So, I uh originally earned around 48, but now I make around 50 cuz I got a 4% pay increase. >> Good. >> Um so, I make around 50 a year.

>> Good. >> Um at this point, I've been talking, me and her have been talking about this like we've been talking about your show.

We've been talking about the baby steps. I sent it to her today.

>> Um and stuff. So, we've been really talking and honing in and we've been talking about all the stuff about getting out of debt. She kind of told me where she's in debt on her end.

>> How much does she have? >> I kind of just like um around 8 or 9,000

and it's in student loans.

>> Okay. Now, can I ask you Trey, if you've been listening to this show, what caused you to go I mean, you have a fine income 50,000. What caused you to go into debt to buy [clears throat] pots and pans in a bed? Why didn't you just cash flow that? What was going through your mind?

So, at first, um, the problem was was

that I had to get the the stuff that's currently in my apartment. The like couch and bed stuff is not mine. It was my sister. So, I had to give that back to her. >> Got you. So, you felt like you were in a time crunch.

>> Yes. I was in a time crunch situation where I was like, I have to, you know, kind of spend it. Just kind of do it.

Either do it now. I see. So, I just want to encourage you going forward. I love that you and your and and Shayla are listening to the show. I love that you guys are starting to hone in on this. I just want to encourage you uh and also

just admonish you going forward. There's always going to be times where you feel like there's a time crunch. There's going to be times where you feel like you have to move fast. >> Urgency is where the debt >> the debt industry loves you when you're urgent. Whether you're on a car a lot and you're like, I got to get a new car.

>> I moved. Oh, god.

>> They find you in crisis. >> That's right. 100% 100%. But if you can

start now to exercise the muscle of just

even taking a moment, taking a breather and going, "Okay, what can I do instead?

Can I can I sleep on a friend's couch for a week while I save up some money?

Yes. Could I go on Craigslist? I don't even know if Craigslist >> or an air mattress, a $100 air mattress.

>> I slept on an air mattress for a long time. >> Yeah. So, just always know, Trey, that there is always another option. Okay.

So, in a situation, whether it's furniture or a car, >> there are options out there. So slowing down is a really big part of making wise financial decisions, not feeling like you're backed into a corner. >> Um that and then and I would want to get to and again it's only been two weeks so it's not like you've lived with this for months and like lied to her, right?

>> You know, I mean like but I would want to know from you what's caused you to

not tell her? Is it because she'll get mad? Is it that you're embarrassed? Is it that you wish you had done better and now you kind of have some guilt and shame around the choices that you've made? What was the main motivation? Do you know? I >> I would say honestly for me the main thing was just like you know me and her have been talking about marriage. Um and

like we've been talking about how much do we want to spend. She been talking about being getting eloped instead so we can save a lot of that money. We don't just go in and just have this big wedding ceremony. >> Yeah.

>> Um and she's not looking for that.

example of just learning that communication pattern you had a feeling about not telling her you didn't tell her but then even still you came on the show as a strange way of telling her I would just want encourage you in the future, just if this is a person you love, you trust, go to them and tell them the truth. >> Yeah. And starting off marriage with hiding the pots and pans, Trey, >> we don't want to do that. >> We don't want to do that.

so fast. And as honest as you can be, Trey, with her about this and going forward, I mean, yeah, Jada, we've been married, we've been married over a decade, both of us, and >> to men, >> what we've learned our own husbands. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's [laughter] sorry, not to each other, to our own spouses.

>> Uh that we one thing >> I think we [laughter] both say that, you

know, it there are things that are going to come up in life that you're embarrassed about and you're sh you know, you don't like things. You know what I mean? like that is going to happen and the moment you start hiding those things is where that trust erodess. So the more vulnerable and honest you can be trained this is a great first step and let me just say >> to lighten the lighten the load a little bit >> that it's $2,000. Okay it's not

>> some you know sometime it could be much worse. It can be much worse but but that doesn't matter regardless of the amount.

It's the principle behind it >> that I want you to get in a healthy pattern of you guys communicating and being and and I want you to cut up the credit. Was it credit cards that you that you charged it on? You said >> yes, it was it was credit cards. >> Okay, cut it up. You guys have been talking and listening to the show.

You've been talking about the show. Listen to the show when she start doing the stuff that we talk about.

>> So, cut up the credit cards, you guys.

Cash. She sounds amazing. I know she's listening. Girl, we are for you. We are on her team and your team, Trey. But >> she sounds so levelheaded. And be wise

about this. You know, if you don't have the money, don't buy it. And let that start to be a pattern in your life. And that that includes the engagement ring.

That includes the wedding and the honeymoon and all the things. Um, but yeah, I I think I think it's going to be awesome. Do you know when you're going to Well, no, I don't ask. >> How long have you been together?

[laughter] >> Right now, I've been with her off and on. We were off and on for about a year now. But, um, I have been secured with her for about going on three months now.

>> Secured with her. That's a good thing.

>> Really really on like a phase I didn't

know about.

>> Yeah. secured like it before we stopped

talking for a little bit and then we got back together. So, >> okay. >> I like it. I like it, Trey.

>> I'm excited for y'all.

>> Oh, man. Love it. >> And all the all the security coming forward. It's great.

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You can get it in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Andrew in Chicago. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, Jake. Hey, Rachel. How you guys doing today? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I am about to propose to my girlfriend of 5 years uh coming up in the next month or so. >> A congratulations.

>> And with us moving forward, obviously that comes wedding and pay for the wedding and looking at buying a house in the next couple of years. My question is,

when you're saving up for a down payment and for a wedding, should you still invest your 15% of your income uh for

like retirement or should you reduce that to a lower percent or kind of

guidance on that?

>> Well, so in the baby steps, technically the house would be 3B. So you'd save up

baby step three first. So 3 to 6 months.

Then you do 3B, which is say for a down payment, and then four is the investing, the 15%. Um, now if you felt like you

could do 3B and four at the same time and make, you know, fine progress on that down payment, I would say that's

fine. That's up to you guys if you want to do that. Uh, do you have any other debt or anything like that?

>> So, we're both out of debt. She's going to be graduating college here in December. Great. >> Um, debtree. I'm currently debt free.

>> Um, we're keeping our finances separate until marriage. >> Okay. >> So, I'm kind of just looking for guidance for what we should do. Um, I currently have 20,000 in savings.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> does she >> my yearly salary Go ahead.

>> Go ahead.

>> Um, my yearly salary I'm going to a new

job uh in two weeks. My current salary

will be a h 100,000 and her salary as a

teacher will be 50,000 when she starts in January. >> What would you be looking to spend? I mean in the Chicago area it can be pretty spendy. What do you What's it going to cost to get what you guys need?

>> Probably somewhere as a first home probably somewhere between two and 300.

>> Okay. Okay then. Yeah.

>> Further out in the west. >> Yeah. and the wedding, right? How much are you guys wanting to spend on the wedding?

>> Uh, we're just getting into those uh

weeds. Um, we haven't really decided on a budget yet. >> Don't call your wedding a weed.

>> I'm [laughter] just kidding. Is is family helping pay for any of that or is it all on you guys?

>> Yeah, I believe uh both her parents and my dad uh both are going to contribute to the wedding. So the first point of that would be really sitting down with them and finding out honestly what they plan to contribute because that's going to I mean obviously heavily impact what the overall spend of the wedding is because you guys are then going to have to look at your budget and say whether they help us or not here's what we can contribute. So having those numbers ahead of time and also understanding how it will be dispersed is very important to planning a wedding because if their thought was like, "Oh, we're just going to give you 10 grand as a wedding gift." That's very different because deposits and stuff have to be made.

So really getting in the details on that, as awkward as it may seem, I think is so important and is so helpful on the beginning part of planning a wedding because those timelines and those, you know, those deposits, they got to go on time. So >> Yes. Yeah. So to make sure you guys know, okay, here's what we're being helped with, that amount, and is that amount of money enough for what we're wanting as a wedding?

And if not, how much more do we need to add to that?

>> So that and then on top of that, yes, saving for um saving for a a house. So

if yeah, if I were you guys, you know, I'm okay with people pausing baby step four and not investing for maybe threeish years. Um, >> that's not really a hard and fast rule, but it's a good one though. >> Anything beyond that, I would probably want to get in and start investing because that compound interest is so great. But if y'all need to pause for a few years just to build up um a large

amount for a down payment, um then I would be okay with that. But I probably wouldn't go any longer than three years not investing. And then uh the 3 to six

month uh emergency fund, is that based

off of uh your income or off of

expenses? >> It's really based off of you could think about it a couple of ways. So I like to think about like job situation. I like to think of uh relationship status and health.

So for instance, if you were a single person, I'd probably automatically go to 6 months simply because if I lose my income, that's it, right? But if I'm married and there's another person who if I lose my income, but if they have theirs, there's a little bit more security there. So that's kind of how I uh consider like the relational side of it, then I'm thinking about health. If one of you is in, you know, poorer health and there's an opportunity for hospital stays or being out of work, that's another thing that could impact wanting to have six months versus three months.

Uh so those are the kind of things that I look at with you guys. I mean, is there anything?

how much you should save? Is that based off of saving up to three months of your

income or two months? >> So, I we don't really do by income. It's more of expenses. So, when you look at keeping Yes. >> Um you know, the rent paid, food on the table. So, that's what Winston and I did. We kind of looked at our monthly and we stayed Did you go bare bones?

>> We did. We did it bare bones at first and then later on we updated.

>> Yes. Yes. So, yeah. So, you guys could just start with, okay, what keeps food, lights on, the rent paid, and get that, you know, not all the extra exciting stuff, you know, no going out to eat, like if you got the bare bones, how much is that?

And then you can multiply that by three, four, five, six. Um, and that can give you kind of that number for that emergency fund. But what Jade's saying too, I think is important that you guys are going to be two people with two incomes, no kids.

could go on that three-month, especially since you are going to be saving up for a down payment like getting to that. Um, >> because you can always come back later.

>> Yes. And up it. That's right. That's right. >> Is that helpful, Andrew?

>> Yeah, that's perfect. That's questions.

Both questions been answered.

Definitely. I didn't know.

>> Perfect. So great. as well.

Congratulations again. Um, yeah, that's going to be fun. All right, quickly, let's go to Jamie in San Diego. Hi, Jamie. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you so much.

>> Yes. How can we help today?

>> Okay, my question is we, my husband and

I seven years ago were gifted Financial Peace University as a wedding gift. We were able to get completely out of debt, save six months of expenses in our emergency fund. We currently invest 15% of our awesome >> household income. Um and we have about $215,000 in savings. >> Okay. >> Um we live in a really expensive area.

We cannot afford to pay a mortgage yet.

Um we're in San Diego, so it's just really expensive. But my question is, um

we just had our second kid. I'm supposed to go back to work in December. The thought of going back to work and paying so much in child care for someone else to raise our kids is just really hard.

So, is it just a completely stupid move for me to not go back to work and us pull $1 to $2,000 of savings each month so that I can stay home with our kids because we have such a big of savings?

>> Yes. Y'all have 250. Y'all have 250 liquid, right? >> 2215. >> 215. Okay. You know, I I would be okay with it for like I don't know if it's if it really is 1,000 a month.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um and you need a little >> 2,000 a month.

>> Yeah. What's the long-term plan? Is there a long-term solve here or are you just living in an area that's way too expensive for you guys? Do you need to move?

>> No. Well, my husband changed careers about 6 months ago and he is on a track where he is going to be getting promotions and so hopefully this would only be a year or two of having to pull from savings and he has >> he has a lot of growth opportunity. But it's there's >> I would say Jamie So I would say I would be okay with it. I think you guys have worked hard.

you put money aside to be able to make some of these moves. But I would have a threshold because what can happen is you're like, "Well, we're in San Diego. You know, the promotions haven't really come. It's not really what's happening." You know, if stuff doesn't happen according to plan, you can start justifying your position.

So, you need a threshold to say we're not [music] going past 100,000 in savings. >> So, either I have to go back to work >> if the promotions aren't coming, but have that threshold. [music] But yes, I am okay with it for a time for sure. But don't sit there and just drain that 215 [music] without another plan. So have a threshold of what you will not pass.

That can be whatever number it is for you guys. Um but yeah, you've worked hard to make [music] choices and this is a choice you want and you can afford it.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds [music] Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz hosting today with Jade Warshaw and we're answering your questions. [music] Up next we have Nancy in Dallas, Texas.

Hi Nancy, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, so my husband lost his job about a

week ago. >> Oh my gosh, I'm sorry.

>> He was our sole income earner as I'm a

high-risisk pregnancy right now with our third kiddo. And I just learned some guidance on how we uh navigate the next

few months until he's able to find work.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. Are you high risk because of your age or are you high risk because of other factors? uh because of other factors and thank God there's a chance that the issue will resolve itself by the time the baby comes to term. >> Yeah. How far >> until that I'm on bed rest. Um

>> uh I am 24 weeks right now.

>> Okay.

>> Um okay. So financially where where are

you guys? How much debt do you guys have? Um, so we actually moved houses earlier this

summer um to a house in the country and

we've been trying to sell our other house. >> Oh gosh. You have two mortgage payments.

>> No, thank God. We were able our the

house we're in right now we have no debt on. >> Oh great.

>> Yeah. Uh but we have debt on the old house. >> Okay. >> And then we have two car loans.

>> Okay. Okay. How much are your car loans?

>> Um, my husband owes 5 grand on his truck

and then we owe 24 grand on my minivan.

>> Okay. And how much is the payment on the 5K? The truck?

>> Uh, $770 a month.

>> Okay. And how much is your van payment?

>> $57. >> Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment on the house that you're not living in? >> Uh, $1,470.

>> Okay. Um, perfect. Okay. And what was he

bringing home per month? Like what was hitting your account?

>> Um he got a lot of overtime. So it was consistently between seven and eight, but his base pay was uh $40 an hour, 36

hours a week. >> Okay. And what was um

what what was he doing? What kind of work? >> Uh he worked maintenance, facility maintenance. >> Okay. Okay. Do you have any money saved?

I mean, you were able to buy a second house kind of outright. Where'd that money come from?

>> Um, my husband worked really hard. Um, we both did for a while and then we came into some family inheritance money.

>> Um, and so it just kind of like sped up this process for this dream we had of moving out of the city and slowing down our lives. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Um, so between savings and inheritance, we were able to get out here and then we thought selling our previous home, it would pay off the cars, >> pay off the mortgage. >> Yeah. What will it bring when you sell it eventually?

>> Uh, it's listed for 260 right now and I

owe 160 on it. >> Okay. >> Um, so it should pay off all of our debt. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, and you So you don't have anything left over saved from >> We No, we ended up using all of our savings pretty much to build a house. We still have our 10,000 emergency fund though. >> 10,000. Okay.

>> Um, tell me this, Nancy. How how hard

will it be for him to be able to replace that income? It just feels like maintenance. I don't know. I I again, I don't want to be ignorant, but I feel like that's a very wide spectrum of being able to probably plug in somewhere pretty quickly, right? Would you Does he feel like there's options?

>> Uh, he's been applying a lot. Um, I

don't know that we'll find anything that's comparable to the last company.

>> Sure. >> But I think we can find something in the high 20s, low30s.

>> Sure. Okay. So, what I would do, cuz y'all you guys have $2,700 a month going out to debt.

>> Um, and I would I would figure out maybe you already have a really tight budget to figure out. You don't have a mortgage payment on the house you're currently living in. Um, but I would figure out food, um, utilities, gas for the cars,

like the things that you guys have to have. >> Um, and figure out, okay, here is the minimum that we can scrape by. And I don't know what that is going to be for you guys. I don't know if it's 4,000, 5,000. I have no idea. But you guys need to figure that out with the debt included. And if I were you, which I'm

so urgent, so I can't even imagine how you're feeling that you're on bed rest and like this is happening.

>> Um, did he get any severance at all?

>> No. No severance. >> Okay. What's the What's the movement on the house? Is there anything like I would be on my realtor like we got to close? Like we got to get an offer and close in 30 days. >> We've we've had the house listed since

June and it was originally listed at 290

and we've >> dropped it 30k.

>> When did you do the drop? >> Five months. >> Oh, it's been gradual. Okay.

>> It's been gradual. Yeah.

>> We dropped it down. I think the last drop we did like a week and a half. >> Yeah. average is two months right now sitting.

Um, so you guys are over that a little bit. So >> it might be a price thing. >> Um, yeah. So I I am with Jade, you know, if what what you guys can do to to be urgent on that, but even urgent on the on the income side, like if I were him, >> you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't care if it's comparable for right now because some things are going to turn, right?

This >> um after you know, you have the baby, the house sells, like some things are going to start to like >> alleviate some stress, right? as life continues on. Um I mean it'll be in the next, you know, six, seven months, but until then, in these next bit, I mean, I would think until like summer, like that would would be in my head. I got to go do anything.

Yeah. >> Anything to be able to stay current on this stuff.

Nancy, that he that he does apply and that what he was doing obviously was bringing a market value of something that was fantastic and that he can find something. You know, I think there's always a a natural assumption in our

human spirit that we if we lose something that the next thing's never going to be as good and so we're probably going to have to always downgrade especially if there's like a layoff situation. But that's not always the case. >> Yeah. Um I think both of you have got to

sit down tonight and decide that come hell or high water like debt, you're not going to go crazy into debt because of this. Like even if he's picking up Uber tomorrow, like any money coming in is going to be better than no money coming in. Because with $1,000, yeah, you guys are you guys are up against the wall, which is for the listening audience why we always say you got to have 3 to 6 months of expenses before buying a house. You've just got to have it.

Even if you're counting on another house to spend, money is not yours until it's in your hand.

And um yeah, for [clears throat] you guys, Nancy, I mean, we're pulling for you. Whatever he can get immediately. I I we had a call the other the other day where a guy lost his job. And I'm I I'm gonna give you the same homework that I gave him, which is to make a list tonight. You guys sit down, make a list of everybody you know that's in that field or know somebody that's in that field and call them. Like make contact.

Don't just text them. Call them and say, "Hey, I'm in the market. Do you know anything? Have you heard anything?" and really start making those connections personto person as much as you can. He should be going to coffee with people and because that's the way you're going to get a job. Just putting in resumes, you know, on the internet doesn't work anymore. So, make that list tonight and you guys hit the pavement on that.

>> Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. Oh, I'm so sorry. I could only imagine how stressful, but I think the stress will lower when money starts coming in >> and any [music] way that's possible for him in this season. Um, that's what we're looking at.

And I know I'm sure he feels it too. [music] Um >> but yeah. >> So um and again that budget figuring out how much on the [music] minimal side that you guys can spend on food, utilities, all of that. Cutting subscriptions, not going out to eat.

You guys are bare bones. It's [music] kind of that crisis mode right now. And that's okay. And you're going to get through it.

You're going to get through it. And >> he's going to find another job. The house is going to sell. Things are going to happen.

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Portland, Oregon. Hi, Mary. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Hello. >> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

>> Oh, thank you so much for just hearing this story out and giving your thoughts.

Um, so basically my husband and I um

were debtree except for our mortgage.

And um he is a hardcore do-it-yourselfer. Works really hard.

He's a diamond in the rough. Um he uh we

bought 10 acres 23 years ago when we got married with a single wide mobile home on it with the intention to build and you know life happens and um there was five of us in 850 ft. So him being him

um built an addition onto the mobile home that has uh failed. We have extreme mold >> and um it it needs to be torn down. He

wants to rebuild it. Um, and I think that we should either build or bring in a double wide mobile home. Um, we've even looked at moving, but with a brand new grandbaby on the way and my mom just recently in assisted living, I don't think that that's just an option. Um, so we're kind of curious, what would you do when you're in this situation and you really don't owe much on your mortgage?

Um, and you're looking at adding another mortgage. >> Yeah. Um, just question. Why can't you move? You said a baby and um your mother. Is it because you don't want to leave the area or the property? Because you could move somewhere else. I'm not saying that's the option. I'm just making sure that I've that I heard you correctly. >> Basically, it's family that's here and um we live in an area that's extremely expensive and we could never purchase what we have right now and replace it.

My husband has built a shop on the property that he has worked out of and

um so that would mean leaving that and leaving our extra income. Um we just

couldn't replace it. We'd have to move really far away. >> Sure. Okay. And you guys have is it 25 acres? >> We have 10 acres. >> 10 acres. Okay, perfect. And how much is the mobile home worth right now?

>> Um you mean like the current mortgage?

>> Yeah. >> Um we owe 95,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys make a year? >> A year he's at 80,000 a year. Um that

doesn't include any of the extras.

>> Okay. On average, what does he make extra? >> Uh that one I couldn't say. It kind of comes and goes. Um and so we don't really rely on it. It it could be a

couple thousand every month or so.

>> So can I ask a question about the addition? So you've got you had the initial mobile home, then you added an addition. The addition is the only place that has mold, right?

>> As far as I know, we haven't dug too far into it other than the addition. Yes.

>> So, if you were to how how many in your family is it just >> uh there's there's five of us. >> Five of us. So, if you were to remove

the addition, could everybody temporarily be in the initial part of the house or like I don't know how large this is. >> It's 850 ft. Um, yeah. I mean, it would

be tight, but yeah, we we could do that.

>> How much would it cost? I I'd love to know the numbers of what it would cost to remove the addition and then what it costs to add another addition.

>> Um, my husband does it all. He won't let anyone else do it. So, >> well, still >> Well, he may not have an option. I mean, like, you know what I mean?

Like that's that's where people pin themselves into bad situations is because well he won't do it or you know and I'm talking more to him than you Mary that you know you guys are in a situation that it's like I don't know I don't it may have to be an option you know what I mean like just taking it off completely because of his pride and he doesn't want to he just wants to do everything himself which obviously didn't work so we need all the options in the world right do you feel that way but he like won't even he won't even entertain the idea >> no he will he'll he'll entertain any of the ideas.

He's phenomenal. We just want to make a a financial decision that's correct, you know, because we don't owe much on our property. He is more of the type that once it's paid off, he can breathe and he has room, but yet we have no home to live in. So, >> yeah, you can't live in mold.

>> I mean, I guess tearing it down he would do. So, it wouldn't cost anything to tear it down other than taking things to the dump. >> Okay. So, free. >> Okay. >> And then um and rebuilding it. I think it cost us maybe five to 7,000 to build

it. >> Okay. So then that would that's the equation we're solving for. How quickly now if you have to that's why I asked can everybody uh stay in the main side because you got to get out of the mold.

So it's like >> getting that done and then doing the math of how quickly can you save $5 to $6,000 um with the margin that you have because there's no other debt. You should have a decent amount of margin laying around. I mean, maybe not a decent amount.

>> I homeschool my kids. Um yeah. So, yes,

I do. >> Yeah. No, fair. Fair. I shouldn't Yes. I really phrase it that way, >> but I I say I'm still going to ask the same question because you work full-time, your husband works full-time. both of you are going to have to do something on the side to bring in income in order to save up this $5 to $7,000 as quickly as possible because you guys are going to feel each other's presence in

that single part of that mobile >> his side business. I mean, you said kind of like, well, it's like around a,000, maybe 2,000 um a month, but we don't really count on it. I would be counting.

I mean, I would I would make it a goal to say we need to save at least $2,000

for the next three months. So, that's 6,000. And so then we can start the addition and that'll be a couple of months to do that. And so you know life looks different come you know May June

>> um if you guys actually buckle down and say hey no no no we are going to work extra to make this actually happen.

>> Yeah. The one thing that concerns me is the fact that once you um get into a

mobile home and you um take parts out of it and you add new parts in, it's not legal. And also insurance doesn't cover you if your house burns down. So that mean so what you're saying is your husband can't do the work. You have to hire a professional.

>> I don't think legally you can build an addition onto a mobile home. >> But he did and you were living with that and you wouldn't have said it. I'm don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you need to do something legal, but where was that logic the first time? I guess is what I'm asking. >> My husband does things on his own terms.

>> Got you. So Mary, help me with this.

When you called in with the question, Rachel's first thing was you you need to move somewhere else. and you were like, "That's impossible." >> So now we're now we try to go into your world and say, "Okay, well then let's just rebuild and you're like, well, here's the problem." So what do you want to do?

>> Um I mean, I'm open to anything. That's why I was called. >> Well, you're not open to anything cuz you're not open to moving and you have >> No, I'm >> Well, I'm Listen, I'm on your side, but I'm just saying what you said back to you. You're not moving is too expensive and you're concerned with the legality of the addition.

So there you have some qualms. So you're going to have to choose. >> Is there an option that we didn't think of? Is are you thinking, hey, scrap the mobile home and let's build our own home.

>> That's probably what I would look at anyways, Mary, to make it a goal to to build something. It'll obviously be more expensive and it would be adding on a mortgage. So, I I want you guys to do that. But, um having something that you

know cuz mobile homes, I mean, depending on the market, yes, sometimes they do go down and so um having something from a financial standpoint that's really steady um for your family long term, I

think, is a is a great goal. Is there is there a building plot for on that land on that 10 acres? I mean, I'm sure there is. >> Yeah, right where we're sitting. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, maybe it's you guys moving somewhere part-time. I don't know. I mean, I don't know, Mary. I'm just trying to think of things. Um, >> that's what I was kind of leaning towards was, but is that financially a

good choice? When you're almost paid off on your mortgage, do you want to add another 30-year mortgage?

>> Well, it's not that. What what you could consider, and I this is just I'm throwing something out there because I like Rachel's idea of getting in something permanent that can go up in value. But the truth is, you don't have the money to do that today, and you're living in a situation that's not healthy because of the mold. What if you kept the land? What if you rented somewhere for a while to save up to be able to

>> build on the land? People do it every day and going rent renting for a while is not going backwards. >> No. And it would [music] be, you know, he could still keep his shop, you know, there on the land.

Um, but yeah, you guys are going to have to get creative >> for a long-term plan um to get this to work. So, it's not Yeah, it's definitely not 1 plus 1 just equals two and this is like the easy route. There's going to have to be some give and take from you guys um from location standpoint maybe for a little while while you guys save some extra work that you're doing.

>> Mhm.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Up next we have Michael in Seattle, Washington. Hi Michael, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

My question is we are expecting our

first born in March next year.

>> A congratulations.

>> Thank you. And my question is am I able

to afford or is it wise for me to stay

home with the baby?

>> Well, let's look at it from a are we talk obviously a financial perspective.

So, does your wife work?

>> Yes. >> What does she do and what does she earn?

She's an HR manager and she earns 170.

>> Okay. And what what do you do today and what are you earning today?

>> I'm an engineer and I make 135.

>> Okay. Do you guys have debt?

>> We have some debt on a rental property

and that's it. Oh, and our mortgage.

>> Okay. So, if you were So, you have some debt on the rental and then your mortgage. What's your mortgage worth?

Uh the the note it has 450 left and the

house is worth [clears throat] 585.

>> Okay. What about the rental? I'm just curious.

>> Uh rentals 225 worth 225 left on the

note is 150. >> Okay.

Okay.

Okay. um you know if you if you were to

have crunched the numbers and said okay like we can do do you have 3 to six months of expenses?

>> We do. We have about 30k love it >> in uh yeah in set aside.

>> I mean yeah if you crunch the numbers and you're like okay we'd be going down substantially but we can live off 170 and we can continue to do you know baby step four and you know I don't know how I feel about this rental. Maybe that's not the question for today, but if you can do it budget-wise, there's really not a problem. Um, >> have y'all done a mock budget at 170

just to see like what she brings home every month? Are do you guys comfortably live there? Can live on that?

>> We have not done a mock budget, but we

can probably live off 170. And I know probably is not a good term, but >> yeah, you got to do the real numbers, >> right? Because usually the home is the problem. >> Was it? >> Yes, that was my primary question is can we afford the house? Is this advisable?

Should we pay down the the mortgage?

>> How much does she help? >> How much is her paycheck a month? How much is her paycheck a month?

>> Um right now, uh it's like maybe 6,000, but

that's got some investing taken out of it and other things. >> That's fine because you are in baby step four. So that that would have to the investing would have to stay taken out of it. Uh but how much is your mortgage?

>> Mortgage is uh 4600.

>> Oo 4600.

>> Impossible.

>> Yeah. That's >> I know that's almost I mean that's Well, yeah. Then you guys you can't live off 1500, can you?

>> A month?

Because >> if she brings home 6,000 >> No, you can't. I'mma answer it for you.

>> And your mortgage, right, Michael? But for real, like that's that's not right.

Right. You can't live off that.

>> Yeah, she she must bring home more than

that. I'm sorry. I'm getting my numbers mixed up. >> Okay. Um >> Well, that's it's important to do that budget. And I also want you to consider >> Yeah, she makes 170. She's not bringing home 6,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, she it's more after even after uh >> after tax and everything more.

>> Yeah, it's more like 10,000.

>> Okay, that that would make more sense.

>> And then you said that she is Do you know what percentage is going towards investing?

>> Yeah, 30%. >> Okay, so that could come back down. So, you'd have some extra money there. So, that's looking better. But I also you have to consider this rental. And I would probably say if you do this that you might have to sell the rental because if for some reason you don't have renters and you're on the hook for that mortgage for a time >> that's going to put you up a creek. Do you agree? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

>> And that'll give you a $70,000 cushion too with the equity which is just nice.

>> Mhm. >> During this time. >> Yeah. Cuz do you are you really making anything off the rental or are you just kind of breaking even?

>> Breaking even. >> Yeah. I'd sell it immediately and keep that cushion. I'm just curious, Michael, what caused you to be the one to stay home um and not her? I know she's making >> I mean, yeah, she makes 35 more than you do, but um I don't know. Is that was that a Was it a um career decision?

>> She loves her job and after the baby, she definitely wants to continue on with her career. >> Yeah. >> I like my job, but don't love it, if

that makes sense. >> Okay. Um, and

yeah, I'm just wondering if I can stay home with the kid because I feel like I would be a better dad than I am an employee. >> I love it. It's great. Okay, perfect.

Well, >> and if we sell the rental, what what should we throw that equity to?

>> Technically, it'd go at this stage, it'd go towards your mortgage. Um,

that's where you're at in the baby steps. I mean, once you guys are doing 15% uh and you're putting a little extra for the kids' college, right, 529 once the baby is born, then any extra money would go towards the mortgage. And you really wouldn't do any investing on top of the 15% till after the mortgage is paid. So,

yeah, I mean, right now, if you're uh let's see, you're at 30,000 saved. Yeah.

I mean, that's good. If you wanted to Is that a full six months? Like full budget six months?

Yeah, expenses. That's just our cash aside, not our other assets.

>> So, if you said she's bringing home 10 grand, that feels like three months of savings. I'd probably beef that up to six if you wanted like a like a robust 3 to 6 months since only one person's working. And then, yeah, the rest of it you could put it towards a house. That's what I'd do.

>> Okay. So, pay down the mortgage as fast as we can. >> Mhm. >> And tighten up the budget.

>> Yeah. >> And it would be okay. >> Yeah. [clears throat] I think that's great. Yeah, I mean the numbers aren't crazy. I mean the mortgage 4600

going to 10,000 is like a little bit like a um but I mean if that's what you

guys are choosing then right I mean it's close to >> it's really I mean >> 40 45%.

Le >> let's let's give you some clarity because you said you still have to do dig in on the numbers. If you get the numbers and it's over 30%, you got problems. Like 30 is like >> and that includes back her 50 her match like her um her retirement and all of that, right? That's added back into the salary.

So don't take that out. Add add the retirement back in. That gives you a little bit buffer. >> Um health insurance you can buffer back in, you know?

So some of this is like this is just after tax. It's not after health's insurance and retirement.

>> And if the mortgage is more than 30% of

what she's bringing home, >> that gives us pause. >> Yeah, 25% is the rule, but you can make it work on 30. But just know it's going to be tighter. That's why we said that.

But that's what you're getting to. If you're getting upwards, uh, Michael, of 35 40%, you have to just say no, at least for a season until you can, um, I

don't know, get maybe get this house paid off or maybe it's you working part-time and closing that gap on the mortgage and, you know, working it out like that. >> Yep. For sure. No, it's a good question.

And I think that's always a hard dynamic, Jay, that we get a lot of people >> wanting to go down to one income usually because of a family and they've set their lifestyle as a two income lifestyle >> and yeah, you take one away, the mortgage suddenly is a larger part of your percentage and all this stuff. That's >> that's one reason the rule of thumb of living below your means in general is a great idea. >> That's right. because when you overextend yourself um even beyond two

salaries, right? You're going into debt and all of this, then pulling back is is that much harder. So, um and if the bank, if you go to buy a house, you guys, the bank is going to offer you a lot more money. That's right. Than than what you need to take. And so, you really do want to be more conservative on these numbers so that it gives you options and choices.

>> Um and if you know you want to be starting a family soon and one of you wants to stay home and you're looking to buy a house, remember this, right? like don't build your life around two incomes if you know >> that it's probably not going to be two incomes for the next couple of years. Um but all that's really it's really hard though and then to do a mock budget because we get this question a lot if they can be a stay-at-home parent.

>> Yeah. Run the numbers for real >> and live it out. If you have the opportunity and the time to try it Yeah.

live one month with the budget that would be and see how it all feels cuz sometimes people go down to one income thing. It's going to bring peace and it actually brings more stress >> and for a season, you know, work to [music] get out of debt and put yourself in a better financial situation and then come back home and there's more margin and more peace and more enjoyment. So, [music] um yeah, a lot of different ways to look at it and a values conversation too of what you want for your family for sure. But also, we got to we got to be adults and make the math work.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our

scripture today comes from Isaiah 54:10.

[music] Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken, nor my

covenant of peace be removed, says the Lord who has compassion on you. Uh the

singer Pink, we got Pink. We got we got the book of Isaiah and the singer Pink.

Love it. >> Pink said, uh, "You can't move mountains by whispering at them." >> Okay, Pink. >> All right. I guess that's true. Guess we just [laughter] be a little more aggressive towards those mountains. >> Maybe. I don't know. also a mustard seed, I thought. But [laughter] >> conflicting with with the Bible.

>> Pink, you're >> I don't know. We don't know where we get our quotes. We just We take them.

Listen, >> we take them. >> She's a fabulous singer.

>> Yeah, >> give her that. [laughter] >> And a great She dances. She does all the like aerial trips. >> Yes, we'll give her that. Not quotes.

[laughter] >> All right, let's go to Tracy in California. Hi, Tracy. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. >> You are welcome. How can we help today?

>> Um, I left um teaching. I was an elementary school teacher several years ago >> and now it's time for me to go ahead and apply for my pension and I have a couple

of options that are quite different and I wondered if you could help me decide.

>> All right. What are your options?

Well, I can retire now at 60 on my

application and I will go forward with a

monthly pension of about $1,700 a month.

Or I could backdate to age 55

and that would lower my monthly to,135,

but I would get about $73,000

to cash out. About 50 grand after taxes.

>> 50 grand in addition to the 1,100 that

you'll get monthly.

>> Yeah, that'll still go forward.

>> Okay. Um, what other retirement do you have saved?

>> Um, so, um, my husband and I are debtree thanks to the Ramsey plan. >> Good for you guys.

>> Yeah. And so I have about 360 in

retirement investments.

>> Okay. >> And his his accounts have about 500,000

in retirement investments.

>> Good for you guys. >> And then he will um get he will get his

pension. That'll be about 7,800 a month

plus social security um and Medicare. So or Yeah. Well,

medical and then Medicare Sunday. But um >> what's that amount to? >> So yeah.

>> So 78 total.

>> For him? >> Yeah. >> That was including his social security and everything.

>> Um no social security will be on top of that. >> And how much will that be?

>> Um we're guessing not much. So, we're guessing probably 3,000 at the most,000.

Maybe closer to >> And you will you have some social security as well?

>> No, I will not. I didn't qualify for that because I was a teacher.

>> Okay. That's 10,800. What's your what's your what's your monthly budget? What's it take to operate your lifestyle?

>> Yeah. Well, we live in a very expensive

part of California. So, right now with

pets, etc., Uh we're probably at about

nine. >> Okay. So if you had it, his is 10,800.

Um it takes nine to operate the budget and that's not you ever touching a nest egg. And then if you had the 1,700,

would that be more than enough?

>> Um well, >> because I'm almost wondering this 50,000 could be helpful for you as a nest egg.

And if you can get by on the thousand, then >> I probably would take the lower payment but getting the lump sum of the 50 because then you get to invest it Tracy, right? With a pension, you don't have a lot of control over where they're investing it. So if you get this 50,000, you guys could put that in a great index fund or something. You know what I mean?

And and you don't you may not even have to touch a lot of this retirement just because of his pension and yours.

But if you got that 50,000, you guys are in the upwards of, you know, a little over $900,000 on your own, which is

incredible. And with your house and everything, I mean, yeah, you guys are baby steps millionaires, Tracy. You're exactly um what we talk about. I mean, you're a teacher. I mean, it's just it's phenomenal. Um, so I almost would want more control over the pension and the

amount um or or sorry I would I want

control if so I would want it as soon as possible so that I can turn around and invest it in something that I >> know you know I'm pretty guaranteed of what I'm putting the money into where the pension um you don't really have a lot of control over that. So I would I would opt for the latter getting 1,100

with the lump sum of of what it'll be 75 but 50 after taxes. >> Yeah. This the extra 700 is in incidental for you I think.

>> Okay. Yeah. I guess I guess we I didn't

consider investing because we already had money put away. So, um, you know, I

I don't I I didn't know that

that's what we should do with it, and I was afraid that if it comes to us, it'll be gone, you know, whereas the larger monthly pension would continue for my

life. >> Well, I think it's the opposite. I think that $700 if you add it to your monthly budget, it's going to get pled away on dog food and other things. But the

50,000, I mean, if you turn around and the moment you get it, if you invest it and put it with your other nest egg, that's going to go to work for you in far greater ways than that $700, cuz you weren't going to invest that $700 a month. You were going to likely spend it on lifestyle, right? And you said that your lifestyle ticks right now on $9,000. So, with your husband's pension,

his social security plus your $1,000,

you're already at 11,800 a month, which

is basically more than what you have now. >> And that's not touching your retirement.

And you guys have other savings, right?

Just do you have other savings that's just like an emergency fund on the side?

>> Yes. >> Perfect. Yeah, Tracy, you guys are doing Yeah, you're doing great. Either way, you're going to be fine. So, just hear me say that. If it just if that just keeps you up tonight, then choose the first one, you know, either way. totally fine. But if it were Jade and myself, this is this is what I would choose.

>> All right, let's go to Olivia in Wisconsin. Hi, Olivia. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Um, I was kind of wondering if I should be paying off my student loans while I'm still in college >> or if I should keep taking them out and

wait until afterwards. What would you be um paying them off with? Do you have income? >> Um just other side income money. Um both

my fiance and I work part-time.

>> Okay. So, if it were me, I would be saving to cash flow as much as you can for the remaining college >> and not take out any more loans and see, okay, what do we have to cash flow to not go deeper in debt? And then once you graduate, you'll have six months until those payments start hitting and then you guys can tackle that debt. Or you tackle it's your fiance, but I know you guys probably will be getting married. How much do you have in student loan debt?

>> Um I have about 10,000 and he has about 20. >> Okay. He has 20. You have 10. And how

much uh how much do you have left in school? How much time?

>> Um we both have like two and a half years left still.

>> Okay. And what's it what's it cost per semester?

>> Um per semester for me it's about

five with like um financial aid and

whatnot >> and for him it averages about 10.

>> Okay. Yeah. So I'd be focused like Rachel said on how can I cash flow this

every single semester so I'm not going further into debt >> and cash flowing my portion. You guys don't need to be paying on each other's tuition until you are married. So that is a that's a call we get Olivia where they're like I have $30,000 but I helped my fiance get through school and we never ended up marrying, you know. So

I would be separating these. So whatever work you're doing goes towards your tuition. Whatever work he's doing goes to his. >> And then once you guys get married, do you all have a date set?

>> Yeah, it'll be um May of next year.

>> Beautiful. So after May, then you guys can combine everything. Um, are you guys making enough to to live off of being full-time students? >> Yeah, we make Yeah, we get um we take out extra loans for that, too, as well.

So, we make about 3,000 a month.

>> Wait a minute. That's not made money if you're taking loans for it. >> We want to stop that. Do not take loans to be living off of. You guys need to be cash flowing your lives. And [music] if that means pausing school for a little bit, then we may need to do that. But we're not we don't need to go deeper in debt for lifestyle. So, you either need to find and be working more um or just

Yep. pump the brakes on the on [music] the tuition cuz you guys may not be able to afford it right now. Thanks for the call, Olivia. Well, Jade, great show.

>> Always fun. Thanks to all the guys in the booth and remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace [music] and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 122. Nothing Destroys Your Finances Faster Than Broken Trust | November 28, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERGQygBcglA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:56:42 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel joined by bestselling [music] author Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Peter is in Philadelphia [music] to kick us off. What's going on, Peter?

>> Uh, hi. How are you? Just um stressed

about bills and thinking about bankruptcy. >> Uhoh. >> Oh man. How much debt do you have?

>> Uh, a little over 25,000.

>> What kind of debt is that? >> Closer to 30. um car, personal loan,

hospital bills, um gas bill,

>> and what's left on the car?

>> The car is 10. The personal loan is 11.

And that's that's just, you know, like personal loan just cuz I'm trying I'm trying to get myself out of a jam. So, I

go back into it. >> Mhm. You're in a cycle. What do you make, >> right? uh 126 um base salary,

>> dude. And >> I think last year I pulled in about 180 for overtime. >> America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000 and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over 20. >> Yeah. What else is going on?

>> What else is eating your lunch? Cuz it's not it's not $25,000 of debt.

>> You could pay off this debt in less than six months. >> Time. I mean, I I do have other things.

I mean, I take care of my kids.

>> Okay. tell us about that because right now we're we're trying to understand where's the problem.

>> Yeah. Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just, you know, whatever they need and and whatever their mom needs, I just take care of.

>> That's true. But again, if you were if you were >> I'm not going to lie, misspending.

>> Okay, that's what it is. Because even if you were married with the kids in the house taking care of them,und you know, $125,000 income would still be a great income. So it's not the kids. It sounds like you're

overspending in other areas. Do you have any kind of budget that you're on?

>> No, not really. >> Okay, there's there's the problem. So, I guarantee you today if you were to just do a an old school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, "All right, here's the money I take home my my net amount when I when I take home my check, and now I write down what I'm spending money on, and I'm just going to go back through my bank statement." I think you would see the problem. Are you dating anybody?

>> No. >> Okay. So, then you're just spending money on yourself. Is it food?

Are you doing a lot of >> Door Dashing?

>> Um, I don't know. Maybe fast food.

>> Mhm. >> Um, uh, go Yeah, I guess going out fast food. >> Uh-huh. You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks. Anything like that? I don't have time for that. I work too much for work too. >> Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. If you make a h 100 and I mean we could talk about taxes and nickel and dime, but essentially if you made $100,000 a year, 126, you could live on

a hundred and pay this debt off, right?

At the basic level in less than a year, can you live on $100,000 a year?

>> I think so. >> I think so, too. You're a single guy. I mean, yes, you've got your kids to take care of. How many? Two.

>> Three. >> Three. Okay. How old are they?

>> 16, 20, and nine.

>> Okay. And the 20-year-old, is she in college? >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> What do you put towards that every month? >> Um about 600.

>> Okay. >> And what are you taking home? Like what ends up in your paycheck? Is it like $8,000?

>> Oh, that's right. I also have a pension loan out. >> A pension loan? >> Tell us about that. >> Yeah. Oh, that I didn't even I totally forgot about that because that comes out of my check automatically. So that I think I have about probably about 24,000 left to pay on that.

>> Okay. How much comes out of your check?

>> Is 463 a um every two weeks.

>> What caused you to take that pension loan?

>> Oh, that's a long story.

>> Okay. Uh what about credit cards? Are you using those?

>> No. Oh. Oh, glad you said that. So, there's a I got about 6,000 on uh >> Okay.

>> Capital One. >> Okay. Now, now it's starting to come to view. >> We went from 25 up to 50.

Now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about? Like, hand on the Bible. What else do you have going on?

>> Student loans. >> That's I forgot about the Capital One card. >> Did you forget about student loans? >> A year ago.

>> No, I don't have any student loans. >> Thank God.

>> Uh the Capital One card.

>> Okay. >> And the gas bill. >> All right. Are you ready to like take control of this as a grown man with three about grown kids and you're like, "Dude, I'm ready to clean up my life." >> Cuz if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you are. >> I got to Yeah, I am.

>> Okay. >> I'm just too stressed out.

>> Starting tonight, you're going to make this budget and it's going to give you so much peace just to have the numbers laid out in front of you. Even if it's scary, even to go, "Gh, I don't like what I see." At least it's not the boogeyman and all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. So, we're going to gift you every dollar to actually make the budget.

It's a digital app you can download. And you're going to list out your income for the month. And if that's 7,500, you list that in the income section.

And what you're going to see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw at the debt. And I I [clears throat] want you um to use your bank statement as a guide when you do this because I kind of feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. So if you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food, right? When the reality is you might spend like $1,100 on on food, right?

So go back, get the bank statement for September and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November. Okay? That's going to let you see, okay, now now you're going to see, oh yeah, this pinion thing came out. Now you're going to see, oh yeah, this what I spend on gas.

And it's going to take you, you know, you could do it. If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes. But I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done, but it's going to give you, like George said, so so much peace.

>> No, [clears throat] nothing serious. Just pennies on Robin Hood.

>> Oh boy. Okay, >> let's delete Robin Hood for now. Can you promise me that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. We're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time. >> And what do you get every year when you do your taxes? Uh, what kind of refund do you get?

>> I don't. Last year was the first time I owed. >> Okay. >> Okay, good. Yeah, the budget, I mean, it's the blood work. It It tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

>> Okay. >> So, once you do this budget, you're going to figure out your main expenses. Here's like food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're going to get real judicious and cut out.

And that means eating out, that's got to go cuz we got we got to clean this mess up. And we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months.

>> Mhm. >> Does that sound better?

>> Yeah. >> Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say, just using ballpark numbers. And you throw 2500 a month at

this. You're done in 22 months, less than two years.

That sounds great, right?

>> Yeah. >> And we avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next seven years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over a over debts these small. >> Yeah.

>> And so, I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So, hang on the line. We're going to gift you Every Dollar.

Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity. And the new every dollar in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so, it's like we're going to be in your pocket guiding you along the way on this journey.

And we are rooting for you, man. >> We think you're worth it. We think those kids are worth it. And you're very capable.

If someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year, you are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it. Debt is not a shortcut. It's not the answer, man.

You are.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family. [music]

[music] This is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 88825-5225.

[music] You call us and we'll talk about your life and your money. Eli is up next

in Indianapolis. What is happening? Eli,

>> how you doing, guys? >> We're doing well. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. So, my question is, uh,

I lied to my girlfriend. That's not the question. >> That's an admission. That's a confession. We appreciate the honesty here. >> Yeah. >> I'm not a priest, though. I can't help.

[laughter] >> Maybe we can help financially. for for two two years now that I can't afford stuff that uh I'm broke and that I like

staying in. I'm not

I'm not broke. I I I can afford pretty much what I want. I'm out of debt 100%.

I own my house.

>> And she thinks you're broke because for two years you were like, "Hey, listen.

I'm strapped for cash." >> Yep. Pretty much. And she it's not like I've been mooching off her or anything like I I pay my way. I I don't I'm not

trying to be worthless in that matter or anything. But >> why then? >> I just like I've got a 95 95 Toyota

Tacoma. She's always asking me why don't I get something else and I always tell her I can't afford it. >> Why? Why not just tell her I'm happy with my truck?

>> I mean yeah >> what what's behind all the the pathological >> lies? It was pretty stupid, wasn't it?

>> Is it because you just said it and then once you said it, you were like, I got to stick to it now. >> You got to play this weird character.

>> No, I mean, >> what is her financial situation? Is she bad with money? Is that why are you afraid that if you tell her that you are good with money that she'll start mooching off you?

>> That's that's been my that's what I've happened in the past. >> Ah, so there's some past baggage and trauma. And so you're going, well, I'm not going to do that again. That hurt.

>> Yes. >> And so now I'm gonna lie because if she knows I have money, I could get hurt again.

>> Yes. >> Is that a more accurate picture?

>> So because usually behind every lie there's a fear.

>> There's a lie that you've told yourself long before you lied to someone else.

>> Yes. And and honestly, I didn't even realize it's been a lie until

a couple months ago. And then I'm thinking like I'm wanting to get serious with this with this girl and I'm wanting to make things happen. So, she's gonna have to find out sooner than later.

>> How long have you been dating?

>> We've been about two years.

>> So, two years. And you've been saying this from the jump. Um here here's what

I want to know because I I know you're saying that you've been lying. Uh I'm trying to I want to go a little bit deeper on this. So, does does she think that you have mortgage debt or you just haven't mentioned it?

>> Does she think that you carry debt?

>> She knows my house is paid off.

>> Okay. >> She So, I was I was uh I was very proud

whenever I paid my house off. I She was the first one that I let know when I paid my house off about 6 months ago.

>> But like when it comes to doing fun or what you might think of extravagant things, even though you're thinking, "Hey, yeah, I might enjoy doing that." You're lying and saying, "No, I don't want to spend money on that. I just like a simple life, right?

>> Yes. >> Is it affecting your relationship? Is she frustrated that you guys can't enjoy experiences and eating out?

>> No. No. I mean, she's she's a very very simple woman and I' that's kind of what's >> I would just have the come to Jesus conversation. Take her to a different environment and maybe a different place, a date, whatever, and say, "Listen, I got to come clean cuz I want this relationship to be built on trust. I've done a poor job of that." Mhm.

>> And then say, "Here's what I did. Here's why I did it, and I am very sorry. Will you forgive me? Can we move forward with this relationship with honesty?" >> Yes.

Okay. >> That's the only way forward. And her response is now that's up to her how she responds. She might say, "Kick rocks, pound sand.

I'm done with this relationship." >> I just have a I have a funny thought about this though. Like usually, okay, here's the thing, >> Eli. Usually if somebody says they've been lying, I'm like ready to go hard in the paint. But I'm listening to you.

have no debt. You have a paid off mortgage. Part of me is like, how much are you lying? Because I'm like, you seem like you are kind of a simple guy who doesn't want to spend a lot of money because you've done all of these things.

So, I'm trying to I need an example of like what you said that was a lie. Like

what you've been saying to her cuz I'm like it sounds you sound pretty simple to me. the the the the most the simplest

example is uh I was working on my my

pickup truck. It's a 95 Toyota >> and it's kind of a hunk of junk, but I I grew up dirt poor. >> Okay. >> And I love I love that truck. I don't need anything else. >> Yeah. >> I drive I I hardly ever drive it. But she asked me, "Well, why don't I just get something newer and better?" And I told I told her, "I can't afford it." >> Okay. when really you feel like the reason is I just don't want it.

>> It's not a priority for you. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> But you [snorts] felt weird saying that.

>> It was easier for you to like to have the guys of like, well, it's just it's too much money for me.

>> Yes. And then there her her and her her and her uh family went on a cruise a while back and uh I didn't go because I

couldn't afford it is what I said. But really what you're feeling is you're you came from being dirt poor and you're af

it sounds like you're afraid to go back to that and so certain things that other people might splurge and spend money on you're like listen I I don't feel the need to do that.

>> Yes. I I I really don't.

>> Okay. So maybe it's just a simple thing of changing the language and next time you talk to her you're saying you know what I've been telling you I can't afford things but I want you to know my heart. I technically I can afford it. I just don't care about spending money on those sorts of things. You know me, I've got a paid off house. You know, I don't carry debt. And my priorities with money, I feel like sometimes our priorities with money are different. And maybe that's the conversation because I

you kind of painted yourself to be a liar about it. I don't know. It doesn't feel like >> you don't seem like a terrible person.

And it's the weirdest thing to lie. It's most people would say I lied. I'm actually in crippling debt, [laughter] >> right? >> And she thinks I'm very wealthy.

Yeah, just your motivation. You're not telling her your true motivation. >> But I would say I would I think it's okay to just sit her down and say, "I need to be honest with you. I know like this is a big deal to me.

It may not be to you, but my phrasing and language has not been honest." >> Yeah. >> When I tell you that I'm broke, I don't have the money. Really, it's just it's not a priority for me and I don't care to spend money on those things.

>> That's right. and maybe even line it up with the next part of that, which you did let us know that you're kind of worried that if she knows that you technically can't afford to do these things, you're worried that she's going to try to inflate your lifestyle in a way that you don't necessarily agree with or want to do. And I think it's important to have those conversations before you think about things like getting engaged or getting married because you do want to find out, you know, and it's, don't get me wrong, it's okay if she's different from you, but you guys need to start figuring out what that balance looks like.

>> Okay, >> I hope that helps, Eli. That's a very interesting conundrum. Thanks for trusting us with this situation.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. All right, let's try to take a quick one here from Mike in St. Louis up next. What's happening, Mike?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure, how can we help?

>> Hey, um, so I'm wondering if my wife and

I can pause baby steps four and five to

finish baby step six in under 24 months.

And the reason I'm kind of feeling that way is because it I'm I'm looking at it the same way you guys look at baby step 3B where you can pause investing for 2

years or less while you're saving up money for a house. It's just I already have a house. So I'm trying to get your guys thoughts on that.

>> Short answer is I'm always going to tell somebody to walk the baby steps in order. Um how much do you owe on the

house? What are we talking about?

>> Just checked. Yeah, it's 137,000 left.

>> And how many kids do you have?

>> Uh, just one. >> And how old are you guys?

>> Uh, I'm 30 and she's 28.

>> Okay. And the child, I imagine, is very young. >> Uh, actually she's 13. She's from previous relationship. >> Okay. So, we're talking >> And what's the >> college in 5 years? >> Mhm. >> Do you have enough covered right now to cover college or to help pay for it? Uh we have about we have about 30,000 uh which would cover the first uh probably year or two depending on where you are.

>> And you're doing no investing right now.

>> Oh no, we are doing baby steps four and five right now. We would pause to do that. >> I love your your excitement to get the house paid off. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze on this. To pause the investing, to pause college, I would just keep investing 15%, put some money towards college. The house will get paid off probably a year later. Big whoop. I

I don't think you need the gazelle intensity that you currently have.

You're moving [music] from intense to intentional in baby steps four, five, and six. I'd stay that way. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is88255225.

Well, it's time for our longunning segment, Jade. >> And by longunning, you mean this is the third time? >> Third time. >> Okay.

[laughter] >> It's long for me, you know. So, it's called Pick a Side. And this is where we have two people on the line and we have to help them kind of settle a debate and you and I at the end of it have to pick a side after we hear them out and hear their case. >> I enjoy this thoroughly.

>> I pitch Judge George for the name of this segment. They didn't like that. >> Judge George.

>> Oh, >> just a little baby gavel. >> Then I'm going to pitch Judge Jade.

>> Oh, dang. That's so [laughter] much cooler. All right, I give up. Here we

go. Let's see what Jennifer and Joe have to say in Denver, Colorado. What's going on, guys? >> Hi. Yeah, I'm ready to buy a new car and

my husband thinks I'm fine with the one that I have. >> Oo. >> Wow. All right, Joe. What do you have to say for yourself?

>> Well, I do agree that she needs a new car. Um, she just wants to spend way too

much on a new car. >> What is spend? [laughter]

>> 50,000. Okay, that's a lot of money.

>> And that's the most you guys have ever spent on anything outside of a house, I'm guessing?

Yes. >> Uh, yes. >> Okay. Where are you guys at financially?

>> We're on baby step seven.

>> Paid for house, no debt. Love it. And what's your net worth?

>> It would be what our house is worth.

>> Yeah. 600,000 >> plus retirement.

>> 700.

>> So, not quite a million.

>> No. >> Okay. >> Nope. >> All right. And what's the household income?

150 approximately.

>> Did 150. Okay. 150.

>> And how much cash do you guys have in the bank?

>> We have our emergency fund right now of 10,000. >> And I got 10,000 in my business account.

>> So 10,000 and 10,000 if you were to buy this car. A is it were you thinking of

getting something brand spanking new?

And two, how are you going to pay for it? >> What's >> I would want to save up for it.

>> Okay. And I don't necessarily want something new. Um, it's just what I want

just came out. So, I want to wait a

couple of years um until I can buy one a couple years old. >> What kind of car is it? Can Can you tell us? >> It's the Toyota Grand Highlander.

>> Highlander. >> Where's John Deloney when we need him?

That's what he ended up getting.

>> I need like a picture of a Highlander. I I don't really know what that is. I'm going to Google it.

>> They're beautiful. Really great cars.

Okay. So, what is the car you're currently driving? >> I have a 2007 Acura MDX and it's getting

close to 200,000 miles on it.

>> Oh, she's just getting started. >> That's a nice That's a nice >> MDX is invincible. Okay. Love that. And what is he driving? I'm curious.

>> I have a 2004 GMC pickup truck. And then

we also have a 2020 Transit Connect van.

I'm self-employed and so I use that van for work. >> Cool. Okay. Okay. Might be time for both of you to upgrade. Baby step seven, living like no [laughter] one else. So, I'm guessing you guys have a sizable margin in your budget now to save up.

How much could you throw every single month just to kind of a side savings account?

>> Oh, I think we could have it saved in 6 months. >> Wow. >> Yes. Yeah.

>> Pretty simple. So, yeah. I mean, we could save five six thousand a month of our expenses. >> Okay. So, um, tell us Joe, why tell us

what you would do if it were your choice. Obviously, we know Jennifer wants his $50,000 Toyota Highlander, slightly used. In your book, what's something a little bit more reasonable?

>> 30 35,000.

Maybe not the Grand Highlander, but the regular Highlander. >> That's what I'm looking at. This one I'm looking at is like 30,000 2023 Highlander LE. Is that not the one? No,

I want the grand highlight.

>> You want the big boy?

>> They just came out in 2024.

>> Okay, got you. >> Joe, I'm curious where where'd you get that 35 number from?

>> Just your heart.

>> Oh, yeah. Just my heart. Yeah.

>> I mean, I look on Craigslist and you can find the regular Highlanders.

>> I see one. >> 30 30,000 miles for 30,000 or so.

>> Yeah, I see what's going on here. Okay.

Interesting. Um >> Oh, all right. We had a lot of information here.

>> I feel like, you know, we've been doing Dave Ramsey's baby steps for a long time. I feel like I've been living like nobody else. When do I We're on baby step seven. When do I get to live like nobody else? >> Listen, I feel that. So, tell me, when was the last time you did an activity that you would call a live like no one else, the ladder that that you

>> at least a couple of grand where you're like, we dropped some money on this.

>> We went to the Dominican. Yeah. Okay.

>> Okay. >> When was that?

>> Last month. >> Nice. Okay. Okay. >> So, you guys are enjoying life.

>> Yes. >> So, we would say you you've driven like no one else. Now, it's time to drive like no one else. You've driven the the Hoopty Dave car. Now, it's time to drive the Dave car. You know what I'm saying?

>> I made up my mind. I I know what I'm I know how I'm going to vote.

>> It it I got got in a car accident a couple months ago, so it's dinged up on the side. >> Oh, man. Listen, keep you keep playing.

Tell us more. She's like really playing it up. [laughter] >> All these stupid little things don't work on it anymore. Like you cannot reset my clock. You can't tell what time it is in there. >> Jennifer, I call those special features.

>> My seat belt doesn't go back.

>> Listen, I got my phone in the car. I got my Apple Watch in the car. I know what time it is. It's fine. That's not a big deal. But I'm with you. Here's Okay. Can I vote? >> I know what my vote is. Are we casting votes? >> I think we're casting votes. You guys ready to hear the the verdict?

>> Let's say it on three. >> All right. Or the name of the person that we think is right. >> Uh yeah. Say the name of the person you think is right on three.

>> One, two, THREE. JENNIFER.

>> YEAH. >> OH MY. >> JENNIFER, you just won a brand new No, I'm just kidding. [laughter] >> Toyota Highlander.

>> Be fantastic. Now Dette said from Broy Hill, I could be on >> you think. Are you shocked?

>> No, I'm shocked. Of [laughter] course, Joe was shocked. >> Here's the thing, cuz I know this. We bought my wife a a new to us car. It was a slightly used luxury car, and it hurt

my soul, Joe, to write that check.

>> But I also knew this is part of living the plan. >> It's part of the plan. >> And I have a hard time letting go and writing a big check like that. But when you pay for it in cash, you go, "Oh my gosh, that was a lot." And then you go, "This is paid for.

This is amazing. This is a huge blessing. And it's why we lived like this for so many years. And so I think you guys are doing the right thing.

Just so you know the parameters here.

>> So that's where I'm going. All right. 150K is your income. Everything you own should be 75K. >> Listen, Joe, you could turn around and get yourself a $50,000 car and be all right. >> Now, what is this Transit Connect worth?

>> Um about 20,000, I guess.

>> Yeah. >> So even the 20 plus the 50 for hers, that would be 70. You still got some wiggle room there.

>> Not too much. Not too much. And you know, maybe you wait three years and you get the Highlander, but I think you you go for it in two years from now and you get a 2-year-old grand Highlander. And

uh if you can't wait that long, then just go for a normal Highlander and you can always upgrade later. >> Nothing says you have to drive this car for the next 20 years, which is kind of how you guys have been living, >> right?

>> I feel like Joe's really disappointed of us. [laughter] He was waiting. No, you shouldn't spend more than 30.

>> But I think that will help you guys to go, okay, half of our income shouldn't be tied up in these things. That means we do need to scale back because this transit plus the car Joe's going to get plus the car Jennifer is going to get, it's going to add up to be >> a large part of our world. And then once you hit millionaire status, you can go buy that brand new car. And here's why.

It's not a, you know, fundamentalist thing. It's just that too much of your world would be tied up in a depreciating asset. But when you have a million dollar net worth, you can stomach that hit on depreciation a little easier.

>> And so you guys will be there in no time. How old are you, too?

>> I'm 45. >> And I'm 56. >> Oh my goodness. You got so much time to live and drive like no one else. And you know what, Joe? I think it should be time for you to upgrade after. What is your dream car, Joe? >> It's a $30,000 car. We know that.

>> It's the one he's got.

>> I actually love my truck. [laughter] >> He wants another GMC pickup.

No, he wants he wants to keep the one he has the one I got.

>> That's amazing with it. >> It's got an 8ft bed. It's got the diesel and I'm good. >> Thank you, Joe. They don't make those 8 foot beds anymore. All these new pavement princesses out here got the tiniest little beds. I'm like, what are we even buying pickup trucks for anymore? >> So then Joe, real quick, tell us if you could spend $30,000 on anything, not a vehicle. What is your thing? Like what's your live like no one else thing?

>> I would do a boat.

>> Hey. Okay, there we go. >> Now we got it. [laughter] Joe's in the boat. Thank you guys so much for the call and for letting us have some fun. Excited for you guys to make that cash purchase of that beautiful new to you car very, very soon. More of your calls coming up.

88825-5225.

This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

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You're listening [music] to the Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. Why refi [music] refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now you guys, private student loans are a are different than federal student loans, right? Like Sally May. So learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lumpsum payoff option you could qualify for uh after 24 months. Go

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>> Today's question comes from Alyssa in Pennsylvania. Oh, never mind. It's Courtney in Iowa. We had two. I'm going to go with Courtney in Iowa. Final answer. Uh she she asked, "My ex-husband and I received a large inheritance during our marriage and set aside college money for both of our children.

Now, my ex is financially strapped and has asked our youngest son for his college fund, which he didn't end up needing to fund his education. Our son is 24 and getting married soon, and I trust he will use the money responsibly.

I can't believe my ex has put our youngest son into a terrible position.

Is our son morally obligated to give his father this money?

>> Short answer, I'm going to say no. There's no moral obligation. There's no legal obligation.

>> No. And I I have questions, though. I

mean, my first thought is, okay, the parents put the money aside for the kids in the 529. they list the child as the

beneficiary unless there was a

discussion that was like, "Hey, what if you don't use this money, it goes back to us and they change the beneficiary back to themselves or the wife or whatever." I don't know. But if it's still in the son's name, I'd be like, "This is my money." >> Or I mean, he's about to How cool would it be to change the beneficiary to their kid? >> That's what I'm saying. Yes.

>> In a year or two or five or whoever, you know? I I think that's and part of this is we're enabling this ex's bad behavior. For a grown man to just suddenly be financially strapped and need to rob his kid's college fund tells me a lot about the character of this person, >> right? Because a 529 is a gift.

is you gifting the gift of education to your >> Well, the confusing part is this came from a large inheritance during their marriage that they then set aside in a college fund. >> Yeah. But still, even if they had worked to save the money, you know, it would still be money that they earmarked and said, "This is a gift to our kids for their education." So, in many ways, it does feel like revoke like like turning around on a gift. >> Yeah.

>> I'm I don't Yeah, I don't like it. And I don't like this ex having I think he needs to find a different method to get this money than to rob the college fund, which by the way will come with a whole bunch of penalties. You got to pay income taxes plus the 10% penalty on top of that. And so I I'd hate to see that when this money's been growing taxfree, it can be used for future generations to allow them to go to college debtree.

>> When this son has kids.

>> Yeah. And if you're I mean, let's just pretend for a second. Let's play this out, George. Let's say how much money would need to have been in there to pay for kids college? Maybe. Maybe there's $70,000 in there to pay for the whole thing. if he didn't use it. Then there's

this idea of my ex is financially strapped. Like you don't suddenly up and need 50 or $70,000. That's overtime

>> many decisions being made. So yeah,

>> my final answer is >> this whole thing just gives me heartburn just looking at it. But I would say uh no, your son is not morally obligated to give his father this money. And I wouldn't if I were him >> and if I were the mom. So, I can keep going on this. And if I were the mom, it was both of their inheritance.

>> That's we don't know where this came from and all that.

>> Well, she says, "My ex-husband and I received an inheritance." I'm like, part of this is on her, too. Like, she should get to decide. And if she says, "No, this is our son's money. That on that.

>> I can figure it out." >> All right. >> Thanks for the question. That's a real common math problem. It hurt my brain.

>> These are the hard topics that George and I go after on the Ramsay show. It's very hard-hitting content. It's >> what we do. >> All right. Let's go to David in Providence, Rhode Island. What's going on, David?

>> Oh, hello. >> Hello. How are you?

>> Hi. Hey. All right. I'm good. How are you? I'm I'm I like the how Dave puts it. I'm better than better than I deserve. >> Okay. Love to hear it. How can we help today?

>> Um so, me and my wife are in an interesting um financial choice right

now. Um and I think it's kind of like a

piv pivotal choice and I just need some advice. Um, so we have no debt, no kids.

Um, Lord willing, we'd like to have kids in about 5 years.

>> Okay. >> Um, and then at that point, you know, we

would go down to like a single income.

You know, we we just would both value her being a full-time mother. Um, so we

have about4 to $45,000 saved up in the

bank. >> Okay. >> Um, and we're currently renting an apartment right now. Um our rent is uh

$1,575 a month.

>> Um which is sort of average for the area that we live in. >> Um so our question my uh my question rather

is um do we buy a home that we can

afford right now that would not really suit us when we have children? Meaning we would we would probably have to sell it in about 5 years. >> Mhm. or do we continue to rent for like another 3 to 5 years and then buy a

house that would be bigger and maybe maybe suit us more as a a larger family?

>> Why would you need to sell when you have one kid? >> That's what I was going to ask.

>> Um yeah, I mean we really wouldn't need to sell for like the first kid. Um we we

kind of both would like to have more than just one though. Um but yeah, I mean like >> but that stretches you to like five or that stretches five years to like maybe seven years. No.

>> Um, >> as far as space, because an infant is like this big.

>> Yeah. Well, so maybe I should define the space a little better. I >> mean, they don't make onebedroom homes >> or >> Well, [laughter] or we're looking at is is 200 200,000 for a not really a home,

I guess. It's more like a cottage. It's 650 square ft.

>> That's like a tiny home. That's super small. Yeah, it's pretty.

>> Okay. Uh, that does change a little bit.

That's That's tiny. >> So, what if we got something more reasonable? Let's say it's a two or threebedroom to where you could grow into it even with two kids, even if it was a little bit tight. What would that cost you?

>> Um, in this area, I mean, there's nothing. It would either need such a

large amount of repair that it's like really a huge undertaking. Um, like more

than just an average fixer upper.

>> So, what about one in good condition?

You don't have to do some HD TV show. be probably about like 350 >> or so. >> That's reasonable. And you're going to keep saving a down payment. Is 45 everything you have in savings? Does that include your emergency fund or is this just earmarked for down payment?

>> That's that's everything we have. Yeah.

>> Okay. That does change it a little bit, too. >> So, I would And what's your household income?

>> Um, yeah. So, right now with both of us, it's it's about 160 to 170,000 a year.

But if you know after we have a kid and and my wife would stop you know um

making an income right then that would go down to about I don't know 110 or so.

I mean it depends on with me getting a raise between now and then and whatever but it you know around 110 >> something like that. I would say you're on the path and I would just set the home budget that makes sense and then go, okay, well, how much more down payment do we need to save up to make this affordable to where it's no more than 25% of our take-home pay? And that I would base that take-home pay off of your income alone since you know that's the goal. >> Yeah.

And the good thing is your rent is not astronomical. Like your rent is not far out that I'd be like, you got to get out of this rent. You're paying 3,000 bucks a month for rent, right? You guys' rent is at a good spot and I don't think that I'd be interested.

I know it's not an actual tiny house, but I don't think I'd get into this tiny house deal. I think I'd ride the wave and just go, you know what? We're going to take the f instead of living five years in this 600 square foot house that basically is an apartment.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what we were thinking about. I I value the opinion. Thank you so much.

>> For what it's worth, our apartment is actually bigger than than the house. It's nothing crazy, but it's it's >> doesn't take much. 700 foot apartment.

You just beat the cottage >> for sure. >> So, I would I would go slow. There's no urgency or rush on this. And I would just stack up as much as I can while you have two incomes and no kids.

Now is the time. >> Yeah. >> And you might need to save up 100 grand or 150 grand to make this payment affordable for your solo income in the future. But that's what I would do.

I would aim for that 350 house and try to get there as soon as possible because Jade, like we know, it's a moving target. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Three years from now, that might be a 450 house. >> That's right.

And of course, we never want that payment to be more than 25% of your take-home pay all-in. That's thinking about things like homeowners, all of it.

So, that's the framework that we're working with. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. That does it for this hour of the show. George and I will be right [music] back with you before you know it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Heat.

Heat.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour and the number to call isle88255225

if you want to join the conversation and pose your question for the good of the group and for the good of America. Chris has chosen to do that. He's in Washington. What's going on Chris?

>> Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So I my wife and I we're new parents. Uh well relatively new. Our son's 9 months old. Um, super excited about that. Uh,

we made the decision to have her stay at home uh because [clears throat] daycare was too expensive and we're just trying to figure out um if you guys have any tips and tricks to uh you know, managing our money going forward and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success in retirement and setting him up for college and all that good stuff.

>> Yeah. So, what was she making before she

decided to stay home?

She was making about 75,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what do what do you make?

>> Uh I currently make 110 roughly annually

and then I have a side business that I run that brings in anywhere from 20 to 45 a year. >> Okay. So we'll just say that you're at

130. You feel good about that?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And so have you guys done a new every dollar budget with this 130? Because how much does that allow you to take home every month?

you know, that's that's been really really new for us. Um, and so, you know,

if I had to put a number on it, I mean, our we have our mortgage, we have no other consumer debt. Um, we've done a really really good job. Got all of our vehicles paid off and everything like that. >> Um, and so, you know, our mortgage is roughly 24,00

you know, 300 350.

>> Yeah. I don't think your mortgage is going to be the problem. I think

clarity. >> I'm wondering, it sounds like you have like a little bit of regret like uh should we have done this? Things feel tight. So, where is that coming from?

>> Yeah. I just I'm I'm so um analytical

when it comes to like looking at our budget and we've, you know, both worked really really hard coming out of, you know, roughly $95,000 in student loan debt, you know, over the past three years. And um you know, we've we've just

worked really really hard and I don't ever want to put our family in a place where we're in in need for money, you

know what I mean? And um we've done a really really good job of that. We have a bunch of money put aside already, you know, and um >> so you're following the baby steps to a tea.

>> Yeah, pretty I mean I would say so.

Yeah. >> You said that, but you didn't answer the question when I said how much you're bringing home every month.

Oh yeah. I mean we bring home probably

uh let's see uh 40 no 60 800 a month

roughly. >> So I'm going to challenge >> after >> I'm I'm going to challenge you to for your own good because you described yourself in one way and don't get me wrong it probably was the way that you were before you had [laughter] an eight-month-old. Um, you said I'm very analytical and I'm really on this, but the truth is right now you're actually not on your numbers. You're kind of guessing at them.

And I have a theory that >> the reason that you're feeling that uh that tightness or that feeling of like you don't like the way your money is feeling, I think it's more because you don't know exactly what's going on and you don't have a clear path and plan for it. That's why I asked about your your every dollar budget because if you look at that tonight with your wife once the baby's down >> once you guys have, you know, had something to eat and you say, "Okay, we're going to look at every dollar tonight. We're going to plug in our numbers.

We're going to log on HR and find out exactly what the check is and now we're going to plug in the mortgage, everything we think we're spending money on. What does life look like now with a 8-month-old? How much are we spending on diapers now versus when the baby was first born?" All of those things are going to give you a much clearer picture on what it looks like today with the new lifestyle that you're in today. And I think that's actually going to help you because 130,000 um where you live, I think you should be okay.

Now, don't get me wrong, to lose 75,000 a year is a lot of money.

Right. >> Right. >> And you're telling me that it costs $75,000 a year to daycare one baby?

That's not true.

>> No, no, it it wasn't much of that. It was, you know, more so, you know, I want

a a right where it was expensive to do daycare and b for the for the amount of money it was going to cost us, you know, she wanted to stay home and wanted to >> okay >> uh raise our son and be >> which is fine. That's fine. But the way you framed it was it wasn't worth it for her to go to work. You made it seem like it was more of a cost thing. So, it's just personal values.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you're right.

>> And that's fine. I think all of that though, what I'm trying to get you to is clarity. And I think if you can clearly say we're doing this because we value >> mom being at home with baby, that is a whole different conversation than it's too expensive, we can't afford, right?

So now you're talking about real things which is no this is a value of ours which knowing that is also going to reflect how you feel now about the budget being shorter because you've said no in our hearts we want this so now we are able to tackle a smaller budget or working with a smaller income. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just trying to get real. I mean, George, you know how it feels to have a eight-month-old at the house.

You're not making a newborn, a 2-year-old. Life is chaotic. And that's where you and your wife sitting down looking at the budget every month and just going, "Okay, I'm going to bring seven grand in this month and our mortgage is 2,400. We're going to have a,000 left over.

>> Yes, we do. >> Are you investing 15% out of every paycheck?

>> We are. >> Okay. And then beyond that, how much margin would you say you have at the end of every month? Or is it disappearing into random spending?

>> I would say more disappearing into random spending. >> I think that's what's making you feel out of control because you're analytical. You're going like the math ain't mathing. There should be two grand laying around and it's gone.

And it's amazing if you like to take take all the receipts of all the money you spent, it'll make a little bitty book of the reasons why we feel that way. And so that's where budgeting with the new every dollar with your bank connected the transactions are flowing in total transparency and accountability with you and your wife and then you might decide, oh, you know what?

We just need to up the budget line item to account for that instead of going red flag, red flag, you're overbudget. So I think I there's probably just some disongruity with like what you're actually spending versus what you think you're spending. Yeah, your life has changed a lot. And I mean, there's the kid and then there's Yeah, wife is at home. Moneywise, things have changed.

And it's just like George said, reflecting your your your line items to

updating your line items to reflect that change.

>> Yep. No, I appreciate that a And and that's something that we've actually embarked on recently is kind of combining our finances just listening to you guys and >> kind of buying into that buying into that idea of, you know, becoming a unit,

you know, and and we're, you know, working through those things. And so I I really appreciate the feedback. >> I love it. I think you're doing a great job and I think that you're a >> you're doing better than you think. >> Uh-huh. And you're a reflection of the fact that this whole thing is a process.

Like no one just in one day or in one listen or in one movement gets it all.

It is like building blocks stacking on each other and like you said, first we did the combined finance thing, then we did the debt payoff thing. All of that is stacking up and I just I think you're doing fabulous. >> Are you using a spreadsheet right now?

Are you using a budgeting app?

>> Yeah, we're using we're using a spreadsheet cuz that's that's uh >> How many times has she said, "Hey, can I look at that budget spreadsheet? That sounds fun." >> Uh zero. [laughter] >> Thank you. Final answer, your honor.

I I'm case closed on that. We're going to send you the brand new allnew Every Dollar for you to have something that not only would a wife like to look at, but now she doesn't have to say, "Can I see that spreadsheet?" You can just say, >> she'll open the app. >> She'll open her own app and be able to see it. >> There we go.

Proud of you guys. You're making progress, man. That's all you [music] can hope for.

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour the number to call is 888255225.

You call us up, we'll talk about your life and your money. Jacob is up next in Los Angeles, California. What's going on, Jacob? >> Uh, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so I kind of need some I guess some

direction in terms of what to do next in my life financially. Um, my parents

recently went through a divorce and so I kind of had to take over um as like the

main contributor to the household financially. I'm currently living with my mother and my younger sibling. Um, so

I'm kind of paying for mortgage, uh, you

know, all the insuranceances. Uh, >> why why is that? >> Why is mom not working?

>> Oh, no, no, she is. She is. So, um,

because, uh, you know, cost of living in California is insane. Um, I the way we

set it up is I pay for I say I want to

estimate like 60 to 70% of my take-home pay. Um, and then the rest is made up by my younger sibling and my mother. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 28 right now.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, when you say 60 to 70% of your income, tell us dollar-wise how much how much money is this costing you every month? Uh, I would say maybe around 28

to 3,000. >> Okay. So, you're spending 3,000 bucks kind of paying the the the things that make the house go around. And tell me again, explain to me again why mom is not contributing. >> No, no, she is. Um, but >> but how much is she contributing if you're contributing that much?

>> Right now, she's contributing maybe like 1500. >> And explain to me why that is.

Um, well, she doesn't really make much.

Um, so because I make the most in in the household right now, so I wanted to, you know, obviously >> So, did she ask you to take on the brunt

of this or was this something you sort of stepped up and went, "Mom, here's what I'm going to do." >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely stepped up.

I mean, it isn't fair for her to or for me to force her to try and find a job out of nowhere. Um, >> the scary part is it's not fair for you to prop up a lifestyle that's not sustainable for them. Cuz let's say you go and get married next year, you move out, you're not still paying all of their bills. >> Hey, how old's your sister?

>> Uh, my sister is 25. Um I guess to give

a little bit more information um so in

terms of the unsustainable lifestyle it it more or less is the reason we she got a job is because if me and my sister were to contribute you know 100% of our

take-home pay we would be able to afford you know all the groceries and you know everything else to make the to live. Um,

but because she as a, you know, wonderful mother as she is, she's like, "Oh, I don't want you or both of you to, you know, not have any savings for the future." So, she said, "I'm going to get a job to do it, but because >> objection. Wait a minute. Let me let me jump in here." Okay.

>> Couple quick quick questions. You guys live in Los Angeles, but it doesn't sound like it's for the reason of a career. Like, nobody's like, "Listen, I started my my firm here, and now this is where I'm at." It sounds like you guys are kind of making ends meet to use your terminology. Why are you still living in such an unsustainable to quote you and

inexpensive area?

>> Um well my dad's business was here so we all moved here and my mom does help with that. Um, even through the divorce, you know, it wasn't an ugly divorce. You

know, now it was one of those situations where, you know, they got married, you

know, out of, you know, necessity because they needed to help each other, >> but that money is not filtering into your lifestyle now because they're now divorced and the two children are grown.

So, my question stands, it sounds like if this is an unsustainable situation for your mom, and I'm saying your mom because the two kids are grown, like you're grown. Um, it sounds like she's got to decide where can she live that's not Los Angeles, California and and afford her lifestyle because here's my second part of this. You're 28, your sister's 25. Typically, the reason that

somebody would say somebody your age would say, "Hey, I'm living at home." is typically because they've got student loans, they've got bills, and it's cheaper for them to live at home than it is for them to maybe do something on their own. And in your case, that's not really the case because you're paying for your mom's life. And I understand that there's, you know, been something traumatic here with the divorce, but it still doesn't place that ball in your court. Do you see what I'm saying?

And so I think all three of you have to go, what does my life look like?

independent person? Cuz do you have debt? >> No, I have no debt. >> You have no debt. There's nothing that stops you from saying, "Hey, I'm going to go a further radius out from, you

know, Los Angeles, California, wherever that is, and I'm going to figure out where I can live to do a job that I can make more money doing and support my lifestyle." What are you earning now?

And what is your job now?

>> Uh, I'm a I'm an analyst for a film studio and I earn gross is around 80,000. >> Okay. So, that's great. That to me, $80,000, you're doing good. Like there's

got to be a life that you can have on $80,000. Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, Jacob, on my screen here, it says, "How do I make enough to take care of my mom?" Is that the ultimate question? Are you wanting to make more so she can stop working?

>> Yeah. Um, she's working right now to

help contribute, but obviously, you know, she's kind of getting up there in

age. I don't know how to put that delicately, but um but because she her

first language, >> she's turning 60, but she does have some

like health issues.

>> So, what is her plan for retirement?

Because right now, you just it's going to stunt your growth as an independent person to just well, I got to take care of mom for the rest of my life. I'm going to live at home. What if she lives to be 90? >> Now you're 58 and still propping up her life. >> Mhm. So, >> because she didn't prepare.

>> Yeah. That's because that's the kind of situation I'm in. Like she does kind of have like a very loose retirement plan.

I don't think it's as structured as I would like personally. >> What is it? >> But lay it out. >> Um so she so she said that her plan is to >> um well we we'll still live in this house that we or this condo that we have and you know she >> Did you say we like all of you will still be living together for her retirement?

>> No. No. My sister is um planning to move out and so it'll just be me and my mother. But >> this is not good.

This is not good. This is not good. >> Yeah.

But um but yeah, once she is old enough to get social security, she says she plans on finding like one of those um like I guess like apartments or whatever that is like income based or like lowinccome uh something like that and um

kind of live there. But I guess another piece of information is my parents do have a second property that's paid off and that's they're getting like rental income, but because of the divorce, they were debating whether or not selling it or just splitting. >> Do you know what it's worth? If they were to sell it, what would they what would they take to have to split?

>> Um, I think collectively if they sold it, they'd get maybe around a million.

>> Okay. So, she'd get 500,000 a and then have to take out fees and whatnot, right? >> Yeah. Is she getting rental income right now from this property?

>> Yeah. Yeah, right now it's already been paid off for years and they've been kind of >> How much is she making from that?

>> Um, now that it's split, she'll make around a thousand. >> And then what is she making from her job? >> Uh, right now she's only she's in like

elderly care, so I guess it's based off how many people she takes care of. Um, she's only taking care of one person.

Um, so she earns around 1,500 net, but

she says she is planning on, you know, assisting another person that would bring her income to me. >> Listen, I don't mean any harm. You got to separate yourself from the situation.

This is going to pull you under, dude. >> You're going the opposite direction by saying, "I'm going to work more so mom doesn't have to work because that becomes enabling >> and you're going to have to keep that up for the rest of your life cuz mom's not going to up and get a job 10 years from now if you decide to move out." >> Right. And right now you're paying, like to your point, you're paying 60 to 70% of the household expenses. She has no reason.

And that that that really puts um you in

a bad position. If I were your mom, I would be talking to ex-husband. I'd say,

"We need to sell this property because I need this $500,000 and I need it in my nest egg so it can grow for me for the next 10 years." >> And she still has to work for the next 10 years. That's right. Oh my goodness.

>> So, Jacob, we're basically telling you you to do everything opposite the way you're headed right now. And it's because we care for you. We care for your mom. We want her to have a great life. And currently, her loose retirement [music] plan is going to end up stunting your growth for the next decade or two or three. And so, we need

to end this codependence right now.

Otherwise, it's going to hurt both of you in the long run. So, sorry to hear [music] that, man. This is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music]

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[music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at88255225.

Jessica's up next in Nashville, Tennessee, right up the road. What's going on, Jessica?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help today?

>> So, me and my husband recently started listening to the podcast and really getting into finances, and we only have about $2,000 left on our credit card, which will be done within the end of the year. We're looking at our student loans, and we just don't know what to do. Mine are all kind of like little tiny like 2,000 3,000 loans whereas his

is like a giant >> $45,000 loan and we don't know if there's a difference and who we should tackle first. >> Okay. Well, I love number one that you guys are kind of on this road together.

You've decided it's important for you both to pay off the debt and you've decided that it's important to work together. So, kudos to that. Um, for this it really is just the the methodology of the debt snowball. And all that is is we list all the debt between the both of you in order from smallest to largest based on balance.

So, not payment amount, not interest amount, but by balance. So, right now, you're kind of already doing that. You've got 2,000 left on this credit card. And then what you do with these student loans is you both pull up your, you know, screen of your provider and you go through smallest to largest.

Like you said, yours are busted up in little bitty guys and so you list those smallest to largest. And the same thing with his. Is Is his a federal loan or a private loan? >> It's a federal.

>> Okay. And it's just one, right?

>> No, he had one loan that was going to go into collections and they told him that he had to consolidate. So one giant federal loan now. >> Okay. Gotcha. So that's going to be the final one that you pay. But the good news is because you've worked the snowball, you will have gotten back all those little bits and pieces of payments, so you'll be able to hit it with a big shovel. Um, what what's the combined amount that you have in student loans? >> I have about 65.

>> 65 and he's got 45.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And then uh what's you guys' combined income?

>> 100,000. >> Okay. So, you've got a little bit of a a journey here. You know, you've got 112,000 to pay off and you're making a h 100,000. Um, have you jumped on to every dollar? Because we have a really great financial road map that you can plug in all your numbers and kind of project what your payoff date is going to be and then you can project when you'll be on baby step three and how long that'll take. Have you done that yet?

>> We are on my every dollar. Um, the

premium expires today actually. We just sat down last night and all the numbers in there. >> How did you didn't pay for it yet, did you? >> No sir. This feels like a plant.

Jessica, did you call in on the day of the expiration hoping we'd give you every dollar? >> I promise I didn't. I just happened to look. >> It's fine.

Either way, we're going to give it to you. >> Yeah, we're going to give it to you. >> We're going to give it to you. So, hang on the line after we're done [laughter] and we'll help with that.

And what I love about Every Dollar at the bottom, you're going to list those debts with the minimum payment, with the balance, and it will list them all for you, smallest to largest. And it's a great way to keep track of how how much extra you're putting on that little one and when it'll be paid off. So, that's going to be a big help. But it really is, I think, psychologically motivating to see the little ones get knocked out.

$45,000 ahead of us." But you're probably also going to be making more money a year from now than you are, right? >> Yeah. Hopefully. >> Are you guys doing any side hustles or anything to supplement that $100,000?

>> He does. He does a lot of side projects on the weekends that probably bring about 400 in.

>> Oh, 400 a month every Oh, 800 a month.

Yes. >> Okay, great. Okay, good. So, yeah, I my recommendation I think that if you have debt, and this is not just for you, but anybody has debt, they need to be bringing in anywhere between 5 and 2,000

extra dollars. That for me is the >> 500 to 2,000. >> Yeah. At least 5,000.

But if you can get to 2,000, you're you're swinging for the fences. 500. And [clears throat] so yeah, I like that plan. And Jessica, the fun part for me, and maybe I'm a math nerd, I go, "Okay, how little can we live off of out of this 110?" And that might mean we pause investing.

It should mean that if you guys are currently investing, let's pause that to get some money back in our budget. And then with our take-home pay, we go, "All right, it takes us $2,000 to cover all of our basic bills.

>> Probably about 15 to 20 years.

>> That sucks. Can we agree? 15th or wait a

second. >> She's saying if she makes minimum payments on all the debt. >> Oh, minimum payments. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[laughter] >> But now now with Jessica's current plan, it's probably more like four or five years.

>> I think so. >> And the Jade and George plan is like, how do we do this in two years? Maybe two and a half. >> Mhm. >> And that means there's a gap. All right.

Instead of throwing a thousand at the debt, we got to throw 2,000. Yeah.

>> And here's what we're going to cut. And that's where the budget is going to be your best friend and show you the reality of where you're spending and where what can go. And here's a couple of freebies. I mean, are you guys getting a tax return every year?

>> Um, it's only like 300 bucks.

>> Two 300 bucks. Okay. I mean, you can look at that and see if you can get it down. Probably not. That's pretty close.

Um, what about investing? Are you doing any investing?

>> I only do the match my company does into my 401k. >> Okay. How much is that every month?

>> Uh, it's 4%, but I just started a new employer, so it hasn't even begun yet cuz I have to be there for 3 months.

>> Perfect. So, let's just not start that because that's going to free up hundreds of dollars that could be going toward debt. And I promise you, we'll get back to investing with a vengeance later on.

>> But what happens for most people, Jessica, is they go, "Well, I want the match, and therefore, I'm willing to stay into debt longer, and I'm kind of comfortable here." And then they do 3 or 4% for 10 to 15 years.

>> That's right. >> I'd rather see you do 15% 2 years from now. >> That's right. Next category, cuz I'm just trying to help you find money. I want this to happen fast. What do you spend every month on going out to eat?

>> Um, we have a budget of $50.

>> Okay, good. What about groceries? It's just the two of you.

>> It is um my husband does he's like a gym

guy, so our budget is about $800.

>> Okay, that's not bad.

>> Yeah, you might be able to do it a little less, but that's not bad. $800 for two folks. >> Get Get that like that boneless chicken thighs from Aldi. You stock up on those.

I don't know about a chicken thigh, George. >> Well, yeah, Jay's not [laughter] she's not dabbling in that world. I'm just I'm a big gym rat myself, Jade, if you can't tell. No, >> I could tell by your bulging biceps, >> but I do watch a lot of videos about protein for some reason.

I [laughter] don't know. I'm very intrigued by the lifestyle, Jessica. >> But the point here, Jessica, is we're going through the budget with a fine tooth comb. And this is, like I said, for anybody listening, withholding is a great place to start investing.

Look at that food budget. Um, cars, a lot of times people's opportunity is sitting in their driveway.

>> Um my husband's is a 2012 completely paid off. >> Okay. >> Um and then mine was gifted to me by my father. So I actually don't pay for it.

Um >> so that's paid off.

>> Yes. A 2018 Toyota.

>> Okay. Good. >> Another thing that's really uh people don't think about is insurance across the board. Reshopping insurance. If you go to ramseysolutions.com/checkup, we have a great coverage checkup. It'll take you just a few minutes to do the quiz. And I helped a friend here actually uh reach out to Xander. They reshoed their insurance and they had better coverage while saving 80 bucks a month. 80 bucks back in the budget.

[clears throat] So just doing something like that, Jessica, with homeowners auto across the board could save you a h 100red bucks, 200 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. And then there's the utility type stuff. You can go in, call your cell phone provider and say, "Hey, are you offering any deals if you still have cable in Baby Step 2?" >> Yeah. What are you guys paying for your cell phone bill?

>> I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? What are you paying for your cell phone bill?

>> Um, so right now ours is separate because I do own my phone and that should be knocked out by the end of the year, but mine is $87 a month and his is

60, but we plan on going to Mint Mobile where it's like 30 bucks a month.

>> I was going to say uh T has been a great sponsor of the YouTube channel and they're 25 bucks a month for unlimited.

>> You can't beat it, >> which is incredible. So that that's a big savings. Some people are just paying like 120 bucks a month for their phone plan, not even including the phone. So, just some ideas, Jessica.

Uh, along with Every Dollar, I'm going to send you my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to specifically read the margin is Breathing Room chapter. In there, I lay out a bunch of the ideas that Jade and I threw out and many more. Uh, just to get you going because we're pumped for you guys to become debtree.

>> Yes. I mean, we also made progress. We started with about $16,000 in credit card debt and we're down to maybe 2 3,000. I think it's 2400.

Um, so thank you guys so much. This was really helpful. >> Love to hear that. And you're right down the road in Nashville, so come see us for your debtree scream. Looking forward to meeting you guys and celebrating in person. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Every Dollar Premium and my book, Breaking Free from Broke. Hope those resources help you along the way.

More of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw. If you're enjoying the show today or any other day for that matter, do us a quick favor. The show is free.

What I'm asking you to do is free. Just hit the subscribe button, hit the follow button, leave us a kind review, share it with a friend, maybe it's a a clip or a highlight from the show, a full episode, tell them, "Hey, you got to check out this podcast." All of that helps us get higher up on the algorithms, and it's not for our own egos. It's so that we can reach more people who may not know that this show even exists. and we're trying to dis displace all the filth and nonsense out there in this toxic money culture and you guys sharing you're the best marketing plan we have.

Danielle is up next in Houston, Texas.

What's going on, Danielle?

>> Hi, good afternoon. How are you doing?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Awesome. Awesome. So, I'm in a little dilemma that I've almost been dealing with for almost a year with my vehicle.

>> Okay. Um, after attempting to make a repair, um, I started having the same issues. Now I need a new engine. Um, I

still owe about $65,000 on this vehicle

that I've only had for a year and a half. >> $65,000.

>> What kind of vehicle is it?

>> 60 It's $65,000. Um, and it's a Audi Q8

2019. Um, I did buy it used, so it was a

bad decision. I know now, but I do not

know what to do. Um, on top of that, I do have student loan debt about $32,000

and about $2,000 in credit card debt.

So, I'm looking at around $100,000 that I may debt. So, my question is, I don't

know what to do with this vehicle. Um, the warranty company only wants to cover about $7,000 for a total repair that

cost 20,000. So, I would have to come out of pocket. Um, I don't know if I

should get rid of this vehicle. I don't know how much they would give me for the vehicle, the dealership. Um, >> they haven't given me that answer yet, but >> I wouldn't give it to the dealership.

How what's it worth if you don't repair it? What's it worth if you were to sell it? >> Um, well, now it doesn't have an engine, right? I would have to get a new engine.

So, I'm thinking around $30,000. I I

honestly don't know. And it's going to cost7,000 out of your pocket, you said, to get it fixed?

>> No, the warranty company is willing to give me$7,000.

>> Why are they only willing to cover a third of it?

>> I have no idea. >> Either they cover it or they don't. I'm confused why they go, "Well, it's kind of our fault. So, guess we'll cover seven grand." >> They Audi made a Audi made a repair. Um,

two weeks later, I get my car. Well, I get my car back after a few months. And then 2 weeks later after I gave my vehicle back, I had the same issues, but now my engine went out.

>> I would fight this to where they covered the full 20k.

>> That's personally what I would do is I probably would not sleep and I would just >> badger them and wear them down until they go, "All right, she's a squeaky wheel. Let's just cover this repair." >> I honestly we've been doing liquor company since November.

>> Speak directly in your phone, Danielle. We're having a hard time hearing you.

Sorry. Okay. >> So, they pretty much told me that um I've been dealing with this since November of 2023. So, as you can see, we're >> What are you driving now? And >> well, um Audi gave me a laner vehicle.

So, I've been driving.

>> Yes, I still have the laner.

>> Do you have any money saved?

>> I do not have any money saved. Um I only got >> Yes. >> What do you make a year?

>> Uh 65K.

Girlfriend. Girlfriend. Girlfriend.

>> Goodness. What were you thinking buying us? How much did this car cost you? 70 grand. >> Yeah. Around 75 grand.

>> Oh. >> Do you? >> Yeah. I >> Okay. >> What's the payment on this amount? >> I know. >> Um the payment is high. So, I'm currently It's about $1,600 a month plus

>> girlfriend, 1600.

>> I'm paying. >> Yes. >> What's the interest rate?

>> 12%.

Jade's stretching. She need She might need to take a walk. >> I need to take a walk. >> I totally I totally got screwed.

>> No, you didn't get screwed. You chose this. Let's be honest. You chose it because here's I just want you to know I what I want to I need to be able to sleep tonight. And so I need to understand that had you not had any engine problems, let's just pretend this last year was gravy and you had no engine problems. You're just paying $1,600 a month on a $75,000 vehicle when

you make $65,000. >> I was hoping you were going to say, "Yeah, I make $200,000." I go, "Okay, this tracks." >> Did you know it wasn't good? Like the the first two months were you like, "D

um honestly, at first I was renting out that vehicle, so I didn't have those payments." Um >> you were renting it out like on Turo or something? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you fell for the scheme that I'm going to make money off this and they'll pay the payment for me >> pretty much. And then, um, my other vehicle that I had, it ended up getting stolen from me. So, I ended up using the Audi and then, um, >> someone stole your vehicle.

>> Yes. >> And they never found it.

>> They never found it. No. >> Here's what I >> Did insurance cover it?

>> Yes, I got insurance and GAP, so they did cover it. And what did you do with the insurance money? >> Yes. >> They didn't give me anything cuz I had still owed on that vehicle.

>> Oh my. >> It's not your first rodeo making bad decisions. >> Yeah, I know. So, this vehicle I I don't

I don't know what to do. >> So, tell me again. You said it before, but I was writing down. So, uh warranty so far is only going to pay 7K. What are you on the hook for?

>> I would have to pay the difference. They say the total cost would be about 20K just to get a new engine. Okay, so you're on. Let's play out both scenarios.

Let's say you sold it as is and you get 30K. That's what you told us. That means you're in the whole 35K where you need to go out and find $35,000 whether it's your own money or getting a loan. You need to go into debt another 35K.

>> Yes. >> So on paper, option B is a better option. Mhm. >> They're both terrible, but that's a better option right now is that you get the engine repaired and then you're able to at least sell it.

>> So, that's what I would do if I was in your shoes. Whatever you need to do to get this engine repaired, >> do that and then sell the vehicle immediately. >> But not to the dealer. >> Not to the They're going to screw you on this deal cuz they already did.

>> Mhm. >> So, you'd have to sell a private party to get the most value out of it. And I want you to talk to I want you to get with somebody on this because cars I know you've been trying to make it your thing, but I don't think it's your thing. And so find the wisest person that you know. I don't know if that's dad or big brother or a cousin or your best friend's brother, whoever it is.

Get with that person when it's time to sell this vehicle and when it's time to get this vehicle fixed because I don't want them taking you for a ride. Um, figuratively when it comes to the price anymore on this, I just feel like you've been screwed.

>> No, it's just the amount of it's only one. >> Okay. And so right now that would mean with your $65,000 income, you would buy no more than about a $30,000 car >> when the time comes in cash.

>> I still think that's you don't need to worry about that until you're out of debt completely. You get the student loans knocked out, the credit cards knocked out, you have an emergency fund.

Let's get the income up, then let's save up and pay cash. So, this could be years down the road, but for now, we need to figure out a way to get that 13 grand.

That might be you go to a credit union if you your credit's not shot already and go, "Hey, I need 13 grand to cover the difference to get this engine fixed to then do you have the the car loan through someone." >> Um, it's through um through Wells Fargo.

Yes. >> You might want to go to them and say, "Listen, you got bad collateral on this thing cuz it's only worth 30 right now.

I owe you 65. I want to get this loan paid off. It's impossible right now unless you guys loan me this 13K on a personal loan to get this engine replaced. >> Yeah, my credit's good. Um, I don't have an issue with that. >> Okay, then let's do it. >> I made a bad decision. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's what I would do, Danielle. And it's going to hurt. And God bless the USA when we can be $100,000 in consumer debt, but we have great credit by Gosh, look at that,

Jade. I got an 850, but I don't have 800 bucks in the bank account, and I'm $100,000 in debt. That is the American way. I can't even respond. I'm shookth.

>> She hath been shookth.

What a way to end this hour of the Ramsay Show. Uh, [music] thank you to my co-host Jade Warshaw, all the folks in the both in the booth keeping the show flow, including Kelly Daniel filling in on the producing who's done a fantastic job. Better than James, I might add.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

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[music] >> Heat. Heat.

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Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay [music] Show. to get involved in the call scene today. You can call 888255225

to get your name [music] on the line. I'm here hosting. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel.

George, are you ready to get it on and >> I've never been more ready. >> All right, let's do it. We've got Elaine from Indiana on the line. What's up, Elaine?

>> Yes. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, how can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so I am dealing with a little bit of financial infidelity um from my

husband >> and I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how we can move past that. The original incident, well, I mean, it's happened several times, but the kind of straw that broke the back was about a year ago. Um, I learned that he had borrowed about $14,000 from his

employer. Oh gosh. >> Oh, I guess they offered to pay off a debt that was trying to garnish his wages.

um and I found out >> um it was from he had started a business several years ago.

>> Um and so we're working on paying off a lot of the um consumer debt that was kind of left over from that. And so >> did you know about that debt before he got the loan to pay it off?

>> I did. And um we did get a you know a notice about the um they had about the lawsuit. It was a court date. He said he went to the court date, explained to them that the business had been closed and they kind of just said they were washing their hands of it and I didn't hear anything else about it. Um, >> so he made up that entire lie that they

>> um I think he went. I don't know that um

it was actually, you know, wiped clean.

Um I don't think you told me the full extent of it.

>> Well, clearly it wasn't cuz then they turned around and borrowed it from his employer, >> right? Well, somebody showed up that his work. um a deputy or something maybe and with the order to garnish his wages >> instead of doing the garnishment his employer paid it off and they took a lump sum out of each one of his checks.

Um and I didn't found out until about 9 months after his checks had been >> um >> so essentially he tried to avoid wage garnishment by having his employer do it for him. >> Mhm. >> Exactly. Until that was about a year ago.

I found out that and I actually, you know, we have kids and I I was done at that point. He's made a lot of stupid financial decision decisions in the past. And >> but before you go before you keep going forward, I want to keep pulling that first one. So he they were garnishing the wages out of his checks 14,000.

much cuz how did you not how did you not see that >> when >> um he got his own bank account separated

all of our finances. >> Okay. So finance is totally separate.

Okay. >> So, he he made a lot of moves to hide this from you.

>> Yeah. >> Like open another bank, then move the direct deposit to that new bank without your knowledge. And then have you guys had separate finances in the past?

>> No, they were together up until about

two two or three years ago. Um and ever since then, it's been Yeah.

>> So, you said this was not the first thing. Give us another example of something because this one's pretty extreme.

Um well, when he had his business open,

I saw um a bill in the mail for um you

know, one of his I guess suppliers or somebody and it was a lot more than you know I had anticipated and I asked him about it and he was like, "No, it's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong." It said would say he'd take care of it. And then finally when I call, they're like, "No, like we've been trying to get a hold of you.

This amount is correct. This equipment was never returned. your bills, you know, $15,000 >> as opposed to what you thought would have been 15,000 maybe a couple thousand. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yes. >> Have you asked him directly, why are you lying about all this? What's behind it?

>> He says that he knows that it stresses me out and so that he's just trying to take care of it himself without me having to know about it. >> So, take care of it means more lies, more hiding places.

>> Correct. And you've made it clear that's not how you're going to rebuild trust in this marriage, >> right? Yes. Um >> has he fully owned up to all this? Like where is he at today?

>> Well, that was a year ago. Um you know, when I said that I was done and I was tired of him lying and hiding things from me. Um and I actually moved in with

the kids with some family and we, you know, he cried and he'll never do it again. And um so we decided to work on things. So, we're living with family and collectively, you know, we have probably about $90,000 of debt from this previous, you know, company that he had started that didn't work out. Um, so we

said we'll tackle it together. Um, well,

a few weeks ago, I found out that somebody else had um tried to, you know,

sue him or whatever it was and he got another loan from this company.

>> Oh. >> This one was only $3,000.

>> Yep. and that um for the past three months he's been paying that off and it's paid off now and we were able to pay off the $14,000 one, you know, once I found out about it and I said, "Let's put everything towards it." And so we did that. >> So I thought everything was good after that. And then >> but you guys, you never you never really sat down and and counseledled your way through this. It was kind of just like, "Let's try it again. Let's try it again.

Let's try it again." And I'm not really >> very defensive. >> I you know, here's the thing. You're telling us this. I 100% believe what you're saying. Uh you said he, you know,

you left him and he cried and all this stuff. I don't know what the what the word is for that, but there's a word for the fact that he's making a mistake, but he's putting it on you by saying, "I don't want you to be stressed. I don't want you to be the one that's upset. This is too much for you." Like, there's a word for that. I don't know what it is, but I know I don't like it. Um, and

there's just part of this where Yeah.

You've outlined many instances and yet

he continues to do the same kind of crazy erratic behavior with his debt and with his money. Yeah, I would I would sit down with a counselor and in the

meantime, yeah, I would keep the money separate and I wouldn't do much more on this until you can sit down with somebody and say, "Here's what's going on. I don't know why my husband is continuing to do this behavior. Maybe I maybe I do have a hand in it. I'm willing to own if I do." Right?

Whether it's some sort of scarcity mind, the way he grew up, some some piece of him is feeling like he's got to control this and hide it from you. I don't know why, and I'm not saying that it's right, but I hope you guys can get to the bottom of it. And if it were me in the meantime, yeah, I would set some really clear boundaries, George.

with money because I got to keep our family safe. So, my question for you, Elaine, is do you earn any money?

>> I do. Um, and you know, combined we do

make a decent. I mean, we bring in about 135,000 >> a year. About 45 of that is from myself.

>> Okay. So, you're bringing in 45. So, what I would say is this. I'd say what would make me feel safe while we're in counseling is for us to put our money

into this account. and I will give you full transparency into what I'm doing with the money, but you you're taking

our money and you're putting it on debt and you're making payments and you're putting us in an unsafe space. Will you go to counseling with me? And if he says no, he won't and no, he won't combine the money, then now that's your that's your chance for you to take that to counseling and figure out what you need to do next cuz you can't control him.

>> Yeah. You you need consistent honesty from him over time and proof through actions. Those are the two things that will rebuild trust. And if he's unwilling to do that, that is him opting out of this relationship. So you need guys need to go through counseling and start to set those guardrails and boundaries and work towards healing.

>> [music]

[music] >> You're listening to the Ramsey Show. If you want to get involved, you can call in. It's a live show. The number is 888825-5225.

Christian will pick up and screen your call. Remember, this is a show about your life and your money. We're helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

That's what we're all about here. So, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Olivia in Ronoke, Virginia. What's going on, Olivia?

>> Hi. Uh,

yeah, so I called in just basically

because I feel like I'm experiencing a lot of disagreement in my marriage as far as finances go.

>> Tell us what happened. Um, well, we're both on the same page that we want to get out of debt. Like, we both agree that we want to get out of debt and we want to have more money in our bank account and more security.

Uh, I just I feel like I'm the one sort

of leading with that like gazelle intensity. And right now, I feel like

one of our roadblocks in front of us is my husband's car.

>> We both have a car. I have uh a more

reliable Americanmade car that it's up there in the miles, but it's, you know, one of those ones that's meant to last. And then he has a 20-year-old European car, and it's something that he got earlier this year after he wrecked his reliable car during a snowstorm. He paid in cash, which is great. We don't owe anything on our vehicles, but ever since he got that car, which I never I never wanted him to buy it.

>> It was a $3,000 car. Um, and I would say

considering how much we've spent, which I don't know exactly. He hasn't told me I can't access his receipts. He told me he does hasn't even been putting the receipts together with the rest of the cars and >> What does that mean? You can't access.

Do you guys not share a bank account? So you can't see. >> No, we do. We do. But like like I don't

have a place where all of this stuff is

just compiled like all of the receipts on what he has spent on car parts. He's a handy and he does a lot of the repairs himself, but he's probably done at least five or six repairs since he bought the car. >> Are these for fun repairs? Like is he like souping it up or is he needing to keep this thing alive?

>> Okay. So, you're also then then something also tells me you guys aren't keeping a budget because you if you were keeping a budget, you wouldn't need receipts. You would see the transactions coming through. Okay.

He went to Advanced Auto Parts, he went to Pet Boys, he you would see that come through. So, is that right? There's no budget >> as of right now. No.

And I've >> All the more reason to get into the budget. Okay, let's break this down.

>> No, I agree. I agree. >> You're like, he's spending way too much money on this $3,000 car. He's probably already spent more than $3,000 on the $3,000 car. Correct.

>> Maybe not. Maybe not quite. But we're in a position now where the car isn't

working to where he's comfortable driving it even to work. And so we're down to being a onecar family and he works 40 minutes away. >> Okay. And you want to sell this car?

>> I want to sell it. And we literally can't even afford. It's like $300 in parts that he needs right now and we can't even afford to buy that. >> Is it sellable?

If you sell it, what would you get? >> Or is it just scrap? >> If you sold it, >> if we sold it right now, we would get pretty much nothing. But he would if he fixed it up, he might be able to get a similar price as what he bought it for.

I'm I'm not 100%. >> So, you're saying right now he would get 500 bucks. But if I put 300 bucks in, I could get three grand for it. >> And you wouldn't get three grand.

You'd break even. You'd get the money back that you spent. Okay. So, we barely we would technically we wouldn't break even after everything he spent.

But >> if you have >> Why don't you guys do a little math on this? Go back and do a little do a little detective work. See what's been spent on this car and then you guys can make the best decision. Figure out what needs to be done.

Add factor that in and then figure this out. This is the smallest of the concerns in my mind. Uh this car, >> this is not what's holding you guys back right now. It's just the ankle biter that's in front of your face.

So, what's the real thing holding you back?

>> Yeah. So, it I would say his stubbornness um is what's really truly holding us back. I tried to discuss this car with him yesterday and it just turned into an argument. >> Let's say we never talk about the car again. What else are we doing? Cuz just not dealing with the car is not the thing that's going to get us out of debt. So, what are the steps you're taking?

So, I'm pretty much the only one doing anything to get out of debt. I have I mean, I don't know. He's He works.

>> What are you doing? What are you doing to get out of debt? Let's talk about you. >> Yeah. So, I am working

I I'm a full-time mom, so I work on the weekends to clean for somebody. And I've been setting aside that cash for a little while. and I don't even have my $1,000 yet because we keep running into things and I keep having to fork over my emergency fund because there's no money in our bank account. >> Let's halt right there. There's a couple of things that I hear that is really going to help. Number one, um there's a

lot of division here. There's I'm doing this, he's not doing that. This is my emergency fund. I don't have access to the receipts. Like, there's a lot of division that I hear. Um that lets me know there's something there's something missing here. So there's some marriage things going on where you guys are feeling separate from each other. You're not able to talk to him. He's not able to hear you and probably vice versa. So

I would want to do some detective work there and maybe get into some counseling to figure out what's what's the hold up there. Number two, I think the problem that you're running into financially with when you are setting aside money and it's getting eaten up, it's you don't you guys don't have a budget. So there's no way to know what's coming.

There's no way to plan for it. So before you get off the line, George and I are going to get you hooked up with every dollar because George, I think that's really the issue here. Um, at least financially the issue. >> Yeah. Well, tell us about your take-home pay. What is the take-home pay for the month with your cleaning on the weekends, him working full-time? What comes in?

>> If I worked four weekends a month doing

this one cleaning job that I'm doing, I would be bringing in uh let me just pull

my calculator up really quick. >> Mhm. I've never actually done this math.

So, this is exciting. >> This is great. This is part of it for everybody listening. Knowing these details, >> you got to know your numbers. >> You know your numbers. Then you know what you need to do in order to get where you want to get.

>> So, in just four days out of the month,

I would be bringing in $720.

>> Okay, great. >> What does he bring home every month?

>> That number, I don't even know. Okay, so like he has so many medical issues like with his back, You see you have access to the bank, right? What does the bank statement say? Was his income?

>> Yeah. When you see his check roll through, >> is it the same check every month?

>> No. The average I would say that we get

so like weekly is between $3 and $500 a

week. >> Okay. So maybe 2,000 like 2,000 a month.

>> Why is he making so little?

>> So part of it was they cut his hours back at work because business was slow and then they recently brought his hours back up. And when that happened, he also got uh basically I what I would call a

raise. They allowed him to start receiving commission because she's an incredible worker. He's a hard worker.

>> What does he do for work? >> He does. >> He's a chimmy sweep.

>> Um but then he threw out his back pretty much right when that happened. He has had back issues his whole life and he probably needs surgery one day, but he's he'll miss work because of stuff like that. Like this isn't just the first time it's happened where he tears his back out. It happens I would say [clears throat] once or twice a year where he misses a few days of work because of it and then there's like sickness and all those like normal life things that throw that >> things he needs a new job.

>> Yeah. Is it fair to say that he can't be a chimney sweep anymore? I mean when you said once or twice a year for a couple of days at first I was like that's I mean you get a cold and you're out once or twice a year, right? The people in the audience are like yeah Jade. So there's part of me that's like how big of a deal is this? like we're we're not losing weeks of work, you know, every

couple of months. It doesn't sound like it sounds like it's a day here, a day there.

>> I'm He needs to make more money. I'm with you on that. He needs to make more money. You need to make more money.

You both need to earn more money. Um I agree with you there. I think >> here's Can I just be honest with you what I think, Olivia? I think you're frustrated and rightfully so.

And sometimes when we get frustrated, it's easier to look at the other person and go, "Here's what they're not doing." But I think this is both of you. I think there's something that both of you I think there's more that both of you can be doing to make this better. Even something as simple as knowing the numbers, right? And in these types of situations when you are married, here's the thing.

You can't control what he does. You can control what you do.

But at the end of the day, Olivia can only control Olivia. So here's what you can do. You can get the every dollar budget. You can say, hey, let's do this together. And if he doesn't do it, you can still put the budget together. You can tell him, "Hey, for baby step one, I think we should save $1,000." And if he doesn't want to do it, you still save $1,000. Like Olivia can be on her game and lead by example until your husband starts to get on his game. This is the Ramsay Show.

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at8825-55225.

You call up and we'll try to give you the right next step for your life and your money. Marcus has chosen to do so over in Denver. What's going on, Marcus?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> Hey, so uh recently engaged. We are going through uh some premarital process, some workbooks, and uh some finance questions that I'm not sure entirely what to do. Uh I know the rule is uh when you get married, then you combine your finances. Uh I currently have about $100,000 saved up for a down payment on a home.

uh she has about 80,000 my fiance has about $80,000 in student loans and 10,000 on a car. So I know I could I could pay that off instantaneously uh when we get married and kind of push the house down the road. Uh she's not necessarily totally on board with that. I'm just not sure what to do with that when uh when we say the ideas.

>> Why do you think she's not on board with it?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah, it definitely is.

cleaning up a mess ahead of time any

other personal mess, you can't make perfect before you get married. Do you know what I mean? You don't feel the obligation to fix it completely yourself before you come to them. Like, we're imperfect people and we make mistakes.

And so, I think when you frame it in that way of why are you categorizing

money in a completely different light than all of the other aspects of our marriage where we're basically taking each other as we are and we're working together to go forward. I think when you put it into that framework, it kind of changes the way you think of it and you're like, "Oh, yeah. Okay, that makes more sense. You're taking me with my mistakes.

You're taking me with my flaws. And we're working together to improve ourselves in our marriage >> and accepting, you know, that blessing of, wow, this person worked really hard to save this money. And they're willing to use that to give me a clean slate. I mean, not to get theological, but that's a beautiful picture of the gospel.

Beautiful. We came in with all the debt and he's got an unlimited savings account. He's like, I got you. And it's like, uh, I can't accept this.

I need to [laughter] work for it. Like, there's a piece of that that exists.

>> That's right. >> So, there's also that piece that she's feeling of he works so hard for this.

But the truth is, if you looked at a cons list of okay, what she's coming to this marriage with 100 grand. You look at the pros list, >> her, >> you know what I mean? Like that outweighs [snorts] any level of debt. And you guys working together, >> this is going to be like a blip in your lifetime where you look back and like, oh, remember we cleaned up that debt real quick and then we started building wealth together?

And yeah, it delayed our our home buying by, you know, two years. >> Who cares? >> And big whoop. And so I I think this is harder for her to grapple than you because it sounds like you are like, "Yeah, I'm willing to go ahead and pay off the debt and we'll restart the down payment process." >> And then, you know, for her, I mean, and I hope she does listen to this call.

The the flip side of it, which is the pretty obvious, is it's way better to have someone who says, "Oh, yeah, it's just money. like I'm happy to pay this off and start, you know, my money is your money and your debt's my debt and I'm happy to be one with you on this and well, we're paying it off together with the money that we have once we get married. Um, that's a lot better than having a jerk that's like, "No, you got to pay off your debt. I'm not marrying you until you pay that debt." You know what I'm saying?

And if you were like that, she wouldn't accept that either. So, it's like, if you have to choose between A and B, I'm choosing A with flying colors.

>> All right. Well, you know how us guys roll. We uh we're very direct and to the point, so I'll try to frame it a little bit more differently. So, >> have her watch this call. Also, I'm wondering what will your household income be once you guys get married?

>> Uh once we get married, uh a year's time, I'll uh I'll gross 220 and she'll be about 55 to 60.

>> Ding ding ding, my friend. So, think about this mathematically. If you want to help her out, just go to a piece of paper, napkin math, and go, "All right, we're going to pay your debt down. Leaves us with 10 grand.

We still need a little emergency fund, maybe." Okay, we make 275 at that point. How quickly can we save up 100 grand? Probably eight or nine months. >> Yeah, pretty quick.

>> And so I think showing her how little of a problem this really is, it's not derailing your home ownership dreams for a decade. >> Nope. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll try to frame it differently. >> Yeah.

Have you guys gone through Financial Peace University as part of your premarital? >> Uh, we haven't. We're we're doing a couple workbooks. Uh we haven't done FPU yet.

>> If I gifted it to you guys, would you go through it? >> Uh I would uh pay for it because I appreciate your guys' services. >> Oh, that's so kind. Well, I I can't let you do that today.

But you know what you can do? You can pay it forward. You can get it for someone else, but I'm going to gift that to you today, Marcus, cuz I'm I'm a Marcus fan. And I think Financial Peace University is a huge part of premarital counseling.

It doesn't encompass everything with premarital counseling. Obviously, there's a lot of other pieces, but as far as finances go, I cannot think of a better way to get on the same page, learn that language by going through all nine lessons together. Cuz me trying to convince someone else about the thing I'm excited about. I'm like, Jade, you got this guy Dave, he's like, "Sell the car." And you're like, "What is turn what happened?" >> I know.

>> So, that's a very different vibe. And that's why I encourage couples, whether it's premarital, post, whatever, go through Financial Peace University, if you're trying to get someone on board, >> and it's it's the most cost-effective way to make your marriage better and build wealth together. >> I agree. I concur. We nailed it. All right. Alex is in Chicago up next.

What's going on, Alex?

>> Hi, guys. Can you hear me?

>> Yeah, loud and clear. Okay. So, um yeah,

my my main question is um I'm debating

whether I can leave my job in December

or if I should sign up for another like

little group of second shifts for um

kind of getting a head start on my emergency fund. >> Okay. So, there's no debt. You're working on an emergency fund. Is that what I understand?

>> Okay. So, um, starting in November, I

started paying down about $82,000 of

debt. I, um, it was it was 72. By the

time I started the Ramsey plan, I had a total of 82. Okay.

>> And now I have 19.4.

>> Nice. >> And at the end of the year, I should have about 5.5. Okay. And if I quit my

job in December, my debt payoff will be

the same um in February.

>> Okay. >> Um I'm thinking about keeping it for

um like a head start on my emergency fund, but I'm also like completely exhausted and hoping kind of like less.

>> Are you saying just quitting your second job? Are you keeping your full-time job?

>> Yeah, so right now I work about 52 hours a week. I work 40 and then I work like

an extra four hours a week and this is

three times a month for my So I work about 44 hours um and then I work an extra eight. >> Is it the work or the type of work? Is it the Is it the fact that you have an extra job or is it the nature of the second job? It's more the nature of the second job because um I'm a therapist in an acute

care setting. Um and it's like a very physical job and I'm like >> what do you make from it? >> Super tired. >> What do you make from it? >> Um yeah, so my base pay at my primary

job is 4.3K and I do week I work weekends on my

primary job. So, I have 5K with my

weekend pay and then with my second job I do um 5.6 and then I do work overtime

at my primary job like 5.9. >> Wait, your second job is bringing in more than your full-time job.

>> No, I'm just explaining um that I

actually like that's my monthly income incrementally as I add on more hours.

Oh, so you're making an extra 600 bucks from the side job.

>> Got you. >> Um, it's about 250 net per shift and I

work about eight shifts every 3 months.

>> So, um, and go ahead. I I'm just trying

to understand just give us really clear what you bring in from the side job every month because what I'm getting at what I'm getting at here is if you're telling me it's the nature of the job that's the problem and it's giving you 1,200 extra bucks a month or 600 whatever that is I'm pretty sure you could probably >> 750 >> perfect I think that you find another job and replace that income cuz a lot of times the burnout is not on the the hours itself it's the job that you're doing during those hours.

>> Yeah, if you did something that was more enjoyable, even less, you'd be okay. But I wouldn't just slow down just yet. You're so close. Keep the gazelle intensity up until you're through baby step three. But I do think we need a shift in the meantime. Just shift the plan a little bit. This is the Ramsey Show.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 2 Corinthians 12:9. My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me. In a

left turn, JK Rowling once said, "Anything's possible if you've got enough nerve." >> I like that level of persistence.

>> George, you got some nerve. >> That's me getting discounts. That's my version of that. I've got enough nerve to ask for the discount. >> Listen, I've watched you in these breaks try to get these discounts on these Seinfeld tickets. >> That's right. I If anyone's got the hookup, I refuse. Jade's like, "George, just go. Just pay the pay the stub." I'm like, "I'm not going to let the scalpers win. Not on my watch.

>> I'm going to get these tickets at face value if it's the last thing I do." >> Waving the white flag. >> That's my That's my latest conundrum. If you're wondering what's happening in the world of George, it's a good deal.

>> Yeah. All right, that's fun. Let's go to Joan in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Joan? Make us happy. How can we help? >> Well, hi. Thank you for taking my call.

I have a situation where I have a couple

of options, but I really don't know what to do. I'm 86 years old.

I have only social security.

I own my own home. I own the car, my

car. >> Good. >> But I have about almost $30,000

credit card debt. >> Oh my goodness.

>> I know.

I tr have making minimum payments, but

I've only left with maybe

$100, $200 a month to eat, put gas in

the car. Now, I do have um help

from a daughter and an ex-husband

that feeds me, you know, as I need it. if I

make a suggestion, but I it's

embarrassing that I don't want to.

>> I could I I think about selling the car.

It's 17 years old. I won't buy another one, but I'm >> pretty much going to be grounded.

>> What's the car worth? >> Which um Well, it's a crown victorious.

>> I don't think that's going to make a dent in your credit card debt. I'd rather you keep the car to get around.

>> Uh yeah, true. and or sell the house.

That's what I want to know. >> Oh boy. >> And and get a get an apartment.

>> Well, the problem is right now you have a fixed expense with this paid for house, >> right? >> So, if you sold it to pay off your credit card debt, that leaves you with an expense that's ongoing and increasing. And with your social security, I don't know that you're going to be able to afford the payment of the rent. >> How much do you get every month?

Um 111.98.

>> Okay. >> Almost a,000.

>> So about 1,200 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. >> And what are your monthly expenses right now?

>> You're saying you have 100 bucks left over. So you need about 1,100 bucks to live or thousand?

>> No. No. I the reason I'm in credit card

debt is I always need about $200 more

and so I use the credit card and then I'll start paying the minimum payments and then the interest starts hitting on them and they bill build bills. Now the

last two or three months I've I had like

almost $3,000 in um car repair and some

other $700 to the dentist. Yeah.

>> And so >> you just have no cushion. You have no cushion to pay for anything that comes up beyond your 1,100 bucks a month,

right? >> And unless I beg it from either your daughter or an ex.

>> I'm sorry. >> Goodness. I'm so sorry, >> John. This is not a fun place to be.

What is your house worth?

>> My health? >> Your house? What's it worth?

Well, what do you mean by that?

>> If you sold it today, what could you get for it?

>> Oh, the house. Okay. Oh, the house is

probably worth 195 to maybe 250.

>> Okay, that's a big >> But on e on either side, the houses

have built [clears throat] around me and they're worth 600 and 500,000.

>> Why is yours so low?

Yeah.

>> No updates. >> Is it in rough shape?

>> No, mine is just old. When I came here

21 years ago, >> Oh, they built a bunch of new houses around you. >> Yeah, they built everybody around me and I don't have an HOA and everybody else.

>> Are you at the point where you could move in with your daughter?

>> Well, I could, but I'm not too sure about

that. you know, personalities. I mean, it's kind of it would be um I I have um

some health problems, but they're under control. >> Well, the problem is, let's say if I snapped my fingers and got you out of credit card debt, you're going to be back in $30,000 of credit card debt because you're using the credit cards to to float your life and expenses.

>> Well, I promised her that from now on, I would ask her after if I had to charge

something. But you're still behind 200 bucks a month, which you're using credit cards for. You told us. >> So, you've got your That's not going to change anytime soon. >> You've got your daughter, and do you have other kids or is it just her?

>> Um, yes, but that wouldn't be possible.

>> Okay. So, your daughter has said, "Mom, let me know before you charge this credit card. Tell me, and I'm going to try to help you out, basically." Right.

>> Yes. So, like you said, it's embarrassing and it's tough, but your options are you either reach out to your daughter and you say, "Hey, you told me that this lifeline is here, and the the truth is I

need $200 every month in order to be able to live and not spend any more on this credit card. That $200 will help me make my minimum payments and not go over." If you said that to her, is she

on board and to say, "Okay, I'm going to help you in that way." And it and then because the other option is we might have to look at this house, which doesn't really make sense because of the

cost of living today. Like there's not really an option. >> I know. >> You know, >> that's what Yeah, that's one thing that's made it gone up more.

>> Well, um Okay.

>> Your expenses are 1,400 bucks and you're bringing in 1,200. That's the truth at the end of the day, right? >> Because you're going 200 bucks into debt on the credit cards.

>> Yes. >> So, we need to find a way to either lower our expenses somehow or increase our income. I don't know. We're going to find a way to increase income.

>> I wrote down every penny I've spent this

past month.

>> Mhm. >> And >> could you downgrade in house? Is you know, if you sold it for 250, could you go buy a place for 200?

I'm not sure in Florida right now. I mean, >> or even an apartment by the clo.

>> No, it's a house. >> I'm saying could you downgrade to an apartment?

>> Oh, well, I could go. Yeah. I mean, I I

could, but I'm 86 years old. I mean,

>> I know, but we also didn't set ourselves up for a bright future in retirement.

>> No. >> So, this is part of it is we got to deal with the ramifications. I was a single mother since I was 19 years old with no

no child support and I worked until I

was almost 80.

>> What were you doing for work? >> I mean I was a lot maybe I better not say I I

worked at a pharmacy technician.

>> Okay. Is there something you could do to make a little bit of extra money right now? Are you able to get around and do that?

>> Oh yeah, I get around. I mean,

um, I >> I think we might need to find a little part-time job to to clean up this debt and increase our income >> if you're able-bodied. It's not fun, but this might be your only option other than selling the house and downgrading to an apartment that you pay cash for, which allows you to clean up the credit card debt, lowering your monthly expenses. >> Right. Well, I have leukemia. I've had

it for 21 years. I don't really have a I

really don't have a high uh energy level

and I have a dog and the dog I was going

to tell you the expenses the dog cost.

The dog was the biggest expense.

>> I bet I know I got two little French bulldogs and they're the biggest line item in my budget right now. So Joan, I'm so sorry. >> It was 18 $181 for the dog

>> every month.

>> No, just this month.

>> Just this month. Oh, Joan, I'm so sorry.

You have been through it. I would I would definitely look at downgrading a house and going to an apartment you pay cash for, getting rid of the credit card debt. If you need to rehome the dog, I'd rather you eat before the dog. So, that's the hard [music] truth. I hope it helps and I hope your your daughter or ex-husband can help. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. Thank you to Jade [music] Warshaw, all the folks in the booth, and you, America.

We'll be back before you know it.

Heat.

Heat.

[music]

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## 123. Own Your Choices, Starting Now | April 24, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:35:08 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the [music] Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Delony. We are taking calls from you all hour long.

We're headed out to Seattle, Washington, [music] where we have Shelby on the line. Hey Shelby, what's going on? How can we help today? >> Hi.

Um yes, I'm just calling and wondering if the way my [music] fiance is splitting the finances with us with me, um is the right way? >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> I can already tell this is going to be a fun call, Shelby.

>> Have you listened to our show before?

>> Yes, I have and I actually listen to you guys always and on like a Jade I I

follow you guys religiously, so yes.

>> Okay, so whatever answer we give you, same team, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right, good. All right, let it rip. >> Uh so, long story short, I'm my fiance

are blended family.

Um we do own a home together.

Um I have three kids, he has one. I my

ex who passed away uh years ago left me in a financial situation where I did have to file bankruptcy before I got to my fiance. I then built myself back up, got myself, you know, a very six-figure paying job,

you know, moved throughout. And now we

have one joint checking, but the mortgage is the only thing that comes out of that, and then everything else Venmo is.

>> Interesting. Okay, your phone's breaking up a bit. Make sure you're somewhere where your phone's not breaking up. >> You said you Venmo each other?

>> Yes. >> All all hot relationships stay hot through Venmo. >> [laughter] >> So, here's There's some things going on here that might be outside of your belief system,

but I'm just going to say it because I try to give the advice that I would do in my own life and that I think is something that would really help you. Um so, you've got the one account, all the money goes into it because both of you are paying for the mortgage. And then who pays for Who pays for the other stuff?

>> Well, so the one only the mortgage pay money goes into that one account.

>> Right, but that comes a little bit from both of you, right? >> Yes, it does. And then >> it half and half or >> Yep, it's half and half. >> Okay. And then and then tell me how the rest of the bills and and kids stuff and how that's divided up. >> So, it things like internet, power,

garbage are half and half. Um groceries,

we've we go back and forth on. Well, you

have two more kids than I do, so maybe you should pay for a little bit more.

And I'm like, well, you knew how many kids I had coming into this >> think it should be? How do you think it should be? >> I think we should I think we should each have our own accounts for spending and fun and leisure, and then we should combine the rest of our finances and majority of our finances and pay all the bills from one account. Um he is the

father figure in my children's life because their father is no longer around. >> How long has he been around? How long have you guys been in this in this relationship together? >> Three years. >> Okay. And when's the wedding?

>> That's a good question. Don't He wants to wait until we've been engaged for 2 years before we get married.

>> Why? >> Oh, wow. >> I don't know. >> Is it Are you Is Is this like level two in his test?

>> I I feel like it. I mean, and I've watched your show down many times before and I'm just like, you proposed. Why?

And he's like, well, I just I want to make sure >> That you're the one? >> change. Yeah, and that's what I said. I was like, >> That you don't change? Here's the 100% guarantee. Both of you will change a million. My wife's on version like 41 of the idiot 24-year-old she married. Thank God, right? I'm glad I changed.

>> doesn't mean and now I'm considering you for marriage. That's [laughter] not what the ring means. The ring is we're going to get married. I have decided you are the one I'm going to marry.

>> Yeah. The engagement is just simply a planning period to have the party.

That's really all [laughter] it is.

>> All right, so >> I agree. >> Let me ask you this. How much of cuz I want to honor this.

How much of your concern about

Um, I need to have my own on the side

here. How much of that stems from the absolute mess you were left when your first husband passed away? >> Um, in the beginning I was terrified to join any type of finances with him because my late husband did significantly put me in a bind where I like could barely feed my kids. But now that I've gotten to know this man and I see him and he runs his own business.

Um, you know, I see the dedication and work that he puts in every day and that I I'm like, okay, yes, I

am now comfortable with this. However, I would still like my own account for like getting my hair done or my nails, you know. >> I I I'll still tell you I I think the the the nerd work, the research data on this confirms it. Um, what what we've been teaching for more than three decades.

All of it goes into the same boat.

>> Mhm. >> And together you'll have the conversation about hair and nails and haircuts and shampoo, like all of that stuff. I have to tell you like just as a husband of a wife of almost a quarter century.

You're worth more than you're getting right now. >> Yeah. >> You're worth more than than than being in a in a in trial period number two.

You're worth more than No no no marriage I've ever heard of.

I'm sure they exist and I I I I get a

I get a sample size of the ones who are in crisis, right? I've never heard of a successful marriage where they're Venmoing and bickering over who you like

it colder so you have to pay more of the electric bill. You know who does that?

19-year-old roommates who share an apartment. >> Yeah. >> Not people who are ride or die till death do us part.

Like making a life together that they both want to be awesome.

>> And I think that's part of the I I think exactly what John said is part of the problem. There is a very shallow commitment here.

And because of that, I think you're you're experiencing that. It's like I'm only going to go so far in and you have your reservations as well that you're only going to go so far in. And I actually think it's a wonderful thing that you're not combining money right now um because you're not married and this thing even if you were the most solid engaged couple ever, I would still say, "Hey, right now you don't need to have your money combined cuz the deal is not done." Um but I don't hear like a super

solid engaged couple um and so the the

reasoning still applies. Now is not the stage to combine money. I understand that you guys are all living in the same household and probably while you're in that scenario, yeah, having a fund where you both kick in your parts for the rent or for the mortgage, that probably makes sense for um how you're [clears throat] choosing to live at this moment, but I wouldn't I wouldn't combine money until you are married and I would push for marriage. >> Yeah. >> Because well, let me let me caveat that.

I would not push for marriage if you don't think this is the guy, but if you're like, "This is my guy. I believe in him. I trust him. I trust that we're going to grow together and change together and we're going to be able to get on the same page. Yes, get married.

But, if you're having reservations, and I want to say this because you said I got burned before, the calls that John and I get where people have been burned before, there were red flags.

There were red flags, and there were little behaviors that was like, "Uh, that doesn't feel right." And there was just this um more and more of a of a separation that occurred. And so, I want to tell you, if you can create a relationship that from the beginning, there is transparency. Everybody's involved. Everybody We may not think about things exactly the same or have exactly the same values, but we're both very, very interested.

It's our priority to show up for one each other for one another. So, if he values something, I have to show up and show, "Hey, I care about it, too, just because you care about it." And vice versa. And if you don't sense that or feel that or see proof of life in that area, you [music] need to consider that deeply because, John, these are the things Red flags are red for a reason.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Alrighty, back to the phone lines where we have Jonathan who's in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Hey Jonathan, how are you doing today?

>> Hey Jade, hey Jonathan. Thanks for the call, I appreciate it. >> You bet. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so my question today is just how do my wife and I buy a house with a mortgage payment being around 25% of your take home pay and the situation that we're in. I'll give you like a little little quick details to see if that's cool with you. >> Yeah. The more the merrier.

>> Um, so Awesome, awesome. So, we've been renting for 7 years. We're debt free. Um, we got debt free last last May actually.

Um, and then um, we do have our three consecutive expenses. Uh, so we follow y'all's plan and the dilemma is Um, I get paid 46,280 a year.

year I brought in like 55 with overtime.

My wife makes 8,000 a year just because she's a stay home mom and she has like a side gig with [clears throat] the church cuz you know, she like leads worship and stuff. >> Uh-huh. >> So, combined like 55 just base salary. I

could get more with overtime, but the like the dilemma is I'm really like a job where I like it's kind of a dream job. So, it's kind of like I could leave and go find something making more, but >> You like it. >> to. I like it.

And so, and my wife, I don't want her to lose her job cuz again, we like it. And so, I'm just we don't know what to do. But we we want to own a home, and I just feel like we're stuck.

That we could have it all, all at the same time, just how we wanted it.

And every one of us runs up against that at some point.

>> That's true. Very true. >> to have these great values. I want to follow my faith convictions. I want to follow my educational convictions. I want to follow my my the follow, quote unquote, my passion working at a place that I believe in, that I like, but only pays me this much money. And it runs up against this awful thing called math.

>> Yes, exactly. That's where we are. Yeah.

>> And so, you you're you're going to have to ask yourselves, what do we value more? Homeownership or me working at a place where I feel valued? Um I don't

they're paying me as good as they can. I trust that's that's happening. Um I love my work environment. Or a value of my wife stays at home and takes care of our kids cuz we that's a value for us. Um and if the if those two values are immovable, then that means we're going to be renters because those two values are that important to us.

Or if we want if we value homeownership above all things, then I'm going to work a job that it may not be my favorite work environment or I may not love, but it's going to provide this kind of life for us. Or my wife is going to in 1 year when the kids are old enough to go to school, we're going she's going to go full work full time and you get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, no, I'm I'm definitely following you, for sure. >> And I hate it for you, man. All of us face it. Um I hate it for you.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I said the dilemma, yeah. What you said. >> It's a um it's something to think about.

And I like what John said, just because you make a choice now, it doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. Because to his point, when you say yes to one thing, you you're you're automatically it's it's an opportunity cost.

But, yeah, there's a there's a future that maybe that doesn't work for you guys anymore. And then you look up and you go, you know what? I I am ready to move on into a different career or see how I can expand. And she might think, you know what? I've been staying at home for x amount of years, I'm ready to get out there. So, there's no permanence in

any of these decisions. And home ownership is always there waiting for you. It's not If you say to me, Jade, I really want to buy a house, I'm not going to say to you, great, that's impossible. I'm going to say, okay, with the choices that you've determined, your timeline is just a lot further out than other people's.

And you're going to have to be very intentional about getting there. And just know, hey, what might have taken somebody else three or four years could take you a decade. And if you're fine with I don't know how old are you?

>> Uh so, I'm 30. My wife is 27.

>> O- Okay. So, if you think, hey, we're not buying our first house till we're in our 40s, that's your choice to make. And

that's your road if you want to walk it.

I you know, folks call in here all the time, and they love their careers, and there's not a a strong upside financially. And I just go, okay, you're going to be in that Camry life. You're going to be that used Camry life. And that's okay. If that's what you love, and you get most of your joy out of the work that you do.

>> Here Here's the thing I want to make sure you hold, though, okay? Um >> Yeah. >> I don't want you to feel like this world that you and your wife live in is happening to you.

I want y'all to And it might be you call and get a babysitter, and y'all go out for um half a half morning, right?

I want y'all to take full ownership of the choices you're making. Cuz if you if you walk through life feeling like this is happening to us, then chances are your wife is going to end up in the guilt factory. She can't do anything right.

And you're going to feel like uh you're going to live in the failure factory.

I don't I don't make enough.

>> in the failure Yeah. >> Uh that's right. I I'm not I'm not providing enough for fill in the blank.

And the problem is that finish line of the guilt factory and the failure factory, it just it just moves on you.

It just keeps moving and moving until you opt out of both of those factories and you just say, "Hey, we're we're we're choosing this. It's great. We're choosing stay at home. We're choosing a job where I can clock out and come be present at home.

And that means we're choosing this financial situation. And that means we're choosing to rent for a while." But the more you feel like a victim to your circumstance, the more you both are going to end up in pathological responses.

>> That makes sense. That makes sense. So, we choose it. If we choose it, find a way to enjoy it and and and be happy about it. >> And and if you make if you make coming together once every 6 months, once a year, "Hey, what life do we want to choose this time? We've never been married and had a 3-year-old and you're pregnant again. We've never been married and had a 4-year-old. We've never been married and had a kinder Like your marriage changes every year." And so, to Jay's point, this particular

year, what do we want to choose? Well, actually, I want to choose to go back to work. All right, well, let's navigate that. And that's going to come with guilt and what And let's choose to buy a house.

Okay, then what must be true for us to do that? But it's you owning this thing, not you responding to this thing.

>> That's so good. And that's a great question, and I actually think the way that you explained that, John, is really

the crux mindset that you have to have around everything that we teach. Because all All it is a um all of it is I'm giving up something here to get something I want over here. >> Yes. >> Right?

And so even something as simple as a budget when we say hey, make a budget because when you make a budget you have control over it. You're choosing and saying this is how I'm going to spend my money. It's not oh, somebody's making me spend my money on groceries and my car note and no, I chose this. I chose I said I'm going to put this much of a line item towards entertainment.

I'm going to put this much of a line, right? And already you feel way better about the things that maybe you're going to say no to or maybe that you're not going to be able to do in this season because you made the choice of making the budget. Same thing with getting out of debt.

Nope, the IRS didn't do it to me, student loans didn't do it to me. I chose that I would like to be free. I would like to get out of debt. Therefore, now I can feel really good about and just kind of almost set my expectations to know hey, this is the season where it feels like a grind.

>> Cuz I'm choosing. >> I chose it. >> I chose it. I chose to walk into the gym this morning or not.

I chose to stay up I I'll tell you I chose to stay up way, way too late last night. And [laughter] I I then made a choice to cost myself this morning. >> That's right. >> Right?

>> We've all done it. >> They told me I had to go to college. Who? Well, they did.

Like and it's a combo of parents and culture and teachers and what, right?

And they didn't tell me how bad this was

going to be after college. And they at some point I had to say you're right, but I signed my name on that paper. >> to believe it. >> I got to pay that back, right? I signed the paper, I'm going to pay that back.

And and that means I'm going to choose to have a pretty crummy car for a while.

>> Right. >> I'm going to choose to move into a dorm for a while. I'm going to choose to sleep on air mattress for a while. I'm going to make these choices.

And man, that's the shift out of Here's the thing, I spent my whole career sitting with people, assault victims, people who have loved ones pass away, people who made choices to, you know, sell or use drugs. We always end on one question.

What are you going to do now? And that's a choice. Like it has happened, it did, and it's for real. What are you going to do now? And I think that's the most empowering question somebody can ask somebody else. >> I think so, too, because then you know, hey, no matter where things end up, I I didn't somebody didn't put me there. I I put There's more peace in knowing.

>> the driver's seat of my life. >> Yes. That's one of the reasons I almost will never ever ever You'll never hear me suggest bankruptcy on this show because you lose control. The government steps in and now they're telling you to sell this and do that. Control, guys. It is a wonderful feeling. Even if things aren't going specifically your way, to be able to say, I chose this, it's everything.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> [music]

>> Kyle is in Boston, Massachusetts. Hey Kyle, how can we help today?

>> Hey, good. How are you? Thanks for Thanks for taking my call today. >> Yeah, you bet. >> I had a question around student loans.

So, I'll I'll give a quick background before I ask my question, but I went to a private college, got a small scholarship, but still took on some debt, sitting at around 25,000 in student loans debt. That's the only debt I have. I'm a very diligent spender, very good with my money.

If I invest in the market, standard return puts it above my interest rate.

>> Mhm. >> It I have a hard time struggling with should I pay off my student loan debt or should I take that minimum payment or the money and invest it into the market instead?

>> Dude, I love talking to smart guys.

>> [laughter] >> Like for real, like you're thoughtful, you thought this through, and that's awesome. >> Yes, definitely.

>> Yeah, I mean, there's there's a mathematical side of that that you can play out. I'm more on the emotional side of it, you know, over here we believe that the borrower is slave to the lender, and you do feel that that's a that's a soul tax that you pay. It's a sleep tax that you pay. It's a a relational tax that you pay, and it's clearly bothering you because you're also calling into a show about the student loan debt.

You're not thinking, "I'm just going to go over here and invest and invest." You're thinking about it in relation to the student loan debt.

Um I would challenge you that there's a world where you get to do both. You just need to do one first and the other one second. And I don't think in the long

run you're going to go back and go, "Man, if only I had invested that money instead of paying off my student loan." I think you're going to go, "Let me just clear out this student loan. It's a private student loan. Uh it's a private loan, right?" >> Yes. Uh no, no, no. It's it's a federal loan. It's a federal loan. >> Oh, I thought you said private. Okay, so it's federal loan. Um how quickly could you do it? Cuz something tells me that you make a fine income.

>> Yeah. So, honestly, the reason I'm calling today is I hit the breaking point where my brokerage account meets the debt. I could do it today. >> I bet. >> Done. Do it right now. Right now.

Hey, hey. >> Yeah. >> Do He- He- Here's a Here's a a a bet I'll make you, okay?

Cancel the debt today.

Live debt-free for two pay periods, two months.

If you hate not owing anybody any money,

go down to the local credit union, take a $25,000 loan, and put it back in the market. >> Money-back guarantee.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, I Just call call our bluff. Two months.

>> Yeah, and and and Don, that's part of the reason I'm calling, right? I just don't think I'd do that. Like, I I I mean, I make fine money. It would I I could probably get that back in another year, maybe two. I I I'm I've only been out of school for uh a couple years now, so >> But do you see the point he's making?

That's the one I'm facing. >> It's not a dilemma. >> There's no dilemma. You have never been 100% in the driver's

seat of your own life.

You were at your parents' house. >> Financially, no. >> You went to a college where they told you what to do and when to do it. You got a job and they're telling you what to do every day. And you got a bank telling you, "I don't care if you're sick. I don't care if COVID's here. You

owe me that money." You've never sat in the car of your life

completely autonomously, with agency as

the nerds say.

And I'm telling you on the other side of where you are, bro, it's pretty sweet.

>> That's such a good point. Anything that's in your life, you're saying yes to. Right? So, you should look at the things in your life intentionally and say, "Do I want to say yes to that? Do I want to say yes to $25,000 of debt now that I

know kind of what it is and what it costs me?" And John made such a great point. Obviously, the answer is no. You don't want to say yes to that. Because if we said, "Hey, why don't you go and take out $25,000 of debt?" You and you don't have any, you'd say, "No, I don't I don't want to do that." >> Right?

That's stupid. >> you you ended up with this debt, probably like all of us did. You weren't thinking straight, you know, you didn't understand that that's what you were choosing, right? You got it.

But now that you have the choice, exercise that and say, "I don't You know, I don't really want that in my life." And I love what John said. If you pay it off, you decide, "Ah, you know what? I actually miss it." >> I miss it. >> I miss it.

I need it back. >> I love having to look every third night cuz you're a guy who looks. I look at my balance to see what the interest is and how much it's grown. >> Just to make sure it's still there.

>> miss it. Yeah, dude.

>> And so, I'm 23 years old.

>> Homie, bro, wait a minute now. You could be free before you're 25.

>> Yeah. >> 25, freedom, homie.

>> be free today. He said he has the money today. >> Before you're Yeah. >> What's the payment on the student loans?

What's the payment on them?

>> So my minimum payment is $207 and that

would rope me in for I think another seven or eight years maybe at this point. Um >> Have you Have you done the math?

Have you done the math [clears throat] on just if you said, "You know what today I'm going to I'm going to bite the bullet. I'm going to take this 25,000.

I'm going to go ahead and pay it off and then starting you know next month cuz I have you have more cash laying around I just know it. Starting next month I'm going to invest 15% plus the 207 and I'm

going to do that from age 24 to age 64."

Have you just done that math?

>> So and I have and I've done the math on what if I was in my mind I have x amount

that I'm putting towards the market and student loans combined, right? So if I just put if I take that minimum payment out and take that number that I have in mind and just put it towards the market it it's it there is a little bit of a higher

number in keeping the student loan around because that interest rate is below standard return on the market.

>> I know but you're you're >> that's the question is >> My point is let me tell you my point. My point is if you pay this off today, yes you're you're breaking down your brokerage by 25,000 but you're also becoming 25,000 dollars free. You become a completely free individual and then if you do what I said, you're The point is you're going to have a bazillion dollars. >> [laughter] >> Maybe if you kept the student loan you'd have a bazillion and one but do you see do you see what I'm saying?

There's going to be something that you pay. It's everything is an exchange. We're we've been into this heavily today. Everything is an exchange.

There's always a sacrifice to win and winning isn't just in dollars and cents.

It's in peace. It's in deciding who you want to be. John and I are people were like, "Hey, we don't borrow money. We just don't like having that sense of attachment."

>> want another grown man tell me what I have to do. I have enough of that already. They tell me what what what when to be at work. They tell me how fast I can drive. I don't like it. So, I don't want to give anybody else an opportunity to tell me what to do with my life. >> And it just sets the it's it's a

it's a test for how we treat other things in our life. >> And hey, since you're a guy who runs data, can I challenge you with yet another calculation?

>> Sure. >> Are you dating anybody?

>> I am. >> Seriously?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um I just finished a 2-year project studying marriage. Okay?

>> Okay. >> I would recommend, and this is going to sound crazy to you in the short term.

Maybe don't even put that $200

into the market right away.

But go take this date of yours, and

y'all go have fun.

Go laugh. Go have joy.

>> Yeah. >> Right? You you're debt-free at 23. You make a great salary. You're on your path to be a multi multi multi-millionaire.

And the ROI on a married couple who's

locked in with their money is the highest ROI. Two people who get

to combine time, energy, and financial resources over a long period of time, their net worth outpaces anybody.

>> Right. >> So, if you want to do the ultimate ROI, get married and do marriage really really well.

>> Yeah. Yeah, and that's the plan. I mean, I guess just start it sooner.

>> Bro, I I Dude, I I'm smiling because I'm I like talking to young men like you because you're the guys that I want leading the next generation of of human beings that my kids are going to walk on the sidewalks that you that you're that you're pouring.

>> Yeah, I and I appreciate that. I and the reason for my call is is because of that, right? Like I I have that question of what do I want? Do I want peace? Do I want logic? And it goes back to also the the point that I think Jay was making is like it's between plus one or peace of mind early and focus on life earlier on, right? >> That's right. That's right. >> unshackle yourself from people telling you what to do at 23, how fast you can run will astonish you.

You'll get so far so much further ahead of your peers, your neighbors, the people around you. It's it's you're in a pretty amazing spot. Choose freedom today, brother. Def free today.

>> [music]

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>> Here's the deal. Buying or selling a home is actually a very, very big deal.

And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's very hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. But we're here to help make the latest trends easy to understand. For instance, last month the average 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, that rate it ticked up to about 5.56%.

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Now, to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, we got Richard who's in Austin, Texas. Hey Richard, how can we help today?

>> Yo, what's up, you guys? It's great to be on your show. >> Yeah. How can we help?

>> So, here's what's going on. I moved to Austin from Florida about 4 years ago, and I think I have the golden handcuffs at a 3% interest rate.

So, I [snorts] kept my home in Florida and it's been a rental property since.

And um I just had it appraised at 350 and I owe 190 on it. Now, I've done a ton of work and renovations to this home cuz it's 100 years old. Um so, right now I don't have a high uh amount of cash set aside. And so, it's kind of a lifestyle thing is where right now in Austin I'm living in a one-bedroom apartment. But the house does have a 3% interest rate. The mortgage is uh just under 1,500 a month and it's rented for 2,200 a month.

And so, I'm curious if I should hold on to that house because a 3% interest rate isn't coming back.

And uh or if I should sell it and look at maybe getting a place out here where I'm looking to uh stay for quite a few more years. >> I have a great idea for you.

I want you to get on a computer OG style. Use clip art. Don't use like any of the AI tools. Use clip art. And make

a sign that says 3%.

And print it in color and I want you to frame it and I want you to put it right in the middle of your teeny, tiny one-bedroom apartment kitchen.

>> Uh okay. >> time you Every time you have to turn sideways to get by your stool so you can get into your fridge, I want you to look up and be like, "Yeah, 3%. This one's for you."

>> Yeah. Yeah. And when I And when I go on dates, I'll say, "Hey, but but I do own a house. It's just on the other side of the country." >> Yeah. Yeah. But [laughter] in the meantime, why don't you come back to my place and I can we can both squeeze into the the futon I have in my combined kitchen {slash} breakfast nook

{slash} living room. >> Oh gosh. Yeah. [laughter] Why are you doing this to yourself? >> square feet. >> Do Do what?

>> I said it's a whole 650 square >> Oh man. >> [laughter] >> This You know what? I'm going to tell you what. I'll give you one worse.

That's like when you have like a really And I know you're you're a man, but like if you have a a pair of jeans you love or like and you gain a couple pounds and they don't fit anymore >> [laughter] >> and you just keep them in there and it's just taunting you. Every time you see them it's like just a reminder like you're fatter than you were. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah.

Here's a good question to ask you.

If you had 150 grand right now,

would you take out a mortgage even at 3% and buy a house in where in nowhere Florida?

>> No. >> No. >> You wouldn't do that? >> Just by default, man. >> You're you're a long distance landlord. Sell the place, have get that money, buy yourself a place in Austin and enjoy your life, dude.

>> I guess just looking into the future my thought is it'll be paid off in uh just under 20 years and if you have paid off [laughter] the >> What are you saying? >> Call me. Have you been alive the last 10 years?

>> Yes, sir. I think so.

>> Could you have predicted any of what's happened?

>> No. >> Okay. >> No. >> So trying to read 20 years into the future that is this madhouse,

man, I man, best of luck to you.

I would solve >> right.

I figured y'all would go down that that road but but you don't think it's worth keeping it just for the lower >> No, you don't live there anymore. You don't live there. You don't live there and to John's point, you can call it a rental house but it's really not that because if you were on the hunt for a rental house, you would not have chosen that house. So it's just a house that you lived in and now you don't live there anymore so you sold it. Like there's nothing there's no loss there.

There's no failure. There's no and it's almost like you're viewing it as a failure to sell this house and let it go and it's not. You you moved on and that's okay. It's a natural part >> You're not winning. >> of life. >> And I'll go a step further, brother. I this is me and my house. I had a 3.1% in interest rate and I paid my house off.

My wife and I scratched and clawed and worked like crazy to pay our house off.

And I could have made more money. It it like in the years since, I could have if I took the gap and put it in the in the market, I would have made money.

But dude, I wouldn't trade that arbitrage for anything thing because I put my head down on my pillow and that house is mine and nobody can take it from me. >> So So probably shoot for cuz the way I set up the lease is that it'll be vacated uh this not this spring but a year from now in the spring. >> No, too long. Tell him you're selling the house. Tell him you're selling the house.

>> Really? >> Yes. Well, you're going to keep it for another year?

>> Yeah, I guess that's a good I guess that's a good point. >> At some point, I want you to start considering what do you want your house to What do you want your life to feel like right now?

You're You're You're over indexing on a an imaginary future and you're under indexing on the life you live right this second. You get about >> Yeah, and that's the thing is the is the ego head of living in an apartment for the time with the thought of well, you know, and when I retire, I'll have a paid-off home sitting there, something like that. >> Yeah, maybe. Or maybe a hurricane takes it.

Like who knows, dude? >> Yeah, you change what you want I mean, you could change what you want and that's not even in your purview when you get that age.

>> Well, all right. Well, then Dan, Dan, let's uh get get on the phone with one of y'all's endorsed real estate provider. >> I I would before the day is over.

And I dude, I You'll be smiling so big

when this thing sell I'm just telling you, man. When that money deposits in your account and you're free,

we'll be able to feel that smile all the way here in Nashville from Austin.

>> Yeah, that's a good thing. Yeah, that that whole We get that call all the time. A lot of times it's military folks who are moving around a lot and they end up with like a handful of houses in different states. And I it's almost like well, someone's in them, someone's renting it, so it must be a good idea.

And the truth is, like being a long-distance landlord, the places are getting tore up, you're probably not as involved as you need to be, or you're paying somebody to manage the property.

And it's just like if you reverse it, you never would have selected you never would have chosen that place. >> like recency amnesia. We just went through a global issue where in many markets they said, "We're freezing rents, or your people don't have to pay for an undisclosed amount of time." It's like It's like we've just all forgotten, man.

>> Well, I mean, I do think like COVID obviously was an isolated incident, but >> But it happened. >> But the whole point is 2008, 2009 was an isolated incident. And and and it's always another isolated incident, but But I would say like the the biggest part is what we've been saying for the last several calls, which is not letting life happen to you, but being so intentional about what you're choosing, and knowing that if you say yes to one thing, you're likely saying no to other things. And that's okay.

Like it's not a negative thing. It's a choice that you're making, and being really intentional that the things that are in your life, you have said you have looked at it and given it a once over and said, "Yes, I like that the way it is. I would choose that again tomorrow. I would choose that again the next day." And if you can't say that about things in your life, it's time to cut it loose.

That's That's that on that.

A little question here from the the the social media. Peyton from Facebook says, "My wife wants to upgrade rooms in our house, but I feel like it doesn't make sense since we will still have a mortgage on it. Should we use those funds to pay off the current mortgage, and then renovate it when we fully own it?"

>> I have a a bias there, so that's me.

>> Tell me. >> I I'm I'm on not on Ramsey principles, I'm on his principle like that's what I would want to do in my house.

And I also know >> one and upgrade it? Like and then renovate it? >> it's mine, then I'll start tinkering with it, but I also know like that question doesn't tell me what the state of the house is in. >> tell us what baby step they're on.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> If you listen, if you're in baby step two, now is not the time [laughter] to upgrade the mortgage. I can tell you that right now. >> Upgrade the bedroom, yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, okay. I read that a little bit different differently.

>> And he still has a mortgage, and he says, "Hey, should we pay off the mortgage?" I'm assuming they're in baby step four, five, and six, and >> Uh you know, okay. I'll I'll reframe my answer. If you're in baby steps four, five, and six, there is no wrong answer there. >> Fix it up, man, if you want to. Or pay it off, but >> Yeah. And if you're in baby step two, well, you already know what to do.

>> And I'll just say, "Mama wants to change up her room, probably change up that room." >> Unless you're on [music] baby step two.

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>> All right, [music] welcome back to The Ramsey Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade, this is John, and we're going to Beth who's in Denver, Colorado. We were just there hosting The Ramsey Show live. Beth, how you doing?

>> I'm doing all right today. How are you?

>> Doing good. How can we help you today?

>> Um my mom is uh 67 and currently living

on social security.

Um she is married and uh to my stepfather and they both had pretty major surgeries this year. My mom had back surgery and my stepdad had open heart surgery and they can't really work right now. They bring home about $4,400 a month. Um but I recently she started like being

short on things and finally I kind of asked to look at her finances and she has $51,000 in credit card debt.

Um she has zero savings, like literally zero. Um she has never really been really good at money. She's lost two houses and filed bankruptcy um before. Um I'm currently debt-free um

after following baby steps by I'm worth um with my husband about $1.8 million and um she knows that I have money and

so she keeps calling me and expecting me to help and um I've I've kind of put all

of her stuff into a budget for her and she keeps overspending. Um you know, she'll she'll order DoorDash or something and then wonder why she's short every month and so I'm trying to figure out how to kind of get it through to her that that like she has to stop and I you

know, I've talked to my husband and we we just like don't feel like helping her is >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> What about your stepdad? What's his role? What's his role in all this?

>> I mean, they're both equally terrible at

money just generally speaking and so um, you know, she's asked me to buy her a house, and she's asked me to do like all of these things, and I'm like, we we can't do that. Like, that's not >> Oh, this is extreme. This [laughter] is far worse than I I ask my buddies for nachos, not a house.

>> Oh, boy. Um, and how long How long have they been married?

>> Um, they've been married since I was five, so 40 years. >> is not like, oh, this is kind of new.

They're they've they've been a mess for a while.

A long, long while. >> Yeah, it And and they had uh money when I was in high school, and like, um, kind of just spent it, and and leaned into that lifestyle, and then they tried to downsize, and so so bought another house, ended up losing both houses, um, and they've lived in in rentals ever since then.

>> Yeah. I mean, they made choices. They made choices the same way you made choices, right? They were dealt a hand, and they said, "Here's what I'm going to do." You were dealt your hand, and you said, "Here's what I'm going to do." Um, if you spend too much time and and John, this is your area, but if you spend too much time trying to sort through why other people made and make the choices that they're making, it is just >> to go insane.

>> Right. Yeah, you will go insane. Especially if you're using that framework to determine what you're going to do. It's like, you just got to >> Yeah, I mean, I just go, "Hey, I I see what's going on.

It's very apparent. I don't need to do a bunch of mental gymnastics here.

When you said she was literally coming to you saying, "Hey, will you buy me a house?" >> Right. >> That's when I knew we don't even need to go through a whole lot of the rigmarole of what they're doing. This is ridiculousness, and I'm wondering, um, have you just gone to her and said, "Mom, here are the ways I can help you.

I can help you with the budget. I can help you as accountability to stick with the budget. Uh Uh I can help show you the things that I've done. I can provide a plan for you.

But, one thing I cannot do because you guys actually do have money is I'm not going to give you monetary help because you have money coming in that if you manage it properly will be enough for you. And I think when you say that very clearly, that's all you can say. And then when when when your mom oversteps the boundary because she's going to, you can just say, "Hey, just remember what I said before let's I'm happy to sit down with you and do the budget." >> Yeah. I think the tricky part right now is that like us about half of these things are already in collections.

Like the credit cards are in collections. She She doesn't even have enough room in her budget to pay these crazy minimums. And so, I've kind of told her to to start with one credit card and like not pay the rest right now. And I've set like I've set up a budget for her.

>> follow it. >> Beth.

She's lost two houses before.

>> Yeah. >> She She's had the worst thing that can happen to somebody. She lost her home.

And then she had it happen again.

And then she's about to have it happen again.

What does that tell you What does that tell you? >> I mean I just feel like they just don't learn from their mistakes. >> Okay. So, so you Here's the thing, you're right and like they they blow by natural consequences.

The rules of the world of reality don't apply to them. When they have money and when they don't.

And >> Yeah. >> No no amount Let me free you from this.

There's not a thing you haven't said in just the right way that would solve this for them.

They're really fortunate to have you as their daughter.

The fact that you care this much cuz I know in a family with finances like this, you've been through a lot also, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, yeah. >> Yeah, listen. Listen.

Yes.

Yes. I wanted you to hear me say you have changed your family tree.

You didn't take the baton from them. You picked it up off the track and you decided to run as fast as you could with it. And you're going to hand it off to your kids in a much better position than you were given it, right?

>> Yeah, I mean, that's that was my huge motivator for for for not ending up like

that. Like I just promised I would never leave my kids like like in this position. >> Yeah, and you've done that. And I want you to hear me and Jade say we're still man, we're so proud of you cuz what you've done is really hard. It's harder than just doing the baby steps. You also had to take care of that 7-year-old little girl that was dealing with chaos and divorce and new boyfriends and food

insecurity growing up.

>> And now it continues to be hard because here you are doing well and you have to sit and see >> survivor's guilt. That's right. Yeah.

And so let me say here's what I know about you. I can tell it by the way you told the story. If this if your mom and stepdad were doing really well and suddenly their house got hit by a giant limb, you would be there with a checkbook on day one. That's who you are.

But you can't keep showing up to the bar of a friend who's struggling with an alcohol addiction and saying, all right, I'm going to buy this round and then you got to go.

>> Yeah. >> And you and into that same analogy you've been kind but you've been kind you said I'll pay for therapy, I'll pay for rehab, I'll pay for and if they say >> They don't want to go. >> They don't want it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, I offered to pay for financial peace and I don't even want to do I don't even want to do it because I don't think she'll do it. >> Yeah, they and they won't and then they don't they don't they don't want your help. I mean, they don't want your advice. They want your money.

And that [clears throat] breaks my heart for you because everyone needs their mom.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I feel like the adult. >> Yeah, you you 100% are the adult and that means you have to act like the adult and when our toddlers I I never I never ceases to amaze me when people are like man, my 10-year-old only wants ice cream. I'm like yes, they're 10 and ice cream's awesome. They need adults in their lives to say hey, we can't do that all the time.

And it similarly, you are you're the adult now and you have to say hey, I'm I'm not giving you any more money and then you're going to have to go home with your husband and be real sad that your mom put [music] you in this position. I hate it for you.

>> Yeah, and if you give her more money, she's going to be wasteful with it and that's [music] just going to add to any resentment or any feelings of, you know, any negative feelings that you already have towards her.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Dakota who's in Memphis, Tennessee. What's going on, Dakota?

>> Uh how are y'all doing today?

>> Doing pretty good. How can we help?

>> Uh I have about 30,000 in debt, roughly.

Uh it's really just it's really just my truck payment. Um I have all my credit cards paid off. I I have a couple other vehicles.

Everything's paid off, but I want to pay off my truck and I want to start saving for a house. I don't even know what to do to do that.

>> Okay, I love that you're interested in paying off vehicles your vehicle. Why do you have multiples? What other vehicles did you have? >> Uh I have a 1993

uh 73 IDI diesel truck. I have a motorcycle and a couple four wheelers.

>> Oh boy. >> You like them wheels, don't you?

>> Huh, yes, sir.

>> [laughter] >> What's your income to have all these >> You better be making a million a million bucks, homie.

>> Uh no. Just terrible with money.

>> [laughter] >> Well, at least you're honest. >> Hey, dude. Yeah, admission is the first step. >> Okay, so tell me again, tell me what are you earning?

>> Uh I'm making about 3,200 a month after

taxes.

>> Okay, so I'm just going to put you on blast. My screen says that this truck has a 30% interest rate.

Is that true?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> You left that little part out.

>> [laughter] >> Uh I >> mob? What did you do?

>> Uh I don't I'm not really for sure why they gave it to me at such a high interest rate. I didn't have a co-signer. It was a year ago, so I was right I just turned 21.

>> No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. You said I'm not sure why they gave it to me. I want to know why did you take it?

Why did you receive it?

>> I was I was going to travel on the road and you know, be a be a welder out on the road. Well, my dad got cancer, so I came off the road. So I come back to making regular people money.

>> Got you. Okay. >> you you just walked into a truck dealership and they sold you a truck and just is it is it like a

Was it like a payday lot or is this like a dealership?

>> It was an actual dealership out in Mississippi. >> And they rolled you up for 30%?

>> Yes, sir.

>> Wow. Okay. >> Man, I Whoever did that is a terrible, terrible person taking advantage of a 21-year-old kid who's trying to take care of his dad with cancer.

I I won't say what I'm thinking in my head because I'm on the radio right now, but that's that's a terrible, terrible person taking advantage of you like that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Well, you live and learn. So you know better than to come >> Hey, and you know what? That that's the the path forward is okay, you took advantage of me, you got winning on me, but I stepped in the ring. I signed that paper. You're right. Now now what am I going to do next? So good on you, brother. That's that's the that's the right way to handle it. Now you got a mess, let's just go walk through it and clean it up.

>> Yes, sir. >> Um so when you pay your pay, how much is your payment?

>> 800 a month. >> Okay. Um man.

All right, the only way you're going to get out of this is to just quickly blast

through this. That's the only way. Or you can turn around and sell it, but >> How upside down are you? >> Yeah, I know that you are. >> Uh, I'm not I'm not upside down at all right now. I mean, uh, I'm making enough to pay my truck payment, pay my insurance, and have a little bit of fun with the money and everything else. It's just >> Uh, upside down meaning how much is that truck if you went and sold it today, how much would you get for that minus what you owe on it?

>> Oh, uh, I'd be upside down by 10,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay, so to Here's the plan.

I want you quickly, today, tomorrow, I want you to go to your local credit union, and I want you to say, "Can you please somehow I got into this crazy loan. I want to sell the vehicle. Can you please give me a loan for $10,000?" That way when you go and you sell this car for what it's worth, you can close that gap and be able to get the title.

You can be able to pay it off and and have a clear a clear title on it. So, that's what you need. You need $10,000.

And then in the meantime, you've got another truck, you've got four-wheelers, you've got You've got other ways to get yourself around town until you can use your income to save up I don't know, $6,000? I Something tells me you're good at working on vehicles.

So, get yourself like a six or $7,000 truck or car, and let that be your beater that you drive around town until you can save up and and kind of get yourself on track. >> Does your dad Is he feeling better? Is he doing well?

>> Uh, he's got a cancer appointment this coming Monday. He's got another surgery.

This will be his fourth one. >> Does Does he have a car you can use in the meantime?

>> Uh, he does, but he's disabled and he's always at the house, so I'd hate to leave him at the house with nothing.

>> Yeah, but if he's not going anywhere, then I I'm trying to give you options, and you wouldn't be the only person cruising Memphis on a four-wheeler.

>> [snorts] [laughter] >> That was That was I'm in Nashville, so that was my That was my Memphis dig.

But, um, yeah, man, you you're going to have to just swallow all of your ego and all your pride and all of the things that you think had made you a man at 21, a big truck, four-wheelers, toys, and you're going to have to say, "The thing that makes me a man at 21 is absolute freedom." >> Right. >> Right? >> And you know, like we don't I don't I don't think we're going to have to convince you to do this cuz you know 30% is just astronomical.

And for for your income that you're bringing in, I mean, it's just going to it's just going to eat your lunch.

And you're going to hate driving it. You probably already do hate driving it because it's just it's so detrimental to anything you're trying to build right now. >> Right. I go through about 250 bucks a

week in diesel.

Um >> All right. All right. Do you use your truck for work?

>> Yes, sir. It's my daily driver.

>> I know, but do you It Is it have like a welding rig on the back or is this Could you do the same job with a Prius?

>> Uh I could do the same job with a Prius.

I work in a welding shop. >> tax time. You got to drive a Prius for a year. That's your That's your tax on what on your stu- That's your stupid tax. I'm just playing. You don't got to do that. >> But, you do need to get that loan. Will you do it?

>> Uh I can try. Uh my credit is

650 or 660 right now.

>> Listen, dude. Here's the thing.

I don't care I don't care how you need to get this loan. You're not Nothing's going to be worse than 30%. >> No. And you're not you're not close to a house right now, man.

So, set that dream aside for a second. >> Yeah. You could put the You could put the 10,000 anywhere else and it's going to be better than what you're paying right now on this car loan. >> Or could you sell both those four-wheelers and come up with 10 grand on the sale of those?

>> Oh, yeah. That's a great That's an even better idea, John. >> Uh not a chance. I could probably sell my motorcycle.

>> How much is that worth? >> Seven. >> Yes. >> Today.

Today.

>> Okay. >> And here's the thing. When If you think about buying a house right now, that's like you are out in the ocean and the ship had a hole in it and you're treading water and you're and you're trying to get online on your phone and buy curtains for a beach house.

>> Mhm. Like your thing you should be worrying about now is swimming to shore.

>> Yeah, what about your other diesel truck? What's that worth?

>> Um about 4,000. It's all old trucks.

It's got a lot of high miles on it. >> That's your new That's your new daily driver, dude. >> Yeah, that's your new daily driver. So, yeah, this is This is even better. We sell the motorcycle.

I would still put the four-wheelers up cuz who knows? Maybe you can close that gap and get the 3,000. I don't know what a four-wheeler's worth. But, you need 3,000 to go with the 7,000. Then you sell the $30,000 truck and you've got your diesel truck, your older one sitting there ready for you to drive.

This is This is what's called a clean slate. Like that gives you a completely fresh start.

And it's not what you were envisioning, but man, >> What's your What's your trade, brother?

>> Uh I'm a welder welder / heavy machine

operator. >> Okay, can I tell you right now in our current world, a 21-year-old who is a licensed welder and heavy machine operator that has that has no debt, you know what you can do? Anything you want.

You're one of the freest men on the planet.

>> That sounds real nice. >> But, right now you got a dad who's struggling with cancer and you have a four-wheeler dealership saying, "I don't care what's going on. You owe us money.

You go to work." You have a diesel truck

uh evil people who sold you a diesel truck over your head and they're like, "I don't care if your old man's passed is is getting sick is is has passed away. You have to go to work cuz you owe us money, right?" And we're We're cutting all those chains today.

>> Right. That sounds like a plan to me.

>> Dude, welcome to to to your freedom, good man.

>> Yeah, I'm proud of you. Listen, John, here's the thing. Whenever when Whenever we get calls like this and the the solution is so sweeping and it's just so extreme. It's like, "Sell the car.

Sell the motorcycle. drive the old truck, get rid of the four-wheelers. I am always so proud of the people. Now, don't get me wrong, like, when we say that, I know they're going to get off the phone and they're going to sit in their car or they're going to sit, you know, in their break room and be like, "Okay, like, the the the true test happens now." Where he has the next, uh, you know, 30 minutes to an hour to really think about what we said and am I actually going to do it?

>> Don't think, just go. Just go.

Just go. Move. Move. Move. >> do it. The people who And we're not saying just listen to us and don't think, but you know what we're saying is right. You know it's the right move. Don't talk yourself out of it. Strike while the iron is hot. Change your life today. Just go out and do it. You won't regret it.

>> [music]

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>> Alrighty, let's go back to the phone lines where we have Leanne who's in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. What's going on

Leanne? How can we help today?

>> Well, I need to find out if uh profit

potential is worth a liability and

worry. Uh my husband's father had a recent illness, um quickly put him

in a nursing home.

Um the uh siblings there's four of them decided they wanted to do a ladybird deed to protect the only asset which is his house from creditors. He has uh $30,000 in credit card debt,

no savings.

There's a $140,000 loan on this house and it's probably worth $350,000.

Um the siblings are going to have to split

the cost to keep this house running.

Um if uh it's sold, the creditors or Medicare can

take it.

Um that's who's going to be paying for his nursing home.

>> Okay. >> And so that's that's telling that we've been told that that will be $400 a piece

>> [snorts] >> um per month to take care of this house.

Uh it's 15 hours away.

The profit might be 20 to $30,000 when he passes away.

um one of the siblings has had over 30,000 in gambling debt. Um there's also two

children from a deceased sibling, so it'll be divided six ways.

Um >> After it's divided six ways, that's the $20,000 profit?

>> Right. >> Okay. >> And who knows how long we're going to have to pay this $400 a month.

I'm the only one that works. My husband had an injury. He'll be be getting retirement soon, but he can't work, so it's me paying the $400. If something does happen to my husband before his father passes away,

this his proceeds will go to his children. >> It won't go to you. >> I will be No, it'll go to the children.

And that I guess that just That's the way that works. And >> Are you expecting your husband not to make it? >> He has some He has some Well, he has some significant health problems, so there is a risk >> I mean >> for that. >> When I look at the nursing home situation, most people it's a two it's a two and a half to three years stay. Like that's the maximum that you can usually count on. Um that's just average time.

So if I were going to do the math on this, I would calculate it at Okay, if I pay 400 bucks a month, you know, for two

to three years, that puts me in this you know, X amount of dollars, what, $12,000?

And then I I stand to make at that point, I don't know, 10,000 $8,000 off

this entire deal and off this entire headache if if I get the 20,000.

So that's kind of where my brain immediately goes.

>> Um let me let me let me dig it like do you do you have $400 a month?

>> Yes, but there's a lot of resentment on my part because he didn't take care of his finances.

>> Sure. I I get that. Um

>> I don't think >> I just don't I don't want to be on the deed.

>> I I would not do this as an investment.

I would do this as a way for me like

in service to my husband who feels like he needs to take care of his dad at the tune of $400 a month for the next 18 to 24 months. If you get some money back, yippee do da ape. I wouldn't count on it. I would look at it that way.

>> The only The only thing is um it's his dad's going to be taken care of. The siblings are using this as a savings a

way of savings to keep the house.

>> I I know I know Hold on. Hold on. >> can do that. They can do that.

>> heads and out of their minds. It resentment is a is a is baggage you're carrying. Right? You've heard the old AA saying, "You're drinking poison hoping that they will get sick." I'm going to choose to send $400 to my father-in-law, me and my husband are together, and we're going to send $400 to take care of him. His siblings have been have had their struggles before They've always had struggles. They're always going to have struggles.

I'm not getting in their mess. I'm not doing business deals with them. Yada yada yada. That's That's all wise and good. I'm not looking at this as a what a And by the way, he technically is getting taken care of, but he's getting taken care of with your tax dollar. You're paying for this in anyway, right?

>> Correct. >> So >> That's another thing that's >> If you don't want to be part of this, you don't have to be part of it. And and you know, you you asked a very clear question like is there basically a return on investment for me if I do this? Yeah, and maybe you come out with $8,000, but I don't think that's worth it for you.

You don't know that you're going to get this money. You don't even want to be a part of this. >> Can you can can your Yeah, can your husband just say, "Hey, we we want out of this deal.

>> Yeah, but like >> I would do that. >> Is there a liability with this house?

Can someone come back on us?

>> On you? No, you're not on the deed.

>> You're not on the deed.

>> Right, if they're not on the deed. But the husband would be put on the deed.

>> No, no, no. He can go in and say, "I don't want anything to do with this deal. I I'm I'm foregoing my piece of this, my potential piece of this. Best of luck to you all." >> Mhm, yes.

>> That's That's exactly what I would do. >> Because to your point, he's not and I don't know what you guys have going on with your personal finances, but he's not the one paying for it. You would be the one paying for it. And you're saying, "I don't want to do it." >> We only owe uh for our house and our vehicle.

>> Yeah, yeah. >> So >> Please, yeah. If you can convince him, I don't know if he's like dead set on this, but if you can convince him, "I don't want to be a part of this." I think that's the answer. No >> And it he'll Y'all will come out looking like the good guys.

Tell Tell his siblings, "Hey, you know what? We We're We're We're doing well. We want y'all to split it amongst yourselves." >> Yeah, there you go.

That's even better. >> And this ends up By the way, this ends up in multiple lawsuits because somebody's cousin of one of these step kids is going to be like, "Well, I want a piece." And they're going to have a friend who knows a guy who will write a legal brief I mean not a brief, but a legal letter. Just yeah, stay away. Stay away from the whole thing. >> Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, John, another social question I have here in my hand. Let's see here.

>> You love them social media questions. >> I like them because people sometimes they don't want to call in. They just want to talk to us here. All right, Joni from TikTok says, "Is hiring a credit repair company a smart move?" >> No. >> I don't have a lot of current debt. I just have some really old things on my credit that I want to get rid of.

>> There's that old Seinfeld uh exchange when Kramer comes in and he's like, "They write it off." And Seinfeld's like, "They write it off of what?" He's like, "I DON'T KNOW. THEY JUST write it Like it doesn't just go away. Just pay it.

>> Yeah, I would say pay it and you can probably, if it's really, really old, you can probably settle it. >> Settle it. >> Cuz that's what they're going to do. >> Yeah. >> By the way, let's let's talk about that in a minute because we get a lot of credit um credit repair uh debt

settlement companies like that whole thing. And just a reminder, they do what

you can do. They just make deals. They hold the money for a long time so that you are in default basically. It wrecks your credit.

And then they go in and make deals, which is exactly what you can do and you're already in the position to do that because the thing's been sitting around for however long old on your credit. Just call them up and however much you owe, let's say you owe $1,000 on something, save up 400 bucks cash and say, "This is what I'll give you." They weren't expecting to get your money anyway at this point.

Let's say you were driving down the highway and you had a flat tire and you pulled over.

You can call a tow truck and negotiate with a code tow truck or you can call a

credit repair company, they'll get back in your car and they'll drive it down the highway into a brick wall and then they will call the tow truck company for [laughter] you. That's what they'll do. >> Like just wreck it for me. >> They'll take your credit and they'll they'll hold your money, they'll destroy your financial picture and then they'll

get the same deal you were going to get anyway. Just get $400 in cash, call them.

>> Yeah, that's right. You can do this. I I believe in you. Again, John, there's such a theme on this show about being in control.

This is like the fourth one that we've talked about of just just take control of your destiny. You don't need anybody to do it for you. >> No. And if you call a your a creditor, an old creditor, and they and they say, "Hey, this $1,000 debt's now worth $8,000 in fees and whatever." Say, "I got $400 in cash.

I'll pay it right now." And they'll say, "Well, I'm not authorized." Hang up. Just hang up the phone. >> Hang up and call somebody else back and be as annoying to them as they are to you.

>> [music]

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>> You know, we [music] wish we could get to every single call here on the Ramsey Show, every single question, but it's just not possible. So, if you do have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles.

You'll get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, Aaron in Minneapolis, Minnesota is on line three. What's up, Aaron? How can we help?

>> Hey, how you guys doing today?

>> Chilling. How can we help?

>> So, I just recently turned 19. Um, I am

working full-time. I'm have been dating this girl for almost 2 years now, and we

are about to fully move in together.

Um, she's full-time going to college, yet a university and whatnot, and I live

very close to her campus, and so,

um, usually most of pretty much throughout the entire time of her being a freshman, she's pretty much just stayed at my place all the time. Um, even though she's technically lived at the dorm, but now she's for sure like coming up soon on this next lease. She's fully going to be moving in with me and my roommates, and we just have some financial disagreements.

And we don't really know how to resolve >> roommates do you already have, dude?

>> So, I currently have three roommates.

>> Oh my god, she loves you. She's about to live with four.

Wow, this is different.

>> Yeah, I I got I got really lucky. My rent is very cheap. Obviously, having to do with the fact that I do have roommates, but I get along very well. >> Four bedrooms.

>> Wow. >> Hey, if you if you actually see a future with you and this girl, don't do this. >> Please don't do this. She's going to see too much. She can't unsee the things that she's going to see and experience.

>> Yeah, [clears throat] so >> [laughter] >> so just a little bit Go ahead.

>> Just Listen, dude.

I I was 19, too. I was head over heels in love when I was 19, too. Please don't do this. >> What's her name?

>> Uh her name is um Madeline.

>> Okay, I know you just made that up.

>> I good Hey, I'm proud of you for protecting her. >> And Madeline, wherever you are, please [laughter] don't do this on behalf of women everywhere. I'm scared for you.

>> [laughter] >> Um I I'm making jokes, but seriously with John I'm with John. Please don't do this. Um there's no way that this is good.

There's no There's no good parts to this. in many, many ways.

>> yeah. So, so here's here's kind of where I stand on it. So, the the main reason for it and then again, I I've gotten really lucky. One, my rent is super cheap, and we have gotten along not just me, but me and her cuz like I said, she she's been over at my house constantly every single >> you get along. >> Oh, yeah. Of course Of course Of course.

But yeah, and so we get along very well with my roommates.

We always hang out together.

>> from living together. >> It's [laughter] so different.

>> Very true. Very Very true. But again,

it's kind of >> Tell me why it has You tell me Hey, you tell me why it has to be this way.

Give me Give me three good reasons why it has to be this way. >> Give me one.

>> So, I am currently I Like I said, I work a full-time job. I'm not too old or anything like that. She She has a part-time job, but she does not save her

money. Um she Like I said, we're kind of on two ends of the spectrum when it comes to money and finances. >> be rescuing her.

>> Pretty much. And obviously >> Hold on. Hold on. And she would be using you. Go ahead.

>> [clears throat] >> Um yeah, and it's just obviously, like

you mentioned, you know, young and in love. I'm 19, you know, I I want a

future with her, and I'm trying to overcome some of these things that I'm trying to work things out the best way possible, you know, she She We We

We're from about an hour and a half away from where we currently live. >> Uh-huh. >> Um we're both from the same hometown, and she got the opportunity to go to school up at this place. Um and I didn't

want If If I didn't move out, I was just going to be living with my parents, and I didn't want that. I wanted to get out and kind of >> So, you moved there because she was there.

>> Pretty much. >> Okay. That's all good. >> That's there Listen, I'm going to repeat back to you what you said, and I want you to really think about each one of these because this is My My job here is to make you think. I'm not going to be able to convince you by giving you my opinion. I just want you to think about the things that you said.

First off, you told me I When I said, "Hey, give me three good reasons why this is a great idea." You told me, and I'm going to say them in reverse order. You said, "Well, she was moving there, so I just moved there, too."

She had a plan for her life. I didn't really have much of a plan, so I just went where she was. That was the the last thing you told me.

Then you said, "Well, it's kind of convenient because her lease is up. And so since her lease is up, that's kind of like a convenient thing, so I'll just roll with that.

Then then the next thing you told me was, well, she doesn't really work much, so whatever she's doing now, she's probably not going to be able over to afford it, so I can afford it, so I'll just do that, too. And I'll just rescue her and she can use me. So when you give me those types of reasons, John, all of those are just kind of like, hey, I'm just letting life I'm just rolling.

I'm just letting anything happen that I want to happen, right?

>> Yeah. And and here's the thing, dude, we want y'all to be successful long-term. I want this to work out for you. I like the idea of moving to go be with the person you want to be with. I love that. And you're working your full-time job.

But A, you're bringing her a 19-year-old young woman into a house with three dudes not who aren't going to school, who live very different lives. >> Mhm. >> You are um not aligned on how y'all spend money, how y'all earn money, how you you're not aligned on core values.

And you're not aligned on who's going to pay for what, how are we going to pay This I'm I'm just telling you cuz I want this to work for y'all, dude. I'm a such a romantic at heart.

>> And I know >> Don't do this. >> And and try to think of this is a horrible thing for me to say cuz I don't at 19, your brain is just not there, but if at all you can muster up the thought [laughter] of if your daughter said, I'm

going to go live in a house with four dudes who are 19, >> one of which is my lover, >> you would you would do the Fred Sanford and have a heart attack [laughter] and and AND FALL OUT. THAT'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. NOW, WE DROPPED YOUR CALL on accident. I think the call dropped. You're not here to respond to this, but just know we love you, dude. We're we're rooting for you. We are on your side. We want the best FOR YOU. >> DON'T THIS. Please don't do this.

>> [laughter] >> He's not going to do it. Let's go to April. >> She's in Cleveland, Ohio. April, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um well, my son is 22 years old. He

just uh received a settlement in February. Um so, we are discussing things that he should do, and he already has done some stuff, but we're not sure what to do with the rest of that he has from that we already um like put in investment, and he opened

a growth savings. He did investment. Um

and then he did pay off some things that he had to pay off, and then bought a car. But, we don't know what to do with the rest. >> How how old is your son?

>> 22. >> Okay. And how much money are we talking from the settlement?

>> He got 250,000.

>> What happened?

>> Um he received a a TDAP shot when he was 10, and um he

got a blood disorder, and he had a got his spleen removed. He's good now, um

but it came back and said it was from the shot. So, >> I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, will you do me the You're asking a money question, and we'll get to that right here real quick, but I want you to do me a huge favor.

>> Yes. >> You've been taking care of this boy since he was young, cuz you're a good mom, especially through medical stuff.

I want [snorts] you to put your son in the driver's seat of this situation.

He's a 22-year-old young man.

>> Mhm. >> And so, I want you to I want in your home, I want you to tell your son, "Hey, you know what? I've been saying, 'What are we going to do with this money?' This is your money.

And I will sit by you. I'll help you make wise choices, but you're 22 years old.

>> Right. >> And his his a 22-year-old man needs his

mommy to sit in the backseat or in the driver I mean, in the passenger seat at best. Preferably not in the car at all.

Okay. >> Exactly. >> And I know this is hard, but that's that's that's my two cents there. Jay, what do you think of my plan? >> I get the sense that he's responsible.

>> He is He is responsible. He wants to make He wants to grow. >> Yeah, I I I believe that. And And if I were in your shoes, it sounds like he's paid off his debt. He doesn't have any more debt. It sounds like he has a He has a reasonable emergency fund set aside, yes?

>> Yeah, he So, he he He's a barber. My

husband His dad has been a barber for 20 years. So, now he's a barber and they're at the same shop. So, >> So, he's making a reasonable income. As long as he's making a reasonable income, he's set aside some savings.

I would take this money and honestly, the next big goal for me, and if I were him, I'd be like, "I want to buy a house. And I want to buy I want to put as much down on that house as possible. [music] Maybe I can even buy it completely in cash.

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

We're going back to the phone lines where we have Susan, who's in Huntsville, Alabama. All right, Susan, you're on the line. How can we help?

>> Hi. How are y'all? >> Doing great. What's up?

>> Good. Um I'm excited. Y'all are my favorite hosts, so >> Yes. We're going to We're going to clip that and send it to our colleagues.

>> Don't tell Dave.

>> [laughter] >> Um we're just needing some help navigating our debt. Um we have about 37,000 in debt, and that's including my car debt and credit cards.

And we started in January listening to y'all and um trying to attack those debts, and we're down 5,000 in the credit cards already that we've paid.

>> Great. >> Um but every time it just seems like every time we have that thousand dollars, like life is happening and somebody we've both needed new tires and

um like our fridge went out last weekend and we didn't have the thousand dollars saved back up. So, it felt like a sin, but I had to go put it on a Lowe's credit card. So, now it just feels like we're adding to

um you know, it feels like we're just taking two steps backwards. So, anyways, I just feel sick knowing we're further into debt now than we were and um yeah, it just makes me nervous not feeling prepared when things come up.

So, I just wondered if y'all could help me navigate that. >> Yeah, so here's [clears throat] what I want to say. You know, part of and and we we can do a better job of of saying this, but when you decide, "Hey, you know what? I'm going to work the baby steps.

I'm I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to pay off the debt. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going in hard into this." The almost the number one thing that you need to do next to budgeting, the number one thing you have to do is you have to look yourself in the mirror and say, "I draw a line in the sand. I don't borrow money anymore." I just I do not borrow money anymore unless I'm like John Q in my son is in the you know, remember that movie with Denzel Washington?

>> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And you know, but you see what I'm saying?

And the way the baby steps are, especially baby step one, it's very unique because it's a thousand dollars saved. And I get it in today's world people are going, "You've you're off your rocker, Jade and and John, if you think that a thousand dollars is going to get it." But I the way I explain it, Susan, is a thousand dollars is exactly the amount that it takes to turn on the creative part of your brain.

That to to go, "Okay, if something happens, I actually don't have the money to do this. What else can I do?" And so, when you take debt off the table, suddenly you go, "Well, I don't have to go to Lowe's and buy a brand new fridge.

I could go I don't even know if Craigslist exists anymore, but I could go on Facebook Marketplace and I could buy a slightly used one for the meantime that is maybe $800, but I can scrape

together that cash or $300 and scrape together that cash." Do you see what I'm saying? That is That is the gritty challenge of the baby steps. It causes you to just turn on that brain and go, "Okay, what can I do?

What can I do? Where can I go?" And that's what I want to challenge you from here going forward. I'm not telling you that to beat you up. I'm letting you know that's the way it feels and that's the way it's going to feel. Everything is going to feel inconvenient. Most things are going to feel like a challenge and that's good.

Like that's how you know it's working.

So from here on out, that's got to be the line. That's got to be the feeling.

Otherwise, to your point, it will be two steps forward, one step back or one step forward, two steps back if you don't make that call. So going forward, we got to do that. So when you went So the 37,000 that you quoted me, is that including the new fridge?

>> Yes. >> Okay, great. So now we've got a car. How much of the 37,000 is the car?

>> So we have two car payments. Um one of them is $339 a month. We have about 7K left on it. >> Mhm. >> And then we have a minivan for $630 a

month with about 27,000 left.

>> Okay. >> And last time I checked, we're about 9K underwater on it. >> Oh boy, okay. And on the And then the credit cards are how much the rest of it? >> So a new Lowe's card is 2K.

>> Okay. >> And then we have about a thousand on another credit card left. >> Okay. So my the number one place I'm

looking is at this $27,000 car because it's $630 a month, you

desperately need that money.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah? >> It's hurting us bad. >> It's hurting you bad. And cuz what's your income every month?

>> So my husband does work a lot of overtime, or he does work overtime here and there throughout the month, so it does vary, but we're bringing in about 4,500 to 5,500

um a month. >> Each month? Yeah. I mean, to have that $630 back, that would be like breathing again.

So what my goal would be, and it it's up to you how how you guys do this, but

I would be trying to get out of that $27,000 car.

And you could You're going to have to play this just right, otherwise it's not going to be worth it, but you could say, "Okay, I'm 9,000 underwater. Can I get a loan for the difference, and can I find something that's I don't know While While I'm at it, can I ask for another maybe 4,000, so I'm 13 in, and I just

kind of buy a junker, or I ask for 5,000 more, and now I'm I'm 14,000 in, and I get a junker, and now instead of owing $27,000 to a bank, I owe 14 or 15,000 to a bank?" >> Mhm. >> I would do that.

>> Okay. >> And you start driving husband's car, and he drives the junker. >> Yeah, he drives the junker.

>> I don't know, his is looking rough.

>> [laughter] >> Then you're both driv- YOU'RE BOTH DRIVING junkers for a while. >> And listen listen to what Jade's saying.

I want you to paint the picture of your life right now. You have two cars that you can't afford with brand new tires on them.

>> Yeah. >> You went and bought a $2,000, which is a pretty nice fridge.

>> Mhm. >> The other side of this thing, if you if you have like uh like Stranger Things, if you go to the upside down version of this, you have one car with all the same tires on it. You just know, man, we are we're we're 6 months away.

You have one tire that you got and it doesn't match the other three.

You have a $500 fridge that you got off Facebook Marketplace and you shook hands and that guy said it worked.

And you sell this minivan and you're driving two clunkers. A,

you don't owe anybody anything.

And B, you look around and say, "Hey husband, you and I, we want a different life than this. Let's start being intentional and saving money so we can get another car here, a nicer fridge there." And you start taking control of your life back. Like part of the thousand bucks, part of having one new tire on a car instead of all four new tires is you don't want to stay like that forever. It's a reminder.

And it's it's it's more gasoline in the tank to keep going down this route of freedom, not this this route of let's just solve for today and let all these other people speak into our life, all these other banks, all these other loaning lending agencies.

>> Right, yeah. >> It's not cool for the first year. It's just not. It's miserable.

>> And for you guys, the good news is you're not going to stay there for long.

>> No. >> You're not there long at all because once you do this car deal and instead of paying $630 a month, maybe you're paying two or $230 a month or $330 a month, you

get half that money back and now you're able to use that money along with your other margin and you can knock out the $1,000 credit card in 1 month and then the next month maybe you're able to knock out the 2,000. Like you're going to be done with this. I'm saying I think you can knock this out in a year, but this is with you guys working so hard, him taking all the overtime he can get, you picking up extra work, you guys selling everything you can think of. Go through the garage, go through the attic, go through the basement.

Look [music] at the kids' old clothes. Can I take this? Can I put it on Poshmark? Can I put it on, you know, one of those consignments?

Everything you can do, anything you can do to sell something and get this money.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step-by-step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> All right. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi.

Defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed, but WhyRefi helps you explore refinancing options with a low, fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit whyrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Greg in

How do we determine the best car insurance coverage for our two teenagers? We provided each of them with a used car to get them through high school and college. We own the cars and they each have a value of under 500 I mean 500 5,000 dollars.

We're currently paying for full coverage on them, but I'm not sure if that makes sense. What's your recommendations on how to cover them adequately and not spend an arm and a leg for insurance?

Well, having two teenagers um I just added a teenager to my car insurance.

Woo, so adding two that's tough.

>> It made you feel It made you feel some type of way, John? >> Yeah, my my rule of thumb here is um my son's driving a used truck and it has liability insurance on it. And so I've got enough cash in my emergency fund that if he wrecks that car, I can replace a similar cheap car. You got two

Yeah, you got two 5,000 dollar cars. Um I would personally in my house I'd put liability coverage on them. I wouldn't carry comprehensive coverage. And the difference is liability pays for the car

that your teenager might hit, but not for your car that just got wrecked.

Comprehensive pays for both. And so um

yeah, that's that's what I would do in this situation. Um if if you have a car with payments on it, usually they they force you to have comprehensive cuz they want to make sure they get their money back on their car if you wreck it. Um I have comprehensive on me and my wife's cars. They're nicer cars and so um if they something happened to them, I want to be able to go get them repaired, but for couple of cheapo beater cars like you're going to give your high school kid like yeah, I'd I'd put liability on it and roll with it.

Our term life insurance, our car insurance, everything. >> Yeah, they'll find you the best rates. Very very good. Let's go to Casey in Dallas, Texas. Hi Casey, how can we help?

>> Hey, so oh hi first off. >> Hi. >> Hi, Casey.

>> So, me, wife, two toddlers moved in with

her grandmother uh to pay off debt exponentially fast and start saving.

Um and now we have an expecting third in the middle of July and looking for some advice on a reliable family car. We just

paid off all of our credit card debt, still some student loans left.

>> How much student loans left? How much debt total left?

>> Uh 12.2.

>> Thousand?

>> Yep.

>> Okay. >> $12,200?

>> School uh yes, my wife's school loan, yeah. >> Okay, cool. >> Okay. >> And how's the arrangement with Grandma going?

>> Uh great. I mean, we had to swallow the humble pill, you know, lose some personal space, had a guest storage unit to throw some stuff in, but it's it's honestly been a huge blessing. >> How long are you going to do it?

>> Well, that's the question of the day for me, but um for now it's to finish paying off the school loans, hopefully save up enough for a family car, then start saving for a house.

>> Oh, that's a long timeline. >> be a That could be a minute. How much money do y'all bring in?

>> Uh so, I bring in about So, I have a day job and I do freelance photo and video work and I bring in about $4,500 a month. >> Okay. >> And is Mom home with kids or is she out working in the workforce? >> Mom's home with kids. She caretakes um

us on the side and she brings in about an extra $400 a month.

>> Okay. So, if your initial question is how long would should we continue to do this?

Um I think that I would aim to because how much have you paid off so far? You've got 12,000 to go. How much have you done before up until this point? How long did it take? >> So, we moved in December 1st. As of two

four weeks ago, two three weeks ago, we paid off 13,000 credit card debt.

>> Okay. Um

I I'm going to tell you what I would do.

I think that I I I admire when people are willing to sacrifice to win.

I think this is a This is an imposition on you um as a family and as a a married couple.

It's just really tough to stay in a position like this for long.

Um and so I would try to I would really try to cut it short. When do you think you'll have the 12,000 paid off?

>> Uh crunching numbers, I can do that in about 4 months. >> Okay. >> get more freelance work to come in, for sure I can expedite that.

>> I would not extend this to buying a new

car, saving for a down payment. I would not extend this that far because what this means is and we've gotten a couple of these calls today, so this is nothing on you.

Everything is a series of choices. And so for you guys, your careers are a series of choices, you know, starting a family and the amount of children is a series of choices. And how that affects your financial timeline is a result of that choice and thereby you're choosing that as well. And what I would hate is for you to pass that off onto grandma because it's part of you guys's choices.

Do you see what I'm saying? >> Oh, yeah. >> And even though she's probably like, "Oh, I'm so glad to have them. I get to be by my grandkids and da da da da da da." If you kind of flip the script for a moment and you go, "Well, if if I had a buddy or if I had a family member who was like, 'Hey, let me move in with you for a little while.

I want to pay off my debt. I want to save up for a car. You know, I want to get a down payment.'" You'd be like, "Hold up. Wait a Wait a Wait Wait Wait a second." So, there's a thin line between Do you see what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

>> You You've You've mentioned the family car by adding a having a third kid here in a few months is is that going to exceed your the cars y'all have?

>> Yes, so that's the problem is we only have two little four-seater sedans, so

we got to get a got to get a bigger vehicle, which we want to sell one of them anyway, so it kind of works out. >> I was going to say yeah, it I I would save up the cash and the discipline you're going to have to you and your wife are going to put on the table here is 100% you're going to want to go get a brand new Tahoe or a brand new Suburban or brand new minivan and y'all can afford that.

stains on the carpet or whatever, but that's what we can afford and we're going to pay cash for it and then we're not going to get ourselves further behind.

>> Yeah. >> And by the way, that's all good. It'll be it'll be good. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's a choice y'all are making. So this isn't a thing that's happening to y'all. It's like, no, we picked that minivan cuz we choose freedom as a family over shiny things that go down in value, right? >> And can I ask a question, Casey? I just want to make sure I'm understanding. You're living Are you When you say grandma, is it your kids' grandma? So like her mother or is it your your mother's grandmother?

>> Uh it's my wife's grandma, so it'd be my kids' great grandma.

>> Oh, wow. >> So y'all doing caretaking, too?

>> is that what Is that the arrangement?

>> Yeah, it's kind of a win-win where, you know, she became a widow in 2020, the house she can't keep up with. There's an upstairs, she can't even walk up the stairs. Um she's been lonely, depressed, so >> Okay, so it's not a bad deal. >> It's not bad. Yeah, okay, that that does make it a little different. How old is she?

>> Uh she's she's She'll be 80 this year.

>> Are you expecting to inherit this house?

>> No, we do not want it. No, absolutely not. There's a whole Yeah, I know. >> I was just trying to make I was just trying to see if there was any other parts to this. >> Jade, I can see a world where if with a caretaking arrangement, you can do this for three or four years. If if it works out for your family, y'all got the whole upstairs, you kind of have your own separate life, but y'all get to >> That feels different. I won't lie.

>> Yeah, and and she's brightened up once she gets to live with her great-grandkids. They have agreed every morning. So, she's definitely livened up more. Like I said, it's been it's been a great win-win. >> And that can be a really remarkable experience for young kids if there's just no toxicity and and, you know, you

know what I mean? It's not a It's not a gross arrangement. You all aren't living in a 3-2 and like it it's everybody's Everybody's got some space, but also everybody's involved in the caretaking. So, that can be pretty amazing.

>> Yeah, I think that is good. You know, I I'm going to go back on my ruling here and I'm going to say >> [laughter] >> that I'm okay with this as long as you guys are okay with this. It sounds like she's being served. It sounds like it's a good thing for your family.

And for that reason, yeah, I would ride it out and I'd go back Yeah, to your original plan of saving for a down payment. You know what's funny, John? Financially, um multigenerational households, a lot of times we're kind of like, "Yeah, get out of that." But, that used to be the way. >> That was That was the only way.

>> That was the only way. >> way, yeah. >> Is Is you group up with your folks and you're right, it's so good for kids and >> It's good for kids, good for for grandparents. And but you just got to you got to structure it and do it the right [music] way.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, [snorts] and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> So, if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. Trust me, it's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. Baked right in.

I love that. You can track your progress, plus get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan even faster.

Truly like having one of us in your pocket, walking with you every day, showing you the next step, and holding you accountable. So, start EveryDollar for free today by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, we got Julian in El Paso, Texas, on the line. What's up, Julian?

>> Oh, yes, I'm calling cuz I had a house fire in November of last year and the

insurance company is going to pay me some money to repair, but it's pretty severe. So, I'm wondering if I should use that check to just rebuild and do with the process and keep my normal monthly payment, or if I should take that check, pay off that mortgage for that home, and use the difference to put me and my son into a new place.

>> They're They're not paying you to rebuild the house?

>> Yes, that's the check it's for is for rebuilding the house. It's about $310,000, but with the war and all materials increasing rapidly, I'm they cut the check in November in December, excuse me.

So, I don't know if it'll still continue to cover the cost of the construction, honestly. And I'm kind of in panic mode after the fire, so I don't want to make any decisions >> Yeah. >> emotionally. >> Yeah. So, did everybody get out safe?

>> Yes. >> Can I just tell you, man? >> out safe. >> Yeah. >> I got the two dogs out. >> Good. You You got everybody out safe?

>> Yes. >> Can I just shout you out?

Good on you, Dad. That's what That's I hate to gender this, but that's what dads do, man. You run back in and you get everybody out. I'm proud of you.

>> Sure did. Sure did. >> That's good, man. Um and appreciate you recognizing inside your own chest, "Hey, I'm I'm still in fight or flight from that deal and I'm not making rational choices. I need to get some wisdom." And I want to shout you out, too.

That that That shows a level of >> the other day but I was watching one of your guys' videos the other day and I think Jade said, "Don't make emotions Don't make decisions emotionally charged." And I was like, "You know what? That's it. I have to call." >> All right. Well, I'm glad you did.

So, here's my Anytime I feel a certain way about a thing, I've got real big feelings about a thing that I think the first place I want to do is write down that feeling I have or the feelings. I got a bunch of them.

And the second thing I want to do is I want to go get real on the ground information.

I don't want to scroll the news sites who are screaming and yelling trying to get headlines, trying to capture my eyeballs because they are selling me my attention as a product.

I want to go talk to an actual contractor and get an actual bid or two or three or four on my actual home and get a cost estimate.

And once you're looking at the paper in front of you, my guess is your your next right step will be pretty clear.

Mhm. And you're going to have to pay off the mortgage anyway, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, eventually. It was just in the loan process, so I had been doing

the 13 payments a year thing.

>> Mhm. Okay. >> What did you owe? >> Yeah, what do you owe on the house?

>> I have about I'd sent her a hundred thousand. I've gotten it under a hundred thousand. >> Where are y'all living right now?

>> Um the insurance company gets you like a temporary rental. >> Okay. >> But they only do it for like a year is what they're telling me. So, I'm like, "Okay, so I'm six months into my year.

My construction hasn't started cuz your contractors haven't done a lot of the pack out of my belongings and things that they're supposed to do, and I'm getting into panic mode again that since the no actions being taken

>> I I >> I'm going to >> But is the action to be taken something you should be doing, or is it something they're supposed to be doing?

>> No, it's one of their contractors that they're supposed to be sending in to pack out my house so that it is ready for a bid and and stuff like that.

>> Okay, so so you need a contractor their clock should not start until the house is ready to be worked on.

>> Is that how that works? >> I I don't >> That makes sense. >> know how that works, but that would be my legal argument is I I I want you to have a lot a a bid in hand ready to rock and roll the day that this stuff is done, but I don't think your clock should start until they have finished their work. >> Mhm.

>> Right?

>> Yeah, they give me a one-year lease in this temporary housing, so that's why I'm in a panic mode, you know?

>> Yeah, let's let's feel the panic and then let's you're not going to solve panic by thinking about panic. You're going to solve panic through and you're going to by going right through it. Action.

Okay? And if you hate this house, you're scared of this house, I would rather you um this may not be the wisest thing to do.

I'd rather you fix this house up, get it rebuilt, get it redone, get it clean as a whistle and then choose to sell it then cuz you're going to pay this thing off, you're going to have a burned down house on a lot that you own. You're going to have to do something with it, right? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> At some point the HOA is going to come sue you. Somebody's going to come like >> going to have to be rebuilt regardless.

>> have to do something with it.

And so what I would hate for you to do is to take this money, go buy something else, be responsible for two mortgages and then get a bill from the city that says, "Hey, you got to go deal with this burned out home." You can't just have a burned out house in the middle of a neighborhood, right? >> Yeah. And the reason it seemed okay to me is because I would only have one mortgage and it'd be substantially less because I would use that construction money instead to pay >> I know, but what we're saying is you can't just >> You can't just leave the lot burned there.

So what you're saying is out of the 310, you'd pay off the 100,000 and take the other 200 and buy something else.

>> Yes, and then what I would do with that is I would eventually, you know, go back to the house. They're they're pretty close to each other, the one that I'm eyeballing, and I would still continuously be working on it, but my I

hate trusting in contractors, mechanics, uh >> Oh, what money would you use?

>> I'd like to get my own contractor's license, honestly. >> Yeah, but but you're talking years.

>> Yeah, and how would you fund it if you've already spent the money on on a different home?

>> With my mortgage payment pretty much that I would need I wouldn't have.

>> Got it. Okay.

Yeah, I I'm with John. I think you're going to cause yourself more headache if you if you do it if you don't do it this way because now you're going to have to figure out well how long can this lot sit like this in in my neighborhood?

What does the HOA say? What does the city say? Right? You've got some you've got >> I'm afraid the city is going to come do it for you and they're going to send you a bill for $75,000.

>> Yeah, you've got your work cut out for you. Now I I don't even know if this is possible. So this is something you could research, but if you're like hey, I'll clean off the lot and I'll get it fresh.

Can we sell the lot >> Absolutely you could do that.

Sell to a developer, yeah. >> And then and then if they give you I don't know 100,000 for the lot, you take that and that that makes you clear with the mortgage company. You see what I'm saying? And now you can take >> I hadn't considered that.

>> That's that's where my mind is going, but again you're going to have to research and make sure that you have the ability to do that. I don't see why you wouldn't, but just do some due diligence on that, but it seems like you don't want to live there anymore and I totally understand that.

Does that make sense?

>> Mhm. >> But you're not the meta of what we're saying is you're not working with real information.

And I want you to go get I want you to do the work to go get real information and you can say I don't trust contractors and whatever.

You're going to have to deal with contractors. So call a couple of friends that you respect and um find a guy that or company or that you trust or that they trust, right?

>> Mhm. >> And find out how much it would cost to raise the build like this house to the ground. Find call a couple of real estate developers and ask them how much they would pay you just to walk away from the thing.

>> Okay. >> Right? >> And I only felt like I was locked into like those two options and then this is opening up a lot of ideas for me.

>> Good. >> But I want you to listen, stop thinking about ideas and start getting after it.

I think when you get some real data and some real information in front of you, you might find that you can re- like fix this house and by the way, get it all back up to code, the wiring, everything, get it all perfect how you want it.

Um and it might cost 150 grand and you might still have a bunch of extra money laying. Who knows? Who knows what the deal is? >> [music] >> Um >> The point is you've got op- you've got lots of options. >> Yeah. And I'd be on the phone with my insurance company >> [music] >> about them following through with their responsibilities.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all of those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, our Ramsey Show scripture and quote. >> [music] >> Second Timothy 2:15, also known as 2:15, says, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. [music] >> John Carmack said, "Focus is a matter of deciding what things you're not going to

do." I know that's right, John.

>> And I'm sitting by my friend J A D E, otherwise known as Jade.

>> [laughter] >> Listen, when I said it, it gave me 2 Corinthians vibes, and so I needed to I needed to say it back the right [laughter] way.

>> I'm digging to read the Bible. I love IT. >> TO STOP. I DO READ IT, I PROMISE, [laughter] AND I also know how to say numbers.

>> I love 2 Corinthians. >> All right. Sean is in Spokane, Washington. Sean, please get us back on track. How can we help?

>> Hey, Jade, John. Pleasure to be talking with you. >> You too, man.

>> The the crux of my question is trying to really understand stork mode.

>> Ah. >> You got a kid coming?

>> Uh yeah, I do. Yeah, we are expecting.

>> Congrats. That's exciting.

>> Yeah, um baby is due in October.

>> Are you doing all right? >> Is it baby number one?

>> [laughter] >> Uh for for me, yes.

So this will be this will be baby one.

>> Okay. >> All right. >> [clears throat] >> Can I just tell you >> Yeah. >> your panic is real, your fear is real,

and I'm telling you on the other side of this thing, um like another chamber opened up in my heart that I didn't know existed. I did not know love like I thought I knew it.

So, buckle up, man. It's about to be the ride of your life. I'm excited for you.

>> Yeah, it's all good.

>> Thank you. Um I'm super excited, too. My wife is healthy, baby's healthy, so all

those good checkboxes are there.

>> Perfect. All you can ask for. >> Good. >> So, how can we help? You want to explain stork mode, huh? So, that means you guys what do you have going on? You've got some debt?

>> Uh so, backstory is 2 years ago we got

debt-free, and then last year we were all one income. My wife was working, she finished school, and so now we're back to two incomes.

Um and then now we're expecting.

So in terms of saving for the emergency fund, we're about two months in terms of

that savings total.

>> Baby step one or baby step two?

>> Uh >> Or I mean or baby step three. Okay, great. >> Yeah, so we're in we're in three with almost two months saved. >> Great.

>> Um her her desire, right? It's been a grind

for her two years now, would be to go on a trip to Italy. Go go explore

Europe. Place that she she's baby she's lived there previously and it would just be a joy for her to show me her stomping grounds and um you know, we take the whole family.

>> What's that cost? >> be I'm I'm I'm estimating between 15 to 18,000.

>> Okay. And when would you do that?

>> That would be um mid to late July.

>> Do you have time to save up that money by then?

>> Um we could cash flow it and then that

means we're not really saving in stork mode.

So I kind of wanted to get an idea of where this whole stork mode and >> Stork mode is is is Stork mode is something we tell folks like and I'll tell you especially as a first-time parent, if you're paying off debt and like you have a baby coming in six months, you can pause paying off debt and just put cash aside just to make sure if something happens, there's a NICU stay or there's an emergency section or something. I've got that I don't I'm not going to get us out of out of debt six months and then have to go all the way back six months.

So this cash is on the side just to make sure everybody gets home from the hospital and we didn't have to spend any extra money.

>> Does Does the money that you have saved, does that cover your out-of-pocket max for your family like for your for wife and baby?

>> Yes. >> And is there anything left over after that with what you have saved now?

>> Um maybe 10,000. >> Okay, that's a that's a pretty sweet spot. So So >> And is mom going to stay at home with the kiddo after or is she going to go back to work?

>> She'll be going back to work. >> Okay. So it's not like you're going from one income down to two.

I mean, I'm sorry, for two incomes down to one.

>> Yeah, correct. Yeah, we we both go back to work, you know. >> Okay. What's your living situation? Are you renting, owning?

>> Uh we're currently renting.

I'd love to own a home, maybe this time next year. >> Okay. Um uh you know, I think that you have the emergency fund that you need. I'd love for you to get at least to 3 months before you consider this because then you can officially kind of tick the box and say all right, we got we got through the three hardest steps.

And then if you want to move a little bit slower getting the 6 months because again, whether you have three to six months and this is for anybody listening, you you throw several things into the equation, right?

If you're single and you're the only one working, yeah, you need 6 months. Uh but if you have two working folks, you could opt for three or four months if you wanted to. Uh is everybody healthy? And that's the one part where for you guys, it's not that your wife is unhealthy, but she's in pregnancy mode which means there's a lot of variables there.

So I personally, I'm not going to lie to you, I love the idea of if you had 6 months saved, that would just personally make me feel great. Next on the list is, well, let me at least make sure I have out-of-pocket maximums covered and some extra money on the side just because when you go through pregnancy, hospital stays, there's there's extra meals that you need and there's, oh my gosh, I can't believe we didn't buy this one item that we really, really need, like, right? >> Are you I I I was stunned. I thought baby went to the bathroom once a day like a regular person.

I didn't know they went 400 times. Like, diapers. Whatever you have budgeted, quadruple it, right? Like, so things like that.

You they it just expenses come out of nowhere. >> Yeah, I'm all for trips, too. Um what's you guys' income?

>> Um combined, about 240.

>> 240. Um I think that in the parameter of

your income, like I said, I'd love for you to get to uh 3 months of expenses, and I think you probably can cash flow that. And I think that you can cash flow this trip. My My My thing for you would be it's got to be you can't touch the emergency fund for this whatsoever. It's got to be completely cash flowed. And

yeah, and it with with reasonable spending, I think that that's totally fine. >> Can I ask you one more question, brother? >> Please. >> Do you want to go on this trip?

It's just It's just you and me and a couple of million people listening.

>> I I I've never been.

And it's it seems it seems dreamy. I am

a spreadsheet guy, so I'm like I don't know. >> You're thinking about this is home This is down payment money, right?

>> Yeah, well, that's just it, right? You look forward in the next year, and it's like you know, that's 5% of what we're trying to put down on a home, maybe even 10, depending on where we land.

>> So, is is there is there a conversation to be had that you sit down and say, "I want to go to Italy, too. Sounds dreamy," to use your words.

Is there a a possibility that we wait till the little one is 18 months old?

And at that point, here's a here's a map, we have a home, and we cash flow this thing, we got an emergency fund, and we're just going to postpone this trip from trying to cram it in right now to I want to do this thing up right.

Is that a possibility?

>> I mean, yeah, I think about like I'm I'm over 6 ft, so I'm like I'm going to be crammed in that airline for 10 hours.

>> Yeah, I mean, I I've done that. I I've gone to Italy, but I've flown international and a I'm a big guy. Like it just kind of is, right? I mean >> I don't know. I'm going to play on the other side of this coin because this is your first baby. This is I think she's viewing this as this is our last this is

our last cuz listen, with an 18-month-old I wouldn't want to go I mean life changes in so many ways.

>> right?

>> Uh correct, yeah. >> How many does she have?

>> One. I have a stepson.

>> How how old is he?

>> Nine. >> Okay. >> So there's like at 9 years old they can go off with the grandparents or with the aunt or whatever. >> Or go with you. >> Yeah. But I just think she's seeing this as she knows that independence changes

greatly when you have a baby on your hip. So I I would try to figure out a

way that you can do a trip. Maybe the compromise is we don't spend as much or we don't go for as long or but I think

there's a way you can meet in the middle because the truth is you guys have a great income. Um you do have time to do the house.

There's no there's no rush for either of these. I just I wouldn't want you to miss out on um experiences too. Like as

you're getting financially stable and as you're Does that make sense? Cuz you're doing like you're on track. You're doing the things. You've paid off the debt. You've got the emergency fund. You've got all these other things in place. I just think that there is a level of enjoyment that you can have. Um I would probably say yeah, 15,000 not 18,000. But other than that, I think you guys are on the right track.

All right, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us this hour and remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily [music] with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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## 124. Own Your Circumstances or They’ll Own You | February 18, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. The

phone number, jump in, it's8825-5225.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to be with you and we're ready to take your calls. Nancy gets us started off in Jackson, Mississippi.

Nancy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I'm considering filing bankruptcy and I'm not sure if that's the right move for me right now.

>> Okay. Tell us why you're considering it.

My husband, who I've been separated from for about 2 years, he's going to be filing and I have 25,000 in credit card debt.

>> Do you mean filing for divorce? Is that what you're talking about? >> No bankruptcy. He's the one that wants to file for bankruptcy for himself.

>> Correct. >> Okay, gotcha. Okay, keep going.

Um, since we're separated, I'm taking care of all the bills and so the credit card bills have been a pretty good

amount each month. Um, so I'm considering it to take that load off, but in the future, I'd like to be able to still get home loans. I used to flip houses. I'd like to get back into that, but I don't know how much a bankruptcy will hurt me if I should just do

>> Okay. >> I mean, would you loan you money after going through a bankruptcy?

Probably not. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a better way out of this, Nancy. And I know it feels like the walls are coming in right now. You've got a lot of life happening. And so, step one is to look at some facts. So, fact number one, is your name on all these credit cards?

>> Um, the 25K my name is on debt is

separate that he's going to file for.

>> Good. Okay. So, is that your total debt or is there other debts as well?

>> That's my only debt for me personally.

Okay, great. And what is your income?

>> It really varies and fluctuates. I go from anywhere a,000 a month to 3,000 a

month. >> What do you do?

>> I'm a transaction coordinator for a real estate company and I am a photographer.

>> Do you have any um control over that

variation from one to three a month? In other words, uh more effort or uh just

being more available. Do you have any control over that?

>> I don't. It depends. I I work basically per contract and I never know how many contracts I'm going to get each month. >> And is there an exclusivity? I just don't understand that role in that industry. Well, so forgive me if that's a silly question, but is there any exclusivity uh to where you couldn't do that for another uh broker or something like that in order to get more contracts and more money?

Um, I'm not really sure. I've been loyal

to this company because they're promising in a few months that I'll be moved to a full-time salary position,

>> okay? >> But it's not guaranteed. It's based on his eb and flow of his company, >> right? And I appreciate loyalty. Love loyalty. Don't want to dismiss loyalty.

But if there's no exclusivity and it's not a conflict of interest is the is the meat of my question, then in other

words, an ethic, then you could still

work for them and still step into this full-time role if it materializes, but you could also start getting more contracts and thus more money. And I'm I'm jumping in here. George is going to pick back up, but I'm I'm trying to address the income issue. And so you

need to look into that. By the end of this week, at the latest, you're finding out the answer to my question. Do you still understand my question?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Because that would theoretically be uh maybe the quickest way or the best way to get more income. Am I tracking, George? >> Yeah. >> And if not, that's what I'm seeing here.

>> Pick up a job >> because of what George is about to tell you. So Nancy, like right now is when we

need to increase our income. And I mean urgently. And and George, why? Well, what does she do with this increased income? >> Well, if you think about it this way, Nancy, two grand a month towards your credit card, that's done in a year, >> right? So, now you're going, "Sweet.

Must be nice to have two grand extra on top of your bills." It is nice. And that's where if you made $4,000 consistently and your bills were 2,000, well, now we have a fighting chance to get out of this.

So the next question is why are you covering all of the bills for the household? >> My husband's currently unemployed.

>> And why is that?

>> Well, he's been using drugs for the last four years and so we've been separated for the last two years.

>> Is he and he's still living at the house? >> No, >> he's not living at the house.

>> No. >> Okay. So, what bills are you responsible for uh for him?

for him? None. Just the one. Just I just pay the mortgage, the all the utilities, and Okay. my credit card. >> So, you've essentially been on your own financially for how long?

>> Um 100% since May. Um we've separated

multiple times. So, this time I think >> And it's over for good.

>> We don't know yet. Um but I'm I I'm

leaning that way without a miracle from God. >> And do you have any kids?

I have two, a three and a four-year-old.

>> And they're at your house.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> And the four-year-old is special needs, which is my reluctance to Okay.

>> take on more hours.

>> I totally understand. Didn't know that.

>> Uh but but

what we're trying to help you understand is you don't need bankruptcy.

>> I would rather see these cars go to collections and you settle them later than you go through a bankruptcy. It will do less damage to your financial future. So, what you need to focus on now, >> yeah, >> is your four walls, Nancy. That means you put food on the table. You're going to cover all your utility bills, the mortgage, all of that comes first before

you pay the credit card company a single dime. And if you can't pay them that month cuz you had to put food on the table, I don't care about the credit card companies hunting you down, being upset, calling you, whatever. They're going to threaten to sue you. It's going to go to collections. If that's what it takes in this season, that's what it takes. But the bankruptcy is going to cost you money. Money that you don't have right now, >> right? >> So, it's actually cheaper and more financially wise to choose the other.

You know, this is a rock and a hard place. And so, we're just going to choose the rock right now, which is the credit card debt.

>> So, stick with it. Make the minimum payments if you can. Make extra when and if you can, and soon you're going to be out of this. This is not a forever season. Right.

>> Right. >> Do the children have child care while you're at work? How does that how does that work for you guys? >> I work remote, so I'm I take care of them all the time.

>> Okay. So, what might be helpful is to find a full-time remote role that is sooner. And you might need to talk to your to your boss and say, "Hey, listen.

I'm going through one of the hardest seasons of my life. I need some stability right now with my income. I can't risk having a $1,000 month >> and therefore I need to go find XYZ job." Now, they might fasttrack and go, "Hey, you know what? We'll start you full-time now if you can handle it." Yeah, >> but you don't have the option of just waiting around hoping for this job to materialize.

>> And Nancy, while you're waiting on that miracle, I'm also going to throw out there, you got to get some community. If you don't have community, go get involved in a church. It's not the worst thing in the world.

This marriage is completely up in the air. We totally understand. Uh, but you

have got while praying for a miracle, hoping for a miracle, you've got to act as though you're divorced in in the sense of taking care of you and the kiddos. And you've been doing that, by the way, and you're amazing. But it's okay for you to raise your hand and say, "I need some more help." And uh and so

we just hit you with a lot. Um, but you're going to be okay. And and bankruptcy is not the plan for you. I think George gave you really tactical advice and we're rooting for you and we're very very sorry that you've been put in this very difficult situation.

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All

right, let's go to Ashley in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi there. Um, so nice to talk to you

all. I'm so excited. Um, so first off, and most importantly, my boyfriend and I just had a baby. Um he's 11 weeks old right now. Um boyfriend is a car

salesman and has not been making sales.

So I have been paying all of our bills

and I can barely cover or I can just cover our bills now. Um and we've been doing okay. But when I need to go back to work in just about a month, we're sending the baby to daycare. And in the area we live in daycare can be up to $3,000 a month and there's no way I can

afford it anymore. So, with uh my

boyfriend not making any sales and we don't know when and if he's going to start making sales, I'm really struggling to figure out how we're going to make it. >> Okay. A lot here. So, >> yes. >> What Let's talk about your income first, just because you're not married, and I know your boyfriend is the father of the baby, and I appreciate all that. We'll get to him in a moment. I got thoughts on that whole situation.

>> Boy, do I have some thoughts, George.

Um, but what what what's going on with you and your ability to make more money?

What what's happening there? I understand the I understand the uh the outrageous cost of child care, believe me, but what has changed? Because the way you kind of laid that out, I'd like to know what's behind all this.

>> So, um, I I make So, I make $145,000 a

year. Um, I work in tech.

>> Fantastic. >> Yeah. So, and I I live in um the city is

pretty expensive. Um and it's a very

long story behind this that I don't want to get into, but basically I live in my dad's house and when my boyfriend moved in actually just like pretty recently,

um my dad increased the the rent of this

house. So, um, it's now $3,000 a month,

which isn't astronomical, but with all

the bills and, um, >> what was it prior to?

>> It was, uh, 2,200 prior to that.

>> Okay. So, you had an $800 increase there. Uh, what's your debt situation?

>> Uh, I stupidly have a car that, um, I

still owe about $15,000 on it. Um, but

that's it. No credit card debt or or school loans or anything else. >> Okay. So, George, a quick analysis.

She's making good income. Very good.

>> Your income is great. It sounds like he's about to be a stay-at-home dad if he doesn't come up with income quick.

>> That's >> Is he capable of that? Would you even trust him with that role?

>> That is the the problem. I I wouldn't

necessarily trust him and we've been having a lot of relationship issues.

>> Okay. Rule number one, don't have a baby with someone you wouldn't trust to watch your child. >> Yeah. But it was it was not We did not plan it this way.

>> Okay. Well, okay. Whoa. Whoa. Okay. All right. >> So much so much so much there. And okay, I'm not going to dive into that lane, although I get it.

>> And to that point, he shouldn't be your boyfriend.

He because of that moment

uh is the father of this child, but you

don't trust him to actually be the father of the child. Let's just be really really gut level honest. you should dump this guy really soon.

Multiple reasons why. And I'll and I'll give it back to George and we'll start walking through some money stuff. But number one, you didn't want to have a relationship with the guy. Number two, you didn't want to have a kid with him.

Number three, you don't trust him to actually watch your kid.

Number four, he can't sell cars.

>> So, he's dead weight right now. this guy doesn't need to be in a relationship with you and he certainly does not need to be in that house with you.

>> So, I would legitimately dump him for those four reasons. And by the way, you

can quote me and he can go watch this segment on YouTube. And I'm not trying to be unkind to him. I just He needs a

wakeup call of adulthood. And the wakeup

call is you going, "Buddy, as George said, you're dead weight. You're out." So, he's done done. Gone. And And maybe he wakes up.

Uh but but we've got to make plans as though he's not going to wake up. Okay.

There's my there there's your you've got to make this decision in light of the money advice that we're going to give you. All right, George. Bringing you in here on $145,000, $15,000 worth of debt.

>> Yeah. Okay. You you called in saying that you don't have enough to cover the bills or it's getting tight. I want to challenge the expenses here because >> Yeah. Can you rent for $1,600 a month in

your area? >> Um, so that that is the another like the

complication that I would be a whole separate call that I kind of don't I think we probably don't have time to get into. >> You're a prisoner in this home, aren't you? >> Basically, yes. >> I had a feeling dad needs you to pay this money. >> Oh, he actually does it. Dad could get somebody else. >> Yeah, it's not your problem. What's actually keeping you in this house?

Um, it's such a long story. I I >> You don't have to give us You don't have to give us a long story, but think twice if you're okay, Ashley. We just want to know. >> I am fine. It's I'll try to say it in in

20 seconds. So, um, my dad bought the house a bunch of years ago. It's appreciated in value significantly. Um, like doubled in value, like it's it's a

multi-million dollar house. Um, he is in

very poor health. He's actually in the hospital right now for the third time in the last two weeks. Um, and he says if

he sells the house, he would incur a massive uh tax bill and if we wait until he passes away, then we won't incur the tax bill. >> You'll inherit it. >> So, yes. >> Yeah. With a step up in basis.

>> Correct. Correct. >> That is true. That still doesn't mean that we can sit paying three grand a month forever. So, I wonder if you kicked the deadbeat boyfriend out and get some roommates. That's George's uh go-to. >> I like that plan.

>> Now, you don't need to sell the car. I think you can pay it off aggressively, but you're bringing home what, eight or nine grand a month?

>> Yeah. >> Have you found a budget?

>> Uh, I do. Yeah, I've I'm pretty um

buttoned up about it. I've >> So, what's the car payment?

>> Um car payment is 350. I'm currently

paying 700 per month on it to knock out the principal. We're looking at these things here. Trying to speed this up. George, I've got 3,000 in rent. I've got

3,000 in child care.

>> Future daycare. >> I got 350 in a car payment. So, we're right at 6,500 immediately. >> You got 1,500 left to pay for gas, food,

insurance, >> and a tiny bit of fun money.

>> Yeah. >> Now, that's not like amazing, but it's a

good start, and it gets you to survive and thrive on your own. But >> but George, what's the quick fix on that? And I think we've already talked about it. I mean, she can make some moves. A roommate. >> Yeah. If you can get this rent down, you're gonna free up. I mean, think about it. You split it with two people.

Now, you're talking three of you in there. You're paying a,000 bucks a month, if not more. You might charge them more than, you know, a,000 bucks for their spot. And I'm going to I' I've given this advice a million times and people may be sick of it, but I think instead of the traditional institutional child care, can you find an a retired grandmother who's bored out of her mind and has got all the motherly instincts?

We did this with our kids when my wife was working full-time and it's a fraction of the cost.

>> If you're paying three grand in child

care, what if you paid 1,500? And I'm not telling you that's the number, but I'm just we're trying to give you real solutions here between a roommate and a awesome grandmother in your community would love to take care of your little guy. That's slashing your cost in half.

>> Yeah. >> And even shared nanny situations exist

in your neighborhood. >> We we break up or at least kick dead beat out. I'm not telling you to break up with him at this point, although I would. Uh but if we kick him out and then hopefully he wakes up, starts selling something.

>> The sad part is we just have to assume that it's going to be status quo and that he's not going to contribute. You have to craft a plan forward with or without him. And right now it's without him. >> What did I leave out, George? What else would you do on that reducing cost now that you know what her margin is?

>> I mean, you're going to have to keep this job you have, hopefully it's steady, and work on getting rid of all the expenses in your life. The car is one of them. Bringing down the rent. I can't, you know, solve the daycare problem instantly, but I think you at least have more options than you think.

And even then, you got some room left over, which isn't a terrible thing. So, I would use every dollar, craft a budget tonight, and then go, what does the next 6 months look like? What does the next year or two look like? And hopefully, this is just a season, and you'll be out of it.

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>> All right, let's go to Chelsea in Kansas City. Chelsea, how can we help today?

Hi, I needed um just some kind of input.

I've been able to successfully pay down since July over 12,000 in debt.

>> Way to go. >> Um I've been working super hard at it.

>> That's awesome.

>> Um but I have so I move I did like a credit card balance transfer that had no interest. So I have no interest until October. And so I still have 6,000 remaining on that. Do you guys have any input on how I can pay down the rest of that 6,000 by October? Because what I've

been doing is $100 each week and any extra left over from my paychecks, I take like either half or most of it towards that credit card to get it as low as possible. So that way I can

consolidate as much of that as possible.

>> So what has that been averaging out to?

Um, probably around 450 to 500 uh a month.

>> Okay. And you said you want to know how could you pay the rest of the 6,000 off by October.

>> Yes, that's my that's my goal at least to try and get to.

>> It should be more than a goal. It should be this is on fire because what's going to happen is they're going to back charge you 29% APR which is exactly why they offer these 0% cards. They're betting against you, Chelsea.

hoping you don't pay it in time. >> Yeah. You know, I'd go old school. This is the way I I'm wired. So, this may not work for you. Okay. But the first thing that came to my mind is I would take how many months that is. So, what is it? Seven months from now or six.

>> Um I think six now.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, that's February. Five weeks a month. >> That's exactly what I do. The old school division and that's what it's going to take. But your question was how? But we

got to first get with the what? And so it's a it's a minimum of you know I mean that's your average a thousand bucks a month. So how do I make an additional thousand bucks a month is is essentially

the question I would then be asking and I think that's doable. How much do you make in a month?

>> I bring home4100 a month.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> I do insurance.

>> Well George is the budget king here. And so he if anybody could crunch it and try to find that case or some of it he he could and I'll give it to him.

>> But I would say George I think she also needs to look at a second job uh selling

everything kind of the basic stuff we've said for decades. And I just think Chelsea that's your number. And I I think if you circle $1,000 and put it on your mirror, your refrigerator, put it all over the house and it becomes so much a focus for you >> visceral. you will make that additional thousand bucks a month.

And I think if you gamify it, it I think it's something you'll look back on 30 years from now and go that was one of the most inspiring things I ever did. That's my two cents on this.

>> Uh, no, not now. I was previously had

Bitcoin and I had profited $1,500. So, I went ahead and withdrew that just at the highest peak that it had in October.

>> Good. >> Um, you put that on that and put that on this credit card. Yeah. >> Okay. Do you have anything else in savings?

>> Um, technically I don't have a savings, but I always keep a month and a half's worth of my rent in a separate checking account. So, my rent only goes in and out of that. I have my paycheck split.

>> Okay. And what are your total expenses to cover your rent, food, utilities, all of that? >> Um, around 3,200.

>> Okay. Hence it being pretty tight at the end of the month to throw money at this credit card. So that's where we need to figure out, hey, how much of this 3200 can we free up? And that might mean we

are not eating out. We're going to get real intense about budgeting. Every single penny is going to be accounted for. And we're going to get a second job. >> All of that. I mean, you you don't need a huge number to throw a,000 at the debt. You need like a few extra $100

>> cuz you said you're you're able to throw, you know, 500 bucks a month right now. So you need an extra 500 on top of that. >> There you go. So that becomes the number.

And so you can do the math and go, "Hey, if I get a job making 15 an hour, here's how many hours I need to work. If I can do whatever Uber Eats, Instacart, Door Dash, whatever the thing is, if I do it this many hours, here's how much I can reliably make." >> Yeah.

>> You have time on your side and energy.

Something Ken and I do not have.

>> Not true. Speak for yourself. You're very inactive and and you have no gluten, so that's your problem.

>> This is about Chelsea. Let's other hand, I'm very active and I'm okay with gluten. I have plenty of energy. Thank you very much, George.

>> We're having fun. We're having fun. >> Somewhat young. I probably sound younger than I am. >> How old are you? How old are you?

>> I'll be 35.

>> Trust me, that's young. Go ahead, George. >> I'm your elder. >> Take the shot here. I'm >> No, I'm not going to mention Ken's age on air. >> You're pulling me into the low energy deal. I don't know about that.

>> But can you do this for 6 months? That's what we're asking. Can you make the sacrifice to become completely >> 100 extra bucks a month? That's the challenge. Can you do it?

>> I I I think so.

>> I need a little more confidence. >> I don't like that answer. I don't like that answer.

>> I I feel like I can. I definitely could be eating out less. Uh because that's been about four to five times a month.

So, I could cut that down to maybe once.

>> What if you went for a Z month as far as

spending on things that weren't absolutely necessary to survival? And I promise you, eating out is not necessary to survival as much as it can feel like it.

Yeah, I definitely I definitely could do that >> and then do it then try it the next month and then it becomes a game. It's addictive and you want to see how much money you can save and then all that money going towards the credit cards will validate the sacrifice.

>> That's what you need right now. You need to see some progress and you thought you saw progress with the 0% balance transfer. What really happened is you paid the credit card company 3 to 5% of the balance for the pleasure of delaying the interest.

That's all it was. >> Right. cuz yeah, I've been cuz well doing that because my credit card payment was so high, I was able to

um basically eliminate the interest and actually make a dent in it.

>> Yeah. Which is great. I'm I'm happy that you're able to make more progress than you would have, but we need to take advantage of that right now and go, okay, we're actually going to attack debt harder because of this, not get comfortable because the interest isn't racking up. Because I promise you, behind the scenes it is. And October 1st, it's going to hit and that interest will we'll charge you. >> What's the four to five times eating out a month? What do you think that adds up to?

>> Probably a couple hundred.

>> Looks like we just found our debt payoff money. >> Wow. >> I I think so. >> So, your side hustle has become not eating out. >> Yeah. But I still want to see you I still I want to see you uh not just

>> hold back activity. I want you to do something too. and and that intensity uh

combined with sacrifice. So effort plus sacrifice is what I think is is a really powerful combo. >> That's a good combo right there. That's a good formula for life. >> What? >> Effort plus sacrifice.

>> Yeah. >> If you just do those two things, you will be successful. >> I think I think you're right. I think uh I didn't plan to but that's true. It's it's actually true in any area of your life. Think about relationships.

Put in the effort, guys, to be a good

husband.

Sacrifice as much as you can when you can, how you can. >> That looks like serving in a relationship. >> That's a big win relationally, physically.

>> I mean, you know, on the pickle ball court, >> there's pickle ball, there's the weight room. Two things that you would do well to introduce into your life. >> I would not darken the door of a weight room. I'll tell you that right now.

>> What are the chances that I get you in the wait room in this 2026?

>> Uh, if we filmed it for content, I think we could do it. >> Okay. As long as I've always had a vow to my wife and kids and close friends that I'm never going to post anything on social media where I'm working out, I think that is tacky. I don't like it. Uh

but if it's you and I'm holding the phone and watching you and and encouraging you to get that five pound dumbbell curled up on each side, >> each side that would be I think that's the content that America needs to see.

>> That's good. I much prefer a financial sacrifice and effort. I can do that all day long. Yeah, but see that's my point.

That to you is not a whole lot of effort. You are you are naturally tight and frugal. >> Tell my muscles. >> You are you're tight there too, but that's your anxiety. That's a whole another issue. All right. So, can I get this on the record? >> Yeah. >> I'll talk to your social media person.

>> Yep. >> I'll talk to mine. >> You will be my personal trainer for a day. >> I'm just going to be there to cheer you on and try to make it fun. >> No, it's a competition. >> America's going to need some comments that they hear while you're in workout gear. Number one. Number two, doing workout moves. >> I guess we got to go shopping for workout gear now. Not sure I own that.

>> You don't have any workout gear.

>> I try not to cuz if I have it, I'll probably work out. >> I thought I saw it on the I thought I saw it on the Ramsay cruise.

>> I Yeah, I was in there. That was only to get to the sauna. You got to go through the gym.

>> Folks, don't go anywhere. We got more

coaching calls and George is going to do some push-ups real quick. Get his energy up.

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>> Hey, um I'm am really just wondering, am

I being a little bit too aggressive on

my uh student loan debt repayment?

>> Are you starving?

>> No, >> probably not. But give us the numbers.

Uh, so my wife and I have

about 70,000 total in student loan debt.

>> Okay. >> Um, since March of 2025, I've made um almost $25,000

in payments. Um,

and I guess I just worry, is is that too

much to be paying when I only have a

$1,000 emergency fund with a wife and a

2-year-old?

>> Well, you've been doing this for a year now. How's it been going? You like the progress you've been making?

>> Yeah, I I do like the progress. I'm

almost done.

I've almost completely paid off my bachelor's degree loans. Um, so I really

just have a my master's degree loan and

then my wife's uh bachelor's loan, which

is um she she might have the uh public

service loan forgiveness as a teacher.

So, >> all right. So, let's let's just back into this a little bit. So, the $2,000 a month is essentially what you've been putting away, correct? to the loans.

>> Correct. It was a lot less

>> at first. >> But is that a zerobased budget? Is that 2,000? There's no other margin left. Is that essentially your margin if we were to look at your budget?

>> Uh, no. There there's probably much more

margin. >> You could put three or four towards the debts a month.

>> Yeah. >> So there's your answer. By definition, you're not being aggressive enough. Oh boy. I had a feeling you were going to come off the top ropes on that one. >> I just I mean I'm looking at these numbers and going you're going to do this for three more years at this rate cuz I think yes that's too much sacrifs

and your income. >> I agree. I was just trying to give him enough time to let it sink in that he's not doing that that you have margin. So this is not reckless behavior. That's how you position the question, right?

Too aggressive. In other words, unwise.

But to George's point, >> I would have told you it was unwise to go $100,000 into student loan debt for a masters. But you know, we're on the other side of this. You guys are using the degrees, right? You have great careers.

>> Uh yeah, I make a well above average

salary and she probably makes above average teacher salary.

>> Great. So, let's and George, I want to take him somewhere here now because we we've answered your question and then George has made a really strong challenge, but I want to get to the emotion behind your question, okay? And I want George actually I'm going to ask him a question and George weigh in on this. Okay? So, Nick, here's the deal.

If something were to happen, a major emergency, George, let's have some fun.

pick a garden variety emergency that would be more than $1,000. That would happen for someone like him and he would have to come up with more than $1,000 that he has. >> It's summertime in Richmond, Virginia.

Come July, HVAC goes out and they go, "Hey, man, you got to replace this whole thing. It's going to be $6,000." >> All right. So, Nick, that's the scenario. Based on what we all know now,

what would you do?

Um, probably just make minimum student

loan payments and just pay the that

payment up front. >> Boom. You take your thousand from the emergency fund and take your next paycheck and you go, "All right, we're going to get this done. We're going to cash flow it and then we're going to hit play on the baby steps once we're through this mess." Now, the reason that I walked you through that, Nick, is because I want you to deal with the emotion that was behind that question that you asked us.

Yes, >> you have fear that you're being irresponsible and couldn't take care of wife and baby if something were to happen that would go above and beyond the thousand emergency fund. True or false?

>> Yeah, that's accurate. >> Okay. And so we just walk through it.

>> Yeah. So, it's important to not just call into a show like this and get our logical and philosophical and and methodology answer, which we gave you, but not address the emotion. Because if you don't address the emotion and do that exercise, it goes in one ear, out the other. That's what I find.

Isn't that true, George? There's there's a powerful emotion here. >> You You don't want to just pay off debt more aggressively because George and Ken told you to.

$70,000 owed to these student loan companies and you want that income back in your life, don't you? How good is that going to feel when those payments don't leave anymore?

>> Yeah, it probably will feel very good.

And I really I started off with $360

payments and then these recent months have been more like $3,700.

>> Amazing. Yeah, great job. Keep it up.

So, there it is. Um, you know what to do

now, so go do it. Let's go to Hannah in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hannah, how can we help? >> Hi. So, um, me and my husband, we

inherited a house from his family. Um,

and we have another house. we have a mortgage on. So, we're in the process of selling this house in the next couple months. And with paying off all of our debts and paying family back, we're going to have an extra like $100,000 and we're kind of torn between I want to pay off the mortgage on our current house. Just pay $100,000 to that. He

wants to save the money and invest it um

and um just kind of make money from that

point. So, we're kind of at a crossroads of what to do with this extra money that we're going to have. So, at that point, you guys will be in baby steps four, five, six, no debt with a fully funded emergency fund and $100,000.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, what if you split the difference?

>> What if you max out two Roth IAS for the

year and you put a bunch toward the mortgage and you enjoy some of it and give some of it? So, I I'll add to the list of things to do with this $100,000.

>> Oh, yeah. That would also >> Would that make everyone happy? You got 15K growing with compound growth for retirement. You put another 70 or 60 on

the mortgage and that still leaves you with some fund money.

>> Yeah, cuz I mean so cuz I they're saying that we could sell it for like 280 to 290 and obviously we

have to pay taxes and stuff. We're paying his grandpa back cuz it's his grandpa's house and he's just giving it to us. Um, and then we took out a small

loan to fix the house up because we just don't have we have a a a 13-month-old, so we don't have the time to fix it. So, paying off all that, paying off my student loans, car, a couple credit cards where yeah, it's like an extra I think like 125,000. So, I said like let's just >> Hey, while we're at it, let's put, you know, 5 or 10,000 in a 529 plan for that little 13-month-old.

>> Oh, yeah. That was also part of like the discussion of like we need to start doing something for him for school in the future. Um, so we're in a very like

thankful, grateful situation financially. So I'm just like, okay, what will give us the most bang out of our buck of, hey, let's do this smartly and smartly and the best way possible.

So >> well, either way, everything you're doing is building wealth. Whether that's paying down the mortgage, that's building equity, and it's a forced savings plan with a fixed rate that you're making, which is your mortgage interest rate. So it's not lost. The money's not locked up in the house forever. That's part of your net worth.

That's part of your estate. And so that's part of it. Now, we're going to invest over here. We're going to get some compound growth going. You guys are young, right?

>> Um I am 30. I'll be 31 in a few weeks.

And he is 28. Yeah, 28.

>> So, think about that. If you guys are in your early 30s with a paid for house, are you going to be okay in retirement?

>> Um, yeah. I am I have almost 100,000 and

he has like 120,000.

>> Oh, that's great. So lay out the numbers. Your income 15% or more once the house is paid off, invested. You guys will have millions and millions of dollars well before you even retire.

And so I'm not concerned about building wealth necessarily. I just think we need to split the difference to enjoy life now and build wealth for the future. And so I think splitting the difference will make everyone a little bit upset. And that might be the solution.

George, you you need your own judge show where they come to you with one idea and you say, "I'll tell you what.

I'm going to raise you five different ideas and everybody's so happy. George, put me in a gown.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us.88255225

is the phone number. Jessica is up in Seattle, Washington. Jessica, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Uh, thank you so much for having me.

>> Sure. >> Um, so, uh, I am a newly single mom. Uh,

I just left a domestic violence situation >> and um I'm a mom of two, so I'm kind of trying to figure out what should I prioritize first.

>> Well, first of all, we're so sorry you've been through this and and we're glad that you're safe. I hope you're safe. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay, great. >> What does life look like now for you?

You guys, you and the kids.

>> So, uh, currently we are in a um a shelter. Uh, and I am uh going to get

assistance with housing assistance. So, I'm looking for a for a rental right

now. But how that looks like um it's a

two-year program. So, each each um every 6 months uh they they start with the 100% covering rental up to um uh just

independent. So, the 100 75 50 and 25.

So, right now I'm kind of a I'm unemployed. I only have the $1,000 savings. Um trying to figure out what to do now. I'm looking into going back to school.

>> Do you have any debt?

>> Uh 20,000.

>> What is that comprised of?

>> Uh it's um personal loans, credit cards,

and but a big chunk of it is um uh

probably about 15,000 is in student debt. >> Okay. And what kind of schooling are you considering? >> Uh, so I'm I'm trying to maximize my

time with housing assistance.

So I'm looking into going to school for dental hygienist.

>> How long of a program is that?

>> Uh, if I go to a trade school, that would be about two years.

>> And how much would that cost?

>> 100,000. >> Okay, that's not an option.

So, is there a cheaper option to get into dental hy hygienist work? I'm guessing not, but you were about ready to say something else and I cut you off.

>> Uh, there I've been exploring like community community college. Uh, there

is a program, but I would have to do

cuz I I have my associates, so that would I would just have to take some science classes and that would be about a year and a half. >> And what's the cost on that? Uh, that

one is about 15,000, but I would have to do five a year and a half of prerequisites and then the two-year program.

>> Okay. So, 3 years 15,000 or two years

100,000.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that we put this out here. Let's take the two years$100,000 off the table. >> Okay. Mhm. >> Because and let's also press pause on this idea of of the $15,000 plan. That's

doable, but that to me is a pause and we get to that later. We need to get ourselves employed, get ourselves out of

the government housing and the assistance and and and and get rid of

all this debt and and George is going to walk through the baby steps, but I'm just I want to talk I just I want to cut off this idea of I need to go to school right now while I'm in this shelter situation. No. What you need to do is

get employed if they'll allow that. Do they allow that? If you were to get full-time employment, would they kick you out?

Uh, I believe not. It's um, it's Yeah.

>> Okay, great. So, all I'm trying to do is George is going to walk you through the get out of debt and and get stable financially, but I I really want you to hear me on this. School is down the road

and and and that option is still going to be there, but the $15,000 option I like. >> All right. Uh, why in the world I'd rather spend a little bit more time and way less money on that. And so, that's that's done.

We're not going to touch that right now. You have bigger emergencies, George. So, Jessica, you've got $1,000 starter emergency fund. You do have a bunch of debt to clean up.

So, to Ken's point, if you could work full-time right now and clean up the debt, get a fully funded emergency fund now, it's going to be a whole lot easier to cash flow any program that you go through.

>> Yes. >> What do you do for child care if you're working full-time?

Uh my my my children go to school. >> Oh, great. Okay. So, they're taken care of during the day. You can go work. Do you have reliable transportation?

>> I do. Yes. >> Fantastic. Okay. You are ahead of the curve in a lot of ways. That's awesome.

So, you said, "What do I prioritize?" Number one is your own health and safety and your kids' health and safety. We've got that covered.

>> Yes. >> Number two, we're going to protect our four walls. That's our housing, food, utilities, transportation. You have housing covered. Can you pay for all of the rest currently?

>> Um I I'm going to be um No, I'm going to

be honest now. >> So, we need income ASAP in order to just even even with housing covered, which is a huge blessing, we still have other needs. >> Yes. And so we're going to do whatever we can working right now, even if it's a part-time retail job or hospitality job,

to bring in some money to cover the gap while we look for something that's full-time.

>> Okay? >> And that means you're going to make minimum payments on the debts if you even can. And don't feel bad if you can.

If you can only cover your four walls and that's how you need to get by right now, then it's okay.

I'd rather you not fall behind on payments, but your yourself and your house need to come first. You see where we're going here?

>> Yes. >> So, it's kind of a priority list of me, kids, the house. Now, we can focus on the other things. And that's only going to come through income like Ken talked about. So, have you looked at jobs in your area that would make sense for someone with your experience?

Uh we live in a rural area so

um there's not much locally probably the closest about an hour and um for I guess

support with my children. I'm pretty much the only one so I don't want to be too far out. >> And you're stuck in this area because of their school. Is that what what's going on? >> Yeah. >> And the housing.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. But let's not All right. Let's just let's just brainstorm really quickly. Okay. So, are there any kind of big box stores like big stores that are employing hourly weight workers?

>> Um, probably about 45 minutes away. Yes.

>> Okay. Is that too far or could we make the 45 minutes work?

>> Um, I can make it work. I just I think just for emergencies and you know, anything. >> But you know what? I'm telling you, mama bears like you have have had to face far worse. And I believe in you.

>> Yeah. I'm just telling you right now, you cannot have this mindset of, well, I live in a rural area and there's not a lot here. Does it matter? I have an ignorant question. What do other people who live around you do for work?

>> I don't I don't know. There's a lot of big houses, so >> start talking to people. >> I would start up some conversations.

Wait a second. Wait, wait. I just got an idea. You said there's a lot of big houses. >> Those houses need to be cleaned. >> Those houses need to be cleaned. And I'll guarantee you, I know the type of people that live in those houses. They're usually unhappy with somebody that's working for them. And if you come in and do something better than them, then you are going to get the job.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a great I actually used to do that. I used to go >> perfect. You know what's great about that is you're minutes away from the kiddos if something were to arise.

You're in a safe environment.

>> Yep. And it's flexible. >> It's flexible. They don't care. They just need it cleaned. >> And you can charge 200 a cleaning, couldn't you? >> Yeah. >> All right. Let's go >> do five of those a week. That's one cleaning a day. It's a,000 bucks a week.

That changes your life.

>> Yeah. >> I would start knocking on some doors and just say, "Hey, listen. I I live in the area. I do house cleaning. Here's my card. Go get them printed cheap at your local, you know, Staples or whatever's nearby." >> Jessica, this is not even in in the category of would you do whatever it takes. We know you would. This is something that's doable. It's not demeaning. It's safe. Go start knocking on doors. Talk to everybody that'll listen.

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All right, Sarah is up next in Phoenix.

Sarah, how can we help?

>> Hi there. Um, my husband is getting laid

off in May. He's been applying for jobs

for almost a year now, it feels like.

and he works in ministry. So that's why

we've been he's been applying for jobs for a while already because he just not making enough money for our family of five. >> Okay. >> Um he makes like $45,000 a year and

we've been able to stretch that for a while, but there's things that we haven't been able to have like life insurance, can't pay for our debt, just lots of things. um >> he just can't find he can't find a job and it's getting down to the wire and so

we're not sure whether we should move in

with his parents and him get some sort of certification that will get him a job that pays well enough or also that's the

trouble because anything that is hiring it's like $18 an hour which is not enough um or if he should join the military or >> okay >> if he should start up a business we're just we don't know where to Oh, >> okay. I think we will look at some of those options, but I don't think that that's the primary thing we need to be looking at is my guess. I could be wrong. Um,

how much debt do you guys have?

>> A lot. >> Lay lay that out for us. Lay that out for us. Go smallest to largest. George is writing it all down.

>> Okay. Smallest is his student loans.

It's about 20,000.

Um, and then mine I have 40,000 with

federal loans. And then my mom, this is

complicated. Um, had took out the parent

plus loans and it said that for another 40,000 and she expects me to pay her back for that eventually. Um, >> did you agree to that upfront?

>> When you say expects, was that just like a handshake agreement? Did you say, "Hey, I'll pay you back." >> Yeah, I think I did when I was like 18.

So, like right when I started college, I didn't know. I just signed up for it, you know, and >> Okay. >> I guess I said, "Yeah." >> Um, and then our house, our mortgage, and that's it. >> How much is the mortgage? What's the balance and what's the payment?

>> It's 85,000 right now for the house. And then our payment's only like 830 a month.

>> Okay. Well, there's some good news in the mix. So, we definitely need more income to pay off $100,000 in consumer

debt. >> Do you work outside the home?

>> No, that's I'm I just started a nutritional uh a holistic nutrition business, so I haven't really made any money from that yet. But >> is it um like a a multi-level marketing

thing? >> No, >> this is on your own.

>> Yeah. How much how much money do you

think if he were to get a bump from the 45,000, how much do you think he needs to make for you to feel like, okay,

we've got enough income coming in?

>> Yeah, that was our goal is 55,000 total.

>> Yeah. >> So, another 10,000.

>> Yeah. Okay. And it's I mean, it's probably not enough just that to start

paying off debt. Really? Well, that's probably right. >> And I I'm I'm asking this question.

George will kind of walk you through here, but I >> I definitely don't think he needs to start a business. And I don't think you need to start your business. I think you need to press pause on your business and let's see if you can go get a 25, 30, $40,000 job. And then he is also he's

not waiting around to make some giant career move at this point because we're under the gun 3 months away or less to be laid off. So, he's going out and doing whatever. We're going to do whatever for a season. And let's say both of you can make 40.

That's 80,000.

Now, based on the death, you just what?

>> I just had a baby. I um five months ago,

and I I really don't want to put my babies in in daycare.

>> Okay, I get it. But that's again assuming that daycare is your only option.

>> We don't have any family around here.

Your husband's in ministry at a church.

I'll bet the church has got some old ladies in it, right?

>> Yeah. Well, not that could watch my our

kids. >> Do they have a daycare as part of the church? >> No, it's it's a small church.

>> What's keeping you guys in this area if he's laid off and you're not working?

>> Um, nothing really. We love the area, but I mean we could move back to where his parents are and that would be helpful, but it's more expensive over

there. The cost of living is >> I just here here's what I'm hearing.

Sarah, you called us for some advice and everything we throw at you >> feels like a long shot the way you're answering it >> and I think that's a mindset issue.

>> Yeah.

>> You are in some deep water right now.

Yes. >> Yeah. How do people act when they're thrown into deep water?

>> I don't know. The panic >> urgent at least. What do they do? They

they start flapping their arms and kicking their legs and they make some effort to get out of deep water. Yes or no? >> Yeah. And my husband is like he's

>> he's applying. He's not working. There's a difference. >> He has a second job. He does.

>> Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't get that information. All I heard was is he's in ministry.

So, I'm I'm I'm I'm operating on information I've been given. Here's the point I'm trying to make. I think there needs to be some urgency. And I think living with our parents or his parents, I don't think that's the answer.

I think it is we need to get out of this. So, I I enough of my mindset stuff. I'm very concerned though if I can challenge you. I'm concerned about the mindset that I'm hearing.

Now, let's get to the numbers, George.

uh, what realistically, uh, do they need to be doing? >> Well, as it plays out, if you guys kept a 40 or $50,000 salary, you would probably be paying off this debt for the next decade.

>> Yeah, >> that's just the math. That's not me just trying to be, you know, negative. Now, if you guys made a h 100,000 and you had 100,000 to pay off, probably could do it in threeish years, maybe four max.

>> Okay? And so that's the math we're up against here is you need to make double the income or more in order to pay off this debt in a reasonable amount of time because the baby steps exist, those first three for aggressive gazelle intensity. >> It takes most people about three years to get all the way through that from baby step one to three completely out of debt, fully funded emergency fund. And I don't want to see you guys treading water all because well, it's only the job he can get out here.

Not much out here.

I I get it, but but just filling out applications and all that kind of stuff.

And while the clock is ticking down, here's what I don't think you realize.

And I'm coming at this much older and much more experienced. So, this isn't like me looking down my nose at you. I'm just telling you the reality is what you don't realize is that what the debt and the stress of him not having a better job and and and the the shoe falling in

May that he loses his job, the debt payments, your baby is feeling all that anxiety and you don't even know it.

and and and and so what I'm preaching is a mindset of urgency and you're letting life happen to you instead of happen to life. So yeah, if you got to move where you can get child care for free but it's a little bit more expensive, that's fine because you can make a lot more money.

And if you got parents or grandparents to take care of the baby, great. And you

guys both have degrees. Did you graduate?

>> Yeah, he's got a degree in communication studies and I have a degree in fashion merchandising. >> Perfect. So, you both could get jobs in those fields. >> My gosh. If he gets out of ministry and does I mean, there's a lot of jobs in communication. I've got one of those degrees. I made use of it. >> You need to go get you a job at a fancy department store like Nordstrom or Blooming Dales. Use that degree. You know, learn how to do makeup, something.

You've got some real experience and skill set. True or false?

Yeah. In nutrition, not not really fashion merchandising. >> Well, you got a degree in it.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, if I'm hiring and I look at your resume, I go, "Oh, she's actually got a degree in fashion merchandising. She knows something about >> you're you're just hitting every serve I hit to you, you just hit it back."

>> So, I don't know what to tell you, Sarah. We see this as actually a young

couple who could come together and lock arms and double their income by just sheer effort. And no matter what you choose, it's going to be hard. Moving across the country and higher cost of living is going to be hard. Staying where you are is also going to be hard.

And right now, we got to choose the thing that has our best shot of getting us out of this muck and mire that we are in.

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

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John is up in Birmingham, Alabama. John, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how are you? Uh, >> doing well. >> So, uh, I'm about 65,000 in debt. Uh,

45,000 on a car, uh, that I leased for

my wife, 5,000 on credit cards, and

about 15,000 on other unsecured loans.

And living paycheck to paycheck. Uh, I I

do work three jobs. Uh uh but living

paycheck to paycheck and don't have any savings, nothing for retirement. I'm 42

and just wondering if being able from

this point to get to millionaire status

and on a on our own home and we're renting as well. So >> what do you what do you make in these three jobs combined? So combined all

together, I'm bringing uh roughly

between 105 and 125 a year.

>> What do you do? What are the three jobs?

>> Well, I do uh little security um granite

fabrication and law enforcement.

>> Which one is the full-time day job?

>> Uh granite fabrication.

>> Huh. >> And sec security is nighttime fulltime.

>> And what's the lawn? It's only it's it's a part time. >> Huh. Okay. >> Did you pick those up out of necessity to pay bills?

>> Uh yeah, I did. Well, I mean I I've had I've had two of the jobs for a long time and I just come back to the Granite.

I've been in it for several years uh since around 99. And uh I come back to

it just to kind of try to get straightened out and try to get some of this off of me. I've been listening to uh Dave's Baby Steps Millionaires and and the other the other book he has out um and it's just had me intrigued and so

I I'm doing everything I can but it seems like every time I get a step step ahead I go I go two steps backwards uh

with something. I've got three kids and a wife. So um just >> Is your wife working outside the home?

No, my wife uh had two strokes back in

2019, which she is 100% well. She's good. That's great. >> But she doesn't work. Um we I just uh

decided that and she doesn't want to work either as far as outside. She's a homemaker. She stays home and takes care of the house and the kids um what their need. So u >> So why did we need a $50,000 car?

Well, she's never had a new car and um

and like I I I guess I started listening to Dave a little too late and you guys a little too late, but um that's that's where we got we kind of got stuck with it after um going there to get it. We

was going to buy and we got stuck in the lease instead of buying and now it's

it's already over. So they all lot

10,000 miles per year. Uh, and we're

already over the >> So, you're paying extra on top of that.

What's your lease payment? >> Well, no. Well, I'm not paying extra.

Um, it's $628.96 per month. Um, but no, I'm not I'm not paying extra, but if we don't buy the

car or if I don't jump into something different and see that's see, I paid 8,500 cash down and I've paid for it for

a full year. So, I paid over6,000. Yeah, that is brutal because you're you need to either have the full amount to pay it off in a lump sum, >> which you don't have, or a lease transfer, which if even that's allowed, that's going to be really difficult to find someone else to take it over, >> right? >> And so there's not a lot of good options with leases.

That's why they're my least favorite way to drive a vehicle. And I hate car loans, but leases take the cake, >> right? >> So, >> do you guys have money in savings at all?

>> No retirement whatsoever.

>> Okay. Well, I can give you some good news. You asked, "Is it still possible for me to become a millionaire?" >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> You guys are done playing this game.

>> We're done. We're We're done. That's why I'm on the phone with you guys. >> You're working hard. You know that.

You're working too hard to be broke.

>> Yeah. >> You're going to pick up a fourth job just to keep up with another payment at this point. And so, you guys are done.

That means your wife is done, too. She is ready to downgrade her lifestyle in order to have a financial future that's worth having.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. Well, here's what it looks like.

It looks like you working more. You're

going to keep the three jobs, keep making 125K as we knock out the 65K.

That is your only goal for probably the next Could you put like three or four grand a month towards these debts?

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Uh, yeah. I mean,

I just don't know the this the the strategy to go to go with, but yeah, I can I definitely can. >> You're just going to debt snowball them. So, the smallest balance, probably one of these little credit cards, that's your first one to go. You're going to make minimum payments on everything else. Make your normal lease payment.

The unsecured loans, make the minimum payments. And on that lowest balance, you're going to attack it with a vengeance.

>> Right. >> And if you can throw 3,600 a month at this thing, it's done in 18 months.

That's That's the car and all.

>> That's everything. I mean 60 You said 65,000 total. So just >> that's correct. >> Napkin math. 65,000.

>> Here's what's off from me. George and John. John just told us George that he

can't seem to get ahead. Something always happens. Then you ask him if he could throw 3,000 plus a month away and he instantly says yes. So that tells me

something's off. What's off?

Well, I guess I guess uh the this is what's off. I get ahead and then I turn when I get ahead. I put out everything at once. So my my snowball I get this is what I'm been I've been calculating. My snowballs off. So I I'll put so much to this and then get back behind and then have to turn around and borrow again.

>> Behind for what? Are you not paying your bills? >> Well, no. Like like I'll I'll pay on something. So as of right now I owe 65.

So, I've been I've been paying toward toward things, but then I have to turn around and borrow, then I get back behind again. >> So, it's a budgeting issue. You're not properly allocating your paychecks.

>> Yeah.

I guess that would be right. >> Okay. That's what I was digging for. And George, that's where the coaching's got to happen right here is to really truly get control of the money so you know where it is because that makes sense now. You've got the income.

It just sounds like you're not putting it where it needs to go. So, and then it's disappearing into bills and lifestyle and spending.

>> So, I'm going to gift you Every Dollar, John, the premium version, and I want you to do something very specific. You're going to click on the paycheck planning tool, and it's going to help show you where all the bills fall by the due dates. So, you're going to enter all that in. It will actually show you if and when you're going to run out of money, and then you can move the move the bills around so that they fall behind the paycheck, >> right?

cuz right now everything's happening and you're going, I don't have the money to cover this next bill. And so it will visualize that all for you inside of every dollar.

>> Uh yeah, right now, as a matter of fact, my checking account's in the negative. It changes me to say that, but it's in the negative right now. >> Oh boy. Have you Can you turn off the overdraft with your bank cuz right now you're getting dinged 35 bucks a pop every time that happens.

>> Yeah. So just turn it off. Transaction won't go through.

>> Okay? >> And that that'll reflect the reality that you guys are in. And that next paycheck, leave 500 bucks in there.

Never let your checking account go below 500. That becomes your floor.

>> And then you'll budget with everything on top of that. And so every dollar will walk you through this, John. On top of giving you personalized recommendations on how to find extra margin cuz you have a great income. You're working your tail off. I want you to feel it. So you can become a millionaire. I did the numbers for you. 45 to 67. You invest 15% of a

$100,000 income, you'll have over $1.5

million.

That's 22 years of consistent investing.

But you got to get out of debt first. Got to get that emergency fund. And I'm giving you 3 years to do all of that.

You got this.

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Scott is up in Denver, Colorado. Scott, how can we help?

>> Hi. So, I was calling to see if I could get some advice. Um, long story short,

uh, my wife and I had purchased a house about three years ago. Um, we were,

um, in good. We were making we're making all our payments. Um, then recently um,

she got laid off, had to get a job. Um,

you know, got a job as soon as possible and was able to, you know, um, help again kind of in that sense. Um, but

currently we're kind of living paycheck to paycheck with a house and it's kind of eating us up. So, I'm trying to think of what would be the best solution or

how to go about this and to see if uh selling our house would be the next best step.

>> Sorry to hear that. What do you guys make a year now?

>> So, now we're making about 90 96,000 a

year. >> Okay. That's about That's kind of like after taxes, I guess, or before.

>> Okay. So, what's your monthly take-home pay? >> Um, give me two seconds. I can >> I can crunch it for you. If you're saying that's your your take-home be a month, >> just about. Yeah. >> Okay. And what's your mortgage payment?

>> 20 28.

>> Okay. So, nothing's on fire here. Is it higher than I would like? You know, we say 25% of your after tax income. That would be two grand. 2,800 is not end of

the world. I would not go selling your house tomorrow because of this. You should still have, you know, over five grand in margin to then live your life.

So the question is what is all that getting eaten up by? Do you guys have other debt?

>> Um, so I mean we do we have I have my

student loans um which is just a lump sum and then a smaller lump sum.

>> What's the total of all your consumer debt? Uh so no credit cards but just student loans is about 27.

>> Okay. Anything else?

>> Um I not that I can think of. No.

>> Okay. >> Is really >> So why are you paycheck to paycheck?

>> I don't know. I mean we you know we we

we save. So I I mean we we try to save

as what we can. We tithe and then we also set aside money for

for for you know for the mortgage and then kind of end up scraps. I mean it I

I can't really >> Have you guys ever sat down as a couple and completed an every dollar budget where you just lay out, okay, $8,000 coming in, here's everything going out.

If we follow this to a tea, this is what will happen.

>> Yeah. We we do we do budget meetings, but you know, I think my my issue is

that um I I I I don't I I I I don't

know. It's It's hard to say.

>> No, it's not. Hold on a second. I'm I'm listening here and I'm just going to be real blunt with you. Either you either

you do know and you're not comfortable owning up to it or you don't know. And

I'm I got a gut. Tell me if I'm wrong.

My gut is you guys actually might do a budget, but you don't follow it.

>> That's my guess. >> That sounds right. Yes. >> What do you mean it sounds right?

>> Well, you're right. Yeah.

>> All right. You You see where I'm going here? Like you you're being coached right now and you can't coach somebody who doesn't go, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I do

see that." And because either we're right or we're wrong. And so I heard that. And so the issue then, George, is that's what I thought. They do a budget and I and I think that's a generous application. >> It's like me making a workout plan. Do I do the workout?

>> Right. George, this is exact pick on George. If George had a workout plan that he found online and he went to the gym and and he only was in there for 15 minutes >> and I went to the sauna and steam room and didn't actually do the workout, >> would you call that working out?

>> No. No. >> I don't think that what you're doing is budgeting.

>> Okay. So, right, >> that's and again, it's not to pick on you. It's to help you see that's why you can't answer George with certainty,

>> right? >> We want to solve the right problem here.

And the truth is, yes, it stinks that the income went down, but you have a great income still. I mean, you guys are making six figures after tax.

>> I don't know how you grew up, but that's rich in my neck of the woods. And so, your mortgage payment isn't the thing that's sinking you. I think it's the lifestyle creep and spending that you now it's been exposed because of the lower income because you could stomach it when you guys were making more and now you're going man things feel tight which means if you look at your bank bank statement it might be a better picture of your real financial reality of man we spent a lot on Door Dash this this month we've been going out to eat we have all these subscriptions we have all these luxuries that we really can't afford right now while we clean up debt so if I'm in your shoes I'm not going to be doing any saving are investing right now.

I'm just going to be cleaning up those student loans. What do all those payments add up to for the student loans?

>> Okay. So, you'll get a raise right there. That's, you know, almost four grand a year that you'll have back in your life once you pay these student loans down. And then you'll have a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months.

How much do you have in savings now?

>> I mean, we do have 10 grand in in savings. >> Okay. So, we're not quite following the steps. If you following the baby steps, you would take nine of that 10 and throw it at the debt.

>> Okay? >> Which gets you down to 18. And if you stop saving and investing right now, you could probably knock out 18 grand pretty quick. Like what? 4 months.

>> All right. >> So, by fall, we are now completely debtree, restocking our emergency fund.

And by 2027, you guys have no debt.

Fully funded emergency fund. your income's probably gone up and the mortgage payment will now feel very reasonable. Now, I hope your income goes up uh and the mortgage payment becomes 25%. But I don't think that's the root issue here that you called in about.

>> Gotcha. Okay.

>> Is there room for her to make more and get back to what she was making?

>> Um I think eventually I I mean she had a

tech job. Now it's a basically just different field, different everything. she was just able to get something as soon as possible, you know, and um kind of got a job with

what she wanted to try and so >> good. >> It Yeah. So, she's she's able to try that, but I I mean, and enjoy it and and try this job that she's always had an interest in. Um I mean, it's just a little bit less, but that's okay.

>> Well, I think she'll make up the difference because as Ken Coleman talks about, if you enjoy what you do, you're probably going to be better at it. you're going to want to become a master at it and excel at it, which usually leads to promotions and raises.

>> Yeah, that's right. So, appreciate the call. Uh, but I think you guys just lock in, you know, and actually know where our money is going. And, uh, >> which means tracking the transactions as the month goes on and not just setting it and then forgetting it and looking at next month going, "All right, let's plan for the other month." >> That's right. Let's go to Chris in Boisee, Idaho. Chris, how can we help?

>> Chris, how can we help? >> Hey, how you doing? I've um I've been following you guys pretty religiously since I was a young man and um I've done pretty well for myself. Uh haven't bought a car in 10 years. Um my truck's

actually almost 15 years old. Um but it's it's going strong. I had to give my my wife's car away to my son cuz he needed it for work. So now the first time in 10 years we got to buy a car and I'm thinking about going against all the things that I learned over the years and taking out a loan. Um, we want to get a

nice call. >> I know. I know. >> Hey, listen. Before we say anything, before we say anything, I I just would love to know what your mental process was when you called into the show since you've listened to Dave and presumably us for many, many years. What was your thought process in asking that question?

What did you think we were going to say?

>> I know. I know. So, here's the here's the issue. So, I'm retired and um

if I pull the money out of my IRA,

it's going to be a 20% tax on it. Um

take out a >> Yeah. If I take out a short-term loan, you know, right now they're at three to, you know, two to 4%. And if I do

>> Chris, you told me this has been like a decadesl long process. You know, you got to save up for things that you want over time. Why is it now all of a sudden an emergency?

>> Well, it's it's it's not really an emergency, but we want to do something.

You know, we want to buy a nice car if we haven't had a nice car in a while. >> Let me rephrase that. You want to live beyond your means, and you did not have the discipline to save up for it. And so, you want to shortcut it with a loan that's now going to add stress and risk to your life. >> Well, it's it's not really that. I mean, we've got we've got a lot of money.

>> I don't know. If you have a lot of money, then buy it in cash.

Well, but then I'm paying 20% versus >> then you don't have a lot of money. If you're talking about retirement money, we're not going to touch that if it's going to be taxed and penalized. So, we got to save up and have money we can actually use right now that's liquid, a high yield savings account. And so, it sounds like you just you got to save up.

We're going to be down to one car for a little while until we can do that.

>> I think it's great advice. I don't know why you needed a shout. I don't know. I don't think that was necessary >> cuz he knows better. You >> stop yelling at the callers.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George

Camel is sitting alongside me. I'm Ken Coleman. And warning to all of you, he is a little frisky today. He's a little

upset. He's had it up to where, George?

Top of the head. >> Up to here. And I know I'm not that tall, but I'm telling you, still that's pretty high. >> He's a little upset. So, we'll see what happens here. Beware, callers.

Michael is up in Orlando. Michael, how

can we help?

>> Oh, man. I hope you're not too upset. How you guys doing? >> I'll be kind. Hey, I'm Michael. I'm here to protect you cuz he is steaming. I'm kidding. We're having a little bit of fun. Go ahead. >> All right. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, guys. Um, so, um, I'm not sure if I'm a

little, uh, too, what's the word? Like,

if I'm exaggerating or if it's a really big problem, but I just wanted to hear

what you guys think. So, basically, I

got laid off from my job as a healthc care uh retention

specialist about

um April of last year, so maybe eight months, I guess.

And I ended up going back into my family's

business.

So, uh, that did not work out as well as I thought it would for me. And

it caused a lot of family drama. So, I kind of drifted off from that. And

since about November or December, I

would say, I've been looking for new work and I went back to school working on my PMP certification.

I've always followed you guys for um since my childhood basically.

>> So you've been out of you've been out of work for a few months. What's your question for us?

>> Yeah. So I mean I I have been out of work. I do flip cars. Uh that's you can call it a side hustle. So I mean I I carry myself that way. >> Okay. >> I went to school for my PMP

certification. I went back to school for that. And since then, I've been looking

for work. Um, I do travel a lot. So,

>> how can we how can we help you today?

>> So, basically, I'm wondering uh the schooling put me about $9,000 in debt.

>> Okay. >> And >> and you finished again. >> You have the PMP certification now?

>> No, I do not. I have the

PAPM. So, it's basically the associate

of the PMP.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you got $9,000 in debt.

>> Yeah. And I'm just a little worried because I haven't really found the work yet. I'm looking for work as a project

coordinator or assistant project manager

at this point. Uh, >> what's your payment? What's your monthly payment on the 9,000?

So, um I think it's about

>> we can I think it's about 450.

>> Any other debt at all?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. So, Michael, I love all the background. You've given us fabulous context.

What is your question?

So, I'm not exactly sure how I should approach this because >> how you should approach what?

>> The debt. >> The debt. >> All right. Let's assume that your question is, "How do I pay off the $9,000 as quick as I possibly can?" What's the best way to do it, George?

>> You need income to do that. Right now, you're saying you don't have any income except for the car flipping, which is just getting you by, >> right? >> Okay. Where are you living?

So, I moved back and forth. Um, >> where are you living, Michael? Just tell me right now. Where are you living?

>> Right now, I'm in New York. I'm going to go to India in a few days.

>> Why? You said you're traveling all the time. A guy who's broke shouldn't be traveling all the time.

>> Right. I I actually help out with the with my family. They do some work over there. So, >> So, you're going to India to make money to be a missionary? >> Hold on. Hold on. Are you going to India to make money?

I'm not going to get anything for myself. No. >> Michael, what are we doing, buddy? You need a job. Like, my screen says, "Should I file for bankruptcy?" So, you're telling me you're doing volunteer work while on the verge of bankruptcy?

>> I uh >> Yes or no? >> I guess >> I guess you could say yes.

>> No, it's yes. All right. So, >> yeah. Yeah, you're right.

>> Yes. So, you need a job working at a gas

station. You need a job working at a

warehouse. You don't have time for this

degree or certificate, whatever that is.

You've been floundering for too long.

Can we agree on that?

>> Um, define floundering. I don't know.

>> You've been just floating through life, boopping around >> in the pinball machine, and just hoping that you make it through. Can we agree that's not a good strategy?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Absolutely not. >> We need some purpose. We need some clarity. We need some urgency. But not bankruptcy. Let's just boil this down.

You don't need to file bankruptcy for $9,000 worth of debt when you are an able-bodied young man. So, you pay off

the $9,000. So, George is going to tell you, very straightforward, how you let's assume the income is there and he's got to go do that. >> You get the project coordinator job.

Here's what you do. >> 40 $45,000. You're >> or warehouse or gas station, right? Just

right now, you need some income. And by the way, it's not on the way to India.

All right, George. How's he pay the 9,000 off? >> So, you were going to live like a broke person, which should be easy cuz right now that's kind of how you're living. But you're going to spend nothing outside of food, utilities, housing, transportation, and every other dollar that you can free up is going to go toward that debt.

And you'll pay it off pretty fast. If you can throw a,000 bucks a month this at this thing, you're done in 9 months. You're done before the end of the year. That gets you to freedom.

But the thing is, the $9,000 is not the major problem here. Cuz for most people that's nothing. They'd be like, "This guy's barely in debt. Why is he calling the show?" There is a mindset issue here because you called in saying, "I'm on the verge of bankruptcy because I went into some student loan debt for a certification." And that tells me there's a deeper issue here that you've been living this way for your whole adult life without real purpose or clarity or mentorship coaching.

And that's what we're here to do. And so, you need to get that job and you need to stop traveling. You need to save up some money and avoid going to debt ever again. And I hope you can do that.

At least you got the certification done. I don't know what it takes to get to a full PMP if it if you need that to get the job. >> More money sounds like, >> but maybe that they'll pay for it. If you get a good job and you work your tail off, they go, "Hey, we'll send you back to get the full PMP certification." And I hope that helps.

>> All right, we're going to go to Sam in New York. Now, Sam, we got to get the quick question here. Straightforward, and it looks like we can answer this one.

>> Okay, I'm looking at my 401k. It's with the common money company known and the

choices are mutual funds and they're with known money companies. The first row companies they get a cut. The second row they get to cut the mutual funds and some of the mutual funds invested other mutual funds. I'm paying multiple layers of fees.

I'm thinking I might be just ahead just to take my money and go to one of these platforms where there's zero trading fees and just go buy, you know, a couple shares of the Dow if I want that or a couple shares of the S&P 500, a couple shares of the Russell or maybe the Russell. >> So, the question is, should you So, the question is, should you do your own trading management, >> right? >> What's that? >> So, we got it.

Should you do your own trading? Should you be your own stock uh investor, broker? All right, George. If you want to invest in a Roth IRA and you want to open that yourself, you've done your research.

You want to just invest in the S&P, you can absolutely do that with low fees. But I would actually look into what you're really paying with your 401k. I doubt it's as much as you think it is when you look at the expense ratios. But start with the Roth IRA and then once you max that out, go back to your your 401k and uh you'll be fine in the long run.

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Today's question comes from Ethan in New Mexico. He says, "I'm an unmarried sales rep in my mid20s and considering buying my first home. I want it to be a blessing, not a burden. So, I'm confused as to why you use net take-home pay to determine the recommended monthly payment and other money experts go off of gross income.

I understand the difference, but would appreciate an explanation about the why behind your recommendation." Okay, so to be clear, Ethan is talking about our housing parameter. So, your rent or mortgage should be no more than 25% of your after tax monthly income. And he's wondering, why do you say after tax? All these other guys say gross income's fine or 30% of your gross income.

Your net income versus gross can vary greatly depending on where you live.

Just ask anybody in California. Their gross income does not mean that's how much they get to use in our economy. And so net income is a much better indicator of your financial stability as far as what you can actually use to pay your bills. So net income, yes, it's more conservative than your gross income.

25% is more conservative than most people uh suggest, but it is to allow you to get through the other baby steps. So baby step four, five, six, investing for the future, saving for kids, college, paying off the house early, which is something that most people don't do. So that's why it's conservative. And uh if you're an unmarried sales rep in your mid20s, you got time on your side to buy a house, don't rush into it.

>> Yeah, good. >> That's my take. I don't know. Dave may have a different explanation of it's his parameter, but I agree with it and it worked for me. >> I like it. I liked it. Jefferson is up

in Indianapolis. Jefferson, how can we help? um had a question on when I first

started working I set up my retirement to increase 1% every year and now that's

several years later and I have some debt and I'm wondering if I should back off the retirement to pay down the debt and then push it back up later because my company only offers 1% match so it's not

like I'm getting much free money from them. >> Yeah. How much debt do you have?

>> About 68,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you make?

>> Uh together my wife and I bring home about 140. >> Awesome. So how long do you think if you paused investing you would save the amount you're invest you know your percentage you're investing which is how much? What's the percentage?

>> Uh it would probably be oh 13%.

>> 13%. And how much do you make?

>> I make myself 82.

>> Okay. So, you would gain 10 grand back for the year if you paused investing for one year, >> which would get you out of debt faster.

>> Yeah. >> Now, are you still going to be able to retire if you do that? You're going to be okay with your nest egg if we come back swinging at 15% or more for the rest of your life.

>> Should be >> okay. That's what I would do.

>> Only 33, so I should have time.

>> Oh, you got plenty of time on your side.

So, I'm making 140K. you know, if you throw, let's say, how much do you think you could throw right now towards the debt if you paused investing, which would give you uh, you know, a decent chunk, 833 bucks back in your life every month? >> So, we have um I sold a bunch of silver coins recently, so I have almost 20,000 I have in a mutual fund. >> Great. >> Sorry, not sorry. Money market account.

Okay. >> But we have to do a new roof um inside our house this year. So, I've been holding on to that to do that first and then whatever's left from that I can throw at it. Okay. So, I mean, the new roof might take that might take 20 grand these days.

>> Uh, I'm going to do it myself, so I only have to do by the supply. So, it should hopefully be a lot less than that. >> Wow, that's impressive. Okay, so let's

do that. Let's say you got 58 uh, you know, grand. Let's say you have 10 grand, you pay it down to 58. Could you throw, I don't know, five grand a month

towards this debt at that point?

Uh, probably not five grand because we have two kids and they're both in daycare and that eats up a lot. But we can probably do maybe an extra grand a month. >> So, how much total going towards the debt? >> It would be between two and 2500 a

month. >> Okay. So, I'll do the math for you. 2500 a month, it would take you roughly two years. >> Okay, >> if you did it that way. Now, if you can free up more money, it'll take you less time obviously. So that would be the goal is worst case we're out of debt in 2 years and then I'm back to investing not 13% but 15% until the house is paid

off and then you can invest even more beyond that and catch up. So you got plenty of time. I mean you still got three decades of a working career. So I have no doubt you'll catch up but right now it's let's get rid of this debt and stay out. >> And but I want to challenge you. What would you say that you would that you could do to shorten that timeline that George just threw at you?

Uh, I've got some other stuff I could probably sell. Um, and a couple side hustles like making maple syrup and making lumber. So, >> that's what I that's where I was going knowing your skill set. So, now the fun

exercise George gave you the a great starting point. And so, now it's okay, what would I how much money would I need to make to do it in 12 months? And you

put that number out, then you go, how can I make that money? And all of a sudden it just gets really really fun.

You are a serious person. You'll get pretty motivated. And I'm telling you the exercise is to say how much money to do it in 12 months. George, give us that number. >> 12 months would be five grand. That's the number I originally threw out. I man it'd be cool to knock this out in 12 months. >> Okay. So then now we have a number and with your skill set stuff you can sell.

How quickly can you make the five grand?

Yeah, >> that's your that's your homework assignment. >> Okay. >> And watch how fun that gets. And and and I got to I got to do a little uh mini lesson on this, George. Okay. This is I nerd out on this stuff sometimes and I haven't nerd out in a while. And this is time. You've been holding out on there's a lot of people that need to hear this.

They're in different situation than Jefferson, but it it is the power of focus. Okay. Um you remember the last

time you bought a car, George? >> Yeah, it was recently. >> Okay. Do you remember seeing that car all over the road? >> Yeah. >> You know, like three, five, seven days after that. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's an actual effect from psychology.

>> I noticed them a lot more >> and everybody does. This has happened to everybody. And this is the power of focus. And so what I want people to understand is that when you buy a car, that's an intense, right? There's a lot of maybe research of course there is

sleepless nights maybe or positive emotion but you are focused on it and the day comes and you make the purchase you drive it off the lot. We see it everywhere. Now the the the the the car

gods didn't just drop that in there all of a sudden to mess with you. >> There's not actually more of that. >> There's not more of those. But why do we see it?

And the answer is this nerdy thing in our brain called the reticular activating system. And it's the part of the brain that takes pictures on what we focus on. And so that's why some days when we're having a bad day and we feel like everybody's against us, you know, and you're at the grocery store and the kid talks to you like, you know, you're an idiot, but he probably wasn't. But you've been walking around all day going, I'm getting treated this way at home.

The point is what we focus on. Our brain

then goes and takes pictures of it. And so very nerdy. I get it. But this is all

scientific. It's all psychology. The brain is powerful. And so him focusing on $5,000.

Somehow someway, my life changes

dramatically for $5,000. But for people

that are listening that are in much deeper debt, $50,000, that seems like

insurmountable until you start to focus on how can I come up with or how can I

pay off $50,000. And I just wanted to

encourage people that are listening and watching today that if you focus on the

right steps and the baby steps are what you focus on. It's why Dave preaches it.

It's why we preach it. By the way, it's why it's worked. >> Yeah. >> Focused intensity. >> Focused intensity over time, right?

Multiply by God. Unstoppable momentum.

And so I just want people to understand your brain will do the work if you give it the the right inputs.

>> Yeah. So focus on whatever I got to do

to make $5,000. And then opportunities that you didn't see previously will absolutely appear just like the car that you bought. >> Things that looked like work before now become an opportunity to go make an extra thousand bucks. >> Yeah. So I mean this mindset stuff isn't motivational gobbledygook.

This is the way your brain works. So focus on the right stuff and watch good stuff happen.

Heat. Heat.

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>> All right, George, you ready for a babyepsmillionaire call? These are always really fun. Let's go to They are

Sou Falls. Have you ever been to Sou Falls, by the way? >> I haven't. Yeah, I have. It's lovely.

The The Falls, by the way, >> runs right right downtown.

>> I didn't think about there's real falls there. It's not just in the name >> and it's absolutely stunning. Eric is joining us in Sou Falls. Eric, congratulations on being a Baby Steps Millionaire. Thanks for being on with us and sharing your story.

>> Thanks, Ken and George. It's It's an honor. >> All right, so you know, we like to run you through the list of questions here. Are you ready to roll? >> About to rock and roll. >> All right. Tell us your net worth, Eric.

>> We just creeped over a million uh basically at the first of the year. So, we've been watching it, watching it little by little and finally got there.

>> Congratulations on that. That's got to feel good.

It did. It did. You know, we we didn't get to quite celebrate with the millionaires on the Ramsay cruise last March, but uh just took us a few almost another year and we were there. >> Well, I got great news for you, Eric.

We got another one coming in 2027 and it's half full. So, you might want to join us on that one. >> I know. I just got to hope my schedule lines up and allows us to go because it looks like a great route.

>> Well, George will write a note to your boss if you like. A doctor's note. Yeah, it'd be great. >> Probably more the kids that are the problem.

Oh, well, I can't help you there.

>> Yeah, probably. >> How old are you, Eric?

>> I am 44, about to turn 45. My wife's a couple years younger than me. >> Nice. >> Wow. >> And All right. Tell us what the mix of the 1 million net worth is.

>> So, we've got a house that's probably worth about a half a million. We still owe about 165 on that. We've got about

uh about 400 and some thousand in uh

401ks and IRA and then we've got about 150,000 in liquid cash.

>> Okay. Very very nice. What's your uh income?

>> Uh it's when we got married 20 years ago, it was maybe all of 50,000 and now it pushes about 200.

>> Woo. What do you guys do?

I'm a CFO for a local uh Powers Sports

uh family of dealerships and my wife is

a manager at a sporting goods store.

>> Oh, I like that. Boy, I bet you guys get the fun discounts between the Powers Sports stuff and the sporting goods store. That's kind of fun for me. George doesn't know what any of that means, but I would enjoy that. >> Uh now, do you >> be careful not spending it all?

>> Right, right, right, right. That's good.

Uh do you use a Smart Veester Pro by any chance? >> We do. We use a local local Compass

Financial that we've used for a good, you know, 12 or so years that we love.

So, he certainly helped us with that.

>> Got you set up well for the future because you're still a young man. Uh, >> yeah, absolutely. >> How much of the Well, we know this already, but we want to point out a lot of people think that wealthy people like you inherited. You inherited zero, I'm guessing. Is that true?

>> That's actually not true. About three years ago, my grandmother died. because unfortunately my dad had already died.

Uh my dad's portion went to my siblings and I >> um we about 90,000.

>> Okay. All right. Not not a huge amount, but >> but I definitely I'd give it back though, you know, to have uh have it gone to the generation before, but it's going to pass on its blessings.

>> What did you do with the 90,000?

>> It's actually sitting in a CD earning more interest than I'm paying on my mortgage. When those lines c cross each other in three years, the mortgage is going to be gone. >> Wow. All right. Very interesting. Uh and

let's see here. Uh do you have a degree?

You and your wife, do you have degrees?

>> Yep. I have a bachelor's in accounting.

She has a bachelor's in uh business administration. >> All right. And uh what what was your GPA?

>> I probably barely got through. I had about a 2.4. Uh, I had, as Dave would say, I played a little too much beer pong >> and she was much smarter than me. She had close to a 37, she tells me.

>> Isn't that fascinating? And George, some of these questions, you know, that this is a pattern from our largest study ever done, over 10,000 net worth millionaires, and these are very interesting facts. You know, everybody thinks, well, you're a validictorian or whatever, a genius. >> Yeah.

And Eric, again, like every good man, clearly married up. So, she did better than you in GPA. And >> and even with your 2.4, four, you became a CFO making a great income. I know just to give people hope that uh it's it's not all down to, you know, how well you focused in school.

>> Here's another fun thing we love to ask net worth millionaires. What kind of jeans do you wear? Uh Bill, uh excuse me, Eric.

>> Levis's. >> You wear Levis's. The new fangled ones or old school? >> No. No. Probably about three, four years old now. >> Where do you guys shop normally? like where where does an actual real life millionaire where do you guys tend to go for things like groceries and clothing?

>> Uh we've got uh Fairway and Hi Ve here

in South Dakota. Uh you know try to keep the wife out of Target as much as possible.

>> Uh >> I got to do a follow-up. Eric, are you a boot cut on the jean? What what cut do you like to wear? >> Probably more just straight.

>> Just straight. Okay. Very good. You got to wonder, you know, because you picture a millionaire, Ken, people think of >> I thought maybe he rides a horse and he wears boots.

>> Yeah. You think of an athlete, a celebrity, and then you got the Erics of the world just out there in their straight cut jeans. >> Yeah. Now, Eric, George and I are both short, so we have to have our jeans tailored.

Do you wear yours right off the rack? >> Right off the rack. It's the most amazing thing.

>> That's incredible. I love it. Too much on the jeans now. I got to move. >> I want to ask about the cars. People always want to know, what do millionaires drive? We see people driving around fancy cars. What do you guys have? Give us the year, makes, and model >> for the We drive Hond's. We have owned Toyotas in the past, though. So, my wife drives a 15 Honda Pilot. I just got a 12

Honda Pilot cuz I just passed an 06 and Accord down to a a 14year-old driver.

>> Wow. That's awesome. You were driving a car that is 14 years old.

>> Yeah. And I kind of miss it to be honest with you. >> Wow. >> And and and tell people why, Eric, we're asking that question. How does it play into this financial picture you gave us?

Well, I mean, yeah, we've spent some money in repairs and maintenance, but I I'm not going to write a check for $40,000 for a brand new car and just watch all that value disappear. I'm just I got too much tight wad syndrome in me.

It's going to be hard enough just to to upgrade even when we are debtree.

>> Even Even if you had an extra 500 grand laying around, you're still like, I don't know that I want to sink it all into that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, especially as a CFO, you understand, you know, fiscal responsibility.

Yes. A little too much. >> Would you uh would you ever upgrade to a Hyundai by any chance?

>> No, probably not. >> Okay, there you go. >> I don't think I would call that an upgrade at all.

>> Boom. >> Oh, wow. >> Hyundai burn. >> Wow. He took a shot at them. >> Well, if you're a Honda man, you know, you're >> Well, that's why I asked. >> He's an elitist. He knows those cars are great cars. U Okay. What What would you say to young people that are listening watching this? All right. >> There's a 24y old who's 20 years younger than you, just getting started. >> Yeah. Could they could they mirror what you did? What would you tell them to to get to where you are today?

>> Yeah, I think they certainly could. You just got to be you just got to start uh you just got to live off a budget. You can't just, you know, be racking things up on credit cards or not paying attention. You know, I just started using Every Dollar like two years ago, but I still have Excel spreadsheets going back to when we were first married. You got to you just got to pay attention to what you're doing. Be diligent. Pay yourself at least a little bit first. And the baby steps work. Just use them.

>> That's good. Just stay out of debt. Live below your means. As you make more money, don't spend it all. Don't have lifestyle creep eat it all up. And drive those used cars and instead build wealth instead of just trying to look wealthy.

>> Yeah. >> 100%. I remember my parents saying, "If you can't pay for it, then you can't afford it." So there you go.

>> I love that. So, how do you feel now about the future of your family, the things that you might be able to do, the kids, you know, and what they've seen you do, how has this lifestyle and now where you've just crossed this line, what a big, you know, achievement. How does that What's the emotional and mindset now that you have having crossed this line of being a a baby steps millionaire? >> It feels good.

I think honestly it'll probably feel even more real when the house is paid off and you know about the same time that uh you got a kid getting ready to go to college, line those things up, the bills never disappear, right? As the kids get older, the bill is there's just more zeros on it.

It's like, okay, you stay sit back and take the big picture and uh everything starts to open up for the future and it's like, all right, we uh we did it.

We we we ground it out. We can afford to do some things and let go of the purse strings every once in a while. There you go. You might wake up someday and you can't anymore. So, I love it. You know what else I love? The straight leg Levis's. You can dress those up or dress them down. He can wear a sport coat. >> That's good advice from a millionaire from from a CFO.

How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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All right, our scripture of the day comes from First Thessalonians 5:18.

Give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Our quote of the day from Zigg Ziggler. Be grateful for what you have

and stop complaining. It bores everybody else does you no good and doesn't solve any problems.

>> Wow. >> Uh-huh. How about that? >> Felt personal. Zigg, >> I try to make my complaints entertaining. That's the goal.

>> I find them entertaining. I don't know if that's just because of your delivery or my weird sense of humor. All right,

Bill is up in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Bill, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? Um, so I had a question for you. Uh, I'm I have all my debt paid off except for my house. Uh, and I had to take out a home equity loan on that house. Um, and I'm trying to decide which way which which loan I should focus on paying off, either the mortgage or the home equity loan, and trying to get some advice on that.

>> Yeah. Lay out the balances for us.

So the the principal mortgage is 135,000

and the home equity loan is 125,000.

>> Goodness gracious.

>> Yeah. >> You said you had to take the heliloc out. Who who forced your hand on that?

>> Uh my ex-wife.

>> Oh. So it was a buyout as part of the divorce. >> Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. >> You needed to give her her share and so he locked in. >> Correct. >> All right.

I mean you you win in the exe exceptions to the rule. >> You and you know what I like about this Bill? You got him. He thought he had you in a corner and you put him in his place.

>> I thought Bill put a real nice pool out back. >> Okay. So, you got the heliloc and you've got the mortgage. They're similar balances.

>> Okay. >> It's a variable interest rate and can be called uh due at any time. So, it's riskier than your fixed rate mortgage. I assume your mortgage is fixed rate.

>> So, yeah, they're actually both fixed.

>> Oh, it is a fixed rate. Okay.

>> Yeah. And the the the principal is a two

and 3/4% and the heliloc is like 5 and a

half. >> Okay. Yeah. I would just attack that heliloc at that point since they're similar balances. They're both fixed rate. The heliloc's got the higher balance. It's just an added layer of risk. I would want to get rid of that first and just make your normal mortgage payment outside of that.

>> Should I should I stop investing and and

and do like I was doing when I was doing this the debt snowball? >> What's your income?

uh 155 a year.

>> Okay. So, because this heliloc is more

than half of your annual income, it would be a baby step six item.

>> Okay? >> And so that would mean you're investing 15% putting money away for college if you need to for the kids and then anything else will go towards that helock while making minimums on the mortgage. >> So I don't know how long that's going to take you at this point. This sounds like it's probably going to be, you know, you're making 155.

said to pay off 125 while making investing and paying the mortgage. Is that going to make things tight? >> Uh, no. So, what I did when I took it took the helock out, I did it for 20 years.

So, the the payment was manageable.

>> Yeah. What's your goal with this? Uh, how how long you think it'll take?

>> Uh, I'm hoping in the next five years is

what I'm hoping. I know on the on the principal mortgage about 5 and a half years is what I had what I owe left on it. Um and so I would like to get both

of them kind of knocked out at the same time. >> Okay. So you'll knock out about 25 grand a year off that HELOC and you're done in 5 years and you'll be how old by then?

>> Uh 5 years I'll be 49.

>> Okay, cool. And yeah, investing 15% that

whole time only because it's more than half your annual income.

>> Okay. >> And so I would just keep on rocking. Uh it's it stinks that you're here. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but you'll clean this up in due time. Luckily, the mortgage is uh reasonable.

I mean, it's rare you hear about someone with a mortgage of 135 grand.

>> Yeah. Well, that was the goal is to have that paid off next year, but uh other things happen. >> Life happened. >> Yeah. >> Well, best of luck, man. Just think about it like this. You got, you know, 260 grand to pay off, which is still in America today a reasonable mortgage wildly. >> That's a very good point. Uh, Richard's up in Las Vegas now. Richard, how can we help?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> Good. How are you?

>> I'm okay. Thank you for asking. I'm calling because I have a question. Um, I

I uh about a few years back, I bought a

bunch of Snap-on tools uh from the Snap-On truck. And um I uh racked up

about I want to say about $7 to $8,000

in debt with the toolbox some uh a

scanner tool to scan vehicles

and um the shop that I was working for

shut down. So I was forced to just take my tools home and I didn't get I didn't continue with the mechanic career. I

ended up doing construction and things weren't going so well for me and uh you

know I went down the wrong path a little bit and I'm barely starting to get back on my feet and I got a phone call from a

recovery agency saying that now I owe uh

they have a judgment against me and now I owe them $17,000 and and actually

$17,500

um for that for that for those tools,

the interest and the judgment. Now, my

question is, do I do I try to call Snap-on Tools to pay Snap-On Tools or do I just pay the recovery agency? Cuz they say they're going to go into collections and then they're going to start a wage garnishment and take a 25% of my check.

>> Do you have cash?

>> Do I have cash? >> In other words, you just asked, should you pay? I'm asking, do you have money?

Didn't it didn't sound like to me like at the start of this call you had any extra money laying around. You got money in savings or checking?

>> I got like $3,000 saved up, but I've kind of just saving that for a rainy day because >> Well, it's raining.

>> Yeah, you need to validate all this debt. So, I wouldn't do anything yet.

Cuz here's the thing. Did they actually sue you and win and get a court order?

>> Well, that's what they're telling me. I remember getting >> Do you recall being sued and them winning?

I recall receiving a paper from Snap-On

and I messed up and I never showed up to the court date, but after that, I never got another letter in the mail saying that. >> Okay. I would call your county clerk's office. That would be your next step.

Ask if there's a judgment under your name and then validate that. And if if it's true, then yes. If there's a judgment against you and they won, they can garnish your wages and they will.

>> Okay. And should I start should I pay the recovery agency or do I go directly to Snap-On because they said that >> Snap-on likely sold them the debt

cuz you didn't pay, right? It went to collections cuz you didn't pay and now this debt recovery agency is trying to get as much as they can for this debt.

>> So the truth is you don't have the money. So what they'll likely do is allow you to settle to call this good,

but you're going to need some money in order to do that. >> Yeah. Do you have the tools still?

>> I have some of them. >> Well, how much are those worth?

>> Uh, not even half of what they're asking for. >> I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that. That's a homework assignment.

Now, I have no idea. Okay. I don't know anything about tools. But if these are nice tools and you can get some money for used tools, find out how much.

Like, go do some research. Like, you got to take this thing.

>> Got that? >> They wanted It's Yeah, they wanted eight They said they would settle if I give them First They said 9,000. I said I couldn't do that. Then they said, "Okay, they'll settle for $8,000." Um, >> that's great news for you. So contact them and tell them, "I can't do eight,

but I think I can do four." Or, "If you give me until this date, here's how much I can do." >> But look up what you can sell those tools for. That's the That's the primary thing you should be doing because you essentially stole the tools, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, sell the tools and take whatever cash, sell a bunch of other stuff, and if you can scrape together four grand, they'll probably take it.

Don't you think, George? But the key to this is Richard, you got to make sure that you have something in writing so that they can't come back and say, "You owe us more." That this is the settlement amount and I'm going to pay you. So record everything. Write everything down.

Who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said. Get everything in writing and email. And do not give them debit card access. Do not give them your bank information.

Do not agree to random payment plans. Do not let them harass you. You just got to say, "I don't have the money.

I'm working on saving up the money. And don't let this don't let this sit >> like you've ignored it for far too long. >> You didn't show up to court. Don't let somebody talk you into this or whatever path you've been down. Don't go back down that path. Own up on this thing and fix this thing. This is doable. And then you can move on. This is not the end of your life. All right, everybody.

Remember this. There's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 125. Panic Never Leads to Peace | August 6, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM11DRT12sY) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:29 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Kent Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the brand new hit on Ramsey Networks called Front Row Seat, a long form interview show where he really gets into it with successful and famous people. and you will learn a lot from that process. Be sure to join him there.

He's going to help me out today. The phone number here is8 8255225.

Ashley's in Birmingham. Hi Ashley. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I just had a question if me and my

husband should sell our house after a recent robbery.

>> Wow.

Well, that that's pretty emotionally damaging. You feel violated at a whole different level, don't you?

>> We do. We do. Thankfully, it wasn't the inside of their house. They didn't breach the inside, but they break into our backyard and stole all of my husband's lawn equipment.

>> Okay. Well, that's a weird robber.

>> What do I want? A lawn mower. Yeah. I'm thinking, what is this? Kids. Um, who

steals a lawnmower?

>> Well, that's kind of on point. So, I'm 25, my husband's 27. We've been married since April of this year, and I bought my house in February of 2024. So, we

haven't lived in it long. My husband just moved in after we got married. Um, and now this incident has happened that >> So, is this is this indicative of the neighborhood being trashy or is this just a one-off weird thing?

I don't believe so. We live in Birmingham. Um, and >> I know, but there's trashy areas like there is in Birmingham, like any area of the country, any city has them, >> right? We I mean, I don't believe so.

It's definitely an upand cominging area.

All the houses range from probably 200,000 to $400,000.

>> Is there a crime problem in your neighborhood?

>> Not that I'm aware of. >> Okay. So, this is a one-off weird thing,

>> right? As far as I'm aware, yes. And we fought a police report and we asked the policeman the same thing and that's what he had said as well. >> So why would you sell? You wouldn't sell because of one single incident that is not an indicator of what's really going on around there. It's a one-off anomaly.

>> No, you don't sell based on >> right. >> If you tell me, look, my neighbor's car got broke into that some bozo shot down the street the other night at each other. Yeah, move. Okay. But but you're

just telling me no one else in the area had a problem. Somebody stole your lawn mower, >> right? Yeah. Well, that that's my point.

My husband is, you know, a great godly

man and he wants to protect us. So, he just feels he feels violated. He feels like we're not safe anymore and he wants to sell even though I really haven't lived in the house long enough. I would like to >> That's not the point. How long you've lived in it doesn't matter. If you're unsafe, you leave. But you're not unsafe based on what you're telling me. So, he's not being logical. He's being a drama queen about his lawnmower getting stolen.

>> Okay. Okay. >> That's what you're telling me.

>> You're telling me that I'm not Am I miss What I mean? Look. Okay. I got a I live in a gated neighborhood. Very expensive homes that run from one half to $10

million. Okay. Somebody broke into one

of those houses and went to the safe and

stole the guy's guns and jewelry and got into the safe. Obviously an inside job based on the fingerprints that are all over the thing, so to speak. Um, I ain't moving.

I'm not moving. Okay. Some one of their

somebody that was helping them at that house or something got into that house.

We do not live in a crimeinfested neighborhood. My neighbor got broken into and I'm not moving. Uh, there's no crime problem, I promise you, in this neighborhood. Okay. Uh, that I'm talking about. So, no. No. I mean, you you're telling me there's no crime problem. You had a oneoff and it's a kind of unusual oneoff. You have to admit if you're stealing lawnmowers, you're pretty low on the totem pole of thieves,

>> right?

>> It sounds almost like teenagers or something goofing off when they find them in a ditch down the street. >> I I'm curious. I'm trying to as Dave's talking, I'm just going, okay, I'm trying to put myself in your husband's shoes because you got to handle this delicately. Um because you can't tell him what Dave said about him, you know, but I don't think >> Yeah, you can.

Anytime Dave say he's a drama queen. >> Yeah, that you said it. She can't say that. Uh here's what have the police said on this deal.

Are there leads?

Are we missing any details?

>> No, not that I'm aware of. The house is across the street from the gas station or a gas station and that has made my husband nervous since I bought it. But we've never had any issues beyond this.

It's on a main road, so a lot of people can >> How much How much financial loss in all that lawn equipment? Is it just one lawn mower or is it more? >> You got insurance on it.

>> I know. I'm just asking some questions.

>> I I >> Listen, I think I have a different take than Dave. I on this one. I think if your husband's wigged out by this, whether it's a one-off or not, I think you guys have got to process this a little bit more. And I, if it were me, I would want to know a whole lot more about suspects. Um, you know, uh, I I

think this area is probably a little bit more sketchy than you're leading on.

That's what I think. I could be wrong. I don't think this is like a super nice area of Birmingham. And so, if they if they targeted you once, they may target other places. I just would give it a little bit more conversation with your husband. I also get your point that I don't want to necessarily move this house right away. So, I'm with Dave. I wouldn't just up and throw a sign in the yard, but I would talk about it a little bit more and figure out what's going on.

I just don't feel like we're getting everything. >> When you're in an emotional situation, facts are your friends. >> Yeah. >> So, I'll go with you on that, Ken. You need to gather more facts. Yeah.

>> But, um I I I just sensing an emotional

reaction >> to a situation that's not that the emotions don't match the facts that I've been given. >> Yeah, that's right. >> I think that's absolutely right. And and it and let me tell you, when you get stolen from, whether it's out of your yard or out of your closet, it it's emotional. >> It's a there's a sense of violation.

>> Yeah. >> That especially when it's in your personal residence that um is a big

deal. I mean, um >> and you know, some people in some areas are more than others, but um she's a southerner, he's a southerner, I'm a southerner. We don't put up with this crap. We we got no this law and order stuff is a big deal to people like us.

So yeah, I get it. I understand that.

But it but I I kind of think moving is a little bit of an overreaction to the information I've been given. >> I agree with that. >> So but I do I'll go with you. Let's gather some more facts.

>> And based on the facts make the decision, Ashley. That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. >> But the facts you gave us do not indicate selling the house.

>> Yeah. >> That's what I'll go with. All right. Uh anyway, that's the deal. Let me put that back on hold. We don't got a second time. So, that's interesting. I haven't had that in a long time. Uh, but it does remind you that you need to do stuff like um uh your your property and

casualty. You need to know what's going on with your homeowners insurance point.

>> What what is covered because most homeowners insurance policies cover contents for theft and fire as a general

amount. If you have an expensive item or two, which this would not be, this would have been covered under the thing I'm talking about. But like say for instance you knew somebody had too many guns, >> you'd want to list those as a separate schedule >> and pay a little extra premium to cover the gun collection. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That kind of a thing.

>> And let's talk about home security, which >> I should I said that wrong. There's no such thing as too many guns, but if you had if you knew someone that was trying to attempt to hit that number.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I would beef up security and let these guys know we're not going to put up with this. I think there's steps you can take before selling the house. >> Yeah. the little sign that says you're on video so we can have the tape of when we shot you. >> Yeah, that's right. So it'll hold up in a court of law.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Shay is with us in Canada. Hi Shay, welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, kind

of a quick question, I hope. Um, I I

can't use the premium version of Every Dollar because I'm waiting for you to drop it in Canada, but until then, I'm trying to manually use it.

>> Yeah, Canada's Canada's waiting for us to conform to crap we're not going to conform to. So it's not my fault. It's Canada's fault. But anyway, >> I Oh, I believe it. I'm American actually. I just live there. Um, but so

I have an emergency fund. I'm a single mom and with my two kids, I try to keep

a couple syncing funds because like I

have like an SOS fund I call it. Um, and it's about $1,000 and that's just for like a light emergency like, oh, my kid,

you know, needs to go to the dentist for something and it's going to cost me $600. So, I have like that set aside.

And then I have like a $500 scing fund for like I call it kid crap. It's just kid stuff. Like um back >> both of these got got used by the kids.

What happened? I'm confused.

>> Well, they always need stuff. So, >> yeah. Why don't you just put that in a budget? Um, I don't because I was trying to keep it separate. So, >> no, I'm just saying you need to put the kid crap in the budget. That's part of operating your household.

>> Okay. So, not like a sinking fund. Just >> Well, you can have a sinking fun. You can have an emergency fund, but the kids should not be creating emergencies. You should have a predictable environment.

>> They are so unpredictable.

>> No, they're not. >> I raised three of them.

>> They They become very predictable when you start telling them, "No, it's not in the budget cuz you didn't tell me about it." I know, but they like he loses a shoe

and then he I'm short a shoe and now I have to go pay $40 to get a pair of shoes. It's it just I feel like every week I'm getting slapped with something from them. >> Kids clothing has events like that and that should be in your budget.

>> Okay, >> that's not an emergency. A lost shoe is not an emergency.

>> How do you budget for something that's so flexible like that? You set aside an

amount because throughout the year you're going to have a kid tear up a piece of clothing, lose a piece of clothing, lose a shoe. That's part of having kids. They forget stuff and leave it laying around. And uh every weekend when the grandkids leave the lakehouse, we have to load a bucket full of stuff they forgot to take home and I bring it back to the office and give it out to the different kids here.

So they kids just leave stuff. I got I got Crocs, I got swimsuits, I got sunglasses, I got all kinds of crap and I'm bringing it all back every time. So, um so they can leave it again the next weekend. But that that I get you.

>> Yeah. And that's that's where I'm feeling the pressure cuz I feel like I'm living paycheck to paycheck because >> What do you make? >> I >> um about 6,000 take-home

>> a month.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. 72,000 a year.

All right. You ought to be able to live on that.

>> I Yeah, I have I I live in expensive city, so I have about 4,100 going out

and I'm trying to do the debt snowball.

So then I feel like when I have to use money for the kids or an a minor

emergency, one of the rules, put the money back. So the again the one of the rules of your budget is your budget has to reflect reality not what you wish reality is >> and what you wish reality is is that the kid didn't tear up or leave lose pieces of clothing but they do cuz they're kids and so you're just going to have to say all right the kids clothing budget includes some loss >> okay >> and you just you're not you're not budgeting enough for kids clothes >> and so you need to change your budget and it reflects reality then and also I'm going to come down on them if they're constantly losing and stuff.

I mean, if you lose something expensive like, you know, you lose a couple, you know, one of two Air Jordans, I mean, we're going to have a problem in this house. Okay. So, >> yeah, we stop with the There's no Air Jordan. >> I know, but I'm just saying if they're doing something that's way irresponsible.

They're being raised by a single mom, a warrior princess, and she's trying to get jobs done so they can conform and have a little bit more discipline, be a little bit more responsible, too. That's okay to call them out on that. But overall, it sounds like you're just not reflecting the reality of your life in your budget. So, here's an example we used to do, Shay, that was similar, and we had to correct it.

That's how I know it. Okay.

but I was in denial about it.

And so, the the repairs always landed in the emergency column. And they weren't really emergencies. They were really predictable.

And so what I did finally after I admitted to myself that that's what was going on is if I'm going to drive a car that breaks down, I'm going to have to have more in the repair car repair line

item in my budget so that I don't get bit by this.

>> Yeah. I mean, we had uh we have three kids and uh the boys were growing rapidly and so we got we had to sit down and adjust our budget and we looked at, okay, what do we think uh the entire year, all three kids, what do we think we're going to put out for clothing? And it's a very simple process. You just got to try it and get it right, get it wrong, and then, you know, divide it by 12.

And to Dave's point, you're putting that away. So that's no longer stress for you. It's really simplifying. And right now, it feels complex because you haven't allowed for it.

So then something pops up and now it's creating stress. So simplifying, as Dave told you, is also going to take away that emotion that you're feeling like, "Oh, I can't keep up with this." When in all reality, you can. >> Yeah. It's very doable.

Sarah's in Milwaukee. Hi, Sarah.

>> Hi, I'm doing great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have been listening to your show for the last few weeks and really trying to sit down and think about next steps.

>> Cool. >> And my husband and I just got married in January. >> We bought our home about a year ago

>> and just trying to figure out everything financially. Right now, I have 10,000 in

savings and kind of just going through all my debt and kind of just saying, "Okay, what should I tackle first? What about retirement?" Like, there's just so many questions, but really just what to battle first. >> Okay. All right. Um,

how much debt do you guys have?

>> So, right now, uh, 15,000 in credit card

debt. >> Mhm.

11,000 I still owe on my car. He does not owe anything on his.

>> I have 30,000 left in student loan.

>> Um our home we put 50,000 down so we

don't have any PMI. So we owe 170.

>> Good. >> On our homes. >> What's your household income?

>> It is 140,000 combined right now.

>> Phenomenal. Way to go. You guys got a great start. just like you said, you've got to clean up some debt. So, um what Sarah, what we've been teaching for a long time to great success is the simple

concept of the fastest way to become

wealthy is to quit giving your money to everyone else in the form of debt.

Your most powerful wealth-b buildinging tool is your income. And when you give it all away to student loans, credit cards, and car payments, you don't have any money to become wealthy with or to be generous with. Pretty simple math thing, okay? If you give your money away, you don't have as much. It's that simple, right? So, we got to get rid of that blocker that's blocking you from becoming wealthy. You make a good income. You have the opportunity to join hands literally and figuratively and

financially with the person you just married. So the two of you can sit down tonight and say we are going to together

set some goals and we're going to attack this debt so that we can become wealthy

so that we can live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else so we can have a great life in other words. Okay. So, all of that, that's the underlying premise. And then what we figured out is that >> people need an order to attack these things. And somewhere around 30 years ago, we started teaching people to work what we call the baby steps. You may have heard that already. >> The baby steps are first thing you have is $1,000 in the bank. You've already got 10,000.

>> Okay? But a th000 is all you need for right now. So, we're going to take nine of that and apply it to baby step two.

Baby step two is you list all of your debts, smallest to largest. You pay

minimum payments, the normal payment on everything but the little one. And you attack the little one with everything you can squeeze out of your budget and with $9,000.

So, I'm going to take the first $9,000 of your smallest credit cards and pay them all off and cut them up tonight with your husband and I'm going to have $1,000. Then, I'm going to beat the snot out of this debt in the next in 6 months and get rid of it. All of it. And then when you don't have any payments, I'm going to build an emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses.

Take the $1,000 account, raise it back up to a good solid savings account. Then baby step four, start putting 15% of your income away for retirement. If you do this, in 7 to 10 years, you will be debtree house and everything and have close to a million dollar net worth. I'll show you how to do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. A lot of drama around real estate.

And as Dr. John Deloney says, when you're facing drama or a crisis, facts are your friend. So, what are the facts in the real estate business? Not what is somebody on Tic Tac saying. What are the actual facts? not what your broke mother-in-law with an opinion said. What are the actual facts about real estate?

Well, the facts are there's 1,82,520

homes on the market in the United States right now. That is the highest inventory

of homes for sale available since 2019.

However, demand is still exceeding the

inventory. So that means prices have not

gone down nor will they unless inventory

exceeded demand. That's the only time you see prices drop in any commodity including housing. So these are basic facts and the median home price today is

$441,000 in America. It's gone up just a tiny bit

every month this year. Like $1,000 or

something. Nothing. So, but home prices are steady to trending barely up. Those

are the facts. The facts are interest rates are exactly where they were, 5.95

right now. So, under 6% for a 15-year

fixed rate. So, all in all, it's really good time to buy a piece of real estate or sell a piece of real estate if you're ready. If you're out of debt, you got your emergency fund, you got a down payment. All in all, that's the facts.

You're okay. And if you need to sell a house right now, it's nothing to panic about. There's people buying houses and you know it's happening. So if you want to learn more about all this, go to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes and we'll help you out that way. Ashley's in Pittsburgh. Hey Ashley, what's up?

>> Hi Dave and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. My husband and I are both Yeah, my husband and I are both in our mid30s and just had our first baby. >> Yay. >> I'm currently on maternity.

>> Very exciting. Um, I'm currently on maternity leave and trying to decide whether to go back to work or stay home with our baby. Um, financially we can afford for me to stay home. We're debtree, including our home, have an emergency fund, and we've been pretty disciplined about saving and investing.

Um, but we're torn because of a couple of other factors. The first is that we both work in tech, and with how fast AI is moving, we're concerned that our jobs could change or even disappear in the future. So, part of us feels like we should double down on income and savings now while we can.

>> Um, so my question is, since we can afford either path, how would you think through this decision?

>> Well, first question I have is forget everything you just threw out in those two concern buckets. What does your heart want to do? Okay. What do you want to do? Let's start there. Ideal.

>> Sure. I guess I nothing could replace the time with our children or our future children. Um so, you know, my heart's leaning towards staying home with >> All right. So, we start there. That's your that's your ideal situation. Now, uh let's take the first bucket. You both work in tech. AI is what you're thinking about because everybody's wondering how is AI going to shake out? How is it going to affect tech jobs? Will it spin off new jobs? Um, one of the things I

would do because you're both in tech and you have knowledge of where tech is now.

You probably have knowledge of where you think it's going. People that maybe more advanced than you guys are. I would be talking getting a lot of feedback almost like a Halloween uh candy bucket knocking on doors getting a lot of candy. I'd get a lot of real legitimate feedback, not headlines, not people that are driving clicks.

And I would I would look at what does the future look like personally. I was on Fox Business probably three weeks ago. One of the topics they asked me about uh was what do I think about AI and it removing jobs? And that morning I had done some research and I went all the way back to the printing press in history.

I'll save you the entire study that I did in about 30 minutes. And I looked at what the media of the day and what the

hand ringing and the pearl clutching of the day was around all these advances in technology from the printing press to where we stand today. And here's what's crazy, Ashley. It all sounded the exact same. The alarm was it's going to kill jobs. And throughout history, what we saw is it there was some recession of jobs in the immediate, but it always spun off more jobs. And I think AI is

going to do the same thing. And and that's just me doing some historical homework and and talking to people that are experts in the industry. And I think it's going to spin off a lot. So that but do your own homework on bucket one.

Bucket two is can I reenter let's say 18

years from now if I want to? and and I've coached a lot of moms on this particular issue and the answer is you can. Now, will you have to get some

additional qualification if the puck has

moved over 18 years and it's understandable that it might yes but to

be completely outdated. I'm not valuable. I have no skill. I have no experience. That's a bunch of garbage and that's not true. So with staying a

uh kind of a finger on the pulse uh

maybe 14 years in and going okay I think four years from now I feel good I want to come back. You got enough time to upskill and if you keep relationships I think you'd be fine. That's my take on those two buckets. >> Yeah. Take a out of it. If you went back

just 10 years and you stepped out of the technology market and you try to step back in today, you'd have to retool,

>> right? >> 10 what you would be, you know, what were we using 10 years ago? Coal fusion.

Nobody uses coal fusion today. And so

you would have been you probably if you were doing if you're writing code, you might have been proficient in coal fusion, which is now a dinosaur. Nobody uses it. >> Okay? You know what I'm talking about, right? And so, and you know, by the way, nobody's very few people are housing servers in their offices anymore. 10 years ago, I had a I had a room with a air conditioner in it full of servers.

Today, I don't have one. Everything's in the cloud. And I've got a much bigger operation than I did 10 years ago. So, technology shifted in hardware, software, line, uh, you know, the internet. So anytime something comes along that is a disruptor and that has a high rate of change like technology does like the internet the appearance of the internet was supposed to put entire segments of the culture out of business. Instead it created to Ken's point a lot of new jobs. Uh there was no such thing

as a someone who built websites prior to

the internet. And while the internet might have put out some kind of job it created a whole bunch of people that built websites. And there was no such thing as email. Um, and so, you know,

did the postal carriers all go out of business? No, not because of email, you know. And there was no such thing as and keep filling in the blanks. So, 100%

chance the knowledge that you have today, whether you stay in the market or whether you go home, the knowledge you're using today is going to be irrelevant 10 years from now.

>> Right. Yeah. So either way, you're going to either stay up with the market by staying in the market or you're going to retool when you get ready to head back into the market. So given all of that, if I'm you and hearing what you said about wanting to be at home, I'm staying home. The only thing driving you to not stay home is fear about your career. And

fear is not a good decision-making tool.

And in this case, it's not accurate because you have to you're going to have to stay up with change or retool to hit change no matter what. We live in the highest rate of change environment in the history of mankind.

The change rate in transportation in the last 50 years, the change rate in communication in the last 50 years is more than the 500 years previous.

So that that's the environment that we all live in. And so he who hates change is screwed.

That's what it amounts to. You better embrace it. And I hate it. I'm like everybody else. I don't They just put new I just got another computer and they put new stuff on my computer and I'm pissed off again trying to figure out how to run it, you know, and it takes me a little while to get through the frustration of the learning curve. And then they'll give me another it'll be um download for Apple version 87.46

or whatever the crap it is. And now I got to now my iPhone doesn't work anymore the way it used to. Now I got to figure out all that cuz they were trying to help me. You're killing me. But that's the world we all live in is this rate of change. If I had sat down in

1975 in a car that I drive today, I

wouldn't have known how to start it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Brandon's in Knoxville.

Hi Brandon. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, good to talk to you. How you doing? better than I deserve. How can I help? >> Um, I just had a pretty quick question.

Um, I me and my wife uh decided that

we're going to sell our house and be moving back to our hometown in Florida.

Um, our house is actually listed below

the median price here in East Tennessee.

Um, and in almost three months, we've

only had four showings.

And I was just wondering if you thought that was normal.

>> No.

Well, I mean it depend what what's the price?

>> Um the price of our house right now is 3649.

>> Okay. And what are the comp what are the comparable sales in your area? I couldn't give a crap less what the median price in East Tennessee is because there's million-doll houses and there's $100,000 houses and there's neighborhoods associated with both. What is your house appraised at? So, our

house was appraised at about around 400

is what it was appraised at >> by who? >> Um, and then when she uh our realer did comps on it, um, she said that listing

at 399 was an accurate pricing.

>> Um, which again, it's more than fair

because, uh, we bought during 2020. Um, so it's more than >> What are the pictures? What do the pictures look like? The pictures they took and put on the internet. We we uh we got a professional photographer. Um

he did the whole new 360 camera walkthrough thing. >> Yeah. Did he expose the ugly? I mean, is the house ugly from the street?

>> No. I mean, everything looks great. I've put a lot of work into it. I've re redone just about anything you can imagine in it. Everything looks good. The landscaping looks good. Um we just

we've only gotten four showings and I'm just I >> Are you in Are you in an outlying area?

Um, I'm actually right by one of the major airports over here. Um, pretty

much near right next to the city of Knoxville. I mean, we're in a great location. It's right next.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're not in Knoxville.

You're in Alcoa.

>> Oh, yeah. They uh the girl asked and I think she's >> That's okay. That's fine. I'm just I I was born in Mar. I was born in Marville.

>> So, >> Oh, were you really? Wow. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I actually know where you are.

Um the um hm

>> well that market's booming. That market in that topside road, all that stuff is booming. And you know, you've had a lot of good industry move in there. Um and

and so there shouldn't and your price you are a um you know, mid-range price and that thing should Yeah, you're not there's a problem. Have you asked the real estate agent why it's not being shown? I'm sure you have.

>> I've asked And here's another question I had. Um, do you think a month and a half

to do the first open house was way too long? >> Open houses usually don't sell anybody but the seller.

>> Okay. >> Number of times you sell a house at an open house is fairly low.

>> I'm wondering if if if your real estate agent um, how many houses did your real estate agent sell last year?

>> Uh, I'm going to be completely honest with you. I don't know. It's a family friend that I went with.

>> Well, what was her answer? You you never answered uh Dave's question on what did she say? >> Why did she say it's not selling? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um >> that's okay. >> You just said to be patient. She said it's the market that's being slow. Um, I

ended up uh doing my own comps with actually a a friend of mine uh that does

real estate and uh they actually two of

them and they both said they uh don't have any idea why in the world it wouldn't even get more than 10 showings by now.

>> So, it's not we don't think it's price.

We don't think it's ugly. We don't think it's the location. >> Not ugly. >> We don't think it's the location. It's not far out. >> Location is good. Um, should they be doing more uh online advertising or how should a realer be doing that?

>> Yeah, here here's what I'm concerned about. The the only other thing I can think of is um when you said family friend, I I went gulp because that's not how you select a real estate agent. You select a real estate agent by getting a high octane, high protein, high performer because this is a huge asset

and you're hiring a marketing consultant and they need to actually sell like, you

know, 50 to 200 houses a year or you shouldn't be using them to sell your house. So, I'm afraid this person might be selling three houses a year and there's no personal momentum around them, around their company, around their name. And so when another real estate agent that is high octane sees that sign versus a different sign, they're they're not giving it due because the person that's got it listed. I'm afraid you got a weak sister, so to speak, with a sign in the yard.

So, um, you might want to change just on that basis. And not not because I don't think they're doing horrible, but I just don't think they're doing it. And you've obviously said that and you've got that concern. So, I I think you just call them up and say, "Hey, listen.

Um, in in the name of preserving our friendship, I'm becoming very frustrated and I think we need to separate. I know you tried. Thank you for that, but I need to try something else now.

So, we're going to we're going to try something else. And thank you for trying. >> Yeah, fair enough. I agree. And I I messed up because uh this is the first house I've ever had to sell. So, I've never had to do that before. >> Okay. That's okay. A lot of people do this. It's the they're um you know, but

if I hired you, if you worked for me and you were to select a consultant to assist with a $400,000 asset, and you

selected a consultant who doesn't do it very much, I would fire you.

>> See what I'm doing?

>> Because you hired somebody that's not got a proven track record in the marketplace. So go to ramsysolutions.com and click on real estate. Find one of the Ramsey trusted real estate agents.

There's several in your area. Interview two or three of them and interview them like you're hiring a marketing consultant that you're going to pay 20 grand to cuz you are.

And so you ought to get you ought to they ought to come in with a presentation about how awesome they are and how much volume they move and what the marketing plan is to move your property. And they ought to earn your business by their professionalism and their productivity.

And that's how you would hire a good marketing consultant. That's how you hire a real estate agent. So 85% of the

real estate agents, people are not in the business three years after they start. The average income earning of a

real estate agent in America today is $36,000.

Because they go get their license and they sell one or two houses a year.

You do not want those people selling your house.

I don't care if it's your uncle Charlie.

He's sweet Uncle Charlie. He sucks as a real estate agent. I don't care if it's Gilda down at the church. I'm sure Gilda's a sweet little church lady, but she sucks as a real estate agent.

>> You don't hire Gilda. That's not Don't hire Uncle Charlie. Don't hire Gilda.

>> I agree. >> And we people do this all the time. And and sometimes the people that get their license and their brand new friends and their old friends and new licenses, they get pissed off if you don't use them.

I've had a real estate license since I was 18. I listed our house with one of our Ramsey trusted things people many years ago and one of our friends got mad at me and I'm like, well, there's like three people in line in front of you. A, the guy who listed it. B, me with a license before we would get to you who doesn't sell any houses. So, you just sit over there in your house and be pissed off. That's just dumb. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So, no, we're not doing that. That's so but that's Brandon. You did what everybody else does and so I think you just go gently and kindly correct the

situation, interview like you were hiring a professional marketing consultant for a piece of real estate cuz that's what a real estate agent is.

And then you get someone that you can connect to and that is very convincing of their productivity and their proclivity, their competence, their high octane. they move property and someone

wants to sell a house, then maybe they ought to have sold a house >> like 50 times last year >> or a hundred times last year. >> You know what stuck out to me is the first answer to Brandon's question, legitimate question was be patient. That tells me that the reason that she said to be patient is because she's a little too patient. I'm thinking of the lady that Stacy and I have used for a long time.

She's one of the top producers in all of Tennessee, top two or three in this area.

That's a warning sign. And that, to your point, is a wiring issue. It's a results

issue. >> Yeah. >> And listen for things like that. >> It might not be the real estate agent here. It might not. >> We don't know. This could be a high producing real estate agent. We don't have the numbers on this agent, but we do know he's unhappy with her. So, let's let's change horses. Yeah, it's okay.

Nothing wrong with that.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at825-55225.

Nicole is in Colorado. Hi Nicole. How are you? >> I'm well. How are you doing today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um so I had a question about kind of

like an in between baby step thing. So essentially we have a couple larger

lumpsum um amounts that should be coming uh into our session within the next few months. And I wanted to know whether I should just throw all of it to the remaining student loan debt, which is the only debt we have, or if we should split it, putting some towards a potential down payment and then the rest towards the student loan. Um, kind of building both things simultaneously.

>> So, how long have you been working to get out of debt?

>> Um, relatively recently. Um, my student loans were in deferment with the all the

COVID stuff and everything like that.

Um, and then my husband uh the union contract through his job finally reached an agreement. Um, so he has a bunch of back pay coming in and we have a sizable um, uh, tax return

>> that should be coming in. Uh, and so it

will >> So you just started a system and then I'm going to poke at you. Are you ready to be poked? Oh yeah.

>> And then your first thing is to cheat the system.

>> Uh via the home buying process.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to be buying a house till you're out of debt. And so we need to put it all on the debt so we can get the debt cleared. >> How much debt? How much debt do you have? >> Less than 24,000. It's >> And how much is all this back pay and taxes amount to?

>> Um it should reach about 25.

>> Oh, so you can pay everything off.

The other issue is that we have two vehicles that are completely paid off.

You know, old buy outright sort of things, but they need some work. So, there's no way I can actually put all of that into the debt because >> are they not running?

>> Well, they are functional, but >> good. Put it all on the debt.

>> Quit screwing around with this. Get out of debt. It's the thing holding you back from everything. Now that you're out of debt, what's your household income?

>> Uh, let's see here. our household income

uh before after taxes and insurance and such. Um afterwards would be take home of 53,000 roughly.

>> Okay. But you're but you had insurance coming out of that and taxes too much in taxes coming out because you got a tax refund. >> Oh, so before taxes and insurance it's about 71. >> Okay.

All right. And so what what repairs need to be done to the car and what do they cost? Um, so I just called and got a quote the other day for the biggest thing, which is like the timing belt and water pump. And then I also have an O2 sensor which is affecting um acceleration.

>> And so that should probably come out to be about 25 to three grand or >> O2 sensor is not that. The timing belt is >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. But the timing belt is the bigger.

>> Yeah. Run get the O2 sensor fixed out of your budget and then start saving in the next month. go ahead and do the timing belt. You can do it in a month, >> okay? >> And let's get them fixed and get them going. Keep keep things running. Now you're out of debt. Then you need to build your emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then you need to save for a down payment.

>> Okay. >> And that's what we teach. And you already knew that.

>> Yeah. I was trying to listen to as many as possible to kind of get an idea if anybody else asked my exact same question or not. No, I mean you you knew the process though was that we get out of debt and have an emergency fund before we buy a house, didn't you?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, yeah. >> Yeah, you knew that. And you you've been listening long enough to know that part.

And so, let's just stick to that. And that's going to be your shortest distance to getting a home in a situation where the home is not creating stress and instead is a blessing.

>> Okay. >> I want you to get a house. I don't want the house to get you, kiddo.

>> Yeah. Well, particularly since we're not exactly on the higher range of income, so it's not exactly like we're affording a fancy totally redone.

>> Make sure you don't have How many years in a row have you got tax refund?

>> Um, so this is probably the fourth.

>> And how much has been your tax refund?

>> Um, let's see. Last year was about 11,000. >> Okay. What that means is they're taking almost $1,000 a month too much out of your checks >> and then they give it back to you a year later with no interest.

>> Yeah. Well, particularly since the W2 has not been amended to account for the children we have had, >> you need to amend the W2 to account for $10,000.

$800 $850 a month needs to come home more than is coming home now.

>> Oh, that would be substantial. >> That'll help your budget. See, and that'll pay for the timing belt and everything else. You don't need to have a savings account with the IRS. That's what a tax refund is.

>> Yes. >> Monthly, you make a deposit into the IRS and at the end of the year they give you a tax refund. Santa Claus does not live in Washington. That's your money. Didn't come from him. I know him well. He lives in North Pole, not in DC. Matter of fact, he's like most of us. He doesn't even like DC. So, yeah, that's fun. Kid,

you're going to do great. Stick with the system. Let me send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. you and your husband both go through that and both of you hold hands and get dialed in and really focused maybe for the first time in your lives on the details of this stuff and then work those baby steps. Exactly.

And that'll get you a home that's a blessing faster than anything else. You know, Ken, I was uh on a guy's podcast a while back who's very successful and he surprised me um when he said um

you know I've known you he I've known him for a decade and he goes I've never done your stuff till about two years ago and he goes I finally started doing it and I did it exactly in detail the way

you teach and he goes the progress we've made is in a short period of time enormous and then he said something that kind of shocked me. He said, "My problem was I refused to submit myself

to a system." >> That's right. And I thought that's an interesting word choice because that's, you know, I if you bring in a personal trainer and they have a six-pack and you got a keg, you have to submit yourself

to their advice and their eating pattern

that they're suggesting, their workout pattern that they're suggesting because they have a six-pack, you got a keg. So,

you need to know that they know something you don't know. And you don't need to tell them how to do this. They know how to do it.

>> Yeah. And the guts interesting. It is interesting. And the guts of this is focused discipline. That's the key. I I

also want to give Nicole u your quick

read the the momentum theorem because I I think that's fabulous. You know what I mean? To just really understand the power of that and then get into the baby steps. It's quick read. >> Okay. You know, because what you're teaching here for her. She's been listening, but she really needs to understand what makes the baby steps so powerful is that it is exactly the illustration you used. It's like a trainer who's going to come in and be very focused on nutrition plus exercise.

We're going to work on >> am I going to do it?

>> That's the issue. You got to submit to, as your friend says, >> because none of us I don't like that word. >> No, >> I don't want to submit to nothing.

>> Well, it takes our illusion of power away. >> Yeah. I don't want to um I don't want to submit myself to what what's that? No, no, thank you.

>> I feel like I'm bowing down or something, you know? >> It's a weird word, >> but what it means is I'm admitting that my plan is not working and I need to try yours.

>> That's what I'm admitting when I do that. And that was interesting.

>> And he said it made huge progress after that. >> Yeah.

[Applause]

[Music]

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[Music]

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Antonio is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Antonio. How are you?

>> Hey, doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I was uh curious. I have a small um

power washing business that I'm hoping to be able to do full-time next summer, and my wife and I are still in baby step two. We were not sure if we should uh

put money away for like a larger emergency fund to cover expenses uh for

the business and as well as home. Um since I'll be like fully self-employed over the summer next year. >> What do you make in your at your regular job now?

>> Uh at my regular job, we bring home

around just over $8,000 uh a month.

>> You or you and her?

>> Uh my wife and I. >> What do you make? You're the one that's going to quit. >> Uh about 6,000.

>> So you're going to make $72,000 a year with pressure washing profit.

>> Uh well, sorry. So I I drive school buses uh during the school year and so in the summertime we find our own work and that's kind of what I was hoping to do um like in the in the meantime

basically over summer. Um so I wouldn't be like full-time throughout the whole year. It's just in the summertime that's when we're busiest power washing. >> Okay. What were you doing in the summer?

This summer I actually uh picked up a concrete uh truck driving job >> with my CDL and that's that's paid well.

What did you make >> that again? And uh that's that sorry that's when I'm bringing that's when I'm bringing 6,000 >> uh from is the is a concrete.

>> Okay. So for three months so 18,000 bucks you've got to make in pressure washing to offset the concrete truck job. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Is in the in the summertime only. Am I right? Am I hearing all that?

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. And what do you make driving a school bus?

>> Uh, that fluctuates because we we kind of can do as much overtime as we want, but it's probably closer to about 5,000 a month. >> Okay. 9 months a year.

>> Correct. >> Okay. All right. Good. So, Ken and I teach with small business ideas that you want to pull the boat close to the dock

um before you jump in. But this is not that big a deal because it's only for 3 months. So you don't really have to have a big emergency fund. You just need to get busy in the spring and line up a

whole bunch of jobs. Listen, so when is the last day you drive in May?

>> Uh the last day would be I think it's May May 20th, something like that.

>> So the 1st of May, I want you to start

calling on people and setting up jobs to begin on the 20th. And I want you to

fill up um the 10 days of May and all of

June before May 20th. I want you to

fully do your marketing and book up the first month of work solid.

>> Okay. >> All right. And you already have the equipment, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. I have a paid for trailer, all the equipment. Yeah.

>> All right. And so so I want you to book up. And so here's what happens during

the month that you are doing that work.

you go and get the other two months booked up. If at any time you don't get

something booked up, you got to shut down and go do something else.

>> So, if during the 20 days of May that we

are driving a truck and booking up and at night knocking on people's doors and getting pressure washing jobs or whatever you're going to do to get the jobs, if during that 20 days you can't get that month full, you have to go drive concrete truck instead.

>> Okay? So you have to prove this business

idea or not do it.

>> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That would also be more peace as well because then I'm not stressed if >> you don't need any emergency fund to do what I'm talking about.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> All you need is business.

>> Yep. >> And a plan and a plan B if business doesn't hit. >> Uh two questions. How many hours are you

working on average? Because you mentioned overtime. How much are you working? Uh when driving the school bus nine months a year, what's an average week hours wise?

>> Uh my average Oh man, it was close to

like 50 55 hours um when I was picking

up all the overtime. >> Okay. The reason I asked >> five days a week, right? >> Yeah. The reason I asked that is I would also add to Dave's advice. I'd be doing pressure washing on the weekends, Sunday afternoons, some Saturday mornings if you've got time, if you can handle that load. You may not be able to. Second question is, what is the the difference

in in rate per hour if I'm pressure washing for myself versus driving the concrete truck? What's the difference in hourly pay?

>> So, the the concrete truck is a 28 an hour uh right now. And like I there's

potential for raises of course next year, but um power washing I try to like

whenever I go give a quote I try to get somewhere around $100 an hour where I could take home like most of that.

>> Yeah. >> Uh since since I'm not putting any money into the business right now. It's all going to baby step two. >> Yeah. Okay. That's good. I I just wanted to know. So that means that means you're making almost 4x >> y >> per hour. So that means you could work one/4th the hours and make exactly the same money >> if the pipeline is full.

>> But you've got to get those hours booked. You got to get slammed. And if you can get yourself slammed 10 hours a day doing pressure washing for 3 months, you're going to make a pile of money.

>> Mhm. Yeah.

>> So, how have you been acquiring customers?

Um actually so um I the only most of the

customers I've been watching for this summer after like I'll do it after I drive the trucks. Um so I'm working a lot more. >> Good. >> Uh I partnered with an HOA from some someone who I know at church is the secretary for the HOA and she heard I had this the small business and offered to partner and um so we that's all it's

been is referrals within that neighborhood. It's a very large neighborhood and I haven't had to do door knockocking or anything. And thankfully people are just reaching. >> So what are you paying her?

>> Uh oh, I didn't I didn't pay her.

>> Oh, so when you say partner, you didn't partner. She she just was your source.

She helped you. >> Yeah, correct. Sorry. Yeah, they Yeah, they they like to have like local businesses that can come in. Like they have a landscaper. Yeah. And then they asked me to come in. So >> good. Good. Well, that's a great partner. I like that kind of partner.

>> Yeah, I was that was my first question.

What what's your what's her take on this deal? >> Okay. So, yeah, I think so. you've got a good source and if you start working that HOA leads and even people you worked for last year and swing back around say, "Hey, I'm going to I'm going to gear up May 20. When can I put you on the schedule?" They're going to line up.

Right. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I got a guy that hits my my lakehouse uh which is known for mildew.

It's a lakehouse with pressure washing every spring and he's got pretty much a set gig. All we have to agree on is the day he's going to do it. He's got a set customer. as long as he shows up, does the work, charges me about the same.

Yeah. >> You know, he's been doing it for years for me. >> And great guy. And so, uh, that's who you are. You're that guy. So, you can create repeat business. It swings back around annually. >> And, you know, hey, you know, Antonio's

going to be ready to go here, baby. And we're going. And, uh, >> I I love this. I I didn't know the numbers on this.

Antonio, I gotta give you this. Take this or or leave it. Uh in my neighborhood, we saw an ad recently in the whatever the neighborhood newsletter is uh about a young guy who is going around pressure washing garbage cans, which you know can get pretty nasty. >> I'd add that to the thing.

You may be surprised. It might add a little 30 minutes to the deal. You're already there.

>> we need this kid to come over cuz it's disgusting these these garbage cans." >> Yeah. And she's like, "Ken, get out there and clean it up." >> No, she didn't. She knows better. I think she's given in after all these years.

My intentions will be good, but I'll get distracted on the way to the trash can and then come up with three other projects. It's usually my problem. But yeah, you're right. He's just out there powerwashing these trash. >> While you're there, add that as a, you know, for $25, we'll knock these out.

Because you'd be surprised how people will go because no dude that I know wants to spray out his garbage can.

>> So yeah, >> little upcharge. >> Yeah. Well, I mean he's in an HOA. He's in a neighborhood like yours. So there you go. Those rich people, they do all kinds of stuff.

>> Time is money, Dave. Somebody told me that once.

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Not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from David in West Virginia. I've recently learned that a couple of my employees mooch personal money from soft-hearted co-workers and aren't paying back what they've borrowed in a reasonable amount of time, if ever. While it may just be a couple of hundred dollars of personal money, I'm afraid of negative culture developing in the workplace. Do I have a right to address the situation since it's between them personally and the business isn't really involved?

Um,

do I have a right? Yeah, I think you do in the sense of these are people that you're employing and it's now becoming

an issue that is going it's not a gossip

issue. This is a fact at least you're outlining in a way where you know this is a fact and it's rising up to you and this affects the actual team dynamic and

I think um I think talking to uh the

people that are loaning the money is probably where I would start. I think anytime you've got a situation like this where you've got people just with bad behavior where they're loaning I mean they're borrowing basic small amount of money and not paying it back that's just irresponsible and to me that's a sign that they shouldn't be working for you.

So I would be addressing that issue. Um

not so much getting into all these details. Um I would kind of end around it instead of sit down with these people like they're little kids. I may be wrong on that. You may have a different approach, but I would probably address the fact that there's a character problem here and it's been made aware to me that's a character problem and I don't want people working for me that have character problems.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a right, you have an obligation. >> That's Yeah.

crap is happening under your leadership and if you don't do anything about it, you suck as a leader. So, you've got to do something about it. Now, then the question becomes, how heavy-handed are you? Yeah, that's what is the and what

is it that you do?

>> So, if it's a couple hundred bucks, I'm probably starting with the two people loaning money. I'm going to give them both a total money makeover book. Pay for them to go to Financial Peace University and uh here's your $200 back

and don't ever loan anybody money again if as long as you work here. If you do, I'm going to fire you. >> I like that approach. >> And just make them whole. Yeah.

>> And then shut the shut down the source.

Then I'm going to the two or the the couple of people whoever it is that borrowed the money and didn't pay it back and say this is over.

If you borrow money from someone here at

the office or get money as a gift from someone here at the office again as long as you work here, it will be your last day. You're not doing this anymore. For

you to take money from someone that's hardworking and then not give it back to them as promised is a character problem.

It's almost stealing. You're pretty close. And so, no, you're not going to do that while you work here. I I want an environment where people feel safe, where people like each other, they trust each other. That's the culture that we're going to have. And that can only occur if you are worthy of trust. And so, I have paid them the money back. You don't owe them. You are forgiven the debt. But if you ever borrow a dime or

take a dime in charity from someone else that works here while you work here and I find out about it, it will be your last day. And I'd give them a zero tolerance. One one strike, you're out from here on. So they get a warning, they're whole. The other guy's whole.

Problem solved. It's over. And then I would make an I don't know how big an organization this is, but I would just make an announcement that just says, "Hey, um, uh, guys, sometimes people want to borrow money and stuff. I've made a decision that's not okay here." And if somebody comes to you to ask you to borrow money from them, it's not okay here. You don't need to loan people money that work here. Everybody here works too hard. Nobody here is rich.

Okay? So, don't get in that business.

And you guys quit trading dollars back and forth. You don't trade spit back and forth. You don't trade dollars back and forth. You work here.

This is what we're doing. Okay? And you know, just make a general announcement. Make a joke about it and move along.

And don't don't make a big thing like we've had this serious problem and I've addressed. I wouldn't do all that. Just make a general blanket quick statement. 30 seconds.

Hey, just want to let everybody know I've got a policy on this and I'm not okay with this and don't do it anymore if you were doing it. So, uh, we're done. And but you've already addressed the other people directly, individually and privately before you get there. But you have a responsibility.

It's not just a right. >> Yeah. >> A responsibility to for the people that work there. Okay.

So, let me give you another example, Ken.

do stuff in business >> because it's business and you're supposed to just keep it all business, right? >> Well, that's a bunch of horse crap.

Okay. So, I got,00 people here. I was standing lunch line a while ago getting a taco with a young guy who just got married to another person in the building. He met his new wife here. So now I have two team members that are married that work here. Okay. And he met her here. They just bought a house. Great little couple, sharpest attack, all that. That's the good story. The other story is when someone starts dating here and it goes bad.

>> Mhm. >> And then they feel threatened or stalked or whatever. Well, that's their personal life. You shouldn't get involved in that. Dad gum right I'm getting involved in it. It's a 26-y old, 25 year old young lady that feels threatened inside our building. Right.

>> Absolutely. I'm getting involved in it.

That's not happening here under my watch. I'm the leader of this organization. Her dad expects me to make

sure she's in a safe situation.

>> And I'm an old southern gentleman and we take care of the ladies. That's how we do it. It's an old school chivalry thing. And if you don't like that, get your butt out of here and don't let the door hit you as you go out. I couldn't care less. And so that's, you know, well, you don't have a right. No, I've got an obligation to her because I got to look her dad in the face if he stops by, visits one of these days and say, "Your daughter's safe here.

>> No doofuses are going to be around her." >> That's right. >> And so, yeah, it's not a it's not just a right. It's an obligation to create a safe, highquality culture. Well, you're getting involved in their personal lives.

That's none of your business. Dad gum right. It's my business. It happened on my watch, on my payroll inside my building.

That makes it my freaking business.

everybody says I don't have a right and you it's not just a right, it's an obligation. It's called leadership. So,

but I'm not going to that that's the heavy-handed part is running down your backbone, not at the employee.

>> That's correct. >> So, I'm going to soft pedal this with the employees, >> but you know, this thing of this is a

liberal left-wing garbage. I have the right to. >> Yeah. >> You know, let me just tell you about my rights. It's got my name on the side of the building. That's my right, right?

>> Okay. That means everything happens in here is my right. >> That's correct. >> And if you don't like it, hit the door.

I'm good with that. >> Yeah. You know, and that's how this thing works. And again, I'm not I don't talk to people that way directly, but that's the inner Dave going, "Yeah, I'm going to stand up, take care, and love the people that are inside of here, and this is a quality, high class where you can meet your wife, get married, buy your first house, and I get to meet you downstairs when we're getting a taco." And I'm happy and proud that that's the environment that that young man's in.

>> Yeah. And I and I love the example you give, Dave, because you do you do that, and I've seen you do that over 11 years.

And and what's funny is the people that would attack that, it's not funny. The irony is the people that would attack that are the ones that would scream everyone needs rights and women's rights and all that. And actually when you defend someone who works for you from being stalked or from that is absolutely uh defending their right to come to work and be safe. >> Yeah. >> So the irony of the criticism of that of oh you've gotten involved in something personal. No. again they are a professional and to your point you are

responsible for a safe environment and I think that's a great juxtaposition on how you laid that out but the political correctness crap has invaded people that

own businesses and they don't they're even they're afraid to even operate their own business that's correct because I'm not sure I have the right by God you not only got the right you got the obligation Baby.

[Music]

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[Music]

Carara is in Indiana. Hi, Cara. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm a recent college grad and I paid out ofstate tuition for my degree. I kept my cost low and competed in three seasons of athletics and I earned about 15,000

in my sports scholarships. And then I also did honors college. I negotiated for more aid and applied for additional scholarships, saving around 25 to $30,000.

Um, my parents set up 529 plans for me and each of my siblings and they've always said the amounts were equal. They um chose expensive private schools and one has already overspent and is in grad school and the other is on track to do the same. I now live at home with my parents and I'm working. Um, while building a budget, I started to contribute to I plan to start contribute to my 529 to grow it for either my future education or if I decide not to go back, my child.

Um, I don't have any kids yet, but my future children. That's when this issue came up.

30,000 or more, but my parents won't tell me the exact balance. They're supportive if I go back to school, but they said no when I asked about saving it for my future children's ed education if I don't end up going back. I even once offered to give some to my siblings possibly, and they still said no. Um, and now they're considering using it for my dad's retirement. So, my question, how old are you?

>> I'm 22. >> Okay. Oh man, I'm so >> So I guess just >> Well, not number one, you've got to start looking for other housing, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. Number two, your

parents are in for a rude awakening. The 529's not under their control. It's under yours.

>> Do you have the account number?

>> I don't. No, I don't have any information on it. And from what everything they've told me, I'm just the beneficiary to it. No, that's not how it works.

>> Okay. >> A 529 is in your name and they are the custodians until you're 21.

So, this is just your money. Period.

>> Okay. >> They have absolutely no legal control over this at all.

And so, I would sit down and um what

what let's start let's back into this here. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to ramseyssolutions.com and click on smartvester pro. Okay? And

I want you to sit down with one of our Smartves pros in the investment world and let them assist you and see if you can find this account. If you can find it, just simply move it, >> okay? >> Out of their control. I mean, out of their hands where they can't find it, okay? Because it's simply not their money.

They funded it, but they it's not their money. That's the danger of a 529 or or an UTMA account. Either one. When you're 21, it is your money. Okay? And so

that's they they committed that money to you. They don't have options here. So I

I think that's right. And I think that's what you'll find. And I think you can just move it. Um, but um, if they're

going to steal 30,000 from you after you've put in all this effort to go to school with spending almost nothing, um, you should leave the home immediately.

>> Mhm. >> Are you employed?

>> I am. Yeah. I just started working and I'm looking to just save up money by living here for a year.

>> But this is a toxic situation.

You can't you can't you can't compartmentalize this kiddo.

Your mother and father are trying to steal money from you. That's what you described to me.

>> Yeah. And it's difficult because if I do decide to go back, then I don't want it to be an issue, but I'm also worried that if I don't that >> Yeah. No, I I want you I want you to find out immediately by meeting with the Smart Vster Pro. If you can find this money and if I'm correct >> that the uh 529 is in your name, then you just move it.

If you can find it, you just move it. Okay.

>> Mhm.

So, your parents are um

they're um

well, this is just it's just morally wrong.

That that's the kindest way I can say it. What they're proposing is morally wrong. When they saved money for your college and there's a balance left in the account because of your effort and they want to take that and use it and they even propose if it even came out of their mouth that they would say, "I'm going to take your money and use it for my retirement." I don't care if he put it in there or not. He put it in there for you and then you have been more responsible than the other side and in return you get your money stolen.

That's that's morally toxic and wrong.

>> Cara, you've mentioned >> I don't think I could look at them.

>> Yeah. Cara, you've mentioned a couple times I might go back. What would that What What is in your mind about that?

>> Um, so I'm a nurse and I'm looking to possibly go back for grad school, maybe a nurse anesthetist or nurse practitioner. >> Okay, both of those would be great.

>> Yeah, that's a good use of money there.

30,000 won't get either one of those though.

>> Yeah, but I figured it could help a little bit. >> Yeah. The reason I ask is I'm just trying to catch you on the front end of this. Save that money up.

You're making good money as a nurse. Uh so hopefully you get control of those funds. And if you make that decision, hopefully what we want is to see you save that up. Have a target.

>> Do not add anything to this 529 until you are in 100% control of it. And even then, I'm probably not going to add anything.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't think you need to add anything to this in any scenario, but you need to figure out if you can get control of it. And then you have need to once you do, you need to have a different conversation with your parents. And I'm out of there within 30 days if I'm you. And it's the only possible way you can maintain some kind of relationship with these folks going forward. Uh because they are, you know, that what they're doing is just really, really, really wrong. It's really toxic.

And so, >> yeah. Would you say there's a high rate of probability that if she were to pull off what you're advising her to do that they're going to be pretty upset about it? >> Oh, I'd say they're going to be so pissed they never speak to her again. >> That's what I thought, too. >> And I'm not sure that's a big loss.

>> It isn't. But I wanted her to hear that.

I wanted you to hear that, Cara, because there's really this thing's going south one way or the other. It's going to eat you alive or it's going to make them upset. You got to do what's right. And >> you may choose to walk away from this and just never look back. >> Yep. >> That may be your choice. But >> if you can get control of your money, I would. And I think I think you can.

>> I don't know if we can find it or not, but we got to get some clue as to where it is, but um maybe a Smart Mr. Pro can help you with that. I hope and they can advise you as to whether the advice I'm giving you is correct or not. I might not be correct. I'm sitting here spinning in my brain. I was real sure when I first said it. Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm right, but I think I'm right. So anyway, all right. Danielle's

in South Carolina. Hi Danielle. How are you? Oh, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. It's so good to speak to you.

>> You, too. I'm real short on time. Can you go straight to it, please?

>> Yes. Um, how to This is a big question.

I could ask something easy. How to save money at the the grocery store. I mean, I'm I'm working on uh getting married

next year. I'm engaged.

>> Good. >> So, just trying to figure out how to work through the finances.

>> Okay. getting on the same page with your fe potential fiance.

>> Yes. Well, he is my fiance.

You're not working on getting married. You're scheduled to get married. Okay.

>> That's right. >> So, all right. Yeah. I I think the way you work through with anyone is lots and lots and lots of communication about the subject.

>> The biggest thing with money is people don't talk about it until they talk until they're mad. And so, let's talk about it before we're mad. I want to talk to you about saving. I want to talk to you about debt.

I want to talk to you about a budget. I want to talk to you about combining our finances.

And I want us to be aligned on that. And so let's talk about it. And let's talk about it and let's talk about it. I hate debt. How do you feel? I love saving.

How do you feel? I love generosity. How do you feel? I want to be on a written plan that you and I are in agreement to.

I want us to combine everything and live our lives together like we actually love each other. If we're going to share a bed, we're going to share a checking account. And so what is the deal here?

and let's start talking that stuff through and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of communication on all that. And I'll tell you what, I'll give you a framework to discuss it with. It's called the total money makeover. I'll send you my copy of it for free as your engagement gift.

[Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the new Ramsay hit on Ramsey Networks called Front Row Seat where he does long form interviews with uh famous and accomplished people where you can learn the principles from them.

You will love this show. He's my co-host today. The phone number is 888255225.

Gary is in Michigan. Hey Gary, what's up?

>> Oh, not too much. Dave, Ken, how are you guys today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, well, I'm trying to get the gumption

to cancel uh a whole life policy. U been

listening to you guys for about 15 months. Uh, and I know I need to do it.

I just need to push. Um, the long story

short, I can give you a little context.

My dad was very financially successful.

Uh died about three years ago and uh I

had an annuity or he had an annuity um which was how he left me some money and there was a whole life policy that this guy who had the annuity um my dad had taken it out on me and there was some cash value there and he said well let's like you know set fire to the thing and essentially build a legacy um if that

makes sense. Uh build on your dad's financial legacy. Uh, unfortunately I did that before I found you guys. And so I'm just uh trying to deal with the emotional the emotions that come with uh with that if that makes sense. >> What are the emotions? >> Does that make sense? >> It does, but I What do you name these emotions?

>> Well, um, let's I don't I don't make a

ton of money. I work uh I work for a uh nonprofit Christian ministry. Um, and so

there's, let's just say that my dad like he was, he was very successful at what he did, ran his own business for a long time. Um, and so he kind of pitched it

in a way and made me think, oh, I'm I can take care of my kids the way my dad

took care of me. I can take care of myself. >> Yeah. But then you've discovered that that was not true. >> What is the emotion? I'm trying to help you. >> Are you pissed at him? >> Yeah. Are you afraid you're not going to live up to your dad's expectations and legacy? What is the emotion?

>> Um, I think it's I I'm not even I

wouldn't say I'm mad at the insurance agent. Um, though I mean, yeah, it's

fear mostly. >> Fear of what?

>> Um, fear of failing, I think. Um,

>> okay. Well, wait a minute. You have Let me stop. You figured out that if you

leave the money in this, you're going to fail.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so if you pull the money out of it is your only option to not fail.

>> Um it feels that way. Yeah. I don't want to I'm I'm afraid of screwing it up a second time. Like I've already screwed up by getting this policy. Yeah. and was duped into it and now I fear that I'm not smart enough to do the right thing the second time. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. You lost confidence in yourself.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, here here's the answer. Here's the antidote to that. Okay.

>> We're not going to trust the agent and we're not going to trust Dave and Ken >> and just do what anybody says anymore.

Instead, you need to learn and understand >> and in make an intellectual decision as

to what the right thing is after gathering the facts.

>> And then based on that, >> see, before you went with the agent who used a power play off of your father's memory instead of facts to make a sale.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And I've given you facts. You've you've obviously looked at how bad a product whole life life insurance is and you've decided I want to invest my money somewhere else.

>> You've got to become confident in those facts for yourself. Not because I said,

but because they're facts.

>> And when you're confident in those facts, then this becomes what's going known as a no-brainer.

>> Okay. >> Yes, I I understand that.

>> But but that's that's the emotion. and the emotion is I I'm not confident yet.

I don't know if I understand this. I'm I don't know if I'm missing something. So, here's another thing, you know, continue to gather information. Go to go sit down with a Smart Investor Pro, have them walk through with you how bad this product sucks and then what you could do with it if it was in a good mutual fund.

>> Mhm. >> And then you will cash this crap out and tell this crook to go on his way.

>> Okay. That's that's hopeful to hear.

>> I mean, you know, if somebody's stolen money from you and you discover that you wouldn't you don't need it's not you're not fearful. You're like, I'm going to get the money back. That's not fear.

That's just I I made Yeah, you did make a mistake. That's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. By the way, I bought a whole life policy when I was 22. Okay.

>> Oh, really? >> Yeah. And that that's one of the ways I learned about this. I got screwed by a college friend of my wife's who came calling right after college and this sweet little married couple and sold me the same bill of goods that they sell everybody and I was I got a finance degree and I was so stupid I bought it.

So, you know, I'm no different than you, dude. But then when I looked at the facts, I went, "Okay, now I understand I screwed up and I'm going to fix my mistake and I'm never going to do business with, you know, those that type of a thing again." and instead I'm going to put money in real investments and I have for the next 42 years and it's

worked out good for me. So I I you know I learned from my mistakes but I wasn't

paralyzed by them and that's all I want you to do.

>> Yes. Yeah. I I appreciate that a great deal. Uh, I've just I realized it when I've heard this and I've seen like the math and I've thought, "What could I do with that if I just put it in my the cash value in my Roth and >> Oh god, you just make so much more money >> here." Exactly. Yeah.

>> It's just so much It's like It's a bazillion dollar difference.

>> Yes. Uh because I've seen the returns on those and I'm like, "Wait a second." Yeah. >> Uh I I've been duped.

>> You have been duped. You got duped for sure. Yeah. And and then I'm not having a discussion with a doofus life

insurance agent.

>> No is a complete sentence.

>> Yes, it is. >> You know, you are cashing this out. I'm not talking to you about it.

>> We're closing the account. And you can just call the home office, give them the account number, and send them a letter to close the thing out. You don't even have to talk to Dofus. But if Dofus calls you, you don't have to have a conversation with him. You're not required. It's not federal law to discuss stuff with people who stole money from you. >> Yeah. And I think there's >> No, it's not. >> I think you have a fear of confrontation if I had to bet.

>> Oh, I absolutely do. And uh I'm reading u Dr. John's book and this is part of choosing reality and choosing freedom.

I >> This is going to be a great exercise for you. >> It actually is. And you said you start off a call saying I needed gumption. I'm going to give you a triedand- trueue formula and Dave laid it out beautifully. clarity, which is Dave telling you to go sit with Smart Investor Pro and look at the historical data, not someone's opinion, not a sales

pitch from a whole life salesperson, but historical data of the stock market.

This is not debatable. That's clarity.

Now watch, clarity leads to confidence, which Dave mentioned. And then confidence leads to courage. That's the formula. Clarity gives me confidence.

And confidence gives me courage to step into confrontation to step into a future that I want to make and not worry about what everybody else thinks.

Yeah. My need to make that whole life agent happy is precisely negative -2

thousand

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Michael is with us in Minneapolis. Hey, Michael. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you. So to keep it

brief and straightforward, I am 22. I've

currently came into a career job of making 25 an hour and I come from a poverty lifestyle of uh bouncing around from homelessness, shelter, stuff like that. I've got a recent opportunity to live out here with my older sister and um took advantage of it. They got me a career job. But now I'm in the situation of I'm making more money than what I'm used to and what I know what to do with, which is roughly around $4,000 a month.

And to me, that's a lot of money coming from the lifestyle that I live. But I also cannot learn to apparently budget

my impulse control or my wants and needs. And not to mention the around I'd

probably say like $1,000 and something dollars in debt for just my medical bills alone. And I'm here seeking advice on how to learn to budget and what I should do >> to maintain it because I proud of you, Michael. Well done.

>> I'm so proud of you. Well done, >> man. That's amazing. You've made huge strides. Look at how far you've come.

I mean, $4,000 a month is never a problem you had before. Now it's a problem. I love this.

Ain't that great?

>> Yeah. And it is. I really appreciate that. >> I mean, that's great. I'm proud of it.

That's amazing. Good for you.

>> All right. So, all we got to do now is make this money behave. And the problem

with my money and the problem with Michael's money is the guy in the mirror. You've already identified that.

You said it very clearly. If I can get the guy in my mirror to behave, I can be skinny and rich, but he eats too many donuts and spends all his money. You follow me?

>> Yeah, that's correct. >> That's it, man. So, I mean, that that's everybody. And you're very wise and very self-aware to say, I've got to control the ownership of your words are fabulous. I've got to control my impulses and I have to make this money behave instead of I don't want to blow this opportunity. This is the first time I've started winning and I don't want to lose. I'm that is amazing self-awareness. You are in a really good spot, sir. So, um the way you do this is

with a plan.

>> Okay. And the plan is I'm going to write

down before the month begins. In this

case, I'm going to put it into an app called Every Dollar that I'm going to sign you up for and I'm going to pay for it. No cost to you. Okay? My gift. My gift. >> I want to be I want to be part of your story because your story is awesome. So, in the app, you're going to give every dollar a name

before the month begins.

You are going to tell your money what to do before you get your money. And then

you're gonna follow that plan like your

freaking life depends on it because it does.

>> This is how you don't screw up. And you put some money in there for fun. You got

no overhead. You're living with your sister. It's not costing you anything.

What's your overhead? You got a $1,000 bill for medical. That's it, right? You got to buy some gas for your car. You got a car?

>> I I do. I recently bought a car for 3,000. But I also as an agreement, what

happens is I pay $1,300 a month in rent.

And what my brother-in-law does, he puts it in a separate bank account that I don't have any control over. So when I move out, he gives me everything that I put into it back so I can go get my >> I love your brother-in-law and sister.

They're amazing.

>> They're they are giving you a shot, man.

Okay, so we got 4,000US, 1300. So I got

2,700 bucks I got to do something with, right?

which I got to put gas in the car, right? So, there's an item in the budget. I need to buy some food. There's an item in the budget. Um, I need to pay off the $1,000 in debt. There's an item in the budget. I need to have some fun.

Hello.

Is that okay? >> Correct. I um Yep. So,

>> where are you blowing your money now?

>> Budget. >> Uh, more than anything, I'm going to be completely honest. It's more than likely the fact of my enjoyments. So,

>> okay. What are you doing to enjoy it?

What What are you doing? What are you spending on? >> I bought a PC payment and I bought a straight PC was 1,200 bucks, but instead of just paying it 12 out of pocket, I'm building my credit and put it on a on like towards a credit card for a monthly payment >> and that Oh, you bought a PC personal

computer.

>> Yep. a gaming computer that I Okay. So, the enjoyment is gaming where my influence comes in. >> You're gaming. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. So, uh when you were at

the poverty in the poverty situation homeless before, did you have any kind of an addiction problem?

>> I did not. >> Good. Good. Okay. So, beware of gaming

because it's an it's a bottomless pit of

time. >> Well, the good news is about that with my work with my career. I work seven days straight on rotating shifts. So every week I work a different shift and I work seven days straight and get two days off. I don't have too much time, okay, >> to really game and get no one no one

gets rich building their credit. So first thing we're going to do is just pay that loan off, too.

>> I don't care if you build your credit. I don't want your credit built. I want you to pay cash and stack cash.

>> I would appreciate that. >> So I want to see how big a pile of cash we can stack while we have some fun. And

some fun includes other human beings,

not just gaming.

>> Correct? >> Okay. So, like go out on a date or go out with the guys and have a beer or whatever that have a coffee. I don't care. Whatever it is. Okay. Plug in to a

good local church. There's some really good ones in the Minneapolis area. Okay?

and start to build your spiritual life,

your social life, and your financial life simultaneously and create a rhythm. Be careful who you choose to run around with because you're going to become them.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, do you want to be hang around disciplined people, people who are in

control of their faculties or people who are drinking all weekend? Or are we going to hang around with drug drugheads? Are we going to hang around with because you're going to become who you hang around with. So, choose that very carefully. And um I you have got

just such a framework to go win. Um so, we're going to put you into Financial Peace University. I'm going to send you a copy of the total money makeover book. I'm going to put you in uh uh every dollar premium so that you can you can do all these things, but if you'll lay out that budget and then stick to it,

>> 1300 to sister, brother-in-law, okay, gas is this much, food is this much, fun

is this much. I need to pay the PC off.

I need to pay the medical bill off. I need to stack some cash and stack some cash and stack some cash. I need some money to go out with my friends. And you

line item every one of the $4,000 where

it's going to go before you get it in your hand. And then when you get it in your hand, in a sense, emotionally, it's already spent because you already spent it in this app. You've just got to execute.

>> That would help out a lot. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. So you're happening to your money instead of your money happening to you.

Okay? The people that become wealthy are the people that are proactive. They make the money behave rather than wondering where it went. And I know people that make $100, $200,000 a year don't know where their money went.

They're just as broke as you.

The difference is they're not even as self-aware as you are. Michael, is your

sister or brother-in-law, are they disciplined and wise with money in your opinion?

>> Uh, yes. So, they currently were in a very similar situation and own a very nice house. >> Okay. Well, the reason I'm I'm I'm asking that is >> they broke the poverty cycle. >> Yeah. >> And so, don't everything that Dave's giving you from advice to every dollar is great, but don't do this alone. And so, absent of of a wife, a spouse on

this, uh, have your sister work with you on it. Your brother-in-law, he's been very helpful to you. In the first 90 days of working this budget, just get some accountability and somebody with a set of eyes on this and follow our baby steps, follow the plan, and you're going to be fine. Second thing I would challenge you on, I'm not anti-gaming at all.

However, if you look at the data and you look at successful people, I'm going to challenge you to read >> at least half amount of time that you would normally spend gaming, start reading books of people that inspire you, people you want to learn about. If you do that, I think you're going to see tremendous growth.

less games, split it in half, and see what happens. Oo, good one. Read biographies of successful people.

>> That's right. And I just bought a new one on Mark Twain yesterday. >> I'm reading it as well. Cherno. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm almost done with it. Fabulous.

>> The guy I was with at dinner last night said I had to have it. It's fabulous. I ordered it last night. Yeah. Wow. All right. There you go. See, read about famous people.

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Did you know that 2/3 of Americans die

without Without a will, you're inviting the court, the lawyers, and the public into your most personal part of your life, and they're going to be in control of what happens to your kids.

Billionaire industrialist Howard Hughes, known as one of the richest men in the world, died April 1976 without a will.

After Hugh's death, over 600 people came forward claiming to have an interest in his fortune. In the end, a judge decided the 2.5 billion would be split between

22 of Hughes's legal cousins. in 1983,

years later. Don't let the government decide what happens to your state. We want to challenge you to create your will in August. In less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramseyolutions.com/willquiz

or click the link in the show notes. And

if you want to find out an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off when you use the promo code will month.

That's one word. Will month. This is the month to do it. And uh at checkout during the month of August. Very cool.

Randy is in Portland, Oregon. Hey Randy, how are you? >> I'm really good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> You have no idea how much I wanted to hear that from you. Look, I've uh been a fan of yours for many years and uh I really appreciate what you guys do.

>> Thank you. >> Um yeah, thank you. Thank you. Um my

wife and I want to buy a toy and uh specifically a conversion van and uh we want to get your opinion about how to go about it. Um I can give you some details on my financial situation or you can just start asking questions, whatever you'd prefer. >> Um okay. So what how much is in your nest egg?

Uh we have a net worth of about 2.3 million. Um 1.6 of that's in retirement

401ks and Roths and the rest is in uh real estate which is uh our house and we own some land. >> Okay, good. Way to go, man. How much of this did you inherit?

>> Oh, none. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 56. Um and my wife uh stopped aging

at around 40. Um >> you are a smart man. Okay. And what's your household income?

>> So, we have a combined income of about 175 a year. >> Um, >> how much non-retirement money do you have? >> How much nonretirement money? Um, you mean my house in real estate?

>> No, I mean like cash sitting around or an investment that's not in a retirement account. >> Uh, cash sitting around. We only probably have Well, we have about 60K in savings, but that uh includes part of our emergency fund. So, >> Mhm. And how much do you have like a brokerage account or anything like that or just a side some mutual funds that are not in your retirement?

>> Uh I I do but it's not that much. It's probably 20,000.

>> Okay. And how much is the conversion van? >> Well, uh that's the kicker. It's going to be about 110 to 120k. Um but the

caveat to that is you don't have to spend all of that at once. You can buy the van, you know, like a stripped out van and then have it converted. But the two of those put together, you're looking at right around a 120k.

>> Um, yeah.

>> Okay. >> And what do we want it for or need it for? >> We really want to get on the road and uh

travel around in conversion van. We've been uh we've been looking at that lifestyle a lot. We really want to do it and I I Yeah, we want to do it sooner rather than later. >> What's your plan to do it now?

>> Well, uh that was a couple questions I had for you. I was thinking about, I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Would it be unwise to stop retirement savings for about a year, a year and a half max in

order to build up cash for the purchase?

>> Would that do it? >> Um, >> you're not putting 10 in retirement in a year. >> No, it would not do that. But I think between that and uh, you know, some savings money we had, we could at least, you know, buy the van portion of it and then start saving up for the the conversion part of it as well. I'd love to do it all at once, but I really don't see it being financially.

>> How old is your wife? >> Financially, >> for real? >> Um, she she's 60, so she can

>> Okay. Does she have money in a 401k?

>> She does not, but she has it in a Roth.

We have a >> How much is in her? >> Roth. >> She's got about 80k in her Roth.

>> Okay. Cuz she can cash that out with no penalty and no taxes.

>> Yep. That's That was one of my questions as well. So, >> would that be smart? I don't know if that would be smart to do it. That's what I wanted to do. >> I'd rather not. I'd rather not because that's going to grow taxree for the rest of her life and you can't put it back.

>> If you had the van today, would you are you working remotely? Would you just start doing this now and continue to work? >> No. No. I I wouldn't. No.

>> So, what's the So, what's the timeline then if you have to work? >> You know, why would you buy it? Why don't you just buy it all at once and when you're ready to go? >> That's what I'm asking.

>> Well, we'd rather I we really want to start traveling now. Um, we really don't want to wait and you know it's it's it's it's a toy for us and I just you know >> Oh, definitely. Okay. So, number one, you can afford it. >> Okay. Yeah. >> You just don't have the cash.

>> Yeah. >> Correct. >> It's not it's not out of line for your net worth. It's not a shocking purchase.

It's not ridiculous anything like that.

We just you just don't have enough liquid nonretirement to get to it.

>> Okay. Correct. So, you're 56. Are you going to use this after 59 and a half?

>> Absolutely. Can you wait until then?

>> I I could. Yes, I could. We could. Yes.

>> Okay.

>> But you know. >> Okay. Here. Okay. I tell I tell you what I would do. Here's what I would do. Okay. You make 175,000 a year.

>> I'm going to just pay I'm going to spend some money on travel >> and enjoy the travel that I would have done with this van without the van by renting some ones or some RV rental program or whatever it is until I'm 59 and a half. and then I'm gonna take enough out of your retirement and pay cash for it.

>> Okay, that sounds that sounds good. I Yeah, I was I was trying to get options on what to do and I I I I really never thought of that portion of it, the waiting part.

But, uh >> here's an interesting thing, too. Sometimes when people are getting ready to buy a vacation house, a beach house, a lakehouse or whatever, I ask them to rent one for a week or a month

and see if you're really going to use it, >> right? >> And so if you go rent this RV, you may learn it will inform the design of the one you finally purchase. You'll find things about the RV that you hate or the entire experience that you hate and you thought you were going to love.

>> I see. Yeah. Okay. I never really looked at it that way. >> Yeah. And and um I I have known people to rent a beach house and say, "I never want to go back." And they didn't never buy, >> you know, and I've known people to do that with ski houses in the mountains and uh lake houses as well. So, um

because it's it's um you know that per

use, you can rent this cheaper throughout the rest of your life than own it.

>> Correct. That would be correct. Yes.

>> Yeah. And so I'm okay with you just renting it for a while and then deciding

the design based on your learnings.

>> That's where I was going with that line of question until you can go all in. In other words, he has to work and he can't work remote. So he can't go all in. In other words, enough to justify this purchase at this point. So I that's where I wish the itch right now. Scratch the itch. >> But I love the idea of renting and let's go ahead and travel while we can. But he's limited in how he can travel anyway with a full-time job. What's interesting is I mean you could I mean cheaper than

we're talking about you can charter a freaking jet >> cheaper than we're talking about. >> That's true. >> You know and so depending on where you're going but um >> you can do a lot of stuff here. So I'm not suggesting that but I am just saying it's interesting to me what you can get into and you know what you can purchase a jet for versus charter a jet.

You know that informs you >> that's right and over a three-year period he can save a lot more plus the Roth. You know what I mean? So, it gives him a runway. >> Leave her wroth alone.

Yeah, >> that's right. >> Yeah. Let's leave that thing alone. Let it grow.

And then we if we're going to do it out of retirement, let's take it out of his cuz he's probably got some traditional >> You know what?

Conversion van. Dave and Sharon driving over the continental US.

>> Why? You don't like me? >> No, I just think just seeing you two in a conversion van for some reason just made me laugh. >> I know.

Cuz it cuz it cuz you know I would be in hell. >> I know both of you too well. >> Sharon and I will be like, "No, >> no chance you make it through three states." >> No chance. No chance.

When I go through Arkansas When I go through Arkansas and it starts going bloom, I'll be done. >> Oh dear.

>> Your head is twisted. >> It is. >> It's going to get twisted right off your neck if you keep it up. >> I know. I hope I'm back. I hope I make it to the next segment.

Heat.

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Heat.

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Our scripture of the day is Exodus 15:13. If your unfailing in your

unfailing love, you will lead the people you have redeemed. In your strength, you will guide them to your holy dwelling.

Zig Ziggler said, "Lack of direction, not lack of time, is the problem. We all

have 24-hour days." George is in New Jersey. Hi, George. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my family owns a business. It's a hotel. Um, I've been working for them

for 5 years now out of college. I have a degree in entrepreneurship and recently I had a talk with my mom who's a business owner about a raise.

Um, I make a little over 60,000 right now. Um, in New Jersey houses cost a

lot, especially in the county we're in.

and she essentially told me she can't give me the raise to be where I can afford a house, which is understandable, but um

my next question to her was um what is a

time frame for me to inherit the business? Cuz it was always spoken of and I don't believe I'm at that point right now. Maybe in 5 to 6 years I can see myself doing that. I'm 28 years old.

Um, and essentially she said basically

not until she passes away. She's 66, so that could be 20 to 30 years, 25 years.

>> Um, so in other words, I don't know if I

want to stay and put my heart into it or if I should leave and find another job where I can make more than what I'm making.

>> I think you should leave.

>> Okay.

This is not good for you.

You have the ability to make a hundred a year. You're being underpaid. If you're underpaid by 40,000 a year for the next 20 years, the hotel's not free.

>> Definitely.

>> Um >> your mom's not got a situation that that is has enough to feed both families.

They're not making enough to feed both families. So, they're going to have to run it another way. She could pay somebody else 60 to do the job probably.

>> Yes. And also, this is uh she has two preschools, so th those were her main source of income, which it pays for like my family's finances and everything. And then uh it was my dad's business, the hotel, and then she took over. So, this was kind of like their extra money essentially.

>> Yeah. Well, but she doesn't want to she doesn't want to share it right now. And it's hers. That's her obl that's her option.

But she told you that she told you the game and you you know it's a fair response. She's the owner. She gets to decide that. But it's also doesn't work for you.

and I don't want you to be mad at her. I don't think she did anything wrong. But um you know she's not incentivizing you

to stay. Why were you puzzled when Dave

said what he said? Cuz I was under the impression the way you worded the question that that was the way you were leaning is that you should leave. Is that true or false?

>> Um, it's it's true in a sense. Um,

but from a kid, like essentially my mom gives me the responsibility of doing owner stuff. Like if a pipe breaks, I'm there, which I'm currently managing the business. So if it breaks at like 2 in the morning, I'm there. We had bricks fall from the side of the building, I'm there. I'm in charge of getting quotes, and >> she has me deal with the D when they come and stuff like that. And when I

>> No, you're just a manager. That's what a manager does. >> Yeah. What? So, your response is curious to me. So, you know that there's no

future and what Dave said is spot on and that's the way you were leaning. And when I challenge you on it, you just kind of went a little misdirection. So, what is the real emotion of cutting ties with this? Because there's something there you need to identify and and I think you know what it is. What is it?

Um, my grandfather came from Greece and built the business and I don't want to

like give up the family legacy. I kind of feel obligated to stay. >> All right, let me ask a question. If you were to move on and go do your own thing, are you not still or do you forfeit the inheritance?

>> Uh, no, I don't. She said I can always come back to it later on in life.

>> Then I'm with Dave 100%. You're there's no risk. come back when she dies and I own it >> and you and you keep your grandfather's legacy alive. I love your answer, but you there's nothing in this conversation or in the terms that make this a risk.

So, I'm with Dave 100%. Go do your thing, man. Go build something. Go learn how to do something and and and fly, man. Stretch and grow and then uh a mom

may change your mind. We don't we don't know. And B, if it is 30 years from now,

the legacy continues and you've gone out and prepared yourself to really grow

this thing or do something special with it. Yeah. Okay. You, one of the things I've told my kids and I in writing in the trust and in the will the estate documents is do not keep something around just because the old man started it.

I don't want my kids chained to a legacy

of stuff.

I want them chained to a legacy of principles.

And the principles are we run a business that serves people and serves the family simultaneously.

And um but please don't keep something around because the old man I I don't want my kids saying what you just said about your grandpa. I don't think your grandpa wanted you to say that. I don't think he wants you to work for less than you could earn in order to keep open something that he started 50 years ago.

That was not his reason for starting it.

His reason for starting it was to create prosperity for the family and but not to

chain his grandkids to something that

was where they were being underpaid.

That was not his intent.

I'd be shocked if he said that. Wouldn't you? >> Very. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I think you've already I

think your mom has said her piece and you say, "Mom, uh I'm going to go ahead and give you some notice so you can start looking for a new manager because I'm going to start looking for something to where I can afford a house." And um

and I'll you're my mom. I love you. I'll always be there. I'll try to help you any way I can, but I can't do this anymore. It's not working for me. And it doesn't work for you for to have a different arrangement. And I understand that. And so I'm accepting your decision and I'm going to based on that, you know, in about 30 days I'll be gone.

>> Okay? >> And then I want you to put your heart and soul into it while you're still there. Be the best version of George, the best version of you've ever been as a manager. And in the meantime, go get

something where you're making 100K, right?

>> Definitely. >> Yeah. And I think you can, don't you?

>> Definitely. I I mean, this gave me a lot of experience of managing a business and employees and inventory and finances and

everything. So, >> I'm not sure she can replace you for 60.

>> She She can't She doesn't even know how to check somebody in.

>> But, I mean, if she hired somebody to do all that, I'm not sure she could hire that position. >> Yeah. >> That's on call for pipes busting, bricks falling, and checking people in 247

for 60 grand in New Jersey. I'm not sure she can. She might, but I'm not sure she can. So maybe this is her wakeup call.

Is the business profit the hotel profitable?

>> Yes. >> So what's she putting in her pocket?

You're seeing the books, right?

>> Um she really doesn't put too much in

her pocket from it. >> So it's not that profitable.

>> Well, she's mostly taking the money and reinvesting it into the place and redoing hallways and >> Yeah. So it's not that profitable. >> Yeah. by the time she does renovations that are required to keep the thing running, it's not really making a profit.

So, it might not be a good business to own,

>> right? >> You know, I mean, if she has to pay somebody 100 grand instead of 60, she's going to be losing money.

>> So, I'm not sure she's got a great business there that I'm not sure you want this thing >> at the end of the day. So maybe you want something else. Maybe we sell it and we get something else or something. >> Yeah. The clear thing I'm walking away with, George, is you don't want to be there based on the circumstances. You don't need to be there based on this desire to maybe honor your grandfather's legacy. So move on and uh let's see how

the chips fall. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to be fine. And but again, let's give her plenty of notice. Pour yourself into it during the notice. Give her plenty of time to >> redo this. But she doesn't make enough on the hotel to pay you a hundred.

Probably not. >> That's what she's saying. I mean, and I think she I think that's probably right. He saw the book. See, they're putting everything back in the carpet and things run down. It's getting tired. It's got to have some rena. >> And that makes sense. That's logical.

Wow. Harsh.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me and we're here for you. 88 8255225LE8825-55225

is the number to jump in and we would love to coach you up today. We start off with Dan in Grand Rapids. Dan, how can we help you today?

>> Uh my wife and I are preparing to retire. Matter of fact, her last day of work is tomorrow. Mine will be the beginning of February. So 40 years of effort towards this. >> Um >> Dan, how are you Dan? I got to ask you this. This is I mean we we men have to unite cuz we don't do this well. We got Rachel here to help us on this. Before we dive in, what is the plan when she finishes the day tomorrow and she wraps it up and comes home? Do you got something planned?

>> Um you know we don't. It actually came

on pretty quick. We both had this date in February picked and then her department dissolved and they said you can either take a buyout or >> you can transfer to another department.

So this all happened for her in the last three weeks. So, >> okay. But presumably she's excited about this.

>> Oh, absolutely. Yes. >> Dan, listen. I don't want to spend too much time on this. Rachel's here to back me up. This is where you got to step up.

I mean, this is you got to do something special. She comes home, maybe a little surprise. If she hates surprises, plan a little something. At least a nice a little retirement celebration.

40 years, babe. You're wrapping it up. We got to celebrate her is my point. I don't want to.

And I'm glad I said this, Dan, because you might have blown it had I not brought this up. >> [laughter] >> You're very I appreciate that. She works from home, but I will bring stuff home and make it monumental. >> She works from home.

Okay, Rachel, what does he do in that situ? I feel like this is your category. >> Champagne.

>> There it is. >> Right outside the door. >> Neither neither one of us drink, but I'll just boy. We are striking out, man.

We're striking out. >> The grape juice. Sparkling grape juice. Okay. >> No, just do something special. All right. So, we we we've now helped you there. That's the help you didn't know you needed. No, >> no. Yeah, that 40 plus year marriage we got by. Um, [laughter] so we we are we've worked very hard to get where we're at and we're very comfortable with what we're planning for retirement.

We're very comfortable with our financial advisor, but I have one concern that he's got me uh a plan that he's got for me and we are going to put an addition on our house um next spring.

So, we're planning to spend about 100 to 120,000 to do that. Now, my plan was just kind of take that off the top of our 401k and our savings and and make

that do the addition. What he's suggesting, and he gave me, I guess, good reasons, is he's suggesting that I take out um like a heliloc or a home equity loan to do this project. And he

said, "We'll chunk it away pretty quick." But he said there's reasons for that. First of all, I'll be paying a lower interest rate than he can make me.

That's arguable. Uh the second thing he said was it is definitely be a tax write off. And the third thing was the fact that it'll save me 20 plus,000 next year

in taxes because of the tax bracket that he's aligning us with. And it just it's very hard for me to think about going into debt immediately as I retire.

>> Well, yeah, 100%. Because is he what where is he planning on having you guys pay off the HELOC? when he said you can throw a bunch of like a bunch of money at it, is he thinking just a little bit every year so that you don't mess up the taxes and all of it?

>> Yeah, he's saying we'll chunk it away.

And I don't know how relevant chunk it away is if it's a year or five years, but he said we'll just make a monthly payment on it. >> And again, that it'll give us a tax advantage. It'll save us taxes and all this, which all kind of makes sense, but dang, you know, I just got myself 40 years of work to get out of debt and retire and then just thinking about going back into debt just kind of scares me.

has a price tag for you. Uh, you know, you can't put a price on it, but you know, it it's a value of yours that he's not putting into any consideration. And so, as he goes around, but so Michael Yeah. So, no, I would not do this.

I would 100% just cash flow it. And if the cash flow comes out of I don't know if it's the 401k if you guys have money elsewhere. Um but you have the ability to cash flow, right Dan? You guys >> Yeah.

Yeah. We got a set amount that we're going into retirement with that we're comfortable with and it's going to last us long beyond our retirement. Y >> and just thinking of taking that 100 or 120 right off the top of that and doing the addition was my plan until he >> Well, let's let's just put your plan. >> You offered a suggestion.

>> Yeah. I Yeah. I want to put your plan to the test, not his suggestion. We hate his suggestion.

>> Okay. >> So, let's put your plan to the test.

Let's assume that you didn't get this advice at all. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And you just went ahead and pulled the trigger on your plan.

>> How do you feel emotionally about your plan? Any stress?

>> Uh I No, I don't think so. Um it's we

have kind of intentionally we have this 403b that we've been carrying for a long time and I've been very aggressive with it and I took it from 20,000 to it's about 170 right now. And my thought was that is just some play money we've been actually not planning on that we've accumulated that would do this project for us.

times a year. So we want to double our kitchen and our living room 450.

>> How much how much do you guys uh have in retirement total? Uh, just about two million. >> Okay. Golly.

See, and he's going through all these hoops and stuff about this and that and then that. You guys have $2 million. >> Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

And you want to take a hundred,000 of it. And if you go and burn that amount in the middle of the room, like you're not going to have any emotion towards it because it's such a small percentage of your net worth.

snaking and maneuvering through >> where it's going to be not even that much money at the end of the day. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I would >> I agree. I mean Dan, you you answered your own question. I asked it that way just simply for you to hear yourself say

>> his plan gives me a little bit of heartburn >> enough that the Pepsid AC is not working and you called us today.

>> Right. >> It did. Yeah. And I I I think I knew where you were going to take me, but I just kind of wanted to hear it.

>> Yeah. And I appreciate that and we're happy to be here for you. But you, sir, are the ultimate arbiter on this. your body, your heart, your head.

And man, you're just like, man, if I can put this addition on and I'm paying cash for it for my grandkids to be there. >> Yeah. And I would run the numbers, too, because I am curious because Helocks like the the rates go up and down. Like, it really is very dependent upon what's going on.

>> No, don't run the rates at all. I don't want you to be tempted.

Like that versus the taxes that you're going to pay on like like what I'm saying is I think it ends up being closer to a wash than what you realize.

I think that the guy I think I think he's like nitpicking every little thing to say I'm making this number up. I haven't done the calculations, but to save 10 great whatever the thing is and and that's pennies to you guys. So I'm like the peace of mind is worth that so much more. >> Yeah. Just listening to you describe everything he told you versus your plan.

Yours is simple. Boom. We're done.

>> We're done. >> And I guess things you said kind of makes sense. You know that's >> Yeah. Do you have money elsewhere, Dan, where to his point, do you have money sitting in a high yield savings or something where you wouldn't necessarily have to pay taxes if you use that cash?

>> We have about a $40,000 savings account

>> and then 40 401k. I have a lump sum

pension and uh a 403b.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Nope. That's great.

Yeah. No, I would not go borrow on my house and do an addition when I freaking have the money for it. Yeah, >> that's that's the bottom line. Trust your gut, Dan. There's a whole bunch of science on this that trusting the gut is not this mysterious thing. It's actually the brain sending physical signals to the body and it we feel it in our body.

That's a real thing. Has the same validity as the logic. Listen to your heart. Listen to your body. You were right. Thanks for calling. Tell the financial adviser thanks. No thanks.

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, we're going to Baltimore where Julia is waiting. Julia, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm curious, how much should I have my children pay when they break things? Recently, my 10-year-old broke a $400 window and a glass table that is

thousands of dollars to replace.

>> Well, what happened? The 10-year-old is Is this a boy or a girl?

>> Boy. >> It's a boy. [laughter] >> I was like, I can answer that.

>> Take it easy on the boys.

>> What was he doing? Was he just being a boy? And >> yeah, >> like the window he was throwing the baseball.

>> Oh. And we had told him not to do this, >> but he thought it was only that we were telling him that the glass door, like the storm door, was going to break. He didn't realize the little door next to the door, could break, too.

>> Wait a second. >> He was upset about himself about that.

>> Did he throw the ball directly at it, or was he playing with a friend or a sibling and somebody missed it?

>> Uh, it could have been someone missed it cuz Yeah, they usually throw the ball toward the door and they keep the batter right in front of the door. I [laughter] and they know not to >> and that but they've been told not to >> many many many times.

>> Okay. All right. This is great. I'm gathering information here. I haven't [snorts] ruled yet. Uh uh what now the

second the glass table. What happened with that one?

>> Um okay. So the glass table, you know, you could stand up like on your own using your own body strength or you could push off of the table and push

push up. So that's what he did. I I

guess and somebody else was pushing up at the same time >> and it shattered >> and the whole the whole side of the

table like snapped. So we actually are just using a fragment of what used to be the table. >> Is that safe given that it's a glass table?

>> Yes. We turned the the jagged edge

towards the wall and we put tape on it and no one sits over there. Julia, I got to tell you, I am no m,

you know, confuse me with an OSHA inspector, but I'd probably get the glass table out of the living room. Okay. Uh, very easy ruling for me. Um, he felt bad on both instances, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And how long has it been since the these two instances?

>> Uh, the window was over the summer and the wind and the glass table was within the last month or two. Well, I would have I feel I mean, okay, I'm not going to change my ruling, but I think you should have acted a little quicker, but yeah, I think you should sit him down and go, "Hey, uh, I told you a thousand

times not to play baseball in front of the door. You did it. And and by the way, this is why I told you. It's not mom trying to cramp your baseball style.

I'm sure that's your favorite spot. Totally get it. But I knew this was a possibility. It happened." So, um, I know you feel bad, but you know what? you didn't really learn the lesson and uh so that cost us x amount of dollars and then the glass table probably you

didn't warn him not >> go ahead >> you wouldn't have him pay for any of that window talk to him >> would I would 100% have him pay for it I but I would sit down I would have done it like within the first 48 hours uh we got >> I did I told him he needs to pay a hundred of the four >> well then you've already told him so Ken's advice doesn't count anymore you're not going to >> wonder if you need to follow moving forward because he's not going to stop breaking stuff. >> Well, I I'm curious now that I'm a Dave Ramsey subscriber, I'd like to know what [laughter] to do.

>> Well, what the deal is is that is that I think he learns his lesson. So, if you told I missed that somehow that you said you're going to pay $100. I love that.

>> 10 years old, y'all. >> You get a ruling. I'm having my ruling.

My ruling is writing. You told him a thousand times >> and he still did it. I'd make him pay for the full 400. Now on the glass table, >> I wouldn't make him pay the $1,000 because there was no, "Hey, don't the way you described what happened." And I don't even I don't even know if it makes any sense. I'd have a little bit more grace on that, but I'd still have him pay something, but not $1,000. But yeah, he's got to start to respect your stuff.

So sure, I love the idea of making him go do real work, by the way. Not like chores around the house that you pay for. No, he's got to go get a lawn mower out or whatever. I started cutting lawns at 11. Don't anybody freak. Don't at me.

But he needs to do real work for somebody and get some money back. I love this actually because you're not you're not mad at him or yelling at him and you're going, "Look, >> Sparky, there's consequences." And I I love that >> you wouldn't make him pay anything.

>> I think it was not intentional. There was no ill will because I think there's some kids who are >> there was disobedience.

>> Yeah. But it's not intentional. He was not saying I want to go break that. Like there are some kids that I think are destructive and they're doing things on purpose to rile up their parents and then you know what I mean that that there's an ill spirit to it and that correction I would much yes I would have them pay but he >> Julia I don't know why I just I'm like there's a part of me I'm like you're you're you have a boy like Charles already throw I mean and he's five but I'm like I already see things and we do tell him hey don't do don't but if he breaks the >> the thing the big light fixture we have because he's all into this like foam basketball thing and he's trying I don't know.

Part of me if it breaks I'm like which granted he's five. I don't think I would I don't know if I would make him pay for it. >> Again, I don't have any judgment but for those of us tell I'm tell you a real story. The Coleman you have two.

And you haven't gotten there yet as a parent with a boy. I see glimpses of it.

But I kind of like it too. I know this is terrible. >> You're confusing me. You said you were okay with her making him pay $100 on the door. >> No. No. I didn't. if he was being ill, if he was being um destructive on purpose, that there are some kids that are very destructive on purpose to rally up their parents. >> I just want to be clear, you don't think he was being disobedient?

>> I Yes or no? He was disobeying his mom.

>> Um disobedience and intentional

destruction are two different things to me. >> Over punishable >> because his disobedience was not it was

more around a sport that then affected the window. It wasn't the window itself.

I'd love if you were my mom. I got to tell you, >> no consequences here because my heart was good. >> No, he disobeyed his mom. Julia, did he disobey you in your mind?

>> Julia's still pissed. >> You didn't let her You didn't let her finish. >> Did I'm not pissed. I'm as happy as I can be. It's not my kid, not my problem.

I'm just weighing in on it. Julia, did he disobey you?

>> Yes. >> He knew he was disobeying you based on how many times you told him, "Don't stand here and play baseball." Yes or no? >> Yes. [clears throat] >> You're a good mom. You're a good mom.

Did he disobey you at all with the table? Was there any warnings around the table or was that just a pure accident?

>> Yes. I tell them not to push on the table. >> Oh, shoot. All the time. >> Dad gum it. Okay. >> Don't lean on it. Don't put your elbows on it. >> Then he's got to pay. >> I said it's glass. >> He's got to pay that, too. He's got to pay a big portion of that one.

>> He's got to learn his lesson. He might need to he might need to take a helock out to [laughter] pay for that.

>> Get some of the glass guys retirement.

Yeah. [laughter] >> I mean, I'll say this. The kid the kid is in debt to you because he broke your glass table. >> I know. >> And I got to say, I'm going to circle back to this one. I must be getting older. I don't like the shard of glass turned towards the wall with the tape on it. I'm going to bring that one back up.

I feel like I'll sleep better at night.

telling you I get the table out of there. But yeah, he needs >> I do have >> I do have bulk trash scheduled for pickup. So, we are getting it out >> right there. I just care about because this kid's going to run around the corner and >> god forbid he runs into the jagged edge.

>> I know. And I just like that he's like playing, you know? >> I do too. But he also needs a great iPad and he's >> he needs a lesson. Listen, cuz what happens when he breaks >> something that's way more expensive? How many kids do you have, Julia?

>> Three. I have a daughter and then two boys. >> And then the two boys. It's the double boy thing that really gets that, you know, the patience gets lower, maybe.

>> How old is Is it a 10-year-old your oldest? >> He's my youngest. >> Oh. >> And he is the most destructive. My 12-year-old just broke a glass part of picture flames because he threw a ball in the house, even though he knows not to. >> And I did. >> And my daughter who's 16.

>> Go ahead.

My daughter who's 16 is really not destructive at all. >> Well, no, cuz she's a female.

>> They color. That's what little girls do.

She's 16. >> All All little boys brains are on fire.

>> I know. >> Uh, you know, and and that's just part of being a boy. And and by the way, I did all of those things you described except for the glass table.

>> Uh, we were too we we couldn't afford a glass table. >> Didn't have a glass table. But I will say that I think you're a good mom and I think this is a great way to teach a lesson without you know that's enough punishment just to kind of go here's the concept. >> He needs to feel a little something.

>> Yeah, >> an effect of what his actions are. So I get that. I know. I'm just I don't know.

>> Thank you. Thanks for call. You are such

a softy. >> I think maybe honestly cuz I have two girls and you see that and yeah they're they're doing the girl thing and dancing and seeing the High School Musical and then you got little Charles with a little ball. Part of me is like you play with that. And Charles is a cutie. But let Charles let Charles shatter a really important window. >> I know. >> After you've told him not to. We'll see how lovingly you handle that.

[music]

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[music]

All right. Uh, next up we are going to go to a video call and uh, we've got

Valentina who is joining us from New York City. Valentina, good afternoon.

How are you? >> Good afternoon. doing? I'm doing well.

How are you? >> Well, we're doing well. What's going on with you today? How can we help?

>> A lot is going on. Um, so my husband and

I went from a family of two to seven and

under five years. >> How'd that happen? >> Um, well, [laughter] we have a 5-year-old, we have a three-year-old, we have a one-year-old, and a four months old. I'm actually um wrapping up with my maternity leave.

>> Oh my gosh. I must tell you, you look fabulous given how how little [laughter] sleep you must get. I mean, I'm exhausted listening to that.

>> Yes, exactly. Um, but it's unfortunate that we are we're drowning in debt. We we are drowning and >> um it all again escalated within the last 5 years. Um, and I my question is

how can we navigate this um terrible mess um that we're in with all the debt that we have accumulated and obviously we have a large family. So um we have four kids and then my mom lives with us um thankfully um but we we are at a

negative every month and uh we don't know how to how to go about this.

>> Okay, let's run through some numbers real quick. Okay, and then Rachel will dive in and we'll start >> pulling up a plan here for you. Okay.

So, let's start with your combined income.

>> Before taxes is um 240,000 and after

taxes 162.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And give us the debt. Go smallest to largest and let's let's keep the mortgage out of it at first. Okay. Let's just see what that list looks like.

>> Okay. So, I will try my best. So, the smallest debt is uh so we have a credit card debt. We have um personal loan. So, credit card debt altogether is um

90. Actually, that's not the smallest, but um combined between my husband and I. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, um the personal loan is

28,000. >> Okay. >> Uh credit card debt is 98,000.

>> How many how many cards equal that 98?

>> So, my husband has five. Um and I do

have five as well. So, that's a total of 10 credit cards. 10 credit cards.

>> Are they all averageish? Around that that like nine. >> I'm being conservative. I think it's above that. >> I'm just rounding to the nearest. Yes.

But it's that's conservative.

>> Okay. >> Um so credit card I'm telling you, we've been relying on credit cards. Um >> and and my student loan is 132.

>> Okay. >> Okay.

>> Um and I think that's that's it.

>> Okay. >> Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. 401k. Um we borrow borrowed um um so it's a total of

43,000. >> So 43,000 in the 401k loan.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> How much um how much is going out to payments each month? Are you paying minimum payments on everything? >> We're paying minimum payments and everything and it's um I was about 3,000

or so. >> Okay. >> So all of that. >> Are any of the credit cards in default?

>> Uh not yet. >> Gone to collections at all? No. No, current keep them afloat. Everything is current. >> And do I understand that with all of this stuff plus whatever is going on in your life, you guys aren't uh there's no

money, you don't have enough money left over, and that's why you've been using credit cards. >> Exactly. Cuz my husband has been having to cash out all of whatever stocks he

had and all of that. So, anything extra we had, any savings, anything like that has been going into stuff that he had prior to us getting married. um all of that has been going on um towards that.

So what happened is that with maternity leave um my income significantly

decreases. Um I have two full-time jobs

>> and that goes down to basically 25% of

what I make. Um and then we had major repairs to do to the house and things have broken our cars cuz we drive old cars. So, um, a lot of things we started

off well, but then the debt just kept accumulating and trop property taxes went up, uh, twice the first year that we bought the house. Um, so things just kept coming up and it was just a snowball from there. >> How much is your mortgage?

>> So, we have to My husband had a property prior to getting married and, uh, we have our property together after getting married. So, um, our home, um, is about

4,500.

Um, and the other property is about 1,200.

>> Okay. What is the other property? Where is that?

[snorts] >> So, uh, it's close by to where we live, but that's where my husband used to live. It's a double unit, and he was actually It's >> What are y'all doing with it?

>> What are we doing with it? So, thank you for saying that because we are currently trying to sell it. >> Good. >> So that we can pay some of the debt. and I'm scared to death because I feel like that's not going to be enough. And we do have a little bit of income coming from there as well. Okay. >> So, right now that property um is being sold um right now there's 116,000 owed

and we're selling it for 380,000.

>> Wow. Yeah. >> That'll make a huge chunk. Nothing to be afraid of there. >> Yeah. >> It may not it's not going to get it all, but it's >> Right. Right. >> So, let me ask you this. How much are you over uh every month? In other words, bills versus what we got. How how much are we in the red on an average month?

>> On an average month, um, a couple of thousands, I would say. >> Are you on a budget?

>> We try to. We We're not in a consistent budget. >> Yeah. Because you guys are bringing in It's what around 12,000 a month, would you say, hit your account? >> Yes. Yeah. And then the two big things, the debt payments, which is 3,000, and then you have your mortgage, which is four. >> Mhm. >> And so my question is, yeah, where where's the rest of it going?

>> Oh, let me tell you. >> Yeah. >> Food, um, schooling, daycare, insuranceances, utilities, transportation.

Um, we do, um, have a couple of medical

bills, and then we, um, support, it's very minimal, but we do support our families, um, back home. Um, and that

helps them a little bit. But if we add all that up, honestly, we're we're always on the red and we're trying to minimize as much as we can. And >> how much are how much are you paying for the families?

>> Um, it's like a couple hundred. $300 to $400 a month. >> Three to 400. Okay. And how much is the kids school?

>> Um, it's about 1,300 a month.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um,

>> is that daycare?

>> Daycare about 800 a month. Well, what's the 1300? Is that private school?

>> Yes. Um and we are grateful to get um

financial aid. Um but um that's sort of

the balance. >> How old how how old are the children that are in private school?

>> Um five and three.

>> May I may I push on something? And Rachel will kind of walk you through what to do here, but I'll just quickly say I think you have to have a conversation about the two kids five and three being in private school to the tune of 1300 a month. Uh, private school is still going. >> 1300 a year. >> Oh, a year.

>> A year. >> I didn't catch that. >> So, that's significantly less than >> Okay, never mind. I thought it was 1300 a month.

>> So, it's just like a few hundred. I mean, yeah, it's not a ton. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

1300 a month. That's correct. I'm so sorry. [laughter] It's 1300 a month.

So, you're right. >> I don't want I don't want to bog down on this. I want to give it to Rachel here, but I'm going to challenge you that private school will always be there. And they really don't need it that much as much as you need $1,300 a month back in this thing called a budget, which you aren't doing.

>> But we just found $1,300 that you desperately need. Rachel, I'll hand that one to you.

>> Yeah. And you know, there's going to be seasons and there has to be some changes, some significant changes, right? because if there's not, you guys will keep in the cycle of where you've been. And so, I think that is the hard reality is that you want to be able to do everything, but you mathematically can't, right?

You guys keep running into that. I mean, you can't keep doing everything. And so, you're either going to get behind on bills, you're going to get behind on a mortgage, you're going to get behind on things.

scared you're going to get behind on the wrong the wrong items. And so, I think you guys are going to have to have a really really hard conversation. And it's not forever. Not forever. But for the next two to three years, our lifestyle has to change. And you guys really are at the point where even $400 $500 makes a significant difference. And so to be able to say, okay, what are the

things that if we that are not necessity? Food, shelter, utilities, transportation, that's it. We have to be paying for daycare. There's no other option.

School, there's another option to your point. That doesn't have to be private school. Like what are the things that we don't have to have to literally survive? Yeah.

>> And I'm curious what that number is. And that's gonna hurt. That's gonna hurt when you see that number. And to think, oh my gosh, if we eliminate these things that we want to do that are good things, >> two things, >> but we can't afford it.

>> Just for the sake of time, two things I want to give her. I want to give her a session with one of our coaches and free every dollar for a year. Let's get those things in play and you can dig out of this.

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, [music] let's go to Antoine in Austin, Texas. Antoine, how can we help today?

>> Um, so I just wanted to question like if it's worth getting a loan for school.

So, this is like the scenario that I'm going to go ahead and tell you right now. So, my parents want me to go to this local school that's a lot cheaper, the financial aid, they pay me around a,000 to go to the school because of the

financial aid. And then the school that I want to go to, it's a ministry school.

And um it's been what I want to do and I feel like that I'm called to do and it's ministry itself. And that school I do have to pay around 2,000 a semester.

>> Okay. Well, 2,000 a semester is not bad.

I mean, that's over like five months.

You could go and make that in a month doing a side hustle.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You could cash cash flow it.

>> And they were they were talking to me and they're just like really like bribing me with basically a good amount of stuff just to stay with that school cuz they think that that school is so good. And I just I don't really see the hype in it and it doesn't teach what I'm wanting to actually learn.

>> Sure. They think that it's because I guess in a sense they're different believers as I am and they don't think that getting a ministry degree is uh like a real thing like they don't think that it's like a legit thing to do as a

career, >> right? Okay. So, yeah, it is a legit thing for sure. Um I do think it is

going usually it is on the lower end of

a salary perspective. So, they may be looking and thinking, Antoine, go get a business degree and maybe go into ministry, you know, part-time and volunteer and go create a, you know, a life financially that's bigger. And then I hear you saying, "No, this is kind of this is what I want to do. I'd rather go down this route." Um, which again is not a bad route. I would not um I would I

would caution you to uh not just say, "Okay, well, if I'm going to do this ministry and it's $2,000 a semester, I'm going to have to borrow money and all the things." But if you cash flow it through and get the degree you want um the ministry degree.

I mean I guess is this specific school is it like a very specific type of

ministry or or um >> it's a the it's like theology um Christian ministries. Okay. It's a in a sense it's a lot better for me to uh do cuz it's one of the cheapest schools out there because it's online. So I'd be at the comfort of my own home. Gotcha.

>> Well, this local school that I'm currently going to I'm currently going to it right now and >> Okay. >> It's just I'm not learning what I would actually learn in ministry itself because there's not a ministry class that they have here. >> Sure. Are you So, you're wanting to be a pastor like you're wanting to >> get into a position. Yeah. That you have to have a Yeah. a, you know, >> I think this is so clearcut. This is very simple. Do you feel called to this or not? Yes or no?

>> Yes. And if you don't do this, do you think that you will sense

uh a holy, and I'm I'm using that word on purpose, a holy dise?

>> Uh in a sense, I don't believe so. Like I feel like it's like you're when you're called to something like that that you don't you don't burn out. >> That's what I'm getting at. I'm saying if you don't you misunderstood me. If you don't do this, if you don't answer the call, do you believe that you'll suffer distress?

>> Meaning, >> I've lost you all together. Let me let me put it another way. >> Do you feel called? You said yes. And I think that if you don't do this that your soul won't be whole. That's what I think. And I also >> Yeah, >> you're with me now. And I also think >> Yeah, I'm with you now. >> There you go. And I also think that you'll resent your parents >> if you don't do this. and if you bow to their wishes and their pressure. Yeah.

And I don't have a problem with it because it's a very >> um uh reasonable situation. Now, we do

get calls from people that want to go be missionaries and they want to go get a $60,000 a year degree from a private

Christian college. And you're like, that makes absolutely no sense. But $2,000 a

semester, you're like, yeah, you again, you could do that waiting tables in a month. >> Yeah. So you could you don't even have to go into debt for it. >> No, not at all. And you shouldn't or or ask them for help, especially given this situation.

>> Yeah. Well, they said they well they weren't going to help me at all if I go to this school. It kind of sucks cuz I mean >> but I mean at the same time like they in a sense they think the main reason as well is that they think that I'm not going to like stick through it. And I've like in a sense when it comes to church like I I'm trying to get like more involved and more involved.

And that's what I've been doing. like I've been going to school and just trying to be like as most involved as as I possibly can.

wrong with several things. They think like when I when I went to go get like baptized, they thought, okay, uh, no, like I don't think you should do it like right then and there. Like this is barely a new thing. And in a sense, they made me wait until I was 18, which wasn't that long. It took about like half a year.

>> Yeah, they just they're just Yeah, they're cautious. They're cautious. and maybe in their background spiritually they got burned a few places, you know what I mean? And so they're just like, "Whoa, just, you know, so that's that's fine. >> Honor your parents, but you don't have to do what they say." Now, there's a there's a there's a tension there for some people, but >> How old are you, Antoine?

>> I'm 18. >> 18. Okay. All right. So, >> and how long's the school? Sorry, Ken. Yeah. How long's the school? >> Uh, it's it's four years. It's four years. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would I would make a plan to cash flow it. talk to some and

again this is not a school or a degree that's going to put you in a really narrow place >> no >> theologically right >> no you can use it get you a anywhere

>> okay perfect I think that's another thing I would have a red flag because there are some of these >> you know where it's a very specific niche within Christianity even and you can't really use it a lot of places so I think the broad sense is helpful um I

think it's great yeah >> yeah I I I want to I want to finish this point because I do hear hear your heart and your parents are very influential as they should be and you're 18 years of age and parents do things like this all

the time. I'm not immune to it. Rachel's not immune to it where a parent's fear

turns into what they think is practical advice and it's not practical advice.

It's them projecting their fear. I think that's what's going on. And so Antoine, you got to honor them that I think they want the best for you. And I just think they're human beings who have fear.

And I just wanted to make that point because I think it's important when you go through this and we're giving you advice to go, "Yeah, go do this. Go cash flow it. Don't worry about what mom and dad say on this because you believe you're called to this." And then this is just part of growing up. So it's tough.

>> So, tough stuff there. Uh, let's go to Trent in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Trent, how can we help?

>> Hello. My wife and I are both 35 years old, and the only outstanding debt we have is our mortgage, which is going to be paid off next year. >> Nice. After we pay off our mortgage, we are thinking to build up a 529 with a couple hundred thousand in it for our daughter uh and or a career emergency.

So, the idea is that my wife and I's career field feels a bit unstable right now. So, if we ever get laid off, we want to be able to use that 529 to send me or my wife back to school to build new skills. And uh if we never use it, then we want it to go to our daughter when she starts college. Is this a viable plan?

And if so, what risk do you see? Uh, I would say it's a viable plan for your for your daughter. We we espouse that.

>> Uh, so my wife is in tech. She's like a data analyst and I would be an untenured professor.

>> Um, yeah, yours is a little bit more sketchy than hers. I think, you know, she can upskill in the tech space without going back to school. So, I'm just going to push back against the thought that this 529 is either for our daughter or for my wife or for me if we need to get more skills down the line.

And I think in your particular careers to pivot, I don't think another degree is the answer. I really don't. Could be, but I'll give you a quick uh litmus test on that. Is a degree the only way to do what you want to do or is it the best way to do what you want to do?

If that's the case, then you could use it. But don't just make that assumption, especially for her in the technology space where upskilling now is not going to require any kind of degree. There's going to be boot camps. There's going to be classes, courses.

you're going to see more and more big companies over the next few years. Yeah.

>> Start to train the people that they want. You as a professor, >> who knows? Yeah. Now, I would say I would say for 529s, it's an investment.

So, you're wanting to to sit there for at least 5 years, and you guys are probably going to want to go back sooner than that. So, I would just cash flow your wives. >> Yeah. >> Set your daughter up for the 529. And then if you guys needed it for you guys, I would just cash flow it.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsay Show coming to you from the [music] Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to be with you today and we want to coach you up. 8 8255225.

Anuanette is joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas. Anette, how can we help?

>> Well, um I'm going to be 62 next month

and uh I don't have anything saved for retirement and uh I want to become a firsttime homeowner and I don't know if that's stupid and ridiculous or if it's

possible.

>> Well, I don't think it's stupid or ridiculous. Let's focus on the possible part. Give us a picture of your financial situation given that you have zero retirement or very little retirement. >> I have no retirement and I have no money for a down payment. So I would have to go USDA or set by something with a zero

down and so that would make my payments even higher. >> No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Do you have any debt?

>> Yes, I have some but not an unmanageable and I'm getting it paid off really quick. >> Okay. How much debt do you have?

Uh, I think Credit Karma said I had about uh $8,000 or something like that.

I just paid off uh $600 worth of two of

my accounts in the last month. So, >> is the 8,000 credit cards or personal loans? What is it?

>> Uh, let's see. I paid off the personal loan and so uh and one of them is my car

and uh the rest of them are credit cards. I've got I think four credit cards. >> How much is in your car do you owe on your car?

Oh gosh, I can't remember. Um, I'm really bad with money. I mean, numbers and so I just know that I just got it two months ago and I had to trade in my other car because it was a 2019. It was convertible and the it didn't convert anymore and uh mechanically it was down, but everything else on it was falling apart.

So, I had to get rid of it and I was upside down on it because last year it was worth uh $17,000 and then this year it was worth $5,000. And so I was real upside down on it. And so uh I owe more on the my I had to get a minivan because I'm so popular. I can't have a little convertible.

So I owe more on my minivan than really I should.

>> Okay. And you probably And did you roll over the negative equity on the um on

the convertible?

>> Yes. >> Into the minivan. >> Okay. So how much do you owe on the minivan?

>> I don't know.

You don't know, Antina. You signed a loan. You don't You don't know how much the total is.

>> That's right. >> All right. All right. >> All right. And she had to go to Credit Karma on the other thing. So, one of our problems, Antuina, is you don't have a firm grasp of your numbers.

>> Yeah. She already said she's bad with them, but it's not >> I can't remember numbers.

>> Oh, but it's not about that. It's about Do you have a file over in your house somewhere where we got the car information?

Yes, but I'm a truck driver, so my house is uh like 2,000 miles away.

>> Why do you need a minivan if you're driving a truck all the time?

>> I go home sometimes >> and you're popular. So, you and the ladies are hopping in the minivan. Okay.

All right. I'm trying to catch up here.

>> Okay. >> Cuz I I'm trying to figure out honestly if we can sell the minivan. >> What year is the minivan? What year?

>> Well, I had to go for a uh let's see here. a uh 2023

I think.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. We >> and with the negative I mean this could be 30 $40,000. I mean so okay so

Antuinette >> I want to paint you a picture. Yesterday on the show we had a truck driver Christopher. He paid off all of his debt

and he has hundred I mean tens of

thousands of dollars. I mean he's just absolutely killing it and he's a truck driver. He was telling us he had a Subaru brand new, ended up selling it.

Had some, you know, had to take out a small loan because it had gone down and he was upside down a little bit. Uh bought an $8,000 Lexus. The Lexus gets

hit. He gets a check from the insurance company for $9,000. He ends up buying a $2,000 car, takes the rest of that >> and throws it at the debt. Right? So, there's a way to do this. And even someone in your industry, we literally just talked to him. He did his debtree scream yesterday. Here's the thing, internet. Okay, so the excuse that I am

bad with numbers can't be an excuse anymore. Okay, you are an adult. You are smart. You are capable. And we have to get this under control. So, the first thing I need you to do when we hang up is I need you to call the dealership uh

or the credit wherever you got the loan for the van. Uh, I want you to pull up the Credit Karma again and know exactly exactly which credit cards are out there and know exactly what you owe on them and companies. I want you to write a list down and then take your phone and take a picture of it so you have it documented. Even if you're out and about, you have it documented.

And then the plan is going to be home ownership is going to be down the line, okay, for you. Um, but I but I think the goal here is to get yourself out of debt. And Antuinette, I would you're more than likely going to have to sell the minivan, okay?

be out of this debt so that you can start saving for retirement. I don't want you driving, you know, have to be a truck driver for the rest of your life. I want you to be able to have a great retirement. And that's not going to be possible with the habits that you've been in.

Not only just financially actually, but the way you're going about it and your attitude about it.

>> Are you an independent contractor? In other words, work for yourself or do you or do you work for a company?

>> I'm a company driver. I'm not kidding about having a bad memory. And I update

all of my bills every other month. I have a piece of paper that tells me I keep it on a book. I look at every one of them. I see how much interest that they're charging me. I see how much my balance is. And then I uh t I tally up

my total debt. I also look at Credit Karma a few times a week. I just have a bad memory. And if had I known that you're going to be asking me these questions, I would have had this stuff.

>> And you called a money show, my friend.

You know what I mean? And so we we're trying to help. We really are. And so my

>> my encouragement to you is that when

there when there is something a big big missing piece and the car loan is that for me right now that I need to I need you to know what it is because I may need you to make a really quick decision to sell it because do you know how much the payment is each month?

>> Yes, the payment is uh $995.

>> Okay. Almost $1,000. How much money do you get paid once a month?

per month, what are you making?

>> Probably about 7500.

>> Okay. >> And let me do a quick followup, Antinet, because I didn't hear you. That's my fault. Did you say you're independent?

And the reason I'm asking this, did you say you're independent? >> Actually works for a company. >> Okay. Do they have a 401k or some type of retirement program that you can be contributing to?

>> Yes. But I don't because what what's the point of that at my age?

>> Because you have nothing. So, we can run

these numbers, but I mean for the baby steps, as we teach them, is $1,000 in savings just for basic emergencies. Baby step two is to pay off your debt, smallest to largest. That's why Rachel leaned in there. We want to get the debt out of your life because we just learned that that could save us 900 bucks a month.

That could be going that be going towards >> retirement and and so, >> but why would I want a $2,000 beater card just going to break down all the time? >> Well, a $2,000 beer card doesn't always break down all the time. You can ask Christopher yesterday. He literally had a picture of his and it runs great.

It's >> and I'm talking to a person who's super popular. Your own words. Have the ladies pick you up when you're not in the truck. >> Car.

>> I hear your heart in it. And I want a Lamborghini when I'm going there.

>> I don't need to argue. >> I want to dunk a basketball. Uh but some

things are not going to happen cuz I'm 5'8 and can't jump. You know, if I want

to retire with dignity, I've got to start saving money. and I can't save money if I'm in debt. >> Hey, Antoine, I want you to keep listening to the Ramsay Show for real. I want you to listen every single day for the next 6 months. Make that be your goal. Just as you're driving, listen to this show because I want this knowledge to soak in and this way of thinking and the way of life when it comes to money.

[music]

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>> [music] >> I got to say I uh even though she got a little upset at us, I love Antonet. I love her spirit. And [music] I think you know what I what I want to touch on real quick, Rachel, is >> uh I got her frustration. I felt it. And

that's what it's like when you wake up like she did one day. 61, no retirement,

>> uh, no house, and it feels as though she's at the base of a mountain that's impossible to climb. However, we know, and as you pointed out in talking to a truck driver just recently on this show, Yeah. it is possible, but the frustration is real, and I I guess the thing is is that it's like, hey, um, this is going to be hard. There's going to be some tradeoffs.

>> Yes. >> And they're going to be painful. >> Yeah. It's it's about choices.

We have to make choices. And you know, you talk, we talked to people that are on baby steps four, five, and six. They've gotten out of debt in their emergency fund, and they had to make a choice to work extra.

money to pay off debt. They had to make choices, really hard choices, but the outcome of what they were doing was worth it. And so, I think that is it.

there has to be this level of reality of to say the outcome that I want and and

in her case whether it's a home whether it's retirement these sacrifices that I have to make in order to get what I want are worth it and you know can I think there are some people in life they're not worth it for them you know and and you know they live their life the way they want to live their life but um but it is about choices we have to make choices everyone does um you know we don't have an infinite amount of get to do whatever we want all the time >> and and that is that's difficult So true.

Hey folks, in a few weeks we're going to be doing our annual special giving edition of the Ramsay Show.

It's really fun. We ask you all and we're asking you now to share stories with us about how you have given generously or maybe you've been the benefactor of somebody really giving generously. H and whether that's maybe a

surprise tip or maybe you bought Thanksgiving dinner for somebody. Uh this is just about celebrating generosity and we get so many great stories every year. Uh whether again you've been on the receiving end of an unbelievable gift or you've been blessed by giving others, that's what we're looking for and we'd like to hear those stories so we could feature them on the show. Go to ramseyolutions.comask

ramseyolutions.comask

and put giving in the subject line and

share your story. We do this every year at Christmas time and it's really really special. Uh and uh that's coming up on December 18th. So those of you who are regular listeners or love the special type shows, mark your calendar uh because we're going to celebrate living like no one else.

He can give like no one else. Speaking of giving, Rachel, this is where Santa Dave I think he's out of control and I may have to have a meeting with him. Um [laughter] the Black Friday deals which we're already offering. Do you realize this now?

>> How great they are.

>> And we're on the train, people. >> And they're on. We're on the train. And I'm not happy about it. All right. But but it is what it is. You should be happy. You know why? $12 for bestselling

hard covers.

>> $12 question for humans. $6.99 for audio

books and ebooks. $15 for our assessments and more.

>> I mean I I mean Dave, you're giving the farm away. >> Just deals on deals on deals. >> I'm not going to win that battle, folks. But you win. Ramseysolutions.com/store.

Ramseysolutions.com/store.

That's where you get all the great deals. All right, let's go to Greenville, South Carolina. Nicole is waiting. Nicole, how can we help?

>> Yes. Um, I am very nervous about a

change that's coming to us and how to

raise my children through this. Um my

husband is just selling a partial of his

business um a little less than 50%. And

he's getting a large sum of money just

before the end of the year, which leads

to another question of how do we sc do we have to scramble to figure out exactly where to place this before the

end of the year comes?

>> Okay. What what is a substantial amount of money? What does that mean?

>> Um, 6 million.

>> Okay. >> Hello. >> It's great. >> Nicole, you said you sound like someone gave you a bill for 6 million.

[laughter] Where's >> Well, I know cuz I'm I'm kind of I don't want to act like I got the lottery for 6 million. >> No, no, but my goodness. I hope I hope

that maybe you get yourself a light blue box, you know, with some jewelry.

>> Come on, Nicole. Let's go.

>> Get a little Get a little >> little something [laughter] from Nicole. Nicole, >> I wanted to get that out of the way. All right, that's the best advice you're going to hear on this call. Nicole, wait. But I I'm seriously Hey, congratulations. You and your husband.

This is a pretty cool deal and I just don't want to fly by that.

>> Yes. >> Now, you got the perfect person today to No, I'm serious. She's very, very gracious and very humble, but I think you are really perfect to talk about.

She doesn't want this to change their life, the kids' life, and all this. I think you have tremendous insight on on a couple things. So, we'll get to that, but first talk about the end of the year scramble. I don't think that's >> because you guys you guys will have to pay taxes on it >> and so >> Yes.

And I understand, you know, that's going to happen and I know we want to give part of that as well. >> Sure.

plans to go back within the next couple of weeks, you know, once he gets, I guess, more of the contract in hand.

It's like, you know, obviously he's like, well, I'm not going to get, you know, that that investor pro or he's like, well, you know,

>> I guess they're like, you know, here's your free service, but I'm very I'm not going to tell you everything you need to know, right? >> Who's saying that?

>> Um, well, someone that my husband had found to get advice from a business tax

pro on advice like this, I guess.

>> Okay. Okay. I'm so confused. It wasn't necessarily one of like Dave or Dave Ramsey. No, it doesn't sound like it. I've spoken Yeah.

>> Well, and I'm I mean they I have spoken to one of those before in the past. Yes.

Okay. But then this all went down and I'm like, well, I can't really make these changes right now and getting my husband involved because he's having to deal with this mess and >> I mean, not mess, but like he's have, you know, he's got a lot of this on his shoulders and >> Okay. So, what I would do, I wouldn't do anything. I wouldn't do anything.

I think there's a lot of height and emotion. There's a lot of fog. It's a lot of decision- making. Don't do anything.

Okay? Just know in the back of your mind you're going to have to pay taxes on this. So, just that's the only I want you to think about. So, Nicole, that's the only thing I want you to think about.

Okay?

Okay? So, nothing big has to change. I

would >> interview and find a great tax pro in

your corner to make sure that everything is buttoned up. Y >> um I would do that and we have some wonderful people, you know, that um are affiliated with RAM. If you go to Ramseyolutions.com, you can, you know, interview one of them or find your own.

I don't care. But nothing sketchy, nothing weird. Don't tell, I mean, whatever that language was. I was weird. >> So that's different than a investment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's talk through that. What does that look like? How do we want to do that?

What are some things? Because you probably don't want to give, you know, 10% onto one thing. It' probably be good to get a couple of things and just to say, well, you know, as a family, how can we give out of this? Um, I want you to look at, do you guys have a mortgage or any debt?

Um we we have like 175 on our house.

Okay. And then really all the um all the

other debt is like vehicles with the business. We we purchased the business property, you know, about seven years ago. I mean, but >> I would I would be sure. So I would write a check, pay everything off.

And then I do want you to remember that money magnifies who you are. And so the way you guys have dealt with money before this six million, it's going to be amplified. And do you like how you guys have handled money? You've dabbled in the debt stuff, all of it.

And my fear is that the six million kind of creates this, oh gosh, well, we could get into this real estate thing. We could we could do this and it's going to >> be taken up really quick if you guys aren't careful.

>> We're going to get completely out of debt.

have fun with it [music] you Guys, jewelry earark some jewelry. Upgrade the car. Do some stuff that yeah, you guys enjoy. But remember, you give it, you save it, you spend it regardless of the amount. That's the three things you want to do.

[music]

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[music]

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>> Today's question comes from Kelsey in Texas. We are debtree except for our mortgage and my husband's income is not enough to help get our home paid off. He is a musician and he dabbles in real estate. The m musician world that he loves does not bring in any substantial

income and I earn $35,000 a year. This

year he estimates that he will earn a total of $32,000 a year. How should I communicate with him about the lack of income? I understand this is his passion, his life, and a part of who he is, but we are really struggling.

>> Okay, Kelsey, uh this is hard. So, I

want to acknowledge that you're his wife, and you're going to come to him,

and you're rightfully going to say, "Hey, um 85K,

uh which I bring home, plus you're 32, which you're estimating is just not enough for where we could be, where we should be, where we need to be." And let's lay that out. Let's make a numbers case. Say, "Hey, we need more money and

uh here's how I've come up with this number. I'm not pulling it from the sky, and I'm making this up to answer the question, but if you determined, >> yeah, >> that we needed an additional 75,000 to knock out debt, catch up on investments, all these things, >> then we present that number." And this is all of this is non-emotional. This is just, hey, I'm digging in the numbers. I know you love music, and I don't want you to give it up. This is how we lead.

Rachel do not want you to give up music.

However, >> dabbling in real estate.

>> Can we go from dabbling to allin and

keep the music going at night? Keep the music. Find a gig here and there. Don't give up on the music. But the music is

not the focus. It is an outlet. It's creative. Keeps his soul >> alive. It's a good thing.

>> Yeah. >> Uh but for this season, we got to go all in on something. And since we're dabbling in real estate, if one goes from dabbling to really focusing, you

can win. And I would have them go talk to my friends uh at the Befinian Company. Brian Befini is the number one uh real estate trainer in the world, and I do everything Brian tells you to do, and you'll crush it. So, this is a tough conversation, but we have to lead with real numbers, vision. Mhm.

>> You don't have to give up your dream and your creative outlet, but I need your help and we have got to lock arms >> and go at this. Now, that's the male perspective. >> Yeah. >> What would you change?

>> What would you add to the messaging there? >> So, I think if I'm in the situation as

the wife, I'm [snorts] looking to say, "Okay, we have these goals out there that ultimately lead to a life that I'm longing for. I want the house paid off.

I don't want to have to worry about that. I want to know that we're going to be taken care of in retirement. You know, there are these um benchmarks that

I would feel safe and good to know that we are at least on track of hitting. And the fact that we're nowhere near it makes me fearful and I don't like that.

And so that's me. But us as a team, I

want us heading towards the benchmarks together. >> And if I feel like I have to be dragging you the whole way, that's not a fun marriage. You know what I mean? Like that's not fun. And so there's something along the lines of starting with what is

going on inside of you know inside of you Kelsey. Um and then also the fact

the team aspect of marriage more and more Ken I don't know if it's cuz we've just hosted this show and we get so many relation relationship calls but there is a game changer in the health of your marriage and the peace of your marriage when you are a team on these kind of things and money is one of the big one of the big components right they say in-laws raising kids sex religion money

like it is and when you are aligned on these things again you're going to be different in them I'm a spender you're a saver you may be more chill not as go We're all going to still be ourselves in it, but we at least are heading in the same direction. When you're fighting against those directions constantly, that's exhausting, you know, and so I think the team aspect more and more for me for marriages, I think, is as big.

So, let alone just the um just the career path. It's more I want us to be on the same page of where we're going financially and how do we get there? And that may mean sacrifices on one one side or the other, but at least we're heading in that direction. >> That's right. And you don't have to give up the fun creative dream or outlet. You just keep it where it's supposed to be for this time. >> Yes. Yes. >> Which this is just a side thing that we mess around only when we have time.

That's the key on those deals. We're not giving it up. All right. Let's go to Armando in Los Angeles. Armando, how can we help today? >> Hi, thank you for having me on the call.

Uh, I just wanted to say I love your guys' show. Um, so I want to preface this with saying this is a conversation me and my mom have been having for a bit now and we're kind of trying to decide and we figured, you know, you guys are probably the best people to ask. So, I'm trying to decide basically between whether staying at my full-time job uh where I'm a manager at a gym. I make about $4,000 a month after tax with

bonuses um or going to my passion which

is starting my window cleaning business.

um that's currently producing about $3,000 a month and I only do that on the weekends. >> And so >> I'm at a point where I personally feel like I could start generating more during the if I had more than a weekend to, you know, during the week to produce more. >> Well, let me jump in. Let's jump in right there.

Uh are you already getting calls and leads? In other words, people going, "Hey, Armando, I'd love for you to come clean my windows." and you're having to push them out uh a few weekends just because of time.

>> Yeah, I've had that a few times already.

Um we're actually and that's without even we're just getting the website and everything set up this month. I've only had the business for about 10 months.

>> Where are you getting your leads?

>> A lot of them are referrals and door >> too. Bro, first of all, let me just say

you will not lose. I love that your answer is referrals. That means you're doing a good job for people and doortodoor that means you hustle and you're not afraid to know. Armando, that right there is the success formula for

entrepreneurs. So I love that. Do you have any personal debt?

>> I have no debt. I am debtree.

>> All right. And then we call savings in a

business retained earnings in your business account. And I'm assuming you have one. Yes or no? >> I do not.

So, you're just taking the money you're making from the window cleaning and running it through your personal finances. >> I just put it in a savings account.

>> Oh, okay. Yeah. And just in a big account currently saved up. Um because I paid off a bunch of debt recently. So, I now have 8,500 saved up.

>> Okay. So, you have 8,500 now. Is that in the savings account that's just the window cleaning business or is that a combination savings?

>> Combination savings. spending money to to kind of go and play around with. Uh I always keep in my checkings about a thousand. >> That's great. But here's the deal. So, you know, we teach you know, we teach a a three to six month emergency fund after we pay off debt. Do you have a what's your So, your three to six months

expenses is what?

>> What's three months? >> Only Yeah, I only three months really is

only about I believe it's 4,000. My

expenses right now are only 1,200 a month. Uh, I am very blessed, very blessed to not have to pay rent.

>> So, I want to move quickly. Uh, but I want to get Rachel in real quick. What would you think is a good amount on the emergency fund? Just personally.

>> Yeah. I mean, where you're at right now?

I mean, maybe >> 5,000. >> Five. Yeah, I was going to say not that much. It may change if your living situation changes, but for now, that >> So, Armando, I'm going to recommend that you get a separate savings account for the window cleaning business.

And for this example, I'm going to call it window cleaning. Armando's window cleaning. Okay.

pretty conservative. I'd like to see 6 to 12 months of your salary saved in

window cleaning bank account. All right.

So that's just me. And the reason is is because when you leave that full-time job, I don't want you thinking about the next six to 12 months of of a payday.

>> You got low low cost of living now anyway. But that's my advice.

>> And when you get that number saved up, whatever that number is, and let's just say it's uh 25,000

>> and you've got a pipeline stacked up,

then I would say see you later to my full-time job. I'd like to see you have 6 to 12 months expenses in the window cleaning company saved and

then make the move. Rachel, I >> congrats though, Ar. That's awesome.

>> Thoughts on that real quick? Final word.

I think that's safe. >> I think it's awesome and I think you'll get there faster than what you expect and you're going to kill it in the window cleaning [music] world. >> Great job. >> Thanks for the call.

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[music]

Rachel, the allnew Every Dollar is here.

And folks, it is truly way more than just our world-class budgeting app. I've been talking about this on the show. I I I got a meeting with the team and I said, "Show me all the just take me in the thing. Give me give me a tour." And it's amazing.

It's literally like >> a digital version of us on the show for those who call in. The first 15 minutes of answering the questions that the team provides you in this app, they're going to help you find thousands of dollars immediately in savings.

it. You can start every dollar for free by going to the App Store, Google Play.

Uh tons of advanced features, not just budgeting. Now, that's amazing. But the fact that you've got a digital coach, mentor, accountability partner, whatever you want to call it. All those facets are in there. Fantastic. So, you got to go check it out and give it a whirl.

It's free and I'm going to tell you, you're going to love it. Donna is up next in West Virginia. Donna, how can we help? >> Hi. Uh, Ken and Rachel. Um, I I love all

the personalities, but Ken, I'm really glad you're there today. I love the way you spin a tail. You really make me chuckle and I love your your story from

a few weeks ago about the welfare chicken. I grew up on a farm and can relate to [laughter] that. >> Thank you. Yes. Thank you. The welfare

chicken didn't get in trouble for telling them to sell the chicken. >> I think I was on there with you during this. >> I did not get in trouble and I had forgotten about that, Donna. So, thank you. That's really fun. Thank you.

You're a sweet lady. By the way, I have to ask, where in West Virginia are you?

>> Oh, geez. Uh, Romney.

>> Do you know that town? >> I I think I've heard of it. Do you know Point Pleasant by any chance?

>> Oh, that's way far away. We're We're in the panhandle between Winchester, Virginia, and Cumberland, Maryland.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I was born in that little teeny town of Point Pleasant, West Virginia. >> Point Pleasant, I know where it is. I've been there. >> Well, I got to tell you, not many people across the state. >> Yeah, that's right. across the state. But >> all right, Donna. Uh my sister from another mister here in West Virginia.

How can we help today?

>> Well, I'm I'm 69 and my husband is almost 71 and um we started our careers

in the 70s and at that time people were saying, "Oh, you're so lucky. You have a pension. You'll have social security.

You don't have to worry about retirement." So, we didn't. uh and we're

doing fine now with our pension and our our uh social security, but we haven't saved a lot of money. And we had to put my mother in a nursing home um last

year, an extended care nursing home, and it really scared me and shocked me at the cost per month for that stay. And

what my question is today, and I've I've been having friends tell me, you know, you need to sign your house over to your kids uh uh to save it from being taken

and and all of this. And I know Dave

says that you shouldn't do that. I have heard him I haven't heard him talk a lot about that, but I have heard him say that. And I was just wondering what the pros and cons are to that. And if there

if there's no pros, what can we do? Or

is there something we can do to save our house? >> Well, let's let's go back a step. What are we what are we a fear? What are we afraid that's going to happen that would even uh allow us to consider that advice? What are you afraid's going to happen? >> Oh, it for the uh signing your house over. >> Yeah. >> Oh, well, there's I guess a lot of things. I mean, I've been listening to the Sto Stewart shoot uh show long

enough that uh I know if you have kids,

if anything happens to your kids, then then that can if they're in an accident or uh anything like that, uh >> Yeah. But you're talking about But you're talking about your house.

>> I'm talking about my house. Yes.

>> My house that my husband and I own.

>> Sure. And you're worried you're going to lose it to who or why?

>> Oh, medic Medicare. I mean, if you can't pay, if you go into a nursing home, Medicaid is gonna look at possessions.

>> They're going to be looking at your Now, we're caught up. Sorry, we we weren't 100% sure. >> And the reason we do we say that is because a little bit it feels like you're hiding assets when you just sign it over. >> I wonder. I mean, I don't >> I know. So, yeah, not a great not a great thing because you're basically lying to the government that you don't have an asset when you really do. So, um

Okay. Do you have long-term care insurance, Donna? We do, but I got it uh

it's been probably before I realized the cost. My father-in-law went into just an assistant living and his was about 3500

$4,000 a month. So, when we got our long-term care, it was very expensive anyway because I have some health issues, so it was high. And ours is only 3,000 a month. Okay.

>> And then my mom's came up and it was 14,500 a month. And I'm like I just I

was just in shock that it was that expensive. Well, um, okay. So, a couple of things to think about that we don't know yet, cuz how old are you guys?

>> Uh, I'm 69, my husband's 71.

>> So, a lot of different things. Um, number one, you don't know if you guys are going to need a nursing home.

Anyways, uh, number two, if you did get to a point of a nursing home, um, you know, there are things you can do. You can sell the house and use that to fund if you need to. Um you there's also what

what are you guys doing with your pension and all of that? What what do you have coming in >> uh per month? You mean what we have? We have uh it's like $9,942.

>> Okay. >> So I mean it's it's decent. And we did just start two years ago. We have started putting some away. Uh we bought

I bought us and uh my husband a sp I'm

still working a little bit. Okay. And I made enough money to be able to max out both a Roth for me and a spousal Roth

for my husband. I did that when we got we got one of your uh pros.

>> Good. Great. >> And um he he said to get one we got him in April and he said, "Oh, hurry up and get a Roth before April 15th."

That's right. So we did that and then when we finally sat down with him, we had enough money saved to do another one for 2025. Max it out.

>> So what do you have?

started. >> What do you guys have total?

>> We have uh 32,000

in uh Roth right now and then we were

playing around just during the years and we have about 50 that our uh financial

advisor is rolling over about 50,000 that he's rolling over into IAS now that we're still in with the companies that we retired from. So just below 100,000 and then what is your house worth?

about 400,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, it would be one of these things if you guys did get into that situation, whether it's the insurance,

um some savings, you know, whatever you can put together, um to get into a

nursing home. And I'll be honest on it, this sounds it sounds horrible, but there is a stat that once you enter into a nursing home for on average, it's

there's not that long of a stay usually.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not either. So, it is kind of one of the last steps that family members will take if they're not able to care for um you

know, their family member. And and so that would be kind of that that last step, if you will. So, if I was in your shoes, I may ask about upping the long-term care. I'm just curious what other options are out there for you guys. Um, I would be looking at that because that's going to be very helpful type of insurance for you all if the time comes that you need in-house care,

nursing home, all of it. And you guys also are sitting on a great asset and you know what I mean? If something were to happen to either you or your husband and you did get to a point that you guys didn't have the money to cash flow it and yet there was a nursing home that you knew we he they needed to be in, you know, him or yourself, there's always the possibility of selling the house, you know, and figuring out what to do there. So, >> um, Don, I'm going to give you something.

Rachel made a great point. I looked it up. Uh, the average length of stay in a nursing home is 485 days. Now, of course, this varies, but averages do play out.

So, you know, it's horrible to, but that's the reality and we're talking about that. So, you know, between the pension and everything. I mean, Rachel, you make a very good point. It's not like you got to fund this crazy amount for five years, >> you know. So, >> um I think you guys are doing everything you can. What How much longer do you think you're going to work?

>> Um, as long as I can. I love it.

>> Okay. >> Do you work full-time? No, no, I do occasionally. Um, I'm a teacher and uh

sometimes I'll take a long-term sub job and sometimes right now I'm just doing dayto-day and uh >> I'll bet the kids love when Donna shows up to be the sub. You seem like a really nice sub. >> I hope so. [laughter] I hope they do. They always say they do, but you know. >> Yeah. Well, that's good. And what about your husband? Is he officially done working or still working? >> Yes. No, he's officially done. He's a golfer. He's he's fallen into the golf.

I love it. >> It's good for him.

>> Well, at least there's a little bit of a foreshadowing of watching your mom and how expensive it has been for or your mom or your dad um that you guys can start planning that [music] if that time were to come, how would we be able to cash flow that? So, thanks for the call, Donna. >> Uh do we know if people can search welfare chickens uh on Spotify or YouTube and find that rant? Do we know?

We don't know. >> I'm sure you can try. But >> they can't. Oh, you all missed it. It was really great. Donna said so.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thanks for being with us. We're here for you. 888255225

is the phone number. Let's go to Caitlyn who joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Caitlyn, how can we help?

>> Hi, good afternoon. Um, I'm a recent

college graduate from West Virginia University and I will start paying

student loan debt come January and I want to know what is the best and effective way to go about that.

>> How much student loans do you have?

>> They will be around $26,000.

>> And is it multiple loans?

Yes. >> Okay. So, what's the smallest amount?

>> Uh, the smallest amount I believe is about $5,000.

>> Okay. All right. So, what we Is that the only debt you have?

>> Yes, that is the only debt I have.

>> All right. Rachel, walk her through the baby steps. >> Are you working?

>> Yes, ma'am. I work a um full-time job.

>> Great. How much do you make a month? How much do you bring in?

Um about a month, maybe maybe $15 to

$1,800 a month.

>> A month. Okay. What are you doing?

>> Um I work at a um boutique.

>> A boutique. Okay. >> What kind of boutique?

>> Um a women's boutique. Just a locally owned. >> Like a spa? >> No, like a clothing store.

>> Women's clothing. >> Oh, >> sorry. A little slow on that one. >> Didn't know. [laughter] I was like, well, there's lots of different boutiques. There's like boutique hotels, >> boutique spas. Sorry.

>> Fair. >> None of this matters. Why do you Why I have a question on your income?

>> Yeah, >> that is for a college grad. That is way below what your expectations were, I'm guessing. Yes or no?

>> Yes. So, I've had this job for about two years. I worked this job throughout college, and that is the job I'm still currently at. >> Okay. What did you get your degree in?

uh business and marketing.

>> So, what do you want to do? And I'm not going to put you under pressure here on a show live, but give me a general idea.

It doesn't have to be a company and a title, but describe the work that you went to school for that you would love to have if I could just wave my pencil in the air and give it to you.

>> Well, the work I would be interested in is going into law school.

>> Okay. So, we went for business and marketing and we're like, nah, this is not what I want to do, but I'm just going to finish it. And then somewhere along the way, we discovered I want to be a lawyer in a specific type of lawyer.

>> Um, corporate law, sir.

>> Corporate law. Okay. So, a tiein to the business and marketing.

>> Yes. >> Okay. What's law school going to cost you?

>> Law school is probably going to cost me around probably $100,000.

>> And where are you going?

I have not yet made my decision. Um, but I'll be taking the LSAT soon.

>> Okay, great. I want to make a quick commercial and I'll hand it to Rachel. And but you got to get your two things.

Number one, you need to get your income up, >> right? >> Yeah. You should be making you should be making double. >> I don't even care what you're doing. Yeah. >> At this point, you need a target of $40 to $50,000. Let's just put it out there.

I don't want to limit you to that, but you you just need to get out there and find something because more cash the better. Now, uh, and Rachel will tell you what to do with that cash, but I just want to make a point on the ELSAT.

Um, years ago, I interviewed a a law school expert on this, and this is a fact, by the way. There are certain schools, you're going to have to do your homework on this, but you can figure it out easily, that based on your LSAT score, Rachel, if you get a high enough LSAT score, they will give you a full ride. And the reason is these aren't the prolific ones. Let me just go ahead and tell you, this isn't Harvard.

It's not the big time schools. These are the schools who nobody wants to go to their law school. So therefore, they're trying to get people into their law school because they want lawyers out there and they will give full rides.

And let me just make my my pitch on this. Nobody cares where you got your law degree from. And so the the tradeoff is Kayn, you have to pay for the LSAT.

And if you need to take the LSAT five times, take it. If we're aiming for and

we feel like the tutors will tell you, >> we can get you to this score which gets you a free ride. So that's my commercial. >> Yeah. It's worth investing, you know, five, six grand or it would be like an like honestly when you think about it.

>> Totally. >> With tutors and everything, >> I don't know what the current LSA cost is $100,000 degree for free. So >> yeah. So that's what you need more money for.

>> Yes. >> Plus we got to pay off these loans. So Rachel, tell her how we pay off these loans. >> And that needs to be your way to law school.

Kaitlin, I really want you to Yeah. >> see that because you're going to be $126,000 in debt if you don't. So, we want to really work hard to avoid all those student loans. >> Um, yeah.

So, it's getting your income up, Caitlyn. So, I mean, I really hate to say it, but I I mean, I would probably be looking for another job. I think it was a great thing to get you through college, but now that you're a college grad, you know, you made that investment for a reason.

my expenses. I would live on nothing and I would make it a goal to get this paid off in 18 months, 16 months, 14 months,

you know, and so I really think you can if you um do you have rent? Are you living at home? What's your living status? >> Um I live at home with my family.

>> Okay. So no rent. So, I would take full advantage and make a really really aggressive goal of getting this paid off and then at the same time be looking at the elsat stuff and make that also a part-time job. So, I don't know if it's a I don't know right now if it's a full-time job that you go and find, you know, a receptionist. I mean, anything like just go and answer phones. I mean, do something.

>> Or if you do the boutique during the day and you wait tables at night and you're doing a two two day, you know, a two job a day kind of thing to double this income. But this income needs to be doubled, Caitlyn. Yeah. >> You're a college grad and I think that you have you have things to offer and >> and again, it's it's kind of back to this college degree conversation that >> you got your degree for a reason to go and create a career and and so taking that knowledge and going and doing that and upping this income is going to be is going to be your number one goal.

>> Because Caitlyn, here's the deal. you are young enough uh and this debt is small enough that you can pay this off in a year, but you got to make more income to where you're putting two grand a month away.

$26,000 loan. Knock that out

>> and get it out of the way before the interest starts hurting you. Okay? uh because I know people that are that have your amount of loan debt and they're paying it for 15, 20 years because they're never catching up because the interest payment. >> So, you want to get this out of your life. And I just I'm telling you, if you trust me and you do your research, you can go to law school for free or for a very reduced amount that you can cash flow. And most people don't know that.

And please do that because you're going to just be so much more at peace. So, there's your homework assignment. Pretty straightforward, but you got to hustle.

Yep. >> So, [clears throat] thanks for the call. You know, Rachel, that is um I love when we get that call. And I and I'll be honest, I've not interviewed people in other lanes, but I I would almost bet you there's other professional lanes

>> like that that where certain schools are going, you know, like med schools are going, we want to get people in here.

And the sticker price on Vanderbilt, which is in the shadow of our campus here. Y >> versus a small school.

>> Totally. Yes. And it's an it's an ego play to go to say someone's like, "Hey, where's where are you going to law school?" And it's a >> Yeah. Harvard law that maybe Yeah. Or you're going to one that no one's ever heard of. It take I mean, you got to have some humility to it, but you're doing it in a wise way. You know what I mean? And so there's something >> but it just rarely comes up.

>> Your clients aren't going to go, "Hey, uh, I've heard rumors that you got your law degree from Greenbryer State." >> Vet school, law school, med school. I bet [music] George came when he had took his dogs into the vet, he didn't say, "Let me see your degree." before he said, "Save my dogs." That was all last week. So >> that poor guy, >> that poor guy and his dogs,

it's like a soap opera around here, folks. We don't have time to cover it.

>> We'll have him cover it, George, if he hosts [music] here in the next week.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Buying or selling your home is a big deal, folks. And with all the clickbait headlines and all of the uh social media

uh traps and all of the little hacks and all the things, it can be confusing

uh and a lot of conflicting data. And so we're here, as always, to give you the real real uh and tell you about the latest trends. So, let's just take a quick snapshot. Median home prices have continued to hold steady around 424,000.

In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate to get a better price. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5.49% 49% in October,

giving some buyers breathing room. But rates are unpredictable. The best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when they drop. So, if you'd like to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market.

That's rammissysolutions.com.

Or if you're on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. Nick is up in Detroit, Michigan. Nick, how can we help?

>> Hey, hello guys. Thanks. Grateful for the time, by the way. Appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Uh, yeah. So, I own a business. I've owned it about 10 years now. I've grown it from, you know, grossing maybe like 80k a year to now we're about 1.5

million a year. >> Congrats. What kind of business?

>> Oh, appreciate. Well, we uh are moratory transport. So, we we move the deceased.

>> Oh, is that right? >> Yeah. I'm sure you guys get that a lot. >> Well, no. And that and and so I just think this is interesting. So, 10 seconds on this is that we're not talking about the hearse. We're talking about to the to the funeral home from the hospital or from people's home. >> Precisely. Yeah. Actually, it's it's it's everything. The hear is included. So, >> Oh, you do that as well? >> Do the funeral gets rented.

>> Yep. >> Got it. Okay. Fantastic. So, >> storage, all of it. >> Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Okay, great. So, keep going. >> Yeah. So, the issue is like growth is awesome. It went well. I was always on top of it, but it maybe was a little too quick. And I know uh Dave would hate me for it. Maybe all you guys would, but I have loans, a lot of them. [laughter] And so it's about 580,000.

And so the main question is my goal is to try to pay that off as quick as possible. But people that I, you know, admire and they're very intelligent people don't think that I have the funds like readily available for emergencies to do that and that I shouldn't do that.

>> Well, just give us your picture. So So we know you have $580,000 in loans just for the business. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And what is the monthly payment to service that debt? So, it's about 18 uh thousand >> 18,000 a month. Okay. And then uh give me a picture. Uh well, you are you

planning you expect to do 1.5 million this year 2025?

>> I am. Yep. We were doing 2.2. So, this we got kind of hit kind of hard.

It came down, [clears throat] but yeah, that's definitely sticking around. >> Okay. So, 1.5 top line, that's your gross. >> Yep.

>> Okay. What kind of retained earnings do you have? Do you have any savings in the business? >> Yeah.

So yeah, some some of the stats that are probably helpful is that like it varies from about maybe like one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 11 one 10 thou you know,000 to about 150,000 a month and the profits can range from negative 10,000 to about positive 30,000.

a snapshot from this year in like pretty average. >> How many months? Okay, but how many out of the 12 months were you in the negative? >> Um once at 2,000 and once negative 5,000. >> Okay. And your best >> and that includes paying it off. >> Gotcha. And your best month is 30,000 profit. Actual net profit.

>> And how much are you bringing home?

>> I pay myself like 40,000. I'm just trying to build something.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Yeah. I don't spend money in my personal life or do much, but like a really cool way though, you know.

>> Sure. Yeah. Um, how much um how many

people do you have working for you?

>> I got 25 employees.

>> Okay. because I'm just trying to think where you can be lean on

um the expenses side because that's the way you're going to be getting obviously >> what's the debt vehicles >> uh there's about maybe 200 vehicles I

had to take 200 out for taxes that weren't paid so that was a big hit so I'm just paying back t payroll taxes >> all right did we learn our lesson on that >> we did I hired a new CPA not that it's you know I should be I should be looking at it too it's my fault >> right right that's okay not judging I just want to make sure it >> we've now adjusted for that and we're never going to have that surprise again. So that's that's good news. >> Of course. >> Yep.

>> Well, I think your friends are wrong that you if they're saying they shouldn't pay it off. U but >> yeah, I only have 50k in reserve and so their concern was like if you have a couple bad months in a row then you'd be done. And it's not an unwarranted concern but you know five years to two years it just seems really appealing >> to keep >> to be debtree like instead of five years. I think you can do it.

But again, it's the same advice we give other people, Rachel. We don't tell them to just go I mean, it's a babystep process, right? We say smallest to largest when we're talking to personal >> uh debt. And so, in your case, >> it's all it's you're just chipping away at it.

And so, you got to come up with a business budget, too, that goes, "All right, yeah, >> I'm going to have some variable numbers here.

And Rachel, start to correct me when I get wrong here, but you're looking every month at the books. And when when the books are cleared that month, we know, okay, this month >> we cleared $5,000 net. That's after

paying you and everybody else.

>> Okay. Well, then that's going to change how much we're going to put towards the debt. But then we got a big month of 30,000. We can put more. And so it's just being really disciplined and looking each month to do what you can >> and as you [clears throat] grow, knock this thing out. Yeah. Is it seasonal, Nick at all, for you? The ups and downs?

>> Not really. No, it's pretty pretty steady. Maybe winter's a little busier, but not enough to be like, you know, seasonal work. >> What can I ask a really dumb question?

[laughter] >> Sure. >> I understand it's about people dying, but a aside from that, what causes it to drop from 2 whatever

million you said, forgive me for forgetting, to 1.5?

In my in my case, it was a client.

>> Uhhuh. A client that was >> I don't know how to say it. >> Yeah. Because we, you know, we work for, you know, all the funeral homes or, you know, we were the counties, the medical examiners, colleges, of life.

>> So, a client dropped off.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Big one. >> So, are you in the in the process of

replacing them?

>> I mean, that's that's the goal. I mean, I'm sure every business has its challenges, but in this industry, it's just super slow to change. If you have a director of a funeral home, they use a service for 30 years, >> right? >> Unless there's a reason to change. >> Yeah. You got >> to kind of be there and just be ready.

>> Yeah. It's so related. >> Otherwise, I get creative other ways.

>> Okay. All right. I was just curious about that. So, I mean, this is a Rachel thoughts on that. I mean, this is just a uh >> And I was just trying to run some quick.

>> Do you think like 50,000 in the bank as far as like maybe like that just being the reserve amount? Is that comfortable?

You would think with 50,000 payroll a month? I would probably do 3 months reserves. >> I would do three months. >> 150,000.

I mean, so for me to save that much, that might be a year or two, right? So, right. So, I would probably lower that first. >> Yeah.

Because I always think too if you guys because if you're being aggressive on the debt and you have two bad months and you only have one left, you could pause the aggression on the debt, stockpile some money, pause that for about three months to pile up some money, and then press play back on getting out of debt. But yeah, I mean I would have a goal to try to do all of this and gosh I mean if you stayed focused um >> I can be focused >> what yeah I mean give yourself two years I don't know what you can do very >> you know your business >> what would you if you have a bang up year like just phenomenal growth or just a great year $2 million year >> yeah at this point any growth is majorly profit you know so majority profit ass it's I'm at that line right >> all right so after you get the three months of retained earnings in there to be able to cover payroll, every nickel of the operation.

>> H [clears throat] towards debt? Yeah. I mean, >> I don't think two years is out of the question. I think that that could be done. I mean, if if I'm paying 18,000 right now in that debt and I have some months where I'm making 10 or 20. Yeah, of course I can, you know, be doing 30.

>> I think you're going to feel Listen, that's the point. You're going to love not having any debt on this business.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine just for a second not having $18,000 a month

going out to service that debt?

>> Yeah, that that's why I feel like, you know, sometimes I'm like, "Oh man, my business is not doing well." But I'm like, "No, it's it's healthy. It just needs to >> come through. It just needs to make it through this this moment." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I would make I would probably make a a two-year goal and just say, you know what, if and especially if you lowered what you have, that's going to throw a big chunk at it, which is really great.

and get the IRS debt paid off first, the 200 that you had the IRS and then everything else. [music] Yeah. Start chipping away at it. But I think if you stay focused and diligent, Nick, honestly, um I think you're going to see a lot of progress and and throw in that extra at it. Um >> yeah, I think it's great. You know,

business is business. I don't know. We need I guess we need Nick's business.

>> Everybody's dying. Let's do it.

>> It's horrible. I'm trying not to make any jokes. It's a very serious topic, but it's just like I wanted to know what was affected his business. He's like, "Well, it's a little busier in the winter." I'm like, "Oh, boy.

>> [music]

>> All right. Uh, [music] it's time for a uh fun fun call here with Stephen who is

a baby steps millionaire. He's in Minnesota. Let's bring him on here.

Stephen, how are you today?

>> I'm just fine and dandy. I'll bet you are, sir. As a baby steps millionaire, you don't have a whole lot of gripes, do you?

>> Uh, not too much. >> All right. >> I could I could gripe and whine, but nobody's going to listen to me anyway.

>> I You know what, Stephen? I appreciate that cuz for a second I thought you were going to give me a few and I thought, "Oh, I opened up a can of worms here." But hey, we are so excited to talk to you. Um, tell us how old you are, Stephen.

>> I'm 72. >> 72. Okay. And what is your net worth?

Uh net worth is around 4.7 million.

>> 4.7 million.

>> What is that made up of?

>> Uh multiple things. Land. Uh I'm a

farmer. Retired farmer. I call it unemployed, but >> um >> no retired. We'll say retired.

I've invested in some uh apartment

complexes, uh IRA,

um

>> stocks. >> Yeah, that's awesome. Um what was the

from an income perspective, Stephen, what was the lowest you've ever made in your life?

>> The lowest I've ever made probably lost about 20 or $30,000.

>> Oh, a negative. Okay, that's good. A negative >> that that's one of the problems with farming is it doesn't always it's not always profitable. >> Sure. >> You can have a real bad year. Yeah. Um >> what was the best year you ever had?

>> I The best year I've ever had

probably between two two50,000.

>> Great. Well done.

>> Again, it it [clears throat] all depends on crop yields and market prices. And

>> what was your uh what was your specialty? Was it crops?

>> It uh raised corn and soybeans and I also raised hogs later on. Uh started

out with a cow herd.

Um >> nice. >> Very nice. You did a little bit of everything. All right. Now, question we love to ask our baby step billionaires uh is did you inherit any of the 4.7 million? >> Yes, I did. I inherited probably about 800,000 in land from my dad when he

passed away. >> Okay. >> Which was about I'm thinking about 18

years ago. >> Okay. All right. >> But you made 4 million on your own.

>> It's very impressive.

>> Yeah. Between me and my wife. Yeah.

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As a family.

>> Can't forget her. >> That's awesome. >> Now, was she active was she active in the business, the farming business?

>> She was actually a registered nurse. Oh, okay. Gotcha. >> And put it bluntly, she probably

worked to support my farming habit.

[laughter] >> That's a good lady. That's awesome. Okay. Do you have a degree?

>> Yes, I do. I have a degree in animal science. >> Nice. And what was your uh GPA?

>> 2.004.

>> Hey, that's my kind of guy right there.

I'm not even sure I sniffed 2.0, 0.

Rachel in college was probably in that range. >> Yes. >> Well, my my college years, I had an elbow problem that went from the table to my mouth. [laughter] >> It uh got into I've I've always claimed

that I've only been drunk once in my life. It just lasted five and a half years. [laughter] >> You you you like the beer, did you, Stephen?

>> A little too much. [laughter] >> Well, that he enjoyed his college. did.

And you know what? He got through 2.0.

Uh, and now he's lived to tell about it.

I appreciate the honesty, Stephen.

Honesty is good. >> You're a hero all across America, I'm sure. Fantastic stuff.

>> All right. >> The other thing is it did take me 17 and a half years to get that degree.

>> That's right. Oh, really?

>> Taking classes here and there, all over the place, and getting married and having kids. Just stuck stuck it out.

>> You know, I've never heard of the 17 and 12 year plan. Um, that's really fun.

>> Not not much of a plan.

>> No, not at all. But you've done well.

Okay. So, um, do you drive uh brand new

cars?

>> No, not very often. I did buy my wife uh

the last car I bought uh I actually bought her a new one. >> Good. What kind of car?

>> Uh, it's a Kia Sarrento.

>> Oh, great. The Kia. And did you pay cash? >> Yes. Okay. We've been paying cash for our vehicles for a long time.

Um, one of one of the things that we have done is uh my dad was very good about teaching me some different things about finance uh that line up with the

financial peace program. Mhm.

>> Um, one of the things that he taught me was is that if you borrow money, it's easy to borrow money, but it's a bugger to pay it back. >> Well said.

>> And, uh, but even in in spite of that,

he also said, "Don't use your own money, use somebody else's." >> Well, that doesn't make sense.

[laughter] >> No, it doesn't. I was going to say not

sure that aligns with the show, but you just wanted to tell us what he said anyway, which is great. All right, so is there any advice you would give to uh to your 25-year-old self or 25 year olds that are uh uh maybe drinking a little too hard in college right now? What and and they want to win financially? What would you tell them?

>> Just keep working. Um, my wife and I both it it's uh I mean you guys always

preach the best way to to get out of debt and get wealth is to work hard and

increase your income. Even though my wife is uh a registered nurse, I mean she worked multiple jobs. She's got her own little sewing business >> where she she designs uh digitizes

designs which she actually sells over the net internet all over the world. And

then she uh sews them out for people too. And uh she played organ at the church. Um she actually taught college

>> my gosh. >> Two different colleges uh for taught nursing programs at two different colleges for a while. >> Wow. well-rounded lady.

>> Yeah, I kind of outkicked my coverage with her. >> Sounds How long have you guys been married?

>> Well, you'd have to ask her. She's listening in, but uh she'll tell you 51, but I say 50 good years.

>> Okay. [laughter] Okay. I feel like

>> a couple days here, couple days there where it wasn't so good. My It was usually my fault. >> Now, okay. And now I'm catching up. I'm going to use that one myself, Stephen, if you don't mind. That's good.

She would say, "I like that." >> 50 though. Congratulations. 51. That's amazing. That's amazing. >> That's awesome. Actually, we've been uh we were high school sweethearts. So, I've been hanging around with that woman for almost 55 years, 56 years. Bless

her, man. >> Okay. What marriage advice do you have, Stephen? Being married 50 years, what would you say to someone that's newly wed? >> Love this.

>> Maintain communication.

>> Keep talking to each other.

Um that that's the important thing. And I mean that's uh one of the biggest things in our finances too is that we're always talking to each other.

Um just constantly letting each other know where we're at, what we need, uh what we want. Can we do this? Can we do not do that? And uh

>> and be willing to to be honest and and sometimes say no, we can't do that.

>> Yep. Yep. And be on the same page with it. Yep. >> Love that. >> That's great. Stephen, >> Stephen, thank you so much uh for sharing your Baby Steps Millionaire story. Uh it's always fun, Rachel, to uh

walk through the journey of these folks, you know, whether they be 41, 51, 61, 71. Yeah. Uh whether they, you know, >> he had some uh good oneliners in there, Ken, and so did you. May I quote you, Ken? >> Yes. when we asked what kind of car his wife >> he bought his wife uh >> a Kia Sarrena and you said oh the Kia

[laughter] >> they're a family >> you know I hear good things about the Kia I've never owned one >> it literally sounds like a family I don't know why it just made me chuckle [laughter] made Kelly laugh too the Kia >> well you know it's a relatively new car brand in the US I don't know much about it uh quick poll in the audience thumbs

up on the Kia or thumbs Thumbs down in the audience.

>> Oh, we're getting mixed reviews. We're getting >> No, no, no mix. It's like 90% thumbs

down. >> Stephen, you may not have picked a great car for the wife. I don't know. >> I got to go get Consumer Reports. This will be >> the Hondas or the >> We know Hondas and Toyotas have lasted a long time. >> Oh, the Kia. >> Oh, the Kia.

Our

scripture of the day is Jeremia. Miah 9:23. This is what the Lord says. Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches.

[music] Our quote today from Thomas Soul. We all enter the world knowing nothing. But by the time we're teenagers, we know it all. Sometimes it's decades later before we know enough to realize how little we know.

>> Oo, that's good. >> Boy, I'm living that right now. >> I agree with that. >> I got a 16, 17, and 20, and you'd think I was a village idiot.

>> Like I'm surprised dad knows how to get to work and get back home.

>> Is it raining? Is dad out there standing in the middle of the rain? >> Dad, come on. Dad, >> they just think you are just stupid. Is that it? >> It's coming. It's coming. You got three >> cuz they they think we are just >> right now. You're you're heroes. >> I meant Yeah. Yeah. >> You are the sun, the moon, the stars.

>> Yes. Yes. And then it turns.

>> Middle school it starts to turn and then full-blown teenager you you've lost your mind. >> You just think [laughter] It's a miracle. Mom can dress herself.

>> It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's It's just part of it. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Keeps you humble. >> And then you realize, oh, they do know something, right? >> And then you realize in your own life, wow, I may not know as much as I thought. Maybe the world is bigger than what I was even thinking.

You know, >> that's right. >> And you start thinking, >> yeah. >> Oh, man. Come to work every day and give advice on the radio when you feel like an idiot all the time at home.

Anyway, it's part of it, folks. Welcome to Parenting Teenagers. >> Whatever. Your kids love you. We had dinner. We had lunch there. Love with >> love an idiot. >> I know. We had lunch with um some of our team and Ty. We're in Chicago. Yes. He like loves you. It's great.

>> Yeah. But you know, they still think you're stupid. [laughter] Uh Gary is up next in Austin, Texas. Gary, how can we help? >> Hey, Ken Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Um my wife and I, we've been

married. We got our we had our 20 year anniversary back in January and we realized >> Congratulations. >> Oh, thank you. We should be further along financially than we are. I think we're doing okay, but we could be doing way better. And um basically my debt

right now, we have $12,000 we owe on one car and we owe $7,000 on our three

teenagers orthodontic bill.

>> Oh. >> Oh yeah. >> Boy, I've got post-traumatic on that, dude. That's that's brutal.

>> Yeah. So, but other than that, we have no other debt. Um, I do have a

beneficiary IRA that I got back in 2010 when my grandpa passed away. Okay.

>> It had 24,000 at the time. I've taken the minimum distribution out every year and now it's about 70 grand. Of course, every day with the market right now, it's kind of fluctuating. >> Sure.

>> Um, >> but my my question and plus my teenagers, we have two cars at home and we're looking to potentially get a third car because they want to go out and work, but it's hard because I have four kids.

>> How old are they? >> So, we want to have a little maybe $5 to $8,000 in cash to buy a car. So, basically, my question is, if I took out say 20 or $25,000 from that beneficiary

IRA, I know it'd have tax implications, but would it be worth it to pay off my orthodontist and my car? So, we have two cars owned outright in cash and then we could potentially buy a third car in cash and then that way I can move on to the baby steps from there.

>> No, I really wouldn't. I don't think I would unplug that IRA. I mean, I just feel like that that's invested. I think there's um a part of that that um yeah,

you would pay taxes on it for sure, but there's a part of me that wonders, okay, what how much money do you guys make?

uh about influx rates of overtime, but somewhere around 180 a year.

>> 180 a year.

>> Okay. >> Um yeah, why don't we live on 90

and do all of this?

>> Yeah. I mean, if I heard >> live on 90 for a year, >> 7,000 in dental, 12,000 in a car. Yes.

>> Correct. >> That's it. That's the only debt.

>> Yes.

And who's whose car is the 12,000 on?

>> It's my wife. Well, it's both cars are ours. Our teenagers primarily use the one car in my life and I use the other. I have a work vehicle that I can take that I use most of my day for work, but when I'm I can't use it when I'm not working.

>> And Gary, just cash flow this. I mean, part of the baby steps is a level of changing sacrifice. You know, if you cash out this IRA, nothing in your life has to change. you're just plugging in money and fixing your problems and you're unplugging something that actually is going to be able to go up in value so quickly um over time.

because how much is in the IRA?

>> Uh that that particular one is 70,000 >> 70. Yeah. I don't think I would do it. I would I would lower I would lower lifestyle, Gary. I would live I would have you guys be on a really really tight budget for one year and get all this knocked out.

So, we've been doing the um Every Dollar app since our anniversary last January and um we have been making progress at it. I guess my thoughts are I really want to get to be because I'm I'm 43 years old and I do have two Roth or two Roth IAS now, but they're just not as much. I started when I was 18 and I'm just disappointed that it's only worth mine's only worth 10000,000 and my wife's is like 60,000.

>> So basically my thought is if I just took this out, deal with the tax and

then I could start really hitting that 15% um >> you know amount toward my retirement and kind of loaning it earlier.

>> I understand your reasoning. I understand your reasoning, but I'm with Rachel on this and I would tell you to channel the thought, the emotion you just gave us, which is gosh, I I only have 160 and I wish I had more. And you

don't want to touch that because that's that's that's working for you. And so I

would I would take that angst, that frustration, and I'd figure out how to make more money. I'd figure out how to sell some stuff. I'd figure out a way for the two high schoolers to get to their jobs in other ways or whatever, whatever. or whatever. Um, and I would

knock these debts out. 19,000 on your income, >> I know >> is very, very doable. You know, we're talking about, and you don't have to answer this on the air, but this is the homework assignment. What would need to change or what would you all need to do?

I'm talking about you and your wife collectively as a team. What you need to do to be able to put $2,000 a month

towards the 19,000?

And I I just think if you frame it that way, you might be surprised about how doable that is. And now we're doing this in less than a year.

[clears throat] >> Okay. >> And now you're building the emergency fund. >> Do you guys have savings at all anywhere else?

>> Um, a little. I mean, I save we have a

school account. Our kids are have been homeschooled and so we have it's actually more expensive than it's not crazy expensive but it's you know $3,000 a semester probably we pay for them so we have a money for that that's really allocated for that. >> Sure. Sure.

But anything else in savings? >> Just $1,000. We we recently brought it down to thousand to help pay pay down the car. >> Okay.

Gotcha. Gotcha. >> Here's the crazy thing real quick. Let's just run through this super fast.

The $12,000 car.

>> Um, probably mid20s.

>> All right. >> The high 20s. >> Since we're being uncomfortable and we're telling you to be uncomfortable, Rachel's right. Let me tell you what I would do. Now, I'm extreme on this. Rachel, you tell me if you think this is too extreme on this one, but I'd sell the car and knock that debt out. What's that? What's that monthly payment?

>> The minimum is like just under 400.

>> All right. So, we just So, here's what happens. If it's worth 22 and you owe 12, if I'm doing the math right, you're going to have somewhere in the $8 to $10,000 range uh off the sale of that.

You go get an $8 to $10,000 car. And it is what it is. We're in a season right now of rebuilding and you're jumpstarting the rest of your life. So, we're going to make a sacrifice. What we just did there is we paid for the car, the the secondary, you know, we're paying for another car cash and we just freed up $400 a month. That's what I

would do. Is that too extreme?

>> No, not necessarily. >> I know there's only 12 left and I know that's why. But you know, >> Yeah. I mean, you could you guys can make some moves, Gary. To Ken's points to get this cleaned up. I mean, you really could. Um, >> now you only got seven grand left.

>> Yeah. >> And $400 extra to put towards that,

>> right? >> I mean, if I wanted to get it out of the way quickly, that's what I would do. and not take the easy button and pay taxes.

>> And I don't want to mess with my investments right now at 43 years of age. I don't want to touch that. I need that to be growing. >> Well, and my other thing is I'm like, it's a $180,000 income, you know? I'm like, I think you guys could really do this in a year. I really do.

>> Um, >> so I think there's something about the discipline, um, which you guys are have.

You started you, you know, the thousands and you're throwing the rest of the debt. It's amazing. >> Um, but I just don't think I wouldn't touch I wouldn't touch [music] IAS. I really wouldn't. >> Yeah, I agree with you. All right, folks. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to [music] walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 127. Protect Your Wallet From Other People’s Chaos | August 12, 2025


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[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of the brand new Runaway Hit on the Ramsey Networks. It's called Front Row Seat, where he does long form interviews with all kinds of famous and big people that are uh giving you insights into

success. It's really, really good. Ken,

who's dropping this week?

>> Uh, of course you asked me and I don't even know who's dropping tomorrow. I want to say, >> uh, it might be Rachel Cruz. She's in the hopper. That was a fun conversation.

>> Gary Gary uh Gary is already out.

>> That already came out. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Lieutenant Dan.

>> Yeah. And we have Ethan Cross is has been out for a week. It's doing very well. Ethan is a professor and a two-time bestselling author uh on Pivot and it's all about mindset. And so this is all about emotion in the professional

setting, in your personal life. How do we shift our mental mindset to win? So it's pretty deep stuff. I can't say the word pivot anymore after uh co I get PTSD. >> Actually, I said that wrong. The name of his book is Shift. >> Oh, that's much better. That's a good book. Okay, now I know the book.

>> It's a runaway bestseller called Shift.

>> Huge. It's a great book. I didn't I didn't I didn't hear what you're talking about. >> Well, yeah, I used the wrong What was the other What was the other co word we can't say anymore? Oh, unprecedented. >> Unprecedented. >> Oh my god. >> And you're right. That was ruined in about three days. >> I'm just over both of those words for the rest of my life. All right. Pamela is in Alabama. Hi, Pamela. How are you?

>> Hey, thanks for having me on the show today. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Hey. Well, this question is a mix of financial and family issues. Maybe words of caution for your listeners, Mr.

Ramsey. Um, we recently changed our financial advisor. I was with him for 40 years and my husband uh moved his money over there 13 years ago, a second marriage, and we both retired, myself as recently as 2023.

My adviser was my brother. I come from a

larger family of seven. There seemed to be a lot of unspoken rules. Use your sister as your insurance agent, your brothers as your financial advisor, your other siblings for such and such. And I

have to admit, I was on autopilot, Miss Ramsay, for about 40 years, finishing college, marriage, kids, growing a career, getting divorced, remarried, you know, life. Um, I simply handed my brother money over time and occasionally looked in on my investments.

I I do want to be clear, he did no harm.

However, he did nothing special either.

And now that I'm retired and I've been studying indepth about retirement planning, I think I've I've got a great deal of ground to make up around tax planning, things like Roth conversions.

I got hammered on deferred compensation plans, things like that. He never had those conversations with us.

So before I retired, my husband and I requested of him multiple times of a retirement plan and it just felt like it fell on deaf ears. Um even tax planning

and then our net worth increased more.

Our last parent died and I got I don't

know how to say this. I wanted some privacy um in in what our financial position was. So, we did eight months of really

hard work and research and we jump shipped and we hired an adviser that's meeting and exceeding all of our needs and we feel relieved and confident every day of where we're going. I mean, financially, tax planning, charitable plans, legacy. This was not an easy thing for us to do. >> Oh, it's very painful. >> So, here's my question. >> Very painful. I'm sorry. But very painful, but very wise.

>> So, here's my question. telling my brother the news went horribly, disastrous.

He didn't want to hear our reasons. He heaped a flurry of fbombs on us. Um, he

announced I was dead to him, other unpleasantries.

Even his wife and one of my siblings piled it on. I mean, I was beyond shocked. And when we hung up the phone, because we live in different states, my husband looked at me and said, "Um, I guess we made the right decision." And I said,"I guess our money really wasn't our money." And it's been almost a year

and virtually no communication from nearly any of my siblings. And I know I had turned down at least one family event because I was concerned I might get attacked there. So gosh, is there reconciliation here? I mean, our financial life is our lifeline and we we

have to do what was right for us. But I hate I hate this family risk and and fracture.

>> What have you seen in all of your your journeys in life? >> Wow. I'm sorry. That's so painful. Um

>> yeah. >> Well, you did obviously your husband's right. Made the right decision and and this all confirms it. Um reconciliation,

it sounds to me like is up to him.

>> I don't think that's I don't think that ball's on your side of the net.

>> Okay. um you know, he's the one that said, "You're dead to me. He's the one that sicked his wife and the sibling on you." And those kinds of things. And so,

um you know, I do a couple things. I just sit back and and let it cool. Um

you you might consider writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting a letter before you send it. Um, I don't

think that boundaryless people, people that don't respect boundaries, will ever accept a reason for the boundary.

>> Mhm. >> In other words, there's no amount of logic that's going to make him okay.

This is not a logic scenario.

This is just, >> hey, listen. I know you don't. It It might sound something like this. I know you don't understand what we did. Um, I

wish I could have explained it better.

I'm sorry for that. Our goal was not to hurt you. Our goal was to get some privacy and to get a new set of eyes and

we've done that. But we're very sorry we hurt you in the process. That was not something we wanted. And anytime that you we love you and anytime you want to talk um uh and you know have a relationship, I'm here >> or just something that's o something openhanded like that. and um you know uh

um and sometimes that changes it. But

don't try to work get him to be convinced that this was the smartest thing you ever did. It's just simply this was something I had to do and I know you don't understand and I'm so sorry. >> That's that simple >> because the more you get into it, the more it picks the more the poor salt in the wound.

>> Right. Right. Because basically you're telling him he sucks at his job, which by the way he does.

>> Well, >> well, he does. I mean, >> I I I know >> that was the conclusion you came to anyway. >> Right. >> No point in bringing that up. No point in bringing that up. It's just like >> no is a complete sentence.

>> Okay. I I'll give you an example of a similar situation. Um >> that that it evokes the same emotions as at Ramsey. We've got 1100 team members and sometimes someone's time here is up.

We've warned them. We've talked to them.

We've coached them. We've been through a process of unpleasant uh conversations.

And finally, their last day is today. We

don't have a long conversation. It's a minute and a half, >> right? >> We've talked about this and the decision has been made that today's your last day. All the emotions, all the stuff and all that. I I understand. But the decision has been made that today's your last day. The less you say, the better.

In other words, in those things, >> yeah, Pamela, I would say this very quickly. I would have a boundary to protect yourself, but I also wouldn't give him more power than he deserves. In other words, I'd show up at family events, smile and wave, uh, and don't

give him power to exclude you when you did nothing wrong.

>> I'd consider that. Now, if it's just crazy wacky, then then get away from it.

>> Yeah. Dr. Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries, would help your mind.

[Music]

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[Music]

John's with us in Oregon. Hey, John.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey, Dave. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have a question for you. Um, I'm in college now and I just, um, I'm starting my sophomore year. I uh my siblings or my parents have been uh took money from me in high school as like borrowing it to supplement their income um and then just didn't pay it back and now they're doing it for my siblings.

>> How much money did you have in high school?

>> I had well I was making about

$5 to $8,000 a year just working part-time and then full-time during the summers. >> How much money did they take from you?

about $3,000 total after uh before I

could get my own bank account and then all my money isn't there now.

>> And you you said you're off at school now?

>> Yeah, I'm in college now. So, I have my own bank accounts. It's all separate.

I'm good. >> You're you're how old? You're how old?

>> I'm 19. >> Okay. Wow. I'm sorry. And now that's happening to your little brothers and sisters. Okay. Financial abuse. Yeah.

Okay.

>> What's wrong with your parents? That's so weird.

>> I mean, I think they I mean, we've had some issues where happened where my mom had an injury that's been working through like a like a legal case or whatever and stuff and they just she lost her job and so they've just been running on not much, but like it's okay, you know, I get if you know they pay you back and something in a month or two or something like that, but when they it's been years, >> it's really not okay. I mean, >> grown grown-ups don't take kids money.

That's just not okay for any reason to borrow or otherwise. That's just wrong.

I mean, there's just something wrong with the family script, isn't there?

>> Yeah. So, I don't I just wondering your advice cuz I'm I'm okay now, but um I

just want to know what your thoughts because they're they're smart. They're going to be successful, but you know, when they're trying to get ready to, you know, go into college or get their first car, it's like, you know, how are they supposed to do this? So, [Music]

Wow,

that's a tough situation. I'm sitting here thinking through this because they can't try to any ideas that I had and I had two or three pop in my mind about how they could protect their money. But the problem is they live in their house and if they're being abused in that way where they're taking their money, them hiding money from your parents isn't a legitimate solution just because of the tension and all of that and the craziness. So there's not much they can do.

>> Yeah. And they just justified it because like, you know, it's either we're going to put food on the table and like you're going to eat or like we're going to, you know, >> you know, that kind of thing. That was what they >> I mean, why don't they work?

>> Well, they they work and they make good money. They just don't they don't have a budget. They don't >> I mean, what what is good money? Because food on the table is not good money if you have to take it from a teenager.

>> Yeah, they don't have good money.

>> Well, I I think they make definitely over 100 grand. Um so that was a couple years ago I heard it. >> So these people are just whacked.

>> They're just whacked. Okay. How old are your siblings?

>> Uh like uh 16 and 17 in high school. So like right around the age to get a car and then um >> yeah, >> you know, saving up for getting out of or going into college. Are there equally wacky stories that you're not bringing up and we don't have time to cover, but is there a lot of wackiness besides this issue for them and your parents?

>> Um, I think there's kind of a weirdness around money. You know, we um I was the first one to actually start making money and like have, you know, to get a joint bank account as my first account. Um, and then just start making money with summer jobs to save for college.

>> And I think just as things were tight, it was like, oh, it's right there. It's so it's just easy to transfer some over.

Hey, we'll pay you back 500 bucks this 500 bucks and >> and when we get paid or whatever, >> I guess I mean you you've spoken to them about it. They don't give a rip. Um they justify it, which is absolutely ludicrous. Um typically what some kind of weirdo like this will do. Um I mean, you have two options. One is just make peace with it and move on with your life. Uh, two is interfere and that is

to call your siblings up and say, "Hey, if you want to open up a bank account over here, I'll help you open up one and you can put all your money over here and I'll help you do that." You can do that at 19 >> and um, you know, have side a bank. It's not hiding it. It's just saying, "Mom and dad," and if your parents say anything, well, you you stole all my money. I'm trying to keep you from stealing theirs.

>> Yeah, >> right. >> That's what I'd say. I would just say, you know, you're freaking thief.

>> I'm not sure. I don't think they would, but it would add a lot of tension to any and all family gatherings we have after that. >> Yeah. Yeah. They've already done that.

>> Let me Let me help you with this. There's a big old elephant with his butt sitting in the middle of your living room already. Y'all are walking around it. >> Yeah. >> Acting like it's not there. He's a big sucker.

>> The elephant in the room. You know what I'm talking about, right? >> That your parents are thieves. Yeah.

There's tension in the room. You've already addressed it.

>> You It's just that they don't feel it.

That's the only difference.

>> The rest Everybody else goes, "Oh yeah, we got to watch out for them."

It's like the flirty step uncle. I mean, you got to stay away from Bob, you know?

Oh my god. She's like, "No, of course we know. We talk about Bob and we keep Bob away from you." No. I mean, come on.

>> I David, sorry, Bob, but >> call me out on this, David, if I'm wrong. >> There's a somewhere really pissed right now. If I were I'm trying to put myself in your brother's shoes 16 and 17. If my mom and dad did this to me and I'm trying to be as honest as I can.

I legitimately think that if I confronted them, I'm talking about your siblings and they were still doing it, I think I would have left. I would have gone to family. I would have gone somewhere because I think that's such a breach of trust.

>> Yeah. It's really the lack of integrity here and the the the ethics of this are just scummy. So yeah, I you you know

>> is that extreme? Call me out if I'm wrong. I just trying to be honest. >> The other thing is I I just I you know I don't know what to do because here's the thing. You're not going to fix them.

>> No. >> Nothing in this is going to fix them.

But denial doesn't fix them either.

>> I know. >> So I don't know. I like throwing a grenade in the middle of it personally, but that's just cuz I'm a hillbilly. So I like throwing a grenade in the middle of everything in case see what happen.

>> What would you have done if that scenario was happened to you when you were 16? I mean, in our culture, we all left every for a lot of reasons. You know, it was just like we're getting out of here. You're not welcome.

You don't want to be here. I'm going to do some better somewhere else. It's and you know, and part of that was just getting the little eiglets out of the nest. You know, that's okay, too.

But the, you know, no 28-year-olds in the basement in our culture.

I'm sorry. That's just God, that's two in a row of these things. Whacked family stuff. Yeah, >> we're just going to sell Henry Cloud's book all day. And it's it's an old book, but still selling it. Yeah.

>> Um, boundaries.

>> I I uh John, I tell you what I'd like for you to do. I'd like for you to take advice from someone other than us.

>> Yeah. >> Because we're just stirring up trouble here. And I don't think that's wise either. So, I if I were you, I would get with a local pastor there.

And if you're not plugged into a good church, get plugged into a good church and get some get some good godly counsel from someone that is a pastoral counsel that just says, "Okay, what should happen here?" Um, I mean, if this were another kind of abuse, it would be against the law and and social services would come in, but this is just financial abuse. They're just stealing the money and uh and they don't need it to eat. That's absolute hogwash. If they make 100,000 and they're not choosing food over choosing stealing their teenagers money, they're not choosing that's that's just bull crap.

That's a narcissistic bull crap line. Whether they're a narcissist, I don't know, but it's a narcissistic line. It's gaslighting.

Wow. Uh I don't I I I hesitate to send

the 19-year-old in to do battle in this.

I agree. So, um, but but you know, you

can either do nothing and just, you know, talk to your siblings on the side and say, "Hey, I don't have the money." Or, um, talk to them on the side and and just be right up front. Say, "I'm going to help them open a bank account because of what you did to me and you've never paid me back." And they can't get a car cuz you keep taking their money. And then if they're pissed, they're pissed.

I mean, so what? Um, you know, worse

things could happen than pissing off people like this. So, somebody needs to do something. But I John, I hate to send you into the battle by yourself. So, I'd put some counsel in your corner and let

them talk through it with you. It's just

know from us that we're verifying that this is cray cray. It's nuts. Okay.

[Music]

[Music]

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webinar. Okay, Ken. Um, I got a sidebar

because we got two in a row uh that are tremendous crazy family u

uh boundary issues. Um, and

so it's fair to state personal

finance, the problem with personal finance is

people >> that the people that we find that are

successful in their careers, which you work with all the time, like at Front Row Seed and all of that, and the people that we find simultaneously that are successful in their wealth building. um and that are successful in their spiritual walk and so on. Uh they

overcome the people and they embrace the people, the good people. They overcome the bad people and embrace the bad the good people. Um everyone has it. Some get more than their share uh more of a dose of craziness to start off life. Coming from a dysfunctional family and my family put the fun in dysfunctional. Yeah, that one. Now, you come from that family, it it's a it's a rough start. You know, like that kid there, that was tough. >> Yeah. And um

but what I want to point out to our listener base right now is that unless

and until you deal with those things

uh not only between your own ears but you set healthy relational boundaries

that do not allow uh the takers to

interfere with your progress. Whether they take your joy, take your hope, or take your money.

You don't allow the takers to take advantage of you and to interfere with your progress until you set enough boundaries. I'm going to love you from a distance about two miles.

Get your butt out of here because you're just nuts. Your negative nanny. Every time I'm around you, all you can do is talk about negative crap and I need to move in another direction. And so, learning to set those boundaries is very painful. >> Mhm. >> But the sooner you set them, the faster your progress begins. And you will not overcome those things unless you put some fences up. You cannot they are bigger hurdles than any mathematical 401k question you can ever ask me. Any

stupid Bitcoin idea you've got. Whatever it is you're trying to do with money is not going to work until you put learn to deal with the people in your life. And that includes some of you that are dating right now and you you don't need to marry that one.

That one's going to be a long life.

They're fun right now, but you know in your heart of hearts that one's going to be rough. You're going to spend your whole life dealing with Nutty.

And you're going to wake up every morning with Nutty and go to bed every night with Nutty. And that just that's crud, man. That's a long Don't don't marry that one. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. I mean, one of the reasons that I've been able to accomplish the things I've been able to accomplish is my wife's sanity and strength.

She's adds value to the whole process

every day. She does not cost me emotion

hardly ever. She does not cost me, you

know, ridiculous scenarios that I have to deal with while I'm trying to get my freaking work done. And it's one of the things that that and one of the reasons she's got a good life is the same thing is I do that for her. Add value to her in those areas. You same I've watched you and Stacy do this for 20 years. 25 years we've known each other. Same exact thing. You just can't overcome it.

>> This personal relational roadblocks uh

if you don't take you know a bulldozer

and build some fences, some boundaries, it's just impossible. >> I'm glad you said to everybody and I hope you heard Dave. He said, 'It's going to be painful. But here's what successful people do that Dave's talking about.

They choose their pain. So, it's going to be painful. Both of these phone calls illustrate that there was pain in making the right decision, but there was also more pain in not making the right decision. So, choose your pain.

And I'm I think that's what successful people do. They go, "This is this is not a win-win from an emotional standpoint." But when we take the emotion out of it and acknowledge that this is going to be dirty and nasty and ugly because of somebody else them being unhealthy, then it makes that painful decision a little easier to make. Choose your pain here is the lesson I'm taking from what you said. >> And I agree with you.

I mean, it it's proactive. Somebody's going to be pissed.

right? >> Piss off the right people. >> That's that's that's right. You know, like you're mad because I'm doing this with my kids. Well, I I'm I choose you're mad over my kids dysfunction and being in counseling when they're 30. So, I'm doing this with my kids. Screw it.

You know, you're okay. You'll make it or you won't make it. I I'll choose who will be mad. And like some of you send in hate mail or you post stupid butt stuff in the comments thing.

It's like it's not relevant. I've already chose who I'm g who I want. If if you're who's mad, I chose the right one. you know, that's perfect.

And so, versus the people that come around want help, need help, and we can help them and get get our arms around them and give them some information and some inspiration and they move forward. That's who that's who I want to spend my energy on in the business here and in what we do. But the same thing's true with your family. You're going to choose.

Okay. Who's going to be mad?

parents?

Cuz grandmother is a travel agent for guilt trips.

And so, uh, mom, we're not going to be able to spend Thanksgiving there this year.

>> Yeah.

Having a duck fit, as we call it.

>> Yeah. >> Not sure exactly what that's what a duck sounds like when they're having a fit, actually. So, >> I'd rather have a peaceful Thanksgiving at the cost of making the family upset than >> Yeah. >> making them happy and being miserable.

>> Cousin Eddie's doing heroin. Cousin Eddie's not invited to Thanksgiving.

Cousin Eddie's pissed. Oh, well, Cousin Eddie's pissed. The heroin addict cousin is pissed. I can deal with that. I can deal with that. I just set a boundary.

You're not coming. You're not blowing up my sewer. Looks like Christmas vacation, whatever it is, right? But you know, if if you got cousin Eddie and you have to piss off somebody, cousin Eddie's not having access to my children.

>> Okay. That was funny in the movie. It is not funny in real life. Okay.

>> And so you got to decide these things >> ahead of time. And the problem is you it

is painful. >> Yeah. because it's often times people who you wish uh would would be cheering

for you. >> Sure. >> Friends, family, whatever they are, but they're not. And it's like, okay, second grade teacher that said, "I'm never going to mount to anything, you don't get a vote." >> Actually, that happened, you know. And uh you know, third grade teacher who said, "You could be anything you want to be." Oh, you get a vote.

>> Yeah. >> And actually um had her here at the building a while back and honored her because we love teachers that don't mail it in. And so, um, you know, it's just Cali, folks. So, but it it's a I I what

I'm trying to point out is I don't think people realize how heavy the correlation is between your ability to manage relationships and set boundaries with relationships and whether or not you actually end up with any money. >> That's right.

Very few people build wealth until they learn to say no to the right people.

Till they learn to piss off the right people. Your brother who's managed your money for 40 years and did a bad job. Oh

well, you're pissed.

I can deal with that. Your sister who got her real estate license three weeks ago. No, you're not selling my house.

You don't even know how to spell house.

We're not doing it. Somebody else is selling my milliondoll house. Not a newbie. Well, I'm your sister. I know.

This is why we're not doing this. One of the other reasons we're not doing this. Well, I'm going to be mad. Well, good.

You're going to be mad, but I'm going to not screw up a million-dollar transaction cuz you don't know what the flip you're doing. This is stupid. But this is the kind of stuff you have to deal with all through your life. Right.

>> That's right. >> And if you don't deal with this stuff, you end up with a horrible life and no money and no pattern of success anywhere in any part of your life. >> That's right. >> So this these things are inextricably tied to each other. They're woven together. So it's why this stupid stuff ends up on this show. It starts sound like Jerry Springer sometimes. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Andrew is in Tennessee. Hey, Andrew. How are you >> doing? Pretty good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was calling to try to get some uh advice from you. Um, I'm thinking about

going back to college uh to get my

architectural degree and uh it's a

little late in life. I mean, I'm I'm 40 years old. Um, but I was going to see

what your thoughts on it were. Um, going

back to school that late in life. Um, if it's a wise decision or not.

>> Why?

>> Cuz it's expensive. >> No. No. Why? Why would you go be an architect at what what are you doing now

and what's your dream?

>> Um well before what I did before what I

do now um I was in the drafting and design business for 20 years almost

>> designing what were you designing houses or commercial or what?

>> Uh mill work and uh steel buildings um

you know different things like that.

So, what would the Here's the simpler here's the simpler question, okay?

>> What would this architecture degree allow you to do that you cannot do now?

And how much would you make versus what you make now?

>> Well, what I make now, it would just add on to what I make. Um, we own uh rental property. Um, and that's what I've done

for the last couple of years. Um, it makes pretty good money. Um, >> so what would you make? So, how much more would you make? Let's fast forward and assume you have the degree right now. How much more would it allow you to make annually because of the architecture degree?

>> Uh, probably 150,000. I mean, 15 wait.

Something's wrong. So, you're currently managing an entire portfolio of real estate and that's what you live off of.

Is that what you said?

>> Yeah. >> And and how much is all this real estate worth?

Um, we bring in about half a million a year. >> Yeah. And how much is all this real estate worth?

>> Uh,

we've had offers of like 4 million for

it a couple of times.

>> So, it's an it it's a like one apartment or something or what?

>> No, it's a it's a mobile home park.

There's 50 uh 50 54 homes.

>> Okay. So, you own and manage 54 mobile homes. You make a half million on them and the value is about 4 million.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. That's what I'm trying to >> No, we don't bring home we we we don't bring home. >> This has nothing to do with architecture whatsoever. So, if you quit managing this, how does it get managed?

>> I'm not going to uh I won't quit man.

>> Honey, you can't do two full-time jobs.

The idea of a full-time job is it's >> No, I No, we would still own it. I would just hire someone in. >> That's what I asked. Okay. All right.

So, you bring a manager in so that you could go be an architect.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And now, what do you want to build? What do you want to build as an architect? What do you want to draw?

>> Uh, hotels and houses.

>> Okay. And you hotels, it be helpful.

Houses. You don't need an architectural degree to draw houses.

>> I'm living in a house that's millions of dollars in value. It was drawn by a guy who doesn't have an architectural degree,

>> but it it has to be stamped by an architect, >> not houses.

>> Uh, in the state of Tennessee.

>> In the state of Tennessee. I just built one. Honey.

>> Oh, I thought you had to have a architect actually stamp off on the drawings to >> Not a house. >> What do you What do you pay yourself? I want to get to the cost. So, you said this is so expensive and should I spend the money? Let's go to what you pay yourself.

>> What do you pay yourself? >> Uh we make me and my wife together make about 100,000 a year.

>> Okay. And and what is the I'm looking at the cost of uh of instate schools in Tennessee. Um nobody cares where you got your architect degree from. Tennessee State, you know, you're looking at an average of $8,300 per year. That's not a whole lot of money. University of Tennessee, average tuition's 13. Now, that doesn't include all the fees, but as you're looking at this, how much money are you thinking you got to spend to get this degree?

>> The the school I'm I've currently

enrolled in and done a summer semester at um Academy of Art in um it's in

California. It's the only online architecture school. >> What's it setting you back per year?

What's the cost?

>> It's going to be $150,000 by the time I do all five years. That's not including interest. I think it's too much money.

Yeah, >> you don't need to spend that for that.

It's not a good value exchange.

>> You get a four-year degree in architecture from the state of Tennessee at University of Tennessee Knoxville for 13,000 a year.

>> That's for the whole year. >> For the year. Yeah. >> Not for a semester. >> That's for the year. >> For the year. So, this is not a good value exchange.

>> You're getting ripped.

>> Okay. So, two things. Two things. One is Yes. I Yes. I want you to go get in the

business of drawing things for other people. It's a passion that's inside your stomach. I love that. Okay, I want you to go do that. >> Uh the question, the two questions we have that we want you to solve for after you get off of here is one, what is the least expensive and fastest way I can get this get what I need to go do that?

And then question number two is, do you really need an architectural stamp >> to do what you want to do?

>> Well, if I'm going to draw like hotels or >> if you're going to draw commercial, if you're going to draw large commercial, you're going to need an architectural stamp. I can tell you that, >> right? Yeah. >> Okay. Um, but you're also competing with huge architectural firms for that same job, >> right? Well, the in my area that I live

in, there's actually not many architects in this area. There's like three.

>> But here's what I'd want to know. >> Then there's not many hotels being built, >> right? There's some evidence there.

>> There's what? >> There's evidence that there's only three. I'd find out why there's only three. In other words, does the market can it >> there's not not enough not enough economic activity to support more than that. >> Yeah. >> Well, if it I'm in Pigeon Forge.

>> Yeah. >> So, there's plenty of economic >> The point is is that people obviously are not using Pigeon Forge architects to build the stuff. They're using architects out of Nashville, out of Knoxville, and out of Atlanta and Chicago and whatever else, depending on which company is coming in to build the thing, >> right? >> Okay.

So, you know, what you've got to do is get in to figure out exactly a what is needed >> to do what you want to do. And I'm questioning whether you need an architectural stamp if you really want to go that far. If if it's necessary, if it is necessary, if the answer is yes, then figure out the least expensive way to do it. And if you're in Pigeon Forge, honey, go down to go down Knoxville and knock this thing out.

I mean, you're an hour away. >> Go down drive.

You're like a grown-up and stuff. You're not trying to play beer pong. You're just getting the degree.

>> Okay? So, just go knock it out as fast as you possibly can and um find out if

they have any kind of adult um learning for the architectural school. But the University of Tennessee's architectural school has got a great reputation by the way, just as a side note. But um and uh

I've used two or three architects on projects that graduated from there and they all were excellent in their knowledge base. So if you do need it, that's the way to do it. But online for 150 grand versus 50 grand.

And no, no, not doing that. Yeah.

especially given that you told Dave and I as we questioned what your process was that you were going to continue to you were going to hire someone to manage the uh the trailer park. So in this case now I can do a similar version of this and still manage to do school. You don't need an online school in California to the tune of 30 grand.

>> Go and put your manager in now and haul your little butt down to Knoxville. Yeah, >> that'll work. >> Yeah. But I I got to mention this to our to our greater audience. There's four qualifying questions that I wrote about in in from paycheck to purpose. When you're looking to get qualified, here's four questions you have to answer and it comes up with a very simple doable plan and it's not intimidating. First question is what do I need to learn?

This is is there a degree that I must have to do the thing I want to do. If not, there's cert there's certificate programs, there's boot camps. So, first question is what do I need to learn? Second question is what do I need to do?

What experience will I need to get to eventually do the thing I want to do?

That tells me where on the ladder I need to enter. Third question is um how much

is it going to cost? Get the best options. Get all the options. The fourth question is based on cost and what I got to learn and do. What's my expectation?

How long will it take to get where I want to go? Those four questions when you answer give you a clear path that is not scary to do. And that'll keep you from spending $250,000 on a master's degree in social work to make 38,000.

That's right.

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[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat, a runaway hit on the Ramsay

networks. He's my co-host today.

Vincent's in Ohio or Idaho. What did I say? Idaho. Hey Vincent, what's up?

>> Hey, how we doing, guys? Hopefully your Monday is treating you well. >> It is sir. How can we help?

>> Um, the question I have is I just recently joined the Air National Guard and with that I get a $50,000 bonus. So,

my question is, what I I'm thinking of investing it, right? I don't want to blow it on a nice new car, you know, like a lot of people do. I don't I want to invest it and make my money work for me. What would you guys recommend me doing with it? >> Well, thank you, sir, for serving your country. >> I appreciate that. >> Oh, yeah, for sure. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> Uh, I am 22 and I just recently graduated from uh the university.

>> Okay. All right. And are you going to be full-time guard or is this just your >> uh No, I'll just be parttime. Yeah. And they have a $50,000 sign on now.

>> Yeah. Isn't that crazy? >> That's pretty incredible. That's awesomeness. >> I know it is. Yeah. >> Okay. So, um, cool. So, what's your career going to be?

>> Um, so my career, uh, it's kind of like a smaller one. It's called industrial organizational psychology. Basically, what I want to do is apply like statistics and stats to be able to go into like businesses and be able to improve them. Right. >> Okay. You just graduated school. You got the job?

>> Uh, no. I don't have a job yet since I'll be going out to like basic training and everything. So, right now I'm just kind of in like La La Land. I'll ship out in like a week or two and then when I come back, um I have to get a master's degree uh first. Well, I don't know if I have to, but >> Okay. Um Okay. So, if you come back and you get a job and you're sustainable, you won't need this 50,000 to live is my point.

>> Yeah, exactly. No, I'm not I'm not banking on the 50k. What?

>> That's all I was I was just trying to verify. We don't need it to eat. Okay.

And the uh you have any debt?

>> Uh zero debt. >> Cool. Good for you. What are you driving?

>> Uh I have in uh like a 2007 uh Camry.

It's treating me well. Decent mileage.

No complaints. >> Okay. All right. Um I'm I'm going to put

10 with that and upgrade your car.

I appreciate you not complaining, but your car sucks.

>> Okay. So, let's >> Well, I mean, I do want to I mean I I think uh I'll put a little bit towards my car, but I think I want like this is my idea and obviously you're the expert.

I want to put most of it into like an investment, right? Like a mutual fund. I >> I would love for you to do that, okay?

But I want you to create a sustainable lifestyle so you keep your freaking hands off of it. And if you're driving a 2007 and it blows a gasket 3 weeks after you do your investment, you're going to start cashing out the investment and do a stupid bad car deal.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I also have >> That's what I'm trying to keep you from doing. Okay. So, um >> Yeah.

No, that makes sense. >> So, I I I if I were you, I would invest 40 and I'd put 10 into a car if I woke up in your shoes and I'd put it into good growth stock mutual funds. Sit down with a smart vest pro in your area. You can find those at Ramsey Solutions.

They have the heart of a teacher.

teach you about mutual funds, how they work, what what the track records are, and they love the good ones. And they we

only let the good ones into our program.

We don't endorse the bad ones. Okay. But

the they love sitting with a young person because they know what power the power of compound interest and they know that 40. You said you're 22.

Yeah. 22. >> Yeah. So, when you're 29, that's 80.

When you're 36, it's 160.

When you are 43, it's 320 if you don't

touch it.

>> Yeah. Leave it in until I retire, right?

>> Yeah. It's going to be it's going to be millions of dollars at retirement if you just keep doing the formula I was just doing. Now, that's the trick. Now, you may want to use some of it someday to buy a house.

You may want to use some of it someday. That's okay. But let's learn. Let's start the learning process because you have the seeds of greatness in you because you're willing to ask at 22 years old about doing something smart instead of going and buying a brand new F-150 >> which you can't buy a wife 150 for 150 grand.

I'm sorry, my bad. But anyway, buying a stupid car.

master's degree because you were unsure.

That's okay. But let's figure out, do we actually need a master's degree to do the work that you want to do? If the answer is yes, how soon do we need it?

Are there le are there rungs on the ladder to that ultimate role that I can

climb without the master's degree? Think this thing through. Don't assume that I got to go get it now when you may not need to get it now. And also uh do your homework on where I can get it from the absolute cheapest because I I sing this note all the time. Nobody who is your

future customer is going to ask you where you got your master's degree. So make a smart decision there as well.

>> Let me help you. They're most of the time not even going to ask if you got a master's degree. >> Right. That's right. >> Only thing we got, 1100 people working here. The only thing we're concerned about is can you do the job? If the master's degree is an indication that you know something, that's good, >> but sometimes it's an indication you know nothing. So, um, you just weren't

smart enough to stop going to school.

So, uh, uh, you know, we need to get into why you need this and what it is and how it applies. And industrial organizational management, it does not require master's degree to be successful. It might to get in the door

with certain Fortune 500s, but to do the

actual job, the knowledge base is not needed. It's like a It's like an MBA, a masters in business. It's a great degree. There's nothing wrong with it, but you can do the job of business, running a business, understanding business, building business acumen without an MBA.

I don't have one, and I run a $300 million company, so it's very possible. It can be done. um got to have a couple brain cells to rub together and then you'll figure it out. But the uh this idea that somehow degrees are your deliverance is Ken's point.

and they and they are figuring out trying to figure out how student loan debt forgiveness works and it doesn't work. >> So, it's a problem to when people just

go get degrees that they don't need.

>> Yeah. >> Especially if you're borrowing money to do it, it makes it even worse. So, it it's a big issue. The the uh documentary

that was award-winning that we did a few years ago, you can now watch it free on YouTube, is called Borrowed Future. It gets into in detail, >> you know, what is needed. And we're not against a four-year degree.

>> We don't hate colleges and universities.

I hate what they charge because of some of the stupid butt stuff they build on campus. I hate that. But you know what I

hate what gets what I don't want is people believing lies that lead them down a trail. >> And the lie is you have to have a degree to do this and you don't. >> Exactly. Right. Yeah. And and the question is is a degree the only way or

is it the best way? That's a two-part question. And if the answer is no to either one, folks, listen. There's some great news here. >> A lot less money and a lot less time to get qualified. Yep. But you've been sold this bill of goods that the degree is always the grade A best option.

>> If my life is bad, the answer is go back to college. >> That's right. Like that's going to solve it. >> That's going to make your life worse.

Yeah. >> No.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

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[Music]

is with us in Phoenix. Hi Canoa. How are you >> doing? Good Dave. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. So, me and my wife are currently on

baby step 3B, and we're trying to see

what our next step should be. So, right now, we're able to save about 40,000 a

year, give or take. And we're trying to decide, should we save for two years and

then buy with 20% down to avoid PMI at a

15-year fixed, or should we just keep renting for the next seven years and then just pay for a house outright in cash?

>> What's your household income?

>> About 150,000, give or take.

>> What do you all do?

>> Uh, I'm in sales and she's in um social

media marketing. >> Okay. So your seven years assumed your household income would be staying at 150. >> Yes. >> Which is not true cuz obviously you're going to your income is going to go up during seven years. Agreed.

>> I would hope so. Yeah. >> I I would hope so too. Otherwise, we got other problems. Yeah. So um so probably looking at five years.

>> So that How old are you guys?

>> Uh I am 24, she is 22.

>> Okay. So, when she's 27 years old, you pay cash for a house. And when you're 29 years old, you pay cash for a house. Or in two years, we put 20% down.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. That that's what we're laying out here. Um, so the answer is neither one of these are horrible options. None of these are in the stupid column.

None of these are in the I'm going to yell at you, don't do something stupid.

Please, please, please column. Okay.

Very smart choices that you proposed in both cases. And the answer is whichever one you would like to do. That's the answer because they're both smart. Now, let the and I will tell you this. I am

bound by a this is the only answer on

the Ramsey show that I give. That is not what I would do, okay? Because I do not borrow money ever

for anything ever again.

>> Period. No matter what. So, I would have

personally Sharon Ramsey, Dave Ramsey, we'd have one option, and that's the five-year plan. And we'd turn it into a four-year plan because we'd work like maniacs because we'd be so pissed we didn't have a house. But all that, right? I mean, we would just go crazy. But that that's what we do and what we have done throughout our lives since we went broke and decided that the borrower is really slave to the lender and we really don't borrow money anymore

now. So, I don't have a choice. That's that's what I but that's a decision that

I made based on my understanding of scripture and the pain that we went through when we borrowed money. It is the one thing on this show again that I don't tell pe that I don't tell people they have to do. Other than that, I I never borrow money for a car. I'll just yell at you.

Don't borrow money for a car. It's stupid. Okay? Ride a bicycle before you borrow money for a car. It's just dumb.

Okay? You want to be middle class, get a car payment. You'll be middle class the rest of your stupid life. Okay?

just don't do that. You know, there's some stuff like that that I'm just going to hold you to and hold me to and hold everybody to just because it falls in the smart column. The other one's in the dumb column. Now, buying a house and you outline the exact Ramsay way, 20% down, if you can do it, uh, is preferable because you avoid private mortgage insurance and on 15-year fix where the payments no more than fourth of your take-home pay.

You just recanted back to me exactly what we teach. So, it's obvious you've been studying it and and you knew that that was the answer I would give you. So, that's perfect. Um, if you do that, you are obviously borrowing money, which I can't do, but I still don't yell at people for doing that.

I don't think it's dumb. Um, is the other way better? Yeah. Yeah.

I think b never borrowing money again is better. It's why I chose to do it. But, um, but I'm not going to yell at you for being dumb and doing that because it's what we teach and what we've taught here for years.

comes up. the only time the debt comes up on this show in 30 years that we've said it's okay and and with these very

strict guidelines to where you turn around and get the house paid off as fast as possible.

>> Yeah. I I put myself back into their

shoes and if I had it to do all over again and we were smart with our first home. We didn't buy something that was too expensive. We went pretty modest.

But if I had it to do all over again and I could get the entire payment in five years, I'd absolutely rent. That's >> especially when you're in your early 20s. >> Yeah. Freedom that early in life financially, emotionally to have no house payment.

I would definitely take that choice. >> Keep in mind, folks, the social pressure to do otherwise is every >> massive. Everyone's get a house. Get a house.

Oh, you're renting. Oh, like like you're going to hell if you're a renter. You know, it's like it's a salvation issue. Oh my god.

It's just the It's Oh, you're horrible. You're dumb.

And these are all broke people making these noises. But, you know, >> Doug's in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hi, Doug. What's up?

>> Hello there, Dave and Ken. How are you guys doing today? >> Great, man. How can we help?

>> That's great. I have a question regarding life insurance. I have a a term life insurance policy through the VGLI. It's a $50,000 payment or a

$50,000 benefit and I pay $300 annual on

it. I also have >> What is the VGLI?

>> The Veterans Group Life Insurance.

>> Oh, okay. Didn't recognize the initials.

Okay. All right. Thanks. >> That's okay. I also have a uh a whole

life policy. Now, I'm going to be 60 this year, and my mom got this policy for me when I was five years old, and she's been paying on it, and then I eventually took it over, and I've been paying on it ever since. It has a death benefit of $11,350.

It's >> like a family pet.

>> Yeah, exactly. No kidding. It's got $7,000 in total assets. Okay. With with

a taxable gain of about $3,300.

>> No. The question is, >> I doubt that. >> Should should Okay.

>> Who told you that? >> I call I call >> uh New York Life. I called them and asked them what the taxable gain was.

>> Out of $7,000 total assets, it's got 3,300 taxable gain, >> which means you guys have only put $4,000 in this in your entire life.

>> Basically, yes. I pay $129 a year for

that policy and it has $10,000 death

benefit. >> Okay. All right. So, if you take out seven if if they if you die, they're going to give your beneficiary $11,000 check. They're going to keep the $7,000.

>> Correct. >> So, you have $4,000 worth of insurance.

>> So, my question is, >> so you have $4,000 worth of insurance.

>> No, no, no, no, no. The actual death benefit is $11,000. >> I know, honey. But there's seven in there. That's your money. They're going to keep that.

>> So they're only giving you they're they're going they're going to give you your seven and $4,000 for 11.

>> Okay. >> 7 and four is 11.

>> Correct. Okay. >> So my question is I have about $20,000

in debt. Credit card and a personal loan

>> trucks paid for. Now that doesn't include my mortgage. >> Should I cash this out?

>> Yes. >> And pay off some of my debt?

>> Yes. For God's sakes. Yes.

Okay. Yeah, >> that's that that's what I was thinking also. So, I just I just wanted to hear what you thought about it. >> You have a savings account of $7,000 that when you die, they keep it.

>> Exactly. >> Oh, yeah. That somehow that doesn't work for me.

>> Okay. >> It's pretty It's that It is that simple.

>> And so, it it's that's how bad this product is. And New York Life talked this family into keeping this for 40

years like it's a family pet. And not only did

they not only did sweet little mama buy it and get screwed by New York Life, but on top of that, she handed

this piece of crap product, this turd

wrapped in a box to her son and said, "I passed this to my son.

as if it was the family bible or something. It's unbelievable

the emotions tied to this crap. Yes, cash it in, honey. As fast as you possibly can and run from that company as far as you can run a company that would do that. Oh my god. But this is this is why they have tall buildings and you live in small houses.

Think about it. In the old days, what was the skylines in a in the in the average city? The average skyline was banks and life insurance companies.

That was where all the money was. And who gave him that money? Santa Claus?

No.

Your mama, your daddy, your grandma when

she bought you that policy.

$11,000 at a time. We screwed America.

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I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls calls I have taken are from situations

that are completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost are stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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Do you know that seven out of 10

Americans die without a will.

That just that kind of fits cuz

78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. So people suck with money. So that just that just kind of solves that, right? I mean, it kind of fits, but it just blows your mind to think that seven out of 10 Americans die and let the state decide what happens to their kids.

If you have minor children and you both die and you don't have a will, the state

children's services decides, that's a dumb butt idea.

Do you not love your kids?

I mean, you don't even need money to need a will. You need, if you're 18, you need a will. Get your will.

Howard Hughes died with $2 and a half billion dollars in 1976.

Almost 10 years later, they settled his

estate. Didn't have a will. 600 people put in a claim.

He had cousins he didn't know he had.

Apparently, he had people that he loved that he didn't know he loved. Who knew? They came out of the woodwork, right? No will. So, everybody lined up like it was a lot ticket. 22 people ended up getting

some of the money almost 10 years later.

You know who got most of the money? De Laoyas.

Deoyas. Yeah. You know what the lawyers is? Yeah. Right. You know that's who got the So you need a will.

So the August is create a will month.

Who knew? Who cares? You need a will.

You need a will. And uh so here's what I want you to do. Take five minutes. Take a quick quiz at ramseysolutions.com/willquiz.

It's free. Click the link in the description if you're listening and we can help you figure out exactly what type of will. If you can do a quick easy one like with Mama Bear Legal Forms or if you've got a complicated estate and you need a lawyer, we'll we'll walk you through that. But either way, you need a will.

The people you love will hate you if you

die and make them untangle your mess.

They will want to dig you up and kill you again if you die without a will.

It's I mean it's such a dadgum disaster.

Don't do this. Jonathan's in Miami. Hi Jonathan. How are you?

>> How are you doing? >> Good. How can we help? >> I'm doing well.

>> Yeah. So, um just question. Um my fiance

and I were both in our 30s and we're coming up finally in our career and

we're both about $700,000 in debt together. Um and we're wondering you know after about say a year of saving and paying our loans um and 14 years of

training or realow to um kind of start

living our life finally like by getting a house and whatnot.

>> Wow.

So what in the world do you do for a living?

>> A world position actually.

>> I was hoping. Okay. So tell me this household income is huge.

Um yes it should be it will be huge now.

>> Um right now oh no right now we're both in between our training and are actually and starting our positions.

>> Oh okay. So you're just coming out of residency.

>> We're coming out of fellowship. Yes.

>> Out of fellowship. Okay. So when will you when will you get the big boy job?

>> Um we won't start till next month.

>> Okay. When you start what will the two of you be making here?

Um five uh both combined about 900.

>> Okay. All right. Um

>> pretend. >> Okay. Jonathan, I So you guys, you've

been in school your whole life.

>> I don't know anything else but a test.

>> And now you're going to make a million dollars a year as a return on that investment. Congratulations. That's amazing. I'm so proud of you.

>> Thank you so much. >> And you're the kind of doctor I want. One that actually knows what the flip they're doing. Thank you. That's pretty incredible. So, um, you're not going to

like my answer, but I will explain it to you, okay? As if it were a, um,

uh, as if the patient had a prognosis and we needed to give him a treatment plan. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> This patient, you and your wife, are a

couple of things I know about you, just based on your story. I'm 100% but sure both of you are very bright. dumb people

can't do what you all have done. Okay.

The other thing I know about you that you maybe have not admitted to yourselves, but I'm sure of is that you know how to delay pleasure for a greater

good. You can suffer long periods of

time for a an excellent result if you

believe the result is there. You have that emotional maturity, that spiritual ability that most people who can't make it to Friday.

You made it till 30.

Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. Work and work and work and work for tomorrow. That's delaying pleasure. You following me here?

>> You have that muscle built beautifully.

And I'm going to try to beg you to use that muscle just at least one more time.

900,000 minus 600,000 is 300,000.

I'm going to ask you to live on 300,000 your first year and be debtree before you buy a house

and before you buy a new Beamer or two.

By the way,

No cars whatsoever. >> Well, there there's a thing called duck.

We we have observed in my world a thing we call docitis.

Docitis is you've been holding your breath through grad school, through med

school, through residency, through fellowship. And when you finally get the big job, you exhale and it looks like consumer purchases at the wazoo.

That's what it looks like. And that's docitis. You've been holding your breath so long to ring the bell to get the prize that when you finally get it, you do stupid on steroids for about 2 years and it takes people in my world about 10 years to clean up the mess you made for you even though you make really good money. So, I'm trying to get you to tap in.

You you have this in this unbelievable ability. Not only are you smart, but you have the ability to delay pleasure. That's an emotional maturity factor, and you've got the ability to do that.

and finish the mess you made clean it up and then you're going to be so stinking rich and be able to own any house and any car you want to own. You make a million dollars a year with no payments and no debt of any kind. You are you're going to have so much money and such a great life. And that's what you've been promising yourself while you went through all these sacrifices.

And I'm asking you to do it for one more year.

Live like you're in residency and fellowship for one more year and use all of this fabulous income. Clear the debt in one year.

Did I make a sale?

>> It makes total sense.

>> Okay. >> It's not easy. I don't It's not easy because you're you've been you've been waiting all this time.

>> You've been waiting to get here and now you're finally here and this goober on the podcast is telling you not to do this, right? I don't blame you. I mean, it's a it's a normal human emotion. But dude, you guys are you the both of you,

you're a power couple.

>> How stressful is this work going to be on a scale of 1 to 10? What you know about it? >> Your work. >> Your work. Um, it'll probably be 7 to 8

maybe. >> Okay. Now, I want you to think about the added stress if you do what most doctors do and they live high on the hog coming out of college and all this and grad school and the whole n00,000 >> and just imagine the stress of the job plus the stress of the debt if you make no headway. Just seriously sit with that over the next three days.

Do some research. Read stories about doctors that are just overwhelmed by debt. Get a picture of what Dave and I are talking about because we've seen it. >> Peace.

over money. You got a stressful enough of a job. >> Hey, 900k. How much signing bonus you getting?

>> My sign on is about 20. Not much.

>> Oh, okay. All right. Just a big income.

>> So they don't necessarily >> I'm just curious. Which specialization?

Um, I'm gastro. >> And what about her?

>> And she's pulmonology. So, I'm pretty sure she's the smarter one out of the two of us. >> I think both of you I think both of you gonna be okay, dude. >> I'm so proud of y'all. Well done. Y'all are amazing. Absolutely amazing.

>> Yeah. If you'll just slow down a half a notch and do this right, it's going to relieve stress, anxiety. You're going to be working with be able to work on the work rather than work on the checkbook.

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not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Andrew in Michigan. I own a small business which has grown to 10 employees plus my wife and myself. One of our growing pains has been our manager who has been with us for two years. At times he shines and is excellent and proactive. Other times he does random things like borrowing small amounts from the tips, hiding small checking errors, and lying about dumb mistakes. We've had numerous conversations about these lapses in judgment. Should we fire him or give him one more chance?

Um, you know, again, I don't have enough details here to say why I would give him one more chance. It feels like we've had numerous conversations. And so numerous

at this point, um, we've not seen any behavior change. And what's what's tough is is that this is somebody who carries a lot of water. sounds like he shines um

in a lot of areas, but in an area that

is a legitimate red flag where you've talked to him multiple times and it's not changing. Yeah, I don't think one more chance is necessary unless you have

not communicated that this is in fact now the last chance. We don't have this conversation ever again. Um this is a

tough decision emotionally at times but you have to separate the emotion from maybe your fears of what would happen if this person a high performer leaves. Uh but ultimately you got to do what is right and you've felt like this is a problem. You're right. This is a character issue and it will turn into something bigger if you don't get rid of it. Yeah. the

my I mean we we coach a lot of restaurant folks in our small business program entre leadership and I'm not a restaurant person but my understanding is most restaurants um with what you're talking about here at the end of the day the tips are some some people either put them in a pool or they are you know each each server keeps their own tips for the night.

he's stealing money from your other employees.

Uh, that's not something you need to give grace to. Um, there's not a single

person that works in that restaurant that thinks this guy's awesome.

He's stealing from them and they know it. They the servers are a lot of

things, but they carry heavy trays and they know where their tips went. I can tell you that. Okay? They work their butts off. Their feet hurt. Their back hurts when they go home. They want to know where their tips went. And my manager took my tips. What do you do?

You can't really go back and go, "Well, my manager took my tips. Who you going to confront?" Uh, yeah. Let me tell you, everyone in

the place is going to cheer when you fire this guy. He's stealing their tips.

It's not real hard for me to figure out.

So, I'm a little I'm not quite as easygoing as Ken is on this. Um, you don't have to be mean to him or anything, but when someone has steals from the tips, hides small checking

errors.

Is that code for embezzlement?

What is hides small checking errors mean really? Okay. Like he doesn't know how

to do this stuff and lying about dumb mistakes. Yeah. There. Yeah. I I think you have serious integrity issues with this individual and you've got him in leadership and so um and

>> you've had enough you've had enough conversations. >> I've had enough just reading this. He's gone. I'm I'd fire him right now. I mean I'd be nice about it, but we we give people warnings around here and we we'll talk to him, help him change behaviors and do things. There's a couple things we don't. Okay. Right. >> Um you know, one of them is you steal.

>> I don't really need to renovate. I mean, I don't need to spend time rehabbing a thief. I That's one I don't need to work on because I got to look over my shoulder all the time and I'm giving them my money to work here. So, no,

you're done. The day, you know, I just I just Well, I thought I would get put it back later. You know what? Yeah, you're just gone.

Okay. And the other one was, you know, we find you know, somebody accidentally left a bag of cocaine in the you know what? No, no, we don't have a second discussion about that. You're just, you know, to start with there's a bag of cocaine and then there's accidental.

Oh my god, these two things don't go together. You're gone. I mean, this is not we we don't have we don't have a big we don't need a drug test. We already got the drug.

It's okay. Get it. You're gone. And so it's just uh No, I mean that, you know, so we but that stuff doesn't happen here because of how stringent we are on hiring.

But that's the type of stuff that we would have a zero tolerance on. And because I don't need to discuss you if you if you don't have integrity.

can talk to you about that. Give you a chance to change your ways. You know, we can coach you along and coach you up and give you give you a chance to stay. The problem is, and you pointed this out, is when you have 10 people, you are at the stage um where we call it

the second stage of business. The first stage is is treadmill operator and the next stage is pathfinder. And so when you are at the Pathfinder stage, it's um

it's like hurting cats.

Got 10 people. They're running in 10 different directions. Everything's not aligned. There's a lot of chaos. A lot of it can be that all of them are working hard. I had 10 people one time.

I remember. I mean, it's like everybody's working hard, but they're running 10 different directions. There's not a lot of alignment, not a lot of good strong cultural values in place and that kind of thing. And you do have this sense of if I fire a key person and I

have 10 people, the whole place is going to shut down. Well, let me help you.

Andrew in Michigan. The whole place is not going to shut down. Instead, they're going to cheer for Andrew in Michigan.

They're going to go, "Andrew, Andrew,

Andrew." Cuz the guy that stole our tips, Andrew got rid of him. Andrew is

the man. I would chase the I would charge the gates of hell with a water pistol for Andrew because he had my back. The guy that stole my tips. He fired him. >> That's what's gonna happen. >> Yeah. >> You're not gonna cave. You're not going to fall in. You're going to be stronger.

And the longer you do this, the more sure you'll be footed you'll be in your decision making on these things. Um and you'll make fewer and fewer mistakes on who I keep and who I give this to. But don't keep somebody cuz you think this place isn't going to run because of them. Dude, he was never the secret sauce in the first place. You are the secret sauce. That's why you have a successful concern, but now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief.

Yeah, you've enabled it by just using the language borrowing. I thought that was interesting. He's borrowing tips.

Here's what we know. If he's borrowing or stealing from his co-workers, it's only a matter of time before he borrows or steals from you, if he hasn't already. >> 100% chance. >> So, that that's the thing. >> Yeah. 100% chance his wife doesn't trust him. All right, Payton is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hey, Payton. What's up?

>> Hi, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I kind of have a little bit of a math problem for you. So, just a little bit background about me. I'm a chemical engineer. So, like I'm trying to figure out the best way that this makes sense to do. So, I currently have gone from a job that was paying me $80,000 a year to a job that's paying me 104 a year.

Awesome. plus com plus plus plus plus commission. So I can get up to 40 to 60

grand of commission at the end of the year if I perform well in this job.

>> Okay. >> And so my problem is is that I'm working

on your debt snowball method. So I'm in baby step number two. Um I cut down my

>> I'm a little short on time. Go straight to your question, honey. >> Yeah. So, this straight to the question point is that um I'm going from a company that had a company car to not a car that you can get into this program.

But the problem is is that the car to be

qualified for the program is um has to be a new car to four years in age under 50,000 miles and has to be a hybrid to qualify for the program. >> I'll pass. >> But they'll re Okay.

>> It's not it's not a raise. the amount of money they're going to give you will not cover the loss in value >> because you're driving an expensive car into the dirt because you're putting a lot of miles on it. You're doing sales calls.

>> Okay? >> So, you're going to put you're going to put so many miles on the car, you're going to you're going to take a 40 or $50,000 car and you're going to make it worth 10 every year.

And you cannot absorb that with the amount of money that they're offering you. That's why they don't do company cars. They trick you into taking the bite. It's a pay cut. It's not an it's not a benefit. Don't take it. Just drive whatever you want to drive and forget it and drive something cheap because you're ruining whatever you drive.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual amazing Amazing Relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the show

that is a runaway hit on Ramsay Networks. It's called Front Row Seat, where he does long form interviews with highly successful and famous people to get the success principles from them that help you live a better life. You'll love it. Chuck is with us in Pittsburgh.

Hey, Chuck. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Thanks Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

Hey, uh been following the baby steps for a decade and thank you so much. It's It's been so good for my family. It's helped our marriage. It's just made putting three kids through college um a

lot simpler. >> Well, way to go. >> My question was >> Oh, thank you. My question is for Ken.

Ken, what what are the the baby steps for somebody that's looking to move out

of a a 32-year career into something that he can do into his twilight?

Uh get clear is the first step. Second step is get qualified. Third step is get connected. Fourth is get started. Then we get promoted and ultimately into what we think is the dream job on in this new path. So that's the quick answer. Do you know what you want to move into or are you trying to figure that out?

>> That that's what I'm trying to figure out. >> Okay. Well, we've got a tool for you that'll make this a little easier uh on the phone. I'm going to give you the uh book Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It's the get clear career assessment.

And there's three wires that every human has. Talent is one wire. That's simply what you're really good at doing. And that's you're born with that. And then through education and experience, we hone that ball of clay of talent into

sharpened skills or useful things like a bowl or or a cup. So talent is what we want to start with and that gives us the clues as to where we can go. The next

two wires, one is passion, and that just means what work do I love to do? I look forward to it. When I'm in the middle of it, I lose track of time. And then the third wire is all about motivation. And

that's we call it mission. In other words, what results do I want my work to

create? What do I want to contribute to the world? So, it looks like this in a simple sentence. If I use what I do best to do what I love to produce results that matter to me, I am in fact on purpose and I'm doing meaningful work and the money is going to be the best possible option because of those factors. So, you know, I'll put you on

the spot. I'm going to give you that assessment and and you take about 18 minutes. It's going to really read your mail. It'll make specific suggestions to you. But I want to boil the world of work down into four buckets.

people work, idea work, process work,

and object work. Object work would be something where I'm working with my hands. Maybe I'm a carpenter, maybe I'm a plumber. And so in the world of work, where do you think your greatest talent is knowing what you know about yourself being 56? Where what area of work?

People work, idea work, process work, or object work?

>> Definitely people work. That's been my whole whole life. >> Okay, great. So, if you allow yourself

to wonder, and I know you have, and I'm putting you on the spot, not for you to be locked into this, but if you could go a direction tomorrow and you knew you couldn't fail, and we just tried it for 90 days, what would you try tomorrow?

>> Well, I've got a face for radio, Ken, so I'd have to say, uh, I I did some radio

years and year, well, 30 years ago at KDK in Pittsburgh long time ago. and uh

but couldn't make it into a career and but I kind of miss it you know. >> Okay. So you would be communicating if we take radio out you would be doing some type of work that's heavy communication and that involves people.

Correct.

>> Correct. >> And you like the pressure of communicating that doesn't freak you out. You kind of enjoy it. A little bit of butterfly but you really enjoy it.

>> Love the deadlines. You know, hey we're we're starting in 321. You know that kind of thing. >> All right. So let me let me ask you this. What do you make right now? What have you been doing and what do you make?

>> Well, I've been in sales for 32 years and uh been blessed to be in over six,

you know, six digits. >> Okay, great. Now, this is >> 100 to 150 depending on the market.

>> Okay, so here's what I know about you.

So, you're very good communicator because you've been very successful in sales and a good salesperson knows how to truly communicate. Not just talk, but read people, listen for what's below the So, you've got a lot of experience here.

Now, I'm going to be very honest with you. Radio is not an industry where there's a ton of opportunity because of the nature of podcasting and YouTube and and the the cultures listening habits.

There's just not a whole lot of radio opportunity. So, then you go, okay, what is it that I love about the radio piece?

And and it's I like communicating something that I believe will help people. Is that a fair highlevel statement?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great. So, as you begin to take the assessment, you get your results, you're going to start to ideulate. And here's three questions that you will answer. And if you got something to write with, write them down. If not, go back and listen to this. Three very simple questions that'll bring you an idea or two or five. Who are the people I most want to help?

What problem or desire do they have?

And then what solutions plural

to the problem or desire that I just outlined do I most get excited about?

What you're going to find if you wrestle with that day in and day out, your mind and heart will start to come together and you'll begin to throw things out.

And so you are going to communicate.

It's people work. We know it's people, people, people. Uh there might be a little bit of idea work involved here.

Um, and so if you can begin to figure out who are those people I want to help at this stage of my life a and what prom or desire is is jumping out at me and then how does the marketplace address that with my skill set? And so that's the exercise for you in the days ahead.

But the assessment that we're going to give you is is going to give you a very detailed report. I want you to read it and I want you to then answer those three questions. And what you're going to find is you'll see multiple opportunities that you never saw before.

But you got to be able to understand what it is that I'm looking for.

>> And I want you to pan back further than

just the two things, sales and radio.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Those were those were very nuanced

possible uses of everything Ken's talking about. And there's a lot of different ways >> to do what you're doing. Um, and I I'll

just the, you know, I'll give you an example of that. I was being interviewed the other day by a trade publication in the broadcast world and they said how has Ramsay u prospered and survived

um you know satellite radio the internet coming on with podcasts now used to be streaming in the old days and um and now

with the advent of you know the power of YouTube as our shows and what I said was

and what I want you to think this way is we are platform agnostic we don't care Mhm.

>> where what medium or media this message

goes out on. If it goes out on Instagram or Tic Tac or anything, we don't care.

Um it's fine. We're fine with any of it.

Okay? But um if I said instead, I'm a

talk radio guy.

I'm not doing podcast and I'm not going to be on YouTube. That's for cats chasing lasers and tic tacs owned by the communists. I'm not doing that. If I said that, which I'm kind of tempted to at times, okay, if I said that and I I held myself to being only a talk radio guy, I would have 8 million listeners a week instead of 40.

So, that would be stupid, narrow-minded

of me to focus on one thing. Instead, I'm saying, how many different ways in a

huge buffet can we apply the delivery of

this message? In your case, their message is your talent. How can I How can I put myself out there? How many different ways can I put myself out there? Be platform agnostic. Hang on, we're going to send you a copy of both books. One that has the clear path, that's paycheck to purpose, and the uh assessment as well.

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Buying or selling a home these days with all the drama is a big deal and the clickbait headlines, all the garbage that's out there on social media and all the broke friends that have an opinion about you buying a house. Let me help you with the drama. How you cut through drama? Facts.

When drama or trauma is occurring, facts are your friends. Facts will talk you off the ledge. Facts will take you and put you in a cold shower and get you over a buying fever. Facts will tell you this is what I need to do and this is smart thing to do. Facts are facts and you need some facts in the middle of all this. So what we've done is we built out a full website called the US housing market trends and you can jump on there

any day and see what exactly is happening with the real estate world.

And uh like for instance, the 15-year fixed rate is still steady at 5.95,

just under 6%. That's a fact.

Hadn't moved in a while, by the way.

That is also a fact. The median house

price is still 441,000 in America today. It has gone up a little bit every month. The inventory right now is a,82 a,82,520 homes on the market that today.

And uh that's the highest inventory rate since 2019.

However, demand is higher than it has been. And so that is why house prices have not dropped. High interest rates, high inventory would normally mean you'd see house prices come down. Has not happened because demand is higher than inventory. When demand is higher than supply, economics tells us prices go up.

When more people want a Beanie Baby there are Beanie Babies, the price of Beanie Babies go up. That's how it works. Okay. Um, some of you are old enough to get the reference, some of you weren't born yet, but there we go. So, anyway, that that's the thing. Go to ramseolutions.commarket and we'll catch you up to date. Andrew is with us in New York. Hi, Andrew.

Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Hi Dave and Ken. It's uh really cool to talk to you guys. I've been a big fan for years. >> Well, thank you. What's up?

Uh so uh I have a situation that I've

been discussing with my dad and my sister and I thought it might be something you'd uh have some suggestions on. Um my dad set up a college savings

account, 529 accounts for my twins who were born in 2010. These were his first

grandchildren and he was working at the time so he was able to fund the accounts for a few years. They've grown to a total of about $100,000, half of which he estimates he contributed.

>> Wow. >> He stopped he stopped working shortly after that and was unable to start additional counts later when I had additional children and my sister had a child. He hadn't really thought about them since. Um but now a question of

fairness has arisen at least between my sister and me. He only recently learned from an elder care attorney that accounts like this can be shared or split among other children. And he's now wondering if he should draw from his

limited retirement savings to start an

account for my sister's child or portion off some of the savings from the twins accounts. Uh, I know that it's his money to do with as he pleases and I'd want my

nephew to receive something as well, but my >> So, how much does your dad have in retirement?

>> Uh, I I don't know exactly how much he

has, but you know, he has enough that he's >> Well, I mean, what 300,000? 5 million.

What's he got in there? >> No, I think something like uh three or 400,000. >> Okay, cool. And is is he is your mom gone?

Uh, they are separated. They're separate. Divorced. >> Divorced. Okay. All right. And he is now retired. What how old is he?

>> He's 77. >> Okay. What's he seeing an elder care return elder care attorney about?

>> Uh, he was looking into protecting the

house in case something happened to him and he needed to go into uh care or

something. >> Okay. That's a waste of money, by the way.

>> Okay. >> I can help you with that. we could use that money to fund the fund the kids college. >> Um, >> okay. >> So, I'm not against some elder care situations, but here's the situation.

>> There's only two kinds of nursing homes.

Ones you pay for are ones you go into when you're on welfare.

Welfare is Medicaid.

It's for poor people. Your dad's not poor people.

Okay. >> Okay. He needs to quit trying to hide assets using an elder care attorney so he can go on welfare.

You don't want him and he doesn't want to be in a welfare Medicaid nursing home. Not if I got 300 grand in the bank. That ain't where I'm staying.

Okay. >> Okay. >> You know, if I got 300 grand in the bank, I don't want to live in subsidized housing. Okay.

>> Okay. >> You catching on my drift here? That's what he's That's where this guy's leading him, and he doesn't need to be leading him this way. It's a bad plan.

his house is not protected. It's protected only if he goes on welfare.

And so don't don't don't try to design a life so that you can go on welfare after working your whole life and you got 300k. That does inter it's a sidebar,

but it's not because that that leaves you then in a situation so that these kids How old is your uh your sister's kid?

>> He's seven.

>> Okay. So, he's got time for money to

grow. And my twins are 15.

>> So, your dad's 300K is invested.

>> Yes. >> And um here's what I would do if I were

your dad. Okay. I'm 64, 65 almost. Okay.

Here's what I would do if I were him. If he li doesn't live until these kids go to college, 10 years. Okay. If he if he lives to 87,

we'll do something different. But if he doesn't live, leave enough specifically in the will for the three kids, yours and Oh, there's only two kids. Your your one kid didn't get money and your sister's one kid didn't get money, right?

>> I have two additional.

>> Okay. So, leave enough in the will for your two that were not the twins that have zero. The sister's kid who doesn't have anything that has zero to play catchup and leave the twins out of that portion of the will.

>> So, make it right upon death.

and then split up whatever's left between you and your sister. Okay? But he can make it right upon death. In the meantime, he's got 300K growing and it'll be 600K if he leaves it alone in

seven more years and it's in good mutual funds. Okay. So, it'll be plenty of money to send these kids to school.

That's if he dies before they go to school. How old are your two that we're

talking about >> that don't have money? Younger >> that don't have money? >> Uh, they're 13 and seven.

13.

>> Yes. 13 and seven.

>> Okay. So, seven years. If he doesn't die, if he dies anytime the next seven years, 13-year-old gets made whole and

the seven-year-old gets made whole. The twins are obviously older than 13. And then your sister's seven-year-old gets made whole upon death. That's what I would do if I were him in my will. Then,

if he doesn't die when they get ready to

go to college, I'm just going to write checks.

M okay. >> Simple. I don't have to fund a 529. I'll

just write checks out of my wealth until

I equal and do a little math and you figure out you know what it what is equal at that point. But we've got at least five years, four years, 5 years before yours is in school and you know up to 10 before the other two are in school. And then he's going to be writing some checks out of his then half million or whatever. And you know if he

puts in some similar amount plus growth

cuz he got the growth. Okay, if he gives you 25K today instead of 10 years from now, he's going to get all the growth on the 25. So he could let's call that 50. Okay. So he could put in 50 for a future kid and it'd be the same as 25 was back then.

You follow me? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. So, just have his financial planner, not his elder lawyer, do the calculation and and just run that out and go, "Okay, if I'm alive, >> I'm going to take care of the 13-year-old to this equation cuz that equals 25K." >> Mhm. >> Back then. >> Okay. Um, and how old are the twins, by the way? >> They're 15. >> Okay. All right. So, and then they get nothing. and they've already got theirs in either scenario.

>> Unless he wants to leave the overage above college to the kids and not to you and your sister, but otherwise the twins don't get anymore. They've already gotten theirs and so just lay it all out like that and that'll be fine. Ken, I'm glad you had input on that. >> Well, I was going to say, Dave, there you had several holes there that I was going to fill and then you just tied it all up there at the end. So, I don't have anything to add.

>> Sorry about that.

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in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Michael and Rosalie are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. >> Wonderful. Welcome. Where do you guys live? >> Buffalo, New York. >> Oh, cool. Welcome to Nashville.

>> Thank you. >> And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> About 70,000. >> Awesome. And how long did that take you?

>> Uh, just over 5 years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Uh, 100 to 150.

>> Okay. All right. And what kind of debt was the 70? Well, to borrow your phrase, the paid off for mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as our status symbol of choice. >> Got a paid for house, baby. I love it.

Congratulations. Well done. Very well done. What do you all do for a living?

>> So, Rosley was an interior design and now has the hardest of jobs, a stay-at-home mom and I'm in financial analysis and a side business as a financial coach. And a special thank you to your your team, an unbelievably talented team of Ramsey coaches you have. >> Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you being here. Very cool.

How's it feel, guys, to have the house paid off. >> Feels really good. >> I bet. >> I bet. That's amazing. So, what a goal.

And five years. You So, you you got everything else paid off and then you work just the slow plan. Works four, five, and six like you're supposed to.

Yep. >> And paid off the house gradually. How old are you? >> I'm 36. >> 44. >> And a paid for house. What's the house worth? >> About We bought it for about 200. It's worth about 300 now. >> All right. Very cool. Good for you guys.

And how much have you guys built up in your nest eggs and your retirement and so forth? >> Uh, we'd rather not say, but in the last 5 years since we've worked the plan between investing more and the market growth, it's over doubled in that five years. >> All right. Well, very good. Good. So, it smells like maybe your baby steps millionaires already. I'm proud of you.

I'm just going to go with that. I'm going to pretend like I know that. Okay.

Way to go, y'all. I'm proud of you at 36 and 44 years old. So, give us your perspective on why after getting out of debt and walking through the baby steps, you went, "All right, yeah, let's go ahead and and let's keep on going. Let's keep being disciplined and let's pay the house off." Why? For somebody who's wondering, what's the reason for that?

What is your why? >> Yeah. So, we entered marriage completely debtree. We had debt before marriage, but we entered it debtree. Um, but you I

stumbled across the Ramsay show uh back in 2020 and started watching YouTube highlights and watching the show. And so Dave, I'm a >> Start driving Rosalie crazy >> probably. Yes. Um I I have an accounting degree and a CPA license.

So of course when it comes to personal finance before finding your show, I knew almost nothing. >> Yeah. >> So I my parents did teach me to live on less than you make. So I followed that and married well because Rosley lived on less than she made also.

Uh but quickly from watching your show realized there are a lot of blind spots and a lot of things we're missing. We were not saving 15% for retirement. We were tracking our expenses instead of budgeting. And there's a huge difference between those two.

our daughter Lily was on the way. We didn't have a will. We didn't have life insurance. So there were just a lot of blind spots we were missing. So we had a good foundation. But finding your show developed an actual process that we could follow. >> Yeah. And when you check all those boxes, the weird thing is the result is peace. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. You can just relax. House is paid for. We've got retirement. Got a will.

We've got uh you know, we've got life insurance. We're we're you know we're rocking. You got you got the system down. You get in the groove and there's a chance that you can just let you can just breathe then and and it really is financial peace. Two words that don't go together like airline service, you know.

It's like pretty cool guys. I'm so proud of y'all. >> Thank you. >> What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

>> Well, so it's it's working together.

It's communicating. It's the budget.

It's um being intentional. All of those things are are very very critical. I know for us with having kids, that's our main motivation is our kids, our generational wealth, um setting them up for life. >> Yeah. >> Um that's our huge driver. So, I mean for us with kids, that's what we focus.

>> It's your why. Yeah. It's it's your why.

It's your driver. Yeah. >> You got to have that. And because the other stuff is too weird to do if you don't have a real reason.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. We decided to attack steps five and six. Obviously doing step four, too, but five and six aggressively to get them both done.

So, we frontloaded their 529 accounts. So, um, before they even got into kindergarten, they're they're all set with their 529s that what grows should cover at least a public university and then they can decide from there if they're going to work or get scholarships for anything beyond that. But they'll they'll get that by uh not taking on any college debt. So, that was our goal that we can get them to have no debt other than a mortgage for their entire lives that this this is going to be their last recollection of debt is being on the debtree stage here.

>> Almost eight years this October.

>> Okay. And you started on the house 5 years ago. So it sounds like you started very early in the marriage on this whole thing. >> Yeah, we bought the house right as we got married. So we it was a total of under eight years that we paid the house off. It was it was 5 years since we got Yeah. got very serious on the Ramsey plan. >> Yeah. So Rosalie, when you first met

Michael or when he first started talking about all this stuff, did he drive you crazy with it?

>> I'm used to it because this is kind of his background. He's into finances and this is, you know, this is his passion >> and um you know, this is kind of his wheelhouse. So, this wasn't anything new for me. And um I wasn't surprised when he found you and brought all this up and wanted to, you know, go on this plan and attack it.

I was right with him cuz like I said, the kids and everything. I know I drive him crazy because with being in a tier design background, I'm always looking at stuff around the house. So, that drives him crazy. So, we always have to communicate about >> That's fair.

That's fair. >> Things that, you know, I might want to do to the house or um you know, what's going on.

So, I wasn't surprised. And now you now you can. >> Now you can do whatever you want to. >> Well, don't tell him that.

>> Well, maybe maybe maybe I need to. I don't know. What does live and give like no one else look like for you guys going forward? Have you began to dream and discuss what that could look like?

>> 100%. And honestly, on the car ride over uh down here, we were definitely talking about how we can now uh give and um how

we can be more generous with um our giving and to our church and things like that. That's definitely been a conversation more and more and more now that um we don't have the mortgage hanging over our head.

>> Yeah. What's the um big nice thing you're going to do for yourselves?

>> Um I don't know. We don't have an answer to that one. >> I think you know >> live like no one else or later you can live like no one else. Yeah. >> I don't know if we have an answer to that one. You know we're still trying to get our cars through two more winters.

So and there are 13 and 11. So we're >> I think you need some cars. Yeah. Time to get some cars. Don't have any house payment. Don't have any debt. Yeah, just, you know, now you can breathe a little, y'all. I mean, it's it's good to do that. And um and and that won't be wasteful and that won't be irresponsible or anything else. And so it's it's actually why you did all of this, that and those two beautiful kiddos. So very, very cool. All right, bring them up.

Let's meet them and names and ages. Come on up, kiddos. >> Do do we have time for a quick story? >> Sure.

>> So very appropriate, Ken, that you're on the show today. So I I called you five years ago debating whether I should take financial coach master training as our our daughter was on the way and I you know I asked you I said is this a good thing to do and you kept saying ask your wife and I said well everybody's done that I'm calling the expert but right before we got off the call you gave me two words you said do something and those two words were huge and they're huge for everybody in finances in faith in fitness whatever it might be um and then on the way here we stopped at a rest stop in Kentucky and I saw a US Army veteran uh on his uh jacket and I said to Thank you for your service and these are the true heroes.

And his response was, you're worth it. And so I just want to combine those two thoughts today. Do something because you're worth it and because your family's worth it. So combine those two thoughts for all your listeners today.

I think that's a really important message to hear. >> Amen. Amen. Thanks for stuff.

kiddos names and ages again.

>> James is six and Lillian is four.

>> All right, guys. You look like you've been practicing a debtree scream. I think you're ready. All right, Michael and Roselie, James and Lillian, 70,000

paid off in 5 years. House and everything making 1 to 150. Count it

down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1

They are into it.

>> Yeah, >> those kids are completely changed. Their lives are changed before they were born and they didn't even know it. Pretty incredible. This is what happens when you change your family tree. And at 36 and 44, you put yourself in a position of baby steps millionaire. You've got your house paid off, everything. And you make it 100 and a half. And you can do anything you want to then the rest of your life. You've got you've got the uh the thumb of society off of your neck.

You don't have City Bank

anywhere in your vocabulary. Oh god, that's good to be of. Yeah. You don't have American excess anywhere in your vocabulary. That's good to be rid of.

Wow. Way to go, guys. What great What a great power couple. Excellent.

[Music]

Heat. [Music]

Hey, Heat.

Our

[Music] scripture of the day, Job 22:21. Submit to God and be at peace with him. In this

way, prosperity will come to you.

In other words, that is prosperity.

Peace, the peace that passes understanding.

Winston Churchill said, "For a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." Yeah. And u another famous

English leader, Margaret Thatcher said, "Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money." >> Yeah, agreed. Yeah, that's that's a problem.

Math thing. It's a math thing. Reggie's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hey, Reggie. What's up?

Hey Dave, Ken, pleasure talking to you guys. >> You too. How can we help? >> I actually uh I came across your course about 13 years ago in high school and I was lucky enough to take it and I've been an avid listener uh listener ever since. So, thank you. >> It's been quite life-changing. >> Thank you. >> Of course. Um so, kind of my dilemma is

is I own two bakeries and I co-own one

of them and one of them had to close uh

briefly here due to the lack of employees. and the other one is quite successful and in you know 2027 we're forecasting a

million plus. Um, so my question is, is

given my full-time employment and other

businesses I have on the side,

and is it a smart idea to try to pump a little more money into that other bakery just to make some rudimentary upgrades, changes, you know, new stuff, uh, just to kind of try to revive that and gain back the trust in the community?

>> So, a couple questions here before we dive in. is the one that's struggling that you had to temporarily shut down. Is that the one you co-own or the one that you're the sole owner?

>> Uh soul owner. >> Okay. And you you said to us that the

problem you identified was not being able to get employees. And so then you presented another solution. So what what what is the big problem?

Well, the problem is was the lack. It's

an underdeveloped area and it's being developed as we speak in terms of about a thousand houses within four square miles. So, it took me about 8 months to

really turn >> underdeveloped. You mean it was a bad neighborhood that's coming back.

>> Uh, rural. It's rural.

>> Oh, it's rural. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. No, you're I just didn't understand. It's my fault. Okay.

>> All right. So, it's a it's a it's way out of town, but it but town has come to it.

>> Correct. >> It's kind of the the city is creeping out there to it.

>> Correct. >> And can you hold on long enough for the city to get there?

>> Well, that's uh that's my concern because I would be paying like I'm paying now currently out of my uh uh

career salary, you know, to keep everything open and getting the rent paid and stuff to that effect.

>> Mhm. All right. So you said you're tempor so you temporarily shut it down.

My question then is can you keep it shut down until the market gets to the point

that it needs to. In other words, can you ramp it back up at a later date?

>> I I can't I really have a bad feeling about borrowing money. I'm 100% >> I wasn't asking. No, >> that wasn't a part of the scenario. Yeah. He just said if you don't reopen it, what are your costs and can you maintain those easier than you can maintain feeding it? >> Yeah.

>> Um I would not be able to long term. So

about a year. >> So what is the profit on the million dollar back home at the other bakery on the million dollars on it? What's your net profit?

>> So on the million dollars that we're forecasting in next year profit will be about $ 250.

>> Okay. Which is split two ways. And you have a full-time job on top of this.

That is correct. >> And you make quad at your full-time job.

>> So, I am a pipe apprentice and this is

my last year. So, right now I'm sitting at about 70. >> And you'll go to what after you finish up? >> It'll go what?

>> It'll it'll go to about 95.

>> Okay. All right. >> And that's without any overtime or anything. >> And does your does your wife work outside the home, sir?

>> I am not married. >> You're not married? Okay, that's easy. Okay. All right. So, let's just reverse engineer the other bakery that you singularly own. The point is you got to

the party early and there's no people.

That's what you told me, right? You you you built out on the edge of a growth ring and um you thought it was going to

happen faster or that the current people there were going to be able to support you and they're not able to. It doesn't there's not enough population currently to support the business. I think you said >> Mhm. Well, there is, but the problem is is it's not going to be supported staff-wise. I mean, I have people that pop up here and there, but I think my core demographic of people that I'm waiting on is still up and coming >> to work as workers, not as customers.

>> Well, work. >> If you had it fully staffed, would it If you had it fully staffed, would it be profitable?

>> Uh, yes, sir.

>> Okay. So staffing is your problem, not renovation.

>> Correct. I'm saying, >> so no, I'm not going to spend money renovating it until I get it staffed.

Why wouldn't you just spend all of your effort staffing it or close it? One of the two.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. It is um between the

population that's growing and the actual

uh bathing problem itself, it does cost a arm and a leg to do that. I mean, I I've sustained it short term, but the only problem is is to really be in the

green. One, population would need to increase the customer base. It would be >> You've talked yourself into closing it.

Every sentence you've said has told me that. >> And I think that's obvious. There's not a simple solution to your staffing problem. >> But you're done. You Every sentence you bring up is negative about closing it.

You've lost hope that it's going to work. So, it's done. You need to close it. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And you know more about it than I do.

And but every what you don't even realize it, but you're tell you're telegraphing everything in every sentence you're using is all about how it can't be done. It can't be done. I'm too early. There's this problem, that problem. And you know, you've given up hope that the problems can be solved in time before you go broke doing it. And um so I I wouldn't want the stress. I just close it. Have you got a lease?

>> It is a lease. Yes. And it uh that runs

out in January. >> Oh, praise God. Okay. So you own all the equipment?

Yes, sir. >> Debtree.

>> Debtree. >> Great. Put it in the garage.

>> So, all you got all you got is a lease till January and you're out of business.

That's awesomeness. And next time you get ready to start now, you'll be wiser when you open your next one someday.

You'll know that the staffing as well as the customer base has to be there before you can open it. And it has to be a the location cannot be a risk. The location has to be a no-brainer. You took a risk location on a business that is um that

location is everything.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Anything in food service world, location, location, and location.

>> I was a little early to the party.

>> Yeah, you were. You got there before the people did. Yeah.

>> So, I'm sorry, man. So, hopefully you haven't lost a lot. Um I've learned a lot. So, the ru and the here's what I did. What Ken and I both were doing listening to you. Um, we use Henry

Cloud's book, and Henry's a friend, but we've been using this book for a long, long time, called Necessary Endings.

When you lose hope with all logic and

sound wisdom that something is going to get better, it needs to end.

And that is a relationship, it's a job,

it's a marriage, it's a business, it's a what? An

investment. When you lose hope that it's going to get better, then it requires a painful and emotional necessary ending.

>> Yeah. And Reggie, in this case, really,

really proud of you for doing this debt-free. Uh I love that you've been working on a trade. You've been apprenticing. You're about ready to see tremendous increase financially. You're making money in the other one. So, you learned a lesson here. This is one of those our dear friend John Maxwell wrote a book years ago called Failing Forward.

Then he retitled it, "Sometimes you win, sometimes you >> learn." And most people say lose. And in this case, I want to encourage you.

>> Uh, you learned here. You didn't lose.

Uh, you learned something. You're going to come out of this thing without being in big-time financial trouble. Chalk this up to great experience. I learned a lot here, but man, I've set myself up beautifully for the future.

So, I applaud you for being debtree and being really smart here. Even though you made a mistake here, this is not something to be ashamed of. Yeah. It was an experiment.

>> That's right. >> Yeah. It's a It's not a failure. It's an experiment.

>> Yeah. >> And the way you learn from experiments is you fail and you form a new hypothesis.

Game on. Welcome to business. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

Heat. [Applause] [Music]

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## 128. Quiet The Chaos And Solve For Peace | January 16, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common [music] sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] studio, this is the Ramsey show. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

Breaking news, folks. It's rare that I ever get to do breaking news and I love breaking news. We're going to get to the calls, but I got to tell you, I was just informed not very long ago, just a couple of hours ago that I'm sitting next to not just the fabulous Jade Warshaw, as I am want to introduce you,

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. but the best-selling author, Jade

Warshaw. The new book, What No One Tells You About Money, a national bestseller.

We're talking about an unbelievable out of the gate performance. We're talking about all books out there, and she's at the top of the list. Congratulations, my friend. >> Thank you, my friend. I appreciate that.

>> Just the the beginning of this book and its impact is being celebrated today, but I wanted to say congratulations. I know you, the audience, are very happy.

For those of you that supported this amazing message that's going to actually help you, thank you. Yes. So, you ready to roll? I was hoping you had like a >> roast or some a a drink or something, a bourbon or something.

I don't I have a I have a Well, there's a lady in the lobby and in her What is that, lemonade? >> [laughter] >> It's Minute Maid lemonade. Sure. I will take an honorary swig of it.

>> Oh, yes, we will. Let's go to Megan who's joining us in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Hi, guys. I um I'm going through some

changes. You know, my income is drastically Well, my family's income is drastically changing. What's happened?

Um basically, my spouse is going away

for some time. You know, we're unsure of that timeline, maybe 2 to 10 years. None of that's finalized, but I'm trying to get, you know, ahead basically with >> Going Going away for some time, I just don't want to assume anything, but I think you mean >> He's going to jail.

Yes. Oh. Yes, unfortunately. I I don't

want to get into >> Sure. That's fine. Totally get it. Just wanted to make sure we understood what you're dealing with. Tell us again the timeline.

Maybe two, maybe up to 10 years. And And

when And when? >> When? Um well, he's in um the jail right now.

And but you know, it's He just got was arrested last week. So, it's very early.

Um so, we're just I'm just trying to get ahead so I don't get behind. [laughter] Yeah, tell us >> Really. Okay. Tell us what the financial impact will be as relates to losing his salary.

So, um you know, he owns a lawn care landscaping business. You know, he We also have three rental homes that bring in income and he's the handyman for those and for those rentals.

>> Okay. Um so, he's usually brings in, you know, between 10 and 15,000 dollars a month. Okay.

What about you? Do you work at all? I I work full-time and I bring in um about 4,000 a month after, you know, taxes and insurance. Okay. Are there children?

We have two children, yes. 11 and 17.

The 17-year-old's in her senior year right now. They both go to private school. >> Crazy question.

Yeah. Is the lawn care landscaping business Is it thriving?

He does good on it. Like, yeah, he can

He can do good at it. Yeah. >> I another So, here's where I'm going here and I'm not I don't want to get too in the weeds here, but cuz all of this is coming at you like a tornado.

Um I know you have a lot going on, but if I'm sitting in your shoes, I'm trying to figure out with him

how you can keep that business going.

Does he have people that work for him or is he doing all the work?

He does a majority of the work. He has,

you know, all the equipment and things that I'm so not involved with.

>> understand that. Um I've never really, you know, wanted to be involved. You know, I wanted to keep our jobs separate, you know, as a married couple.

>> Um so, you know, not to mix that. And yes, his Yes, I would I'd be >> that I could carry on with that, but he right now he has one employee cuz it's the winter. So, you know, not a lot of things are going on during the winter, but yes, he does the majority of the work. I'd be wondering if there's a secondary person you could bring on to take his place. >> yeah. And the deal is you're getting the

benefit of having basically my book of business.

Um and so, we're splitting the profits in some way. And so, instead of losing out on 15,000 dollars a month, maybe you're only missing out on five or six thousand dollars a month. Do you see what I'm saying? And so, essentially, there's a either maybe a 50/50 split or something there.

Um that's what I'd be looking to do because you would not want this to go down the drain simply because, >> you know, And I And And And again, I don't want to stay locked in on this, but this is actually relevant to why you called. If I'm you and And Jade gave you one option, bringing somebody in as kind of a quasi, feels like a partner is what you were suggesting. I'm suggesting you talk to your husband, and this is like legal pad simple, right?

these lawns versus who does the accounting?" I would get a brain dump from him and and talk to him as though this is possible cuz I think it's possible. And I would go the route of trying first to just get a body, a guy

who needs a good paying job, who likes outdoor work, could be even a young sharp Mhm. uh high school kid who's graduating, he doesn't want to go to college, wants to go in this field. You got to tell you what, here's my situation. I need somebody that I can count on, and here's what you're going to do.

I'm going to pay you really well, and you're going to learn this business for yourself. Now, in what you would have to do is is step in and make sure that if your husband was doing the accounting, that maybe you hire a bookkeeper. But again, we're talking about a very small expense >> Mhm. to take maybe what he has been doing that's not in the field and running the business side of it and see if you can replace it.

I think it's worth kicking the tires. I think it's worth a really detailed conversation with your husband to see if we can keep this thing going.

that's a pretty healthy little business.

And my gosh, uh I think it's worth trying.

Okay. Okay. Um yeah, I mean, I would

definitely could um put out some ads for

maybe a new worker. Um I can get with the guy that's working for him right now and definitely Yeah, maybe we'll do that. >> support system in like community, whether it be church or neighbors or family?

Um I have a I have a few close ones,

yeah. And they're And they're standing with you. They're not uh deserting you in this crazy thing you're doing.

>> As far as right now, no, nobody's deserting me. Yeah. >> start. I wouldn't do ads right away. I I think you need people who are going, "Hey, I am I totally am with you. I see where you are. Uh I understand what's going on, and we're going to rally to try to help you with this plan." Okay. We want to try to keep this income going. But Jade, let's transition to worst-case scenario

if all of this income goes away. Well, the first thing we need to see is like how secure of a position are you in? I mean, do you guys have a bunch of debt?

Do you have Tell us more about your kind of month-to-month situation.

So, yeah, the only debt that we have um

so, our personal home um our mortgage is

about 4,000 a month.

>> Mhm. Um we owe about 260 left on that.

>> Mhm. Um one of the rental The other one rental house is um mortgaged and we owe about 140 on that

one. >> You know, I'd be looking to simplify this if I were you. If you I want you to go home. I want you to write out all of your debts, consumer debt, and then I want you to consider it might be worth it to offload one of these mortgages, take the equity and pay off all of your consumer debt cuz you want [music] your expenses as low as possible going in, especially with the changes coming possibly [music] to his income.

Hang on the line.

>> [music]

>> You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance. It's usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.

So, you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can, too.

Visit zander.com for instant online quotes, or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> All right, let's go to Kay, who's joining us in Salt Lake City. Kay, how can we help today?

Hi. Um thank you for your help. So, I have a 19-year-old at home. Um he's he's

working, and um his hours have been reduced recently, but um I feel like his

his finances have become my problem. So, a few months ago, he had a paid-off car,

everything was great, no debt. And next thing you know, he goes and trades that vehicle in for a a 2018 BMW.

Um insurance, of course, is now being deducted from my account because I was trying to help him.

Um so, he the plan was for him to give me that money every month. Um that didn't happen

all the way through this last week. He only gave me a portion of it. Um one of the parts on his car went out, so of course, I came in trying to help him and paid for the part, which was not cheap,

and um and kind of a few things um of that sort with the vehicle. Um he wasn't able to pay the registration the first couple of months, so it just kind of been piling up, and um I'm just

trying to figure out how do I put my foot down? Where do I draw the line? And I'm at the point where I I've I've come

to the point to ask him to move out to his dad's house um because I feel like

there's always something with that where I'm coming in to save him, and But that's Hold on a second. I'm going to jump in. I'm going to jump in. I I've heard you say, "Of course." Uh-huh.

twice Uh-huh. when you described that you swooped in and tried to help.

And now, you're saying, "I'm at the point where I want to send him to his father's." And I'm going to tell you something.

This isn't this kid's fault. And sending him to live with his father isn't going to solve the problem. And I'm on your team, Kay, but the problem is you. Yeah, you're you're acting like this is just happening to you. You asked us, "How do I put my foot down?" And here's my answer. Put it down. Stomp it.

>> You've actually never put your foot down. It's like hovering all the time, and he knows it, by the way. I'd park the car um if it were me, and um

I I just think you have to stop. Like, you're so worried about something. So, there's fear underneath why you won't put your foot down. So, the technical answer to how do you put your foot down is is determine what is this thing you're so afraid of happening and keeps you from putting your foot down. That's the simple answer. So, what is it?

Um well, is [clears throat] I I'm trying to not have him make the same mistakes I did when I was younger, and you know, screw up his credit score, and and there's just so many But >> things of like getting into so much debt >> Did you learn anything from those big mistakes? I did. There you go. Wait a second. Wait, tell me. How is it that you learn from those big mistakes?

Well, I was I was on the side of him not getting this loan. I was advising him to save his money. >> No, you didn't answer my question. >> What Ken is asking you is the mistakes that you made, what did you learn from them? When you were his age, what did you learn?

Well, I I don't know how to answer that. >> Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Here's what we're getting at. What we're getting at is mistakes are necessary. That's how we

learn. You learn by touching a hot stove. Oh, don't touch that. You learn by trying to you know, do the things that you're not supposed to do, and then you learn what you should do. That's the process. That is the process of maturing. You cannot keep your son If you seek to keep your son from making mistakes, you are robbing him from the opportunity to learn. Period.

Yeah, and I agree, and that's why I'm I want to I'm I want to put my foot down.

I just don't know how far is too far is You're not even close to too far.

You're not even close.

Well, I Yeah, you know what, though? I actually think that you threatening or going through with sending him to his father's is too far.

Cuz I'm going to tell you, and again, I'm not picking on you.

Hold on. Hold on. >> That's not even That's not even I got I got to say this, though. >> far. Her You're punishing him for something he didn't do. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Her sen- you sending him to the father's house, that's not you putting your foot down. That's you copping out.

So, that's why I said you're not even close because >> this is something you must deal with.

And if you send him to the father's to the father's house, I sound like a sermon here. If you send him over to his father's house, that's you ducking out and going, "I don't want to deal with this. I'm just going to take myself out of the picture." And we are suggesting that you stay fully in the picture and deal with your portion of this issue.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I guess Sorry. Um um what I'm trying to explain is I'm sending him over because so I I'm helping him as best as I can, but I give him advice, and he doesn't take it.

>> not. You're not helping him.

You're actually hurting him. And you're hurting him by bubble wrapping him. Mhm.

This kid's bouncing around because he knows there's no jagged edges. There's no chance he gets financially bruised cuz mom is always there. And I will tell

you, you will hurt this kid's spirit if you send him to his father's >> Mhm. for something he didn't do. I think the best thing you can do for him is to confess to him today. I have been so

soft. Here's why. I'm afraid of this and

this and this, and because of my fear, I

did what every parent and every person

who's a fearful person does. We try to control. And Kay, I'm talking to you as a man who's guilty.

If I lined up all three of my kids, I got a 17, 18, 20, and I've confessed this to them where I have done this.

So, I'm being real real with you right now. I was so controlling for a season in my life, I created more strife in my house because of my fear,

and my fear made me controlling, and my controlling created unnecessary tension.

Okay. And in your situation, and I want Jade to check me on this, what we're hearing is in your attempt to allay your fears, and I'll bet you there's more fears you haven't even identified, but I appreciate you sharing one with us.

You are actually harming him.

You called us today to say, "How do I do it?" This is a massive self-awareness moment for you, and then a massive confession to your son.

And in the confession, you say, "So, I cannot in good conscience allow you to do this anymore." So, as your mom,

here's how this changes. This car, I'm taking your keys, and it gets parked until this happens, this happens, this I'm just telling you. That's what I would do. But first, with a confession.

So, that he realizes, "Oh, mom is actually trying to help me." He may not like it, by the way, but it's far better than you going, "I'm washing my hands." I don't know if you know the story in the Bible where Pontius Pilate the crowd wants to crucify Jesus, and he goes, "All right." And he literally washes his hands and says, "You take over." I think that's what you're doing if you send him to his dad's house.

Okay.

>> [sighs] >> I I see your point. Um I

you know, I'm just trying to navigate through this and see It's going to suck.

where where do I stop helping him, and you know, Now, stop. Yeah. Stop bailing him out on any of the car expenses. I think you swapping your mindset on this.

Right now, you're viewing it as a him problem and a him thing that I need to stop and a him problem I need to solve and a him thing that I need to keep from happening. This is This actually doesn't

have much to do with him. It has way more to do with you. This really is, to Ken's point, a you problem and a you self-awareness moment. I like that Ken said that. And I think by way of you

figuring that out, it will solve the

whatever him problem it that that exists. Because think about it. He's really just doing what a kid his age is going to do, which is see what the boundaries are, see if what he can get away with, see if mom and dad That's what he's wired to do at this age.

>> Jade, isn't even close to fully developed. >> Yes. To your point. >> Yeah, you guys so I I mean, yeah, I'm not going to I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this, but I agree with Ken 100%.

But listen, Kay, we want to encourage you, okay?

We shot you straight, but I want to encourage you. You're not a bad mom.

So, don't beat yourself up over this.

But literally, just say, "Hey, buddy, I blew it." It's going to freak him out, possibly.

Probably going to make him a little mad.

That's all right. You got to stop it now. And then you'll find that one of these days, you'll you'll really look back and go, "I don't regret that I did this." So, hang in there. Get your chin up, mom. This parenting stuff is hard.

You have a phenomenal heart. You are a great lady, okay? So, we're not beating

you up, but little tough love here just from experience from my side of things and I've been [music] there. You can do this.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Amanda who's joining us in Los Angeles, California.

Amanda, how are you?

Hi, how are you? >> Good. How can we help?

Okay, um basically I am 46.

Um I've always been a creative person, so I've never had a 9-5.

Um I'm in a pretty substantial amount of personal debt.

Um I'm just wondering like I'm ready to like get my financial life together. I just never had it together, so I really have no idea where to start.

>> Well, you know what?

You're in the right place. You're in the right place. You started by calling us today. This is exciting. >> Yeah, I I love creatives. I'm a creative, so I I'm excited to learn what you do creatively.

>> Yeah. Yeah, well I'm a singer-songwriter.

Um just a musician.

How are you paying the What What is your source of income right now?

Right now I'm a nanny. Okay, and what are you making?

Uh 30 an hour. Okay, after taxes. Okay.

>> hours are you working?

30. Okay, so you're still kind of in the part-time realm.

Um >> Why? Why are we only working 30?

Well, in the beginning it was a little bit more, but then the parents are

working through a divorce and now just

because they their time is split, like my time is is a little bit less just because the parents want to spend more time with the kids. Um and so I have been trying to get

additional I'm with a nanny agency. I've been trying to get additional jobs, but those are those are kind of as they come, so they're not regular.

And I'm also looking into some side hustles, but it's not happening like right now. But right now I have like 11 cents. Like

11 You have 11 cents in your account?

Yes. That's fantastically bad. But it I

must say it's hilarious how detailed that is. You're like, she's at 11 cents, Jade. Well, I just checked it. First

off, [laughter] let me let me validate

that and say I've been there. So, I've never been that low. >> Oh, I've been there. I've been there and below. Okay, uh paint a picture for us.

What kind of debt you got?

Okay, um personal loans, my best friend

um has been helping me out for the last few years just whenever she can.

Um and so I want I'm not taking any more

money from her, but I want to start paying her back. Um and then

I have about $2,000 in school debt. My

car is paid off.

Um and I'm working on paying back some back rent because I was out of work a lot last year, which which is why there's some stuff that I have to catch up on. >> is your rent? >> Um Uh 800 a month. Okay, so

I'm not hearing I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not hearing uh the details that should add up to 11

cents in your account. So, something else is going on here because you don't have any car debt. Your rent is in a good spot for somebody who makes $3,600 a month nannying 30 hours a week plus whatever little bit of money that you're bringing in from whatever gigs you're doing. Be real with us and tell us where the problem is because this is either

>> Again, I'm I'm I'm very like I have a lot of money anxiety. I don't know how to hold on to it. But what are you spending it on?

Oh, well right now I'm giving almost my entire check to catch up on rent. So, my my check after taxes is about 770.

And I give at least 400 of that to

my my roommate every week to catch up on rent. So, that's leaving me $300.

>> How much do you owe in back rent total?

Um I By my calculations, if I keep up at this pace, I'll be done by March. No, no, no, that's not what I asked. I said how much total do you owe in back rent?

Total total I owe another $4,000.

>> And tell me, this is where I'm trying to get the realness. Tell me why you were out of work for so long that you didn't pay rent for of quite some time.

Well, I was paying like partial, but I was out of work just because uh you know, I was working like part-time and less so because I >> Uh this is totally about a year. I've also been working through a lot of depression. I've had two parents die in the last few years. >> Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I'm Yeah, I'm trying to make a Well, I don't I don't want to make excuses.

Like I know that I did a you know >> that's it's Those aren't excuses. Um

when we're talking, we have to talk in

full reality. Otherwise, we'll talk around the issues. And what you've Once I pushed you to get real, you told us some very important things, which is you lost two parents in a very short period of time. And it makes sense. I'm not saying that it's a wonderful idea, but it's 100% normal for people to kind of

uh it's like being in the dark and you're just rooting around trying to find the light switch. And a lot of people run up debt during that time. A lot of people are it's they fall into a depression during that time. That makes total sense. And now Ken and I can go, "Okay, now we understand why you were behind rent. Now we understand why you weren't working for a year. Now it makes sense." And do you feel that like you've

started to come out of that fog of depression?

Yes, I'm I'm I have therapy. I have

help. I've I've been really working hard on it. So, that's why I really want to get a hold of this. Good for you. Good.

Well, here's the great news, Amanda. You're not You're not in this mountain of debt. I mean, that's what Jade's getting at. We're not hearing some where it's like your life is going to suck for the next 3 years and never see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working in one like we say it to some people.

You've heard us do that. So, the good news is you've not done a ton of damage. That's the good news. Um and I I hate to be so simplistic, but sometimes, you know, when we're depressed and we're down and I love that you're getting help and you're getting the tools.

Okay. It's one of the best things you can do and here's why. And I'm no therapist, but but and you can talk to your therapist about this, but I'm going to tell you something. There is a psychological benefit to doing hard things.

Yeah. Because you've been through some hard times.

Yeah. But doing hard things is such a

wonderful wonderful elixir for the soul.

Yeah. And you know, when you're working really hard, it's hard to be down.

Because you're you're so dadgum busy.

And then when you're working really hard and you have $1,100 in the bank instead of 11 cents, then you Now your spine gets a little taller. You tracking with me, Amanda?

True, yes. What do I do once I get the $1,100? >> I'm going to I'm going to let Jade take All right, you're in good hands. Jade's going to coach you. >> Yeah, so you told me I'm just going to repeat back what you told me. You told me you had $2,000 in student loan debt.

You told me you have $4,000 in back rent. Is there anything else that we need to add to the list?

Oh, the personal loan is about $30,000.

>> $30,000 in personal loan. That's the big one. That's okay. We didn't catch that one. >> So, what we're going to do Can you tell me the payment for the personal loan? What do you pay every month for that? I haven't started paying it yet.

>> When does it start?

I mean, it's my friend lent me money

over a period of time and I haven't taken any money from her, but now I'd like to start paying her back. So, there are no terms. >> So, your friend lent you the 30,000.

Okay. So here's what I would do. I would

start by focusing on this back rent and that's what we would tell anybody if they're behind on their rent mortgage, you got to do that first. That's your that's that's your livelihood. You need that. So the $4,000, I would go ham on

that. It sounds like you've got $3,600 a month and after the 800, after your little dinky student loan payment cuz it can't be that much on a $2,000, you know, loan. [clears throat] You should have so much money at your disposal. Right? Okay.

Do you? Okay.

I I don't feel like it right now. I mean, I'm paying I I just feel like every check I have about $90 for gas cuz

I commute to work and that's it because I'm giving all my money. So I But you So here's what we need. Here's what we need is a we need a budget because right now, just given the numbers that you've told me, you should have lots of money to put towards this.

So what I want you to do, we're going to give you every dollar Christian who picked up before is going to pick up again. You're going to get every dollar and you're going to put every bit of money that you've earned into that budget. And really what I want you to do is go back and look at your bank statement for last month and look at see how much did I get paid, where did the money go and do an audit on that because I think you have more money than you think and it's being spent in ways that you're not realizing because from what I hear, you've got a pretty basic life financially and there should be lots of margin going towards paying back this back rent.

So that's going to be first on your on your list and then we're going to head into the student loans.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, folks, you know this, but I got to say it. We need to be reminded of it. Buying or selling a home is a massive deal.

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And you can do that at ramseysolutions.com /agent. ramseysolutions.com /agent or because James Childers, our fearless leader, does such a good job with the show notes, you can just go to the show notes. I call it a cornucopia of goodness. Do you know what that means? >> A cornucopia? I do know what a what a cornucopia is. >> say that properly? >> I think that it was an extreme

way to say it, but I'll go with you.

>> [laughter] >> A cornucopia is just full and overflowing of all kinds of goodness.

That's the show notes. >> That's true. Anything we say, if we have a link, I just want to make make it clear, the show notes. [laughter] Just just go right on over there. >> I'm here for a cornucopia. Add it to the >> people will forget about the show notes today. It's a cornucopia of goodness.

>> Thank you very much. Brittany is joining us now right here in our backyard of Nashville. Brittany, how can we help?

Okay, so I think I'm calling in today to

maybe get permission to do something with our money. >> Well, it's your lucky day cuz I'm in a permission giving or denying mode.

>> I'm feeling pretty good, Brittany, so We have approximately $2 million in cash. Um That doesn't suck.

No, but making decisions does actually

suck pretty >> Where'd the cash come from?

So personal savings plus um

some investments that we cashed out. We have been sitting on some cryptocurrency Oh. that we actually planned to use for

this purpose, for building a new home.

Um so now we are getting into the

nitty-gritty. It's coming in at about 1.2 to 1.4 to build this home.

Great. >> And so yeah. Great.

Um so this would be our forever home. Um

It's at the school that we want our children to attend that they already attend. Um it will get >> you, Brittany? What's bothering you?

I It's a big number

and I think we're dealing with a little bit of imposter syndrome here, I think.

>> Understood. When we got married, we had nothing. Um and in fact, as soon as we got married, I got laid off from my job about 4 months later.

Um we have three children.

We own our own business.

Once we have this house, we will have the house, we will not have any additional debt. We'll still have a successful business.

But again, I think we're dealing with some imposter syndrome here or maybe maybe not. Once we build the house and we take care of our tax liability for this year, after taking out 1 year of living expenses, um well, I say living expenses. Once we take out what we pay ourselves in a year, >> Uh-huh. um which is about $120,000, we would have about $330,000

left to reinvest. Why are you taking um

I have a question. Why are you taking taking a year's salary out of that? Is that for an emergency fund or >> Yes, because you never know we do own our own business. Understood.

Okay. >> happened to my husband, you know, >> I get it. I just wanted to be clear on that. >> got to jump in. Um I permission granted. Are you asking for permission to actually pay cash for this dream house?

Yes. Yes, permission granted. I feel so powerful. Uh no, but can I address something? I don't think you guys are

suffering from imposter syndrome. First of all, imposter syndrome is a fancy way of saying doubt. Would you agree with me, Brittany?

I really don't know. I I'm not sure if we we deserve this, you know. That's my point. You So imposter syndrome is I

doubt that I belong. I doubt that we But

you actually are dealing with shame.

There's some level of shame, not because you did something. Many times people hear shame and they go, oh, no, no, no.

I think it's because what you guys come from. You said it. We come from nothing.

I think you said something to that effect. Is that right? Yes. Okay, great.

That's what it is.

You guys aren't suffering from imposter syndrome. You're suffering from fear.

You actually are afraid that if you spend this kind of money, all this huge money, which two two million dollars is a lot of money. If we spend it, um we're going to somehow screw up and that's not the safe thing or the smart thing to do. And I would actually tell you that this is absolutely incredibly smart. This is a huge real estate investment that you could get the money back.

You know it and I know it. There's zero risk on this. I mean, in the real I mean, we're talking about, you know, the world coming to an end, sure. But outside of that, you guys this is not a risk.

And And I'm just curious. I want to walk you through a super fast exercise.

Um >> [clears throat] [snorts] >> About

3 years. We started with small investments. Great. And we've been sitting on this cryptocurrency for about 2 years. Okay, great. And then the next question is how long has the business been alive and well?

Uh 13 years. 13 years.

We're still imposter syndrome here. You guys didn't just fall off of a potato truck and into this. I mean, you guys worked at it. You took some calculated risk and it paid off for you. So um I I hope I'm just

trying to get inside your head to say um this is fear, not doubt.

You guys are afraid that if you spend this money, it's somehow wasteful because you come from so little. Did I just hear yes? Yes, that's exactly Yeah.

I know. I've talked to so many people like you. Um it's just so unbelievable

based on where you guys came from. As opposed to flip that to wow, how blessed

are we? How grateful should we be? This

is awesome as opposed to this is crazy

that we're going to cut a check for that. Jade, I want you to come in on this cuz I know you have perspective on this and emotions around money. What are you hearing? You hearing anything different? I 100% agree when you first

started talking Brittany I thought man, this is exactly what I talk about in the book when I talk about fear of success and fear of failure and they tend to coexist and it's just that feeling of man, if I what if I blow it?

What if I have this great thing and I blow it? People are going to be able to and it's broadcast for everybody to see cuz it's my home. It's all of that. So I agree with Ken wholeheartedly and I'll tell you what came to my head. My pastor used to say all the time if you got it and it's good, it's from God. And just be so grateful. It doesn't have to do with whatever you deserve cuz nobody who who deserves, right? Like come on. Let's be honest. And so if you have it, think

of it as something that you're supposed to steward well and look after and be just such a good um take such great care with and I believe that you're going to do it. The fact that you're here on you called us in and you called in and you're in tears about this. You're going to manage this well. You're going to look after this like Ken said, you're not new to the game.

You guys have been working for a long time. You understand the value of a dollar. You understand hard work.

to enjoy this home that you have gotten

as a wonderful blessing because of your hard work and effort.

Jade and I will come by and dedicate it.

Uh she'll sing. I'll say a few words.

It'll be great. Yeah, we'll we'll cheers. Don't forget about us. Don't forget about [laughter] us little people Brittany. You know here's here's here's the key on this Brittany when you get it cuz this is this is going to come back up. So that's why you heard both of us kind of go into mindset stuff for you cuz this is going to pop back up. This little this little demon's going to pop back on the shoulder. Here's here's the thing you got to remember. Forget all the raw raw we just did.

You guys are going to be paying cash for a dream home and you still have a full year you're going to set aside of your expenses plus a very healthy company.

You're not broke. You're not spending every nickel in your life. We didn't even ask you what your retirement portfolio is and everything else. This is a very dedicated expense that is the best expense one could have which is a dream home that you pay cash for and you still got some left over. So when the demon pops up on the shoulder say shut up. We got plenty.

And enjoy this and bless people with it.

>> Yeah, >> [music] >> and keep talking keep talking to people like Ken and I who will celebrate with you. That's what you need. You don't want to be around people who make you feel like you got to shrink back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio alongside the newly minted best-selling

author of what no one tells you about money, the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I am

just Ken. Thank you my friend. You're never just Ken. >> Isn't that a song in the Barbie movie?

I'm just Ken or something like that. I could be wrong. >> It's bothering me that you've seen the Barbie movie and I have not. >> I haven't. My daughter has.

>> Oh, okay. >> Told me about it. And how do you know? Oh. Cuz there's lots of songs around Ken. The famous just asking for a friend. >> [laughter] >> My friend saw the Barbie movie. Okay.

This is a true story. No chance. I paid for my daughter to go with her friends but no chance I was going to try to sleep through that cuz I would have slept through that.

Do you know what I mean? I can't watch any like kids movies or anything that's not interesting. >> say so Ken. >> 20 minutes in You're out.

>> catching flies. That's what happens when I try to watch Star Wars. Out out like like a light. Hey. >> All right, we have to spend more time off air on that statement. I don't know what's wrong with you. Okay.

I'm going to let that one pass. Flush.

Mike is up in Jacksonville, Florida.

Mike, how can we help?

Hey, um well, um my dad uh committed suicide a few years ago. Oh my gosh. >> Um and um he uh

when that happened I flew there and and handled everything and and my grandma um

decided that she would take what would have been my father's inheritance and give it to us kids, his portion of it.

Um she asked me if it should be me and

my siblings or just me um since she

doesn't have a relationship with them.

And I said just put me for now.

Um my there's a bit more nuance than that but my concern is what what do I do? I feel like they are entitled to something. Um but every time they get any type of

lump sum or they make any type of advancement in their life, they do things to sink themselves even further.

They both have kids and I'm I'm scared that if they just get a lump sum, they're it's going to do a

lot more harm than good. >> Okay, let's can we rewind a bit? Yeah, my my my first well first off, I'm so sorry so so very sorry for your loss.

But the first question Ken that I have is is grandma still with us or

has she passed? Okay. Not yet but she is

I've been in contact with my my family and she's she's closing in on that time

and it's becoming more and more of a reality. And how much money are we talking about?

Um it depends on exactly how long she remains um but it could be anywhere from 100 to about 120k total. And was she the

sole beneficiary of your dad's will?

Um so my dad didn't have anything.

So when my dad died, there was nothing anywhere. Um he we were just left with debt. So no one got anything from my dad. But I thought that's how you started off the call. Forgive me. No, this is Sorry. It's her inheritance?

It's what she wants to leave that she was going to leave to their dad but now that he's >> I apologize. I thought I was listening.

I was trying to listen. I apologize.

Okay. So so grandmother

has it been written in the will that you're the only beneficiary or are we still chatting about this to write it down?

It is just well so it's just it's me and then my my dad's [clears throat] siblings, my aunts and uncles and there's there's four of them and then me in the first place. So this is already split five ways. >> The 120. No, the 120 would be my portion.

Understood. Okay, so after the aunts and uncles, there's 120,000 and you're deciding do I split this with my siblings? How many siblings do you have?

Two. Okay, so there's three of you guys and your other two siblings you're like hey, they can't have a lump sum of money. They'll do this this and that. Are we talking about I'm trying to understand the level of immaturity. Are we talking about they'll do drugs and drink it and gamble it away or are we talking about hey, you know, they have a car payment.

I don't believe in car payments. Tell me tell me what level we're talking about.

So uh my my middle brother um he has

five kids total, only has custody of

one. His wife has five kids, has custody of two, one of them being shared between the two of them. They live in an apartment. Um my brother [clears throat] went through um bankruptcy a few years ago and the

second he was finished with bankruptcy, took I bought a $2,000 dog and was making payments on it. Um then he got a

a new job, was making good money and immediately bought a brand new car off the lot, made has these these giant payments. Okay, I'm I'm getting a picture. Let me ask you this. Um and this isn't an attempt to give you any answer through the lens of what would I do.

If I understood correctly, did grandmother contact you and say should I will some of my money to your brothers.

The exact conversation was I'm going to put you guys as the

uh to take over what Mike would have gotten. Do you want me to put you or your brothers? She reached out to me because she doesn't have a relationship with them. They haven't spoken in years.

>> that's a nuance the way you just said that. You said you or your brothers. She said do I give your dad's portion, which we're saying is 100 to 120,000, somewhere in that range.

Do I Do I give it to you or your brothers? That's what you just said. Now, that's a very different question.

>> Versus just you or your brothers.

Yeah, I sorry. I meant just me or just me and my brothers in terms of name on the will. >> So, here's Grandma has come to you and and she's putting it in your lap or she's asking your opinion.

Yes. And you haven't gotten back to her?

I did. I told her to put just my name.

Okay, so you're having second thoughts.

No, I get it. Are you having >> why? It's It's I did not tell her why. She didn't ask. All right, are you having second thoughts?

I'm not necessarily having second thoughts about my name on it. I think that's appropriate. I'm more concerned about what do I do for them? I I feel like they do deserve something. It was their dad that passed too, not just mine.

>> stay right there. I I just I'm with you.

We got a little limited time and I'm trying to walk you to where you can feel good about your decision. This is your decision, not Jade or mine. All right?

So, I understand what you just said. So, before you called us, I know that you thought through an amount.

Let's just play with 100,000 as a easy round number. What were you thinking about giving each of them?

Um well, I kicked two things around.

I've kicked around giving them each 10 um because that's not quite enough to do too much damage and I've also thought about just paying something off for them rather than handing them the cash. >> have a quick follow-up. Do they know that grandmama has has asked you any of this or that they might get any money or they clueless?

It's They're clueless.

Okay. Let me jump in. I think the third the the middle option when you said I could just pay something off for them, I would not do that. I think you're trying to control the situation too much. >> Mhm. Um they They're who they are and they're grown and they're adults and they're going to make your their decisions. I think if you try to get too controlling in that area, it's only going to lead to heartache for for both parties. Um I I'm ready to rule. Go

ahead. I'll give you the last word. I'm just going to quickly say I think you pick the number. I don't care if it's 10, the original thought. You pick a number that you can sleep good at night.

They don't know. So, this is going to be found money for them and you don't I think you pick a number and the number that lets you sleep well at night. Jade?

That's my take. That's what I would do if I were you. I'm in um I'm inclined [music] to split it equally. Three ways? As long as nobody's doing drugs.

Yeah. Yeah, and I I don't hate that. I don't have any kind of pushback. I'm just trusting your gut. I'm coaching you. It's your call based on what your instinct was, but I like that. You got two options. Thanks for the call.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, [music] now we go to Daniel who's joining us in Dallas, Texas. Daniel, how can we help today?

Yeah.

Daniel, you're there? >> Hello. Yes, can you hear me? Yes, sir. Can you hear us? I got Yes, sir. I can hear you as well. All right, how can we help?

Yeah, so uh I have a question. So, I think it was about 2 years ago. It'll be 2 years in March March 2024. I bought a brand new car right off the lot. At the time I was like 23.

Um zero miles. I had It was about 515 a month and with insurance it was also another 300 a month. That's about like I don't know.

It's a little more It's close to $900 a month paying about 800 and paying just on my car car loan. Uh I'm thinking should I cuz I recently like I got laid off from my job back then. I was working so and I was living at my parents' house so it wasn't necessarily like the the worst for me to go into that. I mean, looking back at it now, I wish I didn't.

But, um I was wondering, do you guys think I should like sell my car? I owe about 22,000 left on there. Yeah. I did Kelly Blue Book.

Yes, so what do you What do y'all think I should do? I think I'm thinking yes. I want to get more information, but I'm I'm I'm starting with the yes.

Uh well, right now I'm unemployed. I'm I'm back in school so I'm living off unemployment right now.

It's about 500 a week. >> Yeah, then definitely there's I mean, if you really think about it, there is no other option. You can't afford this car. You don't have a job.

And so for that reason, I 100% would get out of this. Now, you owe 22. What's it worth?

20. That's the only problem. No, it's not a It feels like a problem, but it's not as big a problem as you think.

Um if I were you, I would try Are you still at your parents' house or no?

Yeah, I am. Okay, what I would do is I would scrounge up 2,000 bucks a month out of that 500 that you're getting and I'd close the gap and get rid of this thing immediately.

And then your next move while you're doing that, you're picking up a job,

any job, any literally any job for now, and then you're going to scrounge up that money and you're going to turn around and take another two or three thousand dollars and you're going to buy

a used car in cash. And I'm just saying

this in the comments because I know people are like, you can't buy a $1,500 You can't buy a $2,000 car. Yes, you can. Ken, the car that I drive,

my Cadillac, it's a 2013 SRX.

It's worth about 1,500 bucks. Now, I didn't pay that for it, but I've driven it. >> the car that's out there? It's a It's got 168,000 miles on it.

>> It looks like it's worth more than that. >> It has no problems. I could sell like I literally could sell it to you today and you would be like, wow, I can't believe I got this. So, they're out there is all I'm saying. >> might should sell it to him. He needs a car. >> Where where where Where do you think I could find a car for that affordable that You know what I mean? Cuz like my last car I had, it was breaking down a lot.

Uh that's the reason why I ended up buying like a new car off the lot. And this And this is a new It's a It's a Honda too so I know it's going to like my car that I have right now pretty reliable. >> just need to make sure that you're doing a little bit of research and buy brands Number one, buy cars that you still see on the road. Like you you can't go wrong with a Camry.

You can't go wrong with some of these cars that are still out there. You're just looking for something that's got a bunch of miles on it. It's older and try to just get the report on it. Try to find out, has it been in 10 wrecks?

Has it been and spend a little bit of money to have a mechanic look at it and get the Carfax on it.

Matter fact, you can I don't know where you live, but here we [snorts] have Christian Brothers Automotive and that's where I take my car, my husband's car.

Both of us drive very used cars and we take them in there and they'll look at it. If I was going to buy a new used car a new to me or used car today, I'd bring it over there and they'll do the report on it and it's totally worth it. So, that's what I would tell you to do. Once you have your eye on a car, say, "Hey, can can I Can I bring it over to mechanic mechanic?" Take it to Christian Brothers and then they'll give you the the full workup on it.

Yeah, and and just a little specifics, I mean, you're looking at Facebook Marketplace.

going to have to you know, assume some hardship, but you're living with your mom and dad. So, there are options. So, this idea that I got to have a nice car and all this kind of stuff. It's really not not true.

But, you know, if if you are looking and you find somebody that's got a car in one of these Hondas and you know, or a Toyota, you know, that kind of thing. And again, you take it to Christian Brothers, they're going to give it a give it a once over and you may have to put five, six hundred bucks into it.

>> Yeah. And they're going to tell you, Right. >> "This is a drivable car. Is it Does it look pretty? Does it smell great? Is the carpet nice?" None of those things are true when we're talking about the the the kind of car we're talking about here, but uh it gets you from A to Z. I want to pivot for a second. What is the purpose of school for you? What what are you doing? Is this community college?

>> I'm in No, I'm in trade school. I'm enrolled at a aviation mechanic school. So, I have about like a year I am That's great.

Fantastic. Daniel, I got to tell you

I am so excited for you.

What is the What is it costing you?

The This is it's like about 40 though. I took a loan. I I wish I like I'm thinking about enrolling uh cuz I was talking to somebody in my class today about it about like enrolling in the the reserves cuz I think it's I think they can like cover I I'm not mad at that idea.

>> I don't dislike that either. I don't want you spending 40,000 on this trade school. Um but so if you can get out of that and

not do that, that's great. But I love the trade school option for you.

Because is it you're going to make some really good money, my friend.

Yeah, I >> love it. I love it. I just passed my final today. How old are you?

Uh I'm 25. Just I'm about to be 26.

Yeah, I I like that what I'm going to tell you what I like about what you're doing. I like that you were reflective enough to look at this car and say this is not good. A lot of people would have tried to ride it out, kept it. I like that you're thinking about your future.

You you you made a a couple of mistakes, but that's all right. You're on the right track, and Ken and I just want to really encourage you that you you're on the right track. So do you believe So talking to this guy you're Do you believe that you can get out of the commitment if you were to pull stakes and go to the reserves?

Uh In other words, are you on the hook control I want to make sure you're not on the hook for $40,000?

>> not. I'm not on the Well, yeah, I am on the hook. That's the problem. Like I'm like I I signed I already took the loan, everything. >> Uh you've already paid for the full thing.

Yeah, it's like it's already like paid for. You know what I mean? Like >> I see. So you've already got the loan and the school gets their money up front. And then uh a year from now, is that when you're done and then you start paying on the loan?

Yes. Yeah, but like I'm taking I'm starting to make it like interest payment. I'm make I'm paying like I started paying like I think it's like $50 a month uh on the interest for now.

How many hours a week How many hours a week could you work if Jade and I just handed you an awesome paying job and knowing your commitment to trade school, how many hours a week could you work?

I'll probably do about like 20 to 30.

Is there any Is there any kind of mechanical or apprenticing type work where you're getting really nice chunk per hour?

Fixing fixing something? I was just talking to I was just talking to somebody in my school today. Uh she's like she has find people to get jobs.

Like she does her her role is to do that. It's like help you find a job. And so after you graduate, you can get an A&P, but also while you're in school Great. >> trying to find like a airport. So she she was telling me about some jobs that pay about like 22, 23 an hour that will they're basically like being a mechanic without the actual license. Uh you know what I >> So proud of you for asking, but Daniel, the answer is yes.

Yes. Sign me up. >> I'll take whatever you can find me. This woman you're telling me about is your new best friend. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not picky with the job. Like I I really want a airport job just so I can get the license, but I'm not like Like I know right now like in the day I just need a job that you Yeah, you do.

Because because we got to get out of this car mess. Action A is what Jade

told you you sell the car, you you borrow mom dad's, they drive you, whatever. We scrape, we do whatever we got to do, we claw, and then we get to the point where we can buy a better car.

We talked about that, all right? We told you to go see Christian Brothers if there's one in your area. Okay. Now, okay. And then it's just whatever you're making in this $23, $24 an hour job is

going to pay off this debt so that you can knock as big a chunk of that out as possible so that when you hit the streets Now again, if you go to the reserves, it's not a bad idea. But I like the options you're considering. Lay them all out on the table, seek the counsel of wise people in your life, make the best decision for you, and just avoid debt, my man. I love that you're you're aware of this, but you can you can make really good money.

Uh and you got a bright future ahead of you, Daniel.

>> I appreciate that. >> Get rid of the debt, stay away from it.

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Madison, Wisconsin where Alexis is joining us.

Alexis, how can we help?

Hi guys. Hi.

Um so my boyfriend and I are newly

devoted and intentional with our money individually. >> All right. >> Um we talked about marriage, we talked about our incomes, our debts, and all those goals. And so with that being said, when we get married, I'm intrigued

to the idea of having one joint checking account and savings account with our incomes being deposited and budgeted from that we share versus if we were to

have separate checkings and then just like one joint account. How would those

operate in the idea of unity?

I mean, I like the first way you said.

That that's the way my husband and I do it. I'm guessing Ken, that's the way you and Stacy do it because there's full transparency there. The question that I'd be asking uh with the other way having two two separate checking accounts and then you take your money's and put whatever amount you deem necessary into the joint account. It's kind of like, well, what's the purpose there? So I'd have a lot of questions around that. What What's the purpose? Why wouldn't we both have access to the full amount of funds? Why

wouldn't we both be planning what's done with that full amount of funds? Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah, and that's what I was wondering and just between the two, I'm more intrigued to the just one joint Yeah, one joint checking and savings, but we just weren't sure what you guys would say. I I would say that. I would say for transparency reasons and for uh the

ability to be aligned and everybody to see what's going on and kind of have a, you know, hey, all hands in the center, you know, that kind of thing. Um Yeah.

If you guys are both open with that, I think that's fabulous, and I think you say say less, let's do it. Now the the multiple accounts thing, the the only

the only reason that I think people go for that is cuz there's still a bit of like independence that they want, and there's still this bit of mine is mine, lack of

trust. I want to keep a little bit over here for myself. I don't want anybody to have to say about what I spend money on over here. I don't want to have to answer to like quote answer to anyone for this money that Do you see what I'm saying? So it really does beg many many questions if you choose to do it that way, which I think you shouldn't.

Okay, well, perfect because I we're both on the same page of being intentional together for our marriage.

>> You're going to have a greater level of trust, greater level of confidence. It's such a good move. It's what we teach. We don't believe that married couples should have separate finances. Come together as one. So yeah, you guys are doing it great. Congratulations on all of this future dreaming and all this good stuff. We're we're here for you. Uh as you move along, uh call us back and we'll walk through that with you.

Ken, when you and Stacy got married, was that an automatic, or did it take time for you guys to get that?

>> automatic. Why? It's what our parents did. Yeah. I mean, we grew up in a house where uh there were two accounts, a checking account and a savings account, right?

>> And um I mean, we're not talking about investment, but just just um your your everyday money. So um What I mean, full disclosure, my wife and I are both pastors' kids. So very conservative Baptist, you know, small churches. So it wasn't just conservative theology, it was just conservative living. Do you know what I mean? They lived on less than they made. So that's all we ever knew. In fact, I wish Stacy were here cuz I I don't think I'm wrong.

I don't think we ever even had a conversation about it. about it at all.

>> It just happened. It was just like, when we get back from the honeymoon, we got a Do we want to stay with my bank or we want to We were at two different banks when dating. >> Uh-huh. And so she was in North Carolina and she was going to move to Virginia with, you know, so it was like, well, here's who I'm banking with in Virginia and it was just kind of like, we got to set up a joint It was just day one. That's so interesting.

>> We never even considered and I've always

kind of done that uh that dog head tilt Uh-huh.

when people call in. To this day, even though I've sat in this hundreds of hours, you know, maybe thousands. And it's like, every time I hear something like that, I go, I just I just don't understand why you would want to have separate accounts. It's got to be a trust issue cuz I'm even thinking about Sam and I and it was similar It was just like you and Stacy. It wasn't even a question.

And when I really think about it, I go, well, I had plenty of reason to say, uh

you know, things I've seen and he had plenty of reason to say the things I've seen, like >> Yeah. our backgrounds did not truly set us up to combine money, but I'm guessing we really just had trust in each other because it was like a no-brainer. I I'm just going to say and again, I I mean, everybody has their own foibles and faults and everything. But just as a guy now coming up on 28 years of marriage I'm so grateful that

my phone location is on and she knows where I'm at all the time. >> Yes. She sees any expenditure. Yes, she

has I'm sure the code, you know, the six-digit code to get into your phone.

100%. >> Yes. I don't We have the same phone password because I mean, you know what I'm saying? I love >> advocate. What would happen if you changed your phone code and she said >> I shudder at the thought of the idea [laughter] of removing Not because I'm this bad person. Here's what I don't want. I don't want to be like, Ken's fighting team. No, I'm just saying, like, it's nice to live a life where you know there's I'm going to call it an instinctive accountability. Yes.

Like we We've both made mistakes with money. Yes. But we've never done something insanely stupid in our almost 20 years of marriage because even if I want to like surprise her

Yeah. Like I have to say hey, listen, uh for the next 72 hours I need you to not look at the account.

>> account. >> That's That's my life. And she knows, why are you doing something squirrely?

No, she knows, oh, you want to surprise me. >> Uh-huh. My surprises are like And you got to reveal a little of the surprise. >> [laughter] >> But I'm not griping about it.

I'm saying I just think human nature left to its own devices, we're not None of us are above doing something dumb, immoral, whatever, whatever, whatever. And I just think that when we talk about combining finances It's accountability. And I like that we're going down the rabbit hole on this.

And the principle that we teach here at Ramsey about joint finances isn't just

about, you know, being responsible. It's

also to keep you from wrecking your life. You need somebody to go, what are Wait, what? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT DOING? >> JUST SPENT what on what? Take it back.

Yeah, 100%.

>> Because when you have the separate accounts what doesn't change is that you do have a shared life.

But a shared life with separate accounts to me feels like a recipe for tension. I

I It's not fully shared. I You know >> with you. I agree. There's just something about it because if Sam had his own account I would have I would

just wonder, what are you I would wonder, what are you spending your money on? Not that He's a great guy. I have no

reason to assume he's spending money on bad things, but to not know You know

what? >> and to not be told is like, why are you Why would you withhold information that is easily shared is basically what I'm saying. >> that it creates something that may not even be there. Yes.

>> But just by the very nature of, well, I've got my thing and all this kind of stuff. One of my favorite stories, uh Sam just told me recently >> [laughter] >> so you guys in your budget Sam and I I've told you this. I'm not going to I'm not going to >> Well, I'm not going to share that part unless you want to share it. But Sam and I were having cigars recently and he was telling me that you guys, like a lot of couples, you guys have your budget and it's his money.

Like you have Do you call >> money? his and hers. >> his and hers fun money. Yeah, it's fun money.

Uh-huh. And he goes, I'll just hold it aside, hold it aside, hold it aside, not use it at all and then go buy something really big. >> Yeah. And I like that. Yes.

>> And it reminded me of how there's the individuality. Because you guys have decided ahead of time this is my money, this is your money and he may not spend it for months and months and months and he told me this story because he went out and did something and even then he was telling me and he was like, do you think that's crazy? And I go, not at all. No. I said,

I think that's a massive flex. Yeah, and when he told me, he goes, I thought that you were going to think this is the dumbest thing anybody could spend their money on. I said, I don't think that at all. >> Yeah.

And I I said, it's not dumb. I said, you know why? Cuz this thing you're doing is going to be a memory that your entire family will talk about 50 years from now. He bought an original Ninja Turtles suit from the movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the day.

For family Halloween, comes downstairs, kids haven't seen it. He looks like he walked off a movie set. Yeah, and my kids, they'll never forget it. It was a great memory.

And it was expensive. Yes, it was. >> he saved it up in his sock [laughter] drawer for months. And that's how it works.

>> him. Yes. >> it. >> [laughter] [music]

[music]

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All right, 888-825-5225

is the phone number. Michael is up next in Knoxville, Tennessee. Michael, how can we help?

Hey guys, appreciate you having me on.

Big fan of the show. Thank you. How can we help? Uh All right, so I'm going to try to kind of scratch the surface a lot uh as quick as I can. Uh I'm a football coach,

um high school football coach and teacher, um couple years ago, I took a job um at a really prestigious school football-wise.

Um it was a football move, but also, more importantly for my family, it was a financial move.

Um been making more money as an assistant coach honestly, than I thought I ever would unless I became a head a head coach, which is a goal of mine one day.

that's kind of been an issue for me and it's been weighing on me. So, since this season ended, I've had actually two different places reach out to me um with some offers to go to to coach and teach, obviously.

Um Both are kind of pulling at me in two different directions. I feel like I'm at a roundabout, not a four-way. So, it's like, you know, do I do I stay where I'm at making really good money knowing that it's going to kind of keep me away from my family more than I want? And then one job, okay, is at another

prestigious place, really great place, the pay is really good, not quite as good as what I'm making now, but I mean, it's it's just top of the line as far as family atmosphere and having my kids.

Um What do you mean by that? Can I ask a question? When you said keeping you away from First, you described it as you didn't want your kids to grow up in that school system. Was that what it is? And then you said keeping keeping away from my family. So, is it your schedule or is it the community?

Which one is it or is it a combination of both? Well, it it's some of both, you know, it's it's a demanding schedule, but it's more so you know, I've been blessed throughout my career.

Um You know, my daughter is nine now and she since she was a baby, she's just kind of been able to come with me so many so much throughout the off-season, you know, for meetings and practices and Mhm. you know, and and I've had this dream with my boys, you know, with my daughter's cheering one day like she wants to do, my boys kind of being water boys on the sideline, just being around me Yeah, but you don't want them in this current school.

Exactly, I don't. Absolutely not. Okay, so that's >> for reasons, yeah. >> so because of time, I want to get I feel like I heard we got a good grip on what you are doing now. So, you gave us another option. Is there another So, we got where we are and then we have option A and B. Am I understanding that correct? That's right. >> All right, so option A is fabulous school. How much less money?

Uh about seven grand a year less. The downside of that can is it's 3 and 1/2 hours away. Um so it's selling a house we built on my wife's family's land that she kind of deeded to us which they we've talked to them about it. They're okay with it, but there's that stress of you know, cuz it's kind of a quick turnaround, you know, getting ready for next season.

So if I take this job, you know, then we have that stress of finding another home which I don't think it's going to be an issue, but finding a house in a short amount of time, you know, or do we rent it? There's that whole thing that's just really just stressing me out. >> get it.

Uh is your wife open to moving from this current place where it's your family's land or her family's land?

She is and just Great. I told you just a yeah. And I'll tell you this, this is a lot. And uh so we've got three children. Um

and we actually have one on the way.

Come on. All right. Well, coach, I ain't worried about you. You can handle it. I understand this is stressful, but I'm okay. Now let's look at option B real quick. Talk us through option B. Option B is actually my hometown, my alma mater. Uh I've worked for the guy who's there now before. He's like a father to me. Great guy. I love the guys on staff. I played there.

Um wants me to come back. It's also both of these position offers are for coordinator position. So it's a move up there. It it's a significant paycheck.

So it would be a, you know, 20 25,000 dollar paycheck. But

>> Yes. Yeah. >> you the are you the sole income?

I am. My wife stays at home. I am.

Okay. Before I weigh in on this, I want to know the truth, coach.

Where's your heart? If no one else is involved, Jade and I aren't weighing in, your wife's not weighing in, nobody's weighing in on it.

In the quiet of night, what's your heart telling you about these three? Stay, A, or B?

Um The only option A. I mean, I want to go I want to go to this want to move up north. I want to you know, Come on. go to the mountains.

Come on. I'll have my family with me. Come on. It's just that fear of the home, you know, and that kind of thing.

>> All right, let's walk through that. But before we walk through that, I want Jade to walk through any of these logistics. She's great at this kind of stuff. Here's what I want to say, okay?

As a guy who's completely objective sitting here listening to this, I want to go with your heart answer unless your heart answer is stupid.

Now, Okay. it's a coordinator job, so it sets you up to be a head coach one day. So this is obviously this meets the ladder box.

I'm always looking at when I give advice to people, does this get me further up the ladder or position me to move up the ladder? And it puts you further up the ladder. The 7,000 dollar hit, I'm going

to absorb that because if I amortize

that over 12 months, I can tighten the

belt and I can absorb a 7,000 dollar hit. 25's too much. Um

and I think if you play your cards right with your old coach on that, maybe you replace him one day. Who knows? Who knows? So I like option A. It's now just about handling that stress. Jade, you've moved recently with younger kids. Uh walk him through uh what he needs to do if his wife's on board. Sounds like she is.

He's stressed out about a move 3 and 1/2 hours away to get there, get on board, and get ready to go for the season. What has he got to walk through? >> both of you have to agree, number one. I hope that her gut instinct is the same as your gut instinct or else you guys have many conversations to have. That's number one. >> she think A is the best move?

I think she does, you know, she she It's important to her for that family atmosphere for sure. Okay, that's good.

And then after that, I'm just going to say how So I know that the the location on screen is not accurate and probably the location that you're telling us you're going is not accurate. But is it a couple of states over? Are are you moving >> No. No, same state. I'm in the south state. I'm in southern part of the state.

It's 3 and 1/2 hours up here, you know,

in the mountains. Okay, got it. That's right. You did say 3 hours away. Um the biggest thing is just to plan for and save up as much as you can in in this interim because moving is expensive. It takes time to get settled. There's a lot of eating out during that time. There's a lot of like oh gosh, we just realized we don't have this and you run over to Wal-Walmart and get it, right? There's just a lot of expenditures that come up.

So I would just be going through the budget with a fine-tooth comb right now, figuring out what we can, you know, save money on so we can stack up as much cash as possible, get as much information ahead of time. How are you going to move? Are you going to do the U-Haul thing? Are you going to, you know, have somebody cart it over for you?

What are you going to do? And just make a plan and stick to the plan. That's the best thing that you could possibly do um on this. And then what I would also do probably tonight uh or this weekend cuz we're coming up on the weekend, I would set a date night with your wife and say, let's make a budget with this 25,000 dollar paycheck.

No, no, no, seven. Seven. Option A is a 7,000 dollar hit.

Um just again so that there's no surprises or so at least you're mitigating the surprises. There's always going to be a few.

You know what I wish, coach? I wish in the background we had the theme song from the greatest television show of all time, Friday Night Lights. Did you ever watch it, the TV show?

Absolutely. >> All right, coach, finish it up for me. I feel like there's only one thing to say for you. Clear eyes, full hearts.

>> Full hearts. Say it. >> Can't lose. Can't lose. Go get 'em, coach.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, best-selling author of What No One Tells You About Money, brand new national bestseller topping the charts.

We shared the news earlier today if you didn't know. Super excited to be sitting next to her. She is Jade Warshaw. So fun. Congratulations again, my friend.

That's always a fun fun and very very rare air. So congratulations to you.

>> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> McKenzie is up next in Orlando, Florida.

McKenzie, how can we help you?

Hey, thanks for having me. I um I was calling to get your thoughts on um an idea I have around possibly selling a rental property. And it might be good for me to give you some background. Yes.

Um so I currently make uh 400,000 a

year. And um my wife's in school. She's going to be working when she finishes her grad school. She'll probably make about 150.

But we don't have any credit card debt. We don't have any car notes.

The debt we do have is 850 on our current house. And we have

combined about 300,000 in student loan debt. Okay. >> Um and and then my first house that I had before our marriage has a mortgage of about 450 on it. So all in about 1.6.

Okay. And Okay, go ahead.

>> So uh the the rental property that has 450 on it, it cash flows about 1,200 a month which is good. It's been phenomenal. It's in like the best part of the city, great schools. It's just it's great location that will probably appreciate really fast. But my question to you is that house has about 300,000 in equity.

Okay. Is it worth holding on to the house, continuing to rent it, and having

it as a cash-flowing asset once I get into retirement?

Or is it better to sell it now,

take the 300,000 dollars in equity, and pay off student loans for my wife and myself?

I personally I'm going to I'm going to give you two two options here.

There's part of me that I would sell this house immediately to clear the student loans.

Um then I look at your income and I go, well, heck. I want to know how quickly she's going to be making 150.

She graduates in May and she'll start working in August. Interesting. Now, I want to know this cuz this is a lot of times we step into real estate and it's just like by default. I just had this house and I decided not to sell it and so now it became this. Is this if you were looking to buy a real estate rental, would you have picked this house?

Cuz it just so happens >> No. >> You said no. Okay, that's all I need to know. That's all I needed to know.

>> Can I Can I ask some context? >> I don't know. I don't think so because if you had said you started by saying it's in a great neighborhood, it cash flows so well, and every once in a while here when people have stepped into real estate, even if they've done it the wrong way, if it seems like it could benefit them, I'm not as quick to sell it off, right?

But in this case, all I needed to know is is this a good enough property that you would have bought this looking? And you said no. That's all I needed to know, Ken. What about you? >> Well, the the context the context of it >> at it He McKenzie's in the corner. You painted him in the corner and now he's trying to [laughter] get out. Go I want to give him a shot.

Yeah, the the answer you provided probably it might be right, but the reason why I said no is not because it's not in a great area. It's that if I was investing in real estate, I wouldn't look at a 500,000 dollar house which is what this was when I bought it. I would be looking Exactly. >> it has But it has worked out that it has

rented well and cash flowed and it's in the best area and it has the best schools. And so I do think if I look down the road 20 years and I look back I'll be like, "Man, I'm glad I have [clears throat] this house and you know, thankful." But then there's also the looming $300,000 >> Right. And and I see what you're saying.

I totally understand it. What I was trying to get to was could there be some intentionality around this that you could look back and go, "I didn't mean to do this, but I'm so glad this dropped in my lap because if I was I would have picked this. I just didn't know I was looking, right?" That would have been a little bit different for me.

this property and then by the time, you

know, the house is up on the market, it sells, by then my wife's going to be making $150,000.

How quickly could we then pay off our current home?

And then how quickly could we say, "You know what? Let's get back into real estate and now let's purchase a thing that we think we would have bought," which like you said is not a $500,000 house, it's probably something half that price. And you could do that so very quickly and do it from a position of stability because there's no debt, your personal residence is covered, that sort of thing. That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah, that's great. And I really appreciate that insight. Um One of the things that I did look at is like if I kept the house how fast could I pay off the rental house and my primary house?

>> I had that thought, too.

Well, what's the answer? >> If I double down on it, the answer is 18 years. Oh.

How- However, if I sell the rental property now and then put everything into the primary house, I could pay it off in 10.

I like plus plus pay off the loan?

Um if I sell the house, I could pay off the loan and have my primary paid off in 10 years. But if I >> I'm saying. Let me let me ask you a question, McKinsey. I feel like I feel like we've talked around this enough. I thought Jade's answer's fantastic. I have a question for you.

When you dialed us up today, which way were you leaning? What were you going to do? What were you thinking you were going to do, but you wanted to get our take?

I have been So I've been noodling on this for about a month. I have been torn until about 2 days ago and I was leaning towards selling it. >> Mhm. Then can I just tell you something?

It's It's probably 55/45. Okay. So that

The reason I asked that question is because you've already gotten great advice. There's nothing I can add to what Jade said. I thought she said it beautifully. I agree with Jade. But I want to know what you were thinking before you called.

>> Mhm. And when I ask that and the answer, Jade, is the same thing that you say

Yeah. then I say I know Jade's right. No offense, McKinsey. You're emotionally involved, she's not. She's got experience, we've got principles.

But I guess I'm trying to help you see that your gut, your head were aligned

and they were right. And I'm just going to tell you you just got coached to the same position you were even though you're going to say 55/45.

The 45 is some type of doubt, some type of fear, some type of influence from some other thing. The 55 is McKinsey.

So that's all I'm going to say.

And I I really appreciate that um cuz I probably do get in my head about it a little too much. >> do. Yeah, welcome to the club.

Yeah, I think the thing that I overthink, which I probably should have included this earlier on, too, is the money that I make is relatively new for me, but it is I think it's very

sustainable for the next 20 years.

>> Uh-huh. And I say that to say I haven't

put away as much for retirement as I would have liked. And I'm even though I'm going to work for 20 more years, I see myself like in my later years keeping this house is going to give me good income to supplement 401k and other investments. >> What's going to give you more income?

What's going to give you more in- ability to put away is your actual income. >> That's right. >> You having that at your disposal, not having the stress of $300,000 of debt because the thing you have to remember, McKinsey, is debt changes the the way

you make decisions. It changes the choices you make. It changes everything.

When you have $300,000 of debt and $850,000 of a home loan and another $500,000, it changes all the decisions that you make. And you need clarity. And so the way you get clarity is you clear out the debt. Then you can see, "Okay, what do Now I can see very clearly, there's not this negative fear influence." [music] And it really does open the path up for you.

>> [music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey Trusted Agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com

All right, our Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by W Y Refi. If defaulted private student loans have taken over your life W Y Refi can help you breathe again with a low fixed rate plan that fits your budget. Visit wyrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y R E F Y {dot} com {slash} ramsey. Not available in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Trevor in Utah. He says, "I recently spent a total of $6,000

on two luxury watches, which I paid for in cash. The purchase hasn't impacted our finances in any way. My wife and I are in our 30s and earn over $200,000 a year. We contribute 15% of our income to

retirement. We pay extra towards our mortgage every month and carry no other debt. I haven't told my wife about the watches yet. How do I bring this up to her?" >> [laughter] >> I hope they're his and hers. Listen, Ken. Okay, so let's >> got like major acid reflux on behalf of

this guy. I need some Pepto immediately.

>> Let me frame it up first. Okay, first off money-wise, like dollars-wise

fine. Uh no biggie, right? You're you

you check every box on the financial responsible adult checklist that I can see. I'm sure you're generous. I'm sure you're on some sort of a budget. Those are the only two you didn't mention outright. Um >> [snorts] >> I wonder I don't know. Ken and I talked

in an earlier segment about Sam and I having separate um fun money. And I don't know if this is a case where you're like, "Hey, I just saved up my fun money for a while or this was money that was kind of budgeted over to me and I just stacked it up and bought these watches." Fine, if that's what you did. Uh my biggest question is if that wasn't the case and you just strolled through the, you know, through the checking account, you just took it out and she never noticed. That's kind of weird.

That's kind of weird. >> written in saying, "How do I bring this up?" This is this >> 100%. Anybody that's going, "How do I bring this up?" It's like uh so your wife didn't know that you were going to go buy two watches? I mean, it's for him, not even one for her. >> [laughter] >> Well, I don't know what he's doing. I don't know if he's reselling them. It does We just don't know.

>> more. Okay, let's role-play it.

>> Okay, so if I if I flush the Pepto-Bismol out of my brain and I go, "Okay, what would I do?" Um You went to Las Vegas, you got caught up in the moment and >> bought two watches. >> two not with winnings or maybe it was winnings. Oh no, it's a new It's a non-conversation if it's winnings.

>> Okay, non- So let's say >> $3,000 out of our account for two watches and I didn't tell Stacy ahead of time um And it's been a little while. >> You know I'm having a problem with this because there's just no scenario under the sun by which that happens. No, me neither. But I guess I'm going to say, "Hey, listen.

I did something spontaneous uh pre-impulsive. I feel great about it or I feel whatever." He's got to be honest. He isn't including your wife I think he's just got to be really, really honest and say, "Hey, how do you feel about this?" Because here's what I do know about luxury watches, he can resell those.

>> Well Oh no, trust me. I have a friend in Atlanta who made who made a nice living buying nice watches. But he has two for $6,000. It's not that that that nice.

I'm thinking of a nice watch.

Well, but I'm just saying like uh those are nice watches. He can He can move those. >> He can move those? Okay. >> 100%. I'm thinking about the nice ones.

Yes, but it's not a car. [laughter] That's true. It's not a car you drive off the lot. There's no depreciation in luxury watches. >> Yeah. So um He hasn't said that he plans to resell them. I'm just saying no. I'm saying when he goes to her, he's got to go, "Hey, here's what I did.

I should have told you.

I'm telling you now.

Here's why I did it." He's got to explain his why. >> he did it. That's the advice. Your first piece is >> to tell her why. Figure out why did you do this and not tell her. So that that way when you bring the conversation up you can speak from an honest place. That's all I got, Ken.

I This is so foreign to me. It's like someone asking me, "How do you solve a trigonometry problem?" The answer is, "I don't know." No idea. >> couldn't do it if my life depended on it. So there's no scenario by which I um

I'm just trying to think. Okay. I'll tell you what. I did make a purchase

almost the exact amount of money exact amount of money. >> Okay, tell us more. And I didn't tell Stacy, but it was a surprise. Was it for

her? For the family.

>> Oh, okay. >> So this is not like two nice watches. It was a It was a >> Oh, I know what it was. >> it is. I don't want to share it. You can share it. Come on. >> I don't you know, Stacy's really private. So I'm not. I would be like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Anyway, so the point is How'd she react? >> Well, it was it's back to the previous call where I said, "Hey, I'm doing something cuz I had to ask her where the checkbook was." >> Understood. Wow.

>> [laughter] >> Well, because I don't write checks. >> Yeah. So you're like, "I'm going to do this thing. It's going to Did you tell her how much it would cost?" >> No. I just said, "Trust me." And she does.

Like she knows I'm not going to go do something stupid with money. So I said, "I'm going to make a you know, pretty substantial purchase and you just got to trust me and I need a check for it and I need you to stay out of the you know, like keep doing do your little recon couple days from now which point it will allow me to reveal it and it's really something fun and exciting for the family. And you agree.

And by the way, my family loves it.

Great. >> It wasn't for me. >> Yeah, it was And how'd she react when she saw what you spent and what you spent it on? >> She absolutely loved it. >> Great. But true story. Had I gone to her

ahead of time and said, "I want to spend this on that." She would have tried to talk me out of it. >> Yeah. Cuz she has a few times before.

That makes sense. So But but that's not this, is it? Wait, he didn't He didn't tell us enough. He should have >> Okay.

Uh Trevor, wherever you are, call in and tell us more, please. But but here's why I told my story on this thing that I bought. Had Stacy walked out and seen it when I showed it to her and had she been like "Uh-uh. What are you doing?

What did you spend on this?" You would have taken it back. >> 100% I would have. >> So Trevor, you need to be prepared to take back these watches if it doesn't sit right with his wife. I I almost didn't land the plane.

You landed it. >> Right? But does that make sense? >> I was doing this with the air traffic controls.

>> But my point is is as long as you're willing to backtrack it and you can backtrack it, then all is well. All is well. Agree.

you and the Warshaw family will very much enjoy this. How is that?

>> Trust me. They're going to love it when they come over. All right, cool.

>> They're just going to absolutely love it. Okay, great. I was like, are you are you going to I'll tell you on the commercial. >> Great. Thank you. >> Uh let's go to Danny in Minneapolis.

Stacy, do we have time for Danny? Yes, we can Yeah, we can do that. Danny, how can we help?

Hi Jade. Hi Ken. How are we doing today?

Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you? Awesome. I um I'm 21 years old. I turn

22 next month. Um

and I live at my parents' house. I rent from them for $500 a month.

Um I'm thinking I've been thinking I've been trying to move out for probably like a year and a half or so.

Um What stopped you?

Um well, the I in order to get into what you guys

would recommend of 25% of your take-home pay, um that's a little bit hard. Now I

think my income can support um rent, but

it's still pretty um What do you make?

>> pretty steep pretty steep where I live.

So um 2025 it was 50,000 after taxes. So I

have I have a bunch of different income

sources um cuz I'm self-employed. >> Okay. Is that steady for you? 50,000?

Sorry, what was that? >> Is that steady for you? 50,000?

A year? >> Yeah, so yeah, so I'm I'm only expecting it to go up. Um there's no reason it shouldn't.

But it's not steady month to month. So it's very like um like in the winter it slows down cuz I have a detailing company. So in in the spring it's super busy. Um and then I have I

have other sources. >> So here's what you got to do. You know those winter months when it slows down and you have a good idea how much time you will have? Mhm. Start finding some supplementary supplementary work.

So that we don't have a dip in income.

>> Mhm. Or if it is, it's it's negligible and you can budget for that. >> Mhm. Yeah, whenever you have irregular income having a fund set aside of what you know that gap is going to be and keeping that replenished all the time is is so good to have. Um yeah, I like that

you're trying to keep it at the 25% rule. Just make sure that when you make the jump you're ready. You're going to have first and last month's rent and all of that other stuff and budget to make sure that you can truly afford it before you make the leap.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are, too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is.

"I'm going to save money." or "I'm going to get my financial act together." But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win and our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need.

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>> [music]

>> Everybody.

Yes, you.

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Ryan is up in Ottawa, Ontario. Ryan, how

can we help?

Hey, how are you? Good. How are you today? Good, thank you. Um just kind of had a question and trying to get different um you know, just if I can get some navigation through it. Doing a cohabitation agreement with a partner there.

Um just you know, between the finances.

Ah, interesting. So just to make sure I understand your girlfriend you're thinking of having her move into where you live. Well, she has been already, right? >> Okay. But also it's like you know, it's something that I personally feel should be put in place. Okay. In writing.

Yes. What is that What is that entail?

I've I've not uh Interestingly enough, I've not heard of one of those. >> So is it just a contract that she'll pay X amount of rent?

No, not even that. But just in case, you know, uh we break up or something a um just to make sure that I'm protected from my assets and everything like that.

Especially if she'll be living with me. Why would your assets be in trouble or in under threat if she's living with you? >> Is it different in Canada?

Yes, a little bit different in Canada, yeah. >> Oh, well enlighten us.

Um well, you know, if somebody does live with you for uh an extended period of time, they might be able to take some of your assets, right? >> Well, what kind of assets? Like you know, like your house. Oh, like split it split >> divide up something like that.

>> How long? Like after 10 years? Is it like a common law thing?

>> that. Yeah, common it basically becomes common law. Yeah, but how long?

Uh after like 3 4 years, I do believe.

>> Wow. Okay. There's there's a possibility of it, right? Yeah, sure.

>> still I I I don't know. People are have different opinions on it, right? Just I want to make sure that How long?

>> it's not I wouldn't do it. I I'm just going to tell you my opinion. I would not live with somebody for 3 years or whatever like whatever the Canadian law is. Like If if if I wasn't interested in marrying them, I sure as heck would not live with them in in that period of time and then you're just it's it's just like you're on the high wire without a safety net.

Like I so so relationally

I need to make my decision prior to that. How long have you been together?

Uh about the time about that time. You guys have been together 3 4 years? And she's been living with you that entire time? Yes. Oh, so you're feeling it creep up.

You're like, "Wait a minute. Let me get my stuff in writing just in case." Well, I got Yeah, it's been a concern.

>> Well, wait a second. >> But even even still, right?

No, hold on. Wrong. This is all so foreign to me. Forgive my American brain, but also I'm a bit old-fashioned. So, here do you want to marry this girl? Yes or no?

>> Yes. Yes. Then put a ring on it. Now.

What's stopping you? >> What are we What are we waiting on? Yeah, tell us what's stopping you. >> let me Can I say this really quick? You sound like a guy who's not sure he wants

to marry you. Because the phone call was, "Hey guys, uh should I get a cohabitation agreement with this woman who's been living with me because Canadian law says if she lives with me as long as she has right now, if we break up, she gets some of my assets and I want to protect my assets." Nowhere in there did I hear a guy who wants to to to spend the rest of his life with this woman.

Mhm. Well >> Oh, no, hold on. This we're getting somewhere. What does that mhm mean?

Oh, just I just listening to the opinion, right? >> Do you not see my Do you not see how it comes across? Yes, sir. I have a a something I want to add though.

What do you do for a living?

Uh I'm I'm in the banking construction.

Interesting. So, I'm trying to find out if you're just a guy who's interested in details and not really emotion. Like I'm like if this guy is an accountant, I get it cuz he's just calculating just thinking all You know what I'm saying? I think it's I think out of nine out of 10 I don't think it's a reflection of what I do.

>> I Yeah. Um I think nine out of 10 women I wish I could poll a bunch of women on this very call. >> There's women out in the in the in the audience.

No. >> They all shook their heads. >> said no. Yeah. So, here's my point. I'm

going to shake my head too just to add to the fire. >> So, here's my point. I'm actually trying to save you.

Oh. I don't think you want to marry this girl. Okay.

And if you do, just go ahead and marry her. We might We might be totally wrong.

[laughter] >> could be wrong. I'm just saying you Your

question was about a cohabitation agreement. >> Yeah. Not Has she >> Should we have separate finances when we marry? You didn't ask us about that. Has

she asked about marriage?

Oh, yes, we talked about it. What'd she say? Oh. 100% right. It's It is the plan.

When? Do you guys have kind of a horizon? Not yet. Okay, but she definitely wants to marry you and you definitely want to marry her. Yes. What's What do you think stopping you? Is it like a money thing?

Is it We want to pay off debt or we want to do this?

Honestly, I There's some days that I can't give that answer. You know, maybe I should have thought about that a little bit more before calling in. I Maybe. I mean, it's something It's food for thought. We're not Hey, we're not judging you. We're not It's just It really is a something I think we uncovered something that

does require a little bit more thought.

We You thought you were calling for one thing and you got another. Yes, let me say this. In the meantime, you should do some sort of agreement if if that's what you feel like is going to cover you. Yeah, we should circle back.

That is the goofiest law I've ever heard. Don't mind saying it, but it is the law of the land. So, yeah, I would get something to protect your your assets pretty quickly. Although, given the what I've heard today, I don't know that that's not going to create a bunch of tension.

It might. It has. Oh.

Ryan, it keeps getting >> [laughter] >> I felt like maybe I was the crazy one.

And you're not crazy, Ryan, but I'm sitting there going now you've got to bring up a cohabitation agreement with her to protect your assets after having talked marriage.

Are you at least engaged?

>> It's It's always been a thing that I've wanted though just like not to say, but I just, you know, I've worked hard for, you know, what I have, I believe, right? So, and

But have you at least proposed? It's one thing to get married, but have you even propo- Oh, Ryan. That's the only thing he's been certain about on this entire call. Was that Did you hear that answer?

Now, what's No. Now, what's I could understand like I'm not ready to to actually do the ceremony, but what's kept you from proposing? He doesn't know. >> Just the timing of everything, I feel. I know and you know, you can't put anything like and say hey, you know, it's it's never the perfect time. It's so it could always be the perfect time. >> Yeah, how about tonight? 7:00 on the dot

and you drop DOWN ON ONE KNEE. [laughter] DO YOU HEAR THAT ANSWER? He's laughing.

>> get him a brown bag on the other end of that call. He is hyperventilating.

You want to know what I would do if I were in your shoes, Ryan? I'm going to tell you if I were if I turned into you today, I would call up my counselor,

Vanessa, and I would say, "Help me out.

I just talked to these folks and they really are making me think, why am I not proposing? Why am I not getting married?

What's going on? I thought it was a money thing. I think maybe I just don't know. Help me help me unpack this." Yeah, Ryan. Sure. It's the best thing you've heard this entire call. I'm having a lot of fun, but listen, I am concerned. If I

could play older brother, if you were my younger brother, I'd go, "Hey man, I don't want you committing yet like on anything. Cohabitation agreement or anything because there's something that's catching you and it doesn't mean it's bad. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, but I think the advice Jay just gave you, I'm going to endorse that 100%. Let's [snorts] get with a therapist and just straight up lay it out in a safe environment and see if they and you can figure out what is holding you up." Mhm.

Okay. Nothing wrong with you. Yeah, yeah, listen. No shame no shade kind of coming at you, but my man, I know you didn't call for this, but woo, I don't want you to be in any kind of agreement, marriage or cohabitation, and be regretting it.

Okay? And worried about my money and all these things. We're rooting for you.

Call us back and tell us what happened.

>> Yeah, I'd love to hear the other side of the story. Wow. Man.

Hey. It be like that sometimes, Ken.

>> And it's okay. I would rather have someone press pause on a relationship like this. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Woo.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, George Kamel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 12:11.

No discipline [music] seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. >> [music] >> Our quote of the day, Bonnie Pruden.

You can't turn back the clock, but you can wind it up again.

Renee is up in Columbia, South Carolina.

Renee, how can we help?

Hey there, how are you guys? >> Oh, we're having fun. You bet. What's going on with you?

So, [snorts] I'm 57 and I was just let go of from my sales job right before Christmas. I'd only been there 5 months. Oh, I know. I've never been fired before. Oh, man. Well, welcome to the club. I've done it twice and you know, it's no fun,

but there is life on the other side.

Well, that's where I am. I'm trying to decide what to do. Um you know, I don't

not sure I want to remain in sales and I'm looking to I look for job full-time.

Um do I look part Do I look for a job and work part-time? Or do I invest in my side hustle and grow that because then no one can ever fire me again. Well, actually customers can fire you. It's amazing how many calls we take. So, I do want to set the record straight on that because it's a healthy mindset.

Um because here's the answer, Renee. I want you running to something, not away from something. So, couple quick questions. I want Jay to weigh in too. So, rapid fire for a moment here.

Um what is the side hustle?

So, we own a photo booth company. Um we've only been in this area for a year and we haven't started it, but it was a side hustle we did in our previous state that we lived in. Okay, and based on that track record, what do you think uh revenue could be that you could generate once you get it up and going?

I mean, it it just depends. It would probably start small. I think I mean, we did very little with it and we made about 20,000. I mean, we did We didn't even try. Um and it would be very little at first, but as we got up, we could invest in more equipment, have more booths.

Um and um go from there and just see how big we can get it. All right, to our best here. Let's try to do apples to apples. I know it was a different state, different place. Um how how many hours I mean, would you be able to put in more hours of your time

than you did previously that generated the 20,000?

Oh, yeah. It was I mean, I didn't put hardly anything into it. I'd be able to work it full-time. Okay. All right, next question. You said we. Are you in a

double income family?

Yeah, that that's one of the things. We are uh, financially stable. We've you know, we did the baby steps a long time ago. No debt except for the house.

But I grew up with financial insecurity and I can't get that scared person out of my head. I feel like I have to make money. >> Okay. Well, but let's Okay, then let's just sit there for a second. Uh, so are we talking about your husband here? Is that the other income? Okay, how what does he make? Um, somewhere between depending on bonus 230 to 275 a year. And you have no debt.

Um, just a house.

Oh good heavens, Renee. You really You really did [laughter] grow up in a tough situation. I don't even need to ask.

Your husband makes $230,000 and you're worried about a sales job and you have no debt. I'm guessing what's your retirement situation?

Um, we've got um, about 900 in a 401k

and another 100 in investments and 50 something in a money market and then Set yourself free and go try the photo booth thing. Have some fun with that for crying out loud.

>> It is a very fun business. Then go have fun at 57 years young.

You don't need income. You don't need your income. True or false?

Uh, no. It was gravy. So we may have to go out to dinner less or maybe not take a big vacation or um, you know, because

we we have to cut back. >> queen on $230,000 and no debt, Jade. Are

we worried about vacations?

>> Not really. No. Of course we're not. I

think you'll be fine. So >> [laughter] >> How do I get that girl out of my head though? How do I >> You need to You need to tell her the truth a lot. Don't ignore her. Just remind her all the time. That's a good question. >> Remind her all the time. Yeah, because I I truthfully that's where my heart lies and I feel like there's a lot of things pointing into building up this business.

Um, but I just for something about that guaranteed salary that just which I it wasn't a ton, but um, you know, it's just making that decision, but I I'm scared. >> those five months did that job suck the soul right out of your body? Uh,

quite a bit. Quite a bit. >> a feeling. I had a feeling, Renee.

So So I think that I think Jay just said something so incredibly wise. So I'm

actually Can I piggyback off what you said? I feel like I'm getting an assist here. You're assisting me.

You have to tell yourself the truth often and Mhm. I feel like in this call

a minute ago when I walked you through some questions and then we got to the truth of $230,000 and no debt and when I and Jade kind of tag team reminded you of your financial situation, you didn't have any anxiety about money in those moments, did you?

No. So it might be as simple as

some fun like journal or legal pad or

something on your phone, a note on your phone and when you start to feel that old voice of uh, insecurity around money

Um.

you just go back and you look at your numbers. Pull up your investment dashboard. Well, we got 900 and some thousand here. We got 100,000 here. In seven years that's going to be 1.8. You know, and just do a refresh.

Can Can Can I tell you >> from you. I love that advice.

>> Can I tell you a true story, Renee?

>> love it. Sure.

I I had gone through a period where I was dissatisfied.

And the for reasons that it doesn't matter, but I was complaining a lot.

And I made a deal with myself. I said for as much as I complain, I have to say just as much that I'm grateful for and thankful for. And when I did that, it made me realize how much I was complaining >> [laughter] >> cuz I had to say the same thing right back. I think if you make a deal with yourself and you say for each time mentally that I catch myself replaying

whatever the story is that you replay about, you know, not having enough or whatever that fear thought that you have. If you make a deal with yourself and say every time I do this, I'm also going to come back and say, we have 900,000 in our account. My husband makes 275,000. We paid off all of our debt.

Our mortgage is almost right? And combat it. Don't let it win, you know, uh, thoughts and emotions, they're like waves. We can't stop them from coming in, but we get to choose which one we surf, right? You've heard that. It's the same thing. You get to choose and and awareness is key. You know that it's happening. So now it's about capturing it in the moment and going, all right.

That came. I can't stop it from happening, but what I can remind myself is what's true and replace it and dwell on that for a while and spend just as much time if not more dwelling on that than the thought that initially came in and tried to I love that. I got an idea, Jade.

>> What? All right, Renee. Round figures.

I'm not going to hold you to this. This is a fun exercise. You ready?

Mhm.

Based on how many times you and the hubs go out to dinner in 12 months and a nice vacation.

What is that number all in?

Um, maybe 20,000.

And can you recall what you told me you made on the photo booth business that you did nothing with in a previous season of your life? Could you tell me what the number was?

About 20,000. Bingo. What's his name again? >> we launch, we relaunch with new energy

uh, lessons learned and we say to hubs

I'm going to launch the photo booth business and every penny above and beyond just the expenses of the business goes to vacation and dinners. >> love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love that. I'm pretty excited about that idea, Renee. I'll be honest with you. >> That's That's motivating, too.

>> to me while you were talking. I'm like, wait a second. And I didn't know by the way that it was going to match up to 20 and 20, but I thought I thought that the photo booth revenue will easily cover your dinners and your nice vacation you're so worried about.

>> [clears throat] >> Yeah, I'm See, that's why I called you guys cuz I knew you could help me work through this. I'm literally sitting here with my budget in front of me and I literally have asked him probably four times a week, how much do we have? What's in our accounts?

Leave that man alone. Would you leave Would you leave him alone, please and just get [laughter] yourself your own dashboard and your own exercise like Jade just gave you and go launch that business. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm going to do that. Thank you. I mean, I really appreciate I feel so much lighter now. >> Good. That's what we like. We like it.

We like people to call in heavy and float off the phone. >> Float away. I love it. Good job, Ken.

Well, I didn't I Listen, you That was all you. You just threw me a really nice lob pass.

But how funny that How funny that the numbers matched up.

>> I know. >> That made me feel really happy. >> a nice trip to Bora Bora. >> take the rest of the day off after that.

I'm never going to be that lucky again.

>> [laughter] >> Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's the walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 129. Quit Blaming Your Past And Take Control Of Your Money | October 8, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:04:37 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of the breakaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He is my

co-host today. Open Phones 88255225.

So you guys watching Front Row Seat and pulling it up. Uh uh Ken, you did a really cool recording yesterday. They're not going to want to miss. My my good friend Willie was here.

>> Willie Robertson uh of Duck Dynasty fame

uh in town. It was so fun. Uh he's in town to hang with you apparently.

>> Yeah, we had dinner with Pat last night.

>> That's right. So fun.

>> I I just He He's just He's become a close friend over the last several years. But but he I I think on Front Row Seat, you guys are going to be uh >> very entertaining. >> Entertaining.

Fun story. >> Anything you have to do with Willie is always entertaining. Dinner with Willie is entertaining. >> I surprised him with a photo.

Uh that's all we'll say. gave him an envelope, told him to open it, and we legitimately, we did some great research. He was delighted and surprised. Let's put it this way, it was from Willy's athletic past.

And what people don't realize uh is that Willie is a sneaky good athlete according to his brother Jace. And uh you know, Willie can hit the cover off a golf ball, can knock it a mile, >> 300 yard drives. It's nuts. Yeah, it's nuts.

Yeah, >> because I mean usually guys wearing camo don't hit a golf ball that far, but just what do I know? But he's he can he's serious. So, >> and uh we bit competitive too. Little little chirp little chirpy on the golf course. >> I imagine he >> little chirpy >> can can get under somebody's skin. I hit the ground on a warm-up swing and he goes, "Hey, Ramsey 811 call for you dig." >> So, ouch it's four and a half hours of

that. I'm just saying. So, there you go.

Hey, it's going to be great. Check it out. Willie Robinson coming up in the next few weeks. It'll drop on a front row seat recorded yesterday. Joe is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Joe. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing well, guys. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um, recently,

um, my girlfriend and I have been talking about getting married. Um, and I

had always known that there was a discrepancy between me having some debt and her having some money. And uh I've always been trying to postpone getting married because I was trying to take care of the things on my end. And um so

recently uh I really got into you guys

and started digging into the numbers and found out what I really owed. Kind of spooked me a little bit. Wasn't quite as uh as a lot more than I thought it was.

>> How much? >> Um uh $230,000

>> on what, dude?

>> Uh most of it is in student loans. Um how much? Um >> uh you got 180 of it in student loans.

>> You a doctor or a lawyer?

>> I was soon to be a doctor but not uh not

a medical one. So uh worked through an MBA and a PhD uh business PhD because I wanted to go and teach um >> okay >> and and coach uh coach golf in college.

So >> okay. Um, so now we're in this situation

and um, we're starting to think about it more and she's been asking me a lot of questions about I used to be a financial advisor. She she's been asking me a lot of questions about stuff she should invest in and I just told her like she needs to look into uh, the things that you guys have. I suggested that she go and talk to uh, um, you know, to somebody else. Things have changed, laws have changed, and obviously I haven't managed money as well as I would have uh would would like before I start giving people advice.

>> Uh it's a it's a car. Uh a little bit of credit cards. Um >> how much do you owe on the car?

>> The car I owe 34,000 on.

>> Okay. And what do you do for a living?

You're working on your PhD and that's your job now?

>> No, no, I work in uh in retail. I manage

a bunch of retail stores. >> And what's your income?

>> Uh 120 is my salary.

>> Okay. So, you've been asleep at the wheel for quite a while and just in the last few weeks woke up.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. I'm just making sure I'm getting the full picture here. Okay, cool.

>> Yeah. And so, she's in uh she's in a really good spot. Um I've never really known what she's had. I've never really been interested in it, but since she's been asking me all these questions lately, she was asking some questions about Roth versus um you know, just a

regular 401k. And we've been talking through that stuff and one day she was looking through some stuff and I um you know, she was like, "Well, this is what I have invested in this and that." And I was like, "Wow, this is uh it's really cool. You put yourself in a good position." Um I mean, she's got a net worth of about a million dollars and um she's not not quite 40

yet. Um, and she's making, you know, about 160 uh a year as well. So, we've been

talking and I just was like, "Hey, you know, like what do you want to do about this?" Because I don't I hope that we're together forever. I don't ever want to put her in a bad position. I love the woman. I'm just trying to figure out like should we consider if we do get married at prenup or should I just should we wait until I get this debt paid off?

That's was kind of what my question is. I'm trying to figure out what's the best thing to do to protect her. Um, >> what's her what's her take?

>> Well, I mean, we just we just started talking about this. Like, >> yeah, but what did she say?

>> Um, well, she just said she was like, I I understand that it it may take you a

little while to be able to pay this stuff off. Um, and so if it takes a

while and we have to wait, then that's fine. But that's really was her whole her whole thing on that. just said like, "Do you want to wait until you know I get this paid off or do you want to try to do it a separate way?" You know, I I like asked her like, "Is should we consider potentially doing get a prenup?" And she's like, "Well, I never really considered that. I never even thought of it before." And I'm like, "I know." And again, I hope it it works out, but if some crazy reason it doesn't, I would hate for like, you know, to feel like I'm supposed to get half of your stuff when I'm coming in with nothing and you're coming in with a lot.

So, >> yeah. Um, we're going to >> richer for poorer, in sickness and in health.

next 50 years, you're going to share

assets and liabilities for the next 50 years. If you're going to have a high quality marriage and a high probability of building wealth. Now, I'm assuming as a professor with a PhD, when when will you complete your PhD?

>> I'll have another year. probably a year, not a well, it depends on how long the dissertation takes, but probably about a year and a half left. >> Okay. And you'll be making at least what you're making now as a college professor after that, right?

>> Certainly. And I have flexibility within my schedule that I thought I'd be able to actually do both. Um because there's a lot of options online to be able to to teach courses that way. >> So your income could go up substantially then. >> Certainly. >> At that point, >> I expect it to go up at least 100.

>> All right. We have never told in the 30 years plus we've been on the air told someone to not have a baby because of debt or to not get married because of debt. We have told people to not get married if you can't get aligned on how

we feel about life, careers, saving,

debt, and so forth. And so, um, the if

I'm her, what scares me more than the debt is that you just now woke up.

>> Yeah. >> And you were asleep. That scares me more than the debt. If you told me, I've been scratching and clawing at this and beating on it for 7 months and I'm getting there and I've already paid off 50,000. I'm very aware, problem aware, and the problems in my mirror. Um, I I'd

be a lot more comfortable if I'm her and no prenup is needed. Um, but a prenup's

not going to help in this case. There's not enough differences to do it. So, I think when you guys get comfortable with each other's values and where you're going enough to get married, after you get back from the honeymoon, she writes checks and we pay off all your debt. But your debt should be largely gone by then because it's going to take a little while for you to prove to her that you're awake.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. So, we actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

>> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Jean is in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Jean. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay, so this is a little bit of a crazy story, but I'll try to make it as easy to follow. Um, 10 years ago, my

father-in-law passed away. Um, we he

didn't have a will, but we were able to sell his property with an affidavit of

airship and a deed without warranty. So,

we sold the house to an old family friend. Um, this married couple in the

last 10 years has divorced, the wife moved on, the husband stayed in the house, he passed away early last year.

Um, Friday night we all started receiving phone calls that this property was about to be foreclosed on for unpaid

property taxes and we all wondered what that had to do with us. Well, they never filed the deed. So, the house is still technically under my father-in-law's name.

So, we've tracked down the ex-wife. She

doesn't want anything to do with the property. Um, she's happy to sign the property over to my husband and my sister-in-law, the only two kids of my father-in-law. Um, and same thing with my mother-in-law. They were divorced.

She doesn't want anything to do with the house. So, everybody's on board, but it just goes to my husband and my sister-in-law. So, we are planning on

selling the property and splitting the proceeds. But where the issue comes in

is when they were in high school, they

had a friend who liked to hang out at their house more than his own house. So they started calling him brother. Well,

20 years ago, my husband went into the Marine Corps. We lent him money. Um he

never paid us back and he cut us off

because he didn't pay us back. So he cut us off. Uh my husband was deploying. He was trying to reach out to him. He would never answer his calls. So we haven't had any relationship with him until 10 years ago when my father-in-law died.

And then he my sister-in-law, my

mother-in-law decided that he would get

a cut of the house when we sold it

because he's a quote unquote brother.

Well, we still haven't talked to him in 10 years. >> Did he get a cut the first time it sold?

Yes, he did.

>> Okay. >> So, they split it four ways. Okay.

>> Um, so now everything legally is just in

my husband and my sister-in-law's names because they're the only kids. So, everyone's on board. We're selling it.

Um, it's gone up in value

three and a half times because it's in Dallas County. Um, so it's worth

anywhere from $75 to $100,000 now just

for the land. Um, so my sister-in-law

is thinking we're going to split this three ways. >> No, we're not >> with the quote unquote brother.

>> No, we're not. >> And that's how my Yeah. That's how my husband feels. >> Yeah. No, we're not. >> And I don't know when we have this conversation with her. >> I We don't Your your husband does. It's his sister, not yours. Right. He sits down with her and says, "I'm not doing this. He stiffed me. He's not a brother.

He's not in this deal. He already got more than he deserved with the first round. No, I'm not splitting with him."

And if you don't like that, kiss my butt. I am not splitting with him.

>> And I know you're right. And I knew you were going to say that. And that's what everyone else has said. I think I'm the

one handling everything. Like I said, my husband is a >> No, you're not handling this. He's handling his sister, not you.

>> Oh, yeah. I know. I mean, just with the the paperwork side and finding out what they needed to do and then she's just saying, "You're so great. You're so wonderful. I'm so blessed by you." And

so, it's just eating me up knowing >> it doesn't need to eat you up. You haven't done anything. There's nothing to eat up.

>> This is an unreasonable crazy

>> but request and we're not doing it.

It's ridiculous. It was ridiculous it was done the first time. And what's really ridiculous is that y'all are ending up with this property again. And would you for God's sakes have a lawyer close the deal this time so that it's done right?

>> Y'all people you people suck at business, don't you? I mean, this is horrible. >> No, we had a lawyer.

>> No. If you're if you had a lawyer, he should be in jail for m for malpractice.

How do you do How do you years later discover a deed is not recorded?

>> Come on. >> Angry. >> Yeah. This is crazy. So, we have to do this properly this time. I don't want to ever see this piece of property again.

It needs to go away >> because your name or your husband's name is in the paper right now for unpaid property taxes.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. How in the world?

That's the most I've done thousands of real estate transactions. I've never heard one that was this bad. This sucks.

Yeah, you guys really I mean how and you and the irony is you end up back with it. And I'm not sure how many different signatures you've got to get from God

who has equity of title in this is Georgia. Yeah. You need a really good

lawyer and you need somebody that's ready to write title insurance on this process this time so that we are ensuring that this title is properly transferred. Y'all y'all are but honey

you you don't your your husband just simply sits down with sister and says no I'm not you know boychild got all he's going to get. >> It's like Eddie Haskell gone arai.

There's a whole generation of people have no idea what I'm talking about. Look that up. But the the fact that he got money the first time around to me is absolutely ludicrous. Just because he enjoyed spending time over there and they felt bad for this guy.

There's a backstory that we're not aware of. We didn't have time to get to. I'm guaranteeing it. But at this point, her husband is expecting you to say that you did the DNA and ancestry and found out he was actually a brother.

>> Right. But this is just this is this is like some guy who just hung around like a bad penny. >> Yeah. I I got a feeling I got a feeling mama knows something she ain't saying, but I may be wrong.

Yeah. Oh, there's a This is just wicked straight. >> This could be like a Lifetime miniseries. >> Yeah.

Yeah.

I can tell you that.

>> That's the truth.

>> Great. Crate. >> Wow. >> So, yeah. Moral of the story is um bad

deals have a high rate of resurrection.

>> Mhm. >> They do. When you do something that's a bad idea, it does not go away.

>> Yeah. it comes back again. It's like a bad penny, so to speak. >> All right.

I have a follow-up question because I think this affects a lot of people. Not this situation, but I think the fear of confrontation, Dave, is what's underneath this whole deal besides all the bad business. And and you and I, it's very clear for us. It's very black and white.

We know exactly what we would say, but we we you know, we eat confrontation for breakfast. How would you coach somebody uh like this husband? He's sitting here and he's not getting it.

gone for a decade. What would you say to somebody who has a really hard time stepping into this confrontation? How would you coach him?

>> It's a great question. I um here, you

know, when I first started our business, I thought as a southern Christian guy

that I was supposed to be nice to everybody. And what by how that ended up translating was is I was nice to people when I shouldn't have been. And and so I didn't tell them the truth. You know, like you're not doing your job well. And so I'm frustrated. The poor guy doesn't even know he's not doing his job well.

And so we changed it around here. To be unclear is to be unkind. If you work for

Ramsey, we're going to be real clear with you. We're not going to be mean.

We're not going to cuss and yell and scream and throw stuff at you, but if something's going on, we're going to tell you.

To be unclear is ultimately to be unkind

because there's a whole bottled up resentment at mom and sister for the first time Goober got money.

And so you've been unkind to everybody

else in the family by not standing up and being clear that this is wrong.

>> Yeah. And so when you stand on principle and you tell the truth kindly, gently,

forcefully, boldly, there's a cleanliness to it. And the way you people have been conflict avoiding has created a tangled

barrel of fish hooks. And you don't want to live in a barrel of fish hooks. You want to live in a clean land, a land of cleanliness. And conflict, positive good

conflict will bring that for you.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith. And I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapists can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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The allnew Every Dollar is here, and it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features in the new version to help you make faster progress with your money on the Ramsay plan. We're not only going to help you do a budget, we're going to help you do the budget in such a way that you apply and work the baby steps

and work the whole Ramsay plan. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the app store or at Google Play. Elizabeth is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

>> I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys?

Thank you Dave and Ken for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Um, so for a little background, I'm currently a stay-at-home mom. I work a couple times a month and my husband's in the military. Um, we currently have our mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is

$12,000 and the interest rate on that is 1.6.

Um, we have a $12,000 emergency fund and

after listening to your show pretty religiously over the last only few weeks, but um we thought perhaps we

should be taking that 11,000 from our emergency fund to pay off our car.

However, with the current um government shutdown, we are just wondering if we should maybe put a pause on that route until we're absolutely sure he's going to get paid. Um, >> well, he's going to get paid and he'll get paid all the way through. It's just a matter of when.

>> Yeah. So, when they reopen, they'll they'll cover all the back pay. They're not going to skip a check. But right now, you're not getting anything. Correct.

>> Yeah. We just have I'm working a couple times a month, so we still have a little bit coming in, but um we just wanted to We don't want to drain our emergency fund. >> No, you're you're not working the baby steps right now. You're in the middle of a storm. you push pause on everything and pile cash up >> and and eat and keep the lights on and don't buy anything.

>> Okay? >> And just hold hold on until the storm goes by. Now, when the storm goes by, you push play, which that day you would take all but a thousand out of your emergency fund, apply it to the car, and start working your baby steps, right?

>> Okay. >> But only only after he starts getting his pay.

>> Yeah. But we were thinking like before the shutdown happened, we were thinking like should we do the 11,000 and pay it off or should we just throw like you know extra payments from >> No, you should pay it off budgeting.

>> Okay. >> But not right now. Not until he gets paid. But once he's getting paid, you need to work the baby steps the way we talk about.

>> Okay. >> They're not going to shut it down again for a while once they open it up. So you're going to be okay.

>> Okay. I love to hear it.

>> Well, I mean, they can't. It's not how it works. So, they're not going to kick the can down the road for 4 days. It's going to be months or years or whatever.

>> So, >> okay. >> Yeah. So, yeah, but for right now, I would push pause. Anytime folks are facing a storm, you're you you know, you push pause and you pile cash up to get ready for the storm, whatever the storm is.

And then when the storm subsides and get the other side of the sun comes out, push play again. You drain all that cash that you've stacked up. Throw it at your smallest to largest debt in that order and get going again and get the whole thing moving.

from government employees who have worked our system for years >> and uh they're smiling.

They're saying, "I am not affected by

not getting a paycheck for a week or two because I have plenty of money and I have no debt." >> Yeah, it's it's true. I mean, uh this is why you really have an emergency fund here. This is what we'd call a big big emergency when you have maybe a two week or a month. just for historical context to calm a lot of people because I know a lot of people look to us for financial advice in the midst of the headlines and

this is right out of the headlines before we came on today uh in a press

conference uh Trump did say he threw it out there maybe we don't pay back pay so

this has been said by the president so people start getting real uptight and I understand it's your paycheck um but this is why the 3 to six months emergency fund is so vitally important but to give historical context since uh

1981 there have been four major government shutdowns. The longest one in 2019 uh for just over a month. So most of the

time this is all political posturing

both parties. I'm not taking a position so that way nobody needs to get mad.

What happens is they're leveraging and this is a bit of a poker contest as to who gets what in this next continuing resolution bill. So hang in there. Uh

historically, Dave, we've never seen one longer than a month. Uh we'll see where it goes.

>> And that was under the cap under Captain Bluff, who's in the office now. I mean, he will bluff anything. >> He'll look at a rock and bluff it. I never saw anything like it.

So, >> um >> that's a great point. >> I mean, he's just unbelievable. But yeah, so, you know, don't don't play chicken with this guy, right? >> He'll run over you.

>> So, um whether you agree with him or not, I mean, this is this is the pattern. True. He's he's not a real good negotiator. He's really good at running over things and uh calling it negotiating.

>> Yeah, that's exactly right. So, so hang in there. Don't get too hung up on the headlines.

And they're the ultimate both sides of the aisle. They are all about preserving themselves. So once the public gets hot enough or the issue becomes too much of a uh of a toxic type thing for their

base, then they start to cave in. So I've just seen too many of these. Don't freak out. Just take it from me on this one. Don't freak out. >> Yeah. Never. I mean, you know, >> control what you can control is what we've been teaching. >> Always control the controllables. And uh when you're facing drama or trauma, facts are your friends. What are the facts? The facts are there's only been a handful of these ever uh since 1981. And

um that's a long time.

>> Um like what 50 years now, right? And so

um the last 50 years, four or five times. And one time under this same president in 2019, it stayed down for an

entire month, which is un that was unprecedented at the time. Um, but >> and the sad thing about this is Dave is it affects our good men and women in the military, a lot of great federal employees. You you hate it for our federal employees. >> But I challenge any of you over the next week to find something that has negatively affected your life.

If you're not in that camp, because I'm not minimizing it, but those of us who don't draw a paycheck from the federal government, it's hard to find evidence that it's been shut down. Yeah.

True. True. Uh Craig's in San Antonio.

Hi, Craig. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, I have two inherited retirement

accounts. Um I've had them for about two years now.

All my research and discussions with the financial institutions that they're with

show that I have to withdraw the money in 10 years and that it's basically a taxable event every time. And I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the tax hit on this. I was hoping there'd be something easy like converting it to an IRA of my own or maybe putting it in my

daughter's 529, but nope.

>> As far as I can tell, it's just all taxable. the whole way.

>> You have gotten correct information, sir.

>> Okay. >> The only thing that could The only thing it could have been done is if it was converted to a Roth before the person died, >> right? It's a traditional >> and it's a traditional. That's why you're under the Biden Secure Act, >> passed under Joe Biden, and the Secure Act calls for it to be liquidated within 10 years. >> And so, I mean, you could take out a tenth a year and maybe not have a tax back bracket creep. Um, what's it invested in?

It's about 2/3 in a growth fund, stocks,

uh, and the rest of it is in a bond

fund, and then an S&P 500 fund.

>> How much is in there?

>> About 550.

>> Okay. It's a lot. Well, it's a blessing to get that. It's sad. It's all taxable, but it is. And so, um,

who who left it to you? Your dad or mom or somebody? >> My father. Yes.

So, um, you're you're really not paying your taxes. You're paying the taxes that he had never paid yet, >> right? >> That's all it is. So, he that money's never been taxed because it was put in pre-tax and it's grown without tax on it until you withdraw it and you get the benefit of withdrawing it.

So, um, what I would do is run some numbers with your Smart Investor Pro. Go to ramseolutions.com and click on Smart Vster and find a Smart Vster Pro in your area. sit down and go, "Okay, I want to get this into good mutual funds and I want a uh withdrawal system. Do I need to do it over 10 years or can I just do it all at once and get it over with?

Um, how much is it?

it is all ordinary income. So it'll just bracket creep.

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>> Today's question comes from Tanner in South Carolina. My wife of seven years and I disagree on how my business should be run. I own a photography and videography company that I've had for 10 years. I've built this business from the ground up and it's my baby.

My wife believes that it's our business now that we are married and that she should be able to make decisions on whether I can book a certain job or not or how I communicate with my customers. She's also uh having an opinion on how much I charge my customers and how I process the final product. I'm glad to work with her on a number of jobs that I book which impacts our time together. But I draw the line on how I run my business daytoday.

I'm sorry. I had I I had to get through that without laughing. No, you're not wrong. And it was very hard for me to get through that, Dave. Uh, no, you're not wrong.

Uh, wanting to run the business you built. I mean, now obviously your wife, she she has an opinion. I think she's entitled to her opinion. Uh, but that doesn't mean that her opinion should sway the way you run the business if you guys didn't enter into this business together.

Uh again, a say on your personal finances and all that 100%. But in this situation, uh I don't know why I'm laughing. I feel bad for you. This is a tough situation.

>> Sounds like she's a handful. What it sounds like. >> Yeah, this is tricky.

>> Yeah. No, here here's how you can parse it out. This will help you. There's a lot of really good data and academic

teaching on small business. One of the

fathers or grandfathers of that space is a guy named John Ward who wrote a little book called Family Business. In the little book, he has a vin diagram with three circles, owner, family, and worker or team member and they

overlap the three circles of vin diagram, a classic vin diagram, right?

And so someone can be an owner, someone

can be a family member, someone can be a team member, and someone can be all three or two of those things. You are all three. She is not.

She's one of the owners and she's a

family member, but she is not a team member.

Okay? Now, here's how that works. In other words, she speaks into the business as a spouse.

because she doesn't work there,

which is not operational control.

Now, if you're a wise man from a standpoint of running a business and from a standpoint of being married, you will listen to her counsel and sometimes take it.

Uh, Proverbs 31 says, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. the heart of her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain. Sharon Ramsay has some opinions about things that we do at Ramsay, but she does not tell us where to order copier paper

and she does not develop marketing strategy and she does not enter her

discussion into pricing unless I ask her about pricing on, oh, we're getting ready to take the price up on these books because everybody else has.

Oh, yeah. Well, we probably ought to do that. But that's my wife speaking into

my business. It is not a member of the

team that is down here working every day speaking into the operations. She has gotten confused.

She has taken more ground than she has been given.

Okay. So unless she comes down there and gets on the payroll and becomes the CEO

or the COO or something else, at that

point she would be all three things and she would be rightly speaking into the day-to-day operations of the business.

But otherwise, she's just your spouse talking to her spouse and saying, "Hey, if I were you, here's how I would do it." And I think this is wise,

>> but um I think she's gotten confused about her place on this. And it's not a woman's place. It's a man's place. Either one. It could be roles could be reversed. You should talk to your husband. Ladies, if you're running a business and get their input on some things, but they don't need to come down there and talk about which customers we

take or so forth, unless you ask them. I

mean, if I'm having a a customer that's high maintenance or kind of got a, you know, problem or something, I may discuss that with my wife and she may go, "Well, I wouldn't put up with that crap." And I go, "You know what? That's kind of what I was thinking. And I'm not going to put up with it either. Okay.

And uh but but that's different than you're an idiot for running the business the way you've run it for 10 years and I'm going to come in here and show you how to do it.

>> Yeah. >> Out of control. >> I wish I knew more. I wish this was a phone call. What I would be attempting to do is find an area where she's super excited in the business and uh give her more input there. Uh maybe some a little

bit more control there as long as it's not affecting the dayto-day. >> No, I wouldn't. I know. I know you wouldn't. I'm saying I try to find it. I didn't say it. Absolutely. >> I would ask her input as my spouse and I

want to trust the >> input of my virtuous wife.

>> Therefore, I will have no lack of gain.

But part of being virtuous is not acting this way. >> Right. But she's given input on everything. >> I know. Like you're >> he laid out the entire business. she's given input on. >> Yeah, exactly. I mean, product design, pricing, which customers to take, what schedule to run, that's ops control.

That's a COO. That's not spousal control. And unless you work there, you shouldn't be speaking into that. >> Yeah. >> And you shouldn't assume that you're speaking into that. >> I think a marriage therapist might be in order on this. >> Oh, yeah. I think Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. We won't disagree on that one. >> Yeah. If you're a business owner or a leader and you got a question about running a business, including family business. As you can tell, I got lots of opinions and I'm right. Um, you can u

you can join us on the Entree Leadership podcast that I do where I take calls from small business people about business questions. 8449441070

or go to entreleership.com/ask and fill out the form. We'll call and make you a caller on the Entree podcast.

By the way, that particular question, >> if that were a real call with both of them with you, that'd be absolute YouTube gold. It would melt the internet.

>> Well, I've done plenty of them with family business. I can tell you had some really interesting ones over the years.

Jared is in New York City. Hey, Jared.

How are you?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, thanks for uh taking my call. Um,

so, uh, some last couple weeks have been

a little bit of a little bit of a whirlwind. So, my wife is pregnant early on in pregnancy. So, super excited about that. 14 weeks along.

>> Yay. >> Where it's been a bit of a whirlwind is um, they found something that um, as long as more tests to come, but you know, God willing, everything else is okay. Um it's something that when the baby's born may need some surgery now or is expected to need some surgery now nothing you know more than routine again as long as >> everything else is okay. Um so you know

I am you know grappling with that of course on mental side of things but you know >> yeah so my wife and I are though currently going through baby step two.

Um so there's a financial question on

how to plan. Um you know I was thinking like setting up a scing fund for kind of approximations of what it could potentially be while still paying off debt but you know just kind of not sure even where to start. We tell folks when they're having a baby to push pause and don't work on the baby steps and pile up cash. And when baby and mama come home,

we pay the bills and what's left we push play again and apply it to your debt snowball. >> So, I want you I want you to stop right now and just pile how big a pile of cash can you make. You can't make it one too big because you're going to put it all on debt if you don't use it on the baby, >> right? in in just a few I mean and now about seven months, right?

>> About Yeah. A >> little less. >> Yeah. And so six months, whatever. I mean, so yep. For six months, we're going to pile cash. Baby and mama come home, we pay whatever bills the insurance does not pay because you got co-ay and you got deductibles to meet, right? >> Mhm. >> And then whatever's left after the baby and mommy are home safe and sound. And

um then you're ready to go and you you

just push play again and you fly it right down through there and takes your breath away, Ken. >> Oh, you'll make it. Kids are expensive.

Just deal with it. But you'll make it. I promise. >> Just I Man, nothing scares you more than a baby. >> It's the truth.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, best-selling author, and host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today.

Liz is in Nashville. Hi, Liz. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I was just calling because with me and my husband combined, we have a debt of 562,000.

Um, that includes our mortgage, but besides the mortgage, most of that debt is his. Um, we're following your baby steps. We've been following it all year, but it doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere. And if anything, right now we're back at the same amount that we had at the beginning of the year. Um, I

I I didn't I just don't know what to do.

I don't I don't know what to do anymore.

>> I'm sorry. How could you get back into debt? I'm When you're getting out of debt. I'm confused.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Well, we've had situations with our cards come up and then he he loves to use his credit cards

for anything that comes up. So, >> Okay. So, we're going into credit card debt while we're trying to get out of debt. So, he's not really trying to get out of debt. He's running business as usual and you're trying to get out of debt.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have $11,000 of that debt is mine that even even myself

right now, I I just I can't seem to get out of it. And I'm physically >> You said 562,000. How much of that is mortgage?

>> 500,000 is mortgage.

>> Okay. What's the 62,000?

>> Um, so 11,000 is mine and then the >> No, there's not a mine. You're married.

The $11,000 on what?

>> It's basically just credit cards.

>> Okay. So, you have $11,000 on credit cards. What else is out there out of the 62?

>> It It's all credit cards. We only have >> You have $62,000 in credit card debt.

>> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. >> You don't have a car payment? >> That's true.

>> Uh just one car payment. We have a We have $1,000 left on it.

>> Okay. You owe $1,000 on a car. And what do you owe on your student loans?

>> We have no student loans. I paid off my car. >> Okay. So, you basically have $62,000 in

credit card. $61,000 in credit card debt. And what's your household income?

>> Uh I make 82 and he makes 80.

>> Okay. So, $162,000

with a $500,000 mortgage. And And uh how

long ago were you zero credit cards

debt?

>> Well, I was at zero credit cards last year. Um he's always had credit card debt. >> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married for five years now.

>> Okay. So, when you're married, it's all

ours.

You understand me? Okay. So, you were never at zero cuz he's always had credit cards cuz we have had credit cards cuz you are married to Mr. Credit card.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've been married 5 years and we have always had credit card debt.

Uh, how much credit card debt did he come into the marriage with?

>> I think at that point it was around maybe 70,000.

So it's it's maintained for about the last five years about the same.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. So in his past he overspent which is what the credit card came from. But we're just going to >> Okay. So how old are you guys?

>> Uh he's 41 and I'm 30.

>> Okay. All right. Well I I this is not a

um a systems problem.

This is a person problem.

It's a behavior problem. Okay? So, your

system of getting out of debt is not going to work until both of you decide you're going to get out of debt. He has not decided that. And so, you got you

you know, you have a marriage issue to sit down and talk to your husband and say, "I want to get on the same page. I want us to get out of debt." And you can't tell me you want to get out of debt unless you put all the credit cards on the table and cut them up right now.

Yeah, we actually did that this weekend.

>> Uh, two quick questions. Give me quick answers here. How long have you been trying to to do the baby steps?

>> Since the beginning of this year.

>> Okay. And then do you guys have separate finances? I'm guessing you do the way you're talking. >> Yeah. >> Yes, we do. >> And then and then one other one I I forgot. Does he use the credit card as just all of his expenses and he's under the guise I'm going to pay it off at the end of the month but he never does. Is that what's going on? He's running everything through it.

>> He was. >> Yeah. >> Not anymore. But >> what how why did he agree to cut them all up last weekend?

>> I I think it's because, you know, he's

41 and I'm just I'm disappointed. I

mean, I just I can't take it anymore,

you know. Um, I have never had debt and

I've even racked up 11,000.

>> Okay, wait a minute. Stop a minute. Okay, I get all that, but he cut up the credit cards last weekend and then you called me and said he keeps going into credit card debt. But it sounds like this guy turned the corner last weekend and said, "I'm getting out of debt. I cut them all up." I'm confused about what you're upset about.

I I guess because I didn't I thought the number was lower than what it is. So

that's >> But you knew that last weekend.

>> Yeah. But I I'm at a point where I don't I don't know what to do. I can't pay off what we what we owe. I I just don't >> Yes, you can. You make $162,000.

You only need $62,000 to pay all this off. So you live on a h 100red and you are debtree in one year. Voila.

>> Yeah. It's fairly easy. It's $5,000 a month and you are debtree in one year. The two of you sit down and do a budget together. Combine your stinking finances and get on the same page and go, "We're going to put $5,000 a month on this debt cuz you cut up the credit cards and I'm over this. I can't sleep. I'm terrified.

I'm done with all this irresponsibility." And you are, too.

Thank you for cutting up the credit cards. Let's get on this and rot lock arms and let's attack this thing and be done. That's how you do it. You make enough money to pay this off in one year. Easy. >> That's right. If you can't live on $100,000 in Nashville, something's wrong with you.

>> Well, I don't I've tried. I've tried and it doesn't it just doesn't add up with daycare, with everything. It It just

doesn't add up.

>> What's your house pay? No, I know what your house payment is. Yes, it you you have not done a budget because the math you're giving me is just not factual.

Okay. You don't You can pay daycare and eat and pay your house payment out of $100,000.

That's $8,000 a month.

Quit your 401k if you're getting a

refund. Reset your W TWS and quit getting a tax refund. Cash out whatever save money you've got in savings. Chop up the credit cards and attack this. So

there's something uh Liz, your your hopelessness is not logical

unless you believe he's really not going to stop, in which case you need to go see a marriage counselor. But if he is uh if he's acting like I'm talking about and he goes, "Yeah, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're going to stop the 401ks. We're not going on any vacations.

We're going to sell so much stuff the kids are afraid they're next. We're getting extra jobs. We're going to live on a written budget. The two of us are agreeing together.

I just cut up the credit cards. Boom. 5,000 bucks a month goes on this. That's $60,000 a year.

That leaves me a h 100,000 to live on.

That's what it takes right there. You just got to go do this now. And but you can't you can't live in the past and be going, "Well, how you get back to any?" I don't care. What we all matters is the next 12 months. Game on, baby. Super

Bowl. Put the ball in the end zone.

Let's go.

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[Music] >> Nicole is in New York. Hi, Nicole. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My fiance and I are trying to plan our honeymoon and we're trying to figure out how much money we think is appropriate to spend. Looking for guidance.

>> When are you getting married?

>> Next August. >> Awesome. Good for you.

>> Yeah. Very. >> So, where where you where you wanting to go? >> Um, so we're looking to go to Italy >> for around 10 or 11 days.

>> Wow. Very nice. So, what's the budget on

that? What's that going to cost?

>> It's looking like around 25,000, but we

are open to adjusting things.

>> Oh, wow. >> Depending on what you say. >> Oh, wow. >> A whole lot of pressure, Dave. >> Yeah. >> This is the honeymoon now. >> It's a honeymoon and it's it's Italy.

There's a lot of good stuff happening here. >> Yeah. And uh my mouth's kind of watering right now, actually. I'm just saying.

But um >> All right. So um I assume you're going to have 25,000 in cash to do this with.

You're not going in debt. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And uh what do you make and what does he make a year? >> I make around $200 and he makes around $300,000 a year. >> Okay.

Um sounds like you can afford it. Yeah.

Enjoy yourself, kids.

>> Really? All right. Wow. I mean, is there like do you have like $10 million in debt or something or >> We have no debt. >> No debt. >> Like a How How old are you two high income earners?

>> 29. >> Wow. You're killing it. >> Is there something information you're holding back from us? Cuz so far you're checking all the box.

>> You must be.

>> Wow. So, I mean, you you um I mean, you

kind of know if you make a half million dollars a year and you're 29 years old that you can do 25K. You already knew that, right?

>> Well, you never know. But yes,

>> it just seems like sticker shock that you would spend that much. Is that what you're experiencing? >> It It seems like a lot of sticker shock.

That's a lot of money. >> Why don't you pay attention to what you're doing with that 25,000? Cuz that is that's a pretty nice uh honeymoon.

It's not like you're staying at the Red Roof Inn in Italy.

>> All right. Well, >> I mean, this is a nice experience. Yes.

You got you got >> Yes, it's gonna be awesome. >> All right, then. I mean, savor this.

This is your honeymoon. Yeah, >> you're right. You're right. You guys are right. Here's how >> this is what we need. >> Here's how Sharon and I know we're overspending. We look at >> two things. Um, one is what percentage

of our world is this amount of money?

meaning our net worth, our income. Okay?

>> And this is a small percentage of your income. >> Yeah. >> If you took $25,000 and threw it out the

window and watch the people on the street below run around like crazy, >> it would not ruin your life.

>> Yeah. >> And so spending it on something much more fun than that, um it was not going

to ruin your life. So, if you told me you make $50,000 a year and you're going to spend 25, now we're going to have a long discussion about how dumb that is.

>> Mhm. >> Right. Even though it's a wonderful trip, you can't afford it. It doesn't make sense. And but you have another zero on that decimal. So, you're in good shape. >> Um the the second thing we measure against um is we're always if if we give

pause, this gave you pause. It made you stop and think. It was like a speed bump. It slowed you down. Anytime that happens, I that means I need to slow down and check my generosity factor. Am I is my generosity still really high?

>> Yeah. >> And am I doing a good job with helping others with the money God has blessed me with? And if so, then this is a vinor

amount of money and you pass both of those tests, you should go to Italy. Um,

I'll give you another possibility. They haven't been making this kind of money that long. it's new to them and so it

takes a little while to build the emotional muscle to spend more money on

>> you know she said that they're both very frugal and uh I'm looking at Rachel's book over there know yourself know your money and she brilliant brilliantly lays out money styles and what affects that.

So without doing too much digging we know that they come from a background where maybe they didn't come from a lot of money and they've been successful.

Maybe there's some scarcity going on but all good reasons. uh in this case cuz they're very very frugal and they're going, "Hey, is this crazy?" >> Yeah. It but it you know what what it also underscores is a um an emotional

maturity because there's zero entitlement. >> Correct. >> We did not have Bradzilla on the phone going anyway.

>> There was none of that, right? There was none of that Bradzilla stuff. This is more like I I I've dreamed of this my whole life. Oh, well, shut up, Barbie.

You know, seriously, how about you have the money before being gr and be a grown-up? But this lady here, she's an incredible grown-up. Yeah, absolutely.

>> I mean, there's no entitlement, none of that. It was the opposite of that.

>> Very concerned and thoughtful and careful and wise and all of that. Very well done, kiddo. Proud of you. Enjoy it. Tim is in New York. Hi, Tim. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, um, I just have a question. My brother and I own a home together. We have a very good interest rate. Um, and

we have a very cheap mortgage. I'm going to be looking to move out and buy another home with my girlfriend sometime next year. >> Don't do that. >> Basically wondering, okay.

>> No, please don't buy a house with somebody you're not Please don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to.

>> Okay. >> You're going to get yourself up a creek, bud. Seriously, if you if you want to buy a house with her, you need to marry her first.

>> Okay, fair enough. >> Yeah, because here's the thing.

something happens. You're now in partnership with her mother.

>> Sure. >> Yeah. Or she just decides she's gonna take off and you can't find her and uh

you get to pay the payments and you can't sell it because you can't find your partner. And in this case, it is a literal partner, not a relational partner.

>> So, yeah. No, please don't don't don't buy a house with Now, if you want to buy a house and she lives with you, that's a that's your decision on how you have a roommate. But um but yeah, but but the

legal and financial entanglements when

people shack up and start buying stuff together and sharing too much stuff, you really get all twisted up and it's very very very difficult to undo. It's difficult enough when you use divorce to do it, but um man, I've we've we've

taken some wicked, ugly situations on this show of people who bought a house

or bought a car with their shacked up boyfriend or girlfriend and then they can't find them or they die and, you know, now I'm partners with my well, she's not my mother-in-law cuz she never was in-law, but I don't know who this chick is. It's my girlfriend's mother.

Oh my god, this is a really nightmarish scenario. And we run into that kind of stuff all the time, Tim. And it's just we see all the times it didn't work, which is like most of the time. >> Yeah. You just don't want to end up in a real life Jerry Springer episode, you know. Nobody's going to bail you out.

That makes for great TV. It's not fun to live through. >> Entertaining call on the Ramsay show, but you don't want to be one of those. You want to be one of the wise people who said, "No, I'm not gonna do And we're getting those calls, I feel like, consistently over the last 6 months where they're not married and they're trying to untangle it. It's a nightmare.

>> And it's and well, I mean, you can't find them or they don't they don't talk to you or and you know what? How do you get out of this? How do you have to sue in court >> to disband a general partnership with no partnership documents and it's very very

expensive. >> Yeah. to get the circuit court to uh give you relief and force the sale of this and force the other party to come in and sign the deed. Oh my gosh, it's a mess.

>> And by the way, I I'll tee you up on this one, too, because I'm seeing this is happening. We're seeing data where more and more young people because they're reading too many headlines, too many Tik Toks that they'll never be able to afford a home. Now, we're talking plutonic relationships.

And that's just that's as goofy as I've ever seen. And that's happening on a regular basis now. Yeah. Anything with two to four heads is a monster.

>> Yeah. This is a bad plan. Any ship that won't sail is a partnership. So, all of these things come into play, right? So, no, we don't we don't do that. You buy houses with people you're married to, that's it. In your case, you did it with your brother. You're all probably going to get out of that one alive, it sounds like, Tim. So, that's good. But yeah, um

I I would not purchase. I would rent if

you're going to live together. And uh I don't recommend doing either of those, but if you're going to do it from a financial and legal entanglement standpoint, and then after you're married, decide what to buy. And uh so

let let's keep these things in the right order, the right um forced ranking.

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[Music]

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debtfree stage, Matthew and Ann are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Good. And you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y'all live? >> We're actually from Knoxville, Tennessee. >> Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> We paid off $350,000.

>> Wow. And how long did that take?

>> It took us 8 years. Good for you. And your range of income during that eight years? >> We went from about 52,000 to about 92,000. >> Very good. What do y'all do for a living? >> So, I started out as a teacher for about 13 years and have moved into construction. >> Mhm. >> And I just went back to teaching fourth grade. >> Oh, fun. Good for you. Well done, you guys. So, 350 over eight years. I'm guessing you guys paid off your house.

>> Yes, sir. >> Look at it. Some weirdos.

Way to go, guys. is no house payment.

Wow. What's the house worth?

>> The house is worth, I think, is about 420 or 450.

>> Very good. And how much have you guys built in your retirement nest eggs?

>> We have about 200,000, I believe.

>> Awesome. So, on your way to Baby Steps Millionaires, and you're not that old. How old are you? How old are you? >> We're actually both 35 years old.

>> Oh, wow. Wow. So, you're going to be millionaires by the time you're 40 and have a paid for house by the time you're 35. Y'all are weird.

>> Yes. >> I love it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, guys. Way to go.

>> All right, so you got to tell us, you know, what made you decide to take on the debt plus get rid of the house.

>> A lot of it was when we got married, we went to a financial peace university with our church. And after that, we were just determined we need to pay off our house as soon as we can. >> Very cool. What church do you go to?

>> We're at Calvary Knoxville now.

>> Yeah. Good. >> Originally from California, but now here in Tennessee. >> Okay. Oh, so you got married in California. Okay, so that What church was that that you took the class?

>> We took that. It was Clovis EVER.

>> Ah, okay. Cool. Very cool. Well, way to go, guys. I love it. So, uh, how long

have you been married? >> We've been married for seven years. No, >> eight years. >> Eight years. Eight years. Okay. So, from the time you got married, you were just game on. >> It was for sure. I mean, for her, it was just having that peace of mind. And for me, I got to kind of start nerding out on spreadsheets. >> I like it. I like it. Way to go. Very

cool. >> What was the hardest part of this journey for you guys? Was there a struggle and how did you get through it?

>> Honestly, I think for us, we've always had that goal of okay, this the house is going to come and so we were just blessed moving across the state that it or not say across the country and just kind of the focus was the house. I mean, I think the first time never really got bonus as a teacher. So, when the bonus came from the new work that I met, I was like, "Oh, I can go buy something." Instead, it's like, "Okay, no, we've got to keep the goal in mind and instead just pay off the house and then from there we can actually have a lot more fun." >> Yeah.

Yeah. Because you can do anything you want now. >> Yep.

the world. How's it feel to not have a house payment? >> I don't know if it's fully hit yet. I mean, we paid it off last month and so the first item, the budget item is with every dollar, it still says that mortgage on there.

So, I'm just excited to delete that line and then from there just kind of see how what we were paying for the house is actually going stuff like to our kids' colleges or just even having a little bit more fun. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate? >> First big thing is upgrading my wife's car.

It's a little old and she needs to be driving style. >> Good. Good. I like this man.

Good plan. So, what are you going to buy her? Uh >> what is she What are you guys going to buy her? Not you buy her, but yeah.

>> Sorry. She wants a Toyota um RAV 4.

>> Oh, perfect. Okay, that'll be great.

>> Okay. >> And what's the uh what's the hoopty you're getting rid of? The old one? >> Uh 2010 Toyota Camry. It only has about

170,000 miles. >> Oh, we we have squeezed the juice out of that puppy. >> Well, for a Camry, that's only a third of its life. It's got a lot more left.

>> That thing, you can't get rid of them.

They just keep going and going and going. Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of you. Who was bragging on you?

Who was cheering you on? >> Uh fans, friendlies. We actually have some friends here that got to cuz they're in the Nashville area got to come out and just celebrate with us today. >> Oh, that's fun.

Very good. Anybody tell you you were crazy while you were doing this? >> Oh, I hear it all the time cuz we actually p we had to pay off we had to buy another car from me to get around town and when we told everybody we paid for cash, they're like, why? I mean, just can buy whatever you want and I'll go buy something nicer.

And it's like, no, this gets me what I need to do. And we had our goals and we wanted just to kind of continue to live free. >> Yeah. And the goal is I don't have a stinking payment.

Hello, >> man. That's sweet. Sweet. You can do anything you want to do, man.

I'm proud of y'all. You're going to You're going to have so much money. It's going to be ridiculous. You're Are you the first ones in your families to be that be like this?

>> I don't know for sure.

>> I know credit cards were probably weird in that sense that we don't have credit cards. >> Right. Okay. Cool.

Cool. One of the things I want to ask because I've coached a lot of teachers over the years who wanted to get out and they didn't think they could because they didn't they hadn't done anything else. Just real briefly, I think it would be helpful to some people. How did you make the transition from teaching to construction?

>> I I think honestly it's your proximity process. I mean, I I felt call I mean, teaching is definitely a calling. And I felt for a long time that that calling was teaching until I was like, "Okay, God laid something on my heart." And I just had a buddy of mine say, "Hey, this fits what you're looking for.

>> Wow. So, the transferable skill here was math teacher, move over into analytics and the data side of construction.

>> Correct. And it's kind of nice not to be just teaching the same thing over every day every year. So it it makes it even more fun. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Good for you. >> Absolutely. And you brought the kiddos to celebrate with you. >> We did. >> All right. Bring them up. Let's see their names and ages.

>> We have Miss Nola Bell. She's six.

>> All right. She's beautiful. >> And then Nash, which is three.

>> All right. Big Nash. Here we go. Those those babies don't even understand how much their parents have completely changed their family tree. You guys are incredible. We're so proud of you. Very, very well done. All right, Matthew and

an Nola and Nash, Knoxville, Tennessee,

$350,000 paid off in 8 years, making 52 to 92.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> Ready? 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yay.

Wow, I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well done, you guys. Very well done.

>> Well, Ken, we do know from the uh

largest study of millionaires ever done by Ramsey Research that's in the white papers in the back of the baby steps millionaires bestselling book that um that the number one career choice of

millionaires is engineer, number two is accountant, number three is teacher.

Yes. >> And um so and we hear all the time from people that don't believe that. But you know when you use data, we don't care if you believe it or not. I mean if you don't believe in the law of gravity, try jumping off a building, you'll find the sidewalk.

I mean facts are facts and that's a fact. And uh what we've discovered is is that teachers are process driven. Particularly a math teacher that does data analysis are process driven. And they were both dialed in and for eight years they've made the steps, walked carefully and paid off the house and had a life while they were paying off their house.

>> Exactly. Right. The American dream is alive and well.

Watch the story. They started on it the minute they got married. So, they didn't accumulate other debt. They just came right into this thing and they said, "We're going to do this." And they walked it out. Now, they're very young.

And man, you want to talk about prosperity. It really is now in their

future. And >> Mr. Mr. Spreadsheet over here has already run the numbers on what his compound interest is going to be. He's already he's already sitting on 600 or 700,000 net worth at 35. And so that

puts him in the tens of millions in his retirement years in net worth. And so he's going to be in such they're going to be in such great shape. They've done such a good job. >> And um you know, mama's over there driving a hoopty Camry. Yeah.

>> We got to get her upgraded to a better Toyota there. And so, uh, very good.

>> Yeah. But worth worth every second of the sacrifices. They they just steady as

she goes and they were just monotonous about it and now they're going to live like nobody else. So, and that's that's the how this works. So, really fun. If every young couple would take this model, Dave, instead of getting like more and more debt and trying to keep up with everybody else and live the life their parents lived, this is the way.

>> Yeah. You need to take Instagram and put

a bullet in it. It's difficult to keep up with other people's highlight reels.

Yeah. Just if you're trying to keep up with other people, you're not going to win. Yeah. It's pretty simple.

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[Music]

Ann is with us in Minneapolis. Hi Anne,

how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you?

>> Just the same. How can I help?

>> Um, so my husband and I have been married eight years and we just had our first baby in December. Um, we're on baby step four. We have no debt other than our mortgage and we have a good emergency fund saved up. Um, we both work salaried jobs right now. I make more than my husband in my field. So, my salary is 135K with a 20% annual bonus

and significant career growth potential to climb the ladder. But my husband's around 100k and we've found there's more of a salary ceiling with his CPA career.

Um, it's going to be difficult for him to significantly increase salary over the next 5 years. He's not >> You said he's a CPA.

>> He is a CPA. Yeah. >> He only makes a hundred grand.

>> Yeah. And >> he has a career cap. Why does he have a career cap? He's under under He's under market already.

>> He is, but that's after job hopping like three jobs in the last five years. It's it's hard to find. Maybe it's just Minnesota, but at CPA firms, anything more than 100K is what we've found.

>> Well, I I was waiting on you. Here's what I would say. That's because you're looking in one pool and that's your traditional CPA firms. But with his skill set plus his experience as a CPA,

he has all kinds of upward mobility in

the corporate world because of that actual skill set and experience. But if he's locked in on these firms in a

certain uh type of work that he's doing and I have a little bit of an idea what you're talking about, then he is >> Yeah. But the point is is he's not limited for his growth.

>> We're talking about a lot of seaeters in in the United States that came through the CPA ranks.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But what's your what's what's your question? You've kind of given us the financial picture and what you think the professional outlook is.

>> Yeah. So, um, we've recognized that we both can't continue to work full-time because our daughter isn't in daycare and right now I juggle full-time work remote with her at home. Um, but that won't last forever as she takes less naps and is up more during the day and I really want to be a present mom. So, right now benefits are the most challenging for us because my husband's work at a small firm has a very expensive health insurance plan with a limited network and I get really good benefits because I'm in the medtech industry.

So, um, good insurance is important.

We need to support ongoing care and medications. So, basically, I don't want to work forever, and I want to be able to be a stay-at-home mom, but we feel like financially and health insurance wise, it may make the most sense for me to work and my husband to go down to part-time. At least we can until we can get through having another baby and I can get benefits and maternity leave for my second pregnancy. But my fear is that if I continue to work, it's going to turn into more of a long-term thing because my career will continue to grow and it'll probably never make financial sense for me to stop working because I can just make a lot more money.

So, we're also conservative Christians and there's the factor that the man is supposed to be head of the household, which typically looks like the stereotype of the wife is a full-time stay-at-home mom and the husband's the provider.

And what would you recommend in our >> You work on his career.

>> Yeah. >> Because his career path sucks.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, what if he's not very motivated?

Like I mean, >> I think he'd be motivated after listening to you. Yeah. I mean, this is ready. I'm ready to go. I think he could go. >> Yeah. I mean, you got you got this dialed in. you know exactly what you want and how to get there.

>> Uh I will tell you I I have taken this call a lot from ladies and I've talked to a lot of men who site motivation as a factor and I can tell you this.

>> Um he doesn't lack motivation, he lacks clarity. Um I don't think this is a lazy guy. Um

>> no no he's not. >> Right. Right. So what you're seeing as it looks like he's not motivated. it it presents that way. But what's going on is he doesn't know what his options are.

He doesn't see clarity in the future.

Meaning, I'd like to go here and I know how to get there. In other words, I know what mountain I want to climb and I know what I have to do to learn how to climb it. That's what he's lacking. And uh I can tell you that if you solve that and help him solve it, uh then you can do

what Dave is saying and he begins to see a path forward. Uh because you have to honor this desire to be a stay-at-home mom. You don't have to do it right away, but we've got to clear up.

>> You told us what you want. >> That's it. >> You want to be there, >> but you've got to make it make sense. And the way it makes sense is if he gets in a career path that has good quality insurance because you've got chronic health care and obviously we'll cover maternity for a second baby and those kinds of things. and he has some upward mobility, upward uh trajectory with his income and a ladder to climb and be about the business of climbing it.

>> So, hang on the line. Um here's what I want to do. Uh this is my gift and and this this this will help. I'm going to give him the book Find the Work You're Wired to Do it. It has an assessment in it. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. Have him take it and it's going to spit out a lot of great easy to understand information. and I won't unpack it here on the call, but that's going to help him with where he can go

and how he can get there. He reads the book after he takes the assessment and I'll walk him step by step what to do.

That's going to really, really help. I'm also going to give him a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle, which is his next step of homework where he begins to get out there and connect with people in the places that he wants to end up professionally. And if that happens, just like the baby steps, he

will find something and you guys will be able to make this plan for your life happen. >> But it's not by osmosis. It is through

intentionality and it can be done.

>> Yeah. And so >> he should be in the 250 300 range soon.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Your your analysis is based

on the current set of facts. And the

third option is create a new set of facts. >> Yep.

>> Charity is in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Charity. How are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I uh my car broke down in traffic yesterday. It turns out it needs about $5,700 worth of work.

>> Who said? And it Say that again.

>> Who told you that?

>> Um the mechanic shop. So >> at the dealership >> and not at the dealership. It was just a mechanic shop that we went to.

>> Okay. What's wrong with what's wrong with the car?

>> It um I think they said the rack and

pinion, the control arm bushing.

Basically, a lot of the front end is uh

needs a lot of work. So, um, >> the rack and pinion does not collapse in traffic.

>> No, I thought it was they did say the steering pump was part of it as well.

Um, so it got to a point where I was

trying to uh turn and it got really hard to turn. >> Okay. That that that your your power steering went out. Okay. That that causes collapse in traffic. And then they found everything else they could find wrong with the car that's been wrong with the car for the last year and a half and added it onto the ticket.

Correct. >> Yeah. So, bull crap. >> Um, so it is about a 10-year-old car.

It's completely paid off. Um, it it's had some class action lawsuit things against >> Put a steering pump on it.

>> Steering pump. Okay. >> It's not $5,700.

>> Okay.

So, that's kind of what I was interested in was just um you know, the car when it's running, it's worth two to three grand. >> Um, and I mean, we're on baby step three. We already I mean we have an emergency fund. Our goal is 20K.

>> We have 13K in our emergency fund so far. >> What's your household income?

>> Uh about 105. >> Okay. As soon as you get your emergency fund done, I want you to start working on saving up for a car.

>> And move and move up in car cuz this car is a piece of crap. I agree with you.

Yes. >> But right now, you don't have the money to replace it, do you?

Um, well, let me add that we do have 7,000 in a brokerage non-retirement

account. >> Why is that not in your emergency fund?

>> Well, that's what we were going to call and ask is um should that be um

>> should already have been in your emergency fund. Now, if that's in your emergency fund, how much is in the emergency fund?

>> 13K. >> Okay. And your goal is what?

>> Our goal is 20. Um, we haven't had a lot of margin in our budget just due to plumbing and household maintenance things, >> power steering pumps going out and Yeah.

>> Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, that I'm going to um move the brokerage into your emergency fund, finish your emergency fund. I'm going to upgrade the car. In the meantime, you got to fix the power steering pump cuz you got to get the thing operating. But you don't spend $5,700 on a $2,000 car. That's u that's

a mechanic that you don't need to do business with that even suggested that.

That's asinine. Heat. Heat.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of Front Row Seat is my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Rob is in Los Angeles. Hey Rob, how are you? >> I'm doing great, Dave. How are you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> That's awesome. Um, I am 48 years old,

married with two kids, um, and unfortunately have been diagnosed with,

uh, stage 4 cancer. Um, we've I've been

fighting the disease for a couple of years now. And through that fight, I

exhausted my 401k.

And basically, my family has been surviving off of my disability income of

$2,800 a month. We don't have any

assets. Um, I don't own a house or

anything like that. And on Sunday, Dave,

I had a miracle happen.

I won $100,000

on um NFL fantasy football contest

and I am freaking out and have no idea

what to do because I'm sick. So all the

traditional steps that one would take to improve their lives, I uh

I just at a loss for words.

>> Wow. I'm wondering what you would do.

>> Well, I've never been there, so I'm not positive. Um, what a what a

>> what a ch what a challenging situation.

The um I think the first thing I the first thing that popped into my head is um don't lose it all trying to replicate it.

>> Okay? You know, don't in other words, don't don't put 100,000 back into sports betting.

>> No, I know that. I know that >> you probably got your one miracle. I don't think I'd stretched God on this.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, so yeah, I mean I because that temptation's got to be there a little bit like, hey, I'm now now I've got this thing figured out. No, you don't.

>> Um, like you said, you called it a miracle. It's luck. It's whatever. and um it's a provision for your family, but

don't for God's sakes don't use it to create more bedding. Okay. Is that fair?

>> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

>> That's the first thing that pops into my mind. Then I don't know that I mean 100,000 is a lot more than you had and it's a good thing. Um

it's certainly not enough to sustain a family of three, a wife and two kids if

you're in heaven. Right.

>> Correct. >> So it does help though. We're not, you know, wonderful. I'm glad you got it.

Um, so how do we make that work? Um,

you guys have got your household budget currently set up on the disability.

You're living on 28.

>> Uh, it's difficult. My wife >> Oh, I would imagine. >> Um, gig a gig job. So, she's, you know,

if she brings in a hundred bucks a day, we're lucky. So, >> what's her job? Peter to pay Paul.

>> What's her job? >> That >> what is her job? >> Um she's like a uh she delivers groceries like gig app, >> you know, like a Door Dash type thing.

>> Where is her family and your family?

>> Um I I just have uh my dad is the only

one left and her family is all here with us >> so she has that support when something does happen to me.

>> Okay.

Uh, >> I've never heard you at a loss for words. >> Well, I I'm trying to think of um I'm

going to speak plainly. Okay. Can I have permission to do that?

>> Absolutely. >> What's she going to do for a living to raise two children when you're gone?

>> I've tried to have that conversation with her. Um, it

never turned out how I like. I don't think she

knows. >> Yeah. >> And I think she is putting it off and

>> Well, and she's afraid if she says it out loud that it's going to happen.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I understand that's we all process this pro this thing differently.

Um, so, um, yeah, what I would use the 100,000 for is to cause her to get trained or

certified in whatever it is she's going to do to raise these two kids, assuming your doctors are correct.

>> Yeah. No, they are.

>> Okay. You see what I'm saying? So, I mean, if she if you spent $25,000 and she got a certification in X, Y, or Z that allowed her to make 70 or $80,000 a year to be a widowed mom of two. That's

the That's an incredibly good in use of that money as far as I'm concerned.

>> Yeah. I But I'm Don't hear Dave say that she's got to go to college. We're not saying that. We're saying we're going to find something very practical. Does not take very long to get qualified. It does not cost a ton, but it allows her to make a very decent living to be able to take care of of her and the kiddos.

>> Yeah. >> I'm okay. Let me give you another example. I would I would include college as a possibility >> if it Yes. >> Yeah. So, like for instance, has she got a four-year degree?

>> Um, no. And and we're 50, so I telling

her to go back to college. I don't think that she >> Okay. I don't want to tell her to do anything. I want her to be able to have enough income to feed her kids and live.

That's all I want her to do. But the uh um uh for her sake, I'm trying to help her. >> What put you on the spot? Because you know her better than us and we we we can't talk to her. What would she What would you have her do knowing her the way you know her?

>> I I would have her get something like a

a hairdressing license or or or something like that. >> Mhm. to where that she could, you know, maybe, you know, start something on her own or go rent a chair, but at le

minimum wage with something, >> of course. Yeah. You need to make more than minimum wage in LA. >> Is she Is she intrigued by that? Ever talked about that kind of work.

>> Um, when we first got together, I had

actually offered to do that and, you know, we were so young that she didn't take me up on my offer. And, you know,

>> Yeah. Well, again, I think Dave's right.

I would set that aside with her and say, "Hey, here are a couple options. Let her do some research." You got to force this conversation and then say, "All right, we're going to put some money aside." That would more than take care of the qualification process for But if she took $30,000 u or $40,000 to live on and spent 60

during one year to get this thing that

allows her to make 70 or 80 or whatever the rest of her life that's providing

for her and for the kids. Um, and I

can't think of anything that's going to be a better investment that's going to that's going to even come close to that kind of a return other than education

certification that allows an income to be created, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that's your provision to me is to set up a sustainable provision.

And uh it's hard to talk about cuz it's, you know, you don't it's it's um man, it's painful. Uh what y'all are going through is horrible. I'm so sorry, but um but not talking about it is probably not a plan. And so her her not addressing the issue is not going to make you get well. You're going to get well independent of whether she addresses the issue. Um

I'm not ill, but we plan my death every year uh in detail. If something happens to Dave this year, how does the remaining parties survive? And we go into it in detail, and that's an act of love. Um, and that's it.

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Investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be.

The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools, resources that can help you get informed and not intimidated. Check it out at ramseysolutions.com/retire or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Ombberto is with us in Oklahoma City.

Hey Ombberto, what's up?

>> So, I am finishing up nursing anesthesia

school in about nine months. Um, unfortunately, I haven't been able to work the last two and a half years.

>> Did you say you're finishing nurse anesthesis school?

>> Yes, sir. >> Very good. >> School. >> Okay, great. >> Um, so I'm going to have a lot of loans about up to like $275,000

coming out. >> Wow.

But you ought to be making 300, right?

>> Yeah. 250 to 300.

>> Yeah. Okay. But and you used to make what? What are you making now? Nothing.

>> Nothing now. I was making uh about 100K as a nurse just working a lot of overtime. >> Okay.

So, what are you going to do? Live on nothing and pay it off in two years?

>> That's somewhat my plan, but also planning to get engaged, um get married.

>> That doesn't cost much. Um, no, it doesn't. It really doesn't. Um, but

wanting to do, I mean, not the most extravagant wedding I can afford, of course, but at least something that's nice. Um, I'm just curious on

uh if it would if the best thing to do is just to live off nothing and peanuts and just pay off as much as I can as fast as I can. >> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Okay. I uh I talked to my financial

advisor as well and he didn't make it seem that way that I should pay it off as soon as I can. >> Then get a new financial adviser.

>> Yeah. >> Gotcha. >> And yet you called Dave because even you didn't think that sounded right.

>> Yeah. I had a buddy who just kept uh uh what's it called? Hammering me about it and I was like, "Well, I'll just call and see see what I can learn." >> Yeah. Also, you got a really good friend. So your friend's better than your financial adviser. >> Yeah. That's good. So here here's the thing, dude. uh the highest you you have

engaged in a ridiculous amount of debt

and have gotten an awesome degree and

career choice.

Okay. So, so far it's worked out, but

you there's other than NFL players,

there's nobody dumber with money than doctors.

>> Mhm. >> They're perpetually stupid with money.

Don't be a stupid doctor with money.

Okay? you're making serious doctor money. Use it to straighten up the mess that you've made and go become wealthy.

If you keep the student rolling around like you think it's a pet so your financial adviser can get you to put start investing so he can start getting commissions because you didn't fire him.

Um then that's just straight up dumb.

You man, can you know how much money you're going to have if you have no debt and $300,000 income and learn to live on less than that? You're going to be a multi-bazillionaire.

But not if you screw around with this.

>> You'll just be another pro doctor.

>> My whole life, I've just kind of been always like keep it the minimum and just uh >> and just make as much as I can and save up as much as I can. That way I can do whatever I want. >> Yeah. Beans and rice. Rice and beans.

And hey, set aside 25 grand. I don't care for for a wedding. I don't mind.

What does she make?

>> She's actually finishing school, too.

>> In what?

nurse anesthesia. >> Oh, okay. Guess where we met. Okay. And um Yeah. And so she's going to be making the same kind of Does she got the same mess? >> Yeah, she'll have the same mess.

>> Oh, jeez. >> So, we're going to have a $600,000 income and $500,000 worth of loans, right? >> Yep.

>> Okay.

So live like you make a hundred grand and get yourself a $25,000 wedding and

you guys tear the tear the can

please just go to the Ramsey Solutions website and put in what'll happen after you're done with all this and you make $600,000 and you put $200,000 in

investments a year. How fast you will be worth $20 million will blow your freaking mind.

But go ahead and be done with this in like a year and a half.

>> Yeah, that sounds amazing. >> Yeah. Sit on a bean bag, don't eat out,

tell your broke friends who have their all these opinions, not the good friend that we we have established. You have one good friend. Fire your financial advisor. Live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and be completely free and making 600 grand two years from now.

Dude, you're going to have so much.

you're going be able to do anything you want to do, but if you screw around and keep this around, try to be I'm going to I'm going to pay it off on a 10-year plan, I'm going to kill you because you will have wasted so much money. You understand? >> Yeah, >> dude, you got you. This is amazing where

you can be. And and uh but please God,

the number of times I've talked to people in your world that that are 10 years later and they're still looking at those student loans like they're a pet.

They're keeping them around. Well, I think we need to feed it a little bit just to keep it alive. Oh my god. It's just you're No, please, please, please.

You're The great news is you've got an

incredible income potential. The horrible news is you got to dig out of a mess before you get to have the benefit of it. No new beamers, no new houses,

no new new new nothing. Nothing, honey.

Clean up the mess. And dude, you could God, they're gonna have so much money, Ken. I get so excited. >> Oh, I was going to say I I don't think you were passionate enough with that. I think you should have been a little clear uh about what you mean. Sometimes you're a little fuzzy, Dave, uh with these callers. Also, I do like the uh the carrying on of the rice and beans into the bean bag. I also like that.

>> That's a good handoff there. >> I thought that was nice. I like that.

You don't need a bunch of furniture. Just get you, >> you know, you're the one of the few around here that's old enough to actually remember it what a bean bag chair is. >> I do. And I uh still have a couple. We got both. True story. Uh they're called it's actually got a corduroy cover on it, but it is a bean bag for both my boys. >> And I love them. >> I'll sit on them sometimes and watch football. Very comfortable.

>> And then you admitted it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. What would be worse if I said I had a water bed? You remember those? >> We got a whole generation has no idea that it was actually water.

>> It was actually bed and you put water in it. >> You like floated around. That was so obnoxious. >> Yeah. >> Glad those went away on the ash heap of history. [Laughter] >> Yeah. H So, hey man, you just Ombberto,

you got such a your future so right bright you got to wear shades, man. I mean, seriously, it's incredible. But yeah, but you really do need to decide to do this the right way. And that's super fast.

>> Yeah. >> Well, you're addressing something that isn't just the medical community. You got people who come out of school good degrees and they're going to get good jobs because of said degrees and they've been living on nothing and now they're going to make a really nice salary. And Dave, the temptation, you know, is so strong to live on some of that money as opposed to not live on it.

That's >> number one mistake.

Number one mistake they make, new car.

>> Yep.

because they've been driving their high school hoopty all the way through college. And uh I'm I'm now I'm I'm now

I've got a license and a letter after my name and now I need to spend some money that I don't have and >> go buy a car I can't afford and uh Yeah.

So it's like they exhale and it sounds like BMW.

>> That's exactly right. >> Yeah. >> Three more letters to add to all those fancy degrees.

>> Yeah, it's true. >> It's exactly right. So, yeah, don't don't do that. Get your mess cleaned up before you start buying cars and houses and uh then you can you can have it the life you want. I mean, it's incredible what you'll be able to do. Absolutely incredible. So, very cool stuff, guys.

Very cool. >> And on behalf of all patients in in the world, we would like to have not stressed out doctors and nurse and estist taking care of us. You're so stressed out because of your bills. You know, we don't need you stressed out.

It's already a tough job. You know, >> I have personally witnessed a couple of epidurals and I do not want those being done by a stressed out person.

>> Great point. Yikes. Get that away from

me. >> Yeah, >> I should

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Heat.

Heat.

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Hey, hey, hey.

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When John Olirri was 9 years old, he suffered burns over 100% of his body was

given a 1% chance to live. And he shares

his expertise on overcoming adversity

and how to live inspired with tens of thousands of people, hundreds of events a year. He's spoken with us several times. We've become good friends over the years. promoted the book that became a national bestseller called On Fire.

Um, his story is breathtaking

and um, amazing and uh, and the only thing that's better than his story is the guy himself and so honored to have you with us, my friend. Congratulations on all your success. >> Dave Ramsey, I am grateful to be your friend. Out of everything you said, that's what I'm most grateful for. And and I realize, man, this isn't my success. This is God's hand in everything I've done, including the mess ups along the way. And there are many.

Some we track, some we bury, but uh God's grace has carried us forward. So, I get a call, and I get these calls occasionally from friends that have done some kind of movie or some kind of film.

Hey, come. We've got the uh the uh the early release for the people that can help us promote it on their shows and stuff. Come over and watch it. And generally, when I go, I'm like, "Oh, God." And um I and I got a call from John, hey, you got to come see the movie on my life called Soul on Fire. I went I had

to get there just a little bit late cuz I got tied up in a in a thing here at the office. And when I got there, I sat there and cried and cried and cried and

cried. And I know the whole story. It wasn't like I didn't know what was coming. I knew every every turning point, every milestone in the story.

And I'm still It was so well written and so well acted. I was blown away. It's incredible movie. >> Yeah.

>> Well, what makes it I think even more incredible is it begins with the words a true story. And it is. And you and I were talking right before we started the show, but it's recorded in St. Louis where I was raised.

The hospital scenes are recorded in the hospital where I was treated. The place where I met my future wife was recorded exactly where she and I met. And the place where she and I married is recorded in the church where we married.

The girl playing my wife in the film walks down that aisle wearing the dress she wore. So for us, it's not only an emotional true story, they did such a phenomenal job of where they filmed and how they outfitted these characters. And

the lady that played your wife nailed it. I mean, cuz your wife is special. We

all know that. And but they she's a hero in the in the story. I mean, she's incredible. >> Well, my my favorite part about the film is when you look at the movie poster, it's not a picture of Joel Courtney playing John Olirri with his arms up celebrating his greatness.

They actually spun him around so you see his backside and it's a mosaic of all the individuals who were the hands and feet of Jesus who were part of this kid's survival from fire to 100% of his body. Should not have survived that. But in some regards, the more miraculous story is embracing the scars, embracing your life, and recognizing even in the midst of agony, you can be used for good.

emotional struggle. Unbelievable. And I know there are a lot of people that are tuned in today that are feeling like

their future is unimaginable. They cannot figure how they're going to get out of bone crushing debt. I think few people could speak to them the way you can. Having overcome what you have overcome, what would you say to that person who feels like they'll never get out of this debt. They're behind.

They're never going to be able to live the life that they desire. >> All right. Me, too. And I live that way not just when I was a kid in the hospital. I think in recovering, Ken, from physical injuries is far easier than the emotional ones.

>> So, once I came home, like that alone is miraculous, but I buried the light and I kept it buried for 20 years. My life changed in the back row of a church service. My arms were crossed. I was wiped out from the night before.

We won't go into the details of that, but I'd been out too late. My life was just sideways, man. But I made it in. And the pastor was talking about the gift of talents.

And he went through the five and the two and the one. And then he came to me like when the light goes on you. And he said, "And for those who feel as if you have no hope and no talent," and that might be the person you're speaking to there. He said, "Listen to me.

Your life is a precious, priceless gift. You got one job now.

And I didn't even know what that meant, but I wrote it down as as a 28-year-old.

Went to work the next day doing construction at the time in debt, struggling, wiped out, and uh I got a

call from a little girl who said, "Mr. John, will you speak at my school?" And that simple yes to this girl to speak to three girl scouts to not even be paid a box of Samoas for the effort.

Like we weren't killing it, man. We were not crushing debt. This wasn't helping anything. But it was setting us on a path. >> And in that room, a Rotarian came up and said, "That was awesome. Speak at my Rotary Club. They don't pay. They barely feed you." But I went. and then in their Aquinus and then in their church service and then a prison group in this awkward introverted nobody just kept saying yes

and it has led now over 20 years to being back on the Dave Ramsey show to having two bestselling books to being debtree and now to have this film called Soul on Fire rolling into theaters around the country and around the world that's not my work it's God's hand and a

answer of yes when the opportunity knocks.

Yeah, the movie is Soul on Fire. It's in theaters October the 10th. Go and see

it. I will give you my personal guarantee that you will be glad you took the time and the little bit of money out of your pocket. You will walk away inspired and ready to go. Soul on fire.

And John is has definitely personified that since I've known him. So, um, what

do you hope viewers walk away from this film with?

I'm going to answer that in a long-winded way. So, my my um my hero is my dad. You and I have talked about this before. And >> my my favorite scene in the film is in the church when we get married. You know, surprise, guys. Like, I survived the fire. It's going to be okay. I don't know why Ramsay was crying.

>> I'm living right next to him in the seat. Like, he should be aware the kid's going to survive and have a good life.

Later on, I get married and they shot

this with the girl walking down the aisle wearing my wife's actual wedding dress. It's Dolly left Dave. So, they go

to the left and then you see this man rise in the second row. It's not John Corbett who's the actor who portrays my dad in the second row. It's a guy he's portraying. That's my dad. And so, um, my dad rises, which he can't do. He had

Parkinson's disease, had it for 30 years before he passed away. And when Shawn McNamera, the director, yelled the word action, my heroic dad stands up and

every time I see my dad in this film and I just I lose it. It's it's an incredible moment. But back in May, I

took my dad to the film and uh I thought I'd have him for years, decades probably, and he held my hand the entire time. And when you when your dad holds your hand for that long, that's two, it's an hour and 40 minutes for your dad to hold your hand. But at the end of it, I said, "Dad, uh, what do you think about your film?" And my dad whispered back to me because he had no voice.

"What a gift." >> And what he was reviewing was not the film Soul on Fire.

>> He had Parkinson's. He'd broken every bone in his body, most of them twice. He was financially struggling. He was uh been through two house fires, almost lost one of his kids in one of them. And yet at the end of the life, man, he was able to look up at his son and say, "What a gift." So I hope people dance out of that theater saying what a gift.

This story isn't my life we celebrate man. It's yours. Doesn't make it easy.

But God is working in this moment in your life and your best is yet to come.

That is a gift. >> That is that's exactly right. That's exactly how it works. And after he saw that he's passed away now, right? >> Passed away on May 30th. >> Wow. Amazing. The movie my friend John

Olir's life story and uh you will leave

with a gift. uh Soul on Fire. It is in

theaters beginning October the 10th. The book is on fire. And if you ever have the opportunity to see John speak, you should. He's spoken on our stages many times. We've shared the stage many times on different things. And uh he's a world-class communicator, as you can already tell. So, um again, 9 years old,

suffered burns over 100% of his body,

given a 1% chance to live. But pain and

hardships bring the greatest learning lessons, and he'll show you how that works. I can promise you you'll come away going, "Oh, okay. I got no problems." Love you, John. Thanks for being with us, brother. >> Love you, Dave. Love you, Ken. >> Congratulations. Soul on Fire in theaters October 10th.

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Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 45:2, I

will go before you and will level the mountains. I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron.

Ella Fitzgerald said, "It isn't where you come from that matters. It matters where you're going." Absolutely true.

All right. If uh here's the top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for a will? Well, if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, getting an online will is probably a great option for you.

And actually, if it's worth more than a million dollars, it's probably still a great option. Sup, super complicated is what really matters. It's not the size of it necessarily. Uh, what do I need to start my online will?

Well, where who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take control of your minor kids? And who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated? That's a couple of the things they're going to ask, so be ready for them.

Is an online will legally valid? Well, of course.

uh ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. Aaron is with us in Indianapolis. Hi Aaron, how are you?

>> Good. How are you Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Nothing much Dave. So I want to be brief and to the point here. I'm a big fan of your podcast and I listen in recently as I've been traveling a lot. Uh and right now I'm in a bit of a situation. My dad passed away earlier this year and um he

left back pension money from uh he was a union worker for my mom as a beneficiary. So I'm calling on behalf of my mom um and she is trying to find out

what to do with that money that was left behind. >> How much is it? >> We want to It's 126,000.

>> Okay. Go go go to ramseyolutions.com and click on smartvetor pro. Find someone in

your area that has the heart of a teacher that we have vetted and let them sit down with your mom and tell your mom what her choices are. She needs to roll it into some good growth stock mutual funds into an IRA.

>> Yes. So, we were presented with a fixed

index annuity. >> Absolutely not. Horrible. No.

>> No. >> Horrible.

>> Who presented that? I uh someone who worked with my mom to help her build her trust right after this happened with my mom. So um I

immediately was kind of skeptical. I had heard what you had said about it. So I wanted to make sure I was making the right decision. And >> help your mom build a trust. Why does your mother need a trust?

>> She has um property as well.

>> Yeah, but that doesn't mean you need a trust.

Yeah, that's what we were just we were advised because this uh >> by the person who sells trusts.

>> No, no, by a different person who recommended us to the um person who

>> How much property does your mother have?

>> She has three different rental properties and then the current house.

>> How old is she?

>> She is 51.

>> Okay. I personally would not put any of that in a trust.

It's complete overkill and it's a complete pain in the butt to operate rental properties in a trust because of the operational aspects of writing checks to fix the heat and air and everything else all got to go through the trust. It's a it's a pain in the butt. >> They should just be in LLC's.

>> There's no benefit to them being in the trust. So I think this is somebody sells trusts or doesn't know what the flip they're doing. One of the two. Um so no I I wouldn't do that but anyway and I wouldn't do the other either. So, so far I don't like any of the people that have given you all advice.

I don't like any of the advice I've been giving you. So, yeah, I would get with a Smart Investor Pro and do a rollover on the pension and I would not put the houses in a trust. I'd put them in LLC's and uh there's no there's just no point in it. It doesn't do anything. So, yeah,

>> I like it when you tell them I don't like any of those people and that's that. Charles is in Topeka, Kansas. Hey, Charles, what's up?

Hey, I just got a question. Um, so I recently, um, purchased my second home and I was able to buy it in cash and we

paid off all our other debts this year.

>> Doesn't that feel great?

>> It does. I'm sleeping good, I'll tell you that. Coffee every morning.

>> I bet you are. I'm proud of you, man.

Way to go. What's your net worth?

>> Oh, probably around, you know, 600 or 700,000. >> Good for you. Way to go. house and all the cars. >> Good for you. >> But um yeah, so after child care, all my

bills, groceries, that kind of stuff, I have about 2,000 left over and I want to

know how much monthly I should throw into like retirement or, you know, custodial accounts for the kids cuz I, you know, kind of want to do some dumb stuff and go on vacations and do things like that. So >> Oh, that's not dumb. You've earned it. You should go do those things. Yeah. So, you've just got to lay it out and parse it out and go, "Okay, there's three things I can do with money at Baby Step 7. I can have fun with it and I should.

I can be generous with it and I should.

And I can invest it and I should." As far as kids custodian accounts, how old are the kiddos?

>> Uh, 6 months and two and a half.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, you could put some in there. I wouldn't overload it too much. Uh, if you want to put some in a 529 instead and be thinking about college, that's fine. Or education of some kind. trade schools also qualifies for 529s. Uh so whatever they're going

to do, they're going to need some training post high school. And um yeah,

be preparing for that, but you don't have to go hog wild on that. And you should be putting at least 15%. You should have been before you paid off the house. 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts, but at this stage, you ought to be doing more than that. >> We were trying, but we were in a house that uh we probably shouldn't have been.

Um, but I bought a fixer upper and it's all worked out in the end. So, >> okay. So, you got that behind you. So, now you can put at least that away, but you ought to be putting it a minimum of 15. But a baby step seven, I'd like to see you'd be doing more than 15% of your income into retirement and be doing

something towards the kids' college and something towards fun. And there ought to be room in this budget to do all that. And just sit down with your Smart Investor Pro and lay out your game plan on how we're going to invest, what we're going to invest in, and you know, lay out your Roth IAS. just load them up uh load up the Roth 401ks at work if you've got them um and so forth and then you'll

look up in just a few years and it'll be millions and millions of dollars. It's kind of amazing how quickly it grows, how fast this life goes for that matter.

>> Yeah. You know the for folks that are listening, watching, we have a lot of new folks coming in all the time. This is a great call as Dave's giving that advice. You got to understand the baby steps are not a suggestion. This is a

tried andrue plan. And you refer to it privately, you know, in in our building, in our meetings, that it's a clear path developed over time as you walk through with people in real life money situations. And I'm telling you the the fundamental truth about the baby steps, Dave, is that it creates massive financial and personal and relationship

momentum. >> It does. >> It just does. >> It does. and and the the because you're

getting you're setting yourself free.

>> Yeah. >> You're working like crazy and you're actually getting traction.

>> So many people with money feel like a rat in a wheel. They feel out of control. They're reactive instead of proactive. >> And when you get the other side of all of that, guys, it it really turns things around in every area of your life.

>> Um you know, Steven CVY all those years ago had that book and it's still on the bestseller list. I look up Total Money Makeovers on there. Seven habits of highly effective people is on there.

Number one habit of highly effective people, they are proactive.

>> They happen to things.

>> Yes. >> Not everything happens to them. So if you're in a situation and you don't like where you are happen to it. What is it we're going to do?

What are we going to what kind of dynamite are we going to throw in the middle of this? Pull the pin on the grenade. Light up the room, baby. Let's go.

There's something's got to change here. And if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12stepers tell us.

And so, you know, I I can't seem to break the cycle. Well, break the cycle then. >> Yeah. You know, >> it's it's genius how we know, we talk to people all the time how hard it is for many people just to get through baby step one, which is to get $1,000.

And when you're broke, you know how hard that is. But there's something about that. It propels you beautifully into baby step two, which is a tiny little confidence builder. >> It is.

And it's hard sometimes. And you get through that hardship. Guess what happens? your shoulders come back a little bit.

You did something that you didn't think was going to be possible. And that's the magic of these baby steps. Work the baby steps. Not out of order. One through seven. >> Yeah. One is before two is before three

is before. That's how that works. And so

don't call me up and ask me to change them, okay? It'll be it'll be better for you and me both if you don't do that.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 130. Quit Letting Dumb Money Decisions Hold You Back | December 17, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, [music] Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. He's also the host of a big runaway head on Ramsey Networks called The Front Row Seat. If you want to join him there, you'll see all kinds of very interesting people. So, jump in and join us today. The phone number is 88825-5225.

Cody is in Austin, Texas. Merry Christmas, Cody. How are you?

>> Merry Christmas. I'm good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I've I've stumbled against some some obvious decisions that's led me into about a 250,000 in consumer debt

that has uh left me stumped on how me and and my significant other can make headway to get this taken care of in a short amount of time or or as quickly as possible. And it just seems like we run into a brick wall about uh beliefs on how we're going to do that.

>> That's a lot, dude. I'm sorry. What do you What What's it on? Break it down for me. The 250 is on what? So, we have we

have uh I have a 401k loan that has about 21,000 in it. We have student loans in around 80,000. We have a car that's around 36.

And then we have legal fees, things that that we've both had to acquire uh over the course of a few years. It's around 20,000. And then uh we have we did

purchase a house and we've added some some debt there as far as just furniture and appliances and things that we're we're trying to get off. And that's the lowest hanging fruit of around 8.

>> Okay. >> We're looking looking around 200 250,000 that's just sitting out there. And then uh on top of that is is I have a a child with a former relationship and and that one takes out a huge chunk of our uh

available money. What's your uh what's your household income?

>> So, we sit around before uh before

taxes, well, we about $200,000, but if you take out uh child service or child payments and things like that, it's around 175. So, we bring home uh after

taxes around 11.

>> Okay. And significant other, what's that

mean? >> Uh my fiance.

>> Yeah. So, there's not a wei then until you're married. What's the wedding date?

>> That has not been set yet.

>> Why?

>> Uh, we've had a a run of things that's happened in both of our lives and we just have that's been pushed. Um, >> but you bought a house together.

>> That we did. We did buy a house.

>> That's more difficult than getting married. >> I don't disagree with you. It's also dumber than crap because you're going to get yourself into a mess buying stuff with somebody you're not married to.

>> And so, and so you're trying to act like you're So, okay. Um, the legal

implications, the relational implications, and the career implications of trying to do this without being married, the data is all stacked against you. So, that is one thing that you're that you're out over your skis on, one thing that you're trying to go uphill on. And the data is

really, really clear. And there's a lot of research on this. Uh, nobody seems to be talking about it because it's unpopular to talk about. So, everybody gets pissed at me when I talk about it, but I can it's kind of like my spiritual gift, so it's okay. Um, the So, that

that that's one thing. Um, and legal fees, has that all that's all

from child support issues and other things in the past?

>> Uh, primarily mine. I've spent a decade fighting for my first daughter in my first marriage. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Is that over?

>> No, sir. >> So, there's ongoing legal fees.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The state of Texas stacks it against the father. So, >> sure. Yeah. Yeah. The um

uh Okay. How much of the 175 is you and how much is her? >> Uh I make >> You just broke up. You broke up. Try it again. I make 120 and she brings home 80. So,

we're sitting at the 200. Okay.

>> But I take out the 25 because that's the the child support. >> Yeah, that's got to come out. Yeah, >> that is correct. >> Do not pass go. Do not go to jail. Yeah.

Okay, >> that is correct. >> The All right, I'm good with that. Um, take care of the kid. That's a good thing. So, how much of how much is being

put into your 401ks?

Uh I have a employer match and mine's

every paycheck I get paid weekly. Mine goes around 175 a week and then that's

uh 6% so they match up to 6%. So I just

make the match. >> Okay. >> And then she's she's at four they match at 4%. So she's at 4% of hers.

>> Okay. All right. Well here's the thing.

Um you can do what you want to do but you called and asked. So, we're going to be truthful with you cuz we love you and we want you to win. And um uh what would

I do if I woke up in your shoes knowing what I know now is um I had to come to

grips when I went broke years ago with the idea of if I keep doing what I've been doing, I'm going to keep getting what I've been getting. So, for something to change, something's got to change. Agreed.

>> Agreed. And so and and then you can add with that formula then the more radically you change things the more

radically things will change.

>> That make sense? >> And so in other words, the more bizarre you get and the more your friends are looking at you like you've joined a cult and lost your mind, um the the probably

the more progress you're going to make away from being stuck, which is where you are right now.

So, that's that's the, you know, the decision-making framework that I'm going to give this advice in. And then you got to pick and choose. And uh but I promise you, if you will go do every single thing I'm getting ready to tell you, in um let's see, 3 years you'll be 100%

debtree, not counting the house. In um

in four years, you'll have substantial assets. In 12 years, you'll be a millionaire.

>> Okay. Okay, >> I'm all ears. >> So, the first thing I do is get married this weekend. Merry Christmas. Ho ho ho.

>> Merry Christmas. >> There we go. You know that simple. And um Rachel's uh anniversary is this coming Friday, so you can get married on Rachel Cruz's anniversary if you want.

There you go. So, um she got she's Christmas wedding. It was a lot of fun.

So, um gather up some friends. You all been doing this for a while. You've been playing house for a while. It's time to be grown-ups now. You're not college students sleeping around. You go. It's time to do this. Okay. So, uh, and then then you're combined. You're locked legally. You're committed into the future. You develop a shared set of

goals, a desired future, where you want to go. I would stop all 401k contributions temporarily. I would get on a detailed written plan called a

budget. I'm going to give you every dollar as your wedding gift. It's our the world's best budgeting and finance app. And it's also going to walk you not only do the budget, but it's also going to walk you through the stuff I'm teaching you. Okay? I would sell everything in sight.

No more renovations, no more furniture, no more nothing. Beans and rice, rice

and beans. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. You're not going on vacation. That's for dad gum sure. You are broke people and you've got to clean this up. I'd look at selling this car

probably just almost symbolically. It's

not as much of the money issue as it is.

It's just stupid in the middle of all this. And it's really the only thing you got you can sell. You can't sell the lawyer or the credit cards or the 401k.

So, um, and and then I'm just going to list these debts smallest to largest.

And I'm going to squeeze every dollar out of my life. And like you said, I'm going to knock off the lowhanging fruit first. Take the littlest, smallest to the largest, and go in that order and get in absolute crazy attack mode. Hang

on, Christian. will pick up and

uh help you out with all those gifts.

Give him a Total Money Makeover book, too. And Ken, um if you'd shut up, I

could talk.

I was going to say, what do I add to that? [laughter] I just slow clap like you made a par putt.

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Hunter is in Cincinnati. Hey Hunter, what's up? >> Hello Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hi. Um so I am recently married within

the past 3 months and I my wife has um

loans, student loans and car payments

and we are in debt. Um I personally have

zero debt and I owe nobody anything. And

um we are married but living separately

by choice because we wanted to knock out this debt before we went in and decided to buy a house or something. So I wanted to see what your advice would be for us to knock out this debt um before jumping into buying a

house.

>> You you you got married three months ago and you don't live with your wife

>> unfortunately. No, we are in a very

special situation where we're lucky enough that both of our parents still let us live at our respective parents houses. So, we're weekend warriors is what I call it. Um, I also have a pretty

>> Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold up, hold up. What is weekend warrior?

I'm afraid to ask this, but I got to know. >> They get to see each other on the weekend. >> You guys go to one of the other's parents' house on the weekend?

>> Yes. Yes.

Are you in different cities, honey?

>> We are in different states.

>> Okay. Where are we going to live when we get married? >> Uh plan planning on We are already married, but planning on >> Not really.

>> You're still married to your >> um planning on living in Ohio. Granted, I am a professional basketball player. Um

and I have been for the past two years.

Now, my wife has a nineto-five job and we are we got married very quickly so she could join in in a contract for me to play overseas, but I didn't get the contract that I expected. So, now we're kind of standing here married but not living together. >> So, your your your professional life is overseas playing ball.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. And but right now you

don't have a job.

>> I do. So, I I am working for a friend.

Um, he owns an auction business and

uh he pays me in cash and I just work the hours that I can and the hours that I want, but I've been increasing those hours and days because I want to be

better for, god willing, our future family. >> What is the I'm so There's so many things to talk about. What What is the What's the future on the basketball contract? When does that come up again?

Um, so I signed a small contract coming

up here in the months of February, March, April, and May. Um, and that will

be in the United States. And they're

providing housing for my wife and I for those month for those months. And then I will be getting um uh before tax.

>> Is that in the Is that in the uh NBA uh sub league? I've forgotten what it's called now, but is that what that is?

It's the league right below the one that you're thinking of.

>> So it's Yes. So you're way down low. So how much money? This is not a lot of money. And that's why I asked that. How much is that contract for for those few months? >> Uh well it would be three grand a month

before tax. >> So what do you what do when do you go when you're when you're in Europe? What do you make?

>> Um it really depends on the league and it depends on >> what have you made in the past?

uh made 2400 a month and then the last

one was at a thousand a month.

>> So you're not going overseas for that when you can make money in the NBA development league.

>> So what is your what's your what's your career plan? Because those all suck.

>> Um my career plan is eventually I

actually want to become a preacher.

>> Okay. All right. Um but I I

>> How much debt does How much debt does your wife have in emergency in in student loans?

>> Uh so in two loans, one is a little over

5,000, another is 13.

>> Mhm. >> And then federal aid and student loan is

5,000 and then uh car payment with 5,000

left. >> Okay. And so you're planning on base camp to be Ohio.

>> Yes, sir. where you live right now.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. Well, the best way to

um attack this financial situation is to

create a more symbiotic relationship. And that would mean that you and your wife go get an apartment tomorrow and you actually live together seven days a week because what you're doing is unbelievably weird.

Yeah, you're telling me. [laughter] >> Well, wait a second. So, I got to ask really quick, and we're not picking on you, but I really want to know. You called and you're used to coaching.

>> If you responded to Dave's comment that way, believe me, I know that leads me to believe, tell me if I'm wrong, that this is not an arrangement that you came up with. This isn't your idea. Or am I wrong?

>> It is both of our ideas. It Okay.

>> Again, I we I was anticipating this

contract to come by. That's why part of the reason why we got married so early.

The main reason is because we both believe in God and we wanted to be married. Um, but when I was negotiating

it, it did not go the way that I anticipated. >> No, listen listen listen listen. I get it. I got to tell you something.

You need to choose which. First of all, I don't think you should be in either parents house, but you should choose one and live together. Let's get this thing going. You, as a pastor, you would never tell a young couple to do what you're doing, would you?

>> No, you wouldn't. and you need to get like an apartment and you need to leave your parents, both of you. >> Yeah.

and move to, you know, move towards becoming a pastor and moving on. So, I appreciate that you wanted to get married rather than shacking up. I appreciate that. Thank you for that.

Good man. Good idea. Bad idea to live

separately and in order for to pay off the debt. That is not No, no, no. And apparently there's not room or it's not conducive to a married couple for for you guys to be at either family's house, which is suits me fine, too. I recommend all young people go get a life away from

their parents, married and unmarried, especially married.

>> Go get a life. I >> And and that's going to make you more money and it's going to make your career blossom because it's going to make your manhood and your relationship blossom.

And um you know you she's got to be away from her mommy and so do you. And you know mommy can just email recipes and that's about it. Over the fence. That's it. And that's you guys really really really need to uh uh you're going to do

better to answer your basic to get her out of debt. You guys out of debt. You phrase that properly. but from the debt that she brought in faster when you're working together, even with an apartment rent. Because you're both going to be looking at this going, I'm gonna work all the time and when I get home, I'm going to see my wife and I'm going to work all the time and I'm going to get home I'm going to see my wife and we don't do thousand a month stuff in 2025

and call that professional. That's slightly above hobby. Yeah, I was going to say professionally speaking, I have a good friend who was in DA baseball many years ago. He and his wife straight out of college and they gave it a timeline.

They both sat down and said, "All right, we're going to give it this much time and they were going to put some measurables on it." And you know, you've played at the European level or wherever you've played internationally and now you're in the lowest development league.

You know what the odds are, but you got to have somebody in your life, coach on that team, the general manager up the line. Let's put a real number on how long we're going to give this. And you've got to work extra like Kurt Warner, the famous now Hall of Fame quarterback, stocking shelves. This has been done before, but you need some real measurables on the basketball side.

And your wife, now we agree, this is how much we're going to give it. This is what we're going to do together. She needs to be on the road with you. Like Dave said, you guys need to be in this together.

You guys can scrape by uh on this three grand a month and hustle and learn how bad this situation is. I think you've got to be together. I just really wanted to hit that. But I think you have got to get to a point pretty quickly where we go, we're going to realistically measure what my opportunity is in professional basketball that's here and abroad.

Give it a time length, get retested, and see if there's something there. And if it's not, it's going to be hard to give it up.

>> I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. So I

can't tell somebody else to do it. It's that simple.

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John's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, John. How are you?

>> I'm doing okay, Dave. It's a pleasure to speak with you guys. >> You, too, sir. What's up?

Well, uh, I had a a series of unfortunate events this year and, uh, I just really want to try to get some advice on if I'm making the right decision for me and my family. Uh, I'm a

single income earner, family of four, me, my wife, and my two sons. And, um,

at the beginning of the year in uh, March, my company sold out to another company. And uh during the transition, I I was paycheck to pay. I'm still paycheck to paycheck, but I was managing my bills. When my company sold out, I

was weekly pay and then the new company come in and did bi-weekly pay, which set me behind 3 weeks without a paycheck after that last paycheck.

So, I I I limped through that. And then in May, I lost my brother. So,

>> I went from that to a week and a half out with my brother, you know, passing away. And it just from then on, I've been playing the catch-up game. And I've I've got down to not only personal

issues with myself and substance abuse and getting through that. And then now, you know, I'm I'm more than 90 days

behind on every non-essential bill outside of what I need to keep my house lights and things like that going. So,

uh, what my plan is, and me and my wife

have sat down, and we we both agree 100%

is that we want to invest, you know,

it's not going to be a large portion like five, six thou, $7,000 into a

mobile home that we can purchase, own it outright, and place it onto her

grandmother's property, allowing us to have 100% access of my income to try to

nip this out as quick as I can to get that back to square root. But I think the only advantage that I have is I'm I'm sub $15,000 in total debt.

>> So 15,000 clears your debt.

>> Is that what you're saying? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> And what do you make, sir?

>> Uh right now I bring home about 2,200

every two weeks. So 44 a month >> plus every two That's every two weeks.

So, plus two times a year you have 6600.

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And uh what do you do?

>> I'm a truck driver. >> Okay.

All right. And what what does it take to

bring you current?

>> 15 15,000 makes 15,000 makes you debtree, but what brings you current?

To >> bring me current, I'd probably have to be just south of

probably 35 >> $100.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And where would you get the 5,000 to buy the trailer?

>> Well, that's what speaking with my wife,

we agreed to take what we potentially could get back on our income taxes next year to try to just wean it out. I know it's a short matter of time before these things will go into collections and

I figured that once we got >> What kind of debt is it?

>> I'm sorry. >> What kind of debt is it that you're behind on?

>> I have uh two personal loans and uh credit cards and well I take that but three personal loans and credit cards and then my wife has credit cards as well. >> How much How much is your rent?

>> My rent is 1,600.

Okay. So, you're not talking about making this move. Well, now I guess you would file your taxes after the first of the year. So, you get the money probably in February, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Which would also be enough to catch you up.

>> Like close to it. Yeah. As long as I could find a cheap enough and, you know, something that would accommodate us.

>> No, no. I'm just saying if you didn't buy the trailer and you stayed in the rental, >> you could use the refund and be caught up.

Uh, close to it. Not not all the way. I don't know. >> No. You said you're 3500 behind and you're talking about buying a $5,000 trailer. What's your refund going to be?

Which is it?

>> I'd say it's probably 67,000. That's I

mean it is >> Does that 6 or7,000 makes you current?

>> So that would bring my loans back up to current. >> Yeah. And you don't have to buy a trailer.

>> I see that. But I mean, the trailer was an end goal for us anyway to get out of paying rent to uh to try to move on to purchasing property after we did, you know, paid off what we owed. I figured once we could move into the trailer, then we could wipe out pretty much every debt within a mere month and a half, two months. >> That's probably pretty close to true.

Okay. Um, [clears throat] yeah, I'll

tell you this. You've done a really good job of analyzing and knowing where you are. I'm proud of you. You've really got your fingers around this >> cuz you're pretty stressed. And in the middle of that stress, you've still done a good job of laying out a game plan and thinking it through. I don't have a real fault with any of your reasoning. Um, so

here here's what I would add to this.

Okay. Sometimes I have seen people do stuff like this and then they don't play

all the way through and you have to make

a commitment that we are going to be in this trailer no longer than 24 months.

>> 24 months. Me and my wife was thinking somewhere along the lines of 3 to 5 years. >> Okay. 3 36 months.

>> 36 months. Not 3 to five. Not a vague number. >> Okay. >> Put a date on the calendar. We are out of this trailer and we're going to do whatever it takes. Extra jobs, no vacations. We're going to be debtree, have an emergency fund and a good down payment on a house and get out of this trailer because otherwise you're going to end up raising your kids in a trailer that you didn't want to buy.

>> Right. >> And you don't want to do that. You don't want to look back in 10 years slips away and you know it can.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. What what needs to happen for her to be able to work?

Um, right now me and her agree that

because of the pricing of child care that it would it wouldn't really be with

she is in school. She is learning going while she's back in school trying to uh finish out the the studies that she chose. But right now me and her agreed >> she wants to be a phabotamist.

[sighs] >> What's that going to turn into? Let's assume she has that degree today. What job is she getting?

uh she would basically, you know, be the person that would draw people's blood in doctor's offices or hospitals.

>> And how long does it take her to get that certification?

>> Uh right now is as long as cuz the the school that she is in is kind of like a pay as you go thing. So like I said, everything that's not essential to the house, I've kind of just stopped.

>> Yeah. >> So right now she's not in school, so why put her to work right now?

Well, she she has she does um like

delivering [clears throat] packages as kind of a contract job and that that helps make up a little bit, but as far as finding someone to take care of our children. >> How old are the boys?

>> Uh my youngest will be two on the 19th of this month and then my oldest is four. >> Okay. You got littles. Okay. That makes a difference. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um so here's the thing.

Here's what you want to do. You want to put a deadline on the trailer if you're going to do it. Um, I'm not sure I would do it, but I'm not sure I wouldn't do it. But if I did do it, I don't want to get stuck there. I want to make enough radical changes in our lives that we move away from that time in our life and it's in the rearview mirror forever.

>> Okay. Um, you guys have been through hell and the crummy year that you've had

has highlighted for you that living paycheck to paycheck is no way to live.

It's no fun.

>> Not at all. >> And so when Sharon and I went through going broke, we had a never again moment. And I want to make sure that you guys, you the two of you hold hands tonight and look each other in the face and say never again. We're going to step into a trailer for 24 to maximum of 36.

But never again are we going to be here.

We're going to work like crazy people and we're going to have goals and we're going to live on less than we make and we're not buying anything on debt. Never again are we going to be back here. We have an emergency fund so that a lousy

10 grand doesn't put completely stand us on our head.

>> Yes, sir. >> Cuz $20,000 would change your whole life right now.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's how that's how quick this could turn. You didn't call me up with 300,000. You called me up with 15,000

and 3500 gets you current. So, you can do this, man. And I'm telling you, you have a good brain. The brain you used to work through this was excellent.

I'm proud of you. And you go now, now go play through and look back a decade from now and go, that was the time, the year my brother died and they laid and and they changed my pay. I said, "Never again." And that's what Sharon and I did. We look back, we said, "Never again." 1988.

No way I'm reliving that freaking year. There's a bankruptcy filing on the wall right across from me in the office right here. I'm not doing that crap again.

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>> Hey, thanks for having me on. Longtime listener. >> Thank you, sir. How can we help?

Well, I'm uh 58 years old. I've been divorced now for a little over five years. And I've been dating a lady who is 57 and she is a surviving widow.

Um she uh if we get married before we're

six before she is 60, she uses all of her loes all of her surviving spouse uh social security benefits. and he was a big contributor up until he was about 58 years old. So, she would receive the max. And I've heard your your conversations today with uh people about getting married and how the chances are of divorce if you don't get married within a certain point of time.

And we've been dating now for a little over two years.

for the rest of her life.

What's your household income or what's your income? I'm sorry.

>> My income is about $150,000 a year.

>> And what's her income?

>> Her income is just living off of what uh she she got and she's down to a little over 600,000. And uh

>> Okay. What's your nest egg? >> It's about money.

>> My nest egg is I've recovered to just a little over a million in my retirement account and I have no debt and I have a paid for house. It's a little old house here in Texas worth about uh 400,000.

>> Okay. Have you all been discussing marriage prior to this this thought pattern here?

>> Sure. Yes, sir. We'd been dating for for a little over two years and fell in love immediately and uh >> Mhm. >> been talking to both of our parents about it and both of our family. She's got two stepkids and I have two step because of course of course they're all grown. Everybody loves each other and doing great. >> That's good. >> But >> okay, I'll tell you you ask a question and I'll give you a straight answer. The

um >> Sure. >> The way I try to do stuff and Max, you said you're a longtime listener so you know this. I try to put my I've never been in your situation. I'm 65. Um so

we're fairly close in age, but if I try to put myself in your position, what would I do if I were in your shoes? And

um for me the joy of uh a lifetime comp companion that I'm in love with um supersedes 48 grand a year.

>> Sure. >> And for me that's called marriage. I'm a person of faith and that's called marriage. And I don't have any confusion about that at all in my mind or in my spirit. Either one. Um, for me, I don't want to look at her dad in the eyes. Um,

unless I'm saying this is my wife. Um,

for me, uh, and I can't make that be for

you. You've got to decide that. Um, you guys are, you know, you're going to have a net worth of $2.5 million,

uh, or more and a really good household

income. Uh, and you don't have to have

the 48,000.

It's just a minor thing. Um, and so for

me, it's just for 50 grand, what can I buy? I can buy a marriage license and 50

grand a year. But, um, but, you know,

uh, uh, >> well, we're trying to take that into account to where we need to retire. We both, you know, since we just found each other late, we're trying to figure that into retirement.

>> You got two and a half million dollars to retire off of. I think you're going to be all right.

Well, the way we figure that out, too, is is uh it's not necessarily the the

220,000 a year. It's uh of course the broker has to take a fee of 1% and then it's taxed and we'd have to get our have to get our income up pretty good to have net of what we feel like we'd like to be able to enjoy. But I >> Which way were which way were you leaning before you called us?

>> Obviously, he didn't want to marry her.

Yeah. >> I'm just curious. >> Oh, no. I do want absolutely All you did, you answered my question with numbers >> telling me why you shouldn't do it. And I that's that tells me what you want to do. So, no, I mean, you do what you want to do. Uh I'm going to be mad at you either way. We'll still be friends. But um but the uh but I personally

I I just see a tremendous spiritual, relational, emotional, and even financial value in being married. More

than 48 grand a year.

I just do. I I just think it's valuable.

And if I were 57 and had met the person

I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, there's no way I'm letting her freaking get away over some math nerd

stuff with my financial planner, you know, trying to figure out, well, I got to pay him 1%. Who gives a crap? If you don't want to pay him 1%, don't pay him.

But don't lose her either.

>> Well, I think it's really clear for our audience to understand what how we view marriage. And no judgment here, but my guess is that they're living together.

And so when you've already made that decision, we're living together, fell in love with her early, they've been dating two years, I'm reading between the lines, it's probably what's going on. So therefore, this is all about a money question. And we're coming at this not from a money answer, not in the situation. It's just the way we see things. So >> yeah, but here's here's the other thing.

It is. It does end up being a money thing, especially maybe not in his situation exactly, but as much, but in when I'm talking to these 24 year olds and whatever and you know, we've been we've been living together for four years. >> Yeah. Great. Okay. But all the data says when you're 46 that that that you missed out on hundreds of thousands of dollars.

>> That's right. >> For that 24 year old. Okay. So, the the it is math, too. and and I've got to think that the marriage advantage >> plays into this situation. Although I can't put my finger on exactly where it will, but I'm thinking it's 50 grand a year easy. >> Mhm. >> Um that the working together, the combining of forces.

>> Yes. >> The combining of how we're going to get at this. I just I think it has a monetary value. That would not be my motivation.

To your point, though. >> That's all I'm saying. I agree with you. >> It's not it's not the driving decision making.

>> We just happen to have a position that the money plays out as well. In other words, we think this is a moral decision that also has money implications in the positive. And it's not our opinion, by the way. Dave's right.

>> Yeah. Now, the um the 35year-old, as an

example, it's not Max's situation again, right? >> But the 35year-old that is married has

13 times the net worth of an unmarried

35-year-old. >> Yeah, >> there it is.

That means shacked up and that means single and that means divorced and that means widowed. It could be anything. But

an unmarried 35-year-old has 13 times

less money on average in America. It's a huge advantage.

>> Married men live 9 years longer on

average than unmarried men. Deloney

thinks it's because wives keep us from doing stupid stuff. >> There's no question. [laughter] I don't think that's the singular issue, but clearly a key issue. >> You're going to eat that?

>> Yes, I'm going to eat that.

>> It's really true. >> And I'm going to have two of them.

[laughter] >> Or this is the one that I get a lot.

You're going to try that? Are you aware of how old you are? [laughter] You know, it's like the thing that could cause a lot of bodily harm, which might begin the downfall. Stacey, >> that's an actual That's an actual number. And married ladies only live four years longer than unmarried ladies.

So, it extends male. Uh, >> what is it that we do for women? Let's let's let's get something a score for the men here. What do we do that allows women to live longer? >> I What do you think? >> I suspect um I I don't higher net worth.

>> I could either. So, yeah. No idea.

That's Deloney's take on it. I don't know. I mean, but seriously, there there's all this data on your your uh

>> your not only your in oh incomes, married men's incomes are way higher

than unmarried men's incomes. Way higher. And I suspect that's because there's a lash on their back. I don't know.

I got it, Dave. It just came to me. The reason that married women live four years longer, if I got that right, is because they have more purpose in continually trying to take care of us and raise us. [laughter] The maternal instinct of a married woman remains strong even after their children leave cuz they're taking care of us.

I think that's what it is. I'm going to stick to >> They have purpose. There it is. >> They have purpose.

>> That's what it is. [laughter] You >> You're probably on to something.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Brad is with us in Chicago. Hey Brad, how are you >> doing? Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so my question is uh should we or should you ever borrow money uh for your tithe? >> Why would you have to do that?

>> Uh so so we own a business and we've we

had a a pretty successful year. Um, but we bought some equipment and we paid

cash for that which kind of left us a little bit uh cash depleted um here in

December to be able to what I like to do

is give you know at least 10% not more.

Um so my question would be >> you give 10% of your net profit right?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> Well purchasing equipment lowers your net profit does it not?

Uh, yeah. I mean, but but I would

depreciate it over seven years.

>> But that's a tax issue. That's not a tithe issue. If I spend a million dollars on a piece of equipment, I don't have the million dollars anymore.

[clears throat] >> Correct. But if I look at my income

statement, it would still show, you know, a pretty healthy profit. >> But the tithe is not on that. The tithe is not on taxable income. The tithe is on net increase according to Deuteronomy.

If we're getting technical, I mean, I assume you're asking a technical biblical question, and so I'm approaching it from that angle. To start with, I'm not a a Pharisee about this, and I don't think God is either.

>> Um, I'm pretty sure based on my study of scriptures that God loves a cheerful giver, and he loves and he loves tithers as much as he loves non-tithers. And when I when in doubt, I overgive because when I get up there, I don't want to be wrong. It's not any harder than that for me. Okay? So, it's not I don't try to figure it out too much. I tithe on my taxable cash flow income. And so if I

spend a million dollars on a piece of equipment, regardless of what the IRS says, they don't get to enter into the discussion on my spiritual walk. For God's sakes, >> really. >> Yeah. >> And so, yeah. So, I mean, I I don't really care what the Ebidai is, and I don't care what the the venture capitalist says. All I care is what's my net increase?

And I do that prior to taxes, what my net cash flow is for the year. And um

and usually not counting depreciate depreciation issues, it would be your taxable income uh was would be what you would deal with again with a lot of grace and mercy because this is more that. But no, I would never borrow money because there's a lot of indications in scripture not to borrow money. And so to borrow money and

go against one scripture in order to keep another scripture is oxymoronic. So

no, we wouldn't do that ever. But just the point is you don't need to if you just define tithing a little differently. So to start with and and Ken, you're a pastor's kid. I want to get your >> Yeah, my theological theological upbringing as a PC, but the or PK, but the uh um >> seriously I I am a tither.

Okay, I'm an evangelical Christian and I believe in giving a tenth of your income to your local church. And as I study tithing, it is a New Testament thing. I believe I have good friends that disagree with me and they're wrong. Um I we have all these wonderful arguments, uh Christian arguments, right, that are fun.

>> And the purpose of the tithe is not so that God loves you more. And the purpose of the tithe is certainly not salvation.

And a tither is not a better Christian than a non-tither. None of that applies because we're all walking, we're all sinners saved by grace, those of us that are Christians. Okay? And that's what we call ourselves. So, we're all walking in this abundance of grace and mercy. So, why does God have us to give? He has us to give to practice being a giver.

I will say that my challenge if I understood Brad correctly my challenge with his question of course we're not going to borrow so that's honestly nonsensical and non-biblical however the

con the principle of tithing is about the first fruits first fruits >> so I don't think it's okay to spend a million dollars on equipment and not have any money left over to actually you know so I get taxable income I don't disagree with you >> said yeah it is first rich meaning off the top, but it's off the top of your profits. >> I understand. >> Deuteronomy and first fruits are in the same thing. >> I understand.

>> So Deuteronomy says of your net increase. >> I I totally agree. But in a business kind here's where I'm sticking. >> First the first part of your net increase.

>> Spent on a really >> No, that's not a net increase. If if I if I increase payroll, >> then I I've increased my expenses and my business did not profit as much, >> right? >> So I don't need to tithe before I pay the payroll. I tie the after I pay the payroll and I tie that the very first dollar of profit after I pay the payroll.

That's the first part.

>> It's not first before expenses.

>> I agree with that. But what I'm getting at is is that you I think as a steward of your business need to manage your books. Payroll is one thing, a really expensive piece of equipment. I think to be able to say, "Well, I brought in all this money and I had all these expenses." Uh I I I have a challenge

with that. I know you don't agree with me, but I I'm challenged by that.

>> How do you I don't know enough about his equipment. >> I don't either, but maybe you're saying he bought too much stuff and and took his margins down to nothing. That's what I'm saying. >> Now, that might be risky. Okay. But I mean, out of the 300,000 that Ramsay takes in, I don't take anywhere near that >> and we and we agree we agree on that.

>> Most of it leaves in expenses. Okay.

>> No, I completely and salaries and everything else. I don't I don't just because a company has revenue of 300 300 million said 300,000 300 million just because it has 300 million in revenue doesn't mean I get 300 million >> right >> that's not a that's not how that works >> but then but then the and again and I'm again I didn't get to follow up but my point is I'd want to know what that spending is on because in your case it's not willy-nilly and we're trying to get out of the second thing is the tithe also is what he pays himself assuming he's paying himself something.

>> Yeah, that's what it should be on. >> So the tithe is on what you pay yourself. So I I just wanted to circle up on that. But I again equipment is equipment.

You got to do it.

Yeah. It doesn't matter at the end of the day when in doubt up the tithe. But uh you know like for instance we >> he should be tithing personally.

>> I'll go ahead and take it a step further since you and I are having this discussion because it's fun. >> I we teach entree leaders. Yeah.

>> To hold back some of their profits in retained earnings. >> Correct. >> Savings. >> Yeah. to run the business. Well, >> yeah. >> And I would not tithe on that until you

take it home.

>> I don't, by the way. Yeah.

>> Until I take it home because it could be spent in the business. It's here to protect the business and could be it's it could end up being an expense, >> right? >> Like during COVID, it was an expense because we had to cover payroll, right?

We used retained earnings, so some of it. So, the uh that kind of stuff. So, and and that's taxable in >> correct. That's right. You know, you don't get the the IRS taxes you on that whether you take it home or not. Yeah. So, it's an interesting discussion. But the big thing is is the good on you for thinking about it. That's right. Good on you for loving your faith walk and your God enough that you even care about the answer to the subject.

>> Uh and good on you for being generous.

>> But to borrow to pay a tithe is missing

the principle of the tithe. >> It's missing the whole thing. Yeah.

Absolutely. Then you're bankrized for you. Oh, I think I'm going to puke a little. [laughter]

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[music]

Alicia is in Maine. Merry Christmas, Alicia. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I recently found out I'm pregnant with our second child.

>> Yay.

>> Yeah, we're excited about it. Uh, [snorts] only thing is our house is pretty small. It's about 900 square ft.

So, we've been trying to rack our brains on how to either expand it or be able to afford a new house, but my husband is

the sole provider and he makes, you know, he's a mechanic, so he doesn't make a ton, but um so we're just really stuck and don't know how to make enough income to bridge the gap in between where we're at now

and if we lose the assistance by making

more money. Why does him being a mechanic mean he doesn't have money? It should mean he does have money.

>> Unfortunately, in our area where we live, um, we're in rural Maine. There's

not a lot of opportunities for them to make a lot of money.

>> Did Did [clears throat] I hear you just say losing assistance if he made more money? >> Yeah, we're like in this >> weird place where if we make a little bit more money, >> then we lose assistance from the state.

I am unfortunately well-versed in government uh programs. So you were on some type of welfare.

>> Yeah. So my daughter is under main care

which is like a insurance is a huge expense here. >> Okay. >> As I'm sure a lot of other places um we

save we get about $400 or $500 worth of

assistance per month if you count the health care and the wick.

You're you're not going to do this,

>> but here's what you should do.

>> You should move.

[laughter] >> Told you. >> I know. It's so hard cuz it's not hard.

>> It's not hard. People who are broke and have no opportunity in an area have moved to an area where there was opportunity and economic growth since time began.

>> Yeah.

the chances that I'm going to let my wife and child be on welfare because and

live in a 900 foot home because I can't make any money because we live in an area that doesn't support a normal mechanic salary or zero. I'm going to

load up the truck and head to Beverly.

>> Yeah. >> How long has your family How long has your family been in the area?

>> My family has been here.

Like I mean my grandparents are from here. >> Okay. So a long long time. Have have you seen many people get out?

>> A lot of my generation has left.

>> Why do you think they've left?

>> Yeah, I know. It's because of the opportunities. >> Okay. So you really are you called us for one reason and I think you didn't expect this but I mean this really Dave is absolutely right. You can't call and

say, "How do we increase our income to get a little bit bigger house here in a 900 foot place if you aren't willing to

get off of government income?" >> And you're right, they will penalize you. That's the whole point of benefits.

They're going to cap you and and then you get stuck in this cycle. So det

I know your husband's probably not a diesel mechanic. He's probably a car mechanic, but I talked to a diesel mechanic the other day making 120 a year. They ain't on welfare.

>> One of them can make good money.

>> They ain't on welfare. >> And we don't we don't want to live on welfare. That's our thing. Like I don't want to get into real estate.

>> But you're okay with it.

>> I'm okay with it for now because we don't really have another option.

>> He gave you one.

>> Okay. If he's a mechanic, he can have another option for you if you stay there. I do agree. >> I just want to get rid of this. You he if he can turn a wrench, >> he can do HVAC. He can do electrical. He can do plumbing. I'm telling you, he can learn the trades. >> The trades are exploding and you simply need to change zip codes in order to change your income. It's that simple.

I'd go get a dieselert in a heartbeat and and be in a major metro area and buy an airline ticket and come home and see grandma every so often. >> Come on. I mean, I could keep going welding.

I mean, a roof.

>> 160,000 a year.

>> It's unbelievable the money people are making. >> Yeah. By the way, >> makes some of these lawyers look bad.

>> I mean, you know the joke about the plumber and the lawyer, right? >> I'd like to hear it. actually pl lawyer called a plumber and he came in and he in 30 seconds he fixed the sink and he said that's $350 and he goes well that that's like $2,000 an hour. He goes I I don't make that. I'm a lawyer. He goes I didn't either when I was a lawyer.

[laughter] >> Yeah, Mike would love that. That's great. You know, in all honesty, Dave, you talk let's just I'm just throwing this out there because I think this affects our larger audience when you start getting outside of Wait a second.

Dave just told us to move. All right. If you go from Maine and we get real crazy and we go to the nearest big metrop metropolitan area in the Northeast, Boston, this is one of the wealthiest cities in the United States, they need tradesmen. And to Dave's point, if you're willing to go to the big city and in surrounding areas, by the way, it doesn't have to be in Boston proper.

Make big bucks, come back and see the family. It's that simple. Look it up.

What a tradesman would make in Boston.

what a what a car mechanic working at a Chevy dealership makes. It's a lot more than you're making, honey. They're not on welfare, I promise. So, um yeah, you

you guys have got to make some changes in order for changes to happen. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you expect a different result. I don't know if there is a way for him to maximize his income in your area, but I think you know, and I think you know there's not cuz I don't think your man's lazy.

That's not what I said. I don't think he's got opportunity in his field.

>> That's why I asked her the question, by the way. If you see people leaving, >> why >> why are they leaving? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and um sadly, I mean, it's happening to small town USA everywhere. >> It is. >> But it is the reality of economics.

>> It's just >> and when when when there is a lack of opportunity, people move. John Gisham had a uh an old book out years ago, you know, he's a a fiction writer. There's a fiction book called Painted House, but he talks about it was about a cotton a kid growing up uh in Arkansas cotton fields >> and uh dirt poor, you know, white trash.

>> And um grew up and he talks about the

cousin that moved away to Detroit. This is in the 1940s in the Great Depression in the Dust Bowl, right? and the cousin that moved away to Detroit and he came back wearing a fancy suit, driving a brand new car, working in the car factory and had married a Yankee wife, >> you know, and that's what they talk about when he's coming back. But that was a classic example of what you call a diaspora, >> which is where people move due to war.

That's right. >> Or due to weather. Katrina caused uh

Cajun restaurants to be all over America because people left New Orleans and never went back. Yeah. Because everything was torn down. the levies broke. The whole place is flooded. It was a mess. And they just said, "Screw it. I'm out of here." And consequently, there's cinjun all over America that weren't planning to be. And you know, you've got economics, you've got weather, you've got um all kinds of

other issues that drive it, but sometimes it's just opportunity. Well, let's not forget, Dave, I'm so glad you took us there. Let's not forget the the origins of this great nation as it really began to to really explode after colonial times. We're talking about the Statue of Liberty. talking about the Irish, Scots, the Italians. I mean, New York is the melting pot that it is because people from across the globe said, "We're going to leave family and thousands of years of tradition to go

have an opportunity." So, we're asking somebody to leave rural Maine. Let's not forget how America gets where we are today. It was because people left their homeland. We're talking countries that have been around forever and said, "I'm going for opportunity." And it was desperate. You're getting on a ship.

>> Yeah. >> And going across the Atlantic. I mean, that's >> Yeah. And you may or may not make it.

Yeah. >> 100%. >> Absolutely. This is real stuff, y'all.

And it's not just picking on Alicia and her husband, but it was just something to talk about. I It kind of comes back to this thing, too. I can't afford a house. Well, where do you live?

I live in San Francisco. Well, of course you can't afford a house. You have to be in the top 1% of income earners to buy a house in San Francisco right now. I live in downtown Manhattan in New York, right?

>> Not unless you make 200 grand. You don't. Um, you know, you're going to have to be in Abalene, Texas. Honey, hello.

And, um, you know, you're going have to go somewhere where you can afford to live.

economics don't fit. And you can't just decide, well, I'm in California and they don't really do math here. I know they don't do math, but that doesn't mean math doesn't work.

>> [music]

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[music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Victoria in New Hampshire. My father-in-law started a business many years ago, but hasn't been actively managing it. So, my husband and I have been running it. The three of us are on the company payroll along with our employees. My father-in-law feels the profit should belong to him because he started the business. We want to include him, but we also need to make wise financial decisions about the money that we, not him, have worked hard to earn

and manage. How can we honor our parents while still being responsible stewards of the business we now run full-time?

[laughter] I had dinner just the other night with our mutual dear friend Henry Cloud and I

can just see boundaries flashing light here. I understand the frustration that we can read into this email. But the reality is the father-in-law did in fact start the business and own it. Still owns it.

>> You don't own it. So, we don't have clear boundaries, uh, professional boundaries as to who does what, why they do it, how they get paid. It's just kind of you guys have all just been going about your business, and now there's tension because there isn't clearly defined lines. And without that, if Dave and I were on some of those, one of those goofy judge shows, I'd be going, "Look, I get your frustration, but this isn't your business.

So, you have very little that you can do here until we sit down with father-in-law and ask for some type of restructuring, at which point he gets to decide what he's going to do with his business. >> Yeah.

>> That's what you're actually saying.

And so, um, we we did not we took it over just as a favor to you >> and we've run it for a while, but um, we need to go on with our lives and our career. And so, we're going to move on.

Um, unless we can work something out to where we become the owners of this, but we're not going to continue to work here as employees because that's what you are.

>> You're not due any of the profits, Victoria. [laughter] >> You're wrong. >> That's right. >> You're wrong. [clears throat] Um, you don't own it. you work for someone else that owns the property, owns the business and you should have changed that when you walked in the door.

>> So now you've got to go back and unspill the milk, which is very difficult.

>> But so the conversation is, "Hey dad, we came in, we stepped up, we helped you out for a while, but that's not working for us long term uh because you keep all the profits and we do all the work." And so we either want to work out something where over the next little while we become the owners through some process that you feel good about and that we feel good about or we're going to have to look for a different career and you're going to have to look for a different manager for your business.

>> Y >> and either one of those is okay. But you guys went in here um and

sat on your assumptions.

And your assumptions were that you were going to be the owner and no one said out loud that you were or weren't. And so you weren't because the title to the business is still in his name. So he is

due 100% of the profits.

He owns the business. You don't own it.

And you have to change that. Um or if you don't change it and don't like the arrangement, you need to move on. Either one of those is fine. And that's not dishonoring or honoring to your parents.

to use stewardship and honor parents.

So, I'm sensing a hyperchristian take on this stuff. And it's not dishonoring to parents to have boundaries.

It's not dishonoring to someone to say, "I don't want to work here." Uh, when someone leaves Ramsay, it's not dishonoring to me unless they intentionally dishonor me. But, I mean, just the fact that they don't want to work here anymore doesn't mean that I'm awful person or that I'm automatically that they that they think I'm an awful person. A lot of times they have something else they want to do that's different. That's all.

And so that's not dishonoring in any way. >> You know, there's something there you've just pulled out that last. How can we honor our parents while still being responsible stewards?

That is a bit of a self-righteous tone that you can clearly see there. And here's the here's the lesson from this.

Unclear expectations lead to bad relations, right? It just >> 100% of anger >> every time because you had this expectation. Your father-in-law had a very different expectation. Nobody got clear about it at least to write it down and get some concrete steps moving forward. Dave, you've nailed it here.

And and >> you get angry when you expect something you didn't get. >> That's it. >> Yeah. Like when you tried to chip shot that shot up onto the green the other day and you missed. Yeah. That that's anger right there. I saw that. You expected you expected that to work and it didn't work. >> Yeah. and I chilly dipped it and it went six yards and it's supposed to be a 35 yard shot. That is that is my expectations. Number one being unrealistic. [laughter] Let's start since we're going to teach out of this.

I don't play golf enough to be good enough to expect it. >> That was just an >> No, but it's actually illustration.

>> It's just mixed metaphors. An underhand pitch, but yeah. So, all right. Yeah.

Too fun. So, that's it. Yeah. The secret to happiness is lowered expectations [laughter] >> and clear ones. Uh, realistic and clear.

That would be your two attributes. [laughter] >> Lisa in Cleveland. Hey, Lisa. What's up?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. Um, I just uh started listening to you this year and I'm undertaking student loans

for the first time. So, >> good for you. You mean you're you mean you're getting ready to pay them or you're taking them out? >> I'm getting ready to pay them. >> Oh, good. Okay. I'm glad.

starting in January. So, I have a plan all laid out, but I just need a little

bit of um advice. Okay.

>> Um up uh first of all, financial and

then the second of all the um more

spiritual. So, it might be a first on this show. So, um my first question um

financing student loans. Um, should I refinance them or should I just start paying them off starting in what are the interest January?

>> Um, it's 6.25

for both of them. I have a subsidized loan um at $29,4748.

>> You don't refinance student loans unless you get a better interest rate, >> right? I want a lower one. So, >> and if you get a lower one, you get one time one time you can refinance student loans. And so you got to feel really good about the new interest rate that you're going to get.

It's going to be way lower and and if and you don't think interest rates are going down, which they might be, by the way. So I would not refinance right now. I might wait till the end of the year on on government insured.

>> Right. >> Yeah. Okay. So wait till the end of the year and let's see if rates come on down a little more. So if you've got a six and you can get a four and a half, yeah, let's you know, let's get a better rate.

rates not going to save you. What's your balances?

>> Um, so for the the subsidized one is

29,000 and some change and for the unsubsidized one is 50,000 some change.

But the total of 79,000 and some change.

>> So 1% of $79,000

is $700.

So if you save 1% by refinancing, you save $700.

that doesn't go a long way toward paying off 79,000. So, the secret sauce is not

a lower interest rate to getting out of debt. The secret sauce is you dumping

tons of money on these things and getting rid of them fast, >> right? And and that's my goal. So, a little bit of backstory. Um I'm a traveling CNA, certified nursing assistant. >> Good.

>> Um we don't we don't get paid like the nurses do, but you know, that's why I started. You get paid more than staying at home? >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Um so I

um been traveling for 8 years. I got these student loans back in my 20s. Um I'm much older now. Um tag on about 15

years. And um three things really jarred

me into like you I mean you listen you got to do it. You got to do it. Yeah. >> Um so I um ended up getting a couple of

travel contracts um in New York and I

get one that you know pays very well through a hospital nursing home and um I

uh with with um overtime I take home

roughly if I get 16 hours a week I take home about $8,000 something dollars.

>> Wow, that's awesome. Live on nothing, kiddo. And dump it on these student loans and clean it up. They've been following you around for too long.

They're not a pet. Let's a victim. Sally May is an ugly woman. Throw her in the street.

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>> [music]

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Hi, Wilson. How are you?

>> Hey, good afternoon, Dave.

>> Afternoon. I'm doing all right.

>> I uh I'm reaching out to you. Uh I've

watched a lot of the episodes online. Um

give a little backstory. My uh father passed away in July. >> I'm sorry. And um Oh, thank you. Um he

uh he divided his estate with uh me and

my two sisters. And I had just bought a

house in July, maybe two weeks into having the house, dad daddy passed away.

Um so, uh my question to you is uh it's

kind of a two-parter. Number one, um I

don't want to get rid of my father's house cuz my two sisters didn't grow up there. I grew up there and uh you know that was the house from all my childhood memories. You know that it's a real sentimental piece to me. Um my two sisters however do want to uh just sell

off the sell off everything. Um it's

kind of a big [clears throat] lot too.

Uh along with dad's house. Uh there's a

house next door that would be my grandma's old house. We're selling that and then it's I guess maybe in total five six acres with a working farm, a

barn, a detached garage. Uh so it's it's

a big chunk of land. Um so I guess first

first off my question is uh what would

you do if you were in my position on that?

Well, your dad's will dictates that everything be split three ways, and generally that means the assets will be sold off. >> So, that was pretty that was pretty much your father's intent.

>> Okay. >> Um, and so I think your sisters are going along with that. Now, what is the the house that you grew up in? What's it worth?

>> Um, we haven't >> Oh, about Give me a number.

Uh, we'll say maybe 600,000.

>> Okay. What's the grandma's house and barn and so forth worth?

>> Uh, grandma's house. I would say

we'll say 200 just for the house. Then if you add on the land, barn, all that, you might be looking at maybe 4 55.

>> Okay. So, this is a million dollars worth of property.

>> And did your dad have other assets, substantial assets?

Uh, not no nothing that would really uh stick out on that. No, sir. >> Okay. So, there's not like $2 million in Exxon stock or something.

>> No, no, sir. No, sir. He uh >> cuz we could give your sisters that and you took the land. I mean, you could divvy it up three ways and you end up with it. But basically, most of the larger portion of almost all of his estate is these two pieces of property, a million dollars worth, right?

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

>> Okay. So if uh and what is your personal

home worth, Wilson?

>> Uh we'll say right at 300,000.

>> Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> Um I would say about five 5,500 a month. Uh

my year to date right now is uh I think

I'm right at 70,000.

>> Yeah. Okay.

Um, so the ma the math the math says

this.

>> Yes, sir. >> That you're you lost your dad and it breaks your heart.

>> Yeah. >> And with that, you're not in a position to buy your childhood home and so it's

going to be someone else's home now.

>> Yeah. And you're going to get your memories and your nostalgia

from something other than the family home place.

>> Yeah. >> So, my grandmother uh grew up in a home that was her parents beforehand.

>> My dad grew up in that home.

>> And when my grandmother and grandfather passed away, none of the three brothers and sisters, my dad, aunt, and uncle, had any need of that home. and several acres. A beautiful old place.

>> Um, and they sold it and I was, as one of the grandkids, I was kind of sad.

>> Yeah. >> But it also was a very reasonable thing to do for an adult because you go, I mean, what am I going to do? Move to another town in this old house, old country house, just cuz it's sentimental? No, I'm not. And it doesn't make sense. And so, it needs to be sold and it needs to be divvied up. But there's a sadness that goes with that.

and you've got that sadness combined with the sadness of losing your dad this year. And so it's kind of a >> it's kind of the year of heartbreak for you. And I'm sorry.

>> Um I guess my [clears throat] leading to the other uh question I had um

once I guess all everything's all sold and you know say I get my my portion

whatever check cut today. What would in your opinion what would be a good investment [clears throat] opportunity for me? Like uh >> do you have a mortgage on your home, sir? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. >> Yeah, I'd pay it off.

>> Okay. >> You have any other debt? >> All right. Um no. Uh my my personal uh

my personal truck I I paid that off last year. >> Yeah. Um, and you know, my fiance, she

uh we've already got the wedding paid for, everything uh coming up in May.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and let me Oh, congratulations on that, by the way. That's good news. So, a new a new fresh start and everything.

And let me encourage you this. Um, I don't think your sisters are bad people.

>> I don't I don't want you to have ill will towards them because they're just doing what your dad said to do.

>> Yeah.

It's not, you know, none of y'all are going to live in that house. You can't afford to. And so they're liquidating it and splitting it three ways. And that's that's what he that's how he had set up his life. >> And so they're not they're not doing anything wrong, sir.

>> So the last thing I want you to do is lose your dad, lose the house, and then lose relationship with your sisters, too. >> Yeah. Wilson, I'm just sitting here listening. I want you to reframe this.

Your dad and his generosity is essentially paying for your first home for you to get started in your new life with your new wife. >> Yeah. >> U this is a blessing. Huge. It's

>> I think that's truly what you need to do is go, man. My dad, he left me and my

sisters with enough for me to start my life debtree essentially.

>> Wow. >> That's a big deal. >> And you can become very very wealthy as a result of that. >> Yeah. your fiance's income combined with yours and no house payment and no payments. I mean, you're going to be making hundred and something thousand dollars a year between the two of you or more and you're young and yeah, but also

it's okay to just say out loud that this hurts and it's sad

>> and I don't I don't like it.

>> Uh but I do like the future that he gave you. >> So, I'm going to go with that. That's a good reframe, Ken. I like that.

And you know, you got this barn and all this, you know, before you sell it, is there something nostalgic from the house or the barn that you take to your sisters and go, "Hey, I'd like to take this." And there you can take something with you. >> Sure. >> You know, >> you know, and honestly, truthfully, uh, if you're going to have something nostalgic, it ought to be a little smaller. [laughter] >> Yeah.

Yeah. He's exactly right. Like I always think of a cool sign in the >> I got my grandma's Bible. I don't have her house.

Okay.

Yeah, that's true.

>> So, yeah, and I got my grandpa's gun and that's easier to carry around, right?

And so, >> uh, which is kind of how we did things. She had the Bible, he had the gun, but the, uh, um, but that's, uh, yeah. Wow.

And so, um, yeah, look for nostalgic

things like that because memories are not in real estate. Dirt, bricks and mortar, and real estate can trap you with emotions. It's family dirt that's generationally been there. I've seen some of the worst decisions in my life made, watched people make some of the worst decisions in the name of the emotions of generational family dirt.

>> And uh man, you can just get trapped in

the emotions of that when the old man that bought it originally would have never wanted that, >> right? >> You know, now you know, great grandpa in this case or whatever or my great great grandpa would have not wanted us to do something stupid with that piece of ground I was talking about a minute ago. >> Yeah. in in the name of family dirt cuz he it was just something he bought, you know, it wasn't family dirt before he bought it.

So, somebody's now it's somebody else's family dirt. So, let's just um There we go. Hey, Wilson, there's a lot of good can come from this. You and your sisters can be closer.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of Front Row Seat, a Ramsey Network's runaway hit.

He's my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. The phone number here is88255225.

Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're here. >> Ryan is with us in Salt Lake City. Hey, Ryan. What's up in your world?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. Thanks for taking my call. Uh my wife and I are in baby step seven with a net worth of about $1.6 million. Uh I'm calling because I have a plan to leave my corporate job for my side hustle and I kind of need a sanity check. I just want to know if I'm being a a fool to trade security for independence or you know or or is this

exactly what baby step 7 is for?

>> Well, give us the numbers. I love this question. Tell us what your income is in your corporate job. Okay, so I make close to 200,000 a year right now. And

the side hustle, this is not great.

Consistently, it's about 2,000 a month that I bring in net. And that has been over the course of two years a consistent,000 that we can count on.

>> What is >> uh so it's just buying and selling abandoned storage units. I tried the first one as kind of a hobby and now my wife calls this my hobby job and I buy five or six a year. So, it's really uh not a lot. And I've just done this in my spare time. >> Yeah. This is just above a hobby. She's right. >> Right. >> Yeah. And how old are you?

>> I'm 44.

>> How old is she?

>> She's 39. >> What does she make?

>> So, up until about uh four months ago,

she only had part-time jobs and worked in the home. But starting in September, she got a full-time job as a teacher.

her dream job that she's always wanted to do. And now she's making uh about

$4,000 a month net. So she's netting 4,000. >> What do you do job? What's your career?

>> So I'm a software developer.

>> Okay. >> The answer is no.

Because we always answer, what would we do if we were in your shoes? And uh

>> would I walk away from a $200,000 gig for a $24,000 hobby?

>> Not at 44. >> No. uh you still got a lot of earning potential. I think there's still a transition, but I think you need a better side hustle. And let me just tell you my rule of thumb on when do we leave

uh a full-time job to a side hustle just so that you have some context because you're not there. But I would want a minimum of 6 to 12 months of my income.

And in your case, that's 200,000. I would want six to 12 months of that in the retained earnings is what we call it here in the company, the side hustles bank account uh before I even thought about moving out. But in your case, I don't even think that's the right >> because this some percentage of your income. >> It's a hard to scale business. >> If you had a side hustle that was 150, you know, you could make that jump.

>> Yeah, that's fair. >> And but here's the thing. Going from >> you said software engineer. Is that what you said? Yes, sir.

>> From software engineer to junk dealer is probably not my plan.

>> I understand there's probably there's probably a middle ground here. I liked what you said from corporate world to independence. >> Yeah, >> let's talk about that and how can we maybe be a software engineer freelance uh start doing some consulting contracts and you decide who and when you want to work for and all that kind of stuff and maybe you make 250 doing that. I don't know.

you don't necessarily have to go down. >> Uh, but you got your independence and you can set your hours and and do some of that stuff. >> Sounds like you got a pitch. I I want to hear this out a little bit more because I do have a follow-up question.

Go ahead. I know you want to say something.

little bit. Uh, about two years ago, I

was ready to just jump and leave the corporate world. Uh, I was burnt out and I still am and I felt like I could barely hold on. Um, I found something that I could gravitate towards and uh,

something that I loved and was passionate about and something that I felt really proud that I had built and bootstrapped from a $500 initial investment to something that consistently makes $2,000 a month in cash. >> And we also planned two years ago, I knew I couldn't jump then. It would be ridiculous to try and say that I can replace a $200,000 a year income ever.

But that's not what I want. Why would I don't want to pile up money in a bank account just to have $10 million when I retire if I'm not happy and I would and my soul felt like it had been sucked out of my body. >> Totally get it. Let me ask you a quick question on that.

>> What is the What would you say is the greatest source of your burnout? Is it people? Is it the environment? Is it the workload?

Those are usually the big three. What What is it for you?

>> I know, but does it mean that I need to make more or the same to be happy if I can be content? >> No, but it's just But to automatically assume less equals happy is a that's a that's a not a proper framework.

>> Yeah, I understand you're >> Let me ask you another question. >> I'm very happy and I make a lot more. I I I Yeah, I'm sure.

>> What has to happen, Ryan? You've done this long enough to know something about this business. If you gave it 40 hours a week, what do you anticipate the income becoming?

>> I I've thought about this a lot. I know.

And I I've had So, here's here's my plan. >> So, um uh I the best month that I've had was $6,000 uh in net net uh profit.

>> Okay? And that was that was from uh buying multiple lockers instead of having to space them out so much because I had more spare time to do it. I have a sbatical coming up because I do have a great corporate job. It's very cushy, you know. I have a sbatical that comes up for having worked at the same company for 15 years and I have six weeks off in

March. I want to take that six weeks and I want to bust my butt and put my nose to the grindstone and see what I can do putting 40 hours, 50, 60 hours a week putting do you think you can do? What do you think you can do?

>> I I think that I could average 6,000 a month and I could have uh breakout months of 10. >> Okay. So, I'm going to tell you something after hearing your cause of burnout and I'm on your team, but I'm going to give you some some tough love.

That is a mindset issue that you

actually can control. I didn't hear toxic environment. I didn't hear a jerk

boss. I heard cushy job. So, let me tell you what's going on. You can control your desire and your desire is to be independent. I love it. But I'm going to tell you this right now. I love the six week sbatical.

Do not quit your job right now. This is the advice I would give to myself. Let's prove out this hypothesis in the six weeks, but let's not immediately quit if

that goes well. And I think you need to change your mindset starting today that yes, what's really going on in this burnout is is I'm spending all my time

thinking about my desired future and I'm

not willing to be patient to get to that

desired future in a much better way. And

I think you're just so ready to leave and be your own guy that you're missing what is a phenomenal platform by which to step into that desired future. I think you can step into it too soon and talk yourself into making less money because I just want to be happy. I think you need to be wise. I think more wisdom

less happy is the mindset right now.

Yeah. I'm a little bit afraid. No, I'm a lot afraid that you've confused the freedom that you feel doing this business with an actual passion for the business. >> Yeah.

>> You're just buying it on junk. I mean, it's okay, but it's not exactly like you're changing the world or there's passion. Where's the passion come? The passion comes from your independent and you're controlling your own destiny. And that's where you're getting your passion from. It's not the actual actions. And I think you can do that in a way that is better for your family at 44 years old than $24,000 a year.

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>> [music]

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Pre-order today at ramseyolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Cindy's in Dallas. Hi, Cindy. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? Thank you.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I have two paid off vehicles. um an

'06 Honda Odyssey and a 2010 Chevy

Traverse. But I keep having so many

repairs. I don't make a lot each month.

I'm a single parent.

>> Why do you have two cars?

>> Well, they each keep breaking down.

>> You have a spare?

>> Yeah. Um >> You have a teenager?

>> No. >> Okay. >> It's me and kids.

>> How old are the kids?

Uh they're all 10 and under three of them. >> So you don't really need two cars.

>> My problem is uh whenever one breaks

down, I use the other. But they both have so many. >> What if you sold them both and piled the money together and got a good car?

>> I don't know that anyone would give me a whole lot for both. I don't want to end up back where I'm at. Like one needs a timing chain and the other uh it's been

leaking oil.

it. I just I feel like I don't have enough to get a decent not going to have the same problem. >> How do you know? >> I've I've uh asked around for people to

buy the the worst car. >> Who' you ask?

>> I've asked two different mechanics, a dealer. >> You ask a mechanic to buy your car.

>> Well, he sells used cars.

>> I bet he does. Which means he buys yours cheap and resell it for a profit.

bad information.

Okay, I want you to take these cars and look them up on Kelly Blue Book KBB.com

private sale. I think you have a $3,000

car and a $5,000 car. That's what I think.

And I think that's $8,000. And then you go get an $8,000 car. Do you have any money at all?

>> I have some, but I've put thousands into >> How much do you have in money?

>> [sighs] >> I have about 2,000.

>> Okay. All right. And so if you got 8,000 out of these two cars and put your last 2,000 with it, you could buy a $10,000 car. Do you have any family in the area?

>> Some. >> What? >> I have some. >> What's some? Who?

>> My parents. >> Okay. You say that with great enthusiasm.

How old are you?

>> I'm 34. >> Okay. How long have you been by yourself, kid?

>> Uh, three years.

>> Is there a large church, what we call mega church or goodsized church or multiple goodsized churches in your area? >> Sure. She's in Dallas.

>> Yeah, there's a large church. >> Okay. Here's here's what I want you to do because you're a single mom. And I'm not saying these churches all have it, but uh I know several churches in our area have a program where they help single moms that have automobile issues.

So that could be a free mechanic to get this timing belt changed to then be able to sell. As Dave has been My point is I want you to know that there is some real possibilities for help. But you've got to know that as a single mom, there are people out there that want to help you with the car. They may give you There's a a large church that Dave and I go to.

They we give cars away to single moms.

You got to be okay asking for help here because it feels like if we can fix this car situation, this is going to take a huge lit of stress off of you. Am I right?

>> Yeah, it would be a lot better.

>> Are you willing to show up and say I need help?

>> I've applied to one of their programs. I didn't hear back from that one.

>> I'm sorry about that, but I would show up. >> Call them again. Prove to them that you aren't a dead beatat, which you're not, and that you're taken care of. Let them know who you are. You applied to a program with a church.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Usually there's some type of >> I know. And they didn't call back.

>> I mean, they have something where you have to call in at 6:00 in the morning >> and you you have to go through an application for them to >> Well, let's go. >> One family. >> Let's go.

>> You're in a desperate situation. Let's Let's get up at 5:00 a.m. for that.

I have applied to increase my VA disability. I'm hoping that that will >> you completely sidestep the suggestion.

>> Yes, >> you need to go do what Ken's telling you to do. And then when you get ready to sell these two cars, I would ask that you get your brother or your dad or one of the gentlemen from a local church to go with you in the sale and in the

repurchase to help you select something in the repurchase. Not that you're not able to, but you want another set of eyes looking at the mechanical ability so you don't buy another problem.

Okay. >> Yes. >> And you might even get it inspected before you buy it. So, if you could find a $10,000 car from a you from a a

grandmother that is selling it on a garage sale and um you probably could

get a very good car for that kind of money right now. And you probably can put that money together from these two vehicles. You may have to go through that church program that at 5:00 in the morning that Ken's talking about, get that timing belt changed and cause all this to happen. But you what you're doing has to change because what you're doing is not working. Would you agree with that?

>> Yes. It's impossible to save and keep.

>> Exactly. >> And you're getting tired and you're by yourself and you're getting the crud beat out of you by this situation. I can feel the fatigue in your voice. I'm sorry, >> but but you're tough. You are a tough lady. >> You're a warrior princess and you can fight through this, but you're going to have to start making some big moves to get these these cars need to be gone. A

spare because both of them suck is not a plan.

Yeah, I've I've been trying to follow what you said about buying in cash, and I bought the van in June for $675,

and I knew it needed some repairs, but it just it keeps needing repairs.

>> Well, we've never told anybody to buy a $675 van.

>> I have, but I didn't tell her that, but yeah. >> Have you We [laughter] guessed in that time.

>> Yeah. No, listen. Keep your head up.

Listen, get your head up. Here's what I need you to know. that there are people who are willing to help you and you have got to swallow. I'm not saying you're prideful at all, but we all have it.

I think you've got to show up and say, "Will you help me?" >> Yeah. I'm I'm pretty sure that we've got some pretty good connections there. I agree. >> I'm not going to name their names on the air, but um we'll make some calls for you there and see if we can help you get tied into a good local church and see if they can walk you through some help, okay?

Because you need some help. And I'm going to ask you to ask your dad.

>> select the next thing and get rid of these two so that >> you can get into a decent car.

>> And may maybe I'm wrong. If you bought it for $675, you might not have $8,000 worth of vehicles. I'm probably wrong on my math. But um but yeah, you the thing

is we've got to get the two of these put together with a little money and some wisdom and get you into something where cars are not consuming your life anymore, hun. So you hang on.

Christian's going to pick up and he'll get you with our church guys, our we have a department that works with churches and Christian, you can put her with Josh and he'll help her find somebody that's got a car program there in Dallas. There's a bunch of them that do, I'm sure. I don't want to name any of them. I know a bunch of them, but I don't want to name them on the air and put them on the spot. But we'll we'll take care of her. Make sure she's okay.

>> [music]

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>> Taylor is with us in Houston, Texas.

Merry Christmas, Taylor. How are you?

>> Well, maybe if I push the button, Taylor would be there. Hi, Taylor. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing great. How are you, sir? >> Better than I deserve. I see on my screen you're a baby steps millionaire.

Congratulations.

>> Thank you very much. >> So, uh, how much is your net worth, sir?

>> 1.1 million. >> Very cool. How old are you?

>> 32. >> Oh, wow. Young one. Good for you. And what's the breakdown of your 1.1 million? How's it invested?

>> Well, it's pretty simple, Dave. I've got 570,000 in my 401k. I've got 125,000 in my Roth

IRA, 170,000 in taxable. Uh my home's worth

about 250,000, and I've got about 20,000 in cash.

>> Good for you. Well done. Well done. And

what do you do for a living?

>> I'm a union electrician.

>> Ah, very good. Good for you. What's your wife do? Uh, I'm single. I'm not married. >> Ah, okay. And you did all this by 32.

Did you inherit anything?

>> No, sir. Not a penny.

>> Zero inheritance. So, you're an electrician at 32 years old and you've got a $1.1 million net worth. I think that kind of rests our case on the trades, doesn't it? >> Uh, yes, sir. >> How old were you when you started?

>> Uh, 20.

>> Okay. So, 12 years.

>> Yes, sir. >> You paid off the house and stacked the 401k.

>> Yes, sir. I paid off my house about 3 months ago, actually. >> Wow. Good for you. How does that feel, man? Did you ever think when, you know, started as an electrician at 20 years old that you were going to be a millionaire at 32?

>> No, I definitely didn't think that that it was going to be possible. It was uh always a dream, but I started listening to you about 10 years ago and set myself

the goal to to achieve, you know, becoming a millionaire and being able to be on your radio show and here we are.

>> Yeah. Look at that, man. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> So, you have a a uh what did you do? An

apprenticeship or did you get some kind of a a certification degree or what?

>> Uh so, um I actually got a scholarship

out of high school from a uh a local plant that I really wanted to work at.

And uh they put me through a two-year associates degree program. Um and after

I finished that, I was lucky to get hired on there. and um I did go through a three-year apprenticeship program with them and then uh so and ever ever since

then it's it's just been uh just staying

steady and being consistent.

>> So what was your starting income when you started all that? >> Uh my first year I've been very blessed.

My first year was 95,000.

>> Okay. And what do you make now?

>> Um about 200 210.

>> Okay. >> As an electrician. Oh, I love this call.

This makes me so happy. [laughter]

>> Incredible. Incredible. How's it feel to

be at this point at 32 years old? Does it You ever look at that and go, "Wow." >> Well, I do. it um

uh it doesn't really feel any different as far as how I've always felt, but um

it is it is a nice milestone to reach and uh I just look forward to just continuing to save and invest and see what other goals I can reach.

>> You think it can still be done if somebody's listening right now and they're 20 and they started a an apprenticeship program, an associates degree and move out in electrician. You think that can still be done in America?

>> Absolutely, 100%. Would you pay for your

house? >> Uh 242.

>> Okay.

In Houston, Texas.

>> Yes, sir. I'm I'm about an hour outside of Houston. I'm in more of a a rural area, but uh >> What's the area? >> Yes, sir. >> Uh Bay City. >> Okay. Yeah, I know. Bay City. All right.

Do you have any >> So, does 242 buy a pretty decent house in Bay City, Texas right now?

>> Uh yes, sir. I would say so. It's a three bed, two bath, 2,000 square ft. um in a nice nice neighborhood, quiet established neighborhood. So I >> I think that's I think that addresses the affordability concerns we hear.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah, it >> definitely. >> Question. Do you have plans or have you allowed yourself to wonder about owning your own business as an electrician? Uh

or or what do you think about professionally now that you've been in this field for let's call it 10 12 years?

>> I have I have thought about it. I thought about what other opportunities I could get into as far as uh additional income streams. Um >> what have you identified? Not saying you're going to do it, but what have you identified? Because I want our audience to hear what these options might be.

>> Well, one of them is I've I've kind of always been interested in owning maybe an RV park. We're kind of in a big industrial area where I'm at. There's a lot of plants and a lot of industry around. Okay.

And it seems like the RV parks are always full, just constant constant, you know, visitors and contractors, workers coming through. So, >> that was always something that I've been interested in. >> And that cash position and no debt sets you up to be able to do that. All right.

And I have another question.

and maybe they're feeling cultural pressure about that if their kid's handy

a little bit leans towards some of the skill sets that could work in a trade but they're worried about the perception of that not going to a four-year school.

What would you say to those parents?

>> I would say there's some excellent opportunities in the trades. It's uh

it's it's a very respected career in the area. Um you have a skill set that you can keep for life. I mean, you can you can take the skills you learn in the trades and you can take them anywhere.

And we need a lot of trades people in this country. And um there's just some

great opportunities for earning and for stability in those careers.

>> Yeah. >> Well, Taylor, we're proud of you, man.

Congratulations. So happy for you.

Excellent. Excellent work, man. Baby steps millionaires listening to us at 20 years old goes becomes electrician. $1.1

million net worth. $250,000

paid for home. That's 2,000 square ft,

three bedrooms in the Houston, Texas area >> and $625,000 in retirement accounts, Dave, at 32.

>> Yeah. [laughter] >> That's just going to turn into millions.

>> It's going to be, you know, he he's gonna have 40 or $50 million if he doesn't watch what he's doing. Yeah, [laughter] it's that that it's going to get out of control. >> That's pretty wild. >> That's just bizarre. At 32 freaking years old, uh starting out making 95

after apprenticeship and moves into $200,000 a year.

>> So there's your answer. And you know what? They didn't have $350,000 in student loan debt and a parent plus loan. It's what he didn't have. And uh so

oh they they gave the the place he went to work gave the scholarship for him to get an associates for free.

>> Exactly right. Let's just let's just track this a minute. Okay. And um this

is a different way of thinking about things. Again, we're not against higher education, but we are both very excited that the trades are exploding in America and made in America is starting to be a thing again. And uh that's a good thing.

There there's a bazillion of these things. We need to clip this call and send it to our friend Mike Row. He'll love this call. >> I I almost said it'd be fun to to to three-way call Mike in here. And uh he would be so excited. He would have been cheering uh Taylor on. Here here's something, by the way, out of the news.

In the next 15 to 20 years, the federal

government is predicting that they will

have to hire as many as 600,000 electricians. The federal government will >> federal government to do what?

government contracts, you know, like of defense >> electric chairs for the IRS agents. I mean, what [laughter] what do you got? I'm just telling you 600 over over

>> Oh, in contracts, subcontract, not just federal employees. >> Federal employees to do work on federal buildings, federal and I'm just I'm just pointing it out that the need is that big and whether or not they're going to do that or not is not the issue. I don't want you to get lost in the massive number there. But the idea here is is that >> I get mass lost in the massive government spending is what I'm getting.

>> I know. But the point is is and again I'm not trying to drive people to federal federal work but I'm [clears throat] saying that >> the need for the tradesmen and Mike's been saying this you've been saying I've been saying this there is there's going to be a massive amount of of tradesmen

who are retiring and the need is massive

which means that the pay scale is going to be very very good and this young man

Taylor not doing example >> 200,000 >> he's doing better than most lawyers.

Yeah. And no no law school loans.

>> Yeah.

There's so many jokes there. So many

jokes. Lawyer jokes. My favorite.

Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 21 and 5. The plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance.

I'm going to say that again.

The plans of the diligent, by the way, diligence is excellence in the ordinary over time. The plans of the

diligent lead surely to abundance. But

everyone who is hasty

comes only to poverty.

Ronald Reagan said, "The greatest leader is not necessarily the one who does the greatest things. He is the one who gets the people to do the greatest things." Rudy is in Sacramento, California. Hey Rudy, what's up in your world? Life is good.

And that verse is amazing. I'm going to give you an example of it for my wife and I. Uh we recently moved uh to the Sacramento area uh to be near our children and our grandchildren.

our retirement accounts a million80,000.

Wow. >> And our the equity in our home is about maybe 600,000. >> Good for you. >> About 300,000. So we we've we've I've been I've been doing your principles for 25 years. Okay. >> Good for you. And so >> now you're talking about your retirement accounts from before in your other job, right? That you've >> all my other jobs combined. I've rolled them over in IRA. I have Roth IAS. I have an S&P 500 index account. Good.

>> So, I I max everything out. We're actually closer to 20% of our investments. >> Wow. >> Of our income. So, no debt, just our mortgage. I I take cash for cars. I I only buy used cars.

>> Excellent. >> So, here's >> How old are you? >> 56. >> Way to go, man. You did good.

>> We've been working our butts off. And it's You know, your wife ought to make a By the way, on a side note, your wife should make a recipe book on beans and rice and rice and beans. There's some good stuff out there. [laughter] Except that we never really ate it. It's just a metaphor. But yeah, >> I know. I know. So, listen. The the

public agency that I got a job with, they have a retirement plan. I put in 3% goes into a 457b pre-tax. They match it with a 3% uh match that goes into a 401A

with a vesting period of 10 years. I'm not going to be here in 10 years. And Vince, it gets worse. The money goes into a variable annuity. I'm wondering if I ought to just stick to doing what I've been doing and forget their retirement plans. What do you think?

>> Well, you're not you're not going to get the match because you're not going to be there. >> I'm not going to be there. >> So, the only thing you've got is just a 457, which is just deferred comp.

>> That's all it is. >> So, it's um you know, you're avoiding taxation for a short period of time is all you're doing. Um, >> yeah.

>> H >> I mean, $548 a month, whatever it is. Each each of us, I I'm maxing out the IRA at 23,500 and then I have a bunch of money going into the S&P 500 index fund that I have of them. I can't you can't put money anywhere else. >> You know what?

That's exactly what I would do is what you're doing. I'm with you. I would avoid this thing because you're you've laid out what you've laid out is excellent work on what you're already doing.

>> No, I have a million80,000. >> Oh, I missed that. I'm sorry. I got it wrong. Million80. And >> I have about maybe 600,000 in equity on >> Yeah, that's what it was. That's what it was. Okay. So So that million, you're 56.

When you're 63, we'll be >> planning for 63. Yeah, we've been planning for 63 for 28 years.

>> Be 2 million. And then when you're 70, it'll be 4 million. And that's if you add nothing to it all. and and the C

house. I mean, you'll have it paid off in short order. I I would be chunking it on the house and in that index fund.

Now, here's the comparison on the index fund because you're at baby step seven.

You've maxed out any reasonably good retirement. You're avoiding this bad retirement thing. And so, that brings up a whole another discussion. You're not at baby step seven. You've got that um

you've got that mortgage left. Okay, I'm going to change it. I'm gonna throw it on the mortgage.

All extra goes on the mortgage. >> I called the mortgage company and I asked them if I send them $5,200 a month, when would I have my house paid off? And they said December 12th, 2032.

>> I I don't care what they said. I'm throwing it on the mortgage.

>> I want that mortgage gone. The sooner it

is gone, the faster this whole thing explodes and the more it can it's already on a great trajectory and it's going to increase the trajectory. Now, >> okay, >> having said that, and that's really what I would do if I were you, let's stop and explain why I said I like the index fund in your situation. Because here's the thing. If you've maxed out all retirement, and we're going to set aside the bad one as not even not even there, okay?

annuity, a variable annuity, not the one you're talking about, but just did that, it's going to grow, but it's going to be taxed at ordinary income when you take it out. What you put in the in an index

fund, it's almost it's a low turnover fund, so there's almost no turnover. So there's almost no taxation on it until you pull it out. And if you leave it alone one year or longer, you qualify for capital gains. So you're only going to be taxed at 15% rather than at 37%.

>> Yeah, that's what I've been my CPA told me that too. >> Yeah. So it's a great You got a good CPA. So it's a great um you know, the

S&P is a great place to park money because it's a low turnover ratio fund, but I want that house paid off. Would you say you're making household income?

Uh I I'm I'm at 120. My wife's at 60. So

180. >> 180. Okay. Yeah. 5260,000

a year. >> Yeah. >> We're trying to get aggressive. We're going back to the beans and rice and rice and beans. >> I wouldn't go that far back. There's no reason to go crazy. You're go You're not intense. You're just intentional. And I'm just saying, okay, what am I I'm going to have a life and then beyond that, do I put money in additional investments or do I put it on the house?

I put it on the house. That's all I'm saying. You're baby steps four, five, and six. is right where you are is four and six cuz your kids are grown. But yeah, so well done Rudy.

Congratulations. Another millionaire we talked to. Yeah. >> That became a millionaire because of doing the stuff we teach. >> Yeah. And and again, good good income, not insane income, you know, just really consistent for a long period of time.

It's what the scripture led off to. And he said, I model that. And he did.

>> That's exactly right. Diligent prosper.

Joe's in Toledo. Hey Joe, what's up?

>> Hey, what's going on? Uh Dave, how's it going? >> Great man. How can we help?

>> Hey man, just got a question. Um so my wife and I, so we we're avid followers of your program. We just actually uh diligently paid off about 58k in debt. We sold our house. Uh we to do that and we rent now >> and boy, let me tell you, that was a lot. But we could finally breathe right now. But so my wife has a good job.

She's a nurse practitioner, you know, she works 9 to5 home with the boys. I got four part-time jobs and I'm only making around 30k.

>> Well, what's your career field? What are you trying to build a career in?

>> Well, I I'm passionate about like audio

production and stuff like that, but >> I don't care what you're passionate about. I asked what you were trying to build a career in.

[clears throat] >> I don't know yet. That's what I'm trying to figure out. >> Okay. >> I'm trying to figure that out. I wonder if >> you sucky part-time jobs. Okay.

[laughter] >> Yeah.

>> All right, Ken. >> Yeah. You know, when I when I meet somebody like you, we have very limited time, so we got to cut right through here. So, I want you to give me the the heart answer, not think about this.

>> What What would What would you try >> if you knew you couldn't fail and and you knew you could do something else?

And you could make 100,000 a year.

>> Yeah. Just what what's at the top of the heart there? What is it? >> Oh, man.

>> Say it. >> Songwriter. >> That's it. Okay.

Now, so here's what we know. It's very, very hard to make it as a songwriter. I've got several friends that are some of the best songwriters in Nashville. They're amazing.

So, we got to then step back and go, okay, that's what we would try if we couldn't fail, but I love music. There's a theme between the audio engineering, the songwriter. Yeah, >> there's a theme there. Okay.

So again, to Dave's point, we got to work our way to this ultimate job.

not going to cut it. So I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle. That's my gift to you. But you've got to figure out what can I >> finding the work you're wired to do. >> That's right. We'll give you the assessment as well. But the proximity principle first is all right. Who do I know in this field, just the music field

that I can sit with and see what a clear path might look like? This is just for the long term, but in the short term, you've got to stop working four jobs and find a job, a job, maybe two, that now

we're making 60. Let's make more money

in the short term while we figure out what our plan is for the long term.

That's the that's the progression here.

So, hang on the line. Uh take the assessment from find the work you're wired to do. I think it's going to help you out a lot. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you [music] before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 131. Quit Sabotaging Your Finances And Build Wealth | March 20, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. Jade

Warshaw, number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

John is on the line in San Antonio. Hey John, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Good answer. Not much, man. I was just calling in to get some advice, Dave. Um, dealing with the situation with my wife that didn't involve like some financial dishonesty.

Um, so just looking to for some advice like on a plan on how to move forward, um, with our situation. Wow. Okay, what happened? Yeah, so just to give you a little context, uh, my wife and I have been together on and off since high school.

Um, we had our first son when I was 20.

Um, 32 now. We separated for about 5 years, got back together. Uh, we just got married about a year ago.

Um, and we just welcomed our second baby boy in January. Um, and up until recently, um, I mean things have been great. Like I think our relationship has been stronger than it's ever been. Um, but I just uncovered like some a financial situation where she wasn't really being too honest with me. So, What are you talking about? What are you talking about? You uncovered what?

>> Yeah, yeah, so about a year ago my wife's car broke down. She was tr- I was trying to fix it to save some money.

Um, she ended up buying a new car without discussing it with me. Her dad helped her co-sign.

Um, I was told that the original car was, um, being taken by her dad's friend to a repair shop to get fixed and sold, which didn't make sense to me cuz I know she was upside down on it and I was under the impression that um she was still making payments on it and everything was being handled. Um I just found out that wasn't the case. The car's no longer in our possession. She pretty much lied to me about like making payments and she didn't know like what was going on with the car.

It was at the shop. Um I mean, turns out like her her dad helped facilitate the whole situation.

Like it disappeared. So, I don't know what happened to it, but um she wasn't being honest with me about the car the whole time. I had to do some investigating. When she was driving the car and she came home with a new car and you saw that she had a new car, what did you say? And what did she say?

Um I mean, I really didn't know what to say. I mean, she just showed up with a new car and said my dad took me to go co-sign on a new car. Um the old one was taken by one of his friends to a shop and that was the last time we saw it. I thought it was sitting at a shop the whole time, but Okay. And then up till that point up till that point >> long ago was that?

Uh oh man, that happened like

back in in February, March of last year, so about a year ago. Okay. And you guys never had you you've never had combined finances.

No, we haven't. So, the whole reason I was pressing on that on that original car is because I was trying to like align our finances to you know, start

um investing, right? Like we our house is paid off. We're in a really good situation. I'm trying to open up some college funds for our kids, which I've already done. Um so, she's never been honest with me about finances ever since we're married.

I've been pushing on it.

Um and I just kind of had to find out the ugly truth. So, here's here's the deal. There's two problems. One is you're not aligned on the money, obviously.

But the most important problem that you guys have to work through is lying.

Right.

And so, um you know, she has broken trust and now it's hard to trust her on anything. Yeah, absolutely. Because she's gone into this in-depth deception.

Mhm. Oh, yeah. It was like That's the hard part cuz it's not like it wasn't one No, it was This is not a white lie.

There's Target Target bags under the bed. This is an ongoing

major >> Ongoing ongoing thing. So, I'm operating on on top >> And your all's relationship is a weird one anyway. By the way it originated and it's come and gone and that roller coasters and babies and all kinds of stuff going on that's out of line to start with. So, what that tells me is is

that this money being out of line and then her probably her shame around it

or her knowing your reaction wasn't going to be good um is probably what caused her to want to not tell you.

Um so, obviously, dude, what you all need is in-depth marriage counseling.

Mhm. Yeah, we have >> how to be married.

Yeah, I agree with you, man. Like that was kind of like my non-negotiable was like um like if if you want to work through this, like we need to unpack all this stuff. We need to go to counseling.

I need transparency into all of our finances and we have a counseling session tomorrow. She's given me full access to all the bank accounts. Great.

Good. That's a good start.

So, if you Okay, so if you can if you can begin to rebuild trust through extreme transparency and extreme alignment where you both see everything all the time and gradually

you will begin to rebuild trust and you'll work through all of the things that got you here with a good counselor

um you're doing all the right things then. That's exactly what I would tell you to do. Yeah. Yeah, um exactly. But there is like obviously she's got a lot of debt out of the old car, tied to the new car. >> Yeah, no, >> doesn't. You do. We're married. No, it's you guys both together. >> You're right. You're And that's going to be the hardest thing for for you is if she has said at this point I'm all in, I'm ready to do the counseling, I'm giving you full transparency.

Now your hard work is going to be okay, I've got to kind of let go of some of those other things. I've said it, we've talked about it. We both have to now be focused on building this new thing.

Yeah. And that's going to be the hardest thing for you because you got burned and you're still you're still feeling that and so The counselor can coach you through not continually bringing up the past all the time. Unless there's a reason. I mean the only reason you bring up the past is if there's some indicator that's repeating. >> Mhm. Mhm. And so you know, some reason to not continue to trust or rebuild

trust. But you know, the two of you sit down together and yeah, you have a right to have been angry for having been deceived. Yes. And but then you put that

like Jade said, you put that in the back pocket and you look forward. Mhm. And we do you know, or we don't and we don't we're not going to be together. Okay, cuz it's a deal breaker for you. But I hope it's not. I hope you guys can sit down and work it out and and get the counselor coach you guys on working together and it's probably going to lead to stuff like selling that car.

Because I'm guessing y'all probably can't afford that car. Based on the fact her dad had to cosign.

Hello. Right. Right. >> And I also it'd be kind of good to get rid of that car because it gets rid of her dad.

And it gets rid of the memory. Every time you write a check for that car, you're going to be pissed again.

It's a good point. >> It brings up it balls it all up to the surface again. So I kind of like getting rid of the car just for those reasons and I don't even know the numbers on the car. And I would imagine the other car is worth very little to nothing.

Probably is in a scrap heap somewhere or it got repoed. >> Yeah, that's what it sounds like. And she hid that too. But the guy at the shop is not going to allow that car to just sit in his lot in perpetuation.

He's either going to you know, uh sell it off to the scrapyard um or he's going to uh you know, collect storage against it and based on that sell it or he's going to call the repo company and they come get it. And in either case, you probably have some financial damage there too to work through. But the two of you can lock arms together and clean up this. I've seen people clean up more.

Oh, yeah. And And let's take a minute and talk about financial transparency for people listening. When we talk about financial transparency and combining money, it's not just uh there's a joint account that we put some money in. There's There's one account between the two of you and all of your money goes into there and everybody has the passwords and everybody has the account numbers.

So, financial transparency isn't just money, it is just relational transparency. You should want It's accountability. You should want your spouse to see and know the things that you're doing in multiple areas of your life and you should give them access.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am right here because some extraordinary women in my life, mentors, friends, my wife, my mom, because they're all amazing. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between the responsibilities and expectations that the world places on them and the expectations they place on themselves, women are under incredible pressure every day. And they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well-being to care for others.

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That's BetterHelp, h e l p dot com slash Ramsey.

Lynn is in Boston, Massachusetts. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

Well, if I push the button, she can talk to me. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um I am wondering I'm in a kind of a

unique situation and I'm contemplating selling my home.

Um I'm single mom, have I'm 52.

My oldest daughter has special needs.

She requires care. Um I'm supporting her

financially um and physically sometimes, but she lives an hour and a half away from me.

I do need to be closer to her, but I also have a second daughter who is a full-time college student in my area. Um

I'm just kind of stuck. I'm financially just in a huge mess. Um

been on FMLA to take care of my older daughter, so I'm behind on my mortgage.

I'm behind on a lot of different things.

Um You know what? You're You're behind on your mortgage, why?

So, I have a my single um

household income and I had I was on like

um, to take care of my daughter my income dropped because of interim FMLA. And um, so you don't get you don't Yeah,

so you you >> your entire quit working to go take care of her. Yeah. >> And your income went away.

Well, not completely. Yeah, but largely and so you weren't but you knew when you did that, I mean what was your plan?

Well, I didn't have a plan cuz it happened sort of quickly. It was an emergency issue. What was the emergency?

She had a um, hospitalization. She has special needs. She has new um, onset medical diagnoses of

very we don't even actually have an answer to what's going on. She had a Oh.

Is she on any Is she getting any sort of

um, income because of it? Any disability? Any SSI?

>> Yeah, she gets SSI every month. Um, it's >> So so you you just went to the hospital to take care of her at the hospital.

No, she had an admission um, multiple admissions um, and but when she came

home I I have to take care of her and I have to get her back and forth to her appointments. Yeah, how old is she?

24.

Mhm. Um, so I'm and it's just me. So there's

no one else. You know, I'm her guardian.

Um, but she lives in an area where

she has supports and but not they won't

it's not medical like medical. It's like resources that you know, will take her into the community things like that. Do you have that by you or no?

No, no. That's why she's where she is cuz there's nothing like that up here.

>> when she moved there all of this you knew all of this. How What was the plan then to take care of her? >> No, we didn't. No, she was in a great place when she when she was old.

Oh, so the medical has occurred since then, but the medical not the special.

Okay. I understand. >> Right. Ay, ay, ay. So, you think the medical's chronic and ongoing?

It's going to be, yep. Yep. We're in the kind of in the middle of figuring it out and I think that Yeah, I guess you are I guess you're moving there, aren't you?

Yeah, I I really need to.

Um, I'm just I, you know, have my other

daughter who's in college and and I don't know if I sell you know, I I do have equity of about $200,000 equity. Yeah, you need to sell it before you lose it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, let's get it on the market and let's move. Get it on the market and move and then try to establish some kind of uh income and career path around to work to while you're supporting her.

Yeah. What were you doing for work before?

I'm still working. It's just intermittently um in and out, you know.

>> What what type of work?

I'm in the medical field. Okay, so is that transferable to where your daughter is? It is. It is, yep. Okay. Either she moves where you are so you can take care of her or you move where she is so you can take care of her. This not deciding is going to kill you.

Right. Well, the issue is just that how I'm going to um I think I'm going to probably have to rent, but wondering you know, if I should rent the house my house out >> No, you should sell your house.

You you don't need a you don't need a rental property in the middle of all this other mess going on.

And so just sell it. Yeah, sell it. Put the money in your pocket, go rent, and live up there next to her and move your job up there. Get a job in the field up there or load her up and move her in with you and you work your job down there and you take care of her there.

Because you're going to take care of her. You've established that. Yes. So, the only question is which location and both of you need to be there. This one foot on the boat, one on the dock and the dock the boat's leaving is not working for you.

Mhm.

If this is an ongoing thing and you're going to be needed in to do her care and you're choosing to be the one that provides her care then then that's what you're going to be doing. >> many different different, you know, things. So, thank you for that because, you know, people are saying, "Well, you need to rent it and move back in your house." No, you need to simply stop being stupid. Don't listen to people.

"How are you going to buy something on your own?

Mhm. And that's not being a real estate investor.

Mhm. So, no. Sell that thing, put the 200,000 in your pocket, make your decision that way. That's exactly what I would do. James is in Boston, also. Hi, James. How are you?

Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Great. Uh so, the reason I'm calling, I'm 22 years old, graduated from college last spring. I've been working full-time since summer. Um I would say that my income and net worth are probably in the top couple percent for my age um due to varying circumstances. I have a good job. Um a lot of my money that I have came from a life insurance policy from my father who passed when I was younger.

I'm sorry. And then some Oh, no. Don't be sorry. It's It's all right.

>> What's What's your degree in?

Computer science. And what do you do for a living? I do software engineering in >> Good. And what are you making?

About 135. Good for you. Okay, you got a good income and you've got some money left over from that life insurance policy. How much is that?

Yeah, so that was about 100. I also had about 70 just from um money that my dad

had put into my old savings since the time my brother and I were younger.

Um my total net worth is about 320, 330 depending on how the market's doing. >> And what's the So, wait a minute. That's 170. Where's the rest of it?

So, uh I worked two 6-month internships while I was in college that contributed to a significant part of it. And you don't have any debt. Probably. No debt. Cuz you got 300 grand in it You got 300 grand in investments, I hope, and 135 income and no debt and you're 22 and you're in the computer science as your software engineer. Way to go. Great start, dude. >> Sure. Thank you. What's your question?

Um So, my question is uh you know I'm kind of on third base, but I didn't exactly hit a triple to get here. I mean, I worked hard. I went to a good school. I worked my ass off to get a good job. >> Yeah, you might be You might be close to second base. But, yeah, okay.

Yeah. All right. Fair enough. >> Um So, my thing that I'm trying to do is I'm I'm trying to reduce how much I spend even though I'm already saving a lot of my income. Uh I can't help but feel like the guilt of of lifestyle creep is is hitting me. Yeah, good for you. That's a good observation for a 22-year-old. That's very smart. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I see your stuff on YouTube and it and it hit me. I was like, I can't let this let this get to me. So, um Yeah, I I'm saving about 35 to 40% of my gross income. >> Okay, when you're when you're developing a piece of software, you lay out a a plan, a flowchart.

Right? Correct. And you begin with the end in mind.

You don't make it up as you go.

Yeah. You have to go back do some edits cuz things unexpected things happen and you have to rewrite a portion of the code, but you begin with the end in mind and you lay out a game plan. So, that's all you do with a budget. >> Yes. It's all a budget is. You begin the month and every dollar and every category is filled out. Every one of your dollars of income is already allocated to something that you decided it's going to be allocated to before the month begins and then you follow that.

And that allows some spending, but an amount of spending that you're comfortable with. What you've got right now is a bunch of unknown and the unknown is leaving you feeling like a financial hangover.

Yeah, pretty much. Hit the nail on the head. Yeah, you need to know exactly what your goal is. If you're putting that 35% aside, what's the purpose of it? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to obtain? And being conscious that you are enjoying part of your lifestyle and Dave is exactly right. A budget will help you do both of those things. Now, put an amount down for fun and then go have some dadgum fun. Yeah, you're doing well. You're 22, you're killing it. I'm proud of you.

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Mhm. Go download our EveryDollar budgeting app for free. It'll show you everything you need to do in the App Store or Google Play. Haley is in Houston. Hi Haley, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you? I'm good. Good.

What's up?

I have a question for you. So, I've been with my boyfriend for a little over 6 years and I graduated

uh in that December 2023 with about 160

loans $160,000 of student loan debt.

Uh I've paid off a lot. I have about $90,000 left.

Way to go.

Thank you. So, so you're what? 24?

I'm 26. 26, okay. And what's your field of what's your career?

I'm a nurse. Oh, good for you. Okay. And so you got 90,000 left, all right? Mhm.

And my boyfriend makes 250,000 a year,

but he does not want to propose until I'm completely debt free. Mhm.

Interesting.

You're not going to like me.

If you were my daughter, you want to know what I would tell you?

What? Dump him.

Yeah, I mean, he's a great guy.

>> not. No, he's not.

No, he's not. >> He's He's making you prove your worth.

Based on money. Yeah. To him.

You're having to buy your way into this relationship. Nope. You're a princess and you deserve more than this.

The reason I've been able to like uh put like majority of my paycheck towards my loans is cuz he does pay for all our rent. Oh, so you live together?

Yeah, we live together. Mhm. So you're already married, but you just didn't admit it.

Yeah, it does feel like we're married.

Well, that gosh. I So what what's his incentive to get married? None.

And this this let me just say this, Haley, and I'm saying this cuz you're going to have relationships after this and you're going to learn from this and there's people who are going to watch this call and learn from this.

This is precisely why uh one of the reasons why living together before marriage is a is it's a bum idea. It's not a good idea because what happens is you start to make bad relational decisions based off of the

financial gain and based off of the pressure that you've already put on yourselves. It's a lot easier to walk away from a messed up relationship when he lives over here and she lives over here and we just get together when it's time to go on our dates. It's a lot easier to go, you know what? This guy's a bum.

I'm going to walk away. It makes it a lot more difficult when suddenly you're in the same house and then you're splitting the bills and then he's paying for the rent. It makes it very hard to make the natural transitions that we would have made if we had not applied that amount of pressure.

Because you chose to share an address.

Anyway, now you're not going to do it. I can tell by the way you're talking. So, here here's the thing. We love people getting out of debt.

You know that. And why do we love people getting out of debt? Because we love people and we want them to be able to prosper. And your number one wealth building tool is your income.

You have a fabulous career choice as a nurse. You'll always be employed and you can always work as much as you want to work. You can work 80 hours a week or you can work 20 hours a week as a nurse. You'll be able to do that the rest of your life.

All we tell couples to do is to be aligned, be in agreement on how

money is going to be handled. Now, he is in agreement that he hates debt. You're in agreement that you've hated debt and you've been working it down.

Okay? But then he he um he has put up a

false block here. I'm just telling you I I I love you and I if you were my daughter, I'd tell you not to marry this guy.

And uh because I think he's he this is a false premise.

Um you're aligned on what is important.

You're aligned on Okay, we don't like debt. We're going to avoid debt. We're going to get out of debt. Um and that's not a I People ask have asked me since I came on the air here 35 years ago, should I marry someone with debt? And the answer is always yes. Mhm. As long as you love them and you're aligned that we're getting rid of the debt.

If you have zero debt, but one of you loves debt and hates saving and the

other one loves saving and hates debt, you're going to get a divorce later.

The number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. And guess what this is? This is a money fight. Yeah. You're just not having it out loud. You're having it in your head. Yeah, that's right. Now,

what could be going on, and I'm going to allow a little space for this, he could just be an idiot today and he just needs

to learn a little bit about what it means to be in a relationship and what it means to handle money together. You said one thing that might cause me to go, I wonder if I brought this to him and, you know, saw premarital counselor if we can get on the same page, is it seemed like he was willing to help with

the debt. Now, you guys aren't, you know, married yet, but in a married relationship, it seemed like he was willing to help, but he was helping in the wrong way. And so, that's the only thing that makes me think he's he might possibly simply be misguided because he said, oh, I'll pay the rent. >> could go to a marriage counselor and premarital counselor and say, look, let's get aligned on this or we're going to end this.

>> Yeah. >> But, if it if at the end of the day the the answer to the question is, I won't marry you. Yeah, then yes, we have a problem. >> off your debt.

Um, you say answer, the question's answered. Are you value that more than you value me? Mhm. See you later, alligator.

>> Yeah. Holla.

You'll be gone. Yeah, I mean, I'll be done with this. I'm just not doing this.

Absolutely. Yeah. What do the cool kids say? See you, Felicia, or something? So, Bye, Felicia. Bye, Felicia. Yeah. That's the cool kids, like 20 years ago, the cool kids, right? Yeah. See That's going to I'm going to remember that forever, Dave. That was great.

See you later, FELICIA.

GET OFF MY LAWN, OKAY? I'M THAT GUY. All right. Good.

Charisma is in California. Hey, Charisma, what's up?

Hi. Hey. >> Um, oh gosh, I'm kind of nervous to talk to you. This is amazing. >> Well, we're glad you're here. How can we help?

Um I am currently working the debt snowball as of right now. I have

paid off $10,000 of debt in the last 6 months on a $50,000 income with >> Good for you. Well done. Yeah.

Yeah, no child support, nothing. All myself. Cool. How can we help today?

I have currently been paying off a credit card debt that I have >> Mhm. >> and I finally sorted through some

collections that I have from my second child pregnancy, um my pregnancy with

her. How old is she now?

She will be two in June.

>> Okay, so these bills are 2 years old.

Okay. Yes. Um and I have uh notices from

collection agencies.

>> Mhm. Um however, most of them have not

like I just have mail. They have not really tried to call me. Um there's nothing that shows up on my credit report. There's no other like

anything showing up. >> Doesn't have to show up on your credit report for you to owe it.

You went in the hospital, you had a baby, they sent you a bill. Is the bill accurate?

Yes, my other >> Then you owe the bill. Then you owe the bill. >> Okay. Okay. Um now how much is it? I finally

>> Give me an example. >> a few of them. There's a few of them. I have one for 54 the biggest one. Okay, the biggest one is $1,294. Good. Okay. I want you to save

up $200 and I want you to call them.

And I want you to say, "I'm a single mom. I make $50,000. I'm so broke I can't pay attention. I do want this off of my list though. Uh it's $1,294 is the

bill I have in front of me. I have $200.

If you'll take that as settlement in full, I will send you the $200."

Okay. And they They scream and yell and call your names, and then they'll take it.

Okay. Get it in writing or don't give them money, and do not let them have electronic access to your checking account. Send them a prepaid debit or a wire or something else. But no access to

your checking account and no money until it's in writing that the $200 is settlement in full. You might take $300,

but you can get rid of that one. You can get rid of these at 20 cents on the dollar on average.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Shelly is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Shelly.

How are you?

Hi. I'm so happy to be on with you guys today. That's nice. I have a question for you regarding um anxiety over money. And um that's kind

of recent for me in the last 5 years.

Okay. Anxiety over not enough money, too much money?

Piles of money scare you in the middle of the night?

It just is a fear of handling money. Um

I don't We have We live very comfortably. We have absolutely no debt.

Um my husband makes a great living for us both. Um our kids are A fear of messing up?

>> Maybe that's it, but it's I mean, it's even I I can handle paying bills, and it's kind of been my responsibility during the marriage um because he's very

taxed with his job. And um

um but even incoming checks or things

that come in. Um I I'm just very anxious and um it's

gotten to a point now where and and he knows >> sorry. You So, you get a check in the mail and that makes you anxious.

Yes. It's it's it's strange. Is it Have

you always been the one that kind of handles the kind of like the day-to-day of the money or is that new a new role for you?

No, no. I've always handled it and I've always done fine with it. It's only in the last

five >> Are you in therapy for something else?

No. If if you had to link it >> would What would you say this is linked to?

Yeah, if you had to link it to something maybe the way you grew up, something that happened at this time in in in your life or in your childhood, what would you say?

I would I link it to kind of

since COVID it's become very magnified for me. Okay.

So, uncertainty. >> And we Yes. Yes, I would say uncertainty. I try not to listen to all the noise. I I call it noise, but It is noise.

>> that you can listen to a million different things and I try to just walk forward being very stable listening to for you you guys for example and my husband's very very stable in everything um as far as Okay, so I I I would do a couple of things is um now I I I don't know the answer. I'm not a therapist. I wish Dr. John was on with me today.

I'm sorry sorry I mean or wish he was on with you.

So, I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And I'm going to send you a copy of Dr.

John's book on anxiety. Yeah, redefine

>> anxiety. Um because he says anxiety

is your friend because it's an alarm bell going off warning you about something.

Okay? >> I see. And uh and he teaches to solve

for peace so that the alarms can go off. In other words, if the fire alarm's going off, we don't want to take out the batteries, we want to put the fire out.

Sure. Cuz the fire alarm is actually my friend. It's keeping me from burning the house down.

That's what anxiety's doing. It's keeping you from messing up. And so he sees anxiety as your friend because it's saying get out of the street, a car is coming. That's anxiety. It's fear, right? And so

I don't know if there's an actual thing here, but it could be. So I'm going to send you both of those books. I want you to read through them. The second thing is I get I want you to get on a detailed

budget on every dollar.

And I want your taxed husband to look

over it with you and the two of you together approve the budget together.

Okay. >> That won't take a lot out of him. Then when you're writing the checks, you're not making all the decisions and writing the checks, meaning you're not emotionally carrying the weight of the management of the household, you're simply the check writer.

Okay. >> We as a team sat down and looked at every dollar and said this is where our money's going to go, then it doesn't require any anxiety at all for you to simply execute what the team has already told you to do. In other words, if the CFO and I sit down and say these are the bills we're going to pay this month and we hand them to to a lady in accounting and she writes the checks, she has no stress at all.

Sure. Cuz she's not worried about it. I told her what to do and she did it. So you and your husband are the CFO, you're going to decide what to do and then you're going to be the lady in accounting that writes the checks, and that's a different level of stress cuz right now they're intertwined, and each time you write a check or deposit a check, you're also making all the decisions.

So, each of those transactions is is carrying the weight of the whole household, and it shouldn't be.

Okay. Is that logical? It's That's very logical. In his defense, he has tried >> I'm not asking I'm not I'm I wouldn't throw anyone under the bus. I don't think he's a bad guy. Okay. I just want him to help. >> I just wanted to make that clear. >> Yeah, but he but he starts helping today.

Yeah, the day-to-day, you're right, is different >> minutes a week. 30 minutes a week, he looks at the EveryDollar budget, and we make our decisions of where our money's going to go, and then the rest of the week you execute, submit payment on the website.

Okay. And that's really easy for you then. And so, when a check comes in,

that decision's already made before the month begins. We We know that check is coming in. And if an unexpected check comes in, well, that then we have a celebration, and we sit down together quickly and say, "What are we going to do with this extra money?" And we decide that towards our current needs and our future wants.

Understood. Yeah, and I think that's kind of lowered a lot. And And I guess the last thing is start setting some saving and investing goals because I can promise you when you have a million dollars in a mutual fund, your stress level, your anxiety level is lower than when you're broke and can't pay your electric bill.

Well, that's just it. We do have a great net worth. >> You have a what net worth?

We have a great net worth. >> What's that? What's a great net worth?

It's probably just south of 10 million.

Shelly, I can tell you some things practically, and and again, Dr. John's not here, but I can tell you some things that I've done cuz what you're saying, the things I've heard you say, they're so vague. It's like, "Uh, I'm just afraid I'm going to ruin everything. And it's very hard to solve a vague problem.

But what what you can do is spend some time in writing down exactly, try to get as specific as you can, what am I actually afraid of? Am I afraid that uh

you know, if I take this check uh and and use it for something fun, it's going to cause us to not have enough money to to pay the mortgage, therefore you know, snowball effect, right? Write down what it is, and then you can actually have a clear solution to the problem. If you keep it vague, there's never going to be a solution, and you just keep to get to keep spinning your wheels. So, try that.

It has worked for me. Now, details, if you can push facts out onto the page, >> Mhm. facts are your friends, and um

the they will cause your brain to calm down. >> Yeah. Um you know, John talks about it in a trauma situation. What are the actual facts versus what are all the things you're spinning up?

>> Yes. >> What What drama narrative is spinning up in the trauma? And um and and I don't know, there's something happened somewhere, probably maybe your childhood or somewhere, but there there's something associated with this. And I'd I'd want to know what that is if I could figure it out.

That's why I think Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, might be a thing. She talks about the different kind of households we grow up in, uh where the the toxic views of money or stre- high stress around money. I mean, if you saw your mom crying every week over money, uh then you think that's kind of how things are supposed to be.

I got 10 million dollars, but I'm still crying every week over money.

And um you know, I don't know what it is. I I have no idea. But um I I

you know, I appreciate your question. It's an excellent question. A lot of people do struggle with that.

More than anything though, they struggle with this feeling of inadequacy, like I'm not competent.

I'm not good at this. I'm not good at math. I can't do money cuz I'm not good at math. Well, it's the math is like seventh grade, fourth grade, somewhere in there, you learned the math. It's really not difficult. I mean, if you pass your driver's test to drive a car, you can do the math. It's not that hard, but it's intimidating if you categorize it over there as like some kind of mythical thing. And and it's just, you

know, >> I promise you I could teach a 12-year-old how to do this stuff. Um and and even ones that aren't good at math.

So, it's just it it it's doing it and

developing a little bit of a rhythm and a practice and a confidence Mhm.

>> and in your competence and then your stress level just goes down with that.

It's a great question though, cuz you're not the only one feeling this, I promise you. You might be the only one with $10 million feeling it. No, I'm kidding.

Hey, thanks for the call.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Steven's in Oklahoma City. Hi Steven, how are you?

I'm good. How are you doing today, sir? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, I've got uh a lot going on financially. Uh I inherited

some money when my dad passed away a few years ago. And uh it feels like I've just kind of jumped from one disaster to the next with it. And really just haven't had any peace since then.

I've got some rental properties and things like that that I've spent a bunch of money on that are just eating me alive and I'm debating on selling them and just being done with it.

Okay. So, how much did you inherit?

Uh I inherited uh let's say 750,000 in between cash and

stocks and then another 750,000

in equity in a business. Mhm.

Okay. What happened with the What's the status of the business?

The business is still there.

Um my uncle who owns 50% of it um is kind of like taking over it and or

taking it over and he's just he's robbing my brother and I are Uh I helped my dad run it for a long time before he passed away, but um, my

wife and I had a daughter and we figured it was best to move closer to my mom and her family, which is back up here in Oklahoma. So, I stepped away from it and now that I've stepped away from it, you know, it's uh, it's the it's made the same amount of money every year and the profit, like what my end of it is, it just keeps going down and down and down and my brother's keeps going down and down and you know, my brother and I are really debating on forcing him to sell it or or suing him or something cuz I mean, we've had a financial audit and it's pretty clear he's he's taking a lot more than he should be and I just don't have the bandwidth to to deal with it anymore.

Uh, I said I said I said >> Freaking save our $50,000. Get you some bandwidth, dude.

Yeah, I know. I know. It's just I I I don't have any help. That's the problem. My brother's not interested and Why do you need help? >> I tried to get him to uh Hire an attorney, go sit down with your uncle and go, "This is over.

We're selling this. I'm tired of you screwing me." It's a 10-minute conversation.

Yeah, I tried and he starts, you know, he starts yelling and it feels like I just have to go through attorneys the whole thing. >> Well, that's fine. That's fine. You want to yell? I'm going to sue your butt.

Well, the judge will help you with this.

You can't screw me anymore. I'm done with your screw You think you can yell at me and that makes you allowed that makes you okay to screw me? As a matter of fact, that makes you less likely to be able to screw me.

Well, he's just he's under the impression because, you know, I don't >> You're wussing out, dude.

You're wussing out.

Yeah, you're correct on that. It's just I don't know. It's just I hate having drama in my family and it's like >> Okay, then write the then get a piece of paper and sign the thing over to him and walk away from your money. Quit your whining.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I Either fix it or give it to him.

But don't just stand there and get screwed and like it.

Yeah, well, I definitely don't. So, I I guess that would be the solution to that. >> I do one or the other. Make a decision.

Either walk away from it or punt him.

Personally, I'd take great joy in punting a crook.

Why are you scared of him?

>> I don't know. I see he's just the last member of my dad's side of the family left. >> Yeah, which just means he should The last thing he should be doing is screwing you.

I know, that's what I feel feels like, too. I just It's really made me angry cuz I grew up with the guy who was almost like a second father. And then like, you know, the seconds of money >> No, you're not angry. You're afraid. >> Yeah, I think you're scared of him.

You're afraid he's going to yell.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just unfortunate cuz it's like I It's not how I used to be. And then as soon as like the numbers got as big as they are now, it's like I just don't trust myself to make a correct decision anymore on this.

Well, I mean, you trusted yourself to run the business with your dad. And you know how to run the business. And you know what's right. And you're just for some reason you're not unwilling to address this guy. >> brother say? Your brother knows, right?

>> He's a wuss, too.

Yeah, now he he's just Whenever I was running it after my dad passed away, I stayed down there and I did it on my own for a while. And I didn't have any issues. And then you know, I had my daughter and uh I told my brother, I said, "Hey, if you want to come here and and fill my role, you know, you're more than welcome to." And he said he he wants to just keep being a mechanic and and getting a check and uh Yeah. >> said, "I don't know how you're going to It's going to be a problem." And I I knew it was going to be a problem.

No, I I've still got You bought properties, right? >> million in Yeah, I've got a quarter million in in stock and cash left. And then probably I don't know, 200,000 in equity between two properties. But the properties have been uh I I thought I was going to be real estate baron, and I bought a duplex.

Then I was going to live in one side, rent out the other, fix it up. And I ended up buying it in the worst neighborhood in town. House got broken into, car got stolen. And that's not a good place to raise a 2-year-old, so we moved out of that, and it's just been one disaster tenant after another.

And I make good money at the job I have.

I work full-time, and How long ago did you buy that duplex?

2 years ago. Can you just sell it?

Yeah, I'm It's like a It's I've just got people there telling me to sell. They're like, "Oh, don't sell it. Property only goes up." >> People are idiots. They're not in your life. They're not They did not experience the things that you just listed off. >> joy around this duplex. Sell the stupid thing.

Yeah, it's it's been a major point of contention between my wife and I. She just She wants it gone, and I'm just I think I'm finally on board with her.

>> a man of action, are you? >> you're kind of like a glutton for punishment. You're listing off all these horrible things, and we're suggesting, "Hey, just get them out of your life." But for some reason, you want to cling to them with a kung fu grip, and we're telling you just let it go, man. Sell the duplex. >> there is such freedom in making decisions and taking action, even if it's wrong.

But right now, you are completely captive to all these things that you feel like are happening to you, and they're not happening to you. They're just happening, and you're doing nothing about it. >> Mhm. So, you got You need to become a man of action.

Starting today. Ready, set, go.

When you get off the phone, call a real estate agent, go to ramsaysolutions.com, get a Ramsey trusted real estate agent, put the stupid duplex on the market.

When you hang up from that, call an attorney in the town where your uncle lives, and tell him to call your uncle and yell at your uncle.

Cuz it turnabout's fair play. And and we're getting ready to take you down.

We're going to take your underwear, uncle. We're going to take everything you have. We're going to clean out your house. You get nothing. We are taking

you to the ground. You're going to sell this place and write me a check for my half, a fully audited portion, or I'm going to bankrupt your yelling butt. I got a whole new thing for you. And turn that attorney loose. Hire an attorney that you don't even like cuz they're so mean. And turn that guy take him off the leash and say sic 'em.

You're going to have to do some stuff, man. You're standing around watching your life go by like it's someone else's life. You need to step into this thing and punch a few things and take some action and all of the sudden your stress level will go down and your confidence level will come back up. Even if you screw this up, it's going to be a whole lot better life than you have right now. I don't think he can screw it up.

Any worse than it already is.

>> No.

Light him up.

Light him up. I can't think of anybody who sold a duplex and then was like, "Oh, let me get it back." In a bad neighborhood where they stole the car out of the front yard. >> Right. Yes. Oh, I wish I had that back.

Yeah. >> Never has been said.

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Paul is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey Paul, what's up?

Hey Dave, appreciate you taking my call, sir. Sure. How can we help? Um I've got a real estate question. Um I am looking to buy a lake house, and I have found a house that pretty much checks all my boxes. Mhm. I've called the listing agent and got some information from her, and I think I'm at the point now where I either need to enlist the help of my own real estate agent or get involved in a dual agent agreement with her. Mhm.

And my question is, what are some advantages and disadvantages of being in a dual agent type of scenario, and and would a dual agent scenario benefit me in any particular way?

Well, typically what happens uh and it's

technically negotiable but the typical transaction is say 6% commission the

person bringing the buyer gets half of that and the person that has the listing gets half of that as the real estate agents go. If you are represent if the agent that has it listed does the contract with you the buyer she or he gets both sides of that so they get the entire commission. Obviously I assume you knew that and so

the only advantage might be that since

he or she's getting paid a lot more that they're going to work really really hard to get this deal done.

They know they got twice the incentive to get this closed, right? She's already working very very hard because there's a lot to unpack with the owners and

I just figured that if we entered into a dual raging agreement it would remove one link from the chain of communication. It it it could turn into a pretty complicated sale.

Why?

Well, the owners are in their mid-80s.

They live well out of state. I think they live in Maryland.

She said their cognitive skills are on the decline.

They have a reverse mortgage on this property.

They are supposedly upside down. I don't know how you could be upside down in a reverse mortgage. >> It's impossible.

It seems to be their financial situation seems to be headed for a short sale or maybe even a foreclosure she said. Oh, well, okay.

Must be it's I guess it's possible because the the property could have declined. Is it in disrepair?

It's it's not pristine but it's it'll take some work to update it and fix a few things. So you have any reason why it would have gone down in value 35%?

Cuz reverse mortgages are supposed to cap out at 65% loan to value.

Yeah, I I don't really know anything about reverse mortgages other than they're terrible. Yeah, I mean 65% maximum though, so means there should be 35% equity unless the property went down in value uh by 35% they wouldn't be upside down. That's what I'm confused. I don't know. Okay, so it doesn't matter. She still got to untangle that barrel of fish hooks anyway. And and dual agency simply means

that she has a responsibility to both you as the buyer and a responsibility to the seller, which morally and ethically she does anyway.

Okay? You're not you know, if you're a member of the Board of Realtors, you're supposed to represent all parties in the transaction with ethics. In other words, you don't set out to screw the other side in any case in the real estate business. It's it's it's against ethics.

You get your thrown out of the Board of Realtors for one thing, um get you sued for another thing. And so you just can't you know, just because one party or the other is paying getting paid does not remove you from ethics and your fiduciary responsibility.

to work through all of their complication meanwhile getting you on contract and you and her ganging up on this thing, there's no downside to the dual agency. Uh it just adds another cook it adds another cook in the kitchen if you bring your agent in at this stage. Well, she's already working very hard to get all this information out of the seller. So I mean she would probably be interested in keeping more of the commission to be quite honest. >> Yeah, well I'm sure she would.

Yeah. Yeah, and and >> no issue with that. And honestly, she should have done that before she put stupid thing on the market. So it's kind of incompetent, but um I mean, how how are we going to sell this house that I have for sale? That's a question you would ask before you put a sign in the yard.

Yeah, well, like >> Like said, they're they're in their 80s and they're old and grumpy and and uh I I just it it could turn into a mess for her. Yeah. Not sure you're going to get this house, it sounds like, yeah. Okay, I'm not sure we're going to get these you know this this ski rope's in a got a lot of knots in it. Maybe a while you'll be standing on the boat untangling this puppy. Um I don't know, it's possible, but um

you know, I I don't see a upside or downside either way for you that's dramatic. So, you're working with her, you think she's got it on the run. I would just go with her uh honestly. Uh I mean, there's but if you're if you're out there just wandering around, you're starting to look for a house and you want to get a buyer's agent, that's very standard in today's world.

Uh there's nothing wrong with that either. And a lot of our uh Ramsey trusted real estate agents have a buyer's agent on their team. Mhm. And that's a good thing.

They all they do is represent buyers. It's all they do.

that's a very clean transaction. You're not questioning who's who's getting what. This guy is my guy, that's your guy. And but they still both have to operate from ethics.

>> Mhm. Mhm. They still have to tell the freaking truth, you know? And um

uh so, that that there's a lot of discussion around the a dual agency thing in just the last few years with some antitrust lawsuits and things that came through. But um overall, you know, if you're dealing with good people, they're supposed to do the right thing anyway and that is legally and uh you know, from the Association of Realtors, all of that is is all guiding all of that. All right, James is with us in Los Angeles. Hi James, how are you?

Hey, I'm good. Thank you. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve.

What's up?

So, I want to see if it makes sense for me to sell my car. Um I owe um about

11,000 Well, it's a little complicated.

I It's worth about 9 to 9,500.

Um I owed about 11,000 on the car, but I actually did something kind of stupid and I consolidated my debt into a personal loan and that included my car.

Okay. Um, so >> So you technically owe nothing on the car. Right. So technically I do have the title and Yeah. And you have a $9,000 car. Okay. And how big is your debt consolidation loan?

Uh, 27,000. >> Okay. And what's your income?

Uh, I make about 4,400 a month. Mhm.

Okay.

I would not sell that car.

Okay. Unless you just hate it.

>> make more sense to keep it. >> Yeah. It's not It's not out of control.

Right. Uh, I mean the main the main reason why I was thinking about it is more for like the monthly expenses for the car that I have, you know, without the payment. Say like gas, insurance, things like that. If I were to get something cheaper that was better on gas, you know, but it probably wouldn't

>> Uh, well, I was thinking like So right now I have to budget about 500 a month for gas cuz I commute for work. Mhm. Um,

you know, if I were to get say something more fuel efficient, you know, I could maybe cut that in half or

But it might be it might be that I'm just trying too hard, you know, I'm trying to move stuff around. Yeah. I think >> I don't I don't know if you're going to cut that budget in half. I mean, what are you driving? What kind of gas guzzler is this?

Uh, it's not really a gas guzzler. It's a Ford Edge.

So it's an SUV. Uh, I mean, you know, right now our gas is about six bucks a gallon over here, you know, so It's high. Uh, you know, and then I do commute about 40 miles each way to work. So about 80 miles a day total.

Yeah, I mean, run out some actual miles per gallon and do that sixth grade word math word problem thing. Do you remember that one?

And then, you know, and if I had one that was I mean, what are we going to buy that's going to have half of that? I don't know if you're going to get that half get half of that.

Right. Okay. I really don't. I mean, I I you know, if you could buy a car of exact the same value and cut your gas bill in half and you love the car, that's fine. >> Sure. But the actual $9,000 car is not killing you in out of 27,000. You got other issues there.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I mean yeah, I was thinking like if I could sell it, you know, get something for like four, put you know, move some of that you know, put some of that to 27.

>> Is it just you? Okay. Just me. Yeah.

I I don't think that's your problem.

I think I think you're you're you are I think you're right. You're chasing the wrong thing. Instead, what I'd be looking for is extra income and other places I can cut in the budget. That's a good point. I think there's easier ways to get the $250 back. Yeah, because your

car if your car was 20,000, I would have sold it already. But it's just it's it's not that big a number as a in the ratio of the rest of your numbers to where it doesn't it doesn't change your life, you know? A lot of times we're talking to somebody the car is killing them and so selling the car changes their life.

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Might not be in all states.

>> All right, today's question comes from Andre in California. He says, "I have a 401k that will be maxed out within the IRS limit before hitting the recommended 15% invested.

Will that be enough or should I invest the remaining percentage in a brokerage account outside my work-sponsored 401k?"

Uh so, Andre is referring to baby step four. In baby step four, we tell folks that they need to be investing 15% of their gross income uh every month into

uh a 401k. If they have a Roth 401k, even better. Um And so, obviously, this guy is a high income earner. Uh the max this year is 24,500.

So, if you're able to do that, no problem, you're making over $160,000 a year, unless you're over 50, then the

limit goes up to 32,500, which means

he'd be making over 200, 215. So, yeah, I probably

wouldn't go straight to a brokerage. I'd probably see if I could do some backdoor Roth IRAs first. One for you, one for your wife, if you're married. And then from there, if you have access to an HSA, I'd probably go there next. Mhm.

Um, and max that out. And then if you still have money then, I'd go to, uh, the brokerage account. That's the way I would do it. >> Good, good advice. I like it. So, you know, if you did a back, a backdoor Roth IRA, um, the way that works is, is you, uh, you invest in an after-tax regular traditional IRA, not a pre-tax, an after-tax traditional IRA.

And this year, that's $7,500, okay?

And you can do one for your wife and one for you. And then, as soon as you make that investment, instantaneously, you roll it to a Roth.

And you can do that regardless of income limit. So, I did one.

And I've done one every year for many, many years. And And my wife, every year.

I do it in January, put 15,000 up, boom, boom, and here we go. Actually, I can do 8,000 cuz I'm old. 8,600 now. 8,600 this year.

So, I max them out, whatever I can put in there. That's the most you can do with a backdoor IRA. If you want to get super fancy, uh, you can do a brokerage account beyond that if, I don't know what your income is. We don't have that and we don't have your age, Andre.

So, but let's let's say you're making 600,000 a year and you're trying to keep the government's hands off of as much as you can.

401k backdoor if your company has a Roth

401k. No, it doesn't even have to have a Roth. So, what you can do is you can put up to $72,000

into your 401k in a year.

But anything over the 24 5 or the 32 5

or if you're over 60, it's 11 2 going on anything over those limits, you can go after-tax 401k 401a it's called

and then immediately roll that to a Roth just like the regular backdoor. So that's called a mega Roth or mega backdoor. And so you could do even more. I don't know if I would fool with all of that.

It's a lot to screw with every year.

But the big thing is just make sure you're investing money.

So you know, if you max out your HSA, you did the regular individual IRAs and then you did brokerage beyond that, you'd be just fine. >> Yeah. Yep. You'd be just fine. You're The good news is you're making a lot of money and you're saving a lot of money.

And so you're going to be very wealthy and that's how the formula works.

Betty is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Betty.

Hi. Um I just have a question. We have a

33-year-old daughter who has five kids.

She got married well, she got pregnant when she was 18 and then 19.

And it's been on off on again off again relationship for 15 years.

Um Are they married?

>> Yes, they are married now but he can't keep a job.

They moved across country last year cuz he had an opportunity.

He lost that job within 3 months. He's on his third job already and they've only been there a year.

Um the problem is we have no debt. We're we're doing great. And I like to help them out as far as

the kids. I don't send mom and dad money

but if the kids need something I like to

help out. >> What's an example of something they need?

Um school clothes.

Um maybe if they want to go to a movie.

You know, it's nothing elaborate. Um I go take them to the book fairs. I'll send money. She sends me the link. So, I know the money is going to the book fair. Um sometimes I'll send her some cash for gas.

Um What what what is your old nest? What size nest egg do you all have?

I'm sorry. What size is your nest egg?

Well, we'll be right into a million real soon. Okay. And how much money are you giving her a month average? Oh.

I say a hundred if that because >> So, we're talking about a couple of thousand couple of thousand dollars a year maybe.

Maybe. Does she ask for it or you just see the need and step in?

Sometimes she'll do both. She'll send me an Amazon link and say, you know, I needed the girls need this. Do you mind buying it? You know, that kind of stuff.

Or sometimes I might DoorDash pizza to them just cuz I want to. Yeah, and your so your question is what?

My husband's tight.

And he feels like I'm enabling them.

And I don't want to enable them because somehow they've got to come out of this somehow. I mean, they get a big tax return obviously if I kid.

But they go through it because they have no common sense none whatsoever.

>> If they were doing what you would consider well in life and you're still the grandma, do you think that you would still sometimes send them a pizza because you're thinking of it? Do you think you would still take them to the book fair? Do you think you'd still want to go back to school shopping? Cuz the things that you're describing my mother-in-law does and we don't need it. She just likes to do grandma things and in her mind those are grandma things. So, is it the same for you or does it feel different?

No, it's the same for me, but Yeah, I think your husband is tired of your daughter your son-in-law being a bum.

He is and I get it. He is >> Yeah, I get it too. I get it too, but I don't think it's any reason to quit doing what you're doing. I don't think what you're doing is enough money that it's enabling anything. >> Mhm. If you were sending them a thousand dollars a month cash, That's different. >> I'd call you out on it.

Mhm. But you're not.

When they moved, you know, they had to put the money down for the house and then they didn't know

they had to put a down payment down and so we had to scramble and go get fifteen hundred dollars, you know, so they could do that, which they've paid us back. He has never just given them money, never. He makes them pay everything back. Yeah, I think there's two issues I think there's two issues that you're blending together.

I think there's the the grandma moves of those little things that you spend money on that you like to do and then there's the whole issue of like like Dave said, you just don't like the son-in-law. There's this whole issue over there. I would try not to blend them together because I think it it'll take the joy away out of the grandma moves.

Yeah. So I don't So I don't even put those in the same category. They're in different buckets. I might have I might have sided with your husband on that one. I would have just said, "Hey, you guys made your bed, figure it out." Cuz you seem to be just constantly screwing up everything. So uh I'm going to let you figure this out.

Uh I'm going to let you fly until you hit the rocks or or learn to fly. And so in the meantime though, if you buy your grandkids a little bit of school clothes and a pizza, you have not enabled the work less shift less father.

Well, I mean, what point can he change?

I don't know. That's you need to talk to God about that one. I'm I think that's a matter of prayer. He could change tomorrow. You just have no control over him. >> you know. Deciding to work hard is just a decision. Yeah, and deciding to actually show up at work and be pleasant while you're at work so you keep your freaking job. That's a decision, right?

Uh take a bath, brush your teeth, all these kinds of things. These are decisions that some people can't even figure out how to make in today's world, but that's a different thing than what we're talking about. What you called about at the beginning of the phone call, I would defend you on and I

I preach against enabling on this show harshly, but that's not enabling. Yeah. That's just buying your grandkids some stuff and it's partially because

your grandkids parents aren't bright.

Leland is in Oklahoma City. Hi Leland,

how are you? All right, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I got a question. I'm 22 years old

and I started a business last year and it's kind of just went backwards on me where I'm to the point now where I've got a piece of equipment that I'm sitting here staring down the barrel of again where they're basically probably going to have to come repossess it the 1st of April.

So you started what kind of business, hon? Um custom dry fertilizer spreading business.

Okay.

And so you bought a you What what the equipment?

It's a applicator that applies dry fertilizer on fields. Mhm.

And what How much do you owe on it?

Uh 178,000.

My annual payment on it's 40 40,000

dollars a year. Mhm. And everything's just went backwards >> confused. I'm confused why they would loan a 22-year-old 178,000 dollars on a

piece of farm equipment.

Well, because I had a way to get into the business and then since then it's just went backwards since then.

I had the money for a down payment, put the money down. How much did you put down?

12,000.

But still, I mean you were not even Were you in the business already?

I've been in the agriculture business all my life. You're 22.

Yes, sir. >> Oh, okay.

All my life is not long.

Um I've been doing it ever since I could I know, honey, but I'm talking about what loans you 178,000 dollars

with a 12,000 dollar down payment when you're 22 years old. There's nothing There's nothing that says this deal should have happened. You can't Leland, you can't turn around and sell it?

I've been trying to. I've tried selling it with an auction company, but they wanted me to put a 100,000 dollars up front before they'd even sell it.

Yeah. And so you had grand plans of spreading

a lot of fertilizer. What happened?

Um I put my name out within a 100-mile radius and the farm economy the way it is, fertilizer prices is high and there's not a lot of people doing dry.

They're all going different routes.

Okay.

I'm sorry, hon. This is scary, isn't it?

It Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah.

It's definitely scary to be sitting here in this position and it's just been haunting me ever since. I guess. Yeah.

All right. Well, I went broke when I was 28 and I had more zeros on the end of my stupidity than you do. So, I I got you beat. Um Right.

Cuz this was straight-up stupid. And the guy that loans you the money deserves to lose $100,000. Whatever company did this. What's the name of the company?

I can't remember off the top of my head and I You owe them $178,000 and you don't know the name of the company?

Yeah. Well, I do. It's on a piece of paper at my house and I don't have that information in front of me. You bought it at a dealership, didn't you? What brand is it? John Deere. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

So, you don't know John Deere Incorporated the money. No. No, absolutely not. Okay. All right.

And and my plan was, you know, do 10,000 acres a year. That can be done extremely

easy and I found out the hard way that it has not been near as easy as what everybody said it was supposed to be. So, the moral of the story is we don't borrow money to start businesses because things never turn out exactly the way they're supposed to in business. That's the rule of business. And so, that's the a lesson that sadly you have learned.

The only good news is you learned it at 22. I learned it at 28. So, I had the rest of my life to not do that stupid mistake again and you have the rest of your life to not do the stupid mistake again. So, the next time you have a bright idea and someone wants to loan you money to do your bright idea, you tell them no, right?

Yes, sir. Okay, good. All right. So, we've learned our lesson.

Now, let's walk through it.

Um So, I do not know a way around this

because I don't know your world.

I'm still just sitting here aghast that someone loaned you that money. loaned you $178,000 to spread fertilizer. That There's just so many fertilizer jokes that I could weave into this, but um Yeah. >> Yeah, it just kind of come they they just they just roll off the mind right now. But anyway, the um the spreading of

fertilizer is pretty thick here. But the um uh So, let me tell you what I think is going to happen and how you can handle it.

Okay? I think you're going to get repoed at the first of the month.

I don't know how to tell you to stop that with anything that's reasonable.

One thing you could stop it with is a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, but that's a or a Chapter 11 bankruptcy even in this case, but that's a pipe dream because the business idea is dead and there's no way to revive the cash flow.

If you could revive the cash flow starting 2 months from now, you know, we could delay the repo and put it by putting it into a bankruptcy, but I wouldn't do that here because I think this business idea is just a swing and a miss.

Right. So, I think they're taking it at the first of the month. Okay, then what's going to happen is they're going to sell the piece of equipment for X number of dollars at that same auction and then they're going to come knocking on your door for the difference. It's called the deficit.

Okay? So, let's play pretend. Let's play pretend and there's $178,000 owed and they sell the piece of equipment for $100,000 and they come see you for $78,000. You're 22 years old. You don't have any money.

Right. That's where we're going to be.

It's probably going to be a year before they knock on your door wanting the difference.

It's not going to be soon.

Okay? And when they do, uh normally what happens is they push you and push you and the person files bankruptcy and they get nothing on their $78,000 in our example

story here. Okay? However, you have a year to prepare for this battle and were you to save up during this coming year by working your little tail end off uh $25,000 and you offer them $25,000 as

settlement in full on the deficit, they'll probably take it cuz they're used to getting nothing.

Right. We settle deficits on car repossessions at 20 25 cents on the dollar every day.

I've not done it much on farm equipment, so I don't know that world, but it's probably pretty close.

And the reason we're able to settle those deficits at that is because they very seldom collect anything. Usually the person files chapter 7 bankruptcy, they get a big goose egg, zero.

Especially when you look at Look at it through the creditor's eyes, not to put you down, Leland, but looking at it from the banker's perspective, I'm trying to get money out of a 23-year-old who's broke. The likelihood of that's close to zero.

Right. >> So, if he stands up and offers me 25K, I do a little happy dance and take it if I'm the banker.

You follow me? >> Right. So, what are you going to do for a living now that your life is starting over, sir?

I mean, I'm pretty much self-employed and don't have I mean, I don't have a college degree and What are you going to do for a living, sir?

Going to farm. You're going to farm? Whose farm are you farming?

Uh some some friends.

You're going to work on a farm?

>> Yes. For someone else?

Yes. And what does that pay?

It just depends. Sometimes $25 an hour, depending on who you're working for.

Okay. All right. And then ask yourself, what do I want to be doing when I'm 32 that I'm a millionaire and it's not $25 an hour work. I'll help you with that.

Yes, sir. And it's not going into debt $178,000 to spread manure.

Oh, no, this was dry. I'm sorry.

Yes. Okay. But anyway, you see the point. Yeah, so you got to figure out what am I going to do next cuz one of the things that I discovered when I went bankrupt because I couldn't turn it around the way I think you actually can turn it around if you'll work like a crazy person and stack cash and keep your living expenses very, very low. I think you can scratch up some cash and settle the deficit when they do come after you 1 or 2 years from now.

Don't call them. Wait for them to call you and in the meantime build a war chest.

And then settle it in full in writing settlement.

And I think you can get through this. I really do. And then you can just look at this in the rearview mirror as that dumb thing I did when I was 22.

I I can look at my life in the rearview mirror that whole series of dumb things I did when I was 28. >> Yep. You can you guys paid off you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars because of dumb things you did in your early 20s. >> of stupid things.

>> Yeah. And so it's you know, you're talking to the choir here, okay? Singing to the choir. So but I do want you to develop a future and a plan that doesn't involve a Hail Mary.

Don't do that again.

Learn learn from the mistake.

And we'll walk with you. Anything you need, Leland, you call me. And if you want to save up that money and when they mess with you, you call me. I'll tell you I'll walk you through it. I'll show you how to negotiate with them.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host. Abigail is in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi Abigail, how are you?

Hi, how are you Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, um I am calling you today at the uh

behest of my 10-year-old son who is also

a huge fan.

Um with the question of of how can I be

financially secure, my family be financially secure and get out of debt when um my husband is dragging his feet and not willing to participate.

I'm kind of disturbed that your 10-year-old son is involved in that discussion. >> Right.

Well, um I have been >> towards his father.

Uh yeah.

He's not the only one either.

I have four sons and um I've been very transparent not not not

not sharing everything obviously with them about our financial situation, but um we have lots of discussions about what is or isn't in the budget and what has been happening and what needs to happen and um I do now have an 18-year-old and a 20-year-old son who are actually making great submissions.

Um but my my situation um

over the past year has uh really been very very difficult as I've had funding cuts and been ill and needed surgery and um

with this December recovering from the surgery worrying about how we were going to pay the mortgage.

Mhm.

Okay. All right. Please don't put that burden on your 10-year-old.

Oh, no. His shoulders His shoulders are not big enough to carry that. Yeah, I have not put it on him. >> Well, he said he said for you to call and discuss this with me, so that's what you said. So, Tell us about him. Tell us about what's going on. Why have you not you and your husband not sat down with a marriage counselor yet?

We've been sitting down with a marriage counselor for a year. Good. Are you making progress?

Um very very very small baby steps. Okay.

All right. There's a lot of issues in our marriage as you probably would guess. Right.

Um every type of infidelity

um including the most recent issue actually discovered by said 10-year-old.

Um and uh Um so uh I'm sorry. What did the 10-year-old discover, darling?

He discovered my husband's infidelity last year. With a woman?

Yes.

Yeah, through text messages. Y'all are a hot mess.

What is your 10-year-old doing in your husband's texts?

Oh, he um he intercepted them on his iPad cuz it was connected.

It was a completely innocent thing on his end. I'm just I I I Oh boy. It was very traumatic. It was very traumatic for Okay, so the answer to your original question is you can't.

How do we move ahead financially and build wealth and build stability? You can't. Yeah. >> Until you work through a lot of these dysfunctions and you have so many major dysfunctions going on that you've mentioned that minor baby steps are not

enough. So, I either need my therapist to put it into gear or I need a new therapist.

Because I'm not going to exist in this environment very much longer.

And I'm certainly not going to allow my child to exist in this environment very much longer.

So, um we've been in Wait wait a minute.

Let's see. wait a minute, we've been in therapy a year and making baby steps, but just the other day he discovered infidelity. >> Well, I I I take >> Did I Did I get that right? >> Yes, take this as a grain of salt cuz I'm no I'm I have no letters behind my name, but it sounds like there's a lot of things probably in therapy that are supposed to be happening and they're not happening on his end.

She can't control that, so she's looking for something she can control, which is probably the baby steps, feels like something that's within her control. That's what it sounds like. >> Yeah.

I can't give you great hope that you're going to get become financially prosperous and efficiently work through the baby steps to get out of debt and into wealth um, in this environment.

So, the environment has to change for you to be able to win, hon.

And, um, I desperately want your 10-year-old to have a new environment. >> I agree. Um, this is very disturbing.

And so, um, yeah, you if I'm in your shoes, we're going to turn up the heat in therapy or we're going to or we're going to call this. We're going to end it.

Um, and if there's recent infidelity while we're in therapy on the marriage, I don't know what your percentages are

from recovering from that, but they're low.

Um, and so, uh, yeah, I can't I don't I don't I've never personally dealt with that, so I just don't know.

But, I mean, you got a lot of things that are hurting. You got a lot You got a lot of wounds, a lot of open open wounds right now that are just gushing and you guys need to get some help through that stuff before you can even talk about the financial stuff. >> Yeah.

So, guys, here's the thing.

Uh,

personal finance is 80% behavior.

It's 20% head knowledge.

Behaviors are affected by our spiritual walk. Behaviors are affected by our relationships.

Behaviors are affected by our family of origin.

How much fun did your dysfunctional family put in dysfunction? Yeah. And so, you know, all of that, right? What did you come from? Where are you going? What soup are you sitting in right now?

And um those things affect your ability to build wealth more than they mathematics do. The mathematics will correct themselves if you can get functional human beings to function functionally. Yes.

Yes. >> You know, I mean, you know, it's it's a I mean, so marriages that don't work very seldom that aren't working well almost never create a solid financial situation.

Very rarely.

Very rarely. Okay?

>> Yeah. Um people who are you know, one of the things we've dealt with I've been doing this for 40 years is 100% of addicts You're right.

>> have financial problems eventually.

Um because it's a dysfunction Yeah. that that it costs money. Whatever the addiction is. And so, um 100% of them

end up here. But when we're dealing with the money, we're not really treating the problem, we're treating the symptom. The addiction is the problem. If you're dealing with a divorce and a marriage that's falling apart, that's the problem. The money issues are the symptom. Yeah. And so, you can't fix the

symptom, you have to fix the problem.

You can cut a dandelion down with your lawnmower, but it's going to grow back with three more next week.

So, the only way to get rid of the dandelions out by the roots. >> Pull it up. You got to go to the problem. All the way down, right? And and then the dandelions gone. And that that's what they are. And so, when I went broke, it was a reflection of my

lack of character, my lack of maturity, my lack of a quality spiritual walk. Um

and it you know, I I wasn't like some kind of pristine human being that just did the math wrong. Now, it never works that way. It never works that way. So, you know, anytime you're struggling with money, you always want to go to the source and go, "What is causing my behavior change

or my behavior to be dysfunctional?

That's why I'm having money problems." Yeah. It's a foundation you have to build on. The foundation has to be stable.

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more.

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Or if you're watching on the YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Karen is in New Jersey. Hey Karen, how are you?

Hey Dave. I'm I've been better.

Okay, what's up?

I missed calling because I wanted to know cuz I know I listen to your show a lot and I know that you talk to people just not just about finance, but how to kind of like deal with issues. So, my husband

recently um took out money out of um

well, I say or it's his um

401k or um on a HELOC loan from our

mortgage. But without my knowledge and then ended up getting scammed out of that um money. How do you rebuild like from

that?

Uh how much money was it and what what did he use it for that he got scammed out of? Um so it was it was like uh close to

100,000.

I know. I know. I listen.

Um and >> he do with it? Basically, it's kind of like he was giving it to this um I'm doing air quotes um person who said that they were in parts of online bank that said that it was investing. Oh boy.

>> Um yeah, investing it to get a return.

How did you find out? Did he tell you or did you discover it? >> He came to me. No, he came to me and he told It took him uh you know, a little, but he came to me and he told me.

Um yeah.

Wow. When did he tell you?

months

It's a little while ago.

Mhm.

Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. Well, I don't know what a little while ago is. Yesterday or 6 months ago?

No, no, like uh uh a month ago. Okay. All right. And what is your household income? What do you make and what does he make?

Um we make over 100 um 100,000.

>> Mhm. Okay. What was the 401k? Did he

Take it all out of there? Did he cash it out? >> must have borrowed against it. Yeah.

He He borrowed against it.

>> Okay. And how did he take out a HELOC without you signing for it? It's on your personal residence.

Yeah. No, the HELOC I knew about. I just didn't know he was going to be borrowing from it. Like I Oh, you were You knew it was open and you had signed for it and then he just drew on it. Right. Exactly. At first

yeah, and at first cuz I know >> there's two problems.

Yeah. >> One is we're out a $100,000 and two is you no longer trust your husband cuz he lies. Yeah.

And yeah, I think that's the harder part. >> Oh, it is the harder part. You're right. Good a good a good observation.

Yeah. So, what are we doing to rebuild trust,

respect, to keep you from killing him in his sleep? I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. That was a joke. Don't kill him. No. And uh no, I'm serious. Are y'all sitting down with a marriage counselor?

Not not yet. It's It's so hard. >> I know. I know, and it's something that I But It's not going to get better. You're getting progressively pissed.

>> Yeah, what's the hold up? Yeah. I

He's not ready yet. He's not ready?

What are you saying?

He ought to be on his knees begging forgiveness. Not only did he lie, he was stupid with the money. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He got scammed by Nigerian prince. Come on.

I know. I I know. >> still walking around like this is okay?

>> Yeah, that's a problem. You didn't make him realize he needs to be sleeping with one eye open.

I'm trying to give a lot of grace.

>> No, you don't need to give grace till there's repentance. I hear no repentance.

Yeah. >> No grace, no repentance. No repentance, no grace. These go together. I was stupid. I will never lie to you again. I have screwed up beyond belief.

Please don't leave me, good woman.

These are the words that should have come out of his mouth as soon as he uttered the fact that he'd screwed up and gave $100,000 to the internet Nigerian prince. Oh my god.

Yeah, I know he like he has he has but he's he's sorry and and apologetic.

>> ready to make it right cuz those are just words. That's just lip service.

Right? Mhm. The work The actions are what make it better. Dr. Delony says behavior is a language.

So, I want to make it right and I want to figure out how to rebuild trust in this relationship. And so, we're going to sit down with a marriage counselor.

And this is you talking to him tonight and we're going to do this within the next 7 days or you're going to have another problem with me. I'm not going to be here.

Because I can't trust you.

You're a liar.

We have to start there and rebuild.

Yeah, it's tough, man.

Okay. Yeah.

So, I mean you you got to there there you have to go to ground on this and start from solid and and then you put systems and processes in place where you agree, okay? I'll give you an example.

I used to do lots and lots and lots of real estate deals that my wife never knew about, not because I was hiding them from her, but because she was playing Southern Bell and said, "Whatever you want to do, honey. You just do whatever you do down there at the office. That's okay." And I did and I screwed up Christmas.

Okay? I messed up everything. I lost my

butt.

And so one of the things I've learned from that is that I no longer make any major financial decisions without my sweet little Southern Bell passive-aggressive wife being involved in the decision.

Okay? And so we don't buy trucks, we don't buy

boats, we don't buy houses, we don't buy

commercial property to develop, which I bought one the other day, drove her down there in the truck, we sat on the dirt and looked at it. Do you think this is a good idea? She said, "Yes, this one's going to work." We don't make decisions unless we make them together. That's a new system that went in place after Dave was stupid.

You have a new system that goes in place. He don't make any more decisions without you knowing what the flip's going on and you being in agreement.

This is major.

This touches the same nerve in your relationship as if he'd had a sexual affair with another woman.

It's the same level of betrayal.

Because he lied about a hundred thousand

dollars and then on top of that he was stupid about it. >> Mhm. And then on top of that he acted like he's the one that has to be ready to fix it. >> I have to be ready. I'm not ready to go to a counselor. I got you're ready. Mhm.

Mhm. Come on, man.

Shh. Yeah, no, you need to you need to guys need to be in marriage counseling yesterday and they can guide you a good one can guide you through the process of transparency being in agreement before we move forward on anything ever again the rest of our lives. That was 30

almost 40 years ago that I went broke.

And I still to this day not because I'm in repentance about it but because it's a good way of living your life.

>> Absolutely. The right way to live my life is I have a better life when Sharon and I are aligned and in agreement on things. I make better quality decisions.

She makes better quality decisions. When we do these things together. We don't just come in unannounced. I just invested heavily in a Nigerian prince on the internet.

Yeah. >> You're killing me. You're just killing me. Cuz the the questions and you the questions you have to ask yourself if you're in her shoes is what if it if it hadn't gone wrong, when would he have told me? Or would it have just been this thing? And then you have to ask when somebody lies like that you have to ask yourself, well, what else are they lying about? Yeah, when it when it got to a million dollars, is that when he was going to leave? >> Right.

Yeah, it's tough. That's a that's tough.

I I don't envy that situation one bit, but she it's the ball's in her court now. >> Sharon, we're we're mad with you and for you uh because we want healing to happen there and the beginning of healing is repentance.

I'm sorry. I goofed up. What do we got to do to make this right? That's repentance. Repentance is I'm walking the wrong way.

I stop and I walk the other way. I do a 180. He's not doing that. I'm not ready. I got your ready.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, David and Penny are with us. Hey guys, how are you? We're doing pretty good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. Where do y'all live? So, we live about an hour north of

Salt Lake in a tiny little town called Hyrum, Utah. Oh, fine. Very cool.

>> Yeah. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off? $336,834.12.

Love it. How long did this take? 2 and 1/2 years. >> Whoa! And your range of income during that time? So, we started at 200,000 and by the end of it we were making 250.

>> Nice. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? So, I'm in the military, I'm in the Air Force, and she's working for a defense contractor. Wow. Well, thank you for your service, both of you. Incredible guys. So, I'm going to guess and say that kind of debt in that type of town in Utah might have been your house. No. No.

No. That was 13 years of bad choices.

>> Holy smokes. That's everything from school loans, credit cards, HVAC loans, cars, >> Wow. personal loans to pay off the credit cards, which were just more credit cards. >> Yep. This just got very interesting.

Wow.

It makes you kind of sick to >> 2 and 1/2 years ago that your life turned completely upside down or right side up? So, I was at work and I really

did not enjoy my job and I was listening

to just YouTube on my headphones wondering what in the world I'm going to do from a day-to-day basis and your show popped up and it became kind of like a therapeutic thing just to listen to people who had more credit card debt, who had it worse than us. I'm like, "Hey, yeah, we're not that bad. I mean, we have $86,000 >> Compared to Ramsey callers, that's not who you want to compare to. Exactly.

And then all of a sudden I started getting the debt-free people and I was like, "Wait. No, you can't live like this. Like, debt's normal. You need a credit score." And then I started, you know, actually listening.

was over it, it was just completely separate. It was a mess. And I was like, "Wait, I think we can actually do this." And I paid off my first credit card. And I was like, "Oh my god, I think we can do this." And I went and I got a side job as a janitor scrubbing toilets at a college on a weekend to start putting more money towards it. So, I was making $100,000 a year working with people and they're like, "You make how much?" I'm like, "Yeah, I know. Just just trust me.

We'll get there at the end of this." And then I showed it to him on one of my lunch breaks. I was like, "Hey, can we please just look at this together?" And showed him that there was a path forward out of this. Which was amazing cuz I didn't see any path forward. I think every night would be just up in the night, pacing, worrying, stressing, and >> Wow.

every there's no way to get out of it. And then she showed it to me.

We can do it." Wow.

>> And that day we canceled every single credit card Wow. >> without without hesitation. No, they all went that day. >> I think they were all done before lunch break. Yeah, how did you How did you feel right after?

Scared, because it's just a different way of being it, but you know what? In 2 and 1/2 years, we have not had to use any sort of that product, and it's been amazing. I've slept every night. You slept every like a baby, I bet.

>> Yep. Never once stressed again. So, same amount of debt until but going down.

Yep. But but you had a plan and you could see a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train. >> Oh, yeah. We hit it hard. We that next month, we started selling anything we can sell to sell it get rid of it. We don't need it. Yeah, we were in the So, we bought an older home, and we were in the middle of a bunch of home renovations, and those all came to a halt. So, one of my most excited things

is I'm going to get baseboards. Cuz we haven't had baseboards in years, but now we can afford it. >> Yes. This woman has a low bar for happiness. >> Yes, I baseboards.

And that was part of our what we did when we had no or when we were trying to get no debt is we just we could tear down everything in our house to get get everything ready to do projects. It was free. >> So, ah. We have at least half the house that's just bare walls.

>> Yeah. Ready ready to be remodeled. >> motivate you. Yeah.

That's very interesting.

So, cleaning toilets, that's probably one of the most extreme side jobs.

What else you got, David? Did you do anything crazy? Not as crazy as that. I took an assignment that put me away from everyone for a year, so we actually had to live in two separate two separate areas. She was living there in Utah. I was having to live in middle of Southern California doing a job that was going help help us continue making more money continue just bringing our life down to as low as we can and I didn't I didn't drive for a whole year.

I biked 14 miles back and forth to work every day. >> gosh. Just trying to make sure we can save as much money as we can. Yeah, cuz you guys did this fast. Yeah. I mean you lit into it. You you know, but here here's what's interesting. I want you guys that are watching this or listening to rewind it at some point to when they were talking about when they both sat down and looked at it and he said I saw a way forward. You if you watch you can

see their faces change just talking about that moment that hope came.

Hope is so powerful. It really is. One of my favorite quotes by you is hope deferred makes a heart sick and that was us. I mean we were living financially just separate.

We even though our bank accounts were together, we weren't talking about it. We didn't have goals. We didn't have dreams. It was just what can we do to get to the end of the next paycheck and now it's not like that anymore.

>> I saw a way forward. That's what that was your word, David, I believe. I saw a way forward. >> Yes.

And you know, you look at the math and you went for the first time I see a way out. Mhm. And that that just makes me cry. I mean that's so powerful because when you see that then you can run.

Yeah. >> Yeah. You can run. I mean I don't care how tired you are.

You can bike 14 miles. You can you can do anything. You can clean toilets. Oh wait a minute, you did.

Yeah, hello.

Mhm. You know, if you're just doing those things to exist, that's completely

different than seeing a way out. And I'm so proud of y'all. Well done. So who was

cheering you on? So that's the weird

part about this. I grew up extremely poor. Like seven, you know, people on

$10,000 or less a year. We were on welfare. So it's not like we ever had a

ton of money given to us and his grandma

actually cheers us on and she believes in us, and she's taken these principles to heart. But, outside of just having

like below earn below average earning family members, we didn't really have a ton. We just had each other to feed into this whole process. We learned to live life for ourselves. Yeah. To make something better for what for us, for our kids.

Yeah. Well, you did change your family tree, for sure. Oh, yeah.

>> Wow. I mean, you you knock out $337,000

in 2 and 1/2 years, folks. That's 150,

170 grand a year, only making 200 to 250. I mean, they're living on beans and freaking rice. I'm not eating rice anymore. We can't eat rice anymore. Never. I don't ever want to see no more rice no more.

Wow. That I you just had two really amazing transformations. The one is going from separate separate money and having things separate to just deciding one day, uh, we're going to put it together.

And then from you, your background, and just deciding, I don't want to I don't want to be like that. No. I I could not bring myself to live like that. I can't put my kids through that. I can't have them worrying what's going to happen when it comes time for mom and dad to retire. >> Mhm. So, yeah, it's just This is it.

Well, they've had a front row seat to watching heroes in action, though. Yeah.

I mean, they watch you do whatever it takes to win. You pay a price to win, and you win at it, and they watch it.

They You've changed their lives by the example you set, not to mention the mathematics that have going to be going to them now, cuz you're going to be multimillionaires now. Well, you know what's funny is, through this whole process, it was, "Hey, can we do something this weekend?" Yes, if it's free. So, we did some hikes, we went to the library a lot. So, now, if we go to buy something, my oldest one will be like, "Can we afford that? Do you have money for that?

Is that in the budget?" She'll call us out. Wow.

Well, again, and so, that's going to affect who she goes on a date with as to when she's choosing a husband someday.

She's going to go, "No, I don't think you're right. No, I'm not doing that." Yeah, the second they pull out a credit card, I hope she gets up and walks out the door.

Or you'll help him out. >> Or grab grab grab some scissors and get a get a get a cross out. I love it. You guys are great. I'm so proud of you.

Very, very well done. All right, David and Penny from Utah, $337,000

paid off in 2 and 1/2 years making 200 to 250. You guys are amazing. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3 2

1 WE'RE DEBT-FREE!

THIS IS HOW IT'S DONE, BOYS and girls.

Hope in action.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to

free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth.

And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 16:13-14.

Be on your guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be courageous. Be strong. Do

everything in love.

G. K. Chesterton said, "There is only one certainty in life and that is nothing is certain." Facts. Uh we'll go with that. Kyle is in uh Nebraska. Hey, Kyle, what's up?

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um So, with my current job, housing is provided in my salary. So, um in approximately, give or take, 8 to 10 years, I'll probably leave this job and take a job in which I will need to have my own home and purchase it. So, the question really is uh is there an advantage one way or the other to take out a a mortgage now and pay on

that during this time and pay the interest and possibly rent that house out uh while I'm here or just wait and stack

up cash and when I leave this place in 8

to 10 years, just use that as the down payment towards the home?

>> What do you do for a living? >> Um I'm a rancher. You're a rancher. Got you. Okay. Yep. So, Are you Are you single or married?

Nope, I'm married. Okay, and what does she do? >> Married and right now just Okay, right now, stay-at-home mom. She raised the kids, but in a couple months, she's going to take a full-time job, which is going to double basically double our annual take-home pay. My take-home pay right now is about 40,000. >> Okay. You're very wise to start planning this because a lot of people in your situation um when the uh housing arrangement ends with the job, they seem to be surprised.

And so, I don't know why, but you but they are. And so, you're very wise to look out there into the future and say, "I've got to get ready." Um so, there are two possible things that you can do.

One is, like you said, take a mortgage out and buy a home. It probably will not be the home you live in.

That that I would not recommend that. I would just say, "What is a good rental property, a good price range, a good location that's going to go up in value?" And we're going to do that with the idea of getting it paid off during

this 7-year period of time.

Mhm. By the way, the people following the Total Money Makeover baby steps and becoming baby steps millionaires eventually typically pay off their home in about 7 to 8 years.

And so, your schedule kind of fits with that. All right. So, we're going to put a renter in it. We're going to have a little bit of a mortgage, and we're going to pay it off as fast as we possibly can, 7 years or less. So, when

this happens, you sell that house, take the money from that, and buy a home that you live in. Okay?

Because you will have had the increase in value during that 7 years. You'll have to do some repairs to it when the renters move out, some repairs to it while the renters are there. But you'll have you know, have have the hassle of being a landlord and all that. Then that's part of the program. But you're you're investing money that's going up in value.

Okay? Yes. That's one way to do it.

Another way to do it is a lot simpler and will give you about the same result is sit down with a financial calculator with your SmartVestor Pro by finding them at RamseySolutions.com and say how much do I need to put in a good growth stock mutual fund per month

to have the equivalent of a house price 7 years from now.

And so I want $500,000 and how much does that mean I need to put away on a 7-year schedule? And basically you pay yourself a house payment into mutual funds and they will

be growing at, you know, the typical rate that the market grows around 11 or 12% during that time. So you're getting all that growth and

you're of course adding to it each month and you just have it in your budget a house payment. But it's you're paying yourself a house payment. So when you leave there, you look up, there's the half million dollars that you planned on or whatever the number is that you want to aim at. That feels like the simpler

path. Yeah, that's the easy one.

Sure. Okay.

Yep. So you either one of those will get you there, but you you are going to have to allocate time and effort and money to this starting today or you're going to come up short when you make this transition. Yeah.

Ashley's in Birmingham. Ashley, how are you?

Hi there. I'm doing all right. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up?

Well, actually it's I wanted a little bit of advice on because my husband and I we've been together for 21 years, married for 19. And we've been very lucky to stay,

you know, like, you know, out of debt since we had paid off our last home, but it got to where as the years went by, things got to where it was just practically unlivable. So around this time my Uncle Billy had passed away from COVID and I was like

his next of kin, but his you know, his I don't want to go into it, you know, too much, but just in short his girlfriend was, you know, stole a large portion of my inheritance and when all that was said and done and I was having to pay her a large sum of money, I only had, you know, a portion of the stuff that I've got to be able to >> Well, I'm sorry. How did you have to pay his girlfriend money? Right.

We went through a media What it is is she was claiming to be common law wife

and she was So, you got the money from the estate?

Uh well, >> they make you give it back?

Uh yeah, I had to we went through a mediation. She was wanting to keep the house and and pay me $50,000 and

and Yeah, but I mean you were living already, okay, and then he died and you got the money from the estate and she came at you and you ended up having to give some of that up in mediation.

Oh, yes. I gave her $74,000.

>> No, you gave her $74,000 that Uncle Billy had given you shortly before that at his death.

Yes. And so you Okay. Okay. She sold a Actually, she sold >> doesn't cause you to be in debt.

No, but see I but the thing is is

well, the reason why I'm kind of going into that is because I've got

we had to get a loan like to to renovate

his grandparents house because, you know, since we could no longer live in our old home because it was getting to the point where it was just unlivable and we were paying for it already been paid for, what happened was is my husband grandfather offered to let us have the house that him and his wife lived in when they were first married 69 years ago. And he was giving us the house you know, but we would have to renovate it. So, we had to take out a loan for like $40,000. Now, we're kind of suddenly like going into debt.

Now, I've got I've still got to pay What about the old house? What about the other house that you you and your husband Oh, that It like a mobile home. It wasn't a house. >> Understood.

It was just It's just in shambles. I mean, like the roofing is really bad.

It's just It's I mean, it's >> Okay. So, you were living in the mobile living in the mobile home, it turned into a wreck, you were given a home a family home, but it needed to be renovated. How much debt did you take out to renovate it? >> 40,000. 40,000 and we don't even know if that's going to be enough to do the work. We're trying to make sure >> What's your household income?

Well, uh only recently I got a better job cuz I was only making uh What's your household income?

Um well, now it was more so like 40

30,000 for him and last year I only made

like 14,000 and something.

>> So, you don't work much. Okay. Sounds like you need to be working more.

We need more income coming in this house. And then you guys are going to have to start happening two things.

Everything in this story happened to you. Yeah. >> You didn't happen to anything.

Dr. Stephen Covey says in the book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People that highly effective people, one of the seven habits is they are proactive. They happen to things instead of things happen to them. You act like all this happened to you. No, you chose to take a

family home that you did not have the money to repair and so you chose debt.

You could have chosen to dump the trashy trailer and rent an apartment and had no debt.

>> Mhm. You could have chosen that.

Uh I hope to God that Grandpa put his house in your name if you're putting $40,000 of your borrowed money into his house. That would be double stupid.

So, don't do that. Get it into your name and you guys are going to have to start happening two things. Now, you happen to this 40,000 by working like crazy people. Both of you work six jobs and live on beans and rice. Get this done and then pay cash for any more renovations above the 40,000 that you're doing. Don't put another $40,000 in debt on this house. You can't you when you only make 40,000 in the year. >> stop this.

And Uncle Billy story had nothing to do with any of this.

Except that you thought it was going to bail you out.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 132. Risk Is Always Part of the Equation When Taking On Debt | January 26, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:52 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

I'm George Kamel joined by best-selling author Jade Warshaw.

>> [music] >> If you know, you know. Give us a call at 888-825-5225

and we will do our best to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah is going to kick us off in Chicago. What's going on, Sarah?

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can Jade and I help?

>> Uh Uh so, I'm 30, my husband's 31, our household income is about 235.

Uh my parents had set up a 529 plan for

me when I was young, which I ended up using to pay for the majority of my undergrad and grad schooling.

Um I did take out a couple of federal loans just to cover the remainder of my grad school, which we still owe about 35,000 on. Uh recently, my parents asked me to pay them back roughly $114,000

for the money that I used from my 2529

plan. What? Come again now.

So, is that the money they put in or was that the balance of the account?

That was the balance of the account.

>> That's wild. >> this is in- They don't even understand math.

>> [clears throat] >> Like they may have put in 30 grand that grew to 114 and now they want you to pay the 114. The interest. They comp- They want you to cover the compound growth that cost them nothing. Was this ever the plan? Like had this ever been stated to you ever at any point that you would have to pay this back?

I don't remember it that way, but my dad

is a lawyer. So, naturally he had

created a promissory note. Could you

sign it? I signed it before Yeah, before I was I went to school. >> you read this note now as an adult?

Yes. And what does the fine print say?

It says that I promise to pay my parents

all sums paid to me for my secondary education including without limitation tuition, housing, and living expenses.

>> Yeah, but sums interest. Sums is the interesting part. All sums paid to you.

Yes.

This is So, I I just didn't understand that when I was signing it. I kind of

understood it more as like my um requirement to be able to get a >> him Let him take you to court. I think this would be a hilarious way to end the relationship with his daughter. What a way to go.

This is wild. >> what I'm worried about. What was your relationship like prior to this with your parents and or just dad?

Um pretty pretty good uh before this. So, it's kind of coming out of left field. >> Are they broke? >> Um they've been pretty Like what's the underlying reason why now you know, over

a decade later they're like, "Hey, remember that contract you signed when you were a child?" Yeah, have they brought it up at any other point other than now?

No, no, not really. And how long have you been out of school?

Um I graduated grad school about a year and a half ago. Okay, so okay. Um when you brought it up or have you brought it up?

Um I just basically asked them I told

them I wasn't aware it was a loan. They sent me the contract. They sent me the contract and then they said, "Let's talk about it." And so, we're going to talk about it tomorrow. Okay, okay, so you need prep for tomorrow's conversation.

Yeah, prep the conversation. I I'll tell you right now um if you I'm going to bel- I believe you

when you say I had no idea that that's what I was signing. If you know in your heart of hearts that you did not know what that was and that you had no idea that you were going to pay back this money. If you can say in your heart of hearts that that's the case, then I think that that you go in there and you say, "Hey guys, I had no idea. I was 18 years old.

I don't even remember this paper. I know that I'm looking at it that it's signed, but when I tell you I had no understanding that that's what this meant, I am telling you the truth. There is no part of me that understood that I would be paying back this money. If I had, I would not have signed this and I feel very blindsided by this and I don't have the money and I would like to ask if this can be forgiven because

everything that I do know about money tells me that a 529 is there for education. So, I am under the impression

that that's what this money is for. And I would just say it like that and see what they say.

Okay. Yeah, I I don't want to I don't want to come off like as ungrateful or entitled or like I'm trying to take advantage of them. I want to own up to my own debts, but like I definitely would have made different financial decisions. If I'm not going to I'm not saying this was the case, but I'm just telling you as a person who's listening on the other side, there was a imbalance of knowledge.

Here you have a grown man who you trust

who is a lawyer, who is giving you a paper to sign and you just go, "Okay." And I sign it.

That Do you see what I'm saying? You're not in an official office, you're not in a space where you're like, "Okay, I'm going to sign for my loan." And you don't even remember doing it. Who knows if he slid that to you one morning while you were eating a waffle, right? Just "Oh, yeah.

Go ahead and sign this for me real quick." Okay, like I don't know how it happened. All I'm seeing is I'm sensing that there is a balance of power here a balance of I'm going to say knowledge and power and it feels I'm not saying he was intending to, but it feels like he may have taken advantage of that whether intentionally or on accident and either way that's [snorts] what I would say is I just feel like I didn't know and I'm asking if there's a way to we've let it go for this long.

can my 529 just be for my education, which is what it's intended to be for?

Okay. And if they decide to not do that, should I Do you

think it would be reasonable to offer like some money or meet in the middle?

Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because at the end of the day >> what their contributions were.

What they actually put into the account.

I Did he actually say 114,000 must be repaid? In the last conversation you had?

>> a loan payment schedule.

Based on the final amount that was in that account cuz I don't think this would ever hold up in court that someone would have to repay compound growth. I think all sums repaid could be interpreted as the money that they advanced you essentially to be invested in this account.

Which would be a fraction of that 114.

Yes. Yeah, cuz it's been in there for I don't know, 15 years. >> way, we can all agree this relationship just turned into into a transaction and it's not going to be undone.

Like Thanksgiving is forever going to be different now and so that that part is on him. You can do what you can if you want to keep the relationship alive. You can never repay this and again, he can try to come after you and I don't know what if he has any legal standing to come after you from a dad to daughter, you know, 529 perspective, uh but I would I would honestly, if you want to, consult with your own attorney and say, "Hey, what is actually in this Does this actually hold up? Should I actually be worried?

What is actually my obligation based on what I signed?" I would at least get that clarity. And Sarah, here's another thing. Here's another take for you cuz there is a relationship here.

Forget about the money part. >> little I'm a little hurt by it and blindsided like you said. I kind of My whole life I was like, "Oh, my parents kind of I was really grateful for them setting me up." I'm in a really good financial spot

right now. I was going to get ready to pay off my You need You need to share that. I'm grateful and I didn't understand what I was signing.

And also tell him that you how you fear this could affect your relationship.

Just I think if you lead with your heart on this and how you're really feeling and the gratefulness, the blindsidedness, [music] how you're afraid for the future of the relationship. Keep it less about money.

I think you might have a better shot.

Goodness gracious. What are we doing, parents? This is insane.

>> [music]

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>> Guys, I got to let you in on a little secret. All right, we've been keeping this under wraps [music] for far too long and it's been hard to keep it within. And so, I'm going to let Jade give the people a clue. >> Here's the clue. Come sail away. Come sail away. Come sail away with me.

>> Boo-ya. I was going to do the harmony, but I think that's that's simply it was simply too good. >> for it. >> want I want to let you have the spotlight for once. Listen, guys, we sold out last time. People kept asking and so, we're doing it again. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back.

We got the captain's hat, the lei, which tells me we're going somewhere warm. So, join Dave, myself, Jade Warshaw, all the Ramsey personalities, Dr. John Delony, Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruze, 7 days in the Western Caribbean on the only cruise where we vacation alongside you. A.

And this is just Ramsey fans plus the Ramsey team. >> That's right. >> That's who's on this ship. And let me tell you, the last time we did it, I left just like I was on cloud nine. I was like, "Did that really happen?" >> It was really fun. >> It's a fever dream. So, you can get lunch with Dave, play pickleball with Ken, sing karaoke with Jade.

>> love boat. >> I didn't even make the cut. What do you do with George? I don't know.

We'll play backgammon and drink some espresso, I guess. >> have like a coffee with George. Like a nitro brew. >> to have a coffee hangout.

So, come join us and here's who this is for. This is not for everyone. This may not be for you in this season. This is for people who are on baby step four or higher.

So, if you have you've paid off the consumer debt, you have the emergency fund, you're investing for the future, this is your chance to mark the milestone and celebrate big. When is it happening, Jade? February Oh, gosh.

>> but I was formulating another thought.

I'm sorry. Go ahead and hit Go ahead and do it. March of 2027, which means you have plenty of time to budget for this trip. And you can get the cabin now.

>> If you're like right up on it, this should be your goal. Like I need to pay off I need to get my baby step three in place so that I can sign up. That's what I was thinking of when you asked me.

Yeah. So, if you will be in baby step four by the time the cruise is happening And here's the cool part. >> All you need to do right now is lock in your spot with a $600 deposit. And cabins are limited. This will sell out again. And here's the really cool part.

We want to really get people stoked on this. So, right now, you can save up to $300 this week only when you book by

February 1st. This is not a gimmick. The price will be going up after February 1st. So, book now, get 300 bucks off.

You can lock in your spot with a deposit. I can't wait. March 2027.

>> Wow. It's going to be It's going to be the cruise of the year. Sailing

takes me away.

Gosh, if I could sing like I would be singing the entire time on this show if I had that voice. >> doing a medley. Just sit right back and we'll tell it Gilligan's Island. I can go on the cruise thing forever. So many great cruise songs out there. >> There is. All right, Jade's going to make a playlist for us to listen to to get psyched for the cruise. In the meantime, here's where you go to learn more. There's a great trailer video.

There's all the info you need, all the different cabins you can book. Go to ramsaysolutions.com/events to learn more and lock in your spot or click the link in the show notes. I am I

am stoked. >> What was your favorite thing last time? My favorite moment from the Okay, John Delony and I had this hairbrained idea to do stand-up comedy. Oh, that's right.

I almost forgot. Yeah. >> 11:00 p.m. I went, "Who's even showing up for this at 11:00 p.m.?" Over 800 people. It was standing room only in this venue.

And that was I peaked early. That was the best stand-up of my life. The people were having a great time. John Delony did a killer set. And maybe we'll do it again. We'll see. >> you should. I think you should. It was awesome. How about you? Any favorite memories? >> think what stands out to me is Ken and I doing a dance battle. Oh, wow. I saw the video from that. >> he did I Let me say this. I didn't know that people were still doing the worm. Yeah.

Exactly. And I'm not going to tell I was going to say don't tell which one of us did it, but now you know >> [laughter] >> Oh. So fun. Truly. Truly. Come celebrate with us if you're baby step four or higher on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. ramsaysolutions.com/events.

Click the link in the show notes. Stoked. All right, JD is up next in Denver. JD, thanks for you know, allowing us to have a little fun there. What's your question today?

Of course. I've just been through some pretty tough financial times recently and I just don't even know where to start and how to get back up on my feet.

Man, what's what's the thing on your mind right now when it comes to hey, I don't know what to do next?

Well, the biggest pressing issue is I was in a car wreck and so, it does not sound like insurance is going to be too kind to me cuz I did not have full coverage. And so, just Oh, no. reliable transportation so that I can get back to working. Are you okay physically?

Uh I think so. Like walking away and

everything, but Is there a bill the last thing on my mind.

How recent was this?

Uh that was on Monday. Oh, wow. This just happened.

It hasn't even been a week.

>> I got laid off. So, you know, really good start to my week. >> I'm sorry. That is just >> a JD voodoo doll out there? Is someone like just really that you burned them?

Like this is a lot of bad luck in one week, man. I'm so sorry.

That's what I've been asking everyone. Like hey, did I do something really terrible that I realized in it? No, you didn't. When Murphy hits, he hits hard. And so, it feels like it's all coming at you at once. So, we need income and we need a vehicle.

Yes. In that order. Cuz it's hard to get a vehicle without the income. Do you have anything in savings?

Uh I've got about four or $706.

Okay. And are you single?

Uh yes. Do you have roommates or you living alone?

Well, I was living in my van cuz uh

The one that got totaled? Fairly Yeah, fairly similar thing happened in September and luckily my family was really kind to me and they said so long as I'm staying productive, I can stay at their place rent-free until I get back up on my feet. That was a lifesaver. So, are you still there now?

Yeah. Okay.

Um what type of work were you doing that you got laid off from?

So, I was working industrial and conveyor belt repair for like mines and power plants.

Okay. So, maintenance, repair.

Yeah, like field tech. >> were to look for a job in your area today, what kind of job would you be looking for?

Uh luckily, my experience is pretty vast

so I can go work for a lot of like material reprocessing sites, a lot of other industrial technician jobs. So, I'm not too stressed about finding a new job. >> Good. When they laid me off, they gave me a recommendation letter. It was just due to them doing layoffs and me being lower on the list due to seniority. Did they give you severance?

Uh they did not, but they gave me recommendation letters and a whole list of places that they're in good standing with that if I apply for like I could probably get a job on the spot.

>> Okay, great. So, the really it's just a matter of you doing your due diligence and locking in something as quickly as possible, but you and I both know there's just that lull of I get hired, I do all the training, I finally do work and then I finally get paid, right? The first paycheck is easily 6 weeks away at

the very least at the very least. So, the good news is you're you've got a place to stay, right? You've got a place to lay your head. The thing I'd be wondering about coming into this is because you mentioned your insurance you were under you know, under covered. I want to know is there a bill coming your way for damages?

Far it does not sound like it. It sounds like um they I'm so frustrated about the situation.

They found 50/50 fault even though it was not 50/50 fault. And um

but it sounds like the coverage that I did have should cover the other driver's damages fully. It's just I don't get anything for my damages cuz I only had liability. Okay. >> been in touch with the adjuster?

Uh I tried calling her this morning and we had a phone call, but it was not very productive. Okay. I would try to move this part along so at least we know we have some closure on what the next steps are. If you're going to get a check, if you're going to be in the red, if you're going to just be you know, break even and be flat on this.

But either way, we need transportation to get to that job that you will inevitably get.

No. I wish this had happened Well, I wish this didn't happen in the first place. But I wish this had happened like a year ago because my uh my family got rid of all their old vehicles. They had like five vehicles and traded them for just two new reliable vehicles. And of course, they use those to get to work every day.

Cool. JD, I'm also wondering you seemed like you really were questioning the 50/50 fault. If you really do feel like

I know I wasn't at fault on this, you might contact a lawyer and see what they say. Um I wouldn't spend a lot out of pocket [music] at this point, but just get somebody's opinion. Maybe there's a family member that knows someone that you can run this by. >> [music] >> And in the meantime, it's time for some side hustles. You are signing up for everything you can to get some income in the door to go buy a $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 car on Facebook Marketplace in the next few weeks. Good luck, man.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Michelle is up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. [music] Michelle, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be on the phone with you all. We're excited, too. How can we help?

Um so, really quick background. My husband and I bought our house in 2020.

He deployed last year and we went from

at that point 100,000 down to

I'll round up to 57,000.

And we also saved up 10,000 for a porch.

And then because of his deployment,

we're getting 15, 16,000 dollars back in

taxes, which I know that you all say like, you know, try to make it zero. And last year we

owed, so I think it's just because of the deployment. Mhm. Um

and I my husband and I are trying to decide are we allowed to get a driveway or should we keep paying off the house? So,

you want to take the 16,000 and put it towards paving your driveway?

Yes. Okay. Um no other debt?

No debt, just the mortgage.

>> Do you have a savings aside from the 16K? Do you have like 3 to 6 months of expenses?

Yeah, we have another 15,000 emergency fund. And then we have 10,000 saved up

for the porch. And now we're getting the 16,000, so last night I was like, that's that's almost 40,000 dollars.

Like we could you know, pay a lot on the house. Like if I whittle down the emergency fund

or or we could just have fun. What's going on with the driveway?

>> Uh it's just gravel and we would like concrete. >> Will it cost the whole 16,000 or what will it actually cost?

Um between 10 and 12. We're getting We're still getting quotes. >> Now, this is not like big chunks of money, but it's just things that I like to be in place before you do other fun

things. Or do you guys have life insurance?

Yes. Do you Are you investing 15% into

Yeah. Okay. So, you're doing You've done all the things.

You've literally You literally have extra money. Yes, why not?

>> allowed, Michelle. You've been blessed by the Ramsey gods. Congratulations, you get a new driveway.

That is what I needed. >> You don't need our permission, but I I understand.

Well, that's the thing. It's It's hard to let go of the gazelle intensity that you had and, you know, baby step two, paying off consumer debt. And when you move to four, five, six, we say you move from intensity to intentionality. And so, it's okay if the mortgage doesn't get get paid off in 5 years and instead it's five and a half. You are still doing better than 99.999% of America. And so, the the key is you have a goal and you're aiming toward it.

And so, how much longer will it take to pay off the house at this rate?

3 years. That's awesome. How old will you be then?

Uh I just turned 32, so

35? Do you know how weird that is to be 35 years old with a paid for house?

Amazing.

>> Very nice. You're doing great. There's a point, Michelle, and I I'll be honest, I I struggle with this from time to time, but especially when you're doing a plan that's very intense like the Ramsey plan and the way the first few steps are, you do have to be intentional about flipping the switch in your brain where you're not just building your life, you're actually living your life.

And I have had moments where I'm like, man, I I need to I need to actually enjoy the thing that I've created instead of just like, let me just put this other brick in place, you know? Like there's a point where you do have to stop and go, I'm just on the outside

of this thing creating it. I need to get on the inside and start enjoying it and start living it and start being a part of it and just, you know, have enjoy the

fruit of my labor a little bit. And I think that's where you're at and it's a great place to be. There's a time and a place for the intense and, you know, balls to the wall feeling and then there's a time to put your feet up and go, life is good. We We done good.

>> done. Let's get some concrete down.

Congrats, Michelle. And uh please tell your husband thank you for his sacrifice and service.

I will. Thank you. You guys are awesome.

Living the plan. That's what it looks like right there.

All right, Ryan is up next in Miami.

What's going on, Ryan? How can we help today?

Uh hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Sure. Um I have a quick question. I got a decision I'm trying to make and I can't decide what to do. Um I have some debt

that I want to pay off.

Um but I'm kind of a unique situation, so I I I don't know what to do. Um I have about 97,000 dollars in student loans

uh from law school.

Um shortly after I graduated, I fell

backwards into some money uh by sheer luck.

And I was told, you know, >> What spot did you fall? I just just out of curiosity, I'd like to visit that spot.

Um What do you What do you mean you fell backwards? Like was it an inheritance that you didn't know about?

I got a personal injury settlement of just short of a million dollars. Oh, wow. >> Are you okay? That's that's a serious payout. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm fine now. I got some

some uh some arthritis in my knee. I got some some injuries that are kind of unique for a young man to have, but, you know, all in all, I'm I'm I'm whole. Wow. I'm

I consider myself a very fortunate person. So, where's the Where's your quandary?

Um well, I didn't know what to do with the money. You see, so um the advice I got was to invest it, don't pay off the debt. And, you know, use the growth uh the return on the investment to pay off the debt over time. And um you know, I I I was in some kind of investment with a financial advisor. It didn't perform well. I didn't like it. I actually pulled the money out of that and ended up buying three single-family homes that I now lease to people.

So, my current plan has been uh to use the rental profit, you know, live off my base pay for my day job, uh use the rental profit to pay down the student loan debt. Um but uh I really hate

making all these payments and it's eating up all the money I make every month. Did you buy the You didn't buy the rentals in cash?

Uh I paid for them outright. Okay.

Yeah. Um three single-family homes outright. >> What are they worth?

Uh let's see. One One's about 300.

One is worth about 250.

Uh the other I would say high twos, low

threes, kind of that 290 range, probably. What do they cash flow totally

every month?

One rents for 1,800. One rents for 1,900. One rents for 2,000 a month.

Um after homeowner's insurance, property taxes, uh maintenance, repairs, um uh it's about 37, 38,000 a year.

Okay. And what's your base pay?

Or how much are you bringing in from your job? From my day job, my base pay is 70,000 a year. Um And before taxes, and then I just got a

a bonus, just like a one once-a-year bonus uh recently to uh 10,000 dollars.

Cool. >> if you like these properties, you paid for them in cash, if they're cash flowing, I would just use your income and the cash to pay down

this 97,000 dollar bill. I mean, if you wanted to sell one of them off, you could. But I have a feel I mean, it's just you, right? There's no family.

No wife? >> single guy. I'm 30 years old. I I live in an apartment.

Um yeah, no no wife and kids. Uh no not even a dog. What do you have in savings?

What's your cash cash position right now? Um let's see. In savings, I have about 93,000 in a savings account and about 20

in a checking account.

>> man. Just You could pay off your debt today. >> Instantly. Um my worry is uh I I would like to get into a primary residence and and own a house that I live in. Um so, that's another hesitation I have. >> two different things. So, >> a time and place for that, but it's once you're completely debt free and you have a fully funded emergency fund. And think about it. Once you don't have these student loans, it's all pure cash flow.

So, you can save up a down payment real quick. >> Mhm. And I might change my advice on that. Now that you throw the fact in that you want to get a personal residence. I might say yeah, take take

the cash that you have, pay off the student loans, and then I might sell one of these properties to free up some cash so you've got a you've re-upped your emergency fund and now you have cash to come in and buy

whatever house you get for you, that needs to be in cash. So maybe you're selling two of these properties to have what it is that you truly want and maybe that leaves you with one rental property cuz what I wouldn't want for you to do is to put a mortgage on your personal residence and now you've got rent people living and paid for houses and you're not even living in a paid for house, right? So maybe you sell off two of these to get what you want.

I'm not mad at that. >> it's all about your timeline and urgency. If you really want your own home, then I think you might go, "Hey, I'm going to sell one of these cuz I don't want to have to save up for the next three or four years." >> [music] >> That'll speed up the process. You have a lot of options. You've done a lot of things well, but you sort of became a landlord by default cuz some dude told you it would be a good idea. And so the

good news is you have options, my friend. >> [music]

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>> Kelsey is in Austin, Texas up next.

Kelsey, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um so I'm working the baby steps and I just need some advice. I am a real estate agent and so all of my income runs through my business account. I have an S corp and I

like to keep about three months of my payroll in there just like keep my anxiety levels at a lower level um just in case I come up as slow or a deal falls falls through.

Um I'm a single mom with two kids. So I guess I'm just wondering if that amount in my business account would be enough to consider as a starter emergency fund or if I should have that starter emergency fund in a separate account. So I like that you're doing that. The only change that I would make is this is not

an emergency fund. Um so whenever you're a person who's on irregular income, whether you're in real estate or it just anything that has those major opportunities for fluctuation, it is smart to keep a month's worth or you know, two months worth, whatever you feel like you absolutely need aside.

Mhm. Yeah, just in case something happens, a deal falls through or it gets pushed later and that way you can, you know, continue to live your life, but that's not your emergency fund because

that your emergency fund is there for the things that emergency funds are there for. Something that's completely unforeseen, something that's completely necessary, and something that can can is completely urgent, right? That's your roof. Right. You know, your car falls apart, that kind of thing. This is just part of your budget. This is just part of In many ways, it's just an extended cushion for you letting your budget

adjust to irregular income. So I would not to clarify, you can have this money here. Maybe you take half of it and you have, you know, a month and a half. I only you know how much your income truly fluctuates and what you actually need there, but maybe there's some of that that could also go towards building a dedicated emergency fund.

Okay, yeah, I could definitely at least start the $1,000 just to have that there and then put some towards that, especially once I have things like under contract, it feels a little safer, but How much debt do you have?

I have $46,000.

Yeah. What kind of debt is that?

So $22,000 from just putting my head in the sand after divorce.

And then $13,500 on a car and then my AC went out over

like Thanksgiving so I had to put that one on a loan so it's $10,000 on that.

Ouch. Okay. So do you have a business checking and a business savings account separate from your personal?

I have like I run the profit first model in my business account so I have a couple of accounts in there. So I stash a little bit away every month or every closing for profit and then I have a personal checking. Okay, good. So they are separate.

Yes. >> You're not doing this all from one bank account. No. Yeah, I finally got all that in order a couple years ago. And how much do you have in across your personal checking and savings that's not tied to your business?

Oh, sorry. Can you repeat that?

>> do you have across checking and saving in your personal life?

Oh, I am I could probably have Well, I would have $1,000 in savings and then personal is just I would say I pay myself every month so I pay about $6,000 in payroll every month. So the good news is once you start paying down So if you

do $6,000 in payroll, what do you have 18 stashed aside? Is that what you have in your business?

I like to stash 20 just because like with the payroll, there's taxes associated with it so it it works out to be about three months. Uh do you really feel like you need three? I feel like you could get I mean, only you know. I'm not trying to push you because I know that you this is your sole thing, but if you don't need three, I would knock it down a bit.

And then the other thing is the good news is once you start paying off this debt, the amount that that needs to be cuz that should be a bare bones budget, not like your bells and whistles budget. Um you'll be able to knock that down because once you pay off the 10 10K, that's a payment you don't need to make anymore out of your budgeted money. Once you pay off the car, that's a payment you won't need to make out of your budgeted money.

Does that make sense?

And that can then also go towards your debt. >> payments my debt payments are like 600 a month and then I think it's going to go up in June as long as I mean, I'm going to try and get the smallest credit card knocked out before, you know, before June. But then in June, the AC loan like it was 0% for the first few months and then it'll be 10% so it's going to go up a little bit.

>> your current plan to pay off all the debt? What's the timeline?

And how much can you throw at it a month?

I am throwing at it as much as I possibly can. I'm doing extra side hustles on the nights that I don't have the kids and like just trying to throw everything at it. I just have gotten a little I mean, this is my first month actually doing a budget and every dollar and like I thought I had it all planned out and then, you know, things happened that I didn't account for and so I was like, "Oh man, I kind of missed the mark this first month." Well, it takes it takes a couple of months. I mean, just to be honest, it takes three months and some to to really lock in.

The first month is experimental, truly. And then after that, you kind of start learning your behavior and you should be locked in in the next 90 60 to 90 days for sure. I I would have a game plan to go, "Hey, my goal is to put $2,000 a month toward the debt, minimums plus extra. That gets me out of debt in 23 months." Once you start doing that kind of math, that shows me that you're serious about getting out of debt cuz now you kind of know the benchmark.

matter what happens, this is what we're going to do." And then we'll shift everything else around it.

The nice thing about real estate is if I have like, you know, an extra closing, it can knock out a really big chunk of that. >> Yeah. When's your next commission check?

Do you know?

My next commission check, is that what you said? Yeah, when is that coming in? >> Uh Tuesday. Woohoo. How much is that going to be? Yeah.

Um it'll be $6,000. Okay.

>> Okay, good. So you have your month covered and Mhm. Okay, good. I I like

this. Okay, so it sounds like you've got it set up like you've got the the system set up. It's just now letting it start to work for you. Yeah. Hopefully you can start making progress soon and every dollar will definitely help. Jenny is in Miami up next. Jenny, what's going on?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um so I I'm I'm a little nervous.

My question is me and and my husband, we have about $500,000

saved. We've been saving for a home for quite some time. The issue is that we don't have much in retirement. I'm 40, he's 45. So I'm like

really debating here if we should really put as much toward a home or we should allocate some towards more towards a retirement account.

So that's kind of eating at me cuz we haven't bought yet. We we're looking at the moment, but that kind of worrying me it doesn't hit much, but me it does.

>> Are you guys investing at all right now?

Um honest honestly, no. Like I I have

because I I work for a hospital, so um I believe the 403b. So, there is money in there without me having put anything in there as of yet. >> Um, 18 18,000, I believe, or 19. For me,

and I think on his is maybe 3,000. He just started contributing to that.

>> Okay. What do you guys make a year?

Uh, well, this last year uh gross was

both of us at a little time was about on 148 uh thousand. Awesome. Okay, and what's this house going to cost?

We're trying to stick to 600, but it is

Miami. So, um it's it's definitely difficult, but we're trying to stick with that um even if it has to be some repairs or anything like that. So, we also have to consider those things as well.

>> Sure. And you're renting right now. What's your What's your rent cost?

>> Uh, 1,400. Okay. We've been lucky. Yeah, that's amazing with your income. That's fantastic. And um I'm thinking through this. You have 500,000 to put down. Does that include your emergency fund? Do you have a separate emergency fund from this 500?

>> everything. That's everything across the board. We wouldn't put all that in We We would definitely leave our emergency fund. We have it at 40 would be left for at minimum for the emergency fund.

>> we put 460 down on a $600,000 home, for

example, or $650,000. So, you have a 150 to $200,000 mortgage, which is very reasonable for Miami. And the good news is you're going to be able to pay that off fast. So, here's the Here's the deal with the should I put it toward retirement or not. I would suggest you guys start investing 15% of your $150,000 income today.

Okay. And then put as much down on that house as you can. And here's the simple reason. It reduces the amount of mortgage you need, which in turn reduces the mortgage payment, which then frees up way more money to pay down the house early, to live your life in the meantime.

And so, it's a good middle ground play right now because you guys are 40 and 45. And so, my guess is you end up paying this house off in the next 7 years max. Mhm. And the good news Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. If you keep doing what George said, as you're investing 15%.

That's calculator numbers. That's not an opinion. And so, that's the truth. The faster you get the house paid off, then you can max out investing. You'll be making more by then. I have no fear that you guys are going to be just fine if you become completely debt free, [music] and then you invest all of that margin you create.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Sarah is in Memphis up next. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hey. How can Jade and I help?

Hi. Um, my question is how should I be investing to build wealth, um but also to leave an abusive an emotionally abusive relationship? Oh, gosh. How long has this been going on?

This relationship has lasted going on 4 years. Are you safe right now?

Yeah, absolutely. It's no It's no physical abuse or anything like that, but it's just too toxic for me to stay.

I feel like I'm not evolving. >> guys living together?

Yes. Okay.

Okay. So, what's your timeline?

Um, on what? On exiting the premises.

Um, it's not like I would say I want to leave with definitely within the next like 6 months, 6 to 8 months.

Okay. Tell me what you think Tell me what's pre- precluding you from going now because when you say how can I build wealth, wealth is different than I need first and last month's rent to be able to get into my own apartment. >> Wealth is like a 10-20-year journey. And so, right now it's hey, what is the next step I need to take? What is the minimum amount I need to leave this situation?

We'll get to wealth later.

>> My dilemma right now is I have I I did have roughly like $10,000 saved. I recently paid off my car and got rid of absolutely all my debt.

I'm waiting on my title in the mail. I currently have about $8,000 left in my

account. Okay. Um, the reason I did it My lease was up The reason I moved in with him is because I was My income with at my job is quite low. I'm only making $17 an hour. So, I was a little bit worried about getting an apartment um just due to the requirements. >> Okay. Um, and so I'm trying to figure out if I should be like investing with the $8,000, like maybe buying a quadplex

and living in one. >> Okay.

Like that's what I'm trying to figure out. Let me say this back to you. Let me make say this back to you and make sure I've got it. So, you've got zero debt at this point. You've got $8,000 cash. $17

per hour. What's that equate to a month?

What do you bring in after taxes every month? Um, I think around like like $2,300.

Okay. So, no to your thing about

investing. Right now, cash is your friend. You need liquid money because you're trying to get a place. Um

I would And the $17 per hour, are you working 40 hours a week or are you part-time? How many hours do you do?

Um, yeah, I work a little under 40, maybe like 36 hours. Okay. And Okay.

What kind of work are you doing?

Um, medical assistant. Okay. So, if Are

you wanting to stay in that field?

No, I I'm currently looking for a job to expand my income right now to hopefully like build my savings account.

>> Well, yeah, I'm I'm saying are there, you know, the next step rung on the ladder in the medical world from assistant to XYZ? Can you move up in the

field and place that you're in right now? Or is this it?

No. I think that's it. This is it. I'm trying. Do you know what You know, I think a lot of your skills would transfer in the medical field to other assistant work cuz you could be an executive assistant and go make 70, 80 grand.

Okay. >> So, I don't want you to just limit yourself going well, this is the only thing I can do. You've got to think about what skills can transfer. And I'll I'm going to give you Our friend Ken Coleman has a great tool and resource uh called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and it comes with a Get Clear career assessment, and that will actually lay it all out for you. And you so, that will help you immensely. And then on top of that, do you have any a community right now? Friends, family nearby?

No, that's the problem. Um, I don't I don't have anyone to like you know, stay at their house for a set amount of time or help me out in this situation. So, this kind of like this was kind of my only option. Well, I'm wondering Can you get a roommate? >> That's what I'd say. I'd be looking at rent in your area and what you can and

think about it through the lens of a roommate. It's like, okay, who can I split this with? Because I think if you can get a roommate and and I'm not saying you live like that forever, but this is just for you to get out of a toxic environment to your to your own point. And to get someplace where it's a split cost. Um that's what I'd be looking for. That's the research I'd do tonight. Have you done that? Any research on apartments?

>> I've already I've already tried that option. Yes, I have been looking for apartments. Honestly, the the the roommate situation is probably is unrealistic in my case. I don't have anybody. I was looking at renting a room like the Airbnb or something like that.

>> much does that cost?

Um, I haven't gotten prices yet. I'm I was thinking about doing that as of today. That's probably like I maybe I should call first. >> I think that's a good That's a good starting point. Uh, see see what it'll cost you. I mean, cheap The cheaper, the better. Cheap and safe are the two things that you're looking for. And it's just you, right?

Yes. >> Okay. I know you don't have people close to you in your life, but I would jump on some local Facebook groups, and you can see their photo, their name, and say, "Hey, can we meet at this coffee shop?" And see if this is a good fit. So, I know it's a scary step, but it's a much safer step than than the situation you're in right now.

And the truth is you can't afford an apartment on your own. Mhm. Right.

But right now, 2,300 bucks, you can survive if you can split a two-bedroom at 6, 7, 800 bucks. Yeah. Right. And so,

I that would be my next step is roommate, followed by income. And do you have a separate bank account, separate from your partner?

Um, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, good. And they don't have access to it. They don't know your passwords. Do they Do you have like shared location services on on your phone? >> No. No, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty clear to exit if I can figure out what I can afford, but I just wanted clarity on if I should be focusing on investing and that should be my way to move out.

>> not invest a dime. So, in the steps you'd go, "Hey, I don't have any debt. Now I need a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses and then I can begin investing." But right now we need some stability and a foundation.

So, you're you're close. If you can get your income up and get in a safe situation with where you're staying and get the emergency fund, now we're cooking with gas. Now we have the recipe to build wealth cuz right now one emergency could tank you and now you have no money to build wealth with.

Okay. I appreciate that. You're You're doing all the right things. I would not wait 6 months, Sarah. I would be gone by this weekend. >> Yeah, once you find a Airbnb or once you find a roommate, in many ways I think your chances are better.

Um well, they're both the same thing. If you rent a room on an Airbnb, you have a roommate and this is somebody that you don't really know very well and you're up in their place, but the good the good news is you can if it doesn't work out, you could easily move to someplace else versus a roommate I guess you'd be locked in lease-wise. So, I kind of see what you're doing there.

Um I think for you the ultimate thing is the price on it because usually in order to make progress, we don't want rent to go over, you know, 25 30% of our of of our take-home pay. For you that's a very low number at 2300 a month. So, >> Talking like 600 bucks. Yeah, so you're Yeah, 600 700 bucks range. Luckily, you have no debt. Way to go on that. But um that's what I'd be looking for if at all possible.

Okay. Okay, got you. I understand. Thank you. You bet. >> You're welcome. I'm wishing you the best getting out of this situation. >> Mhm. Mhm. Jade, when it comes to abusive situations, it's so easy to tell yourself, "Well, it's not that bad and I

can just wait another 6 months. I'll be okay." You never know when people are going to shift into another gear. That's my thing. >> Yes. You need to get out and she's taking all the right steps on the financial side.

[music] She's got no debt. She has separate accounts from from this partner. She's got some money in the bank. Now is the time to go. Don't have some random arbitrary number. Once I have $12,000, then I'll feel comfortable. Mhm. That's you justifying why you're going to stay in the situation. You need to be [music] out.

And if you need to call a hotline, you need to get into a women's shelter, you do whatever you need to do to get [music] out of that toxic situation, Sarah. We're rooting for you.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Sarah is in Boise up next. Sarah, what's going on?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

>> Um So, I'm in crisis mode and my question

is, how do I manage my husband's business since he had a stroke about a month ago?

Oh my goodness.

What What is his current health?

Um physically, he's doing very well. Um

it was a large stroke and somehow physically he's good, but the area of his brain that was most affected affects his reading, writing, understanding of spoken language, and ability to speak accurately. Sarah, I'm so sorry. >> So, he's not available to consult with.

Yeah, I mean your life flipped upside down overnight.

Yeah. Wow.

So, what is the the pressing thing that like I got to figure this out tomorrow?

He is a business owner and um he has one

employee. He does my husband does pretty much everything for the business and his employee is not able to take over.

Um [clears throat] What kind of business is it? >> Essentially um it is a pilot school.

Okay. Is there a physical location? Like give me a picture of all the things tied to this business.

>> [snorts] >> So, he has several airplanes that are housed at a local airport

and he pays leases to have slots for those airplanes in hangars and and so he pays those leases

by check every month.

He has an employee um who is not getting paid because my husband's not here to run payroll.

Um Do you have any knowledge of all of that?

Is this something you could even step even if you wanted to, you had the capability? Is this something you could go, "All right, I can figure this out.

I can pay the bills. I can handle payroll." >> who to con- I know enough of who to contact to figure out what's due.

My problem is we don't have power of attorney or anything set up, so I don't have access to his business finances.

Mhm. What I do have is a wad of cash

that he keeps around and I can pay the leases by cash

until he gets out of Till you can do it through the business and so >> home and can do it through the business.

Yes. >> Wow, so he's still in the hospital?

Yes, and he'll be there for the next 1 to 3 months. So, I just need to keep it going for a few months until we see where things are going to land and he

has enough communication ability you know, he's been trying to communicate to me about his work.

Um But there's a lot of guessing what he's trying to say. He can't get into specifics.

Um so, I'm just trying to keep things going as he is recovering and hoping that we'll be able to talk about it in a few months. I just don't want everything to fall down. Yeah, is this your only source of income?

No, I make a good income and I can cover

our personal expenses. Good.

How much are you making?

>> 150,000.

Okay. Okay, so the biggest concern is there could be leases piling up that are past due and you wouldn't know you to rece- you wouldn't be receiving them cuz they might be in his email or something that's password protected, right? Correct. Um Okay and >> get a bill in the mail from a mechanic.

Okay. And so I could just call them, but

I can't pay it out of the business. I can either pay it by cash or out of our personal accounts. Is Do you guys have any money saved, you guys?

Aside from the business. >> We have about $2,000 left. I've used 3,000 of it on business expenses so far.

Okay. So, yeah, I would kind of start

This is very tough. You're not lying that this is this is a tough situation.

I would start by compiling as many folks as you can. I would sit down with the employee and I'd be like, "What do you know? Tell me anything you know. If there's any numbers for anybody that you have, please give them to me." And I would just start trying to You're almost a detective on this trying to figure out the mechanic. I'd contact them and say, "Do you know of any Tell me what you know." And just derive as much as you can. Um cuz you might

find Yeah, I know you said there's no power of attorney, but you might find out that maybe he was working with somebody that was just kind of helping him with some of the accounting or some of the numbers. Um Okay. And then the

next thing I'd be talking with the doctors and saying, "What's the timeline for us to understand his recovery? What can we expect in the next couple weeks regarding speech?

Those sorts of things." Um Yeah, you Do you have an estate planning attorney?

No. Okay, I would contact one today Mhm.

and say, "Hey, what are my options here?" Cuz one option if he can't understand or communicate decisions right now, then you likely need to go to court to request guardianship or a conservatorship.

And so the judge would have to grant you legal authority. >> And if he is able to, um you might have a shot here to get that power of attorney. So, the estate planning attorney can help with that step and that's a big step. That unlocks a whole lot for you to be able to manage and run this business and just keep it stable.

Uh as you know, just get the bills paid.

Is the employee Are they aware that hey, you you're not going to get a paycheck.

There's no money coming in to pay you with. Yes. Yes, I've let him know that I

don't have access to that and he said

that he will do everything that he can and continue working and that if he reaches a financial point that he can't continue, then he'll just get a second job. Okay. And keep doing his part of the business and logging his hours cuz he knows that we will make good on it.

I'd also look into since your husband's been paying him, if you know even what bank your husband's using, if you can get with an attorney and say, let's go to the bank, let them know what's going on, so we can get access into this account. I think there's those things that I would do to just I mean, obviously you're in a situation where this person cannot um verbalize what they need. So, working with a lawyer to get access is going to be what you're going to need to do. Are you a joint owner on anything?

>> that cash? If Okay, so let's pretend let's play that out. Let's pretend you get with a lawyer, you go down to the bank, they're like, oh, okay, we see what's happened.

Yes, you're obviously legally married, whatever whatever, you get into the accounts. Then I'd work with Then I'd be hiring somebody to say, help me understand what we have here. Is there money? Can you look back? Can we now look at a past tax return to find out kind of what the situation is with the business? Then from there you can decide

Is this something I can keep up? Is this something we maybe need to sell? By then you've heard from the doctors about recovery. So, there's part of this that's kind of like a puzzle that has to come together for you to decide, is this going to be something that you're going to keep or is this something that needs to be sold and maybe in the distant future he can reopen this again based on his knowledge, but not based on the previous business.

Okay. Yeah, man, I'm sorry that this is happening. This is This is really >> You got You got a new full-time job of just trying to track all these things down and it's not a fun thing to deal with. It's not something anyone could even plan for, Sarah. So, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I'm glad that you at least have an awesome income on your own and can cover all the bills. Do you have any margin each month just on your income alone?

Um I We are still paying off our personal

debts, so all of our margin is going into that. How much debt do you have between personal, the business, everything?

About I Well, I don't know about the business debts. I don't I don't know.

I don't think that there's any business debt, but as far as personal debt, it's There's a car loan for 34,000. Okay. And a credit card for 2,000. I would look into selling that vehicle if you can, you know, even make what it's what's worth. You know, if you can get 34 for it. Do you have another vehicle?

Uh yes, but it needs work. How much work? I don't know. I don't know anything about mechanics. Okay. But I'm just wondering if you can sell that >> my husband told me it was unsafe to drive. Okay.

Well, I would do some homework. You can jump on Kelley Blue Book website and find the private party value for that car. You'll just type in the VIN number for the vehicle and answer a few things.

It'll tell you what the car is worth.

And if you can sell that, you free up that car payment. So, what is that car payment every month?

500. So, you just get $500 of breathing room >> [music] >> and now we can if the repair is $1,000, great. Let's go ahead and do that. That is well worth it to free up $500 a month forever.

And so, there's all these pieces. You have a lot of variables that are in your control and that's all you can do right now is focus on what you can control and bring [music] in all the community you can find, bring in all the professionals and experts at your disposal to help you through this. You do not have to do this alone.

Thanks for the call, Sarah.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now, doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things

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>> [music]

>> Up next, we've [music] got Jennifer in Memphis. Jennifer, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

What's your question today?

My question is how best do I approach a

conversation with my husband who recently purchased a home as an investment without telling me.

Had no knowledge, didn't know it was a plan. Um It came up fast, I guess, and called me after he did it. And my question around

that is how best to approach that conversation. Do I approach it from a financial perspective of understanding

uh can we do this or more so in the fact

of the the personal side.

Um I'm struggling being a a numbers person focusing on the financials rather than the emotional side. So, that that's my question on how best to approach that.

Oh, when did this happen?

Yesterday. Oh.

Listen, let me just >> purchase to a new level. This is wild. I applaud you. The fact that you had enough self-control to be like, I'm not going to even mention this. I You like you've held this to a radio conversation I applaud you because I would have been like, what?

Um So, good job. That's great.

>> How did this all come about as far as him telling you? Like what what happened here? Well, so long story short, he is a He This is his goal. He wants He's good at it. The man has a 2% error rate in life, which frustrates me.

Um but he >> a 100% error rate with his marriage.

Yeah, well. How mad are you?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much does this just like hack you off?

You know, it's surprising to normally it would like I'd I'd lose it. Um the fury is not my normal fury. So, I'm trying to like listen and go, is this is this an opportunity to have a discussion cuz we do struggle with his impulse control um because he is a very He's a very smart person. The fact that you're not shocked by this tells me there's been a pattern of this your whole marriage.

This is the the biggest. Usually I'm involved, but we've done some pretty high-stakes investments that he he researched. He's smart. He's So, he's not impulsive, I wouldn't say. He Hold on. You're He has a high risk threshold and you've trusted him. >> He bought a house without telling you on a whim.

Well, it wasn't a whim. So, come to find out he's known about this. He's researched it. It was an auction.

Okay. How much? >> And It's $750,000.

Oh, man. >> Was it cash?

No. Um we we have very good net worth. What is

it?

My net worth? Yeah.

About two to 2.1 million. Is it all real

estate or is some of that Can you tell us what that is?

Yeah, majority real estate. We have very very good equity in our home.

Um And then uh we have a investment in some land that's in high uh very nice area. So, it's it's worth quite a bit. Um and then we've got um some other assets. So, our cars are paid off. >> Okay, good. Yeah, what what debt do you guys have?

Uh So, we So, when I say they're paid off, we do have a loan on one of them, so I shouldn't say that. We do have a loan on one of them, but it's going to be paid off here soon.

Um so, total debt is $790,000.

And that's including this 690,000.

Well, now it's double that cuz there's a $750,000 mortgage.

>> include the new one?

No. What's the mortgage on that?

The new one? Well, so we haven't closed on a loan yet.

But it was 750, right?

Yes. Okay.

Okay. So, the first question you asked was do I approach this from basically the dollars and cents side or the emotional relational side? I would go

the dollars and cents side is kind of like goes without saying, I think. I would go first for the emotional relational side since honestly, that's the most important problem at hand is

if if you're going to do these purchase, I understand what our history has been.

I am not The point is not to insult intelligence here. The point is to say that I'm part of this marriage, and when we make decisions like this and I'm not included, I feel like I'm not a verse a voice that matters. That's what you're telling me is my voice doesn't matter, [clears throat] and I need to know is that how you actually feel because that's the way you're acting. So, I would make make him understand that what what you're feeling is not

consistent what you think his intention towards you is.

Does that make sense? And that that's not going to work for you going forward.

So, I would get pretty strong on this because to my In my mind, and I'm not trying to project onto you, but in my mind if you can call me right after the deal, you could have called me right before the deal. Right? It's the same amount of time. Nobody, you know, and I understand it wasn't an auction.

>> Yeah, but he wouldn't get it.

Cuz he he did he texted me actually.

That's how he told me. Um I think he legitimately didn't think he'd get it. But um But this is not a Pokémon card on eBay that I bid on and went, "Oh my gosh, babe, I won." >> But the fact that he was even going to an auction means I have the intent to purchase something, and once the auction starts, here's the truth. Once the auction starts, sure, you could be like bidding and be like, "I don't have time to text, I'm bidding." But the When you knew, I think I'm going to go to an auction today, that's the time you email and go, "I'm thinking about going to an auction today.

Here's the property I'm thinking about bidding on. If we get it, here's the extent that I'm willing to bid to. What do you think about that?" Right? That's a conversation that should have had.

He knows that. Go ahead and remind him of it.

think, Jennifer, for you, you're going to have to decide how serious you're going to be about this because to George's point, seems like there's been a bit of a pattern. And it's not to say that he's not a smart guy or doesn't hasn't had great luck or great um

um outcomes with his knowledge. I'm not saying that, but it's not put you in a place of mattering, and you do matter, and that's the part that needs to be figured out here. Now we can go back, once that's deciphered, now we can go back and talk about, okay, keeping this house, what's it going to turn into, all that stuff, but first and foremost, how much do you matter in this relationship when it comes to our money?

I think that's where we struggled our whole lives is I'm risk averse, and he's obviously risk taker, and

we've always struggled with the fact that he he does do his research. He does He's willing to >> That's not But, Jennifer, that's not the problem. You being risk averse and hit That's not the problem. That's just you guys having personalities. The problem is your vote weighing and mattering when

the decision when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road in a decision.

That's the piece. So, don't Your your

challenge is, because I can Like I said, you're very very patient, but your challenge is going to be when you have this conversation not to get bogged down in those minutia, right? Cuz that doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how smart he is, it doesn't matter how risk averse you are. None of that matters. What matters is, do I matter?

Does my opinion matter? Because so far it has not, and that is not okay with me going forward. And if this continues to go forward, here's what that's going to look like on my end. That's what you have to decide, and that's a firm conversation.

Mhm. So, that's what That's That's my advice to you. Um and again, I can't say it enough, has nothing to do with smarts or not smarts.

I don't care if he won the lottery.

This is still financial infidelity.

I mean, think about if this was a person. You went, "Well, he didn't cheat on me impulsively. He's been talking to this girl for months." That doesn't make it better, does it?

No. And so, if he knew he was looking at this house, he should have said, "Hey, you know, I've been looking at this property. I think it could be a really great investment. Here's what I'm thinking." You guys aren't communicating at all when it comes to money. I mean, my wife and I don't make purchases over $500 without talking about it first, let alone 750,000.

Mhm.

Yeah, and I don't I don't make anything without asking.

Um I think again, this is the first time he's done it without telling me. It's always been he's brought it to me, and then I tell him no or >> Which is why this is Which is why you got to put the line in the sand on this because what you don't want is for this to be seen as, "Oh, that wasn't that bad. I could maybe do this again." This is you putting your stake in putting your line in the sand. Hey, do you earn Are you Are you a contributor of money in the house?

Okay.

I think that's the hard part. We have substantial annual income.

And he, you know, he he uses the debt

obviously to build wealth, and he has he's built >> Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine. You Fine, but you need to make sure he understands, and you need to understand, too, this is not a money conversation. Has zero to do with prior success. You cannot let the conversation go in that direction. It's about respect [music] on your name.

That's it.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Well, Jade, we just took a call where the husband bought a house without telling his >> [music] >> wife. >> Unreal. Pretty wild. And uh you know, buying or selling your home is a big deal. It's the biggest financial decision you'll ever make. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what is actually happening with the housing market. So, we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. We've seen mortgage rates dip, which is nice.

We 30-year for the first time in a while under 6%.

>> And 15 years been dipping down along with it, which is nice. So, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's get to the phones. John joins us in Portland up next. John, welcome to the show.

Good afternoon, gentlemen, and Miss Jade

Jade there. Thanks for including me in that. I was concerned.

>> [laughter] >> I was happy to be called gentlemen. >> you're a hoot on the show. I enjoy listening to you guys almost every day.

Oh, thank you.

How can we help?

So, um I'm looking to get engaged with

this young lady that I've been dating about 9 months, and um I'm just getting

into figuring out her financial situation, and it's really a freaking mess to be a understatement here.

Oh, boy. >> Um So, she's co-living with um her mother,

her sister that is married, her other sister that is married, um and of course herself, and they've all co-signed uh signatures and such and incomes to be able to afford and purchase a home together. Oh, boy. Six

of them? And so, they're all on the deed, they're all on the on the mortgage. Right. They're all in this mortgage, and then there's a food truck business that they run as a family business, and there's other incomes, and then there's private and business credit cards all

mixed together, and my girlfriend's

um credit score is tied to all of these as a co-signer, and two auto loans that she's also tied to. Oh, boy. Okay. I'm

going, "Okay, so if in six you know, 6

months if I was hoping for a spring or summer wedding here, that like I cannot

join finances with over $100,000 of small debts and a house that I have zero

equity or input in, and I don't think she has equity in any of those things. She's been coached into signing as a co-signer

all of those things, but does not have equity in any of those things." Uh How much of this does she understand? It sounds like you are well-versed in the world of finance, and I'm worried she just is like, "Oh, I didn't understand all this. I just signed cuz it was family, and I thought it'd all work out." I I don't know if she understood the weight of when you sign a co-sign a loan

like that, how much are you on the line for. I don't think she really understood that. >> understand that if they all default, that it all reflects on her, and that she could be the one that's responsible for all of it.

Correct. So, there's another curveball here. One of the sisters has cancer, and so her and her husband aren't really working. And so, they're kind of like soaking up some out of the household. They kind of pool their money together in the house.

And um her mother wants to go back to Mexico.

So, she's Mexican, but her You don't I don't think debt companies can um chase you and collectors can chase you once you're on the other side of the border, kind of an idea from my understanding. So, her mother is, you know, obviously participating created some of this debt.

>> Mhm. And I think that they're all going, "Oh, well, now she's found this nice guy, in other words, me.

Okay.

Um let's not go What do I do with this?

I I Here Let's Let me go back to what I think is the most important things first cuz there's a lot here. I'll try to tackle some of them. I know George will tackle some of them. So, first things first is the conversation where you're kind of getting her to understand your

um fears around this. And then, and only

then, if she's in a space to move forward, here's here's what I would say is the ultimate goal. The goal is to find out first, hey, this mortgage situation, who can buy you out? Like, who can buy out your portion so that you can get your piece, and can we get folks

to refi and get you out of this?

Cuz that's the only way is to refi this

mortgage so she's not on it. So, that must happen. >> Right. It must happen. Same thing with these auto loans.

This is it's just so serious. So, that conversation of her understanding that that's why I say that's like paramount to this entire thing working because after that, she's going to have to have some serious conversations of, I need to refi the mortgage, I need to refi these auto loans, and I need to

find out how to get my name off of these credit cards because if I were in your shoes, I don't think I would move forward with marrying her until that's done because you are going to get This is a horrible way to start off your marriage. Period. It's just going to cause problems. >> Is she willing to essentially be exiled by her family?

Uh you know >> Does she want out of this, or is she like, no, everything's great. I I like everything that we're doing right now.

She she honestly has con- confided me that she's very stressed about the financial situation because she's I I explained to her a lot more of the depth of like, you don't have equity to play with as a bargaining chip.

>> It's not even about equity. >> You're it's not even about the equity. I think that that's burying the lead a little bit. The biggest The thing that you guys have to be most concerned about is the risk on her life when these people stop

being interested in paying, especially because there's so many involved, it's very easy for Bob to go, you know what, I'm not working in the season. It's okay, five other people are >> mom goes to Mexico, and goes, good luck, guys. Now what? Now she's on the hook for everything, and collectors are coming after her and suing her. And that's what she's up against right now. >> the thing you need to be laser beam focused on is the risk. Forget equity,

forget any of that other stuff. It is risk, risk, risk on her head right now.

And so, to to to start to reduce some of that risk, I looked it was like, yo, you guys need to sell these cars cuz one of their their cheapest car, they are at 18% interest rate on it. And so, I was like, you guys cannot be paying $750 a month on a 2018 Nissan Pathfinder.

>> Yes, you're right. They need to sell it. >> under water. They're under water by 5K on that one. They got offered eight for it. I was like, sell it, but they don't have any money to pay off the loan so the dealership will pay for it.

>> whoever's Whoever it is that's driving the car needs to see if they can get a

loan for the difference. And then you need to be selling it private party. The dealership's always going to give you a super lowball offer.

Correct. Yeah, they have to have their margins. >> might actually be able to sell it for what they owe on it if they sold it private party instead of going to the dealership. The people who screwed them over to begin with. >> I think I think they owe just about even with KBB on the vehicle. Um Do they need

it to get from A to B?

No, so I'm a mechanic for a living. I was like, look, I'll find you a Toyota Camry that needs a water pump and a timing belt for 1,500 bucks, put $80 of parts in it and ship it, and you guys can have reliable reliable transportation in a week.

>> it the sister's?

No, this is what my girlfriend drives, and her mother, and whoever else needs the car. So, okay, so it's your For all intents and purposes, it's your girlfriend's car. Correct. So, what you need to do is

you need to go with your girlfriend and say, hey, we're getting a loan once we find out KBB if there's a difference, we're getting a loan for the difference, and then we're going to sell this, and you're going to get your mom and your sister to agree to that immediately. Is that the case for both cars, by the way?

Yeah, so there's another There's a 2024 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie that they have.

They're paying about a thousand dollars a month for on the payment, and they owe 38 five on it, and it's They got a praise the dealership last week for 34.

>> And who's the main driver?

Um that's one of the one her brother-in-law drives that mostly. And so, and he's currently not working, so I don't know how he gets the privilege to be driving the vehicle. >> in to cover all of these payments?

Correct. They kind of just pull all their money in a pot and pay bills out of that, and some months they have enough for all the stuff. Okay. Okay.

I'm going to be I'm going to be straight up with you. >> codependence happening here. >> Well, well, let >> Yes, yes, but I think what you more so

Like, we can look at it on the outside and say toxic codependency, but it sounds like it's a it could be a cultural thing of this is just how we

survive, and this is what we're used to.

Your work is cut out for you, and I don't know if you're going to be able to win this battle, my friend. This is deep, deep, deep, deep, deep.

>> going to be a part-time job for you just to help her. She's going to need to pull her credit report and go line by line and go, how do we get you off of this? How do we get [music] you off of this? Explore all the options, and then she's going to have to fight with the family and be excommunicated >> [music] >> for ditching them in their time of need.

>> And I don't know if you want to be the guy who's responsible for that.

>> [snorts]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel, joined by Jade Warshaw.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jake joins us next in Madison, Wisconsin. Jake, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely.

What's going on?

So, I am in the process of building myself a house, um and looking for some guidance on if I should take the 15-year mortgage option where the payment is about 31%

of my monthly pay, or should I take some of my 6-month

um emergency fund and try to get that down to like 29%, or is there some other route I should try to pursue?

Cool. What's the house going to cost?

Uh total what we're tracking at right now is about 380,000 all said and done. Okay. And how much are you going to put down?

So, I've already put about 180,000 down of my own money to get the project started before I even went to the bank.

How much more do you need to get it percentage-wise to where you want it to be?

Uh I believe it's close to 20,000,

which I do have. Uh that would just be most of, like I said, a 6-month It would be most of it. What would it take your emergency fund down to as far as months?

Uh about two. Okay.

The most I would personally be comfortable with is 3 months. If you're like, hey, I'm going to take 3 months of the fund out, leaving 3 months in there, and then I'll restock it once we move in, you're going to be okay. And so, that's not on fire. And if it's 29%, nothing is on fire cuz the truth is

your income will go up over time.

Sure. >> Right? And so, that percentage will go down.

Yep. The other thing is, when we talk about the 25% parameter, which for everyone listening, we tell people, hey, if you're going to buy a house, do it once you're out of debt with an emergency fund, you've got a solid down payment, and make sure that you get a 15-year fixed-rate conventional loan where the payment is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. But when we say that, you got to remember this is after tax, but before other deductions.

So, we're not going to include the, you know, 15% in retirement. We're not going to include the health care premiums.

It's just after tax. So, have you done it based on that math?

Uh I would say not entirely.

[clears throat] Um I was doing it more so including like the 15% that I would have in retirement and all that. >> Okay, cuz then my guess is once you redo the math, you'll go, oh, it's actually like 20% of my after-tax income, but before the deductions.

Yep. Okay. That makes sense. So, you're in great shape, man. I'm proud of you. How did you do this?

Um so, I had a house on 30 acres previously that I sold for uh quite a bit more than I owed on it. Um I was able to take those proceeds, uh pay off my car, and then uh my parents were kind enough to let me and my girlfriend live in their basement while we're building this house.

Uh and basically every month that we've been there, I've been able to set aside quite a bit of uh cash to kind of build up my savings >> And you're completely debt-free?

Yes. Fantastic.

And green lights over here. Congrats on the new house. I hope the build goes smoothly. Hope it's on time. Is it on track so far? Uh yeah, we're about 3 months ahead of schedule. Um Wow. We're some Technically, I'm a general contractor. My dad is helping me with that. He's like a inspector, so he's got all the certifications for that. Um so, been able to do a lot of it myself and kind of >> savings all over the place here. Yeah.

Yep, cost and time savings. Time savings has been the big one, for sure. Yeah.

Well, congrats, man. Super excited for >> for having me. Best of luck with with the big move and finishing the construction.

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate the insight and the the discussion. Happy to do it. That's That's what you want. That's a good best-case scenario right there.

>> Good for him. I'm happy for him. If you're arguing about is it 28% or 25%, it's the right argument. >> Yeah. Versus most people just go, well, we just needed a house, and it's 54% of our take-home pay. We're like, oh my goodness. >> [laughter] >> This is a hard This is a hard one to crack. All right. Nora is in Nashville up next, right down the road. What's going on, Nora?

Hi, George and Jade. Um I am just calling because Um sorry, of

course somebody tries to call me as soon as I'm on this call. >> Ah, who could [laughter] be more important than us? Put him to voicemail.

>> Nobody. Nobody is more important unless it's my husband or my kids. >> Truth. Yeah, you're right. There's a lot of people ahead of us.

So, I came to the event and actually, Jade, you gave me your book.

>> Nice. >> one who asked the questions and I gave it to you from the stage? It's from the stage and I gave you a hug. Yep.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it lit a fire and the

next Tuesday we joined Financial Peace University. >> Yay!

So, um so we're trying to get our emergency fund together and like things were so tight, but I just started selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace

and so since [laughter] since the 14th I've gotten $230.52

together. >> Way to go. Way to go.

And I'm still selling stuff. Someone's coming at like 4:00 to get something else. So >> to take that call.

>> So, once I get that thousand dollars, I was looking at the Every Dollar app and it looks like I should pay my IRS debts

first before I attack my smallest debt.

>> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay. How much is the IRS debt?

It's $2,266.

Mhm. Good. Yeah, that that's one debt

that always jumps to the top of the list no matter what because it's just such a volatile situation to be in and so we want to get you out of that as soon as possible. So, yeah, that or if you had uh you know, back rent or back mortgage, those things would jump to the top of the list. How much other debt do you have?

Um so, we have about 62,500

and um yeah, that's it.

Great. So, what can we help you with?

What can we help you with? Was it just the IRS thing or was there something else? Well, I mean, I I mean, I make

good money, pretty good money. Like my husband and I together make about 117

and um but I've just been really irresponsible like I said at the event and um it's just trying to like get my behavior on track.

>> Mhm. Um I've really been >> traction?

I have. Like I haven't used my credit cards. I haven't been on like Klarna or PayPal pay in full. >> the credit cards?

Cut all of them up. >> Great. Great. Now, do you want to know what I would help with if I were in your shoes? If I had a problem with impulse spending, things like buy now, pay later, Klarna, I would do a couple of things. A, I would start with my phone

because that's usually the thing that speaks to us the most. Obviously, unsubscribe to all the ads. I would take Amazon off my phone. I would take those apps anything that's an app, I would take it off my phone that has the ability to purchase things with just so it's not talking to me all day long, you know? Okay. And I would really >> like unsubscribing to like the emails that get sent, you know, like from all the places that I've bought from before.

I'm like, okay, let's just unsubscribe from all this stuff. It's you get addictive when you start to go, look how many inputs are just trying to get my money from me. It's pretty wild.

>> Yeah. And I'd set up notifications that notify my spouse when money is spent both ways. So, you get the little text when a transaction comes out of the bank and so does he. Just an added layer of accountability and transparency because

it's easy to go through the drive-thru when you're thinking, oh, I can just go through. I'll get these fries. So-and-so probably won't see it. I can get away with it. But if you know their phone is going to light up with the you know, notification, $5.95 spent at Wendy's, then you're less likely to do it.

>> Oh, that's my favorite. I get all the transactions texted to me. Yeah. I'm always texting my wife. >> What's this? >> What was this about? Or usually it's more like, what did you get at McDonald's? >> [laughter] >> That Oh, yeah. Have you had your Looks like you had your break today. >> for me? That's always Do you have enough for the whole class? That becomes a fun discussion once you're not broke and out of debt. So, we're rooting for you, Nora. Thank you so much.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by W Y R E F I. You don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. W Y R E F I helps borrowers take back control with affordable refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at wyrefi.com/ramsey.

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Not available in all states. >> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Vincent Rhode Island. Uh he says, my wife and I are buying a used car, but instead of paying cash, we're thinking of leveraging the debt considering we can get a low interest rate. We'd invest

the 30,000 into Vanguard funds and contribute more each year to fund a family cabin down payment. We're in our 30s, have over 200,000 in 401(k)s, no

other debt, have an emergency fund in place, and a steady income. Does this sound like a good plan?

No. >> No. Um here's my thing. You're doing so much right. I think it's just a patience a patience issue because you've done like you said, there's no debt, you've got the 401(k) set up and you know, you've got the emergency fund squared away. Why why divert? Like why

abort the plan and go into this lifestyle of debt for a vehicle that you can pay cash for? Pay cash for the vehicle that you want and there's and then from there on, yes, go ahead and go

ahead and invest for this cabin down payment. Why can you not do both and do both of them the right way is what I would say. George, >> Yeah, I'm like, it's just so I'm so confused. I'm like, what you would invest the 30k that you would have spent on the used car, but then you've got a car payment.

So, now your income's locked up there. Just invest what you would have paid for that car payment and pay in cash. >> Easy button.

>> a cheaper car. You can do both of these things. You could just need to do them both the right way. And you can do them both almost simultaneously. You just need to do them both the right way.

>> Yeah. You guys are in baby step four, so you're investing 15% of your income and buy the car in cash and then any extra money you can save up or even invest for that cabin down the road.

It can all be done. Just do it in the right order. Don't go backwards. Don't go backwards, please. Thanks for the question. David is in Los Angeles up next. David, welcome to the show.

David, you with us? Oh, yep. I'm here. Hey, how are y'all doing today? Doing great.

So, my wife and I were going to like plan to get pregnant later this year and when we do eventually have a baby, I'm going to need a new car. Right now, mine only has two seats and I'm probably going to need something with at least four. Um I was looking at getting a UV cuz the

prices on them are pretty attractive at least compared to a normal gas car.

But the one thing that has me worried about them is the amount of depreciation that they get hit with every year.

Um it seems like they depreciate way quicker than a gas car and I just wanted to know, is that something that I should be factoring into like my car buying decision or should I just completely ignore the depreciation and go for whatever car fits me? Are you paying cash? Yes, I would pay cash. Yeah. Okay.

What's this car going to cost? What what exact car are you looking at? Cuz I think the depreciation, it really depends on the make, the model. Now, EVs are obviously it's think about iPhones.

How many people are in the market for an iPhone 8?

Yeah, probably not very many. >> right? And so, the price is going to be a lot lower because everyone wants the latest and greatest technology. And so, EVs can have a steeper depreciation especially when, you know, Elon's changing the price and the model every day and you're like, oh man, I just paid 30 grand for it and it's only worth 20 now.

So, that is something to think about when it comes to resale value.

Okay. Yeah, I do typically drive my cars for a while. Um it's just like my car right now has barely depreciated at all. I got it pre-COVID pandemic pricing spree. So,

um you know, that that's kind of working in my favor right now. But being able to get out of it whenever I want to just seems like a really nice option to have and I feel like I'd be a little more trapped with an EV if I did go that route. >> What are you looking to spend?

Um I'm looking around 25, 30,000 dollars to spend on a used one. Okay. And what uh can you give you like a make and model you're looking at?

Sure. Yeah, I'm I'm still looking around a little bit right now, but right now my front runner is probably one of the Hyundai Ioniq 5s.

They seem to be some of the best deals out there, at least for the used ones in my opinion.

Okay, and have you looked at the depreciation on them?

I have, yes. So, currently they're like, you know, about half the price that they were new and I've done some research online and they're still forecasted to lose another half in the next like 5 or so years. Yeah. That tracks. Have you looked at uh Tesla as well to compare the depreciation?

I have. Um I'm I'm not a huge fan of the the Teslas just with everything buried in the screens and stuff like that. So, I was trying to go for a more traditional car feel. Some analog controls and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've experienced this because I've purchased uh EVs now. My last two have been EVs and looking at the depreciation really just hurts your soul.

And then I have to remind myself, who cares? Do I like the vehicle? It's paid in cash, so I can never be underwater on it. And yes, I'll take a lick when I go to sell it and go, "Oh my gosh, I paid so much more for that." But that's the nature of cars.

They are just boxes that exist outside and go down in value. And you'll find that with any car, but EVs can, depending on the make and model, go down in value a little faster because people want the latest and greatest. And especially if it's it hasn't kept up with technology. And so, that's the key.

Okay. So, yeah, don't treat it as like I'll save so much money on gas. Treat it more as like this is the kind of car that I enjoy driving and I should go with this. >> never use like the [snorts] math to justify it.

I just go, "I enjoy it. I like not having to stop by a gas station." That's just me. >> Yeah, that does seem like a huge perk in my opinion. That that really seems nice to be able to come down to your car every morning and have it have a full full charge and full tank to go wherever you need to.

>> I still have to go to the gas station to fill my wife's car because I'm a I'm a gentleman and a scholar. [laughter] And I get brownie points. >> in the same boat, yeah. She's got a gas car that I would probably still need to fill up every now and then.

Yeah, that was the that was the compromise. She was like, "I don't feel good about having all EVs like just in case you want to have the ice car, but I think you guys are you're on the right track, man. The fact that you're paying cash, you guys are debt free, you're investing.

Perfect, yeah. Thank you so much.

>> you the best starting a family, man.

That's that's a big step. Austin is in Salt Lake City up next. What's going on, Austin?

Hey guys. [clears throat] I got hopefully two questions if you got time. I'll make them quick, but if not, my main one my wife and I are also preparing to have a baby this year. Woohoo. And currently maxing out Yeah, maxing out our HSA. I'm

just wondering should we use the HSA to pay for health care expenses like that or if we can, should we cash flow them and let that HSA continue to stay invested and build and do the whole save the receipts and do them down the line type of a deal?

I'll I'll say this. >> take on that? That's what Dave Ramsey does. Dave Ramsey has never touched his HSA.

He maxes it out every year and he cash flows it because he can. And so, if that is you and you're in the you're in the case to do that where you go, "Hey, we can cash flow it. It's not going to, you know, bust our budget to do that. We can max it out." Then yes, keeping the majority of invested is always going to be beneficial.

And like you said, a lot of people don't realize, hang on to the receipts and you can reimburse it later on and that money will show up in your bank account. So, it's pretty cool how that works. >> Yeah, I agree. Jade may have different thoughts, but >> Nope, that's what we did.

Okay, so cool. That's kind of what I was thinking, but I just wanted to take your guys' opinion on that. And then if you got time for another quick one, I just got married over the summer.

So, we've been married about 7 months now. Um and we've combined our finances, combined our lives, everything.

Um I already had a house and our vehicles before we went into the marriage. I'm just wondering should I is there a way or do I need to get her on the title of the house or on the mortgage or like on the the title for the cars or does that really matter?

It's not really necessary. Technically, it's going to roll over to her anyway as your spouse if something were to happen to you. Um if if it were something that

she was like, "I just feel better about this." then you you could.

Yeah, nothing's on on fire here. So, if it just it makes you guys feel more united, awesome, but there's no like this is really going to benefit us in this explicit way. It's not really the case. You guys have, you know, legal protections as a married couple. And so, [music] you're doing all the right things, man. I'm proud of you guys. Wishing you the best with this uh baby. Very exciting.

>> Thank you. Two calls in a row. Look at this. >> it. That's that's the best thing you can do, I think. It's outside of the baby steps. >> [music] >> But we tell them, "Hey, there's no baby steps to have a baby." If you want to start a family, go for it. Go get it. And you'll you'll work even harder to sacrifice to take care of that little one. And uh it's a good [music] time.

>> [music]

>> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramsaysolutions.com/start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramsaysolutions.com/start.

>> [music]

[music] >> If you're wondering where all your money went in 2025, that's normal. And normal

is broke. But the good news is this year can be different. You can get a head start by downloading EveryDollar.

EveryDollar builds you a personalized plan and coaches you to find extra money and then put it to work to beat debt and build wealth. Just answer a few questions and you'll find thousands on average in just the first 15 minutes.

And EveryDollar still has the same great budgeting features to help you tell your money where to go. So, don't go another year feeling broke and stressed. Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Marie joins us up next in Charleston. What's going on, Marie?

Good afternoon, guys. So, my biggest question, I'm a single mom with three young kids. I was widowed in 2023. Mhm. And I'm just I have a

limited budget because we are currently

living just on Social Security survivor benefits. And I'm trying to go to school, get a certificate so I can add to that once my 4-year-olds in school.

So, I'm trying to right now with where I am, knowing I probably won't be out of school until next year.

Um trying to figure out what my wisest steps are going forward. I've never been

good with money. Um and I just want to I want to do better for them and for our

situation. Well, that's a great why.

That is what's going to fuel this journey is those three little ones that you're taking care of.

What's their ages?

Uh my youngest three are eight, six, and four. Okay. And what's the certificate that you're pursuing?

Uh health information technology.

And what's on the other side of that? What job are you aiming for? Um I'm kind of looking for something that keeps me uh the ability to have flexibility and remote. So, that's one of the reasons I chose that path.

Okay. And are you cash flowing this certificate? Are you able to pay for it all? Uh I'm actually able to get it through financial aid. So, it's Pell Grants. I'm able to get through all of it with Pell Grants. >> Great. When will you be finished?

Uh I think it's not this coming December, but the December following.

Okay, so you've got two >> But I have I have a potential to do to do to go into like an internship that or like to where I can do on-the-job kind of clinical type training at the hospital and make money through a portion of that. Okay. >> Okay, great. >> of next year and then in the meantime, we're going to be living off of the survivor benefits, which is how much per month? So, right now I take in about 52,000 a

year. 50 52,700 a year. Okay. Is that

enough to cover all of your bills?

It it is and I do have quite a bit of credit card debt that I was left with

because of my late husband's

Was your name on them? opened a bunch of credit cards in my name. Oh, okay. How much? Yeah. Um right now without my car,

I have 27,000 left in credit card debt.

And then what about with the car?

With the car, total of it's just under 70,000. I had to get a new car this last

year when mine 43,000?

>> Subaru. What's left on the loan?

Uh it's 33.

33 and some change. Goodness, that's a huge portion of your yearly income.

It is. It is. And the the thing that I do have going forward is I am in a relationship with someone that it is leading to a marriage and he's

encouraged me to not try to cuz if I tried to sell that, I'd be really upside down at this point. I wasn't wise when I bought it and I'm clear about that. But my financial situation will drastically change once we're married. I just I'm with the Dave Ramsey plan that you don't combine those things until you're there.

>> Are you engaged? >> trying Uh not yet, but it's hopefully this spring. Okay. Okay.

So it is it is in the our conversations. It's a it's a very active topic. We're just I need to There's a aspect of this that I being that I haven't always been financially responsible, there's a percentage of me wanting to do this and struggle. I need to feel the struggle.

And I don't think that you are. I just want to caution you against thinking about well, in the future I'll have this financial help because this is leading to marriage. Cuz you're not even at engagement yet. So I just want you to be really focused on what you are doing.

And the how upside down are you on the car?

Uh I'm not quite sure. I just got it in June of last year. I know that as of right now, once my cuz I I'm living rent-free. I'm able to live in a home that my mom owns, and I just pay utilities. Okay. >> So that is a huge help. So right now >> car. I'd check on the car immediately.

I'd go on Kelly Blue Book, see what the value is, and >> party value, not trade-in. >> Cuz that will make it seem like, oh my gosh, I'm 10 grand under. I would never sell it. But if you can save up the difference with the margin you have cuz you're living rent-free, maybe you're $5,000 underwater.

Okay, well, let's come up with 10,000 in savings. Five will cover the difference on the loan, and five will get you something to get from A to B. Now, maybe you get a nicer car, but it doesn't need to be a $33,000 car. Right.

>> Those are still safe and reliable, even for the kids. It's not a death trap.

Don't let anyone scare you into thinking that or even yourself. That's usually how we justify Well, I had to get a new car. The kids, you know, you got to have something reliable. Less debt is the goal. Yeah, what's the payment on that? Less debt is the goal. So >> Yeah, what's the payment on that? Right.

Right. Uh the payment is 655. Yeah, that

would rock your world right now.

>> It'll change your life. >> Right. So >> It It definitely could, for sure. I I do like the the man that I see that him and his youngest daughter come over and eat all the time. So he does throw me $500 a month for groceries because he does care.

So that that does help some. So like right now without what he does help me with, I my disposable income after

paying my debt, which is 1,700 bucks a month, and my just fixed expenses, like my bills, is 822. I bring I left over

disposable I have 1,800 bucks left over.

Okay. Without his help. And that goes towards your smallest debt?

The 1,800? >> asking cuz I have I know I have to have my uh I haven't even started my emergency fund yet, and I know that that's like number one, step number one. So eight with the 1,800, let's put it prac- practically to

to With the 1,800, I take a thousand aside this month when you when you're left with that margin, a thousand of it put it aside, savings account, done and done, baby step one knocked out. Then you have $800 to look over at the credit cards and go, what's the smallest credit card? And so what's the smallest balance

you have on one of those credit cards?

I mean, I have something as low as 123 up to 5,300.

>> So we're going to knock out >> Go ahead. >> quite a few of those. >> Yeah, knock out >> knock quite a few of those. Knock them out all the way up to 800 bucks.

And then if there's any other margin left out or that money that comes through at the end of the month, just go ahead and throw it at the next credit card. And you're really going to do that, Marie, until these credit cards are knocked out. I do like the idea so so much of you getting in a cheaper car because >> Okay. knocking that out is going to make this journey feel so much more feasible for you.

Plus, it's going to free up money. Like I said, even if you go from a $33,000 car to a $23,000 car, that's still going to free up money for you.

lower the debt if that makes sense.

>> Right. And our parameter on cars, just so you know, is that everything with wheels and motors in your life shouldn't add up to more than half of your annual income. And so we're well over that.

>> I understand that. And so even if [clears throat] you could >> was before I like really started listening and being active. >> Oh, sure. Sure. I'm just saying in in the sense of keeping the car, it's still too much of your world depreciating in value every day. And so I know it feels like, well, it's I'm already underwater. Well, let's let's cut it off right here and uh not be more underwater. Cuz if you did that right now, you said you have how much total consumer debt?

Total consumer debt is 69,000. Okay, what's the extra nine? Cuz you said 27,000 on credit cards, 33 on the car, that's 60.

Uh Is there more? I don't know. Uh that's the student loans.

Student loans, okay. >> Student loans. Cuz right now, I'm doing the math for you. 1,800 bucks, and you have 69,000. It's going to take you 38 months. You're talking over three years at this rate. Mhm. That's a long time.

Yeah, and I mean, that's that's the thing for me is I want to I have zero retirement. I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years. Right. >> So I have zero retirement. And you know, unfortunately, he passed in the because of the way he passed, he had life insurance, but we were two months shy of being getting the payout for that. So I've been kind of trying to float >> [laughter] >> for two years now. Well, you've done a great job.

>> You've done a great job. Keep going.

You got to the car is a huge part of this cuz I don't want this to take three years. >> on the car, so so if I What if I don't have cash to buy a new one? You'll just go over to the credit union, and you'll get a loan, or you'll go to the bank and get a loan for the difference. At this point, just remember, going down is worth it.

[music] So get you a loan for the difference however you need to get that done.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in baby step four or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The live like no one else cruise is back March 14th through 21st, 2027.

Join the Ramsey personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Cay, Cozumel, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will

sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 41:10.

So do not fear, for I am with you. Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous hand.

Simon Sinek said, "When in doubt, be

yourself." There you go. That's good advice if you've if you've got a good personality, Jade. >> Sometimes I'm told, "Hey, don't do that." Well, that's just who I am.

>> [laughter] >> Don't be that vulnerable.

Be a different version of yourself.

>> Yeah.

Austin is up next in DC. Austin, welcome to the show.

Jade and George, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help?

Um yeah, so between my wife and I, I have about 142 K

in consumer debt. And huge fork in the road right now. I've got a toddler and a kid on the way due this summer. So very uh precarious situation. And uh I'm just trying to decide if I should do a single filing for a chapter seven or go another route. I really don't want to do chapter seven, but if I have to and if it makes the most sense, then I will, but thought I would call you guys for advice first. Well, how much money do you guys earn?

Uh well, um right now, we only make about 78 total, which is well below the median.

Okay. >> the median what? I got laid off.

The median income median household income for my area.

Well, who cares about that?

Is that both of you working now? >> the reason you guys are in this situation, Austin.

Yeah, I I I agree. >> The median is like what, 8 79, 80? Okay.

You're two grand short of the median.

The The problem is we're $142,000 in consumer debt. So break this down for me so we can see if there's a way out of this faster.

Sure. Yep, so uh myself, I have 72 to my name, and

then another Well, it's actually 100 81,000 if you include student loans, but Tell us the the consumer debt is Tell us the the the debts and what they're each worth. So student loans, X amount of dollars, cars, X amount of dollars.

Yeah, so student loans is 39, car is

17,284.

And then everything else is personal loans, personally guaranteed loans, and personally guaranteed credit cards. Okay, and how much is that amount?

Uh let me do some napkin math here. So minus the car, so if you subtract 17

from 142, that's all of the personally

guaranteed loans and credit cards. Okay.

All right. >> talking about that can't that can't I mean, 125 grand between them?

Mhm. Okay. What was it for? A business?

Did you have a failed business? What is this all of these personally guaranteed loans and credit cards?

>> Yeah, so the dream was basically to

you know, retire the wife from the military.

And you know, I I went about it completely the wrong way, obviously, and you know, just dug myself into a hole doing business ventures, um you know, Airbnb, and then

we tried an Amazon store, and then after the layoff last month, uh we ended up having to live on the revenue from the Amazon store. Um so I'm

not able to pay off any of the consumer debt that I used to get the Amazon store.

Um so, um that's where we're at now, and um Do you still have this this property that you're doing Airbnb on?

It [snorts] was a I made a mistake of doing rental arbitrage last year. Dude, how much TikTok have you been watching?

Well, This is like by the book every TikTok like business hack scam out

there.

Yeah, you know, they sold me a dream, and I got a you know, I own up to that, and it was it seemed like a good idea at

the time when um you know, my my father-in-law died, and I was just really trying to find a way to Okay. >> make as much money as possible to retire my wife, and So, what is she doing I just went I went about it completely the wrong way. Yeah. Listen, I think I think you ought to that at this point you've got to just say that's in the past.

I think you realize that it was erroneous, and I think you're ready to go the right direction.

Um that's both of both of us combined right now since she's full-time um active duty, and um I'm still in the process of getting work. I'm trying to get a certification for cybersecurity Cybersecurity. down the road, but >> What are you earning? What portion of that is your income today of the 78,000?

What portion of that is yours today?

Of the 78,000, what portion of that is mine? >> Yeah, what do you bring in? So, Well, I'm doing I'm doing some side gigs in the meantime before school starts or if I get accepted.

>> monthly every month how much money do you bring in every month?

How much money do I bring in? Probably if I'm being realistic, probably between a thousand and two thousand right now doing side gigs with media and stuff like that. >> Okay, so that's that's our biggest issue is I know that you're doing a certification for cybersecurity. How much of your day does that take up?

Um so, I'm not doing it yet. The program starts in would start in March.

>> Okay, so I'm I'm I'm I'm cutting you I'm cutting you off a lot because I want to get to solutions, and I don't want to fluff around on this. All right, you need to get a job instantly. Any job any job,

not side gigs. You can fill in space with side gigs, but I want you to apply for anything that you think you could possibly get. I want you to make a list tonight. Your job tonight is to make a list of anybody you know that might know somebody that's hiring, that has an uncle that's hiring somebody that whose father-in-law is hiring somebody, and I want you to put the word out I need to work immediately.

I need I need connections. If you know anybody, and that I mean, you're going to be like a dog on a bone trying to get a job because you can't make a thousand you can't make 1,500 bucks a month. Now, your wife seems like she's kind of carrying the bulk of that, but like you said, there's a baby coming in the summertime.

her situation of working is getting more and more precarious as the months go on.

So, this is your number one deal.

>> two is we got a toddler we got a toddler at home, and I need to get a job that I'll make enough to qualify for a county assistance.

So, that's the kind of a thought of mine right now. It's like I would love to get a job >> You're so you're saying I need to you need to limit your income in order to get assistance. >> No, you need what you need to do is find a friend cuz you're in a community. You need to find a friend that's like, "Hey, I need help watching with the the baby sometimes because I need to go over here." If there's family in town, this is you reaching out to everybody you know because what I don't want is for you to file bankruptcy.

That's what I'm getting at.

That is somebody else stepping into the situation and saying, "You're going to sell this. You're going to do this.

You're going to pay this amount, and you're going to do this amount." >> And you can't bankrupt on the student loans. They're going to take the car, and so a lot of this is not going to solve the major problems. And you'll be able to do those things. We can look at this and say, "Why don't we just look at it and go, okay, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to pay this. We're going to sell this. We're going to do You can look at it and do that and not decimate your your financial life for I mean, seven years. >> you personally, right?

Are you guys renting?

What's that? Are you renting?

Yeah, we're renting right now. Okay, how much is your rent every month?

2,500. And that's that's steep for the

income. Is your wife going to continue to have income when she has the baby?

Yeah, maternity leave, so I'm guaranteed income. Okay, good good good good At least we have some stability there, and then how much is she bringing in on her own? Is that another three or four grand a month?

Um after taxes, 6,300.

Oh, great. >> Great. So, once we get you working, I mean, right now when you guys pay your bills at the end of the month, are you in the green or are you in the red? You should be in the green.

Um it it's really close. If we pay all

the minimums, I think we're if we're not breaking even, we're probably at a couple hundred dollars deficit. >> Okay, so we're going to give you every dollar because I want to know I want you to know exactly how much money you have

and how much exactly how much money you're spending. That's going to give you a lot of peace just seeing the numbers there. And then you can say to yourself, "Okay, if we're in the green right now, at least we're kind of safe

for a moment. We're not operating in the red. Everybody else can wait, right? It can wait until you get a job. It can wait until you cuz you're giving them the the minimum payments. But once you get that job, it's attack mode on [music] this debt. Smallest to largest debt snowball method. You got to fight, man. Don't give up now.

That puts the hour of the Ramsey [music] Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, [music] Christ Jesus.

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## 133. Rock Bottom Doesn’t Have to Define Your Financial Future | May 7, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by my friend Dr.

John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Steve is going to kick us off in Hartford, Connecticut. What's going on, Steve?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Doing great. How are you?

>> Oh, hanging in there.

>> What's your problem today? What's going on?

>> Geez, George, >> what's your deal, man? >> Steve, what's your problem?

>> Unless you just want to celebrate a win today. >> No. What's up, man?

>> So, so I'm in an interesting situation.

Uh, back in 2018, I had uh purchased a

house uh with my stepfather at the time.

Um, and it seemed like a good idea. We were splitting the the percentages. It was going to get me into a house uh a little bit sooner. I had a growing family. Uh, and they were supposed to only be there 6 months out of the year.

Fast forward to a couple years ago, uh,

my mother had split up. Uh, and at this point in time now, my mother is is living downstairs, uh, in the in-law apartment, uh, of which I am responsible

for all the utilities right now, and it's really hindering my ability to, uh,

make any progress on my my debt snowball

and make some progress in the baby steps. And I'm just wondering, you know, should I look to to sell this house? My mortgage is super low. My my mortgage is under $1,000 a month. Um, and I do have

some equity in the home, but I'm wondering if if it makes sense for me to sell, uproot my kids, find somewhere else to go, either raise my mortgage or even have to potentially get a rent. Uh, or if I should have just a conversation with my mom, start trying to get some utilities from her. Um, it's just it's a sticky situation. I don't know where to go with it. >> I'm so confused. So, let me get the facts straight. You your exepather is on

the mortgage.

>> My ex My ex-step is We're going to get

real We're going to get really weird here. So, my ex-step uh is actually my mortgage holder. Uh and he owns a part of my house. >> So, he is the bank.

>> He is the bank owner by part owner.

>> He does not live there anymore. your mom lives there and you're saying you can't pay off your debt because the utilities that your mom isn't paying for are crushing you financially.

>> I'm saying that with utilities, the extra utilities that I have for the house, it's a, you know, it's a 2500 foot home. I live in 1,700 ft of it, but I am responsible for all all utilities and all expenses of the home, insurance, everything. So, >> yeah, but that's like that's like 150 bucks a I just don't want you blaming mom for, you know, the $40 extra in water bills that that's why you can't get ahead financially.

>> So, my electric bill during the during the winter months is over $750 a month.

>> I have electric heat. So, my my utility bills are are in 7 to $1,000 range a

month. >> So, what's the ideal situation? Your mom pays rent or your mom gets out?

>> Uh, that I don't know. I don't I I feel like I should get out of this deal. Like I said, my mortgage isn't isn't high. My mortgage only is less than $1,000 um a month. So, I don't want to to sell, but I also kind of don't want to be in this deal any longer either. I kind of want to be >> that that to me that's worth it to get out of this weird deal with your ex-stepfather. >> That but that sounds like the real issue.

Is that is that the real issue? Is your mom using $500 a month in heat in the basement?

>> No, it's there's a little bit more to to my mom's side too than I >> don't necessarily want to share here, but it's also kind of affecting my relationship with and my mother.

>> Okay. We just didn't want to make this about the surface level, you know, dollars and utility bills. There's more there, which is cool. You don't need to share it all. And then on the Could you do you want to keep this house? That's step one. If you had it on your own, would you want to keep it? And if you could afford it,

>> I'm 5050. I love I love the neighborhood. I love where my house is.

Um I don't with with the in-law

apartment that's downstairs, the house doesn't make sense for me to own it 100%.

>> Okay. >> But I mean, could could you go to a mortgage company and buy your exepfather out? >> Just get a mortgage from them. >> Get a mortgage from them. Buy him out. Get him out of there. and then have a hard conversation with your mom about whether she's going to pay rent or not or she's got to move out cuz you're going to hire you're going to get a real renter in there.

>> I I could um I can't I can't legally

rent it. It's not a a legal in-law apartment. So, I can't legally rent it.

Um so, >> you can't rent a room in your house?

>> It's not a room. It's a It's a 1100 foot in-law apartment. But is there Connecticut laws that say it's not zoned for >> rent? I don't It's not It's not currently set up right now to have someone externally outside of my my family live in it. It's connected into my house. There's It's >> okay. Well, that's not against the law. That'd be awkward or weird, but >> it's it's weird. It It's weird.

>> Okay. It could be weird. And again, I I've lived in Texas and Tennessee. I could rent my roof if I wanted to, but you may have different laws in Connecticut. But >> yeah, if you don't want strangers walking in and out of your front door, I I get that. >> All things are pointing to you sell this house, you get out of this weird exepfather situation. Mom then needs to go find her own place and you start a new chapter. That feels like the cleanest thing to do.

>> Yeah. >> But that has nothing to do with you cuz let's say your rent goes to $1,500. I mean, your mortgage comes to $1,500 a month or $1,700 a month. You're still

you're solving for the relationship issues that you got in this deal, but you're going to be dollar for dollar about the same, right?

>> Yeah. >> What do you make a month?

>> Uh, I take home about $7,500 a month.

>> Great. So, even if your mortgage or even if you rented for a while until you figured out where you wanted to buy, you'd be just fine.

>> Yeah. >> So, this is all purely relational. I do have four I have four kids, so I do I do need some some space.

>> Are you single?

>> I'm married. >> Okay. And does your spouse live in the same house? >> She does. >> What does she think about all this?

>> She's about the same as where I am.

>> She'd be happy to to start fresh new house without all these financial family ties.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I think you got your your homework or home shopping. But I I I still want I want to challenge you on one thing and then I'll let you go.

Are you How old are your kids?

>> Uh I got a 8-year-old, I got a seven-year-old, a four-year-old, and about to be a one-year-old.

>> Okay. So, you're fully in it. You You're going to do six. And again, I know people all over planet Earth live in different arrangements, and that's awesome. But you're sitting in a 2500 foot house. You're going to do life with six people in a 1500 foot house or 1,700

foot house?

>> That's where I am right now. That's my little my living space is 1,700 ft.

>> I know. But you're telling me that's all you need and you've got too much house or do you have too much house for you and your mom to be there? Or could your

family expand it? Use this this basement space too?

>> We could expand to use the basement space. just doesn't it's it's a raised ranch, so it doesn't really make sense the downstairs. It'd be kind of hard to split my family up in in the the space.

So, having both I don't think makes sense for me logically to buy him out and and want to own the whole thing. Um, >> is he going to be willing to sell if you put this on the market?

>> Yeah, I'm sure he >> What would he get out of it versus you as far as the proceeds?

>> He's just he's just going to get his percentage. >> Okay. Yeah, I would sell it today.

>> Yeah, I would take what you can get out of that. If you can't afford to buy a home based on those proceeds, the one you want, then you just got to wait and maybe rent somewhere for a while until you can afford it. But this whole thing is just so intertwined. I would just want out emotionally. Best of luck.

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Todd is in Pittsburgh up next. Todd, welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> I thought you said God is in Pittsburgh.

>> He's also >> Todd is in Pittsburgh. All right. >> Todd and Todd are there. >> What's up, Todd?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Um,

my wife and I just got married December 27th. Um, we're in baby step three. Uh,

we now have four kids. who are a blended family and I'm wanting to know what is the best way to invest in the kids'

future when they are all vastly different ages.

>> Ooh. So, is are you trying to decide what's fair versus like, hey, one kid's about to go to college. Do we invest the same for the fouryear-old?

>> Exactly. So, their ages are 7, 10,

um, 16 and 17.

and my wife and I, my wife didn't get help with college when she was growing up. Um, I went straight into a family business and construction. So, I didn't

go to college. Um, so we are clueless on how to even invest for the kids.

>> Well, what do you want to do for these kids? Um, I would I mean I would like to

be fair, but I understand that because of the difference in age. Um, it would be nice if I could, you know, just give them put up all the same amount um for

each of them. And like I said, we're just in baby step three, but I'm just kind of looking ahead because we're looking for baby step three to kind of be a breeze. Um, and it's just uh

nothing I really know about. I don't know if there's a certain type of account to put up for each of them or um

or what. >> I I'll tell you, I had a similar situation, not not with um a blended family, but I worked in universities for 20 years. And part of working at a university for that long is you get some

sort of if not all of your tuition covered for your kids if you work there.

And then I left and took this job. And

so my I I didn't have any college savings because I was working in colleges, my wife was working at university, and that was just our plan.

And so I have a 16-year-old right now and a 10-year-old. And so the way we've handled it is we came up with a dollar amount that we want to have saved for each kid. But that means I had to

accelerate the savings for one kid and I'm slow playing it for for the other.

So, if you look at my budget every month, I'm not being quote unquote fair.

I'm holding back more money for one kid than I am for the other. But the number we're going to try to get to is is going

to be comparable. Right.

>> Right. >> So, and I think part of this is pretty solvable for you all because y'all don't have any money for the 17-year-old right now. Right.

>> Right. >> And so, some of that problem takes care of itself. You might want to look at the at the two younger kids and say, "Okay, we want to make sure this is different for them, too." But your 16 and 17-year-old have found themselves like life just happened. And so, y'all need to have some honest conversations about what we can afford and what we can afford and what debt has done to us over the years.

And here's the options in our local area. Free community college, um, lowcost state tuition.

Okay. Yeah. So, with the 17-year-old, he's getting ready to go to the Marines.

>> Okay. Great. That's >> We helped him out with his first car.

>> Great. >> Um, so which only ended up being five a

$500 Ford Ranger, which is

>> ran great. Um, >> that's awesome. >> So, that that was that was a good start.

Um, >> now I don't I just don't have any expectations as to what to do from here on out. And then if I do come up with a number amount or you guys help me do that, um where where does that money go

until it needs to go to them?

>> So if you want to invest that money, which if we're talking about investing that's a five plus year time horizon, which means it doesn't make sense for the 16 or 17year-old if you're investing for education, for example, when you got one or two years ahead of you. But for the seven and 10 year olds, you could invest for college in a 529 savings plan, for example, or an education savings account. So, you're going to earmark that money for college.

So, that's one place I would put some money if you want to help cover college.

Now, the good news is, let's say they don't go, you can also change the beneficiary anytime. So, anybody, it's a pretty loose definition of family that you can change that beneficiary to. And with the new secure act 2.0, you can roll over up to $35,000 over time into a Roth IRA for that child. So it can become kind of a bonus

retirement account for them as well. So that's one way to invest. And I like what Deloney is saying here. I would make it more goal-based rather than monthly contribution based.

So the goal is all of the kids go to school without debt if they choose to go to school. The goal is every child gets a paid for cash card. That's reasonable. Those are good goals.

And then the number changes depending on the ages and what you guys can do. Right now, your emergency fund is the priority over saving for the kids.

So, what's your household income?

>> Um, between my wife and I, um, probably

about, uh, 180.

>> Fantastic.

That's great. So, we're talking I mean, >> we got out of seven grand or so.

What's that? >> If you do 15% of that, that's baby step four. So, if you're walking through the Ramsey plan, you're in baby step three, saving up 3 to six months of expenses.

Once you've got that covered, now we start investing 15% of our household income into retirement accounts. So, if you've got a match through your employer, start there. You have access to any Roth accounts like a Roth 401k, Roth IRA, let's fund that. And if you still haven't hit 15%, go to the traditional accounts. And then any money beyond that 15% can start going towards kids investing goals like college.

>> Okay, that makes sense. >> And for short-term savings goals like you're talking about with a 16 or 17year-old, a high yield savings account will do the job for that. That's going to keep the money liquid. It's not going to fluctuate with the market. And so you're much better off there versus the kid turns 18 and the market took a dip and now you're you're stuck. >> Yeah. My my 16-year-old's college fund is in a high yield savings account. It's exactly where it is.

>> Okay, great. And so that's better, of course, versus like a brokerage account or something like that, correct? >> Yeah, the brokerage account now, that's something I utilize for my kids. That is for future goals that are non-education related.

So, I have a, you know, a a 2-year-old and an infant. So, I'm saving up going, "All right, I want to cover their wedding one day. I want to be able to help them get a car, maybe a home down payment, those kinds of things.

>> Okay, great. >> So those would be the three places I would put money is 529 for education, high yield savings for any short-term goals and brokerage account for any long-term goals for the kids.

>> And let me just free you, brother. None of this is going to be exactly fair.

And what I mean by fair is there's no way you're going to be able to find another $500 great running car, right?

>> When the seven-year-old is 16 trying to get a car, a beater car is going to be $10,000. >> Yeah. And hopefully you're making 280 at that time. Right.

>> Right. >> And you're going to be in a better place financially when that seven-year-old is going to college. And so it isn't going to be fair. You're going to be doing much better by then. and just just go ahead and build in the psychological cushion for your oldest getting back from the Marines being like, "Are you kidding me? You bought so and so." And you'd be like, "Yep, right." And that's just that's part of being a parent.

Right.

>> I I think that's what I needed to hear the most. So, thank you for that. >> Yeah, you got it. Like, do the best you can with what you got when you got it.

The only thing I'll ask is be as honest as you can with your kids in real time.

Um, it is a it can be embarrassing. It

can be shameful. Feel you could feel not you shouldn't be ashamed, but you could have feel shame like, "Hey, 17 year old or your 17-year-old going Marines, but hey, 16-year-old, this is the situation we've been in, and this is what we're going to have to contribute. We're only going to have $10,000." And so, let's go through the honest options here and let's figure out what's right. Like, it's just being as honest as you can.

and then look at your seven and eight-year-old and say, "Let's make sure this never happens again." And so, we're gonna start putting more away for them to have different opportunities. Which is awesome. >> Yeah. It's when they're surprised, that's when the resentment starts to build up cuz nobody told them. They didn't know. They saw one sibling get treated a different way. So, communicate openly and honestly with all four kids.

Yeah. >> Say, "Hey, here's where we're at financially. Here's what we want to cover. Here's what we can cover right now. Means you got to figure out a plan, 16-year-old, cuz we can't cash flow 4 years at an outofstate school. It's going to look different for you." Thanks for the call, man. Great question.

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next. Betty, welcome to America. What's going on?

>> Thank you so much for having me.

>> How can we help today?

I just feel just so so desperate for

help right now. Um

I am in my mid30s. I've been married for 10 years and we have five five kids together under seven. And um >> wo >> I thought we were doing really good with our baby steps um on four or five six

and then I just found out that he's been

um just hiding some debts that I didn't

know was happening.

>> Oh man.

How did you find out?

Um, I just had a feeling something wasn't right.

And when I asked about it, he was very

defensive and nope, nope, nothing. And I

just had the boldness to keep pressing.

And then he was like, yeah, like this is

why I haven't wanted to fully share an

account because my account is always negative.

And then what did he did he actually give you the facts afterwards? Was he honest or did you have to keep pressing?

>> So the numbers did change a little bit.

Um and he did look a little scared and I

just tried to be very calm, very safe so he would feel comfortable telling me the truth.

And I said, "I need I need to see your account." which still hasn't happened.

Um, >> so, >> and I want >> Go ahead. Go ahead.

>> And I I said, I want you to see a counselor with me because we like we

will figure this out and we need to stay together. Like, we have five kids. Like, I'm forever tied to him.

>> Okay. I'm going to give you some hard reality. Okay. How much How much money does he say he owes?

It's It's not much, but like every pay

about 40% just goes to whatever he's been spending. So I his check goes into his

account and 40% just gets eaten up and then 60% I

see for the household expenses and our

>> All right. So, >> but he's still negative every every pay.

>> Okay. So, here's what you're going to need underneath your feet. Okay. Um I I

call this financial infidelity. He's been cheating and lying to you. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And so, first off, I want you to not think you're crazy for this blowing up your world. It did.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. You're at home managing five kids, a family of seven, trying to feed them on allegedly 60% of their paycheck.

Okay. >> Mhm. Um, you should feel like the rug got pulled out from under you cuz it did. >> Yeah. >> And you're also right to ask, "What else have you been lying about? What else are you hiding from me?" Cuz we had this little secret world that we built together and you were out of it. You stepped out of it.

>> Mhm. >> Um, you're not going to have any sort of ability to rebuild this marriage until you know how the depths of where these things go. I would recommend you pull a credit report today on both of you.

Okay? He will have to pull his credit report and if he says no, then that is I

can't think of a bigger red flag because

and again I'm giving you the worst case scenario here. Okay? But when this happens in this way, it's not uncommon

for what's being hidden is not just

screwdrivers and motorcycles

But it could be hotels, it can be dinners, it can be addictions that you don't know about. Everything is now on the table. And so I want to pull a credit report and not just look at his account. I want to see who he owes money to. And I want you to pull your credit report. And this is going to sound costic. I want you to pull a credit report on all of your kids using their social security numbers.

Because when we people call into the show all the time and they don't realize how bad it is and people start gambling or people get in over the head and they pull a credit a credit card out on their 9-year-old and use that social security number to get a quick thousand bucks here or a quick $2,000 there. And so that will give you the big picture of

who you owe to what, who your family owes to what. Hopefully, you have nothing on yours and your kids have nothing on theirs and his is minimal.

And what this is was a scared, embarrassed husband that took the easy way out and he is ready to stand tall, take his medicine, and y'all can rebuild trust. Worst case scenario is you're in a way bigger mess than you know yourself to be in. Mhm.

>> But you can't you can't go to an untrustworthy person and demand that now you be trustworthy and think you're going to get any sort of nervous system stability from that because they've proven themselves to be untrustworthy over a long period of time. And so I need to see this stuff with my own eyes.

>> So how do I get a credit report done?

like >> I don't know how to. >> It's a simple website. >> It's all free. >> It's annualcreditreport.com and you can pull free weekly online reports from all three major bureaus.

It's Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion.

And so you'll just go through the steps, enter it. You never pay for this. This is free. So just go to that website and you can get that all done. annualcreditreport.com.

And that like John said, that will be the full truth and nothing but the truth. So regard I really don't care what he says. I want the reality of the situation. And again, if he's unwilling to do that, that speaks to much deeper things he's hiding. There's an alternate life here. And that tells me he doesn't

want healing in this marriage if he's not willing to come clean.

>> Right. And and let me say this. I want to applaud you for um

>> what you say you were calm so that he could feel safe enough to come forward.

I I want to applaud you for being in in

control, feeling big feelings, but being

emotionally mature, but you don't owe him dishonesty either.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> Your right to be enraged.

You're right. You're right to be sobbing at the table because this man lied to your face and to the face of his of y'all's five kids.

And so you don't also owe him a silver

platter that he can gently put out his receipts on, >> right? And so what I when I mean be you're responsible for the emotional like mature next right action, that means I'm not going to hit him. I'm not going to swear at him. I'm not going to punch a hole in the wall. Everybody deserves dignity and respect. But you you're dang well going to know I'm pissed off.

>> Yeah. >> You're going to know that everything in my life it I I'm questioning it now.

>> Mhm. >> Right. and you're not crazy and you don't owe him a false sense of yourself so that he feels comfortable coming forward with it, right?

>> Yeah. >> That's not your responsibility to massage his ego through this also.

>> Do you guys share an account or is everything? >> No, he wouldn't share it. >> So, you have no access to anything financial. He pays the bills.

>> So, he does pay the bills. We do have a

joint, but he has his own as well. So 60% he

diverts to the joint account. 40% diverts to this secret account. That's his. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, starting today, he's going to divert 100% into this joint account.

>> Okay. >> Or you separate if he's untrustworthy and he's going to destroy your financial life further. >> Yeah. And Betty, that that's a great point that George brings up. You need to get really clear on your what I call your or what statement

>> because if he looks across the table from you tonight and says, "I'm not pulling a credit report and I'm not giving you access to this account." Period. You have to have your or what statement ready or me and the five kids are going to my mom's house or well okay

then I guess I'll just have to live with it. And you mentioned we have to fix

this and stay together because we have five kids together. I need you to say that's the picture y'all created and that picture is over because of his financial infidelity. Now y'all have to rebuild something new and I hope it includes him and you and those five kids in the same house all working together to build something amazing. I hope that's the case. But you have to have the courage to say or what comes next.

And then be willing to to live into your own boundaries there. If he looks at you and says, "I'm not playing.

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Sarah is in Jackson, Mississippi up next. Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, me and my husband got married two weeks ago and um we are debtree.

Thank you. >> How was the honey? Did you guys go on a trip?

>> Um not yet. We've both been at work um we're both um in the military and so as soon as we get a time where we can take some leave, we're planning on taking a little honeymoon. >> I can hear you smiling through the phone.

>> Well, thank you. We're both still very excited. I love it,

>> dude. I'm so happy. I love love love. I

just think marriage is good. So, good for you. >> So, what's your question? >> Thank you.

>> So, we have $98,000 in cash combined. We

just finished um combining our checking accounts and savings account. And um so we have that 98,000 in cash and currently um we're bringing home $53,000.

and we're trying to figure how figure out how much money we should spend on a vehicle, we really need to upgrade one of our vehicles. So, out of that 98 grand, we're trying to figure out um what is like a good amount to put towards a vehicle.

>> And your annual income is 53,000 a year between the two of you?

>> Yes, currently. But it it um we're expecting it to go up within the next six months. >> Okay. To do you know an exact number or is it just sort of you're not sure yet?

Um, in about six months, we're expecting to start making a h 100red grand between the both of us. We're um anywhere from 100 to 110 grand.

>> Wow, that's awesome. So, you're about to double your income?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what's the urgency of the purchase? Does this need to happen tomorrow or 6 months from now?

>> Um, it could happen six months from now.

Um, so like currently, um, I'm driving a

2005 Honda Odyssey and it's great for

getting me to and from work and he has a 2014 Dodge Charger and, um, we just know

that, you know, they're both having some issues and we know that it's soon going to cost more to repair the vehicles than they're worth. So, we've just been shopping around.

>> I would like you to know, I just learned about this in Sunday school. Women who marry men with Dodge Chargers get a

express pass to heaven.

>> Oh, my husband's gonna love to hear that >> because generally men with Dodge Chargers are not marryable. But you did it and so congratulations. >> Debtree. Yeah, >> that's impressive. >> I'm just playing. But congratulations.

>> Now, here's here's the parameter for cars. Number one, you pay cash. You're going to do that, right?

>> Yes, we are. Number two, we're going to buy used unless we are net worth millionaires to where we can stomach that major hit on depreciation that cars experience in the first few years.

>> Okay? >> And then number three, you want to make sure that all the things with wheels and motors in your life don't add up to more than half of your annual income. That's why I was digging at your income. And if it's going to go up, well, that changes the numbers drastically because right now you should have no more than $26,000 in cars as far as their their value goes.

But 6 months from now, that number can change because it's a smaller part of your world. So now you could have $50,000 worth of cars sitting in the driveway. So that's where I'm I'm trying to go. Okay, can you wait 6 months to where you can get a nicer to you car cuz you have the money to do it.

It's not going to hurt.

>> Mhm. >> So what are you guys wanting to get? cuz that really basically what is the car you can afford in cash today that you

think would last you at least the next 5 to seven years.

>> Okay. So, we um we found the reason we started asking these questions is we found a um 2001 Ford Bronco with 12,000

miles on it for 32 grand. Um and so it's

a little bit more than that $26,000.

Um, but it's, you know, we've got the 32 grand for it. We just couldn't decide if, you know, it kind of hurts whenever you let go of 32 grand.

>> Yeah. I mean, it will hurt. And that's why I actually like it. Too many people, we've lost friction when it comes to purchases.

And all you see is a $400 payment that the car salesman worked out for you on his paperwork. What you don't see is the interest you're paying, the length of the loan, how you got screwed on the purchase, the extra warranties they threw in there because you're not going to feel it in your payment. And when you write a check for 32 grand, you go, "Okay, let's treat this car differently. We're going to treat this purchase differently.

We're going to go slower." >> What is it about an 01 Bronco?

>> Um, I'm sorry. It's a 2021.

>> I'm sorry. Okay. I heard 2001.

>> 21. Okay. >> Wow. That's an expensive Bronco. It must be >> Yeah. Completely redone. And like And Man, those guys who go redo Broncos, they're they do amazing work. They're awesome. >> Okay. 2021 Bronco. 32 grand. Here's my

catch. I would wait until your income actually goes up and this becomes sort of a celebration of your your newfound income. But I would not buy it today because there's there's just too many variables.

>> Okay. Yes, that that's some good advice cuz like we're both so undecided about it and I told him I was like if we're having this much doubt about it, maybe we should wait. >> God, he won the lottery marrying you.

Yes. Yes. And hey,

George, tell me if I'm wrong here. I find that I get in trouble when I say

I'm gonna I have this much money to go I'm gonna date myself. I'm gonna I have this much money to go spend at the mall.

I got 500 bucks to spend at the mall. I need to get a pair of pants and some shoes and a shirt. I will figure out how

to spend all $500.

Where I've seen success is I have a boundary. I can't go beyond this 500 bucks, but I need to go buy a pair of shoes and some jeans and a shirt and then I only spend a couple hundred bucks. You get what I'm saying? And so I would love for you guys to plan to dream about what kind of cars do we want actually and what cars are going to last us for a while and then over the next 6 months you can keep your eye open for because you might find this exact car in two months for 19 grand or 18 grand.

instead of saying, "Okay, we have this much to spend because you'll figure out when it comes to automobiles especially how to spend exactly 50% of your income." And that's like a stretch goal, right? and you don't have to spend that much. And you two are awesome at driving

used cars. That's that's your life. It looks like your your identity isn't in them. And that's awesome. Um I would I

would sit down and say, "What do we actually want to have together?" And then plan that way.

>> Okay? >> And let me tell you, a $3,000 repair, as much as it would suck on a really old car, is still so much cheaper than $32,000.

And so that's what I want to encourage. Too many people go, "Well, the I had a repairs. We had to get a new car." Didn't want to deal with the repairs, and they just justify it in their minds, thinking this thing's a clunker. So, even if you have to buy yourself some time for the next 6 months until your income goes up and this becomes a no-brainer, uh, it's worth the patience to do it right and go slow, but you're all all things considered, it's all green flags in my book.

>> Okay. Awesome. Well, I'll be sure to tell them and and thank y'all. Y'all definitely brought some clarity to the situation for me. >> Happy to do it. Thank you for your sacrifice and service to both of you.

>> Oh, thank you. We are so glad we get to do it. >> Yeah. And the last thing I'll tell you is you got the Honda, so you're probably going to be driving that till the apocalypse.

>> I do have one rule in my house. The wife should be driving the nicer car. I just I don't like it when the guy drives a nicer car. >> I'm with you.

That's always I've always had a weird thing about that. >> It just feels >> always always. >> So, especially if she's, you know, toting the family around and the guy has like a sweet sports car that's just for him. I'm like, "All right, you're a grown man, >> dude.

1,000% with you." >> The other thing is, and John, people get screwed on this. They go to the dealership and the dealer says, "Hey, you know, for five grand more, we can get you into the brand new one you got on the lot. Look at this. Got these extra features and hey, if you do the financing, we'll knock a,000 bucks off." Now, all of a sudden, you are buying a brand new car that was way more.

They suckered you into the warranty and the paint protection package and the giant dock fee, dealer fee they just throw on there and you're so stareyed. You just want to get out of there after six hours and go drive this thing.

You just lost it. It's now worth what you were about to pay for the used one, right? >> Yeah. New car will depreciate 10% the moment you drive it off the lot. >> And within the first 5 years, 60% on average. >> Yeah. That's pretty wild. >> I love love love buying cars that are 5

years or older because I've of the the depreciation has burnt off so much.

>> Yeah. My last car, one owner, 4,000 m on

it, and I got 26% off. Yeah.

>> Of when I would have bought it brand new. >> Huh. >> So, I All right, I'll deal with that. I I'll take And you know, I could have bought it new.

It would have been fine, but I just like going 25% off feels pretty good. >> And I've got cash, so and I'm not afraid. >> You got to have walkway power. That's the key.

You walk in with a check of here's our budget. Either make it work or we'll go down the street. And eventually, if they want, you know, to feed their family, they're going to go, "All right, we'll take it." Yeah. Don't let them bully you.

Focus on the out the door price. Have your principles and values. Stick to it. And you will make a wise decision when it comes to those cars.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Relle is in Sacramento up next.

Michelle, how are you doing?

>> I'm doing well. How are you two?

>> Fantastic. How can John and I help today?

>> So, my husband and I are considering purchasing a new home. Our house is currently up for sale. We've identified a property that we would like to purchase. With the equity from the sale of our current home, we would have a rather sizable down payment, looking to put down at least 50, if not 60% on a new house. My husband has brought up the idea of getting a first lean helock with

a sweep account versus a conventional mortgage. and he's explained to me that

with this first lock helock with a sweep account, rather than getting into a 15 or a 30-year loan, we would be able to pay off a $400,000 mortgage in eight

years.

>> So, I was wondering

>> No, the speaker came on his phone. I apologize. >> Oh, it's all good. >> Um, >> so I was wondering, it sounds great.

I've never heard of this before. So, I was wondering what you guys thought about that. >> So, this in the in the Tik Tok world is called velocity banking. He may have heard about it on social media.

I don't know where you know this is, but it's a trend where they call it like a mortgage accelerator. And the idea is there's this revolving line of credit almost like a big credit card that's secured by your house, uh, but it's your only loan on the property. So, you're right, it's your first lean and that there is no mortgage there.

So that's what he is wanting to do.

There's still a lot more risk with it, and it sounds sophisticated, and it's more complex, and that doesn't make it better.

>> So, have you guys priced out a traditional 15-year mortgage on this?

We've priced out a 30. We have not priced out a 15.

>> Okay. I would price out a 15 and see if

you guys can afford that payment where it's a quarter of your after tax monthly income. And if not, it tells me the house that you're looking to buy is too much house.

>> So your recommendation would not be to do a first lane.

>> No sweep account.

>> No. And I think the way he found this was probably online. And there's a bunch of people out there who are proponents of this. And again, it's called velocity banking. You can look this up on social media, and it's going to be some slick dude telling you how this is the hack.

Here's the only hack that works. You get a 15-year mortgage, which is going to have a lower interest rate than either of these, and then you pay it off aggressively. Here, here's the thing that if you take out a uh if you have a $400,000 mortgage and y'all put down 50% and you have $200,000 left, there is no

secret loan that makes you not have to pay back $200,000 plus interest.

And so the only true way like so like we

can do a 30-year note, but we can pay it off in eight years. You're still going to pay back that money plus interest.

And so if y'all want to pay it off in eight years, that's amazing. can pay it off in eight years, but that just means every month you're going to be paying more towards the principal balance to pay it off faster.

But there's not like a secret loan you can do that you pay back a hundred grand

to pay off $200,000. You get what I'm saying? >> Like the whole hack is technically you can get a lower interest rate and technically you can take that lower interest rate that you're paying and pay off more principal.

But the same thing applies just paying it faster.

>> Understood. The way he was explaining it to me, and this is kind of where my brain starts to shut down and my eyes glaze over. Um, same girl the finance.

>> He's more of the finance person. He was explaining to me that it gets paid off quicker because they compound the interest daily.

>> Yeah. The way it's calculated, that's where the interest savings come in.

>> But there's still all of the elements of a heliloc, which is a variable interest rate, which means the payment can go up. the banks can uh freeze or call the line which adds more risk to it. It's a revolving line of credit secured by your home. And so all of that just makes me go why are we doing all this? Why all this gyration to maybe save a little bit of interest? I I 100 especially with all the volatility in the world right now like go back 10 years in your life. Can

you have imagined now?

Right? No. None of us could have. And so with all the volatility in the world, the chances of me touching a variable interest rate is zero.

>> Right. >> Right. And so you can get inpecially if you got in today and the banks and suddenly Jerome Pal comes up tomorrow and says, "Hey, because of X, Y, or Z, we're raising interest." Like, man, y'all are on the hook for it.

>> Right. >> And there's far more of these ending up in foreclosure versus a 15-year mortgage. And so that's where I go, okay, why aren't we doing a 15-year mortgage and just putting extra on the principal? It's the exact same thing without all the extra risk and and complexity.

>> I and I'll I'll go one more. I'm putting my baggage out in the world, so this may not be you and your husband, but if you give me a revolving line of credit and suddenly I don't like my floors, I'm going to get new floors because it's not real money. It's just coming out of coming out of the revolving line of credit.

We need to get a new fridge. Let's just monopoly money. Let's just go ahead and do it. It becomes not real money.

>> And yeah, I I'm just going to lock myself in and pay it off. And if I want to accelerate and pay it off faster, I'm going to do that. >> I don't know that we can convince your husband, but I hope we convince you, which I hope puts enough of a wedge between you guys that you don't do this.

>> And here here's my rule of thumb, George. If somebody's explaining something to you know who I learned this from of all people, Ashton Kusher.

>> Not on my bingo card. >> And here's why. He was talking about somebody was asking him once on a panel, why do you seem to have so much success with these companies you invest in as an angel investor? Um, and I forgot all I

think Airbnb and Pop Chips and and Uber.

So, he got in on the ground floor of all these things. And he said >> he I think he dropped out of high school or maybe he finished high school but didn't go to college. >> And he said his one line was, "Explain

this to me like I'm a high school dropout." or explain this to me like I'm a high schooler. And if they couldn't do it, I didn't invest. And so for me, when

somebody's trying to explain to me a thing we're getting into, and hey, Deloney, I want you to invest in this thing. If my eyes start glazing over that, I'm out. If you can't explain it to me, very simple, here's why. Here's the terms, here's the payout, or here's the risk we're all going to take together.

If you can't do that in a sentence or two, I'm I don't want to participate in it. >> Yeah. >> Because because it's not it's not worth all the complexity. Because now the more variables, the more fragile the whole system is and the more dependent it is on other people to do what they said they're going to do and that what those other people said they were going to I'm out.

I'm out. It's too fragile. >> Yeah.

>> I've never heard of someone saying, "Yeah, the way I paid off my house early was I did velocity banking." >> I know zero people who have told me that that line. >> There's a lot of people talking about it, though. And so that tells me something. It's it gets the clicks and the views, but it doesn't work in reality.

And you don't see the people who foreclose on their home. They're not sharing that on Instagram. They're only sharing the wins.

And we always tell people, don't invest in anything you don't understand. The same applies to crazy mortgage hacks.

Here's a hack. Get as small of a loan as possible on as short of a term as possible and pay extra towards it.

>> I can understand that. I could explain that to my toddler and she'll get it.

>> There you go. So, the real question is, how are you going to approach this with your husband in a way where you come to a compromise? And I hope that compromises go with a thing that you both understand that you both can handle.

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Today's question comes from Carlos in Texas. He says, "My pre-teen son has his own YouTube channel and he's on pace to earn over 5,000 bucks a month soon.

Should he be tithing on this income? How much should I encourage him to save or invest versus spend? He understands taxes, so we've got that part down. Left to his own devices, of course. He's a pre-teen kid. He would buy all the Legos in the world." >> Yes. >> Of course. >> This is fantastic. That means he's a good regular pre-teen kid and he's an

adult in his life to help steward

steward how he spends his money.

>> Yeah. So he's making I mean if he's on pace to do five grand a month soon that's 60 grand a year that a pre-teen is making, >> right? >> Which tells me he's what 11 or 12 >> possibly. >> That's pretty nuts. >> That's that's great. So like right off the top we can just do the math real quick. Um, some people, and I'm assuming

tithing, it means you're you're a person of faith. And so tithing, some people

tithe off the top line, meaning you would tithe at 10%, 6,000 bucks a year if you're making 60. Some people tithe on after taxes are gone. What do I what am I bringing home that I can spend?

They tithe off that. Every one of those things is a matter of you and your spirit. But I do, George, think it's important to teach kids. Um, we save a

piece of our money, we give away a piece of our money. Um, even if you're not a person of faith, generosity has all I mean, it's wired into us. It's it's part of our psychological and emotional and spiritual health. And you have money to spend. And George, I like the idea with

a pre-teen kid, um, when it comes to spending. So after you've saved a chunk of money, after you've given a chunk of money, I like to let young kids, my kids

kind of buy what they want to buy because they that's the way they learn, oh, I wish I had that hundred bucks instead of that completed Lego set. Or maybe they get that completed Lego set and it's great. And they learn what they like and don't like. But man, watching my 10-year-old navigate, I got $50 and I

want to go buy a thing. Are you sure?

Yeah, I really want to buy it. And then the next time she wants to, she earned saves up some money, she wants to buy something, then we could say, "Hey, where's that thing you bought last month or two months ago or three months ago?" Oh, yeah. Do you really want that? No, I don't want that. >> They sort of learn. So, they learn >> temporary effects of stuff.

>> Yeah. Telling a pre-teen, you don't really want those Legos. They're like, "Yeah, I do." And so, I like letting them when they have their spend money, kind of let them buy what they want to buy. Um, unless obviously not not grant

audio or something, but like within your family's values, but I like them to learn that lesson, but they should be saving some, they should be giving some,

and that's that's going to be a personal decision. >> Yeah. And at this age, it's less about, you know, you got to be legalistic percentages. It's more about, hey, are you kind of budgeting this money like a business, like a profit and loss statement?

So, I would have him, you know, jump on every dollar, make a free account, and put his 5,000 there and say, all right, I'm going to give 10% 500 to the tithe. I want to invest a thousand before I ever get to enjoy the money.

Invest a thousand bucks. Maybe you save 2,000 bucks. He's probably has some goals to like get a car one day when he's 16. And I would spend a,000 bucks.

I feel like it's a reasonable amount out of five grand for a kid with no expenses. Let him do it. Let him see what's actually worth putting his money into and what's not and even reinvesting into the business. >> Yeah.

>> Maybe you want to upgrade equipment. >> That's right. There you go. And I for a young kid, especially I think for adults too, but for a young kid, I think it would be valuable.

Let's say he's 12 to say how much if if you make 60 grand, which by the way, if you're living off YouTube, they change their algorithm every other week. And so, best of luck to you. But college, let would we want to put $150,000 in a college fund? So, let's reverse engineer that by month.

What would we need to start saving now that would get us that amount of money? you want a car when you're 16. You're 12 now. So that's four years away.

Let's say we want $20,000 for a car. What would we need to start saving now? So creating long-term syncing funds will teach him at a young age like, okay, if I want something big like college, like a house, like a car, I got to start planning now for those things when I get there.

>> like as soon as that check hits his account, 30% goes into a savings account earmarked for taxes. >> Yes. If he learns that now, he's never going to be calling in saying, "I owe the IRS 150 grand because I didn't realize I owe taxes on this money." That's adults calling the show doing that. So, if 12-year-old can figure this out, >> I think I heard Dave say this once that one of the greatest tricks the government ever pulled was the automatic tax deduction that if every American had to write a check every month for their taxes at the tax office and hand over a check or cash, >> we'd be paying a lot more attention to what the government spends, right?

>> We'd be throwing some tea in the harbor again, I Correct.

start making some money and saying, "Oh, you you made 5,000 bucks this month.

2400 bucks, not yours." Like, why not?

Well, you know, >> ouch. >> We got to keep these pet projects going.

>> That's a great problem to have. And again, we don't know how long this is going to last. So enjoy the ride while it lasts and make sure that he, you know, keeps his head on straight and watches his mental health cuz YouTube is a can be a wild place. All right, John is in Orlando up next. John, welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me, guys. How you doing? >> We're doing great. What's your question today? >> Okay, so I'm 52. Um, I have a 9-year-old

son I have 5050 custody of. I make about 65,000 a year. 25% of that is being

garnished. Um, and that'll be going on for another about year and a half. I have an additional 25,000 in IRS debt and 25,000 in credit

card debt. Um, I have just come upon and

found these trading cards, baseball cards that I had put away and they are

now worth a lot of money. Um, they're liquid up to about I'd say over 200,000.

>> Wow. I don't. Yeah, they're like show Otani rookie cards that are signed. Um I

don't have any savings. Um it's a long

The divorce was bad. Um >> yeah, you based on what you just told us, you went through a pretty rough season, huh?

>> Yes, it was really bad. I lost my dad. I lost my job of 12 years. Then I got divorced. I b I bought it my son was born in in um I don't want to give the exact date but in in in

December. I lost my job the following January. I bought my first house 6 months before that that we moved into.

>> Wow. >> And then I got divorced two years later.

It was just a uh I lost my dad um nine

months before my son 10 months before my son was born. >> So it it was a bad time. Um um so anyway

though um made bad choices. The 401k was emptied out when I lost my job. I stayed at the best thing that happened was I stayed at home with my son for 9 months. Um and that was a great time. But I we went through my 401k at that time. Um and due

to that and because I was in a different state at that time, they wanted they wanted the taxes on uh that money um

from the 401k distribution that was early and I had also inherited some money from my dad which they wanted from that too. Um unfortunately I wasn't in

Florida at the time or else I would have been fined from what I've learned. So anyway, what I want to ask is I have

this debt. I have these cards that are probably going to be even worth more money down the line, but I have this debt now and I want to leave something for my son. Um,

and I can't just keep living and pay the check right now cuz it's I'm like just at the end of it. I just can't do it anymore. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I'll tell you this, John.

I'm going to solve for peace in the present. Not go, man, what what could I have if I hung on to him for five more years? I'm paying off the debt. All of it.

That's 50K. I'm setting up an emergency fund for myself of six months of expenses.

>> Yeah, my work does offer a 4% match,

which I haven't signed up for yet because I didn't know if I was going to go bankrupt before I realized what I had. >> Not anymore. This is your fresh start, man. I would pay off the debt. They they offer the the the 401k pre-tax or the IR Roth IRA up to 4%. You do the Roth IRA.

>> I mean, I love the after tax option cuz then it's going to grow taxree for the rest of your life. And so, I would definitely pay off the debt, get the emergency fund, get the 4% at least fund

a Roth IRA, and uh if you hang on the line, I'll send you my book, Breaking Free from Broker, to walk you through that whole plan. But I would sell these cards to give yourself a fresh start.

>> And never look up their potential future

value again. Sell them and be done.

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You can compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Jordan is in Miami up next. Jordan, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Sure. How can we help today?

Hey, I'm just trying to figure out how I get out of this momentum of just wanting

to keep going. Um,

just live my life in general. I'm at like a point I'm at like a breaking point in my life where I'm currently stuck in the city I'm at with the job I just I'm not good at and I'm 3,000 miles

away from home. So, it's kind of been a little hard for me. >> Yeah. Hey, do me a huge favor. talk right into the phone, brother. Um, why why are you stuck in Miami?

>> Um, so I recently bought a car from a

dealership that they claimed had no

problems up in Idaho and I had a friend

who does doortodoor sales and he's like, "Hey, let's do some sales with me." I'm like, "You know what's going to hurt doing that?" I reached Nebraska. My car

has transmission problems. I take it to

Subaru. They can't buy it off of me. So, I had to leave it in storage unit, fly out down here with the rest of the money I had.

And now I'm just struggling. It's with sales. I just I'm just lost of what I

need to do. Plus, I'm in debt. So, >> but I mean, when you say stuck,

if if >> can you legally move tomorrow?

>> Yeah. Could Could you get a bus pass or could you like just suck it up and call your parents and say, "I need a bus pass home and go home." >> I don't have parents.

>> Okay.

Could you work really hard for the next 30 days and get a bus pass and go home and get out of this mess?

>> That's that's the issue. It's like I feel like every everything I do like I

for the past week I've been I've been busting my butt. I've been out there 10,

12 hours a day trying to make these sales, >> doing doortodoor sales.

>> Yes, sir. >> What are you selling?

>> Pest control.

>> Are you making money doing it? What's your average week or month look like?

>> Um, so the average week is around 4,000.

That shifts in like um sale commission, which is only like $1,000 personally. >> Four grand a week. um

for um like this type of market. It's

it's based off the commission. So, we've sell $1,000, but that's for the company.

>> Okay. What are you taking home, though?

What ends up in your bank account at the end of the week? >> 1,000 bucks a week.

>> A little less, probably like 600.

>> So, you're making about $2,400 take-home pay doing this?

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future. I mean, this is you busting it.

>> Yeah. >> For 600 a week.

What's stopping you from going to find a different job in Miami?

>> Um, well, the way they have it around here is there's a five, it's like a hotel room with three rooms and it's just a rent problem and I don't have if I tell them like, hey, I need to find a different job. I don't know if they're going to allow me to stay. So it's either >> So you're living rent free as part of the deal.

>> No, it's 800 a month.

>> So you could find a couple of roommates and go elsewhere. >> Yeah, this is of servantthood, man.

>> Right. >> I don't think you're as stuck as you think you are. I think you're just depressed. >> Yeah.

>> And you don't have the energy to get unstuck, >> right? >> Where's your parents, brother?

What happened to him? Um, >> they passed away. >> When did they pass away?

>> Uh, last year. >> Okay.

Do you have siblings?

>> Um, they also passed away.

>> So, you lost everybody in your family?

>> Was a hit and run with a drunk guy and everybody's in my truck.

>> Man, I'm so sorry, brother.

>> You got any friends in the area?

Uh, I'm with my best friend. He's the one who's kind of like because I I've been working in Idaho um just as like as

a manufacturing company doing um like AR

triggers just for a you know 16 hour and

it was miserable. And he was like, "Dude, we got to get you out. We got to you know get some life back into you." And I was starting to believe him because it's Miami. I mean, who doesn't have fun in Miami?

And I was just like, "Yeah, man. Let's do it. Whatever." And then as life can't get worse, this dealership screwed me over with my dream car that I saved up a lot to buy.

>> What do you owe on the car?

>> 21,000. >> And what's it worth?

>> About 25.

>> Is that in its current condition, it's worth 25?

>> No. Oh, it's currently worth like eight grand because there's transmission problems.

>> And you can't afford a new transmission, obviously.

>> No. And what other debt do you have?

>> In a storage unit in Nebraska.

>> What other debts do you have?

>> I have a personal loan for about three

grand. I was hoping to use that to kind

of just get me a little push forward.

while I'm in Miami.

Um, I mean, so far it's not it's not

going horrible. I just need to find a way to get myself out of this mentality where I'm not good enough to or where I feel like I'm not trying enough to make these sales or keep going.

>> Bro, I I know you feel like you're at the bottom right now, but I'm telling you right now, I've been doing this for my whole career. you it's you had a

massive loss in your life and you got to go sit down with somebody and I know you can say you don't have time >> or you don't even have the resources. I I'll give you six months free with Better Help, but I think you're going to need some in-person sitting with somebody to metabolize the amount of grief and loss you've you've experienced in the last year.

>> And I'm just telling you, therapy changed my life. I'm still here because of it and it's worth it and you're worth it. But you got to go sit down and talk to somebody. You're not going to be able to power through this because there's nothing to power through,

>> right? It's kind of like treading through mud with >> That's right. >> That's right. And another loan's not going to get it. A dream car is not going to get it. >> Even another job isn't going to heal it.

>> Yeah. 16 hours. Another job might give you some margin.

It might keep you from feeling like you live in a failure factory. Right. I couldn't do I I would be terrible at door to door salesman. I would do it if that's the only way I could feed my family, but I'd be terrible at it. Um I

don't want you doing something that you're terrible at that is just compounding this vision of yourself in the mirror.

>> Yeah. And it's like I do have a dream. I want to help people. Like I want to like I've I've always talked to my parents about this because they've always noticed it about me. I want to like I want to help people especially literally the situation I'm in right now. Like that's what I want to do. I want to, you know, be able to tell my story or Yeah.,

>> you know, help them. I want to be in psychology. Um, >> that's awesome. But listen, you you can't give what you don't have, >> right? >> And so the best therapists I know as

friends and colleagues, myself, the people who are best at helping others have had their own journey getting the help they needed.

>> Right. >> Right. And it's you just opening your hands up saying, "Okay, I've tried a new car. I've tried a new job. I've tried a new state. I've tried a new location.

Um, it's time for me to get with a professional and face this head on."

>> Right.

But I would tell you, I don't think you're broke. I think your body is trying to take care of you, man. And it's just saying, "Hey, we got a lot to metabolize and a lot to process and a lot to walk through." It's so so much, brother.

>> Right. >> Okay. So hang on the line here. I'm going to hook you up with um 6 months of BetterHel licensed counseling so you can get started today. You can reach out to them today. Um and then hopefully they can connect you with some resources in your local area. Um >> I'd also like to get them a copy of your book, John. >> I'll send you an on anxious life. I'll send you the audio book and the regular book. Um maybe you can listen to it while you're walking um door to door.

But it's not going to be the thing that fixes you in this moment. I don't think you're broke. I don't think you need fixing. I think you need healing. And I think you need somebody to sit with you for for a season. Um, but man, we're

we're praying for you and we'll be walking along. We'll give you the resources we got. We'll send you every dollar, too, to get you get help you get your money screwed on straight. But, um, man, for as hard as you're working for 600 bucks a month, maybe a fast food job or something would help.

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Sean is in Daytona Beach up next. Sean, welcome to the show.

Hi, >> thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> All right. So, um I'm I'm a merchant marine. A merchant marine for about 20 years.

>> Hey, Rich. Uh do me a huge favor, Sean.

Talk it talk directly into the phone for me. >> Sure. >> There you go. >> I am a merchant mariner. I've been one

for about 20 years now.

>> Awesome. >> Um I I have multiple jobs, but uh my

primary is in the merchant marine. My other is uh I'm an over the road trucker and I do construction and that sort of deal too. But um basically what ended up

happening to me was I was married for 10 years and I had moved up pretty high on

the ships. I was doing about 110,000 a

year for myself and then my um ex-wife

was doing an additional maybe 50 or so.

So we had the bills associated with

$160,000 a year household.

Um during COVID I got forced to step

away from my job because I didn't get vaccines because I didn't trust it and

um also I wanted to retire to be home

with my young child.

Um so basically I forcibly retired with

about $100,000 in the bank. Um, and then

we got hit by a hurricane and um, I had

to do a second mortgage on the home from the SBA to, you know, pay for the roof,

the fence, and everything that got destroyed. And then we got talked into the solar panels. And, uh, while I was

home, I was working 10 jobs and making about an eighth of what I was making on the shed. So, my ex-wife uh decided that

because, and this is what she said to my face, because I was making less than her, she lost all respect for me as a man. And then she cheated on me with um someone who made way more. And yeah. Um,

so the divorce happens just settled um

the middle of last year and I went back

to the ship because I was not mentally

healthy and in order to keep my kid through the divorce, I basically had to swallow all of the bills for $150,000 a year

household. And by stepping away, I lost my promoted

position. So now I've gone from about 110 a year personally down to about 74.

Um so I have about $250,000

worth of debt and

um almost all of it is in the household.

Um but I I'm just so stressed.

>> Yeah. All right. So how can we you've

been through a lot. Um, how can we help?

>> Well, I I just think I might need

somebody to tell me that my my fiveyear

plan is somewhat workable and that I'm not an idiot. But it's >> fiveyear plan to what? >> What's the goal for you?

>> Um, to be able to actually retire and

actually go see my son.

>> How old are you?

and he's six, but he is barely me in the

past. I'm 37.

>> Okay. Why do you need to retire in 5 years or else? Where did that come from?

>> Well, I don't need to. That's kind of what I would like to do. At least retire from this career and do something.

>> When you say retire, you mean you have enough assets that replace your income to cover your bills and lifestyle.

Correct. By by retire I mean um be able

to shift um into a career where I can

remain in the area of my home.

>> Got it. So you just want like an encore career that keeps you local.

>> Right. I mean >> currently I'm an over the road trucker and a merchant mariner. Okay. Kind of.

>> Here's the thing. I I I again I know these these conversations are really compressed and so >> what I'm hearing is and none of your plan is going to work unless you make this change. Okay?

>> Right? You have to take ownership of all the

choices you've made because the way you told that story,

other than your wife being like a horrific human, right?

Other than that, every choice you made from I had to get a second mortgage. I got talked into the solar panels even though I had 100 grand in the bank. I had to do this. I had to do that. I chose like I want you to take ownership

of I made some choices that have landed

me here or I made some choices that gave me no margin and then boom, I got hit

with a literal hurricane and a hurricane inside my marriage and I had no cushion

because I made some choices.

And when you take that level of ownership, it's it it this is all neuroscience, brother. It puts you back in the driver's seat of your own life

and it begins to >> I'm fully aware that I made some mistakes here. >> Okay. Awesome. So, I I'm hardressed to

believe that a guy that works as hard as you do that has the skill set you have

could not find a $75,000 a year construction job or a building job in your local community. Am I crazy?

>> Uh, no. you're actually that that doesn't

work. I have looked there's very few jobs in my area that would pay that

without forcing me to go get an entirely different uh skill set.

>> Okay. >> You have like seven skill sets. Get an eighth one. >> Yeah. >> What's stopping you? >> That that's what I'm saying. Like the picture you had of your life, it's over now. It's ended.

>> And so the question before you, do you want to keep do living a life where you won't see your kid till you're 11? And I'm not I'm not judging that. I just want you to take ownership of this is the choice I'm making or I'm gonna sell this house and get a one-bedroom apartment because this dream is over.

And >> well, I didn't really get to that part, but uh currently the house is on the market. >> Okay, great. >> Um it it should sell somewhere between

215,000 to 2130,000, which would give me

um roughly about 10 to 15,000 cash in

hand. >> Amazing. Is that after you pay off the solar, pay off the second mortgage?

>> Yes. >> Awesome. >> Okay, great. >> Amazing. >> So, that gets us >> I'm proud of you for that. >> That gets rid of a large majority of the debt. What other debts are there in this 250K?

>> Oh, um I just managed to pay off $25,000

worth of credit debt while I've been out here. >> Amazing. That's awesome.

>> So, I've got an additional $5,800 worth of credit card debt. Uh my ex-wife's car

loan is still in my name. Um but she

pays on that thankfully. Um but

basically um what I'm seeing for my

future here is I need to be a merchant

marine because it uh pays for my child's health insurance free of charge. Nothing.

>> Got it. So that saves me.

>> I I personally I I personally like you

just laid out a map and I'm I'm hearing a man stand up and get in the driver's seat of his own life. I'm going to sell this house and um I'm going to have 15 grand in the bank and I'm going to pay off this $1,500 credit card. I'm going to owe nobody anything. And then dude,

if you go make $50,000 as a school teacher, it will come with health insurance. Personally, I'm going to I

would choose less money and more time with my kid than I would never see my

kid for this quote unquote free health care. That free healthcare is coming at a major cost to your relationship with your son, to your psychological well-being, to your overall financial well-being. And so, you make some sacrifices like you're making right now.

I'm going to be a one-bedroom apartment dad right now. That's the world. That's the cards I've got. and I'm going to be a teacher and on the weekends I'm going to drive trucks and in the evening I'm going to repair I don't know people's front porches or something because you've got that skill set. I'm going to do what I got to do to scratch and claw.

I'm telling you, man, that kind of hard work gets rewarded over time, but you're

you're it's again, it's you're making some amazing sacrifices. And also, another foot is still trapped in this.

Well, I guess I got to and dude, I've got personal family and friends who are locked into a forever bluecollar life

that's killing them because I get a good deal on health insurance or whatever. And that's just not a trade.

>> This 160 grand lifestyle, your income got cut in half. You have a $74,000 lifestyle now. And so you're going to have to make changes to your life, your budget, your career to have this life you want. We're rooting for you. We think you have more agency than you think. >> Yeah. And you're doing it. You're doing it.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney taking your calls at88255225.

Carson is in San Antonio up next. What's going on Carson?

>> Hi, thank you for answering my call.

>> Sure. >> Um uh so I learned about Dave Ramsey last year and I've been following this debt snowball. Uh I paid off over $40,000 of credit cards, um cars, and wedding debt uh last year. But >> congratulations, man. >> Oh, thank you. >> Just by that.

>> Thank you. I only have two debt left, but uh these are really big. So, I have $180,000 of student loans and also $180,000 of mortgage. Uh they're both at 5.875%.

So, it's a bit of a marathon to pay these off, but um I did learn that my

family has a history of cancers like lung cancer, thyroid cancer. Uh my dad

actually went from seeing oncologist telling him that he doesn't have cancer to battling stage four uh lung and brain cancer a year later. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> It's okay. Uh but and also his cancer was all genetics. So um I guess my question is I'm a little bit scared or I guess I'm scared to death that something might happen to me before I finish this marathon, right? And I do want to leave something for my uh wife and daughter.

Um, I know Dave Ramsey wants uh he says

to like pay off all the debt besides the mortgage first. I just wanted to know uh because the federal student loans would potentially die with me if something happens to me. Uh so I just wanted to see if it's reasonable for me to uh

potentially pay off um my mortgage first

before my student loans.

>> Wow, that's actually you know what that's a good question. I will celebrate

that question. That's a that's a that's a interesting dilemma that you find yourself in, especially because the numbers are so >> like they're they're exact, right?

Interest rates, dollar amounts, exact.

Um, how much do you make a year?

>> I make $130,000.

Okay. >> Um, yeah, as a pharmacist.

>> Yeah. And how old are you?

>> I'm 28. >> Okay. What ages um did your family get diagnosed?

So, my dad got diagnosed when he was 50,

but I also have other family members that got diagnosed a lot sooner, like in their 40s and so on. >> Okay. Cuz my my hope and prayer is that you never get diagnosed, but also that if there was if this was to happen, this is a a decade or two or three from now.

>> And therefore, your student loans will be paid off if you stay at the pace you're you're going for. Would the student loans be paid off in four years?

>> Yeah, I hope so. I try my best here.

>> And then the mortgage is another 3 to four years as your income's probably up by then. >> Yes. >> So we're talking about seven years. You're completely debtree house and everything >> by 35.

>> So that's the kind of goals I would be setting um versus which one should I pay

off? I still feel like the debt snowball because of you probably have multiple student loans, right? It's not one giant one. >> Yes, that's correct. So freeing up those payments along the way makes me I'm I'm still team student loans, but I totally think your logic here is justified to to grapple with it. I assume you don't have term life insurance. Did you try or you did you not qualify?

>> Uh no, I haven't tried that yet. I actually just heard about that not too long ago. I was looking into >> today. Today >> go to xander.com and apply and be honest

with you know your health situation. And we're not asking to commit fraud here, but if you can get term life insurance, you have solved the problem of what happens if something happened to me? How would my wife pay the mortgage? Boom.

Problem solved. 10 to 12 times your income and term life insurance on a 15, 20 year policy will do the trick.

>> Yeah. It just uh it just makes me feel like I it gives my life a little bit of meaning if I were to like uh have left something behind, you know. >> Did Did your Did your dad pass away?

>> Uh not yet. He's still battling back cancer right now. >> So, I want you to remember what I'm about to say for the rest of your life. Okay. >> Okay. >> Are you a good husband?

>> I try to. >> Are you a good dad? >> I try my best to. Yes.

>> Then you've left something amazing.

>> Uh, thank you. >> And we have a uh what, no pun intended,

but we have a cancer in our culture, which is we ask somebody, "What are you worth?" And we answer that with a number. And I think that's insane.

>> It would be it would be amazing

to be 35, 38 and owe nobody anything and

have a paid for house for your family.

That would be awesome.

>> And the truth is you dug a $180,000 hole

for your family in pharmacy school. So I think you have a responsibility to knock that out.

>> Okay. >> Also, this is me playing devil's advocate all across the board. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> I also don't trust in 10 years that that's still going to be the case. At some point, the United States is going to have to deal with a $2 trillion hole that is student loans and they're going to have to deal with their 30 or 40 trillion deficit.

It would not surprise me in the least.

They've already made bank uh student loans not dischargeable by bankruptcy.

It would not surprise me if they stopped them dead on I mean that that they go away if you pass away.

Okay, that I have never even heard of that being a possibility. But here's what I'm trying to get you to do.

Projecting 10 years out on what might happen is is a good idea. But to drag 10 years

from now the crisis that might exist in 10 years and try to solve it in today, that is what we call that anxiety.

Right? And so the fact that you're a good husband, the fact that you're a good dad, you've been burning through this debt, getting your family taken care of, and you're on a trajectory in 7 to 10 years to owe nobody anything, including your home. That is a huge, huge win. And you have some signals that

you're going to pay attention to. So, you're going to be one of those guys like me that goes and gets cancer screenings every year. I'm going to pay extra close attention to my blood work and I'm watching the AI advancements on cancer detection close very closely and they're getting astonishingly good at catching stuff really really early. So I can imagine a world in 3 years and four years where you're able to know in 10

years and 15 years I've already got signs that we weren't able to detect.

Now, all that to say is if you're going to imagine the worst case scenario in 10 years, the honest thing is to also imagine the best case scenario and then

make informed choices in the present. Do you get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. Yes. >> And so, man, recognizing I have a

heightened risk of cancer because of the the set of genes that I got, that is you

being honest with reality and I'm going to take every responsible measure I can.

also not counting on the government to do a thing in 10 years. That's two elections from now, brother.

You tell me, right? Who knows, right?

So, I'm going to see that I I'm not going to rely on that either.

>> And I'm going to get really good life insurance with George and I both have with Xander. I was with Xander before I started working at Ramsay because I trust him, right? And I'm going to work really hard and get this stuff knocked out.

Okay. So, I suppose I will pay my student loans first. I >> I would. And here's here's one other variable.

>> What happens if and again, I'm I'm just being ridiculous now, but what happens if your pharmacy closes or sells?

>> If you have to move to Nebraska to do pharmacy there, the beauty of a pharmacy degree is you can do it anywhere, >> but that student loan's going to travel with you. Your mortgage won't, >> right? And so let's take care of the thing that's going to follow me around the longest and let's knock that sucker out and then let's get our house taken care of. But man, really great insightful question.

So your homework, one thing you do right right as soon as we're done with this call, go to xander.com. You're looking at one one and a half million in a term life policy, 20 to 25 years.

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Up next, we've got Courtney in Miami.

Courtney, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can John and I help?

>> Yeah, so I I have a question, I guess,

about what household contribution amount

should be. Um, so I've worked really hard. I paid off my student loans. I

bought a car in cash. I bought a house.

And I paid off the house. >> Whoa. >> Um, yeah. So, I' I've worked really hard. >> Congratulations. >> That's an understatement. >> I can't wait for the other side of this question. >> Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah. So, I guess the question is I am engaged. Um, there are

no plans right now for a wedding. We've

been together nine years, but we're we are together and committed to each other. Um, and I guess the question is

I've I've saved up enough to move to a more desirable area and I can buy that

new place in cash as well. And so what

is how how do you divide the bills like where you know yes you split utilities

and I know this is a weird situation like how what's the contribution you know obviously he he doesn't live with me for free but what what is that number and we just I I could use some help.

>> You're not going to like the help that we give you. >> So he's been living with you this whole time essentially.

>> Yes, we've been living together. How does it work now?

>> Uh, so he basically pays essentially

rent. He doesn't like the word rent, but you know, we split the utilities and the bills and it's he pays about, you know, splitting the utilities and then like $500, but we're moving to a much better

area. Uh, obviously, you know, the house is much more even though I'm paying for it. So, so I don't know how to divide it. >> Here's the thing. I have spent the last two years of my life down a dark dark

rabbit hole studying

uh romantic relationships. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> As long as you're his his uh landlord

>> Mhm. >> and as long as you're his bank, there is always going to be inequality in your romantic relationship.

>> Okay. >> There's no way around that.

Mhm. >> Even you saying he doesn't like the word rent. Of course not. Because it's a

daily reminder that y'all are unequally yolked.

>> And the more you talk about how hard

you've worked, you've been with him for a decade. So you you leading the question with how hard you've worked >> infers to two just random dudes you're calling he hasn't worked that hard.

>> Which is not the case.

>> I know. I know. But it's it's it's the posture with which you're entering into this. >> And so the reason that we tell everybody to get married is twofold. One, >> your individual stuff becomes y'all's stuff. And if you're not ready to do that, then you're then the romantic relationship you think you have is not what you think it is >> after nine freaking years. The other reason we tell people to get married besides the spiritual stuff like take the Sunday school stuff and move it aside is because there is a legal

separation baked into that. Meaning there is a contract you all sign.

>> There's some financial protection >> and you're protected.

And so I I I can't in good faith tell you to do this thing when I know the data and this is secular psychological data. I mean, economic data says if y'all get married and your stuff and his stuff becomes y'all's stuff, the it it's it ROIs in a spectacular way

because you have two people hanging on to the same anchor point and allows two people to take bigger swings at life with um with margin. But as long as he's

paying you rent and he's vinmoing you for the Arby's meal y'all split last night, it's always going to be yours and mine >> and making a romantic relationship work that way long term. Even Even the data says that cohabitating couples who live together over a long period of time, they don't do as well health-wise, financial wise, happiness-wise as those that say, "I'm all my chips are on the table. I'm all in." >> Yeah. And if you have hesitancy to go allin with him, >> I that's a huge flashing red sign for

me. Red flag as the as the kids say.

>> Okay. >> In your own words, why haven't you guys gotten married? Forget a wedding and all that. >> Well, yeah. So, there's I guess a past

with him. So, he was married before it didn't go well. Um there's some

financial stuff on his end. uh past addiction issues that I'm not I'm not ready to tie to.

>> Okay. >> And I don't know if I ever will be.

>> Okay. Then you need to have that conversation with them.

>> Cuz otherwise I mean I don't I'm trying not to be ugly, right? I'm trying to like be I'm know that I'm on your side. >> We are team Courtney. >> But but y'all are playing house, right?

>> Yeah. And and he knows, let me tell you, he knows in his nervous system that you're not allin.

>> Mhm. >> And that makes you more his mom than his than his fiance. That makes you more his landlord, addiction specialist than his wife. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to blame you for that. I want you to trust your gut, but I want you to trust your gut all the way in either direction. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's hard. But yes, >> it's real hard. Tell me, push back on me. Am I wrong?

>> No. No.

Yeah. No, you're right. I just I I think I'm thinking of it as like we are we are together but separate to an extent.

>> You have a you have a you have a great roommate with benefits.

>> I I don't think you should make this move until you've solved this piece.

>> Yeah. 100%.

And I'll tell you, I think you're worth being in love with somebody that you can go all in on. And honestly, I think he's worth that, too.

>> Yeah. >> And if you know right now, I'm never going to fully get there with him based on his past, based on the things that flare up now. He deserves that honesty

>> as opposed to a Vinmo reminder. You owe me $500 every month.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess this is a Yeah.

And I was I was approaching it of like, what's the dollar amount? We we disagree on the dollar amount. >> Yeah, I I call that >> that's the least of your problems. >> Yeah, I call those romantic proxy wars.

That's not the real issue.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Okay. Thank you. I Yeah.

>> And financially speaking, can George and I just both celebrate you? Amazing job.

>> Thank you. >> To do all this on your own is really impressive. >> Yeah. >> How old are you? >> Thank you. I'm 39.

>> Awesome. Well, please also don't have the sunk cost fallacy of, well, it's been 9 years. Like, this is all I know.

I basically grew up with this and now I just got to stay in it because it's easy and comfortable, which I'm sure it is.

And I'm sure he's a great guy.

>> But, >> yeah, absolutely. >> You guys both deserve if you're going to live another 50 years, let's do it with some intentionality and some commitment and build wealth together instead of having this, yeah, we're together, but not fully. I just don't think that's that that's a way to live life. Mhm.

>> And so I would solve for that before making the move. And I hope that if you do make the move, you guys are married on paper at the courthouse. You combine finances. There's >> somebody in my yard once.

They came over and my my daughter was like the flower girl. I mean, you you don't have to have a And we did it for free. Like you don't My manager took the photos. Like you don't have to do a big elaborate thing, right?

But there is legal protection there. And if there's a red flag you can't move past, it's okay to call that out and say, "Hey, it's been a great run of a decade, but I think we both deserve somebody that we can fully commit to." >> Yeah. Okay.

>> to give you the rent amount for.

>> I wish I could have been like, "Well, it should be 60% versus 40% based on the numerical." >> Man, we are funers.com today, George.

>> Oh, man. And I I mean, I am rooting for Courtney. >> So hard. I like Courtney as a person and

I want to see her win and I'm so proud of her. And the truth is she's proven to herself that she can build wealth regardless of the relationship and what's on the other side. But man, it's just so much more fun to do it with a true partner. >> A ride or die, dude.

Yeah. >> A ride or die. This is our money. This is our life.

This is our goals instead of Yeah. Well, we don't combine cuz I don't trust him to accomplish this financial goal that I have. >> Yeah. I trust you enough to live here and not murder me.

I trust you enough to fill in the blank, but I don't trust you to my checking account. >> All of me. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Oh, man. This is This is not one conversation. This is going to be a series of conversations, maybe even some counseling to get to the root of this, get to the fork in the road. >> Honestly, Courtney was so honest and and I mean, that's that's a brave thing she said. Like, I don't know that we need to get to the root. I think she's at the root. The hard part is am I going to take that next honest?

>> So scary. It's just like free falling into this next chapter. But you're worth it, Courtney. Thanks for the call.

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

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John is in New York City. Up next, John, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> I'm okay. Um, I'm calling with not the

most concerning financial issue, but something I'm torn about.

>> I could use a first world problem right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to decide if I should keep my pet insurance for my cat. the uh the monthly

premiums are going up from $70 to $105 a

month. >> Whoa. >> And uh I know I uh

>> you know I mean she's about 10 years old now. I got the insurance right when I got her and it was like relatively cheap. It was low. It's been steadily going up and you know last year when it went up to 70 that was that was a big jump. It went from maybe like 45 to 70 bucks and now it's 105.

>> Yeah. That's pricing in the pet insurance world.

>> Yeah. And you know, I've been paying this for years. And >> have you calculated how much you've paid out over the years?

>> I No. >> Between out-of- pocket cost plus the insurance. I'm guessing you'd throw up if you did.

>> I probably would.

I probably would. I' I've actually never the insurance. >> Yeah, exactly. >> You've never used it.

I I would love for you just for your own

emotional well-being just to map out how

for the last 10 years how much you've spent on pet insurance and what would

have to happen to a pet

to justify that cost.

>> Yeah. >> And by the way, George and I are split on this. We disagree on this. And so,

but I I like to just look at it just the math. And I know like I love my dogs a lot a lot. A lot. But just looking at

the math, does it play out?

>> Right. Right.

>> Or let me ask you another question. How much would you spend?

Like there's probably going to be a max, right? Is it 3,000 or 5,000 bucks max they would cover?

>> Uh the health insurance. >> Yeah. The pen insurance.

>> There's actually no cap.

>> Okay. So, they'll cover if it's a 20 grand surgery the cat needs, they'll cover it. >> 80% reimbursement.

>> Okay, that's the deal.

>> So, what is your Do you have a magic number that you would spend on a thing with the cat?

>> I mean, I can't see spending more than like

three grand for some. And even that, it's just it's it's a lot.

>> Yeah. for a 10-year-old cat, a $3,000 surgery, like and I would look into quality of life. Are you keeping that cat alive for you or for the cat? Right.

So, there's all those kind of questions I want to ask, >> right? >> Um what what's your financial picture look like? Do you have any debt? Do you have savings?

>> Yeah. No, financially, great. It's great. No debt. Got plenty of savings.

>> Okay. Great. >> So, you're self-insured as far as this cat goes. If something happened, you could fork over three grand if you chose to.

Yes. >> So the question is, is it worth paying now >> $1200 $1,300 a year for the just in case

to avoid paying potentially one grand, two grand, three grand? So that's where I go. I don't think this is worth it at this point. You're better off socking away 100 bucks in a savings account at this point to cover if something happened.

Maybe a scing fund for just pet needs in general, vet bills, all of that. Because as they get older, there's a higher chance there's going to be a vet visit, >> which is insurance companies never lose, right? So that's that's why they keep rise raising the premium. >> It's all about risk.

Their risk is higher as that pet gets older.

>> Yeah. >> Is this your only pet?

>> Yes. >> Are you single?

>> Uh I have a girlfriend. We live together. >> Okay. Does she like the cat?

>> Yeah, she does. as though that matters.

>> I think it matters. If she hates the cat, that's even more reason to cut the insurance. But I personally would, John, again, this is not a make or break for you. Now, if your pet had like a history of health issues that were costing you a lot of money and this insurance was a lifeline that was saving you a lot, u I would get rid of it.

Yeah, >> because the insurance it's like the house always wins and there are rare occasions where someone goes, "No, no, there was a one time where my dog needed a surgery and it actually really worked out." And so, it's more about peace of mind. And I think at this point with the age of your cat, at this point, just let it ride. And when things come up, cash flow it. And if you decide you don't want to cash flow it, then you let that ride.

And if it's the pet, you know, the cat's time, it's the cat's time. Because I have seen friends who they'll pour unlimited amounts of money to keep their their pets alive and I'm like man this is it's getting to a dark place where you're like to John's point.

>> Yeah, totally. I definitely don't want to be in that scenario, you know. Um yeah, I definitely don't see myself being in that scenario.

>> Yeah. And and here's the thing. Um there's been a lot of talk, uh Arthur Brooks has kind of led the charge here about the role suffering plays in our life.

I can count on one hand

the number of times I cried harder than when I put down when my dog got so sick and that was the end for her.

>> It was devastating. Like literally devastating to me. that that dog was my

my original ride or die. And

>> yeah, >> what I got on the back end of that hurt and that grief was, that's what commitment feels like and that's what love feels like and that's what deep relationship feels like. And sometimes we try to put these dollar amounts when it comes to your family. Yeah, dude. No question about it.

When it comes to our pets, it's like you enter into a short-term relationship and that thing looks to you for love and care and support and all that kind of stuff and it's amazing and awesome, but there's going to be grief on the back end of that. And sometimes there's people out there who want to sell us things and try to extend that or push that off or pretend it's not coming.

It's part of entering into a relationship with a pet, however hard that is to hear. And so preparing yourself for that emotionally, that day will come. Hopefully, it's a long time from now. Um, and then getting a number in your head. This is what I'm willing to invest in this pet of mine. And I've

always got to check myself and make sure I'm not my my pet isn't living miserably

so that I don't have to deal with this grief that's going to come.

>> Right. Right. >> That's a good word. So, John, what are you going to do? America wants to know.

I, you know, honestly, I think I knew what I should do, which is to cancel it, but I just sort of needed the uh needed somebody to tell me to do it, you know.

Um I I just Yeah, I know it's the logical thing. Um my my fe theory that

like I cancel and then like tomorrow or, you know, like in a couple weeks something does happen that isn't going to be like >> you go, "Dang it, why did I cancel it?

It would have covered this." >> I I I know. I feel like that's been how I felt the all 10 years I've had this insurance and now it's at 105 bucks a month. >> And that's the sunk cost fallacy. You're like, I've already put this much in, I might as well keep going, right?

>> Yeah. There's a real like mental component to this. >> Yeah. Yeah. It is more mental than financial. And that's the the hard part to grapple with. >> Or it's not mental, it's emotional, right? >> Yeah. And the the financial part, well, let's talk about insurance for a second. The whole point of insurance is to transfer risk. So you can't bear the

burden of your a house fire taking your house and now you got to replace it. So we get homeowners insurance. And so that's the point of insurance. And at one point you're self-insured or the risk is so low and the insurance companies will just know, hey, we're going to make money on this because the risk is so low.

And pet insurance definitely falls into that category. And there's been a change in the last decade, John, where people just care about their pets more than our parents' generation. >> Well, we're getting lonier and lonier as people. We're not getting married, but we have our dogs.

>> Pets are feeling that that gap of human disconnection. >> Yeah. >> Or we we don't want the burden of kids and paying for kids, but we'll get a dog. >> Yeah.

Or we don't want the burden of leaving our house to go meet strangers to become friends. And so I got a I got a dog that will come in and love me. >> Yep. And this I mean this is speaking to my heart as a guy who's who gave more money to the emergency vet than I have given to any one place in my life.

could have furnished my house with the amount I I helped them get a second home, I think. So they love us, but French bulldogs, as I've told you, John, are born broken. So we kind of knew going into it, you're kind of picking up a project here. I should have got a dog from the pound. No issues.

>> Very expensive project. >> Dog from the rescue never has any issues. They live to be a thousand happy, healthy. These purebred dogs, man, they'll get you. So hug your pets today, guys.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney.

Open phones at8825-55225.

Our scripture of the day, Titus 27, and

8. In everything, set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching, show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned. So that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us. I like that. Be above reproach. Warren Buffett said, "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and 5 minutes to ruin it." If you think about that, you'll do things differently.

Amen. Kelsey is in Atlanta up next.

What's going on, Kelsey?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can John and I help?

Yeah. So, I am currently leasing a vehicle and I am so excited to get done

with it. Um, my plan was to buy a beater

car once the lease is up, but I am I

have another 11 months to go on it. I'm currently $5,000 5,000 miles over

already what I'm supposed to be.

>> What are they dinging you for that? What's the fee? >> It's 25 cents a mile. So, by the time I

figured on average how much Yes. on average how much I drive, >> by the time I turn it in, I'm looking at an extra $5,000 I would pay for the

overage on the mileage. So, my question is, should I go ahead and buy a beater car right now? I'm thinking in the range of $5,000 to $6,000 and go ahead and park my leased vehicle. Go ahead and

just let that ride out and then I'll have pretty much I'm I'm allocating my

money to spending it on a beater now instead of giving it to a dealer at the end of the lease. Does would that make sense? >> H that's a great question. Could you go buy the car outright? >> Yeah. What's the the early buy out amount? >> I could. It would be a little north of $40,000. >> Goodness gracious. What are you driving >> right now? It is worth 29.

It is an EV and so it's depreciated immensely.

>> Ouch. So you'd have to pay 40 to get it,

but then if you sold it, you're 11 grand underwater.

>> Correct. >> Immediately. >> Wait, there there's they're charging you 25 cents a mile on an EV?

>> Yes.

That should be illegal. That should be >> Okay. What EV is this? What's the make, model, and year? >> It's It's a Volvo C40

Recharge, and it's a 2024.

>> O, all right. I'd probably put this in the stupid tax category, but you're saying, "Hey, instead of paying five grand in penalties, cuz you're going to continue to go over the mileage based on your commute." >> Absolutely. Yes. >> You're saying just park it. I'd rather just use that five grand to get me a beater car so that when all said and done, at least I I have a working vehicle.

>> Yes, that's kind of where my mind's at.

Of course, it kind of it breaks my brain a little bit to have two vehicles at the same time, but circumstantially, this is kind of where I'm at. >> Yeah, I mean, that is a pretty wild solution, but it's it makes sense in my head. And I'm I'm trying to think if there's other scenarios. I'm trying to go through like what are all the options and then what's the one that sucks the least? Have you talked to the dealer about this?

>> So, I haven't talked to them about this scenario specifically. I have looked to see if I'd be able to have someone else take it over and they will not allow that. >> Okay. >> Um, by the time I termin

I don't know the fee to be honest. I haven't looked at it because I'm just assuming it's so unreasonable.

>> So, I could look into that.

>> That's probably a great assumption.

Gosh, I still can't get over like on a on a on

an engine, a gas powered engine, there's

going to be wear and tear that's unique and different than on a on an EV. I just can't believe they're charging you 25 cents a mile. That's >> Yeah. >> Whenever I think they can't get worse, they get worse. It's impressive, >> right? >> Leases are definitely my least favorite way to uh have a ve I was going to say own a vehicle, but you don't even own it. You're just renting expensively.

What's your lease payment? >> It burns even more.

>> It's $663 a month.

>> So, you're going to have to pay that for 11 more months while it's just parked.

>> I'll have to pay it for 11 more months while it's parked. >> I would try to level with them at the dealership. Not that they're competent, nice people, but I would explain the situation. Say, "Hey, listen. If I buy it out, I'm 11 grand under day one after already forking over 40 grand that I assume you don't have in cash right now." >> Correct. The other option is the

termination, which I would find out what the early lease termination fees are in case this

is a wild in case in case it's the cheapest option, the cheap the lowest amount of stupid tax you could pay to get out of this thing since they won't let you do a lease transfer.

>> Uh because the buyout is not an option.

And so therefore, you might at least then sort of get rid of the other options to go, okay, my best option is to just hang on to it, pay it, keep stay under the the mileage, and save up for a beater car in the meantime.

>> Do you have do you have 29 grand? Do you have 30 grand to buy it from him?

>> I do not. >> Okay. >> How much do you have?

So, right now I have $6,000 and that is

a sinking fund knowing that I am going to potentially have to pay that in fees when I turn it in. And I'm I'm like very

aggressively paying down student debt.

So, I just don't have that that cash on me. >> No, that's great. >> What do you make? What do you make a month?

>> Um $6,584.

>> Okay. I love the specificity. That's great. And what other debts do you have?

So, I've got a student loan and that is

$21,844.

>> And that's it. Student loan and the lease. >> Yes. >> Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it's going to be hard to to do both to chip away at the student loan debt, pay the lease payment, save up for the beater car, but I like the idea of limiting the damage and fees we're paying on this lease at least if you do nothing else. And then I would see what your options are with the dealer.

>> But my guess is it's pretty ironclad.

>> I mean, you signed the contract, here's the fine print, and they're going to say, "Deal with it." >> Right. Yeah. And I I'm definitely going to take your advice to see if there's any way I can have some wiggle room that I just am assuming I don't have right now. But if if that is not an option,

would you suggest I just park it and drive a beater? >> Yeah. The math says that might be the best option. >> That's the wild part. As much as it hurts your soul to pay 660 bucks >> for parking a car.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. >> I mean, it's already it's already hurting my soul, I'm like, if this can minimize the damage, I'm I'm all game.

Well, the good news is you'll never lease a car again.

>> Oh, you you better bet. >> So, that might have been worth all the fees in the world if it means uh you're avoiding a bad money decision. So, I'm rooting for you. You're you're going to survive it and it'll be a fun story you tell your kids one day. >> Kelsey, give America who's listening,

>> give them your opinion on the lease

>> on on someone's sitting there like, I don't want to buy a car. I want to go lease it. >> What would you say? This is your opportunity for a commercial.

>> It is the most financially irresponsible way you could possibly operate and quote unquote not own a vehicle. Do not do it to yourself.

>> Thank you for that. Very helpful.

>> Appreciate the call. And it's a good reminder on leases, John. So, a car lease, people say, "Well, John, it's not debt technically. There's no like loan.

It's just a contract where I have to pay this amount and there's no way out of it forever." If that's what you want to tell yourself that it's not debt even though there's a monthly payment attached that you have to pay. I'm going to call it a loose loosely a form of debt and the depreciation is built right into your lease payment.

>> So you're paying the most expensive part of depreciation to the dealer.

>> Well, and so think about I always like to ask myself who's getting rich, right?

It's the reason I quit using airline miles. And you and I've talked about this off air, but like I remember um

getting a credit card with a ton of miles on it cuz I had to make a huge purchase that I was going to immediately get reimbured for. And I remember thinking, "Hey, they're not my this company's not my friends. Who's paying for these flights I'm getting or these hotel points?" And it was people who

found themselves in financial straits are having to pay. And I was like, "I don't want single moms who are struggling to put food on their table to pay for my free flights. I'm out of this program. So, that is what got me inspired to say, who's getting rich off what I'm doing next. And the lease is

one of the greatest inventions for a car company. They get a brand new car, they give it to you for 2 years, you give them, you basically buy down all of their depreciation, you give the car back to them, they have a gently used car that they have contractually kept.

>> Now, they can sell that, still make a profit. They still they sell a gently used car that's got very low miles that's perfect with no depreciation on it because you've paid it, right?

>> It's brutal. Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 134. Short-Term Sacrifice Leads to Long-Term Financial Freedom | May 19, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour and bestselling author George Camel.

>> We're pregaming cuz we're actually filming Smart Money Happy Hour right after the show. >> After the show. That's right. We usually do episodes. We tape them on Mondays and when we get to host together, it's it's the best. Four hours with Rachel Cruz.

That's a blessing. >> What a gift. Let's help some people. >> You're welcome. You are welcome.

>> All right. Give us a call at 888255225.

And we're gonna start off with James in Denver, Colorado. Hi James. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

I appreciate it. How are you doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. Thanks so much for calling in. How can we help?

>> Yeah. So, um I guess my question I'm 33.

I've been very diligent about saving since junior high. Um, I finally crossed

the millionaire, I guess, threshold.

>> Nice. >> Congratulations. >> About to buy a house cash. Thank you.

>> Wow. >> Um, mainly because, well, yeah, I just don't want to don't want to have a mortgage.

Um, rates are a little bit higher and I I could probably make more money having a mortgage and leaving it invested, but just to sleep a little better at night.

So, going to do that. Um, I have quite a

bit set aside as far as brokerage, Roth, traditional. Um, but my my ultimate goal

is to kind of quote unquote retire

early. Um, not to be done working, but just with a traditional job. Um, do

things I'm a little bit more passionate about. I do some public speaking. I have a very unique situation. I'm quite disabled, I guess. I I'm still working full-time. Um, but I do some public speaking and trying to figure out when I can kind of step away from a traditional job, rely on my investments, and the

little bit of income that comes in outside of that. I think that with what I'm doing, it's going to grow and provide a higher income later, um, it's

just not at the moment. So, just trying to figure out that kind of freedom number. >> Cool. How much do you have right now in that brokerage account?

uh 435,000.

>> Awesome. And you said you're 33. So

you've got a ways to go before accessing those retirement accounts. So that that brokerage account is that bridge to fund the gap. And so I would continue putting money into that. Now, when can you officially use that to cover your life?

Well, there's about a thousand variables that, you know, we don't have access to right now. We don't know the future, but you know, you want enough in there that you could pull a percentage off of it and you're not going to run out before accessing those retirement funds, especially if you know you might have a gap in income for a couple years as you get this new thing off the ground. Right. >> Right.

I think very conservatively I could do it off of 30 to 40,000 a year. I I would

like much more than that. >> Yeah, I was going to say like like an like like an actual because I would want this situation for you, James, to be realistic like I that is one thing kind of about not that you were quoting the fire movement by any means, but but that idea that like I'm going to live on nothing. I'm going to save where I can so I just so I can retire and then your standard of living is just so low that there's almost like >> your quality of life suffers. >> Yeah.

No enjoyment, right?

life I would want to live comfortably and good. Nothing crazy extravagant, but definitely like I don't have to be thinking too much about money because I have enough. What would what would that number be then?

>> I know 60 to 80 would do that because on 80,000 income now I'm saving close to

45,000 a year.

So, I I know that I could do that. I would like to have nicer things and do >> sure >> more, but if I had to, you know, live

Yeah. Yeah. If I had to live on rice and beans or continue to, I can.

>> Yep. >> Um, so I would say 60 to 80,000 would be a pretty comfortable number where I know

>> Yeah. when I'm not saving an additional 40,000 in a a year.

>> And you you said you had some income coming in. Was that from disability?

>> No, I'm I'm employed full-time.

>> Okay. And what do you make now?

>> 80,000 probably 10 bonus and maybe

20,000 with what I do on the side.

>> Cool. And you're single?

>> Yeah. Okay. >> No kids. >> All right. Do you have plans on the horizon to maybe get married one day?

>> Well, it's not looking like it. I

um if it happens, it happens. It's

nothing nothing in the pipeline.

>> Okay. I'm just trying to factor in your long-term future. And I have seen a lot of these the fire guys out there, they sort of go, well, getting married and having kids is actually a deterrent to my financial plan. I go, well, your life sucks if family is a deterrent to your financial plan. So, I just want to make sure that you were thinking bigger in terms of your life in general, not just with the dollars. But based on what you told me, I mean, one half million in

that brokerage account would definitely find you. >> 1.6. >> Look at that. >> Look at that, George. Great minds think alike. >> That's just a gut. That's just if you had to aim at something, I would aim at one and a half. And with your income, you'd probably get there in the next, my guess is, >> I don't know, 10 years.

>> Yeah. >> Does that sound accurate?

>> That's exactly what I had figured. Um, so I'm pretending like I have a 15-year mortgage and I'm paying myself into the brokerage 1,500 a month.

>> Fantastic. And so, so I kind of figured

Yeah, I kind of fig kind of figured 10 years. Um, if I get real aggressive, I'm

I'm hoping to do it in five.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, >> yeah. And you might be able to. And honestly, James, your income might be going up more, right, throughout these years and everything.

So, you may hit it, you may hit it earlier. Um, >> but I do I think that's a great next goal, especially for people when my husband and I, we literally had this same conversation. I think I was telling you about this >> at the beginning of the year. Um just looking at like kind of our next big financial goal because we put in a pool two years ago which was like a big thing we saved for and then it's like okay what's like the next thing?

Yeah. And there's kind of this like crap hit the fan number. >> The freedom number. >> The freedom number.

You call it the freedom. I don't know. Kind of like crap hit the fan. I don't know.

Everything just goes and you're like what can I do that I could just walk away and I could still enjoy my life.

ran that out and that's our goal. And so we Yeah. So we're shooting for that. And so James, I think that's great. Especially you'll be on baby step seven.

You won't have a mortgage, which is insane that you paid cash for your house. Uh, maxing out investments, the non-retirement. >> So, I mean, just so smart. And again, don't feel like you have to deprive yourself completely. Enjoy your life now for the in the next 10 years. Have some fun. >> Go on a date. Go on vacation.

>> Yes. Enjoy some of it.

>> But yeah, but that's kind of a ne that's a really great next step, especially for people out there who are in baby step seven, I think, is to have that number.

Oh, and I want to encourage James as well to not wait 10 years to go pursue the thing he wants to do. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Do it now. Unless you sign some sort of non-compete that says you can't go public speak.

I would just make that your side hustle and eventually what might happen is it overtakes your income. >> That's right. >> Over time, and then you decide to leave three years from now and go do your thing full-time. Cuz what breaks my heart is the fire people out there, they go, "Well, I'm going to go do something I'm passionate about one day." >> I'm like, "Well, just do it today.

Go do the encore career now instead of when you're 55, >> right? And >> exhausted. >> And especially if you know you're miserable in it. Like I think there are some people that are wired more of like, hey, I have a great job.

It's not like quote unquote my passion, but I'm really good at it. I get paid a lot and so I get to like use that money to, you know, have a great life. I think there's some of that people and I think there are some that are like, no, I want to do what I love. But then sometimes they're broke when they do what they love all the time.

And you're like, well, you have to make money and survive. So it is it's that like beautiful point of what are you good at? What are you passionate about? And how can you create a great life around that?

That's like the career just like mwah. >> And he might be able to do that in the next year. >> Sex kiss.

>> I don't know if the kids say that, but >> is that right? And that >> I like it.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the bread winner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.

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Up next, we have John in Pennsylvania.

Hi, John. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey you guys. Uh, how are you?

>> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Hey. Um, wow, this is crazy. Sorry. Um, so I have um a short question. Uh, look,

very short story behind it. Um, so my wife and I, um, we're I'm 31. She's

almost 30. Um, but don't tell her I told you that. Um, >> and we would never we would never.

>> The the the only debt we have other than

our house, um, is like 10 grand left on a car loan. Um, and that's it. That we

realistically could pay off pretty shortly if we just, uh, rice and beans it. Um, but my question is, uh, so I

have a a guitar that I bought for a

couple thousand dollar like 10 years ago that is like pretty rare, one of one.

And um someone recently offered me $12,000 for it, which is pretty nuts. Um

and I'm I'm just less sentimental uh than I used to be. And I'm wondering if I should just get rid of this thing while I have like the highest bidder or or if I should keep it as like an asset.

Um yeah, that's kind of where my thoughts are right now. Just trying to figure out the right next move.

>> Wow. >> So you bought it for a couple grand, now it's worth 12. You got 10K in debt.

You're like, I could sell the guitar, be completely debtree today with two grand left over, >> but you'll be guitarless and that will make you sad, >> right? >> You like, did I make a dumb move? This could have been worth 20 if I waited.

Because it sounds like you're looking at it as an investment/asset and it's less so this was my grandpa's guitar. >> Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Is it is the sentimental value it's not really there as much as what is what you said?

It is more you see it like what George just painted of like hey I could get some money out of this.

>> Yeah. I I bought it from like a from like an artist like a like a musician.

So it's not really like dad or anything like that. Um >> so >> is that where the value is because the artist owned it?

So, it it was owned by um I the the

guitar is the it's a Gibson um signature

model of a uh famous like punk rock

guitar player uh from the band Blink 182. >> Oh my god. >> Oh, George. >> I was like, it can't be it can't be Blink192.

>> I think there's a person in this building who might buy that. Maybe at this desk >> you might be getting an offer of >> that is pretty >> $12,0001 after this show uh from someone

sitting here. >> That's pretty cool. >> I am I I was a little sad that John wasn't on but also glad because he would immediately say no don't sell it. He would be a little more >> B. You're talking to the guy who told someone to sell a horse. So I you know I'm never above selling a guitar to get out of debt. But your numbers here like you're going to become debtree pretty fast. How many more months until you guys are completely debtree if you go hard at this?

If we really went hard at it, like maybe six months at the most, really.

>> Okay. So, after six months, you're debtree. Let's say you have the emergency fund. Another three or four months after that, would you still consider selling the guitar just to have the extra cash or would you say, "No, I'm going to hang on to it forever." >> Yeah. If there was no debt, what would you do with it?

>> Yeah, I feel like I would hold on to it because I could always make another $12,000, but I could probably never get this again.

>> I I think I would hold on to it.

>> Yeah. I I don't think it's on nothing's on fire here. If you were like 150 grand in debt and you guys made 40 >> or this was going to clear some a lot of pain in your life, but it sounds like you guys are on track to do this without really, you know, affecting your life right now. So, I would say hang on to it. >> How much do you guys make a year?

>> Uh, so I'm self-employed. My wife works part-time as a nurse. We have a couple of kids. Uh, we're uh around 100 to 125,

which I know it's a big window. probably probably like 110,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Well, my question is why aren't we knocking this debt out sooner? >> Yeah. >> I would put some gas on this other >> three to four versus six.

>> Yeah. Yeah, we we definitely could. I knew that question was was coming. We we just started uh every dollar.

So, we're >> Oh, good. >> So, here's my caveat. If you pay off the car in 90 days, you get to keep the guitar. >> How about that?

>> Okay, deal. >> Pay it off in three days. >> Boom. I see.

I like I don't know why there's something about being human. And I just need to dangle the carrot and put some gas on my financial plan. And I think that helps me go, if I want to keep this guitar, I've got to go a little harder at this. >> Yeah.

And it's 10 grand.

You know what I mean? Something like crazy antique car. Like if it made a huge dent, I feel like I'd be more up to like get rid of it. >> Or if you were just in a dumpster fire situation. >> Yes. And it was like you got to clear everything. Nothing counts anymore in life except for this. But >> but on the spectrum of dumpster fire to Okay. >> That's right. That's right. >> You guys are much closer to Okay.

>> Yep. So, uh I think I'd keep it, John.

Yeah. >> Oh, man. >> So good. >> That was a great concert. John and I went to that concert. >> I know. >> We had a great time. It healed my inner child just like Backstreet Boys did for me. >> Healed me. I know. Music is magical. All right, let's go to Holly in Charleston, West Virginia. Hi, Holly. Welcome to the show. >> Rachel, it's so good to talk to you.

>> Oh, thanks Holly. George is not here.

Just me. >> I'm just honored to speak to the both of you today. I've been so excited about trying to call all day and I finally got through. >> Um so glad >> the Lord willed it.

>> That's he did. Amen to that. Um so here's guys in the situation. Um, I have

mental health concerns that um have not

forced but coerced me to stop working

and do intensive intensive therapy and

because of that I'm not working but I have a family member who sends me $1,500

a month and I was wondering would that be would it be possible to start the Ramsey plan with a fixed income?

um with that small of an income in your situation, I'd probably say not right now. I think I would get into a place um

mentally where you are you you are able to engage the world in a sense of like that you are healthy enough to start working, have a job,

right? And and all of that to in order to really probably go at this. Um because how much how much consumer debt do you have?

uh give or take a little bit. I think about five 5k. So, it's not bad. I actually have a vacancy from several years ago, but right now I only have probably not even 5,000. Um but I do have some enough enough to make me a little bit concerned, but not terrible.

>> Yeah, it's 5,000. Is it credit card debt? What kind of debt is it?

>> Uh no, ma'am. It is medical and then a

tuition bill from the school I stopped attending. And then um two

uh it was for uh Verizon and T-Mobile.

They're uh >> some phones. >> When I stopped my contract, they had a final bill. So >> Okay. >> Um I just haven't been able to pay it yet. >> Yeah. Um how much is your expenses every month? >> Because how are I'm just wondering how you're going to live on 1500.

>> Yeah. In West Virginia, as you can probably guess, living cost of living is lower than most places. Um my my rent is

700. My um my electric is about 120 a

month and then my cell phone my Wi-Fi is 50 a month and then my cell phone is 45 a month. Um I don't have to pay for water sewer trash, none of that. But um that's basically where I'm at. I'm left with maybe $500, >> okay, >> left over the month and I have to spend that on groceries.

So I'm really am in a pickle. >> But I am very grateful.

>> Are you paying for that on your own?

>> Uh Medicaid Medicaid. Okay. And is there an end date, Holly, to that program that you know that you know is it is it like a 90-day or a six-month or a 30-day?

>> The one that I had a referral to. I just finished one that was 90 days. I finished it, got a certificate, made me very proud of myself. I stuck with it.

Yeah. And then they referred me to they referred me to another one that's 12 months long. So >> Oh, wow. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's not even for sure that I got into that app to have a bunch of consults and a bunch of tests and things like that before they even accept me. So, I'm just kind of hoping they hoping I get into it, but no guarantees yet >> and waiting. Okay. Yeah. So, I think um

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. From the I think from the financial perspective, I think my goal would be not getting into any more debt,

staying current on all your bills so you don't get behind, and then make maybe making some small goals towards paying

some of this off. Um, you >> might be able to negotiate that medical debt even with the little bit you have in savings. Say, "This is all I have.

Will you take it?" Yeah, because if you can get some traction a little bit, um,

even if it's a couple hundred bucks extra a month that you kind of work your way in that smallest debt, that actually may give you some level of, you know, good energy, right, of some confidence.

Yeah. Of what you're doing. But, um, but yeah, I would I would take care of yourself, Holly. Get yourself in a good place. And it sounds like you're doing that.

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All right, let's go to John in Salt Lake City. Hi, John. Welcome to the show.

>> Rachel, hi George. Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, I have my wife and I, we have a lot

of concerns, but I I can narrow this down to uh one or two. Uh, at this

point, we're 53 and 54 years old. Uh,

late bloomers as far as creating a a good income. and we've developed uh we've collected a lot of debt.

>> Okay. >> Uh my wife graduated from law school not too long ago after dropping out of high school. She went back to school and got her law degree. Um uh we, you know, accumulated a lot of debt there. Um about 215,000

220,000. >> Oo. Okay.

>> Uh that's just the beginning. Um,

uh, we have a home that's we owe 365 on

and it's worth somewhere in the mid4s,

uh, maybe a little higher than that. Um, we have a lot of other debt that we've accumulated over the years. Um, so other

than the school loans and the house,

probably another um 150,000.

>> Are there cars in there? looking at >> uh there's only one car um sitting there

right now. It's about five grand left.

And that's the thing that got me calling you guys cuz I had the urge when I

looked at that uh amount that was owed.

I was like, "Hey, it's worth more than that and I can go trade it in and get another car." And then I was like, "What are you stupid? Um you want to get another payment?" And uh and so I

decided not to do that and start looking back into the Ramsay uh program.

and it's brought me here after a couple of weeks. Um, my wife's not quite on board with me yet because although she's got that attorney job, she it's only been a a prosecutor's pay, which is less

than what I make at uh as a manager at a warehouse club.

>> Um, >> what's your household income today?

>> Net um we make almost 10,000 a month. is

after that is our take-home but that is after all the insurance I mean I max out everything on my on my paycheck really because >> um because um insurance I I've up till now up till

recently I was investing 1,200 a month

into my 401k um but I stopped that because I'm going to start putting it toward debt >> good >> um I've already maxed out the for this year I've already maxed out my 401k match and my company does a a gratuitous

6% on top of that. So, um I'm letting

them add to my 401k from here on until

until debt gets cleared up.

>> The questions I have are are twofold

really.

>> Do I um do we need to sell the home?

>> Uh do we have to do that? We're we're living in a home that's quite frankly too big for us, but we we bought it. It was our first home we bought three years ago >> and we wanted to have enough room for our family, our kids and grandkids to come over. >> What's your mortgage with us?

But >> uh 2600 >> that's right in line with our 25% parameter. >> So it's it's not going to it's >> real close. >> You'll have like 70 grand in equity maybe if you're lucky. Maybe 50 net after fees to throw at your 370 in consumer debt.

So that's where I'm doing the math here going. You guys bring home 120, you got 370 in debt.

>> I'm still trying to collect all the data cuz we have not done a good job obviously of of controlling our spending. We we pull out a card and we spend and we don't pay attention. We go, hey, we still got money in our account.

>> Mhm. >> Um and that's how we live and we've been living, you know, according to payments and not according to debt. Um you know, what what can we spend each month? So,

the other thing is, you know, my wife's not on on track with this yet because

with her job, she has got an ethical issue at work. Um, she could be suing her employer. >> Um, and and possibly not

>> suing a law firm. That feels fun.

>> Yeah. Suing the county.

>> Okay. >> Suing the county that she works for. um because because there are there are questions in there um ADA um you know

disabilities act that that they're not uh they're not um following through with and also um questionable practices um

that put my wife's law um

>> her her law degree or her her bar

>> status in question. My question about her, >> just real quickly, >> does she see another path of making a ton more money in the next five years with this degree that she paid $220,000 for?

>> Quite possibly. But but right now she

like I try to talk to her about this stuff and she says I am 100% focused on

on trying to figure this thing out at work. Um so the conversations just

aren't happening. I am ready and rearing to go. I will go live in a trailer in a I'll go live in an RV if I have done you're so done with all this >> wherever I need to. My wife's not there yet.

And that I knew that that was the biggest key. So, you know, I called I called ELPs >> um to talk to them and I was looking specifically for somebody who could be a financial adviser and a financial counselor.

>> Sure. Do you guys work together, John, about money? like in the past like I'm not talking about the last six months. >> We ignore it. >> We ignore it and we flip flop. When one gets when one gets fired up, the other one's not. >> Yep. >> And and so we flip-flop through that a lot. >> Yes. Your whole time. Okay. So that's been the pattern for I mean, how long have you guys been married?

>> 31 years. >> Okay. So breaking a pattern of financial

habits and marital habits with money,

it's hard to do in a in a really quick way, right? you've hit your emotional breaking point, which was why this makes it easy. We call it the I've had it moment here at Ramsay. People do exactly what you do.

They wake up one day and because of one small situation or a crisis, they're like, "Holy crap, I'm done." Like you just, like you said, like, I I will go live in a trailer. I'll do whatever I have to do to get out of this. Um, and she may not have to hit it to that extreme, but that's, you know, obviously that's why you're wanting to change is because you have hit that moment. And so to expect her to flip a switch automatically with you, um, obviously probably from a relational standpoint is not realistic, but like you said, it is needed.

her to feel the weight of what you're

carrying because as as her husband, you

have felt a massive level of now responsibility, a massive level of stress and anxiety

around this that you want free from. And so what can you all do as a partnership?

Even if she's not to that point, my my

prayer is that she can come around you as your as her husband to say, "Okay, I have a lot of stress at work, John. You got to give me 14 days just to kind of get a plan in place and then my head will be clear and then we can move forward." She can't live in the clouds, right, about money for the rest of her life. So, I almost would have some kind of like, hey, >> I'll give you some grace right now, but it's kind of on fire, our situation.

and address what we're going to do. What if this drags out for 2 years as you guys get foreclosed on cuz you can't keep up with your payments?

>> It's going to become her problem even if it's not right now. And the napkin math, John, to help you, let me just show you this. If you pay 2,000 a month toward your debts, it's going to take you 15 years. >> Yeah, >> that's 2,000 a month. That's probably money you don't have right now to throw at all those debts. >> And so >> we act I think we actually do.

>> How much can you throw at it? Because if you can do 7K, 8K, now we're talking 3 to four years. Well, because you stopped the 1,200 of your 401k, so you can add that and then any level expenses that you can cut. You could probably cut another three, right?

>> I would make it a goal to be out of this thing in in less than four years. And that's going to take 8K a month getting thrown at this debt, which means upping the income and maybe selling the house is just part of that game plan to clear some of it, >> working extra and all of it. Yeah. Um, yeah, you guys do have that long road ahead.

And getting her on the same page and you guys talking about this is get is going to be a big part, right? You can't cut $3,000 out of a budget you used to spend without your spouse really being on board. Um, and so her sitting down and you guys creating a plan together is going to be crucial.

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Next up we have Joe in Indianapolis. Hi Joe. Welcome to the show. Hey Rachel.

Hey George. How you guys doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. Yeah, it's a blessing to talk to you. Um, I'll keep it brief here. So, I actually get married in 12 days. Um, and

Congrats. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a long engagement about two years.

So, we are more than than ready. Um, but

we're going to be obviously uh combining finances and kind of tackling debt. So, I would just like some some wisdom and experience from you guys and how to just set ourselves up uh the the best we can financially heading into this new chapter. >> Love it. And you both are on the same page that we're doing this.

>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. >> It's about to be our debt, our income.

>> Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely.

>> That's great. >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're 25. >> Okay, great. And how much debt will you guys have combined going in?

Um so and I I just bought a house last

year. So um consumer debt I have about

175. Um that is a student loan and

medical and then she uh is she's will be

a chiropractor. So she has about 190 of

student debt that she'll be bringing in and that's all that we'll have.

>> Okay. And how much you guys will you be making do you think? Or is she is she just graduating school or is she working? She she's just graduating, so she we think that she'll probably make about a h 100,000. Um talking to the the chiropractors at the office that she's uh essentially doing her clinicals at right now where she will be working.

>> And then I'm self I'm self-employed. Uh and I've only been working full-time in the workforce for two years now. Um last year I made about 181,000 and I'm I'm on

track to do that this uh year as well.

>> Good for you guys. Amazing. that great

income is going to help because you're now you're going to be making 281 trying to pay down 207. And so you got a big a big pile here, but you got a big shovel to clean it. And so the goal is combine the income into one bank account. What my wife and I did is I had a checking and I just made it a joint checking, added her, and then we shut hers down.

>> It was that simple. So, a joint checking, a joint savings, and use any any money you guys have, any savings, money from the wedding that isn't used for the honeymoon or whatever to get your life started, and start throwing that at the debt. And then stay on a budget and keep living like you're broke. Don't get high on the hog just because she's working making 100 grand now.

Keep living like broke college students and just throw every cent at this debt until it's gone. >> Yeah, it's wild.

account, personal savings. Um, and I I think I know the answer to this, but should I write a check for 175 today and just pay everything off? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And then write another huge check once you guys are back from the honeymoon and clear a bunch of these debts.

>> Okay. That's what I was thinking. >> What's the money for? The 150.

>> Uh, that's it's not for anything really.

It's just what I've saved up working the last two years and yeah, it's just accumulating in my account.

>> So, do you have are you going to have a hard time letting go of all of that to pay down her debt? Uh, you know, I think when I first started making like I was a broke college student, first started making like quote unquote like real money, right, in in the adult life. I think at first, like probably four years ago, three years ago, I was a little bit hesitant, but I'm more than willing and wanting to just start, you know, from a clean slate. So, I am willing.

Yes, >> I love it. Well, if you use that now, you're down to 74,000 left to pay off, making 281. And now we're done in a year. >> Sounds a lot better.

And guess what? You're going to be able to build some serious wealth making 281 with no payments for the rest of your life, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Saving up 150 grand, that's a lot of money, but you'll do it pretty quick with no debt payments.

>> Yeah, I like that. It's much easier to hear that from, you know, from somebody with your experience. So, >> it's what I would do if I was in your shoes. So, it's not just like, well, it's what the Ramsay plan says. It's what I would do is clean up the debt as fast as possible with all the assets you guys have. >> Yes. I mean, that's what's crazy. If you have $150,000 saved that Yeah. and 200.

I mean, yeah, it's 50 grand. And if you guys made it an aggressive goal to say, "Hey, let's pay this off in six months, right?" What's wild to think about, Joe, is >> Yeah. I mean, we can talk about the debt payments, but in six months, that's that's going to be, you know, in your rearview mirror. It's going to be more now going forward for the rest of your lives.

And hey, how do we set this up well between two people who you will learn very quickly that your wife is not you and you guys are going to have >> opposite uh tendencies with money. You know, you both may grow up in different backgrounds when it comes to money.

And so what I would say from a relational side is to see your spouse as

a strength and for her to do the same to you because opposites attract and sometimes that can actually create the create friction and tension and conflict. But when you can actually pause and say, "Hey, actually what they're bringing to the tables, I think I'm probably worse at so I'm going to lean on their strength in this area and vice versa." Right. Um so there's going to be those relational dynamics. Yeah.

you guys will be working through throughout all of marriage, but you're going to get good at it. And my prayer is that as you guys follow the baby steps and you get out of this debt, you guys save up an emergency fund, you start investing in retirement, y'all are 25. You can start all of this in the next go year. >> That is so wild to me. >> It's going to be crazy like what you guys are going to build. So have goals.

Have really big goals of saying, "Hey, let's yeah, let's pay off the house.

Let's um go on this trip." And maybe it's a generosity play of like, yeah, maybe like we have parents that could never afford this type of trip. Let's make it a goal to be able to take them or, you know, whatever it looks like. But have always have something you're kind of shooting for and aiming for uh with your money because you guys make a lot of money and you're going to be on the other side of this debt in a blink of an eye if if you do it, which I'm going to assume you are, Joe, uh to pay it off.

And I think that moving forward is the big is kind of that big glaring thing for me. What are you going to do moving forward? Well, the the biggest temptation after you get married and you're making 281 at 25 is to look like you make 281. >> That's right.

>> Let's get some fancy new cars. Even if you had the money to do it, it's and your friends going, "Dude, you you spent 150 grand on debt. You could have invested that, bro. That's going to be your friends on the other side." And so you have to get blinders on going, "No, these are the goals we set for our family." And that is to be completely debtree to give us options and flexibility so that one day, >> let's say she has a kid and wants to stay home.

So instead, build a life that has options and margin. >> That has margin. Love it. All right, let's head to Devin in Omaha. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Uh, I'll try to keep it quick. Um, currently on baby steps four, five, and six. I make about $113,000 a year. Wife

makes between 80 and 90. And then I run

a small business on the side that brings it's fluctuates quite a bit. Maybe between 25 and 45,000 a year.

>> Oh, nice. Okay. >> Um, like I said, we're on baby steps four, five, and six. Um, we're just wondering if we're to the point where she can stay home. Um, we had plans of paying off the mortgage within the next three or four years, but we have a two and a half year old and >> another baby and is it all right to delay that baby step six to cherish

these years so she can stay home with them? >> For sure. For sure. I would still keep an semianressive goal, right?

Because if you went all the way to what the average person if they have a 30 year like I'll pay it off in 30. We still want you to pay it off in, you know, a reasonable time um to have that. But if it slows it down by a couple of years because yeah, if you guys have two babies in the house and you're like, "Listen, we want Yeah, we don't pay for daycare, you know, your wife wants to be home and you guys make $150,000 a year with just your income, the side business and all." >> Uh I mean, I think it's a green light for sure for her to stay home.

>> Yeah. Um not factoring just my income. I

don't I don't try to factor my side business in too much to our budget monthly just because that's kind of bonus on the top, >> right? Just make that the extra mortgage payoff money. How about that? That's fun. >> Yeah. So, we'll have about 1,000 to,500 left a month still. >> And that's after investing 15% money in

college, >> paying all the bills. >> So, here's my next part on that. Um, I

have a pension. You guys say to only count half of what you put into your pension. >> Yes. >> So, if if it's, you know, 6%, you can count three.

But they still Yeah. So it's five. So it' only be 12 and a half percent. So it' be I could bump it two and a half%.

But yeah, we're still contributing to 529s and then retirement as well. >> That's the key is if it's going to derail the baby steps, then we got a problem here.

Um, the other thing was is this would bump us above the 25% rule for the mortgage just a little bit, but by the end of the year, we'll have about a h 100,000 outside of our um

emergency fund saved up. Will it be okay to recast the mortgage? >> Yeah, throw that lump sum at it and recast. It'll bring your payment down.

I mean, either way, you're going to knock the payment the mortgage out fast anyways. So, you guys are in great shape. >> Yeah. And congratulations, Devin.

I mean, honestly, you guys doing this and paying off your consumer debt, having an emergency fund, >> that's why you do it. Yes. Is have options in life so you're not tied down to a job that you hate when you want to be home with your kids. And so, yeah, you and your wife have done a fantastic job.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with George

Camel, my I was going to say co-host, bestselling author. >> Say what you want. >> All the things. All the things. But we are here to answer your questions. So give us a call at88255225.

We have Lacy on the line in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi Lacy. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah. So, my question is, I'm a single mom of three and I'm trying to determine if I actually should drop my emergency

savings down to $1,000 to put um that

$9,000 towards my car loan.

>> Oh my goodness. Okay. How How old are the kids?

>> Uh 17, 10, and eight.

>> Got your hands full. I applaud you, Lacy. Being a single parent, I can't I can't imagine. I mean, you're doing a fantastic job just calling and having a sentence that you're putting together cuz I know it's probably so so much work. Um, okay. So, you have $9,000

saved. >> I have 10 >> $10,000 saved. And how much debt do you have?

>> Um, so I have my mortgage, which is 400,000, and then I have my car loan

that's 40,000.

>> Okay. How much do you make a year?

Um my my net takehome monthly is 7,300.

>> Okay.

So that car So you're what is that probably about 90,000?

>> Yes. >> A year. >> Um yeah, you're right that car is kind

of right on the bubble of too much car for what you make. We always say you don't want anything with motors and wheels being more than half of your annual income. And so you're not quite there, but you are kind of close. So I'm just curious, have you looked at if you

sold the car, what could you sell it for? >> I have, and I've actually been going back and forth on this for a month or two. >> Okay. >> Um, so I'm in an equitable position in the vehicle, whether I were to trade it in or sell it private party. So I owe

40,000. Um, if I were to cancel the

warranties, um, I would get that pr-rated refund applied to the loan and I would be at 37,000, um, to to pay that loan off. If I sell it private party, I'm hoping it it

appears I would get about 43. And I actually just this weekend went into a dealership and was quoted a $41,000

uh, amount for trading it in. And so I

the reason I bought this vehicle is because um I had been in an accident. My car was totaled and uh I purchased the

warranties because I basically have no maintenance, no, you know, um no issues for the next

6 years. So that's the 150,000 milei

powertrain warranty. And then um it includes oil changes, tire rotations, all of that stuff. So I felt like I was getting a really good deal. However, I still have a $750 car payment. So I was looking at, okay, if I downgrade into something just a wee bit smaller for, you know, 20 $25,000,

then that'll drop my payment probably $350 a month.

>> Um but then I'm not >> Why not sell it? net your six and then use, you know, five or nine to purchase something used for now and then upgrade later because then you're completely debtree and with your great income, you'll be able to save that emergency fund up quick.

>> You'll have 10K back in no time.

>> Yeah. And it it just makes me nervous to

not have that 10K in my savings account

because if there, you know, for example, I had a dog emergency a few months ago that cost me $3,000.

So if something like that were to come up, then I'm back to having to put something on a credit card, which I really don't want to do, right? My question is, say you did George's plan, okay? And that means you only have 5,000 in in the savings. If you didn't have a car payment, could you could you find

another I don't know, I'm making this up. $6,000, do you think beyond

beyond the car payment?

>> Um, I mean, so in the position I'm in

today, my my monthly margin is about $1,100. So, getting rid of that car payment, I'm, you know, $1,800,

almost $1,900 in monthly margin.

>> Okay? >> Which means you could cash flow a $3,000 emergency between your thousand buck emergency fund. And that's just one month in. >> And if you put that aside, then you could have your emergency fund built back up in in three months.

>> So, I hope you don't have any emergencies in the meantime. But if you did, >> if you did, you could have Yeah. you you could cash flow up to 8,000 at that point if you kept 5,000 in used 5,000

for the car plus the six go get $11,000 car. >> Um yeah, I mean you could you could make this work. It's just it's it's transferring risk like is kind of what we're looking at because you know people feel safe when they have cash in the

bank understandably but yet over here

there's still money owed. So from a net worth perspective, like there's still risk there. So if you did the plan of selling the car, netting out six, putting five with it, buying an $11,000 car, >> now you have no risk, right? You have an $11,000 car, but plenty of people drive $11,000.

>> And you might drive that for less than a year. Yes. As you save up and then get a better car and then a better car. The problem is when we drive brand new cars, our body says, "I need to have a brand new car forever now." And so you I kind of like stairstepping it up because you get used to that nice new leather smell and the fancy, you know, leather heated seats.

And so I think there's something about sacrifice where you go, I'm going to drive this beater car and sacrifice for a short season, especially with your situation being a single mom. >> Yeah. So So I have no debt risk. I have no risk.

No risk financially. Like I it is all you. All you. There's no bank tied to you saying if you don't pay this, we can come and get it, right?

And so there's something that's very freeing about it. And >> and we've studied, I mean, tens of thousands of people, I mean, hundreds of thousands throughout the years, millions of people that have gotten out of debt and have walked their way through the baby steps. And we have just seen time and time again, it really is the fastest, most most reliable way to build

to build wealth when you have no payments >> and you depend on your income, which is your largest wealth buildinging tool. and you yourself with the autonomy of just you are able to stair step you financially. And so getting getting a car loan out of your life, a $40,000 one, because even if it was $2,000, you

know, that you're putting aside, it'll be two two and a half years till you pay this car off. And that's a that's a long time to have a $750 car payment.

>> Right. Right. >> I promise you, you can afford the oil change and the tire rotation should be free with wherever you got your tires.

So, I I think you know they'll sell you on those warranties all day and make you think this car is about to fall apart. And I go, "Well, maybe I shouldn't be buying this car if you're so worried that I need a warranty." So, >> you talk about this in your book, Breaking Free from Broke. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, most of the money they make is warranties and financing.

It's not from the margin on the car. That's why they hate people like me who walk in with a check ready to pay cash. And so, I would get out of that warranty, bringing it down to 37. Go get your 43 for it.

Take that six and profit plus some for your emergency fund and find the best car you can.

>> Get in. Yes. You know, you're not getting a lemon. That's right. And Lacy, if you have a few um friends that are good with cars, maybe some of your friends husbands or something, I don't know. Have them look at it too, right?

Cuz it is a big purchase, a car, and you want it to be reliable. You want to you want to make sure all of those things are in check. And there they are, though. That's I promise you you can find a used car that has all those things. And yeah, getting out of this payment and freeing it up, it's pretty amazing what it what it does. Yeah. But we're cheering you on, Lacy. You're doing a really really good job.

Okay, guys, let me ask you something.

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Up next we have Valerie in Chicago. Hi Valerie, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

So, we are currently in a multi-generational household. We just moved in um not too

long ago with my in-laws, but there has been some costly updates that probably

should have been taken care of a while ago. Um but my in-laws are expecting us

to pay for it, but they haven't fully given us the home yet. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when when are they planning on giving you the home?

>> Um, when it's paid off.

>> Okay. That's still a bad idea for tax reasons, but we can couch that for a second and talk about this multi-generational home. So, is it just your in-laws and you guys right now?

>> Yes, there are um 10 of us living here

in >> Wow. So, it sounds like more than that.

Is it kids? Who else is there?

>> We we have six kids.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. So, how does this work?

I'm curious cuz I've heard about these.

Uh, who who pays who? So, they own the house, they pay the mortgage, and then you pay them rent, >> and then we're just paying the utilities. >> So, you don't pay rent?

>> No. >> Okay. So, you're living pretty cheaply, and they're going, "Well, hey, listen. You guys are living here pretty cheap. The house is going to be yours. We think you should pay for these renovations." >> Yes. >> Repairs. How much is it?

>> Yes.

Um well, just for example, we had to order like a new um like a window and

that was like $900. So,

but it had, you know, been needed to be

taken care of before we moved in.

>> So, they waited until you guys moved in and said, "Hey, there a bunch of repairs to do. >> That's fun." Um >> kind of, but not really. But my husband

>> Go ahead. >> Well, I was going to ask how how did this all come about?

Did they offer this as, you know, a

great option in life and you guys were like, "Let's do it." >> Uh, >> yes. >> Okay. >> My husband got a job opportunity and so we moved back to his hometown.

>> Left to your own devices. Would you guys want to have your own place?

>> No. My we we want the multi-generational

to to work. We want it to work.

>> Okay. Well, then I would do a reset if you really want this to work. I would do a reset on all things finances because it sounds like you guys never actually came to any agreements as to how it would work other than you guys pay utilities. That was pretty much it.

>> Correct. >> We need a whole lot more than that.

>> And the thing about taxes I mentioned, if they give you the house while they're still alive, then you lose

>> the ability to have the step up in basis. So, if they bought the house for $100,000, when they give it to you, now it's worth $500,000. where you're going to owe taxes on all the gains. But if they if you inherited the house after they pass, >> well, now there's a step up.

And so the IRS says, "Hey, the house is worth 500." And >> you got it at 500 >> and you got it at 500. So there's no taxes. So if you went and sold it within a couple months, you'd have no taxes to pay. >> And so that's one of the issues with giving a home to your kids.

>> So I'd caution you against that.

>> I didn't. which then complicates it, right? Well, how do you get the house? Well, you need to like buy it from them >> or you all live there until they die. I mean, you know what I mean? From >> Oh, yeah. >> But if that is that what you guys want, though, you want a long-term life like this? >> Yes. Yeah, that's what we're planning on. >> How old are the parents?

>> In their 70s. >> Okay. So, listen, people do life

different. Um, and if this is how you choose and what you guys value and want to do, you you do what you guys want. I mean, you're both you're all adults.

>> Here's my fear, Valerie, is that

down the line, and we've heard crazier than what I'm about to throw out. I'm just making this up. >> Uh, you know, his mom passes away in 5

years. Dad's 75, meets a woman online at

80. She wants to go and leave and sell the house, whatever, whatever. And you're 10, 15 years into this wonderful plan. something gets derailed and for 10 to 15 years you and your nuclear family

have done nothing from a home perspective of building equity of having your own of saving for a home >> quote unquote you're out of the deal now um in this pretend scenario >> and here you guys are in your 40s or 50s

>> and you're starting from nothing from a home perspective which is one of the it's the largest purchase you make as a home it's the thing that if you rent it continues to go up. So that avenue is not smart longterm. I mean it just puts you in a >> in a scenario that can be very sticky that you don't see right now but could happen in 10 15 years. Someone gets

sick, right? Or and you have to take care of them. There's >> addition or they run out of money and now they're doing a reverse mortgage and now you can't even inherit the home without paying them. And so there's a lot of issues that could arise in the meantime. This it sounds this is why doing deals with family can be a little sticky and and what I'm going to propose is going to sound probably a little heartless, but I would I would almost write some type of legal contract that

could hold up in court >> that literally plays out. It's what we would do if someone did a partnership in business. We don't recommend partnerships, but if we do, we're like, you got to think about it all.

addiction, divorce, you know, you go through all the things that could happen to put you guys in a bad situation >> and you guys need to lay out scenarios to protect yourselves um for whatever that could look like in the future. So, that's my only word of caution. That doesn't always happen. Sometimes there's crazier things that happen.

>> Sometimes nothing happens and and everything's fine, but we wouldn't have jobs if everything went according to plan for people. >> Yeah. and they are willing to write

something, you know, get something in in written form um in case, you know, XYZ happens.

>> And then I would also come to an agreement on how repairs and renovations are going to work because you're going to have more of this as time goes on and so are you guys going to cover it forever? Are we going to split it 50/50?

>> Yeah, >> that's up to you guys to decide. and if you want to foot the bill for this one, but I think if it's $20,000 in repairs and they just neglected to do them, I don't think that should fall on you.

>> And then Valerie, you and your husband need to have some really healthy check-ins as well because sometimes you

get locked in a situation where you start to be really unhappy >> living with his parents. And again, maybe not next year, but five, six, seven years, >> resentment plays up and you know what I mean, comes in and >> and it starts to erode you guys, right?

like like you just need to be thinking through all of this. Um or if he gets another job offer, he got a job offer to move home. What if he gets an offer >> that would triple his salary and it moves you guys somewhere that you like really want to but then you feel >> stuck in some situations right at the house. So I >> Or they expect you to take care of them regardless of the finances. Yes.

>> Because they are in their 70s.

>> Yep. So, >> I would just be I would be looking at every possible thing and saying it out loud and you and your husband be in agreement. >> And I I would meet with an estate planning attorney just to help you navigate this. Not out of like we're not suing anybody. It's just more, hey, can you help us craft this in a way that makes sense for everybody?

>> Yeah, I think that would be great. And I would feel comfortable probably doing that. >> Yeah. and they can walk you through those financial aspects of well as well of what I mentioned of inheriting the house versus them giving it to you while they're alive because that's also some pieces to think about. We get too many calls where someone calls in and they go, "Yeah, they just gave it to me while they were alive." And we go, "Well, you have a a tax bill on that $700,000 in

gains from when they bought it in 1982."

>> Yes. Yes. Okay.

>> How many bedrooms is this? I'm just curious. With 10 people there, >> three, four, five bedrooms.

>> Wow. Oh. So, are the kids all bunking up? >> Um, no. Just some of just some of our boys. They're younger and so they um

also have a a bedroom, but there's essentially two like primary suites. Um,

>> and the six kids are splitting three rooms.

>> Yes. Okay. And then we have a baby with us, but also um there's potential to like make other bedrooms if we need to along the way.

But it's a pretty spacious house. It's 7,000 square ft. >> Oh wow. This is palatia.

>> That's great. That's great. >> Okay. Well, I wish you the best. I really do hope it works. Um it sounds so

good on paper. Like grandma and grandpa are there and and Dr. Arthur Brooks, he's mentioned this cuz he his kids live with him. Yes. >> Grown kids and it's a great situation, but it's because there's healthy boundaries in place. >> Yes. Everyone has to be functional.

>> Psychology. I know he studies this for a living too which is >> you need to have some financial footing, have good boundaries, be emotionally, mentally, financially healthy for this to work. >> Yep. And a lot of think a lot of people go in blindly not thinking about what could be or don't address things and that's when the dysfunction starts to play out. So it can be a beautiful thing if it works. Um but a lot of times people aren't, you know, aware of all

the traps. So just going into it, you know, eyes wide open is important.

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We wish we could get to every call here on the show, but if you do have a money question and you want an answer to your specific situation, make sure to head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

So, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on Ramsay principles. So we put in the past, you

know, few years of shows into this, articles, books, everything coming out of Ramsey so that your question, your specific question can be asked the way we would answer it. So again, ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, let's go to Wanda in State College, Pennsylvania. Hi Wanda, welcome to the show. >> Hi. Hi Rachel. Hi George. How you doing?

>> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

>> So, I would like to know how one ages

gracefully financially speaking. I

honestly thought the Lord would come back, but while we wait, the cost of

long-term care is astronomical and frankly, one cannot afford.

I feel like the country is not financially kind to the elderly requiring care and the life that we save

for without debt investing smartly is just gone in a poof because the cost involved with any type of elder care.

So, I'm 56, my husband's 57, and after

having witnessed what my parents, who have since passed on when they needed care, it makes me nervous for me and my

husband and even my in-laws. So, how does one plan for this?

>> Well, it's a great question. Um, so there's a couple of things you can do.

There is long-term care insurance. Have you looked into that?

>> I I've been thinking about it. I honestly have not and I'm not sure like how old I need to be to even invest in that. >> Well, you generally say once you turn 60 on your 60th birthday as a gift to yourself, I would look into it and purchase a policy for you and for your husband because the earlier the better, the lower the premiums.

>> Got it? >> Cuz that's the one thing that could tank you is that long-term care. A nursing home stay, you know, can run over 100 grand a year easily. And the average stay is two and a half years. So you're talking quarter of a million dollars out of your nest egg if you even have it to cover something like that.

>> Correct. >> And so it's worth it even though like man it's an expensive insurance. Yes.

But you're not going to have it forever and hopefully quote, you know, fingers crossed we can get you selfinsured to where your nest egg can cover that easily without, you know, depleting your retirement. >> Yep. So that was going to be the next option. So you can do long-term care insurance. And then the next option is is you Wanda, you and your husband. So, where are you guys at financially?

>> Oh, we've got um a couple of retirement accounts. We're still working. Um just about to pay off our house at the end of the year. So, we're we're doing okay and

everything. Um >> how much are in those accounts?

>> Oh, goodness. Let me think. Um

he has like 300. I think I might have

400. I don't even know how they're split out. I kind of glaze over when it comes to investments and retirement. Um, we

have about almost a h 100,000 in the bank. >> Okay. So, yeah, you guys are around

800,000. And then your house is almost paid off, which is so exciting. Correct.

>> What's that worth?

>> Probably um the last time we checked

somewhere around 250 to 300.

>> Okay, great. >> So, you guys are net worth millionaires.

Okay, maybe >> that's just the math. That's the math.

Wanda, I think it's not an opinion.

>> I think you are, which is very exciting.

>> Based on accounting standards, your assets minus liabilities would put you over the million dollar mark, which is awesome. That's a great milestone. It's not to say you can go retire tomorrow, but at least you're heading in the right direction compared to most of America.

So, I would continue to invest once the house is paid off. I'd start maxing out those retirement accounts and build up enough of a nest egg where 250 grand,

you know, is not going to tank your retirement. You can still retire with dignity and know that you have those costs. And again, at that point, you still might want long-term care and let the nest egg continue to grow in the meantime. And maybe maybe you need it, maybe you don't. But either way, you're covered. Not wondering, is a health scare or a nursing home stay going to ruin us? >> Going to take us out. Yep. All right, let's head to Katherine in Virginia. Hi,

Katherine. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Okay, so I would like to know um should we increase our living expenses while we save up a down payment for our house?

>> Um >> should you increase your living expenses? >> Yes. >> So, spend more per month while you're saving up a down payment.

>> Yes. because we're welcoming our second baby in September. And right now we're living in a studio apartment so that we could save up quickly for um the emergency fund while I was pregnant. And

our lease is about to be up.

>> Okay. Yeah. Um how much do you guys bring home a month?

>> Um my husband brings home $5,320

per month. >> Okay, perfect. And are you home with the baby?

>> Yes, we have a toddler. Um, she's one and a half. >> Okay. So, great. Um, so the where you

guys are in Virginia, what would be an average rent for I don't know if you guys do like a twobedroom or a threebedroom or a small home, what what are you looking at rent-wise?

>> Um, it seems to be about like for something decent. Um, 1,300 to 1,500.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I would say that's pretty doable. I mean, we say 25% of your income is

what should be for living expenses. Um, or for I'm sorry, for rent or mortgage.

So, that's about right. >> 1350 or so would get you right there.

And if it's, you know, 26%, it's not like anything's on fire. It's just a parameter to make sure that you have money left over to do things like save a down payment and invest and save for the kids' college and live your life and go on vacation because too many people have their house payment or rent at, you know, 50% of their take-home pay.

>> Yeah. So, if you guys upped it some, Catherine, for sure, I think that you can make that move because saving for the down payment, it may take you guys what, two, three years possibly of you renting somewhere to save that up. And yeah, I probably would not want to do that in a studio apartment with two little kids. I would like walls >> and separate rooms for the sanity of

everyone.

Yeah, cuz my husband, he actually works remotely. Um he um lost his job like

right before um I got pregnant with our daughter. So we took a big pay cut. And so um after we used that money from our house that we had bought um when we first got married to move down here >> and pay off all of our debt um because we just couldn't afford the mortgage, which was about $2,000.

>> Yeah. So we're just trying to figure out how we can save up as quickly as possible. Yeah, that's great.

>> Resetting with some peace this time >> for sure. Yeah. Do you guys have any more consumer debt that you're working on? >> No. None. >> Okay, great. So, yeah. So, it really is that down payment. Do you guys have kind of a goal that you're you're shooting for?

>> Um, we're hoping about 40.

>> Um, hopefully in like two and a half years. Um, >> just based off of the numbers right now.

My husband thinks he'll get a couple of raises, but I just don't want to base it off the money we don't have yet.

>> Sure. No, I get that. Don't count the chickens before they hatch. But I'm hopeful if he's if he's got that mindset, I think he will increase his income because he's going for it.

>> Well, and the fact that he was being paid more in his last job than the job he took. So, it makes me think he's marketable, right, at some level to >> to be able to be making more, too. So, that's that's exciting. >> I like that specific goal. 40 grand, 2 and a half years. That's a little over,300 a month. So, we have to be putting that away in a high yield savings account. We'll let it grow. Uh, and if you don't have a good one, Fairwinds is an awesome partner of ours.

You can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey and get a great high yield savings account to help your down payment fund.

Awesome. We're so excited for >> and pregnant with number two, you said, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Congratulations. So exciting.

Yeah. I think with uh this is this is the change in lifestyle um or in life

that happens, life scenarios that does make you say, okay, what what do we need to shift to create some peace that's doable? And the beautiful thing is that Katherine and her husband freaking work their butts off to get out of consumer debt. So that $1,200, 1,300,400 in rent

is doable while saving more. If not, they would be paying two car payments that would equal that. You know, they wouldn't be able to save for a down payment if they still had debt. So >> those are heartbreaking calls when we get those.

So it's nice to see someone doing it right. >> I know. So that's the power you guys of getting out of debt and freeing up your income is that you can actually put money away and save for things that you want in the future. uh for you and your family.

So, Catherine, well done.

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

All right, May is Mental Health Awareness Month and according to the National Institute of Mental Health, more than one in five US adults experience mental illness every year.

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Today's question comes from Owen in New York. He says, "I make 124 grand a year

making two jobs, more than my parents ever earned. I bought a used car and went to a cheap instate college. My problem is that I can't afford a home.

and my parents, who are retired, have a $650,000 home. I live in upstate New York, where property taxes are a,000 bucks a month, and houses that aren't falling down, sell in 3 days. How can I possibly afford a home? And how do I stop being this angry about stolen from by about being stolen from by the boomer generation and their generation's government, which is ruining my relationship with my parents?

That got dark quick. >> Oh my gosh. >> I felt a little anger and then he just said it out loud. Hug Owen.

I feel like Owen needs a hug. >> Wow.

>> He's mad at the the entire boomer generation. >> How dare you? How dare you own a home?

>> Wow. And the generation's government.

>> Listen, I get kind of being pissed about the housing situation. That's understandable. It is. It is so crazy.

It is. It's wild how expensive.

>> I can't wait for Owen to have kids for them to They're going to be so mad at Owen's generation. You ruined everything. >> You ruined everything.

>> Listen. >> Oh no. Owen, >> why were you a child in 1992 instead of buying up a home? What were you doing, man?

>> What were you doing at three? >> That's the running joke. Okay. But I do feel his anger.

>> Yeah. >> And uh I actually mentioned >> not to that ext not to being mad at your parents. >> But I understand going I've done everything right. >> Sure.

>> Even debtree making six figures, it's still hard to afford a home where you want to live. >> Yep. >> No matter what your age is. And so I I get where he's coming from.

But the real question, how can I possibly afford a home is set a goal.

free, you should have no payments. And if you have reasonable rent right now, you should have a pretty good amount of margin in that 124 grand.

>> Yeah. >> To set aside in a high yield savings account to start saving up a down payment. I mean, we just talked to a couple right in the at this right before the break and they make they bring home 5,000 and she said they still can probably put away 1300 and that's with her and two kids and a husband.

>> Yeah. And he makes double that single, no kids. >> That's what I'm saying. So, like you can make some serious sacrifices to put some serious cash away. Um, and that's the that's the reality of what has to happen. Now, did that have to be true for your parents for as long as what you're going to have to do? Maybe not.

Maybe not. Uh, but it is the reality and I think that's what's hard is like it sucks and I think we can say that but then what's the next thing we're gonna do? Are we gonna sit and complain and be mad or are we gonna say okay let's get creative and figure out how can I put money aside to save up for a down payment and we say for first-time home buyers 5% um is a great goal right up to 20 is awesome to avoid PMI but 5% are you

going to have to drive 20 minutes further one direction than what you want maybe. I don't know. But so there's there's ways to do it and people are buying homes and maybe it's going to take longer and not specifically where you want to be. But that's that that's where we're at and that's the solution.

That's what we try to do on this show is like there's a lot of people that are just they just complain about it all day, which I get, but also >> venting can be fun for a little bit. >> Yeah, vent for some, but what are you going to do? What are you going to do after that? If you keep venting, you're going to be getting nowhere financially if you don't have a goal.

>> Yeah. Well, and there is some actual stats behind this anger. The median home price is now roughly six times the median household income. When you look back at the 1970s, it was like two times.

>> Yeah. >> So, it is hard. I don't want to minimize that. It is harder for a young person to save up for that home.

Part of it is structural. Part of it is supply and demand. Part of it is the interest rates during CO were so low now everyone's hanging on to their house because of the mortgage. >> Yeah. 2% rate or something.

>> So, no one's letting go of their homes. And you've got the boomers who have had these homes for a long time. They've appreciated and they're going to have a big tax bill if they sell. So, they don't want to get out.

But there is something, Rachel, I want to bring up that is actually happening right now in Congress. Oh, yeah. >> That could actually help a little bit. Okay.

>> So, it's not going to be like a silver bullet, but it's a a move in the right direction. >> So, you may have heard on the news these large institutional investors, firms that own hundreds of thousands of single family homes. You've heard private equity firms. Well, they've been buying up these homes at scale in cash out bidding regular families, which is really frustrating.

>> And so that makes it more difficult. And we believe homes are for people, not portfolios. And so there's actually a bipartisan bill working through Congress right now. It's called the 21st Century Road to Housing Act. And what's encouraging is the Senate version passed 89 to 10.

>> Oh wow. Of >> as bipartisan as it gets. So everybody is for these protections to keep large institutional investors from buying up more single family homes. So it's a it's a good bill and it actually could help some people buy a home. Could free up some of the supply. >> So it would basically stop these private equities of buying up residential homes.

>> It would force them to sell off within 7 years. And the ones that own 350 or more, they can't buy anymore. It just blocks them completely. And if you are renting one of those homes, you have the first right of refusal to buy that house.

>> So there's a lot of good things in the bill. Here's the catch, Rachel. This is government for you. So, the Senate passed that, but it goes to the House now.

Well, the House released their own amended version and they quietly stripped out these key provisions that gave the bill its teeth. So, they kept the name and they removed all the substance and the House vote is happening this Wednesday. And so, if this weekend version passes, these protections are gone, >> which sucks.

>> We do not want this House bill to pass.

And so, listen, I'm not a person who thinks I can sway government. But if this matters to you, and I think it should, I would let my House representative know >> to say no. >> Yeah. This is one of those times where you go find your rep.

60 seconds. Go to house.gov. We'll drop a link in the description to make it easy for you and tell them to keep the protections in place and to say no to this bill on Wednesday. And you know, Congress hears from lobbyists every day.

They almost never hear from regular people like you and I.

And we say all the time on the show, Rachel, you know, what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the White House. >> But there are structural things happening in the White House that can help the American people. I believe the government's job should be to create an environment that helps people win financially. >> That's right.

That's right. >> Not to solve our problems, but to be a part of that solution. So go to house.gov, finder rep. We'll drop a link in the description if you want to learn more about what's going on.

We'll drop a link to an article rep. >> Good bill in Congress, now bad bill that went to the house. So, I mean, as I was reading it, I was like, this is like a movie plot. It's like the bad guys are trying to swap it last minute to sneak it in.

And that this is how it all happens. It's like late night. They kind of sneak it through the door. Nobody knows about it.

No one has time to read it.

>> This is insane. This is why I'm not in politics, Rachel. It's too much stress for me. I want to actually We can help someone in seven minutes on this show.

>> I know. >> Congress has a hard time doing that. But I'm glad we're moving in the right direction. This is a good bill and everybody should care about it and say yes to that. >> Love it. >> But say no. >> Say no to the House bill. >> All right, but we are going to say yes to Mike in what is this? Uh Westchester, New York. Hi, Mike. Welcome to the show.

>> How's it going, guys? >> Good. How can we help?

>> Good. So, today I'm going to be talking about uh how I graduated in December from college. Um, and then I came out with about 21 grand in federal loans.

So, I'm still in my grace until August, but I've already paid off about 11 grand. >> Wow. Good for you.

>> Yes. Thank you. My question today is, do I continue on this path for about another four four or five months or do I

take out from my Roth and kind of just end all right now? Um, as far as as as a

student loans. >> Yeah, it's a great question.

Um, I would just keep at it. I would just keep cash flowing, paying this off because if you did take money out of your Roth IRA, that's a retirement account. And you will get penalized uh

by doing that and paying taxes too on it uh because you're not 59 and a half. So, that's going to be the key. You want to be able to um get that money out without that penalty. And so, I would keep that in, let it continue to grow. And yeah, in four months, uh Mike, well done.

You'll be you'll be student loan debtree. Do you have any other debt besides the student loan?

>> I'd say I drive a used car and I kind of just stay frugal.

>> Good for you. How much How much are you making?

>> I bring home about four grand a month.

>> Good for you, Mike. Well done.

>> Just keep at it. If you had nonretirement investments, like in a brokerage account, then we would say, "Yeah, let's sell those off and get rid of this debt even faster." But because it's in those retirement accounts, you can technically take out contributions, but then you're still unplugging all the growth. And at your age, if you actually map out what that cost is costing you over decades, >> way more than 10 grand, >> you'll be slapping yourself going, "What did I do? That could have been 150 grand or 500 grand." Way to go, man.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting with George Camel.

We are answering your questions at 888255225.

All right, let's head to Sam in Rono, Virginia. Hi Sam, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, I'm 17 and I'm a business owner and I'm just wondering how I could build credit without using a credit card because I want to buy my first home within the next few years and just don't know where to start on that. Nice. Way to go, man. What are you making with this business?

>> Uh, right now I'm doing around two to three,000 a week.

>> A week? >> That fluctuates three? Yes, sir.

>> So, you're talking 100 to 150 grand a year at 17.

>> Yes, sir. Now, that is before taxes, but Yes, sir. >> What are you doing, Sam? That's amazing.

>> Uh, I'm a mobile mechanic.

>> Wow. >> Did you go to trade school for that?

Uh, I graduate in a month.

>> Way to go, >> Sam. We applaud you.

>> How do we clone Sam? >> Unbelievable.

>> Okay, >> that's so great. >> I love this. Okay, so you're trying to build credit because you want to buy a house one day >> in three years. He wants to be a homeowner >> by 20 years old. Well, here's the good news. You don't need credit to do that.

I know that sounds crazy coming out of my mouth. Do you believe me, Sam? First of all, do you trust me? I feel like Aladdin right now. >> I believe it is. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, the way to do that is through something called manual underwriting.

And it's something I've done personally.

And our friends at Church Hill Mortgage, they specialize in these. They've done tons of them for Ramsay fans who live

life outside of the stupid credit system we live in, which is go into debt to get a score so you can get more debt so you can hopefully pay that off perfectly to hopefully increase your score to hopefully get a higher score. Does it sound crazy to you?

>> Yeah. It does sound a little twisted >> because it is. And so manual underwriting instead of automated underwriting, which is let the computer decide if you should get the mortgage and let the three-digit number define your financial life. So instead, the lender will look at your your situation.

Do you have on-time rent payments, Sam?

>> Uh, I don't believe so. I I don't think I quite know what those are.

>> So, do you rent right now or do you live with family?

>> Uh, I live with my parents. So >> is the goal are you going to live there for the next 3 years while you save up?

>> Uh I'd like to rent eventually within the next year or two, but >> as of now, yes, I plan to stay there.

>> Okay. So you'll be required to show on-time rent payments, whether it's to your family or to a landlord if you decide to go rent elsewhere. But you'll need a year of on-time rent payments.

You need some utility bills in your name. So, you know, think water, electric, cell phone, internet, things that show that you pay your bills on time, that your insurance premiums are paid consistently, that you have strong employment history, that this business has done 100 grand for the last 3 years,

and some solid savings and down payment.

>> I gotcha. >> And if you have those things, you don't need to have the credit score in order to buy that home or get the mortgage.

>> Yeah. So Sam, if you were to live with your parents for the next three years, then I would be keeping track at least two years out um of rent >> of documented bank transactions going to mom and dad. >> So document those um if you put deposits in for rent and maybe they put one bill

in your name like internet or something, I don't know, and you pay something so that you have a bill or your cell phone um one or two bills that's tied to your name.

>> Oh I got you. That makes sense.

>> But yeah I mean you're >> if you keep doing this you're going to pay cash for a home and ignore the entire system. That's pretty wild.

What's your What's your savings goal right now?

>> Uh right now I'd like to have by the end of this year around 40,000 saved because I do want to possibly migrate into a shop space to rent at the end of this year. >> Yeah. Cool. >> And uh just grow my business that way.

>> It's amazing. Right now, >> what are your what are your monthly expenses?

>> Uh so I do have three vehicles. Uh, I do

have a lot of tools I have to go through to, I guess, keep my work going. And

besides that, just insurance, gas, uh,

basic utilities. >> Nice. >> And you're doing this all on your own >> currently. >> Yes, ma'am. >> A soloreneur. >> That's amazing, Sam. >> Great. All the cars are paid off, those three cars.

>> Uh, yes, sir. >> Nice. >> Okay, Sam, I want to implore you because you're doing above and beyond. I mean

the you're a 1enter when it comes to the 17 year olds in America and if you stick to this principle with your business Sam it is going to help you not only grow but create such peace and wisdom is do

not go into debt in your business. Okay.

So when you are 20 21 and you're like hey I need to go and get five more trucks and I need to do this and that.

I'm just going to go get a small business loan. You know whatever. Whatever. Say no. You're gonna get mailers, Instagram ads, emails telling you, "Hey, we'll give you a loan, Sam.

Scale your business. You deserve it." >> Yes. Move at the speed of cash with your business, Sam. Stay debtree.

>> And I promise you, it's the it's one of the number one things that takes small businesses out >> is is debt and overhead expenses like that. I mean, >> and the debt stays with you even if the business fails. That's right. They don't care. They still want their payment.

>> You are in the green. And so, stay there, Sam. Do not go into the red. do not go into debt for your business. Uh but man, well done. >> I mean, think about three years. If he lives off say 30 or 40 living at home and socks away almost a hundred a year for three years, that's 300 grand.

>> $300,000. >> That's mind-blowing. >> Which would buy, you know, possibly a small home >> in Rowan Oak. I'm sure you can find a home in Rowan Oak for 300 grand, especially as a young single man at 20.

That's pretty wild. So, there you go, Sam. And I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I have a whole chapter on credit scores and how to live without it.

And I walk painstakingly through everything of how do you rent an apartment, how do you get a car, how do you buy a home without a credit score. And I hope it's a helpful gift to you cuz we uh we want to see you win. We believe in. >> Um, all right.

Sydney from Instagram asks, >> "If I only pay minimums on my higher debts and focus on the smallest debt payoff first, won't that put me further behind because those accounts will be occurring interest?

I mean, they're going to acrue interest no matter what because that's how debt works, unless it's a 0%. And in that case, the goal is to pay it off so aggressively that the interest doesn't matter all that much. Like, yes, you might be paying 50 bucks or 100 bucks or a couple hundred bucks in interest, but if you're throwing a,000 or 2,000 at it, you are faster than the interest.

>> That's right. >> That's the goal. >> And that's what I think people Yes.

Because when people do the math >> and they're like, "Well, shouldn't you pay off the highest interest rate first?

What you don't understand, number one, is the behavior change. What actually ends up happening with the momentum when you get a small win, our human spirit, it's it's how we're wired is that you get excited and you get more intense and you keep going and going and going versus trying to pay off the highest interest rate. Let's say it's a credit card. It's $30,000 for something, right?

And you're just like chipping away, but you got a $1,200 medical bill over here or things over here. When you just knock out the small ones and you combine all those minimum payments to keep throwing at the highest um the next highest debt,

it's incredible what happens. Momentum proven. I mean, it's not just a Ramsey thing. Like Harvard Business Review, MIT, they all have come out and said Dave Ramsey was right.

The debt snowball method is the best way to pay off your debt. It actually works. >> And to your point, George, when you're doing it this quickly, the average person is paying off all their debt in 18 to 24 months. The interest at the end of the day is just it ends up kind of just being a wash.

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Let's go to Ben in Cincinnati. Hi, Ben.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, we just paid off all of our um

student loans and we took the financial peace class and it was worth it. Um, >> amazing. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, now we're just paying off uh we paid

off one other car. We have one more. We we're paying off our minivan and we just we bought a house last year. So, we're working on those. Uh we do have like

about 25k saved up in savings. Uh a little bit

for emergency and a little bit for the house emergency. But now, uh as we're working through that, how would you say we should start saving up for her retirement since her job doesn't offer it?

>> Okay. Um, so we got a couple things going on you guys. How much is how much is left on the car?

>> Uh, on the car we have is uh about

12,000. >> $12,000 left on the car. Okay. And then

>> you have $25,000 in savings. And then you're asking about your wife's retirement. So before we get there, >> we do want this car >> cleaned up. The debt. Yep. Yep. So, I would throw 12,000 at it today out of your 25. >> Okay. >> Which means you free up a payment. What's the payment on that?

>> Uh, the payment on that is about 300.

>> Boom. You just got a nice raise right there. >> Yep. So, then I would build that um emergency fund back up to what you guys need, 3 to six months of expenses, and you guys can pick in that range where you feel comfortable. And then you move on to maybe step four, which is retirement. So her company does not

offer like a 401k, 403b, no pension

plan, nothing.

>> No, it's just a small Christian school.

So they didn't have that in their offerings. >> Okay. As a benefit. Well, one thing she can do is open up a Roth IRA. And so she

can do that and fund is it what$7,000?

>> 7500 is the contribution limit. What's your household income >> altogether? Gross income.

uh alto together before taxes were about 90 together.

>> Okay. So if we So our plan the Ramsey

baby steps baby step one,000 emergency fund. You have that. Baby step two will knock out the consumer debt. You're about to do that today after you get off the call. Baby step three, let's fully fund that emergency fund at 3 to 6 months of expenses. Then baby step four is 15% of your household income going into retirement accounts. So for you guys, that's $13,500.

That's what we want to see put away in a simple order. If you have a match through your employer, let's take that first. Do you?

>> Yeah, I I already do that. And um I

think alto together with my employer putting in about uh 8%, I put in about

12%. So, um we're putting

>> So, you're putting in 12% of your >> income? Yeah.

>> And but then she's not putting away anything. >> Way before >> Yeah, that was way before we got married. I was already doing that. So, >> okay. And do you have a Roth 401k through your employer or just a traditional >> 403b? >> Okay. Do you have a Roth version of the 403b you have access to?

>> Uh, I I don't think so.

>> Okay. Add that to your homework assignment to ask HR if there's a Roth

version available and you might be able to sign in and see on on your 403b um login there. But if you do have that, I love that option because it's going to be after tax money, but then it grows taxfree forever. So imagine that's net income. If you have $2 million sitting there in retirement, that's like $2 million of take-home pay that the government doesn't touch again.

>> Okay? >> And I would bump yours up to 15%.

Now, on her side, 15% of her income now can go into that Roth IRA. And now we're at this collective 15% of household income. Do you see how that works? which is probably close to a little less than that$7,000. She may not fully max it out with her income. Um but yeah, I so I

would put yes 15% of hers into a Roth IRA. And then if your employer match goes up to 8%, you may want to take it down a few percentages to max out a Roth IRA on your end. Ben, >> if you don't have a Roth 403b option, the goal is get the match, move to all the Roth options that you can fund those, then move back to traditional options if you run out of Roth options.

But with your income, you guys won't you won't hit that. You'll be able to do all Roth there and uh and not run out of room. >> That's a great problem to have. >> Okay.

>> But right now, you're doing like three good things at once, which is making it bad because you're not you don't have much focus. So, like we said, if you knock out that car payment today, >> yes, >> get the emergency fund stock back up in a couple of months max, you're investing 15% with no problem of that household income. >> Well done. All right, let's go to New York City, one of my favorite places.

We have Sam on the line.

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, I'm good. Basically,

I'm really nervous. I >> You're good. I >> have a job. Yeah, I'm at a job for now.

I'd say three years. I hate it. Um, but

I make $120,000 and I have really no

other career path that would get me anywhere near that. >> What do you do? Um, but basically like I do bookkeeping for a big trash company.

>> Okay. >> But >> do you hate trash or do you hate bookkeeping?

>> No, I actually love trash cuz trash is feeding my family because my my base salary is really like 85,000

but I get another 25,000 25,000 annually

but I get another um through commissions. And they're not like, you know, one month, one month. These are in contract, you know, every month the same amount. >> And thank God it only goes up every month. >> That's cool. I never heard of a bookkeeper making commissions. Is it off trash? Like accounts, >> right? >> No, it's like Yeah, it's trash accounts.

>> So, the more accounts create, you get a piece of that. >> Yeah, exactly. The the companies that >> Why do you hate it, Sam? What's going on that you're like, I hate my job?

>> So, I'll tell you coming to to work, I love coming here. It's like an awesome a great place to work, but the actual work

like I feel like there's a lot more I have to add to this planet than doing bookkeeping, which I hate.

>> And what is that thing you have to add to this planet?

>> I don't know. >> You just feel it. You just feel this like gnawing feeling that like this is not it. >> Yeah, there's something more.

And I just need to know how do I a find out what that is and b how do I get there? M >> well that's where I was I was joking about the trash versus bookkeeping but sometimes you're doing the right thing in the wrong place. >> Sometimes you're doing the wrong thing but in a great place and there might be a different seat on the bus as we say and so that's where I'm digging in.

>> Do you look around and see a position that you're like oh man that would be something I think I could really add value and be really good at. Oh, >> no. Like the positions are really pretty booked up. Like I think if someone outsider came in to run the company, probably half the people would lose their job. >> Do you want more of a challenge? Like are you kind of bored because you're like, "All right, knock that out. What else?" >> For sure. >> Okay. Have you brought that up to your leadership?

>> Yes, I have.

Everything here runs very not there's a word for it like very monop like it's not >> like there's no the company's very successful but it's not very efficient.

I'm trying to think for the right the right word. >> Yeah. Well, that's what I'm wondering. Are there opportunities where you go, hey, I noticed this over here. I know in my bookkeeper seat it feels a little bit out of bounds, but could I try this little challenge over here and see if I can solve that and create some efficiencies in the business? If I'm the business owner, I'm so excited to have Sam on my team.

So, that's where I'm wondering. And if you run out of those opportunities or they're not giving them to you over a long period of time and it's a there's a soul tax you're paying, then I would look for a different opportunity where there is a bigger challenge for you.

Maybe it's a more senior role. Maybe you're in leadership, maybe you're solving a bigger problem. And so, that's where I go. You might be doing the right thing and you're just not in the right seat right now.

>> Right? But the thing is that when you have, you know, three kids, a wife, a mortgage, the whole thing, um, not that

the wife is a tax, that helps, but when you have that many things going on, it's hard to just switch jobs.

>> Yeah. You have a responsibility to put food on the table. So, yeah, you don't want to neglect that by any means. >> We would never tell you to have a gap in income.

>> No, but I do wonder for you kind of searching >> Yeah. yourself. And just to say, hey, what else is out there? Um, if you hold on the line, we're going to get you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Uh, there's a great assessment on the back in the at the end of that book. And that may just be a good place just to kind of start jogging some ideas in your mind and start thinking through. And it may be at this company, it may be something totally different. And it may take 6 months, it may take a year and a half.

But, uh, sometimes these these decisions are slow and the awareness can be, you know, take some time.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but feeling like you have nothing to show for it? That so many people we talk to where they work and work, make a paycheck, but then they look up and they're like, I just still feel like I am broke and it's gone. >> Yeah, I feel like I'm broke. So, if that is you, make sure to check out our Every Dollar app.

So, Every Dollar the budgeting app, it helps you find extra money every single month and it builds you a personalized plan to help you beat debt and build wealth. And you can do all of this in 15 minutes, you guys, and find thousands of dollars that is hidden in margin that you don't even know you have.

>> There you go. So, you guys, don't be normal. Live like no one else and start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. That is one app, George.

Shameless plug. It's I I plug in I I tap

on a couple of apps every single day >> out of habit. >> Weather Channel app. I still love my Weather Channel. >> Wow. I'm I feel like a boomer, but I do.

I love a Weather Channel app. Uh email, Instagram, and Every Dollar.

>> That's it. >> I do. I Those are those are like a routine for me. I'll go through and look. Yeah. >> A simple woman. >> But every dollar it is. I'm like tracking those transactions.

Feeling good about May. Put teachers gifts in there this weekend. That's right. But yeah, when you do it all, you're like, "Okay, this I feel organized. I feel in control." >> You can't keep it all in your head.

People go, "What do I do a budget mentally?" I'm like, "Bet." And can I say if you have kids have a higher miscellaneous fund than ever before because who knew you had to sign up for they don't tell you until last minute in May and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm signing up for soccer in May for fall. I didn't plan that." Put that in the miscellaneous category. So, but it helps. >> It does. Even though it takes the stress out of the chaos of life.

>> Yes, it's wonderful. So, again, there's a free version. You guys make sure to check it out. Build your budget. Actually be intentional with where your money is going. All right, let's head to Nick in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Nick.

Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely.

>> My wife and I are about to have our first child. We're in our mid30s.

>> Congratulations.

>> Thank you so much. We uh so I have money

in an investment account um that would

cover all of our debts if I were to sell it. And I don't know that I want to do

that. We have about we're we're just about millionaires in total. Um that's

mostly tied up in retirements. Um I have

been in school for 10 years. Uh my wife

has her masters. I have a bachelor's.

It's a long story, but I had to restart because the school went under. Uh luckily no debt from that. So we managed to pay off all of my school loans. Um, we owe about 180,000 total and that's

her student loans, the house and

um about 15k in credit card debt.

>> Okay. How much is just the student loans, Nick?

>> It's about 50,000.

>> 50,000. How much was the credit card debt? You said >> about 15k. >> 15. Okay. So, that's the consumer debt >> and 130 left in the mortgage.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> And how much is in the stocks?

Um, it's just under 200,000. Um,

>> okay. >> So, my company pays me RSUs and I haven't touched it since I started this company. >> Is all the is is all the 200,000 in the

company stock?

>> Correct. >> Okay. Single stock >> and it's single stock and it's up 168%.

>> Well, that's some good return. >> Good time to sell. That's exciting. Have you factored in what the taxes would be if you sold?

>> Um, I haven't factored that in. I just

found your guys' show recently um and

started listening. >> Okay. >> So, this was just >> Yeah. >> Uh, with her pregnancy, she had a health scare. Uh, luckily everything is fine, >> but now I'm like, um, >> they had thought that she had a heart issue and then went to a specialist and ended up she didn't, but they were concerned she would die during labor.

Oh my gosh. >> Do you guys have liquid cash at all?

>> We have about 18K in liquid cash.

>> Okay, good. Okay, perfect. Perfect.

Okay, >> so you could pay off the debt and still have the 18K left over as your emergency fund. >> Exactly. >> And have no mortgage payment or any other payment which frees up how much if you added up those payments per month?

Credit cards, student loans, mortgage.

>> So my wife and I do things a little differently. We have two accounts. Her income goes into an account that pays for our food, gas, everything that we would need monthly. And my account just pays the bills. And I say my account, we're attached to both accounts. We see what goes in, we see what comes out.

It's just how we've divided it since

>> Can I just ask, Nick, why don't you just put it all on one account and everything comes out of one account?

>> Um, we had no money when we started

dating in 2010. when we were high school sweethearts. Um, and we decided that by

doing it this way, we worked while we were in college and we made sure that all of our bills were paid and we've always just done it that way.

>> Okay. Do you think things can change? Do

you think a mindset of an 18-year-old

maybe could make some tweaks and some adjustments now that you're going to be parents and you're grown-ups and you're 30 years old and you both have careers?

>> Yep. Uh that's that's what I'm going through right now is like um we weren't

planning to have kids necessarily.

>> Not that it wasn't unplanned either. Um but it wasn't something that we were like we're going to have kids. We were like we're going to live, we're going to travel, we're going to do things that we want to do first. >> Totally. Totally.

>> With my college stuff happening, we uh

ended up not doing as much of that and focusing more on that. Okay. Um, so over

the time I've only had like two full years out of college. I graduated.

>> Gotcha. How much you guys make a year, you and your wife? >> Uh, so not counting the RSUs, we make

260,000 roughly. With the RSUs, it's about 320.

>> Okay. Is she going to be working still, Nick? Do you think after the baby's here? >> That's her plan. She She's a social worker. She gives like she helps the

community locally through her job.

>> How much does she make? How much out of the 260 is hers?

>> 110. >> 110. Okay. Um Yeah.

>> Okay, that's great. Yeah. So, just I mean you called in. Can I just give you a couple of maybe random thoughts I have about your situation?

>> Yep. >> Okay. So, we talk about when you are pregnant, we have a thing called stork mode. Meaning if you are trying to get out of debt, we pause the debt snowball

and we just save a bunch of money to the side in case something happens. Okay.

Now, that is with people doing the true baby steps, which means they've already done baby step one, which is they take everything down to $1,000. If you could

imagine, Nick, yes, people take everything down to a,000 while getting out of debt. you guys will not have to do that because you have $18,000 saved

and $200,000 in stock. So, I would not

count stok mode for you um because you guys have that money uh that you will you will have enough money even if you paid off all of your debt, if that makes sense. So, if I woke up in your shoes, I

would I probably wouldn't pay off the house right now, but I would go ahead and wipe the consumer debt and just be done with the 65,000.

And then once baby comes, everyone's

good, mom's good, baby's good, then yeah, I mean I I might have a discussion to say, hey, what if we aggressively paid off the house and had and it just had no debt. Like we we had complete autonomy over our money, which is pretty crazy the fact that we can even have this discussion, Nick, that this is a possibility for you guys. So that's what I would do in your situation. I'd go ahead and pay everything off. And if you hate not having a mortgage,

you can go and get another mortgage if you want. You know, you can borrow against your house. So, >> I mean, you're probably going to get like a three or $4,000 raise if you paid off all of your debts, including the mortgage, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, this year has not been good for us financially. We had a lot of setbacks this year. We were basically debtree coming into the year. Um,

>> and then we had house problems. Our basement flooded. We had uh had to dig a

new sump pump line. Um our dog has been

sick. He's 16 and kidney failure and

stuff like that. >> That's even more reason to be completely debtree, man. You have that money back in your life. You just sold yourself on becoming debtree.

And you're probably going to have, you know, maybe 15% capital gains on the money that's appreciated. Not from what you bought it for, but the gap from what you bought it for to what it's worth today. That might be 20 grand. And look, lo and behold, that's 180 grand you can throw at your debt.

>> Gosh, I would feel good. I like wade your toes in the water by paying off the consumer debt. Once the baby's here, I think you'll go, you know what? Let's liquidate the rest.

>> Yeah. And then relationally, Nick, you and you know, I I would love to see you guys see yourselves more as one financially. This is our household. This is our family.

The money that comes into the household in one account. How do we run our household out of this account versus diving it up?

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here and I love summer. There is more fun on the calendar, more time with your people, and way more chances to make memories.

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Our scripture of the day comes from 1st Samuel 16:7.

The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. Nathan Morris said, "I've

found that the stuff, sorry, I have found that the less stuff I own, the less my stuff owns me." >> Such a minimalist. >> Look at that. >> Before time. >> It's a little bit like a the Dave Ramsey quote of it's okay to have nice stuff, just don't let your nice stuff have you.

>> I wonder if that's where Dave got it from. >> I don't know how. Who's Nathan Morris?

Do we know? We'll Google him real quick.

Let's find out. >> Probably from a different era. >> Should we know him? >> Is he an evangelist? >> He's not a president.

>> He's not. I really hope it's the founding member of Boys to Men.

>> Is it? >> I mean, that is a Nathan Morris. I don't think it's the same one, but the credit.

>> Yes. >> Author of The Art of Getting Money, personal finance expert. Boo.

>> Boo. Boys to Men lead singer will be so much more. >> In my heart, it will always >> Kelly work on our quotes of the day. We need some boys to men. I'm sure they said something, you know, really profound about stuff and money and life.

>> I'd like to say that boys to men said it. I found that the left stuff I own, >> they probably stuff owns me.

>> You should give a little tune, George.

No, but that Yeah. The the it's okay to have nice stuff, don't let your nice stuff have you >> is a great balance because your stuff having you is you go into debt for it.

The borrower slave to the lender. You don't own it. You owe on it. So it has you and the identity contentment piece is really big that >> where your treasure is >> there your heart will be also >> there you go >> look at you quoting another >> not just about debt but it's >> what is the chokeold that material goods have on you >> and you can't take it with you >> you can't nope and so it's it's fun to have stuff right >> I've seen Left Behind they you can't even take your pants all right they'll be folded neatly on the bed every time I still see clothes folded on a bed I freak out a little bit >> that's that movie scar >> trauma.

All three.

>> They read they gave me the kids version.

>> Listen, you get left behind the first time. You get left behind three times.

That's on you. That's on you.

>> Oh lord. Okay. Uh Emily, God bless you,

Emily. Sorry that you round us out, but uh yeah, in Idaho Falls, we have Emily.

Hey, Emily. What's up?

>> Hi. I am just calling in to ask my husband and I just had our fifth baby.

We're almost done with baby step three,

but we are growing out of our house

and um we have an unfinished basement.

We're just trying to figure out if it's financially wise to take out a loan to finish the basement. We're feeling really on top of each other right now.

>> Yeah, seven people. That's a lot.

>> What's it going to cost to do the basement? >> So, we estimate it'll be about um $40,000 to do the basement. For context,

we are in a three-bedroom as is. Um, so

I have two kids in each room and a baby who's going to need a room soon. Um, so

we owe 200K on our mortgage and it's at a 2.3. So moving just makes no sense.

Neither does refinancing. So we're trying to figure out if a loan to do the

basement would make sense. Um, another

piece of information, our current mortgage payment is below 5% of our

take-home. >> Okay. How much do you guys bring home a month?

>> About 10.

>> 10,000. Okay. >> Mortgage excluded. Would you guys just go buy a different home right now if you could? >> Absolutely not. We love our neighborhood. We love our home. We love the lot our home is on. It's our

favorite. >> Okay. So, you want to make this home work no matter what. How much do you have in the emergency fund?

>> About 30. Well, by the time I said we're

almost done with baby step three. When we're done, it'll be at about 35.

>> Okay. Cuz I I think you can just cash flow this. I mean, that newborn baby's going to sleep next to you for the first couple of months, right?

>> Yeah. It did take us I mean, we have a lot of kids. It took us about four years to get that fund put together.

>> But you bring home 10K a month. You said

>> we do. Yeah. Um, our food bill is more

than our mortgage.

>> Okay. Yeah. Cuz you said the mortgage is 5%. So I went, can you save up a couple grand? >> I was going to say, yeah. Could you could you guys like really kind of go crazy and just say we're going to save four grand a month and in 10 months we'll have it all. And you can even start planning and like doing things even before that.

>> Yes. Yeah. So we do have we have been

doing that. Um, we're just we're like I

said, we're really on top of each other.

I've got the baby. My husband also just started a new job where he'll be working from home sometimes and his current I

mean he doesn't have an office because that's the only >> Yeah, you got three bedrooms. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, what are you going to do with the basement? Is it going to be a bedroom, an office, and you're going to parse it out? >> Um, so it's got space for four bedrooms.

We are hoping to get a quote to do just,

you know, two bedrooms initially.

>> Um, kind of leave the plumbing and stuff for later in the bathroom.

>> Well, >> but I would imagine we're still looking at 20K for that.

>> That feels reasonable. >> Yeah. I mean I mean, Emily, yeah, we're not going to tell you to take out a loan. So, you called the wrong show. I'm so sorry.

>> No, it's okay. I want you guys to do advice. >> Yes. So, what I would do though is start

meeting with some cuz I think if you guys really could buckle down and save 3 to four grand a month, you could actually start to cash flow this and get it at least starting. You don't have to have all 40 grand at the beginning. You know, you could you you could start some of this in six months. When when is the baby due?

>> Oh, he's uh a couple months old.

>> Oh, he's here. Okay. I'm so sorry. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, I Yeah, that's what I would do. I would just make an aggressive goal uh to save, you know, 15,000, start the process and you guys just be putting cash away every single month and be cash flowing it as the project is going so that you can get it done faster, you know, versus waiting and having it all saved up.

>> That's what I would do personally just to get the ball rolling because I know the urgency in it. Yeah, but we

uh yeah, I mean, we're not going to >> you work too hard to get debtree. So, why go back in and restart the whole process and it just it's it's not the

move cuz you're going to build this thing. You're going to feel it. You're going to be paying for it versus saving up and paying cash. You treat it differently.

You're going to get multiple bids. You're going to be very strategic with every move and why you do it. When you take out a loan or even worse, a heliloc, you go, "Well, let's just take out more. Let's just really go big with it since we're already here." That's what most people do.

They use their house like a piggy bank and they just keep moving backwards. And you guys make so much money. You're doing so great. I know it feels chaotic right now and you got a newborn which is not helping anything as far as your exhaustion of feeling like >> you know been a great sleeper.

So thank goodness for that. >> Well and what you could do too which may scare some people but you have 30 grand in the emergency fund. You know you guys could say well it only really takes us you know7,000 to live off of. So technically 21,000 could be a threemonth.

21,000, you know, could be okay for a bit if that if you want to take some to >> get through the project and then refill it. >> Yep. And then jump start it. >> If you had an emergency, you pause the work until you're back to some stability. >> Y >> and I think you can cash flow this and you'll get to the end and be thankful that you don't have a loan to pay.

>> I mean, seriously, it Yeah. And George,

you you hit on it, but I just do want to reiterate when you do things with cash, there is something more subconscious that goes into the care at which the

planning process is happening, the speed at which people do the the changes. If there's changes, um, you're thinking about those so much more in a diligent way than when you borrow. It's a little bit like, oh, okay, if that's an extra five grand, tack it on, we'll figure it out later. >> Add it to my tab. >> Yeah. There can be a little bit of that feeling. And so it really does force you to stay in a time frame and in a budget.

I mean, that's what Winston and I found when we did our pool project and when we built our house in 2019. Like it's it's a different game when you're cash flowing something like that, a big project. So, it's um >> it moves slower, but with that comes a whole lot of peace. >> Absolutely.

It takes more patience on the front end, right, to get to have the cash to do it. But in the process, you're just a Yeah, I think you're just a little bit more paranoid about it because you're like, "This cannot go over. This just can't go over. What do we have to figure out?

>> But I mean, if you were running a budget for a company, you're going to go, I got to stay within the budget, and we can't take on any debt. So, once you take the debt off the table, it just changes things. And that's really helped me go, well, if I don't feel good about spending that much on it, maybe it's a sign. >> That's right.

>> So, if you're willing to finance it, but not willing to pay depart with all that cash. That's your body saying, "This is a big purchase. Are you sure?" >> Yes. >> And debt removes all of that.

It makes it frictionless to get all these things that you want now. And you signed a bunch of dotted lines that said, "Nope, you owe us with interest." >> Yes, with interest.

Yep. Absolutely. Well, thank you, Emily.

Uh, and good luck to you guys. Uh, George, great show. Always always fun hosting with you. Uh, thanks to everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 135. Shortcuts Won’t Help You Get Ahead With Money | May 4, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Pick up the phone. Give us a call if you want the right next step for your life and your money. Omar is kicking us off in New York City. What's going on, Omar?

Hey. Hi. How are you? Um, so I'm a

30-year-old general dentist living in the northern New Jersey, New York City area. Graduated from dental school back in May 2024 with around $510,000

in student loan debt.

>> Uh, I've been paying it off aggressively uh since the last eight months when I started working. So, I'm around $450,000

in student loan debt. Um, and I'm kind

of just wondering how exactly to prioritize that. You know, I'm looking to buy my own dental practice in the upcoming years. I'm married with a daughter, so hopefully a home. Um, so

I'm wondering, do I pay it aggressively and solely focus on that or pay a good chunk towards there and also some savings for my practice and for a house in the future? >> I mean, what you just said is is the exact key. You've got to figure out how to prioritize this. And it sounds like you were doing a good job of that the past eight months, the fact that you paid off $60,000 of this lickety split,

which I think is good. Um, if you're asking George and I, which you are, I would tell you that the priority here does need to be this debt. I certainly would not um go into further debt with a medical practice. I love the idea of home ownership, but at the same time, if I imagine being in your shoes already having 450 and then piling another, I

don't know, five or 600 on top of that um in mortgage debt, that I don't know how it makes you feel, Omar, but that makes me start to start to quiver. You know what I'm saying? Like I my armpits start to sweat a little bit. And so for that reason, >> my my take on this and and and this is

just a a Ramsay worldview I would say is that here we believe that your biggest wealth building tool is your income. And so in order to have your income at your full disposal, right at your fingertips, you've got to make sure that portions of that are not being sucked up by debt payments. And so for you having $450,000

of student loans, yes, you make a great income, but that's still money. and that's that's being sucked up and it's still risk that you're adding into your life. And so our path here is all about

you finding your way, yes, to wealth, but also to financial freedom and peace.

And freedom and peace are emotional aspects of money that get left out a lot. And so for that reason, I would say absolutely prioritize the student loans first and foremost.

>> Okay. So, you know, while paying off my student loans, uh this may be dumb to say, but I kind of just wanted to save some on the side. So, my wife and I, we've been putting every month in or so some into our high yield savings, and I do have around, I would say, 55,000 in high yield savings. Good.

>> And I just don't know, should I dump that into my suitable or just keep it as is? >> Yeah, I would. So, here we teach a series of baby steps.

>> Yeah, I am. So then you know that baby step one for us is a starter emergency fund. And I'm going to blow your mind and probably some people's minds who are listening right now when I tell you that that starter emergency fund is only $1,000. So essentially, yeah, you'd be taking 54,000 of the 55 and throwing it

at these student loans and knocking them down to 395. But doesn't that feel amazing?

>> It does. Yeah. And if you had an emergency, what would likely happen is you take that next paycheck and apply to the emergency instead of the debt.

>> And so making your kind of money, there's very few emergencies that would exceed your paychecks in a month.

>> Yeah. So, you know, one of the main reasons for my call is because the last over the last few months, I've been putting every single cent into my loans and stopped funding my high yield savings account. And my wife and I just weren't, sure, is that the best idea?

Um, and I kind of just want to hop on this call and just get that little relief, you know? >> Yes. Yeah. You're doing the right thing.

Even though it feels weird because like, well, I've been told it's good to save.

Sure. It's also kind of scary to have half a million dollars owed to a lender and those payments are coming due whether you like it or not. So, the faster you get rid of these loans, the faster we can live our life. And, uh, I'm happy that you're a a practicing dentist and you made it through, making good money. How much are you actually making?

So, uh, I'm only eight months in. I after taxes, I take about 16,000 a

month. >> Great. Great. Great. >> And right now you're applying what you told me about 7,500 a month >> toward your debt. >> Yeah. So, last the last few months I've been putting around 10 to 11,000.

>> Good. Well, let me do some math for you because I did it just to give you some encouragement. If you did 7,500 a month toward the debt, you're done in 5 years.

If you do 9375, you're done in four years. But here's the plan. And I want you to aim at three years. You can pay off this debt if you put 125 towards it every month.

>> That's aggressive, right? >> Three years fly by. Yeah. And three years fly by pretty quick. >> But then you got to learn how to live off four grand a month for your life. So if you can keep living like a broke college student, even with a kid, with your wife, and go, hey, 36 months of sacrifice, so the next 36 years can be filled with freedom. That's what you're really doing.

>> Yeah. And do you think your do you think your income will go up at all in those three years?

>> Yeah. So I mean I'm projecting my income

uh in the next couple years to go up to at least you know 20 30% more.

>> Amazing. There you go. So with every increase you get in income, don't go increase your lifestyle. Instead increase your debt payments.

>> Yeah. >> That way it's done in less than 36 months because you have too many goals to be just just scraping by making minimum payments. You want to own a house. You want to own a practice.

And the best path to that is to clear the decks, get rid of the debt, rebuild the emergency fund, and now you're able to cash flow. Think about now you got 16 or 20 grand free to do whatever you want with to stack up for a down payment or for a practice. It's a different ballgame. >> Correct.

>> And and I just want to I want to add to that what George is saying because there you can walk away from this conversation with two points of view. One is what we're saying, which is, hey, the the quicker you get it done, the quicker you can get about the business of, yeah, saving up for a down payment, saving up for the practice, all those fun things, right? Or you can walk away from this conversation and go, oh, two two to three years, that feels too long. That doesn't sound fun.

I'm not going to do it.

start on the house and and stack up more debt there. And I'd rather think about this practice and stack up more debt there. Right? So, this really is going to point to what mentality do you want to have in life?

Do you want to be a person who can short-term sacrifice for a while for a long-term gain, right? Can you have the foresight to say, "If I just really lock in," and I think you have that foresight. You're a dentist for crying out loud, right?

Yeah. And so the biggest blocker for you, Omar, is not going to be you and your wife. It's going to be your friends, your family, your peers going, "Dude, Omar, what are you doing, man?

You should have a nice house by now. You should be driving a nicer car.

>> You should have your own practice." And you're going to be going, "Nope, I am laser focused on this debt right now." But the truth is, most dentists dentists won't take the advice that we're giving you right now. And also, most dentists are broke. >> Yeah. >> They have a huge house with a huge payment.

They have luxury cars with a huge payment. They have practices with a million dollar loan on them while they're still trying to pay down their student debt. >> That's what a lot of people, my colleagues have been telling like, you know, just pay the minimum, open up your practice, uh, and just worry about it later.

>> Oh, the old the old down the road trick.

That's right. When life gets so much easier, we have less responsibility and chaos, right? >> Dude, do it now. Your life will never be as simple as it is now. And I promise you, if you hate it on the other side when you're debt free, owning a practice free and clear with a house payment you can actually afford, if you hate it, call us back and you can yell at us. I give you permission.

Let's talk about something nobody wants to think about until it wrecks their budget. Medical debt. Medical debt is one of the biggest financial landmines in America today. And that's why Health Trust Financial is the only health insurance provider Ramsay recommends.

You guys, a lot of people have medical debt, even with health insurance, because you can pick the wrong plan, pay big monthly premiums, and still get slammed with huge out-of-pocket costs later. And if you're self-employed or you run a small business, you're paying 100% of that bill. But Health Trust Financial Shops multiple top-rated carriers with no extra cost or pressure to help you get the right plan while finding you big savings. And they don't just look at the cheapest one, they help you understand deductibles, networks, out-of-pocket costs so you don't get surprised later.

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Megan is in San Antonio up next. Megan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you so much. >> How can we help today?

>> So, I'm a single mom with three young kids. I've been divorced for about six years and after the divorce, my mom moved in with us and so I support her, but she helps with the kids. Um, I've worked very hard to get to baby step four since the divorce, but now I feel stuck. Um, my take-home after taxes is

about 6,200 a month. And I recently put

my house on the market just because we live in a very tight space. Um, it's three bedrooms, two baths for the five of us. I'm sharing a bathroom with my three kids. >> So, my question is, would it be smarter to deal with the living space that we have currently to have sooner financial freedom? Or should I make the sacrifice to get a bigger space than my kids have more room while they're growing up?

>> Wow. Well, first of all, you have done an incredible job. I mean, coming out of one of the hardest seasons of your life, you have just scratched and clawed and taken care of those kids and gotten out of debt and taken care of your mom. You are you're a hero. You're a warrior.

>> Thank you. >> So, just know that the path looks different for you. It's not as easy as it is for some people with two incomes and nobody to take care of. And so, it's going to look different. So, let's talk through this decision. You bringing home 6,200. What is your current mortgage payment?

>> It's 1,800 a month.

>> Okay. Not including insurance.

>> Oh, what is it with insurance?

>> Um, it's another 150 for insurance.

>> Okay. So, about 1950 all in for principal, interest, taxes, insurance,

>> correct? >> Okay.

And this house that you would get, what is that going to cost you? Is it equivalent? Is it going to be a lot more as far as the mortgage? be it would be

more pro. If I were to get a 15-year

mortgage, it would probably be 23 at

least. >> Oh, boy. Okay. And is there opportunity

for you to make more at work? What is the sort of path for growth look like?

>> Um, I was just recently promoted, so I

don't see any other promotions happening anytime soon. >> Okay. I'm a nurse, so I do pick up extra shifts on the weekend, but it's hard to

balance that with also wanting to spend time with the kids, too.

>> Yeah. >> I wonder um so you said you have this deal with your mom. She's living there.

In exchange for that, she helps with the kids. >> Is there is she unwell? Is there anything that precludes her from having her own space >> at this point? me. It's just my my

schedule is very um sporadic. So, I can

get called in in the middle of the night and so that way if she's there and I need to leave to go to work, she's the kids will be taken care of.

>> Here's where I'm here's where I'm trying to solve so that you kind of know my train of thought. You're already over slightly what we would say is kind of that baseline for where your mortgage wants to fall. 25% of your take-home. In a perfect world, your mortgage would be like $1,550, right? and it's already $1,950. I would have a hard time telling

you, hey, yeah, go up in mortgage, go up to 2,300 because that's going to make you house poor for all intents and purposes. And I would not want that for you. So, I in my opinion, we need to look for solutions that don't cause you to pay more money per month for your living space. And the the first thing that I'm looking at is freeing up space.

And already, did you say it's a 32?

>> Yes. >> So, freeing up some space there. I'm fine with the kids sharing a room. I'm fine with a kid sharing a bathroom.

But it feels like with your mom in that space, it's causing difficulty. So, in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, is there a way that mom can move to maybe she's in an apartment that's really close by that if you do have to do something in the middle of the night, it's easy for her to come by. Um maybe there's some future planning that we can do to to to mitigate some of that that craziness in the night. But do you see what I'm saying?

I don't think going up in mortgage payment is going to solve the problem.

>> I think that's probably true. That's why I'm >> and you likely couldn't invest it on the market. >> You're probably going to have to forego investing and go, "Well, I can't afford the 15% investing. I need that money to afford the mortgage and all the bills." That's the other part that worries me is we put a total halt on your wealth building.

>> And so, this might just be a not now. It might be, let's wait a year, let's build up some more equity, let's keep knocking down the mortgage so that we have more to put down on the next house, bringing the mortgage down. Or we go, is there a house that's actually bigger, that's maybe a little further out, but it fits our family and we can keep that payment to 1,600 bucks a month.

other option. Is is there other houses out there? Have you actually looked with a real estate pro to see what the options are?

Yeah, it's just unfortunately everything around here th those are pretty much the cheapest options >> to stay near your employer, near schools, all that.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what is the long-term plan with mom? Is she able to afford her own place? Is she able to eventually take care of herself?

I know she 100% could, but I feel like

there's an obligation to support her because she retired a couple of years early to move in with us.

>> When you say obligation, is that financial or is that she can't physically take care of herself?

>> No, no, she can take care of herself. I just feel like the expectation on her part is that I will take care of her since she made a sacrifice >> to take care of the kids. How old are the three kids? Yes.

>> Um, five, six, and eight.

>> So, they're all in school, right? The 5-year-old is in kindergarten.

>> Yes. But I homeschool them, so she helps

with that, too. >> Interesting. Yeah. I I can point to a couple of places. Now, this is a values conversation, but I can look at a couple of places where there might be room to

move. And again, it's when I say move, I mean something to shake loose. But it's really up to you on on how important those things are because uh if you told me, "Yeah, my kids are in school um and grandma looks after them when they come home from school at 3:00 or at 3:30, whatever the time is," then I'd go, "Okay, well, you know, that makes it makes does that make sense? You wouldn't have to feel so much of an obligation to her." Um, but when you tell me, "Oh, no,

she's she's basically working a full-time job by homeschooling them and taking care of them," I see why you feel such a strong obligation there. And unfortunately, if you continue to choose that, I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying it's it's your values. If you continue choosing that, then what you're also choosing is we live in a smaller place where we're cramped.

>> And that's okay. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to have it all sometimes. But I want to address the the expectation because it seems like there's some unhealthy entitlement creeping in here.

And I get that she's sounds like a wonderful woman. She's helping take care of your kids. And while she expects you to take care of her, you didn't expect to go through a divorce, decimating her life, crawling out of debt, taking care of three kids on a single income. And so there's also this resetting of expectations of mom, in a perfect world, I would love for you to be able to live with us, but unfortunately right now everything's tight.

we don't have anywhere to go and we need a little bit of our space back. I still would love for you to help in this way and you get you get a vote here too. >> But that's kind I see what you're saying like I I think that you're viewing it as this is her pay. Like I can't give her salary for the things that she's doing.

Is is am I looking at that right? Mhm.

>> So if you say, "Mom, move out but still do all these tasks for me." It's kind of like she's working for free.

>> Yeah. >> And she can't afford to do that,

>> right? >> Yeah. I mean, she has social security, but >> she's just living off of social security. >> Okay. So, she can't afford it either.

>> What's her payment every month or what's her income total? Um, I think she gets I

know she has a lot in investments, but she's worried that if she were to ever get sick or need a retirement home as she got older that all of that money would be needed for that, which I understand. >> Makes sense. >> Um, but Social Security is 2500 a month.

>> All she pays for is her insurance, which is about 300 a month.

>> Okay. >> I think you guys have a deal here. And it it seems like, you know, it's a quid

proquo. you got your part out of it, she gets her part out of it. And I think that there's just some parts of it that are uncomfortable. And I think that's just part of dealing with to George's point, >> you're you're a single mom making it with three kids and there's going to be I mean, I don't have to tell you, you already know, you're well acquainted with with the sacrifice and the struggle here.

And I think that this is just part of it for this season. >> And the other option, Megan, I'm just throwing it out there.

But you could get the new house, 2,300 a

month, and she pays 700 bucks so she can have her own room and space >> and that could solve a few problems.

Now, it doesn't solve the long term cuz if she moves out, you're stuck with that payment. But it could in the short term alleviate some of these issues, but it sounds like right now you just got to wait, keep knocking out that mortgage with the equity, and then eventually we can make this move once we are capped.

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Go to ramseolutions.com/giveaway right now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. Joseph is in Minneapolis up next. What's going on, Joseph? >> Hey, how's it going? How are you?

>> Great. What's going on with you today?

>> Nothing much. I just have a quick question about uh so my wife and I are expecting our first at the end of the year and we're trying to pay down some consumer debt. Uh so we've looked at

balance transfer cards. Um we have one

line of credits that is currently bearing interest at 15.4%.

Which is pretty mild as far as like credit cards go. Um there's about $12,000 on that card and we're paying it down aggressively. 2,000 bucks a month.

um we've been hammering it towards that plus our balance transfer cards and whatnot. My question to you guys is is there an option to like I've looked at personal loans or debt consolidation loans but every offer that I get is above that 15.4% that that one line of

credit is actively acrewing. And so my question is about uh is there ways to consolidate lines of credit um from pre-existing cards like ones that I've already set up for myself back in high school. I'm 26 for reference. um and the

newer balance transfer lines of credit that were set up within the past 24 months. Like is there a way to consolidate the lines of credit? Is there a way to unlock other tools that may be lower than the 15.4 outside of going to friends and family?

>> I mean, there possibly would be, but the

question I have before I answer that is how quickly do you think you can pay off this 12,000?

>> 10 months. >> Okay. So, we're talking about we're trying to do the most to save ourselves maybe 140 bucks a month in interest.

>> Yeah. I think the most recent interest uh charge that was on that line of credit was like 220 bucks a month, >> right? But you're you'll be actively paying it down. So, the amount of interest that you're paying is also the actual amount is going down. I think that your energy is better spent in this

way. uh paying off the debt and finding ways to pour more money on it. I think

that's where the energy is better spent.

And I say that for this reason, the why behind that is a lot of times when we there's two things that happen here. Uh what kind of debt is it first?

>> Uh it's consumer debt. Uh we got married in May of last year, so a lot of it is wedding wedding debt. Um >> and is it just on the credit card? It's just on one credit card or multiples.

>> Yeah. So, there's there's the 12,000 that's bearing interest on the one credit card. Uh, we've done two balance transfers to two separate cards. One of them is completely paid off. The other one I recently just re uh renewed my um

what you call it the the offer to get 0% on another balance transfer. So, that >> So, what's your total debt right now?

>> Yeah. >> Uh 17.

>> Okay. So, the other reason that I don't love consolidating debt is because the way we teach debt payoff is the debt snowball method. And there is something to be said for having a couple of smaller debts that are separate versus one big debt because when they're separate, you can focus all of your extra margin on one. Get a quick win and

actually feel good about what you've done. So instead of having one massive thing that's 17,000, it's kind of cool if you have it broken up. There's a $12,000 one, there's a $2,000 one, and there's a $3,000 one cuz you knock out the $2,000 one. And there's actual sc like there's psychology behind that that backs that up. And so for that reason, I

I kind of like keeping them separate. If you were con if you did consolidate them, George, there's worse things he could do. But I don't think it seems like that's where your energy is. >> So far, Joseph, everything you've said is a shell game of just moving the debt around, switching outfits for the debt.

Let's move the debt in some stretchy pants so we feel a little more comfortable. I'm trying to get rid of the debt instead of move it around. Are you with me?

>> You with me?

We lost Joseph. Okay, there you are. I was like, "Come on, man." I was hoping for a big >> one more time. >> Are you with me?

>> Can you Can you hear me? >> Yeah. Hello. >> Yeah.

>> Okay, cool. Yeah, I understand what you said. >> I can tell you're a smart guy. You got You know your numbers.

I just want you to to like Jade said, focus your energy in the right place. Not calculating how much interest you can save, but instead calculating how fast can I get out of debt if I just throw the most at the payment. No more balance transfers, no more consolidation, no more lines of credit, no more Instagram ads, no debt relief, no debt settlement.

>> Not an outside force, not another debt

whack-a-ole. You feel me?

>> He's there. He feels you. >> He's there in spirit. His phone keeps cutting out. I promise, guys. He is pumped up right now. >> I'll play the role of Joseph. Yes, George. I feel what you're saying.

>> I could just feel I was exhausted just listening to him talk about all the balance transfers he did to move all this around. Like, dude, in that time, you could have just knocked it out. >> He could have been done. I mean, if you're throwing two grand at the debt, you got 17. >> It's pretty easy math here.

>> Let's just knock it out in, you know, >> what's 8 months, nine months. You said 10 months. So, all right, less than a year, it's gone. And we're not going to focus on interest rate. We're going to focus on the margin we're throwing at that principle. That's the goal here.

Thank you for the call. Stephen is in Fort Worth, Texas, up next. Stephen, welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'll try to um keep it quick. Uh, so my wife and I are having a baby in June. We've already got like our ST storm mode.

We've got 16,000 in a high yield savings account for that. We've since we already have that saved up, we've still been paying on my wife's student loans. We've paid about $75,000 since last June, and we are on track to pay off the last $20,000 by the time the baby is born.

>> Awesome. >> Um, however, I just got a job offer that

would require me to move to another city. And the house that we bought four years ago was a bit of a fixer upper and we paused our renovations to

uh do the baby steps properly. So, um we

feel like there's some work that's going to have to be done uh before we can actually sell it. And we're not sure if we should continue making big payments on the student loan or hit pause on that right now so that we can cash flow anything as long as it would um have a good ROI. That makes sense. that would actually increase our equity.

>> I mean, I got to tell you, I think I'd hit pause on both of these things since this baby is on the way. Um,

>> how how soon is this job stuff happening? Is it for sure?

>> Like I have a contingent offer. They're running a background check right now. We still haven't established the start date. They um already said that they

would be willing to let me do a hybrid sort of thing until I'm ready to move

after the baby's born. That's helpful.

Um, >> that buys you some time. >> The move would probably be >> July or August.

>> What type of work needs to be done on the house and how much money do you think is at stake uh if you do or don't do it?

>> It would be probably several thousand dollar if we because we did most of the work already ourselves and we're kind of exhausted of that. So, we need to have a contractor do it. It's things like updating the flooring, um, a little bit of painting, and then potentially even renovating the master bathroom that's like original 50s. >> Oh boy, that's a lot. Is that like 10 20 grand? What do you What do you think the real number is?

>> Everything together would could be that.

Like I said, we need to talk to an a realtor about specifically which items would increase the value the most, >> but yeah, it would probably be anywhere from 5 to 20,000 total. I don't see how you can do a bathroom and floors for 5,000, but maybe check those numbers.

>> Do the bathroom. It would be five. If we did use the bathroom, it would be 25.

>> Okay, got you. I was about to say that makes more sense. In 1999, um I think

that how long would it take you to save up the money to do that work?

Uh so we'll be getting uh7500

of miscellaneous expenses paid by the

company as part of the relocation package on top of what it they calculated it would cost to actually move. Um >> okay but you'll need that money to move.

So that's already earmarked for >> whatever whatever they pay us to move plus miscellaneous expenses is another

>> they'll cover that too >> anyway. >> Right. But I'm saying with your own cash money because the money that they're paying you to move, trust me, you're going to need that money to move. So I would keep that earmarked for what it's earmarked for. And now we have to set aside and understand what the timeline is going to be for us to do these renovations. How long would it take to save up 20 to $25,000? And really just I

think now you are in STOR mode. We're pushing pause on it. But during that pause, let's really plot this out and map it out with a timeline. How much do we need to save?

How much time is it going to take to save it? Can we can we work as we go? And really just create a plan. It's going to give you guys a lot of peace.

>> Yeah.

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Ryan is on the line in Kansas City.

Ryan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me, guys.

>> Absolutely. What's your question? So, I

have a financial adviser and uh we were

kind of going through the baby steps and I was kind of telling them where I wanted to go with the baby steps and I

was getting my 401k investments up to about 15%. I was at 13, my wife was at 12 and he told me, "Hey, have you ever

thought that you might have too much in retirement and you might want to live a little bit more freely now?" And so he suggested that we kind of knock it down to 8% because my company matches my 8%

at 11%. And so he suggested that that's

too much money going into retirement and we should live more freely currently.

And I was hoping to get your guys's opinion on is this the right move or should I still be pushing to get done with baby step 4.

>> Wow. I've never heard of a financial adviser telling you to invest less. I mean, are are you guys already financially independent? Do you have millions of dollars? >> Yeah. What do you have?

>> Okay. So, we don't have millions. We've got 350 put away in our 401ks between my

wife and I. We make combined I make 111.

She makes 118 a year. And then I also get 24,000 from disability from the

military service. Uh, and we have two

kids. And I I kind of want to start saving for my kids college fund. And that's why cuz I've got a 7-year-old and a four-year-old and I'm scared that I'm

not going to be able to just cash flow that for them. I want to start building 529. That's kind of where all this came in. >> And you don't have the margin to do the investing that you're doing and put aside some. >> You guys make a great income.

>> Well, thank you. And uh right now we're

kind of struggling to do both.

Why? Something that that means something is out of proportion.

>> Yeah, lifestyle creep.

>> There it is. Thank you for the self-awareness, Ryan. I love that. >> We didn't have to pull it out of you.

>> Well, let's go back to the So, we've got lifestyle creep going on, George. And let's also go back to and answer the question from the the adviser. So, I I love the fact that you have an 8% match that kicks in at 11%. I think that's that's very cool.

And I think that that's gravy because the truth is you could switch jobs and there not be a match to that extent. And I just love the idea of when you're in baby step 4 understanding what it feels like to flex your muscle of investing 15%. And that way if it ever goes away, you're just used to like this is what I do. This is what I do.

benefit that it actually is uh for you building wealth. So, I actually wouldn't take the advice of the adviser. If you truly are on baby step four, I think that you need to do baby step four and and sock that money away. Now, to that point, if it's tight, I'm looking at other areas on the budget, George, to see what's going on here.

>> So, 38K is about 15% of your gross income based on my calculations. So, that's how much we want to be putting away into tax advantage retirement accounts regardless of the match.

>> So, that's that's step one. Once you have that going, then we move on to college savings and set a goal. You can use an investment calculator on our website and go, "All right, if we put 400 bucks away for the older one, 300

bucks away for the younger one, we're going to have this much by the time they turn 18, plus we might need to cash flow some. They get scholarships,

yada yada." So, that that's where you form a game plan for that. And then you guys also have a mortgage.

>> We do. Yep. And that's uh 20 uh $2,040

$2,44 a month.

>> Okay, that's very reasonable considering your your take-home pay, which I imagine is your take-home pay like 15 grand a month.

>> Uh it's it's a little shy of that. It's 14. It's It's a little over 14K. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. >> And then you get those bonuses at the end of the year. So now I'm going, okay, how do we budget this 14K in such a way that we're able to invest for our kids first before we have every little luxury in life? And my guess is you can find some wiggle room and fund money in $14,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're right.

And we're trying to So we just I just downloaded every dollar and I finished my first month last month in April.

>> So we just started budgeting to identify where we could uh when everything was red and I overspent. Not the best, but it helped.

It was eye opening, I think, is the best way to say it. It was eye opening to see where the money was actually going versus where we thought it was going.

>> So, you saw the lifestyle creep happening >> the but the crazy part is you were doing that already, but just delusionally >> instead of intentionally. So, now you know, now you can do better and go, "All right, we need to cut in this area.

Here's where the money leaks happened. We thought we were spending 200 bucks eating out. It was really 500 bucks. We need to ratchet down on that.

So now you and your wife can create a game plan and spit shake and stick to it and go, "All right, we're going to cut these areas down, ramp this area up, add this investment." And what I do, Ryan, is I auto invest it to my kids 529 plan so that the paycheck hits, I don't see that money. It happens on payday. So by the time I have a chance to even look at the bank account, the money's already building wealth for me. That's the kind of mindset you need to get into is being so proactive that whatever is left and whatever the fun stuff is that floats to the bottom.

The priorities are at the top. >> And to George's point, and that that's such a good point, George, for anybody who's listening, whatever you can automate, you automate your 401k, obviously that's coming out of your check automatically. 529 coming out of the check automatically. If you're putting money aside for syncing funds, it's coming out auto.

And when you do that, then when you actually receive your check into your account, you're you're already used to what that amount is and you don't miss. Does that make sense? Like you don't miss the money that's gone out. >> You force the boundaries to do the smart thing that you know is good for you.

>> Okay. So, really quickly, especially cuz George, you're on the phone and you always use the retirement calculator. I was using the retirement calculator on Ramsey Solutions and I plugged it in. I plugged all of our stats in and it's showing that in retirement it could be up to like with the 11.8% 8% that you suggest it could be up to 22 to $24

million in retirement.

>> That's to me I feel like if I sacrificed

a little bit of that now it would make sense because I could pay you know I I feel like I'm going to be fine in retirement anyways, but getting kids through college might be tight. We still think drive to the 15%.

And then just focus on the budget, crack it down and and go through with the 529s as well. The reason, okay, I I would love to talk about that a little bit because I do think uh if you had called in today and you were like, "Hey, we've been socking money away. We've got $4 million, you know, and you had accumulated a certain amount of wealth." I >> Well, give me a little bit, Jade.

>> I would have definitely felt the the feeling of do we have to be quite so intense? I mean, we're going to have so much money. I could understand that, but you're not quite there yet. Therefore, the choices that you make today really, really matter. Um, and how you craft your lifestyle really, really matters.

And where you are, where you're making this really great income, it's so easy to get sloppy because you do have the cash flow and you can do you know what I'm saying? Like your income can kind of cover up things, but the truth is if you're making this income and the margin is not there for you to do the baby steps, that is a huge red flag that man, we do need to tighten it up. If I looked at my budget today, George, and I said, "For some reason, there's just not 15% there to invest." You'd look at me like I was on the crazy train.

Like, what in the world are you? >> Because the truth is, I'll find it.

>> Hidden in Door Dash. Yeah, absolutely.

And so for you, um, Ryan, I think you have the opportunity to to really look at your lifestyle and put the correct boundaries in the correct place. And that's something that's going to serve you well beyond this of being able to have the discipline of saying,"I know when I'm off the rails and here's what it looks like." So, it's more of a philosophical thing for me than a if you don't do this. Does that make sense?

You're going to have plenty of money >> and there's a lot worse that you could do. Okay? So, hear me say that.

>> The other part of this is there are a lot of assumptions made. Like, it's fun to punch it into a calculator and go, "Cool, that's how much I'm going to have." But we also don't know what the returns will be, what inflation will be, will your income stay this high forever?

What if there's a a health diagnosis?

What if one person wants to stay home?

And so you have to factor in a whole lot of options. So I like to be a little bit pessimistic about the future to force myself to do smart things. And if you

have too much money, that's just more impact you can have on your family, your community, the things you are passionate about. So I wouldn't be too worried about having too much. But I think creating the habit of at least investing 15%, especially with your low mortgage compared to your income, I think you can find this money easily and it'll be a great exercise for you, you and your wife to to be a little less sloppy with the spending cuz you can out earn your stupidity with the money you guys make.

>> You know, the money leaks can happen. You don't really feel them. >> So adding some friction back in and putting your money where it matters, man, you're going to feel so good being proactive and intentional instead of just going, "Yeah, we'll be all right.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at88255225.

Max is in Minneapolis up next. What's going on Max?

>> Hey George. Hey Jade. How are you guys?

>> We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Hey. Yeah, just I had a quick question for you guys. Uh my wife and I are in baby step two. Um, and I just received a

pretty significant job offer. Um, I mean, I'm just I'm really struggling with the idea of leaving my current employer and just I I really don't know how to how to leave an employer that's been so loyal to me. Um, I just was

wondering what your thoughts were. >> Wow. What's the um pay now and what will you be making?

>> Um, currently I'm I'm an electrician, so I'm an apprentice. Um, I'm making 28 an

hour right now. Um, and the new job offer at the other place would be 50 an hour. >> Wa. >> Wow.

>> That's a pretty serious upgrade, man.

That's almost doubling your income.

>> Yeah. By by a lot.

>> So, explain to us the the trouble that you're having with um So, it's not the move, it's not the job, it's strictly, man, I'm loyal to these people. They've been good to me. How do I tell them? Is that is that it?

>> Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I one of the biggest things that he helps my wife and I with um he owns duplexes

um in town and he gives us 750 off a

month on rent just for working for him.

>> Mhm. >> So that's a pretty that helps us a lot just with our living living expenses. Um

and I mean part of being electrician to become a journeyman which um is the next step. um you have to take a pretty big test and he takes his time out of Saturday mornings to come into work outside of work hours to help me study and help me understand what the test is going to be like and he just does a lot for me and gives me a van to drive.

>> It sounds like he's a friend. It sounds like he's just as much a good friend and a good person as he is a good boss, >> mentor. Super generous. That's awesome.

How long have you been there?

>> Uh five years. >> Okay. Is it is it fair to say let's

let's because I'm kind of going somewhere with the idea that he's he's not just a boss, he's been a good friend. So if if a friend called you up and told you some really great news,

>> how would you feel? >> Yeah. >> Even if it kind offfected affected you, but you can tell, man, this is really good for them. How would you feel?

>> I would feel very excited >> for them. >> Were you out there like looking for this job?

>> Um not really. I just have um other

friends who um are in a similar position who had already taken before me and there's just more to come to. They're just they're looking for people. They're looking for guys guys that are hungry to work and >> yeah. Well, I what I wouldn't do is just stay in it for loyalty.

I would have the conversation with a whole lot of gratitude and let him know

exactly how you feel. Man, >> you honestly changed my life over the last 5 years. the way you've mentored me, the generosity you've had toward me and my family, the things you've done for us outside of this place, it has impacted me and I'm going to take that with me forever. But there's an opportunity that is going to change our our family's finances and help us get out of debt, help us build wealth, and we're going to take that opportunity.

But I want to let you know that this place means the world to me and I hope that we can remain friends. How would he handle that?

>> I I think he would handle that that pretty well. I think I'm just a little too nervous about what what the reaction will be. >> Yeah. Well, I I think uh it's probably worse in your head than what's I don't think he's going to yell at you and go, "After everything I did for you, this is how you treat me." >> I mean, if he knew you were going to double your income, he should be happy for you as a mentor.

>> Absolutely. >> The reason he did all this was because he believed in you and he wanted you to grow as a person, as an electrician. And a natural byproduct of that is when you grow, you outgrow. >> Yeah.

And I think I think mature adults understand that few nothing lasts forever, you know, and and few things last for a really really really really really really long time, right? So I think that's just part of life. You to George's point, you grow and sometimes you outgrow and you you you can move on from different spaces and that's okay.

>> Yeah. >> I would be more worried if he was like a toxic boss. you know, I got to bring him this news and he's a narcissistic jerk and he's not going to take kindly to it.

But a great example is our friend Ken Coleman who recently left Ramsay.

perfect example. >> He was here 12 years, friend to Dave's before he got here, friend to Dave's after he left. And he had a very honest conversation with Dave and led with a whole lot of gratitude cuz I mean Ken and I, you know, we grew up here. feel like u especially me and I I kind of took over for Ken when I started here as a host and MC and so my journey and Ken's intertwined and as he shared it

all you like he was dripping with gratitude for the way Dave has treated him the the team here and nobody felt any level of wow I thought Ken was loyal

we know he was he was loyal up until the day he left and now he's just a loyal friend. >> Yeah. And so I think you're gonna have to This is like the first breakup of other breakups and the first one always the first one hits the deepest.

>> First cut is the deepest. >> I knew you're going there. >> I didn't want to sing it but I wanted to just know that. >> Cheryl Crow. >> So Max, I think you have the emotional maturity to have this conversation. And luckily I think he has the emotional maturity to handle it. And I'm I'm honestly just so happy for you.

>> And I'm not even your friend. I mean I guess I'm a new friend. But >> if he finds out you're going to double your income, he can't pay you that, right? It's not like he's underpaying you right now.

>> No, he I don't think he could match that. >> Exactly. And I think that's a fair You're not doing this to try to like manipulate him into paying you more cuz he can't. >> Yeah.

>> And so therefore, it's not like a tactic you're using. >> Uh you're just >> changing your family tree right now as a young electrician who has a lot of room for growth. And I think you're going to find that if he's a real one, he's going to stick with you as a friend in the long haul and he's going to be cheering you on from the sidelines.

>> Um, it's union, so I kind of pick where I want to work. Um, but there's pdium and stuff that comes with it.

>> Okay. And are you going to choose to move or are you going to choose to stay put?

>> Okay. And are you still going to live in the duplex with that that your old boss

offers you? Um, so it's I'm locked in

for a year with um he hired out a

management company. So it's technically through a management company. It's not necessarily just >> you're not dealing with him directly.

>> Okay. I wanted to know how that's going to I could >> see some Yeah. some awkwardness there.

>> Get out. >> Okay. What how much debt do you have left? >> Uh we have 22,000 in consumer debt.

>> Awesome. And you're going to be making 100K on your own when you take this new job? >> Yeah. Our our take-home pay with this new income would be around 106 a month.

>> Woo. Like that, >> man. That's pretty wild. Which means you're going to get rid of this debt fast, build up an emergency fund fast, be investing double what you would have been. Uh, and I I think that's an amazing feat at your age to be in that place and nobody would fault you for it.

>> Nope.

>> Yeah, that's that's the goal, >> man. And if you want, here's what I would do. I would practice the conversation. like you can write a letter first to kind of get all the words out there because when you start the actual conversation, it's going to be like a word vomit and you're going to be nervous and it's going to be emotional.

And so just knowing ahead of time how you want it to go and kind of knowing the flow in the arc. I want to start with the generosity. I want to then enter with the opportunity, >> end with how grateful I am for this friendship. And then you guys can get into logistics.

>> And I think quickly you'll find his facial expression will be that of maybe surprise, maybe a little bit like, oh man. But then at the end, happiness for a friend.

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Joseph is in Tampa. Up next, Joseph, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> Good. Um, I don't really know how to put it in a question, but I have a lot of

debt. I'm not really sure where to go,

and um, honestly, I just feel like I'm

failing my fiance and our two kids, and

I just need help. >> Wow. Those are some fighting words. How much debt do you have? >> Yeah. Um, total

$77,67.

>> Okay. What kind of debt is that? break it down for us.

>> Um, it's 34,000

in credit cards, uh, personal loans, and

a broken rental lease. Um, about 29,000

in a pickup, and about 14,600

in student loans.

>> Okay. So, the overall is I want to get

out of this. I want to let go of the stress. I want to do more for my family financially.

>> Yeah.

>> Sorry. >> It's all right. You take your time. This is I mean there's a lot here. I can tell this has been weighing on you a long time. >> Yeah, it's really hard. It's really hard.

>> What um what caused this? Was there a an

incident that kind of caused a snowball in the wrong direction or is this just a couple of decades of, you know, just not being intentional and just letting life happen? >> Um, so I'm only 25 and it I mean I don't

want to make excuses for myself, but I grew up and watched my parents be really bad with money. Um, have a lot of debt and they still do. Um,

so I mean I didn't really know what a debit card was growing up. I knew what a credit card was, you know. >> I understand.

>> Okay. >> And so the last few years, you know, just making dumb decisions and and now I've matured a little bit and realized that I messed up and I got to fix it.

>> So you you're working. What are you earning? >> Yes. Um, I don't know the exact I think

it's almost 71,000 a year.

>> Okay. What does it look like a month? What's your paychecks look like every time you bring them home?

>> Um, about $1,200 a week.

>> Okay. $1,200 a week. And what about your fiance?

>> Um, she stays home with the kids.

>> Okay. And how old are the kids?

>> Um, our daughter is almost four and our son just turned two.

>> Okay.

And is there a wedding insight or?

>> Um, we've been thinking about going to the courthouse, but we've also kind of agreed that we need to tackle some of this debt first before we can start saving for a wedding.

>> Okay. I would Okay.

What are your monthly expenses you guys have? Um, so everything that I'm

actively paying on comes out to $1,870

a month. >> That's just the debt.

>> No, that's just like my my pickup payment and then all my bills.

>> Okay. That's not the That's not your full >> Are you guys renting right now?

>> Um, we are currently with my in-laws

right now. >> Okay. So, you have very little housing expenses, which is good. Yes.

>> Do you have a little bit of margin right now to throw extra on on your smallest debt?

>> Um, the way I've got it calculated, and I could have it calculated wrong, is I

have about 250 bucks a week left over

>> to,000 bucks a month to throw extra on the smallest debt. >> Have you Have you built a budget yet?

Because if you don't have every dollar, we need to get you in that because I think it's going to give you a better visibility into all of this. Have you Have you tried that?

I have um downloaded every dollar

before. I can't tell you that I've used it. I just have a piece of paper in front of me with the cost of all my bills and you know how it comes out each month. >> Before we get off the line, we're going to make sure you have every dollar because it's going to help you in so many ways.

Number one, it's going to give you a clear picture of what your income is, what your expenses are, and it's going to help you with the most important thing next. and that's what you need to focus on. Um, and just being able to see once you plug in, okay, here's my income, here's all the expenses, here's how much margin I have per month. Looking at it on a weekly basis is helpful, but really seeing it for the month and seeing those lump sums is is even more helpful.

Um, and I think that's going to give you a clearer picture on what's actually going on. And then you'll know, okay, I have, you know, $800 or I have $1,000 every single month that I can throw at the smallest debt, which in this case, uh, is the student loan, but I have questions about this $29,000 truck.

more about that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was 22. Um,

thought I was doing well for myself and I mean, at the time it wasn't the worst, but I'm doing way better now. And I

>> what's it worth decided that?

>> Um probably right about I actually talked to my buddy. He's a car salesman, but he said he can blue book it at right about 28. So I think about what it's worth. >> Okay. So I if I were in your shoes, I'd be offloading that truck immediately. Do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> I have $400 in a savings account.

>> Okay. So here's the plan. I'm going to give you a step-by-step plan. Thing one, I want you going by a credit union.

this weekend and I want you to say, "I need 5,000 bucks." And that's going to be the money that you spend on your used vehicle. It's going to be a beater. It's going to suck. It's going to have a lot of miles on it, but it's going to be like a Toyota or something that runs forever.

Okay? So, that's thing one. And then thing two is you need to get $1,000 saved. So, you need $600 more in a hurry.

So, I want you going through your house, you and your fiance, looking at every single thing that you can buy or post or you know what I'm saying to sell because you need $1,000 saved. That's baby step one.

>> $930 a month.

>> And that's without the insurance.

>> That Yeah, my insurance I cover my fiance's as well is 330.

>> Yeah. So you having that nice >> 1,200 bucks freed up on top of the thousand that you said you can throw at the debt. Now we're we're moving. You see what's happening here? We just freed up 2200 to throw at your smallest debt, >> right? >> Which is over 25 grand a year.

>> So worst case, if you just did that and nothing else, you're done in three years. So I want to show you there is a way out if you just get really focused and follow this plan exactly as we teach it. If you go, well, I want to just take parts of it, it's not going to work. You got to go all in. >> Now let's go back to the fiance. So, um,

you don't you don't have the money saved for the wedding. Tell me about the courthouse. Can you guys just go down to the courthouse and get married legally, so it's done and done?

>> Um, I think so. Um, I mean, I don't

really know all the rules better than I do. >> It's just a certificate. It's just something you both sign.

>> Okay.

>> Told me in the past that even if we do a courthouse wedding that she said she would still want a dress and a photographer and a tux.

>> Here's what I'm getting at. And and this is what here's where my mind is going.

Uh you guys want to be married. You have a family together. I would love for you guys to be able to link arms on this and

attack this together because it's for both of your future. You called in here sounding like you just have a pit in your stomach. It's because you're looking at the future with this woman and with your kids and you want to do better for that, right? And so what better what better way to start than to fully commit.

Now today you don't have the money for, you know, a big party. If she wants to put on her best dress and go down to the courthouse, I think that's great. Or if you guys simply want to say, "Today, this is kind of our secret and we're going and we're signing the paper. Nobody really has to know about it.

And then after, you know, in a year or however long, once we calculate that this is done, then we can throw the big party and we can tell our all of our friends and it can be this funny story that we tell, hey, we were married all along. We just didn't. Right? That's fine.

But for today, what I want is the security of you knowing that you can talk to her and include this her in this and her income now counts towards this and now it's just not your debt, it's her debt, too.

Okay. >> And I don't want you to feel the pressure of I've got to clean this up first before you got children.

>> Yeah. >> That's a great why, by the way, Joseph.

One of the best wise is those kids and that woman who you love. And so, I want to circle back to what you said at the beginning that you're failing your family. Well, let me tell you this.

Failure is an event. It's not an identity. Failure is a comma. It's not a

comma. So, don't let it be. That's not who you are. You made some mistakes at 22. Welcome to the club, man. Now it's who am I going to be tomorrow and the next day and the next day. You live that out. We're going to hook you up with every dollar to walk you through it and my book Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to call us back when you're married, when you're debtree. We want to celebrate every single milestone with you, buddy.

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Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. A lot of questions about buying and selling a house, investing, and budgeting. But the top question was around retirement savings accounts.

>> Yeah, the specific question was, should I only contribute to a 401k or switch to a Roth IRA? Good question.

>> Juicy, nerdy debate.

>> Very juicy. >> There's a lot of variables here. So, number one, if you're still paying off debt, you pause all investing. So, this is a question for later. If you have paid off all your debt, you got 3 to six months of expenses saved, then you should be investing 15% of your gross household income into tax advantage retirement accounts like 401ks and Roth IAS. So to start, we say match first. So

if you have an employer match inside of a 401k, then take that first >> free money. >> Then you can go to a Roth IRA. Yes.

Next, finally, if you run out of money, like you've you max out the Roth IRA, you can go back to your traditional 401k until you hit 15%.

>> I love that. We call that rule of thumb here, match beats Roth beats traditional. And part of that, like we said, yeah, match is free money. That's free money that your company is giving you.

You don't want to miss out on that instantly. >> Yes, of course. And then, of course, you know, the Roth IRA, that's going to give you the tax-free growth and taxfree withdrawal in retirement. We love a Roth.

If you have a Roth 401k, go like ham on that immediately.

>> So, if you want to play around with your numbers, your situation, have the conversation with Ask Ramsey. It'll help you determine how much of your household income needs to go into each retirement account. And you can ask all of your questions today at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Stephanie is in Detroit up next. Stephanie, what's up?

>> Hi, I uh am graduating from medical

school next week with a lot of debt. Uh

my question is, do you think making minimum income driven payments to qualify for um the public service loan

forgiveness is a smart strategy or am I taking too much risk relying on a government program uh potentially acrewing more interest if the program is canled? Very thoughtfully worded,

Stephanie. I appreciate that.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah, I'm, you know, people hear us on the show and they go, "Wow, these people really hate student loan forgiveness." No, we're just pro people taking control of their life. It's not even a responsibility thing. There's nothing wrong with the public student loan forgiveness program. It's just really hard to actually get it done and it's a long time and you're still making payments the whole way. And you're also limiting your income because you kind of

have to work in a certain >> place in order to get that forgiveness.

And if that changes, well, you're out.

And so that's the risk that I'm more worried about. Not it being cancelled entirely, but more just you don't know what the future holds. And I don't want to limit you. If you get an amazing job offer in the private sector, but you can't take it because you have these golden handcuffs, that's a real bummer.

But truthfully, the data on it, I mean, the data on it is not good. And I'll just tell you right now, at this point, like currently, only 5.5%

of the applications are approved for forgiveness. So that means 93% of the applications are denied.

>> That's telling me there's a chance.

That's a horri like that's hor that's that's a horrible shot, you know, to risk how many years of your life >> doing a job that maybe you don't want to do just to possibly get the chance at this. So, how many how much student loans do you have?

>> I have 300 about 315,000,

which is a lot. Um, I'm starting residency in June at a place that does qualify and I'll have about six years of training um that would go towards the 10

years. So that's kind of where like you

know I'd only have four years as a practicing physician elsewhere um that I would need to finish to qualify.

>> And what do you think you'll be making?

>> Um after fellowship I'll probably be making between 350 and 400.

>> That's fantastic. That's excellent.

>> I mean well here's the napkin math on that. If you can just for a short time let's say we can go both ways. Let's say you did it four years, you made the minimum payments, so you still paid into it, but maybe you got the rest forgiven after four years. >> Cool.

We did it. Let's look at the other side where you are in full control and you just attack it with a vengeance and keep living like a broke college student in residency.

That leaves you with 300 grand you could throw at the debt. So you'd be done in 18 months, >> right? >> Instead of hoping that four years from now or whatever it is that it's it's paid off. So either way, I think you could try it. But I think I like the odds of of Stephanie more than the government program working out.

>> Right. I guess we're just I'm I'm engaged and one of the things we wonder is should we be putting more money towards the loan right now or should we try to like buy a home and and you know

pay a mortgage. >> I just think that >> that's kind of where we go. >> I listen we had a dentist call in earlier um similar question similar amount of debt and he had the same struggle is like hey I'm getting to that point in my life I want to start a family. I want to buy a house. I also have this crippling debt. And don't forget, you know, with the mortgage, you're taking on debt. You're taking on more risk. You're taking on more financial responsibility in your life.

And when I hear somebody that has $315,000 of debt, and then you say, "Oh, and I'm thinking of buying a house on top of that." That just feels like the

ultimate stressor because now you're cutting into your margin because home ownership, George, I don't have to tell you, it's one expense after another. I mean, >> especially as a newlywed couple, there's no reason you guys have to jump into a home. I mean, just rent for a year, enjoy your newlywed life without all of the stresses of home ownership. Yes, there's some there's some blessings in there, but if you do it with a huge mortgage, you can't afford, which, by the way, you'll have close to nothing down, which is going to make your mortgage huge on top of the student loan debt.

you know, a farce because it's 315 grand

no matter what the payment is every month. >> That's a good point. And if you really think about this, um Stephanie, the house that you would choose to purchase uh on a $400,000 income is uh if you had

no debt, the house that you would choose is very different than the one that you would choose if you had 315,000 in debt.

Am I wrong or am I right?

Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, I think it's worth it. It behooves you to to wait on this. Get the debt paid off. By then, maybe you're even earning a little bit more money >> and your then husband will be working, too. >> That's right.

>> Yeah. He's he works um >> What's he doing? >> We you know, he works as a breast salesman. Um so, he does well for

himself. We're just not planning on combining anything until we're married next year. So, >> but think about that. Let me walk you through that. If you get debt free, let's say before you're married, let's say you follow this in 18 months or whatever, you do this. Now, obviously, you need to be out of residency making that kind of money, so you'll probably be married by then. But if you can pay off the debt in 18 months, 315 grand, then you can save up another 315 grand in 18 months.

>> Yeah. Well, my my income won't be that for another six years, though.

>> Yeah. So, that's a ways away. So, even when you're married, though, when you combine incomes once you're married, you'll still be able to start knocking out this debt even before you're making that kind of money, >> right? And so it still tells me, I'm just saying within 3 years of being married, four years, you're probably going to be debtree with an emergency fund and a down payment.

>> But you just have to stay focused. >> Impossible to me. >> It'll happen. You'll be shocked at how fast you'll move. Yep.

>> Uh once you guys are married and you have two people working toward the same goal, now that's that's hoping that he's on the same page as you that you guys have the same >> money values, principles, goals, that's going to cause you to move so much faster. and I have great faith that you're going to be just fine, but I would focus on on paying it off because of your situation.

>> Yeah. >> So, I wouldn't do it personally, but I'm not mad at you if you do it. >> And don't take my word for it, Stephanie. Get get on the on the interwebs, get on chat GBT and look it up for yourself and you're going to you will be astounded >> at the numbers and at the data on this and you're going to go, "Oh crap, >> she was right.

I wish she wasn't." Listen, I wish I wasn't right. I wish that this was a guaranteed move for you and it would happen and it'd be a light switch, but that's just unfortunately that's just not the way it is. >> Yeah.

problem is people are now going into massive amounts of debt without really feeling it. >> That's right. because they're going, "Well, it'll I could probably get it forgiven later, hopefully. Fingers crossed." >> Well, what what it's hiding under is the rate has actually increased, but when you say, "Oh, we've gone from 3% or we've gone from 1% to 3% or 3% to 5%."

It's still 5%. That's terrible.

>> Now, it's five out of 100 people who are going to get it.

Heat. Heat. N.

All

right, Jay, let's talk about insurance.

Everybody needs it. Nobody wants to talk about it and it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck trying to find agents who know their stuff. But we've got you.

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>> Amen. >> Love to see that. I just upped my life insurance last night and I felt real good about it. Went over to Xander, got the quote. Yeah, >> filled out the application. It was a breeze. 5 minutes on my phone. >> Love that. >> And I slept a little bit better at night. So now >> I think I need some blood work done.

>> That's the fun part.

>> A little bit. Well, the one time they hit a they hit a a valve. I didn't know I had those, but apparently we all do.

And so uh I had I never gave blood after that. Let me just say that.

>> That was painful. >> Somebody just passed out whilst they were driving listening to >> Sorry, guys. My bad. My bad. All right,

let's go to the phones. Blake is in Chattanooga, Tennessee. What's going on, Blake? >> Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> So, I have a question um about retirement. So, right now, my husband and I, we're on baby steps four, five, and six. We are not hitting the 15% of

our income, and I'm not sure where to go. So, we already maxed out our IAS.

We're doing 12% in my husband's 401k through work, which is about 12 or 13 grand. And that does only brings us to

27,000 on a low year. Like if we take a low month, 30 grand a month roughly. That's a low month for us. That's 360 grand a year, right? >> We're coming up pretty short on 15% for

the year. So >> good problem to have. >> I love that. So what is your gross household income for the year? Give me a ballpark on that.

Um, the lowest it would be is about 360, but probably somewhere closer to I'm hoping 450 this year.

>> Woohoo. >> So, you're maxing out the 401k. You're each doing a Roth IRA. You're maxing out those. Are you doing an HSA as well?

>> No, we do not do an HSA.

>> Okay. Um, I I love this problem. I mean,

I can tell you, George, you >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm calcul I'm going off of that $450,000 number and we're going to go 15% of that is 67,500.

>> Okay. >> So, if you both max out a 401k, is that what I'm hearing? >> Mhm. >> No, I don't have a 401k, just him.

>> Okay. So, we're going to do max out his 401k, I believe. Is that 24500 this year? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we've got that done. Now, both of you can do a backdoor Roth IRA because your income is too high for ath you do that. So that's 15 grand, 7,500 a piece. >> Yes. >> Okay. And do you guys have access to a high deductible healthare plan?

>> Mm-m.

>> We I feel like that's what we have. Yes.

Is a high deductible healthare plan.

>> So you should have the HSA. >> If you do, then you have the ability to open the HSA >> for it. We don't we don't ever use it because we don't really >> we don't ever really go to the doctor or need the money. >> Well, here's the life hack.

That's even better. You fund this thing and any money above a threshold, like any money above a thousand bucks, you can invest just like an IRA.

>> And I think it's 8,500 a year you can do. >> Yeah, I think like 8750 or something for the family. So I would max that out as well if you have access to that. That's another 8750. And then you he might have

access to something called a mega backdoor 401k.

And this is where you can do after tax contributions and then convert it over

to a Roth IRA. So he can look into that.

But honestly, once you've done the 401k,

the IRA, the HSA, I might then just go

to a taxable brokerage account and invest in index funds and kind of have a what I would call a bridge account because I assume you guys are young.

Yes. 3536 count.

>> Amazing. So this bridge account, let's say you wanted to be work optional at 50 or 55. Well, this bridge account in this brokerage account that's not a retirement account, you can just use that money. You'll pay, you know, capital gains taxes on any of the growth, but you can use that money to float you until you hit 59 and a half to access the retirement accounts without penalty.

>> Okay. So that's what I would be doing in that order of, you know, we talk about match, then Roth, then traditional, and then outside of that, you got the HSAs, you have the backdoor options. Then if you've exhausted all of those because you want to take advantage of anything that has tax advantages, then go to the brokerage account and just invest outside of retirement to finish it out.

>> Okay, that makes sense. >> Yeah. So you might be putting, you know, 20, 30 grand into that brokerage account. And if one day you may have an employer plan, then I would start utilizing that.

>> Yes, sir. >> You're doing great. What's your net worth at? You said 35.

>> Yes. Oh, probably not very much. Our I

mean, we owe a bit on our house. I mean, we've got our emergency fund. I don't know, actually. >> Oh, there's an idea. You know what I would do personally?

I might use that extra money and throw it at the mortgage.

>> We do. We pay $1,500 extra a month to our towards our towards our house right now >> on top of the normal payment.

>> Yes, correct. >> Make it 3,000. Let's get root now. How much faster will it get paid off at that point? How many years? >> Yeah. Uh it's a 30-year loan. We bought the house probably a year and a half ago. I think we owe $490 on it. So, it's

pretty hefty payment. $3,500.

>> Um >> I'd start chipping away at that thing >> and knocking it out in like seven. I would have a goal to have it paid off in about seven years with your income.

>> Seven years.

>> You can do it. >> You guys make half a million dollars. I mean, >> not that it's easy, but you can definitely accomplish this. If you throw, let's say, a hundred grand a year at it, you're done in four years, five years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that's plausible for you guys. Yeah.

>> I mean, that's throwing like what, seven, eight grand a month at the mortgage total.

>> So, I think it's very doable. I would sit down with your uh husband tonight and start crunching some numbers and setting some real tactical goals. And I think that's going to put some fire under you guys to get even more intentional with everything you're doing. And then I would automate it all so that you don't have to think about it.

Less brain calories. >> Love that. >> That's a great problem to have. I love that question.

All right, Derek is in Grand Rapids up next. What's happening, Derek? >> Hey, so I had a question. And I've got some people that are calling me for wanting me pick me up as a client for their financial advising services.

paint you a quick picture. I'm a self-employed. I'm a real estate agent.

Been doing it for six years. So, my income is not guaranteed. Um, I own a

house. I'm married with one kid. And my

goal so far has been to just pay off the house as quickly as possible. We don't have any other consumer debt other than the house. And my dad's been getting on my case about starting investing in some

more traditional ways. Um, and one of

those ways is he said, "I need to get life insurance because I have a kid and I need to start investing in traditional accounts." Well, this financial advisor, I I know Ramsay's position on whole life insurance and that it's terrible and I agree. Um, but he presented this thing

called a variable life insurance plan.

Um, and it sounds good. And I feel like

I'm missing a downside.

>> Oh, I bet he made it sound good. Do Do you know why, Derek? Do you know why he would pitch you a VUL over term life insurance? >> Well, I'm guessing he'll make a lot more money. >> Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. This guy wants a fat commission check. And let me be clear, he's not a financial adviser. He's an insurance salesman.

>> Yes, >> in financial adviser clothing.

>> Could be. He probably calls himself does he call himself a wealth strategist on Instagram?

>> I don't I don't know. I'm not on Instagram. >> Okay, that's the tell. By the way, if they call they don't and their websites are always a little bit vague and sketchy like what is he actually >> Yeah, cuz it's investments, but you don't have to have a securities license to sell variable. >> That's the scary part. Uh they can get away with with kind of selling investments through the insurance policy. But no, these are these are terrible investments and the returns are awful. The commissions are super high.

the premiums are super high. So, here's what I would do instead. Get term life insurance to cover the insurance side, which is going to be a fraction of the cost, like 20, 30, 40, 50 bucks a month.

And then invest the difference >> policy. The term policy he presented was like 28 bucks a month. >> There you go. Super cheap. >> And then whatever premium he was pitching you, if it was going to be $500, just invest that $472

difference on your own, and you'll be so much better off. Otherwise, you're going to be calling me back in 5 years going, "Hey, how do I surrender this awful policy that I my friend roped me into or family friend roped me into?" No. And I wouldn't get any financial advice from him in the future because it's tainted now. You already know he's trying to steer you towards products that make him money, not build you wealth.

>> Yes. >> Big difference. Big difference. Thanks for the call, man.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

We're taking your calls at88255225.

Beth is in Pensacola up next. What's going on, Beth?

>> Hey, >> how you doing?

>> Good. How are you? >> Good. What's your question today?

>> Okay, so I have $80,000 cash, but I have

a three and a halfyear-old mobile home that I owe $86,000 on that's completely falling apart due to manufactured defects. Um, it's completely rotted. We have mold. We really need to get out of here. Um, and but then I also have

student loans. So, I'm trying to figure out like, do I take the 80k, pay off the house, and just walk away from it all, or do I take the money to fix the house, which estimates right now are between 60 and $90,000. Goodness gracious.

>> Or do I get the student loan monkey off my back? >> How much are the student loans?

>> Um, so between me and my husband, it's 85,000.

85,000. Where did this 80,000 cash come from? >> Um, so we actually purchased property that we were going to move the mobile home to, but in its current condition, if we take it apart, it's a double wide.

It's in a trailer park right now. Um, if we were to try to put it back together, the engineers say that it would probably never go back together, right? So, we sold the property and so now we have the money from the property that we purchased. >> Got it. Got it. So, what would this thing sell for even if you did the repairs?

>> Like nothing. That's That's what I'm trying to figure out. >> It's not worth sinking 90,000 into it when it's already not worth that, >> right? >> So, could you get anything for it right now? >> Um, I've tried. I've not had any luck.

I've honestly been trying to move out of here since I purchased the place because nothing is basically what I was sold.

But um >> how much did you purchase it for?

>> So it was worth 129. I purchased it for 105 at a discount in exchange for living in the park for four years, which at that time we didn't have the property, so it was okay. Um and then I owe 86 on

it today. >> And you've been in the park for four years? >> Uh we will be in August. So it's our

home's about three and a half years old.

>> Okay. Um man, oh man. And how many how

many um bids have you had on the mold?

Have you checked with several places or just the one that quoted you 60 to 90?

>> Yeah. No, we've been like four months back and forth with the insurance and the mobile home dealer and you know they're saying they're not going to touch it because it's out out of warranty even though another home identical to mine with the identical damage in the same park and he actually just let his home go back to the lender.

But we worked really hard to build our credit. >> Yeah. Where are you living in the meantime? >> My home. >> Where are you living? You can't live in the mold. >> We're still in the house.

>> The hard the hard truth is this just might be a money pit. And either way, it's a money pit. It already has been a money pit. And you might need to just use the savings, pay off the mortgage, and get out of this thing as soon as you can. >> I think so, too. Otherwise, you're gonna go through foreclosure, >> give it back to the bank, >> and it's going to destroy your financial world for a while.

>> Yeah. >> And you guys can save back up 80 grand.

That's not the end of the world, right?

>> It kind of feels like it. We both kind of came from nothing. So, this is like a huge amount of money for us.

>> It is. But let's let's let's paint a picture because I think I think you've been in the midst of this for a while.

And how would it feel to completely be

free of this? There's no mortgage left.

You can walk away from it. Um, scrap it,

right? And then you guys look for an apartment. You're renters now, but there's no mold. And when you come home, it's peaceful and you're not, you know, battling insurance people anymore.

You're not battling. Do you see what I'm saying? There's there's peace on the other side of this. and it might cost you $85,000 or $80,000, but there's so

much peace on the other side of getting rid of this mess.

>> I'm just afraid that um with the rental prices in our area, we're in Northwest Florida, um that we won't be able to

save up to buy our place for like years and years. And I've got an 11year-old now. And I really wanted to give him a safe home, you know, out in the country would have been the dream. Well, what do you guys do for work?

>> Um, so I'm a stay-at-home mom. We have three kids and I homeschool. And then my husband is an engineer. >> And what's he earning? >> And then I do all kinds of side stuff.

Um, he earns right out 100,000.

>> And what do you earn with the side stuff? >> Anywhere between like 10 to 20.

>> Okay. So, $120,000 household income. You

guys can definitely afford rent. It's not going to be fun. It's going to be more than you're paying now on a mobile home, but it's not outrageous.

>> Yeah. Well, it feels right.

>> What's it What's it going to cost? What's the actual rent for a reasonable home? Nothing fancy.

>> Rent for a reasonable home with no mold down here is about $2,000 for a threebedroom. >> Great. >> And we've a onebedroom.

>> Yeah. And we don't have any other bills.

Like we paid everything else off. So, it's 25% of your take home. But

>> you're right there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You're just not used to paying $2,000 for any type of housing.

So, it feels >> outrageous. But for your income and your take-home pay, you're right there.

That's perfect. >> And honestly, rent is the right space for you right now anyway. It's it's passing off risk to the the the landlord, which is great, or to the apartment complex, which is great. you don't have to shell out any extra money for anything else because right now once you get into an apartment that you can afford or a rental house that you can afford, the next thing for you guys to tackle is this 85,000 of student loans.

>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

>> And and I think I I think honestly even

though there was what we would call some stupid tax attached to this, I think this is going to help you guys get right side up and start doing things in the proper order.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know what I'm saying? to where you're really able to achieve that financial peace that clearly you want.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be crying, right? It's it's setting you it's setting you on the right path. And so, that's that's the the learning and that's the piece that comes from all of this is you know what? This is just putting us on the right path. Now, we're doing we're we're walking before we're crawling before we walk. We're walking before we run, which is good.

>> Okay. And honestly, Beth, I I don't want you to drain all of your savings to pay down a mortgage for a mobile home that's worth nothing. So, what I would do first is negotiate with the lender. And you might maybe a short sale is the best move, but I think you could do a negotiated settlement with the lender after explaining all of this, and they might be willing to work with you to take a much smaller amount to call it good and get you guys out.

>> Our credit, >> it may temporarily, but you guys are going to rent for a while. you have no other debt.

>> Okay? >> You're not going to be buying a home in the next, you know, 6 to 12 months.

Let's rent for a while. Let's rebuild.

Let's get rid of the student loans.

Let's build an emergency fund, then save a down payment. So, yes, I know your dreams of having a home in the country and homeschooling. That's still on the table. It's just a not now.

>> Okay? >> This is just a reset period. And I think you're going to have so much peace getting out of this. And by the way, your health and your family's health is worth getting out of this. >> Got to get out of that.

>> Yeah, y'all are right.

>> So, you're not a failure. You're doing the most right now. And you guys were dealt a bad card. And I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with this financially, emotionally, uh, in the midst of some chaos.

>> We work so hard to raise it, you know, to do everything right and then at no fault of our own, we're losing everything. And it's just really hard. H

well, I hope you can >> I hope you can negotiate with that lender, explain your situation. Um because this is I mean, yes, there were some decisions on your part, but there was also just the reality of the defects and the mold that was just out of your control. So, I wish you guys the best in cleaning the mess up and and getting some a fresh start. You deserve that.

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>> Indeed. Today's question comes from Justin in Iowa. He says, "I'm in baby step two and I've been selling items to pay to help pay off my $15,000 of debt.

Currently, I'm just finding free items online and selling them on various sites. >> While I've been doing this, I've seen some inexpensive items that I can purchase at a low price, allowing me to flip them for profit. Is this a good

strategy to pay off my debt?" >> Interesting. >> Arbitrage. >> The old arbitrage move. You go, you go to Goodwill, you find something that you can find on eBay listed right now for five times the price and you flip it.

>> I'd love to know. I think there could be some validity to this, but maybe I'd give you give some guard rails here because what you don't want is you've invested even if it's $400 into a bunch

of items and they've all been sitting on I'll just say the Craigslist to incorporate all of those different sites. They've been sitting on the Craigslist for four and five and six months and before you know it, you're like, "Ah, I thought this thing was going to sell. It didn't." Like that's I feel like that's a sticky that's a slippery slope to get in. Um, >> I like the idea of it almost as a it's kind of like a a little business. Yeah.

And so if you look at it like that, you're going to invest a little bit of your own money to purchase the inventory that you're going to sell. So in that regard, what I would do is set a boundary on it in your budget to say, "Hey, this is how much I can purchase each month to flip, but it's going to come out of the profits from other things I've sold." >> Yes, >> I like that idea. And only after you've done all the research, cuz you can get stareyed and just start buying stuff up hoping you sell it.

No. find out what is constantly selling for consistently at that price point and then make sure that you can still ROI after all the fees and shipping and all of that. >> And I'd even say in addition to I I don't want this to be your only side hustle. I want you to be doing something else that's kind of like guaranteed quick money as well so that you're not getting there's there's the opportunity that this could actually slow you down on your journey versus speed you up if you're investing too much of your profits.

>> Yeah.

you know, she'd buy it for five or 10 bucks, sell it for $300 cuz some of these vintage toys, these parents are like, I want my kid to have the exact thing I had when I was a kid and they'll spend crazy money on it. So, >> and and furniture flipping, that's a huge one. You can make so much on that >> if you're handy and you can do the research. It's not.

Now, you got to think about how much time you're investing into it, >> right? Right. >> Your hourly rate might be $3 an hour after you poured all this into it. So, make sure it's worth your time, but it's a valid business idea.

Very cool. Thanks for the question, Justin.

Jason is with us in Houston up next.

What's going on, Jason?

>> How you doing, George? >> Good. What's your question?

>> Um, well, uh, my grandmother Oh, my mom passed away the first week of December last year. >> Oh, sorry.

>> Thank you so much. Uh, and then my grandmother passed away the week after.

>> Oh boy.

>> Um, yeah, it was a tough month.

Definitely. And my wife's grandmother passed away in January, so upon each other. >> But, uh, anyways, um, since my mom

passed away from my grandmother, my grandmother's inheritance goes to my two

aunts and my sister and I because it goes via the lineage. So, it kind of bypasses my dad.

Um, my dad called me last week and wanted to know if I'd be willing to give my sister my portion of the inheritance from my grandmother's estate uh because she's always been a little behind and everything like that and and uh she needs to really start saving up for retirement stuff like that. She has pretty much nothing saved up and we're we're pretty well off my wife and I over here >> and uh he How much are we talking that

>> uh about 100,000. Uh >> Wow. Wow. Wow. So, you're going to give somebody who has no ability to handle money the most money they've ever seen in their life >> at your detriment, too?

>> Yeah. My dad said he would give me his entire when he passes away, >> which is how much?

>> Well, uh, he's got a house that's worth about uh 280. I think he's got 50 left on the mortgage.

>> So, wait a second. He's saying And now now is this is he holding it hostage? Is he saying if you don't do this, you will not be part of my inheritance? Is that what he's saying? >> No, no, no, no. >> Okay. Okay. Just checking on that.

>> He's just sort of guilting you into it. Like, hey, hey, she could really use the money. You guys are doing okay. What do you think about giving it to her? >> Listen, I'm going to tell you right now, I think that's totally out of bounds that he asked that. >> Isn't she already getting $100,000?

>> She is getting $100,000. Not only that, she was $24,000 in credit card debt. And

uh my mom used to help her out, but she passed away, so she's not going to help her out anymore. >> How about this? Let's let it play out.

Let's see what she does with her $100,000 and see where she is a year from now. >> George, I'm not even letting it play out. >> Well, it's more for entertainment purposes at this point.

>> I'm not saying you should promise him anything. I would not be giving your sister this money. And it's not because you're cruel. No, it's because it's actually going to hurt her, not be a blessing to her. >> And also because it was intended for you. >> My sister's debt. >> It But but here's the thing. Here's the thing. The money was intended for you. There was a portion that was intended for her.

There was an a portion that was intended for you and some that were intended for other family members. There is no obligation for you whether she's doing

well or not doing well. What it doesn't her side of this honestly matters nothing. >> We don't weight inheritance based on who could use it the most. >> No, it was intended for you and it's yours. And if you wanted to do that, that would you would have to come up with that idea in your brain. But for your dad to reach over and say, "Hey son, I think it'd be a good idea if you helped out Linda." That's not fair.

That's neither fair nor right in any way, shape, or form.

>> And um since my mom was helping her out, my wife and I are actually actually we settled her debt that she has. She has no debt anymore. >> Oh my god. >> Your sister has no debt anymore, >> correct? We she had like $24,000 of credit card debt. I managed to contact her creditors and uh settle it for 16,000. >> Wow. So, where is she at now?

uh she works at a retail job, but now she's on the level she can't get a credit card anymore. They won't nobody will give her credit anymore. Uh so now she can save, you know, I'm hoping I told

her that I want her to invest all of this money that she gets. And so I was going to send her information from investor pros and stuff in her area.

>> How old is she? >> Try to hook her up at every dollar, too. >> How old is she? >> She is, let's see, I'm 51. So, she's

turning 40 this year. >> Is there anything and and I'm asking this in the most delicate way that I can at this point. I'm not going to lie, I'm very irritated. Is there anything that precludes her from going out in the world and and basically doing what what

other adults do? Or is there is there a mental problem? Is there anything that's precluding her? Or is she just not >> like it sounds like her her growth is sort of stunted in a way, >> right? We want to know, is there truly anything there that we need to be considering, or is this just a a person who's just deciding, I don't need to do all the things that the other adults need to do? >> No, no, no.

She she wants to find a new job. She's actually going to get married later this year. Um, and her her her fiance is a

very level-headed guy. I like him a lot.

They work in like the same area, so they work close together. >> So then why is it up to you guys to step in and save her is my question.

She seems fine. It seems like she's fine. She's in a relationship. She's got a job. She's got a future h spouse on

the way. >> She's got a hundred grand coming to her.

>> Yes. She's >> She doesn't need your help at this point.

>> I mean, >> I would love You want to know what I'd love to do, Jason? I'd love to shift the conversation to So, what are you going to do with this $100,000 of inheritance you're about to receive? >> What are your goals, Jason? >> Yes. I want to shift it.

So, we're we're pretty well off. I'm I'm

planning on putting it in an index fund in case my dad needs assistance later when he gets older. And he's already 71.

So, I mean, >> what a guy. >> You're already thinking about other people as you build wealth.

>> I would go read the parable of the talents in the Bible. It's it's a great parable that explains uh how you can squander wealth or how you can grow it.

And there's a lot of scenarios and some people cannot be trusted with money

because they will not handle it well.

And your job is to be a steward of any money that comes your way. That's my viewpoint at least. >> And so if you are the steward of this money, what is the best use of this money? Is it to give it to someone who you know will not multiply it, but instead likely squander it?

>> I don't think that's wisdom.

>> Yeah. I mean, and another concern of mine is I have a special needs son who's going to be needing care the rest of his life, and we need to have a pretty big message. special needs trust and fund it. That's what I would be doing with this money. You got your own life and she has her own life. You've already done enough for her settling her debts.

I would step out and let her spread her wings. >> Y

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can." It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We are now joined by a wonderful couple on the debtfree stage. It is Andrew and Megan.

Welcome guys. >> Welcome. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. >> Thanks for coming all this way to celebrate with us. Where are you guys from? >> Chicago. >> Chicago. >> Awesome. How much debt did you pay off?

>> Uh I got it written down.

>> $165,293.

>> Love that. >> Fantastic. And how long did it take to pay that off? >> 22 months. >> Okay. There's a story here.

>> Something happened. >> There was some hustle going on. And what was the range of income during that time? >> Uh about 200 to about 230 depending on overtime and side hustling. Wow.

>> Fantastic. What kind of debt was the 165? >> We had a car in there.

>> Car. >> A swimming pool. >> Wa. >> And then our mortgage. >> Wa. >> Just throw that in there for fun. >> Just a little bit. Yeah, >> that is incredible. I got to say, I just saw the photo of Was this like a backyard renovation situation?

>> No. So, we just we the kids love being in the backyard. We got the pool, so we just some lights and a little movie screen back there for summertime and living the life. >> Look at that. >> That is awesome. And now it's actually yours. >> All ours. >> They can't repo the pool now. >> Nope. Absolutely. >> I love that. I'd love to see them try.

>> Yeah. >> Awesome. >> We'd be in a lot of trouble with the kids. >> Yeah. Now they're like, "We need this pool now." Okay. So, 22 months ago, you

were sitting here with the mortgage, the pool, the car loan. What happened that made you guys go >> gazelle intense? >> It I hate saying it, but it was he started it. He was a Ramsay fan before I knew what Ramsay was.

and I said, "Oh, that that's great. Good. Do your thing and and I'll do mine." And um we just sat down in it was January of that year and we were talking about kind of what our goals were and long-term goals, what we want to do, what we want to do for the kids and college and all of that stuff. And uh he mentioned Ramsay again and so I finally we had the book on the shelf the whole time since before we met.

the nerd and once I read it I was like let's go. Like spreadsheet open. We've got this. We're doing it. And so just kind of dove in head first.

>> So you're telling me that what really changed it was number one, you guys sat down and actually had some vision for your future. >> Absolutely. >> And then it was, okay, we got to reverse engineer it. How are we going to do it?

Well, here's a plan over here. And you dusted off total money makeover and said, let me just read it. All right.

>> Yeah. >> And that sold you. >> Absolutely. Yeah. It It's so simple that

it's like, why weren't we doing this before? >> And and you guys floored it all the way through. It's like baby step two. you said, "Okay, we'll do this car and this pool deal, but that's not good enough for us.

We're going to tack the mortgage on to it as well." Yeah. We um we realized that kind of with where we're at in our life and the age of the kids and you know, I know sometimes people say, "I just I I want to be there for my kids and I don't want to miss things and I didn't want to miss it, but more importantly, I didn't want to miss the future. I didn't want to see them going into debt for college or doing things like that." And so, we decided to just really floor it and live on beans and rice and do do the thing.

has always been, "Oh, I'm going to throw a little extra on the mortgage." A little extra on the mortgage, which >> made a difference, but it didn't when we were financing cars and pools. So, >> how much of it was the mortgage that was left? >> Um, about >> probably >> 120 or so.

I totally get it. When you're that close, you're like, I'm just going for it. >> And we kept seeing it go down, you know, month after month. And so, we did the pool first.

We actually we got our tax refund uh and paid the pool off right away. So, that was a nice jump start. we had some in savings. Um the car I think we paid off almost a year before my initial projection was because we just started what don't we need and cutting the budget down.

And so then by then we were getting close to the house was inching closer and closer to 100 and we were like well I mean what if we just kept this up and so we did and you know any overtime that he could get from work and then um my side job I just picked up as much as I could there too and we just threw it all there. >> Wow. What was the side job? Uh I'm a nurse practitioner and so I do uh home health visits.

I love that. >> That's fantastic.

>> It's a It's probably one of the better ones. >> I bet. Yeah, cuz everybody I mean listen, if you can get it in your home, that's wonderful. So good.

>> And how about you, Andrew? What do you do for work? >> I'm a fireman. >> Oh, fantastic. >> Yep. >> Look at this. We got a nurse practitioner, a fireman.

>> So, what kids say about this? I mean, obviously they're going to they're noticing life around here has changed.

Mom and dad, like, tell us more. There there were definitely times where they were like, "Mom, dad, why can't we we go on vacation? Are people down the street are uh they're getting the newer toys.

They're getting We said, "No, we're going to we're going to hold off on that. You're going to get it later on." >> Yeah. And they I listen to the show all the time and the kids are they know the phone number. And they're like, "Oh, you're listening to Dave Ramsey." Like they they know all about it now.

And they they they laugh when they hear the commercials and it's like, "What's in your wallet?" They're like, "Not a credit card. It's a debit card." They're on board. They're drinking the Kool-Aid, too. >> That may have been the best part of this whole journey is that, you know, we say more is caught than taught and you guys have set a precedent to now they're not going to turn 18 and go, "Well, mom, I think I really need to build my credit and get a credit card.

What do you They know better now." >> Absolutely. >> Such a young age, you don't even need to talk about it. You've lived it. >> Yeah.

And I think that's a big thing. The more than caught more caught than taught, um we were wondering how we bring it in and how we teach them. And we realized that just doing what we were doing and telling them like, "No, we're putting some into savings and you know, this is what we're doing and why we're doing it." And they for for their ages, I think, understand pretty well. So, >> yeah.

>> Um, anywhere between 400 and 450.

>> Let's go. >> What do you guys have across your retirement accounts in nest egg?

>> I think we're probably we're probably right at or maybe over the threshold there for for Baby Step Millionaire.

Depend depends on how the market's doing here. So why we're very close if we're not there. >> Way to go. >> Exciting. So how's it feel? I mean, you don't have a payment in the world. You owe nobody nothing.

>> It I feel like sometimes it still hasn't hit me. >> No, it hasn't.

>> We we have the proof. Yeah. >> But I'm still I see everyone else >> hear everyone else telling about talking about what they're paying off and what they still have to they still owe on their homes. And I'm like, "Oh, I don't know anything." >> Do you know the exact amount you guys have freed up in payments from the car loan, the pool payment, the mortgage payment? um probably

close to if not at about 3,000 a month.

>> Wow. I I would say closer 3500 what we

were. >> So we're talking like a $40,000 raise in takehome pay. >> And it's he last month worked um some overtime and we didn't realize how much it was until the check came in. And so instead of figuring out what goes where, we're like what are what are we going to do with this money?

Like it's a great it's a great problem to have and um fun to you know kind of plan what we'll be able to do with that for the future. What are you gonna do?

>> Yeah. So, we are Well, we came here obviously. That's that's the first part.

What else? What else? Um, we are going to take a trip this summer. We're going to just drive out west with the boys and kind of see as many of the sites as we can for a couple of weeks and then ultimately we would love to be able to live on a lake and so we're we're putting money away um to hopefully one day be able to do that too someday.

>> I love that. >> That's so cool, man. >> Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. Absolutely. >> So, what do you tell people the key to becoming debtree is

>> uh >> I think it's what everyone says all the time, right? >> Um yeah, >> being partnership and having those conversations together. Um I think we when we first got married did not have joint finances. I was paying off student loans and I said, "Let me just keep it coming out of my account." And then we didn't know where the money was, what was coming, what was going, who was spending what.

And so finally when we sat down and did this and got everything on the same page, it just makes so much more sense. And now there's no question about what's going on. So that the communication and getting on a good budget. Every Dollar is my favorite thing.

I'm on it all the time because we know exactly what's going on then. Both of us can see it, too. >> I love to hear it.

You can keep those to renew yours and keep keep the fire going for your new savings goals. You can give them to someone else who you want to encourage to get on the same journey. That's our our little parting gift to you. Uh can we get the kids on the stage? Yeah.

>> All right. What's their names and ages?

>> So Gavin is nine and Leo is seven.

Seven. >> Love it. And they've been practicing. If they know the phone number, they for sure have been practicing the debtree scream. >> Yeah, we're very good screamers in general. So we're hoping that the debtree part will work. >> Hey, blow the audience away, guys. Okay, we've got Andrew and Megan and Gavin and Leo. Chicago area. $165,000

paid off. That's the car loan. the pool and yes, even the mortgage. They did it in 22 months, making 200 to 230 with the

side hustles. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Ready, guys? >> 3 2 1

>> Man, that's pretty wild. >> That's what I'm talking about. Listen, you know what? We teach on here all the time. You know, you can be intentional.

You don't have to be intense about paying off the mortgage, but man, every once in a while folks like Megan and Andrew come along and they just slam on the pedal. And I'm not mad at them for doing it. >> No. And what's crazy is, yeah, they're making 200 grand, but the stats show people making six figures, half of them are paycheck to paycheck. >> So don't tell me, well, if I made that much. No. Use your income, and as you make more, keep throwing at the debt.

Keep working the plan, and eventually you'll become baby step millionaires at a young age with a whole lot of life on the other side. So proud of you guys.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseyolutions.com/

scripture of the day, Matthew 6:34. Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Mark Twain

said, "The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why." >> That's good. >> You going to learn today.

>> All right. John is in New York City.

John, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, to give some context, my mother-in-law, I love her to death. I love her daughter so much. Um, she has a great income, you know, no debt except

for her car. Um, you know, the house is paid off. Uh, but I can't get her to buy in um on retirement or saving. Um,

actually I can get her to buy in for a little bit, but then it just goes completely out of the window for, you know, this reason or that reason. Um, and admittedly, I am worried that in 20

years she will be totally uh that we

will be responsible for her um financially. Um, and that concerns me of

course. So, I don't really know how to get her to a place to like fully buy in because she's in a rare and unique circumstance where she has the ability to save for retirement over the next 10 years and have a good retirement. Um,

but she just won't for, you know, a multitude of reasons.

>> Sounds like something spooked her or scared her or she grew up hearing something, right? There's something that's living in her psyche that is informing her. Uh, and it's clearly not the facts. Um, >> I think that's right.

Yeah, she grew up pretty poor and so, um, I think it's one of the mentalities of what if I die tomorrow? Um, and so she'll save, you know, we did get a Roth IRA going. You know, that's great. Um, but, you know, that's pretty much all she has saved for retirement.

>> Oh, she it has about 25,000 in it. And so, that's the only thing that we've been able to stick to, mostly because I think it's automated. Um but >> so she's maxing it out every year.

>> Yes. But it only started three years ago. So um you know, quick napkin math

in 10 years. I mean, and the way that and frankly um you know, the way that she spend uh you know, I mean that that will go in three months probably.

>> Does she have access to a 401k through her work?

>> Yeah. Yeah, she has access to it. Um, but it it and we've sat down and, you

know, did every single scent where it goes. And I mean, she has like $5,000 a

month. >> In her mind, what's the difference between uh her doing the Roth IRA and letting that be, you know, automated versus also setting the 401k and obviously that being automated in her mind, what has she said the difference is? Is it just the amount of money or

>> Yeah. Yeah, it's essentially the amount of money, but she she she recognizes that she makes a good amount of money, but she believes that life just continues to get in the way. Um, you know, but then it's like I walk into Easter and, you know, I got a basket.

>> Oh, so it's not it's not the investing.

It's her parting with that being that money being part of her day-to-day spending budget.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's probably $200 a day. Um, and I just don't know where it goes. Um, like like frankly, I don't know where it goes. and and and I think that I will grow resentment if she has no money in 10 years and I've just been watching this for, you know, two decades. Um, >> where's your wife? Where's your wife?

Where's your wife in all of this? Because >> if you you're a good son-in-law, you're you're talking with her. It feels like this is something that maybe your wife should be taking the lead on. And and

there's part of this where you both are going to have to relinquish the idea that you you can't make her do anything like she's a grown woman. She can make her choices and >> because of that you can also control what you're going to do which is if you and your wife have sat down and said we don't believe that it's our job to fund her retirement. Let's just we agree on

that. Fine. But maybe it's our due diligence to let her know that as well so that she can factor that into whatever plan that she has. And then from there on, you can kind of just go on about your business and say, "I set the expectation and I'm aligned with my spouse.

It's all good in the hood. Move on. What's wrong with that?" >> No. And you know what?

That that that is definitely a conversation where neither of us want to have it. And I think that uh if push comes to shove, we're both like on the fence of like, of course, we'll take her in. Um, but that budget will look totally different than what she wants it to look like. But I think that setting the expectation is is probably what needs to happen.

Like personally, if it were my mom, like I'd probably like lock her in the closet, you know, six days a week because I'd be like, "What are what are we doing?" Like this is ridiculous.

her take-home is is nearly $150,000. I

mean, it's >> it's just disappearing into random spending. >> Exactly. Like I said, it's probably $200 a month. I think I think you're burning too I think you're burning too much energy on >> Yeah. >> just continually circling what she's not doing. I can't believe she's doing this. She's got this. Why wouldn't she do? That's a lot of energy you're burning.

Uh John. And so I think you need to burn more energy on here's what I'm going to do >> and here's what that's going to look like. Here's what what my wife and I are going to say. Here's what we're going to do. This is what it's going to look like. This is what it's going to sound like. And and if it makes you feel better because please hear me. I get it.

There is just when you come from someone, you know, you've got parents, you care about them. And even though it's very easy for myself or George to say it's not your responsibility because this is your family, you do feel it. So, I want to acknowledge that you do wish that you could meddle in it and go in and change it, but you can't. So, if it makes you feel better, >> what you could do is say, uh, I just want to make sure she knows.

I'm just going to set a regular rhythm of, you know, maybe it's once a year. We kind of have a state of the union and we say, "Hey, we just want to I we don't know if you're interested in the investing thing yet. We're still here if you want help because remember, we're not funding this and and as long as you're it's almost like the college discussion that you have with children. You set the expectations and you set it early and often.

Same thing with this." Yeah.

mother-in-law so that this conversation goes better cuz it's going to take a little bit of a persuasive argument if you can even get her to invest. But the good news is, as you found out, if you can get her to automate it and just live on what's left, then you're golden. And so if your wife can sit with her, log into the 401k, ratchet it up, and all of a sudden she has less coming in each month. Well, now she has less that will, you know, flitter away into money leaks.

>> And also the good news, I think I heard you say her home is paid off. She's not taking on any new debt. Correct.

>> She just has the car loan. >> Yeah. Yeah. She just a very nice car. Um

and that's it. >> What's left on the car loan? Do you even know? >> Oh my gosh. Um 34 probably. 34. M

>> does she have any plans to pay that off or is she just doing the minimum payment? >> Oh, minimum. Yeah, the 600 a month or whatever it is. Um, >> does she have savings? >> Bleeding? >> No. And that's the thing is that we would get we would get to like 15 20,000 again pretty easily, pretty quickly and then it's like uh you know all of a sudden you like the like one of them has access to the account and it'll be like $400 in there. I'm like what is this?

Um, and it's nothing like on the surface of like, you know, a $12,000 handbag or whatever. I think it's just like literally $200 a day of just

>> that'll do choices. That's $6,000 a month if you're doing the math at home. So, it doesn't take much to just have all these money leaks eat away at even when you make great money. And the more you make, the more you go, sweet, more I can blow without feeling it.

So, this is going to be >> we've doubled our salary. Like, we like we've done really good work and I'm and you're right, I'm so emotionally attached. Like I I just I think about it as much as I think about my own financial. >> You got to chill out with that.

>> That's the scary part. This is consuming you. So I mean it's like you can't want it more than she does. And at some point she might need to feel the pain, but again that's too late for you where you're going, well I don't want to >> need to fund her retirement.

So that's going to be up to your wife to go, "Mom, we love you. We are not your retirement plan. And I don't know what your plans are, but it doesn't seem like you have one. And I love you too much to watch you retire broke and for you to become a burden.

I want your retirement to be filled with dignity, filled with options and flexibility and not you needing to live with us cuz you have no other option. >> Yeah. Oh boy. And for anybody listening, man, if you're listening this and you're in, you know, late 40s going into your 50s, 60s, please, please, please take it upon yourself to do the right thing.

It is your duty to set yourself up for life. It it should not be your when you bring children into the world, it's your responsibility to take care of them. You brought them here, you take care of them. >> And there's no quid proquo of, "Well, they now are my retirement plan cuz I raised them." No, that's selfish.

That's what it is. And we're we're seeing a generation that is the sandwich generation. They are trying to raise their kids. They're trying to set their own financial goals and they got to take care of mom and dad who did not prepare for retirement.

>> They got their own kids to take care of.

Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in

the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Thrilled to have you

with us. 88 825-55225

alongside the refreshed new father. Got

a good night's sleep last night. So that means he's going to be extra good at helping you folks today on the money issues. George Camel, my dear friend.

And then I'm Ken Coleman. If you're new to the show, welcome, welcome, welcome. I'll help you make more money. George is going to help you keep more money. That's the combo. And uh so we're gonna get right to it. Kate's joining us in California. Kate, how can we help today?

>> Hello. Well, uh, thank you so much for taking my call. Uh, my husband and I have been married for almost two years now. And when we came into a marriage together, we both owned a house. And, um, the house that he has, we live in right now, and it's paid off. The house that I have is in a different city. It's where I was living before. And I still have a mortgage on it. Um, it's worth about 500 and my mortgage has 325 left.

We pay every month, but then we have renters and it covers most of it, but we're losing about $200 per month um with the property management fees and

we're trying to decide. We chip away at it every we do every dollar and we're on baby step six. We're doing great, but we chip away at the mortgage every month.

Whatever we have left over, we spend towards the mortgage and we're trying to chip away at it, but we're trying to decide if we should keep doing that or if it's and it's worth the keeping the house um or if it's just going to be too much. And >> let me ask you a question. >> Let it go and sell. >> Let me ask you a question. I want you to speak on behalf of your husband. I think you're qualified. >> Uh >> do you do you enjoy uh losing a couple

hundred bucks a month on that house?

>> I It's weird. Like we we we both see the

pros and cons. >> No, no, no. You're sounding like a politician. That's a yes or no answer.

Do you enjoy losing a couple hundred bucks? >> Do you enjoy I'm okay with it cuz I really love this house and I like I don't want to give it up. And we go we go to the city that it's in a lot and visit and so like eventually one day I would love to have it paid off and then have it be like ours and we go and we can stay there. >> I'm not sure why you called us. I'm not sure why you called us now.

>> Well, cuz we're we're really torn and there is some like >> who's wait

torn. I'm holding George off because I know what George is gonna say. So, I'm trying to This is actually fun that we got behind what's really going on. We are torn. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's over 100 people in the lobby.

Uh show of hands if you think she's torn.

>> Oh, all right. About half. About half. I don't think you're actually torn. I think you want to keep it and your husband wants to get rid of it. Is that true or false?

>> It's partially true. I just I feel like

the the issue is I want I want to do upkeep on it, but it's a lot of money and it's like is it worth it? And the other thing is like the house we're in right now is great and we're thankful but it's not our forever home. And so it's like we don't want to get another home. >> Okay. Your forever home is with Jesus Christ. There is no forever home.

>> Oh, you're not 90. You're going to move seven times before you pass from this earth. >> So here here's what I'm hearing. >> George from the top ropes of the church just off the balcony. >> I like a Jesus joke. >> You came in with a robe on and off the top of the balcony there. >> It's just fun. Here's here's what I'm getting at, K. I think this is a sentimental house for you. This was your first house that you had on your own.

>> Yes. >> So there there's a real emotion tied to this and there's a sunk cost fallacy and it feels like letting go of this house is letting go of something you worked really hard for. And so I think what you need to do as best you can is to untie your emotion and instead tie onto some logic which is what your husband's probably using. He's just doing math and going this doesn't make any fiscal sense.

We're losing money. And then the other part of this is where is the house located? You're in California.

>> So we're down south and the and my house

is up north. >> How far away?

>> Uh about 5 hours. >> Oh, this is insane. So would you now today go, hey, let's buy this house 5 hours from us to rent out and lose money on. Would you make that decision today?

>> No. >> So that the key here is you may you became a landlord by default. And even if it was working out, I'd probably tell you to sell it cuz it's still long distance. It's still a nuisance. It's still a headache. >> I got a theory, George. Uh, and I don't mind being wrong, Kate. I think, uh, George may be right on the emotion piece, but you didn't react. I Here's what I hear. I think that you think this

is such a smart investment if you can just somehow figure out a way to not lose money on it or somehow just keep this. I think you feel like it would be financially irresponsible to let go of this house. Is that true or false?

>> Well, I grew up with parents that were all about good credit scores and all this stuff. So, like they they pushed me and encouraged me to get this house when I was single. And >> um and they're all about like, "Oh, you got to keep it now. It's it's getting higher in value each year. This is amazing. Keep it." So, I have

>> True. True or false? Did I I'm just saying. I'm I'm helping you. It's not about me being right. I want you to get I'm trying to identify for you what's really going on here.

>> I think you think it's irresponsible to let now let down mom and dad. That's an

added layer. >> Is that what's going on? Yes or no?

>> And I don't know. I'm just I I feel like it's worth it in my opinion. It's worth it keeping it. It's investment. We could use it in the future. But so we >> But don't say it's worth it out of fin You're saying it's worth it emotionally.

It's not worth it financially.

>> No. How much money are you losing a year on this house? Be honest.

>> Um, I'm That's a good question. We're It's about 200 a month that we're losing. So, >> okay. Well, that's easy math. 2,400 bucks, but it's more than that because now you got to fix it up and do other things, right? >> You got to fix it. Yeah. >> It's not worth it on paper. It's not worth it. >> You could if you sold it, you'd walk away with about 150 grand.

>> That's worth it.

Now, what would you do if you had 150 grand in your pocket today? Great question.

>> Uh, well, like I said, we the house that

we're in, we just had a baby and there's stairs and we just we want to get a one-story house and so like we're that would probably you probably put it towards a new house and like the house that we're in is also very valuable. So, we would be able to >> Oh, you want to play this game again?

Okay. You didn't learn the lesson the first time. >> No, I feel it's crazy. I feel like you're talking in circles. You should run for office. I really think >> maybe have trouble with stairs right now. Is that the issue?

>> I was just worried about it. Yeah.

>> Okay. I'll tell you what I did cuz I have Many people have stairs. It's very common in houses to have stairs. >> What' you do with your stairs? >> You put a gate. I got a baby gate installed. >> Problem solved. And I carry the baby.

>> Right. Well, that's smart. I uh >> It's where these arms came from. >> You know, I'm getting to the age now if you put a gate on my stairs, I probably wouldn't go up.

>> No. Ken's going to have a little motorized. >> I don't want to pull a hamstring goes up the stairs. >> I'd have to stretch.

>> I play a lot of pickle ball. I got to stretch. I got to stretch before getting over that gate. Um, you know, we're having fun with you, Kate, but the the Here's You won't even answer the question, but I think George's an George's question is your homework assignment.

George and I have spoken. It makes no sense. We're going to say this until the cows come home. To be a longdistance landlord. We've said that a million times. We're going to say it a million more times. George and I have told you why. Um I think we've identified the emotion around this, which was our goal to help you see how your emotion is outweighing your logic. And then now

it's like, hey, you got to start thinking about what would we do with the 150 plus this the equity on the current

house that you don't like. That's the move. Am I right? >> How old are you, Kate? How old are you guys?

>> Uh 30. >> 30. Okay. You let this thing ride till 62. If you just invest 150 grand, you'll have 3.6 million. Oh boy.

>> So, I'm not buying the fact that this house is the greatest investment. You could make truly passive income just investing it into an index fund. And so, this is really about emotion than it is about logic. I would sit down, engrave this house, and then put it on the market, take some cute pics, say goodbye. I wouldn't grieve it. I'd celebrate it. Money, money, money, money.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Anna is up in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Anna, how can we help today?

>> Hey, uh, such a treat to talk to you all. Um, I'll make my question brief.

And, um, essentially, I just learned that I'm expecting my first baby.

>> Hey, watch out. That's exciting.

Congrats. >> Super super excited. And I'm as nervous

as I am excited. Um, but my question is

is um I have a um a piece of fine jewelry that was gifted to me from a family member and the appraisal value of

several years ago was $11,000

although I think it may be worth a little bit more. But my question is is two parts. One, um what can I expect to

like the appraisal value versus sell value? I just don't know what to kind of expect um for that. And then my second question is, how do I go about finding a buyer for fine jewelry? I I hear about like finding a, you know, a private seller for like a vehicle, but I've listened to the show for a while and I've never heard about somebody trying to sell jewelry.

So, I would love any uh any help. >> Great question. Uh uh George is doing a little research. Quick question.

Um why are we selling it?

So, one, I am a simple person. I am not

a jewelry fan whatsoever. So, I have no

attachment to it. And um my husband like picked up an extra bus route and I am trying to get my side business started just to pile up cash. And so, really, I

just I would really want like I feel like this is just a quick way to get kind of a nest egg. >> Okay. And so, we're trying to build up are we have any debt?

>> Yes, we do. >> Okay. So, we it's not about the nest egg, it's about the dad. I'll let George walk you through that. And who's the family member that gave you this?

>> Sure. It It's my mother.

>> And mom's not going to be And again, I'm not in any way. I'm just curious. I'm getting all the facts here. Would mom be upset to find out that you sold this?

>> Uh, no. It was originally given to me to sell for to like help pay for my wedding. >> Oh, great. We ended up then. Absolutely.

Okay. That's all I needed to know. >> No sentiment, no relationship destroyed.

I would sell it. And there is there's a spectrum depending on how fast you want this cash and need the cash. You could get it fast at a pawn shop. You could go to a local jeweler.

From my research, you're probably looking at 30 to 60% of appraisal value. >> So top end, you might be looking at, you know, five a little over five grand. On the lower end, maybe three or four grand. >> Okay.

>> And so I would at least try your local a local jeweler to see what they think, what they would >> What about George?

Can you sell it? and she go online.

>> There's auction houses. Now, the thing is, you're going to take more time to find a private buyer. An auction house will cost you a little bit and it might take a little while to sell if it's a unique high-end piece. And there's online marketplaces as well. So, it just depends. If you're in no rush to sell this, you just want to get top dollar, I would go that route >> if you guys aren't desperate. >> Have you done some research on your own as to pieces like this?

So the I went to the retailer that it came from and so and like I said it was it was valued at 11,000 at the time and they offered me $900.

>> Okay. I'm talking about online. I'm talking like for people that cuz you go retail, you're going to get whole you're not going to get the the pricing that you want. >> You have the appraisal so you have a lot of info about this piece of jewelry.

Correct. Okay. Good. I'm saying, are there people that are selling these things online >> that you can check this? Like, go to eBay and find that item and then go to completed and sold in the filters.

That'll show you what it's actually selling for. >> Awesome. >> So, that's one. >> Thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Start doing your research. >> Appreciate the call.

Wow. >> But yeah, I mean, that's that's very rare that you have a piece of jewelry that nice that isn't sentimental and won't destroy a relationship from the person who gave it to you. >> Yeah. Speaking of which, you got a nice piece on your wrist right there.

my uh my wife's grandfather passed and grandmother said, "Hey, if you'll take this and you want to fix it up, keep it, but just don't sell it." So, I am under strict conditions to not sell it. And I don't think I ever will. I'd love to pass it down to, you know, my >> By the way, I remember when you first showed it to me. Uh, it looks good on you.

>> Thank you. Yeah. >> I'm usually an Apple Watch guy and so this is a big change. >> No, I think this makes you look like an adult.

>> Well, I'm I'm a dad now.

>> You're a dad. You got a beard. It's time to wear a real man. >> I don't need to get texts on my wrist.

By the way, because it's an older uh Rolex, can I say that? Yeah, I just said it. >> So, it occurs to me. I didn't didn't really filter that very well.

>> No, it's totally fine. >> But the size of that matches your wrist size. >> I have You're saying I have a dainty wrist. I understood.

>> You're a small guy. Small wrist, small watch. I think it works is all I'm saying. Tammy's up in New York.

>> Hi, Ken and George. I love you guys so

much. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Thank you. We love you, too.

>> Thank you. So, uh, just to get to it

really quickly, I have in baby step two,

I just finished paying off about $30,000

in credit card debt. >> Nice. >> And I have basically two more uh with

the exception of my mortgage. Um, two more is my pension loan and my car. Now, my car is a lease that's up in September of next year, which they say will be valued at 20,000 by that time. um just

got like a payoff uh estimate last month. Right now it's about at 28,000 and my pension loan um that I just took out for a kitchen renovation is about 36,000 left on it. So I'm wondering if I

should pay and that's at 5%. I'm wondering if I should pay I guess work on paying the car off before my lease ends, pay extra payments toward it, or should I attack the pension loan? M.

Well, if you're just going to put this in the dead snowball, you would just do the smallest balance first, which would put the car there if that's your goal.

You want to keep the car?

>> I do. Yes. >> Okay. And what's your income?

>> Um, I'm at about 208.

>> Fantastic. >> Yeah. >> So, you're going to be able to knock this out pretty quick.

>> Yeah. Once I once I started this, because I've been Dave Ramseyish and I I'm getting serious now. I basically kind of stopped my retirement. I was had my money all over the place, disorganized, um saving in so many different pockets. So, I kind of organized that and realized I have so much more to put towards it. So, that's why I was able to kind of, you know, pay it down much more quickly. But, >> well, now you know you have the ability and discipline to save up for the next kitchen renovation.

>> Yes. >> So, are you done with debt completely?

You're you're never going to borrow a dime again. Are you at that place?

>> That's the plan. That is the plan. I'm I'm working very hard to not do it at all. Um, but I still have a mortgage and that's the bigger one. But yes, I I guess I'm just worried about the lease car if I should just allow it to just

>> I would work on getting that amount and just knock that thing out because you can throw payments at it, knock that 28k out in how many months, you think?

>> Um, so you think if I pay extra towards

the lease every month, it would pay it would it would I guess make it less old by the end of September? I would I would look at the agreement that you signed and talk to them and say, "Hey, look, I'm looking to buy this thing out. Here's the buy off amount. Can I make, you know, payments every month >> extra payment >> to work toward that?" And that way, you're not just sitting there sitting on a giant pile of savings.

>> Okay. Okay. So, that's what I will do.

Reach out to them, see if I can pay extra, >> and that will kind of lessen the amount >> um or get me to owning owing it owning it faster. >> Yeah. Either way, you're going to be okay. If you went and tacked this pension loan and knocked out 36K, you'd have the money by the time the lease is over to buy the car anyways,

>> right? >> Either way, you're prepaying the depreciation. >> It's still outstanding. I still I'm still working on the It was the credit cards that I paid off.

The pension loan and the car is still the outstanding one. >> Yeah. I'm just saying either way you hit it, you're going to have the money to have own this car outright by the time the lease is over. That's the important part.

You're not going to be in a lurch there. >> But I'm proud of you for making a big change. I mean, you've been turning to debt every which way, even making an amazing salary.

need to do I make 200 grand. What am I doing taking out loans?

>> Yeah. And I'm living paycheck to paycheck. And I'm just I'm not investing as much as I could. I've been investing, but not organized and diligently. But >> yeah, you could be doing way better for how hard you've been working.

>> I know. >> I'm proud of you. Hey, never too late to start. >> Yeah. Here's We want you to hear this, Tammy. like like just decide like you've already decided but decide every day uh

maybe take seven to 10 days and write something down every morning something that that is your words and but

something that's very declarative very simple I'm not going to

>> do debt ever again or I'm getting out of this and I'm never looking back something like that to change your mindset so that you begin to not see debt as an option ever again. It's like cutting something out of your appetite and then you lose the taste for it.

That's the challenge. This is a mental game and uh you can win it. You've already won so much. So, we're really excited for you. We're believing in you.

Thank you so much for the call. Good luck with that buyout. You're you're probably going to need to just do it as a lump sum. I don't know they'll allow extra payments. It might go toward the lease. So, again, look into that. But either way, just start stacking that cash and make those payments and get that thing owned fully.

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All right, heavy question, but we have to wrestle with it. If you die tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? Could they afford necessities, basic necessities like groceries? If anybody in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. So, if that's you

and you're going, "Okay, that's we need to do something here. How do I figure out all the options?" It's really simple. Life insurance up life insurance has one responsibility to replace your income if you die. And term life insurance is the only kind of insurance that does that.

Uh the others like whole or permanent life insurance try to add in investing and that's a really bad product that doesn't do what it's supposed to do. You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially. So if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years. And it should be a level policy, meaning the premium stays the same.

Go to ramseysolutions.com/termlifeguide.

That's ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide

or you can get the link in the description of the show notes if you're on YouTube or podcast. Lisa joins us now

in Ohio. Lisa, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, we recently sold our home after

experiencing some financial difficulties and medical setbacks. Um, and we're just

looking for the best way to kind of move forward. We have three teenagers.

They're very involved in extracurricular activities, types of medical issues. We just kind of want to move forward. We want them to have a normal childhood.

Um, so yeah, just just kind of looking for the best way for us to move forward.

>> Okay. So, we need to paint a clear picture for us here. Um >> so when when we're tackling debt uh we've got two things that we have to do just at the top right we have to decrease expenses wherever however and

then we also need to increase income.

>> Uh so give us a picture of the debt. Um

but before you do that give us a quick uh uh household income. What's what what is our what is our take-home pay?

>> We're about I would say about 11,000 a month. 11,000 a month. That's good income. Very good.

>> Uh and is this double income?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Double income. Okay. Now, walk walk us through the debt. Smallest to largest. >> Sure. So, um we're looking at about I

would say we have 60,000 in cars. We've

got three cars. My 17-year-old

um and then the two of us. So,

>> that's the total debt is just the cars.

>> No. No. >> Okay. So, I want you to walk me through I want you to walk me through smallest to largest because that's what we teach in the debt snowball is to attack the smallest debt. So, walk us through that.

>> Sure. So, um 20,000 in credit cards. Um

and then, you know, we have I would say our medical debt we're looking at I don't know uh about 9,000. Um and then

um we just keep having these medical costs pop up. Um, periodically we'll kind of be making some good headway and then like my son has an anaphylactic food allergy so he'll wind up in the hospital where I'll have like scans that are $500

out of pocket. >> Sure. Are you using the credit cards to help supplement the medical costs?

>> Well, so my kids were still in daycare

when I had cancer. Um, so we had I had

to keep them in daycare. I wasn't able to like care for them during the day.

So, a lot of that is still left over from >> And by and by the way, we're not judging you. We're just trying to figure out how we're Yeah. >> So, let's keep going through. Is 9,000 in medical debt. Is that Is that the smallest debt you have?

>> Um, yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's next?

>> Just us chipping away at um We have Oh,

sorry. We have 13,000 in uh student loans. >> 13K. So, 9K medical, 13K student loans,

20,000 in credit cards. That's multiple cards. >> Mhm. >> So, what's the smallest credit card amount? >> Um 500.

>> Okay. All right. You see where I'm trying to drive you to this? I'm going to get I'm going to get George here, but any other debt outside the the 60,000 in

cars? We had three cars. What are the cars? Give me the three car amounts.

>> Uh about 25 25 and 10.

>> Okay. Are you underwater in all three of these or any of these have any equity?

>> Just in just in the one. We're underwater. >> Which one? Uh mine >> 25 >> 20 one of the 25s. Yeah.

>> Okay. Any other debt?

>> Um no. I mean our kids are in um our

kids are in activities which those are costing about oh let's say 8,000 a year.

>> Okay. That's on the chopping block. >> Significant. >> All right. I'm bringing in Dr. Camel here. He's got his lab coat on, stethoscope. He's got his scalpel.

>> Mostly scalp. just mostly what we need here. >> His scalpel is ready to go. All right, George, walk her through this.

>> Well, now while the medical issues, that is something that is out of your control and I'm so sorry that I I hope you're doing better than you were. Are you currently in remission or what's the status of the cancer? >> I am. Yeah, it's just those darn scans we have to have.

>> Have you done the math? You know the ins and outs of your insurance cuz I would know that like the back of my hand.

>> How much am I going to pay? What's the deductible? What's the out- of- pocket max? >> They didn't cover my chemo, so that kind of kicked our butts, too.

>> Um, >> do you have a high deductible plan or is it >> We're about $900 um a month in insurance and then our out-of pocket max is 7,500 a year.

>> Okay. So, now we kind of know here's how much this is going to cost us out of pocket max. >> Mhm. >> And do you guys have nothing in savings right now? Um, so from the sale of our

house, we have 18,000 after. So, um, we

had to pay like we paid a chunk of that medical debt off.

>> What's the rest of the 18,000 doing right now? What's the goal with that? >> Um, I have it in a high yield savings account. I just fill we had like $50,000

equity in our house and so I I my goal I just wanted to like pay ourselves back for that and get back into a house eventually. But I just I don't Is that like the best thing to do? I don't know. We're paying $2,600 in rent. That feels like I'm just flushing it down the toilet. >> Well, what's being flushed down the toilet is $102,000 in consumer debt with

varying interest rates. That's what's crushing you, not rent. So, the other part of this is we've been living high in the hog, taking out car payments for every single car we want.

>> Um, and that's the part where I go, all right, these cars could be offloaded to clear over half the debt. >> Oh, yeah. Not to mention a massive race.

What? Just give us real quick, what do you think the car payments are for all three of those cars? Do you know off the top of your head? >> Um, I do know it would be I would say

it's probably about 1,200.

>> My heart said 1,200 there. Ding, ding, ding. >> Imagine a $1,200 a month raise.

>> Now you can make progress on that credit card debt and you can get ahead of the medical stuff. So that's my goal for you guys is >> you're bringing home 132K a year, which is awesome. Uh, my guess is your expenses are right up there, too, >> cuz whatever the kids want to do, I want to give them a great childhood. >> Yeah. What are the $8,000 in uh kids activities a year?

>> Yeah. So, um sports. I mean, my son's a

golfer. My other son plays football, baseball, basketball. My daughter is in dance and tumbling and cheer.

>> Okay. Are they going to do any of these professionally?

>> Uh my son is a senior this year. He's the golfer. >> Like, is he like scholarship level?

>> Um I I mean I I don't know. I don't know

that colleges. He's kind of thinking more about trades. >> Well, the answer is no. >> Perfect. So, if he was you would have already known. >> So, here would be my take. If they're are they 16, 17, 18, >> 17, 13, and 11.

>> Okay. I would have a 17-year-old um start working and they're going to start funding their own extracurriculars. Okay. Two jobs. Oh, great. But it's still costing you eight grand a year to cover some of his stuff.

>> Well, he has been up to this point, I would say about 2,000 of it with golf.

So, yeah. I mean, he's right on the tail end of us covering, you know, that he's >> Listen, part of this thing and and I you said something that was very interesting at this at the top of the call. You said, "We want our kids to live a normal life and I get it. I completely get it.

There's no judgment coming from me.

However, your daughter's in three major things and one's enough and there might

be a season where she can't do any of it, where she she learns this is why >> and it maybe keeps her from getting into debt." Like you guys are going to have to make some changes and you have to throw the kids activities on the block.

>> You have to. And then you're putting skin in the game, too. You're saying, "Hey, mommy's got to sell her car and you're we're going to have to cut you down to one activity cuz we need to clean up a mess that your dad and I made over the past several years and we we know that health issues are going to continue in our family. We need to get ahead of this." And that takes priority over these other activities.

So, you'll get back to it, but the next 2 to 3 years, you're going to be just chunking 30 plus grand a year at this debt to clean it up. That's what it's going to take. That's the math behind it. And I believe you can do it if you offload the cars, get the expenses down.

Now we can breathe. We've got that margin to attack it. And just me, I would never pay a nickel for tumbling.

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Hey, how you doing with staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and then get a re uh a personalized plan

just for you. Head to the show notes, James Child's favorite place, treasures trove of goodness over there. Click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the quiz?" Great way. Let me tell you something about winning. I don't care whether you're trying to lose weight, whether you're trying to accumulate wealth, whether you're trying to grow in a relationship, I don't care what it is.

Um, knowing where you stand and and having a constant reminder of where is my progress is the key to sustaining growth. Um, we humans need progress and

uh when we get stuck, if we don't realize where we are in that gap between where we are, where we want to be, it can really slow us down. So, that quiz um is is a fabulous little tool. Brett is up in Maine. Brett, how can we help today?

>> Yes, I'm a 100% disabled vet. I have

several benefits. The the housing market is crazy. I am trying to figure out

should should I stick to the 27% of my

income for the payment and uh zero down

on a 15-year or should I or can I move

to a 30-year since I have a fixed income?

>> Well, first we want to say thank you for your service. You're a great American. Yeah, that's a that's some serious sacrifice, man. How are you doing?

>> Getting better every day. Better grace God. >> Good. >> Good. Good. >> Well, because of your um disability rating, the funding fee on that VA loan would be uh waved, which is great news because VA loans can seem like a great deal, but then you realize they're also riddled with their own issues. And the property requirements are also strict.

Uh interest can be higher. And so, I would tread with caution. And the biggest thing I I would tr caution you against is going in with zero down. So that makes me ask another question.

Where what's the state of your financial world right now?

>> I am 3 to six months from completing step two. Um I have a fully funded well

I have the I have the step one completed and put away. >> Good. Um, I expect another one to two

months to fully fund a 3 to six month

um, emergency fund and then after that

go to 3B if I should still accumulate a 10 to 20% down payment.

>> Okay. So, you were speaking uh, out of order for the baby steps. You're you have six months to go to get out of consumer debt.

>> Correct. >> Then it's going to take you another 3 months or so to stack up six months of expenses.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Then that puts you at a year from now, we'll be in baby step 3b saving up for a down payment.

>> Correct? Okay. How much money once you're out of debt and you have the emergency fund, how much money could you save up in that, let's say in a year if you had no debt?

>> 2000* 12, that's uh 24 grand.

>> Okay. So, you could save up 24 grand.

And what kind of house would you be looking at? Have you started looking at the price range in your area?

>> 150 to 215,000.

>> Okay. So, what my goal for you is to be,

can we put down 10, 15, 20% on this

house? And if that VA loan is the best

choice financially based on the rates and the fees and all of that, I'm totally fine with you doing that because that funding fee is waved. But I still would stick with a 15-year and work to pay it off as aggressively as possible.

Because here's what we found. People who take out a 30-year loan tend to pay it closer to 30 years than they do 15 or closer to 10. People who take out 15-year loans tend to pay it off in 10 or if you're the average baby stepper, seven years. And so there's a forced uh savings plan you have there when you get that 15-year. And worst case, it's done in 15 years. How old are you?

>> I'm 27. >> Amazing. Young guy. lot of life ahead of you. And that means this house searching is on pause because we have a year till we're even saving up the down payment.

Another year, maybe year and a half of stacking up the down payment. Then we can begin the the hunt.

>> Okay? >> So, here's what that means. Before you're 30, you're going to have equity in that home and be in a place that it's really peaceful instead of going, "Hey, this is now way too much of my take-home pay is being eaten up by this mortgage." Um, and then you're gonna pay it off before you're probably 40. Now, that's a game plan for some wealth building right there.

>> Love that. Again, thanks for the call, Brett. And, uh, glad to see that you're you're on your way up and hang in there, cheering for you. Uh, hold the line.

Do exactly what George said. And this is going to turn out to be a great great situation for you. Annie is joining us now in Iowa.

>> Hi. So, I have kind of an an investing saving question. So, me and my husband are both investing 15% of our income.

We're set to pay off our house next year. And I'm wondering Yeah, very exciting. Um, I'm wondering with the excess, we're kind of wanting to start saving for a future house and upgrade and pay that one in cash.

>> Love it. We had a meeting with our financial advisor and he suggested putting it in a Roth IRA so that the we

get taxfree growth versus I had kind of

planned on putting that in a brokerage account. >> And I don't >> they're wanting you to to pull out the contributions taxree. Is that what they're saying with the Roth IRA?

>> Correct. go ahead and max out the Roth IRA and then five years down the road when we want to step up in house just

pull out the um contributions.

>> I would personally just use a a non-retirement account if you're going to use it for non-retirement purposes. I like to keep things real clean. So, a Roth IRA is my retirement account. A brokerage account is used for things before I retire.

>> And so, you will have capital gains on that. And depending on your income and how long you you hold those investments, uh it'll likely be 15% is what you'll pay only on the growth. So if you throw in 100,000, it grows to 150,000, you'll pay 15% of 50,000 in taxes.

And the other thing is how how long is this going to happen? Is this like a 5year goal to upgrade in house in cash or is it two years?

>> I would say it's five years. Yeah.

>> Okay. If it's five plus years out, investing that money is fine. And if it's anything less than that, I start to get a little cautious and go probably better to park it in a high yield savings account uh to keep things more liquid cuz you don't want to get there and go, "Oh, the market took a negative 24% dip this year. There goes our our house fund, >> right?

>> Yes. >> How many years are you thinking?

I would say five years at the soonest, maybe 10 years.

>> Love it. >> It just depends >> kind of on our situation in that time.

We're not in a rush to move out, but we want to know that we want to pay cash for our next house. >> I love that. How old are you?

>> 26. >> Oh my gosh. Any kids?

>> No, not yet. >> Oh, we'll have the house paid off in five and a half years. So, we beat the average a little bit. >> Annie, that is incredible. >> That's what I was wanting to know. Can I just say you are going to be in like a

rare error for a young couple. I love this story. They're already thinking, but she's being caused all of this cuz most people go, "Why would you pay down your house? You're 26. You should you got a low rate. Just ride it out. Invest the difference." >> Yeah. Where's this patience come from for this young couple? What's going on, Annie? >> I've been a big fan of the show. My parents obviously um have raised me on

Dave Ramsey, so that's been a big part of it. But >> what's your household income?

>> Um about 180.

>> Good heavenly days. You guys are going to be rich. >> What's your mortgage payment? The principal and interest portion.

>> Yeah, about 1300.

>> So you're going to free up that amount plus all the margin you have being debtree, >> which means you're going to stack >> have about >> Yeah. 4,000 extra a month that we'll start probably stacking up.

>> 50 grand a year saved up for five years invested. >> Yes. >> You're going to have a couple hundred, 300 grand, 400 grand. >> Nice house in Iowa. Huh.

>> Yep. >> On top of the equity you have in your current home, which once it's paid off will be how much?

>> About probably 220 depending in five years what the market is like. But yeah.

>> I mean, my goodness.

>> Estate agent, the the title company, they're all going to be like, "What? You're pink. You're Yeah, they're going to think you guys are punking them. >> 30 years old buying a house in cash.

>> Yeah, they're not prepared for it. So, so happy for you. Uh what what great piece you guys are setting yourself up for, Annie. We're just applauding you.

Thanks for sharing the details because I think you modeled the way for a lot of young people that are listening right now. So, fantastic job. Thank you so much. >> These are luxurious questions you can ask when you follow the Ramsay plan to a tea. >> I'm telling you, so proud of her.

>> Yeah, really good stuff. Folks,

this young generation, they're fine.

>> They're going to be okay. They're going to >> The good ones are going to be fine.

That's real.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us. David is up in Florida. David, how can we help?

Uh yes, I was calling to see um I lost my job about a month ago and we have a few months left to go until uh like money runs out and I'm just wondering when should I start considering selling my house. >> Now when you say the money runs out, runs out of where?

>> Well, we have a couple months of savings and um and also a severance package from my employer.

>> Are you u using the savings now or are

you able to live off the severance?

We're so far December.

>> How much do you have in savings?

>> Uh about 20,000.

>> Okay. Uh what were you making? What was your income, your take-home before uh being let go?

>> Uh base salary was 105 plus uh um

bonuses. >> Okay. Are you doing uh what kind of work were you in?

>> I was head of marketing for an e-commerce company. >> Okay. Um I'm assuming that you're aggressively you got recruiters helping you kind of that background what you've done seems like you're probably >> No, >> I haven't I haven't connected with any recruiters. I've been applying for jobs diligently.

Uh I think today I applied for about 20 and uh and also I've been reaching out to local businesses to see if they need any help with their marketing. >> Okay. >> Maybe maybe see if I can get freelancing or something. >> Great.

Um, because again, they don't win unless they get you something. So, I I would add that to the strategy here.

>> Um, okay. >> But the other thing that I would tell you, and again, I'm giving you advice on what I would do if I were in your shoes, and what I would do is while I'm, you know, prospecting and hustling and connecting, uh, I do not want to touch that emergency fund. Um, that's just me.

>> And so while I've got the uh severance

that's paying the bills and you may be doing this, are you working even just side jobs right now to bring in some money to supplement the severance so that we're stacking some cash?

>> I haven't like applied for any like entry level positions or anything yet.

>> I I'm just telling you >> I'm I'm open to to working. Yeah,

definitely. But I haven't applied to anything. >> Well, I would. And my point is is you know whether this is uh I'm working at a Walmart or I found a manufacturing job where it doesn't you know I >> Door Dashart >> I'm going where can I be a minimum of 20 to 25 bucks an hour because this is just

this is just a uh >> a bridge >> but um you want to slow down the burn rate that's the goal here while getting that job. Are you is this the only income in the family? Are you single, married? >> No, my wife she works as well. Okay.

What is she making?

>> She makes a little over 80 a year.

>> Okay. So, can you guys live off the 80 and not touch this?

>> Um, not not no not not really. No.

>> And what's that due to the Do you guys have a big mortgage?

>> Um, well, we got we do have quite a bit of of bills. Our bills Yeah, we our mortgage is about uh 2500.

Well, if you include like property taxes and insurance about 2500. Okay. And then do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage? >> Uh, our cars will be paid off like March of next year. >> Dude, I'm offloading these cars before I burn through my savings. What are the cars worth?

>> Um, they are worth roughly uh probably

about 15 a piece. 15 a piece.

>> What do you owe on them?

>> Uh, three and five.

>> What are the payments?

>> About 800 a month. >> Yeah. Why not take eight grand from your savings, pay off the cars? That frees up actual money in your budget every month.

>> Yes, >> I'd actually sell the car. >> Would I would I do Would I do that earlier or would I do Okay, sell versus >> I'd sell one at least, you know, instead turn around and go buy something is the issue. >> No, I know, but still, you know, instead of using that I I mean, yeah, I'm with you, George. >> You'll still have 12K in savings.

Um, you still have severance. You'll free up 800 bucks a month. My goal would be, have you guys ever made a budget together? Just sat down and said, "Hey, here's >> Okay.

>> which means no eating out whatsoever. We are only covering covering the four walls. Housing, utilities, insurance,

food, keeping food on the table. That's the major things. Outside of that, there's really nothing else you need right now. Correct.

Correct. >> Okay. And until you get a stable income, until you get back up to making, you know, 200 as a household, we got to live like we make 80 grand a year.

>> That's right. >> And and you can see we didn't immediately go to you selling the house. That's what you proposed. But but let's walk through the numbers. >> That is that's that's the scariest part to me because I don't I don't know where at what point do I decide and I know right now it's it's taking kind of taking time for people's house. >> Well, I mean, you guys bring home still four to five grand a month. What is she taking home?

Uh she brings about Say that again.

>> Is she bringing home four grand a month?

>> Uh about f about five to six. And then I also I bring in um I have a a retirement from the military.

>> And that's what I'm saying. You guys can't figure out how to live on seven grand a month right now. That's the scary part. We were we were living we were we were we had about 20,000 or more

that we didn't well actually there was more that we didn't need but we got budgeted in like Christmas and vacations and stuff so we can cut everything out.

We could probably cut back about 30,000.

>> That's what I'm saying. That's you don't need to sell the house. See the house stays there. Don't touch it. >> You don't want to mess with that. That that that can't be your fall back. And quite frankly I think what George has figured out is it doesn't need to be your fall back. This isn't we don't use the house and then throw the family into disarray uh unless it's the only option.

And I don't think this is I mean while you're finding something between your military let's run these numbers again for you just real quick. You're bringing in how much a month on the military benefit?

>> Uh 1,200 >> 1,200 and then your wife's bringing six.

>> Yes sir. >> So that's 7200. >> 7200. A mortgage is 2500 of that. So why do you need an extra $5,000 a month?

Where is this money going?

>> Well, there is we did set up like the envelope plan where a lot of money gets set aside for like birthdays and Christmas and stuff like that. So, there's all this money that that moved over for like saving for >> Okay, but I'm talking 60 grand a year that we need to account for here.

>> That's five grand a month. So, that's the part where I go I think we've been a little lacadasical. We've got a little comfortable and I need to I need need to feel some fire under your butt to go, dude. We need to do something now. We got this debt we need to clean up. I don't have a job right now. Our lifestyle just got cut over 60% because

of this income hit. So everything we were doing before is off the table right now. We'll get back to there once you're making 120 grand a year again. We can reinstate the syncing funds and the vacation funds and all that. But right now, we're not doing any investing.

We're not doing any spending. All we're doing is trying to keep food on the table, keep the mortgage paid, keep the lights on. >> And and George is right, by the way. Uh I I'm fully in board with George. I would I would pay off the two cars today like as soon as you hang up. And the reason is because you just gave yourself another 800 to the equation we just ran, which means we're now at 8,000 a month.

>> Okay. But just I pulled up my my budget.

My bills are about 6,000 a month, not not including food and and stuff like that. >> Why doesn't that include food?

>> Well, that Well, there's the way I've set the budget up is more of like uh these are non-negotiable kind of like bills that are the same every single month. I don't believe you have $3,500 of non-negotiable bills outside the mortgage. I would do an audit with your wife tonight and you both go, "Can we live without this for a season for three months? Can we live with can we scale down Christmas to a, you know, white

elephant secret Santa swap?" The answer is yes. >> This would be a very popular segment, I think, on your YouTube channel. I'm going to suggest it. >> Just slash no house call from Dr. Camel.

It's all Zoom though and you just sit there and you go through cuz I think you could literally stethoscope I'll give you one. All right. I'm in.

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All right, Noel is joining us in Oregon.

Noel, how can we help today?

>> Hi guys. Um, I'm such a huge fan of the show. Um, thank you. Basically,

>> yeah, of course. I've been watching you guys for years now. Um, so basically I'm

25 years old and I almost make $90,000 a year. >> Wow. >> I'm currently >> What do you do? >> Yeah, I'm doing uh digital marketing.

>> Good for you, Noel. Way to go.

>> Thank you so much. Um, and I'm currently working on my MBA program and um, I've been dating my boyfriend for almost two years now. And when we first met, he was making a similar salary to me. But um

since a couple of months ago, he was let go from his job and now he's been unemployed for going on 3 months now. Um

we currently live together and my concern is with all of our combined student loan debt, car debt, and consumer debt. Um I'm a little bit worried if he doesn't find a job, uh should we continue living together? Do we start splitting everything 50/50? Um,

do I dip into my savings to help sort of

like All right, hold on. Hold on. Okay.

Uh, I got to stop you here. Should we start splitting things 50/50? What does that mean? >> What have you been doing? >> That's what I want to know.

Um, so basically when we decided to start living together, he said that he will cover the rent, which is about like 1,300 a month, and I would pay for groceries and our utilities, and then everything else we pretty much take care of independently.

>> Okay. >> And now he can't afford it because, right, >> he's the broke roommate. And so you're going, I guess we need a split. Should I cover? Who's been Well, wait a second.

He's been out of work for three months.

Did he have a severance?

um he got his PTO pay, but um

>> who's been paying the rent? Who's been paying the rent for the last three months?

>> So, he paid the rent last month and then I paid the rent this month and um yeah.

>> All right. So, now here's what's interesting to me. So, you called us and we're so thrilled you did. I mean, couldn't be any happier. Um because this

is serious stuff, but the fact that you called us and the way you've set this question up, you're like, it leads me to believe that there's been some conversations maybe or he has made some

statements or there's a pattern of the way he's handling this that's got you going, uhoh, there are red flags swirling. So what what is it that makes you call and ask this question of should this mean that uh I put the brakes on

sharing you know all this kind of stuff and not think about this dude his marriage potential what's happened

>> um well I think what's happening right now is that he

has been interviewing for places but nobody seems to be hiring and >> right >> he doesn't really want to take a lower paying job or like two part-time jobs in the meantime. And I'm just concerned about how what jobs he's willing to take versus not and being potentially too picky in this environment where it also seems like nobody's hiring.

>> Well, that's true. So, uh just a quick for the rest of our audience and for you, the job market is very soft right now. Unemployment is ekking up. Um this

is this is a real thing. So, the job market's very very soft. So what that means is is that it does take longer to get hired because companies aren't hiring as as quickly because quite frankly the economic uncertainty with tariffs and everything else a lot of companies are holding and in a holding pattern. So that's real. But what is also real is is this young man for his own mental and emotional health needs to be doing something.

And uh I get the temptation to go I

don't want to go backwards.

Um, but yeah, this should concern you.

And yes, I would not be thinking about anything in this relationship. I I I'll just play your dad for a second because I'm probably old enough to be your dad.

Um, yeah, I would I would not be thinking about long-term with this young man until we see how he handles this storm. This is a real storm. Um, let me

say this on his behalf so I don't sound like the angry, you know, boomer dad.

Uh, I'm an exer, by the way. Um

there we know from research that losing a job has the same emotional impact as losing a loved one. So I do have a lot of empathy for him and I want you to have that empathy and understanding that he's three months into having his world rocked and and so I do have some

sympathy there as well as empathy. But

to your question uh and I want George to

jump in here. Uh I absolutely think today is the day we we should have been separate. I mean, I would have never told you to live with the guy. Um, uh,

but you are. No judgment. I'm just telling you I wouldn't have told you to do it. Um, but I would be separating

everything. What what is yours is is yours. What's his is his. And you guys split everything down the middle.

And unfortunately, you're romantic roommates. But that's where it ought to be, George. Yeah. I think this is not a a punishment to him of you.

I'm moving out because you don't have a job. I think you go, "Hey, this was a mistake." And it's just this is making it more and more clear.

I would have more onus if I needed to cover rent that month. I'm going to be doing Instacart that night.

But because he has you to float him, I think that's creating a sense of kind of comfort and complacency in >> and yes, it should scare you by the way as he's a future mate potentially. I'm going to tell you something right now and Stacy knows this.

>> If I lost my job, there is no sitting around for three months. Nothing. I'm

working. I'm busting it. Uh, and so

yeah, you ought to be concerned by that because here, while I acknowledge that it is an emotional blow, I'm also saying that life sucks sometimes.

It hurts and we don't just sit at home.

So imagine you with two littles and if this happens to this guy. So yeah, this ought to scare the crap out of you.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I feel like too, like when I talk to him about it, like my mindset is like, if I want a job by this date, I'm having it. I don't care what it is or how much it pays.

Like, I'm just going to go get it. >> Love it. >> And I just feel like he's waiting for like the perfect job. And I I I don't know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, hey, Noel, I'm not telling you what to do in this relationship, but I'm telling you to press pause on the relationship, meaning you're not thinking about what this looks like in the future until we see how this dude steps up. And by the way, George, do you have any problem with her telling him that?

>> Well, I can tell she's very professional with her language and her words, and so this is it's it's going to feel like an awkward conversation cuz it is. It's going to be uncomfortable. And how he reacts is not up to you. So that's the

tough part. And it sounds like he's going to be probably deflecting, making excuses, probably going to get upset and defensive. And again, that's very telling. Yeah. When's the lease up?

>> Um, April.

>> Yeah. >> It's a long ways away. >> It's a long ways away. Cuz I was like, if this thing were around the corner, I would just tell you, hey, you know what? Let's redefine the relationship. I'm willing to stay in the relationship, but I'm not going to live with you. Uh, I'm concerned about >> I think you need to say, I need to go find a roommate who was able to pay their share of the bills. >> Well, that's 100% the case.

>> And I would choose a a female friend at that point. And I would not move in with anyone else until marriage. >> Sitcom, Thre's Company. You don't even remember that. >> I do. Three company, too.

>> There we go. >> But Noel, seriously, you've got to take care of your finances right now because your name's on the lease.

>> Yeah. >> And my fear is you go, "Well, I guess I'll cover it this month. Don't cover it." >> And then month and get a roommate.

That's kind of a a real And by the way, that's not passive aggressive. That's a legitimate move that's protecting your finances. And if Sparky doesn't like it, tough.

>> Yeah. I just don't know if, you know, I should just wait and see or if I need to start. >> No, you shouldn't wait and see.

>> No, you've already got an instinct that this dude is showing a lack of character. >> I'll say it so you don't have to. That's why you called us.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm telling you, sweetheart, you're I'm I'm begging you as your fake podcast

dad, your instincts are right.

Your instincts are completely right. I can tell by your tone you are not being cruel and out of control and overreacting. >> You are not dramatic, Noel. You are you are sharp. You you've got your act together. And by the way, you deserve a guy, whether you're living with him or not, who's like, man, Noel's worthless

100%. >> I'm not going to sit around and play video games and let her pay the rent while I'm eating ramen noodles. And the research bears this out. Professor Scott Galloway says what women are looking for is a man's ability to provide future resources. And so, this is a signal and you should be paying attention to it.

Don't wait, Noel. Put the pressure on this young guy. If he's >> listen to your fake podcast dad, >> I've never said that before. >> So much wisdom. >> Take it from your fake podcast dad.

>> You're worth more, Noel. You're worth way more. And uh you got to take care of you. >> I get to be fake podcast uncle. Calling it. I was going to say brother.

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Today's question comes from Hudson in New Mexico. My parents are in their early 70s and they think their money will run out in the next several years.

They want me to sell my condo and buy a bigger home with an in-law suite that they can live in. They will contribute $225,000 toward the purchase of the new place.

Additionally, there is a life insurance policy that will leave me and my mom $450,000 when my dad passes away. The problem is that my wife does not want to live under the same roof as my parents as they do not get along. If my wife drives my parents away, I will end up with nothing from the insurance policy as they will cash it in instead to use it for their living expenses. What do I do?

>> Oh my gosh. First of all, this is framed terribly. The He's created >> He just put a wedge impossible. Do I choose my wife or my parents?

That's the real question here. >> Boy, it's a non It's a non-issue. You got to You got to go with the wife. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing on this.

George, am I right? Well, there's a now there's a price tag on the parents relationship. He's going, "Hey, I'm losing out on half a million if I go with my wife's side." He can tell the parents, "Hey, you're not living with us." >> Yeah.

Number one, for your marriage, but number two, just for your own independence. My confusion is they're in their early 70s. They can use that 225 grand to go get their own place.

>> Yeah. >> And if they can't afford that, they can use that towards rent for the next several years. >> Such a false choice. I would not combine my financial life. I've only seen it go poorly and it gets very messy financially when you go, well, this house is partially ours because we put in this portion and we want to do this renovation and we want it this way.

>> I think it's going to create an even more rift in your marriage. So, for those reasons, I'm out and I would leave the half a million on the table from the life insurance policy and go, I chose to be married to this person, the old leave and cleave. And this is we are going the opposite direction with mom and dad moving in >> creating uh some awkward situation and tension. U you know because I think it's actually maybe valuable. We'll see. I I

let's put you in this scenario George.

Let's put you in this guy's actual shoes. Okay. Your parents come to you

and and they say what what what Hey, George, sell your condo. Get a bigger house with an in-law suite. we'll give you 200 grand toward it and uh there'll be a life insurance policy to help cover expenses once dad passes.

>> I go, "Mom, dad, that's very sweet of you um to to bring this idea to me." I

talked it over with my wife, Whitney, and it just doesn't make sense for our family right now. Selling a condo is a big move. It's very expensive, and you know, we want to help in any way we can, but we don't want to combine our lives in this way, living under the same roof.

And we love you guys. And if you need any assistance or advice on what to do with this money to help create a life for yourselves, I'm happy to help. >> Okay, good. >> That's it. That's what I would say. >> I love that. >> Leave it there. >> I love that. So good. Uh Phil is on the line right here in Nashville. Phil, how can we help? >> Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Um I'm 72 years old and I'm halfway through a 30-year mortgage, so I got 15 years left. I owe $234,500

on the mortgage, which is at 3.5%.

I also have a brokerage account of $291,000 that's been earning me 7.1%.

I have two IRAs with $750,000

in them, and I also get uh $55,000

annually through Social Security. My question is, should I take the brokerage account money and pay off the mortgage or keep the mortgage uh for the mortgage

uh interest on my taxes?

>> Mathematically, keeping the mortgage for tax purposes doesn't make sense. It's stepping over a dollar to pick up a quarter. And so, what I personally, if I was in your shoes at your age, going, man, okay, I'll pay it off by 87 at this rate. I think life's too precious and I want you to have a retirement with dignity.

And for those reasons, I would free up that mortgage payment today. >> Yeah. >> You could cash that money out. You'll have the capital gains taxes on the brokerage account, but you'll still likely have enough to cover the mortgage, right?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I would do it. And how much is your mortgage every month? What number are you freeing up?

>> Uh, it's $2,380 a month. >> I just gave you a $2,300 a month raise, my friend. >> And you can do with that what you want. you can go invest that. Uh I would continue to invest it if you don't need the money and just keep piling onto that nest egg and then you got 55 grand from

social security plus you'll have a you know within the next several years you'll have multi-million dollars in there >> in that nesting. So you're going to be okay either way. I just don't want to live for the next 15 years with a mortgage if I don't have to.

>> Right. All right. >> Especially because your mortgage is a guaranteed fixed rate you're making.

Right. that 3 and a half% is what you're making by paying it off. The market, Lord only knows, I hope it continues to do well, but in the short term, it could be negative - 22% next year. And so,

it's it's hard to compare them apples to apples. But what I will say is freeing up that mortgage, especially at 72, is just going to give you some peace. It's one less thing living in your head rentree.

>> Yes. And that way, um, I would also be debtree. I don't have any other debts.

>> Yeah. You reduce your risk. You reduce the need to touch the nest egg. Are you married? >> Uh, no. I'm single. >> Oh, wow. Phil, single guy, 72. You just

freed up some money. >> Yeah. Are you in good health?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you'll likely live into your 90s with this freed up mortgage payment.

Uh, which is incredible.

>> All right. >> So, I would go crunch the numbers in your budget and go, "What kind of life can I live now? Can I spend a little more? Can I give a little more? Can I invest a little more with this freed up mortgage payment?" And I don't think you're going to miss the the brokerage account sitting there. You could stack it back up if you want.

>> Right. All righty.

>> Congrats, man. I feel like we're celebrating Phil's debt freedom today.

>> I think I I think we are. I mean, and and and who knows? I mean, the the future's bright, Phil. I mean, you're an eligible bachelor that George just found $23,000 extra income. So, come on, man.

>> All right. Time to travel, I guess.

>> There we go. >> Hey, Phil, are you a good-look guy?

>> I think he I think he's a good-look guy.

I do. He sounds like >> reasonably. >> All right. We're gonna we're gonna apply uh to get him on the Golden Bachelor.

>> You know, it's interesting. True story.

This is crazy that you said that.

>> My wife and daughter, I've got a 16-year-old daughter and they love this Golden Bachelor. >> It's so much more entertaining. >> I've not seen I've not seen it. Phil needs to check it out. >> But I feel like Phil, you could be the real life Golden Bachelor. I mean, do you know how many uh ladies out there your age uh need a stable man like you who's got plenty of dough? I mean, come on, buddy. Get on those cruises.

Uh, okay. Thank you so much.

>> Congrats, Phil. Hey, Phil had enough.

>> Phil said, "Don't get involved." >> He's like, "Guys, I I got this. I got this." >> I asked for financial advice, not relationship advice. >> Yeah. We went to the Golden Bachelor, which, by the way, he may not even know what that is.

I mean, >> it's a television show. There's a thing called television for the young kids out there. I got to explain it to them. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Do >> you watch this Golden Bachelor? >> I saw an episode or two and it was a little cringey for my take. And that's why I want Phil on there.

I think he'd be much better. much better candidate for the show. >> You know, >> it's just awkward. They did like boo the old the older ladies, they're doing like photo shoot and kind of this budois thing and I went this is too much for me.

>> Okay. You just said that you just you took me to a place that quite frankly I didn't want to go to. I I'm not going to unsee that. >> You're welcome.

>> Again, uh you know, in Phil's case though, this is a great thing here.

that decision, George. I love that the I love that you walked them through that and that's that's such a good because to your point uh I've seen some data recently what is the average uh age now

the people are reaching isn't it it's gotten higher >> oh like as far as longevity >> yeah longevity >> yeah like cuz if you take in the you know the average age well that's factoring in infant mortality and other things so when you look at it if you made it to 72 there's and you're in good health there's a strong likelihood you'll make it into your 80s and 90s >> right right so So, it's not in that situation, it's not too late. And to your point, I love how you laid that out. You know, like this money can be working for you.

>> And if he doesn't need the nest egg right now, it just sits there.

Yeah. >> So, you have 750 today. 7 years from now, he's 79. 1.5 is sitting there.

>> Oh. >> At 86, it's at 3 million.

>> That's fantastic. >> So, quite the >> What is uh 86y old George Camel doing with his time with all the money you're going to have? >> Hopefully, just not being bothered. I would just like to remain unbothered.

That means you're just sitting in your lazy boy unbothered. >> I never said it was lazy. I could sit outside. >> I ask you, "What are you doing?" And you say, "I just want to be unable playing a 99year-old Ken Coleman in pickle ball." >> Now, that's my goal. Now, that's an answer. And I think a lot of people would like to see that. I really do.

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>> That's right. Jeff is up in Michigan.

Jeff, how can we help today?

>> Yeah. So, um 49 years old. My wife

recently passed away from cancer.

>> I'm so sorry. Sorry, Jeff.

>> Yeah. So, we're good shape financially. No debt other than our mortgage. um she was a teacher and um one thing we talked about

a lot about during treatments and cancer treatment and all that was you know we saved all this money we responsible

um you know wish we would have done more trips more vacations instead of just we did a lot of home projects ourselves we

didn't hire out a lot of contractors we both have kind of a background and kind of a fearless trait to take stuff on and

um you know where where's that fine line of living life and still putting money

away to do the right things you know working still to find what my new budget is you know I'm dealing with all that and there's just a lot of stuff unanswered questions and you know >> how recent did she pass >> six weeks ago >> end of July goodness gracious

wow >> well I I would uh just Give yourself some grace and time to grieve right now.

>> I wouldn't even be thinking about a budget. I would just do enough to make sure your bills are covered and taken care of and you got food on the table.

>> But man, I mean, I can't imagine the the fog of grief that you're in right now.

And so, are you in a good spot financially to just kind of float and grieve and cover the bills and and get some help and heal? >> Yeah. Yeah. When we bought this house

eight years ago, we did everything was based on one budget and one income. if something would happen looking back, you know, we're grateful for it, but you know, it was all based on one income. We both made roughly the same amount of money. Um, I had a little bit higher income, but you know, it was Yeah. And

the biggest thing I'm fighting right now is insurance cuz she's a teacher, so health insurance was there >> and so I'm paying COBRA, which is outrageous. But for the for the next four months, you know, out of all our out of pocket was matched and met in February. So

versus starting over. >> What is your uh what's your work situation?

>> I'm a sales rep. >> Okay. And so you have no insurance through your company?

>> No, we do not. >> Okay. >> Nope. Jeeoff, one piece of homework I would give you, uh, check out our friends at Health Trust Financial and see if they can get you a a lowerpriced plan. >> You can go to healthtrustfinanicial.com and just kind of get the quote and see what what they're offering, what the rate is to help you um, shoulder some of this burden right now. Did she have any life insurance or anything?

>> That's part of my fight. We had she had one that was through school and I found out yesterday I'm going to get taxed on that one because it was one that she did not contribute to. It was just one that they provided.

>> And um >> I imagine it wasn't a lot.

>> No, it was it was 75 enough, you know, covered funeral expenses and everything else. So I didn't have to take anything out of savings and all that.

>> Yeah. But you know, she she'd have started her 22nd year this year. And um

every other year she elected the supplemental life insurance through school or through the insurance plan, which was 150 to 200k, depending on which one she selected or was available each year. And they're telling me that she did not elect it last year. And I have a hard time believing that after doing that every other year. and it's just fighting with few people to try and get the information because I can't access her documents unless they open things up for me.

And so >> she was very detail- oriented and I can't imagine she would have not elected that right >> last year.

found the tumor um right around Halloween. So all her insurance paper would have been submitted before then.

And so it's, you know, it's just those fights, those are the ones that are driving me nuts right now that >> But even without her, >> even without her income and and even with the Cobra, I I I'm wondering how

much margin you have every month just off your income.

>> I'm still clearing I'm still clearing between 8 800 and your grand.

>> Okay. >> Where I can that's extra on >> on top of your bills money right now.

>> That's after all bills are paid. Yeah.

>> Okay. Well, your question was how do you balance Cobra. >> Okay. Including Cobra. >> Okay. Good. So, you're wanting to know how you balance quote living for today versus saving for the future, especially after, you know, your life just changed dramatically. I mean, the picture that you had for the future is ju is just gone. >> And you have to grieve that and create a new one for yourself. Uh, and you're still a young guy. You're 49. Are you in good health?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, once once you've grieved and you've begun to heal, I think then you can start dreaming a little bit again and go, okay, what does the next 5year, 10 year, 15 plan look like for me?

>> And part of that is an intentionality to just, you know, let's get the mortgage knocked out in the next decade, but also

what are the things that were on the back burner that you don't want to have regrets about later on. >> Yeah. I I'm curious to know what your uh investment portfolio is, what's your retirement accounts look like?

Um, we're sitting pretty good between IAS and everything else we had combined.

I just spent time the other day with our investment guy kind of signing the paperwork over into my name, all her stuff. And then we're sitting at about 400 there. Plus, she has a pension and

I'm waiting for the paperwork from the state because the other part of that will be taking a lump sum on the pension

or riding it out and taking whatever that's going to be. >> Yeah. >> Monthly income. >> Yeah.

Generally what we find is that taking the lump sum and investing it is a better option if you're not going to need the money cuz you have control over it. The pension has a terrible rate of return. Um there's risk there and it it you know I don't know what the survivor benefits are if it all gets passed down to you or if it's 50% what the rate is but you'll have much more control on your own taking that lump sum and investing it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. So, even with your 400 grand, at 62, you'll likely have 1.5

million if you added nothing to it. And so, I would just continue on with the baby steps. Um, you do you have kids?

>> We have an adult daughter with a four-year-old grandson. >> Oh, wonderful.

Well, I would lean on family right now.

Lean on that support. Get your 15% investing still into retirement accounts. Work on anything extra. Put some toward the house.

But also, I would sit down with a budget and go, "What are some fun things that >> Yeah. that you need to be doing now, maybe that you didn't get to do, you know, you were a caretaker, I imagine, for a while and going through a real tough season. So, what are those things that do light you up and bring you some joy? >> Yeah, I love that.

>> I love that. And Jeeoff, I was going to ask, uh, on the heels of what George just said, I think he's right.

Maybe you thought, well, that's probably the one she would have most wanted to go to. Well, the only place we went out of the country for our honeymoon and we cut that short both because we both got sick and so she wanted to never go out of the country again. That was our first and only trip out of the country. >> Okay. >> And um >> but what about a place that you guys talked about that you'd like to go to?

>> We were supposed to go to Yellowstone this past summer and we started planning for that last fall um before she got diagnosed. >> I'm going to throw it out there. I'm going throw it out. trip. >> I think that's the trip that you take and you honor her and you make it a part of your healing process. I I I I would definitely think about that, you know, and uh >> and Yellowstone's beautiful.

>> Yeah. You know, and it'll be very >> You know, I was so very fortunate for the last nine months that my employer, you know, I collected my pay and just said, "Hey, take care of family and sales." That's great. >> You know, I was able to do a lot of that remotely >> and um you know, kind of reverted back to COVID times and um >> Right. >> you know, so I'm so grateful for that that you know otherwise I couldn't get

back the nine months I had. >> Yeah. What was her name? Jeff.

>> Uh Kim. >> Kim. >> Kim. Well, we want to honor her legacy and I know you are going to do that and have done that. >> Um by the way, you have just lived your life. By the way, you take care of your family, take care of your finances, and a great reminder to hug your loved ones and know that tomorrow isn't promised.

And that's why we prepare for the future because we just don't know what it will hold. And so, uh, we can't go full yolo, but you can prepare. And you guys have done a great job of that, being debtree, having money in the bank. And we wish you the best on the healing journey, my friend.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show and the fair Twins Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside and Mike is going to start us off in Florida. Mike, how can we help?

>> Uh, so I really uh h have had a few uh

major life events go on. Um,

I've uh recently had to uh relinquish my

uh rental apartment and move my uh wife

and son into a one onebedroom and uh

really had to just stay there and try and save up income. Um and

>> did you get evicted? What do you mean relinquish?

So, um, I was the, uh, sole income for

my family and, um, we didn't have the

every dollar or the Ramsay solutions way of doing things. So, I didn't have a budget and, um, so it just got piling up

and piling up and rather than get evicted, um, my wife and I decided to talk to our landlord and say, "Hey, we we don't want to be leave on bad terms." And so we relinquished it without uh having an eviction on our record.

>> Okay. So essentially you kind of broke the lease, had a mutual agreement to say, "Hey, we can't afford to live here anymore. Can we leave on good terms?" >> Yes. >> So you guys downgraded to a one-bedroom that you can afford. What What income do you guys have right now? >> So So right now I am uh delivering

pizzas and doing Door Dash and uh Uber

Eats uh to supplement my income. I would

probably say my income is probably around 25 to 30. Um, with that being uh

fluctuational uh based on tips.

>> So, you're making about two grand a month right now.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Uh, my wife is uh currently working part-time for the county and she's

probably bringing in uh 20K uh herself.

>> Okay.

with that. And uh I do want to uh

explain the one-bedroom situation is actually staying with a blended family.

Uh I'm staying with my in-laws right now in a 10 by 12 bedroom uh as a family of

three. >> Well, all three of you are staying in there, >> correct? >> Okay. And how old is your kid?

>> And uh so my son is a year and a half.

>> Okay. You're in the same bedroom with your in-laws. You're all sleeping in the same room. >> Oh, no. No, no. Uh, my wife and my wife,

myself, and my son are in the same room.

>> Oh, okay. Got it. All right. Sorry. I just >> And you're not paying any kind of rent or you don't have any expenses there for housing right now. They're just letting you crash.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, what's your question today?

>> So, my question today is I have a huge

passion uh to start my own business, start my own side hustle. I don't know if it's going to be more harm than good if I was to invest that in a uh startup

and try and bring in some income for myself. I'm very much a

uh work or performance-based worker. So, I'm going to uh I would invest all my time in doing that. Uh >> what's the business >> in my off? >> So, I'm a finance guru. I feel um

>> a guru and I like to deal with numbers and >> that doesn't make you but that doesn't make you a guru.

>> A guru means like you're widely respected because of the I just want to help you out there because I'm a little nervous about where we're going with this. What is the business?

>> It's a just a uh bookkeeping uh

accounting. Uh, it's what I want to go to school for and I feel like bookkeeping would be the first level in doing that. >> Have you done any bookkeeping before?

>> I have. I have about a year and a half to two years experience, entry level.

>> Great. And so right now, let's play this out. What would you charge? What's the going rate for somebody like you with your experience? Um, I don't know if it's an hourly thing. Uh, give it give us the numbers here.

So, I was thinking um I it would be a

monthly uh recurrent fee. Uh I would be

charging anywhere from 3 to 500 depending on the size of uh the companies. If they're a smaller business, it'll probably be about 350. I would track all their uh >> financial transaction. >> How many hours do you anticipate um uh

working for 350 bucks?

So, I'm thinking anywhere from uh about

10 to 15 hours per client.

>> And you're only going to charge 350 bucks a month.

>> Uh just starting now? Uh yes. Um

>> and you have no credentials right now?

>> No credentials. I uh do plan on going to school, but at this moment, I figured increasing my income is top priority.

And so >> I Okay. The reason I'm walking you through this is to be a sounding board because that's what you wanted from us.

>> I don't know in this particular in your financial situation unless you've got previous clients um that can uh open up doors for you and

that's certainly worth trying. If you've got that to where you could pick up some people on the side and you can start doing this for extra income then great.

Uh the other thing about this business is that it doesn't require a whole lot of investment to get up and going.

You're not buying you're not buying machinery.

Um, so that's a positive,

>> but >> I'm, you know, >> I'm projecting no more than $500 uh just

for the startup cost and the LLC created and computer >> and stuff like that. So, >> I wouldn't put a lot of effort into that right now. I would see if I could get some people if we can throw the the uh the fishing rod out there, throw the the cast the rod, and let's go. Let's see if we can find something.

And if we can pick up something, let's just go do that. Let's just do basic 1099 if somebody small business. Let's see what we can get. I wouldn't invest a nickel right now, George, in trying to launch this business.

So, it's not the time to kind of like invest into a passion project. I love the idea of you making income. So, if you can get a few clients, let's do that and use the proceeds from that to then fund this thing later on to get the education. But right now, you guys can't afford to breathe. you'd be better served working at Walmart stocking shelves.

>> Uh I've tried applying everywhere. I gone to Walmart multiple times during the week and I've asked to speak to a manager trying to get that on-site job and >> and they tell you go online >> and I appreciate that gumption, but we don't just And my point is you keep going. >> You keep going. You you right now have got to do anything. If you show up on a construction site and go, "Do you need a laborer?" Um, and and I'll I'll give me a shovel.

Uh, I'll carry bricks around the site.

Like, that's the level of of urgency

that you need right now.

>> Mhm. >> We don't just, you know, and I appreciate you went to Walmart, but your response to me should be, you're right.

You're right, Ken. I'm continuing to do that, and I've done Walmart. It's not working out, but I'm going to go to I'm going to go to Target next or I'm going to Big Lots or I'm going, you know, and I'm going to show up again on a construction site. I'm gonna tell you something right now, George. I've said this before, but in today's current environment, if I was looking for fast money that was decent money, I would

literally get in my car and drive around construction sites. I'm not saying that you're going to get something every time you go, but you know, they need a lot of times you're going to find that they need somebody to just do something hard work and and manual labor u is not the

place where everybody's lining up.

>> There's not a line out there. Well, if you live in a neighborhood, you got clients there cuz you know, as Dave says, rich people are scared of leaves.

So, you just go around and say, "Hey, I saw your your grass a little overgrown. I I've been cutting loans in the neighborhood. Be happy to do it. Here's my rate." You're going to have to get creative uh until you can get this this side hustle off the ground. But right now, we need to get some consistent income. See if your wife can work more.

I don't know what the child care situation is, but if we have that under control, both of you need to be working 40, 50 hours a week to clean up the mess, get to a stable place so that you can rent your own place again soon. But this is a lot going on. It's not the time to pursue uh this thing over on the side. I agree.

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Don is up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Don, how can we help today?

>> Hello. So, I'm looking for a little bit of advice on how I should um approach

some debt that I have outstanding.

>> So, just for background, I'm recently divorced um July of last year and I had

to refinance my house um as a result of the divorce. So, not talking about the house right now. The only debt that I have is uh 18K for a car. So, I'm trying

to determine do I get a second job? Am I

being too uh conservative fiscally that I could probably pay more of it off now?

>> That leads me to believe that you are.

It's the very question that you asked there leads me to believe you are. So what what evidence do you think that you have that says, hey, I could put a little bit more towards this?

>> Well, just in my checking account, I maintain about 7 to 9,000 month over

month after, you know, I pay my bills and everything. So, I have that and then I have in my emergency fund about 31K.

>> Whoa. >> So, I have some cushion.

>> I mean, you could pay off the car today.

>> Yeah. >> If you were doing the baby steps, we'd say start with a,000 bucks in the starter emergency fund, pay off all debt. You have enough to do that, then begin 3 to 6 months of expenses. So, you're doing the baby steps out of order. But the good news is you could be debtree today and this could you could burn less brain calories on this whole thing.

So I I guess I'm just it's just me now.

So I guess if something happened with my job, I don't anticipate that, but if something happened with my job than I'd be unemployed and then that cushion would go away. >> Well, something happened with your job. You couldn't afford the car, it's getting repoed. And so you've got risk on either side. You've got more risk owing other people money and not owning this asset right now. And you're still going to have $13,000 even if you pay off the car today. And then you'll begin rebuilding that. What's your car payment?

um 415 a month. >> So you add that now you have that extra margin to add to your emergency savings goal. That's an extra five grand a year right there. And how much can you throw at the at your savings right now if you freed up that 415?

>> How much could I if I freed it up? So So I come away after I pay all my bills every month. I do have about 1,500 over left over. Right. >> Right. So what we're saying is is if there's no car pay now it's $1,900. Oh,

>> okay. >> So, that's that's another 23 grand. If you did that for 12 months, you just put that 1,900 away, you'd have about 23 grand on top of the 13.

>> So, you're going to be fine.

>> Okay. >> And then you can start investing.

>> So, then that's what I was going to ask you. That was the second piece. So, hold off on the invest. I have a little bit of investment now, but hold off. I'm thinking about some EFTs that my friend told me about and I do need to research.

So, >> you mean ETS?

EFTs. I'm sorry. Electronically uh funed trade. Yes, EFTs. Sorry about that.

>> ETF. >> Um I keep saying it wrong.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's all right. We know. >> But similar thing. Are you do you have a retirement account through your employer right now? >> I do have a um one through my current employer and I do have some ones uh some additional ones from a prior employer.

>> Okay. I would get uh the part of your homework is rolling over the prior employer money. I would just do a direct roll over to an IRA. that'll give you the most control and flexibility.

>> It is an IRA. I should have said that.

Yes, it's already in the IRA.

>> Okay. >> It rolled it rolled over. It's not in It's separate from my current employer, but it is an IRA. >> Okay. So, you have that. So, I would just not contribute any more until you're out of debt with that 3 to six months of expenses.

>> So, if your expenses are five grand a month to cover all your your basic bills, then I would suggest having 25K 30k in there.

>> Okay. Okay. And then one other >> Okay. And then one other question. So, um, for my 401k, I'm currently doing 6%,

my employer matches, um, 4% up up to,

um, 100K, and then after that, it's I

think I can't remember what it is. It's 50% after that. Okay. >> Should I not increase my 6% while I'm

trying to pay off do all these? You just told me you would be willing to pause all investing until you you get into a better spot financially. And it won't be long, but I would pause that 6% cuz how much do you make a year?

>> About 157, >> including my bonus. >> So 157 6% is $9,400 extra you could be

throwing your emergency fund, which means it's going to get done faster. So here's the honest truth. You could be done with this whole thing 5 6 months from now. You could be debt free completely if you pay off the car today, then restock the emergency fund over the next five months and you'll be back to investing not 6% but 15%. You're almost

going to triple your investing rate.

>> Do you see that?

>> I I see some of what you're saying. So you're saying what I what I'll lose from my employer not matching because if I stop doing my piece, they don't match anything. So you said what I'll lose on that is not significant enough to make me go the other route. >> Exactly.

And the other thing it does, it lights a fire under you because you love that match. You want to get back to that match, which means you're working even harder to get that emergency fund back stocked up. That's what I found. That's human nature.

You're working really hard to restock your emergency fund on, not working really crazy to pay off a car. That is a depreciating asset.

>> Right. I'm That makes total sense how you just said it. I'm working I work hard to build savings, not >> Yes. pay for something that goes down in value. >> That's right. >> You're building for the future instead of paying for the past. Do it this way.

>> And yes, and by the way, we love that you called, Don, because it is a very real psychological hurdle to to cut a

big check from an emergency fund.

Totally get it. However, the reason I told you about how you're working hard to replenish your savings so that you

can invest and start be on your path to becoming a millionaire, which I want George to paint a picture for that in just a moment. But understand that the minute that you uh pay the car off, which is a depreciating asset, you also are now freeing up $400 plus dollars a month right back into your pocket. So, I

just want you to see that full picture so you can overcome that psychology of

I don't like writing a big check out of my emergency fund. That's why I asked you, do you see it?

>> I I do. I I just got to get over because it's just me now, you know.

>> Totally get it. >> I'm divorced. So, I I do get what you're saying, though. >> Yeah. Well, because if you see it, you believe it.

>> And what the other thing I've been thinking about is getting the part-time job. >> Sure. my full-time job and get a part-time job to help with this. Do you think that makes sense as well? >> Yes. And I'll tell you why. I don't know what George thinks, but I say yes because it's going to further help you with the psychology that I just outlined. Like, think about how you think about how much more secure you're going to feel because you're bringing in that extra money.

>> Got it. >> And here's the truth. You don't need it financially. You're going to get through this pretty fast. But I do think it's going to light a fire under you after you just went through one of the hardest things a human could experience. Yeah.

>> And I think action always helps uh with healing versus just sitting around >> binging Netflix. >> Now, real quick, George, paint a picture for her when she gets to baby step four.

>> Oh, let's do it. >> Let's do the investment calculator. >> What's your total uh retirement investments right now?

>> About 380K.

>> I like it. >> You got to like How old are you?

>> I am 56.

>> 56. Now, we're going to ride this out.

you make 157. That's before the bonus.

But if you do 15%, you're going to be maxing out a 401k. That's 235 right there. >> Do you understand that? Okay. >> So that's let's say two grand a month.

>> You're going to have uh quite the nest egg. Let's say you do this till 67.

>> Oh boy. Let me see it. Let me see it before you tell her. >> Okay. >> Oh. Oh boy. Don, are you ready for this?

George, tee it up. >> I am. >> 1.6 million

>> at 60. >> I don't know how you did the math. That's You can jump on ramseyolutions.com. use our free investing calculator. You're 56 current age. I did 67 retirement age.

Currently, you have 380 grand. If you contribute 2 grand a month, and we assume a 10% rate of return, that's what we've seen overall in the US stock market. You're going to have 1.6 million. Only 264,000 of that is the money you put in. Almost a million is just compound growth doing the heavy lifting for you. Go do it yourself, Don.

So, you can see he's not making magic over here. This is real numbers.

>> I like it. >> Pumped for you, Don. You got a great income. Let's use it to build some wealth. >> Go Dawn. Go.

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Hey folks, we would love for you to share the show if uh this show is helping you, entertaining you in any form or fashion. Share, like, follow,

subscribe, the whole nine yards. Uh >> smash all the buttons you see.

>> Oh, that's what the YouTubers say. Smash the like button. >> Is this thing Is this a thing?

>> 100%. You know, it cracks me up how often between you and Jade I hear something new and I've never heard before. >> I give Ken an education every day against his will. >> Yeah. Well, no, I actually appreciate it. I'm not But I will say I'm not comfortable ever saying the word smash

in a video. I feel like I'm too old for that. And if you hear me do it, I I want you to just hit me right in the >> Your teenage daughter would not like it.

She would hate it. She would call it cringe. >> She would say, "Dad, that's so cringe." >> There we go.

>> Yeah. There's certain words that I don't think I should say. They're just too young for me, you know. And that's >> Can I just say just because you don't like something, it's not your preference, doesn't make it cringe.

>> Can we just drop that? >> Yeah. It's very bothersome. >> Thank you very much. What is cringe to you, someone else likes, you know, kind of like my uh cardigan sweaters. >> That is cringe.

>> Now I'm You're aging into it very nicely. >> It's perfect. >> Aging very well. >> All right, we digress. Scott is up in North Carolina. Scott, how can we help today?

>> Hey, good afternoon, guys. So, um, I overall had a question based on my current financial situation and thinking ahead now that I'm getting a little older, um, as to whether or not to pull some money out and renovate a separate building on my residential property to rent out as like a one-bedroom, one bath studio kind of apartment. >> Nice. How much money would it cost to renovate this?

Um, currently I'm thinking it's probably around like 40k to renovate it.

>> And what will it turn into? What will that give you? 40 grand for how many square feet? Uh, and then also what do you think you would be able to make on rental?

>> So be around um 650 700 ft². And the

realtors that I've spoke with based on the location, etc. estimated around $1,000 a month. But I was kind of thinking 800 as conservative number.

>> Okay. And what would it add to the overall property value, you know, for resale?

>> Um, now that aspect, honestly, I haven't really discussed with them that much, so I'm honestly not sure. >> You planning to be there forever?

>> Um, currently, yes. I mean, that's something that led me to the question because they just did a a reevaluation of property taxes here and then like shot up. Um, >> but see that that's why I even though you're you're planning to stay there forever, if I'm going to sink 40 grand into something, George, on my property, I'm automatically going to go, how much value did this add to the entire thing if I were to sell? So, right now, you got your home, x amount of bedrooms, bath, acorage, whatever.

there. So, that would be one thing, but if you're staying there forever, that's fine. But I still think it's worth looking into. And then the other thing is is is how what do you think? What gives you a lot of confidence or how much confidence do you have that you would be able to rent this out on a regular basis?

>> I'm pretty confident. I mean, the area I live in, it's very close to um a lot of universities, um hospitals, things of that sort. Um so I I wouldn't think that I would have any kind of problem finding a long-term renter for >> So it's a onebedroom and you're putting it out there. So like people coming in for football games or tourism or something like that. You're that's that's what you think this is.

>> Um but potentially I mean I was thinking more of like a you know um like just to establish a long-term renter specifically. >> Oh a long-term renter. All right. All right. I asked all the questions. Uh George is is very particular on these things. >> Well, I'm just you trying to backtrack and go why are we doing all this? Is it just to cover an increase in property taxes?

um I mean property taxes I mean that and

the thing is currently I've been with my employer the majority of my adult life but there's a lot of change going on and currently I don't necessarily feel I guess secure in my position um and in the area I'm not sure that I'd be able to find a job equivalent making to what I make now so just think once again >> what do you make now >> um with not taking into account annual bonuses around 110 >> I just don't think a thousand bucks a month solves the problem you're trying to solve.

>> So, aside from my retirement account, um I did start um you know, obviously I've tried to save some. I've not been the best at it, but I've tried to save and I did start investing in the stock market during co and the returns on that have been um pretty positive. So, I think between my brokerage account and personal savings, I have around 80 grand saved. >> Okay. That's actually liquid. You're not going into retirement for any of this money, >> correct?

man. I mean, it's a gamble. It's going to take you probably five years to just break even on this. >> And that's why I'm out. >> And you also said if you didn't have this job, you'd likely have to move to make something similar, which tells me you might need to sell this house uh

before, you know, you even break even on it. So, I mean, 80K, you you're fine to

cover the property taxes. I just think you're trying to do multiple things at once and go, "Well, property taxes are going up. Might as well get a rental." uh versus just going, "Hey, what can I do in my budget to just add a syncing fund and cover this added expense? My payment just went up every month. I can handle it." Because being a landlord on your own property has its own problems.

There's risks. There's vacancy. There's maintenance. There's repairs. There's the actual renovation, which is probably going to cost you more than you think it will because that's usually how it goes.

>> I actually think you're afraid. I think what's driving this is the job situation. That's what I heard. I heard that you're a guy who's I'm not so sure that you're going to have your job for very long. That's what I heard.

>> Honestly, I think that's the main part of it because I mean, ideally, I wouldn't necessarily want to handle a long-term rental and have that add stress, >> right? I think you just answered the question. Well, the reason I Okay, so I'm glad you you answered that because here's the thing. >> That's why I drove I drove in on that point. >> So fear is driving this possibility. And

so if we play this out, the very thing you're afraid of happening, this actually would be one of the worst things you could do if the fear came true. In other words, 40 grand of cash,

and to George's point, there's no guarantee that's going to be 40. So you you need that 40k. I'd want that 40k in

liquid. I'd want it there so that I had a cushion if I needed a cushion if I

lose my job. So, the very thing you're trying to solve with this idea, uh, I

don't think this is anywhere near the best idea. I think the best idea is to hold the cash and stack the cash.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Leaving it invested and then you getting a part-time job will have better ROI in the meantime. So, if you're really angling to make a little more money right now and you want to make 750 a month, you can go do that using the skills that you have today. >> That's a great point. Go make a,000 bucks doing something else.

>> Gotcha. Makes sense. I mean, I do have like I guess one follow-up question around that scenario. And I think I already know the answer.

I mean, just thinking logically through this, but wanted to kind of pose it to you as well. I mean, because I was thinking like worst case scenario, if I were to lose my job, cuz I I don't necessarily want to leave this area, this area I grew up in or whatnot. Um, if I were unable to find an an equivalent job making what I make, I mean, I considered potentially cashing out my 41k cuz my 41k >> horrible idea. You're going to be calling us at 60 going, "Hey, man.

I'm broke. I don't have anything in retirement and my body gave out. I can't work anymore. I don't have anything in retirement.

>> Yeah. >> Do not cash it out.

>> And that was my initial thought, but that was like a nogo in the back of my mind. So, I appreciate y'all. >> Unless Unless you're facing bankruptcy or foreclosure, you never touch your retirement accounts if you're not 59 and a half yet. >> Yeah. Scott, I want to if I can Can I encourage your heart on something and I I'm not saying this critically, but here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a guy who is looking at a a real

possibility of something bad happening and you've gotten protective instead of proactive. I think everything I'm hearing is a protective solution instead

of a proactive solution. That's what I hear. And I think that you need to happen to this possibility, not try to go, how do I protect myself from this bad thing happening? I consider a 401k thing, which is a horrible decision. I'm considering spending money on this rent thing. as opposed to going if this happens I I I'm going to do this this and this and I'm going to spend my time connecting with people and I'm going to give you a copy of my book the proximity principle just as as some form of hey

I'm going to build my network starting today so that if this happens um I can

be proactive and not protective. I I just sense that over you and that by the way we all fall into that with fear. But I think the best way to handle something that could be a negative that could be coming is to think proactively on how to solve it not protectively. George a good word. Nothing to add. No notes. No notes.

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Our

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scripture of the day comes from Psalm 86:1. Teach me your way, Lord, that I may rely on your faithfulness. Give me an undivided heart that I may fear your name. And our quote of the day from Mark Twain. Don't let schooling interfere with your education. I know Ken loves that one. I do love a good Mark Twain.

By the way, I'm reading the biography on Mark Twain right now by Ron Chernow.

How's that? >> It's a tough read. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> I thought he'd be a fascinating guy.

>> He is. Turnout's a little heavy.

>> Oh, >> I just I don't want to endorse the book because And I got Dave reading it and Dave and I were talking the other day on the show. He's like, "Man, that's pretty heavy." I It's It's just It's not an easy read >> in light of who Twain was. You would think it'd be a more brevity, a >> little bit little bit lighter fair. It's a very good point. Very good point.

Carol is joining us in Charlottesville, Virginia. Carol, how can we help today?

>> Hi there. So, I have an anecdote for you. I was at the credit union the other week and I was at the teller window and this gentleman walks up to the next teller window and the teller says, "How are you today?" And he goes, "Better than I deserved." And I was like, "Dave

Ramsey in Charlottesville." >> The secret signal. It's how you know they're a real one. Yeah. Did you Did you like give the guy a knowing look and say, "I know you." >> Yeah, I did. I said I said, "I know where that comes from." And he chuckled as he was depositing his money.

>> Love it. Um, >> by the way, can I just can I just say, Carol, I love that you use the word chuckle. It's one of my favorite words.

I don't think we use it enough. So, thank you.

>> You're welcome. Okay, so I have three

properties. My primary home, my and two rentals, the duplex, and primary home is

paid off. But how much based on how much

would you put aside for you know like

the roof may be replaced one day or the HVAC is going to go out. Is there a percentage of the value of the property I should have in a syncing fund or

>> is there is there a formula >> for that? >> Good question. George, what do you think? >> Uh I don't think there's like an industry standard formula, but I think you know kind of going hey 10% of rent if I can afford to put that aside. So, if you're renting it for 1,200 bucks, can you put away 120 bucks a month?

>> And if you feel like based on the It also depends on what's going on with the house. Is it a 20-y old roof? Well, you're probably going to need a roof fairly soon. And so, I would um you know, you could do an inspection on it and kind of see where the problem areas might be cuz they'll tell you, hey, the HVAC is okay, but you're probably looking at 5 years you're going to need to replace this thing.

>> If it's a brand new property, it might mean a lot less issues. So, it really depends on the current state of the properties.

>> Exactly. >> Did you have a number in mind?

>> Um, I, you know, I've read have Googled this and, you know, it says anywhere from 5 to 10% of the property value of

the >> That feels real high. That seems like a lot. What would that be for you?

>> So, each each of these duplexes, one well, one of them just got renovated completely. Um, and that that set me

back about 42. But that was everything.

New flooring, siding, windows, had to replace some floor. >> Yeah. See, none of that's going to just spring up on you. And that's the stuff you want to get ahead of the stuff you know is coming. And then also have some for the emergency stuff that you can't foresee coming. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. >> So, the one I've heard is 1% of the property value. So, 10%. Now, 1% a year.

>> Yeah. 1% per year.

>> Yeah. So eventually you might have 10% of the value.

>> One of them is like 300k. The other one is probably 250 because it does need work. But this one's been totally redone. 300. So 1% is what?

>> Well, on the be 2500,000

2500 or Okay.

>> Yeah. I would have an ultimate goal of saying, "Hey, can we have 30k each in an account eventually?" >> Yeah. >> But if you can't do that tomorrow, that's okay. Um, but if you know one of them needs more work sooner, I would stack that one up faster. And you can always move the piles of money around. It doesn't have to be, you know, 30k here, 30k there. You can move it around eventually if something comes up.

>> Yeah. I had one account that services both houses.

>> Are they paid off? You have a mortgage on both the rentals right now?

>> Well, yeah. Well, um, the one that I'm in was paid off and I my primary

residence had a house fire. Oh my goodness. Bless your house. >> So, that was completely gutted. That house is paid off, but I had to gut that house and I've had to cash flow some of

the stuff that insurance wouldn't pay for. So, to do that, I took a mortgage out on the one rental property to help until I can get settled. >> Oh, it was paid off, but you had you went backwards to fund it.

>> Taking the equity. >> Yes. But my primary is turn So, I had this grand plan. I just turned 59 last week. everything was going to be paid off by the time I turned 60. All of my mortgages and that didn't happen. But still trying to make that happen. What are they worth? The insurance company >> and what could you what's left on the mortgages?

>> Yeah, my So, uh 150 is owed on this one

that's worth 300 and I owe 27 on the one

next door that's worth 250. And then my primary home, the value because it's been totally redone. Everything's been redone. That's probably going to be a half million at least.

And that's paid off. >> That's great. >> I'd work on knocking out that 27K rental mortgage and then move on to the 150 one. And worst case, if you don't like one of them, just sell it and pay off the other one and be done.

>> Yeah, that that I've been thinking about that, too.

>> Exactly. No, and it's been a Well, I've been living in the one rental while the my primary home is been being renovated.

Yeah. >> So, that that was good. I didn't have to pay rent somewhere else. I'm just living here for free. >> What are you clearing on What are you clearing on both of the uh condos?

Um, on this one I'm clearing Well, it

was paid off. So, probably $1,100

between the two. So, like 500 each.

>> See, that's the point that George is making. >> It's just >> for 13 grand a year. >> That's a lot. >> Without even the risk and, you know, vacancy, repairs, maintenance.

>> I'm going if you sold one of them and put the excess in an investment account, you could probably make 13 grand.

>> Yeah. >> P truly passively with no headache.

>> I've got Yeah. Well, I've got 1.5 in my

investment account. So, >> good for you. I would I would get rid of one of these. Uh I I I would sell the

the the one with more debt on it and then pay off the other one and you can hold on to that for a while if you want to. And that's that's a whole lot less.

>> The thing with real estate is you need a lot of it in order to actually replace your income. >> So, to make 500 bucks a month, maybe I

don't know if it's if it's worth it for you. If you're kind of done with it, you're dealing with a lot of issues, the house needs a lot of repairs, there's nothing wrong with throwing in the towel and going, you know what, I tried it. It was fun for a season. I'm turning 60. I just want less hassle factor.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, that crossed my mind, too. And then, you know, the other thing is I went back through my I was I'm not a baby step Ramsay person, but I've always lived below my means because both of my parents were depression era kids, right?

So, we always live below our means. you know, we had everything we needed. My father always said, "If we don't have a cash, then we're not getting it." I mean, that was the role. So, that's how I've been raised. And >> that'll get you far in curiosity.

>> I went back and looked at my social security statement, you know, for all the years I've been working since what, 1984 or whatever, >> the average the average of my salary was $48,900.

>> Wow. >> And I'm sitting on $2.5 million at the moment. So, I'm pretty pretty good. Way to go. >> No, you're not pretty good. You're pretty freaking awesome is what you are.

That's That's just phenomenal. That's another reason at 59 I would unload one

of these things and not have the debt on it. >> You got so much money in your retirement. That's >> George, what is she going to >> It's not going to change your net worth cuz that 1.5 million, you know, by the time you're 66 will be three if you don't do anything. >> If you don't do anything, >> right? >> I would enjoy my life a little bit more.

That's just too much of a headache for someone who's worth what you're worth.

That's my opinion. Like none of this is you're not in trouble. >> But this is just if I look at how much money you're actually making on this for the >> If it was paid off and it was a cash cow and it was very little effort and a little hassle factor, I'd say just keep it. You're enjoying it.

But it feels like the joy is gone >> and you don't need >> Well, it it really I mean I have great tenants. Um the tenant that I've had, she's been over here for 15 years. She she is not a hassle.

that was in this house wasn't a hassle either until she her circumstances changed. But anyway, you know, and I >> Yeah, well, the people may not be a hassle. Just the maintenance and upkeep.

>> Yeah, we're just saying need any of this. So, you're doing great. Uh, fantastic. Fantastic scenario. Thanks for calling us. You're doing glad to end on a high note. >> Oh, I love that. And hey to the rest of you, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 137. Small Financial Wins Lead To Big Financial Impact | March 27, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:39:15 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. And I

am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Delony, and it's open lines. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

We're talking about your life and your money. Uh first up is Sue in Houston, Texas. Hi

Sue, welcome to the show.

Hello. Hi, how can we help today?

I was trying to determine um if my

husband is being financially abusive.

Okay. So, what's going on?

Um he has two separate bank accounts on

top of a joint bank account that we have. Only a portion of his check goes into the joint bank account. All of my money goes into the joint bank account.

Um he is constantly upset, making accusations that I'm spending thousands more than we should be spending. Um and but he doesn't really know what our bills are um cuz I'm the one who logs in and pays the bills.

And so, he just tells me that I'm hiding things from him, and he thinks I have the separate bank accounts when I do not. And I just

>> Very. Well, often the the complaint that you're making about your spouse is the thing that you're doing.

So, spouses that are like, "Are you cheating on me? I know you're cheating on me." often have something going on on the side.

Right? So, his paranoia about, "What are you doing with our money?" or "With my money." may be rooted in him doing what he's

doing with his money. I I I don't know if calling this financial abuse is instructive here. I think what's instructive here is you feel out to lunch and you're getting accused to to about things that you're not doing and you have a partner who's totally disengaged from you and the household finances and yet swoops in and tries to

quarterback everything and I would deal with that directly or the ramifications of he won't deal with it directly, right? Mhm. Yeah, what does he say when you ask are you a Do you have access to his other two accounts? Are you able to just see it you know, you may not have a card, but can you log in and see what he's doing?

No, I do I do not have any access. I do not know what money goes in to the accounts. I know for a fact a portion of his check goes directly into one other account. >> Why is he have it What What does he say he sets it up that way?

He's never mentioned um other than hinting that he just wants to make sure that he can take care of himself if anything were to happen. Um one time he has messaged me and blatantly said that

he transfers money out of the account to

his other account to make sure that if he ever needed to get an attorney, he would be taken care of.

Or divorce. Out of the blue, he like text you that or you guys were in a fight? I don't under- I just don't understand where he's coming from. Has he always been like this?

Yes. Um he goes like through this regularly. Um probably

once every other month. Um he has questions about it. It usually doesn't last very long, but this time we're going into the third week of continuing

to not see eye to eye with the finances. Um

but it's hard to see eye to eye when I can't see part of the finances and what

he's spending money on. I don't care that he has separate bank accounts. I don't care that he spends money out of those accounts. I don't even care what he spends the money on because we are able to take care of things still.

>> Well, you you should care. And I I make

you care, so like and I even saying should isn't isn't a nice thing to say. Um What I would tell Give me this answer. Where else are y'all not together?

Um Where else does he do whatever he just good and gets good and ready to do leaving you to take care of the kids, the house, the whatever?

Yeah, I we don't see eye to eye on almost everything, really. Um So it I'm

wondering if the money is a proxy war here to avoid dealing with the reality that y'all Y'all aren't even good co-managers of your house. You're the manager of the house. You just have an overbearing CEO that swoops in every once in a while and yells about stuff and threatens and takes some of the money out of the account and then leaves again.

And so this won't be solved by {quote} getting on the same page with your money. Y'all need to go see a marriage therapist like ASAP cuz I cuz

I think your the marriage y'all had is over and y'all need to decide whether y'all want to build a new one together. And I can almost guarantee you because of the way he's talking and treating you and your household finances, he is he is either planning an out or he is dealing with some psychiatric issues that make him feel like there's an out happening.

And um but y'all need to get down to the reality here. The money is a symptom of a really a much bigger issue in your marriage. And you And you know that, right? I'm not telling you something you don't know. You feel that every day, right?

Correct, yes. I I pretty much knew the answer to my question already, but it was more of one of those confirmation hearing it from someone else. >> Yeah. Um Sue, how long have you been And it Sorry, keep going.

Um I just And I tell him that like let's go to a counselor, let's get the root of the problem because that's not his only argument. There are many many many other >> arguments that he just bounces between when he gets in this mindset.

>> uh >> uh

Do And you you work outside the home, too? I own a cleaning business, yeah. >> Okay. Do you have enough money in your account to pay the bills for your home?

If he did not contribute, I would not have enough to pay by myself because I have employees and cost expenses that I have to take care of on top of taxes.

But I mean, that that should not be in your household account. That should be in a business account.

Um in the state of Texas, it's not required to have separation >> Here's it's not it's not about it being required. It's just not wise cuz it mixes everything. Cuz suddenly you need groceries and you're trying to pay somebody else's like the hours they put in last week.

You get what I'm saying? Mhm. Just from a clean accounting perspective, having it separate's important when you're running a small business. So, I would do that.

And then I would have your own account at this point. >> Yeah, you're getting to a place where you have your own account. But But Rachel, my concern is if she started had her own account to make sure the lights stayed on and the and the mortgage stayed paid, he's going to pull out his what he puts in there every month and you're going to you can't you can't support yourself on that. Correct.

We've created a lifestyle that requires both of our pay. Okay. Well, then he gets screwed in the process, too, cuz his lights are going to be cut off in the home that he lives in.

His secret accounts, all of that gets laid bare in a divorce hearing.

Mhm. Right? It's not like he's got this secret pot that he gets to play with when when the when when one of y'all files, all of that gets put into a big pot that gets divvied up. And so, um I don't know what he thinks he's preparing for, but it's not reality. Uh how long have you guys been married, Sue? Um we have been together for 19 years

with a 4-year separation because of mental illnesses on his part. And married for nine of those years. Okay.

What what is his diagnosis?

Um actual diagnosis is bipolar. There

have been discussions of schizophrenia and paranoia. >> Okay. Yeah. Um but no medication. He

He's not He's not He's not managing it.

Correct. >> Okay. Well, then that makes sense like in my head and my That's That's a safety issue. >> Yeah, that's the piece of the puzzle that Yeah. makes all this make sense.

Yeah. Like it's him. I mean, yeah, he's not he's not okay. He's not healthy.

>> Yeah, and even trying to discuss it with him, whether right or wrong on my part, it there's no getting through. No, it well and and I don't use this word lightly, but he's he's not well. He's sick.

And he's he's untreated. His illness is untreated, but um he's not well. And so you continuing to try to bang your head up against that that that situation is only going to give you a bruise, right?

And so we have to take care of ourselves when those around us aren't taking care of themselves.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money, like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're not going to fix your habits, that part's on you, but they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts so you can organize your money on purpose.

in the best way. So, if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your Smart Bundle today at fairwinds.org/ramsey and get the Ramsey Be Weird debit card to go along with it. That's fairwinds.org/ramsey insured by the NCUA.

Up next in New York City, we have Valerie on the line. Hi Valerie.

Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing well. How are you?

I'm okay. Um yeah, I just wanted to get on here. I've seen a few of your videos and I love the advice you give to people.

And um I'm going to start a licensed practical nurse nursing program in August and I

was going to pay my tuition out of pocket. It's all It's $8,000.

Unfortunately, uh my fiance lost his job. So, I've been

whittling away at my savings.

So, it does no longer seems like an option. Either way, so I was trying to find

a student loan. And I didn't think it would be so difficult, but I guess because it's not a college and it is a similar nursing program. Mhm. They don't

They won't loan money to a school that they're not associated with. Like any school loan company.

And I really don't know where to go from here. I've never taken out a loan for anything. Yeah, please don't start. Valerie, please don't start, okay? Yeah, we're probably not going to We're not well, we're not probably we're not the ones that are going to direct you on how to get a loan. We're the ones to help you get out of debt, not get you in debt. So, uh did you say it was $8,000 for the program?

Correct. >> Okay. Valerie, is this an unaccredited program?

You know, that's the thing, right? It's a It's a Passaic County Technical Institute, right? It's a vocational high school and they have an a furthering adult learning program. Okay. So, that you can get your LPN license. It's a one-year program.

So, I'm really not sure how it's labeled, but when I go and ask uh

loaning companies like Sallie Mae or something, they try to look for it and they say, "Oh, we're not associated with this school, so we don't do loans for that." Yeah. >> it's the same thing. You just want to make sure that the degree is is usable.

Yeah, I I I would before I gave this college a penny I or this program a penny >> Oh, well, this program I have cousins I have gotten in this program. They paid it out of pocket.

Um and they're working and they're making great money, you know? >> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, Valerie, what you got to do, girl? What you got to do? You got to You got to come up with eight grand in five months. So, you need 1,500

to $2,000 a month. What can you do as a side hustle to get that? >> Well, I could tell you can stop paying off your paying for your fiance.

Your fiance needs to go start bagging groceries and like throwing trash and

driving Uber, whatever Oh, yeah, cuz you're dwindling your savings for him. That's right. >> Whatever they got to do.

Well, yeah, we've we've lived together for a long time, you know? And you know, it's just paying the rent. You know, you before we were splitting it splitting the bills and now I'm covering the whole thing while we're looking well, while he's looking for another job. >> let me let me In the meantime, he's been selling his things, but you know Yeah, let me say it like this.

Your choice to cover for his

expenses is a choice to delay going to nursing school. It's just that simple cuz you don't have the money.

And a bank makes money by loaning you money.

And the banks have looked at you and said, for whatever reason, we don't feel comfortable giving you this money.

Either for because your loan risk doesn't sound like you are or we don't think that the product that you're want to want to buy with this borrowed money, which in your case is a degree, we don't feel safe giving you that money. And so you don't have it. And so it's it it's I I hate it's it's a math problem. Oh, you for sure can get it.

>> you can get it, Valerie. You have five You have eight You have five months.

And it's a year-long program. I wonder if you call the admissions office and just say, "Hey, can I can I pay the first semester up front and then pay the second half You know what I mean? Where you can kind of delay a payment or two?

Um but we we talk to people all the time, Valerie, and they're and they're hustling. They're doing dog walking,

they're cleaning houses, they're driving Uber Eats, and they're making thousand to two thousand dollars on side hustles.

So that's what I would be doing, Valerie, every night after I leave my full-time job. Cuz what what what are you making in your job right now? How much you bring home a month?

Uh I make $24 an hour, which is about like after taxes like $750 a week.

Okay. Well, you got to figure out, number one, how you're going to pay rent, but number two, how what you're going to do and the boundaries you're going to make with the boyfriends of that you're not going to be supporting him this whole time because you guys You aren't You aren't married. I understand you guys are in a living situation. You have to pay the rent. But girl, I would figure out, yeah, how how am I going to make this cash? And I would be working nights and weekends to figure it out.

Please don't take a loan out though, please. Let's go to Dan in Charlotte. Hi Dan.

Hi there. How are you guys doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Great. Uh I've got a quick question for you guys. So I'm 24 making around

$80,000 a year thinking about buying a $7,000 toy. Uh so right now I drive a an

older car. It's an old Corolla with a little bit over 100,000 miles on it.

>> Oh yeah, just getting started. Just getting started, Dan.

That's right. That's right. Uh but thinking about adding a second one to the fleet. Um and this would funny enough be a toy that is more expensive than than my current car, but it would cost me about $7,000.

Uh and I'm wondering A if that's a wise decision to spend that much money on a toy at this phase of life. Um and B just kind of like the practicality of owning two cars at 24. And

>> A Miata. Mazda Miata.

That's not a toy, Dan. That's a statement.

THAT'S AN IDENTITY, BROTHER. >> I AGREE, JOHN. I agree. You're taking on That's an identity. >> on an identity. Okay. Oh man. Dan, do

you have any debt? Do you have consumer debt? No, ma'am. No. Do you have savings?

Yeah, I've got uh about 22,000 saved in

a brokerage just in money market mutual funds. >> Oh, good for you. Would you take the 7,000 I would take the 7,000 Take the 7,000 out of that to buy it?

Um and your Corolla, how much is it worth? A million dollars cuz it will never stop running, ever. That's exactly it.

Honestly, you know, I I have some co-workers who say I should I should drive it into the ground, but I think I'd be 44 if I did that.

>> just keep Bro, I've been down that road.

I tried to outlast a Corolla and I gave up cuz >> It will outlast you. >> apocalypse vehicle. It will never stop running. >> outlast >> So, it's what probably if you sold it though, what 5 5,000 7,000? Yeah.

>> four. Yes. Okay, so the things I'm looking for the big check marks of can you just go spend money? Number one, do you have it? Number two, financially are you in a place that that money would be better spent in the present meaning like getting you ahead financially which would be to pay off debt or have an emergency fund. You have those, so check check. And then anything with motors and wheels, we don't want the value of those

to be more than half of your annual income, but you're going to be way under that making 80. Uh so

Yeah, Dan. I think the new identity is Dan in a Miata. >> Oh, Dan in a Miata. Is that the little two-seater convertible? Yes. That's right. Yeah, a little tiny car. >> The noise it makes is in in Yeah. Hey, um Yeah, so we've got we've got work day Dan and then we go weekend Dan.

Um the thing you have to factor in, brother is the weekend car. is uh you have to factor in you'll have two registrations, two tanks of gas, two um

like you'll have to insure this car too.

So, it's not just a matter of a 7,000 and I would get a a dollar amount on what is your monthly expenses. I- I- Interestingly enough, I kept our Corolla. Like my wife bought a Corolla, that was the first car to college. We had it for years and I just kept it in the driveway as a third car for us.

And it was when I did the math on it was costing me about 75 bucks a month just to sit there. And that's when I sold it. >> Mhm. Because between like if I took the registration and the insurance for the year and all that and I divided it by 12, I got about 75 bucks a month and that was a long time ago.

the privilege of keeping the the your identity car parked in the driveway, right? So, if that's worth it to you, cool, but you can afford it. Yeah.

Uh Dan, what are you doing on uh uh April 7th?

Do you know? April 7th? Uh

I don't think I have anything planned. >> Well, maybe you can come to the Ramsey Show Live. Uh Ken Coleman, George Kamel, and I are going to be in Charlotte then. So, if you hold on the line, Christian's going to pick up, we're going to give you two tickets. You can Yeah.

>> come hang out with us in the Miata. And if you come and you bring that Miata, wave your hand in the audience cuz it's a it's a it's a smaller audience on these on these uh shows. >> your other the person who takes the other ticket's going to have to hold their breath in that tiny little Oh, I know. We'll come out and get a picture with it. So, yeah, hopefully, Dan, you can join us uh yeah, in Charlotte for the Ramsey Show Live coming up.

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So, we just mentioned that we are heading to Charlotte for the Ramsey Show Live. It is going on tour, the show is.

And we're also going to be in Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim. So, if you have not come, we went to Chicago back in the

fall and Orlando and did some live

tapings of >> So fun, dude. Unhinged.

>> I know, how was it for you? Because we weren't at the same city. >> were in the raddest place. It was like an old punk rock club. It When I walked to the door, I just started smiling. I was like, this feels like home for me.

But, uh yeah, dude, they it was awesome and we had a a rad debt-free scream. We

had one woman who came up and was like, "I'm getting laid off tomorrow. What do I do?" It was a real heavy emotional moment. Everyone was open, honest. It was It was just a a great time to see fans live and they got to ask questions of us personally. So, it was a blast.

>> Yeah, so we we take the questions that we take on this show, but it's going to be live in a room and it's and they're smaller venues, which is fun. So, we're able to hang out with the audience some, you know, we I don't know, it's just a really enjoyable experience doing the show live with people, but also them participating in it. There was a couple in when we were in Chicago. Cute young couple and they had this like big debate because she spends so much on Amazon and he but they're like debt-free and all of a sudden there was like a big like audience fight.

>> is with you, yes. >> like back and forth and of course George and I kind of disagree cuz George is more on his side of like saving and I'm like, "Girl, you go spend cuz you guys have worked hard and you can you can." >> We had somebody in Orlando that would answer before we did and they were like, "No!" And like they I mean they they didn't drink the Ramsey Kool-Aid. They somehow got the Ramsey cocaine and they were snorting it off the counter. And uh we were disagreeing with it.

We were like, "Hey, we're we're up here." It was It was awesome.

>> fun. So, if you want some tickets, go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching YouTube. Again, Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim. We're heading to you in just a couple of weeks. So, we'll be We'll be on the road soon. >> So fun. All right, let's go to Rapid City and Mike is on the line. Hi, Mike.

Rachel, John, it's so awesome to be talking to you guys. I uh feel like I'm

in such good hands right now. I can't even tell you. Uh John, I have to say something. You um I thought I was the only person that still said rad. No way, dude.

No way. Lol, people.

>> That's rad. Mike Mike Mike Mike, dude, I'm I'm in. I'm in.

And Rachel, I I was watching your dad when you were like I was listening to your dad when you were like 15 years old and to Oh my gosh. >> how far you have come >> Aw. and what you have done with your life and the books, it is just amazing

to me. And to be talking to you right now is such an honor. >> Thank you, Mike. That is so kind.

>> going to get to the point here. My life has been pretty good.

>> I just got to say, he called out what amazing things you've done with your life. And for me, I got I say rad, too.

Good, Mike.

No question. >> kicking me while I'm down, bro. anybody of rad, John. You have you have questions. You ask questions. You show such insight that it's your your instincts are supernatural, my friend.

>> You're the nicest guy ever. You're the nicest guy. Thank you, Mike. Just the encouragement we needed. How can you guys deserve it. You you're the A-team, honestly. I love you guys. And you know, when when Dave decides to quit working, which you know, that'll never happen, this this organization is in great hands with you all and I'm I'm really happy for that. >> homie. >> So kind. Okay, how can we help, Mike?

How can we help you? You've helped us.

So my my wife and I have been married about 15 years and a couple years into the marriage, I you know, I I found out that she had racked up like $9,000 in secret debt behind my back. And you

know, back in those days, we were pretty broke. I mean, we were making we had we had baby twin girls and we we were making under $40,000 a year and and I mean it almost broke our marriage early on and I I buckled down and then

and about two two years or so I got it paid off but ever since then we have had our finances separated and my goal for

my conversation with you guys today is is to is to to join our finances again

because it's the right thing to do and and the goal the goal is is to

really focus on our girls college savings fund. I've got all of the steps done except for number five and number seven. And and I really want to focus on number five right now and and that's kind of like how I want to bring her in on this.

Yeah, is she is she my can I >> worried that she's not going to want to.

Okay. So why would she not want to have you guys talked about this?

No, I'm I'm I'm scared honestly. I mean it's been it's been peace since then, right? Like Yeah, but it's been it was an arms agreement. It's not it's not real peace.

Right? It's like you'll have a treaty signed but you're all are still staring at each other from the opposite sides of the table.

Right?

You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, I mean I see that. I mean I feel that. I feel some resentment because she's you know I I feel like she's a spender and I'm a saver and Well, hold on that that's my big question is you have a lived experience where she we call it financial infidelity. She cheated on you with her money, right?

Behind your back. >> Yeah. And that was 13 years ago. And so my

question for you is is your fear

that she's going to drain the accounts

and do stuff behind your back. Is that is that a real ongoing fear or is that >> It is cuz I mean when she sees cuz she'll spend her her account down to nothing, you know, on a monthly basis and when she sees, you know, 35, 40,000 dollars in a checking account I'm afraid what she's going to do with it. >> Okay, I want that's the real issue.

The real issue is not the combining of the checking accounts which we I I wholeheartedly with all my being endorse. The real issue is you want to save for your daughter's college.

And you feel you have you have an obligation in the middle of your chest to help your daughters out and you watch your wife burn the thing down and what you're trying to do is back door that conversation with let's just join our money. And the real conversation is you have a picture about what you want your daughter's life to be when they walk out your door at 18 and your wife has a different picture and y'all got to align those.

Who? What do I say? What are the magic words?

How do I approach this? I mean I I

It's going to be very defensive.

The the the the most effective path I've seen, can I give it to you real quick?

Let's hear it. Here's what's going on.

Here's the story that I am making up about what's going on.

Here's how I feel about that story.

Here's what I would love to happen next.

And when >> very very very chill. It doesn't sound

like that would start a fight. >> No, because cuz what most people do in your situation, myself included, right?

I have to really fight this is to sit down and say, you spend all your money and I'm trying to save for the kids college. We have to do a better job of filling the blank, filling the blank, filling the blank. And when you start conversations with you don't and you never and I'm doing all of this, then what you do is you walk up and you throw a grenade at somebody and they're either going to throw a grenade right back at you or they're going to run. They're going to fight or flee.

When you come down and say, "Hey, I've made up a story about you." And the story I've made up and that's you owning what's going on inside your spirit. I've made up a story about you that you don't care about the kids going to college, that you'd rather have a bunch of shiny toys or objects or whatever she's buying. And that makes me feel alone in this marriage and that makes me feel scared to death for what our daughters are going to do.

I would love it if we could get on the same page and create a plan together so that our daughters have their college taken care of or 50% whatever you all agree on.

You know, John, as I'm talking to you about this, I'm realizing that it's really not the money because I have the money. I make I make 200 grand a year plus and I I can I can float this. I can I can do it on my own, but I you know, my my

place in my marriage with my wife right now is better than ever has been and I

just feel like this is a missing link that it's just not right. It doesn't sit with me and I want I want us to be a unit and I want to trust her. And I think all of that, Mike, like what you just said >> Say that to her. >> Say that to her because the truth is and you're feeling this is when there's a part of your marriage that you're not engaged in and you guys are living in two separate lives and you just sweep it under the rug cuz it's just easier.

The actual intimacy is built when you when you lift up the rug and you deal with the stuff you've been sweeping under for 13 years. You guys actually are going to have a better marriage on the other end.

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Up next is Victoria in Philadelphia. Hi,

Victoria. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Um, so my question is I'm

in Baby Steps 2, and I wanted to know is

it okay for me to spend beyond just the

four walls of necessities to spend quality time or make memories

with a family member who is terminally ill. Oh gosh, I'm so sorry.

Um Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, there's not a right or wrong, I would say, in the moral code of life of how to do your money. There's a plan at which will get you out of debt faster and a plan that won't, but you get to make the decision within that plan of um you know, how intense you want to be.

Um is there a I always I I always hate to ask this, >> who's the person? What's going on?

Uh so it's it's my mom. She is in her

mid-70s and she has dementia. She's in

about the middle stages. So, you know, I can't definitively say that she won't be able to go have lunch with me or go get her nails done and her hair, but I can say that the window for us to

be able to do that is getting smaller.

Yeah. And I do want to spend time with her and she enjoys doing those things and she enjoys going shopping, but I don't feel comfortable with her paying for it, either. Sure.

Does she enjoy

those things specifically or does she enjoy being with her daughter?

She enjoys being with me. She does. But so she's also lost her her driving um

privileges a couple of months ago.

And so I know getting out of the house and doing things, which typically involve spending money,

are important to her and make her feel more like quote normal.

>> Sure. Well, and that's what I was wondering is that there's a difference between we're going to get a cup of coffee and we're going to spend a couple hours together like doing whatever. Uh I'm going to send you a bunch of questions for Human Dex just as my gift to you. Like, we're going to just get to know each other again and we're going to talk and we're going to tell old stories, look at photo albums, whatever. Are there things you can do that are less expensive?

Cuz I'm 100% with you. I would spend every moment I got with my mom.

Every moment that I could. I get that.

Um but you can take her to do a bunch of really fancy expensive things

and or you can spend quality time with her. And I I I guess what I'm trying to say is you don't have to do either or.

No No time with mom. I'm on this baby step two journey. I'm trying to get out of debt. And or I need to we got to go

get our nails done, buy a new dress every week, we got to go out to fancy dinners, we got to do expensive stuff.

Is there ways y'all can spend amazing quality and rich time together um that doesn't require spending a whole bunch of money. And that just takes some creativity on your part.

Yeah, and I I do think we I try to find the balance now, but I am feeling sort

of morally Again, I guess I shouldn't use morally, but I'm feeling conflicted between my wanting to dedicate myself wholeheartedly to baby step two, but also wanting to do things with my mom that I

know she won't be able to do in the future.

Mhm. Is that Can I ask you a real hard question?

Sure. Is that your pain or is that hers?

It's mine. She's not really aware of

all of the ramifications. Okay.

So, the reason I'm asking is

if it's inside your chest, I want you to spend some time grieving it. Because it's less about I think what you're grieving, and tell me if I'm wrong, what you're grieving is not that we only have three or four times we can go get her nail our nails done together.

It's that in 10 years I won't be able to do this her anymore. In 4 years I won't be able to do this anymore.

Right? So, the grief is >> right, though. >> The grief is less on the the thing and more on oh, this this relationship that I've had with this woman for seven for for your whole life is coming to an end. It's going to become a new relationship.

Yes, it probably is that. Okay.

What I want you to do is don't try to bury that in expenses and don't try to bury that in shiny things. I want you to experience that as the grief that it is.

That's heartbreaking and that's sad.

Right? Okay. I can try. Well, in in it

here here's the the the magic is grief demands a witness. You have to have a couple of people that are not your mom that you can share how heartbreaking this is.

You have to have a couple of friends that you can talk to about this. I would love for you to write your mom a letter and read it to her.

I have something I want to tell you. You did a great job.

You've been an amazing mom to me.

And I want I I would rather instead of I don't I want to try to cram as many nail sessions in. And by the way, those are important. Take your mom and get her nails done. That's amazing.

I want there to be nothing left unsaid.

Do you get what I mean there? >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a a power in that, Victoria.

I hear you. Yeah.

And can I just tell you on behalf of everybody that's struggling with parents with dementia, I hate it. It's evil.

It's the worst.

I hate it with all my guts and I hate that you're going through this.

Thank you. Yeah. Your your mom won the lottery with you.

It's awesome to hear somebody that cares about their mom. Yeah.

No, but it's a good point, John, on And it's all that like when we talk about our money, there's always the root issue, whether we're talking about a marriage issue or whatever it may be.

But even a grief grief of the grief of losing a parent

and what you're walking through. And the immediate knee-jerk reaction is cuz I get it as she was talking. I was like, "Yeah, I want these experiences with her." And so that means we have to go do these things. You know what I mean? The action towards it.

Um but getting to the root of the motivation of what what's even going on under that. >> Yeah, actually I'm grieving is Yeah. I'm about to lose my mom. >> Yes. And she's still going to be alive.

And yes. And that's painful pain.

>> So hard. So hard.

All right, let's go to uh Ethan in Los

Angeles. Hey Ethan, welcome to the show.

Hey, how's it going? Doing great. How can we help? Hey, um located uh a little bit far away from Los Angeles, but that's the closest city. But um All good. All good.

>> yeah, I um My question is I um I bought

a house um almost about 2 years ago and

um you know, I know it needed some work to it and I uh I uh you know, I'm looking to have kids this year, but there's so much work that needs to be done to it. I might have to push that out to next year or if I really prioritize this year, I can get it done. But I also want to start investing again. Um I had to take it out to buy this house.

I'm I think I'm on baby step four.

my monthly income should be towards the

house and what should be towards investing or should I focus on fixing the house so I could have kids cuz Why can't you Why can't you have kids in the house you're in now? Is there danger?

>> Yeah, yeah, there's a I mean, when we got it, there was mold, foundation cracks, framing issues, and we fixed the framing issues and a lot of the mold, um but there's still mold upstairs. There's leaks in the house. Um I'm trying to fix those. I just finished the chimney, which was like four different things.

That took me like 4 months to do, so.

>> Okay. Well, what I would probably do, Ethan, is Baby Step 4 is investing 15% of your income into retirement. So, I probably would jump start that. I mean, I would I would get that going, and then any money you have left over, then you guys can cash flow some of these renovations.

And remember, too, a baby takes 9 months, you know? So, maybe uh you guys start the journey and you'll you'll have you'll have a a runway, if you will, uh

before the baby actually gets here, too.

So, I always um yeah, I always hate people putting off things like getting married or having kids or something when it comes to something financial. And I know this is obviously the home, and you want it to be safe that they are going to be living in. So, I totally totally understand that. But I wouldn't kick the can down the road so long.

Like, I would I would I would get on it. So, I would just do the minimum of what you guys need.

pregnancy to continue to do repairs and

cash flow the the savings.

Okay. All right, I understand. All right, well, I appreciate it. Thank you.

>> Absolutely, Ethan. And uh yeah, good luck on the on the next journey. But you guys, yeah, when you can start investing as early as possible. When you get to that Baby Step 4, I would do that 15%. I mean, it's

kind of a non-negotiable for me. And then anything above that be saving for things you want to do, whether it's replace a car, vacation, fix a house.

But that's beyond the 15% going into retirement.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr.

John Delony and we are answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

All right, let's go to Sam in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Sam.

Hi, how's it going? >> Hi, we're doing great. How are you?

I'm all right. Um, can't complain. Just another day out here. Um, I guess I was uh glad listening to your guys' show and I figured I'd call in today. So. Well, glad you called in. What's up, brother?

I know what's I got So, I got a house um that's a little bit out of my price range that I bought probably about 4 years ago now. Um, and it's a rental property and I have two of my apartments that are vacant that need to be rehabbed. Um, I completely gutted them down to studs.

So, I guess my question is um, if I should apply for a HELOC. I'm almost out

of baby step two. I have about $8,000 in credit card debt left.

Um, but I I'm starting to get to the point where I can't really afford the home.

Um Is it a duplex? Is it one Is it one building and two units or is it two separate? >> uh it's a three fam- It's a three-family home. >> Okay. Um I currently live in one of them and then I rent the one I live in out

during the summertime and then I move on to a boat that I have not been able to sell for the last, I don't know how many years, four years now. Can Can I call something out?

Since you called us, you seem to always be onto the next scheme.

And like I'm going to buy a boat and then I'm going to buy a uh uh uh three-family home.

>> lived on a Yeah, I lived on a boat uh prior to buying the house and then >> No, I I got it. I got it. But like you always have a good idea, a next good idea, and it feels like all these good ideas are starting to close in around you cuz you gutted a house that you can't finish, you have a house that you can't afford, you got a boat you can't sell, and now you want to take out a leverage against the house that you can't afford yet.

And I guess at some point what I want to tell you is like at some point you got to pay the piper.

And I would suggest trying to deal in that reality and not trying to float this thing with yet another idea, another

thing off of Instagram or something and get another loan and leverage the whole property against that loan, by the way.

And like what would make you think you could pay that HELOC off?

Um I was kind of hoping to get them both both the other two remodeled. Um the rental property during the summer probably brings in about eight grand a month.

Eight grand a month for just the one unit? >> On one unit? Yeah. Yeah, uh I

where where the house is at is Wonderful. Okay. Okay, how long >> travel area. And both other units are

are gutted, you said, correct? Yeah, yeah, they were in I'm sorry, the house is super old when I bought it. Okay, so how how much money would it take to

to fix both of those up, each one individually?

I could probably I do all the work myself, so I could probably do them for both under 50,000, I think. So, what if

this summer you didn't get on your boat and live there for a year, and you spent the summer working your butt off getting these things finished?

Um yeah, yeah, well, then I need somewhere to live. Uh then I would lose the summer rental. No, I mean, you rent out the one room or the one unit, and you work on the other ones.

Uh there no, so there's three units in there. The one that >> in one and the other two are gutted. Is the is the boat near you?

Yeah, it's uh about a mile from my house. >> Okay, perfect. Go live on the boat, rent out the unit for eight grand a month, use that to help cash flow these renovations, and I would just cash flow them one at a time, Sam. So, no, we're not going to tell you to take out a HELOC. Now, the other the other um option would be to look at everything in full with two vacant, gutted units,

yours, and how much would the whole thing sell for, and do you want to get out of this deal? There could be a an exit here because I I mean, I don't know if you enjoy >> Yeah. living next to renters that you renting from you in these other units.

You know what I mean? The whole the whole thing. So, I just wonder if you if you could get out with some equity still, even though they're still gutted, but have another investor come in and buy it, and then you go buy something small that you can afford, and you don't have to worry about all the rental stuff.

Okay. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at, cuz the house has a lot of equity in it, so I just >> What what How much Yeah, how much you owe on it?

I owe 450 right now. >> And how much would it go for?

Uh the the three families that probably about the same shape as mine all of the inside of it looks like but from the outside they're about the same. I think they sold for 1.8. Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah, but is that completely redone with all new appliances and all new I I never checked and saw I never looked at that listing. I don't know if the old lady that when she passed away if the kids redid it and then sold it or if it was redone when she was alive. >> I would get a realtor. I never I would go to ramseysolutions.com and get a realtor in your area, a real estate pro, and I would get real numbers on what they think they could flip it for.

>> Mhm. Yep. And I would take any cash that I got had extra and count my lucky stars and not do this again. Yeah, because even if even if you had to drop the price 400,000, that's 1.4 million.

You know what I mean?

>> 66% of it is gutted down to the studs,

uh, imagine you're going to get 30% of 1.8 million or 40% of 1.8 million,

right? And so even then you win.

>> You get out of this mess. >> Yeah, yeah, I know I'm not negative in the house. I'm just curious though.

I guess what you guys' opinion would be.

>> so it would be it would be option A or B for me. It's A, I'm going to just slowly redo each unit because you love

the life you're in, you like having the renters, you like the income, you whatever and you're going to pay it off eventually cuz it's I mean it's a great it's $450,000, right? So you would just put it in baby step six and and you and you keep it. Uh, but you just do the renovation slowly with cash. Or option B

is I'm just going to eject out of this whole thing and holy crap, make a make a lot of money probably. Go buy something with cash.

Say I'm You know what I mean? For real. Go buy something with cash and then just enjoy your life.

Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at here cuz I don't have much for investing. I just I'm I'm more at the like I said I'm on baby stuff too. I'm I've got about 8,000 left on credit card debt and then I was going to move on but For sure. That's why I wasn't sure if I should take on more debt just to >> Please don't.

Yeah. You've worked too hard to get here, man. You've worked too hard. >> Yeah, yeah, the no the no debt piece is a is a non-starter for us.

So no, no HELOC.

If that's if that's true with a with a million dollars.

Um yeah, and that and that's always hard you guys. The the whole investment property side of life that people

look for and or fall into thinking that

it's going to be easy passive income

continues to come back to to to show that it it's stressful, you guys.

>> Well, and I've also noticed this.

Um on my daughter Josephine, she's 10.

She's all into home renovation shows.

She loves watching them. And I noticed the other day the demo side,

they always show everyone having fun.

They play the cool music and they got sledgehammers and they're taking all the stuff out.

They don't spend a lot of time when the house is down to the studs cuz they show these pros come in and wire it all up and then they show them at the fixture store. It's just like a boom. It's a nightmare when you're looking at a house full of studs and you have to level it and fix it. It's not fun and that's when the Instagram like, oh, this is so fun.

>> Tell me romantic so fun. It die. Yeah.

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Up next is Chris in Louisville. Hi Chris, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Yeah, um so I was just wondering, I have some I have a little bit of debt and I'm recently wanting to move closer to a girlfriend and I don't know how to kind of navigate

that. Okay, how much debt do you have?

Uh about 38,000. Okay. And how much do you make?

Uh 2,200 a month.

Yikes.

What are you doing for work?

I work in a factory. Okay. And is there >> my net. My take home. Okay.

Um And do you have a job where the girlfriend is?

Uh no, but there are a lot of opportunities there.

Okay. How long have you guys been dating?

Uh a couple months.

How far How far is she from you?

Uh about 2 hours. Okay.

Um And how much will all Have you Have you added up all the moving expenses and the

difference of the housing you're paying now for rent versus where you would live? I mean, have you done all that math?

I've I've looked at it a little bit, but I haven't done an in-depth analysis.

Okay. So I mean, for now my goal would be to get out of debt as quickly as possible. So I don't know if living where you're living, working where you're working now gives you that opportunity or where she is. Is there a better job that you can make more money?

And it's a plus plus on your side of the

financial spectrum. Um I mean, I would ask those questions, but I don't know a a move um Gosh, switching jobs, everything for

a couple month relationship just feels fast. >> Here's the thing. I, back when I was dating a quarter century ago, I'm a guy

who falls hard, okay?

All right. >> And I would get what I would call love dumb or love blind or love stupid, whatever you want to say.

And I only have a job because people make really feel really big, firm plans with their relationships and they don't work out.

And so, as you're talking, what I'm going to is what happens when you go down there, all these {quote} {unquote} great opportunities don't materialize.

Y'all break up 2 months later and this $40,000 of debt has followed you plus whatever loan you think you're going to take out to get the move even there, get a deposit on your place, get a apartment, all that kind of stuff.

And so, I would I wouldn't move. If you were my friend or my son or my brother, I wouldn't tell you I would tell you don't move unless you have a job lined up that you start on this date. Yes. And you have a place to live that you already know you can afford and you've already done some of the math on the back of a napkin, not even a napkin, on a spreadsheet that says, "Here's how much taxes are going to be, here's what my take home pay is going to be, and here's my plan to continue to get out of debt as I'm going." And I know that makes me uh fun ruiner cuz you're like, "Dude, I finally met somebody." I totally get that sentiment and feeling.

Um but man, it can get you in a lot of trouble and turn a $38,000 mess into a $50,000

mess and a broken heart and in a strange town um all at the same time. And so, I would be much more concrete in what are my plans, what am I going to do, not just I'm in love, I'm in love, I'm in love, I'm in love.

Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep, absolutely. So, yeah, if there's a job and you got everything and you're like, "Hey, this is this is an upside for me plus I get to live close to the girlfriend." Then yeah, then that's great. You can make You can move while you're in baby step, too. If you cash flow it, it's just going to pause that process for a little bit. But, don't let the yeah, the love

cloud some good judgement and actually have a plan in place. >> And I like the idea of you getting another job and making way more money than you're making. >> 100%. >> for a new job in that community and go go line it up. >> And regardless, be working nights and weekends with a side hustle and get the $38,000 paid off. >> Yes. All right, let's go to Corey in Nashville. Hi Corey.

Hello, good afternoon. Hello, thanks for calling. How can we help?

Uh yes, I was calling on regards to a

collection that we have on our credit, my wife and I. Uh dealing with a a landlord from 3 years ago.

Um I've been contacting this collection agency trying to settle with them and they're I I think I'm settling for too much, but beggars can't be choosers.

Um we we need to settle this get this off of our credit so that we can move in to another rental home.

Um but the collection agency is not

willing to send me an offer letter and I just Why?

I feel very hesitant. Yes, yes, yes.

>> Don't send them a dime until you have something in writing. Why why are they not Why are they Why are they not doing it?

They Their reasoning was that if they send an offer letter, they're they're saying that other people have used that to get into other rental and I just don't see that adding up, you know.

I've never heard that. It might That doesn't mean it's not true, but I've never heard that.

Tell them that you can't make a payment until you have something in writing.

Yeah, what are you What do you owe them?

How much do you owe?

So originally the the debt was just just shy of or just a little over 5,000 and now over the course of 3 years with interest it bumped up to 57. They were willing to settle at four and I I kind of just need it off of my credit so I can move into another home. Corey, do you guys have the cash?

>> Yeah.

We do. Okay.

And you've already offered them four, is that right?

Yeah, well, I started off a lot lower and then Okay. And they wouldn't budge, okay. >> I've been working on this for a couple Yeah, for a couple of months and I think that they know that we I need it off of my Yeah, but >> my credit as well to be able to move into another home. Yeah, but let me say you're in the driver's seat, too. You're all both You're It's a game of chicken cuz they need Did they have already made come to terms with they're not going to get this money back?

And so, the fact that you're offering them four grand is a huge olive branch for them, too.

Mhm. I would hang up and call somebody back and hang up and call somebody back and say, "I've received a settlement offer for four grand. I'm prepared to write the check, but just need an email.

I need something in writing that confirms this is the final offer.

And I will I will get you paid." >> they And if they don't, just don't send them a dime, huh? Say, I can't I Just tell them, "I can't send you a dime until I have confirmation in writing." >> Because they lie, Corey. >> Yeah, they lie. That's what they did.

>> These collectors Yeah, they'll take your money and be like, "We didn't get a payment. What are you talking about? We didn't say to settle.

It's gone to 8,000 cuz we sold it to like Yeah, I You just can't Don't get Here's the two rules of thumb.

Have to get an offer in writing and never give them electronic access to your checking account.

Cuz they're going to want to withdraw it immediately and say, "No, no, no, I will I will I'll get you paid another way."

Okay.

And I think they're I think they're playing games with you. Yeah, I know. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just a game It's a game, Corey, and at this point, it's been 3 years. Cuz who who owns the debt right now? Which What What collections agency?

Genesis. Okay. So, look them up online

and you're going to see this like made website I mean, they're they're they're It's someone in a cubicle, Corey, who got this debt put on their desk that they're having to collect, and then in 2 months if it's not paid, there's a there's another collections agency that's going to buy bad debt from this collections agency, and it just hops around. Like, it's just it's it's a crummy crummy industry, and the turnover, the person you're talking to is probably not even going to be in that job in 60 days. So, like, you're not dealing with intelligent life over there, okay?

So, you to play hardball, that's fine. They don't scare you. They shouldn't scare you. They should be scared cuz they need money.

So, >> Right. And you've just got $4,000 to give them. >> got it. So, you're like, I have it.

You have to send me And if they say no, be like, all right, no deal. Hang up. Call again. Call again, just like John said, and it's such a pain in the butt, but it's the way to do it.

We've heard horror stories of people not doing this and sending these types of companies money, and then they change the deal on you. And so, >> Tell them, "Please, please let me pay you this money. I have it. Please let you give me my money.

Uh I just need it in writing." Yep.

That's it. But you know, I would not send them a dime. And and then you guys just need to have some patience because your urgency to get it off your credit to go and buy a home or to go to another rental property, but don't let that urgency make you know, cause you to make a big mistake. Be patient. Be thinking through this and get it in writing.

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All right, let's go to Colin in Orlando.

Hi, Colin. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, um I'm 22, and a year and a half ago I was given around $40,000 in a lump sum. Since then, I've made some pretty bad decisions when it came to changing car to car, and I also had a roommate to sue, and now I'm only left with about $11,000 invested up into stocks.

Um my main question is because now I have a truck payment that's around $1,200 a month. >> Good. Oh, mighty, dude.

$76,000.

I'm upside down $16,000.

>> truck. Yes. Ridiculous. Okay.

And I don't make enough money to pay it, and I'm being kicked out of my house, so I'm about to be moving and paying rent at a new place, and I'm worried this truck payment is going to crush me. I'll be able to afford my bills, but only being able to save like anywhere from 5 to 800 dollars a month, and I'm just wondering what's the smartest way to fix this.

Why are you being kicked out?

Um you know, I got out of the military a little early after little mental health

went through some traumatic events, and it's just been hard for my family, and you know, I was going to school, and I moved out a few times, and I'm not in school anymore. So, it's just been a conflict with my parents, so I'm having to relocate from Florida to Texas. Oh, wow. Gosh, I'm sorry, Colin. How old are you? 22. Wow. Are you Are you um

Are Are you interested in getting the help that you need?

Uh absolutely. Okay. All right. All right. Will you Will you make it Forget the money for a second. Forget the truck for a second. Will you make that a top commitment? When you get to Texas?

>> Yes. Yes, sir. Absolutely. And I I That's the reason I reached out is because a lot of the car I flipped I believe it was three different cars into the truck I'm in now in a span of a year due to mental health uh effects, and that's no excuse, and I've gotten on top of that through the VA, and I'm on medication, and I'm just ready to fix this because I I I can't do this.

Yeah, that's a lot, Colin. Can you metabolize and I'm saying this with a smile on my face, okay? So, if you were here, you'd you'd hear what I'm saying. You'd see what I'm saying, okay?

a what I would call a $40,000 stupid

tax?

Yep. Okay. So, if Would we draw that up

again? No. Would we run it back differently? Yep. But, we can't do either of those things, and so the reality is here we are.

Yeah. I would sell that stuff Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong. I would sell that stock, and I'd go take out a $5,000 loan from a credit union. I would sell that truck, or maybe a $7,000 loan from a credit union. I would take that stock, put a 11 grand towards it, get this truck sold, pay the difference, and then buy a $2,000 1988 Corolla with 400,000 mi on it

that's still driving, and that would be my car for a season while I got well and got my feet back under me. Yep, that's exactly what I would do, which would be about a $7,000 loan and a crappy car versus a nice truck

that's is worth $76,000 and I'm underwater cuz I've been rolling negative equity into other cars into this thing. So, it's a much more peaceful place to be, and then you just got to work your way out of that seven grand, and I would make an aggressive goal, Colin, I would say, "Hey, every month I'm going to put 1,500 bucks, I'm going to put 1,000 bucks, and in 5 to 7 months I'm going to be completely debt-free." And getting some traction like that, Colin, I think it's going to be really good for you. It sounds like there's been a lot of setbacks, and you've made decisions with money that weren't great, right?

The $40,000 that's gone, the the truck, the I mean, all of it. And so, to have some really good wins, I think that's going to feel really good for you. I think you need a little bit of confidence.

Um and so, I think to get you on a new path, get those kind of wheels turning in the more positive direction is going to be big. But these are some big things we're asking you to do. I mean, you're selling a nice truck, you're going to be driving a crappy car, you got to go to your own credit union, you know, talk to the talk to the the president there and just say, "Hey, here's the deal. What can I do?" I mean, yeah, there's some work involved in doing it, but I think your situation's going to feel so much different in 30 to 40 days.

Here's what I want your number one goal to be, okay?

I want to reestablish trust again with Colin.

Colin's a guy that does the next right thing. He takes his meds, even when he feels good, he takes them.

He goes out for a run in the morning.

He gets out of bed and goes to his first job, and then he comes home and he has a sandwich that he makes.

He didn't go out to eat, and then he goes to a second job.

And he went to the bank and put on his nicest clothes that he pressed, and he shook hands, and he is going to get this thing paid off and in 40 days, you're going to start feeling a little bit taller. In 6 months, when you're done with all this debt, you're going to be standing 8 ft tall because you'll have you'll begin to reestablish Colin as a man that I trust. I trust myself. And then I can begin to head out into the world and do the great things that you're called to do.

Yeah. That's That's honestly probably what I'm going to do. Thank you. And I just needed to hear the reassurance because I thought about doing it already, but my family, you know, obviously has their own opinions, and I've already switched vehicles so much, it's hard for them to look at me and it's hard for them to just go sell another vehicle and buy a new one.

Which is fair to them because the pattern that was Yeah, that was set was different.

That's it. Great job, Colin. We're cheering you on, man. >> we believe in you, brother. For sure.

All right, let's go to Logan in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Logan.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. How you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help? Good. I have a little bit of a relationship question. My wife and I are in baby step two.

We got a $1,000 saved up, and we're working on paying off $75,000 of consumer debt.

Um my wife wants to help contribute

income-wise. She's a stay-at-home mom with her two little And um she was thinking of things that she could do while while also being home with the little. And she wants to start like a like a embroidery type business, like selling stuff on Etsy and stuff online. Yeah. Um

but she needs a little bit of money to kind of get everything started like some like the sewing machine and stuff. I don't really know the details but what I do my opinion was let's focus on paying

off the debt and then we could start something new before we add something in all of this.

I just kind of started the Yeah, has she ever done it before?

Um no. Okay. Not really. Yeah, I'm I'm

>> I'm probably more on your on your side. If she's done it before and she's really good at it and she has a track record or a history of it and you're like hey we got to put a couple hundred bucks into a used machine but she can make two to three grand a month and it's pretty guaranteed then I'd say all day. All day do that. But if she's never done it before what scares me is you get into this and and I love her I love her gumption though.

The fact that she's like hey I can do something but she's going to there's a good chance you get into this cuz she's never done it before and she's you know you guys have two or three kids and she's doing that. She she does really well for the first month or two and then it starts getting behind and then the motivation kind of goes away and the reality sets in because there's not been a pattern established yet in her doing this type of business. So yeah.

Mhm. And they make great money doing that and it goes into the rhythm of their life and it doesn't cost a lot of capital outlay. You don't have to go buy cuz she's not going to want to buy a used machine issue. She's going to go buy a real nice one and all the equipment and all the threads and all the stuff.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah and because she's never done it before. That's my thing. If she's had a history of this and she already had an Etsy shop a few years you know what I mean if she's done it then I'd be like that's one thing.

But starting something just completely new that has that kind of investment right now, the longevity is what I worry about if it's >> the craft is one thing. You have to photograph it just right. You have to upload it. You have to ship it.

You have to like it's it's a lot more than just I can make doilies or I can make bandannas or whatever she wants to do. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, so if you guys could find something that's way cheaper and you guys come to like a couple hundred bucks and she wants to try it, you know, I would probably be okay with that.

I just wouldn't buy anything new and I would I would have it with a very open hand, but I would I wouldn't spend probably I mean I don't know how much these machines cost. I'm just throwing out there, but from the from the math of it all, I probably wouldn't spend more than 500 bucks on something new.

>> Yes. Yes. during all of it. So, I don't know if that's helpful Logan, but I still appreciate her idea. I would just find something that that she could do to contribute that doesn't cost that doesn't cost that much, right? That much of an initial investment.

Buying or selling your home is a really big deal and with all the clickbait headlines that are out there and there's so much conflicting data, it's hard to know what is really happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

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All right, let's head to Karen in St.

Louis. Hi, Karen. Welcome to the show.

Hi. I always apologize for my name.

Oh, goodness gracious. That is a that's I have an aunt Karen. That's >> is John I have an aunt Karen. My name is John after a toilet. You're fine.

>> That's a tough name to have these days, Karen. We do not judge. We do not see you as stereotypical Karen. We are

We are >> We are happy you called in. How can we help?

So, I am a recently divorced 58-year-old

nurse working full-time. I make about $90,000 a year.

>> Okay. I have just finished baby step two. Woohoo! >> Yeah, good for you.

And I'm now working on uh my fully funded emergency fund. Okay.

I have about $230,000 in my retirement and I'm currently a renter.

And my question is, should a mortgage or a house even be in my consideration for

the future cuz it's my income's not going to really change in the next much in the next 10 years. Or should I just dump everything I can into my investments for retirement? So, I just

I'll let Rachel handle answer the the house question. I just put your current numbers in the Ramsey investment calculator, okay?

I put your age at 58.

And since you're a nurse, now you might say, "No." But I put I put 70, okay?

That you would work till 70 and that you currently have 230 grand in investments.

And I put that you would contribute a thousand bucks a month.

If you contributed a thousand dollars a month, >> it. Yeah. you would have 1 million

36,000 dollars when you turn 70.

Mhm.

Okay. >> Does that make you breathe a little easier?

Totally. Totally.

And And the caveat in my

financial future is my parents who are in their mid-80s, my inheritance will pay fully for a

home.

Okay.

Or it would >> Should I It would go into your retirement. >> my retirement. Yeah. Right. So, I'm just trying to figure out what the best direction is to even consider a home or just retirement. Yeah, so I would consider a home because that housing line item in your budget is going to be the most expensive and it will continue to go up, rent will. Right.

>> having a home is going to be Yeah, it's going to be important, but your home, Karen, it may just be like a condo, right? It doesn't I mean >> Yeah, I'm fine with that. I'm totally fine with that. >> Yes. Okay, how Do you Have you looked at all prices in your area and what that would be, like a one-bedroom somewhere?

Um they run probably about 200 to 250.

>> Okay, perfect. So, what I would do is I

would fund 15% into retirement regardless and that probably comes out to that thousand bucks a month-ish. Um so, I would I would stay

consistent with that, Karen, and then I would make my only goal to be to save up, yeah, for a down payment and get into something. And then you your next goal would be to pay it off. And then when your inheritance comes, whenever that is, that's just the bonus money on top, right, to help pay off the house and fund retirement. Or maybe your parents live, I don't know, another 15 years and they're in their late 90s and you've, you know, maybe already taken a big chunk of the house and then you get this inheritance and most of it goes into retirement at that point.

But those would be my goals. It'd be 15% into retirement and then I would save for a down payment and get into something.

>> Um because we want it paid off. I want that I the goal would be to have that paid off, that property, when you go into retirement at 70, which I think which you easily can do. People that do the baby steps millionaires plan, they're paying off their homes in seven-ish years on average. So, I think you can I with a $90,000 salary, if you live really tightly, I think that there is a yeah, there's a good chance you can have this paid off in seven, eight years and I think that's very doable for you for a $200,000 mortgage.

Sure. How much how much inheritance, if

you had to guess a number, what do you think that number's going to be?

350. Okay.

So, if it was you were going to say >> open conversations with my parents, by the >> awesome. So, if you were going to tell me it actually confirms what I want to just caution you about, okay? If you were going to say 3.5 million or 35 million, not worried about it.

But if they're saying I'm going to give you $350,000, do you have siblings, too?

Yeah, but they'll get that amount also.

>> Okay. So, let's say your parents are projecting to have a million dollars when they pass away and they're going to give you 350, your brother 350, and your sister 350.

Right. >> Um this is where I'm going to get dark for 2 seconds and I'm doing this for a reason, okay?

Okay. >> of them has a 6-month stay in ICU

because they have uh congestive heart failure that goes into something that goes into something, Mhm. >> burn through some of that cash in a wild way.

I agree. Yes, and that's why I know it's not a guarantee. Okay, so what Yeah, my caution is create a life for yourself that if this money never comes through, you're all good.

Right. And if it does, >> was >> amazing, right?

Right. I didn't I didn't want to depend on it, but it the little caveat.

>> Yes. >> And I just kind of wanted to throw it out there, but I wanted to make the right decisions for my finances, not Perfect. >> not depending on that. >> You You are in rare air. Most people,

honestly, before I started working on this show, would have been me, too, would have sa- seen, "Oh, I can afford a $250,000 house, plus I'm going to get this 350. I'm going to buy a $600,000 house." No. And then it'll just get paid off later. And later might be, "Hey, your inheritance is a 100 grand because we had to spend it on this and this and retirement care and a and a in a facility and whatever." And so, yes, you are so wise, so wise.

Okay, so that's good to know cuz I my

my thinking was going, "Just dump everything in a retirement and don't worry about a house." But you've kind of Yeah, I know. I would I would have something long term, yep, that you own and that no one can take from you. It's paid off and there's no rent you're having to chase as it continues to go up year after year. So, yeah, owning something is big.

And you know, John did some of that math on the investment calculator, but I think that that is a place that you You've done such a great job, Karen.

And what's wild is that doubles every 7

years when you actually look at the math. So, that would be 400, you know,

and um yeah, after I I did the math, it was after 14 years it's going to be like 932,000 if you don't touch it.

And that's if you don't put another penny in it. And that yeah, and that's if you yeah, don't put another penny in. So, there you're So, it's going to yeah,

you're doing really great on that end.

So, I don't want you to feel this urgency of I mean, we still want to contribute because we want you to have a great retirement that you can go and live your dreams. But, it's not like you don't have anything right now. We get a lot of people that call up and they literally are starting Yeah, they have nothing and they're 58 years old. So, um so, you're I want to just assure you you're doing a great job on that end.

I would still fund it some after you get that 3 to 6 months of expenses, but Right. Right. >> be Yep, I would be looking for something. And if you can put 20% down, Karen, like if you're able to to take your expenses and figure out a way to rent for a few more years and have a 20% down payment, like that's awesome.

Or if you want to get into something Yep, or if you want to get into something at five, if you find a great deal and it's a good location and everything you want and it makes sense.

So, that's kind of our Ramsey formula for it. And I think you're going to be able to do that with 90,000. And the great thing about nursing, too, is if there's a season, maybe a year or so that you want to do some extra overtime, like Knock that house out.

>> Yes, you're able to really do that, Karen. So, um I know you I think you said newly newly single or newly divorced. So, um you're starting a new chapter in your life, Karen. We're really proud of you. Thanks for the call.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruze with Dr. John Delony and we are taking your calls about life and money. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

All right, let's go to Atlanta and we have Dan on the line. Hi Dan.

Rachel, hey. Thanks for having me. How are you? >> Absolutely. We're doing great. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for asking.

Awesome. How can we help today?

So, I am coming at you guys as a

concerned brother {slash} son. So, I'm

the oldest of three brothers. We're all in our 30s.

My specifically my youngest brother, who

just turned 30, he has never financially

been independent from my parents.

And so, you know, being the baby that might have something to do with it, but just ever since he's been in college and have graduated and is now married, my

parents have always financially provided

for him even, you know, in adult life, marriage, into his 30s, etc. Um

about 3 years ago, my dad sold his

company that he worked really, really hard to build. Built it over about 25 years. Sold it, made some good money, and naturally, since that happened, asks for money or

for financial help from my brothers, specifically my youngest, have have drastically increased.

Um I have expressed my concerns to my

parents that they are getting taken advantage of.

They have heard those, don't necessarily acknowledge those. My dad is a an incredibly generous person and uh would call himself a Dave Ramsey disciple, but um he uh doesn't really, I don't think, see the fact that he's getting taken advantage of. For a little more context, my wife and his brother um are pregnant and they are expecting this year. And I just choose to believe

that they wouldn't necessarily be planning to expand their family unless they had a financial backer in the form of my parents. And so I just see it coming from a mile away and my parents

So what can I do for you? See it that way? I don't know. I want my parents to understand that what's really happening.

Um and I don't >> here's the thing.

I don't think you're mad at your brother.

Um Cuz you Not necessarily, no. I I No, I wouldn't say mad. How how well the problem here is not your brother.

Ye- yes, if he was on the call, I would tell him to grow up and be an adult.

>> It's your parents. It's your parents, dude. And the the part that you have to like like, man, I overuse this word, I think, but you have to metabolize is you told your dad what you think and he through his actions said, "I don't care.

I'm a grown man and this is my money and I get to do what I want with it." And >> true. I mean, they do get to do what with their money as they please, which I completely respect. I just >> Why why do you think they're getting taken advantage of? They sound like they're sound mind, they're smart people, they're generous people. Why do you think they're getting ripped off?

Um I just I don't I mean, look, the the help that he's providing is not like setting my parents back or anything necessarily, but um I I think that

he might struggle a little bit with the idea of like, well, do I take, you know, my kids off the payroll or do I tell them to go figure it out?

>> Why >> why are you Why are you inventing stories that might be in his head?

And then trying to judge him for those stories.

I don't I don't want to say I'm judging.

I just So, here's where I'm at. I am very protective of what my parents have built my family. >> Dan, that you've worked hard, you're supporting yourself, so is your brother, your middle brother, and then your younger brother's kind of mooching off your parents, and you're annoyed by it.

That That frustrates you. It's annoying to you. You don't like it, right?

That is fair. That is absolutely fair.

>> and you're mad at your dad.

>> Yes, like it's your parents' decision.

And you can't change your brother. >> and they're obviously smart people.

They're choosing to do this, and so that may hurt you. That That That may be frustrating, golly, that he gets this handout, and me and my wife aren't getting anything. Mom Dad Mom Dad aren't reaching out to us, and you know, it's not It doesn't feel fair. Whatever the feelings are, I think those are all your feelings, but you're not going to be able to to change what they're doing.

It's You know what I mean? In a way, it's It's a None of your business. I mean, kind of, right?

then shoot Yes, A, it's frustrating.

It's maddening, dude. And we're both on your side here. Yeah.

>> For sure. The But to continue to dwell on it, to create I think he's doing it cuz of this, and I can't believe he's probably It's a choice for you to be miserable in your own skin.

And so >> So, what? Go ahead. I I literally and I and I don't say this lightly, I would let it go.

Cuz you've put You've made your position known. Your little brother is not of character to that he wants to build up his own home on his own. He wants to keep asking for Dad for money, and your dad is of the opinion that he can do whatever he want with his money, include fund his youngest son's life.

And so, I've made my position known.

I'm going to choose to not let that misery poison my household, me and my wife's relationship, our kids' lives, we're going to choose joy and happiness in our life, which means I'm out. I'm out of y'all's fights, I'm out of your money drama, I'm out of all that stuff.

And I'm going to make peace with the life I have chosen to create for me and my spouse. Mhm. Cuz any other choice is a choice to be miserable, cuz you can't control any of the other stuff you want to control.

So, I don't think I'd say I'm miserable.

I think frustrated is definitely definitely the accurate word. And >> calling us to talk about it though, Dan.

Well, so here's to John, to your point, like yes, I have

made my my thoughts known and I've expressed these to my parents and I've made the decision, like I'm not going to bring it up again, right? So, I'm not I'm not necessarily like pushing the envelope or trying to continually like rehash it, but it is it is frustrating.

So, my dad was a guy who taught me to just work for everything that I have and to grind it out and to hustle and that's how I sort of like molded my life. I know, but you're you're you're setting yourself up in a in a in a lifeguard tower looking down on your brother and your dad.

And you're asking why aren't y'all up here with me?

And what I want to tell you is just climb off the lifeguard tower and get on with your life.

Right? Cuz even then you you you you loop back to I've done these things, my dad taught me this stuff, I built my life this way and my son ha- I mean, my brother hasn't. And it's like, you're right and all you're left with is your frustration, but nothing's going to change. You get what I'm saying?

I do. I do. And I I don't disagree. I mean, there's nothing I can do to So, how can we help Dan?

What do you need from us? Well, I still I just still go back to the fact that my and and look, maybe there isn't an answer. Maybe I just have to let it, you know, let things take their course, but um my parents are essentially right now the giving tree and at At point they're there's they're going to get picked and picked and picked and maybe they got a figured it out.

But they're so Your advice is to just let let that happen. >> Let it happen. You can't do anything different. Give me an alternative.

Here's the big Are you going to go file a competency claim against your parents and take over like right? So what are you going to You can't do anything. >> Dan, can I tell you after thousands of dollars of therapy through my life, coming to the realization that you can't change people. And I used to really believe in my head, if I say this sentence in this conversation with this person this way, they're going to get it.

Like the light bulb's going to They're going to see it. If I Oh, I have a great way to present it and they're they're going to get it. >> Yes.

You can say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

they may not change. So at Christmas, when you all go out to dinner, you get a separate tab for you and your wife and say, "I'm not going to take dad's money." That's what you can control.

Nothing else at that table.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey Show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar Budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living at normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. If private student loan

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Our uh today's question comes from Rachel in Louisiana. >> Hey, Rachel. This is probably going to be a doozy. >> I can't wait.

My husband and I are on are on baby step three. We currently have $15,000 saved and our monthly expenses average around six grand. Our monthly take-home pay is 10,000. I recently got a promotion that will come with new responsibilities and workloads to balance. I would like to hire a house cleaner to free up more time for us as a family.

My husband feels like it will cost too much and that we'll neglect our parental responsibilities.

What? At what point in the baby steps can we reasonably afford to hire a house cleaner?

Um Oh, man. I got all kinds of feelings about this.

Neglect our parental part That's funny.

Responsibilities. I'm like, uh-uh. Yeah.

I I I I think what what it sounds like to me, Rachel from Louisiana, is that your husband is volunteering to take on the

new um cleaning house cleaning um cuz he

believes it's too expensive. Fair. So, um, but you've taken on this new job with new responsibilities and workloads, and since he doesn't want to hire some support and help, then he, sounds like he's, uh, volunteering to do it. >> it all. That's awesome. What a great husband. >> husband, so selfless.

>> Yeah. So so selfless.

>> so nice. So nice of him.

>> W- What Rachel, what what would your math answer be? I mean, not even math.

What would >> I know. Well, I was going to say, I mean, a 3-month emergency funds basically would be 18,000. They have $15,000 saved. I would get to 18,000 and I'd hire a house cleaner. Yeah.

>> Once a month, every other week, I don't know. So, find someone come in and yeah.

I mean, put that part of your budget, make that part of your lifestyle. And if it And if it doesn't work, if you really can't afford it because that's going to take away from other things, then that's definitely a opportunity cost conversation you guys have to have. Like, okay, right now we just can't do that. That's fine if it doesn't work, but if you can make the math work and it gives you some sanity, I'm all about delegating things that you can delegate.

Yeah. When you especially when you're past baby step three. And I have to say, I I was against that, like, the thought of hiring somebody to mow my lawn. W- I didn't realize how deep that w- went.

>> Yes, that's how Winston was, too.

>> Yes. And who is my son going to think I am, right? >> Yes. >> And uh, I was I was wrong on that. And so, I chose other responsibilities to take me out of my house and so, I've I've I I actually

see this opposite. It I was hiding with

the on the mower. Mhm. From p- per- from what this guy is saying, parental responsibilities. I would mow for hours and hours and hours, and I was avoiding being with my kids and present with my wife, and so I made a choice, I'm going to outsource this so that I can do this stuff right.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> And we happen to be in a season where we could afford to do that, right? >> Yeah.

I love it. >> But man, um You know, Arthur Brooks talks about that. There's five things you can do with money, and four will bring happiness, one will not. The one that will not, spoiler alert, is just buy stuff.

Giving does, savings does, uh buying

experiences with people you love. And the other thing was using money to buy back your time. >> time. And actually using your time, not like scrolling Instagram, but actually using it in a meaningful way.

So, that's actually a way to find a level of joy with your money is to buy back time. >> And I want to call this out. Rachel, you and I have taught this from stage for years now at our Money & Marriage Retreat. If one of you in your marriage, if y'all are both workers and both working outside the home, and one of you gets a promotion, and it's a new responsibilities, new workloads, I want to challenge you both to consider that you now have a new marriage.

Cuz your old marriage was built on this routine, this dollar amount, this time, this space, and now things are different.

And so, let's go treat this for what it is is the marriage we had doesn't exist anymore. Now, we got a new one with new dynamics, new jobs, new responsibilities, and let's re co-create

this thing. Let's reimagine who's doing what, what needs to get done, how do we want this house to feel when we get home every day, and let's build that from the floor up. That can be a fun, like really

adventurous, exciting, joy-filled time,

an intimate time together. How do we want this place to feel? Not, "Well, we used to. It's going to be you used to you never anymore." Man, that's a way to just burn the whole thing down all the way to ash. >> Create a new a new marriage. I love it.

All right, let's go to Lindsey in San Diego. Hey Lindsey, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks guys. Um so, I've always been

the most frugal person my whole life and always invested and even though no matter how much I have, I can still hard for me like I every penny I'm still like looking at what I'm spending even though I don't have to. But um I basically I have so much and uh I only spend it on like vacations, travel and

um So, I was wondering like if I want to go on a trip like with girlfriends, I should I I think if I can cover them or um But then everyone's like nobody knows I have much money cuz I don't use it or anything. How much is How much How much is this?

Um over 14 million.

14 million?

14, yeah. Didn't see that coming. Well done, Lindsey. You want me and John to come on a trip You can I'll go anywhere with you, Lindsey. I'll go on a vacation with you, Lindsey. What do you do for a job? What do you How did you How did you accumulate that much?

Um I've always invested in everything and a shop and net funds like >> Yeah, what do you do for a living? What was your income? I mean that I'm sorry.

What What Yeah, what just what do you do for a living? >> matter what it is, but um now I just trade options with my money.

So, it I make a lot. I make too much.

But and um So, my whole life like ever since I was 20 I've always been investing. >> Okay, how old are you? I'm investing.

54. Okay. Are you married?

Not anymore. Okay, not Okay, yeah yeah yeah. Kids?

Uh they're they're adults, yeah. >> They're adults, okay. Okay, so your question is you want to go on a girls' trip and pay for your friends.

So, they don't usually like have money, you know, they don't they probably have money problems. Nobody you know knows.

So, I don't know if it's awkward and weird and that they kind of don't want that and if it makes things, you know, weird and stuff like that.

>> Totally. Absolutely.

Um if your knee-jerk reaction, knowing your friends well, how do you think they would react if you're like, "Hey, I have a bucket list trip I want to take and I want my people with me and I kind of just want to treat everyone. Would that make it weird for your friends? You know your friends well enough. Is that Is that awkward for them? Would they be offended? Would they be excited? How do you think they would respond?

Um I don't know. One might, you know, one might be like, "Oh, that's okay." You know, they just might feel awkward.

But I think in general I'm sure they would like it. But it's just weird because like I mean they have no idea, you know?

>> And they don't have to know 14. They don't have to know all that. >> Here Here's Here's the Here's the path Here's the thing I want you to think through. Would you rather when you're 75

sitting on a rocking chair in front of your house, would you rather have had a bunch of memories with your friends going to do some wild and crazy stuff or would you like to have an account on

your computer that has big numbers in it?

I would >> mean, that's what I'm saying. If I Yeah, I That's why I do would want to. But like you said, I don't know if it's just awkward things Here's Here's Here's how I get past awkward with my friends. My life has changed. Here's how I get past it with mine. You can take this or leave it, okay? I will tell my friends, "Hey, I want to go do this thing and I had a crazy month last month. I got you." Mhm. And that's it. Yeah. Um Lindsey, so

I saw this on Instagram. Sarah Blakely >> ought to be Yeah. Sarah Blakely, who who's the founder of Spanx, >> Uh-huh. okay? Bill I think she's a bill I think she's a bill I think she sold it for over a billion. Like so she's she's doing great.

Uh her every birthday, every birthday, she I'm sure she has a jet or or rents one, I don't know. But she takes 12 of her best friends, most of them are childhood friends, every year and she doesn't tell them where they're going. She's just like, "Pack warm clothes, pack for cold, bring a passport, don't bring a passport." She just gives them some clues and they all board this jet and she just takes them somewhere every year. >> Yeah.

I was like, "Oh my gosh, Lindsay, I think you should do that." >> Yes. Go have fun and go on as many adventures as you can. >> Like, oh my gosh, go enjoy life, Lindsay. Go enjoy life.

>> your friends.

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All right, let's to Porter in Midland, Texas. Hi Porter, welcome to the show.

What's going on? How are y'all? Hey, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um so, I just at the beginning of the year got a raise. Um not for a huge amount, but just enough to make a difference. Uh and I recently this week just got a

email saying that the raise amount was

uh incorrectly like input it into our like payroll program.

And so, there's actually there was an error and they it's not supposed to be as high as it currently is. And so, they're asking me to um just sign a document saying, "Hey, I approve that decrease and um moving

forward, this is what the rate will be." Yeah. Um Oh, you got you got to pay it back?

I do not. >> Okay. Oh, that's nice. This exact thing happened to me and I actually had to pay it back. It was on it was on a commission I had to pay it back and I was going to say, most companies yeah. I hated it, but it was what it was, right? Pay you, yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay. And that's kind of where most of my I guess question was stemming towards cuz this is the first time this has happened to me, so I didn't know on the email that like it was our payroll person, a higher-up, and then a boss from another branch and my

my boss was not included in the email.

And so, I didn't know I would go right to Have you talked to your supervisor?

I have not and that's kind of where I was like it was such a minor amount, I didn't know if it was worth splitting hairs over or if I should just kind of accept it for what it is. Yeah, how much is it compared to your like what are we talking?

It's just 50 cents an hour less. So, it's not like I said, it's not a lot, but >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um Yeah, I probably yeah.

Yeah, it stinks and I I I always would run this stuff by my supervisor just to make sure there's not in the rounds happening. You don't know what meetings they have all been in that you weren't a part of and For sure. I would always keep my over-communication great.

>> my keep my supervisor in the loop, but I this I don't know, this happened to me and it was a good faith whoopsie, right? It was a good faith, didn't mean for this to happen, and it cost me money every check for several checks to for me to catch up, and it stinks, and it was what it was. And then um I I asked for some confirmation this won't happen again. I got it, and we're same team, so it's all good.

Yes, sir. That makes sense.

Cool. Yep, awesome. Thanks for the question, Porter. Let's go to Alyssa in Toronto. Hi, Alyssa, welcome to the show.

Hi, guys. Thanks. Um so, I'm about to get about 280,000 Canadian, 200,000 US

in inheritance cuz my mom passed away unexpectedly, and so um I'm sorry, Alyssa.

Thank you. Um and I'm just trying to figure out like what to do first.

Yeah. So. Okay. Um what's your financial

situation? Do you have Do you have consumer debt?

I do. So, we have about 90,000 in

vehicle debt, um about 45,000 in taxes

from when my husband worked for himself.

>> $45,000 in back taxes?

Yes. Um and then about $15,000 in credit card

debt. Okay.

Well, the show >> And the caveat to this is we're about to move to Florida from here at the end of August. Okay. Okay.

Um Can I say what I would do? I would What What What's up with the Well, yeah, I was going to say that's the car situation. What's up with the cars?

>> I I would have Like obviously, the first thing you do before you even take a breath is you pay the taxes off and get settled up with the government, right?

And that brings you down to 165, and

I I This is me, okay? Take this for what it is. This isn't like Ramsey gospel.

This is just John. I would have a hard time taking inheritance money from my mom who'd passed away and putting that on depreciating assets like a car.

That's just me.

I would want to sell $90,000 worth of vehicles and be a a good like

if if I if my I would imagine my mom's sitting across the table from me and saying, "Hey, how can I best be a steward of this money?" I can imagine my mom saying, "Well, I'd like to you buy a house or I want to make sure the kids have college." Or like not get the fanciest car you can buy that will be worth 25% less this time next year. Does that make sense? And that's just me, but that's how I would think about it. I would sell those cars and put some money away so you can cash flow your trip to Florida or your your move to Florida.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz I think that the short answer Alyssa is to get out of debt. Use this to get out of debt. That's a beautiful thing for your mom's legacy, but to John's point what what you're paying off kind of sucks.

$90,000 of cars that you can't afford. And Alyssa, you guys aren't great with money. Can I just say that out loud? It's true.

I know that. 100% trust me. >> Okay. So here's my like a clean slate.

I know, but here's my fear. Here's my fear, Alyssa. Is that this money goes and wipes out this debt and nothing has changed in y'all? And then you'll take a loan out to move to Florida.

>> a habits perspective, a behavior perspective, nothing has changed. You have felt zero sacrifice. You have had to do zero hard work in this. You've felt nothing.

It's kind of just a boom boom done.

money is going to pay off this debt and you guys are going to get right back to where you are. So I like John's plan not only cuz it's cars and I hate car debt so much cuz I think it's so stupid.

Not only that, but I think you guys need to have a sacrificial decision within this blessing somewhere. So you can feel something emotionally that's going to help stir and push on the good habits that you guys need to create.

So, I'm curious We You a little bit of time. So I am curious about these cars. $90,000 worth of cars. What what um and there are two cars I'm assuming. What do you owe on each?

Um so, mine is a '21 Wrangler and we owe

about $42,000.

And then my husband's is a '22 Gladiator. So, all both Jeep. Um and we owe about 50 on that one. Okay. Um how much you guys make a year?

Um anywhere from 150 to 300,000. He's

got a base plus commission. >> gosh, y'all have too much car, Alyssa.

Too much car.

Way too much for what you guys make. So,

you guys got >> I'm definitely upside down on my car though. >> Oh, both of you are cuz they're both Jeep products. Yeah, y'all are way upside down. So, yeah. I mean, I I would look to see hey, what what could we sell them for?

And or maybe pick one and do the other.

But you guys you you you owe you own too much car for what you make.

Okay? Because it's going to it's adding up to close to a hundred grand in cars and you guys are at 150.

So, we always say it should be no more than half of your annual income.

So, you're looking at 75 and you guys are over that. So, um

something yeah, something's got to change with the car situation. Do you agree or are you like, "Eh, I don't think we're going to do that." Honestly, like the Jeeps are are at this point part of like our our personality.

And like 90% of our friends um that

actually live in the US are we've met them from the Jeeps like going off-roading and like my Jeep is set up to to go off-roading. >> tell me your Did you tell me they're part of your personality?

Yeah, that's what I just said. Good god almighty. I get A- listen. >> Alyssa! Listen, I've got friends who love Jeeps and they go do all the stuff.

But to say it's like it's become part of our core.

I just Sell it and go get a $10,000 Jeep Wrangler. Yes.

Make that your personality.

Or get a get a Jeep tattoo. Make that your personality.

Did you really say that $100,000?

>> can help, Alyssa. I don't know if we can help. I think we'd be friends, but I don't know if I can help.

across the US. So, I I get it. I feel it. Listen, we're both friends with with George Kamel. His Tesla is part of his identity, and that's the problem.

That's the problem, right?

>> Yeah, Alyssa, I just want I want this

money that you received after something horrific. I know we're joking about it, but for real, to be to be something to

>> to be something of a good of a good legacy. And you guys are you make bad decisions with money and bad decisions with identity. So, like I don't know what I don't know what to do.

I I would I would sell the If I woke up in your shoes, Alyssa, I would use 200,000. I'd pay taxes. I'd pay the credit card debt. I would sell the cars.

I would re-up what's going inside of me and my consumption of life and cars. And I would change my personality. >> Um you know, and I would um cash flow the move to Florida. But if you I I don't think you're going to.

But you know what? We could we could still be friends. If I see you in Florida, I'd still give you a high five, you know? in the Gladiator.

>> And give you a little rubber duck.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

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Our scripture of the day comes from Romans 12:2. Do not be conformed to this

world, but be transformed by by the renewing of your minds that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Rob Siltanen, I think that's how you say it, said people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

All right, let's go to K in Dallas,

Texas. Hi K, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you Rachel and Dr. John. Um, I have a question. I have a senior in high school. Um, he has received an offer to play

college sport.

And uh we as his parents think it's a good deal. It would be kind of staying local in our area. But in his mind, um,

he thinks that, you know, going off and playing like for club sport with the same sport would be better. However, that would incur student loan debt. And

um, we've been pretty frank with him like, "If you take this offer, then we could get what you owe pretty much down to a manageable amount without student loan. But, you know, your other route, you're going to have to work and do your laundry and all this other stuff." So, just wondering am I missing anything? Am I, you know, what else is there to help him navigate this choice? The The two It sounds like you're asking two different questions. And so, I think the

first question would be you and your husband taking your son out. What What's

the sport?

Lacrosse. Okay. And saying

it's been our joy, one of our life's big joys, traveling around with you and watching you play lacrosse over the years. And if you're done playing lacrosse competitively, let us know that.

Cuz I've met with countless college students who felt like they Their parents looked at all the years of travel sports and lessons as an investment in college.

And they were playing college sports, which is a full-time committed job. It's a life, right? And they were doing it to keep mom and dad happy.

And it always cratered. And so, if you take him out and say, "If you're done, we will support you and love you, but but if you are going to play, here's an opportunity for you to do this, and college is expensive." And then the second thing So, that's the first one is why doesn't my son want to play sports at this level for the college, etc. Have that conversation, but lead it with we're ready to put a period at the end of this sentence if you are.

And the second question is has to come with you and your husband making some really firm decisions on what you will and won't pay for. And then you lead with that.

Yeah, I don't like I I feel uncomfortable, Kay, supporting the idea of making him go to college because he has a full ride on a sport that he doesn't want to play. I was just talking to someone, and that all they said A ton of research has come out now with college athletes, the amount of depression, things like I mean, it's it's it doesn't look good.

Um and especially if he's not wanting it. Um, so my red flag kind of went up

when he's like, "Mom and Dad, I don't want to do this full-time. I I'm going to club sports grade or like, you know, like intramurals or whatever at some other college. Like that sounds more fun to me." I get that. Now let's figure out how we can make that work financially.

So that means you're probably going to stay in state. You're going to take in state tuition.

Uh, there's a good chance you're going to have to work, maybe get some other scholarships. Like we're going to have to figure out a way to cash flow another

situation cuz it's not this I it's not as black and white as you have to go to the school close to us and get a full ride or you're going to take out all this debt. No, people go through college all the time. >> other ways, yeah. >> Yes, so many ways that he can go to school still debt free, Kay. So. And Kay, I've never said this publicly. I'm about to say this for the first time, Kay. >> Oh my gosh, what what what an honor this

is. >> Well, I just I just want to paint you a picture. I had a 100% full ride

that I walked away from in August

to go to another school for a very small partial scholarship.

And that happened to be the place where I met my wife, met all my lifelong friends, got connected with mentors and friends, and that's the reason I'm sitting here right now.

Wow. >> And so I want to tell you his life isn't over. Mhm. I had a 100% everything.

And I walked away at the very last minute because I wanted to go and do something else.

And quite honestly, to Rachel's point, I was completely cooked on the idea of this being the next for It's already been 4 years of my life. It's going to be the next 4 years of my life, and I just my heart wasn't in it.

Right. And so I think having that big conversation Here's another piece. Do you Do you and your husband secretly want him to go to school kind of buy y'all cuz you like being around him?

I Well, I just think that the coaches are like great mentors, they're But but pretend he's not playing sports. Let's say sports are off the table. Do you kind of want him to go to I I want I am stunning myself that as my son is is heading into the college years, I kind of hope he picks a school next to us.

Cuz I like him. Um they are I mean I do like him. Um but no.

Most days I like him. You know, we're kind of ready, you know, picking up socks and you know, >> Sure. Sure. Sure.

seeing him come in and out and it's hi and bye, but you know, I mean I I'm okay with that idea of him going off. >> Okay, so so be honest about those conversations, but it framing this as putting all of the weight on the to this 18-year-old kid, that's when 18-year-olds make bad decisions and they can walk into a room and someone's going to hand them 120 grand and say make good choices.

Here's the dollar amount we can contribute per month, which means this is what the tuition needs to be." And >> Mhm. if you choose to go to this school out of state, we will love you and we can't wait for you to come home, but our money won't go there.

And then he gets to make grown-up choices for as that they unbelievably allow 18-year-olds to make.

I know. Right?

The logical side is just hard. Do you Do you all have a debt journey?

Sir? Do you all have a debt journey where you all paid off some money?

Yes. And have you all Were you all burdened by student loans, too?

Yes. I I mean, I've paid mine off, but unfortunately my husband still has them.

They're well into our Can I Can I tell you that leading with that level of vulnerability, these things are still hanging around our family?

Yes. >> And maybe it's the reason we haven't gone on big vacations. It's the reason there's been tension in our house. There's a reason your mom and I or your dad and I have fought over the years cuz these stupid things are still here.

Please, we're asking you don't go do this. Yes. Right? So, it's leading with vulnerability instead of preaching at him. Oh, yes. And it's probably a lot of both, but we have kind of backed off the past few weeks just to let him, you know, navigate his own choices, but I just want to make sure we weren't I mean, you did make a good point. >> Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

>> And if he comes back and says, "I want to commit the next 4 years of my life to lacrosse." Amazing. Awesome. And I promise you if somebody's offering him a full ride, they will not be the only ones.

Right. >> Guaranteed. Okay. Okay.

And so, let's find that let's find a place that's going to fit for him if he doesn't happen to want to go to that school right next to you, and we can figure all that out, but like we want it to be their choice, but that choice has to be made inside of boundary of boundary framework cuz this open season for 18-year-olds just to decide where they want to move across the country and quote-unquote live their life. That's so much pressure on an 18-year-old.

>> Yep. And some states are even with even community college, you can go for free.

So, there's just and I don't know what Texas what they're doing, but Um, but but they have tons of programs there. >> Yeah, but so yeah, so he can I think he's going to have a lot of options, Kay, and I don't want you guys to box yourselves in to either he has to get the full ride here or he's going to take on debt. That's not true.

starts off in community college for a year or two uh, and then moves schools

to to something else. Um, whatever it looks like, but yeah, the um,

man, that is a that is a tale that is happening all over America right now. >> yeah. Um, is these kids that get into

deep travel sports early, dedicate their whole half of elementary, middle, high school to something, and then they get and they are burned out. >> Mhm. And they're like, "I don't want to do it." And then they feel the pressure cuz I've heard them say >> Well, mom and dad are like, I put I put 40 grand towards this thing.

>> Yes. Yes. And we did this for the call, you know what I mean? And it gets there. And so trapping them there, that's just that is so hard. And I get the obviously the financial advantage of having a full ride, totally. But also um

yeah, just just their ability to to not just enjoy life for the heck of it at 18, but to have actually a healthy life throughout college not having to hate every day. That's a gift, too. So, thanks, Kay, for the call. I appreciate it. Uh great show, John. Always fun. Thanks to all those in the booth for making the show happen. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 138. Small Steps Lead to Big Change | September 29, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:01 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. and we're taking your calls at88255225.

[Music] Mandy is going to kick us off in Maine.

What's going on, Mandy?

>> Hi. Um, great to speak to you guys. How are you both today? >> Oh, sorry. I said Mandy. It's Mindy. My eyes have failed me today already.

>> That's okay. Um, so my question is, my

husband and I are actually scheduled to be in baby step seven um starting uh off

the new year. Yay. >> Cool. >> I know. I'm excited. Um, but I have a

chronic condition and and actually it's a condition that I ended up in the hospital for about a month and in a coma for like 3 weeks in June of 2022.

And since then, I've really um started to live life a little bit differently.

I've traveled more. Um, and but I do

know that my heart condition is not I'm

probably not going to live to a full life through retirement.

>> Um, which I'm okay with. I I I do well every day and I feel blessed by it. But

my question is, where is the best place

to park our money um as we th go through

baby step seven so that we can get to it

and enjoy it more than um if we were to

push it off to retirement?

>> That's that's a very good question.

>> I can't believe you're so levelheaded and clear-headed. I would be a wreck.

How long have you known about this condition? Obviously, it's been at least a few years. >> I was actually born with it. My parents were told that if I made it to the age of three and lived through a surgery, I'd be lucky. Wow. And thanks to technology, I'm here. >> How old are you now? >> Miracle.

>> I am 47 and um I actually have built my

life around this. I I'm a a nurse and um

I used what I was given as a positive.

>> Wow, that's beautiful. Well, you've you've made it to 47 and you were only supposed to live till three, so I would be very optimistic. Clearly you are uh you're you're living your best life as far as you can live it with the condition you have and I'm really inspired by that. What is the current life expectancy at this point? Have they told you anything or is just like hey you probably won't make it to 65 or 70.

>> It's pretty much um hey you probably won't make it to 65 or 70. Um the

generation before me really didn't make it. I am in that new generation of people that didn't make it. So there's not a lot of research.

>> Yeah. You are like the research at this point. >> Correct. >> I mean that's a miracle. What I mean so

you guys have done really well.

Obviously you're going to be hitting baby step seven. What's your net worth going to be when that takes place?

>> Um so we actually are I realized yesterday that uh through our our our

retirement we are already baby step millionaires. >> Excellent. How much of that is the house and how much of that is in retirement savings?

>> So, um, actually the house is probably

worth 400. We'll have that done by January. >> And our retirement currently is just

over um a million.

>> Nice. So, about 600.

>> Um, yeah, it was between the two of us, we have like 1.2.

>> Wow. >> Oh, wow. That's just in retirement.

>> Yes. Oh my goodness. >> Do you have anything in brokerage accounts or any kind of bridge funds right now?

>> Um, we have savings, but I don't know

nothing in brokerage that I'm aware of.

I don't even know if I know what a brokerage. >> Okay, that's just a non-retirement investment account. And so that would be the solution to accessing funds before you hit, you know, 59 and a half. And so you can, you know, and you can take money out of retirement, just the contributions if it's like, you know, a Roth IRA for example, without penalty.

But I would rather see that money grow. You've already earmarked it for retirement. So I would just set aside, you know, whatever that that I guess call it your a bucket list fund, whatever you guys want to name it, your dream fund, and start putting money in this non-retirement investment account and just let that money grow. and you can park that in a mutual fund or index fund inside of one of those non-retirement accounts and just start parking money there and you'll, you know, at least have it grow with the rate of the market versus a savings account.

>> Okay, that makes sense.

>> We do. We have one that was a very blessed event as well.

>> Wow. Wow. Okay. So, there is I'm asking

because there is uh posterity there. So, I'm thinking about obviously the retirement money is there for you, but the hope is that you'll live off of the nest egg. You know, you will never touch the nest egg, just living off the interest when that time comes. But, uh, George did make a good point about the Roth IRA.

So, that's that's something that could be there if you were getting down to the wire. I mean, I'm trying to think of a situation where it's like, we must take this trip to Italy, you know, and it's like I can't >> Yeah.

Um, I mean, I haven't attached dollars to it, but I do I still currently work full-time. I would love to go, you know, part-time um in the next few years and then travel a little bit more.

>> Yeah. What does your husband make?

Um, my husband makes so um,

honestly he he's getting a pension and

working so I don't know exactly but um,

I was doing ours every dollar and it it we're making good money on a a monthly basis. >> Okay. Give us a ballpark number just so I can help help me understand kind of what we're working with. Is this 10 grand a month? 20 grand a month?

>> Yeah, probably 10 grand a month.

>> Good. >> Okay. I'm just trying to figure out if you just stop working today, could you guys get by now that you don't have a mortgage payment come January?

>> Yeah, I think we could, but I I definitely am not quite ready for that.

I just um >> You enjoy working?

>> I I love my work. I I work in a >> I didn't know if that was holding you back from the these other things that you're wanting to do. >> Because the other thing is, let's say you do live to 65. Mhm.

>> Well, we you don't want to just go, "Well, we accomplished the bucket list in two years and now we're just sitting around." So, I like the idea of you working as long as you enjoy it and that your health allows you to.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I if anything, I would go part-time just so I could travel more. But, um I really do enjoy what I do. >> Awesome. Well, I'll tell you this, your investments, you know, based on what the market has done historically, it'll double about every seven years. So, your 1.2 will become 2.4 four, by the time you are 54 years old.

>> And then at 61, you're looking at, you know, close to $5 million. And that's if you didn't add anything to it. >> Mhm. >> So, I want to encourage you that your retirement, you guys have done so well.

Uh probably even before you had this, you know, you kind of knew what life was going to look like. You guys have just been doing a really good job following the Ramsay plan.

>> We've been trying. We definitely um you know after my event in in 2022 our our

our gazelle intensity went down and we

traveled a little bit more but >> understandably. Yeah. What is your mortgage payment? What are you going to free up in January?

>> Um we will free up um just under 2,000

but we also are putting um you know at least 5,000 or more a month away right now >> towards it. >> You know I really think you know a brokerage is a great idea. It's a great bridge between now and retirement, but it sounds like your husband makes a good income. It sounds like you're contributing, too. And when the time comes to take these trips, it feels like you could really cash flow a lot of it.

As long as you planned it a little bit in advance to say, "Hey, over the summer, here's what we want to do." And if you give yourself, you know, 8 months to save up for it, that sort of thing, it feels like a lot of this is at your disposal monthtomonth as well.

>> Yeah, I like that idea. I mean, you could do some in the brokerage. I would just up the budget line items and go fund money for Mindy, dream fund, travel fund, all of those things. I would up it. And that's the beauty of baby step 7 is you get to choose how you build wealth, how you give. And I would encourage you to do all three. Save, spend, and give with the time you have on this earth. Mindy, we hope it's a long one.

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Well guys, the allnew Every Dollar is here and it's a game changer and we just launched a very exciting and well done premiere on our YouTube channel. So you can see the app in action. Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw, myself, we were all involved in the making of what feels like an Apple keynote, but can actually change your life. Instead of like, we have Bit Emojis now, ours is like, "Hey, what if you got out of debt for good facts?" >> So, way better.

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It's already it's gone gang busters. I mean, over 100,000 views in the first day it's been up there and the comments have been wonderful. So, thank you all for checking it out, using it, and changing your life. We love to see it.

>> My favorite line is when you say the margin in the proverbial couch cushions of your life.

>> It is.

>> You got to know what's under those couch cushions. I When you find something under a couch cushion, it is like a magic trick. >> Yeah. It's always like an a fond memory.

Maybe a goldfish that you forgot about.

Not a real life one like the crackers.

>> In our household, I find like rappers, like granola bar wrappers, cuz the kids >> fruit snacks wrappers. >> I thought you were hiding the candy from Sam under the couch so he can't find it.

It's not in the pantry. Sam, don't look there. >> Children, it's in the couch cushions. The proverbial ones. >> The proverbial cushions. All right. Lauren is in Ohio up next. How can we help today, Lauren?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Yeah. How can we help? Um my question my question is about fair pay. Um my coworker and I I'm a senior graphic designer. He is a regular graphic designer which is a step below me. He makes 80,000 and I make 68,000.

>> And I'm wondering how can I discuss this with my manager without throwing her under the bus? >> How'd you find out?

um through discussion >> with him or with some water cooler break talk and they're like what are you what are you making like I'm making 80 and they're like like oh gosh do they know how much you make.

>> Yeah. Just conversation with my coworker. >> Okay. >> Which I know is normally not supposed to happen. >> Well, it's all the rage among the youth is the new salary transparency. We should all be talking all the time about how much we make and like fight and like unionize, you know. So, I get it. Right.

That's exactly what she told me. >> Have you mentioned it?

Have you mentioned it at all to your leader?

>> No, I have not. >> Okay. So, you're just looking for strategy on how to bring it up.

>> And I understand you want to be, you know, cautious and tactful and not be like, well, so and so told me that they make this. >> You know, I think you need to bring it up in a way that's like, hey, like I found this information out and I'm just curious how you guys look at valuing these positions because I've been in this position this long. I'm at this role. What does a growth plan look like?

um you know, is there a reason why I'm I'm behind on that? Or is it just, hey, the market has changed and they're needing to pay more to get new talent?

Like my my guess is that it's not malicious. >> And my hope is that they do the right thing and go, >> yeah, no, we're going to we'll give you a bump. Maybe it's not today. Maybe it's, hey, at your annual review, we're going to relook at this and give you what's fair.

>> And if they if they don't if they treat this callously, I think that's also a sign >> that you need to go elsewhere. If you feel like you deserve more with the role and experience you have, you know, I wouldn't hold on to the grudge and resentment and stay where you are.

>> Okay? >> But there's no it's going to be uncomfortable. I would call that out. Uh and we have a guide on uncomfortable conversations on our Entree leadership side for business owners that I think would also help you.

You know, you're not on the leadership side, you're on the other side, but just opening and say, "Hey, >> I need to have an uncomfortable conversation." And I would leave as much emotion as you can out of it, which is hard. So I would like do your venting privately and then walk in there with a lot of logic >> and not a lot. >> Curiosity.

truth is you've got to as much curiosity

as you can have and as much as uh it's

just I I don't know because the truth is maybe your coworker uh said no on

another benefit to get a bigger to get more money in their pocket. Like there's different ways that people could have negotiated their salary and benefits are a part of that too.

>> True. I'm just saying >> we don't know the full story. >> We don't know the full story and you guys are talking. >> He listen at the end of the day I don't know. I would not put all of my stock in what my coworker is saying. I would give some benefit of the doubt also to your manager. I'm just saying don't come in guns of blazing. That's all I'm saying.

>> Okay. >> Have you been getting raises regularly?

I've gotten one raise in well two raises in five and a half years.

>> Okay. And do you feel like those were fair or do you feel like hey I went from you know junior to senior there should have been a much bigger bump than just like a cost of living adjustment >> that um one of them was cost of living, one of them was a raise. >> Okay. Yeah, I would I would bring it up.

Do you have an annual review coming up soon or like a one-on-one with your leader that you have regularly >> in December? >> Okay, that's a good time to have that.

You could start the conversation now and they might say, "Hey, let's let's punt this to December and we'll have a bigger conversation around it because your comp will likely change by then." Anyways,

>> but you have your feelings are valid.

Let me just say that you're not I don't like, yay, just suck it up and do your job. You're fine. >> I think you have very fair and valid feelings. I just know attacking it with that level is going to feel like entitlement.

>> And I've been there. I have attacked that problem with my leaders going, I just I feel like I should be making more because other people make good. That's just not going to play well, >> unfortunately, in reality. >> Yeah, that's the thing.

I was happy with what I was making until I found out that information. >> Yeah. And that's why the the comparison game of salary, it's it's never going to be like, "Oh, great. We're making the exact same amount.

And that's why that's the downside of these salary transparency conversations.

>> So I think just approaching it with a in a collaborative way, in a curious way of just going, hey, help me understand why this is and what a growth plan would be like. >> And that's that's going to put the ball in their court to say, okay, yeah, that's fair. >> What' you say? >> Oh, I should I should not let them know that I'm aware of your pay.

Correct.

You don't need to say they told me. Uh, but they're probably they're probably going to ask like, "Hey, like where how did that come up?" Because that can also mean, hey, we were quote gossiping. You know what I mean? That can feel like that. So, if I'm the leader, I'm going, "Why are you guys all in the break room?" >> Well, I own that. I' I'd own that and say, "Listen, this is probably information I shouldn't know, but I became aware of it." And I Yeah. In that

way, you're saying, "Hey, you know, you know, we're not supposed to be chatting about this, but at the same time, if somebody just up and tells you something, they just up and told you." So, it's like it's not Men and Black. We can't just, you know, what's the little pin doing? you know, >> but I would also be if you feel like this is the case and they haven't been looking at it and been ignoring it, whether on purpose or subconsciously, I would also be looking for other positions and the job market's tough right now, so it might be, you know, 6 months before you find something that lands.

But if you feel like, hey, it's my time to go anyways, my heart's not in it here anymore, then I would be considering that. But if you love it there, and all all other things aside, you're like, no, I love it.

Okay, that's very helpful. >> How old are you? >> Thank you. >> I'm 35. >> Call us back and tell us what happened or leave the message. Tell us what happens. I want to know to be continued.

>> Yeah, we never know what happens with these conversations. Okay, that'll be a fun report back. Hey, remember I called about that? Well, I got the raise or >> I know, right? >> I found a new job making more. >> Are you hearing this, James?

>> I'm making a note. >> James is making a But I felt this, Jade.

I've been at Ramsay, you know, 12 years now. >> Yeah. >> And I've had six jobs. You've been here 12 years. Holy smokes. >> Yeah. I started when I was a wee little baby boy less. >> I haven't grown physically, but I have grown a lot emotionally, mentally.

>> I can see. Yes. >> You know, and so I feel like I've I know that feeling cuz I've been there. And sometimes it was a legitimate, hey, there were maybe some poor leadership.

Maybe it was a a poor timing. Yeah.

>> But a lot of the times it was just me.

It was the guy inside and I was drinking my own poison, creating a narrative that wasn't true >> about this versus that or me versus >> why I'm not, you know, just this sort of like little man syndrome, fist in the air. >> Do you feel like you were you were do you feel like you fell victim to the little man syndrome? >> Well, I think there's just a level of it's never going to be as fast as you want and you're always going to feel like, well, I deserve more. I work hard around that.

>> And then over time, you look back and you're like, why was I so >> Why was I like this? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I hear that.

>> Just the way you approached it.

>> It's like your attitude towards it makes all the difference. >> Been there. >> Been there, done that. >> I feel for her. I hope it goes well.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Kiata's up next in North Carolina.

What's up, Kiata? How can we help?

>> Yes, I was calling. Well, you know what?

Thank you so much for taking my call. First of all, >> I was calling because I I finally started listening to Dave Ramsey last month. Yes, I found y'all on YouTube and was like, "Huh, this guy knows what he's talking about. I like this." and I decided to go ahead and pay off my credit card bill. >> Way to go.

>> I took the revolving debt off my credit card bill, went to my local credit union, got another checking account, and put all that debt to come out that checking account. >> Okay. >> Now, I'm watching my credit score go down. Now, keep in mind, I still have school loans that's over $17,000.

Okay? >> Should I put some of that revolving debt back onto the credit card? >> No. No.

No. No. So, you've done a wonderful thing here, which is you found some knowledge that is that was different from the knowledge you had before, right? For the first time, you're hearing some guy say, "Pay off your credit cards.

Pay off your credit cards." And you go, "You know what? What I've been doing has not been working. Let me try what this guy is saying. You pay off the credit cards." Right?

Are you ready?

>> Yes. We would tell you, and I'm telling you right now, you're concerned about your credit score, but you don't need to be concerned about your credit score.

And I'm going to tell you why. The truth is, this is the truth, and I get paid nothing for telling you this, okay? The truth is, you can do with a zero credit

score all of the things that you can do with a high credit score. And if you continue the advice that you heard from Dave Ramsey, which is to keep paying your debt off, right? The truth is eventually the things that were informing your credit score which was only debt right if you keep paying your debt off your debt will be gone. And what will happen also is your credit score will be gone because your credit score is only a deter it's only a debt

measure. That's all it is. It's how much

debt you have, how long you've had your debt, uh what types of debt you have, what percentage of debt you're utilizing of the debt that you have access to.

That's all it's measuring. It has nothing to do with whether or not you kiata actually have money. Whether you kiata manage the money that you have well and kiata has nothing to do with whether you can actually afford something. It is a madeup thing for

banks to get you to borrow money so that they can make money. That's all it is.

And the people sitting next here at this desk have bought houses and lived their whole, you know, majority of their adult lives without credit scores.

So, it's 100% possible. You just don't hear about it. How does that hit you?

>> Oh, that is nice. I did not know that.

>> Imagine you never had to think about your credit score again. Would that free you mentally?

>> Yes. >> That's what's going to happen as you as you become debtree. And likely what happened there is again your utilization went down because you paid off the debt and it's going to stabilize. And as you pay off the debt, it's going to get better.

Might get worse, might get better. And then eventually it's going to disappear once you have no debt whatsoever. And I can tell you from experience, I can tell you from all of my research. I wrote a whole I wrote a whole chapter about this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, in the credit cards chapter, explaining every objection.

Well, I can't get an apartment. Yes, you can. Here's how to do it. Not that difficult.

Well, I can't get a house. Yes, you can. Here's how to do it. Bada bing, bada boom.

>> Doesn't it sound insane?

>> Yes. And I paid off part of my student loans. So I'm looking at my loans right now and I have four of them left and I paid off one. Good.

>> And when soon as I paid it off, I watched my score drop by 10 points >> because one of it Yeah. Because one of the measures, remember we said, is how many different types of debt you have and how much utilization of the debt because because you went in the opposite direction and went the right way. They went, "Uh-oh. Uh-oh.

She's trying to exit the matrix.

>> And so, yeah.

Say what you were going to say.

>> Yes. Cuz I thought, well, I thought that you have to have like revolving debt in order to qualify for like a house eventually. But to have the credit to qualify for a house, >> you need Here's what you need to h to qual I'm going to tell you the real story. So to qualify for a credit score, yeah, you need debt. But to qualify for a house, it's the same. It's the same process just minus the credit score. So

uh for myself when we did a zero score meaning I did not have a credit score when we bought our first house they wanted to know uh they wanted payubs for the last I think it was 3 months 3 months of payubs since uh I'm self-employed they wanted to see our tax returns uh for a couple of years they wanted to see trade lines which is literally things like cell phones utilities insurance >> I mean >> and then rental history have you paid have you paid rent on time every month for the last 12 months.

>> Yes. >> Boom. >> And that's called manual underwriting.

So the difference between manual underwriting and buying a house with a credit score is manual underwriting.

They're actually looking at your actual money. They want to see what do you get paid? How long have you been earning that money? To George's point, have you been paying your rent on time?

Have you been paying your cell phone and utilities on time? Whereas you could go over to Rocket Money or, you know, whatever and they're just going to look at a three-digit number and they're going to >> computer says, "Yeah, she's good." >> Yeah. And you, Meanwhile, you could have really, you could really not have the kind of money you need and be approved way above what you can handle.

that's how this works. That is that is the truth. And people don't hear that

side. They only hear the credit side.

And the truth is there's more than one way to skin this cat. And the way that we're I I feel like this is a terrible analogy, but I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep keep going. There's more than one ways to skin this cat. And the way we're doing it, there's not as much tears and suffering. There we go. We finished the analogy. I'm right finish it out.

Kat, I'm cheering you on to debt freedom and I encourage you to cut up those cards and stop looking at the score. Are you Do you have like some kind of credit karma app or something or you log in to look at your score?

The credit card company sends me like the little chime thing on my phone like like a little text message. >> And you know what they're going to say? They're going to say, "Hey, we miss you.

Here's a new line of credit." Well, up your line of credit, girl. Where you been? >> Mhm. >> Exactly. I know their marketing. And so, I'm not going to trust a credit card company to tell me what to do with my money cuz they want my money.

>> And Kata, I'll tell you what happened to me. So, uh, as we, my husband Sam, we had at one point we had almost $500,000 of debt. And as we were paying it down, Yeah. uh the credit score was dropping and we had finally paid off all the debt and I was checking my score.

I was going on Credit Karma to check my score and it was still like hanging out like 610. It was terrible. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, when is it going to drop to zero because you're right, you can't do anything with a bad credit score, but with a zero credit score, you're you're winning." And so I was like, "Man, this doesn't seem right." And so finally I went on free credit report. Is it freecreditreport.com?

>> Annualcreditreport.com. >> Thank you. annualcreditreport.com to get the real deal from Equifax, TransUnion, all that.

Credit Karma was reporting that it was low to entice me to get back into debt products. So, please, please be careful.

>> Guess what? That's how they make money by partnering with all the debt companies and lenders to with affiliate links to get you to go sign up for their latest and greatest card. You see how much of a scam this whole system is?

>> Wow.

>> So, I'm going to send you a copy of my book. It'll peel back these layers for you if you'll read it. It's called Breaking Free from Broke, Hang on the Line, and just read the credit cards chapter. If you just got time for one chapter, read that one. And I hope it gives you some hope that you don't need to live this kind of way.

>> I'm going to need the whole book for a house and get stuff in.

>> I'll walk you through all of it in that book and how to do it without a credit score, every single thing you need. And our partners at Church Hill Mortgage, those are the folks who know how to do it. They're the number one in the country when it comes to these no score loans with manual underwriting. Cuz the truth is most lenders are just lazy and they'd rather the computer tell them >> than have a real person look through these documents.

>> They're trying to make as many loans as possible to make as much money. >> And it that's what you said, George, is so true. It is worth highlighting.

That's very possible, but there are plenty of places that do. And we're always going to recommend Church Hill Mortgage because number one, they're in almost all of the 50 states so you can get your loan done. But yeah, it just takes a little All of this, George, is just that little bit of effort, a little more effort, a little more due diligence just to just look under the hood. You actually have to open the hood to look under it.

>> That's a good You know what I'm saying? >> I'll give you one last one. The credit score. It's like watching a juggler and you're like, "Wow, they're perfectly juggling all of this." And you're like, "Yeah, but that looks exhausting." Like, "Yeah, but they're so good at juggling.

>> You lose focus for one second." >> Juggling has no falls out. Unless you're part of a circus, just drop the balls, guys. Live your best life. Enough with the dead.

that enough keeping up with the three-digit number.

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[Music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years. And so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like nobody will work with you. But Y Refi was built for this. They'll help you explore a fresh start. So go to yriefhigh.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey.

Not available in all states. All righty.

Today's question comes from Claire in Nebraska. She says, "I bought a van that I plan to live in full-time. I bring home $30,000 a year and the van was $25,000 which I'm financing at $350 a

month. My rationale for doing this is that I won't be paying rent except for the occasional camping fees. If I add my

$95 a month car insurance, my total monthly payments are $433.

I did borrow money to buy the van, but Dave is not against borrowing money for a mortgage, and I see the van loan expense as kind of being like a mortgage. Am I making a smart decision to set myself up for future success?

Okay. So, Claire, I I'm tracking with you on the idea of, hey, if I'm viewing this as a mortgage, then the debt, you know, wasn't a bad thing. I can kind of get there with you mentally on how you made that transformation. I'm not saying I agree, but I can I can make that transformation with you. I think the bigger the biggest problem that I have with this is and and let me go a step

further. I'm also tracking with you on trying to keep your expenses low. I I respect what you're trying to do there.

Um, my biggest issue with this is it's something that is going to continue to go down in value and it it likely will

be upside down before the time that

you've paid it off. By the time you're ready to trade it in for another van, you're probably going to have the problem with it being upside down. So, for that reason, the fact that it's something that's going down in value versus going up is why I don't like this

deal. And my bigger question, George, for Clara would be, >> what's happening in your life that you're needing to have your to live in your van and not get an apartment or, you know, that sort of thing. >> Yeah. Usually people aren't making that kind of move out of a place of strength, >> right?

>> Sometimes it's, hey, we want to do something fun and wild and we're going to, you know, get the family to live in an ARV. That's that's different. But usually it's I try to justify it because I'm in a bad financial position and this feels like the best move when really it's a shortcut that doesn't lead you anywhere. >> Well, she's not saying there and maybe this is here and you just forgot to ride it.

You know, >> sure, I can get on board with that. You didn't say how old you are either.

There's a lot here that I'd like to know. If you're 65 and this is the move.

>> Yeah. I mean I mean it's Nebraska. Like I'm thinking about winter in Nebraska living in a van.

>> That just scares me for your your health, your mental health, your quality of life. >> So the bigger question is where does Clare want to be 5 years from now? If that's to be a homeowner, I just think we need to focus on getting our income up, getting the car that we can afford today in cash, rent somewhere that you can afford. Uh and then let's focus on

moving up. And right now your biggest expense is an asset that's going down in value. And so that's the difference.

Dave's the only reason we're okay borrowing a mortgage is because very few people are able to do 100% down on a house. Dave would prefer it that way. So we're only okay on a 15-year mortgage on an appreciating asset like real estate.

So I would get out of this while you can while that van is still worth something and just go rent somewhere. And if you need to get a roommate to afford it, that's fine. But I would stabilize your life in that way instead of living in a van for the foreseeable future.

>> Thanks for the question.

>> All right, Christina's up next in Juno,

Alaska. All right, now we're getting adventurous. What's going on, Christina?

>> Hello. It's my two favorite people. I'm so grateful to have gotten through.

>> You're my favorite person so far.

>> A thank you. All right, here's my question. My husband is using our emergency fund as a bank. He's using the

fund as a way to borrow money without a loan. He is paying the fund back. Um but

he's been using it for non-emergency items as well as emergency items. And we've gone down from um 6 months fully

funded down to $1,500.

>> So if anything were to happen right now, it we'd kind of be up a creek.

>> And I know he fully intends to repay the

fund and I used it as well. So, I have to repay the fund. But, um um little backstory on that. Two years ago, our house went through a flood >> and um we lost the floors. Like we have

plywood floors right now because um and we had to cut up all the sheetrock. Um so, we have a whole bunch of house repairs that need to be done.

>> Did insurance not cover the repairs?

>> No, because we didn't have flood insurance. that we we are not we were

not in a flood zone and um the you know

climate has changed and actually we live near a glacier >> that is letting out a copious amounts of

water. It's not something that we could plan on and it's not something people saw in the future >> and so we did not have flood insurance

when the river that we live >> fairly close to um do its thing and

>> but when you have an emergency fund it is for emergencies. It's for when things happen that you did not foresee happening. And it sounds like, yes, to your point, this money has been used for both emergency funds, which would be a green light, but it sounds like it's been used more so for non-emergencies.

So, I have a question. What how much was in there at the six-month point?

>> Uh, 35,000.

>> 35,000. And it's now down to,500. Is that what I heard you say?

>> Correct. >> So, I want to know what types of things has your husband non-emergency things.

What types of things has he been spending this on? And I want to know has it been done in secret or has he been saying hey I really want to do this I'm just going to pull it from the emergency fund and are you like >> you're an accomplice. >> Yeah. Are you like no or go ahead as long as you pay it back. Tell us more about exactly how this is going down.

>> Um the um I have known about every

single time there there no secrets.

>> That's good. >> Um and I have a hard time saying no to

him. >> Okay. And why why is that? Are you just

like people pleaser or is he just like, "Well, I'm doing it anyway." Like, is he just very stubborn or both?

>> I think it's both, honestly. Um, I

have a hard time saying no because I just want him to have everything. But, um, >> are these toys? Give us some examples of what he's used this money for that is not an emergency.

>> Um, fixing up his truck. So, uh, truck parts. >> Okay. >> Um, just bought a new TV.

Okay, listen. >> Um, >> what if we just separated this? Like, what if you had a different fund that was just like the savings fund to buy new stuff? >> Well, be what >> and cash flow it? >> Before we get to that though, >> I tried that. >> Because here's the thing. Before we even get to that, I I want to say something that I'm It's not an insult. I think it's just true. And let me frame this up by saying this is your money, right?

This 35,000, whatever it started, it is your money. And the truth is you can spend it however you want. But both of you said we're earmarking this as an emergency fund. And both of you said that for a reason. You understood either we're working this plan or we understand the value of having emergency funds set aside. Right? So at that point it becomes a personal integrity issue because you've both said we believe that this should be this. And then when you don't uphold it, that's a personal integrity issue to yourself of saying,

I'd rather you just do what George said and say, "Okay, you know what? We've just decided we don't want an emergency fund anymore. We want a truck fund and we want a TV and appliance fund." And then just tell yourself the truth. But this business of saying one thing out loud whilst doing something else here, that is something >> cognitive dissonance, disongruity there.

So, um, to Jade's point, I think we need to do some soularching and have a come to Jesus meeting and say, >> uh, we might need to move this savings to a different account that is less accessible >> so that you're not just dipping in there for everything. >> So, that might be one solution. I don't like it as a long-term solution, but right now it stops the bleeding.

>> That's good. That's true. >> Cuz you're about to have a real emergency. Like that's when Murphy shows up is when you just bought the brand new TV and then your HVAC goes out >> and you got 1,500 bucks and now you're taking out a personal loan to cover the HVAC.

>> And when that happens, that's when you're really going to feel like, dang it, this and you're going to feel like, man, this is my fault. I didn't keep my promise to myself and now because of that, here we are. Whereas if you can at least do what George said and say, okay, this is the slush fund money. This over here is the emergency fund money.

We'll keep this much in the EF fund.

>> Yeah, I would move I would move it to a different savings account. You can check out fairwinds.org/ramsey and they've got a smart bundle for our fans and they have a save smart savings account with high yield. It's awesome.

That might be a good temporary fix. But ask yourself these three questions. Is it urgent? Is it necessary? Is it unexpected? If it's not a heck yes to all three of those, do not touch it.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Jade Warshaw. Open phones at88255225.

You call us up, we'll help you transform your life. Donna is in Ontario, Canada.

What's going on, Donna?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um,

I'm 63 and retired and my husband um is

a little bit younger than me, but he'll be working for maybe another three years. It's a second marriage for both of us and we both have two adult children. Um my husband

funded my stepdaughter's dental school

with our heliloc on our home and cottage

for $600,000.

>> Wow. >> And um so now um I'm a little nervous

about this because it changed a little bit from the beginning. the beginning she was supposed to um we would fund her

four-year um dental school and then she

would graduate, get a job and pay us go to the bank and get a loan and pay us back. Um but then she did another two years. That's why it's 600,000 in total.

And >> why did she do another two years?

>> Uh to be a specialist >> and you guys paid for that no problem.

Yeah, during COVID we um re-evaluated

our cottage so we could borrow more money on that one. Um so it's a total of

600,000 on our home and our cottage. But

now um it looks like my husband wants to

turn this into a a mortgage because of

the savings in the interest rates and then the payments will also help pay down the principal faster.

And now he's looking at buying life insurance to pay extra to buy life

insurance while he's working in case he

dies. That that money would be used to

pay off her debts so that he said she

doesn't have to deal with me.

>> What happened to the plan of her graduating and taking on the loan from

you guys?

>> Um because he they didn't have the right information. um she's working in the States and she um she's not a US

citizen, >> right? But I I >> and she didn't >> I understand um I'm not saying I agree with the plan, but wasn't the plan that she would then take out her own $600,000

loan and basically give you guys the cash so you were free and clear. Wasn't that what happened there?

>> Um yeah, that was the original agreement

that I agreed to. Um, but it wouldn't have been 600. Probably would have been 400,000 because it would have been only uh the four years. >> But she chose to do the extra two.

>> She she >> What was the agreement there? >> Yeah. >> Um there nothing had changed because she was still in school.

>> But did she say, "Hey, I'm going to do these extra two years. I'll cover it through the future loan I get." Or was it, "Hey, we'll cover the extra two years. You go have fun." My husband said that we would cover the the um total.

>> So you guys are on the hook for 200.

She's on the hook in theory for 400.

>> No, in theory she's on the hook for 600.

>> Okay. And I'm saying >> keep paying >> what happened >> paying us back. >> Okay. But I'm saying did she do her part of the plan which was now when I graduate I'm supposed to go get this loan for 600,000 and pay back mom and dad. What happened there?

um because um she a bank will not give

her a loan because >> she's she would >> so a Canadian bank won't give her a loan because she works in the States.

>> Well, because she doesn't have her green card yet and I don't know if the bank would say we'll give you $600,000 so you can pay off your parents. I don't think >> is she making enough to pay the heliloc payment?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Is she doing that currently?

>> Yes. Okay. What's the payment every month?

>> Um, sorry, I don't have the pictures here in front of me. Um, the, um, interest rates

are, um, about 4.95

on the house and 5.45%

on the cottage. And if she was to turn it into a mortgage, it would be um,

a savings of about $3,500 a year.

>> Oh, a year. Okay. So, like 300 bucks a month is what we're talking here to do all this work. Does that include all the fees to make all this happen?

>> Um, there would be no fees.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, >> because we paid off our mortgage. So, >> it's not like a life-changing amount of money saved here and it may make it more complicated because now it's all rolled up into your mortgage versus separated out. So, it's clear how much is hers and what's yours?

>> Yeah. We don't have a mortgage. We have no debt. Everything is hers. The only

thing is is it locks into

it's now all of a sudden it's become uh a long-term commitment.

>> Yeah. That I would >> versus the line of credit which is the heliloc. I would >> I want you to rephrase that. You said you don't have debt. You guys signed on the dotted line for the 600 grand, did you not?

>> Yes. >> So if she skipped town and said, "Good luck. I'm not paying it." It's on you guys. I want you to remind you the risk is all on you right now and there's no risk on her part. >> And so while that's happening, she's living a good life cuz she has no risk.

As long as she makes the payments, you guys are happy. But I want this to get transferred to her as soon as possible.

>> And that's what I would like too. But um

my husband seems to want to take care of her. Um and he seems to be okay.

>> What's your net worth >> this debt? >> Um I think it's 1.2 2 million

>> 1.2 >> property >> and what's left the the cottage just has the 600 grand. Like was it paid off before you took on the loan?

>> Uh we just paid off our mortgage uh a couple months ago. So um >> Okay. >> The um the heliloc on the cottage is um

275,000 and then the heliloc on the

house is 325,000.

So, we're going to pay off the um lower

the lesser loan first and turn that into a mortgage for 275,000.

>> Yeah. I know in Canada it's different with mortgages and it resets every 5 years. Is that right? >> Yeah. And like a term Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, if the interest works out in your favor and you want to save the 3500, I think that solves one problem. It puts out one tiny fire, but there is a much bigger fire here, which is the 600,000 >> pound gorilla on your backs.

Yeah, I'm I'm a little worried about it.

My husband doesn't seem to be. Um

>> I actually think that right in this moment, that's the bigger problem than the 600,000 because as long as you guys aren't on the same page, not not much is

going to be done to solve it because he's okay with it. And so something's got to happen to where you guys either both agree, you know what, this is a gift and we're paying it off or this is not a gift and we're going to be very serious about finding a way to transfer the risk from us to the daughter. Which

I got to I just got to say, um, it's

interesting to me how this played out because you're feeling this weight of this $600,000, you know, like this is not good debt to have. Um, did you know

that did you have a debt? Were you averse to debt before you did this?

Because it's weird that you would want to transfer this burden of debt onto a child or to a kid. She's grown now. I mean, she's out of school, but I mean,

my point is debt is not good for anyone,

>> especially someone who wants to retire in 3 years while you've already retired.

It just puts you guys at risk that he's going to have to keep working longer or you might have to sell the cottage if this doesn't play out perfectly, which it already hasn't, let me remind you.

So, there's just a lot of risk here. I want to get this hot potato out of your hands as soon as possible. But, if you want to refinance and save some money in the meantime, be my guest. Good luck, Donna.

[Applause]

[Music]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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[Music]

Hey, if you're enjoying the Ramsay show or you ever have, do us a quick favor.

Hit the like button. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the share button, the follow button. Just hit all the buttons. It really helps us out. It tells the algorithm that you're enjoying this and someone else might, too. And that helps us spread some hope. Appreciate you guys doing that. All right, Jade, what do you got for me?

>> You were supposed to set it up in a better way than this. >> I got no setup. Jade said, "Hey, I want to do something." And I went, "Jade, it's your show. I'm just living it." >> No, you were supposed to talk about TRS Live. And then I was going to segue on that. >> Well, that's true. Do the people know? All right, we're doing the Ramsay show live on the road. It's already sold out.

We've got Chicago and Orlando on September 30th and October 2nd. And we're pumped to hit the road and see what happens in a live environment. >> And it's a fun combination like your day

your the Chicago is different than Orlando. >> Yes. Chicago will be myself, Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, and then two days later we'll be in Orlando with Jade Warshaw and Dr. John Deloney.

>> That's good. I'm excited. >> And me. I'll be there, too. >> Okay. So this is my bad segue for we were in so here on campus we have a an office that all the personalities are in and we were in there talking and somehow we started talking about the Lion King the movie Disney >> and we were saying if

we were playing those roles who would we

be >> oh >> and so Ken got all hung up that he should be Rafiki.

>> Oh. >> And I was like oh okay even though I kind of saw you possibly being Rafiki.

And then we were talking about Scar and I said John is definitely Scar. >> John is Scar. Yeah. He's got that dark humor. >> Yeah. And so we asked >> Villaness chat GPT to tell us if we were

>> if Ken should be.

>> Yeah. Who's >> I feel like Ken is Timone.

>> Interesting that >> I wanted to be Timone. You got Timone energy too. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to tell you what chat GBT said. Okay.

>> Of course. Mufasa Dave, right?

>> Ken Coleman Rafiki. Oh, good.

>> It says that he's full of wisdom and guidance. That's what I was going to say. >> Calling and purpose and a little eccentric at times.

>> Okay. George, you're Simba.

>> What? >> George, it says the younger energetic leader. Uh, he's the leader in training who's finding his place in voice.

>> That's beautiful. And that means that Dave Ramsey is my father, >> which >> listen, >> there we go. The parallel universe.

>> That's different. Rachel Cruz is Nala.

I'm not surprised by that. >> That makes sense. Um, John Deloney, Timone. >> Oh, that may. Yeah, okay. I could see that. >> So, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm thinking I'm going to be Scar.

>> Yeah. Who did you get? >> I'm Pumba.

>> Wow, they did you dirty with Pumba.

>> Fun loving, approachable, and totally authentic. She helps people feel safe being themselves and also being a young wartthog. All right, moving on.

>> You lost me at the wartthog, but everything else was accurate. >> He is, right? Isn't he a wartthog?

>> Yeah. >> All right, just a little >> That's beautiful. Just a little fun segment there. >> That was fun. Yeah, we could do the redo the live action movie and cast us and see what happens there. >> Listen, a lot could go wrong.

>> Yeah, I don't want to see Deloney and Dave, you know, go at it. That's That's a scary premise.

>> Well, if you're listening online, drop in the chats who you think it should have been. >> That's so fun to I I thought I would be like one of the hyenas. >> I thought you were going to be >> laughing in the corner. >> Remember Zazu the bird?

>> I thought you could have been him. So, >> yeah. >> Anyway. >> All right. That was fun. Thank you for that.

>> Can't wait. Moving on.

>> Keith is waiting in Georgia. He's going, "What are they doing?" I got a real question to ask you. >> I know. >> Keith, what's going on, man? Welcome to the Ramsay Show. >> Hey, thank you. Thank you guys for having me. Um, >> uh, so full disclosure, I'm a pretty big ball of nerves right now. I've never really >> Oh, dude, it's just me here. You couldn't You couldn't have chosen better for a day to be nervous. I got you.

>> Got it. Uh, so I'm I'm hoping I I can get a nudge in the right direction. Um, so I'm in the process of trying to find

a a property to move into with me and my wife as a rental. Um, the only issue I'm

running into is um I did have a a home

that um was forclosed on about 3 years

ago and um since then I I kind of got

knocked down again with uh losing my job

where actually the location I had closed. So, it it was uh I didn't really

have a choice in that.

>> And um I I kind of took it upon myself to go to school, get my CDL, and um I've

been doing that now for about 6 months.

Um but uh my credit's not going up as as

high as I want it to. And um I I I'm

trying to see what what the best method

is going to be to to just getting into a

apartment or a home because I mean to be honest right now me and my wife are are staying in a a camper. So >> I'm I'm kind of getting stir crazy.

>> What about your wife? What is her financial picture as far as her credit look like? >> Uh she's she's not much better off. So when when we first got together, she didn't really have any credit. Um, and then she actually ended up losing her job due to a similar situation around the same time I did. And this was November of this past year.

>> So, uh, her credit was slowly climbing.

And then, um, when that happened, we kind of got behind and her credit's actually a little bit lower than mine.

>> So, um, you guys are both working full-time now.

>> Um, I'm working full-time. My wife is working part-time currently. Um she did

recently just get a job offer um to uh

work as a director for a daycare and she'll be starting that in November which is good news. >> Yeah, that's great. Um >> what will you be earning once with you with your CDL and once she becomes director at that daycare?

>> So I've been working now with my CDL since March. Um I'm currently earning

about 60,000 per year.

>> She will be earning roughly 35,000.

>> Good. Okay. So, really the big problem here is you're feeling like the credit score is keeping you from getting in that apartment to which I'd say, you know, if if I were in your shoes, I'd try to avoid kind of that big box apartment system and >> the corporate ones where they just run it on the computer and they go, "Well, it didn't go through. Sorry, you can't rent here." I would be looking for more of like a landlord or an actual human being who can sort of look at the whole picture.

And I would just be upfront with them when that runs it. You're going to say, "Hey, if you run the credit, here's what you're going to find. We had a foreclosure. Here's where we're at now.

Here's our income. We make about 100 grand a year. We have enough to cover the, you know, they might require a higher deposit. There might be some stipulations, but if you look around long enough, you're going to find a real human being who will allow you to rent." >> I see.

Um, and then the other thing that's kind of got me super anxious is, you know, when when we're ready to purchase a home and, you know, again, in a few years, I'm I'm just so worried about how that foreclosure is going to affect me and what kind of hurdles I'm going to have to go through at that point.

>> Uh, we do. Um, so we have about 10,000

um in auto loans and then there's about another 10,000 in collections currently.

Okay. So, you have a ways to go by the time you're cleaning that up, get the fully funded emergency fund, save up a down payment. That's going to be a few years from now.

>> Okay. >> And the credit Well, that foreclosure will likely stay on your credit report for about seven years from my research.

Does that sound about right? >> That sounds right. It's kind of in that way it's like a bankruptcy. It'll follow you around for a while, but eventually it's going to let go of you and you'll be able to kind of have that fresh start.

But your credit score should improve much faster than that. So, as you pay down this debt and you get rid of it, that's going to help to improve it. Um, and within probably two years, which is a good timeline for you guys to get rid of the debt, get the emergency funds, and work on that down payment.

Um, and it might even disappear by then, which could actually work in your favor, and you can go through the manual underwriting process at that point, especially if you've had 12 months of rental history, which hopefully you'll have by then. So, I know it feels like, man, I mean, life has truly beat you guys down. The job losses, the foreclosure, I can just feel that you've lost your mojo. I just want you to know that 3 years from now, you're going to be in a completely different place.

But in the moment, it feels like this is forever. >> Like, how are we ever going to crawl out of this? >> Yeah.

struggle the last few years. It just feels like I'm expecting another something else, you know, more bad news to come around the corner. And that's part of why I got my CDL because it's like, well, at least I have this, you know, I have a guaranteed way to work and, you know, even if the job shuts down, I I'll work somewhere else. It's not a huge deal.

So, that that's given me a little bit of hope, but >> yeah, >> just given the past, I >> Yeah, your income is going to create that stability, and that stability will create a foundation for you guys to get out of this situation. So, it's all going to change, man. 2026 is going to be a very different year for you guys. is I'm rooting you on to get rid of the debt.

I'm going to send you our allnew Every Dollar. It's going to help you guys find the margin, give you recommendations, coach you along the way, and I can't wait to see the progress you guys make. Keith, I'm rooting for you, man.

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Anna is up next in Spokane, Washington.

Anna, welcome to the Ramsay Show. How can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm so happy to be speaking with you guys today. Thank you. >> Yeah, we're happy as well. What's your question? >> Um, yeah, so I'm kind of having like a midlife crisis. Um, >> how old are you? >> I'm 50 50 years old. My kids are grown.

>> Um, so I was a single mom for 23 years.

I've got um 18 credit cards. I've got zero debt, zero retirement. I have great credit score, no mortgage, no house. Um,

I do have 25 grand in savings. Um, and I

have a good car. Um, my problem is that

um I when I was raising kids, I never made more than 34,000 a year. Um, when

my kids were older and um COVID happened

um and the job market dropped, I just kept going and getting a better better job and they were just taking warm bodies at the time, right? And so I'm now in a job where I almost make 70,000 a year. >> Awesome. >> Now that the job market has switched again, um the company I'm in a tech company as a financial analyst, they're starting to lay off people.

>> Um we just laid off seven people last week because they could not do their jobs. They were um uh what's the word? I'm not able to, you know, not smart, basically not growing with the job. And I'm afraid I fit that category. I'm afraid I'm going to get laid off. My job is incredibly stressful. Um I wake up in the middle of the night with panic attacks.

>> Oh. >> And so, um I did a lot of research in

what kind of job I could um get with my

type of hobbies, things that I do really enjoy to do, not sitting on a computer.

Before you go to that, can I ask a question about your your anxiety and about you being afraid that you're on that list >> before you go to the job search?

>> Um, is that what you're hearing back in your reviews that you're not is that what you're consistently hearing is that you're not quite hitting the mark? >> Well, I was so last week um when we laid

off those seven people, that's when I was kind of told. So, it was kind of like, hey, we laid off seven people last week. And I was like, "Oh no, you know, why?" >> And they said, "Well, they were not meeting the mark and um >> they're underqualified for the job." And it was kind of like a you better like catch up or do something, right? But

what did they say qualified in a >> they said so it I want I what I'm trying to find out is if you're just fearful or if something truly was said to you of hey Anna we're making layoffs for people who are not you know up to par and you're fitting that list and so we don't want you to be one of those people but right now you're headed down that direction. Have they said something clear to you like that?

>> Not clear but okay >> I that was the undertone of the situation. Understood. Okay. And that's what's giving you the anxiety.

>> What would it take for you to become qualified, quote unquote?

>> I don't know. I mean, I, you know, I

worked in um admin assistant for a really long time and I kind of, you know, I got good in Excel and I worked my way up in that. Um, but I I've kind

of always kind of switched and bounced around in my career. I've never really had a career. Um, I I before COVID, I

actually became um a certified yoga

teacher. I I work in hospice before an admin and um I became a full-time yoga

teacher. I owned my own business doing indoor plants and aquariums >> and I um worked as a hospice caregiver.

>> I was happier then than I'd ever been in my life. >> So, you're saying this life is this job sucking the life out of you?

Yes, absolutely. I don't sleep. I don't have because I'm so >> If you want to move on, if you want to move on because the job's sucking the life out of you, that's very different from I feel like I might not be making

requirements and I'm scared I won't be able to meet these requirements. Cuz then I'd say, hey, >> it's both. It's both.

>> Yeah. Even if you got the requirements, you're still like, I don't want to be doing this. And so, for those reasons alone, I'd go look for something else.

But I wouldn't just up and quit today. I would keep the stability you have while looking for the next thing.

>> Yes. And so, and that's where, you know, I have a lot of conflicting information from advice from other people. And that's why I was calling you guys today cuz I, like I said, I I did a lot of research on what type of job I could get that, you know, pays anything. And, you know, then I'm looking at like getting student loans if I wanted to become like a a OTAA or a physical therapist assistant.

um you know that maybe I can you know the top end of that is 70,000 so I' maybe start around 50,000 which I don't

want to go down in salary >> why you can't really afford to at this point you told us you have no retirement whatsoever >> yeah retirement it's all up to you

>> yeah my rent keeps going up >> um so what I did find was a um estate

manager or like a live-in nanny >> type situation where I could actually um

start at around 80,000 a year and have all of my living expenses covered.

>> Amazing. You could shovel money into retirement at that point. >> And you like kids you like kids >> other people's kids? >> I do. I not only do I love kids, but I

also um have a son on the spectrum. Um

and you know, it was funny because I thought, well, maybe I'm not really qualified to do that because I don't have like an early education childhood certification or something. Well, >> you do have 23 years experience of raising kids and also having, you know, a kid with special needs or >> I'd rather that than somebody with a piece of paper. >> Yeah. I think when I think you're so focused on what am I qualified for, I want you to start focusing on what am I wired to do and what lights me up cuz we I couldn't care less if I'm hiring you as my estate manager.

What's your resume?

I'm like, how are you with my kids? Can I trust you? Mhm. >> It's all about integrity and work ethic and would you treat my family and my house like I would >> and so I think this is a great next step for you and even if it's not the thing for the next 10 years, it sounds like you're just fired up about making that shift. And is this like offer on the table? You could go take it tomorrow.

Um I it's not but I did you know the

other thing is I live in Spokane Washington and my mom is in the Seattle area and she's getting older so I'd like to be closer to her but it's a lot you

know the living expenses are a lot more there. Yeah. Um but I did find a agency

that you know um helps you as a nanny to

find a job and there are several jobs highpaying jobs in Seattle area >> that are 80 grand living >> expenses covered. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> I would I'd be exploring that getting interviews putting your best foot forward. >> Yeah. They even provide like a car and insurance and wonder health insurance >> a phone. So, um I would just have, you

know, clothing basically as my expense and then of course like seeing my kids, you know, um maybe I'd fly them over for

>> I think you've answered your question.

>> It sounds like you've put a lot of thought into you've you've kind of like started the dreaming phase of it, which is Yeah, I think you're really into this. The only caveat, yeah, is don't quit your current job until you have the offer and a start date. Like you know that this other thing is happening. Otherwise, you could really uh jack yourself. >> And have they been doing severance packages with the layoffs?

>> They have. >> Okay. That'll give you even more breathing room. If it does happen, there's a silver lining there that you've got some cushion.

>> Yeah, I do have a three-bedroom home. I, you know, I need to get rid of everything. And then that's my next step is like trying to decide what to keep and and what to put in storage. I already found I can get a storage unit for about 2,000 a year.

>> Why even keep the storage unit? I'd be on Facebook Marketplace this entire weekend just listing stuff.

>> Yeah, it's hard for me. I I you know, I have some sentimental things I'm attached to and I think mostly it would just be like keeping Christmas decorations when my kids are little.

>> Yes, keep that. >> Um >> Yeah. So, I mean it's it wouldn't be much, but um just something too because my my goal would be if if this does work out um that you know maybe I would buy

like a tiny home or something in four or five years and that way I could if I don't you know do that then I would say okay the storage unit has to go kind of put a time limit on like you know okay kids you know take your Christmas decorations or um you know or if I had a

tiny home then I could you know certainly move all my things into my

home. Um, yeah. So,

>> I like the idea. I like where you're headed. >> I like the idea. You've got a clear idea for what you want to do being a living nanny.

It provides the income above what you were earning before. And to George's point, it gives you the time to uh start investing 15% and you have the goal of one day, yeah, I want to put a down payment on a house and I want to pay live in a paid for house. I don't know if I'd go for a tiny house, but you get the idea.

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All right.

Serious question. Hard question. If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage?

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All right, Dalia is up next in Chicago.

What's going on, Dalia?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm just calling to see about

um if you guys have any ideas on how to find money for an adoption.

>> Oh, wow. >> All right. What led you guys to this spot? >> Yes, my husband and I have been married um almost 10 years. We have two biological daughters. Um before we had

them, we had been told we might not be able to have kids. And that was something we kind of prayed about and really felt God put on our hearts um to grow our family through adoption. So, we had our two >> bio kids and then still through all of that, we've really felt like this is something God wants us to do.

>> Wow. >> And um yeah, so it's been about 5 years we were on the waiting for a match and then just about a month ago, we got a

call that we got matched with a birth mom >> and she's due Yeah, she's due in the

next like week.

>> Oh gosh. >> So, this is coming fast. I don't know.

So, you'll have to educate me a little here. What's it cost? Um, what's it what's it cost to adopt?

>> Oh, you broke up on us, Dalia. Right at the juicy part. Are you with us still?

>> Hello. >> Okay, there we go. Over here. Did you hear my question, Dalia?

>> Yes. So, we're right about the average, which is 40,000.

>> Okay. And this is in two weeks. So, what

do you have laying around moneywise?

Like, what do you what assets do you have? >> Yeah. So, we have our house, our home.

Um, we still owe about 320,000

on it. Um, and then we had our savings, which we had about 30,000 or like 20

27,000.

>> Um, so we paid already 12,000 like

deposits that have been um requested as

you know, the date gets closer.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So, we've paid about 12 of our own savings. And then we had a big sale at church and raised about four. Um,

and then a few family members giving us some money as well. So, we're about at I

think close to like 20 that we still need. >> Okay. And how much do you have now?

>> Yeah. >> Like in things you can liquidate that you could use toward this?

>> I I mean other than the house, I don't know. >> So, you have nothing in savings? I thought you said you had 30,000 in savings. >> Yes. So, we have about like 16 and a

half left because we also have to pay.

She's in a different state than us. So, we have to pay to fly there, stay there for 3 weeks at least for all the legal

process. So, that's like Airbnb, car rental. So, that's been coming out of our savings as well. >> So, let me let me recap this to make sure I'm I'm tracking with you. Did you tell me it was like forget the the Airbnb stay stuff, but just the adoption? You said it's 40,000. And did you tell me you've already paid 12, so you only owe 28?

>> Yes. And then we've raised some money through church and family.

>> Well, let's walk walk slowly with me.

So, you said 4,000 from church. So, now you're at 24. Is that correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And then we still haven't touched your Did the 12,000 come from your original 27 that you had saved? Yes.

>> Okay. Okay. Now I'm trying.

>> How much are you down to across your checking and savings accounts?

>> Should be 15.

>> Yeah. Like 165 I think around there.

>> Okay. So we're about 10,000 off, right?

Does that sound right? >> What? Yeah. What do you still owe versus what you have?

>> So we still owe the 20 20,000. About 20,000. >> Okay. And you have 16 and a half.

>> $3500 I had. Okay.

That's That's the math we're trying to solve right now is we're $3,500 short and we need this money in two weeks, you said, or when is it actually due? Is all of it due in two weeks?

>> Yes. So, it's all due when the papers are signed and we because that's all we really have. Obviously, if we have no choice, we will. But we're trying to figure out if there was like a loan or something because we obviously have, you know, small kids and we're a young family and we want to make sure we have um emergency fund, >> right? >> And you have a community around you.

You've got friends, family, church, and you've tapped into that a little bit.

>> You said there's a GoFund there's a GoFundMe.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And Okay. So,

so I I would go to all extents to not

take out a loan for this. And

>> I don't know if that's you guys reminding people of the story that you're trying to accomplish here with this adoption through the GoFundMe. I you know, and trying to kind of amp that up a little bit. >> Now that there's a timeline, I think people get more excited whether it's a child or anything else on the horizon when you go, "Guys, we've been placed.

I'm sending an update to everyone I know. I'm writing letters to my neighbors, to my church, to my family.

We are on the cusp of this and we are so close to our goal, but we're just so short. I feel like my heart just goes, "Oh my gosh, I want to give. I want to be a part of this." Like, we're at the finish line here at the marathon.

>> So, I would do everything in my power to do all of that while doing side hustles for the next two weeks, while selling everything I can that's not tied down.

>> Everything. >> Like, act like this is the $3,500 debt that must be paid in the next two weeks.

>> Yeah. cuz this I mean really what's on the this gets you your baby, >> you know? This gets you your family member. So I'm like nothing's off the table. I mean I'm not selling the house, but nothing's off the table. You know what I'm saying? Like so I I would go ham on this. And then there's also I don't know, we didn't ask you your income, but how much margin do you have at the end of every month >> after you've paid your bills and everything? >> About 2,000.

>> Okay. So that's I would be saying this whole Airbnb thing and bringing this can't this needs to cost us $2,000 like this stay we need to figure this out.

Does somebody have a house that can let us stay crash there or use their Airbnb for free because of what we're trying to do here. This ain't no vacation. We're trying to get our baby home. This is when you take to social you take to social media and you make sure everybody knows this story and what you're trying to do and you're on a tight time crunch and see if people get generous and I'd

be doing everything so that I don't have to take out debt because this is something that's supposed to be exciting and joyfilled and debt just has a way of putting a damper on stuff like that. >> 100%. Yeah. I can't in good faith tell you just go take out a loan.

I think it's going to make it all the more sweet and joyful when you guys cash flow this whole thing and you write that final check and you just get to go home and focus on that baby. >> Yeah. Listen, send me the GoFundMe. Put me on.

>> DM it to Jade.

>> Okay. Thank you. >> Nobody else though. Don't get any ideas, guys. Don't be DMing Jade all your GoFundMes. >> Listen, I remember it's Dalia from Chicago. >> If you're not Dalia, keep scrolling.

Okay.

>> That's so exciting. We're so happy for you, Dalia. This is a very exciting time and you guys have done a great job getting prepared and what a wonderful thing. You know, the the world is it's a dark place. Then you get calls like Dalia and they're wanting to adopt.

>> They had two wonderful bio kids and they're going, you know what, we just want to >> get in there, >> take care of another little baby who might need some love and support.

>> So good. >> A beautiful thing. And >> yeah, a calling >> for 100%. And uh I would be tapping back into that church.

I mean, I would have zero shame at this point. >> Zero. No shame in that game. There's this is not a selfish thing you're doing.

>> No, that's why I said take to the interwebs. Get in there. Tell the story people. >> I'd be finding Facebook groups, Reddit threads.

I'd be tweeting, exing, Instagraming, >> and the timeline, too. Like, we only have 10 days left. Like, yeah, >> we're going to get this thing done, D. I can't wait.

>> Thank you for sharing the story. Rooting for you. All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back, so make good decisions.

Until then, don't go anywhere.

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Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour and the number to call is88255225

if you want to join the conversation and pose your question for the good of the group and for the good of America. Chris has chosen to do that. He's in Washington. What's going on, Chris?

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I my wife and I, we're new parents.

Uh well, relatively new. Our son's 9 months old. Um super excited about that.

Uh we made the decision to have her stay at home uh because daycare was too expensive. and we're just trying to figure out um if you guys have any tips and tricks to uh you know managing our money going forward and making sure that we're setting ourselves up for success in retirement and setting him up for college and all that good stuff.

>> Yeah. So, what was she making before she

decided to stay home?

>> She was making about 75,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what do what do you make? Uh,

I currently make 110 roughly annually and then I have a side business that I run that brings in anywhere from 20 to 45 a year. >> Okay. So, we'll just say that you're at 130. You feel good about that?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And so, have you guys done a new every dollar budget with this 130? Cuz how much does that allow you to take home every month?

>> You know, that's that's been really really new for us. Um, and so, you know,

if I had to put a number on it, I mean, our we have our mortgage, we have no other consumer debt. Um, we've done a really, really good job. Got all of our vehicles paid off and everything like that. >> Um, and so, you know, our mortgage is roughly 2,400 a month and then living expenses, you know, at another, you know, 300, 350.

>> Yeah. I don't think your mortgage is going to be the problem. I think >> some clarity.

>> I'm wondering, it sounds like you have like a little bit of regret, like should we have done this? Things feel tight.

So, where is that coming from?

>> Yeah. I just I'm I'm so um analytical

when it comes to like looking at our budget and we've, you know, both worked really really hard coming out of, you know, roughly $95,000 in student loan debt, you know, over the past three years. And um you know, we've we've just

worked really really hard and I don't ever want to put our family in a place where we're in in need for money, you

know what I mean? And um we've done a really really good job of that. We have a bunch of money put aside already, you know, and um >> so you're following the baby steps to a tea.

>> Yeah, pretty I mean I would say so.

Yeah. >> You said that, but you didn't answer the question when I said how much you're bringing home every month.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we bring home probably

uh let's see, uh 40 now 6800

a month roughly.

>> So, I'm going to challenge >> after >> I'm I'm going to challenge you to for your own good because you described yourself in one way and don't get me wrong, it probably was the way that you were before you had an eight-month-old.

Um you said, "I'm very analytical and I'm really on this." But the truth is right now you're actually not on your numbers. You're kind of guessing at them. And I have a theory that the reason that you're feeling that uh that tightness or that feeling of like you don't like the way your money is feeling. I think it's more because you don't know exactly what's going on and you don't have a clear path and plan for it.

That's why I asked about your your every dollar budget because if you look at that tonight with your wife once the baby's down >> once you guys have, you know, had something to eat and you say, "Okay, we're going to look at every dollar tonight. We're going to plug in our numbers. We're going to log on HR and find out exactly what the check is and now we're going to plug in the mortgage, everything we think we're spending money on. What does life look like now with a 8-month old?

How much are we spending on diapers now versus when the baby was first born?" All of those things are going to give you a much clearer picture on what it looks like today with the new lifestyle that you're in today. And I think that's actually going to help you because 130,000 um where you live, I think you should be okay. Now, don't get me wrong, to lose 75,000 a year is a lot of money. But that lead that actually led me to my other point of it's just one baby, right?

>> Right.

That's not true.

>> No, no, it it wasn't much of that. It was, you know, more so, you know, I want

a a right where it was expensive to do daycare and b for the for the amount of money it was going to cost us, you know, she wanted to stay home and wanted to >> okay >> uh raise our son and be >> which is fine. That's fine. But the way you framed it was it wasn't worth it for her to go to work. You made it seem like it was more of a cost thing. So, it's just personal values.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess yeah, you're right.

>> And that's fine. I think all of that though, what I'm trying to get you to is clarity. And I think if you can clearly say we're doing this because we value mom being at home with baby. That is a whole different conversation than it's too expensive, we can't afford, right?

So now you're talking about real things which is no this is a value of ours which knowing that is also going to reflect how you feel now about the budget being shorter because you've said no in our hearts we want this so now we are able to tackle a smaller budget or working with a smaller income. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm just trying to get real. I mean, George, you know how it feels to have a eight-month-old at the house.

You're not making a newborn, a 2-year-old. Life is chaotic. And that's where you and your wife sitting down looking at the budget every month and just going, "Okay, I'm going to bring seven grand in this month, and our mortgage is 2,400. We're going to have a thousand left over.

>> Yes, we do. >> Are you investing 15% out of every paycheck?

>> We are. >> Okay. And then beyond that, how much margin would you say you have at the end of every month? Or is it disappearing into random spending?

>> I would say more disappearing into random spending. >> I think that's what's making you feel out of control because you're analytical. You're going like the math ain't mathing. There should be two grand laying around and it's gone.

And it's amazing. If you like to take take all the receipts of all the money you spent, it'll make a little bitty book of the reasons why we feel that way. And so that's where budgeting with the new every dollar with your bank connected, the transactions are flowing in, total transparency and accountability with you and your wife. And then you might decide, oh, you know what?

Yeah, we need to be spending more cuz she's like, dude, I'm spending it on things the family needs. We just need to up the budget line item to account for that instead of going red flag, red flag, you're overbudget. So I think I there's probably just some disongruity with like what you're actually spending versus what you think you're spending. >> Yeah.

Your life has changed a lot.

reflect that change.

>> Yep. No, I appreciate that a lot. And and that's something that we've actually embarked on recently is kind of combining our finances just listening to you guys and >> kind of buying into that buying into that idea of, you know, becoming a unit,

you know, and and we're, you know, working through those things. And so I I really appreciate the feedback. >> I love it. I think you're doing a great job. And I think that you're a >> you're doing better than you think. >> Uh-huh. And you're a reflection of the fact that this whole thing is a process.

Like no one just in one day or in one listen or in one movement gets it all.

It is like building blocks stacking on each other and like you said, first we did the combined finance thing, then we did the debt payoff thing. All of that is stacking up and I just I think you're doing fabulous. >> Are you using a spreadsheet right now? Are you using a budgeting app?

>> Yeah, we're using we're using a spreadsheet cuz that's that's uh >> How many times has she said, "Hey, can I look at that budget spreadsheet? That sounds fun." >> Uh zero.

>> Thank you. Final answer, your honor. I I'm case closed on that We're going to send you the brand new allnew every dollar for you to have something that not only would a wife like to look at.

But now she doesn't have to say, "Can I see that spreadsheet?" You can just say, >> she'll open the app. >> She'll open her own app and be able to see it. >> There we go. That'll help get her on board on top of combining finances.

Proud of you guys. You're making progress, man. That's all you can hope for. [Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

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>> When you were saying that M&M's Lose Yourself was playing when you were like, you've just got this one chance. I was like, >> I heard the music in my head.

>> That's the most Jade thing I can think of. There's worse songs you get stuck in your head. >> Oh boy. I'm sorry.

>> Mom Spaghetti, what can you do? >> I know. >> All right, let's go to Indiana. Ann joins us there. Ann, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, my quick question is, I'm in my

early 60s, recently divorced. M

>> um I am debtree, but I'm used to

supplementing my income versus living

off on my own income. So my income is

about 40,000 a year. And so I'm renting

right now. I found this apartment that I can afford >> and just trying to decide for my future,

should I consider purchasing or just

continue to rent? you know, I know the

difference. You know, if something breaks here, they help pay for it versus

being a homeowner and all those expenses. >> So, there's no debt. Do you have any assets? Do you have any money anywhere?

>> Retirement.

>> Yeah. So, I have like 150K in

retirement. >> Okay. >> I've got my emergency fund of 10K.

>> Okay. And then I have another 45K liquid

that I have access to. I've got a paid

for car which is dependable. It's going to last me for years.

>> Good. >> Um I do have grandma inheritance. Um I

lost her this past year, but I have

about 380,000 there.

>> Great. Okay.

So, I just don't know, you know.

>> Yeah, I think >> I'm probably going to work another five or seven years.

>> Okay, great. What are you paying in rent?

>> Um, right now my monthly expenses are about 1,800 when I when I consider rent,

all the utilities, internet.

>> Good. >> Um, I like the idea. Ann, what a

reasonable house for someone you know of your needs, what does that cost you? because you seem like a reasonable lady who would give me a good answer or accurate answer. >> Um, if I just got a simple like a starter home >> or even a condo >> even a townhouse. >> Yeah. >> Um, in our area, I'm probably looking at

hopefully just under 200,000.

>> Okay. I I love that as a goal for you

and I think that it's 100% within your reach considering you've already got a

decent amount saved. uh you've got 45 liquid that's not really earmarked for anything. Um and you can continue to add

to that over time to put down the down

payment or maybe that is enough of a down payment to get you where you want to be. Uh you can log on to our uh home

calculator and we'll put the link to that in the show notes for you. But see what it would take to put the right down payment on. Of course, we don't want it to be any more than 25% of your take-home. And then from there, if you do say, "My budget's 200,000 and then I'm going to work for however many uh extra years to pay this off." I think you could do that.

And if you got to the point where it's seven or eight years later and it's still not quite paid off, you could reach into that inherited money and that retirement fund that's been growing all this time and is likely doubled and you could just reach in and take the rest of it out and pay off the remainder after seven years.

Uh, I've toyed with that idea. I just

worry about, you know, he goes out if it

needs a roof, you know. Um, I don't know

that I'm financially going to be in a place to feel comfortable taking care of all those. >> Well, George can walk you through the numbers on that because you've got you've got a good start here.

>> Yeah, you can cash flow any repairs and expenses. You'll have homeowners insurance to cover the big stuff. And so you're really worried about those those little things and kind of just maintenance and repairs, which isn't going to be, you know, 25 grand a year.

>> So I would buy a smart house that's not in disrepair. You don't need to go buy a fixer upper. Oh, yeah. >> Um I would buy something that's maybe maybe it's a little bit newer and, you know, it's going to have less repairs and less ongoing maintenance.

>> You know, it's not like a 1950s bungalow that you got to keep up with. But I like the idea. Here's an option. If you paid cash for a $200,000 home today, you would still have like 220 grand left over that you could invest. Correct?

>> Yes. >> So, if you invested that on top of your 150, uh if you were able and willing to work until like 70, you'd have 750 grand

as a little nest egg for you on top of having no mortgage that whole time.

M >> so you could even that's without you adding a dime to your investments outside of grandma's inheritance plus your 150 that you have. So I'm just trying to show you kind of the full picture of what your trade-offs are here because the other thing is homes are going to be more expensive if you wait 5 years

>> a $200,000 home is probably now worth$ 275. >> That's right. >> And so it's a moving target and I'd like to stabilize your biggest fixed expense which is housing. And you can do that by buying a house. Now, you're always going to have homeowners insurance, property taxes. Those will always be ticking up slowly over time, but you'll have the cushion to to stomach that. And I also want to go, how can we get you making more money than 40,000 at your age with your experience? What are you doing for work?

>> Um, well, I retired from my full-time career, but I'm I'm doing more of a medical assistant work. It was just something I've took time off to to tend

to my grandmother while she was ill and

um so I was, you know, not working for several years. So getting back in the game in the medical field, which is just something I chose to change >> from I used to be crisis social work. So

>> yeah, you seem like just a person who has like your heart is just to help people, take care of people. That's who you are. >> And you can make good money doing that.

So, I just want to tell you, you don't need to just settle and go, "Well, this is all I can get at my age." That's right. >> I would go, what are the caretaking type jobs that I could get that I'm able to do? >> And what will have you run it out? What will your I'm guessing you're waiting to take obviously take your social security. What will it be when you take it?

>> Uh, when I take it then, uh, it's going to be about gosh, what was it? three

over a little over 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, you'll have that coming into um >> on top of whatever nest egg you've built. So, I feel good that you're going to be able to sustain you you're live a very frugal life it seems. So, if you can keep your expenses low like you have been, I think getting a house in the near future, I mean, you have the money to do it and pay cash. That's that's what I would do personally. And then invest anything left over.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Are you working with a financial adviser right now to help you plan all this out?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I am. >> Okay, good. >> I'm just trying to decide on on a um

>> should I just I'm going to continue to rent for a year. >> Okay. >> Um so that I you know just cuz that life

changing thing.

>> Well, after a big life change, I don't want to make a decision. >> I understand. That's that's wise. Yeah, that's very wise. It's wise. It's a year lease. So, I'm going to stay here at least a year, rent, and then I'm happy.

I'm happy where I am.

>> Good. >> Um, and I can make it work financially.

I'm I am taking care of myself. Yeah, you are. >> I was scared I couldn't do that.

>> I would just caution you not to get too comfortable in that rental phase because George is so right. You want to stabilize that line item. Uh, as you age, you don't, you know, it's hard to control prices of rent and all that. So, that's a fluctuating thing and we want to get you stability.

So, while I think it's great for you to stay there for the year, run out your lease, like you said, get a handle on what this new life looks like, but uh don't get so comfortable that you forget about the dream and the stability of owning your own home. >> That's good wisdom.

>> Um 92.

>> Well, and those genetics play out. You got another 30 years at least on this earth if you just do what grandma did.

And so again, 30 years from now, who knows what rent will be. I want to get you in something that you can call your own that stabilizes and gets rid of that payment every month. We're rooting for you.

[Music]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? Well, we've got a way for you to check. You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan built just for you.

Simply head to the show notes on this episode, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Nick is up next in Austin, Texas. Nick, what's going on?

>> Hey, George and Jade. Um, thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> I uh I

So, at the start of this year, I had a wakeup call when I tried to take out another personal loan to pay for my shortages on my property taxes. I also

took a little bit extra for a trip, but I realized I had no money to live on because I had promised it all away with no interest or personal loans. That's where I found you, George, specifically.

And with a little bit of time, I started following the Ramsay plan. I started

working 60 hours a week and did that

from midFebruary to mid August.

I have attacked debt like a gazelle like

Ramsay teaches. Um, and I can see myself

debtree from my home and everything in 5 years. But my question is I'm tired. I'm

exhausted now. How do I keep going

um and moving past this this point right

now where I feel like it's never going to end?

>> Well, man, I'm proud of you've already made some serious progress and big changes in your life and I'm glad you had that wakeup call this year.

>> What's your what's your uh debt remaining?

>> Um so I started the year with 82,000

roughly 82,500 in uh nonhome debt.

>> Mhm. >> Um today I'm at

uh about 50,500.

>> Wow. Way to go.

>> You knocked out 30 grand so far and you're like, "Dude, I'm not even halfway there. How am I going to finish this race?" >> Exactly. >> What's your income? What have you been earning during this time?

>> Um, so my take-home pay or my um not

takehome, but my I guess gross is I make

75,000 a year.

>> Okay. And >> so if I break that down, that's about

>> I didn't mean to cut you off, but that's about 2,200 2,200 every two weeks. So

4,400 a month.

>> Okay. And are you doing side hustles?

>> No, but I was doing overtime.

>> Okay. >> And so my take-home pay was like 7500 a

month. >> Wow. >> 75. Great.

Um, >> and you're saying you can't keep up with that pace. What What pace would you say, "Hey, I can keep up with this for another year and a half if I do 50 hours instead of 60." >> That's what everyone keeps telling me.

I'm in the mindset of like it's all or nothing. >> And so, I think that's where I'm getting >> like defeated at.

>> I get that. I'm an all or nothing type of person myself. Um, but the truth is

if you get to that wall, you're going to have to Here's the options. All or nothing is I get to the wall, which sounds like you're at now, and I just stop. And then if I stop, that means I didn't accomplish my goal. That means I didn't do what I set out to do. And then I feel terrible about that. Right? So, it's it's important that you figure out how to be a person who can uh meet in

the middle and say, "Here's what I can do. here's the most I can do in this season and then here's the most I can do in this season and here's what makes sense for this season. So you've had what I'm going to call, you know, however many months, six, eight months of allout sprinting and now you're like, you know what, I just need to jog a little bit for a while. Let me jog.

And then maybe that looks like to George's point, yeah, going down to 50 hours and then you might get your wind back and then you're ready to sprint again.

>> Yes. And I think that's what's going to happen because you're still going to realize and get the feeling of, "Oh my gosh, this debt is going down. I'm making extra payments." You're still going to get that high. You're still going to get that dopamine hit, but you're also going to, you know, keep your sanity intact at the same time.

And I'm telling you, that number is going to get to a point that 50 at some point is going to get to 20 or 30 and you're going to want to sprint again. >> You'll see some light at the end of the tunnel. And the other thing I would encourage you to do, Nick, spread out the sacrifice. So maybe it's not all overtime.

Maybe I'm willing to cut my expenses in this area and that creates the same amount of margin so I can keep up the progress I was throwing at the debt. So, have you looked at all of your expenses and done a pretty brutal judicious audit of like, hey, I don't need this.

So, I I um I have a I George, I

purchased your book um like a month ago and then I purchased the audio book cuz

I like listening to the book uh that you

that you wrote. But anyways, um um I I

started um I think just a couple days

ago I lo uh you you give um a free trial

for the um >> Every Dollar.

>> There you go. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh so I logged in and um um I've

been trying to incorporate it, but I do an Excel sheet um with >> Have you used the allnew Every Dollar like with the coaching recommendations?

Um, >> we just launched that. I think that's going to be your ticket to give you a little fuel because there's so and you can read I have a chapter in the book called Margin is breathing room where I lay out a whole bunch of ideas. Well, now the allnew Every Dollar does that for you and it's personalized based on what you have told us in your situation, your life, and what you're willing and able to do. So, I think that's going to really help you on this journey.

But I want to encourage you, this is a normal feeling.

>> Ah, and also your book, um, the margins

of error is, um, our breathing room is chapter 12. Yeah, I'm still on chapter eight. >> Okay, keep reading, my guy. >> I don't want to give it away.

I don't want to give it away. Everyone dies in the end. No, I'm just kidding. >> Well guys, >> that would be wild if that's how I ended the book.

Nobody dies. Only people find financial freedom. That's it. Hey, thanks so much for the call, man.

I love to hear the progress and how our stuff is is helping uh you get to the path on debt freedom. >> He's talking about real things though.

over lengths of time and the longer the length of time for you listening the harder it can be. Some people I mean we see on average yeah it's usually about a two year span you can knock it out but some people are on a longer uh you know course on this three years four years for Sam and I was seven and a half years and whatever whenever that moment hits the option is never to stop you can uh

change the intensity at which you're going and to George's point you can start to find trade-offs in other places in the budget uh another thing I like to do George is especially if you're a person who's side hustling and you're like if I deliver you know one more pizza or one more Instacart, I'm going to scream. Okay, quit that side hustle and get a new one. You know what I mean? Cuz there's always the side hustle that you dread and that you hate.

And even if it might be making a lot of money, just put it on break for a while and do something else. So, really get creative to keep things fresh in your mind. And another thing, yeah, if you need to scale it back and and jog for a little while, that is okay. You're still making progress.

The point is making progress is not excuses. It's one thing if you make an excuse and you stop. It's another thing if you're like, "Hey, this is really happening and I just need to slow down a little bit." Totally fine. I will never fault anybody or yell at anybody for that.

So, >> I love that.

Living how you've been living for the next 10 years or just sticking it out for a year or two of grind where you're like, "Oh my goodness." Cuz at least you're making progress. The other one is just mediocrity and giving giving up.

Yeah. >> So you you don't look at the baby steps as a past fail where it's like if I don't go all in then I'm not doing it at all. I'm going to hit a wall. If you get a B+ and you become debtree, but it took you 6 months longer than you wanted it to. >> Dude, you still won the like you did it.

>> That's right. You did. >> That's right. Meanwhile, some people are on the treadmill and they're just walking at a breezy 3.3. And I'm like, you need to click up the treadmill and see yourself sprint.

>> They've got a bunch of savings. They could pay off the debt, but I'm going to keep my match with the employer. I'm not going to cut my investing.

>> Not even breaking a sweat. Some of y'all need to break a sweat. >> Jade's out here judging you. I just want you to know. Ramsey is >> Get out of here. >> Get out of here.

>> That was a pretty awful accent. I got to I expected more. >> Get out of here.

>> The more you do it, the worse it's getting. And I like it. >> What if I go up octaves? Get out of here. >> Actually got better. You you got older and more kerogginly which made it hit in

a different way. I appreciate that.

>> Only you could have brought that out. George, >> thanks for playing. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

Our [Music]

[Music]

scripture of the day, Proverbs 11:24 and 25. One person gives freely yet gains

even more. Another withholds unduly but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper. Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. Paul Stanley of KISS said,

"Charity is not an option, it's an obligation." Left field quote from Paul Stanley, but we'll take it. >> Not what I would expect. >> The sentiment rings true. All right. Ann

is in South Carolina up next. Ann, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you for taking my phone call. Uh I am 7 I'm 71 years old,

retired. Uh my husband passed away last year. >> I still owe on the home of of 114,000.

I do have money in an IRA account.

People are telling me no, don't pay the house off, but I am taking money from that account every month to make the payment. So, I'm afraid I will run out of money over time.

So, I don't know what to do. Should I pay the house off? The interest rate is 1.99% or just keep taken away from

my IRA account.

>> How much is in that IRA?

>> Um total with money market IRA uh some

gold and silver 327,000.

>> Okay.

How are you living right now? You're needing to make the payment with the IRA money. Do you have other income?

>> I do. I have um social security.

>> How much is that?

>> It's 3,300.

>> And what's that mortgage payment every month? >> Around 1,400.

>> Okay. So, let's >> with taxes and everything.

>> Okay. So, if you paid off the mortgage, you would free up the principal and interest. So, it's not going to be Yes.

>> all 1400. Would it be closer to a,000?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Because you still got to pay insurance and taxes and all that good stuff. >> Correct. So, you free up $1,000, which means you don't need to tap into the IRA, but you've depleted the IRA down to, let's do the numbers for you here, down to 213,000 if you paid it off today.

>> So, the question is, could you still live a full life and have a great retirement with your social security plus 213,000 in the IRA that you now don't need to touch?

Uh well that's that's the question.

>> Yeah. So that well the if you don't need to touch it then the money is just going to sit there and grow. I would caution you to not keep it in money markets and gold and silver. I would have it in the market working for you to at least beat inflation.

>> Okay. >> And so you can work with it. Do you have a financial adviser that you trust right now? >> I do.

>> Okay. and he he was telling me to move everything or at least what I have in the money market over to where he is and

let him put it >> and actually invest it for you, >> right? Yeah. >> Okay. You said you're 71 and so if we ran the numbers out by the age of 80, if you just let that 213 sit there, you'd have over half a million dollars in that nest egg if you didn't touch it. >> Oh, that would be good. So, you're saying you're just going to live off social security, but you have no mortgage payment, and you're okay with that. You're still going to do all the things you want to do?

>> Well, probably not. But I'm I'm to the point that I've done pretty much everything I want to do, but my thing is, >> you're not skydiving or anything fun?

>> Emergency. >> Yeah. Do you have an emergency fund?

>> I have some, very little, though.

>> About 6,000 seven.

>> Okay. I would pull some from that money market and keep it in a high yield savings and keep it liquid and maybe have $20,000 as your emergency fund to just protect you from all the things that could happen in your life, the home maintenance and repairs and all that stuff, >> right? >> What's your health like?

>> It's pretty good. I do a little part-time job, but it's not, >> you know. >> Okay, that's what I was getting to. I was getting to maybe having a little part-time job would also help supplement the 30, what is it? 3,300 that you're getting from social and that way.

>> Yes. >> You know, that's just giving you a little bit more pad. Like George says, you have that emergency fund. I really like that plan for you because even if you took, let's say you took $1,000 a month from that IRA, you're likely never going to run out of money if you do that. It's going to grow faster than you're depleting it.

>> Okay? And so I just think the peace that

comes with having a paid for mortgage at your age is worth it regardless of the spread you could have made because your friends are like, "Wow, you have a low mortgage. You could just leave the money invested. You're way better off. Don't ever pay off that mortgage." Well, they don't pay your bills.

And so I'm not going to give them the 100% voting stock in your life. >> I would do what you feel is best for you, not just financially, but for you emotionally >> and spiritually. And for me, that's not owing anyone any money and having more freedom. >> And you're likely going to be okay.

You're not destitute. You don't have debt payments.

>> And I would say you're going to be I mean, you can crunch the numbers with a financial adviser. This is just a guy doing napkin math on a podcast. But it looks like you're going to have a a full and wonderful life paying off that mortgage and leaving the money. Invest it. Now, the key is invest it. If you leave it in savings, it could get depleted while you're still on this earth.

Okay. >> But if you take that 213 and invest it in the stock market, what we have seen over the last, you know, 50 years is about a 10% 11% return. And so your

money would double about every seven years if you do that. Hence my numbers of having half a million dollars if you just left it alone.

>> Okay. Well, that's to me I feel like

you're, you know, it would give me relief that this is paid for. I don't have to worry about it. >> I love it. And Ann, I tell you this like you were my mom. This is the same advice I would give to my own mother if she called in. And so I'm wishing you the best. You've done a really good job. I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband.

>> How long were you guys married? >> Thank you. 30.

>> Wow. >> 30 years. >> Yeah. It was It was not expected. So I'm

sorry. >> It was >> What was his name? >> Like his I'm sorry. >> What was his name?

>> Michael. >> Michael. >> Michael. Wow. >> Sweet. Well, and I'm I'm rooting for you in retirement, even if it's not the picture you had. >> Um, you you've done a good job preparing for the future, and I I hope that you have a a wonderful long life ahead of you and a great retirement. Let's move on to Alex in Raleigh, North Carolina.

What's going on, Alex?

>> Hey, George and Jade. I appreciate you guys talking to me. How are you? >> Sure. We're doing great.

>> Calling today because my wife and I, we're uh we're longtime Ramsay listeners. We're on baby steps six and seven. Uh the only debt that we have is our mortgage. >> Awesome. >> And calling today because um you know we have paid for vehicles with cash flow house improvements and my wife has decided that she wants to upgrade her Tahoe. And the discussion is, you know,

we can um she's talked about getting a loan and I have a bonus coming up here

shortly that would cover the amount of the loan. >> Mhm. Um, but my question is I'm trying to determine kind of what is how do you determine what the proper amount to spend on upgrading a vehicle is given our you know where we are in the baby steps and then also I you know I'm I'm feel pretty confident you guys are against getting a loan period.

>> I'm more concerned with the fact I'm less concerned about you spending cash on a Tahoe. I think that you will be reasonable on that. I'm more concerned with her even suggesting a loan. What's happened there? Why did she get so desperate?

>> That's that's the same same question I asked. You know, it's um like I said, it's a nice vehicle. It runs fine. And um >> what's it going to cost to upgrade?

>> It's going to be anywhere between 15 and

$19,000 is what she's suggesting for the

loan. Um the trade in value on it or the

sale sale value of it's about 20 grand.

And like I said, we we finished up our, you know, our fiscal year with the company I'm with here recently and I, you know, have a bonus coming. Feel confident that it will cover >> the amount of that loan. I'm I'm of the opinion, though, let's just wait till that money. >> You're not getting a loan.

I'm telling you right now, y'all are not getting a loan. Alex, >> that's just a value in our house that we don't borrow money. So, it's an easier conversation, >> right? And it's >> What's your household income >> that we've we're we're a little over two.

>> Okay.

you spend cash for it. My parameters on this are kind of, you know, it's all about the financially smart adult checklist. And it's five things to go through. You want to make sure you're a p person who's budgeting, you're a person who's paying off your debt, you're a person who's saving, right? You've got your emergency fund, you're doing your 15%, you're a person who values generosity, and you're a person who carries the proper insuranceances.

If that's true, which it is, you're on baby step six. You can do this, but you cannot consider debt for this.

>> Get the car, but do it the right way, my friend. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 139. Solve for Peace Instead of Screwing Around With Debt | August 21, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:11:36 |

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From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work

that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour hit on Ramsey Networks. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888255225.

Jim is in Connecticut. Hi Jim, how are you? >> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so I have a question. Um, I've been listening for some time now and I've haven't heard this question answered.

Um, so basically my we have about a 90

about $90,000 in student debt and we

have the money to pay it off.

>> Good. >> But my question is so I have a friend

that's in real estate and he basically is telling me to get into real estate with that money rather than paying off my student debt. So essentially like you know putting down 20% on maybe two,

three, maybe four properties for example using that money to cash flow the payment on the um student loan and then

obviously build equity and wealth for whatever our kids for the family whatever.

>> Yeah. >> What do you think about that? >> Um well um I did something similar in my

20s and I went broke.

Mhm.

>> So, I'm not a fan. I think your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. I now own I now own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate.

>> Um, but I did not do it the way you're talking about. I paid cash for it as I went a little bit at a time and it's gone way up in value while I've owned it. >> Um, >> yep. So, uh u the the problem to break the

theory down is debt equals risk.

>> More debt equals more risk.

Debt equals reduced cash flow in real

estate because you got to pay the payments. More debt equals no cash flow

in real estate. So, when you have a tenant that pays you just a little bit more than the house payment because you only put down a little bit on the house,

when the you add up all of the repairs

and uh the vacancies and the tenants

that don't pay, which happens occasionally, when you add all of that together, you are actually losing money

>> on a leveraged piece of real estate like you're describing. And so unless you're

going to feed these three houses to the tune of about 500 bucks a month each average about $6,000 a year each with the numbers you're giving me >> um you're not going to be able to keep them and so they do not become a blessing then. And the idea that they're going to cash flow and pay off the student loans it's actually mathematically not going to happen. Um and again I I'm I'm 65 years old. I started doing real estate when I in 1978 when I was 18.

So, I did I didn't just invent this and get on TikTok.

So, it's not that it's against real estate. You know, you're not sitting there saying, "Oh my gosh, it's a terrible investment. The idea of real estate's terrible, but the way at which you do it >> is really important." And and I think the hard thing is too, Jim, you know, a lot of people set up these scenarios.

>> And you know, for some people it's like, okay, yeah, maybe it could kind of work out, but it that means everything has to be perfect. Everything from the market, the tenant, the house. You could get in this stuff and you tear down a wall and there's mold. You can't put a tenant in for 12 months until you do X, Y, and Z and you've bought it. I mean, like, it just there are so many factors to it

that it never works out perfectly. It just doesn't because there's just too many things up in the air. And so, um, >> so I would I would pay off your student loans, honey. >> Yes. Pay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because essentially the way he was explaining it's kind of like, you know, hey, you paid off your student loans, you know, congratulations. Down the back, here's your paper that you paid it off rather than like, oh, hey, you bought whatever, say one property for

example, you know, like, no, that's now that's like a bigger, you know, good job in a sense. >> Yeah. In in a s in a sense you said okay

>> in the world of finance we have a thing called opportunity cost.

>> When you take your $90,000 and you do one thing with it you lose the opportunity of doing the other thing with it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And so the way to look at that is kind of do a little reverse engineering.

Let's pretend you didn't have student loans.

>> Wow. That feel good. Would you go borrow

>> $90,000 to put down payments on houses?

>> No. Yeah, that's why I knew you would.

Yeah, >> which is exactly what you're proposing if you look at the balance sheet of what you're proposing. So, uh, the data tells

us that people most often build wealth not doing your friend's plan. instead

paying off your student loans, using the increased cash flow and the increased freedom to start saving, paying off everything, being 100% debtree. A and

then let's let's pile up a little cash and get our first property with cash and then get our second property with cash.

And when you get about the fourth or fifth one, now you've got real cash flow coming because there's no payments. >> Yeah. And what's funny is even from a net worth perspective, >> goes way up. Well, that well his friend's way it goes way down because you're borrowing on a $200,000 house and you have $90,000 of student loan debt.

You know what I'm saying? You keep putting yourself deeper in the hole even from just a net worth perspective if you're just looking at the math too. >> Yeah. >> And Jim, always too remember this.

>> An Excel sheet, a formula is never going

to factor in the emotion of peace. And when you don't owe anyone anything, even a student loan, there is a level of peace there from an emotional spiritual perspective that is not calculated in an Excel file. And I'm telling you, when people become debtree, they pay off their houses, even in an extreme sense, when people stay on debtree, you know, the debtree stage here and they're completely debtree, their house and everything. They literally have no payments.

They never look back and say, "I so regretted that. I wish I still had all this debt and I was living how I was living. missed out on the opportunity to be highly leveraged and stressed out, >> right? I mean, like there there is. So, there's a level of peace there that I think is really important to solve for. And when you're just running and gunning and trying to do this whole thing to look good on a quote unquote balance sheet and what you have to say for yourself, I would swap peace every time.

You're going to have time, Jim, to be able to do this. You're going to I believe you will have time to save up, go buy your first fixer uper, and get in the real estate game. That's great. When you do it all with cash, it's going to just take longer and there's way more delayed gratification. But what that equals is a level of peace and sleep at night versus just that that risk factor

that's so real. >> Full disclosure, Rachel knows what she's talking about. That's what her husband does. >> Winston's in the real estate business. >> Well, and he does flips, but with cash.

>> He buys property and he does it with cash and he runs my portfolio as well.

And we do it with cash. And um you know

>> and it didn't start off pretty I mean like you know the first couple it was like a condo. >> The first one was a little one-bedroom condo and it was pretty stinky.

>> Pretty stinky little condo and that was y'all's first property. >> But what's crazy is you know you put the money in, you go and work it, you fix it and then again he's in more of the not Yeah. And he's not in the hold business but but even some of these flips and I've told you this. I'm like you know one or two of them if the market kind of slows down for about four or five weeks and you're holding on we don't think much about it.

his friends that kind of do the same thing that do have payments to the bank, they're like, "God, when is this market going to pick up?" And they there's a level of stress there. And I'm like, I don't know.

You're fine. You're fine. >> You want to lose money in real estate, become a motivated seller.

>> That's the best way you lose money in real estate.

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[Applause] Martin's in Los Angeles. Hey Martin, how are you? >> I'm doing great. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, so I've come into a um, you know,

I've got a fair amount of, uh, debt. Um,

and but I'm also, you know, there's some good things going on. I've uh, you know, I've got a job where I'm making really good money and a lot of room for upward

mobility. And so far, my performance at the new job has been, uh, pretty fantastic. So, I, you know, I think there's a lot to, to look at, you know, positively about the future. Um, but the

weight of the debt is really, it's

really hitting me. Um, so I make about

um, you know, I I've got this job recently. I make about 200,000 a year.

>> Cool. What are you doing?

>> Uh, I'm in sales. >> Good for you. What are you selling? >> And um, I sell um medical devices.

>> Great. Good job. Good. Good position.

Well done. And how much debt you got?

>> Uh, so I have about 20,000 in student

loans. Uh, 20,000 in credit card debt.

Um, which uh I I used to help pay for

school cuz I I got hit pretty hard during CO. Um, so >> how much you owe on your car?

>> Um, about 30, but I get a I got an 800

900 month stipend for it. Um, >> doesn't matter. You get that whether you have a payment or not.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. And so, um, what other debt? 2030. What else? Um

that is uh that's it.

>> What did you make last year? >> Um >> uh so >> before you had this job, what'd you make? >> Uh so I made 150. The year before that I made uh 85.

>> So I've had I've gotten promoted twice in the last two years.

>> So if you could live on 85, you could be debtree in a year.

>> I didn't have the car payment um back

then. I didn't I didn't have the uh the credit card payment then. If you could live on 85, you could be debtree in a year. >> Okay. All right.

>> I mean, really, here's the thing. 200

minus 85 is 115.

>> Yeah.

>> And you only have $70,000 in debt.

>> Okay. >> Is that right?

>> Yeah. I think with taxes and and putting about 12% into the 401k >> um stuff doing the 401k >> temporarily till you get this dad gum mess you made cleaned up.

>> Okay. >> Completely focus on clearing the debt.

When I picked up the phone, Martin, I heard amazing amounts of stress in your voice.

You were sighing, breathing hard, all kinds of anxiety indications in your verbal patterns when you started talking about the debt. When you talked about the job, you started lighting up again and your voice pattern changed.

Okay. >> Okay. >> And you said, "If I could, I'm drowning." You the words you were using and I'm drowning in this debt. And so I

want you to react to this debt like your

life depends on clearing it because if

you could make $200,000 a year and you had no payments, you can be wealthy, sir.

>> Okay? But if you hang around with stupid car payments, stupid credit cards, and

stupid student loans, and you keep them around like they're a freaking pet, and you try to ease your way out of this with the kind of money you're making and try to work some kind of thing where you scam the system, you're still going to have that stress in your voice.

>> Okay?

>> Get it.

>> Martin, what makes you think you can't?

If you if last year you were doing 85, what's the hesitation?

It's not that so much. I've I've put, you know, I put a fair amount of debt on um in the last year and I mean just you know stupid purchases and things like that. M um but it's it's not so much I

can't it's more just kind of trying to figure out like what do you think is feasible like what just understanding like what would you do you know I'm I'm new to this you know like again >> so if you're making 200 and you stopped your 401k contributions what would your take-home pay be >> per month >> um probably around

>> um 10 a month

>> how much is your rent or mortgage >> rent is 3 3,000. That's the really tough one. And that's, you know, it's not like it's it's not like it's crazy.

>> Yeah. It's 30% of your take home world.

>> Something's wrong, Martin.

>> 200 minus 120.

>> 10 a month is 120. You don't have $80,000 worth of withholding.

>> It's Isn't it Isn't it about 50,000 withholding at that point?

>> Well, 50, not 120. federal and then you

have another 20 20 20ish in uh

>> No, you got >> uh state California maxes out their rich people tax is 15%.

>> Okay, >> cuz they're trying to run off all the rich people. >> Wait, 15%. >> Yeah, California has a rich people tax of 15% of your income.

>> I thought it would be more than that. >> No, that's it. >> But that's more than any that's more than any other two states put together.

But yeah, >> but that's addition to your I mean so it's >> Yeah. And then and then you've got then you've got your federal, but your federal is not even going to be 50,000 in this case. >> So you you you know you need to get

really get above your numbers here and start working them through. So I think free in a year what 30% federal for him.

No >> at 200 >> it would be 30% bracket but it's not the full thing. That's right. It's a marginal income. I know I know. Yeah.

Yeah. Bracket is not the amount.

>> Spoke. I know. I know. I mean it's so it's it's about 26% is what

>> um >> of the above the bracket. Yeah.

>> Including California.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Believe me. So yeah, the uh because these are incremental marginal tax brackets. They're not taxed at the tax bracket. So that's the point. So anyway, you need to get into this and figure it out and sit down and go, I'm going to be on beans and rice, rice and beans. I'm going to stop the stupid purchases.

three grand worth of rent for a single guy that's broke. I don't know, man. I I may be looking at that, too. And so, um, but for sure in LA, for sure, I'm going to work my butt off and I'm going to do nothing but work.

That's all I'm going to do. No vacations, no buying crap. You are broke. >> Quit acting like you're rich.

You're not broke. You're not rich. You're broke. Act like it >> and pay down this debt and be done with it.

Because you reach over and knock off all those credit cards in two or three months, which you could do. You probably do it in about four months, actually, three months, something like that. Then you're free to knock out that student loan and then reach over and knock that car out. Think about how your what your budget looks like when you don't have any of those payments anymore.

This is where you've got to go to. And so what the plan is is stop everything temporarily and attack the debt. Listing your debts smallest to largest. pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one with a vengeance.

figure out a way you can't do it. Figure out a way you can do it. That's the

point. And so, stop your 401k temporarily. Stop your vacations. Stop your happy hours. Stop all this junk you're spending money on. Unplug stupid Amazon and go get out of debt. And then

when you're free, you're going to make a lot of money and you'll be able to stack cash really quick because you'll be used to living on less than you make. And that changes everything. You're you're resetting the wires in your brain.

>> Yeah. And it is a it is a rewiring because I think our natural tendency always is to be moving forward, meaning

like bigger, better. You start with the starter house, you get the bigger like like our life, you know, you get promotions. Everything that we're used to is gradually increasing in life. And

when you do this and you actually pause your life and go backwards in lifestyle,

it kind of mess it'll mess with you because you're not used to that, right?

The celebration of moving forward always, oh, I got a bigger job. He's getting paid twice as much, you know, as he used to. And it should feel like, oh, well, I should have twice as of a better life. Not with this, not when you have debt. And so there is a rewiring of what

feels like going backwards and that natural tendency is not to like it. I don't want to go backwards. I should be moving forwards. Yeah. >> But when you're doing it so on purpose, it's and time goes fast, too. That's my other thing. It feels like Christmas is about to be here. And I feel like we just had Christmas, right? Like you you think about how fast this time goes.

It's going to go quick. It's not forever. It's literally for a snapshot of a moment in time that you're going to do this. And it sets up your whole trajectory going forward with your finances. [Music]

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Jim and Sarah are in Michigan. Hi guys, how are you?

>> Pretty well, Mr. Ramsay. Thank you for taking our call. We're anxious to talk to you, sir. >> Our honor. How can we help?

>> Well, we've been married for 40 years and we've um >> gone through a lot of finances successfully. We've uh managed to save a

substantial amount of money. And uh about 3 years ago um I acquired a 30foot

sailboat and uh it cost roughly $6,000 a year to

own and operate.

>> What did you pay for the 30ft sailboat?

>> Uh well my neighbor gave it to me or I should say Jesus gave it to me.

>> Free >> to be more accurate.

>> He gave you a 30-foot sailboat free.

>> Jesus did. >> Yes, sir. >> Three. We have three sailboats for given to us for free. Three.

>> Okay. You currently own only one?

>> No, we own three. >> You currently own three sailboats.

>> Jesus. >> Three free sailboats.

>> And And you said you said you had piled up a substantial >> Hey, Jim. You said you had piled up a substantial amount of money. What's your all's net worth?

>> Not that much. >> Um about 3.7 million.

Sarah, >> not that much. She said, "Not that much." That's pretty good, Sarah.

>> Well, I listen to you every day for two hours and we could do better, you know.

>> Okay. So, what are the three sailboats worth?

>> The cars all together. The cars and the sailboats. >> No, I asked what the sailboats are worth. >> The sailboats altogether are worth $7,000.

And we have a camper worth $500.

>> Okay. So, a 30foot sailboat is worth

2,000 of the seven or 3,000 of the seven. Jim, does that sound right to you? >> 5,000 of the seven. >> 5,000. Okay. So, you got two junkers and one good one. Okay. So, you have a $5,000 sailboat, but you want to spend $6,000 a year to keep a $5,000 thing

alive. I'm confused.

>> I am, too. >> No, Jim. Um, >> Jim, we already figured out what you want to do, Sarah.

>> Jim, why do you want to spend 6,000 to keep something that's 5,000 alive?

>> Well, that's just the normal cost of uh

marinas. Yeah. Marina slips and then >> launching and recovery in the spring and fall. >> Yeah. >> And you know, minor incidental.

>> It's not that much, but I kind of expected that when you said you were spending 6,000 on it that it'd be worth 30,000 or something.

Well, you know, it's it's worth what you can get on it on a good day, but you know, it could easily be worth 2020$ 20,000. >> No, no. $5,000. $5,000. And we

>> Wait, wait, wait a minute. There's a bit of a discrepancy here, boys and girls.

>> Yes, sir. >> Y'all are fun. Um, >> well, you know, with old sailboats is what you can get for it on a >> No, really, Jim. The stinking thing has a market value. Seriously, it's the range of value is not between five and 30. It's one or the other.

$5,000. >> Where did you get that number, Sarah?

You sound so sure.

>> The insurance. >> What? >> The the insurance.

>> Insurance does not determine value.

>> Okay, then I'm wrong. Okay. Uh it is between5 and $12,000 possibly. But

>> if you put a sign on it, you might sell it for 12,000.

>> No, you can't sell it. It's so bad.

People can't give them away.

>> Well, they did to you. Um That's the problem.

>> Yes, sir. >> And and so far he's spent $30,000.37

3786 cents on a a boat that people give

to you. 30 over $30,000 on a

>> You've had it five years.

>> Um about three. This is my third summer

with it. >> And he spent $30,000.37.

>> Hey y'all, but we're talking like five I don't know. Okay. 500 bucks a month.

There >> there's two issues here. Okay.

>> I don't know. >> Um >> Jim, we're not going to make Sarah happy. Okay.

>> Sarah's not going to be happy with a sailboat. >> Sarah's not happy with.7.

>> We know that. We know that Sarah's not going to be happy with a with a sailboat. So then the question is Sarah

um if you take the value of the sailboat

and and what you spend on it and you burn it in the middle of the floor, does it change your life when you have $3.7 million if you take $6,000 and throw it out the window as you drive along the interstate? No, it does not change your life. So this is not a deal breakaker.

You're not going to be poor and on food stamps because of Jim's sailboat, Sarah.

you're fine. Uh he you can afford to do this. It's not a big deal. Um but Jim,

you probably do need to think about I

mean we're sit Are you still sitting on the other two boats as well?

>> Yes. >> I I can only count one other sailboat except for a model sailboat in the living room. >> No, no, no. We have another boat.

Another boat. >> Oh, another boat. But not a sailboat.

>> Well, yes, we have another boat. >> Oh, you mean the rowboat? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yes, sir. We have a 12T aluminum boat. Yeah, that's true. >> Okay. >> And a camper. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> And um All right. And so >> other than mess with gym, Sarah, what are your hobbies?

>> Um well, actually, to be honest with you, I'd actually like a kitchen sink.

Um >> Oh, because Jim >> It's going to cost you a kitchen sink.

Jim, remodel the whole freaking kitchen as your tradeout.

Yeah. All right.

>> You two cheap skates are made for each other. Y'all are fun. I love y'all.

You're great. You listen. $3.7 million

if it's growing at 10% is growing at a rate of $370,000 a year. And we're having a discussion here about an aluminum 14 ft rowboat and

a kitchen sink. Y'all, >> yeah. >> You need to back up about three notches.

pan your camera back and start enjoying some of this money. Now, being tight and smart is what got you here, but now you need to enjoy some of it. And if Sarah, if $6,000 makes Jim happy, it's it's

$6,000. You can afford it. Okay. And Jim, if getting rid of the aluminum rowboat and the camper and the odd sailboat makes her happy, get rid of them and remodel her kitchen, too. You guys can afford to do all of that, but don't major in minors is stealing your piece. Okay.

>> Well, when she says remodel, we have a three-year-old home

>> countertop and a triple Okay. All I'm saying is buy her a sink.

>> All I'm saying is she wants me to tear that out and go down and get her a commercial sink like you find in the kitchen at McDonald's. >> And I don't want you to do it. I want you to pay somebody to do it.

Well, >> they're good. They're highra steel.

They're high grade steel. >> Yeah, like kind of like that aluminum boat. >> It's high grade. >> Use the aluminum from the aluminum boat.

Make you a sink. >> We're going to recycle.

>> Kill two birds with one stone.

>> Hey guys. >> Well, listen. You're stepping over dollars. You're stepping over dollars trying to pick up nickels.

>> And it's stealing your fund. It's stealing your fund. So there's stuff that my wife buys that I do not understand, but she gets joy from it.

And what I do is it what I do get joy from is her getting joy. There's stuff that I buy uh that she has absolutely

she thinks it's stupid when I buy it, but she doesn't hassle me about it because we have the money and I get joy from it and she wants to see me get joy.

So let's major in you guys giving each other some joy starting going forward here. Okay. You knew it's a funny call.

He's like, "We've been married 40 years." And she's like, "41. 41.

>> We ain't got any money. We're broke. It's only 3.7 million.

>> We didn't do good. We didn't do good."

>> They were funny. >> Y'all are great. That was so fun.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Hey, give each other some grace and love and to the tune of about 30,000 bucks each and just go blow some money on your 41year marriage. What a wonderful thing

to do. And it won't you won't even know it happened. You'll still have 3.7 million.

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That was the most fun I've had in a while. >> What? That call >> those two were a hoot. >> They were funny. >> If y'all want to call up and argue on the air in front of like millions of people, we would have you anytime.

>> Yeah, we had a we had a segment for a little while with the personalities called Settle the Debate >> and people would call in and do Yeah.

But they were they were very entertaining. That was >> They were fun. God, man. And I mean, just going to dinner with those two would be a hoot. Arguing about what you're ordering. It's like, that's too expensive. >> Don't get the cheaper chicken. >> Don't do that. >> I love it. Jenna is in San Antonio. Hi,

Jenna.

>> Hi guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure.

>> I was calling because I'm looking for some guidance. So, a little backstory.

Um, my dad sold us our me and my older brother, our childhood home back in 2021. and like the stipulation was that he could still live on the property um and not have to pay like rent or utilities. And we my older brother and I

rent out the house. And we make about $3,400 a month in profit off the rent.

And my dad right now, he's a single parent uh growing up and everything. So, he didn't save for retirement. He lives off social security. And he says money is tight right now.

And he uh reached out to us and asked if we could give him $400 from the profit of their rent each month. And my older brother was like, "Sure, 100%." And I just like did not feel good about it. I was like, "I think we need to look at your finances first, like figure out why money is tight." And then like draw some boundaries so it's not like every year like, "Oh, I need 500, 600 and it add up and everything." And I recognize like none of this money is coming out of my own pocket. It's like purely just profit.

And I don't know if I sound like a brat as a child by not just giving it to him. And so I'm just looking for guidance on that.

>> Yes. So we did a so he sold it to or we

did a parent to child transfer and all he wanted was 50,000 and then we took over the rest of the mortgage

but like me and my brother are on title and loan like it's legally our house.

>> Yeah. And so what was at the time that

the mortgage plus 50,000 at the time this happened was how much?

uh 450,000.

>> So he had a mortgage of 400 and you gave him 50,000 cash.

>> Well, we did a cash out refinance, so we gave him 50,000 from that.

>> Oh, okay. And so the two of you have a

$450,000 mortgage now. And at the time that he

sold you the house for $450,000, what was the home worth?

>> Uh like 1.3.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, and now he doesn't have any money.

>> He says, "Yeah, money is tight, >> but I mean, he doesn't have any money." He had 50,000 bucks, >> and that was many years ago, and he's gone through that and he lives on the property.

>> Mhm. >> Uh, humbly.

>> Yes. >> After he gave you a half a million dollars, he's not very wise. He shouldn't have given you that money. He shouldn't have given you this house. >> I know.

>> I mean, not not I mean, he his first obligation is to pay his own bills. His second obligation or his second the only after you're paying your bills and have a plan for your bills do you start giving stuff away.

>> Yes, I think he had that plan. I think things I'm not sure. That's why I wanted to look at his finances. But I I look I look at it because the house is worth a lot of money and then I feel like I don't know. >> It was worth a lot of money when he gave it to you.

>> Mhm.

>> He gave y'all a million dollar house for half a million.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. And and and Yeah. And but and yet he ran out of money. So the whole thing he's a single dad. He hasn't saved for retirement. Bull crap. because he would have had a half a million dollars in the account living off of that and not been

calling you if he had just simply sold this house.

>> Correct. And he's told us that he regrets it and >> yeah, >> hindsight it's 2020, but >> was dumb.

>> Yeah. And so I assume he has absolutely no other money that you know of. It's not like he's got a million dollars in the bank from something else.

>> No, I think he has some being I I don't know because I haven't looked at his finances and so I was like, "Hey, if we give you this $400 a month, like let's look sit down and look at your finances, see where where money is going because like you don't have a car to 73." >> And how is his health?

>> Great. He looks like he's 55.

>> Okay.

All right. >> And is he's retired, not working, Jenna?

>> Correct. >> Yeah. um you you you don't have an obligation

at all morally, ethically, spiritually,

anything. But if someone had given me a half a million dollar gift and in return they're asking for $200 cuz 400 200 of

it's yours 200 of it's your brothers.

I would I wouldn't think anything about giving them $200.

So, you wouldn't do it? >> I would do it.

>> Oh, okay. >> I I I don't think it' be a problem at all. I mean, he gave you a half a million dollars. He stupidly gave you a

half a million dollars that he shouldn't have done. Then he wouldn't be having this trouble.

>> Yes. >> So, I don't know what was going on in their in your >> Well, I'm curious, Jenna, why $400 for him? To your point, wanting just to look. I'm just curious if $400, you know, does that change? Well, what >> he's probably living on social security, living in the shed out back. That's what it sounds like,

>> right? >> Yeah. I'm not sure. That's why I was like I didn't know if I was in the right to ask him like to >> Well, I mean, you be not not to ask him to justify you doing this, but just to

make sure he's okay.

>> He might need 800.

I'm just worried. My biggest worry is that he is giving it is going to give it to my little brother because my little brother just is doesn't do anything. And so, >> okay, that's a fair that's where I want that. >> That's new information that you never brought up until now.

>> Sorry. >> That's okay. But now, I mean, so I think you can address that with your dad. Dad, I want to make sure you're okay. I'm happy to do this, but I'm not happy to give my little brother money because he sits on his butt.

Mhm. >> If you're going to give it to him, no, I'm not going to do it. And if if if you'll let me look at your stuff with you and make sure you're okay, I want to make sure you're okay. You gave us this wonderful gift all these years ago. Um and little brother got cut out of that gift, by the way, didn't he?

>> On paper, yes. But my dad is now coming

back and saying that, "Hey, you need to split the house three ways between um >> No, >> I don't think he wasn't respon or financially responsible at the time of the sale. So that's why he wasn't included." >> Yeah. No, we're not redoing the deal.

I've been I've been dealing with this house and now I'm dealing with you. No deal. The deal's done. But again, you see how haphazard this whole thing was.

when y'all did this deal, it shouldn't have happened. It was a bad deal

>> for your dad. And he didn't think it through well.

>> And and now he's trying to come back and slide the brother in. And now he's trying to come back and slide 400 bucks out because he should have never done this in the first place.

He didn't have the half a million dollars to give away. He was too broke to be giving away half million dollar gifts.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And so now, yeah, I I I would be

concerned that he's okay because his judgment's bad. We've established that.

I want to make sure he's okay on loving act. Yeah. I'm happy to do this to help you, Dad. >> And I'm not going to put the little brother on the deed. Period.

>> Y >> that's done. >> And the money is not going to the little brother. But if all is said and he says, "No, it's not. This is for me to take care of him." Yeah. >> I mean, he gave you a half million dollars, you give him $200.

>> Zippy, it doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, I would do that. Definitely do that.

But, uh, the the but step back two

notches and y'all as a family learn your lessons from all the ridiculous things

that have been done wrong in this whole thing. So, and now I'm really worried about you and your older brother being partners in this thing. And now little brother decides he's going to go into orbit about this. Yeah, this is this is this is not clear. It's not good. So bad deal

all the way around. Bad deal,

man. So, um, >> but Jenna, I don't think you're being a brat for having these questions. You asked that at the beginning and I think you're having some like critical thinking. >> Yeah, you you've got some concerns that are valid. >> Yeah. >> And I would look into those concerns, but I want to do it through the lens of love. I love my dad and he was generous to me and I want to make sure he's okay.

>> Not of, oh, I'm not going to give him 200 bucks. That is bratty if you're going to do that. But but you know I if if he's going to give it to the little brother and the little brother's buying weed with it, no, we're not doing that.

I'm I'm with you on that.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, my daughter, bestselling author, is my co-host. Open phones at88255225.

[Music] Emily is in Maryland. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Um, so my question um revolves, so a

little background about me. My husband and I are both accountants. Um, we

make about 10k take-home pay right now after we put in about 10% of our

earnings into um 401k and, you know,

insurance and everything. >> And how much is the 401k and the insurance a month?

Um, I don't know exactly, but for me,

for my husband, I don't know. But for me, I take home about 48

um 45. >> Yeah. But your take-home pay, real take-home pay, as you know, is not after insurance and 401k. Real take-home pay is after taxes.

>> Um, right. So, this is after taxes.

Like, this is >> It's after taxes and after 401k and after health insurance.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So what I'm trying to ascertain is what your real take-home pay is. Okay. Go ahead. >> Right. Yeah. This is the paycheck that we get. Um so the the dilemma we have

right now is that we have we are living in our house right now which we bought 10 about 10 years ago. A foreclosed property needed a lot of work done. Um but we bought it because it was cheap and over the years we have been. So I've

always tried to live below our means and we have no debt. We have savings. We have an emergency fund. So, we're kind of on the step where now it was time to pay off our home.

>> Um, but recently I was working at a

school where my kids were going for free. It was a private school, but both my kids have learning issues and so we had to take them out of the private school and now they're in the public school in our local neighborhood which are not that great. The dilemma we have right now is that we want to move to a better school district, but the

obviously the house prices, everything that we're looking at is really going to put us in a in a position where we're going to end up living paycheck to paycheck. Um, and

what so like we we don't know whether we

should make that move or not because our house is more than enough for us. We're living comfortably in it. It's only the schools that are we're not happy with.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know the math yet, but if your statement is true

that you're going to be broke because you made the move and paycheck to paycheck with no margin, that obviously means you can't afford it, if that statement's true. So, but you might be an accountant who's super tight. So, I don't know. Um the um it sounds like

that your after tax take-home pay would

probably be around 12,000 or a little bit more per month, not counting

in more 401k if you took added 401k and

health insurance back in. I think that's going to add a couple thousand a month to your take-home pay. Does that sound right?

>> Um yeah, I think we'd be around 11K.

>> I think you'd be around 12K. I don't think you're doing all that for 500 bucks a month. What's your household income? Well, no, I know you're not. You told me your household income. Okay. So, no, you're you're you're not. That's not 500 bucks. So, uh unless you're not putting much in your 401k.

>> I know that I I put about 12% and my husband puts about 10%. So, um I don't

really know what that comes out to be. I haven't looked at it in a while because >> Well, the average would be 11% between the two, but let's just call it 10%. and you make $100,000 a year, that's $10,000 a month or $10,000 $11,000. So 401k

alone is $1,000 a month plus health insurance is going to be another $1,000 a month.

So yeah, I'm right. It's 12,000. Okay.

>> Something like that. Yeah, I guess. I guess. Um but what we get in hand right

now is about 10k and uh

>> I know. Okay.

>> Right. But what I'm what I'm I'm trying to say is that if the mortgage comes out to be like between 3500 to 4,000, which is what the houses we're looking at right now, >> if you put that on a 15-year fix, that's going to be about a fourth of your real take-home pay. That's going to 3K would

be a fourth would be about your max.

>> Could you find something for 3K, Emily, in that area?

Um, so we have about 400k equity in our

house, our house. Um, and what we're looking at is obviously to upgrade. I know that that's kind of going above our >> Well, don't upgrade to go paycheck to paycheck. Can you getting can you get a smaller house in the nicer area just to get the kids in the school?

um we can but long term I feel like it wouldn't be a good move because we wouldn't be able to you know have the same kind of equity in that house or like be be able to sell it because we do want to have like just this >> so Emily so this is okay so it's a values conversation at this point because as you're saying you're going to live paycheck to paycheck if you make this move because you're already assuming you're going to upgrade houses to get a bigger house than what you guys are currently >> and the reason you're getting a bigger house is not for your kids.

>> Yeah. So there's a value system conversation of do do am I val am I going to do what I have to do for the kids that's number one and we'll figure out the math and live somewhere smaller to because that's our value that's our number one value or is it we want to have a place where our family can grow in a home and get x y and z you know type of house and if that's the value then go there but one has to trump the other for the math you can't do both and it sounds like the kids are the number one Emily right and so for now I would as a mom with three kids I get that like you want them in in a great space where they're going to thrive and it's awesome.

I mean, you can your income's going to go up over time, but if you need to make the move, it sounds like you can't do both. >> Yeah. Don't strap yourself to buy a bigger house that you want and blame it on the kids.

>> It's not that's not fair. >> Yeah. Um, so if you want to buy a house for the kids, move over in the school district >> and it's going to be a nicer area. So it's going to be a smaller home, right?

>> And it's going to go up in value. >> Yeah. So the equity, >> you're not going to lose equity. You're going to do you're going to increase your equity because you're in a better area. >> So >> maybe an older, smaller home, but it's in a better area for the kids. And that's >> and we did this for the kiddos. Yeah.

And and that's the situation. So, but the the formula that we use, the reason I was poking around on your stuff, your interest, your take-home pay so hard is

a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed is what we suggest because

that gives you room where you are not living paycheck to paycheck. You've got margin in there to save for Christmas, save for the next car, save for a trip.

You've got margin in there and you can start putting 15% of your income into retirement at that point. Um, but if you go over 25% of your real take-home pay, and you're calling take-home pay,

um, uh, I'm talking about, when I say take-home pay, we're talking about only taxes and only taxes coming out, and

you've got at least $2,000 in non-ax

things coming out of your checks. So, you're dealing with about a $12,000

take-home pay the way we're defining it after taxes, maybe a little bit more, which would mean 14th of that, which is $3,000.

And that's what we would recommend on a 15-year fixed rate. And 15-year fixed rates just went down a tiny bit this week. Just a little bit. Not much, but just a little bit. So, that's how we get at it. But the thing you've got to do, Rachel's right, is you have to separate these discussions and keep it very clear what the primary goal is. What's the primary value we're trying to solve for

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Ashley in Colorado. We are the parents of three young kids and have a YouTube channel which has been monetized for just over a year. Right now, the funds are sitting in the bank in our names.

We'd like to know how to grow that money wisely, but also keep some liquid. Our plan is not to give them any access to it until each of them reaches the age of 25. We are longtime listeners and really value your guidance.

This is the uh we've had this kind of question. I've had it three or four times in the last few months about monetizing on the internet >> accounts and stuff. It's like really >> well, we don't know what it is. You can monetize on YouTube and it's a small amount of money or it could be a million dollars. And so I don't know what we're dealing with here. Um, so the best

antidote to money screwing up your kids

is for you to not have screwed up your kids.

Money does not screw up kids. Money reveals that your kids are already screwed up.

And so you can't put it in a you can't keep it away from them long enough for them to not be screwed up. 25 is not a

magic number. And so I'm going to teach them responsibility, generosity. I'm

going to teach them wise spending. I'm going to teach them saving. I'm going to teach them work ethic. Uh age appropriately. We don't know how old the children are. She says young kids. I don't know what that means. Um and so but age appropriately so that when this money does come to their hands, they see it as what it is, a responsibility.

not that they are a four-year-old who hit the lottery. And um so and you turn

them into a trust fund baby of some kind. So having said all of that, I'm going to be really really I'm going to spend 90% of my calorie burn on this on making sure the kids are okay.

>> Mhm. >> First and foremost, then we can talk about the technicality of the investment. Okay. The only way you keep it away from them until age 25 is if you put it in a trust.

If it's in anything else, it goes to them at age 21.

And you can't stop it unless it's in a trust. So, you're going to have to go see an estate plan.

>> And it sounds like it sounds like the funds are in our names, which makes me sound like the parents' names.

>> Yeah. Well, it has to be in your name because the kid can't you can't put a a child can't do a contract. And so, you if you open a bank account for a kid, it's an utma, uniform transfer to minors act. And that means that it's in the parents name or it's in the kid's name, but the parent is the custodian.

>> Yeah. But I don't know if the kids are getting paid for the YouTube channel. Do you know what I mean? It could just be the parents getting paid. >> I don't know. Okay. That that could Well, that could be that would solve it. That would solve you. Give it to them whenever you wanted if it's your money. >> Yeah. >> If it's your money legally, if it's not their money, uh, legally, uh, or morally

for that matter. So, anyway, what would I do with it? Uh, I would make sure that some of it was available for their first car and that they add some to that. Um,

and so that's the part that's liquid. I would make sure there's some money available for fun. uh a small amount of some kind. And again, we don't know how old these kids are and what how this is going to unfold, but this is what we did with Rachel and Denise and Daniel. And so, uh and then the um the rest of it,

I'm probably going to sit down with Smart Investor Pro and get some money going into mutual funds. But again, if you're talking about 15 or $20,000 here, it's irrelevant.

You're you're spending way too much effort to worry about it. If you're talking about a million dollars or $750,000 or something like that, then it becomes relevant. And YouTube channels can monetize at all kinds of levels. We have a YouTube channel. We know. And so I know exactly what we make on our YouTube channel. So the uh on the monetization portion of it anyway, but so the um you know, I remember the first

time I met someone, you remember Shay Carl? >> Yeah. That's the first guy I ever met who had a had monetized a million dollars on YouTube. That was um Twitter

was new. That's how long ago that was.

So long time ago. But uh and they had a

family channel at the time. The kids and the family were all on there and their YouTube channel that blew up.

>> And um but I and when I found out he was

making a million dollars on YouTube, I about passed out because I I as far as I knew, it was cat chasing lasers everywhere. But um anyway, so it could be. And I'm going to say this and I don't know it so I even hate to like say it out loud but there I think there are some laws in some states happening with child creators that they have to be paid because a lot of these families are doing family things and the kids are part of the monetization stuff. So make >> like the whole Duggar.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how much of how big of a deal you guys are on it but >> that's starting to become >> I'm I'm fine with them giving them the money at some point. I just want to make sure that >> that the kid is able to carry it.

Totally. Obviously, if you raise a kid and they're a heroin addict and you give them a million dollars, you're going to kill them >> cuz they're going to overdose and so they're going to go buy a lot of heroin.

And so, you got to, you know, you have to build the character into the individual. That's the best way to leave an inheritance and to handle something like this where the kid becomes. So, the problem like in the old days, we would it wouldn't have been YouTube. It would have been a Hollywood child star, >> right?

>> You know, that made all this money and then what happens? >> Uh, you know, the parents absconded with the money >> immorally. >> And um or the child is just so dysfunctional because of the way they're treated. >> That's right.

>> In the spotlight that they're not capable of handling the money when they become an adult. >> Right. >> And so that's what we got to guard against are those kinds of things.

>> No, I don't think so. >> She's she's trying to figure out how to bless her kids. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

>> There there's nothing in this that even between the lines of the way the words are formed. >> No, it just made me think family YouTube channel like, "Oh, I just read an article recently talking about child modernization and how children now are, you know." But anyways, that's a Yeah. Well, I mean, the Duggars, that whole uh thing on that and uh you know, they were

the the parents kept all the money and the kids >> resent that and that came out in not only the documentary, but we've met we've met some of them and they're they're not happy about it. So, that that's the kind of thing. So, that that's very real.

>> If your kids are a prop in your reality show, >> you know, u that's that's a thing. So, anyway, the u >> character the kid number one and then number two. >> Yeah. teach them. And you know guys, the the book that Rachel and I wrote, it was Rachel's first bestseller and she and I did it together first number one.

>> And it was it's smart money, smart kids.

Teaching your kids how to handle money

bec. And the beautiful thing about using it is it it's not really about the money. It's about you're teaching you're using money as a a methodology to teach

character, to teach generosity, that living with an open hand, that other people are important. you're the axis of the world doesn't run through the top of your little head. And so, you know, to teach work ethic and yeah, you will brush your

teeth so you have some later. You will, you know, you will do this chore. Um,

and not just because you're going to get paid, but just because I said so because you're going to leave my home knowing how to work. That way, you stay gone when you leave. And so, um, you know,

that kind of thing is loving your kids well. And it goes back to what Andy Andrews used to say, and it's my one of my favorite Andy Andrews quotes. I'm not trying to raise great kids. I'm trying to raise kids that become great adults.

And it's a different skill set. We're trying to raise kids, not kids that look like little Steepford children and they are weird because they're they act like they're 32 years old and they're four.

I'm not I don't need that. Okay? I want a four-year-old to act like they're four. But but I do want to raise them in such a way that when they are 24,

>> they're a person of substance, a person of poise, >> a a person of integrity, a person who knows how to work and how to save and how to give. And if you do all of that, then some of this other stuff is not going to matter. >> Yeah, it'll work itself out.

>> It will work. You can't mess it up then.

Y >> you can leave them a million dollars at 18. You can leave them a million dollars at 25. uh you could do it out gradually,

you could put it in a trust, you can not put it in a trust, you could do all kinds of stuff. And so, but yeah, as far as the investment part of it, if it is a substantial sum, I would sit down with a

Smart Veester Pro, click at Ramseyolutions.com, click on Smart Veester. You'll find the people in your area that we have vetted and that we love and that have the heart of a teacher, and they're going to give you advice that sounds ridiculously Ramsay.

[Music]

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[Music]

Sarah is in Ohio. Hi Sarah. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I was wondering if you guys had

another suggestion to help me clear my

credit report of a car, a credit card that was opened by my husband before he

um decided to take his own life.

>> Oh, wow. >> Um, I'm so sorry.

>> He last Thank you. last summer and into

the fall, he um started to acrewue a lot

of credit card debt. Um, unbeknownst to me, I did not know about any of this until about a week before he passed away. Um, and then after his death, I

found out about a credit card that he had opened in my name only and charged

roughly close to $12,000 worth of stuff to it. Um, when I received the first invoice in the mail, I reported it as fraud because I didn't know. And, um, through their investigation is how I found out that he opened it in my name.

>> Still fraud. And it's because, yes, because he um made two payments to the

credit card out of our joint checking account. Um and because it has my name on it, um they denied it as fraud.

>> And that's they lose. They lose. No, it

is fraud. >> Period. I >> I went a step further asking for the application and things like that and the transactions. >> Yeah. >> Um they provided those to me. Um he mix

>> chase >> big figures. Okay. Yeah. They're scum.

They're scum. >> And lastly, I filed a police report.

>> Yes. >> Um because he used his phone number, his email, and his mother's maiden name on that application because he did not know mine. >> Right. >> Um so, um I've been denied twice. Um and

the police report is the last thing I just sent in last week. >> Yeah. After this, I really don't know what else to do to get this off of my

credit report. >> Okay, I got you. We can handle it. I'm sorry. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Um, so was he um he he uh you said he

committed suicide in December?

>> Yeah. >> I'm so How long were y'all married, huh?

>> Um just two years. >> Oh, wow. >> Been a long two years, isn't it?

>> Yes, it was. So, he was struggling with Was It sounds like he was struggling with some mental illness obviously of some kind. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's what I'm I'm gathering after the fact as well.

>> Was he being treated for any of it that you know of? >> No, he was not. >> Okay. So, we don't have any >> father also committed suicide. So, I think this is a long history of within his family. >> Oh, Sarah, I'm so sorry.

>> Wow. All right.

>> Currently raising his daughter and she wants to stay with me. she does not want to go home with her mom. Um, and the court system is allowing that. I have not yet to open the estate.

Um, and I know that's going to be an even bigger thing to tackle. To be honest with you, I've had I've called multiple people and I have not even received a call back um of some local lawyers to help me tackle that.

>> Yeah. >> Um, I was waiting past the six months so that all that credit card those creditors um >> that would go away. No, that doesn't that doesn't work. Um they still can file a claim against the estate because you've not you've not you've not handled the estate yet. And so um so what is the

rest of the situation?

>> Um my home is in my home is in my name

um but we purchased another home >> um while we were married and actually in the same neighborhood and we were going to do an Airbnb with it. Um, and we did do that for a short amount of time and we currently have a renter in it now.

>> Um, the home is is in his name financially. >> It is deed to a business name that he started up last fall.

>> Um, that's the estate essentially. Um, >> what's that home worth? >> Because um online it states roughly 450.

>> And what is owed on it?

>> 320. >> Okay. So just for cleanliness sake and

to help you um we can help you with the first thing to start with. I'll come back to that >> but um it's not going to help ultimately

because it's going to land back on him.

So when anyone passes away in any state

what you own as an individual what he anything he had any ownership in any

assets stands good for any debts that he

is responsible for.

Okay. >> And so the equity in that house is going

to stand good for the debts that he has

run up.

>> Okay. >> And um and you that includes the debt

that after we fix this identity theft and it's off of your name and goes back on his name, this $12,000 with Chase is

going to get paid out of the equity of that house.

>> Okay? >> Even though you are not personally liable. So, all we're doing is moving the shell, the P under a different shell. Okay.

>> Okay. >> But, uh, so it's not going away is my point because he's got he's got he's got $100,000 in equity over there. And how much debt did he have?

>> Um, from what I could tell, um, on credit card debt, he was pushing $100,000.

Um, uh, one of his cars was taken back. Um,

like the bank came and got it. Mhm.

>> Um, and so that's >> Did he own anything else jointly with

you or at all? Any other assets, bank

accounts, investments, anything?

>> There was some bank accounts. Yeah. Our joint checking and savings.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but there's not um a lot of money in there at all. And um we did own a truck together, a 2025 um GMC truck. I was

able to get that um title put in my name

by providing the death certificate and then I was able to sell that back to the dealership. Um but I took a $17,000 hit

on that.

>> Okay. >> But I had to get it out of my name um because I couldn't afford the payment on it. >> I understand. >> So I had to I had to dump that quickly.

My credit score last year >> was an 842 before all of this happened and it's a 620 today.

>> Yeah. That's okay. That's okay. We don't need a credit score. only needs a life.

>> Y >> um >> I agree and I have my home and my car is paid for so I don't need my credit but it's definitely hard to look.

>> So it sounds like when you liquidate anything that's got his name on it, it might come close to covering the debts that had his name on it, but you're not going to benefit anything.

You're not going to have any net of anything. It doesn't sound like what you're describing to it, >> right? But you need to do it anyway because otherwise they're going to come after >> the stuff that has both your names on it.

>> So you've got to get the estate cleaned up or those bank accounts and checking accounts that had both names on them and they may come back after that truck transaction >> because that was technically his.

Okay. Even though you didn't benefit, you lost money. Um >> but that had your name on it too, right?

>> Yes. Financially. Yeah. I was the main buyer. He was the co- buyer. >> Yeah. So, you know, they won't come back after you because you lost money. You make money. But your bank accounts and that title to that house over there, >> they're going to eventually come after all that. And you're better off to be proactive to get a a probate attorney,

>> and you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to work this through to get that all done. Now, back to your other thing.

Uh, we've endorsed a company called Xander Insurance for identity theft protection for I don't know 20 years

since before identity theft was even a thing and now it's definitely a thing.

Um, and when someone has the their

identity theft and something occur their identity is stolen, the unique thing about this protection is is they assign a counselor to you, a coach to you that

goes and cleans it up for you.

Okay, >> you did not have that protection when this happened, but

you know someone who can get it done for you, and that's Rachel. I'm kidding.

It's both of us. All right. So, we're going to put you on hold and Kelly's going to connect you with Xander and occasionally as a favor for someone in a

especially hard situation, they will take something even and run it run it through the system and take care of it for you even though you did not have the coverage at the time. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Can't really buy home insurance after the fire. Okay. Right.

>> But but uh but we're going to we're going to do that anyway. And so we'll take care of that and they'll take this case and run it down just cuz I don't like Chase and uh that'll help. So, um

but the but the point is I want you to clearly understand we're really not getting getting rid of it. We're just putting it over into his estate. So, it's going to come up again when you clean up his estate.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it.

>> All right. You hang on and Kelly's going to pick up and we'll try to help you get through this, kiddo. Hey, Kelly. Also, set her up with a Ramsay coach as our gift. She's a widow. We're going to take care of her. Okay.

[Music]

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[Music]

Well, buying real estate, selling real estate, trying to get a new place, a lot

of drama out there right now. And when there's drama, there's one thing you need to depend on, and that's facts. And facts are generally not your hyped up friend who has an opinion about socialism. No, let's just find out what was really going on, what's really happening, what the real prices are, what the real interest rates are, and let's try to get those straight up. If

you want to know what that is, just go to ramseolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on

YouTube. Dallas is in Louisville. Hey

Dallas, what's up?

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Davis, I'm sorry. Hey Davis, I'm sorry.

>> It's okay. Not a problem, buddy.

>> Um, starting off with my question quickly here. Um, I'm a divorced dad of two. Just got through the divorce. Um, I'm just trying to figure out what kind of route I should take to build my retirement and future for my two children. Um, I currently have zero in retirement.

>> Wow. Hard times. I'm sorry. Um, >> yeah. Okay. >> What do you make?

>> Um, I've been a stay-at-home dad for the last four and a half years as my wife ran a successful business. I just got back in the workforce in June doing self uh self-employment remodeling that I did before I was retired. I make were currently about four to five a month.

Before I was retired, I was making about 80 grand a year.

>> Okay. So, you're going to be able to get it back up to 100 now.

>> Okay. >> Exactly. >> All right. And so, you're making 100 grand a year. You're 38 years old. How much debt do you have?

>> Uh, zero consumer debt. My truck's paid off. I am only purchasing a house, which I just did for me and my two kids, and I'll have about 40,000 left in my bank after I put a 280 down payment down on my on my new house. >> Way to go. Nice.

>> Okay. >> Thanks. >> And so the finances in the divorce were in pretty good shape.

>> Yeah, we were fine. We came to an agreement. We kept it admissible as we could. Uh obviously mostly for the children and we're settled on that and signed and now it's just me moving forward and said, "No, my >> But I mean, before the divorce, y'all weren't broke is what I'm saying." That's good. >> No, no, no, no. My wife made an a salary of about 25 per month.

>> Yeah. Okay, cool. All right. So, you got

a good head start here. You got a house.

You got a good income. Um, >> yeah. >> You know, make sure you got the emergency fund in place. Um, you don't have any debt. So, that takes you right to baby step four, which is 15% of your

income going into retirement. And that'd be $15,000 a year going into 401ks and

Roth IAS. And if you're running your own business, you could call it a simple 401k or simple IRA, which is a 401k for a small business. uh you can do a lot of stuff and you could easily get $15,000 into good mutual funds a year. And if you do that from 38 to 68, you're going to have millions and millions of dollars.

>> Okay, that works. Um I do also will be getting approximately $80,000 in a couple months from uh my father and I was just seeing what I should do with that money.

>> I'm probably going to pay the house down. I want to get the house paid off while you're putting 15% of your income away. How much do you owe on the house, Davis? >> Um, it'll be about 130,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> That's great. >> And you're getting how much from your dad?

>> About 80,000. What's that from?

>> Uh, he's got a settlement from his mother in a nursing home that they basically gave the wrong medicine and seemed to have got her.

>> Wow. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Okay. So, he's distributing it to her grandkids.

>> Yeah, he's distributing it to me. He owe he already gave my sister a front for their property a year or two ago and he wanted to even us out.

>> Yeah. So So that means you only owe $50,000 on your house now.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. You get that thing you get that thing paid off. Boom. Now you got a big

chunk of change to throw towards investments >> uh with no house payment, right?

>> So yeah, throw throw the 80 at the house and then get knock that other 50 out as quick as you can, too. >> And and let's be clear and no debt. stay

away from debt and be investing and be generous and you're going to be in great shape, man. You're going to do fine as far as setting all that stuff up with your Roth IAS and everything. Just click on uh Smart Investor Pro at ramseysolutions.com.

>> Yeah. And above that, once once the house is paid off, that's the baby step seven where you continue to build wealth and be generous so you can go above that 15% at retirement and max out some of

the stuff if you can. I mean, if you can max out your your Roth every year and,

you know, put some money into a 401k or that simple 401k, simple IRA.

>> Yeah, guys, y'all forget to some sometimes y'all are listening to us do this and you forget how this math works.

So, we paid off our house many thousands of years ago, it feels like. And it was 1,500 bucks a month and I was paying about 2500 down on it. And then I got a chunk and I took it out. Okay. So, I

took the 1,500, I rounded up to 2500, and I put 2500 a month automatically coming out of my checking account into a mutual fund. And I kept it a separate mutual fund. I I just want to see how fast a house payment became a million dollars.

It was unbelievable how fast that was a million dollars. It was just a few years. I looked up and I went, "Paying yourself a house payment really is a lot of money. It's a lot of money." And so

when you get that house paid off and you turn it around like you're talking about >> that was that was forever ago. That's thousands of years ago. So now it's like there were dinosaurs in the backyard.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So remember that.

>> It's more expensive these days. So even if you get your house paid off now, think about how much more money. >> Well, I mean, yeah. That was only 2500.

You know, that was a big house for 2500 back then. That but that's when you could buy a house for a box of strawberries. >> I know. You traded two oranges.

>> Two oranges for strawberry and you could get a free house. >> Really did. >> You boomers. You boomers. You don't how know how life really works, but >> you had a great housing market. >> Oh jeez.

Should have seen the income. >> It's my poke. >> Should have seen the income. Yeah.

Rudy's in Chicago. Hey Rudy, what's up?

>> Hey Dave and Rachel, thank you so much for having me on. >> Sure. How can we help? >> We're Well, we just want to say we're huge fans. Started a few months ago. And I also want to mention my seven-year-old also a huge fan who has memorized the baby steps and will recite them to anyone willing to listen. wanted to pass that on.

>> Oh no. Oh no.

>> Rudy, I don't even know my kids can. So that's that's impressive.

>> It's pretty funny. Um but so my question

um I guess to begin so we're basically in full gazelle intensity and on step two. Uh but we do plan to be on steps four and five in about six months.

>> Go ahead. >> And so my questions revolve around my wife who's a stay-at-home mother. Uh, so

my questions are once we're done paying off debt, should we be investing more than 15% of our household income to

account for the fact that she's not building her own retirement and >> she has rights to your retirement.

>> Gotcha. And also, so with that, do you

recommend setting up like a spousal IRA is a >> but not because she needs her own retirement because she's got rights to your retirement. Ask anybody who had a 401k with a half million in it and got a divorce.

>> Okay, >> understood. >> Yeah. So that she's she's in good shape.

She's fine. But yeah, I've done spousal IAS every year just because it was a good way to keep the government's hand off of money, right?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. So, yeah, do do Roth IAS for sure in both your names and and as a part of your 15%. Um and then, you know, but I I

would max it at 15. Let's get the house paid off and then let's load up like we were just talking about before we picked up this call. >> Yeah.

>> And you can do backdoor I can still do a

Roth IRA because I can do backdoor Roths regardless of your income. Basically the Roth the right to do a tradition a regular Roth IRA goes away when your household income is up over 200k. And so

uh obviously mine is over that. So, but for me, but what you can do is open an aftert tax traditional IRA, not a pre-tax, an after

tax traditional IRA and roll it to a WTH

30 seconds later.

And I do that every year for Sharon and me >> in the spousal IRA. I don't think many people realize that that's even an option.

>> See that that if Yeah. if there's a state at home. >> My wife does not have an earned income, but I have an earned income in excess of both IRA limits.

>> And so I can fund my wife's IRA or the

case the wife is the working one, the fund the husbands, but either one. It works both ways. But the uh if you're you know my wife has not had an earned income, >> you don't have to make a certain amount to qualify for the spousal.

>> You don't have to make anything. >> Yeah. >> To qualify for the spousal. >> No, I'm saying the spouse that's working though. Yeah. That's making you have to make you have to make more than the two IAS combined two of the combined >> then the amount you're putting in which is not I mean you got to make $16,000 a year you know but or whatever it is but yeah it's nothing but you got to have an earned income in excess of both of them but that's all. Wow. Wow.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host. open phones at88255225.

Samantha's in North Carolina. Hi Samantha. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? Thanks so much for having me on. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> I appreciate it. So I'm 57. Um I'm a

single mom for and have been for about

15 years.

Um when I got out of school, my mom and dad didn't have a huge great financial education. and they're both teachers and I always knew that I would make sure that I kind of did the right things when when I got older. So, I had jobs from

the time I was 14 and when I got through law school when I was 21 or 22, I started to kind of um immediately invest

in my 401k and have done that for 20 30 years. The problem is um circumstances happened

and became a single mom and ended up

with two daughters who basically I ended up putting them through co you know through college and um part of grad school and long story

made short used up most of my income and my retirement to get them through.

Obviously I realized that wasn't the best call at the time. Um,

they're just both amazing kids, incredibly hard workers. >> What did you uh How much did you spend on their education, honey?

>> Between college and grad school. Um, and they took out loans in grad school. I um

probably at least 300 from my 401k and and then

of course >> how much >> throughout about 300,000.

>> Okay.

So, >> and you paid all the taxes and the penalties on all that obviously.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I know in >> Do you have debt, Samantha, with it now?

You said you took out some loans. >> Um, yeah, I have about 65,000 left to

pay off. Um, obviously fully aware this

probably not the best way to approach it at the time. >> That would be an understatement. >> No better. I know. >> Yeah, I know. A, they went to a college they couldn't afford, and B, you should have never used your 401k ever to send a kid to college. There's not a circumstance on the planet that that makes sense. >> I know. >> Okay. But you're there now. Okay. All right. So, what do you make? You said you said law school. That's encouraging.

What do you make? >> Um, I now make about 100,000 a year.

>> Why? >> You've been practicing law for years.

>> I have. Um, I kind of took a different

path and ended up at a firm where I was

able to kind of juggle the raising the girls and and >> Okay. But can now they're gone and they have degrees and they're on their own, right? >> Yeah. >> For the Yeah, just recently. Yep.

>> Yeah. Good. They need I mean good good financially. They It's time for these kids. They kind of got to It's time for you to quit feeding them for sure. Uh, so now can you now can you go make 200?

>> You kind of need to.

>> Yeah. >> What do you have left, Samantha in the 401k? Anything?

>> About 80,000.

So my my question that I was trying to get to and fully aware of all this um no

excuse other than the fact that things happen quickly and something their dad

kind of dropped out at a time when when

>> you made an emotional decision. I understand. >> Yeah, I did. >> I understand. Okay. >> I don't regret it. I mean >> what what is your question then? My question is I'm 57 trying, you know, I

probably have what 10 years to try and make up some >> something and I recently came across the Ramsay program and took financial peace

um last year had and it's fantastic.

Wish I had taken it 20 years ago, right?

But it is what it is. I know better now.

But >> okay, that's good. Um, so my question is

one of your kind of general thoughts is

that you shouldn't until you pay off with the baby steps, but you shouldn't um invest at all until you pay off the debt, which I understand, but if it my question is if it takes me like say a year to get the debt paid off

>> at this point when I'm this timewise >> still mathematically, we're not going to make another emotional decision. Okay, >> I know you're scared. I know you're scared and this thing's this retirement thing's bearing down on you >> and it's causing you to have incredible regrets for the things that have happened in the past, but but all of that aside, um the fastest way mathematically for you to get a good nest egg is first get rid of the 65,000 and make sure you have no debt and you're living on a detailed budget. And anything we can do to increase your income to accelerate both of these things, the the debt, the debt removal and the rebuilding of the nest egg is absolutely vital.

it's time for you to go make some money and you've been putting everybody else first for a very very long time. And uh

you you now have no choice in the matter. You have to put Samantha first.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. And and just to clarify, these two girls are not they're you know, we're talking

incredibly hardworking.

>> I didn't question their character, honey. >> Yeah. >> I just question where they went to school >> and where they got the money. But that's all in the past, you know. I'm not going to beat you up anymore. That's not that's not what we're here for. We're here to move into the future. So the future is >> the future is you go make as much money as you can make. And if you change law firms to go make 200.

>> I kind of love your girls to step up and take on the 65. >> Yeah. Hello.

>> Yeah. Well, they're just I mean, one is >> they're so great.

>> No, they're they're great. They're just one is literally just graduated from Columbia and she's in a doctorate program and so she's paying it's a fully funded program and she's paying all her bills now and the other one is actually

heading to have an interview at NATO and

so they're they're >> that's awesome. I just I No, I hear you and I don't question that. It just would be nice if they stepped in. They don't have to legally because your name's on the on the loan. >> Nor do they have to morally because you didn't the deal you made, but it would be cool if they go to make $300,000 a year if they reach over and take care of this loan. So, their mother doesn't have to retire on Alpo.

>> Yeah. >> No, they're they're that's a non-issue.

These they're both great kids, but they're just literally getting on their feet. So, you know, and >> Okay. So, Samantha. Yeah. So, between now, hey, between in the next 10 years though, for real, >> working as hard as you can, upping the income, >> getting the 65 paid off, and then what's your housing situation? Do you own a home?

>> No. >> No. Okay. >> I did. I did in the divorce. Long story, but >> No, that's fine. So, that would be How long ago were you divorced?

>> Um, probably about 15 years.

>> Okay. But there's there's a whole lot of issues that I wouldn't want to fine.

It's all good. But I got put in a situation where I did the best I thought for the girls. >> Yes. Okay. So, moving forward though, again, >> Yeah. >> getting that debt paid off and then and then >> Yeah. And you got to get you got to get a a home that you get paid off, a little one-bedroom condo or something >> that you get paid for and so forth. So,

okay. Um she loves her kids and um single mom,

warrior princess, doing the best she could. >> Oh yeah. It's I mean >> but let not to pick on her, okay, but to say if you're out there in that situation, you have to make decisions

based on facts, not feelings. And I'm

going to take care of my children at any cost is a feeling.

Those kids could have gone to state schools, not Colombia. They could have worked while they were in school. They could have gone and got scholarships. They had a mother that was a single mom.

And there would have been no debt and no $300,000 cash out.

Okay? And the kids would have been fine >> and still great character >> and still great kids. >> I mean, seriously, >> still great kids.

[Music]

Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Do you know how? Take a quick quiz for free and check your progress and we will give you a personalized plan

to get you on track. Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quiz and we will give you a personalized plan. Rebecca's

in Texas. Hi Rebecca.

>> Hey Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, I am in a pretty interesting situation.

uh and kind of sad as well. Um

earlier this year, a uh

I guess a boyfriend at the time of two years was ready to take the next step

and um he wanted to move to my state and

he ended up purchasing a ranch which is

kind of like my dream property for about a million dollars. paid cash, put me on the deed, and prior to that, I said, you know, I don't feel comfortable doing this unless I am unless we are married.

At that point, he was like, "Nope, we're going to get married." A venue was booked. Um, a ring was purchased

and we move forward. Um, he moves in for

about three weeks and then

tries to almost trick me into signing the deed in of the house into a trust while he's like planning his exit. And he left. So,

which >> whole other set of emotional issues.

>> He paid he paid cash.

>> He did of a million dollar for a property. a little. Yep.

>> And put your name on the deed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And then he took off.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Wild. So, I don't understand how he profits from this. You It almost sounds like he was trying to scam. Is he just flighty or what?

>> I I I think he has some I think he wants

the He liked the idea of this. Um.

>> Oh. >> And I think >> broke your heart. The process. Wow.

>> Broke my heart. I'm left to manage the

whole 20 acres on my own and six animals. >> It's not your house.

>> It's not my house. >> Well, he it's his million dollars, right? >> It Yeah, but I'm on the deed, so technically I am 50% owner and my home

um I rented it out and I have tenants in

there through the end of May.

>> Oh my gosh.

Okay. So, so >> is he asking for the property back at all? Like, are you guys going to sell? >> He tried to, like I said, like when he

was planning his exit before I put all the pieces together, he said, "Oh, someone's going to contact you, you know, to put the house in a trust to protect you in case something happens." >> How long they been gone?

>> Um, six weeks.

>> Okay. All right. Wow.

Okay. So, um I am trying to figure out

what my goal should be in this situation.

>> Should I say, "Okay, let's list the property

>> but before it's listed, obviously have it worked out and I I mean my life flipped upside down." >> Has he been in contact with you since he left?

Um, we we spoke once and that's when it

was basically like this is over. We're not doing this. >> It's so interesting. It's usually him calling us, Rebecca, being like, crap, I bought a ranch with my fiance who I'm not too who I'm not with anymore. What do I do for my million dollars?

>> Instead, you're sitting there on a half a million dollar windfall because this guy's loopy.

>> Yes. So, do I buy him out?

you I take the you know I I obviously

will work with attorneys to have the paperwork drawn up so the property's listed and there's an offer we have um a

plan in place as far as you so at the

last minute well we would that would be my goal if we list it >> would be to have everything written out so there's no question I >> I think this guy's an absolute I mean the the the story you've told me he's an absolute crazy man um and weird and and

everything else.

>> I'm very sad. I'm very sad about that.

>> Everybody was great though, Rebecca.

>> And yet and yet, if I'm in your shoes, I

don't feel entitled to $500,000 of his

money. >> I don't feel that way. Like I feel like I questioned that, but I quit a job. I uprooted my entire

life. And this gesture that he made was

to show his level of commitment and his seriousness for the relationship.

>> So what what were you making at your job? >> Um about 100.

>> Can you go back?

>> I cannot go back there. No.

>> Okay. What were you doing?

>> Um I work in um private aviation

on the kind of operations side.

>> Okay. All right. Um, well, obviously you're going to have to get a career going forward. >> I do have a job. I do I did get another job. Thank you. >> Thankfully, 100.

>> You're making 100. Okay.

>> So, other than the time off in between

that you did not benefit from, how long how long were you out of work?

>> Um, a couple months about three months.

But this current job is not as stable as a company as my previous one, which makes me >> So your point is you've been damaged by this fraud >> and so financially and so it would be

ethical to receive something for that.

>> I don't know. I I >> I think that's right. I think I think you know it cost you it cost you a good job >> and um >> my home that I had.

>> Well, no, you own the home still.

right? >> You'll get it back in May, you know, and you will have rented it. You will have made money on it during that time.

>> So, I don't mind tagging him for 100 grand or something. I just don't >> I don't know how you've been harmed much more than 100 grand unless you want to just be punitive, which honestly is probably okay. This guy kind of deserves it, but I'm kind of with you. I mean, I'm I'm vacasillating while I'm talking to you. You hear me? So, I'm not sure.

This is weird and you as you know, so and you're not the weird one. So, um,

yeah. Okay. I don't want to

I want to be made whole financially plus

a little if I'm you past that. This is

dirty money for me.

>> Right. >> I I got and I don't want to live on this farm, this ranch. >> Right. >> That's that's got bad juju all over it.

>> Mhm. >> Right. If I'm you, I'm just I'm just >> Yeah. I don't I would >> I'm trying to put myself in your shoes.

>> Yeah. Get me out of there. >> I I don't want to I don't want to walk away >> legally. You're entitled to half a million legally, right? If her name's on the >> deed. Nothing this twerk can do about it. He stepped in it. >> But the question is what do you feel right about? Right. From just like a moral perspective and that's being made whole plus a little bit more what you're saying. >> I would try Do you have a ability to contact him?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. I would have your attorney contact him and say, um, I will sign a deed to you for $200,000 or whatever the number is. >> And then I would go get an apartment and sell off the animals and get out of

this. Get away from this whole thing.

>> Mhm. And then go back to your and go back to your house in May when the move out. >> I just I would just get away from the whole thing. Anything that anything that keeps me in this story is disturbing. I

want to get out of this story. It's a bad story. >> Emotionally, that's probably the best.

>> No, I mean, just generally, I think it's probably financially >> because it's just it's it's you're distracted by evil stuff.

>> Did y'all Did y'all date long term, Rebecca, for two years? For two years long term? >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Long distance. >> But it was a bit of a roller coaster.

Long distance. And this was like the Okay, he's going he he wants to commit.

He wants to take the next step. He He's ready to >> Yeah. There's almost a level of like mourning this life that kind of whipped up really quickly for you. You know what I mean? Like I mean I know you guys were in a relationship for two years, but him moving, buying a ranch, you moved, you quit your job. I mean, you had a a whirlwind within 90 days of this life

that was ahead of you and then it's gone as quickly as it came is what it feels like. So there's >> Yeah. Some whiplash for sure.

>> There there's a whiplash penalty. I'm I'm willing that he should pay. I'm fine with that. and anything that he actually cost you, which is probably probably 100 grand, give or take, and then a whiplash penalty or whatever you want to put on it. And I'll sign the deed for that. It sounds like he's got money.

>> He's had a couple a couple mill.

>> Yeah. So, he could write you a $200,000 check or whatever the number is you've got in mind and you just sign the deed and we're done. Get the animals sold off so they're not hurt cuz he's not going to come back and feed them. You got to make sure they're gone, right? And so, um, and I would put this whole thing way

in the rearview mirror if I if you were if you were my daughter. That's what I'd tell you to do. >> Sucks. Sorry, Rebecca.

>> Yeah, it's awful.

[Music]

[Music]

August is National Make a Will Month.

Like we needed a month to do that, but there you go.

Why do people not make a will? Well, number one reason is procrastination.

43% of adults without a will say they just haven't gotten around to it.

Perfectionism is number two. Writing a will involves big decisions and dealing with your family. That's not perfectionism. That's avoidance.

>> I don't want to deal with that. >> I don't want to deal with that. Or her or him >> thinking you need a certain amount of assets before you get a will. No, you don't. You just need to be 18 and care that the government doesn't conduct your affairs for you, like where your children go if you die. A belief that everything automatically goes to family.

It doesn't. It goes to the lawyers.

Sons uncertainty about the process. Many people say they just don't know how or where to start. Wheels can be confusing, but our team is here to help. Uh you can take our wheels quiz to find out if a simple online will is right for you at ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz.

Andrew is in Colia, Missouri. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I own a pool cleaning uh repair

and resurface company here in Colombia.

Um, I am in a partnership with with another guy. Um, we started the business

about three summers ago. Um, I had previous experience with a cool company here, one of the bigger ones here, and I decided to branch off, you know, do my own thing. Um, started pretty small. So,

me and my partner, we started doing, you know, power washing, window washing jobs, uh, pool cleanings, you know, we didn't have too many clients, probably about 10 to 15. Um, you know, fast

forward to the >> Why did you need a partner? second year

>> uh at the time. So, I had I I

technically I didn't. >> Okay. >> Um >> and now you've learned that partnerships are the only ship that won't sail.

>> Correct. That's correct.

>> I'm guessing you you two guys did not do anything like go to a lawyer and have a partnership agreement drawn up.

>> Um initially, no. Uh that happened later

on and it was pretty much too late by you know by the time we did make one.

>> Um there >> why was it too late? What's what's happened?

>> Um so basically um we started sub last year we started subcontracting for this this uh the pool resurface company that we actually bought. Um my partner he was it was owned by one of his uncles. His uncles was higher up there. Uh made good money.

Um, anyways, last year though, I got

connected with one of the my old managers that I actually worked with at the old pool store I worked at, and I said, "Hey, what do you think about coming over here? I'll, you know, pay you decent um and we'll, you know,

basically start taking

um a lot of the clients that that pool company that I used to work for has. So, I probably took half of their commercial neighborhood pools. Um, plus, I don't know, 10 residential and commercial ones have to be done three times a week. So, those come out to 60 visits a week plus repairs. Um, anyways, when we were when

Anyways, I had that that happened last year as we were doing the pool reservicing. So, I got connected with that. Um, at the time that business

basically after we got done subcontracting for them, they said, "Hey, what do you guys think about buying this?" Um, you know, obviously it

was connected with my partner's family, so he was all about it. He wanted to do it all this and I said, "Hey," I was like, "How about we just buy the equipment and we slowly build?" um he disagreed with me and I eventually

just gave in because I you know I was like well maybe this will work out so I gave in. Um you know and I I was nervous

about all of it. Um so anyways fast forward now to this year you know pool the I'm basically running the pool repair and pool cleaning side and you know for example last month we brought in about 49,000 revenue. Um the coat

your pool side he is supposed to be running and he he's done probably two jobs in the past 3 months and has brought in you know we haven't profited anything from it. Why is he not working?

>> Basically, he's he I've confronted him

about it, I say, "Hey, we need to push this harder. We need to do this." And he basically he has he has a kid with his girlfriend and he basically every time I bring it up and say, "Hey, we need to do this. We need to make more money. We're losing money right now actually." He just says, "You wouldn't understand.

You don't have a child at home." And things just get awkward after that. And you know, we go >> So, what does a partnership say about dissolving a partnership? about dissolving it.

>> Yeah. So, our agreement's very vague, unfortunately. Um I actually

What did you Did you go into debt to buy this crappy business that this crappy guy's running?

>> Yeah. So, the business um is was 200 200

260,000.

Um they basically said, "Hey, we won't

we won't uh charge you any interest." basically a five-year plan. You'll pay $4,000 a month. Um, we'll do all your marketing, get all your jobs the first year. And when I heard that, I was just like, initially I was like, "Oh, I I don't want to do this." I expressed it to him multiple times. I said, "This is dangerous. We're going to I >> But you did it, Andrew. But you did it.

You're correct." >> And so, you didn't walk away even though you knew you were supposed to walk away.

>> So, um, the prudent see danger and seek refuge. The simple see danger, move forward, and pay a penalty. and I've been simple and move forward and pay a penalty. So, how are we going to get out of this? You owe these people $260,000.

It's his uncle. Will he let will his uncle let you off and let him have just give him that part of the business? You take the other part.

>> So, the deal with the businesses is that we can give the business back at any time and we owe we can keep the money we made and that is that we can just give it back and there's no more debt.

problem is he doesn't, you know, partner doesn't want to do that, but he's also not working. >> Yeah. No, that's not No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

>> I want you to call the people back and say, I'm going to give you my portion back.

>> And then deed his portion, your partner's portion to him, let him have that business, and you go run your other business.

>> Right. Right.

Yeah. He So I >> Let him sit over there in his own poop.

Yeah. >> Get away from it, Andrew, if you can.

>> You got to get out of this. >> Yeah. >> Walk away. >> Yeah. Well, what I what I do right now, I really enjoy, too. So, I you know, >> you can do the same thing every day.

>> Just take take your portion of the business. He signs off and says, "This is your portion. I'll take you. You can have the portion that your uncle sold us and you can have the debt and you can have you can make all the money in the world. Good luck. And you just turn my turn this over here loose to me and and I'll take this." And we're splitting up.

>> Okay. And if you don't do that, I'm going to hire a lawyer and sue you.

>> Yeah. >> Because you don't work. >> So I >> How old are you guys, Andrew?

>> 26. >> I'm I'm I'm 24 and he is 28.

>> Like I've done this before. Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So rule of thumb is never do a partnership, >> right? If you are dumb enough to do a partnership, you have to have thorough partnership agreements that deal with when one of the partners is not performing or doing drugs or dies or gets disabled or gets divorced and you don't want to be in a pool business with his girlfriend, okay? Or whatever. So, all that and you don't have any of that.

So, you're screwed is where you are. But if you can go over and sit down with him and go, "Look, >> I'm so pissed off. I can't see. This isn't working. I want you to take this whole thing and I'll take this whole thing and I'll sign over my part to you and you sign over this part over here to me. And if you don't do that, I'm going to go get a lawyer and sue you >> cuz I'm not going to live like this anymore. It's not working for me.

And you have been too stinking nice to

tell people the truth >> and too nice to stand up for yourself, Andrew, of what you know is right and wrong. So, right, let's uh >> this is your time where your backbone gets uh installed. Okay.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I I I have actually written >> You're not going to do it, are you?

>> No, I I have some I have already something written up. I'm just >> I don't want to write anything up. I'm going to go sit down and have a cup of coffee and go, "Dude, you're I'm going to sign over this whole thing over here to you. It's going to be yours. You're going to sign this whole thing over here to me. It's going to be mine. We're not working together anymore. This is how this is ending. I'm done.

>> Yeah. >> I didn't want to be in this in the first place. I wish I wasn't. >> Your tone could be nicer than that.

>> I don't know. >> But be done. Be >> at least in your head. >> Decisive. Be decisive. Andrew.

>> Clear. >> Clear and decisive. >> And don't talk about all the stuff in the past and all that. All that matters is you're fired. That's all that matters.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day is Philippians 4:6. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be known to God.

Teddy Roosevelt said, "Complaining about a problem without posing a solution is called whining."

I love it. All right, Matt's in Colorado Springs. Hey Matt, what's up?

>> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. How are you today?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> Yes sir. So um I've got a debt collector

on my back and it's for a relatively small amount and I've heard you talk about debt collectors and their scummy kind of tactics and stuff and I've never experienced this. So I was hoping you could help me. To make a long story short, my wife and I have been married about a year and a half now. We had about $38,000 worth of debt.

nine months ago. We're down to 17. We're trying to work through babysat, too. >> Good.

>> Um, this she had a credit card, I guess, that before we got together, she had had and when she was 20, I guess she decided she didn't feel like paying it back and here it is. And I I didn't know I didn't know it was there. Um, >> what's what's the balance >> hanging around? >> It's only $2,300.

>> Um, we never got a phone call, text message, anything. >> If they were going to take you to court, they would have done it a long time ago. It's been 5 years.

>> So, it's been sold to a debt collector obviously. So, you know, I I've called them and I' I've taken your advice. I haven't given them I've given them barely any information about us and I've haggled them and they've told me final offer three times and the best deal they're willing to cut me at this point is after three hours of haggling with them and and 17 different people I've been passed to is 1,600 bucks. I don't know if it's worth just paying the 1,600 but that would be my emergency fund plus we do the OG cash folders.

My wife loves your wallet, Rachel. So we we got a wallet full of some grocery money and stuff. >> Nice. >> Um so that would be all that money.

>> How much you guys make a year, Matt?

>> Um, I'm a UPS driver. She's a dental assistant. I make between the two of us.

She just got a raise. If I work overtime, I'd say we make before tax maybe 70 or I'm sorry, um 95ish

between the two of us right now. >> Okay. >> All right. So, is this the next item in your uh debt snowball?

>> Well, this was an unexpected thing that just popped up about two two days ago.

We um >> you had 17 conversations in two days.

>> Well, I' I've got Bluetooth headphones and 10 hours a day of slinging cardboard that I can argue with somebody all day if I have to. >> So, you this whole this whole thing stretched out over two whole days.

I I mean the the first time I I guess maybe this makes more sense. Back in her old mailing address when this all happened was her parents home. Back in February, someone pulled up to her parents home asking for her. We didn't know what that was about and they didn't tell her parents any information. And then about 3 days ago, someone pulled up and just handed her mother the manila envelope, the manila folder. >> But to your point, you've only been in contact with them for 3 days is what?

>> Yes, ma'am.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. Let let it sit.

Okay, >> just turn it off because >> the the the the paperwork says September

I think 12th or 18th and you know and that's when it's supposed to be officially filed with the court. >> That's fine. >> But I just don't know how serious to take that. >> I wouldn't worry about it.

>> Okay. What What would you recommend I do? Just keep haggling them until I get a better >> I would call back when you've got the money to settle it. And you know what?

You could settle it for $1,000 today, right? >> I I tried. And I mean, I told them, I said, "Look, I'm doing the I even said, I'm doing the Dave Ramsey plan. I don't have a lot of liquid access.

I got $1,000. Take my money." And they said, "No." Okay, >> that's ridiculous. We can only come down 25%. And after some lady yelling at me for 30 minutes on the phone, she she said she pulled the whole car salesman tactic.

>> Stop. Stop. Okay.

hanging up." Okay. >> And then hang up. We're not going to have anybody yelling at me for 30 minutes over $2,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Just hang up. >> Okay. I don't want to wind up in a situation where I'm in a courtroom now.

>> You're not going to be in a courtroom. You're not even going to go. There's no point in going. You're going to lose.

>> She ow you, but your wife. She owes the

money. Open and shut case. She loses.

Now you're settling a judgment lean and not a debt. Whoop-dedoopy. It doesn't matter. It's a 5-year-old debt. It's It's >> They're saying they can come at us with all their fees and >> Yeah, they can come at come at you with all that if I choose to pay it, but until you choose to get a hold of me and there, you're not going to get it cuz you don't even know where we are.

>> And make sure that her parents don't give out any information if anyone comes to their front door and tell them if they come up on my property again, we're going to have them arrested for trespassing.

>> Okay. So, so they're really just trying to scare me and show them on me.

>> 100%. No, they're trying to piss you off. >> Okay, >> if they can get you very afraid or very angry, you quit thinking with the proper

parts of your brain and you just want to kill them.

>> Okay, >> that's why they call them some more or you think I just let it let it sit a week. Let it sit a week. >> Yes, sir. >> And call them back and say, "I, you know, I talked to somebody over there.

They were a and I know what you guys paid for this. You probably paid about a hundred bucks for this debt, and I'm willing to give you $1,000. That's all I've got. If you want to take that, fine.

If not, there's not going to be a lot of discussion here. Do you want that or not?

>> If you don't speak reasonably, we're going to end the conversation. End the conversation.

>> Okay. >> Call back the next day and do it again.

>> And you're going to you just It's like training a dog.

>> I mean, you just have to do it repetitively, right?

>> Yes, sir. I just My dog's got a shot collar, so it's a little >> That's it. That's it. just just hit the shot collar and eventually the dog figures out we're not doing that crap, >> right? And so you have to train these morons because their training has taught them that if they are unreasonable, angry, fear-based, anger based that they

can get you thinking with the lizard part of your brain instead of the higher thinking parts of your brain. And you do irrational things like give them the money out of your food envelope, which we're definitely not going to do, dude.

But you make 95,000 and you do need to get this cleared up sometime between now and Christmas. So yeah, just get pay you're going to pay something to get it out. And yeah, >> and if you pay 1,600 between now and Christmas and you've actually got the 1,600 by then, that's fine. You're okay.

>> But you don't need to wipe out your emergency fund for it. >> And you you're giving this way more attention than they are.

>> So just back off. Just let them sit.

Just let it sit for a week and call them up. And if you can have a reasonable conversation, fairly short, yes or no, you want to do this. >> Always fascinating that he had spent five years. >> Yeah. >> And it just And >> now we're going to sue. >> I thought it just randomly were you before, you know? It's like >> So just remember that. Yeah.

>> I mean, is it that that it just sits there, it gets sold, all of it, and it just happens to be the file and they grab that file and next is next and >> they just they're just working. They're just work. It's a widget on conveyor belt. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so >> the time is always so random to me.

>> Yeah. >> Five years later. >> It's crazy. >> Yep. >> And you know, we know that this can be done. We bought $10 million worth of bad debt and forgave it all one Christmas.

It was 8,000 accounts.

Each of the 1,000 people that work here had eight people to call and say, "We forgave the debt in the name of Jesus." And we paid 2.5 cents on the dollar for it. I bought $10 million worth of debt for $259,000.

Okay. And so, and it was all accounts just exactly like this.

>> And we just called them up and said, "Your debt's forgiven in the name of Jesus. We'll >> Some of them were like, I don't remember that to this point.

So long." Yeah. It's been so long.

>> You remember that hospital bill you had from five years ago. That was $42 and now it's $486. Yeah.

>> There you go. That's it. >> Yep. >> That That's the whole the whole business. >> But good for you, Matt. You and your wife doing this and >> I'm glad you're working through it, man. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, y'all are doing the Let me tell you what Let me tell you what you're doing right. You're being very proactive. >> Yeah, >> that's what you're doing right. The The thing I don't want you to do is fall into the trap of letting them control the narrative and the conversation.

>> So, give a little more space in between.

>> Uh even though you've got the time to sit on the headset and throw boxes, don't do it. Okay? Let them sit over there and wonder if they're ever going to find your wife cuz they don't know where she is. and we're going to settle this for $1,000 and that's going to be a really good deal for them and a really good deal for you.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. [Music]

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show except you get to be a part of it.

>> Part of what, George? The The Ramsay Show live. Okay. That's what I'm telling them about right now. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The Windy City. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish.

>> Okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

>> Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. >> George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? >> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? >> It It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know? Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. Thanks. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold here in Chicago? Wh >> What is happening? Can I Can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available.

So, get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? >> Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George.

>> It's how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. >> Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 140. Start Telling Your Money Where To Go | April 10, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw number one bestselling author and Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Savannah, Georgia, Sally is calling. Hey Sally, how are you?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

So, um, we found y'all through our church through, um, FPU about a year and a half ago, and we are on baby step four. Um, and my in-laws, um, kind of

popped this idea to us about 6 months ago. We have we bought our house about two years ago and it has a very large unfinished basement. and they have had

this idea that when they retire, which is going to be my father-in-law's retiring at the end of the year, that they want to kind of put some money into

our house and finish off our basement for them to kind of be snowbirds to be here, go in the south, and then go up north and then eventually kind of transition to living with us in our basement full-time. Um, and I'm not

totally against the idea, um, because we have a good relationship. It'd be great for our kids to have grandparents close by. Um, but I'm a little bit concerned

about the long-term effect of this. Um,

you know, they wouldn't really have an ROI putting money into our house. Um,

>> do they know that? >> On their nest egg. >> Um, yes, we told them that. Um, and my

concern is just, you know, like what happens if they do this and you know in five years from now someone has a stroke and now they need more care and a lot of their money is tied up in our house >> or you decide to move and take a different job. >> And my husband said that to them and they kind of were like, "Oh well, I guess you just mean that two more people are moving with you." >> Oh boy. Listen, there's a difference between having grandparents close and having them in the basement.

That's a major difference. >> And I just I don't know like I I you know we want to be you know I want to be a good steward of you know what we've been given and you know to help out how we can. Um it's more just the long term.

You know we're 33 and we have >> Hey, I got to stop you. I got to stop you because you sound like someone who knows what they want to do but you don't feel firm enough in it that you're you're talking yourself in circles about it. >> Yeah. you you you you know this not a good idea, but you're afraid you're not being nice >> and your your classic southern bless your heart.

>> Um you know, oh, bless your heart. So, no, no, no, no, no. They don't need to move in there.

>> And they there's more downside than upside. >> I think so. >> Yeah. And they I just found out too that they got an annuity and I got George's book and I heard that like that is not good either.

And so I'm concerned about like their financial future and their money. >> Yeah.

decisions. >> That's that's we told them and they said that they don't think they're going to have the money to move. But that this is a snowbird thing. It's not their primary residence. >> Yeah. But they want it to be eventually, >> right? But it's not today. Which means they have a place somewhere where there's equity building. And he is retired from a job. So there should be some sort of retirement something some nest egg. I don't know how big or small.

>> Well, bottom line is whether they've got the money or not >> doesn't determine whether this is a good idea. >> As a matter of fact, since they don't have the money, it further ensures that this is not a good idea. If I woke up in your shoes, I would say, "Mom and dad, we love you. We'd love to have you close, but not that close." >> Does your husband agree or is he fighting for the in-laws?

>> No. No, he No, he does. And I think my my concern is um you know, and we're going to we're actually seeing him next month to like really talk about this in more detail.

I told my husband like if they if I find out you know they have like $5 million in their next nest egg 100 grand to drop in our basement. Is it maybe a big deal?

But >> Dave is right. The money side of this care how much money they have.

>> I don't care how responsible they are.

This is a bad idea because it handcuffs you guys. the exit strategies on this, as you said, if something goes sideways and somebody needs help or whatever, you

you are stuck once you get in this

>> and there's no way out. And that's the problem with this. And you are not being

mean by saying, "No, we have to figure

out some other way that you guys have a sustainable life." That's not mean.

>> Not at all. >> It's not mean at all. Uh you're not, you know, you're scared to death you're not going to be nice because you're a sweet person. Yeah. >> Uh you can just be just smile and be kind and say no.

>> Uh and you don't need to have the meeting next month either.

>> There's no reason to leave these poor people alone. You need to just your husband needs to call his mother and say no.

>> You need to stay out of it.

>> He needs to tell her no, not you. Cuz you'll be labeled the wicked witch of the west forever. >> 25 years ago, I wanted to move in her basement and she wouldn't let me that witch. You know, that's the kind of that's how that stuff gets started, right? >> Yes. And so that starts a whole narrative then and you'll get blamed for it. So no, make him have a backbone and tell his mommy no. And um and don't have

a detailed meeting discussing it. I really would I really would not do this.

>> I wouldn't do it either because >> there's no there How does this end?

Well, >> well then it looks well if you have the meeting, it looks like you're considering it. >> I know. I know. And that that and that's not fair.

That's not fair. That's that's not fair at all. And so, um, you know, no, but e, but if you, if they do move in, I can't think of an exit strategy that works unless both of them died in their sleep. >> No, everything becomes >> other than that, I can't think of a good exit strategy here.

>> No. And then everything becomes >> they need to do that in time for you to move. Yeah. I mean, no.

no, no, no. There's going to be aging problems and disability issues and care issues and you all and boundary issues

and you guys there's like 99 things that

can go wrong and only one that can go right. >> Yeah. And all the risk is on you guys.

It's there's no risk on them cuz they get built-in healthare.

>> The risk is on them as if you sold the house after they did a bunch of improvements. >> Yeah, that's true. >> That's the risk is on them. But still, it's they they they need to use their money more wisely.

>> Yeah. >> And have a good life. that it's fine to be close by, but we need good healthy

physical boundaries. It's a good thing.

Great. Uh man, so um

you know, we are now getting calls in the last three years that in 40 years of

doing this show, I've not gotten >> uh much of much of just this idea of multi-generational housing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. the parents. Uh, we're going to we're going to I mean, I've had the mother-in-law question. We're going to build the mother-in-law apartment, right? Or we want to add on to our house and she wants to give us $200,000 to do that and then um she's going to give us that at her death and she's going to live over there. That question I've had, but now we're seeing this thing of uh the family compound.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and and four families are moving onto one single piece of property and there's no exit. these things uh you

know it and they're doing it because they think it's more affordable to do it. >> Yeah. >> But you guys have got to be real careful. You have to think through what happens in divorce, what happens in disability, what happens in death, what happens when the sister-in-law across the way starts doing cocaine?

>> What happens when you decide you just don't like these people? Well, that could happen Yeah, >> you know, >> this is family after all.

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Ella is in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Ella. How

are you?

>> I am doing great. I hope you can hear me. Okay. And I hope that you guys are doing great, too. >> We are better than we deserve. What's up? Um, so I am actually calling because

my husband and I are working through the baby steps. Um, we're on baby step two right now and you know, we're fully aligned that we want to follow um the steps all the way through. Um, especially right now he's he just turned 40. I'm 35. We have a a four-year-old, a

2-year-old, and I'm currently pregnant right now. >> Wow. Wonderful. >> At 29 weeks. >> Yay.

>> Yes. So, it's it's really great, but of course, we change our mindset because of this understand that we really need to do a lot of planning the future. Um, so

right now getting out of debt is pretty important for us. So, at the beginning of the month, you know, me and my husband, I go through my spreadsheets.

I'm the finance person here and the budgeter. Um, >> we go through a spreadsheet together at the beginning of the month and, you know, we like, "Okay, we're going to make sure that we're strict. We don't buy anything, just what we need." um so that we can put as much as we can towards our debt. But then halfway through the month, my husband kind of goes through a lull and he starts wanting to spend money.

You know, he starts looking at his phone. He wants stuff for his hobbies. Um he's very much into guns and motorcycles and things like that.

right now. Uh my kids go to daycare, you know, two to three times, you know, part-time just to give me a little break. Mhm. >> Um he's really the sole income earnner right now and um he works very very hard. His job is pretty mentally draining. On top of that, he's like in traffic 45 minutes there and 45 minutes back. Um so I feel like the spending is

his stress relief. >> Has he always done that? Has he always been somewhat of an impulse spender?

>> Uh yeah. Yeah. He's a spender of the family. >> Okay. What we have to do is change the uh the way this is being built.

Okay. >> Okay. >> So, I'm going to take you off of spreadsheets because he doesn't do spreadsheet. >> He He doesn't speak spreadsheet.

>> Oh, no. He doesn't. >> And I'm going to put you on our Every dollar budgeting app and there's one on his phone and one on your phone for the same account. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And the two of you sit down at the first

of the month and both of you get a vote,

not just you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Both of you get a vote and both of you emotionally shoulder the weight

of winning with money at your household.

We have three little babies soon

>> and we need to carry the weight of this

on two adult shoulders.

Okay. Yeah. And based on that, I'm a man, not a little boy, that is taking

care of my family. And so, I'm going to look at this with my wife, who's a woman, not a little princess.

And we're going to make two adult decisions that are good about our future.

And we're both going to speak into that and lay out the game plan on the Everd Dollar budgeting app. And then once we've both looked at that through that lens >> and we both agree to it, then later in

the month, if we decide to be a little boy again, we have to be reminded that we're a man.

if we decide to we be a little princess again. But you're not his mother.

He needs to step up and say for the good

of my family, this is what I'm going to

do for a short period of time here.

We're going to clean up the debt mess that we've made with our immaturity and impulse spending. And that means no motorcycles and no guns right now. And and to take it to even a more practical level, if for and this is for anybody who's an impulse spender, there are practical things you can do to stop that behavior beyond just saying, "I'm not going to do it anymore." Because if that's not working for him, >> the practical thing is to agree and look in your wife's eyes and make her a promise. >> Yeah.

But he can also do like if you know, you've already identified, hey, the temptation is, you know, guns, motorcycles, cars, you know what the temptation thing is. Now the next thing is Okay. Then you've also identified like what the cue is. Like what causes him to get in that mindset?

Okay, it's his his his commute home, stressful work. So then it's up to him to go, okay, I already I already know that I'm setting myself up to be in this situation. Instead, let me replace it with something that's actually helpful for me. So now his new routine needs to be I don't come home and plop on the couch and get on my phone and start scrolling the next product I want.

I go and I mow the lawn or I go and I work on the budget or I go he's got to replace that activity uh with something that's actually beneficial and relieves the stress that he was trying to relieve by spending and that is just I mean that's psychology that's how that's how you change a habit. >> So yeah >> I I completely agree. What?

you went and implemented the detail,

>> right? >> And I want the two of you to agree on the detail.

Pinky swear and spit shake and have a contract between the two of you. This is what we are saying together that makes

our household go where we want it to go.

and then you go do the detail. You execute the detail. But I want him

looking at every line item on every dollar and agreeing this is what we're going to spend on food. This is what we're going to spend on lights. This is what we're going to spend on whatever.

And and by agreeing to that, we're also agreeing that we're not doing anything else, >> right? Not veering off.

>> No. And he's not doing that in advance.

Instead, he's way up above it in the clouds going, I think it'd be good to get out of debt. We got babies, but I really want a gun. >> You know, and and you know, because he's not he's not gotten involved yet.

>> That's right. >> And I want to get him more involved in the detail, not in the execution of it.

You can do the execution. You're the nerd. You're good at it.

>> But I do want him to be involved in feeling the emotional weight of the plan

that is going to be executed, the detail of the plan that's going to be executed.

>> That's right. And even in every dollar when you can see that road map in front of you and you know it's going to take x amount of months and something that you think is small three or $400 a month that adds up to time that this is going to take to finish this. So >> yeah. So we're having a kitchen put in one of the houses that we own. And um

obviously my wife's going to be real involved in that design. >> You think? >> And and so she's real involved in the design. I'm real involved in the design >> because I want to oversee it. Yeah. The builder is understanding the design and

the three of us have gotten indepth

detailed agreement with the kitchen designer of what is going to happen on

paper.

>> Then they build the cabinets.

>> We don't get halfway through the cabinets and then I walk in and go, "Well, that wasn't really what I was thinking." >> Yeah. You know what it's going to be. >> You know, and and that's the proper way to build a house, too, by the way. Build it on paper. before you break ground

>> every detail.

>> And the and if you have 42 change orders as you go up because you didn't think this through, it's the most expensive and slow way to build a house and you'll end up hating your builder and he'll end up hating you. >> So instead, you got a stinking plan and you stick to the stinking plan with rare exceptions. And everyone is aligned in

the detail of what the plan looks like and then someone can go execute the plan. But we all three aren't going to build the cabinets. Matter of fact, none of the three of us, the builder, me, or Sharon are going to build the cabinets.

A cabinet builder is going to build them. But it's the same thing, right?

But we're getting aligned on the idea ahead of time, both strategically and tactically. Strategically is alignment in the philosophy of debtree. Tactically is the alignment of we're not spending this, we are spending that.

>> Yeah. >> And then she can write the checks.

>> Yeah. Well, then you can also both all three have accountability and in their case all too have accountability to be able to say when something's going off plan. >> Yeah. And I appreciate you honoring him for him working so hard but that does not give him a pass on being a man.

Lots of people work hard. Call the ambulance. I work hard. Shut up. Okay.

Seriously, that doesn't mean I work so hard so I get to be stupid. That that's not a that that's not a line that anybody should ever say, you know, but we do. We say, "Well, I work hard. I feel like I earned it." Earned what?

Stupidity. Earned not being rich. Earned

being deeply in debt. What did you earn with this hard work? You know, no, I want to get somewhere with this hard work. I want some dad gum traction. I want to be a millionaire, multi-millionaire. I want to be outrageously generous, blow people's minds. I want to be torn up with this whole thing, guys. And and that's what

hard work should do. Not give me permission to go, I still I worked so hard, so you know, now I get to be a little boy and be irresponsible. No. No.

And by the way, buying a motorcycle or gun is not irresponsible, but it is while you're trying to get out of debt.

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John is in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are y'all?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I steal that line, so I hope you don't have a trademark. >> Nah. >> Um, >> I stole it somewhere. I just forgot where.

>> It's funny. Um, so it's an interesting

predicament. It's not really a predicament. And I'm really fortunate to be in the position that I'm in and the Lord has treated me uh treated me great.

But essentially the last two years I've

made about about $300,000 plus or minus.

>> Good for you. >> Um thank you. Um and

it kind of seems like the money just disappears. I'm not a big spender. I mean I've bought big things but I'm not a big spender. Um, but

I just I don't have as much money left over from that as I should. And where the change is is yesterday I made a

pretty big amount of money and I'm I mean the first thing I did was log on and talk to people and how to build a shop on my property and I kind of stopped myself. I was like, "All right, this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing." So I'm 28 with this much money.

I'm trying to take a step back and be like, "All right, how do I turn this into more without spending?" Um, and just wanted some insight on it and >> Good for you. Are you single?

>> I am. Yes, sir. >> Okay, cool. All right. Well, the good news is you don't have anybody to control but you. The bad news is there's nobody to gripe at you.

>> I mean, you have no accountability.

>> Right. Right. >> How do you How do you make the money? What kind of business is it?

>> So, I'm a land broker, so I sell like farm, ranch, and hunting and fishing.

>> Good for you. That's fun. I've got a friend of mine that does that. He makes that kind of money and more. Yeah. Well done. That's great. >> I'm really fortunate to have a job that I love. >> Yeah. Yeah. I get to walk around on beautiful land all day long. That's neat. All right. Our drive on it. Um

>> so here here's the thing.

The emotion that you're having is that

um it's regret.

It's disgust that says I make too much money to have nothing to show for it. Yuck. It's a bad taste in the back of your mouth, right?

>> Yeah. I would say yes. >> Yeah. And I want to use that and say, "Okay, I'm going to lean into that and and use that to say that's going to force me to fix this." cuz you don't want to wake up 10 years from now and

have made $4 million over the last decade and have zero except a new shop in the backyard, >> you know, and that's what you're saying.

You're saying that out loud. So, the first step to solving a problem is recognize there is one. So, you're right on target. >> The way you fix it is you develop a detailed game plan before the month begins.

Okay? And and so download the Every Dollar app and we'll give you a year free on it. Okay?

>> Okay? >> And and I want you to start with saying, "Okay, this is my monthly budget." Now,

your budget is erratic because your income is

>> it's also cyclical, which is why this is important now. >> Exactly. But >> yeah, >> we also need to let a b set a baseline of what it takes to operate survival per

month. Okay. So, if you're making 300

and we said, "Okay, we're going to spend $10,000 a month." That's 120.

>> Uh to operate the household,

>> that's >> that's about what it is right now with with mortgages, and I do say that plural and uh >> not a bad guess then. Okay. So, but if it's if it's a little bit more, a little bit less, I don't care. But some but set that baseline and lay that out and say, "Okay, where does this $10,000 per month go >> or $12,000 per month?" Give every one of those dollars a name. And then beyond that, I would do one of two things. Is I

would have a list forced ranked of where

extra money goes. force ranked meaning the first dollar beyond $12,000 this month that comes in goes to this number one thing until it is completed. Then the number two thing until it's completed. Then the number three thing. And so you've got a a a prioritized

spending list beyond your operating

monthly budget. Does that make sense?

>> It does. >> That spending could be generosity. It

could be buying a shop in the backyard.

It could be investing.

It could be paying off the mortgage, but

you know, I'm if I get an extra 10 grand, the first 4,000's going to this and the next 6,000 is going to this and have that done before you get the money.

You know, it's laid out and and you're just going like doing a to-do list. The most important thing I'm going to do first and then I mark through it and only then do I move on to number two and I mark through it and then only then do I move into number four and mark through it. And I've lived off of that system

for 30 years because I've always had an

irregular income because I've always been self-employed.

>> Yeah. The the I think one of the hard

things for me, which I say hard, it's not I mean it's very doable and I know it is, but so I've been in real estate for for seven years. The first year I made 12 grand. Second year I made 24.

Third year I made 76. And it wasn't until the fourth or maybe fifth year

where it really started to pick up. So I mean I was really scrapping, not scrapping, but I was really, you know, having to somewhat pinch pennies and um

fortunate enough to have a supportive family, but um

like m putting this amount of money in this spot when they're big numbers like this mentally is really tough for me. I know it's the right like I completely agree with everything you're saying. And I'd be dumb if I didn't. But um like I

tithe 10% of all money that I let me rephrase that. I donate instead of using the word tithe, I donate I actually have a question on that if we have time, but I donate 10% of all the money that I make. >> And when that goes away, um and then I have taxes and then after that it's like that number just shrinks, just shrivels up so quick that it makes me nervous that I don't have cash.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, think about I get a I get a uh a royalty check in from a

publisher. That's a substantial number.

And uh I'm a tither. I'm a evangelical Christian. I give a tenth of my income to my local church. And so 10%'s gone and 40%'s gone for taxes.

>> So 50% of that check is gone before I even start the budget.

>> Yep. >> And that's what you're saying.

>> So that that's the world you live in.

>> That's just that's just reality.

>> Yeah. you're just one of those evil rich people, then you should be taxed into oblivion. So, >> um, >> well, you just have to tell yourself that off the top. Like, if you know, oh, I've got $20,000 coming in. You It's like you don't even let yourself feel >> I don't have 20, I got 10. >> 10. Yeah. >> That's just the way your brain needs to start working. >> Yeah. And that and and that 10 is already spent on this prioritized list.

>> Yeah. >> And so, I don't care what you do with the money because I know if you do it on

purpose, you're going to do smart things. >> That's right. you know, you're you're very few people say, uh, I'm going to budget, you know, half of my income to completely blow it. No one says that.

No one does that intentionally. They only accidentally do that because they don't have a plan. >> Well, that's what they do. And I've been guilty of it.

It's the I I account for all the necessities, mortgages, car payment, you know, whatever those insurance and then the rest is just in a pile called treat yourself and then that's where all the money goes cuz you think well I budgeted the most important things but that's the zerobased budget teaching which is >> again I don't care if you treat yourself >> but just write it down item just say you you know and if you want to give yourself the whole thing to treat yourself make yourself write it down and then you're going to go that isn't really what I want to do.

Yeah. Yeah. I I really do want to treat myself, but I don't really don't need $10,000 for that. >> I don't really need $100,000 for that.

>> And and you're in control of it at that point, whether you do or you don't. >> So, it's the old thing Maxwell, John Maxwell says, you know, a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And John, that's really this the crux of your question. You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

And you know, you always have some fun in there. You always have some generosity in there. You always have some investing in there. And fun equals lifestyle.

Yeah, >> that's a lifestyle purchase. That's a couch, a car, >> a trip, a shop in the backyard, >> a gun, a motorcycle. Back nod to our last caller, right?

So that's all lifestyle stuff. And that all works really well once you've gotten yourself rid of the consumer debt. Now, if you got any money left after food, lights, and water, it goes on the debt until you're out of baby step two.

That's scorched earth until you're out of baby step two. You get your your every all except your mortgage debt. You get everything cleaned up but that. But that's not John's question. John, you're the question is very simply you have to tell your money what to do before it

gets there. Some kind of a system, some kind of a plan. I gave you an example of one or it will leave and you will wake

up with this financial hangover wishing you hadn't made that much and have nothing to show for it.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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and start filing. Andrew is in Orlando.

Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so my wife and I just got married this last November. Um, and we've been

working ourselves through the baby steps. We're in uh step two right now.

Um, and we've paid off more than half of our debt so far, but we have some to go yet. >> How much is that?

>> We have about 19,500 on a car loan and

then about 4,000 in a credit card.

>> That's what's left.

>> That's what's left. Yes. >> Okay. So, you've already paid off 25,000.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Since November. Way to go. >> That's great. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's been amazing. The Lord has been so good. Huge blessings.

>> Um, so my wife is legally blind in her

right eye. Um, and we've been talking through how we can pay off this debt faster. We're attacking the credit card, super aggressive. Um, but the car, uh, the payment per month is about $420 per month. And once we pay off the card, obviously, we're going to take what we were paying on the card and throw it at the car. Um, but a question that that we have is should we look for something

different? Should we look for a car that's maybe slightly older, maybe a little bit uh cheaper that we can pay off sooner? Um, or or are we Yeah. What

do we do? >> What's your household income?

>> Right now, we're at about 108,000 uh per year. >> Tell me where the blindness plays a role in this. Is it impeding her ability to work?

>> No. Nope. She works full-time. She's um in in the healthc care uh industry selling uh yeah healthcare insurance and everything, but it's mainly with like uh the the distances in front of her, especially at night. It's it's hard harder for her to see, but she does have doctor's approval to to drive and everything. So >> So it's depth perception.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Let's I've got I've got a friend that's Yeah. Same thing. And is your issue with the car? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to save money on the car? Or are you saying because of her blindness, she could wreck this car?

Should we get a cheaper car that it's okay if it gets dinged up? Like what are you saying with all of this?

>> Really? Really just trying to pay off the debt. Like >> it doesn't really have anything to do with the blindness. >> Has nothing to do with it. >> Okay. Yes, >> that's good. I like that. So if you paid off 25 since November, can you pay off 25 by November?

That's a great question. I I I think we

could. >> Do you like the car?

>> Yes, we do like the car. >> I would keep it and pay it off.

>> Keep it and pay it off. Yeah. Yeah. The the problem I see right now with it, it's a 2019. It's It's a newer car with,

you know, more sensors and stuff like that. I'm just thinking like, man, like if we do get uh repairs and stuff, can can we afford some of those those repairs on a vehicle like that?

>> Yes, you can. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're driving a piece of junk.

>> That's why you're and you're a tight >> one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, if the

Here's how I'm answering the question to give you the the the framework. I use two pieces or we use two pieces of information to determine if someone's car is their problem. And if the car is their problem, I'll tell you to sell it in a heartbeat. >> Okay? Because it's often the problem.

This car, this show sometimes is called the sell the car show. like the answer to every question, sell the car, right?

Um, but the number one, you do not want

all of your vehicles added together.

Anything with motors, wheels, that includes your stinking lawn mower, your seed, whatever. All added together, your

camper that's in the backyard, all if it's got a wheel or a motor, all your value added together should not be more than half your annual income, >> which would in your case would be $56,000.

Yeah. >> $59,000.

So, um you know that that's what I'm looking at. Uh and yours is not. So, it does not violate that. The second thing is if there's debt on the vehicle,

>> can we be 100% debtree except the house

within 2 years without selling the car? And if we can,

do we like the car? Then yes, keep the car. But for instance, in your case, if the car was >> uh your rate of debt reduction,

>> you're easily going to be within that.

And the car and your cheap car is less

than half your annual. So, you're in pretty good shape. The only difference was she just had a nicer car than y'all when you just got married. And so, she she won that battle and it did but it had debt and yours didn't have debt.

And so, now we got to clean that up. But I think at the end of the story, two years from today with a fully funded emergency fund and your money going into retirement, we're going to be glad she's in a pretty good car. Uh especially if she's got some of the newer features on that car with her depth perception issues. So yeah, I think I think I'm keeping it.

>> And um but you you know, you can sell it

if you want. >> If you just wanted to be free very very quickly, >> you wanted to be free super fast. It's not you're not doing anything wrong by selling it. But here's what's going to happen when you do. You sell it. You get a $3,000 car and you're debtree in six months, uh, four months, and then you build an emergency fund. And then what's the first thing y'all are going to do? You're going to start talking about upgrading these cars cuz they're crappy.

>> And you're going to do that with cash.

And so you're still going to end up two two and a half years from now in the same place that you are now with a paid for decent car. >> Yep. >> And so I you know, it's not it's not the car is not violating anything here. It's just kind of part of your own story.

>> Yeah. I agree. >> Grace is in Fort Collins, Colorado. Hi, Grace. How are you?

>> Hi. Good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have a question related to the gazelle intensity of paying off a house.

Um, we, my husband and I save anywhere from 100 to 150,000 a year um after

expenses and everything. And it's hard to not kind of look at the numbers and and think we have about 500,000 left on our house right now. um to think, you know, let's just try to pay this off in five years. Um but my husband, you know,

he's kind of been looking more into the investment side of things, too. Um as far as so whatever we make, should we do a portion of that towards the house and the rest into investments if we're already doing 15% into retirement?

>> 15% into retirement is all you should be doing. No more.

>> Okay. >> The rest of it ought to go on the house.

Rest of it ought to go on the house. So this 150,000 you're putting on something else, how much is in that account?

Um, in what? Well, so that's what we get basically at the end of the year. A lot of it comes from bonuses.

>> Yeah. But you're putting 15% away. And then you said in addition to that, you're investing 150 grand.

>> Well, that's just what we have in cash saved at the end of every >> Where is it?

>> Um, well, high yield savings.

>> How much is in that account?

>> About 70,000 right now.

>> 70. How did 150 turn into 70?

So, at the end of every year, well, it it'll be about 150,000. >> So, you just stockpile it until the end of the year, and then you decide what you're going to do with it. >> Well, at the end of last year, it was 150. How's it 70 now?

>> So, we just moved last year, so we put a good chunk of money down into the house, but we just kind of accumulate. And then year-end bonuses, >> any money above 15% should immediately go on the house.

>> Okay. >> Not in savings.

>> Okay. And nothing like diversify in other types of um stocks or mutual funds or anything in retirement?

>> No. >> You're already investing your 15%.

>> No. You want to know why? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Because the data tells us it's the fastest way for you to be a millionaire.

We did the largest study of millionaires ever done at Ramsey. 10,167 of them.

>> And the typical millionaire in their first one to5 million of net worth sounds like this. They it took them 12

to 17 years from the time they started getting serious about getting out of debt and building wealth to get there.

They paid off their house in in 11.2 years on average. And there here's what their portfolio looks like. Let's say they've got a million6 in um net worth.

Uh they've got a $700,000 paid for house and 900,000 in their 401ks and or other

investments. But the paid for house and

the for and the fully funded for the 15% going into the 401k is what we found every time.

Every time we did not meet millionaires that said, "Oh, you know, we kept a mortgage and that caused us to have great investing and that made us millionaires." Nope. They got rid of the mortgage like it was a cancer cuz it is.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host. Joy is in Los Angeles. Hi, Joy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah, we are recently debtree um except

at our mortgage and I wonder Yeah. and

I'm thinking if I could afford to go to

Europe to watch Wimbledon. I really love watching tennis and I really want to do it. But then um my husband and I were

talking last night and when he saw like how much we're going to spend me and my it's only going to be me and my son and he's like uh that's a little too much.

It's going to you know delay our our

baby step number three.

>> So you don't have any money saved?

>> We do. We do have money saved but then

you know it's gonna we I will take the money from there and so it's going to delay our >> Okay. So you have an emergency fund saved of how much?

>> Uh we have 15,000.

>> Okay. And um how much do you need in your emergency fund >> uh for the trip? >> No. How much does the e the 3 to 6 months of expens?

>> Oh 24,000. That's so that's the target

and your household income is what the target >> um about $320,000 or sometimes 350 if my husband goes on

overtime. >> Wow. How much does the Wimbledon trip cost?

>> Well, um the tickets are about $1,000

for my son and I. And you know when we were the ticket? >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. The whole trip. The whole trip. No, you're not going to London and buying a Wimbledon ticket for two grand.

>> I'm talking about when you price this whole deal out, the tickets, the airfare, the hotel, how much will it cost?

>> Oh, so the total is 9,000.

>> Okay. >> Oh, okay. That's right. >> So, the air the the airfare alone because of what's happening, it's about $4,000. >> Listen, I'm not I'm not mad at the number. I just wanted to get to it. And my question is with the $320,000 income

>> and and when when actually when do you have to have the $9,000 by?

>> So we have the $9,000 already. No, you don't. Um you don't have you have 15

>> of 24. So you don't have 9,000.

>> You're you're Let's Let's clarify real quick. The definition of the emergency fund is for emergencies. Wimbledon is not an emergency. So you can't say I have 15,000 for Wimbledon. You don't.

you have zero dollars towards Wimbledon.

My question and what I'm trying to solve for you is how quickly can we get the $9,000 uh on a $320,000 income and still

make progress towards baby step three?

Because the the next question I have for you is the 23,000 that's your goal. Is that three months of expenses or six months of expenses?

>> That's going to be three and a half expenses. >> Okay. So, I go back to my first question. I want you to have three months of expenses in order for this to even be something for you to consider.

>> And then you would have to pay the 9,000 cash on top of that. Not out of that, on

top of that. Does that make sense? >> Okay. So, what do you guys have planned in the next two months that you can take off of >> your calendar and cut your budget to bare bones >> in order to finish the emergency fund?

Because, you know, Wimbleton's in June >> and so you've got time, July. You've got time. Yeah. >> And um so I think you can probably if you went to scorched earth, Jade's point is you probably can do both.

>> You can finish the emergency fund and come up with the money to go. It looks to me like you can >> because your income is so fabulous.

>> Yeah. >> So, um yeah, work extra. Have you got anything you can sell that you'd like to get rid of to get to cause this to happen? Have you got you know, but I'm going to take every thing out of the budget and go scorched earth to be able to live to be able to do this trip if it's what you want to do. Here's what I won't do.

>> I won't declare a trip to Europe an

emergency. >> No, >> it's not an emergency. >> No. >> Okay. I I wish it was, but it's not. Uh I could declare some things I want an emergency, but they're not emergencies.

And so I have to, >> you know, at some point I've got to categorize these things properly and say one is a wish, a want, a dream, and one is a necessity.

>> Being ready for Murphy. if it can go wrong, it will is paramount for families

to get ahead. And you you guys have been making good money and been broke for a long time and you've finally gotten yourself out of debt and you're finally saving money for the first time in your lives probably. >> And let's talk specifically about why it's important. Dave just hit on the part that this is your emergency fund.

You need it in in case you know emergencies arise. But I do believe that when you're in a in an income situation like you, it's very easy to get lazy and

very kind of like, "Oh, it's okay. I can afford it. I can cover it. If something pops up, we'll just cash flow it." You've got to guard against that, especially because you have an I higher income. >> And that's the part where I I think >> Yeah, agreed. >> You gota you got to be extra careful.

>> So, folks, here's the thing. If you have no money, none. Now, not she that's not her situation, but if you're sitting there with no money saved because you did stuff like this, you know, and not her situation, not picking on her, but have you ever noticed that when you're super broke, your life looks like a country song?

Like everything that can go wrong will.

It's like you have a Murphy attractor beam, you know? It's like beep beep beep beep. If it can go wrong, it will. You know, it's like crap breaks, people get sick, the dog goes out in the street and gets hit. Every I mean, it's like a country song. Everything that can go wrong will. It's horrible. And have

you ever noticed that when you get a little money, all that stuff leaves?

Like, if you got if she's got $25,000 and makes 320,000 and no debt, you ever notice that? It's a different kind of song. It's like smooth jazz now. I mean, you know, it's not it's it's all that crap leaves. I don't have anywhere near the emergencies now that I've got some wealth. My life used to be one freaking drama after another.

And I don't have anywhere near those emergencies. I don't I think I think an emergency fund is Murphy repellent.

>> I Well, >> I think it keeps him away. It >> I think it does, but more than that, I think uh >> it changes the definition. >> It changes like I'm the type of person I am never going to touch the emergency fund ever. I don't care what I do for an emergency.

Not even for an emergency. I will do whatever. Move hell and high water to make it work. >> Yeah, I agree.

That's Sharon. She We have an emergency fund for our emergency fund. >> Yeah. >> So, we never touch it.

You know, I mean, it's like that. But here's the other thing is this. When you got a little margin in your budget, a flat tire, you just fix it. >> You just cash flow it.

>> But when you're broke, a flat tire is an emergency. >> You know that the alternator goes out on the car, it's 500 bucks, 400 bucks. You just fix it. You don't think anything about it.

But when you're broke, every little thing like that IS LIKE, "OH, GOD, THE WORLD'S COMING TO AN END." And

and the drama queen's doing a dance between your ears. I mean, it's just like >> But yeah, so it's very interesting that

the the well the the overarching thing

of what I'm saying is when you get a little bit of money and you have a system >> and you're not just cold, hard broke, your anxiety level just goes way down >> because the drama goes way down. But if you get a little bit of money and you don't have a system, you're going to be looking up. >> Then you're going to be back to having no money again. >> Uh-huh. That's why a third of people who make $250,000 or more are living paycheck to paycheck cuz they thought they could out earn their stupidity.

>> Oo. I tried it. It didn't work. Maybe my stupid was just bigger than my income, but I tried it. It didn't work.

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Michael is with us in New York. Hi, Michael. How are you?

>> Hello, Dave. Thank you so much for taking me. >> Sure. What's up? >> I appreciate it. Uh, I'm 52 years old.

Um, basically starting over. I had some major health issues and I've been permanently disabled for the last 16 years. >> Whoa. >> Uh, yeah. I've got the skills to rebuild a highinccome trades business, but I'm also gaining traction as a published writer. If you were me, where would you put your focus for the next year?

>> Uh, what was the nature of your disability and how have you overcome it?

>> Uh, well, I was a teacher and I taught trades. I taught um welding, metal fabrication, heating, ventilating, and air conditioning and uh I became environmentally ill from the welding fumes. >> Ah, okay. >> So, I had a neurological disorder basically paralysis. >> Whoa. Um, and I, you know, I've I've

learned about, uh, juicing and things like that, and that kept me alive. Um,

and I had, thank God, a long-term disability policy that t my salary all all these years.

>> And, uh, about a year and a half ago, they offered me a settlement. I didn't take it. And then I I looked at my wife one day and I said, you know, I said, I can't live like this anymore. And I decided to call the insurance company.

Um, they offered me the same settlement.

I decided to take it and I took some radical responsibility and uh, I lost 40

lbs. I got off oxygen. Um, and I got a

clean bill of health from my doctor and I'm ready to rock and roll. >> Wow.

>> Yeah. So, the the the the nature of the disability is completely healed and gone. >> No, I mean, I'm still probably permanently disabled um, on paper, but

it's not affecting me anymore. I can breathe at 7 L capacity, even if it's only with one lung. >> Okay. >> Um I I feel great. I green juice every single day. I ground outside. I jump on a rebounder. I'm doing everything that I had to do um to gain my health. Um like I said, I drop 40 lbs. Yeah. The whole thing, man. That's amazing.

>> Congratulations. That's amazing.

>> Thank you. Thank you. I've offer

>> I can't imagine you going back to welding.

>> No, I'm not. I'm actually a master electrician by trade. Um, so so and and

I own I basically did electrical work and mechanical work. So I was planning on maybe um you know starting there with a service business just a high-end business basically myself.

>> Why wouldn't you?

>> While I write. >> Yeah. Good. >> You know um you know it's I I want to be

cautious because of my health. I don't want to go backwards. I still have a young beautiful family. No.

>> So I want I want to do it as intelligently as possible. basically my question was basically you know if it was you like what steps would you take not only to ensure that that I I don't overdo it cuz you know I figured I could probably do it three days a week um 6 to 8 hours a day >> I think you I think you are an expert at monitoring the metrics that are associated with your health you've rattled them off to us it's been the whole sole focus of your last decade and

I don't think you're going to overdo it because I think the instant you do, you're going to know it.

>> That's very true. >> And it's not a permanent thing. It just would be fatigue and you'd say, "Okay, I got to take a week off or I got to slow down back to two days instead of three." Or you're going to know the metrics are going to talk to you because you're doing such a good job of managing your health so intentionally.

Congratulations. So, yes, I think the electric electrician thing is a very

good paying gig. it's 100% predictable

that you're going to go get some money where the publishing the publishing is very hit or miss and um as you know it

takes a while to get it moving and so I think it you know your your foundational underpinning is the electrician and then the icing on the cake the gravy on the biscuit is the publishing stuff and if the publishing stuff finally takes off enough that you never have to do the electrician again so be it that's awesome >> is the primary is the primary drive for you financial or personal fulfillment at this point? >> Uh, at this point financially I I don't have to worry about money at all. Everything my home is paid everything I own for is completely paid for.

My home, my cars. >> Um, I have a brand new truck that's paid for so I can use that to start work. I mean, I you know, I I don't want to buy a van right away. No, >> I want I want to build up to a van when I have the cash to buy it.

That's that's just the kind of person I am.

>> I agree. >> And I would do that as a foundational thing to give you patience with the

publishing thing >> that is also going extremely well I might add. >> How much are you making? What's extremely well? What are you making? >> Uh, well, I'm not really making any money from it yet, but >> then that's not extremely well.

>> Okay. So, so basically >> we measure this on money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Now, 150 or so an article is not not paying any bills yet. >> No. No. But that's it's fulfilling and that's what extremely well means. And you enjoy it and that's what extremely well means. And you're getting some notoriety. That's awesome. But you're still working for free.

>> I basically Yes, I am. >> Yeah. And so you're not ready to turn you're not ready to turn your financial destiny over to $150 articles. So the

the the working for as an electrician running my business could pay for all that for pretty much >> it pays for your life and you got to you can continue to or rebuild and build a good life. A and then again if the

publishing ever the income from publishing ever starts intersecting the line with the u electrician then you can

start to slow down the electrician and you know cuz now you're making a living publishing things.

>> Awesome. And that's where you need to get to, not just the fulfillment piece, >> but that's that's the problem. It's they give you uh it's all it's so gified.

They give you feedback and make you feel like you're really winning and you then you add it up and it's like I made $400.

I >> didn't make any money.

>> But to your point, it's it's if right now his success is defined not monetarily, but that's good because he's got the other thing given money. >> And what a great overcomer's story.

>> So good. >> So such a great story. I mean, everything from the trampoline to the juicer, man. I mean, that's that's very very cool. >> Congratulations. That's taking the bull by the horn. Yeah. I'm not going to I'm not going to be defined by this. I'm going to define it. >> Yeah. >> That's a big deal. Dustin's in De Moine,

Iowa. Hi, Dustin. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, well, I just had a quick question um with the snowball method and cards that have deferred interest. Um, I just started the snowball method about 6 weeks ago. I've been able to pay off about $4,000 worth of debt so far.

>> Good. >> Um, I have a credit card that I put a

washer and dryer on. Uh, it would have been 18 months ago. The deferred interest is going to be due or it's going to hit in next month. Um, it would

take about $900 to pay that off, which I can do. >> Okay. So, wait a minute. Are you saying deferred interest? Meaning the interest has accured but they've just not uh build you for it yet.

>> It hasn't been applied to the to the purchase. Correct. >> What if you pay it off? Does is there no interest if you pay it off early?

>> There'd be no interest. >> Yeah, you want to do that.

>> Okay. So, I can I can pay off deferred stuff um versus just the smaller stuff.

I can kind of go out of line there. >> I I would you know just temporarily.

It's only 900 bucks. Yeah. The zero that's nothing down. 0% interest until X

and then they back charge you at 38%.

Yeah, that's how they screw you. And 89%

of those contracts, people do not pay them off in time. >> Yeah. If you can get out of that, that's wonderful. >> So, yeah, you want to you want to knock that in the face. Uh and and you want to do it a month and a half, two months early, >> so there's no question. >> So they don't say, "Oh, we didn't post it and now we really are going to charge you the interest because our the mail didn't get here or bull crap." Okay. Pay

it and get verification a month early that it's paid.

>> Okay. >> Cuz they're going to try to screw you. It's what they do.

>> Yep. Nope. I I agree.

>> Yeah. And clear clean them up as fast as you can. I don't know how many of them you got, but I Yes. I want to get rid of those.

And if you need to shift your data snowball around just a little bit because you're saving, you know, probably 30 or 38% interest, something like that. 20% over the course of however many of how many months and that kind of thing. Yeah. That's going to it's 100% knock it goes away if you pay it early.

You know, the rooms there they went, right? And uh you know, you buy this couch and not pay for it for 24 months, no payments, no interest. And yeah, that 24 months goes by and an eye blink and then you get charged all that back and almost nine out of 10 people don't do it.

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Well, I wish we could get to every call here, but we can't. The lines are always full, and I know a lot of you get a busy signal. Sorry about that. We do have an alternative, though. If you'll go to ramseysolutions.com, you'll find our Ask Ramsey AI tool there

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It's artificial if you hadn't heard. it's not real. And so, uh, it's going to produce an answer almost as snarky as you would get here on the air. And so, we haven't been able to add quite the sarcasm level to it yet that we have in person, but we're working on that.

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Steve's in Green Bay. Hey, Steve. What's up? >> Um, thanks for taking my call. I'm really excited to talk to you. did. So, I have a very simple question. Um, I'm 62, retired. My wife is 60 and she's

going to work for four more years. I want to know how much we should be contributing to my Roths now because my

investors are telling me that I have a $500,000 um in my investments and there's I only have 150 in Roth and the rest are 401k and IRA and I don't want to create a tax liability for my kids or grandkids. I have two children and four grandkids, but I only have an effective tax rate last year of 10%. So, I just thought I should be contributing more to Roth and they said I'm good because of the way things are going to roll. And let's get your opinion on that.

>> Well, when I first started this stuff with when the Roths first came out, it was after we started this stuff, the Roth came about. Um, I was so excited

that, you know, I was in my 30s and 40s that I could have tax-free growth and I

was pushing everybody to get taxfree growth and I'm pushing me to get taxfree growth and so I had everything in Roth and then anytime I could convert something to Roth I would and so I was always moving into Roth because I was getting tax-free growth. Um, now that I'm 65, it suddenly has occurred to me that there's two other benefits to having everything in Roth, uh, that are even more powerful than tax-free growth

or add to, it's not more powerful, but they add to it. Number one, at 73, I don't have RMDs, required minimum distributions, >> right? >> So, all of your 401k traditional, you're going to have to begin to withdraw at 73 under the RMD rules, >> whether you want to, >> whether you want to or not. So, and of course, the more you have in traditional, the more that check is going to be.

>> The second thing is, and in my case, all of mine's in Roth.

The second thing is is that the Biden the Joe Biden passed the Secure Act and the Secure Act says that all inherited

IAS in other words if you name your kid as a beneficiary on your 401k or your IRA and it's traditional uh if they

inherit that they have to withdraw that money within 10 years on a 10-year

schedule. So they have required minimum distributions. So, they're going to pay income tax on 100% of that and they have

to do it over a 10-year period of time from the time of your death.

>> On Roth IRA, none doesn't apply because

there's no tax to you.

>> And that's why this conver this came up because my father passed 5 years ago, just left 50,000, but I'm still taking that out over time. >> Yeah. You're having to do the Biden withdrawals. Yeah. >> Within 10 years. >> And I just don't want my grandkids or kids because we live simple. We can live on 50,000 a year, have zero debt, never had. And I just want to leave a legacy.

>> Well, here's an interesting calculation.

It it's tempting to move the money that you have in traditional gradually to Roth to keep you from having bracket creep. >> Yeah, >> that's a tempting thing. And you could run those numbers out. You're probably going to have to get a different investment group to help you with that because apparently your guys don't think this way.

But um >> yeah, >> and if you want to get another opinion, you can go to Ramsey Solutions and check with one of our smart investors and have them run the numbers out with you. But you could run, you know, like like bump a couple of brackets >> but not go all the way to 40, not go all the way to 39, right? Um that that's one way of doing it and do a little bit a year and kind of dribble it out.

rate of return and an 18% rate of return on S&P. Now that's not normal, but we've had a ridiculously good last three years, okay, in the market. If you had just moved it all and paid the taxes

three years ago, you'd have had all of

that 60% of growth >> with no taxation.

>> Sounds like you're a proponent. I mean, I >> Well, I mean, it's interesting. I I But, you know, if if we have normal market growth of 10 or 12% a year, right? Um, it does take it takes you a little while to get it back, but if you're healthy and you're 62 and you move seven or

800,000 over >> and that creates taxation of what two or 300 thou 200,000 bucks, you're going to get that 200,000 back in taxfree growth so freaking fast.

>> Well, I was telling that the very least I'd like to do is while my wife is working and has earned income, I can do this for at least three or four more years. >> I would do Roth IAS.

Absolutely. For sure, 100%. Anybody tells you to not continue to invest in Roth IAS, it's only what 80 8,600 bucks at your age, right? You can do >> I think you agree with I think you agree with everything Dave is saying. I think your hangup is that that's not what your tax prof.

Yeah. >> Yeah. But I think you can crunch the numbers out and understand it yourself with somebody and you'll figure out what I'm figuring out here.

>> I I I actually I took a call on this like a week ago. Maybe you and I were on the air together. It was a guy had he had like seven or eight hundred grand and I I sat there and kind of was telling him, "Oh, I remember do do it, you know, kind of do it a little bit at a time and don't get bracket creep." And then it's suddenly at the end of the call, it occurred to me, >> you're missing out on all of that opportunity cost on that tax-free growth all those years.

While while you screw around with, you know, dribbling it out to avoid bracket creep over 5 years, you've all that money now has grown has been taxable. All that growth is taxable and it wouldn't have been taxable. So, I mean, I I think there's something to be said to doing it all and rip the band-aid off.

Mathematically, I think you might come out ahead. I You got to run some numbers to be sure. I'm not positive, but it's something to consider and something to look at. And I would get a different set of eyes on it cuz you're in anytime you

have an investment professional in your life, their job is to teach you, not to tell you.

And if they don't teach you, in other words, they start saying all that stuff, you go, "Okay, wait a minute. You're telling me I don't want to save in a tax-free account?

>> Of course, I want to save in a taxfree growth account. What kind of you know what do you you know?" Oh, no. You know,

yes. So, yeah, I do a Roth every year

and my net worth's hundreds of millions.

Okay. The building I'm sitting in is 600 million. Okay. So, the uh you know, and

I do Roth backdoor Roth Sharon and I do them every year. I'm going to keep the government's hands off of every stinking penny I can legally because I don't want them to buy a $22,000 toilet seat with my money. And that's what they do because they're idiots up there. And so I I just I don't want to give them money. It's not good stewardship. Not if I don't have to legally. And so I'm going to do It's the time of year when I'm pissed off right now. It's tax time.

So just just bear with me people. But that's it. I mean that's the thing. >> Yep. Absolutely. So you got to but >> the Roth IRA moving everything to Roth people >> that ain't bad >> or or overtime >> it's it it gives you two things I had not considered early on and that's no RMDs and no inherited IRA forced withdrawals >> and so your kids get a Roth IRA zero

income tax on it. Now neither one have estate tax on them. That's not an estate tax issue, but it's an income tax issue for your kid cuz it's a taxable account that they inherited or an non-t taxable account that they inherited. Something to think about. And um think about the

what if they held let's take a million dollars and they hold that seven years after you die because they don't have to withdraw it under the Biden rule. >> It's going to double. >> It's going to be another million dollars. >> The million will be$2 million. >> That's right. And then what if they hold it 14 years? >> Oo, >> it's going to be 4 million. >> Building that wealth >> and all of that is without taxes.

>> Yummy, yummy, yummy, honey.

Heat.

Heat.

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Might not be in all states.

>> Okay, today's question comes from Nicole in Colorado. She says, "My husband passed away unexpectedly in 2021.

>> Sorry about that. Thankfully, he had a $1.5 million life insurance policy,

which I tithed on when it was received.

I was able to pay off our home and put 1 million into mutual funds and retirement investments. I pull from the non-retirement funds as needed for expenses. How do I tithe on the money I

withdraw? I know I'm supposed to tithe on an increase, and I want to make sure I'm honoring God with the blessings he's provided. Um, it sounds like you already

tithed on the money when you received it. says, "I tithed on the insurance policy when it was received." >> You'd be tithing on the growth. If if the policy I mean, if the investments

made $120,000 in growth, >> Mhm. >> then that's your income for the year.

>> And you would tithe on whatever they grew. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. And you could, you know, you could do it one of two ways mathematically. You could either I don't tithe on investment growth until I take it out.

>> Okay. because it's it's tied up in there. So, I've got retirement accounts that have grown and I have not paid on that growth until I use that money.

Okay? I don't tithe on the increased value of real estate >> until I sell it.

>> Okay? That's when I would tithe on it.

And so, what I would tithe on in your case, Nicole, is whatever money you're taking out. If you're only taking out growth, okay? So, let's say you've got the million dollars in there and let's say it made 10%. That's a $100,000 growth, but you're only pulling out 60,000.

Then I would tithe on the 60,000.

>> If you're pulling out 120,000, but it

only grew a 100red, then I would tithe on the growth, the 100, >> not the >> not what you pull out. But what you pull out is the if if you don't pull out all the growth, I would only tithe on what you pull out. That's what I personally would do. Now, let's cloak this in an

understanding that um

you can't outgive God. Number one, so

giving you never hurts. You're never going to be you can't overgive.

>> That's such a technicality. >> Yeah. And and number two, don't get caught up in legalism because God

doesn't love tithers more than he loves non-tithers. He loves everyone. Okay?

And um and and so if you mess this up,

he's not gonna like, okay, it's not it's not a salvation issue. You're not going to get smacked around. Okay? That's not that you can't that's not he's not a He

loves you. He's got a plan for you. He has us to give not because it's a rule

and not because we're trying to please him. He has us to give because we are

the best version of us when we are givers.

We are more like Christ, Christlike who

gave his life, right? You know, and and the father gave

his son. We're more most we're more like

them when we are giving. And that's what he wants to tap into by teaching us to be givers. And the baseline for those of us that are people of faith is a tithe, a tenth of our income. But don't get caught up in the legalism of it like you're trying to please God with this.

He's already pleased. Honey, you're a widow. You have a special place in the scriptures to be taken care of and loved and blessed and prospered. And that's what your father wants for you. So do this with an open hand and an open heart with no compulsion, no uh need to follow a rule. Instead,

it's I'm learning from my father how to be a giver. He's teaching me and so I'm

going to give something. Be careful not to get caught up in the details.

>> Yeah, agree. >> It'll drive you nuts. You can really get in what the old what the old King James called the jot and tit, the crossing of

the tees and the dotting of the eyes.

>> Got you. >> Yeah. The legalism. Yeah. Andrew is in Houston. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> I'm doing all right. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes, sir. So, my question uh is in baby

step two. Um and when you're listing out

debts, and it has to do with an upside down car loan. >> Mhm. Um, so we we just finally got real

serious about about debt and hate and being stupid. >> Uh, started budgeting. Uh, listed out all the debts. >> Mh. >> And one of our dumber decisions was this car that we're now underwater on.

>> Mhm. >> So my question is, and this is based on God has blessed us with um the opportunity to learn to be mechanics on two beater vehicles. So we have those.

the opportunity to learn to be.

>> Yes. So, >> bless your heart. >> With some subpar mechanical assistance from myself, they they get from A to B. >> Yeah. The the YouTube instruction manual. I got you.

>> Yes, that is correct. So, this car um

one, it's it's a turdmobile. Um but it

we owe about 113 on it and it's worth

about 72.

>> Uhhuh. And so my question is when I when

I list it in the list of debts, do I list it at the 113 >> or do I prioritize it at the negative equity with the plan to sell it as soon as we break even on it?

>> H So put it in there as a $4,000 level

in the debt snowball or the $11,000 level in the debt snowball.

>> Correct.

>> I'd put it at the four. >> I would too. I'm glad you said that.

>> Okay. Yeah, I'm making this up right now. I don't know if I've ever had this question, but um >> Well, because that's the amount that you're actually going to put into it >> and we're trying to get out of it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Even I am dumping this thing and

we are moving on. >> Now, what are you doing uh to replace it? >> I got He's already got two beers, right?

>> Mhm. I do. >> Okay. So, you're good.

>> Yes. I have two old Fords that each have about 200,000 miles on them and they get where we need to go. >> Yeah. What's your household income?

uh combined uh after taxes and everything, it's about 77.

>> And how much debt have you got? Not counting the house. >> Uh 58,000 non-mortgage.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Good for you. So

So here here's what this sounds like to me. It sounds like to me you're going to have decent cars that you paid cash for

in 36 months.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's that's where I think you're going to be. In other words, you're going to be debtree, have your emergency fund, and save up and move up in cars.

>> And I think that's going to take you about 3 years.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. You're you're a good man. You've got this figured out. I can hear it in your voice. You've got this dialed in.

If your voice if your wife is as aligned on this as you are, you guys are going to become very very wealthy over the next 20 years.

>> Okay. Yeah, we are 100% in agreement.

Um, and yeah, there was a lot of like uh

shame and fear about debt and we've sort of sat down and like no, we're we're going to get serious about it and there's there's hope now. So, >> yeah, you you've owned it and punched it in the face. I hear it.

>> I love it. >> And uh the the level of personal responsibility you're taking in the verbiage and even the voice tone that you're using is we can hear that you're going there. >> That's pretty cool. >> Yeah. Cuz you know what? what causes how

us how we can read that from being on the air for years, both of us, right?

And you know this, we can all of you can hear it too. You're listening. You heard he's this guy's serious. He's not screwing around. >> He's thinking about >> no excuses. Game on.

>> That's the difference. He's thinking about ways to get this done, but they're not ways that are excusing work or excusing the process. It's all about how can I do my part to get this done?

>> How can I grind the most efficiently?

Yeah. And here's the reason that that is

so so indicative, such an indicator, a

metric on where his future's going to be. Because personal finance is not a

math problem. It's a behavior problem.

It's 80% behavior, 20% math. About 20

you the mathematics of becoming a millionaire you learn by the sixth grade.

You do not have to have a master's degree in business from MIT to become a millionaire. There's nothing that they teach you in that that causes a millionaire. Everything you needed to know mathematically, you learned by the sixth grade. The problem is the person in my mirror. This guy can do some

stupid stuff. This guy has a PhD in

DUMB.

This guy likes donuts. I can be skinny and rich if I can control this guy.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. studio.

Jade Wallaw, number one bestselling author and Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. Sarah is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Sarah, how are you?

>> I'm doing well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I have been, you know, uh, watching your show for the past uh, couple years diligently and uh, you know, during the past six months or so, I really try to hone in on doing, you know, the baby steps, then the debt snowball. Good. Um, but my my main question is today, um, should I decrease

what I'm putting away from my retirement right now to try to combat some of this debt? So, I am a single mom who, you know, is a single income household, everything. Um, and I mean, I have a car payment. I don't have a ton of debt, but I I work uh full-time and my daughter's

in school, but I ran into some debt over

uh the past six months or so. We had the government shutdown. I am a government employee. Um I work in an admin position and we had the shutdown happen last year in October.

So I wasn't paying being paid for, you know, a few months and you know everything was still coming in where you have to manage the credit card, the child care cost and stuff even though the mortgage was on hold. Um, so when the money came in and I eventually got back paid, I started, you know, just paying down um some of the credit card and uh right now I just have credit card.

on credit card. And >> you got $18,000 in debt in three months.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm saying I'm saying in total um because I had a couple things I could >> Oh, you acted like the shutdown caused it. That didn't cause it. >> Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Sorry. Um, so I took out a I had to do a

bathroom remodel on my tub shower uh for when I bought my house and you know it had pieces of the metal kind of cracking off and stuff. So that was more of a safety issue. So I had

>> Stop. Stop. So you have $18,000 in credit card debt. How much do you owe on your car?

>> Uh about 30,000.

>> Any other debt? >> And what do you make?

>> Uh about 75 to 78,000 a year.

>> Okay. Your car is insanity.

>> It's half your income. >> It's killing you.

>> Yeah. So, yeah, my car is is right around uh 30,000.

>> You bought a car twice or three times what you should have. >> Do you know what it's worth if you were to sell it today?

>> Oh, at least uh I could at least get

22,000 for it.

>> What I want you to do is double check that. I want you tonight to go on Kelly Blue Book and look at private sale and see what you would get for it. Not what CarMax would give you. Not what you see what I'm saying.

See what it would be if you sold it yourself because that'd probably be my first order of business because to Dave's point, it is a huge part of your world right now and it's a huge part of your debt. >> Way too much. >> Yeah. I I really didn't want to get into this car debt.

You know, when I did, I wanted to I tried to um you know, wait almost another year or so to get a new car, but I bought a $30,000 car. You should have bought a $10,000 car. >> Mhm. Yeah.

>> Let's get back to your first question, which is, do you stop investing in order to attack this debt? The short answer is yes.

>> Um, so they take it out of my paycheck every every two weeks. Um, so 500 goes

towards Oh, wow. >> my >> Yeah. And then my mattress.

>> Okay. So 500.

>> Yeah. I would stop in a 2,000 a month.

>> Okay. because that's that's bi-weekly, >> right? I would stop investing immediately because you need your hands on that money to clean up this mess.

>> Now, let's talk about why a little bit because you're you're doing this you're doing good things. You're just doing them out of order. So, let's get you back on the right track.

>> Um, >> if you're familiar at all, have you heard the terminology of the baby steps?

>> Yes. And I had the emergency fund put away. you know, I had the the thousand put and I was um within the last year and a half, you know, I just I I got divorced two years ago and I was taking on a lot of the debt myself where I bought a new house, not a new house, but you know, a new place to live. Um I handled the fee, like the lawyer fees and everything, um paying for childare and now managing the mortgage and everything by myself.

>> So, you're feeling behind. You're feeling behind and you're feeling like I need to get caught up. You're not behind. >> You're you're doing fine.

You need that thousand dollar at your disposal temporarily. >> It's just it's it's a short-term >> sacrif,000 debt and while you clean up the new $10,000 car debt >> because we're getting rid of the 30,00 I it's it's like it's a total of $18,000 in debt because uh the bathroom remodel I owe about 10,000 on that.

>> but you so so you need to get rid of the car and pay off $18,000 and then you're debtree, right?

>> Yeah. and get a $10,000 car and then you got to pay that off. So, it's going to take you a little while to do this, but it's not going to take you 10 years. It's going to take you one or two years.

>> Yeah. >> And and you're going to be totally focused on cleaning up all the debt because if you didn't have any payments right now, but your house payment, you'd be okay. >> Yeah. >> And you could put the interest rate on the credit card is it's killing me.

>> No, the interest rate on the credit card is not killing you. What's killing you is you're out of control and you're not pounding this debt. You need to be pounding this debt. List your debts smallest to largest. Stop all investing

temporarily. Stop all lifestyle temporarily. Get rid of the $30,000 car

and knock these debts out. And that's when this is going to work. >> Let's talk about why it's in that order.

uh baby step two being paying off all of your debt besides your house and then going to baby step three to 6 months of expenses and then getting to the 15% of retirement because I think that's that's the hardest part for people is to temporary pause temporarily permanent

pause it would be the wrong answer >> right >> but it's not a permanent pause >> it's temporary but a lot of people would say oh well it's just a little bit I can get the match but there really is a lot of thought behind that and for me the biggest thing is you want to make sure that you're setting your habits up the right way because if you're investing in a situation like this lady here, she's putting money aside. Let's say she does

um finish, you know, get a little bit bit closer to paying off debt, but something pops up and she's like, "Oh, I need the money for this." She's going to look over at that retirement and go, "Well, there's some money over there. I don't have 3 to 6 months of expenses.

Maybe that's some money that I can pull from." So, it's not setting the foundation properly. Whereas, if you say, "Okay, if I have all this money, I can get out of debt even faster, which means I can set up my 3 to six months even faster." It just puts you on a light warp speed that allows you to accomplish those goals so that when you finally start investing, you never have to touch it. You can set it and forget it. You never think about it because the money that you need is there in your emergency fund.

It's there in your budget because you've paid off all your debt. >> Yeah.

100% chance. Dave, you need to be positive. I'm positive you're going to have emergencies.

It's going to happen 100% of the time.

The only question is how you gonna cover them. Are you gonna have a plan and have a rainy day fund when it rains? It's going to rain. Have an umbrella. Mhm.

>> It's going to rain. Have an umbrella.

Quit walking around. This is not about Skittles and unicorns. >> Yeah. >> This is It's going to rain.

You need an emergency fund cuz if not, you're going to put it on a stupid credit card and then you're going to go, "Why am I so broke, right? Or you're going to clean out your 401k for your emergency." And guess what they do? They charge you a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So, you just borrowed the money at about 35% interest in taxes and penalties is what it works out. Well, that was dumb. Oh, you need

an emergency fund.

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free. Did I mention it's free? Go to ramseyolutions.com/checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protections that you need. Donna is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Donna. How are you?

>> Hello. I'm good. >> Good. What's up? a question about indexed universal life policies. My husband and I are going to stop I know contributing um now that we know better. Uh but we have a little bit of a balance. Each of us have about 28,000 that we're going to be withdrawing. I would like to put it on the house >> or maybe a four uh or maybe into a Roth

IRA and wondering what you would suggest. >> Cool. Uh where are you out on debt? Do

you have any debt left at all?

Uh mortgage too. >> Just your mortgage. Okay. So, you're doing baby steps four, five, and six, right? >> Yes. >> So, you're putting 15% away in retirement already.

>> Yes. >> Good. I'd put it on the house then.

>> Yeah. That's >> okay. >> It's a big chunk. What?

>> That's what is that 56,000 you'll take away from this?

>> Yes. >> I love that. >> Oh, you both have 28.

>> Uh-huh. >> Oh, wow. What do you owe on the house?

>> 250. >> Uh 250. >> Oh, wow. Very good. Okay. So, down to 200. And your household income's what?

>> Uh about 320. >> Oh, cool. You're going to knock this house out in no time. Very

>> We want to get it out in about a year and a half. >> Yeah. You're on the way. Definitely throw it at the house now. I'm getting real excited. That's fun.

>> I know. Me, too. >> That's fun. How old are you guys? >> All right. 54, 57.

>> Yeah, your millionaires are getting ready to be. Well done. Very good job.

Jesse's in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hi, Jesse. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you? Praise God.

>> Yes, sir. How can we help?

>> Well, I got a question for you. So, I'm 58. My wife's 56. Retirement's coming.

I'm probably around my age, 62. She won't quite be there yet. Um, but the question is is when we go both to retire

from the companies and I want to transfer the 401k that I have and then what she has into an IRA or roll it

over. I don't understand why can't we combine um >> IRA and 401ks retirement plans do not

have a marital >> uh component to them. They're all for individuals only.

I don't know why you would need to combine them because if you're both have access to the money because you know you're working together. >> Well, I'm just >> Yeah, but you can't put both names >> when we retire to combine them into an IRA to get more of a compounding effect.

>> Yeah. >> No, it doesn't change it. >> It doesn't change the compounding at all.

>> Two accounts of $100,000 each compound

at exactly the same rate as one account of seven of 200.

I gotcha. >> You get no compounding advantage by combining them. Zero.

>> I gotcha. >> Yeah. So, no loss there. No problem.

It's just a legality, a technicality.

And so, your 401k rolls over into an IRA in your name

and you name your wife as a beneficiary.

Hers rolls over into her name. She names you as a beneficiary. And as you pull money out of either one or both, you're

sharing the money because you're married and we're talking about this. We have a combined approach to life and that's how

people prosper the most.

>> So yeah. Yeah. You're you know, so you're right on track with all that. But um you know, but my wife has been a full-time mom since she was 40. So the retirement accounts are 90 some odd percent in my name.

I mean, we've got we've done Roth spousal Roth IAS for her every year, but they've not added up to nowhere near what I can put in my 401k here at Ramsey, right? And so, I've got >> Mhm. >> the vast majority would be in my name, but, you know, she's got legal access to that in the event of a divorce. Uh, she's got uh, you know, beneficiary access in the event of death.

She's got practical access in the event of life because I I'm obviously going to share it with her. and my wife if we need any of that money. We'll probably never touch it, but that that's neither here nor there.

how you get at it. But that's a good question. And you know, that's a common misconception mathematically. So, and the way you can run it off in your head is let's say that um you had $100,000 at

10%. That means you'd have a $10,000 growth and you got another account that has $100,000 at 10%. That's another $10,000 in growth. or you had a $200,000

account at 10%. That's $20,000 in

growth. >> And the other two were 10 each. So, it's exactly the same. And the next year when it compounds, it's exactly the same.

It's just it's just in one pile versus two piles. >> Our brain likes to see a big pile.

>> The total the total is still the same.

The aggregate is still the same. And often times people run into that. So, John's in San Francisco. Hey, John.

What's up?

>> Not much. How are you? better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So, I have a pretty weird kind of situation. Um, I'm 28. My partner and I,

um, are looking possibly buying a home.

We don't know. We're currently renting.

Um, I have about a million dollars in

assets tied to some watches that I've been collecting and buying and selling since I was 18. And I don't know if I should possibly sell some of them or all of them. Try to put a down payment on a house or to buy a house.

>> Wow. >> Wow. Yeah. Are >> are any of them heirlooms or like no

legacy pieces?

>> Uh, no. I I have been really fortunate.

I've built great relationships with a bunch of watch dealers and boutique. So, I bought all of them at retail with the exception of like one or two.

>> Okay. And um I'm curious, have you tracked how they've appreciated?

>> Yes. Oh my gosh. Have I? I've some of them I've been really fortunate. I have a couple of protects. I have an Aquinaut and a Nautilus. Those have both doubled in value. I bought them for a bit under 100,000. I'm really fortunate. Combined, we make about 400,000 a year. So, >> how long ago did you buy them at 100,000 and then they doubled?

>> That was 2018, I believe. 2017. So, this is before the kind of watch boom sort of happened.

>> I didn't know a watch thing happened. I >> was going to say I didn't know there was a watch boom. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. A lot of people start buying and selling in co I've been really fortunate. I got a bit earlier and a lot of my watches have appreciated in value.

>> Well, in in general, collectibles, which watches would be,

guns would be, art would be, wine would be, in general, collectibles do not outperform the market in appreciation.

The exception to that is if you add in

some expertise. So, an art dealer will

make more on art than he would make in a mutual fund. You will make more on watches because you're completely freaking nerded out about them. Um, >> it's a it's bad.

>> Yeah, it's like OCD. Yeah, it's awesome.

I love it. And it's fun. It's amazing that you did that you have this. Uh, but overall, you know, you just ask yourself where 10 years from now, what would I rather own?

And not just mathematically, emotionally, relationally.

And so, what do I want to own with my wife 10 years from now?

>> Uh, I I personally want to own a house more than I do a collectible.

>> Now, I've got a bunch of cars. I've got a bunch of guns. And I would, if I didn't have a home, I would in a heartbeat get rid of those and move into

move that money into houses. It's hobby for me. It's not anywhere near like you've got. That's crazy, John.

That's That's me. I've never had a call from somebody had a million dollars in watches. >> I mean, I'd play urgency into it as well. If you're if it's not an urgent thing to buy a house, if you hold on to them a little while longer, you have a really nice income, you could start to cash flow more of that house and have to sell less of the watches.

So, I think that there's probably a play where you could keep some of these, the ones that mean the most to you, and still cash flow the house if the home is not urgent. Yeah, I have noticed that sometimes when people are doing something like this, and I've noticed a couple times with me, um, that, you know, I'm real enthused about it for a while and then it's like >> fizzles out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Just dump them.

>> Fizzles out. >> On to the next thing.

Hey.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

So, here's an interesting thing. You guys have heard me quote this a hundred times, some of you, but I'm going to do it again anyway. We did several years ago the largest study on millionaires ever done in North America. Detailed airtight research to where if you disagree with the conclusions of this study, you're what's known as wrong.

The data is that tight.

And it's the largest study by far uh that anybody's ever done on millionaires. And so, um, there's somewhere around 24 million millionaires at any given moment in America. And a

millionaire is someone whose net worth is greater than a million dollars. Now, that's the definition of a millionaire.

It's an accounting thing. And your net worth is determined by your assets minus your liabilities. What you own minus what you owe. So, if you have no debt, it's simply what you own. And so when you have a million dollars worth of things, money, 401ks, house, that kind

of stuff, then you are a millionaire.

>> Well, no one should have a million. Well, that's that's it's not a moral construct. It's an accounting function.

It's not enough. That's not that's not what we're debating. What we're saying is there's a simple thing. You either is or you isn't. It's an accounting thing.

And it's not a million dollars of income. And it's not a million dollars of cash. And it's not a million dollars of liquid assets. And it's not it's simply assets minus liabilities. That's

how you define it. Period. And if you don't define it that way, you're wrong.

This is the definition.

A billionaire is the same thing. When assets minus liabilities equals a billion, which by the way is a,000

million.

It's a lot.

So if you have a $100,000, you're a lot closer to being a millionaire than a millionaire is to being a billionaire.

Like a bazillion times closer. Say a thousand versus a tenth, right? 1,000th

versus a tenth. >> That that's a diff that's a big difference. So all of that to say, we've

studied these things. One of the things we figured out was we wanted to track and say, okay, what careers caused

people to be millionaires most often?

The number one career field that became a millionaire, the most that appeared most often in the 10,000 that we studied was engineer.

Number two was accountant.

Number three was teacher.

H didn't see that one coming. Number four, business person, business executive, someone in business of some kind. And uh number five was attorney.

Medical doctor didn't even make the top five. They're number six. >> Wow. >> So you always think of the doctor and the lawyer being the millionaire, right? But they are. But medical doctors are notoriously bad with money. Uh they're stereotypically bad with money. They're like artists or something. You know, it's like, you know, a you know, a music

star is notoriously bad with money.

Football player notoriously bad with money. Same thing. But they're still number six. So, but what we couldn't figure out is how teacher lands in the middle of those things because all of those are highly paid professions except teacher, >> right? >> So, how does teacher land in there? And what we figured out was after studying it a little bit more was that all of those lawyer, accountant, engineer,

teacher, business professional, they all

have a process that they have to submit to and have to

follow the process to do their career.

So when you're an engineer, if you don't follow the process, the bridge falls down. When you're an accountant, there's generally accepted accounting principles. There's not three ways to do accounting. There's one. It's not art.

You don't get to make it up. When you're an attorney and you're in court, there's a process to do litigation and you have to follow the process or you'll be held in contempt and so on. Teachers have to follow a process. They use a a detailed lesson plan. So, these are all process people. So, they simply took that process mindset and applied it to building wealth. And that's how teacher ends up in there. Fun fact is Scott's on

the phone in Spokane, Washington. Scott is a baby steps millionaire and he's a teacher that teaches the Ramsay

Foundation's high school curriculum. Is that right, Scott? >> That is 100% correct, Dave.

>> I wish I had a high school teacher that was a millionaire because he followed the principles that he was teaching me in his class. I would have sat there with wrapped attention.

It it is it is uh fascinating to watch my students when uh I walk into class because I teach the why and um when I

when I uh walk in right and you watch those those light bulb moments with those kids because I tell them on day one uh I I don't want you to have to live the life that I had to live because I learned the lessons the same way you learned them Dave that um I was in debt

and I don't want you to be in debt. I want you to uh live your life the way uh

I'm living it right now in your 30s, not in your 50s. >> Yeah. So, how old are you?

>> I'm 56. >> And how what is your net worth?

>> My net worth right now is 1.83 million.

>> Good for you. And give me a little breakdown on that. How much of that's house and retirement and so on?

>> So, about uh 700,000 is in uh my house

and we just recently paid that off within the last year. Good for you. And then Thank you. And then uh the majority

of it I would say another probably 700

is probably 7 $800,000 is in my

retirement and my um 401k. Then I have a pension attached with that as a teacher.

>> Mhm. >> And then we have in other investments um

I investment accounts things like that and then uh small small portions in savings and checking accounts.

>> Wow. Way to go Scott. So how much of this did you inherit? Uh, none.

>> Zero. Okay. >> We we have a small a very small amount that we inherited that uh helped us pay

off that uh last little bit of my student loans, but uh very insignificant amount. >> Yeah. It did not mathematically cause you to be a millionaire. >> Oh, no. No. >> You didn't inherit your money that you you you got the oldfashioned way. You earned it. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. As you say, you know, uh when you're broke, you go to work. >> I hear you. That's it. So, uh so you've been a teacher for how long?

uh over 20 years. So um it's funny that you had mentioned engineer as well. I was a a computer engineer and an actual engineer in the military. So um uh yeah

I I built those processes and uh applied them obviously but the the the main

thing is right when when you are um teaching the the foundations um it the

kids they just kind of glom on. It's interesting to watch those light bulb moments with with the kids because they really do start to process that information and uh you just kind of

watch them, you know, day one. They're like, "Yeah, whatever." But um you you tell them in in in the curriculum, you tell you tell them on the show uh what

we're teaching you is what grandma taught you. This is common sense information. They look at you like whatever. But um as they go through, they learn and they start to process and begin to just kind of grind at it and

they're like, "Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right." And they they they kind of just figure it out and

it becomes very hard. It's almost second nature and they they figure out really quickly that we we need to avoid debt.

This is not something >> Do they ever say, "Well, Mr. Scott avoided debt and he's a teacher and he's got 1.83 million." I mean, do they ever look at you and go, "My gosh, I got a walking social proof right in front of me." >> Well, it's interesting because I I I am very very honest and open with the kids.

And when I tell them tell them my stories because I I I open up and when I

tell them I had to work three jobs and my kids are like, "Dad, why are you never home?" >> And they I I I mean, some of the kids break down. >> Yeah. They probably relate to it.

>> Yeah. And they relate to it. And they I

have kids crying. I have kids I I had one student come into class the first day of school and go, "It's easy for Dave to say, you know, you don't need a credit card. He has millions of dollars." Four weeks into class, she was like, "I have a I have a friend that wants to get a credit card. How do I talk him out of it?" >> Wow.

>> Love it. Love it. Very cool. Well, how

long have you been teaching the curriculum? >> 14 years. Um, I taught it before it was digital. >> Wow. Wow, I got it out of the book.

>> Wow, I remember that. Oh my gosh, that's

amazing. Very cool. Well, thank you for teaching it and congratulations on being a baby steps millionaire and another hero in the American story right here.

Absolutely incredible. If you didn't know, we have a high school curriculum called Foundations in Personal Finance that's been taught now in 48% of America's high schools. 6 million kids have graduated from it. So, uh, if you can help us get it into your local school, that'd be awesome. And uh some sometimes you need to knock a noggin on the school board, but you know, hey, whatever it takes, baby. That's what we're going to do.

When I talk to people on the Ramsay show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing. Not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar budget app. Every Dollars you

tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up

extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket.

So don't keep living normal. Go download the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Our scripture today, John 1:14. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

And we've seen his glory. Glory as of

the only son from the father, full of grace and truth. Bill Murray said, "People are like music. Some speak the truth and others are just noise."

>> Oh, Mia is in Seattle. Hi, Mia. How are you? >> I'm great. How are you guys? And thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? Um, my question basically in a nutshell is two weeks ago for my 62nd birthday, I paid my mortgage

off 16 years early.

>> Good for you.

>> Well, all my friends, I mean, all my friends are telling me I made the biggest mistake of my life. And now I'm really terrified that they're correct given the current market situations and things. So, I my question was to try to get some guidance from you based on my current situation. >> You need new friends.

Well, let me give you just a quick contents. I'm 62. I'm single. I'm in the

midst of an 8-year canc battle, and my doctor said I won't be able to return to work for the foreseeable future.

>> So, based on that, you know, my friends

are telling me I took my liquid assets

that I had to pay it off 16 years early.

And that was a big mistake because my interest rate was 3.5% and I could have been making more. all the things you hear. But now I'm afraid maybe they were right. >> Do you still have a nest egg?

>> So what I basically um I have is I'm

currently my income I have a disability

benefit from my former employer that um separated me last June for disability of

7,70 a month. And that will end by three

years um the way the policy set up when I turn 65. but it could end previous. I

get a $3,000 monthly SSDI um payment

after the taxes and the Medicare are deducted. >> And then I've got um my assets, my I

have a $80,000 emergency fund in cash

and I have $23,000 in cash for insurance

premiums that are going to be changed in November. And then my investments, I've

got um 1,430,000 in a traditional IRA. You're okay.

>> Your friends are morons.

>> And I'll go I'll go a bit further.

They're they're talking about a stratosphere that they've not yet entered.

So how can they know? You're the only stop for a minute. You're the only one who's actually done it. So don't you think you have a better frame of reference than they do? They've only had debt.

Right. So, I'm debtree. Um, I've got two. >> You're a debtree multi-millionaire.

You're okay.

>> Calm down. >> I Okay. I'm just, you know, with the current situation. >> Current situation. What >> are you? If you're not in Iran and being bombed, I think you're okay.

>> You are in Seattle. But >> because I can't I can't go back to work like I'm going to be. You have a $10,000 a month income and a million dollars.

That's your current situation.

>> Okay. Um, >> you're okay.

>> Okay. Well, I was worried that I'm really not okay. >> What do you think is going to happen? >> What What How would you not be okay?

What current situation are you referring to? >> Well, so for example, my my medical um

is going to change in November because my secondary is co my premiums are going to go up really high. a million dollars.

>> But the million dollars really doesn't, they tell me, go very far. >> Yes, it does. >> It goes a long way cuz it's making a h

100red,000. Is it invested in good mutual funds? >> Well, yeah. So, the traditional IRA is that and then I've got 218 thou 218,000

in a Roth. I've got 17.

>> Is all of that invested in good mutual funds? >> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. So, it's all going to make around $100,000 a year that you're not even touching, >> right? So, I basically structured, you know, how you the the four buckets that you advise, they're in they're in the traditional and the Roth because I have to protect against Irma. So, any capital

gains I make stays in the retirement.

And then and then I've got 440,000 in

municipal bonds and 342 in some core

equities that's managed. So, um I but

I'm trying not to touch any of that.

>> You want you're not touching any of that. You have a $10,000 a month income without touching it. >> And you're going to have that for the for sure for the foreseeable next three years. Well, the the long-term disability benefit, the way my employer wrote the policy, it could go away before three years, but the max I have left on it is three years. >> Yeah. And depending on whether you remain disabled or not. Yeah. >> Right.

>> Even if even if it went away, you'd still be okay.

>> Okay. >> You did not make a mistake.

>> The only mistake you made was in choosing your friends.

>> Okay. >> Or in listening to them. I have some friends that I actually like that are also not smart, but that's okay.

>> Okay. All over me.

>> I I I just looked up how long it would take to wire the money and have it clear so that I got my letter saying the write off was closed on my birthday cuz for my

present for myself. I wanted to free scream. So, I told my I told my friends and then they just I was in tears because they were like, "That's ridiculous." And >> I just think that's jealousy.

>> I do. Well, or idiocy or both.

>> Yeah. Who in their right mind when somebody has done something incredible like that would not celebrate them even if it's not your personal choice that you wouldn't celebrate what somebody else views as a personal accomplishment.

And it's zero detriment to them.

>> Okay. So, but I still have like a 600 a month HOA. So, I have, you know, a lot of expenses. I guess >> Mia, your worries and your math don't add up.

>> Okay. Okay. your worries are a 10 and your math is a one. >> Or let's let's let's be as logical as

humanly possible right now. Who do you think knows more about this situation,

Dave Ramsey or your three little buddies at home? >> No, I I get it. I >> Okay, >> there you go. That's it. >> Honey, you need to breathe. You need to breathe. You're okay. You are in great shape. You have done a wonderful job. I don't know what the house is worth. If it's worth a million, you're in Seattle, it probably is. And you got a million dollars. You're you're a multi-millionaire at 62.

>> I want you to concentrate on fighting cancer. >> Not arguing about whether you should have paid off your house or not. I want you to go beat it. Go beat Go beat the big C. Yes. >> And and live your life, kiddo. Wow.

Matthews in Phoenix. Hey, Matthew. How are you?

>> Good. How you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, my question for you is, um, I'm

recently going out on my own business-wise. I'm in home remodels. Um,

I've been doing it for a long time. I'm just trying to do it on my own now.

>> My question is, I've been cash flowing everything. Our house is bought and paid for. Our vehicle, my work truck, everything's bought and paid for, >> absolutely no debt, >> no credit card. My question is, would it

be a bad decision to take out a small business loan, maybe 2500 to five grand

just to help um backfund this? You know,

I'm doing it. I've been >> back. What does backfund mean?

>> I'm trying to think of the right word. Just, you know, when tools come up that need bought, stuff like that.

>> You've cash flowed everything.

>> Just continue to cash flow. >> Don't stop now. Don't stop now. Don't stop now. Don't Don't fall into the debt trap because when you fall into the debt trap, you have to take jobs from customers that are unreasonable to pay the debt payments.

>> And then you get then you get an unreasonable no fun business to operate because you have to put up with the butts. You don't want to have to deal with the butts. You want to deal with the good people. And you have you don't have to you could send the butts to your competitor if you don't have debt payments. Say, "I think you need to I've got here's my competitor's business card. You need to go talk to him." >> That's so good. and and let them let them worry someone else's ears off.

Instead, you go work with the good people, make some good money and do a good job and help those people and make you some money and you're in a great line of work. Please continue to organically fund it with cash flow, no

debt. Please, Matthew, please do that.

Just swing that hammer, turn that wrench, baby. You got a great thing going and you're in a you're sitting on a gold mine if you don't screw it up by going into debt. >> Absolutely. >> I know lots of remodel guys and repair guys that are running businesses that are half million dollars a year right now. And that's the profit. Hello. They

you can really do good at this. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruze, number one [music] best-selling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here as we talk to you about your life and your money. The phone number is free at 888-825-5225

and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. >> [gasps] >> John is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hey John, how are you?

Doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

Uh I guess we'll get to a little backstory, I guess, first off. I'm 26

and my girl uh fiance, I should say, is 31. Um we don't live together. So, I have a home in a uh right across the state line. She lives with her parents.

Um I have no kids. She has three with three

different fathers.

And me and her are just trying to get on board with the Dave Ramsey plan and I guess you could say struggling with that.

In what way, John? What does that What does that mean?

Well, just uh I presented to her I was

following that route when I met her right at 2 years ago and we we've tried

to do that uh, on baby step two for the both of us.

And, um, I guess you could say just a few problems, you know, not living together, different households, and overall just ain't on

board with the plan completely, I guess you could say. She's not?

Yes. Okay.

So, what you're saying is is that she's okay with her money problems and you're not.

Right. Yeah.

I ain't going to say it's, you know, completely based on, you know, hot and cold, I guess you could say, but yeah, that's pretty much overall that.

Cuz what are the things specific, John, that you're like, "Okay, I want to I want to do this. I want to get out of debt and I want to live debt free." And she's what, in debt, doesn't care to get out, and is okay with it? Like, is that one of the main rubs? You mentioned baby step two, which is part of the plan of getting out of debt.

Or is it saving? Is it investing? Is it giving? Is it all of it?

Well, to be honest with you, it's more so, hey, you know, we talk, we want to

go down this road, we want to we want to be here and do this, and for say, a good

example, we we talk about this, and then

a couple months down the road, which was a few months back, she goes and purchases a new car.

You know, that, and I would say we didn't need, you know.

Yeah. Uh, just overall not, uh,

following, I guess you could say.

Okay. Well, here's the thing. If someone doesn't follow the Ramsey plan and you do, that's the, you know, we're not we're not the Bible. We, you know, we just teach biblical concepts, but, um, but but, you know, you don't judge somebody based on that alone. But what this does indicate something deeper that is disturbing. So, here's the numbers.

The number one cause

of fights and divorce in marriage is

money and money problems.

And it's not really the money, it's what the money represents.

Because it represents your fears, your dreams, what you believe about life, who you believe is in charge, whether you're in charge or somebody else is in charge of your own life, do you control your own destiny, and the way you handle money indicates all of those things, and that spills over then into your It is your value system, and it spills over into your relationship. And so, if we say the number one cause of

Uh if you said the number one cause of uh death in your neighborhood was snake bite, and you saw snakes, well, you're

worried, if you're smart, you know? And so, the number one cause of marriage issues is this, and you've got this issue on the number one thing, and uh she's tried this at some level three times at least before.

Right. So, I'm that that's worrisome. Um

and and so, i- if I'm coaching the two of you and you're sitting in front of me, I'm going to say the way you can tell if your potential marriage is going to work is to the extent you guys can get on the same page and stick to the page, whatever page it is, whether it's got Ramsey written on it, or whether it's got something else written on it. >> and the big and the big subjects of life that we see eye to eye on, in-laws, faith, sex, money. I mean, it's the big stuff, and when we can see eye to eye on the value system, you're just going to have a I don't want to say easier marriage, it's just it it's going to probably cause less tension because you're walking the same direction together instead of fighting against each other always.

So. >> In-laws is one of the four things that kills a marriage. >> Yeah. It's one of the top four.

And so, you know, her mother won't shut up.

And and she lives with them, by the way.

Uh so, I don't I'm not saying that's in the equation. I don't I have no idea if it is here. But, and the same thing with religion. If one of you says, "I hate God." and the other one says, "I believe in God and I do everything he says." Well, that's going to be a problem.

You know? I You can argue about who's right or wrong, but the fact that you're not on the same page is going to be a problem.

So, these are the types of things that the data tells us mess up marriages. And if I know that going in, I don't want to take all the data and remove all romance and love from the equation, but love's not going to overcome those things for 10 years.

>> Well, and there's also, John, and this is not to be judgmental on her by any means. I don't know her story. I We You gave us no context except that she's had three kids with three different people. You're You're You're the fourth one that you know you're starting this life with.

And so, any level of pattern that you see in your life, and hopefully for her

to look back and just say, "Hey, what are patterns in my life um that maybe are not the best things, not not the best choices." And so, and what that can indicate, those character qualities in general, feed into other areas of our life. So, the fact that she says one thing and then goes and It's not like she ordered something on Amazon. She went and bought a new car. You know what I mean?

Like, it was a big purchase. That's huge. It's very different than what was discovered. >> and defiant.

>> So, there Well, there's just Well, it's just a It's a It's a lack of >> middle finger. >> No, no. That's not strong. Yeah.

It's a lack of follow through.

>> that. I'm going to go buy a new car.

That's what that is. >> you said, right? And I don't know why she got the new car. I don't know. There's probably probably more details than But, the But, that That's what I'm saying though is the character quality you have to Yeah. be aware of things that have caused decisions in your life.

And if those patterns can change, then the spouse you're going to marry is going to probably be a healthier person, too, right? So, it's just >> tell John to do? It's a overall It's an overall scope. I would continue to press and have the conversation. I would >> And I would get premarital counseling. >> Yeah, I would continue to push and >> with a coach. and to know the why behind a lot of these decisions for her. Yeah.

What causes her to be okay, you know, with the subject? You could say debt as the subject. Like, what what is in that with her and actually get to the bottom of it cuz there could be a level of digging that you actually find and and you know her more. That's the thing with money.

You you pull a string and it goes all the way down to people's heart and soul and that's in there for her. So, I would if I loved her, right?

does this look like a life that you want to sign up for, you know? Yeah, but if my decision patterns [music] cause me to have a new car in the driveway, I'm 31 and three kids and I live with my parents, I know.

>> [music] >> these aren't patterns. Not great ones.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Problem. Problem.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Shane's in Philadelphia. Hi Shane, how are you?

Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh I've changed positions in the company that I've been working for for the last couple of years and I'm making a significant amount of money over what I

was making initially and it's kind of just piling up in the bank. I haven't invested any of it aside from just a company 401k, which comes out automatically. And I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to these things. So, I've been back and forth reading different things online about what I should be doing with my money.

Um never really done anything with it thus far because I haven't had any professional advice, just what I've read online. So, I'm hoping that you can maybe guide me in a direction of where I should be putting my money to work for me as opposed to earning less than 1% interest in the bank. Good for you. Good for you.

Well, the good news is it's not rocket science. It's not that hard.

Um this is not like learning a foreign language. It's much easier, okay? And so, um it is a bit of a foreign language, but you just have to learn the vernacular and then you'll know what to do. What do you do for a living?

So, I'm in sales. Good. What do you make? Uh by myself or my wife as well?

>> Household Your household income. Why is this money piling up? Um probably just north of 200k gross between my wife

and I. Good for you. Well done, sir. How much money do you have saved? Shane, you said it's just sitting in the bank and piling up. Yeah, so right now I have about 50,000

in the bank. Um I've only been in sales for the last 6 months and I probably had

10,000 when I started. So, I probably have saved 40 grand last >> Yeah, it's amazing. Good for you. Okay.

>> Well, as far as investing goes, there's two principles that if you follow these two principles, you'll find your way through and do just fine. Okay? Actually, there's three, but um I'll give you two. I'll give you all three of them. Principle number one, don't ever put money in something you don't understand.

Okay. >> You have not violated that. Congratulations, you've done very well.

I met with an NFL player one time and I sat down with him and his wife and he said, "Dave, you're going to kill me." And I'm like, "What'd you do? Did you blow all your money?" And he said, "No, I got $10 million." I'm like, "What is it? What Why am I going to kill you? You got $10 million." He said, "It's all in CDs.

It's horrible." And I went, "That's not horrible. That's so much smarter than all the other people you play football with cuz they've all blown theirs or put it in their brother-in-law's pizza company that went broke, you know. So, you know, you're very smart. Don't put money in stuff until you understand it.

You understand it before you put money.

Principle number one. Principle number two, plan to go slow.

The fastest way to get rich quick is don't get rich quick. >> Right. The tortoise wins the race over the hare

every time I read the book.

Okay. >> And I've read it a bunch. Over and over, he always wins. In investing, you always

win if you're slow and steady wins the race. That's the Aesop's fable, okay?

And then the third thing is don't get

financial people in your life of any kind. Real estate, insurance, investing, >> Tax. >> uh tax, whatever. This sound like Charlie Charlie Brown's teacher. Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. I have no idea what you're saying. You might as well speak in German to me.

Okay? And if they can't speak to you in

such a way that they can teach you, they

don't have the heart of a teacher, then they're just a salesman. They're not a financial person.

And financial people are the world's worst because a lot of us are nerds and

we like being impressive with our nerd knowledge more than we are concerned that you learn.

Sure. And that goes back to the first one. Don't put money in stuff you don't understand. So, if you sit down with a financial advisor and you're and your wife and your wife says, "I got a bad feeling about him or her." Don't go with them. Or if you sit down with them and you leave more confused than when you went in, don't go with them.

Okay. They might be okay, but they're not okay for you.

Now, now that we've established that, we can start talking about some of the cool stuff you could do for investing.

Now, we teach a process for building wealth that we've taught for 30 years plus called the baby steps. You probably heard of that, right?

I do. I have. I actually have your Total

Money Makeover book. >> Okay. So, you know then that we're going to have you have an emergency fund and have all your debts paid off except your home before we start investing. Do you have any debt other than your home?

Uh yes, um just my car or my truck and my wife's car. >> And how much is all that?

Um total probably 70,000. Okay, we're

going to pay all that off before we do any investing then.

Okay. That's what we call baby step two.

If you remember the book. And then once that's done, I want you to set aside three to six months of expenses in for an emergency fund. Being out of debt and having the rainy day fund is foundational to keep your investments safe.

Your investments otherwise will turn you'll pull money I'll stop your 401k temporarily.

And knock those car debts out. Take all that 40k and throw it at the smallest car debt. Let's get it all cleaned up.

So, if you got no payments but a house payment and you got I don't know, in your case 30,000 bucks sitting there in a money market account only to be touched for emergencies. It's not a I want to go on a trip fund. >> was one change I was going to say. Open up a high yield savings account.

Fairwinds Credit Union's amazing. Um but they have a great smart bundle. So, put it not in a traditional savings account, but in a high yield savings account cuz it goes from negative I mean basically like not even 1% to at least you're getting 3 to 4% sitting there for your emergency fund. >> emergency >> fund, right.

And then, with no payments, now you start really stacking money, you start putting 15% away in your 401k and Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks.

talk to one of the SmartVestor Pros at ramsaysolutions.com and they can help you. They've the will have the heart of a teacher. They don't get the Ramsey name put on them on our website unless they have the heart of a teacher.

We won't We won't put our name beside somebody that And if we find out someone I'm doing the Charlie Brown's teacher thing, we fire them and get them out of the system cuz we are hardcore about this. So, if you do all of that, you're going to have so much stinking money cuz I got to tell you, one of the highest paid professions in the United States today is a good salesman.

Yeah, it's it's it was pretty night and day. I It's about three times what I was making with the same current company prior to this position and it's just had a lot of nights where I didn't really know what we were going to do for certain things. Read through your book, paid off some debts, credit cards, medical bills. >> Good. Well, you're on your way.

And now we're just at a point where I have too much money.

I don't know what to do with it based off of you know, my own my own ignorance with Yeah. with uh with finances.

>> Well, with investing with investing, you start investing in good mutual funds and they're really easy to understand. It's 90 to 200 stocks. You look at the track record of the fund that was mutually

funded by you, me, and a bunch of other people together. And you go, "Okay, that that group of that pile of money has been growing at an average rate of 11%

or 10% or 22% or whatever it is." And

you look at, "Oh, it's done that for 32 years." Oh, okay, I feel pretty good about that. That's like buying a house in a good neighborhood. >> Yeah, and shame when you get to that that 15%, honestly, the investment advice as you if you dig into more of what we talk about, it's not going to be a lot of flashy stuff. I mean, honestly, the 15% to retirement, 401ks, Roth IRAs,

you know, the standard. And then anything beyond that is just mutual funds, I mean, index funds, like it's it's nothing there's no day trading, no crypto, like what you know, there's nothing big and flashy, real estate, Airbnb, you know, Airbnb investing, like there's you'll find none of that because again, it's it's quote-unquote not exciting investing advice, but the amount of baby steps the millionaires that are at it have have done this and have built wealth slowly over time because it is the most stable way to build wealth versus all the flashiness.

Um so again, it's not it's not super exciting, but it is it is consistent and

it works. >> it actually works. >> It works, yep.

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>> David is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi David, how are you?

Hi David and Rachel, how are you guys?

Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

Cool. Thank you for taking my call. My wife and I are we've been working the baby steps for about the last 8 months,

and we are on baby step six.

Uh we are at the point where we have to

kind of uh navigate uh bad decision we made when we bought our house 2 years ago. We bought a house, and our mortgage is

50% of our take-home pay, and we're just trying to figure out um if it's uh if

it's the right move to sell it uh or if we kind of stick it out and see if we can come up with a better solution. When you say take-home pay, what do you mean is coming out of your check?

So, we bring home $12,000 a month after

taxes. Mhm. Uh and our mortgage is

6,065.

But after taxes, 401k, health insurance, what else is coming in? What's coming out of the check other than taxes?

Uh yeah, 401k, uh health insurance, and taxes. Okay. Taxes is all we're talking about when we say take-home pay. So, how much is going in your 401k a month?

Uh we I do 15% of

uh 100,000 and then my wife's salary is 75,000.

And we do uh 5% of her pay goes into her 401k. Okay,

that's close to $2,000 a month.

All right. And uh and how much is the health insurance?

Uh the health insurance is around uh 200

and $50 uh every 2 weeks. So, 500.

>> uh yeah, we have a we're self-employed.

Um so, our company pays 75% of the health insurance. Okay. All right.

>> [sighs] >> All right. Um well, I mean so, when we mean take home pay, we mean $2,500 more.

So, we mean 14,000 and some change.

Okay? Yes. your take home pay. So, you're that would put you at about 40% uh not 50. But still, it's very tough.

And so, the principle is when your house payment is too big a percentage of your take home pay, you become mathematically what we call house poor. You don't have any wiggle room to do anything else. How much debt have you paid off and how long did it take you in this recent debt run you did?

Uh yeah, we paid off around 120,000

um in the last 8 months. While while fighting this big mortgage.

Yes, sir. Dang, did y'all sell anything?

Uh yeah, one of Dave's probably uh I had

a Shelby GT500.

Uh that I had a while and on, but I did have a decent amount of equity in that car. So, that helped pay off some other debt. Okay. Yeah, it's just a lot. How much of the 120 was that?

Uh that I we sold for 94,000.

>> Yeah, I was thinking. Um, but I did all, uh, 65,000

on it. >> So, 94 of the 120 was one stroke.

Okay. Yep. Cuz you threw the rest of it at another debt. Yeah, so your equity's up. >> I will 94, uh, 94 is what I sold the car

for. I'm sorry. I >> I know. I know, but you threw the other You paid off the car and you took the other 34 and put it on debt, right?

Yeah, correct. >> So, of the two of the 120, 94 was with it just simply moving the Mustang. Yeah.

Wow. Good. That That That made you cry a little, but it was also a brilliant move. Uh, okay.

Uh, other than that then, so that leaves you with 30,000 you reduced during that same 8 months while having this big mortgage. What else did you sell?

Uh, that was the only thing we sold. Um,

we we did have savings. I, like I said, we are very new to this. >> How much was in savings?

Uh, we had a 175,000 in savings and now >> pulled that out and paid off the rest of this. Correct. >> So, you did not cash flow any of this debt reduction then.

Uh, no. Okay. So, we're back to the mortgage being a problem. >> what's left in savings?

Uh, between the, emergency fund and just a high yield savings, around 125,000.

>> What's your balance on your mortgage?

700,000. What's your interest rate?

7%.

You might consider dropping another 100 on that and refinancing it.

You can get a lot You probably get a 5 and 1/2 this week.

On a 15-year fixed. >> one of our thoughts. Get a better interest rate and recast the mortgage

because you're throwing 100 or 150 at the thing, getting it down to 550. I think we got a workable deal. Do you like the house?

Uh, that that's another part of wife and

I are were talking about. We were recently were both saved last year and it's a nice house, but it's we really like to simplify our life and we want to be able to kind of give more right now.

So, we're kind of Well, I mean, if you want to sell it anyway, that's okay. I was fighting to keep it for a minute helping helping you but thinking you wanted to keep it. But, if you want to sell it anyway, it makes the whole equation, right? But, as far as do you have to sell it because of

this uh percentage of your real take

home pay not counting 401k and health insurance, probably not.

Uh but, if you want to sell it and downsize to get a simplified life, use the equity from the house, get a lower interest rate, use the 100 100 and some change, maybe 150 out of savings, dump it on there. I mean, you you're going to have a lot more wiggle room if you do that, obviously.

Yeah. So, we have had the house listed

uh for the last month and we've had kind of 10 or 12 showings and uh it's looking like after talking with our realtor, we probably since the house is so new, it hasn't quite built up equity we before we bought this, before we knew anything about you and didn't put any money down, we'll probably have to pay somewhere around 50,000 to get out of it. That's the part we're struggling with. Is that smart or do we stick it out and wait for equity to build or do we just pay the stupid tax?

You don't have to sell it to get ahead.

You're going to prosper because you've been willing to make sacrificial moves. You're being very intentional about everything. You know your numbers. I think you're going to be okay if you keep it. I would consider refinancing it and putting 100 or 150 down on the balance and putting it at a 5 and 1/2 on a 15 year. Uh I would consider doing that. Really really seriously. Get get in touch with Churchill Mortgage and see if they can help you with that. >> How old are you guys?

I am 30 and my wife is 28. Okay.

>> Yeah. I probably would do that and then sit there for 2 years and then if I'm still feeling a pinch and I want to still feeling this push to simplify and then sell it and you'll probably make some money. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And I was going to say I mean if you guys your voice is deep David I was like I don't know he could be 55 he could be 25 I don't know how old this guy is.

Because if you were closer to even retirement age right and you didn't have a lot saved or something like that right and there may be a big financial move you guys do to stockpile some money if you were close to that but you guys but you're fine you're 30 so yeah that's

that would be another element of why I could see someone wanting to simplify to get more cash flow to start investing more but you guys are great at 30.

>> doing a good the good news about every single thing we asked you you knew the answer. You're you're on it. You're you're dialed in and that that that is a that's that's half the battle.

Emily's in Montreal. Hi Emily how are you? Hi Dave good thanks how are you? Better than I deserve what's up?

So I just exited baby step two on

Thursday of last week and yesterday my car was stolen that was my only debt and

I'm expecting about $45,000 to $50,000

payout from insurance because it was stolen and I'm at a crossroads of what to do with that either do I get the exact same car that was stolen which I loved so much do I take this opportunity to maybe downsize my car and use the money for something else like starting a business or anything else or do I potentially just stay in my current job and get something more efficient.

>> I make $60,000 a year. You don't need a $45,000 car if you make 60,000 even if it's paid for. >> I know I know I don't it's I'm driving like 1,000 km a week to to to work You don't want to destroy a $1,000 car.

I mean, a a $45,000 car driving that much if you're that broke. No. So, not Yes, I would move down in car. We don't tell people to buy more than half their annual income in cars.

And so, that means you take 30 of the 45 at a max and buy a buy a 2-year-old version of what you just had stolen.

Wow, what a story.

Just got out of debt and they stole my car. They stole my stole my car. Yeah, use the rest as an emergency fund, Emily, then you're on the baby step four. There you go.

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>> [music] >> Michael is in Billings, Montana. Hey Michael, what's up?

Hey Dave, how are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hi, so I'm 26 and I'm looking to get

engaged here soon.

Um but my girlfriend and I, we have very different net worths and I was curious what or how you would look at setting up a pre-nup. What does very different net worth mean?

Okay. I So, I was very blessed. My grandparents did very well. I have about five I have

a $550,000 paid for house, uh about 50,000 in a truck.

I also have about 135 between my 401k

and my various accounts. I also have 350k in leftover in a college fund.

Um she is currently in PA school

and she will be coming out of school

um with about 120 to 150,000 in debt.

What do you What do you make?

I make about 100 Well, I'm in sales, so 120 to 150 a year. Okay.

Um And she will be making about >> were in your shoes, I would get so comfortable with this lady

in order to marry her that I don't need a pre-nup. You don't have enough net worth to fool with it.

Okay.

If you can't get $600,000 worth of comfortable with somebody, you don't need to marry them.

Okay. >> If you had 60 million from your grandparents, we'll talk about a pre-nup.

Okay. >> at 600k, no.

I wouldn't. Would you, Rachel?

No, I mean, the only thing I could think of, if I'm in her shoes and the and the

and and the script was flipped and I'm marrying a guy he's coming out and I had built a a life for me and I had bought my own home and I had done some big things. I could see like the home for instance, maybe.

If something were to ever happen, um yeah, that because the cuz the thing with the thing that's hard with pre-nups is like the the the laws in every state with divorce are different, okay? And so there's going to be something that is going to happen if that happens. So, are you proactive about that on the front end?

Up to you. People nowadays are getting more and more comfortable with it cuz people are getting married later with some established financial life versus two 21-year-olds who have nothing and they're, you know, getting married. Um so, more and more we get this call and I think my my I had a pretty black and white take on it for years of like, nope, nope, nope, nope. And now there's just a part of me that I'm like maybe maybe one part of this that you're like, yeah, if something were to happen, um I have built a life, right?

I mean, I know people that have their own businesses and that kind of thing. I don't know. If you Again, if you've got a substantial net worth, I I and I and I'm not Your grandparents blessed you. There's no question about that.

And um you know, it's it's okay it's okay if you get a divorce. >> a million. He has a $550,000 home, 135,

350 in a car like everything together.

It's It's probably more like a million.

>> Okay. So. If you want to do it, it's okay. I just want you to be really, really sure that The problem is everybody throws this subject against the wall as if it solves something. And I don't want you to think it solves anything. All it solves for is

if you divorce. It doesn't mean that you've actually sat down and got to know each other.

It doesn't mean that you sat down and agreed, "Okay, here's how we're going to spend the parent my grandparents' money

that they gave me is going to pay off your student loans when we come home from the honeymoon." You got to solve for that.

Emotionally. And that's a And that's a blessing. >> the way, I would do that. I'm 100% 100% You got 350,000 in Yes. in a in a college account, you can use it for your spouse and I'd pay off that debt in about 20 seconds.

And um you know, that kind of stuff. And you got to you got to go to emotionally, is this relation cuz the only chance you

have in a culture that hates marriage for your marriage to last is you got to be willing to die for them.

You got to be willing to take a bullet for them. Mhm. You got to be it's all in. Ride or die as Delony says.

This is we're in. And and so the problem

with a pre-nup is it's kind of got one foot in a boat, one on the dock, you know, and it's like you know, and I want you to go all in and then if you've emotionally, relationally with some good marriage coaching, counseling solve for all the the all in part um

and you're ready to write a check and pay off your student loans when you get back from the honeymoon and then and if on top of that you want to do a pre-nup, okay. That yeah, I'm not going to yell at you for that for for a million dollars, but but I I really want you to um cuz think that's right.

>> Yeah, because I think what and I and again I'm like saying this out loud as I'm like processing it because I think to the the downside of people that do pre-nups, so that's probably a generalization, but is that you're starting out emotionally saying financially this is mine Mhm.

and this is you over here and and and

that can tend to then go into the marriage where that's financially where we say no, you're all in. So if you had a if you did do a pre-nup and and you're like if the worst of the worst of the worst happens and and the you know, we we do the divorce, you know, court or whatever and this is how assets are divided, but inside the marriage from that point on, we are commingling finances. Mine is what what's mine is yours. Yes, and net worth. That everything then is together.

Yeah. Um and I don't know how that plays I don't know, but so that's my caution with it, too. I don't like that I I don't like that emotional hurdle.

But yet, again, I mean, I'm like I I can't help myself, but when we sit on this side of the desk, we have so many calls of of people who have walked through divorce and all, you know what I mean? And someone that brings in something or had a business. I mean, I've had you know, people in my own life and that's happened to and you're just like, man.

What I always want to do is force people to to set that aside and act like it's not there >> Yeah. and get okay with that. Yes.

>> And and that level of commitment >> Yep. and then, if you want to do it, fine. But what it does, it keeps people from going deep. Keeps them from going in all the way to the ground to ground floor and you've got to do that for your marriage to have a chance in a in a in a culture where marriage is is a we're at war against marriage.

I mean, it's like Well, it's just it's just not a priority for some people. You know what I mean? Exactly. Well, but you know, the other one that's interesting, Rachel, on on that side of the thing, of course, when I started a long time ago, I just said, "Never do a pre-nup." >> Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> On the basis of what we've just been saying. Yes. But then I ran into weirdness where somebody's got two or three million dollars and the other one's broke and it's not the person, usually. It's like I find out that there's a weird brother-in-law or cousin in the mix, you know?

Because what the brother-in-law >> you're like, I can't touch it, it's not mine. Mhm. >> so her her her crazy brother, you know, starts coming at the new husband. And it's like, "I want this. I want to do this." >> handled. It's already handled. You can't get to it." So, uh you got cuz you it's there's crazy in every family and if you think there's not, it's you, you know. So, and so

that's what you're looking for and then

Deloney and I were having this discussion. He's doing all this marriage research right now and he had a guy come to him and we had this great discussion the other day on we're traveling together and um that a guy made the point that a pre-nup is like a will.

Because if you don't do a will, the state has a set of laws on how your assets will be divided. Yeah, that's right. >> don't do a pre-nup, the state has a set of laws in the divorce of how you're going to be divided. And they said, "But we tell everybody to do a will to pre-plan so the state is not in charge." And so if you want to be anti-government, Dave Dave is about as anti-government as anybody you'll ever meet.

Classic hillbilly, right? Like, you know, don't like them revenuers. And so,

you know, that kind of stuff. And so I if you want to be real anti-government, Dave, you would tell everybody buy a pre-nup to so the government's not deciding. >> for yeah, you're the one deciding. And that's an interesting philosophical discussion. It didn't sway me, but it's it's worth talking about. It didn't sway me.

That's that was part of my answer too with the That's a good That's a good point. But that's my thing too. And And again, the And honestly, this the the the reality we live in today, people are getting married later and they're coming in established with something and

>> But that's even that adds to the danger because you've got this independence

and in order to have a quality relationship, that has to go away. Yeah.

Yeah. >> You have to you have to become interdependent to have a quality relationship.

Yes. >> Submit yourselves one to another, Ephesians says, right? There's a submission to each other, not a I'm over here and I'm established, you know? And that that's that's a spirit that's got to be broken.

And again, I don't know the laws of this. We're going in circles >> [laughter] >> No, I like it. >> But but I but like could could the pre-nup be right if you started a a business, right? And it and [music] it's killing it and you're the owner of it but you get married could the pre-nup say in the middle of divorce you don't get to touch the business, it's mine.

But in the marriage we >> [music] >> what I bring home it's everyone. So that makes sense like >> do that. You could do that. >> line I don't know.

How to say unified in the marriage but also [music] But I would also add that from today forward the marriage grows partially because of the marriage. >> Oh the value of the okay. >> grows partially because of the value of marriage added to the business.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruze is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey. Brandon is in Chicago. Hi Brandon, how are you?

Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. What's up? I'm doing pretty good. Um my fiance and I are getting married in about 4 weeks time now. Congratulations. Congratulations.

Thank you. We are looking to buy a house. Um we I've done your financial peace twice. She's done it once.

We've done all the baby steps. We're uh investing, got emergency funds. Um

got a decent stack of cash packed uh piled up and um we just don't want to make the wrong decision on buying a house and everything seems out of reach.

What's your What's your combined income going to be?

Uh we'll be about 120.

Um Mhm. I don't want to base it off that because we would like to start having children soon sooner rather than later.

Um so I'd like to base it off mine, which is currently 70. Mhm. Um so yeah.

And how much cash do you have saved?

About 70 grand. Good for you. Good for you. Okay, my screen says you're in Chicago. Chicago proper?

Uh Northwest Indiana.

Okay, but the Chicago greater metro area. Yes. Okay.

Probably not going to buy a house on 70,000 in the greater metro area of Chicago. And honestly, not always cuz the house prices, but the property tax.

People that I we know moved from Chicago, the it's not even the price of the home, it's keeping up The [laughter] taxes.

the taxes itself Yeah. are what's impossible. Now, if you're in Indiana and you get across the line out of Illinois, is that where you are?

Yes, I'm I'm in Northwest Indiana.

>> help That helps with the tax issue then.

But yeah. >> Yeah. But but still you're you know, you're in a major metro market that's a very expensive city.

It's one of the largest cities in the world.

And so uh that that's expensive real estate. You're probably also not going to buy in San Francisco, San Diego, or

uh Manhattan on 70 grand a year, or Miami on 70 grand a year.

>> Or Nashville, Tennessee. >> Yeah, you can buy in Nashville, Tennessee. Outskirts. >> But the uh but I mean the the point is that that that's what you're facing. So, what's your what you want is some things that aren't compatible.

You want her to be able to stay at home and live in an area that your income won't afford you to buy a home. And so you're going to make a choice here somewhere.

Um and the you know, if you want her to stay at home, you're going to move further out.

Mhm. You're going to move out to the country. Or you guys

you know, save like crazy for two, three years. You know what I mean?

Keep stacking cash and seeing what >> Yeah. What happens [clears throat] there. >> mind I don't mind the country at all. Uh we're we're looking even further south and further east to >> you What are the average prices of the homes you're looking at then?

Um I mean for a basic fixer-upper you're

at least 250. >> Oh, definitely. >> Yeah. You are a You're not in the Chicago land for that. Okay. All right, good. And you can do that. You can probably pull that off.

But uh Well, even at even at 250 I feel like that puts our mortgage above, you know, the recommended 25% of the income.

>> Yeah, it will it will It won't for now, but it would It would when she quits.

And then that also the $250,000 house is going to require us to put money up front to

fix and you know, fix whatever's broken in the house Be be careful. Yeah, just be careful. They're not nice houses.

>> Yeah, be careful. I mean, it can be done. Um but and as you figured out the

uh and with the numbers you're giving me, you're being very wise, okay?

But I thought you were talking about I can't afford a $700,000 house and I was saying, "Yeah, you can't." >> No, no, no. But um you know, that that's where I was. But the uh um there's a in in the real estate field, urban growth,

there's a a thing we call the ring theory. And with exceptions, but as a general

rule, if you drop a pebble in the central business district, the main downtown area, every ring that that

pebble go the water goes out, gets cheaper. With the exception of mountains for views and lakes and golf courses. But if you stay away from those three things, it gets cheaper as you go out um until you touch another area that's another uh another metro area. But you know, to live in in the close proximity

to downtown Chicago is much more expensive than it is to live 50 miles

outside uh over in Indiana. You know, as

as you have found. You already have realized that whether you realized it or not. Yeah. But that that's what you're seeing. So, just be careful and be thoughtful and you're already you're doing that. I think you're going to be okay. >> And know, Brandon, too, you know, your income will continue to go up, too. So, that 25% doesn't stay stagnant at a house payment, right? Because um I mean, if you guys bring home, you know, five grand a month, for instance, you know, off yours, you're looking at a 2,000 Yeah. payment for 1,050, yeah.

Yeah. So, but think that your 70 hopefully will be 75 soon and then eight You know what I mean? You will continue to to go up.

Exactly. It's not The thing you got to remember about personal finance is it's a film strip. It's not a snapshot. It's a move It's a moving target. Everything's moving over time and uh you're not stuck there. But just continue to be thoughtful about it and don't just throw up your hands. What we want to coach people about on this affordability in air quotes discussion

is to say well you know, I don't have math doesn't count because I want a house.

Mhm. And that's what we want to stop you from doing and say well, in my area and math doesn't And he's not saying any of that. He's saying he's being very wise and thoughtful about how he's approaching it. But we run into these people that um when I want something and I can't afford it, I don't know about you, but I got I kind of have this little drama queen fit. Like a little child having a hissy fit.

Mhm. Like down inside of me. You know, I want that. I want that. I want that and I can't afford it. I want that and I can't afford it. And I deserve it because I work so hard.

>> Yeah. Oh brother. >> Well, so what So, I just did quick math here. So, if his payment was Yeah, $2,000. Yeah, in today's market it would be a $275,000 home. So But he's making They're currently making 120. That's right.

>> They're not even married. So that >> already having kids in their head. Yeah.

They're getting They're They're [laughter] engaged. I mean >> That's right. I know. So they're He's He's way projecting out into the future on this. >> That's the thing too is like if you guys waited two to three years to buy a home, you're okay. >> buy the house now on 120 Yeah. and it

and two or three years before she comes home >> Yes. Yes. >> by then you're making 80 and you've got everything stabilized. Yeah. You're going to be okay. >> Yes. Yes. But don't But just don't you know, You You hate the complaining. You do, Dave. I do. >> And I get it, but also there is >> drama queen cuz it's inside of me, too.

It's inside of >> All of us have to It's called growing up. >> But also, I think we can all say out loud it is it is You hate when I say this, but it is true. It is harder today. I know.

>> Because of the income and the like So, so we acknowledge it. It is harder and it sucks. >> rule. But, that's not a That doesn't mean you get a pass on math, and you get to go destroy your life because they want something.

>> no, you don't. I know. I know. But, it just It's like a It's like a man, this is not what it was, and now we have to move forward.

That is why I hate when people just complain on Instagram or TikTok about it, and there's no solution.

Where you buy >> Yes. Yes. changes everything.

>> Yeah. Mhm. >> You don't You can't call me up and say, "I want to live in Silicon Valley." >> Be James, and just live in a Where's James live? >> It's not a tiny home. It's a log cabin.

>> Log cabin. >> James has a log cabin. So, there you go.

>> We love it. He's a homesteader. I didn't know. >> James? Mhm.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show.

Sorry. Little backed up, little hard to get in here. But if you got a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained only on proven

Ramsey principles. So, like we loaded 3 years or 4 years worth of this show in there as the data say data set. And we loaded all the books we've written and the articles we've written and all that stuff as the data set. So, there's no garbage in there from TikTok or from trash, you know, from some get-rich-quick thing built into it. So, the data set is all stuff we have said.

And that's all AI is. It just regurgitates what the data set is. So, it's going to answer the question exactly like one of us would.

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It's pretty cool. Thousands of people are using it every day. It's crazy, y'all. I mean, they're blowing up. All right, Rachel is in West Virginia. Hi, Rachel. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Okay, so I'm having a hard time getting

the best financial decision for my future. So, right now, I'm currently

a waitress making around 100k a year. I've probably

made a little over 40 some this year so far.

Good for you. You're working hard. Good for you. But, I've been considering going to nursing school.

And that would be $25,000

for just the LP and program.

But, it would also be making less money than I make now. No.

Not much.

You're working a lot of hours to make 100k on tables. How many hours you work in a week?

So, I'm only working like 38 to 40 hours.

You got a good restaurant.

Okay. That's a hot ticket item.

All right. Um Nice place. >> the what's the nursing position you're looking at? What is what's market value for that job per year? >> 80 to 100.

Rachel. So, the So, the LPN program is

25,000 and it says the average salary for that is 50. But,

then if you would go back and get your RN, which sometimes you can get a job that would pay for that part of the schooling, >> Mhm. >> then it is usually around 100k. Okay.

Have you called around different places of employment that you would probably be interested in and talked to anyone about what they're Cuz are you just finding these stats online?

So, I was already accepted into the LPN program. And that that is the one that is 25,000.

And then they told me after I would graduate the LPN program, if I would accept a job, most jobs would pay to go back to get your RN. >> Agreed. Mhm.

But most jobs pay more than 50 on LPN, too. Yeah. >> And the other thing is you can get all the work you want.

Nursing is possibly one of the most stable I mean, I've been doing this 30 years and I've never heard of a single

year when there was an overage of nurses. There's always a shortage.

So, you can always learn a job. There's a lot of different kinds of jobs you can do as a nurse. And you can work at a doctor's office Monday through Friday and work ER and clean up on the weekends if you want to stack some cash for a short time as a part-time gig once you've got your degree. So, I love nursing.

>> Yeah, and the 50 a year, Rachel, is only Well, well, let's say it is. For it's only for a for a second because you're going to be there they're going to pay for you to go to school and then you'll jump and sell You know what I mean? Like it's a stepping stone if it is. It's not going to be your forever salary.

Yeah. So, that's how I would look at it.

If that is the case in West Virginia where you are uh versus waitressing, I

mean, the fact you make 100 grand is amazing, but that's probably capped, right? Like that like that's probably you can only work, you know, so much doing that. And so, I do wonder Yeah, I don't think you got a chance to go to 150 there, do you?

Yeah, no. And it's really could end

anytime. That's just that restaurant. If that would close, then I'd be screwed.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um but I I would call around, too, Rachel cuz them just throwing numbers out at the school, I probably would do my own research, too, just to be curious about what people are paying. And it also depends on whether you're you know, how how rural an area of West Virginia you're in. Okay, if you're in small town West Virginia in the mountains, yeah, 50 might be right.

But if you're if you're in a metro area, it's more like 60 or 80.

Okay. All right. And cuz we we work with nurses all the time. I mean, it's it's And and I'm I'm just a from a wealth building perspective, a stable perspective, you always have work perspective, you can choose the environment you want to be in perspective, it's a great career.

Okay. And then my other question is

would you get So, with it being $25,000,

would you get a loan to have money

during the >> going to tell you get a loan.

We never tell anybody get a loan.

Okay. No. We always want you to be debt free. You got some money stacked, don't you?

Yeah. I mean, I paid off my all of my credit cards and my car and I just >> But you're making 100, you can stack up 25 by the time you need it.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you just if you just you're real careful. That I'm so proud of you. Way to go. I mean, but but the difference is not the snapshot of today, the difference is what's the best decision 10 years from today. Nursing are tables. Nursing.

>> Yep. Slam dunk. >> How old are you, Rachel?

I'm 26. Okay. Perfect. Good for you. I think that's great. Yeah, I just don't I see you being a very successful, wealthy

55-year-old nurse. I don't see you being a successful, wealthy 55-year-old waitress.

Yeah, that's kind of how I see it, too.

Yeah. I think it's a great step, girl. Do it.

How about it, kiddo? Be careful and be thoughtful and and milk it for everything it's worth, meaning get the best highest paying job possible that pays you all they will pay you.

>> some knowledge again. I would call around to hospitals and clinics and stuff and just say, "Hey, starting out, I'm just curious, what what average salary are you paying for this?" And just collect some data, too, cuz I think that's going to maybe I think it's going to be more you're going to see a better picture, not a worse picture than that 50. And the way I And I would frame this differently in my head, okay? Like, I want to go back to school and pay 25,000 to make half of what I used to make.

That's not the story here. Mhm. We would not tell you to do that.

But I want to go back to I want to pay 25,000 and go to school for a career that has a much better future and a higher upside financial. And I might have to take a little bit of a step back temporarily. That's a different story.

>> Mhm. And you need to frame the decision-making on that story, not on a

I just want to do what I love and I'm going to make half. That's not your story. You're not one of those. That's a Fruit Loop. You don't want to do that.

Okay, I just want to follow my passion and be broke. >> get so annoyed with those people, too. >> I know. That's just It's That's just dumb. >> Dave has not been in the studio for a while. All of his grievances are coming out on this show. Whenever he comes back, he's always like, "Oh, those people annoyed me. I'm going to talk about those people." [laughter] I have not had a single person annoy me.

>> No one has annoyed me. No, people that complain about houses being high, you don't like them. You don't like You don't like the people that are like, "I'm going to follow my passion and be It was that way when I left and it was that way when [laughter] I came back. It had nothing to do with while I was gone.

But anyway, the people I've been with were very sweet. Thank you very much.

[laughter] No, they weren't annoying. I'm saying people in America that annoy you. >> I know. I I have not had any interaction with those people. >> [laughter] >> At least he's not spreading libel about my housing situation. >> Yeah, Rachel, I I I didn't I didn't throw James' house under the bus. You You took his log cabin and turned it into a tiny house.

James, I'm sorry. [laughter] I had the wrong set of information.

Oh my god. >> James He lives in a log cabin palace as far as I'm concerned. I think he does.

>> [laughter] >> On acreage. On acreage. Thank you very much. >> Very nice. Very nice. Uh you got to love it.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Aaron and Megan are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good.

How are you? Great. I am so pumped to be

here. I don't [laughter] know if you can tell, but man. Hey, we're honored to have you. Where do you guys live?

Richmond, Virginia. All right, fine.

Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off? $660,000.

Good miss gracious. How long did this take? 4 years. Woah! All right, there's

a story here. And your range of income during this 48 months? Started around 240, ended um up around 300.

>> Wow, what do y'all do for a living? I'm a physician. Mhm. And I have a small business. We do screen print, embroidery, um contract stuff. Pallets and pallets of t-shirts. >> And $660,000.

I was going to guess mortgage, but then you said MD, so student loans or mortgage or both?

>> Both. Oh, good. Debt-free house and everything. >> Woah! Amazing. WEIRDOS. YEAH. OH, LOOK.

OH, there's the doctor's house. [laughter] Okay, I see it now. All right. We repainted. Oh. I like it. I like it. I like the blue shutters. I liked it. That's fine. >> Oh, y'all, that's great.

>> How old are you two?

I'm almost 35. 38. And you have a paid-for house and a paid for MD degree.

Mhm. Wow. How much of this was student loans, how much was the house? The house um was 317, the rest were student loans.

Woah. Yeah. Half and half, basically.

>> About half, yeah. Wow. So, you come out of you come out of med school and he's printing t-shirts like a crazy man, like hand over fist, and you're going to work like all the time, and you're going to clean this mess up. And you went on just plowed right on through the house and everything. Yeah. Well, we only met like 5 years ago. Um so, he kind of buried into the debt.

Yeah. Ah, okay. >> "Yeah." >> [laughter] >> I was scared. >> What caused Yeah, what happened?

Okay, so all that was 4 years ago. So, what happened 4 years ago? Well, we got we got married um and we start looking at this and it's like, "Babe, you can reform. You know, you can reform.

We've got all this stuff. We've got to get rid of it. Um yeah, it was real scary. It's just the daily compounding.

I looked at those interest payments and I was like, "We got to get rid of this." >> still had credit cards. Yeah. No debt, but credit cards. Yeah.

And so, and I had some savings, um but I wasn't making any loan payments cuz they were in deferment. >> Mhm.

So, I have been listening to you guys probably since uh 2012. >> Mhm. Um yeah, so He's a disciple.

>> Yeah, I'm a disci- I'm a little bit of a disciple. I've always run my business that way, you know, debt free. Yeah. Um and always tried to keep my expenses low and Okay, so you knew the antidote and you were a wee bit excited about the fact that >> was so ready. I bet you were over the top, though. >> Yeah. Was he over the top? He was him.

HE WAS HIM. >> [laughter] >> I'D SAY MAYBE JUST SAY 10% OVER THE TOP, not that >> [laughter] >> crazy, not over crazy.

>> over the top. >> like him. It's a good over the top. I mean, he you came at her with like a fire hose, though, right? I mean, like Yeah, she was she was drinking from it, though. I had her drinking from it.

Yeah. [laughter] >> Okay, so you'd had enough, too. You wanted out. >> Oh, yeah.

Okay, so it wasn't a big argument or anything. It's just a It was just a big mountain. No, that's one of our big strengths, I think, is you know, we've always kind of been on the same page on money and we, you know, It's awesome. Wait, so did you guys work extra What What was the What was one of the big things you did that you were like, "This helps so much?" Was the income I mean, you guys you did great on the income >> Yeah.

Well, I mean, he was a maniac. I mean, the first, you know, couple years we were together, 100 hours a week.

Sunday to Saturday.

>> I was doing um I was taking like 25 nights a month of hospice call. Whoa. Um I'm also in the reserves, so I drill one weekend a month. So, we just were working non-stop. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah. Oh my gosh. Did the reserves pick up any of this? A little bit. Okay.

>> Yeah. They like a 10 grand hit or something? >> Yeah, couple loan repayments, yeah. Yeah, I thought they had a hit on that. Yeah, that's good. >> So, what happens now? Now that everything you're you've paid everything off, what does life look like? Cuz I mean, that's intense what you guys have just explained. Yeah. Buy furniture.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. We still have one unfurnished room in our house. It took us 2 years to buy furniture after we bought it. But yeah, I mean, we have two boys who we absolutely love.

Um Maybe want a third. Yes. And just get them set up for success. Mhm.

That's amazing. And not working 90 hours 100 hours a week, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we We want our time back. It's amazing, you guys.

>> life back. But now you you earned [clears throat] it back and you're done. I mean, 4 years of hell and you're 100% free for the rest of your life. So, what's this What's the home worth, probably?

Um it's in the fives. Yeah. Yeah.

And how much you got built up in the nest egg?

1/3 What's What's in your 401? Oh, yeah, like 180. Yeah, 180 plus.

Yeah, it's all through work.

Little over two. Okay. All right, so you're you're right at millionaire status then. Yeah, close. Yeah. Baby steps to millionaires. Making a couple hundred, you can do whatever you want to do the rest of your life. But you rolled You You hit it hard there for a period of time. >> Yeah. A lot of mac and cheese. Was it worth it? I'm never I'm not eating any more mac and cheese. >> [laughter] >> Was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely.

It's a best thing we've ever done, you know, financially, but also for our marriage.

It's helped us a lot. Communication, um and just sticking to a plan and doing something together every month, you know, we're we're doing the budget, we're reconciling it reconciling, you know, >> Yeah. going through all the steps. >> Walking through them together. How old are the boys? They're both under two, so 22 months and 8 months. Okay, so they were all through this whole process. Towards the end of the journey, they you were having babies, too, which is a whole other feat, right? Oh, yeah. of doing all of that. So, gosh, you guys.

You lived a lot of life in 4 years.

Congratulations. >> and debt free. Thank you.

What do you tell people if they say, "Can you do this?" You tell them they can do it? Yeah. Absolutely. [snorts] >> It's temporary, you know, just work your butt off and it's worth it. Yeah, absolutely. You can do it. Dedication.

You have to believe in yourself and go for it and don't stop and keep keep working through the baby steps. >> Yep. And it's all about messaging. So, we just called ourselves broke.

Like, no, we can't have that. We're broke. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, got to I've told I've told MDs that before when they call in. It's good for them to hear that sometimes. You are a broke doctor. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, but you're not. And here's what's interesting, too. We were talking about this affordability thing a while ago.

Mhm. Their home was is, you know, when they bought it wasn't a half million.

And it's a half million dollar house today and she's a doctor. Mhm.

Hello. Okay? I mean, this is not

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You chose where you were living and what neighborhood you bought in. >> Wisdom, yeah. You didn't go buy a house five times that size, which your contemporaries probably did. People came out of med school with you, they're still sitting with 300 and then they put a million dollar mortgage to go with it to prove I'm a stupid doctor.

And that's because doctors are notoriously bad with money. And so, um that the people that graduate with you instead you went the other way and that they're acting like somehow you're you know like but you now you're free. That's right. >> And worth a million dollars and going to be worth two million in a heartbeat.

The way you're going so congratulations. I'm very proud of y'all. It's it's worth pointing out that y'all made great choices. Yes.

>> Along the way here and that's also what got you there.

We have people calling that make 300 and they they have nothing. You know what I mean? They're stressed out and they're living paycheck to paycheck. So you guys you killed it. Absolutely. Did y'all have people cheering you on during this?

Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. Family. Yeah, we had a lot. A lot of people in our corner. Yep, that's great. Oh, you guys are amazing.

>> people rolling their eyes. Mhm. Yeah, there's there's those. And a few people who have followed by example just hearing our story and now they're paying off their debts. Hey, I like it. That's good. That's good. Well, that if we can infect the medical community with this, it would be awesome. What a weird word to say about the medical community. >> [laughter] >> It was it was I chose it carefully.

It makes it I wanted to be contagious. No pun intended. I want this to be contagious in the medical community. Well, way to go you guys. Very very proud of Thanks for coming on and sharing your story.

Does it feel right now standing here?

Surreal. Absolutely surreal. What you said. Yeah, it's it's wild. I never thought that I would yeah, be up here. But it's cool.

It's kind of like you were driving 160 miles an hour and then you stopped.

And you went whoa, those white lines aren't a solid line. Who knew? Yeah, that's that's amazing. Well, way to go you guys. Congratulations. Very proud of you. AARON AND MEGAN, RICHMOND, VIRGINIA. 660,000 paid off. House and everything including

medical school debt all done in 48

months making 240 to 300. The secret sauce is working together and then all they did was work all the time until they cleaned it up. But, they're 35 years old and they're free and they're Baby Steps Millionaires.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, [music] TWO, ONE. WE'RE

DEBT-FREE!

YEAH! >> [cheering]

>> I LOVE IT. WAY TO GO!

>> [music]

[music]

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slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question is from Shauna in Arizona. My husband and I are in the process of selling a home that we purchased 10 years ago. We'll be moving to another state in a few years and will rent until we're ready to make the move.

As we consider setting aside a proceeds from this sale for a few years, what is

the best type of account to park it in?

Should we put it in high yield savings, CDs, individual stocks, or is there some other option that we should consider?

Um so the honestly, the two places when you think about putting money aside is either savings is one category and then investment is another category. So anytime you put money into the market would be considered an investment. So whether we never would recommend individual stocks, but anything whether it's mutual funds, index funds, and kind of our rule of thumb is if you're not going to use the money for 4 to 5 years, um then then yeah, you could probably invest it and ride the market out because there'll be lows and highs. And so you want to make sure that just like a home, right?

You wouldn't buy a home and when there's no equity turn around and sell it. So if you're going to if you are going to use the money in around 4 years or less, then a high yield savings account is where I would park it. And our friends at Fairwinds have a great smart bundle where you can get a no fee checking account. I think it's up to 10 high yield savings accounts you can have within your name.

And then um the Ramsey B Beaver debit card with that, too. But a high yield savings is where I would park it. If you're going to use that money, you said a few years, so I'm assuming that's two to three. So, I would just throw it in a high yield savings account.

Yeah. That's the safe thing.

more I would lean towards something like just an S&P 500. Okay? 97%

of the 5-year periods in the stock market's history have made money.

So, you wouldn't lose money 97 times out of 100 if you left it alone 5 years or more. That's why Rachel said that's investing.

Now, if you do it 4 years, what's the number? I don't remember the probability on that one. Or 3 years, what's the number? I don't know. But um I mean, the last 3 years have

been um you know, 25, 24, and 18.

>> But that's not normal.

But if you'd left it alone for 3 years and you'd been in the market, you'd have that versus high yield savings.

Obviously, looking back would have been smart. But you don't know that. It could be down for 3 years, too. So, but the

number of down periods in a the a long

period of time is very, very low. So, if

to the extent you can afford to lose a little bit of it and be comfortable, then you can go with uh the you know, you can go with an S&P 500 index fund. So, you just kind of got to work that through uh and figure it out. But most if you if you're just even the tiniest little bit scared, high yield savings. You're not with that kind of stuff. If you had 3 years, would you throw it in a S&P?

I might go 50/50. Okay. You know, if you got Let's say they got 500,000 out of this house or something like that. I might put 250 in the S&P and 250 in the high yield.

Kind of hedge my bets a little bit. >> if you're going to be turning around and in a house in the next couple of months, Obviously, it would just be high yield, but over a little bit more period. So, yeah, I think you're That's true. What you're willing to risk.

>> years or more, I start to think about some portion of it being in there. Five years or more, I'm putting all of it in there. >> What is do you have the stats off the top of your head on election years? Is it usually down election years?

No, usually up. It is up, okay. I was just wondering, not that you can time the market, but >> I wouldn't. And on midterms, I don't know.

I haven't looked at that. Uh-huh.

>> No. But I still know if you're like heading into a year, if you're like, "Eh, let me hold off for a few months and see the landscape of the world if it I don't know. >> Every time I I try to do that >> Every time I try to do that, I lose money. It doesn't work.

>> So, um I guess wrong, you know, whichever way it is. So, I just quit doing that. I just quit saying I started saying, "Okay, if I put 250,000 in and it goes down 10%, >> Mhm. I lost 25 grand out of my 500.

Yep.

Didn't kill me. Right. >> Okay. Hurts. Hurts. But that And that would be highly unusual. Yes. Okay.

Very unusual three-year period of time.

Yes. Like almost never happens, okay?

>> funny. So, but if you thought about that way, but you So, that's kind of how I gauge it is if I lost something that was an unusually bad loss, Yeah. it's still not that much.

>> You know what? That's a hap- That literally just happened to me and Winston. We opened up a like an S&P 500 thing to throw some money in Mhm. uh cuz we're looking at diversification, couple of things. And we usually we had never really done that. We had had other investments like 401(k)s, Roth, and then another account that we just would put it. So, we're like, "Well, let's maybe we'll have another one brokerage account cuz Winston may buy, you know, something out of it uh with his real estate stuff.

And I'm not lying, you guys. We >> [laughter] >> We put some money in and we moved it from a high yield savings into this And it went down. Iran Iran happened like five days later and Winston was like, "Oh, just don't just don't look at anything >> [laughter] >> right now. I But it didn't it didn't drop that much.

>> No, and then it came back and it's >> dropped like 3%. >> literally had to tell myself, Rachel, you do this for a living. It's okay. You just you just don't look.

You ride the market. Don't jump off the roller coaster. But I thought out of all times in the last 3 years >> Yeah. You picked the worst one.

>> I picked the like 4 days before. Who knew? And I was like, "Dadgummit." Trump bombs Iran. Oh Just as you decide to be an investor.

>> [laughter] >> But But again, you you can go back and look at those charts. That's an interesting thing to do for the since the first of the year. >> But it hurts.

Mhm.

You're okay. Yeah, and now it's back up over what it was. >> Yes. You know, and it hurts your feelings, but it's not the actual math is not devastating.

>> No, it's just it's your harder money and you're like seeing it going the other way. >> Yeah. And I don't want it to go that way. And it hasn't now. It's back up.

>> That's right. No, everything's fine. But I had that mo about a few days of thinking, "Dadgummit." >> I did that uh Come to think of it, I dropped a chunk in about the time Trump decided to do tariffs. Oh, yeah.

>> And there was about a month period where it like choked. >> [laughter] >> You know, and then it came right back up and through the roof. But it like for a for a just a moment there, the market just decided to go And that and that's really why I'm like, I don't People ask, "Do you check Do you check the market? Do you look?" And I'm like, "I really don't.

I look at our accounts once a year." Um Yep. And then this was like literally the only time in our 16 years of marriage of doing this together >> the account every day, you're a day trader.

Yes. Yes. And you can't do that. So, you park it for long term. Long term.

It's going to go up and down. That's the plan. Charles is in Boston. Hey Charles, what's up?

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Um so, I guess essentially my question is I grew up very privileged. I have about $9 million in investments all through trusts from

my parents, my grandparents. Um I'm a few years out of college.

And >> How old are you? >> well. I make I'm 28. Cool. Good for you.

Yeah, and I I make around 80 to 90k a

year. Mhm.

But I'm at this I'm at this crossroads where I'm studying for my GMAT and I'm hearing people talk less and less about the effectiveness of going to graduate school, um at least for business, um and whether or not I should just start my own company, um start a business.

Where Where do your thoughts lie given I have such uh ample resources at my disposal and a

safety net Yeah. can cushion any fall. I

wouldn't use that to make my decision.

I would pretend like that money's not there. And then go be a wise

heart-filled 28-year-old that kicks butt and takes names.

And let And let your life be Let your Let that money be gravy that's in the background. Um you know if you're stumbling and fall, you're going to be you have a huge safety net, but that doesn't make you That doesn't say, "Oh, you need to go in business." And people who don't have $9 million don't need to go in business.

No, you need to go in business if you're supposed to go into business. Business is hard. Business is thrilling. Business is fun. I've been an entrepreneur my whole life. I thoroughly encourage you to do it. >> It It but you're you're going to have the Your your boss is a butt.

He'll drive you crazy when you're on your own business.

He'll work you to death. >> And what kind of business do you want to open? Um What kind of business do you want to open?

I'm sure about that as at the moment, but I know my knowledge and passion lies within the automotive industry. Okay.

>> Whether it's maybe selling classic cars like my brother, starting a boutique.

That'd be fun. You know, go you can do that. You can do that easy. And that's something you can test and get back out of.

You you don't have to say I'll never go to graduate school, instead I'm going to sell classic cars. You can say I'm going to try this. I'm going to experiment. If I don't like it, I can't make money at it, I'm not good at it, I'll try something else and I'll experiment.

That's what entrepreneurs do.

Very seldom does what you set out to do end up being the thing you're doing 20 years later.

Cuz business and and the environment changes too much. I think you ought to try it, but not based on the fact you got 9 million.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruze is my co-host today. Samantha is

in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Um better than I deserve, but beautifully broken is well. I understand. How can we help today?

So, my husband so I have been a stay-at-home mom for 27 years. The last 20 I've been raising our disabled daughter who passed away in September. I'm sorry.

Okay. I'm saying Um she passed away in September. My husband has a really long history of financial infidelity. Whoa, whoa, stop just a second. Stop just a second. Breathe. Okay. I'm sorry.

>> It's okay. Get your breath back so we can hear you. So, your your daughter passed in September? Yes. What what was her name?

Her name was Abby. Mhm. And what was her disability, honey?

Um she was a quadriplegic with cerebral palsy. And she and she lived she lived 20 years? She did. She did.

Mentally she was fine. She um but she couldn't walk. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. She couldn't even turn over in bed. I did everything for her. So, not only did I lose her, I lost my identity because I just don't know how to be normal anymore. Like, that's all I did was take care of her for her. >> And fight for her, and do for her, and give her >> she'd been gone for 7 8 months now, right? But it felt like yesterday. It's just horrible.

Anyway, And so, your husband You said your husband was financial infidelity. You mean he's been doing all kinds of stuff financially that you didn't know about. Yes, but he's done it our entire marriage. Like, our entire marriage he's always He'll get on eBay, and he'll like hundreds of like lots of money, like thousands of dollars. Currently, right now he has one book in his shopping cart that's $6,000.

Um in December of '24, he had $30,000 in

all these loan places, like OppLoans and

um finance places. And so, we sold our oil

leases so that we could get out of that debt. We sold our kids' future to clean up his mess. And I told him, "If you ever do this again, I'm going to divorce you." Well, of course he did it again in March. And And right after our daughter

died, he did it again in March. And um I

I just happened to catch it because it was it went into his per diem account. He works out of town, and we have two separate accounts. His check has always gone into our joint account.

I immediately transfer it to my account, which I I pay the bills with. And I've done that after about the 10th time of all of this stuff he does. I That's just how we did it, and I didn't care. That's how it was going to be. You're not going to have access to our bill money. But So, anyway, this last loan in March, I

got online to check his per diem account to make sure that his per diem had went in. And there was $12,000 in there. And so, I called him, and I said, "What is going on?" "Oh, I got a loan. I need to buy some books and yada yada yada." So, I went straight to the bank.

I pulled out every penny except $100. And I told him, I said, "This is what's going to happen here.

And so, he agreed. I paid the loan back, and he did sign the partition and exchange agreement. Our house that is paid for is in my name. Our land that we owe $23,000 for is in my name.

>> [clears throat] >> And I thought all was well. And so, then on the 24th of April, we went to a retreat for bereaved parents, and the whole time he was in my ear about buying a truck. I want to buy a truck. And I'm like, "Listen, we're here for Matt and Abby. I've lost two kids.

I've lost two children." And anyways, um after the retreat, I got a lot out of the retreat for me. After the retreat, on the way to the airport, I told him, I said, "Listen, I want us to fight for our marriage." I said, "I told him, I said, I need you to know that I have stayed all of these years for Abby.

And after her passing, when you did this

crap in March, I stayed to protect her home, cuz we built this house for her.

Everything about it is handicap accessible." And I said, "I stayed for her." And I said, "I don't have to do either anymore. I don't have to. Like, I need you to fight for our marriage. I love you." The following Monday, last Monday, he went and got another loan, 30% interest,

and he bought a truck in another town, another state for $3,500. All of these parts are coming in. All this random stuff So, I'm confused. Okay. So, he has a very

clear message from you as to what's going to happen, and he does this anyway. So, Dr. John Delony says behavior is a language. So, he's just saying goodbye, isn't he? I know.

Yes, he is. And so, I've spoke with an attorney Okay. >> and it's going to cost me $3,500.

>> Yeah, so what? I I have it, Dave. I'm trying to figure out I have just a little bit of debt. I have um >> You have You have Where's the $12,000 you were just talking about?

He spent it. He He opened a separate account where he cuz he's He works out of town. And so, he went to the town in South Carolina >> No, no, no, no, honey. I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about the other money. You said you had $12,000 cash from the other >> I No, I paid the loan back. I did. I paid it Oh, you paid the loan off.

So, there's no loan anymore.

You've gone through so much tragedy and in the midst of that, he's not able to function apparently and for >> Well, he's always been like this. for whatever reason. And um and so, you're calling an end to it. And so, yeah, that's what you're doing. I mean, I mean, there's >> Yes. There's not You You just you going to go get an attorney and they're going to advise you on how to do this. If you didn't sign the loan you are not liable.

No, I We are both on the loan. The land The So, our house is paid for.

We bought We bought a separate lot that Our house is on 3 acres. We bought an additional 3 acres. >> Well, sell them both. It doesn't matter.

>> I can't I can't, Dave. We're building this for Abby. Abby's not there anymore, honey. I don't I can't I only owe $23,000.

That's it. >> but you don't have to live there.

I I I can't. Yes, you can. No, I'm not.

That's not an option. Okay. I I just can't do that. The deal is The deal is this. The deal is this. As long as you have that property in his name in any way, shape, or form in Texas and you're married, you're going to have a problem. So, you've got to decide.

Um I think Abby would want you happy, Samantha. Yeah, and a house doesn't define Abby's memory. It doesn't live in a house. Abby's memory lives in your mind and in your heart. And um

you you're in untenable situation and you can't use Abby as a reason to stay in a in a situation where you're being abused. And um not physically abused but but a

financially abused. And you're you're going to draw a line in the sand and there's going to be some costs that go with that to get you this protection.

You may or may not keep the house. I don't know if you can keep it or not. I'm not sure. But um but I I want you to deal with this and quit trying to make him do stuff.

You know, he has told you loud and clear what he's going to do. Yeah. If you expect him to change under any circumstances, I mean, if he put all that if he gave you the deed to everything in the house and you told him if he ever does it again, you're going to take it all and then he goes and does it three more times after that, this guy's made a real clear statement. >> Mhm.

And so, now you've got to decide what the rest of your what the next chapter of your life looks like, what healing looks like. Yeah, o- over all of this, the marriage and the the children and everything.

>> life. You >> [music] >> you had an incredible purpose, Samantha.

Yeah. Of being a caretaker and what the mom you were to your daughter.

And now there's another purpose for you in the world. Yep. And to be the healthiest [music] you, Samantha. It is to get out and define that. Yeah. Next chapter.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music] >> One of my best friends in the world because I read one of his books 25 years ago, >> [music] >> reached out to him and we've ended up speaking on stages all over America for the last 25 years together. Been a part of the Ramsey family indirectly for a long, long time. Dr. Henry Cloud, acclaimed author uh in the and leadership expert, clinical psychologist, New York Times best-selling author many times over, 45 books including the iconic Boundaries that have sold nearly 20 million copies.

I sold at least 2 million of those.

He has an extensive executive coaching background and a brand new book out that is one of my favorites that Henry's ever done. Uh it's called Your Desired Future.

Welcome, my friend. Good to be here. Hi, Henry. Hey there. Good to see you. Two of my favorite people. Aw, stop that.

You say that to all of us. No, all your podcasters. >> Only only when it you know, when it improves in the next generation.

>> [laughter] >> Keep it going. Keep it going. We love you, Henry. Uh five essential steps that

take you where you want to go. I distinctly remember you coming into Ramsey into a leadership meeting about 20 years ago that we were having and we were arguing about this particular business unit that had the flu. It wasn't doing good. And then you embarrassed me because you said, "Well, what do you want it to be in 5 years?" And I said, "I want it to be making money and profitable." And you went, "Well, no kidding." But but no, really, what is your desired future for this thing?

And then what must be true that's not true today for you to get to that desired future?

And that not only applies to a business unit that's got the flu. It applies to your health, your marriage, um your finances, hello, getting out of debt, all that kind of stuff. So, your your desired future, this is a framework that you've used to coach people, right?

>> Yeah, companies and individuals. It What I did was, you know, there's so much stuff out there that's good stuff.

And people go, "Yeah, I'm going to do this." And then but I thought, "Wouldn't it be helpful to have a little model? This is a GPS. You wake up every day. You know, if I'm trying to get there, are these five things present?" Ask the question, "Are there Is there a universal path for that?" And studying the human body, the most most incredible organism to getting from here to there, and it was amazing.

You know, the brain, the prefrontal cortex starts out with a vision. We're the only ones that can see a future that doesn't exist. A dog doesn't do that.

And then it says, "Well, how am I going to get there? Well, not a caliber." Well, not to go across the room, you're going to get the right strategy with a plan. And then you got to Your brain is some it it it creates a measurement and accountability system. And you start walking that plan, you get off, and it fixes you. And that path has components to it that

are really really crucial. Yeah, that are so helpful. And this can be applied to every part of your [clears throat] life, right? Yeah. These five steps.

It's a mom getting the kids in the van on school in the school on time. Yeah.

Or right seriously, I have global companies, billions and billions that use this as their operating system.

>> Mhm. And I mean, you guys this this is when I looked at Financial Peace, you know, years ago I said, "Dave, this works because it's designed in the way that people get from here to there." >> Mhm. And all the components are there. And and the five components it starts with vision. Which is I guess the desired future, right? >> It is and here's what's interesting about your brain, the way it's wired.

The brain hates ambiguity. It can't

stand it cuz it doesn't know what to do.

It loves clarity. Even if it's bad news, it likes bad news that's clear better than no news. >> That's right because once it has clarity

about where where I am now and I don't want to be there and I got to get somewhere else, it starts to activate these systems that bring everybody to the party to actually get there. But if you don't have it if you don't have clarity, I I mean, I've heard you quote stats from the stage.

What's the people that write down their goals? >> Mhm. Was it 80% more likely?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because you're giving your brain clarity.

>> That's why the baby steps I feel like in our world are so effective because it's like step one, get a thousand dollars.

Step two, get out of debt. Step three, it's a it's an obvious pathway of a vision of where you want to go.

>> With measurement accountability that has the question. Once you've defined the specific activities that are going to move the needle, then you've got to ask yourself on a regular cadence, "Am I doing what I said I was going to do?" >> Mhm. And if I'm not, I got to correct that problem, which we all have problems, we miss a day. But if you don't correct it quickly, it becomes a pattern. Patterns are mutations in the strategy that become your DNA and DNA becomes

identity. Mhm. So, I'm not a person that missed a payment. I'm a person that misses payments. You got to fix it

quickly. Mhm. Yeah. So, what must be true that's not true now? And one of the things one of the five things is do you have the the the talent around you or in your or

within yourself to you know, in in a business setting, you know, do we have the right people on the team to be able to pull the thing off that we just said we wanted to pull off? >> That's right. >> And if you look at them and you go, "That bunch isn't going to get us there." >> That's right. Then you got to get different people on the team.

Well, what about when it's an individual and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and going, "I don't have that talent." Well, we don't usually.

even if you wanted to let's say you want to lose 50 lb.

Well, you've been trying and it's not working. So, obviously all the talent isn't present. And so, what do you do?

You go bring the talent around you.

Who's that going to be? Well, it could you it could be one you pay for. It could be Weight Watchers. It could be a coach. It could be a trainer. It could be Uncle Sam. Who not that Sam. Uncle Joey.

>> [laughter] >> Uncle Sam's probably not going to help you do >> Uncle Sam help you lose weight for sure.

I'm a wallet. >> yeah. But but you're going to you're going to have We were not designed to get anywhere by our self. If you if there's somewhere you can get by yourself, somebody else helped you to get that ability to begin with. So, you got to find out where are the deficits and who do I need to bring to the party that can help me. And that's what that's what people in debt do with you guys. They find the talent that's going to help them get there. Yeah.

So good. Okay, so when people are when they look out there and they have a goal and they think, "Here's what I want to do." And that could be again bettering your marriage. That could be a health goal. That could be a money goal. Whatever that looks like or even within business. What's a mistake people make all the time that you're like, "Oh, this if they knew one of these five things or if they were doing this differently they they probably wouldn't make it as much or at all. The biggest mistake

besides the vision, I mean you got to know where you're going. But the biggest mistake is they're like my dog Finley.

She's got a job. She's got a goal. It's to protect the house. Stranger comes to the door, she runs to the house and barks, but she never stops and says, "I wonder if that was helpful." I Is that going to get me closer to where I want to be on Thursday? So, the biggest mistake is they don't get above

what they're doing and ask the question,

"Is this going to work? Are the ingredients present that are going to get me there?" What we do is we just continue to go in our own patterns. The caller earlier that I heard when I was in the green room, he wants to start a business. If he started a business, which you gosh, you got to start he would just go do the way he's already wired. >> Mhm. And a lot of times until we learn

something and we do things the way we're already wired, it good luck with that. Yeah. What must be true that's not true today?

And you know, is it Do I need more talent around me? Do I need new some education that I didn't have?

>> control. You impulse control? Yeah, I mean, what must be true that's not been true that so far? What pattern what set

of movements have to change to get to the desired future? Cuz if it if there if something didn't need to change, you'd already be there. >> You You'd already be there. We wouldn't be We I mean, you know how to find lunch, right?

But look Here's Here's a good example. When you know, Tom Brady's got what this time five or six Super Bowl rings and Tampa Bay hadn't been to the playoffs in 14 years, called him and said, "Come down here and win a Super Bowl." Well, he knows how to do that. He didn't have a vision for that. But the first thing he did was he looked at that team, what's not true today.

He looked at that team, you're not going to win a Super Bowl without talent. There's four positions that are missing.

Next. Mhm. And they won the Super Bowl the next year. And got the people around them. That's right. That's right. >> just Brady. No, it wasn't just Brady.

>> your own talent. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. It's good. >> There's something missing. The new book is Your Desired Future. We'll be back with Dr. Henry Cloud talk a little bit more about it. The five essential steps that take you where you want to go.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, George Kamel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles? Just me?

Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So, it does whatever it wants.

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It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give EveryDollar a full-time job.

>> [music]

[music] >> Dr. Henry Cloud, the new book is called your desired future, the five essential steps to take you where you want to go.

So, step one is you got to know what the desired future is. It's called vision. Step two is what? Step two is you got to engage the talent, bring the talent around you that's going to help you get there. Step three? Step three is you got to know how you're going to get there, and that's a strategy with a plan.

Okay. So, in our world that would be the baby steps. That'd be the baby steps, and the the plan tells you when you're going to implement those, who you're going to meet with, you know, you got to get to >> Every detail. Every activity that's going to move the needle. Everything else is I'm going to go to the gym three days a week. Strategy is I'm going to increase my water intake, decrease my sugar intake, so on, right? Yeah, and and that's how you're going to pay down this amount the this amount every month.

And you got to then you got to step four is measurement accountability of that.

Are you doing what you said you were going to do? And if you're not then you better ask the question, why not? And solve that problem, and then fix it quickly.

So, I've heard it said um I think it was an old Earl Nightingale quote that don't when it comes to goal setting, and all this is is a um

a a detailed approach to actually implementing and causing the goal to happen, not just setting. It's not just simple setting it. But, he used to say that um doing what it takes to hit the goal is not usually people's problem. It's what they have to give up.

Long term, too. They don't they don't understand what they're going to have to give up to get there. That's right.

>> I had the trade-off is what the the negative trade-off is the real price to be paid to get to your desired future. >> That's right. Because usually the things we have to give up, there's an emotional attachment. Mhm. Or there's some sort of

immediate gratification in it. Yeah. It

feels good to go make that impulse buy.

It feels good to eat that hot fudge sundae. feels good to avoid that difficult conversation. It feels good to not have to make 100 sales calls.

And there's that kind of immediate comfort or gratification. Or there's an

avoidance of something difficult.

You know, a lot of times difference in people that reach goals and the ones that don't it's not brains and talents and abilities. It's some are willing to do

the things the other people don't want to do. And the number one factor that loads on

the accomplishment of a goal is not motivation because that will wane. Now, that's important, but your motivation's going to go up and down. Number one factor is the belief that it's possible.

The belief that it's possible.

And the little incremental steps that bring that about. One of the things that you I keep talking about you guys cuz you you've been doing this well for so long. There

are so many people that are drowning in debt. How am I going to It's impossible.

It's possible. And then they turn this on and they see somebody who was in more debt than them come and do the stream.

And what do they do? Their prefrontal cortex kicks in and says, "Wait.

It's possible." Now, I checked that one off. Now, I just got to get the plan.

But if your brain doesn't believe that That's why testimonies are so powerful.

And being just getting getting out of your

circle. Some people grow up in poverty or belief systems and you can't make money if you don't have money and all this junk in their head. You got to get out of that circle even to begin to have

a vision for what's possible. That's why you got to surround yourself with people that have done it and are doing it. Then

it becomes possible. Now, I got to get curious about how they do it. Yeah, and creating creating the new habits around it. And what you said about the comfort, you're having to give up what's comfortable. Michael Easter was on the show last week talking about the comfort crisis, his book, and how Oh gosh. >> When you Yeah, when you do anything difficult, you're go you're going to feel that stress. You're going to feel that tension. But most the time that result

ends up being a better situation for your life than where you were. But yet in our world today in 2026, I'm like it's the comfort's everywhere though, right? We get to set the degrees that we want in the room. We get to listen to the music we want when we want it, watch what we want I mean it's just we can Amazon I mean like the amount of comfort we have today on demand on demand, personalized to us of what we want, our algorithms, everything.

Like it is wild to to get out of that. Do you feel like it's harder today than ever before? It's you know one of the ones that scares me the most is the parental comfort.

>> It is a lot more comfortable to hand your kid an iPad to shut him up

than to step in there and have some limits and some boundaries and go through that temper tantrum or whatever you got to do. And we have a generation

of kids that have grown up that

have not heard the word no and had to deal with the discomfort of hearing the

word no and the structure. And that one scares me. >> Interesting. From a generational standpoint. >> Yeah, it's This is the first two generations that we've ever had a parent call when we're interviewing someone.

For a job.

We're doing a job interview and the parent gets involved. >> Oh, in your company? >> Yeah. The parent Yeah, the mother of the of the 24-year-old will call. And say what? Like they applied They want to they they want to influence the process.

Oh. They want to help. Yeah, so life for that mom, you should influence that process years ago. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

No, I mean that they they want to they want to help Junior get a job. And and you know, but instead they just, you know, they did just the opposite by calling. Because I don't That makes me think, I don't think I want this guy. No, cuz you got to hire mom, too, to get to work done.

>> That's right. That's right. That's right. But yeah, but but stepping out of the comforts, um, I think it's a big one for people today to achieve the goal that you're talking about and what you're talking about in this book.

[clears throat] Name one thing of value that gets better without pain first.

Some kind of price, yep. We can we There's two paths. There's easy and then it's going to become harder or there's hard now and then it'll be a lot easier. Those are the only two roads you can go down. Pick your pain. You're going to have a little now and a lot more later or you can have

you know, Yes. the other side where you take a little pain now. It It hurts to pay down that debt a little bit each week, but look what you're going to have

later. That's right. >> Pay a price to win. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. >> That's it. I have watched this boy right here in the last 5 years. I played golf

with him. You talk about pain.

>> [laughter] >> That boy and everybody with him was going I mean, we're looking for balls in swamps and places >> [laughter] >> they don't let people But but listen to this. And it's painful and he would just hit it and then he was off and then he'd go do the And but he put a strategy together. He got laid.

And I'm playing with him now.

It's unbelievable, but he had to go through the pain first. And we shared it, but we loved it. Okay, Henry, I think one of my Dad Dave said it [clears throat] at the last segment. One of the my your favorite one of my favorite books for you is Boundaries.

And you talk about necessary endings. There's been a couple of these.

Um, what caused you to write this book because you have been in the relation You were in the relational right counseling world for so long, too. And moving kind of more to the business side as well with people, but why specifically what need did you see that you're like, I need to write this book?

The need for people wanting to get somewhere whether in business or or personally, but not having just a simple

path of how it works.

And it applies to everything. You know, if you look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, they both had a vision similar.

You look at how the styles were very different, but these five elements were present in both. And if you can just have a simple path, then it's easy to get up in the morning and say, "Okay, are these things in place?" >> Mhm. It's what it is. It's a clear the clear message. I love it.

So good. >> Very good stuff. The new book is Your Desired Future, the five essential steps

that will take you where you want to go.

And my big takeaway Henry and I worked together on this and we worked a little bit with a Pat Lencioni, too, on a modified model that he and I used as well as we put all this together as as Henry put all this together, but we stole pieces of this. And the whole thing I get to is just, "Okay, this is where I desire to be. What must be true

that's not true today? Positively, what must I gain, but also must what must I give up?" >> To get to where I need to be to get to that vision and then lay out the clear steps, put the talent in place, uh and then hold and measure and accountability and then don't let the patterns shift off of the goal. Dr.

Henry Cloud, my friend, thank you for hanging out with us. >> Hey Carlos, good to be with you always.

Check it out. The book is Your Desired Future. Absolutely amazing.

>> [music]

>> Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

Our scripture of the day is Psalms 37:21. The wicked borrows, but does not pay back. But, the righteous is generous and gives. Bob Hope said, "A bank [music] is a place that will lend you money if you can prove you don't need it." >> [laughter] >> Somewhat true.

Hey, buying or selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price.

It's easy. Just compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with. We don't put anybody on Ramsey Trusted that's not Ramsey Trusted. Yeah, you can find a real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent and click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

John is in Boston. Hey, John, how are you?

I'm doing great. How about you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh that's good to hear. Yeah, so I am in a kind of a precipice with my job right now. So, I am working in finance. I'm

making a good living, but I'm considering quitting it to do my YouTube full-time, which has been pretty successful lately. So, the instability of it worries me and I'm not sure if I should make the jump on it. Got you.

What do you make at the finance job?

So, right now I'm pulling in about 90K after bonuses. And what's the YouTube income looking like?

So, recently it's been about 250,000,

but this hasn't been like this I've only been doing this for a few years. It hasn't been like this consistently enough.

But >> Uh but you made twice as much.

Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's just I I worry

that, you know, with the instability of how my income goes up and down each month. Um I've even had a scare where I almost lost the channel and YouTube could just go poof overnight.

>> Okay, that's true. >> though it's >> They they might not go poof, but they might poof you.

Yeah, my channel specifically. Yeah, that that's going to stay around. >> That's happened to That's happened to better people than you. Yeah. And so, um

uh good job though. Yes, you ought to work on the YouTube. What What I mean, you're able to pull off a quarter of a million dollars. What advantage would you have if you were working full-time at it?

What could you do?

I've considered trying to expand it.

I've also kind of plateaued in terms of what I can do on the channel. I've tried everything I could. Um and So, what advantage is there to quitting?

Your finance job? >> I'd be a lot happier. And it's going to be >> [laughter] >> I wouldn't be working all the time.

Okay, but it doesn't really add revenue.

It doesn't add revenue.

No, it's it's mainly cuz I know with the finance job, I'm in a great career path.

Long-term, I'm going to be set for life.

Like, I will be financially sound, and you know, I'm at a point in my life where soon enough, I'm probably going to want to settle down, buy a house. I want to have a consistent income and know that, you know, when I'm 40, 50, whatever, I'm still going to have that income. >> income is as consistent as you are for

the next 5 years.

Okay? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And

unless you do something to poison pill yourself. Okay, you say something or do something that gets you banned for life, right? That kind of a thing. But as long as you stay uh you know, keep your nose clean, so to speak, you know, you're going to be fine. The thing that the biggest danger there is twofold

of you know, you're a finance guy, so you're not when you're you you you have one platform that you're doing everything on. You're not well diversified, so you are completely subject to the whims of the YouTube algorithm, and they do change every day.

I mean >> Correct. >> Yeah, we we've had we've had we had literally billions of downloads on YouTube. So, our guys really know what they're doing here at Ramsey with this stuff. And so, we make a lot more than 250 on it. But the but it's also we're not we made the decision to be platform agnostic and not be exclusively stuck to uh this one particular thing.

So, we didn't buy one single stock. We want to be diversified and have a mutual fund. You follow the metaphor?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, you need other places to be doing whatever this wonderful thing is that's getting all these eyeballs.

Like a podcast platform, uh Spotify also now has video. Uh you

need to have other places carrying you, and that stabilizes you. And you need to

be very aware of everything that's changing TikTok now has video.

Everything is changing every day in all of the platforms and be following the trends not but but don't put don't make don't move all the house chips on one platform. Don't bet the farm on one platform. That's your danger.

Right now. >> Right. >> If you had a more diversified platform strategy and it worked that out, you'd be a lot safer and as YouTube becomes a thing of

the past becomes the MySpace of the day, right? Uh and someday it will, uh every every one of these technologies Twitter was a big deal and then it wasn't and now it's trying to be again, but I mean these things come and go as long as you're not dependent on one of them and you know the next one to jump on to then you're not going to get eaten by the alligators.

So, I would diversify my platforms and then I would quit. Yeah, and I assume John the content you're putting [clears throat] out you you you love.

Would you say like you're good at it?

It's a passion. It's fun.

Oh, yeah. I definitely um I have a lot

of fun doing it which I don't hate my day job. It's just I have a lot more fun. >> times your day job, you can't call [clears throat] your day job stable compared.

Cuz you got to screw this up for four freaking years to break even as your break even analysis.

If you're making 400 because you've got more platforms going and you're making 100 on the other, you got four years of margin to screw up.

Mhm. That's not unstable.

That's like saying I that's like saying I can make 150 as a CPA in the open market, but I want to make 40 working for the state government because it's stable. Well, that's not stable. That's just mathematically stupid.

You follow me? >> Mhm. Yeah, they could fire me at any time.

So, I guess in that sense it's also >> And you're you're only as secure as your ability to leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home at any time. All of us are.

All right. And so, can you go get another position and do something else with another platform? And if you've got multiple platforms, then you're not handcuffed, golden handcuffed to one of the platforms. Are you married, John?

No, he said he wanted to settle down later, right? Oh, not yet. Okay. Yeah, I'm in my mid-20s, so hopefully within the next few years. >> Yeah. I was just curious. Now, the other thing is this, I we haven't discussed the content, and I'm not going to cuz I don't want to get get into that with you, but is the content a fad?

Not necessarily.

It has ups and downs. Okay, like we we had a guy we got a friend named Jimmy.

What's Jimmy's last name? The generosity guy? Uh what? Darts. Darts. Jimmy Darts.

Jimmy's making a bazillion dollars, and he's got a generosity play on thing on YouTube that's massive. He's killing it. It's massive. Generosity is

not a fad.

He does this wonderful thing giving creates giving situations, helps people, all this stuff, and it's fabulous content. But like making slime, that was a fad 2 years ago. All the kids were doing it, and now not as much. So yeah, that's a good point. >> Whatever you're doing, it can't be something that's going to that that the actual content is not What we do is going to people are going to be in debt as long as there are people.

So, we're not going to run out of material, you know, we're not going to run out of content. And so, our stuff is what we call evergreen in the business, in content business, okay? So, you want as long as you're evergreen and you got multiple platforms, you don't don't confuse that with stability. You have stability cuz you have talent at that point. >> Mhm. It's good. >> Yeah. Good job, man. Very cool. That's a neat neat discussion. Well, and I would

always think too in the back of my mind if all this, you know, whatever went poof in 4 years. His knowledge of finance and what he if he had to go back into the workforce and do it, he could.

>> Yeah. You know what I mean? You're in your mid-20s. >> Yeah.

Finance doesn't change. >> do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, even what you've been doing in your day job, John, um gives you a little bit of that kind of back pocket get out of free jail card in a way that you're like, "Okay, if it all does Yeah, 5 years from now, 2 + 2 still going to equal 4. >> I can plug back in. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Dadgum. Yeah, for sure.

That's right. Yeah. >> You know, it's the same kind of thing. >> of business, my same thing. >> not but you might not be viewed as having a fresh resume or whatever, but you can get moving again on it. And so, you got a good fall back um and that knowledge of that world should give you some business insight, some business acumen into managing your new Mhm.

>> digital >> [music] >> career. Very cool.

>> How fun. Good luck with it all.

>> Amen. I hope you get I hope you do wonderful things with it. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily >> [music] >> to the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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## 142. Stop Avoiding The Hard Truth About Your Finances | April 1, 2026


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:38:37 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal [music] is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit [music] Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Stefan is with us in Denver. Hey, Stefan, what's up?

Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve, man. How can I help?

So, I'm in kind of a a tight pickle here. I um about a few months ago, um I was looking to move and I needed to move quick um because the living situation I was in

um was not good for my kids. It The neighborhood drastically turned and became extremely dangerous. And

um so, I took out um a bridge loan to kind of try to get me into a new home.

And um I was hoping that I was going to come in at a competitive price. My price is already like $30,000 less than what I

what my home was worth. And it's almost 6 months now. And my home my old home has still hasn't

sold. Uh-huh. And I owe

um 169.5 by the end of the month. And the two options for me um are not the greatest. So, I don't know which one to do. They will either purchase a home um but I still have to cover bring 7,000

to the closing plus 2,000 carrying cost

every month it's not sold. Or I refinance again with them at 143,000

and pay 33,000 at closing.

Um and then sell it for to keep it on the market for whoever knows how long.

I've tried reaching out to investors.

Um and >> get this loan with?

With Up Equity.

Oh. Okay. And >> So this is not a standard bridge loan.

This is I'm going to This is an I'm going to screw you bridge loan. Uh-huh.

And in a very short period of time. Mhm.

Yeah. And I didn't realize that and like I said my my situation, I mean, there was ramp their crime was raising and I needed to get my boys out of there as quickly as possible. You can't use that excuse anymore because now you've stepped neck deep into stupid. What you should have done is gone and rented a property if you need to get your boys safe instead of going into this instead of set stepping up with some loan shark.

Yeah. So. Yeah. Instead you went and bought a house that was not required for you to get out of the neighborhood. You could have got out of the neighborhood and gone and rented something. So anyway, we're here now. What do we do now? Um and you're not bankable. What's the house on the market for?

Um right now I just dropped the price again. It's at 170.

And is it free and clear?

Uh no, I had >> was before the bridge loan.

Uh like uh what do you mean like free and clear? >> have a mortgage on it prior to taking the bridge loan?

Yes, I did.

Of how much?

Uh 128.

Oh boy. >> the bridge loan pay off the 128?

Yes, it does. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thanks. >> only debt against this is the $169,000 bridge loan. You dropped the price to 170 to try to get rid of it.

Correct. Okay. All right. Ouch.

And the investors like so far the

offers that I've gotten are 115, 120, and so I'm looking at 60, you know, 50 to 60,000 dollars of basically

deficient deficient deficient pay.

>> Do you have any money?

I have about 26 in savings and checking.

What about cars?

Um I I own my car outright, but yeah, I have a car. >> What's it worth?

Um I don't know what it'd be worth now, maybe 17, 15. What do you make?

Um I make just um about 92 a year. Okay. Have you talked

to your credit union about a you know, like a $100,000 $150,000 loan and you put 26 with it

and get rid of the loan sharks and just put a credit union loan on it and take the panic out of this discussion? Mhm.

Um no, I haven't really considered that yet.

That would have been where you should have gone first before you did the loan shark deal, but um

Wow. Yeah, I mean, refinancing it without with and getting these people out of the picture on a five-year balloon note or something makes a lot more sense and then you've got some room to take the beating that apparently you're going to take on price and some room to cover the difference.

But right now, I mean, if you write a check for 7,000, you're still on the hook for $2,000 a month for another $24,000 a year. Is that what you told me? Basically, yeah. With the with the loan shark guy. So, you write a check for 7,000, you're not out.

No, I'm not.

>> [snorts] >> Okay. So, that's not really an option. That's like going from bad to worse.

So, I would rather you write a check for 26,000 and take out a hundred and forty thousand dollar loan with a credit union on a hundred and seventy thousand dollar house um or something along those lines or for that matter I would rather you let's establish you are in debt a hundred and seventy thousand with a rip off okay that's where we are today right? So now if we restructure that debt I don't care how we restructure it as long as we get rid of these guys. So if you bought a borrowed a hundred thousand from the credit union put twenty-six thousand in it and put thirty thousand on a credit card.

Fine.

Mhm.

And just because credit card you just got a series of payments they're not going to come take the house they're not you know but these guys that you signed up with woo Guido man.

Wow. Yeah. I really um I really wish I

hadn't done that and I thought I was doing what was best for my self and for the kids but >> You were you were leaving was best for your kids. I'm not making that argument but how you left oh man oh my gosh yeah.

I would have just put the house on the market left and gone and rented a rented something but that's behind us now. For those of you out there that are listening so yeah that that's um restructure this somehow and get these goobs out of your life. Get Guido out of your life. >> The lesson for the listener is when you're fearful and you do things out of fear you have to really think

every way about the decision you're making and when you do things in urgency. So those are the two things that need to make you stop and go wait a minute let me make sure I'm making the right choice and I'm not does that make sense? >> can look back on the worst deals I've done in my life and they usually followed me being desperate.

>> Yeah there you go. Desperate for me always equals stupid.

As soon as I get desperate right after that my brain quits working and I do something stupid. >> Right cuz the logic behind the The behind what he did is exactly right, but that's just a good word to the wise. >> Yeah, and and you know, and when you do something stupid and it cost you money, when I do that, I call I have to write a check for my stupidness.

I write in the four column on the check, stupid tax. Yes. You have to pay a tax

when you're stupid. And we've all done it. >> so much stupid tax in my life which qualifies me to host this show.

>> [laughter] >> Exactly. >> Because I have a PhD in DUMB.

So I know I know from whence you come.

And so if I say you've done something stupid, it's cuz I love you >> [music] >> and you're just like me. >> Your people are my people. >> you're my people. [laughter]

>> [music]

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Andrew's in Atlanta. Andrew, what's up?

Hey, how's it going, Dave? It's really nice to talk to you. You, too. How [clears throat] can we help?

Well, uh me and my wife are trying to decide if we should sell our rental property to pay off our debt. So, um in 2024, my my income was around 105,000

and um hers has stayed consistent, but uh my income dropped down to about 85,000 last year.

Um and we had this house built when we were when I was making a little bit more money and uh we have our rental property um and we're just looking to see if it's a good decision to sell it and pay the debt or if we should just go with the snowball uh effect like the snowball program. How much debt? What Yeah, how much debt?

Uh we got about $90,000.

Um it's it's actually about 87,000 if you include everything. Mhm. And um how

much of that is cars?

Uh about 65,000 of it is cars.

>> Oh wow. 65?

Yeah. So it's her I have a truck and her car. Yeah, and what does she make?

Uh she makes $48,000 a year. Okay. And so you have a $135,000 income.

Right?

Did I get that right? Yeah, I did. All right. Maybe a little bit more. May maybe maybe a maybe 140. Okay. How much of the 65 is the truck?

Uh 40 of it is the truck. Okay.

Uh what's the rental property worth?

Uh it it appraised last year at 265,000

and we owe about 160 on it. Okay, she got a hundred in equity roughly.

Not counting fees and miscellaneous. And um what's your home worth?

The one we live in right now appraised at 410. And what do you owe on it?

Uh 328.

Okay. All right, cool.

Okay.

I do you if you did not have a hundred thousand dollars in debt would you be looking to sell the rental property anyway?

No. No, I I I look at real estate as the kind of a long-term investment um something that I mean, how long have you had the rental property?

Um so it we've had it for six years. How how are you doing as landlord?

Are you good at it? >> pretty well. Yeah, I mean we've had only had two tenants. This last tenant's been there for 3 years. Um It's it's been actually been relatively pleasant. We kind of live out a little bit away from the city, so it's it's been relatively nice. When your income went down, did it affect uh the amount of your mortgage on your on your take-home pay?

Is that where this is stemming from?

Um well, I think So, it just I think cash flow just kind of died when my income went down. And then Right. >> it exposed the stupidity of these car purchases.

So, no, I wouldn't sell the rental property. I'd sell both cars. Mhm.

Yeah, cuz what's the payment on those combined? >> get two $5,000 cars that are cash, and then I'd plow my way through with a $140,000 income, plow my way through the little bit of debt that's left, and keep the rental property.

Cuz it's going up in value, and that stupid butt truck isn't.

No, no. I mean I do use I use the truck in my line of work. >> Wha Right, >> making an excuse. >> The cars are 3/4 of the debt. How great would that feel for those to be gone?

It would feel good. What What would I do in a situation that they're upside down?

I mean, what's the best route >> How much upside down are they?

Well, the truck's not upside down.

>> Okay, that's the first one to go then.

Yeah. Yeah, the cars >> You're not going to do it. $10,000.

You're not going to do it. >> think you're uncomfortable enough. I think that you had some discomfort So, here's the thing. You had a pile You had a $100,000 pile in the middle of the table, and instead of buying a rental property, you went and bought cars.

If you keep the cars, that's what happened. If you don't keep the cars, you say I bought a rental property with my 100 grand. >> [snorts] >> But, you're deciding right now between the two based on this. And um

you know, you you've already you've already dipped your toe in there twice since we've been talking to you about keeping this truck. Trying to figure out a reason to keep the truck. Trying to figure out a way if I'm you, I listen, I got a great truck. I got a Raptor R.

It's my one of my favorite cars. It's a I'm a truck guy. Loud redneck muffler. I love it, man.

It's incredible. And I'm I'm with you on owning a truck. I'm not with you on trading a truck for a rental property. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Rental properties go up in value here in the Atlanta market, for God's sakes. >> You also got to play best and worst case scenario.

Worst case scenario, he sells this truck. He hates having the eight or nine hundred dollars a month back in his pocket. And he says, you know what? I I didn't like that.

I'm going to go get a truck. Almost almost sell the rental property and then go buy a truck. >> Yeah, that's the I mean, truly you have that choice. >> in truck if you did that.

If you if you decide owning this truck is a better idea than owning the rental property, um which I'm not in agreement with. We were telling you up front. But she's right.

And if you hate having that cash

back in your life, then Yeah. >> get it back. Go back and get it. Go sell the sell the rental property and go buy you car for cash. And then you can, you know, you can undo this at any time.

>> That's true. So, yeah, I would get rid of the cars, both of them, and see how my life feels. And after 90 days, if you if you think, "Oh, Ramsey she's full of it. It's like I think I joined a cult." You know, then then sell your rental property and take the money from that and go buy some cars.

Cuz it's the same thing, dude.

It's the same thing. But all you all you at least you could test the theory. >> Mhm. That's a good point. I like that.

>> theory. >> Try this stuff for 90 days and if at the end of 90 days you hate it, you'll never you'll never go back. >> You've been on the air for 30 years.

>> Never had anybody go back. >> No one's ever called back and said, "Dave, I hate I hate you.

Because you made me debt free. Because you told me to sell my car and I don't have an $800 car payment, so I hate you.

That isn't that call I'm not gotten. Now, I've got a lot of people that hate me for a lot of re- >> That's saying something. But I mean, there's a long list of reasons to be pissed at Dave. And they're out there on the internet. If you don't just type in Dave Ramsey sucks. It goes for days. And so but that that's but that's not but that's not one of them. That's Listen, we let calls through >> my car and I am debt free and I hate

Dave Ramsey is something we have never heard once. I've never even seen I might go on the break and look on social media and see if there's any sort of hashtag about that. I guarantee it's not.

>> No, there's not. There's not. And our social media team would have already told me. I don't go look at it, but I'm afraid they do. And so Testing testing is good.

>> Yeah, and here's the same thing with pay off the house. Those of you I have $150,000 in my CD and I owe 100 on my house, should I pay off my house? How many times we taking that call? Oh, yeah.

Like 5 million times and I'm like pay off your house. If you hate it, you can go get a mortgage. And same thing you did. Just test it.

And you know what? Never. I've never had anybody write me hate mail. Dave, I paid off my house.

I hate you. I've never had that one time. Now, there's a lot of people have all these theories about this. Dave Ramsey tells people pay off their house and they're not going to be rich because of it, but then there's all these tens of thousands of millionaires that are millionaires because they paid off their house and took the mortgage payment and went and became millionaires.

And there's one sitting in front of us right now from Houston. >> Yes.

Let me tell you. Yeah. Hello.

I had a guy, he had a a pile of stocks and a bunch of debt. And you know, we would say if you have stocks, sell the stocks, use it to pay off the debt. He didn't want to do that because he'd had the stock for quite a while. He had it since he was 18 years old.

And I said, "Listen." I said, "Try it." I said, "Take a portion of the stock. Just take a portion of it and pay off a portion of the debt and see how you feel." And he said, "I never considered doing that." It was in his mind it was an all or nothing deal and because it was all or nothing in his brain he chose the nothing.

And so if you're on the fence just try it. And you want to know what? He got a hold of me later and let me know it felt so good I sold the stock and I ended up paying off the rest of the debt. Just letting you know. >> of pastors that have said try tithing

for 6 months. If after 6 months you think that tithing is to your local church is wrong, I'll give you a money back guarantee on it. None of them have ever had anybody ask for their money back. >> Wow.

>> [music]

[music]

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Christian is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Christian, how are you?

Good. How are y'all? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I am a college student and I do have a little bit of credit card debt, but I also have a pretty big tuition payment coming up in June cuz I'm looking to transfer schools and I don't know the best way to go about this.

Saving up for the tuition?

Yes. >> How much is it? >> in in June will be 15,000. Oh boy. You

have the money? Yeah.

Yeah, I have a I have 11,000 saved up cuz I do work two jobs and I'm a full-time student and my credit card debt is about 2,400. And so I don't know if it'd be better just to throw two grand at the credit card debt and take a little loan out and student loans or save up the 15 the rest of the way and then pay that and then uh pay a little more to the credit card debt when I can after I make the payment.

Mhm. Yeah, cuz I've been paying for cash the last year for school. I paid about 1,800 a month. So why why 15,000

a semester?

Uh so it's a the online degree and so I'll start in June, make the payment and I'll be done by next June cuz I already have my associate's degree and then this will be online course to get my bachelor's in biomedical sciences.

Okay. So you're making this payment and then when's the next payment due before you finish in June? >> I I Or that's it?

>> it in online. It would just be just this one payment. That's what the advisors have told me as well. It's just the one payment. I don't know if they do payment plans or not. Okay, but I >> So you're pre-paying for the entire year? Yes, sir. Okay. And you said you have 11,000 saved, so you're just solving for the 4,000, right?

Yes, ma'am. >> And he can have the 4,000 by June. Yeah.

>> So pay cash for the tuition. No, so here's the thing. The trick to getting out of debt is to vow never to borrow again. You already have debt. So let's just let that sit there, pay minimums on that, and save up and pay cash for this tuition. And then work on the debt

beyond that. Now, if you're doing online, are you going to be working full-time at that point?

Yes, sir. So I work full-time as a certified medical assistant and also bartender on the weekends. Okay, good.

So that's where all this money's coming from. So you're going to have the money to live during this year while you finish this up and go ahead and knock out the credit card debt.

Yes, sir. Look at you. Look at you. Well done. Yeah. Yeah, I I wouldn't fool around. I'd pay cash for the tuition, not have anything lingering from that decision, and then the old decision that's still sitting there come back and attack it as quickly as you can once you've got 15,000 in the bank. Do you know why Christian we're telling you not to go into debt?

Further. >> Uh I did not know. No. Okay, let's talk about that. So because you've considered

obviously you've considered that you used it for credit cards, you're you considered it as a solution for your problem right now. The reason Dave and I are telling you, "Hey, draw a line in the sand, no more debt going forward." is because debt eats at your ability to build wealth over time.

It steals your It steals your hard-earned income and causes you not to be able to do things like invest, not to be able to do things like pay cash for emergencies, and that is a vicious cycle. That is why we're on the air is because it creates a vicious cycle in people's lives and they can't get ahead.

>> Yeah, exactly. Well done, sir. You are working your way through this. I like you. Well done. It's good to find people that work hard and get and and achieve their goals as a result. Quinn is in Philadelphia. Hi Quinn, how are you?

Hi, I'm so excited to talk to you and

Jade. Um so my question is about my employer who's telling me that I owe them about $17,000 due to an error that they made with over paying me over the past year and a half that I recently uncovered and brought to them. Oh boy.

Yeah. You figured it out.

Yeah. >> And they want you to repay them.

That's [clears throat] correct. >> And what Um yeah. What did they say?

When do they want the money by?

>> [laughter] >> So they want the money by the end of this fiscal year which is July but then it's actually October because that's when we get our bonuses.

Um so the error was I came back from maternity leave in September 2024.

Um I wanted to start work at 9:00 a.m.

instead of 8:00. I'm a physician.

And um getting there at at 8:00 was just too hard. We have four kids. Um and so it was really just a couple days a week. It went from I went from a 1.0 employee to 0.95 or like 95% effort basically. I

didn't notice the change on my my my paycheck. Back then I really wasn't paying attention to anything.

I was the typical doctor out of school um with doc items came out of fellowship thought I could you know So what is your what is your total What's your total income now, doc?

So my husband and I together make about 420.

Um I'm at like four Well, it was four

40 prior to sorry 240 prior to the the

change. Um Yeah, I didn't notice on my um my paycheck until recently. Last July we

came back from our like fourth vacation and I couldn't pay off my credit card at the end of the month and that's when I found you, read The Total Money Makeover, I'm convinced my husband, although I feel like I'm still convincing him some days, but um we're actually 2 weeks away from paying off all of our debt except our house.

Way to go. >> And going from step two to three, yeah, about $80,000. >> So the $17,000 accrued over the course of how many years?

I've got about a year and a half or since >> and a half. September of 2022.

>> $1,000 a month and your but your income's substantial. >> notice it. Yeah, so it's not it's $1,000 a month >> I'm going to get a bonus about that much. I'm just like I'm still upset about it because it

is so much money and like right at that time I'm going to be going from step um we're going to get out of step three in the summer.

And um that bonus would really help us like kickstart steps four, five, and six. Yeah. So I'm having a meeting with them next week and I'm just hoping you can give me some advice going into the meeting. I'm wondering if I should um talk to a lawyer ahead of time or just wait till afterward or if I have any like leg to stand on.

I am like highly productive. They they measure doctors like productivity based on how many patients you see and I've looked back and there were many months that I was over 100% um productive.

Yeah. So here's the thing. You you can ask an attorney. I don't think you um I don't think you have a legal case.

So I I don't think that's the lens through which I would open it. If you want to gather the information, it won't hurt anything, but ask so ask an attorney to learn that cuz but I cuz I'm not one. Um I I'm trying Okay, so if I had a highly compensated and I do I do have highly compensated folks on our team. And we made a clerical error that was

amounts to uh 5% of their income or 10% of their income, okay? Um here uh we would say, "Oops.

We screwed up." Right. Yeah. And I wouldn't >> was saying earlier. >> ask for it back, okay?

Uh, because I'd be embarrassed that we screwed up. You didn't steal the money.

You didn't um, deceive anyone. You Quite

the opposite. You're the one brought it to their attention.

>> Mhm. Hello. >> Right. Uh, and so I I I would just say, "Hey, um you know, I think it would be if I'm in the meeting, I might say something like guys, I if you look at my productivity, it's well beyond 100% which is very unusual on your staff. Um Mhm. I brought this error to your attention.

You probably would have never found it

if it wasn't for me.

You made the mistake.

You should be embarrassed. Mhm. And you

should consider just waving this.

For all of those reasons.

And uh, now you probably don't be quite that belligerent. >> to say. >> [laughter] >> But I mean, but that's the message. You know, okay. Let Let's Let's you know, I'm going to be sitting with my boss. I'm going to say, "Okay, boss. I'm one of your top guys.

I brought you the error.

And um I wondered if you would consider

being embarrassed about making the error and just wave it." You think Yeah. I Listen, I think they

should. >> Mhm. But only you Only you know that.

>> it's a morale and employee morale A high productive highly productive cuz finding another doctor to replace you when you leave over $17,000 >> [music] >> The thing is though >> And they don't know that's not going to happen.

That's It's going to cost them a lot more than that to fix the the they made here. If they hold you to this, cuz you're going to remember this forever. [music] And the first time some other low some other group comes knocking, you're going to be thinking about $17,000 instead of $800 and $17,000,

which is what the deal I mean Don't be stepping over >> [music] >> dollars picking up nickels. Yeah.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Bridget in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Bridget. How are you?

Good. And how are you Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Yeah, I was calling because my husband and I recently paid off about $24,000

worth of credit card debt. >> Good. >> And yeah, we're very excited about it.

Um but that frees up about $600 to $700

a month for us. And we still have some

medical debt that we were of course

considering, you know, just quickly paying that off. >> Good. >> But my sister actually lives overseas

and um we haven't seen her in 2 years and I've since then had a whole pregnancy and a baby.

Um so I would really like to be able to go over there and see her and introduce, you know, her niece to her. Um she can't come over here due to visa reasons, but I didn't know if that would be a bad idea and we should just continue with, you know, going with the medical debt route. >> medical debt have you got?

About 6,000.

How quickly could you have the 6,000 paid off? >> off 24,000.

Yeah, um It's not like you're It's not like you're not going to see your sister for 7 years.

We're talking a handful of months.

Yeah, the thing with the paying off the credit card debt large majority of it was due to a good tax return. So How No,

no, no, there's no such thing as a good tax return. A tax return is when you overpay your taxes and they give you the money back with no interest. That's not a good uh How big was the tax return?

About 10,000. Good lord. What's your household income?

My husband makes roughly 4,800 and then

I do a few contractor jobs

um and roughly bring in between 1,200 to 2,000. How in the world do you end up with a $10,000 tax return on a $50,000

income?

I'm not entirely sure. My mother-in-law does taxes. She has a tax business and was able to figure it out for us.

[laughter] But I do know we had a very um high-risk

pregnancy and our son was admitted to

the children's hospital for a few days um that same year. So I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I don't know. Stop. Okay, stop. Number one,

you need to get your crap together and you do need to know.

Someone else taking care of your taxes is how you end up not paying the proper amount of taxes and you have no idea what's going on. I don't mind having someone prepare my taxes. Someone does my taxes. But I'm going to understand

how my tax bill works and why. And you need to understand this because if you have $10,000 too much coming out of your check every year, that's $833 a month that should be in your check this next month cuz you should change your W-4s so that you quit over-withholding out your ears.

And that will help you clean up the $6,000. No, money. You should not go to Europe until you pay your $6,000. You should roll up your sleeves and finish the job. It's not like you're not like we're saying don't see your sister for 4 years. It's 4 months.

Bridget, this is what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about when you told us you were very excited that you cleared out the existing credit card debt at $600 a month. Uh but then you very quickly let us know that that was an anomaly.

And that let me know that you are not

really ready to go on this journey and I I I want to talk about this for a second because when you decide you're going to work the baby steps, you have a moment in time where it's like I have to I'm setting I'm setting the bar for what gets past, right? I'm setting the bar for what my lifestyle must be for this to happen. And there's going to be a a of things that are going to try to compete with the priority of of paying off debt, but you have to set a clean bar. We don't do anything.

We're we're cutting our lifestyle. We're not taking trips right now. And you're so early in the process and you had a an anomaly of a win, but you're already thinking about taking trips. And you've got 6,000 to go.

I would really encourage you to lock in because if you take a trip to Europe, then something else is going to pop up and you're going to go, "Ah, let's do that." And then something else is going to pop up and before you know it, you've been kicking the can down the road 2 years. So, that's why this is so important.

Um because I do it. I can I when because you're the drama queen that lives inside of our brains, all of us have one.

Um will will will just you know, sounds like a beagle chasing a rabbit. You know, it's like, >> [laughter] >> I've heard that. Yes. >> just like your your voice octave goes up and you and you're like, "Well, I haven't seen and you all of a sudden you sound whiny." I do it I do it to myself.

I hear it in my own voice sometimes. I'm like, "You are a whiner." Go back and look at any purchase you had buyer's remorse over and replay what went over in your brain. Exactly. The little whiner came out.

>> Yes. And like, "I deserve it. I work so hard." And I tell myself, "You work so hard. You work you So many years you've paid a price." [laughter] I deserve it.

I deserve it. As soon as you do that and you're I'll I'll guarantee you my your octave always goes up one. Everybody does it. And Bridget, you're doing it.

So, don't do that. Drop [laughter] drop your Drop your octave back down and be like a grown-up and go, "You know, I still got to clean up this stinking mess I made and then I'm going to go see my sister." >> Yeah, flip the script. Let it motivate you to get there faster. >> Yeah.

But you do whatever you want to do, Bridget, but you called and asked us and we're always going to love you enough to tell you the truth.

Um it's fairly predictable what's going to happen when you call this show.

Uh we're going to love you so much that we're going to be very truthful, even brutal with you when you call here. And that that's that's because we want you to win. And in the end of the day, you'll have a better trip for waiting. >> brand is about trust because you trust

us because we love you enough to tell you the truth. >> That's right. And you know, that's what this whole thing is about. And you know,

and my And then you get to hear the other side of it sometimes, and you know, the young guy that called last week I don't I don't know if you were on I think Rachel was on the air with me, and he said, "I called you when I was 22 years old, and you said if you will do these four things exactly and don't argue with me, do them exactly, you'll be a millionaire by the time you're 30." He said, "I'm 28 6 years later, and I'm a millionaire, and I called to tell you that." I love that.

And it's like he he said, "I did exactly what you said to do. I didn't argue with you." >> Yeah. And he goes, "And I And I got there 2 years earlier than you said I would. And I want to ask you about this other thing." And it wasn't a whining thing he was asking about.

It was a It was a legitimate question, but it was he the That was the preface to his question he was calling in about, though.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> that, you know, live like no one else so that later you can go to Europe when you want. And it's true. He said it, and she'll have a better trip for waiting and doing it the right way. But when you start to do the things we teach the way that we teach them, no holds barred, you do you go faster than you thought you were going to go because momentum is on your side, and it's like the moving sidewalk at the airport.

And that's my favorite part of it. >> Yeah, you're walking along, and you're walking under your own power, and God looks down and says, "Oh, you're faithful with the little things." >> 100% Yes. >> faithful with the little things, I'm going to give you more to manage." And so you're walking along, and then all of a sudden you're moving like you're moving on the sidewalk faster than you're actually walking. So, you're walking, but it's also moving under you and you end up arriving at the point faster because when you're faithful with the little things 100% of the time, he gives you more to manage.

And please don't expect for him to give you more to manage when you're unfaithful with the little things, disorganized, chaotic, immature, impulsive. When you're all of those things and we're now we're not fussing at Bridget, we've moved on from Bridget. Just in case Bridget, you know, we're not we're not preaching at you, but um preaching at all of us. And >> you think, Dave, that's the secret sauce behind this because I can say when Sam and I were paying off $460,000 of debt, looking at the Ramsey plan and going, "You know what?

This is biblically based. That means I can ask God, 'Hey, help me do this.'" >> Yep. And then I can get a yes because it's based on what he wants me to be doing anyway. Yeah.

God, your word says the borrower is slave to lender and then Jesus said it's tough to serve two masters. >> Mhm. So, help me, Lord.

>> Help me get out of this. And get give me some work to do.

>> Here's the thing I was going to Give me a raise at work. Oh, it's not going to be a check in the mail. It's going [laughter] to be work. >> This is not a This is not a random Yeah, the the the the the duck is not going to fly in the window already cooked, but he will take you duck hunting and let you get a duck, you know.

And so, then you get to pluck it and you get to cook it and eat it.

>> More opportunities, more work.

>> prosper. You know what diligence is? It's excellence in the ordinary.

Excellence every day, that's diligence.

And those are who prosper. That's who gets a raise, that's who gets the promotion, that's who the competitor comes along and steals if [music] you work in a toxic environment where they don't reward diligence. Someone will look over there and go, "Well, you look at that." And they will hire you away and you'll make more money than you've ever made in your life because you were >> [music] >> diligent. Mhm.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no

whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

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Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Roman is in Atlanta. Hi,

Roman. How are you?

Hey, I'm doing okay. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I inherited $100,000 and I'm likely

going to get $60,000 more when the house sells. I paid off my $30,000 of student loans already. Good. Um I just turned 23. I graduate in May. Wow. What's your degree in, Roman? I'm applying to law school this Uh I'm doing film and I focus on like

documentary. Good for you.

So, but that's kind of like kind of led me down this path where um like

I've been uh looking at government a lot, like involved in government documentary a lot, and I'm trying to get myself in a place where I can attend law school in 2027. And I plan to work and save until then. And I'm just like I have family who's advising to put like my money in like 50K in a CD and like 10 in a Roth and like 5% liquid investments and 5% liquid investments and my bank is trying to get me to invest it with their financial advisors. But I'm just not sure to do with that money knowing that I'm going to have that big expense of law school coming up.

Well, I mean, if I can I'm I'm aiming for UGA, which would only be UGA is only $60,000 in total. It's $20,000 a year to attend that UGA, but um I mean, this is only a year away.

What if you just let it sit in the high-yield savings account until you need it?

And I'm I did have somebody tell me to do that, too. So, I just don't know. I just don't know like I can tell you why I would do that.

I would do that because knowing that this is really short-term, I wouldn't want to mess around with any risk of investing it. I'd want to keep it pretty liquid because you're going to need it.

I mean, you said this is 2027?

I'm guessing >> Uh yeah, if I if I applied now, it'd it'd be 2027. >> You've not been accepted yet.

No, I I still have to take the LSAT and I've been studying for that. Okay. Okay.

So, here here's the thing. You have two pretty big hurdles to go to UGA.

You're going to have to score well on the LSAT cuz UGA's tough to get into.

>> Mhm. And then they have to accept you.

Right. >> So, you have two big blockers [clears throat] yet before this actually happens. So, we don't know if it's going to happen or not until we cross those two mountains. So, >> And you've probably got some backup schools there, yeah, that you've considered and the prices of those?

>> there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of like good schools in in Atlanta, too, like John Marshall and whatnot, but that you can afford to pay cash for with this money. So, you have 130,000 cash laying around between these all of these events. Did I understand that right after you paid off your debts? Uh well, the the the 60 is going to a house

that hasn't been sold yet. >> Yeah, but it it'll sell. It'll be selling sometime. I mean, it's up for sale, right?

Mhm. Uh yeah. Okay. All right. Good.

Okay. Well, the other people are trying to be your family's trying to be helpful. Your banker's trying to be a banker.

So, asking a banker what to do with money is like asking a dog if it's hungry.

So, no. We don't They're 100% of the time they have an opinion and it's put it with me. So, no. We don't need a banker's advice on anything. No, thank you.

Um Mom and Dad mean well and yeah, a Roth IRA with 7,000 of this is not going to keep you from having the money to do to go to law school if you're filing a tax return and making at least 7,000. That's not a bad thing to do.

It's not going to make or break your life. The best investment Roman that you

can make is to attend law school and pass and then pass the bar.

That's a better investment that's a better return on the 60,000 than if you invested in mutual funds or real estate.

Okay? So the 60,000 you're investing in

the best investment I know of which is you.

All right. And so I want you to just like Jade said just protect this money and does it kind of make does it kind of feel calm to do nothing? I think doing nothing is a really cool idea. Just park it in a high yield savings super boring.

I don't have to worry about being sophisticated. I simply got the money sitting there making a few points while I get ready to go to law school.

Ta-da! Just Just and then just go have a good night's sleep.

Yeah, that that does sound nice even.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah, and then just tell everybody else thank you for thank you for loving me and I've just decided what I'm going to do is concentrate on law school and when I get out of law school I'll be a lawyer and I'll make money and I got plenty of time to build wealth with that.

Mhm. Cuz 60 or 80,000 dollars is not going to make you wealthy anyway Roman.

Right. I mean they didn't leave you 6 million they left you 60.

So it's it's it's nice. I'm glad you got some but but everybody's acting like you hit the lottery or something and you did but it was like a small ticket you know.

So Yeah, just just calm calm calm.

Get to one of the things having too many choices in front of us uh it gets confusing and anxiety goes up. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah, and so when I narrow my choices down and go decision has been made I'm I'm to do nothing on purpose.

That's my decision. I'm going to park it in high yield savings, super boring. I'm not going to lose it. It's going to be sitting there when I pass the LSAT, get a good score, and get into UGA, and then I'm going to head to Athens in the

edge of the mountains of beautiful North Georgia, and I'm going to be a lawyer.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, doing nothing doesn't mean you're not being 100% intentional. Exactly. You can intentionally do nothing. But the the power of making a decision when there's too many decisions in front of you is the stress and anxiety drops immediately. >> Yeah. Too many choices is very stressful.

And so I just go, "No." No. You know, I think that's what happens when people look at their money, and they think, "Should I be paying off my debt? Should Should I be investing?

Should I be saving for kids' college?

Should I be paying off my credit card?" Like And then when they when we just say, "Don't do this. One thing at a time. >> do this, and then do this." Their stress level goes down, and they go execute.

>> Yeah, it's a plan. >> Yeah, it's a plan. Work the plan. Work the proven plan. And so the proven plan here, Roman, is the best investment Roman can make is in Roman.

Uh and that is in training your brain

so that it is more eligible for more income. Yes. And uh that is not dropping 100 grand in an independent film that you decide to go make. That's not what I said. >> [laughter] >> Okay? You got a degree in film. No, but it's not what I said.

Yeah. >> say invest in a track record. I mean,

you know, if you want to be a lawyer, and you want to be a good lawyer, you can make a good income as a lawyer.

That's a good thing. And Lord knows we need some good lawyers, cuz there's plenty of dumb ones out there. So um phew.

All right, don't get me started. Yeah.

>> like you you almost went on a tangent.

That's okay. >> I just I just self-edited right there on the air. >> was a good job, Dave. >> Good good good move. [laughter] Yeah, you're So guys, anytime you're a college student, or you have a college student, and they say I have the money for tuition, should they invest that instead of a mutual fund? Always tuition, assuming they're studying something that is marketable.

Don't get a degree in left-handed puppetry or German polka history, you'll be a barista.

Okay, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is get a degree that's usable in the marketplace, and the knowledge that you put in your tool belt will make you valuable in the marketplace. That is

the best return. The increased income

over the [music] remainder of your life when you properly do education

and on something that's relative in the marketplace is the best return on investment there is.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Matt in Philadelphia. Hi Matt, how are you? Good. Thanks Dave and Jade for taking my call. I got a quick question.

I'm wondering when I should hire for my business. I'm a small mechanic, work on like ATVs and motorcycles, dirt bikes, stuff like that. Um and I've been in business for about 15 years. Um kind of I feel like I've hit my max.

Like I can't seem to get out of the groove of making the same each year.

So, I don't know if I should hire or if I should be doing something else.

Are you turning away work?

No, I'm taking as much work as I can and in the past 2 years, I've actually

opened my business up to like repair for customers that you know, bring their machines and I can repair for them. I used to just buy machines that come up and resell them. And that was such a you know, so such a overhead and if they didn't sell for months, you know, it's just a lot of sitting around. Um so, I opened it up the past 2 years to work on other people's machines, charging 75 an hour. And you know, it it

trickles in and out.

You know, I always have three or four machines I'm working on for customers, but um So, if you hired someone, what would they do?

Um I would like them to do the the basic stuff like clean machines, you know, quick just go over the machine, tell me what needs to be done on it and then we can order parts or if they need to order parts. Just the the stuff that you don't Which would allow you to do more machines, but you don't have more work.

Right. Right. And so, I just I don't If you >> the past 2 years. Can you get more work?

That's what I guess I'm trying to figure out how to how to get. Yeah. Um I I opened a Facebook page and, you know, started advertising that way and just getting my my name out there, but, you know, it's just so slow. Have you uh and you're raising your prices at a at a at the correct rate over the past 15 years?

Um yes. I like I said, I've only really started work on customers' machines over the past 2 years, and I started at 55, and now I'm up to 75 an hour. Okay. I mean, really So, it's up there. You know, most most big shops are like 110 an hour, so I'm under I guess I'm under what big shops are charging, but it's just me, so. Okay.

The big shops are dealers?

Right. Right. Okay. Is there any independent non-dealer shop competing

with you?

Um there is one that's like 10 minutes from me, and his shop rate is 95, but he

turns away a lot of work.

Interesting. I wonder if he would send it to you.

I That's that That could be a question I could look into. Yeah. >> I'd just stop by and have him a cup of coffee with him and go, "I understand you're turning away work. I'll take it." Right.

So, I offer him something like a an an incentive >> Sure. I'll buy you a steak dinner every so often. >> [laughter] >> And in the meantime, I'd also be studying stupid >> 2 million dollars worth of work, I'll send you on a cruise.

There you go. But, I mean, you know, I don't know what he's I don't know what this amounts to, but yeah, but but you don't need to hire someone, and then both of you end up bored.

Right. Then you're losing money. Cuz you're paying him, but you're not making any more yourself. >> making You need to be making more money as a result of having hired the person.

And that person is either because that you're making money on the work that that person's doing or you're making money on the work that you're doing that you weren't able to do because they're doing work you used to do. Either one.

So, you know, like our guy that our CFO, our chief financial officer, does not create revenue here, but he keeps me from having to do all that so I can create revenue. And that's what you're talking about. So, you need to create but there needs to be revenue on the other side of the equation to justify hiring. And yes, right I

would work on get growing the business so that you do need the help so you can get some scale to it because today when you're a solopreneur like this, Matt, you're you're incredible.

But for 15 years you've just owned your job.

That's different than owning a business.

You know you're own your job when if you don't show up the income stops.

That's you own your job. But if you own a business, if you don't show up and the income keeps coming in.

People keep working.

So, like when I'm not here, Rachel and Jade do the show, right? And so, the revenue keeps coming in and I'm not here. So, I own a business then. But if it's just me on the radio or on the podcast and then I don't show up and there's no podcast, there's no revenue, then I just own my job.

And so, that that's different that's But the first step of business and I'll send you a copy of my latest best seller.

It's called Building a Business You Love and it's the five stages of business.

You're in the first stage of business.

You just been there a long time. 15 freaking years. So, but the first stage is the treadmill stage where we feel like we're stuck on a treadmill. We got no one to delegate to and you just run run run run run run run collapse on the couch every night.

What did you do today? I don't know, but I did a lot of it. >> [laughter] >> And I'm really tired. And so, that's treadmill stage.

And but and it's fun stage. It's an exciting stage. You do have control of your destiny. It's a nice It's a fun part of that.

And but then when you start hiring people to do work when you're not working, oh, now life starts to get good. Assuming you get the right people and you won't the first time. You'll have to fire them and get new people and but you'll finally find people that actually work and there's they're out there.

And then you'll start to grow the business. So hang on, I'll have Christian give you a copy of the book Building a Business You Love. Jason's in Toledo. Hi Jason, how are you?

Hey, good. Great to talk to you Jim and Dave. Um Hey, so I'm trying to help guide my parents on their finances and helping clean up some things. Did they ask you?

Hello? [clears throat] Did they ask you?

Uh yes, they did. How old are they? Um they are both 79. Okay. How old are you?

Uh I am 54. Okay, good. Okay, then it's

possible they'll listen. That's why I was asking. Okay, good.

>> [laughter] >> Appreciate it. >> Yeah, when you ask your questions people that don't didn't ask then sometimes, you know, don't help. But anyway, okay, so good. Cool. I see you're helping them. They're 79 years old.

Yep. There's and and should they pay off their home equity loan that they have or continue to pay that payment

it's so that they have the cash that they have in retirement. They only have about 100 grand just so that they can have that on hand for medical emergencies.

They'll probably never pay off the home equity loan before they pass but then

those, you know, that would come out of the proceeds of of their house which is >> What's the home worth?

Probably about 250. And how much is the HELOC?

Uh so there's about 50 left on it. Okay.

And that's the only debt or is there a mortgage as well?

That is the only debt. Okay. And they their only money is they have 100k.

That's correct. >> And how much do What's their income?

Uh they're they're fixed on social security about 44,000 per year. Uh and we did a very detailed budget with them came to about 40 per year in expenses. So that's close, but they think that they can maintain that long-term uh with social security, but that's that's all they got. Wow.

>> [clears throat] >> Tight. Very tight.

Um Yes. >> Yeah, I agree. I would not use the 100

and only have 50 at 80 years old to pay

off a $50,000 loan.

But I really am scared that loan is very destabilizing for the situation.

So I I I do want to come up with some thoughts on how to get rid of it anyway, but no, I would not use 50% of

the little bit that they have to clear this little bitty loan.

Um Do they have any vehicle Do they have any other assets that they could sell?

Not really of any significance, no.

There's not a lake lot.

No, unfortunately not. Okay.

Um All right. Are you the sole heir?

Uh no, I've got a couple of siblings.

Mhm.

Okay. Uh how What's the financial condition of you and your siblings?

Uh we're we're decent. I don't know that any of us are in a position to, you know, band together and and pay that off for them. Uh-huh. I would love for the each of you to throw in 17K and it to go away.

Yeah, I don't I don't think that that's probably going to be happening, unfortunately. Okay. How's their health, your parents?

Uh it's okay. They they're not like in dire health, but it's not great either.

Um Yeah. My thought behind what Dave said is you probably stand to inherit the house. So it's money that you would get back. >> Yeah, that's that's that's the reason I did it. But, if they can't come up with the cash, it doesn't matter. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like it's not like the the money's going away. It's going away for a short period of time until they pass and you sell the house.

Um Yeah, I I was sitting right where you are. If you But, if you can figure out a way to pay it off, also, I would.

I would get rid of it >> [music] >> because it's more destabilizing than your words make me think you think it is.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Well, my [music] least favorite subject.

Let me guess.

Taxes. Taxes.

Just saying the word kind of pisses me off, but yeah.

I just don't like it at all. But we're going to talk about it cuz you guys ask a lot of questions about it, especially this time of year. So, Jade, when are taxes due, someone asks, and what if I'm

late? Well, they're due on April 15th. That's the date. But you shouldn't be late because if you think you're going to be late, just file an extension.

That's what I would say. But even if you file an extension, the taxes are still due. >> got to pay them. If you don't pay them on April 15th, the penalties and interest begin.

Oh, yeah. So, filing an ex- The extension is not on payment. The extension you file is >> Paperwork. the paperwork on the actual filing of your taxes.

So, you can file an extension to file your taxes, but you should pay them anyway.

Tax deduction versus a tax credit. I

like this. So, a deduction, that's going to lower your taxable income, whereas a credit would lower the overall amount that's due. I like to think of a credit like a coupon. $30 off. Yeah. 50% off.

Yeah. And not many things are tax credits. Most things are tax deductions.

>> That's right. So, a tax deduction is $10,000 deduction means you reduce the

income that is taxable by $10,000.

And so, if you're in a 25% tax bracket, that then would save you $2,500 on your

taxes cuz you don't pay taxes on $10,000

worth of income at 25%. So, that's a tax deduction, and that's 99% of the time what we're talking about around here. Occasionally, there's something that gives you an actual tax credit, which is dollar for dollar. $10,000 tax credit

reduces your tax bill. That's great.

>> by $10,000. That is 75% better than a

deduction, [laughter] okay? And but yeah, not many of them out there, but there's a few things that you get tax credits for. Okay, this one blows people away. The number of people that don't understand this is like everybody. How do the tax brackets work? Yeah, so the tax brackets, they're a progressive system. So, there is a range of income that is taxed at a certain amount. Your entire income is not taxed at the same

amount. A higher bracket never means that you're going to pay that tax percentage on your entire income. So, if you've never done it, go through and you can Google the tax brackets for the tax

year, and you can see how it's broken down. Everyone pays the same amount of taxes on the first 25,000.

On everyone pays the same amount of taxes on the first 50,000.

Even if you make 2 million, the first 50,000 is taxed exactly the same. Mhm. And so, then as so as you go through the bracket, when you jump a bracket, it does not jump your entire income by that percentage amount. Only

the amount above that last bracket.

>> Mhm. Okay? And so, it might be that you have $5,000 above a bracket.

>> And so, it's hardly anything. So, that's so good cuz a lot of people are like, "I don't want to make more. I don't want to be in that bracket." That's crazy talk, you know? Well, there's not a 100% bracket yet. >> Right. So, of course you want to make more because you get to keep it. There's not even a There's not a I mean, I think the max is what, 30-something percent? So, you get You still get to keep 70 cents on every dollar, no matter what you make. So, go make more. Shut up.

Yeah. So, how much to set aside if you're self-employed? All right, you always want to take 25 to 30% set that aside for income taxes um and just know that you'll likely need to make pay quarterly taxes. I like to do a quarterly estimate set that aside that way Uncle Sam has his cut. Yeah, the quarterly estimate is a one-page document. How much were the revenues for my business?

How much minus the expenses for my business equals the profit for my business times tax bracket.

And you have to pay that once a quarter if you're self-employed. Yep. If you don't, you're going to get penalties and interest on that after the first year.

First year they give you a pass, which also leads people into doing stupid stuff like not paying their taxes so but you need to do your quarterly estimates and it's really not rocket surgery to figure this out. It's not that hard.

So, you just sit down and go, "Okay, the business made a hundred thousand dollars

and we spent ninety thousand dollars so our taxable income is ten thousand dollars on the profit and we're in a 25% bracket so I'm going to set aside twenty-five hundred dollars and I'm going to send that in to the uh you know, in in with my quarterly estimates and then that's has the same effect at the end of the year as those of you that have a W-2 job where you're withholding automatically out of your check. The only difference is you actually have to send the money in which pisses you off more. >> [laughter] >> And so you cuz you actually know that you're paying taxes.

When you have it withheld from your check, it's out of sight, out of mind, you don't think about it.

And so if you pull five thousand dollars out, you should set aside twelve hundred fifty bucks. And and you know, only pull thirty-seven hundred fifty into your checking account and set aside 1250 so that when you're ready to do your quarterly estimates, you're ready to do your quarterly estimates. Standard deduction versus itemizing. All right.

So, that's usually people's question, which should I do? And the answer is whatever is going to lower your taxable income more. For most of us, the standard deduction is where we're going to sit if you're just normal W-2, not much going on but the rent. I mean, if you're a married filing joint, that's $31,500 that they're deducting.

And so, that's where most people sit. Now, if you own your own business and there's a lot going on and maybe you're working with a tax professional, they might say that itemizing is the way, but most people are going to fall in that standard deduction because it's easier, often higher.

>> Yeah, exactly. And because you need, you know, that 31.5 if married filing jointly. If you don't have that much in write-offs for whatever reason, then you're better off. And here's how silly it is now. With this huge amount of standard deduction now, this 31.5 way high, it's now 91% of Americans do

standard deduction.

Now, if you do standard deduction, you are not writing off charitable giving.

You are not writing off interest on your home mortgage. That's right. Because you're taking a standard deduction and you're not itemizing. You only write those things off if you're itemizing.

And so, you say, "I'm keeping my home mortgage because I get a tax break." There you go, Dave. You lied. [laughter] You lied to yourself. You didn't get a tax break cuz 91% of you So good. did

the standard deduction. Life changes that affect taxes. >> Yeah, so like I was saying before, most of us can maybe file our own taxes if we're doing, you know, normal W-2. But if you've had a major change, maybe you got married, you had kids, you got a new job, you bought a home, maybe you entered retirement, all of those things definitely can affect your taxes.

And after major life changes just go ahead and review adjust your withholding decide if it's now good to work with a tax professional versus filing them yourself. Yeah, and that ends up you know, why your refund changes is those things is stuff like having a kid, buying a house, starting a business, some stuff like that or those are pretty big old divorces, deaths, all those things like that. Anything that's going to cause your refund to change. Now, if you're constantly getting a refund you need to remember Santa Claus does not live in Washington D.C.

>> That's not the Disney fund? >> That's not the Disney fund. Walt Disney doesn't live there either.

No one charitable lives in Washington D.C. >> [laughter] >> Everyone in Washington D.C. wants your money. They're parasites. They're a tick on the butt of America.

They're parasites. They're sucking the blood out of you. And so do not think you are getting a blessing from Washington D.C. If you got a refund, honey, it's cuz you had too much of your money taken out of your check and then they send you your money back at the end of the year with no interest on your money. That's what a blessing D.C. is.

That's what a blessing the IRS is. So you get $3,000 back. All that is is $3,000 of your freaking money because you had $250 a month too much taken out of your check. Change your W-4.

Stop having refunds.

No more refunds.

And it's so easy to do. >> Correctly calculate your withholding.

Oh, I use the IRS tables. Wait a minute, you just assumed the IRS was competent?

Well, that was a dumb thing to do. It's like [music] saying the DMV is competent. No. No, you run your taxes

out. You figure out what your withholding should be and get the proper amount withheld. >> A way to [music] do that is look at your last your last tax refund, divide it by 12, go on your W-4. There's literally a line on there that you can decide [music] what your withholding is. Change it.

Well, we wish we could get to every call around here, but we can't. If you got a money question and you want it answered the way we would answer it, go to our website at ramseysolutions.com

and use the Ask Ramsey tool. Ask Ramsey

is our free AI tool that's built and trained only on Ramsey.

So, here's the way AI works. AI is pretty simple. It's going to regurgitate, spit out only the data that you put into it.

Whatever data set you put into it is how it's going to make the answer.

So, if you're so stupid that you're Google and you put Reddit in the data set, then you're going to get stupid butt answers like Google's giving you out of Reddit. But, if you only put Ramsey, like 3 years of this show, all the transcripts into the AI tool, all of Financial Peace University, all the books that we've written, all the articles that are on our website, that we the way we believe, the way we teach you, into the tool, then guess what?

That's the only data set it's got to work from, so it will answer the question exactly better than we would answer it here on the air >> [laughter] >> because it's the culmination of all that data. And so, and it's free. And it's blowing up, y'all. People are hitting it like bing bing bing bing bing bing bing.

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Paul's in Tampa.

Hi sir. Thank you Jade and Dave. You're a blessing to our nation. Really appreciate so much. >> Thank you. I have you thank [clears throat] you. I have a question.

I see two couple principles that you've talked about are in opposition in my life.

I'm nearing retirement. I have the money to buy a boat in cash.

We live near the water.

It is going to be more than half of our

annual income in boats, motors, wheels, etc. which you say not to do. On the other hand, we have the money in cash and if we were to burn in the middle of our living room, it wouldn't be the end of our world. So, how do >> What's your net worth? What's your net worth? What's your net worth?

Uh about 4 million. And what's what Wait a minute. And So, are you counting the income that that 4 million would be creating?

Or just your little You're just counting your >> 401k and real estate. And the the boat money is separate. No, that's not what I meant. >> He's cash. He's saying to make the rule work. >> I Number one, you're right. When you're in a no income, low income portion of retirement and a huge net worth, that rule does not apply.

>> [snorts] >> The half of your income in boats and motors and or motors and wheels, that does not the rule does not apply. So, if you're worth 10 million dollars and all of your investment income is rolled back into your investments and you don't count that income in the equation and so you're you know, you're living on a $70,000 pension or something, but you're worth 10 million dollars, then we don't apply that formula, okay?

But if you take all of your net worth and use the income off of your net worth, you probably would the formula would probably work. But we don't have to do that. How much is the boat?

About 400,000. Okay, and you have $4 million. So, it's 10% of your net worth.

Correct. >> And what is your income? How old are you?

Uh 60. 60?

And you're retired?

60. 60. Oh, 60.

Okay, and what is your What is your income?

Right now, it's about 250.

Okay. Yes, I would buy that boat.

Okay. But, that's based on the ratio into your net worth and based on the fact that you're um

and again, if your net worth was 40 million and you made 250,

you know, you still could not buy the boat if we only use the 50% of your income. But, most people we're not dealing with a net worth as substantial when we apply that formula. So, um yeah, I would buy this boat, for sure. It's a sweet boat. What is it?

It is a trawler, a 40-ft trawler. Ah,

triple engines or quadruple?

Double engines. >> Double. What What horsepower? Yeah.

They're slow with the trawler. It doesn't go very fast. >> Oh, okay. All right.

And uh what brand?

It's a Grand Harbor. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, and you're you're what on the Intracoastal Waterway?

Uh we have access, yes. Okay. All right.

Wow. Yeah. Good for you.

Yeah, I mean, you're in a position to do that because Yeah. Yeah, you you that The bottom line is that the the the reason that the decision makes sense is the other rule that you used is if I burn that much money in the middle of the floor, would my life change? And the answer is no.

And and that's because your net worth so high, not because your income ratios are correct on this.

And so, that that's if we were doing it off your income, you know, we'd be going okay, $100,000 if you burn that. But but I if I'm in your shoes, I'm buying that.

I I I would buy that boat. Yeah.

That's That's what I would do. If you want a boat, I mean, that's a it's a lot of money in a boat, but um but it's a small percentage of your net worth is

tied up in and and trawlers go down in value, too.

Just like cars, just like I mean, 100% of boats go down in value. What's maintenance on a boat like that a year?

You know? No, I don't. But it's it's it's the docking fees and the insurance and the gas and or the fuel, probably maybe diesel. But um I don't know. Uh it's Something to I'm sure he's considered that.

>> pretty substantial, but it's not hundreds of thousands on that.

Cuz you don't need a crew and all that on that thing. So he's the crew. 38 ft long. I mean, it's not So uh yeah, but that's um yeah, when you get into the thing where like uh Zuckerberg's yacht pulled up the other day. Yeah, Rachel was putting that up on her Instagram, right? You know, that sucker's got like 59 people or something on it. Yeah, just the uh the the daily

rate to keep that thing running is a small city. That's right. Yeah. But that's a different world. And but again, as a percentage of his net worth Yeah.

It's nothing. >> Nothing. He's one of the wealthiest guys in the world, you know. So it's a 300-ft yacht that's probably worth I don't know, a billion or half a billion, something like that, maybe.

And >> for him, though. And yeah, but but it's again, it's he's got hundreds of billions. Yeah. And this is a half of one of them. You know, I mean, so it's it's hard to get your head around when you're like regular people, but it's if you it helps you if you just go it's um ratios. Look at the ratios.

>> What ratio is this? What percentage of this? And it keeps you from saying stup- stupid stuff. Here's what stupid people say that are envious.

And I actually have said it, but I haven't said it in 35 years. Yeah. About 35 years ago I quit being that stupid.

No one should ever

dot dot dot dot dot. That's redneck envy. Okay? That's trashy.

No one should ever have a car that nice.

There's starving children somewhere.

Like your car caused children to starve.

Would you shut up?

>> [sighs] >> Unbelievable. Of course you should get that car. Yeah. You live like no one else later you can live and give to the starving children like no one else. But this Oh, these over saved people that

think they're Jesus that are going to tell you that the the only car you can drive and still be holy is a '93 Camry.

And that's the that's the car of the evangelical. Anything [laughter] beyond that any car beyond that is not holy and

you're you're overspending and you're not a good steward. Oh, bull crap.

It's actually not a Camry. It's an Accord cuz Jesus said it. They're all in one accord. Dad joke, okay. Anyway.

Uh, all right. >> to let that slide, Dad. Just keep that one going. Just keep [laughter] on moving past that. All right. But yeah, but the seriously, I mean, the judgment of other people's decisions. Yeah. It's it's just >> please manage your life? It's like a full-time job to manage you.

It's like, you know, the the person in your mirror is a problem child. Work on that one. Instead of working on fixing everybody else's spirituality.

Geez, some of you people.

So, yeah. That that's that's the problem with stuff like this.

So, >> a very small percentage of people >> out there and I see Zuckerberg's yacht, I go not a big Facebook guy, but man, he killed it. Good for him. >> Well, I mean, how mad can you really get because here how mad can you really get?

You're probably on Medicaid somewhere.

Uh, you're probably on paid for a few days of that thing to operate. >> Yes, that's what I'm saying. >> With the Facebook ads that Ramsey buys.

So, it's probably my fault. But, yeah.

But, um, money well spent, Mark. You know, it's like you're living life large. >> [laughter] >> And so, but yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. I'm I'm Yeah. I I honestly, I've never had, you know, 300

billion. So, my mind [music] can't get my emotions can't get my head around that. But, it is throwaway money for him.

And that's what we keep talking about here. >> Yep. You know, work hard so you when you're

old, you don't have to work in McDonald's.

You're not a Walmart [music] greeter.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Kelsey uh is in Seattle,

Washington. Hi, Kelsey. How are you?

I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I have a question for you, of

course.

And I guess I'll just flat out say it. I

feel like I either was or am being

financially abused, and I can't really

tell.

I'm very confused. Um, we have a very

complex financial situation.

Um, so, where would you like me to begin?

Uh, how old are you?

I'm 37. And how long have you been married?

Seven years. Okay. And uh, what's your household income?

Um, I'm not really sure because >> what is complex about your financial situation?

So, we have a lot of debt and but I guess we do have

a lot of equity. Um, we have um, numerous businesses and we just have

money coming in and out and I'm just

living on one credit card that is constantly maxed out and I never have access to cash.

Um, Why don't you have access to cash?

Um, I'm not sure. I have asked to be put

on the account. Um, my name isn't on anything and I have been asking and he seemed willing but we

were waiting. Um, because I never got my name changed cuz we got married during COVID.

Okay. >> Uh, and so I did get my name changed finally, my last name and then um,

so he was telling me that he was waiting for that but now that's changed, you know, my name's still not on anything, none of the properties, none of the accounts. Um, so he just he tells me that the

financial situation is so complex that I

just wouldn't understand it which frustrates me because I'm very organized and I have always paid bills on time.

Um, Do you have children together?

Yes. Um, we have a blended family of

five. Um, we have

two 18-year-olds, uh, 16-year-old and then together we have a four-year-old and a five-year-old. Do you work outside the home?

Um no, and I have been

>> Yes, before we got married and I have been >> Um it depends. Um I used to make I would

just say on average I used to make like 5 or 6,000, but then there was a time where I switched jobs, so I was making significantly less.

Um What what did you do for a living?

So I was a nursing assistant. Okay, so

how does it feel when someone says you're too dumb to understand this?

Um it's really frustrating cuz I know cuz I have been homeschooling our kids as well since we got married.

Um so I mean I'm really organized. You have to stay organized to have this many kids and home school. >> Frustrated Frustrated is a word that describes when you're trying to do a task and you can't get traction on the task.

Yeah. >> know that that's the right word to describe what Dave asked.

Yeah, when when someone says you're too dumb to understand that's demeaning.

Yeah, um so I can't think in 43 years I've ever told my wife she was dumb. I think that would make me dumb. I think that would make me pretty dumb. dumb. I think he just thought it was very complex.

>> Oh, it's too complex for you to understand, darling, but I and I got [laughter] it because I'm the smart one.

He's an arrogant butt hole.

So we have about 4.3 million in equity. How

do you know?

Also, last year I really started pressing I wanted to have transparency

and clarity on our financial situation and I slowly have been asking questions and putting stuff together.

Um >> So that Let go back there. When you say slowly, is the purpose of the slowly for

your own understanding? I'm just building this mentally piece by piece, so I'm understanding it. Or is the purpose or is the purpose of the slowly I can only ask him so many things at once before he shuts me down, so I'm just going to do a little bit here, then wait 5 months and do a little bit here. Tell me the purpose of that or is it a little of both?

Um, I think it's a little bit of both.

Um, if I did sit down and ask a list of questions, I'm sure he would tell me.

Okay, did you get a pre-nup? Did you sign a pre-nup?

No, I didn't. >> Okay. You got to decide how much of this you're willing to put up with. You've already put up with way more of it than you should have, I think.

So, if it was at my house, this would be

over today.

We're going to sit down and go bye-bye.

You got 24 hours to put everything out on the table and I'm going to understand every bit of it and it's your job to make me understand it and I'm going to have access to all the accounts in the next 24 hours or I'm going to go see a divorce lawyer and I'm going to have a $2 million net worth cuz I'm taking half of this crap. >> have $2.9 million in debts and loans. I thought you said you had equities of $4 million.

Even still >> what equity is?

I guess I didn't I just figured that I would subtract the loan amount and the debt No, the amount of the value minus the loans is the equity.

But honestly, that's a little bit beside the point. The beside the point the biggest point is I'm taking half of it.

>> you're not being treated fairly. >> a divorce cuz I'm tired of you screwing me over and treating me this way. >> Well, also I think the biggest dynamic is I had come to realize that he's not keen or my needs, but

So, he has a daughter from a previous

marriage that he adopted or actually it wasn't a marriage, it was an engagement.

>> to do with this. >> And No, it is. >> No, it's not.

Cuz you got you need to know everything that's going on in the next 48 hours.

That he's been giving um That's fine.

Her large amounts of money on the side that I was discovering >> That's That's There's a lot of He's been doing a lot of a lot of crap. And you're going to find out more. >> not going to put up with anymore.

Starting today. But I did confront him about it. >> Oh, you're ridiculous. No wonder you have this problem.

You can't stay on task. I'm trying to give you a simple thing. The simple thing is the overall way you're being treated needs to stop immediately. And then you go down these different rabbit holes 14 times.

I can't even have a conversation with you. No wonder. The first question you asked is, I don't know if I'm being financially abused. >> The answer is yes.

>> that out? Yes. >> The answer is yes. And yes, you should do something about it.

And and not one off every little stupid thing you're talking about here. It's the overall thing.

Or I'm going to see a divorce attorney. Yeah, and here is Kelsey, we're on your side. We're trying to be on your side because we agree that the behavior you're talking about >> chasing its tail, girl. >> Yeah, you're worth more than that.

>> with this. You can't even have a discussion about it. I think you've been living in this toxic mess so long you're that that you're you know, you're you're clouded on everything's just circ- circular. No, it needs to be very clean

and crisp and either we get this healed

or we end this. You decide. That's what

I would do if I were in your shoes.

>> [music]

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We use a couple of terms around here

that sometimes are confusing, so let me clarify them.

We use the term financial infidelity,

which is when someone lies to their spouse and hides financial things like debt.

And so it's a breach of trust like sexual infidelity

is. But the fact that we call it financial infidelity does not really put it in the same category as sexual infidelity.

Sexual infidelity is much more traumatic.

Both are a breach of trust. One is a less traumatic breach of trust, but we use the term to describe the fact that it's a breach of trust. Another term that we use around here is financial abuse.

Probably not accurate a lot.

Okay? Abuse

is like domestic violence when someone's beating the crap out of their spouse. That's real abuse.

Okay? So, financial abuse where you

don't have access to the numbers is not

as traumatic as actual abuse.

And so, when we use the term financial abuse, it's not real abuse.

It's a It's a descriptive term to say,

you know, you're in in a situation where you're not being treated right.

That's different than abuse.

But in our culture today overall, we have taken some of these words and we've used them so flippantly that we forgot what they actually mean. And so, anytime I disagree with someone, I call them a narcissist.

Well, you need to actually understand what a narcissist is before you say that. Because just because someone hurts your feelings doesn't mean they're a narcissist.

And just because you we use the word abuse doesn't mean to to that it's descriptive of what is going on at the trauma level.

Okay, yes, it's a toxic and horrible marriage, a bad relationship. That's way different than real abuse.

So, we're guilty of participating in overstating, overdramatizing some of these things like financial infidelity or financial abuse as if it was as bad as infidelity or real abuse.

It's not.

Okay, so when you call us up and say, "Am I being financially abused?" It's way different than if you call us up and say, "My husband's hitting me."

Totally different reaction here because different parts of the way you deal with trauma in those situations is completely

different. From a psychological viewpoint, from Dr. Delony's insight and input on this, way different. So, if you

call me up and say I'm in an abusive physically abusive relationship,

I am not going to shame you.

I'm going to walk you out of that and get you some help immediately.

Because shame is one of the tools that's used by physical abusers.

But if you call me up and say, "Am I being financially abused?" And then you give me 16 different stories, I'm going to call you out on your inconsistency.

And that's not me abusing someone that's being abused. Cuz they're not actually being abused, they just don't have insight into the money and don't know what's going on with the money. So, it's not actual freaking abuse.

But it is a toxic, horrible marriage.

And yes, she does need to stand up and put an end to the bullcrap.

But that's just basic relational advice,

not someone that is actually being abused. Now, if she's actually being abused, she's going to get a different reaction from us on this show.

And so, if you don't like how I handled the last caller, kiss my butt and go listen to a different show.

Okay? Cuz that's the way we do it here.

We love people. We love people well, and we tell them the truth.

So, that's how that goes down. All right, Duke is in San Francisco. Hi Duke, what's up?

Hi Dave. Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Yes, so about 3 weeks ago, I got caught up in all the tech layoffs and I lost my job. And um I have enough cash to pay off my mortgage, which I was planning to do in November anyway, but now I'm wondering if I should just hold on to that cash.

Yes, for now. How much were you making, hon?

Um See, last year was uh 600,000.

Wow. >> Wow. What do you do in the tech world?

Um I'm a web engineer, mostly focused on digital accessibility, which is making sure software works for people with disabilities. Yeah. A big deal.

That's a big field. Okay. So, what do you have planned? >> Well, what what's what's the outlook for the new position?

Well, uh it's kind of a rough job market for what I do right now, so I don't know how long it would take, but I'm also contemplating on stepping out on faith and starting my own business. Mhm. Doing what?

Um, same work, consulting.

Mhm. I wouldn't step out on faith, I'd step out on facts.

Um Okay. But, um I mean, you know how to do what you're doing. Do you think there's a market for it that you could build up enough consulting gigs to make what anywhere near what you used to make?

Uh it'll probably take me a while to get up to that amount, but um yeah, there's there's more than enough work, I think.

Okay. And do you plan to live in San Francisco?

Um I don't think I'll be able to stay here too much longer. Okay. Then why would you pay off the house? Is the house house up for sale?

Well, that's certainly an option that I hadn't thought about. >> If you're leaving, you don't need to keep it.

Yeah.

And then that changes the whole formula, right? Because you may be buying a property that's twice the size and half the price in a different market.

More affordable market. >> Yeah.

You're in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world. You know that, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And so, if you're going to I I don't know where is best for you to operate this consulting firm from. I was going to say, what's your timeline for making that choice on whether or not you're going to step out and do your own thing versus continue to search the job market?

I'd give myself probably about 2 months Okay. before I need to start looking again. Yeah. Uh you need to start looking now.

What are you going to do? Sit on your butt until then? What do you mean?

Uh no, I I I needed to take a break.

Okay. So, how much money are you sitting on? right now? >> a break. They just gave you one, but while you're on break, look for a job, honey. I mean, for real. Anyway, that's what I would do. Yeah, set yourself a timeline and what I would do is nothing with the money to answer your question.

And and say, "Okay, for the next 2 months I'm going to look for a job. If I don't land something, I'm going to launch the consulting firm and we're going to move from San Francisco to fill in the blank of the name of the city, and that means the house goes up for sale that day.

Uh but in the meantime, yeah, you're you're you might land something there and stay in Silicon Valley, right? Yeah, you could do that or I My whole thing, if I were in your shoes, I would set a timeline.

Um that's what I would do. It sounds like you have plenty of money laying around to kind of um take a little bit of time on this, but I wouldn't get reckless.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Good good good question, dude. Um I'm sorry you lost the great job. I'm really glad that you had a great job like that and so you know what it feels like to make 600 a year. That's pretty incredible. And I'm really glad that you'll know what that feels like again someday either as owning your own thing or staying there and um just working for a different shop now and so forth. But yeah, wow. Wow.

And um It's pretty incredible that uh Well, that that's that's awesome. So, yeah, you you got The good news is you got options because you've done a good job of putting things in place to do that. >> like a single guy, too. He didn't sound like there was anybody else's The the the words he was using didn't sound like yeah, so Um >> [snorts] >> but yeah, he's been working all time.

Exactly. [laughter] He sounds like he's working day and night. >> 24/7. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden it came to a screeching halt.

>> Wow. Yeah. So, that that's the thing.

Yeah. So, when you're in the middle of a storm, yeah, wait till the storm passes to do permanent planning. I think so, yeah.

>> In the middle of the storm, you do temporary things, which is like he said, hold on to the cash. We're not going to pay off the house cuz we may not be staying in it. >> to happen. That's right.

>> staying in the house. Might might be staying in it. Once the decision is made that we're staying here, then I would pay it off. Yes, I would, too.

Quickly. Yeah.

Okay, either one of those is fine. Yeah.

Very cool thing to pay off the house in San Francisco.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi. Defaulted private [music] student loans don't define you, but dealing with them does.

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That's the letter Y R E F Y {dot} com {slash} Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Alex in Florida. They say my recurring bills are paid for on my credit card, which I also use to buy things throughout the month. I pay the balance in full before the date is due.

I'm retired, in my 50s, with a net worth of 1 million, and I have no debt. I drive a 15-year-old Nissan. My question is, if my goal is simplicity and convenience, what's wrong with using my credit card for monthly spending and recurring bills? The balance usually runs between 1,500 and 2,000. Nothing crazy, because I live very frugally.

Okay, so if I look at this question, my thought is you're probably doing it for the points. That's my You didn't say why, other than simplicity, but there's got to be something linked to that. And so I would say, if if there's a points argument here, I mean, if you just did the math, it's really minuscule. I mean, we're talking about $1,500 per month if you look at points.

Maybe that's 300 bucks a year.

You know, 300 $30 per month. So there's

really no financial gain there. Is That would be my first thought towards that, but I think what's really going on

is and I'm saying this out of love, >> [laughter] >> but they won. Like, they got you,

because that whole industry, what they want to do is move your mindset from being independent to dependent. And they

got you because you've decided that in

your mind that equals getting ahead.

My goal is simplicity and convenience when in reality I use a debit card for my recurring and I use debit card for purchases and that is more convenient and more simple.

That's why Yeah. >> Cuz I don't have to pay a bill at the end of the month. Yeah, if you think that equals simplicity, they got you.

Even if you're paying it off in the at the end of the month and not in debt, it's you know, if you're paying it off in full, you're still it's still not the simplest way. Well, and >> way is a debit card. >> Yeah, we The studies show that if you use a credit card, you will over time

spend 10% 30% in some cases, depending on what it is that you're purchasing, up to 100% more using a credit card. Things like fast food, things like entertainment, you are up in that high percentage of how much

more you'll spend. >> Yeah, and I I don't think this guy's going to be in that super high percentage cuz he's a frugal guy.

>> he's like 10 to 15%.

>> you're just doing your normal purchases, you're going to spend a little more. But the big thing is you're paying it off at the end of the month anyway. So, what's the difference in a debit card? Oh, one extra step. It's not as simple.

>> That's why I said it's a mindset thing.

In his mind >> got you is right. They they talked you into believing this was smart somehow.

And then you defend it with all of your numbers, but you're you're Yeah, I don't think I'm going to talk you out of I don't think I'll be able to talk you out of it cuz I think they got you. Yeah, I think I think they got you. But yeah, your argument is invalid.

It is not simpler or more convenient [laughter] than using a debit card. >> Nothing is easier than I get my paycheck and I take my paycheck to pay for my things. Yeah, well, I use my debit card.

I mean, like a lot of my utilities on stuff on odds and ends like personal stuff like utilities automatically hit the debit card or some of the odds and ends and I don't have to do anything.

Yeah. >> He hits his credit card and he has to pay the bill off at the end of the month. >> Yeah. I don't have to I don't have that extra step.

>> Mhm. So, it's not simpler or more convenient. >> And and I I I I want to say this because I think that this is a very subtle thing that's worth saying. This guy, do I think this guy's going to end up in debt?

No. Is he going to get end up on the side of the road? No. I'm not being a fatalist in any way.

He's going to go about his life. He's going to be fine. He's going to retire. No no problem.

>> Mhm. The borrower is slave to the lender. So, at the end of the day, I want to be able to have as much freedom and autonomy in my life to know, "Hey, I I actually went out in the world. I made a living. I didn't have to depend on a system of debt to keep me afloat or make me feel like I was something." Mhm.

That's all it is. And but that's a big thing. Agreed. Margie's in Dallas. Hey, Margie, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help? >> [clears throat] >> I've had a lifetime of bad decisions and have stuck myself into a hole in debt.

Mhm. And um I'm debating whether to file

bankruptcy, to try to settle some things out of pocket myself when my house sells. I'm going through a divorce and I know I'm getting 50% equity. Wow. Um and I just don't want to continue making bad choices. So, I just kind of need some guidance as to what route I should take and where I should prioritize. How long you married?

Uh 30 years. Oh, baby. That's tough.

Wow.

I'm sorry. Uh a lot going on with you.

Um a lot of pain.

Uh how much of debt do you have, Margie?

Um total for myself, not include My

husband and I have always kept our finances separate. >> Mhm. So, just um my debt including the

mortgage cuz my name is on the mortgage.

>> debt not counting the mortgage. What do you have? Okay. Um well, it's 609 total

minus 343 for the mortgage, so whatever that leaves. I've got 108 in unsecured credit cards.

I have 137,000 in student loans.

And I know bankruptcy won't erase the student loans, so I'm stuck with that and and I'm good with that. [clears throat] I got my I got I got that. I'm going to pay that. I'm sorry.

Yeah, that's that's a lot. And what do you make? Um 87,000.

>> Mhm. Okay. And how much equity will you get from the sale of the home?

Um so the house would probably sell for

440 to 480. We owe 343, and so my half

I'm thinking after closing would probably be about 50K.

Okay.

Um well, bankruptcy's not going to work for you

because when you go to file, there's two types of consumer bankruptcy. There's Chapter 7 and Chapter 13.

Chapter 7 is the clean slate where the student loans are

not bankruptable, but the credit cards get zero.

Um and in order to file a Chapter 7, you

have to have passed what they call a means test, meaning they look at your income and any assets that you have. And

when they see that you have $50,000 and make $87,000 a year, you're not going to pass the means test, so you're going to be forced into a payment plan in Chapter

13, which is 5 years, 60 months of

paying payments on the credit cards. You can put the student loans in there, too, but they get paid in full. The credit cards can be paid all or portion of in a Chapter 13. In your case, they're going to get most of it anyway. So, are you delinquent on the 108 on credit cards?

Yeah, I stopped payments in January.

Um Okay. That was part of, you know, of being able to afford an attorney. Yeah.

Um Yeah. for the divorce.

>> Okay. And so honestly my my thought process where I where I wanted to do is wait for the sale of the house and then just start calling creditors and saying like hey >> I think you can I think you can probably settle the credit cards for the 50.

Okay. >> Or something like that, okay? If you if you if they went seriously delinquent, they're not seriously delinquent yet. Um but and it [clears throat] it'll be a long it'll be a you know, a year and a half while your heart is broken over a 30-year marriage ending and you're fresh

trying to get a fresh start. You're going to have a lot of work to do here.

Um I've got another idea. The the guardian litigation people that we work with this

is what they do. They negotiate with them. Um when you're when you're in default um

and uh they're very very good at it. I just had lunch with the CEO the other day and was listening to their whole process. Um and I think they can take

care of you and we'll help them do that because you are in a pinch.

All right, and so we're going to we'll hook you up. Christian is going to get in touch with them and hand hold your hand and walk you right into them and I think they can walk you through this because you're not going to qualify for a chapter 7. It's going to put you into a 13 and so some kind of a payment plan

or settlement process is going to be better for you outside of bankruptcy.

It's going to be more efficient. And it doesn't require all of your emotions

to deal with the anger and the crap that the collectors are going to throw at you if you do it yourself and if I'm in your shoes, I don't need that right now cuz your heart's already breaking.

So hang on and we'll help you with this, hon.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

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You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture today, Proverbs 21:21, "Whoever pursues righteousness and kindness finds life, prosperity, and honor." Warren Buffett, "You only have to do a very few things right in your life so long as you don't do too many things wrong." Guys, Ramsey is taking over an entire cruise ship. That's right, one of the top lines, Holland America, fancy pantsy

cruise line, not the cheap ones. This 20 This is a 2,500 people coming together

for the ultimate debt-free celebration.

If you're on baby step four and beyond, you're out of debt except the house and you're working on getting a you're working on getting your emergency I mean your past your emergency fund, working on getting your retirement built, getting the house paid off, all that or even beyond anywhere, this is for you.

We're not asking you to spend money while you're on baby step two and go on vacation with us, but we but let me tell you we'd love to have you on this. All the Ramsey personalities are going to be on there for seven days including me. My wife Sharon will be with us the entire time. We're going to have new wealth-building teachings. We're going to join the world's largest debt-free scream. We're going to watch live episodes of your favorite Ramsey shows be taped right there and so much more.

So, you get all kinds of opportunities to deal with every one of us. We're going to be all over the place. We did this last year. It's going to be one one year from right now. Be in March of 2027.

It is well it's not sold out, but it's getting close already. So, if you want to go click the link in the show notes or go to ramsolutions.com/events to book your cabin. Laurie is with us in

Salt Lake City. Hey, Laurie, what's up?

Not much, Steve. I I'm so excited.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? >> Um So, here's my question. I think we went to stupid university and made a mistake and I'm wondering what you would do in our case. Wow. What happened?

>> about a year ago and when we bought it,

we understood it was seller financed.

But the day we went to sign the papers, like we didn't hire a lawyer in advance.

That was probably our biggest mistake.

When we got there, it turned out it was more of like a seller kickback. Like they didn't give it to us with their money. They are using the loan they previously have.

I did not realize that was like weird.

So, would you be concerned if you were me? Like would you go refinance >> I don't understand. What do you mean they're using the loan they previously had? What do you mean? They didn't pay off the home with the money that we gave

them to Okay, so we paid like a $1 million home. We paid 750, but still owed that extra like 300-ish.

And they just kept the loan they previously had. So, they're not financing it out of their money. What is What is the balance on that loan?

So, the balance on their loan is 320, and we owe them 380. So, we borrowed $60,000 from them.

And then the like overall balance is 320 on the house. Has the house been put into your name?

Yeah, we have the title. I So, that's where I I thought we were all above board, but then I looked at it today online and it said it was a seller take-back loan, and I was like I've never even heard of that before today. I didn't know that was a thing. >> some some So, I made up on TikTok. I've been doing real estate 40 years. I've never heard that phrase.

So, um seller take-back. What this is is an illegal loan, though, because the when the mortgage company finds out

and they will, when they discover, for instance, that the homeowner's insurance that has to be reported to the mortgage company is not in the seller's name, it's in your name.

Well, and it's in their name still. So, if anything goes wrong >> be? The deed is in your Did you put the house in your name or not? Yeah, the house is in our name. >> Then they cannot have insurance on your house. I can't buy insurance on your house. It's not possible.

Great. So, would you refinance like now?

Yes. All right. Well, okay. Okay. Cuz here's what's going to happen. If that is a standard mortgage that's laying on the house, in paragraph 17 on that mortgage, it has what's called a due on sale clause.

Mhm. Due on sale means if that seller sells the house that mortgage becomes due in full.

And that seller has sold the house.

And when they discover it, they're going to call that loan.

And they're going to demand that seller give them $320,000 in 30 days. And if

they don't, they're going to foreclose on the house that you thought was yours.

Right. But it's not got but you have recorded a warranty deed into your name. Is that right? At the courthouse. >> Yes. Yes, and that's where I thought we were legal cuz how would we know that it was >> You are legal. You're just vulnerable because the seller is either a shyster or a or both.

Okay? [laughter] >> Okay. Because they don't understand that you cannot keep a loan in place with a

due on sale clause in it.

And all all current modern mortgages

have a due on sale clause in them. If you got an FHA loan from 1972,

it does not have a due on sale clause on it. But they don't exist anymore cuz they've all been paid off.

That was 50 years ago.

So, the but but you know, so back in the day when I first started in real estate in the late '70s and early '80s, we had all kinds of FHA's laying around that you could assume without a due on sale. But those are have been gone for 50 freaking years, okay? So, anyway, that that this thing if you pulled up their mortgage deed,

okay, the the the trust deed in most states it would be. You can if it's a Fannie Mae, a standard conventional loan, you just flip it over do you see paragraph 17? It will say due on sale.

If the title is transferred, the the the it becomes a balloon note and they call the it's in default, they call the whole loan and the seller does not have the ability to pay that loan off.

And so, they're going to get foreclosed on and because the lien is still on your

property, you're going to end up losing the property.

Uh So, you need to get this refinanced and get these shysters or morons or whatever they are out of your life as fast as you can. And you need a standard $380,000 mortgage and pay them off as or $400,000 mortgage or whatever you got to go get to get them paid off as fast as you possibly can. How long have you had the property in your name?

A year. Good, cuz it's going to take 12 months before they'll look at appraised

appraisal versus acquisition.

Okay? And so now they can look at appraisal. And I assume the house is worth more than when you bought it.

Probably, yeah. >> Yeah. So, uh you guys have any money? You obviously put down everything you had, right? We did, but like over this last year we've saved up a hundred grand. So, I was just thinking we'd put some of that towards >> would yeah. And if you can get a if you can just get like your credit union to give you $300,000 mortgage.

Oh. That's correct. You know, just easy, just something quick, right? Or call Churchill Mortgage. And they can help you walk through it. But yeah, I would get this out of these people's names as fast as you possibly can. And for God's sake, get the homeowner's insurance in your name.

You have $700,000 of equity. If this thing burns down, that's going to go to them.

Oh, wow. That would be awful. Yeah.

Yeah, cuz the homeowner's insurance is not in your name. And by the way, you can't have insur- You insurance law is basically you have to have an insurable interest. I do not have an interest in Jade's house, legally. So, I can't go be buying insurance on somebody else's house. That's the That's got to be the illegal part of that. >> on your house. This house is in your name. They They Their insurance policy's

not valid. >> Yeah. So, you're going to They're not going to get the money. You're going to end up with nothing. Nobody's going to get nothing. Cuz the insurance company's going to go, uh you didn't own the house. Yeah. Is that a illegal? Like if

that can't if something like that happened.

>> the policy.

So the light the the insurance company's going to go, uh, no. I'm not We're not writing a check for a million dollars on a property that uh to the to the people that I are not our client and our client doesn't own the property. Right. Right.

Right. >> So the so the so that it's not worth the paper it's written on. >> Oh, that's a mess. >> It's useful useless.

So there's so much wrong with trying to do what is effectively uh uh called a wraparound mortgage where they wrapped around the old mortgage and they carried back 60 and they wrapped around the 320 for a total of 380.

mortgage where there's a due-on-sale clause and I promise you there's a due-on-sale clause on that. I promise you there is. So, um yeah, that that's

that's what you get into. Ouch. Scary scary scary scary. Yes, get refinanced as soon as possible.

And get go and go buy it insurance on your property today. Go buy homeowner's insurance today.

Forget that they've got it. And no, we're not paying them for it cuz >> terrible. >> paying their policy is ridiculous.

But that's why they didn't want to change the policy cuz when you change the policy names out, it tells [music] the mortgage company that we've sold the house and it activates the due-on-sale clause. >> That does sound a little shifty.

Well, it's just dumb. It's some somebody doing real estate on TikTok. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and [music] that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 143. Stop Being Normal, Attack Your Debt Now! | August 5, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:39 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the brand new hit on the Ramsey Network.

It's called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Jack's in St. Louis. Hey Jack, how are you? >> I'm great. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world, >> Dave? I'm broke. I'm borrowing money from family to live. My wife and I both work for a school district. We work all the hours they'll work us. Every every chance they get to do some extra jobs, we do it. Uh I'm qualify for welfare

now. I've got two adopted sons at home.

We've adopted a lot of children through the years. Never made much money. And I've got a house that I owe about.

>> 120. I'm sorry. Go. I won't interrupt you. 120. And I'm sorry. What's it worth? What's it worth? >> It's worth about 189. Okay, >> here's the problem. Every house that's for sale in our area is cost more than what I owe on on the house I've got now.

So, I could sell the house and break out with my equity and start over, but then I'm going to be right back in the position I'm in again. So, I feel like I'm in a corner I can't get out of.

>> Okay. One thing I drove by there that I wanted to ask about, and I almost interrupt you. I apologize. Was the um No problem. You're both working full-time jobs and somehow you still qualify for welfare >> for uh the food program. Yes.

>> What's your combined income?

>> It's uh a little less than 35.

>> And you work for the school system?

>> Yeah. >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That that's not even $7 an hour. You're not working 40 hours. Not two people.

>> Well, she Well, here here's the catcher.

She is a substitute teacher, but she works every time they call her.

>> Yeah, but that's not full-time. >> We don't know what else to do. >> Well, that's not a full-time job. That's sporadic at best.

>> Well, my my contract is for a little bit less than 20 and then she makes the rest. >> What do you do to make $20,000 for the school system? >> I'm in transportation and I drive five routes a day. Okay.

>> And uh how long have you been doing that, hun? >> This will be my sixth year. Okay. All right. What did you do before that?

>> I pastored churches >> and ran a bank. I actually ran a bank for eight years.

>> This is This is a This is a world I'm not used to. I don't know what to do.

>> Mhm. >> I don't know what to do. >> Okay. >> Well, I I do. Your job sucks. You need a different job.

>> You make no money, sir. That's the problem. You guys are You are living at the poverty level. I mean, with two kids and $35,000 because she's not working full-time and uh and when you work, you're not getting paid anything.

And so, dude, you can make more than you make working at Target 40 hours a week putting boxes on shelves.

Way more than you make.

>> Yeah. >> And so, your job just sucks. We've got to reset your career sites. Uh you do.

And and we'll be happy to help you with that. But you have an income problem, not an outgo problem. And your house, and you're you're correct. I agree with your assessment. Your house sale will not fix this situation cuz you you >> It's going to cost me $17,000 to sell it time. I pay commission.

>> Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It doesn't fix the problem because you have a an income that is not sustainable. You

cannot live on it.

>> Yeah. >> And so we you have to reset your career.

>> Yeah. I I I don't want to put you on the spot, but I I feel like I need to ask you this. If you were if you were sitting across from somebody who used to go to the church you pastored and they told you what you just told us, what would your advice to that person be?

>> Well, that's a good question. I uh

if you know if it's >> don't don't listen you've already answered >> insanity is is you know as they say

insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results >> correct >> so my my advice would probably be what you just told me. >> Yeah. So you are I think that there's

been a series of things that have happened that have led you to this. We don't need to break all those things down, but if I could just encourage you to do what you believe, to do what you

would tell someone else, and your wife needs to go get a real job today. I

don't care if she's being a cashier at the local supermarket, but we're going to literally go. Where are the open jobs that no teenager, most people don't want to go, but they're already going to make more money than what you guys are making. And you're going to have to get to the point where you say, "I can do more things. If I can turn a wrench, if I'm handy, I'm going to start working on some construction crews because at this point, you guys have been making so little money.

You have gotten to the point where you believe that's all you're worth." >> Yeah. And you're not. That's not true. >> This is garbage.

Get after it, man. Let's change our day.

Let's change our week. Let's change our month >> by going and getting to work.

>> If you're working 40 hours, you're making $9.

>> And Target and Target's paying 20.

>> Great. >> I do have a a separate issue here. I've got two the two boys I adopted are autistic. >> And my wife has to stay with them some.

At least some. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> She's doing what she's doing as a substitute has allowed us to to be able

to take care of them. You know >> how what happens when she's substituting and you're driving?

>> Well, I I get a few breaks during the

day, but that's about it. We we we we take we tag team. >> How How old are the boys?

>> Uh 15 and 11.

>> Are they going to require care of their whole life? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, you don't have a choice. You have to find a workaround.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I'm telling you, I'm in a predicament. I don't know what to do. >> No, you do know what to do. You've got to get a different job, dude. It's very simple. It's a math problem. You are not

making any money and you have decided

that this is the only possible thing for you. And that's so fatalistic and incorrect. So, I don't care what you do.

I don't care if you start a business. I don't care if you cut grass.

>> Dude, if she starts cleaning toilets, she can make four times what she's making now being somebody's maid.

>> Yeah. >> People are paying $25 to $50 an hour to be for maids right now. and take the boys with her, you know, or she gets a customer service job where she's on the phone just doing a basic script. She could be making 12 $15 an hour easy from

home. >> But we have to get in the uh generating income mode rather than we are trapped

mode. You are not trapped.

>> You have the worst possible jobs, both

of you, for this situation. And so you've got to start going, "What can I do to make some money cuz I need and

that's not greed. That's survival." Because your house is not unreasonable.

Your life is not unreasonable. You're not a bunch of overspenders. You're not out of control. You just are broke. You just don't make any money, sir.

>> Yeah. I There's a spirit over him.

There's a spirit over you.

>> Uh, Jack, and you know it.

>> That's just the I'm stuck spirit. Yeah, I'm trapped. There's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do. You said it like four times >> and it it's just not true.

>> We are talking to a guy who's done things and can do things and you've got

to do something else in your situation.

You cannot survive. And so, yeah, you both of you are looking for jobs today and and you may be looking for jobs and upgrading jobs and jumping in and out of jobs for the next year to get your income up 20, $30, $40 an hour. And

let's get after it. Go get you a lawn mower, man. Get you a pressure washer.

Do something. You can make a lot more money than you're making right now.

[Music]

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[Music]

Steve's in Lynchberg, Virginia. Hi, Steve. How are you?

>> Good, guys. How are youall doing today? >> Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

>> Uh trying to help my parents that have gotten into a pretty bad uh position. Uh their house was foreclosed on. Uh they

did a loan modification to get it out of foreclosure. So the loan's current. Uh they currently have uh about $13,000 and

judgments against the house based on two credit card debts and a a medical debt

and a heliloc and a HUD loan. And I

don't know, you know, what advice to give them to help them out but not enable them. I don't know if bankruptcy would affect the HUD or HELOC. So just trying to look for different answers.

The foreclosure must not have occurred.

There's not a plan with a traditional HUD mortgage where you actually get foreclosed on and then they give you the house back on a modification. They must have done the modification right before the actual foreclosure sale occurred while the house was in foreclosure. Does that sound right? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. The foreclosure was in process.

But once they drop the hammer at the actual auction at the courthouse steps, there's no going back. That's my point.

Okay. So that's anyway. So they've got a loan modification, a helock, and a bunch of debt. Why are they not able to pay their bills?

>> Uh they're they just haven't made smart decisions with their money and I think they were, you know, depending on social

security and other stuff and realize that uh retirement a lot quicker than what they >> are both 65.

>> Okay. Do they both work?

Uh my mom has never worked due to um uh

we'll say medical issues. Uh my dad has worked and he still works some jobs. Uh he's a contractor so he does uh like remodels and stuff but uh he's not able to do as much as he used to from doing construction for 40 years.

>> He's not physically able.

>> He's not physically able to do a full-time position. And then I try to talk him into >> What's wrong with what's wrong with him physically?

>> Cuz I I'm 65 and I work full-time and I could work full-time swinging a hammer if I had to.

>> Yes, sir. He's He's just uh he's broken his ankle a couple times and when he was in the military, he broke his back falling off a tank. Um so it's just something that he can't, you know, carry lumber and stuff up and >> Well, he never has been able to.

>> Okay. >> He didn't break it, he didn't break his back six months ago. Oh, he broke it 20 years ago, >> right? >> So, what'd he do for the last 20 years for carrying lumber?

>> Uh, he's he's been able to do it. I guess just the age and arthritis is catching up to him. >> Well, but here's the thing, though. He's an actual contractor.

So, if he were to go out and beat the bushes for some restoration projects, renovation projects, he can put a crew together of young guys. He knows how to do it. And a contractor doesn't have to to be swinging the hammer if he goes >> or lifting the lumber. He goes and gets good guys, young guys that want to learn the trade.

My point is he could make really good money as an actual The reason we bring this up is you can't live on social security with what you're talking about, >> right? >> You got mortgage, you got HOA, you got leans from credit cards, all because they were trying to live on money that's not enough to cover their bills, >> right? >> It's an income problem.

>> You're you're absolutely correct. I just don't know if there's I I've heard you say so many times, you know, if you talk to creditors, >> you know, they'll usually settle pennies on the dollar with >> they will, but he's going to be right back there again, >> right? >> Well, we've if we clean them up, I don't want them coming back.

>> I don't want the same same mathematical problem in the household recurring.

And so, we've got to fix. Now if we fix the overall situation to where in other

words the income is enough to cover the household expenses through whatever reason we either reduce the expenses that far or we increase the income.

Either one of those if we if we do either one of those then we've got a sustainable situation. Then if you went in and use some of your money to settle some of the old debts and get them cleaned off to where they've got a clean slate to start going forward. That would be not that would not be enabling and that would be a good move on your part if you've got that extra money. But where you just pay off that stuff and they keep doing the same thing that got them there in the first place, they're going to be right back again.

Follow me, >> right? And that's kind of where I'm selfishly like, well, maybe if I get them to file bankruptcy, they'll clear this up and they won't be able to go into further debt because they're >> Oh, no.

>> Oh, you can definitely get into debt after bankruptcy. Credit card company will send you a pre-approved credit card 20 minutes after you file.

>> Okay. Well, will the well helocks and HUD loans are those negotiable down? Do you have you have >> No, they will not negotiate because they have a house securing them, >> right? >> So, how much do they owe how much they owe on the first mortgage?

>> Uh 121,000.

>> What about the Hilo?

>> Uh HELOC and HUD are both 30,000.

>> Okay. And what's the house worth?

>> 350ish. >> Okay. So, here's an idea.

Get them on a budget they can live on with a paid for house. Sell the house

and buy a $200,000 condo. Paid for, no

debt. >> Right >> now they got no house payment.

>> And if you settle the credit cards and get rid of them or you could actually pay them off out of the sale proceeds.

You don't even need to use your money and then buy a house with the money that's left over in cash. A condo with a house money that's left over in cash.

And if that sets them up on a budget that they can live on the amount that they've got coming in without either one of them working much, then fine. Um, but

I still think your dad ought to go do something, >> right? Um, I I agree. What about the

idea that I've been floating now is buying the house from them?

>> No. Absolutely not.

>> No, cuz we're not addressing the core issue. The core issue is they can't live

on it.

I mean, if you just gave them a free house. Yeah, I guess if you want to do that. I mean, do you have an extra $350,000 laying around?

>> I do. >> You do? What's your net worth?

>> I do. Uh, close to 2 million.

>> Okay. All right. >> You buried the lead on us.

>> Yeah. That that's information that would have changed the whole discussion from the start. But if you want to do that, then you own the house. But I still want them to create a sustainable life. And so I want them to go through Financial Peace University. I want them living on a budget. And I don't want them to I want them to promise to never borrow another dime the rest of their entire lives.

>> Right. And I I we've talked about it. I think without the house payment, you

know, their their social security income and the side jobs they could they could easily get by on. Um >> they they mathematically could, but they've chosen not to do that in the past.

They've chosen to let their house go all the way into foreclosure. They've chosen to not pay credit cards to the point they now have a judgment lean on their house. And so they'll choose that again

unless we have a very clear understanding and I would write it down not as a legal agreement but as a clarity agreement >> and my concern is if you buy the house and I'm I'm I'm wondering here are you planning to let them live there rent free? >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to clarify that. Is that the plan?

>> That that's the plan. And I just feel like if I try charging rent and they got behind it just I get that. But here's here's the thing I'm going to say. I don't even like this because let's say you do that and they live rent free but they they don't uh stick to a budget.

They get now the resentment is so high and then you got this stupid house. I'd make them sell the house. I wouldn't buy this house if I were you. Whether you have the money or not. >> I I I might buy it. I might disagree with Ken, but under the same under the conditions that address his concern.

Yeah. and that is me and mom and dad have a very clear understanding we're going to have zero debt when this transaction is complete and you are promising to a live on a written budget that the two of you run every month and I'll help you with it. I'll coach you along and b uh you promise to never

borrow money again under any circumstances ever, >> right? >> The rest of your breathing freaking life. >> Okay? And if you do those, if they stick to those two things, they can sustain on social security with no house payment.

And you're paying, you own the house.

House is going to go up in value. You'll be all right over time. You're going to have some repair costs and taxes and insurance you got to come out of pocket with annually. Um, and you'd have to do

those. You have to plan on that. But you've got the money to do this. If they agree to make the changes in their behaviors, characters, habits, and they

agree, and I'm literally going to write this out as a one-page >> document that we agree to, >> and I'm afraid to sign it.

>> I don't know why I simply there's no evidence that they will. So, you're right. You're right. >> Yeah. >> That that is that is a correct assumption, but that's the only way I would do the deal. Otherwise, I'd simply make them sell it. And that's really hard to do. You've got the money and it it's super hard to do since you got the money. >> Yeah, it is. >> But >> I'm a little heartless today. >> You are. Yeah. You're just kind of getting with it today.

>> Glad I got you on here cuz I might have was

[Music]

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[Music]

John's in Texas. Hey, John. How are you?

Hey Dave, I'm doing good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I kind of got um an issue. I need to

know I just need someone with a with more insight than I do on this if I'm taking a more of a risk than I should.

Um I'm I'm looking at buying another car, a used car. Um since I've been 18,

I've been driving $500 beaters and that's just the way I've lived. I got married, got my wife pregnant, and I bought a new car, and I kind of regret it because I have 13K of that car. I

still need to pay off. It's reliable, but I've al said, you know, I should just stuck with a good used car. So, I'm looking at getting another one. My usual budget of buying a car is around 5K. Um,

but I've been I live in an area where it's hard to find a reliable car for 5K.

You'll typically buy it for 5K and then you'll have to sink another one, two, three grand in repairs into it. and I

come across a car that's at $9,200. It's got 43,000 miles on it. It's a Lexus ES300. Super reliable. The dude said he

has receipts from every time they got gas. I mean, it's got every record that you need there. It's in mint condition, garage. >> John, do you have $9,200?

>> I do. I do. Yes, sir. I have um so back

in cashwise I have about 30k disposable income and about 5k in crypto and silver

that I I I don't consider spending money but I I have right now I have $10,000 in cash on my desk and I'm looking at it.

>> And you have and you have uh and you have $13,000 car payment.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. I would sell the crypto

today.

>> Okay. >> For all the reasons. And um I would pay

off your car today and I would buy this car.

>> Okay.

Okay. >> You've got the cash to do all of that.

>> I do. >> Yep. I'd be debtree by the end of this transaction and have two decent cars and then start saving with no car payment.

Is that your only debt other than your home? >> That is. Me and my wife got a um we got

a lawsuit from a car wreck. We finally settled a lawsuit and I paid off all my debt this past year.

Car except that car she's driving. Yeah.

Okay. And you got a baby on the way, you said, or brand new baby?

>> No, he's one and a half. >> Oh, good. Okay, perfect. And you're you're what? 26 or 25?

>> Uh 27. >> 27. Pretty good guess. Okay.

>> And so almost like I've done this. Yeah.

And so um >> yeah, that's exactly where you are. And now here's the trick, dude. Okay. You you you have mastered the art of living

frugally in order to save money.

You have not mastered the art of managing money.

>> Yes, sir. >> Which will make the money that you have coming in now with no debt grow really,

really fast. And so, I'm going to give you guys every dollar premium for that baby. And I want you and your wife to sit down with zero car payments. And you have the newer you have the new Lexus.

She has the paid for $13,000 of debt that's gone. And you've got some money over here to work your baby steps. And now we got to build and make sure we have an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. And then once we have that, we're going to start investing in our 401ks and you're going to be wealthy.

But you're going to systematize your frugality rather than just saying frugality is going to save me. Frugality

won't make you wealthy. It is one of the

things that will cause you to build build margin and the margin will make you wealthy. But you can't frugal yourself into rich. You can only frugal

yourself into survival. And you live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. And so you that's that's frugality, but there's no there's no life in there.

>> And so that that's that's the $500 car thing. And so you've been very wise in that sense. But I want you to just harness that energy and focus it now and

systematize it. And that's called managing money, not just cheaping.

Cheaping is good for a while to get you where you need to go. You're going to be a great dad. You're going to be a great husband. You're a good man. I'm glad you called. We want to help you and your family. You hang on. We'll have him pick up and get you going on this. Carson's in Provo, Utah. Hi, Carson. Speaking of frugal, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? I'm doing great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Yeah. No, I loved hearing what you were saying before. I guess my question is um how do I know if I'm being too frugal or too cheap? Um I I love kind of what you

talk about giving and I think that's something that I could be a little better at, but I just feel like sometimes I'm a little too frugal or a little too cheap or the people around me think I'm >> well you live in a cult. You live people around you that overspend. And so if a congressman says you're being too too frugal, that's not an indication you're frugal. It's just an indication you're on track.

So broke people make fun of your finances. That's okay. So that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is you're wondering.

>> I am not. So I'm 24. I just started my

first like full-time job and I'm making pretty good money.

>> What's pretty good money?

>> I'm making 85,000 a year.

>> Good. What are you doing? Um, I'm a computer we're little software developers. >> Good. Good for you. Give us some examples. Uh, so say Dave and I go to lunch with you. Give us a couple of examples where we might think you're too

frugal. What is your best guess?

>> Um, if I didn't offer to pay, if I chose

or like made some comments about if the most expensive thing on the menu was, you know, ridiculously expensive or if I chose maybe like the cheapest thing on the menu as a little obvious.

I don't know. That's uh I don't that's not jumping out at you. >> That's just somebody that's being aware.

>> Yeah. I I think you may be beating yourself up. >> Yeah. I think you're doing okay on that.

>> Here's the thing. There are three things you can do with money. And you should always do all three things to be psychologically and spiritually mature.

You should always be generous. So when you're at lunch, regardless of what you order, I want you to leave a nice tip.

Those people work hard. Okay. The second thing is you can enjoy money. And I want you to get some joy from money.

I used to work for a guy that was trying that was trying to help me build wealth. And he said, "Dave, I want you to build enough wealth that you read a menu from the left to the right. Most people spend their whole lives looking down the price column to choose what they're going to order. I want you to order what you want to order, regardless of the price.

And that means you've built enough wealth that it doesn't matter what you have for freaking lunch." Okay?

to enjoy your life within reason. and the you know so generosity enjoy and then investing and I want you to be systematically investing. So if you're giving money and you're enjoying money you're doing no investing you're out of balance. If you're investing and you're enjoying money but you're not doing any generosity you're out of balance. You follow me? So any of that it's a three-legged stool. You got to get all three legs to sit down on that stool.

And I'd be working on that and practicing um you're you're good at

living on less than you make. That's a natural gifting. My wife is the same way. My wife has leftovers in the refrigerator and we're multi multi multi-millionaires. It makes no sense at all. Okay. But they're there and um and

and then tells me how great they are over and over and over again just to try to sell me on them. After 43 years, she's still trying to make this sale.

It's she's her natural gifting is frugality. >> Okay. Some people's natural gifting is generosity. Some people's natural gifting is they love saving. and they get a hive from investing and watching their mutual fund account grow. So, lean

into that. Enjoy the ride, but make sure

you're doing some things that feel a little bit like you're spending too much. That's you enjoying your money.

Yeah. While you're being generous, while you're investing, >> and if you're doing all three, you're going to be okay. >> That's right. Quick question. Would you describe yourself as fearful or hopeful with money?

Will.

>> Oh, me. I'm sorry. >> Oh, my bad. I pushed the wrong Carson's already on hold.

I got you. >> I'll put him on hold. >> Yeah. I think here's what I was going to get at.

I think people have to is it's a great uh point you made. You got to ask yourself, is my natural default because of the environment I grew up in or the experience that I've lived to this moment. Both your environment and experience is what shapes the way you see any issue and certainly money.

towards hope with money? And there's no wrong answer here. But when you can see that, then you can go into the roots of this and go, why am I naturally fearful about money? Or why am I tending to be a little bit more hopeful, a little bit more optimistic?

And that's really key to kind of know yourself. When Rachel wrote her bestselling book, I'm looking at it, number one bestseller, know yourself, know your money. I thought it was very insightful. Let's give him a copy.

Let's do that. I think it'd be a great gift. Give him a copy. Carson, hang on.

We'll get you a copy of Rachel's book. I think it'll help you with this whole discussion. >> Really good. >> Yeah.

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Jane is with us in Florida. Hi Jane, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I had a question about what you would think in our for our situation. We just bought a small business using an SBA 7A loan.

>> I'm sorry. Say that again. I didn't hear the first part. It got garbled.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I was just asking what you think we should do in our situation.

We just bought a small business choosing an SBA 7A loan and we live in a very

high cost of living area, my fiance and I, and we're considering buying a house versus renting considering that we have

this new debt with us. So, what do you

think we should do? >> You both signed an SBA loan together and you're not married.

>> We're about to be married. Yes. >> When?

>> This this year?

>> Friday.

Got it. >> This is very dangerous.

How much is the FB SBA loan?

>> Around 700,000.

>> How old are you two?

>> I'm 28. He's 29.

>> What is this business?

>> It is a bluecollar service business that does very well. It's um specific area

that it services and it's a necessary service. So, h >> have you um have you have you opened?

>> Yeah, we we took over two weeks ago.

>> Oh, someone else had it and you bought it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That That's >> What is the uh what's the annual profits on this business?

>> Gross last year was over a million. Um

the owner last year paid himself from 350,000.

>> Geez.

And you paid 700 grand for it. Okay.

Correct. >> Um what uh uh and are you both working it full-time?

>> Um I have a job and he's working

>> 100,000 around there.

>> Okay. And so hypothetically your household income is 350.

>> Well, he's not going to pay himself as much. >> Yeah. I mean, you have a profit in the business of 250, >> right? Yeah. >> That's a profit.

>> Even if he doesn't pay himself, he paid himself. It's profit. It's taxable income. It's got to come somewhere. If it's not a salary or not, it comes to you at the end of the year.

>> Mhm. >> You're going to pay taxes on it. You might as well take it home. Okay?

>> Right? >> So, you make 250 there, 150 with you, that's 350. You owe 700. No, I would not buy a house.

I would rent a cheap one-bedroom apartment, and I would pay this crazy butt loan off that you got yourself into in two years or two and a half years. >> Well, that's what we're doing now, so good. I would just stay right where you are. And I also think that you're extremely vulnerable when you did this without being married.

And so you're not going to do it, but you should get married immediately. >> Yeah. Yeah.

unmarried couple got gets into a business and the relationship goes kaput and then it's nasty. I want to make sure our audience understands why you're so certain about that. We hear that over and over again.

We get it when everything doesn't work out exactly like you planned, >> which is every time.

>> It never works out exactly like you planned. It might be better than you planned. It might be worse than you planned, but it never works out exactly like you planned. So, folks, here's what you got to think through. What what Ken's right, what we what we see is um

what causes this. Okay, so here here's an example of things that have come in over the years. Now, this is pretty macob, but it's actual phone calls, okay? And over the 30 years of doing this, they're in the situation that that young lady is in. And um he gets t-boned

and is in a wheelchair,

can't speak, can't move.

Now what? Oh, or he gets killed.

Now she owns a business with her future mother-in-law because there's no will, of course.

But and his half of stuff does not go to a fiance under Florida law unless there's a will that states that it does.

So you need that done by the end of the day.

Um but yeah, you end up um and you didn't really like the mother-in-law.

You were just loved the son-in-law.

>> You just love the the son. That's all you loved. And so you were but now you're partners with her and she's not going to work there, by the way. But she wants her half.

>> Yeah. and you got to go down there and work full-time because you are about to get foreclosed on by the SBA. If you don't, all this stuff happens all the time. And and so the other thing that can happen is you go in there and you take it over and it runs better than you thought it would and you're able to pay the loan off in 18 months instead of two and a half years.

That would be an awesome thing. I hope that for you. I hope that's what occurs. I hope it's better than you thought it was.

yeah, this thing of uh running a business, there's three rules of business. It takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It costs twice as much as you think it's going to. And you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business.

>> Um, and I've experienced them in depth over 35 years of running Ramsay. So, um,

I'm not the exception either. And so, I have to plan everything out for worst case scenarios. And, um, that's

certainly a not borrowing money and b certainly not borrowing money with someone I'm not married to.

The same thing applies to buying a house with your sweet little fiance. Don't do it. >> That's right. >> Well, see, they're living together now. A more common scenario, too, is that he gets under pressure. He's never run his own business before. And I got to tell you something, folks, that's a whole different enchilada. And if he gets super stressed, the relationship starts.

>> Called him an enchilada.

>> I said, "No, not him." I said it. Being a business owner, >> he will change. He will change form.

>> He will. And uh you hope none of this happens, but that's why we're not, you know, the sky is falling. This isn't chicken little advice. This is a lot of experience. >> Don't ask Sharon Ramsey about Dave Ramsey going broke version versus Dave Ramsey today version. She You won't like the discussion. >> Yeah. >> If because she will tell you the truth.

>> Yeah. >> It's not pretty. I'm just saying.

>> Yeah, I agree with you, Dave. Get to the courthouse, get a will. Let's get this stuff. We jumped into this massive partnership, but we didn't really cover it all the way around. >> Yeah, >> that's what concerns us. doing things in the wrong order. Get your head taken off. It's pretty simple, >> right? >> So, yeah, the data is there, folks. The data is there. It's not it's not simply a moralistic argument, although you could make the argument on that basis alone, but it's not simply that. There's legal implications, financial implications.

All of these things roll into these discussions and and running out your worst case scenarios. So, yeah. No, I would not buy a house and add to the problems that you have already. I would run like my hair was on fire to get these problems cleaned up.

>> One thing I want to do, I want to ask a question on behalf of our very large audience here. We didn't discuss. I'd love for you to give them a a fundamental. If you're going to buy a business, how much you should spend based on revenues?

Because I think >> I don't think they overpaid. I don't think they did either, but >> if they got if they got a good buy if they if they if it if the numbers are what they think they are, if their due diligence when they were signing up to and going through the books. >> That's right. >> They actually did that.

The I mean, cuz here here's the thing. You're buying a business. There's the owner will tell you this is what our books say. I don't care.

>> What do the tax returns say? >> Yes. >> What they file taxes on? Well, we didn't report everything.

Oh, so you're telling me you don't have integrity? Okay. And now I'm supposed to believe your books. No, I think I'm going off the number on the tax return.

What you're willing to pay taxes on is your real profit. What you actually have to pay taxes on, that's your real profit. Well, I have depreciation schedule. Yeah, you also had the expenses of the buy the item that you were depreciating.

So, that's bull crap. And so, help you with the math on that.

That's how that works. So anyway, I want to see what the real bottom line is, what the real taxable income is. And based on that, I'm going to do a multiple of three, four, five, somewhere in there is going to be the valuation of that small business. And um that's after

a manager is paid to run the business if you're an absentee owner.

This is the Ramsay Show.

[Music]

Hey [Music] be.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work that they actually

love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, and host of the new hit on the Ramsey Network, Front Row Seat. And uh you need

to check that out if you haven't checked out that podcast. It's a long form interviews with some of America's best and brightest and some of the world's best and brightest as a matter of fact.

And um you had Gary Cise on the other day. >> Yeah. You know what a great actor, probably one of the most respected men in Hollywood and and really probably the

most respected servant of our men and

women who have served in the military. He's got a great heart for veterans. does incredible work, of course, on the backs of probably one of the most beloved characters in movie history as it relates to our military characters, and that's Lieutenant Dan and doing great work. He's good friend of yours and came in and we had a great time.

>> Yeah. He's moved to this area a few years ago and we've got to be friends and genuinely the kindest gentle guy. Very

humble. >> Yeah. Yeah. You guys will love watching that interview.

It's great. So, check it out. Um, and uh, the Jimmy John interview has been going zoom zoom, hasn't it? >> Yes, absolutely.

It's huge feedback on that as as we really had a hunch that it would because a the guy knows what he's talking about when you go from offering three sandwiches with used equipment to selling for $3.3 billion. You should probably listen to this guy. He's got the American dream figured out. He did it and did it well.

And one of the kindest talk about kindness >> and generous. Yeah. Yeah.

Unbelievably generous. Yeah. >> He shoots the whole theory that billionaires are evil people to pieces.

He really does. He's pretty funny about that. >> He >> I thought he would be more bombastic to that answer. It was a good answer, though.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He He was starting to heat up. >> Yeah, he was.

But he caught himself. He did. He did. >> You know, I just feel sorry for him.

They're just not smart. It's like >> Yeah, it's good. Oh my gosh. Uh check it all out.

It's called Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman. It's on YouTube and on podcast anywhere great podcasts are sold. You'll be able to pull it up, watch it, listen to it. Um, you will get great information and inspiration and that's what we do here.

Alex is with us in Texas. Hi, Alex.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm a newlywed just wanting to get your opinion on the best way to join finances. >> Cool. How long you been married?

>> Um, I got married in July, so just a couple weeks. >> Oh, look at you. Way to go. How old are you guys? >> Um, 27 and 28.

>> Okay, that's a very important question.

And uh the reason it's very important is 30 years of doing what we're doing, we know that very few couples have a high quality marriage and and build wealth

without combining their finances. And uh

as a matter of fact, which one of the things we found in the millionaire study where we were studying millionaires, 83% of millionaires said they were working handinand as a team with their spouse.

Both had a vote, both were pulling the wagon together, and that's how they became millionaires. So, it's a great question. Now, the question is how to do it. Uh, from a tactical standpoint, your

monthly income, pretty simple. One checking account.

>> All the money goes into one checking account. That number, that monthly

income number goes at the top of the budget.

And the two of you sit down together and have a budget committee meeting.

And you say, "Okay, before the month begins, we're going to have 32 73 or

$8,642 or whatever the number is this coming month. That's what we're going to have.

Now, let's spend all of those dollars.

Give every one of those dollars a name in the every dollar budget and we both agree to it. There cannot be any money left over. It has to go into savings. It has to go into generosity. It has to go onto a debt. It has to go be spent on groceries. It has to go to something.

Every dollar has to have an assignment exactly to the penny. No leftover squash

money. No need. If you want to put it in savings, put it in savings. I don't care. And then call it, you know, call it my emergency fund. Whatever you're doing with it, do it on purpose and do it together. Is that what you're asking?

>> Um, yes. But also, so we have some debt.

I just wasn't sure. I've seen how some people say do like 95% all in one account. You each get like 5% for on money slash money, whatever you want. >> Yeah. Some people are broke.

>> So don't listen. So don't listen to some people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Some people got an opinion about everything and so and they're wrong. So no, I wouldn't do any of that. The thing is this. You're going to attack your debts together. It's for better, for worse, for rich or for poorer. And the old >> the old uh uh marriage vows from the Book of Common Prayer say, "Unto thee.

All my worldly goods I pledge."

>> So we're truly joining everything. He He

got you and your debt. You got him and

your debt. You got him and his income.

He got you and your income. And now we

are we, not you and me.

>> Okay, perfect. Then I have one other question if that's okay. >> Okay. >> Um, we do have a daughter. She'll be two

and we are trying to find out the best saving option for her future.

>> Okay. That would be a 529 plan for her

college. And you don't need to worry about that until you're out of debt.

have your emergency fund in place and that'll be called the baby steps. I'm going to send you guys a wedding gift. It's called The Total Money Makeover.

It's our bestselling book. We've sold 14 million of them. America's greatest coffee t table coaster. And so, um, it's sat there on people's coffee tables for years and they don't read it. But, I'm going to send you one. It's got the baby steps in it. And people that follow those baby steps show you exactly how to do it. They become wealthy and they get

out of debt and they learn to work together. I'm going to add a little wedding gift as well, Dave, since uh you've got me in the spirit of giving.

Uh Rachel Cruz uh wrote a great book,

number one bestseller, called Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And this is the advice I want to give you. Dave gave you great tactical advice, but you two are learning how to truly live together.

And and and one of the most important things you'll do in your marriage is learn how to manage money together. And one of the reasons I want you two to read this book together is because you both need to know based on your experience in life with money and then your environment, the way your parents talked about money, that's all shaped you. And then you guys are wired a certain way towards money and knowing um how you guys are wired for money, which this book will teach you and you'll be able to really grasp it. It's a great book for young couples that are getting started because if you two can understand each other as you go into the budgeting and into the baby steps, I think it'll make it so much more I think it's a great book for every young couple to read.

So, we'll give you that book as well. >> Yeah, I agree. And Rachel wrote it actually out of the pain of her and Winston learning to >> That's right. >> work together.

Yeah. >> Um and um because they're very different. Rachel's got a little bit of her father in the sense that uh this abundance versus scarcity. I've always thought I could out earn my stupidity and Rachel definitely goes along with that.

And Winston on the other hand is very methodical, very careful and as a saver >> and is very wise and so the two of them working together have have woven that together over a decade plus a marriage into a wonderful marriage. >> Yeah, that's >> and uh so that's good advice and you learn to work together.

Typically, a spender attracts a saver.

Typically, abundance attracts scarcity.

Typically, you know, the uh nerd that likes details

attracts the person who is not that concerned about details and would much rather have a party. And so, the free spirit. So the nerd and the free spirit, the spender and the saver, the scarcity and the abundance, all these things are typically opposites and you need each other. You learn from each other that you add spice to the gumbo from each other. Uh, one's not right, one's not wrong, but learning to work together, as Ken's pointing out, is absolutely vital.

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[Music]

Mel is in Nashville. Hi, Mel. How are you?

>> I'm good, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, hey. Um, so I am

set up with trying to figure out what I'm doing. I have no clue what I'm doing just to be honest. I'm trying to get on a plan to get out of debt. Um and I just

I don't really know where to start and the last year has been awful. Um I have

about uh approximately probably $25,000

in credit card debt. Um and it also

includes a personal loan. Um but um

about a year, well a little over a year ago, I lost my husband. he passed away.

And ever since then, I like I was doing

actually trying to do a little bit better before that happened. I was starting to get things paid off. And then I went back right back into the cycle of just using my credit card for everything and just trying to stay afloat. And um I still have two kids at

home, so I'm trying to navigate all of that. And I'm trying to get through this without crying. So >> So how old are your babies? How old are your babies? Uh they are 10 and 15.

>> Okay. And what do you make? What do you make? What's your income?

>> Uh before taxes, it's um almost 60.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. How old are you?

>> I'm 44. >> What do you do for a living?

>> Um I work in insurance.

>> Okay. All right.

Um

well there there's several touch points that help you get control.

Okay. Um some of them are emotional, spiritual, psychological. Some of them are mathematical.

Okay. >> Math is math is we get our income up

looking at some side hustles >> that you can do with babies at home. And

uh we get our outgo down and we make the

money that we have behave. And that's called a budget. The money that you have is not behaving. It's living from desperation to desperation because you are >> right. >> When you're scared and you're scared, I can hear it. You get desperate. And

every time I get desperate, right after that, I get stupid.

>> Yeah. >> And that's what piles up. and then you feel stuck and then the shame comes and

all those other things. So all that's the emotional part and the psychological part and the spiritual part. Okay, but um the good news is you actually make

enough money to live on. You don't make a ton of money, but you can pro we can probably figure this out. >> What do you owe on your car?

>> Uh actually I don't.

>> Oh, good. That's good news. So 25,000 in

credit card and student and personal loan. What other debt?

>> Um, that that's it.

>> What do you owe on your home?

>> Nothing. >> It's paid off. >> Uh, it's paid off. Well, we we live in a trailer, but it's paid off.

>> It's paid off. You don't have any house payment. >> Paid off, right? No mortgage. Yeah.

>> That's good. That's good. Okay. So, no mortgage is a good thing and 25K in credit card and you make 60. This is doable. Okay.

>> Right. >> Um, and and so >> I tell myself, I'm like, it's doable. I don't know why I can't see. >> Well, because because your heart was broken. You lost your husband. Huh?

>> And you were struggling. Okay. And that's just normal human stuff. So, what we've got to do is help you put together a system to live on the money that you have.

And we're going to put you on the every dollar budget and we're going to get your Ramsey coach and I'm going to pay for all of it. Okay? I'll take care of you. Make sure you get up on and get running here.

You can do this mathematically, but the first thing is is you've got to change the way you look at it. in the way you think about it. Of course, we're going to get the credit cards out and cut them up.

>> Not >> not. >> Okay. So, we're going to stop using the stupid things. We're going to have a plan to eat and pay the lights and, you

know, uh make sure the water is on and then we'll start talking about how we can pay off this debt after we've met our basic needs in the household. But if you've if you've eaten food, if your family has food and your family has lights and water and you've got gas for

your car to drive to work, um uh you

make plenty of money to do all that, >> right? >> And so we've just got to make the money behave and then we can start using some of it after we've taken care of Mel and her kids. Then we'll use some of it to start taking care of the stupid banks and get them out of your life forever and ever.

Amen. never go back.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's what we're going to do.

So, I can we can show you exactly how to do this, but you're just by yourself and you're um you're it's what I would be

doing if I lost Sharon. I'd be just flailing around a little bit.

>> Yeah. >> And you're just kind of flopping around, you know, and it's just going everywhere and you're just running and going and you're tired, you're stressed. Is that Am I Is this true? Am I telling the truth? >> Yes. Yes, very much.

>> Okay. All right. Are you in a good church?

>> I am. Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> I am good. >> Does your pastor know you're facing all this? >> Yes. >> You sure? >> Yeah.

I mean, they know I don't know if they know how how bad I'm I've been the last

few months. Probably not. But >> yeah. Yeah. You need you need to tell your people that love you.

>> Yeah. cuz the the book that I read and the book that you read says we take care of widows.

>> Okay? So, give your give your give your congregation and your pastor the opportunity to do what they're called to do. >> Okay? And Ramsay's going to do that, too. Ramseay's going to set you up with a Ramsey coach free of charge, sit with

you, help you put together your budget, and then coach you. And then also hold you accountable. That means they're going to be mean to you and make you do it. You're going to freaking do it.

Okay. >> Yes. >> And Mel, Mel, listen. This is really doable.

And I I want to just throw a number at you. Not that you have to take on you, but I just want to show you something. If you uh were to make an additional $2,000 a month and you put every nickel on that towards this debt, you're talking about getting out of this in a year.

the start of this call, you can actually knock this out. And you've had horrible change thrust upon your life by losing your husband, but you're still here and

your kiddos are still here. And this this this is not going to be fun getting a budget and cutting out credit cards and not relying. It's not going to be fun. But you've already had a horrible fun than the hell you're sitting in right now. >> That's exactly right. You can get through this. I just want you to hear that you can actually get out of this.

>> Yeah. This is very, very doable and you hang on. We're going to put our arms around you and help you make sure you do it. >> You get on the phone with a Ramsey coach as soon as you get hooked up with one.

Sit down with them. They're going to take we're going to take care of you and we're going to make sure you get on that every dollar budget and stay on it. And you let your pastor and your community know where you are and that you they may not need to give you money. They may just need to love you.

>> That's okay. I'm not saying you're a charity case. I don't really think you are. But if they want to give you some money and put towards this wouldn't make me mad, but depends on the congregation, how they how they work and all that.

But I mean, more than anything, they just need to love you. >> That's right. >> It's, you know, you you don't need to do this by yourself. Life is not good to man be alone, you know, when you do these things together.

>> Dave, you picked up on something and she broke when you said it and you were right. Um, you you mentioned the word shame.

oneon-one on the air.

How does shame hurt us in times like this when we're trying to jump out of debt and and because you you've experienced it personally. Just talk about shame. >> It's the great lie from the pit of hell is what it is. It makes you people when

they get in a situation like that when you're broke and you can't pay your bills, you think and you screwed up. You think you're the only one, >> right? And it turns out if you've got your act together, that's when you're the only one, right? Most people are

broke and out of control. Most people don't have their crap together. 78% of Americans say they live paycheck to paycheck. That's eight out of 10 houses on your street are broke and out of control. So don't let anybody whisper in your ear, call the devil, and say you're not worthy because you're broken out of control. You're just a normal person.

Normal just sucks. That's all. You don't want to be normal. Normal sucks bad. So

the it's the great thing that I I used to think when I went broke I was the only one on the planet earth that was that stupid. And when I started telling my story, it's like everybody's like, "Yeah, me too. Me too. Me too. Me too.

Me too." It's like everybody raised their hand and said, "I've been I've done stupid. I was stupid. I went broke too, Dave. I went broke in real estate just like you." I kept hearing it over and over and over now for 30 years. I've heard it everywhere. Normal is this. You just don't want to be normal. That's the trick. [Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Victoria in Texas. My 14-year-old son wants to allocate some of his earned money to online gambling. He says everyone, and this is in all caps, at school does it.

Please help me explain to him why it is 100% wrong.

>> How old is your son? your your youngest.

>> My youngest is 17. I got a 17 and a 19.

So, I will answer it as if they came to me and said, "Dad, everyone is doing it." Uh, first I'd start with, "I can't

help but my hear my nanny's voice right now." He used to say to us, "If everyone's jumping off of a bridge, would you do it, too?" You know, that's just old school, you know. And I'd start with that. Then I would say, "All right, let's look at gambling." And I actually would come to it with numbers. I'm a little bit of a data geek. And so I would actually go pull real numbers on this particular type of uh online game.

Let's say it's sports, okay? And I would show the rates of success on this and

let the numbers talk for you to some degree. Second, um uh I would explain

gambling as a whole and how it does not pay off. And uh and and I would say uh

just because they live in your house, if they're going to do something that you are philosophically or spiritually or whatever you want to say, opposed to uh what I what I would tell them, my son, is if you're going to do that and and you're going to uh go around me and and

and not honor the advice I'm giving you and do something so stupid, uh then you are not going to receive these blessings from me. Now, that may be too harsh, Dave. You may disagree with that, but I I would take a pretty strong stance after I've made the numbers case and and

and make it very clear. I don't believe in this. I think this is foolish and this is against the values of my home and therefore there are going to be consequences if you do this. And then they got to learn the hard way. >> Yeah.

Everyone at school that is male and 14 is looking

at pornography.

Not everyone is gambling.

>> That's a good point. >> He's lying. He's overstating. He's being

a 14-year-old using hyperbole. Okay. Uh

and 14 and 15 year olds are interesting beasts.

They're very interesting. I raised a few of them at our house with teenagers. We were we went with the uh Andy Andrews approach that we are not trying to raise great kids. we are trying to raise kids who become great adults. And so at that

stage of their development, the process that Sharon and I used was pretty simple because inside of every 14-year-old, there are two people, a 34 year old and

a four-year-old.

And so I would ask them, "Which one am I speaking to?" Cibil, y'all don't remember Cybil with multiple personalities. It's an old show from the 70s. Okay. But yeah, which one am I speaking to? to the four-year-old or the 14-year-old? If I'm speaking to the four-year-old, I'm simply going to tell you what to do and you're going to mind

because I'm older than you and I can make another one that looks just like you. You will behave.

Period. You will do exactly what I say for your own good because I love you. I

don't care if you have a feeling. It doesn't matter to me. You're simply going to do what I say. If you're four years old, that's how we deal with it.

Now, I'll be gentle and kind, but at the end of the day, I'm in freaking charge.

You're not. The inmates don't run the asylum. I'm bigger than you. I have more power than you. You're simply going to mind me for your own good. You're not going to play in the street. You're not going to touch hot stoves. You're not jumping off of waterfalls. You're four.

You're not driving cars. You're four.

We're not having a negotiation with a four-year-old. However, if you want to be an adult and sit here and talk about this, I will talk to you like an adult instead of a four-year-old. If that's the case, then I would do exactly what Ken's saying. Here's the data. Since the

internet opened, when I started this show, people used to call me with addictions all the time.

>> When we started doing financial coaching in 1992, we've been dealing with addicts ever since. 100% of addicts have money problems.

There's no exceptions.

That's the nature of being an addict.

Okay? When I started, addiction was

alcohol and drugs.

The number one addiction in America today being treated as pornography

online has exploded it. It's huge. Porn

online makes more money than all professional sports put together. In America today, it's vastly profitable

and it's everywhere. It's ubiquitous.

Keeping a 14-year-old away from porn, if they have a phone, is impossible

if they have connection to the internet.

And it is the fastest growing addiction.

It's destroying the sexual function of

young men for an entire generation.

The second and we see them in our office every day here where they've lost everything.

They've lost their families. They've lost their homes. They've lost their jobs. They've lost their careers because they're addicted. Just like when they were doing cocaine. Same thing. And son, this is the truth. And son, here's the other truth. The second fastest growing addiction in America is online gambling.

Do you think DraftKings can afford all of those ads? Because everyone that bets on DraftKings won.

No, they can afford all those ads cuz everyone that bets on DraftKings loses.

That's why the bookie always wins. The

house always wins. Period. It's a

statistical fact. It's how gambling works. And if you're so stupid that you

don't understand that, then you can understand this. Gambling is attacks on people who can't do math.

Walk into the lobby of the Bellagio.

Walk into the lobby of the MGM Grand and you will see some of the greatest architecture.

You'll see light fixtures that cost millions of dollars. You and it's all built on house money. You people gave them the money to build it.

That's how it works. It's a mathematical fact. So son, if you're 14, I'm going to explain these facts to you. And so I

don't want you to be involved in it. By the way, honey, I'm not involved in online porn and I'm not involved in online gambling. I sadly spoke with a 32-year-old the other day that's run up $600,000 in sports betting.

>> He makes 180 a year. He's going to lose

his marriage and his two little babies and his beautiful wife are going to leave. And there's nothing he can do about it cuz he can't stop himself. He's addicted. So, why would I let someone that I love be engaged in that?

Sweetheart, I love you. There's no chance I'm going to let you be engaged in things that will destroy your life.

By the way, you're not doing doing cocaine either, even if everyone's doing it. By the way, you're not doing crack either. Even if everyone's doing it. By the way, you're not going to drive 110 miles an hour and act like you're Speed Racer or something out here because everyone's doing it. You're going to do things in this house because I love you

that benefit you. This does not benefit

you. And so you're not doing it. Now, if

I can convince you and persuade you as an adult, I will persuade you as an adult like I just did. >> Yeah. >> Here's some data. Uh here we go. UC San Diego new study. 96% of over 700,000

online gamblers, that's a big sample size, 96% lost their money. Uh That's

all of them. >> Yeah. >> I mean, nobody wins.

>> You want to play the 4% game, it just doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense. >> What that makes you is an idiot, >> right? >> And that's what >> 96%. >> Yeah. If you want to be an idiot, if you want to join the 96% of losers, that's how I talk to a teenage kid. >> I get entertainment from it. >> That's the That's the last Yeah.

Whatever. >> Yeah. You work all week and you get entertaining. You get entertainment from losing the money that you worked all week for. At those rates, you might as well buy a dog and go mine for gold. Get

yourself a pan. >> So, the deal is I'm going to try to convince you. You're not doing it, but

I'm going to try to convince you and persuade you if you're willing to talk this through with an adult with me, and you're going to understand why you're not doing it. If you don't want to do that and you want to just throw a fit and be a four-year-old, I'll just simply tell you, you're not doing it. We don't do we don't negotiate with idiots. Not when they live in my house.

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We'll help you get going. Will is with us in Ohio. Hi Will, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

So, uh, until about a year ago, we were, uh, living in a single wide trailer to save money, pay off debt, and we paid off about 60 grand in debt. We bought some land to hopefully build a house on in the future. But then we found black mold in our trailer and had to move out.

So, now we're renting and between the rent and the land payment, that's destroying our savings and we're we're kind of struggling here. So, I'm wondering, should we sell this land that we're we plan on for the future and want

um and keep renting to to pay other debts off or you know, we we've got some

family that's offered us land to build on for free, but houses are so dagone expensive now. I I'm not sure what to do.

>> Okay. Um what's your household income, sir? >> About 120 grand. Okay.

>> How long you've been married? 10 years.

>> Okay. All right. What's the land worth?

>> Uh, it's worth about double what we owe on it right now. It's worth about 120.

>> And you owe 60.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

All right. Um, what would happen if you

sold the land and took the 60,000 in cash that would be in your pocket and use that as a down payment on a house?

>> It'd be a heck of a down payment. Yeah.

Um, just it's real good for commutes. We like the land. I think it's an emotional connection to it, you know. Uh but there are there are some other houses in the area we can look at.

>> Yeah. I mean, you just buy a house and

and then, you know, later on do a land deal, right? After you get after you get some things going, get the house going up in value, start getting it paid off, you make good money, but you're kind of trapped right now. You can't really afford to build on it, >> right? >> And you say it's destroying your savings with the payment and the rent.

And so putting those two together and a down payment off the land and that buys a house, it makes a lot more sense as a as a first step. It's not necessarily a permanent decision. You know, it's always funny when you're buying a house.

>> Yeah. >> That's why people say stuff like, "I bought my forever home," >> which is a load of crap because it's never your forever home. There's only one forever home. That's heaven.

>> And other than that, you're going to move. So this idea, I'm never moving again, is that's just not true. Okay?

Unless you're 85, you're probably moving again. So, um, you know, and you may even be moving again there to the nursing home, but anyway, the, uh, so something's going on. Anyway, you're moving again. So, any It's not a permanent deal. Buy you a house, sit there five, six years, save up some more money, take the equity you make on that property with the equity you put into it, buy and start talking about building a house and buying you a piece of land at some point. But, um, you know, it's called a starter house, right?

Yeah.

>> What's your total debt?

>> Uh, we've got about 100k in debt. Uh, 20 on a student loan, 20 on a car, and 60 on the land.

>> Okay. All right. So, you got that 40 in debt. Good. Good call, Ken. I drove past that. I went straight to the real estate deal. Yeah. I need you to clear that stuff, too, and that makes this discussion harder. But, um, I'm

>> What's the car situation? You $20,000 debt on the car. Is it worth more than you owe? >> Uh, no. It's It's right It's probably worth right about that. It's fairly new.

>> What's the car payment on it?

>> Um, 400 bucks a month.

>> Okay. Um,

yeah. I It again, the way we answer questions here is what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I'd sell the car and the land. >> And I'd take five I'd take five grand, go buy me a a car to get back and forth to work. I start talking about buying a house and get these student loans paid off. And um you know, now we only got 40k to put down, not 60. But anyway, um

uh but we're still doing a starter house deal. We're going to do a 15-year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth year take-home pay. And you don't have a payment in the world then, dude.

>> And not a student loan payment, not a car payment, not a house payment, not anything. And uh at this point, I mean, not land payment, not anything. And and you're going to put 40k down. And um yeah, I'm going to go buy a house.

That's what I'm doing uh in that situation. And then I'm gonna the emotional tide of the land. I get I've got a a piece of ground over here not far from where I'm sitting right now that's um I go over there and shoot guns, ride four-wheelers and everything with the grandkids, all that stuff. And I love that piece of dirt. Uh I have an emotional connection to it. I understand what you're talking about. I don't want to sell it. Um but you know what's the

best thing for my family long term? you

know, that's a lot of money to shoot guns. So, um, you got to think about

what you're doing and what what what is more important than something else in my case. I'm not saying that's what you're doing with it, obviously. But, okay, Chris is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Chris. How are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. Um, I have got about

45 to $50,000 in various debts, about I

think about 15,000 in credit card debts and about 22,000 or so in student loans

and then a couple of other things. And I

have been contacted by this debt

consolidation or debt reduction uh

company and run away.

run away quickly. What's your What's your household income?

>> About 25,000 a year.

>> 25,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> How many hours a week are you working? >> Social Security. >> Oh, you're on social security. How old are you? >> Yeah. 75.

How have you got a student loan debt?

>> Well, I was uh I went to this uh

community college about I started about

10 or 12 years ago and then um at one

point I just I I was a little short of money so I signed up for some student loans um for a total of about $20,000.

And then >> what what did you do used to do for a living before you retired?

>> Computer programming. I mean, I'm not actually I'm looking for a job doing that. >> Yeah. >> Uh again, >> I think that would be helpful. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Uh because I enjoy doing it and it pays good. >> Yeah. >> Um >> no, here's the thing. The stu the debt consolidation doesn't work because it doesn't change anything except the interest rates. Your student loan interest rate is so small it doesn't matter. Your credit card debt's so small, you're going to pay it off fast anyway once you get this new job.

And so that's why I'm saying run away.

Uh because they're making you a promise that if you just take this pill, everything will be okay. No, you don't need to take the pill. You need to just make everything okay. So, and the way we work that is we list your debts, smallest to largest. We pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And let's do something to get some income coming into this house. And um

approaching it that way. Um, but credit

cards or student loans as you approach your 70s are uh Yeah, those got to be cleared up because it's taking all the fun out of your life. I bet that just no fun at all. Yeah, Dave, you and I were talking about this during a commercial break several shows ago. We were on together and we were we were seeing what what the call was coming up next and I said to you I said, "I'll bet you this lady because she was in her 70s got a student loan when she was in her early 50s and it came true." Now, I've taken this call a lot and I've seen it a lot where, you know, people would call me and on the old Ken Cole show and they'd say, "Hey, I tried to transition at 50 or whatever." And I just want to say this, we're anti, you know, this idea of just going for a student loan just to get a degree without any kind of focus as to why we're getting it.

there is no scenario by which you should ever take a student loan. I I I'm going to go that hardcore on that.

>> Let me go hardcore. If you're breathing,

there is no scenario in which you should take out a student loan. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But just what is happening? We're seeing this happen a lot where people think they're going to change their life midstream. Yeah. >> With a student loan >> or downstream, either one. Yeah, >> that's possible, too. >> I like what you did there. I see what you did there. [Music]

[Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create

actual amazing relationships. Ken

Coleman Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author and host of the Ramsay Network's hit Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today. Be sure and check that show out. The phone number here is8255225.

Sarah's in San Francisco. Hi Sarah. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, uh, I have kind of a unique dual job situation. Um, I'm a property manager and a teacher. So, basically what that means is I live at a property and I get to live here for free in exchange for

doing housework. You name it, I've probably done it. Dog care, pet care, laundry. I mean, I designed a golf cart one time. It's really random. Um, so I

don't have to pay rent, which is incredible. I've been doing this for about 4 years for really really affluent people. But um the household that I'm currently with, there's um a lot of secrets that I unfortunately have to like carry with me of really terrible things that are happening. Um and I just don't know how to weigh like should I leave and start paying rent somewhere or should I stay and just kind of like push down the gross feelings and continue saving money.

>> Wow. Life is too short to be feeling

gross because of somebody else's behavior.

>> Yeah. >> So, yeah, you've got to leave. Now, the question is, how do we leave smart?

>> Yeah. >> So, what are you going to do with your life now? >> Now that you don't work any there anymore, what are you going to do?

>> I mean, I just I feel like I could save so much money for a down payment on a house if I if I stayed since I'm fully >> No, no, no. We've already established you're leaving.

Okay.

>> Cuz they're are they doing illegal stuff? >> No, they're just like cheating on each other and like stealing alcohol from me.

It's just really like bad.

>> Stealing alcohol from you?

>> Yeah. I And then they blamed me for it

about a year ago. It's just >> blamed you for stealing your alcohol.

>> They So they they drink a lot. That's They're trust fund kids. All they do is just like drink and party all the time.

And about a year ago, they thought I was stealing alcohol until I found out one of them was an alcoholic. >> Oh, okay. >> Sarah, if you're representing your position in a court of law, and Dave and I are judges, you're not doing a really good job. You keep giving us multiple reasons as to why you should be running from these spoiled brats.

Listen, the amount of money you're saving is not worth the toll it's taking on your life. True or false?

>> This is probably true. >> Well, then there you go. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Okay. Now, what are you gonna do with your life, 23 year old?

>> I mean, I can move really anywhere I want. Like, I'm a teacher, so I can move wherever. >> Do you want to stay as a teacher? That's what we're trying to figure out. >> No, she she's a caretaker.

>> No, she's a teacher and a property manager. >> Oh, you teach out inside the home or outside the home? >> Outside the home. Just like a public school teacher. >> So, you have you have a teaching certificate? >> Yeah. >> A four-year degree?

>> Yes. >> And it's You're still currently teaching if I understood you correctly, right?

>> Yes. You have any money at all?

>> Um I the only debt I have is my car loan

$5,000.

>> I have like >> Yeah, like six grand in my savings and like Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Leave.

Load up the car. Load up the car and move. What city do you want to be a teacher in? Cuz you're leaving and it's not San Francisco. I'll help you.

>> It's not San Francisco. >> Where what city do you want? Where did you grow up? I grew up in Oregon, which I'm sorry I would never go back there, but >> Okay, that's fine. We've established one state. You're not going to. Two states.

>> Yeah, we got 48. >> The state of San Francisco and the state of Oregon. You are not going to those two states. Okay.

>> Now, where else are we going? Cuz you you you're 23, have wheels, have $6,000.

We're going to move and get a one-bedroom apartment, and be a teacher.

Tada.

>> Just like that. >> Just like that.

You're like a free person and everything and this is America, not Russia. It's awesome.

>> Where do you want to live? Where's your next adventure?

>> Even though it saves me a bunch of money. >> Where's your next adventure? You're leaving.

>> Or go do this again somewhere else, but not for alcoholics. Go to the state where you want to be. >> You're going to end up getting sued or put in jail for something one of them do. >> Yeah. You know evil is in the house. You can smell it. It's in the air. Get out of there, girlfriend.

Now >> go >> now. Where are you going? What city? I want to know what's your next adventure that makes you smile. Where have you always wanted to live?

>> Gosh. Uh, Florida's pretty great.

>> Head over load up the truck and head to Beverly, kid. Yeah. No per no income tax. State income tax there. That's great. >> Florida's good to their teachers, too.

>> Yeah. And you can property manage for sane people in Florida if you want to save up money for a house. You keep coming back to how much money you're saving as if you can't reproduce this somewhere else in a much better situation. You've become a prisoner to

this situation because you're only looking at how much money you're saving as if you can't do it anywhere else.

>> That's true. >> I know. It's why I said it. >> Okay. So, here's the deal. Okay.

I want you out of there before Labor Day.

You have 27 days. Ready, set, go.

>> This is your This is your old uncle Dave. Old ugly uncle Dave who loves you

telling you, "Ready, set, go. Set yourself free.

You are free. Leave. Let these fine

people know that by the end of the month we're going to load up the stuff and go.

And if they want you to go sooner, oh good. Oh, good.

Get in the car, put your crap in the car. You can put all your crap in one car, can't you?

>> Yeah, basically. >> Load up the car and drive to Florida.

What city in Florida do you want to live in? >> I like NASCAR. Daytona is pretty cool.

>> All right. Daytona Daytona is a neat little town >> and affordable, by the way. >> It's a neat little town. >> Yeah. Head on over there, kiddo. Not that far from Bokeh, and there's some rich crazies there, too.

>> That's a good point. Who's your favorite NASCAR driver of all time?

>> Oh, I've been watching a lot of documentaries lately, but I just got to go with uh probably Kyle Bush.

>> Okay. So, I want you to channel your inner Kyle Bush >> and drive from San Francisco. Yeah.

>> Under the speed limit. We're not trying to get you to break the speed limit. >> He's aggressive. I want you to go all the way to Daytona. >> Yeah. >> And when the sun's coming up, by the way, at Daytona you can still drive on the beach. I want you to drive out on the beach and sit there and smile and go, I am 23, have money in my pocket. I

can be and do anything I want in the greatest land the world has ever known.

I don't have to put up with a couple of cheating, drunk trust fund morons, and I'm gone. >> Mhm.

>> How's that feel?

>> It feels good. It's scary, but it's scary. It's scary, but it's an awesome scary. It's like bungee jumping.

>> Go.

>> Yeah, >> we're pushing you off the bridge. I don't know if you felt it or not. >> Yeah, >> this was our answer 20 seconds in. We were into this answer 20 seconds into the call. Now you're ready to do it.

>> Go do it. >> We love you and we want you to have a great life. >> Yeah. >> You're not going to have a great life staying where you are. As a matter of fact, your life's going to go downhill pretty quick if you stay there. You know, in your deepest inside, God's spirit inside of you is telling you to get away from the evil.

He's telling you, listen to him. And

then we told you too, listen to us. Then there's the fact that two trust fund babies are stealing your alcohol and blaming you for it.

>> What how bad is that?

[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

And there's a lot of opinions out there about the real estate world.

If you don't believe me, just uh open up your social media. There's a lot of opinions. And opinions are like armpits.

Everybody's got them. And most of them stink. They really don't know what they're doing. Everybody's got an idea.

Some everybody's got a course on TikTok.

Everybody's got something you can get into. Listen here. When you got all this drama, one thing you know about drama, here's how you beat drama. Facts. Facts

are your friends. If you want to know the facts about real estate, you can

simply go to our website. We've got all the market trends on there. You can tell exactly what's going on and then you can make your decision. Are house prices going up? The answer is facts. Yes.

Not quickly, not a lot, but they are

going up. They've gone up every single month this year. That's a fact.

Interest rates are low.

The average 15-year fixed rate is 15 is

5.95 right now. In any stretch of

history, 6% or less has been considered a low interest rate. It's just tough for it to be a low interest rate when you're coming off of two and three.

And some of you still have a recent memory of that. So, it makes it feel like it's high. It ain't high. High is

14. High is 10, 12. This is not high.

So, you can start to figure this out and look at actual trends. Go to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes and we'll get you helped out. Colin is with us in Missouri. Hey Colin, what's up?

>> Well, uh, so my grandmother that I haven't really

talked to in years that's been estranged from my father and I'm recently estranged from him and all that. Uh, just recently offered the other day to pay off my credit card debt. Uh, never told her how much. Just told her I was going through your steps to get out of debt.

And uh, she said, "Oh, well, I'll help you so you don't got to pay interest. I'll pay off your credit cards for you. Pay me back." And I'm over here like, >> I don't feel comfortable taking money from her. >> I would take it if it was a gift, but it's not a gift.

>> Yeah, it's a loan. It's a loan.

>> No, thank you. I'll pass.

>> Yeah. >> So, aranged and aranged and aranged.

There's a lot of estranged going on in your family. The last thing you need to be doing is owing one of them money.

>> Yeah. And that's kind of how I felt. Not only just for the fact that um I'm not sure how tough she's going to be on uh

making me pay back this debt to her, but just I don't personally feel comfortable taking money for family. Well, I mean, if if she has $2 million and wants to give you $25,000 to pay off your credit card debt as a gift, we'll talk about it. That's fine. That's one thing. No strings attached. But you're this is not that. This is you loaning money. No, we do not loan money to family. We do not borrow money from family. You will change the quality of the relationship.

And you guys have trouble with quality of relationship in your family anyway.

>> Yeah. >> Don't add to the charact. I mean, you you've actually reestablished a relationship with this lady that you have hardly ever known. And and don't ruin that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you still have doubts about this?

>> Uh I mean, I never really considered for more than like 3 seconds for Okay.

>> Well, then your voice sounds like you're like, "Yeah, well, maybe." >> That's what I'm picking up on. Are you afraid to tell her no thanks?

kind of knew it. I knew it.

>> Yeah, but here's the deal. >> My parents, >> let me help you through >> I'm sorry to cut you off. Let me Let me help you with this. Okay.

You just need to say, "Grandmother," or whatever you call her, um, I really appreciate that, but I I need to take care of this myself. I got into this mess. I need to get myself out of this mess. Dave and his team are going to help me get out of this mess and I'm reestablishing this relationship with you and I just don't think it's a good idea for me to be in debt to you when I'm already in debt over here.

>> All right.

>> And by the way, let me say this and I want Dave to weigh in here. I She may not like that, but I doubt it. I think she's making this gesture because I think she wants some reparation. She wants to repair and I think she's trying to make a good gesture here and I think she'll be okay with that. Dave, do you see a problem with that approach?

>> No, it's the only way I would do it. I think you just go in kindness and say this is me. It's not you, it's me.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I can tell I need to pay off

my debt because of the way I feel and the guy I look at in the mirror, Granny.

But thank you, Granny. You're very sweet. I appreciate the offer. It's very kind of you. It's kind of hard to pass up, but I'm going to >> because I need to do this for me.

>> What Ken said and just blame it on you.

And that's the truth, by the way, too.

>> But the last thing you need is weirdness between family that already has its old boatloads of weirdness.

>> Aranged and aranged and aranged and then not aranged and then aranged. There's a lot of strange. And so, yeah, just stay stay away from it. And that's a you know, don't don't muddle this up. Um,

so, um, yeah, and

>> I think she'll receive that. Well, I I >> And if she doesn't, then that's another signal matter. That's right. >> That's another signal that you shouldn't have done it. >> Yeah. >> The last thing you want to do is be, you know, owing money to people that get weird when you start talking about money. So, it's a bad idea.

>> Megan's in Vermont. Hey, Megan. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much. Um, so my husband

and I are on Baby Step 2. We started off at $200,000 in debt. We're at $172,000

in debt as of now. I need some help with

my car situation. So, I'm a road warrior. I do 60,000 m a year, and my

car is unfortunately out of service.

It's It's not fixable at this point. So, I'm borrowing my mother-in-law's extra car for the time being. But I'm wondering with the amount of mileage that I do and how much I'm on the road, what is the best way for me to go about purchasing a a new vehicle that's going to be reliable?

>> You guys don't have any money?

>> No, we're throwing everything in our debt. >> And you're down to $1,000. You're doing it the way we teach.

>> Yes. >> What's your household income?

>> It's 250,000.

>> Excellent. Okay. All right. That's good news. What do you do?

>> I am a home repair salesman.

>> Okay. Excellent. Okay, cool. All right.

Um, how long can you use this borrowed car?

A month, two months.

>> I um probably six weeks. I'm on week two

right now. >> Okay. Another month then. Okay.

>> Yes. >> All right. Um well, I'm going to tell you what to do. Uh, and then I'm going to tell you what to do long term, okay?

And how to think about this is here's here's the thing, okay? So, first thing I would do is answer your question. Let's let the let the pressure off.

>> Um, I would stop your debt snowball

and save up $10,000 in one month and pay

cash for a $10,000 car.

>> Okay. >> All right. And what you're looking for is a car that is ugly and low miles and

has a lot of life left in it. An old Camry, an old Honda, Accord. Um maybe an old Chevy of some

kind. Um but that's what you're looking for. Something that's got a lot of life left in it, but it's not pretty. Cuz no

one buys home repairs from you based on your car.

>> That's true. >> Okay. Now then, let's talk about a principle for road warriors. For everyone listening, including you, whatever you Let's pretend you've got unlimited money and you're out of debt.

We're a couple of months or years down the road from this discussion.

I think it's fair to say that when you put $60,000 60,000 m a year on a car, whatever you are driving, you are destroying its value.

Agreed.

>> Absolutely. >> Miles destroys a car's value. That's a fact. That's a statistical fact. Okay.

So, a 2-year-old car with 120,000 miles on it, piece of crap. All right. A foury old car with 240,000 miles on it has got no value. You've rung all the value out of it.

So, what the question is, how and when you destroy the value of a car, you're destroying the value of what you paid for. And so, from a business perspective, what you want to drive is the least expensive car that will get the job done. Now, let's define get the job done. It's got to get there, number one.

Number two, it's got to get there with reliability. And number three, it's got to get there with a reasonable level of comfort. So, you're not driving a freaking Dodge Neon. You'll be in the chiropractor's office.

Okay.

the cheapest car that's reliable and

reasonably comfortable? Cuz I'm in it all the time. And that's a 12 to $15,000

car. And I don't care what you're making or how rich you are. That's all you ought to be driving. Cuz if you buy a $50,000 car, a $100,000 Escalade, you're

going to destroy $100,000 in 3 years.

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[Music]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtree stage, Lee and Liz are with us.

Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Great. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. Where do you live? >> Tampa, Florida. >> Oh, fine. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $260,781.51.

>> Love it. How long did that take? Just about six years to the day.

>> Cool. And your range of income during that time? >> We started at 181,000. Our best year was

215,000 and then I became a stay-at-home mom when our son was born and we ended up at about 133,000.

>> Cool. Very cool. Good for y'all. What do y'all do for a living? >> Uh Lee is a police officer and I was a certified nurse midwife and now I'm a >> stay at home mom. I love it. Very cool.

Good. Good. Good. So 6 years 261. Did you pay off your house? >> We did. We did. I love it. Looking at weird people. Very cool, y'all. So,

what's the house worth? >> The house is worth $512,000.

>> Very cool. And how much is in your nest egg, your 401ks and stuff? >> About 570. >> Ah, millionaires. Woohoo. Baby steps

millionaires. I'm proud of you. How old are you two? >> 36. >> 36-y old millionaires in Tampa, Florida with a paid for house. Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to Lee and Liz. Way to go, man.

>> Thank you. That's so fun. So fun.

Excellent. So, did somebody give you like $300,000?

>> No. >> No. No. You just went and got money and lived on less than you make and all that. So, uh, six years ago, tell me the story. What you How did you get introduced to this Ramsay stuff?

>> Well, we had been married and in our house for about a year and a half and

we were making a lot of money. We were making extra mortgage payments. we were investing, doing a lot of different things all at once, but didn't have any shared goal or or vision. And then Lee

found the podcast and listened to the

audio book of the Total Money Makeover one night during one of his night shifts and came home and shared it with me. And I was really concerned that I I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, but I wasn't sure if we would be able to do it with the mortgage payment. And so, we got on board. We were we were doing some dumb stuff like chasing credit card points and paying it off every payday. So, we quit doing that.

Got on a written budget and started attacking the mortgage and and the bulk of it was paid off in the first three years. And then when I stayed home and um left my my, you know, six-f figureure job, >> it slowed down, but even still, we we surpassed our goal by about 13 months.

>> Wow. Good for you. Well done. So your

big motivator, your why was for you to be home. >> That was our plan all along.

>> That's why we scratched, clawed, and did all the things we did, right? >> Yes, sir. Overnights, night shifts, overtime, extra duty, whatever we could pick up at the time, we just did it.

There were some days where somebody was always asleep and we would cook >> or we were both at work. >> Or we both at work, we would high-five and then, you know, one of us would leave and the other one would leave shortly thereafter. So, we just worked >> all so we'd be home. That's a good It's a good why.

>> Yes, sir. >> It's a good reason. You got to have something that is bigger than the pain to make you go do it cuz you sacrifice deep. >> It's hard to believe that as a police officer for 13 years, 10 of that was on night shift or swing shift.

So, here we are.

>> No sir. >> You're a millionaire. >> Yes. >> So, you get to work the shift you want to work. >> Yes, sir. And you've been there long enough, you probably do get to choose now. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. I love it. Very good. Very good.

And you got the shift you want, which is mommy shift. >> 247. >> There you go, babe. I love it. That's good. Very good. So, I want I think a lot of people listening and watching going, "How in the world did you walk away from a six-figure job and still

finish?" I want you two to answer this.

I think some people going, "How'd you do it?" So, how'd you still finish ahead of schedule when you lost that big income?

>> The grace of God. I think um anytime we

were we were worried it was like the budget just made sense by the end of the month. Um and and

I had paid off some of my nursing school loans before we got married and then went to grad school debtree. So if you're a nurse out there thinking you want to become a nurse practitioner, you can absolutely do it without going into debt. Um and that helped a lot knowing

that anything that I earned was going towards the mortgage.

Yeah, there will be some months where we would we have a goal the to pay it to

pay down the mortgage and then we would surpass that. We would say, "Okay, let's do X." And we would do double that because of just either the paychecks would come in or just all the work like I forgot how much we worked. And then the paycheck would show up two weeks later on a Friday and you would go, "Well, I guess we're doing more." >> By the way, signs you know you're working really hard is you forgot how much you made.

That's a great sign. You're like, "Wow, I actually worked a lot last month." >> And and when we first got started, we were like, "Man, every dollar is not for us. We have an irregular income. We get paid every two weeks. It's not lining up on the the monthly budget." So, if you're out there and struggling with the same thing, just just stick with it.

Give it a couple months. Keep practicing. keep plugging away and chunk up those big balances because when you're doing a big mortgage or a consolidated loan or something like that, every year we would look at our plan and say by the end of the year we want x number on that balance sheet on

New Year's Eve and some years we made it. One year I totaled our car so we had to cash flow it and we didn't make it that month.

>> One year we made it by July.

>> Yeah. So >> that's fun. >> So uh how's it feel? paid for house.

You're millionaires. You're 36 years old. >> It's pretty cool. Um it's it's surreal

still. >> Was it worth it? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Because you guys went crazy for a while.

>> Yeah. >> It's awesome.

>> Yeah. Cuz people always ask us, you know, I don't know, man. I think I want to live my life. Well, you could do anything you want for the rest of your life now. >> And we also we also did live life, too.

I mean, being on baby steps four, five, and six and doing those simultaneously and following the program, we were still able to cash flow home repairs, go on vacation and do the things you talk about when you're on those baby steps.

And so we we did it and just stuck to

the plan. Pretty cool. Was that the breakers in the picture?

>> The dances are >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thought I couldn't tell.

Just got a quick look on it when it flashed in front of my peripheral vision there, but yeah. Wow. Good for y'all.

Nice vacation. Good, good, good for you.

Wow. What do you tell people? The key to

being a millionaire by the time you're 36 is >> being consistent, being content, and

working hard together, even if you're not seeing a lot of each other.

>> Yeah. >> Also, the tracking your net worth was big for us because yes, you can see some of the debt going away on the house, but then you would also we would also see our net worth rise. And so and having a goal, we would like to have X by the end of the year. And once again, sometimes >> because you're simultaneously paying off the house and putting money into your 401k.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Because you're doing baby step four, five, six. Yeah.

Which is what you're supposed to do.

>> And it and it helps me because I'm the natural spender. So it helps me to kind of see the end. It was hard in the beginning for me to see $260,000.

So I was like, "Well, I'll just work hard at the end." And she told me, "No, you should work hard now because it will in the end it will literally fall off a cliff." >> Yeah. >> And that's what it did. >> Yeah. >> Wow. I love it. You just learned to say yes, dear. That's such a great example there. >> Uh what did you guys learn about each other in your marriage as a result of this serious commitment?

>> I think how much we are willing to sacrifice for each other and and how much humility we we can have. Uh, and

just choosing that over and over again.

>> Yeah, I'm proud of y'all and I know your parents are here bragging on you and cheering you on. I got to meet them earlier and you brought the kiddos with you. Bring them up. Let's introduce them with their ages and names. The reason for doing this, they need the t-shirts that say I'm the why. I'm why they did

this. Oh my goodness. So, names and

ages. >> We have uh John Edwin who's uh two and a half. >> Mhm. >> And Maggie who's uh 11 months. Ah, so

they're too young to even know how big a hero their parents are. You're old man and old lady Vanderbilt. You got the whole thing started right here. That's awesome, man. I'm proud of y'all. Well done. Very well done. You changed everything.

Very cool. Very cool. Very cool. All right, Lee and Liz. 261,000 paid off in

six years, including putting money in their 401k. They are now baby steps millionaires at 36. Count it down. Let's

hear a debtree scream.

>> Three, two, one. We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

Woohoo.

>> Love it. Aren't they fun? What rock

stars, man? Absolutely amazing.

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Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 30:21.

Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you saying, "This is the way. Walk in

it." JP Morgan said, "The first step towards getting somewhere is to decide you're not going to stay where you are." That would be true. There we go. Tyler is in Reno, Nevada. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Um, so I'm just going to just uh kind of jump right into it. Um, recently lost my job back in the middle of July. Uh we used our our emergency

safety fund that we had to make sure bills are covered and such. My question is uh >> you used your emergency fund for what?

>> For uh like our other utility bills and

such to catch up on. We were a little bit behind.

And so my question is um my 401k from my

previous job now since I I got fired. Do

I withdraw my 401k to cover the other

debt that we have?

>> No. >> Or should I not?

>> No. If you withdraw money from a 401k

before 59 and a half, you're going to be charged a 10% penalty plus your tax

rate. And so you're going to be charged the equivalent of about 40% interest. So

Dave, would I borrow money at 40% interest to pay off my debt? Of course, the answer would be no. So mathematically that is suicide. So how's

the new job hunt going?

>> It's going good. Um, right now I I

currently serve for the Army National Guard. So my leadership was able to put me on orders to keep income coming for my family and I which thanks to them that it it is helping a little bit. Um other than that the the biggest thing that is wanting to was wanting to do the

withdraw is our car loan. Um which we

still have a pretty good amount of balance and I just wasn't sure whether >> What's the balance on your car?

Uh about $7,000 left.

>> That's not bad. Okay. So, what does the They put you on orders. What does that how much money does that amount to?

>> Uh every two weeks it's roughly 2,200.

>> Okay. >> Does that preclude you from doing anything else?

>> Uh no. I mean, I typically it's like a

um full-time job with the Army National Guard, which the orders is only like

three month for 3 months only.

>> So, at the end of September, it's my last month that they will help me. And then from there, I I >> What Ken and I are trying to understand is they put you on 4,400 bucks a month, which is very nice. That's awesome. But you're going in and working every day at the Guard.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Oh, so you you have a full-time job until the orders run out in 3 months. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> So, you're going to go get a job, right, for the end of September? >> Yeah.

Yes. I I've actually applied for a few jobs. I'm just uh waiting to hear back.

Uh there is one in particular that I am hoping to uh get more than anything. Uh

cuz it's it's right around the corner from where we live and uh the pay rate

is actually pretty decent. that would help us keep afloat. I just wasn't sure to make a drastic move now or kind of hold off.

>> What What would be the drastic move?

>> The 401k with >> Oh, we've already established. No, we're not doing that. That's not a drastic move. That's a dumb move.

>> Okay. Now, >> what were you doing that got that that you where you were fired? What were what work? >> What happened?

Uh I was in a manufacturer warehouse and

had a forklift incident which bent a

pole and uh from there on I got

suspended from the job. Waited cuz they do like a the um the urination test and

breathalyzer just like you know normal policy job normally does. And uh from

there I was suspended, waited for about a week and a half and then when the time

came they called me say I was terminated from the incident and never really give me a more depth.

>> So there were drugs there were drugs in your system.

>> No, not at all.

>> Okay. So you're just ran a forklift into a pole and they don't do that from a safety perspective. They fired you.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Cool. What were you making?

>> Uh, I was making I mean total cuz I

worked a lot of overtime over there. So I was at around 77,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how long have you been driving a forklift?

>> Five and a half years. >> Okay. And one incident.

>> Yes. >> What happened? Give us a short version.

>> That's a little weird. >> Yeah. Just just one mistake. You weren't paying attention. What happened?

It simply was just a Yeah, it was simply just a mistake. I was just exiting out the uh rollup door at the half at the warehouse and checking my left and right as I normally do and as soon as I started accelerate, I just turned a little bit while looking at the same time and right into a pole from there on

suspended me and then ended up firing me. >> Well, the reason I'm digging into this is because you know there you can get paid really nicely and you were getting made uh you were making good money. I I would get back into that field if I could. I don't know what this thing is around the corner. That would be ideal.

But I would I would be looking at multiple options in that space where you had experience before. >> Yeah. If you have the ability to operate heavy equipment, there is a tremendous shortage of heavy equipment operators.

>> And so, you know, I'd be looking in the bulldozer backhoe world as well as the forklift world. Um there's a tremendous shortage. Mike Row, our friend from Dirty Jobs and I were talking about the other day. >> He said he's got one guy in uh Phoenix that would hire 22 people right now today, >> but he can't find them. >> Yep. >> That that have oper, you know, have experience and can uh you know, run a piece of equipment. In other words, that's the thing. So that that's what I'm looking for there.

>> And um so yeah, you just need to get the next thing lined up. As far as the 401k goes, Tyler, what you're going to do is get with a Smart Vesttor Pro. will go to ramseysolutions.com, click smartvester and sit down with the one there in Reno or one of the ones there in Reno and uh

they'll have the heart of a teacher and they'll show you how to roll it over from your old job into an IRA. There

will be zero taxes. You pick a couple of three mutual funds like we teach, four types of mutual funds, growth, growth, and income, aggressive growth, and international. And you roll it into that. You only have a $7,000 debt. Don't

borrow money at 40% interest, which is the effect of taking money out of your 401k and getting a 10% penalty plus tax rate. So, don't do it. Roll it over.

It's called a direct transfer rollover.

Do not have the old company send you the check. Have it go straight to the investment. They do not withhold. If they send it to you, they're required to withhold 20%. Now, you don't have 100% to roll over. It creates a problem. So,

um, get with your Smart Investor Pro today. Jump on that website today.

RamseySolutions.com.

Get your Smart Vtor. They'll help you do a do a direct transfer. Write that down.

Direct transfer rollover. But do it before HR sends you a check from that other place because you don't want them sending you a check. You want the check sent by direction of the new IRA

directly into the IRA. That's the direct part >> of this transfer. And the other thing I would challenge you with, Tyler, is you mentioned you were working some overtime, a lot of hours at this previous job. So, let's go.

You've got the National Guard paying you every hour you can work. I would set a goal to try to pay this 7,000 off uh before you're done with your guard duty this next mission. I think that's doable and it's certainly even if it's not, you're going to get a long way there. But you can do this with extra work selling stuff.

Uh no reason why you shouldn't be able to knock that seven grand out. >> Yeah.

wife is working. If not, she could be as well. So uh there's no reason for us to be have a shortage of money in this house. You're make enough uh with your guard duty and with whatever else you can do and then leaning into the next job and moving right ahead.

There's no reason for you to be behind on utilities again. So um changes your life when you stay in control of these things. Very, very good question, sir. Sorry you've been through that.

Sounds like you're going to be okay. might end up being a blessing. You might end up making more at the next gig.

They could put a little sticker on it says Tyler was here. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Heat.

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## 144. Stop Being Sick And Tired—Decide to Change! | December 8, 2025


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Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start [music] budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke, common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your

life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is alongside.

888-825-5225

is [music] the phone number for 888-825-5225.

Your money questions, Jade is ready to go. She stretched beforehand, I'm told.

>> I did. >> Got a little energy drink, so she'll help you on those. I'll assist. And then, Ramsey just did a new study, Jade,

and in my area of things on work, and we're finding that uh the two biggest areas of problems for folks in the workspace is burnout >> Uh-huh. and a lack of life balance around work. So, Are we going to talk about that today? >> If that is you, folks, you can call in, and I'll dive in on that.

So, there you go. Money, the burnout, the life balance issues as it relates to your professional life. They all tie in, by the way. >> I think you need to dive in regardless if anybody calls in.

>> those questions, and let's start with Lars in Eugene, Oregon.

you, sir? I am doing well. How are you, Ken?

>> Good. How can we help today?

Um I'm wondering what gazelle intensity looks like for me when I have massive debt and okay income and a pretty pretty

full family life where I feel very busy.

Mhm. >> Why don't you lay out the debt, and then we'll get into the family schedule.

Yeah, so I'm in 156,000 of debt. Vast majority student loans, plus about 4,400 left on a silly van payment.

Okay. So, other than the 4,400, is everything else student loans?

Yes. Okay. Okay, yeah, that feels scary.

$152,000, is that right?

156. Yes. Oh, 52 the loans, yeah.

>> 4,400 student loans, yeah. What kind of degree did you get?

I have a master's in math. In math, okay. What's that allow you to do? You teach at a university level?

Um I'm a I'm a data analyst. Okay. Okay.

And how long have you been at your current company?

1 month. Oh, good.

>> for a while before that. >> Okay, so this is a new job, and I'm guessing a raise with that?

Yes. Yes. Good. Okay. Feel rich making

75,000 a year now.

Okay, and what's your wife do?

She's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. All right. Now, let's talk about the um because your question is, what does gazelle intensity look like for me uh given all the family stuff. So, we've got a picture of the debt. What is the family stuff you're talking about? What's the schedule? What is what is the sense or the reality of what

is expected of you from a relational standpoint in the family?

>> Sure. Yeah, so I have two kids ages three and one and another on the way in March. Um and the oldest has cerebral palsy, so

she's always in different physical therapies and everything. Uh we we tried my wife working and doing daycare, but that just wasn't working with all of his needs, so I go work full-time and come home and try to help help around Cuz she's Describe Describe how your wife uh is

feeling or how she presents to you after you've been at work all day and she's at home. What's that like when you come in?

You know, she is incredible. I admire

her so much, um but she's struggling a lot with >> Yeah. just the normal routine of taking care of kids and um all the the doctor and insurance nonsense she deals with. She's she's pretty scattered by the end of the day and tired. >> All right, that's where I'm going with this. So, tell us what a good routine is. In other words, you know that she feels seen, loved, supported. Uh give me

what it looks like of the rest of the night. So, you're coming home, no matter what time, but you come in after normal work day, and and describe very quickly, cuz I'm going somewhere with this, what's happening when you step in or what what is a healthy activity for you?

Yeah, so uh it's usually either wrapping up a nap time and kind of working into it's into dinner time when I get home.

So, it's usually okay for me to take maybe 5 or 10 minutes to myself to go change and take care of business, and then I uh and then I jump in and start trying to help with dinner and and the the work of the evening. >> Right. And bedtime for every Bedtime for everybody is what?

Uh 7:30. I mean, okay, got you, for the kiddos.

And what what about then what happens after 7:30?

Then we go uh decompress for an hour or two before I go to bed. Okay. So, watching TV or whatever. >> Well, that's important to know because uh the reality is is that uh your income going up will, through a side hustle, right, or contract work, given your technical skills, uh certainly could help you get out of debt faster.

But, realistically, you know, I I'm not going to to spend more time on walking through your weekend schedule. But, Jade, where I'm going with this is there is where I'm trying to take him is there's a certain amount of time that you may or may not have.

>> All right. So, instead of the details, cuz we want to walk through. I want to get Jade back in here um on realistically what the baby steps and the timeline looks like. But, before I hand it to her, Lars, here's what you need to hear from me. The reason I walked you through that scenario, that was really for you, not the larger audience.

But, I want you to realize, okay, what do I really have? Mhm. Cuz your wife is in a tough That's that's a That's an exhausting situation. Yeah.

>> And uh you're doing Sounds like you're doing a great job. So, what my recommendation would be is what is the block of time in a normal week? We're not talking about, you know, when craziness happens and life throws curveballs at us all. But, in a normal week, is there a 5-hour block? Is there

a 10-hour block? Outside of what you just described to me, right? So, that would have to be after decompressing with the wife, uh you know, 2 or 3 hours, it's going to bed later, maybe getting up earlier, uh trying to carve some time out on the weekends. I don't know if that's possible, and you don't have to respond to that. But, your exercise is, how many hours a week Mhm. could I Mhm. could I

give to making additional money for the purposes of doing what Jade's going to walk me through. So, that's your homework assignment. Uh but, Jade, let's walk him through realistic like I'd love for him to walk out here with a timeline when we think he can get out of debt, and that'll help him, I think, have a finish line. >> Yeah, I think for me, when I'm listening to you talk, I'm I'm going to give you the the tactical tools and money part of this, but I think I need you to know going in that much of what you're going to struggle with is not going to be the math.

But, because of what you're up against uh with the the special needs of the children, your wife being stay-at-home, you having this new job for the first time and feeling the stress and demands of that, navigating that new schedule, there's so much going on that's new, and you have the new baby coming in in March. It's going There are going to be so many opportunities for your emotions to take over. When that new baby comes, you're going to be tired, and you're going to be overwhelmed. And when you start crunching the numbers, the frustration is going to set in when you look at the timeline.

know, what we're going to be up against and what we're going to be facing.

And so, for you, what I would do is simple. I would, on the math side, I

would jump into EveryDollar, and I would just complete the road map, just so you can see, okay, with the money I have in my hand, how long is this going to take?

And then I would jump onto the digital coaching side of EveryDollar, because it's literally going to allow you to plug everything about your situation in, and it's going to show you, here's how much margin you're going to have every single month to to throw at this debt.

And when you have those real numbers, that is going to help you get a clear picture, not only of the timeline, but what it's going to take to accomplish that. Then, when you add side hustles to it, of course, it's going to go faster.

But, understand, this is going to be an emotional fight for you. So, knowing ahead of time, hey, you're going to need to do those daily habits of jumping into EveryDollar, you and your wife need to set up regular rewards, because this is a long journey ahead of you. So, sit ahead of time and say, when we pay off this debt, every time we pay off X amount of dollars, here's what we're going to do to celebrate, because the the celebration is what's going to keep you going. I wish we had longer to talk.

>> But, here's what we're going to do. We're going to get you Stay on the line. Chris is going to get you into EveryDollar, our gift, and I'm going to give you Jade's brand new book, which addresses what you're going to go through, what no one tells you about money. Hang on.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But, there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it.

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>> [music]

>> All right, we're going to Rhonda next in Phoenix. Rhonda, how can we help today?

Hi Dave, thanks for taking my call. I am a mom of three, and I'm 36 weeks pregnant with our fourth baby.

Wow. Um, my husband makes about 70,000.

I left my job earlier this year that was full-time to homeschool our daughter, our oldest daughter, and I still work part-time making about 30,000.

Um, we are just with the consistent medical expenses, our um kids are all under five, so it's been um pretty hefty the past five years.

Yeah, bless you.

So, um we are having a hard time

first of all, keeping up month to month, but let alone getting an emergency fund in place. It seems like it keeps getting wiped out.

With medical expenses or mostly medical expenses, yeah. >> the $1,000 you're trying to save or 3 to 6 months you're trying to save?

The thousand, so we're on step one.

Um we'll get out of some debt, and then ultimately the kids' health comes first, so if the credit card's available, we'll have to go back to that. We really avoid that. We'll usually use the emergency fund.

Obviously that's what it's for, so.

>> you ever been able to get it to a thousand, or is it's like we get to 300 and it's just gone? Yeah, we'll get it to a thousand. We sometimes will have more, especially after a tax refund or something. Uh-huh.

Um because emergencies don't cost usually a thousand. They tend to be like more. So, the good news is what you're saying, you're right. Usually they're not thousand-dollar emergencies.

They're smaller than that, which means a lot of this actually, Rhonda, could be how you're budgeting. And I think that that's the good news. I think that we're we're going to be able to fix this. >> Let me jump in for a second, cuz I thought I heard something.

Rhonda, did you say most of your emergencies are more than a thousand?

Yes, considering that um we

um they've been births mostly and or

medical expenses. Okay, I misheard that.

Um But I still think where you were going is the same issue.

>> Well, yeah, it it is. >> those births are coming. >> It is the same issue, and I'm glad that you said that. So, let's talk about not just to you, Rhonda, but for anybody listening who's in your shoes. When we think about an emergency, it has to be it has to meet criteria to be an emergency. Number one, it's going to be something that's completely unexpected.

Like I had no idea this is coming. I It's a flat tire on the side of the road, right? And then it needs to be something that's urgent. Like if I don't get this done immediately, like today,

then we we're not eating. Like that sort of thing. And then it has to be necessary. I must do this. It's not an option. It's not something that I could not do, right? And so, those three boxes

must all be checked. It can't just check one, Ken. All three of them must be checked. >> Hit those again really quick, big off. >> It's got to be unexpected, it's got to be urgent, and it's got to be necessary.

All of those things. >> really good. >> Okay. So, for you, let's talk about birth.

Obviously, we know I mean, we got nine months to plan for it, so >> [laughter] >> that's kind of how that works. Obviously it's spilt milk, and I'm not making fun of you, but >> Yeah. going forward, we know that. And just for anybody listening, when if you're walking the baby steps, if you're doing any sort of plan for your money, if you know that you're getting pregnant, you need to stop everything and stack up money.

And ideally, yeah, you want to get to your deductible, Ken, because you never know what's going to happen in that delivery room, and usually insurance will pay for everything up to the deductible. It's up to you, and then they'll pay for anything beyond that. So, going forward, you have this baby coming up. What is your deductible?

Yeah, so that's kind of This is the first time we're budgeting within our birth. So, they've all been kind of like, oops, okay, now let's recover. Um so, this is the first time I think we've been intentional about it. We are actually um uninsured. We do have like

um emergency insurance, and we do have

um like a medical program that we subscribe to to ensure that we have like acute care. >> Mhm. Um but all of our births are out of pocket in front, so we do home births, so everything is cash pay. And what does

it cost?

>> it's five grand um per birth. Um and

then all labs and stuff like that are additional. So, there is no deductible, and so if something comes up where

we have to ensure that the baby is, you know, like checked for something, that might be 250 here, 250 there, and it

kind of just ends up stacking pretty quickly. Mhm. Um When you've done this before, what's the most amount of money you've gotten in with?

Gone into the birth? >> Uh-huh. Like how What's the most you've ever had stacked up to pay for a birth?

Um 6,500.

6,500. And then how much over did you go over the 6,500 in reality?

We probably just met that. Um once you take on like into consideration if we didn't um need to spend on medical expenses, if that could be forwarded into a maternity leave cushion, cuz I don't get paid on maternity leave.

What I'm trying to understand, let me tell you where I'm going with this. What I'm trying to understand is what have you needed in the past that you didn't have that caused you to either A, go into debt or pull money that you weren't

supposed to be pulling from?

Um just the essentials, and I think it's been for planning previously. Now it's obviously not that as much. Um

But uh a safer home, we were not living in a safe area, and then it became like, you know, food. When food got more expensive, that became a little bit harder. Um and so, I I don't have an extraordinary expense that ends up dropping on us. It's just the I think it's a we're on defense instead of on offense in this in the process. Okay, so I'm >> That is a good self-analysis. I'm hearing a couple things. So, A, we're going to continue to save for the baby.

Save 7,000 bucks. Are you on track to be able to save that?

We've paid everything out that needs to be paid. Um we do not have any cushion right now. I'm selling a bunch of stuff around the house um for that cushion. Good. Um And what does it

What's it What's it take to operate your normal monthly budget? Aside from the birth, just keep everything running, keep lights on, keep rent, all of that stuff.

What's that cost? 7K. 7K.

>> Does that include the debt payments?

That does include debt. It does?

It does include debt. >> Okay. Okay, so there's your minimum payments on debt. So, 7K. If you if you came into the month of delivery, and you

had the money you need for operating cost, and then you had the 7K that you need for the birth, or you've already shelled it out, or however it works, tell me then what the issue would be.

Are you telling me, "Hey Jade, what we really need is In the past we've done 7K, but probably what we really need is closer to 9K." Is that what you're telling me?

Um no, I think our birth is covered. I know our bills are covered for this month. I think where we're at and where we're nervous is we've been so back and forth in the hole, back out of the hole, in the hole, out the hole, >> Right. that moving into this process, we have four weeks left until the baby comes, and then we're going to have a few weeks where I can't make income, and

we don't want to be back in that hole.

So, we're trying to not be on the defense. I mean, it's kind of late, right? So, we are still, but we're trying to be more ahead of it, so that we don't end up That's where I'm saying.

>> again. That's where I'm saying. Tell me how you're late if you told me that you've paid for all the costs of the birth. That's what I'm getting at.

It because this this has got to be a simple equation. It's we either feel like we have enough money or we don't have enough money. So, if you're telling me, "Hey, we've paid for the birth," but you also in a previous sentence said, "But other little things pop up." My first thing, Ken, is, "Well, if we've usually saved six or seven, let's save Let's try to get that number higher." >> Yeah.

Jade's right, but very simply and practically, do you have enough income that if you were budgeting properly, you guys would be okay? Yes or no?

I think we probably need to reevaluate our um budget. Somehow I don't see where the margin can come from, but we don't have margin. Okay. All right.

So, that's good. So, second question, and and I we're going to give you one session with the financial coach as our baby gift to you, because we're not going to be able to go into the nitty-gritty, but I think they you they will help you get the answer to that question, all right?

Right, yes. Um my car is

um a newer car that we purchased because all of our car seats can't fit in my previous car, and I we do need some way to transport the kids. >> What did you spend on that car? What did you spend on that new car?

We have it looped into a subsidized loan. The subsidized loan is $33,000. I would say 20,000 of that is a personal loan. Okay. >> Um so my previous car was a subsidized

um personal loan kind of put together with our car. And so then when we bought the new car, the the new car cost absorbed that subsidized loan.

Okay, tell you what we're going to do. We're actually going to do a little deeper dive on this. So we're going to hold you over, go to a little radio commercial, but we're going to hang on to you. So hold on. We're going to dive in this and we're going to show you how you guys get out of this. This is not as difficult as you think.

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All right. So we're talking Rhonda in Phoenix. And Rhonda, I want to bring you back in here.

Okay, so we got to get tactical really quick. Yes. Um we won't Jade, take over

here. But we just all we're looking for Rhonda is numbers in your debt. All right? We want to go smallest to largest. >> out for Jade. >> So I need two things. Rhonda, you told me your husband's making 70,000 a year.

So are you taking home about 4,800 somewhere around there from him?

Yes. And then what's your part-time pay right now? What do you take in home?

Um I'm about 22 to 25. I'm an

independent contractor, so it just changes. So as it is, yeah, you guys you said it takes $7,000 to make your budget. As it is, you're like squeaking by. So when you stop working, I'm seeing that you're going to have yeah, a deficit of around 2,200, 2,123,

somewhere there. Feel right?

Right. >> Okay, so that's what we're concerned about. So the debt, we can talk about the debt and we're going to give you a plan for that. But I want you to I just want to front-load that by saying that's not your concern until after the baby is born. Right now, the concern is saying, "Okay, we're going to have a 2,100

dollar deficit come March and we think that that's going to last for X amount of number of months, right?" Yes. So how

many months do you think that that deficit is going to go on that you won't be working? I only plan to take like max 4 weeks off

because of this. Like I can't have the debt for that long. Um Okay, so I want to err on the side of caution and say if you plan on four, let's plan on eight, right? Let's let's double it because you never know. So that means we've got to find an extra $4,300 somewhere to kind

of bridge that gap. Does that feel right? Yeah. Okay. So now we have a

clear goal. We need to find $4,300. That

money is to bridge the gap. Now, how do we find the money? For you, you're very

very pregnant. But for your husband, this is a lot of extra time working.

This is I'm picking up whatever side hustle I can. I heard you say earlier that you were selling things. Keep doing that. Now let's turn over and look at the debt because there might be some quick wins there that will help us find the money. Ken, the car. Yeah, so I the car Let's the car that you had to have because of the car seats. How much did you pay for it?

Um on the lot, it was a used. So we got it for 10.

It's an SUV.

Um but with the loan, it came out to 33.

How did that happen? How did you go from 10 to 33 on one car?

If it the sticker price was 10.

Right. Our previous car, we still owed on. So we I think I we owed about 4 grand. And then we took out a $15,000 loan. So we owed with interest when it

rolled over to be on top of the other car, it just added that >> Oh Lord have mercy.

>> I'm missing one. The car was 10. You had 4,000 in negative equity. Still that's 14. How did you get to Where'd the other 15 come from?

Sorry, my first car we owed 4 grand. We

needed money. So we got a subsidized loan and the item that we used was that car that was not paid off.

They absorbed that first car's $4,000

remaining. It actually doesn't matter.

You have a $33,000 loan on a $10,000

car. Which kills my entire coaching because it was like >> we were going to get you out of that car. >> "Go get you a $10,000 van." And you did.

All right. So >> What else do you have? Anything? I My stomach hurts. Um my husband is a

teacher. So he'll have about two to three weeks off during the holiday break and he's already agreed to pick up like a temporary positions delivering packages to try and offset some stuff. >> Okay. So what's Do you know what that's going to earn?

We're hoping somewhere between two and three. Okay, so you're partially to your goal because he's going to continue to get his salary through the break, correct? Right. Correct.

>> Okay, so that's great. You're partially to your goal. Now that's the that's just the making the budget work extra money.

Do you need Do we need to add that extra money to that for the birth?

And be be realistic here.

Yeah, I don't believe so. We don't We haven't in the past, by the grace of God, had anything that comes up after birth. Okay. healthy for the baby's healthy. So I'm anticipating that happens. If it does not happen, then that will be a different conversation. >> And And that's what I would do, Rhonda.

I There is like we It's not always sunny and 70, right? So let's plan for the what if scenario so we're ready. Let's start looking and saying, "Well, well, what would it cost if I ended up having to go from my home into the emergency room? What would it cost if I ended up having the baby and needed to, you know, be in the NICU for a little" Like let's do a little bit of research and dial down.

It's not We're not trying to do a self-fulfilling prophecy. We're just getting information so we can prep. I think doing that is going to give you a lot of peace. And those are your two main focuses.

Your husband to clear that gap by working and you to provide insight on the numbers for him. And I would just say this.

We're going to take care of you. We're going to give you the baby gift of a coaching session with financial coach.

And also I want to give away Jade's book, What No One Tells You About Money.

But I I last thing I'm going to say is your husband isn't just doing this during Christmas break.

In order to get out of this hole, Good, Ken. he's going to have to work 60, 70 hours a week for a while. And I hate that. And let me just >> But I'm just going to tell you you guys need more income, especially on this car problem cuz we can't get rid of the car.

So we're going to have to just dig, dig, dig. And it's going to take a while, but you can do it. So And what I like about this conversation is I You You hear the habit talk about hot mind, cold mind? Yes.

You're doing this in a cold mind right now, which is you're not deep in the emotions. You're on the outside of it and you're making clear decisions. Let me tell you, Ken, when that baby hits, all of a sudden that what you've said about side hustling and paying off the debt and da da da da da, that's going to want to fly out the window. So please remember this call, write it down, put it in a frame, put it on the refrigerator because when that baby hits, you're going to want to go the opposite direction.

But you made a decision today in the right frame of mind to to do the right thing.

>> issue. What is the key to getting out of this emotionally? I think what we just talked about, which is knowing it's coming and trying to make those decisions ahead of time, but also understanding, "Okay, what season am I entering into?" Yeah, a whole lot of just awfulness. >> Yeah, because you know, that this stuff it runs in the background of our lives without us being having the time to really get into it.

And so knowing it's there is a big help. All right. So that is just uh one of the reasons for those of you who are just stuck in an emotional place and it's tough. It's why you got to order Jade's new book.

Uh you can pre-order it right now for $24.99, get over $100 in free bonus items. ramseysolutions.com/store,

ramseysolutions.com/store.

What is somebody going to get out of this book? >> It's the check engine light for your money. Ooh. >> When you get in your car and you see the check engine light, Ken, what do you do?

You take it to the the mechanic and they >> up Greg. They run that diagnostic >> Yeah. and they give you the little code and tell you what's wrong. This is what that book does.

It is going to run a diagnostic on you emotionally and it's going to find out what's going wrong, what's been making things not run right for you. And then it's going to give you the code to fix it. And it's going to take you step by step to what you need to do. So it's a diagnostic and you need that because you've been stuck and you haven't known why.

>> What do you think um are top two or three? Yeah, I love a top five list. Okay. We don't have time for top five.

So I'm going to put you on the spot. Top three emotions, negative emotions, that our audience is facing in trying to get out of debt. I'm going to say frustration because with the baby steps, there's a lot of nuance and it's a lot to remember. It's a lot to think through.

Even though it sounds simple, I'm going to go with anger because of so many outside forces that are affecting our money, whether it be inflation, the housing market, administrations, the cost of insurance. All of those things that we didn't do, they're not our fault, but yet they're sitting here affecting our money.

When people choose to walk the baby steps, there is a fear of the unknown.

They they're not sure if I really sacrifice all of this, is it going to be worth it on the other side?

They don't know. And so there's that first initial step of faith, that kind of leap that you have to take. And a lot of people are afraid to take it. >> Yeah, I agree.

I think there's so many types of fear. Oh, and I talk about so many of them. You nailed the fear of the unknown. I think it's the biggest in any of our life.

But you know, it's sometimes it's just as simple as if you've heard Dave, if you hear one of us, but it's Dave the one that just gets he just [music] gets fierce and he starts going, you don't see the inside of a restaurant, rice and beans, beans and rice. It's so like I'm just afraid to dial my life back like that. There's a real fear to that. Like what are my kids going to say?

What is my spouse going to say?

change, radical change is fearful. So,

hey, we hear you. We've done it. We We're here for you.

So, we know what you're walking through. We're going to walk through it with you.

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Already then, today's question comes from Kate in Utah. She says my 15-year-old daughter recently started babysitting, which has been a great first job for her. If she wants to buy something like concert tickets, she has to pay for it. This has really helped her with budgeting and being responsible. In addition to what she earns, we provide her with spending money. Should we be putting that money into her bank account as an allowance or

should this be something she earns once a task is completed? Also, should we have her keep a set amount of minimum balance in her savings? Okay, so there's a couple of questions in here. We're talking about do we want allowance versus like paid wages, basically? Like

paid you know, you get a wage for a service kind of thing.

Um and do we kind of regulate how much

she needs to have in her account at all times? So, I really am I love the idea

of people working for money because that's the way it works in the real world, Ken.

Um and part of this is experience for me, too. I I never grew up on allowance, and so I don't even know what that is.

But I do know what it means to do a job and get paid for it. And I think there's a certain level of not only reality to that, but dignity to that. And I I mimic that at home with my kids. They unload the dishwasher. With my kids, there are certain chores that they do that is just you being a citizen in this household.

You don't get paid for it. It's just you being a good citizen. Those are things like making up your bed, keeping your room clean, that kind of thing. Then, there are chores that you do that you get paid for.

And so that's how they earn their money or maybe some people would call it allowance. So, I would implement something like that. There needs to be chores that she does in the house that are just shoe-in. But then there's other things that she can get paid for.

And when it comes to what you are telling her she needs to keep in her um savings, I would do I would just teach give, save, spend. So, whatever you have, you can give some of it, you can save a portion of it, and you can spend a portion of it.

decide what that portion is.

Yeah, the only thing I would add to this, and I don't know if this is going to be controversial, but Do it, Ken.

Come on, Dad. I really don't care.

Um I think you teach all of that. And I have. But I got one kid, and Jade knows

all three of my kids well. I got one kid who is He's saving, boy.

He He ain't letting go of that cash.

Dude's got thousands, >> [laughter] >> okay? From every every financial gift, little odd job he's ever had.

I got two other kids that don't have any money. >> Yeah. And I've taught them. I've taught them till I'm blue in the face, and guess who doesn't have a blue face today?

Me. Well, you don't you can't make them do it. >> That's what I would say. So, teach them, and then I think that life is the best teacher. And so, I've got one kid that just at some point is going to get tired of being broke.

And then the old man's a genius.

Uh so, I think as parents go, I think sometimes we we do a little too much teach, more importantly, model. Yeah. Yes.

>> say this is what Mom and I do, or this is what your father and I do. This is what I think you should do, and here's why. And then let it go.

>> Let it go. >> And just cuz cuz I'm telling you something, you got to learn it.

And it's not like teaching them to ride a bike, per se. It has It has some parallels. You can hold You can keep

your hands on the outside of the seat, but you got to let it Yeah. >> And then when they fall down and skin their knees, they start to learn to ride a bike. And so, they need to be broke. I mean, so broke it hurts.

Can I tell you >> So, there you go. I And you've got older kids. That's what you've got. They run the campaign. >> 18, and 17.

My kids are younger. >> it they're in it right now. And they need spending money.

Yeah, cuz they got gas and games and dates and They got all the things. Can I tell you about my 7-year-old? All right.

So, I told you the kids they get some

money that for doing things like unloading the dishwasher. And we were trying to teach my son uh if you want something, you have to save up your money for it, and that takes time. So, we finally we were finally able to get him to save up his money. He wanted a fish tank to buy a goldfish.

And so, he finally saved up the $22. He we went this weekend. Got him the the he got the tank, the little pineapple that goes in it, two goldfish. Don't you know the next morning one of them was dead?

AND I WAS LIKE I FELT so bad cuz he saved up his money. I mean, Can we not have a cheaper fish that has a longer life expectancy for all of us?

The kids of the world, we're breaking their hearts. Is there not a fish that's a little more durable? >> [laughter] >> The goldfish, it's a 50/50 proposition.

Every morning you wake up, you're stressed out. I hope the second one hangs on. That's all I hope.

>> Don't hold your breath. Promise you he's not.

Oh, man. We'll be here all day with the We'll be here all day with the parent jokes. Uh Matthew's up in Gainesville, Florida.

Matthew, how can we help?

Hi, I was wondering should I stick with the trade I'm in, doing HVAC, or should

I switch to another trade like welding or building automation to make more [clears throat] money and do something more fulfilling?

Oh, I think you might have just answered your question. Am I to understand that the you're in HVAC, and if you were going to welding, you perceive that to be more enjoyable, more fulfilling, and it's certainly you know for a fact you can get paid more?

Yes and no. I can make about the same.

It's mainly the company I'm at.

But I have a difficulty trying to go to another company due to experience. Okay, so two things. One, I want you to adjust your phone. You sound like you're inside of a sock.

Uh you know, okay. So, talk to me talk back to me.

Um do you want me to say it again? It's only slightly better. I'm having a hard time understanding you, but we'll keep going. Okay. So, I asked you So, you

presented a question. Okay, I want to hit you with the facts. You said, do I leave my trade of HVAC and go into welding in order to make more money, be more fulfilled. I repeated it back to you, and your reply was, well, uh it'll be about the same amount of money, and really it's just the company I'm at. So, it sounds like you're presenting something different. Do you hear what I'm hearing?

Yes, sir. So, I wonder if I were to wave

my pencil in the air as it were it were magical, and I'm doing right here on camera, Matthew, you can't see it. And I were to remove all of the bad stuff at

this current company. Would you be on the phone with me right now asking this question? Yes or no? No, sir. Huh? No, sir. No.

No, sir. I would not. So, it's not the trade.

True or false?

Correct. It's the place.

True or false?

Correct. All right. Give me something specific.

What is What is really bothering you?

I do about 2 hours at work and then I sit on my phone the rest of the the day just to get my hours so I can have money and pay bills. Okay. Now, Matthew, I am so glad you called today because I think there are literally millions of people that are going to hear this. And folks, I want to make sure you hear what Matthew just said. Matthew is feeling burned out. True or false, Matthew?

True. And Matthew is feeling burned out not because he's working too hard. He's not working enough, Jade. He's bored.

Yes. >> want to call this out real quick and we'll move on. But I want this massive audience to hear what very few people will tell you that boredom is one of the biggest causes of burnout.

Mhm. Human beings are wired, we are created by our creator

to work, to progress, to overcome

challenges. It is in our soul.

So, I just want to put that out there. You're right. And many of you are looking for a solve that you don't need to look for and you need to look inward and go, "I'm bored out of my skull and

as a result my soul is slowly seeping

from my body." So, just a real quick sermon there. We won't take an offering.

Uh but I just want to make sure that you're paying attention to what Matthew's paying attention. So, Matthew, here's the fix.

I'm not against you nor would I tell you not to move into welding because to me as long as you as welding is creating uh a unique challenge, in other words, you've got the skill to do it, but it also is interesting and it's enough of a challenge that you have to apply yourself and you're actually working all day, then yes, move into welding.

However, if you can find another HVAC company that actually works you during the day, doesn't overwork you, then that's the simple fix. So, we won't We don't want to run away from something. I want to run to something and in this case, I don't [music] think the something is another trade. I think it's a different company and I'm going [music] to stick with that. So, hey, thanks for being honest and you can fix this real easy. Go somewhere where you can work, my man.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you. Let's go to Christopher in Denver, Colorado. Christopher, how can we help?

Yeah. Merry Christmas to both of you.

Thank you for taking the call. >> and Merry Christmas to you.

Yeah. Um so, my wife and I, we have a daughter that's 3 years old and a son that's 9 months old. And the day my son was born,

uh my father-in-law tragically passed away, unfortunately. >> Oh my gosh. And you know, the the grief and trauma that's come along with that has led to many challenges for my immediate family.

And you know, in um in his will, he had he

had essentially um said, you know, "Real estate's the best investment and I would really prefer you to hold on to my home and uh use it as a

uh rental property." Well, due to the grief that's been caused by this, you know, my wife consequently lost her job. And you know, that that $90,000 deficit is, you know, pretty substantial. Um so, I'm I'm I have a financial and moral dilemma on my hands. And on one hand, I'd I'd really like to um uh um you know, o- obey his wishes and on the other hand, you know, I I have a family to look after.

And Okay, let me let me jump in for a second. Cuz I Yeah. think we got to dig into some stuff.

Your father-in-law died 3 years ago, is that right? No, this this year in March. >> 9 months. Oh, so I wrote 9 years old.

Sorry. So, 9 months So, 9 months ago your father-in-law died.

Correct. >> And the grief from that led to your wife losing her job. Yeah, she was let go

from her job. What Can I ask, is there some type of unique circumstance on that? Yeah. Yeah, it was um you know, without getting into too much detail, self-inflicted, you know. Okay, got you.

All right. It's a very, very traumatic to the point where she's not able to function at work.

Um certainly, yeah. >> Okay. And how much was she making?

She was making 90,000. And how much do you make? Before taxes and bonuses, I make 120.

Okay. And now, let's move into So, what are the financial challenges? I'm assuming it's debt.

Um unfortunately, no. We We've worked very hard to get out of debt and that's kind of the reason why I'm I like you. I like you. >> Correct. >> I'mma walk you through this. So, you have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund? Uh I have had to drain it to um one, take care of my welcoming our new

son. Two, um taking care of the property

that's in Texas, I should add. We're in Denver. This is in Texas. >> Okay, good to know. >> do you have siblings that are also in the will on this property or is it just you? It is just my wife. So, the

>> right, your wife. So, what's the property worth if you were to sell it?

Yeah, you know, I've gotten um my real estate agent says um about 325 if we

were to put, you know, X, Y, and Z into the home. Um without putting in uh the upgrades

into the home, we're probably looking at just south of 300.

>> And how much Okay, so what would you What would your wife walk away with if we sold it as is?

Um let me get that number for you. Um we're looking at about, you know, at 325, 303,000.

Um without, we're looking at about 278,000.

>> So, you would So, you guys would walk away with 278k. Okay.

Uh what happened with the birth of of your child to where it drained your entire emergency fund?

Uh that was not the the part that drained it. Unfortunately, it was uh hiring movers, getting us physically down there to go through the home. You know, it it's not it's not my home. So, >> Oh, I understand. So, you know, I have to be very sensitive to my wife and allow her to, you know, take the time to

go through his belongings. You know, all of his home is basically in my home now.

>> How much was in your How much was in your emergency fund?

Uh 25,000. You drained it. Holy smokes.

>> Correct. And on Uh well, we have about 4,000 remaining, but the repairs on the home would cost us upwards of 23,000.

All right, so >> Let me Let me cut through for a second.

So, I it sounded like it sounds like, and I think I'm right, obviously you're thinking, "Hey, we're feeling a $90,000 deficit year over year. If I can get my hands on some of this money, I can invest it and kind of make up that loss that way she can take the time that she needs and it's not going to continue to have such a drain on us, right?" >> Almost, but my what I would like to do is we purchased our home in 2022. Our

interest rate is 7.125%.

7.125%, excuse me.

And you know, it's my opinion that by refinancing, you know, we can substantially lower our mortgage about $2,100. Okay. On the on the flip side of

that, you know, after speaking to uh property managers in the area, it's expected that we could get roughly 2,200 in rent for the property.

Um and that's before fees, taxes, etc.

For your father-in-law's property?

Correct. So, here here Let me just Let me tell you what I'm thinking. I'm I'mma be 100% honest with you. Um I don't

think this is your decision to make alone in a vacuum, number one. And if

this loss has been what has been, my

guess is that she's might not be down to ride on this just yet.

>> Where is she at? >> Well, let me let me finish let me finish the loop here. And then the final thing is if you do sell this property and cuz I want to say this on the front end, the only reason that I would say to do this right now is simply because of the location.

I'm not uh it for me it's not a financial thing of like we have to recoup this money doing a bunch of math. For me it's more like, "Hey, you can't really manage this

uh from where you are in Denver." And we've seen that. You've already shelled out far more money than you need to going back and forth and whatnot. And we would tell nobody to be a long-term landlord in that way. So that if if you sell it, that would be my reason why and I would say, "How can we sell this? Is

is the mother-in-law alive? Who do we need to talk to to make this feel right?" But it would not be for the reasons that you're saying. So I just want to put that out there cuz it feels >> I I appreciate your opinion. I I do and um

fortunately, you know, I completely agree with you. Um this is my wife's decision. For uh you know, the the the

the reality is that you know, I I'm a finance guy of the home, right?

>> Yeah, and I hear that. I can hear it in your numbers. >> And yeah, and um uh you know, she is um

we're doing everything that we can to to keep this property cuz I do want to honor those wishes. >> Okay, so let's So there's So that's what we need to be focusing on. It feels like you called in and said, "Should we sell it?" But in your your your wife is saying, "I don't want to sell it." Is that true? No, she wants to do what's best for us.

Well, what do you think is best?

I would sell it. I would sell it, too.

>> it because of what she said what Jade just said is that it's a it's a burden for you guys. You've already blown a ton a bunch of money. I'd sell it as is

and and inv and invest that money, build your mercy fund back up, and invest it, and let's do something good with it. Let's walk the baby steps out with whatever comes in. Or if you really did feel like I think the way you framed it earlier was why he wanted you to keep it was because real estate for him was was the best investment. So in my mind, the and this is just I'm spitballing.

I'm not saying you must do this.

the money to be used on would be maybe Okay, maybe you do buy an investment property. Maybe you pay off your mortgage because that's a property and then now that's another asset.

>> what I mean. >> So roll it back into real estate whether it be yours or you know, whatever that is. And that way you're keeping the memory alive, you're keeping his values alive, but you're also doing the right thing for your family.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> All right, Lilly is up next in Kansas City. Lilly, how can we help?

Hi, I have been with my partner for 4

years.

Wow, Lilly, you just broke up really bad. So we didn't hear that part. We just heard you were with your partner and then it went into like some ghost sound. haunted >> Sorry about that. Can you hear me now?

Really clear. Okay, so start that whole thing over. Okay, I've been with my partner for 4 years. >> Okay. I moved out here. Um we live in a rural

area outside of Kansas City and found out this year that [clears throat] he does not want to get married. Okay. Mhm.

Which is a problem for me because I've been investing into his household and into this property for the last 4 years.

>> Tell Woah woah woah woah. Sorry. Tell us what that means specifically. How much have you invested? So he

owns his own home and he has He bought

the house in 2012 at a interest rate of like 3%. Um crazy

low. Okay. And he should have this paid

off in about 7 years. And when I say investing, I mean I have been I I pay for things living here. I know. I'm asking for how much and like what? A kitchen, a bathroom, what? Give us specifics.

I apologize. It's not that not that deep.

Um I pay for things in this household.

The only way he will let me pay for things is if I buy groceries,

pay for like our bedding, household items. Well, that's not investing in Okay, I'm tracking now. But that's not investing in the house.

It's not investing in the house, but here's my problem. Here's the dilemma.

When he told me he wouldn't marry me, he set up a revocable trust.

Okay.

Um leaving everything to me, you know, when he passes away.

My problem is is that I'm living paycheck to paycheck buying the things that I'm buying for the house and he pays the mortgage, pays the bills, and won't let me be a true partner Well, hold on, Lilly.

I feel like we're focusing on the wrong thing. >> Yes. >> Her brain Jade, I'm I'll get out of your way cuz your brain's about to explode on the revocable trust. But but Lilly, I'm just going to speak to the relationship side.

Okay? Here's what I just heard. Uh I moved out here 4 years ago to be with this guy. He doesn't want to marry me.

And he made it very clear, but as a consolation prize, he created an irrevocable trust. Jade will get to that in a second. I don't That to me is just weird. >> It's so weird. >> you kept then you went, "And but he won't let me pay for things and he won't let me Why are you still trying? >> Why are you even in the house? This this is this relationship is over.

Right? Right?

I mean, I yeah, in my mind it the the

trust is revocable, by the way, not irrev irrevocable. >> It's Sorry, it doesn't matter. The whole thing is weird and tell him never mind because if you don't want to marry me, why would you leave all your stuff to me? What does that mean? >> to me that's just a weird thing and it proves this guy's a weirdo. And I'm not trying to be unkind. And I'm not trying to be insensitive, but you called us, so we're automatically on team Lilly.

>> Let me just tell you that for me it's it's very manipulative, too, because it's this way of keeping you on the hook forever Exactly.

>> that without marrying you. Why would you say, "I won't marry you, but I'm going to leave you after I die all of my major

assets?" I'm going to tell you what this is. I'm going to tell you what it is. This is friends with benefits and the benefit is he he wants you, >> Bro, but he don't want to marry you.

>> This is sleeping with the enemy. Remember that? >> he's going to give you his whatever just so that you No, that's weird. This guy does not want to be married to you in a union with you. He wants the benefits that come with this and that would make me feel gross.

Mhm. I feel gross for you. It does it and and even being part of the revocable trust, it feels like I'm being >> Say no and break up with Break up with him and leave. >> When did this start, Lilly? When did you find out he doesn't want to marry you and when did he tell you about this weird trust thing?

Oh boy, you did. This year early this year and he set up the trust about 2 months later cuz I told him that I didn't He says he feels like he doesn't want to get married because the government gives the government too much power over his assets.

>> stop. >> Bull crap. This guy is such a bad liar.

>> tell you, when he told when you said, "Why aren't we getting married?" and he said, "I don't want to marry you." Did you give him some What I want to know is did you give him some sort of sort of ultimatum? Did you tell him he was you were leaving and then this was the response to that? That is correct. You did? Yes. Well, why are you still with him?

Cuz he created the revocable trust and and now he's >> That's what you let it work. It worked.

>> you didn't give him an ultimatum and do anything about it. You threatened. And then he went, "I see your threat >> And I raise you some manipulation. >> raise you some manipulation. And you said, "Bet." I know I'm right. I've been right for about 3 or 4 minutes into this call and I'm going to >> to hear it from someone that was unobjectionable. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Break up with him. If you were my sister, I would be like, "You have no respect for yourself if you stay in this relationship." >> And and I agree with Ken and now let me just hit on just a a personal note, you

as a human being, there is a a sunk cost here, right?

You're like, "Man, I love this guy. I spent 4 years." 4 years is a long time.

And you got up and you moved to be with this person. There is a lot there and I understand that you're probably like, "Can I salvage some of this?" Because if I can't salvage this, then I you have to come to terms with whatever that means to you about you. Like, I can't believe I fell for this guy or I can't believe right? And that's very, very difficult to do and my guess is that's probably why even though he said he wouldn't marry you you continued on up until the point of this call is there was some part of you that probably was like maybe there's something here I can salvage, maybe there's still a chance that this could turn around and I totally get that and Ken and I are not making fun of you or knocking you.

It's hard to walk away from a household that I put so much time and energy into because now I walk away with nothing.

Well, you had an expectation of what that was going to mean. Well, she had an expectation of what that would bring.

>> I know, but I'm going to tell you why I disagree and this is team Lily. Lily

that's the wrong thing to say. You've been telling yourself I'm walking away with nothing. I'm going to tell you you're walking away with something and it's your dignity. >> That's facts. Come on. That's facts. You got to know you got to rewire this message. The narrative is I'm not going to let this guy manipulate me

and rob me of my dignity. I'm walking away with my dignity intact and that's a big deal and I'm going to make my life better and I'm going to focus on getting myself to a place where I'm not living paycheck to paycheck and I'm going to get myself healthy and deal with what Jade is saying and she's real here. I mean this hurts. I'm not minimizing this. This really stinks but there is healing on the other side of this and I think there's love, real love Yes. on the other side of this.

Because here's the thing I and and I I I'm not pooh-poohing any

anybody's journey, Ken. >> Sometimes we have to pooh-pooh some things. Yeah, I'm just saying when when the real man comes Lily, he's going to know and it ain't going to take him four years to figure it out. I'm going to tell you that right now. >> That's true and you'll know.

And Lily, since we're playing armchair quarterback here, it's the nature of our job. All right, we're not going to focus on the past. We're going to set our mind on the things of the future and we're going to heal and we're going to move forward, okay? However, for Lily and all of the

other people listening or watching, please don't uproot your life and move to some place for somebody who's not willing to change their life for you.

>> Thank you, Ken. Let me say it again. Do not uproot your life for somebody who's not willing to change their life. If they change their life in that they say we are all in and getting married, then I will uproot.

>> Mhm. But I got to tell you a lot of manipulative dudes out there. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. So Lily, uh get out of there.

What do you let's let's just say we got we got about a minute. So real quick answer. Uh would you have moved to Kansas City for any other reason than this guy?

No. No. Okay. So here's the Absolutely not.

>> Okay. So here's the deal.

Here's what I and I I know there's a lot so I'm not going to ask you anything else cuz I think you got to grieve this but I would tell you that the reason I asked you that is I want that to be the resounding thing you take away from this call. You only moved there for this guy.

You know this guy is not your guy. So now let's begin the mindset of where do I want to restart my life and this can be exciting. It can be healthy. Dare I say it can be full of fun adventure but it starts with going nope, I don't want the trust. I don't want you. I'm out.

Jade, final word. >> Yes. Men and women, let's stop putting ourselves in these positions where there [music] is this power indifference especially when it's not a marriage. This business of moving in with somebody and it's their place and they hold all the cards and you're kind of at their mercy for them to let you in. This business needs to stop.

Live at your own house. There's nothing wrong with living at your own house and dating somebody and at the end of the day you go home to your house that you own by yourself until you're married.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, if you're listening to the show and you want to be better with your money but you haven't started, the question is why haven't you started doing something about it? You know there's a problem but why haven't you started doing it? It's a big question, right? And I think that you know, I've said this for years, Jade, that we humans, I being at the top

of the list we would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Ooh.

Right? Just think about that cuz we kind of know the miserable and we're talking about financial misery here in this particular situation. >> It's the devil we know. That's right. Uh and and and so the Dave has said this too. It's like people finally change where they go, oh, I actually am sick

and tired of being sick and tired. In other words, I now would rather be uncomfortable Mhm. than be miserable.

Here's one example from some of our Ramsey Baby Step Facebook community folks. This is Shay. When I got sick and tired of giving my harder money to paying credit card interest, I felt like I was paying twice for all the items I was purchasing. I was fed up

with rising interest rates and playing the games of shuffling all my debts to 0% interest cards and not getting ahead. I love that one. Julia said, when I realized how much money we actually take home in a month and are still living paycheck to paycheck, it was ridiculous. Never again. Wow. All right, now how about this one? Joseph said 1,000% the moment

was when we had our daughter, our first child and my buddy who makes half of what we make is able to have his wife stay at home with their kid where we can't afford to. Now that's the ah-ha moment. Like that's where you're like uh something's really wrong.

So really unbelievable. We've got a link

um in the show notes uh at ramseysolutions.com/start and this is where you can take it's free, takes you a few moments. It's called the Get Started Assessment. And it'll allow you to get a real nice snapshot of where you are and a customized money plan that will allow you to say, oh, I can make a difference. Again um ramseysolutions.com/start

and uh send us your comment. Those of you that have had that I've had it moment.

>> Have you had a moment? Me? Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I think it for me it was of course this is so long ago. I got to like I got to like Dig it up.

>> go back into it but I the moment for us was we were two two incomes, double income, no kids.

And the debt that we had accumulated trying to get started in our life, we were like absolutely struggling.

We had stuff but we were miserable because we weren't we were we were living paycheck to paycheck and we weren't actually we were living more than the paycheck and I think for me it scared me. Yeah. So my my I had it was, ooh, I don't like this feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh no control over my financial life and the control issue actually like that was the issue. But anyway, we'd love to hear your comments of your sick and tired moments. ramseysolutions.com/start.

We got a link in the show notes for the assessment and again, it's a wonderful little tool so go check that out. Boise, Idaho is where we go next and Evan is joining us there. Evan, how can we help?

Hey there. I got a question for you about credit card cash back. Hit me.

>> I know of course you guys's opinions on that but I have I think a unique unique situation.

>> Here it is. Evan believes, folks, that he's got a scenario that we have not heard before. This is breaking news.

Evan, take it away. What is the loophole? All right, so I own a

business where I buy and sell used camera equipment. Now with the volume that I'm doing, I'm making about $3,000 a month in just cash back.

It's never um all the money is always backed by cash in a high yield savings account.

Pay it off all immediately as soon as the payments post and then just reap the rewards. Mhm. Never heard that. We have never heard it put that way before. How much is in your high yield? >> I'm kidding.

About 60,000. Oh, yeah, so you've got plenty.

I mean there's there's a couple of schools of thoughts that we could go down the road of um >> [sighs] >> let me start and I I I'm not going to lie. This is not my favorite argument and I and I'll tell you why but it is an argument. When you really think about how credit card points are derived and what they come from it is really off the

backs of who they're hoping will fail at the system, the people who won't make their payments on time, the people who will default. That's where the ability to do this point these points are coming from. So, from um um And I And I'm just saying it. I'm not saying it has to be your ethics, but from an ethical point of view, a lot of people don't like that. They don't like the fact that one person has to fail for another person to win. So, that's kind of one of the the the

arguments you could make. >> the gross factor. >> It's the gross factor that you could say for that. Now, that being said, there are lots of causes in the world, Ken, that people can say, "Well, I don't You know, I don't use coffee if it's not fair trade, and I don't do this if it's right, right?" And you get to pick your causes if that's not one of them.

That's your bad. >> the sweater you're wrapping right now. Some people because of the values won't go to Disney. We're not going to go to Disney World.

>> [laughter] >> I said some I said some people. Yeah.

>> so my point is my My point there, Evan, is I'm not trying to like saddle you up with guilt, but I'm just trying to present the op- the the option for you to think about something. The same way you presented something to say, "Hey, you guys may not have thought about this scenario." I want you to think about that scenario. And I'll really just leave it at that because I'm never going to And you know this, calling. I'm never going to tell somebody to go into debt.

Like, period. I'm just not. Um do I believe you when you say that you are you know, Paying it every month. >> paying it every month and you've got the money backed there. Yeah, I do believe that. Do I also believe that if something happened and your business did

not make the money you thought it would, uh would it cost you maybe a thousand or so bucks? Yeah, probably. Could you absorb that? Yeah, you could, but would it be better if you didn't? Yes, it would. I So, I think about things like that. I also think about the idea that when you use credit and when you use plastic, you are going

to spend more. That's what the data tells us. Depending on the type of purchase depends on the percentage more that you will spend. And that that there's also something something to that. Like, your operating costs would probably be lower if you were paying cash versus knowing that you were getting points. So, these are just things for you to be thinking of. Um judging by your demeanor when you called in, I don't think you're going to change it, but I also am not going to lose sleep over it, and neither will you.

Yeah, [laughter] I mean, Evan, what's the Evan, what's the uh total max you could put on that credit card that you're paying off every month?

22,000. Yeah.

Could you see a scenario where you would be tempted or you could be tempted to use some of that credit and not pay it off? No, I hate that. I'm scared of it.

But yet you have it.

It's just that's what they gave him. >> I like, for instance, I'm scared and this is I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm very scared of snakes.

Okay? I because of that, I would never have a snake in my house. You say, "Well, it would be in the uh what do you call those things? What do you put a snake in? Is it like a uh aquarium?" >> at the wrong one. >> Aquarium. I wouldn't put it in there because to me, if I'm scared of the snake, even though it's in the aquarium and I would never take Like, it to me, it just makes zero sense as to why if

I'm scared to death of credit, I would put something in place where you could potentially get >> He's getting enough of a benefit in his mind from it that for him it's worth it to keep it. >> So, Evan, we're not going to change your mind. I'm not sure why you called, right?

Sure. >> [laughter] >> So, I'm just curious to see what your explanation was. >> here's my real answer. You're not going to stump us. Like, that's our explanation. I just don't think you're going to go for it. >> The snake one was a new one. I don't like it. And I I I used it because I used this one last week. So, I'm going to go back to the ice cream. Ice cream.

>> Okay. I have a real love of ice cream.

And ice cream is not good for me because most of the time I eat ice cream is not at 2:00 on a Saturday. My ice cream love

tends to come out after 7:00. And we shouldn't eat anything after 7:00. More Mostly should not eat ice cream for me.

Bubble guts. It's terrible. Yeah. And so, Evan, if I But I don't have any ice cream in my house. Because if I did I used to keep ice cream in my house. I would always have some type of a pint or a gallon in there. And now, guess what happens? I don't want to eat ice cream.

I don't want to eat ice cream. Evan, I don't want to eat ice cream. I don't like the way ice cream makes me feel in the morning when I weigh myself. I don't want it. I don't want it. >> love the way it tastes. Gosh, it's right there. It's right there.

I just think if you're scared of eating ice cream and what it will do to you after hours, don't have the ice cream in the freezer. He's It's going to take something happening for him to change his mind. And I hope it never does.

>> recording this and he's going to tell his buddies he got us.

Well, he didn't get us. We just have different values. Yeah. Different different beliefs. >> Yeah. I love

>> [music]

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Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Mitchell joins us in Chicago, Illinois. Mitchell, how can we help?

Yeah, hey guys. I could use some help and your opinions on a car purchasing decision coming up here. All right, tell us what's happening.

Yeah, I'll set the stage a little bit here. Household income is about 200,000

a year. And we're debt-free outside of the mortgage. We've got a 30,000 in the emergency fund.

But the wife's car is going to

needs a new engine. And make a long story short on that, but I'm we're just going to go car shopping this weekend for a used car. Mhm. Um

the writing was kind of on the wall. I had saved We've probably got about 15 grand set aside already for a new car.

So, that's a good starting point.

>> Mhm. But as I've been kind of digging in and figuring out what we want, uh of course, you know, the the creep is coming in, and we're you know, starting to look at ones that are closer to 25 or maybe up to like 30 grand out the door.

I'm not mad at it. >> So, you know, I'm you know, I'm a long time listener, and there's just like this under you know, I'm the nerd in the relationship, and there's just like guilty part of my conscience that's like, uh do we really pull like 15 grand out

of our emergency fund to get us up to 30

in cash that we'll pay out the door?

>> I wouldn't do that because it's not an emergency, per se. It's not an It's an emergency for you to get a car. It's not an emergency for you to spend 30k.

What I don't have a problem with I don't have a problem with you guys spending 30k. I think you need to save cash to do it and not touch an emergency fund for it. I would say that.

>> Yeah, the the only wrench that gets thrown into it is that the wife's car is burning oil,

and I just got done going through the dealership and verifying with an independent mechanic that it needs >> Understood, but nothing Understood, Mitchell, but nothing stops you from getting what you can afford and then upgrading later.

Nothing stops you from Do you see what I'm saying? >> Or or and I have driven cars. I feel like I'm the expert on driving cars that burn oil.

How long can I understand that it it's going to eventually need a new engine. Is there some kind of estimate on how much longer this car might last?

Well, just kind of talking with people and stuff, it's burning about a quart and a half to two quarts every thousand miles. So, you know, can I keep putting in oil in it and maybe get another couple months out of it? Maybe.

>> Try it. It's given it's winter, and you know, it's >> You don't have nothing to be nervous about. To Jade's point, you've got 15k.

So, go with me for a moment, Mitchell.

All right? Yeah. So, let's take what you just said. And by the way, I've done that while I was saving up to buy a car.

Jade, I would go to uh like a big warehouse store and buy a box of oil.

And I'd check my oil every two or three days. >> Mhm. Mhm. Uh in fact, Joe Hankin is

running the board today. Joe, you remember when I was we were doing the show in Gainesville, Georgia, WDUV. You remember uh I'm driving a uh I forget what I was driving, but I was checking my oil almost every 2 days

to make sure that, you know, I wasn't going to blow the engine up, and you can keep an engine going if the only problem is burning oil, oh yeah, you can keep it going. So, here's my point, Michelle. Uh oil is a lot cheaper than than than buying a $30,000 car until we have the money for it. So, let me change gears here, no pun intended. I can't believe I just said that. That's that's horrible.

>> terrible. That was all I didn't mean to do that. All right, Michelle, how many months would it take for you to save up the additional 15 to get a $30,000 car?

Uh somewhere in the range of three to four. I mean, the 15 is the gap on the emergency fund. >> I would go buy a bunch of oil. Yep.

And I would check that oil every three or four days. >> Make it last forever. Yeah, make it last. Keep Just oil's cheap.

And then how would you So, Michelle, let's just play this out. Let's assume you do what I tell you to do, and you nurse this thing, and you 3 months from now you've got the additional 15k, and you go buy a $30,000 car that you guys have really got your eye on right now. How would that feel?

Mhm.

Uh that would that would feel really good assuming that's how it plays out. Oh, but but but wait wait wait wait wait wait. Wait wait wait wait wait. Let Can I jump in here cuz I I hear I hear what is in my book, which is the difference between rational and irrational fears, Ken.

>> it is. You have a fear, Michelle, and your fear is very very vague. The fear

and it but it's stopping you from doing something that we're telling you, "Hey, there really is no there's no nothing bad can happen from you playing this out further." >> No, cuz if it blows up, he's got a car he's got 15k. He's got a car.

>> But what instead you're letting this very vague fear of "Well, something could happen with the car. The car could blow up. It could end up on the side of the road. It could" but you're not telling us something very very real and specific that you're specifically scared of. Are you scared that your wife's going to be in the car with the kids?

She's going to be pulled over on the side of the road? You're going to be stuck at the office? You won't be able to come get her? Tell us specifically >> Oh. what you're afraid of cuz then we can solve for it. But if you're going to keep it floating in the air as this big vague monster that nobody can fix, then

we can't help you. So, tell us specifically what you think's going to happen. >> what you just kind of outlined there, Jade. You know, that's the real fear is like, you know, we're in the dead of winter in Chicago right now, and, you

know, if she has dropped them off in the morning or something and that engine blows, then, you know, we're finding ourselves in a bit of a pickle and down to one vehicle. >> Hold on, let's play it out. Let's play it out. >> it out.

What would you do? Okay, your wife calls you, and exactly this scenario happens. >> I'm on the side of the road. The kids are in the car.

I'm going to be late for school. They're going to be late for school. They're going to be late. I'm in my pajamas.

I don't want anybody to see me.

I mean, we'd be going new car shopping.

>> No, that's not what you would do.

In the moment, what would you say to your wife? We're role-playing. What would you say to her?

>> Yeah, I'm uh I'm on the way in the truck. Yeah. And how long would it take you? Play out the the worst possible scenario. If you were >> Yeah, love this. How long's it take you to get to her?

Half hour at the most. >> Okay, is she and the kids going to freeze to death in that time?

Nope. Okay, would you get fired from your job for having to take off and go rescue her?

Nope. Okay. And in Chicago in Chicago, aren't you kind of you know, you keep blankets in the trunk. You wear a coat when you go out no matter what, right?

>> point. We could have a contingency for such a problem. >> Yeah. Oh. So, I >> Yeah, and I think, you know, the real crux of why I wanted to call you guys is like more more on the front of just the emergency fund. >> an emergency. Does this warrant that?

No, it does not it does not warrant you taking from the emergency fund because it's not an emergency. This is not urgent. We know that you can get even if it's not three or four months to Ken's point, you know you have a little bit of time, so it's not urgent. >> number one, and you got a $15,000 sinking fund.

>> not unexpected. >> now want a $30,000 car. So, you've actually done everything that we would teach you to do. You knew this was coming.

You actually are the nerd, Michelle.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah.

It's not an emergency. Yeah, and your fear, while being now it's validated, we

just solved it for you. So, it doesn't have to stop you from moving forward with Ken's plan. Hand warmers, wool blankets, >> and a charged cell phone will go a long way. >> phone, uh maybe AAA membership if for some reason you couldn't get there, they could I mean, you know, there's a lot of things here.

I'm just telling you I want you to get the $30,000 car, and so does Jade. So, we think it's three to four months of and I promise you I'm not the only person that has nursed a engine that is And by the way, the engine won't blow if it has oil in it.

I inherited a 1988 Nissan Pulsar from my

sister. [laughter] It was her first car, and then when she stopped driving it, I got it, and I had to the transmission was so messed up that she had to let it sit before it could go in reverse. You had to let it warm up for like 10 minutes, and I had to pour oil in it almost every day.

>> Yeah. And you can do it. Is it obnoxious? Yes. But is it better

than taking 15k out of your emergency fund? I hate touching my emergency fund.

Never. Never.

I love it. Never. Michelle, you're a good man. Uh you got two options. Go buy the $15,000 car, and then upgrade later like Jade said, or wait three or four months to go get you a case of oil.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio alongside the fabulous Jade [music] Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman, and we're so happy that you're with us. Jade's going to take lead on your money questions, and if you are feeling burned out or you just stressed out, no life

balance as relates to your work, uh I

help people win in those areas as well.

We did a survey recently, Jade, where we heard from the tribe. They said, "We are feeling that way." And that affects your money, by the way. So, uh here to help on those specific questions as well. Laura's joining us now in Hartford, Connecticut. Laura, how can we help today?

All righty. I've got a residential real estate property that my mother owns in Brooklyn, New York. Uh

it's currently in a trust, and when she passes, it will be inherited by myself and my three siblings. Hey, Laura.

Laura, can we see if we can have you adjust your phone so we can understand you a little bit better?

Sure. Sure. Is that better? Oh, so much.

Thank you. Great. Great. So, um the property is worth about $2 million. It's a um residential property. It's got two rental units on it. It's being rented.

Uh I am debt-free and ready to retire in 2026. My husband's already retired.

I've got two siblings that when we inherit this property would like to uh knock it down and develop it into a four-apartment building, which I'm guessing it'd run about $4 million, which means each of us would be about a million dollars in debt. Oh, boy. >> others And I've got two other siblings that just want to sell sell it and divide the profits by four. How do I convince the two that want to sell it I mean, sorry, that want to invest it that that's a terrible idea?

If I heard you correctly, I'm just asking, is it three to two?

two?

It's myself and another who want to

sell, and two others that want to >> Okay, two on two. So, so we're split down the middle. Right. And they either want to develop it or just keep it and divide the rental income amongst the four of us, which is awful. And the assumption is that all everybody should just be willing to go into a million dollars of debt to do this. >> Mhm. Exactly. Well, that's absurd.

>> Or become landlords, right? Cuz they they've given you two options.

Develop it or we just rent it.

Right. And the rental income it'd probably be $1,000 each a month, which

in my mind is worthless. Well, if the two siblings were so willy-nilly to say, "Hey, just

fork over a million dollars," then why don't you tell them to fork over the money to buy you out?

They don't have it, and I don't have it.

No no no hold on. No, but But No, I

think, Jade, you're actually on to something. So, so Laura, if it were me,

I would say two things, um maybe three.

We'll We'll count We'll count them in a second. Here's what I Here's what I would do. Um number one, I would make the case that what you're asking me to do is to go into debt, and I don't do debt, so it's off the table. You've got to make it super clear to them where they're like, "Oh, she's like doesn't appear to be movable on this.

It's just I'm not doing it this stage of my life. Hubs is retired. I'm just not going to go into debt for scenario one." Secondly, I'm going to get out of your way quick.

interested in getting $1,000 a month. That's like peanuts for me at this stage of my life.

>> Right. Okay? And then uh three, I'll

tell you what I would do. If you want to take out a loan, which they're their option number one is to take out debt to knock this down and they can take out money and pay you your share of the two

million dollars. >> Right, which is less than the debt that they would take to develop it.

>> what I cuz if they want to take out debt, they're going to do it anyway. >> Yeah. And that's not you're not on the hook. So you go, "Give me my money. Let me get out of the way." Here's what I don't want to do. I don't want my value system That's right. to create conflict.

So I've told you what I'm not going to do. Let me tell you what I will do.

Here's my cut of the two million.

Yeah. >> And so you part of your whole debt structure, you give me my cut and guess what I'm going to do. I'm going to walk into the sunset with my husband and we're going to be in Cancun well and we'll talk to you Thanksgiving. Yeah.

That's what I would do. Make the math make sense for them because I and and it's the end of the day. It's the end of the day so correct me if I'm wrong Ken, but I see two million dollars and I see four people. So each of you has got 500,000 in this. That's right.

So are you telling me that they would rather fork over one million a piece instead of 500,000 a piece?

Or do nothing and divide the rent and be landlords for the rest of our lives, which is a terrible idea. It's horrible.

But now let me ask you this. They can't do any of this without you, correct? It does it take a majority rule?

Or I mean excuse me, is it a unanimous decision or how's this going to go down?

I I believe it has to be all four need to agree. It does? So Laura, my did you

ever see the movie Braveheart?

>> [laughter] >> No, no, but I think I need to. You got to go watch Braveheart tonight. All right, there's a there's the penultimate scene. Okay?

And uh in this history, I'm not going to tell you the whole story, but there's a scene where the English army is they're on horseback and they have a huge army and they're coming after the Scots and the Scots have got axes and you know, it's just it's just a little rabble-rouser group led by Mel Gibson.

And Mel's got a plan. Okay? And he knows that the British are going to be overconfident and they're coming at him, okay? Long story short, he's got these long poles.

They've cut trees and they're waiting for these horses to get close enough so they can lift up these sharp things and and here's the here's what he says to the guys. The horses are thundering down on them and they're freaking out and he goes, "Hold." And they get closer and he goes, "Hold." [laughter] And so my message to you is, Laura, it's a unanimous decision, hold the line.

Option one, nope. Option two, nope.

Option three is give me my 500 grand and you all go bananas. I'm not going to hold up your vision at all. I think it's the only thing they're going to want to hear and I think that's the only thing they should hear from you. So no to

the debt and and developing it, no to being a rental and yes to give me my

500k. Hold. Hold. Hold. Doesn't have to

be ugly. Just Guys, I'm you can do this.

I'm not stopping you. But give me my money. >> It takes 500k. Right. You're willing to go into a million.

Give me 500k. >> Thank you. I that I'm super passionate about that. I think Laura, that's the play. Jade? I I I agree. I agree. Yeah, you've

got all the cards.

They can't do it without you.

>> they can't do it without me. >> super simple.

And by the way, here's the messaging. I want you guys to be able to do this. I would start with, "Hey, you know the plan? I've thought through it. I want you all to be able to do it. Knock it down.

Rebuild it. It's going to be fabulous." But do it without me. >> One caveat. I don't have the stomach for it. My husband and I got a different plan for our life. Want you to be able to do it and so here's the easy thing.

Buy me out. And I'm cheering you on.

Mhm. I would frame it that way.

And and again, I don't know how they're going to react, but I think it's a good deal.

Listen, I've already said it. So I agree with you. So Laura, don't let any family pressure or any of that change your mind cuz you're going to end up resenting them. >> Yeah, I agree with him. I already do, so. Who's the ring I was going to say, somebody's the ringleader in all this and it's not you. Who's the ringleader?

Uh my older brother who thinks this was a family it's a home that our great

great-grandparents were born in and it needs to stay in the family. Got it. Got it. Got it. >> Oh by the way, it is.

It's staying in the family.

You're not holding any of that up. Hey, hey brother, it's staying in the family.

It's just going to take 500,000 over here in my bank account and it's going to be super simple.

>> [music]

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>> Buying or selling your home is a very [music] big deal and there's a lot of misinformation out there. You know, the clickbait stuff on social media, you know, articles, things that are designed to kind of pull you in to make it a bad decision. And we are always going to be here at the Ramsey Show to help you make sense of the latest trends and make good decisions.

Mhm. So just to give you a snapshot, the median home prices have been holding steady around 424,000 in October, about

one in five saw a price cut,

which means buyers might have more room this winter to negotiate. Mortgage rates obviously dipped slightly in October, uh but rates are unpredictable and they move up and they move down. So we're not making decisions based on the rate, it's when are we ready to buy uh based on our

cash position uh to be able to have a good down payment and to be able to afford uh where you are. So this might be a great time for you. Don't get stuck in the headlines to learn more about housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/ market. That's ramseysolutions.com/market.

Let's go to May who joins us in Raleigh, North Carolina. May, how can we help?

Hi sir, how are you doing today? >> Great. How are you?

Good. Um reason I'm calling is I wanted to ask so me and my husband are looking at buying a house next year and we're looking at buying a house between 350 to 400,000 dollars um and we have about a 200,000 dollars in assets for the down payment. So my question is, does it ever make sense to put down more than 20% even if you'd be able to afford the mortgage with that 25% of your take home rule taking into account?

Yes. So I I want to make sure I understand. So you could you're obviously putting down almost half. Did I understand that correctly?

Yes. Yes. And you're saying you don't need to put down half, you could put down 20% and it would still be okay for you. Exactly.

My thing my only the only thing that I might say no to that would be if you have consumer debt and if that money would be better spent paying off your debt ahead of time. But if you don't have consumer debt, then I'm like, "Yeah." Because the best way to pay for a house is if you could put everything down, right?

So do you have any other debt to speak of? No, we're totally debt-free, no student loans, no car debts, no debt whatsoever.

So The only other thing only other thing would be if it's a place that really needs a lot of renovation or a lot of work, you might want to reserve some of that money to do you know, some some you know, renovations on the house. Is there anything like that to speak of?

No, but that was part of my question was we have an emergency fund outside of that 200,000 dollars that's about five months of expenses, but I've heard that you're supposed to have another like bucket of savings once you buy a house for things that could just naturally break. So I wasn't sure how you figure out how much of that like how much you should save for a house for just like in case the HVAC system or roof or something like that needs No, I mean that's what your emergency fund is for and this keeps coming up Ken.

We've talked about this every hour of the show today.

And so if that happens to be your AC going out in the middle of summer, then yeah, you dip into the emergency fund and pay it off. If you've got five months of expenses, if it would make you feel better to have six months, then then go ahead and do that. Um but yeah, I don't I think that you're good to go. I think that what's happening here and this is your choice to make with your husband, but I think what's happening is 200,000 dollars is a lot of money.

Is there right? And I think it's smart that you're just weighing out all your options. So if there were something

that you were going to do with that money other than put it on the house in your mind, what would it be?

So really the only other thing I could think of is putting it in the market and letting it grow so that way maybe in the future we have the ability to buy like a rental property with putting more than 50% down or trying to buy it fully in cash while only having a mortgage on the house. So we don't have any hard set plans. It would just be does it make more sense to let it grow in the market and then maybe buy a real estate property in full later for something like a rental property. Well, the only reason I wouldn't do that is I kind of like it's almost and we've used this analogy for other things before, but it's almost like when you're flying on the plane and they tell you to put the oxygen mask on you first before you, you know, put it on the kids or the people who are next to you.

There's there's part of me that says, if it's my primary residence, that's me and I want to protect me first and put my myself in the best possible situation first, like my residence, because let's think about this, Ken.

somebody loses a job, when somebody has a diagnosis, the number one thing they think about is am I going to be able to keep my home? That's where the security valve is, right? And so right now we're not thinking about that, but if we put ourselves in a scenario like I mentioned, that's the first thing we think about is is my home secure.

you know, the masks on these other things. Then I can start thinking about real estate, then I can start thinking about these other properties that I may or may not pay for in cash. I think that's a really good exercise, May. Have you actually sat down and said, "Okay, if we put 200,000 in it, what is our payment? What's our mortgage payment versus if we put 20% down?"

Yeah, I have done that a bit, just kind of online playing with like mortgage calculators and stuff. Um and really what it seems to be coming down to when I think when I try to figure out does it make sense to put it to the mortgage or to put in the market is mortgage rates and how much you expect the market to return, but from my understanding you're not really supposed to put things in the market that are short-term investments because they're so volatile. So I I don't know if that's really a smart analysis to do, but I have tried to play around with those numbers.

>> that's right. But what is the difference?

It's only I mean, I say only, it's a couple hundred dollars. Um so maybe three, four hundred dollars.

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. But you could think of it like I'm getting the best of both worlds because if I put the 200,000

down, I'm getting the security on the home front, but I also have $400 freed up that I can still go ahead and invest that and there is something to be gained from that. So I'm almost doing the best of both worlds in that way. Yeah, I I just I was thinking of that in in the scenario that you gave us, Jade. It's smart.

You know, if if if things were to get crazy, you go, "What would be like a like I just wouldn't have to worry." That's right.

you know, um I I think it's a good question.

Really glad you called and wow, I I must

say the fact that you guys have been so disciplined to save up $200,000. We don't talk to many people that have saved up that kind of money. So I say kudos to you. You guys are in great shape and I would ask on the investment question, what is your retirement situation? What's your nest egg right now? So our retirement between us two total is at 295 and we're both 26 years old.

So almost $300,000.

>> Way to go. Oh, see, I'm going to tell you something. You guys are 26.

If you did nothing and I know that's not what you're saying, nor are we recommending, but if you did nothing at this age, that 295 is going to be a lot of money. So just your normal baby step four, you're going to be in phenomenal shape.

>> Well, tell us about your income cuz income alone is telling like the fact that you can do this is telling me you guys are high income earners. What do you earn? Yeah, so right now, so I recently switched jobs, so right now together we earn 200. I was at a previous job where my base salary was about 100 where it is now, but I got very large bonuses and so I've been taking those bonuses and investing that into my retirement and things like that.

So that's kind of how we built this nest egg. So I have kind of made that switch now that I have the nest egg, which I was a bit much.

Yeah, we are civil engineers, so I went into kind of the project manager side of civil engineering and he went into the design aspect of civil engineering.

>> Love it. Love it. That matches up, by the way, with our Ramsey millionaire study. >> It does. Yeah, you guys >> Engineers were in the top five.

Uh and there's two 26-year-olds killing it. You know, listen, I know they have great jobs, but they're in phenomenal shape. So this idea that, "Oh, it can't be done in today's world." And I and I'm not minimizing how expensive things are, but man, they're doing it. Uh and what a great place to be in.

But yeah, I yeah, put it on the house. >> Put it on the house. That's what I would do. >> Let's not forget about that.

>> Absolutely. And it's yeah, it's an investment. There's more than one way to invest. One way is the stock market, another way is in real estate.

Great question, May. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for the question.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, let's go to John in Kentucky.

John, how are you today?

Doing well. All right, good to have you on here and John is a Baby Steps

Millionaire and we love talking to the Baby Steps Millionaires because they've got great stories, right? And and they tell us how they did it. So John, thank you for that. Tell people how old you are. Uh 28, my wife, Jenna, is 30. Wow.

>> 28 and 30, that's impressive. Okay, what is your net worth?

Uh 1.2 million. Hey. All right, no messing around there. All right, give us the mix of the 1.2.

Uh so the largest portion is in real estate. We've got about 550,000 in real estate. Uh 350 in retirement. We got a couple hundred thousand in non-retirement investments and then about 120 in uh

just liquid cash. Wow. So you're only 28. What kind of what what Where what's the real estate? Is that your home or is that rental properties? What is this?

Uh a little of both. We've got uh our area here in Kentucky, the the market is uh friendly for for real estate investments. So we've got a couple homes within that 550, but uh our home and uh

two rental homes. Wow. And what's your income?

Uh it it varies uh

considering the just varying on the the number of overtime hours I work, but it averages out to about 300,000 combined between the two of us. 300 to 350,000.

>> Good for you. >> Wow, way to go. Killing it. >> guys do?

Uh so my wife's a uh

uh software application specialist and

uh I'm originally a pipefitter by trade,

but I've been working as a piping superintendent the last three years. So I I travel around uh managing industrial

construction projects. Okay. Yeah, go ahead, Jade. >> [laughter] >> I mean, I'm I'm I'm listening to this.

I'm I'm I'm 40-something and I'm thinking, "Okay, if I could have got got been smart enough to get started when you guys were, that would have been amazing." So how did you get good at money? How did you know this is these are the things we need to be doing, we need to be avoiding debt, budgeting, etc. What put you onto that early on?

Uh honestly, I I think about the age of nine, I was eight or nine, I was uh

I was in our garage where our dogs spent most of their time. That's where all their their food bowls were. I was feeding our dogs and realized that we were almost out of dog food and went in the house, I told my mom, "Mom, we're we're almost out of dog food. Add that to the grocery list." And she told me we can't afford dog food this week, maybe next week.

>> Mhm. And uh and and after that, you know, that that stuck with me. I remember going to baseball practice that night and that just it didn't leave my mind the rest of the day. And uh Yeah, it did.

So just uh my parents taught me to uh think before spending and to uh you know, make hay while the sun shines and and save what you can.

Uh three years. Okay. So

what had you saved prior to becoming married?

So I had coming into the marriage, I had

about 160,000 saved. And uh she had about

30,000 saved.

Um the the majority of our No, no debt.

Um I had a uh small auto loan several years ago, but but we've never never had student loans or really any kind of debt of any kind.

When did you start working? How old were you? 18. Okay. So I'm looking at I'm talking to a 28-year-old who's been working for 10 years and you've been able to save a lot of money and I love that you're a pipefitter.

I love that, you know, cuz it's like for too long in America we've looked down on the trades and now I'm talking to a dude who's rolling.

Got properties, no debt in your life, 28-year-old pipefitter. What would you say to parents who are worried maybe about their kids going into trades?

Uh I think uh well, I I'm a lot like you. I think that at 18

um I think you're too young to make a decision on what you want to do for the rest of your life and buy the college education. So, I think that I tell a lot

of folks that even if the trade isn't what you want to do for a career, uh get into it for an apprenticeship and and you get exposed to so many other careers within the

construction industry, the engineering, all the different avenues you can go within construction.

Um it's just a really good stepping stone into management just like I've done. It's it's a great place to start.

And and just just being a construction worker on the tools now, you can make so much money. It's a it's definitely a a worthwhile avenue.

>> So, here you are a a millionaire and in your social circles so social circles and your world, does anybody ever look down on you because you don't have a degree?

Uh yeah. My grandma, uh before she [laughter] passed, every time every time I would talk to her on the phone, she would ask me when I was going to go to school and start getting serious about an education. >> Right. Right.

>> uh for the most part, no. No, I'm really not. >> Oh, I love that. Um what is your saving What has been your saving plan?

I'd love to know what your budget looks like cuz you're definitely both of you are living on less than you make.

Uh I would say our our savings rate is

probably 75%.

>> I knew it. >> 70-75%. >> doing. You guys are squirrels, man.

You're just packing it in. [laughter]

I love that. >> What types of things do you do? I mean, obviously, you're stacking up cash. I'm not mad at it. What What does your lifestyle look like? What types of things do you do to to have fun, to really just enjoy what you've created?

Uh I I would say so we're we're both uh

outdoorsmen and and women. Um we bought

I guess what you'd call a vacation home in Idaho, a small cabin in Idaho so that

uh we can we can spend time hunting and fishing out there and that's that's uh pretty much what we do with our time. I I travel full-time for work.

>> Mhm. So, I'm not home much. So, when we do get time uh together, we we like to go out there. So, now what's the plan going forward? 28 and 30, you're on this massive track to be multi-millionaires.

You got no debt. You got properties. You

got a good job. What What's the dream at

this stage?

Uh that's that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out right now, what we're working on. Um

I'm we're trying to put together somewhat of a maybe a 3 to 5-year plan.

I love what I'm doing right now, >> Mhm. but I I realize that being home 3

weeks out of the year is not sustainable long-term. >> That's right. So, I I think using the upfront uh

earnings at such a young age to to set

ourselves up to to Yeah. create an income off our own investments and then maybe just get further into the real estate thing for myself when I'm ready to come off I got to pivot here real quick. This is what I do. I I I want to I want to help really quickly cuz I think it's pretty clear for you.

Um if if you never needed to earn another nickel, what would you do Monday through Friday?

Mhm.

You know, honestly, I'd probably just move to that little town of ours in Idaho full-time and just be a a handyman and help the ranchers out there >> Can I tell you? I knew >> whatever odds and ends they got. >> Can I tell you something? I think that that's what you ought to You You figure out your calendar, you and your wife. I do think it's crazy for you to be away from her this much for much longer given the financial situation that you're in.

You're crushing it. So, you could transition into this trade and maybe not travel as much. I don't care what the bridge looks like, but I'm going to tell you something. That answer, John, I want you to chew on because you gave me a real answer. Because you're going to be so financially free that you can go out to that area and maybe build something a little bit bigger, get into some real estate there, but stumble into a business around the stuff that you love, which is outdoors.

And I'm telling you, man, that's your future. Talk to your wife about that.

Say, "Hey, Ken put me on the spot and this is what I said." And let her start Let her start answering that question.

What would she do? >> Oh, she's she's right there with you.

All right. >> there with you. We'd go tomorrow if if it was solely up to her.

Well, so here's the thing. One last [music] thing.

That 9-year-old experience was seared on your conscience and you shared it with us and I think that is driving you right now and I think you're you're working crazy, you're doing a lot of amazing things, but don't let that scarcity mindset hold you back from the future that you've earned right now. That'd be my challenge to you.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day is Proverbs [music] 29:25.

It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you, but if you trust the Lord, you're safe. That You You might as well You might as well I feel like I hear you say that kind of stuff all the time. You might as well be preaching right now. And our quote of the day from Theodore Roosevelt, "In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing." Whoop. And

by the way, Yeah.

I I This is silly, but I'm going to share it cuz I think this is going to be powerful for somebody that's listening or watching today.

The worst thing you can do is no thing.

We've turned it into nothing, but when I see that, I go, "It's no thing." Yeah.

To do no thing at all is the worst thing. Well, people think they're not choosing, but doing nothing is also a choice. >> really bad choice. Some of you need to hear that because you know you need to make some tough decisions to change your financial life. It's just sitting there waiting for you to just do that thing.

And that one thing leads to the next thing and momentum is very very real.

That's why we teach the baby steps. So, don't miss that little truth there. We don't just do that scripture and quote just to, you know, throw it out there.

Let it hit you. Mhm. And receive it.

Ethan is up in Kansas City, Missouri.

Ethan, how can we help?

Doing Good. How are you, sir? Doing well.

Thank you guys. So, I'm recently engaged. Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you so much. So, just uh proposed a couple weeks ago. So, now the the big question is wedding and what that's going to look like. So, [laughter] I'm I'm more on We're kind of on two different ends of the spectrum here. I'm more wanting a smaller wedding

with some family, maybe close friends. I mean, I honestly would just elope, sign the papers, and let's do this thing. Classic Classic male response. All right, absolutely.

And my fiance on the other hand, she's more of let's have a bigger wedding with, you know, all all of our family, all of our our friends, and church members and show that biblical covenant in front of everybody. You know, it's the only wedding we're going to have, so let's let's go that route. So, really just kind of the question of how much should we spend on the on the wedding and what route we should go. I mean, the money is what's going to do the talking here in my book.

So, >> Absolutely. >> Who Who's paying for it first off?

So, her her her parents are putting 15,000 towards and then my parents are putting five. Okay, so you've got 20.

What about you guys?

That's Well, that's the thing is so we don't we we'd prefer not to have to go

into our own if if we if we don't have the choice, we don't want to have to spend any of our own.

>> Can you do what she wants to do on 20?

That I mean, I'm We We definitely could.

We definitely could. >> Really? So, I'm I I think I could plan a

I could plan their wedding for $20,000.

When he said a big wedding, like these are vocabulary words that people have different definitions of. So, when you said big, I'm thinking like >> Yeah, what is that? ice sculptures. >> people when she said the whole church?

Well, I mean, if it'd be like all family, extended family, friends, church, all that, I mean, it'd it'd probably be 400, 450, somewhere around there. That's That's what I'm saying. I don't think you're doing $450 wedding on 20,000, my guy. >> Not to guy. I've never [laughter] planned a wedding. I'm going to do it right now. Here's how you do that. Tell me, Ken. The ceremony is for everybody.

All right? >> Oh, we're playing this game. I'm trying to see what you do. >> YOU GOT TO HAVE A GOLDEN ticket to get to the party.

>> He's got 20 grand. You need to do a wedding on 20 grand, but she wants it to be in front of everybody. Then So, what we do is we do a lovely ceremony and the whole church that wants to come, they all get to come, but there is a >> if you're one of the scumbags that doesn't get to go to the party afterwards? I already know where I stand.

>> [laughter] >> Well, tell me these people, 400 people in the church, they all think they're coming to the reception.

>> get to go to the party, I'm not going.

>> And that solves the problem.

Thus, my brilliant I am a brilliant

strategist. I didn't realize this until now. [laughter] This is so clear in my mind, Ethan. Dead serious. So, here's what this is going to do. You've got 20 grand committed.

All right? You two have said, we would like to not put any money in. So, let's play this out. Let's go run it out. So, how would we do all the things we want to do? So, you tell your fiance, all right, babe, here's the deal. You want the whole church? We tell everybody in the church, we're doing a big ceremony, but we're going to do this thing debt free. Blame it on Ramsey. I don't care.

And you say, so what we're doing is is we're going to have a ceremony and we'd like we're going to have a little bags of rice and you can stand around and throw them at us. And then we go to the party spot with 20 of our select

with 100 of our select friends. And the budget will dictate that. Now, if she hears that Mhm. And I by the way, I want this I'm doing this so Jade can like push back for holes in my strategy cuz right now I'm super impressed with my strategy and it might be bad strategy.

But by bringing [laughter] this up to your fiance, then she gets to go, well, that doesn't feel right. And she has the Jade opinion, which is the female opinion and you're probably right. Well, I don't know. So, then we go, well, then we can't invite 400 people.

Mhm. How many people can we invite? >> Yes. And here's my thing. In 2025, do we

have to feed everybody just to come celebrate us? You could I think there's some strategic things you could do there. I don't think so.

I think what you need to do is because I I How much do mini corn dogs cost at Costco? >> need to stop, Ken. >> [laughter] >> I'm just saying, he's got 20 grand.

>> I would, if I were you and this is going to sound like wild and your wife is going to do this. I would books on this because Oh, is that something I can look up? Well, weddings there's etiquette around it. Like when you send, for instance, when you send out the invitation you know, you have to put the stamp on it for them so that they can just send back their RSVP, right?

You wouldn't give them an envelope without a stamp on it. That's considered bad etiquette, right? So, I would check the etiquette around Ken's idea. I'm not saying it's wrong.

I just don't know. >> Brilliance. It feels a little interesting to me. It might be fine though.

So, I would check on that kind of stuff to see is there a way that we can include people in the proper respectful way in one part of the wedding and maybe not in the other wedding. Just make sure you're doing it the right way.

Do does everybody that comes to a funeral go to the graveside service?

No. All right.

I don't know what Go ahead. Ethan, this is your call. I'm trying to save you money, buddy. Jade's trying to cost you money. >> [laughter] >> This got very dark very quickly.

>> It's the truth. So, so my my side of it

with So, we're we're we'll be any debt when we get married and I just I I think future and so knowing that we're we're on the same page about this and I totally agree when when we have kids, she's going to be a stay at home mom and so we'll be on one income. >> Mhm. And so I'm I'm an elementary PE teacher and then coach our middle school football and basketball team. Okay.

And so so for me, I just think future. When when are we going to ever be offered $20,000 ever again? Probably not.

they're okay. They're okay with you taking some of that money and just simply pocketing it for life. Not it doesn't have to go to the wedding.

Well, that's so I think in in some facets, some sort of wedding in in in some way, shape or form, a wedding is going to happen. And so to me, it's like, hey, why don't we, you know, put like make a $5,000 wedding and then we can take the other 15 and then we have that for our future when we're trying to get a house and have kids and whatnot.

>> let me throw this at you. If you invite the right people you will also get cash.

Okay, fair. >> Cuz that's what most people give you as a wedding gift and if they have their etiquette, they're not coming in with a crumpled up 20, right? They're giving you a decent gift. So I'm going to speak on behalf of all males. If you

were to tell me that for the rest of my life with Stacy, when we get invited to a wedding, all I got to do is the ceremony and then I don't have to go eat and do all that stuff, I get to go on with my life, I would be out of my mind.

>> But what's the best part? Is the better part the ceremony or the party? If you if you have to choose, I'm choosing the party. But that's with people you actually want to party with. They do not want to party with 400 people.

>> it doesn't matter. It Or is there going to be an open bar? It's too expensive.

No, we we both don't drink, so there won't be any alcohol. Okay, so then >> a lot of money there. >> a bunch of money. Hey, can I tell you my wedding didn't have an open bar either and that's why we were able to do ours. >> Mine neither. Anyway, trying to help you out, Ethan. I like all these scenarios. Here's what I would tell you. Uh having been married 27 years and I and I love marriage. Come

on, Ken, and say it cuz I'm right there with you. I'd get married yesterday if I could. Listen. I Listen, if it were up to me, I would have just done the little church ceremony and let's go. Yeah. I

didn't want to be at that reception. I didn't want to do all that. I wanted to take off on the honeymoon. >> Well, let me say it from the other perspective.

We had Sam and I had an awesome wedding and we paid cash for it and it was just what we wanted and it was probably bigger than what Ken is saying. Oh, it was bigger than mine. As a person who's been married, you know, less than you [music] know, 15, 16, 17 years I don't think about the wedding anymore. >> No.

You don't think about it either. I can't even remember half of it. The ceremony is what matters to me. Very important covenant.

All right, folks, remember this.

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## 145. Stop Chasing Payments and Choose Freedom | October 30, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:00:54 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common [music] sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey [music] Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney and we're answering your questions. So you can give us a call at88255225.

[music] Up first we have Emma in Ohio kicking

off the [music] show. Hi Emma. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> So basically um the car I'm currently driving um there's still $15,000 owed on

it. Um and it's not in my name. Um my mom's ex-husband signed on it for me and

the divorce [clears throat] was messy.

Um, so he's been letting me pay it off while I'm still in college. Um, but the payments are 420 a month and it's just too high for my income right now. Okay.

>> Um, and I've tried to work with him to, you know, get it dealt with and he's not very cooperative. Um, >> well, he should be. His name's on it. If something happens to the car, it's all in his That's That's >> Are you on it at all?

>> No. >> Oh, then just drop it back off to him.

>> Yeah, that's Well, that's what I'm planning on doing today. I'm actually driving home. I it's two and a half hours away. I'm driving home and I have the opportunity to get a car um for a thousand down from a family friend who owns a dealership and he'll let me basically pay 200 a month on it and it's a $3,500 car that's within my means and

it's a reliable car. Um and so I guess

that's my question. Should I just, you know, drop it off and tell him because he's the only problem is he's threatening to sue my mom.

>> Well, what what's what's his basis legally to do that? Like I mean Emma Yeah, I was going to say I mean there's not much he can do in a court system unless there was something in the divorce decree that states that this was an asset or something. I don't know if there was something in there about the car. Is there >> the the only thing that I know that was in there was that he basically has the right to repossess it if it gets behind.

Yeah. Which is exactly >> It's his car. Just hand it to him. Just give it to him.

>> Yeah. Um which is kind of what I'm trying to explain to >> How old were you when you took this loan out from him?

I think I think I was freshly 19.

>> Okay.

>> And I'm 21 now.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> I'm I'm torn and I'm I'm I'm I'm talking to Rachel here on your behalf. I'm torn between it's his car. It's he signed the note for it and he gave it to a teenager, >> which is his issue. >> It's his issue. Give it back. And also, if you were 17 or 16, this would be a no-brainer for me. Part of it is you were 19 and you shook hands and said, "I'll pay this thing." >> And so there is I mean

>> you're going back on your word is what John's saying. >> But you can't you can't afford it >> from a moral standpoint. Well, and if we're talking all morals, he should be able to say, "Okay, great. If you can't pay it, >> right, >> then as the guy that put you in this position, let me go ahead and just sell it and like, yeah, and help you figure it out." Um, >> but please don't then go jump in to another family loan situation.

>> That's what I was going to say. You're not going to like that part of my advice. >> Yeah, don't do that. >> What's your um your Are you working or are you just a full-time student?

>> I work and go to school. Yes.

>> Okay. And do you have any money saved?

>> Um, just the I have 800 saved right now.

Um, and my I'm engaged in my future.

Mother-in-law was going to loan me another 200. >> Oh, no. No. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. >> Okay. We got to stop the We got to stop this whole borrowing money in general, let alone from people that we know.

>> So, Emma, I mean, if And again, you called the show. So, what I would do, number one, drop it. Drop off the car.

It's in his name. It's his issue. And yes, are you going back on your word?

Yes. But he also did this to an 18-year-old. So, it is kind of like, okay, or 19. And I don't know. It is what it is. And so that's his issue he's gonna have to figure out. And then for you, how much do you make? How much do you make a month? If you don't have this car payment, you're not paying 420. How much extra margin do you have on top of this 420 per month?

>> Uh I would probably have uh 1,500 for the

month. >> Uh total or extra?

>> Uh extra would be um an extra 500.

probably 500.

Okay. So, honestly, what I would probably do, Emma, is I would just I would work and it's so inconvenient. I know it is, but the car you're talking about is what, $3,000 or something, and just say, "Hey, it's going to take You have $800 that you're starting with," which is great. And just say, "Hey, this is going to take me a couple of months.

I'm going to be inconvenience. I'm probably going to be asking people for rides here and there." You know, I mean, it's going to be annoying for a few months, but that way you at least have cash saved up so you're not continuing this cycle.

>> You you're you're going to owe money to your mother-in-law first, which means

you're going to be in debt to her, not only financially, and she might be a great a great wonderful person. If she

called into the show, I would say just give you 200 bucks if that's what she wants to do. >> Yeah. Cuz what's $200 going to do? I don't get it. >> Well, it's going to get her $1,000 as a down payment. >> Oh, for the car.

>> Yeah. You can't You have to borrow the down payment to then for the privilege of borrowing more money from yet another family member.

>> Yeah. >> In the middle of a situation that you're dealing with, which is you borrowed money from a family member, it just creates so much internal chaos.

>> Yeah. And it'll literally be three months. >> Yeah. >> Three months. >> Yeah. >> To pay cash for it. And And the fact that it's a $3,000 what? $200, $3,200 car, maybe you can talk them down to 3,000. Keep saying that 2500 bucks. If I go get cash, >> if I have cash, can I pay you this in 60 days? You know, and and I would figure way out because what that's going to start, Emma, is this new way of not just

looking at money, but acting out of a set of principles that is going to be good for you long term. And so, and this is a really small step to do that. So, in my head, I'm like, >> it's really encouraging. You know what I mean?

That it's that you have the opportunity to buy this car. It's not that much money. You're working hard. You're making some good money that you can set aside each month.

Um >> here's how exactly how I would have this conversation. At 21 years old, I would call the family member who's going to sell this.

>> Um my my fiance's family friend.

>> Okay. I would call that family friend and say the following. I am dealing with

a relationship issue where I borrowed money from a family member and it has

cost me tons of grief and so I've made a commitment to not put relationships not

put money between me and those that I love and care about and so I really want that car. I don't have $3,200 and I've

committed to not borrowing money, especially from friends and from family.

And so, please hold that car for three months and I'm gonna work really, really hard to save up that money. Either what's going to happen is they're going to say, "Give me a,000 bucks and I'll just sell you this car cuz that's pretty awesome and noble and I want to be a part of supporting a a young 21-year-old like that." >> Or, >> I'm promise you there's going to be $3,000 cars that are all over the place coming up. So, if they sell it, then so be it. >> The you Ubering around and getting rides for 3 months will change your life because you will never ever ever ever ever borrow money again.

never find yourself in a situation where you owe your stepdad and your stepdad's threatening to sue >> your exepdad. I mean, it's just like that. Yeah. >> Good grief. But yeah, great. I hate that you're in this situation. totally honor the I mean appreciate the call, but um I

don't think we would be doing our job if we told you yes, get out of this bad situation where you borrowed money from a family member and go do it two to with two other people. I I wouldn't sleep well knowing that we told you to go do that. >> Yeah.

>> [music]

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right, let's head to Chris in Pennsylvania. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so I have a performance review tomorrow and uh I wanted to get some tips about how to ask for a raise.

>> Um do you not have one built into that that's that's triggered by performance?

Uh nothing triggered by performance though. We typically get um you know

yearly cost of living increases and uh a

firm performance um bonus at the end of the year based on how well the whole company does. >> Okay. >> So how much is so how much is are you slated to probably how much will what percentage will your income increase after tomorrow and how much more are you wanting?

Yeah, I'm thinking it's been going up about 4% for cost of living and then, you know, the the last couple years for bonuses have ranged from $4,000 to $8,000. >> Okay. And what are you wanting >> and I'll bet >> what are you thinking?

>> I don't know. I've been I've been thinking about asking for a raise for a couple years and because of the economy and you know the things that are going on with COVID, I've just been sitting on it and I feel like the time is right um based on uh the increased workload that I've had over the past couple years.

Yeah. And I'm really getting to the point where my kids are almost college age and I'm looking to cash flow

college. And I don't want to use that as a reason to ask for the raise. Um because, you know, I feel like it should be based upon um my effort and my performance. Um but that's really what's driving it. Um I'm in baby step seven.

Um but I'm really, you know, trying to keep the kids from staying out of debt.

>> Okay. So, how much are you making a year right now? Um,

I'd say 125 is the base.

>> Okay. And then if you go out marketplace value for your line of work and what you're doing with your experience, how much should you probably be making considering your workload and everything?

>> I think it could range from starting there all the way up to maybe 150, 175.

>> Okay. Are you guessing, Chris, or have you done some research to know a lateral move at a different corporation or a different company would bump me up?

I've I've looked at a couple things, but I feel like they're all going to be in that range. >> Okay. So 150 isn't isn't wild. How long have you been with the company?

>> 10 years. >> Okay. So a good amount. Um yeah. Well,

we always say around Ramsay the phrase is always um that your raise is effective when you are. So when you are showing something that's going above and beyond that you are actually doing a workload that is more than what is

traditionally in bounds for the specific salary. I would have specific examples of that. I mean I would start with obviously a a you know a level of humility and gratitude um to your employer but to say hey here are the things that I'm seeing have increased over time. My salary has not kept pace with it. I have noticed that very similar positions in other companies are ranging more in this way. Um you know

can can we just talk through this or what is a what is a way a pathway for me

to be able to make more because that's my desire and you know kind of just open the floor and again with more humility than ever because I feel like from an employer standpoint a leader they're going to be more apt to want to help you if you're wanting to help yourself versus going in with demanding anything which you don't sound like a guy that's going to do that. I love that question.

When employees used to come at me and say, "Hey, I want a raise." That would always put me on the defensive. When they came in and said, "I want a path to

$100,000 or I want a path to

>> 150 in your case or I want a path to

175. Is there a path to 175?"

>> Um, then what you do is you are like Rachel said, it's an invitation. It's not an accusation. And that gives your

supervisor the opportunity to say dude I see how hard you work. There is like here's what's happening above me and you

are capped in as high as you could go or it gives him or her the opportunity to say well there's actually a leadership position opening up or this role is capped here but we've we've been thinking about you for another role. But it gives them an opportunity to talk through it and then I you are dead on right. I would not bring up I you have extra cost coming on your horizon that your boss needs to solve for you.

>> Um because that's man no boss wants to be put in that position. Um and so I think you need to ask yourself if like if they can't or if your boss says no,

what is your or what statement? Is your or what going to be? I actually like this job. I like making 125 base and >> but I may not be able to help my kids the way I thought I was going to be able to. So they're going to have to stay in.

They're going to have to Yeah. or I'm going to get on the market and try to go get one of these 150 $175,000 jobs.

>> Um, but asking them what is a path for

me here to 1501 175. Um, I think that's

a great way to open up that conversation.

>> So, actually don't say, you know, bring up because money doesn't typically come up in these reviews.

>> So, what would be the right phrase maybe to >> the It's starting with gratitude. The last few years I've made$125,000 with a

$4 to $8,000 thing is amazing. I'm

getting paid. I I I'm super grateful.

What is a path that I could move my salary to 150 or 175 here doing this job

that I'm doing or any other job in this in this company?

And that is that's a what I'm I want to

partner with you supervisor not a you

haven't been paying me fairly >> and I've caught you which puts them on the defensive.

>> Yeah. I don't actually feel that way but

>> but I am doing more than Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I think and I and I would be okay um because I do think depending on how your company structured and your relationship with your leader they may not even know what you're doing all the extra stuff. Do you know what I So, I think that's fair to be like, hey, listen, here's what I here's what's been on my plate and um I want to talk through this because I feel like I am adding a lot of value. So, I do want to figure out like how can I, you know, not just see that from a compensation standpoint, but also for the company.

I love adding value. I want to continue add value. What's my pathway to do more so I can make more?

>> saying what like I'm doing all here's my assignment and here's what I'm doing extra. Here's the other roles I'm taking on. Is there a path for me to 150 or 175

>> with all of this? >> With all this that I'm doing, is there a path here? And again, you want to you

want your supervisor, your leader to feel like you want to partner with him and continue to add value to the customers y'all are serving and to the company, not making it a you versus me.

You've been screwing me. I've been doing all this and and now I want this.

>> Um because in in a at the end of the

day, he's he or she's got hierarchy over you. They got power over you. And so entering into a fist fight with somebody that is ahead of you is a losing proposition. >> What's your position, Chris? What are you doing?

I'm a marketing manager. >> Marketing. Okay. I was going to say because sometimes those skills whether it's writers, marketers. I mean like sometimes the outside world, you know,

goes faster than a company is actually keeping up. >> And if you don't have a good, you know, compensation plan as a company, those

positions can outrun what you're paying.

And and this sounds so ignorant, but I think it's true. I think I think some leaders, depending on how big the business is, look up and they're like, "Oh my gosh, we haven't kept up with market value in two years, you know, and they may not even know like there could be a level of small ignorance. I don't know. Um I hope companies are run a little bit more efficient than that, but I think that is the case a lot.

Is it a small is it a small company or big company?" >> It's a big company. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, they may have they may have tears in place that they keep up with it.

But that's also always in the back of my mind, too, because I just know um those kind of positions, especially >> if they start to have a lot of value in the marketplace, they can outrun the average salary and a company doesn't even realize it. So, >> but keep your or what question, your or what statement, if you will, to yourself. If he says or she says no, absolutely not. You're paid fairly.

This is all this is going to top out. Are you going to then think to yourself, "Okay, I'm gonna get some side hustle work as a marketer or a social media marketer on the side to put my kids through college." Great.

Or, I'm actually going to go hit the market or I like this place. It's comfortable. I'm going to make some changes with my kids. You get to decide what you do next with that information. [music] But I always like the partnership question.

>> [music]

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Up next, we [music] have Carlos in Miami. Hi, Carlos. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me. Uh, quick question. I have uh since both of you have a PhD on the seven baby steps and I

only have barely a GED. I [laughter] want to ask you wanted to ask you a

quick question. Um for one split second

in 2020, my wife and I I'm 54, she's 52.

We make decent decent money. She makes about 170. I make about 115. We have three children. One of them is in college, two are in high school. And for one split sec second and around this time in 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic, we were on baby step seven.

>> We had everything. We had paid off the house. We did everything.

>> But now we're kind of like, okay,

obviously we have step one, we have step four. We invest probably 25% of our entire entire entire income into retirement. >> Hold on. Did you go back after you paid off everything? Did you go back and borrow some more money?

Oh yes. >> Oh no. Carlos Carlos, what did you do?

>> Backwards. We're supposed to go forwards. Like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.

>> You won. >> Yeah. We >> It's like you crossed the marathon finish line. You're like, you know what? I'm going to go back to the starting line and start again. >> What happened?

Well, we like I said, we were ready to start step seven and um you know, uh

things started opening up after COVID and we're like we would like to go here, we like to go there and we like to uh get this Mercedes and next thing you know, we're >> Oh, Carlos. Oh, no. You fell in Miami.

>> You went full Miami. >> You went full South Beach. Oh, >> yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, how bad is it? How much do you owe right now, brother?

Uh look, we have about uh $29,000 in

zero interest credit card debt with that we're we're we're trying to pay off. Um and then we have we have one lease of a

vehicle and the other vehicle is all the other vehicles are paid off. So we we decided to buy a car for each one of our kids and pay it off. So our daughter's car is paid off. Our second son's car is

about we only it's brand new car. We have about 17 grand. We're going to pay it off in exactly one year because we're sending three times the payments on a very low interest loan. Uh my car is paid off. Um so 29,000 in credit card

debt. Uh and >> 17,000 in a car loan and a car lease.

>> Wait, you you you said your wife makes what? 170 and you make what?

>> 115. >> 115. >> Oh, 15. I put 15. >> Okay. So you guys make about 300K. You said at the beginning of the call y'all do pretty well. Y'all are doing incredibly well. Okay. So, Carlos, okay.

Is that it? The credit cards, the lease car, and then the car payment. Is that it? >> That's it. >> Did you take out a second mortgage after the house was paid off? >> Oh. Oh, hell no.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Good. [laughter] >> At least we are on the same page there.

Okay. I just need everyone to hear this because this doesn't always happen. We get Carlo, we get people like Carlos every now and then that they do the baby steps and then they go backwards. So, I just want to know from you, Carlos, did you have more peace in 2020? financially

or today. >> Yeah. In 2020. But then the whole world opened up again and I was screwed.

>> Why were you there? >> You weren't screwed. You were >> You chose it. >> Yeah. You could have kept on going into >> well, you know, the whole world OPENED UP AND YOU KNOW, HEY, LISTEN, HOMIE.

[laughter] You You've got to take ownership of >> like it's like mom and dad went out of town and you're in high school and you're you didn't have to throw a huge kegger and you're like, I'm going to mom and dad listen out of town. What was I supposed to do? >> We had to do it. There was five kegs. We had to go get We had to fill them all up. And so listen, >> take ownership. You did it. But here's the thing, dude. 300 grand a year. You

can have this paid off like in three months if you'll just suck it up.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Why are you Why are you waiting a year?

>> Well, a year to pay off the car and >> pay off everything. >> No, Carlos, if you if you guys lived You don't have a house payment, okay? So, I know you have all the I know you have some car payments and stuff, but if you just lived on a hund,000, god forbid,

[laughter] >> you'll have $200,000 >> extra. And you put you put a quarter of your of your money away every month.

Stop for two months. >> Y'all have to be able to say no to yourself. Y'all's behavior has gotten completely out of control.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we like to travel.

That's our That's our key.

>> SO DO I. BUT [laughter] I SAY I CAN'T GO TO ITALY right now. Like I can't like you know what you mean?

>> No, I know it's different.

>> They look pretty on Google image like but I >> No, you see you're blaming you're blaming Miami. You're blaming the

>> number one international port of the of the world. >> Doesn't matter. Be a grownup, [laughter] bro. >> The the brand new Royal Caribbean ship is docking next month and I'm like, "Oh, we got to check that out." >> Oh my gosh, dude.

>> All right. >> You're giving me hemorrhoids, Carlos.

>> I don't know. I don't think you want I don't think you really want to be done for Carlos. I think you're I think you are fine with your life. That's how I feel. >> What do you do for a living?

>> No. Well, that's the other thing. I'm not getting paid right now cuz I'm a federal employee, but my wife is not.

But at least we have our check.

>> But here's the thing. We've noticed that we can't live off our check.

>> No [laughter] way. You mean y'all barely scratching claw on $170,000?

There's Tell me more, Carlos. Yeah, we have a live studio audience out here and they're all just sobbing for you.

They're devastated for you. >> I I told my wife last night, I go, you know, I'm going to call the show because we've proven one thing with this government shutdown with me not getting paid for a month. We can live off your check and then you use my check to pay off this stuff. [laughter] >> Good God. If y'all can scratch by here, hold on. You missed two humongous lessons, though. You missed the two bigger lessons, >> which is >> y'all make a bunch of money right now

>> and COVID happened >> and then y'all made a whole bunch more money and then >> the leaders of our government decided to sit in a sandbox and throw crayons at each other. >> And so what the the the thing you're missing here is >> there's always another there's always a day after the party, >> right? And in between those days after the party, you live like this is the last party that's going to happen, >> right?

you would have taken a whole bunch of vacations and gotten some nice cars. You wouldn't have bought your kids brand new ones that depreciated 20% the day they drove off the lot. But you would, your kids would be fine. You all be fine.

And you'd have 200 grand in cash in the bank. Oh, are you kidding me? >> Okay, I know this is you and listen, this government shutdown's going to happen. And then you're going to go, you're going to be like, "Dude, we can live off my check." And you're going to pay all this off in 3 months, which is all it's going to take or maybe two months for you guys.

And then you're going to that you're going to be like, "That boat's in the harbor." And you're going to go down there and you're going to start this whole thing over again. And then one of y'all's going to get like laid off or one of you is going to get the call that hey, go to the hospital cuz one of your kid like you're going to get those calls.

>> Yes, 100%. I think it's a lot easier to sell to my wife if we can say we can live off one of our checks and take the other one and it there's a layer beneath that and you're not you're not hearing me. The greatest thing you can give to your wife is to say, "Hey, for the first time in our marriage, I want to act like grown-ups." >> That's the hard thing for me, Carlos. I know we're joking around and having fun because listen, I love a great ch like it's fine.

like like the things you're saying, a nice car, a nice trip, those are not bad things. >> They're awesome things, >> but you're doing it out of order and you're doing it in a level of impulse and a little bit of just kind of of immaturity. >> Yeah. >> And so there's, you know, Dave always says that children do what feels good.

adults devise a plan and follow it. Like there's a level of growing up. And and to say this too, Carlos, you have two kids in the Do are your kids still in the house?

>> All three kids are still in the house. Yeah. the college one has a year left and the other one that's fine. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm just saying like what are you setting for them? The example. I'd rather set an example of hey, we have a level of limits and boundaries because that's what money we have to with money.

Like that that is part of the name of the game. We can always make more and all of it. That's great. It's not a scarcity mindset mindset, but we have to live within our means because that creates a level of peace and stability.

So when I get, you know, furled and I'm and I don't get a paycheck, we're totally fine. And guess what? We can still go on the Royal Caribbean cuz we have no debt and we're able to save up and like we have a great income, but we're living with a level of reality and

and there's a little bit that you guys are just like, "Oh, that feels right. Let's just go and go go." And what scares me is you both sound like that, you and your wife. Usually there's like one boring [music] person in the marriage that doesn't want to spend or do anything. And then you have the partyier. But both of you, I mean, it that's what it's gonna take, Carlos, for you guys to buckle down and just say, "Hey, we are going to live on less than we make significantly.

>> You can live off half of her check, >> this lease, clean up the car and the credit cards, cut up the credit cards, [music] and we're going to live life differently." I don't know if you're going to do it, Carlos. I don't know. But >> I want peace for you. I just can't want it more than you want it for yourself.

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>> [music]

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If you are wondering [music] if you are on track with the baby steps, well, you can find out. You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just [music] for you.

Just head to the show notes if you are listening on YouTube or podcast and you

can click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. All right, let's go to Martha.

She is in Florida. Hi, Martha. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Yes. So, um

I uh am just wondering um if

you know if if I should file for bankruptcy or not. >> Oh, what's going on?

>> What's happening? >> So, um we've kind of overwhelmed ourselves, mine and my husband. Um and about 90% of the debt is mine.

>> Um and >> you know it, >> what does that mean? Tell me what that means. >> Um >> what's the debt? He, you know, we have about like including um his debt with

mine, we have about 20,000 in credit card debt. Um about 12,000 in personal

loans. Um I have about 15,000 in

collections. >> Um >> is that credit card collections or medical debt? >> That's that's medical. >> Medical. Okay.

Um they have I have about 15,000 in student loans. And I know that doesn't go away with bankruptcy, but um we have um 16,000 in car loans.

>> Okay. >> And um >> are those two separate cars, Martha?

>> No, it's just one >> one car. >> We have one car that's paid off. >> Okay. Wonderful. Okay, keep going.

>> Um and then we have our mortgage. And our mortgage is about probably 70% of our income >> per your payment. Your mortgage payment is taking 70%. Okay. Um, and for the

house, how much is the house worth?

>> Um, it's right about 285,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you have left on the mortgage of that?

>> 277,000.

>> Okay. So, it's basically a wash.

>> Um, yeah. My husband, we haven't we haven't we haven't lived here not even a year yet. >> Okay. And how much? We tried, >> we were talking about, you know, selling the house, but then we looked at our contract and since it was a USDA loan, we can't sell the house until we lived here a year. >> Yep. Yep. And when will a year hit? What month? >> Uh, December.

>> Okay. Coming up. >> You can put on the market right now and put a 30 or 60 day contingency. You can't afford a house if it's 70%.

>> Like, yeah, I absolutely 100% agree with you. And my husband is just like completely not interested in selling the house. um he wants to like get rid of

all of our other debt and then keep the house. >> Okay, so those are two separate conversations. Yes, we need to get rid of the debt regardless of the house payment. But if your house payment

for sure is more than 50% of your income, but we even say 25% of your

income. So no, you have too much house.

So your husband needs to understand the math of you can't live your life with 30% of your income.

>> Like that's what it ends up being. So yeah, no, you guys have too much house. you bought too much house. Um, how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, we make I currently, you know, do Door Dash and Uber, you know, cuz I I am a full-time student. Um, and but I am also um starting a job in January.

>> Okay. But >> how much will you be making a year in the job in January? >> I It really depends. Um, it's a tipped worker's wage. Um, so it really just depends. Um, I worked there, you know, a few years ago and I was making uh around 30,000 a year. >> Okay. Okay. And how much does your husband make? >> Uh he makes 56,000 and he works two jobs. >> What? What? Hold on. You're going to school. What are you studying?

>> Um I'm going for social work.

>> And so you're going to get a degree that you've paid a bunch of money for, but you're going to go back and make the same exact money you made two years ago without that degree.

>> Uh no, I just um I I don't have my degree yet, so I'm still going to school for it. Um >> I know, but when you get this job in May. >> Oh, okay. So, you're taking another job in January that's going to hold you over until >> May to make it.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then when you graduate in May, Martha, and you start a position, what on average do you think you'll probably make if you are using your degree and you're in it for social work?

state is about 50,000. Yeah.

>> A year. >> Okay. Mhm.

Okay. Um Well, you're not bankrupt. You guys have a massive mess on your hands that do not file bankruptcy though. >> Yeah. No. Is gonna it's going to take um

some significant sacrifice of time and energy for you guys to clean this up. So it is very doable. Um and so what I want to start

with is there's a couple of of highlight if the car do you know if you Kelly Blue Book the $16,000 car how much you could sell it for? >> I have. Um Kelly Blue Book says it's about $3,000. It's $3,000.

>> Yeah. >> When did you Did you guys roll over bad equity from another car into this loan?

>> I did not. I bought it out I, you know, bought it, you know, I had a clean slate when I bought the car um about 3 years ago. Um, >> for how much? How much did you buy it for? >> Um, I got it for about 18,000. My

interest rate is pretty high. >> What is it? >> I think it's about 18%.

>> Did you buy it at one of those corner

markets?

No, I bought it through CarMax.

>> Yeah. Okay. Martha, did you when you looked on Kelly, did you look at kellybluebook.com?

>> Uh, yes. >> And did you do dealer trade in or did you do like an individual selling to an individual? >> I did individual.

>> There's no way it's >> I just don't think it's $3,000. What What kind of car is it?

It's a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder, but it

has a lot of miles on it because when I

bought it, it had about 80,000 and then in three years we've gotten it up to 150. My husband, you know, he works out of town and he also um >> I just don't think it's $3,000 part time. >> Yeah. I don't know. Okay. Well, I would do some homework digging there because if you can do um gosh, if you could sell

it for even I don't know 8 9 I mean I don't know. It may be a wash. she may be stuck with it. Um the medical the collections um from the medical debt.

Have you contacted them at all?

>> Um I did contact them to get you know how much I owe like everything I owe. Um

but I haven't set up like any payment plans with them yet. >> Okay. >> Um but you know it's almost to the point where you know they're they are contacting me either you know. >> Yeah. Bad. Yeah. Most bad debt, >> credit card debt for sure, and sometimes medical debt. You can actually talk them down significantly. Sometimes pennies on the dollar depending on what it is. What's it through? Is it a collections agency that has it right now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, yeah, I would tell them like, hey, I have no money. I cannot pay this,

you know, $15,000. And they may settle it with you, Martha, for 5,000. I mean, I don't know. >> Usually, you have to have cash.

>> Yeah, [clears throat] you would. You would. But I'm just saying like you want to be able to get to a position where that is at least the one debt that and the car were the ones I was trying to kind of finagle for you to see what we could figure out to to get out of this.

But usually debts and collections you're able to negotiate. So remember that. So that 15,000 hopefully can get

significantly down and if you actually get them to a place where they will take that payment and you've negotiated, get it in writing. But that's what I would do. So, I would just start honestly, Martha, with the baby steps. And you guys, I mean, your income isn't, you know, terrible.

I mean, if you're making 30 starting in January, 86,000, but the house is a painoint. You You have what John said, put it on the market. You have to like there's no way you guys can afford this house. >> And Martha, I've done this.

It was overwhelming and it was a hard conversation. My wife

cried when I said we have to sell this house. I moved us into a residence hall apartment. I mean, it was it was I was and I was the associate dean of the university and I was I was embarrassed for myself. >> But that's what we had to do because we had a math problem >> and underneath your math problem, you have a relationship issue which is you you you need to be able to tell your husband, I'm not safe here.

I don't feel good. I don't feel safe in this house. We owe too much money. I'm getting buried by this thing.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, getting getting the house sold, which I know is a feat, that's going to be, you know, hopefully I think we're seeing on average it's about 60 days on the market. But, I mean, I'm praying for you guys by February.

Hopefully, you have an offer on the house. you have a new job and you're like you guys are starting this process and then and then Martha I would just start working my way down the debt snowball and I would be paying off the personal loan uh the student loans and then going to the to [music] the car and then to the credit cards but don't be digging yourself into a hole while trying to get out. So [music] you guys need to stop the debt. You got to you got to cut up the credit cards.

You got to be done.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show [music] in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

We are taking your calls at88255225.

Up next we have Christopher on the line and Christopher is in Florida. Hi Christopher, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> My question [clears throat] is I have $10,000 worth of credit card debt. I'm wondering if I should use uh money from an old retirement account, a 403b, to

pay off that credit card debt.

>> No. >> No. >> What have you done with that 403b, the old one? Have you rolled it into another fund or an IRA or is it still there with your old company?

>> It's still there with my old company and I just moved in July, so I'm I'm settling into the new company right now.

>> Gotcha. Um, but if I can explain, a year ago I was at $32,000 of credit card debt. >> Nice. >> And I paid it all off. I paid Yeah. I paid it all off before I moved in July.

>> Okay. >> Um, it it basically came on because I had a car uh um repairs that I needed to

make. $12,000 of disaster anyway. Okay.

>> But then I paid it all off. I took a second job. I paid it all off. I moved to Florida. And then I had $10,000 in

repairs for my house.

>> Okay. >> And I had to put that back on the credit card. >> Okay. >> Because I didn't have a savings s I didn't have a savings yet because I had just paid it off. >> Yeah. >> So I'm I I I'm sick and tired of being

sick and tired and I look at my credit card. >> Totally. Totally. How much money do you make a year? >> I uh I'm at 100 grand in salary.

>> Okay, perfect. >> Okay. Can I challenge you on one thing, Chris, and this is going to be key to you getting through this.

Um, I want you to say the words, not I

had to do this stuff with this house. I

want you to use the words I chose to, cuz that >> No, I I had to. It was repairs, uh,

damage to I could not do anything with the house, rent it out, sell it, or anything unless I made this repair.

>> Right. But to but to John's point, you could have you could have paused, taken on a second job, saved up 10,000 over two to three months, and then gone back and done the repair. >> See what I'm saying? Like it's it's just >> I mean, >> you could have though, like that like Yeah. But just in the moment because it was it was sewage backing up. I was in a desperate situation.

>> I needed to get this. >> Totally get that. But the the the key to

I I think the the you and I both we both

and Rachel, we live in a culture that says everybody else has to come rescue us and everybody else is the cause of our challenges. And I want us just to sit in the driver's seat of our own lives and say, "I had an emergency. I didn't have any money. I chose to deal with this

right away. I had sewage backing up in my house." And when they dug in, it was a wild, wildly bigger deal than I thought. And I went and borrowed $10,000. Just shift. It's not about blame. It's not about being a vict. It's none of that. It's just about you saying, "I did these things instead of these things happened to me and so I had to go." It's just that tiny little shift because then you're in the driver's seat of your own life about what you're going to do next. and 80year-old you like,

would you go borrow $10,000 at 30% 35%

to pay off this credit card?

>> No, I wouldn't. >> Okay. So, if you cash out this 403b, you're borrowing that money at 20% taxes or 30% taxes plus the penalty, you're borrowing that money at 30 something%.

>> Okay? Because so in my mind I was thinking that money is making me 10% return every year and the credit card is

at 15%. So I you're you're actually

flipping it on me which I'm grateful for because I was thinking I'd be saving 5%

of you'll be borrowing it. You'll be pulling that money. How much is in that 43B account?

>> It's 42,000.

>> Okay. So you'll probably get what? 30.

>> No, you wouldn't get that much. You get 25 28

>> probably. Yes. Yep. >> And so just do the math on how long it would take you to earn that back.

>> Yeah. >> In the in the account. Yep.

>> Yeah. So what I would do, I would meet with um one of our smart investor pros in your area and figure out a way to take get that 403b out because not keeping retirement. This is true for a 401k. When you leave a job, you want to just roll it over to an IRA. Um so that you have full control and it's out it's out of the company that you used to be at. So, I want you to roll that over it, but to John's point, not touching it.

It's not worth the taxes and the penalties, and then and then getting yourself in a position where you not only pay off this credit card debt, but then you bump up that to that emergency fund as soon as possible. And that urgency is what causes the second job.

The urgency is what cuts the lifestyle and all of it. And you know, not to belabor this point, Christopher, but it's just a good example just to say out loud again is um we get so many calls on

this show with exactly what you were saying at the beginning of like I had to do this. And what we force people to do

and again it's either well my car broke down, I had to go get a car payment because I have to have a car or I was going to college there's I didn't have any money saved so I had to take out a student loan. You know what whatever the cause is that causes us to go into debt.

>> We hear one line of thinking meaning that there's no options. And when you feel like you there's only one singular option, this is the only thing I can do.

Debt is going to be the route that's just right there and available. And so what we want to push people to, not just you, Christopher, but people listening is when you get backed in a corner of a situation and thinking this is the only way I can do this. The only way is with debt. That's it. That's the only way.

I'm going to push you for options A, B,

C, and D because there's always other options. But when you feel like there's only one option, we usually don't make a great financial decision. And can we can I just call this out, Chris? This is the worst. You busted it for a year to pay off 30 grand.

Like, and you got to be tired, right?

[laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. You're so frustrated.

>> And I mean, I I I was working in a in a

ministry job and then took a job waiting

tables at night.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Which which by the way, >> you shouldn't have to do that. You're serving people all day long and to pay your bills, you got to go to another job. That stinks, man. Like, we'll sit here with you on that. >> Well, the the good thing is two good

things is this change in job really

boosted my income. >> Excellent. >> Uh it made me move across the country and then I do have a renter that's coming into the uh into the house the

first of the month and it's actually one of those situations where I feel like I'm also helping her out to get on her feet. >> Cool. And so I know that everything is working out, but it's, you know, looking at the options of do I go and find another serving job? Yes.

Do I go and drive for ride share >> for three months or a couple more? It's going to be miserable. And then just make a plan right now. We're talking to you right before Halloween weekend.

Make a plan that February 1, you owe nobody anything ever again. >> Yeah.

>> I'm single. >> Okay. And and the job boosted my income.

>> I'm so glad. So every Have you done a written budget? Much more. >> Okay. Have you done a budget? Yep. Okay.

How much? And I have >> Wonderful. How much? >> And I did I mean I changed my lifestyle to you know I shop at Aldi. I don't go out to eat. You're so much extra do you

have per month with just your normal job. Just the new one.

>> Uh 2,800. >> 2,800. Okay. So, that's what's crazy about the math is I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you know, if you go and you make an extra, let's just say um 2,200 a month,

you know, you're at the you're at 5,000. You'll have this paid off in 2 months.

So, and which is the holidays, which sucks, but maybe you get better tips because November, December, and then

like what John's saying, and then keep doing it for two more months. Rack up another 10 grand to set aside for your for your emergency fund. And then you can actually start saying, "Okay, now I feel good. >> 4 months for the rest of your life. >> I I go back to my normal job, but I'm going to keep my income limited to get that 3 months." Yeah. [music] Back on.

And then you just pick back up. But yes, within 5 months, Christopher, your life could look different.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> One of the best ways to spread the word about this show, to be able to help your friends and family [music] and other people even around the world, is just sharing it. Whether it's on your social, maybe you subscribe, you comment, whatever you can do um to help spread the word, that is so so helpful. And even on some platforms even like YouTube, if you are commenting or subscribing, it helps the algorithm to get the show in front of more people.

And so you are our best way to spread the word honestly. So we are so grateful for you all that listen and watch. Um and we're praying that this show helps you. It's why we do it every single day.

Hoping to give somewhat good advice, right, John? Somewhat. And >> and to be able to help uh when it comes to your life and your relationships, your career. And so just um continue to help us do that by liking, subscribing, and sharing the show. We appreciate you.

All right, let's go to Kristen in Arkansas. Hi Kristen, welcome to the show. >> Hey, how are y'all? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so me and [clears throat] my husband have been working really hard um to get some of our debt paid off. we, you know, work a bunch of side jobs and I'm just trying to figure out what the best way it is to deal with our friends if they like they get upset if we're busy or if we don't say we're not going to spend the money to go on a weekend trip or something like that. Um cuz we're we're too busy, you know, working to try and get out of debt. >> Yeah.

And what when you say that they're upset, what does that mean? That they miss you guys and they're like, "Oh man, we hate that you can't come." Or is it like, "Come on, y'all. Y'all are being crazy?" >> It a little bit of both, probably. Um, it's kind of like, you know, one of our friends has said like, "Hey, I'm just trying to figure out I'll have free time again so that we can hang out." And it's like, they get it, but they're also like this, they're quality time people, and so they just want to also just spend time with us.

>> Um, I'm 30 and my husband is 27.

>> Okay, so this is going to be the question, the answer to the question beneath your question, and that is this.

You're at an age, and it stinks. It's the worst when the friendships that served you really well in your 20s start

to thin out and really change.

>> Yeah. >> And it comes somebody's going to have a baby and you're going to find out they're like a weird little league parent or someone's going to get like a doodle and call themsel a pet parent or

you're going to get like you're going to be the weird cult people that like start paying off your debts. This is like when you just start the values you have begin to emerge in a weird new way and the people that were by your side in your 20s. There might be 10 of them. You'll suddenly look up in 30 at 35 and there'll be two. And it just stinks.

It's just hard because here's the deal.

I had buddies when me and my wife started doing this and they a of course

they made fun of me. That's what friends do. But they also were my chief supporters in whatever weird thing me and my wife wanted to do. You know what I mean? And so if you find friends that are getting

on to you because you want to have peace in your life and have freedom in your life and they want to make your journey about them, then they may not be your

friends down the road. Or if you just have some buddies that are like, "Dude, we miss you. Can we come hang out?" >> Here's what my buddies did. They would grab whatever was in their fridge and we'd come over once a week and we would just hang out at my house and have dinner. We wouldn't didn't go out. They someone bring over a half bottle of wine they had left a halfeaten casserole.

We'd make tacos and it cost no money but it was just a way for us to all hang out because for a season me and my wife couldn't go on vacations and we couldn't do weekend stuff or we'd go camping. We did do some camping together because it was so inexpensive. But it's just about being honest about your values and

maybe it's it's it's saying with their

actions like we're not we might not be friends long term. >> Yeah. And Kristen, this isn't forever either. I mean, how much longer do you guys have?

>> Oh gosh. Um, probably a couple years.

>> Okay. How How much debt do you guys have? >> Let's see. We have Do you want mortgage

or just non mortgage? >> No, non mortgage. >> Um 162,000 non-mortgage.

>> Okay. Is that student loans? What is that? >> That is credit cards, some medical debt, student loans. Um, we have a rental property and a a land loan.

>> Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, our takehome is every month is 4,900.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, when you guys map this out, what what's it what are you what are you finding from a timeline perspective?

>> So, we're even working like side jobs and we probably bring home an extra like3 to $4,000 a month doing that.

And so, um, >> y'all are going to have to sell some stuff. I'm guessing >> what's the what's the rental property?

How much is that? It's 40,000. Um, it

has probably about 5,000. It's been in remodel and it's probably got about $5,000 left to finish it. And then we're

either going >> You're going to sell it. Okay. How much could you sell it for? >> Well, we're either going to rent it out.

>> No, you need to sell it. Y'all can't afford it. >> Yeah. You're not You're not in a place to be landlord.

>> Yeah. You don't need to be a landlord. So, how much once you when once it's finished, how much could you sell it for? >> Probably 70 [clears throat] 80,000 maybe.

>> Done >> is the hope. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So, no, I would I would get rid of that.

Um, >> what about what about this land loan? Do are y'all living on this land or did y'all just buy your dream property?

>> Pretty much bought our dream property. We want to build on it eventually. How much is How much is that?

>> It is 75,000. It's a 15-year loan.

>> Okay. Yeah, y'all need to Yeah, y'all need to unload some of this stuff.

>> Um, >> yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> if you sold 75,000 and then you sold 40,000, >> that's at what 110 plus you got another 40 from your from the equity in the home that you just fixed up.

>> Yeah. I mean >> I mean Yeah, >> you're free. >> I hope Yeah. We're hoping to have all all of our cards paid off at the beginning of the year and then uh put start putting the extra to the rental house to get it finished and either, you know, to get it sold um and give us a lot more breathing room.

>> Yeah. >> And my husband's also supposed to get an increase in pay. Um >> that's great.

>> Y'all just done a couple of things out of order. The things y'all have done are not necessarily bad. You know, buying a rental property, buying a piece of land that's just out of order. You guys have student loans, you got medical debt.

uh you're having to work extra jobs to keep all of this. It's not worth it. It's not worth it because you can do all of that again, Chris. And that's the other thing.

Think about in 10 years when you're 40. 40, you're still young and fun and great and you can do those kind of things. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not like it's a now or never thing.

being 30, >> just get some margin financially. And

that's what I would be chasing as John always has. Um, what do you say? It's something about solving for peace.

>> I And listen, I want lands. Yeah, it my quote made such a difference in Rachel's [laughter] life she couldn't even remember it. But I'm always solving for peace. Here's the thing. I want land so bad. So bad. Like not healthy bad. And I

can't afford it right now. And we're saving like bananas for it. But like I

don't have the money for it right now. And what I don't want to do is mortgage my anxiety. I don't want to mortgage my

stress in my house. I don't want to mortgage my time away.

>> I want to just exhale and say, "I really want this thing and I got a target for how much I want to save up and I'm just going to keep doing that till I got it." >> And sometimes, like for you, it's a side hustle. For me, it's an extra speaking gig on the road or it's me taking some more, whatever. But like I we're in the same boat. I really want this.

I just I don't I can afford it right this second. And that's okay. It's totally okay.

>> That's what I'm trying to figure out. Yes. >> Y'all are free. Y'all are free. If you sell this land and sell this house and you pay off these cars, y'all y'all are free. >> Cuz your credit card debt is what? Four 5,000. >> 60. It's six. It's 16,500.

>> 16,000. Okay. How much is How much is the medical debt?

>> Like, 1500. It's not much.

>> Okay. So, that Yeah, that can be cleaned up. Yeah. You guys, technically, if you think about it, once this house sells and the land sells, you guys have $16,000 of credit card debt to clean up.

And then you could do that, golly, in, you know, 6 months or something. If you >> No, you're making extra 4,000 bucks a month. You can do it in four months, three months. >> Well, that's that's the goal is like we're with how much extra we're making with our side of jobs.

The goal is I know February. >> That was okay. Let me just I do want to just because I love you. So, I'm like I it was not your goal because you guys were like, "Well, we may rent it out." Oh, no.

my husband they're you know we bought our land like these weren't options at the beginning of the call but John and I just freed you guys freed you up. >> Yeah.

many years and it's not worth it. It's not worth it. >> You're going to wind up pregnant. One of y'all's going to wind up needing to go back to the hospital. One of your parents is going to get like it's just life is going to happen to you. >> Yes. So again these things are not bad.

>> They're I want you to have land. I really do. I just want it to be yours, not [music] >> banks. Exactly.

So, get an emergency fund in place. You guys start investing after you pay this off. Then start saving some money on the side. [music] And yeah, and find some land and I mean it may be five or six years, but that's okay.

Great. >> That's okay. But just do it slowly and with cash, Kristen. So, [music] I know you called about your friends, but we're your friends, too.

[music]

>> [music]

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>> All right. My husband and I are 45 and

43 years old. We've been married for 1 year and following your suggestions, we combined our money together. This was uncomfortable at first because both of us had financial trauma in our previous relationships. Good for you guys. Not for having trauma, but for feeling that and then going do the next right thing.

It's amazing. However, we trust each other and it's been great. We feel closer together because we are making shared decisions around money. Awesome.

We make around $250,000 a year combined and we have over a million dollars in assets. Amazing. We own previous homes which we are using as rental properties and we have opened an investment account together. Our question is we're both recovering from alcoholism, seven years sober for me and eight for him and we're both still active in AA. Should we do anything to protect ourselves if the other person relapses? M >> um it sounds like y'all are doing those

things right now, which are we're talking about hard things. We're putting past traumas on the table and we're acknowledging them and then we're choosing to go do the next right thing.

Y'all are staying in AA, which means you have sponsors. You've got people that are walking in life with you. It sounds like y'all are doing those things. And so if you were sitting, if this couple was sitting with me, Rachel, if Lindsay was sitting with me and her husband, I would ask, >> usually this question comes up when something's starting to feel wobbly.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'd want to know what's the basis behind this question. But as far as two

people who have traumat trauma in your past, who have struggled with substance abuse in the past, y'all are doing all of them right things. And I'm man, I'm like I would hug both of them if they were sitting here. I'm proud of them. >> Incredible. Um, and so I guess the next question I would ask is what are you trying to do to protect yourselves? Um, the only other thing I could think of is if you have somebody that meets with

y'all every year that goes over your finances with you that would serve like a a buddy or a a financial adviser.

Starting to get some professionals in your corner because now y'all are stacking up some serious money. And anytime somebody's been in

um recovery or someone's in recovery and you start getting this kind of money, I always want like make sure you get somebody else that's walking alongside you just because it gives you so much more resources to go get yourself in trouble again. But sounds like these guys are doing awesome. >> Yeah, because I there was a book I read and they talked about this how in recovery specifically if you get too comfortable you start to feel like we're good and money can do that. So to your point, you start to stack up a level of financial wallpapers over >> comfort and you're like, "Oh, we're good." Like, I feel safe and good.

And then you stop doing the things that got you >> that's it >> to be in recovery. So, yeah. >> But the fact that they're still in AA um this would have been my first recommendation if y'all said we're we've been sober for seven or eight years, I would say go back start going back to meetings, right? And go together.

Go together and maybe share a sponsor or what like whatever. I don't think you can share sponsors, but um Lindsay, I'm I'm I'm blown away. I'm blown away by y'all the work y'all are doing. >> So great.

So great. >> Good for you. All right, let's go to Justin in North Carolina.

>> Hey, how are y'all doing today? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, long story short, I'm on baby step

three. I think I'm about to hop right into baby step four. >> Congratulations. >> Good.

So, what I'm wanting to know is how aggressive should I be on paying off my mortgage versus investment towards retirement at this moment?

>> Oh, you hate that house payment now, don't you?

>> I do. [laughter] >> How big is it? How much do you owe?

>> Well, right now I owe around 210.

>> Okay. >> How much do you make a year?

>> Okay. And so I do have a salary and I also make VA disability. So right right

around there I'm around 90,000.

>> Okay. >> Perfect. Are you married, Justin?

>> I'm married. >> You are. Okay. Does your wife work?

>> Right now I've been able to drop her down to about two days a week to stay with the little one. >> Yeah. Great. Yeah. How many kids do you guys have?

>> Just one. One little girl.

>> Oh, sweet. Okay. Well, we always say when you're moving past baby step three, you're going from one to three, which is intense. I mean, you are full on I mean, it is sacrifice going, going, going.

And then baby steps four, five, and six, we move into intentionality, meaning you want to fund 15% of your income into retirement. So, you guys start, you know, open up, you know, two Roth IAS if you haven't already, if your um if your work offers a 401k. So, start some of that investing 15% of the income and then I would open up a 529 for the little one and put some money in. You don't have to be too aggressive with that right now.

Um, because I know you guys want, you know, you're you're filling those house payment. So, baby step six is the house payment.

pay this off as quickly as you are. Is that you agree?

Well, actually, I tal I had this thought to her about a week ago, and I think she's on board. >> Okay. Well, if she's on board, that's great. I mean, you guys are both adults, so you can make a decision to say, "Yes, we're going to throw everything else at the house, and we're still going to just go go." We just don't want you to burn out because when you pay off your mortgage, that is a that's a long game.

Most consumer debt can be paid off two two to three years where the mortgage on average is anywhere from 8 to nine years. So, it's just a longer game. And we want you to be able to enjoy your life during that too, right? You've worked hard. You you are not being irresponsible by, you know, upgrading a

car if you need to, going on a trip. So, I do want you guys to enjoy this life.

But again, you both together, if you

both agree, hey, we're still going to buckle down and throw this at the house, you can. I mean, George Camel did that.

John, if like you were that >> I would say if it's if it's gonna go beyond two years, like if if it's beyond

possible, um how old your your baby girl?

>> She'll be two in December. >> Okay. Here's what I would hate. I would hate for you to wake up and she's seven and you've worked seven days a week >> and you missed some of the magic moments.

You missed all the magic moments, >> right? And if you told me, hey, between my salary and my wife's salary, we could have this house if we just sucked it up for 24 more months and we could just blow through this thing or 18 months. I would say in my house, that's what we did.

>> Yeah. Go full steam ahead. It's going to take five years. I would tell you, man, slow down. You've done an amazing job.

>> Y >> amazing job. and enjoy a little bit of your life a little bit and still and be a little be double up on your payments or pay an extra two a year or an extra three a year and shave off big chunks of that mortgage, but um man, there's something about >> enjoying life. >> Yeah, dad spend there on Saturday mornings when they can at soccer games.

>> It's one thing when it's freaking credit cards and car loans and all of this, you know, but your mortgage like it's it's your home. Um, and so the and it's obviously a much larger debt usually.

And so it is going to take that time. So I would say just be realistic about where you guys are cuz how much consumer debt did y'all pay off in Baby Step 2.

>> Oh Lord, y'all would have yelled at me about a about a year. >> No, we wouldn't. >> No, [laughter] dude. I promise it's not worth worse than most of us.

>> You you you would have yelled at me in a good way. >> What is it? Oh, >> how much you pay off?

>> So I pretty much lived it up in my 20s.

I I turned 30 this year. I've had boats,

campers, trucks, you name it.

>> Excellent. >> And it just got to the point It just got to the point where >> it was Yeah.

>> How much did How much did you pay off? >> I realize I

>> I'd say about 70 grand.

>> That's amazing. I'm proud of >> you. That's incredible, Justin. Proud of you.

Yeah. So, my point is is that you guys have already done an incredible feat of paying off $70,000 of consumer debt. You have your baby your baby step three. you have a fully funded emergency fund.

Like what you guys are doing is incredible beyond what the average American is doing. So if you are if you've done those things, check that off. Be proud of yourselves. Be funding some retirement on the side.

Be thinking about college and then throw some extra at the house. That's great. But again, like John said, please don't go and work 80 hours a week just to get this thing paid off. Um just slow down, be intentional.

I want you guys to have a plan. And you could have more of an aggressive plan. Um, and even the mortgage calculator, if you go to ramseyolutions.com, plugging in some of those numbers, I'm like, you can see how quickly this can get paid off. Um, by just throwing a few extra payments uh, a year.

Like, it's crazy how quickly it fast forwards the process. So, do some math around it.

Celebrate. >> I want to celebrate you, brother. You did you've done well. >> Well done.

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The allnew Every Dollar is here and it is way more than just the incredible budgeting app that it was. It is still a budgeting app, but now it has so many more advanced features to help you make progress with your money. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So, Every Dollar Now, you guys, I mean, it's looking over your entire financial picture.

There's recommendations, there's coaching involved. I mean, there's so much now in this app to help you with your money journey. So, get started today for free, and you can download it in the App Store or Google Play. Up next we have Isabelle in Illinois.

Isabelle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You're so welcome. How can we help today? >> So I was my question is how do I um how

do I find a margin within my very small

income with about six $7,000 in debt?

which I know may not sound like a lot, but again, it's more so my very low income. >> Sure. Yeah. How much are you making a year? >> Uh, I'm making about 27 to $30,000 a

year. >> Okay. And what are you doing?

>> Um, I work for a small company. Um,

roughly paycheck-wise, I get about $2,66

a month. Um, and again, it's just kind

of paying down my debts to get to where I want to be financially, uh, as well as securing a home down the line. Yes. >> And everything of that sort. >> So, Isabelle, what are you said? You're working for a small company. What are you doing? Are you doing sales admin?

What's the >> uh, basically a receptionist for a

countertop company? Okay.

>> Which does Okay. But again, it's not >> sure >> not corporate money.

>> No, for sure. Um, do you are you married? Do you have kids?

>> I do. I I'm not married, but I do have a

partner. Okay. >> Um, so no kids, though.

>> That's >> Yes, kids. I have a toddler and one on the way. >> Okay. Oh, congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> Um, and toddler goes to daycare. What What does toddler do during the day?

Okay. >> So, that's probably a chunk, too. How much are you paying in that?

>> I'm paying roughly $800 a month for

care. Okay. And how much is your rent?

>> Um, that's another issue. Um, our rent

went up significantly uh last year uh going into this year.

So, we ended up I could not budget my my

income to the rent. Rent was about $1,900 a month for a onebedroom.

>> Um, and I did not find that feasible with my income plus my partner's income.

So, we ended up moving in with my parents to kind of lower all of our costs down. >> Okay. >> Um, so that's where it's at now. I do pay bills in within my my parents'

household, which roughly around with my bills roughly sums up to $800 a month in

bills. >> And is the partner paying as well?

>> Uh, not at the moment. Uh so what really

took a toll on us financially uh regarding rent and uh how why we had

to move in was because he has his own business. Unfortunately with the business he's a mechanic slash I'm

really not sure but more of a performance. He fixes engines, motors, transmissions, all of that stuff.

>> Is he making any money Isabella?

>> Uh no. So, what had happened was >> No, hold on, hold on. Let me stop.

>> Yeah. >> Like, >> what you need right now, like what happened is important, but not right this second. >> And so, let me let me say it like this.

>> You y'all two were in a boat

and the boat hit something. Something broke, an old weld popped loose, somebody shot a hole in it. Right now, y'all are drowning >> and you're the only one with a bucket. >> And it doesn't matter what happened to that boat. What matters is y'all need to swim to shore.

Okay? So, he had a business. Whatever

happened didn't have doesn't matter.

He's got to get up today and go knock on

doors. And every single mechanic shop I walk by has a sign outside that says, "We're looking for ASS asse certified mechanics." Everybody. Every single shop's looking for mechanics. He's got to go get a job. Two jobs.

>> He's pushing. Yes, he does do that. He has a part-time job right now, but most of that income is going to repay all of

the loans that he got for the business itself because we don't want to bring that into if we ended up buying

purchasing a home, getting married, all of that stuff. What happened with his business really did put a lot of

financial burden on us.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What how much does he owe?

His business owes roughly $8,000 $9,000

from what we've been able to pay down.

Um, that completely drained our savings.

>> Okay. So, but he only owes $9,000. Is

that right, Isabelle? >> Right. >> Okay. That's not a ton of money. He can earn that. >> He can go drive Uber Eats and make Yeah.

two to three,000. Do you understand?

>> He could have this cleaned up. So you have a if I were you and I don't want to paint this picture but Isabelle like this is if I had a toddler one on the way and the guy I'm doing life with um

had a major financial thing that wiped out you said our savings so I don't know if you put money towards it there is there's a lot of >> of um there's zero security there's not

a lot of safety in all of this and so a part of me >> you guys have co-mingled so much with kids living together and all of it and Um, Isabelle, just for you and just to make this as clean as possible, I would be separating everything and he needs to go and do Door Dash and be a M at night and be a mechanic during the day to John's point. Um, and I know that the business that whole thing, I'm sure his self-esteem, I'm sure everything is just terrible. Like I I bet he does feel a lot of guilt, shame.

Who knows?

he has. Do you know what I'm saying? and a and a right >> girlfriend, a fiance, whatever it is.

So, he needs to go do all of that. You

then Isabelle, yeah, I would be for your sake in your debt. Um, it's not a lot either. I know it probably feels very overwhelming like what you're saying with your salary. I'm thankful that you have a place to land when you have family in town that's such a gift being um, you know, having two kids and you're doing this. So, I would be looking, Isabelle, at from a salary perspective to up your salary cuz um man, I mean,

you're you're at the cusp with with two kids on poverty level. So, I would be I would be looking for something like, you know, 36,000 um you know, something that you can do that's going to be bringing in more money. And ideally, it's a primary income position. And so I would be thinking through family, friends, people that you know, um anything that you can start to do to um yeah, open some doors.

I'll send you Ken's book, Find the Work That You're Wired to Do because he has a great assessment in there. And so Jenna will pick up, we'll send that copy to you. >> And and I want you to really start dreaming and thinking through Isabelle like what do I want my life to look like? Not just in the next >> nine months, but what do I want it to look like in the next nine years? You know, what do I want to do with my life?

And and I'm hoping together, I mean, I pray that you guys get married and you guys, you know, flourish and do all the

things um because you guys have built a life together, but my hope is that you're in a position where you feel good about that. >> Yeah. He you're not going to feel good until he starts acting like somebody you can anchor into, >> right? >> And and here's what this looks like.

He's Is this his baby on the way?

>> Yes. Both of them are his. Yes. Then

this is what this looks like right now.

He got knocked down. His business fell out from under him. He wasn't good at it. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It looks like him waking up at 4 a.m. every day and Ubering people to and from the airport until he starts work at 8:00 and

he is a mechanic from 8:00 to 5:00. And then he gets off and he has dinner with you and the young one and then he goes back out into the world and does Door Dash until midnight.

>> This This is all of human history. Men have had to go work like crazy to provide for their family. And $9,000, he

can have that cleaned up in no time. But

he's got to say, "My two kids and my

future wife are worth it.

>> One year, two years of just working

myself until I I I weigh nothing. I I'm

costing myself sleep. All that." He has a major priority. And like Rachel said, man, you also have to begin to visualize a world where he doesn't do that, which means you're going to have to go earn some more money and you're going have to put yourself out on the market, which is going to feel weird. You got a baby coming. It's going to be hard. People are going to judge you. All that. Who cares? None of that matters. Um, you have a real math problem, but underneath that, you have a security problem.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show [music] in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with John Deloney and we're answering your questions. So you can give us a call at88255225.

Up next in Wisconsin we have Olivia. Hi

Olivia, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

So my question is, what is the best way

to manage or organize a single 529 plan

that would cover multiple children?

>> Yes. Okay. Was this being was this passed down to you or how did you receive it?

>> Yeah. Um it was the 529 plan that my

parents set up for me and then I didn't use all of it. So they just said that it

is they're using it towards grandkids when they're ready. Nice. Okay. Very cool. Question. Do you remember how much you had left in it when you finished college? Like, I don't need that. And how much it is today?

>> Uh, today it's about $100,000

and the kids are 15 months and the next

one's due in January.

>> Oh, well, congratulations. How long have you been out of school?

>> About five years. >> Five years. Okay. How much was left in that 529? I guess it's only had five years of growth. So probably How much was that?

>> Uh I I don't know exactly how much Yeah.

was when I >> Yeah. use the rest of it.

>> Well, yeah. Well, that's one of the great benefits of the 529 is it can be passed down through family for educational funds. So what I would probably do, Olivia, is get hooked up with one of our Smart Veester pros in your area. And you can't open a 529

until second baby is born. So I I probably would just wait. So you can do it all in one meeting so you don't have to go back and do two meetings. Um but yeah, you can go and set two up under your um both girls names and then that Smart Vster Pro will be able to help you bring the funds down from your name and you can yep disperse it within family members. So they'll be able to take that and fund it and you'll be able to see um

you know how much you may obviously probably put a little bit more in the first kid versus the second because the second will have a few more years uh to be able to have some growth. But that should be plenty. I mean, honestly, you could probably just check that off. I mean, talk to talk to your Smart Ver Pro. Ours we sat with ours and um we do every January and he ran out the calculations of tuition as it continues and you're like, "Oh, go." Um so do some

numbers, some projecting, but that's what's great about having a investment professional in your corner is that they they do all of that. they're able to look out and project um not even from like a market perspective, you know, with um average rates of return, but also what tuition is going to do to make sure that you guys have enough. But you have a massive head start, which is wonderful. So, yeah, I would just get with an investment professional and they can help transfer those funds.

All right, let's go to Ashley. Oh, in Key West, Florida. So, nice.

>> Hello. >> Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Um my situation is kind of unique. Um my

husband is active duty military and um

we have find our found ourselves in a very unique situation. Um we were up in

Pensacola, the panhandle of Florida. We owned a home there and we got orders to come to Key West and um the cost of

living down here is astronomical.

>> Um our house has been on the market since April and we're now going into November. >> The house in the handle.

>> Correct. We've had no movement at all on it. It's being shown uh three to four times a week, but we've had zero offers.

We've lowered the price twice. We've done um updates, incentives for buyers,

and it's just nothing is happening. And between our mortgage and our rent here in Key West, >> we're paying out over eight grand a month. >> Oh my gosh. >> Um between the two things. And um because I I'm still having to pay someone to maintain my pool on the home, the yard, um the the lights and the water is still on. So, and then everything combined is actually like 7980 something. Um >> what's your real estate professional telling you?

>> Um well, he told us about a couple months ago to put it up for rent also.

So, we did that. Um and we've also had

no movement on it being rented. We actually made our mortgage on the house is 3,000. It well when we originally bought it was 2100 and it went up to 29

because of property taxes >> in that area. Um we have uh not a very

ideal rate because we bought it in um

2023 when the >> rates but the a time on market right now

is is 2 months 16 62 days. What is your

real estate professional saying is the challenge? Because it sounds like it's people are looking at it. They're interested in it.

>> Have you run comps in the area to see is it overpriced? >> It is actually lower than the comps in the area. Um it's just um for whatever

reason in that Pensacola area, no one is

buying and no one is selling.

>> Yeah. Um but um my other issue is you

know we both we also have credit card debt and we have two car payments and um

um we make good money.

>> Um just going out in payments. Um correct. >> Okay. How much do you guys bring in a month? >> Um oh gosh I didn't write down the monthly. I did I did it by year for y'all. >> Okay you can go ahead. Yeah. What per year? >> Um so together um we both make 135 a

year. Is that before tax?

>> That is um before tax. Yes.

>> Okay. Um in the apartment that you guys are in now, how much are you guys paying per month? >> So, we're actually on base. So, it's taking my husband's basic housing allowance. It's like an aotment that comes out of his paycheck. >> Okay. So, y'all aren't having to pay for rent right now. I thought you said that rent's astronomical.

>> It it is. So, our our rent, so the Navy

subcontracts out um their property

management. So, they are taking $4,568

per month for us to live here on

>> $4,000 on base.

>> Yes, that's correct. 4568.

>> Gosh. So, could you >> could you move somewhere else or >> did you get a onebedroom apartment, take your loans? >> So, I I So, there are no apartment complexes down here. That is the issue with Key West and um service members coming down here. There there are no barracks. There are no places for military members to live. Um I I did

actually Google this this morning. I went on Zulu so that I could get some examples for you guys. Um an average 32

is between 6500 to $8,000.

>> That's a 32. What's a one? What's a one?

>> What's a onebedroom? Like a survival.

around four 3500 to four

>> for a onebedroom apartment.

>> Correct. Mhm. And I mean like this is

you know. >> Yeah. Totally. Now I hear you. Okay. So the cars, tell me about the cars. How much do you owe on each of those?

>> Um so on my Armada I owe 20,000. My

monthly payment is 550.

>> Okay. >> U my husband's F-150 he owns he owes 18

and his payment is 575.

>> Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's yeah over $1,000 going out in just that in just car payments. >> Then we have $30,000 worth of credit card debt. >> Okay. >> And then um we actually um last week

um as crazy as it sounds had to take out a Coast Guard mutual assistance loan in

the amount of 2500 because my transmission something failed on my transmission. Now, that loan is 0% interest because it's it comes from um

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, what what I would say is I would look at seeing if you guys can sell these cars and get [music] two $5,000

cars, even if you have to take a small loan for the difference, just to get this $1,000 freed up. Um because that's

going to help you a ton. [music] Cut up the credit cards and you guys have to draw a hard line in the sand and say, "No more debt. No more debt." And it's

going to take a little while to dig out, but I'd be working extra doing what you can. >> And get a new real estate professional.

Go to ramsysolutions.com/realestate.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey, real quick. We were just talking about this off air, Rachel.

If if you went and bought a ton of house

during the like not during the pandemic, but after the pandemic, right? Or if you went and followed your neighbor who does

really well or followed somebody at your local church, whatever, and they bought a property like a beach house like this last caller, or they bought a lakehouse, whatever in 2023, 2024, and you're like, "Yeah, I want to do that, too." Somebody's going to pay the piper on that deal, man. >> Yes. >> And it's one of those things that we keep I don't know, man. Dave's been beating this drum forever, and now we're picking up the the the drumsticks and beating it, too.

um and then now they find themselves in a stuck position. My heart breaks for that last caller who got got new orders,

had to move, and now they can't sell their house there. But but people flocked to these places and they bought a second and a third and a fourth house and they mortgaged it here and they >> Man, it's a mess people are finding themselves in. >> Yes. Yeah.

keeping your life financially simple, you guys. It's boring. It's not exciting, >> but it brings peace because you're not trying to play this game where you're juggling this, then we're going to pull it out of here and this and this. And we've just heard so many stories recently kind of of that happening and people are hitting the wall is what it feels like.

>> And I'm heartbroken for this this military family who just got moved and that house won't sell. >> Yeah. But everyone in the neighborhood bought their third house. I I don't know.

It's just I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

peaceful. Yes, >> boring is peaceful. >> And the same is true just with investing. When we talk about like >> boring, it's boring. >> Invest 15% of your income into 401ks and Roth IAS. Everyone's like, "Boo, let me go do something real estate with cashing." Boring.

>> Yeah. But man, I'm telling you, yes, it is. It takes some patience for sure in this, but you're doing it the right way. You're not building a house on sand, right? Like it is strong and the structure is there because it's real money. You're being wise about it. So, everyone slow down >> and feel it out. All right. Well, everyone also needs insurance and it can be hard trying to find pros.

>> Great transition >> who [clears throat] aren't looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. And with Ramsey Trusted Insurance pros, you will never find a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed. They are vetted and they are coached by our team to make sure they are market experts and have your best interest at heart. So go to ramseysolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance that you are looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you are listening on YouTube or podcast.

We've had a lot of Florida calls. Hi Susan, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help today? Um, I have been a caregiver for three

handicapped family members for 28 years.

>> Wow.

>> For I have dumped all my retirement into

taking care of them, which was over half a million dollars. And I need to know

how I go about rebuilding my f financial

life as I have none right now. I have no

credit. I owe no one anything,

>> but I need to know how to build my um

stockpile of funds so I can have some kind of retirement because I know I will have no one to take care of me.

>> Yikes. Um are are these three family members still living?

>> Yes, they're here now in the house with me. I have two mentally handicapped brothers. one who now is crippled, one

who is going through prostate cancer, and I have my 90year-old mom who has severe dementia.

>> Oh wow, Susan, that's a lot.

>> Do you have support? >> Yeah. And I had a wonderful life before this. I worked for one of the richest men in the world. I had my own corporate jet. I was making great money. Wow.

>> My dad passed away and I stepped in and I had left home when I was 14.

>> Oh man. Well, you're a you're a saint.

Um, do do you have I mean have you

explored things like

>> Excuse me. >> I haven't done anything truthfully.

>> How old are you?

>> I am 66.

>> You're 66. Okay.

>> I want you to >> and I started this job. >> Explore SSI benefits for your brothers.

>> Yes, we do have benefits coming in. I

have them on a program called CDC Plus.

>> Okay. So, I am now, they kept telling me

I couldn't get paid as the caregiver because I was a family member, >> but I found this program through another woman who had a handicapped daughter.

>> Okay. >> And I'm getting paid, but I'm only been

getting paid now for like seven years.

>> Okay. What about for your mom? Is she on Medicaid?

>> She's on Medicare only. They kicked her off of Medicaid for some reason. So

that's where part of my money went to paying her medical bills as she got

older. >> Well, here's what I'm worried. I'm worried that because of your

>> wild and amazing generosity,

>> you're going to find yourself >> in a hole. >> In a hole and unable to take care of yourself, much less take care of them.

>> Right? because I'm at uh at I'm going to

say the truth at this point I'm at burnout mode and everybody has always called me superwoman >> and they said my god you you run on rocket fuel you know >> and I'm getting to the point where I not

only can't do it I don't want to do it

>> and that's okay that's okay and I Rachel

and I are right there with you we get that totally get that >> but the greatest thing you The greatest thing you can do for them right now is make sure you've got a plan for yourself.

>> Right. >> You just hired a part-time caregiver to come in and help me. >> Are you okay? Good. Yes. Are you um is there any income, Susan, from that from whether it's the caregiving position or anything else that you're doing that you're bringing in money? >> I I am making very good money. Um, I

have available to me $170,000

a year, >> okay, >> that I can take for myself, but at this

point, like I said, I'm on burnout and I need to hire people and I'm paying $30 an hour for caregiver.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, what >> I do have money available to me, but >> And is that is that 170 like a retirement package that will be ongoing or what what happens with that? That's the money I get paid from the program to take care of them. >> Okay, I hear you. Okay, >> take care of only two.

>> Okay, >> mom doesn't get anything. So, I'm still paying all her costs.

>> Okay. >> Well, 170 grand a year is a chunk of money if you have no bills.

>> Is your house paid off?

>> My what? >> Your house?

>> No. Um, it's not my house. It's my It's

in my mom's name, but I'm paying the mortgage. >> Okay. And I have $80,000 left on the

mortgage. >> $80,000. >> Is it left to you in a will when she passes? Will it become yours?

>> It's in trust. She put it in a trust.

>> Yeah. For the three of us >> for Oh, for the three. You and the two brothers. >> Yes. Because the Well, the ones that are the mentally >> handicap make financials.

>> Yes. Okay. Um Yep. Okay. Well, I would

probably sit down with a lawyer because because they're going to need um even like a special needs type of trust or I mean there's some ways to go about this estate planning to make sure that because they're living with you, making sure obviously that I'm not trying to write them out of the estate or anything like that or her will, but to be wise about how to divvy all this up realistically. Um do you see yourself

ongoing, Susan, to be with your two brothers or are you hoping maybe to find someone? I'll never ever give up on them. Never. >> Yes. So, you're going to plan on living with them and then just maybe supplementing some help throughout the day. Okay. >> You know, I I honestly, Susan, would probably sit down with an attorney. Is your mom um I know you said she has cancer. Is she dementia? Oh, it's your brother. I can't make any decision. >> Yes. Okay. The trust was made before she declined. So, thank God for that.

>> Yes. Good. Good. Good. >> Do you have a good um estate attorney?

Do you guys that you're working? >> I've never been to an estate attorney.

>> Okay. You know, I may I may reach out to someone in your area, honestly, Susan, because I would have them look at not only the income that's coming in, but some things that you can do around to help your brothers and there might be some way to shuffle some money that's actually going to be good for their best interest that you're going to be able to help them. And then with the real estate and everything on top of that, um, what that looks like because if you can prove that you've been paying [music] a certain level of mortgage, you know, there might be something that you guys can do in that.

I just want you to be set up like what you're saying really well, but [music] but 170,000 a year is wonderful.

Well, in the lobby [music] of Ramsay Solutions on the debt-free stage, age. We have Rebecca here. Hi, Rebecca. >> Hi. >> How are you doing? >> It's so amazing to be here. >> Oh, we're so glad that you're here. We love a debtree scream. We are so glad.

So, where are you from? >> Uh Wake Forest, North Carolina.

>> North Carolina. Okay. >> Beautiful part of the country. >> It's amazing. >> Amazing. Okay. How much debt have you paid off? >> $27,000.

>> Oh my gosh. Making what kind of money?

>> Uh 100 to 130.

>> Okay. And what was the uh or what amount of time? How fast did you do this? >> 91 months. 91 months.

>> Not that you counted exactly. [laughter] >> I love it. Wow. Okay. What was the uh

$27,000?

THE HOUSE. >> OH MY GOSH. YOU DID IT.

>> I did. You paid off the house.

Congratulations. >> Wait, did anyone else help you? >> No. >> But hold on. Um I've been reading the news a lot and single people can't do

>> what what you've done. So clearly you've made all of this this up, right?

>> No. Never. Single people can't work really hard and grind and and scratch and claw and do this. >> Oh, they can if they truly want it.

>> Golly, dude. >> Unbelievable. Unbelievable. >> Fun ruiner.com. That's amazing.

>> Okay, so um tell me this. How much is the house worth? >> Um I think the last estimate I saw was like 390. >> 390. Okay, good for you. Okay, so what

happened? Was that eight yearsish, right? >> Seven and a half. >> Seven and a half. Okay, I'll give you that. Um, tell me what happened seven and a half years ago that you were like, I want to >> um I was a first-time home buyer. So, >> um, longtime listeners might remember that back in 2016, my siblings and I were at your old, um, studio doing our

debtree screams all on the same day.

>> Oh my I do remember your [laughter] family. I'm not kidding cuz y'all all did it. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, so like that was me. I was debtree

at that point. Okay. >> And I followed the baby steps. did my three my 3B. Um, and by the time I was

ready to start the qualifying process for my mortgage and buy the house, I wasn't quite at the like FICO score disappeared. >> So, I was in this weird limbo of they wanted to pull it, but then like stuff was falling off, so it didn't look good.

So, then they had to do the manual underwriting. >> Um, and I had saved up my 10% down

payment and and my emergency fund within

14 months. >> Oh my gosh. And by 16 months, I had signed the paperwork buying the house.

>> Oh my gosh. >> So, it just started happening. Yes. >> It just started happening. And then once I signed the paperwork for the house, >> I had done my budget before I even bought the house of what can I afford, how much extra could I put on it. Um, the bank obviously qualifies you for way

more than [laughter] you really probably want or need or should have.

>> Um, and it was so great. I worked with

an ELP that I had worked with previous realators. I thought I had wanted a historic house >> because my grandmother had a Victorian.

I thought that's what I wanted. There were two realators that just completely shut me down. Didn't even want to show me historic homes. And the realtor I work with who was an ELP.

Yeah. One of our Ramsey, >> one of the Ramsey pros, um, Rob Parton, he was so great and he showed me historic houses so that I could see what I was getting into >> to be like maybe that's not what I want as [laughter] my first home. >> Yes. Yes, >> there's some work to be done there.

>> There is some work to be done or what previous owners might have done to change the house that it's not really then what you want cuz it's not what you were expecting. >> Interesting. Yeah, it looks one way and then you go in and you're like, "Nope, this isn't." >> And I got him to understand that if you showed me the floor plan first, >> that might just shut it down right there. We don't even need to go see the house.

[laughter] >> Um, [clears throat] so finally, you know, I got off I didn't want the historic house anymore.

it is so important to have the emergency fund in place first because

>> 3 years into the house, um, there was a mouse on the first floor and I saw him come up through the floor vent from the HVAC system. >> Oh no. >> So that led to me calling an HVAC person to go in the crawl space and there was work that needed to be done on the HVAC and then while he was down there he's like, "Hey, do you know your water heater's leaking?" And then you got to get that fixed. And then you have to get that fixed.

>> And you're a homeowner, so you're paying for all this. Um it's coming out of your pocket.

You have to pay for that. But I had the emergency fund in place and I still had enough room in my budget that I was able to replace the emergency fund like within the next two paychecks.

>> Oh my gosh. >> After those two things came up. And it's, you know, it's such a good point because people want to rush into home ownership, which we want that a part of people's plan obviously. Like it's wonderful.

But when you have no money and you have payments and debt and everything and then you go buy a house on top of that, it just >> magnifies so much. So you're you're like, "Yeah, you doing the steps perfectly did exactly what it was supposed to do where it's supposed to be more of an inconvenience when things come up >> than this total crisis." >> Yeah. And um when I first started, I was doing 12-hour night shifts >> and I was >> Are you a nerd? What do you do?

>> Um at the time, I was working on the manufacturing floor for a pharmaceutical company. >> Okay.

co-workers because they didn't know which rotation I was on because I was doing overtime. Okay. [laughter] Um, and then in CO happened and that

kind of burnt me out because as an essential employee, >> um, you had to work no matter what. And then if other people were out because of the COVID protocol, you know, other people had to fill in or there was extra work that you had to get done on your shift. >> And so finally in 2022, I got off of

night shift and I got off of the floor.

So now I'm an 8 hour Monday through Friday person, which I never thought I would like, but I do. >> Yes. Good quality of life there. Yes.

>> Um and my salary did drop a little bit

when that happened because I lost the um shift premium and the um overtime and the built-in overtime that I could get, but it has been such a nice change.

>> Yes. >> And I'm so glad. >> And there were other compensations of um my my bonus compensation went up, my stock compensation went up. >> So good.

And that was one of the things I did was um the company gave us stock as part of our compensation >> and some of my co-workers would look at me like I was crazy every time I cashed it out when it vested. >> Yeah. >> And they're like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, "I have other things I'd rather spend that money on." >> Yeah. >> Than hope that >> So smart.

>> It goes up.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, what was what was the hardest part during these eight years? Cuz that's a long time.

>> It was a long time. And I think the hardest part was learning the intensity versus intentional. Yes, >> cuz coming out of baby step two, doing the 3B, going into this, I was still on the intense. >> Uhhuh.

>> And I was like, I don't need to just start enjoying some of this and making it worth it. And so then finally in like 2023, 2024, I was like, okay, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Um, I can slow down a little bit. I was definitely a nerd and had my AM schedule in a spreadsheet.

>> I believe it was talking to you for about 2 minutes. I'm like, Rebecca, she knows. See?

>> Oh, yeah. That there it is. Um, so I actually that's like the pretty cleaned up version of it. As I was doing it, I had it broken down by like years of like if I put this much extra on it, I would be done by this year, this year, this year, this year.

>> Okay, let me let me jump in. If there is a single person listening to the news and and here's the reality. Buying homes is expensive. It's hard. It's a mad house. Mhm.

>> What would you tell that person who just feels hopeless?

>> There is hope. You just have to want it bad enough, like I said, to find the way to make it work. >> Um, don't buy more than you can afford.

Um, sometimes you have to go further out than you want to go for your commute.

Sometimes you might need to start in a smaller house than you might originally want and work your way up. Um, I was lucky enough that this was back when the market was a little bit better, [laughter] a little bit better. Um, and I have a good salary that, you know, my starter house is actually the house I just want to stay in. I don't want to move. But there were other properties available that were smaller and more reasonable that I could have, you know, started as a starter home instead.

>> Well, dude, this is You're amazing.

>> Incredible,cc

I bet your family's so proud. >> They are. Yeah. My dad kept saying like, "Has it pen paid off yet? I need to brag. I need to brag. Has it paid off yet?" And I was like, and my dad was so great, too, that there were things that I wanted to do project-wise in the house. Um, and he's a mechanical engineer and very handy. So, he would come help and with some sweat equity.

So, >> Okay. Well, let's do it cuz it's well worth it. The scream is well worth it. Okay. So, we have Rebecca uh from North Carolina. Paid off $27,000,

which is the mortgage, making 100 to 130,000 and did this in 7 and a half years. All right, girl. Count it down.

Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

>> Dude, it's amazing.

>> So good. So good, [applause] Rebecca.

Man, that's it. [music] That's That's the story. It's what you do, you know.

Seven and a half years later, you got no no payments in the world. >> Nothing. >> Well done, Rebecca. [music] I know your parents are proud. We're proud of you, too.

>> [music]

[music] >> Heat.

[music] Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:17.

Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and [music] just as you have us a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. Alice Cooper

said, "Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy, but being a Christian, that's a tough call. That is rebellion." >> Yeah, James. >> Alice Cooper. >> James, stop trashing hotel rooms.

>> Act like a Christian. It's harder.

>> He was a metal metal. What did you say he was? He's one of the He's one of the legendary metal singers of all time.

>> Is he part of a group? >> Al Cooper. That was the name of the band. >> Oh, >> that's his name, too.

>> I listen to Taylor Swift. So,

>> dude, Al Cooper. I'm sure I've heard rules, dude. Same as same as Taylor Swift. Just same. >> Just all in the same in the same genre.

I'll take it. [laughter] [snorts] >> All right, let's go to all people are

just shaking their heads at me. It's fine. It's like I don't know what world you live in sometimes and it's so I think we live in the same world. >> I have no music world.

>> We sit by each other. >> I have no music >> genuinely. It's like >> it's like Taylor Swift and Backstreet Boys. That's it.

>> I'm going back in February. What?

[laughter] Give me like pop 2003 and I am in my prime >> or >> give me give me that. >> Okay. All right. >> All right. Let's go to Sarah in Washington DC. Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Um I will try to cut to the chase.

My ultimate question is should we rent

or buy? Um my husband's active duty

active duty army. Um we move a lot um

but it's never been overseas. We just found out we have an opportunity um that a sliver of a chance that we might um need to go overseas. Um it would be in

Belgium. It would be um for NATO. So

usually in that case we would consider living on post but there is no post there. It would be we would have to live in the community. >> Okay. >> Um we we have rented houses. We've been

married um since 2020. So about 5 years.

We have moved eight times >> in that course of action. >> Wow. That's a lot. >> Uh we've been spooked a couple of times.

The first house we rented, we were in Missouri. We were paying rent um on time, never late. Um we got an eviction

notice uh in the mailbox one day. The um

homeowner Yeah. was not paying the mortgage. We were paying them rent. They weren't paying the mortgage. So >> Oh jeez. >> Um that was the first time. And then the we've moved a couple times since then while we were in North Carolina. We liked the house we were in. Um I was pregnant with um our daughter, our

second child, and uh we signed a lease to stay in the house and then two months later into the lease, the owner decided to sell. So we are a little You've been burned. That's what it feels like.

>> Yeah. And we we took a call earlier from

>> a veteran's wife who they had bought a house and they were settled in and then they got transferred to another part of the state and they've been sitting on that house for months >> and paying [snorts] two paying rent a crazy rent and a mortgage. So, as much as y'all have been burned in the past, which I hate, it's still the it's still the better financial move for you guys, especially if you're going to be overseas and you're not going to, you know, be there long term probably, right?

>> Yeah. He has seven years before he's up for retirement at the 20 year mark >> and you guys still have been moving >> but >> multiple time I mean >> yeah so I would not Sarah just because

>> um and especially overseas I would just rent because >> you know number one you don't know when you guys would be you know transferred out and also you don't even know what part of the cityish you would even want to be in because do you guys have do you guys have kids little kids >> yeah four and two >> okay So I would even want from a I mean and I would tell you this if you're moving to a new city let alone another country to know like okay this is like the area I want to be for grocery shopping and for the kids and school and I don't know all the things that life is you know you could get stuck in a really crappy situation a crappy side of town that you're like no we do all of our life over here and we moved over here we didn't know so from a location perspective I wouldn't buy and then also from the investment side because again it's so shortterm and you need I mean at least at least four to five years for a house to be able to kind of run its mark, you know, after all the closing costs, all the stuff that you pay and what whatever the market's doing at the time just to actually gain some equity to make it somewhat smart financially.

So, um, so no, Sarah, if I were you, I would, uh, definitely rent, but thank you guys so much for your service.

That's a that is a dedication of how much you guys have been moving and sacrificing. So, thanks. Thank you to both of you. Well, and and like I think it's an important thing. We talk a lot about um how grateful we are for the

servicemen and women who are enlisted, but for every service person who's enlisted, not for everyone, but for many of them, there's also a spouse >> that's has to pack up and move. And there's little kids that have to pack up and move at a moment's notice.

>> Um often at great cost, financial cost.

And so it's it's an honor to talk to everybody. Mhm. >> Um, what I have found in this situation when somebody's getting moved a lot is

the temptation to [clears throat] make a decision that feels like I'm putting roots in the ground of some sort.

>> And like you mentioned, it wouldn't be wise to go buy a house in a country you

don't know anything about and you don't know how long you're going to be there.

Um, and so what we want to do is to create where can we create roots in an alternative way other than in a mortgage. And so coming up with concrete

family rituals is often a thing you can do. We never deviate from Monday mornings or from Sunday nights or from an evening meal together, whatever. But we're going to create home in these regular practices that we never deviate from and we can carry those to all these different rent houses and across the country. This becomes home for us until we can anchor into a geographical location.

Yeah. >> But it's it's it's not as it's not as rooted as a home. like this is our land but but it is something that gives you some anchor point. >> No, that's a good point.

Just the consistency to feel norm to to have the normal. Yeah, >> the normaly. >> All right, let's go to Katie in Washington State.

>> Hi, thank you. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help? >> Um I my husband and I are in disagreement. We're in baby step two and we have a daughter that just started college >> and he kind of thinks we should focus on getting out of debt ourselves before we help her. But I just I'm terrified for her to even touch debt at this point. So I don't want her to take out any student loans. I'd rather cash flow it and then but I know that would kind of slow down our debtree journey.

>> Yeah. >> So you're miss you're missing option three.

>> All right. And you're not going to like it. But can I tell it to you anyway?

>> Of course. >> All right. Here's here's the umbrella principle. Whenever you feel like you're forced into an eitheror decision, >> that's when people make bad choices or choices that I want to say bad, but they're they're not helpful.

It's when people get themselves in trouble. And so whenever I feel like I have an eitheror decision to make, then I always want to force myself into a practice of putting four or five imaginary variables on the table that prove to me that I don't have to do this one or this one.

treading water so that she can go to college.

Option three is >> y'all sit down and have a honest, direct, loving conversation. That is

we are not in any way going to support you taking on debt. Look at us. We're living the we're living that reality right now and we don't have the money.

And so we're going to be in Washington State and we're gonna I'm making this up. I don't know if they got it, but you're going to participate at least in your freshman year >> free community college >> in the free community college >> or you've got to start right now applying for every single solitary scholarship possible. >> And maybe Katie, how much do you guys how much debt do you guys have left?

>> Um, we have about 150,000 >> of consumer debt or does that include the mortgage?

>> That's just consumer debt. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. So, I I mean I'm

a little bit more on your husband's team that you guys >> Yeah, totally. and and for her sake, like you said, still

talking to her and having that conversation, but where can she go to school? That's really inexpensive, which may mean changing, right? She may be in the middle of a semester somewhere, but >> is she in school or is she a senior?

>> She's currently in school. She's a freshman college this year. We we paid for her first semester and we're getting ready to pay for the second one.

>> Okay. So So I I've worked in colleges for years. Every semester parents had this convers hard conversation with their kids which was we can't afford this past this year and we're sorry and we're heartbroken. Here's the truth.

>> We're going to change it. Yes. And that's some big [music] that's some big time decisions and takes a lot of maturity, but it's it's the wisest path, Katie. All right, John. Great show.

[music] Always fun hosting with you. Everyone in the booth, thank you. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, [music] and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 146. Stop Excusing Debt as a Dream | August 26, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `aM3xWJHfVQs` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3xWJHfVQs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:10:57 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, PhD in counseling, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show. Uh, a big hit

on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host.

Open Phones at8255225.

Danny is in Orange County. Hey, Danny.

What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Uh, big fan first and foremost. Big fan of No,

>> thank you. >> Um, I just have a a quick question here.

Um, so I've been married with my wife for about 10 years at this point.

Um, it's going to be in October, uh, 10 years, uh, milestone. Um, really happy about that. But, um, I don't think we're on the same page on finances. And so,

recently we had this hard conversation where I, uh, told her I want to get, you

know, a different account so that I can manage, uh, the money a little better.

um she's been um she's been managing the

finances for the amount that we've been married. Uh but at this point, we're

earning a lot more than what we did when we first started, you know, when we first got >> So, how did the conversation go after you told your wife she sucks at this?

>> Uh she didn't really say much. I just I hope you don't take this >> Yeah, she she's >> I said I hope you don't take this into, you know, with any offense, but I think it's my to take

>> um Right. And uh she just stood quiet

and we kind of went on with it. And so I said, I'm going to look into it. And I just I've been looking for which would be the best bank to open a new account with, but I haven't really done it. And yesterday I, you know, was going through

uh the different credit cards that we have and coming to find out that uh one of our credit cards is back, you know, into the debt. Um so I guess to give you

a little bit more context, we tried doing the second baby step, the snowball effect, and we were doing well.

Um so >> No, we weren't. You were. And she was doing whatever she wanted.

>> That's true. Yeah, >> I'll say >> what what is what is she so bad at that

brought you to a point where you sat down and said, >> "I need to I I feel so unsafe with our

family finances. I need to get our my own account."

>> So, I'm earning now six figures, which,

you know, she's been a great a big part of, you know, she supported me and now I'm earning 110K on a yearly basis. Um

um >> I I would I would I'm tempted to stop you right there and just say y'all are earning six figures.

>> Okay. Yeah, that is correct. Uh we are earning u 110 and she has a part-time.

So she brings in about 20 20k a year with the little part-time that she has.

And >> so we're doing a lot better than what we used to. And um we are still kind of

living paycheck to paycheck even with you know our our rent.

>> I know. I know. But here's what I'm I'm asking. What is what does she do now

that y'all are making 130 grand a year together?

What has she done that has has told you

you need to protect this family by getting money away from her and handling it all yourself?

Um, like I said, so I trusted that the

finances would go, I guess, good, but

she's even had to use a credit card to pay our rent.

Um, >> it tells me y'all don't have a budget, dude. >> Like, it tells me y'all have good ideas, but y'all aren't sitting down on the same when you stay on the same page. Like, y'all sit down at the beginning of every month and decide here's what's important to us. Here's what we have to do, and then here's the debts we're going to pay off in in this order.

And if y'all aren't having that conversation, it like we hear from people all the time who make way way way way more money than you, but they're still in a mess financially.

You're making more money, but you if y'all are still spending like like wild, it doesn't you're not doing any better.

>> You're fixing the problem with the wrong tool, honey. The tool of opening a separate account is not going to fix the problem. It's going to make it worse. So, here's what we need to do instead.

Okay. you called to ask. So, we'll tell you because we love you. All right.

>> 83% of the millionaires that we have surveyed, this is actual data, say that

they work hand in hand as teamwork with

a cooperative spouse towards our dreams.

Less than 50% of the general public say that. And they're not millionaires as a result. So, what we know is is that couples that work together on their finances in detail, uh, one of them

being more nerdy, one of them being more of a free spirit, one of them being a saver, one of them being a spender, but they have an agreement on the goal and an agreement before the month begins on the steps we're going to take with our money this month towards that goal.

Those couples that are aligned have end up with two things. Longer, happier marriages and a higher probability of building wealth. separate accounts works against that, not with that. And so

you're harming your future relationship and you're harming your probability to build wealth if you go the route you're asking about. So I'm going to beg you not to do that for your sake. Now, what do we do instead? Instead, we're going to put you on the every dollar budget and you're going to go and apologize to your wife for insulting her after she's been doing the bills for 10 years and now you woke up because you're making a little bit more money and decided you didn't like the way she's doing it.

before that she was fine. She was on her own and you know, no, that's not okay.

So, I'm sorry I insulted you. You were doing the best you could and I was trying to do something else and I was wrong with where I was going. So, instead, honey, what we're going to do is we're going to sit down and we're going to do this together. We're going to we're going to put in the Every Dollar app every dollar of our income before the month begins.

There will be no more credit cards. There will be no more no more debt. and we are going to use this wonderful income that we have to build a wonderful life and a wonderful future. And so we're going to sit down together.

Every dollar is going to have an assignment before the month begins. And then we're going to stick to that. Both of us are going to pinky swear spit shake. We have a marital contract that that's our game and we are going to do that.

Both of you have a vote and both of you have an agreement and both of you are grown-ups. No fit throwing. No four-year-olds. I work so hard.

Everybody works hard. Please call me the Wambbulance. Instead, get together, work on this stuff together, and you will see a change.

that's it. And the only other thing I would add is you can't put rent on the credit card if y'all have gone that extra step and cut up all the credit cards. If you have a backup plan in this situation, you're going to use it every time. And so, you got to take that ability.

You've proven to yourselves you can't get there if that's an if you have this off-ramp. So, you got to get rid of the off-ramp. You got to cut up the credit cards. >> Yeah.

Lobsters are the only things that survive going backwards. >> That's it. So, we're gonna cut them up and then we're gonna That's gonna force us every month to sit at the table and figure this thing out. >> Yeah.

That's the deal, man. Well, maybe shrimp. Yeah, maybe crawads. But, >> craads do, too.

>> Crustaceians. >> But, let me say this, right? >> And Dave said this the best, man. It's easy when you've been struggling financially.

when you cross that magic number, whether it's 75 grand or six figures or 500,000, it's to suddenly think you're better than um you're not.

you started the call, she's been a great support staff for you. So con be conscience of your language. This is y'all's money. This is y'all's debt.

This needs to be y'all's plan out of this mess. Um and again, Dave, I don't I

don't know another way that it works. >> No, you have to be together working this, not separate accounts. It doesn't work. I mean, everybody thinks that's some kind of individuality or something. If you want individuality, don't get married, okay? Geez, you're a horrible

spouse when you do that. Not you, but everybody that does it. So, hang on.

We're going to sign you up for every dollar advanced version for free. We'll pay for it. Help you guys get on the right track. You can do this, Danny.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

[Music] Karen is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Karen, how are you?

>> I am doing well. Thank you Dave and John

for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. I have been unemployed since February and I was in the process of

doing baby step two and I'm I still have

not gained uh employment. Why once I'm

employed I haven't gained employment because the sector that was really um affected had

reduced funding. So it's been very hard to be or get back into that.

>> So leave the sector go to something else. It's been February.

>> Yeah. And I have been trying even for

customer service. >> How you been eating since February?

>> Well, uh when I was unemployed, I had 12

weeks of unemployment and um my daughter

got social security. Her her father passed and adoption and I had an adoption assistant. So after that 12 weeks, my parents have been helping me tremendously. And I don't think that I

don't think without my parents' assistance that I would have gotten this far. >> Wow. Well, that's sweet that they're there. >> And uh what what were you doing before you lost your job?

>> Um I was a project coordinator in clinical research industry.

>> Okay. If you do you have project management skills?

>> I I I do. I supported project managers

and I am studying to get my project

management certification.

Um thankfully I got a scholarship so that I could be get the training and pay for my exam. So that has been a blessing. >> When when will that be?

>> Uh September the 6th.

>> Oh, good. Next week. Exam. Good.

>> Yeah. September the 6th. So, and um

>> listen, I I want you uh going crazy looking for a project manager job starting today. And in the meantime, I want you doing 42 things at the local mall, working retail, customer service from home, Walmart, Target, anybody

that'll put you in there. And believe me, Target will put you in there if you're breathing. >> So, um yeah, go get something at $20 an hour and get some money coming in to get the fear out of the back of your voice.

cuz that fear in the back of your voice, I don't want it there when you're interviewing for these project manager jobs.

>> Of of course. And um like I said, I was

doing the baby steps and I had $1,000 in my in the um emergency fund and I felt

like that that I wasn't even prepared for a layoff in my years.

>> You were in debt and broke.

>> Yeah. >> When you're in debt and broke, you're not prepared for a layoff. Of course, you weren't. Uh, and that and we don't but we don't spend our lives staying in debt >> getting ready for a layoff either.

>> So, you were doing the right thing. The only thing that the only thing I would, you know, question is I got to tell you, I'm I'm back to work in about 48 hours after I leave a job. I'm going to go crazy because it scares me to death not working and not making money. I can't handle it.

the idea that the unemployment might be all I had, but that would scare me to the point I'd be willing to do almost anything that was legal and moral >> immediately. So, I want some I want I want to light a fire under you, girl. Go get something today. I want you earning some money right this second.

And then I want you to go get this project manager job, and I'm going to send you some of Ken Coleman's materials to help you do that.

you get laid off. Sometimes you um it steals some of your

confidence, some of your swagger.

>> Steals a ton of it. Yeah. >> It makes you think it has something to do with you and it didn't have anything to do with you, wasn't your fault. And then the second thing is it while people are recovering, grieving that uh as if

there was a death because there kind of is. Uh, it's easy to get paralyzed and

drag this out. The a and have tunnel

vision and think I've got to go back doing the same kind of job exactly that I did before. Uh, you need a new one. And as you said, that sector is sick. So, get out of that sector. Yeah. I love the idea of professional identity being about who you help, knowing that how and who you

help is going to change over time. But I'm a person who helps. And so that might be at Burger King for a season, that might be at Home Depot for a season, and that might be a full-time psychologist for a like it doesn't matter like if that core identity. So finding out you're a person who helps people solve problems, that might be a TJ TJ Maxx, and that might be as a project manager for a high flutin research, >> making 100 grand, >> right?

But it's when our ego gets trapped in the job title, man, then you can stay unemployed for a long, long time. >> You can't stay unemployed 10 more minutes, girl. You got to go get it. >> That's right.

And you said something real important and I don't know how this works.

whenever I hired people, I could always tell who felt like I would be lucky to

have them and who desperately needed me to have them. And it just it impacted how I hired. There's a swagger you walk in when you are applying for a job. It's like, hey, I want to be here and you'd be really lucky to have me versus please please please please hire me. And when

you are able to eat and when you're able when you've got another job in your back pocket, you can have a more honest direct conversation. Then I'll take whatever you got. Please just there's a desperation that that just is in the air. >> It's in the air. It's in your body language. It's in your voice tone. It's in the pauses in your sentences. It's in everything. And people can read it even if they don't know they're reading it.

>> Uh Kelly Pickup, let's get her on uh Find the Work You're Wired to Do by Coleman and Proximity Principle. And uh then I want you Karen to go to his website at kleman.com and download all the forms. They're free to write the letter to get right in somebody's face and go get some positions right now.

That is the answer to the equation is income and and looking in the mirror and saying Karen's awesome. There's nothing wrong with Karen. It's a thing that happened. Now Karen's going to get it.

Get it. Courtney's in California. Hi Courtney. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey, so um really very recently um I

just my husband came to me and told me that we had a significant amount of debt

um consumer debt, consumer debt, credit cards. Um it was about 50,000 um

>> that I didn't know about. Um so we had

some equity in our home. I took out a heliloc loan to to just to get rid of it. It was high interest credit cards and we have the HELOC loan now and that's those are all paid down or they're paid down and then through the HELOC loan they canceled them all. Um I

thought we were kind of through the storm of it. He came to me last night or just the other day and told me there's an additional 27,000 um SoFi loan that he took out to pay off

the credit cards a year ago and then wrecked them back up. Um,

so >> Courtney, what's he spending money on? >> It's not the first time.

>> Well, I I asked for statements. I was going through some statements. Um, it's mostly food. I only have statements from this year. He hasn't sent me the statements from last couple years. I

>> partially my fault. I should have been more involved with finances. Um, I had some complicated pregnancies and so I just I asked them to handle it for the last few years because it's the pregnancies and just getting some stuff off of my plate. I work a high um >> so is he is are you guys not making your ends meet and this is the way he's covering it and he didn't want to burden you with it cuz you asked him to handle it.

>> Yes, that was what's happened.

>> Are you confident of that? It's rare that somebody runs up $75,000 and there's not something else they're hiding.

>> Yeah. So I don't I don't know yet. He I'm still waiting on statements.

>> I wouldn't wait another 24 hours. I wouldn't wait another 24 hours. It's it's all electronic. You can log in right away.

>> Any pause on his account is hiding stuff.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that's scary. >> It It should be. Yeah. Let's get Let's get to the bottom of it. And then to There's two possible options. There's something really scary going on that that you still don't know about that's really bad. or uh it's simply he's sh

ashamed that he wasn't able to handle everything for you during a time that you were hurting and he didn't want to tell you.

>> Okay? And that's the le that's the most innocuous of all and that one's easy to fix. It's now time for you to be a big girl and get involved. The two of you together handle money together for the rest of your lives. I don't care who's going through a tough season. Both of you are grown-ups. for rich or for poor in sickness and in health. We're doing this together and we both have full

disclosure. None of us is being cared for unless there's an extreme illness of some kind that is ongoing and chronic.

In which case, you accept the consequences of not knowing what's going on. >> I would pull both credit reports tonight on both of you. Yep. From the three credit reporting agencies so you get a clear picture.

We're going to log into the accounts tonight and go through them together. Um, and then y'all are going to be you're going to put a freeze on your credit report so y'all can't take out any more loans without the other person knowing. >> And a promise that we're not going to do that anymore.

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Well, you got to have a month for everything. I guess August is make a will month. Gross.

Okay, that's all right. It's not gross to make a will, though. It's kind of a grown-up thing to do because it's the admission that the people in your life you love are going to have a plan cuz you're going to be a grown-up and leave them a plan. And that's called a will.

Grown-ups leave a will.

Period. If you're 18 years old or older, you need a will. I don't care if you have any assets. I don't care. You don't want the government deciding what happens to your pets or your kids.

Not necessarily in that order either.

So, the deal is you want a will. You

need a will. It's grown-up things to do.

What What is it that millennials called it a few years ago? Adulting. Adulting.

As if that was a verb. Okay.

Procrastination. 43% of adults without a will say they just hadn't gotten around to it. Yeah. Perfectionism. I have to make some big decisions I don't want to make. Well, then what? Let's just put it off till you die. That'll work. Nope. Uh uh. I think I need a certain amount of assets. I covered that. A belief that everything will automatically go to family. It doesn't. It goes to the lawyers. That's who gets it if you don't do this. Uncertainty about the process.

Well, you got to figure out where to start. Go to ramseysolutions.com/willquiz.

It's a free quiz and we'll help you walk through this. You need to get your will

done. ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz.

It's a grown-up thing. And we've done detailed research. You're going to die.

No one gets out of this alive.

>> 100%. >> And there is no correlation between doing a will and the probability of death. You're going to die anyway, so you might as well. And if you want to piss people off with your will, do it while you're alive. John is here. John's

in Amarillo, Texas. Hey, John. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, I was just calling. I'm uh I'm 20 years old and I'm full-time student and full-time working outside of school. And um >> What are you What are you studying?

>> Business. >> Good. Okay. >> Are you out there at WT?

>> Yes. Good for you.

>> And then uh I was curious. So I'm in the farm and ranch industry and uh I'm about

oh I was about $100,000 in debt on

vehicle loans and then I just recently took out $100,000 to like start a cattle

business. >> Are you punking me? How who gave a 20-year-old a $100,000 cow loan?

>> I know >> who >> I don't know. >> No. Yeah. You know if you did you really do it or not? Are you punking us?

>> Yes, I did. No, I really did it.

>> You're kidding me. Who made the loan?

What's the company's name?

>> I want to make sure all of America hears who's stupid out there.

>> It's a local bank here.

>> What's the name of the local stupid bank? The name of the bank.

>> Uh, education.

>> Education is the name of a bank.

>> Yeah, education credit.

>> Education credit. You pay for it with a student loan education. They gave a 20 year old $100,000 loan to buy cattle.

>> Yes. And I have a CD also.

>> How big is your CD?

>> 100,000. >> Oh, so they didn't give you a loan. You borrowed your own money?

>> Pretty much. Yes, sir. >> Where'd you get $100,000 in a CD?

>> It was a a partnership between me and a

family member on some cattle that we've had for about 10 years. And when we sold those uh >> So you made a profit and now you pledge the whole profit into another herd.

>> Yes. >> All right. What What size cows >> currently? >> What size c What size?

>> What size? >> How many head?

>> I got 25 head.

>> And then how big are they?

>> They are 3 to six years old and they're going to be having cavs in about two to three months. >> Do you know how to cave?

babies.

>> Yes. Okay. >> He's grew up on it. He grew up in it. The family member was his father, probably. All right, honey. Uh, you you called the wrong show. I'm sorry. How can we try to help you?

>> I'm just trying to figure out really like what I can do and if I'd like made a good decision on trying to like take this loan out to >> How long have you listened to this show, huh?

>> Um, about two years probably. Have you

ever heard me tell anyone to borrow money for anything?

>> No, I haven't. >> Ever? >> No, sir. >> Okay. >> And here's here's how I'm afraid about you. >> Kind of know you walked into the lion's den, right?

>> Yes. >> Well, here's what I'm afraid you're about to do. Those cows right now, beef is at an all-time high because there's been drought, right?

>> Yes. and you're going to have babies and you might maybe you might be able to get

away with this one and then you're going to go do it again and you're gonna you're going to put more down on it and you're going to take out a bigger loan >> and then in 18 months or 24 months when everyone's got back into new cows because there's been some rain, the beef prices are going to plummet >> and you're going to be up a creek.

You're going to have lost it all. >> Yeah. Your CD is what you lost. The bank hasn't gained risk. I think back's not stupid at all. They're begging for you to not pay this. They're just going to scarf your CD. >> He's I think you're going to make your money on this one. I think you're going to It's the It's the $250,000 loan you take after this one.

>> Um >> I think based on my math and everything, the market looks like it's going to stay where it's at for at least two years.

>> And uh I'm planning on being able to pay this note off uh the third year.

I think there's no chance. >> As long as the market doesn't go 50% less than what it is right now, I should be able to get it done in three years.

>> Okay. >> I would get it done in one year. And here's why. The the only reason Dave and I have a job is because people like you say, "If this is if this scheme I'm running just hangs on for three more years, I'm going to be all right." And it doesn't.

>> Right. >> That's the problem. >> Right. So, um,

would you have done this if you just cashed out your CD and used your money?

>> Um, yes, I believe so.

>> Okay. If you're going to play make a play like this, you should do it with real money, not borrowed money. Okay, number one. Number two, what year in business school are you? First, second, third, fourth. >> Um, I will be a I'm between my sophomore

and junior year. >> Okay. I want you to start doing some reading on commodities because beef is a commodity, okay? And

there's one thing that drives beef

prices. Supply and demand.

That's all. And if there's a shortage of

beef, the prices run up.

>> If there's an over supply versus the demand, the prices go down. So your math

was a wild guess. That's what your math was. So

anybody that's playing commodities, 100% of the time, you're guessing about what

the future is going to do. The track record, the history of it on beef, like

a lot of commodities, has gone up. But another commodity that you could study the volatility of if you want to test my my basic theory of economics here is

oil. Look at the barrel of oil and see what it's done.

Okay? It's up and down, up and down. Up and down based based on guess what?

Whether the Middle East turns the spot on or off. Whether the local domestic

policy for drill baby drill >> turns the spot on or off. If the spets are off, oil prices go through the roof and then so does the gas pump after that. If the spets are wide open, oil prices drop through the floor.

Okay? Has nothing to do with the inherent value of oil. It's the shortage

or the over supply versus demand. And that's the game you're playing. Meaning that from a business perspective or a

investment perspective, you are gambling. You are rolling the dice.

Because you are in the world of beef, because you grew up in it, because you know something about the actual cattle,

you have talked yourself into believing that you can predict a commodity's price. That is unbelievably dangerous

and it will end in your failure eventually if you keep doing this. So,

the next time you get ready to make a gamble and you're going to put $100,000

on red or $100,000 on black,

make sure it's your money. So, when you lose it, at least it's just your money that's gone. If it goes up, it was your

money that went up. If you're going to play this game, play it with cash, son.

But I wouldn't play it. I wouldn't play it at the level you're playing it. I wouldn't do it at 20 years old, period.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

gang. If you like what you hear, we could use your help. You are our best marketing plan. You're probably close to our only one, but yeah, click the subscribe button, the follow button. It helps with the algorithm big time and it causes the show to be pushed out over the various platforms in front of people who didn't know we were here previous because you liked it or you subscribed it or you followed it or you uh better than that you shared it. Tell people about us.

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Thank you so much. We appreciate you.

Steve is with us in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the show. >> Thank you, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> I am 78 years old, retired, divorced,

and have no debt. I have 300,000 in a

Roth IRA, all in mutual funds, 100,000

in a traditional IRA, all in mutual funds, 1.2 2 million in an inherited IRA

in individual stocks, 3.7 million in a

brokerage account in individual stocks, about a 100,000 in cash, giving me a net

worth of about 5.4 million.

>> Way to go. >> My issue today is that in that brokerage, the taxable brokerage account, I have stock in one company with a value of 1.8 million, which represents 34% of my net worth. It's

continuing to grow and the outlook is good. My tax basis on that stock is

$58,000 which means it's all subject to

capital gains and I absolutely hate

paying capital gains tax. >> I don't blame you. >> What would you do?

>> Wow.

Uh did you inherit any of this? You said an inherited IRA was 1.2.

>> You have the rest of it other than that?

>> No. Well, I I inherited uh

>> 250,000 in cash, put it in stocks. I've

taken 450 in RMDs and it's still worth

1.2. >> Yeah. Wow.

>> The rest of it were just investments throughout. >> You've done amazing, Steve. No one can question. >> Extremely lucky. >> Well, yeah, you were lucky. You were blessed and you were smart and you were working and you were saving money while everybody else was spending it. So, I'm proud of you. Good work. Um, well, I

think your analysis, and I don't know what your background is, but it's excellent. Your analysis is excellent.

Um, one-third of your net worth is tied up in one single company, and as it goes, so goes your net worth. That's scary.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That that's um standing on one leg and somebody's kicking at your knee. I I I can add that I had some of that same stock in my inherited RA about a half

million and sold that because of the percentage getting up. But everything >> is in my taxable now in my >> Well, so here's the thing. You're going to trade some taxes for some safety.

Diversification equals safety.

Or you're going to take the risk

>> because you don't want to pay the taxes.

It's a simple formula. Yeah. I mean, you you know, there's no way around it. You're going to pay the taxes if you liquidate this cuz there's nothing. It's not in any kind of a protected account.

Uh there's nothing you can do a roll on it. There's nothing like that. You just have are just going to take the hit. Um I uh you know, I I would not do where

the I would not do enough where the taxes activate me above 15. Uh had come,

your income may already be over 400k, though, is it? >> No. No, it's actually not. Uh my taxable

income this year is basically going to be RMD from that. And you know, I'm I'm expecting about 160,000 taxable income this year. >> Okay. All right. Well, if I remember correctly, and I'm trying to pull up a cheat sheet because I can't I don't have it. Um the uh the max on on the capital

gains is 400 or somewhere right around there. If they had moved it up, it was 400 before you get kicked. Have you looked that up yet?

I I I I plugged in uh oh just

arbitrarily about $600,000 uh capital gain in that and it came out to about uh 25% federal and state tax I

would pay >> that well that okay because if you go above 400 it goes from 15 to 20 on

federal and I don't know what your state has but it must be five apparently.

>> I'm not sure. So, if you keep it under 400 and you rolled 400 inside of keep your total income under 400 or whatever the number is. I'm not a tax guy obviously, but I I'm going to move at up to the 400 mark, the 340,000 or whatever

I can move um or 240,000, whatever I can

move to not get above 400. And I'm going to start gradually moving this at 15%

because I don't like the risk of the lack of diversification.

you you know you it's painful to rebalance your accounts, but you you you're gonna take the risk if you don't

and you're you're looking at that company going um I'm really really like you

if I cuz I'm I'm going to I'm going to be over there eating in their lunchroom seeing how people are doing.

I've heard you ask before if someone would uh if their life would change, if maybe they lost certain amount of money or whatever. >> Yeah. >> And uh if I >> Yeah. If you lo if you lost 1.8 million, you would feel that. Yeah.

>> So >> I don't think you're going to lose it all. It just could go in half.

>> Um >> Yeah. Well, Steve, I've got Steve I got I just get itchy because I grew up in Houston when Enron went away and I had friends and family that worked at Enron and it man that just makes me nervous or just thinking about what Tesla was a year ago versus what it is right now.

Everyone can. It's just so easy to think, h this one's got a good upside to it. And man, my my my lived experiences sometimes these things are just a vapor, you know. >> I understand. I know nothing's for sure.

I don't know what it do you any good to know the company that I've >> No, >> no, because it doesn't matter. I want to It sounds like I'm trashing just that individual company and I'm not. I'm trashing the last diversification.

>> Yeah. >> And so, um, yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I'm I'm going to start systematically moving out of this. I'm not going to panic and pay the over 20%. Um, see, are

you married filing jointly or sing? You said single, didn't you? >> Single. Divorce, single. >> Okay. You got I just pulled it up while we were talking because I didn't know it's up to 566,000 now. >> Okay. That you can move. And so if you got 160, that leaves you uh 400 that you

could move a year and still not be at except at 15%.

>> Yeah. Yeah, >> cuz you got a $58,000 basis. So, it's pure gain basically, >> right? >> So, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to start moving about 400,000 a year uh over and paying the 15%. And the 15% is

my is not just tax, it's the cost of

safety due to diversification versus lack of diversification. And that's the way I'm going to look at it. I don't want to be that deep into one company.

And um so, good question though. Wow.

Congratulations still. I mean, you've done a lot of obviously very smart things and at 78 you're calling to ask that question. Uh, that's a pretty technical ticky tacky question and it it

shows you really know what the flip you're doing. Congratulations. Very neat. Very neat.

>> That also shows to all the 26-year-old

um George calls them the Instagram bros.

It's just dedicated time. It's just time. Small amount over time.

>> Yeah. >> Bought that at 56k and it's 1.8 million.

That is just getting in early and just set it and forget it. Just go slow.

>> Yeah. I mean, there's not a um I can't think of a publicly traded company that's a household name. Well, I don't know when he bought it at 58. That's the other thing.

It would give you that in a short period of time, >> right? >> It's not going to go to 1.8 in a short period of time. I know there's not one on the big board on the New York Stock Exchange. There's not one >> unless you had a friend who worked at Nvidia the day of or something.

I don't know if you could get in on that one. >> You know, you were your wife was in Congress or something. >> There you go. >> That'd be helpful.

But yeah, that kind of stuff. But yeah, the um that it's the only way you're going to I don't know of I don't know of a stock that's done that.

And the lack of diversification is one of the reasons. All of the data,

even though Steve has done incredibly well, and I do congratulate him. All the data for the rest of us says we buy mutual funds because there's 90 to 200 different stocks in the average mutual fund. If you had 1.8 8 million and 9,200 stocks, you'd be perfectly safe compared to you've bet 34% of a $5 million net

worth on one singular company's behaviors.

They can make the decision to do anything stupid and suddenly you could have a Budlight moment >> in in half. Yeah. >> I mean, it could be >> Tesla moment or any any Cracker Barrel moment right now. Like any of them. >> You can see the stock just nose dive.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You can have all that. And I don't I don't I don't want that. I don't have control over that. So, I'm not putting my money in that

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Dr.

John Deloney, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Anna is with us in Utah. Hi, Anna. How are you?

>> Good. How are you there, Nick? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. So, um, my husband and I were 35 years old. We we both hold master's degree, master's degrees. I work um part-time. We've got littles and we're in our second home that we've owned. And I've I've found a lot in my dream area

um to build on. Um, but it's very pricey

and not not where we'd want for a mortgage. It'd make it a high mortgage.

And I wondered if there's there's any time it'd be appropriate. We we both make good money. Um to my parents have offered to help us out with about 10000,000 to make it more of an affordable mortgage. Um anytime that

that'd be appropriate to take that kind of money or or how >> Yeah. My husband I mean just my husband disagrees and doesn't think that that that we should do that. So does that make sense my question that you should not take the gift from your parents or you should not buy the lot?

>> Um I mean both. It would require taking the gift from my parents to buy the lot.

>> But he doesn't want to buy the lot.

>> He doesn't want to take the money from my parents, so therefore not do the lot.

But I think >> What's the lot cost?

>> 425. Really expensive lot.

It's in a really nice area. So I I think

it's a good opportunity. I don't want to lose it. And my parents, it wouldn't be a loan. But I think that we >> I think you told me three times in indirectly, you can't afford it.

Yes. >> The what the words you're using say it's I I can't chew this amount of food if I put it all in my mouth.

>> Yeah. I mean with if we did do it, it'd be about a you know close to 50% of our income for the mortgage. So >> you got lot fever, girl.

>> You need to take a cold shower.

>> You also have not wanting to be in the

life you live in right now fever.

>> Yeah. You you cannot afford to live that in that place. you don't make enough money.

>> What's a $100,000 loan from your parents or a gift, whatever you want to call it, what's that going to actually cost you?

>> Like emotionally or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What kind of strings are attached? >> Yeah, that >> I have no problem somebody getting a big gift from their parents. I think it's amazing and I hope I can do that with my kids, but I'm going to have to make sure in my spirit there's no strings attached to it when I give it.

>> Like, >> yeah, I think that's my husband's concern that it'd be It's based on the track record. He didn't just dream this concern up. >> Right. >> So, I'm asking you, what what are the strings?

>> Um, not a lot of strings, but I mean, just Yeah. I think he'd just feel

uncomfortable and just normal.

>> Are you an only child?

>> No. >> Are you the oldest daughter?

>> The only daughter. >> The youngest. >> The youngest daughter. Are you the only daughter?

>> No. Cuz I'm confused about why your parents want to participate in helping you be broke

>> to live this to live your little dream to live your dream that you can't afford >> cuz you told me six times you can't afford this. I mean indirectly you know in your heart your brain is your brain is telling you you can't afford it.

>> Yeah. >> I'm more interested >> time and if times change >> Yeah. >> and that kind of mortgage wouldn't be as crazy in a few years. >> Well then get it then. We'll talk about it then. But right now it's cray cray.

>> I I'm worried about what it is about your life. You've you both got the schooling that you wanted. You have you have the family that you wanted. What is it about that life that you're not at peace with?

>> Um we're currently the the home we're in is in a dream area. Wonderful area. It's the same place the lot is at, but it's an older home and it's given us a lot of problems including termites which has been kind of traumatic for me. We've gotten those taken care of.

So, I don't know if that's a Yeah.

>> So, what is your home? What is your home? >> Might have been a >> Currently, we think we could make 600 off it. >> You could make 600 off of it. Okay. And the lot is 425.

>> Sorry, that wouldn't be made. >> I'm sorry. >> 425. That's without the build. So, >> I know. I know. And and the uh and and the 100th gift. And uh you're you have

600 equity or the price would be 600?

>> The price. Uhhuh.

>> Okay. How is a house in the same neighborhood as a $425,000 lot only selling for $600,000?

It ought to be amazing. >> I mean, that's maybe we could get more.

That's just it's >> Where did you get 600? >> The area the area has no um that was not

appraised, but that's kind of what comparisons to around the area have been. >> Okay. All right. Cuz if you buy a lot,

let me tell you, if you buy a lot for 400, it's the >> the rule of thumb in building is is the lot should be around 20% of the total >> when you're done. >> Okay. >> All right. And and so that means you're building a $2 million house

and you don't have that kind of money, do you? What do what's your income?

>> About 200.

>> Yeah. You don't have that kind of money.

And um >> I could work full-time.

Not what I want to do with the little right now. >> Oh, I don't want >> It's not worth it. >> It's not worth it. I mean, you could kill termites.

You can't kill a big mortgage. >> That's why I keep I I don't think this is the house. I think this is something about you not being in the skin you're in. >> Yeah.

>> Well, it's the scarcity. I mean, it's on the mountain. There's no more lots around here. Everything's built out here.

You have to go out west if you want to. >> Yeah. But somebody's going to buy that lot and build on it. and then their their nest egg is going to need to move somewhere.

They're going to have grandkids and they're going to that house will come up on the market.

>> It's Listen, there's there's plenty of lots and there's plenty of mountains and there's the rest of your life to figure that out. Um yeah,

>> Dave Dave, I hear this. >> Listen, I I am a spender and I love real estate and I'm running through my head the number of times I have sounded like her. I I'm telling you, man, she's about to do something. >> I have gotten I get the fever for something and I get like a dog on a bone and I'm I'm just like a chasing a rabbit

running through the forest looking. I'm going to I'm going to run this thing down and I can hear that because I do

it. I can I have to catch myself and go, "Wait a minute. This is stupid." I mean, I I can tell I can point to you a lot down by our lakehouse that I chased like this. And it is a very unique property.

It's on a peninsula and you own the whole peninsula. >> Yeah.

lake." And so I, you know, I I that's a that's a 10-year story I just did right there. >> Yeah. >> But I I had I had the Jones for that stupid lot. >> Yeah. >> It's like I I can do I can totally relate to you. Take a cold shower. Don't buy the lot. You can't afford it.

>> And you there's something wrong about the way you're approaching this. It John's hearing it in your voice and your words. I am too. And you you're willing

to sacrifice even dealing with your parents to get it. That's how bad you want this. Even you've done the math like okay what if I gave up a core value which is staying home with my kids and I gave up that for this like piece of dirt. >> Yeah there's something on the on on the grass is greener in in your spirit right now. >> Godliness with contentment is great gain

and when I have violated that and I have I just told you a story when I was doing I didn't end up with a lot but I swear to I think God just literally kept me from getting >> I walked out of guitar the other night with my hands in my pockets. >> Stupidity. Yeah. I didn't have good spirit. That's right. >> Yeah. And I just Man, it's like going to an auction, >> man. >> Keep flicking your ear. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

>> Touching your nose.

It's bad, y'all. Oh, we all got it. You know we do.

[Music]

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[Music]

Blake is in Arizona. Hey Blake, how are you?

>> Great, thanks. >> How can we help?

>> So background is I'm 62, my wife is 51.

Um, we do not currently have any debt.

Our home is paid for. Uh, I recently

retired and and started taking social security after I was let go from my job after 34 years. And, um, we have, um, I

I still have my 401k just sitting left with my former employer. I have about 1.1 million in that and another 100,000

in a Roth. We have um approximately

$500,000 in a high yield money market earning

about 3.5%.

We want to know it's really not, you

know, it's safe, but it's not returning the kind of money that we really need to really don't uh we're living on uh

pretty much below our means.

um my social security and then I also

picked up a part-time job working at a local golf course just just for for something more to do. Um that covers our expenses. We're looking we're we're wondering what would be best to do with that uh approximately $500,000

for us for the future. And then also we'd like to start uh putting we have a new baby grandchild and we'd like to start saving for them. What what would you recommend?

>> Wow. Uh what' you used to earn at your other position?

>> Um I varied uh in income. Um at the last

when I was let go, I made a little over $100,000. >> Okay. All right. The 1.1 million is in traditional or Roth?

>> Uh it's in traditional. Okay.

>> It's in a Fidelity uh like a target date

fund. >> Okay. All right. Um,

I would have you sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and there's a couple of things in this portfolio I want to work on and I'll give you the background on what and why. Okay. Um, a Smart Vster

Pro is is a network of people that are in the business. We don't do investing at Ramsey, but we endorse these folks.

We embrace them and they uh are aligned

with the teaching that we give. So, you're going to hear things that sound a lot like Ramsay when you sit down with one of them. The first thing is you never invest anything without understanding it yourself. You've done a very good job getting to this point.

Congratulations.

Uh you're you're almost multi-millionaires and you're definitely millionaires and it's pretty incred Well, you are multimillionaires because your house is worth >> um enough to get you over the 2 million mark. So net worthwise. So good.

Congratulations. You're in really, really, really good shape. Um I got two things here. One, we want to get the 500 invested, which is your question. The second thing is I want to begin to think about how to move that 1.1 gradually to Roth and pay some taxes on it. Uh because at 72 you're going to be facing which is going to be here in a heartbeat uh only 11 years. You're going to be facing what's called RMDs, required minimum distributions on that.

>> And uh I want to keep that from happening. And if you die with the whole thing intact, uh the entire account of course is taxable in an inherited IRA

uh for your kids. And by then it'll be $3 million, >> okay? >> Because you're not going to die anytime soon. And it'll it'll double and double again, double again. Might be five or $6 million even. And so if it's in a Roth, if we can get it into a Roth gradually in the next 11 years before you get to RMDs, A, you don't have RMDs. B, your kids will never pay taxes on it. C you'll never pay taxes on it. if you decide to use some of it for something.

So, if it is invested and I would probably reset the investments inside of there today uh from target date into some quality long track record growth

stock mutual funds. I invest inside my retirement and I've recommended for 30 years people do that in growth growth and income aggressive growth and international. I do not do target

um because I don't believe because I'm 64. from getting ready to be 65, a touch older than you. Uh, and I this the data

tells us that if at your age and my age, if we're in good shape, healthy, right, which you are right now, I guess, and I am too. You didn't tell me otherwise, that we have a high likelihood of making it into our 90s statistically. And so that's still 30 years you've got to outpace inflation. And that target date is going to dumb down your returns as you get a little bit older.

Uh, and there's no need to do that because you don't need you you can handle the little bit of risk that a good quality investment portfolio represents. So, I'm gonna move you away from target date. I'm going to move you towards Roth with the 1.1. That's two things.

All of this, as you understand it, don't do it cuz I said do it. But, I'm really happy at right now that all of my retirement accounts are Roth for those reasons. I don't have RMD. I won't ever have any taxes on it.

inherited IRA. >> How how are you are are am I able to

convert the traditional?

>> You're going to pay taxes when you do. You're going to pay taxes on the amount you convert every year. That's why you're going to want to do it in stages to keep bracket creep from hitting you so hard >> because it's all ordinary income.

There's no capital gains available on.

Now, moving on to the 500, which was your original question, >> which is a good question, too. You've done a great job. I just want to say it over and over. These are minor tweaks, but they'll help you to the tune of millions of dollars over the next two decades. Um, the 500, >> that's what we're looking for. >> Yeah, the 500 uh the 500 obviously you

do need to get that invested sitting there in a stupid high yield. It's crazy. It needs to get you lost 50 grand last year or 60 grand by sitting there and you you could that would have been nice to have around. So, um >> yeah, don't tell my wife that. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's missed what the market did versus what you did. You know, that's what you're missing. Opportunity cost, >> right? So the uh what you're going to do there is look for what's called a low turnover mutual fund. So inside the

mutual fund there's 90 to 200 stocks. If they sell almost none of them low turnover of the stocks, it does not activate any taxable gain or very little

taxable gain unless you sell it.

>> Okay. An example of that is an S&P 500.

They typically have a 3 or 4% turnover ratio, meaning 97% of the stocks sit

there and grow, but create no taxes.

It's like buying a single share of Home

Depot for 50 bucks and it goes to 70.

You don't pay any taxes on the 20 until you sell it. That's capital gains growth. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, it's like buying a rental house for 500 grand, it goes to 700 grand. You don't pay any gain capital gains tax.

You don't pay any tax on that 200 growth till you sell the house. Same thing's true in a low turnover mutual fund. So you're not going to have taxes. That's great for now. When you do have taxes and do decide to pay them, they're going to be at capital gains rate, which is 15% instead of 37%. So that's wonderful.

So low turnover growth stock mutual funds. So I use S&P 500s for a lot of

that. You can use other stuff, too. I've got another couple of million in in a different one that's not an S&P that I'm letting sit. The S&P I use it for saving up to buy real estate. But the uh um

anyway, so you're looking to learn about the low turnover mutual fund because it grows with no taxation unless you pull it out.

>> Okay? >> And and you're going to get marketplace growth because S&P 500 is going to be, >> you know, traditionally it's been 11 12% a year >> uh has been the rate of returns. So um in the last two years it was over 20%.

It's not going to be that forever. That's not it's an offbeat thing, but uh so low turnover mutual funds uh that

keeps you from paying taxes on it as it grows unless you pull it out. If you leave it alone a year and you do pull it out, it's only going to be at capital at capital gains rate, not an ordinary income rate. So smart. All of this to say, learn all that again because you don't want to learn it from some guy on the dad gum podcast.

Um you want to sit down, learn about this yourself. It's millions of dollars. It's matters. So you're smart to ask the questions.

Their job is to teach you what is possible and then you choose among the

things that are possible and that'll get you there. But that little those two little tweaks right there in the next two decades are probably $4 million,

maybe more in in in what happens to your stuff versus target regular investments versus target date. um Roth versus

traditional and low turnover versus high yield. Uh and that those rates of return and that that amount of money, that's what it's going to do. And a good thing to keep in mind if you're looking at this stuff, folks, is it's fun to do the math real quick. Okay, he's sitting on basically $2 million. If it's growing at 10% every seven years, it's going to double. He's 61. At 68, he's going to

have 4 million. At 75,

he's going to have 8 million. At 82, he's going to have 16 million and he's very likely to get there statistically from an actuarial table, which is the death rate table thing, okay, for life insurance policies. So once you make it up to into your 60s and you're healthy, you're not going to die at 76. Usually you 76 is your average male death rate, but that includes infant mortality, teenage death, and so on. So you can't run your numbers based on that anymore once you get to be old like me and him.

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[Music]

Dr. Dr. John Deloney has had

three number one bestsellers.

Two of them big, hairy, nice hardback books. John, none of them are as pretty as this. They're not as pretty or And

none of them are as personally important

to a guy that struggles with being on time as the 2026 Ramsay goal planner.

>> Yeah, you have a goal and a planner.

Maybe you can be on time. >> But if you write >> I did see the thing you did on Instagram. That's pretty funny. If you co-write a book with Rachel Cruz and Jade Warshaw, it's going to the the beauty will win out over whatever madness I was trying to put.

>> I got to tell you, the um I the the Ramsay team, >> they're unbelievable. >> Uh the design team, yeah, the Ramsey gold planner is a big deal. Everybody gets them every year and they always sell out. Uh we only do about 10,000 of them, but they they sell out like immediately here in the fall.

So, this is 2026.

creatives. We kind of just turn the creatives loose and go have fun, >> right? >> This is like their sandbox. >> And usually I'm like, "Yeah, I want to see it." And they say, "You're not allowed to see this one." >> Yeah.

And uh you're not allowed to touch this, John. Nope. >> Dave, you can't even say anything about how much it costs cuz it costs a lot to produce the thing. >> It's a beautiful piece, though.

The weird thing is we did cut the price.

>> We do. We we sell it early and we do cut the price significantly. And I want to shout out everybody who's fighting the system and still writes things down with

pen and paper. Got to tell you, >> I love it. I love it. >> My wife and I in the morning is one of the things she says, "Let's do calendars, >> which is one of the things we stay aligned on our money. We stay aligned on our time." >> Oh, that's romance talk in my house.

>> Then we stay aligned. Yeah.

>> So, um >> yeah, we we this morning she said, "Let's do calendars." Let me tell you what she gets out old school.

>> That's what my wife does. this little black thing with a little flip on it and it flips it open. It's got She's It's all written down. Yep. >> And uh you know what? It doesn't get deleted. >> Nope. >> Unless you mark through it. >> There's no AI going through it.

>> $35.97 if you want to pre-order. It's the best deal you're going to get cuz that we paid a lot to produce these. So

yeah, we did Jade Rachel and Deloney uh monthly content from them as you go through your months and planning. If you grab it before Labor Day, it's just $35.97. lowest gut price. Even Black Friday pricing won't beat this.

ramseysolutions.com/store.

If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. I got to tell you, we put out a lot of nice products. I'm really, really proud of this product. Uh the people that get it always love it. Um

it's a lot and you got it. It's all there. It walks you through lessons from Rachel, from Jade, and from Dr. Deloney

as you're going through. And you can lay out your spiritual year. You can lay out your physical year, you can lay out your time. It's all in there. And it is an incredible, incredibly well-designed tool. And again, it's a beautiful, beautiful piece of work. So, all the way around. Eric is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi,

Eric. What's up?

>> Hi, good afternoon everyone. So, I am a third-year medical student and I've talked to a lot of physicians who have advised me not to worry about loans because they'll easily be paid off when you're earning a physician salary down the line. >> Sure. Easily.

>> Med students never call.

>> That's a long ways away.

>> New residents never call into the show, Eric. Ever panicking. So, you're you're

>> nothing. Go ahead. Go ahead, Eric.

Um, so I also recently got married about eight, nine months ago, and I want to know the best way for my wife and I to be proactive about our loans starting now and manage slash know how much we

should be putting aside for savings for a house, investing in our Roths at this time. >> I love your question. It's a very wise question to say, I'm getting ready to come into some money. >> What is the smart thing to do with it?

I've worked really, really hard to get to this point. What is how can I be the smartest and get the most traction with all this work I put in because you've worked your tail off to get here.

Congratulations, sir.

>> So, very good question. All right. All all snarkiness aside, I'm still going to tell you the truth. The first rule is this. I live in Nashville,

okay? And um so I know the country music

folk. I grew up in Nashville. I know country music folk, okay? And I know all of them that almost made it too. And um

I also speak to NFL rookie camps and

explain to the young guys that NFL stands for not for long.

They have the average NFL career is 3.8 years and they think they're rich. Okay.

So, there's only one thing dumber than a

country music artist who's getting ready to lose everything because of bad financial advice or a new NFL star that's getting ready to lose everything.

And that's your fellow doctors giving you financial advice.

They are the world's worst with money.

35 years I've been doing this, I am constantly amazed at how the typical MD

is absolutely stupid with money. It

blows my mind. Now, there's exceptions.

There's exceptions. So, that's rule number one. Don't listen to these guys that have advice. Now, rule number two, uh you're very smart to ask advice and to learn things from several different sources.

And you use that wonderful brain God has given you cuz dumb people don't get this far in medical school. Um even though I just made fun of them for their financial stuff, but they're not dumb. Okay? Um but the you don't get that far.

And so, use that brain of yours to learn. Do not put money in stuff you don't understand and keep asking a thousand questions like the one you just asked for the next 10 years and you will become very very wealthy. So you are on the right track in the multitude of counsel there is safety the Bible says and so you keep gathering and learning and learning and don't do everything Dave Ramsey says you go learn about it for yourself.

did a great job becoming very wealthy very quickly um one of the things we coached them to do is to avoid what we

call doc itis when you come out of med school. So you have a um you're in the

top 1% of the population in emotional

maturity. One measure of emotional maturity is the ability to delay pleasure. You have while all of your friends from high school have been out playing beer pong, you've been going to class and reading books and for for a decade longer than they have to get to where you are. And so you've been holding your breath much longer than the typical person walking around listening to this conversation right now.

You've been delaying pleasure to get to a greater good. So you know how to accept pain to get to a greater good. You know how to pay a price to win. Otherwise, you wouldn't be where you are.

You don't graduate med school unless you get that concept from a psychological emotional standpoint.

>> Yes. It's a huge compliment.

>> Life doesn't necessarily have that which sometimes can create a clash. But I I I I agree. Yes, I understand that.

>> Yeah. So when you get out, the typical doc has been holding their breath for a decade longer than everybody else. And when they exhale, it looks like this. A new house, an investment account, and a BMW.

But and the student loans are just sitting there looking at them because they've been waiting so long to enjoy this income that the first thing they do is go enjoy it. And I'm going to beg you to do one thing. And that's continue to hold your breath for 18 more months after you get out and get your you pass your bars, you take the big job, you take the signing bonus, and you clear the 200k as fast as you possibly can.

keep living like a broke resident for a short period of time and clear the debt cuz then you've got $200 to $800,000 a

year or whatever your income is going to be for the rest of your life with no monkey on your back and you can go you can become wealthy so quickly. But if you kick the can down the road on this 200k like those docs are suggesting, you're going to be in debt the rest of your life and you're going to suck at money and you're going to struggle. So, I would live like a resident, like you were broke, and clear this up as fast as you can.

>> And with your marriage income, brother, I would um invest not in Roth, not in

real estate. I would invest in you right now. Can you and your new wife, can you all get through the rest of this year and next year before you start getting paid? Can you get through the the tuition? Can you all cash flow that?

>> So, she makes she was making around 80k

as a registered nurse. Um and then we

were able to chip about 40,000 off.

>> Amazing. >> Yeah. So we got >> First goal is no more debt though.

>> First goal is no first goal first goal is no more debt.

>> Second goal is chip away at it.

>> So the problem was she went back to nurse practitioner school as well in January. >> Oh. >> So how much is she going to owe?

>> So she doesn't owe anything. Her father had a 529 for her. So we don't have any loans on her part. Excellent.

>> Excellent. Okay. >> You guys are going to be making 600 grand. >> Yeah. Y'all are going to be doing well.

>> This is so great.

>> Please pay off the debt as fast as you can. As fast as you can. >> No investments, no purchases. Live like broke college students till all the debt is cleared. >> 18 more months. Dude, >> both of you pass your bars. Don't suffer from docitis.

[Music]

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[Music]

Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? If you've

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Not in all states.

>> All right. Today's question comes from Felix in Pennsylvania. Felix writes, "I'm a I am a millennial and multiple families that I know who have children are selling their houses to live in RVs because they want to get out of debt.

They are basically homeless. What is going on with my generation?"

I don't think we can cover that in this podcast. We don't have enough time. I know debt is to be avoided, but is this trend healthy or is it g is is gazelle

intensity going too far?

It's a good question.

>> I don't think that's gazelle intensity.

I think that is um gazelle intensity is being very intense and sacrificing to get to a a future

goal goal. Um

I've done this show for 35 years. I've never told someone to sell their home and live in an RV.

>> I think that's a part of our the the hack virus that we live in as a culture.

>> Yeah. But that's not you and I. I mean it's not Ramsay advice and Ramsey advice is gazelle intensity. So I invented that phrase. So no one used that phrase before me, right? >> So that's um but is this is this uh a a

segment of a

generation that feels hopeless and stuck

and so they resort to extreme measures that are over the pale to try to get unstuck. Yeah, that would be true.

>> Yeah. or people have bought way too much house, way too much car, and they're just hitting control altdelete on their life. Or they're they grew up playing video games and they're just hitting reset on the Nintendo and starting over.

But yeah, I I I I think it's one of those um not an eitheror question here.

>> It's not the right move, >> right? >> Agreed. >> But getting out of debt is very important. >> Yeah. Now, selling your home, moving into an apartment, that might work.

>> Absolutely. >> I've done that. >> I sold my house and moved into a dorm for crying out loud. Yeah, we've been there. I've been there. >> I But I, you know, I always answer questions the way I would answer them, the way, you know, what would I do if I was in the shoes and there's never a moment in my life that I would live in an RV.

Um, because I want my wife to live with me and she wouldn't live there. So, um,

it's not it's not something it's not a dream of ours at all. It's more like a nightmare. And, uh, we would be like Cousin Eddie. And so, um, no, we don't

we don't need to do that. The Ramsies don't. So, I don't tell other people they need to do it. Uh, I have had people do some wild things. I remember about gosh, it's it's a long time ago, a couple decades ago, a guy in uh in Birmingham sold his home and um he

called me up and told me he bought a trailer and I'm like, "Oh god, that why'd you buy something going down in value?" He goes, "Dave, paid $1,000 for it. >> You moved into a $1,000 mobile home.

You might be a redneck if my god, son.

Really?" And he's like, "Yeah." And he was making like serious money. And he goes, "But in two years, I'm going to pay cash for a house, and that's the price we're going to pay." And we're willing to do that. I'm like, "Okay, you're willing to do something I'm not willing to do." >> So I I can I can admire you for that, but I can't make that the program.

>> Sure. >> It's not what I teach. >> Yes. >> And so, uh, and he did he saved up like 300,000 bucks or something in the first in two years and went bought a house for cash. >> It's amazing. >> And, uh, but I I don't I don't see you moving Sheila into a single wide. Nope.

Nope. >> So, um here here's the thing. When he asks a question, um what's going on with my generation? There is a challenge. You

can call it resilience. You can be whatever discipline over time, doing a hard thing

with repetition, whether it's diet, whether it is working on relationships, whether it is getting out of debt. Um I would say there is a generic allergy in our culture to discomfort over 24 to 36

months. People don't mind doing something painful right this second and

um but but they don't want to stick to a

hard thing over time and we've been told you don't have to and actually we're a little sliver of history where there is some hacks around some stuff and so

everyone's looking for a way to do the craziest thing as painfree as possible

um and I so I think if you ask me that question your culture doesn't want to live within their means and and take what that means which is okay. We can't live in Manhattan doing this edit editor job that we saw on Instagram. We're going to have to live in Kansas or in Nebraska where we can afford to live and do a job that maybe isn't our quote unquote passion job. Or if you found yourself way way in debt to sell the

cars and put two kids in in car seats in a Corolla, which is uncomfortable, but it's doable, and take three years to

work with intensity, focus intensity over time and be uncomfortable for that long. That to me is the biggest allergy I think we have culturally.

>> Yeah. I remember distinctly

uh Millie Ramsey driving a um Chevy when

she's 19 years old. >> Mhm. >> Driving a Chevy 2, which is like the

first version of a Chevet kind of thing.

Um it had a two doors. It had a small little four-cylinder in it. Gas was $12 12 cents a gallon. And uh you could get to the top of the road above the gas station and run out of gas and coast down to the gas station. And we did.

>> Yeah. >> And uh I would say, "Mom, when are we getting an air conditioner for the car?" And she said, "We have a 240 air conditioner. Roll down two windows. We're going 40." Uh and so that they paid a price.

>> That's right. >> That generation paid a price to uh live.

They lived like that for a long time before they saw prosperity.

>> Right. Um, and then I saw that and so

but you know I I was telling somebody the other day they were asking me about Gen Z's because we've got so many Gen Z's here at Ramsey and millennials. I I would say out of our 1100 those two generations represent probably 700 people maybe maybe 600 some something like that. The vast majority of the people work in this building fall in that. And I think they're the two best generations I've run into in a long time for wealth building and for a lot of things.

And the reason is is they grew up with a magic wand in their hand.

anything's possible, >> right? >> And so that is a wonderful trait of this generation. What they don't have is zero

patience, >> right? Or >> when you push a button, crap shows up on your porch that day.

>> That day. >> I mean, you know, you didn't have to walk uphill both ways in the snow to go buy some toilet paper. It shows up on your porch, you know, and so there's no patience. I'm not going to wait for anything. I'm not going to struggle for anything. I want it right now. It's a microwave, not a crockpot. Don't talk to me about cooking something over the whole weekend. You don't cook stuff overnight. You cook it and we eat it right now. >> Right. And uh if they have a fallacy,

it's that and it relates to this question. >> Yes. Exactly. And so I I would tell you yes, get out of debt. And I Well, I think with when it comes to pushing a button, I think the friction between what I want and what I can get is is

been so intentionally dissolved. Yep.

that it is untethered us from reality.

That water comes from somewhere. That cow came from some farm somewhere.

>> It's just magic. >> It's magic. And if the longer you live in magic land, um, the more divorced from reality you get. And that's what companies want, right? They don't want you tethered to reality. >> I'm going to hold an $1,100 magic wand in my hand and criti criticize capitalism. >> I'm going to give one to I'm going to give it an 11,000 I mean $1,100 computer

to a six-year-old, right? Cuz you quote unquote need one. It's ma. It's madness.

But we're untethered from reality.

>> Yeah. Right. But it and it's it is there's good parts to it. Obviously, >> there's amazing parts to it. >> I think the the possibility thinking to

quote a guy from three generations ago, Dr. Robert Schuler, right? Possibility thinking, this generation thinks anything's possible. And when you're sitting in meetings with them dreaming up the next thing to do in business, that's about as positive a trade as you can have rather than some sourfaced boomer sitting in there going, "Well, it won't work. Can't be done. That'll never

work. Like Eeyore is in the meeting with you. >> It's a weird juosition of yes, we can do that, but I need work life balance, right? It's like, >> but I want to work from home. >> It's like the boomer is like that ain't going to work and I'm going to spend the next 80 years trying to tinker it away until it finally does work, right? >> I'm going to keep messing with this and keep messing with this and keep messing with this. Perseverance.

>> So, the allergy is like discipline over time. Perseverance. it it's going to suck for a long period of time and we're going to be stunned at how much we got done and how strong we are at the end of this thing. >> Yeah. Start it with the possibility thinking and then stir in a little patience. Just stir in some discipline and perseverance and you got a real These two generations are going to be the best generations that we ever seen on the planet.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show is my co-host today. The phone number is 888255225.

Mike's in St. Louis. Hey Mike, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh just wanted to ask uh is it a good idea to sell our house in order to get out of our consumer debt and fast forward the baby steps?

>> Okay. Um how much consumer debt do you have? >> Uh about 36,000 24 credit card, 12,000

in a car.

>> Okay. And um what's your household

income, sir?

uh household income right now. I just uh picked up another job, but currently I'd say our household income is about 4,000

or400 after taxes right now, but that should bump by about $3,000 here in the

next few months.

>> So, you're going to be making $7,000 a month in the next few months.

>> Uh I'm sorry, I'm being a little u

exaggerative, I guess.

So, let's let's let's back that down to

$6,400, $6,500 a month.

>> Okay. So, you be making $6,000 a month.

How much is your house payment?

>> Uh 1,200.

>> Okay. Right. Do you hate your house?

>> No, I don't hate it. It's very small. So, we do not hate it. No.

>> Okay. All right. No, you should not sell your house.

Your house is not the problem and it's not the solution. Okay. So, you make $6,000 a month. You have a $1,200 house

payment. At some point, you'll make six.

You don't today. I understand. But we're talking about a couple months out, right? Okay. 1,200. So, so that leaves me, you know, $4,500 to buy food and

reduce debt.

>> Okay.

>> You owe 36,000.

So, uh, if you put $2,000 a month on the

debt, you're out in 18 months.

If you put $3,000 a month, you're out in

one year.

So somewhere between one year and 18

months, depending on whether your 6,000 or your 7,000 is correct, one of those two. But somewhere between 18 one year and 18 months, you should be out of debt, then no, you don't sell your house for that reason. Instead, you live on beans and rice, rice and beans for one year to 18 months. Don't go out to eat.

Don't go on vacation. Roll up your sleeves. the two of you sit down and make your budget scream. Make your broke friends think you've joined a cult.

Get really, really serious about leaning into this debt and chop up the credit cards tonight. Light a candle and have a plastic surgery ceremony and um then let's just tear into these

cards and this debt. You guys have not been living on a plan and you've just increased your income substantially in the last year or so. And that's concluded by this next raise, right?

>> Uh, correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> here's the way I like to think of it, dude. If if there was a a marathon in your town, you could take an Uber to the last mile

and run the last mile. They'll give you a ribbon. They will um congratulate you

and everybody will cheer for you as you crossed the finish line. You could do that and you'd still have crossed that finish line. If you train for that thing

and you run that thing and you get all the blisters, all the pain, all the all

the stuff that comes with running it, when you cross that finish line, a you're a different person. Y'all will be a different married couple together. And you're going to be way stronger, way better shape than the person who just took the Uber to the last mile. And so selling your house right now is a hack.

And it might clear it up, but y'all will still be y'all. And so the chances y'all fall back into something is 100%. And so

I love the idea that y'all going to scratch and claw for a year, 18 months, and the the the sweetness of crossing that finish line will be such a different feeling and you'll have a different level of strength than if you just got dropped off. >> And the two of you locking arms to set a goal and attack this goal with a vengeance is huge for a young marriage.

And the deeper you cut, the faster you

get out. The more you work, the more you

make, the faster you get out. And so just look at this and say, "How much work can I do? How little can I spend?"

And look at your spouse and go, "How much work can we do? How little can we spend?" And then we'll be out that much faster. And John's right. You'll never look at a credit card the same after this. You know, it's kind of like once you get food poisoning on something, you never want to eat it again. >> I eat that thing again. Yep.

>> Ever. Like 40 years later, it still turns your stomach. You know, it's like I am never the you're just smelling it.

It's just it's the same. That's the way I feel about debt. And once you fight through this, you'll feel that way about it. John's right.

So, no, you mathematically, relationally, psychologically, spiritually do not need to sell your house. Nothing in this call says you need to sell your house. And if you needed to, I'd tell you cuz I love you and I want you to win. And uh I think you're going to win.

And I just I I can hear it's funny, John, doing this all these years. I can hear in their voice sometimes that how that they're getting ready to do it. >> Yeah. They're done.

>> This guy's He's got that thing in his voice like, "I'm going to I'm I'm I've had it." >> Yeah. >> So he's had it so bad. He want to sell his house. >> I'll sell everything.

Yeah. >> I'll do whatever. Whatever.

Mhm. >> The great Les Brown, the great motivator back in the Zig Ziggler days, used to do a whole talk on that. He was like, "When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired, >> you know, and and you finally look around, you say, "I've had it." That's

when you're about to change your life.

And that you can hear that in people's voice and their sentence structure and their tone when they're talking to us.

And uh so many years of being able to just listen to them and not see their body language, but hear it in their voice. He's uh he's got that thing. I think I I predict Mike and his sweet wife are going to be multi-millionaires and it started today. >> Today, day one.

>> So, it started three days ago when they started talking about this and we gave it a little boost today. One of the two, something like that. >> But, um yeah, when you're willing to do whatever, there is nothing that can stop you. >> Yeah.

what is the hardest way I can do

something great or do something well versus what I think I've spent the last 20 years. What's the easiest way I can get through this thing? the the neuroscience keeps coming back that when your body doesn't want to do a thing and you go do that thing anyway it the cascade of benefits is so beyond the accomplishment of that thing and at the same time we live in a culture where Dave I was looking up I was trying to find a part for the mower Hank and I were working on a mower and a riding mower that I got and right when we got it all fixed up the belt broke I just opened chat GBT and said what is the belt product number for this and it gave it to me there's no friction at call anywhere for anything anymore.

And it's like, do you want to order it here?

Now I'm getting pissed. I'm just >> Right. Here's the thing. Like I like the

idea of sitting down with my son and going to Tractor Supply and looking through it and it it took takes so much longer. And man, when that thing took off across the yard, watching him cheer, watching me cheer, like it we did a thing together. It was hard. And the benefits were beyond just replacing that belt.

And so I I like the idea of taking, okay, 18 18 months, I bet we can do it in 13 and we're gonna figure this thing out and you will have a different kind of marriage on the other side of this beyond just being out of debt. It's everything all at once. And it's amazing. >> Yeah.

When people do that stuff, they sell the knife collection. >> They sell everything.

>> They It's weird. >> And they don't talk bad about each other at the water cooler anymore. It just changes everything. >> Yeah. They they like each other cuz we're working together. Don't you mess with my wife. Don't you mess with my husband. All of a sudden, we're a team now. We're locked.

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Abby is with us in Virginia. Hey Abby, what's up? >> Hi. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

So, I am an applying medical student this year and my family has an exchange

student and my mother informed me that

they're going to be using my 529 to pay

for our exchange students education here in America and I'm worried about how much debt I'm going to be collecting from medical school.

>> Okay. So, there's a 529 account that you thought you were going to get to use for school. How much is in it?

>> Yes, sir. >> That I don't know. My mom has never disclosed it to me.

>> Um, but she's the one who put in majority of the money and my father didn't really put in much uh of his income into it

because he was in the army.

>> Mhm. Okay.

I currently am receiving benefits from the VA to go to a university.

>> Okay. And that's for undergrad or for med school? >> Undergraduate. So it'll stop at the end of the four years that I just did.

>> All right. And what um and then you're

going to go to med school to become an MD?

>> Yes, sir. That's that's the hope.

>> When will you finish your four years?

Um, I'll finish uh this year in 2026.

>> Okay. But as far as you know, there's enough for the exchange students and exchange student and your medical. You

don't know how much is in there?

>> I don't know how much is in there. Um, my mother said ballpark. It's over 400k,

but she doesn't know. I She knows, but she won't just tell me the actual number itself. >> Okay. All right. So, I uh get to learn

something on this show. I've been doing this show for 30 years and I get to learn something brutally ever so often when I screw up an answer on the air and about 3 weeks ago I screwed up an answer on a 529 and I've gotten trashed for

screwing up the answer. So I've thoroughly learned about 529s what I didn't know in the last 3 weeks or four or so. So um here's the correct answer

because and I screwed it up before and I'm not going to this time. Uh you don't own the account, Abby. She does. She can do with it what she wants to do with it.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Uh, so would I take out loans for medical school?

>> Wait a minute. I don't know on what planet she can't help an exchange student and still have enough left for you to go to medical school out of $400,000.

>> Yeah. >> Why are you whining about this?

>> Yeah. There's like a bigger conversation to be had.

>> Why Why is it that your mother Why are you and your mother at odds?

uh because my mother uh believes that I should take out loans for medical school like she did um for her graduate

program. >> So she doesn't want to she doesn't want to use the 529 for you to go to medical school regardless of the exchange student. >> Yes, sir. But um she then told me she's going to use it for the exchange student instead of for me. And that's like where

some of the tension lies?

>> Not really. The tension just is that she doesn't want to give it to you for med school. Period.

>> Okay. >> She did pour salt in the wound and say, "But I am going to give it to this other kid." >> That's not even re, you know, it's not even family member. >> It's not you. Yeah. >> I'm not even sure she can do that, by the way, without getting penalized. But I that I don't know the answer to that and I'm not going to answer something else. I don't know the answer to.

>> So, but the uh Yeah, maybe she can. I

I've never read that you can give it to an exchange student. Um only siblings and people in the family. You could give it to your She could give it to your husband. You give it to your wife. You can give it to your uh parents. You could give it to your kids now. But I've never heard exchange student. Maybe you can though. Maybe you can. Uh it doesn't matter though. That's not the core issue. The core issue she's not going to give it to you anyway.

>> Yeah, I understand. That's fair.

>> Yeah. Why? What's her reasoning? It's like sounds like an old like frat bro like I got hazed so you get hazed. like

she should be the one saying how ruthless it was trying to pay back student loans and be a new mom and all that kind of stuff. So, I have almost a

half a million dollars in an account. I'm going to I'm going to take care of you.

>> So, um I have paid for all of my medical school applications. I'm paying for all of my flights to and from interviews at other are

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Wow.

>> So, I am paying for everything. I pay for my rent. Um I Yeah, I do pretty much

everything. I have a job.

>> Okay. There's there's something deeper here. What What's the What's the tension with you and your mom?

>> Um this exchange student has lived with us for four years trying to get an associates degree and has not yet completed it. >> I I know. Let's take the exchange. The exchange student is a symptom. They're not the problem. >> The problem is your mother and you.

>> Yeah. What is going on?

>> I honestly don't know. I appreciate my mom. Really? You don't know? Really?

>> I I genuinely don't know. I have a feeling it's because she went through this whole process without any help from her parents and expects me to do the same. >> Well, I can tell you I went through some things all by myself without my parents help. And I'm making dang sure that my son doesn't do that.

>> And there's some things that I had to do that were really hard that I'm making sure he does because it because it's appropriate. But, >> okay. Okay. Number one, let's let's sab let's set this aside. The exchange student is not causing you to go to med

school with student loans. Your mother is. She has the money to do both.

>> Okay? So, take the exchange student out of the conversation completely.

And then, um, if I were in your shoes,

you're not going to like this, but I simply wouldn't go to med school. I don't think you can afford to go. She's not willing to help you. And I'm not going to tell you to go $250,000 in debt to go be an MD.

not in the current medical climate. Um, I think it's financial suicide. I know it's your dream and it's your agame and it's what you've been wanting to do your whole life and Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And you're going to do it no matter what I say. I know that. But I'm not going to leave this call without telling you the truth. And the truth is you should not do this.

And then you should call your mom up and say, "Based on the fact I've got to go into student loan debt, I've decided not to go." >> Yeah. I I I agree with Dave.

>> What in the world is wrong? >> Yeah. What did I do? Um, I had this amazing opportunity ahead of me. Clearly, >> did you go at her after the divorce with your dad and and she never got over the fact that you got at, you know, you took his side or I mean, what happened?

>> Yeah. Pretty gnarly. >> Or this woman's just wounded from something else and she's taking out on her kid. I don't know.

But this is a game of cat and mouse. I don't want to be in. >> I would opt out of the game. Yeah, that's exactly right.

>> Yeah, I'd step out. >> And Dave's right. even even at the at the at the highest case scenario, she could put a hundred grand towards this other student's tuition and still have $300,000 for your >> and you can still go to school. >> So, it's not about her.

>> Choose a school you can afford. If you've got $250,000 of casually in there, choose a school that's 250 or don't go, >> right?

>> It it's um and no one asks the doctor where they went to school ever.

>> Yeah. If she's making you pay for flights, if she's got 400k and she's not

paying for tuition your senior year, helping you with rent, there's other there's something underneath all of this that is borderline pathological. Or mom just thinks she's toughening up her daughter. And um then you have to live in that mathematical reality. I simply don't have the money to go to med school right now.

And I'm like Dave, I know too many >> medical doctors whose kids are going to school and they're still paying on their student loans. And so I just I can't in good faith tell you to do that right now. >> And John has a PhD in higher education, so he does know actually what this >> It's tough, man. It's tough tough tough tough tough.

>> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> I hate it for you.

or it's like I'm going to I'm going to box my kid around the ears because I know the world's tough and they're going to get boxed around the ears a lot. And what you end up doing is beating your kid down so much before they even get into the world. And there's something about teaching your kids strength and discipline and resilience. And then there's something about kicking your kids knees out from under them before they leave the house. And so if Yeah. To

this mother, congratulations. You win.

you're going to have 400 grand in an account and you're have what sounds like

a pretty hardworking amazing young woman who's going to have her dreams diverted.

Either she's going to go into catastrophic debt um trying to prove herself or she's going to have to go do something else robbing a generation of potentially a great young doctor um because you want to be right. So congratulations on being right and altering everything here.

>> Yeah, that's just But you're a tough old brag. You proved it. You showed her. Congratulations. You showed her. >> Give me a break.

Congratul [Music]

[Applause]

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in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Jonathan and Sashia are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi. >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you all live? >> Savannah, Georgia. >> Fun. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> 373,346.

>> Way to go. How long did that take?

>> 16 months. >> Good for you. Whoa. And your range of in income during that time? started out 90,000 and ended up 530,000.

>> Okay, that's bizarre.

>> Yes. >> Who who who got a job? What in the world? >> So that's me. >> That would be you. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, so I'm guessing you must have come out of med school, huh?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so you went from making nothing to making 400.

>> Yes. >> Or something. >> Yes, sir. >> Way to go. What specialization are you in? >> So OBGYn. >> Oh, wow. Good for you.

>> Thank you. That's the most fun kind of doctor. Babies, babies, babies.

>> Yes. >> It's the only time people are happy to be in the hospital. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Very cool. Good for you. That's fun. So 400k from nothing. So 373 is not a house. That was med school. >> All student loans. >> Wow. And you just said we're making we're making we're going to pretend like we're not making any money. We're going to pay off the loans in 16 months.

>> That's exactly what we did, Dave.

>> So you heard us telling somebody in an earlier segment. >> I said yes. That was the seed that was planted for our story for sure.

>> Okay. Tell us about this adventure.

>> So the journey really started in 2019 whenever I graduated medical school staring at six figures of debt and it

was smothering. It was hard to breathe.

So we went through residency not making much. Our goal then was just let's not make that number larger. Right. So we

lived well beneath our means. We had twins. Yes. So, we went through all of that. Um, medical her like it was her fault. Then she got pregnant. She had twins.

>> Um, we have a teen. So, we got her through school and we were like, let's just keep this number steady. Um, and then when I graduated training, it was like, let's live well below our means, live like a resident, literally, and pay everything onto this debt. >> You did just exactly like we described.

That's incredible. So, when did you get connected to the Ramsay stuff? So, I heard about you in medical school um just from students talking about it. We were all wondering how are we going to pay off these loans?

And some people really wanted loan forgiveness and some people talked about Dave Ramsey and I said, "Well, the loan forgiveness doesn't sound very good. So, let me look into that." And so, you were simmering for a long time before we could press play. >> Wow. Okay.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Yes. Yes. make it. >> Residency was tough cuz we wanted to but we just didn't have the means. >> Yeah. You didn't have enough margin then. >> But even even having the courage and the grit to hold the line and say, "Okay,

we've dug this big of a hole." That's a tough order with what, three kids?

>> Yes. >> Um and you in residency, which means you're working 900 hours a week.

>> Yes. >> And >> you're holding down everything.

>> Yes, sir. >> Still does. >> To just say we're holding the line.

That's really tough. That's like doing bench press and instead of like pushing it all the way up, it's just holding it.

That's hard, man. That's really tough.

>> Yes, absolutely. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah. Thank you. Amazing. >> The great news is is now Woohoo.

>> Yes. >> Wow. You're going to be able to do amazing stuff. >> Yes. >> Do you have a mortgage? >> We >> just bought a house. >> We just bought it last month.

>> Good. Right after this. Okay. And now turn around and get it paid off. Huh. Exactly. All right. What do you want it?

uh 5.85. Okay. It's it's a

>> got our first mortgage payment. >> So, what is your uh what is your plan on it? >> So, we're on a 15-year fix. Shout out to Amy Joe with Church Hill Mortgage. She was amazing. But our plan is to get that paid off hopefully in five years.

>> Yeah. Good. That's perfect. >> And the fact that y'all didn't go out and buy a $7 million home.

>> It was tempting. >> I bet it was. I bet they said you qualify for any home you want.

>> Yes, we qualify for 2 million.

>> It was crazy. And we didn't. We said, "No, that we we don't need a $2 million house." >> Amazing. >> Well, you will someday, >> but not. >> Yeah. >> Won't be longing to go, y'all.

>> Thank you. >> Way to go. I'm so proud. How's it feel?

>> It feels good. >> The the excitement part for me was every time we made that payment, >> it's like you make it. Let's keep going.

Let's keep going. Let's keep going. And that was the that was >> that's once we made the last payment, it was like this is it. We're done. Yes, >> we are done with this. >> How'd that feel when you hit that last button? >> It was amazing. It was amazing.

>> How much dancing around the living room was there? That a lot.

>> Champagne cork going off. Yeah.

>> Yes, for sure. >> That's great. Submit. No more student loans. Done, baby.

>> That's it. >> Mic drop. >> Okay. How How many of your classmates that you graduated with >> do you think are debtree? Debtree right now? >> 16 months away. >> Minimum. >> Zero. Zero. >> 1%. >> Zero. I I work in a large practice and

nobody who got out of residency. It was a primary goal for them and it was hard.

You mentioned Doc Idis. You know, I had a lot of colleagues, a lot of classmates with brand new cars, new homes, vacationing, and we're just, you know, thrift shopping and living below our means and pushing through. But, but now they're like, man, you did it right. You know, so I'm inspiring them even now hopefully to try to make those changes and >> hopefully this story will help those people in medical school or graduating residents see, you know, it can be done.

It's hard. It's so hard, but it can be done. >> 373,000 in 16 months.

>> Yes. >> That's just not messing around at all.

>> That's pretty study. That's pretty right there. >> Jonathan, what was it like keeping everything duct taped and bailing wired together over those many years?

>> It It was hard. It was hard. Um cuz I

you know we had the old older daughter and then the the two twins. It was it

was a lot to keep up with.

>> Um I I would probably say the good thing for me is I like everything to be on a schedule. So once everything was on a schedule, it made a little bit easier.

But what the hardest thing is just not being able to see her. And I' I've got to give a shout out to her.

>> She worked extremely extremely hard.

>> I mean I can't I can't say enough. you know, it she she dug and dug and dug.

There was a lot of nights.

We you know, we didn't see each other, didn't talk. We may have text a little bit, but I've got to give her a lot of credit on that. >> And um you know, I knew that there was it was hard, but I I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. I said, I know it's coming.

I know it's coming. Just, >> you know, we just got to dig in there and just keep going. I can't wait for a few years from now when that older teenager comes home and sees the clothes these young twins are wearing and says, "Hey, wait a minute." >> Oh, yes. >> Like, what about me?

>> But she's seen the grit and she's, you know, she's in college. We second week this week. >> Oh, you changed her life. >> Change her life. Yes. Able to cash flow

her college and >> but she has no excuses. She watched her mom >> and her dad just be gangsters. She has no she she has no excuses, man. None.

>> But but not from words. She got to watch you guys do it, which is the most powerful lesson a parent can give. It's amazing. >> And you're not going to put her in student loan debt to teach her a lesson either. >> No. No,

>> man. >> So she can learn grit.

So cool. >> We've had those calls today. It's crazy.

Absolutely crazy. >> Wow. So proud of y'all. >> Thank you. >> How does it feel? It feels amazing, you

know, to be able to just work, earn money, and you keep it all.

You know, you put it towards things that are going to build your future. A home, our first home ever. Um, we're able to now start and save for retirement.

>> How long y'all been married?

>> Seven years. >> Seven years. >> Yeah. So, what what's the You bought the house. That's a good That's a good first thing to do. What's the next The next second thing you're going to do just to celebrate and enjoy some of this.

>> I want a truck. Yes. >> There you go. >> He needs a truck. >> I need a truck.

>> Dad, a truck. You do need a truck. What are we going to get? What are we gonna get? >> I want a uh Denali. Chevrolet or GMC Denali. >> Yeah, that's a nice truck. >> Funny on the way on the drive up here.

My battery went dead on the side of the road. >> No way. It did. >> Yeah. I replaced it in the in the parking lot of AutoZone, >> Jasper, Tennessee. >> All right, let's get on it. We're about to We're about to run out of time. Let's count them down.

$500,000 a year and I'm changing the battery in the Auto Zone. I like it. I like it. Count it. All right. Uh $373,000 paid off at 16 months. Make a 90 to 530. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

11.

Get the man of Denali.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 16:9.

Nine. In their hearts, humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Milton Friedman said, "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years, there'd be a shortage of sand."

>> Yep, that'll work. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every month this week, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars worth of margin using every dollar.

You get out of debt, you build wealth. And you can ask us any question during the live Q&A. You're going to love that.

how to build your budget out and how to become wealthy and how to get out of debt so that you can become wealthy.

Ramseyolutions.com.

Sign up for free.

ramiesolutions.comwebinar.

Be sure and check that out. Nick is in Knoxville. Hi, Nick. How are you?

>> Hey, Mr. Ramsey, thanks for having me today. I really appreciate it. And doctor, you as well. >> Thank you. >> Um, I got a um I'm very fortunate uh in my

life. Um, I inherited a pretty good

chunk of money uh from my grandfather, my granny and pop. Um, their estate when they passed away. Uh, my wife and I have no children. Uh we're very conservative.

We live conservatively. We live below our means. Um we already are doubling up

on our payments on our home. Uh we currently own owe about 212,000 on it.

And the money that I have is I've

completed phase one. Basically, it happened in 2022 when my grandfather passed away. He was with a longtime financial adviser and I had to kind of

break the ties with him because it was all invested in like one chunk of the company that he worked for. So I had to diversify it which was very difficult.

So I went with a good family friend of ours with um a large Primica financial

institution which you're familiar with Mr. Ramsey and it was all diversified.

Um, and so I've kind of got over that

now and I'm like, do I pay the home off?

>> How much how much is in the account?

>> Uh, right now 1.639.

Um, and not all that is my grandparents.

I've saved up a whole lot um during my career. >> Why would you not pay off your house before now? Why would you not just do that automatically? It's a >> it's an irrelevant amount of money if you got a 100 a million six.

>> Yes, sir. Um, so the reason being is cuz my, you know, a financial adviser friend of mine and then the financial adviser through Prim America also was like, well, you're making money on this money and you're fixed at a two two and a half% interest rate um with your mortgage and you can make 10%.

>> So based on that, these idiots would tell you to go buy a borrow a million dollars on your house because you can make a spread on it.

>> Well, that's why I'm calling you today. >> No, I mean that's what these idiots are telling you. It's the same dad gum stupid thing.

>> Yeah, >> but they don't make any money when you pay off your mortgage. They only make money when you buy stock from or mutual funds from them. Their commission is not based on your debt reduction. It's based on how much you keep with them under management.

>> Yeah. Yes, sir. So, that's

>> Yeah. They're ripping you off. >> It pisses me off. >> Yeah. >> And then they drop my name to boot.

>> So, um the >> Yeah. Pay off your house today, man.

>> Yeah, pay it off today. >> And change financial advisors again

>> and get one get one that has some dad gum sense. >> Yeah, they're lying to you, brother.

>> Telling you to stay in debt >> when you got a million6 in your account and you only owe $200,000 on your mortgage. >> That's just as >> Yeah. Has nothing to do with Dave Ramsey. I can tell you that.

>> Go back. >> Talk my name and then give that advice.

Just ask, "What would it be like to sit at a table with your grandfather >> who's who's seen a few things?" >> What would your grandpa do?

>> He'd say, "If you >> kicking your butt more than I am, >> to own your house outright. Do it right now. Don't make these other men rich off gambling off of your u off your spread." >> Yeah. Nope. Nope. >> Dave, that makes me so mad.

I don't It makes me irrationally angry.

I'm glad you got angry for both of us, but geez. >> I got I got two dips. one bad advice and one drop in my name to give the bad advice. So, I double dipped on the anger. But yeah, that No, no, no, no,

no, no. Yeah. And Nick, another thing I do, number one, I use common sense when I'm applying these things. And I've never had anyone in 40 years of doing this show, it's approaching 40 now, uh, tell me that I gave them bad advice when I told them to pay off their house. I've never had a single person send me hate mail that said, "I paid off my house and I hate you. You're awful." And if you

pay off your house and you hate it, you can go get you a new mortgage. They'll give you another one. So if you hate being debtree, I've never had that experience ever. Ever.

>> And all the data tells us among the millionaires that we've studied, not broke financial people selling you mutual funds, but real millionaires,

that that the paid off house is one of the key elements of becoming a multi-millionaire because it sets you free. You don't have anything to think about anymore. I promise you the grass feels different under your feet when you walk out in the backyard with no shoes on and no mortgage.

My grass, shut up. Cuz there's risk

involved. We've done detailed research and 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. So yeah, go to ramsysolutions.com and click on Smartves Veester Pro and find a Ramsey Smart Veester Pro in your area that will give you good advice instead of that clown show you're with. Yeah, man.

All right, Katie's in New Hampshire. Hey Katie, what's up?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so my husband and I are first-time home buyers. Um, and we've been paying extra to the mortgage. Um, but we've been seeing how much interest we've been paying versus the amount that's actually going to the principal. And after talking to my in-laws, they highly recommended uh HELOC as they said that it's just interest payments, which is not a lot compared to the interest that we're paying now. Um >> your your in-laws don't know how to do the math. >> Yeah. They don't have a calculator.

>> It's not how it works. Okay. You have you have you have you have a convent you have a conventional mortgage, right?

>> Yeah, we do. >> Okay. Your your conventional mortgage is calculated exactly like a simple interest heliloc.

Exactly.

Okay. You're not prepaying interest on the front end. You're paying interest based on the current interest rate of your mortgage and the outstanding balance as of this month. When you pay a

principal balance, you slide forward in the amaturization schedule to the So, if you put $10,000 extra on the principal balance, it's not next month on the AM schedule. It's $10,000 worth of principal reduction forward because that that amount of interest is charged on that $10,000 less balance. So the amate

amortization schedule is calculated as if it were perfectly done simple interest. And an a heliloc is simple interest as well. So your in-laws are under the mistaken impression. It's it's a fallacy that's believed out there.

mythology that because you mainly what you pay on the front end of a mortgage is interest that you're prepaying the interest on the front end of the mortgage. You're not. You're paying the exact amount of interest due. The reason it's so high is it's the highest your balance is ever going to be.

As your balance goes down, the amount that goes to interest goes down and the amount that goes to principal goes up because you have a fixed payment all the way through. Okay? That's how the actual math works. So, bless your in-laws heart, honey.

They don't don't take financial advice from them.

>> Give you a good husband and let's just call it. >> Yeah. They made made a good husband and he's a good boy and we'll move on. She makes a good casserole, but we're not taking math from her. I'm just

>> Okay. Okay. Dave, help me with this. I

know we're running out of time. Yeah. >> And this segment's about to be brought by brought to you by Preparation H because hemorrhoids are getting a little bit out of control with how frustrated I'm getting. teach me about why that would even even under the this scenario you you drew their mistaken understanding. Why would taking out a loan against your house somehow be better? >> Well, it's if if you were prepaying the

interest somehow and you could avoid that >> by paying down the principal, then borrowing money at simple interest to do that would mathematically make sense.

>> But there's no such thing. It's not how it works. And so >> would the bank come up with a loan and just cross their fingers and hope that nobody figured out that sophisticated response? >> Well, there's been more than one hack on the internet over the 30 years I've been doing the 40 years I've been doing this. So there you go. Here we go. I'll always be in business, John. You always got a job. >> We are always going to have work to do.

>> There's always work to do between financial planners and in-laws. >> And in-laws. >> There we go. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 147. Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money | December 15, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

That's how you join the conversation.

Jesse is kicking us off in Minneapolis.

Jesse, how can we help today?

Hi. Say, I am calling because I have a

freshman daughter new to college and my

husband and I recently found out that she opened a credit card. Um, she knows

we're against that. My husband tossed

around the idea of kind of giving her an

ultimatum, excuse me, an ultimatum that if she doesn't close it, um, we will not

provide her the funds from her 529. And I'm just curious your thoughts on that.

We haven't talked to her about that yet, but um, we're just trying to figure out

how to navigate it.

>> How did you find out about the credit card?

Um, well, when she was home on Thanksgiving break, she goes to a college fairly close to home. Um, I saw it in her wallet.

>> How do you see it in a wallet without opening said wallet?

>> She has like a little It's like a thing attached to her lanyard. She has her student ID in it and then her debit card. And then I >> And then you have She doesn't know that you know at this point.

>> She does know cuz I asked her about it.

>> Okay. Did she get defensive? Was she like, "Well, here's why I did this."

>> Not really. I mean, she didn't get defensive. She was kind of open at first, but then didn't really want to tell me what the balance was on it.

>> Oh. >> Well, was there an agreement? Hey, we're going to pay for school, but you have to go completely debtree. You're not going to go into debt. You're not going to open a credit card. What was the conversation like?

Well, I don't feel like we ever had a specific conversation, but as she turned 18, I do recall like seeing, you know,

credit card offers come in the mail and

just told her kind of like, "Please

don't ever open one. Please don't open one." I mean, I just she knows we're against it. >> So, I I I just want to call out George.

The joy of this show is sometimes people call and and they're like, "I found cocaine in my son's room and and then I found my daughter has three husbands and then occasionally it's like >> she has the Delta Sky Miles card.

>> I found a Discover card. It's so great."

Um, okay. So, and George, jump in here.

Like my Jesse, my rule of thumb is always a I expect my kids to

explore and press boundaries and see if they hold.

Okay, so that's it's a it's a feature, not a bug.

>> The second thing is is there's tons of

things that I like and I regularly badmouth to my son like country music.

He loves, by the way, I love it. I just like to harass him. How short um young teenager shorts are. I think shorts should go past the knee to midshin like they did in the late 90s. He disagreed, right? So, he also knows that me and my

wife um don't borrow money.

That's number one. So, I expect him to roll his eyes to say, "Oh, dad's into that, but I'm not. And mom and dad have a reason for X, Y, or Z, and I'm becoming he's he's growing into a late teenager, right? But your daughter's 18.

She's she's a young adult, right? She's turning into her own woman. And so I would say, as someone who's worked with college students my whole career, hearing you say, "I don't like something," is far different than you sitting down and saying, "Here is an expectation that we have. If you want to accept this, here's the here's the bargain that you're going to make with us." >> Mhm.

>> But you getting upset because y'all have this firm belief about a thing. So take take debt off the table. That's too easy. This the Ramsay show.

Let's say you told her, "You can drive this car, but in order to drive this car, you have to go to this church." Then she has a choice to make. Do I want this car or do I want this?

feels to me awfully costic

>> to circle back and say, "Hey, we did not give you a firm boundary or a firm um a

firm set of responsibilities if you're going to take our money. You know how we feel about things. That's fine. That goes into a bucket of a whole bunch of stuff mom and dad like and don't like.

But this is if you're going to take our money, here's what our expectations are.

You need to make these grades. You got to go to class this much. If you take out debt, then this is then you are choosing to not accept our money.

>> And so I think if I'm going to sit on a

on a jury here, I'm going to side with 18-year-old and say, I know mom and dad hate this. Mom and dad hate a bunch of stuff. They weren't. And then to pull out my college funding feels costic without sitting down and saying, "Hey, we weren't clear. This is that big of a deal to us." And that's our fault. We weren't super clear on our expectations for for you.

>> Um, but if you pull college fund, you take the 529, and by the way, even your language, it's y'all's money. It's y'all's account, but you called it your

her 529 her college fund. And that's the

language he's going to hear is, "Mom and dad got mad and threw a temper tantrum at a thing I did and they took away all of my college fund as a way to force me as a young adult to do something. She's going to either a do it out of spite or

she's going to not do it and you're going to cash out your relationship with your kid." >> Yeah. >> You get what I'm saying? So, it's your money. You can do whatever you want to with this. But man, I think it's the right honorable thing is to sit down and say, "We messed this up on the front end. We gave you this huge blessing

called college, paying for your college,

and we didn't set our expectations for

you choosing to accept this money or not." And so, we're going to we're going to reset that.

>> Okay? >> If you think it's worth losing, I mean, if I mean, that feels like >> play it out. I'm a future thinking person.

She's going to probably go into crippling student loan debt now and we're going to lose the relationship. I'm like, this is going to harm you guys more than it's going to harm her. I mean, she'll be suffering financially, but you guys are going to go, "Why did we was it worth it to teach her the lesson?" Instead, I would dig in and say, "Hey, why'd you open the card?

Like, what's behind that? What were you hoping to accomplish?" Because if it's trying to save up, we can help you do that. If you're trying to get a credit score, we can show you why you don't need that for this stage of your life.

And I think getting to the root of it and owning it like John said, "Hey, we didn't do a good job setting this up." There was no contract in place that said you lose your 529 if you open a credit card. So, it does feel costic and a little bit reactive. So, I would try to just >> calm yourselves emotionally, have the conversation with her, and then go from there. But, I I personally wouldn't pull it.

And this is the Ramsay guy. If my daughter opened a credit card, I would be heartbroken. Absolutely.

pull two decades of savings away from her as punishment? I don't think I could do that. I would rather see her stay debtree on the student loan side and figure out this whole credit card debacle separately. >> And here's here's um ju just sitting with college student parents over the years. Um I would do everything I could

to a be clear and b continue to be a

place my daughter will call when not if but when something happens whatever that

something is. a bad grade, a bad event,

a scary thing. Shame eats secrets for

breakfast. And so, the fact that when you said, "What's the balance on that card?" And she said, "I'm not going to tell you." That means that that 18-year-old didn't feel safe enough to tell her mom. So, this might be a great place for you to go out to take her to breakfast one day and say, "I haven't fully told you my experience with debt.

Here's what happened. Here's what I did when I was 22. Here's how long it took us to pay it off. And this is why it's such a big deal. We love you. We love you." Um, and then if y'all want to say you want this money, you do this, you can do that.

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John is in Boston up next. What's going on, John?

Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, big fan of you guys. Um, I just had a quick question in regards to, you know, how should I approach my my student loans? Um, I I

have $94,000 in student loans and um, I

make a salary of 75,000 a year.

>> So, just wanted your advice on how to approach that. >> Let me ask you this. As a guy who's how long have you been working in local government? >> I've been working local government. It'll be uh six years in March.

>> Very cool. So, when you see what happens at the local level and at the state level and at the federal level.

>> Yeah.

Is there anything about your experience,

both like your lived experience and what you see going on

that makes you think in any shape, form or fashion, you can predict what any member of any government is going to do in four years?

>> Um I I don't think there's Yeah. No, I don't I can't I can't predict that.

>> If you did, I would connect you with our friends at BetterHel because you'd need a therapist. like yeah it it's all all I

know is my lived experiences was working as a dean of students at a at a law school and I had some of the most amazing young men and women who had incredible minds and they chose to not go into private law because they wanted to serve the least of these in their communities and they chose public service and they chose public service because of the do this for 10 years and we'll pay off your loans and the amount of them that got denied over and over over and over again made me so sour on this deal.

And it comes down to who do you trust?

some promise just to get themselves elected or reelected.

>> Do you have any other debt, John?

>> No, that that's just about it. The student loans is >> How have you actually signed up for the program yet? Like how far into it are you? So, so that's the thing. I'm I'm

currently in the M's program. So, while I have been working for the state government, I'll be graduating, God willing, in um uh May of 2026. So, I

wouldn't start until May of 2026.

>> Okay. And then it's 10 years from that.

>> It's 10 years from that. Yes. Yes. So, um hopefully >> So, how old are you now?

>> I'm currently 28. >> All right. So, let's say like by your 40th birthday, maybe this shakes out.

>> Or another way to say that, three presidential elections from now.

Yeah. >> And here here's the thing people don't think about, John, because they get stareyed that their 100 grand is going to disappear. Number one, your balance will likely grow until that number gets forgiven. And you're going to be making payments that entire time for 10 years.

So, you need to add up what that's actually costing you. And by the way, the amount that's forgiven is taxable.

>> So, you're going to owe taxes on top of that while the balloon has grown, while you've made payments for a decade. And let's hope that it all shakes out perfectly. >> And so, that's my fear. I'm not like angry against the program.

Like I love to see someone working for their community, you know, h have a benefit like that. I just don't think it's worth it. >> I love that idea. >> Yeah.

And so the question is, >> could I like put a little ump into it and be done in two years and have the next eight be free, or do I want this living in my head rent free for a decade going, "Oh gosh, I hope it works out.

I'm making that payment again. I hope it works out." >> And that's my heart for this. I'm I'm rooting I just believe in John more than PSLF.

>> I hear that. Yeah, that's I mean again I've been using the the the loan simulation calculator that my loan provider has and you know it's not the most it might not be the most accurate but it's the closest thing I have using that calculator and I'm you know thinking about maybe throwing you know two grand a month at my loans and you know the calculator states that you know you'll be paid off in you know four and a half five years if you do that >> and that's if you do nothing differently that's if your income doesn't go up you don't try to you know ratchet the expenses down and I just think when you when you have that goal to become debtree all of a sudden you go, I'm willing to make more.

I'm willing to spend less. Versus kind of sitting on the sidelines hoping that an exterior force changes your life. That's the part that worries me cuz then you that's how you operate through life is you go, "Well, it's not up to me.

If you're really good at your job, you know what? You're going to have tons of opportunities.

You're going to meet somebody.

>> They're going to want to move across the country to be by their parents when you have twins accidentally. And part of the

calculation will not be freedom and not what do we want to do and what cool opportunities do we have in another local government in the state government in another state or in a new for-profit entity. It will be but I got to stay here for four more years. And so there's a never this never gets taken into the calculation is a decade of sleepless nights because you are owned by somebody else >> because now you need that job.

>> I have to have that job. I'm already this far into it. So I'm going to not do something that could be a good opportunity, not do something that's going to be best for me and my family.

not go whatever because I'm stuck in

this thing because they have a hundred

grand um set of golden handcuffs around my wrist.

>> Mhm. >> And I just don't I just saw my students deal with it. And I I I don't have George, you may have it. I don't have any of the data. When I left, it was like 98 or something some crazy percentage were getting denied. >> Yeah. >> And so I don't it >> it might be 96 now. Like it's slowly >> it it might be better now. And I let me reiterate as a taxpayer, I love the idea

that my tax dollars go to getting some of the best and brightest minds and hardest working people into serving people in local communities. I love that idea, >> right? >> But I don't get to make that choice. And so that that's I mean >> or to put it this way, I went and paid my student loans off as fast as I could.

>> And I I was working at universities, was a nonprofit. I qualified for the same program. I worked as hard as I could and got those stupid things done. So, it's not just me. I got some skin in the game, too. I did that because I just didn't want to be beholden to whatever person in office holding that over whatever thing they wanted to do 10 years from now.

>> That's a fair point. I I I appreciate that perspective and that is something I don't think I ever took into consideration just the future landscape of it. So, >> yeah. And can I throw one more thing at you while you're on the phone?

If you don't have the cash to pay for a master's program, I would tell you postpone it.

>> Hold off because that's yet another set

of shackles.

>> I hate to disappoint you that I'm I'll be finishing that masters program in um in uh May of uh next year. So So it

>> you're not disappointing me. I I don't I don't owe I don't owe student loans anymore. But I do know I had six figures of student loans and I didn't sleep for years. It made me insane.

I had to say no to opportunities. I had to do different things, live in a different house, drive a different car because of that choice I made. So even if you had to submit a letter of I need to take a semester off and so I can earn some more money and they may want you as a student and they're going to give you a scholarship or they say great, we'll pick you up next semester. Whatever you need to do, I just want you to know you don't you're not stuck in a track where you have no options.

>> Right. >> What's the masters in?

>> The masters in uh urban planning.

>> Okay. And that's the exact field you're in. Does it come with a pay bump immediately?

>> Um I'm not in the in the current field at the moment. However, uh the jobs that I'm looking at uh do come with a significant pay bump um once, you know, obviously once I'm I'm done with the program and and and get selected for the for the position that I apply to. Yeah. >> So, let's say by next fall, could you be making six figures?

>> Uh definitely low uh six figures. Um

there are, but most likely probably um mid to high 90s >> cuz I'm just wondering, you got two grand you can throw at the debt. Now what if you had another two grand because of the pay bump and you kept living how you're living and now we're debtree in 2 years.

>> Yeah. I mean again that is something I'm I'm taking into consideration if I do my my intent is you know within the next few years or few months to get a significant pay rise. So, or or what if

you have six or seven years of working in local government and you have this graduate degree in urban planning and a construction firm hires you to help them navigate government contracts and they're going to pay you a4 million dollars. Right? So, not attaching yourself to this government program 10 years from now allows you to keep all of your options open.

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>> Hi guys. How are you doing?

>> We're good. How are you?

>> Okay. I I I would say I'm I'm okay.

>> What's going on?

>> So, uh we recently had our daughter, our

19year-old old daughter.

and she moved out of the house with her boyfriend. She dropped out of school and

in one of the many well not one but a few of the many um heated conversations

or I would say arguments that we would have um we will be very clear about what

would be removed if she were to go out

of the house.

Um and among those it was um removing or

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Now she was born with a uh heart

condition. She's been having a few

surgeries over the years. And

um now that open enrollment is going on,

I told her that she needed to

find a way to be responsible for her own

health insurance.

The last conversation I had with her and I told her, you know, you need to look into this. It's almost it's almost a 15 and open enrollment.

It's going to come to an end and we need to see what she can do with insurance.

She get mad at me. Um, she said, "Why

are you doing this? You know, you can't take me out of insurance." And I know I can.

>> What are you What are you trying to accomplish by taking her off taking away her health insurance?

So, she thinks that living with her boyfriend at her boyfriend's house is just being She pretty much went out of the house to

be free of responsibility.

>> Is it to be free of responsibility or to be free of you?

>> Well, I guess free of everything cuz being at home, she had to bring me good grace. She had to be at home at the third time.

>> Okay.

you know. >> So, I don't know that it's free of responsibility. It sounds like she wants to because she's going to have rent and she's going to have to do stuff at this new place, right?

>> Well, that's my thing. I don't think she's being responsible over anything.

>> So, do you think cutting her off health insurance will make her more responsible somehow, especially with a heart condition that you know she's going to need surgery for?

>> Cuz here's what it sounds like. It sounds like you're you're less even more than punishing.

It sounds like you are trying to control what an adult does.

>> Mhm. >> Right.

Well, I in in in mind, but on the other

hand, I want her to know that

being an adult has a lot with it.

>> I I got that. I got that. >> If you were like funding her drug addiction, I'd say, "Yeah, no, this is enabling. Let's cut her off." But access to medical care, I don't think is directly connected to this relationship decision she made. We can agree on that,

>> right? >> Oh, yeah. >> Cuz I read the prodigal son. I don't know that the dad kicked his son off healthcare when he left the house with the inheritance. I assume he kept him on the plan, the family plan, and went, "All right, hopefully he comes back one day. I can control him." And lo and behold, he came back. And so, I just think there's a piece of this that you might need to to let go and then let her

test these boundaries. Let her figure this out for herself a little bit. But I don't think the healthcare should be a condition.

>> It just it it feels Tell me if I'm wrong. My guess is this conversation escalated.

>> You're going to have to get your own cell phone. You're going to have to pay for your own car insurance. You're going to have to pay for your own gas. And she's like, "Fine, fine, fine."

>> And then you went with the nuclear option, which is I know you've got a heart problem. I'm going to pull that funding off the table, too.

And now it's hard to walk that back. Is that fair or did you go come out of the gate with that?

>> Not really because we uh since she was

young, we were teaching her on how to be responsible in many ways.

>> I know. I know. But what you're telling me is you taught her all of these things >> and she still doesn't have that message.

>> Do you get what I'm saying? I mean my mom my mom heart it's telling me that I should keep covering her health insurance but at the same time

I want her to know that I don't have all

of this within >> I got you. So I all I can tell you is in

this situation what I would do in my house and I have a young daughter

if my daughter had a medical condition and she was making a what I thought was a boneheaded idiotic 19-year-old decision.

I'm not going to put her life on the line to prove a point. I will sit down

with her and say I love you. This door will always be open for you. you know what I think about the decision or decisions you're making is and I can't contribute to that. So, you're going to be on your own with your car insurance. You're going to be on your own with yourself. Like, I would put those things out there and I would always have it tethered with you can always come home.

This door is always open for you and I'll meet you in the driveway with my arms wide open.

And I would look at my daughter and say, "You've got me as your dad. You got me pinned up on this one because you know I'm not going to let you die on an operating table because you don't have any money.

>> Yeah. >> But I need you to hear me say my heart's broken. Not I'm going to keep controlling you and controlling you and send you off because she's 19 making a 19-year-old decision. And does she need to learn that adulthood has responsibilities? Of course she does. No question about it.

But I spent my whole career working with 19year-olds and they do 19-year-old things. And I'm not going to put my kid in a position, this is me personally, you do what you want and you are well entitled. Say you're off. You made a choice. You go do it. I'm just telling you in my house, I wouldn't I wouldn't put that on the block.

But that's just me.

>> I'd be very clear about my boundaries.

The question I want you to ask yourself is what is the ultimate goal?

>> I mean we we had this conversation with her already and she knows she can come back home whenever she feels like she

can be on herself like whenever she

needs us she can come home anytime.

>> But she also knows rules and restrictions may apply. Yes. But she also knows the home she would be coming to is so cruel that my mom would rather

me not have health insurance and prove a point,

>> right? And so what kind of home are we coming home to? Not a boundary home, not a rule-free home.

They're just they're just again, if you called and said, "I feel like cutting off the cutting off her college funding and cutting off her cell phone." If you've sat down and been clear, I'd be I'd support you. Go get it. It's your money. do what you want because of the precarious nature of this situation.

Let me put it this way. It feels like y'all are playing blackjack and you know you have an ace and I want to challenge you not to play blackjack with your kid.

>> Okay, >> but that's just me. George, what do you think? I I don't think her prefrontal cortex is is fully baked yet. So, it feels like a lot to put this on her.

And I I simply would right now it's opposing magnets and you're just driving her further and further away. I would try to flip that magnet around and go, how can I draw her in and show her that I'm truly a safe place for her and then I truly want the best for her. And that might be a year or two before she has to figure that out and the breakup happens and she goes, "Mom, I need a place to crash. I messed up.

I'm sorry." And maybe that's the thing you tell her is, "I love you enough that when this thing goes south, when it goes sideways, we'll be here. And I'm not going to when you walk in the door, you're not going to be met with a lecture. You're going to be met with open arms. We know how this ends and we'll be here.

my house, I wouldn't put my kids life on the line at 19 years old.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888255225.

Ezekiel's in DC up next. What's going on, man?

>> Good afternoon. Uh, how you guys doing today? >> I'm doing great. How can we help?

Um, so I'm owe over $50,000 worth of

debt. Uh, most of it is loans and you know, loans have monthly payments. Some for 330, some for 500, some for 200. So

mixing all the monthly bills with these loans, try to keep up with my credit and my everyday expenses, rent, food, and stuff like that is is kind of killing me. I'm really going in a circle. And my goal here is just to, you know, pay off my debt cuz I make a decent amount of money, but I'm not enjoying it because all my money mostly goes towards paying this debt. >> Yeah. You work for your lenders right now cuz every paycheck disappears to them.

>> Say that again. >> You You're basically working for your lenders right now. You're working to provide them a paycheck >> pretty much. >> So, how much do you make?

>> I make $38 an hour on one job. uh bring

home about uh about $4,400 a month and I

just got a second job making about uh $34 an hour and I'm bringing about $2,600 a month. So somewhere under

$7,000 a month >> is one full-time, one part-time. How are you juggling those? >> Yeah, one full um they're all 12hour

shift. So it's 31 12s at one job, the one paying 38, and it's 212s at the other job. It's It's not really good for my health. It's not really good for my health. That's another problem. So, I'm just doing five straight 12s a week.

>> What kind of work are you in? >> Monday through Friday. >> I'm a armed security guard.

>> Can I just say this? George is gonna Listen, you're at the right place. And George is going to walk you through a step by step how to do this. All right.

But can I just shout you out?

>> Like just guy to got manto man here.

Like do you have kids? You married?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. I just want to just shout you out.

Because the the word on the street is men don't know how to work and men are all lazy and they're just a bunch of bums and fil and on and on and on. And I

hear a guy that probably did exactly what he was told to do on everything.

You got to get a new car. You got to get this. You got to get this. And you're not afraid to go work and get after it.

And I I want to tell you, man, I applaud you. And George is going to give you a path to freedom. Is that cool?

>> Cool, man. I I got to say I really appreciate that. I worked my tail off.

>> I know you do, man. I can hear it. And >> that's what gives me hope that you're going to get out. >> This show is for guys just like you. I'm proud of you, man. Cuz you're not scared to put George going to give you a hard path. It's not going to be easy, but he's going to give you a path out of this mess. And I'm proud. I just want to say I'm proud of you, dude. It's awesome.

>> Appreciate it, man.

>> So, number one, Ezekiel, you need to focus on your four walls first before you pay anything. And that's your rent, your food, utilities, transportation.

You can cover all of that, right? With no problem.

>> Rent. I'm taking notes. Right.

>> Good. I love it. >> So, rent, utilities, >> transportation, >> food, transportation. Just cover the basics first before you pay any lender, before you do anything else.

>> You can throw insurance in there, too.

Make sure you're on time. You're on track for your insurance payments.

>> And you're bringing in $7,000 right now.

That's what I heard. That's your take-home pay, >> right? >> Are you doing any investing right now?

>> Not at all. I have a lot of ideas and a lot of dreams, but I have this this thought process that I have to clean my plate first. Amen. Clean my plate first.

>> Cuz I was going to tell you to stop investing cuz right now my thought was he might be doing a lot at once. He's trying to save some. He's trying to invest some. He's trying to pay off some debt. He's trying to live. And so you want to focus on debt payoff. Anything above and beyond those expenses we mentioned is focused on debt payoff. And right now you've got a bunch of debts, don't you? How many separate debts would you say you have?

I would have to say uh at least six. Um

I have this silly thing where I think

taking out more loans is going to help me take care of the loans that I have already. I don't >> That just makes you normal, man. That makes you normal. You ain't crazy. And >> when people get desperate, they'll go to Desperate Solutions. >> Yeah. You get sold that all day long. So you're not crazy. >> Yeah. And all the marketing is going to be like, "Oh, Zika, we can help you get out of debt. Take out this consolidation loan." Right.

>> So what are the debts? Like you you said there's a bunch of loans. What type of loans are they? Car loans, credit cards, personal loans.

>> I have uh one credit card for $3,300.

It's uh $86 a month. I have a personal

loan for 13,000.

That's $330. I have a car note that's almost paid off from where it starts.

It's down to about$7,000 from 2500 over 5 years, but it wants 465

a month. and and that's killing me with car insurance. So, I'm paying about $800 from for my car.

>> I have a another personal loan for $8,000 >> and um that's about 250 a month. So,

>> what are all these personal loans for?

>> All these personal loans literally just to keep me above ground and try to catch up with all the other loans and um uh damages to my car and uh >> But what what started this whole process? Cuz you make good money. So, what caused a guy making six figures to go, I can't pay the bills? Because it wasn't the these debts as it stands,

>> man. Um, just bad money management. I'm

really bad at at at managing money.

>> I've been trying to do this for so long.

Um, I had an idea to move somewhere in the state cheap, but decided to help out

some family members. So, I moved into a house where >> Yeah. >> I moved into a house where we're renting the house for $3,600 a month. And you're

paying the rent?

>> I'm not paying it all by myself, but I'm paying >> What's your portion? >> 15 I'm paying 1,500.

>> Okay. That's reasonable for a guy taking home seven grand. But do they expect you to pay all the light bill and all the water? Cuz you're the rich one now.

>> No, I'm literally just paying the 1,500, but I I came from a place where I was paying five and really doing well. Okay.

>> And and then I came here and now I'm paying >> Well, you weren't doing well. you were just able to shuffle stuff around on the Titanic a little bit more.

>> But 1,500 is not bad if you make the kind of money. >> Here's the hard truth. You're not in a position to help anybody right now. The weak can't help the weak.

And I hope and I know that once you're out of this mess, you're going to be a real generous guy cuz you have a heart to serve and a heart to help. And you do security for a living. And yet your life is so insecure right now. Your finances are out of control.

You see how that works? >> And you're not scared of hard work. So, put 2500 and you're done in three years.

>> And then you get exciting. What if I did three grand a month? Well, that's 36 grand a year. I'm done in 18 months.

Do you see how how this starts to roll? And then what will cause you to feel the progress and momentum is using the debt snowball method. And I'm going to gift you every dollar. It's our budgeting app.

It's really more than that now because it's going to coach you through this whole process. So, you're going to lay out all of your debts in the app and you're going to focus on the smallest balance. So, what's your next smallest debt?

>> I would say the smallest one would be u

credit card of $1,100. That would be the absolute smallest. >> Done. That one's done. Within the next 30 days, that 1,100 bucks is going to pass through your hands and you can throw it knock out the credit card debt, can't you?

>> Yes. >> Done. >> Great. So, that's one debt freed up. And remember, you freed up the payment on that. So now we can apply that to the next smallest debt. What's the next smallest one?

>> Uh the next smallest one, I have it all

written down here, would have to be um

uh something I left out. I left out uh I took uh $5,600 out for from my um 401k

as a loan. So that would be the second smallest one. >> Okay. And that one will get knocked out within what? 3 months. >> Be done by March on that one. Sweet.

>> And so now you can start to see the progress. you go, "Okay, I'm actually making progress instead of trying to not, you know, play whack-a-ole here with my debts, and every dollar will lay all this out very clearly for you. But here's the here's the fact of the matter. You're going to have to keep this income up for a little while longer, but I don't want you doing this.

I don't want you working, you know, 5 12 hour shifts for the next four years. We can agree on that, right?" >> Right. >> But could you do this for a year?

>> My lady is My lady does not like it at all. >> Oh, I bet. Well, she doesn't see you.

You're a ghost to her. And even when you are around, you're probably not super fun to be around right now. >> And you're going to have to tell her, "Hey, for 24 months, we can't go out to eat." >> Date night looks different. >> For 24 months, we're going to go on walks and hikes and free movies at the

local whatever because we I'm going to get a I'm going to be listen to this word. I'm going to be free.

>> We're going to be splitting a Costco hot dog 75 cents a piece. That's the life

you're going to live for a very short time, Ezekiel. so that the next 20, 30, 40 years of your life is truly free, is truly secure. So hang on the line.

Christian's going to pick up. We're going to gift you every dollar to help coach you through this. Exactly what we did on air. It's going to do that 24/7 in your pocket, giving you recommendations, a personalized plan to help you out of this mess. You call us back if we can help once more.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by best-selling author Dr. John Deloney and it's open phones at8825-55225.

Give us a call. We'll do our best to help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Kate is in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Kate?

>> Hey, how are y'all today? >> We're doing great. What's your question?

>> Good, good. I have a question about um

paying for potential funeral expenses for an aranged father.

>> Um so, we haven't really >> Is he still with us?

Yes, he is. Um he's 65 in in not great

health. >> Um so I would expect obviously sometime

in the future. Um but >> well even if he was in great health, you could expect sometime into the future, right? >> Yeah. You know, >> for all of us. >> It's it's coming for all of us.

>> Exactly. Exactly. Um I just like to get ahead of the of the curve before anything catches me by surprise. um he's

really not of the means to have pay for anything himself. Um won't have any kind of an estate or anything like that. Um my siblings won't really have any means

either. And so I feel like it's going to fall on me, but with not really having a

relationship more than an occasional phone call, that kind of thing. Um, I'm just kind of curious what my obligations are. And then also what I need to do cuz

I'm working through baby step two. Um, I've got about 20,000 more in debt to

go, but do I pause baby steps to throw a

little bit in savings or what what do I need to do? >> Do you struggle? And this is the pot asking the kettle here. Do you struggle with anxiety?

>> Of course. >> Yeah. So, you've created a future potential problem and you've dragged it back to today and you're trying to solve it today. >> Mhm. >> As one amazing young man at my church once said, this is a problem for future you right now.

>> Okay.

>> Like financially. Okay. Like the financial like if he drops dead tomorrow, god forbid I hope he doesn't.

If he does, then we'll solve that problem tomorrow. But right now, you're in the you're in your own emergency, which is I got to get this stuff paid off.

>> The second thing I would ask you is where does the word obligation come from?

Because that can be a legal question like who pays for the burial here for a guy that I don't want anything to do with, but I hear you asking more of a character, spiritual moral question.

>> Yeah, it's definitely more of a moral side. I I don't wish any ill will toward

him, but >> So ask yourself this question, and this is a haunting question.

>> Who do you want to be?

>> And you get to answer that however you want.

>> Okay? >> And what I mean by that is I want to be a person who even if somebody treats me like crap or whatever, I'm going to go do this. I'm gonna call this the next right thing, which is I'm gonna pay for as inexpensive of a burial as I can, but I'm going to show dignity and respect and I'm going to go on about my life. Or I want to be a person who holds people accountable to how they treated me and so you don't want anything to do with me.

I'm not going to have anything to do with you. Or I want to be a kind of person that lets them have it.

>> Okay. >> Okay.

And I wish it was more complicated than that. And I know it's heavy. >> Yeah. >> It's simple, but it's really hard, right?

>> If this funeral happened, who would show up?

there there might be a handful of people. >> Okay, so we can limit this. This isn't going to be a big thing. We can limit the cost of this. Keep it as simple as possible. And whoever signs the funeral agreement is going to be liable to pay.

And so I would try to get some agreement on that before that day comes so that it

doesn't add stress to the grief.

>> Or you can cremate him. I mean, there's there's any number of things paths you can take here.

>> Okay. I'm just I'm almost hesitant that if I bring it up now, then everything

would fall on me and there would be no cooperation from at all.

>> If you're asking that right now, then you know that's what's going to happen now, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years from now. You know that. >> Yeah. >> And so worrying about trying to solve that in the present is not a good use of your time or energy because you can't solve it. What's your timeline to get out of debt?

I should be out of debt in the next 12,

18 months. >> It's amazing. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> And then beyond that, you've got an emergency fund and I would start saving up knowing that there might be three, four, five grand on the line that I might need to pay to cover this expense if no one else chips in.

Or I'm going to be a person that's not going to cover other people's stuff. And so I'm going to go on about my life. But you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror long after he's gone.

Yeah. >> Right.

>> And in the grand scheme of life going, "Man, I hate that I spent three grand on or you go, you know what? I don't regret it. Yeah, it wasn't a fun thing to pay for. It didn't solve any family dysfunction, >> but I did the next right thing for me.

>> Exactly. And so either way, I would make peace with the decision and not roleplay

this in your head, letting it live rentree. That will just consume you >> because you have a bunch of imaginary conversations with people, don't you? Of course. >> Yeah. And then she said and then I said this and then you always get like the mic drop moment, right? >> And you might be right. It might play out exactly like that. >> But 99% chance. No way. It feels like I remember uh Bnee Brown said this and I loved it. She said, "We spend a lot of time dress rehearsing tragedy.

We spend a lot of time imagining what would happen if the worst case thing happens and how we're going to respond and how we're going to be the hero and how nobody's going to." And what that does is it serves as a Xanax to us dealing with the problems that we have in our life right this minute.

>> And it's just a way to distract yourself. It's like Tik Tok except in your own mind scrolling scrolling scrolling.

And so just knowing that rumination

never solves a problem.

And as a ruminator, I know that's easier said than done, right? I'm like, just don't eat the cookies. And I'm like, but I have to. Right. Right. So, I get that.

Um, but yeah, George is right. If if if

you're asking what we would do in our personal life, George, transparent, >> I would just save up and pay. >> I'd put three grand or five grand aside.

And I would say I want to be the kind of guy that buried his father >> and I want to be that guy. But that's just that's for me, right? And I don't know your >> It's not like, oh, I'm better than someone cuz I'm doing this. It's just this is the simplest route to get through this is for me just to deal with it versus getting angry at everyone in my life and saying why aren't they chipping in?

I knew they wouldn't chip in. Well, then you just drank the poison. Yeah.

So, you might decide it's easier for me to just suck it up and pay three grand than it is for me to make seven phone calls that are going to ruin my month.

>> Yeah. >> And then ruin nine Christmases from now.

Because I'm guessing you don't have a great relationship with many people in your family.

>> Not my biological family. No.

>> Okay. >> There tends to be a ripple effect there.

And I'm sorry you're dealing with that. And that's at the root of all of this is you're frustrated. You're sad.

>> You're you need to grieve the fact that you should have a relationship with your family. Like that's crazy to not be able

to have a healthy relationship with your biological family and yet that was taken away from you for things that were out of your control. Right.

Mhm. >> Yeah. Be heartbroken and then go.

>> This is just a reminder of that. >> Do the scary impossible right next thing. >> So if you're George and I would probably get through that 20,000 bucks as fast as we possibly could and we would save up an emergency fund for 3 to 6 months. I am an anxious guy so I like the six to seven month emergency fund.

And inside of that would be the money I needed to bury somebody that I'm estranged with but that I think is the next right thing to do. That's the path. >> And if it happens before you're debtree, just pause the debt snowball. Save up as much as you can as fast as you can and get through this.

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Megan is in Tulsa up next. How can we help today, Megan?

>> Hey. Um, all right. So, my husband and I

are um completely debtree except for our

house. Um, we still owe about 133,000

on this primary mortgage, but we have

purchased land and are planning to build

a new home. And um in discussions with

the lender, they have informed us that

um after we provided all of our documentation and all of that that um

and the cost breakdown for the build, they said that they were going to require us to take out a second mortgage

on our home to ensure that when we sold

this primary residence to move into our

new home that we would do a lumpsum buy

down or pay down on that new construction loan mortgage permanent mortgage. >> Okay. So, it's risk management on their side. They're trying to protect themselves. >> So, yes, which I understand that, but um

wondering is that an Yeah, I don't I have no interest in doing that. Um I'm trying to you know, >> is this the lender that you currently have a mortgage with? So, no, but but

they have looked at our finances and one of the things that they told us when when we first started having this conversation about this new loan, they said they would love our business um for our so my husband and I own our own business and when we provided our financials and how much we our income and what our business is doing. Um they

said that they wanted to court us to bring their our business over to them.

uh like our per like we use a different bank for our >> run your business through their bank.

>> Yes. And so part of that I was like well

that's flattering but I don't really care what a bank thinks. But um but then in this new conversation yesterday they said they want a second mortgage and they're going to require us to do banking with them. >> Walk away. Walk away.

>> Yeah. Walk away. Yeah. They're not the only >> dog in the fight here. Why don't you just shop around? >> Right. Or can you put pause on this?

Because my guess is they're saying this is risky on our part for some reason.

>> Well, here here's my real guess. My real guess is that y'all talked to a loan officer at some stature in that bank and they made you a bunch of promises because they get paid on how many accounts they open. And then when your loan went to loan committee, they said, "We think this small business is a risk.

We don't think these people have enough cash for this. We've had too many people

sell their house on a new build and they get their all the equity, but then they go go to Paris for two months with that money. Like whatever the thing is, right? >> And so I just want to let's pretend everybody's in good faith. The salesman was trying and the loan committee was

like, there's no way I'm I'm putting this through without a whole bunch of >> underwriting just got their, you know, their spidey senses. But at the end of the day, I'm not going to do business with somebody that is gonna force me to take out a a loan and like I'm just not gonna do that. >> They're trying to tell you, >> I mean, I understand mitigating their risk, but I feel like you're going to make money off of my but my money that I deposit with my business, but then it's not about that. It's it's about they're trying to do business at the expense of you and your husband's value set, and I'm not going to do that.

>> Right. Right. Well, is is my other question with that is is that an indication that we have over budgeted what we should be. >> That was what I was trying to get at.

>> That's my thought. >> Is if they're spooked by this, it tells me there's something with these numbers that gives them pause. So, that's what I want to ask you. Is the land fully paid off?

>> Yeah. So, yes, but like here's my here's my here's what why this was kind of like

a frustrating thing. You know, we have a lot of friends who have done this, right? Done the same thing. and um they have had to sell their current home and they like during the construction, you know, a lot of people like live in a rent house during while the home is being built um because they need that money, the equity that it is in their current home or they like, you know, put a camper on the land and live there or build a shop and live in the shop while the home is being built or, you know, all these different creative options.

equity that we weren't going to have to do that. So, >> it sounds like your impression was incorrect. You know what I mean?

>> Well, well, now I'm wondering like I guess I need to shop around what >> what's this new build going to cost?

>> So, our So, that's the other part. My husband is in the construction industry.

He's actually a construction owners rep.

He's done mostly commercial work, but he um so he does this for a living. So he is very kind of prides himself on um

coming in under budget, which is kind of unusual in the construction world. So he has conservatively estimated our build to be 750 with a 7% contingency.

And um so I'm wondering if we need to

just like nail down a more accurate less conservative and more just like real hard numbers for our >> that that does that doesn't matter. I mean they're going to they're going to come through and say well that's cool that y'all think that's what that's going to be but we're going to budget for a million. What matters to a bank is how much money are you asking them to loan you? >> How long are they out for it?

Because this construction process who knows how long it could take. things fall through all the time with these new builds. And so that there's just a lot more risk with construction loans. And that's why the terms are more stringent, higher rates, all of that until you convert it to a traditional loan.

>> And so that might mean, hey, we need a pause in this build. We need to stack up more cash. We need more equity in our home. I'm not sure what that is for you that would make a, you know, construction lender feel more comfortable with this scenario.

But I would shop around and uh you can always call our friends at Church Hill.

here's what we would do. Here's what our current, you know, rates are. And that'll at least give you a better picture of what you're dealing with versus this one lender that you talk to.

>> And can I tell you something crazy that it's not going to be apples to apples, but I think I might be close.

I have a PhD in counseling.

People from all over the planet seek and ask my opinion on what they should do next in their marriages and their mental health and whatever.

My wife does not.

She pays a therapist in Nashville that she sees. >> And why do I tell you that?

>> Um, your husband may do this for a living for other people.

It may be worth a handshake and a 5% deal to get another GC.

>> Yeah, we've talked about that. Yeah. and and and it may not be the the 10% that GC's normally do and he may owe somebody a favor and they can high five or whatever, but there's something about being so close to him trying to make his wife's dream home come true on the land and the chickens and the goats and all the stuff you'all have planned >> that um it's going to cloud the reality.

>> And so the greatest gift I can give my wife in our house is not to counsel her ever. Ever.

Actually, that's that's funny you say that because that was one of our conversations about a month ago was we either need to hire an employee for our business um or we need to hire a builder because we've just have these dreams and plans and we've had the we've had the blueprints and the ar you know the drawings ready and >> he he we just keep having so much business which is fantastic but he's um

concerned about having the time to build it. So actually he's the one coming to me saying >> I have a lot of peace about just hiring someone to do this. That is a man that rarely exists in the 21st century. Hug him. Don't ever let him go and hire somebody. >> That's called self-awareness and humility. We need more of that.

>> Oh, totally. He's He's all of that. Um I'm actually the cheapkate trying to save us a buck, trying to feel like I think we can do this. >> Listen, you have married Well, >> you're the right subcontractor. >> It's worth the 10%. What What was like what's going to be your taxable income for the year from this business for 2025?

So last year it was around uh 3.95 and

this year we're looking to do about 420.

>> Incredible. That top line or is that take-home?

>> Uh that's well that's top that's topline

but we have a very low overhead business. I mean we basically use gas and um computer software stuff.

>> Yeah. But y'all are depreciating out all of your trucks and your computers and all your equipment, right? No, I mean, well, yeah, we have two laptops and um >> What what what would you what did you pay taxes on last year? The amount?

>> Uh 395.

>> Nice. >> Okay. They'd give you a million dollar. >> What's your current house worth?

>> 350. >> Okay. So, you have owe >> a decent amount of equity here, but this money I feel like is newer to you guys.

And so, therefore, the banks are still like, "Hey, there's not like you don't have a half million dollars in equity."

So to go 750 is a big number.

>> We only owe we only owe 133 left on our

primary and our plan was to just pay this off. >> Yeah. But >> while we were building, >> but but if you're if you're going with to to a meet with a bank and your husband's a surgeon and you're a surgeon, they're going to say, "Cool. We see a projection here." If y'all are a small business that does construction, you may do 400 topline one year and 75 topline next year.

Cuz that's more like a farming. It's like great years, tough years, great years, tough years. They're going to be possibly more conservative conservative about what they loan you out. >> Yeah.

But I would call our friends at Church Hill Mortgage and uh get a third party opinion from them.

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Isaac is in Houston, Texas. Up next, one of John Deloney's favorite places. What's going on, Isaac? >> Htown. >> Uh, how you doing, guys? Um, yeah, I'm Isaac. I'm 20 years old. Uh, and I just

got engaged uh about two weeks ago.

>> Congratulations. Right on. Yeah. So I this is more of a

emotional spiritual question I guess than a financial one. But um so my my

parents they're they're divorced and and I think they're very smart people but uh

they're kind of against me getting

married and I like I like to you know

talk to them, take their advice on a lot of things but I just don't know about this one. They they kind of don't want me to get married with with the person I

am with. And it's not >> Yeah. What's at the root of this? Is it your age or is it the person that you were engaged to? They they don't see them as a long-term quality person >> or they just both went through hell during their divorce and they just are they don't want anyone to ever do that ever again. >> So, so it's my age and what Dr. John

just said, you know, it's it's um part

partly they think I'm too young and and partly because they've been through their own experiences. They think it's a riskier bet to get married this young to this person.

>> Yes. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> I am 20 years old. I turned 20 this October. >> Okay. And so tell me, man. Tell me and George, why do you want to get married? Why is this person the person you're going to be ride or die with for the rest of your life? >> Well, we we've been living together already for about uh 6 months. And I

know it goes against your guys' advice, but yeah, that's what we've been doing.

>> Yeah, but that's like six months that you didn't answer my question. And you just told me a thing you're doing. Why do you want this person to be your ride or die for the rest of your life till death do you part?

>> Well, she's just a great person. She takes care of me well. She's, you know, very, you know, even though we're not married, she's been acting like a like a really great wife and is just a person I see in my future. >> How long you guys been together?

>> Uh about two years. It's been a little over two years. >> And how old is she?

>> She's about to turn 21.

>> Okay. And do you guys have any you just got engaged? When do you plan on getting married? How long is this engagement going to be? >> Uh not too long. We wanted to get married before the end of the year, actually. >> What's the rush? >> What's the rush?

>> Uh not necessarily any rush. It's just we've already been together. Like we've been living together and we kind of wanted to already like, you know, be together and we kind of It seems to me

that we've already kind of been engaged but not really.

But >> so here here's here here's several things I'll throw at you. Okay. And I'm in the middle of working on

a multi-year project on this question.

Is marriage still worth it?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And um here's what I'll tell you.

The data is pretty clear. And I know there's some conversations about causal versus correlation and yada yada.

Couples who are in good or great

marriages, every facet of their life is better

>> financially, healthwise, emotionally,

their kids, kids who grow up in the home of married parents whose uh and they're actually broken the data down from married to cohabitating all of it.

Everything in your life, you'll have more sex. Everything in your life will be better. Mhm.

>> And if you are married not well or

poorly, every part of your life is worse. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, it's one of those things that I feel myself screaming from the rooftops, everyone needs to do this thing and do it well. And we have a culture that has sold us that the worst thing we can do is limit our options.

And I would say the freedom that most people are chasing when it comes to getting money, getting fame, getting seen, having quoteunquote a bunch of options is found in commitment, but only in commitment done well. Why am I telling you all that? Your parents lived experience is real.

>> Mhm. >> Their health was ripped apart. Their psychology was ripped apart. Their their money was ripped apart. They watched their kids get splintered up. Their experience is real. And so when they tell you you shouldn't do this thing because we tried it and it blew up our home, that's a real experience and I want to honor that.

>> And I want to tell you that I hope for your sake, for your kids' sake, for your wife's sake, for the world my kids are growing in end in up. I wish more people like you would have a mind towards being married. Okay. And figuring out how to

do this thing well. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> I will tell you this.

You have a very limited toolkit right

now. >> Mhm. >> And if you think being married is well, it just kind of feels that way and we've been 6 months, you are going to get smacked right in the nose by reality.

>> Mhm. >> If you go into this thing saying, "We're going to need help from every loving adult in our life on how to do this thing well, and I'm going to have to learn new skills. I'm going to have to learn how to say I'm sorry. I'm gonna understand that five years from now I'll be married to a totally different woman and she'll be married to a different man because we're going to grow. If you can go into it that way and seek intensive

premarital counseling to have conversations about budgets etc.

Then I would say if my 21 if my son was 21, he came home and said, "Dad, I met the person five years ago." I would have said, "Bro, don't do this. Wait till you're 25. Live a little." What I would change my tune now after look living it all looking at all the data. I would say this is the greatest most important decision you're going to make. I will support you every step of the way, but you have to go into it very humbly.

>> Okay. So, I think your parents are right >> and I want you to do this thing.

Mhm. >> You get what I'm saying? Both are true.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, tell me I I think it's I I would tell you just as a guy who just met you, I think this is too fast to try to cram us in before the beginning of the year.

>> Mhm. >> Only because you're telling me, well, it just feels like we've already been doing it, so we might as well. That's a terrible reason to enter into a lifelong till death do us part right at eye commitment. >> Yeah. What I'd like to add to that is I I was thinking about it already for a longer time. You know, even before we moved in together, but I was, you know,

I had I I've lived with my parents and

my whole life they've been telling me, you know, that marriage is a scary thing. So, I was scared of it for a long time. And and you know, I I just kept

listening to your guys' I know, but listen to me. Listen to me. Sorry.

Just because your dad was a boxer and he got knocked out and told you to be scared of boxing.

>> Mhm. >> Just because you suddenly think I'm not scared of boxing anymore. Does not mean you should get in the ring without a bunch of skills.

>> Okay. >> I would love to see you I'm glad that you're interested in getting in the fight. I need more men getting in the fight, but I also need more men to get in the in the fight with skills. I would much rather see you say, "I want to formally propose to you and we're going to get married in June and we're going to start premarital counseling January 2." >> Okay?

>> So that we're on the same money, on the same page with our money, with our values, with our whatever we begin having those hard conversations because here's what you're going to have to do.

Mhm. >> And that's going to be a challenge because when you open your when you get the first fight, when you get the first um lost job, you get the first car that breaks down in the middle of, you know, of of the beltway there in Houston, you're going to open your toolkit and the tools in there are going to be the ones your parents put in there by their marriage. >> Okay? >> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> So, Isaac, it's less about a specific age. It's about alignment on values.

know my values. I didn't know myself.

And so that's the part that we're encouraging you to dig into for yourself and for her to make sure that you're aligned on family, kids, in-laws, you

know, whatever it is, politics, how are we going to raise what are all the decisions and the filters we're going to use to do this? Because that's the part where it's going to bite you in the butt down the line to go, "Oops, she I just like the PB&J she made me. I never thought to ask about XYZ over here." And in the early stages of any relationship, man, it is just gumdrops and rainbows. I remember I didn't fight with my wife for like the first year and a half we were together and I was like, "This is a match." >> My wife and I barely made it two and a half weeks before we were like, "Yeah, we screwed this up." Like, so every couple's different.

are we aligned on politics, whatever. My wife and I aren't. We're not aligned. We we go to the same church, but we have different beliefs about stuff. And I think that's awesome. It took me 15 years to learn how to share um a home with somebody that we had the same values but we had different beliefs.

>> And so I want you to get in and you start learning some of those skills and go into this thing humbly. So yeah, I hope you get married, dude. I really hope you do. And I hope you go change your whole family tree.

And before you do that, I hope you get a bunch of skills along the way. Dan, a lot of premarital counseling. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University to help you with the money side. That's some of the best premarital counseling you can get when it comes to finances.

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Not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Marissa in Illinois. Marissa writes, "I'm a stay-at-home mom and love having that role in our home, but in our marriage, the root of all of our arguments and problems is money. I'll admit it. I like nice clothes, makeup, shoes, and purses.

I love going out and getting coffee. We own our home but want to make some renovations, and my spending has gotten in the way of making that a reality.

I've always been a spender and before I got married, my dad would put money in my account when I didn't have any. My husband would like to keep my personal expenses under Geez. My husband would

like me to keep my personal expenses under $2,500 a month. And I know it's doable, but why is this so hard for me?

Wow. I I see two things here. One is an

addiction, and the second is enabling from dad. And now she's putting that on the husband. this is your role now to put the money in my bank. >> Well, I don't see it as much as her she's saying like my husband's given me a reasonable allowance of $2,500.

>> He seems like he's very level. He's going, "Well, can you do it under 2500?" And she's like, "We'll see." >> Yeah, I I I think so. Um >> that's some people's entire budget. All of their expenses they fit under that.

>> Yeah. So, um Marissa, my tone my my my tune has changed on this the last few years.

I four years ago, if you'd asked me this question, I would have thought it very important to dig into the root of your spending addiction, the root of your why

you can't keep a budget, why um you are

struggling financially and you're having disagreements except you keep spending money on purses and shoes and things like that. I'm changing my tune on that.

I think if you want to make a behavior change like this, um, the best way right

now for you is to act your way into changing your life. What do I mean by that? Before you get an answer to quote unquote, "Why is this so hard for me?" Stop spending money. And what do I mean

by that? Get rid of your debit card.

Hide it. Put it in a safe. Give it to your husband. Tell him to take it to the to the office. But stop spending money.

And when you feel that discomfort, feel it. And have one or two things that you promise yourself, make a commitment that you're going to go do when you feel that discomfort. When you begin to say, I need to go buy some shoes. You don't.

You got all the shoes you need. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go call a friend. I'm going to have a set of actions that I go do because I'm finding people, George, who spend all of their time, why? Why? Why? I need to go see another therapist for five years. I need to go do another personality exam.

I need to go to another silent retreat and all that. All that stuff's good, but it's one year, two year, five years, seven years, and the same behaviors are just hanging around. And I'm becoming more and more convinced both through the data and just walking with people the last four or five years. The greatest gift you can give your body is the lived expense of A, I didn't spend any money last month and I didn't die.

B, I didn't spend any money the last six months. I say any money, you know what I I didn't buy any new shoes, any new purses, any new guns, any new whatever.

I've had to deal with the root of that issue and that's worth spending the money on for various things. So, um, if

you have a chemical addiction, obviously you got to go to rehab or whatever, but Marissa, I want you to put up some insanely high hurdles that make it borderline impossible for you to spend money right now. Have that level of discipline, >> which means deleting the apps off your phone, removing the card info.

the phone and get rid of the phone. Get a flip phone. I'm talking about being constantly. >> Yeah. I'm guessing a lot of this is happening while scrolling.

>> Yes. >> And so that's that could solve a whole lot of problems. >> Create um some rhythms and routines where you go hang out with other stay-at-home moms throughout the week so you're not just sitting at home in a box by yourself scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. But yeah, if it means getting a flip phone, get a flip phone.

And if you find yourself like, "Oh, if I don't have social media, I got no human or AI interaction at all." Great. then that's the tension's that doorway. Go into that tension and go find some friends. But um you have to put some serious hurdles in front of you so that it purifies what the real problem is.

It distills it down and now I got to go solve that.

would be my exper would be my guess.

>> There's a root cause of all this.

>> Another thing out there is going to make me upset. >> Like why another outfit? cuz my wife stays at home.

So, this is impressive enough that she's had can accomplish this. But the budget is going to be the key here cuz you guys clearly don't have one because you're saying, "Hey, my spending is stopping us from saving up for renovations." Well, the makeup money should not be renovation money. We need to separate all this out in a budget. You can download every dollar and make a line item for Marissa that says $2,000

Marissa fund money. Whatever. If you guys make 20 grand and that's how you want to spend your money, go for it. But then we need another line item for renovation syncing fund and we put $2,000 a month into that account. So there's >> I would say the first three months, make that $200 >> really for a cup of coffee, right? and

really challenge yourself on what is this drive that I have to fix this momentary feeling of I'm not enough or

I'm bored or I'm scared and it's I'm going to go buy something. Click buy, click, buy, click, buy, click. Um because she's she's already moved on before the shoes even arrive.

>> Oh yeah. >> Right. >> Because it's not about she didn't actually want that pair of shoes. It was a >> dope. Build up the build to build the build the build and then boom. >> If if a box doesn't show up at the door, I I can't feel anything that day.

>> Well, I don't even think this is about the box showing up. If I think it's about hitting the button, the ah >> all of it, the whole experience.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my goodness. >> Put some really high hurdles in front of yourself. >> Yeah. And for anyone working the baby steps who wants to hit their money goals, Every Dollar is the best tool to do it. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money to work the plan even faster. You can start Every Dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Danielle is in Vancouver up next. What's going on, Danielle? How can we help today?

Hi, I'm super nervous, but my question is, are we foolish to consider moving

provinces for what we would consider a good financial gain and freedom to do the things as a family? Now, >> that's a pretty good pitch.

>> Sounds awesome. What are we missing?

>> Okay, so my family is here. Uh, most of

them. And um so we would be leaving my

family and actually my husband's family um here for a province where we have

friends but no family. Um >> for some people that would be the greatest healthiest thing to do and for some people that would be a nightmare. So you have to ask yourself that.

>> Yes. And I feel like we're

my husband's good to go. It's me. I come

from a really big family and um we've

had >> How far away is >> my siblings are here? Um so at BC to Alberta. >> Okay. What's the like what's the driving distance?

>> Oh uh >> if you were to visit >> 10 to 12 hours. >> Okay. No that's how far it is from >> two or three times a year. >> Yeah.

And when we moved from my whole family and my wife's whole family live in Texas, all of them. And so when we moved across the country to Nashville, across the US to Nashville, we built into our life for this to work for us, we've got to have this many trips back a year and we have to save that amount of money, >> right?

that we would want we would want to do.

>> Okay. What's your question?

>> So we pull the trigger.

>> You've got to be a big kid on this one.

>> What are the implications here? I mean, are jobs, housing, like what's what what's gonna change? >> So, it's cheaper. So, job-wise, my husband's a nurse. Um, and I'm currently not working. Um, we just had a baby last year, but I'm currently not working, and I would not be able to do my job full-time. I'd have to drop down to casual or part-time.

>> Okay. Um, >> do you need the family support around your new baby?

>> Um, well, in order for me to work full-time, yes. or we would have to have a nanny.

>> Okay. Can I throw this at you?

>> Yeah. >> Anytime I'm faced between an eitheror decision, I always force myself to put three or four new options on the table just for fun.

>> Can I throw a third option for you?

>> Okay. >> What if y'all just made a 24-month agreement? We're going to try this. A 12-month agreement. He's a nurse. He could easily get a job back in the old province. Y'all could get another place back in the old province. You'd be fine.

>> You're making this into a forever move.

And that the weight of that decision is daunting. What if you just said, "All right, let's let's go do it for 12 months. Let's try that." >> That's just that's just a thought. >> It's reversible. It's not fatal. So, go for it. And if you hate it, you can always come back home. And so, I would sit down, make the budget, make sure the numbers make sense.

>> Every decision comes at a cost. You're going to lose some stuff. You're going to gain some stuff.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Dr.

John Deloney. The number to call is88255225

if you want to join the show. Kenna is in Denver up next. What's going on Kenna?

>> Hi there. I just have a question looking for some advice. Um, should I prioritize

going to school now if I ultimately want

to be a stay at home mom?

>> How old is How old are you now? What does now mean?

>> I am 24. I just got married a couple months ago. Congratulations. I do have a bachelor Thank you. Um, I do have a bachelor's degree already and I was planning on going to physician assistant school, but but now after just talking and the expense of that versus something

else like nursing is kind of where I'm going down with the route I'm going down now. >> So, let me ask you a crazy question. Can you afford nursing school right now?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I think so. >> Afford as in you could cash flow the whole thing without delaying or derailing other financial goals.

Yeah, that's it's

I guess that's kind of where I'm like stuck because my husband does have some student loan debt as well um from

undergraduate. He has about 40,000 because we have about 40,000. Um but I could go to nursing for about 20 um,000.

>> I would this is me and George may disagree so this is just me. I would do that. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. And what is the upside for you?

What got you thinking, man, I really want to go back to school, pursue this?

>> Yeah, just I always imagine myself doing

something more. I I wish I would have gotten a nursing degree before, but that's neither here nor there. Um I I

just want to do more. I'm a medical assistant now. I just want to be more involved with patient care. And of course, I do want to be a stay at home mom, but then eventually the kids are going to be gone and and that part of our life is going to be over in terms of them being in the house. Um,

>> just now is better than later.

>> I've spent my career working with some of the most amazing, brilliant women in

the world. >> Yeah. And I have been stunned by women who

I figured I would be working for or I was working for, right, or about to. And suddenly they're like, "No, dude. I had a baby. I'm out of here." And I'm like, "What? Really?" >> And I've been stunned by the people who

are lifelong dedicated. I'm stay at home mom, stay at home mom. And they're at home six months and they're like, I no, not for me.

>> Right. That's what I worry about for sure too because of course I don't know that life yet. >> And can I give you one other ugly like just reality just cuz you called me. Is that cool? >> Definitely. >> Um my wife and I had some very clear plans on having a family.

>> Mhm. >> And my son took three and a half years followed by miscarriage one, two, three, and then my daughter came.

>> Mhm. >> And so we had very clear plans. We got our doctorate degrees. We had our careers and then we were going to start doing this next thing. and it did not work on our timeline, >> right? I worry about that, too.

>> And I would love for you to do the next right thing for you right now in this season and keep your amazing options and plans open. And if you want to be a stay at home mom, you need to get your student loans paid off. You got to cash flow nursing school. You got to do that stuff in the right way so you can prepare for a life with one income because that's your values. And also at the same time be honest about it may not happen on our timeline,

>> right? >> Or it may happen tomorrow, right? Like but I don't want you to wake up in 10 years and say I've been waiting for this thing to happen.

>> Mhm. >> Right. >> Yeah. Totally. And I guess Yeah. That that >> waiting it's like you either wait to have a family or wait to go to school.

And that's that's kind of where I'm at.

Like >> what's your current total debt load right now?

Um, total debt load is 40,000. That's

all student loans. >> Is that including his though? >> Um, that is Yeah, that's only his. I

don't have any student loans. >> Okay. I'm just wondering,000.

>> You cleaned up your If you almost planned like, hey, I'm we want to plan to have a family in the next year or two. We're going to plan to just kind of get a clean slate financially. We're going to work on knocking out his debt. I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing versus going further, you know, in

the hole or trying to cash flow this while keeping the debt around. And then you get down the path and you go, "Okay, now I want to stay at home, but now we're too deep in this." So, I just don't want to get to a point where you're at this weird crossroads and >> you have to give one thing up for the other, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other

part to it is that we did get some wedding money and we are able to save my entire paycheck. We do have enough money

to pay off the loans cash right now.

>> Do it today. >> Um >> today. >> Okay. >> Because what you're calling about is I want options and becoming debtree faster is going to give you more options.

>> Okay. >> Not holding on to the money for when some random day comes. >> Not doing anything now. >> Cuz if you free up that debt, well, now we can cash flow and save up 20 grand to cover this program pretty quickly, couldn't we? >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. We Yeah, it would.

And then how long is the program?

>> Six months. Um it's 24 months.

>> Yeah, it' be it'd be two years. And um

this is one of those crazy like things that people don't think about.

If you have a nursing degree and you choose to stay home, you know who the greatest beneficiary of that degree in the world would be?

That new baby.

>> Right. You don't know drama until you

saw me see a rash for the first time and I WAS LIKE, "OH, THIS IS IT. RIGHT.

>> RIGHT. >> And I was the one calling my buddies who who are doctors and nurses in at in the middle of the night being like, "My kid," and they're like, "Oh, God, go to bed. You're an idiot." Right. >> Yeah. >> So, that's a skill set that won't be wasted if you use it for your friends and family or if you use it professionally. It's an amazing skill set to have, >> right?

>> Right. And it see it just seems I don't know. I'm convincing myself more and more every day that it's better over, you know, PA, you can make more money eventually, but the debt load is so huge

and I just don't think it's right for where we're at right now.

>> I love that thinking. >> And there's it's not like you can't go pursue this two years from now. It's not going to disappear as an option. >> Yeah. >> And I think you'll have a lot more clarity two years from now. So there's nothing wrong with delaying it. I'm I'm sort of team let's delay it if you're gungho on, hey, we want to try to have a family now, >> right? And I have a lived experience of let's do a have a like George had a baby.

I don't want to be weird. They got pregnant fast. We did not. Right. And so my plan just didn't wasn't in the cards for a while.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And also you can get a year you can get a semester of nursing school in that you've paid for in cash and then take a leave of absence to have a baby. That's no big deal.

>> That's true. I hadn't thought about that either. >> So here's the the the crux of it.

Whether you delay it, whether you do it now, I would get out of debt completely and only do this if you're going to cash flow it. >> Put yourselves in a good financial position to where you have options and you have less risk, less stress, cuz that's always going to help you think more clearly and make the right decision for your family versus, well, we can't do this >> because we owe people money or we don't have the savings. >> Yeah. And that's like my ultimate fear is like everything's open right now and as soon as you have so much debt, it's like, "Oh, I actually can't >> exactly >> do the things I want to do." >> Yes.

>> Right. >> Well, we can't make the decision for you, but I have full faith that Ken is going to make the right one for her and her family when that time comes.

>> Yeah. And there's I I've sat with soing

moms who are pregnant who have to go back to work and they don't they didn't want to but they owe somebody money. And I've also sat with people who are like, "We can kind of do whatever we want. So we're going to do this for a while. I'm going to try that. I'm going to try this." And that just felt like freedom.

>> Oh yeah. Well, people made fun of us. They're like, "Why would you pay off your low interest mortgage early?" And then my wife decided to stay home and went, "That's why." It wasn't a financial decision. It was just an emotional one. Yeah. >> And that's that's one of the most beautiful things in life when you can take the financial burden off the table and then you can kind of do what you want for a while. That's invincibility right there.

John is in Minneapolis up next. John, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hey, how you guys doing, man?

>> Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Good. I'm So, I am a 20-year-old,

like you said. I'm I'm in Minnesota. I need some advice. I've got a good amount

of money saved up in a Roth IRA um that

I'm looking to invest and I >> saved up in a Roth IRA you're looking to invest. So, >> it's invested. >> Is it in like a on the money market side like in in a cash equivalent

>> or is it actually invested? >> Mostly mostly it's just cash. I there's a few thousand invested into it. Uh my mom has been helping me do that because she's very knowledgeable about the stock market. So she's invested a few thousand. I'm not exactly sure where.

But my my plan that I'm wondering is is

it wise to invest the majority or all of it just into the

S&P 500 since that's a historically

great return or is it wiser to

you know go more diverse with it?

>> I mean it that diversity is pretty strong. you got 500 of the top companies

that you're diversified across. Now, it's weighted, so it's not like there's one in each. You know, Apple's going to have more than a smaller company, but uh

yeah, the S&P 500 historically has delivered about a 10 to 12% average rate of return over the last several decades.

And so, do you need to diversify more than that? You know, our recommendation is across four mutual fund types. And this is largely what you'll find in an S&P 500 fund is you want growth,

aggressive growth, growth in income, and international. And that basically means conservative, midway, more aggressive,

and then we've got the international companies out there. And you're going to find a lot of that already in the S&P 500. So, you could do a whole lot worse than doing that. If you just did that, you're going to be a multi-millionaire if you consistently invest in that >> at the age of 20. exactly what I want to do, you know, cuz I I do max it out

every year. Um I have been since I was

uh 15, I think. And >> what's your income? >> Um uh well, you know, it varies. Uh I'm a business owner and I, you know,

currently I don't work a regular job. So

the the income can vary, but it it's

always been enough for me to contribute that.

At 15, how did you max out a Roth IRA?

>> I worked at a restaurant. Um,

>> like a custodial Roth that your parents had set up.

>> It was Yeah, my mom is very helpful with

helping me get my money, you know, as it should be. She was very adamant about that from a young age for me.

>> So, do you make over do you make $100,000? Give me a ballpark here of what you think you'll make 2025. What will your tax taxable income be

>> if I had to guess? Um I mean I am aiming

for it to be around $100,000. There's no

>> there's no guarantee yet. I run a landscaping business. So >> do you invest outside of the Roth IRA or do you just My goal is to max that out and then I'm done investing for the year.

>> Well, uh I don't like to over complicate things. So, personally, I would I would prefer to to

just have one source. So, have the Roth be my investment and then the rest of my money is money I can spend on whatever, put back into the business, etc.

>> Okay. Do you have any debt right now?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. Wonderful. And how much do you have in savings? How much do you have that's more liquid that's not invested?

>> I have just just over 30,000. Way to go,

dude. You're crushing it. >> Thank you. >> So, you would be in what we call baby step four. You're completely debtree.

You have a fully funded emergency fund and now you're able to invest 15% of your income. So, let's say you made 100,000 for easy numbers. We would say invest 15% of that into tax advantaged

retirement accounts. So, 7,000 is the contribution limit for the year. So, what happens after that? What you're telling me is I just sort of do what I want with the rest.

Um, exactly. I mean, you know, I don't

like to be a big spender. I'm not >> good >> buying uh things I don't need. Uh, I

mean, I do spend a decent amount of money a month uh on a credit card, which I pay off every month, but most of this um is gas and it's business related or it's food. So, you know, basic things.

>> Do you live with your family right now?

Fortunately, uh, yes. I live with my dad and that allows me to be able to save this money.

>> What's the long-term game plan? Are you going to continue running the landscape business into your 20s, 30s? >> Yeah, exactly. So, ideally, yes. Um,

I haven't written out a specific plan, which I should, but in the next couple

years, I'm looking to grow it like I have been and eventually get my own

place. But I'm kind of um it's like with

the with the investing, I'm willing to invest all of that money in in the Roth IRA, you know, cuz that's >> I'm telling you, John, you you can't there's contribution limits. So, what I'm telling you is once you go above and beyond that, you can find there's other avenues to invest in a tax advantage retirement account. One would be something like a solo 401k. You could open that as a business owner if you're the only employee.

Uh, and so there's other options I want to encourage you to invest in so that you can build more wealth versus just going, well, I'm going to do the Roth and that's it. And so, I'm going to um get you a investing guide. It's completely free. go to ramiesolutions.com/guide and download that cuz right now I see a guy who works really hard who has a great savings muscle but doesn't have a lot of clarity on what he's doing and why he's doing it >> and I don't want you to invest in things you don't understand and while I love that your mom has this knowledge you need to build this knowledge for yourself and so that would be my next step for you as a guy who has a bunch of money and wants to put it somewhere that it's going to work for him >> okay I will do Yeah.

Well, keep it up, man. If you keep living debtree and you keep maxing out a Roth IRA, even just doing that, go pop it into our investment calculator on our website, you will your mind will be boggled by that. Mike is in Chicago up next.

>> Hey, uh yeah, I was wondering

uh I work 116 hours a week and I was

wondering if there >> there's that many hours in a week.

>> What?

>> Yes. Uh I'm a machine. I'm a machine

operator. >> Okay. >> Is that safe to run the machines?

>> Like, aren't there like legal boundaries around that? >> Uh, we're not on the road or any CDL.

So, okay. >> We're in a we're private property.

>> All right. So, what's your question, dude? Yeah. Private property. We can do what we want. It's America, George.

Geez. Let Mike go. All right. So, what's the question, Mike? Uh, >> my question is I want to make more money than I'm making now, but I don't really have time for side hustles. So, >> what are you what are you making >> uh this year so far? I'm at roughly 273,000.

>> Okay. And what what was the impetus for you saying I need more money?

>> Uh I'm a collector, so like I mean I collect a lot of stuff. Comic books, trading cards, cars, um autograph stuff. And >> so I mean >> historic antiques.

>> Here's what you have to do. Like you know the answer to this because you're smart. you have to do a different job that you think is going to make you more than $273,000.

>> Like there's not a secret here.

>> And also, is this sustainable to be working over 100 hours a week?

>> Because if so, your income is going to drastically go down while your lifestyle is is going to stay high. So, I think we need to reset the picture here and go, what can I do for 40 or 50 hours a week that's sustainable, that pays me enough to live the life I want to live? And by the way, if your life is going to be judged on if you judge your life on how many trinkets you have surrounding you, it's going to be a miserable life.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's just >> So, what what do you make? Do you get paid hourly right now or is it salary?

>> Hourly. >> Okay. What do you make per hour?

>> Uh, what is it? 34 32.

>> But I mean, this means you're getting what? You're kidding.

80 hours a week of of uh overtime

>> just roughly. I think it's what 75 and a half. >> Gosh. So instead of making 32, I'm going what what kind of job in the field that I'm in pays 60 an hour or 90 an hour.

That way I can work 40 hours a week and live to tell the tale to actually enjoy all these trinkets I've collected. >> Or here's another crazy idea. What if, and this is going to be a struggle, you somehow survived on $200,000 a year and

you just stopped buying so many Pokémon cards? >> Yeah, I don't think we need more money, Mike. I think we need to re-evaluate our lifestyle.

Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. Well, good news. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. So go to ramseyolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. All right, let's go out to Maine. Karen joins us there. What's going on, Karen?

>> This call will be recorded.

>> Oh, good. Karen, thanks for recording.

We We put this on YouTube. We're recording it, too. You can check this out for eternity.

Hi. >> We're also recording for quality assurance purpose, right? >> Yeah. Well, and honestly, um, I use this to reference back, too.

>> You got it. What's up? >> So, if if that's okay with you.

>> Oh, absolutely.

>> All right. Wonderful. Uh, I am just shy

of 62 years old. Um, I am legally

separated from my husband, uh, with no

chance of it changing. I do not have a

retirement. I do not have a pension or

anything like that. I make roughly $42,000 a year. Uh the only thing that I

am in debt for is a mortgage.

And I have not invested in my work 401k

plan because to be honest with you, I'm scared to death about doing it because I know nothing about it. and they will

match up to 3% of what I put in.

So, this is open enrollment time and

I'm going to invest in 3% so I can get

their 3%.

Uh, because I figured that's free money um to go towards that, but I also want to get my mortgage down um in about 12 years if at all possible.

What's left on the mortgage?

>> Oh, almost all of it.

>> How much is that? Yeah, >> it it started at 80 and I am down to

775.

>> Okay. And a current rate >> I've only been I've only been paying on it since July.

>> Okay. And was this a 30-year or 15?

>> A 30. >> Okay. So, at the current rate you're paying, it'll take 30 years to pay this off. Well, no, not at the rate I'm going

because I'm paying extra on it at every chance I get. So, I've paid I've paid an extra 2,000 on it so far in the six months that I've had it. >> Let me ask you this question before George digs into your numbers. Do you have any sort of financial reconciliation as a part of the separation?

>> No, nothing. I would uh because uh he

ruined his business. Um, there was just

there was nothing there. Nothing there.

We we had only been married at the time for 9 and a half years. So, when I went into the relationship, I walked in with him his home that he priorly prior owned. >> Okay. >> Uh, what I what I did get when I left was two mobile homes that I lived in one for a short time and I rented out the other one. >> Okay. >> But with the way people are nowadays, I ended up I ended up selling both of those. >> Good. So, I have $25,000 in my uh high

yield savings account.

>> Wonderful. >> Right now. Okay. >> Um so, and I don't touch that at all.

>> Okay. George will tell you what to do with that money, but this is um >> Good. That's that's good. Okay.

>> So, how can we specifically help you today? What's the main question?

I don't know what to invest in with this 401k or if I should take that money and just put it onto my mortgage to get it down sooner. >> Well, you would be in what we call baby step four. So, you're out of debt. You have money in savings for emergencies.

So, you're ready to invest 15% of your income into retirement. So, 15% of your $42,000 salary, correct?

>> Yeah. I don't know if I can afford 15%.

Well, you're putting extra on the mortgage right now. Could we divert some of that towards investing?

>> I c I could, but then that's going to slow me down to get my mortgage paid off. >> Okay. Well, here's here's the thing. If you invest nothing, you're going to have nothing. So, I'm try we're trying to get you to a spot where you at least have a little nest egg growing for you with some compound growth. Now, we don't have a lot of time on our side anymore. Uh, but we're going to try to get this mortgage paid off with anything above and beyond that 15%.

But I would not tell you to just put everything on the mortgage you can and don't invest a dime because at the end of the day then you're going to have no nest egg and no mortgage payment which be 75 and selling your house. Exactly.

>> Yeah. Okay. Even though I've got it into a high yield savings which I only earn for >> you will keep up with you will keep up with inflation if you're lucky and so your your buying power is getting lost every day. So the high yield savings at least keeps up with that, but you need to rise above and beyond that in order to actually have wealth, to order to have some extra money, to have your money make money.

And so that 401k, it's it's going to be time to learn what funds are in that 401k and which ones are right for you. >> And for that, I would get connected with a smart investor pro who can sit down with you and walk you through those options and guide you towards doing something that you've never done before, which is understand what you're investing into. I don't want you blindly picking something because someone told you to.

Here's why I'm investing in it.

>> Okay? >> And as a primer on that, you can get our free investing guide at ramseolutions.com/guide.

And that will at least give you some basic information about our retirement investing strategy.

>> But here's a bummer. >> Your picture of retirement is going to look different. >> Yeah. And here's a bummer of this is just us being honest with you because we love you. Okay.

>> Okay. It may be that at 62, while you're still in good health and your mobility is still okay, $42,000 isn't going to

cut it.

It may be that I'm working >> 42,000 isn't going to cut it.

>> That means that if you look at the math problem that is your life, and this is this is taking feelings off the table. This is taking heartbreak off the table. This is just looking at the math problem.

>> Yeah. If you need $500,000 to retire

when you're 75, it may be that you >> I doubt that's going to happen.

>> Well, you'll surprise yourself till the day I die. >> Well, but but it may be that while you can still fly around a little bit at a young Spritley 62, it may be that you make 42 grand and you work another side job on on the weekends.

>> Well, and actually I am working on a side hustle right now to get that started. >> Okay. A side hustle might mean you're investing money into a thing, you're spending money and it becomes a hobby and you're going to look up in two years. Like you don't have that luxury right now at 62, >> right? >> You know what I'm saying? >> No, that the goal for that side hustle was for me to put it all towards my mortgage to get out from underneath it cuz my mortgage interest rate is 625.

>> Yeah, that that's that's a high interest rate, but historically it's not. And it's that's just a lot of like social media drama. Like I want you to focus on the things you can control. Like what's your side hustle?

>> Like what? >> What's your side hustle?

>> Um it's going to be selling things on eBay for my former boss and I get 40% of

whatever I sell.

>> Okay. I want you to try that for three or four months and see how it works out.

>> Made really good money at it. Yeah, he's made really good money at it. Um >> but I don't want you to put a dime into it. I want him to give you the items and you take pictures of them and you deal with the stuff for the 40%.

>> That's that's what I'm doing.

>> And track it against your time and what act what money you actually made from that. Cuz if it's taking you, >> you know, if if you might do the math and go, I'm making $6 an hour by the time I'm done with this. >> You can go to Arby's and double that.

>> Exactly. So, just make sure that whatever you're doing is worth your time. And try to get your core income up. Can we make 50 or 60 or 70,000 with the skills and experience you have?

And I think you just you stop betting on yourself at some point in life. >> George, can you run through your um calculator there? Like the the Ramsay investment calculator. Can you run through if she puts 15% of her money, what does that look like at what age?

>> So Karen, here's the thing. I know you said you don't think you have enough. You need to make this a priority to invest. If you invest 15%, it's about 500 bucks a month.

525 from the age of 62 to age 80. Let's just admit we're going to have to work a lot longer than we planned on.

>> Okay? >> Now, if you go to 75, it becomes 180,000. So, you can see that the power of compound growth needs time. So, those last 5 years really matter cuz that 80, guess what? You contributed about 113,000.

240,000 was just the growth. That was your money making you more money. So, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. We all know that. The next best time is today. So, don't delay it.

Don't say, "Well, investing is not for me cuz I haven't done it and I'm 62." If you can fog up a mirror, there is hope for you yet, Karen. So, hang on the line. We'll make sure you get connected to a Smart Investor Pro who can walk you through all of this and make sure you get that guide. Listen back to this and let it be a reminder that it's not too late to have a retirement with some dignity.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 13:20.

Walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm. John

Bon Joy said, "Don't get too comfortable with who you are at any given time. You may miss the opportunity to become who you want to be." >> Yeah, George. >> There's your inspiration, John. Little Bon Joy. >> That shot through right through my heart. >> And you're too late.

>> All right, Danielle is in Miami, Florida. >> That was some great >> That was impressive. >> I mean, I don't want to say that we're standup comics, but that was pretty good stuff right there. >> Oh, Danielle, save us. How are you doing? >> I'm doing well, thanks.

>> What's up, lady?

So, um I am facing a metastatic cancer.

I'm hoping for the best.

>> How recently were you diagnosed?

>> Uh about 3 weeks ago.

>> Holy smokes. How old are you?

>> 59. >> Jeez. >> And my husband is 65 and we have an 8-year-old. >> Oh no.

I mean, oh, yay. But oh no.

>> Right. >> What's the time horizon they gave you?

>> I'm a planner. I just, like I said, we're hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. And um my husband and I

are thinking that he is the beneficiary

of my 403b from my work that I had.

>> Mhm. and we are thinking he should pay

off our mortgage with that and that will leave him with um social security and

um income from a rental property property that we own free and clear to live off of. >> I can I challenge you on something?

>> I think this is if this is a

If this is a way to manage just the sudden chaos inside your own chest, I totally get it.

But I don't want him making any plans on how he's going to spend money after his wife or if his wife passes. And here's why.

>> Who knows what that world looks like.

I've met people that can't walk back into the home that they were married in

because their spouse doesn't live there anymore. And I don't want to tie anybody down to I promised her, I said I would.

We've moved this money already. I want if if you say, "Hey, I want you're a goofball and I want to have a plan down just so I can say I checked that off my list of things I need to go through because I'm struggling with this diagnosis." I totally get that. But I

also want you to look him in the eye and say, "I'm going to hold this with a very loose fist because who knows how you're going to feel after this thing's over." My rule of thumb is nobody do anything for 6 months to a year after their loved one passes.

>> Okay, >> that's my rule. >> And do we do we continue paying tithe during this time?

>> Continue paying what?

>> Our tithe. >> Your tithe like to your church? >> To our church. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean it the giving is a matter of the heart and it doesn't you know stop unless there is a if there's a storm in your life where you go we can't afford this right now and something takes priority so we can provide for our family >> no one would shame you for that.

>> Yeah. >> But if giving is a part of you and that's what you want to do >> go for it. Don't stop the tithe.

>> What what's what's the what's the terminal nature of this of this illness?

What what stage are you in? How much time do they give you all that? >> It's well we we've got some more testing to do. >> Okay.

Um, it's a melanoma that we know has spread to my lungs and our next step is a PET scan to see if it's anywhere else like the brain. >> Okay. So, that's a tough that's a tough diagnosis you got. >> And I could I mean, you know, I could potentially if the treatment goes well, I could, you know, I could have a long time.

>> Sure. That's right.

I'm worrying about and things I can control right now.

Okay. >> And the things that you're worrying about, write them on a separate list.

Keep them in your phone. Write them on a yellow pad, whatever. And once every few weeks, you and your husband sit down and have him smile at you and get you a cup of coffee and he says, "Go, let them rip." And you just start piling them up.

What if an asteroid hits us? What if the dinosaurs come back? What if Jurassic Park is real? What if the moon landing was fake? Like all that stuff.

>> And what happens? What are you going to do with this fund on this date when I pass away? And then this like get all just do that and then go back to okay

what can we control the day? We can go for a walk outside. We can go play with our 8-year-old. We can take some pictures. We can go to an arcade. We can have some fun. We can go get treatment.

Whatever. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you currently have a will in place?

We do, but it needs updating because um

at the time we did it, our son was our

foster son and he wasn't legally adopted yet. >> Please do that ASAP.

>> Yes. >> So, there are some practical things you can do. Like John said, there's some things you can control and making sure that your will is up to date. Making sure that every account has the correct beneficiary on there. Uh healthcare power of attorney, durable power of attorney for your financial decisions.

All of that stuff is important. and you can knock that out this week.

>> My wife has a folder that has every account, every password, every email account, every every everything.

>> And once or twice a year, she reminds me where it is. And >> I remind her where mine is. And it's like all the phone passcodes, the Netflix code, all the stuff. And that

might be a good thing to start putting that together just just for peace of mind for yourself. Right.

>> Right. It it sounds sooner rather than later, but it's not imminent. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, that's okay. I feel, you know, in a lot of ways, the last 30 years have been a blessing because when I was 29 years old, >> I went through a bone marrow transplant for leukemia. >> Oh, good gravy. Last

years have been have been a bonus. You know, >> you've been playing on house money.

So, how have you did? Have you have you had a good a good run?

>> I have. It's been wonderful. And you know, this this little boy came into our lives, you know, seven and a half years ago, and it's just been the joy of our lives. >> You're amazing.

My prayer for you is that they come back

with some positive news after the PET scan and they put you on a good treatment and you get the right surgery and you're you've got another >> long road. >> We're rooting for you, Daniel. Awesome.

Thank you for calling us and trusting us with this. >> All right, let's go out to Linda in Cincinnati. What's going on, Linda?

>> Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

So, um, my father passed away earlier

this year and I've been working through his estate. We're almost done. My mom

called me last week and said, "Hey, in the 1990s, your dad ran up my credit cards. He wasn't providing blah blah blah $10,000. He ran it up and he always

said he would pay it back. Do you think

Can you give me that out of the estate?

Cuz he always said he would pay it back.

This is a real debt. >> Are they divorced? >> I just don't They never got married. >> Okay. How How much How big is this estate?

>> Um medium. Probably our take-home will be

about 95,000.

>> So she's want a 10% cut. to make good

on. >> Yes. >> Wow. That is so wild. I mean, I I don't

think she has any legal claim to this. I doubt there was a contract. This feels like a handshake. He said, she said agreement from the '9s.

>> It sounds like drama. >> So, it would never hold up. But do you like your mom? >> Yeah.

Well, not even that. You know, your mom, if you give her this money, will she just just I I don't mean to be rude. Will she just shut up or will there something else come next month and something else come the month after? >> Well, with interest, it's really 15.

So, I need another five now.

>> Yes. >> Okay, then just say no. >> Very manipulative. Just really showed her too. Enough said. Enough said. Just say no.

>> Say I hate that he did that. >> And she's probably going to raise some help. She's she might Will she come after you with like legal

like like sue you for this money?

>> Has already threatened a little bit of that. She's like, I could put a lean on this property. >> Yeah, she seems like the type. That's what I was getting at. I'm trying to Here's what I'm grappling with.

her property.

>> You could try to pay her off and she goes away, but I think she's going to continue to knock on the door cuz you give her an inch, she takes a mile.

>> She's not going to put a lean on the property. >> Are you selling this property?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Put it on the market tomorrow and just be done.

>> I It's It's already in contract. We're supposed to close in like a week.

>> Oh, great. Then just go on about your life.

Well, my question is as a as a Christian, I don't know. Is there any kind of middle road? Can I be like, "Mom, I don't really owe you anything." But as a kind of >> This is between her and a deceased husband. She never actually married. So, >> you don't have a spiritual moral obligation because you don't know if this actually happened and she's made up crap to you about him your whole life.

>> This is not a what would Jesus do scenario. No, this is just do I if I give her 10 grand, will this stop all the madness or will it just spark an open door and I think you know it will open the door.

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## 148. Stop Ignoring The Financial Red Flags In Your Life | November 24, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:57:24 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour, the number to call is88255225.

It's your show. We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Rihanna is with us in Minneapolis. Rihanna, welcome to the show. >> Hi, thank you so much for having me today. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, so I just have a question for you guys. Um, so was I right to break off my engagement because of long-term money issues and bad spending habits? I've always been disciplined with saving and planning for money, but he struggled with overspending and staying employed.

Now that he's moved out, I've taken on full full financial responsibilities myself. How can I stay on top of my bills while saving and protecting my future? >> Oo, that was like 20 20 things in one.

>> Okay, well, we'll tackle the first part first. So, um, were you right to break this off because of red flags that were not attended to that he clearly this was a value you had.

>> And this is a value every woman has is if I'm going to marry some guy, he's got to be able to do at least two things.

provide and protect, right? That's the reason why we find a mate primally speaking. And you're saying he can't provide for the future. This was red flags that this guy can't hold a job.

He's going to continually go into debt, put us in a financial bind. Therefore, I'm out. And essentially, he opted out of this engagement by continuing these habits that you made clear. Am I hearing that right? >> Yes, that's correct.

>> Wow. >> I mean >> I mean that's your choice. That's your prerogative. I say bullet dodged cuz this is it's either this or a divorce later on.

I'd rather, you know, nip it in the bud while we can. >> Yeah. So many people I would really I mean I wasn't there. I'm just going by what you said, but based on what you said, I would applaud you for it cuz so many people ignore red flags cuz you get so far down the line it's like I can't turn back now and it's kind of like a sunk cost >> or scarier.

>> Well, never gonna happen.

>> Okay. Now, if he called into the show, Briana, what would he say if he were to defend his honor?

>> You know, I I I would say that he he's always tried to maintain a job, but it's just never worked out. Before I previously knew him, he was employed for seven years doing software sales, and now he just can't. Ever since I got together with him, he can't hold a job just because the market's been so unsteady. >> And how long was the entire thing? How how long was the dating and then the the the engagement? Um, total everything was

about two and a half years. >> Listen, I think that's long enough to get a a read on the situation. It's not like this was super fast. I I think that, again, I wasn't there, but you made the choice.

You had enough time to see a track record and you seem like your thoughts are composed. So, I'm going to ride with you on this because you are the one telling us your side of it, and it makes sense to me.

So >> yeah, thank you. >> So what's the second part of the question? >> Yeah, so I would like to be able to better now that I've taken on I've asked him to move out, I've taken on full financial responsibility of like paying our rent and then um while we were together, I purchased a car um because I was able to make up that payment with having him here now that I have >> Hold on, Bonnie. You went into debt during the engagement?

>> Yes. And that was primarily because he kept telling me that I needed a new car.

>> What were you driving before?

>> I was driving a Nissan Ultima that needed quite a bit of maintenance.

>> Got you. And what did you get? What did you >> I got um 2025 Mazda CX70.

>> What do you owe? >> I owe about 50 on that.

>> Shoot. >> What do you make?

>> I make about um about $100,000 a year.

>> That's a lot of car even for your income. >> Is that your only debt or you have more?

Um, I have about uh 15 grand in student loans and then I have like two grand in credit card debt, but that's it.

>> Okay, here's my thing, Briana. I was really team Briana and now the more I hear you, the more I go, I'm not sure you believe in your own principles cuz you wanted this guy to clean up his act financially while you were an accomplice to the crimes.

So, it's like, how am I supposed to take you seriously if I'm the fiance going, you really need to get better with your spending habits and then I'm over here financing a $50,000 car. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's difficult because he drives a a BMW X4M competition. So it

was just that terrible to get a nice car. >> So you were trying to keep up with him and it's his fault. But still lifestyle.

>> It does seem like though it was more Can I I'm a ride on the fence on this. I I hear what George is saying and he is not wrong. Uh but the other part is I feel like you were more on the why doesn't he have a job regularly >> side of things. Is that too >> is the fact that it will this guy be employed or will he be sitting on my couch all day when I come home? Is that Did I get that right?

>> Yeah. And that's kind of what it had been before too. So that's why I had asked him to move out >> because to your I I am playing devil's advocate here. I'm just I'm just letting you know.

>> She got me riled up. That's all I'm saying. She got a plank in her eye and she's looking at the spec and is because here's the thing. There are plenty of people in the world who are fine with debt.

We know that. We don't agree with that. But plenty of people are like, "Yeah, I got my car note, my credit card." For a lot of people, that's not the problem. The problem is when you have somebody who's not working and seems like they might not be able to hold a job and seems like they might be a tad bit lazy.

I could see how that's a bigger red flag to you. Um, in the grand scheme of things, that being said, you can't be the what is it the pot calling the kettle? >> Black. >> Black.

>> Yeah. No, I see both sides. I think you were right to break off the engagement and I think we need to accept a little more responsibility that we weren't quite the angel that we maybe made ourselves out to be and he's the devil here. I think both of you had bad money habits.

money moves and you were looking to him to be a leader and guide you and he couldn't do that. >> He was in a place of weak weakness too.

And so it's hard to fault him for that as much as I want to be like well this guy's trash and you should I think you both have some things to work on. Can we agree? >> Yes. No, I completely agree.

>> And I hope that if you if this is a value you have, I want someone who can provide for me. I don't think that means I want someone who can float my lifestyle no matter what and afford a payment. I want you to reframe this and go, how can I put myself in such a good financial position? Then when I do meet the right guy, we are building wealth together instead of just making stupid decisions together.

>> And there's part of this where if let's say you, you know, you've you've broken it off, you guys have gone your separate ways. If it's meant to be, you could go get back together. Like you could give him a that could have been the kick in the butt that he needed to go out and really show and prove who he's going to be because the truth is you've just never seen it.

want to see. You don't want all the talking. You want somebody to be about it. >> I love that Jade is not giving up on love here. Is there is there a shot this could still work, Bion, or is this like long gone? >> You know, we've tried to make it work.

Um, we still like sometimes see each other and stuff, but it's just I don't see any motivation from him to want to be better. Um, he's determined to get a job that's been in the process of about six weeks now, and he still >> has he been doing any kind of work?

>> Um, no. >> What's he doing all day?

>> I don't know.

>> I think you better cut it loose.

>> Yeah. >> Well, the writing was on the wall, Briana. And uh the good news is you're going to be real busy cleaning up this mess of your own for a while. And I think you also we need to own up to the fact that we made a lot of decisions that were codependent and hinging on someone we weren't married to.

>> I can make the rent as long as he pays.

I can make the payment as long as he's in my life. And I think all of that is why we tell people never combine financial lives or for that matter physical lives living together before you're married. It just gets too messy because this could be on the other side.

Mhm. And yeah, now you're going to now you're going to feel that being the only one covering that rent.

>> Yeah, I'm wishing you the best as as you clean this up. Personally, I would sell that car as soon as possible. I wouldn't even work on paying it off. I would get rid of it. There's no reason you you need to be driving a $50,000 car walking out of this mess. So, best of luck to you, Briana.

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>> Jeremy is up next in Boisey. What's going on, Jeremy?

>> Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. >> Yeah, what's what's going on? Um, my wife and I keep fighting about money.

Um, she's hardcore on the Dave Ramsey plan. Uh, I support it. I believe it.

I'm doing all the things that I feel like I should be, but I want to spend money on stuff that she doesn't agree with and it's causing fights and I don't want to get a divorce over it.

>> But I also want her to kind of lighten up a little bit and have a little bit of fun with some money. Where should I go with this? because I know I'm wrong for spending the money, but I don't want to just not spend any money.

>> Give us some examples. How much are you spending per month and on what? And she feels like that's out of control.

>> Well, we both um spend money, but hers

is more like regulated. Um, mine is on

I'm restoring an old car and >> I'm I keep spending, you know, it's like it's it's almost done, but I'm probably about $10,000 away from having it completely like finished.

>> Do you guys have an aotted money that you get each month?

>> Each of you? >> Uh, no. We both work.

>> I know. >> But we're saying in the budget, is it like Jeremy's fun money, her fun money, and it's $100 each? You know, like what is what's the plan there? Or is it just Jeremy spends what he wants based on the parts he needs?

>> That's basically what's been happening.

>> Okay. >> I understand her frustration now. It's just like you're spending like Congress while you're trying to get out of debt and she's going, "This is going very much against the plan we agreed on." >> So when you're saying you support her, it sounds like you're like, "I'm a fan of her doing it, but I'm not doing it." >> Yeah. I think >> there's a middle ground that you can get to. I think there's a middle ground.

What's the urgency for this uh car restoration?

>> Uh it's been 17 years in the works and

it's almost done. So I'm trying to finish it. >> So what's 18 instead of 17?

>> Right. I get it. >> What has stopped you, I guess, in the past of finishing this?

>> Just not working, you know, like I worked in the movie industry for a long time and there there's highs and lows and when the highs are up, you're you make a lot of money and it's great. when the lows are there, you're living off savings for months. And it kind of

forced me to choose to pay my bills or restore this car. And I chose bills. But now I'm at a point where we're pretty much good. We cover the bills every month. We're still putting into retirement. You know, we have life insurance policies. We have all that stuff in place. >> Um contributing >> a little bit. How much? About 20 about 20,000 in credit card debt, but that's fairly recent. >> That's it. >> Um >> that's Yeah. That's a lot.

>> I don't know what kind of town you grew up in, but $20,000 at 29% APR is enough

to get me to stop restoring that car.

>> Yeah. What's your income?

>> Uh, together we're making about 120 to 130,000. We owe 190 on our house. It's worth 3/4 of a mill. We have two car payments. Mine's about 3 years from being paid off. Hers is brand new, 25 Suburban. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> what's the total debt outside of your mortgage if you added it all up?

including the cars 125.

>> So 125,000 in debt total and you make

130. How long is it going to take based on her plan for you guys to get out of this mess?

>> If we did it her way, it' take us about two years. Um, and if we do it my way, it' take probably three or four.

>> And you're just not So you're just not You don't see why you have to do it so quickly, right?

>> That's I I support like all of the decisions. I just I don't want to I don't know if it's a midlife crisis because I'm 47 and I'm like I need to finish this car before I die. Like >> okay >> like I've been working to I've drugg this car around the country for decades and I just want to I want to drive like the engine's done. It's ready to go in.

I just need like brakes and suspension parts. >> How much does it cost to finish it?

>> About 10 grand for that's including the paint job. >> 10,000 to finish. You want to know what I would do if I were in your shoes?

Because >> Yes. Um, I want to be really thoughtful about this because the truth is I wish that you were 100% Ramsay because I know the plan works. I've seen and talked to hundreds of thousands of people and we know that it's worked for millions of people. So, I know that it works.

However, the reality is and like the just living in reality is there's sometimes that people are like, "Hey, for me it's just it's just not on fire like that." And like like you you opened with this is not a reason to divorce your spouse, right?

this work together? that point, >> right? And and that's not good. So, >> here's what she's seeing. Let me show you her side. She's seeing a guy who is choosing a hobby of car restoration over the strength and stability of their marriage and finances. That's what she's seeing. >> Mhm. >> And I can't get her to unsee that because that is the stated goal she has is I don't feel good about all this debt we have. I want stability. I want security. I want safety. And you're over here playing with your toy, right?

That's how she sees it. I'm not I want to give you full credit. This is a legitimate hobby. And also, it's been 17

years. So to use this manufactured urgency that babe, I got to finish the car this year. I don't think a grown woman's going to take kindly to that when she's looking at a pile of $120,000 of debt. >> And if you were going to do anything, then at the very least, let me just say this.

At the very least, >> take your income as it stands and do the debt snowball. And if you must finish this, go out and get a job.

hobby that you have and just see how see what that if that gets you guys any closer to kind of a meeting of the minds on this. >> I did that for a while. I did have a second job >> and what did she say about that? Did that bother her?

>> Yeah. Well, then it it just kind of got to a point where I was just never home and then she was mad that I was never home. So >> Oh, okay. Do you guys have kids? Mhm.

>> We do. We have a four-year-old and I have two adult children. >> Okay. >> And I am I'm like I said, I don't want

to keep repeating myself. I really am on board with, you know, having our future prepared for, but I'm just kind of tired of waiting and I don't know how to get that through to her without having an argument. >> Have you guys been debtree since you've been married?

>> Uh, almost completely. She inherited some money and we used it and just paid

off everything and um I went right back

to >> Well, I've always taken the stance. That's her money. It's not my money that So, I've I offered to take out a personal loan at 10% interest to pay off

everything.

um the well not not the cars, but all the the 20,000 in credit card debt and then finish the car and then I'll just

and that would be in my name so that she wouldn't be responsible for it and I would just have that one payment. It would take five years if I paid it without double pays. >> I think you're just I think you're doing so so much to try to >> it's it's causing you guys to do to even think separately at this point. I you know >> I agree with you.

I agree with you.

I'm I I've had something happen. It's an emergency. I need you to come right away. And I go okay just let me finish up this thing. I got about 30 minutes here and then I'm going to come over.

I'm going to be like oh my gosh. They don't care that I'm having an an emergency because they're like, "Let me fix a snack before I go." >> And I feel like that's what you're doing. She's saying, "Hey, this is on fire. This is an emergency to me." And you're going, "Yeah, honey. I know. I know. I know. But you're fixing yourself a snack before you go check it out." >> And so I can see why she's upset. Um,

and I can also see cuz for you this

feels extreme. So I can also see why this feels extreme to you. But you have to ask yourself, what's the bigger? What really is the bigger priority? Is the bigger priority making sure my life and my family is set up for success? Because you don't know what the future holds.

You truly don't. You could lose your job tomorrow. You could jump step off the curb and break your leg and be on work, you know, on disability. You don't know what happens tomorrow.

So, I think that's what she's feeling. >> And we know the car will still be there waiting to be worked on. And I know it's frustrating, but I would let that fuel the dream. And if you're not willing to do that, I would go, "All right, well, I'm selling the cars then." If you want to expedite the process, you can do it by getting rid of these payments.

>> What are the car balances?

>> Uh, we owe 50 on the Suburban. It's worth 90. Uh, and we owe I owe 30 on my

truck. I had a 23 Tacoma. It's worth about 60. >> Oh my goodness. So, you guys could sell the cars. Hear me. Hear me out. You'd have 40 profit from the first one, 30 from the next one. You'd have 70 grand sitting in a bank account to go buy some used cars and pay off debt.

>> Yes. Are you seeing what I'm seeing?

>> I think we can get this car restoration done in the next 12 months if we actually did this.

>> But right now, we want the cake. We want to eat it too. We want to do the car restoration. We want to drive really nice cars we can't afford. We also want to pay off 20 grand in credit card debt.

It's just too much at once. And she's overwhelmed. You're overwhelmed. But you have a distraction with this car restoration hobby. And so you're like, "Well, I'm going to go to the garage. I think we need to have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and figure out what sacrifices we are willing to make." Otherwise, you're going to be choosing divorce. That's what you're doing.

You're opting out of this marriage by focusing on this car instead of what she really needs right now.

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Kaylee is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Kaylee, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi guys. Um, okay, so I'll get to the point. Um, I'm Canadian and I moved to Orlando, Florida on a work visa. Um, and when I moved, I bought a house with my mother in Orlando, Florida.

And my dad was really, he's like riskaverse and he was against it kind of like the whole time in the beginning cuz he was just afraid like moving from country to country. He just didn't want any part of it. So, we ended up me and my mother are on the deed of this house in Orlando, Florida.

house taxes or anything that happens with the house we need a new fridge or like the roof or something we still divide that bill by two between me and my mom but I keep saying we should divide it by three since he owns majority of the house so when we sell the house he's going to get most of the profit it. Um, and I love my parents.

Like, we're we're amazing. It's just I I always I in my head I think we should divide the the bills by three, but am I being a brat cuz I don't have a mortgage anymore. So, like, am I just like just not being a good daughter and just should just do divide by >> This is like a common math riddle. This is real complex.

What was the agreement when you guys got into the house? Did you both put equal parts for the down payment, >> 5050 on the mortgage? >> Me and my mom Yeah, me and my mom both put 45,000 US. So, it was like 90,000 down payment.

And then we were both paying. Yeah.

>> 204. 204,000. And And I think like over

like it was 2 years me and my mom were paying and we got it to a point where 204 was left. So he owns 204,000 of the

house and then me and my mom owned the rest. And my parents are married too. So >> according to what and who was there an agreement, a contract?

>> Uh no, just like verbal agreement.

>> But your your mom and your dad, they keep their money separate.

No, no, they keep it. No, they keep it together, but just my mom my dad didn't want anything to do with the the house kind of thing, but then they always bring it back. Well, they're married, so anything that happens to my mom happens to my dad, right? So >> So if you leave, what happens?

Do you get your share back? Do they buy you out? >> Yeah. So yeah, pretty much it's either they buy me out or we sell it all together and then we all go with our our different portions.

>> Well, I think I think you have to decide to something first off. First off, you have to decide, are you viewing when I the reason I asked my question is because if your mom and your dad were keeping their money separate, then you could think of it as thirds. But because it's one group of money for them and then one group of money for you, it really is a 50/50 deal. So whether you want to see it this way or not, when you and your mom bought this house, quote 50/50, your dad your dad was included in that whether he likes to put his name in it or not, that was 50% of his money, right?

>> That 50% was his money as well. So, that's kind of the way I'm seeing it based on the way you said it's not thirds. It's their group of money versus your group of money.

>> You both want to stay in the house.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, my parent, it's actually that's another thing, too. So, they're in Canada most of the time and they come visit me every two months.

So, I take care of the house while they're here. I have the bigger room because I'm here most of the time and like so that's another thing, too. So, it's like I'm technically not paying for mortgage. So, I I guess I since I'm in the house most of the time, maybe I should be paying half the house taxes.

And the house taxes are expensive because I'm a foreigner, too.

a year. Always get slammed every year.

Me and my mom divide by two. And then I keep arguing. I'm like, it should be divided by three. >> No, I think you should be paying half.

I think it's half and half. And then >> whenever I think this is messy to begin with, number one, but you have to consider it 50/50. Your mom and dad are an entity and you are an entity. That's really what it is.

And the fact that you are living there and it's rent free and blah blah blah. Yeah, I think you should be on the hook for half. I mean, am I crazy here, George? But I I think >> your parents are one entity in this in this matter.

Are you paying half of the homeowner's insurance? >> Yeah. Half the And then like if the fridge breaks down or something, it's divide by two. >> Yeah. But why are you saying it with a

tone that's like like you're mad about it? I feel like this for you has been kind of a sweet deal. Like why do you have a >> Because I agree. I THIS IS WHY I'M CALLING because I'm like am I crazy or am I not crazy?

Also cuz I just think in my head when we sell the house though they're getting the majority of the profit and I just feel like >> I think you guys need things in writing cuz so far your little verbal agreement handshakes have not worked out cuz there's zero clarity cuz at every turn there's a new thing we didn't think about. Right. >> Yeah.

>> No. No. Like when we sell, I get my whatever like my down payment that I put and then Yeah. Like whatever percentage I'm in right now, I'm going to get the percentage of the profit. So, and what is that percentage? Because you've got home appreciation, you've got the mortgage payments you've made, you've got the insurance and property taxes money you've paid in.

>> So, how are you calculating? But it's not it it wouldn't be 50/50 though the profit. It's like they they would get like I guess 80% of the profit and I get 20% kind of thing.

>> Tell me tell me the real number of when you put 50% down on the down payment.

How much was that?

>> No. So I put 45,000 US. >> Okay. And what did your mom and dad put down? >> Yeah. So then now they So over two years I think I have roughly around 60,000 and they have the remaining. So I'm going to have 60,000 in this house equity.

Okay. What if the house appreciates and doubles in the next seven years? What happens then? You still get the same percentage. >> So I think 60 whatever 60% uh sorry

60,000 of 340,000 that's how much the house is. Okay. >> Whatever that percentage is, that's how much percentage I would get for the profit. >> Okay.

About 18% is what you'd walk away with. If the house is worth half a million, then after all fees are paid, you should get 18%. I would have that in writing and have all of you sign it in a come to Jesus meeting and say this has been messy. I love you guys.

I don't want this to be living in my head rentree. I feel like it's been a cluster.

That would have helped. >> We're agreed. That's what we're agreed with. We're good to go. It's just the I find the house like living here with the bills and stuff. I'm I was I guess a g not a game but I was just questioning it cuz I was like well would be because if it's a buy three then I have to pay I get to pay lower of the bill you know.

>> Why don't you move? >> Oh >> why don't you move? >> Well because I just moved I just moved here. >> I know but here here me out. You're so

conflicted by this that you called in the show. You're bothered by the percentage that you have to pay. You're bothered by what you have to pay every month. you're bothered by the agreement as it stands because what George just said, "Hey, get it in writing." That is 18%. You're like, "That's already agreed on." So, you're just not happy with the deal as it is. So, get out of it before it gets messier and messier and just say, "You know what? We did this. I'm not sleeping well at night with this.

It's causing something inside of me. I'm just going to move and get an apartment on my own and just be on my own. Fair enough. I mean, why not

simplify your life?" >> Yeah. Well, no, because I I do think I have a sweet deal and it works out perfectly because they want someone to watch the house. >> You don't think you have a sweet deal.

You don't you called in saying that there's a problem with the deal because you're having to pay part of the taxes and it should be three ways and d what happens when you called saying that.

>> Yeah. But I guess the question my question was like I just wanted your advice like am I is crazy for thinking that or my advice for me to pay >> I my advice is get out of this deal and go rent an apartment.

>> How old are you?

dirty. >> Yeah. Get out from under your parents.

You got You don't have to do this with them. Go get an apartment.

>> Do I think it's crazy you feel this way?

No. Do I think it's crazy you got into this situation in the first place? Absolutely. >> Yeah.

>> Well, no. Like, well, I need more conduct, too. Like, I'm on a a work visa, right? So, anything could happen.

I have to go back to Canada, too. And I don't Oh, I think renting for me me I'd rather buy something than to like cuz right now I'm not paying a mortgage >> really because buying is far more permanent then that adds a whole another layer of risk if you can't work there anymore but the house is still tied to you and now you got to forceell it. I mean or still make the payments and you don't have the job. That's scary, isn't it?

>> No. No. Cuz we'll keep it as like a vacation home because we come off into Florida. So it was okay.

>> Who's going to pay for the vacation home now? You're going to go, "Well, they're there more than I am. They go four time." It's like a time share now.

>> And you're living there mostly solo, you said, right?

>> Yeah. >> So, couldn't they make the argument, well, you're there 284 days out of the year. We're only there 100 days. I think we should split it that way. >> Mhm. >> Could they come back at you without Exactly. >> They might get you to pay more versus less. This could very much backfire.

They're they're holding most of the cards right now as a majority stakeholder in this venture you signed up for. So that's why Jade's saying, "Hey, I would cut clean and go, you have some great equity now. You could get out with 60 grand, use that as a down payment on your own place. You probably don't need all the space." Right.

>> Right. >> I don't think it's a bad plan to reset and go, "All right, I'm going to let them buy me out. Do they have the money to buy you out without selling?" >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I might offer that up as one angle to take. And if they're into it, I I would cut ties and go, "You know what? I shouldn't have bought family property across the world. That was a risky, weird move.

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Not available in all states. >> All right, today's question of the day comes from Justin in Michigan. He says, "I need help with my budget. I use the free version of every dollar, but can't seem to make it through the month without borrowing from my emergency fund.

And then I have to replace the funds when I get paid. My budget reads like I have extra money each month. So, I pay that to my snowball. But should I skip a snowball payment for one month to get a buffer in my account to not have to do the borrow payback thing each month between paychecks?

Okay.

couple things are happening here. I think George, number one, I think that you don't have a baby step one in place, which is $1,000. And I think that might be the buffer that you need. Uh, possibly.

It depends on what this if this money is earning from his $1,000 emergency fund. It sounds like that's what he's doing. >> Yeah. >> Is he short 300 bucks, so he dips into the $1,000 starter to get by, then replaces it, and he just stays in this cycle.

>> Yeah. Which means then his budget's not accurate. >> Yeah. I would have a buffer in your checking account of, you know, 300 bucks, 500 bucks depending on what your expenses are.

I think that's wise because there's always going to be something unexpected. It was a little more than you thought. You know, your groceries and things like that. It's variable and so life might happen.

But I do think there are some other money leaks happening that you aren't currently represented in your budget.

>> Yeah. If the math's not math, then your line items are off. you maybe underestimated. You said, "Hey, I'm going to spend 500 on groceries." And you're consistently spending six. Well, we need to switch some things around so that you're actually staying under under the categories instead of going over.

So, I would figure out which ones are there. Maybe there's a line item you need to add that isn't currently there that represents that money that's kind of been leaking out. And that will help you get there. But, I'm proud of you for even trying this and trying to be aware of where your money's going. Most people just accidentally go six grand into debt over the year. and this guy's trying to get out. So, good on you, Justin.

>> Also, make sure, Justin, that you're tracking your transactions as they're taking place so that you can get ahead of this a little bit more because if you're tracking them, you can kind of start to see what's happening and maybe make some adjustments as you're going

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That's one of my favorites for people that are struggling with an issue like this. And there's a ton of ton more advanced features we've been adding to make this way more than just our world-class budgeting app. The average person now finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes with the new Every Dollar onboarding process.

It's incredible. So, start Every Dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Madison is in

Sacramento, California up next. What's going on, Madison?

Hello. Um, I'm honored to be able to get your advice. But yes, I am 24 years old.

My husband and I got married a year and a half ago and we are on baby step number four. So, we have worked to pay off my student loans and a car as well.

>> Awesome. >> Um, and we have some about 20,000 saved

and 25,000 invested. But I do have a

dream to go back to school, but for me

it feels kind of like a setback in the, you know, debt savings plan. So, I wanted to get your advice cuz we also want to buy a house. We're renting right now. So, I wanted to get your advice on what you think the next steps would be and what you guys feel is a good idea when it comes to going back into debt for school. Um, if I do have a stable career that I could grow in right now.

>> Well, I would never go back into debt for school. I'm all for you considering furthering your education if you were paying cash for it, but you've come so so far. Why would you consider debt again? What does it cost?

>> So, it would cost around 50,000. And I

agree with you. I I don't like the idea of going into debt for school, but for what I want to do, I would need a license. And so, I would need to get my degree in that field, >> right? But can we cash flow it?

>> Can we cash flow it?

Is this a two-year deal? How many years of school is is this?

>> This would be more around three years.

>> Three years. Okay. So, let's let's reverse engineer it and figure out, okay, what is it going to cost per semester? What will it take for us to

make that happen? Cuz remember there before you were taking all of your margin and throwing it at debt. What stops you from taking all of your margin and throwing it at tuition?

>> Yeah, that's a good question. So, I'm trying to figure that out. I kind of wanted >> um together combined around 165,000 a

year. >> That's an amazing income. Okay. And what do you what do you personally make?

>> I make 65,000.

>> Okay. And you want to spend 50 grand on this program to get licensed to do what?

>> Uh to be a counselor.

>> Okay. Are you in the field right now, but you're not a counselor because you need the masters?

Correct. >> Okay. Have you looked at every single option at your disposal for what the most affordable route to go is?

>> I have. Yes, I've done a lot of research. Um, but I also want to go to a school that has a certain accreditation

so that I can be certified in multiple states. Um, but I've also looked at

working for a school where I could get it paid for, but I haven't gotten a job in that situation. So, I'm still

browsing. I just feel like there's cheaper alternatives that can get you to the stream faster and without debt.

That's what I'm all about. Cuz the truth is never ask the counselor, hey, what school did you go to? What was the accreditation level? >> You know, so I understand that you want certain licensing and all that, but I I just I don't want you to overindex on the importance of the school that you go to. >> I want you to overindex on living a debt-free life so that you don't regret this later on.

>> Because how much will you make as a counselor at that point? Will you go from 65 to 75? What's the what's the

upside here initially?

>> So, that depends. Um, if I wanted to do a private practice, which would take a little bit more time, um, I could be making anywhere from 100 to 200, but I also in my career right now could probably grow into that as well, but I also want to start a family, so I don't know if it's worth it to go to school for that. Um, >> yeah. What happens if you go 50 grand into debt, get pregnant, have the baby, buy a house, and now you're like, I want to stay home.

>> You see what our fear is? Like I'm looking at your whole life and not just this one piece. And so I would sit down and go, we can't do all this at once. We can't start the family, get the house, go to school.

We got to figure out the priorities here. And if that's going to school, then we're going to put all the all the, you know, ammo towards that and cash flow it and get the job and increase the income. But if it's not going to increase the income initially, I don't know that it's worth it right now. I might wait to see.

Let's get the home. That's really the goal. Let's start a family. That's the goal.

>> Yeah, that's good advice.

>> But I think you've got the right heart for it. I think you'd be a wonderful counselor just based on talking to you.

So >> Oh, thank you. >> Best of luck, Madison. >> Appreciate it. >> Yeah, >> this is so real, Jade. Sorry Madison,

but I just this is a real thing. Like there's there's nothing childish or immature about this. This is the stage of life where you could do a lot of things. You want to do a lot of things and you can't do it all at once.

>> Yeah. A few Yeah. A few people could do it all at once financially or even time like bandwidth wise. It's a lot to buy a house and move in and have a baby and go back to school.

Yeah. That's a lot. Got to pick. >> I would focus it.

So if you've got the margin right now, you have a great income. 165 grand debtree. That goes a long way. >> They could cash flow it, by the way.

I mean, when you think about $8,000 per semester on their income, they could make that happen. >> I mean, they could probably right now throw five grand into a savings account after all expenses are paid and have 60 grand in within 12 months. >> Yeah, >> that's the math of it. So, we're talking about, you know, even 8 months from now, you could start the program and cash flow the rest of it.

>> And so, I would crunch the numbers in the budget and go, "Okay, this is what life would look like if we pursued this right now. Now, we could put this toward a down payment instead. here's what that would look like to get into a home sooner. >> But I think doing it all at once is where people get trapped.

>> Yeah. >> Because then you're you're stuck. You're stuck with the student loan payment. You're stuck with the mortgage payment.

And now staying home, it's it's an emotional choice, but the financial piece just doesn't work.

they're going to feel. Like you think, "Oh, I think I'm going to want to work." And then you end up not wanting to work. Or you think, "Oh, I want to be a stay-at-home mom." Then you're a stay at home mom. were like, I got to get back to work.

>> I need to be around grown adults and be able to use the bathroom. That would be nice. Yeah. No, my wife, she dealt with that.

She was here at Ramsey for 9 years.

She went, I got to I got to be home. But we wanted to at least try and financial peace gave us >> those options to go, hey, we're debtree.

You can do what you want. We don't have a mortgage payment. You want to stay home. Let's do it. So, she's she's thriving in the chaos right now. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Stephanie is in South Dakota up next.

What's going on Stephanie?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I've been married for about nine years and I've always had a job that I was able to adjust to my kids schedule and my husband's schedule. Um, recently I decided to go back to school to advance my career. And my husband got injured, so he hasn't been working for 6 months.

And I got a second job that more aligns with school and my new career. So, my husband's about to go back to work and he informed me that he's expecting me to go back to my original field and work

around him essentially. How do I have that conversation with him that I hope that his new job can kind of correspond

with what I want to do in the future?

>> Wow, that's interesting. Was is is his

request income based? Were you making more at the other job?

No, he actually wants to quit his job and find a brand new field. He's for what he says he's inspired by me.

>> Okay, so you're both on your Eat, Pray, Love journey here, trying to find your dream job, but we got to pay the bills as well. So, where are we at financially?

>> Financially, we are pretty much just keeping our head above water. I'm on baby step one. >> Sounds like not a great time to eat, pray, love. Would you agree with me?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, how much debt do you guys have? I would say probably well I just started school so I'm in my first semester that one with everything I say about 25,000.

>> All right. Is that total debt between the two of you? >> Yes, we we're renters. We only have car payments and credit cards. >> Okay. And how much are you making currently? >> Um I make about 45.

>> Is that with both jobs?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And how much does the main job make? Uh, close to 70.

>> What happened to the 45? I'm confused now. >> I'm sorry. I make 45. He makes close to 70. >> Oh, he makes from what he tells me.

>> I thought he wasn't at back at work yet.

>> Um, he just started getting workers compensation. So, it's kind of evening out. That's how I got to baby step one.

But he what he wants to do is he wants to he's on a manager level. He wants to step down from being a manager, >> which would I don't know what exactly he wants to do, but it won't be nowhere near what he's making now. >> And that's his dream.

>> I I I I guess so. >> Or is the dream a different field because the manager life stresses him out. So right now he's wanting to downshift, but long term he wants something different. >> Yes. That I need to support him and have

an open schedule so he can find himself.

>> But how can you? Because when George said, "What does he want to do?" You said, "I don't even I don't know what he wants to do." How can you support something if you don't know exactly what it is? So, that's my thing.

>> Yes. The closest thing I got was that he wants to go back to school and be a barber. >> Okay. Well, that's pretty clear. He wants to go back to school, be a barber.

He wants to be own his own shop >> or Okay. And has he put in any numbers

or timeline or anything around that?

>> Uh, not really. Um, it kind of scares me though cuz with my tooling, I know like the first five years is like you don't really see a profit. Yeah.

>> And >> well, you're probably renting a chair at first. You know, he's not just going to start a shop out of nowhere and be making bank. It's going to take time to build that up. >> And what's your dream? So, right now, you're in this career making 45. Is that the dream career that you're doing now?

>> I'm staying in the healthc care field, but I'm making a little bit of switch with the degree I'm going for, medical administration. I should be able to have more opportunities.

>> What does that mean?

>> Um, like right now I'm a CNA. So to move up, I will have to get some KONet license. With the new with the degree, I can work as a scheduler. My dream is to be a nursing home administrator.

>> Okay. And how >> anywhere be >> Go ahead. >> Uh anywhere between that, I'll be making way more than I'm making as a CNA.

>> How much is way more?

>> Um nursing home administrator start at 90 I think about 90K.

>> And what's the timeline on yours?

um about to get my degree three more

years and then six months training and then I can go into the field.

>> Okay. So your dream is a three year and six month journey and how much does it cost?

>> Alto together I'm

after student loans I should have probably an extra 30 in in um debt.

>> So you're saying you would have to go into debt to do this?

>> Yes. on top of your 25. You're saying you would add to the 25 in debt, you'd add another 30 to finish the program?

>> Yes. >> Does his require in his mind, does his dream require debt?

>> He sees as no, but uh barber school does cost uh I believe for my school 7,000 uh

7,000 and up depending where he goes.

>> Okay. So, his schools cost 7,000 and up.

What does your school cost? Did you say 30,000? >> Yes. >> Okay.

So, here's what I'm thinking about. I'm I'll be honest. I don't like the way he framed it. It kind And I don't know if he's framed it like that or you framed it like that, but it kind of felt like his thing is more important than your thing.

And yeah, that would rub me the wrong way too if it really came out like that. Um, but when I'm just sitting here looking at the numbers and the timeline and the risk on this, I'm going to tell you what I see and George hit me.

business and going into hair industry. I feel like it's it takes a lot of time to get that margin to start making money.

However, his so I'm gonna say that his is more risky, but I'm gonna say that his is cheaper and has a shorter timeline. >> And then for yours, I'm gonna say it's more straight ahead. Like you get the certification, you get the job, you get the salary, right? It's pretty straight ahead. So on the actual landing of the

job, there's less risk, but the problem is yours is very expensive and you can't go into debt for this and it's a longer timeline. So, you guys have to decide,

is it even possible in the state that you're in to be able to cash flow what you're trying to do >> because if you can, I might go your route.

>> Well, as of right now, um, they put my student loans. I don't have to pay until after I graduate. However, I'm still making payments on it. So, and I'm also

doing three4s of a full-time. So, I'm

I'm not I'm not hitting that. They have

uh it's a junior college, so I'm not hitting that top tuition. I'm trying to save money while I'm doing it. >> But you still can't go into debt at your old job, the job that he wants you to go back to. What were you making on that job? >> Uh by that one by itself 30k.

>> I thought it was I thought that was the better job. >> Uh that one was better because >> just for time. >> The Yes, the flexibility.

>> Ah, >> okay. Well, here's the thing. a starting barber probably going to make 15 to 20 bucks an hour. He's probably gonna make 35k a year instead of 70. And so this

dream needs to make sense. And for that to make sense, you guys need to be in a much better place financially. So leaving this whole situation with 55,000 in debt and cutting your income in half while you still have years of schooling to go before your income goes up is a recipe for disaster. Do you agree?

>> Yes. So, we need to just delay the dream right now, clean up our financial mess, and try to avoid going into further debt. So, if you can cash flow your whole schooling and pay off your debt, then we can focus on his dream. And we can cash flow seven grand easily, 10 grand, and and get done with barber school. And then he can take a pay cut for a temporary time and you'll be okay cuz you're making 90 grand with no debt.

>> He has the freedom, right?

>> Okay. But please, the number one takeaway, you cannot go into debt for this degree. If you go into debt for this degree, it is going to put such a strain on all of this. And not you going

like especially you going your going first and adding that debt is going to make it even harder for him to get to his dream. So please do >> you'll be dragging each other down if you do it this way. And that's our fear.

We want to see you guys work jobs you enjoy. So much so we're going to gift to you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assessment.

I think both of you should take it and make sure that whatever field you end up in, there's no regrets. So, hang on the line, Stephanie. We're going to make sure you get those resources from our friend Ken Coleman.

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Patricia is in Atlanta up next.

Patricia, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> Well, I am an 82year-old widow and my

husband was a mattress saver.

>> Oh, wow. >> He saved money. Yeah. Money under the mattress. >> Okay. >> Wow. >> And I've got I've got this hunk of money and I I don't think there's anything I can do with it. I'm afraid to try to do something with it. >> How much?

>> Uh it's over 100,000.

>> Wow. How long was he saving that for?

>> 25 years.

>> Okay. >> Is that your only money or is there other money? Is there any money in the bank?

I have about 400 in CDs and I I bought

my house cash and it's about 425 now on

a paid off car. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> But uh I got 1,400 in social security

which is income, you know.

>> And is that all you're living on?

>> I'm sorry.

>> The 1400. Do you live solely on the 1400

social security? I I I do my best.

>> Wow, >> that feels tight.

>> That's >> What are your expenses every month?

>> Oh, um just the regular utilities and

homeowners insurance, car insurance, that type of thing, you know, just the regular dayto-day expenses that a person has. I don't eat much. What?

>> Now, can I just clarify? When you said 400 in CDs, $400,

not 400,000. >> 400,000. >> 400,000. >> Okay. 400,000. >> Is that essentially your your nest egg just in case break in case of emergency?

What are you using that for?

>> I'm I just afraid to spend it that I'll

run out of money before I not here any

longer. >> So, you want to deposit the hundred in cash. What's What's the question?

The question is I've asked other people

and they say if you try to just take this big chunk of money and put it in

the bank or buy something with it, the Internal Revenue is going to come and say where in the world did you get this $100,000 in cash?

>> I mean, I don't think they're going to take you into a me, you know, a room and interrogate you. The bank legally just has to file a report. Anything over 10 grand, they just have to file a report saying that you deposited the money.

They might ask you, you know, the source of the funds. You can say, "My husband, you know, saved cash in a safe for years." >> Mhm. I'll be honest, >> it's not illegal. >> I care more about the 400k in CDs than I do about the 100K in cash. I'd love to see you invest that 400K. That way, if you want to draw a little off of it, you can, and you don't have to worry about it depleting.

Well, the only thing with that is I don't know anything about stocks or anything or uh money market accounts or what, you know, all those other >> What if you had someone What if you had someone who you could interview and then help you with that?

>> Well, I probably would listen to them and see what they had to say for sure.

>> Yeah, I think it having a Smart Ver pro would be would be good for you. And these are people that we vet and we make sure that you know they're good and that they can teach you and help you to feel good and understand, hey, this is what it is and you feel good about the investment. It's not them just taking the wheel and doing everything for you, but it's you making sure you have skin in the game, understanding it, approving what's taking place.

you can live off more and they can run the numbers for you and show you, hey, this is a conservative take on what you could withdraw from this without it depleting in the next 5 or 10 years. And so they can show you all the math. They're not going to put you in some risky single stock or crypto or something that you're not comfortable with. You stay in the driver's seat, but they're just educating you on what your options are and then you make the choice.

So that's what I would do.

>> What you could buy with 100k back in the day versus today it's different. And so you need that money at least growing at the speed of inflation ideally more to beat it. And so that's what we're advocating for.

>> Okay. That sounds interesting.

>> Head down to the bank with your with your winnings. >> Mhm. I think they'll have a good laugh if you say, "Well, my husband was a mattress saver." They'll go, "Yep, we've seen one of these today." You know, >> can you imagine? >> That's right.

>> Stuffing a suitcase with a h 100,000 and just heading down to the bank and you just stuff your duffel bag and just head on down. >> I got to know, you know, was this mattress lopsided with all this cash underneath it? >> I'm hoping it was in a safe or something. That's ideal.

But >> even still, the fact that you got to get into your car and drive with 100,000 on your person. I would I might have an armored vehicle for that.

>> Good luck, Patricia. Be safe out there.

Britney is in Idaho up next. What's going on, Britney?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm trying to figure out what to do with my car. I owe about $12,600

on it. It's valued at $5 to $6,000

according to Kelly Blue Book. It needs some repairs currently, about $2,500.

And at this point, should I voluntarily surrender the car back to a lender or keep pushing through and pay it off and get it fixed? >> What do you make?

>> I make about 4,200 a year.

>> 42,000? You mean?

>> 42,000? Yeah. >> Okay. You scared me. I was like, uh, goodness gracious, Britney. What's going on in your life? You're making $2 an hour out there. Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. So, this car, you're underwater on it severely. You don't have the money to do the repairs. And I

I've never suggested a voluntary repo because here's the problem. They're going to sell it at auction and still come after you for the difference. So, you're better off selling the car for what you can get for it and getting a personal loan from your credit union because you're it's not going to really release you from your situation here.

Okay. >> So, how much money do you have right now?

>> Saved. I have about 3500. I'm on baby

step number two and the car is my last debt. >> Okay. So, you have the money to do the repair, but it it feels like is this worth it? Is that your issue here?

>> Yes.

>> Well, there's two options. One is you do

the repair, you eat the cost, and hopefully the car runs for the foreseeable future and you pay it off.

That would be nice, right? That would solve the problem.

>> Mhm. >> How quickly could you pay off the remainder 12 grand? If you did the repair and then started knocking out the 12 grand, >> I am permanently disabled, so I'm limited with my funds. Um, paying my

monthly car payment is the only amount I can pay. So you can only make the payment and nothing more. You can't put extra on it.

So which means this is going to keep dragging out. You're going to continually be more and more underwater as the loan probably balloons.

>> Correct. >> Tell us about the car. Is it prone to

issues? Has it just been having issue after issue or is just this just popped up and you're like, "Dang it." >> No, this is the first issue I had since I owned it. It's a timing belt that's going out. I I've been told if I keep driving it, it if it breaks, it'll affect the engine. >> But I've been advised not to drive it, even though I still drive it a little

bit every now and then.

>> Um I don't drive a lot, so it's been working for me, >> but I'm worried that if I keep risking it, I could push my luck.

>> Yeah. >> Have you gotten other uh repair quotes from other mechanics?

>> I have. The 2500 is the cheapest I found. I've went to three different places. >> Now, if you if you did the 2500 in repairs, could you sell it for more?

>> Um, with the repair with a fixed, it's

it's going to be about 5 to 6,000.

>> Okay. M >> and so let's pretend let's so if you if

you took 2500 out of your saved money

paid this off at what rate or I'm sorry

took that money and repaired the car the car is driving at what rate would it take you with the income you have nothing extra to pay off the I mean what's remaining on the loan as far as time >> um that's a good question I'm not quite

sure I know I owe 12,600 less

and I pay about $400 a month.

>> Have you tried going to your local credit union and seeing if they would give you a loan for the difference to at least get out from under this?

>> I haven't I don't have the best of credit. I had a lot of medical issues

when I became permanently disabled and it messed up my credit.

>> That's one angle you can try and then use your savings to get you a beater car to get by for now. But there's still bigger problems to solve here. And that's going to take getting the income up and getting rid of this debt. It's going to be a journey.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." Or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens >> and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, George. I'm hearing something very crazy about your social media.

>> Tell me more. >> I happened to pop on there and I saw you had a view a video with 14 million

views. >> Yeah, it got out of control. We >> That's wild. >> So, we did a man on the street.

I love getting in the streets, getting in people's business, asking them questions about finances. and we happened to be in Orlando recently and I said, "Let's go to Disney." >> So, we went to Disney Springs and we asked people how much debt they had and our team just clipped that on social media and it blew up with a lot of feelings. >> I'm sure. >> And so, I wanted to get your feelings about it and react to it in real time if you're willing >> cuz there's some trigger words in here that I think you'll have some thoughts on.

>> I'll be honest. Is it weird to you that I saw like the little icon on social and I saw the views but I didn't actually watch the video? >> It's hurtful but understandable. You're a busy woman.

You don't have time to watch all my content. >> Okay, I'll watch it. I'll watch it.

See what they have to say. Are you guys in any kind of debt right now? >> Mine's pretty minimal, I think. Uh, credit card and a vehicle. Um, probably about 60. >> And that's minimal to you? >> No, it's a lot. >> What's left on the car loan? >> 53. >> What are you driving? >> A 24 Toyota Tundra.

>> How about you? How much debt do you have? >> Probably 75,000. Credit cards and then a

car loan as well.

>> Student loans. Yeah, like 60.

>> 60. What are you driving? You rolled over negative equity, didn't you?

>> Yes, I did. Yes. Honda Pilot 25.

>> What's your car payment? >> 1,200.

>> How much your car payment? >> 9.82.

>> I mean, you're just giving away the income every month at this point, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How much student loans we have left? >> I probably have 100,000 in student loans. >> Okay. Add it all up in your head. I think we're doing this for the first time. How much debt do you have total?

Total total? I'm going to say at least 180 grand. >> Can you tell me uh did you guys pay cash for the trip >> for half of it? >> The other half is on what? >> A Disney card. >> The Disney credit card. What do you get for putting it on the Disney card versus any old other card? >> It has uh 6 months special financing. So there's no interest for like 6 months.

>> Okay. So is your plan to pay it off in 6 months? >> The plan. >> That is the plan if we can do that for sure. Yeah. >> That doesn't instill confidence. You're like if we cuz otherwise it's going to like crank up to what 29% APR or something crazy, >> right? Yeah, absolutely. >> Do you guys have any debt right now?

>> Yes. >> How much? >> My student loans um they're about uh

100,000. >> What was your degree? >> Business administration. >> How much total do you have in debt? >> Probably around 128,000 I'd say total.

>> Do you ever feel like I'll just die with the debt? Like what's is there a game plan to be like I'm going to pay this off in 3 years or is just kind of like I'll make my payments? It's going to be probably in about 15 years. I'm assuming I'll get it paid off. I don't know.

>> How old are you now? >> I'm 22, >> man. Oh, man. Oh, man.

>> So much to unpack. And that was just a minute 49. The video is 15 minutes. If you want to watch the whole thing on my YouTube channel, George Camel, we'll put a link in the show notes.

>> More juicy stuff where that came from, including a guy who was uh, let's say, under the influence when he took out a car loan. >> W Oh, wow. I You would Wow.

>> Yeah. The interest wasn't the only thing that was sky-high that day. Listen, I'd rather be able to blame it on that than me being in my right mind going into $60,000 of debt and a $1,200 payment on a Honda Pilot, George, of all things.

>> So, there's a few things I want to point out that were said. So, number one, uh,

the justification language. Well, it's minimal. Well, it's 0%. Well, we were forced. We had to, right? There's all the justification language that we hear on the show. I hear it in the streets.

And I don't know if it's people, you know, there's some shame and guilt around it, understandably. So, you make yourself feel better by saying, "Well, it's only 20 grand." >> Right. Right. >> You know, those words bother me cuz I want them to feel the weight of it. And I think you're deflecting when you say, "Well, it's minimal. It's only It's 0%." >> You make it seem like your back was against the wall and you had no other choice. And I'm like, here's my thing.

If you were going to go into debt, did it have to be 60,000? There's plenty of great $30,000 cars out there. I'm just saying >> that is true. And then the other part the other part that shocked me was I'm like I'm the first guy making you do the math on what you actually owe. So I ruined a lot of uh Disney dream. Yeah.

The comment section. I didn't realize this but they're like these people are out here trying to have a good time and George is ruining their day.

>> The guy in the poncho when you told him that his interest was going to crank up to 26%. Did you see his eyes? Like the look in his eyes? >> There was a sadness. I don't know if it's because just a grown man in a poncho at Disney is just a sad sight anyways. Yeah. >> But the fact that he was like, "Yeah, I mean I I hope we can pay it off." Like he did a thousandy stare.

>> Yeah. >> Into another life he's dreaming. >> It brought him into, you know,

>> Hello Darkness, my old friend.

>> So, there was a lot going on there. And it was also frightening to see how much crippling debt people are in. And they're just adding to the pile with a little Disney trip. And I asked people how much their Disney trip cost. Jade. I did not know. All right. Call me ignorant. I didn't know. It was It's $1,000 a day per person to breathe.

>> Yes. >> In Disney. >> Yes. >> And this is not a knock against Disney.

It's a wonderful experience. >> It's magical. I love Disney.

>> But the idea that you're going to go another six grand into debt or put it on the Disney credit card because they've convinced you this is the smart way to pay. >> It boggles my mind cuz they're going to add that to the payment when they get home. On top of their $1,200 car payment, they got a Disney credit card payment to make. How can you even enjoy it in the moment knowing that?

>> I'm like, I can't be the one ruining your enjoyment. Your decisions have already ruined the enjoyment. >> It's like eating a meal knowing you're going to get food poisoning.

>> Oh, that's a great analogy.

>> How can you enjoy it knowing what what

is the future holds for >> going to be held to pay on the other side of this? But I'm going to enjoy this queso right now. >> Oh lord, why do I have to be queso?

>> Sorry, I don't want to throw queso under the bus. Goodness gracious. So, I encourage everybody to uh to watch that video and if nothing else, I know why people watch to make themselves feel better about their financial situation.

>> Yes. >> That's like, you know, entry to your Ramsay. That's why you watch the show.

>> Yeah. You can look at I hope you go, you know what? This makes me want to fix my situation. >> I hope so. >> And then third, you actually do this stuff and you want to send it to people to see this is why the Ramsay plan is so important, >> you know? >> So, >> wow. Well done, George. This is why I go into the streets, you know, in the rain with the umbrella.

>> I really sacrificed for the content that day, but it paid off. So, thank you to everyone who's watched it, shared it.

And just know my heart is not to shame people. My heart is to bring some

awareness, some, you know, some people are problem unaware. They don't know how bad their debt is. They don't know it's a problem. They just think it's normal to have payments. So, the more we can shed a light on debt and say this is not normal. Mhm. >> And if it is normal, we need to run the other direction. >> That is the hope that we h we have for making content like this. >> Good job, George. I think you did just that. >> Okay, let's go to Isaiah in Detroit up

next. What's going on, Isaiah?

>> How's it going? Um, I was just here. Let

me tell you guys a little bit about my situation. So, I'm 18 years old. I just graduated last year and during the school year, I started a mobile car detailing business. I've been in it about eight months and so far I've been doing it part-time like with school and work and I made about $3,000 from the business.

And now that I've graduated high school and entered college, I realized that I want to learn more about business through actually doing it.

different business that doesn't really have to do with car detailing, but >> they are the closest mentor I would have. and I wanted to go down there and move in with them and they said I could stay there for a few months while I get up and running in the area. I currently have about $25,000 saved and my budget

for the move is $8,000 to get a car and the equipment and everything I need, but my family thinks that it's super risky >> and like I've completely lost my mind.

>> So, you're you're doing this with cash.

You have no debt. There's an established business that's gonna pay you when you arrive.

>> And so I would have to I'm so

>> there's no job, right?

>> They're not paying you to work in their business. >> They'll just mentor you, but you can get a job.

>> Yeah. >> And you're willing to get any old job while trying to get your own business off the ground.

>> Yeah. 100%. >> I actually really like this. I think that school will be there. It's not going anywhere. college like what were you going to college for anyway?

>> I was going to college for business management. >> Yeah. I mean that degree is going to be there. I love on the job training. Like I love the idea that somebody would mentor you who's starting a business.

Are they successful this person or is this their first go round too?

>> Yeah, they are. They are pretty successful. They rent out um beach supplies and they've been doing that for a good couple years and have made a lot of money. Huh?

Yeah, I like the idea, >> man. 18 single. I think this is one of the least risky things you could do. And I would advise you to do it cuz worst case you come back home.

The key is don't go into debt for anything. Not for equipment, not for a degree. Cash flow every next move and then follow that path that it takes you as you cash flow this amazing business. I think it's a great business idea.

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or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Jessica is in San Antonio up next. What's going on, Jessica?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, so my significant other and I are planning to get married and he currently pays child support and alimony from his previous marriage. Um, and I know once we're married, the money and debt becomes ours, but I'm not sure how to handle those payments, like specifically the alimony. Mhm.

>> So my question is had that should that come out of our joint budget? Should that say his individual responsibility?

>> Um yeah, >> what's the uh the parameter? How much and for how long?

>> Uh 300,000 until paid off.

>> Wow.

>> It's a lot of money.

Um, there's part of this where,

you know, I'm always going to be for combining finances and

>> taking on whatever the other person has in the form of debt and everything else.

And in many ways, this kind of is that, right? Because >> you're getting into this uh situation together.

>> I'm thinking through this and yeah, I think I would it would be ours, the child's work. Otherwise,

>> here's how >> I feel like there would be separation there. >> Here's how I'm viewing it, and you can tell me what you think, Jessica. I'm almost viewing it as a deduction before his take-home pay. So, like you pay for healthcare out of your paycheck, your 401k. So, if you just sort of took that out and then had his new take-home pay, which is the lower amount post alimony, that becomes our money.

>> I think that helps me frame it up differently >> mentally. I like that >> to where it's it is coming from his income, but there's still this pool that's our money, but we're just not going to see that money because it's not your money. It's it has an allocation legally of where it needs to go right now. >> And it's not forever. And so this will change and it'll feel like you get a raise, I guess, when that day comes when that 300 grand is paid off.

>> But either way, it's going to affect your world because it's $300,000 that would have been part of you all's budget. That's not part of you all's budget. >> Is it a set monthly amount?

>> No, not set. >> Is it variable? because his income is variable or how does that what's the agreement there? >> Yeah, variable income, quarterly bonuses. Um, yes. So, he just pays it

when he can and um I know we recently moved in together and I do all lot him a

specific amount to help cover the mortgage um even though we're not married um and I know he did raise his

alimony um at the same time. So, I know he's he's trying to get that paid off as

soon as he can. Um, but >> so when will you guys be married?

>> No set date yet because I am trying to logistically figure this out.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, this is kind of what's hold is this what's holding you back then?

>> Uh, yes.

>> I could see that. >> Yeah. >> What will you guys be making when you're once you're married? And then what will your debt load be outside of this alimony? >> Um, so I don't know his exact take-home.

I know what he brings in um after taxes and stuff, but I would

probably say, oh gosh, almost 400, 350

to 400 I believe. >> That's awesome. >> a year. >> And any debt to speak of?

>> Um >> outside of the mortgage and the alimony.

>> Um so his mortgage, full loan, uh car

loan, and then unfortunately I've been through the baby steps, but I um had to buy a car. So, just a small amount for me, but I'm actively going back around.

So, >> so his mortgage is the plan that What's the plan with the mortgage?

>> Will will you guys move into that house?

Will he sell it and you guys move somewhere else? Cuz I'm almost wondering if he can take >> when that day comes if he can sell off

an asset in order to get this done.

>> Yes, I know he mentions that. That is his plan. I currently did move in with him and our plan is to sell the house he's currently in that we live in. Um, finish paying what he owes to her and then us purchase a new home together.

>> Okay. >> Well, that feels like a solution there.

>> Yeah, I was kind of looking at it like if this was just a giant consumer debt, we'd go, "All right, we'll just tackle it with whatever your income is because the sooner that's gone, the sooner you free up that money." Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So, I think that's a good plan, and I think it will unify you guys as a couple as well to just go, "All right, this isn't how we either of us pictured it, but we have a 300,000 debt we need to pay off on top of our car loan and credit cards." And I hope it gives you some onus to get rid of your own debts faster because the sooner you're on the other side of all of this, the more wealth you're going to build together and the more options you're going to have.

>> Yes. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you.

>> Yeah, absolutely. That that's a tough question. It is. It's a lot intertwined in there.

>> I kind of feel like they did complicate it a little bit by moving by her already moving into there. >> Came towards the mortgage, which is more complication. So, I don't love that part. It's only going to add insult to injury >> because she could have sat back in her own apartment and said, "Hey, like you've got this $300,000 debt.

Why don't you sell off something and and clean it up?" Like, but now since they're both in that house. >> Yeah. Anyway, >> thanks for the question. Mary Kate is in Phoenix up next.

What's going on, Mary Kate? >> Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely.

>> So, this is a an interesting one. I just started listening to the show a couple weeks ago. So, I literally just started um like going through my debt, starting to pay off my debt. I paid off my car um which was the first kind of lowest debt that I had.

Got into a car accident last night and totaled my car. >> Oh my goodness. Um, so yeah, that was a Are you okay? Kind of a bit of a surprise.

Oh, totally fine. Yeah, thankfully wasn't the at fault driver, but you know, bummed that I just paid off my car and and uh and I just got totaled. So >> curious to hear what you guys think about this. I kind of know where I'm guessing I know where you're going to lean, but um don't have the money to to pay for a car out, you know, out outright right now.

um to to buy a car and then wait for the payoff for my insurance company, which is probably going to be between 30 to $40,000 and then just chuck that at the debt. Make sure I don't go like don't finance a car for more than that amount.

Um, so >> well, how long until they write you a $35,000 check?

>> Yeah, that's what I don't know. I'm getting >> And will they provide a rental car in the meantime? >> That's my question. >> Um, yeah, I think they will. Um, I can I

can also pay for that out of pocket and then get reimbursed for that. It's probably going to take about a week until I could get a rental car. Um, but I, you know, I kind of need one right now.

>> Why would it take a week to get the rental car?

>> Uh, from what I understand, I've never been in an accident before, so this is all very new to me, but from what I understand, um, the insurance company needs to wait for liability to be confirmed from the police report and things of that nature. Well, could you rent one on your own dollar for that week or whatever and then switch to theirs? That's probably what I would do.

I would not go into debt on a car >> and, you know, have have have the be at

the mercy of the insurance on a car payment that's got interest that's acrewing and everything like that.

>> Sure. Okay. >> So, you've already filed the claim the that night? >> Yep. >> Okay. Has the adjuster inspected? >> They did last night.

>> Uh, they're they're inspecting it today or tomorrow. Um they they they towed it

to like a like the the car body shop and

they should be expecting it today or tomorrow. >> Okay. Because I'm thinking mo most people will get that insurance check in about 7 days. So I don't think it's going to be a super long time.

I would just get whatever rental you can right now. And I would also check with them before you do any of this. Say, "Hey, I need a car right now. What are my what are my best options?" And make sure that you know exactly what the amount is they'll reimburse, how soon, all of that.

Get all the facts. But I would not go jump into, you know, go to the dealership and say, "Hey, I need a brand new car." >> That's what most people do when they total their car. They go, "Woohoo! I won the lottery.

Time to go get a $50,000 car." >> More than the payout. >> And they say, "Well, I had to I had I had to get a new car. Total mine. What are you going to do?" And that's how we have, you know, a middle class America that's broken.

>> So, I hope that's not you. You've done so well that I'm like, why go backwards into debt even for a moment when you can avoid all of it? >> Okay. >> Okay.

So, wait to have that that payout in hand before I I do anything basically. >> Yes. >> And uh you know, get yourself as nice of a rental you can with the reimbursement they'll give you. >> I'm sorry that happened.

>> And thank you. And quick question on the the payout. Um that's not like a a taxable event or anything as long as I use it for the purchase of a new vehicle. Is that right?

>> Yes. Because you weren't like making money here. This was not a money-making scheme where you sold the car for more than it's worth. You know, insurance is valuing that car at what it what it was valued when you wrecked it.

So, nothing to worry about there.

go buy a car for $20,000 pocket for the

remaining >> and and if you have debt, I love that plan for you >> cuz if you had sold that car for 40 and use 20 of it to buy a car, that's your American right. And I would honestly do that if I were you if you've got other financial goals, other debts to pay off, it's only going to, you know, make your life simpler. And a 20,000 car will get you real far these days.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. Open phones at88255225.

Claude is in Orlando, Florida up next.

What's going on, Claude?

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> Okay, just uh long story short, I

I haven't paid um my IRS in several

years. Um basically, I got out of high school 0708. um kind of fell into a good

job uh working for foreclosure companies and started buying up foreclosures and kind of amassed about uh got about 267

doors uh rental but um it's all paid for

but I'm at the point I just bought a house um through private financing

but I would like to secure permanent financing but I haven't done uh my federal taxes in several years >> and they're going to want to see tax returns for you to get that financing?

>> Yes, sir. >> And this is the only reason you've decided I guess you should probably deal with that.

>> Um, it's >> Why haven't you filed?

>> I'm just uh kind of ignorant, I guess.

>> No, you're not. Ignorant people don't own 27 rentals. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> You're very successful.

>> So, what has caused you to just ignore the taxes completely? Because you filed taxes up until what year?

>> I think the last time was 16. and I did it. >> Okay. So, we're coming up on 10 years and nobody's knocked on your door yet.

You haven't gotten anything in the mail?

>> No, sir. I haven't I don't really on

paper, I guess, show making a bunch.

Most of that income's in cash >> and you've spent it. Do you have the money to pay all these back taxes, penalties, fees?

>> I don't have any idea what it would be.

Um, >> well, how much have you made in the last 10 years? I mean, I'm anywhere from

10,000 a month to 15,000 a month, just depending on I got a lot of irons in the fire. >> So, you're talking about making

>> 150 to 200 grand every year for the last decade.

>> Yeah. I mean, this uh slowly escalated

year to year. >> All right. I'm going to call it half a million. Just ballpark numbers.

>> How would you come up with half a million dollars to pay the IRS?

Um, it's a good question. I mean, I

figured up the other day before I got came on here, I I got about conservatively $4 million in real estate. >> Mhm. >> So, it sounds like if I were in your shoes, here's what I would do personally. Number one, I would get with an enrolled agent or CPA yesterday and start tracking down exactly what I need to do to get current.

Get on a payment plan and get this mess cleaned up. And then whatever that bill total is, if it's $500,000, I'm not even going to get on a payment plan. I'm going to liquidate enough properties that I knock this out. >> Mhm.

>> Okay.

>> You should report every dime you make.

Give to Caesars's what is Caesars. So, I know you want to avoid that.

>> I don't know if you're going to take my advice, but I don't want to I don't want the next phone call from Claude to be from a jail cell.

>> Yeah, >> that'd be ugly. >> Yeah. You got to do this with integrity, my guy. >> The last people you want on your back is the IRS. They can destroy your life.

>> I know that's right. >> And so I would not ignore this any longer. It's been almost a decade.

>> Um, >> what are you going to do next?

>> Um, I guess I need to go to a uh CPA.

>> That's right. And you're going to need to get with the IRS and get and figure out exactly what you owe. And they can help with that. But do not avoid. I know you deal with a lot of cash. I would get things on the books. I would have everything every eye dotted, every tea crossed.

>> Okay. >> And that might mean you need to hire someone to do the books. If you don't like doing it, you don't want to do it, I would hire someone who can do it.

>> The good news is you have the assets to clean this up very quickly.

>> Yeah. >> How much debt do you have otherwise?

Um, I mean, I've borrowed 165,000 on

that house, uh, from that private investor, but I mean, I've got I've been offered 275 for it like it is, but I

besides that, I'm I don't owe a dime.

>> All the 26 properties are free and clear. >> Yeah. >> So, could you sell one or two of those to knock out this IRS debt worst case? I

mean, I've been doing letting a few go, but the dam property taxes and other

unforeseen things are beating me up.

>> It just doesn't make sense. Why are you so tight on cash?

>> I mean, just >> if they're all paid for, they should be cash flowing beautifully. Are you just spending every single dime you get?

>> No, not Well, I've um Okay, so let's I

bought all these houses kind of cheap um several years ago. over the last several years and then I was just shoving people in them doing the minimum and so now I'm kind of paying the popper on that. Um so when they're coming open I'm spending a fair amount of money >> on repairs and maintenance and all that because you neglected to do it.

>> That's right.

>> Man, that's part of the business. I you know what? If this is too much for you to handle, I would liquidate a bunch of properties and just keep what you can actually manage and manage well.

>> Well, I mean it's my sole it's my main

income. Yeah, but if you liquidated the properties, you'd have something called money. And right now, it sounds like you're tight on cash flow for some reason because you're just bleeding out with 27 properties to manage. It's more expensive. >> Yeah. I mean, if if I got a few thousand bucks left over at the end of the month, I'm doing good.

>> I mean, I'm not >> I'm just confused for a guy who doesn't pay taxes and makes 15 grand a month, you shouldn't be this broke.

>> Well, I'm I'm at about 10 right now. I mean, if I got everything full, I'm at 15. out of 27 properties, you're only making 10 grand a month. They're all paid for. >> What kind of properties are these? >> I've got um well, it's definitely uh low

low income stuff like I mean I bought some of these things in in 09's about when I started buying. I mean I bought things for $5,000.

>> So you're making like a few hundred bucks off each one.

>> Um a few hundred. I mean I'm the bottom of the rent in my area is like 600 bucks.

600 to >> Okay. I'm just saying you have you have 27 properties and you make 10 grand off of those. That's 370 each on average.

>> Yeah. And I've got like five empty right now.

>> What would it look like if you sold a couple of these lowinccome properties and got some nicer properties where you can garner a higher, you know, a higher

rent and still pay for them fully in cash and then instead of having 26, maybe you have 10, right? Or maybe you have eight. >> They're higher quality. Higher quality tenants. Pay more. >> That's kind of what I've been doing. I just sold one last week for 55,000 that

I bought for 10. >> Uhhuh. >> But I paid 40,000 in property taxes.

>> Oh. What about the capital gains on those?

>> That's what I'm I don't I don't know.

>> Oh my goodness. So on top of your income, you could have a huge capital gains bill from all these investment properties that appreciated since 09 when you bought them for, you know, pennies on the dollar, >> right? But I've never depreciated any of them either.

>> Wow. You need I think you need help. I think you need somebody to help you with the the financial like the books on this

>> and help you to understand what it is that you're doing.

>> Yeah. Well, I also had a secretary that um was embezzling money too in the last >> Goodness gracious. >> Wow. I think I think the word for you in the new year if because I'm already talking about the new year is simplification. You need to simplify your life. >> You got a lot going on.

>> Yeah. >> But right now, you've just been ignoring it and it's just compounded and compounded and so now it feels so overwhelming. So, I would jump on to ramseyolutions.com, get in touch with a tax pro today, and

they're going to have their hands full with you. You might be their full-time client for the next few months as they uncover and turn over every stone that you have left to rot. So, goodness

gracious, Claude, I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but man, neglecting the problem is not going to make it go away, especially when it's the IRS. Wow.

>> Good luck.

Heat. Heat.

It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsay Show. And we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season. Maybe you've tipped a waiter, a waitress a hundred bucks, or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford one.

Maybe you've blessed someone in need by giving them a car, doing something outrageous. Maybe you've been on the receiving end and you had your life changed or affected by someone who gave generously to you. We want to hear those stories. Dave Ramsey and I will be doing that giving show and it's going to be a lot of fun.

and put giving in the subject line. We

do this every year at Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. Very heartwarming. Coming up December 18th.

So start sending in your stories of giving today and let's celebrate living like no one else so you can give like no one else. Sydney is in Columbus, Ohio up next. What's happening Sydney?

>> Hi guys. Um my husband and I are trying

to figure out how to uh financially approach our home. Uh we

were given lead orders by our state

health department. Uh we're mandated to hire a lead abatement specialist to uh

do some actually relatively minor work around our home. Um and it the bill is

going to be about $30,000.

>> O wow.

>> Yeah. Um we have five young kids, seven

and under. Um we definitely don't have

$30,000 laying around. Mhm.

>> Um and the state's giving us a year to

come up with the money, get it done, or

whenever they deem necessary. Um they

could force us to leave our home that we own. >> Mh. >> Um so we we could get a home equity

loan.

Um that's a kind of hefty payment, but

I'm not sure we really have any other options. >> What do you guys earn?

Uh my husband pre-tax was 58,000 last

year. >> And are you working outside the home?

>> No, I stay at home with the kids.

>> How many kids and how old are they?

>> Uh we have five kids. 7, five, three,

two, and six months old.

>> Oh my goodness. Now, are you needing to do a full abatement? Have you checked on that?

Um, I mean, we have the orders that the state gave us. There's, you know, a whole list of things >> that, you know, they give you what you need to fix and the control options to fix it, that sort of thing. >> Okay. And have you got multiple quotes?

>> Yes, they're all between 29 and 33,000.

>> So, I kind of run this backwards. I mean, if you said 30, that's right in the middle of the road. So, I'm thinking, okay, I have a year to do I have 12 months to do this. That's about $2,500 a month. What can we do to bring

that money in so that we can have this process started in time?

So, as it as it sits, after you guys' bill after your bills are paid, how much margin do you have to go towards your debt or whatever whatever your financial goals are right now?

>> Uh maybe a couple hundred a month.

>> Like a couple hundred like two or a couple hundred like five.

>> Uh maybe two. >> Okay. It's It's not a whole lot.

>> What does your husband do for work?

>> Uh he's a mechanic for a neighboring county for the highway engineering department. >> And if you what's your house worth if you were to sell it?

>> We have up up to well close to $200,000

in equity. And that's getting someone to buy it. >> Yeah. Is that with the lead? What is What would it be worth with this lead issue going on?

I mean, it's actually about $30,000 less. >> Okay. >> Um, but the problem is getting someone

that would be willing to buy it because the lead orders aren't with our name, they're with the address. So, whoever would buy it would have to they'd be in the same position that we are >> to hire a contractor and do the work, >> right? But you that would be an incentive that you would have in the sale like that would come from you. I that's what I would think >> you'd lower the cost by that amount knowing they're going to have to deal with it.

>> Uhhuh. That's why we said less 30,000 in the equity.

when we bought the house in 2021, we got a 4% interest rate and given the equity

that we have >> um it's not likely that we're going to find anything even remotely affordable

um with how interest rates are now.

>> Understood. But there's also you would have >> here's I I want to re reset where we're at. The problem is you need $30,000

>> and there's going to be limited options to get it and I'm taking debt off the table >> since you called in. I have to take debt off the table. I don't want you to go into debt. I don't want to make this worse on you.

So that means that we have to consider the options. And I'm not saying that that's the option you have to choose, but the options we have in front of us right now are what can we do that's going to find us $23 extra dollar per month. Is it something that you pick up in the night? Is it something that your husband does on the side?

Is there overtime? That's one option. Another option is, okay, we could sell this house and then take the money, park it in a high yield, maybe rent for a while or move into something smaller while we save up to buy something again.

That I mean, I have to say that this is emotional. We're talking about your home. We're talking about your family.

There's no side of this that is good or convenient or like it all sucks, right?

>> So, I'm just trying to give you options

that won't put you later in a suckier

position cuz that's what'll happen if we add debt to this.

>> When When was the house built?

>> Uh 1895.

>> You're serious?

>> Yes. Oh my god. It's an old farmhouse.

>> Okay. I just did it on a quick search.

Have you heard of the Ohio lead abatement tax credit program?

>> Yeah, our county didn't apply. That's that's a large part of our frustration is that all of those all the grants that are available for lead abatement are county by county and our county just

actually today confirmed um they didn't

apply because they didn't think it was worth it and now we're just out of luck >> and now it's too late. Wow.

>> Yeah. and they won't apply later either.

We've we've gone that route, too. We've contacted lawyers, we've contacted realtors, we've contacted state health department, local health department, county commissioner's office. >> Wow. >> Senator's office, state rep's office.

>> So, you've done your homework on that. >> Some form of assistance. Yeah.

>> The counties around us want to help us, but they're not allowed to give us any grant dollars. >> Yeah. Is there a world where you could work at night or your husband could take on a side job or do some extra mechanic work on the side to come up with this money?

>> I mean, that's pretty hit or miss. My husband's on call 24/7 for the county.

Um, so

he has to if he got a second job, it

would have to be under the understanding that he has to leave calls him.

>> So, it's kind of tough. And we live pretty rurally as well.

>> Yeah. Um, >> and what do you guys have in checking and savings right now?

>> Um, we have a little less than 300 or

$3,000 in savings that was supposed to

insulate our basement for the winter cuz it's pretty cold.

>> Um, and >> and is it safe to live in this house? Let's say you do stay for the year while you come up with the money. It's safe to live there.

>> Yes. H >> is there any way that you can file for some sort of extension or anything like that? I'm sure you've checked into that.

>> Yeah, the extensions, it's every 90 days up to a year. So, essentially our first deadline comes January 1st, but they'll give us the extensions up through September. Um after that, it's we're

really at the mercy of them. They can decide to make us leave whenever they want. And ultimately, if we can't afford the work, they can bulldoze our house that we own. >> That is so insane. >> Oh, I'm sorry. This is terrible.

>> This is like just rocking a hard place

a,000%.

If I were you, I would look into what it would be to actually sell. I don't think, you know, interest rates are now around 5 a.5%. And so, if you have four to five and a half, I don't know that it'll be a huge jump and it might get you out of the situation. And that's one option to look at if you can't increase the income cuz the problem is whatever the thing is a $10,000 emergency a 30,000 you guys are so tight right now and for the foreseeable future there's no end in sight.

So this is just a hard way to live um as you are finding out that home ownership is not cheap.

I would try to find any alternative living situation and or move out if you

can't come up with this money in the next year. I don't know that begging and pleading with the state is going to get you very far at this point. So sorry you guys are dealing with this.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Big news from our friend Jade Warshaw. Her new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is on pre-order right now. For $24.99, you get over a hundred bucks in free bonus items, including the enhanced audio book read by Jade herself. Early access to the ebook and instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade. Plus, she's doing a book club with a live Q&A. Who doesn't love a book club? It's for 3 weeks. You can get access to all of that when you pre-order today. Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Very exciting. All right, Tim is in Houston up next. What's going on, Tim?

Hi guys. Um just kind of a real quick question. Um so we've got a destination

wedding coming up in about six months

and best price it's about 2500 bucks

to go there hotel rent a car pet sitting

food and that sort of thing. Um,

however, right now it's not like we totally broke, which

we're not. But the the the problem is is

that I really don't think that this is a

a a good thing for us to do at that time. And I know that the people that invited their lifelong friends, love them to death, I know that they would be devastated.

>> Um, tell us more about your financial situation and why you think it's not a good time to spend this money.

>> Okay. It's it it kind of goes back about

oh, I guess about six years ago. Um,

I've been involved in aviation for a number of years and I saw a new technology pop up. I took it to my

company vice president and I said, "Hey, look, I'll get my commercial drone license. We'll do this, that, and the other." And I ended up spending probably

out of my own pocket because I I wanted to also do this as a as a profession

about 100 grand. And I went into debt about 40 grand on unsecured loans.

>> Mhm. And then the shutdown hit us

>> and I was out of work. I had to do engineering consulting on the side.

Fortunately, um God saw my dilemma and said, "Look,

I'm going to put you here as an engineering manager." And my wife who came alongside, she she

was she said, "We're going to buckle down. and I'm going to get hold of Ramsay's uh consulting group. And so we

brought a consultant on and about 6

months ago, we paid off all of our vehicles. We have two vehicles.

>> That's gone. Um all of our credit card

debt has been wiped out.

>> Great. >> We owe about we owe about a little under

$90,000 on our home. It's probably worth

$450. >> Okay. Um, >> and have you saved up any money yet?

>> That's the big thing. Um, so me

personally, I've had some health things

hit me. I had an accident. I had three surgeries, prostate cancer, blah blah blah. >> Gosh, I'm sorry.

>> I was almost blind in one eye and couldn't see out of the other one. So, I had to have cataract surgery.

>> Wow. >> Have you managed to stay debtree through all of that?

Um, well, my wife really likes to travel, so she's

also booked some vacations and we would

get ahead and then back.

>> So, where are you now? >> How much debt do you currently have and what do you guys currently make?

>> So, this is going to sound crazy.

>> Hit me. >> I bring home I bring home a little over

11,000 a month, which is pretty good

chunk of change. >> Yeah. What? Tell us how much debt you have. >> Well, right now we just paid off our

last vacation.

Um, we've had some things hit.

>> Bringing the total >> one word answer. How much debt do you have outside the mortgage? You have >> 90,000 $90,000 on our home.

>> That's it. No consumer debt.

>> No consumer debt. >> Okay. Okay. >> You were making it seem like, Tim, that you guys >> varying some bought Yeah. like you bought a theme park and you did all sorts of things. >> Can we agree we are not going to go into any more consumer debt for any reason?

>> Well, let me just say that we just took on a

$13,000 repair to our house, >> but I thought you said the only debt was 90,000. >> What do you mean took on? be. So, yes,

we did take that on and be about eight

It's going to be about 800 bucks a month out of our pocket. >> Tim, you just told us you had no debt.

>> Well, I'm sitting here looking at my notes. >> So, 13K 13,000 in debt and you have nothing in savings. >> No cars, no nothing.

>> That's it. >> Okay. And no money saved >> and very little saved. Now, we do have >> How much How much saved? >> Retirements. We do have retirement out there that we do we can't touch.

>> Yeah. How much cash? How much?

>> About 100. That's about 100,000.

>> Okay. >> We're trying to answer your question about this destination wedding. So, you have 13,000 left in consumer debt. You have nothing in savings.

>> We've got about five grand.

>> Five grand in savings. So, you could use four of that to attack the 13, bringing it down to nine. Then, how quickly making 11K? Your your wife isn't bringing in income right now.

Um there's some there's some things going. She's been doing consulting work and it's not a lot. I mean >> so let's pretend it's your 11K.

>> How much do you guys need to cover all the bills >> per month?

>> Um right now I mean I think I think

we're in pretty good shape. I told my wife no more vacations.

>> Yeah. >> Well, the thing is you guys aren't making a budget. this money is slipping through your fingers and you will go into debt willy-nilly on a whim cuz life is just happening to you. And so this is the part we need to get ahead of cuz truthfully there is a world where you can knock out your the rest of your 9K in debt if you do it our way.

You can build up an emergency fund and you could probably go on this wedding, go to the wedding, but I don't think you guys have it in you to follow a plan at this point >> unless you get on the same page and have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and go, "We make $11,000. Why are we going to debt for anything? I know it's that's what I said. It's crazy sounding and it is, >> but it's you guys.

It's you guys choosing and there's some behavior that has to start happening in order for you guys to write this ship. And that's that choice is yours. You know the plan. You know what the steps are.

You've done it before.

with this. >> Yeah. >> Could you scrape together $4,500 bucks a month, Tim? $4,500 a month out of your income to throw at the debt.

>> Oh, we we'll get this this um this

repair. We'll get it knocked out pretty quick. >> I'm asking you, can you do 4,500 a month? >> Um I don't know why we couldn't.

>> You tell me. Cuz so far we haven't been able to take 45.

>> It's It's because you haven't seen it on a budget. It's because you haven't seen it on a budget. >> If in two months you would knock out this debt. If you take 4,000 from your savings, throw it at the debt, you have nine left.

4,500 a month, you're done in two months. And then 4,500 a month after that, you'll have an emergency fund within three or four months and then one more paycheck and you can fund this whole destination wedding. So, I think the problem could be solved. I don't think you guys should go in the destination wedding.

I think your life is too chaotic right now. And I think your friends would understand after 19 surgeries and a lot going on. You take them out to a really nice dinner when they're back. Say, "Hey, we want to treat you to the real fancy dinner.

>> And where is the destination? Just curious. >> Uh, it's in Colorado.

>> Okay. Yeah, I think they'll be strong.

>> Well, you know, I know that there's there's there's a lot more to that whole scenario than than I would my wife's

daughters, the bridesmaid. It >> Listen, here's the thing. You could go out, and I don't know that you can with what you've been through, but maybe your wife could go out. You've got six months before this thing happens.

You could door dash and say, "I'm gonna door dash until I earn the $2,500 to take this trip. Then we'll go. It'll be debtree. It won't be part of our usual income." Sure, you could do that.

If these are family, friends, you know, I get it. I'm not going to try to make you miss out on a a huge moment if these are really special people in your lives. I I I'm not going to say that. But you have to go out and get the money.

And I don't know that you guys will do that. That's my that's my only caveat here. If you do this, somebody needs to go out and earn it. >> So the key is if you guys can get completely debtree with an emergency fund and save up for that destination wedding before it happens, then you have the green light to go on my part.

But at this point, the way you've been talking around things with lack of clarity, lack of a game plan for you and your wife, it just tells me this is going to take longer until we figure this out. So I hope you guys can get on it. I hope you can make it to the wedding.

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 7:2.

In the same way you judge others, you will be judged. And with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Mark

Twain said, "Good judgment comes from experience." And a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

>> That'll preach. >> That's great. >> That'll preach. The bad judgment leads to the experience, which hopefully, if you learn from it, leads to good judgment. >> That's wisdom. >> You got to learn from it. >> All right. David is in Tampa up next.

What's going on, David?

>> Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Thanks for everything y'all do. >> Absolutely. What's your question?

>> Um, so just a little background. I've been a longtime listener. Um, follow general principles, but I've been very Daveish recently. So, uh, just trying to

dive in and make some moves just after reevaluating some goals. So, um, I'm currently in school. I work full-time as well, so I've just been cash flowing school. I currently pay $1,000 a month, uh, towards the program, and then at the end, I could just pay off the balance in full. Um, so I've just been stacking cash um instead of working to pay off debt. I also have have debt that I'll talk about in a second, but um I have about 35,000 in savings and then the

rest of the schooling program is about three uh $30,000.

Um also I'm in few hundred,000 of

student loan debt. So, um, just trying to kickstart my journey right here and, uh, wanted to wanted to see if y'all recommend I just pay off the rest of my school balance and then that frees up my thousand a month to just contribute to paying my student loan or should I divvy it up, pay some of my school and pay pay some of the student loan.

>> Wow. What are you going to school for?

>> Nurse practitioner. >> Okay. So, the 200k was your undergrad

or what? >> 200k. I'm also a chiropractor actually.

So, undergrad plus chiropractic school.

>> Wow. >> Okay. >> Is that a combination? What are you going to be doing at the end of this?

>> Yeah. So, I'm looking to just uh expand my scope of practice as a chiropractor.

I currently can't prescribe medication or do injections. Um, so I'm just looking to be able to pro provide more services for my patients. So, okay, >> that's my game plan. >> And what are you making per month?

>> Per month about 8,000.

>> Okay. So, you can stack cash pretty fast. My goal would be to avoid going into any more debt. And if that means pausing the student loan debt while I cash flow this the rest of school, I would do that. >> It sounds like you're already doing that though, right?

>> Yeah, I I've got I could pay off my schooling program today. Um, so I wanted to see if y'all recommend that or should I put some of that towards this?

>> You're already you're already cash flowing like the current year and then you've got Did you I didn't hear if you said it was 30k for the rest or 20k?

>> 30k for the rest of the program. I've got about 35 >> and yeah. So, you keep 5,000 saved and then you could I mean essentially you could drop that down to 1,000 uh on the two 200,000 and with your $8,000 a

month, how much of that would you be putting on the the 200,000 chiropractor

deal?

>> About 4,000 a month.

>> Listen, get into it.

>> Yeah, >> I love that. >> That's about 50 grand a year. So, worst case, you're done in four years. Now, hopefully your income is going to drastically go up, right?

Right. That's the plan. >> And what is that going to take?

>> Uh, what do you mean? I'm sorry. >> How How do you get to 10, 12, 15 grand a

month income from where you're at right now? >> Uh, well, I could open up my own practice.

Uh, that's that's definitely a long-term goal. I just want to approach that correctly without going into >> Yeah, that sounds super expensive.

Usually when people say that, it's like, well, I took on a million dollars of debt to start my own practice, >> right? >> Yeah. No way on the radar at all.

>> Um, I mean, just continue working where I'm at. Maybe work more hours with additional responsibilities as as a nurse practitioner role as well. Um, >> so are you going to get paid more once you're done with the NP program?

>> I'm confused why that's helping you right now as you're working for someone else.

>> Well, the the nurse practitioner program is more long-term for when I'm on my own, but the current practice I work at is multi-disiplinary. So they they have nurse practitioners that provide other services as well. So I can get a increase in salary where I >> That's what I was aiming at. Can we get an instant pay increase when you're done with this program, >> right? Because provide more services.

>> Yeah. The goal would be to knock it out even faster than four years. And if you stay focused, keep living like you are now, keep living on less than you make, you'll get there. But I like the plan of, you know, when is that 30K due that's left for school? Is that a per semester payment you need to make?

>> Oh, no. That's not due until January 2027. >> Okay, great. Because I'm like, if it's not due yet, I would wait until it is due.

>> Okay. So, you recommend I just hold on to that for now? >> You keep it in a high yield savings account and then when the payment comes due, you you'll know you have the money

>> as long as you won't go spend it elsewhere. >> But you recommend I don't just pay it all off today. >> Well, I mean, is it When you say it's due, is it just the payment is due? It's not a debt currently.

>> No, it's not debt. It's a It's just a payment plan and then at the end at the end of the program >> then you just pay off the rest in full.

So I'm just paying a thousand a month. >> Is there any can you garner any incentive to pay it early? >> If you said, "Hey, I'm going to pay this all cash up front." Would they give you five or 10% off, for example?

>> I'd ask. >> I've not asked that, but I can definitely ask that. >> Worth looking into. >> I'm looking for any way to make this cheaper and make this go faster.

But you're on the right track, man. You're doing a lot of things right. I'm proud of you. Usually you get these calls from, you know, the chiropractors and the NPs.

>> I mean, he's got a lot of debt, but he's doing he's making the right moves to get rid of this fast, and I think he'll get there quickly. >> Joe is in LA up next.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, I got a question. I have currently uh me and my wife, we work two, we work uh we both have two incomes. Um, I have uh about

100 grand in uh high yield savings account right now. And my question is, should I use that towards uh I have a a high mortgage that's $4,500 a month, 7%

interest rate. Um should I use that to

pay off pay down my mortgage uh and maybe get a a better interest rate or should I keep that in the high savings high high yield savings account?

>> What do you guys recommend? >> Well, I have two questions before we decide. First off, I want to know how much you bring in every month with all those four incomes combined. You said you and your wife both have two jobs.

>> It's one and one. One job and one job.

>> Oh, I thought you said you and your both wife both had two. Okay. Well, what's the income total? >> Sounds. Yeah. Uh 10 grand for both of us. >> Okay. That's why you're hurting. Yeah.

>> That's half your take on pay. >> Do you have any other debts?

>> Yeah. Uh we do have 15 grand in in debt.

Um, but that's it's we're not getting hit with any interest or anything.

That's kind of a uh What kind of debt is% interest rate?

>> It's a consumer debt, but it's um on credit cards for 18 month financing credit cards. >> And what are the payments? That's that's it's still a payment.

>> Yeah, it's still payment. Uh payments are about 500 a month.

>> Yeah, man. This the the mortgage and these credit cards are eating your lunch. >> Yeah. You got a can of bear spray right now and there's a bear coming at you. I'd use the spray in the can and that's your 100k. So, I would pay off your 15,000 today. That leaves you with 85.

Uh, then you have the mortgage. That's all that's left, right?

>> Yeah. The mortgage, which is 518, 518,000.

>> Yeah. >> So, paying it down isn't just going to lower the payment. You're going to have to refinance or recast it in order to get a different payment. Are you talking about refinancing?

>> I'm talking about refinancing because currently when I we got the property, it was 7%. Now, it's like at 6.2. too. I'm

hoping it could get like at a five later on, but um so I was kind of waiting to see if the interest rates go down. I've been watching them for the past couple years. >> Um but um >> yeah, do the break even on that cuz the refinance is going to cost you and so you're find out how quickly you'll actually recoup that that money and how quickly you can get this manageable. But I like the plan of taking 15, paying off the debt and leaving enough for your emergency fund.

Anything above that, chunk it at the mortgage and refinance and it's going to lower your payment to make it more manageable. I'd love for you to get this payment closer to three grand.

>> Cuz right now, you know, half of it, half of your take-home pay is going just toward this mortgage.

>> Is there a world where you guys increase your income?

>> Um, yeah. Actually, my wife's working on her uh PE to her PE um professional

engineering uh license.

>> How long will that What's the timeline?

I'm going uh hopefully the next couple

months. >> Oh, >> she's studying. She's studying right now. So, she's just got to take the state test. >> Okay. >> Awesome.

>> Yeah. And then me, I'm trying to go back to school so I can get my degree, too.

So, we're trying we're trying to increase our income, but um as far as um

yeah, the rate you So, I should just wait until uh >> I would contact our friends at Church Hill Mortgage >> a little bit more. >> Yeah, contact our friends at Church Hill. they can run the numbers with you and show you, hey, does this make sense right now or not. Uh, but I think if you paid down the loan by another 50 grand and refinance, I think you could see the numbers start to make sense.

So, give them a call and see what they have to say. But I would knock out this debt today at least and use anything above the emergency fund to start tackling that mortgage. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 149. Stop Letting Dumb Decisions Control Your Financial Future | March 18, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAoHsu9x7yw) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:40:36 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Delony, host of The Dr. John Delony Show and [music] number one best-selling author Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Anne is with us in Nashville. Hi, Anne. How are you? Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so, I am calling today because

essentially um my husband and I have been married 10 years.

Um in that 10 years, we've never had shared bank accounts. Um essentially,

when I was graduating college, my grandmother on her deathbed told me, "Don't ever let a man control your money. You make it, you control it." And

I kind of took that to heart cuz she never left a bad marriage because she didn't have money to do so.

Um so, we're 10 years in and now I'm I feel

completely hoodwinked because

my husband has been using the money that he has like using cash. I don't know where the like the cash is going, but he's been apparently apparently funding his entire life on an Amex card that I just found out has an $18,000 balance at a 30% interest rate.

And when I confronted him about it, I told him he needed to cancel the card that we were going to be eating rice and beans because this was absolutely unacceptable. But, he told me he was going to take care of it. He was going to have make a budget.

He didn't want me talking to him like that. Didn't want me talking to him like he was a child.

So, I mean >> you suddenly decided you wanted to interfere in his money. Yeah.

>> After 10 years of telling him you wanted nothing to do with him.

No wonder he's pissed.

Well, I mean I'm over here like Well, I know. But, you you lost all the right to vote on his money when you said I'm not going to vote on your money.

You you you you you you decided out of the gate, I'm going to I'm going to row in my boat, you row in yours. And now you're mad at the direction he's rowing.

Yeah, but my money's paying for our entire life. So, >> Well, that's not a new thing.

No.

But, so this is the other thing. So, he is disabled and he gets like this pension and for years I thought this pension was a pittance. Like I literally was like, okay, he's he pays like the utilities and whatever.

Um well, I found out to this pension is not a pittance. Like apparently, you know, because I'm like

paying for all of our insurance premiums, like putting money in a 403b, putting money into our kids college savings plans, you know, eye insurance,

dental insurance for everyone, he brings home more money than I do now.

Okay, okay, but hold on.

You're W- why are you blaming him?

This is the arrangement y'all co-created at your direction based on bad advice from your grandma.

You're blaming him that he makes a bunch of money and you didn't know about it.

>> Okay. You get what I'm saying?

Well, I mean >> ask him?

I did. So, several times like I'd asked him and several times I was like, you know, hey, you know, this is what's going like this is what's going on. Like this is how I'm budgeting things. This is what's going on with everything." And you know, I'd be like,

"Do you want to like go ahead and start working together?" And he would be like, "Well, I don't know how to change my direct deposit or I don't know how to do online banking." Or you know, it would always be something some reason. But then I was just non-confrontational, so I never just, you know, try to peg him down on it. >> Well, but but also he has a very real lived experience that things are going to be done your way, the way you want them, at your direction.

You know what I'm saying? There there there's a difference between, "Hey, look at all the stuff I'm having to pay for.

Do you want to start combining money and do it my way?" And him going, "Nope." Or you saying, "Hey, I set us out on a on on a bad course. I thought the greatest way to keep myself safe was to keep myself disconnected from my spouse.

And I was wrong.

And I want a chance to rebuild this thing from the ground up. Will you be in this with me?" And that means we're going to combine everything including our fears, our shame, our embarrassments, and our money. And we got to be united in this thing. So you see how one of those is an accusation and one of those is a demand and one of those is an invitation.

Yeah. Right?

But now I'm left with like, you know, I've created, you know, this budget. I have sinking funds. I have you know, >> Listen, you got to change your language.

I I I he he he. You have to change it to we. So, okay. You know what I'm saying?

>> I do, but now we have this like $18,000

credit card with a 30% interest rate.

>> of doing business poorly. Yeah. Yes. So, what do I do? How do I tell him?

>> Send the bill to your grandmother.

>> [laughter] >> She caused it.

We have to decide that we are going to do money differently. We're going to be connected and we are both going to get this debt paid off and we are going to decide how we spend money and I'm going to stop lecturing you and being mad at you and also I'm going to tell you He didn't do anything wrong, by the way.

He's just doing what y'all arranged together. He did nothing wrong in this thing. He did exactly what you told him to do. He went over there and lived his life and then you're bitching about how he lived it.

You can't do that you don't get it both ways. Yeah, you got to come back together. Yeah, so the two of you sit down start fresh and go, "Okay, I want a do-over. The two of us are going to become one like the preacher says and now you are one and we're going to put all of our money in the middle of the table and I'm not going to gripe at you about the 18,000.

We're going to cut up the MX card and what and and together we're going to decide what we are going to spend on fun, what we are going to spend on life,

what we are going to put in the kids 529, how we are going to pay the insurance bills and we together are putting all of our money and he gets a vote and you get a vote on how this

budget looks. And if he says no, I'm not I don't know how I'm not going to fix my direct deposit, then y'all have a much bigger issue in your marriage than just doing money separately. You get what I'm saying? >> I guess I do cuz it just I guess it feels kind of like dishonest that he's let me believe for 10 years that he's got this like pittens of an income. >> I don't think so.

Maybe you are working really hard to make him a bad guy in this and I I want you to reframe that cuz it's your fault.

I I really I mean that'll be good for your marriage. Cuz I got I got to tell you I don't want to change my deposit because my wife thinks I've been lying to her for 10 years and I don't think I'm my vote's going to count in this budget meeting. I'll bet you he doesn't want to change the deposit then. Yeah, but I I wouldn't either.

I wouldn't either. So And if if if If been saying, "Hey, I need some help." and he says, "I don't have any money." and he's been lying to you, that's one thing. >> That's a different issue. >> doesn't sound like that's been happening.

Yeah, might have, but even then, uh you know, he certainly didn't come full forward and go, "Look, I make more than you on my disability check." He didn't do that, and he should have.

That's not going to work. >> It has to be an invitation. Yep, not going to work. Almost all invitations start with I statements. I messed this up. I want to do this different. I want us to be together. Will you join me in this? And it's going to take us changing the way we do everything. >> And you get a vote, and I get a vote, and [music] we're going to agree like two grown-ups together. I'm not your mama, and I'm not going to at you about this anymore. [music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. Uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in

coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great.

Take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years

and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Susanna's in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Hi Susanna, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well, Dave. Thanks for asking and thanks for taking my call.

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hi, so yeah, um me and my husband, we just recently got married a little under a year ago, we're going on a year. I am 29, he's um 29 as well, we're the same age. And we just have decision financial fatigue from trying to decide whether we should continue to invest. Um I'm kind of going on the route of investing still or pay

off our debt. Um so my husband and I, we

make about 11,500 a month right now, which will be our highest income.

Congratulations. >> is great.

Thank you. How much debt do you have?

We have 85,000 in debt. On what?

So, I have 24,000 on my car. We just paid off his car, which was 26,000. We just did that last month. Mhm. Um very good.

Yeah, so that was a huge lift.

Now we're trying to decide like do we continue and then I have 61,000 in student loans, unfortunately. Got you.

Okay. And you're 29 years old. All right. So, let me let's pan out a little

bit from instead of looking at the actual situation right there in front of you and ask what is the goal

with your money?

Okay? Cuz it it'll affect what what you

should do. Okay, so in other words, goal number one could be uh I'm going to live my life wide open right now. I'm going on six cruises a year. I'm going to do whatever I want to do. I make $11,000. That's a That's a goal. And if that's your goal, it's a different answer. If your goal is

um I want to live a good, solid life.

I'm willing to be sacrificial for a short period of time to increase the speed at which we build

wealth, which will allow us to be outrageously generous and do anything we want to do, which is the goal we usually are aligning people to, okay?

So, what's the fastest way to become wealthy, in other words, so that I can live the life I want to live and change my family tree and be outrageously generous? So, what's the fastest way to become wealthy? If that's the goal, then I can help you.

Yes. Yes, that would be the goal and then >> Okay, then the data says stop stop all investing temporarily and pay off the 85,000 as fast as you possibly can, and here's why. Okay, here's what the data says this. We studied 10,167 millionaires, the largest study of millionaires ever done.

What we found was is that they increased the speed at which their net worth went up, their 401k's got fully funded, they jammed them up, and they got their home paid off when they got rid of their debt, because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income, and right now the bone marrow is being sucked out of your income with $85,000 worth of boat crap.

Mhm. Okay. >> when you get rid of that, it increases the velocity of your wealth building.

That's what the data tells us from studying millionaires. And and actually the math will tell you that, too, when you think about, okay, all those payments on that $85,000, what if we just put that into an investment? Oh, that's $5 million in 5 years or 10 years or 20 years or whatever it is, right?

And so it turned you you see, those payments are mathematically the arithmetic is sucking the marrow out of your investments. And and so you're trying to do some investing because you want to build wealth, meanwhile you're limping along in mediocrity because a large portion of

your $11,000 is going to past stupidity.

Yes, very true. Yeah. And that that's normal, I mean, that's normal. So, but but so what we have found is is that with your income, you'll be debt free in about 18 months if you go crazy for a short period of time. And say, all right, we're not going out to eat, we're going to sell so much stuff the kids can't have their next, we're not going on vacation, we're going to clear the stinking $85,000 because it's between me and winning.

Okay.

Okay, I definitely see holding perspective on it.

Sacrificing now will get us to the long-term wealth. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's the you had the right goal. The only question is what's what's the most effective path to that goal, right?

And so that that and that's what we've come down to. We figured that, you know, from 30 years of sitting in the seat answering these questions and helping people become millionaires, tens of thousands of them.

Um and and and and and Sharon and I did and and the Ramsey personalities did and I talked to two of my leaders downstairs a while ago. They just both of them paid off their house in the last 3 weeks and both of them said, "Since we paid off our house, that put us at the millionaire mine, you know, the the millionaire net worth and then and then boom, with no stinking house payments >> Cuz I'm going to put that in a calculator. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Well, you put a house payment in a calculator and you go, "Hey, there What's that turn into in 20 years?" It's not a million. It's like 10 million.

Well, and and Dave, I I think there's for me personally, in my house, there's a whole other side of this equation, which is as the news gets crazy, as the world gets crazy, knowing that like like the the banks don't care. You

signed up to make a payment every month.

This student loan payment is due. This car payment is due. This mortgage payment is due. It doesn't matter if you lose your job. That payment's still due. It doesn't matter if your hours get cut. That payment's still due. Taking that stuff off your risk profile lets you sleep, man. It just changes the temperature and the tension in your home. And that to me is worth as much as my like my overall net worth portfolio.

It's just having peace in my house. >> weird is it's not only just that. That then causes you to make different decisions that are wiser and that accelerates your wealth building. >> Yes. Because you're coming from peace, Yes. >> not from We've all We've all been approached by a salesman that is happy to help us and

wants us to to win and we've also been approached by a salesman who we can argue we know, "Oh, you need the sale." Right? Those are That level of desperation is just different and you are more successful. I I to work with that guy that wants to help me out, not the one that needs me to overspend, right? So, anyway, I There There's the money part, but man, there's that peace part. >> And they just do work together.

>> so well together. Really cool. So, hey, thanks for calling. Joy's in Orlando.

Hey Joy, what's up?

Good. How are you? I was wondering, my

dad is offering to be a bank as I'm

looking for homes, and I'm wondering if that's okay to take him up on that offer OR IF I SHOULD JUST NO!

RUN, JOY, RUN! Your dad's Your dad is sweet. >> He's sweet, but don't do it. Here's why.

>> That's That's what I thought, but I thought I should ask. The The The old joke is if you loan your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, was it worth it?

>> [laughter] >> So, the borrower is slave to the lender,

and when you owe put someone money, even

someone as sweet as your dad, and your dad's a really nice guy.

I mean, cuz jerks don't offer to give their daughter like bank money, right?

So, loan their daughter bank money. But, when you eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master, even if he's a nice master,

it still tastes different.

Yeah. You're right. And um and you're

You're looking over your shoulder wondering if he's judging the vacation you're taking while you owe him money.

Are you married, Joy?

I'm not. >> Okay. Yeah. I promise if you start dating somebody or you go get married and you still are in this arrangement, that's going to be real weird between the two of them. Here's what I would do.

I would tell my dad, I would take him out for a breakfast somewhere, not super expensive, but kind of nice, and I would tell him, "Thank you so much, but I want you to always just be my dad." Aw. You get what I'm saying? I want to preserve that I want to preserve that relationship. I don't ever want it to be weird. Let me do banking with banks. I want you to always just be my dad.

And if he decides to gift you a hundred thousand dollars instead of loaning it to you, you can take it. >> Take it all day long. >> [laughter] >> Take Take it all day long.

Oh, that's so funny.

>> [laughter] >> I didn't say I didn't say you bring it up. I said if he decides.

I mean, you might want to bring it up.

Just kidding. No, that that Yeah, be careful. This is the This ends up poorly. So, when I went broke and lost everything, uh Sharon's dad loaned us money.

>> Mhm. And Sharon's dad, he's 97 now.

>> [music] >> He's the nicest man I've never known.

He's the sweetest, kindest, gentlest guy. He never said >> [music] >> an unkind word.

And I got to pay back really really fast.

And it drove me bonkers. YEAH. I COULDN'T STAND IT. And

Sharon's like, "Listen, no big deal. It's just my dad." >> The shadow of her dad was over your house. >> Yeah. [screaming] And the mess of having gone broke, lost everything, bankrupted, and shamed. Now, her daddy has to come bail you out.

And I have to eat Thanksgiving dinner there. Uh and he never said a stinking word. None of that's on him. It's all on me. But, it proved to me that point, the borrower is [music] slave to the lender.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Doug is in Philadelphia. Hi, Doug. How are you? Good. How are you, sir? Thank you so much for having me on the show. Sure.

How can we help?

So, I excuse me, I am in baby step two

of my financial journey, and I got a part-time job. I work a full-time job, but I got a part-time job at a big box home improvement store.

And when I started there, you know, credit cards were always a thing. I have never signed anybody up for one. I refuse to do it. I have no issue and I I will never do it.

And it was really never a big deal when they would ask, you know, I'd tell them, "Nobody wants to already has one." But uh they've really been recently pushing. Like every day I go in, "Hey, you haven't signed anybody up for a credit card. Hey, you haven't signed anybody up for a credit card." And now they're starting to offer HELOCs.

And my my conundrum is is do I I I only

got about 9 10 months left there before I have a completed my my goals and I'm actually out of baby step three. Do I just continue to play that game and say, "Oh, yeah, it's fine." or do I say sit down with my manager and say, "Hey, here's here are my values. Here are my convictions and I will not push these products onto people and my I myself am

here trying to get out of debt." Yeah.

Well, if you do that, you're going to get fired.

Yeah.

So, um an easier method would be just quit. Be easier. Be easier on everybody. Um

or you can just ride it out for 9 months and you know. But but it's the business that they're in and it's they have now said, "Okay, you work for us. Your job is

to help someone find the bolt, the screw, the lock and to sign them up for a credit card. That's your job and if you're not doing that, you're not doing your job." That's what they're saying.

Right? Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. And so and and and you don't want to do that and um so uh

I honestly I think you probably get another job that doesn't require that that pays about the same, don't you?

Yeah. Yeah. I I enjoy helping

I have a maintenance background so I really enjoy helping customers figure out their problems and and helping them with their DIY projects and yeah.

>> Yeah. And I enjoy that doing that aspect

of it and like at first I never had a problem. It was never really pushed.

Yeah. Uh the the whole credit card thing but now it's almost it's every day I walk in and and it's just I want to say to them like I'm not doing that. Yeah. I will help customers uh get their product. I'll help I'll help them with their their their problems and help them solve them and fix it but I'm not pushing the credit card. And I told my wife I said I I I understand the the moral aspect of it, but the bottom line is is they own the company.

And they said this is your job and you don't want to do the job.

Yes. I guess. Yeah, you're right. It shouldn't be the job. The job ought to be what you're talking about, helping people with their DIY project and it ought to be fun to do that. Um, I have a friend that uh back during COVID was bored and he went to work in one of those stores and the thing that drove him crazy was they had a policy that no matter what happens, if someone wants to return something, you have to take it back.

And he had a guy come in that had had a lawnmower for 2 years mowing his grass with it and brought it back said I don't like it. And he's supposed to give him a full credit. And he goes, that's immoral. I'm not doing that. And they go, yeah, you are. And he goes, no, that's wrong. That guy's ripping us off. We shouldn't do that. And they go, no, that's our policy. We take it back no matter what, no matter how absurd. And and they fired him.

Cuz he wouldn't take the lawnmower. He said, I'm not going to do it. And and they're like, well, that's what your job is. You work for us. Well, they that's true. If you work for someone and they tell you this is your job, you have to do the job or you don't get to work there. I mean, that's a simple thing, right? So, um I I I don't disagree with the um

the angst that is created by you here. I

I honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd go look for something else. If you want to sit down with your supervisor and say, hey, listen, I don't want to cause a stink. I don't want to get fired and and I'm not going to make some big moralistic speech here, but I'm here to help people with their DIY stuff and I really enjoy that and I'm really not going to be doing this credit card thing. If you think I should quit, if that's the case, you tell me.

You could do that.

Okay. And Doug, can I can I pass something along to you? And this is the pot talking to the kettle here.

Yeah, absolutely. How often do you spend having imaginary conversations with your boss and your owners.

Uh I've I've had a couple. You've had a bunch. Where you you're going to sit them down, you're going to tell them, and they're going to be like, "Oh, that's right. That's what's up." And you always have the mic drop moment at the end, and it feels so good. Let me tell you this. >> It's not going to work that way. >> Those imaginary conversations are a complete and utter waste of your time.

In fact, they're not even benign. They detract energy that you could be spending on loving your wife well, loving your kids well, and being at peace.

And so, commit to not having imaginary conversations. Either have it or don't,

and then seek like Dave's like, "Man, you're you're working a part-time job. Go find another part-time job, man." And then sail off into the sunset. I I'm not going to give you my character and my integrity and extra energy that could go

to my family. I'm not going to do it.

Terra is in Birmingham. Hey, Terra, what's up?

Hi, I am a 29-year-old single

veterinarian. I am 3 years out from

school and having pre-marriage discussions with my boyfriend. Yay. We neither have debt. He owns his house. My

student loans are our big discussion point. I have 301,000 in student loans

with a 57% average interest. I No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait, stop, stop, stop, stop. You said 57%.

>> 5.7?

5.7. >> Yeah, okay. >> Dang, Gina, that's going to be That's going to be expensive. >> So, a little different. Okay. All right.

>> [laughter] >> I'm sorry.

Now, who Who's we owe here, yeah?

>> the federal government. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And I make 97,000 a year. Mhm.

So, I was planning on student loan forgiveness, but I don't trust that it's going to stay around, and we're looking at potentially having kids before then.

Mhm. And I don't know that I will stay full-time. I'd rather set aside money for my own small business.

But I have such a large sum of student

loans. I'm not sure what I should prioritize. Paying it off

before kids come or setting aside money

for my own business so I can have that option when kids come and and could big

lots of money. >> No. Um here's the thing.

I know a lot of veterinarians. We work with a lot of them in entre leadership and I've got several personal friends that were veterinarians and um you you're always very very intelligent people because you know, a medical doctor only has to learn one body system. You have to learn multiple species body systems.

And so um uh I know that you're a bright person or you wouldn't be a DVM, okay? So um uh and you you work really really hard

to get to be a DVM.

And you sacrificed a lot of your future

and $300,000 to get to be a DVM.

And so I want to quit and stay home and raise babies. You gave that up when you signed up for 300K until you get the 300K cleared.

You're a vet you're a vet. You signed up to be a vet, kiddo.

Now you got to go be a vet and you got to get the stinking mess cleaned up.

That's why I want to have my business >> No, you don't you you don't have the money to do a business. You're broke.

>> Yeah. You're $300,000 in debt. You make 97 a year and you can make 150 a year by just picking up side gigs, working in medicine, and some of the other stuff, and you need to go to go to work. You need to work 24/7 all the time

and get this out of your life. Now, if you guys get married and you can live on his income, and it sounds like he's very financially responsible, well, if you're making 100, you can clean up 300 pretty quick, can't you?

Yeah. >> Making 150, you can clean it up even quicker. And if he throws in, if he's got money to add that that when y'all combine income, that's even faster. >> you do anything, before we talk about I want to quit and stay home, you don't start talking about starting a business and I want to quit and stay home in the same sentence.

Those are incongruent.

Yeah. >> So, you got to decide which you is going to be. But, for now, eight years ago, you decided you were going to be a vet, $300,000 worth of hole worth. [music] And so, now you got to clean up your mess.

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Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you got a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. Can you imagine if we dumped like seven years of radio calls and podcast calls into an AI and let it know how to answer exactly how we would answer. Oh, and all the Financial Peace University lessons. Oh, and all the books I've written. All dumped in there and then you can answer the question the way we would answer the question, right? That's what Ask Ramsey is and it's completely free.

You're going to get answered the same way we would. Maybe not quite the level of snark, but probably some level of snark. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Matthew is in Orlando. Hi Matthew, how are you?

I'm good. Appreciate you both taking my call. Sure. What's up? >> Um So, I'm looking to be a first-time home buyer. I'm 27 years old and I have about $120,000 saved up towards um my house.

>> that?

Uh just staying out of debt for a number of years. It builds up over time. Look at you. What do you make a year?

Um about 80,000 after like stocks that

my company gives and stuff like that. did >> you heard that all Gen Z's life has been ruined by the real estate market?

That it's impossible for you to buy a house and yet you, young man, went out and saved $120,000. I'm so proud of you.

Well, thank you.

Um but yeah, I just want to make a wise decision with my first home buy. Um I I

think I can comfortably get over the 20% needed for a PMI.

Um but I wanted to get as much um direction as I possibly could.

Okay. What are you thinking about doing?

I want to buy a smaller home, so something like a $250 to $300,000 range.

Um but I want to make sure that the my

funds I'm putting in like are going to give me still a comfortable home that I can be able to enjoy for that range.

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, that just involves a lot of shopping.

And so what happens is I know I have found this when I teach um leadership I I often tell guys when they're making decisions and gals when you're making decisions he with the most options

and the most patience makes the best decision.

They also win the They also win more negotiations, by the way. So, options mean you look at a lot of properties.

You don't go look at three and buy the fourth one.

And you learn you learn the market, you drive the neighborhoods, you drive them on Friday night to see if it sounds different in the neighborhood than it does on Thursday morning.

You you know, you check the traffic patterns, you learn and you feel the air, and you look at the properties, you look at how old they are, how worn out the appliances are, you know, what am I getting myself into? And you just gather data and and let that data soak into your brain and it'll become what's called common sense after a while.

And then you'll make a much better choice than somebody that just moves to town and looks at three houses, right?

Okay. You're you're a you're a marathon runner anyway. You're not a sprinter.

You you like to go steady.

That's your style. I can tell by the way you raised that money. You saved that money over time.

Right. Use that same personality trait to make this decision.

Okay. Yeah, I was wondering about just I was told like foreclosure was an option, but I'm not very comfortable with that kind of thought that I didn't know if maybe a home inspection would be enough to kind of warrant some of the the risk that might be coming with that.

You you need a home inspection. You need a home inspection and a title policy no matter what you buy.

Foreclosure doesn't necessarily mean bargain, and it doesn't necessarily mean the property's trashed.

But it could mean both.

So, you just get in there and dig around and you go, "Okay, I looked at four houses on the street. They're all 300.

This one's 150, but it needs a roof. It's going to need all new landscaping, and I'm going to have to paint it, and all new appliances in the kitchen's got to be torn out. Okay, so I'm going to have another 100 in it. And so, I'm going to have 250 in it when I'm done, but it'll be like new.

But people buy it and think they got a deal just cuz it said foreclosure, but it's the same stinking numbers as the house next door.

Right. That's not a deal.

So, you you know the you know a deal because you've looked at the other ones that aren't a deal.

Got you. Okay. And then, you know, I wouldn't suggest you get into a heavy rehab, but if you need some new bushes and a new paint job, you can probably do that one. But I wouldn't on my first home, 27 years old, I wouldn't suggest becoming a remodeler all of the sudden.

Okay. Just because they do it on TikTok, doesn't mean you need to do it.

Right. >> Yeah. I got a feeling you're going to do really well, Matthew.

That guy's got it. He's got it figured out, John. Yeah, I like that guy, man.

And and it's uh I think you the the word you use that resonated with me is patience. And for a guy like that, once he flips the switch, I'm going to buy Mhm. the real challenge is can you take 6 weeks or 6 months and just go slow and the right place will emerge. You got you you you have cash and you've got diligence and you've got a good salary.

You're good. Yeah, there's not there's nothing on fire. >> patient, yeah. Yeah, dig dig up a dig up something that you like the house and it's in good enough condition that you can see it becoming with the money that you have uh the place that you're going to be for a while. Yeah. Uh don't call it your forever home because it's not. There's only one forever home, heaven.

John's in Detroit. Hey, John, what's up?

Hey, guys. Thanks for talking to me. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

Oh, man. Um so, about 6 months ago, I had about 250k in the bank. Um I lived

in a $900 apartment, debt-free and owned my car, and I'm a self-employed musician, so I was doing pretty good, making about uh 50 to 60 take-home a year. So, I decided to purchase a home um back in November, put about half down

on it, and ever since then I've been uh recently sick. I actually got sick from the anxiety of owning a home, and I feel like I'm over-leveraged. My mortgage is about 1,500 bucks a month.

Um and uh um I I recent I I did get sick from uh

kind of having the mortgage and the stress of it. And then I was in a car accident. My car got totaled, so I had ended up having to get a vehicle. And now I have a loan on it for about nine

uh $9,000, 12,000 with warranty. I'm going to cancel the warranty.

So now I have Half my money's gone. I have about 100K left in the bank um because I was sick. I have uncertainty for the future. And you know, I'm just kind of really frightened about being a self-employed uh first-time home buyer. I've been a musician for 30 years. And I was actually considering maybe selling my house um to restart >> is your house payment?

It is 1,500 a month.

>> say that. I'm sorry.

No, that's okay. >> And and you make uh $4,000 a month.

Uh it roughly 4 to 5,000 depending on

the season. So it it >> have any other payments.

Um no, besides my And you have $100,000

in the bank. Right. But I uh sir, I do have um

my taxes coming up, which is about 5,000. I have to replace a garage roof for about 3,000. I didn't escrow my property taxes, which I think I might do. And that's about 6,700 a year

because I thought I'd >> So you've still got $75,000, and then we paid off the car. So now we've still got $65,000, and you have no payments and nothing outstanding.

That's right. Have you ever owned a home before, John?

Uh no. That's it. When I When I got in there, I I I'm 53. And I overpaid for it. It was in the height of the market. >> Ho- hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Like Yes. You've never done this thing before.

That's right. >> So cut yourself some slack. Give yourself some grace.

You're doing a thing that you've never done before. You've never felt this kind of weight on the squat bar. You got two guys telling us telling you, "We know you can lift this." Oh, is that what you guys are saying? So I'm like it's a bad idea to sell the house. So I'm like you it's a bad idea to sell a house. Here's what is important and Dave has helped me with this a lot personally.

Is when I feel something really big

especially about money, it's always important to look at the math on the paper.

Facts are your friends. >> Facts are your friends. The facts are the 1,500 out of 4,000 shouldn't cause you any stress.

Especially when you got 65,000 in the bank and zero debt and zero bills.

And that's where you are. So, the stress is manufactured. It's not mathematical.

[music] The house is not causing you stress.

Your perception of the house is causing you stress. >> Amen. Amen.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] studio.

Dr. John Delony, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Andrew is with us in

Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, Andrew, what's up?

Hey, Dave. How's it going, man? Um Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, um so I'm 21 and I got two kids

and um I made some financial mistakes uh around age of 18

and I'm $70,000 in debt now.

Um and here recently, I got into a settlement and I'm going to be getting around $250,000.

And um I'm wanting to play the waiting game. I don't want to pay it off. I just want to let it fall off on its own.

And I want the best advice on what I can do. >> off? Fall off of what?

>> Uh fall off of my report, the statute of limitations. No, honey. You owe the money. >> [laughter] >> Oh, man. >> Correct. I know, but I still >> So, how did you get $250,000?

What happened? Uh so, um my kids'

mom bought him a 3D printed firearm or I

mean a 3D printer and he 3D printed a firearm with it.

And he accidentally shot me and I'm now

I went after her homeowner's insurance policy and that's what I got out of it.

That's the wildest thing I've ever heard. You got shot by a 3D printed firearm?

Yes. So, the handle, the lower handle,

the magazine, and then the slide part is all 3D printed. The only thing metal would be the barrel, the trigger mechanism, and the bullets.

And how old is this kid? I'm just curious. This is just fascinating.

14.

And he knows how to build a firearm from scratch.

I mean, yeah. Well, there's YouTube, I guess. >> Yeah, he he might have tried. Wow. It's a wild world we live in. >> Yeah. This that's nuts. Okay, so her her they pay off 250 grand.

You owe 70,000 on what?

Um Dodge Hellcat. I'll just I put it put it to you there. I went and got it brand new. Um Where is it?

>> I got to prove Uh it's gone.

Um Where'd it go? >> reason they did It got sold.

Okay. Uh you got you got repoed.

Uh I couldn't tell you. I I have no idea.

You you weren't that drunk. Where'd the car go?

It got sold. And it got >> Who sold it? You had to sell it. You owned it.

Yes. Okay. So, you sold it. It didn't get sold. I sold it. Okay. When you sold

it how you didn't pay it off?

No. How did you sell a car and get title without paying it off?

No title. Um that's a lot of the deals nowadays.

People like cars that way.

Um what had happened was the fuel pump had went out and it was going to cost around $1,500 for just the part alone.

Um and you know, as I mentioned being 18 and I made bad financial >> days I'm kind of up on and I never heard anybody buying a dead gum car without a title. How did you get tags?

Uh they it came with it.

They didn't buy it for um I guess you'd say leisurely driving if that makes sense.

Are they too fast, too furious?

Yeah, uh drug dealer doing runs. And so, they didn't So, it's still titled to you. No, I would say more like track

track stuff cuz a lot of the tracks they don't require cars to have titles or VINs or anything like that. All right.

So, you owe $70,000 on a car that you didn't pay off when you sold it.

Correct. All All of it is that?

Yes, that's it. Okay. Well, when you get your 250, you write a check and you pay the people that you owe because you screwed them. Yes.

Correct. Yeah. >> Okay, good. Now we have Now we have 180.

Now, my question would be though, could I come at them with say 50

full check I don't know you come at them with anything. I don't know. I I I want you to be a person of integrity here, brother.

Like you walked into a place even though you're 18 and you said, "Hey, I'll give you this amount of money if you give me that car right now." and they said, "Deal." And they made a bad deal and you were 18 didn't know what you're doing, but you shook hands and signed a piece of paper, brother.

Correct. >> And just because a 14-year-old printed a gun and shot you

with it like that and you have this windfall of cash all of a sudden. Thank God you weren't permanently injured.

Yeah. So, man, pay do what's right. What do you make a year?

Um right now I'm making close to 70

where I'm uh located.

>> Good. Good for you. Okay. All right. So, um uh you call them up and say, "I need

to settle this debt. What will you accept?" And see what they say. And it whatever they tell you, write them a check for that. Okay? Then maybe maybe they'll take 50. They might. Okay? Um but uh and

here one of the things that we find as we've studied wealthy people is um not like I was told when I was growing up. Not by my parents, but by people in my neighborhood. They all said wealthy people are crooks, okay? And all the data that we have today tells us it's quite the opposite.

Quit doing crap under the table.

Cars with no titles.

And quit looking for a shortcut on everything. Just do the right thing, show up for work, work your butt off while you're at work, and people will notice because that alone is unusual.

And just become a man of extreme

integrity.

And that would be my prescription for you. If you want to call them and say, "All right, guys, I owe you this. I did this deal when I was 18.

I know you probably got 70 or 100 or whatever on it. What will you take? I'll write you a check today if you'll make me a deal." And you just, you know, and then just there probably they might say 50. 50 would actually be a good deal for them.

Um and then the next time you get ready to buy a car, be a grown-up.

Write a check for the car, buy a buy a a father of two car,

which a Hellcat would not be on the list. >> [laughter] >> Okay? And um you know, and pay cash for it and get a title and go get tags on it and be like a functioning part of society.

And then that leads you towards being able to grow and to function and to win.

Dave and I started working here, right?

All of this was new to me and I kept going to these meetings about the Delony

brand. And I remember after the third or fourth meeting, I kind of threw a little fit. I was like, "Guys, I don't want a brand. I don't like that idea.

I don't like that word. I don't want that." And Tim Newton, who does all of that here globally here at Ramsey's, is one of the most amazing minds I've ever been around. He said, "John, all a brand is is who you are when you're not in the room." What do people think about you? How do they feel about you?

And that changed changed me.

And I want Andrew, when he's not in the room there in Louisville, Kentucky, I want everyone to know oh, that guy is a man of integrity.

>> He's a stand-up guy. >> That guy, we can count on that guy. That guy's always >> dad. >> He's a great dad. He's always going to be a great dad. >> husband. >> Yes. He's a wonderful neighbor.

>> Yes. He serves. They just That's who that you are when you're not in the room because of how present [music] and generous you are when you are in the room. Be that guy.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Marie is in Phoenix. Hi Marie, how are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Thank you for having me on the show, Dave and John. Sure. What's up?

Um I'm wondering if you can settle a long debate between my boyfriend and I. Yes. >> Yes. [laughter] I love these.

Um we both own our separate homes, um and we have our separate home expenses, but he stays at my house about four nights a week, and our debate is like he should he contribute to rent or some household expenses, and he feels that he shouldn't. >> How how old are you two?

Uh I'm 62 and he's 51. Why are you not

married? No. Why? Um because we've both been married before and he doesn't want to get married.

Uh And he doesn't want to pay any expenses.

No. But he wants to sleep there. Yes. Yes,

he says believe he takes me out to dinner like once a week >> you Yeah, you missed the point, I guess.

Straight up. Yeah. I I know I I get it.

I get it. Yes. Yeah. Hm. Okay.

Hm.

Why are you settling for this?

Um because it works for me, I guess.

>> It doesn't. That's why you're calling.

Well, it's we've fought over it for years. Yeah.

You should stop that. >> Yeah. The fighting part. >> [laughter] >> You should just You should decide and end it. One of the you know I I um End the relationship or end

>> No, I'm just saying end the fight. There's There's a fight a fight I don't fight over something for years. I just either get in or I get out of the fight and I'm not going to I'll lose the fight or win the fight or something, but I'm not going to We're done. We're done talking about this. Years >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like you're all your pet hobbies >> dating?

About 6 years. Oh, good grief.

Okay, I'm um >> I Okay, so the the the truth is the way I answer questions on the show is I try to think about uh what what I would do if I were in your situation and I can't put myself there because I wouldn't be in your situation. I would get married if I were you guys or I would or I would move on. I'd break up with somebody who disrespects me so much. >> Yeah, that they you know, they want to sleep with me, but they don't want to marry me.

So, yeah. Um But But so I can't put my I'm having trouble honestly answering your question. I'm not trying to make a judgment on you. I'm just trying to say I can't put myself in your shoes.

I can't make that work. So, um Can I throw something in here, Dave?

the argument. Then you decide if you want him to sleep there or not. Okay. You have your house, he has his house. You could be over at his house or you could be at your house.

Um we are >> can't be at his house. Why?

Because he lives twice as far from our jobs. Um and I have dogs and he doesn't want dogs in his house and obviously I can't leave them here. >> Okay, that actually brings me closer to a question I had like I I think I'm right on something.

I think you're asking him to spend money on expenses.

That is your work around to more emotional connection with this guy.

What do you mean by that? I'm meaning I don't think this is about dollars and cents. I think this is about are you are are we doing this thing together or not?

And he's being very clear. We are not doing this together. >> I don't do dogs and I don't do marriage and I don't pay your expenses.

I take you out to >> There's a lot a lot of things he doesn't do. Yeah.

I Yeah, I I I think Dave, this is less about money and this is more about

I'm like he won't do my dogs, he won't marry me, he won't make a long-term commitment, so I'm going to go around this way and see if I can I can squeeze

some emotional connection by your participating in the bills, your participating in the rhythm of the house and >> Some sign of commitment. >> Some sign that we're doing this thing together and he's super clear. Behavior is language. We are not together. Yeah.

I sleep with you when I'm at your house, I get what I want, I then go to my and do my life by myself privately in my own way. Mhm. It's a huge huge I mean there's red flags all over >> with that arrangement and that's that's your decision. >> Be a grown-up and stop fighting about it.

Just say this is the way this is going to be and I'm accepting it and I'm going to move on. I'm not going to choose to be miserable or >> going to stay in this relationship, I think he wins the argument.

I agree. Yeah. I I think I think you have your expenses, he has his expenses and um I'm not going to charge him for a And then you get Yeah, you get to decide whether you want to continue in this expense arrangement. >> Yeah. Yeah.

That that's what's going on. I mean it's not it's you know, I don't I don't want to be that person. I don't I don't be any of these people, but yeah. All right. >> Natalie is in Boston. Hey Natalie, what's up?

Hi. I am just wondering if I should go

after my ex-husband's 401k.

For what?

Uh unpaid child support. He hasn't paid me in about 11 years. Um we've been divorced 11 years and >> you done something before now?

Uh he's it's a little complicated. He's been in and out of prison and uh

I don't know. I I guess I've I've tried to file with the state that I live in and they basically told me you can't squeeze money from a rock. There's been times he's been on the street and he's in there in and out of jail for domestic violence and drug charges and I think he

forgot that this exists because I think he would have cleaned it out if had he known. And

yeah, so that's where I'm at. This exists so you found it.

He had something sent in the mail and I

I opened it. Yes.

>> Mhm. Okay. And how much is in it?

About 60,000. Okay. And how much are you owed?

Over 100,000.

Okay. How How long's it been since you talked to your divorce attorney?

I didn't have one. I think he magically thought that if he didn't show up to court that we wouldn't get divorced. He didn't want the divorce so 11 years ago I just I did it myself and got granted a divorce and got sole custody and When's the last time you talked to him?

Last year. Every Every year he'll kind of call and be under the influence and

try to say he wants to see the kids or something but it's not really a Do you Do you need this money?

Um >> Or are you mad? Sort of I guess I'm just mad. I'm engaged to be married to a wonderful man in June. He doesn't want to wake the beast. He said he's left us left me alone for the past few years for the most part besides that occasional once a year call or so. I like him. Dave may disagree with me. I agree with your I agree with your fiance. >> agree with your fiance, too. You do?

>> Cuz I think you saw this number and you got really pissed off, rightfully so.

And you felt that you remembered a decade of grinding it out, three jobs, not seeing your kids. You remember all that came to the surface immediately.

Right. And you want to start this whole thing over and you you remember how hellacious the divorce was when he wasn't responding to anything. He just he was like, "Yeah, I dare the sheriff to come kick me out." He's a bad dude. >> He's not a good guy.

No, he's not a good guy. >> So, I um Yeah. And and lastly, I'll tell you this, I I don't know the answer to the legal question and you'd have to find someone that does know the answer, like an attorney. Uh if you wanted to ask someone, but as I understand it, a 401k cannot be touched by a lawsuit.

I know that part is true. I don't know if that is true on child support, if that allowed child support would violate that or not. And so, I'm not sure you can get to it anyway.

Right. >> You if you want to put that part to peace in your mind and go, "Well, I can't get it anyway." Then unless he voluntarily pulls it out and gives it to me, you can make his life miserable, like it it isn't already, until he made it till he pulled it out and gave it to you, but um Or you can take the cinder block that is him out of your backpack for good. Yeah, just just walk away. >> You got a good new guy that you're marrying with.

You're going to create a whole new life. Your kids are stable and healthy because of the the awesomeness of the last 10 years, the grinding and and and and just making it all work that you've done the last 10 years. Yep. Man, choose peace over this one.

That That'd be my opinion. You can go burn him to the ground, but you're going to get you're going to get burned, too. Yeah, it's the fire's hot.

don't think you can get the money anyway. I'm not sure. I don't know if you can get it or not in a 401k with child support, but if it was a regular lawsuit, I could tell you, you can't get it. It's not accessible.

It's accessible in a divorce. A divorce attorney or divorce lawyer, probate can make you split up a 401k in the process of a divorce.

So, they may be able to do it on child support, I don't know. But, I I think overall, you don't need it and you sure don't need him around. So, I'm with your I'm with your fiance and John.

>> [music]

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Don't be normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Evelyn is in Atlanta. Hi, Evelyn. How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I'm 24 years old and I've been

working since I've been 15. I haven't

built any real savings and I put all of my my expenses on a credit card. I have like $2,000 or $3,000 in

uh that I spend a month on my credit card and after I pay that off, I pay it off in full every month, but after I pay it off, I only have like $100 or $200 left. I I basically live paycheck to paycheck and I've been living like that ever since I started working and I do

I use the college savings that my parents uh had for me as a down payment for a duplex and I rent it out, but whenever

big repairs come up, I have to borrow money from them to pay it off, and I just want to stop doing that. I want to break the cycle and start saving money, stop using my credit card, and just breaking the bad habits of spending money like it's no tomorrow. So, you make about $3,000 a

month?

Uh I make like Yeah.

Like Yeah, 3,000 4,000.

Okay, [snorts] but you said you put 2,000 on the card.

I put as usually my Every time my my uh

It's usually like 3,000 around there on the credit card. Like I put all the money >> What do you do for a living?

Uh I work for the post office. Mhm. Okay.

Mhm. And what's the duplex worth?

Um it's I got it with uh equity, so I got it with 20K equity. It's worth 250 right now. And what do you owe on it?

Uh basically 2 230.

Mhm. Okay.

So, it's really not a big blessing. It's more of a curse.

Uh I would say uh I >> Yeah. It costs you money. It doesn't make you money.

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.

Sell it.

You think so? Well, I'm trying I'm willing to use that as like a retirement plan. >> a retirement plan. It's It's draining money. It's not adding money.

It sucks.

Money. >> get rental income from it. It's like >> costs you more than it makes you. Yeah.

Evelyn, the only way you can go forward here is to exhale and say, "What I've been doing is not working. I'll try something else." Mhm. Yeah. And what do you What do you guys like suggest? Like the truth is I understand I have a spending problem.

And like I I just >> you do. I think you have a systems problem. I think the system you're using to handle money sucks. So, what would be wrong with just cutting up your credit card and paying cash for things?

No, nothing honestly. I think I've just done it so long that I just I know, but just just let's try something new. This sucks. Mhm. You called me because it wasn't working. So, cut up your credit card, take your paycheck, turn it into money, pay cash for your groceries, Mhm. put some money in a checking account and use a debit card or whatever to pay your light bill, pay your landlord, I assume you're renting.

Uh no, I actually live with my parents.

>> Oh, okay.

Yeah. Okay. So, you don't have any overhead. You have $3,000 a month coming in. You got a car payment?

No, actually. I don't have any debt, actually. Other than the duplex.

Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, what if you cut up your credit card and just took your paycheck and used it to live on?

Yeah, I mean It's the same thing. It's the same thing you're doing.

>> [clears throat] >> Uh-huh.

No, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, use the jump

on in on the App Store and get the EveryDollar app and put it on your phone and say, "I got this much coming in. I have $3,200 coming in this month and I'm going to give every one of those dollars a name." If you want something different than you have now, you're going to have to do something different than you do now.

And right now, I'm listening to you and I've been coaching people with money for 35 years and your duplex idea is broken.

It sucks. It's taking money from you.

It's not adding money to you. And you're

living like a 12-year-old in terms of how you're handling money. You just spend it until it's gone and then you're not you have no emotional connection to it whatsoever.

I'm asking you to be an adult, step back and get over the top of the money and tell the money what to do before the month begins on the EveryDollar app, make every one of those dollars behave, and then go do that exact thing with that money, and you're going to be no worse off. You're actually going to be better off cuz you're going to be in control of it. And right now, you just spend until you run out.

And you're stuck at your parents' house at 24 years old.

And so, on top of that, on top of your post office job, I want you to go get a second job. You're 24, you're unattached, you're living at home. Go get a second job so you can start earning more money than just three or four grand a month, and you can sock that money away and begin to build yourself an emergency fund, begin to build yourself a financial cushion, so you can get your own place one day.

Yeah. And get your >> Right now is the time to work like crazy. Get your own life as soon as possible. As soon as possible.

Hannah is with us in Newark, New Jersey.

Hey Hannah, what's up?

>> [snorts] >> Hello Dave and John. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

My question is about charge-offs

and how long they stay on the credit report. Seven years from date of last activity.

Okay. All right. So, I have one in which it's recorded that

on my credit report, I paid it all I paid my last payment, not paid it off, but my last payment was in May of 2019,

and that's exactly the same month and year they closed it.

Okay. Closing it doesn't matter. The date the last date you paid on it or used it in any way, the last date there was any activity on the account, 7 years later, it will not be on your credit bureau report. Spoiler alert.

>> All right. Spoiler alert. That doesn't matter. They still will sue you.

Whether it's on your credit bureau report or not doesn't matter. They still It's still a legal debt.

Right. Dropping off your credit bureau report does not help you.

It only helps you go borrow more money.

Well, I'm not interested in borrowing any more money. >> I mean. That's why Dave says it doesn't matter.

But I just wondering but you but I would just wondering how long it takes to come off and you said 7 last years. 7 years from the date of last activity and they could choose to do a report on it and start the 7 years over because as at the in activity coming from them is also activity. So, what kind of debt is this?

Okay, well, it was credit card debt.

>> Okay, and and how much is it?

It's like 6,000 something.

>> And what do you make a year?

50,000. Okay, do you have any money at all?

No, not right now. Not right now. I'm trying to save up.

All right, after if it drops off in May and I don't think it will probably. It It usually they download the data on the credit bureaus once a quarter.

And so May would be the 7-year date and sometime in the following quarter it might drop off.

Okay? And if you called them and offered them $500 cash as settlement in full,

they might take it.

And that would clear up the debt.

It but it it wouldn't be paid in full, just settled. >> Settled in full and it'll be on your credit bureau as settled, a bad debt that was settled for 7 more years.

Doesn't keep you from doing anything, but it does keep you from getting another credit card hopefully for a while anyway.

But that'll get it actually out of your life to settle it with them. And super old credit card debt, they will settle for pennies on the dollar. Get it in writing and do not give them electronic access to your checking account if you're going to do that.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Corey is in Baltimore. Hi Corey, how are you? I'm well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so, I am currently trying to figure

out if it would be a good idea or if it's morally okay to um accept a position at a job knowing that I may be moving to another state or area

um as early as July and as late as December.

Okay, what what kind of a position are you talking about accepting?

So, I would be transferring from uh my current I work within a school um and I would be transferring to another building within the district uh but I don't want to take another I don't want to accept another position knowing that I may be gone you know, as early as July. I I heard that. What kind of a position are you talking about? You're asking me if it's morally acceptable to do this. What is it? I'm a social I'm a school social worker.

Okay, so if you take this, you're going to move from one school to another as a social worker.

Yes. Okay.

And so um well, a good a good way to test ethics is very simple.

Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. So, the supervisor and the principal at that school where you would be going if you were sitting in their seat how would you want Corey to handle this?

Uh I would want somebody who I is being forward with me and um you know

is being honest about the fact that it may happen or it may not happen if I move. >> what what is it what is it dependent upon? What what would cause the move to happen?

Uh accepting uh a job in in that area.

So, you're continuing to look for a different job while you took the new job but in a different state.

Yeah, we were looking to relocate in December. My my family and I. Yeah.

>> Oh. Does your wife have a job?

She Yeah, she does. In the new place?

No. So, we're both looking to relocate but that's kind of what is delaying us now cuz we haven't found anything in that area yet. I would take the job. The chances of this all working out on this timeline that you've imagined is slim and none right now. Neither one of you have a new job in the new place.

yet. >> Are you a finalist for a job in a new place?

No, it's just uh she's from that area so she we're wanting to move back down. So, right now it's just a discussion. Yeah, so where did you Where did you come up >> actually talked to anyone about being hired there yet. >> Yeah, where did you come up with July or or or December?

We We've um been applying places but we haven't gotten anything back but um

yeah, we we've been pretty active about it but haven't heard anything back.

Well, the answer to your question you answered the question yourself. The answer to your question is it morally acceptable to take the new job? The answer is yes, if you tell them I'm I think we might move, but I'm not sure yet. And I want to give you a heads-up on that before you give before you give me this position.

And then based on that, they have to make their decision as to whether they want you or not.

Mhm. In this school district, would that conversation cost you your job?

I don't think it would cost me my current job. What about the new one?

It could potentially cost me the new one. Okay, then stay where you are.

Is the new one more money or a promotion of any sort or is it just a different different location?

It would be a better work environment. Yeah, [clears throat] okay.

Well, I I I think you just have to be up front. I mean, that's how I would want to be treated if I was the principal at the new place. I don't want to go to the trouble of onboarding a guy, going through all the paperwork crap, everything else, knowing he's going to be gone in 6 months and he didn't tell me. Yeah. If you were going to work for a company I a hundred in an executive type role

I a hundred percent wouldn't hire you.

But if you're going to work for the local coffee shop as a barista well, they turn over like yesterday's underwear anyway.

So, it doesn't matter, right?

So, it depends on the environment that you're going into is high turnover situation. I mean, if you're going to work at Home Depot as a clerk, they're not expecting you to be there in 6 months anyway.

So, but here you're kind of making a commitment, so you need the people you're making a commitment to need to make their decision based on the actual knowledge of what's going on. Otherwise, yeah, you're misleading them and that is unethical. I agree with your I I think your conundrum. I think your heart was already telling you that, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah, and that's why you asked the question. You wouldn't ask the question if you didn't have conscience about it.

So But but I would also say like I'm trying to imagine I I worked in education for 20 years. If somebody came and sat down and said, "Hey, thank you so much for this opportunity. I want to be honest with you. My wife wants to move back to be around her family.

>> We haven't found anything. >> found anything. >> That might happen someday. It's going to take us both getting jobs.

It might be 6 months. It might be 6 years. But I just want to put that on the table that we do have a family vision of going back home one day. I I would say I'm going to I want you on my team for that level of integrity.

And I would take the gamble probably. It's not all going to work out in 6 months. Yeah. And so if if you're a great social worker, man, there's going to be schools lining up for you to come work for them.

So um that I yeah, I be honest, but also tell the whole story. >> let the chips fall where they fall. Yeah. You tell the story and then you can you can sleep at night.

You go, "Okay, they didn't want me because of that. I'll stay where I am." Fair. And so the price of me um the price of my integrity is I get to stay in this place that's let less less good environment. >> Sure.

While I look for a look for a new job in another state. >> That's right.

And that's always always always when you get to the end of your life a good thing that you did it.

Jayden is in Oklahoma. Hi Jayden, how are you?

Hi there. I'm very well. How about you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, well, I'm curious about if I'm being maybe a cheapskate about buying an

engagement ring. Yes.

75 [laughter] cents Dave & Buster's.

Turn the knob, brother. >> have to ask the question, you are. No, I'm kidding. I'm messing with you. So uh what are you thinking about spending?

Uh right now I'm I'm thinking about 4,000. >> Okay, and what do you make a month?

In a month, I make five. Okay.

That's okay with me. That's not cheap skating. I tell I tell people no more than a month's income.

The jewelry store tells you three months income, but they sell jewelry.

Kelly's producing the show right here. She just passed out.

You don't like that, Kelly? >> Okay. Um She wants about seven or eight months.

Wow. Okay. So, here's the thing. There is no direct correlation between the length and quality of the marriage to the expense of the ring.

As a matter of fact, there might even be an inverse correlation. That the more expensive the ring, the less likely you are to actually make it. Where is this cheapskate idea coming from? You or from her?

Or your buddies? >> It's It's more from her. She She's sent some some really beautiful rings, and they're more like the six, seven, eight kind of range, but we're both still in debt, and I'm could just trying to figure it out. All right.

Have you Have you had Okay. >> difference in four and six is not a deal breaker one way or the other. >> No. But, have you had that conversation with her?

Yeah.

>> sat down. No, the conversation underneath the conversation.

About, "Hey, we both owe a bunch of money, and I know you I would love to be able to buy you an eight, 10,000 ring. I don't have that kind of money. Do you Do you want me to save up and give you this like you Have you all had that conversation?" Maybe not in the way you're posing it. If you can have that conversation, it'll set you up to have a great marriage for the rest of your life. Yeah.

Because that's that's marriage right there. Being able to have the question that is actually the question beneath the the thing y'all are fighting about. >> Yeah. And here's the thing. It doesn't have to be forever, either. It's one ring. So, Sharon's is a uh her engagement ring is a point two three.

Means you can't even find it with a magnifying glass. It's so stinking small. >> about she bought low. Point >> She bought low. >> two three. >> She ROI'd that one, man. Yeah. Well, guess what? The thing she wears on her hand now is causing carpal tunnel syndrome. So, >> [laughter] >> um I only have one working hand now cuz I looked directly at it one time.

>> that you're bringing in Hollywood actors with. >> That's exactly right. >> But, yeah. But, the But yeah, we traded to .23 and it's in the safe. We kept it

for sentimental reasons, but not for value reasons. And and it's like it's worked for 44 years.

So, yeah, it Yeah, I think that the the conversation around it, Jade, is more than the cost.

Yes. Is more important than the actual cost in this situation. So, but somewhere around a month and four to six is somewhere around a month. You're right. If you told me 18,000, now we got a different problem. >> Now you're in Kellyville and that's a whole different level of drama.

>> oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Delony, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Ray is in San Jose, California.

Hi, Ray. How are you?

Hey, Dave. It's such an honor to talk to you. You, too. Um I have a question. Um

I am Well, a little backstory. I'm 36, newly married. I'm working on the debt snowball, trying to get my and my husband's new life in order. Um and I have a uncle who is 78 years old here in

California, who has asked me to be the executor of his will.

Um Um, that, he said he wants to bless me with his rental property in Arizona.

In that will, uh, it sounds great right off the bat, but I know you're the expert on, uh, real estate and I just while he's still here with us, um, is there anything that I should be prepared of? I I don't want to walk into a rude awakening um, when

he passes and, you know, if there's $8,000 left on the mortgage or any repairs or taxes and here I'm trying to clean up my life and I get stuck in a bear trap. >> Mhm, mhm. Okay.

All right. Does he own a lot of other assets as well?

Um, he has a, um, kind of like a elderly mobile home that he's leaving to a nephew of his and so I

kind of looked in the will and I said, you know, "Uncle, if there is a mortgage left, which is 8,000 as of today, uh, how would that be taken care of?" And he said, "Well, I would want you to use the money in my bank account." And I said, "Well, that's not in your will. So, um, the good news is we have a meeting with his, uh, estate planner in May. And so I kind [clears throat] of just wanted to call in this show and get my ducks in order to Okay. So, he's going to give you the property.

What was he going to do with the money in his checking account?

He, uh, with the mobile home was going to be the nephew. Oh, okay. So, the mobile home nephew would get the checking account and the mobile home.

The house in Arizona, does it have a mortgage?

It does. There's $8,000 as of today left

on it. >> the $8,000.

So, there's no money coming to you currently to pay off that mortgage.

Correct. From what he's saying is, "Oh, just use the use the money in my bank account." And I said, "Well, >> Well, then you'd have to leave me the money in your bank account.

Right. So, I'm like, "Let me call Dave and get my stuff in order So, the will needs to state that the cash, that $8,000 cash comes to you.

Other cash and and um any other cash above $8,000 and the mobile home go to the other nephew, your cousin, I take it.

And um then you have a paid for house that you're receiving. Do you have any idea what this house is worth?

Uh right now it looks like 300,000.

>> Okay. So, wonderful gift.

>> been to Arizona. Well, you're going to sell it. You're going to sell it right after he dies.

Correct. >> Yeah. And you're going to use it to have your life you and your new husband's life and you're going to pay off whatever debt you've got and or build wealth for you and your kids and your husband and you're going to go forward. We do not need a rental property in Arizona. So, an executor, if you look at the word executor, it has built into it the word execute.

Correct. >> So, your job, if you're the executor, is to execute what the will says. So, you're very wise to do what you're doing and make sure that you agree with what the will says and that Is there The only other question I've got is who's going to be pissed off that got nothing?

Uh he doesn't have a wife or any kids. It's just this um this nephew and myself that he says he could trust. Um What about your mom or dad, whoever's his brother?

Uh mom or dad, whoever He's a second uncle. So, um my dad My dad um

isn't left anything, so. Is Is that going to be a problem between you two?

Um let's be real, probably.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Okay, then you all need to talk about that before he dies.

Yeah. He needs to He needs to tell your dad that I'm leaving this to your daughter and I'm leaving this to your nephew.

Correct. Correct. >> So, because I don't want you to inherit drama. Your job is not to execute drama.

Your job is to execute his wishes in the will. And sometimes people don't they they they piss people off after they die rather than while they're alive.

And so that's the that is the case here.

So I would I would make this to where it's a slam dunk. There's no question.

Nobody's mad. If you're going to be mad at somebody you need to be mad at at the uncle while he's alive.

Right. Yeah. Not you. You didn't do anything.

>> I appreciate that. Last question. So when this property comes in and sold and the it's paid off then the only thing that comes out of the sale is the taxes of Arizona or any repairs to get this property up-to-date so it can sell and

um the real estate agent gets their half and we call it a day. Yep. Like not their half but they get a commission. Yes. Yes. Okay. >> it a day and there's no there is no income tax on this if you inherit it at

death and sell it within 6 months.

Market value is the basis so you won't have any income tax.

Okay. I didn't know you reset the basis.

>> Yep. Stepped-up basis on death. Yeah. I did not know that. So she's not going to pay capital gains tax. >> gains tax on it at all. If she holds it for 5 years and it goes up to 600 grand Then high taxes on the 300 increase.

Excellent. I didn't know that. Okay. >> Yeah, if you sell it within 6 months it's proposed it's supposed that you

that you sold it for market value and at time of death.

>> [snorts] >> Dave, would you sell it right away or would you just >> Instantly. Okay. Deal. You don't want to be a landlord You you don't >> There's no point at you have $300,000 piled in the middle of your table with the kitchen table and you went and bought a rental house in Arizona.

In a state you've never been to. >> Yeah, that's not even a not even a possibility. So >> [laughter] >> you know that and that's reverse engineering which is called a sunk cost analysis and that tells you don't do it.

Don't keep it. Don't keep it. Don't keep it. Don't keep it. This is how why people keep a We moved from Atlanta to Chicago and kept our house as a rental.

That's a landlord by default.

And that always is a recipe for bad things to happen. Like someone changing their Harley oil in your living room.

Yeah. [laughter] That's That's when this kind of crap happens right there. That's exactly what happens.

>> [laughter] >> Bad idea. Bad idea. So, yeah, you're right. You're approaching this with a lot of wisdom.

You're You're the executor. You're going to have to execute and you've already realized that what's in the will and there wasn't money to pay off your house because the will didn't state what happened to the checking account money.

And so now you're having that reworked with the lawyer. That's [snorts] wise. I would also just ask your uncle to call your dad and say, "Hey, I don't want you to be mad at anybody. I'm leaving this to your daughter and you need to be happy for her." And your uncle can do that and it'll keep your dad from getting himself twisted. And if he wants to get twisted, he can do it now instead of at you later and you don't get into all kinds of drama over a tiny little estate of

an old trailer plus 300 grand. And but Dave, we've taken the call where she's going to get 300 grand from the sale of this house and dad's going to be knocking on the door saying, "Where's my cut?" Yeah, I want some. Yeah. That's That should have been mine. That should have been mine. After all I've done for you and all that stuff starts and stuff.

>> So, you got to go ahead and just nip it in the bud. Nip it. Nip it. Nip it in the bud. >> what you say, Dave. If If If you need to have a hard conversation about your will, have the courage to do it while you're still alive. Don't be a coward. Yeah.

>> [music]

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>> When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to

free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth.

And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

>> [music]

>> The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Yrefi

helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget, so you can get back on the baby steps and move forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter Y, r e f i .com/ramsey. Might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Brittany in Rhode Island. Brittany writes, "My in-laws are very wealthy, but they did not save a single dollar for their kids' college expenses, and they will leave them a large inheritance when they pass away. They've told my husband and his siblings to expect to each receive close to $4 million after they pass away.

And my husband has over $40,000 in student loans.

Should I be happy that my husband will receive an inheritance later in life instead of help having help now?

Or is it okay to be annoyed that this debt could have been avoided if they had planned for their college differently?"

All right, here's what I want you to do, Brittany. I want you to go outside in the garage and open the car door in the garage and put your hand in it and just slam the door repeatedly.

Cuz that's about as useful as you spending 1 second of thought or energy

or feelings over this matter.

It just is what it is what it is. They made a decision that they wanted their kids to pay for their own college, and they get to do that. And cuz Dave, I guess she could be annoyed all she wants, but it's just a waste of time and energy and stories. You're about to be cut You're about You're going to get $4 million when they pass away.

Assuming you're still married. >> Yeah, exactly, [laughter] exactly. I I I don't know why anyone would spend a second of energy over this. His parents made a choice, and they clearly have done well for themselves financially. >> When you married your husband, you knew he had $40,000 in student loan debt.

And you knew his mom and dad. You just didn't know the numbers around it. Yeah.

Pay it off slowly. Just love them where they are.

They're your husband's parents, and they're not They don't do things the way you would do them. And uh welcome to in-laws. And um you know, you No, it's not okay to be annoyed. Mind your own business.

Yeah, my Yeah, that's good. Mind your business. Mind your own business. You can take care of you and your husband, and don't worry about what other people do.

You spend all your time being annoyed about what somebody else should What if I had $4 million? This is what I would do. Well, you don't have $4 million.

And you don't get to you don't get to make this choice. So, you make choices on based on what you want to do in your future.

And you don't know Britney that his parents didn't have three friends whose parents paid for their college and they watched their buddies do a bunch of drugs and and get kicked out of school and they told themselves from a place of value we want our kids to have skin in the game when they go to college and your husband chose to take out student loans instead of cash flowing it. And so, if you're going to be mad at somebody, be mad at him about it. But you don't know why they made the decisions they made.

And they're about to give you all $4 million. >> When they die. Relax. Yeah. Well, I don't even care if you get that or Choose joy, man.

>> Yeah, I'm just just this is work on um

controlling people that you can control which is you. >> And there's one of them.

>> [laughter] >> It's the one in your mirror. Yeah.

>> Yeah, and just move on. Oh my gosh.

No, I I I I think I think I think you got mother-in-law trouble and you're trying to get a get a logical reason why you're mad at your mother-in-law. >> I think she's got she's pissed off that they have to pay back this student loan.

>> pissed off at her mother-in-law in general and then this is gives her a reason to be. Yeah, I just that's no. Yeah, handle your business and get on with your life. Be grateful. Go, let it go. Frozen. Just let it go. Yeah. Dave's favorite movie and soundtrack.

>> [snorts and sighs] >> Glenn is in Anchorage, Alaska. Hey Glenn, what's up?

Hey, so I am self-employed uh and I have a variable income. So, I was wondering uh how many years I should stay self-employed if I uh notice with the economy that my income um is uh not enough to save for retirement.

Well, the variable's not a not not the problem. The problem is it's not enough.

Mhm. My income's variable, but I'm fine.

Yeah. So, the problem is not variable. The problem is you don't make enough, right?

Yes, uh I mean, you have a you have an occasional You have an occasional bonanza month, and then the rest of the months are just dry beans.

Mhm. And the total is still not enough to live on.

Uh it's enough to live on, but not to put away for retirement.

>> Well, that's living. You have to You have to plan for retirement, or you eat dog food.

So, I got to plan I got to plan for retirement. That's part of living. So, what do you make What do you You're You're self-employed, so you file your taxes. What is the profit of the business that you pay taxes on each year?

Um so, with currently with the assets that I've uh uh made >> Assets are not profit. What is the profit of the business that your tax

return would show me if I opened it up?

Um so, taxes are showing a negative, but

the like what goes in my banking account is So, last year was positive 13,000. The year before that >> Okay, the problem is you're living at the poverty level, sir. You need a job.

Okay. You're not making enough money to eat on. That's the thing. So, if your income taxes are showing negative, there's a reason. It's cuz you didn't make any money. And then what it amounts to is you got some depreciation or something that you're taking and that allows you to cash flow 13K, but overall

your assets are going down probably more than 13K, or you wouldn't be getting that depreciation. So, you're really not making a living. And if you can't see a way to triple that or quadruple that in the next 2 years, then you need to close this and go get a position where somebody will pay you 40, 50, 60,000 a year. You're going to feel rich.

If you got that happen if you made a below average income, you'd feel rich compared to what you're making now.

So, it's not the volatility, it's the lack of income overall.

And that's the thing you do. So, my friend Henry Cloud wrote a book called Necessary Endings. He said, "We end something, a job, a business, a relationship, a whatever, we end something when we lose hope that it's going to get better in the future." And so, if you're married to an alcoholic who you lose hope that they're actually going to get healed, that they're actually going to get dry and sober, you lose hope, then you have to end that relationship.

And cuz you can't continue to pour into the crazy world. In your case, you have to end this business because we've lost hope. For many years you've been doing this, and for many years you've been starving to death doing it. And unless you really can tell me there's a reason that I'm going to make 40,000 and not 13,000, or I'm going to make 50,000 and not 13,000, showing on my taxes that I

really made that in real money,

unless you see that, then you need to close this and get a job.

And I think you probably need to close it and get a job. That's what it sounds like. It's tough to do, though. Mark's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey Mark, what's up?

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking the time to take my call. Um I've got a little bit of a a question about uh income and and kind of providing for my family for the future.

Um long story short, my wife and I are

um missionaries who've come off the field, and we're transitioning back to the states. Um my wife is uh we have two kids, 14

and 12. My wife is um disabled, and

she's not really able to hold down a job consistently. Um but she's also, unfortunately, in a position where she doesn't qualify for disability. Um I just graduated from nursing school.

So, I did a 2-year program and I'll be starting a new job here.

And my my take-home pay every month is right around $4,000.

Um we're able to live because of the generosity of a local ministry here that provides housing to missionaries who are transitioning to and from the field. So, it's low-cost rent, basically. Um so, that we're able to kind of live.

As I look forward >> did you get an LPN and you pass your boards? Uh RN. It's a registered nurse.

>> Okay, so why are you making so little?

That's actually >> to a $95,000 a year job and you're making $48,000.

Uh well, it's about the highest offer I got, which is the highest the hospital system that pays the most, um is right about $70,000 a year. So, that's the take-home after >> To start, correct. Yeah, and I'm brand new. >> That's not $4,000 a month.

That's $7,000 a month before honest taxes.

What? What What I I only work 36 hours a

week. Um so, when you do the math, it's uh well, it's like $35 an hour >> [music] >> times 36 hours a week and then you factor in taxes, it's like $4,100 a month or something like that. >> Yeah, the great The great news is is you've entered a wonderful career and if you'll keep pushing and growing your career, you're going to go up in income dramatically. You could be making 150 within the next 3 years and in the meantime, you're going to end up renting for a little while and rebuilding your lives after the mission field, but you've got a good career field to win with.

[music]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes, but here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way, they

can take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But, don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to

ramseysolutions.com/taxpro

to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

>> Your personal and professional growth can hinge on this one thing as much as anything else. The one [music] thing is communication skills.

And the good news is that's a skill you can develop. That's why I'm excited about this new book that I've done called top stop talking, start communicating. It's now available for pre-order and it's paired with the DISC assessment. So, it uses your results on the DISC assessment to help you adapt

your communication style so you can build trust and connection and influence. If you think about how how other people are thinking, it helps you communicate directly to them. I took this DISC 40-something years ago the first time. And I took it home.

I told Sharon I said, "Look at this thing. It's absolutely amazing." It tells She read it and she's like, "Yeah, that's what's wrong with you." And I went, "No, that is me." >> [laughter] >> So, and we use it here at the office after we hire when we're hiring people and we can walk up to someone's office and there's a DISC their DISC profiles on their wall right before you walk in so you know who you're talking to. So, pre-order today $34.99 and you get $30 worth of pre-order items which includes an extra assessment which is good for the spouse or friend and that kind of thing.

Stop talking, start communicating. Scott

is in Atlanta.

Hey Scott, how are you?

Great. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I see on my screen you're a Baby Steps Millionaire, man. What's your net worth?

Uh 4.3. Way to go, man. Give me a little breakdown on that.

How's that break out category-wise?

So, 2.7 is retirement, um which is

uh 401s, mutual funds, Roth.

Um 725 is the house, and then 918 in

other mutual funds and some common stock. Cool. How old are you?

66. 66. And how much of this 4.3 million

did you inherit?

Um my wife and I each got around $20,000

when our parents passed away.

Were you already millionaires when you got that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, cool.

So, you're not millionaires because of inheritance.

Uh uh uh uh Not even close. Yeah. So, what was your career?

I was a salesperson. Okay. What about your wife?

She's a dental hy- a retired dental hy- We're both retired, but she's a dental hygienist. >> Got you. Okay. You have a a 4-year degree?

I do. I have a and a master's. Okay, in what? Business?

Yeah, MBA. An MBA, okay. What was your GPA?

Well, in undergraduate, it was not stellar. I'll I'll admit to that. Um but in graduate school, it was 3.35. Okay, 3.35. All

right, cool. All right, so you're smart, but not a genius. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> No, you had fun when you were 19, like you're supposed to. Good for you. Good for you, man. Yeah. So, uh do you think that if uh so you're 66, you're my age, I'm 65.

If someone's out there that's 25 and they're listening, do you think they can still become a millionaire starting from nothing like you did today?

You bet. You know, it's it's pay yourself first, stay employed, stay invested.

Okay, cuz you got over half, about 60-something percent of

your net worth is in your retirement account.

Yes. >> You're worth $4 million. Your house is 725,000.

Mhm. Yeah, it's not not 7.2 million house. It's 725,000 house in Atlanta,

Georgia.

Well, I live in north Georgia, but yeah, in the south. I think I live in Yeah, so you have a nice home, but it is not a mansion.

No, and and that that when we built this house, we built during COVID.

Had no intentions of having that kind of house. It just it turned into it because of rampant building costs for that

2-year period when we were building.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, but the house is worth that now, isn't it?

It's worth seven and a quarter now, right? It is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Good. Good for you. Well done. Well done. Okay, so what advice would you have for your 25-year-old self? You should that live on stay stay employed and keep investing, I think I heard?

Mhm. Yeah, stay employed, pay yourself first.

Um get some term, you know, good term insurance.

What what do you drive? What do you drive?

Well, I just bought a brand new truck.

What did you buy? I bought a GMC Denali. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, we got our wife or I we got a we got her a Honda Pilot. Okay, very good. Very cool.

All right, so a GMC Denali and a Honda Pilot. And you're worth $4 million.

Good. Not a Lamborghini.

No. No. No.

>> [laughter] >> I've got a real fan got a real fancy boat. It's a John boat. There you go.

It's my favorite kind of boat.

>> [laughter] >> All right. Hey Scott, let me ask you this. You've been a salesman Have you been a salesman your whole career?

More or less. I started it while I was in the in the army. You know, out of college I went in the army. Okay.

And made a whopping 12,000 a year Right.

at that time. You know, again that was >> What's the most you've ever made in your life in a year?

Uh family 200. Okay.

So when you're a a first starting out salesman, you've got real good months and real tough months. How did you have the discipline or what mindset did you have to keep investing during those times? Cuz that those would be times that I'd be tempted, especially when I'm younger trying to support a family, that I'm going to hold off. I got an up and down income. I'm going to hold off on the investing. Um I might put some in savings when I have a really good month, but you you started investing early.

Yeah, I was a I ran believe it or not um

as a young lieutenant um a Templeton

salesperson showed up at the at at the

at in my quarters and sold me some life insurance, some term life insurance that I'd never heard of, and a mutual fund.

And you know, and I was like, well, I don't plan I don't have any kids. I'm not married, but you know, if I am something happens and I'm in the military, I'll give my parents something. And that sort of started the whole process, you know, the the concept of monthly investments.

And you know, the over the 40 years it's been uh you know, I've been through a lot of we, Dave and I, have been through a lot of downturns in the market and you just don't panic. Stay in. Hm.

Absolutely. >> I love it, man. Congratulations. >> Congratulations, Scott. You're a baby steps millionaire, an icon. You give inspiration to everybody out there listening that this still can be done.

The great American dream is not dead.

Stay off of TikTok.

Yeah, and keep investing and keep employed. Keep investing and keep employed. I think he said that like four times. And then just keep working and keep investing and keep working and then you'll look up and you can do anything you want to do. Because you understand his income is off of these investments is $400,000 a year.

And his highest income he ever made was $200,000. And to all of the regular

people, not the TikTok people, the regular people listening, I want y'all to hear at 4. what? 4.2 4.2 4.3 million dollars,

a paid for house, retired, they went to buy their fancy car and his wife got a Honda Pilot. Right? Like it's like you said, it's not this fancy BMW. And those aren't bad or wrong or anything, but there is a sense of that's a family that has is at peace with where they are and what they are.

>> Yeah. >> something reliable and I'll guarantee you she got a Honda Pilot cuz it's grandma car. It's going to be yeah, it's going to be the car they drive for the rest of for the rest of their life. >> put the grandkids in it. A lot a lot of room. Yeah. One of those grandkids is going to take that car one day.

Probably. Probably. That Denali will be on the side of the road by the end of the weekend, but I'm just kidding. I just needed to make a GMC joke there. >> Yeah, it didn't work. No, it's a great joke. It's a great truck. Yeah.

So, folks, the bottom line, the reason we bring the baby steps millionaires on here all the time is because 89% of America's millionaires, that's nine out of 10, are millionaires not because of inheritance.

79% received zero.

5% received a small amount like five or $10,000. Another 5% received a substantial amount, but after they were already millionaires and in his case, in Scott's case, he received a small amount after he was already a millionaire. So, he did get an inheritance, but a 79% and 5% is 89. That's nine out

of 10 millionaires are not millionaires

because of inheritance. That's data.

And if you don't agree with that fact, you're what's known as wrong.

So, quit telling people that they can't do this. Compound interest >> [music] >> and self-discipline and living on less than you make and living on a budget and being in agreement with your spouse actually freaking works.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4:19, "My God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus." Our friend Art Laffer says, "I never heard of a poor person spending himself into prosperity." Let alone, I've never heard of a poor person taxing himself into prosperity.

There we go. Christopher is with us in Seattle. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

I'm doing good. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Hey, so um my wife and I our total

household income is $201,000.

Um and I am going to be running for a

representative position in my district and it does come with a $34,000

pay cut since I would be quitting my job

of my my current career. And so,

financially, I know that we can do it.

We're nearing the end of baby step three. Um and my wife agreed that I should get involved locally in our political realm here. And um I'm just struggling

uh with the mindset of the fact that we are losing uh $34,000 and it feels like I'm in a way letting down uh myself and my family.

So, I'm just trying to figure out how to uh cope with that.

Mhm. Are you Are you running for a representative seat because you want to see change and you want to be that change and you're want to get involved in your local community?

Are you doing this to to uh just

cuz you hate working?

Uh no, I I absolutely love my job. Um but I do want to be a part of the change and to help motivate others and tell and let everybody know that it takes all of us to create this change. >> me Let me ask you. I'm sorry. I You're a representative of what level?

The state level?

Yes.

Okay. Most state representatives have a full-time job.

Oh, I was unaware of that.

Almost everyone if all the ones I know personally have full-time jobs.

I I don't they don't make much money and they have to.

Now, I don't know if that's true in the state of Washington or not.

Yeah. But um you might want to investigate that. I'm not sure that a state representative is a full-time job.

Okay. I could definitely do that research then. I'm not sure. I mean I know in our state, I know most of the representatives in in a lot of them in our state. I know a whole bunch of them in our immediate area certainly and all of them have jobs. They have to cuz they don't make much um at the at the state

level. >> Christopher, you said you does your wife make 170 and you make 35?

Uh [snorts] no. Um I make 101,000 and she makes uh 100,000 pretty much. Okay, so each of you make about 100 but you're going to drop down to 65 if you take this role.

Yes. Okay. All right.

So, I like the idea of bringing back just call me old-fashioned public service being a service. That's when I'm going to I I at net loss to myself, I'm going to be in service to my community and you've got your wife's supporting and backing and I I think >> You have 165,000 our household income.

Yeah, nobody nobody's starving. I think this is a noble thing. >> choice you made and nobody thrusted upon you. You don't have to do it.

So, there's no reason to have to cope with it emotionally.

Um if you if you if you was like if you got demoted and you lost and you went from 100 to 65, you might have to emotionally cope with that loss. >> Or if your wife was a stay-at-home wife with three kids and this is going to put y'all y'all couldn't pay your bills, then you'd have a hard decision to make. >> a $165,000 income net net, I don't know that there's anything to cope with. I would spend zero seconds coping and all of my energy on being the best public servant I could be.

And figuring out if this really is a full-time job. Yeah, that's the other thing. And I don't know what that means to your current career and those sorts of things. >> me let me say it this way.

If your identity is in a number you bring home versus value you provide to other people and in your relationships, you have an issue whether you're like you already have that issue. If your if your identity is I make as much money as my wife or I make this many dollars, I make this magic number called six figures and somehow that makes me better or able to like myself more, you're going to have bigger issues across the board, brother. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, but I don't I don't think that's what's going on. It was more like it was cuz he's really reaching to do something here that >> awesome, yeah. >> Yeah, that that's um a noble call. Yeah, but if it clashes with this idea that I also have to make this much money or I'm not a good husband or a good man, I think that's Well, that's true.

>> Lean into the service, man.

Josh is in Nashville. Hey, Josh, how are you?

Hey, Dave, I'm doing great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, I was hoping you'd say that.

Um yeah, hey, I uh recently moved to Nashville area.

I'm from Southern California like so many people here that I've met. And um yeah, right when I moved here I was sort of caught off guard um by my business partner saying, "Hey, we should sell the business." And so something I wasn't really prepared for mentally or financially.

Um so that's something I'm kind of working through right now. Um In addition to that I'm also in the process of selling a bunch of our real estate. So most of our wealth right now is in real estate just to free up more cash.

And I'm I'm not sure I can do this, but I I'm trying to understand if I can create the option to be work optional based on our assets.

So, I'm just calling to see what >> will you get out of all the real estate and now the sale of the business? What's the big number?

Yeah, so the the business should net me about 1.5 and then the real estate another two and then I have So, 3.5 million.

Mhm, and then I have about 500 in a taxable brokerage and then one other

potential source of liquidity could be our house. We have about a $2.3 million house with a $700,000 note on it.

Um so, we could go downsize there as well.

Or you could just pay off the note, either one. All right, so you got like 3 million bucks to work with, give or take, depending on what we do with the house and the note. All right. Mhm. Uh or 4 million, you know, so uh um you know, if you invest that in good growth stock mutual funds, the S&P 500 has averaged 11.8% since it began.

Um that's the stock market average, in other words. And so, if you pulled off 10% off of $4 million, you'd have 400 grand.

If you pulled off 8%, you know, you'd have 320,000. What do you need to live?

Yeah. Yeah, right now not not a whole lot. Maybe about $10,000.

Uh not quite 10,000, maybe $8,000 a month. Okay. So, $120,000 a year.

Which is like mo- your money's still growing if it's invested in mutual funds and doing nothing but sitting there.

That's if you don't do anything else with business and you don't do anything else with real estate.

Yeah. Part of my question, I'm 44. Yeah. Well, you're going to need to do something.

Yeah. Yeah, I know I understand that.

>> It's not fun. Life's not fun. I mean, you're you're not going to have fun if you don't do something. You've been doing things your whole life. Now, do you have to be stressed out and desperate? No. But I mean, you're an entrepreneur, you've grown businesses, you've built wealth. Um it's going to take you about 13 seconds to be bored.

Um, yeah, I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, one of the one of the things that's kind of playing around in my head is am I employable? Like what

what could I look like to get a job?

I've never had a job since I was 24. I wouldn't.

>> Last thing I would do.

Uh, you know, I would just do consulting work for somebody if you you know, show somebody how to do what you know how to do, or I'd go build a business of some kind, buy some buy a business, start a business, um, or I'd buy some other real estate. But you need to put your hand to something. Um, uh, you know, otherwise you're just going to get fat and go fishing.

And that's not a good plan. And so you're you're you're not going to be you're not going to like yourself. So, I just you've been doing too much. Now again, you don't have to do 70 hours a week, 80 hours a week. Um, but you don't need to be a Walmart greeter, dude. I mean, that's not that's not the stage you're that's not who you are. And so, don't do that. Don't set yourself up for that. But yeah, that's fine. Yes, you are work optional, but in

terms of the actual arithmetic, but not your spirit. Spirit is not work optional.

I don't find retirement in the Bible.

No, I I I often tell folks who are older than you by a decade or two who are retiring, who are looking for I don't know what to do next, go spend two or three months at a local charity, just showing up every day and serving people.

And if you have the entrepreneurial mind

now that you've had for the last 15, 20 years, you will spin up 15,000 ideas on people you can help and people you can love and businesses that will work to support those folks. And so, that's what I would do. >> Yep. >> There's all kinds of things you can do. But you got to have a purpose. A business that wins is always serving.

Always. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the [music] Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 150. Stop Letting Emotions Drive Your Money Decisions | April 30, 2026


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Normal is broke and common [music] sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey [music] Show. And I am Rachel Cruze hosting this

hour with Jade Warshaw and we are going to be answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225. [music]

The phone lines are open and we are ready to talk about your life and your money. So, we're going to start off with Scott in [music] Pensacola, Florida. Hi Scott, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um, so I'm 20 I recently turned 21. I bought a house in December.

Uh, I got married in January and I got a kid on the way due in September. >> Whoa. Big big life event, Scott. Doing it all.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I got about oh, 27,500 on a vehicle loan that I'm 10,000 upside down on and I got

10,500 on personal loans.

Uh, 1,900 on a four-wheeler that I've sold and paid as much as I could off what I sold it for on to. What was that 1,900 on what?

Uh, four-wheeler. That's how much I got left. Okay. >> I sold the four-wheeler in January and paid what I sold it for on to the loan.

Got it.

And then I got about 2,000 in credit cards. Okay.

And I'm on step two of the program, but I want to get rid of the car, but I don't feel like it'd be a smart Well, I know it'd be smart to get rid of the car payment, but I don't have anything to replace it right now. >> And I ain't got 10,000 to pay the negative on it. Do you have any cash?

Anywhere? Uh I got I got a thousand. The thousand, okay, so you got the baby stuff on it.

>> Yeah. Um what about your wife? Does she have a a vehicle that's reliable?

That is the vehicle.

Okay, and then what do you drive?

>> so I kind of I guess I inherited her debt. I only have like 13,000 but her car on her personal loan.

And what do you drive?

Uh I got a an old truck that it's worth $4,000. Got it. >> got a company truck so I don't it just

Okay, so that 4,000 is sitting there, but you also have a company truck.

Yeah. Okay, so she could drive the old truck if you sell this car.

It needs a lot of work.

But that's not the question. Could she drive it if you got rid of this car?

>> for 6 months? >> Uh-huh. And you just do a little work on it, yeah? So then I would I would if I were in your shoes I'd go down to the credit union and I'd get a $10,000 loan. Uh cuz I'd rather you be paying off 10,000 than 27,000.

And then that way um when the buyer comes to buy this car from you for 27,000, you can put the other or for yeah, for 27,000, you can put the other 10 with it >> Mhm. and have the whole 37 that it's worth. Yeah, cuz you just dropped your debt you know, obviously by by significant I mean you'll have $23,000 of debt left after you do that.

Um and that's as much as what the car >> You know what I mean? The car loan itself is. Um so yeah, it makes a significant dent. It's going to be um it may be a little inconvenient at times, kind of annoying, but um but it gets you guys a whole lot closer to that goal of being debt free.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz then you've got the the you said the four-wheeler was 1,900?

That's how much I would have left on the loan. And then the 2,000 on the The cards, was there anything else?

Uh 2,000 in personal loan, I forgot that's in her name. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

And how much do you guys make a year, Scott? Uh I make about 80,000 before taxes. 80 before, okay. >> she makes probably 30.

And she makes 30. What does she What does she do?

Uh dental assistant. Okay. Yep. And she's pregnant, is that what you said?

Yes. When When is she due?

Uh September. Okay.

Um So, I would make that I would make that exchange of the car and then

we have something called stork mode, Scott, that when you are expecting a baby, um it's good to have a bigger emergency fund than just a thousand dollars cuz you know there's an event coming that could cost more.

Um So, there's a part of me that would say I would go ahead and do the truck. I would sell it, go ahead and get that taken care of and then from then on

between now and September, um which will fly, it'll be here before you know it.

Uh Okay. >> what, four months? So, I would stock pile cash in these next four months. I actually would not be paying down on the debt.

I would stay current on everything. Make sure But I would I would be intense like you are paying this off, right? Cuz you're on such a great rhythm. You've done baby step one, you're on baby step two.

Um but I would put that money aside just like in a high-yield savings account and just don't touch it and make sure she's good, baby's good, everyone's good. And then when she comes home, um I mean, if you could save eight grand even between now and then, right? I mean, 2,000 extra a month if you could put away.

right? Like you can start and you could knock off some stuff pretty quick in September. Uh which is awesome. And then you would just have the $10,000 loan from the credit union and then the other $10,000 personal loan. So, you have 20 grand and then you guys can be completely debt free by the end of 2027.

That's the goal, but Are you It feels It feels kind of far out of reach, but I don't It really ain't even that much. It's just It's overwhelming. Are you doing any extra work? Are you side hustling or anything like that?

Uh weekends, overtime. Okay. I Yeah, I'd pick up as much as that so that to Rachel's point, you can stock as much money up. And if I were you, I'd also look into insurance and find out at the very least you want to make sure that you've got your out-of-pocket maximums covered, right?

Those are the numbers I'd be looking at if I knew I was having a baby I'd want to have that covered for the family just to make sure that you have that.

I said insurance is covered. I have really good insurance. You do? There's no There's no deductible?

Uh $30 deductible.

For the whole year?

Well, I've never I've been to the hospital a couple times. I've never had a deductible. It's only been like a $30 copay. Okay, I want you to check into that.

Check into I want you to check two things. I want you to look at the the deductible and then I want you to look at the out-of-pocket max. And just call them up and ask them. Say, "My wife's having a baby.

I just want to know what's the deductible I'd have to meet before insurance kicks in for this baby." And same thing for the year, I want to know what's the max amount of money I'd have to pay out of pocket if for some reason there were complications or anything like that. And just get those numbers.

>> Yeah, I was going to say >> [laughter] >> he said I have good insurance, so it sounds like it.

Oh, Scott, that's great. Are you Are you both on the same page, you and your wife? Do you feel like you guys are kind of tracking financially?

>> We haven't got joint bank accounts yet and combined everything. I mean, we're really jointly on stuff Yeah.

together. We We haven't >> But you guys are both mindset of like let's save money, let's get out of debt, like we're going to turn this all around.

Yeah, we want to make a life for our kids that we didn't have. >> It's awesome. Scott, you're doing a great job. You're such a great You know, you're going to be a great dad.

You're a great husband. I mean, honestly, and let me just tell you these quick wins are It's going to help build confidence because it sounds like up until this point, until recently, you haven't been intentional and focused on your money. You know, you have personal loans here and there, credit card debt, car loan. You guys have just kind of been living normal.

And now, I mean, you're pretty grown-up. You know, you're a homeowner, you're married you got married. Like, I mean, all of this is happening. And I'm so thankful that you're starting this process now, Scott, at your age, honestly, um because if you guys do this, if you do the baby steps, you get out of baby step two, you save up an emergency fund, you guys start funding retirement, right?

All of this could be in the next uh 24 [music] months. Right. And you start this now and you stay that consistent pattern, you guys will retire multimillionaires. [music] Like, it will be so incredible the family tree that is changed because of you and your wife and what you guys [music] are deciding to start today.

So, keep at it. Call us back if you need us.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Next up, we [music] have Susan in Madison on the line. Hi, Susan.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

Um so, I am 33 years old on a single income with a razor-thin budget. Um I've

set up an EveryDollar budget and an envelope system. I've been through Financial Peace University twice. Um but, I keep falling into emotional spending and end up overspending pretty much every month. What would you recommend to someone who understands the plan but struggles to follow it consistently because of emotional or impulsive spending habits? And are there any like structured resources or programs to help with that emotional

side of it?

So, when you say emotional spending, can you give us a a quick uh example of exactly what that looks like? Is it, you know, you're going to Target and you're getting a bunch of tchotchkes you don't need? Is it you gamble on DraftKings? Like, tell us tell us what it is.

[laughter] Yeah, so like, for instance, I'm just going through some really intense family issues right now. So, um I don't know to feel better you like go out and have a personal day like to go to the movies or maybe go get my nails done um just to have like a self-care day, but because my [clears throat] budget is so thin I mean I I barely have enough money to go out and see a $10 movie. Yeah. Are you working on the baby steps specifically?

Like are you working towards getting out of debt or building up an emergency fund?

Yeah, so I have my emergency fund set up and I am working on baby step two. It kind of feels like I've been on baby step two for like 10 years. Oh, yeah.

Well, that's exhausting mentally if you don't feel like you're making progress.

That'll That'll eat away at you. So how much debt do you have left to pay off?

Um so I have a personal loan at about 10,000 um and then I have a credit card with about 3,000 on it. Okay. Um I am in a a

sticky situation which I know you guys never say to do. Uh my mom purchased my house and she's been my bank.

And um long story short we're we're selling it right now, so that mortgage

quote-unquote will be will be gone um and then it'll just be the um

the 10,000 loan and the the credit card with about 3,000 on it. >> Okay. Is there any equity?

Um there is, but unfortunately the house never got put into my name like it was supposed to, so I don't have any legal standing to anything on that house.

>> going to keep the money that you Have you been paying the mortgage?

I've been paying everything, yeah. And your mom's not going to give you a piece of the pie?

Um well, it I I I asked for it um and

I never really got a full answer and then through the grapevine of my sister it sounds like, "Oh, well, I'll put it in the account so I can see how you spend it. What? >> It's like yeah, kind of >> How much is the equity?

How much? >> It wouldn't be much. It would maybe be like 30 to 40,000 dollars something like >> That's much. That's much for someone who's in debt.

Uh yeah, it would it would clear my debt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, it would more than clear your debt cuz didn't you just say you have 10,000?

Uh you only have 13,000, right? Unless there's more that we don't know about.

No, no, that's it. Yeah, had had she bought the house and it had and you have

not lived in it and then you've lived in it for a short period of time and paid it or like what's the story on the house? And I'm I'm getting somewhere with this. That's why I want to know.

Yeah, yeah, so the purpose was for me to get into this house to build some equity to kind of set myself up for financial freedom because I don't make a lot of money. Um I make about $50,000 a year.

Um and so that was the the point of me

moving in. Well, it was a little bit more than I could take on, I think, um

for how much I make. And so we never

really got a solid number down of how much I would pay her quote-unquote mortgage cuz she just paid in cash. She had money to to pay in cash.

>> Okay. Um so that number never got set and right now it's a really small number of $300, but I'm paying property taxes, insurance, everything else to upkeep with the house. Okay. That's a little different. >> So Yeah, yeah. >> $300 to your mother for how long?

Uh two and a half years, about two and a half years.

Okay. Yeah. Well, I'm wondering cuz here's the here's my thing, Susan, is any amount of money at this point is going to help you. I mean, you you just said I can't afford a $10 movie.

Like when you don't have that much like everything is important. So I almost would do the math and be like, okay, for 2 years, um this is what we've been paying, you know, it'll be like I don't know 15 between >> Yeah. Yeah, 12 and 15,000. Uh, here's the property tax.

Um, and let's say it's a say say she she cashes out at 30,000 and maybe for you,

you've put in 20 with everything said and done, okay? That means Mhm.

I could see a very reasonable conversation is, "Hey, Mom, the the house went up in value. I have helped support it. Not all the way, cuz to your point, you probably you were not paying market rate. She was giving you a great deal. Um, but to a point, I have been putting money into this that has caused, you know, that that the equity has gone up.

So, after realtor fees and everything is said and done, whatever is left, here's what I've put in. Could I at least get that part out in the equity and you keep the rest of the equity?" That would at least be a conversation I would have because $20,000 >> Mhm. you know, that that's pretty life-changing for you at this point.

>> Who put the down payment on the house? >> Yeah. Or there was none? >> Um, so there there wasn't really a down payment cuz um, her and her husband paid cash.

I mean, they're they're they have like an upwards of like $20 million. So, You know, I think I'm changing my stance on this because what it sounds like is you were just a renter at a really low rate. I don't think that you ever owned any part of this to really have access to any of the equity. I think that she bought the house, she bought it in cash, and she only charged you $300 rent in a in a full length home for 2 and 1/2 years.

I think I think that You're a renter.

>> Um, but back to the fact >> even if the big our our original like texts and emails and everything was, "This was going to be your house and the title was going to go into my name." >> was never anything that upheld that. If you were really doing that, you'd have to show that. You You I don't know. I wasn't there, but if you didn't kick anything into the down payment or kick anything to the initial purchase of the house, even if she bought cash, and if you did not even at least meet the a regular mortgage or do you see what I'm saying?

>> rent, the yeah, market value. Yeah, and there's nothing in writing here.

uh documenting the situation well for both of you. >> 100%. And for that reason, I I just let

it let it ride.

>> Yeah, that's probably fair, Jake. Okay, so my question would be why is she why why did this deal go south?

Uh so she basically wants to take the money now and do something else with it.

Okay. Is what it comes down to. So and

because I don't I don't have the law on my side, I just kind of have to now figure out what to do. Yeah, so you're going to take So you will have to pay rent and it's going to be more than 300.

Um so that will eat into your budget as well. What is your budget? What's your monthly take home?

Um it's about 2,600 a month after taxes. What's your What kind of work do you do?

Um I work for a healthcare organization.

I do like back end like admin stuff um for providers. Okay. Is there a way

$2,600 is slim, slim.

>> Well, and that doesn't feel like like like did you get a big tax refund?

No. Hm. I think like 400 bucks or so. >> any money going Is any Is any money going into 401k retirement?

Um I think so. Um I get like the

Wisconsin state pension. So it's just like an automatic thing that comes out.

Yeah, yeah. >> But nothing beyond that. Okay. Um so yeah, when with this equation, I mean I want to quickly hit what you talked about on on emotional spending before we get into this because that's a huge part of this.

You really don't have the money to You don't have the margin to emotional spend and we don't have enough margin to put towards this new life that's going to come where you're paying more than $300 of rent.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Most people don't struggle with money because they can't do math. They struggle because they don't stick to a plan. And when your bank makes your money feel confusing or hard to track, plans fall apart fast. And that's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union and their mobile app because let's face it, most banks build systems that make it easy to swipe and hard to stay organized.

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One of our favorite things to do is when people share their stories on how they're winning. We love to share it with you guys cuz there's people walking this journey just like you. And so we actually got a quote in about our EveryDollar app. It was a review and it said love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband which The

money >> marriage peace. Yes. Is so hard and so yes, doing a budget together when you're married is so helpful. When you have actually a tool that helps you do it, that's what we what we love and that's why we love EveryDollar. And she goes on. She says and we've implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're on the same page. So it's amazing. So amazing. And it does it it I

wouldn't say it's like you'll have no fights with your spouse about money by any means but it does limit >> That's right. >> and the questions you have especially if you're married. It's it's so it is it's so transparent and you're working together with with each other on it which is so so important. That's again why EveryDollar is awesome and you each can have like the login information so you're if you change something on one app, it changes on the other app on your on your spouse's app on their phone and all of it.

Like it it is awesome. We love it.

All right, let's go to Birmingham and we have Samantha on the line. Hi Samantha.

Hey Erin. Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um I have a question. I wanted to know what I can do to help my husband stop financially helping his parents. Oh boy.

Ooh, we got a How long does your husband help his parents? Okay, so what's going on?

>> Yeah.

So, um, my husband is a contractor

and both him and his we

we have our small business and he, uh, makes good money, but

um his parents tend to kind of fall back where they need to whenever they know that he'll kind of just make up make up the back end. How like how much?

How much is he giving them every month?

A a lot of money, like $8,000 a month.

Holy smokes. Wait, your your husband is giving his parents $8,000

a month?

Just about. >> For how long? How long's that been going on? This has been going on for probably

3 months. 3 months. How much do y'all bring in a month, Samantha?

Um, we are 1099, so I don't really know how much we bring in a month. We filed $240,000 last year. Why don't you know how much comes in a month? Do you guys have a personal budget that you guys plan your household from? Or when you look at your checking account?

It varies.

Because one month he probably won't make $10,000 and then the next month he'll make $50,000.

Okay. >> Okay. Um So. Wow. Okay, so

um, I'm I I probably won't concentrate on this call just cuz from a time perspective on his parents' situation.

That's that's their thing. What who's

Yeah, really in the Well, to say in the wrong because he's not agreed with his wife on where their money's going is your husband. So, what are those conversations like? What happened? Did 3 months ago he said, "Hey, mom and dad are falling behind. Can we help?" And you're like, "Yep, absolutely." And he just keeps doing it?

Was it even talked about? Did he ask you? Like, what happened?

He asked me and I'm okay with helping them out. Sure. >> every so often, but my thing is when it's consistently an issue and you're consistently doing it and you don't they

they don't make up the edge. They don't have to work if they don't want to is my problem. Okay, so your problem >> spend all their money knowing that my husband's going to make up for it.

>> So, it's entitlement that you have an issue with. My question is you said it's okay one time.

Have you Has he continued to come back to you these other months and asked and you've just gone along with it or have you said no and he's done it anyway?

Oh, I've said no multiple times.

>> Okay. And $8,000 is a massive gap. Did something happen in their life? Did they lose Did Did one of them lose a job? Or what's happened in the last 3 months where they've needed this money? They They both work.

Well, what's hap- What's changed in 2026 cuz you weren't doing this in 2025. So, what changed 3 months ago? What What happened in February that caused them to call you?

I think it's the fact that um they just spend all their money.

Right, but did But what changed? Did you guys >> Nothing that I know of has happened. >> Okay, how long have you guys been married?

Um 8 years. And how long has the business been doing well?

Um probably about 2 years. Okay. Something either they got

wind of the fact that the business was doing well. Something changed that suddenly this has become kind of just like a a vending machine for them. But, the good news is uh to Rachel's point, that's neither here nor there. You get to stop this behavior.

And either something's going on with your parents that your husband is not letting you know that you're just unaware of, or it's just as simple as saying I don't want to do this anymore, and you setting up that boundary with your husband of saying, "I've said no to this. I've said no to this on multiple occasions. You've continued to do this anyway.

And I'm not going to I'm not going to have that, right? So, Right.

>> that conversation needs to happen immediately. Otherwise, it's going to be you guys against each other. >> [laughter] >> at this point, that's a marriage issue between you and your husband that he doesn't listen to you, that he doesn't respect what you're talking about, and that there's no It doesn't sound like there's a back and forth. Cuz I'm not saying every husband has to be like, "Okay, whatever." to his wife, "Do whatever you want." And same with the wife, that she doesn't need to look at her husband and be like, "Whatever you want." No.

There could be some back and forth here.

Um, and so, and the problem is that he needs to understand is that throwing money at a situation that isn't changing, to your point, is not helping them. It's not. Cuz it This will continue to be a pattern for the rest of their lives if they had anything to do with it, is what it sounds like.

It's one thing And again, I'm not against helping family, right? Like, if they had a medical issue where there was a job loss and you could financially fill in the gap and you wanted to, that's great. >> In fact, it's uh, um, How old are they?

Um, 50s, mid-50s.

>> Yeah, that's crazy. And they have jobs, you said. So, I I if I'm you, I'm sitting down with my husband tonight, and I'm saying, "Here's my >> See, is I say I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I stay with our children. >> Uh-huh. >> So, my husband is the only person that brings in the money in the >> Doesn't matter, Samantha. It's your household.

You're both married. You both are That's what I'm saying. I I don't >> that over you?

I'm trying No. No.

>> Okay, good. We uh have agreed, you know,

that we've done it too many times recently. But I feel like it's going to happen again whenever it and they're just going to keep on and keep on and keep on and ask me and I feel like it's just going to continue to go on >> But why won't he talk about it and said no? >> And that And that's my question. I wanted to know why when we uh pushed you on that, why you brought up the fact that you're a stay-at-home mom.

I want to understand that a little bit more. Do you feel like you don't have the right to say? Or do you feel like he has the right to make the choice?

Uh to He doesn't He He pretty much asked me cuz I pretty much Uh he includes me on everything except for this.

>> Okay. >> But and I don't feel like I don't want to say I'm not included.

Well, I feel like I'm not included. I'm It sounds like he tells you what he's going to do.

And that's the inclusion. >> my back.

He's been behind my back the last two times. Oh, he hasn't even told you when he's doing it. You just found out.

Right. >> You got to include it. So, you got a husband You can No, Samantha, you have a breakdown in your marriage of communication, of trust,

um of of any level of unity. And he's

done this. He just eroded trust, right?

>> [music] >> Um which in my opinion is even worse than being like, "I'm going to do this." And it's out in the open. It's the secrecy and it's the behind your back. So, Samantha, yeah, it it's This is a marriage issue at this point. And I would raise some red flags. And you may feel like, "Oh, it may not be that big of a deal. Gosh, am I being too Am I being too much?" No.

This is a big deal. It's a very big deal. He just spent $16,000 without you knowing. And so, [music] to me, that's the That's a communication and marriage breakdown and you guys may need to go pull in a therapist, a marriage therapist, [music] just to talk about not just the money portion again, but how we got here in our marriage that he didn't feel the ability to come to you and or he didn't and we need to tackle those issues.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, we have Sue in Grand Rapids up next. Hi Sue, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited.

Oh, I'm glad you called. I have a question. We are trying really hard. Our daughters in Grand Rapids, we're in Saginaw. And we're like 2 and 1/2 hours away and we wanted to move there and prices of homes are high everywhere but especially there. So, we've got our home on the

Ramsey plan. Our home is paid off, our cars are paid off. We just have our monthly expenses. My husband has us debt free in a miracle way because he's just now retired at 67.

I've been on disability since 2000. I'm sorry. I said amazing.

I know. He's he's amazing. Well, my dad when he passed away helped a little bit cuz we got a little inheritance but now we're looking we're going to buy there

God willing and sell here after we've

purchased over there. And we're not I mean you know what it's like when you don't know how much you're going to get for the one you're selling which I know

I'm 99.9% positive we're not going to get as much for this one as we are over there. If we took our house here over there, it would be about three times as much. Sure, sure. My I know. So, the question is we just got

out bid again last night. Financially

maybe not but they wanted us the other buyers were willing to skip the inspection. Mhm. And we did we

overbid what they were asking for but I'm sure these people did too and they were they had a cash offer. Yep, yep.

So, yeah. I mean if we sold ours right now and if we got what we want for it, you know, we'd be doing cash offer too.

>> What's the difference in the numbers?

What are you selling for for versus what you want to buy for?

Exactly. And it's yeah, we want to buy low and sell high in a perfect world.

>> us numbers. Tell us what you want to buy the Tell us the current property that you have, what you want to sell it for, and then what you think you want to buy for.

What we have now, I'm in a perfect world

on the perfect world we get it done.

But in a reasonable world we get 275.

Okay. Okay. Maybe 250, but I'm hoping for 275. >> Perfect. >> And the ones there we've been looking for, I mean obviously you want to go 250 and have more than for moving costs and things. But what we've been looking at

is between 260 and 320.

Mhm. And this one we were bidding like 20 Let's see.

The 290s, 300. We were bidding like 30,000

more than they were asking.

Was it the Was it there but there was a contingency on it, right? Contingent on the sale of your home? Or no? No. Okay. Oh, no, we can't even do that now because I mean we just can't. There's nothing available like that. So I think you just need some patience. I think you're frustrated. I think you have had your hopes up. You want to be close to the grandbabies and you guys are ready to pull the trigger.

You're ready to make the move. And one or two deals have slipped out under and you're just getting frustrated. So I would tell you just breathe. Have some patience. You are entering into a a good market. It's actually more of a buyer's market right now than a seller's. The fact you're getting outbid I know happens but it that that um is happening less and less of anything. Some houses are actually up for negotiation. Um and so and you know and we see um we have a real estate

dashboard that you could even kind of check out but um but it's great cuz it does show not only like the mortgage rates and everything happening but how many days on the market and all of it but there's there's something about um having the patience and this because if you don't and you feel a little desperate, you might do something which I'm glad you didn't something stupid of like wave the inspection, right? And then you go buy a house sight unseen almost and no inspection and you guys get into it and it becomes horrible. So, I really do believe the deal's going to come for you.

I really do. I think you guys have been wise with your money. You have showed patience in the past and what you guys have done to build up I mean paying off a home and everything.

Um go ahead and sell your home and go rent somewhere for a year over close to them. And just know it's short term and then and then actually take your time.

He said we're not going to move twice.

So, I get that. Yeah, okay. Well, then you guys just you just need to have a little bit of patience because you know what you want. There are houses I I'm sure for what you're looking for in that area. And actually that in the Midwest area the average list price is $309,300

right now. So, you you guys are yeah, right where you are which is perfect. So, there's there should be some great options and maybe it's a little bit of a different neighborhood than you were thinking originally or 10 minutes one way than what you wanted or I don't know, but Grand Rapids, I promise you there will be homes that you're going to be able to buy. But I would Do what?

So, May should be a better month you're thinking? Well, just from a real estate perspective things are moving more. They move more spring and summer real estate wise. Yeah, just overall. So, I would say keep your eyes open and so I would just say patience. I think you guys you're in a good spot. You're fine. Just stay within your budget. Offer what you can and if the deal doesn't happen then move on to the next. There's no perfect home.

Uh but you're you're fun though. I I appreciate you as such a >> [laughter] >> girl. So good. [gasps] All right, let's head to Heidi in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hi Heidi, welcome to the show.

Hey guys. Hope you're having a fun show today. Yes, we are. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Hey you. So I'm hoping you can help me settle a dispute between me and my 19-year-old son. Oh, we love a debate.

>> So we uh we had recently mentioned to him about possibly getting a credit card now that he's an adult.

And he's been a Ramsey listener for a while and he said, "No, I don't want any part of that." And so we started kind of having a fun spar back and forth. He's like, "Guys, you use a credit card, you should get rid of your credit card, too." Hilarious. >> Smart guy. Hilarious. I love it.

>> [laughter] >> So what do you want us to say?

You want us to tell him that you're right?

No. Okay, good.

>> me to call you guys because I was like, "Look, we pay it off every month. We have a budget that we follow. If there's not enough money for something, we don't spend it. I don't understand what the big deal is. And I've listened to the show for a couple weeks now trying to figure it out >> Mhm. and I must be missing something." Why do you need Why do you think you need one? Or why does he need one? Cuz you just advised him to get one.

I think it was mainly because I just thought, "Well, in case something happens, he doesn't have a lot of money.

We don't want to have to spot the money." What if he did save up an emergency fund?

Would you feel differently?

Yeah, if I knew he had that in place, that would be fine. I was more just confused why he thought that we shouldn't have one even though we don't use it per se as a credit card. Do you have an emergency fund?

Yes. How much? How many months of expenses?

Um we have 3 months of expenses in the emergency fund and then another

2 and 1/2 months just in our regular savings account. Excellent. So, so it's fair to say that if if emergencies came, you would have the money to cash flow it. Yes, that's true. So, I mean, yeah, so a

I mean, a credit card, honestly, Heidi, the way we look at it is not only is there data to back up that you end up spending um up to 13% more when you're using

someone else's money. And that's what you're doing, even though you quote-unquote pay it off every month. Um but subconsciously, you don't realize it, but you are spending more. If you were just spending your money how do you have with a debit card, I guarantee you you would be spending less.

So, not only that, but also what we find

over and over again is life happens, and when a credit card is your backup plan, you fall right into

the cycle that they suck you into of

of credit card debt. And people call in our show all the time and they got 10,000, 15,000 dollars in credit card debt. Well, we've been trying to pay it off, you know, we try to pay it off every month, but then this happened and this happened, we don't have enough money. And there they are at 23%, 26% interest

catching your slack of of not being diligent and saving up and actually you being your emergency funds. And so, um and I know you're you said you guys have one, which is great, but um but when it comes to just the credit card industry, they have done a great job marketing the idea that you need a credit card. But when you spend your own money and there's no bank in your life and you have complete autonomy over your life and your money, and there's no bill. You're not paying for the past anymore.

When you pay in the present and you use a debit card or cash, you move on with your life.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, health care is one of the biggest stress points in your budget.

It's confusing and most of the time it feels completely out of your control.

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>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw and yeah, we're hanging out taking your calls having a good time. So if you have a question, call us at 888-825-5225.

All right, let's go to Christie in Baltimore. Hi Christie, welcome to the show. Hi you're Hi Jade. How are you doing?

We're doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so we started a small business, my husband and I, about 1 year ago. And it is a faith-based business. I make candles. And obviously we are in the red. Um we filed our taxes for last year and we were in the red about $78,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> Um which are Yeah, which of course comes out of our, you know, income.

So, we've been having a little debate about whether we should, you know, part of this business that I wanted to start was, you know, to give back to God and to our church. So, even though we're in the red, I want to still give um money to our church out of

our revenue, not necessarily our profit.

Okay. Okay. So, and and by give money,

do you mean like a tithe for your family or you're you're doing this as a donation of what you make to go back to the church? Just that's part of your business model.

Right, as part of our business model because we do tithe to our church already on a weekly basis.

Um >> above that, but coming out of the business. Do you got Are you guys able to absorb losing $78,000?

Well, it's 7,000 to 8,000, not 78,000.

Oh my gosh, I thought you said 78,000 and I was about to say, "Christie, Christie, we got to re-examine [laughter] some stuff here." Oh my gosh.

>> Oh my gosh, that helps a little bit.

Okay, that helps a little bit. >> Yeah. Um well, can you Okay, then my question is um can you absorb I mean, let's say it's 10 Let's say you give the church 2,000. So, that means you're If you're already in the hole 8,000, that would cause you to be in the hole 10,000 at that point. Can y'all absorb $10,000 loss for a for a hobby that you love?

I think we can. Um And this is like another part of this piece. Um I want to quit my job, not for

the business, but to focus on our family and, you

know, be a stay-at-home mom. We have a 9-year-old.

Um, and really the only debt we have is our home. Okay. >> So, um, we, you know, we don't have any credit card debt. We own our cars. Our student loans are paid off. We I've been on Ramsey Solutions since like 2007 and I've had my husband do it.

>> Okay, how much how much do you do you make a year in the job you have now?

Okay, so my bring home is about 54,000.

So, we would be losing that. Mhm. And my husband's is like 95,000 bring home.

>> Okay, perfect. Have you guys done a budget on the 95,000 that if that is

your new household budget that you guys would be okay financially?

My husband has said that we will be.

Okay, have you looked at the numbers?

I have not. We're actually going to our financial planner today. Oh, great.

Okay, well, they they may be able to answer some questions too. Yeah, so I want you to be comfortable. I want you guys to do a mock budget and just say, okay, cuz there's two issues here. Candle business, candle ministry, we're going to call it cuz it's You lost money on that.

And then stay-at-home mom. Okay, so stay-at-home mom I would do a yeah, do a mock budget of what he brings home every month and and look at your realistic expenses and just say, yeah, we can totally do this. And you might be able to, Chris, you guys have no debt. Yeah.

You should be able to. Um, so I would yeah, I think so, too. >> Yeah, make sure you feel good about that. And then the the the giving on the candle business. It sounds like right now that's all the candle business does is take whatever money there is and and donate it. Right? Cuz there's no profit.

>> a large Well, a large bunch of our money actually goes to our 403Bs, our 401Ks, our IRAs, and our daughter's um, savings. So, we

save a lot. Um, and we he wants to pay our house off in like 9 years and we're already in it for six. Mhm. So, I think technically with our our cash, like that our our reserve, like we have our um our six months savings, and with our

daughters, like we could pay it off next year. So, but then that would leave us with like nothing, right? No debt, but no emergency fund either. And it's like starting from scratch, but with no debt and my husband working and me not. So, that's like just this whole thing, like what It's a lot of possibilities we have. Well, I wouldn't use your emergency funds to do this, cuz you need that in case of an emergency.

So, I would just I don't think anything's on fire in terms of you feeling like you have to go at light speed to pay off the mortgage, because you said Oh, you're welcome. >> [laughter] >> But Because he I I mean, I'm like, if I stopped working, we can do it in 15, right? It doesn't have to be done in nine. Like, we could still manage to make that work and still be ahead of the game. But he has this thing in his head.

I'm right in I'm right in the middle of you two. I like the idea of being very intentional about paying off the mortgage, and when I mean very intentional, I mean maybe not letting it go 15 years, because the hope is that you can do it, you know, in in 11. Yeah, nine to 11.

But at the same point, I would not go to the extent of saying we're going to drain all of our emergency funds and, you know, stop investing in the 401k and stop I would not do that, because that's a drastic take that none of us here would ever suggest you to do.

the candle making business produces it, right? Uh the ministry. Yeah, the ministry. >> [laughter] >> And so, but don't unplug those other things to make this happen because if if the the research you've done on the budget is true, you should be able to live on the 95,000, and that includes

doing the things that we've said. That includes you continuing to invest, continuing to put aside for college, and continuing to put extra on the mortgage.

If you can't do those three things, then that means we need to re-evaluate the budget and figure out where that money is, and if it's truly possible like we thought it was.

Right. Okay. And so, even with uh you

know, being in the red on the business, you think like we could still I mean, it might not look like $2,000, but even if it's like 500 or 1,000, I just want to give something, you know? >> I would give above on the income that you actually make. This is a hobby, Kristy. That's kind of how you have to look at it like like your husband plays golf and spends eight grand a year on golf.

Like that I mean, that that's kind of where it's at.

red just for your good heart. It mathematically doesn't really make sense, right? And and we're all about generosity and all of it, but God also gave us reason and logic that we have to plug into plug our brains into, and that's not wrong.

So, I if you guys want to be more generous on your actual income, income that you are making to your household, then absolutely, you guys can decide to do that. You may have to cut things in order to make that happen, but no, I think continuing to go in the red for something feels irresponsible to me. I agree with that. Okay.

But your heart is good. So, I want I want your heart I want that to still be um satisfied, right? The giving part of it is still beautiful and great.

Okay. Yep, that makes sense.

>> Yeah. And logic is um is a gift from God, too, you guys. Remember that. Like like sometimes we go generosity and we can go high emotion with all of it, which is good, too.

Um but also God's given us reason and logic, and that's a good thing to plug in. And so, from a logical perspective, as we do math, Yes.

>> that doesn't make that doesn't [music] make sense to continue to give. But, Christy, >> um yeah, and I hope you get to stay home, Christy. You guys have put yourself in a position where you get to make that decision, which is beautiful.

Like, that's what we're talking about, you guys, to get your money under control, so you have choices and options in life. And when you look up and you're like, "Hey, I want to be home for a season," you get to cuz you did the hard work of getting out of debt.

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>> [music]

>> Up next, we have Jessica [music] in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Jessica. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for letting me on. Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Uh so, I have a fairly new business.

We've been open about 3 years and unfortunately had to get the big expense of replacing our entire roof. And then also had some other structural things along with that. Um the estimate that we

were originally given was about $75,000 for all of that, which we saved over time so as not to take out any more loans. Um we did in that time as they discovered more problems approved for an additional 14,000 on top of that. But

then we just received the final total and there was an additional 25,000 beyond all of that that they had done

without any documentation or consent.

Like they never mentioned to us that anything else was going to happen. And when I asked about it, they just said, "Well, little things added up over time." Jeez.

And I was like, "So, 25,000's not a little thing." Um and obviously with us not taking out a loan and doing this all out of cash, that is even harder to, you know, have

all that set aside. Um they did offer to reduce that total by about 10,000, which would remain or would it would leave us with a remaining 15,000 overage beyond all of

what we had approved.

So, my question is do we just take that deal and kind of count it as the cost of doing business, or should we push back a bit more and say, you know, "We didn't approve for this. You didn't ask our permission. And if you had asked, we wouldn't have given it because we don't have that money readily available." >> Is the work already done? also >> want to be a jerk.

The work's already done. They did beautiful work.

Yeah, no change orders or anything. I mean, they just like >> orders, nothing. No verbal discussion or

any of that either. >> bad. Yeah, very bad.

>> cuz they are very reputable. We chose them knowing that they were the most expensive because we had a lot of trust in them. And we really enjoyed all of our time until we got that final bill and they just don't have a great explanation other than things add up. And and when you looked at the itemized bill, you saw you saw the money go towards certain things that you know were implemented?

Basically, it all that overage all came

in some of the the extra structural work. Um and there wasn't like broken down, you know, this much for such and such materials of it. It was just for this portion of the work. That's where the overage was.

Um but the guy said he looked over it thoroughly and he doesn't think that there are any mistakes. And I don't think that it's a tr Like I don't think that they're scamming us or anything. >> Right. I think that they just truly >> communication and they went ahead and started making decisions on your behalf without you choosing to.

So So yeah, just got I don't know if there's much you can I don't think there's much you can do at this point. I I That's kind of what I was afraid of. I don't think so because the work is done and unless you're going to say and unless you're going to make them go through and like itemize that and push on it and have the ability to to speak into it from that viewpoint. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

But at the same point, I hate to tell you that because Yeah. to spend an extra

25,000 over what you thought cuz you

said they're going to You said first they added 14,000 and then they added another 25, but then they refunded 10.

So you're 29 over what you thought.

Um no, so so um let's see but it was

basically 40,000 over the original estimate is where we ended up. Okay, and then but then they >> of that we did approve. That they actually talked to us and said, "Okay, this is the change we need to make." We did like in the back it had to be full thickness replaced. >> Okay. Um so they talked about that. We approved to go that extra 14,000 beyond

the 75. So you approved that.

>> bill yes, but then the final bill was 114,000.

And so that that means like 25,000 of

overage that we never talked about.

>> But then they came back and they said, "We'll give you 10 back." right?

Yes, they said um 10 back so that leaves us with about 15,000 of the overage that wasn't approved. But

I mean if we need to make it happen we can we can continue like we cut our salaries back to try to do all of this in cash and we can continue doing that.

I mean I can tell you I can and Rachel you're probably better suited for this but anytime I've done a project in my house it's always been a little bit more than Yeah, it's usually over budget over time. I mean that's like kind of the classic It's just always is and so we always plan for that and and maybe it I mean that's just the way it is. Now, that's like projects like renovations but typically if I'm having something serviced or replaced what they tell you it is usually is what it is.

>> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's we were just kind of shocked by Uh yeah and to the tune of 15 At this point I feel like they were fair enough to say, "Okay, you approved the 14." and then they said, "Oh, we're sorry. We comped the 10 back." There's part of me that I don't know if I would keep I mean you could push on it a little bit more but I just don't know how much you're going to get out of this. Yeah, I mean you could push and just say, "Hey, this is the amount we agreed upon.

We did not sign off on the change orders of No and and again they may have gotten in it in the structural stuff it's to your point.

And and you got a top-of-the-line company, and they if they and I you know, I know those kind of companies, and they will get they will have the best of the best of the best, and that's what you pay for. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And you get what you pay for in a good way, but you also sometimes could be overpaying for something that you probably could have gone maybe middle of the road and been just fine. You know what I mean?

Um but that's hard, so yeah, Jessica, I'm sorry.

>> Yes, and you have to be on that communication with them. So, yeah, Jessica, I wish you had a better answer for you, but oh, I'm sorry.

All right, let's go to Hunter and Suval's. Hi, Hunter, welcome to the show.

Yes, thank you for having me. Absolutely, how can we help?

Yes, so I am just starting the debt snowball, my wife and I, and I Sorry.

I bumped into a financial planner, didn't get his name or who he worked for, but he recommended that I amend my W-4 so that my Sorry, I'm out of breath.

Um What are you doing over there?

>> [laughter] >> I'm actually at work, and I'm trying to stay busy while waiting to come on the line, so Oh, no worries, no worries. So, they said to adjust adjust your W-4 taxes to what?

Um cuz currently I have maximum deductions taken out, and we do receive about a $6,000 a year tax return. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That I should amend it so that it's a lot less, so I get more money weekly to put towards the debt snowball.

>> correct. I would agree with him, yes.

Okay. And I know the tax forms changed in 2020. Uh-huh. Um how do I go about

doing that? It's actually easier than ever. There's really there's literally a line item on there where you can change the amount of withholding. You can just write it in. And so, what you can do is

think about if not much has changed on your taxes, you can say, "Okay, what was my typical tax return tax refund?" And then you can go through and divide it by 12, and that's a really good way to get an estimate of what that is monthly. And and just adjust it up or

down. And the lines, I mean, I'd have to pull it up on on my computer, but the line item is literally on there for you to change it and put in the withholding that you'd like it to be. So, you can change it from what it was to what you'd now like it to be. >> I mean, you could get close to $600 back, Hunter, each a month, which is amazing.

>> And by the way, that's what we would tell anybody to do who's getting a large refund, especially if you're on Baby Step 2. That money, I mean, we say it on here all the time, Rachel, your income is your biggest wealth-building tool. You need your income, especially if you have the target of trying to pay off debt, if you're trying to save money quickly, as much money that you can have in your pocket at your disposal to throw at that target, gosh, yes, get your hands on that money. >> Yep.

So, we are with your financial advisor, Hunter. So, yep, go in and do that. And we actually have a great blog on ramseysolutions.com all about taxes and adjustments and withholdings, all of that to get this right. So, we'll put it in the show notes for all you guys watching on YouTube and listening on podcasts.

But yeah, Jade, that's one of our when you're starting Baby Step 2, when you're starting to pay off your debt, there's there's a couple of go-tos that we've learned over the years to check. Insurance, check your insurance rates, you could be spending more than you need to, so you can get some cash back. Be looking at your expenses and what you're spending every month, and one of them is is your taxes, you know? Put money back in your pocket, so it's not sitting over in Washington all year, and then you get an $8,000 check that you can use.

You could be using that to get ahead financially.

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>> [music] >> All right, let's head to Kansas City and John is on the line. Hi John, welcome to the show. Hi there, how are you? I had a I'm in a situation where last summer I received a

$175,000 just a lump sum. This summer

I'll be receiving another $183,500.

And then next year from January on to

the 12-month period, I'll get paid 130 grand over that 12-month period. So I was just curious, I've spent about 75 to 80 grand between

taxes and other expenses from that payment I got last summer.

So it's just I was I had two main questions and the first one was you know, how to invest some of the some of the money that I have right now. I already have about 40 grand in a 401k and and have money going into a Roth IRA

and a life insurance policy.

And the like I said, the the question I had was how could I invest that money and also would I be able to comfortably and conceivably afford a $50,000 vehicle?

Wow, and where's all this money coming from John? Is it work or is it a like a trust or something?

>> Athletics. Yeah, I'm in sports. Oh, wow.

So it'll keep coming. You'll keep earning like this?

Honestly, yeah, I should have mentioned that. It will go down. It won't it won't be as much. I won't be it will probably

level out to be anywhere from 70 to

100,000 per year on average after after

this pay after this this pay. Now, do you do anything else to earn money or it's just that?

I do not. You know, with the money I have or I'm receiving I thought about maybe a business or a house or just you know brainstorming things. >> Yeah. Okay, so I added up the numbers you gave and I if I math is correct I could be off but it's it's close to half a million 488,000.

How much of that went to taxes and like what's left of everything? Like I know you have a payment coming next year you said. Um. Yeah and so I've only received so far the 175,000 last year and I believe I believe I've spent about 75 to 80,000 between expenses and taxes.

>> Okay, so you have about 100 grand of that. Well, I should mention I have I put 40 grand into a 401k so that's not necessarily liquid. Okay, gotcha. And what about just your month-to-month expenses?

That's through the through these payments for right now and that's my monthly totals up to be about 2,000 to 2,500 and then the other

thing I wanted to mention was I do want to like give some to charity and you know tithe so that will be like about around 10% of all of this will will go towards charity. Okay. So what I then I'd probably I mean I would do this like any other budget. I would sit down and I would cuz you're getting this every single year so for this year you made 175,000 a year.

>> cuz you get hurt or something and that that you won't get the 183 next year or is it guaranteed? Um so that 183 and a half will be actually like the beginning of June this year and that's guaranteed.

Also the next payment Um the one in January the 130,000 across 12 months that I will start receiving in January is guaranteed and I could it it'll be up to discussion but I could potentially even start receiving more money next year. >> Okay. Um and then even after that will will likely it'll definitely start.

>> Gotcha cuz I the thing with payments and and I feel like this would be the same if someone is in sales right and they have a massive a $200,000 commission coming in not to get ahead of herself and making sure that you actually have them Now, don't spend the money before it comes, right? So, don't go out and and buy [clears throat] a bunch of stuff and then wait for that money to hit. So, you want to be cash flowing it well. So, when Jade said, yes, setting up like a a regular budget is exactly right.

So, you'll just know ahead of time, okay, in June, this big payment is coming in. So, I need to know what I want to do with this.

car. Yeah. Okay, so What about How are taxes being taken out? Are you responsible for that or are they doing that? Because I don't want you to get hit with a massive tax bill after spending all this. Yeah, cuz you you said you paid $75,000 in taxes already, right? Well, that was No, I didn't. I paid um I paid $20,000 up front in taxes

and then we we have a we filed for a tax extension this year. So, I just paid that up front, but I hired like a financial advisor and and he has a CPA that helps me with taxes and things like that. So, I I pretty much pay them to file my taxes.

Okay, so just overseeing that, making sure that's done properly. And then, yeah, I'd I'd go through and I'd budget it out and I'd try to make this feel a little bit more normal instead of feeling like I've got this, you know, windfall of money and I can just do a bunch of stuff with it. I'd take it and I'd say, okay, if I'm not going to get money for the next 12 months, what is that every month? Is it around 15 or 16,000?

And then, plan it out like a normal budget. Whatever your rent or mortgage is, whatever you're going to pay for, and then you can budget amounts every every month. I'm putting aside this much for my car or I'm putting this much aside for, you know, what what have you.

>> Yes. Does that make sense? I think you can I think you can afford the $50,000 car, but there's part of How long you

been earning like this? How long has this been going on?

This has been So, last summer was like the first big payment I received like that. And then like I said I'll get one in about four or five weeks and at the beginning of June here.

Um and then it will be and then like I said in the next in January I'll start receiving that but it'll kind of level out from there to like more of like a normal salary of like Okay.

So if you take the 50,000 out of the 183 then yeah, you're just taking uh the one 130 and you're budgeting your 12 months

based off of that and I would do it that way. Um there's part of me that would love How old are you?

24. There's part I'm I'm just going to say this and you don't have to do this. This is just me being your buddy.

There's part of me that I would take this money now and budget it that way and I would save up. I would teach myself to save up the 50,000 out of your budgeted money every single month and start exercising that muscle of delayed gratification because there's something to that at a young age and especially when you're receiving money in big clumps like this, resisting the urge to dump it all on big

purchases right away. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I'm very like and that's one reason I'm calling is I'm pretty conscious about I don't really buy luxury items for myself. This is kind of like the first thing I've been prompted to like really buy like for myself so to speak that's like a luxury item.

Um but my question on that is like how would you go about um kind of saving on the on the money I'm receiving? Is there like a way that Are you talking about investing in stocks or like having a business or So we'll set you up with every dollar which is the budgeting tool that we use. It's more than just a budget and it's going to not only help you manage the money but it's going to teach you our way of thinking and our guided plan here at Ramsey which is the baby steps.

a couple of things really well but doing them in order and focusing on one at a time so you can actually achieve it. So you're person it doesn't sound like you have any debt, right?

So that jumps you automatically to we would call baby step three, which is making sure you always have In your case, I'd have 6 months of expenses. We say 3 to 6 months. That's just parked in a high-yield savings account. It's not invested. High-yield savings account, it's liquid if you need to get to it, but it's also set aside from your normal spending money. And then from there, you do baby step four, which is you're investing 15% of your gross. Which you've already started that, John, so well done. So, yep. Mhm.

Yep. >> And then, no more, no less at this point. And then, if you wanted to You're a young guy, you don't have children yet, so you can skip baby step five for now. But then, baby step six is if you have a house, you're thinking about paying off the house, or if you haven't, you can start putting a down payment for a house, that sort of thing.

And then after that, after you've paid off your house, then you can start investing more.

uh building wealth and making progress with your money. So, it sounds like you're doing a lot of those things. You just needed like the the tune-up of it.

>> Yep, that's right. >> Sure. Yep, so. >> Absolutely.

Um yeah, and then you had the giving aspect to throw in there, too. So, um and I think that that'll be in every dollar and and and I would tell you, John, that when you give out of this, I probably would recommend having two or three places you give to, cuz sometimes if it's one big donation, and especially if it's a smaller nonprofit or something, and you end up being the one propping them up for a while, because this is not money that's going to be continual throughout the rest of your life. You know what I mean?

Like just be wise about about the giving.

but yeah, I think you can do it all. I can keep that. So, you just said give give to a couple different companies, and what was the reason for that? >> because if you give this If you give

um 18, 20, 30,000 to one, that's a huge

windfall on them, and if they expect any level of that going forward, you don't want to be the largest donation, right?

So, just something to to about, cuz it's just going to be a lot of money at once. So, [music] um >> Okay, perfect. Yep. So, John, absolutely.

I think you can be giving, invest 15% of your income, >> [music] >> you can go enjoy some of it, um and I think you can afford that car if you want it, and then be thinking about real estate, too, um and putting a big down payment on a home.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Buying or selling your home is a big deal, and with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. And so, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So, last month, the average 15-year fixed-rate mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56%, but it's still under 6% people, so we're happy about that. Now, if you are financially ready, a small rate increase like that should not hold you back.

So, go ahead and jump in the market if you are financially ready.

last month, which is pretty typical for the spring market. And with more homes available and more buyers entering the market, it's a great time to buy or sell. So, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you when you buy or sell your home, and to do it with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market, or you can click the link in the show notes if you are listening on podcasts or watching on YouTube. All right, let's head to Is it Is it Iya in Buffalo?

Did I pronounce that correct? Yes, Aya. Aya. >> Aya, I'm sorry.

Yes, well, thank you for calling, Aya.

So, I have a question. I am about to run into about maybe $2 million a lump sum. But, I have bad money management. I give away my money. I spend my money. I am currently right now living in poverty. I am a nurse in um my

town. So, I have had tons of money. I go

and buy high-end cars. I've bought houses, sold houses, given houses away, diamonds, um I cashed out my 401k about a couple years ago. But, I don't really know what's going on.

I make really, really silly financial decisions. I've been chapter 7 bankrupt three times. So, I'm trying to 44. Okay, and you ready to

break that cycle? You know it exists.

>> [laughter] >> You identified it beautifully.

And I am extremely fearful. Like, when I get this money, do I like go and pay cash for another house?

Um like, do I finance the house? I just don't know what to do. And I don't want to fall into my old patterns.

Do you know, have you identified the source of what that's coming from? Have you identified what causes you to cuz it sounds like you're a bit of a rescuer. It sounds like you come to people's rescue.

Don't, you know, you're an It sounds like you're a bit of an enabler. Have you identified why that is?

Yes. >> And where that comes from?

I've always been into, you know, shopping and things. My grandmother was very wealthy. So, we shopped, we did well. My brother was murdered in 2013, [clears throat] and I started to pad my life emotionally

with materialistic things. Mhm. Mhm.

But, I couldn't fill the void.

>> Mhm. So, it just took me into overdrive.

So, like, we're talking about me waking up at 6:00 in the morning, and catching a flight to Texas just to eat, just to come back home that night. Like crazy things that you won't even you couldn't even think of. Have you figured out how to remedy that in a in a healthier way or how to kind of heal through that?

Well, I have a girlfriend now, so he's I I think I've healed it. I think I've I've not healed the homicide, but I've navigated through it. So, now I'm not

um as itchy to go and spend money. In addition to I'm hurt now, so all of this

great lifestyle went down the the the drain. I can't work right now because I'm hurt. But, this is where this this is where this $2 million is going to come from. >> How long are you How long are you unable to work? Like, what's the status of that? So, I've been out of work already for about 18 months.

Oh, man. And the $2 million did you get hurt on the job and you're getting a settlement? >> I did not get hurt on a job. I had a fall, but I am getting a settlement.

Okay. Okay.

>> almost $2 million.

So, I need to refund my 401k. I need to

buy another property. I need to buy a a car. Like, I need things to do, but I also want to open up a business. I want to open up a home care business. Let's pause. Let's pause. Let's pause cuz you're you're already starting to go back into that mindset, which is

the moment I have money, I got to spend it on something and that's not true. So, I want to open up the conversation with a really basic principle that we teach here and we it's so basic that we teach it to kids, which is when you have money, there's three things you do with it. You give some, you save some, and

you spend some and you have to do all three. And you have to do them in the correct proportions. And if you can walk away with that little piece and filter everything through that eye, that's going to help you um because you've got to save some, and that's the part that's missing from your equation. Um, so those three things, and

then the second part, which I'll call it the second part, but it's it's probably the most important thing that needs to underpin all of this, which is you've got to decide, and I don't know what your relationship with debt has been, but you've got to decide, no matter what, I don't borrow money.

>> Mhm. Okay. At all. At ever. I'm done.

>> for business, not for other people, not for cards. We don't borrow money. I

yeah, say it. I don't borrow money.

>> [laughter] >> I don't borrow money. Ever. Keep that Keep that so close to your heart. Keep that so close to your heart, okay? >> Yeah. Because this $2 million can change This will change your life. This will set you up for a life with without

financial stress that you've been in.

You know what I mean? In these cycles. And so, um, so we'll tell you kind of what we would do, but first I would also say, so so Jade's big big point, did you hear? Give, save, spend, no debt.

I'm going to tell you I You need to find someone, I don't know if it's someone a good friend, a family member, someone in your church, but someone who is good with money. Someone who has built some wealth slowly

over time, and you look at them, and they're the kind of person that you're like, I trust them. How they live their life, and the way they view money, but they've done well.

I need I want them in my life. And I'm not kidding, before you make any big purchase, I want you to call that person before you do anything. Did anybody come to mind? Did anyone come to mind when she said that? Yes, two people. Okay.

Yes. And they need to know everything. I I would see I'm serious, the deep I hate the word accountability, cuz it feels so like I'm going to tell you yes or no. I don't It's like a friend. >> a good a true friend who can be your financial friend, who's going to know all the numbers. That you need someone in your life that is with you in this.

And not because you're not capable of doing it your own. I think you can build that muscle and you can, but for anyone out there who's single and doing this stuff, and especially if you're coming into $2 million and you're so self-aware enough to know like I'm not great at this, have someone who's good to to to bounce ideas off of, okay? So Okay.

those are important. Now, what are we going to do with this $2 million? Let's talk real quick. What is your car situation? You threw out about a about a car. What are you currently driving and do you have debt on it?

I'm not driving anything at the moment.

I can't drive. I have um You can't drive? I'm have to have surgery, so I can't drive. Oh, because of your health. Okay. How soon How soon do you think it'll be until a car becomes part of your life again and driving becomes part of your life again? Maybe about eight or nine months. Maybe about eight months. >> Okay. So, let's just hold off on that.

What about other debt? Do you have debt that needs to be paid off? Do you have any debt? >> Absolutely. Yeah, I have a car debt.

Tell us all of it.

Probably about a $25,000 Navy Federal credit cards that I need to pay off. Um you know, just Capital Ones, Discover, but everything is high limit. 20,000, 10,000, 30,000. Everything is high limit

and everything was maxed out. Okay, so how many if you had to calculate how much debt you have in credit cards, what's the total?

Right now, about $73,000.

>> Okay. Okay. So, we're going to cut those up tonight, Iea, okay? We're done with credit cards, okay? Because Iea is a person that doesn't borrow money.

I do not borrow money. That's right. So, that means no credit cards. Cut them up.

Get your debit card out. That's what you're going to spend money on. It's all on your debit card. No more credit cards. They've been horrible to you. You see what it's done?

Yes, they Not a blessing. Not a blessing, okay? So

What about the 401k? Was it a 401k loan or did you just take the early withdrawal? Like what did you do? No, I did a early withdrawal. I had I went into like a little health issue then, so I was able to cash it out. Not too many penalties, um and I lived off of it for a little while. >> Okay, so that's not debt.

>> but after that, I had my accident. So, now I've been out ever since. Tell Tell us more debt. Is there more besides the 73,000?

Uh no. 73 should >> housing situation?

I live somewhere where I don't love, so I'm absolutely not happy. >> Do you own a home? >> No. You're renting. You're renting. Okay. We're going to take some of this money and we're going to buy a modest modest not a $2 million

not a $2 million home a modest home to

get us started in an area that we like, okay? >> [music] >> So, those would be some big purchases, but you need to go over those numbers with a friend. Please have someone in your life that's walking through [music] this with you and cut up the credit cards tonight. Let that be one of the post in the ground for you.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we are taking your questions. All right, let's go to Maria in Lafayette. Hi Maria, welcome to the

show.

Hi. Hi, welcome. How can we help today?

So, I'm calling because I inherited a

decent amount of property from my great

grandmother. Her son, my grandfather, passed in 2014, so it went to me, my two siblings, my uncle, and my biological father. Oh, wow. So, it's split between five people?

Yeah. Okay.

is I am everybody's telling me I need to

take this to court and fight for

ownership over certain people's pieces because some people intentionally damage the property to lower its property value to try to make it easier to buy me out.

Some people have stolen from the estate in a total that's up to like $80,000. So everybody's like you need to take them to court and get their portions that way you'll own most of it. What's it all worth? >> it sells you can get a fair price. Well, here's the thing they got it appraised and with all the damage they did to the home it appraised for $40,000 but it's a

brick home in good condition on 20 acres of property with a tractor shed, a pond,

lot two livestock barns, all fenced in field and a >> All that together is worth 40,000? and a

bridge going over it. Are you saying all that together or just the home on the property is worth 40,000?

>> They they want all of that for 40 grand.

Who's they?

Uh my uncle that is currently living in

the home. >> No, no, no. I'm saying market value like if you appraise if you took it to a buyer >> got it appraised. The house with the three acres that immediately around it is 40,000 because they damaged the home so much and they're they all smoke meth.

Oh boy. >> house needs to be gutted because those vapors fill in the walls.

>> Oh yeah, you're in a that's a not a not a good not a good spot. So And they're

also very aggressive towards me because their mother when she passed she left me everything because she'd been no contact with them because of drugs, theft, everything else. So I got everything from her so they're already very aggressive towards >> at you for sure. How much does this matter to you? This $40,000 shack meth

shack. Mhm.

You know honestly for real Me and my husband are in medical debt so I'm trying to wonder if it's worth it to fight to get a fair price to try to get us out of debt so we can move on with our lives. >> How much debt did you say?

>> Um in total without our mortgage, we're about

with my student loans All of it and all of it except the house is what I want to know.

All of it except the house, it's probably like 36,000.

>> Okay, and how much do you guys make a year?

We make uh right about 120k a year.

Okay. And how much you said that his mom left you everything. Has she passed away? Have you Did you get an inheritance then, too, or not yet? She's just going to leave you. She's She passed. She didn't leave me any money, but she left me farmland that's in a 90 So in Louisiana's a 99-year lease, I inherited that lease. So it's still valid with the people who are with it, which is fine because that's just past due.

>> Okay, got you. Okay, got you. Okay.

Um so >> where they're at right now, none of them are paying the taxes, so I'm having to pay all the taxes on everything so I don't get liens against me. And since they're living in it, it's a whole legal process to evict them to even try to sell on the market. And they don't want to do that. It's like I'm I have to make a poor decision either way.

It's just a hard decision. I'm just trying to decide what how hard it should be. >> What's the process if you say if you said to a judge, I want no parts of this? And and I Take me off.

What needs to Have you Have you checked into that?

I have. And to just walk away from it for $0, I could just sign it over to them. >> Yeah. And I And I almost would. Well, Maria, listen, if it's 40,000 cuz I bet the house, you're right, they're going to have to gut it or or it's going to be done. I mean, yeah. Um But it's also another 20 acres of land.

>> is that worth? Have you Have you appraised that?

The 20 acres that it's on Yeah. like I

was told by the appraiser cuz she didn't do an official appraising of that, but she said for all of the property it'd be close to $120,000 just cuz of location and everything not including the house. Okay.

And there's um So, each of you when it's all said and done it it just in a perfect world if everyone sold sold it and you guys cashed out five ways, you each would get around 30 grand ish. Yes.

>> Okay. Um so, the question is what from a

>> [sighs and gasps] >> from a And they they don't have the money to buy you out. They don't have 30 grand.

Yes. No. No. And And are they the ones Are they the ones >> 2014.

The other four, are they all kind of

off the rails, all four of them?

Yeah, like the uncle stays on drugs and

yes. >> Who's the executor of the Hey, who's the Who's the executor?

>> [snorts] >> The executor uh was a family friend who

as soon as this was done and like everything So, the succession is done, he wants nothing to do >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

He won't even answer cuz he was like all of y'all are nuts and I'm not dealing with it. >> Okay, so [laughter] that that answers my question, which is you're in this with a bunch of just like derelicts, right? And

Yeah. You have to decide how much like there's there's mental energy and just

um there's a lot of personal toll, emotional toll of this that you have to decide if you want to even engage in it.

if you went the litigation route, how much will attorneys be and all of that that will cut into your 30 gra- You're right. It may like Yes. So, you guys just think through from a from exactly what Jade's saying, from a mental investment standpoint and emotional and a financial at the very end of it all what what's worth it? Um And I wish a judge could step in and

have you gone that route at all? Have you Have you looked into any legal proceedings like Oh, yeah. I sat down with a lawyer and talked spoke with a judge that she knows and my options are sign over and walk away and then send them all the notice to say hey, you owe me $700 in property taxes cuz in this

state when you owe property taxes, one person gets a notice and they're expected to inform the other people.

Okay. So, you could do that or >> So, I didn't get a loan. What was option B? >> I could walk away They said I could walk away and just try to get what I spent in property taxes since I covered all their share back. Okay. What's option B?

>> B I can file what's called I forget exactly what it's called but it's basically a motion where you have to make a choice. Buy me out or we sell and this is done. Yes.

I I may go that route. Just do that.

>> Just do that. Yeah. Push forward on that one and just see what happens. That one is expensive because they How expensive?

argue it and it would be Well, they They have no money. They can't argue it. They can't hire lawyers.

They don't have any money. >> They can argue with you personally but they can't do anything legally.

How much does it cost to do that right quick?

Um I was told to be prepared to drop at

least 5,000 outright and then if they

argue it, possibly more from there.

Okay. Well, do you Yeah, if you have five grand available, which you guys are in debt, you may not. I don't know. It

I don't know, Jade. Part of me would just walk away. >> I might walk away.

I don't know when to hold them and when to fold them.

And when to walk away.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

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Okay, today's question comes from Natalie in Georgia. She says, "I'm currently on baby step six and earn over 100,000 per year. I invest 10% of my

income in a Roth IRA.

My monthly expenses are around 6,500.

I live with my partner in a home that he owns, and we have no plans to get married. I pay him $2,500 a month, which

is significantly less than what I would pay living on my own. We keep all of our finances completely separate. I don't want to buy a home, so what would you recommend I do instead to continue building wealth and long-term security?

I want to make sure I'm following the spirit of the baby steps while also being realistic about my uh situation.

Okay, so just to recap, she makes a good income, she's investing for herself, her money is separate from the the living boyfriend, but it's his house. Mhm. So, Rachel, there's a lot to unpack here.

I'm first going to answer this question based on her Yeah.

>> way of living, okay? Which is, if I were

you, you're not married to this guy, this is his house, your money's totally separate, then yes, I would just keep investing and building wealth, and if there is no Essentially, you'd be on baby step seven, so you'd be investing well beyond 15% and continuing to build your wealth for yourself without his

input or name attached to any of it, right? >> Right. Absolutely. >> Um And yes. Yep, I would do that, and then I probably, I don't know, I just thought of this as you were talking, Jade.

My fear is because there because you're not married, there's no legal tie-in, right? Like even um even if your name obviously wasn't on the home, but you guys were married and you split, it's seen as a marital property. Like so, you would get some level of equity.

You're getting nothing right now. And and if he decides to walk away in 4 months, you don't From a housing perspective, you've built nothing on that side of the equation. So, >> Unless you made some sort of a document that you both sign and make some sort of a agreement that could hold up in court.

Yeah, that if they break up, she they have to sell the home, and like yeah, there could be that, right? Cuz I think there is There are documents for that.

>> on the state. So, I would honestly I would my only Yeah, you're doing good with everything else. My fear is the housing element of this for you. So either Yes, you need a formal That's right. A formal document that will hold up in court to say if this long-term

relationship What do they call it? It's mar- It's a There's a term for it. I'm blanking.

That if Yeah, if we if we separate, if we break up still like what we've been building together actually can be seen as a common law marriage type thing. Um that's a possibility and or if that's not going to work in your state specifically in Georgia, then maybe on the side you're just putting the money away and it earmarked for the future and earmarked as a possible down payment on a home if you guys break up so you can get you can be in a good position from a real estate perspective long-term. Yeah.

>> So that would be the only thing I'm concerned about in this and the biggest risk you have is from a real estate perspective that you're just paying rent, you're building no kind of equity Absolutely. uh in in your life.

>> It's called a cohabitation agreement and and that's what you can do, but the bigger part of this and this is worth saying, but home ownership is such a big part of wealth building and if you don't have that cohabitation agreement, then your portion of that wealth building effort goes away. And then if I were her, I would be looking for other ways to diversify my investing to be able to cash it if you needed it. Yeah, absolutely.

But now let's talk about this from a from a Jade and Rachel perspective, which I think we should. And this is not anything on judgment. This is just You called the show Yeah, this show and we're the host. I question the commitment that's really here because if Sam Warshaw, that's my husband, if Sam Warshaw said to me, "I love you, Jade. You are the love of my life. However, I'm never going to marry you. I don't want to marry you. And furthermore, I don't want my finances to even touch your finances.

That That gives me cause for pause. I'm just going to say. And it it causes me to go down in into shutdown mode. And more so, I have many questions. Why? You don't trust me? Is there something about me? Did I do something? Is there something about you? >> Right? That's right. That's right.

Absolutely. I know.

And that's part of the world today, Jade, that I'm like I just kind of like do this. What's the dog where they like turn to the side a little bit?

>> Um yeah, because uh and not that everyone has to like get married and have kids by any stretch of the imagination. But when you are choosing to basically be married without the commitment, that's where I'm like, "What's going on?" Yeah, it just begs the question.

>> that? Yes. Um so, yep. I'm with you,

Jade. I think that's I think that's fair. That's our That's the That's the friends talking. >> Yeah, friends talking. We were having a glass of wine. That's probably where we'd be like, "Gosh, Natalie, What's up with Jared?

Jared kind of sucks. Why Why doesn't Why doesn't he want to get married to you? What's going on?" Jared. Oh, all right.

What a guy. Let's go to Memphis and we have uh Brittany on the line. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the show.

Hey guys. Thanks for having me on.

Absolutely. How can we help? So So, my my question um I'm 47 years old

and uh about six two two months ago, six

weeks ago, I bought a new car. And then

um recently have decided I wanted to start my debt snowball.

And now I'm like, "Well, what do I do

with the car?" >> [laughter] >> Yes. Okay, how much How much is it? How much did you borrow on?

Um 90. 90,000?

I almost spit my coffee out. She almost choked. Oh my gosh. All right. Yeah. How

much do you make a year?

Um I make about 150. I bring home about 9,500 a month. How much is the car payment?

1,300.

Girlfriend, let me tell you.

Oh gosh. >> Okay. I'm shook.

Have you looked at at all

selling it? Like what could you get?

It's a 2-month you'll have some depreciation for sure.

But if you turned around and did it >> Yeah, plus I was upside down. Oh, got

it. That's part of it, too.

>> it was only about by like $5,000 and I did put money down. How much could you get out of it or Um you mean this car now, how much would I end up probably owing after selling it? >> Yes, yep.

So I would probably I'm going to say I haven't looked really in-depth, but I'm saying probably 15 to 20,000. Upside down?

Yes. >> Okay, the Wow. Um I would still get out of it because to your point, if you're walking the baby steps now and you realize this is too much car for you, which it is, and obviously it's on debt.

Um I would definitely make that transaction. I just wonder though, do you have any cash laying around to put towards this?

Well, I have about um 15,000 in the bank. >> Okay, good. What other debt do you have?

I have $46,000 in student loans and that's it. I don't have any credit card debt. >> Okay, perfect. Did you say 4,600 or 46,000?

46,000. Okay, just making sure.

>> the first one. I wish it was the first one. Well, you make good That's what I was laughing about cuz I wish it was. Yeah, you make good money. You have 15,000 in the bank, which is awesome.

So what I would do, yeah, I would throw a lot of that cash to, which is going to hurt. You're still going to take out a small loan. But I mean, I would you know, I would look at um Yeah, but I mean, 5,000 maybe If you do a private sale, you might hit it right on the head. Yeah, you might. Yeah, you may have to take out maybe a $10,000 a from a credit union to get you like a six, seven thousand dollar car and a little bit of the difference.

Um but yes, I would because you'd have ten thousand and you have to pay off. Um and I think you could you could pay off ten grand if you put two, three grand at

it a month. You could get this paid off in three to four months. That and you'd be done. >> after bills and everything, I have about forty-five hundred dollars left over every month.

>> Beautiful. Okay, good Britney. Yes, okay, so that's great. That So that's what I would do.

I would get out of this cuz that thirteen hundred even over the course of gosh, a couple of months has eaten into it. So I would as quickly as you can sell this car, take a loan out for the difference, and a little bit more to get you around in a five, six thousand dollar car. Um yeah, and then And then you're paying six thousand a month on student loans. Yes, and then you're knocking it out.

So well done Britney. I'm sorry about the ninety thousand, but you [music] can get rid of it.

>> [music]

[music]

>> When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, ninety percent of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget.

They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you.

And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

We wish we could get to every call on the show cuz we always leave the show with a couple people still on the board that we haven't been able to get to. So, if you have a money question though and you're like, "Listen, I might not want to call the show." Don't worry because we have a place for you to go. Go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So, Ask

Ramsey is our free AI tool and it's been built and trained is what they call it but but you throw everything in this thing and it shows over the past couple years all of our books, articles, everything in this. And you can ask it very specific detailed questions and it

will give you an answer as if you had called the show. It will be a Ramsey-approved answer and what to do and it's fantastic.

I just saw some numbers in a meeting this morning about it and it's like going crazy. It's great. >> Nice. It's so great because we want y'all to figure out what to do with your money and if you need help, it's there for you. So, go to ramseysolutions.com

or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube and check out Ask Ramsey.

All right, let's go to Corey in Atlanta.

Hi Corey, welcome to the show.

Well, thanks so much for having me.

Absolutely, how can we help?

So, I am debating on buying a new house.

My dilemma is I am almost in baby step

seven. That's the goal I've been working towards for a long time.

And I'm a little scared to take out a larger mortgage when this one's almost gone. Oh man, how much more of a mortgage would you be taking out?

So, we are down to 27,000 left on our

current house and the new one the new mortgage would probably be 350 to 375.

>> Oh gosh, yeah.

And how much is your current house worth?

About 550. Okay. So, you'd be looking at like an 800,000-ish 900,000 dollar

home. >> Yeah, 850 875 range. Yeah, what's the motivation to move? Is it just size or is it different area of where you guys are in the city?

Yeah, the primary motivation is to be closer to work. For last 23 years I've

worked about an hour from where I live.

And the move would cut probably 25

minutes off of it conservatively. Yeah, wow, yeah. How much do you make a year?

Um we make about 300,000. Okay. And how old are you guys?

Um we're 43.

Yeah, I mean if you um I mean it you know, if it's in the parameters like this is just like the safest way. If it's in the parameters of what we talk about when it comes to mortgages that the payment's no more than 25% of your take home pay you do it

in you know, 15-year fixed rates

and all of it it's still it would still be a green light from a Ramsey perspective. It's so funny. I feel like this is one part like the second >> the home upgrade yeah. Like like if George was sitting in here, I think he'd be more good with it. Dave is still like I'll never tell you to borrow money.

Even if we're on one but I but yeah and I think that you guys have enough of the motivation because you've been doing this that I think you would pay this off pretty quickly four to five years. I think you guys could get aggressive and say you know what? We're going to get rid of this. I don't think you're going to like having a mortgage.

I think you've made so much progress on the home now that if you got into it you'd pull a John Delony. John always talks about this. He's like he like I could not sleep until this mortgage was paid off cuz they had a they got a you know a small one when they came to Nashville.

>> Uh-huh. And I would say the same thing.

If you hear any pause from me, it's only because you had pause. You're like, "Oh, we're so close." And I can I feel that for you. Like I feel the feeling of like almost starting back over a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But if it's in your value system, then it's totally cool. >> And quality of life, all of that comes into play. And again, you're not being you're not being unreasonable or irresponsible. >> at all.

Yeah, every day when I'm driving home and I drive by the location where the house would be and I see the GPS say 25 minutes to home, I'm like, I just want to move. I want to be at home. I'm like, oh, this is all this money is going to be flying out the window. It's the best thing.

It's fun. It's just I've been debating this for a year. We finally found a house that I actually like. Okay.

>> It's everything that we want. So, now it's like, all right, is the rubber meets the road or are we doing this or not? >> Yep. Yep.

Yep.

It's nerve-wracking. Yeah. What it What are you If you had to give yourself like a percentage, like what are your percentages? Are you like 80% I really want to do this house and it's just 30% you know, it's just 20% that says no?

Or are you like 50/50? Where do you think you >> thing with this one that we really liked, it was very low cuz we we've looked at like 50 houses and I've looked at how expensive they are and I'm like, I would never move for this amount of money. And then we found this house and that was finally the first one that was like, oh, maybe I could I would move for this house, you know. Yeah.

Um I would say it's it's really like 50/50 right now.

She She's more fine than I am because

the move will not change her commute at all. So, she's like, "If you really want to do it, we'll do it. If you want to stay, we'll stay." She's very supportive either way. Okay. How long have you been in the job for?

>> [clears throat] >> Uh 20 years. Oh, okay. So, you'll probably be there for a little bit longer. >> Mhm. Continue. >> Yes, I am.

Continue there. Yeah. Um

Yeah, I'd be okay with it. And again, I think you guys are going to be motivated to get rid of this. Make it hurt, too.

And so, I mean, if you just said, "What if we threw 100 grand at this?" You'd be done in 3 years, which is insane on an $800,000 house. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're >> You could get stupid on it, yeah. For sure. >> you you guys could could really do it.

Not that you have to be that intense, but I'm just saying, your natural motivator, Corey, I think will be more intense than the average person because you've kind of tasted this like level of freedom that you're getting right there. It's right there. Mhm.

But from the quality perspective of getting almost 40 minutes back each way,

>> It's a lot of time.

>> That's a lot of time that you get back.

That's And I will I will say it's worth calling out. Like, there's few things that are like Trump money, and time is one of them. >> Yes. Yes.

Absolutely, yeah. And I have a young daughter, too. So, Yeah.

don't have too many years left with her. I'd like to get those years with as much quality time as possible. For sure.

Yeah, we'll take your Sounds like you guys have The fact you've looked at 50 houses Mhm. makes me think that you guys have emotionally been there faster than what is reality is catching up to. Um so, yeah, if it's a house you love and it's within the price range, yep, I would say go for it. >> All right, let's go to Joshua in Illinois. Hi, welcome to the show.

Uh hi. Thanks for taking my call. Um uh

yeah, so, I have a my fiance, love of my life, and we're going to be getting married at the end of the year, and she has about $60,000 in debt between

student loan, credit card, and uh you know, car loans >> and myself I have the money that I can

just pay it off once we are you know, officially married, but I'm just more want to know that would be better for us to kind of like work it through like together as if it was the baby steps and

kind of be a first thing in our marriage first me just kind of paying it off. I mean I definitely would want to have that conversation of what is our philosophy

going to be >> around money. That's what I was going to say. Is she is she committed to living a debt-free life cuz you don't want to go and pay everything off and then she goes right back in her old habits and you guys are on separate pages.

Yeah, no, she's doing the great doing the baby steps has the every dollar like app and right now in her in her current like situation she works in ministry and doesn't make much money, but once we are married, she'll be moving in like with me and then like looking for other like work that will like like she has like a master's degree in counseling. So like once she she'll be doing that work and her pay will significantly increase her When do you get married?

What was that sorry? When do you get married?

In October of this year.

And how much of the debt does she have?

How much debt will she bring in in?

Um with what she's paying off now I mean it won't it it won't make a huge dent probably still like you know, 55 like 60,000. Okay, and how much money do you have cash-wise that you're bringing into the marriage?

Um so between my like investments and

other accounts about 300,000.

>> Okay, is that is some of that 300 tied up in retirement IRAs or 401ks?

Yeah, about 150 of it is in like 401k

and Roth and then the other one's in like a TOD brokerage account. Okay, great. [clears throat] Yeah, well, the um yeah, the path to get become wealthy the fastest is being out of debt, staying out of debt, saving and investing and the faster you guys can get on that plan together, I'm a green light. I just want to make sure your values are aligned and it sounds like they are.

So, I don't really yeah, no red flag for me >> [music] >> on it especially if you're both wanting to tackle get out of debt.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 145:8. [music] The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.

Clara Booth Luce said, "Money can't buy

happiness, but [music] it can make you awfully comfortable while you're being miserable." Okay, Clara. That's that's exactly what I'm talking about. I agree.

I agree. And [laughter] I once I I remember we we had this big discussion before we we moved. We built a home and moved in in 2019.

>> Mhm. And I remember I had so many nights in our old kitchen and so I was like, "I just can't wait to I can't wait to be in our new house." You know, cuz the drawers would all hit. You know, it was like this like this and then like we had two babies at the time and food was all on the floor. I'm cleaning up the food and Winston was like, "Babe, you know that like this exact situation is just going to be put in a different kitchen." Like there's so much food on the floor and all that and I was The craziness continues.

>> like, "I know, but at least I'll have pretty cabinets." Like what >> [laughter] >> good are they to look at? I feel you. It doesn't change you. You go with you.

You go with you.

>> the cabinets a little bit [laughter] more in the middle of the mess.

Oh, man. All right, let's go to Maril in Asheville. Hi, Maril. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Um I have a pretty straightforward question. I have an old 401k that my uh

one of my first employers created for me straight out of high school and when I went to college it just kind of sat dormant and ended up closing and now I can't contribute to it anymore, but we're going through some different financial struggles. I'm now a stay-at-home mom, so I'm not contributing the same way. I do I do work part-time, but it's not I'm definitely not contributing as much as I used to be and um we have a Roth IRA which we could

roll the 401 401k over into

or there's also the option of closing it, I guess, and using the money for we have some major car repairs that just came up. Um So yeah, I'm just kind of curious what your thoughts are on what to do with the 401k or just leave it alone. It has a very good rate of return right now and it has been increasing. I just can't help it increase.

Yeah, so I would roll it over just to a traditional IRA. You can just open that up. If you roll it over into the Roth, the tax implication will be there, so you have to watch out for that. And no, and I would not cash it out early because you'll be hit with penalties Um >> Yeah.

and all of it.

for anyone because you want to be able to have somewhat control over what's going on and it's not just sitting in the old plan of an old company that you were working at. Yeah, and and the reason behind not obviously not cashing it in is it's still retirement money.

So, if you take it out early, you're going to be hit with the the penalties on that and the taxes obviously on that as well. So, direct rollover. Yep. Great

question, yep, that's one that a lot of people do have. And and if you had the money to pay the taxes and you wanted to convert it to Roth, you could, but not but >> That's usually a baby step seven deal though, right? >> Yeah, and I was going to say and you probably don't have that considering you said we have car repairs and all of it. So, so that's yeah. Thanks for calling, Myra. Let's go to Rebecca in Orlando.

Hi, Rebecca. Welcome to the show.

Hi, yes, I appreciate you taking my call and for any assistance. So, I have had

some recent vet bills. I now need to get a biopsy for my cat that's going to cost $2,521.16.

I've not had a working vehicle since December, so I started saving then and I've put aside $4,877.42,

but with my other monthly bills and per the rate that I'm earning per hour, I'm afraid I'm going to have to dip into my car savings to pay for this medical expense for my cat. And you know, I do

need a working vehicle, so I'm trying to strategically and intelligently navigate

how to go about not only getting a car, but paying for this vet bill and any future expenses for my cat. How have you been getting to work without the car?

I've been using ride share and sometimes I'm able to work remotely as well.

>> How much do you have saved for the car?

4,000? I've saved $4,877.

>> Do you have a goal you're trying to get to before you buy something?

Um I'd like to get a Toyota or a Honda cuz they're reliable, so I would prefer to have saved up between 8 to $10,000.

Okay. How quickly will you get to the 8 to 10?

>> [snorts] >> Um I had a goal of setting aside $1,000 per month, but it's been a bit tricky because I earn $18.54 per hour and then I get commission, but Mhm. What's that [clears throat] look like every month? >> What's it a It varies. I work for a major telecommunications company and um

commission you know On an average month, what do you make? I've been making for commission under 1,500, so my most recent check um I got

a raffle and I got about $2,220.39, but I just mean on a typical like a typical average month, what would you say if somebody just quickly said, "Hey, what do you make?" What would you say?

1,500? >> Um Yeah, we'll go with that. Yeah. I'm going to break some And that's 1,500 a month, not a week, right?

I'm paid bi-weekly, so yeah.

>> Okay, so $3,000 a month.

>> Mhm.

Yes?

Yes. Okay.

Um I don't think you have the money to spend 2,500 on your cat's biopsy. And mathematically it's just not there. You can't spend a month's earnings on your cat.

I wish you could because I love animals and We do. We do. You know, but yeah, this is not financially And not like you cuz you don't have that when you don't have a car. Yeah.

And you've got a pri- It's a It's a question of priority at that point. Do you fund the thing that causes you to be

able to work, which causes you to be able to eat and pay your bills, which is your vehicle? Or Do you see what I'm saying? And I'm not saying it's a I'm not saying it's an easy decision to make by any means. I'm just saying that it is a necessary one that every once in a while we come to these points where we have to prioritize in order of absolute importance. And

that And this is with anything, by the way. There is always going to be other things that compete to be the top dog, right? >> [clears throat] >> No pun intended, top cat.

But [snorts] the point is you've got to you've got to say, "No, no, no, no, no.

This is it. This is the number one thing." And number two is going to feel It doesn't make number two feel any less important, is what I'm saying. That's right, yeah. And I think what's you know, and it's always funny what hosts get which calls cuz George Camel

Yeah. He probably would say the same thing. But George would spend more on his pets than all He would. all of us

would. He would. >> [laughter] >> all of us combined. So, yeah, if he was on here, he probably would have a little bit more uh Yes. Lax, yeah, whatever. But yeah, it it is a it's a it's a hard decision, but we have to be wise. And this is where our emotions can easily trump our logic, right?

>> That's right. And you could do that with a home purchase. People go into a home cuz they're like, "Oh, we love it. It's exactly what we want." But it's 50% of their income is the monthly payment. Not logical. And so we do have to be

very, very thoughtful about what's going on. And yeah, and like you said, Jade, we we love animals and I would love for you to buy a car and then say, "Hey, let me save up and cash flow this expense coming up." Yeah.

Yeah. >> Um That That could be reasonable, too.

So Yeah, and maybe get a second opinion with the cat. Maybe there's something you can do or there's something that's, you know, will buy you some time. Yeah.

Um, but certainly please don't go into debt about this. That's my number one thing that I want you to take away is don't hear Rachel and I say we don't think it's wise for you to spend your cash on this and then please don't go and say well I'll put it on a payment plan or I'll put it on a credit card. We don't want you to do that. >> yeah. And again, this is always an interesting discussion cuz we get all the people in the comments who They're they're they're animal people.

>> not animal lovers and we are. We love we love animals. We have a dog. We I mean yes, it is great. >> it is your your livelihood on the line.

>> That's right. So we have yes, that's where we have to plug in like we have to be smart about this. Like there is a point of our emotions and attachment

Yes. is over drives like common sense, right?

And some people spend tens of thousands of dollars and the pet does not get better and then they you know what I mean? Like and they may or may not have the money for it. So like So there is we we just have to be logical in this Rebecca. So um And there is something to be said I'm a I'm a poke this bear right quick right before the show is over. >> Mhm. I love it. Um, you have to be able to afford the pets that you have.

Yes. So if you're not in a season where you have a lot of margin, it may not be the season to have pets.

>> throwing George out but George would say sell the horse, you know? He would he would. We don't have the money for to keep up with certain things. He would.

Like there's a point which [music] is sad but they will always they will always come back around.

Well Jade, great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth and remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk [music] daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 151. Stop Letting Emotions Ruin Your Finances | February 11, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in for your question today is8825-55225.88255225.

[music]

Let's start it off with Steve who joins us in Atlanta, Georgia. Steve, how can we help today?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> So, um I'm trying to um get some advice

from you. I've got kind of a long-term problem here with my mother. And um I

[clears throat] think I should give a little backstory here. Um about 15 years

ago or so, uh her house was paid for. Um

and we had her car paid off. Um

I knew she's always been a spender. Um, I've been supplementing her income the last 10 years.

And, you know, I I knew she was spending

on credit cards, so I I I you know,

first I gave her $3,000 uh to pay them off. Then I gave her the next year $5,000 and then it went to seven. And then in 2024,

she had racked up 21,000 in credit card

debt, and I had a heart-to-heart with

her, and I paid them off. Um,

gave her 21,000, and uh um >> Let me guess, it's right there.

>> Yeah. Told her I was uh I was done. I was not doing this anymore. Um

and uh it's just kind of continued.

Where is it today? She Yes, >> she's at 33 now.

>> So, she went above and beyond. She outdid herself. [laughter] >> Yes. And so, last last year, I think I

should if I can continue a little. I uh

I'm just trying to figure out how I can help my mother. I want her to be okay, but I don't want, you know, I I paid her mortgage off. Um, and I didn't pay her

credit cards off. I felt like, uh, at

least I have some control and this is an

asset that's appreciating.

Um, >> what's your what's your question, Steve?

I know you want to keep going on, but we're pretty clear of what's going on here on our end. So, what's your question for us? So my question is, you know, what to do. You know, I don't want to pand Steve. Were you just Were you just playing poker with her and trying to bluff her when you told her you weren't going to do it again?

>> Well, you know, I guess how do I

>> No, no, no, no. Steve, get her to Steve.

Steve, that was a real question.

>> Yes or no? Were you bluffing or did you

mean it? That you were never going to pay off credit cards again?

>> I meant it.

>> Okay, then now you have to you have to prove that you meant it. There's something that you're um there's something in you that feels like you're bad or feels guilt for not solving her

problem.

>> And your guilt about not solving her

problem is stronger than your logic for actually doing the right thing.

Mhm.

[clears throat] >> Well, you know, I understand that. And so I I stood, you know, I took my guns.

She begged me to pay them off again. I didn't do it. Like I said, I paid the mortgage off. In fact, she actually got mad at me for doing that. As crazy as that sounds, >> it does sound crazy, but it sounds crazy for both of you guys. Here's what I want you to not do. Um, if if if Ken and I

give you a response going forward, I want you to not answer with the past, I want you to answer with something also that will be going forward. Is that fair enough?

>> Okay. >> Because the the milk is spilled. Right here we are. There was years of uh enablement and now we're at a a precipice of a new way of doing life for both you and your mother. Right.

>> Correct. >> Hopefully. And so Ken and I are gonna help you get to that point and go forward from here and leave the past in the past.

>> Yeah. So I guess my question to this is

bankruptcy. She's she's she signed up for a debt consolidation company and and uh I don't want her to get taken advantage of. So that's the gist of my call. >> I don't think you have to worry about her being taken advantage of. I think you she she's the take advantager of

right. I don't think you have to worry about that. >> Well, I Steve I listen I I have a lot of sympathy for you. I really do. But you called us and you're asking us questions and and the question that you're not actually asking is what is okay for me to do and what is

not okay for me to do. You're not asking it that way and you're just circling the drain emotionally with her. And so

you're asking like what about bankruptcy and all these things. Here's the deal.

Your mother would be considered uh by

the state wherever she lives, right, as

uh capable of managing her own money.

Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And even then, you're struggling.

You're still making excuses for your mom. Your mom is a grown woman who has

got all kinds of pain. And there's some backstory that leads to all of this behavior, but none of it matters. That's why I'm not going to list it out. What matters is is you. And Jade nailed it.

You're in a really tough emotional spot.

And I think what you're supposed to do here is is acknowledge what kind of a tough emotional spot you're in. I would share it one last time with mom. Hey, I'm now out financially, but I will tell you the residue is I'm emotionally worried for you and I feel like I'm not being a good son. But here's the problem, Mom. If I bail you out, you're not going to stop and it's going to hurt our relationship. So, I can no longer

worry about you. So, I'm going to lay it out. Mom, you can't keep doing this.

Here are your options right now. You're going to have to manage your own money, and you're going to have to wash your hands of this or else it's going to drive you absolutely emotionally insane,

and then you're going to end up truly resenting your mother. Yeah.

>> This is a sad part is that you can't do anything. >> Are you the only child, Steve? Is it just you, >> a grown adult? >> Well, I grew up I grew up Yeah. I So, technically I am. And we could go down some some deeper rabbit holes, but I grew up with uh with two steps and a step. Um, >> and they're not in the equation today.

Are they in the equation today or No, [sighs] >> they're not. >> Okay. And how old is your mom?

She's getting ready to turn 80.

>> Okay. Um, yeah, >> she has some physical u problems.

>> I agree with Ken. She's she's 80, but she's she's still here. She her mind sounds like her mind works plenty well, right?

It's not She's not slipped. Is she slipping?

>> Without going down the rabbit hole, she's she's had some uh depression issues for certain. depression. Okay.

But I'm talking about is she is she with it? Um, you know, does she no dementia, nothing like that, right? >> Aside from her giving you the power of attorney and and basically her custodian for a lack of a better word. I know that's not the right word, so take it easy on me in the comments, >> but aside from her agreeing for you to manage her money, that's all you can do.

So maybe you talk mom into doing that with her being 80 with health problems, then you can manage her money. But aside from her giving you that sad >> she'll she'll die with this debt is the sad part. But that's not your problem.

And I'm really sad that you're in this situation. I think your one move is to go, "Mom, will you let me be in charge of all your money? Give me total control [music] and I'll take care of you." That's the only shot you got.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years

and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

All right, let's go to Stewie in Chicago. I hope I said that right.

Stewie, how can we help?

>> So, I've got probably the opposite problem of the last caller. I am kind of a saver. >> Okay. >> And maybe over the last 10 years, I've been collecting cash, collecting cash. I always throw it in a drawer and I never really use it. And now I realized just the other day I realized I've got about $300,000 in my house.

>> Oh wow. >> Wow.

>> And I'm not I'm unsure of what to do with it. And how did is it do I take it

to the bank? Is it okay? [laughter] >> Is that your only is that your only money, Stewie? Is the 300,000 or have you ever used a bank?

>> No, I have a bank. I have a bank. I It started I don't It started as kind of a game 10 years ago. I'm save I save $100 bills and I just save. I don't know.

[laughter] Um >> Yeah, but that's a lot. >> I got some money in a bank, but I just I got more than I It's too much at the house, it seems like. >> Yeah, it's a it's a risk. >> It's too much. What [laughter] do you What do you have? Do you have a traditional savings account?

>> I have I have got a checking account

>> and I've got a high yield savings account for some other money that I've got. >> Okay. Do you have any investment accounts? anything that's like a 401k or an IRA, anything like that?

>> I never have. >> Okay. Okay. How old are you, Stewie?

>> I 50. I just turned 50. Okay.

>> You have no 401k, no retirement account of any kind.

>> Never have. >> Who do you work for? Well, you don't need to tell us that because I want to keep you as private as possible. But what kind of work do you do?

>> I'm self-employed. I work in agriculture

>> and I and our business does >> our business takes in a lot of cash and I just at one point I decided, you know what, I like cash. I'm going to keep it around and out of hand to see.

>> Well, listen. So, Jade is pulling up her uh handy dandy investment calculator.

This is off of Ramseyolutions website, ramiesolutions.com.

You need to pay close attention, Stewie, with the numbers and then she'll tell you what to do. So Stewie, with you just saving these $100 bills, what would you say on in a month, how much do you think you put away into savings under your mattress or wherever it is in your house? >> I have no It's slowed down quite a bit.

My family's a lot larger now. Um the kids are bigger. We're spending more.

>> Sure. But I mean, is it 500 bucks? Is it to you know, give me a ballpark?

>> Yeah, 500 to a,000 probably. 500.

>> Okay, I'll say 500. So, here's what I here's what I want to show you. Uh, first off, if you take that money and you invest it, which you should be doing, because the truth is the time is going to come when you don't work, right? You're 50. I'm sure there's going to be a time where you don't want to have to go into work. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And you need to have a nest egg of money to draw off of, and there's a limited

amount of time for you to build that nest egg. Fair enough.

>> True. Therefore, we need to harness the power of compounding interest. And when

it's at home, there's zero compounding interest. As a matter of fact, it's almost negative. It's depleting the value of your money because inflation, right? There's no hedge against inflation. And you understand that.

>> So, if we can, you know, next step is yeah, you pop it in a high yield savings and maybe get 3.5% or maybe 4%. That's

okay. But if you were to invest it in really just kind of your basic index

fund, you know, good growth stock,

mutual fund, growth in income, you could really have an average annualized rate

of return of around 10%. Like you could pretty much bet on that. Okay. So, [snorts] if we did that, if we just popped that 300,000 into an index fund, I mean, you don't even have to get sophisticated here.

that money and you just said, "Hey, instead of putting the $500 that I sock away under the mattress, I'm going to just add that to that pile every month." Do you know that just in 17 years by the

time you're 67, you're going to have it would be almost $2 million. It'd be 1.89

million.

>> I mean, it seems hard to believe, but I I believe you. >> Yeah. And it and it is. And you need here the bigger part is you need that money because you said your family's continued to grow. There will come a day whether you want it or not that you can't work. So if I were in your shoes too and I I know Ken would do the same.

We would be skipping down to the bank,

you know, we'd be skipping over to uh invest that money right away because you said how much do you have in the high yield savings?

>> Uh probably 400.

>> Oh man. Oh man, you're a rich man, Stewie. >> Hold on. I just want to make sure. 400,000.

>> I do. >> Okay. So, that's amazing. But listen,

you've got to get with a Smart Invest Pro. Gotcha. >> Okay. So, we're going to have Christian direct you uh to the spot on our website. You need to interview a minimum of three Smart Veester pros. They're independent of us. They're licensed, the whole nine yards, but they'll advise you the way we've advised you. and you are sitting on $700,000 in cash. So, what our advice would be is

that you have 3 to six months of your expenses in that savings account, high

yield. Okay? So, let's just say for sake of discussion, that's 50,000.

>> I'd even let him keep a hundred. Clearly, Stewie is the type that likes >> Okay, so let's say he keeps a hundred in there. So, now we've got $600,000 that

you need to get invested soon.

in in really good the mutual funds that she's talking about and let that money go to work for you and no longer are we putting money in the drawer the way you pay yourself the smart vest pro that you

select and go with and they're going to explain everything to where you understand it >> and your eyes are going to bug out of your head. >> Yeah. >> And now you start doing what Jade told you to do and again you're going to be a very very wealthy person. Uh, but you

need to get on it because you've lost who knows how many millions of dollars by not having done this earlier. And at 50, it's time for you to step up and do this. There's nothing to be scared of, and they'll explain it well, but that's your next step. >> What's your aversion to it, Stewie? What is what's caused you to kind of shy away from that?

>> I don't know if I have an answer. It started out as a game. I thought I I like saving money and so I started as and then I thought you know what >> I I I feel I felt maybe at sometime I'm fearful of the stock I am fearful of the stock market. >> Okay, that's what I was getting to.

Tell tell us about that. Why are you fearful of the stock stock market because that that originated somewhere and if we can just put our finger on that we can we can change that and shift that in your mind for you. [snorts] >> I'm not sure. I mean I know that my grandpa told me stories of hardship during the depression.

I don't know if that's enough to just Yes.

>> know that I'm scared of the stock market stock market. >> Stewie, spend some time thinking about that tonight because those stories, all of those things. Grandma, grandpa told me this. I saw an image of this.

I heard this sto report on TV. I read this in the news. All of that stuff starts to build up and it starts to inform our our view on a particular subject. And the thing is that's okay.

That's normal. But we do have to come to a point where we challenge it and we say, "Okay, this is the story I'm telling myself. Is it actually true? Is it true?

But if I actually hold it up next to facts, I find out that that's actually not the truth. And so I love that you called in today cuz Ken and I are giving we are giving you the facts. The truth is the annualized rate of return of the

stock market since inception has been hovered around anywhere between 9 to 12%, right? Depending on a given year.

And so it's always going to it's always ended up up. And yes, there's been downturns, but usually it recovers very quickly within the next year or two after it's it's fully recovered and then some. And so the point of the stock market is it's a long-term it's a long-term ride, right? It's not something you hop in and hop out of. But in your case, Stewie, oh my goodness.

You pop in 600,000 and maybe you leave the other 100,000 liquid. And I mean, you're going to be a very rich man when when it comes time to retire. So well done. >> Mhm.

And I would be very careful about how I transported the 300,000 in cash to the bank. >> What do you do? You put it in a duffel bag. >> Even that looks pretty obvious.

If some dude rolls into your local bank and a duffel bag, you're like, there's cash in that bag. >> Yeah. Be careful, Stewie. They're going to >> I don't know how many trips [laughter] you got in there.

>> Oh man. And it Oh god. [laughter] >> I'd think about some security on that.

It's a lot of dough.

>> You got >> Can you walk Can you just walk in with that kind of money? And >> I don't No. Here's what I would ask. I would go talk to my local bank >> and the branch and say, "Here's what I've done.

Help me do this the most secure way. They they've done this before." So, >> okay. >> Yeah. >> Otherwise, you're going to need some very, very muscle bound people to walk with you.

>> I I was putting [laughter] myself in his shoes.

Something crazy random would happen to me. >> Yeah. And you know what I mean? >> And you'd be on the side of the road just with the stack of cash. >> Yeah. I think I'd go hire a local Brinks guy and just be like, "Lock me in the back of this thing with it and drop me off." [laughter] >> Yeah. >> No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That's not what you should do. Go talk to your local branch manager, get a plan, and go

talk to a Smart Vtor pro.

[music]

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[music]

[music]

[music] All right. We wish we could get to every call and question here on the show.

There's just so many calls, so little time. So, if you have a money question and want an answer for your situation, you can now head to our website and use Ask Ramsay. This is our free AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsay principles. You get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, ask your question today at

ramseyolutions.com and click on ask Ramsay or if you're watching on YouTube or listening to the podcast, you can click uh on the link in the show notes. You think if you if you ask it a question, it'll say in your kin voice. >> No, >> I gotta tell you. >> It ain't going to do that. >> The I gota tell >> I'll tell you what it will do. It's going to give you the fundamentals, but it ain't going to give you my special sauce. >> The sauce the juice the way I would answer it.

[laughter] Uh not going to be as pragmatic as me.

I'll tell you that right now. Okay.

>> But gonna get you your pure fundamental answer. >> You'll get you Yeah, you will get you will get a Ramsey plan answer.

>> There you go. Damian is up in Lincoln, Nebraska. Damian, how can we help today?

>> Uh, I just had a question for you. Um, so I got this pile of debt that I've accumulated over the past couple years.

It started with just some small consumer debt and an auto loan. Um, started working on that and then this past year I had a four-wheel accident that put me in a pretty big bind with um bunch of

medical debt. I had unfortunately dropped my in or my parent I had dropped off my parents insurance and I forgot to sign myself up for my own when I rolled into my new job. So I uh got a pretty hefty

pile there. >> Oh man. So, yeah, I'm kind of leaning between is it a go into chapter 7 and

just wipe the whole slate clean or I've

gotten met to the point where my income and expenses are all leveled out and I'm actually able to start paying down debt.

Um, >> how much is the medical debt?

>> Uh, 210,000.

>> Oh, wow. Okay.

>> Do you now have insurance currently?

>> Uh, yeah. Okay. >> Yep. I've always had it. I just forgot for the one year and I thought I'd be fine, but >> Oh man, you got God got, didn't you?

That's the odds of that are so crazy.

>> Okay, so the 210, is that the only debt?

>> Uh, no. I have 19,000 in a card, credit

card debt that has went to collections.

Uh 18,000 on a auto loan that I had let

go to repossession. Uh 4,000 on student

loans. And then the 210.

Okay. Um, was the credit cards in the

repo a result of this injury? Is that

kind of >> Tell me more about that. >> They would have been Yeah, they would have been prior. Um, so years I've been following you guys for like 10 years now. I had worked my way down on credit card and then uh we had moved to Lincoln

and I built it back up during that whole moving process and just never paid more than the minimum. So that that was there. And then uh with all of those adding up, the auto payment was uh just

killing me. So I should stop paying on it. >> Oh boy. Okay. Um and but you said you're steady now. Like what's your income today? What do you make? What do you bring home every month?

>> So before tax I'm 82,000 a year and then

plus a bonus. Um but my take-home monthly is about 4,700.

>> Okay. Okay. And do the bonuses do they hit like at at the end of the year?

>> Yep. In October. And this last year we

got a very minimal one. So let's see what this year ends up being. It was 2000. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I would not

do bankruptcy. I know that that probably feels tempting, but I think what's going to end up happening is you don't have a whole lot of money to give these creditors. Obviously, um you have a little bit, but you don't have much. And so I would start working with them on some sort of settlement pretty soon. Uh how long have these been due? Have any of them rolled into collections?

>> Uh so all of the cards are the medical is I think one of them has. It was like a $20,000 one. The rest is still with the u the biller.

>> Yes. >> At this time. >> Yeah. Okay.

So for the one that's rolled into collections, you're now positioned to make some sort of a deal. and I would just do them one by one and roll them off. Uh I, you know, whatever the smallest credit card is, I'd go over there and say, "This has been in collections for x amount of years." And I'd stack up a little bit of cash. So, for instance, uh what's the smallest credit card that you have in collections?

>> Uh I think there's like three of them that are about $500. Okay.

>> Yeah. But you're not paying $500. I'd go to them and I'd say, "I [clears throat] can give you 100 bucks." And they're going to take it. >> Mhm. >> And you're just going to scratch them out just like that. The thing is, get it all in writing and and I would just let them know I'd be like, "This is just the tip of the iceberg of the debt that I have." So, if you think that you're getting any more money than this, you're not. And and and just be on them the

same way you're they're on you. Just call them and call them and call them and say, "Here's my offer. Here's my offer." And they might come back and say, "What about 250?" Fine. At this point, it's low enough.

Yes, go ahead and take whatever deal they offer. But for the bigger ones, when you start getting into that medical debt, yeah, you're you're going to really whittle it down.

>> Okay. On the uh so with the auto one

that had rolled over into collections, they are wanting to do a settlement for really cheap. Like I said, $18,000 is what I owe and they were wanting to do 900. The only thing that was concerning me is that they list on there that they will file a $1099 on that and I was kind

of confused how that whole process worked. >> Well, that's the least of your worries.

$900 settlement on an 18 $18,000 debt on

a car. You're taking that and you deal with it. So the 1099 jade, that's just

their way of that's how they're writing it off and then they because they're eating this big time.

>> That's about them. That's >> you have no choice in the matter on that. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And it's a small amount of money. So back to Jade's point, like same thing on if somebody told you you were going to get some 1099 income and you're going to go do $1,000 worth of landscaping, you would hold back, right? 30% just to be safe. >> So you're just thinking about that.

talk to your tax pro because you're starting to knock stuff off. So, don't be concerned about that. >> Yeah. So, what you need to be looking at is if you're trying to settle this, it's really common that you could settle a debt for anywhere between 30 to 50% of the balance if it's already in collections.

So, that's kind of the range that you want to aim in.

balance. Okay? That's kind of where you want to be. You want to make sure that you have that lump sum and you want to make sure that you have it all documented. I mean, this is when you get that letter, [laughter] this is the one that you laminate and you put it you put it in a ice, you you know, put it in ice

and keep it forever. Okay.

>> It's true. [laughter] I love that. Yeah.

So, Damian, yeah, I mean, you are actually working through this the right way. You don't need to file bankruptcy.

You just settle these things one at a time. And now the big question is, are you learning your lesson?

>> Oh, it is. It is learned many times over. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and here's the deal.

We asked that, by the way, not to put any kind of shame on you, >> but really so that there's some conviction that's developed out of this.

You know what I mean? Because none of us are sitting here without anything dumb.

You've heard Dave say it for decades. I got a PhD in DUMB. So, but this is the

key, right? Get through this, but never again.

Yeah. No, I this is not a journey I ever want to take again. That is that is for sure. >> And you're going to have to deal with some I mean the the truth is uh you

can't afford to pay all of these. So 1800 pay me is going to be blowing up your line. Y >> and that that right there uh is more

detrimental. Yeah. >> Speak to that because you've actually walked through that. How does not just uh Damian but other people that are experiencing give them that mindset of what their options actually are?

Well, number one, it it it feels detrimental because they're calling you all the time and they it makes you feel bad about yourself, right? And that's the trap I don't want you to fall into because you do have a plan and you're sticking to your plan. And that's really what you have to tell them.

You're next or I'm getting to you next.

And when I get to you, you better be ready to make a deal." Uh-huh. So, that's kind of the way that goes. Uh I I'm more telling you it as a friendly warning. If you get to the point that you're able to make some minimum payments there, [music] you could, but it's not really going to help you when it comes to settling it.

>> Yeah. Really good advice. So, hey, [music] uh there is a way. Seems like you've got the will now and uh we're cheering you on and better days are ahead here, but you got to finish this.

>> [music]

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[music]

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>> All right, let's go to Tyler who joins us now in Wilmington, Delaware. Tyler, how can we help today?

So, I'm in this uh relationship where I feel like I get uh leaned on financially

pretty well and I'm very young and I do

pretty well as of right now. I have a lot of money saved up and I just am wondering the, you know, perspective that you guys may have on is that like a healthy relationship or should I be using this time at my age to generate

more wealth than what I'm doing current?

>> What is the relationship? Is this a marriage? Is this dating? What are we talking about? >> Dating. >> Okay. How long you've been dating?

>> Uh, a year and a half.

>> Year and a half. How much money do you make?

>> 135. >> And um you said you've you've been uh putting stuff away. Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. >> And what kind of retirement situation you starting to build?

Um, I max out my uh 401k and then I uh

have about in my private savings account

just around $100,000 making me about 18%

a year. >> Okay. So, tell me about the other person in this relationship. What do they do and how much do they make?

um they are in uh mental health and they

make around $50,000 a year with um

somewhere near 70 $80,000 in debt currently. >> Okay, now let's get to the crux of the call. Um >> yes, >> what do you mean by leaned on? Like let's get real here. Like we need we need an example that really bothers you.

either hurt you or angered you or maybe one of each. [laughter] I'm gathering all this for for Jade and I to be able to to weigh in here. So, give us some examples or one good example.

>> I would say like vacations and then like weekend funds, dates, everything along

those lines. It's like you pay for vacation.

>> Yes. >> The whole thing.

>> Yep. >> And is it manipulative in how she puts that out there? Like how is that decided?

No, it's more of just like

she knows that I know and that it's like really not even up for discussion.

>> So, who who wait?

>> How does she know that? >> Yeah.

>> Well, just that like she knows that I know she's not in a great financial situation. And like, you know, in this young day and age, I feel like, you know, >> females want to do all the fun stuff and just because the situation, they may not be able to. It's just >> he just went he just went females. When you say females, that already lets me know something has gone down.

>> I [laughter] agree. >> That's caused you to be uh you're feeling some type of way. >> I haven't heard yet, Jade. Anything where she's leaning on you?

>> Well, that's what I'm going to get to.

Tell me how the conversation goes down.

Is it you saying, "Oh, it's, you know, it's July. We should probably go on vacation. What do you have in mind?" Or is it her bringing up, "Hey, it's July.

We should probably go on vacation. What do you have in mind?" like tell me how the conversations go and and and I need that because it's very different if you saying hey you know let's go let's go down to Fort Lauderdale and she's like okay and and you're like hey I made the reservation for the Hilton and she's like okay and then you just go versus her saying where do you want to go uh honey and you're like well I don't know and she says well I found this really cute place I think we should go here and then you're like whoa okay right all of that matters so I want to know how it goes >> I say it's more of like a oh we should do something and then like I'm a very minimalist person and then the perspective on their end gets a little starts to you know the standard starts to increase and then it just kind of goes from there.

>> Okay, listen I ain't saying she's the gold digger.

>> I think do you feel that? I want to make sure I get the female perspective. I feel the Okay, I get the lean. So

>> where where are you relationally with this gal?

Like is this >> I don't I don't live with them. No.

>> No, no, no. I I'm not even I wasn't even getting into that. I'm saying good.

>> Uh what's your on a scale of one to 10?

10 being she's absolutely one. I'm going to marry her no matter what. Or one

being could care less if I'm in this relationship one more day. There's your extremes. Where are you at with her?

>> I Yeah, I feel like I'm like right in the middle. It's just like a little stuck situation. I do care about that.

You know what I You care about her, but this is troubling you.

>> Yes. >> So, what we need to decipher here is the line, and Ken, you're just the man to do this. We need to decipher the line between the classic chivalous male

behavior. And I know I'm I'm choosing.

>> I would agree. I would agree.

>> And then what is too much and um kind of

like the lean as what what we called it.

So, I'm going to start by saying yes. If you take me on a date, especially like you're not living together, like there's no like intent that we are in any way beyond dating. I'm expecting the male to pay every single time. >> Totally agree. And I would say yes, you should be paying for dates. You guys have been dating how many years?

>> Yeah. One and a half. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're paying for dates. However, when she comes up with an idea that is an expensive idea, and by the way, you get to determine what you feel is expensive.

This is a two-way street.

>> That's right. And you're the money.

>> So when she brings that up, you should feel free to say that feels like it's

too much.

>> And you can explain why.

>> I agree. >> And and I think it's incumbent on you to explain why. Then if she follows up and goes, well, why why then you start to go, you know what?

Some of this is on me because in the past you've suggested stuff that I would not normally pay for given my views on money. and I've got a formula in place.

I don't want to spend this much. You lay it all out so she knows where you're coming from. She shouldn't be guessing.

>> On a vacation. >> Yes. On a vacation. >> What's the chival risk behavior? I'm thinking half and half. >> It's half and half. But but I'm saying he has to take that stand and and think about it ahead of time and then say no.

He has to feel comfortable going, I'm not comfortable going on a $6,000 vacation. >> I I I I agree with that. I agree with that. >> And she goes, why? You explain it. And let's say you go, and I'm making this up. You go, I'm comfortable with a $2,000 vac. Okay, great. So then you explain to her, but I think you should be paying for half of it. Well, I can't right now. We aren't going.

>> Or we pick something more in your budget. >> Yeah. And then go and let this bleed into and I probably the wrong word. Let this lead into a bigger conversation about money so that you, my friend, can go from being a

five to a eight, nine, or a 10 on

whether or not we stay in this relationship. >> You're looking for certainty right now because Jade, I'm going to bring it back to you. You're in the weeds on this and the data and you coach people >> because he's dating right now and he's on a five. >> Yes.

If this doesn't go to some certainty on whether or not they're a good fit from a value standpoint on money, this causes how many issues down the line? >> It's going to cause so I mean it's the number one number two depending on what piece of research you're looking at cause of divorce, money fights and money problems.

each of your philosophies on money. And now is not the time to try to change somebody. Now is the time to try to go, who are you for real? >> Great point. >> You know, I want to see who you are for real and and vice versa.

>> Yeah. Now, if she says, "Okay,

I she needs to feel the weight." >> Yes. >> Of this. And we hope, Tyler, that this

goes one of two ways. My hope is is that

she reveals herself. Jade's absolutely right. And so, once she reveals herself, and what we mean by that is how she views money, at which point we now get to have a very serious conversation about how you view money. And is there a bridge to where we meet in the middle?

in middle being, I'll help you and guide you and teach the principles that I've been living by, right? If you're willing to do it, that's me in the middle here. And then you're going to find out really quick whether or not she values you enough to change her values about money.

>> Yes. But the key strategy to what Ken is saying, and this is key, and this is for anybody listening, when you bring up the money conversation, the first question,

you don't say your philosophy first.

>> Good. You let them say first because if they really like you and you say, "Oh, debt. I Yeah, I don't do debt." They're going to go, "Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah, me too." If they really like you and they think that you right, people tend to kind of shapeshift, especially in those early stages. So, you first say, >> "What's your philosophy on debt?" And just shut up. Let them talk. Don't

influence anything they're saying. You need to see this. You need to hear it.

Then you go, "Okay, well, would you like to know mine?" >> It's a great point. So, Tyler, this feels like this is a massive, massive moment in this relatively young relationship. So, step into it and uh let's see how this plays out. But you got a great head on your shoulders.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside the incomparable fabulous Jade Warshaw.

I'm just Ken. Coleman is the last name.

Excited that you're with us.

88825-5225LE8825-55225

is the number to jump in. All right, let's go to Jeff in Salt Lake City.

Jeff, how can we help today?

>> Uh, thanks for having me. Sure.

>> Um, so I lost my job um a financial

adviser, lost my job back in June of

2025. Um, I was without gain meaningful

employment for gosh almost 5 months. Um, it took me

took me five months to get hired on with another firm. Um,

and so now I am going I mean I still

have not received a paycheck for my new job and the whole situation has just been really a disaster for um my family,

for my home life, for my finances.

Um >> Okay. How long can you >> How long have you been at the new job?

>> Um I hired on in November. Um,

and >> what is the reason?

>> Okay. What is the reason for you starting last November and you still haven't received a paycheck?

>> Um, trying to transition my old business

over. Um, when I was let go from my

previous firm, probably half of my my

existing book of business was ready to move with me. And with everything taking

so long, most [snorts] of those clients have unfortunately moved on. Um, >> what kind of business are you in?

>> I'm a financial adviser.

>> So, you left one firm and you've signed off with another firm, but it's basically straight commission. You're just that they're a place for you to hang your hat essentially. You couldn't continue to serve those others >> independently until you landed at a

another umbrella business.

>> I could not. So I was I was terminated from that from my original job. Um I had

been with the firm for probably eight years and when I was terminated I mean I

had no I mean I could sit there and I could continue to contact them and talk with them but ultimately they wanted somebody who could you know >> like do the work. Yeah. >> All right. So, >> I couldn't do that. >> All right. So, for sake of time, let's get into what kind of disaster has happened so that we know what we're and and and and frame the question for us.

So, we need to know where you're at financially, but what can we help with specifically as you lay this out for us?

>> Yeah. So, so we have we have blown through um just about all of our savings.

Um >> how much is left in savings?

Maybe 10,000. >> 10,000. Okay. So, how much debt do you have?

>> Um I think we only have about uh 15,000

in debt. >> Okay. And when do you expect to make the pay like have you >> What's going on there? Are you finding new folks? Are you able to get the others fired back up again?

>> What's the reality here?

>> It's been very slow. Um right now I'm pulling in about two clients a month.

What were you doing before? What was your normal month for you before?

>> I mean, before I I managed to book a business of about $100 million. I mean, it I I was >> Yeah, but she's how much did you make?

[snorts] >> I was for 2025, I would have had I been had I remained employed, I would have made I would have made probably 300,000 that year. >> Okay. >> Oh gosh. Okay. >> So, you didn't really answer her question. When do you expect to actually get paid?

I should get paid this month. >> How much? >> But I don't The thing is >> it could be 5,000.

>> Okay. Oh boy. I'm way off of where I was. >> But we only have 15,000 in debt.

Correct.

>> Okay. Then what is your what is your monthly budget that you just bare minimum to take care of all the the important things? How much do you have to be bringing in? What is that number?

Um,

I mean, take care of everything. I mean, we've we've got three kids. We've got school tuition and and all that stuff. I mean, we're we're probably at at at 10,000 a month. >> Okay. >> Is where I need to be to >> Okay. You need 10,000 a month. Can I ask a question? Um, what precludes you from

being on your own as a financial adviser? What's the thing that stops you from just saying, "Hey, I Jeff, I'm my own man. and I'm my own business and I I can just run my business versus being under an umbrella because you don't really with two clients, you don't really have the luxury of somebody taking a major piece of every chunk of money that you get. You see what I'm saying? >> So, I am I am considered independent at this point. I'm a 1099 adviser, whereas at my previous firm I was W2.

>> Okay? >> And that firm was taking roughly 60% of, you know, the cut. >> And and what's this firm taking?

um they they only take about 15%.

>> Right. And but my my and my question remains, what's the benefit there for you because they're clearly not giving you leads?

>> Correct. There's no there are no leads there. There's there's really no support. >> No, it's on you. I've got a good friend who just got into this business two years ago. A couple things here to fast forward this. You're not in a massive debt situation. That's the good news, right? Your problem is is your income.

and and you presented at the start of this call like there's some family stuff going on, but this is this is a point

where you've got to make some money like >> Yeah. >> right now and you know how to build a book book of business. Yes or no?

>> Yeah. >> All right then. Then like bro, we're in desperate I I don't have some magic pill of advice here. Three tips on how to win as a financial planner. You actually know how to do it. You've got to do it.

Now, in the meantime, I don't know what's going on and we don't have time and quite frankly, I don't think it matters as to why you got fired, what it's done to your home life, cuz you mentioned it. >> But if your wife can work and is not working, we are in a season where she needs to because we have a $5,000 deficit that is hitting us really quickly and we only have $10,000 of

savings left. So, we're in go get it mode. Am I right, Jade? What am I missing? Well, I just want to remind you that you're the same guy who had who did $300,000 of income last year.

>> You're that same guy. Um I don't think you remember that. Like talking to you, it feels like you've forgotten that you're that guy. >> And that's why I'm encouraging you. I don't think you need uh you know, whatever this umbrella company is. I think you can just go out there. I think you can, in the words of Dave Ramsey, kill something, drag it home, and eat it. And I think that you're getting too hung up on these other details. I to

Ken's point, you know how to build a book of business and you've done it before. Nothing is stopping you from doing it again. I think the last five months really dinged your self-esteem, but I mean Ken, he's the same guy.

>> Yeah. I Jeff, I'll just ask a point blank question. This is a yes or no answer. Are you dealing with a lot of shame?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, are you seeing a therapist

>> on and off? >> Okay. There's a book that I'm going to recommend to you and it's a heavy heavy read, but it's worth reading. I've read it, am reading it. It's called Healing the Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw. It's considered the the the the foremost book written on shame. I think it's really important that you grasp the concepts in that book as well as therapy. Uh, but you got to throw your shoulders back right now. We don't have time to be ashamed, but it's a real

feeling. It's underneath there. But I really recommend that you read that book [music] that you lean in. But this is circle the wagons time with your wife.

Let's go. We can figure this out. We absolutely can. And now we must. And and

[music] what I'm hearing is a guy who rightfully so is ashamed of himself.

We've all been there. But man, you have so much more to give. You're going to learn a lot through this season. So let's go, man.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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All right, next we go to Cord Delane, Idaho. Alexandra is there. Alexandra, how can we help today?

>> Hi, my husband and I love you guys. Um, you guys helped us so much get out of student debt when we were first married.

Um, I'm calling because I have a question with my husband and I were not in total in agreement on how to spend money. Now that we're out of debt, we are on baby step four. Okay. Um, and

we're in the process of buying a home and we're trying to do it the Ramsay way. But now that we're in a better spot, just learning how to spend money now, what it looks like. Um, specifically my stepsister and my best friend are both getting married out of the country this year and I was hoping to attend their wedding even though doing so will be expensive and my husband feels like traveling like this is really like financially irresponsible and but he said if I called you guys and got your permission that we could go. So

my specific question this is our favorite. You couldn't have, in my opinion, couldn't have got two better co-hosts today because we have disagreed on these things from time to time. And I'll just tell you, I'm usually more lenient. >> I don't know if we'll disagree this time, >> Jade. We don't know. It's starting off pretty good. >> Yeah, I heard baby step four, so it's already looking good. >> Couple quick clarifying questions.

>> You said two weddings. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> Stepsister and best friend.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And where are both weddings?

One is in Italy and one is in Sri Lanka.

>> Oh Neither one of those uh are

discount airlines. So that's that's going to be expensive. Have you run the numbers on what these trips are going to cost? Both together.

>> I think together it would be about $10,000.

>> How what what's the time frame? Are they both over the summer or are they spread out at all?

>> One is in May and one is in August.

>> Oh lordy. Which one's in May?

>> The Italy one. >> Is that Is that the best friend? No, that's the stepsister.

>> Yes. Okay. >> Is Is Hubs included in this number? Is

he going with you on both?

>> He's going with me to one, not for the other though, because we have a toddler and we think it'd be too much for the toddler. >> Yeah, 100%. So, by the way, it's so just clarifying, it's 10,000 for you to go to

both and him to go to one, >> right? >> Which one is he going to?

>> The one with my steps sister in Italy.

>> Okay, good choice. >> So, the first one. Okay, >> good choice. I like his choice.

>> So, do you have the money? Do you have the money set aside?

Not yet, but right now with we do every dollar and we have about like 2,000 after like um retirement and all of our necessary expenses. So, I think if we save for the next couple of months, we could easily save up for it, but we haven't done so yet.

>> Okay. So, I love solving these with what

I'm going to call the financially responsible adult checklist, which is going to give you some freedom here.

>> I'm glad you're doing your eyes roll. I'm already ready to decide. I'm already ready. I've already decided. >> I mean, I I think I have two, but I'm giving her the framework on how we arrived. >> This is good. >> So, there's five things in the financially responsible adult checklist.

Number one, are you a person who's on a budget? Yes. You mentioned every dollar beautifully several times. >> Check. >> Check. Number two, are you a person who is out of debt and plans to stay out of debt? >> Check. >> Check. Number three, are you a person who carries the proper insuranceances?

Now, this means, have you started your term life insurance? You've got a little one there. Uh, one of you depends on each other's income. If you haven't done that, you need to do that before you make the decision. >> Okay, let's get an answer. Where are we at on that one?

>> We both have life insurance.

>> Check. >> I had to lasso. Okay, that's number three. >> This one is, are you a person who uh is saving for the future? Now, this means three things. Uh, you've got your baby step one. You already did that. You've got baby step three in place. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Uh, yes. That's retirement, right?

>> Uh, again, no. Baby step three is 3 to six months of >> expenses. >> Yes. >> They she said they were on baby step four. Is that right? Okay. >> And you're act you're actively doing the 15% to retirement, >> right? >> And are you actively putting something towards a down payment on a house? You mentioned that.

>> Yes. We're in escar right now actually.

>> Yes. Okay. >> That's four out of four. >> That's four. And then there's a fifth one. The fifth one on the financially responsible list is, are you prioritizing generosity?

>> Yeah, we tithe.

Listen, that's all you need. That's all you need. Everything else is you just got >> The tough one to get through is gonna always be Jade. She's just tougher than me. She just is. No surprise.

>> I lift with weights, kid. >> Um, yes, you do. And, uh, showing off the guns again. Uh, so the fact that you

guys can actually cash flow this, this is a no-brainer. Tell Hubs that you have two yeses. >> Yes. >> And this is an American Idol, so you only need two. In the words of Clubber, [laughter] In the words of Clubber Lang.

Ding ding. >> Ding ding. I love the Rocky reference.

[laughter] Fantastic. Alexander. It sounds like it's going to be a blast.

>> Have fun. >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. And good for you, by the way. Love that you guys. And by the way, let's just be very clear to our greater audience here. She doesn't need our permission. We're have a little bit of fun with this. But I love that you listened to Jade walk through those five boxes. That's fantastic. Uh, and in this

case, I love too that they were like, I'll go to the one in Sri Lanka and I'll stay back. That's great. You don't always have to both be there.

>> Yeah, you don't have to do that. >> It's the thought that counts. >> Plus, let's be honest. Does any man ever want to go to a wedding, Ken? >> No. I've been very clear on this.

[laughter] Uh, no dude ever wants to go.

>> Even Even a destination wedding, the destination doesn't zing it up for you.

>> No. In fact, if Stacy said to me tonight, "Hey, we've been invited to a wedding in um Barbados." >> You love Barbados? >> I love and been to Barbados, but I would be in but slightly irritated. And if she said to me, "Well, you don't have to go to the ceremony." Then I would be [laughter] like, "Oh, I'm totally in." >> Right now you're just her sidekick.

>> Yeah, I'm just travel buddy. And buddy, we're we're there in Barbados.

>> I don't have to go to the ceremony. But if you say you got to go to the ceremony, I'm telling you I have a bad attitude about going to Barbados and this is my point example, [laughter] which I shouldn't have. Yeah. Ever.

>> Now, what if it was all you have to do is go to the uh the reception? Does that

change it? >> No. No ceremony, only reception.

>> No one's ever asked me this before.

Yeah, >> that does change it. >> Yeah, because I think I don't have to sit through the ceremony, all the formalities, >> straight to the drink, straight >> straight to the wedding cake. >> Yeah. Well, my followup question is, is there rum at the reception?

>> There better be. It's in Barbados.

>> Then I'm in. There you go. Columbia, South Carolina is where we go next.

Kevin is waiting. Kevin, how can we help?

>> Yes. Um, I've got a scenario here and

we're trying to figure out. We bought a home um one year ago. We put 10% down at

7%. We then sold our other home and we

have now uh we have one year they said

you can recast. We have 200,000 cash right now in the bank that we're looking at putting at recasting or refying the current to bring down the mortgage, get rid of PMI, all that good stuff. But in our new home, we're also looking at poss uh maybe 50,000 cash aside because there's certain things we'd like to do home improvements like a retaining wall, a fence, additional car parking spots, things like that.

>> Okay. Uh let me just make sure I understood it back. You talked really fast. I think I got all of it. There were two houses. One sold. Now there's only one. The most expensive one. You want to put 200,000 possibly to recast it so the payment's lower. Did I catch it?

>> Um, we have we there was two. Yes, there was two. We sold one and now Exactly.

Now we want to recast possible out of that 200k. >> But you're thinking maybe hold back 50 for the for the improvements.

>> We're kind of thinking hold back 50 because we have some home improvement ideas, but we want to make sure we don't overbuild the neighborhood. I want to know about do I you know do I get this money back or is it better to put it into recasting the the current house?

>> So tell me well it really most of this

rides greatly on the recast. Um when you

if you put the whole 200,000 on the recast is it going to get your monthly payment where it needs to be [snorts] 25% of your takehome?

Uh it currently is already. It's uh we

our mortgage is currently within 25% of our take home pay currently >> already. So then what's the purpose of recasting? Why [clears throat] wouldn't you just put it apply it towards the principal and just [music] pay down the house?

>> Um well they said if you recast is what we were told. If you recast within a year you can put that money and it'll it'll lower the month the mortgage payment as well.

>> It will pay less interest. It will but less money will go to the principal. [music] So what by you doing that you're kind of shifting everything towards um if you just had a smaller payment. The smaller payment means less goes to the principal and the the less goes to interest or the same amount goes to interest. So you're robbing your principal payment at that point. So that's why I wouldn't do that.

I would just [music] apply it to the principal if you want to pay the mortgage down.

>> [music]

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All

right. Uh, want to do a quick followup, Jade. I know you wanted to say a little bit more about our last caller. Uh, to do some clarification.

apply a principal payment extra payment and just lower the the the principal, the entire balance completely. He wanted to recast it, which basically what it does, let's pretend he bought the house for 400,000. I think he told us uh it was at 7%. When you recast it, the the

the lump sum would go directly to there.

And so they're now they're re recasting

the balance at the new the new amount.

So it' be at 200,000, but the terms are still the same. So, it' still be at 7%.

It'd still be on a 30-year mortgage. So, I suggested what I suggested, which is only put it towards the principal. Don't recast because the point here is to pay

the thing off fast. Like, we want you to pay the mortgage off. If he recasts it, since the terms are the same, it's still on a 30-year or a 15ear, whatever he had, and it's not going directly in that way. So, if he if he wanted to, and I'm

not saying that this is the best thing, uh, if he did recast it, um, and then he

[clears throat] still paid the mortgage as though it was the old mortgage, >> that could kind of be a move. But really, the only benefit there I could see is like, I don't know, it's almost like a contingency, like if I fell on hard times, my payment would be lower.

Um, but that's not really the Ramsay way. The better way here is to go go for the principal, go for paying off the mortgage, saving time. Time is of the essence so you can take that money and later on use it to build uh other types of wealth. >> Love it. All right. Great clarification there. Uh the number to jump in825-5225.

Kate is up next in Newark, New Jersey.

Kate, how can we help?

>> Yes. Hi. Um Ken and Jade, first of all,

I want to say thank you so much for taking my call. I'm nervous. Don't worry, we we are on your team. We're going to take good care of you.

>> Thank you so much. Um you're my favorite duo, by the way. I listen to you guys every day. >> Well, now we're going to be extra nice now. Look what you've done.

>> What's going on? How can we help?

>> My question is, um so real quick, I'll

just give you my question and then whatever details you need, just ask. Uh, the question I have is, um, I don't know

if we'll be able to continue making house payments because my husband is a spend thrift and we can't keep up with our monthly minimums due to how much debt he's racked up in the year that we've had. This is um that we've bought our house and now we are paycheck to paycheck or house for.

>> What What has he racked up?

>> $12,000 in credit card debt in a year.

>> Okay. What is the minimum payment on that 12,000?

>> So, it's all different um it's six different actually seven different credit cards. >> Okay. >> The monthly minimums Yeah. are about $715 a month. >> Wow. >> For all of them. >> What's your mortgage payment? >> Yeah.

>> 3,138.

>> What's your combined incomes?

>> So, I'm not currently working. Um well,

I'm a stay-at-home mom. He makes net

140,000 a year.

>> Okay. And is is he feeling this weight?

We know you are. Is he feeling this?

I don't think he's feeling it as much as

uh he's definitely not feeling it as much as I am, but I laid it all in front of him basically to show him like how like everything on paper >> and um he kind of got it I think but

this was back in November and at the time he had agreed he loves Clara and Suzle and um I don't I hate them but uh

he thinks that it's fine to pay the due

the paying four things um because no

interest or whatever. So um he agreed in

November not to spend on those for

Christmas gifts and I thought that we were on the same page. He had agreed and come to find out he actually did use claret and suzle and he actually just finished paying off the last payment this past week but we almost weren't able to make our car payment. we had to

um try to get scrged around for cash to

pay for our car payment. >> So, this was very recent and and I I want to get Jade involved here, but I'm just kind of gathering some more information here.

>> What was his What were the comments?

What has the conversation been? We know what happened November. Now, here we are just the other day scrambling around for quarters, if you will, to make a car payment. What was the conversation then?

>> Um He's it's almost like he doesn't really

want to have the conversation like he it's almost like he's digging his head in the sand. He doesn't want to face the consequences. >> Okay. >> And a little backstory. Um he is a recovering alcoholic. >> Okay. >> Um and I I really truly believe that the spending it's because >> yeah, >> it's what's based >> it's a replacement >> that changes the uh equation. Um Jade, I

know you've got thoughts. So, I want you to weigh in here for her.

>> Well, I mean, definitely the reveal of the past alcoholism plays a big role in this. I wonder would he be open? Have

you said that to him that you're this is your fear and this is how you're perceiving this? >> I have said it to him. We actually are in marriage counseling. We're in individual counseling. >> Great. Okay, good. >> Which thankfully is covered by our insurance. We have He has very good insurance with his job and we are in marriage counseling. But so far it

we're working on addressing it, but it's like >> slowgoing. >> It's not getting anywhere. It's getting Yeah, it's very slowgoing.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, we can talk about numbers, but this really is just beyond a numbers equation. I mean, just really quickly, I can tell you >> uh your mortgage is 35% of your take-home pay, it seems like, which is already a little high.

I mean, it's nothing to like freak out over, but when you add 715 bucks a month of credit card debt, yeah, you're going to feel it.

um, it's going to be a problem. Now, I don't know if you've suggested this in in counseling. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. If I were in your shoes, what I would bring to my counselor is this.

I would [snorts] say I believe um clearly my husband has struggled with addiction. I think that he has found a way to not use alcohol anymore, but I feel like it's shifted to spending.

>> Do I had a question about that anyway? It's a very good point. Do you handle the finances or does he? So, interesting

you say that. I have been asking to do

the budgeting and everything as a partnership together. So far, he has not really wanted to do it. He just wants me to do it. But at the same time, >> I think that's good. >> He just recently he just recently put

his direct deposit in to the joint account. Up till now, literally last week, >> um it hasn't been. So, he finally put in a joint account and he he's kind of like washed his hands of it. He's like doesn't want any He left it all to me.

>> That is great news. Now, I want to jump in really quick because our time is limited. Practically speaking, do you both have car payments or is it just one? I thought I heard car payment.

>> It's just it's just his. Yeah, mine is paid off. >> Okay. Cuz I'm wondering what you can start to do since he's taking the hands off.

So, we need to look at selling that car. That's going to be a tough conversation. But I'm looking at what are some quick things that I get it. I get it.

That's why I acknowledged may not be the right one to go after right now. But with you now taking over the finances, what can you do? Can you cancel the credit cards? If your name's on them, you cancel the credit cards today.

Let's make this a real pain for him. Uh Jade, I want to bring you back into that. You got about a minute. What would you practically do if you were her?

>> I would I would make it more formal. I love that he shifted it that way, but I would almost, like I said, with your counselor, decide the best way to do this. He doesn't need access to the money on his own. He just doesn't because he's proven that he can't control spending.

And that is an addiction.

Especially, it looks like it in his case. And so, I would take a little tougher stance on that and say, "Okay, I when you say I'm in charge of the money, that means I'm going to distribute in the way that I'm going to distribute it, which this is only for a season until you can get well again, and then we'll be really 50/50 on this again." And I would take a pretty strong stance on that because your family uh their safety is at stake and so is yours.

[music]

[music]

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Edwin is up next in Minneapolis. Edwin,

how can we help?

Hey guys. Hey. Uh, thanks for taking my call. Um, I am in the middle of maybe

deciding to make a huge career change.

As in, I currently am self-employed on

my family dairy farm. I own all the cows

and rent the land, but I'm not sure if that's where I'm supposed to be. and

I am looking to maybe go do a uh change

of career to firefighting out west or

something along that line.

>> Okay, I'm going to step in here, Edwin, and I'm going to take a guess. Tell me if I'm wrong that you absolutely know

deep down that you're not supposed to be running the dairy farm. True or false?

Yeah, I don't I can't answer that specifically.

>> Why? >> I do I do I do love the animals and

it is maybe something to do with the fact that I'm the youngest and I sort of felt that I was supposed to take it.

>> But, >> okay, let me reward it a different way.

[laughter] >> Okay, let's say that might happen. Let's say that right now in my ear.

Kelly, who's producing our show today, she says, "Hey, Ken, we just got a call from this uh fire department out west, and they need someone like Edwin. They got a great job for him right now." Edwin, how do you react to that emotionally?

>> Uh, well, I couldn't take it right now.

I I >> I didn't ask you that, Edwin. You got it. Hold on a second. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. >> I would want to take it. >> Okay. What would your heart do?

I'm pretty excited. >> Okay, it's a simple question. I understand we have realities, but this is why you called the show today and so

so Okay, so let's keep playing this out.

Your heart would be going crazy.

>> But you'd have to unwind some things on the dairy farm. True or false?

>> Right. I would have to figure out a way to keep it going or make sure that it's not just going to fall apart. >> How would you do that? Keep it high level. Don't get in the weeds. What would you have to accomplish for that to be the fact?

>> Find somebody to run it or create a partnership with my brothers that are still in the area, but they would have to sacrifice to do that as well. And then all of a sudden it becomes about Edwin and I'm not sure that I like doing that to my family. >> Okay. Is this entire business on your

shoulders? Did somebody tell you that

>> it owns the land? I am in charge of

everything, running it. I own the cows.

Like, I'm in charge of the incomes, expenses, everything is on my shoulders.

>> Okay. But that's not your dad's business. Your dad owns the land. The land is valuable whether there's milk cows on there or not. True or false?

>> Yep. >> Okay. True. >> So, if you shut the thing down, okay, this is horrible, but it's going to make my point. If you get hit by a bus today,

>> dad's land, >> Dad doesn't lose a nickel on the land.

True or false?

Oh, that would be true. >> So, whose business is the dairy business?

>> The dairy business is mine 100%.

>> And Edwin doesn't want to be in the dairy business, but you've calculated this thing and you've you've tied your

responses to the fact that if you go chase your dream and do what you really want to do and fight fires out west that you're somehow letting the family down.

But best I can tell by your words, Jade, if I missed something. >> I don't think so. >> That this is actually your business to decide what you want to do with. True or false? >> True.

>> So, it feels like Edward >> would uh would [laughter] definitely cut my cut me off probably from my family as

far as my dad my dad would not be happy.

My dad would not be happy. He spent his whole life building this thing up.

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You just told us that the dairy business is yours. >> He just has the land. He's just been offering the land.

>> Yeah. I mean, like, he he literally sold

me the cows and like nobody else on the

family is technically at home right now.

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. >> And he's Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Edwin, stop. You paid your dad a

fair price for the cows.

>> I did. Yeah, >> he didn't give them to you.

>> No, he didn't. I I got to tell you, I'm not sure that you're correct. I think you're scared to death to leave your family and you've concocted some drama that may not be true. Is that possible?

>> That that is possible. >> Well, I'm going to tell you, >> I'm working with my brothers on this, but >> Well, what do they say about all this?

>> Well, they're both on the fence of you should go, and then there's some that say you should stay home. And >> all right, I think the time has come on this call. You got >> All right, Edwin. I think the time has come on this call >> to where you need to hear a different voice. >> And my kids, I could tell them everything, the gospel truth, great wisdom, and they'd not listen to me. And a coach or a teacher tells them, and they listen. So, I'm checking out because I've already walked you through.

I didn't even tell you anything. I walked you into a corner. You're terrified. [laughter] You're terrified. And you're letting your fear all of a sudden become ration uh the rationale for you to not leave.

I'm going to bring Jade in who's been listening the entire time. She's the voice you need to hear. Jade, I I give you the balance of my time.

>> I really think that you are well. Yeah, Ken Ken has nailed it. I'm only going to reiterate what he said. I think you're well within the bounds to to to pursue

firefighting. >> I think it is your business. Therefore, you get to decide what happens with it.

It sounds like you know what that would look like or what that could look like.

And it's okay. I I also if you are

correct in what you think might happen as far as the reactions of your family, they get to react and you can't control what their reaction is. And it's not your job to control what their reaction may or may not be. You can speculate about it, but you can't control it. And you certainly can't let someone else's

reaction of what they think you should

be doing with your life stop you.

>> You can't cry over spilled milk.

>> Very true. >> Okay. Yeah, that's right. You can't do that. >> I mean, I've been sitting there. I mean, what are we doing here? Uh, I think mom and dad will be proud. I think the fact that your brothers told you to do it, and and here's the other side of this, Edwin, and we've said this a million times on this show. If you don't do this, >> I know. I've heard it. >> Okay. Well, then you know what I'm about to say. If you don't do this for the

reasons that you've given us, you're going to end up resenting people >> that you care so deeply about >> that. You by the way just made an assumption about >> or what >> I will regret myself for not taking a leave. >> Well I went ahead of that the resentment becomes becomes of the regret. So regret

hits us first and then we start looking for places to put the blame on >> and we put the blame on the family members who actually never had the power as Jade so beautifully said. So my point is I jumped ahead. Resentment comes after regret.

>> Yeah that's very true. Listen, man. Eat more chicken. Sell them dairy cows.

[laughter] >> Let's go. I got no puns left. That's all I got. I only had two, [laughter] >> but I think you got to do it, Edwin. And I'm as serious as I can be for a moment.

You're a young man who has a who has a feeling in your heart. The reason I started off this call, and Jay's heard me do this 100,000 times, and I do it privately, too. The test is always the heart test. You cannot put enough value

on how your heart and your body feel.

And if anybody's ever felt it, the call to something or a draw to something, it is undeniable. Is it not Jade?

>> It's you can't you can't stop it. You cannot stop it. >> So what say you what say you is who

cares if your dad has a cow over you selling this business? [laughter] That's it. >> You You got to move on. >> Oh yeah. Look what you did. See, I had nothing left and you came [laughter] in over the top.

>> The puns are flying. >> The puns are flying >> because the truth is so clear. It's time to move forward. And by the way, this is your life.

>> Okay. It's your life. You got to make the calls for your life, man. And and boy, you're going to go out there and you're going to do some great work out west.

So, >> I hear the excitement already in his voice. >> I too. I feel like you feel a little lighter, right? [laughter] >> Yeah.

No, it's definitely. Listen, if you want to keep one of the cows, keep one of the cows. I think it'd be so cool to have a pet dairy cow. They're great looking animals.

>> Keep the ones with the bangs, the bangs in their face. They're >> They were always my favorite cows at the fair. >> Oh, yeah. They're sweet.

>> The dairy cows. >> And here you are making a sandwich [music] out of it.

[laughter]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside the phone number is88255225.8825-5225.

Toby's up next in Phoenix, Arizona.

Toby, how can we help?

>> Well, I have um I've built up some debt.

I'm 62 years old and about ready to claim social security, but um I have about $79,000 in debt. And I got a

letter from the consolidating to consolidate it by stopping your credit cards.

And so that was the first question. I've I've kind of listened over and look and looked at the show. It doesn't you know

like that's a bad idea from what I hear you guys saying or is it a bad idea or I mean and I own three houses.

>> Okay. Tell us about one of those houses.

>> I'm going to go short answer likely yes.

I I [laughter] short answer yes. Debt consolidation it is not the answer to this situation. It rarely I would never suggest it as the answer. The reason is what it's doing is something you could do, which is not pay your debts, pull the money, and then when they're ready to settle, now you can make a settlement. That's all they're doing, and they're just doing with with fees attached. So, you don't need help doing that. Um, tell us about the three houses because your your solution is likely there.

>> Well, I the thing is I have renters and I rented for forever and to sell one of

the houses, I'd have to be putting a family out. >> That's true. and they really aren't in that position. And I've I so far I haven't been able to do it and and and I have problems there just cuz they they have five kids. >> Are your prices competitive or are you giving them some sort of a deal that they wouldn't be able to get elsewhere?

>> I I I'm probably very I'm very low on on

that house that I would sell the other ones. >> Let's go to the other two. We'll set let's set that one aside. We appreciate your heart. What about the other two houses? Give us the numbers.

>> Um, one house rents for $1350.

Um, it would sell for 170,000.

>> How much would you make on that?

>> Uh, oh, I don't owe anything on the houses. >> Okay. So, it's all it's all profit.

>> All right. That's house number two. Let's go to house number three.

>> Um, house number three is a it's basically a rental apartment, but it

it's a home. Um, but it's not very big.

How much is it worth if you sold it today? How much would you pocket?

>> It's on my property on my house where

[snorts] my own house. >> Okay. >> So, I I couldn't sell that part of it.

You know what I'm saying? It's just a spare house. >> Okay. So, and you just happened to figure out a way. >> And just just for the heck of it, what is the house that the family of five or the family of seven with five kids, how much is that house worth?

um down down the street in one um one

other house went for 170.

>> Okay. So, this is this is a no-brainer to me. Ken, >> can I ask a question before you because I know what you're going to do. I just am curious for a guy who's got two cash

houses.

Why do you have $79,000 in debt?

>> I spent too much.

>> But you paid off these other houses, right? Well, I paid off the other houses a while ago. Basically, I paid cash. I I

turned in my 40 or my my retirement when

it dropped so much in 2008. I got upset

that they took all that money. I lost a lot. And so, I took the rest of it, paid the fees, and bought these houses.

>> Oh gosh. So, you have nothing in a 401k?

>> Oh, I have nothing. No.

>> Understood. So, your [laughter] income is these houses. your income will be uh

tell then then go back and tell me again what's the rent from house number one with the family of five. What what's your rent on that? What do you take?

>> 11,100.

>> And and what goes away in in in fees and upkeep? What what do you actually pocket as profit from that house?

>> Um there's not much fees and haven't

been much fees and upkeep over the last couple years. Well, I mean, certainly you take >> Certainly you take money out in case the AC goes out or in case it needs a repair.

>> Uh, I'm a plumber.

>> Okay. >> So, I kind of fix things.

>> I own a pl a plumbing unit.

>> For round numbers, for round numbers, I'll use the 1100, but I want to encourage you to know what the numbers are less upkeep because that's going to give you a clearer picture of how well this is doing. Um, tell me tell me the rent on number three, the one that's on your property.

>> Uh, a,000.

>> A,000. So, so far we've got 2100. And

what's it take? Are you going to be drawing? You said you're going to draw social security here soon. What will that be? >> Yes. Um, 2,000.

>> 2,000. Do you think you can hold on until later so you can get a higher amount?

>> Um, no. I I've already signed up for it and I don't know

some health problems. I'm not sure. I want to wait. >> Are you currently employed? >> Okay. [snorts] >> I work for myself. I own a plumbing business. >> Okay, great. >> Locally. >> What do you pay yourself out of the plumbing business?

>> Um I I I basically don't know. I pay the I

pay for the plumbing parts and the plumbing bills and then I pay my taxes at the end of the year. >> Are you busy straight checking? Are you busy? >> Um, I work as I work I work as much as I want every day. Okay. >> I don't push it as hard as I used to work 8 to 10 hours a day.

>> Well, you got no you got no retirement.

You got no retirement. So, you need to sell at least one of these houses and clear up the debt and then Jade walk you through. You've got to start reinvesting in now. >> Yeah. So, I mean, here's the thing. We need real numbers. I have a feeling obviously you don't have a budget. What I'm gathering is you're bringing in somewhere around 4,000 to 4,100 a month plus whatever plumbing you do. We don't know what that amount is. Um the equation we need is how much does it cost for you to run your lifestyle minus

the debt cuz we're going to pay the debt off. So we need to find out how much does it take to keep the lights on, keep the water going, keep food on the table, keep the vehicles running. Um if it's 4,100, you're okay and and you can make

this work. Uh what I would suggest is just what Ken said. We're going to sell house number two and we're going to take the, you know, 79 of the 100,000 and

we're going to pay off the debt and then you're going to take 90,000 and I would say keep 3 to 6 months of expenses out. Keep that in a high yield savings account and then the rest you're going to plop it in some nice mutual funds. And if you if you can after this call uh go to ramseolutions.com uh/smartvevestor I believe is what it is. And I I want you to get with a Smart Investor Pro because investing some of this money is going to be helpful for you.

It's not going to be the break free point for you.

I think at this point for you keeping these paid for um uh real estate is

going to help you live. Like you can't afford to sell these just yet. So keeping the rent on them is probably going to be a big a good move for you.

And if you get to the point where you can no longer be a landlord, you're selling those and you're popping those into a 401k as I'm sorry, into a Roth IRA as well.

>> Really? So, you don't think you should sell one to clear the 79?

>> If he sells it, he doesn't have any income.

>> I told him to No, he's got No, no, no. I told him to sell number two. >> Okay, good. Oh, okay. >> I told him to sell I'm talking about the other two. The one that's on his property. He can't sell that one anyway.

>> I agree. But I would tell you the one with a family of seven with five kids, appreciate your heart, >> but they need to at least be paying market rent.

>> That's true. And then at the same time, if you need to unload that >> to take care of yourself, you can give them plenty of advanced notice to where you're not kicking them out.

>> That's true. That's true. >> You can't just be the, you know, whatever you've fashioned yourself to be this hero here. Um, it doesn't make you a bad guy. there's a way to go about it in a way that does not, you know, make life for them really uncomfortable and stressful. But that's something to be thinking about. And I agree, you need to sit with a Smart Ver Pro tomorrow and begin to plot out your future.

[music]

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[music]

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>> All righty. Today's question comes from Ashley in South Dakota. She says, "Jade,

Jade mentioned on a recent show that her husband saves his personal fund money out of their budget to make larger purchases. What are the logistics of that? How and where is allocated money

set aside and tracked so he knows how much he has in that fund?"

>> Oh, I love this spent each month. Okay.

>> And I know I know how he does this.

>> You do. You might need to You might could take this part, Kim. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. I I would just go out on the limb and just say this is what Sam and I do. Okay, this is how it goes in the Warshaw household, you know. Don't at

me. Okay, so on the budget, we have a

certain amount of money. Um, fun money.

One line is for Jade and one line is for Sam. It's the same amount for each of us. It's there every single month. And it used to be for the longest if you didn't use it, you'd lose it.

It's like if you don't use it, it's going to roll into savings. It's going to roll. It's going to go somewhere. So, you may I always use mine, but Sam was really bad about using it.

And so, he finally was like, I'm going to pull this money out and just stack it up because he's the type >> a he has expensive taste, Ken Coleman. I know. And it's not, believe me, >> it likes things that one month of fun money can't buy.

>> And that's fine. So, he stacks it up.

I'll be honest with you. I don't know where he puts it. >> You don't? >> It's somewhere in the house.

>> I totally know where he does. >> Where is it? >> It's in a drawer. It's in the sock drawer, >> I think.

So, >> okay. >> Don't quote me on the socks, >> but uh he and I were hanging out recently. I think this may have this came up on the show. He pulled off a great surprise for the fan.

He did. And I don't want to reveal stuff I'm not allowed to reveal, but he and I were talking about it. I knew about it ahead of time. And he told me, he was like, "This is this is really an expensive surprise." And I said, "Dude, you're making memories." And he did.

>> And but it was because he stacks it.

>> Yeah. >> In that drawer, wherever the drawer is.

And then he was like, "Oh, >> it's months and months, >> months and months." Sam has always been a squirrel since I've met him. He He stacks cash. That is what he does. I'm the spender. Well, anyway, uh yeah, he stacks it up. I'm sure as far as the question, how does he know how much he has? I think he's just counting it. Like I think >> he revisits it every once in a while.

>> Uhhuh. And >> I bet you he counts it when he adds to it. >> Yeah, he probably does. >> He has a ballpark idea.

Yeah, he he probably keeps a ballpark idea in his head and when he feels like he's getting close, he probably counts it. Now, I Jade could care less. I'm telling you right now, >> I don't know how much money he has over there. I don't care if I went home today and said, "I want to know how much money you have.

Show me where it is." He would do all of those things. So, it's not even a question. Um, >> and I know like he was saving up. He wants to buy a golf cart.

He was saving up to do that. Yeah. He saved up and bought the He and he can buy whatever he wants. He saved up and bought a real life replica Ninja Turtle suit from the the movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the '90s.

>> A lot. >> Yeah.

>> Legit >> that an actor would have worn on the movie. >> Yeah. It's on display in his office.

>> It's unbelievable. >> It's pretty crazy. >> But what was great is like, and this is a great story because he said to me the night, he goes, "Do you think this is insane?" And he told me how much the thing was going to cost. And I go, "Do you have the cash sitting in your drawer?" He goes, "Yeah." and then some.

I was like, "What are we talking about?

>> This is a done deal." >> Because it was months and months of a line item that stacked up and then it

was also something that made memories. I I literally was like, "What are we talking about? You have to do it." >> Yes. Great. >> And he did. So anyway, that's how he does it. >> That's how he does it. >> It's not real scientific. >> And I think uh I think it is on par with

how fun money should be spent. Like who says it has to be all it's not a FSA.

It's >> your personalities are different. So, if we mean it and we put it in the budget, then it's yours to do and you spend yours every month. >> I uh I I I have a little bit saved.

>> All right. Let me ask a question, and you can you can uh choose not to answer, but I think America would like to know.

>> Give us an example or two of something you have recently bought with your fund money. >> Oh boy. Uh >> whether whether you saved or you went all in on something very small and reasonable, >> I don't remember the last thing I bought. It was probably some clothing or shoe item. Like it's usually clothes or clothes or shoes. [laughter] Okay. Well, there it is. >> But I'm about to buy a hair dryer. It's $500 and I saving up for it. Yeah. It's called the Rev Air and it's amazing.

>> Is this one that you sit under the 1970s? >> No. It works the opposite. It works like a vacuum. So, it sucks your hair in and

then it you don't like there's no tension. It sucks your hair into the tube. Sorry, what I'm doing with my hands. >> It dries inside. >> Yeah. And then it comes out dry and straight. And you can set it on settings. So if you have your curly hair, it keeps your hair curly. If you have straight, it straightens it out. >> Does it Does the owner's manual recommend that you do that with another adult present? No. Your emergency contact. It sounds a little risky to me.

The way you described sucking in your hair >> and what happens if it like takes your ear off? >> It won't. It's it's it's gentle. It's gentle. But that's what I'm saving my fun money for. So the point here is guys, >> you need you need you need fun money on

your budget number one if you're beyond baby step two and three and it's okay to

save it up. >> Yeah, >> I think so. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Would you do you support this message? >> Oh, 100%. And I I support the fact that you're taking on a somewhat physically risky haird dryer. >> Yes, I promise it's all right. >> I I'm a little concerned about it, but as long as again Sam is around, >> he's around. He'll be okay. He can help out [laughter] if something goes ary.

Melissa is up next in Chicago. Melissa, how can we help?

>> Hi, I have a question about a student loan debt, but it is not my student loan. Um, my daughter is 27 and she's

been graduated for a few years now, and I know her loans are in forbadance.

And while she was growing up, I was a single mom. I'm still single, but I had one income and I wasn't able to help her save a lot for college. So, I'm in a better position now, and I really want to come up with a plan to help her pay these off, but make it motivating for her to do so. So financially, you know,

her being an adult, me being a mom, like where should I go with that? Like offering her money or I just don't know how to quite make her cuz she hasn't been paying on them because she's a teacher and she's in the low income category right now. So she's kind of been burying her head in the sand and I've been listening to you for like four months now and student loans, student loans. And I feel like I skipped over that baby step because I wasn't able to do it >> at the time and now I can help a little bit.

>> Well, I love that you're >> She hasn't asked for any help, might I add. She's never asked for any help on them. >> I mean, I love the heart that you would even want to help. I think that's very sweet and and very kind. My first order of business it would be to determine if you're in a position to help. So, how old are you? >> 47. [clears throat] >> Okay. And tell us about your financial snapshot. Do you have any debt?

>> I have no debt. >> No debt. My home. >> Great. and emergency fund saved up

>> six months. >> Love that for you. And you're actively investing the 15%.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And so I mean >> I'm going to jump in real quick because we only have about 30 or 40 seconds. The question I have is is how much income above and beyond your expenses do you have flexibility with every month?

>> Uh I have probably 1500.

>> Good. >> Flexible. And that's what you would spend or what would you give her? >> I travel a lot. I travel a lot. So, >> hey, no shame in your game. [laughter] So, tell Jade what are you thinking?

What? Tell Jade what you think you're going to contribute. What what you've thought about. >> I was thinking I say, "Hey, let's get going. Whatever you put down, I will

match 50%. I want you to have some skin in the game, but you need to start." She's got a little >> I like the matching thing because it incentivizes her to make payments as well. My only caveat on this is you must

make the payment directly to the debt.

We're not going to just give her the money. >> Okay. Okay. So, get a hold of all of her information to do that directly.

>> Yep. And she makes the payment first and you make the payment second. >> Oo. >> Okay. >> That way that way it's it's on the up and up. >> That's a pro tip there. I like that.

That's pro tip. >> That is that's [laughter] that's why she's in that chair there. I love that.

Hey, Melissa, you're a good mom. Thanks for calling. Good. >> I think Jade gave you some great advice.

I would walk that out to a tea. [music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is.

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[music]

All right, let's go to Lisa in Las Vegas. Lisa, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call today.

>> You bet. What's going on? >> So, I have a So, I have a question. I've been This is I've been remarried. This is my second marriage. Same for him.

We've been married 4 years. And he still refuses to combine finances no matter what comes at us. Um, he was recently laid off after being at a company for 25 years, um, about four months ago. And

after that, he still refuses to combine finances. So, I don't know. My question is how do I move forward despite that decision?

>> So, first things first, if he's not making an income, how is he living if he refuses to combine finances?

>> Um, he's getting unemployment um in

recently. I did not know he was gambling. Um, like >> Well, I didn't know this till he um won 50,000 like 30 days ago.

>> Uh-huh. >> So, he's living off of that. [snorts] What kind of gambling are we talking about? >> Um, he bets I guess online for the football game. >> Sports betting, man, that's a problem.

>> Okay, that makes this make more sense.

When you were first talking, um, Lisa, I had the thought I thought people who don't want transparency are generally trying to hide something. Not always, but a lot of times that's especially if they're like adamant about it, >> then they gaslight you and say, "Well, I don't trust you." >> Yeah. Okay. So, this is a big deal. Any type of um I I don't know if it's an

addiction. I mean, gambling in and of itself, you know, [snorts] it's it's it can be fine to place a bet on something obviously, but it seems it

seems like there could be more than meets the eye to his gambling simply because it's been used as a front to keep you out of his business financially. [gasps] So you >> may be say again >> I feel like he's not I feel like he's not gambling like thousands and thousands got lucky this time.

>> Uh based on the income that he makes and he still pays all the bills. So like about a year ago I was like you know what if you're not going to save I'm done paying any bills. >> How do you know he's not taking out debt?

>> I check his credit score.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So there is some transparency.

Yeah.

>> Okay. Um, what do you think? You know him better than Ken and I. What do you think is the reason that he doesn't want to combine finances? Is it he got burned in his previous marriage?

>> Not necessarily. I don't think um I don't think so. It just didn't work out.

Um he just says he doesn't trust me. And I just want to give you like a little glimpse of what my financial situation looks like. When I came into marriage, um I had just finished building a triplex and since getting married, we I've paid it off since it was pre-marriage. So, I get income off of that.

I work two jobs just because I I like it, not because I have to. So, it's not like >> You're a hard worker. Is there anything relationally that would give him reason not to?

If there is, it's just something that he has to work through. Not necessarily something I've given him to hold it against me. >> But do you know of anything that could be there? Even if it's his to work through, do you know of what that could be?

And again, you don't have to say it specifically, but >> how? >> Not really. I mean, I haven't done anything, you know, to make him feel insecure that I'm going to steal all the money.

What is the reason that you don't trust me? What What is it? What does he tell you?

>> Um because I wouldn't combine finances in the beginning. Um but I had no money in the beginning. So there was really nothing to combine.

>> Got it. >> So that was that leads me to did you

guys discuss this at all before you got married? >> So we did and we did open a checking account in the beginning to combine our finances. Um, but again, I wasn't putting any money in it because I had no money when we met. >> But he wanted to combine he wanted to combine finances when you got married.

>> Yeah, he was open to it. But little by little he started um putting his trick u his work money into another account and little by little like that communal account stopped being used. So, it's kind of like we went back. But every time I downloaded the apps, >> I want to go back to that because I feel like I heard a couple of different things.

First you said he doesn't trust me because in the beginning he wanted to combine finances and I didn't. Then it changed to well I would have but I didn't have any money. Then it changed to well he stopped putting money in the account. Right?

So already that story shifting has me >> has a question mark over my head over over what's really going on? How are you guys really talking about money? It how is he perceiving what you're saying in your actions? cuz I I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time >> perceiving it myself.

>> Agree.

the same time. You guys there you're like ships in the night a little bit.

There's some stuff going on. You both come from previous marriages. you you got to own it and go, we aren't on the same page and if we don't get on the same page, this is gonna fall apart. So, now's a good time. Doesn't sound like things are completely on fire, but um

yeah, you guys just you just don't sound like you're doing marriage the way that it's supposed to be done. And that's just like, hey, we're actually trying.

Doesn't mean we're perfect, but we're trying to be on the same page. And I just don't feel like that's happening. and and I think you need an impartial professional to help you get there.

>> Yeah, I would agree with that. I don't think that this is um a numbers or really a money conversation, per se.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I And and again, I think there's a bigger issue here and I put you on hold because I want Jay to teach to this.

>> This is a good example of why we talk about combining incomes when you get married. It it just So, let's go back. This is it's almost like a refresher. Why do we teach it and and

how does this call kind of play it out to where we go this is the potential pitfalls even though this is not I don't think a crisis yet. >> Yeah. So I mean there's the relational benefit then there's the actual financial benefit, right? Financially it makes sense. Two incomes are better than one. You know two heads are better than one. You go further faster together, right? That's just kind of like the the headline version of that. I don't think anybody would really argue with that.

Now, of course, much of those um isms

matter with who you married, right? You don't if you married a ball and chain, you ain't going anywhere fast, right?

So, [laughter] there's part I understand that. I want to know I want you to know I know that. Um so, marrying the right person obviously matters to that equation. Uh then there's the relational side, which is why marrying the right person matters. The relational side guys is when you can combine finances that means that there's a level of trust and a level of transparency in marriage that

is needed to function properly. You can't function properly in marriage with

someone you don't trust. You can't function properly in marriage with someone you wouldn't be willing to give your passcode to that you wouldn't be willing to let them see all of your purchases. Because then you have to ask yourself what why am I hiding this? Why

am I hiding this specifically from them?

Why do they feel the need to hide from me? There it unlocks so many questions

um within the the relationship, which can be a good thing in this case because now we're starting to head on the path of >> because trust is a two-way street, >> right? >> And I love how you're pointing this out because I could be sitting in this situation going, "Okay, I don't trust you." And then if we dive into it with a therapist, you go, "Well, what are the reasons you don't trust?" And it's not something they've actually done. is something that has been done to you.

>> Possibly. It could be. >> Possibly. Yes.

>> It's not always that clean. >> But can we also talk about and I want to say this with the caveat. I've only been married one time. Sam Warshaw is my only husband.

But I do find >> Well, except for the Sam being my Stacy's my [laughter] wife. Yeah. >> Good clarity. I do find that on this show, we do find this a lot in second marriages.

Yeah. And it's almost like there's it's almost like there's a framework that we have for first marriages, but we don't carry that framework in, which is the all-in I'm in. I'm with this person.

of you and we are becoming one flesh that really is what marriage is about at the core >> I heard John Legend in the background around when you were saying all of me. I

can't do John Legend. Not even going to try. I was ready for it. >> No, it's terrible. I [music] would just butcher it. But great advice and that's

why we teach it. That's as plain of an explanation as you're going to get.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music]

[music] All right, our scripture of the day comes from John 3 27. John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven." And our

quote from Ronald Reagan, "The American dream is not that every that every man must be level with every other man. The American dream is that every man must be free to become whatever God intends he should become." All right, our next person up is Zach in

Columbus, Ohio. Zack, how can we help?

>> Hi, how you doing? >> Good. How are you, sir? >> Longtime follower. Oh, pretty good. um longtime follower of the baby steps. Um I have purchased my dream car. I've owned it for about four years now, >> which is what I'm >> uh so it's a 2017 Dodge Challenger PA

edition >> with a manual transmission.

>> Okay. >> Um it's got only 16,000 miles on it. I bought it with 13,000. So I put about 3,000 four years.

>> Um treated as a, you know, Sunday driver type thing only in the summer. Um, it's the same year that my son was born, so kind of sentimental to me. >> Okay. >> Um, I'm on baby step four, five, and six, and I hate debt. I've gone through baby step two twice now. Um, first time

to pay off $140,000. Second time was $113,000.

Um, so all I'm left on is my mortgage and it's driving me crazy.

>> How much? >> So I took $144,000.

I just made a payment of 7,500 on Monday

from 152 down to that.

>> What is your anticipated payoff? Because I know you're thinking about it.

>> Uh 36 months.

>> Wow. Okay. Just around the corner.

>> So, what's your question?

>> Well, um you know, I bought this car with the intention of keeping it forever. I wanted my grandkids one day to find it in the barn type thing.

>> Okay. Um, but you know, I'm I'm

contemplating, you know, if I sold this car, I could pay off 21% of my remaining mortgage tomorrow.

>> What's that number? >> Um, so I could sell the car wholesale 31

and I could sell tomorrow. If I sold it retail uh to another buyer, probably could get about 35 for it, >> I got to tell you. >> So, >> I mean, if you want to sell it, you can.

I wouldn't.

>> Okay. You got you got two no sales here.

>> I mean, you sat you you you spent way more time explaining the car >> than the problem, which means you love the car. And then don't don't tell us it's on your child's birthday and all these other things and >> you want them to find it in the barn one day. >> Come on. >> I mean, here's the deal.

>> Are you financially responsible? Yes or no? >> Yes, sir. >> Are you on track to pay that house off in 36 months?

>> Yes, sir.

What are we doing here? >> Yeah. >> Like, here's the thing. You sell that car. Let's just play this out.

>> Let's fast forward. You sell the car and

let's say you uh split the difference.

You get 30,000 for it. Okay. And you put

that on the mortgage. How much time is that going to shave off the 36 months?

>> Eight months. >> Eight months. >> Oh, so not worth it.

>> Now, what do you think?

>> Yeah. And and that's where I'm stuck is is No, you're not. >> Then I get into thinking of, you know, if I do keep it forever, um, you know, just the brakes alone is $5,000 on this car. >> Okay. But let's >> I I want to I'm going to fight for this for a second because we're talking about

8 months or a a legacy. Cuz when you

said, "I want them to find it in the barn." >> Yeah. >> We're talking about that is a long expansive time. So, when you're really saying it's a it's it's a it's a question of time here. Which time matters more?

The eight months that it's going to shave off my debt-free journey or the years and years that I'm going to drive this car in the summertime with my kids, uh the the the thing that I hope to leave to them, right? And don't get me wrong, you're going to do what you want to do, and no one's going to be mad at you.

value of what you what you were intending to do.

>> Zach, I don't think you think you deserve it.

>> Yeah. And that that's one of the things with this car. It was uh you know, I graduated high school with a 1.8 GPA.

I've worked my way up from the ground up. Didn't go to college, got married at 19. Uh put my wife through college.

finally seemed to have made it and and bought my dream car that I never thought I could have and want to pass down to my kids and they love it. Looks like a Hot Wheels car to them. Um but but at the

same time, the security >> of a paid for house, no debt and but

you've already you're already on track for that. And if you really needed the money for that car, you could sell it tomorrow. It's an actual in this case, it is a bit of an asset.

>> Yes or no? >> Okay. Yes, sir.

>> Okay. So, I don't think you think you're good enough. You know how I know it? You said you said 1.8 GPA. You threw that

out there and it's a little bit of a badge of honor, but it still's got some shame attached to it. Yes or no?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, you don't think that you're good enough for that car and you think you're being irresponsible by having that car? You threw out the $5,000 brakes. Well, two responses to that.

Now, I'm going to fight for it. Yeah.

>> Two responses. Number one, you're a guy who's paid off over six figures in debt twice.

That guy, yes, sir, >> can put away a little bit of money each month, right, for car repairs, and you're driving that thing so little it's going to take twice as long to repair those brakes as it would if you were driving it every day. True or false?

>> That's true. Yes, sir. >> Stop making excuses to buy in to this

narrative about yourself that's incorrect. We're talking to a guy who's very responsible. We're talking to a guy who loves his kids and only he happens to love a really cool car. And I'll bet you don't have many hobbies.

>> No, I work. I come home and push drive

the car and that's about it. >> Then don't sell the car. Don't sell the car. >> We've already ruled.

>> There's no more discussion here.

>> Don't, you know, >> gavel to the table.

>> You and I have had many discussions today, but this brings up another really good discussion um with money. The thing

there there's something about money that it does. It scratches the itch of us feeling like, okay, I've done the responsible thing. I've made up for the past. I have, right? And you're trying to set um success there for your family or whatever it may be for you. The hard thing with money and the thing that we have to remember is it is a moral like it's just a tool out there. However, I'm going to say it has a magnetism to it.

There's a there's a quality that it always moves the goalpost further and further and it takes us with it. And it's like the goalpost goes there and like a magnet we go with it and then it goes there and we go further and you have to fight really hard to go well wait a second before it was a really great win to get debtree and then we were fine with like okay we'll pay out the house d and then if you don't fight that it pulls the joy of you living your

life because it pulls the goalpost a little bit further and you're like h I got to do that now and oh I got to do and you're stealing your own joy from yourself because you're letting that magnet pull you further. And you have you just have to be careful. Don't give me I'm Ken. I'm all for success.

I'm all for I am a very um >> I love achieving. So I'm not taking that away from anybody, but you just have to be careful. >> Yeah, I agree. And again, you talk a lot about in your in your last book, the bestseller, the emotions of money.

we can't forget that those emotions are based on experiences >> in our lives around money. So, we didn't we didn't unpack this with Zach, but I'll guarantee you the same patterns where he talked about I was a 1.8 GPA. I

got married at 19. Here's what I heard.

I did things the untraditional way. I did things in a way that no one recommends. Everybody says go to college, so therefore he wouldn't have gotten married. Maybe he was playing out a narrative that said

>> he was proud of himself and rightfully so, >> but he did everything the hard way.

Yeah. And and not the way that you're supposed to, right?

>> And so then you also go, okay, so there's those emotions which I touched on, but what we don't know is what kind of background he had. What was the environment like growing up in his house around money? How did people view money?

Did his dad, did he hear his dad go, "We'll never own a nice car." And so is there a level of And I don't know. I'm I'm projecting, but that's where you talk a lot about about the emotions around money, and we've got to master those. >> That's right. Yeah. We know this money touches every area of life. And because of that, when we teach something like the baby steps or even a really simple thing of saying, "Hey, for a little while you're going to sacrifice short-term for a long-term gain, right?

You might tell somebody to sell the car.

I might tell somebody to, you know, stop getting your nails done." And it's never just that. It's how could you tell me uh

how could you tell me to sell my car? Don't you know that when I grew up, you know, we only had one car and I had to walk to school and I didn't have gloves cuz my Right. and it we spin out to whatever we remember. So, just remember that money is very emotional.

>> By the way, she goes into great detail in her best-selling [music] book, What No One Tells You About Money. Can get it wherever books are sold. And remember this, folks, [music] there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 152. Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money | November 27, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. So

excited to have you with us. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in.88255225

alongside the fabulous, the incomparable

Jade Warshaw. I am >> Thank you, my friend >> Ken Coleman. Just happy to be in her presence, folks. It's going to be good.

Fresh off of Orlando. We might talk a little bit about that. We'll see. Land Orlando, I can't speak now. And Chicago >> Shy Town. >> Uh couple live events. So much fun. We are feeling the juice from those two great crowds. Jessica is up in Arkansas.

Jessica, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good morning or good afternoon. I'm

sitting at just a tad bit under a million dollars in debt. um almost 200

of that is unsecured and we were

contemplating bankruptcy, but my faith

tells me that I should be paying all this and I know I should. Um and I'm just I guess I'm trying to see if there's a light at the end of the tunnel for us. >> There's always hope. >> Why don't you lay it out for us? Give us the whole 1 million in debt. What is

that? So 210 is unsecured personal loans. 83

um of that 210 is credit cards.

Um the house is 658.

>> Okay. >> And then there's two vehicles that um

there's two vehicles in there. One's almost paid off and then the other one is very very upside down.

>> Tell us the amounts. Uh the first and the second.

One is we owe 12,000 on it and the other

one is 59,000.

>> Oo. And how much do you know off the top of your head what that 59,0001 is worth?

>> Um 35 >> girlfriend. Okay. Um how much do you guys earn? It's you and your husband.

>> Yes. And he is in a job transition. Um

so we were making over 300. Now we're at

sitting at about 259 a year.

>> Okay, good. That's Listen, there's your light at the end of the tunnel right there. Is if you had told me that your shovel was 60 or 70,000, I'd be really

hurting with you. Um, but the good news is you have a really great shovel, uh, 259, and you said that's with or without

the job loss.

>> That's with the job loss. And his new job is going to be commission only. So, we haven't we don't know what that's going to look like yet. It could be amazing. >> I believe you make 259.

>> Um, we have some retirement funds in

there um from military and

>> disability. How much of that is the military? Like how much of that is your income and how much of that is like pension type stuff?

>> About half. >> Okay, good. That is really really really really really good news. Um, tell me about the 210,000. Was this a business loan? What What was that money for?

>> It was a little bit of everything, honestly. It was um some bad business

endeavors, me trying to be a serial entrepreneur. Okay. >> It was um some bad financial decisions

just in general. Um imposttor syndrome.

I took took a fantastic career

opportunity and I just kind of um

shopped my way through the imposttor syndrome until I got to therapy.

>> Okay. >> And uh so that was some bad financial decisions there, luxury shopping >> and then um I took over I took out two

personal loans to clear my husband's credit card debt um as well. So that's

what all that is. This is like classic mo money mo problems, right? This is you had a big income and so you could afford to make bigger mistakes, right? But really when we boil it down, Ken, this ratio-wise, it's the same call we always hear, right?

>> So that's the good news is, you know, you've got uh 260,000 in income right

now. It's going to go up exponentially.

And you got, you know, uh, I'm not counting the mortgage debt because when we're in baby step two, which is the step where you're paying off all the consumer debt, we really don't count the mortgage. So, can you tell me how much your monthly mortgage payment is so I can see what percentage of your life it is? >> 3938. >> Okay.

And so, that's going to be fine with what you're bringing home. So, that the mortgage is not the problem. And I just wanted to explain that to you. It's no more than 25% of your take-home.

So, that's not the issue. The problem is you feel overwhelmed because no matter how you slice it, if you if you tell somebody you have $300,000 of debt, that that's a lot, right? >> Yeah.

>> Yes. I actually did it probably about 20 years ago and I the only debt I carried up until three years ago was a mortgage and a car payment.

>> Um and I would usually pay the car payment, you know, double or whatever.

>> Yeah. >> Well, are you Okay, we get that. But let's talk about the now because your question is, is there a light at the end of the tunnel? The answer is yes, if you're willing to look for it. And so, are you done now? >> Are you done? Is this the last time you're ever going to do this?

>> Oh, for sure. >> Okay. >> I I can't do this again. >> Okay. So, um, in this situation, my take is I would try to get massive momentum, you know, and Jade can speak to this.

I'm going to give it back to her quickly because she and Sam paid off $500,000 in

debt. So, you got the perfect person to talk to today. But here's my only thing that I would say and I'll hand the baton back to you, Jade. I think they need a momentum >> play like a big one.

>> And so I would be attacking. I would try to get rid of the $59,000 car payment >> instantly. >> Like even if they go upside down, you can tell her how we do it, but I I I just think there needs to be a dramatic move. I don't know what your take is having done this yourself. >> No, I I agree uh with Ken 100%. you do

you need to do something that's going to shake you uh emotionally that's going to shake you financially that's going to almost like it's like the gun going off of the race, right? And I I agree with Ken. Um you guys need to pull together

and I mean with your income in a in a couple of short months, pull together that 24,000 that you're upside down on this vehicle and get out of it and you

know drive the $12,000 vehicle for a while. Figure out a plan to save up another you know couple thousand to get you a beater. And here's the thing. I'm gonna be 100% straight with you. You're

used to making a lot of money. When you get a beater, it's gonna mess with your ego big time because in your mind, you're going to go, "Wait a minute. I work too hard to be driving a car like this. Wait a minute.

Nobody at my work drives a car like this or nobody in my social circle." Right? Cuz you start hanging out with who you earn money with, right? And so, you're going to be the one and it is going to create questions and it's your choice whether you answer those questions. But I'm just letting you know right now, Jessica, that's going to happen.

And there's going to be an inongruency for a while with the how hard I'm working and how much money I'm earning versus the lifestyle I'm living. And I'm telling you that as a person who did that for quite a while. And that's going to be so good for your soul because that's what's going to cause you never to do this again. You're going to go, "Oh my gosh, I never want to feel that again." >> Seriously, I think it's right.

And you know, not trying to steal too much of your story, but I mean, Sam and I were hanging out last night, Jade T, and he reminded me, you guys had one car for a long time.

>> Yeah, but that was just cuz you adjusted to it. >> I did. >> But during the massive debt payoff, you guys were one car family. So, >> but you said it, Kim. We got used to it.

>> That's right. You you did fine.

>> You get used to anything, >> right? Right. You could be making multiple six figures and get used to whatever lifestyle you create. So >> yeah, I did. That's hilarious to me that you were here for a year before you got wheels. >> And even still, I was a little reluctant. I was like, we don't need it.

>> Listen now. Get me that get me that G Wagon. I'm ready, Ken. Come on.

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Tyler is up next in Knoxville, Tennessee. Tyler, how can we help?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. So, I'm currently 22 years old and I'm struggling with the fact that my parents are kind of financially abusing me. I've been following the Ramsay baby steps.

I'm currently reading the Total Money Makeover book and I got my refund from

school about in May and it was close to about $4,000. It was exactly $3,999.

And I used that money to pay off my clear debt, my car payment, and as well a little bit my credit card payment. And they weren't really happy about that.

They were just absolutely furious about me, saying that that was their money and

about how the hard work they did to put me out here and everything like that. And my head's just spinning about it and what to do. >> Hold on, hold on, hold on. The money was from was a tax refund for money that you did like W2 money.

>> No, it was a refund. School refund.

Correct. >> Yeah. But they paid Did they pay for the school? >> School refund. >> Or did you pay for it?

So they were helping me through financial aid. We took out a loan and as well um just through whatever else uh federal work study as well.

>> So was this let me let me clarify because the key word in student loans is refund and refund sometimes means you

took out a loan and the loan was too much for what school actually costs and so they gave you the money back in cash but it is still loaned money. Does that make sense? So, was this money that was still loaned money or was this actual cash that you had from doing work study and you were given that as payment? Clarify that for me. >> I believe it was a little both from the work study and from the loan.

>> Okay. And whose name is on the loan?

Moms and dads or yours? Who's the co who's the signer on the loan?

>> Um, I believe it's mom and then me. I believe I'm the co-signer on it.

>> Okay. So, what where I'm seeing here is

there's a lack of clarity on what's going on. So, we do need to have that because you need to know if you receive $4,000, if it's student loan money, you should know that because you have the right to be like, "Oh my gosh, I don't want to be on the hook for that. I'm not going to use debt to pay off debt." Right? So, understanding that's important, but it's spilled milk at this point. Um, I can understand if it was

loan money, if your mom was like, "Wait a minute. You took this loan money that we're both on the hook for to do this thing without consulting both of us because we're both on this loan." >> So, I can see that.

>> So, I want to put that out there. But, you used a really big word earlier when you said, "Mom and dad are abusing me with the money." So, >> I see no evidence of that. >> Show us that. Let us hear about that.

So, the reason why I say that is because

one, when I got that money, my first instinct was obviously to put it towards my debt. And my my both my parents are both spenders. My dad works in the oil field. My mom doesn't work anymore. So,

I'm currently in I'm in another state from te I'm from Texas originally. I'm in another state working as well as in school trying to pay all this stuff and all the things I can do. And they're helping me financially, but it's always about money, money, money. They My mom just bought a brand new Mercedes. My dad spends money constantly on his new truck. >> Okay. >> Um, >> what's that got to do with you? >> Left and right. >> But what's that got to do with you?

>> It's just a money struggle. They've always been haggling me for money as well as asking when I ask for money if I need it. They just never give it to me or they're 50/50 on it.

>> Okay. So, >> but that's not abuse. >> That's not I don't think it's abuse.

Like what what I'm hearing, Ken, is and correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler. What I'm hearing is your parents are spenders. It seems like they always have the money when it's time for something for them, but when it's something for you, it's a big deal. And it also sounds like they've hit you up for money. Maybe you had your job in high school and they're like, "Hey, let me can you spot me a 20?" That kind of thing. And they never paid you back. Is that the type of thing?

>> Um, a little bit. Yes. As well as like recently they've been wanting me to get a truck and they want me to help pay a down payment. And I've been telling them that I don't want to do that. >> Okay, then you don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Your parents, you're 22 now. >> Your parents can make suggestions. They can even try to like strongarm you to do things their way, but you don't have to, my guy. Like, you can say, "I'm just not going to do that." And that might be them being pushing some boundaries, kind of being, you know, a little disrespectful. But I wouldn't go the line of of abuse. Would you, Ken? I I don't know that I would go to that line.

You're being very nice. I've heard enough. >> Listen, Tyler, there's two things. Okay.

Number one, I actually get your instinct

>> and I your instinct to take that money and put it on debt. Great instinct.

>> It's a good instinct. Wrong move. Like right idea. >> I'm getting there. I'm getting there.

I'm getting there. I'm saying it was the right instinct. Uh but you should have communicated with the parents because they're involved in this financially.

>> You can do both. and also be frustrated

with them for all the stuff you're frustrated with them about how they handle money. I see all of this together. But the reality is is that you

and Jade's right. You're 22 now. So now we begin the separation and now we create a little bit better boundaries.

>> Yeah, you're right. You're right. >> And she's right. You should have communicated uh much better on this deal. What's done is done.

>> But let me be very clear. you need to stop saying they're financially abusing you because this is not anywhere close to it. I'm not just disrespect. It's dramatic. And by the way, words matter.

So when we think that our mom and dad are abusing us and then we tell somebody

>> uh and we tell two hosts on a radio giant show, >> then we've now become um we we've we've come to believe something that's just simply not true.

And then that colors how you handle things. They already handle money in a way that will continue to create tension for you going forward.

>> That's clear. >> And by the way, good on you, young man, to go, I don't want to live that way.

>> Yes. >> So, uh, I like the direction you're headed. All that to say, stop with this nonsense. Stop thinking it. Stop saying it. Stop feeling as though your parents are abusing you. They're not.

>> Um, and, uh, you just need to start to do things differently. >> You do. And honestly, how much are the student loans?

>> So, as of this moment, I checked last night, it was roughly about 40 40,000, but going into next year, I will be a junior. So, it's going to be tacked on roughly maybe about 80,000. I transferred to the University of Tennessee. >> Here, here's what I need for you.

Here's what here's my We took some time talking about mom and dad. I want to talk about Tyler for a minute because you were talking about mom and dad's bad money decisions, bad money habits. Tyler, you are following in those footsteps right now because you are taking on debt and you're going to an out ofstate school and you're doing all this thing just racking up money and I know that you're young, but you got to stop doing that cuz you're going to come out of this thing with $80,000 of debt.

>> And so mama's going to be breathing down your neck every month talking about where's the payment, you're messing up my credit, da da da da. And that is going to jack you and her. Great point.

If I were in your shoes, I would be thinking long and hard about can I do I

need this degree? Do I need to be out of state for this degree? Can I do it in my home state where I have instate tuition?

And can I do it someplace where I'm paying going at the speed of cash? I'm getting a job. I'm doing work study because $80,000 is a lot of money,

especially when it's tied up with mom and dad. >> This is a great point because they overextend themselves all the time. And that's why that tension around money is always there. They have a scarcity mindset. That's what you described.

>> And so tied to that, it's going to make your life miserable. So we prefer you not to have any more student loans, but if you're going to do student loans, do it without mom and dad attached >> at the very least and do it in states so that it at the very le don't hear me say get student loans, but do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Yes. I understand what both y'all are saying. And I've done the math as well.

Even when I originally did transfer, if I was looking back at other schools and some schools were the exact same price of the same major that I wanted compared to here and we just came to that >> sports management.

>> So, >> well, there's two ways to skin this one.

Um, you know, there are a lot of people that would argue with me and debate me on you need a a degree in sports management. Um, and that's probably

statistically true, not knowing that major super well.

>> However, I know it's possible to get any of those jobs without a degree because I can point to example after example. You got to get in. You got to get in. You got to you got to sweep floors.

You got to be a janitor. And then you work your way up to doing some type of analyst work. So, it's possible to get into sports management without a degree. But I can tell you that my partner's right today.

Nobody cares where you get your degree from. >> They sure don't. So I listen I know you what UT costs for uh instate students. I can't imagine what it costs for out of state students there.

>> Tyler, no one has ever asked me where I went to school. >> I'm not even allowed to tell anybody anymore. She made me stop talking about it. >> No one's ever even asked me what I got my degree in. Ever.

>> What did you get your degree in? >> Music. Commercial music. >> Well, that makes sense. >> Concentration of vocal performance. >> And now you're a bestselling author.

What a waste. What a waste of time and money.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is joining me here in the studio here of the Ramsay

Show. So excited that you're with us. 88 825-5225 is the phone number.8825-55225.

You got questions about income, feeling stuck, uh, feeling a little stale and

want to make some moves, I'll coach you on that. Got your money problems, Jade's got you on that. And we combine as well.

Let's go to Jennifer who's in Jackson, Mississippi. Jennifer, how can we help today?

>> Yes. I just have a real quick question.

And I have a son who is 17 about to turn

18. And my credit score is 8:30 and my

husband's is like 780.

And we want to start him off on the right track of having a good credit much like we do. And I was just wondering if there was a particular credit card or how y'all would maybe suggest uh helping

him get and obtain a good credit score

as well. >> Okay. Uh, >> I've never heard that question on this show before, actually. Don't think I have. >> I've gotten it a couple of times. Um, Jennifer, when did you start listening?

>> I just started like about a month ago.

>> Okay, great. >> That makes sense. Okay, very happy to have you. >> Yes, welcome aboard. >> Um, so what is it that what are you hoping he'll be able to do with that credit score? I just want to learn a little bit more about your intent here.

Um, well, I just want to know that when

he he is also about to start college,

um, he's a senior in high school now and so he'll be starting college and I know that he'll need, you know, we bought him his first vehicle, but I know that down the road that he'll need to get a vehicle and possibly be able to have to rent an apartment for college and this that and the other.

>> Well, here's I'll be honest with you. Here's why I don't like credit scores and here's why I I don't I've never focused on one and for, >> you know, for all intents and purposes, I don't um believe in them at all. Uh because you have to have debt. You have to interact with debt in order to have a credit score. And we also know that when

you borrow money, the borrower is slave to the lender. And so there's this part of the credit score that it has never it doesn't make sense to me because it's all about how you interact with debt, how much debt you have, what types of debt you've had, how long you've had your debt, what percentage of your debt that you're using, right? It's all nobody's asking questions about can you actually afford the item? How are you managing that the cash that you actually and the money that is actually yours that is in your bank account?

And so, >> right, >> that's why I have an issue with the credit score.

you to teach him a way that says, okay, if you have the money, you can afford it. If you don't have the money, >> right, >> you can't afford it. Now, let's go back to the things you talked about. >> He's a very good He is a very good saver right now. So, he only works part-time like two days a week and he has since this past summer and he's already saved like almost $3,000 and has purchased

like a like he's purchased like a $2,000 CD >> and this that and the other. So, I mean we have taught him like you do your 10%

tab then you have some that you put in this much you put in savings and this much is like your fund money. So, he's done that. But what I mostly worry about is like once he gets off to college and he has to rent an apartment. I know a lot of apartments look at credit score and if he doesn't have one, they may be like, "Oh, hello.

We can't rent to you." >> Well, there the truth is, you're right, a lot of credit card or a lot of uh apartments do look at your credit history. Uh but a lot of them don't.

the ones that do, if you simply go to them and say, "Hey, here's the thing. I know you guys look at credit scores. I have a zero credit score, which means that I don't borrow money because I don't believe in debt. But I also brought a copy of my bank account and you can see how much money that I have here. So, I'm good for the money. I also brought you my pay stubs so you can see how I work. And you know, if you if you

kind of dig deeper and also let them know, hey, they might charge you a little bit more for first and last month's rent. But the truth is, you may have to do a little bit of due diligence to find people who believe the same things you believe and can actually understand, hey, I actually have money because those apartment complexes are out there. So, let's check that one off the list.

loaded loaded up with a a car payment.

Because now we're teaching him, hey, if you want a car, you have to pay payments on it as opposed to teaching him, hey, if you want a car, let's buy one in cash. You got $5,000, 3,000 saved and 2,000 in a CD.

>> Once that CD is available, let's buy $5,000 car in cash. And then in in a year or two if you want to upgrade and add $3,000 more with it, now you're driving an $8,000 car and let's do that.

And so that you can always have your money freed up because one of the things we've learned, um, Jennifer is the car

payment is what keeps middle class middle class.

>> Mhm. >> Most people are walking around here with a $700 a month car payment. And because they have that car payment, it's tough for them to do things like invest for their future. And so I'd love to set him up with the mentality that I keep my

biggest wealth-b buildinging tool, which is my income, at my disposal. I don't give it away in payments every month.

And therefore, if I'm not in debt, I

don't need debt, which means I don't need a credit score.

>> Okay. >> It's a new way of thinking. I know that it is because people don't talk about it. >> It is. It's it's it's scary. It's scary new way of thinking. But yes, I I I see your point. >> Tell me the fear. I >> It's not scary.

>> What are you scared of? >> And it and it it goes it goes beyond the

rent because so college will only be four years and then after that it'll be he'll probably want to buy a house. And

I know it's a lot harder to, you know, obtain a house with no credit score and

save up for a big, you know.

>> Okay. So, let me let me let me uh break in and I want my colleague to tell you about that fear. Go ahead, explain it.

>> What if I told you that's not true? I Jennifer, I love this call so much. I'm so glad you're with us because you are

every woman USA right now calling in.

The truth is credit scores, they benefit

from us, right? They benefit from us being in debt. They make money off that.

But when we when when you get a credit card, when you sign up for a loan, there's a little thing called interest. And so there's a lot of people making money off of that. And so that's why you don't see on TV people advertising

uh zero credit scores cuz nobody's making money off of that. And so this whole thing is a product.

>> But the truth is, you can buy a house the it's no harder. You can buy a house with a zero credit score. It's called manual underwriting. And it's the same thing like I told you at the apartment complex. All they do, it's it's literally the same process, but all they're instead of looking at your credit score, they're looking at your actual money and they're going, "Okay, >> and I've never heard of that." >> I know, but it's true. Do you want to know that I bought my house with manual underwriting?

>> I had a zero credit score.

>> And so, okay, >> just to clarify, not not just for you, but anybody listening, a zero credit score is not the same as a bad credit score. That's right. A bad credit score is you haven't done well borrowing money and so you have a bad credit score or a low credit score. A zero credit score is

just as good as a high credit score. It simply means I don't borrow money. And if you were to look at my credit report, it would say indeterminable.

And so there are plenty of places, Church Hill Mortgage is one that we talk about all the time. They're everywhere in the United States except New York and Alaska. And they do manual underwriting.

And literally all they look at, I'm going to tell you right now, they look for 12 months of trade lines. And that could be you pay your cell phone bill, you pay your utilities, that sort of thing online or I'm sorry, on time. They look for 12 months of your rental history. So if he goes to rent, he just needs to show 12 months. I paid my rent on time. And then they want to see your >> I'm sorry.

>> Oh, I just said, uh, >> okay. And then they want to see what you made over the last year. And they'll ask for your payubs just like anything else.

And then they go, "Okay, great." And if he happens to be self-employed, they might ask him for his tax returns, but that is it. And I just want to clear the air for anybody. You're you're helping so many people right now because a lot of people don't know that this is a thing. And it 100% is. And once you know

that, all of a sudden, it's weird because Ken, the credit score don't mean a thing but a chicken wing at that point. >> So true. And I love what you just said. The zero credit score tells people this is somebody who's very solid with their money and that's all they care about is are they going to get paid.

Yeah. >> So when you prove as Jade, you know, really laid out well that you can pay, your son's got nothing to worry about. So that fear is natural, Jennifer, but it's because you've never heard what she just laid out.

>> Mhm. >> But she's right. Go do your homework on it. Check her on it. >> I promise you. Oh, yeah. It's popular to do these days. Fact check us.

I think you'll like what you see. This is the Ramsay Show.

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>> All right, today's question comes from Randy in Delaware. He says, "I've been seeing a lady for over a year and she has borrowed over $1,700

from me that she has not paid back. I'm a single day." >> Oo, I'm a single father with over $20,000 in debt. My wife passed away and

I'm living on just my salary. I have a nine-year-old son and my daughter is 24.

I am serious about this lady, but it bothers me that she has not fulfilled her promise to pay back my $1,700 after

9 months. How do I approach her about this concern? >> Randy, >> listen. >> Oh, man. Randy, >> sometimes I read these questions ahead of time and sometimes I don't cuz I just want to feel the impact in the moment.

>> What are you feeling right now? >> I'm feeling impacted.

>> How? Well, I it's two parts to this, Randy. There's two parts to this. A >> you lent her the money, and whenever you loan money, there's always a risk, right? There's the risk that the person's not going to repay it. That's the biggest risk. And then the secondary risk is that because they don't repay it, or even if they do, it will affect the relationship in some adverse way.

Right? Those are the two biggies of why we say don't loan money. And you hit the nail on the head on both of them. Number one, she's kind of being a scrub and not paying the money back. And how are you supposed to feel good about this relationship? Because now it's has the ability to create like a little bit of bitterness. You take her out on a Randy takes, let's call her, you know, Sheila.

Randy takes Sheila out on a date. Let's call her Sally. Randy takes Sally out on a date. >> He's not going to feel good about picking up her steak dinner. He's already >> I'm gonna tell you, okay, I'm gonna talk to Randy like I would be talking to Randy if he showed up here and we had a cup of coffee. I would look at Randy and I'd say, "Randy, I'm gonna tell you what the problem is. You are serious about

this woman, Sally, aren't you?" And he'd go, "Yeah, I'm serious about it." I go, "Yeah, and she knows it, doesn't she?" >> And he would go, "She knows it. She's not paying the 1700 back ever." Because

Sally, is that her name? >> Sally. Sally >> Sally Sheila >> Sally Ride >> Sally is banking on closing the deal.

>> Is this what you think? >> I know. I know what's going on. He has

made her feel like she's the one. He told us in a simple email that uh he is

serious about her. She knows he's serious. She thinks the 1700 is already

their money and he's going to forgive it cuz he's going to put a ring on it. >> I don't know. Sally could be a Rolling Stone. Sally could be a Rolling Stone that's like, "Hey, >> Sally is >> I'm just here for a little while." >> All right, let me flip this for a second. I might get in trouble for this with you, but I'm going to do it.

>> Okay, get in trouble. >> If you and Sam were dating, >> okay, this is not you and Sam real life, but this is you and Sam. This is male and female. >> Got you. Got you. >> And I'm with you. >> Sam loaned you $1,700.

And you had not paid it back. Same deal.

Nine months. >> Mhm. You're a human being. This isn't a

Jade or a Sally. This is a human being and a woman who feels like her man is

serious about her. Are you going to be in a hurry? Is any woman going to be in

a hurry to pay the $1,700 back?

>> I think if I really was >> Do you think that you guys are going to be an item and get married? >> If I was on like if I was dating Sam, that means I'm like I've got respect.

And not that I would ever do this, but if I had borrowed money, I feel like it's a great opportunity for me to >> If you think he's gonna pop the question I am, >> you're gonna pay that back. If you think you're gonna be two instead of one,

>> come on. This is a human question.

>> I'll tell you, it's hard for me to put myself in that position because I can't even imagine being in that position.

>> I'm going to tell you what's going on.

This woman feels like he's in love with

her. And because he's in love with her,

she doesn't have to pay the money back cuz it's their money. There's a guy in the lobby with his thumb up in the air.

He knows I'm spitting truth right now.

>> But then why would they even like >> That's why he should have never lent her the money. >> Well, why would they even come up with those terms if they were on on that level at that point? It's just like >> terms. >> Well, he's clearly saying like she was supposed to pay it off within a within a term cuz it's been it's past 9 months.

>> No, it wasn't a term. He's saying he's saying here it's been 9 months. Where's my money, honey? >> But the problem is she said to him in a moment of weakness, I need $1,700. But my point is this, baby. My point is he gave it to her and now she's never going to pay him. >> Ken, you don't go 2015 Rihanna talking

about pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot to the woman you love and want to marry. You don't do that.

>> I know that's what Well, but that's the point I'm making. He needs to reconcile the fact he's never getting this money back. So, he needs to close the deal.

>> Close the deal >> and then get rid of the resentment >> or it's gonna end badly is what I'm getting at. My point is is I'm not throwing shade at Sally, Sheila, or whatever you called her. I'm saying Sally, >> I think this is a pretty typical human behavior when you're in a pretty close relationship that he's he's the last person she's thinking about paying back.

Oh, here's my other point. You don't borrow money and >> I know he's already done it. So, I'm saying to him, "Pal, >> you need to marry this woman." >> I think I'm I'm just going out here.

>> He's not getting the money back. >> Okay. I'm the exact opposite. I think she's a Rolling Stone. I think that he's vulnerable and because he's gone through a lot and found a nice looking lady and she might is taken a little bit of advantage, but she has no aim.

>> And would you also Okay. Would you also agree she probably has other debts?

>> Yeah. >> That are much bigger than what she owes this port. >> That's what I'm saying. He's never getting the money back. >> Okay. That's what I'm saying. He's not getting it. >> Getting it. >> Hands up if you agree with me in the lobby. Look at this. This is real time.

>> You guys are really giving this lady a lot of credit.

>> I'm giving her zero credit.

>> I'm just saying she's not she's never paying it back. That's what they agree.

>> No, she's not. Like I agree she's never paying it back. But I also don't think they're getting married. Raise your hand if you think they're going to actually end up getting married. Okay. See, there you go. There you go. Yeah.

>> So, >> well, now in this case, he uh Well, now

this changes everything. See, I wasn't even going that far down the road. I was telling him to cut his losses, >> but now if like they cut their relationship losses, he needs to do that sooner rather than later. Agree. But I think he's smitten.

>> Yeah. Well, she's shown a piece of I

feel like she's if if what you're saying is true. I feel like she's shown a piece of herself cuz there's a little integrity there cuz they're not married yet. He hasn't even proposed yet. be one thing if it was his fiance.

He hasn't even proposed. If you borrow money, you should pay it back. Whether it be to credit card company, your grandma, you know, whoever it is, if you borrow money, pay it. >> But relationship 101 here, you shouldn't even borrow money or lend money to your fiance.

You would agree with that? >> I would agree with that. I am a like I have a hard line on that. I think that if you would like to give someone money and you have the money to give, you should give it.

In his case, it doesn't even sound like he didn't he clearly did not have the money to give.

>> And I think that's when you get into hot water is if you don't have it to give, sometimes you can't give it.

>> Yeah. >> And that's just hard, you know, when people you love are asking. >> If Stacy and I were dating and she asked me for money, I'd say, "Honey, you got to marry me cuz it's all yours at that point anyway. Until then, I'm not loaning you a nickel." I mean, I'm just telling you. I'll tell you what Sam Warshaw did do. This is terrible. This is a bad This is tisk. Don't do this.

>> He Okay, my car. I was driving a Jeep Liberty and the the the AC and the heat

on it was bad. And so when winter came, my heat wasn't working. And he got in my car and was like, "You've been driving around like this?" And I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "I'm going to get you a car." And I thought he was being a hero. He co-signed a car for me. This is pre you

guys getting out. This is >> pre us getting No, we weren't even married. We weren't even married.

>> Oh, you were dating.

>> He co-signed a car for me. We were just We were just about to This is all part of your story. >> This is all part of you. And that's what I'm saying. Seen the light off.

>> That's why I'm saying like you might be right that he was smitten cuz I think that a guy like love goggles will make you do anything. >> That's what Sam did with you. >> Yeah. But it's a good thing I married.

>> That's a fact. >> Married him otherwise. Here's a problem with our guy. What's this guy's name?

Uh, Randy. >> Randy. Listen, here's the problem. Every guy wants to be the knight on the horse.

>> Exactly. Night and shining armor.

>> And it's it's one of our kryptonite problems. And this girl bat her eyes at him. And she cried and he swooned and

gave her $1,700. And he might as well lit it on fire.

>> All right. Not getting that money back.

>> Just don't do it ever. It muddies any relationship, whether it's romantic or any kind of relationship. Don't give friends or family alone.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver.

Dayton, how can we help today?

>> Hey there, guys. Um, yeah, calling in.

Just I'll make it as brief as I can. Um it's a bit of a mindset kind of thing.

Um my wife and I quite a few years ago we had quite a bit of debt about 22,000 and we had worked hard to pay that off and then since then we've had three kids, bought a house and then a lot of things have happened and racked up quite a bit more debt. Um my my mind my mindset question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again? We're just starting the baby steps and uh we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it.

So I'm just wondering if you guys can kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out.

>> So my first question would be when you back in the day when you paid off the 22,000, what did it what did it look like to pay that off? Did it was it painful or was it kind of like we're going to do this and once it was done it was done?

Um, initially it was kind of painful.

Like I I can't believe I did this.

Credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18. And then um I just worked I I was at a job where I could work tons of overtime. So I pretty much worked seven days a week, >> 60 70 hours a week kind of thing. And we just we worked through it and it felt really good when we got out of debt, but it was it was a grind getting through it. >> How long did that take?

Um, I was able to pay that off in about

11 months, I think it was.

>> So, without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What what what type of things?

Well, in that window, um, pretty much right after that, we got married and then we had our first child and then we

had our second child and then I did a career change that cost me um quite a

bit of money to go to school down in Texas and then um we bought a house um

and then we had a third child and you know when you buy a house to make it what you want it you you end up spending money >> thinking that it's going to be okay. So, what kind of career change was this?

What are you doing now?

>> Uh, I'm a firefighter now.

>> And what did that cost you?

>> Uh, it cost me about $20,000 to get into that. >> Do you still have a loan on that?

>> Uh, no. So, well, yeah, I guess it's part of my one of my line of credits.

Um, I used to get into that.

>> And so, I'm hearing one of your line of credits and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids.

>> Yes.

>> Interesting. Yeah. Um, I'm just thinking about what you're saying and first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet, right?

So, you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one I'm a person that I think everything is in the process. The first time it took you about 11 months. The truth is the debt wasn't that drastic.

It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off, but you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's you, it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more.

that you need?" And I I I think I hear the mindset that got you into it. And I'll try to give you an idea of the mindset that got you out that's going to keep you out, which is I think um

Dayton, a lot of times when we are in

our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not, it doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like I work hard. I deserve to spend, right?

I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want. I deserve to have the car and the house I want. After all, I've worked hard.

And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in because that's what's happened to you. You listed it. You're like, "Well, we had kids and then I wanted this career and then I wanted this house." And it's kind of like what other thing would cause you to go into debt other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. And then the the other side of that I deserve is you're also seeing what other people have and it's like well how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house. The people around me have the car and so you're you're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see. Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. Yeah. To a degree. I mean like I never we don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been but yeah, totally lifestyle like wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you know, that kind of stuff. >> And so I think the mentality going out of it and and don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is.

But I want you to adapt the mentality of

what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder.

Right? >> Ding ding ding. You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like it's not, you know, cuz the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough.

>> What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore, I must and then you go to all these debt sources. But you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family.

>> Yeah. >> So, Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling? The negative emotions attached to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today and you said, "How do I keep from doing this again?" What is the most negative emotion? Describe it.

>> Uh, well, I would say it's uh like massive amounts of shame because I was in a good position and I've made good money for a lot of years.

>> Um, and I'm back to making good money now. And it was a lot of shame to like

look at the finances. I knew they were getting out of hand, but I literally like every time I think to open up the banking app or do my budget, my immediate thing is like, "Oh, don't do that, man." Like >> you you're just looking looking your failure in the face, right? So that would have been how it got out of hand for sure. >> How much stress?

How much pressure do you feel? >> Oh, lots. Like especially now looking at my new twomonth-old baby and like thinking like cuz I'm the sole income earner in our family. uh my thankfully my job allows for that.

>> What if I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's fantastical question, but how would you feel? How would you feel? >> Um I I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure, if I'm not carrying that baggage around. Right.

>> Okay. So my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to in these moments on a daily b on

daily basis remind yourself how awful this feels.

>> Mhm. >> And I don't ever want to feel that again. Like that to me if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight, somebody who beats some type of an addiction and I've been able to interview people like this. I know people my personal life. if you trace their story of when they recovery, you know, we've heard Dave say this for years on this show and on stage is it's the I had it moment. You know, you've talked about that. You talked about it earlier in the show today.

>> I think you have to bottle this emotion >> not to stay with it. And uh I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful. But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again. And it's actually really simple to never get

back in this again. You can get out of it. You've done it before. You're going to do it this time. But to never get back in again, he goes, I don't ever want to feel that again. And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up. Walk the baby steps. You can do this. Throw off that code of shame.

You're not a dead beat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man. >> You made a bad financial decision.

Welcome to the club, pal. You're going to be okay.

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The Ramsey show continues. I'm Ken Koma Jade Warshaw is alongside 888255225

is the phone number. Laura is joining us now in Los Angeles. Laura, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I my husband and I already know

a lot of debt uh from a small business we started and I need you to guide me.

>> Okay. >> How to get out of it, I guess. >> All right. Give us some numbers.

>> Okay. So, we're talking if we're combining personal and business, it's about like 150.

>> Okay. How much is from the business though? I'm just curious.

Um, well, I would say all of it because we put in from personal into the business, but just the bit like the credit cards would be like 90,000.

>> We Okay. And what's the rest of the the

debt? What's the rest of the >> They're all They're all credit cards.

>> All of it's on all 150s on credit cards.

>> Yes. So, >> oh my word. We even opened up personal loans to pay for the credit card so we

can have more space for the credit cards. It's a mess.

>> So, how many credit cards total?

>> Um, I would say there's about seven.

>> Seven. And then you said you have personal loans open too. Is that included in the 150 or is that what is that? >> Yes, >> that that's included in the 150. Yeah.

>> Okay. So your thought is like, "Hey, we use these personal loans to pay down the credit card to clear up more space so we can borrow more on the credit card." >> Exactly.

>> What's the What's your income situation?

Are you guys still working in the business?

>> No. No, we it took us a while, but we

brightened up to to close that business.

Well, it's still open, but it's not running. >> Okay, got you. Um, >> so what's your income?

My husband makes about I would say 120 and I make 80. So >> where does that money come from?

>> We each have jobs.

>> Got it. >> Okay. So we got $200,000 combined income. >> Correct. >> Okay. Uh do you have any other debt outside the 150? I know she asked you that, but I'm just totally clarifying.

This is all your debt.

Well, yeah, we have a a mortgage, a car

if you're if if if that's what you're asking. >> Yeah, we want to know. So, tell us about your cars, your student loans, any anything that you owe money towards that you make a monthly payment towards. We want to know about it. So, go ahead and tell me your mortgage. I'm just curious.

What do you owe on it?

>> Um, I would say we owe it like 400,000.

So monthly I paid 3300 for mortgage.

>> Okay. >> Um the car I paid 700 a month. I think

there's like $19,000 left on it.

>> Okay. >> Uh we have a leased car that's $400 a

month. My son's school is $850 a month.

>> Um my >> Is that private school or is that daycare?

>> Private school. >> Okay. How old is he?

four. >> Okay. >> Okay. Keep going.

>> Um, my school one is 400.

And so our personal loans, his is 1,600

a month. Mine is 850 a month.

>> Okay. And how much? But that personal loan is included in the 150 you told me earlier. >> Yes. >> Okay. Tell me, um, when you guys get your paychecks, like after everything's taken out, what do you take home every month?

>> What's your check look like between both of you combined? >> Mine >> uh Yeah, mine is about 2,000 and his is

about >> Oh, no. That's on every other week. So,

about >> 9,000 for him.

>> Okay, that's the good news. >> So, 13 net. And just a real quick question. I don't want to get bogged down on this, but why is the four-year-old in a private school?

>> Um, because of I I don't want him to

learn anything that >> Right. But is it prek?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have to be in prek.

>> Um, I'm just wondering right out of there. some money to be saved on some home care maybe versus But I I I don't there's bigger issues going on, >> but y'all got to y'all got to like cut back big time.

>> Big big time. >> There's the bumper sticker that Jade's about ready to walk you through. >> Well, I think that's I mean, jumping off with with Ken's point could be a good place to start. You know, the only way to get out of debt is there's two methods you could invoke here. You could work more, right, to have more margin.

Uh you could also cut back on your budget to find more margin. or you can do a combination of both. Um, and to Ken's point, that school might be a great place to start because I don't know what you were going to say as far as like I don't want them to learn certain things. I it might be some of the same feelings that I have and my kid is in private school, but for right now it's okay.

Um, or and they're in daycare and for right now it's okay. So, it might be worth it for you to invoke that when they get a little bit older. Could be that it's your kid, your problem. I was going to say, yeah, and I I may step on toes here, but since we're here, I'm going to go ahead and say it because I know a lot of Americans are thinking this, so I'm going to go ahead and say it.

>> Get in there. You might have to put your hat on. >> I don't remember anything from my 12th grade year. Your four-year-old, no matter what they're trying to teach the kid, I mean, I get it.

I'm not in LA. I get it. But I don't know. I would be looking to save $800 a month >> tonight.

>> Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, what matters most is what you teach him at home. >> Yeah.

>> I know. And I got to be careful. I'm not judging you. I'm just saying, you know, the four-year-old, we could cut that.

That's 800 bucks a month. That's $9,600 a year. >> It's a lot for where you're at right now. It is a lot. We just want to highlight that it is a lot. Um, next thing is I'm looking at possibly both of

these cars. I want to know about how you can get out of this lease. When is this lease over?

um re like very soon. I would say like

four months. >> Okay. And then your option you just turn the car in and you're out.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I would do that. Don't try to buy back the car or nothing like that. Just get out of the lease. Um and in the meantime, do you have any money saved?

>> Uh no. Everything is gone.

>> Okay. Then what I'd be doing knowing that this lease is about to come up, I'd be like, "We got to stack up $3,000 because when this lease goes away, we need to be able to buy a car in cash.

And that's what that that's kind of the car plan. So, write that down in your notebook as when we've turned in this lease in 3 months. In 3 months, we'll also be buying a $3 to $4,000 car. I know you have the margin in your budget to do that. Okay. >> Okay. So, that deals with one car. Let's talk about the $19,000 car. Do you know what that car is worth? The payment was kind of high, didn't you say it was like $700?

>> Yes, it I think we bought it at 50

uh,000. >> Okay. Hey, do you know what it's worth now?

>> I don't. >> Okay, that's your second piece of cart homework. I want you to go on kellylbluebook.com, look at private sale because it sounds like if if you bought it at 50 and judging by the height of your payment, I feel like you've been paying this off kind of fast. Is that am I wrong?

>> No, you're you're Yeah, you're right.

>> Okay. So, you might actually you might not be upside down. And if you're not, I would still get out of this and get into something cheaper because the $700 payment, you need that money. And so now we've just found $1,100 in your in your budget with these cars and you need every dime of that to go towards paying

off this this credit card debt. The good news is can I mean you guys have a good income. It's not wonderful for LA, but it's wonderful for the rest of the country. >> Yeah. And it's doable. And again, not telling you what to do with your kid in school, but if we take the 800 on top of that, now we're right at the doorstep of two grand that we found in your monthly budget. That goes a long way to paying off $150,000 in debt.

>> Okay? Because now you're looking at if we just take 2,000 a month that you found and you put it towards debt, that's 24,000 a year. Now, that's a long haul, right? And this is a drastic change of your lifestyle. You're not going on vacation. You know, you aren't going out to eat. uh you guys are going to have to really hustle. But but again,

my my co-host today, this is a woman who

who her and her husband paid off half a million dollars. >> Uh she needs a little pep talk as we go into the break here cuz mindset wise, what does she got to be thinking right now? >> You've got to be thinking the hard part is you're making a good income and to not be living in that income feels like, oh man, I've been working hard. But the time will come when you do get to do that.

So just hold on. If you clean up this mess, you're going to enjoy your income like you never have before. Right now, you've kind of faux enjoyed it with all these things on payments and it's not all it's cracked up to be. But if you walk through this journey, you're going to get to enjoy the fruit of 220 plus,000 a year with no debt and payments.

>> You can do it. >> You can. >> Appreciate the call. All right, quick break. Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. Thrilled that you are with us.

It's where we help you win in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour. The phone number is 88825-5225.

and Jade. Uh across the studio through

the glass on the debtree stage in the lobby are some folks and that means we've got a debtree screen coming your way. Uh Gary and Melissa, welcome.

>> Thanks. Thanks. >> All right. Where are you guys from?

>> From Bellplane, Minnesota. >> Bellpoint, Minnesota. Is that near Minneapolis? >> Just south Minneapolis. >> Okay, good. Boy, are you just excited to see the sun this time of year?

>> Yep. >> There it is. All right. So, uh, all this way to do a debtree scream. Very exciting. So, let's hear the numbers.

How much debt did you pay off and how long? >> We paid off $165,000 over 47 months.

>> All right. >> Wow. And what was your range of income?

>> We started at about a 160 and ended at about 200. >> Oh. What uh what led to the uh bump in pay? >> We just leaned into our careers. We both earned promotions and >> Okay. >> stuck to it. >> What do you mean by promotions? They were he moved from a um factory position to a safety manager and I just kind of

took different roles at my current company. >> And what are you doing? >> I'm a client relationship manager.

>> Okay, fantastic. That is awesome. All right. What was uh all this debt? What did the 165 get comprised of?

>> By the time we finally got down to just writing everything out, um we had a heliloc that we had been leaning on. We had a car and then we had a credit card that we were just kind of paying off every month. Um, so that was probably the smallest and easiest one to pay off.

>> Okay. So, pretty good size helock.

>> Yeah, it was about 40,000. So, >> yeah, we used it to remodel our basement and then kind of kept it and kept it going. >> Okay. All right. So, tell us 47 months

ago. What happens? What was the catalytic moment to lead you on this journey? >> Yeah. So, he was going back to school.

It was his last semester and we had found we were kind of we were trying to cash flow it, but we'd get a little short. So, we'd pull a little bit out of the HELOC. We were getting kind of sloppy. And as last semester came up and the the tuition payment was going to be due, we finally said, "This is it." Um, we're doing it in cash.

And we had about two and a half months before that was due. And we did it. And that was kind of our our biggest victory as we got started. >> That's awesome.

So, you're funding education out of the HELOC >> little bit. Yeah. Cash flowing it. But then we were kind of filling the gaps.

We were just being sloppy. There was no reason for it. >> Yeah. So, what was kind of like you hit the moment of like listen, we're not going to do this anymore.

We're going to start paying cash. What how did you find Ramsay? Like how did you find like this and this is the way we're going to do it going forward? >> Yeah, we knew about it before that.

Uh we just weren't following it. We kind of thought we were doing good on our on our path. You know, we were kind of budgeting. Um but then it was just like just tired of the revolving debts.

Like this year it was a heliloc. Couple years before it was a 401k loan. It just kind of things we were just it was a shell game.

>> It does get tiring. So, you're working the baby steps. Is this you're getting on a budget. Is this you guys picking up extra work or is this like listen, we're just tightening up on the budget? We're just getting very clean on what we're doing. Tell us about that. >> Yeah, it was pretty much just us um tightening it up as much as we could, cutting out any unnecessary expenses. Uh

we didn't have any side hustles, but we tried to do more experience-based activities with the kids. Mhm.

>> You know, we do a lot of camping, uh, going up to the cabin, stuff like that.

So, just try to cut out those unnecessary expenses.

>> Do you, uh, do the ice fishing in Minnesota? Do you guys do that? >> We do. And I guess spear fishing is probably >> Yeah, >> I learned about that.

I I don't want to go down the rabbit hole for the rest of the people who don't care, but you talk about camping, all that, and I heard about how you do the ice fishing. Like, it's like a whole thing. It's like a a whole experience. Everybody goes out and all that jazz.

>> It's fun. >> Yeah. No, I don't think it is. I'll be honest.

I heard it described and I didn't think it was fun at all, but uh much much love to you on that. All right, so uh let's talk about this.

point that you guys said, "Okay, we'd heard a little bit about this Ramsey stuff, now we're going to do it." Was it hard or was it We were on the same page.

What was the beginning of that journey like when you finally said, "All right, we're committing." How I mean, was it hard for you or did you just roll right through it?

It was a little bit of getting on the same page. We started with that first goal of getting that last um tuition payment and then from there it was adopting the budget which um I wrote out the budget on the nerd. Um took him a little bit to get into the budget but once we started rolling then uh we were both fully bought in. >> Yeah, it was reluctant at first.

It was uh >> the idea of getting on that budget was a little rough. Um >> but once you saw it start to really work that's when I brought bought in all the way. So re relate to that a little bit because I know a lot of people dislike budgeting, right? They hear the word budget, they think it's a punishment, they think it's something that's holding them back.

Uh what changed that for you? Because I I love talking to people who don't like budgeting and changing their minds.

>> um like all the little pieces equal to certain amount of money and we had that >> sitting on our refrigerator and then every time we were paying off any amounts uh Melissa was really good at filling in those spaces. >> I like to fill it in. >> So, you like to feel the milestone like you want to feel the milestone you're celebrating. It's kind of a fun process.

>> Yeah. And it was a way to see that work.

And we did the same thing with our house where we printed off a picture of like balloons holding up our house and each one was a certain dollar amount. And >> now wait a minute. Did you pay the house off? >> We did. >> What? >> Oh, you didn't tell us that.

>> Wait for a second. >> I was digging. I was like 65. I was

trying to figure out how big was that credit card. >> Listen. >> You paid your house off.

>> That's amazing. Okay. Okay. Okay. That makes a little more sense. >> Yes. We just got into it. Guys, I need you to shout that from the rooftops.

>> Yeah, you guys are congratulations.

>> Ho home. All right. Now, who are your biggest cheerleaders on the way?

>> I would say we've got some family that um was walking the journey along with us and then my parents. Um we just like to talk money. You know, there's more that um caught than taught and it was those conversations that just kind of kept us focused and motivated.

>> Wow, >> that's awesome. So, what's next? You got a paid for home, no debt, life is good.

What do you do? What do you do to celebrate? Don't say ice fishing.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, we came here.

>> Okay. >> Um and then we've got some fun projects for the house now that it's all done.

We've kind of It's time to have some fun there. >> Yeah. And you don't have to take out a heliloc to do it. That's the best part.

Speed of cash. >> That's so fun. All right. I see the kiddos over there. Um let's bring them up and then we're going to talk about them for a second. We've got uh tell us who they are and the ages. Yeah, we've got Charlotte is 13, Kelvin is 11, and Caleb is seven. >> Okay. And and so how quickly did you

bring them into this journey? And then how involved were they in the conversations around this? Because you just said, uh, Melissa, that you and your family talk about money. I'm guessing these kiddos have a pretty good idea about what we're about to do. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. They do. They listen to the podcast with us a lot of the time.

Um, we have the game at home. Okay.

>> We've played that a few times. Um, you know, our um, debt trackers were up on the fridge, so they saw it the same as we did. Um, so it was really a family journey. They knew kind of what the goal was and why we did things the way we did. >> Okay. And no griping, no complaining.

They were pretty good soldiers. >> N they're pretty good. They're pretty easy. That's awesome.

>> Well, this is really exciting. Well, listen, before we do the screen, I want to let you know we're also going to give you uh some gifts here. Uh, one is uh

Dave's Total Money Makeover. that's for you to give to someone else because you guys have you guys have actually done this. And then Baby Steps Millionaires, Dave's latest book, and that's where you guys are headed uh probably pretty quickly with the income you guys have.

So, those are our gift to you. All right, let's do this. Is the team ready?

The kiddos have they've been practicing.

They're old enough to I got to hear you guys. All right, I want to hear all those different tones coming out. Let's do this thing. We've got Gary, Melissa, Charlotte, Kelvin, and Caleb. All from the Minneapolis area. They paid off $165,000 in 47 months, starting out making 160

and ending at $200,000.

Let's go team. Let's hear your debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> I heard them all. I heard them all. Did you? >> I heard every voice. >> Little You're the professional musician.

Did you pick I picked up all three voices. I don't know what you call them. >> I heard all of them. There was no harmony, but I heard all three.

>> Well, you're tough. You're a tough one to It's like a judge from American Idol.

That's right. I would never want to do that in front of you. Uh but this is a great example of how a family's tree, as

Dave has said, for decades changes. So very, very cool. Awesome stuff. All right, don't go anywhere. We've got to take a quick break. Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman with you. This is the Ramsay Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 8882552258255225.

Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside.

All right, so uh what do we got here? We got a Ramsey Network app question. Is that right? >> Now, is this audio, James, or am I reading this question?

>> I'm just reading this one. >> Okay. I'm sorry, folks. cuz I didn't do my production notes and I thought I'm not going to try to fake my way through it.

I'm just going to ask my earthwhile captain in there and uh sometimes we listen to these, sometimes I read them and I I didn't pay attention to my notes. Kids, this is why you study before you take the test. All right. All right.

Today's Ramsey Network app question. By the way, the network app, I just want to say this very briefly. This is fantastic stuff. We'll remind you later in the show, but we have just exclusive content over there that only people who have the app, and you can get it uh in the App Store, Google Play, uh can listen.

It's just a a part of the show that no one else can get. We'll remind you about that later, but uh fantastic app and and a lot of great content over there. So, this question is from Jane. Uh she asked, "After many stops and starts in college and throughout my career, realize I'm passionate about filmm particular helping to fight and advocate for people who don't have a voice.

I've since learned that it's hard to make money in this profession. Can you give me some advice on some things that I can do where I can actually earn a living? Oh my my that's that's an open-ended question there.

the quick advice is you need to find work uh different types

of gigs um in many different lanes that

all have one thing in common that allow you to use what you do best. That's your skill to do work that you really really enjoy that produces a result that matters. So you say you're passionate about film making. Okay. We we love the artistic film making. Um and then you add in the specifics of you the results that you want to produce from film making ideally would be to fight um bad

things to advocate for people who don't

have a voice. So there is an activist >> an advocating type of film or art that

you want to put out. Mhm.

>> So for instance, this could be documentary film making obviously and we see a lot of this. >> Yeah. >> And so um someone has told you or you have listened or you have uh started the process of trying to get in film making and what you've discovered and what she's discovered Jade is this thing called a ladder.

>> Yeah. Got to make Yeah.

>> And on the lower rungs of the ladder, Jade, we don't make a whole lot of money. >> Peanuts sometimes.

>> Yeah. And so if I might, could I go back into the wayback machine?

>> Way back. Take us way back. Back in time. >> I'm 31, 32 and realize that I really

want to go into broadcasting, but I do not have a degree in broadcasting. I had no experience in broadcasting. I just had what I thought was the gift of GAP, but I mean hadn't tested it.

>> Yeah. >> I have three little kids.

>> You know, my kids. I do. >> They were littles.

And that means I got to provide and fabulous wife and a puppy and the whole nine yards in the house. And and so um the reality was is I began to do the work like Jane had to discover, okay, what does it look like to work in the film industry? What does it look like to work in broadcasting? And what I found out pretty quickly was on those rower lungs of the of of lower rungs rather of the ladder.

>> It wasn't going to feed the family.

>> Yeah. So what I did is what my advice for Jane is or anybody that's listening is is I had to have a day job >> that took care of business >> and I was then going to have to part-time get into broadcasting, get a

little experience here, get a little experience there and over time step into

it slowly. In other words, embrace the ladder. So you got to have something else to fall back on while you're trying to get into film making. So uh I wish that the advice was clearer. I wish it was better. It's not uh if that's what you want to get into any type of artistic >> form of telling stories or whatever. Uh if you could find other causes, maybe you go work for a nonprofit.

>> Uhhuh. You know, um and you actually then begin to do video work for them instead of going into the film industry and then telling stories.

>> That's about all I can ideate on there.

You want to add anything to that without having her on the phone? >> Yeah, I agree. I think you're right. There's a part of this you have to pay your dues. And I do think um when it

comes to the arts, when you're first starting out, there is a part of that dream that you have that you do have to generalize in the beginning because you got to take opportunity.

>> And it's kind of like uh music artists

when they first get signed, they have to, you know, the machine decides what they're going to do. It's not until they're in it for a while that they finally get to go, now I do the songs I want to write. Now I do, now I do it my way. And so it might be a while for her before she's doing what she labeled here

as, you know, helping people fight and advocate for people. It just understand it could be a while before you do it exactly the way that you want to do it. And that's okay. >> You know what song I'm thinking about?

>> I don't. >> I did it my way. How about that? I got

to sing. >> Yeah. My grandfather used to sing that. I love that. >> Yeah. There you go. James is so happy right now. >> Good job, Ken. >> Yeah, I thought it was on key. Actually, that was really good. >> I thought it was on key. A little bit of a kuner kind of feel there. We're gonna move on quickly. Paul in Hartford, Connecticut. Paul, how can we help?

>> Hello guys. How are you? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Um, so basically I'm kind of in a predicament right now. Um, last week we're at a family reunion and my dad come up to me and he just uh basically asked me to take out a loan for him of

$20,000.

>> Um, >> for what? >> Just casually.

>> Yeah, just casually. for what?

>> Um, he says he has some business going on. He didn't give me any details. Uh, I

know I don't need to take the the loan out. >> Okay. >> I just want to know how to basically, you know, turn him down without having any issues after that. >> Um, okay. Clearly and quickly. Hey, Dad.

Pops. Listen. Thought about it for about two seconds. Uh, no.

Not gonna do it. Love you, Dad. You're awesome. Not happening.

What would you add to that? >> I thought he was going to say I just want to ask you guys what was wrong with them. >> But you say, >> "Well, I think he's kind of wondering that, too." >> Um, yeah. Listen, I'm glad that you know that you're not going to take out this loan. I think the way to do that is just simply say, "I I Dad, I don't borrow money and so I can't help you borrow money." >> That was much nicer than the way I said it.

>> Yeah. Right. >> No, Paul. Seriously, Jade's right. I think you're respectful. >> Yeah, be respectful. You're like, "Dad, I I don't believe in debt and >> I I can't do this. I I I'm so sorry.

>> If you want to be really polite and really respectful, I just roll differently in that situation. Like if a family member, especially my dad comes to me, I'll be like, "Dad, you know what my honest answer would be? This is not what I'm recommending, but I literally would have been like, if he rolled up on me at a party like that, I looked at him and went, >> "Do you have a fever? Should you lie down?

Can I get you a cold rag and a glass of water? Have you lost your ever loving mind? That's what I would have said to my dad. >> Is this normal?

>> Not me, but u some other family members.

Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz it felt so casual. I wondered if it was normal. Um Yeah. Is it that he

wants you I'm just curious. Is it that he wants you to just fully take it out in your name or does he want you to cosign or what is it?

>> Fully take it out my name. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah. >> That's different. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you just got to say no. And at this point, >> resist making it about the details. I know I just asked details, but resist making it about like, "Dad, you didn't even show me a plan or you didn't even tell me what you want to do." It's not even about that. It's just, >> "Dad, I I I can't take out debt for you.

I'm sorry. Good luck with this." >> Dad has a plan. I think if he' asked for details, his dad would have told him a a fish story. I just don't think there's anything there.

Yeah, Paul. Listen, we're having a little bit of fun with what is a really tense situation. I just think you got to take the high road, really high road, but do not have a conversation about it to the to the extent that when you tell him, he you make it clear to him there is no conversation. This isn't like a he gets a shot at a little bit of a negotiation on this.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, honestly, I was just shocked. I didn't react at all. I was just shocked because it's, you know, it's a huge amount of money. >> How will he react? How's he going to react when you tell him no?

Uh, I I'm not sure, but he's not going to be happy. >> Oh, you're sure? That chuckle was a chuckle of experience.

>> Yeah, it's uncomfortable.

>> Come on, man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is tough. >> Sorry, man. I hate that that happened.

That's That's awkward.

>> Yeah, >> it's an awkward situation to get put in.

>> Let me take this above Paul real quick.

Give our audience 20 seconds on why they should never loan family any money as a general principle. Oh, well, what Dave Ramsey would say is it makes Thanksgiving dinner taste different.

I've done it, by the way. I've borrowed money from my mother-in-law, who is a wonderful, generous woman, and it's not on her, it's on you feel it. No matter what, it doesn't matter how great or nice they are. You feel the weight.

Don't do it. >> There you go. Great hour. Jade Warshaw.

Thank you, America, for listening. This is the Ramsay Show.

Heat.

Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Steve is now joining us in Columbia, South Carolina. Steve, how can we help today? >> Yeah, hi Ken. Hi Jade. It's great to be speaking with you guys today. >> Yeah, good to talk to you. >> Um, >> so I've got a uh I'm on the cusp of finalizing a divorce and we came to a mediated settlement >> and as part of it um basically there's a 50/50 split of the 401k but then I also

have to come up with 100,000 in cash in 90 days to buy her out of the house and then additionally there's 150k um

lumpsum alimony payment over five years.

So kind of two questions is basically how would you guys recommend coming with the 100k cuz uh I got some advice from the lawyers that I didn't really appreciate and clearly they weren't part of the Ramsey program and uh and then I

treat the alimony payment going forward.

Do I treat it as a debt in the baby steps or as like a line item in the budget going forward? >> Why don't we address that one first?

Jade, tell them about where that goes in the budget. >> Uh the 150 over five years. Have you calculated it out and seen what that looks like monthly?

>> Yeah. So, about 2500 a month.

>> Can you Can you afford that?

>> And it and it fits. Yeah.

>> Okay, good. So, yeah, that's a line item on the budget. Um, I would do it that way, especially if you can afford it. What's your income?

>> Uh, about 180 a year.

>> Okay, good. >> It ends up being about about like 8 8,000 a month. >> Okay. Okay. So, >> the 100K in 90 days to buy out the house. >> Yeah. Why' you agree to that?

>> Uh so it's it's definitely definitely the house. Uh it's um uh terms of

everything else available in the area.

Uh there's there's no way I'd be getting anything close to this. And um

>> but I'm talking about the the term the time >> like you do you have a hundred do you have $100,000?

>> Yeah. So that's exactly it. I think I think it was a matter of kind of signing it and not really paying attention to that 90 days. Um I've got about 50 55k

in cash right now. >> Okay. Well, that's a good start. How much is your car worth?

>> Uh so, uh not much. So, it's a 2007

Subaru Forester. So, >> what happens if >> Let's come at this thing from another angle. Just I'm trying to figure this out for you. What happens if in 90 days you don't have 100k? What what what is the kick in in the contract? What what the agreement?

>> Uh, so it's just part of the court order, so I I think it'd be going going back back in front of the judge.

>> Mhm. I think that's your best bet. You, this was a this was a bad negotiation on your part or on your lawyer's part because you don't you can't get the money in 90 days. And so when this goes back in front of the court, you need to have a better plan of what that is. Um, >> so >> why why not sell the deal? I was going to say >> the original well the the original thought was uh uh basically kind of part of the quadro from the rest of the 401k.

So my half of the 401k use part of it to be able to pay her off. >> That was your plan.

>> That was the that was the original thought. And then again uh the the lawyers even suggested doing a home equity loan which I flat out just rejected. And he thought that was a bad idea >> because you have to put yourself you have to reverse engineer like you have to reverse the situation and say if I were in any other setting would I borrow from my 401k to buy a house? No, you wouldn't. Would I take out a personal loan, you know, to to up the Annie on my

house? No, you wouldn't. Um, and that's the way I'm looking at it. I think that

you either need to give yourself more time if this is like something that you're like, I love this house. I don't want to give it up. I'm never going to have a house like this again. You either need to give yourself more time. I mean, I've talked to people where there's years to come up with the money. Not that I want you linked to her for that long, but uh Do you have kids?

>> Uh adult kids. So, she's in college now, but Yep. >> Okay. So, where's your ex going? She's just going to go rent somewhere?

>> Uh starting a new career in another state. >> Okay. Here's here I'm going to come back to this because I I now again I've never walked through this before, so Jade and I are kind of on the same page. thinking about you could do maybe a cash out refi. I don't know if there's because you have to take her name off it anyway.

>> I I would sell the house. And do you have any equity in it at all?

>> Yeah. And that's basically what I'm buying buying out of. >> How much equity do you have in the home?

>> Uh about 200k in equity.

>> So why wouldn't you I mean >> I I don't understand given that equity stake that you have. This is just a house and it's got a bunch of pain attached to it. you are single, you got

all this money that you that you're going to have to pay out uh over five years. I I personally, and again, I

don't know what you think about this, but >> I view it a little differently. >> I know. Well, >> I'm giving you another train of thought. I I'm not going to advocate for my point of view. I'm going to say if it were me, I'd sell the house. >> If if Are there kids involved?

>> Exactly what's been going on in my brain. So, >> to sell it.

>> No, no, no, no. Just the back and forth.

So there's Yeah, like you said, there's there's >> I like a clean start in this situation.

>> There's there's that, but then there's also I mean, you did make a good point earlier where you said with the market and when you bought this house, you might not be able to get something like that again. And I do feel that if emotionally there's not the attachment that Ken and

I think there might be and you want to keep the house, yeah, standard is you would refi, get her name off of it, and then you would pull the cash out when you refi, and then she would get her portion. The only reason I kind of disagreed with Ken's sentiment initially is because the h 100,000 is her money.

It's not you giving a h 100,000 of your money at this point now. That is her money because you're separate. So there's a different way to look at that.

It's like I'm just I'm just giving her her money. I'm not giving away my money if that makes sense. Um >> right. >> So that's if you want to do the 90-day

deal, that's how you would get it. Um

but Ken has a good point. Do you really want to be in this house or is it worth it to you to maybe get less house and have a fresh start? That's the question. Only you can answer that. >> Yeah. >> Or rent for a bit. I mean, your life's not over.

>> So, >> yeah, I I definitely know that it's starting starting over, but Yep.

>> Yeah. And it's not over. It's starting over. And so, there's a whole lot of new things coming your way. So, again, I don't want to advocate for it.

>> That may be too aggressive. >> How long were you married? >> You know, >> uh 20 years. >> 20 year. Oh, listen. Ken may have a point. Are the kids? Do you have kids?

>> Yeah, they remember they got the >> Oh, that's right. That's right. >> Is it just one? >> College. Yeah, just one.

>> Yeah, you got your work cut out for you in in terms of sentimental thoughts versus fresh start thoughts.

>> I mean, you make a good >> I've been working through those. >> You make here here's I'm not advocating, but I am going to because I I like when you push back, so keep pushing on this.

But in your shoes, if you sell this house, then you're able to uh pay her

her money and have that done, set aside, put it away, get it over with. That's what I would do. I would I would want a clean break if I could do it. And I'm just looking at the numbers. You're going to have to pay her uh a h 100,000 in 90

days, and then you got 150, which is alimony, over five years. Um that's a

lot of money coming out of your pocket.

It could be nice to have a smaller.

>> And I'm just saying I might rent for a year, reset my life. I don't think renting for 12 months is a bad idea for a guy in your shoes.

>> Get rid of the house. Move on into a new

chapter of life. >> And another Okay, I'm going to throw something else in there. And this is soon, so don't don't be mad at me, but

you'll move on at some point and meet another lovely lady. Do you want to bring her into that house or do you want to bring her into, you know, fresh start, Steve?

>> Yeah. So, we'll see about that one, but sure. >> I I I know I jumped ahead, but do you see what I'm saying? Like there's >> begin with the end in mind is what I'm saying. >> Yeah. I I don't know. I don't know why I feel that way, but that's what I would do in that situation. And just start fresh. You're not wrong. Start fresh.

Get her to the hundred,000. That's her money to your point.

>> And now work on the rest of it.

>> Oh, divorce sucks. take that for you.

>> Yeah, me too.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade. Next to me is Ken Coleman. Taking your calls this hour about your life, your money, uh your business, your relationship, your career, whatever's on your mind. Uh we'll be here to help. Uh we'll go to Los Angeles, California, where we've got AJ on the line. What's going on, AJ?

>> Hi, Jaden. Ken, how are you both doing?

>> Great, if I do say so myself.

>> Yes. What's going on? >> Awesome. Awesome. Um, well, first of all, thank you guys for taking my call.

Um, I'm calling because I'm starting a real estate media business here in California. I'm very excited for it and I have support from friends and family.

Um, ju just the one thing that keeps bothering me, I guess I could say, is just a fear of AI. Um, I have this fear

that AI could essentially replace my work and could make it less valuable.

And I really just wanted your guys' opinion on it. >> Yeah, be more descriptive. uh give me a 30 second description of what your company's service is going to be. What do you do for folks?

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Through real estate. >> There we go. >> It it is a new it is a new company, but um we're we're going to specialize in video work in um in um more lifestyle

work for agents who sell higherend properties just to help like elevate their brand and make it stand out from the rest of the market. >> So, it's you're a production company and you're going to be shooting video of their homes. uh the inside of the homes, outside, making the homes look great, but also making them look like those big shots on those uh on those reality shows. >> Selling sunset. >> Selling. Thank you. Yes. That that's what you're going to do. You're But you're a video production company.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. Uh so AI, how is AI going to

affect the video production industry?

Have you done any homework on this? Have you begun to see trends?

So, I've just seen things where editing

work is being replaced where um a lot of the the background work is being replaced like stuff behind the scenes.

So, I'm just seeing that trickle in into that part of it. Um not really seeing it on the front end front end, but it kind of worries me. >> Well, but let's keep playing this out.

So, I'm leading you down a path here. So if if AI tools allow you to do the

editing or your team to do the editing quicker and better, >> does that replace you or does it enhance your business?

>> I would say it enhances the business.

>> Yes, it does. >> Absolutely it does. If And so what you

have to look at is is >> uh Okay. So, I I had uh I had uh cigars

with a uh very successful movie producer about two weeks ago, Jade, >> and he told me point blank, and this guy

like he's producing the latest Rock movie that's coming out next year. So, this guy's big time.

>> And he said to me and was showing me on his phone a full movie trailer

that was AI start to finish, not one real person in it. >> That's wild. >> All right. Now, I bring this up to say in this case, if I was an actor in the actors unions, and that's already happening, it's why the latest strike happened in large part. What is AI going to is AI going to replace real actors?

Because if you can do a blockbuster action film and not pay an actor 20 million, >> that makes me so mad. I'm getting angry sitting here, Ken. >> So, AI would threaten actors. No question. >> 100%. >> And he told me as much.

I'm getting mad. You cannot replace creat creative people doing creative things. I'm just putting that out in the in the world, not to you. >> And he doesn't want to, by the way. He's not pro that. He's just going >> somebody's going to do it. It's going to be crazy. So, everybody's going to have to adjust is what he All right. Now, >> all connect to it. I'm just saying AJ.

Um, you someone's going to have to always do the filming. Someone's always going to have to consult the realtors on their brand. AI cannot do what a human

doesn't program it to do. Make sense?

>> Yeah. >> So, I would run it through that instead of just letting your fears run wild. Go, wait a second. >> Will the human touch be more needed than ever in my industry? And I think the answer is yes. AI cannot do what you're going to do. And the truth is, let's let's put it through um you know, obviously AI is is new territory for a a

lot of folks, but in essence, in many ways, it's not. Right. There's always been a tool available to do something easier. That's right.

>> And as professionals, we get to decide, are we going to be the person who picks up the tool or not? Right. And so there's always a vacuum cleaner. Some people don't want to vacuum, so they call a housekeeper.

There's always >> Or you get that one that just roves around. >> Yeah, that's right. technology >> Roomba. Yeah.

And so I mean right now there there there are more apps than ever before to make you know uh digital uh digital media and all that kind of stuff. But some people are like I don't want to learn how to use those apps.

do that for them. So the the point is as long as there's tools there's always going to be people who go I don't want to learn how to do that. And you're still going to have the available the ability to do it for Here's what last point on this uh AI folks for our large

audience. >> If you learn how to work with AI and use

AI and also find yourself in industries

where the human touch will always be premium, then you're going to be fine.

>> Yeah, I like that. >> It's going to make us want human more.

>> It is. It really will. >> I, you know, I'm a a creative at heart.

I hate the idea. I hate that I'm hearing music that is by >> I know >> not not real people. Oh, I hate this idea of not real people being actors.

I'm like, people need people. If there's nothing we didn't learn from 2020, it's that people need human touch and human contact and humans create art and art is

a reflection of culture. And there's I can't understand what the world would be like if that continuum was disrupted.

Anyway, this another conversation for another time, but anyway, >> if it gets to that, you'll find me somewhere uh at my own restaurant, James in the Caribbean serving people.

>> Listen, be me up. >> Spinning yarns, telling jokes.

>> Spinning yarns. All right, let's see if Carl has a a yarn to spend in in in

Sacramento.

>> Carl, spin us spin us a spin us a yarn.

>> Okay. All right. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, we can. What's up?

>> Awesome. Um, so, um, uh, I'm, uh, 45

years old, uh, married. Uh, nothing

safer retirement, regrettably. I do not own a home. >> Okay. >> So, currently renting a home. Um, I have

about $250,000 in a high interest savings account. Um,

>> and I started a small business about five years ago, which I currently still own. Uh but obviously getting older without, you know, any uh backup on the

investment or even a home, >> yeah, >> is worrisome. Um so I've and obviously

and I'm married and I don't want to leave my wife without a home or, you know, without some resources in case something were to happen to me. >> Sure. Does she have resources in her name?

>> Um no. Nope.

>> Okay. >> You know, she's she's same situation.

She has a good job, but uh that you know that doesn't last forever. So, >> okay. >> Um, so anyway, uh, so I decided it'd be a good idea to sell my business where it's at, uh, so I can start playing catch-up on some of those important items. >> Okay. If you sold it, what would it bring? >> So, so after taxes, so after I pay

capital gains to Uncle Sam, I'll probably have net about 500,000 um,

left. >> Okay. So, combined with my 250, I'll be

at uh about 750 liquid cash that I can

deploy uh in one direction or the other.

My first thought is >> And then what would you do for work?

>> Uh I'd probably go start another business. Probably the same thing. Um >> and you wouldn't need capital for that.

You could just go right to it.

>> Yeah, I'm still going to have uh a lot of the the purchase isn't he's not going to be purchasing all the assets. So, I'll still have some of the assets. I can literally start the same business.

>> Okay. And what do you think you'd earn?

I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get the numbers before we hit the clock. >> No problem. >> No problem. Obviously, day one, I'd be at zero, but I think I could probably get to about I could probably get to about 4,000 net within six months. Okay.

>> I could probably within a year I could be, you know, comfortably, you know, six six to 7,000 net probably within a year.

>> Okay. Good. >> Um worst worst case scenario if things didn't go well. Um because I am pretty established in my industry, I can go work for another company if I thought things weren't really gaining traction and I could probably get a job pretty easily making, you know, 80 to 100,000.

>> Excellent. So the question is, do you take what do you do with the 750?

>> Exactly. Yep. So I'm in I'm in, as you guys mentioned, I'm in Sacramento, so nothing's cheap in California.

>> Yeah. >> Um and so just a small modest home in my

area, you're looking about 550,000.

>> Okay. Um, well, >> nothing special, but it's, you know, it's a roof over the head and, you know, it's, you know, >> the truth is, uh, you're going in the right direction. I'd want to stabilize.

That's the biggest line item on all of our budgets. It's rent or mortgage. So, I'd want to stabilize that as quickly as possible. You've got the money. If you can pay for something in cash and not have a payment, I love that for you and start investing the rest. When you get this money together, you need to be investing 15% of your gross every single month. This is the Ramsay Show.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade. He's Ken. Give us a call. The show is live. So, if you want to talk to us, call in 8888255225.

We'll take your call about your life, your money, and Ken will hit you up with that career advice. Although, you do jump in in on the money and you do a good job, Ken. >> Oh, yeah. You know, there's a microphone in front of me. That means I'm going to say something >> and it's going to be good. All right.

>> Lee is here. He's from Washington DC, our nation's capital. What's going on, Lee?

>> All right. Thanks so much for taking my call. Um, I was actually calling because

uh I recently yesterday I was laid off from my job and um I was contemplating

if I should pay off my credit card debt

which I was initially going to pay off before I got laid off but I'm I'm wondering if I should just change my priorities. >> What happened?

>> Um the the company so I worked at a startup and uh they just couldn't afford to to continue to pay me. I had honest I had just started that job uh in July July 1st. So it only this is the first month. >> Um I got the job through internship because I was interning with them for two months and then they hired me on and now they've uh they've laid me off because they couldn't afford to pay.

>> Well, first of all, I'm sorry about that. That uh that stinks and um and

it's happened to all of us. Uh what were you doing for them?

>> Uh software sales. Okay. So, I was a sales development representative.

>> How what's your confidence level? I'm sure your brain has been running 100 miles an hour. What's your confidence level of getting another sales job um or

something else in that field or or just anything? What's your confidence level in the next 30, 60, 90 days?

Um, I'd say in the next

I I think that I could confidently say that I could be placed in in the in the same role with a different company at least in the next uh 60 days.

>> Can you survive from a cash standpoint?

What's your cash situation, your bills and everything that you you've got responsibilities for?

>> I do. Um, yeah, I can survive right now.

Yeah, I have um about

four months of expenses saved.

>> Do you have any debt besides the credit card? >> Yes. >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, >> Jade, walk me through that whole situation >> in this situation. I hate that you got laid off. Um and you're kind of in a a a

transition and so we would tell you to pause uh the baby steps. So, for all

intents and purposes, you're on baby step two, which is you have debt and you need to clear out your consumer debt.

And so because this kind of storm has happened, we'd say pause that. Stack up as much cash as you have. It sounds like you have four months of expenses, but you also have debt. And so if I were you, I'd continue to make the minimum payments on all your debt because you want to stay current. You want to stay on top of things, but I wouldn't pay anything over it until you land that next position.

>> Okay? >> And can I please, please, please, please

ask you to get to work very quickly. It

doesn't even mean, you know, if you've got some things that are working uh in the industry, that's fine. Play out the interview process, but I would be doing some type of part-time job or maybe something full-time until I had something something that's just a gig kind of a thing, the gig economy, you know, and keep keep income coming in.

Here's why. Let's say that this thing plays out like you think it's going to.

And within 60 days, uh you're you're back and up and working. And now all of a sudden we're right back in the baby steps like Jay just told you. And now that four months worth of expenses is all going towards the debt.

>> But I want you to keep income coming in in this time. That's where you actually turn a really sucky situation >> into a uh better situation by going,

"All right, I got laid off. That sucks.

Uh taking a pay cut, but I'm at least bringing money in." And Jade, if he could, let's say, make enough money in a gig to take care of his four walls, and I'll let you explain that, then I like his position once he gets back up on the horse. >> That's excellent. Matter of fact, I might keep a little bit of the gig while I get back on the horse so that you can pay off this debt as quickly as possible cuz that's the goal. I want you to when once you land the job, the money that you have in savings, I want you to use that to pay off the debt.

That's the baby steps.

You stash it away. That's your starter emergency fund. Baby step two is you pay off all of your debt except your mortgage using whatever extra money you have laying around. And to Ken's point, side hustling and doing all those other things. So, you said you have four months of expenses. At this point, if I were you, that money goes to the debt.

And then after the debt is cleared up, you save back up that four months of expenses or up to six months if you wanted to. And then you move on from there and you start investing at baby step four. So that's how I would run this if I were in your shoes. Very good call. Uh let's go to Maggie. She's in Tampa, Florida. What's going on, Maggie?

>> Hi. Thank you for calling for taking my call. >> You got it. >> Um I'm getting a Yeah, I'm getting a little like anxious. We were My

husband's 76 and I'm 69 and we just

bought a house. We wanted to downsize from the one that we had that was bigger. Mhm. >> And I'm getting a little anxious because the house is taking a little long to sell. It's been on the market for 6 months. >> So, you sold one. You moved into another house before you sold the other one.

>> Yes. >> Mama. Oh, >> and so are you about to be paying two mortgage payments?

>> No, no, no. The other one is paid off.

>> Okay, good.

>> The one that we're selling is paid off.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, we we thought it would sell really fast, but with the market the way it's going, it's been a little longer on the market. >> How long? >> And that's 6 months.

>> What What is your real estate agent telling you about your current listing price?

>> Oh, we we just lowered it some.

>> How when was >> it was at 575 and we just uh lowered it

to 569. >> Okay. So, I just saw this headline today. Today, uh we're seeing the

Florida housing market begin to contract

a little bit because it was exploding.

Uh and now we're seeing it contract. In fact, many people feel like it was overpriced, overheated. And so, uh

you're in Tampa, which is the Tampa area, which is certainly one of the better markets >> uh in Florida. So, I think if you've got a really good real estate agent, and if you don't, I would highly recommend uh that you go to ramiesolutions.com/agent and talk to some of the the trusted pros there on that site that we know. Uh because in this current market, I think patience is the game.

>> And and and and listen, six months for a

house listed in Tampa, I don't think that's crazy if your pricing is right.

If your pricing is right. >> Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

I agreed. Tell me tell me is there anything on fire though? Because of course everybody wants their house to sell. Was the plan to take the proceeds from this sale and put it on your current house or did you buy your new house? And >> tell me more about that. >> No, I put I put some down. So we owe

326,000 because the house was 430.

>> Okay. >> So we just want to we just want to pay the house. We don't want to have that.

We don't want to pay the bank any interest. >> Sure. But you're not >> We didn't have to. But what Jade's asking you is, are you in a financial squeeze because this thing has not sold yet?

>> No, we're not. >> All right, then then be patient. This is all about making sure your pricing is right and then just hold. >> Yeah, just hold. I I definitely don't want you to uh put a price that's too

low because you're anxious and you just want to move it. You know, you're not >> I agree with that. >> You're not everything must go. You're not in that mo in that mode.

So, just, you know, you got to know when to hold them. >> Sit tight. Uh, I'm going to do a little bit of fork. I'm no real estate pro, but I, as you know, I pay way too much attention to the headlines.

>> Okay, forecast for us, kid. >> Uh, I'm I'm I'm I'm pay attention to what the Fed is doing and what they're saying. Uh, we are in a presidential election. Uh, I would not be surprised given where we are right now.

We're seeing unemployment tick back up over 4 point uh I think it's 4.1 the latest the latest job report, last month job report. We're starting to see a softening in the labor market. All of this in a presidential election.

Jerome Pal is on record as saying we've

got to raise interest rates and it is going to cause pain in the employment market and pain in the employment market. Okay. And then when we see interest rates high for the home industry, mortgage rates, this creates a

cooling of consumer demand of course >> and consumer confidence which in then in turn theoretically >> theoretically >> drops inflation. Well, the >> So, all that to say, >> make it lay put it in more lay layman's terms because the cooling is happening because everybody's holding on to their money. >> That's exactly right. Okay.

>> And so, what's happening is people are also sitting and waiting to see what happens in the next quarter or the fourth quarter as it relates to mortgage rates. I think you're going to see a slight rate cut in the third or fourth quarter. And I think you'll start to see people move back into the housing market. So, I would sit tight if I'm in a position where I'm I'm listing.

I'm going to list it and stay with it. But I think you're going to see an increase in home sales as we look to the end end of the year. >> All right. I love that because that's been the issue.

Not enough homes on the market. Not enough supply to meet the demand. You heard it first. You heard it here from Ken Coleman.

Let's see. Is he correct.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. The phone number is 888255225.

Our scripture of the day comes from Luke. Luke 9:23. Then he said to them all, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." Our quote is

from Mitch Albam. One half of knowing what you want is knowing what you must give up before you get it.

>> Okay. >> Sounds like a recipe for getting out of debt. >> Uhhuh. >> Taking control of your life in any area.

All right, let's get to the phones. Laura is in Columbia, South Carolina.

Laura, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I was listening to y'all during the pandemic. When y'all were talking about community college, I took y'all's advice, went to community college, got a merit scholarship to university. I'm a senior, but thing is is I'm disabled.

I've never worked a day in my life. Um, most jobs are not available for me to do, and I've always known I'd have to work with my brain instead of my body.

>> Um, I'm scared to, um, enter the workforce. And as a consequence of putting my all into college, I accidentally won a fellowship um that affords me the right to go to almost any state school and even Ivy Leagues if I wanted to. >> Wow. Wow. I don't know if I don't know if I should give up disability, go to

grad school, or stay on disability

or no, excuse me, uh g give up disability um and enter the workforce um and don't take up the scholarship and don't go and don't pursue my education and continue it further or um I don't

know what my disability, I give up my income. >> All right, I'm so glad you called. Um, do you mind telling us what is what is your disability and how and what kind of work can you do because you've obviously done an incredible job in school and you're very bright. So, what are your limitations?

>> Um, I have a genetic bone and joint disorder. Um, it also causes me to faint. If you're familiar with El Danor syndrome and postural orthotic tardia, I have those. Um, I can't stand or sit for long periods of time. I do most of my classes on the computer.

>> Um, so I would be looking for a job um in local, regional, government or nonprofit work. >> Okay, let me ask you this. >> Remote. >> Okay, let me ask you this. If you did not have those physical limitations,

knowing what you know about yourself, what would be something that you would love to try professionally or something you know you'd enjoy doing?

Um, I would like to work for the state or federal government on education policy.

>> So, you really love education policy.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um, and

if you were to get one of those jobs, c

can you do that remote or can or would you have to do like because I'm thinking state government jobs and those those are not remote. Have you have you looked into that?

I have um that's the pipe dream. The realistic dream is a remote job for a nonprofit somewhere I failed to mention.

I have no debt. Um but if I took the scholarship, it would cover 75% to

almost any state or Ivy school.

>> All right. So, let's dream here. What if you what if you just picked an Ivy League school? Um assuming again you

could do everything online. Yes.

>> Um a few. Yeah.

>> Okay. That's what I thought. So, what would that that higher ed degree be?

What what would you get? A master's, PhD, >> Masters of Public Policy. >> Okay. You know who you are.

>> 100%. >> And I love that. You love policy. And you're talking to a policy wonk. Okay. I mean, I'd make Jade's eyes roll back in her head if I start talking policy. And James would turn my mic off. I know what you I know you. I see you. I hear you, Laura. So, I'm going to tell you something. Uh, it's 2024. I'd like to see you before you make either decision

because you you kind of asked Jade and I. Okay. Should I do this, this, or this? Um, I think you need to do some more research here and and I think the research is solely around if I were to

to take those scholarship that scholarship offer and I were to get that masters in public policy uh with my

physical limitations.

Uh, is there a way? I would want to know

that. I would want to know the multiple ways. You You understand what I'm saying when I say it that way?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. I'd want to know that first.

Now, I'm going to say something else.

I also think that the timing is right,

and I think you're going to have to work at this because I think there's some small-minded people that would hear about your situation and they would consider that a polite nuisance.

But I think there's some big-minded, big-hearted people who would go, "You know what? Let's figure out a way to do this." You know what I mean? Because I understand for you the the idea that you could faint at any moment, that's that's very very humiliating for you, I'm guessing. Correct.

>> Right. >> Yeah. So, um,

so you have to be 100% remote. Is that correct? Or is that just the preference?

>> I'm trying to work every day on physical therapy. Um, right now I could pro I'm

not even going to say I think I could hold down a part-time job cuz I don't think I could >> just physically >> right if it was remote maybe. But um I'm

trying my best. But >> can I tell you something? How did you >> undergrad degree I've got is worthless.

>> Yeah, I know. But I think it proves something to you. How many hours a day were you putting into the undergrad work?

>> Sometimes 15. Usually about 10.

Sweetheart, if you can put 10 hours into

a undergrad degree from home, you can put eight hours into a job from home.

>> 100%. There's nothing different. It's you standing at a computer. It's you taking calls. It's you flipping books.

It's you highlighting things. It's you reading all of those things.

I mean, am I wrong? >> No. That's why I brought in Jade. I wanted to see if my colleague is hearing what I'm hearing. >> I just hear a freaking workhorse >> who doesn't believe that she can actually do it. But you've actually already done it, I guess, is what we're trying to say to you.

>> I'm scared to enter the workforce cuz I'm afraid that I'm going to give up all my benefits and I'm going to be homeless cuz I can't find Here we go. >> Okay, now we're getting somewhere. But you can acknowledge to us that you can work eight hours a day remote. Yes or no?

>> With my brain 100%.

>> That's what we're saying. Yeah, you've already been doing it. You've proven the You've proven it. >> We're on We're on team Laura right here.

We're trying to cheer you up. So, let's talk about the fear piece. Okay. You have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund?

>> Um, no. I I have about $40 in my bank

account and that's usually where it sits. >> Okay. And what is your benefit? What's your uh disability payment coming into you every month?

>> About $1,500. I live out the school food pantry. >> Okay. All right. So, >> I'm on public housing. >> Um, Jade, let's do the calculator here.

I'm going to I'm going to have Jade help me out here. So, if she's making somewhere between $18 to $22 an hour,

let's just do $20 an hour just for round numbers. >> Uh because with your with your skill set, um >> so you do the math, 20 times 40.

>> Uh and so you're going to be here's my point. You're going to be making more than your disability payout. And you're going to we're going to teach you how to build an emergency fund and and we can

walk alongside of you. I want to get you set up with one free session with one of our financial coaches to help you see what my path looks like as I begin to make real money and you're not going to be homeless. See, that's one of the thing about that disability payment. It will make you feel like I can't ever get rid of it when what it's really doing is holding you back.

That's right, Jade. Thoughts on that? >> It's the ultimate crutch. I think that taking a taking out of the equation the things that you want to do and what you love to do.

You can be remote and you can make the >> the money that Ken is talking about, $20 an hour, 40 hours a week, you know, four weeks out of the month and bring home $3,200 instead of 1,500. So, I think that just

opening up your mind and going, okay, like there's there's possibilities here.

You coming up with work on your own, figuring out other things that you could do uh within the parameters of what you enjoy doing. I think there's a lot of options out there. I think fear is blinding you from seeing all of those options. But you're more than capable,

beyond capable. You've proven that. So, that part is a that's been established.

>> I wonder, Laura and Jade, what's the timeline? Um, maybe she gets a job and she stacks some money. How soon would you have to say yes or no to these scholarships?

>> Um, with I would say before February. I would graduate in May and I would have to move out of state by June.

>> I'm going to challenge you. We did this once before. You started off the call saying that you heard us tell you to go to community college. You did it. You crushed it. Here's the next challenge.

Go get one of these remote jobs that Jade is talking about. Could be customer service. Could be anything. Let's just stack some money and just prove to oursel how much money we can make before February and then make your decision.

Laura, we believe in you. You're crush.

>> Good hour. Jade Warshaw. Always fun to be with you, my friend. Thanks James Charles and our fearless band of merry men behind the glass. This is the Ramsay show.

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## 153. Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances | (Best-Of for March 21, 2025)


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:15:57 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today what up what up this is the ramsy

show I'm John deloney joined by the

great George camel live from Nashville

Tennessee we are taking your calls on your money Building Wealth doing work

that you love and creating and

sustaining and hanging on to great

relationships so glad that you're with

us today we're taking live calls 8825

5225 it's 8825 5225 we have a packed

house out here in the audience good to see everybody coming to visit us here in

uh actually we're in Franklin just north of Nashville but we are glad you are

with us as well let's go out to Milwaukee no no no no let's go out to

Dallas dton and talk to Cyrus hey Cyrus

what's up man hello how you doing doing

outstanding my man what's up

um so yes um I am 26 um I have

$160,000 worth of debt and I am

wondering if I should file for chapter

seven uh

bankruptcy why' you jump to that conclusion what makes you think you can't crawl out of

this well um I've been working um a lot

two jobs um constantly um not really

able to get anywhere um recently about a

year ago I caught a case um for a felony

charge and um I am still going on

actively with that case trying to get

probation um so it's been very difficult

for me to find another job now that my

background check is shown a felony

charge um so what are you doing now for

work yeah so I'm working on Amazon um

I'm making about $4,100 a month at a minimum um I

can potentially make more depending on

um if they allow me to get overtime or

work um a six day I'm working five days

there as of right now okay um last year

I made last year I made 60,000 off of it

I'm off of Amazon loan um but I'm

just like drowning right now with with

payments and um I I did

um I I rounded up all my minimum

payments for all my loans and and

everything and uh my minimum is

$5,300 whoa a month and that's just on

minimum payments That's not including

food or um or rent or anything else how

have you made it so far what's getting you through every month if you're going

underwater um so how did I make it so

far well I've been doing um are you going further into debt every month no

no so I I'm tapped out I I can't even

get the debt consolidation loan my credit is shot what kind of debt is this

what is this debt man can you break down the 160 yeah so I have um a a vehicle that's

um 51,000 old left on it um

51,000 yeah it's a Tesla Model y

performance oh not a Tesla what's it

worth yeah

35,000,000 35,000

okay what else um I have nine credit

cards that um a total of $55,000 worth

the debt on that okay and then um and then I have

the rest of my loans which is 90 98,000

which is three um personal loans and

then my auto loan your other what my

auto loan auto loan you have another auto loan no no no it's it's the test

loan okay so you got 51k on the car nine

credit cards that are 55k and then the

other what is that another 50 or 60 is

in personal

loans um no so total with the car it's

98 so it would be another like 40 in

personal okay what what did all this

money go what have you been spending

on so we're talking 100K in just

spending yeah to make a long story short

um I I as I mentioned I had a

three-year-old daughter I I got in I was

in a relationship with this woman um basically she was unfaithful

with me we broke up um ever since then

I've been trying to honestly repair our

relationship for our child and also

because you know it's a woman that I

love and care about

well long story short it's been years of

non-stop um taking on her Debs um you

know paying you know for food and

basically basically living like two households the whole time um and yeah

basically just so she's been scamming

you for this I mean she's been just leeching off you all this time huh yes

yes and now you know recently I got you

know we you know uh I moved we basically

broke up again and I'm left with all

this and I just she doesn't want to make

it work and I've been continuing trying

to make it work for my child and it I

just this is where I'm at now making it work for your

child is different than digging a $150

$160,000 hole trying to impress a

girl yeah those are two different things

and you have lied to yourself for the last two or three years saying I'm quote unquote doing this for the baby but

you've been running around like a like with your peacock feathers out trying to

trying to woo this woman and man she's

been just happy to take your money happy to take all your your stuff but it was

it wasn't about that girl and now again

I think you love your daughter I think you're I think you're working as hard as you can but man you got to let the fantasy of this woman go it's it's burying you what's this felony chargeing

about so it was um she had a guy in my

apartment for the second time um all

right Let's do let's let's do this let's stop there I don't I don't want you to say something that's going to get sub painted on the air let's just roll back to the money part is that cool yeah are

you living alone right

now so I I was but going back between my

parents and her um I was in my car for a

month um last month I was in for a whole

month um just because I couldn't go back

to either one um so now I am back with

my parents they you know they stopped

drinking supposedly so um I'm there for for now

and and this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy just because I have a case going on I'm unstable

household you know I can't rely on

nobody right now I'm a worker I I like

you know two years ago I made you know

93,000 working doubles uh when I mean

I've been working non-stop two jobs for

the last three years but bro if you if you if you make 98 three years in a row

you're out no no not years in year no no

no no I'm telling you like I want you to

hear George and I say we believe in you

if you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling uhuh you'll be out you'll be

free yeah listen to me you'll be free if

you file bankruptcy you're putting a chain around

your neck and you're jumping into a

lake yeah the the problem I have is I've

been applying for jobs in my record with

the felony Char I got it I got it it's

very the de the deck is is firmly

stacked against you until you get that cleared 100% yeah but I have never one time um

I've I mean I've never

uh the guy who mows my lawn I don't know

if he's got to fill any charge he just does a great job right I mean there's work to be had it's not traditional work and it's not fun work and it is hard grinding hot cold work but there's work what do you think George yeah there's no shortcuts here we got to get your income up ASAP I would not file bankrupt a

you're you can get out of this but it's going to take 3 years of hustle throwing

50 Grand at the debt and that means getting that income up and man you're going to have to get creative you might have to get a roommate or two keep LM with the parents do what you got to do but do not throw that chain around you

just yet what does the future hold for

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Ramsey welcome back to the ramsy show

I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney open phones at

8825 5225 Tammy's on the line from Tampa

Florida Tammy welcome to the show hi thank you sure how can John and

I help well I I'm just needing some

assistance with uh stopping giving my

ex-daughter-in-law

money okay I have an awesome tip for

this before you even ask your question

yeah okay you ready yep go ahead all

right do you have a pen and paper you can write this down sure you you'll remember it okay

all right stop giving your uh

ex-daughter-in-law

money that was incredible I would it

that was genius incred Tammy don't let don't fall for it

so why can't you stop giving her money um well I did I I've been giving

her money for a long time trying to help her because she a long time and how much

um since my husband died in September

and probably about

$4,000 total four grand since September

yeah I've paid her rent since January it's $800 a month where's your son in

this um he is not in the picture at all

so he is paying support in your life or

hers he's paying her child support $25 a

week oh okay a week where where is

he uh he's in North Carolina and he's

dropped out of her life or everyone's

life is he legally supposed to be paying

more than $25 a week no that's what the

courts awarded him so he's Indigent he's

not working is he struggling with addiction pretty bad um not addiction he's a trans gender

so he's not he's just not in the picture

at all okay he just dropped out of his life so are you are you giving money because you feel guilty a lot of it is yeah I I well

because she's a single mom I don't want

I don't want her to go under and this is

your grandchild still it's not an exg

grandchild it's still your grandchild

yeah she's raising my grandchild I gave

her a car I gave her my car and then I

bought a car so that she would have a reliable vehicle um because she was

going under with the youth car dealership sure well if you want to keep

giving her money then why do you want to stop giving her money I don't have it anymore I have I'm

59 I want to retire someday and I can't

just keep giving her money but the latest was Sunday night when she messaged me that she's going to be

evicted if I don't help her pay her rent

is she working full-time she works two

jobs she gets food stamps job support

she no longer has a car payment I mean she's I don't know where her money's

going here's the deal though unless you

want to file with the child protective services in that local area and take custody of this kid because the kid's not safe where her money goes isn't any

of your business and I know that's hard to hear but it's not yeah and she you've

been giving her money thousands and thousands of dollars and you have probably had a ton of conversations

about your son who's transitioned like

you've had tons of conversations with her yall are close and she she's going to keep calling you in the middle of the night cuz she knows you'll bail her out of whatever situation she finds herself

in yeah and so until you say upfront hey

I don't have enough money for me and so

from this point forward um or here's the

last $500 I got and this is it and she's

going to call you again because she doesn't believe you and you're going to have to hold firm to that boundary you're going to have to be sad you have to be upset you're going to have to be angry at your child you have to be angry you have to be frustrated all of it but you don't have any money to give

y That's thank you yeah and it seems

like there's a lack of trust on your part because you don't know what she's doing with this money and you don't think it's going to the things you want it to go

to that's sort of correct I don't I

don't understand she she works like two

towns over it's an hour away why not get

a job closer to home why not I I just

don't know where her money's going and it's always an excuse and I'm just tired

of the excuses

I just don't want my granddaughter out on the street and now she's going to be evicted in three days are you in a position to um take temporary custody of

your granddaughter for a while I I've

told her yes she can come stay with me I

I mean I haven't done anything legally I'm not sure what I need to do legally but I've told her I can put up my

granddaughter I just um I can't have her

in my house sure of course you know what

dides she say to that I'm I'm waiting for a response I

just sent her her a long message today saying no let's stop communicating in messages cuz that's how that's how my teenage son communicates with his friends and we're adults and this is too big of a deal let's make phone calls okay okay just pick up the phone and

call and say I'm GNA come pick up my

granddaughter and she can stay here until you get on your feet again if that's what you feel like you need to do okay I like that I think I

agree with that and she may say I hate you and I can't believe this or you may bail her out for 3 weeks and then she'll come over to the house and say oh my gosh she took my kit like who knows what's going to happen to the back into this deal but at least for 3 weeks that little girl's got a safe place to put her head that's what I want I just want her

to be safe yeah just I'm not trying to

take her child away I just want her to get on her feet and of course wasting

money of course but listen you don't get

any say into her budget you don't get any say into where she lives and where she works that stinks but you just don't

right yeah I know and it we want the man

I can't even imagine being in the situation you're in but just because it

hurts doesn't mean it's

wrong you don't have a pain-free path

forward here you're going have to choose

the one that's going to hurt and also lead you to where you want to be which is right now a safe place for your daughter and you you're bleeding cash that you don't have and have you grieved your husband uh your husband's

loss um yeah I

mean it's you know it it's I think that

maybe it's just being taken advantage of

since my husband's passed okay

it's um it's tough yeah you know and he

would he would probably he's rolling over in his grave seeing me give her

money it's okay hey you you went through

a period of having to survive and you're still breathing and you're good and now we're going to start making some some harder and firmer and

more um safe and rational choices right

yes yeah forgive yourself man I I can't

my life would end if my wife passed away

it would stop and I would hope to give

myself some Grace on what I did the next

few months it would just be I just can't even wrap my head around that so I'm going give you some give yourself some Grace you've been trying to keep your uh

your family afloat as it's kind of drifting apart from you thank you I'm proud of you

okay thank you and now you got to put your oxygen mask on and make sure you're

in a stable enough place so that if you do end up having to take custody over this little granddaughter or whatever you choose to do or your child comes

home whatever you got to do um you're

going to be at a more stable place to do

that I agree okay I'm proud of you and

uh George this the one thing I always tell parents in this situation is don't

um don't pull a gotcha meaning if you've

been giving money for month after month after month after month and it's up to thousands of dollars in my opinion that

warrants a conversation not just an overnight cut off right um because

somebody has begun to lean on that money

and you have shown up time and time and time again it's worth a conversation and

that can be an uncomfortable one um cuz

she's going to say hey this is it I don't have any more money oh it's just going to let us like it's all her fault right I can't control how your budget how you spend any of that stuff I'm just telling you I don't have any more money right it's worth that conversation and then you got to hold those boundaries firm because those waters are coming we're going to see if they're going to hold it's so hard and I know a lot of

people not this particular situation but

a lot of people are going through some version of this where they're trying to

be a good nice person it's turned into

this enabling they have to have the hard boundary conversation and it's a close

person in their life how do you even

begin that well I'll take it one step

further it's not only like we talk on

the show we often oversimplify it right like you just cut that person off what if I cut that person off and they have my granddaughter who's four right like

it it complicates things and so like

like we talked about in that call what's

the end goal the end goal here is I can't give you any more money and the end goal is I need my granddaughter safe okay then maybe she's going to have to come live with you for a couple of weeks cuz that's the only option right is anybody want that no but that's that's

the next right thing so I think it's it's sometimes it's as simple as telling your 25-year-old kid like you got to move out of the basement often it's

sitting down and saying okay what's the best thing for the children involved in this deal and what's the reality my

financial reality I don't have more money I can't give you anything else um or I'm going to have to be calling you for money and you got to make those those hard decisions and think through all the ramifications of that but none

of it is easy and I think we all want an easy path none of it's easy it's all hard and you got to go do it anyway

so good well Tammy thanks for the call we're wishing the best for you hope this ends up with a good situation for you and your granddaughter this is the Ramsey Show we'll be right back I've

been doing this show for over 30 years

and some of the saddest calls I have

taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills I'm next week yeah in the

middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reuping it

because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if

something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them

and taking the time to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza the really is so that is one thing oh to do

to say I love you to your family so

we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many

years including of course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com welcome back to the Ramy show

I'm John delone joined by George camel

8825 5225 that's 888 825 52

25 selling a house the Ramsay way makes

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agent all right let's go out to Charlotte North Carolina and talk to Mt

what's up Matt how we doing good how are you we're partying

brother how can we help

man so I sort of uh had like one

question so I'm not like an avid watcher

of the Ramsey show but I see a lot of

Clips online where you guys talk about

mutual funds and investing in mutual funds I was wondering why do you recommend mutual funds over index funds

great question man how old are you 21 lovely and are you investing right

now yeah I've been investing since I was

15 oh my goodness dudee that's amazing

who taught you that um my dad taught me a little bit

and I read about it nice what have you

been investing in for the past six

years um so I I was doing like um mostly

mostly index funds but um I like to play

around do some stock picks but you know obviously not a lot of not a big portion

of my uh portfolio goes towards that

okay are you working

full-time uh yeah I'm in marketing nice

that's amazing okay and how much are you investing as a percentage of your gross

household income uh probably like 25 30% oh my

goodness okay so you're going to be a

multi-millionaire regardless of this

conversation that happens next can we agree on that yeah where do you live

Matt um right outside of Charlotte no no

no like do you have your own PL your own house house you on an apartment you living with Mom where you living no I

still live with with with my mom at home

okay all right cool how much do you make

a year yeah um 80 to 90 oh my goodness dude

you're crushing it so you're we're talking you're investing like 18,000 a

year yeah and you've got a 401k through

your employer no I use a Roth IRA okay so

what happens after you Max that out

I just put in a regular brokerage okay

great so let's talk about index funds versus mutual funds and for the for the listener sake if they're like what are these goober nerds talking about index

funds are basically passively managed mutual funds so still a giant group of stocks but it's tracking an index

basically a set list of companies

whereas the mutual funds that are actively managed has an investment manager that is selecting the funds that

make the list can get let's go even simpler for guys like me when you say

indexed they're indexed and and they're

passively managed so index there's no

one running the show it's just a set list they pick I'm making these 500

there's 500 companies the largest US companies and if they go up then the index fund goes up and if they just all go down then the index fund kind of goes

down and over time we hope these companies just keep getting bigger and growing and then can companies fall off

to S&P 500 and new ones pop in yes so

the whole thing should be just going up over time exactly and so index funds

means nobody's driving it's just following whatever the autonomous vehicle of the investing world you like

that you just ruined it I know there we

go excellent okay okay is that a good summary Matt cuz you know about this stuff as just as much as we

do yeah and um I mean one thing that's

sort of um sort of important to like note is that mutual funds sort of have

built-in fees right you know what I mean

correct like there there's builtin fees

there's an investment manager there's people to pay because this is their job to to run these exactly so they do have

fees the perks of the index funds as you

know diversification which mutual funds have low expense ratios which index

funds have and predictability and you know every investing Rose Has Its Thorn for for starters your index funds won't beat the market because it represents the market

is that makes sense so you you'll settle for the average of the market you can never beat it the goal of the mutual

fund is that that investment manager is picking is hand selecting funds based on

tons and tons of research that they're doing every day day in and day out in

order to attemp to beat it so let's say the market does 10% well the goal of the

mutual fund is to do 12% or

14% now right as we know they won't hit

that goal every year we don't have a crystal ball we can agree on that do you

do you have do do you look for specifics

in a mutual fund to to try to to try to

hit those funds because I know 80% of

mutual funds don't beat the market no

that's actually factually incorrect Morning Star did this article and they said nearly 57% of mutual funds these

active us Equity Funds they beat the

average Index Fund Pier over the 12

months through June 2023 so that means

six out of 10 mutual funds beat the

index wait over how long over that 12-

month period year they looked at here's

what mutual funds did here's what the the peer Index Fund did six out of 10

beat the index fund right but why are you looking at a

12-month period versus like you know decades you can't look at decades and it's going to change depending on the decade you look at and the the truth is

there's going to be mutual funds that don't beat the index and there's going to be years the index beats the mutual funds and so the goal here is to

slightly beat the copycat of the stock

market which is the index fund and so

the index funds also do have a fee you'll see it listed as a 12b one fee

and so that kind of makes up for for the

fact the U mutual fund fees there so

it's not exactly free and here's the thing we're not anti- index funds there's a time and place in fact Dave Ramsey invests in index funds outside of

retirement you have that taxable brokerage account right yeah Dave would say index funds

are the smart play there because of the low turnover they're not moving things around as much which makes the fees less

but in retirement you're not having to

pay those fees because you're not worried about turnover because this is a long-term play and therefore he invest

in mutual funds for his retirement accounts index funds outside of retirement so there's a time and place for both what do you look for in a

mutual fund though well there's a lot of

pieces of it uh including you know rate

of return the expense ratio what the

fund is made up of who the fund manager

is have they switch the investment team

recently you know if it's been doing great for 30 years and all of a sudden they switch the crew well that's something you want to look out for because things might change and we

actually covered this in depth Matt in our investing Essentials live stream and

I it's not currently available but just

for you I'm going to send you a link to

watch that for free how's that

sound good but um isn't that sort of um

inevitable I mean if if a mutual fund

has a 30-year history with one manager

and I'm 21 and I want to invest for another 30 years you know isn't there

pretty much a guarantee that um the fund

manager is going to change the fund management team sure over time you know

things may change but what you're looking for is that longer term track record and so we we're not going to choose a fund that's been around for a year we prefer the one that has a track

record of 10 or 15 that's have the same

team with the same record of success but

dude that's like saying I don't want to

root for the Yankees or the Astros

because they're going to have different players in a few years Theo the goal is

you hope that they have guiding principles and they have the same desire

to win and they have the same Integrity

over time some teams are better at

Integrity than others with the teams I

just I just labeled I know Kelly's looking at me not the upet but you see what I'm saying like yeah the fund manag is going to roll over but it will change over time man here's the deal we can argue all day and I can tell you like this but you can be a multi-millionaire just from your index funds you don't have to ever touch a mutual fund if you don't want or going to still be friends

you're doing great the key is your savings rate that's the key that's

what's holding people back from having money it's not the discussion of index versus Mutual that's for another time

but for the everyone else listening just freaking invest be like Matt at 21 years

old invest 18 Grand a year you're going

to have money in retirement regardless of where you put it and for what it's worth George and I both put our money in

mutual funds call me a dummy and me too

they they do George they Callies we'll be right back all right Dave you have some strong opinions possibly yeah I think so okay

because you really prefer Credit Unions

over big Banks well Credit Unions for

one thing are uh nonprofit which means

that the members the customers own the

credit union so any profits that the

credit union makes goes back into

customer pricing so you get better

interest rate on savings cheaper checking and so on that kind of thing and and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit

on the credit unions so I find very few

Credit Unions that aren't very customer Centric well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's

Fairwinds they are an incredible Credit

Union that is really out with the heart to help the customer they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really

good job with customer service and um

the deals that they're offering they're Ramsey tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and I love that they encourage getting out of debt they encourage 15-year mortgages I mean it's

like the things that we teach they so

line up with and you're right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an

account and I'm not kidding it took less than 5 minutes it was so userfriendly

like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says Fair wins on my phone so I answered it and talked to

someone there and they said yeah they give calls to every new customer and so

again they just really care about your

experience and I I so so appreciate that

plus anything that you can do at a traditional Branch you can do with them

at fairwinds.org or on their app and

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this is a big deal talk to our friends

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checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe you

guys it's incredible yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live so go to fairwinds.org

Ramsey this is the Ramsey Show I'm

George Campell joined by Dr John deloney

this hour open phones at

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have to keep spreading hope in a world

filled with a lot of noise and distractions and hopelessness and so we

try to displace all of that with shows like this and we appreciate all of your help getting the word out Lester is up

next in Dallas Texas how can we help you

Lester hi there uh I was calling to see

about some advice on how to talk with my

wife about saving more than spending my

wife's a spender I'm a saver and we're

aligned on our goals but she just spends

a lot of things here and there and so

just some advice on that was there like a spit Shake on hey here's how much we're going to spend here's what the budget says stick to

it yeah we we've budgeted out a lot of

different things uh we even have it split to where we have our own fund money where it's like a hundred bucks a month that we can spend it on whatever

we'd like but um there's a lot of gifts

and celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family

um and then just things add up very

quickly um and then things are

gone is this a communication challenge

or is your wife being spiteful because

there's two different ways to approach

this I I don't think it's I don't think

it's either um my my wife and I

communicate very very well okay um and

frequently about it but and I don't think she's being very spiteful at all she she agrees that um we need to be

saving and we want the we want the

things we want where house and being

able to retire as both of our families

um aren't in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their 50s and 60s um and we don't want to do

that but she just kind of forgets about

the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there or 100 bucks

here and it just kind of adds up and so

if there's anything that we can do

to try try something different because

we've tried like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that but

obviously I don't want her stranded so she has access to a card that um is has

access to the main main fund for gas and

all that kind of stuff but are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used no no no

um we only have debit cards um I I hate

credit I always have um but yeah we only

use debit cards Mo most I I don't mean

to overly gender this but this is just the way it plays out in the real world

most most of the time when I talk to men in your situation they try to solve this

with a plan a

strategy a new card a new spreadsheet a

new commitment

ceremony and the only way I've ever seen

somebody be successful is if they are honest with

their spouse about the story behind the

story the story behind the

strategy MH and that would be you

sitting down and saying

I need to be uh open with you can I tell

you something that's scaring me to

death and her say oh sure honey what's

going on and you say I'm scared about

not having any money and I'm feeling

like um I'm not communicating this well

because every month there's another $250

in gifts and stuff like that and $20

increments and I don't feel like I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm being fully honest here at

the table and you notice I did two things here number one I was honest I told you told her how you felt you didn't throw a strategy at her and

number two you used the word I not you

keep over spinning and you keep doing that because when she does that man she's going to go back to her childhood she's gonna go to war yeah my guess is she's going to have

to decide I would rather feel the

short-term discomfort of not having a

gift for every single thing that pops up

because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody and now I can so I feel like I have have to she's going to have to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband

don't have to worry about not having anything to eat and that's hard and I haven't seen a

way to get there without emotion without

without a story without you saying this

is how I feel yeah and if she looks at you and says I

don't care how you feel I'm buying gifts for this thing well now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to deal

with yeah can you do that

yeah most

definitely the other side of this Lester

when it comes to the Tactical is that

you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going hey what's happening this month a birthday should not be a surprise we know when the birthdays are happening Christmas happens on December 25th every year I check my calendar still happening and so

you kind of know what's coming up and you adjust the budget accordingly so if we need to add a gift line item in the

budget let's do that if we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catchall of

50 bucks or 100 bucks let's do that so

it doesn't derail our plans well that's often really important because that's

when the $20 plus $20 plus $50 turns

into 310 bucks and she goes oh gosh how

do I do that yeah and the other thing is

we check the budget before we make the purchase so if we go to the gift we go oh gosh I wish we're going to have to do a handmade gift let's make a little basket let's get some roses from the garden let's get Crea basket once John

still has it he loves it it was a great gift so Lester that's where you we come

up with a solution together and have the conversation but there is a part of this

that's that's on her as far as accountability going you need to check the budget before you make the purchase that's how I do it that's how you do it we can't just hope that we lined up with the budget perfectly we use that as our guiding kind of North Star and I think

when you do that you start to add in these line items it starts to be less and less of a surprise you get to kind of align it a little more and on top of

that what is your next goal what is the

thing you guys both agree to is the next thing that we're saving up for well it's not necessarily saving up

for it's like being able to pay off our debts so you're in baby step two correct

so even more in baby step two there's even more intention intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going we can't afford to buy people gifts we got to put our own mask on first we're broke and think about how

many gifts we can buy people once we're debt-free with an emergency fund we're

preparing for our future then we can look up for opportunities to give and be

generous MH and so I think that's part

of it is you need to have a plan

together going we're going to pay off $700 a month of debt and here's how

we're going to do it versus we really

need to save more really got to get rid of this debt we need to get more specific so we can actually hit the target ler have you tried any of these things weth throwing at you does it all sound crazy no no no no no yeah and these are

conversations we've had but I agree I haven't been very specific with it my

wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in I mean I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before and it it's not been specific of hey

we're going to spend x amount of dollars on our debt every single month because

we have to it's just been we want to spend more on our debts um and

realistically we don't have a lot of debt um even student loans and medical

debt and things like that included we don't have a lot and So within a year we

could easily have 80% of it paid off um

dud put that in front of her put that

plan in front of her and y'll talk

through it and then more importantly than that plan paint a picture for her of how

you're going to be able to breathe in your own home how you and her are going to have something neither of y'all have ever had which is economic security MH let her just absorb that and

feel her husband radiating this thing

that you've probably never radiated before which is just peace

it makes there's not a lot of gifts I'm going to buy in exchange for my wife's pece for my piece you see what I'm

saying yeah and then by the way once you

get that piece when you like George said you don't owe anybody money you can buy gifts for everybody you could be kind of over the

top and Reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody

money so this little plan this one year

thing we're after this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her so instead of we got to get on a budget you got to spend less it becomes hey remember that's what we're aiming for this is a little blip on that

timeline of intentionality and sacrifice

are you with me yeah and I hope that

helps we're going to gift you every dollar premium luster what are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together um pen and paper um and then I

use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it

you if you show a spender an Excel sheet

they implode inside they scienic they

just die so we're going to gift you every dollar premium it's much easier to look at easier to use you both log in you both have accountability so while she's out she can actually check the bud

budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home so hope that helps Lester we're wishing you the best as you attack this debt that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books thank you to Dr John deloney all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat and you America will be back before you know

[Applause]

it live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm Ramsey personality

George Campbell joined by my best friend

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both are so give us a call and let's talk about your life and your money and help you take the right Next Step

regardless of what's going on in your life Joseph kicks us off this hour in

Los Angeles Joseph welcome to the

show thank you how are you guys we're

doing well how are you I'm doing really

good um my question is so uh just give

you a little backstory my wife and I are debt-free we're saving up for our fully

funded emergency fund right now and then

uh we plan on to start investing from

there um to fund our retirement um but

yeah so we're super blessed um grateful

to be debt free but so my question is

though how can

we can we be sure that the dollar is

going to Main main its value over the

next 30 years since we are going to be

investing and following you know what

you guys recommend in like mutual funds

401k like should we be worried about the

economy or what are you guys' take on

that where's that question coming from

it's it's a question I hear all over the the I mean I hear that question everywhere and I've actually lost many

night's sleep over that question where where are you getting it from uh so you know I'm I'm you know I

have some friends and they're talking about you know Bitcoin and all these

cryptocurrencies and I'm not going that

route but I don't have a you know when

they say well what about the dollar I don't really have a good answer or rebuttal as to why dollar is going to

you know maintain its value over

something like cryptocurrency so I just

wanted to get so I guess it's coming from you know what is trending just kind

of in the air yeah I'm going to give you my very um primitive answer and who's

way Smarter on this stuff we'll give you a a more sophisticated answer um

okay can I guarantee anything over the

next 30 years no you can't but here's

what I can can guarantee

you if the US dollar if we woke up one

day and the US dollar had

collapsed as a Global Currency as a as a

localized

currency Bitcoin would not save you

having an alternative oh okay we've got

this special um email account with these

Special zeros and ones and ones and zeros in it that say it's worth

stuff because every every the world's

debt is in US Dollars Bitcoins are bought and traded in US dollar everything revolves around that and so when people are calling for the collapse of the dollar I can't guarantee you it's not going to happen what I will guarantee you is you'll be fending off

your neighbor because they're going to be trying to kill you for your water

like it's it's or you're going to be figuring out how to walk 30 miles to

work to an office that doesn't exist

anymore because there's no gas to put in

a car like it will it will so change the

way we do life for a while that right um

as one of my buddies told me he's a he's a bank executive and he said hey because

I was just peppering him with these questions and it was actually the the response that freed me he looked at me

and said hey man I don't have a meteorite plan I don't have a plan for if the

world gets hit by a meteorite I'm not I'm not building that world up right I

will deal with that if it happens but until then I'm going to do the next best smart right thing that I got which is BU

real estate and invest

wisely right and so I think most most

people don't have a what kind of

scorched Earth it would be if Wall Street goes away

right definitely no that's that's super

good all right that was my that was my uh my my uh dragons and like swords

answer what do you think George I fell asleep about 3 seconds into that jump I I was bored to tear no I'm just kidding that was a really good answer and uh I

have similar things to say but I'll add to that and tell you this my my I grew

up in a very Evangelical household my mom like can't wait for Jesus to come back right like we she sang the songs she watched Left Behind like we were all in and so my thing is always like Jesus

could come back tomorrow and that could waste all of the effort I made trying to save up this retirement account but also

what if it's not tomorrow and I still have to feed my family and I kind of feel the same way about the crypto like

yes the dollar could get devalued I don't think it's going to collapse if that happened we're not worried about crypto like John said we're worried about feeding you know trading for gas

and ammo at that point and so to your

point I'm going to invest 15% into

mutual funds in the stock market because

for decades and decades and decades I know there's a large chance of a 10%

return with crypto I'm losing sleep

because 24/7 that number is moving in

the gold post post is moving and now it's down 50% but now it's up 1,000% and

what if I had just gotten in and instead

I just want to live with peace I want to

sleep well at night I got to go to work

in the morning and so for that reason it's fine to keep those friends around they're probably good guys well-meaning who want to take care of their families too but it's not a peaceful way to live

and so for that reason it's fine to put fun money in Bitcoin but I'm also not

going to do it under the guys of my

paranoia apocalyptic plan that I'm going

to be the one to survive it if I put money in crypto Joseph I'm going to ask a question on your behalf to George is that is that right okay he's smarter on this stuff than I am um yeah George I

remember doing an event uh with Joo once

and at the end of the event he he said to the audience um we were both on stage

there and he said we talk a lot about military stuff

we talk a lot about might and and our

you know Navy Seals ability but he said the thing that the US has it is um the

small business it's the E economics the

economy and as I dug into that cuz I

started asking people like is that true is that I mean is that sounds good from a stage but is that right and what One

Finance wizard told me and again I'm asking you CU because who knows but said

when a country says we're going to devalue the dollar and they have bought

us treasuries they have an invest a vested interest in the US economy that

they actually are going to lower the amount that we owe them and so the

the the advantage we have is if a

country's like we're going to try to crash the dollar then that the

Investments that they have made go away

right it hurts them financially it hurts them significantly and so my

understanding is the world's debt essentially traffics in US Dollars and

so if a group of countries get together like let's crash the dollar you can do that and it may be maybe to your advantage over 100 years but it's going to be ugly right because you're crashing

the amount you're actually owed back yeah and as much debt as we have we have a lot of friends out there John and so they go hey that's my friend you don't mess with them cuz they're protecting us and so it's a very it's you get into

geopolitics and economics and Joseph I'm

not smart enough to answer that question on that end but I just tell you what I what I do what John does and that's

investing in our 401ks and IRAs paying

off our houses and sleeping well at

night not looking at our investments 247

that was Joseph and and George that was

that was what ultimately when I was where Joseph was I was spinning out man I wasn't sleeping for weeks I was asking everybody all the time ultimately I came to what I control here and if it all

goes away if I don't owe anybody anything

then there's not going to be somebody knocking on my door and say that's mine right whether it's a car whether it's a house whether it's land whatever it is if I don't owe anybody anything then there's not going to be somebody somebody might try to come take it but

they're not going to be saying hey that's actually mine and that to me feels like the the smartest hedge is I

don't know anybody anything let's start there Joseph thank you for a great conversation man hope it helped thank

you have a good day you too man this is

the Ramsey Show we'll be right back 8825

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this is the Ramsey Show I'm George Campell joined by Dr John baloney we're

taking your calls at 8825 5225 Danielle joins us up next in

Milwaukee Danielle welcome to the ramsy

show hi thanks for having me absolutely

how can John and I help well I'm calling about a question

regarding paying for my father's phone

bill uh basically my uh my

dad uh lives below the poverty line um

due to his own life choices I've helped

him financially throughout the years uh

and currently I am just paying his phone

bill and I I want to help him and this

has been a way that I've been able to do so but he has been making some

questionable choices and I don't want to

parent him um and and I just I'm not

sure if this is the right thing for me to be doing um yeah I'm happy to give

more color to that it's you know family

it's kind of complicated yeah it's always it always feels so complicated when you're in it and in Georgia and my

seat it's it's usually way less

complicated um can I ask you a hard

question yes are you paying his phone

bill for him or for

you for him I know but are you paying

the bill for him or for you

well I guess I want him to be okay so I

guess for me in that

regard has he listened to any of the

wisdom or advice you've given him over the

years um no not really if behavior is a

language what has he been telling you for a long long time

well I guess that he doesn't value my

input yeah he'll take your money he'll

take your phone bill

cool but when it comes to I want to live

a different life a healthier life a safer life a more loving life yeah I

don't really care about that I'm especially not going to take that crap from

you and then with a healthy dose of who

do you think you are I'm your

dad how have you been chasing

him your whole

life no um I would say when my parents

my parents were married for 35 years and once they divorced I kind of not right

away but you know as he just continued

to make bad choices I sort of unbeknown

to me took the role of my

mom yeah yeah I know it's a weird

position to be in and while you chose to

be there he had part in putting you there and you have a choice also to get

out of this and just say hey Dad listen

I can't cover your phone bill anymore

what would happen if if that were the case what would the conversation be

like at this point it's going to be me

probably writing him a letter um we I

I've tried to this is the second time I

you know I wanted to go out and visit him you lives out of state

and I don't know if he just doesn't want

me to visit him or what but he always

has a way of just you know bringing we

don't always agree on you know kind of

uh everything right and I'm fine to just

leave those things out of the conversation but he has a way of

bringing them up and just would you call this relationship

transactional at this

point no it's not I mean he was a really

good dad to me growing up and he's not a

bad person just makes really bad choices

and doesn't seem to learn from them so

that's why it's you know he's not a bad

guy and it's not about his character but

I'm saying the relationship right now is I pay the bill he doesn't really want to see me doesn't want want much to do with me but please keep paying my phone bill

and thank

you it's it's more nuanced than that but

I mean yeah I realize I'm calling you guys asking you for your I mean is it

more Nuance than that yeah I I really think it is I mean

he you know expressed that he was excited to see me but then he's telling

me you know

he's I don't want to get into I don't

want to take too much of your time but you know he's he went through he's not

even technically divorced um this third

time but he is separated I guess legally

um and he's started these like dat some

kind of dating site I don't know what he's doing and there's been you know

people he's been talking to and you know

I thought all of that was behind him now but he just shared with me that he's been talking to like 30-year-old women

on some weird encrypted app I just don't

understand and now I feel like he's putting my own safety like with my phone

account like linked to his and Jeopardy

and I'm just like yeah your your gut your gut

instinct is

right and there's more to it than this

too yeah

yeah I think if to Circle back to the

first question I asked you is are you paying this phone

bill so that you can sleep at night

knowing I tried to preserve my

relationship with my dad as I watched

him slowly the the man that I love the

good dad that I had um as I watched him

slowly implode his

life um getting involved with all these

people getting married a bunch of times now he's just he slowly just

unwinding often we try to hang on

because something inside of us says that if there's just we say the right thing or we can just give the right amount of data or just just do the right nice kind

thing that suddenly they'll be like oh amazing hey by the way can you help me

with my love life and my money and right

and unfortunately that Call's not going to come so if you want to make if you want

to pay a phone bill and just pay his phone bill and make that a part of your life and and not hope for that that will

have an RO a relational Roi on it great

knock your lights out George and I let's just say make sure you're not putting that on credit card right um if you're

just tired of being involved with all

this and now you're wondering what he's even doing on on an encrypted app that's

that's linked to you and your bank account dude let's just I'm goingon

write a letter and sayon I'm a step away from this yeah and then you're going to have

to spend some time in this scary um uh

black hole called grief it's not

supposed to be like this your parents are married for 34

years yeah here here's the spark notes

if a cell phone bill is propping up with a relationship and this is one Jenga piece that knocks the whole thing down

there was never a relationship there and that's the hardest scariest part to face

is that whatever was I know he's a good

guy he was a great dad but the it's

changed the relationship's changed and I think that's the hardest part to grieve is the guy he was and the guy he is

now and I know you know this but I feel

I feel compelled to say it you didn't do anything wrong

Daniel you've been a good

daughter there's not a thingly tried I

know but there's not a thing you could have done differently in a conversation you didn't have he's your dad he's a

grown man he's way older than you he got he's made adult choices and there's like we we we told

the previous caller there's just nothing harder than watching someone you love love um flush their life away especially

when you're standing there on on the bank of the river saying I can help I

can help and they're like n I'll just stay here it's heartbreaking what what is his

portion of the cell phone bill I'm just curious what's the financial

amount um maybe like 70 bucks or

something like that so if it was on him to cover 70 bucks from now on do you think he could do it no I think he'd have to go back to

like a flip phone

that's the best thing great idea for

honestly ever since he got this iPhone

and he's had more time on his hands I

just don't even understand what's going on over there but yeah I might keep him

out of jail I think it's a good idea

seriously yeah something's something's

weird yeah I'm so sorry Daniel that is

not a fun thing to deal with the theme

so far of the show John has been you cannot change people no no matter what

you want to give them or cover for them

it's not going to going to make the relationship better and it's not going to solve their problems you can create

good boundaries you can be graceful and

merciful and forgiving and then you can

do the next right thing for you and for

your relationship and sometimes that's walking away or sometimes that's just saying I'm taking my hands off the wheel you're driving cool I'll be here when you're ready more of your calls coming

up 8

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/ budget welcome back to the Ramsey Show

I'm George camel my co-host today is Dr

John deloney open phones at 8825

5225 our question of the day is brought

to you by y refi if you're in default with private student loans contact y

refi obviously we don't encourage letting your loans get into default we

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so go to y refi.com

Ramsey that's

yy.com Ramsey may not be available in

all states all right today's question

comes from Scott in Michigan Scott

writes I have been in the Auto industry

for almost six years I started as a

mechanic at a large dealership moved up to service advisor and recently was promoted to Sales Consultant I bring in

about $150,000 a year after reading

George campell's Breaking Free from broke in the chapter about car loans I

felt guilty for being a part of this industry way to go George sorry you

guilt pedler I've always thought of

myself as an honest salesperson and I

don't just sell people a car I try to

educate my customers into making the right decision but yet I feel very

convicted after reading this chapter

thanks again George I went to college

for business management but dropped out so that I wouldn't accumulate any more debt and I've been gazelle intense so

that me and my wife and kids or My Wife and Kids think I've gone crazy I fear that if I pursue another career I would not be able to earn what I currently make because the Auto industry is the one I know is it hypocritical to

continue to work in an industry that keeps people in debt while working my butt off to get myself out of debt hey

Dave can I come work for you honestly we

are hiring Scott so we have a lot of sales rolls open at Ramsey solutions.com

careers but that's for another day to

your question truthfully here's my take

John might have a completely different take I feel like we need Scott in the

car industry we need people with Integrity who leading people to the right decision who aren't scum burgers

and it's easy to generalize an entire industry as this is a gross industry but

I think what Scott's doing here is Noble

it's moral there's no issues with it uh

if you are in The Lending department and it eats away at your soul you need to get out of there but as a as the

salesperson it's not your job to say hey

here's the lending part here's the financing part they're going to go to another guy to deal with the financing you're there to say hey what is your

budget here here's a car that is in your budget and then if they have questions along the way you can steer them to go hey this one might be better for you guys I want to I want you guys to walk away from here debt-free there's nothing wrong with that as a salesperson and yeah you might not get as many commissions as going you should get the car that's way too expensive because it

has the sweet feature I think we need people with Integrity steering people toward that so you think um you Scott

can can sit down with people and say okay until it eats away at his soul what

kind of money you to pay I think a

coroll is a great option for you instead

of saying oh they just walked in the door let's get them in a Land Cruiser even though we know they can afford the payment right um so they may be the

voice of reason and there's a people are

adults when they buy cars and they could always it's not on you they don't feel the personal responsibility of that person's decision to buy a car they can't afford and I want to address the

the the bottom of this

um and this is this is a heavy

one this idea that for whatever reason

and we live in a wild world now where

because of Twitter and because of social

media and we know how our bosses vote we

know who they vote for we know what they think about this issue and that issue and we know where they stand on this and this not to mention Oh I thought I was

selling cars I didn't realize that y'all only make money on finance right we we

know so much more millions of people look in the

mirror and say can I be a part of this

particular business for X Y and Z

reasons cuz I've got this set of values and somewhere along the way in this chain of value hierarchies we don't

align the question often comes up but I

won't make this kind of money a I think

that's a false sense of scarcity if

you've been able to work yourself up like clearly this guy is good at what he does he's a personate character he works

really hard because he's moved from this position to this he continues to get promotion so let's let what has happened

be the map forward you'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard you'll be a person of integrity you'll make your way through he's a problem solver that's right that's the skill set he's clearly a good leader or they wouldn't keep moving him up that's number one number two you always have to

go back and ask yourself what's your integrity worth and that's a scary hard

question that's a scary hard question for a guy like me right like what if it

in my core guts I just thought at the

end of the day when I put my head on my pillow I think you can get rich from

airline miles and my boss Dave is like

you can't get rich with airline miles

I'd have to ask myself what's it worth

right what's it worth um and so I think in congruence every

day and I just haven't been able to find

a way to sleep at night when when um

there's in congruence in your life like that and so I think all of us have to ask that hard question and then go ask

all right what must be true right but

your kids will feel that lack of congruency your spouse will feel that lack of congruency your body will feel

that lack of congruency so you might think you're just plugging along making such and such paycheck but man it will

it will burn the rest of your life to the ground it's tough it's tough so if you can be a change angent change angent

here Scott and stay in it and make peace with it and not eat away at your soul do

it and keep helping people but if you can't like John's saying then you got to make the move out of here and I we both believe you have the skill set to move into any other industry and know that

the other industry they probably also sell stuff that someone can Finance so

can I can I tell you there's there was a

pivotal moment in my life from a um a

friend and extraordinary mentor of mine his name is Dr Richard Beck he's a psychology Professor he's an experimental psychologist he's a genius

literal one day I was sitting with him

and some things had happened to some students um and I was really struggling

with it um whether the University's

response was appropriate I I it didn't sit well with me so I went and sat with

him and here's what he said he said John

like I get your your tension here I get

The Angst and I think you're right like

as a as a mentor as a friend you're I want you to know you're free to go like you're right and then he said just know

that if you leave those students will

still be here and if everybody runs out

the door just because quote unquote because they

can right and that particular

interaction shifted so now I want to

find places where maybe I can offer an

alternative Voice or maybe I can say

well what let's think of bit this way and where can we find where can we like

I love you said this Scott this may be

the greatest place for you you may be

the one salesperson that continues to say you know what I don't think you can afford the Camry but the Corolla is an amazing car let's go check it out and

that you're the person con constantly

getting poked fun at by your fellow salespeople because your commission checks are smaller because you keep directing people to cars that they can actually afford you know what the new lot is not for you guys let's go over here to the certified new lot because I think this is going to be a better option for you in your family long term what if you were that guy and you slowly

pay fully changed the culture in in that

and people kept coming back to you because they trusted you well that word of mouth alone I'm going to go hey you need to go see this guy Scot go see

he'll tell you the truth it's so much easier to stand out in a industry filled

with scum because you're the one good guy so if you if if there's a place where your boss votes differently than I quit okay or what if you stayed what if

you stayed and what if you said let's

think about it this way what if you became over time a voice of reason a

voice of A New Perspective and you continue to show up and continue to show up I think that's how the world changes if everybody heads for the exits when it gets hard and scary and uncomfortable nothing changes in fact everything gets more polarized and everything gets harder and so ask yourself that question

Scott and everybody listening what if you stayed what if you stayed and you

would just begin to slowly offer

different ways to see the world I just I think that's how the world changes well and especially in this industry cars are aoral now if this was a product that is

inherently gross if he's working for a

Payday or title Pond I'd say I get out

of there that whole place is like Dan the the cocaine dealer probably it's a

car suddenly I can't it's a car it has

utility so uh this was a Choose Your Own

Adventure Scott we're not going to tell you to do one thing or the other but uh you need to follow your conscience and your values and the fact that you wrote in maybe tells me it might be time for a different career shift who knows here you go or you come here uh work for ramsy and thanks for reading the book by the way I didn't know I was that convincing John that's amazing yeah yeah

you've convinced me on some things really yeah to do what um name one uh

got venmo oh that's right you convinced

me to get venmo you've almost convinced me um I was in Pennsylvania two nights ago and I reached out to you and said hey will you Sean doesn't know how to do

like instacart sh as a surprise to my

family and um and I said John I'm not

your personal assistant I'd be happy to do that for my hourly rate which you can't afford I can't afford he can't afford that I can't afford that but I would do it as a friend but you did convince me to get venmo and I may get uh uh what instacart baby steps I think

I'm G get take it one day at a time John

wel welcome 21st century here I come

this is the Ramsey Show hey George camel

here with a not so fun fact every

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employee benefit Research Institute

recently did a study asking how many people have a million dollar safe for

retirement according to their research only 3.2 of Americans have a million

dollars or more in their taxed Advantage

accounts like a 401k and IAS 58% of

Americans have less than $10,000 saved

in their retirement

accounts dude that that's dark stuff

that's I had no idea it was that bad 60%

six out of 10 Americans basically could could do a

month and a half in a retirement home

that's it as a listener of the Ramy show

are you staying on track with the baby steps to reach your financial goals here's the deal take a quick quiz to

check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you simply

head to the show notes click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps and complete the free quiz if you

are one of the six out of 10 Americans that have less than 10 grand there is a

light for you but you got to get on it

right you have to you got to begin to act differently George that would that would freak me out that would scare me to death yeah and people think it's a life sentence they think they're their DNA inherently has this in them where they go well I'm just going to I'm a broke person John you can change you can

just snap your fingers and go I don't want to live like this I want to change my family tree I don't have to retire broke and so this quiz will help you

start to take the next step figure out where you're really at if and if you just look at man basic demographic

data this same six out of 10 who have

less than 10,000 I'll go as high as 70% 80% that

are that are fragile

it's about the same stat that are living paycheck to paycheck but also everybody

knows that they're they're ringing the bell saying hey uh your Social Security

is going to be less than like we're we're not solvent here in the next 10 15

20 years by 2034 they're going to reduce

the benefit by 27% so there is it already wasn't that

high it's a slow car crash

coming you got to be your own financial

plan act today act today act today check

out the show notes are you on track with the baby steps complete the free quiz stare down this anxious moment in your life and begin to do something different

let's go to Stamford Connecticut and talk to James what is up

James everything above the nose John and

George how's the day fing you excellent

the same what's up excellent I need some advice we're

going to tread a little bit carefully because I am trying my best to thread

the needle with my mother-in-law she

keeps giving Financial and career advice

to my family specifically my wife that

do not work for our family situation and

really do not work in 2024 so James you

do not have a problem with your mother-in-law she is your proxy W you

have a problem with your

wife I I I would think that you are

probably correct I am worried that my

wife is going to listen to her mother uh

my my mother-in-law was able to raise

four children in the midwest through the 80s and 90s uh without working she I

don't believe has ever worked a 40-hour

a week job in her life she couple of

days you know helping out at this Nursery School couple of days here so

what do you disagree on with your mother-in-law what does she want your wife to do stay at home well yes

basically all of the uh advice that

she's giving involve things around we

have two children under six and and it's

comments along the lines of you know when both the kids are out of daycare my

wife works as a daycare teacher as well

um when the kids are out of daycare uh

you can leave that job and just teach music lessons I make 60 an hour teaching

music lessons and that's great but that

doesn't make up for the income that we

need in order to live where we here's

the thing who

who I have the greatest mother-in-law

who's ever lived she's amazing and I expect my mother-in-law to

give the advice that she sees fit for

how she wants the world to work I I

acknowledge that too but when it comes

to the life that me and my wife have to

build for ourselves she doesn't get a

vote and so your your mother-in-law can

say whatever she wants good for her that's awesome it's amazing she's not

the problem here the problem here is is

you and your wife are not on the same page

and so it doesn't do it doesn't matter what your brother-in-law's saying it matters that you look at your wife and

your wife says Hey I want to stay home and you say we can't afford to do that

or we can but here's what it's going to cost you have to sell the car we can't

live in this particular house or in this particular neighborhood yeah and at this point we're having to have this conversation about every six to nine months or so and

I've tried showing my wife the math and

that it does not work so James I'm hearing your wife wants to stay home if

she could have it her way she would stay home is that true I think that she gets the

impression that she is working to pay

for daycare and nothing else and that

once the children are out of daycare that that need might

disappear and then she wants to stay

home I think so I think part of it may

be a byproduct to that's the home environment that she was raised in so

she has seen it work but that I don't

think is realistic or sustainable I want

you to reverse engineer y dream that you

decide together and that might mean okay

here's the math of it we can't do this right now here's why but if she says hey

my dream is really I want to stay home

and you want to support that dream then you go let's do the budget what's it going to take okay I need to do this this many more music lessons we need to do this we need to cut our Lifestyle by this to get in a financial place in order to do this so I think you're she's

the wow you're the how and you're going we we have no way to actually accomplish

this but then there's also the part of

you don't want this to happen right now

so this is really like John said this is between you and your wife she wants to stay home you don't want her to stay home take the Mother-in-law out of it yeah you keep crafting all these stories and imaginations like well it's probably because of this and maybe it's it doesn't matter just forget all the story

Parts just sit down and look at the woman that you've made humans with look

at the woman that you said I do till death to his part like what kind of Life do we want to have what do you want this house to feel like when we get home every day how much are you making a year James

just just you

uh just myself about 60,000 and are you

doing music lessons full-time no mother-in-law does music uh

my wife no she's a music teacher by trade what are you doing full time I uh am a program director for a

mediumsized nonprofit okay okay so I

think we also need to go okay if this is

in the future my wife staying home we're going to be a one- inome family what changes do I need to make what education do I need to get what career moves do I need to make in order to sustain a good

life for my family

and that's the part that I think scares you is this involves you having to

change too or at least it involves y'all having

to have a truthful conversation about

hey what do I want what do I what I what do I really want I really want to work at this job I love my nonprofit work and

I know I make half of what I could make in the in the in the for-profit world

but I feel valued and loved here and then your wife looks across the table and says I really want to stay at home

with their kids I see what happens in daycares I want to be with their kids

okay now we have a desires challenge both of us are being honest both of that's on the table now we're just going to look at them at at math does not care

about what we want math is just math so

let's look at the math problem we have here and maybe it's for three years I'm

going to stay at this nonprofit but I'm going to work an extra job so that you can stay home because I know that's important to you and maybe it's you know

what for three years I'm going to keep working at daycare because at least I get to see the kids half the day and we're not netting a lot of new income but this mission that you're called to it does not nonprofit is really important but now yall are actually talking substantively you're being honest with one another and you're putting your hearts and minds and souls on the table like you promised each other you would at your wedding and your

mother-in-law doesn't get a

vote but right now when your wife says

well my mom says that I that's her

knowing if I she just tells you what she wants you're going to blow by her with a

spreadsheet and when your wife says um

something and you go well it's just your mother-in-law speaking that's you not being able to say every really love my

work it means something to me do you get

what I'm saying let's just take mother-in-law out of the equation let's just talk directly with your wife is that

possible yeah yeah most of the time you

sound like a um actually you sound a lot

like me brother you sound like a spreadsheet guy you can pull up a

spreadsheet and you can make the math work or you can be real honest about it not working I want you to sit down with

your wife and talk about emotions and feelings which is Maybe be a scary thing

here's how I feel about this here's what I want I feel like your mother-in-law has a seat at our table at dinner table

I feel like your mom has a seat in our

bedroom I don't want her in here anymore I want it to be us what world do we want

to create thank you so much for the call

my brother this is the Ramsey Show

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## 154. Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances | October 23, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91QqrohlO8) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:02:13 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. So, we're here to take your calls. Give us a call at 888255225.

Up first, we have Shawn in Springfield, Illinois. Hey, Sean, welcome to the show. >> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I'm a huge fan. >> Oh, well, thanks for calling in. How can we help? Um, so basically

my question is, should I take a loan to

pay off a debt? That way I have a little bit of breathing room so I can start baby step one.

>> Should you take >> Explain the math on that one. You're going to take out a loan to pay off another loan and that somehow gives you breathing room. >> Aren't you just swapping one payment for another?

Yes, but uh if I took out the loan, I'd

have a smaller payment because right now

uh the loan is $500 a month. And that

plus rent plus my uh car payment and all my other insurance and groceries and all that puts me just barely making it by

every month. >> What would the payment be?

Uh, it'd probably be closer to $100 a

month instead of 500 >> by dragging it out.

>> Uh, yeah.

>> Okay. >> So, it's a $400 swing. How much are you making a year?

>> Uh, without overtime about 40,000.

>> Okay. Are you doing overtime now?

>> Uh, I'm getting as much overtime as I can and uh it's kind of our slow season right now. So, whenever I'm not at work, I'm door dashing. >> Yeah. to make some extra money.

>> Mhm. What do you do?

>> Uh I work in agriculture. So I drive I

move fertilizer to the fields and apply

it. >> Okay. Yeah. So getting into winter months, you guys aren't >> What's your total debt?

>> Uh my total debt is 20,000.

>> And what is that? Break that down for us. Uh 17 of it is for my car and the other

3,000 is for this debt that's currently

that I'm talking about.

>> Okay. For your car, have you Kelly blue booked it to see what you could sell it for? >> Yeah. Uh it on a private party is worth

about 11.

>> Okay. So you're six grand underwater there. And you're saying the 3k debt has a $500 a month payment.

Uh yeah, it's currently I believe it's

considered in collections. Uh it's $250

every paycheck for 11 more weeks

>> and then you're done.

>> Well, 11 more payments when I'm done.

Yes. >> I mean, Sean, I'll be honest. No, I probably wouldn't switch it because I feel like when you're getting out of debt or you're starting baby step one even, it's this gazelle intensity where you are working every minute of every waking day, if possible, you're door dashing on the week. I mean, you are you're figuring out a way to get out of debt faster.

So, and a part of me kind of wants you just to figure out how to do it because this is going to help you get out of debt faster. $500 a month as a minimum payment um versus spreading it out. And I understand you're trying to get that margin, but I would pick up that $400 somewhere else >> from from an income perspective, honestly, because yeah, I feel like that this this is the reason why you would be gazelle intense. Like, this is this will fuel you >> and instead of kind of like slow you down because there's almost a level of I understand what you're saying that yeah, that $400 a month.

get $1,000 in the next 30 days. So, I

don't know how you're going to do it, but like that's that's the baby step one. intensity. It's not slowing down the payments so that I can have more margin to do baby step one. It is we're going above and beyond our normal to be able to find extra money >> because that 3,000 debts your smallest.

So that's the next one to attack. So I'd rather you putting more toward the principal which is the 500 than putting 100 toward it just so you can get your baby step one. The the key here is finding the the secret sauce in your income to be able to do the baby steps, not to move the debt around and add more debt in order to try to make it work because that's not changing any behavior that got us here. And also that car is half your income. So that's another glaring issue here.

And you're way underwater on Did you roll over negative equity? Why is it worth so little?

Uh, so I got the car the beginning of

September and uh I needed a vehicle.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it already dropped 6,000. It dropped 6,000 in like 60 days.

>> I am like 90% positive I overpaid for it.

>> So you got hosed at the dealership?

>> Do what? I'm sorry. Did you get hosed at a dealership? Like, who sold you this car? Like, who hates you that much?

>> Yeah, it's uh it was car-wise, so you

know, the whole one dime down, take a car home today kind of.

>> So, and you probably got a crazy high.

What's the interest rate on this?

>> Uh 23%. >> There we go. Ding, ding, ding. Gosh, >> we have a winner. Okay, >> that sales guy must have just been like on his smoke break like you would not believe this. 23% on this last >> Come on, Sean. He already made the mistake. >> I know. I'm just like, you went in there for a vehicle, right? Just something reliable.

>> Yeah, cuz my truck had just broken down.

>> I'm trying to make this like help me and everyone understand like what happens in these scenarios. So, you go in and you say, "Here's the payment I can afford." And they go, "We can make that work." >> Uh, yeah, pretty much.

>> Which that's normal, Sean. I don't know why George is being so >> I'm not I'm just I'm trying to show people the tricks of the dealership.

>> That's right. that is >> because someone else is about to fall for that who's desperate for a reliable >> and it's the urgency that they pick up on my my truck is dead and people are like perfect I got a guy who pay you desperation is here we can do it so don't fall for it people everyone listening >> um so Sean I almost would be curious if you went down to your credit union and got a $10,000 loan paid off the difference of the truck got a $4,000

crappy car off some highway in Illinois

and called it a day and I'd rather have $10,000 and a less payment and not paying 23% interest.

>> Yeah. What's your payment? What does that free up to attack that 3,000?

>> If you didn't have the car payment, what's the car payment?

>> My car payment currently, like for the car I have right now, my car payment is 461 a month.

>> Okay. That gets you your baby step one in two months, just if you free up that car payment without doing any other changes to your life. Yeah. And I would be working as much overtime as you can, as much Door Dash and side hustles as you can and see is there room to grow in this agriculture field because it it kind of worries me that like if this is the top, we got to find something else.

>> A average I mean household is around 67,000 just to kind of give you a ballpark. >> So you you know 40,000 I mean yeah you're you're you're kind of under you're under that. So I just wonder what else is out there for you from your from a primary income perspective how to get that up. there is room to grow and I do get a uh 3% raise every year.

>> That's going to take a while to get to, you know, 50 60 because what we're looking at is the next 5 years, not just to get out of this debt. And so I'm looking for your future, Sean, to go, how can Shawn build some wealth? How can Shawn become a homeowner one day and have money to invest on top of just surviving and covering the bills? And right now, you're in that paycheck to paycheck survival cycle.

>> Yeah. So Sean, I think if we woke up in your shoes, we would probably go get like a $10,000 loan from the credit union, sell the car, pay off the difference, take some of that money and go and buy a crappy car. Um, keep your

$500 payments and find the margin

through the income perspective uh to get that $1,000. I'd make it a goal. Do it in the next four weeks. Find $1,000 in four weeks selling stuff, whatever you got to do. Um, and then start attacking that $3,000 debt because you'll get that paid off. I think you're going to start feeling some momentum, but there's got to be a real big sense of urgency on your end.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Up next we have is it is it Corin?

>> Karen >> Karen from Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi,

welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you so much.

>> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

>> Um, so I wrote this out, so here we go.

It's not long. I just didn't want to get it wrong. >> So, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm a stay at home mom of two kiddos. Just started homeschooling this year, and my husband works at a pastor as a pastor at a church, and he currently does not make

enough money for our family to live off of. And so, how do I navigate a conversation about looking for a new job all while trying to make sure that we are following God's plan for my husband's call and ministry?

>> Interesting. What's he making?

>> Uh 58,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, we're not like poverty level here. I thought he was like a youth pastor making, you know, $30,000 and it was a struggle, but 58,000. Do you guys have debt?

Um, we have only about like four 5,000 in debt, 2,000 on our car, and then we had to borrow money from my father-in-law, 2500. Um, I actually

picked up a contract job to kind of help

pay off that debt. Um, but it's causing a lot of stress with just balancing home

making, homeschooling, you know, all the

different levels of being a mom. Um, >> so, so anyway, I don't want to do that long term. It's definitely helpful in the meantime, but it's not like the vision that we had for a family with >> How much um would you say um in your

monthly budget if you had x amount more per month would make you feel >> like have some breathing room and a little bit more comfortable?

Uh, I mean even like

1 to 2,000 extra because when I was before um doing

this contract work, but I've only done it for 3 months, it we were doing food banks and stuff. So, >> um, we're at that level and that sounds

crazy because you're like, you know, they're not $30,000. It is almost twice as much as that. But um it's just >> Do you guys have a pretty detailed budget, would you say, on what you spend on um groceries and gas and like I mean

do y'all is it pretty laid out that you guys have boundaries around categories and what you're spending?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Definitely. >> And what's your mortgage?

>> Our mortgage is 2,000. So it's about half of our income.

>> Okay. >> That explains a lot of it. >> That's probably a lot of it. Honestly, >> that's where that extra >> thousand dollars. um that you're looking for that you need breathing room is tied up in the mortgage payment.

>> Um >> yeah. How much do you guys have left on the house?

>> Oh, we just moved here uh to the area

last year. Um so we're house broke. Kind of like scrambled to move here for this job because we felt like that's what God was calling us to do. >> Okay. >> Bought the house out of budget. Um and so that's kind of now we're like, "Yeah, now what?" you know, kind of a situation

>> for sure. Yeah. I mean, from I mean,

does the church if you if you talk to him, is is he um I mean, I hate to just

say like go get a raise from your church. >> But has he talked to his leadership?

>> Is there is there an elder board? Is there a Is there anyone that he's going to that knows or does he even know that you feel this way?

>> Yeah, we No, definitely he knows. um the

church is is not uh as healthy as it

should be. And so the conversations he has had has have kind of been like check back in in 6 months. Let's check back in, you know, at the new fiscal year to see what we can how we can do anything.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> what would he be doing if he wasn't a pastor? If he went and go went and got a different job, >> I don't know. He's been a pastor his entire worship pastor, so it's not like a lead pastor. He's but he's been one his entire adult life. That's how I met him as a pastor and had kids all while all while all while doing >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh 34. >> Okay. Okay. >> Here's my take the it might be a fallacy

that he's going to go out and get a job paying more than 60 doing something else tomorrow. >> Like that might be a pipe dream right now. >> And so what I've seen and this is pastors in my life. You know, I I was a part of a church plant and the pastor was bivocational and so he did handyman

work and woodworking and started an Etsy store on top of his pastoral duties. So, I think he needs to start doing that on the side. And maybe that thing turns full-time and maybe God blesses him at the church and things get healthier and he gets a raise there. But at least then we kind of have a better clue as to what the next step is.

>> Is he open to doing side work?

Um, I don't know. We've never talked about it before. >> Does he go in 40 hours a week to the

church? >> Oh, yeah. Or or more. Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. From And I wonder his responsibilities there. I mean, they're paying him, I guess, you know, a full salary. So, I'm assuming that, yeah, there's stuff to be done and he has responsibilities there. Um, yeah. I mean, >> the I mean, the biggest glaring thing to me, I hate to say, is the house. I just think you guys bought too much of a house. If you stayed within that 25% range of your income, which is what we teach, that would be um you know,

>> which means you would >> $800 probably. Yeah. $800 back into the

paycheck of what you're looking at. So either he makes a career shift if he doesn't see an income going up >> um soon, right? And the church, you know, again, I'm not making them the bad guy by any means, but it is what they have and that's what they have. That's the salary that you guys took to come here.

Um, but if you can't make that work as a family, then I think you guys do need to have a bigger conversation as a family. And I think, you know, and I know you know this, but just encourage you like service and doing work as a believer unto the Lord can look a thousand different ways. And I know in ministry specifically, people can get very comfortable in that world. It's the only world they've known.

So, even to step out into something that's totally different kind of feels scary and all of that, but but again, that's your personal conviction of what you guys feel led to and called to.

it it's I don't know. It's hard for me to navigate it because I don't know you guys personally and what you know what I'm saying? >> We can't be like, "Well, how do you know that's God's calling? If you say it, we believe it." You know what I mean?

And so, there's a piece of this where we go, "Well, someone's got to sacrifice. Either you need to give up the dream of being a stay-at-home mom. he needs to give up the dream of being a pastor cuz right now being stressed and broke that's not of the Lord. I think we can all at least agree on that.

Like that's not a good future uh where we're going to thrive. And so it's going to need to be some give and take here. And it might be some of it temporary the side jobs to just clean up the debt, get a good emergency fund, then reassess where we're at and can we still >> accomplish all of our goals, cover the bills, invest for the future. If we can, then great.

Yeah. >> I have a feeling though we're going to need to see some income shift if we're going to keep up our current lifestyle and keep the house.

>> Four and six. >> Four and six. Okay. So, they would be starting kindergarten next year and second grade, I guess. >> Uh yeah. Right. Yeah.

>> Um Yeah. And so that's and that's the hard thing about in today's world and a lot of people that call in you know are in a very similar boat we're in where you know you have these you have you have your your wish list of what you want life to look like. You want to be a stay at home mom. You want to homeschool.

Your husband wants to do ministry. You want to live in this house. You you want to you know this is the wish list of life that you start to live out. And then you realize oh gosh but there is a reality and this is not >> this is not negative of what God's will is.

there's a reality of living in 2025 that that the numbers have to work. You know, you just it is what it is. So, something on that list, the prioritization of what you guys value is going to have to shift.

I don't know if that is him shifting. I don't know what that looks like, but that's a value system that you guys have to paint for your family and where you guys feel comfortable um to figure out how to make this math work. But um yeah, and yeah, the house the house is hard for me. >> It's just an immovable object unless we sell it and downsize.

And I don't know if you can rent in Little Rock with a family of four for way less, right? So that's the other part of this. It's just hard. I mean, the housing market's tough.

I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I think it will unlock some things for your husband, maybe even for you to figure out what are the things in the short term or long term we can be doing to create a more sustainable future for ourselves. Yeah. So, hang on the line will gift you that. And I hope he realizes that there there might be more than this church job and maybe he can do ministry outside of that in the public or private sector.

>> Yeah. Or on the side like what you were saying, you know what I mean? what how do how do we make the numbers work for our family? What does that look like?

And I think staying, you know, the God's will, his calling, that's a very sub I

don't know. That's a very subjective card to play and that's different for everyone. But I do think you can do incredible work for the kingdom and it doesn't have to be in the walls of the church. >> Amen. [Music]

[Music]

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>> Hi, how are you guys? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so how do I stop spending

everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself?

>> Oh, interesting. What are you spending money on?

>> Well, honestly, um, mostly Door Dash.

Um, but then just random stuff. Like I always find a way, no matter how much money comes in the paycheck, to spend it all. >> It's fair. >> Love will find a way. Have you thought about uh like deleting the Door Dash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

>> Yeah. Well, I actually didn't. I did that like two days ago. Um and like you

said, love will find a way. It's just like a creeping addiction, you know?

>> So, you see like the zucchini you bought three days ago and you're like, "Ah, Door Dash sounds better. I'm redownloading it. >> Oh yeah. >> Like going back to an abusive ex >> to a zucchini. Why don't you at least say like >> Well, we all aspirational grocery shop.

You know what I mean? We're like, you know what? I'm going to eat a zucchini.

>> I'm going to eat a whole bag of spinach.

>> I saw a good Instagram air fryer zucchini recipe. I'm going to >> whole thing of spinach. >> Well, Gabe, but here's the thing. What are your financial goals? Cuz I think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to fuel your love of Door Dash to stop that. >> Yeah. Well, first is get a car. Then

after that, a house and then after that crack the million mark in net worth.

>> Love it. Those are great goals. >> Okay, >> that's the American dream summed up.

>> What are you doing for a living right now? >> Uh right now it's not good. I'm actually um working for the master I feed. I door dash a lot from >> Wait, what?

>> Well, no wonder it's easy cuz you're around it all the time. Like this Taco Bell. >> Wait, do you drive for Door Dash? >> I'll pay myself to do it again.

>> Okay. You're not working for like Door Dash corporate. You're like a >> No, he's a door dasher. He's >> Okay. How old are you? >> Running around food for people.

>> Yeah. >> How old are you? >> I'm 20. >> Under 20. Okay. >> Are you in school? Did you not go to college? What happened?

>> Yeah. Well, I'm in school for business management right now.

>> Okay. What do you want to do with that?

Well, um, ideally, you know, um, get a

short-term management job to kind of build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and >> try my hand at the entrepreneuriality of

I can't talk. You're good. >> So, you want to work in management of something like is it retail, is it corporate? Have you sort of drilled down into that to what you'd be most into?

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously if someone offers me a job paying more than Door Dash is, I'll take it at this point. >> Have Okay. How much longer in school?

>> Yeah. When you graduate?

>> Uh, I'm expecting next summer.

>> Okay. >> Cash flowing it or are you going to debt? >> I'm cash flowing it. >> Great. >> Do you have any debt?

>> I have $200 in credit cards.

>> Okay, we got that. It's good. Um, okay,

Gabe, you know what I'm gonna say?

You're I'd say you're a typical 20-year-old guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think you need a little bit of motivation. Um, and I think when you're in school, you have a part-time job. Um, you know, you got to just float your expenses. I mean, are you living at home? How what what are you doing like for rent and all of that?

>> Yeah. No, right now I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help the spending, but >> Yeah. Well, it's fine. I mean, you're in college. I think that's totally appropriate. Um, so what do you have to pay for? What are the things that are you're responsible for?

>> Uh right now it's just my phone and gas.

>> Phone and gas. Okay. >> And what are you making every month?

>> Uh naturally it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Because if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas. >> And because you're a full-time college student, so you're in co you're you're in college.

Um which I don't think is bad. >> Yeah, that's great. You're in college, you're doing well in your classes, you're going to graduate on time.

And so, you can do this. You can even automate some of this. I don't always recommend that for people because I kind of like people's behavior to change because they're actually the ones doing it. But for you, I would almost say, yeah, make make it a goal where you save, you know, half of that. Maybe you save what if you saved $1,000 a month cuz how much does your phone and gas cost? >> Not much. It usually shakes out to around three 400.

>> Okay. So, yeah. What if you gave yourself 600 bucks to spend on how you

want and then save half of your income and you do that for the next golly six months, you'd have $6,000 when you graduate. That'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving. But, but you can even go in and automate some of this. like you can, you know, set up some systems in place with online banking and that kind of thing that when your paycheck hits um >> it's like pay yourself first.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I'd be giving some too. I think there there's a practice of generosity in there.

Practice the saving part and then you can still enjoy some of it. So, I think you're in a good spot. I think it's just the habits and the routines uh monthtomonth that you need to change. And when you kind of get those in place, you start to be disciplined. you start to know what you're doing. You're telling your money what to do. And then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a

$2,000 a month um to maybe a $5,000

$6,000 a month salary. And you know, you've you've changed the way that you handle your money. Literally, your behavior changes.

>> Okay. >> I was exactly like you, Gabe. I'm looking back at when I was >> you were not that much of a spender.

>> No. But when I was living at home, I was working in the Apple store. >> Yeah. And every paycheck would just go to like gear and just spend. I didn't I wasn't saving any of it. >> Well, because there's no urgency. >> Exactly. I was living at home. And so I just I remember feeling that way, Gabe.

And what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house. I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school, and that sort of put a new pep in my step to go, listen, mom's not going to save you with her home-cooked meals.

>> I don't think move out though. Do you >> I'm saying once he graduates though, he should just go ahead and find an actual job. >> Natural. Don't stick around home saying, "Well, I could save up for a house faster." And then all of a sudden you spent 500 bucks on Door Dash.

>> Yes. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So, when you graduate, you need to move out. That needs to be >> create some problems for yourself cuz we are wired to solve problems. And right now, you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing, but if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you kind of need to have some some uh you know, some mojo. And right now, it's hard to have that when mom's folding the laundry. Totally. True.

>> Uh Gabe, what kind of car do you have right now?

Well, right now I don't have anything.

I'm driving my dad's for Door Dash.

>> Oh. >> Whoa. How does he feel about that?

>> He feels fine about it because he does it part time, too, so you know.

>> Okay. >> He doesn't really mind.

>> Okay. Well, I would make that a goal then. I think that's a great You said that, but I would re Yeah, I would reiterate. Yeah. If you And if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, I mean, you could

have a $6,000 car in six months. You know what I mean? like it. >> Do you have a high yield savings account, Gabe?

>> Yeah, I do. Um I'm shopping around for another one cuz I'm not a fan of the one I have. >> Perfect. We got just the one for you. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

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And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed. So, pretend you make a thousand bucks a month and now we have to work live off of that. That helped retrain my brain as well.

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You're not deeply in debt, Gabe. But at least you kind of get that reminder.

Yeah. Every time, >> especially as you enter adulthood, it's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, >> take out the personal loan, whatever it is. And so this will help you avoid that temptation. But >> yep, for sure. >> This is very natural. You're 20. You're not weird. You're just 20.

>> Yep. Just put some disciplines and new habits in place. I think you're going to be fine. But George Camel a spender.

>> What can I say? Left to my own devices.

Mama camel cooking at home. >> Unbelievable. >> I'm spending every $16 an hour I make.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

The baby steps are seven steps uh for you to get control of your money, become debtree, start building wealth, and changing your family tree. Well, if you are curious where you are in that process, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Up

next, we have Jennifer in Dallas, Texas.

Hi, Jennifer.

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, well, here is my situation. I am 54

and my husband is 72 and we've been married 23 years. We've had a pretty

successful law firm for about the last 25 years together, but it's it's winding down now and it's kind of to the point where neither of us are taking a salary anymore. And anything that we generate is pretty much going back into the business to keep it afloat and um you know make monthly payroll which is about 20,000 a month generally. and uh we have

no debt uh which is great and we haven't for a long time. We own our home and our law firm free and clear. Um but I find myself kind of in a weird situation being worried about the future um for a couple of reasons and I will say my husband is not and I think it's probably because he's 20 years my senior and I

kind of feel like I'm in a different both than him even though we're in the same marriage. Um, I've never not had a paycheck or a salary in like my entire

career as a as a lawyer or even before.

And it makes me uncomfortable at this, you know, age of my life. And number two

is um the way our estate is set up is um

he was married before me and he's got two adult children. And as it currently stands, 50% of my wealth goes away to

his adult children who are married to pretty wealthy guys. So, I find myself at 54 with a law firm that's winding

down and not really making any money anymore and not um not really knowing

what the future looks like. And he's pretty unbothered and I'm not >> cuz he's like I'm probably going to go first. So, >> right. >> He's like, you have to deal with the fallout, not me. >> Work out. Oh, no.

>> I know. I keep trying to gently remind him of that. And we've got assets of about um 3 million investments in cash.

Our home is worth about 600,000. Like I said, there's no mortgage. We own our law firm. It's probably worth about 750,000 to a million dollars. So, from

the outside looking in, people think we're in great shape, but there's just such a, you know, age disparity. And um

I I just don't know what to do. It stresses me out. And he thinks I'm crazy. >> What do you want to do? If you snapped your fingers today, what happens?

>> I I don't really I don't know. That's a problem for me because this is my whole identity. This is all I've ever known.

I've been a lawyer for 25 years. So, you play it out. You could still be a lawyer and sell the law firm, couldn't you? You sell it for a million bucks. You split it. >> Yeah. I don't I don't know that I want to continue practicing law. It would be nice not to have to work anymore, but like I don't >> You guys have retire. You said 3 million is your total nest egg, including the house. Is that right?

>> No, the house and the um law firm are separate. >> Are separate. Okay. So, what's the 3 million in?

um stocks um uh let's see 401ks like

Roth that but he's kind of controlled all that like I just I got married to him and let him just take over. So um yeah another thing I probably wish I would have done differently. >> Yeah. >> So you guys need to be aligned otherwise you can't really make any moves. It sounds like >> uh he just thinks there's nothing to worry about and I'm like >> Yeah. Because I guess the question is is say let's just pretend you sell the law for firm say he passes away tomorrow.

Okay. We'll just like, >> sorry, not to be horrible, but No, >> I get it. I get it. >> Um, you sell the law firm for a million, you got three million, that's two, that's 4 million, >> divide it in half, 2 million's going to the kids, 2 million's going for to you.

So, the question is, Jennifer, to you, if it was invested and you were able to

get to that 2 million, you were able to live off of that and what it would bring

um per year, could you do that? I mean, it's two, that'd be what, 10%? If you pulled 100 grand out a year, could you live off of that? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we've always lived within our means and I think that's why we've been able to stay out of debt, unlike most of our friends and >> and so so I feel good about it. I mean, we've done everything right. I just feel I mean, the world kind of looks scary to me now in a way that it didn't before.

>> Sure. Okay. Yeah. Well, so I think from a from a very basic numbers perspective,

we know you're going to be okay with if if something happened tomorrow. Now the question is nothing is going to happen probably tomorrow knock on wood but you know there's no diagnosis there's nothing like you know in the in the urgent near future. So the next question is what is the next to George's question what he said earlier you know the next 5 to 10 years what's ideal for you from a money perspective I think you would say run some numbers and just be like okay >> you know I think I'd feel more comfortable if there was three million that I you know if we could build it up to whatever like maybe a numbers perspective what that would make you feel even more peace >> um from a from a career standpoint you're 54 is what you said and >> and I don't know if you want to work for four more years and Maybe you still and you take a salary still and be like, "Yeah, it'd be great to be working for four more years.

I want to get paid for my work." >> I'd love to. >> And then we sell it in five years. I don't know. Like kind of just mapping out some dreaming.

And it would be great if he would be involved in that too, right? You can do it yourself, but it also would be fun to go to a nice dinner and get a bottle of wine and be like, "Hey, let's just dream for the next five to 10 years. What do we want life to look like?" Because he's gonna be 82 >> in 10 years.

>> he'll be old enough to run for president. That'll be really fun.

>> Oh god. I would kill him first.

>> I He's pretty unbothered by all of this.

He's just like, I think you worry too much. You'll be fine. And >> okay, so that to me is Yeah, that's a breakdown in communication from him because he doesn't have to understand your fear, but he at least needs to empathize and hear it out and actually meet you in that, right? And that's more of a relational marriage moment.

half of our money going away to adult kids. And and I know that's between him and me. You know what I mean? It's just like they don't have anything to worry about.

They're in their 30s and early 40s. I'm not. And I helped build this practice to where it is now. They didn't.

>> Do you guys have a will and trust that lays this all out and maybe you can make some adjustments with an estate attorney? >> Yes, we do. And we have made some adjustments to it. Before it was like 30%.

It was like a third, a third, a third. Me and them both girls.

you're the one that built it, helped him build it. >> Get the law firm and the house, but it's the cash and everything else that you know and and then cash is important to me if something happened to him tomorrow. I mean, law firm is only as good as >> someone's gonna pay for it when you sell it. You know, having cash >> 100%. Do you guys have kids together?

Did y'all have kids together? >> No, I don't have kids. >> Okay. >> I'm a stepmom. >> Okay. Yeah, because and again I know the blended family people do it so many different ways. Um >> it's more complicated for sure. >> It is. But the natural progression because y'all don't you don't have kids yourselves is that it goes to you >> and then when you pass it goes to the girls, right? That would be the natural >> I think it should be.

>> Yeah. >> And to your point, they're doing fine.

Like if he passes at 82, they're going to be multi multi-millionaires by then, not even needing this money. >> How's your relationship with the girls?

>> Great. It's wonderful. But I mean this would be a problem. I mean it I mean money I've just seen it. It just tears people apart. But >> no, I've never expressed that I feel any sort of way about it. I've just told him this is really unnecessary when I'm in a

different age bracket and they both are married to very wealthy men. They don't need the money. >> Does he does he get this like what you're saying to all of us with your amount of like passion and absoluteness?

Do you give that to him? Does he see that side of you? >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Okay. She's like, "Probably more than what I'm doing." >> But is he just hard-headed and stubborn and goes, "Nah, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Everything's fine." >> 1,000%. Yeah.

>> Okay. He probably uses that term at 72.

>> I mean, yeah. I hate to say, Jennifer, that to me that's a breakdown in marriage communication because you have a husband that you are legitimately you're a intelligent woman that's communicating very clearly and you are getting completely um pushed aside. No, what do they call it? Go. Not ghosted. You're getting >> what do they call it? a word for that. >> Yeah. What do the kids say? Where they're like, I'm not we're that didn't that didn't happen. What do they call that? >> Wow. You're showing your age now.

>> Get ready. Uh >> what do the kids say? >> Next next segment I'm going to remember the word. But that's what's happened to Jennifer. And that's a marriage breakdown. >> Start with that first.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we're

taking your calls at8255225.

Up next we have Emma in Minneapolis. Hi

Emma, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I am a senior in high school. I'm freshly 18 years old. Um, and I got into

my dream college and I don't know how to tell my parents.

>> Wow. I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good. So, give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

Um, so my dream school for my whole life

has been um University of Northwestern

St. Paul.

>> Whole life. Since you were zero years old, you're like, "This is on my my dream Pinterest board." >> Is that That's a priv is that a private school? >> Yes, it's private and Christian.

>> Yep. How much is that tuition?

>> It's about 38,000 a year.

>> Okay.

Um, okay. So, what have you and your

parents talked about when it comes to college?

>> Um, so I've known for a very long time

that my parents were not going to help us were not going to help me with college. Um, I'm the oldest of six kids and we live on just my dad's income.

>> Okay? And so they don't want me to go there

because they don't want me to go into

student loan debt, which I understand.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> 100%. >> But I haven't >> I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying, "Yep, we agree with your parents. We we are." Um, and

so you've not told them because you're

gonna go and you're going to go take on

essentially over four years $160,000.

>> What I haven't told them is I got

>> Yeah. >> What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

>> Oh, well that's great. Okay. So, how much does that cover?

Um, it covers about $44,000

over all four years.

>> Okay. >> So, you're down to like you'll owe 120 or something. What's the number?

>> It's $11,000 a year for all four years.

So, I'm down to like $105,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you have saved?

>> I actually do not have a savings account. I have been um helping my

parents with the bills and stuff. I work for >> So, they're struggling financially?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Oh, wow. And you're working part-time and that money that you're working for is going to the household?

>> Yes. >> Was this a something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a hey, if you're going to live under a roof, you got to help around cuz times are tough.

>> No, it's kindness.

>> Okay. Okay. And they're and they're and they're they're taking your money.

>> I mean, they're >> Yes and no. Um they So, I contribute I

help pay um for groceries and stuff and

I am aware that some of the money that

I'm paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me. I just don't know how much that is.

>> So, we can get some clarity on that. We got to know if it's a,000 or 10,000.

>> I think if my math is right, it should

be around 8,000.

>> And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

>> I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Well, I hate to say it. I mean, I know there's, you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but

asking an 18-year-old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me. Um, so I would I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account. But I would ask them tonight because it is October and if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early ad. I mean, it's what you you're doing.

You're getting college um you're you sent out college applications. You're getting the letters in. you're figuring out your next steps and you do that around this time.

next nine months of like what you have to work with and staying within that.

So, um, I want to be really kind because

I really appreciate the dream school. I know that, you know, you've thought about it and all of it, but there is a

sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want. And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talked to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that. And so I

would implore you that your friends

Rachel and George can tell you in the real world when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma. They really don't. Some some care that you have a four-year degree. I mean, that's a I think a great um thing to have, you know. So, I I think that's great, but people don't care and they don't, you know, that the name of the school and all of that. It is a it is not usually a sign that

you're going to be successful and get a

job that's going to then carry you for

throughout your adulthood and going

$120,000 or $105,000.

Um I think it's a little bit I think it's going to end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and book everything. Um >> what are you studying?

I was planning on double majoring in

pastoral ministry and communications.

>> Emma, >> Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making 53 $58,000 a year

>> and he's been doing a long successful worship leader. It would take you like seven to eight years to pay this off.

>> No. No. Please, please, please no.

>> What do you What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job.

like if I could just do this job, it would be a dream.

>> Um, summer camp director.

>> Okay. >> For like summer camp.

>> I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. >> I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what?

You need >> experience at a summer camp where you work your way >> that you can do for free. >> So, this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis because here's what let me play this out and you can go watch the B and future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll help under help you understand some of what we're talking about.

My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out. >> So you're going to have to go get a job. You're going to have to end up being, you know, an an administrative assistant or something. I mean, which is not bad, but you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years for for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need.

You don't you don't need it, >> right? >> Um, >> now, would it be a great time going to the school? I think so.

experience? I don't think it is at this point. Now, if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go, good for you. Go for it.

But I just I I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18 and it was 50 grand a year for 4 years at going to a film school. And I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, "Please don't do this, young man." >> Yeah. Your future's going to be bright without scripture, Emma.

Every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now, it's not a sin. If you end up going, you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right?

It's not a sin.

mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse.

It's you are a slave to the lender. It is not wise. Go read Proverbs. Go read Proverbs. What God has set before you.

And before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom. And figure out how much is in that account cuz I think you can go to a community college even for a little bit if you need to.

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>> Up next we have I think it's G in Los Angeles. Is it G?

>> Yeah, it's G. Thank you so much for taking my call. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Well, I did want some advice uh speaking on on behalf of my father. I I wanted to know what it takes to start that conversation of retirement for him. Um I'm 31 years old and uh he's uh I'm 65

67 years old now and he's been a longaul

truck driver for almost 40 years now.

>> It's hard work. >> Um >> no, he's been working very very hard. I think maybe three or four days out of the month we've I've seen him my whole entire life. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. >> Yeah. No, he's Yeah, he's worked very hard for for what he's done. But um as a

long haul truck driver, a lot of it is paycheck to paycheck work. But what he's done very well for himself is live life a little bit frugally and understand what it took for him. And what he did um

was buy some farms in central California

that have all been paid off now and stuff. And I'm just kind of looking for a way to start that conversation with him. >> Wow. Does he want to retire?

>> Yeah, that's one of the bigger caveats about this. He is a workhorse. And as a matter of fact, he just came back from New York today all the way back to central California and he already picked up a load for Friday to take off.

>> Wow. Um, so >> is he the kind of guy is he like a Dave Ramsey? He's just going to work until he's no longer >> retire. >> Absolutely. Yeah, that is his demeanor and that's something I've never got in his way of. But here's the thing about long haul truck drivers. Um, it's kind

of hard on the sons because it is a huge

uh it's it's normal for a son having to get a call somewhere and fly to a different state in the US and have to find out that something happened to their father on the road and they have dangerous >> and that's one of my largest fears. I mean, he's in great health. He's not >> he's not the Yeah. He >> it's a quit while you're ahead situation and you're wanting him to just quit and retire and he has the assets and resources to do so. based on these farms that are creating income.

>> So, that's kind of the confusion on my end, too. I'm just trying to figure out how we can use all the work that he's done. And yes, over the past 40 years, we've um accumulated over 110 acres, me

and him together. Um and uh there are

four different properties. We have different um houses on each property that also give us um rental income. Mhm.

>> Um albeit those houses are um humble

homes, they're in migrant homes and they're surrounded by farms too. So they

give us a little bit of income, but we don't really rely on it. And then um since he's been driving truck, we've been leasing out our farms ever since.

>> Okay. >> Um that gets that gets our property taxes taken care of pretty much at the end of the year and other expenses. But >> okay, so if he quit today doing the truck stuff, how much income would he bring in from all these other sources?

So, um, we get about $8,000 a month on,

um, >> And you're saying we are y'all 50/50 in this? Like you've put in 50%, he's put in 50%, or has he put in more?

>> No, no, it it's all his, but uh, we we do handle everything as kind of like as a family, but he's the boss at the end of the day. So, I should correct myself and say he does. >> Your name isn't on any of these properties? >> No, actually, I put it in Well, he's put it in a trust um, since then that he's the executive of. He bought these farms under his father's name who had passed away. >> Okay. So, it's all under his control.

And are you working outside of all this full-time? >> Correct. Yes. So, I kind of moved out of it and I moved to Southern California and I'm an engineer here.

>> Okay. Right. >> So, you have your own life, your own income. >> So, the 8,000 per month is what he would live on then if he did retire.

>> More or less. Correct. >> Okay. Okay. >> And that's enough to cover his bills. It sounds like being a frugal guy. >> Does he have a home? Yeah. Is he debtree? Is his home debtree? paid off.

>> So all the homes and farms are all debtree. Um so he's bought all of these homes and farms at a very

his primary home. Is it paid off?

>> Everything is paid off.

>> That's amazing. >> All of the Yeah. All of the properties together come out to about 6 million in in in value. >> Incredible. So he could retire tomorrow.

Then your real question is how do I convince him to stop working so hard?

>> Oh yeah, that's part of the Yeah, that's part of the issue. the finances. Should I ask him? >> Yeah. And and should I even ask him?

Because another fear of mine is what happens to a gentleman when he does retire. They slow down.

>> Yeah. >> And >> and I do wonder too, Gee, if there's if you guys can work, and I don't know what

this would look like. could probably would getting getting a third opinion, a financial adviser. But if you have $6 million worth of something, but you're only making eight grand a month, um,

man, there I mean, you could be making 600,000 a month or I'm sorry, a year versus a better return on that. >> Yeah, the return is not great. And and and again that I may I'm speaking just from a numbers perspective, not like a legacy thing that you guys love the land or whatever it may be, but there may be a move that you guys sell two, you know, half of this three million in real estate, three million in the market and he's, you know, living off, I don't know, 300,000 a year is what he could be.

He doesn't need that, I'm sure.

>> Yeah. So, I just wonder if there's a way to bring more money to you guys with this investment. Um, because it is worth so much. But again, you may y'all may not want to do that, but that's one thing to be thinking about >> and maybe to diversify. You know, it's great to have real estate and farm, but you may want to have some in investments, too, just to hedge your bets.

>> And my first uh solution was, hey, like why don't we start farming the farms again and stop leasing them out to tenant farmers that we've been doing for so long. And but he he's had one

different, you know, business adventure a long time in the past and he's never done that again. And ever since then, he worked to pay off these farms.

>> So he got burnt one time and now he's he's got a bad taste. >> Never ever again. And then you did bring up a good a point too. It is a legacy thing for you know the son to sell off the farms or something like that. It's just completely like uh how would I say

>> it's too sentimental.

>> Right. Right. And that's not something Yeah. Especially in our culture, we don't >> What is your culture? Can I ask? What's the background here? >> I'm a a North Indian Punjabi.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. I got you.

>> We al Yeah, we also have farms and property in in um India as well, but those are completely different.

>> Okay, cool. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that makes sense. And I would so I would like to find a way to keep the farms. I mean, use the value and the equity that he's built up some type of way with um since buying these farms and

and may be able to live off of that or

give him some type of good um I guess uh presentation of hey

this is what it looks like and it's super secure and this is how you would live without having to.

>> Has he ever listened to you? And I mean that respectfully. Like has he actually taken any of your advice and went, "Yeah, I'll do that." >> Absolutely not. I actually did with one of the farms myself a 1031C with one

farm and I split it into two which we which now consists of the two properties that are in the trust and >> he didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half, two years until he started.

So underneath all that hard >> I don't think you have you're in a position to influence you know him retiring. That's just the hard facts is just like you can do all you want to do to have a dad in your life and have him retire and be healthy.

>> He's a grown man. >> And it's such a hard belief. I think it's human nature to think, okay, I'm going to go into this important conversation for this other person because you're wanting the other person to make a different decision than what they're making. And you're and there's a and it's a belief that I've kind of I kind of feel like is a lie of like if I just say it the right way, >> the right, >> if I present it the right way, it's gonna click and it's gonna click.

And I just I don't know maybe I'm cynical but I know for myself I'm like it you just have to get to this point in life you're like I just I cannot control other people like I can't >> and maybe I can try one great conversation but you're not going to change his mind. You're not. And so if for your own peace of mind G if you want to do this and present something to him >> for yourself to have peace to say okay at least I gave it my best shot you can for you. But you got to go into that conversation with zero expectation that he is going to change.

believe that you're somehow going to convince him because it's just they yeah

if you don't want to change if he's not curious or interested it's not going to happen. So >> here's the headline. This is the old quote. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still and that's just he's 65. This is all he knows. He's not interested in your opinion unfortunately. >> And he's done great so far. I think like you're saying, you see that there's potential that he could be doing more.

Um, but nothing's on fire here. But again, as a son, if you feel like I just have to say this for my own peace of mind, >> you can present him with something. But, um, I would just continue to nurture that relationship and congratulate him on the work that he's done cuz >> you're a good son, man. >> Absolutely.

[Music]

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When it comes to wills, George, especially online wills, there's a lot of questions around this. Uh, one question that we get all the time is, "How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?" So, usually if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, an online will will be a great option for you. Another question we get is, "What do I need to do to start my online will?" Um, and when you're going to do it, you're going to have to figure out some questions and answer some for yourself, like, "Who's going to get my stuff uh when I pass?

Who's going to take care of my children if they're minors? uh who do you want making decisions for you if you're incapacitated? Also, we get the question, is an online will legally valid?

make sure it's valid in your state. So, a lot of wills are state specific. So, make sure that's the key for you. And then lastly is why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made by a lawyer. So, they're usually more convenient. They're less expensive.

It takes less time to set up. And so again, if you if everything that you have is worth less than a million dollars, an online will is a great place to go. And if you want to know more about this and your specific situation, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/wills

and you can take a quiz online to find out which will is best for you. Up next,

we have Sarah in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi,

Sarah. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

So, my husband and I were both physicians in surgical specialties. Um, he's an only child. He has immigrant parents, and apparently he had promised them when he was young to support them, uh, once he graduates. And they bought a $1.2 million home a couple months ago, and they've been guilting him into fully paying their mortgage and expecting more money sooner.

>> Wow. So, this was like cart blanch, blank check, richy rich. We're going to do whatever we want and you're going to fund it. Was that the agreement when he was four years old? >> So, right. So, when he was young, he's like really >> 12. He's like, I'll take care of you. Like, good. >> Exactly.

You guys brought me here and you know, I want to give back to you. But as he got older, he realized like, you know, life costs money and he doesn't want to give it all away. But they called after and they're like, well, you promised, you know, you better give us this money. And so he did, you know, and and obviously feels horrible about the way it went down.

he wanted to gift it, not feel forced into it. Um, and I just think like financially this doesn't make sense for us. We have three young kids. We live in a 1500 square ft, you know, 300,000 uh dollar home, so we're living very modestly.

They drive luxury cars. Um, his mother has never held a job in her life. So, she's been a stay-at-home wife for the last 18 years.

feel like we're being blackmailed by his parents.

>> Yeah. >> Emotional They're immigrants. They came in. >> Yes. >> Where are they from originally?

>> They're from Korea. >> Okay. Okay. >> And there just an expectation that, hey, we we raised you. We gave you this great life and now the tables are turning. You take care of us. >> Are they in a place at all, Sarah, to to

live this lifestyle themselves? Have they saved? And, you know, have they been successful? >> So, so his father's been in and out of jobs, but I think they do relatively well. I mean, they've been able to fund, you know, luxury cars until now. We don't have information about their finances. And my thoughts are, if we're going to be funding you, I'd like to know what's going on with your finances.

If I'm expected to take all of those on once you once his dad retires in a year or two. >> Yeah. I mean, for sure. Well, this is

causing a rift in your own marriage because you're clearly getting resentful of your own husband for, you know, letting this all happen and you not having a say in what happens with y'all's money, >> right? >> So, you talk to him about it like, "Hey, we need to put a stop to this. You need to talk to your parents. We need to have boundaries around this." >> Yeah.

The main issue is that he made this decision and gave them the money before talking to me. Um, so he's just been sending it out. Um, >> how much money are we talking here? So, he's sending them $6,000 a month.

and his plan is to eventually give them 12,000.

>> Good. Gracious.

>> A month. >> How much do you guys make a month?

>> Um, like like out of like like what comes into our >> What's your take home pay? >> Yeah. >> Our our take-home pay monthly is like 46. >> Okay. And so he's giving uh you know a 13% parent tax every month. Yes.

>> To support that. >> But we have we both have we both come from like >> Yeah. are well >> 46 a month is what you're making.

>> 46,000 a month. Yeah. He's a um a neurosurgeon. >> So, he makes a decent salary, but we both have incredibly high med school debt. >> Oh. >> How much do you have left in debt?

>> We have all of it. We're hoping for the 10-year repayment, but who knows? So, we each are like about 30 340 each. So,

>> 340 each. Okay.

>> Each. Yes. Because his parents didn't help him. I come from very simple means.

my parents are, you know, don't have a

lot of money at all, which is another kind of sore point. Why are we giving your parents who live a decent life all this money and my parents are living like, you know, paycheck to paycheck and have never requested a penny, you know, and we haven't given them.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and I've supported us for the last

three years as an attending physician while he finished training. and we used all of my money to pay all of our bills, to, you know, fund our lifestyle, to even gift money away. I haven't been able to gift my parents any money that I'd love to, but how now we're handing out, you know, >> well, the the main issue here is you guys are not united on your financial goals, even the values of the family, and he's been doing things behind your back. So, there's first a marriage issue, and then once we deal with that, we can then deal with he can deal with the parents.

But you getting in the middle of talking to the in-laws, I don't think that's gonna work out, >> right? >> And so, he needs to have a hard conversation probably over a long period of time. I don't know if it's gonna happen overnight that he just cuts them off, but I think there needs to be like a, hey, we can't do this. We have our own debts to pay.

We have our own kids we're trying to raise. We don't want to put this on our kids to have to fund our life because we're broke because we gave it all to you guys and we're going to need to do this for a season. Sarah, yeah, you and your husband, you guys really need to sit down and paint >> a picture of what you want your life to look like in the next 5 to 10 years. You know, you guys want to be, I'm sure, get the student loans paid off.

Um, >> you want, you know, that's a goal that you're going to have. You, you, you want a goal to, I don't know, pay off the house, like, I don't know, like you, you're a nuclear family.

creating some goals of what you're shooting for because you're making obviously an incredible income. So, you

don't want it just to like disappear, you know, >> whether it's going to the in-laws or not and you want it to go as far as possible because there is major um things that you can do in your life with this income. And one of those could be I'm just saying with an aster could be >> giving, you know, being generous and giving some away to whoever. Fill in the blank, right? But but you don't even know where the money's going, what's happening because you and your husband are not united.

>> This is what we're doing with money. And in that conversation is again, which I'm sure you have expressed to him >> your disdain and how pissed you are that

all of this is happening. And it makes no sense. It's not logical. It's unfair to take a 23-year-old son's word and hold it over his head for the rest of his life and their life.

Like, none of this is logical. So, let's just say it out loud and we need to get on the same page. And then from there, as a united front, >> then that's when he needs to go and talk to his parents. But I >> I think that's the second issue.

Well, we did have a very intense like serious conversation and his take was, "Well, we'll just give your parents money, too." So, I think I guess it's our goals are not aligned. Like, he's not looking to save big. He's looking to give out all of our money. >> Yeah. And that's Yeah. And that's not okay with you. And you're part of the household. So, your voice is just as important >> um as his. So, how is he just giving them money? Do does he have a checking account that his money goes into?

We put half of our money, half of our paychecks go into our joint account and half of it is in our own personal. Um, so he was just sending it directly from her. >> So that's a breakdown. Do you know what I'm saying?

Everything needs to go into one account. Y'all need to close your separate accounts. You guys need one account that you're functioning out of so that you are a united front. And this is the fracture that happens when couples, you know, start to separate finances because it's quote unquote his money is what he believes.

And he's emotionally believing that because emotionally it is his money. it's in a different account. Your name's not on it. >> And so what that does, it starts to break down the relationship.

And that's what we're seeing right now. And so, um, that probably will make him feel very uncomfortable, that piece of advice, to to be united. But, but I think it's a deeper goal for your marriage. Do you know what I mean?

Like the health of that is really important. And then out of the health of the marriage, we can make these big, >> you know, decisions that are going to create conflict with family, but at least we're doing it united. And so, >> let the money goals be the villain instead of you. and say, "Hey, we have big money goals we're trying to achieve.

We got to pay off all this debt. We're not going to wait 10 years. We're going to do 18 months." Well, now all of a sudden, you don't have the money to give them, do you? >> Yeah.

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>> Today's question comes from Hayden in California. I'm getting married soon and my relatives who can't attend the wedding have asked for my Venmo info to send a monetary wedding present. I know that these relatives are in a lot of debt, and I've tried to encourage them to work the baby steps. Is it appropriate to accept a gift from someone who is deep in student loan and other debt, or should I decline the gift?

It feels wrong to allow someone to send money when I know they can't afford to come to the wedding. And it also feels wrong to take money from someone who doesn't have financial peace. What should I do?

>> So, it uh my answer is simple. You take the money because it's none of your business. It's just you don't you don't block a blessing. Someone wants to give.

It's more shaming. It's so shaming to be like I can't accept this gift because you are so broke. >> You are so broke. >> You should be embarrassed you thought just it's it's up to them.

>> I agree. I know. I think you just smile and say thank you and yeah, you take it.

I mean >> I have people in my life who are overly generous who I'm like they need financial help. Why are they being generous? And I learned to just let go.

Yes. >> Cuz it was me drinking a poison. They're joyful. They're having a great time.

let them figure it out and if they need help, I'm here for them. >> Yes. >> That's good. That's good.

>> But that's that's I think a sign of growth and maturity when you learn to not feel like you need to >> intervene. Yes.

like I would be more excited if the reaction was like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Thank you so much. So, just be grateful >> and like George says, know your business. >> And I don't like looking back at my wedding gifts, I don't know the financial situation of everybody who attended and what they spent and could they afford it and did they put it on a credit card to go on the flight to come to the wedding. >> Totally. Totally. >> I don't know. That's only God knows.

>> Only God knows. >> God knows the heart.

>> It's a good question though. Uh, next we have Brianna in Grand Rapids. Hi,

welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks for having me. I am so excited to finally get through.

>> Oh, we're glad you called. How can we help today?

>> Okay, so I am a newly single mom. I'm

planning to buy a salon business that's in a lease uh leased space that currently has six booth renters. I have the cash to buy it outright, but I'm wondering if I should use my savings or finance part of it to keep some cash on hand. >> Okay. Um financially, where are you at?

How much debt do you have?

>> Consumer debt. >> I have about 12,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. >> Um and I am leasing a car which I kind

of got >> put into that but yeah.

>> Okay. >> About it. >> Okay. And how much is in savings?

>> I have about 160 >> 160,000 in savings. And how much is the business going to be worth or how much how much would you buy it for?

Um, we agreed to 50K.

>> 50,000?

>> Yes. >> What exactly do you own for the 50,000?

>> I'm sorry, what was that? >> What is the 50,000 get you?

>> Okay, so worth because it's a booth rent

salon. Um, that is the current revenue

that she's making off of the booth renters and retail.

>> Is that per year? >> Year. >> Okay. Yeah. So, it's costing you one year of of leases to buy the business.

>> Yes, that is what we agreed on.

>> That seems reasonable.

>> Okay. >> Does it seem too good to be true? So, >> is there something you feel like is not there? She's not telling you.

>> No. No. I feel really great about it.

I'm very fortunate and I do work in the business. You know, it's been established for about six years. It's in a great location. Again, I have a great reput uh reputation relationship with the other renters. So, >> and will you be in charge? >> Great. And exactly what I need.

>> And if one renter decides to leave, are you in charge of filling that spot?

>> Yes. Everything would be on my hands if, let's say, Yeah. they all decide to turn around and leave. Yeah.

>> Do you feel um competent to do that?

Like, do you know this world and you have connections? You could probably figure out how to find somebody to lease out that remaining booth if someone were to leave. >> I do. Yeah. Yeah, I feel I feel really good about it overall. I think what really is getting me a little >> um scared is the financial piece of it,

right? I have the money in my savings.

I've just been saving saving. I wanted to buy a house this year, but sadly on my income as a self-employed

person, it's a lot harder than I thought

because I wasn't showing a lot of my income. So, I am renting. Um, obviously

I would love to buy a home one day. I'm hoping to do so with adding income, you know, this Installon business income into my income.

>> But >> yeah, how much would you make >> if you did take this on? How much would you make in what you're doing now plus owning it? How much would you bring in a year?

>> I would say close to 100K.

>> Okay. So you make 50 on your own, you get 50 from the leases, you're up to a six figure salary, and then you can one year in, you'll get your money back essentially if everything goes perfectly, >> right? >> So year two, it's pure. >> Sounds amazing.

And and I honestly thought that you were going to say, I have 160,000 in savings and it's going to cost 160,000. And I was going to give you a different answer, but the fact that it's 50,000, you'll still have 110,000. And then when you pay off your student loans, which I want you to do, you'll have $98,000 in savings.

take part of that 98 and get a I would

get a six-month emergency fund as a single mom and you're starting this new business. I would put six months of expenses aside in a totally separate high yield savings account. Um you can open up one with like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're amazing, but I would just put it in a totally different spot and then whatever you have remaining, I personally would start working to use that for my down payment that maybe I'm going to have in the next two to three years.

>> Okay? And the other thing, the other piece of the puzzle is this leased car.

You may want to look at the buyout amount. And if it's, you know, if it's way less than half your income and you love the car, I would just buy it out outright and not deal with this lease anymore. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> It's going to, you know, stop the bleeding as soon as possible to get out of that lease versus hanging on to it until it's done and then owning nothing at the end of it. >> Yeah. And can I just say well done.

>> Yeah. >> To have 160,000 just saved up on the side. I mean, seriously, incredible.

you're a hard worker. You know what you're doing. I think this it sounds from what you've presented to us like a great opportunity and it makes sense.

You have the money. Uh it's not wiping out your savings or anything. The risk feels low. >> You're not riding on the edge all you still got some cushion there. >> Yeah, it sounds good. So that's so great. All right, real quick. Let's go to Mason in Colorado Springs. Hey Mason,

get right to your question.

>> All right. Hey guys. Um, so Michael question is, so I'm going through a divorce right now. >> I forgot about >> No, it's it's actually we're it's probably the best divorce you could.

We're still like really good friends. We talk all the time. It's just >> it didn't work out. But >> Okay. >> So I got about 15,000 in debt from the

divorce. >> Um, and then I have $10,000 of my own or

like 9,000. So 5,000 of that is in student loans and sadly the other 4,000

is in collections. So, my question is

going to be, what do I start paying off first? Do I start paying off the collections, then the student or pay off my ex? Like, I'm trying to figure out what to start with for the the baby step. >> Yeah.

Did you say so? You said 5,000 in student loans, 4,000 in collections, and how much was for the divorce? 15 >> 15,000. >> Okay.

Okay. >> What's the agreement for the divorce as far as this payout? Is it like payment per month?

Um, no. Just per month. Just per month.

Like I said, it's it's a really I guess if you want to call it clean divorce, it's really good. >> So, is it like a thousand per month for 15 months? What was the agreement?

>> Um, it's it's it's about 9.87 is the

total per month. >> So, and that's just minimums that I have

to pay her uh until it's paid off. But we it we have agreed that if I pay off

my portion first, that's totally fine, too. >> Okay. Mason, what's in the collections?

Is it credit cards?

>> Yeah. Uh, two credit cards.

>> Okay. >> And then like a personal loan.

>> Okay. What I would do is I would call the collections um agency or you know

they're and you can probably talk them down 4,000. I bet you could get pennies on the dollar for hon,000 bucks or 1500 to settle in. >> Settle it. Get it in writing. Get it settled. Um. Yep. And I would just work down the I would work down the uh debt snowball. So I would do the collections.

I would do the student loans and then that $1,000 a month, be paying that, stay current on it, and then when you get to that 15,000, put as much as you can to get out of that divorce debt as fast as possible.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this next hour with

George Camel, my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour and we're taking your calls at8255225.

Up next we have Jackie in Cincinnati. Hi

Jackie, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm in a situation where uh my husband is threatening to remove me from all the accounts, the credit cards, and threatened to leave me with zero. Um,

he's been pretty verbally, emotionally, and financially abusive, and then last night crossed over into physical abuse, and he was arrested. Um, but I'm wondering, my question is how to protect myself. Uh, his he's he's a finance guy

and he's really interested in laughing his way of knowledge. uh against my ignorance and taking uh full advantage and um putting me in a place of when he

says I I'll need to go prostitute myself in order to have money, which is terribly sick. So >> um I'm just wondering what to do from here. I >> Oh my gosh. Okay.

So, are you safe right now? >> I am safe right now. Um he just walked in uh from jail, so I'm sitting in my car. Um but he is the sole bread winner right now.

We our our kids are now in college. I'm going to be heading back to work, but right now he's a soul bread winner. >> Okay. And you'll be loggering up, I'm assuming.

>> I I this I know it sounds terribly foolish, but I don't I told him I don't want a broken home. I don't want broken hearts. I don't want a separate house, splitting belongings. I don't want to miss any time with my kids.

>> But Jackie, he has opted out of this marriage in every way, shape, and form.

Jackie, you're not Yeah. This is this is not a marriage anymore.

>> Correct. Correct. Agreed.

>> Okay. And your kids are they're they are in college >> and their mom >> is going to make a really brave hard decision, >> but she's going to make a decision that is best for her. I mean, Jackie, this is horrible. >> It's terrible.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you lose love, respect, communication, trust, you don't have a marriage. Safety.

>> Safety, Jackie. >> Provision and protection. I don't even know you. He just walked in from jail into the house that you both still live in.

>> Can you drive away? Like I wouldn't be in the same vicinity as this guy. I would go to a friend's house, a family member. >> Do you have good friends and family around? >> No. No. That's another thing. I he I think he's shooken up because I've never taken action before, but when he shoved me last night into a door, um I I had no

I that was the time the first time that he took it to physical and I I can't

live with myself. Um if I knew if I my kids were ever in that situation, I I had to do it. I could not live with myself. If >> there's one thing we know about abusers, they don't have a change of heart. They're just going to continue it if you let it happen. And so the fact that you're still there really scares me right now. Well, I had I it was my choice to say he

he can come out and work because he's the only one uh with a job. So, he he's

under, you know, he has rules to not

harass and things like that. So, >> well, the rules don't matter if he controls all the purse strings and you get zero dollars.

>> Yeah, Jackie, >> that's what I'm worried about. That's what I'm worried about. >> So, is your name on the accounts?

>> My name is on the accounts. So for the credit card, it's I I'm an authorized user, but he's the full >> Okay. Your checking account where his income comes in, are you on that account? >> Is joint. Correct. >> Perfect. Okay. If I if I were in your

shoes, Jackie, I would take I would be in that car and when you get off the phone with us, I would drive to the bank

and I would create a new checking account and I would take half of the money that is in that joint checking account and I would put it over to your to your own checking account that he has zero access to and I would have it I would have an amount of money and then I would drive

to a hotel and I would get a room for the night and until, you know, I can get with friends and family. I mean, I I I

don't see how it's never going to go back to normal. And so, what you've been living in is sadly, I feel like, is what we hear from a lot of victims of domestic violence is that you become almost used to it. And when you're sitting here telling us two strangers, I mean, George and I, our mouths were just dropped open um because of just the insane situation that you're in. And I don't feel like you I don't feel like you see it. And you deserve better than

this, Jackie. >> Oh, I know that. It's it's it's I just don't want to break my kids hearts.

>> Jackie, staying with a dangerous man is breaking their hearts.

>> And they don't know any of it. So, >> yeah. Jackie, I mean, >> would you want this for your daughter? What would you tell your daughter right now? >> Never. >> Okay. >> That was my question that set them off.

Yeah. >> Okay. So, Jackie, answer your own question. >> I think they're sharper than you think. I think they're catching a lot of what's going on and they're taking a lot of cues. And right now, you have an opportunity to show them the kind of person you are.

>> And we do not promote divorce. That is something that I mean I it has to be to a point where there is there is of no return. And everything you've just said in this call is that for me 100%. 100%.

>> Would you be okay if your daughter was staying in a relationship this abusive?

Would you tell her to? >> Well, that's why we're saying yes. And so, yes. So, you wouldn't do that. You wouldn't want this for your daughter. I don't want you to I don't want you to want this for yourself.

>> Correct. >> But you're right. The financials, this is where we always say the we always are about combining finances, but the red flag goes up with a couple of different things. If there's abuse, which check that off for your list, um, you know, if there's if there's addiction that's not being addressed, if there's things that you need to protect yourself, you need a separate account. >> Financial infidelity. You can't control his spending. What if he racks up a bunch of debt and your name is tied to that credit card?

>> Well, this is my second question is he opened a separate bank account last year because his mother sends him thousands of dollars that he can gamble and buy, you know, alcohol, drugs, and all that and he plays with that money and I can't access that. He could easily move the money. That's what I'm saying, Jackie. >> You need to create your own financial >> get off the phone. Get off the phone with us and you need to drive to the bank. remove your name from any account that you're on that's tied to him.

Freeze all of your credit with all three credit bureaus. You can call them up and have them freeze it. Go online and do it. And then create your own checking and savings accounts that you have full control over.

>> Okay? >> And I would honestly I would pack up my stuff and I would not be back in that house and I would be contacting an attorney for next steps.

>> That's another thing I I don't even know where to begin. and he thinks it's the funniest thing that he's just gonna he's just going to ruin me. And he thinks it's funny because he's in finance and I >> He thinks it's funny because he's an absolute >> and he knows that you're you're going to be a doormat and he knows you're going to come back and you're going to say, "Well, I don't want a broken home." He knows that he's holding all the cards and so you need to show him that you mean business like you did yesterday when he went to jail for the night, >> right?

>> And I think when he realizes, oh, she's not coming back. Oh, she created her own accounts. Oh, she took half the money. This is more serious than I thought.

>> Well, yeah. Our kids are adults, though.

Well, I guess it would be alimony. I don't know. >> Yeah. >> No idea. Yeah, >> there's laws that protect you here.

>> Yes, absolutely. >> And you're not a bad person for taking advantage of >> side and especially because there's a police report that's been filed. Um, I mean there you have a lot of weight right now for you to use in your favor, Jackie. And we we implore you to do

that. I mean, for for your own safety, Jackie, please. Um, >> I'd have a restraining order against this guy, let alone letting him walk back into my house after >> it's a manipulator, an abuser. It's every it's every red flag you could imagine, Jackie. And so, just hear that from two strangers that this is it's so clear to us. And my fear is that it's not clear to you. If you can, if wherever you are, Jackie, >> join a local church. Get a community around you who's willing to support you.

You need people in your corner right now. >> I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Call us back

um if you need anything.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. And so we are here to help you with the latest trend so that you can easily understand what is happening. So medium home prices have dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000

and a typical season shift as we fall as

we head into fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. So if you are in the buying market, you're in the you're in the green light. So, mortgage rates have also dropped slightly to 5.5%

in September, giving some buyers some breathing room. And since rates are unpredictable, the best time is when you are financially ready to buy a home, not just when rates drop. So, obviously, it's in your favor when that happens.

But if you are ready to buy a home, go ahead and get into the market. To learn more about the housing market tren housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home and you need some confidence, go to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. All right, let's go to Brian

in Syracuse, New York. Hi Brian, welcome

to the show.

>> Hey, good afternoon. Um, so hey, exactly

a month ago, I turned 40, decided it was time to stop making excuses and create a will. So I hopped on Mama Bear legal forms, knocked it out, good to go.

>> Great. >> Um, as I'm reviewing it, I feel like there are some gaps in I guess what I would want my plan to be. So my question

is, is there some sort of supplemental document or something where I can really spell it out like a toz? Um, and then

how do I have an age appropriate conversation with my kids there? I have a teen and a pre-teen. I can't imagine anything's going to happen anytime soon, but how do I begin to have those conversations so when it does happen, you know, there there's no surprises and it's just pretty straightforward and we're good. >> Yeah.

No, those are some great questions. as well.

>> Um, and pre-teen and teen, you know, they're I feel like they're always smarter than we give them credit for what they can and what they can handle, too. Um, so yeah, I do think it could be a good discussion. I mean, I feel like my parents did that. Um, I don't remember like a formal sitdown, but it sounds morbid, but I think we always knew who we were going to go to if something happened to mom and dad.

Like I think that was always kind of a known thing. And weirdly, I feel like it kind of gives you a little bit of security as a kid that I don't know because it's usually obviously people that you love. It was our aunt and uncle um for us.

again you're sharing it. you're not trying to scare them and just to say um you know mom and dad have been doing some planning and we want to bring you guys in just so that you're aware and if you have any more questions like we are here to answer and that's one thing I've learned with kids is you can give them you know some information and if they're ready for more they'll ask more questions and you can be there to be truthful and answer them but um yeah

that that's probably what I would do is just sit them down and just say hey we just want you guys to know that you know we've been doing some planning And as parents, we love you guys and love our

family and we want to protect as much as

we can. Um, if anything bad ever happens, and nothing probably bad is going to happen, but if it did, we did just want to let you guys know, you know, maybe who they're going, you know, who they would go to or what not. I don't know. That may sound kind of too blunt, but >> I mean, they do all kinds of drills in schools to prepare in case something should happen.

And so I think it's a good analogy to go, listen, we do the same for our life, for what would happen if something were to happen to us. Here's what would go on.

>> It's just, you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking I won't need this for another 50 years anyway, you know, I certainly hope, but it's just so it's it's just me. Um, and my brother is the executive.

Um, and you know, it's it's honestly it's a big thing like my house. um you

know, it would go to them, but they're 12 and 14. What in the world are they going to do with a house? >> Oh, sure. Well, it would be held by the executive until it's time. And once they're adults, then they would have access to those assets. And so, you know, there are situations as you get older and as you build more wealth, you can then move into a trust where you can get a little more fancy and complicated.

But a will can do a whole lot. I mean, you can add a whole lot of clauses in there. Just a detail. You add as much detail as you want.

>> Yeah. So maybe I need to go back through um because I can edit for still quite a while. Yeah. >> And uh add some more detail.

Yeah. That that's really the biggest thing. I don't think my net worth is high enough where a trust makes sense right now, >> but at the same time, I don't know that I would want to hand them the keys, >> you know, when they're 14 and 16. I mean, hopefully they're in their 16 >> and legally.

They wouldn't just like get a house. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so that would be something to think through, you know, if Yeah.

whether it is a home or any cash available >> when you would want that to be available to them, right? At what age? Um, would you want it specified for college? I mean, if you have college funds, yeah, like what all of that as as detailed as possible, I think is a gift to those if the will ever has to be activated that you're able to >> to looking for.

Yeah. I I think maybe I need to go back through and I could add some more detail. Yeah.

should the discussion be with the executive who'd be my brother. I trust him. He's great. The idea is I want it all in a document. So if something were to happen, there's just no questions.

It's just there in ink and then he can just execute on it. You know, it's it's >> not that I expect anything to be dramatic, but just so it's nice and clean, easy. >> Yes. Well, from a legal perspective, you can put as much in the will as possible.

And then and then this would not be necessarily as legal, but for him specifically, just as a level of communication, I mean, you could create a word document. Do you know what I'm saying? And be like, "Here, the will is going to take care of the legal side, but here are like my wishes, like more

specifically, directionally, if you don't want to put all that detail into the will, but the will can should be able to cover from a legal perspective exactly where you want things to go and custody of the kids and all of that." Um, but yeah, but for the for your brother, um, >> he'll manage the assets until they're adults. And so that's just part of it, and you can specify that in there.

>> Great. Cool. So, looks like I should go back and just do some more detail work, have that conversation with them, and y should be good. >> Yeah, for sure. And I think it's always a good idea to loop the person in who is

going to be helping. >> Yeah. No surprises. We're like, I put their name in there, but I didn't want to tell them. >> Yeah. Uncle Cody is now getting two kids and he's like, "Wait, what?" >> You want to make sure they actually are willing and able and agree to it. That's That's part of it >> for sure. >> But you're doing the right thing, Brian. I'm really proud of you, man. >> All right, let's go to Jada in Atlanta.

Hi. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, Rachel. Hi, George.

>> Hello. How can we help today?

Um, so I was wondering if I should pause

the baby steps and save up some money

for like a new car and some other things. Um, just some background, I'm

recently divorced and I have a 2-year-old, so I don't have a lot of time to do >> like side hustles. I do try to do like Uber Eats and Door Dash, but there's not so much I can do. >> How much do you make, Jada, from your job? Um, I make about 55K a year.

>> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

>> I have about 47,000 in debt.

>> Okay. What are the What are those debts?

>> Um, about 3,000 is for medical bills.

Um, I have about 3,500 on a credit card.

I have $1,000 left on my transmission that I have to pay off cuz my car broke down a couple months ago. Mhm.

>> And then the rest is student loans.

About 35,000. >> 35,000. Okay, perfect.

>> Um, when you're doing your budget monthtomonth, do you have any margin at all? Like a couple hundred bucks even?

>> Um, maybe like two >> $200. It kind of varies.

>> And any savings?

>> No. >> No savings. Okay. Um, and how's your car

doing right now?

>> It's okay. Um, it's definitely not in

the best condition and it makes me want to get something else because I end up having to do like an oil change every two to two and a half months >> because it burns so much oil.

>> Um, >> so could you make this work for another 6 months or so and save up and get a different car? Cuz it I'd be okay with you pausing the steps to get you reliable transportation from A to B.

>> I think I could. I'm hoping I can honestly. I'm not sure, but I think so.

>> Yeah. Well, if it's pausing for a short period of time to see what if you can sell your car and save up maybe another extra thousand or so, put it with it.

That's great. But um but as long I mean, if you can put that money towards at least $1,000 savings, emergency um

savings I think is the number one goal before you go and try to replace the car. So, I try to get that $1,000 ASAP.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz and we've got a special guest on the debtree stage. It's Carrie. How you doing Carrie?

>> Doing good. >> So, a little birdie told me that you are work for U-Haul and they are smart dollar users. So, if you don't know, Smart Dollar is our financial wellness product that we created for organizations to for HR to have this as a benefit to their employees to help them get financial peace and take control of their money. And you have gone through that.

>> Yeah. >> Fantastic. Well, we're grateful you've joined us today. >> Yes.

>> Phoenix, Arizona. >> Okay. So, great. And how much debt have you paid off? >> 33,000. >> Amazing. What did that consist of?

>> That was 25,000 in a heliloc and about

8,000 in credit cards.

>> Oh, incredible. Well, I know some of your co-workers are probably listening to this call, so we're not going to ask your income just to like let that happen. >> Don't make it weird in the break room. >> No, but um >> how long did it take? >> Yeah. >> Um it took me 18 months.

>> Oh, wow. Fast. Year and a half. done.

>> Knocked it out. >> Good for you, Carrie. That's awesome.

>> So, what got you started on this journey? >> So, I had credit cards and that's what I

used to pay for anything that I couldn't, you know, pay with my paychecks. So, I was paycheck to paycheck and living beyond my means. And

it was credit card after credit card.

And, you know, that one would get maxed out, I'd get another one. And there was a day where I specifically remember I was in my home gym and I had my third credit card. was maxed out.

>> I thought, "Oh, I'm just going to call them up, you know, call them and I'll get that increased." >> And they said, "I'm sorry, your debt to income ratio, you're you don't qualify for anymore." >> Wow. >> And that was just the moment like something has to be done.

>> Yeah. When even the lenders were like, "Yeah, we're not going to let you borrow any more money. You know, you're deep in it." >> Yeah. >> Wow. And that's when you had this this moment of I got to do something different. And then how'd you get connected to us? Was it through Smart Dollar originally or have you heard about us before then? >> Yeah. My son was using the app and doing the program on his own and I thought, I

think I've heard about that. I think I've seen something about that at work.

So, I'm going to check and see. And I looked more into it and they're like, yeah, it's completely free. We give you this. You get the Every Dollar app, which has been totally a lifesaver to

see. I'm a numbers person, so I want to see where am I where I'm spending too much and where I could maybe save some.

And >> that's awesome. What's your role at U-Haul? What do you do over there? I am in sales. >> Okay. >> So I work from home. Yeah. I'm I'm in home sales. >> Nice. Been there almost 15 years. So

>> what? >> So great. Okay. So when you start So when you started it 18 months ago,

>> was it hard to kind of get on board?

Like was it hard to change the way you used to handle money and now you're doing something totally new or were you at a point of like desperation where you're thinking I I will do anything. I will do anything to get out of this.

Well, it was a little of both because it was a necessity. I mean, if I was going to not lose my house and not lose my my stuff, I had to make the changes, you know. It was a necessity. But it was hard. Of course, it was hard. You know, I was used to living a certain way. And if I wanted to go to dinner, I just put on credit card and I worry about that later, you know. And if I wanted to, you know, go out and get something, it

wasn't a second thought. So, >> yeah, that's for future carri.

It came quicker than I thought. Yes.

>> Yes. Yes. Okay. So, during the time Okay, so the hardest part was probably saying no to yourself of what you're used to. >> Changing the habits. >> Yes. Uh, were there people cheering you on during the process?

>> My parents, for sure.

>> Yes. So great. Is this them right there?

So, okay. So, if you're watching out on YouTube, they're here in the lobby. So, so great. So wonderful.

>> Wow. What was one of the hardest things that you had to make a tweak to or cut out completely from the budget that you sort of used as fuel of like one day I'm going to have this back in my life, but right now it's got to go in the name of freedom. >> I think it was mostly eating out. We used to do that a lot.

That was kind of our thing like, you know, that was our release. You know, you've had a stressful week or something, you're going to go out and I don't want to cook. I want to, you know, take it easy and and then, you know, I would just do that and just be like, not think about it. It's just, you know, what we would do for fun.

And that was kind of our fun.

>> Yeah. Did you see a big change? Cuz we always tell people to cut out to eat because of how much it eats into your income. Did you see that difference grocery shopping and cooking versus eating out?

>> Oh, for sure. So much different because I don't didn't do a budget before. It was like if I had the money, I would do it and if not, I'd put it on credit. And yeah, actually looking at how much money I was spending on eating out was it was sickening.

It was just >> I think everyone feels that way.

>> Most people just never look. They just would rather not want to know.

>> Once you do the math, you can't unsee it. And then you go grocery shopping and cook at home and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I saved $500 this month just by being intentional.

>> Way to go." >> Yes. Were there people um making fun of you at all? Like some of your friends or anything? Or did was everyone happy hour?

Come on. or was everyone cheering you on like this car and a lot of people didn't know that I was doing that because it was very private with my money. I a lot of people didn't know I was in debt to begin with, you know, not even my family knew. >> Yes.

>> So, it wasn't something, you know, you go like >> and I don't think a lot of people tell you how much credit card debt they have, you know. >> Y >> and what was the helock about? At what point did you take that on and what did you use it for? >> Um, that was the worst decision I've probably ever made.

They make it seem like, oh, you're going to save this money.

and putting that together." >> Oh, you rolled your debts into a heliloc. >> Yeah, that was what we did. >> Like a consolidation. >> We did a little bit of remodeling for our house. We did redid the bathroom, but yeah, we paid off the car. We um put

the credit card debt on there. >> You just moved the debt around and you felt better about your life. >> Yeah, because I was saving money, you know. I was saving money by convinced you. Yeah. They they had a great sales pitch and you're in sales and you you

this is it. Okay. You keep saying we is that your >> I have a fiance as well. >> Fiance. Okay. So great. Okay. How was that relationship as you as you were working your way out of debt? Was that uh was he on board? Was he >> cheering you on? No, >> he was on board for me, but yeah, I mean our finances are separate, so he's he's on his own financial journey now.

>> Sure. >> Well, I'm still going to eat out. You do what you want. >> Yeah. I was going to say that's impressive. Yeah. To be Yeah. Yeah. To be in a relationship like that and you were like, "Hey, I'm doing I'm making these changes >> with or without him doing it." Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, maybe he'll see the the peace and the control that you have, you

know, and Yeah. Maybe it'll rub off on him. >> It has. He has his his thousand emergency fund now. He's not using credit cards. So, he's very proud of me.

And good. >> And it has rubbed off a little.

>> Yes. That's great. That's great. I love it. >> We're so proud of you. And I know a lot of your co-workers, family are watching.

Your son, I'm sure, is like, "Way to go, mom. Like that's pretty wild that your son got you inspired to do this. >> He did and he just paid off his debt. He is debtree. He couldn't be here with me today because he's saving up for his wedding. But look, I love it.

>> So yeah, he's debtree now, too. Three generations of debtree. >> Look at you. >> That's literally changing your family tree.

>> So powerful. >> We are so proud of you. Honored you came to visit us and so thankful to U-Haul for the partnership they've had with Smart Dollar and helping their own employees become debtree. Like why would you not want that for your own team?

And so I love to see companies get a hold of this and offer it to their team. All right, you ready for this? >> I'm ready. >> It's Carrie from Phoenix.

33,000 paid off in 18 months. Count it down.

hear a debtree scream.

>> Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

>> Just like that. >> I love it. Imagine yourself now and then fast forward 18 months from now. That's pretty wild to think about. You could be completely debtree just by getting a little bit focused, a little bit intentional, making a few sacrifices.

>> I mean, yeah. And you heard her. She was like, gosh, all these expenses when I actually started looking and seeing where I was spending >> that actually can create the margin to then just completely snowball into the debt to be able to pay it off that much faster. >> Yeah.

Like it it really isn't rocket science. It's just paying attention instead of just being in denial, being ignorant, just doing what you want like a child. Instead, having a little bit of delayed gratification, a little bit of intentionality, and going, "What did I actually spend? What could I be spending?

And how can I use that newfound margin?" And that's what's so great about the allnew Every Dollar is it helps do that for you now with all the personalized recommendations. And you heard her, you know, we didn't pay her to talk about Every Dollar, but she was like, "That was the game changer." >> Yeah. Well, I can look at it. And that was another thing I thought of.

We get so many calls from people in their 20s and 30s and like, "Hey, I want to I want my parents to do this stuff, but they won't listen to me." And we always say, "Well, if you just do it, they're watching and they're they're hearing you and your conversations around money." And you could see that's exactly what happened, right? He was living his life financially, being wise and getting control. And when his mom hit this wall financially in her own life, she thought, "Oh my gosh, my son is doing something. I wonder what that is." So, you never know what that example uh that you're taking on because you could have Yeah.

a family member like Carrie and then she gets it and then she's debtree 18 months later.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 24:16.

that the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when they when calamity strikes. Serena

Williams says, "I really think a champion is defined not by their wins, but how they recover when they fall." >> Beautiful. Y >> also easy to say when you win a lot.

>> You know what I mean? >> It's not all about winning, guys.

>> But I just win everything I do. Y >> Serena Williams. Oh, so great. All right, let's go to Nate and in Lancing,

Michigan. Hi, Nate. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Yeah, thanks a lot for taking the call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Well, my wife and I are looking for a little of advice here. Uh she is on the

leadership team for a hospitality based company out of Florida that is selling to a larger company uh in New York.

>> Okay. Uh, and the owners the owners of her company met with her and said that they would like to recognize her years of service and loyalty by giving her a $600,000 bonus from the proceed of the sale. >> Whoa. Okay. Well, that's >> Yeah. So, >> wonderful.

>> She figured she might get something from this, but this large of an amount was a pleasant shock to both of us. So, the only caveat here is that she is likely

um after the new company gets on its feet from the merger, the new company may let her go within a year.

>> Sure. >> But, uh we're just looking for advice on what we should do with this 600,000.

>> Oh my gosh, how great.

>> What does she make? >> Yeah.

>> Her annual income is 190,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Fantastic. >> How old are you guys?

>> She's 39. I'm 40.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. And how much do you make a year?

>> 140,000. >> 140. Okay. >> Fantastic. Power. This is a power couple by definition. >> I know. Y'all are doing Y'all are doing so great. Okay. Um financially, where

are you guys at? Do you guys have any consumer debt?

>> No. Uh we only have uh what's left on

our mortgage and we have like a stupid low interest rate. So that's the only thing. We have 177,000 on the mortgage and we're debtree otherwise.

>> Amazing.

Okay. Well, um usually when we talk

about, you know, this type of money that

you fall into, uh well, I shouldn't say she worked very hard, you know, and that's incredible that they're recognizing her with that. But, um there's really the three big buckets to

kind of dip into and that's giving, being generous, saving, and enjoying

some of it. And then I would add I would throw the mortgage piece in there um as well. So yeah, if I woke up in your

shoes, I would pay off the mortgage. I would be completely debtree and you guys

would have about 400,000 left. I mean

four Yeah. 420 430. And out of that, I

would I would give some. I would find something that you guys um you don't have to be urgent about it, but find something that as as a couple, as a family, that you guys are really passionate about um that you love. And

I'd set some money aside for some giving. And then beyond that, I mean,

yeah, you could, you know, put this in some, you know, an index fund or mutual funds from the investing side. And then I would enjoy some of it. Maybe there's like a big trip you guys have been wanting to do. Um, if you guys need to replace any cars or anything like that.

I mean, I want you to to spend and and enjoy part of this. >> You've earned it to upgrade your life a little bit. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I I appreciate that. Um, you know, we're we're doing pretty all well otherwise. We we do have 90,000 in a

savings account and I'm kind of on the fence on whether that's too much. Um, you know, we do plan to retire a little bit early though. So, that's that's another thing here. Um, >> I think this becomes your your brokerage non-retirement brokerage account bridge fund that'll get you to, you know, 59 and a half when you can access those retirement accounts without penalty. So, I love the idea of you're going to need to set aside some of it for taxes, right?

>> Exactly. your tax bill is going to increase severely this year. Uh which is fine, but set it figure out how much that's going to be and set that aside in a separate savings account to be ready for that. I would pay off the mortgage personally regardless of the interest rate just cuz it's going to free you guys up to have total freedom, total margin, more cash flow coming in that you can use for the rest of your life.

And maybe, you know, you upgrade the house down the road, maybe you upgrade the cars. And like Rachel said, we're going to give some, spend some, and then whatever's left over, I would just park in that brokerage account and let that be the start of your bridge fund >> for retirement is what you're saying to retire early. >> So if you guys want to retire at 50 or 55, you've got a nice cushion to get you there.

>> Even if even if that interest rate is just below three, that's what it is. we

talked about this last night and she's like, "Well, I'm I'm interested to hear what they have to say on the show, but what if uh we didn't pay the mortgage off and invested it and just hope to beat that 3%." Does that make sense?

>> Of course. Yeah. It's the number one argument we get with telling people to pay off their house. >> And you're in the unique position where you could literally write a check and pay off the mortgage today, whereas most people are just hypotheticals.

They don't actually have the money. But when you look at just how much you're paying in interest, it's just it's still even at 3% on a loan that size, you're just like, why am I giving the bank a,000 bucks this month? This is silly. And so to me, you're going to be multi multi multi-millionaires, whether it's 7.5 million or 7.2 million, I'd be happy to have that argument down the road.

>> Yeah.

and that you know you try to find the spread here or there. You're not going to find genuine just peace of mind

knowing that you don't owe anyone anything. No bank is over your head at all. Like you are completely free. So

what I would encourage you to do is I would I would pay it off and then if you

hate it, if you hate being debtree and

you really want a mortgage, you could, you know, borrow on the house and get a mortgage again. It'll be like 6% though.

So, that's really gonna put a damper in your >> I don't care. But it's the it's the it's the idea that you would never go back into debt once it was paid off.

>> Well, and you told us she there's a possibility she gets laid off in the future. And so, not having a mortgage just makes that a yawn. Okay, guess she gets to look at the next thing she's doing instead of man, we really got to lower our lifestyle because this mortgage payment was three grand. And obviously, you guys are doing so well that I don't think that would be an issue, but it's just going to only increase your piece.

and you're talking to two people who don't have a mortgage payment and this is something that we would do. I would do it all over again regardless of if it's 1% or 7%.

>> Yeah, that that was my sentiment too in in our discussions. Obviously, it's a it's a team decision here, but uh she's very supportive of me coming on the show and getting some outside advice. So, thank you very much. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely, Nate. I know. And well done.

>> She's earned it. I think a shopping This is my dream is just give her a shopping spree. >> You know, whatever her favorite stores are, go, you know what?

>> 10 grand in a day. You have to spend it.

Go enjoy. >> Go. >> What woman is like, no, I don't want to do that. That sounds terrible. >> It sounds awful. >> Make it a weekend. Spa day, one day, a shopping day, another day, and one day just for recovery because that was a lot. It was stressful. >> There was a lot of effort that went into that. Yeah, that is one uh argu I mean,

I don't want to say argument. He was not being argumentative about it. But one take that um from a math standpoint we

hear a lot if you did have a lower interest rate the two 3% and you could be making you know easily 15% in the market even more so for >> even high yield savings I can make four in the high yield savings and the mortgage is three what's what's the point >> and yep and so that is something that we hear we hear often from the math nerds and again from a mathematical standpoint we understand it we're not stupid but there is something about personal finance where we always say it is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge.

What you do, the person you are handling the money is the bulk of your money problems and your money solutions.

are completely free. Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And when you do not owe anyone anything,

there is a level of rest and peace and

sleep at night that you just don't always get knowing I have to pay this.

There's a level of risk. And again, their numbers are big. So like, would they take pay it? Probably yes.

But man, there there's just something to be said that you just can't take it away. You can't take it away. So, >> well, there's a there's something to be said for wanting to solve for the spread that you could make versus just solving for peace. And they're just two very different goals.

And so it's not an apples to apples argument of on paper I could make this. >> Listen, you're playing >> checkers over here.

It's just a different game. And that's what you get to own that. Yep. And our goal with this show is solving for peace. Getting control of your money. So money is not an issue in your life that you get to go through it through life.

And money is a tool to be used, but it's not a point of stress for you. All right, George. Great show. Thanks as always being a great co-host. Everyone in the booth, thank you guys. And for you, America, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 155. Stop Letting Yesterday's Mistakes Control Today's Decisions | March 3, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:42:46 |

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw number one best-selling author and Ramsay personality is my co-host today.

Open phones here at8255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Chris is going to start us off in Chicago. Hey Chris, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. >> Good. What's up?

So about 12 years ago um I used gambling

as a coping mechanism and what was a

social thing became an addiction.

After about 10 years I realized that or after 2 years I realized the trouble I was in. Um and I tried to fix it on my

own. Uh they didn't go particularly

well. My wife discovered my gambling about eight years ago. So, two years after that and

I I did do the work. It was a traumatic

and absolutely brutal situation for her to be in because all the, as you know,

my confession took the load off of me, but it just put it squarely on her shoulders. Now, >> I did the work. I I was already in the

process of wanting to do undo what I had

done. I just wasn't at the place where I trusted the Lord to help me save my family. Um,

and so I didn't confess it to her. When

it finally came out, I did the work. I spent a year and a half. I paid off all the debt. I put a significant sum in a

savings account that she only had control over.

um therapy every week, GA um and it got

to a point where even my therapist said, you know, I think you're in a good place with the gambling. I don't think you need my therapy for that, but I'm

willing to help you with my marriage.

And so what has happened is

I've regained the trust in the financial aspect of things.

And now, you know, I have kind of control of my money. We have two separate accounts.

But what has happened is the damage that

was done to the relationship has just put up such a significant wall that the

things I now want to do with giving and

um just being a steward with the grace that

God has given me in my finances.

are everything on that aspect is completely separate. If I try to bring her into some of that of what I am doing or how I'm in investing or saving or giving her

response will be do what you want with your money. >> Mhm. >> And so for the sake of peace in our household that that is not something I'm going to demand of her. So, it's been about seven years. >> You've been dry seven years being clean.

>> You've been sober seven years.

>> Wow. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Are y'all seeing a marriage counselor?

>> She We tried it. Um, we've tried it a

couple times and she absolutely doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

So I understand that until the Lord

softens her heart towards me that that's

not something I can I can't change her.

So what I'm trying to figure out is

without imposing on her and

the resistance to any type of

reconciliation in our marriage right now.

How can I I'm not sure how to proceed with some of the things that you know the only debt we have is our house. >> Mhm. Well, it's hard to proceed with a life when you don't have a a marriage even where you have a roommate.

>> Oh, absolutely. >> And that's that it's hard to it's hard to visualize a future uh a unified

future when there's not a unified current. And so, you know, and and

>> so I mean, you're you're the language that you're using around this is all correct. >> If if what you're really acting out follows the conversation that we've been having with you for the last four minutes, uh it's all very clear. Um,

>> are there kids?

>> Two. >> How old are they? >> Two young boys. Uh, I'll say pre-teen.

Could not nail me down quite as >> And you can answer as honestly as you can. Is she only staying with you because of them?

>> No. The reason I think she's staying with me is then right now I am the bad

guy. But if she chose to divorce me,

there would be some some accountability from her family and things like that that she would have to deal with.

>> So my point is she's not staying with you out of love for you.

>> She's staying with you for some ulterior

>> um reason. Okay, that's the point.

>> Yeah, you you obviously you're correct.

You can't make someone change what and obviously you're correct. She has a reason to be pissed, but at some point it becomes more about her being pissed than it does the actual thing that happened. Um, right. So, like we went bankrupt. I was 28 years old. We had little babies and we lost everything because 100% of the real estate decisions were being made by me. I wasn't hiding anything. It

wasn't an addiction. But my wife uh lost

confidence in my judgment with good reason. Hello. I was stupid. Okay. So,

um, she lost J, you know, and so, how do you regain that trust? Well, steadiness,

consistency, and working at, okay, you

know, anytime I walk near anything that makes her feel like the phrase she used, it feels like you're scheming and scamming again. And I wasn't scheming or scamming, but um, it makes her feel like I'm my risk meter is gone again. And she has a large risk meter. So we have to really work together to make decisions in order for her in order for our decisions to stay in her comfort zone.

Especially in the early days today completely different. It's 30 years ago.

Um but 7 years there should be some

progress on coming back to the table

unless you've given a reason for there not to be. And what you're saying is it hasn't been.

>> You've steadily and consistently moved away from all the problems. And so to invite her into all decisions and then and she refuses and and I want you to look at this with me so you have a comfort so you you you know you don't ever think I'm going back to where I was before. I understand the deception. I understand the actual loss of the money.

Um and you know but at some point we've got to grow back together on this otherwise we've got real issues here.

And so I I don't know. That's something for a therapist to guide you in how much pressure you put on her to do that. But the bottom line is uh Chris, this is not good for her, >> right? >> She's got a bucket of acid in her guts.

>> And it's just boiling all the time.

And that's what lack of forgiveness does. Now, she should not trust you except to the extent you are trustworthy.

>> Worthy. >> Yeah. But if you're sharing everything and she's got insight into all of it and we make Sher and I make the decisions together ever since that event. Dave doesn't make any decisions to come home and say, "Look what I did." We make the decisions together.

And if you're doing all of that and she's unwilling to join that, then that's the healing on her part that hasn't taken place. And I don't know how to force someone to do that or force a discussion about it. I would turn that over to your therapist, sir. I'm so sorry you guys have been through this.

gambling thing, folks, is out of control out there.

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Brandon is in Mississippi. Hi, Brandon.

How are you?

>> Doing well. >> Good. What's up?

>> Uh, I had a question um about helping a

parents out. So, um,

a W or 1099 came in late uh due to uh

the job that she was working and she has

the money but not able to pay all of it

right now. And if they were going to get

a loan, it would be for the 25 taxes instead of

the 24 taxes which um she was trying to

take care of right now. And the question was um I know my parents they won't try

to pay me back or they will try to pay me back but I won't you know request them to pay me back but I was thinking about getting a loan to try to assist them for the 24 taxes. How much is due

for the 24 taxes?

>> Uh 27 >> 27 what,000?

>> 27,000 night. Okay.

>> Yes. And uh >> how much for 25?

>> Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about the 25, but she was trying to make sure and take care of the 27 now because that is the most important thing which is for 24.

>> What's what else about their financial history? Do how much are they earning every every month or every year? Do you know? >> Um, yeah. So, I would say mother

probably brings around 130.

>> Uh-huh.

>> Uh, father probably right at 90.

>> So, there's no reason they shouldn't be paying their taxes.

>> Why is she not she not not setting aside money for 1099 income?

So yes, she was paying them quarterly.

Um, >> but not enough. >> What happened? >> Yes. Not enough. So what happened? A late a late 1099 came in.

>> Mhm. >> And uh so they had >> No, that's not what happened. >> That would have to be some big >> The 1099 came in and she knew the money

had already come in. So the money, the fact that she had this income is not a surprise. That's bull crap.

You follow me? You don't get a $1099 for

$100,000 you didn't know was coming >> because you have the $100,000.

>> Okay. >> So, this is what's scaring me is that this is going to go on and on and on and on and on. Have they don't know if they've gone to the root of this and fixed it or not because 1099s just don't fly in the window without the money having already come a year before.

>> Is this a brand new business or has she been doing this for a while? Um, ever

since she retired. >> Okay. >> Which was when?

>> Uh, probably about three, four.

>> Okay. So, she's never paid her taxes right what we're saying. >> Yeah. I think this is compiling.

>> Yeah, she has. So, 23 is fine. 23 from

there is all fine. It was just the 24.

>> That's where it started to begin. >> Well, but 25 you don't know what it is.

Tell >> No, I don't. >> Tell me about your uh financial situation.

Um, I'm in debt myself. Um,

>> that's all I needed to know. >> Okay. So, and you said you were going to borrow the money. So, the answer to your question is no.

You don't borrow the money. But, let's help them anyway. Let's figure out how we can help them and you can go back to them with some advice. But you borrowing money for these people that make $210,000 and are out of control is a really bad idea.

So, no, I would not do that. Not in a million years. Now, should they borrow the money? You mentioned that she had the money, but she can't get to it.

So, um, other scenarios and situations

came up that that money that was set aside for those taxes had to be used for something else.

>> Well, that's pretty vague. What?

>> Well, I would say

things that came up due to housing, uh,

things that they need to fix around the house. Um, that's pretty much all the information I kind of got. So, can you all >> But she doesn't have the money like in some account she just doesn't want to touch. >> She spent the money to fix her kitchen or whatever, right?

>> Right. No, it's not that. >> Okay. So, >> there's no there's no They have no money.

>> Is that what you're telling me? >> Yes. >> Do they have anything they could sell?

Do they have vehicles with payments or no payments. Is there anything they could sell to to get this money?

>> Um, I would say both vehicles have a

payment. Um,

>> nothing in my mind I just come off the top of the head that could say they could sell. >> Okay. If I were to sit down with them and I was their coach, Brandon, here's what I would tell them. >> Okay. >> I would say, "You make $210,000 and you're completely out of control.

We've got to get your taxes set up. And you that those tax accounts are once you

set those money aside out of your 1099 income for your quarterly estimates, which you mentioned, it sounds like somebody knows what to do. Uh then that money is sacred. You do not touch it.

And I don't care what comes up. It's already spent. You don't have it anymore. You just have it in your name.

You have to forget you own that money.

And so nothing can come up. Your little brother needs a car, toughies. Nothing can come up. Some a some friend calls and wants a medical bill paid. Nothing.

You don't own this money anymore. It's already tax money. You have to quit even leaving it available emotionally. This is me talking to your parents. Okay?

>> So that this never ever ever ever comes back again. And then we need to work you out of debt with a budget, put you on

every dollar, and you guys are going to start living on way less than you make cuz you got a couple of stupid car payments and you owe the KGB, I mean the IRS, $27,000 freaking dollars. And so

we're going to put you on a payment plan with the IRS and they are the first debt you're going to pay off. And you're going to pay them off in less than 12 months. You make $210,000, you ought to be able to pay 30,000 off very, very quickly.

and just pay the IRS. That's what I would do. Would I go borrow money to pay the IRS? No, I would not. Not in this situation because I want to make sure that at the core of this, at the root that caused this problem that it goes away. And you borrowing money it to go get them out of this when they make this kind of money and and are this disorganized and chaotic is really suicidal for you, sir. Please do not do this. >> Yeah. How long have you been listening to our show?

Oh, wow. I actually uh learned from them

uh that told me about you guys.

>> Okay. So, that means you both have some

sense beyond this, right? Um and I want you to get serious about this. If you've been listening to the show, you know the things that we're teaching around here.

Um so, I want to make sure that today if we give you every dollar, will you go on there and will you start getting into the classes and every dollar and let it teach you what to do next?

>> Uh yeah. I already have Every Dollar.

We'll give it to you for your mom and dad. Let's see if we can get them moving along. But no, you don't. You knew before you called in here.

I wasn't going to tell you. We weren't going to tell you to borrow money. >> This is like, >> and we certainly weren't going to borrow money for this. >> This is like that scripture where the man looks in the mirror and he walks away and immediately forgets what he looks like.

It's not It doesn't happen by osmosis.

It doesn't happen automatically. You have to then go away and do the things that we teach. Otherwise, your life is not going to change. >> Yeah. Including when I went broke, Larry Briquette used to say that personal financial problems are not the problem.

They're the symptom, >> right, >> of something else going on.

>> So, in this case, you don't have a tax problem. You have an accounting problem because you didn't set set the money aside to pay your taxes. And then when you did, you went and did something stupid with it instead of paying your taxes. And so, now you got yourself between you and the government, which is a really horrible place to be for anybody. None of us want to be there.

>> Certainly not. These are not people with a sense of humor. These are not people that are powerless. They have lots of power uh to screw you over and they will. So, you need to get on a payment plan with them and get them paid off and never ever ever ever ever

touch your tax money for anything ever

again. >> Yeah. Period.

>> It's gone. It's already gone. You just moved it into an account. You hadn't given it to them yet, but it's already gone. It's just like withholding. It's gone. >> Yeah. I used to go in there and every month I'd put move the taxes over. I did not play games with that. >> No, you got you got to do it every time you write a check. >> Yeah.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Martina's in Phoenix. Hi, Martina.

What's up?

>> Uh, hi. Um, I uh two and a half years

ago I bought a a car and um it's a good

car. It's a 2018 Corolla. Um, but I have

a 16.5% interest on it and over half of

my payments go only to interest. Um, I'm

actually the co-signer on the car on the car and my mother is the main signer on

the car and I have had job instability,

housing instability over the years and I'm just not putting my life together.

Um, but currently I haven't even been able to make my February car payment.

So, um, I also rely on this car as a source of income. Um, so I don't What are What is your advice on the car? I would look for a different I would start looking for a different source of income that's not tied to this car. My guess is you're doing some of one of the delivery apps. >> Uh yeah, I'm actually a lift driver. Um

I had a deadend job uh that I quit that,

but I got a new job that is a really

good job, but um it just it doesn't start for a couple more weeks. So things are going to >> When what is how much are you going to be making at the new good job?

>> Um about 3 to 4,000 a year. It's >> You mean a month >> or a month? I mean, sorry. Uh, a month.

I um I I am a uh swim instructor and I'm

contracting with a pool that pays very well for their lessons. >> Okay. And then uh what's what do you owe? What's the total amount owed on this car? Uh >> I owe 16,200 and I originally paid

18,500.

>> Have you looked to see what it's worth?

>> If you looked on Kelly Blue Book, have you looked to see what it's worth private sale? >> Uh yes. It's 47500.

>> Oh boy. What happened to it?

>> She's been driving over.

>> Yeah, that's true. On and off. Destroyed the car. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, then your only choice here. You're I mean, you're going to have to pay it off cuz it's such a low value. Um and you're going to have to work quickly to do it. Is it your only debt?

>> Oh, definitely not. I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up

dropping out of school uh due to mental health issues and I have about $25,000

20 to$25,000 in personal loans and credit cards and then I have an un I don't even know how many thousands of dollars in medical debt. Uh it I don't even like know.

>> So you're going to be doing you'll be doing swim lessons at this place. How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool to make 4,000 a month or is there a base pay?

>> Uh uh because I make uh I'm going to be

making about $30 to $40 an hour.

>> Are they are they going to work you 40 hours?

>> Uh that's the plan. But yeah, that's the

problem is that it does depend on how many clients they get. They do get a lot of clients.

Yeah, I' I'd be looking really deeply into that. Uh, first off, and my homework for you leaving this call is I would have something else lined up that gives me the ability to work because you don't know how many clients they're going to send your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going to fill up and you've got to get started on this debt ASAP because here's the thing, if you default on another payment, it's really going to mess with your mom. I'm sure it already has, right? >> Yeah.

So, she's already strapped a lot.

>> What What we've got to start with, let's go back to basics. All right.

>> Okay. >> Before you do anything else with money, you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing, transportation, and

utilities. Okay. Do you pay do you pay rent? I do and I live in the smallest,

cheapest apartment I could find here in Phoenix and I >> Perfect. So you pay the rent.

>> So you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store. Wait, stop. You pay rent.

You go to the grocery store. You get the car current before you do anything. All the other debts can wait till you pay rent. Get

the car current. Get get food on the

table. Okay.

Before you do anything, you got to bail a basic foundation in your life. That's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Okay? Now, once you're current on the car, then you can decide,

let's reach out to the student loan people, let them know you need a hardship deferral and send them some of the paperwork on some of the mental illness issues you've had and just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on for a little while while they wait around. You do nothing. You quit paying them for right now. And then you get this book of business at the the swim lessons full as fast as you can. And Jade's right. In the meantime, and even after, I want you to work all

the time cuz what you need to fix your

whole life right now is $16,000.

>> Yeah. >> If you had $16,000 and this car payment was gone, we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

>> Yeah. It feels like that that um car

loan is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my life. >> Agreed. Agreed. So, we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for eight months

>> and smack this thing in the head.

>> Okay. >> But that's means like all you do is work, girl. You just work all in it. And it's not Uber. Freaking Uber is making the car worse. >> Mhm. >> Okay. you're putting so many miles on, you've destroyed the value of the car.

>> So, >> yeah, >> but if they if you could if you can work 80 hours a week with swim lessons, just put your fins on and go, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, if you can't get if you can't get a bunch of hours down there, then let's find something else that you can do that that's the thing where you make the most possible money that's moral and legal.

>> Okay? Uh, >> and I want you to go cray cray for a while because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it. And the dynamite is dollar bills.

>> Okay, I like that.

>> And and you just say food,

shelter, lights, and water, and pay off

the stinking car. And that's all I am

breathing to do right now. I breathe in and out every morning. I'm tired cuz I work all the time. But by God, I'm making progress for the first time in five years.

>> Yes, >> you can do this. You can do it.

>> What was the nature of your mental illness stuff? >> Uh I have a uh level one high

functioning autism >> and that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full-time job. Yeah.

>> Um and then I also h have because of that stems like some anxiety and depression. >> Yeah. Um, I have over the last few months gotten on the right meds, gotten into the stable housing, and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable. I'm trying to do baby step one right now.

And >> here's the thing. Here's what I've worked with in 35 years of doing this, I've worked with a whole bunch of people that both had high level functioning autism. And I've worked with a whole bunch of people that had depression. And the thing I know is the depression is made worse when you feel trapped and

when you're not in action mode. When you get in action mode and get in warrior mode and get in attack mode, it helps

because it releases the dopamine and other things and it helps to melt away the depression. And the autism can the high functioning autism can actually work on in your favor in those situations because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't

you?

>> Yeah, I am really good at teaching people to swim. And actually, the gym I'm working at is uh called Ability 360.

And it's actually an adaptive gym and most of their employees have some kind of disability. >> Okay. And anything you can do to help people work out if you could deal a personal trainer thing going.

>> I was going to say you need to go. >> What we're going to do is use all of this situation to your advantage >> to that that's the thing that has been a blocker for you. But because as you start melting away these debts first and foremost, you get this car off your back, off your mother's back, your brain is going to clear up. the fog that you've been walking in, the stress related anxiety of feeling trapped in

16% and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16% too. That was dumb.

So, you're not dumb, but that was dumb.

So, you know, what you do is you get in attack mode, warrior girl. You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it.

Complete focus. I don't want you to pay anybody else. Just let them all go bad.

I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit.

We know that cuz you had a 16.8% car payment. So, we know your credit's trash already.

So, I'm not worried about that at all.

I'm worried about you. I want you to be free. So, you hang on and we'll get you signed up for every dollar and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well.

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Michelle is with us in Reno, Nevada.

Hey, Michelle. How are you?

>> I'm well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. So, okay. My husband and I are in um baby step two and I feel like we've

kind of tripped ourselves up because we

don't know. He gets paid weekly and we're trying to decide if we should um do snowball like weekly or wait till the end of the month to pay off like a lump

sum.

So, when you go through and you do the paycheck planner on every dollar, do you know for sure at the end of the week that you can pay the money off and it won't come back to bite you in the butt later?

>> Um, I we have done it. We have about $400. So, I uh we have about $400

like extra at the end of the week >> to have in order to have all of our bills paid at the end of the month.

>> Yeah. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. That's the way Sam and I used to do it. but we got paid weekly and so it just made it easier and I made a schedule of making sure everything was covered, everything was good to go and then yeah, that that freed up freed us up to be able to do it that way.

>> So I I don't have a problem with that. I think that's great.

>> Okay. Because it just feels like we're not getting anywhere right now because and I think we're we're motivated by that like oh look, we paid this or we paid this. Yes. >> And it feels like we're not getting anywhere. And my I have one more.

>> We are getting anywhere. It's just a whole bunch of it at the end of the month, right?

>> Yes. Yes. First two weeks, you just buy groceries.

>> Groceries. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And rent and whatever. Yeah.

>> You're just trying to build in some momentum so that you feel like something's happening every week to keep you going. Am I right?

>> Correct. >> If there's any of the stuff you're paying in that first segment, look at your paycheck. Are you using paycheck planner on every dollar?

>> We are. >> Okay. If you look at that paycheck planner and say, I could roll this item from the first segment to the second segment and use some of that first segment money to get out of debt and that would keep me that momentum. And so if there's a bill that you're paying in the first set that can wait till the second set without being late or getting late fees or dinging your credit or something like that, anything you could push off into that other segment, use that money in the first segment for debt.

Right. >> Mhm. Yeah.

No, just in the first section. >> That's what we have.

>> Wait a minute. I'm sorry. Are you doing this weekly or bi-weekly?

>> We were trying to do it weekly.

>> So, you get paid weekly. >> I think he gets paid. We get paid weekly. Yes. >> Good. Okay. So, each week

figure out anything that doesn't have to

be in that week that could be in the next week to allow you to pay more debt in that week. That will give you that emotional being that each time we're paying some necessities and we're paying some debt. We're paying some necessities, we're paying some debt, we're paying. That'll give you that that sense of momentum.

But the math is basically the same. If you said, okay, the first two weeks we're paying only necessities, no debt, and the last two weeks we're paying all debt.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. And you are working at smallest to largest, right?

>> We are. >> And what is your smallest debt currently?

>> Smallest debt currently is 735.

>> Oh, good. That should What's your household income?

>> Uh, we bring home 7,600 a month.

>> And how much are you putting on debt a month?

>> The goal is to put um 1,400 a month.

>> Okay. So, that one's gone in one month, right? And another one. Yes.

>> Now, you told me I just want to check that because you told me you had $400 margin at the end of every month. I'm sorry, at the end of every week. So, where's the other 200?

>> I want to say it's about 430.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, that should be even more going towards the debt. >> Yeah. >> So, just double check that. I like the idea of doing it weekly. >> The other thing is you just started, didn't you?

>> We did just start. Yeah. >> That's okay. Nothing wrong with that.

But the way you're describing all of this is what gave me a hint to that fact fact. What will happen and Jade can testify to this too is the longer you do this uh the more intense you're going to get cuz you're going to start to see this stuff melt away >> and you're going to crunch some other stuff out of there. You're probably going to end up with more margin than just 14 or 1500.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yes.

>> Yeah. As you get further into this and you get used to the rhythm of it and you start to see it work, you're going to say, "I'm cutting that and I'm cutting that and I'm cutting that and you're going to work extra and I'm cutting that." >> Yeah. And if you don't have side hustles, you need to lock those in today because all of that all of that is going to go towards this and all of that is going to give you that momentum that you want to feel. >> Bobb's in Nashville.

Hey Bobby, what's up?

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, absolutely. So, I am, you know,

started to make some decent money. Um, my wife and I are about $80,000 in debt

and feels like we're not not quite

monthtomonth, but we're we're pretty drained. >> What's decent money to month? I >> I make about 150,000. My wife makes about 25,000. >> Okay. So, we have $175,000 income. How much debt have you got? >> That's right. >> 80,000. Not counting the house.

>> Not counting the house. >> Break the 80 down for me. How much of that's cars?

>> I got 22,000 in the car.

>> Okay. Only one car debt. Okay. What's the other uh what's the other 58,000?

>> So 20,000 in personal loan and the rest in consumer debt, credit cards.

>> Okay. So you got 40 in credit cards

>> about. That's right. >> Yeah. Okay. >> What caused that 40,000 in credit card debt?

>> Say that again. I'm sorry. >> What caused the 40,000 in credit card debt?

>> Um, we moved actually to the Nashville area about 5 years ago. So, there was some of that and moving costs and there

was some medical bills, stuff like that.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> And some overspending and stuff like that.

>> 100% agree. Yes. Correct.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. So, it sounds like you recently got a raise.

>> Yes, recently did get a raise. uh started a new job just >> that gives you a wake up call. Okay, we got to clean this crap up now, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay, good. That's a good place to be.

That's a good place to be emotionally.

All right. So, what we teach is a process called the baby steps. You may have heard of it where we list your debts or we say first get $1,000 set aside. Second one is list your debts smallest to largest. Live on beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched lifestyle, no going out to eat, no vacations, no whining, work all the time, and pay off the stinking debt as fast as you can. Oh, by the way, y'all need to have a plastic surgery party tonight and cut up those credit cards.

Light a candle, have a ceremony, and chop those things up. They are destroying your freaking life. They're half of your debt. >> Yeah. >> And the next time we get ready to buy something, we're going to pay for it or we're not buying it. too. We >> we also have, you know, I have three kids. They're all in their activities.

So, there's, you know, travel baseball and competitive dance and we're we're paying a healthy portion. >> Well, maybe there is or maybe there isn't. You make $175,000 a year. Can you afford to continue to do that? You ask you and your wife ask yourselves and get this debt paid off >> because you know, I'm telling you, I'm not putting the family in debt for travel baseball. >> Yeah. Something's going to you're going to feel the sacrifice of this somewhere.

It's either >> I don't know if you can do it or not. You guys got to look at it. But but you the two of you need to don't don't start this conversation with a reason you can't do this >> cuz you can do it. It's just a matter of how who's crying, >> right?

Yeah. We we definitely need to get better about our budget. We we haven't really tightened that up as well. So, >> you don't even have one.

You don't have to get better about it. You're going to have to do one and then you're going to have to be sacrificial about it. And the more sac So here's the deal. You make 175.

not counting taxes, you'd be debtree in a year, >> right? >> But that's going to require a way different lifestyle than you guys have been living cuz y'all been buying everything in sight like you're in Congress. And nobody in your house has heard the word no in a long time. Kids, you, your wife, anybody. So y'all are going to start looking at each other and go no. cuz it's stealing your future.

You make too much money now for this to continue to be the way to do things. Too many people get a raise and the way they celebrate it is a new car payment

and you got to stop that. This has to be broken. This is a cycle that breaks. So you sit down with your wife tonight and go, "Okay, time for us to be grown-ups and we're going to have to reintroduce the ancient word to our household." The word is new.

>> Period. >> It's a complete sentence. >> Yeah, it is. Everybody practice it with me. You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth. Make a kissing motion with your lips. It sounds like this. No. It's illegal to say that to

any group or person in America today.

No. But it's a healthy word. It sets you

free.

No.

If collectors are blowing up your phone every day and you're living in constant fear of the next call, you're not living. You're surviving. You don't need

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Waw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Nicole is in Detroit. Hi Nicole. How are you? >> Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I better than we deserve.

How can we help? >> Yeah. Um so I was calling um so

basically my husband has refused to

put like give me financial visibility into his life. Um he has put his foot

down like you know literally like no you

cannot see anything that I have going on financially. I can tell you about it.

>> Um but you you can't know anything

that's going on. Um, and the reason why

it happened is we were in a position to buy a home and the the housing counselor

and the lender that we were working with asked about our finances and I found myself saying, "Well, I don't I don't know. Um, let me hold let me hold on.

Let me ask my husband." And then I after our call was done, I told my husband, I said, you know, I shouldn't have to say hold on to anyone. Let me ask my husband, >> right? I should know what's going on, you know, in that part of your life.

It's like we're roommates. It's like you you over here have me.

>> He He said, "I'm a grown man. I do not

have to show you anything financially in my life." I said, "But you're a deacon.

You're a deacon and you're my husband."

I said, "We're supposed to be one. That you saying that makes us not be one." And what he said >> me showing you my money have nothing to do with us being one. My husband is a deacon. >> Yeah. But this is >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So where are we now?

>> So I moved out. Um we we were in a

rental. Um when I when we came together eight years ago, it was it was his house. So I moved in with him. We've been there for eight years. We were trying to work on getting our own house.

And because all this I mean it it's so bad days. It It's so bad.

>> But what else is going on? Cuz this was explosive. So what else is going on? I I

have a feeling that it wasn't This has not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

>> Yep. Nope. So he has a 21-year-old son.

Um and his son is very disrespectful. Um

he basically it's basically like he runs

the house. And if I try to say anything to him about his son, what his son does, if I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around, he never believes me. >> Uhhuh.

>> So it's just it it's just bubbling over.

>> Yeah. >> How can we help you today, hun?

>> So I just want to know.

So we've separated. He has filed divorce

papers, but I haven't signed them yet.

I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talk to a bull. Got you. That's even a word. That's not a word. >> Have you suggested some sort of counsel?

Have you suggested, "Hey, this is really bad. We need to get in counseling." What did he say? >> Yes, I said that and he said, "No,

because you're that person is not going to tell me that I have to allow you to see my money." >> See, here's the thing, and I'm just going to go ahead and say this. This is based off of just what you've told me, so take it with a grain of salt. this it

based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see. And maybe it does have to do with his uh stature or how people view

him. He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money.

Maybe that's a blessing. He's the one that's filed for divorce. Maybe this is you dodging a bullet. I don't know. I don't know. But this sounds like somebody who doesn't it sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told nor learn anything about a better way to exist in a relationship. That's what you've told me. >> Yeah. The um and the the weird thing is is that uh all of his finances are now going to get exposed >> in the divorce, right?

>> It's ironic. >> The judge is not going to go along with his plan. >> It's very ironic. 100% of his finances

have to be exposed or he's going to have to lie to the court which will get him put in jail. So, uh you don't lie to the court, not even divorce court. So,

you know, he has to come he has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has

to all come before the judge and he's going to find out that half of it yours.

That's going to be very weird for him.

>> Yeah. Well, we only been married two years. >> Yeah. That doesn't matter. >> Oh, I thought it was eight. So, you've been in the house for six years together, eight years, married, too.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh, what are you concerned about? Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on >> that you don't know about? >> So, actually, so before we separated,

um, I had to find out the hard way that he had a garnishment on my on my account. And so, I had to ask him

several times to get it taken care of.

um he got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it.

>> And you know, so I was just like, for

you to be so angry with me and telling me, "No, you won't allow me to see you financially, but you got a garnishment on my on my account." How is that fair?

>> There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about. There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about. And it's now granted I

don't know what parts you've contributed to whatever mess is here. I'm sure there's is two, you know, two sides to everything. But um >> but my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some shame or you know it might might be just the way he views >> uh those gender roles that you guys never aligned on that money is the man's thing and it's not who knows. But there it's never going to come out cuz he won't go to counseling with you.

>> Yeah. It's going to come out in the divorce. you're going to find out everything about his money in the divorce. Um, which is the irony of him filing for divorce because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money.

So, it's kind of ironic and he just he's just he's just dumb enough he doesn't know that. So, this is going to be a real surprise to him.

>> Uh, cuz the judge doesn't really care about judge doesn't really care about his theories. >> He's just going to tell him what to do and if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court and it's really nasty.

You don't want you don't want to screw around with the judge. >> So, um, This is this is where he's going. The question you asked, I have a sad, horrible answer for what can I say

to him to do to make him want to do

this. And the answer is nothing. There's not anything you can say to him.

>> I wish there was one phrase, one way of

doing it. But this is a very entrenched

position that he has taken to the point he's willing to give up his marriage

>> over this. And so there's not a single phrase. If he was coming to the table

and saying, "Hey, I want to work on this. Let's go to counseling." I could give you some things to say to do all that. But but in this situation,

you know, you're just going to be uh you know, just throwing water against the wall. There's nothing happening here.

So, um I I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you

chose poorly in a husband. This guy This

guy's bad news. >> Too bad. Yeah. Um, you wouldn't, no one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy.

Not a person out there. Uh, regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else was going on in the house, all that kind of thing. But >> this is a guy that isn't is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband and >> that's sad. >> You're, you know, there's not a single phrase that's going to make him not be a jerk.

I don't have the not be a jerk phrase.

And I'm sorry. I wish it was. I wish it wasn't something we could just do. But unless he just decides that he wants to be together, unified, work together in

full visibility, and in order to save his marriage and start with a marriage

counselor, then you're you're not going to make it, kiddo. I'm sorry. I wish you were.

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Maria is in Arkansas. Hi, Maria. How are

you? >> Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

I'm a little nervous, so I'll try to do my best. >> Um, but I guess I'm trying to get an advice for my husband and I. Um, we're trying to start building our forever home. Um, and sometimes we're like, "Yeah, let's go ahead and, you know, get in bed, you know, take a loan out." And then there's times where we usually be like, "Well, what if we just cash flow everything and call it a day." >> Um, we are debtree.

>> Um, we don't have any car payments, anything like that. >> That's good. >> And we have been saving um for the past couple of years. Both of us got >> um a raise, a pretty big raise.

>> So, how much have you saved?

Uh, right now it's a little bit over

180k. >> 180. >> What?

>> 80. >> $180,000.

Wow. And what is the house going to cost?

>> Um, the quote that we got, it's around

between 380 and 390.

>> Okay.

Did you save 180 in two years?

>> Yes. >> Wow. >> Excellent.

Yes. So, you know, like I said, we're trying to figure out if it's okay for us to stop investing right now just for a couple of years. >> Yeah. >> Or um you know, to put all that money into cash flow in the house or if it's okay for us to take out a heliloc.

>> Did you save 180 while investing 15%.

>> Yes. No, we were not investing 15%.

We're only investing between 5 and 8%.

>> Okay. Okay. Good. I would stop investing completely. I'm with you. And I would cash flow this thing. And here's the thing you need to remember.

>> It t it'll take you a year to build it.

>> Correct. >> So, you can start in one year

cuz you need two years worth of savings.

You'll have the whole amount, right?

>> Yes. That's what we're hoping for. You know, if everything works out the way, you know, we can find it.

>> I would I would start the house in one year. I'd get all my plans done. Have you got the lot already?

Yes. >> And it's already paid for.

>> Yes. We Is it paid for?

>> I'm sorry.

>> Yes, it's paid for. >> Okay, good. So, all we got to do is just cover the bricks and mortar. Do you have your plans done?

>> Yes. >> You have your builder selected?

>> Yes. >> Awesomeness. Okay. Well, what we do on

what I've done a couple times, including the building we're sitting in, as a matter of fact, I did not have a 100% of

the money in the bank when we broke ground, but I knew it would be here by the time I needed it. Meaning that if it takes you a year to build and um it takes you two years to save the money, then you'd be safe to start building in one year. Does that make sense to you?

>> Yes. Yes, definitely.

>> Yeah. And uh if you can do do this in two years and stop everything and and you'll have a paid for $380,000 plus the

lot 400 $450,000 house.

>> Sweet. >> How old are you guys?

>> I'm 32 and he's 37.

>> That's amazing. >> What's your incomes?

>> Uh it'sund and around 150.

>> How'd you save this money so fast?

>> You guys live on nothing, don't you?

Well, we we I think we're pretty good savers. I think that's the way >> I think you're above average. Yeah, >> it's very impressive.

>> And you are small, so we don't have that much. >> If you move if you moved in two years from today, would you be okay with that?

>> Uh I think I just want to go ahead and get started. I don't mind getting the loan just because I guess I'm more of of the on the emotional side just you don't

really want loan. You just want a house?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I guess you can say that.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, >> but like I said, we we >> teach what we teach is best is paying

cash. Next best is a house you can pay off in 15 years. In your case, you can pay it off in one year.

If you started today and it was finished in one year, you would need to borrow one year's worth of savings rate or about $100,000. and you pay that off in one year. >> Mhm.

>> Yes. I see. >> My my fear is is that you'll let your foot off the gas and not pay it off in one year.

>> That's my fear. So I I would love to

talk you into waiting just one extra year, which will go pretty fast. I mean

>> to me it feels like CO was like last month and it was five almost six years ago.

>> I agree. >> Yeah. And so this my point is this thing goes fast. So if you start um

you know I don't know you guys keep talking about it but anywhere in there is fine with me. If you want to start now you're not doing anything stupid.

It's not it's good, better, best. Okay.

And okay what what you guys are talking about cash flow and 100% is the best. I love that. There's no hiccups in that.

uh you know better than but but you know

and still in the good range is pay it off in one year which is if you took a loan out today and you don't need to take out a loan today you'd need to take out a loan somewhere in the building process because you won't quite have enough to finish it >> correct >> but I mean you could get started today put 180 into it >> if you sloww walk the project >> I was going to say >> and it takes 18 months >> you'll be there >> you can make it you know you'll make it out Okay.

I like the plan of taking dead off the table. And we have to push this through >> cuz it makes you do a whole bunch of stuff. >> Keeps you from having scale creep uh in

the kitchen.

>> You know, you select a different dishwasher, you select a different whatever. >> And I'll add one other thing to this on the emotions. Okay? You can justify a

lot of things emotionally when you say it's my forever house. And I've been doing this for a long time and I grew up with parents in the real estate business. There is no such thing as a forever house.

You will not be there forever. Okay?

>> Statistically, the chances of you dying in this house are very close to zero.

Very close. So this idea of a forever house, there's only one. It's heaven.

That's it. You don't have a forever house here. You're going to move.

Stuff's going to happen. Things are going to change that you can't see, good and bad, that are going to give you an opportunity to move up, move out, move somewhere. And this is a great house and it's a great plan and all of that, but take the pressure off of a forever house because

it's like because then everything has to be perfect. And I've built a bunch of houses that I live in and they're never perfect. It's never a perfect process.

It's a very messy uh combative,

combustive process. And if you put the pressure on it that it has to be perfect because we're going to be here forever. Um, it's just too much. You can't breathe in that. >> Yeah. Plus, you're going to look at it in five years and and want things to look a little different anyway.

>> Oh, I don't even want to talk about it. >> Just saying. Sounds like you have a little experience with that,

>> man. I I Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I But the

And I I sold I was actually when I was 22, I was in were selling houses in a subdivision where we built custom homes.

Mhm. >> And the people in there that were the hardest to deal with were the ones that had had uh they thought this was the going to be their last home, >> right? >> Or their only home ever. And and that puts the pressure on the process to be perfect. >> They're over there every day driving the subs crazy. You know, let them do their work. It's it's a dry it's a piece of drywall. Let them do their job. Okay.

God, for God's sakes, >> you know, and it's just it and and it changes the pressure on how fast we get this done and how much money we take and how much money we spend and all that. >> So anyway, all that to say, Maria, I think you guys have done an extraordinary job. Way to go. We're proud of you.

And if you start this month and you take on a little debt and you pay it off fast, that's not the dumbest thing in the world, but one step smarter would be to cash flow it.

build it. Oh, now we made it. You know, that kind of thing. >> Yeah. I think that's what's going to end up happening anyway. >> Yeah. Takes a minute. Takes a hot minute to get all this stuff done. Uh but yeah, it's a great great way to go. And when you're paying cash like this, you're going to watch every dollar in the budget with the builder. Make sure everything's dialed in and uh you push all those buttons. It makes a big deal.

I don't get that call very often.

>> No, I love a call like that. She has options and she has time which is >> and she's got money and money >> saved it all. They live on nothing.

>> Yeah. >> Pretty impressive.

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John is with us. John's in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, I'm 22 years old. I'm graduating college in May, and I want to buy a car, but I'm not sure if I can afford it. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, how much money do you have, and how much do you want to spend on the car? So, the car is about $13,000 and I have

about $11,000 in cash. Um, but I do have

some savings, some investments, about 40,000. Um, as well as, you know, $9,000

in a Roth IRA. >> What do you mean?

>> Um, so I'm going to be graduating in 3 months and when I graduate I'll make about $65,000 a year.

>> Doing what?

Um, >> going into the wholesale insurance industry. Okay.

>> And you've already secured that job?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Cool, cool, cool. I mean, if you're going to be making 65, you're under our rule. Um, and you're paying cash for it. Um, I don't necessarily have an issue with that. What's going to be your living situation?

>> Um, I'm just going to keep living with my parents and maybe help them pay off the mortgage. >> Now, that's the part that I have issue with. Um, tell me about why you would

continue to live there. I'm assuming you don't have any other debt. Am

I wrong?

>> Um, is because it's they only live about 30 minutes from where I'll be working.

Um, and I'd rather start saving up money before getting a place of my own.

>> Uh, you may have cut out when I asked you about the debt. Do you have any other debt? >> I have no debt. >> You have no debt. So, >> you know, $40,000 in savings.

>> Uh-huh. $65,000 income >> and a brand new car. Why do you got to live at home? This is your time to strike out.

Really? Right after I graduate.

>> Oh, absolutely. >> Yes. It's the best time.

The most exciting time.

>> Okay. >> I hope your dating life, too.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. I'll bet. >> Yeah. Girls are not as exactly attracted to guys who live in their mother's basement.

>> Wow. So, >> it's true. You know, it's okay to pull

money out of my investments, even though about half of it, 20,000, is capital gain. So, >> what do you need to pull back? $2,000,

>> right? But what's the car you're wanting to buy? >> So, it is a 1999 Mercedes SL500.

>> No, I would not buy that car.

>> Oh, come on. >> No. And here's why. The car is absolutely stone cold fabulous.

I love the car. The maintenance on that

car for a guy in your situation is

absurd.

Maintaining that old Mercedes is going to cost you a freaking arm and one of your legs.

>> It's going to it's going to destroy you, man. You're going to wish you had never seen that car. Let me tell you, it it's serious eye candy, though. I'm with you.

It is an absolutely beautiful automobile, and it's a classic. I love what you're looking at, but dude, it's going to cost you five, six th,000 bucks a year to keep this stinking thing rolling.

Can you tell I've owned a Mercedes or two >> or six or 20? I mean, I've had a bunch

of them and there's a lot of cost to

keep the thing rolling. Get you something that doesn't cost anything to maintain that is going to be just as much fun. And that would be a newer model, similar price range of something

that doesn't require constant stinking maintenance.

>> Okay, >> that's that's old man joke, man. But it's the truth. >> So, we've just told you to do the two things not to do the two things that you called on here wanting to do, WHICH IS BUY BUY THE Mercedes and live at your parents house. >> What What are the What are the odds you do either one of them, John?

I will. I will. Don't worry.

>> Okay. All right. So, yeah, I I think if you had a uh a fun car that was very

highly reliable and requires almost no maintenance that is 13 to or 10 to $15,000 and you pay cash for it and you make a 90-day plan to move out for mom and dad after you get started in your job and you're actually making the 65k, I think that's a great plan and that's what I would tell my own son to do.

>> Okay. buy something that doesn't require maintenance.

>> Man, I tell you that's a great car, though. >> I I don't know anything about the car. I just Googled it to see what it looked like. Classic. It was classic.

>> It's It's a I think it's a beauty.

>> Yeah, classic. >> It's a good old looking good looking old Mercedes. And >> yeah, >> it's great. But they just It doesn't matter. Every time I take the thing to the shop, it's just like dad come, man.

It's unbelievable.

>> And so they are not easy to maintain.

>> Well, >> they're not cheap to maintain. and and the fact you buy a cheap car, but then you're having a high maintenance bill, >> right? >> If you're going to buy a cheap car and then get something that doesn't have a have to you work on all the time. >> Yeah. Let's talk about real quick this uh living at home business because he

was the stark opposite of Alvaro who did

his debtree scream on Friday.

>> Okay. So, uh, Alvaro graduated from

college, similar age, and lived at home, made his parents a deal, and said, "Can I live at home debtree for me to pay off, I think it was 70 or $90,000 of student loans, >> cuz he had done the math and said, if I pay interest, if I do this, it's going to take too long." And he said, "And after a year, if I'm not working hard enough, you can charge me double rent." >> And so, a year passed, they saw he was working very hard. He ended up paying off all the student loans, did his debtree scream.

Perfect example of saying, "I'm gonna graduate. I'm gonna live at home for a short period of time in order to win.

>> And I I personally >> wouldn't do that unless you have debt to pay off, but just to sit at home and just stack up money at such a key point in life when it's time for you to go out and be your own person, I just wouldn't do it. I think it's more uh detriment than good at that point.

Yeah, the just my personal opinion.

You're >> you're trying to look at this only through the lens of money and there's social development, there's career development, there's confidence, um there's everything else involved.

>> So each one of our kids, we love them dearly and they were more than welcome to stay in our home forever except it wasn't good for them. >> Yeah. >> And so uh we help them make arrangements

within a month or two of graduation to be on their own. And then when you pay your own light bill, you make your own bed, you buy your own milk, now you're an adult.

Your mommy's not cleaning your underwear. I mean, it's time, you know,

and honestly, you're more attractive to employers because you walk different.

You're more attractive to the opposite sex because you walk different. You have the shoulders thrown back, a little confidence, little swagger, like I got this thing. >> Yes. >> And I'm, you know, and I'm actually doing it. And there's a confidence that comes from having the dignity of being

on your own. And we've got a large percentage of you parents out there who are encouraging your children to not develop into adults because you got a whole bunch of 26 year olds living in mommy's basement. And they've all got an opinion about capitalism with their $1,100 Apple phone, which is more than

just humorously stupid as well. So the

uh you know, it changes everything. I think it changes everything when you start. It's on me. There's no bread in

the cabinet cuz I didn't buy bread. It's on me and it changes everything.

>> I think so. And >> and I I we're we're hurting this generation by not allowing them to do some hard things. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, no shade on John, like he's done a great job. He, you know, came out of college with no debt. He's got money saved. All of those good things.

But that's also understanding you're in a great position to be on your own. It's okay. This is why you do this. >> This is good.

>> Yeah. I left with a $112 in my checking account. So >> Oh, yeah. >> That's how hillbillies do it.

I'm just saying. But yeah, >> when I moved out, >> get out. >> When I moved out of my parents house, I moved into a friend's apartment that already had two roommates.

>> Oh. >> And that's all I had. But I wanted to get out. I was ready. >> Hello. Net worth. Yeah. when your net worth is a futon. >> It's all I had. It was not comfortable.

>> 10 out of 10. Wouldn't recommend.

town.

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might not be in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Mason in New Hampshire. He says, "I bought a house about 5 years ago. My name is on the deed and my dad cosigned so I could get a lower interest rate.

Now, my dad is pressuring me to refinance to get his name off the loan.

I'm not behind on payments. Am I legally obligated to do this? I don't think I should have to refinance because he made the choice to sign for me." Uh, I like this question. Are you legally obligated? No, you're not legally obligated. My guess is your dad is

trying to do something else financially.

Maybe he's I don't know. Who knows? Maybe he's trying to buy a house, but he's got a lot of this debt tied to his name, or maybe he realized co-signing is

really a stupid, stupid act, and he's trying to make that right. I don't know what you guys' uh conversations have been like, but if I were in your shoes, Mason, um my guess is one of two things is taking place. Number one, if you've looked at refinancing to get his name off and you've realized you cannot afford the loan on your own, that might be something that's keeping you from doing this. Um, and if that's the case,

I >> if you paid the bill for 5 years and you paid it on time, refinancing should not be a problem. >> It shouldn't be. >> The co the cost to refinance, maybe your dad wants to chip in some of that to get them get his name off the loan.

>> And um, so >> my guess is it's an interest rate thing.

Uh, no. My guess is he just didn't want to fool with it and he thought this was a forever deal. So, here's the bottom line, Mason. What you all did was stupid.

He should not have done this because at the moment he was trying to help his kid get a house.

But there was no end to the deal in your

mind. In his mind, he wants to get off

of it now. and you're just like, well, he could stay on there forever and screw up his life forever because he can't buy nothing else as long as his name is on this. This is a liability in his name.

So, he's he's gonna have trouble getting a mortgage himself is the problem >> or refinancing his mortgage is a problem. Anything like that, >> he can't do anything. He's stuck.

>> So, it was a stupid idea and now you

guys are tied at the hip and it's not bothering you at all.

So it Yeah. Yes, you should refinance this on a moral basis, not on a legal basis. If at all possible, I'd figure out a way to refinance it. And if I was your dad and I wanted off this loan, I'd pay the closing cost so to get to get rid of the thing. >> Yeah. >> And I help you guys get it done and get the deal done. So here's the thing,

folks. If someone can't afford to buy

the property or buy the item without a co-signer, it's going to be a pinch later.

The banks, they love to loan money more than they love to breathe.

And if they won't loan you money without a co-signer, it's because you're not eligible. Hello. They would love to give

you money >> and rip you off in any possible way they can. And then parents come along and go, "Oh, I'll help you get screwed." >> You know, that's just dumb.

And and dads and moms, you're not h you're not a blessing to your child when you do this. You're helping them step into a bear trap going, "Step right here, son. This is how it's done." Well, that's dumb. Okay. Don't do this.

Because you get in these situations is what happens. Worse than this situation is where the guy's not paying the bill.

We get that one all the time. >> Exactly. >> Oh, my grand my grandmother my grandmother co-signed for my car and it's 42% interest. And now my granny's

about to get screwed cuz I'm going to get repoed. 100% of these deals go bad.

Of course, it goes bad. So, please, please, please do not cosign. It's in the Bible. Proverbs 17:18.

One lacking in sense cosigns for another. It's what the Bible says. So,

you're lacking in sense when you do this. I have cosigned back in my other earlier days, and I got to pay the bill almost every time. >> One fool cosigned for me, and then I went broke >> and he ended up paying the bill. Oh, man. and they had to go back and pay him back later. His wife still not happy with me 30 years later cuz we were fools

signing up for a bunch of crap that we thought was going to work out that everybody else knew wasn't going to work out. Carson is in Cincinnati. Hey Carson, how are you?

>> Good. Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay, so my wife and my stepson, they

live separate from me. They're German citizens and they're waiting to get their visas approved so they can live here with me. But that is expected to

take anywhere between one to two years from now. >> Are they in Germany?

>> They are. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So my question is,

how should I be prioritizing my time alone and what debts should I be

focusing on to make sure that my family is set up for success when they get here? >> And how long have you been married?

>> September. >> Cool. And how'd you meet?

>> I was stationed over there in the army.

>> Thank you for your service. Okay.

>> Thank you. So, if you get married, I I don't know how this stuff works. I'm ignorant about it. It takes two years to get a foreign citizen wife on site.

>> Well, uh, if we had gotten married while I was still in the army, it would have been a lot quicker, but we decided to get married after I got out and the

current administration has been very fluid with immigration. So, that was the

update I received was 12 to 24 months.

Shoot. >> Okay. I'm going to keep getting updates and I'm going to keep uh learning if I'm you because that's an unacceptable answer as far as I'm concerned. But the um because the current administration has not got a war going with people coming here legally. It's the ones coming here illegally. And so they're not trying to put a block on immigration in general. That's not that's not the spirit of what's happening out there right now. Uh I was with some customs guys yesterday. So anyway, I don't know

anything about the law on that or the regulations today, but I'm going to keep pushing if I mute. Answer to your question is, well, get out of debt as fast as you can, as much as you can, and stack as much cash as you can. Right.

>> Right. Okay. So, I got the numbers and I'll share them with you. Okay.

>> Tell us. >> Okay. So, my net income, I receive

$5,200 a month for my job, and I receive

compensation from the VA for injuries.

That is $2,300 a month

>> on top of the 52.

>> Yes. For a total of $7,500 net per

month. >> Good. Okay.

the debts that I have. I have a mortgage

for a house that I bought for 153,000.

I have 140 remaining on the mortgage.

Uh I have 26,000 in home renovations on

a loan that I've got and $13,000 in

student loans and $4,300 in credit card

debt. Okay, cut up the credit cards.

Let's get on a tight budget. Pay them off as fast as you can, then pay off the student loan. You ought to be able to do that pretty quick if it's just you.

Are you sending money to Germany?

>> I am. A portion of my check is going over there to her to support her while we wait. >> How is she How is she being supported before you got married?

>> So, she still works a job right now. Uh she has just moved out of her apartment to her mother's house to get ready for when we do get the green light for the visa to move over here. >> Does she have any debt or anything uh that we need to take note of?

>> She has a $6,000

loan on the car remaining and I've offered to pay that off for her but she has elected not to.

>> Is there she has a sense of >> she has a sense of duty to pay it off.

She feels it was her loan. She wants to

pay it off herself. >> Well, here's the thing. I I know that you guys are living separately, but you are married, so there's really no reason to not uh attack this together and work

on this together. So, I I mean, if the $6,000 car loan is the only thing, even if it wasn't, I would still stack this into a debt snowball. And I would still combine you guys' margin together and all of your monies together. And whatever the margin you both have together goes at the smallest debt, which in this case still >> she's still working and she went from an apartment to mother. She shouldn't be needing money.

>> That's true. There should be more.

>> She was making it before. >> Now she should be easily making it. And so you shouldn't be have having to send money and use it to clean up debt. What I would do. But hey, it sounds like you got it got it on the run though. List your debts smallest to largest. Attack them in that order, dude.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washoff, Ramsey personality is my co-host, number one bestselling author. Carrie is in Detroit. Hey, Carrie. What's up?

>> Hi. Longtime listener, big fan. I'd like to thank you very much because I'm finally to baby step four.

>> Way to go. >> Way to go.

>> Um, I am 51 years old. Oh, going to be 51 years old this year. Um, I have not invested anything. I was widowed very young. Um, I just spent the last 17

years trying to survive and raise my two kids. Um, like I said, I just got to baby step four. I have about 20,000 put away into savings. >> Good. >> Um, I have nothing left but my house, which I have about 90,000 on, and I am about six years into a 15-year mortgage on that. >> Phenomenal. What do you make?

>> Um, I make roughly around 64,000 a year.

It is a little bit variable because I'm in business for myself. Um, so I'm a

housekeeper, >> so there are times that people cancel on me. So, >> um, but for the most part, my income is right around 5,500 a month.

>> Good for you. Well done.

>> Um, my question is is never investing,

never having any type of retirement or anything. Where do I start to invest?

especially with the market being volatile and having no financial

education on how to invest money at this

point. >> Okay, that's a really really good question. I love your question.

>> Also, do I invest more than 15% at this

point because I have a little bit of cash fluidity? >> Nope. You put it on the house. Let's get the house paid off above 15%.

>> Maybe steps four, five, and six work together. Uh, sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. Click Smart Investor Pro at Ramseysolutions.com.

Their job is not to do it for you. Their

job is to teach you and say, "Here's how a mutual fund works. Here's what it is.

Here's how stable this type of fund is.

Here's how volatile this other type of fund is. And here's what we can do with a Roth IRA for you." and probably a you

got employees.

>> No, I am sole proprietor and okay then

uh you can look at a uh a simple IRA as well or a simplified pinching plan.

Either one you can do Roth in all of them. So you can easily get to 15% of your income going in. You'll be just easy to do that in your situation. start with just a Roth and then if you have to do a little bit more in an SEP, a simplified employee pension plan, it's easy to do and they're very easy to set up. They're very inexpensive to set up, not a lot of fees.

And then just start putting a systematically 15% of your income away.

If you never get a raise and you do that for the next 15 years, you're going to retire with dignity.

>> Thank you. Because that has been a huge worry of mine. >> No, >> not anymore. Not when you learn the math. Okay. So, one of the things you do when you sit down with them and you say, "Okay, what's 15% of 65,000?" All right, so quickly we're

going to figure out that that is $10,000. Okay, it's about 850 bucks a

month. And you start doing that and you do that for 15 years, you're going to have a bazillion freaking dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can't do it in my head right now, but you're going to have plenty. Okay?

And uh you can actually look at the calculator on the Ramsey website and it'll help you figure that out too. But um you just steadily invest and we're

not going to ring our hands and worry about the market being volatile because the market is up, the market is down, but you don't lose all your money. It just makes a little more, it makes a little less. That's all it is. It's like some years houses go up more in value and some years they don't. Right.

>> Right. >> But they're still a good investment. They're volatile, but there's a good investment. Not very volatile, but they're vol. They do go up and down. There's not a guarantee, but you're counting on the track record of real estate. It's always gone up. Some years

more than others. Some years may be down a little, but most the time it goes up.

A good mutual fund or series of mutual funds in your Roth IRA will do the same thing. And you'll have plenty. You're going to be okay. But you need to learn about all of that and to where because

what happens is your anxiety about the markets, your anxiety about investing and not knowing goes away the more you do know.

>> Absolutely. Because right now I am completely bound by fear cuz I'm I don't know anything. And it's just it's taken me so far just to get to this point.

>> And what that fear should do is drive you to learn,

not drive you to not do it.

>> Right. And that's where I've been hesitant. >> Exactly. So that that's normal. There's two there's two kinds of There's two kinds of fear for me. >> There's two kinds of fear. Fear that helps us avoid touching a hot stove.

Good fear. Fear that keeps us That's

false evidence appearing real. It's just something we don't know about it. We're teaching our child to ride a bicycle.

They're afraid. But you and I know they're going to be okay. They may fall over, scratch their little knee, but they're going to be okay. And they're going to have hours and hours and hours and years of enjoyment of riding a bicycle. So, we put them to push them through the false evidence appearing real. They're not going to die. They're going to fall over. Oops. Okay. And so,

you learn that this is that's what this is. You're learning to ride a bike.

You're not going to have a any scratch knees, by the way. But you are going to have the fear of the unknown, which is different than the fear of the hot stove.

>> Okay, >> you can do this. If I were in your shoes, I would start with reading. And

Ramsey Solutions has wonderful articles that are very easy to read and comprehend and understand. And I would start there. And if a word pops up that you're like, what do they mean by that?

I would look up the definition. And I would just go down that rabbit trail and and learn more and more and more. And do that regularly. And after a while, the words that used to sound scary and big and you don't know what that means, that goes away.

And you start to understand it more. And that way when you do go to meet with your smart vetor, you're going to understand what they're talking about and it's not going to feel like they're up here and you're down here.

>> That's their job is to make this easy.

Make it easy to understand. And if it's not easy to understand, get you a different person. Don't use that person.

>> Correct. Um, are there any books that you would also recommend?

>> Um, Baby Steps Millionaires.

>> Okay. Matter of fact, we'll give it to you. Okay, hang on. We'll sign you up for that. Yeah, just check smartvester pro at ramseysolutions.com and sit down.

You're looking for financial people with the heart of a teacher. Too many people

around numbers think they need to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I have no idea what the freak they said. Right. So, no.

You want somebody that talks in in a language that you can understand and they teach you this is how this works and here's a mutual fund that's been open a 100red years. Here's a mutual fund that's been open 90 years. It's had four down years in the last 27 years.

Yeah. >> And you can look at the chart and go, "Oh, look at that. The stinking thing made money 24 out of 27 years." Okay. I

that gives me a comfort level. That's an actual fund, by the way. >> Okay. So, >> you can look at these things and get a handle on that and then you go, "Oh, okay. Okay. Well, then maybe it's not as scary. Ooh, the markets and everybody lost all their money. No, they didn't.

They lose some cuz they buy high and sell low cuz they freak out and don't watch what's going on. So, that's the difference. So, you're going to do really, really good. You're going to end up wealthy and you deserve to be. You've worked hard. You've been a warrior single mom. Very good. >> A warrior princess cleaning houses to

raise those kids. And now you're going to retire with dignity. I'm so proud of you.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseyssolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Greg is in Nashville. Hey, Greg. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I have some whole life policies

that me and my wife got like when we

were like 20. I'm 50. I'll be 55 this

year. >> I'm sorry. >> And I I know. I know. I've heard I've been listening to you for the last year or so, but my question is on it. Should

we cash surrender those? Uh there's each

about 100,000 cash surrender. I don't

think we have to pay out anymore. I think they've we've had them since we were so young that uh I think they pay

for themselves each year now.

>> Yeah. And uh I don't know if it's worth I don't necessarily need uh I mean I could always use extra money but um I don't know if it's worth doing the cash to render on those policies or just leave them. They're small. I think they're $150,000 policies or something like that when we got them originally.

>> Okay. So you have $150,000 policy with $100,000 cash value.

>> Is that right? >> Yes. >> And you and you have two grows like they sold you on that stuff when you're young. >> No. I'm I'm going to make sure I understand what you've got. Stop a second. >> Do you have two $150,000 policies and

each of them have a $100,000 cash value in them?

>> Yes. If we were to surrender them now, >> that's what I'm asking. Okay, good.

Okay. And so if you die, you know they

keep the $100,000, right? So you have $50,000 worth of insurance in essence.

Do you follow me?

>> Yeah. that I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows and I that I didn't understand.

>> I don't understand it either because it's the biggest screw drop of the middle class in my life I've ever seen, but it happens all the time. So that's how a whole life policy works. >> I do have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago.

>> Okay. So you're covered if you die, right? You don't need them.

>> Yeah. >> No. And and my question is even about the term too is like do I need to keep

that up if my value or like my personal

value or me my wife's value is over that

amount should I like do I need that life insurance or is it just >> keeping even after what life insurance is for is to take care of her if

something happens to you. If you have $5 million in mutual funds, you don't need life insurance. She's taken care of.

>> Okay? >> Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> What how life insurance for is to take care of you. If something happens to her

and if you have a big pile of money and you're okay without her income, then she

doesn't need you're self-insured on all of it. Okay.

>> Then back to the whole life. the whole life is paying an average of about 2% in growth on that 100,000.

Had that 100,000 been in mutual funds last year, it would have made 24%.

Uh on average, it would have made more like 12%. So, you're losing somewhere around 10 to $20,000 a year in growth

because that's so poorly invested. Oh, and by the way, when you die, they're gonna pay $150,000 out.

>> Okay. >> Not a hundred. Not Not plus $100,000.

>> Do I have to pay if we do the cash surrender, do we have to pay tax on that? >> Your tax basis in a whole life policy is what you have paid into it over all these years. I suspect you've paid $100,000 into this over all these years.

>> I would assume that.

>> So, your basis is probably higher. It almost always is. Uh if it's not, it

won't be by much. So you if you have taxes, it'll be very very very small.

But you're if you just say here's what my premiums were over this number of years and number of months or whatever it is that you know the 25 or 30 years you've been getting ripped off, then easily you probably paid in 100k. You're going to get your money back out. And yes, I would cash it in. And if what did you what do you think your net worth is?

M I mean I think it's close to six maybe

if I were to sell everything. Yeah, if I were to sell everything. >> So do you think that the current asset base would generate enough income for your wife to be okay if you died today?

>> Man, I think so. I hope so. I hope so. I think so. >> Yeah, I think I think pretty easily. I mean, that was kind of one of my other questions is I got this I got some industrial property that I don't necessarily need anymore that I have that I still owe about

I mean, if I were to sell it, I could cash that out for about 2 million bucks

maybe. >> Yeah. >> Uh after taxes, but I do make income on

that. >> It's up to you. What do you want your money invested in? That's an investment.

And then you look at it and say, "Is this an investment that's giving me enough yield on my money?" I mean, long-term investments you ought to be making 10 plus percent on whatever it is, real estate, mutual funds, whatever.

There's not really anything else that you should that that's fairly low risk portfolio that'll do that. Mine make a lot more than that and I don't take a lot of risk. So, but you got to look at that piece of industrial property. Is it making you a good return?

And then dump that. But um folks, the

whole life cash value policy is the

biggest ripoff in the financial planning world. Um uh I mean it's like it's like the payday lender to the middle class. You know, payday lender screws poor people, right?

And these people screw you. And um it's

a horrible rate of return. When you die, they keep your money because you've been paying extra for this savings account that you don't get. They only pay the face value when you die. It's that simple. And so get some inexpensive term

insurance while you need insurance. This

guy doesn't even need that anymore probably. Um and

put your money, your investment money in good investments that go up and they don't keep it when you die. And and then you're not building a building in the skyline for somebody else. Where you think those life insurance buildings came from? They didn't come from Santa Claus.

I know that. the same same place those banks came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. It came from them screwing you with credit cards all these years.

And you're just smiling and going, "I got airline miles." And you're just getting screwed over and over and over again. And it's just, you know, that's how this stuff happens. It's called a transfer of wealth from you to them because they're screwing you.

Changes everything. James is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, James. How are you?

doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. Um, I have a my youngest sister.

She and her ex-boyfriend

inherited a4 million dollars about three

to four years ago. Um, he has since

passed from cancer.

and he um at the time I was going through a messy divorce. And he gave me

$6,000 to pay for my lawyer so I can take care of my divorce. I was going through a rough time um as a gift.

And since then, you know, he's passed on

like I said, and she has blown through

all that money um in the meantime and and is back to square one again. >> Wow. And yeah, and she has not come out

and said directly to me, but I heard it through my um other sister and she keeps

asking, you know, saying, "Hey, he needs to pay me back that $6,000. You know, that's that was my money." And >> so she's saying that he the boyfriend got the money from her and lent it to you. >> No, no, no. It was his his parents. It

was his inheritance from his parents.

>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. and and I can afford to pay it back now. I'm I'm in a good spot um in my life and I can afford to to to pay it back. I just don't feel like I have to.

I've helped her out with bills and stuff now that she's going to have a lot of money like, you know, the occasional electric bill, things like that where she's, you know, called me up and said, "Hey, can you know I've I've done stuff like that before." >> Y'all are a hot mess, aren't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. >> Are you Are you afraid that she's going to do You're just afraid. You're like, "Why do I give her another $6,000 to be irresponsible with is what you're saying?" >> That and you know, she has three kids with them. They're older. They're um 17,

18 in that range. But uh >> Well, I mean, there James, there's two options. Okay. The third option is not keep whining about it. Okay. I would either call her and say, "Your boyfriend gave me this money. It's a gift. I'm not going to pay it back." >> Or I'd write her a check.

But third option, I'm going to keep whining about this and y'all keep this family drama going on on and who said what and who told George this and good lord for $6,000.

>> Straighten it up, man.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyssolutions.com/agent.

That's rammissysolutions.com/

debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey

Solutions. Chevy and Caitlyn are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y'all live? >> Cordon, Indiana. >> Okay, cool. And what's that near?

>> Louisville, Kentucky. >> Okay. All right, that works. Works for me. Perfect. How much debt have y'all paid off? >> We've paid off 95,000 in 34 months.

>> Good for you. Way to go. And your range of income during that 3 years?

>> Started at 113,000 and ended about 156.

>> Good for you. What do you all do for a living? >> I'm a assistant nurse manager in a NICU in Louisville, Kentucky. >> Fine. Good for you. >> I'm an executive director of a maintenance facility at a trucking company. >> There you go. Good. Good. Good. What kind of debt was the 95,000? our mortgage. >> YOU PAID OFF YOUR HOUSE. I >> did. >> Look at it, people. I love it. Way to

go, you guys. What's the house worth?

>> Uh, just under 500,000. Nice.

>> Very cool. Very cool. And you all been investing in retirement, I assume?

>> Yes. >> How much are your nest eggs?

>> Uh, we're up to 130 uh between the three like 130 per

account for three accounts. That's awesome. >> Awesome. >> Okay. So, you're getting close to a million dollar net worth. >> Yeah. Net worth. Figured it up on the drive down just a hair over 900,000 >> now. Almost. I blink and you're going to be millionaires. How old are you two?

>> 34 >> and 36.

>> WAY TO GO. I'M SO PROUD OF Y'ALL. BOOM.

BOOM. BOOM. >> Baby steps. Millionaires almost in a paid for house and not even 35 years old.

Way to go. >> Excellent. >> Excellent. Excellent.

Excellent. Okay, so what started this whole journey doing this crazy Ramsay stuff that made you millionaires? Uh, so Chevy did actually um right around the time that we got engaged, he came home and said, "I think I want to do this program." And I kind of looked at him like he had six heads. I was like, "I I don't know what you're talking about right now." Uh, so we used it as a premarital counseling kind of thing.

got married, we combined our debt. Um, so we actually entered Baby Step 7 for the first time in 2020, right around the time that CO was shutting everything down. >> Uhhuh. Um, after that we started a family and decided to upgrade our house.

So, we was able to take 100% of that house we had paid off and kind of move forward to the current house we have now. So, we only had $95,000 in the

mortgage when we bought our house in December of 22. >> Okay. So, a huge down payment from the other one. >> Yes. >> And then had to knock that out quickly.

>> Right. Yeah. That's good for you. Way to

go, y'all. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> How does it feel to be this free at this age? >> Uh, pretty great.

It's awesome. You know, the grass definitely feels different underneath your feet when you step outside after the last house payment. >> Absolutely. Will you ever do it again?

Go back in debt. >> No, >> not not worth it. Next time we'll save up to move up. >> Yeah, we're pretty happy with our house right now. >> I love it. >> I got to believe that it it played a big part in what house you selected to kind of knowing the feeling of dead and not wanting to experience too much of that.

>> Yeah, definitely did.

>> And it really worked out. I mean, uh, when we hit baby step seven, uh, in 2020

when we paid off our house, it was shortly after that we lost our child, our first, uh, born at 18 months.

>> Oh, >> 18 weeks. We lost a little girl, um, Ellison, at 18 weeks. And because we were in baby step seven, I was able to really step back from work and take some time off to get myself right before we moved forward in our lives. And that's kind of when we decided like, we're going to do things a little different from here on out.

We're so incredibly thankful we started FP when we did, or else I really don't know what we would have ended up in that situation. I wouldn't have been able to take that time off of work and really heal ourselves before moving forward. You just never really know what life's going to throw at you. And I think FBU really sets you up to be able to handle anything like that.

>> Wow.

>> Such a heartbreak. And to have the >> have built a life that allowed you the luxury to step back and have a moment to heal from the most devastating possible thing that can happen. Wow. Amazing.

Wow. Very cool. And you got kiddos, too?

>> We do. We have three. Um, two boys and a little girl. They're four, two, and 8 months. How >> beautiful. >> Oh, handful. Okay. Definitely.

>> We were hoping to get through this uh the 95,000 a little quicker, but you know, having three kids born in that timeline, it was slowed us down a little bit.

>> Just a little. Just a little.

But it it was awesome, you know, being able to cash flow, saving up for each child, you know, on top of paying, you know, the mortgage down, too.

>> So, you guys have been through this in in a sense a couple of times.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and so, what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt and be almost millionaires by the time you're 35? >> Uh, definitely communication. We still have budget meetings at the first of every month. We kind of walk through what we want to do that month, if there's any big adjustments coming up.

Um, but there's definitely months that I've struggled staying on task a little more and months he's struggled staying on task a little more. So, communication and definitely just lifting each other up when the other person's struggling.

>> Mhm. >> What are you going to do to celebrate?

>> Uh, we got a few little projects around the house we want to do and then definitely travel some more. We definitely like getting the kids out and showing them all the different things the world has to offer. >> Yeah. We just got back from New York City last weekend. We got caught in the blizzard up there. >> Oh gosh. >> That was a blast. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was crazy, >> man. Get caught up there with babies.

That'd be great.

>> Mommy, daddy trip that time. That's good. First trip out of the house without all three of them and got stuck in a blizzard. >> Still takes the edge off of it, but Oh my gosh.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, good for you guys.

Congratulations. We're very, very proud of you. Do you have people encouraging you along the way or thought you were crazy? >> Uh, a little bit of both.

Yeah, they our families are definitely encouraged us along the way. Kind of side eyeing us the whole time like, uh, you guys are still a little crazy, but we're going to support you in what you're going to do. So, we definitely couldn't have done it without our family support. >> They were definitely after us cuz I was selling everything I could find in the house left and right on eBay and Facebook.

>> A little bit of both. >> Yeah. It got to the point they were afraid to gift us something if we didn't actually want it or need it because it would probably be up on eBay or Facebook. >> Wow.

I would have given you something for Christmas, but you'd have sold it. >> Yeah, pretty much. We we actually heard that several times.

>> That's funny. >> That's funny. Well, way to go y'all. Did you bring the kiddos with you? >> Yeah, they're here. >> All right, let's bring them up and introduce them for the debtree scream.

Oh, man. >> I thought I heard them in the background. >> Oh, man. >> This is Nash. >> This is a reason to change your family tree right here. >> This is Finn and this is Townson.

>> All right. Well, you guys have got mom and dads that are heroes. They've taken care of you. They set you up for a incredible life. Yeah, you guys are in in great great shape. Well, so proud of you guys. Congratulations.

>> Chevy and Caitlyn from Indiana. 95,000

paid off in 34 months, making 113 TO

156. HOUSE AND EVERYTHING. WE'RE LOOKING AT WEIRD PEOPLE. COUNT IT DOWN. LET'S HEAR A DEBTREE SCREAM.

>> READY, BOYS? 3 2 1.

>> We're debtree.

Ah, I like it.

>> That's great. >> I love it. I love it. I love it.

>> And then I read the articles of the U

millennials and the Gen Z's that can't get ahead and can't afford a house, but these guys figured out on $156,000

income to not only have a paid for home, have three children. Yeah.

>> And have a net worth approaching a million dollars very quickly, not even 35 years old. So, um I don't know. It

just it confuses me that it can't be done and yet it's done every day here.

>> Sounds like a combination of will and

location. Will, location, and income.

>> Yeah. And and those are all tied together, by the way. You can choose your location and >> you can choose your will and you can choose to affect your income in a lot of ways. That's right. So, >> yeah. But um we talked to people that

make twice that and think they can't afford a house. >> That's absolutely true. >> That that housing prices are just out of reach for American couples today. You can't house affordability issues. We have affordability issues. I wish the president would wave a wand and make it all go away. I wish mommy and daddy would make me not make me be an adult.

But yeah, the math still is there. And these people just did it. >> Well, earlier we talked to the folks that made 150,000 a year and they were saving up. They were almost there to buy it in cash. $400,000 house.

>> Yeah, they were in Arkansas. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, >> they were uh >> Yeah, they were I don't know what they how they were doing that.

>> That was even beyond wow.

>> They were living on crazy.

>> But uh it absolutely works. So Chevy and Caitlyn have uh become heroes for Finn,

Nash, and Townsen. They those little babies, they're beautiful. Their lives have been changed and they don't even know it yet. >> Pretty crazy. And they go through a tragedy. >> Yeah. to to put to to boot in the middle of the thing. So, just absolutely amazing. Yeah. It's never a straight line, but there's a line.

>> There's a line.

>> Way to go, you guys.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

Our

scripture of the day, Naam 17. The Lord is good, a refuge in times of trouble.

He cares for those who trust in him.

Simon Synynic said, "It is a luxury to put our interests first. It is an honor to put the interests of others before our own." Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what to do late do next.

Uh we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a little below 400,000 last month, which is typical for this time of year. Mortgage rates are sitting at about 5.44 in January, down uh from 6.27

last January, giving buyers some breathing room. We're starting to see some movement in the market. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or YouTube. Joshua is in Los Angeles. Hey Joshua, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Um it has been uh let me say about

two or three years since I've been trying to get on the radio and I am truly glad that it is you and Jade. Um,

obviously everybody else on the show is amazing, but I I needed some tough love from Dave today.

Um, so I've made some mistakes um, financially.

I've Let's see. At the beginning of 2025, I purchased a uh, Toyota Corolla.

I purchased it out. I went to a credit union um, and the total amount was about 30,000. And then at the end of la of

this previous year, I got a truck.

Um I know not smart. Um so I'm in a hole

that I am uh regretting digging and so

I've been trying to uh dig myself out but I keep on running into roadblocks.

>> Oh, you keep jumping from hole to hole as part of it, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, what do you owe on the truck?

>> So, I owe on the truck 46.

>> Oh, boy.

>> Um, and then I

Let's see. I have a personal loan for uh

8,000. And then I have um probably about

a couple thousand credit cards. And then

I want to pursue higher education. And that's going to cost about 40,000 >> at um Grand Canyon University for

pursuing um

what is it called? My LPC license.

>> Yeah, that's off the table. You get this mess cleaned up. You got a $40,000

problem. I don't need to create another one. >> Exactly. Yeah, I know. And >> Okay. So, what do you make? >> I call uh So, I make currently about 56

a year. >> Okay. Um, I've been very work I've been

working very diligently to find more

income. Um, and so I have an opportunity to work for a previous employer and make about an

extra like 12 to 15 uh extra a year.

>> Good. Um, and so I'm thinking like I'm

thinking that that would solve

this issue of the >> Well, that get rid of the truck. What's the truck worth?

>> The truck is worth 42.

>> Well, that's not too >> Okay. So, you need four You need $4,000 and you can sell the truck, right?

>> Right. >> Well, let's get rid of that thing.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, >> how quickly could you save up the difference?

um >> 4,000 bucks. >> I would I'd probably say like

realistically um if I just make the minimum payments on my credit cards, it'd probably be like maybe like 3 months.

>> No, I want you going hard in the paint working every hour you get to do this.

>> Take the new job, get the income up, and you need to get rid of this truck in a month or so. >> Where do you live? What's your living situation?

I currently live with my parents.

>> Okay. You live So you don't even have rent to pay? >> No, I don't. >> Then this should go in. So what if you if all this all you have is minimum payments? You have no rent.

>> Yeah. >> If you make your $4,000 from your current job and you go out and side hustle and kill it, that'd be my goal.

>> What are you spending money on? >> Yeah.

>> Car, gas, insurance, and credit card minimums. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So >> yeah. So yesterday, let's get rid of this truck. >> Right. >> The thing is, you got to decide. You got to decide if this truck is really as stupid as we have.

>> And once you decide that, cuz I'm I'm really, if I'm in your shoes, I'm really pissed about this truck, >> cuz it's standing between you and a good future. >> And so that means you got to that means you got to bust it and get rid of the stupid thing as fast as possible. It's a curse. It's not a blessing.

>> Okay. And um do you have any

recommendations on how to like obviously like private sale? Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Um and then on top of that, I've tried

Oh, no, never mind. That's a credit union. But I tried purchasing it purchasing it outright. Um but that didn't um work.

>> What do you mean?

>> Um meaning I was I went from I was going to go from a lease to a purchase, but

>> um >> Oh, it's a lease.

So, >> what's the payoff amount?

>> 42 is >> 462. Yeah, >> 46 is worth 42. >> 46. Yeah. >> So, you're saying that you can't buy it out and then turn around and sell the car?

>> Yeah, you can. Okay. And so you what you

have to do is find someone, a dealer or a person that will write you a check for 42. You have to add four to that check

and buy out the lease. They hand you the title, you hand the buyer the title, and that's how the process goes down. You may need some help with that with a friend that's around car dealers, but um you know, with how to actually mechanically do the transaction in Los Angeles, California, but that's how the method works. You have to have all the money to pay off the lease to get the title and then they hand you the title and you hand the title.

Meantime, the car own the new buyer is driving it off a bill of sale and that's how all transactions work. But uh there's a few little nuances to how they'll go down in in different states and how the process works. And I'm not positive about California, but that's a concept that you're working off of. Joshua, the big deal is you've got to decide this thing has to go.

>> Yes. >> Suzanne is in Albany, Georgia.

>> Hi. I'm so glad I got through to y'all.

>> I'm glad you did, too. >> How are y'all doing today? >> Better than we deserve. >> My husband I um Well, we have a question. My husband and I are both retired school teachers. Um, we bring in about net about $9,500 a month between

our pension, social security, and we both have part-time jobs. >> Great. >> Our house is paid for. Um, it's worth about two $425,000.

>> Great. >> Um, we have about 300,000 in 401ks and

$15,000 in our Roth. Now, this is the

question. Um, we have a car that we still owe

$10,000 on. And we also have a lot that

we bought um about three years ago for us to build our retirement home on, which we want to pay cash for because we want to sell the current house we're in.

>> All right. >> When we build this house and um we owe it's about $60,000 on that lot we have.

And so we have that that's our only debt. It's 60,000 on the lot. We're paying 7.25% interest. And then the um

car, which is about three and a quarter percent interest. >> When are you gonna build the When are you gonna build the retirement home?

>> Um we want to start maybe um this fall.

>> Okay. The the lot the lot debt will roll up into the construction loan because the construction loan won't take a second mortgage position. They're going to want a first mortgage position. So your construction loan is going to be plus the lot debt.

>> Yes. So that that that's going away and going to roll up into your new mortgage.

Okay. Well, our question was, so in

other words, I see what you're saying, but this is what we were wondering.

Should we um take out the the we you

know, we can take out I want to leave at least five in that Roth, but could we take out 10,000 in the Roth? We wouldn't pay any penalties, pay off the um car with that. And then my husband was thinking about taking the $60,000 out of

his 401 would have to pay 25% tax. You

can pay it off so fast with just your income. >> You make $9,000 a month. Pay off the stinking car. >> That was the question. That was my third. >> Yeah. Pay off the car and then roll the roll the other thing up into the mort up into the thing and then when your house sells, it pays off the >> retirement house, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you'll be debtree with never having touched never having touched your retirement. >> And that's exactly what I would do.

>> Yeah. Just be careful not to overspend on the retirement house. >> House. Yeah. Keep that down under the value of yours. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 156. Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck—Start Living With Options | April 22, 2026


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>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

John Delony joined by Jade Warshaw and we are taking your calls live 888-825-5225.

Let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and talk to Lauren. Hey Lauren, what's up?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> thanks for calling in. What's going on?

>> So, I'm uh looking for some help prioritizing a few big financial moves all at the same time.

Um just to kind of condense it, my husband and I have about 35,000 in credit card debt, um a mortgage with about 193,000 remaining on our townhouse, and I have about $28,000 in

single stocks, and a baby due in

October. >> Congratulations.

>> Thank you. So, we've outgrown our current townhouse and hoping to sell um

and buy something potentially next spring, but I just started listening to the podcast and I know the baby steps say to stop investing and pay off debt before saving for a house, but in our

case the timeline kind of overlaps because of the baby. So, my question is would you recommend we sell the stocks and then use all of it to pay off the debt first, even if that delays our ability to move, or do we split that money between paying down the debt and keeping cash for the home transition so we can still move on the timeline of like next spring?

>> Well, I wouldn't change it because I don't think that anything's actually on fire here. I think you're just really excited, which is not a it's not a bad thing. Do you know what I'm saying? >> your first kid? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's our third one, but >> Oh, third one? It's your third one. So, it's getting cramped. That's where you're feeling it. It's getting cramped in the townhouse. >> Yeah, three under three.

>> Oh, boy. Okay, so I can understand that.

I empathize with you. I don't have three. I have two, and that was wild enough for my life. So, um I love the

idea that that you know, hey, yeah, we got to sell off the stocks. I love that.

That's going to clear out um the majority of your debt, and probably between now and when the baby comes, you'll be able to save up the rest of the money to clear out that debt, which by the way, tell me again, when's the baby due?

>> Um October 9th, so early October.

>> Okay. So, October. So, what I'd be doing is I'd be spending from now until October saving up as much cash as I possibly can, you and your husband. That way, uh when the baby comes, we cash out the stocks, we have hopefully another uh six

or seven thousand dollars, we can pay off the credit card here, and then

everything's all good, and we can start building up towards having our three to six months and everything like that.

And to answer your question, you do need to save three to six months before you buy that house. >> Yeah. So, so why Okay, so you you've been on this road before. I remember all of the panic in Well, most of it was in my chest, but in my home when we were bringing home our first kid.

And I remember just looking at this tiny little lump of a human that couldn't move and was swaddled and was laying there and was just so loud.

What is it about six months after October that you couldn't manage with just bringing home another 10-lb glob, right? You get

what I'm saying? I I know I said that very nice, but

>> We know, we It's a It's a two-bedroom townhouse, so with two kids already,

a boy and a girl, this is an another girl. I mean, they could share rooms. We could make it work, but it's it's just getting a little tight, you >> Yeah, for sure. I get that. I get that.

>> And here's the thing, it is going to be tight. I John and I aren't going to sit here and tell you that it's not going to be uncomfortable. But my question to you would be, how quickly can we get out of this the discomfort and do it in a in a way that's really financially responsible. So, what's you guys' income?

>> Um right now it's I'm the primary breadwinner since my husband just started a business, so I'm $110,000 a

year. >> Now, what's going to happen when the baby comes? Have you talked about that yet?

Do you have You've got maternity leave or what?

>> Yep, I'm a teacher, so there's no maternity leave, but I will have 8 weeks for my C-section and I'll be right back in there. >> Ooh, that's cutting it close on a C-section.

That's cutting it close. I'm just saying, I'll never sing that song again, but um this this this backs up what I'm saying even more because the truth is I've had two, and the truth is you don't know

you don't know how you're going to feel. That's the truth. >> Right. >> And um that backs up what John and I are saying even more to say, "Okay, let's cool out.

Let's let's stack up money because if you need to take a couple extra weeks, if you're not feeling quite right, if standing on your feet for however many plus hours a day as a teacher, I mean, I'm just saying, please wait because that's going to give you the freedom of if you want to take a little bit more time, you can. Um so yeah, I would do that.

what we talked about before, which is how long can it take us uh to stack up the 3 to 6 months so that we can then start um purchasing the the new house. With $110,000, what do you see your husband's income doing between now and then?

>> It kind of fluctuates right now. Um like I said, he just started a business, so we're hoping he got it up and running in November. So, we're hoping that that starts turning a profit.

Um but it's a used car car dealership, so it's just like inventory and things like that. Um So, hopefully that will change.

>> What his business plan say? Like what's his business plan say? What should he be making by, I don't know, say January?

>> Yeah, he's he's hoping to have um about

6 to 10,000 dollars a month.

>> Okay. >> How How realistic is this hope? Cuz I I

I hope I get a million dollars on the way home, but but probably not, right?

How realistic is this hope? >> getting He's getting close for for starting in November, he's getting close to breaking even now. Um so, as long as inventory

can stay consistent, then it it is very

reasonable. He's making about three to four right now a month, so.

>> Well, there's nothing going on globally that could possibly interrupt anything, so that's cool. >> Of course. >> Jeez, Louise. >> Man, you guys have a lot of variables here, and and there's a lot of And I'm not saying this cuz I don't want you to worry.

I just want you to be smart.

>> Probably about 70,000 dollars.

>> And will you need more than that to to

put the the correct down payment on said future home?

>> Probably a little. I mean, for like a 400,000 dollar house, you know, we're thinking something like three, four bedrooms. Um you know, I realistically like 20% right, about 80 grand.

Um so, we could save that up, I would think, but you know, 70k, but that's contingent upon selling our townhouse, of course, right now, so. >> Okay. Now, I do want to challenge you on this just just to the 20% rule isn't

what it once was. You know, yeah, you do 20% you can avoid PMI, but it doesn't necessarily move that payment down to 25% of your take home pay. So, make sure you jump on to a mortgage calculator at Ramsey Solutions and just run out those numbers cuz at this point you're putting down usually more than 20% in order to avoid PMI and to get that payment where you want because the rule of thumb is and this is for anybody listening, you want no more than 25% of your take home pay

tied up in your mortgage and your mortgage includes everything, taxes, insurance, HOA fees, right? And so, just just lock

that in, Lauren. All you just got to take take your time, please. Wait until the baby's born. Save up a bunch of money. Once the baby's born, you pay off the debt. Once you pay off the debt, you stack up 3 to 6 months of expenses and then and only then can you sell the house knowing that you also have money on top of that 70,000 to follow the 25% rule.

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

>> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me in for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, >> You're going to have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. Those are the two options. >> term life insurance can replace income, but have dads cover funeral expenses so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

>> All right, let's go to Kansas City, Missouri and talk to Melissa. Hey, Melissa, what's going on?

>> Hi, how are you all? >> Doing great. How are you?

>> I am doing good.

>> What's going on? >> Sorry, I'm a little nervous, so bear with me. >> Oh, you're good. >> Um, okay, so my husband and I have been married for almost 20 years, and we recently combined finances.

>> What what What led to that? What led to that combination?

>> Um, you know, we just never combined them.

We got married very young.

>> Mhm. >> We just never combined them, and after

we had my son about 11 years ago, I started asking, "Hey, can we combine them?" cuz it was just a struggle to see who was paying for what.

And about 18 months ago,

um, after he got out of the military and we settled in a house, he he said he agreed.

Um, and it's just it hasn't been what I thought it would be and it's very frustrating. Um I've

created budgets but he won't stick to a

budget. He won't help me create a budget. And I just feel like his spending is out of control and it

it stresses me out so much.

>> So >> So I >> The problem isn't your combined income.

The prob- problem is you have a husband that won't do life with you.

Right? Like the the the a flashing alarm signal is the overdrawn accounts. The real issue here is you've sat down with your husband and said, "Hey, can we do life together after being married for two decades?" And he has said through his actions, "No, thank you. I'm going to keep doing what I want to do." >> Yeah.

>> And so what's what's the what's the state of y'all's household finances?

>> W- I recently got a huge promotion. I doubled my pay almost. Um so I am

I am now earning more than he is >> How much? >> VA benefits. Um I'm earning over 90,000.

Um and our household income we make about 12,000 net in our account and it just every time I try to put some money away, I just feel like it flies out somewhere.

Um and he gets new hobbies all the time.

He has a dirt bike and a four-wheeler and I just don't know what to do to make him

understand that I'm just I want the best for our family so I don't want to be strapped down with debt.

>> The on- the only conversation I've seen be effective is the conversation beneath the money issues. And so if you if you have

harassed him for and and I'm being provocative on purpose, okay? If you've harassed him for 11 years, "We need to combine money. We need to combine money. We need to combine money." And he gets home from deployment, he gets out of the military, and says, "Fine." Um that was never the issue. The issue is you saying, "I don't feel safe when we owe people money. I'm scared about our financial future.

Will you help me feel less um unsafe?"

Right? Because that's really what's happening underneath all of this.

>> Mhm. >> And every time a uh a four-wheeler shows

up at the house, um your body goes, "Uh-oh.

What about college? What about our bills? What about What about What about?" Right?

>> Mhm. >> If you haven't had that conversation, that's the only one I've seen be successful.

>> I I feel like I have had that conversation. I try to put it on like, "This scares me. This is what I worry about." I just >> What does he say back? >> He'll say, "Okay, well, we'll we'll we'll sit down sometime and we'll go over it." And then when I get to that, "Hey, can Why don't we do it now?" or "Okay, can we schedule a time?" It it

There's always something being It just continues to be pushed back. We set a deadline. We were going to start in July of last year, and nothing happened. And then I asked him again at the new year.

I was like, "I really would love us to put a budget together cuz you didn't like the budget I put together myself." And he just he doesn't He thinks because we can make the minimum payment and we can still, you know, go out to eat, and

he thinks that it's fine, and I'm just like, "If we can buckle down for a little bit and get out of debt, we could live so much better. We could give more opportunities to our son." And I it just >> Yeah. >> I just can't get that from him.

>> I'm going to give you a framework, okay?

This is a like a last-ditch framework.

All right? You ready for this?

I want you to tell him that you need to have a big conversation with him. And he'll he might roll his eyes. He might be like, "Oh, here we go again." And but I want you to hold firm, okay?

And when you have this conversation, I want you to tell him this in this order.

This story I'm choosing to make up is or the story I'm making up is

you don't care that I can't breathe in our house.

The story I'm making up is you don't care about our financial future and that we're not safe.

The story I'm making up is debt doesn't bother you at all and it does bother me and you don't care.

And based on those stories that I'm making up, I feel scared, I feel alone in this marriage, whatever your feelings are.

And then give him an opportunity to respond.

And if you if you sit down and say, "You're not doing this and you're not doing that," then and you lead with you words, he's going to wall up and defend himself. We all do that.

But if you say, "Hey, I'm making up stuff about you. Am I right?" Then that's an invitation.

And if he walks away from that table, then you're going to have to I mean, and Jaden, correct me if I'm wrong here, you're going to have to begin taking ownership of your future, right? Because he doesn't seem to have interest in that.

>> Yeah. >> Right? That's that to me is the last-ditch framework that I that's how I teach people to handle conflict in their marriage. Just own the story I made up, own the feelings you have about it, and own what you're going to do next. And if it makes sense, give them an opportunity to respond.

>> Okay. >> Okay. I want to play devil's advocate on this for a minute because when he was deployed, what type of work does he what type of work did he do in the military?

>> You know, he actually never deployed. He only had some TDYs, but um

luckily, we never had to go through a deployment.

Um he was in for 17 years and got out

uh 2 and 1/2 years, 3 years ago.

>> And what type of work did he do?

>> Um, he worked on the jets.

On different jets. >> I I can tell you what I'm thinking and I

I think that this is all in the context also of what John is saying um and and counseling whatever that that looks like for you guys cuz I do think that you need counseling with a third party. Um, there's part of this where

as you're waiting for him to man up cuz

I think he needs to and I don't think you just need to sit there completely I can't move I can't do anything because I'm waiting on this guy to get his life together. >> got to take action. >> You've got to take action and I remember talking with a friend of mine who was dealing with not exactly the same but similar and what she would do is she found out the things that were most important to her husband and she was like, I'm going to make sure that that's on the I'm going to go ahead and create the budget.

I'm going to offer for him to see it. If he's not going to look at it, that's his choice but at least I've made it and I've said, here it is. I would love for you to look at this by X amount of dates because I'm going to move forward with what's on here. And what she would do is she would uh budget for the things that she knew he cared about.

So, maybe he loves going to the movies so she'd put a little bit on there for him to go to the movies. That way it's not anything that's going to make him walk in and be like, what are you doing? Da da da da da. So, that's what she did and she would say, hey, there's this amount of money left in margin.

I'm going to use that to pay off debt. And then when the time came, she'd pay off the debt and then she'd come back to him and say, hey, just like I said, I used that money and I paid off a $500 medical bill. So, she did her part.

She showed it to him. She made payments.

She let him know the things that she was paying off. And then over time, he started to see, wow, this this is really working. Now, caveat, they're not he's not on board yet.

They're She's going forward. She's going forward at a much slower pace because you go further faster together, right?

We all know that. But I don't want you to sit there on your hands simply because this guy is not manning up.

>> Yeah, it's That's a great way to say

become the person you want to be in your marriage. >> Yes. Start doing it.

>> Right. And if that if that ultimately means he's burning through savings and then yes, you may have to reset your money, but do it with a not a smile on your face, but don't do it out of anger.

Do it out of okay, cool. I've got to take care of our son. I have to take care of our house. I've got debts in my name and pull your credit report to make sure he hasn't put you on these jet skis and on these four-wheelers and all that kind of mess.

And >> Lead by example. >> That's exactly right. Be who you want to be in your marriage.

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Start EveryDollar for free today in the App Store or on Google Play. Let's go to Augusta and talk to Josh. What's up,

Josh?

>> Well, the cost of living among other among other things. >> You're exactly right. It's higher and higher and higher. How can we help, brother? >> Yes.

Yeah, so I've got kind of got a question looking for an outside opinion.

Um I'm trying to uh figure out a

a good way that's not going to cause any strife, excuse me, cause well, any major strife, uh to get my girlfriend on board with um

the baby steps and create a solid plan going forward.

>> I think you should um give her a budget a budget that you've already done and lecture her um and use a bunch of spreadsheets.

>> I think that's terrible advice.

>> Yeah, don't do that. Don't >> What is it? Does she have a bunch of debt and you're trying to convince her to pay her debt off? What what's the catalyst for this that you feel like you want to uh meddle in her finances?

>> Um so uh >> You see what I'm doing here, John? >> Why Yeah, why are you getting in her business, dude?

>> It's a reasonably good answer. Um

so for Christmas, my mother uh sent her

one of the uh one of your uh budget evaluation books. And she was really good about She religiously went right through it and did all the math and tried to figure out what she could do differently. Um and the conclusion that she came to

is that her expect her life expenses are too high, but she has no idea like even listening to um listening to the show, looking through um the baby steps, talking about it, she doesn't have a clear picture of how to get out of it. And there's a good reason. She's a single mother with a uh 5-year-old. >> Okay. And uh do you know how much debt she has?

>> Um a lot less than it was. She has about $4,000 in debt right now.

>> Which sounds like she's crushing. >> Yeah. Why isn't she calling in?

I'm still trying to get back to you. Like what's it to you? Are you thinking about proposing? Are you like tell me where you're caught up hung up in this.

>> Um so I am

um 26. I have I have I have like $2,000

in debt right now excluding my mortgage.

My house is almost paid off.

Um and the only reason that she's so far ahead was because she totaled her car a little while ago and the gap insurance paid off her car which she was upside down in. So, she got a lucky windfall, which is good.

Um but, since then, she hasn't made any forward progress at all.

Um >> Has she asked for your help, brother?

>> She has. >> Okay. >> Also, >> how did she ask for it?

>> Um well, first, she was in tears, not knowing what to do.

And I was doing my best to, you know, be

be patient and wait for her to be res- in a position to be receptive.

And then, I explained to her what I did and how it worked for me and why.

Um but, each time we talk about it, she always comes back to, "But, you make so much more money than I do." >> What do you make? >> is so much easier for you." Um I make about 120,000 a year. >> And what does she make? Do you know?

>> Uh about about 25.

>> Okay, yeah, that's going to be a problem. Um what kind of work does she do? >> She's a delivery driver for a car dealership, delivering parts and all that stuff. >> I can tell you what I think, and I don't know if you're going to like it.

But, this is something that is uh this is a litmus test in my mind.

If I were in your shoes, cuz I'm just telling you, in my shoes, it's bothering me that she didn't call in. Because if I want to see if somebody's a go-getter, and if I want to see if somebody is like about what they say they want to do, I want to see you making real efforts towards that. So, I would hope that she

would call in and say, "Here's where I'm at. Here's what I need help with. Here's what I'm trying to pay off." That would be my first If I were you, I'd That would be my question to her, which is, "I listen to the show. We're both on this thing. Why don't you just call in and ask? Or why don't you use Ask Ramsey and get and get the solution to the problem?" That'd be thing one. The next thing that I'd be checking for is I'd want to make sure that she's not an

And what I mean by that, I talk about this in the book. When you're an askhole, you're a person who asks questions over and over. You just ask and ask and ask and ask, but you never make any movement.

James Clear James Clear talks about that in Atomic Habits. You just get in get in get information, but you never actually, you know, put it into action. You don't You don't do anything. >> podcast, another cup of coffee. >> I'm worried that that's what she's doing. Because you've said, "Oh, I've talked to her. I've told her what to do." She's not doing it. So, that's something that you can either take that information and go, "This is a quality and I don't know how I feel about that quality in her." >> Yeah.

That's kind of the zone that I've been in um off and on for a little while.

>> Yeah. >> How long have you all been together?

>> Uh about 2 and 1/2 years.

>> Are you going to marry this person?

>> Um I'm never That's a hard question for me to answer because I have reservations about the state >> being involved in my relationship.

That's the only reason.

>> Oh, well, I just finished a 2-year study like a down the rabbit hole study on marriage and uh the data on formal legalized marriage versus cohabitation, it still wins out in a pretty significantly statistical way.

A statistically significant way. It still does. But, all I have to say is you do you, boo. Um I I I I I'm fond of saying behavior is a language.

And what her actions are telling me is she's not interested in

your advice. She's not interested in what you're bringing to the table when it comes to this stuff. And she's not interested in She read the book. She listens to the show.

She's not interested in going guns a blazing to get this stuff knocked out. And she has a very difficult living circumstance, no question about it. She doesn't make hardly any money. She's a single mom.

Like all She's got all the the variables against her. But again, this like the greatest thing I get to do in this in this job is listening to story after story after story of people in all sorts of situations rise up.

it But for you, it's you can't convince her.

You're living it. You've told her. She's asked and you've told her. Your mom has given her the book like At some point you have to open your hands up and let this conversation go and continue to live financially the way you want to live. >> Can I ask you this? Uh her 5-year-old, is he in kindergarten yet?

>> Uh she and yes.

>> She's in kindergarten. And And that I'm guessing this was the first year of kindergarten. I also I'm I'm just going to give her I'm going to throw her a life raft here and say it's possible that maybe before the the girl was in kindergarten, mom was used to working part-time and kind of juggling both things. So she probably wasn't making it, you know, really making what she could income wise. And this is the first

year that there's more freedom probably of schedule. And I'm wondering if And

you can ask her about this. Hey, now that, you know, baby girl is in in in in kindergarten all day, um maybe now is a great time to start looking at full-time jobs that you can work, you know, drop her at early care in the morning, work a full day, come back and pick, you know, little girl up from school. But we Now's a good time that you maybe could get your income up because, you know as well as I do, this is There's two parts to the equation. Expenses down or income up.

I think for you it's income up season. And you can drop that there and see what she does with it.

>> So I completely agree, um except she had

a huge um huge advantage as that um

her daughter's father his mother so her daughter's grandmother on her father's side owns a daycare. >> Oh, okay. >> part of their separation agreement was that he would pay for child care. >> Well, then there you go.

>> That was so that was never an issue. She would drop her off before work and then go work. >> Did she >> She's working 38 to 45 hours a week and

bringing home less than $500. Which today with regular living expenses is >> do it. >> Yeah, it's it's impossible. Yeah.

Um but again, I hate to say it this way, she has told you through her actions, this is not a problem that she wants your solutions for. And that can make you feel powerless and alone.

I get it.

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All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Kansas and talk to Grace. Hey Grace, what's going on?

>> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> You bet. Thanks for calling.

What's up? >> Yeah, um basically me and my husband we

um someone got in our bank account and we lost 8,000. And so we just have a few

questions of should we continue trying to pay off our house in 10 years, but we also need to buy a new car soon cuz this car is about to die. A baby's due in July and other appliances in the house are about to die and we need a new roof. >> Oh my gosh, that's a lot.

Everything's happening. All right, so let's let's back that thing up a little bit. Okay, so what happened in your bank account?

>> Someone got into it and took 8,000. So hopefully we'll maybe get it back, but we highly doubt that we'll get any back.

>> Why? Why is your bank not covering it as fraud?

>> Um I'm not really sure. They're disputing it, but we're just we don't know. So we won't know anything for 30 days. >> But how did somebody get in get in it?

>> My husband and might have given um someone who he thought was the bank his account.

So they What do you mean so it was a scam?

Mhm. But but I mean it if that happened, they should be they'll be on camera coming into the bank or there'll be a record of the transaction. Like everything is recorded.

>> and police reports and all of that.

We're just our we're counting it as a loss and maybe we'll get stuff back and maybe we won't, but we want to set a plan before.

>> Okay, I wouldn't I I count it as as a loss yet. Money just doesn't disappear out of your account.

>> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Uh on untraceably, right? And the bank

has all kinds of fraud protection and ATM card protection. Like there's a lot of things here, right? So I wouldn't just count it as a wash yet.

Um you you named a one thing that's for sure happening, you're having a kid soon.

>> Yes. >> And then you named a bunch of other potential future things that may or may not come to pass in 2 months or in 5 years.

And so I want to clear the deck of what you can control right now versus the feeling that it's all coming down because something in the future may happen. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> Is this your first baby?

>> No, it's my second. You know, they're 15 months apart. >> Okay, so you got a lot going on in

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. What's your financial situation?

>> Um it's actually pretty good. We have about 55,000 in savings. >> Okay. >> Um we only have a mortgage debt. Um I'm a stay-at-home mom.

Um and that's about it.

>> What does your husband make?

>> Um maybe around 50 a year. He's active duty military, so pretty consistent.

>> you get $50,000 in cash savings?

>> Um I have always been a saver, and so

when we both got married, we kind of combined everything, and that's what it was, so. And we didn't go to college, so we don't have any debt, and we were smart not to have credit card debt. >> Genius. That's fantastic. Yeah.

Incredible. So you're actually in pretty amazing shape right now.

>> Okay. >> If if he feels the need to go get a $78,000 or get a $50,000 Jeep and then jack it up and do like that would be really unwise.

>> Yeah. >> You have $50,000 of cushion.

>> in cash. Yeah.

>> Yeah, it's great. But I mean >> But >> You you could you could cash flow your

out of pocket for this baby and fix your appliances and get a 10 or $15,000 car that would be

used and great and still have a fully funded emergency fund.

>> So, is that like the main thing we just want to have at least 6 months in our savings? >> Yeah, I mean with you being a stay-at-home mom, I'd want 6 months.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. Tell us about the new roof.

>> Um it's just old and it's

like we've had people look at it and we probably need to redo it in about a year. >> Is it leaking?

>> Not yet. >> Okay, how much does it cost in your area?

>> Um I have no idea. My husband knows all that. >> Okay. So, I don't think that's anything that's on fire at this moment. I think the things on fire are the baby.

>> Yeah.

>> Is is there anything else that's like must happen now?

>> Well, we had a plan of paying our house off in 10 years. So, we use all our tax return >> Uh-huh. >> to like put towards our mortgage and I wasn't sure if we should just put that into our savings for that 8,000 that we lost. >> What's the balance on the mortgage?

>> Um 159,760,

sorry, thousand. >> So, I'm going to try to order this in order of importance for you. And I'm going to order it in importance in a way of like here's something you can be thinking about this year and here's something you can be thinking about and don't think about until next year, right? Until a year from now.

So, I just want to make sure I have everything on the list. You've got the baby coming in July.

You have a new roof situation.

Uh did I hear there's a new car needed?

>> Mhm. >> And why is that? I just want to make sure that it's actually a necessity.

>> Um Yeah, so my husband bought like a trash

truck Facebook market find and it just keeps breaking down.

And he keeps working on it, but it's going to need rewiring soon and that's like too big of a job for him to do and then it costs way too much to have a mechanic do. >> How much? >> And so um not what it's worth for the car.

So, the car's probably worth 2,000 and it was over that. >> Okay. Okay, and then we've got the baby. Okay, so I'm with John. I think the number one thing on the list is we're going to not

do much until this baby comes. The only thing I would do until this baby comes is I would take 10 of the 55,000

and I would get a a car in cash. I would do that because this $2,000 car you don't need to put any more money into that. Um after that, once the baby comes

and you've got $45,000 saved, you can start thinking about, okay, what would it look like, you know, everybody's home, medical bills paid, everything's good. What would it look like to fix our roof?

And I'd start charting that out and I'd start getting different offers and estimates of what that would cost.

And then once you have the number, since we don't know the numbers today, what could it be? 20,000? Maybe it's 15,000.

Um then we can start saving for that and we can look at our emergency fund and say, is there enough money there to do that?

If there is, we can use that. If there's not enough money, how much more do we need to save in order to make that happen? But your emergency fund is there. That That's exactly what it's there for. So, that's there. And then after that, you can start thinking about, okay, with the extra money in our budget, can we put regularly extra payments, extra half payments, extra quarter payments on our mortgage?

And that's that. >> Cuz you're also assuming he's only going to be making 50,000 bucks 2 years, 3 years, 5 years from now.

>> Which, yeah, he should still be getting raises every year. >> Exactly. Okay, now, can I ask you a personal question? >> Yeah. >> Have you been involved in the conversations with the bank over the missing eight grand?

>> Uh sort of. My husband knows more of it.

He's just been taking care of it and it's like I got so stressed out I was throwing up too much and and it didn't agree with me or and so I just kind of like left it. >> Okay. I I don't want to put anything out into the world that doesn't need to be there. But it's not passing my smell test.

>> Yeah. >> That $8,000 just suddenly went away.

In in my world, that is somebody gambled it away, that is somebody bought something. >> Uh so, I was involved with like the police reports and like I uh they got

into our bank account transferring money out with they actually got his whole card, too. So, they like took his card.

So, we have it all on videotape.

>> Okay. >> And so, >> So, there should be fraud protection on the card and that should be >> We're hoping so. We just haven't heard anything and so we're like >> I would scratch and claw and fight like hell. You're a pregnant mom with a toddler. You got one coming. I would

man, I would make this my full-time job to be the biggest $8,000 thorn in the side of that bank until they they made things right with you. >> I thought I heard you say he gave the account information to somebody he thought was the bank. I thought that's what I heard. Did I hear that wrong?

>> took the somebody got his card and got the information somehow. >> Oh, okay. >> Um yeah, if he if he's handed out his banking information, uh that money that money's gone. >> yeah, cuz in my question was, well, what was he giving his banking information to for $8,000? That's right. Or if he would did he give it 50 bucks and then they took 8,000. Yeah, there's a lot of questions. But I would scratch and claw

and fight for that money back and hopefully they'll bank will do the right thing and take care of you guys.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Delony joined by Jade Warshaw taking your calls on money, work, and your life. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Tammy.

What up, Tammy? How are we doing?

>> Hi, good. How are you guys? >> Doing outstanding. What's going on?

>> Good. I have a question. So, my husband and I started the Ramsey baby steps

about 3 years ago, but about 5 years before that we had already gotten into our home, so we had already signed for a 30-year mortgage.

So, we've completed steps. We have no debt except for our home the rest of what we have to pay off our mortgage, which is 160.

Um no other debt. We have our emergency fund saved up. Just trying to figure out how to prioritize paying it off. Um so,

we both work, but I'm considering cutting down my hours to almost nothing to possibly home school our children in the fall. So, that would take our income down by anywhere from like 3 to 4,000 a month, which would then So, before we were when we were through the baby steps like 1 through 3, we then were doubling our mortgage to kind of mimic a 15-year mortgage because we had already signed the 30-year. Um but now I don't feel like we're going to be able to do that with my cut in income. So, I don't know how we prioritize when we have extra margin.

Do we like prioritize our investing 15% or paying extra on the mortgage?

completely picking up and moving. And and like we could probably sell our home for about 600 to 630.

>> Okay. >> Um and we don't we kind of realized that we don't really need as much land as we have, so we could probably get in something comfortable with like a net zero of no mortgage.

>> Wow. >> With less land. >> Well, I think there's two problems.

I Yeah, I think there there might be two problems you're solving for and I'm not sure that one of them's is a problem. So, first off, yeah, if you tell me that you were paying your 30-year mortgage like a 15, and then you tell me, "And by the way, I'm not going to be working anymore, and it's going to cut our income in half, and now we're going to be at how much per month when you do this? 4,000 a month?" >> Well, no, so I bring home probably 3 to 4,000, but my husband brings home about 8 to 10.

>> Okay, so you'll be just to 8 to 10,000 a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I would not expect uh the margin to be the same because you're no longer bringing in an income. That being said, what you can look at it and say, "Okay, with the 8 to 10,000 a month, how much margin do we have to continue to do baby step four, which is investing 15% of your gross uh income into retirement?

that, after putting aside a little bit for kids' college, how much do we have to put on the mortgage?" And it's okay if it's a little bit less than it was before. It's okay if it's significantly less than it was before. You're going to keep chunking away at this, and that mortgage is going to go away.

>> Yeah. It's just a pointing on we went from possibly paying off in 5 to 7 years

to now looking to go to like now we can't pay it off for like 22 years.

>> Oh, I don't I don't think it's going to be 22 years.

Have you put it in a calculator?

>> Well, I mean, like if we got our 30-year mortgage 8 years ago.

>> But you've been paying on it like it was a 15. You paid it way down.

>> need to You need to put it in as it is now and see how long it would take with ever with whatever margin you have. And then if you look at that number and go, "We're not satisfied with that," then you have to ask yourself, "Okay, what's the solution? Um maybe while I homeschool, I do a little bit of part-time work. Maybe that's the solution." Um but I think you guys can solution for that.

Let's talk about John, the second problem that may not be a problem, which is we have a lot of land, maybe too much land, maybe we should move.

>> I mean, I don't feel like we have a problem in our current house. We just right now we have about 8 acres and we could be comfortable with like three or less and that could move us to a comfortable home and eliminate the whole mortgage issue. Like we like our home, but then we're also thinking that being mortgage free and have the extra margin to be able to do extra things >> I love that.

>> How how how many kids do you have?

>> We have two. >> Two. >> Five and eight. >> Five and eight, okay. Um can I throw another idea out here?

>> Sure. >> I want to I want to flip that your whole situation around, okay?

>> Mhm. >> You and your husband have worked your butts off for a long time to get into the exact situation you're in right now.

>> Mhm. >> Y'all have a more than half a million-dollar house and you have 160 grand left on it.

You don't owe anybody anything.

You are deciding, I might just want to stop working full-time and I want to

invest fully into my kids.

>> Right. >> Y'all have Y'all are winning all across the board.

I I off top of my head I forgot the psychological construct here, but

here's the basic nature of it. If Dave Ramsey called me texted me and said, "Hey, I'm going to give you a huge raise. Come by my office." And I went by his office.

And for him to say the words huge raise, I immediately thought he's going to give me $100,000.

And he gave me 25,000.

He said, "John, you've been doing great work. Here's 25 grand, my gift to you."

I would feel like he took 75 grand from

me. Because I made up a story in my head and my body started solving for that story.

I would have spent a hundred grand by the time I went up to his office on the sixth floor of this building.

Right? And so, here's what I want you to be careful of. You're grieving a reality that was never a reality. It was a story. We're going to pay this house off in five years.

It's not a tragedy that you and your husband chose a different value, which is homeschooling, over another value, which is we don't want to owe anybody any money. You just put one in front of the other for right now. That's a choice y'all made, and it's disappointing. We're going to grieve the fact that man, we thought we were going to have this thing knocked out in five years. Cool, we're not. We're going to spend extra time with our with our kids, and we're going to get this thing done in 10 years.

>> Mhm. >> Right? And so, I I don't want you to hang on to the story because it's it's it's casting a shadow over a pretty amazing situation that you and your husband have worked like crazy to set yourselves up in.

>> Right. >> Y'all are winning. >> Okay. >> You get what I'm saying? And not the Charlie Sheen way, but like y'all are for real winning, right?

>> Yeah. I guess like you said, I I've gone through a grieving process of losing that that thought and that concept.

>> And and let me let me put one more thing on the table.

And I and I've said this a million times on the show, I'll just keep saying it.

Whenever me or my wife, or both of us feel hemmed in by an either/or decision, I have to stop working and home school the kids, or I got to keep working and hate every day. Here's what I want y'all to do. I want you to throw on the table five or 10 random other ideas.

Sell the house. Um work quarter time

instead of part time. Have the kids stay in public schools for one more year or two more years, and then let's hyper drive this thing and get it paid off in insane fashion, and then we're done forever. Like I want y'all to do this exercise cuz it will remind you that y'all are free. Y'all are in the driver seat, and And not in an either/or like dire situation.

We got to turn right or we got to turn left and one of these is going to be the worst decision ever. It's just not the case.

You know what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> So, congratulations there. Jade, any any final words? >> No, I thought that was really really a good way to frame it up.

>> Cool. I'm proud of you guys. This is what it This is what I hate to say it like this, but this is what freedom looks like. You get to make choices and but you still

have to own the choices that you make.

>> Hey guys, health care is one of the biggest stress points in your budget.

It's confusing and most of the time it feels completely out of your control, but there is a better way to handle it.

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>> Cincinnati, Ohio, let's talk to Shawn.

Hey Shawn, what's up, man?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um I had an interesting question for you guys.

It's basically that we're in the middle of baby step two.

Um and for personal reasons, for religious reasons, we have to send our children to private school.

And so, we have two kids, we send them both to private school. It costs about 1,600 a month for that. And we were just kind of trying to figure out the the best way to to approach baby step two.

Like just because every year we're going to have to pay that. So, we didn't know, should we pay off all of our debts except that one and then, you know, try to stay ahead of it for the next year by paying it all at once? Is that monthly payment okay? At what at what point do we address it? Kind of just because we know it's always going to be there every year and and it's really important to us that that uh our children go to that school. >> Um how much debt do you have?

>> We have about 20, not including our house, we have about 28,000.

>> Okay, and what's the income?

>> So, combined it's about 78k

a year net.

>> Okay. What does it look like monthly?

What do you bring home?

>> I bring home about 2,300 every 2 weeks, so it's about >> Okay. >> Yeah, 4,600 a month. >> Okay. >> Uh I'm good. >> Um with that 4,600, what's your margin

that you're throwing at this 28,000 of debt?

>> Um so we're So what the debt is made up of is about 6K in the car.

And it's about 22

in student loans. And so that 4,600 a month was That was just mine. My wife brings home another, I don't know, 1,400 >> Okay. >> a month. Um and of that we're doing about about 365

um 365 on student loans and we're doing

about 400 on the car.

Um just because minimums on the student loans are are, you know, more or less that. Um the car minimum is about 230.

>> When you When you say 365 and 400, is that above the minimum payment or is that including >> Yes. >> Okay. >> On the car it's above It's above.

>> So you're putting 700 You have a a margin of $765 over and above minimum payments that you're putting towards your debt.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um I I I would It Tell me if this bothers you. It bothers me that it could foreseeably take you 2 years to pay off $28,000 of debt.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So then the question becomes what are we going to do about that?

>> Right. >> And I'm asking you, what are you going to do about that?

>> Um I mean we're just kind of, you know, taking it day by day. We're trying to >> But you can't Don't say day by day cuz I just rolled out the math for you. It bothers me that it would take you over 2

years to pay off $28,000 and you've said it bothers you, too, as it should. My real question to you on the line is what are you going to do about that?

>> I mean change it just more towards it.

>> Yeah. So there's two things you can do.

two There's a There's two There's I'll give you a hint cuz there's two factors to this. You can either decrease expenses or you can increase income or you can do both together. So, where do you think your greatest potential lies? Does it lie in lowering expenses or does it lie in increasing income?

>> Um right now probably decreasing expenses.

>> I would say that. Um but I I also know for you it felt like the 1600 was immovable.

>> Yeah, it it it kind of is.

>> Why is that? >> for personal reasons. It it's it's personal reasons I really prefer not to get into on the air, but just like assuming that that is the reality. I'm I'm curious how you guys would address it.

I know you guys would disagree with the premise that that is the reality, but if it were >> Well, if you tell me listen, it's your life. If you tell me this this is immovable and I'm not shaking on it, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to push you on it.

Are you um is your wife who makes 1600 a

month is she willing to go find a full-time job and double her income now that the kids are in school?

>> Right. >> Cuz you cuz like Right. You can go make more money especially for a sprint to get this thing knocked out.

>> Right. And so, I guess I'm I'm kind of asking knowing that that expense is going to be there every year, would it be so far ahead of it you're paying this thing in full at the start of every year in cash? >> afford to do that. That's even That's not a relevant question for you.

You can't afford that. >> Yeah, because then what happens then here then then the equation becomes this. It's cool to side hustle and sprint like John said when you have a short-term goal, but that's not a long-term That's not sustainable long-term. So, to your point if this 1600 is going to be part of your life forever, now you have to start looking at long-term measures and going, "Okay, my core income just does not sustain the life that I want." That means I have to start looking for ways to get my core income up.

So, that's either I switch my full-time job, I move to a less expensive area, I go to a place where there's jobs that pay higher. Do you see what I'm saying? So, we really have to decide and I I'm working on your framework, which is 1,600 is not movable. If that's the case, then you guys do need to look at solutions that are long-term solutions.

foreseeable future. >> And monthly, yeah, it's a bill. It's a water bill. It's a light bill. You don't need to save up 16 * 12 or 16 * 9 and

try to figure out how to come up with that many thousands of dollars. Like A, you can't do that. You don't make that kind of money. But it's you're not in debt to the school. Just same as you're not in debt to the cell phone company. >> Right, right. >> Right, it's a bill.

>> Okay. So, just treating it kind of like that, kind of like a really expensive water bill. >> It's a very, very expensive bill.

>> In terms of tackling it, I got you.

Okay. Thank you. >> Now, when you you might be closer than we think. So, let's see here. Your car payment your your minimum What's your minimum car payment?

>> 233. >> 233? And what's the minimum student loan payment?

>> Like 350.

>> Okay, so we're getting close.

Um if we add that up together, cuz you told me before the 765, that does not include minimums, right?

>> Right. So, so minimum is 233, we pay

about 400, and then the the minimum on those student loans is about 350, we pay like 365 just to put a little something on top, but >> I mean, that puts you at $1,348 that you have back in your budget once you pay this debt off. Which it's not 1,600, but

it's finding you a little bit of money to put towards that. So, that's the gap that you're going to have to close. But, just remembering when you do that, you're not going to have any other margin.

>> Right. For sure. >> So, you've got you've got your work cut out for you. What do you think you're going to do?

>> We're going to decrease decrease expenses. >> Can your wife not go earn more money?

>> Um not really, no. But, I'll I'll find

ways. I'll make it work.

>> That that just I'm just telling you, dude, we've been doing this a long time.

Those words, "I'll make it work," are famous last words. >> Will you make one deal with me, though?

>> Sure. >> Will you promise me you just won't go into debt to make this work? Because what I see is what I'm This is what I'm most worried about for you. Your your decision with your school, I'm not going to take you to task on that.

You're You know, you're going to value what you value. So, don't hear me say that like this is a terrible thing. But, what I'm afraid for you is if it gets tight, I would hate for you guys to start leaning on credit cards or anything like that to fill these gaps. So, just promise me no matter what you do, please don't let this be a recipe for you to say yes to debt or credit.

>> For sure. >> And and I'll just tell you, you your language is of a man who's trapped.

And trapped men never make great choices long term.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so, if that means you it means if your wife can't do anything else, if there's just no options about the schooling, then you might have to look in the mirror and say, "Okay, I'm going to have to go get another job.

I'm going to have to go make some more money. I'm going to have to work two or three jobs like millions and millions of men are doing all across the country to provide for their families." But, it it might take that kind of sacrifice and that kind of change. But, man, I get real nervous anytime I hear a man who sounds trapped because that's when, like you say, Jade, that's when they start making gambles, they start making bets, they start day trading, they start crypto, they just start doing stuff that they normally wouldn't do, and man, they find themselves in a big, big mess.

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>> Buying or selling your home is a huge deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting nonsensical data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Last month, the average 15-year fixed mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56, but at least it's still below 6%. If you're financially ready, a small rate increase should not hold you back from buying a home, especially since waiting could mean facing higher home prices as the busy season ramps up. Medium home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical for the spring market.

With more homes available and more buyers entering the market, it's a great time to buy or sell. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on the tubes. Let's go out to Los Angeles, California A, and talk to John.

up, John?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> We're doing great, brother. >> the call. >> Thanks. You thanks for calling. What's up? >> No, thanks. Um I'm just looking for some advice. So, I've got a unique situation.

My grandmother passed away a few years ago. Um my my mom my dad's mother. He's got a

second cousin that kind of contested her will. Um it took about 2 years. He spent

about $60,000 of his own money. We don't know how much is in her accounts. And in the end, he's now asking She circumvented him cuz they don't have a great relationship. So, in the end, the money's going to end up going to me.

And I have a great relationship with my mom. They're still married. But, you know, he's telling her to tell me that once I get my money that I owe him the $60,000.

So, I bring this up because when it came

time for me to go get my master's degree, I was looking at going to the East Coast. He convinced me to stay on the West Coast. He said I'll pay for your student loans. He didn't. I paid off the 150k. So, like with all this kind of going on and him kind of trying to use my mom to guilt me into paying him back, like am I obligated to pay him the $60,000 or should I just wipe it out considering he never came through with paying for my college? >> How old are you?

>> I'm 40. >> 40.

How much money are we talking here?

>> I don't know. That's the thing. It could be a dollar, it could be $300,000. I'm assuming since one of the second cousins tried to contest the will at a decent amount of money, probably 3 to 500 grand. >> Okay. When's the last time

and I'm kind of poking at you, but just know like if we were sitting at a table, I'd be smiling when I'm saying this, okay? >> Yeah. >> Um when's the last time you called your dad and had a grown man conversation?

>> Oof. >> Because here's the deal. >> Yeah. >> This is how kids work. Hey, tell Susie that I've got a crush on Sutton, but don't tell her that like and then Sutton tells Susie, well, John, I don't like you see what I'm saying? Y'all are playing telephone through your poor mom. Y'all are grown men.

>> Yeah. No, I know. We We haven't spoken in 3 years. He got into a fight with my wife and obviously I chose my wife's side. >> Yeah, if he was to be a grown man and call his son and say, hey, I fought this, it's this much money, here's what I spent on it.

It feels right to me that you would come back. And then you said, well, let's have a deeper conversation. You told me you'd pay for this and then you walked away and I got stuck with 150. Have a grown-up conversation.

>> Okay. >> But I'm not going to play telephone with my dad. I would tell my mom, Mom, I don't want to hear any more of the pass-through. If dad wants to talk to me about money, he can call me like a grown-up.

And for you, brother, you did the thing.

You paid it off.

>> Yeah. >> Every minute you wake up and choose to think about that and let me ask you this, how many imaginary conversations have you had with your dad over that student loan?

>> Too many. >> Exactly. And you always win them. You get this mic drop moment. He's like, "You're right, son. I love you." And he writes you a hundred fifty None of that's ever going to happen, ever.

>> Yeah. >> And so every minute you choose to engage in that is a minute uh I mean is is a choice to not have the energy that you could spend on your wife, on your kids, on your on the life you're living right now.

You did the noble right thing. You had a problem with your money. Somebody didn't show up for you and you paid it off. I'm proud of you for that, dude.

>> Thank you. >> That's what men do. They step up and solve a problem. Um I would tell my mom, "Hey Mom, I I don't want to have any more pass-through conversations. If Dad wants to talk about money, he can call me." >> Okay. >> And free her from that and she can tell him free yourself from that. Um and then

when it gets to that conversation, man, I I I would just have a lot more questions than I could I could answer on you right now. I If he was choosing to go to war with the second cousin cuz he's got 70 years of disdain for a second cousin or he thought he was in this will and suddenly he didn't find himself in it. Like, who knows, man? Right?

Who knows how much he actually spent on these bills? He's already proven to you he's not trustworthy.

>> Okay. I like that. >> Now, if your dad had called you three years ago and said, "Second cousin showed up. I'm going to war for this thing.

It's going to be expensive. Um I'm going to need an agreement from you that I'm going to spend some money on this thing, but we're going to win this thing together." I could have seen you going, "Well, yeah, dude. Let's do that." Cuz it's the right thing to do. He didn't do that, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, I understand.

>> What do you think, Jade? >> I I think that you couldn't have said it better. And I don't think there's much else to say about this. And I I almost don't want to continue it on because you've already run through this so many times in your brain. I just want to slam the gavel and go, "That's it. It's over.

You're going to get your inheritance and that's that on that." >> Okay. No, I like that. I didn't think about it from that perspective, either.

>> The one thing I'll I'll tell you, and I

I all of us on this show get grief for this. Um when I tell somebody who's got a 3.1%

mortgage that they got right after COVID and they they think they're winning life by hanging on to it, right?

I always tell folks, "Dude, my financial picture, I'm not solving for max ROI. I

am simply using money to solve for peace in my life." Right? And so, I use that frame on almost every single thing I do.

And so, in this case, if you get a check for 500,000 bucks and 60 grand gets this person out of your life forever and you choose to not repay a debt cuz you don't have one. But, if you choose to write a check for a soul tax for you to end this thing you're not starving. You're left with 440 grand, right? That can be a choice you choose to make.

Um I can guarantee you, if you do write that check, he's going to come knocking for more. >> going to say, that's not going to be the end of it.

>> That's been the story of my life. >> There you go. And so, if this has been in in you said it you just said it perfectly. Um He's been doing this to you your whole life, hasn't he?

>> Yeah. Yeah, there have been multiple times where he's hit me up for money, paid me back, hit me up for money, paid me back, and then >> And that's why you need to just put this to rest cuz it's just drain it's just a drain. >> Yeah, I amend my answer. No, I wouldn't give him any money.

If he calls you and flies down and y'all have a grown-up over like grown-up adult male conversation at a diner where y'all shake hands, then so be it. Y'all can come up with a deal there.

>> Got it. Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate it. >> brother. Take care, man. Thanks for being a person of of high integrity and wanting to get this thing right. That's That's pretty noble of you, brother.

Let's go out to Dallas and talk to Victoria. What's up, Victoria?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Oh, I'm right up against the clock, so get right to your question here.

>> Okay. Okay, so recently got a good paying job, um but I started getting into debt right afterward. I'm getting married, I moved, um but my big question is I have about a little about $18,000 in debt, but I'm getting a good bonus at the end of the year. Do I continue with the debt snowball, or do I kind of live normally and then just pay it off at the end of the year?

>> Okay. >> Or or I I think you need the muscle.

I think you need the like 9 months of

grinding. >> True that. That's great for the soul.

It's great for the confidence. >> the way, Jade and I would not have a job if everybody's bonus always came through at the end of the year like they were promised.

>> That's true. Yeah, I hear you. >> I wouldn't hold my breath for nothing.

This This show is made up of people who the government's going to pay off everything and they're going to forgive and the boss said I'm going to get a and it doesn't work out. Keep doing the same thing you're doing. Pay it off month by month. Practice that muscle, and if you get a bonus check at the end of the year, it's just that, a bonus.

The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YRefi.

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>> Okie dockey, today's question comes from Alexandra in Oregon. She says, "My fiance and I just postponed our wedding

for the third time because he is at risk of losing his house again.

This is due to him being convict Hold on, I got to get myself together.

This is due to him being convinced the business that he started 5 years ago is going to be a success, but it has yet to turn a profit. I've asked him to get a full-time job so we can get married, but he refuses to give up his dream of being an entrepreneur. I'm tired of my life being on hold while he chases success.

Should I give him more time or move on?"

I think you better cut it loose. I think it's time to cut it loose.

I I mean, here's the thing.

I'm looking at this and you're writing

into a radio show because you're you've had it. If you take the time to email a radio show, you've had it. >> That level of desperation.

>> He's postponed the wedding three times.

Now, and he's almost lost his house.

Like there's no security there. Now, here's what I will say.

Um Being an entrepreneur, if you are if you are truly of the entrepreneurial spirit,

you are not going to everything is not going to be awesome and everything is not going to be a success. There's going to be ideas that suck and then there's going to be ideas that are pretty good and then there's going to be ideas that like yeah, that one was it, right? So,

there is part of that where there's a roller coaster to ride, but what I would hope he would be doing is in the meantime working some sort of stable job while he's putting his hand in all those other different things. That's the only that's that's the best that you can ask for. >> is not a pass on being an idiot.

>> Yeah. >> Right? And or not it's not a pass on not

believing the rules of math apply to you. >> That's right. >> Right? Or or not being a person of character and integrity. So, as as the great um Dave Ramsey once said, see you

later, Felicia. That's what I would say.

Yeah.

This one's Yeah, here's the thing, Alexandra, and this isn't going to give you any more peace.

He's already left you.

He is married to this fantasy

and he's giving it his time. He's about to give it his home. He's giving it his energy and he's already >> left. >> You keep hanging on and cuz you love him and I admire that about you.

But he has moved on.

And so, I think it's time for you to move on, too. That's our two cents, but we're a couple of radio people who have never met you before. So, you do what you want to do. I would be willing to bet um 100 bucks you're going to have a fourth wedding on the books within two months. What do you think, Jade? >> Yeah, you're probably Well, I don't know. If I could hear her voice on the phone, I'd have a better >> go. That's probably true. That's probably true. >> gauge. I think it's time, clearly.

Anybody who's He's continuing to value whatever it is that he's doing at a fail to being able to have success with you over here on the other side. >> I want I want someone who's going to marry my daughter to put the energy and

obsession that he has in his business into my daughter. >> Man, yes. >> That's what I want. >> Mhm. >> You want me to Like we need to get a house? Done. You I need to work three jobs to make something happen? Done. Like we're going to do that. >> Wait, so what you're touching on is something that this This is about to be a whole discussion.

Because it's so true. This is for all of us, not just uh old boy who started at his business 5 years ago and wasn't successful. But that's all of us. If you look up and you're putting more intentionality and time and effort into anything that's

not your family, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. Yeah.

>> And And here I think people take that the wrong way.

Like I've been working on a new book project for 2 years. You just had a book come out. >> Yeah. >> My wife and I, like 8 months ago, we

went on like what I call like a final date. Like we know this is coming and we've been on dates since then. But like we're about to hit >> wild season. My wife's an author. She wrote in this season. We got two young kids. Like we've been in it.

>> Mhm. >> But the the anchor point is all of this

circles back, not so Dad can get famous, not so I can get just another book on the shelf, but for us and for people in

the our local community, right? People like And so but it's anchor starts there. >> Mhm. >> And so there are seasons that are way out of whack and way out of balance and you and I are on the road and we're doing like >> do sprints.

>> But it all anchors back to her and I sat across the table and said, "All right, all hands in. We're going about to have this season coming up and here's what our life is going to look like on the backside of this thing, right? But, man, you are married to somebody who is having an affair with their job, or actually you're the affair. Their love is their job. Their love is their golf game. Their love is their whatever, their phone.

Man. >> It's a problem. Yeah, cuz not you trying to think so strategically about how you're going to get your next raise and how you're going to navigate these relationships, and you're not being that intentional with how you navigate your relationships at home. You're not You know, you're like you said, you're focused on your golf game and improving your swing, you know, improving your your mile time, all those things, but you don't put the same thought into your money.

You don't put the same thoughts into your relationships. I'm just saying. First things first. You got to put the first things first, is all I'm saying.

>> If if Here's what I want people listening to do. Go home today. Remember like if you went to college, you went to you were in high school, you got a syllabus. Here's all the books you got to read this semester.

Here's when the assignments are due. Here's the homework schedule.

I want you to ask your spouse for a syllabus of them.

What are five books they love? What are five movies they love? What are five podcasts they're listening to these days? What are five big topics they have?

And I want you to spend a couple of months knowing your spouse, learning them again, studying them, talking to them, going to dinner with them and saying, "All right, I'm not going to try to debate you. I just want to hear what you think about this What's going on overseas? What do you think about what's going on in politics? I'm not going to I'm not going to fight at all.

"I think it was terrible. Tell me about what you liked about it." >> Yeah. >> Um but get to know each other again. And that level of intentionality.

Man, if I can put that much into the next bass rod I'm going to get or my next hunting spot, and I won't give that to my wife, what kind of husband does that make me, right? >> Right. And I've been there for years, right? >> Right.

Cuz at work, you'll talk to Chad and act like what he's saying is the most exciting thing ever, just so that you look good in front of Chad.

Listen, I've got this before. >> I should NOT KNOW JADE I I'm I'm getting convicted in real time. I should not know the Seymour Duncan P90s that I just put in my Les Paul. I should not know how that all works and not know how my wife likes her coffee. >> It's so important. I'm telling you. Yes.

>> That's more important than this. I should have that stuff covered in my spirit. I should be paying more attention making sure she's got coffee in the morning making sure hey I'm going to run to the store. I'm going to fill her car up with gas on Sunday night knowing instead of getting on money being like oh she didn't put I'm going to do that. >> Yes. >> I should do that stuff. You know why? Cuz I do it for my guitars. I do it for

my hunting gear. >> all done it. >> Man. >> We've all done it. We've all done it.

>> So to reiterate Alexandra see you later

Felicia. Um do we have to Now we talked too long Jade.

>> I'm still on it. You you closed you wrapped it UP TOO SOON.

FIRST things first. You know what? Hit me with one of those social questions Sean. >> where the You know what I already already moved them off. >> Really? I've got one. I've got one from Tik Tok. Okay.

>> You're my favorite place to hang.

>> Oh this is great. Okay. >> Did you know if somebody came to me and said hey log into Tik Tok or I'm going to set you on fire? >> You'd be on fire right now. Bones.

>> get it going. Get it going. I don't know how to log in. All right go for it.

>> Okay Michael from Tik Tok says let's see we are planning on selling our current home and purchasing a new home within the next few months. Does it make sense to keep attacking the mortgage or should we save money more money towards the next down payment? Um you really could

do either or. I probably would save the

money out in cash >> just in case you don't get from your house what you were expecting to get possibly. >> Yeah and it depends on how much cash you already have for your down payment for your next house. If you're sitting on a couple hundred thousand dollars then yeah keep grinding away at it. But um I if I knew I was going to put my house on the market in two or three months >> It's months, >> Yeah I I would I would pay minimums and keep the cash.

>> cash. I would do the same thing. >> I would do. Hey, thanks for being with us.

We're going to be back for another hour soon. Right here on the Ramsey Show. Oh, we're still going.

>> Joe, I thought you were giving me the Joe is our fearless >> I'm not another social question here.

>> audio engineer.

Listen, this is why they don't let me drive, ladies and gentlemen. Sometimes I run into the median. >> I'm here for you. >> Love you guys. We'll be back soon.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Delony joined by Jade Warshaw. Let's go out to Austin, Texas, the 512, and talk

to Mike McMike. What's up, Mike?

>> How's it going, guys? >> Doing all right, brother. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um, a bit of an odd situation.

Um, I received a promotion about 2 weeks ago from my work.

>> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Um, although they do a truck allowance program versus

a company truck program.

And so, after looking into it, um, and

looking at their stipulations of what that vehicle needs to be, um, I would have to buy something and finance it. And I really don't want to do that. Me and my wife just got out of um, just got 100% debt free. Um, and so, just don't know how you guys would handle this situation. >> Is the stipulation reimbursement only or

do you have to have a certain truck at a certain mileage and year and then they'll they'll give you a stipend?

>> Certain truck of a certain mileage and a certain year and then I get a monthly stipend. >> Okay. Um

You're going to hate my answer, but if if I'm in your exact shoes, I would probably begin either A, I'd make the decision I'm going to wave the stipend and I know that's free money, but my my freedom is worth more than that or I

would save up the money on my own and buy buy the truck and then take the stipend. >> Yeah, what why can't you be on a elongated timeline? Does it Do you have to make this decision immediately is what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, so they gave me a 30-day 30-day timeframe to make that decision.

Um just because I explained to my

district supervisor that you know, I don't want to go out and finance a truck and and in order to to be in. So I would just use the current truck I have although my current truck that I have now won't pull the big trailers and it's only a half-ton versus it needing to be a 1-ton to get the monthly stipend.

>> So can you even perform the job with your current truck or you cannot?

>> Um short answer, no.

>> What's um What does it cost to get a used vehicle?

>> It I mean the used that's the problem.

It I mean they're asking you to buy an $80,000 truck, right? >> And I'm I'm I'm looking I'm looking used, but I mean even a used vehicle is

a used truck that would work under 100,000 miles and not older than 5 years old. I mean I'm looking at, you know, 40-50,000 truck.

>> a minute. Not Not to get the truck allowance to actually be able to pull what you need to pull like to act There's two searches. There's one search that gets you the allowance. The other search is just a vehicle that is able to like physically do what the vehicle has to do, right?

>> Um, yes. >> Okay. So, my guess is if you did a search on getting a vehicle that just does what it needs to do, that's going to be cheaper than a vehicle that would get you the allowance.

>> Um, correct.

>> Okay. >> here's my But then I weigh that stipend.

>> You you do. How much is the stipend?

>> Uh, 2,500.

>> A month? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that's a that's a significant chunk of change.

>> Yes, sir. >> But I I want you to consider what they're doing.

They are asking They're putting that much money on the table um, for a couple of things. A, they want

fancy-looking trucks to show up to to job sites.

They want to look like they are are this is Look at what our guys are driving, right?

But they want you, the employee, to carry 100% of the risk because they can

be out of pocket two months, they can be out of pocket five grand, you're sitting on a 50 or 60 thousand dollar note, and then they decide to go a different direction.

And you're stuck. You see what I'm saying? >> Yeah, what happens if you leave the job or what happens if you're fired? What happens to the value of the truck at that point? The stipend stops, right?

>> Yeah, and then in that certain point, I would just I would just sell the vehicle.

>> Right, that you might be upside down on or that has lost value or that, right?

So, the onus becomes on you for all of this. >> There's a reason they're paying this much money. Nobody No business is just

like, you know what? Let's just throw some money at some guys just for fun.

They've done the They've done the actuarial work here to say, let's not

have our own fleet and let's not manage our own fleet. Let's transfer all of that depreciation, all of the risk onto our employees, and we'll just write them a check for it. >> Yeah, that's not good.

They want you to go buy them.

And nobody making the money that they're paying you can actually afford this, so they're going to pay you to make a payment. Um that to me I I just don't

like that arrangement. It makes me uncomfortable because it puts me and my family on the block and they don't have any skin in this game.

But, if you are going to do it, man, get the minimum threshold you can get through the door with.

>> And that's what I was looking at and would that not matter based on if if I

mean, outside of our emer- our our emergency fund, I have a sizable amount of money saved up and if I throw that at it, I won't be upside down.

That's kind of the route I was I was thinking of going on this and I mean,

they've been This company's been around since the '60s and and everybody in this situation has had good luck with it and the only reason they got rid of fleet vehicles is guys were just just weren't taking care of it and it was costing them a lot more money and now that guys are using their personal trucks, they're taking care of them and they're lasting a lot longer. >> I mean, I I I get their business I I I get their business deal. I mean, what they're doing makes sense to me. I get it.

I'm on your team.

>> Right. >> And so, I it just feels like a it feels like a big liability to be hanging on to.

But, yeah, you I mean, you do you. How much cash do you have saved?

>> Uh about 28,000.

>> Okay. Um and how much in your emergency fund?

>> Uh we've got about 22,000 right now.

>> Okay.

Is there a possibility you could dwindle that sucker down to where it's just a few months and you go in and get pretty dang close to paying for this thing in cash?

>> Um, yeah.

>> And use that 2,500 bucks Just be militant about paying be militant about taking that $2,500 stipend plus any extra cash you'll have and refilling every every cash bucket you got.

>> Yes. And that's kind of what would be the plan. I mean I if I got to make double or triple payments a month to get it paid off, you know, in in in 6 months, that would 100% be the idea. I

mean the last thing I want is debt. We just spent 2 years trying to get out of it. >> Yeah, totally. I mean >> I just I'm trying to be smart about this, but also this is something I've been working for for the last 10 years and I'd really hate to give it up because I you know, I I don't want to

go and buy a truck.

>> I get that, but at some point anybody who says they have a principle, that principle's always going to get checked.

>> Right. >> Right. And so it it's always going to get checked. I If if I was put in your situation and I didn't have another option, yada yada yada, I would probably Jay, tell me if I'm wrong, I would dwindle my cash down to what I could manage and I'd keep as a cushion in the bank um, and then I would be a lunatic about getting that sucker refilled.

>> I'd really um, I'd really push for a different I'd try to get creative. I'd sit down with chat GPT tonight and roll a bunch of different scenarios.

Really get creative and come to them with a lot of solutions. That shows that you care and you want to solve the problem.

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

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>> Let's roll out to Grand Rapids, Michigan and talk to Sky. What up, Sky? How we doing?

>> Hey.

>> How can we help?

>> Hi. So, I'm about to graduate college and I have a full-time job lined up, but I'm trying to decide whether or not I should live at home and commute the hour and a half both ways each day for a while to kind of help pay off debt or if I should look for an apartment, you know, within like a 10-minute drive.

>> A hour and a half each way?

>> Yeah, I'm from a really rural area, so like >> So, we're saying 3 hours a day?

3 hours a day? >> How much debt Oh, hold on. How much debt do you got? >> Never. >> Um I'm I'm going to graduate with about 15,000 in loans, so it's not like terrible. >> No, get an If you told me you were going to be 50 or 100 grand, I might tell you 3 hours a day is the price you pay for a year, but man, 15 grand, you'll have that knocked out in no time, right?

>> Okay, I mean, yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking, but I just didn't know if it was worth it to drive for a while to just kind of get it paid off as soon as possible. >> Well, >> think about this, 3 hours * 5 is 15 hours. You could probably uh >> I think it's going to make you hate the work that you do. >> It's going to make you hate your life.

>> It's just a bad You're You're graduating, you're entering into your field.

>> Okay. >> I think have you run it out and said, "Okay, if I do this, how long will it take me?"

>> Um not really cuz it's not I'm not going to I guess not great paying, but >> What's the pay for the job? >> job. So, it's 1945 an hour before taxes,

full-time. Um it is in the events industry, so there will probably be some overtime associated with that.

>> You would have to make a commitment to yourself. I'm going to work Here's Let's Let's change it and say it this way. The next 2 years of your life should be pretty tough.

>> Okay. >> Pretty miserable. You can share that You can have that misery in the car driving back and forth to to your mom and dad's house, still having to abide by their curfew and not being able to date anyone cuz y'all live out in on a farm, or

it could be pretty miserable, pretty tough, grinding, but you're taking every possible job in

your industry and in your space and getting to know people and shake hands and hang out with people your age and getting as much exposure as you possibly can cuz you're going to get this debt paid off in 12 months or less. And then you're going to spend the next year grinding and getting an emergency fund.

>> Right. >> So, if you think of it that way, you're going to you're going to spend this time working and you're going to spend this time like grinding. I would rather do that and look up and be 24, 25 years old, have

put two or three long hour days this two

or three years worth of long hour days towards the job industry I want to be a part of than driving back and forth to my parents' house. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes, 100% because at least

if you move closer to work, when you're done with work, you can easily get to your next job cuz it's right there in town. >> Yeah. Oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah. >> And you can do more actual work cuz you're in town. So, it's like, oh, okay, I get off my job here and now I'm going to head over to the the place where I bartend or I'm going to head over to, you know, where I work at NikeTown or whatever it is that you do on the side.

Whereas if you're out in the boonies, you've wasted 3 hours a day and you can't get it back and there's nothing else out there to do. >> Yeah. >> That's true. >> Except shoot rabbits. What do you guys do out there?

>> Something like that. >> Something like something like that. Yeah, so that that's what that's what we would do. Congratulations on graduating and get that debt paid off ASAP. And

just just know if you're 21 and you're graduating 2 years is not enough. The next 5, 7, 8

years of your life just know I'm going to get after it.

Jade, the life I live right now is based on I was pretty unhealthy, but working like a mad person in my 20s.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Saying yes to every opportunity, every speaking engagement, every degree opportunity, every what All of those skills I learned along the way give me the life I have now. >> The 20s are for scratching and clawing.

>> For everything. >> is that is the definition of that decade

is you scratch, you claw, you're tired,

you work some more, you fail a little bit, you work some more. Like that is the 20s. Like >> All right. All right. Arthur Brooks, the great Arthur Brooks. He He said this recently, our culture has flipped and we so over index for our 20s and 30s and we

under index for our 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, and 90s. And the fun I thought I would be having in my 20s, dude, now that I can have that kind of fun in my 40s. >> got some money? >> money.

I got time. I got my own car and it starts every time I turn it on, right? LIKE >> I KNOW. I KNOW.

>> I HAVE an amazing wife. Like it like it I never would have dreamed it was this awesome. >> I I couldn't agree more. I literally had this conversation with Sam Warshauer.

I was like, man, everybody thinks like 20s are like the glory years or like back when I was younger. Like No.

And I'm like, no. In your 20s, first off, half of us aren't even married yet.

So we're out here just trying to survive that whole situation. And then you got no money. You don't have any respect on your name in your career. Like it's just when I look back on it, I go, actually the 20s are kind of trash.

>> 40s, I'm going to the same shows in the same mosh pits. I'm just able to uh >> You can afford the good tickets. >> t-shirt, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't have to sneak onto the floor. I can pay for the floor seats now. >> I mean, that truer words have never been spoken and it's so true. Just know it's necessary. Like 20s are building years and it's so necessary to just let it like let the build begin. >> Grind it. Grind it. Grind it. >> Embrace it for what it is. >> All right. Let's go out to Brandon in Pittsburgh.

Let's see here. Where are we at? Uh right here. Brandon, what's up?

>> Hi. Um so I I have kind of a big big thing.

>> Let it rip.

>> All right. So I'm I'm a truck driver. I make about 3,200 bi-weekly. Uh my wife works for the a store. She's a a manager there. She gets about 1,700 bi-weekly.

Um I have a mortgage payment about 1,200 bucks per month and a pickup truck payment for 800 a month. Um my wife covers utilities. She has her own car payment for 700 a month. I um owe about 35,000 for my car. She owes 41,000. I

have 120,000 on the house and a credit card debt of uh $3,600 and a wedding

loan that's $15,000 and I'm slowly paying off my credit card debt and I'd like to start paying off the wedding loan faster, too, and building savings.

So, now my question is I have no clue how to build wealth. I am numerically illiterate, don't know where to start.

>> Came to the right place, brother. >> You did. >> Perfect. >> And you had your numbers listed down and ready. I couldn't even keep up writing it all fast enough. So, >> All I heard was you got $1,500 in car payments between you and your wife. >> Yeah, that's a lot. >> Yes, it's a lot. And for her yeah, I I

commute back and forth to work. Um I >> You can do that on a go on a GoPed, dude. Like and not really, but you know what I mean? You don't need a >> Those are expensive.

Even used car payments Like my first car when I was in high school was $1,700. It's like 6,000 now, which I could go ahead and trade in my truck for one, but >> Yes, we're doing that. >> I don't really need a truck, either. >> Let me get back Let me get back to the the question at hand cuz we don't have a lot of time.

Um the the the crux of your question first because this is going to inform everything I say next. You asked, "I don't I don't know the first thing about building wealth." And the first thing about building wealth is you've got to get control of your income. Dave Ramsey would say your biggest wealth-building tool is your income. And you've got a decent one. I think combined you guys are at like 9,200 a month a month. Is that about right?

>> About right, yep. >> Okay, that's a decent income. The problem is it's going out the door. You said it yourself, to debt payments every single month, whether it be the pickup truck, the car, the the the the wedding loan, the credit cards.

So, the way we get our our income back in our hands and back in our control is we have to have to have to pay off the debt. And that's the part that nobody likes to do. Over here we teach a series of seven baby steps and the second baby step, baby step two, is the one that's about paying off debt and everybody hates it because it's it requires, you know, discipline, it takes a while, all of that.

Before we get off the line, we're going to send you every dollar, we're going to send you the book The Total Money Makeover, and we're going to set you up with Financial Peace University. All of those things walk you through our seven baby steps system. It's a plan for your life and it has to do with you taking these debts, lining them up smallest to largest, paying minimum payments on all of them, but throwing all of your extra money every single month at that smallest debt. That's the main part, that's the first thing that you really have to get your head around.

But all the resources that we sent you are going to teach you how to budget so that you can do that. It's going to teach you how to say no to debt because we don't do debt anymore. All of this is going to set you up for that win, my brother. I can't wait.

Hang on the line, we'll get you hooked up.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

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>> Let's go out to New York and talk to

April.

What line is April on? April is on line four. What's up, April?

>> Hi.

Um I'm 65 Well, I'll be 65 years old this year and I didn't start working until I was about 63.

Um I'm wondering, will I be able to catch up to be able to retire? And what

things can I do to to build retirement money faster? >> Well, thanks for calling. Tell me about your life.

>> Um well, I I work 40-hour week.

Um I make about a little over $22 an hour.

>> Yeah. >> Um I'm debt-free. I own everything, my

home, my vehicles. >> Very cool. >> cash for everything. >> Why did you start working at 63?

>> Well, I've been a housewife pretty much since I was 16 years old and um

through series of marriages and divorces, I haven't been

the last husband I wasn't with long enough to be able to get any part of his retirement. So, being divorced, I had to figure it out on my own.

>> Okay. >> So, >> I I've got about 85 to 85,000

that I have saved up over the course of time, and uh most of that, I'd say, um about 53,000

is in savings.

I'm not sure if I should just be leaving it in my savings, or if I should be

trying to put it somewhere. I know I get these Social Security statements every so many months a year.

>> Mhm. >> And I'm looking at, you know, maybe $600 a month if I'm lucky.

>> Right. Okay.

Um So, of the 85,000, you said some of it's separated. Where's the other portion of it? >> The rest of it's in the checking account. >> Okay. So, >> 53 alone in the savings.

>> What I would do is I'd probably put 6

months of expenses in a high-yield savings account. Could we say maybe 20, 25,000, and put that in a high-yield savings?

>> And when you uh say high-yield savings, what does that exactly mean?

>> It's a It's a It's a form of a savings account that has a slightly higher compounding interest rate. Just a a slightly higher interest rate. That's it. >> Okay. Cuz my my bank is 5%. I'm not sure

if that's >> Oh, 5% is good. >> you get 5%, you're fine. Don't do a somersault and leave your money there. >> Yeah, don't move it. >> But I would I would move the other 50,000, and I

would invest that.

>> Okay. >> And I would get with a SmartVestor Pro, which will give you the information on that. You can go on ramsaysolutions.com, or you can go on ask Ramsey and say, "I need a SmartVestor Pro." And that person's going to sit down with you, and they're going to help you and teach you about the best ways to invest your money. >> Okay. Cuz I I start a 401K in October

>> Okay, great.

Great. And so there's only about 2,400 in there. I mean, I don't know if I'm supposed to be I know you're supposed to do something with it at 73 years old, but I was really hoping not to have to work that long. Well, that's true, but you may have to. >> Yeah, you will be. >> So you can invest the 50,000

into a Roth IRA over time and you can put some of it in the brokerage account. You can put some of it. So the Smart Investor Pro is going to help you decide all the best places to invest that money, but I want that working for you in the market. I don't want it just sitting in an account because if you invest it, hopefully you're going to get somewhere between a 10 to 11%.

In return is what we're hoping for. So So that's thing one.

>> In that neighborhood, yes. >> Okay, and of that money, how much would you say is extra? We would call it margin.

>> Uh >> Should be quite a bit cuz you have no debt.

>> Well, anything that I have extra I've I've been putting into the 401K.

>> Yes, that's good. That's good.

>> Yes, I've already got it taken out at work.

>> But I want to know beyond that. How much How much margin do you have? And again, margin is extra. So when your check comes home, how much is left that you just say, "Okay, what am I going to do with this money? I get to choose." >> Um probably somewhere around $1,000, 1,500 to 1,000. >> Okay, so I would challenge you that most

much of that money needs to be invested.

>> Almost all of it. >> Okay. >> Because I don't know what percentage you're investing now, do you? What percentage of your of your gross income?

>> I think it's 15%.

>> Okay, since your home is paid off, you get to invest as much as you want.

Which is awesome. Yeah, because you don't have anything else to pay to pay for. So if I were you, I'd be taking that 1,500 and I'd be looking at it going, "Okay, let you know, aside from me maybe going to the movies every once in a while or I you know, maybe I go to to dinner with a friend or whatever, I'd be investing much of that $1,500 as much as you can."

>> Okay. >> Because that's going to be the thing that breaks you free in all of this.

>> All right, that sounds good.

>> And April, I'm telling you this and I would tell my mom, my mom's older than you, but I would tell her this exact thing if she woke up in your situation at 63.

Every penny's going to count when it comes to getting money into savings.

>> All right. >> Okay. >> Yes, I I have a scarcity mindset, so I don't spend any more than I have to and I just I know I'm not anywhere near where I should be though, you know, because of the late start.

>> Right. And and I would make peace with I mean, chances are I mean, the chance is high you'll be working well past 70, okay? >> Okay. >> Cuz let me do some quick math for you.

So, let's just pretend you're 65 now.

Let's say we do this until age 75. Do

you think you can work till 75?

>> Sure. >> Seven I mean, what's your health? I don't know.

It depends on the nature of what you do and what your health is, right?

>> Oh, I work very hard.

I'm running back and forth and running up and downstairs and >> Well, you tell me, what do you think?

>> health. >> What do you think is a realistic time frame that you would be working cuz I want to put plug these numbers in for you. 72?

>> Okay, well, we'll say Okay, let's go with 72. >> 72, does that sound good? Okay. So, let's say 65 to 72. Let's say you put $2,000, you contribute that every single month. That is going to leave you with $250,000.

>> All right. >> Okay, so that gives you a little something. >> I thought. >> Yeah, it does, but then the next thing I'm wondering about is once you are down

to 600 or whatever your social security will allow, if you find that it's really, really tight for you, you need to be looking at number one, I want you to call us back. But number two, remember you've got, I'm guessing a pretty decent home that you're sitting on. What's your home worth?

>> Um, probably about 185

on the low side.

>> 185, where do you live? Oh, you're in New York. >> York City, you have a $185,000 house?

>> that happen? >> It's It's actually central New York, but

>> It's still you can't sneeze in New York for 180 grand, can you? >> It's worth 185?

>> Well, not with the gas prices they have now. >> All right, well, you foiled my plan. I was going to say if you have if you have some decent, you know, value in your

home, you might be able to sell that and get something smaller that you pay cash for. But I don't know if you can get much smaller than 185. >> No, you've you've kind of won the housing lottery these days with 185.

>> Mhm.

>> Well, actually my plan is to sell this house and hopefully move to Tennessee, but I got to crunch the numbers.

>> Well, >> Well, we don't have a state income tax.

I don't know what you're going to do with all that extra money that New York takes out of your paycheck. You'll have to figure out what to do with that. But yeah, you I mean, I don't know where you would find a place to live for 180 grand in Nashville in Tennessee.

>> I think your I think your best bet is doing your best to save any and every

bit of money that you can. And honestly, while you feel good, if you've got the energy to run up and down steps and do all this, I'd be looking for even more work that I can pick up.

>> All right. >> Cuz the more you work >> Maybe I can get some overtime. >> Yep, the more you work, the better the situation bodes for you.

>> Or get a job sitting down like at at one of the beautiful hotels in New York or doing anything, right? But Um, yeah, you're going to have a busy, busy, busy next 10 to 15 years, but we

believe in you. And thanks for thanks for giving us a call and thanks for being on top of things, man, as you get going.

>> Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey Solutions Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

>> Today's scripture of the day is Isaiah 55:2.

Why do you spend money for what is not bread and your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to me and eat what is good and let your soul delight itself in abundance.

Zig Ziglar says, "Money isn't the most important thing in life, but it's reasonably close to oxygen on the gotta-have-it scale."

>> He's not wrong.

Neither are wrong.

They're both right. >> out to St. Louis, Missouri and talk to

Austin. What's up, Austin?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> We're doing good, brother. What's up?

>> Uh well, first off, thank you guys for taking my call. Um so, something that's been on my mind lately, uh I recently, you know, last year I started listening to you guys' show and it really opened my eyes up to a lot of things and I've been kind of irresponsible with my with my money and uh now I'm $50,000 kind of debt. Um

well, also I'm maxing out my 401k and that's actually why I called you guys for. My uncle, for the past 2 years I've been dumping my money into a 2065 target retirement fund because I never knew what to do, but he told me I need to be investing in either a Vanguard 500 S&P or a Fidelity 500 S&P

and he said don't touch that until you until you're 55.

And you know, that's all fine and dandy,

but I just didn't want to get to 55 and be like, "Oh, where where did all my money go?" And you know, I just I want to set myself up for the best, so I didn't know what you guys had to say about that. >> I was a little confused when you said that when you got to 55 you'd be wondering where your money went. It'd be sitting in the investment that you put it in.

>> Well, that yeah, I just don't I know he told me I never knew anything about the stock market or anything, but he says I should be investing into the stock market >> saying you're just doing what he said.

>> Yes. >> know really what you're invested in.

>> Got you. >> Okay. >> Glad you called, brother. >> How much is in there right now?

Have you looked at it? >> Uh so, when I started doing it about a

month ago, I had you know, $12,000 in

that target retirement fund. Well, in this past month I looked and it's jumped about $3,500.

So, 15.5 right now.

>> Can I tell you what my um mutual fund holding is right now?

>> Yes. >> I have no idea.

And I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you why. I do look at it once a year, but I don't know what it is right now. You know why?

Because I'm not ever going to pull it out until it's time for me to retire.

>> Okay. >> And if you watch this account like a stock ticker, you're going to make yourself nuts.

Okay? >> That's what That's what my parents tell me all the time. >> Yes. You're going to make yourself >> I like to watch my money grow. >> I I know, but you're not going to like it when the economy has a downturn and there's a 100% chance it will have downturns over the course of your life between now and 55.

And it will make you insane. It will make you feel It will make you feel, um, um, powerful when it shouldn't.

It will make you feel secure when it shouldn't and it will make you feel devastated when it shouldn't.

And so, when you put money in a retirement account, the goal is to not take it out until it's time to retire.

And so, watching it every You're 23 years old, brother. Your your rods and cones are going to fall out of your eyes if you watch it that close over the next 30 years, okay?

>> Mhm. >> And so, I do check it. I do pay attention to it. I have a SmartInvestor Pro that I work with, but man, I just don't watch it on a week-by-week, month-by-month basis because I know I'm an anxious guy. I know I can get really

up when things are up and really down when things are down. And it it's You said it on a roller coaster, man. It's going to go up and it's go to go down. And if the last 100 years is any indication, it will it will eventually tick and and and move its way up, but let it do its thing, okay?

>> Okay. And one last thing. Uh >> Hold on. Jade's going to walk you through the >> I was going to say >> some more details here. >> Um, okay, great. I just want to make sure and this is something I would check on because this is we might need this for your debt. Just double-check and see where it's housed. If it's housed inside of a Roth IRA, if it's h- inside of a

um anything that is a retirement account, maybe a traditional IRA, you can't touch it. But, if it's just sitting there in a brokerage account, you can.

And we would use it for debt because at that point it's there's not going to be a penalty if you were to remove it. But, just double-check that because if it's just sitting there in a brokerage account, that's great. That's money that's up for grabs.

Um >> And you can cash it out to pay off this $50,000 hole you're in. >> Yeah, exactly. So, you've got $50,000

uh dollars in debt. What kind of debt is that?

>> Uh well, 5,000 of it is in credit cards

cuz I was Like I said, I was stupid with my money. But, uh about a week before I started listening to you guys' show, I went out and bought a brand new truck.

>> Okay. >> That's way stupider than the credit cards.

>> Yeah, it's 45. >> What's it worth?

>> Uh well, uh brand new off the lot right now, it's probably worth around 30. >> No, no, no. If you turned around and sell your car today, you'd only get 30 for it? >> Uh that's just what Kelly Blue Book says.

>> What about private sale? >> sale?

I could probably get around 37 for it.

>> Okay, 37. So, your goal Your goal is to figure out like how are we going to get another $8,000 to clear

this debt?

And not only that, but how can I get another, I don't know, 10,000 or another

8,000 that I'm going to get kind of like a junker truck that I'm going to drive around for a little while, and it's going to remind me that I'm never going to go into debt again because it sucks to drive an $8,000 truck.

You know what I'm saying? So, what I would do if I were in your shoes because what I did here, the $8,000 clears you from being upside down. That way you can sell the car, get the title, transfer it, all of that. And then another $8,000 gets you on a ride.

That's $16,000.

$16,000 is a lot better than paying off $45,000. am I right?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. So, I'd go down to the credit union, I go down to the bank, or, you know, whatever you can do to get this money and get it on the best terms possible, and that becomes your new payment that you're paying off, the $16,000 loan instead of the $45,000 car.

And that, for anybody who's listening to this call right now, if you're a person who finds yourself upside down, that's how you get out of it. And you might think, I can't believe you would tell him to go pick up debt, but we're lowering the debt. We're going down in payment. So, that's thing one.

And in the meantime, while you're negotiating that transaction and you're finding a buyer and you're getting that personal loan, the next thing I want you to do is work so hard on paying off this $5,000 in credit card debt.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, that's like the nuts and bolts of how we're going to pay off this debt, but I want to run it back because two things that I want to cover with you that are tantamount to this entire thing taking place and actually working is you've got to do two things today. And if you don't do these two things, nothing that I tell you is going to work, okay?

>> Okay. >> So, if you have something to write with, write this down. Number one, today,

you have to go into the nearest mirror, Windex it off so you can see yourself very clearly in it, and look in your own eyes and tell yourself, "I'm never borrowing money again.

I'm not a person who borrows money." Yeah. >> do that. >> Because you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So, if you keep paying off debt and then borrowing more debt, you're just going to be a dog chasing its tail. So, you look at yourself, "I'm not borrowing money." The second thing you do today, you got to download a budget.

We'll give you EveryDollar, which is the best budgeting app out there. It's not just a budgeting app, it also has our plan for how you're going to do all this. You got to download EveryDollar, and that is going to become your new BFF in your pocket, cuz it's on your phone.

>> Okay. >> That's it. And if you can do those two things, you're going to be able to walk out the rest of this, no problem.

>> Do you have the courage to sell your truck and just get done with this thing?

Yes, I I didn't know if I should

pay it down to where, you know, I'm not upside down and then get rid of it, or should I just get rid of it now?

>> I think you should get rid of it now, because it's going to free up the money that you need to quickly pay off this credit card. And I think every day that you wait, it's going to go down in value.

>> depreciate. Do you know what that means?

>> Yeah, it means loses value. >> Yeah, it loses value every minute you drive it. >> And also, I think I don't know, but I feel like the summertime could be a nice time to buy a truck.

>> I don't know, maybe. >> you put it out, I'm just saying, if you're selling something private sale, it's a lot nicer to roll up in the summertime when the num- when when the weather's nice, versus in the winter when it's covered in snow and it's dirty from the ice and all that stuff. I just made that up, but I'm just saying that could be good, but let me go back and teach you a little bit about the budget.

You need the budget. The budget is a plan for your money. It's where you're going to fill in your income and your expenses, and you're going to tell every dollar what to do. That's the whole point. So, if you make $5,000 a month, you're going to assign $5,000 an assignment.

>> That's it for the Ramsey show today.

Thanks for being with us. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 157. Stop Looking For The Financial Shortcut—Start Doing the Work | December 9, 2025


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wall, number one bestselling author. Ramsay personality is my co-host today. open phones here at88255225.

Nicole is in Boston. Hi Nicole, how are you? >> Hello, I'm well. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

Um, I'm in the situation where I very much want to trust my husband's judgment on finances and our future, but we've hit like a rocky patch here where uh we just keep well, he just keeps kind of

digging us into more and more debt in the in like the hopes that we'll get out of it one day with some just risky real

estate world stuff.

>> And I don't know how to dig ourselves out of that and like maintain respectful marital boundaries doing that. And I don't know, I just my opinion kind of gets thrown aside because I'm not as risky. I don't want to take risks. I'm not >> Well, it's not the risk. It's the get-rich quick, right?

>> The get-rich quick. I'm not a fan of that strategy. >> Yeah. So, here's the deal. You're not called to respect your husband if every time he gets in a car, he drives it into a ditch.

You go, you suck at driving.

>> That's not disrespectful of your husband as a husband. It's disrespectful of his driving ability because he sucks at driving. So don't get this confused that somehow respect is I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to idiocy.

That's not respect. That's just that's just enabling.

Then when you give respect and and you give a compliment for something that he actually does right, we don't know if it's real cuz you also endorse stupid stuff by calling and call it respect.

>> No. No. He can't drive a car. He keeps running in the ditch. Honey, you need driving lessons and I'm not riding with your butt until you learn how to drive.

You suck at driving. That's not really I mean some version of that nicer than that is not disrespectful.

That's not disrespecting the position of that you love your man, you love your husband, you think he's a good guy. It's just he sucks at driving, >> telling him the truth. And even a good friend would do that >> and he sucks at handling money.

His his his his uh his views of money are broken. So, uh, that's how you balance it. You don't balance it. You get you're gotten confused about what respect means. It doesn't mean turning a blind eye to misbehavior or incompetence. That's not respect.

>> So, tell us what he's what hole you're in and what he's thinking of doing next to get out.

>> Yeah. I'm So, it's this week that this would be happening and my answer is like I I don't want to do this. And so, and he his opinion is we have to do this.

And so, that's why I'm so glad you took my call. Um, our hole that we're in is that he has a very problematic property.

It's always been a problem property and it always takes the cash flow of my small business and his other cash flowing property. But it's hit the point now where we have to max out credit cards, which is against my everything, to basically use those as to pay for all of the construction, all the things. And now it hit a point where the threshold's so high, we have to take out uh a bigger

loan to just cover everything to try and get it to sell. >> How many properties how many properties do you have total?

>> We now have three and we've been trying to get rid of this one for a while.

>> It's just a troublesome property.

>> What do you owe on it?

>> Uh $6 million.

>> And what's it worth? Uh, it just got

appraised at like like just over six.

Not much though. >> Is it residential or is it >> uh commercial? >> It's an apartment complex residential.

>> Yeah. And so um

you you can't sell it for what you owe on it.

>> We we can sell it. It's it just takes so

long to sell them. Like it's always takes over a year to like get the packages put together. So, so he says, like again, I I'm not in this world. I don't know what this all really means.

Which is why I wanted to ask like if we just walked away from this mortgage and said, "Here, take it." Like, we're not personally liable for it. It's business liability. >> Yeah, but that's you. >> No, I'm not doing it. Are you sure you're not personally liable for it?

>> I am. I'm 90% sure.

>> I'm not. >> Okay. Again, this is why I you guys. I don't know what I >> They make They make non-reourse loans, but seldom as small as $6 million. If it's a nonreourse loan and you're going to walk away from it, yeah, I just walk away from it because it's not worth what you owe on it. >> If it's a non-reourse loan, put the keys in a shoe box and tell them to come get them. >> Um, but I don't think it is. I I want you to be sure you're not personally liable.

Just because it's in an LLC doesn't mean he didn't sign it personally.

>> Yeah, I'm I think it's a non-reourse loan, but I can be sure before I did that. But >> but if if if your if your numbers are correct, >> okay, if it's an $8 million property, it's going to take a little while to sell it, then let's sell it for 7 million or seven or six and a half and get a little bit out of it and sell it.

But if your numbers are correct that it's worth what you owe on it, and your only option to keep the thing running is to go deeper in debt again and this time personally in order to fix up this property. Um >> yeah, that's the option.

>> No, I'm not doing that. Um, it's good money after bad is what you're thinking.

And I am too, but I don't know that. You know, I want you to verify the numbers.

And, >> um, I'm not sure if you're just pissed off or if that's the real numbers. So, >> those are real numbers. >> I want you to get in there. Well, I want I want him to say it.

>> Yeah. Cuz what if happens if you tell them, "Hey, I want to start the process of of selling this today. I don't want to do >> I'm not I'm not going to borrow money on it." No, we're not that. Okay, that's off the table.

Now, what are we going to do? We're either going to give it back or we're going to sell it as is. What are we going Which one are we going to do? Well, we can't give it back.

I did sign personally. Oh crap. Now, then you got to sell it, right? Because you're going to get your butt sued.

>> So, uh but if you if it's a non if it's a non-reourse and it truly is worth six before I put another million into this sinkhole. Yeah.

income property and it's a pain in the butt to manage. I can tell by the way you're talking about it. um you got a

bunch of crummy renters and it's not it's not a it's not a fun property to own. >> And by the way, if you say your opinion on this and and do what Dave said and your husband says that that doesn't matter and he goes ahead and does what he wants to do, that's also your signal that you guys need help beyond this is no longer a a money problem at that point, right? >> Yeah. We don't do big deals. We don't do deals of size, whatever size is at the

Ramsy's without both being in agreement.

Period. And at the washoffs as well.

Fact. >> You know, I mean, we we don't give we don't give large sums to a charity or a ministry. We don't buy things of size uh

without talking about it. And the things that we buy that aren't of size, we have talked about it in the form of it's a category and a budget, so it fits. And so, you know, um you can buy that beef tenderloin. It's in the food budget, but that's, you know, whatever. So, um, but

because yeah, that that that's the whole thing. So, Nicole, the deal is this. You guys are running on two different tracks and you need to get on the same track. That's first and foremost.

As far as the particular property goes, then that if you get on the same track, that'll better inform what to do with the property >> and you'll feel better about if you decide to keep it and work it >> and you use some of the cash flow. But so far, it's not been a blessing, it's been a curse.

what their spouse is saying.

>> I don't know. Art we're we're hillbillies, so arguing is an art form.

So I I don't know. Um, I mean, we

I I do not think my wife is a bad Christian wife because sometimes she looks at me and goes, "No, I don't like that." >> Absolutely. >> That means like she's a full- grown woman with an opinion is all that means.

>> That's right. >> Hello.

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Brett is in Flint, Michigan. Hey Brett, how are you?

>> I'm all right. >> Good. How can I help?

So, my between my wife and I, um, we've

got approximately 250 or under $250,000 in debt.

Um, most of it will resides in our

mortgage and her student loans.

Is it I'm I'm I had a weird childhood,

so I'm kind of really terrified of being homeless again. Mhm.

>> Is it stupid to pay off the mortgage before the student loans? I know you can't like bankruptcy the student loans and you can sell the house and that kind of stuff, but >> it's not stupid. I I would not categories categorize either idea of paying off the debt as stupid. I think it's smart that you're thinking in those terms of being debtree. Can you tell us

uh how much of the 250 is the mortgage and how much of it is the student loans?

Um they're honestly both about 108.

>> Okay. >> And then we've got um I've got a small

personal loan cuz my mower on my

business kind of crapped out. So I had to spend a bunch of money just so I could fix that. >> Got you. >> Um that's about 2,900.

>> Okay. >> Um we're trying to sell the trailer that we were living in.

But we've got about 700 left on the personal loan for that.

>> Okay. Where what else do you have?

>> Like 4,000 on the card. And that's

>> what you were living in a mobile home before.

>> Uh yeah. >> Okay. And what what is it up for sale for?

>> Um we're trying We have it up for sale for 40 right now. We haven't really had too much interest for how much. We're talking to uh 40. A lot of the play

trailers in the park that we're going for are selling for like 66 60 to 66.

>> What do you owe on it?

>> Um we only owe 700 more on that.

>> $700. >> Um we still have >> Yeah. >> And how long has it been for sale?

>> Um two or three months.

>> Okay. Have you had nibbles?

>> In October. So roughly then.

>> Had nibbles?

>> Not really. No. I also don't think our realtor is really trying too hard to sell it either. >> I think you need a new real estate agent. I think you need a realistic price and I think you need to get rid of that dad gum thing yesterday. That cleans up a whole bunch of stuff, man.

Even if you took 30 for it.

>> Mhm. >> It puts 30,000 towards all this debt, right? >> That's kind of the goal is to get it.

>> What's your household income?

>> Um my wife's is consistently at about

60. Uh, my business kind of fluctuates.

So, I'd say roughly between like

25 uh and >> 25. >> What kind of work? What kind of business? >> Wait, you make $25,000 a year?

>> Uh, I I do Well, that's just with the

business because it runs um just partially it's lawnmowing. So then during the winter I was doing snow plowing last year. Um but my truck for

the plowing kind of crapped out on me.

So now um I just got a job

>> um for the winter. I'm looking for another job right now also.

But that that job's only like 15 an hour. >> Okay. So you're you're making$25 or $30,000 a year and she's making 60.

>> Yes. Okay. All right. And and your business is not doing that well.

>> Um, no. This year was a little rough and

weird. My sole employee, his sister, got

married out of the country. He told me about it a while in advance, but um,

just because the time period, I couldn't take on more work, so that way I didn't destroy what reputation I had by not showing up. But by the time he >> Yeah. So hire somebody and fire him if he's not going to be at work.

>> Get somebody Get somebody comes to work.

>> Well, it was only for that like >> Well, you it destroyed your business.

>> It your business is that freaking fragile. Don't defend it. The guy don't

come to work and it messes up your whole summer. You got to get somebody to come to work, man. You got to get through You got to get this thing in gear. You your business sucks.

You are not making any money. You're starving to death. You're making a dollar an hour and you're working your legs off. So, you got to get that profitability up this coming year or you got to go get like a real job and shut this thing down because you're not making any money.

So, let me ask you this. So, can we classify the fact that you were homeless as a child as trauma?

>> Yes. >> It was traumatic, not just dramatic. >> Yeah. >> So, so that's what makes you think about losing your home and wanting to pay it off before you pay off all this other stuff, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, what happened when you were a child has no bearing on what happens

to you as an adult unless you repeat exactly the same patterns.

And so Dr. Deloney says he does a lot of trauma work. John Deloney that's on the air here with us. He says, "When you've had trauma and your body starts thinking

you're right back there again and your your shoulders raise up and tense, you get tense across the neck and your heartbeat changes and your your eyes start to dilate because it feels like it felt when you were a kid, but nothing like your when you were a kid was going on, then you need to stop and say, "Facts are your friends." The facts are

that you two make close to $100,000 a

year in Flint, Michigan. The facts are you only have $108,000 owed on your mortgage. Very reasonable. The facts are

you've been struggling at your business and it's not doing great, but you do have a good solid income. You're not going to be homeless.

That is an irrational fear.

And we don't act on and we don't make plans based on irrational fears.

That's not wisdom.

So, no, you need to list your debts smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Kick your business in the butt and get it running. And if you don't have employees that show up and don't work, get you some more >> and get this thing going.

>> And and let's, you know, and and let's get the truck fixed and snowplowing.

Let's get the the lawnmower fixed without going into debt to do it. And let's keep this stuff going. Let's start making some money. start stacking some cash and knocking this stuff out left and right, left and right, left and right. And being proactive and playing offense and playing for the Super Bowl instead of going, "No, I think we're all gonna die. We're not gonna die." >> Brett, do you have a budget?

>> Nope.

>> Then we'll send you one today. Okay.

We're going to get you started with every dollar because you're going to need that in order to know how much margin you're putting at the smallest debt, which looks like it's 4,000 on credit cards. That's your first one. But you're not going to do it if you don't know how much to put towards it. And every dollar is going to help you do that.

>> What I would do, Brett, is this.

And what I the way we chose to look at that was we will never be here again

>> because we are going to analyze how we got here and repeat exactly zero of those steps. Never again. That became our mantra. We wanted t-shirts printed.

Never again is American Express going to call my house unless it's a wrong number. >> Right? >> I hate those people. Never again am I doing business with a large bank, one of these super banks. They will slit your throat and watch you bleed out and call it sport. Never again am I going to be beholden to idiots and buttholes like I was. Never again am I going to be So that's what you do. You look back at your childhood and you go, "Never again.

And I'm going to get on a budget and we're going to get out of debt and we're going to work like maniacs, work six jobs, we're going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. Never again

are we even going to be close to homeless and quit borrowing money. It puts you back in that mode again. Never again." And you know, you can use the trauma, use the terrifying experience as

fuel to never be there again. A and so,

or you can sit and go, we're doomed to repeat this. Now, you're not doomed to repeat it unless you repeat, you know, the same unless you repeat the same habits that put your parents there. That's right. Which, by the way, was borrowing a bunch of dad gum money was one of the things I did.

>> Well, that's what I was going to say. The reason he's feeling that way, it the the reason those alarm bells are going off is cuz he is. He's doing things that he knows he shouldn't be doing and he's starting to feel the effect of it. So, he needs to listen to what his body is telling him, which is, "Dude, you're running.

You're about to run off a cliff." >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

That's a warning sign. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Stop it.

Never again.

Never again. Never again will I be

there. No thank you. You don't have anything I want badly enough to go into debt to get it to put one of you idiot bankers in my life. Never again. Never

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Well, if you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money, trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined and you aren't inconsistent. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. Emotions are part of the program.

And learning about those and dealing with that is part of dealing with the person in your mirror. And when you do that is when you are able to get out of debt and build wealth. No one has talked about that better around here than our own Jade Wshaw. Her brand new book, What No One Tells You About Money, gives you a clear, guided process to diagnose the emotions, deal with them, break the old cycles, and uh shows you a system to make that plan easier to follow.

It's kind of like that guy we were talking to a minute ago. >> That's right. >> He needs a new system.

Needs a new way to handle the emotions.

That's right. Of his childhood. >> Yep. He was stuck in stuck in fear.

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It'll make your new year better. Aaron is with us in Colorado Springs. Hey Aaron, how are you?

>> I'm having a a day. How are you doing Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so for the past three years, um I've

had a lot of issues with the IRS. and uh

the Colorado uh Department of Revenue.

Uh my former employer that I worked with for 27 years, somehow my social security

number got tied to their Shopify account. And the Feds as well as uh Car

State have been coming at me for the last three years on back income tax that I owe them. And uh today I received

notification um I apologize. They're going to start garnishing my wages and I'm just in a tough spot and I've

reached out to my former employer multiple times to try to fix this and they've done nothing to uh to help me.

>> So what does the IRS say you owe them?

>> Over $180,000. What does the Colorado state say you owe?

>> Uh right now they're saying $13,000 and

some change.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> But the 13,000 >> What do you make a year from?

>> Uh right now I'm making about 130k.

>> Okay. Were you a a partner in the former business in any way?

>> I was not. >> You were simply a W2 employee.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, dude, you need to hire an attorney.

That's what I keep on thinking. I just try to >> No, today you should have called them before you called us. You need to get a tax attorney, someone that does taxes, >> and they need to call the uh Colorado and say, "Look, if if you garnish this guy, we're going to sue you for $20 million >> because it's not his debt. It's a clerical error, right? >> And you can't garnish him. There's nothing to be afraid of, honey. You don't know the money.

It's not your money. You didn't you don't know it. It's it's an error by your former employer and you're probably going to have to sue them. Get them off their butt, too. But joyful joyful, light some people up, baby.

>> I know. I I contacted a a tax attorney

about 6 months ago cuz I I I put a lot

of faith in this uh business here in Colorado Springs cuz I you know, they're a Christian business and you know, when

I talked to the tax attorney, they're like, "Well, it's going to cost you $6,000 out of pocket for us to do And I was like, I just can't afford that. I don't >> You can't afford not to do it cuz Colorado's getting ready to take $6,000 out of your butt any minute.

>> Yeah. >> You may as well give it to an attorney and fight back

>> yesterday. Why did you wait 6 months?

>> Oh, >> did you think this was just going to go away, honey?

>> No. I I I honestly The IRS keeps on

sending me notices saying that they're working on it and that they need more time. No, you wait a minute. You You actually Here's what just came out of your mouth. You just said the IRS is competent.

>> That's hilarious.

>> That's a funny joke. >> And that they're going to investigate this for you. >> The the IRS is going to help you.

Come on, man. Really? You know who's going to help you? You starting today.

So either call that tax attorney back or get a new one. And you need to that somebody needs to be in touch by the close of business with Colorado so they don't start garnishing your dad gum wages, man. Because here's what you get for doing nothing. Somebody will do stuff to you. You can't do nothing.

Nothing is not one of your options. That strategy sucks.

So either call either call that tax attorney back or get online at Ramsey Solutions, find one of our tax pros in the area and have them make a recommendation. You need legal representation by the close of business today. They need to be in touch with somebody and say, "Hold on, Junior. This guy does not owe any money. This is a clerical error. And if it can't get fixed by working directly with the tax institutions, you may have to sue your good Christian former employer who can't seem to help you get rid of $180,000.

That does not qualify as good Christian, by the way. Hello.

>> Amen. >> Pissing on your employees does not qualify.

>> Hello. >> Well, thank you, Dave. I I I hear you. I appreciate it.

>> You need to be the hero of the story, not the victim. Mhm. >> Get up and get them cuz this is not going it's not going to fix itself, man.

>> Okay. It's not This is not There's no There's no There's no uh tooth fairy that's going to land in here that the tax fairy is not going to come visit you and fix this. You're you're going to have to be like a grown-up and go attack this situation with a vengeance.

Otherwise, it's going to take you down because you don't want to screw around with the IRS for the next decade.

>> Yeah. And they're wrong. You're in the position of power. You're right. You have the information. I just feel like your your countenance is very low. As

though everybody else knows more than >> as if you have no options. You're the one with all the options.

>> But listen, you hire an attorney who gets excited about this. Not one who's like, I don't know what we're going to do. If that's the attorney, fire them before you hire them. You want an attorney gets mad like I am right now.

>> Oh, I appreciate that, Dave, more than you know. and your your book changed my life and made me a believer. I want you to know that. >> Well, I appreciate that. Hey, hit this thing right in the nose and see if it'll bleed. Okay.

>> I will. >> Yeah. Knock it down. Knock it down. This is This been Listen, this has owned you.

Every waking moment for the last year, hadn't it?

>> The last three years. >> You need free. You need to be free from this. And the only one's going to set you free is you with action. Okay. So get on Ramsey

Solutions, talk to one of our tax pros in the area. Tell them what your situation is and you tell them I'm fired up about it. Said Dave's fired up about this, >> okay? And get me an attorney that's fired up.

>> You want an attorney that even you don't really like. >> That's that's the kind of attorney you want, okay? You want one that pisses off everybody because that's his job as an attack dog. Sick them. All right. Her

job, whatever. Get it. And that that's man she >> that's crazy. He's letting these the IRS

could care less. Number one, >> none of these people could care less. >> No one is become incompetent bureaucrats.

>> No one is. Yeah. No one's thinking about this. He's >> including the former employer. How embarrassing. If we accidentally did that to one of our people here, I would be I would be so embarrassed that I would have fixed it in 20 seconds.

>> Yeah. And somebody would have got fired.

>> Yeah. Hello. Wow, >> man. Wow. >> Well, not not if it was an honest mistake, but it goes on a long time.

>> $180,000, too. >> He's been losing sleep for three years.

>> This is not like we didn't sell like two paintings on Shopify here. This is like there's something big going down here.

Wow. >> Wow.

>> Oh, man. >> If you want something done, sometimes you just got to do it yourself, Dave.

No. Every time. >> Can't be waiting around for these fools.

every time you got to do it yourself. When you guys listen, when you know something's wrong and you kick it, you you put you kick it up under the rug.

Kick it up under the rug. You know what you get? Lumpy rug. That's what you get.

And these things have a high rate of resurrection. Like a 100% chance it's going to resurrect. It looks like a zombie when it comes out from under the rug. Now, go ahead and kill it now so you don't have to deal with it later.

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>> John is in New Hampshire. Hey, John. How are you?

>> I am doing good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my main concern is of retirement. I

am 47 years old and I was laid off from

my job in early December of last year. I don't have anything in retirement. I had to kind of use the retirement I had to

survive until I was able to get a new job. >> Have you gotten a new job? >> I have a new job now. >> Yes, I have not. I have a job now. I started in Yeah. Um I'm making 80 a

year. >> Good. And I'm also in the process of interviewing for a better job that if I get it will be about 110ish.

>> Wow. >> Here. >> Great.

>> Yeah, that's all good. Um, but I have nothing in retirement and I've got some debt and I live with family right now.

So, between needing to get a house of my own and retirement >> Mhm. >> getting out of debt, I'm just kind of worried and not sure what the best way to accomplish all that is.

>> Gotcha. >> Especially at 47. >> You're single?

>> Yes, single, no kids. >> How much debt?

>> Total debt 52. Just over 52.

>> On what? >> Thousand.

Uh, that is a mix of credit cards and then two vehicles. And I know one vehicle is a motorcycle that needs to just go away. I understand that. >> How much do you owe on the motorcycle?

>> 288 >> 28,000. >> Holy smokes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's half your debt.

>> Wow. Okay. And how much do you owe on your car?

>> Uh, just over 9,000.

>> Okay. That's good news. >> I've been long. There's not much.

>> Okay. So that's uh 30 37. So what? And

you got 20 on credit cards?

>> Uh 14. >> 14. Okay, cool. Any other debt that I'm missing?

>> Uh no, I believe that covers everything.

Um just normal things that are monthtomonth like insurance and >> Yeah. >> couple streaming services.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I mean the

glaring thing is the motorcycle, isn't it? Obviously, >> right? >> Yeah. So, it's half your debt and it's not needed and >> all that. So, yeah, that thing you need to get that sold before Christmas. Somebody needs a new Christmas present with your motorcycle.

>> So, with the loan >> No, I wasn't kidding, man. I mean, really, you need to get rid of this stinking motorcycle right now.

>> With the loan that I have on it, obviously, nobody's going to pay more than what the what the bike's worth more than they can and just buy a new >> It's worth about 25.

>> Okay. All right. >> 24ish. Not not a lot left.

>> So, who do you owe the 28 to?

>> That is America.

Uh, what is it? American.

It's a credit union. >> Oh, good. Okay. Well, swing down. Is it local branch there?

>> No, I I recently in April moved to New

Hampshire from Vegas. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Call call the credit union back at the hometown and say, "Hey guys, um, I'm upside down three grand on this motorcycle. I got to get the thing sold. I need to sign a note for the difference.

Okay, >> I'm going to send you 25 and sign a note for the difference and y'all need to release the title.

>> Okay, >> get that get that arranged with your they'll do it with your man get them credit union manager on the phone and then you just sign whatever it brings.

You send them all the money >> and then you sign a note for the difference. Now we're down to 3,000. Okay, that's good. That's gone quickly.

Quickly, >> this is like glaring bad thing right here. Out of all your stuff, nothing's really stupid except that one and that was like super stupid right there. Okay.

So now >> then then you're going to get an apartment the cheapest you can possibly get and be out on your own again like a grown man making 110,000 80,000 or whatever you're going to be making and >> somewhere in between. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and then we're going to clean up this debt and we're going to build an emergency fund and then we're going to starting money away and you're going to be a millionaire when you retire. >> Is that okay?

>> So it's not too late at 47.

>> No, it's not too late in retirement.

>> I'm 65. That's so insulting. That's your That's your homework. That's your homework. When you get off this call, I already played around with the numbers for you, but I want you to do it for yourself. If you're going to be making $110,000 a year, you know, taking home

around seven, you invest 15% of that, a,000 bucks a month, 1,50, and that's assuming you're never going to increase your income, which is false. You're going to keep getting better and better. But even if you did a,000 bucks a month for the next 20 years, you're going to get really close to a million bucks and you're going to do better than that. Right.

Right. So I want to get that job. I'm in the middle of the >> You're going to get the job. And if you don't get that job, you'll get another job. >> You've already got one. Making 80, >> right? >> Okay. Just you and take three more extra jobs until you get the until you get the new job. Just work all time, man. Clean up his mess. >> You need to look You need to look at the future because looking at the future is going to motivate what you do right now.

Because if you look at that number and you say, you know what, that's not good enough. Then that's going to motivate what you do with your income going forward, right? Yep.

>> Right. >> You can play around and say, "Well, what does it look like if I invest 1,500?

What does it look like if I invest 1,800?" Right? And that's going to inform what you do today. Same thing with the debt. Plug it into every dollar. See how long it's going to take currently. And if you're not happy with that, you get to change that. You get to side hustle. The good news for you is you're single and unattached and you're at your sister's house. So, you need to be working like 20 hours a day

>> time. Yeah. You won't you won't die from hard work right before you die. You'll pass out. >> So just work all the time. My

grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke. Go work.

>> I want you working, working, working, working, working. What's my name? I'm working John. That's all I do. I work. I get out of debt. I'm building wealth cuz I'm 47 and I don't want to retire and eat dog food. I'm working working. And you you'll get this mess cleaned up.

You'll have an emergency fund. You'll start to feel better and the lights will come on because right now they're a little dim.

your your hope the hope that's not in your voice is bothering me more than your numbers. >> And the reason that Dave and I sound the way we sound is because we hear every day people doing this and they're successful and they turn it around and we know that you can too. >> You can do this, John. So, we're going to put you on the upgraded version of Every Dollar.

Hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and take care of you and get you on the budget. But get the motorcycle sold. Get five extra jobs or three extra jobs and work and work.

and John, that's your name, man. And uh we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're going to attack them with a vengeance. We're going to get those credit cards out tonight.

Light a candle and have a placectomy party.

Let's move on. It's time to do something different. So, if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. The last thing you want to do is be calling me at 57 living at your sister's house broke. >> So, let's get after it and fix it now.

Time to do it. You can do it. You can do it. And you're right, Jay. The beautiful thing is you and I have the

unbelievable honor of getting to meet heroes every day who looked in the mirror and said, "Time to change something >> and and didn't wait around on >> That's right. >> You know, they weren't they weren't sitting they weren't they weren't watching the news." That's right. They were working. >> Yeah. And many of them uh in a worse situation than John >> Much worse. So the time the time is and

a guy like him, you got to remember the time is going to pass anyway. The time between now and him retiring, right? God willing. >> And he gets to choose what he's going to do with that time. He can be the same, worse off, or better. >> And and those are your three options.

And >> and here's what's weird. If you absolutely I mean, we we're poking fun a little bit at it, but if you work like a crazy person, like ridiculous hours, >> you work like no one else, later you can work like no one else. >> That's right. That's right.

>> You know, when I work kind of when I want to. Hello. You know, and that's because I got financial peace a long time ago. >> Yeah.

>> And I I don't owe any of these stupid banks. They're not calling me up. I don't have, you know, all this stuff coming at me that I can't handle.

It's just I built a life that said, "Yeah, >> I'm not going to be beholden to you people that are screwing everybody. You car companies." I mean, who loans a guy $28,000 on a motorcycle who lives at his

sisters? I mean, come on.

>> WELL, TO BE FAIR, I DON'T THINK he lived at his sisters yet. >> That's a banker ought to have his butt kicked up around his neck. Oh my god.

Seriously. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And guess what? The motorcycle went down in value. Oh, I'm so shocked.

So, yeah. The good news about him though, I mean, John's got it made half his dad gum problem is one stroke.

>> Yeah. >> One stroke. >> Yep. and the fact that he didn't have a job for forever and that's not >> messed him up. Yeah. Well, that that's got what got the credit card debt.

>> Yep. Sure is.

>> So, this is guys, you can do this stuff.

But listen, I if if you want a different result, you have to put in a different recipe.

If you get if you keep baking a cake and it keeps turning out vanilla and you wanted chocolate, you need to change the recipe. Hello. You keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity.

That's what the 12stepers say, and they're right. Don't keep doing the same thing over and over. I just can't seem to get ahead. Well, then quit doing the same dad gum stuff.

Hello. You got to change something. Throw some dynamite in the middle of it. Let's bust this thing up, man.

It's time, boys and girls.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. CeCe is with us in Cleveland. Hey Cece, what's up?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> So, um, can you hear me?

>> Yes, ma'am.

Okay, so I'm 27 and I'm in dental

assisting schools and I also own an online boutique, but I'm starting to pay

for my mistakes I made when I was younger and they were terrible. Like I'm

$40,000 in debt >> and I'm like I don't know what.

>> So half is from my car, a Honda Civic.

I'm financing it. So 20K is >> So you owe 20,000 on your car.

Yes. And then I was so young.

>> I was young and dumb and I decided to lease a Mercedes at like 23 years old.

And when I returned the lease, the wear and tear, the miles and all of that, I still have to pay for that. So that's about $10,000.

>> And how how long ago was that?

>> That was I returned that car in 2023.

>> Okay. So they're not happy with you.

Okay. >> All right. Two years ago. And um >> and and then what's what's the other that that that what's the other 10,000?

>> So I did take out a student loan for about 5,000 because I'm in dental school and fast paid for half. So I had to take out a loan. >> And then the other amount is just from

like personal loans and credit card, right? And I'm not working right now. I lost my job. So I'm like, should I file bankruptcy or should I just drop out of school and just >> What are you in school for? $5,000. I

don't understand >> for dental assisting. So >> dental assist,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I never knew any dentist that went to school for five grand. Okay. >> So you paid three out of pocket and got a loan for the other five.

>> Well, Fastwood pays for the three and then I had to get a loan for the other.

>> Okay. And what what what were you doing that you just got fired from?

>> Well, I didn't get fired. I decided that I was going to quit my job and run my business. >> Oh. How much? Because your business is bringing in a lot of income.

>> It was until I quit my job and start having to pay my rent with the money I made from my online business.

>> Okay. What are you making from the online business >> right now? I'm not making anything because I just put it on pause. But I was making about 300.

>> Why are you stopping? >> Why are you stopping all the things that make money? This is so illogical.

because it's so hard to juggle school

and running a business and it's like I'm >> You're not running a business. You stopped it.

>> Well, it was before I stopped it. Before

I stopped it, it was hard because

>> now listen. Okay, hear me out.

>> I pro I start using it to pay my rent

and my car and all of my insurance. So, it's like now I drop because I'm using >> Okay, let me let me go back. Let me go back. So, you're a student. You're a full-time student. Can you work at least

part-time at the very least? Because you got to live cuz what's the other option?

Right? Cuz if you stop working at the other job, then you stop working at your business. What are your options? To put your lifestyle on credit, right? And that's what you've been doing.

>> Yes, I know. And it's not working.

>> I know. That's why I'm telling you, you got to go back and get >> the job that you quit. What were you making of the job you quit?

So, I was a correctional officer for about three years and I was making about 4,000 a month. But it's just I wasn't happy. And um >> And now you're really not happy because you don't have $4,000 a month. >> Yes. Cuz I'm broke. >> Yeah. So, here's what you need to do.

You need to go get a job. Any job.

>> So, here's the thing. Hear me out. I got an offer at the post office. Um and they pay a pretty nice amount. It's just I'm scared it won't work with school. Like, should I >> So, so quit school. You need money.

>> Uh CeCe, um >> you called me and asked me if you wanted to file bankruptcy. That was your question. And then you're telling me you don't want to work and you want to go to school.

>> Wrong answer.

>> Is it just Is it just you, Cece? It's just you.

>> Yes, it's just me. I've been doing everything since I was like 17.

>> And you're living by yourself or are you living with someone, a roommate, or is it just you? >> No, I'm by myself.

>> Okay. You gota you got to do this. And

the good news is and I told the other guy this who called in. It's just you.

You don't have to get home to a kid, to a husband, to a grandma you're taking care of. It's just you. So you all you this is time management. This is the problem. Time management and you understanding that this is going to be hard for a season. How much do you uh how much time left in school?

>> I graduate in June. That's why I don't want to quit. >> Okay. Then then stay then stay in school and work full-time >> and let you >> for six whole months.

That's it. And let your goal just be I'm working and I'm going to school and I'm paying my rent and I'm just doing these what I'm going to call just typical adulting tasks. I work >> I go to school. I pay my bills and that's it. >> So ch something's going to be hard. The

wise person chooses the hard thing they

want to do instead of the hard thing happening to them. You're going to have something that's painful and hard.

Ready, set, go. Now, you decide which one you want it to be. Now, I would rather be tired and a wee bit stressed from working all day and going to school than as broke as you are and scared as you are. That's hard.

>> So, I would choose not to be where you are and choose to work full-time and go to school like a crazy girl and then get out in June and go live your best life.

>> Yeah. Let's talk realistically about your schedule when you do the dent dental assistant thing. How is it daytime? Are you going at night? How does it work?

>> So, right now I'm in night school.

That's the thing that's stopping me from finding a great job >> that that you're at night. >> 5 to 9. Yeah. 5 What time is the post

office job?

>> So, I start Monday and it says 8 a.m.

>> Uhhuh. Perfect. Um, someone told me that the post office you could work 12 hours a day, six days a week, and that's why I'm scared.

>> I told you something. >> If you start at 8:00 a.m., you want to know when you're probably off work?

>> Three. >> Four. Four at the latest, which means you can hop over there and get to your class at 5:00. You can grab a bite to eat.

>> Don't Don't do this because >> somebody told >> because somebody told you. Because do you want to know what that tells me? I'm going to tell you. I'm I'm being your friend right now.

If an excuse that's that vague is enough to make you stop, it's cuz you don't want to do it to begin with.

That's what that tells me. So, you have to want this for yourself. CeCe, I'm looking at the numbers. I'm looking at the schedule. You can do this. You got the job. 8 to 4 max. Hop over there. Do

the school from 5:00 to 9:00. It's 6 months. Like Dave said, you can do this.

It's going to be hard, but you can do this. You you you this is you >> you have to want to do it.

>> Yeah. Choose your hard. Something's

going to be hard. Be a big girl and

decide which one you want it to be.

>> Do I want to be sitting here terrified, broke and but you can't just be randomly

walking out on stuff. You just go, I

don't think I want to work anymore. What the hell? >> It got too hard. Well, the pattern is here's the pattern.

It got each one of them got too hard. You were the corrections officer. It it was it's tough, man. It's mental load.

I can understand that probably is a tough job, but it got too tough. You left. Then you started doing the online business because that seemed easier. You did it for a while and you realized, oh, this is harder than I thought.

I'm having to use my profit. I can't invest my profit back in. I have to use some of it. It got hard.

You quit that. Now you have this job on the table that could really break you free. And you're thinking, you haven't even done it yet. You're just thinking it might be hard and you're about to bail on that.

CC, that's yours to break.

>> It's going to be hard. Buckle up, buttercup. It's going to be hard. It's going to be worth it. >> Suck it up. Go get it, girl. You can do this.

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So, one of the criticisms of Gen Z has been

that um and I disagree with it, by the way, um because I disagree with the premise, but I'll go ahead and lay it out there, is that generation Z, their

20s, um are not resilient.

>> Okay. >> You know, stick with it, do hard, do hard things >> as a as a generation. This is what people are saying. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the criticisms that they don't they don't know how to do hard things >> and they don't they don't stick through and persevere >> and that is somewhat sometimes true. Our last caller as an example, right?

>> So no no question she didn't want to do hard things and you said you got to do hard things. If you live like no one else later you can live like no one else >> and um rejoice in your suffering the Bible says because suffering produces perseverance >> man. What? Yes. Keep going.

>> And perseverance character.

>> I've been talking about this D. >> And character hope. And hope is a gift

of the Holy Spirit. So yeah. Uh so there

there's a there's a lineage. There's a suffering creates perseverance for so >> maturity is what some of the versions say. >> Exactly. Exactly. So the um

the thing is what I what I have found is

um I mean we got about five 600 Gen Z's

working here on our team and they're the good ones. There's two kinds of Gen Z's.

Awesome and sucks, right? >> And we've got the awesome ones. You can get you can get the good ones. They they're good. when they're good, they're good. And they they're abundance thinkers. They they believe that anything's possible because they've carried around a magic wand in their hand their whole lives. And if they push a button, stuff happens.

>> And so the first time something does get hard, it's sometimes it's a lack of resilience. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance. But sometimes it's like,

what's the point in doing something hard? Because there's probably a workaround. >> There's a lot of tools I can do it for you. >> There's something some way I can work around this and not have to go through that. Mh. >> And um that it's the way their mind it's the native nature of their minds. The way their minds have been programmed to live and it's really not a bad thing. I mean you cuz really you should stop and go is there an easier way to do this?

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And it you know is there a workaround?

What's the hack? >> Right. And um >> work smarter not harder. >> What's smarter?

I mean why do I just keep running into this wall and call that perseverance? No, I should probably walk around the wall. Hello. Yeah.

And so um no me I'm just boom boom boom boom boom. you know, like a dad gum rhinoceros or something that's that's brain damaged. And so, no, you could just move over there and walk around. You don't have to hit the wall, dummy.

It's concrete. And so, but they're really good at looking for the workound and looking for the hack.

that has caused them to be accused of lack of resilience, and I think that's a wrong conclusion.

>> I I can agree with that. >> Now, sometimes there's a lack of resilience. There's a lack of per, you know, stick to it, push through. And and so really what this comes down to is if you're a Gen Z or if you're parents of

teenagers right now >> that are walking around with a magic wand, they do not know a world where

they can't push a but they've never experienced a world where they can't push a button and stuff shows up on their porch in 24 hours. >> Mhm. >> They don't. If you want to know what the temperature is, we used to have to go outside and look at the thermometer and we came back in and went, "It's cold." you know, now you just push the weather app, right?

Anything you want to know or anything you want to do is a magic wand in your hand. So, if you parents are doing that, what I suggest as a parenting thing because it's becomes a part of your their success principles that they're going to live their life from, teach your children to do hard things.

Yes. >> Put something in front of them that's hard. Mhm.

>> And 100% of the time that any of us are doing something we've never done before and it's hard. I'll tell you what rises up inside of you.

>> Frustration.

>> And then it can with me. I just get angry. >> Yeah. >> Not at someone, but I just get pissed off. I can't do it. I've never been able to do this. And it's, you know, trying to learn a thing with a sport, trying to hit the golf ball a certain way. Oh god.

Yeah. >> And I have to just stop and go, it doesn't matter. Okay. The secret to happiness is low expectations on the golf course, right? But the but persevere, push through, push through, push through until you get a callous.

Push through. Push through. Push through until your brain is tired. Your emotions

are tired.

Learn to do hard things. Those

that are 30 years old and under in the

next 25 years that know how to do hard

things will be running the country.

>> That's right. And Yes. Yes.

>> They'll be running the country.

>> And the rest of you that don't learn how to do hard things will be following them and doing what you're told >> like a bunch of sheeple.

>> And so learn to do hard things.

Marriage for 50 years is hard.

It's hard. And anyone tells you this is a cakewalk is a liar. Okay? There are

times that you want to kill each other.

Literally, I mean, I'm not talking metaphorically. I'm talking about I want to Yeah, >> you're right. >> And hide the body. You're right. There are times >> parenting is hard.

I mean, I now that I've got grandkids, I'm really glad I let them live, but there was a question a time or two whether they were going to live through this or not. You know, it's worth it. Go ahead, parents. Let them live cuz they'll bring you grandbabies and it's worth it. Let them live. Don't Don't kill them. But yeah, but man, >> this is making me feel way better about myself. >> It's hard. >> It's hard, y'all. Managing money and

saying no to yourself so that you can say yes later.

>> Tough >> is hard.

Not filling up the cart on Amazon and hitting submit is hard. I want it and I

work so hard. Oh, call the ambulance.

>> You work hard. Everybody works hard. You little whiner, you know. Oh my god.

That's the one that's inside. I'm a little drama queen. I work so hard. You don't work hard. You don't even know what hard work is. You've never done any hard work. Hard work is not never I work

hard. No, everybody.

>> That means you went to a building all day. That's all that means. >> Everybody does it. Yeah, everybody does it. >> There was no sweat involved.

>> Now that's a word. And you drove there

>> in the air conditioned car. I worked

hard. >> It's perspective.

>> So do some hard do some real things that are difficult. You know, our our friend uh Michael, what's his name? Esther.

>> Yeah. Easter. >> Easter. Easter. Is that right? wrote the book Comfort Crisis.

>> Yeah. Read Comfort Crisis.

>> We have a crisis in the culture because we become so we've worked so hard >> to become comfortable and now we're so comfortable we don't know how to do hard things. >> And you have to practice the hard things. That's like uh >> we have to go from our 72°ree kitchen to

our 72°ree garage to our 72°ree car to

our 72 degree office and we call that hard. >> No. And there really there's no starvation involved. There's no no one's hung I mean there there are some hungry people out there. I don't understand but I mean most of you listening to me right now you you know you got your $800 iPhone and you're not you know and you can't complain about you know living like you you live like 1% of the world top 1%. So it's do some hard things.

Those that know how to do hard things will always be leading those that don't.

>> And I also think there's just personal dignity in it. I mean, there's just certain things that it's good to do.

Even if you could do it easier, even if

you could have somebody else do, like, for instance, okay, it's it's winter, all the leaves are falling off. We could probably pay somebody to come clean up the leaves, >> but we have to teach our kids that it's good to do hard work. So, >> yeah, you can pick out stuff like that.

I didn't do all that, but I mean, I did.

>> Do you know what I'm saying? >> You know, you you've got to do the hard things. Whatever it is, it can be a mental challenge. It can be a physical challenge.

can be an emotional challenge. I don't want to go over there. She doesn't like me. Oh, well, tough. You know, learn to work with difficult people. They're everywhere. >> So, you might as well get used to that.

So, here's a plan.

>> Deal with that. She's mean. Oh, well, she's there's going to be a she's mean everywhere, believe me. So, you got to learn to handle them. And that's part of do hard things. Emotionally hard, physically hard, spiritually hard, whatever it is. Um, but the diligent are the ones that prosper. Diligent is excellence over time.

>> Diligent prosper. That's the Bible says that. Okay. And so you're going to prosper when you learn how to do hard things with excellence over time.

Because when you do the things that other people won't do, you'll always have the things that other people don't have.

Had dinner with my friends the other night. It's her 50th wedding anniversary.

They've done some things that most people won't do to get to that point.

>> They put up with some stuff off of each other to get to that point. >> Didn't commit murder. >> They didn't They didn't kill each other.

They threatened to. They didn't kill each other. It's worth it. It's worth it. They got some things that other people don't have.

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Google Play. Brad's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey Brad, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So, I inherited about $450,000.

It's in >> it's in an IRA, an inherited IRA, so I have to pay taxes on it. Um, but I think I'll have enough to pay off the house

>> afterwards. >> I want to know if it's better to invest that or if it's better to pay the house off. H >> how um how much do you owe on your home?

>> Uh so 373.

>> Yeah, you would have. Yeah.

No, no, you won't either. It's gonna You're not going to get that much out of 450.

>> It's all taxable at ordinary income when you pull it out.

>> Yeah. >> It's going to put you in the top It's going to put you in the top tax bracket. So, it's 30%.

>> So, I'm pulling it out a little bit at a time. So, I'm going to do it over like a four or five year period to where I can stay in that 22% tax bracket.

>> Uh I don't think you're going to be in a 22% tax bracket if you do that. That's 100,000 a year. I don't think that's a 22% tax bracket.

>> So, it would be better to look at investing it. >> No, that wasn't what I was saying. I'm just questioning your tax numbers is all. Um, there's not an inherent there's not um So, have you talked to a tax uh

person to help you run this out?

>> I did and that's where I got the 22%.

>> Okay, then maybe I'm wrong. Okay. What do you make? What's your household income? >> Uh, so we're about 120 130. Um, he told

us about since it's married filing joint, it'd be about 228,000

give or take is what the 22% would be for us with the standard deduction.

>> Okay.

All right. All right. Um, I will shut up then. Okay. So, you can pull a 100 a year out for four years.

Yeah, roughly. >> And keep it at 22. Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. Um, now back to your question then. Um,

we surveyed and did research, the largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America, 10,167 of them. The number of them that said I

borrowed on my house to invest in the stock market and that's how I became wealthy was precisely zero. None of them

did that. Instead they worked systematically to get out of debt and systematically to invest while being debtree.

That's what they almost every one of them like 89 percentile. So, um, that's

the data tells me that the smartest thing to do, what millionaires typically do is to pay off the house. And so, I would pay off my house if I were in your shoes. And then I would use that increased cash flow to build wealth with because you don't have a house payment anymore because your house payments, God, what, 4,000, 3,000 bucks?

>> Uh, we're at 23.

>> Okay. So, yeah, round it up to 3,000.

put 3,000 a month into a mutual fund after your house is paid off and you have a million dollar in that one account in no time. That's $36,000 a

year. That's that's legitimate investing.

Okay. So, yeah, that no. So, the answer to your question is I pay off my house as soon as I can. Okay. >> And I I I want you to go back. I'm going to have to pull it up. Are you pulling up taxes? >> Yeah, I'm looking at it. It looks like 206 married filing married filing jointly 26,000 to 394

24%. >> Okay. Well, he said he said 22. Yeah.

>> So, yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> So, you're right in there. >> All right. I'm This is why I don't do taxes because I suck at it. Okay.

>> Well, then no, it's always >> either way. Yeah. So, yeah, you avoiding bracket creep is the smart way to do this. >> There's no reason to give them extra money. Is it invested in good mutual funds? So, I've got it invested right now with Fidelity. They're managing the account.

Um, and they're I've got it on a low risk because the market's been doing pretty good. Um, so I didn't want to I

didn't want to market turn and then lose the inheritance. >> You're not going to lose the inheritance with the market turn. You might lose some of the gains, >> but you won't lose the inheritance. So, no, that's there's not been a market turn where the market evaporated.

There's never been one. Even in the Great Depression, the stock market crash, the market didn't completely evaporate. It just went way down. So now, you're not going to lose the inheritance, but you might lose some of I mean, you might lose $10,000 or something, but um but no, I So, make

sure it's invested in something good that's not um because this market's

going zoom zoom and you really do want to be in on it. >> Um while you're sitting on it because you're dumping, you're because you're going to do this over four years. Make sure you're in at least an index at least and maybe a little bit more risk than that. It's where I would be anyway.

So, but but if you're doing that, yeah, you're going to be beating up on this tax bracket thing and running that running that as soon as you pull it out though, dump it on the mortgage. Soon as you pull it out, dump it on the mortgage the day you can get it out January one.

Boom. So, you could take some this year, some next year. Right. So, right now you got three week span you can get you can two hits on. >> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> So, you can pop some this year, some next year. and and that's um in the next

month you could put 200,000 on this. So um and I would I definitely would >> I' I'd just ask more questions too. I I I'd want to know why he landed specifically at 100,000 when he still got that window up against the tax bracket. >> His his income plus 100 out of this puts him right at the at the bracket creep.

That's what he was saying. >> Yeah. Well, it puts him right in the middle of the bracket. It puts him right between >> 22. What's the 22 max?

>> 22 max is 206.

>> That's what he said. Yeah. He makes like one something. >> He makes 120.

So if he took a 100red, he'd be over it already. >> Yeah. Okay. So, well, it won't be quite 100 then.

It' be just under that. But yeah, he's going to run right up to the edge of the 22s. We said, >> "Okay, that makes sense. Be careful." >> That that sounds like it's good advice.

Sound like you got it nailed down. >> But yes, the bottom line is I'm going to pay off my house before I invest. I would not borrow on my home to invest and it has the same exact mathematical effect if you don't pay off the house and you instead invest. So, no, I would not.

I'd get the house paid off. All the data that we have shows to go that way and common sense says to go that way and when you lay your head on a pillow in a house that you don't owe anything on, it feels different. >> I'm just saying. >> I say it all the time when people come up against hard times, you know, whether it's COVID or they lost their job or there's a diagnosis, the number one thing people think about is, "Can I keep my house?

>> Is my home going to be okay? Is my house going to be all right?" That's the number one thing. >> Not how my mutual funds do.

>> I didn't check my mutual fund. that never comes up. >> They want the security of their home being stable. >> Mhm. And I think there's something about it being stable that adds to um the adds

to a lot of things for one thing, but but it it adds to career choice.

>> Yes. >> Because I don't have to I don't have to put up with this crap so I can go over here and make more money.

>> And you're you just feel >> I don't know. You got a little more swag got a little more swagger in the marketplace when you >> when you don't do that. So yeah, I would

uh not to mention, you know, relationally, number one cause of divorce, money fights, money problems, money stress. Don't have that. Don't have a mortgage. Hello.

>> Uh not as much and not as much chance anyway. Oh, by the way, um what's the number one cause of death in America? Uh that would be hypertension, heart attack, >> that kind of stuff, right? And guess what?

Low blood pressure. You got lower blood pressure when you don't have a mortgage. >> That's right. I actually don't have any um data >> on that.

the anxiety caused by debt.

>> That would be groundbreaking.

>> What would be the cost? What's the real cost? >> My interest rates a good deal. Not anymore. Not once you run the medical bill on top of it. Yeah, that that uh that's a different thing. So, I mean, just >> chill. Take someone's pulse. Like put a put a meter on them as they're signing for a car note.

>> Yeah. >> See what's going on with those vitals.

>> Through the roof. >> Check the brain wave. See if there is one. >> No, those fell off.

Those fell off the chart.

Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat.

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not in all states. >> All right. Today's question comes from Hayden in Pennsylvania. He says, "My wife and I recently got married and bought a home. We're debtree other than the home and have a fully funded emergency fund of about 19,000. Our combined income is approximately 10,000 a month and our expenses are only around 3500.

We spend around $450 a month on eating

out and entertainment. Now, I'm a saver and I find it very hard to spend on items that I don't believe are needs. My

wife loves to think about ways to decorate our first home. And given that we're debtree besides the home and investing 15% in our retirement, what strategy should I put into place regarding how much cash we could wisely spend on furniture? I'm happy sitting in the dark living room on a lawn chair reading financial statements, but you're cooler than me. >> Nerd if this is terrible.

He says, "You're cooler than me and we'll answer the question in a way that will ease my anxiety and also help our marriage." Oh, yeah.

Um, yeah, you guys are doing fine.

You're doing good. Baby step four, investing 15%. Love all that. The fact that you have all of this margin is fabulous. this $10,000 coming in, 3500 going out. I Dave, when I think of

things like this, I I like thinking about it in terms of what I'm going to call just kind of a financially responsible adult checklist. And this is a checklist that needs to run in the background for people who are either nerdy like this guy who's got Tide Watt syndrome or, you know, people who just have a hard time trusting their instincts. Maybe they've made a lot of bad mistakes in the past and they're just getting >> getting comfortable with the idea of doing well with money. Number one, and it it's following the babysitter.

You you're on your budget every single month. You're checking in with your budget. You're utilizing your budget. If that's yes, check green light. Next thing, are you a person who's out of debt and you're not entertaining things that allow you to go into debt? So, you're just a debt-free lifestyle. Yes, check. Are you a person who's carrying the proper insuranceances? I'm guessing you are. I'm guessing you have your life insurance, your wills, everything's in place there. Great green light. Next thing, are you person who is doing all the ways that we say to save money?

You've got your 3 to 6 months check.

You're investing 15% a form of saving.

Yes. You've even bought a home, another forced savings account. Green check.

Very, very good. And are you a person who's prioritizing generosity? Now, I did not see that in the things that you talked about. That could help. So, that's one that I'd put a little question mark. If you are doing those five things, you are what's known as a financially responsible adult, which means when there's margin left over, Dave, you can use those. You don't just have to do needs, needs, needs, needs.

There's some wants that you need to throw in there, and you can do it in a you can trust that you'll do it in a responsible way because you've been responsible on all the things that matter. So, yes, give your wife some money to decorate this house. You're not going to go into debt over it. You're not going to sacrifice the things that you need and that make you a responsible adult. So yeah, do it. Get in the couch.

>> There are three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can spend it

wisely, and you can save it. You need to

be doing all three of those things.

>> Yes. >> And when you're not, you're not in balance and you're going to blow up at some point >> or somebody around you is going to blow up. You could live in a lawn chair in your living room. She can't. So, she won't be living with you >> if you keep this up. That's how this works. Okay. So, financially responsible adults. I do not understand it. I My joke was I do not understand China

dishes that we never eat on. And I really don't understand a $3,000 cabinet to put the dishes in that we never eat on. I don't have to understand this. You don't have to get it. You just have to get it >> cuz you speak Raptor. >> You have to go get it. I I don't speak China. I speak Raptor. I speak gun.

>> You speak gun. >> I don't speak purse. So yeah. So I don't have to get it. I've just got to get it.

Happy wife, happy life. >> And got to remember what's it all for? Like otherwise why what's why are you doing this if you can't enjoy any of it?

>> Well, it's not it if part of him enjoying it is allowing his wife to enjoy. We have a line item in our budget. Continuously decorating.

>> Yeah, >> we're continuously decorating. For 43 years, we've been continuously decorating. I haven't always been aware of it, but we have been continuously decorating >> because the cur the window treatment >> finally I gave up and admitted it. Okay, now we're actually doing it.

So, we're going to put it in the budget and this is the number you can do up to this per month or you can not do it for three months and still spend the total of those dollars. I don't care. But this is the amount and I have the same thing for whatever my little thing is, right? I'm going to go buy a gun or I'm going to do whatever with.

That's having fun with money and it has a an agreed on amount.

>> Yes. You both >> and then there's no thing. So you put a put a little fun category in there and do that. And no, you're not being irresponsible. Jade's got you checked off. Exactly. Right. And he's making fun of himself to his own credit. He's I'm a nerd. He's saying he's saying I'm a nerd and he knows he's a nerd. That's good.

But most men can live under a bridge. It doesn't bother us. And so we don't need drapes. I mean, we don't understand.

It's like shades will do, you know? So cheaper shades. But yeah, but I don't understand. I don't know why it has to.

Oh well, it's so it doesn't matter if I understand or not. I have figured that out. So yeah, you need a budget for a line item for generosity. It doesn't sound like you have that and it sound and you do need a budget line item that you've both agreed to and then you shut up about it.

No whining about it. No, I gave you $500. You don't give her nothing. She married you.

>> There you go. >> So we decided we are spending $500 a month. We decide we're spend $1,000 a month. We decide whatever to decorate our new home >> and he'll probably like it.

I mean, you like the stuff that Sharon picks. >> Not No, not equal to what it costs.

>> Listen, I'm scared of you when you go home. >> No, I'm not. I don't I truly I'm not as

bad as this guy, but I truly don't care.

>> I would not have spent that on that chair. Not in a not in a million freaking years. >> That's good. >> But that's okay. I'm happy and she's happy and we've got the money. So, it's okay. >> It's okay. Everybody's good. And she she you know, she does not understand some of my obsessions either. So, it's okay.

It's all right. It doesn't m The point is you need to enjoy as a couple your money.

>> And you need to be generous and give your money. >> That's right. >> And you need to be constantly investing and saving. And you are.

And so, we know you got that one. And so, yeah, it's there's three things you can do with money. You have to teach little kids the same thing, by the way. Teach your little kids to give, to save, and to spend.

>> I'm on it now. >> That's It's a hard That's a hard one, but if you get them there, they'll be happy adults. >> Yeah. Yeah, they will.

I'm working on it. >> Good balance. Good balance. Alyssa is in Austin, Texas.

Hi, Alyssa.

>> Hi. I'm thrilled to be here.

>> Good to have you. How can we help? >> Um, well, I want to know how I should quit

working on my business or keep going.

>> What are you making? Are you Are you making money?

No. >> How how much are you making? What's your total dollars coming in in a month?

>> Uh like 500 a month.

>> How long you been at it? >> I've been working on it like really

hard. Like three months, but I was like lightly doing it. >> What is the business? >> Months ago.

>> It's a digital marketing business because I want to work from home because I'm a homeschooler mom, so I want to work in the afternoons. And >> did you buy some kind of package or something to do this with?

>> Multile. >> Yes. Well, I I promised my husband I

wouldn't like spend over a certain amount, you know, so I'm almost to that limit and now I'm questioning like should I keep going cuz I bought like a course and like professional Zoom and

like the website things and it's like slowly trickling and most importantly I have to find someone to watch my children in the afternoons >> so I can have time to work on the business. Plus, I'm working on the weekends. My husband is graciously watching them and I'm like I don't know if I'm just at the low part of starting a business. >> No. >> Or if I should just keep going.

>> No, there's no there's no mystery to it.

Henry Cloud says on the in his book, Necessary Endings, that when you lose hope that things are going to get better, it's time to end whatever it is.

>> So whether that's a relationship, a job, a business, a and so you've got to give me a reason why you think this is going to start making 5,000 a month.

because you're making a dollar an hour right now. This sucks, >> right? >> So, you got to really you're going to have to solve for I'm going to make these final three moves and get this to $4,000 a month or I'm not going to go,

"Oh, it just takes a while." No, it doesn't take a while. You got to go get the stuff done. >> Yeah. And have a plan. >> Yeah. And you you could have gone and gotten a part-time job and made a whole lot more.

So, I I kind of think you bought an internet thing that you read and I think

they sold you a bunch of crap is kind of what it sounds like to me.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wshaw is my co-host. Ramsay

personality, number one best-selling author. Jessica's in Springfield, Michigan. Hi, Jessica. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Yeah. Um, I am calling. I am a single

mom with a rowdy little toddler son, but

I um one one um income and been working

three jobs and trying to do the baby steps and then I just feel like I'm like in a and I'm not like a rut or just just not getting anywhere is where I kind of feel like. Um try not to get emotional with it, but I just feel like I just sometimes have failed. Um that's kind of where I'm at right now.

>> So >> yeah, I don't think you failed. You might be tired. >> Mhm. But I don't think you failed. Um, so tell me about who's who's watching the baby when you're doing all this work. >> Yeah. So I actually um just moved back home with my parents to kind of help >> like save money and I actually don't um Yeah. So how old are you actually?

>> Um I'm 36. >> And how much child support are you receiving? >> I do not get any. Dave, >> why? >> Um I had a bad lawyer. I feel like um we

uh we actually have joint custody, but I don't actually get any support. So >> Okay. And what do you make at your day job? >> Yeah, so my full-time job um I make about 50 53,000 and then with my I do

have two side jobs >> that like and I make about 58,000 a year

um alone >> at those two.

>> Um no, sorry. Like >> 58 your side jobs only make $5,000 a year. >> Yes. Mhm. Yeah. not making anything at your side jobs. Okay.

>> No, they're both contract jobs and one of them I honestly just need to get rid of. Um they there's really no work there anymore. Um but I work my full-time job I I work between anywhere between 10 to 20 hours overtime um each week with that. >> So what do you when you bring home your when you get your checks for the month, what's it total for the full month? um for the full month um they typically are about um after tax is about 38 um 3,800

is typically where I sit.

>> So what you're you're home with your parents and they're helping you out and that 3,800 what's it going towards?

um towards debt um right now. And I am I am still um I'm paying my rent up until this actually this last month um which um which I'm paying for an empty apartment in Alabama, but um I do that's another $1,000 I will be getting in my in my in my pocket.

>> She had $1,000 rent back in Alabama. And now what what else was the 3,800 going to? >> Um uh student loans and um student loans

and medical debt and um credit card done is where that How much how much student loan debt do you have? >> Um student loans is right about 28,000.

>> And how much medical?

>> Uh medical is about 3,000.

>> Okay. And how much credit card?

>> Uh credit card is $8,500.

>> Wow. You know, I'm hearing this and like the more you're saying it, the more excited I'm getting because you're getting this help from your parents. The $1,000 you're going to get back in your pocket after this month. you know, next next month you can knock the medical debt out. >> You got a car debt?

>> I do have a car debt. It's uh Yeah, it's

it's 8,000.

>> Okay, that's not bad. And how's the car running? It's all right.

>> Yes, it Yeah, it it runs great. And I've

I mean I' I've gone through the FIP university and I I debated selling my car, but I do I had to travel back to Alabama monthly. So having having a car for my talk, >> why do you have to travel back to Alabama?

>> Um what it's it's crazy is I still have to take my son for visitations. Um which

his his father doesn't really care. Um it's a sad thing. >> So his dad won't come to you where you are. You have to by is it by court order that you have to go to him?

>> Yes. Mhm. Yes.

>> Is there a way to go back and change any of that?

Um there's I I have debated going back

and um going back to court, but it was like an $8,000. I'm sorry. I'm so emotional. >> It's okay. It's all right. >> It was like It was $8,000 bill.

>> How long were y'all married?

>> We were not married thankfully. Like thank God that we were not married. Um cuz I dodged the bullet on that one.

>> Okay. Okay.

Okay. And so you're you're talking about the travel that sets you back a little bit. >> All right. So, but so did you get a tax?

How long How long have you been gone from Alabama? Gone from him?

>> Um, we just moved back in May. Um, so

about seven about seven, eight months.

Um, I think that's >> Did you get a tax refund last year?

>> I did. How much? Yes, sir. I did.

>> Um, I I believe it was shy of 3500.

>> Okay. I want you to go to uh HR and change your W2 by $300 a month and bring

300 more home to 4,100.

>> That would help a lot >> because that's what you're giving the IRS too much every month out of your check. You're giving them too much money. They don't more than you owe.

>> And and let's get you on a budget because I think when you get on a written plan, you're going to see that living with your parents right now, which I think is a good move for you right now, all of your money is your I mean, are they charging you anything? Have they said you need to do this or that?

>> No. I mean, I help like with groceries and stuff. >> So, if you take $1,000 a month to live on and put $3,000 a month towards these bills, uh the medical bills are gone in one month. 3 months later, the credit cards are gone >> and uh 3 months later, the car is gone.

>> So, 7 months from now, you're debtree except student loan.

>> Right. That that would be amazing. Well, no, that that's exactly your number. And then in another eight months, this student loans are gone. >> Yeah. >> So you're looking at 16 months, 17 months on this. >> If you can stay there that long, you'll be debtree and be able to go get you an apartment and start your life.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> And if you get an extra job that's reliable and legitimate where you're making some serious money >> versus the versus the crappy ones you've got now, you can you can accelerate that speed. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's what here's what's happened. Your emotions and your body

physical reaction is still living back

there with the doofus boy.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I'm sitting here in your future.

Jade's sitting here in your future and it's so bright I need to wear shades.

See, it's you cuz I'm I'm looking out six months from now.

>> Mhm. M >> and you're debtree but student loans.

>> And and by the way >> that that is not scary or crying numbers. Those are happy numbers,

>> excited numbers, celebration numbers.

>> And don't get hung up on the six months because you're going to feel it after this month when you pay the medical debt. You're going to start feeling it >> right now. Yeah. >> Soon as you start doing the budget.

>> This month, no medical debt. Next month, half the credit card's gone.

>> Or a third of the credit card's gone. The next month, a third. The next month, a third. the next month. So, seven months it takes to get the car >> and the credit cards and the medical

bills down to just the student loan.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. You're okay.

>> Mhm. >> You're okay. It doesn't feel like you're okay because your life has sucked for so long, but now just look out into the future and I see a really cool future.

>> Yep. >> The rearview mirror's got manure in it.

Okay. >> Yes. >> But the future's bright.

Okay. So, you're coming out of the manure pile riding a pony, kiddo. Here we go. >> All right. >> Yes. Like, yes.

>> You're okay. Your your numbers are better than you feel. >> Uh-huh. >> Okay.

>> Do you hear the math? Do you hear the math? >> I I do. Yeah.

I'm Yeah, I >> just suck Just breathe that in and hold it, right? You're okay. We're going to set you up on every dollar and if you need to call us back, you call us back. We'll keep walking with you.

But you can do this. This is very doable. If it was bad, we'd tell you. >> That's right.

>> We tell you the truth around here.

Kelly is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Kelly. What's up?

>> Hello Dave. thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um I'm 53 years old. I've been dating my

boyfriend um for about 2 years now and and the idea of long-term commitment in marriage has been coming up. Um we're both financially stable, no debt,

lot significant amount in retirement accounts and he is just straight up

against marriage. Um, >> he got burned bad.

>> He did. He did. He actually he really got burned bad. Um, and that was I mean

that was 20 years ago, 25 years ago.

>> Yeah. But he still he still lives in that. >> What? Yes. >> Was he upfront about that? Has he been upfront about that? The fact that he doesn't want to be married?

>> Yes. >> And you were thinking maybe you could change his mind? >> I thought I was okay and now I'm like but it's not. I mean, I understand we both like we both have kids.

>> Yeah, >> they're almost all adults. We both are financially stable.

>> Um, >> that's so heartburn. >> And obviously it it it is. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> So, I'm just stuck, right?

>> No, I mean, you're not stuck.

>> You're not stuck. You've already you've already decided who you are, and he decided who he is, and that's a bad thing. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah.

You know, >> I wish it didn't feel bad. >> I thought I wish it didn't feel bad, too. It's but it feels awful. It hurts cuz you really I mean you like the guy obviously.

Um might even say love the guy but I would just say you know I thought I could be okay not being married and I'm not okay and you're not okay talking about getting married even or getting you know counseling for what happened to you. I'm not her and I feel like she's being held against me and against the institution of marriage. All marriage is not bad.

All people don't mistreat each other the way she did. And >> so, his conclusion is illfounded.

>> It's b it's based in scars and pain.

>> And um, and he's he's unwilling to address it. >> Well, here and here's the other part of it, Kelly, here, and I'm thinking about this just from a if if I were in your

shoes. >> I wouldn't want to have to convince somebody of it. >> Yeah. >> Do you see what I'm saying? Like even if you laid out some sort of a hey if you don't do this I'm walking and then if he decided okay I'll marry you. That doesn't feel good either does it.

>> No it doesn't. It doesn't. Cuz I've thought about that. >> You know that's the tough part.

It's tough. I'm not going to lie. I I feel for you. >> I'm sorry.

>> And it's it's it's a few years in the future still but I don't you know I'm I'm not 20. >> Well I mean you've already so I don't want to waste those years. >> Did you say three years? >> I wouldn't.

No. There's no there's no f there's no no time in the future.

>> And so you start >> all right. I was hoping you were going to just give me some magic to convince him that it was that it was good.

>> But I'm kind of I think it is good. And I think it's him. I think if I were for if I if he was on the phone, I would tell him to sit down with a therapist, sit down with his pastor and start reaching towards some healing from his past >> because he's he's hurting. He's the scars are dominating his thought pattern rather than his bright future and he's about to lose a great gal because of it.

So, >> have you mentioned that to him that maybe there's some healing that needs to take place?

>> Uh, no. I don't think I've ever actually said those words. Um he he had a long-term partner who didn't require marriage and I think he just kind of settled into that and then >> they broke up very easily, right? I mean it was, hey, let's go our separate way.

>> So he's never been actually married before. >> No, no, he was married >> and then and then he had a long >> and then he had a long-term relationship that she didn't require him >> to marry. Um and then she just kind of said, "Okay, I'm out. I'll see you." >> And he was like, "Oh, okay." And he's like, "See, I didn't have to go through a divorce.

I didn't have to pay a lawyer. This is great. This was so wonderful." And I'm like, >> "But that's not the commitment I want." >> Yeah. Yeah.

That's exactly right. This is Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, I appreciate you taking my call. >> I'm sorry. Thanks. Thanks for calling.

>> Oh, that's tough. >> That's That is hard. That is hard.

>> That's uh That's tough. It's You You

have these conversations early and often. And he did say it. He said it from the beginning. >> Yeah. I mean, you can't argue with a guy in terms of his honesty, but that still doesn't it's just not a matter.

>> Painful. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think the thing is the only thing I might have done if I looking back on it, I'm trying to look backward on this is maybe, >> you know, a little sooner in the pro rather than investing two years into it >> and because the heartbreak is more extreme the further you're into it. So, ouch. >> Ouch. >> Lynn is in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hey, Lynn. What's up?

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I would love we would love your opinion on if it makes sense in the current housing market to sell our Airbnb.

>> Tell us more. Why are you thinking of selling? >> Okay. So, so I lost my job. Uh, my position was

eliminated about six weeks ago and I'm currently looking for another job, but if it doesn't I I don't think I'm going to be able to make as much as I was. So, if it doesn't work out, we would definitely have a profit from selling the Airbnb. >> Um, and we could definitely live on that for a while.

>> What does does your husband work?

>> He does. >> And what does he make?

>> He probably makes only about 37 a year.

And let me explain because he's he had a

business. We moved in to South Carolina about a year ago. He had a business um a dist distributing business and we were

living on mostly on my income because I I was at a company for a very long time and they told me that you know it would work remotely and regardless they did eliminate my position. So he's working at a local supermarket um in a receiving area. >> And what were you making >> looking for a higher paying job? I was making probably 90 >> doing what?

I was an executive admin to a president of a company. >> Now, what made you say that you probably won't make that again? That's a crazy statement.

>> Uh because in South Carolina, um I was a I I I did that my entire life. And to

just step into a position, >> um an executive admin position, you're not I'm not going to there's nothing available currently here that I've looked at in the last six weeks, two months that starts at that level.

Understood. What do they start at?

>> Um, more 40, 50.

>> Interesting. Okay. Uh, back to the Airbnb for a second. Uh, what's it worth?

>> Um, probably 200.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> 112. >> Where were you living before?

>> So, in Pittsburgh, is that what you mean? >> Yeah. And why did you choose South Carolina?

Um, two of our three daughters uh live

around the corner from us and one lives in Charlotte, so we needed to be near them and near our grandchildren.

>> Is Airbnb in Pittsburgh?

>> No. So, we bought it in 2020 um so that

I could come down here and work and be be close to the grandkids when I came down. And then when we moved down here last year, um

we decided to Airbnb. Well, actually, I decided to Airbnb. >> The answer to your question is simply yes, I would sell it. Okay.

But then the other the other thing I want to address is um number one, your husband needs a different position. >> Um and number two, I your set of assumptions. I'm um >> struggling. >> Frankly, I'm I'm very familiar with Colombia and I'm very familiar with Charlotte and I'm frankly shocked that you haven't seen any executive positions anywhere, assistant positions over 40 or $50,000.

That's I know if you go to Charlotte you would and that that might be >> an hour and a half north. Yeah. >> Well, that's where one of the other kids lives. I heard that.

And so you'd be an hour and a half from your grandkid over on that side, but be next to the kid that's in Charlotte.

need the income, but um I don't know what you all need to make to survive and and and so forth, but uh on the back end of your career, but I

it it it is a it's an interesting observation, 30 years of doing this, that people when they lose a job, for some reason always assume they're going to make less. >> They never assume it's an opportunity to make more. I don't know why that is.

>> We've had all those years of experience.

I would think. >> Now, Columbia is not a huge market, but it's big enough that there ought to be somebody over 40 playing for an executive assistant. That doesn't feel right. So, um, but I think it's just a

belief system. You're just like, "Oh, I'm always going to make less cuz I'm not in Pittsburgh." Well, I mean, that's pretty snobbish. So, um, that South Carolina doesn't pay what Pittsburgh pays. Yes, they do. So, um, hello

Heat.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. Hey, interest rates are down, boys and girls. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's happening in the housing market. Well, we're here to tell you the latest trends. The latest trends are that home prices held steady last month. 424,000

is the median. In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room in the winter to negotiate, snag a better deal.

That's generally true around December.

Mortgage rates are at 5 and a half in October. Nice. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you, go to ramseyolutions.com/market.

And we got all the market data on there.

Facts are your friends. Don't listen to the crazy friends of yours. YOU'RE A KID. Don't don't listen to all the cr all the whining and the carrying on.

It's nuts. Just go find out what the facts are and you'll be amazed at how housing is still there. It's not all gone. Your life isn't over. Everything's okay. Logan's in Dallas. Hey, Logan. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. I'm good. I'm doing well.

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Uh, so my wife and I, we've always had separate bank accounts. Um, and my wife

is is uh is against combining to to one

shared account, but lately she's been stressed because she hasn't been able to help out as much as she used to used to with the bills. >> So, I'm wondering what sort of alternatives we might have.

>> How long you've been married?

>> We just celebrated our 10 year anniversary this year.

>> Why is she against combining accounts?

because she's told me that she feels like um if if she combines her bank

account, she would feel more um um she

would she wouldn't feel independent.

>> Got it. >> Why? She doesn't think you're going to count her vote.

>> She She doesn't She doesn't think that uh um she doesn't want to spend my money. >> How? >> It's not your money. It's our money. We got married. I know. >> How'd she grow up? How'd she grow up?

uh uh she grew up in a she her mom and

dad are still together. They have separate bank accounts though as well.

She's kind of following in there.

>> Okay. Well, let me let me give you a couple things. Number one, the um data

tells us uh when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done that people who combine accounts have a much higher probability of actually becoming millionaires.

And uh 89% of the millionaires surveyed

said that were married said that one of

the reasons they became wealthy is they worked in alignment with a spouse that

was cooperative and combined everything.

And so the uh marriage vows or the old

marriage vows are true. In the old book of common prayer they used to say for rich or for poor in sickness and in health. We've all heard that one. But there was in the old ones they would say, "Unto thee all my worldly goods I

pledge." In other words, we're allin.

We're going to share everything. The same bed. We're going to share the same house. We're going to have flu at the

same time. We're going to be allin.

Okay? And we share and we share bank accounts. And it's not our your money and my money. It's our money. My wife

has not had an income since my 40-year-old daughter was born.

But we have an excellent income and I

don't we don't ever say Dave makes the money, Sharon doesn't get a vote. That really wouldn't work at all. But but it

also doesn't work at all. So we were very careful with our pronouns.

Everything is shared. It's our car, our everything. Unless the dog pees on the floor and then it's my dog. But other than that, it's our everything, right?

And so your dog, but yeah, but other than my dog that everything is we, our us, >> and this is what we are doing. We built a house, we bought a car, we went on a

trip, we saved up some money for retirement, we bought some investment real estate, we do it all. And uh there's a tremendous marital benefit to that as well because when you agree on

the overall, let's put all the money in one pile and we have to sit down and both of us have an equal vote. I'm not suggesting she loses her independence.

I'm suggesting she lost her independence when she got married. You did, too, by the way. Uh, you now promised to work with someone the rest of your life on things. >> You gave up being independent. That's independent was when you were living by yourself in an apartment. That's independent. Okay. But um but you didn't lose your identity when you got married, but you but you did lose your independence. You are now interdependent. Thank God. And now we're

going to work together. And I I really

really really I can't stress this enough what it will do for your relationship. Cuz here's the thing. When you agree on your spending, you got the whole money a pile and we sit down together. She gets a vote. You get a vote. We're going to spend our money together.

You are agreeing on what you fear. You are agreeing on your dreams. You are

agreeing on your values. you are agreeing on what we're going to be generous with. And when you don't combine it, you don't have all that agreement. And so, a level of unity, a level of oneness is missing from your relationship. I'm telling you, man, Euro's relationship will double in quality when she gives this up.

>> Yeah. When I hear this, I I hear somebody who What's at the root of this?

I think it sounds it sounds powerful for

women to say, "Oh, at the root of this is like I'm a feminist and I'm a I'm an independent woman who don't need no man." But really what's at the fear the root of it is fear is what I hear is somebody who's fearful that if I combine 100% with this person, something could happen down the line and I could be left out to dry. I could be the one left holding the bag. I could be the one that ends up getting screwed out of this. >> By the way, the law says otherwise.

>> But that's what's the law protects that.

That's what's ticking in her mind. And so that's that's the the the nerve that I'd be going after is >> when I think of the word independence, that means you're free from something.

And in this case, you're free from me. I don't want you to be free from me. I want us to be together. And what I'm thinking is you're thinking about will you be protected in the future? Could something happen to you? Let's talk about all of that. I think if you can speak her language on this, you can come together on this. >> Yeah. I just the problem is if you don't

you're lowering the quality of your marriage, the probability of your marriage working and you're lowering the probability of building wealth. The data tells us all that, right? >> That's those are facts. It's not a feeling and it's not a spiritual statement. It's a databased statement

and we know that from having done this for 30 years and having studied we research project and research project out there >> out there on this and so yeah um so

young man if you're out there and you want to get married and you want to um

never be told what to do never ha never

have someone have an opinion on whether you go by and have a beer after work or never have don't get married

because that's what's going to happen.

That's one of the things you give up.

You you you now have acquiesced to

someone else's desires.

>> Sure. 100%. >> Young man, if you're getting married, young woman, if you're getting married, if you want to be independent and be a feminist, you shouldn't be. Marriage is not for you. >> Well, life just changes. It just it's not for you. >> The definitions change.

>> It's not that you have to submit to the men. It's quite the opposite of that. Um it's he needs he's got to submit to you too. Submit yourselves one to another.

>> Ephesians says >> that both of you >> serve each other that both of you and

this is what creates high quality relationships. This is what creates high probability building wealth. Oh by the way careers take off too. It's the weirdest thing. >> And the data says that people who combine their money they're just happier. Like just daytoday they're happier. I think >> Arthur Brooks happiness study, he finds that stuff in marriage all the time. The cooperation creates the happiness >> and and as opposed to I'm standing up for my rights.

>> Well, and it's building trust because when you can do money together, you've the thing you've learned about each other is I can depend on you and you can depend on me. I keep my word, you keep your word, we keep our word. And when you do that, >> that's good right there. You're good. >> That'll preach. >> You're good to go.

>> Yeah. That's it's an of integrity verification. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's that's strong. That's strong because you know it it and it's not in his situation. His situation doesn't apply to this. But I can't tell you the the reason that that that song sings right there is the number of times I run into someone who's got financial infidelity, they also have sexual infidelity.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> There's a correlation.

>> Oftentimes we run we run into it a lot in the counseling office here. So it's just Oh man. Wow. Hey, that's a cool question. Thanks for putting it out.

Our

scripture of the day, Colossians 4:5, be wise in the way you should act toward outsiders.

Make the most of every opportunity.

Thomas soil said, "Why is there so much effort being put into trying to find intelligent life on other planets when there is serious question about how much intelligent life there is here?"

>> Oh, not bad. Not bad at all. All right,

Erin's in Pittsburgh. Hi, Erin. What's up? >> Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. Thank you both for all you do and thank you for taking my call today. >> Sure. Thank you. How can we help?

>> So, I I kind of called on a whim. Um, but basically just a quick question. Um,

me and my husband are on baby steps four, five, and six. Um, and you know,

my I have two boys, uh, ages 16 and 12.

They both want some pretty expensive clothing for Christmas. Um, one hoodie,

for example, can be anywhere from, you know, $150 to $300.

And I I grew up without without money.

And so, um, you know, I just look at

that and I think, you know, I could buy five hoodies for that price. And I just need to know, am I crazy? You know, it's a Christmas gift. Is it okay to spend a lot of money on like one item of

clothing? Um, I mean, I feel like it's

okay, but I guess I'm trying >> What's your household income?

>> Like right around right below 300,000.

Is it the fact that is it the 150 because you might spend 150 on I don't

know a bike or to 300 on a bike or a scooter or a gaming system, right? But

clo is it the fact that it's clothing specifically or is it the money specifically?

>> It's it's honestly clothing, you know, it's like I said, you know, I I I mean >> Okay. So, it's the it's not the money, it's the fact you don't feel like it's good value.

>> Yes, exactly. I don't feel like it's a good a good value. And I'm just like, you know, like I said, one hoodie is $300. I'm like, oh my goodness, I could spend I could use that money. >> I'm so out of not aware there was a hoodie that was over $70. >> No, there there is. >> What's the brand of this? I'm so out.

I'm such a dad joke. What's the What is the brand of this? >> Um I think it's called Spider. Is it's

there's like a five in the middle. I'm just But it's like Okay. >> It's like Is that ski? The ski wear

>> spider skiw wear. Yeah. Um I it's just that stuff can be expensive. I think some some rapper made it, you know.

Yeah. Some rapper.

It's what's popular at school. They want to be, you know, they want the latest thing. I >> So now there's two there's two parts to the discussion then. >> And you know, it might be fun to sit down and talk to them about it >> and go, okay, I grew up poor, so this is

hard for me. This is you talking. Okay,

>> number one. Number two, we have the money.

And I'm I'm concerned about two things here because I think you are. I'm going to put words in your mouth. You tell me if I'm wrong. Okay? I'm concerned that

we're buying something super expensive just so you feel better about yourself >> at school >> and uh so that you think you look cool and you think that clothing makes you look cool instead of just by the way being cool is a way to good better way to look cool. And um then then the

second thing is is that I'm worried about what I'm teaching you when I do

this for you. I can afford it and I'm

willing to overcome my childhood part in

order to do this for you. But I'm worried about you guys and what I'm teaching you if I do this because it's not a very good it's not a good use of the money. You're buying one thing and one thing only here and it's prestige.

You're not buying the quality of clothing. You're buying the name.

>> And so it would be the equivalent of a 16-year-old girl wanting a uh what $2,000 coach purse.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And and you know, which is why does she need that purse when she has, you know, she doesn't at school. Okay.

The same thing. Yeah. Or I'm making this up, but uh >> you know, an expensive item. And is a coach purse worth that? No, you're paying for the fact that people see you carrying a Louis Vuitton or carrying a Coach. >> That's what you're paying for. The the purse itself is not constructed,

>> you know, 8x better, >> right? >> And this this this hoodie is not constructed. The quality of the material or something is not is not double what the $75 hood. So, I mean, you just kind of talk that through with them >> and go, what is it? What is it that's driving you to want this? And cuz as your mom, I want you, my job is not to make you happy right now. My job is to raise you to be a complete grown-up.

>> I'm trying to raise great grown-ups, not great kids.

>> And that's my job. And this is how we talk to our teens. And we would say, "Okay, what's the value system? What matters here?" And I'm not shaming you.

I just want you guys to think through this. And you know, and once we've talked it through, if I'm convinced that you think you're cool without this, I might get it for you. I'd also I'mma throw another question in there because I I'm a creative and I I always am encouragement encouraging my kids to be themselves. I'd want to know is this a trend you're trying to set or is this a trend you're trying to follow? >> Oo, >> that's what I'd want to know.

>> Wow. >> Because if you're trying to set a trend, I'm all in with you.

>> Really? >> I I love I I want >> leader of the pack. >> Yes. >> Leader of the first one to the game.

>> Yeah. I like that. >> Early adopter. >> Good. >> Wow. That's interesting,

>> huh? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I just I don't want our We don't none of us none of the three of us, Erin, you, me, or Jade, want our kids to have their self-esteem based in what they wear or what they own,

>> right? >> Stuffbased self-esteem is really shallow

>> and it's kind of Instagram influencer crap, you know? And it's like it's shallow. >> It's all about how you look and instead of who you are. >> And it's all about who who sees you with this and >> that kind of thing. One of Rachel's rules, my daughter's rules is if if no one ever sees me with this, would I still buy it? >> So good.

>> Yeah, that's good.

>> And she in other words, I'm buying it for me, not for someone else. See, I when I was in my 20s, I drove a Jaguar cuz I wanted everybody to think I was wealthy and had a Jaguar. Now I drive.

The only cars I have are for me. I don't care what you think cuz I went broke and

I lost all my care what you think. It all went away. I don't give a crap now what you think. So I drive whatever I want to drive and if you don't like it, I couldn't care less. I'm not taking a poll. >> So um you know and so I drove in a

pickup today and I'm just it's a great pickup but I don't care. I can drive whatever I want to drive and I like the car. So that but I I but when I was in my 20s it was real concerned about what you thought. >> So Rachel's rule is a good rule too. I love that rule. If no one ever saw you >> Yeah. I like the trends setter thing.

That's interesting. >> Yeah. Because you know teach them to lead. >> There's always something that's the big trend and it's like if you get it you're part of the cool people. You're part of the group and it's like no you you make the trend and let everybody come and follow what you're doing. I I I care about >> and I and I worry too I worry too that you know this is the trend now and if I buy it in another three months it won't

be 100% it won't be >> no >> this time next year it's in the goodwill pile >> goodwill no question >> no question it's going it's going it's going to the homeless this time next year >> there's um there's a there's a viral

video going around social media of a mom

and she's asking her daughter who's probably somewhere between the age of your boy somewhere between 12 and 16.

She says, "Hey, uh, reme do you remember what you got for Christmas last year?" >> No. >> Have you seen that? >> She can't think of any of them.

>> Most kids I can't tell you.

>> But then she said, "Where did we go on vacation?" And the daughter remembered exactly where they went. So that right there is a good indicator of how experiences are better than stuff.

>> Yeah. How their minds are. I I I would use this as a teachable moment and instead of saying am I spending too much money, it's what am I getting for the

money I'm spending.

>> And part of the one of the things I'm getting is the lesson that you two boys learn from this.

And I got to become convinced that you think that you're awesome without this hoodie. >> And if you think a hoodie makes you awesome, I'm not getting it. Mhm.

>> Cuz I'm not going to I'm not going to cause your self-esteem to be based in what you're wearing ever.

>> That's not a lesson we not not at the Ramsy's >> and not at Aaron's house.

>> And you know, I think it'd be a great growing up thing for them to talk about peer pressure and >> Yes. >> You know, all this stuff and trend setting and following the cool kids and all that crap. Yeah. >> Yeah.

I think it it's a great it's a great conversation to have. >> It is. And um you know teenagers actually and if you'll come in and start with I grew up poor so this is hard for me. Start with vulnerability they'll really listen.

>> I bet I bet >> that puts this hour the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Heat.

Heat.

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## 158. Stop Making Excuses for Bad Money Choices | August 4, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `7QUdRGKPZcM` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QUdRGKPZcM) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:51 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Live from Nashville, Tennessee, it's the Ramsy Show where we help people with their wealth, their jobs, their work,

their relationships, with just about everything. And I guess jobs and work are the same thing, James. So there you go. If you want to be on this show, we're taking live calls.88255225.

I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend George Camel, and we're taking calls from all over the planet.

888255225.

Let's go out to Pennsylvania and talk to Nancy. What up, Nancy?

>> Hi, guys. How are you >> doing? Awesome. How are you? >> I'm okay.

>> So, what you got? Well, so I have a little financial problem with what to do

about my dad's house.

>> All right, tell us about it. >> Okay, so my mom just passed away in February. >> I'm sorry. >> Thank you. And my father

um decided three months after my mom passed away to make a phone call to a woman that he hadn't had an affair with over 40ome years ago.

And the problem is now um they're in

love.

>> Okay. How how old is he?

>> 85. >> Okay. That answers my next question.

>> Yes. >> Wow. So he's 85. Mom passed away. And he

immediately goes, I got the old flame over here. >> How old is this lady?

>> She is in her 70s.

>> Oh, she's young. Okay. >> She's younger. >> Perfect. So, my mom and dad were married

63 years, and this is like a major shock to me.

I knew of an like two affairs that my dad had had. In my mind, I assumed they were one night stands. Didn't know that this this particular affair had gone on for years. >> How do you know this? >> He he spilled the beans to me.

>> Okay. >> Told me everything.

Um, it's been a total nightmare.

And the question now is, you know, he wants to move this woman into my mom's house, wants to marry her, and he said she is not interested in the

house, and that he'd be willing to sign

it over to my brother and I if we would

pay off his reverse mortgage.

This is a terrible idea.

>> Stay as far away from this as possible.

>> Really, I love this house.

>> I I know. But here's the thing. Every single part of the story has been about you and your pain is real and your heartbreak is real and the loss of your mom is real and finding out like secrets from your parents' marriage past is real. All that's real. >> Yeah. >> And you referred to his house as your mom's house. that that sentiment and that feeling is real in your chest. It's

not real on paper.

Okay? And so getting in the middle of his chaos, of his desperation,

of his I mean, he pulled out a reverse

mor like I I he's not he's not trustworthy is what I would say. And I'm not saying like he's had his past issues with infidelity. I'm saying he's not trustworthy. Maybe a better way to say that is he is not um reliable. He's

making very impulsive choices.

>> Yes, he is. But I can't lose this house.

>> Why not?

>> Is it because of the connection to your mom?

>> The thought of somebody else in there.

So, you're wanting to live in this house or are you just going to keep it one day and rent it out? >> Yes, I would keep it and rent it out.

>> So, some stranger is just going to live in your mom's house and destroy it.

You're okay with that? >> I would rather a stranger be in there than this woman.

>> This feels like now a vengeful tactic to just take the house so that he doesn't have it and this woman doesn't have it.

>> And you're not going to evict your dad, your 85-year-old father.

>> No. No. They would live there, I guess.

Like, right now, >> of course. So, you're the landlord >> of of this. Yeah. >> To your 85-year-old dad and his mistress. >> Okay. Can I can I tell you something? Can I let me tell you this, Nancy?

>> So, this is something that happened a few years ago. >> I um was move I was moving to a new house >> and I had all of these I was moving all my suit jackets back in my former nerd world. I used to wear suits every day >> and I had >> not well by the way. >> Not well.

Not well. >> I looked incredible. My wife actually says she misses um old suit and tiew wearing guy. not dorky teenager YouTuber guy, but that's that's a whole other story.

So, I have a jacket.

started working in higher ed, my granddad, the greatest men I've ever known, >> yeah, >> gave me an old tweed coat of his and said, "This looks like a professor coat.

>> Had the patches on the elbows and everything. It has never one time fit me

ever." >> And I always kept it, >> right? >> And I moved it house to house to house.

And I was going through clothes that don't fit and what doesn't fit and what works and yada yada. And I ran across this jacket. I smiled. I tried to put it on again for the 50th time. It still didn't fit. And I put it in the keep pile, >> right? >> And for the first time, I stopped and I

picked that jacket back up and I looked in it and I said to myself out loud, "My grandfather's not in this jacket." And I put my fist in my chest and I said, "He's right here." >> Right? And I put that jacket in the giveaway pile so somebody could wear it, >> right? I I I understand that.

Um I also >> Here's what's going to happen. I'm telling you right now, your emotions and your vengeance is going to get you in a situation that's going to be very uncomfortable to get out of. >> Right. this this house though, the property that this house is on, um it's

possible that somewhere down the line it might be worth more. Um there's a developer coming through and building homes. Um

>> do you want to be in the land development business?

>> No. >> Okay. >> And you're you're trying to justify it on the financial side and the emotional side, and I get that. But if we're going to talk finances, let's talk about the fact that you're going to lose the step up in basis. So, you're going to get your dad's original cost basis, which could mean a huge tax bill.

>> Okay? >> But if he deeds it over to you as part of an inheritance when he passes away, then it'll step up in basis. Meaning, if the house is now worth 500,000, you would inherit it at that price. But if you if he deeds it over now while he's still alive, what did he buy it for?

>> 50.

>> Yeah, probably. I mean, I >> And what's it worth now?

>> It's It's It was appraised at like about 500,000. >> Exactly. I would rather him do a prenup with this new wife of his. >> Okay. >> That says she can't touch any of his existing assets.

>> Okay. >> That's the better move. >> Okay. >> And he you inherit this house after he passes. That's the smart way to do it. I would work with an estate planning attorney and work through this whole thing with logic and facts and contracts

>> and try to remove yourself as best you can from the anger you're feeling which is understandable towards your father and his decisions. >> Okay. >> And I'm going to say something ugly but it's true. Okay. >> Yeah. >> This is not your home.

>> I know. >> Okay. And so the owner of the home can do whatever the owner wants. What you get to do is choose what type of involvement you want to have with his decisions. >> I know, but >> but what >> if my mom would want me to

>> have that house? >> Yes. >> Okay, then tell him that because George is right. I don't want you paying taxes on $450,000.

>> Okay, that makes sense.

>> I would much rather you get the house in full when he's done with it. or if he wants to sell it to you at 50,000 his original purchase price, maybe he can do that, I guess. But um and this is for everybody listening, emotions are real

and feelings are powerful and they're not designed to tell us the truth.

They're designed to keep us safe. And if you feel emotional about something, you're about to rush in, get some wisdom from somebody else who's detached from a situation so you can make the next right move.

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[Music]

Let's go out to Houston and talk to Donald. What's up, Donald?

>> Hi. >> How's it going? >> How's it going? >> I'm great. How about you?

I'm good. >> All right. What's up, man?

>> Okay. So, me and my girlfriend have been dating for five years and I'm looking to get engaged soon. So, I'm looking at engagement rings and I'm kind of between lab grown or a natural diamond. And it's the difference is a natural would be 70,000 and a lab grown would be closer to 10,000.

>> Run, bro. Are you blink twice if you're okay, Donald? >> Are you all right? Yeah, >> I'm okay. >> You okay? Whose idea was a $70,000 ring?

>> That's my idea. Definitely not her. She >> What do you make a year?

>> I make around $80,000 for my salary and

around $200,000 from uh my my dad's

business. I own some shares in it.

>> Wait, so you're paid 200,000 a year from those shares? Like dividends? >> Dividends? >> Yeah. 200,000 in dividends >> a year?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. very confused. Um, either way,

this is an insane ring. You know that, right? >> Yeah. >> Does she have expectations? Like, has this been the relationship thus far?

>> Oh, no. Definitely not.

>> Why would you do this?

>> Uh, I just >> This seems like a guy that has like a small sedan that drops it really low and puts a muffler that sounds like this on it. >> That was actually a great impression. >> Uh, hey, I only had that car for around five years. >> I knew you had one.

Why would you Why would you spend 70? Why? Why? What are you What are you trying to Who are you trying to prove what to?

>> Well, I don't know what to do with all this money I have. It's got a hole in my pocket.

>> Wow. Do you own a home?

>> No, I don't. >> Yeah, you should buy You should buy a ring for sure. Definitely. Instead of a home. That's a good move. >> Can you live inside of the ring?

>> Well, actually, I don't have any living expenses right now. I'm kind of living in a vacation home for my parents right now. And >> Okay. So money is money is a fake object

to you. It's just it's monopoly money >> essentially. >> So like you spending 70 grand like who cares? Not really my >> I don't believe you.

There's no way. You just have a million dollars in cash sitting in a checking account. You're like >> uh no. So it's uh around almost half a million in the S&P 500 between two different funds. I have around 250 in uh

high yield savings and around 300 in um

like uh kind of my I have an account in the business that gets used as um kind

of used as business funds. So I get paid interest off of that too.

>> Okay. Well, you're you're doing well for yourself. I don't know how much of it was on your own valition and effort, but I'm not I'm not mad that you have family money, but I do still think it's insane to spend $70,000 on a ring regardless of of your wealth.

Now, if you were like a billionaire, I'd be like, "All right, whatever." But you don't even own a home. You're living at mom and dad's vacation rental. And so, I think if I'm this woman, I would rather have a home than a $70,000 object on my

hand that I'm worried about every time I leave the house because I'm going to get murdered or robbed.

Yeah, man. Yeah. I I don't know. This isn't passing the smell test for me, but I I mean, if you have a million dollars laying around, brother, do whatever you want to. I just think $70,000 is insane.

>> You'll live to tell the tale, but uh she's going to keep it in the divorce.

Let me just put that out there. So, I just I have fears for the future of you two. I don't know how much she knows about your wealth and how much you've amassed, but I think you're you're setting an expectation that this is the kind of lifestyle we're always going to live no matter what. And that part worries me. >> Let's go out to Crystal in Chicago.

What's up, Crystal?

>> Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> You got What's up?

>> So, okay. I back in November, I was

involved in a car accident. I was coming home from work and this young man was flying down highway. He hit me, slipped me three times and you know fortunately I survived. >> Are you okay?

>> Yes. By the grace of God, I walked away with just a scratch on my hand and even hardly me anymore. >> Wow. Dude, I'm so glad you're okay.

>> Wow. >> That makes two of us.

So, um, from the settlement, so after I

got it with was $80,000, um, once the lawyers took their cut and the deals were paid, I was left with $32,880.37

and I had uh, uh, with my debt, $53,242

um, is what I owe out. But as of right

now, the deer that I had to purchase in

order to get from home to work just went out on me yesterday. Um, and I need a

car. I also need a new soft water soft

water uh system for my house. And I just

don't know what to do if I should save some of this money and pay toward some of my bills and pay toward some of my debt. >> Yeah. We we'll walk you through it.

George will walk you through the numbers. I just want to >> say this. I've never received a lump sum check for 80 grand, right?

>> Um >> but every time I've ever got a commission check or sold something and I'm holding money in my hand, the amount

of quote unquote needs I have multiplies

all over the place.

And so the temptation you have is to keep going back to that 80,000 number even though you're only holding 30 and to suddenly quote unquote need a nicer, newer car, need a water softening system, need new clothes, need um

savings that like you're going to need all this stuff and that money is going to evaporate before the day is over. And so the challenge you have before you is a very disciplined response. Not thinking like I won the lottery, but thinking I have a chance to get ahead, or not even ahead, but at least get caught up on how underwater I've been living my life. Thank God I'm alive and get another shot at this thing.

I'm going to do this version, right? And so, um, man, you got a shot here. So, George, you can walk us through it. >> Yeah, I would I would be force ranking the priorities.

Obviously, the biggest priority is getting out of debt, but you have a real need for transportation right now.

water softener and then the money's gone. And so I would get a reasonable car. If is this thing worth fixing? When you say beater, is it like, hey, 2,000 bucks in repairs will get this thing running for another two years, or is this a transmissions out and it wasn't worth much to begin with?

>> It wasn't worth much to begin with. It was I got it. Um it's a 2003 Honda

Accord and I paid 2,700 for it. I just

was trying to get something to get to and from work and I was and I'm not looking to get a brand new car. Not at all. But I was looking at um maybe 15,000 from like a CarMax or something, but >> I would say seven. >> I don't know. >> Seven. >> What do you make the most?

>> Um well, I I do pretty okay. My salary

is $95,852

a year. Um, but you know, I I have my

mortgage. I had I'm a single mom of one

and it just seems like everything every year I've had something major happen.

You know, both my parents pass >> and guess what? There's there's always going to be another thing that's going to happen. And that's why you should be paramount to get out of debt and get an emergency fund ASAP, especially as a single mom. >> You need stability more than anyone.

>> And so I would get yourself a reasonable car, $7 to $10,000. What is the the need

for the water softener? Is it a a health thing, a safety thing, or is it more of a want?

>> Well, no. Um, in the area in which we live, we we have uh more hard water. So,

it would just, you know, be for the washing of the clothes and to keep the pipes from rusting and things like that.

>> So, is this like a whole house filtration system like $4,000? What are we talking? >> Yes. Yes. So, I did get in touch with a

plumber and he was so kind. He was going he's willing to do it for me. Um 1,500

from start to finish.

>> Okay. Um, so I I have been kind of

looking and pricing that out. So in this >> So let's say 8,500 on a car for now, 1,500 on the water softener. That leaves you with 22 to throw at the debt, which brings your total debt down to about 21,000 or 31,000 left. What kind of debt

is that 53?

>> Um, overall outside of the house, it is student loans, credit cards, medical bills, and dental.

>> You got a whole bunch of poperri debt here and you're making six figures. And so we've got to figure out how to control the money that we have coming in and this inheritance will give you a boost, but it's not going to be the savior that you thought it would be. So we got to make a plan and I'm going to gift that to you. It's called Every Dollar.

It's a budgeting app that will change the game for you. So hang on the line. We'll send that over to you so you can get out of this mess and get some stability.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Hey, take two seconds and hit the subscribe button. Um, if you're watching us on YouTube or if you're listening to us on podcast or on one of the streaming services, um, just take a second and subscribe to the show. Like it, leave a fivestar review if you're feeling generous.

Um, those tiny little things, they don't cost any money. It takes two seconds to do it, but it makes a huge difference for the show. It kicks it up in the algorithms and the techno overlords like give it the show to more people. And um what the world needs right now is some hope and an actual plan to help with their money because we're not getting that anywhere else.

So just take a second, do that, and we'd be super grateful.

What's up, John?

>> Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. >> You got it, brother. What's up?

Well, I've got a bit of a uh goalpost I'm chasing. That's my uh the root issue. Uh kind of a long story short, my

grandfather. Uh >> no, hang football to be honest. >> I was trying to make a goal post joke. >> Tired of all this orange. >> That was well played, man. You're going to get struck by lightning for that, but okay.

All right. So, >> I know. >> Tell me about your granddad. Well, my my grandfather, he went to his forever home uh back in May and I uh I received the

inheritance and >> he passed away.

>> That's right. They said there's only one forever home and I believe that. So, >> that's where he's at. And uh I received about a $50,000 inheritance.

>> I'm also $50,000 in debt. I know the answer, the number answer is to just pay

off the debt, turn around and start saving up for a home. His wishes was to not do that. He wants me to use it to buy a home because he saw in his last,

you know, years how expensive homes are getting. And sure enough, yeah, if if he

if I would have received this two years ago, I would have been able to afford a home. But the homes that that would help me as a down payment on now are all decrepit and falling apart. So,

should I go ahead and get a house now and continue paying off debt with income

or do you guys think I'd be safe to wait another year to save that back up as a down payment and houses be even more outrageous next year?

>> Do you have a crystal ball?

>> Chasing a good Yeah. Uh, just what I've been watching. Um, my wife and I used to own a home back in 2019.

And that house, we turned around and sold it for double what we paid for it in only a couple years. And every house we could afford two years ago is now out of reach. So, it just it keeps going that way. >> So, you're you're right. There's two ways you can look at this, dude. You can look at it as regardless of situation,

um, you on the way home, somebody pulls out in front of you and hit your car and you break your leg and you've got medical bills and your grandfather said, "No, this money is for a house." And so,

like, no matter what, you can look at it that way and that's the letter of the law. It's what he said. Or you can get to the spirit of what your grandfather is trying to get for you, which is I want my grandson to have what? Peace. I want my grandson

to have a place where he can drop his shoulders and exhale >> to own something. >> To own something. >> Right now, the lenders own you, man.

>> That's right. >> And so that 50K, it does get you closer to the house if you use it to pay off debt. >> It frees you. >> Cuz what happens is we'll let's play it out.

You'll be the next caller on the show who goes, "Hey, I'm $50,000 in debt and uh I have a house that was way too much. It was way more than I could chew. I had no emergency savings. What do I do?

Should I sell the house or now I need a roof?" >> Well, that's not going to make grandpa happy either if you're broke and stressed.

So whether the money goes temporarily to debt payoff so that you can be in a position to buy a house or it goes to the house now, I think the better move is to set yourself up to where this house is a blessing and not a burden.

That's what grandpa wants. He just doesn't see your life as it is.

>> Did he know that you have 50 grand in debt? Do you know the financial stress you were under?

>> Yes. Um what it is is 40,000 of a

student loan, which my wife's getting her masters, so that's been interestree paused. Thankfully, her school is paying for the masters.

and then a $9,000 Toyota. That's just my worker commute. U but he he sees right

now I'm paying 1,500 a month in rent. He wants me to pay 1,500 a month for a house. One's an investment. One is paying my landladies mortgage. >> I know. But here's the thing. >> The math I understand, but the emotion >> one has risk and one gives you flexibility. And so right now renting is buying you patience cuz you don't need to cover all the repairs and maintenance and all the headaches that come along with it. And that's allowing you to focus on this debt payoff. What What's your household income?

>> Um, right now we're between 5,900 6,000

a month. >> And what are your total minimum payments on all these debts?

>> Uh, the 50k in the loan is paused, but it's going to be about 400 a month. The car is 200 a month.

>> So 600 a month is what you'll free up if you pay it off your debt today.

>> That's right. And then how much can you throw on top of that towards a savings to get this emergency fund in place and eventually a down payment?

>> Uh, probably about a thousand.

>> So your monthly expenses are about 5,000 a month.

>> That's right. >> And there's no wiggle room there.

>> There is. There is. I'm sure I could find another 500 or so >> cuz that tells me you're going to save at most 12 grand in a year.

Would you agree for a couple making six figures that's not super impressive?

>> That's right. >> So, what if we said, "Hey, we're going to free up 600 bucks plus save two grand a month." Now, we're talking that's 2,600 a month we're saving. That'll get you to an emergency fund and a down payment real fast.

>> Cuz what I don't want in the spirit of your grandfather's wishes is for you to wait and go, "Well, the housing market kept shifting. We never got that down payment. The housing market kept moving." And it takes you nine years to save up a h 100red grand.

You blame your grand you go buy a house you can't afford or in a situation you can't afford and then you're going to end up blaming your granddad on it.

>> Can I tell you what I'm hearing and you feel free to push back on me, okay? Cuz I'm wrong all the time. I'm okay being wrong. Is that okay?

>> All right. >> I hear a guy who is really pissed off at how expensive houses have gotten in the area where he lives. And I hear a guy who's really upset that him and his wife are doing pretty well. She's in grad school. You're making decent money. and

y'all can't even buy a house.

And there's an anger in you. There's an emotion in you that is shot you out of a

cannon and you're about to set yourself up for a huge mess.

>> That's why I'm calling in. >> That's right. Like, here's the thing. There's a there's you're the guy at the bar, man, and somebody just bumped into you, and you can set your drink down and

hit that guy and go to jail, or you can just walk out.

And I guess I me and George are the guy next to you saying, "Dude, let's just go. Let's just go and let's wake up

tomorrow and be like, "Dude, I would have totally worked in But you know what? You're not in jail. You woke up in your own bedroom." That's that's what we're saying, man. I want you to have a house. George wants you to We all want you to have a house. Your granddad wants you to have a house. But I promise you I

promise you your granddad did not want you chained to banks.

>> Absolutely. So if if the house represents freedom to grandpa, then you getting out of debt is the best thing you can do to actually get to the root of what he was wanting, which is that freedom.

That's what we're solving for. And can I be mad with you? It's it's it's it's it stupid >> that we've had these policies and we can go into them all day long, but that we're here where we are. that there's not enough houses for hardworking people like you and your and your wife that are that are cheap enough for you to get in and have a great life.

>> That's that's it's not what we all signed up for. And yet,

>> um I have a family member that basically lives in the desert whose house got flooded with that flood in Texas a few weeks ago. Like it's not supposed to happen. And yet here we are. So what we're doing is we're going to go pull all the sheetrock out and take all the kitchen cabinets over and start over.

And that's where you are, right? It's like it's I don't want this to happen. I You're right to be mad. You're right to be angry. But don't make the next wrong decision based off that that atmosphere.

Does that make sense?

>> Oh, it absolutely does.

>> Quick shout out while I got second. >> Do what, brother?

>> Do I wonder if I can give a shout out? Today's my 10y year wedding anniversary, and I know my wife's listening in. Want to say I love you.

>> It's amazing. Congratulations. And wife, listen to him. He's fighting for a house for you. He wants you to have a home.

And I know you're like, "Why don't we have a home?" He's trying. He's trying to figure it out. >> Fight with him. >> Fight with him, not not against him. And

I'm telling you, man, houses can be amazing when they're not a burden to you. And if you owe 50 grand in debt, plus you still got somebody in grad school, plus you go try to buy a house that you're barely going to be able to get into, it's just going to become a nightmare. Don't do it. Just wait. Let this frustration and anger don't force you into the wrong next decision, but force you towards we're going to go save up this money so we can get ourselves a house. [Music]

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[Music]

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And you may not be able to do this in all states. Today's question comes from Cararissa in California. My in-laws plan

to leave their house to all four of their children. >> Oh gosh, don't do that. Sounds simple.

Currently, three of the children live with them, including my spouse and me.

We are planning to move out in a few months as we're saving for a home of our own and hoping to start a family soon.

They've made it clear that to remain included in the will for the house, we would be required to stay living with them longer. What's your advice on navigating the situation both financially and relationally?

>> Fly like an eagle.

>> Yeah, I'm out. And for those reasons, I'm out. >> Yes. What a weird. You gotta live with

us longer to stay. >> Bye, Felicia. Bye, Felicia. Run, run, run, run, run, go, go, go. >> What does longer mean? >> That that just means I'm going to dangle

this dollar bill over your head and you have to do what I say. >> What in the toxic codependency is going on here, John? >> Not to mention, if you stay in this situation, four of y'all are going to have to fight over this house.

>> This feels like a terrible reality show.

>> It does. Yeah. It's like >> It's like Love Island.

no island or no no love.

>> You're stuck here now. Like, yeah. Um I would if this was me and my spouse, me and my wife.

>> Now, if this is a $5 million house and we stood to lose a lot, maybe >> I would have a contract saying all four kids agree that this house will get sold. Correct. Upon their passing, >> the moment it passes, right? >> Cuz no one's going to be able to afford to buy them all out.

So, that means we're all going to be living together in some sort of commune >> or we're all going to like pitch in money every month to keep it going so we can all use it. we're gonna rent it out and we're all gonna collect. No, that's complicated. >> I would do what's best, and this is part of growing up.

I would do what's best for me and my family.

with her husband, and we're going to make a decision on what's best for us.

And if it's best for us to stay right now for whatever reason, seems like there's a lot of you in that house, but if that's what's best for y'all right now, great. We're going to revisit it in three months. We already have the date on the calendar and the breakfast place where we're going to go meet and then we'll do it for another 3 months. Um, but I'm not going to let somebody dangling something over my head control my life.

>> It's that simple. The only part I like about this is that they at least have a will. >> I know. Good on them.

Good. Good for you getting a will. >> Having the conversation while they're still alive about what their plans are so there's no confusion in fights later on.

>> Yes. >> I like it that way. Right in front of you. And Dave always says that like if you're going to put somebody in your will or take somebody out of your will, have the courage to say it to their face.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. We just had to redo our will, you know, we did mirror wills that kind of pour over wills. And it was really it's it's crazy because you have these you have to have these conversations to talk to my in-laws and sister-in-law and brother and say, "Are you okay being financial power of attorney, medical power of attorney?

Would you take care of our kids if something were to happen to both of us?" And so the will is simple. The conversations can be difficult. Yep. >> But you got to have them.

It's so worth it. And I sleep better at night knowing it's done. Cuz here's the truth. Two of Americans die without a will.

Here's what that means.

>> Or as my friend John says, if you die without a will, it's because you hate your family. >> There it is. >> Because you hate your wife and kids or you hate your SP. Like, it's just >> have the courts, the lawyers, and the public enter the most personal parts of our life.

That's that's fun. So, don't let the government decide what happens to your state or even worse, your children. I want to challenge you guys to create your will in August if you haven't already. Or maybe you thought you did, but you're not sure or you kind of halfway did it, but it was never finalized.

Because in less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you.

And if you do find out that an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off. That's the best deal I've seen on this. Use promo code will month, that's one word, will month at checkout during the month of August. Go check it out. Ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz.

Promo code will month. Get it done. Just

get it done. >> Yeah. I I rarely say this, George. This is one of those few things that is inexcusable. Like I you know, I work with people with traumatized situations all and I there's behaviors that are are

are bad. There's actions people take that are detrimental to their life.

Usually, I can sit down with somebody and walk through it and say, "Okay, I see how you got here." Right? This is inexcusable. Get a will. Just get a will. >> Tomorrow's not promised. So, if you go, "Well, I'll do that later when I'm older." Quote a will. Get a will. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Do you have to have hard conversations? Yes. But get a will.

Let's go out to Ontario, Canada, and talk to Sean. What up, Sean?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> We're doing all brother.

So, uh, I am looking for a little bit of

advice here. I I'm about to start building, um, a house for my family and,

uh, we had originally done the plans up a couple years ago and we are are just

rethinking a few things. Uh, the original plan was to build a larger house to accommodate um, my in-laws to

be living with us. um they made a series of uh poor financial decisions in the past and we predict that in the near future they will most likely be living with us. However, um we were raised as

my wife and I were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses and we recently left that organization uh to follow Christ. Um her

parents and my parents don't agree uh with our choices and because of that we are we are obviously um if you know anything about that organization were shunned. Um, so they're kind of doing a soft shunting because I haven't been formally kicked out. I've I've I've made managed to keep that that way. Um, but

we are still just trying to plan for the the future because we're we're thinking they are still going to need a place to live whether they want our help or not.

Um, and I'm just wondering if we should be doing that or or if we should be uh

focusing more on building a smaller, more affordable house. Um uh and that kind of brings me to a whole the financial side. I we just sold our house. I I just actually finished building. Um and we're we got about

$400,000 profit from that. And I'm using that $400,000 profit to build the next house. Um and once that house is built,

it'll be worth about two uh two and a half million um depending on the market.

Um, the reason there's such a a large uh

return of on investment is because I'm physically doing all the work myself.

I'm not hiring out sub trades. So, we save a lot of money on that. Um, >> okay. So, let's get let's get to the question. We're going to run out of time here. Okay. Um, >> sorry. >> We'll get to we'll get to the finance question there if we can get to it. As for your your parents and your in-laws or or whatnot. Um, y'all are making a

some big suppositions about their life.

B, you are already pre-planning to the

tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars to help somebody that A hasn't asked for your help, B is appearing to not want your help >> and doesn't even want a relationship with you. >> Correct. And so what I would I'm telling

you, having done this, experienced this, had this conversation a jillion times with different people, sit down and have a grown-up conversation. You're a grown man. And if they can't have the conversation or won't have that conversation, then that is your answer.

Like literally, I am building a house.

We are considering adding a space for y'all to move in if and when y'all need to. Is that something you would be interested in?

>> So, it's not so much that I think that they would even be interested in it. Um, just from past experience, we we personally had to help them uh move out of their house that they lost. Um, and because we told them to stop doing what they're doing, uh, they they moved out of our house once they lost their house and moved in with um, my wife's grandparents. My wife's grandparents are

uh, aging and uh, once they're gone, I

don't know how they're going to afford to stay in that house. >> I know. I know. But listen to me, brother. You're you're trying to solve all of their future problems. >> Yeah. And they are repeatedly telling you, "We don't want your help.

>> We don't want it." >> Yeah. I I I I see what you're saying. I I just can't can't stomach not uh not

trying. >> I I get it. You see the train coming and you see them on the tracks and you're like, "Hey, get out of the way." And they're like, "No, we're good." >> And you've tried to push them off the track. You've tried to pull them off the track. You've tried to invite them off the track and they're telling you, "Leave us alone." >> Yeah. >> And so, if I'm you, I would probably put

some money in an account because I see the train coming and I'm at least going to have to help with the aftermath of this situation. Um, but I wouldn't add a

million-dollar wing to a property. Um, I'm not going to use their potential challenges as an excuse for me to be irresponsible in the present. In fact, it's going to look like entitlement to them to go, "Well, why fix our problems?

They are going to build us a house for free. Sweet deal.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend George Camel.

We're taking your calls on your money, your relationships, your work, and your whole life.

88 8255225.

Let's go out to Kentucky and talk to Jennifer. What up, Jennifer?

>> Hi. Good afternoon.

>> Good afternoon. What's going on?

>> Uh, I've been married about 20 years and we have three children. And when I brought debt to our marriage, I was told I should declare bankruptcy to get rid of the debt before we have children kind of instead of working together, which I did. And after the humiliation of bankruptcy and ruined credit, I didn't want to go back through that. And so I took financial peace.

Um, and I learned a lot. But I learned over time that my husband has a terrible habit of not being able to let go of physical property and things. And it has caused tremendous turmoil and stress.

at least one home taken. Um, we are

currently moved and our other house has

been on the market for a year and we have two mortgages about 600,000 in debt.

Outgoing is about 7,000. Incoming is about 5,000. It's so far beyond impossible. >> Yeah. >> So, you're going 25 grand into debt per year at this rate. >> That's just basic living expenses >> and just trying to keep up.

>> How many properties do you guys have?

>> Two. Only two. And one of them you're living in.

>> Yes. >> Why did the last one get taken?

>> Well, that was years ago. We've had one or two taken because he won't let it go and maybe tried to rent it out or wants to try to fix it up and sell it himself and it just doesn't necessarate.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. How has the house been sitting for a year?

because he wanted to try to sell it himself from another state and I was like, can we just let it go?

>> Where is the other property?

>> Um, in the Midwest.

>> Okay. All right. So, you said you said you said several things in a row. So, you've personally had gone through bankruptcy. Were you married with him at the time or is this a personal bankruptcy? >> We we had just um we we were married,

but we had our own He wanted to keep the finances separate, but I had debt and he wanted me to declare bankruptcy so we could have children. And I was like, "Well, can we work together?" And I'm like, "No, you need to do that." God.

>> And so I did. I did it. But then later when it was all these debt issues, I'm like, "Maybe you should declare bankruptcy. I don't know." And it's like, "No, no, no." I >> do. You guys still have separate finances?

>> It is together now, but I recently actually just opened my own account because I started getting really scared like what's going to happen if I don't put some money somewhere from my income.

But I don't like living behind a person's back either. Like if if you're married, figure out. I know, Jennifer, but y'all have been living apart for your whole marriage.

>> It's never really been together. Is that right?

>> Yeah, he was. Um >> cuz this isn't just money. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. This isn't just somebody isn't that absurd

that you will declare bankruptcy. That's a better option for us coming together,

you being bankrupt, than it is us working together to pay off our debts.

That in and of itself is such madness

that I know for a fact that doesn't just happen with money. That happens with sex and intimacy. That happens with travel.

That happens with where we're going to live. That happens with jobs. It happens with everything, doesn't it?

>> Yes. >> Yes.

>> Y'all haven't been together in 20 years.

Y'all created three amazing kids,

>> right? >> But y'all haven't been together in 20 years. And now you're scared to death.

Yes. >> Yeah. >> What makes up the 600,000 in debt? How much of that is the mortgages?

>> Um on majority of the mortgages, um um

probably at least maybe 550 because there's also a loan on the other house where he wanted to fix up the other house. >> He's got a heliloc on that or a home equity loan.

>> I honestly I don't know. I wasn't involved in that. I mean, my name's on it, but I don't I don't know. Yeah, of course your name's on it cuz he couldn't get the loan without your name on it.

>> So, your A1 is to get all the facts. And that means we're both going to pull a credit reports. You can do that for free. Go to annualcreditreport.com and just lay it all out. How much debt do we actually have as a family? Now,

what can we do to clean this up and focus on the consumer debt first while trying to list these properties? And he needs to be working with an agent. It sounds like these have been for sale by owner and he's just sort of figuring it out. Jennifer, can I ask you a person?

I finally just get to that point.

>> Uh, he finally did agree cuz I mean, if he didn't, it was over. I mean, but now we're all >> over our marriage.

>> So, this was an ultimatum.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, let me put it this way. Your old marriage is over. Period.

And what y'all are going to have to do now if y'all want to a stay married,

>> b stay sane, is y'all going to have to create a new marriage with a whole

different operating system.

And you're confident that he's in

>> started it, but then he went out of um out of state to go work to try to make some money to see if he can make ends meet. So we haven't been able to really do any of it together >> because he's gone. What kind of work does he do? >> Well, he's um a teacher, but he's been he also can remodel and do construction.

So, he's been working to remodel someone's house out of state.

>> There was no work in the entire state of Kentucky. There was no work for remodeling. >> Well, this opportunity came about because of a conversation with a friends of ours and they're like, "Hey, we're going to remodel this house on our property." I can do that. >> What do you make? Are you working?

>> I I am. Yes. >> Okay. What do you make?

>> Oh, goodness. I probably make maybe 2300

2600 a month maybe.

>> Okay. So, you're making like >> together >> $12 an hour. What are you doing for work? >> I teach. >> Okay. And you're both teachers?

>> Yes, but he makes a bit more than I do because I was home with the kids for a long time. So, >> Okay. Have you guys ever just sat down and laid out all the facts and created a budget and said, "Hey, this isn't working. We're not here to attack each other. Let's just make a game plan." we

did finally make one as we were starting a financial piece before he went out of town. Um but I mean and I thought okay

we're turning things around and hey I think you know we need to maybe change this and I don't want to do this again with the houses but then we even argue over like my car. We've argued over my car and multiple cars even of mine over the years that are not practical or not affordable. And it's like now it's at the point where it's at a level of miles and at a level of maintenance need where it's even more not affordable.

>> How much do you guys have in car loan debt? >> There's no car loan debt at all. None.

>> Okay. How much do you have in savings?

>> That's now gone. Completely gone.

>> Okay. So, we are at baby step zero.

>> Yes. So, with your next paycheck, can you put away $1,000?

>> No. >> And still cover the bills?

>> Is he bringing in money actively right now? >> No.

>> Well, I mean, he's he'll get paid from this job, but I mean, if there's 7,000 going out and 5,000 coming in,

>> I have no idea. >> Jennifer, let me let me just let me cut to the chase. He's he's

as soon as he he got you off his back,

he said, "Sure, honey. I'm going to do this thing." and he found the next job out of town and he took off on you

and he's hassling you over the phone.

He's spending money while he's gone.

>> No, he's really he's really not. He's really not. Um he's staying with the Yes, cuz these are friends and he's he's working from the time he wakes up until about 1 the next morning almost every day on their house. >> Okay. Maybe he maybe he has made this change and it's just not translating.

You all need a marriage counselor. >> You're on different planets right now, correct? and y'all have a huge financial

hole, but it's built on a house of a crumbling marriage. And y'all have to get that aligned if you're going to move forward. And as George said, you've got a math problem. And it may be that you got to find a different teaching job in a different district cuz you've got to deal with your income problem and you got to get some money and savings cuz you're in a very unsafe situation.

[Music] [Applause]

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Let's go out to the 512 in Austin, Texas, and talk to Elijah. What's up, Elijah?

>> Hi. What's up?

>> Well, I'm trying to currently get out of my car, but the engine gave out on me, and now I'm wondering whether or not to fix it or try to sell it off as is without the >> Oh, get out of your car. Get rid of it.

Not like open the door handle. I was like, man, you called the wrong show, dude. I don't know how to be Me and Jo George are not mechanically inclined.

>> Yikes. Okay, what's left on the loan?

>> 35,000.

>> Wow. And what's the repair cost

>> for a brand new engine? 16,000 and for a

rebuilt one 10,000.

>> Okay, let's go with the 10,000 number.

And how much do you have currently, if anything? >> I have a couple thousand. >> Okay. And what is the car worth as is?

>> I haven't checked on it in a while. So, I'm I'm probably sitting around 28.

>> Okay. And if you fixed it up, it's obvious you're underwater on this car.

>> Yes. >> Okay. What would it be worth if you got this engine repaired?

>> I haven't figured that out. >> Okay, I would figure those pieces out.

The key is you you don't want to make repairs uh if it's not going to ROI for you if the car is not going to be worth that in this situation. I think it would be worth it to do the repairs, but you can't afford it in cash right now.

>> Yes, I can. >> How much do you have exactly?

>> I have about like uh 2,000.

>> 2,000. And what do you make a month?

>> Around $4,000.

>> Okay. So, it would take you a long time at this point to save up that 10 grand to even do the repairs.

>> Yes, >> man.

I would at least find out what it's worth today and find out what that number is you're underwater on. You might need to take out a loan to to offload it and get out of the situation

alto together, but it's going to hurt either way. There's going to be a stupid tax to be paid. What kind of car is it?

>> Uh Ford Mustang.

>> And are you certain there's no recalls on it? There's no extended warranty or

there's nothing there's nothing under the like in the fine print there?

>> I I passed my warranty period by 2,000

miles. I'm sitting at 62,000.

>> I think it's worth reaching out to him.

>> I did that and I don't have anything >> really. Yeah, >> they just said, "We don't care about you." Here's what's amazing, George and Elijah. I was talking to um a guy came over early this morning to my house, was fixing my sprinkler, and he was talking about his engine blew up in a GMC, and he just I mean, he was heartbroken. He said um that his young son said, "Why is granddad's car truck still running?" And he said, "They used to have pride when they made these cars and they just simply don't anymore.

before earlier this year and I had to take out a loan for it with my credit union so I haven't

I've gone back to them to see if I I could take any more money.

>> I would at least check because I I'd rather see you instead of 35,000 in debt, 15 or 20,000 in debt. At least reduce your debt load and then you're still going to need something to drive around, right? >> Yes. >> You need a car for work?

>> Yes, I do. >> Man, you might need to just go on Facebook Marketplace and find the cheapest beater you can find that's still running and has cold AC.

And that might be your next step. But you're you're pausing the baby steps essentially. You're in a storm mode just trying to save up every dollar you can, working side hustles, trying to just get a beater so that you can still drive around, get to work to keep income coming in. Right.

>> Right. >> What are your transportation needs right now to get to work? Could you carpool, rent a car? What are your options?

>> Public transportation, >> family, help me out, and then I have time to just take Uber.

>> What other debt do you have?

I have uh credit card debt.

>> Okay. How much is that?

>> That is around

5,000. >> Are you living alone?

>> No, I don't live with family.

>> Okay. So, your expenses are super low, I

hope. >> Yes. >> What are your monthly expenses comparatively to your income? You make four grand. How much of that's going out to bills?

Is that a,000 bucks to cover your bills?

>> 2,000?

>> Yeah, it's around,000. >> Okay. What that tells me is within the next month, you should have $3,000 left over that can go towards this beater car fund. Correct.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I think your best bet is to just sell the car as is to a private buyer and get as much as you can for it cuz I don't know that that trying to fix it up and then sell it is going to be feasible for you in the foreseeable future.

>> Okay, >> but man, this this sucks. There's no easy answers here. I wish I had a magic just go to this website and it'll solve all your problems. The problem happened initially when a guy making 50 grand got a $40,000 Mustang. And so this this part

is hard to undo cuz this is the ramifications of that of what can happen is you go underwater on it. There's a repair issue. You have no savings. And so you're going to have to borrow from family for now and use that income of yours and get it up and try to get out of the situation.

And Elijah, let me tell you the good and the bad here. Okay. >> Okay. >> The bad is you're in for about 18 months of like being embarrassed cuz you're a guy that likes a nice ride, right?

>> Yes, I do. You're a guy that likes a nice ride more than he likes his own place. You'd rather live with your mom and have a nice car, right? Than than have an a nice apartment and drive a crumbier car.

And so this is going to be you for the next 18 months walking around town or driving around town or Ubering around town.

want to hang your head in shame, I want you to hold your head up high and remember this moment and say the words, "This will never happen to me again. I'll never put image. I'll never put what other people

think about me ahead of my own financial

safety ever, ever, ever again. Not for me, not for my family, not for anybody.

And then the good thing is this may be that moment that frees you forever from what other people think because that's where you got that's where you end up in this nonsensical mess, dude. And so that's my hope for you, man. That's my absolute hope for you. >> I'd also go do some more homework on a rebuilt engine. see if you can find one elsewhere for cheaper. Cuz if you can find one for 5 grand, now it's feasible.

You got 2 grand in savings, you'll make three grand in the next month to throw at it. This might be a solvable problem or at least limit the damage. U so I would do more homework before you >> every single mechanic in the Austin area and shake someone's hand and look them in the eye and say, "I'm in a mess. Can you help out?" Um, or can you can I

outsource this to one of your guys and just do this off book and I'll pay them cash, but I'm in a mess and I need I literally need somebody in my local community to step up and help me out.

And um maybe you'll get lucky and maybe

somebody will laugh at you and say, "Get out, get out of here." And you might do that 10 times, but maybe the 11th somebody will will um have mercy on you and say, "Yeah, I'll let this mechanic of mine work on it on Saturdays and Sundays here in the shop um for cash." Uh, I mean I I'm I'm just spitballing here, George, but um

>> the cancer of our culture right now, one of many, is I care what other people

think about me from the outside in instead of I'm at peace. I'm going to

I'm going to enter into the world that way. I'm going to drive around in a car that I can't afford. Um, live at my mom's house so that I can have this like I'm going to make all these other concessions so that I can have this nice thing. And then man, one thing goes wrong and I got to borrow money to fix this nice thing. And then now the nice thing explodes even further and it just we just see this time after time after time. House, car, um college loans with

the promise of a job on the other end.

It's just it's a constant drum beat we hear. >> Y >> um and it just breaks it breaks my heart for Elijah, man. >> Yeah. the the cars are the number one wealth killer. And when you do them with debt, it just makes that exponentially

painful and risky. And so, think about it. If you pay cash for a car, you can't be underwater. You can always sell that car. You have the title free and clear.

But when there's debt on it, there's a high chance you're going to be under underwater on it soon enough. And most people that take on car payments don't have a fully funded emergency fund to cover the repairs. So, put yourself in a good position. Drive what you can afford now.

drive like no one else now so you can drive like no one else later and I will die on that hill.

driving pretty crummy cars.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney.

So, John, I've got a YouTube channel and what we try to do is help people build wealth, especially young people who go, I don't want to wait till I'm 65 to enjoy my life. I get it. But we also know if you don't think about the future, plan for it, invest for it, then you'll never have money and you'll retire broke, which is not okay in America today. Cuz it's really easy to retire a millionaire.

And yet, most people don't. Is it easy, George? It's Well, here's the thing. The math of it is easy.

>> Okay, there you go.

>> How do I lose weight? Diet and exercise.

Like it's easy, but it's hard.

>> And as you know, as you know, it's harder to make progress.

>> There you go. Yeah. >> When you're 24bits, we all had abs at 24. >> Yes. >> Right. >> I mean, I was I I've always had a thing for gummy candies. Just saying. >> Okay, that's fair. But I thought it would be fun, and I've done this on my channel, is use our investment calculator to show you exactly how much you would need to invest based on your age in order to have a $1 million nest egg. Cuz here's the stat. Only 3% of US

adults have a million bucks saved for retirement. Nearly half of Americans have under 10 grand saved and 26% have

nothing in any retirement account. And some of that's due to, you know, living paycheck to paycheck. Some of it's financial literacy. But if you're listening to this show, listening to this segment, you now have no excuse.

You know too much to retire broke.

>> All right, bring it on. >> Here we go. So, we're gonna start with >> Save the Day, GK. >> Let's start with that 24-y old with that. A young Dr. John, brighteyed,

bushy tailed, ready to take on the world. And this is also assuming you're following the Ramsay plan, which means we're not going to take on crippling debt and car payments and student loans and credit card debt. But let's say you're ready to invest. We recommend 15% into into retirement. And we're going to even go lower than that. We're going to go 150 bucks a month from age 24 to age

62. Let's see what happens. I've got it pulled up. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see in real time.

We use this investment calculator on our website, which is free. We'll link it in the description. So, you have nothing saved. We're starting from zero, and we're going to invest 150 bucks a month, and we're going to assume an 11% rate of return.

Now, John, people are already they're angry. They're already typing comments on YouTube going, "Where's this guy getting 11% on his investments?" This is just historical data from the S&P 500.

you're going to see an average rate of return of 11%. So, we're going to use that as our number. And what do we find, John? 1 million bucks. And guess what?

68,000 of that was John's contributions.

964,000 was growth. That is the power of starting early. And you'll see what I mean as we move on to our next example.

Let's say you're 35. You have nothing saved. You got a hold of this plan a little bit later on in life. And let's also say you work a little bit later, 65, nothing saved in retirement. You would need to invest 375 a month, which again is not even close to the 15% parameter we recommend. Way lower. But even then, at 11%, you'll see you have just over a million bucks. But at this point, the growth was 916,000. your contributions were 135,000.

>> Is that real? >> That's real math. And here's the thing.

I love how math can be encouraging.

>> If 24 year old me put 150 bucks away

every month, >> that's it. 150 bucks. That's like Door Dash money. That's like all of your subscriptions combined for a month money.

It's really not that much. The problem is human behavior. We don't have the consistency, the discipline to just put away that money and not go spend it elsewhere. and we go, "Well, that's a problem for future John to deal with." 35-year-old John, when he's an adult and he's got like a family and stuff, he'll figure it out. Except we know that that's not how life works. >> I want to go back and just

>> give a whooping to 24y old me.

>> I know. I feel the same way. So, don't get discouraged. Let's move on to 45.

Or, you know what? Let's actually do 15%. Let's Let's look at that 35year-old who actually invests 15%. Average household income is $80,000 in America.

15% of that is a,000 bucks a month. All right. So, let's look at what happens when you invest a,000 bucks a month instead of 375.

2.8 million. So, for those of you going, "Well, John, a million bucks isn't going to be anything when I Okay, how about 2.8 million? Can we concede that's a lot of money no matter where you came from?" Good. >> And that's if you never get a raise.

35 to 65. 2.8 million if you invest a,000 bucks a month. Let's move on to the 45 year olds. a lot of people listening who went, "Man, I wish I could go back to when I was 35 and do this stuff." Let's say you're 45.

You have not a dime saved in retirement. Now, the truth is the math is going to differ here. You need to invest more to still achieve a million bucks.

which again is still about a six figure household income investing 15%. And you can see you can still retire a millionaire at 65 years old with a million bucks in that account even if you start from nothing at 45 years old.

>> I know, George, but here's the big thing you're leaving out my feelings.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Let's hear it. How do you feel about >> this? Just feels unfair.

I don't know. I was trying to say something. >> And now here's the other thing, John. People go, "Well, must be nice.

Who's got 1,200 bucks to invest?" And I go, "Hey, how much is your student loan?" "Well, that's 400 bucks a month." "Hey, what's your car payment?" "Well, that's 600 bucks a month." "Hey, what are your credit card minimums?" "What? That's 200 bucks a month. I think I found 1,200 bucks. >> Yeah.

There in lies the power and simplicity of the Ramsay plan.

>> When you don't owe people money, you have money left over. When you have money left over and you're willing to make sacrifices for future you, you will invest said money. So that's the big secret is live on lesson you make. Don't owe other people money. invest the surplus and you will be unbelievably wealthy. >> And that means in the short term, not to minimize it, you've got to be very intentional about driving the car you need to survive about um not

going out and figuring out ways to have people over to go out to the park. Is any of that cool? No. It's awful. And postponing in these days postponing buying a house for maybe 10 years longer than it took me to buy my first house, right? Like that's the reality. Those are expensive. Um but it is changing the

way TV and Instagram says you should be

living and saying, "Okay, based on this set of realities, we're going to live this way." And so we're going to figure out how to have a great wonderful life in in this in this little reality that

we live in. And my promise is if you can

choose to live in that, you can choose to find joy and laughter. And um yeah,

it is what it is, man. Well, what's crazy is is to be truly wealthy, it has to be invisible to others. Nobody can see the balance of my 401k, but they can see what what's in my driveway.

>> That's the problem is we get way too excited about the thing going down in value in our driveway instead of the invisible number happening in our in an account somewhere in a 401k because it doesn't feel real and it doesn't affect our life right now. But the idea is we're still using either one of those proxies as some sort of value statement on what we're worth instead of doing the harder work on our spiritual lives, our relational lives, our um our emotional

and and and mental health to say no, I've got value just because. And I'm going to go do the next right thing for me and my family where we want to be when we're 65 years old. And I don't want to be like this other family. I don't want to have cut off my kids due to value differences and then have to go beg them to build us a wing in their new house, right? Like, so we have to reverse engineer where we want to be at 65 and just choose that reality.

>> Yeah. Do you want to be a financial burden to your family or do you want to leave an inheritance to your children's children? >> Right. >> You get to choose. >> But that choice, as far as that calculator goes, that choice begins at 24. That choice begins at 35.

>> Yeah. Building wealth in 2035 starts in 2025. >> I think that's an important thing. That's the hard part to grapple with because we live for today.

Everything is just this ephemeral quick hit that we need as we scroll social media and the calculators, you know, only so many people get excited about a calculator. I love a good calculation. I love a good spreadsheet. >> One time you and I were at a punk rock show and you're like pulled out one of your earplugs and you're like, "Hey, hold on.

Check this out." And you're like doing facts and figures in the mosh pit. It was pretty >> That's true. I stay away from the mosh pit as a guy who's short. It just most people's elbows are right where my face is.

So, it's not ideal. Not ideal.

hope that encourages you. And listen, if you're 50, you're 55, even if you're 60,

yes, it's going to be harder, but you have catch-up contributions. Hopefully, you're making more than you ever have made in your entire life. So, there's still time to retire with dignity. And I can even show you, John, from 50 to age, let's say, 67, you're going to have to work a little bit longer. You start with nothing. You invest a,000 bucks a month.

You can still have $600,000 if you start at 50 with zero dollars.

So, let that be an encouragement to you.

You don't need to have a $20 million net worth, but there's also no reason to retire broke and hope that social insecurity covers the bills. Cuz if you've listened to the show long enough, you know it doesn't. I don't want you to be that person. You can do better.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead. Join one of our free every dollar trainings. They are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities. Me, Jade, Ken, George, even Rachel Cruz.

>> Wow. >> We're going to show you.

>> Wow. >> I was impressed. >> I know. We're impressed, too. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find up to 9,000 bucks of margin using Every Dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any of the questions you'd like during the live Q&A. Sign up for free at ramseysolutions.comweinar.

Let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina, and talk to Elizabeth. What up, Elizabeth?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? Thanks so much for taking my call. >> You got it. What's up?

>> So, um, I started listening to the podcast back in April because I was just really sick of being in credit card debt. >> Welcome to the cult, Elizabeth.

>> Welcome. >> Yeah. So, um, and I just I wasn't being able to save money like I wanted to. So, I'm in baby step number two. I made my first budget and I can start seeing like where I was completely overspending and so I can cut back. But, I'm 51. I'm

married. I have an 11-year-old daughter.

I've got about $20,000 in credit card debt and I am trying to attack this debt

and but I can't stop making myself contribute to my 401k and her 529

because I feel like I'm not doing what I can do to help us prepare for retirement and her school as she gets older. And so

I just I'm just having a hard time following the baby steps in order and just not kind of need some help trying to make that make sense in my head because I just really want to get rid of this credit card debt because I just feel like it's just hanging over my head and I just hate it. >> So you want us to persuade you to pause investing altogether to get out of debt faster? >> Yeah.

already but it's just you know I just I feel like I would have to pause for a really long time and I just feel like I would put us behind. >> What's your total debt? How much total consumer debt? >> So right now um I've got about $20,000

in credit card debt. We own our cars. We

have a mortgage um left and a home loan

that's got about 67,000 on it and we have about 97,000 left on our mortgage.

>> So you have a second mortgage.

>> We Yeah, we took like it was like it's not a heliloc but it was like a a personal home loan that we took out.

>> So the consumer debt is a credit card debt of 20K.

>> Correct. >> So that's the focus. Is that across multiple cards?

>> Yeah. Uh two cards. >> Okay. And what is your income? What's your gross household or your your gross income that you're investing off right now? Um uh it's about $50,000 after taxes. >> What about before?

>> Um it was um it hovers because I I kind of do a base salary and commission.

Okay. >> So it's usually about like 57,000 I would probably say. >> And how much are you investing as a percentage right now? >> Um I was doing 15%.

>> Okay. >> So about $300 a paycheck.

>> So right now you are investing 300 bucks a paycheck and you get paid twice a month. >> Correct. >> So about 600 bucks is what you'd free up. >> Correct. Have you calculated how much interest you're paying on that credit card debt every single month?

>> Uh, one's 19% and one's 15%. So,

>> so are you doing the math at home?

>> Compound interest works both ways.

>> So, here's what you're really doing. You're basically borrowing money to invest.

>> Think about that. Would you go into credit card debt to the tune of 20% APR in order to put 15% of your income into retirement >> to make 11% return?

No, >> that's essentially what we've done and what we continue to do. And the other part of this is you haven't found momentum. I mean, you're 51 going, I got to clean this up. I got to invest for the future. You're trying to do 17 things at once and you're not making progress. So, at this current rate, how long would it take you to pay off your credit card debt while you're doing these other things?

>> Uh, probably like I would say two or three years, probably. Would you agree that it sucks to be paying 20 grand of credit card debt over 3 years?

>> Yes. >> So, what if we said, "Hey, we're going to buckle down for less than a year. In less than 12 months, we're going to be out of this debt. We're going to get an emergency fund." Which when's the last time you had a fully funded emergency fund? >> Uh, probably never. I've got the $1,000, but never the fully funded emergency fund. >> Picture that future for Elizabeth. 18 months from now. You have no debt. You owe nobody anything except the mortgages and you have a fully funded emergency fund. How good would that feel?

>> It would feel great because I have anxiety about it all the time. >> Okay. Can I Can I um go one step further? >> Sure. >> You How much of a gangster do you want to be right now?

>> Uh I will I would like to be a big one.

>> Big- time gangster. >> So, you're gonna you're going to drink two ladles of our cult Kool-Aid right now. You ready? >> Okay. I want you to sit down with your 11-year-old and I want you to Is it a boy or a girl?

>> It's a girl. >> I want you to tell her, "Mommy has a 529 account, which is where I'm saving for college for you, but mommy borrowed a

whole bunch of money on these things called credit cards that are no good.

And I'm going to pause putting money in for college, and I'm going to get this cleaned up." Because here's what I'm hearing in you.

I'm hearing a a a a weight a like a like

a ruck bag full of

weight full of bricks of shame.

>> Yes. >> You're a good mom.

In fact, you're a freaking amazing mom.

Okay.

And the reason I want you to sit down with your 11-year-old because um shame

eats secrets.

That's how it grows.

And so, I'm going to sit down my 11-year-old and say, "I made some choices early on, and I've learned new things, and I'm sorry. We're going to have this much money. We're going to have less than that now, but your mommy is working really hard with dad, and we're going to be free." And your 11-year-old will go, "Uh, okay. Can I have some chips?" And you'll be like, "Yeah, that's fine." But you'll you'll know for you, I sat down and stared this thing literally in the face and put on the table.

This is who I am. I made some mistakes financially. I have, George has, Dave has. we all have.

And so I'm going to own that and I'm going to go do the next right thing.

19% to make 11 for some future version

of you because you feel ashamed in the present doesn't make sense on any level.

>> Right. >> Are you doing this alone, Elizabeth?

>> No. I mean, like I said, I just kind of found everything and so I'm my husband

is on board because he's feeling the same way. Um, but >> is he doing the same thing? is does he also make money? He's also investing.

>> Yes. >> What does he make?

>> Um he makes um after taxes probably about 81.

>> And what debt does he have? Is he not helping pay this credit card debt off?

>> No, he's we we had we've had we're trying to combine everything right now.

We had everything separate.

>> Okay. What is trying to combine look like for you guys? Um, we are basically

opening, we opened up a new account and we're basically getting everything set up to go into that account and be coming out. >> Good. >> Like this, which is >> He makes 81, you make 57.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you guys make like $140,000 a year.

Isn't that crazy?

>> Yeah. >> Like the gross number that flows through your hands per year is astounding. And

so you can knock out 20k of credit card debt real fast making 140 grand.

>> Yeah. >> Because you're are you bringing home like eight grand a month as a couple?

>> Uh yes. >> Okay. Think about that. >> Got it. That's what I kind of figured out. >> Could you live off four and throw the other four credit card debt?

>> Um >> because that's five months you're debtree. That's just the math.

>> I think I think I I think we could.

We're just, like I said, we're we're did a budget and we figured out where we're overspending and so I think we probably could. We're just going to have to work on it. >> All right. So, Elizabeth, I'm I'm willing to put some skin in the game if you are. Are you in?

>> Yes, I am. >> How allin?

>> I'm all in. >> All right. Here's the deal. If you promise me you're 100% allin, >> we're going to send you Financial Peace the digital course. I want you and your husband to watch online lessons, not just a bunch of YouTube clips. Okay.

>> Okay. Okay. Number two, we're going to hook you up with the Every Dollar app that y'all can use together and connect it to your bank account for a year, the premium version. Okay.

>> Okay. >> You promise you're going to use them both? >> Yes, I will.

>> If you will make me a commitment that you two are because this is going to require redoing how y'all do your marriage, right? >> Right. Exactly. If you'll commit to this, I'll give you and your husband two seats to my Valentine's Day uh marriage retreat here in Nashville, Tennessee with Rachel Cruz at the Money and Marriage. >> Oh, wow. That would be amazing.

>> Are you in? >> Yeah, I will be in. >> It's Valentine's Day weekend. It's a Jill. It's a It's expensive ticket and you all can come to Nashville and come to the retreat on me if you're in.

Promise. >> I I would love that. Thank >> the stakes are high. >> Game on. Game on. I I put some my cards

down the table. Now it's your turn.

Can't wait to see you in February during Valentine's Day weekend. This is the time you change your life.

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[Music] Live from Nashville, Tennessee, it's the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Campbell, taking your calls from all over the planet on your life, your money, your relationships, your work, whatever you got going on in your life.

We're here to sit with you and help you figure out the next right move.82552.

888255225.

Let's go to the state of Kentucky and talk to Bethany. >> It's actually a Commonwealth, John, the Commonwealth of Kentucky. What's up, Bethany?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. I'm excited to get your perspective on my situation today.

>> Go for it. >> Um, okay. So, I um I'm a married mom of

three kids, married to my best friend.

We are very blessed. Um, financially, we're in a good spot. We have about a $2 million net worth. Um, we've worked very hard, you know, ever since we got married 18 years ago. Um, and both of us have always worked full-time. So, you know, early on in our relationship, we talked about goals and, you know, I never had a goal to be a stay-at-home home mom or to work part-time. Um, but

then things change and so now we're finding ourselves in a place where um, our oldest is about to go into high school and I think for me it's like the mom guilt of I don't have time to really

spend quality time with my children. Our youngest is seven. And so I'm seeing, you know, the perspective of a teenager and then a early elementary student. And I'm just seeing it all just kind of play out so quickly. So, I want to stay at home more. And my husband has kind of

come to where he's like, "Yeah, it's fine." But I know he's just saying it's fine because he wants to make me happy and I want to make sure I'm not being selfish, I guess, in my desire to be at

home more. Um, because it's not really

our goals. I guess it's more like my goals have changed.

>> I I think so. >> I think you're going to get yourself into trouble or it's you're ripe for resentment.

for both of you. And that's that's a place in a relationship that's very very hard, if not impossible, to come back from.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'll tell you, your your your goals are noble and they're great. And your husband's goals, whatever they are, I'm certain they're noble and great. He's not on the phone, so I don't know what his goals are. I'm more concerned that this is the part, let me say it this way, the number of students who came to my university wherever I happened to be working and got dropped off and that was the day their parents split up was was I can't count them all. And it started with little moments like this.

>> Yeah. when I start building my life, you start building your life. And suddenly you wake up and that that kid of yours that's in elementary school is going off to college 10 years from now and you realize we are on two different planets.

And so what I really would love you all to do is to >> like circle all the way back and say, "Hey, who do we want to be?" >> And I'm with you. I got a 15-year-old that I'm working every day of my life to not pre be sad that he's going to be gone in three years. Cuz I literally love having him around. Like not just he's my kid.

I love the kid around. He's hilarious. He's fun. All that.

And then I have an elementary school daughter that I can't wait till she go. I'm glad she's here, too. But like like um I'm right in the same spot with you and my wife and I are doing the exact same thing right now. Like who do we want to be in this many years and how do we reverse engineer that right now?

>> Yeah. >> Why doesn't he want you to stay at home?

>> Well, so it's not that he doesn't want me to. It's just I think he makes comments like, you know, I kind of expected you to want to do this when they were younger. You know, he's like, why now? And for me, it's, you know, I want to be able to, I guess, cook a cook

a good meal. And, you know, instead of we're constantly picking up fast food.

>> What is he actually worried about? >> Yeah. What's he saying? Because that's a that's a that's a grenade he just pulls a pin on and hands you.

I just thought you'd be somebody different 15 years ago. >> Yeah. Well, and I think it's because, you know, we've always talked about it and it's always been, and here's where I think it's coming from. Neither of us come from a family that had a mom who stayed at home.

Both of our moms worked full-time. >> Okay.

>> I mean, no. >> Okay. So, the whole So, that model doesn't work. Doesn't matter.

>> Yeah. >> Y'all are creating something completely new. >> Is he worried about money being tight?

What's actually behind it? >> No, I don't. I don't think it's as much money being tight as it is the example we're setting for our kids because he he said things like, you know, >> so he thinks because my mommy worked, that was a great example for me and if you stay at home, it's going to be a bad example for our kids cuz they're going to realize that having mom around is awesome. What's the what's going to happen? What is he really scared about?

The kids are seeing the best example that this is what happens when you set yourself up for freedom, margin, flexibility, and options. We get to have a present mom who's not stressed.

>> We get to do we get to do we get to do whatever we want, >> having great experiences. >> You were about to say something. What were you saying, Bethany?

>> Well, I was just going to say, so um you know, the oldest has,

you know, childhood memories of me working full-time. the youngest, you know, is kind of in that age where she's just going to really, I guess, her memories are just kind of starting to get shaped. You know, she's at seven and so I think his his concern is, you know,

the oldest had a working mom. I don't know how the youngest will perceive >> and I mean, I get what y'all are saying.

>> That's nonsense. I'm telling you right now, that's not Let me Let me tell you how kids memories work. They work nervous system out.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And so a kid is going to um have encoded in

their body literally this was a safe place to be or this was an unsafe place to be. >> I was loved and it was warm and it was a it was my home base or it was a place where I had to have some sort of mechanism to control for safety. I had to perform. I had to get straight A's. I had to punch a hole in the sheetrock. I had to get between mom and dad. Whatever. That's that's what they they're encoded for.

And so if mom and dad were united working together because they both came from situations where money was tight and tough that your oldest kid is going to benefit from a united mom and dad who are working towards a goal.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm going to be honest, the data tells me your oldest kid missed out on some stuff, too.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And your 11-year-old is going to

have a parent at home, >> but is also going to be encoded in mom and dad sort of split up little by little >> in the living room. That's that this idea that like my wife talks often about how my son would come visit her and her when she was a professor. My son knew my my wife as Dr. Deloney. My daughter doesn't >> and she laments that. But I'm in no way

are we going to put that on the kids.

>> Yeah. >> Right. You get what I'm saying?

>> I do. >> Your husband may not like you being a stay at home mom. What are you going to do all day? And if that's nonsense that's going through his head, y'all need to sit down and have that conversation. But to blame it on the kid, well, what's the kid going to think of you? That your 11-year-old doesn't get a vote.

>> She's 11. >> And I think I think I can see the value

that I would bring in staying home more because I'm a mom. And I think because

I'm a husband I'm a dad and I see that value. >> Yeah. >> You don't need to pitch this like a shark tank. >> Yeah. Dude, you're not trying to convince us. >> George's wife just resigned a couple years. Was it a year and a half ago? >> Yeah. She was a rockstar executive here uh executive assistant here at Ramsey.

And after nine years, she decided I'm going to stay at home with my family. >> You don't have to convince us. And my wife has worked and she'll go back to like So it's not like a it

Yeah. Yeah, y'all need to sit down and get aligned cuz I think my my gut tells me this is a way way deeper issue, Bethany.

>> Okay, >> that in fact, I'd almost guarantee it.

He's got a picture in his head of what life's going to look like and he may have respect issues that he's passing on to your kid, whatever. You need to get to the bottom of those things and come out as as a united front.

>> This is not about the kids. >> Yeah. This is about you and your husband get on the same page for what kind of life do we want to have and who do we want to become? Start there.

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It is a weird time in the real estate market and buying your or selling your home, it's a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines, conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month, about $441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit a million for the second month in a row.

So, there's a lot more supply out there, and it's really turning into a buyer market. Buyers have more options, more negotiating power, and sellers face some competition. So, the average 15-year fixed rate held steady at around 6% last month. So, if you're debtree, you got a fully funded emergency fund, you have a solid down payment, now could actually be a great time to buy or sell your home.

moment.

>> All right, let's go out to Maine and talk to Chuck. What up, Chuck?

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Good. What's up with you?

>> So, um I've got about 260 and change in

my um Roth IRA and we owe 255. My wife

and I owe 255 on our primary residence and I was just about to pull the trigger on paying off the primary residence with the Roth from the Roth. Um I'm I'm 60 so there's no problem with any penalties or anything or any kind of any taxes. Um and then all of a sudden a house popped up that um we're thinking about buying for my daughter our daughter uh and her husband. My daughter is special needs.

She's um autistic, high functioning um and he's also autistic and high functioning. But they they are the jobs

that they have. I don't think that the income that they can make, I don't think they're ever going to be able to buy their own house. So, a couple years ago, we said we'd buy them a house, but we were going to be three years out from doing that because some other things, but now this has popped up. So, we're trying to figure out, do we pay off our own house or do we try and pull the trigger on this one?

>> How much other money do you guys have in retirement?

>> So, we're doing really well. Um, we've got my wife has 184 in her Roth. Um,

I've got 880 in a um in a rollover IRA

and regular IRA, traditional IRA, and my wife's got 130 in her in a 401k. So,

we're doing really well. Um, and we've got two other we've got um a primary house, we've got a second house in Arizona, and we've got two rental properties in Arizona. >> And those all have mortgages, or they paid for? >> Um, they all the houses have mortgages.

Um, but uh they were they're worth way

more than what the the mortgages are.

>> Okay. I mean, on paper, you are doing really well. I think there's more risk here than you think because things are going okay right now. So, I would just caution you to not just throw money in random directions. I would love for you guys to be able to retire with no debt whatsoever and then reassess the situation. So, for your daughter, uh what is the urgency to get them a house right now? Can they rent? Can they afford that?

>> Um, not they can rent, but um I think

it's more of just if something happened to us, we want to make sure that they've already they're already in a house and and they're taken care of and they just have to take care of the taxes and insurance. >> Did one pop up in your neighborhood that's going to be about that 260 and you think you can just cover it? Well, it would be it would be like in in this

area it's like 380, but um so we would put two we would uh put 260 down or 230 down, excuse me, and then have a mortgage for 6 months and then when my wife hits 59 and a half, she would tap her Roth and we'd pay the balance off.

>> Can I tell you um a rule of thumb I use for my house? There there's this is just a a rule in the Delhoney house. Anytime my wife and I are faced with an eitheror

decision, we force ourselves to put two or three or four other options on the table just to see.

Cuz almost every bad decision I've made in my life, it was either this or that.

And I forced myself into a false binary decision here. And so right when you're talking, the first thing that popped into my head was, what if you did both?

What if you sold one of those properties in Arizona, you paid the other one off, used your Roth, paid your house off, and then you got your kids into a $320,000 house? You can do it all and not have to

play the shell game anymore.

>> 100%. The only issue is we've lost that on houses here that around here houses are 500,000. I mean, little tiny little postage stamps, 1,000 square feet are 500, 600,000. It's crazy.

Um, and this one popped up at 380,000 square feet and it's 15 minutes from us for >> No, no. I mean I mean you can you might not do it in that order, right? You might put 260 down on it and pull your Roth and put 260 down on it and and then put your other house on the market. You'd have to be disciplined to do those things.

Um, >> oh, I see.

So that makes complete sense. But um what's going on is the other the second house in Arizona um it uh if we sold

that right now there would be um capital gains on it. We were planning on living in that house for 2 years so we wouldn't have to pay capital gains on selling that house. >> And you you've created a real complicated situation for yourself with this long distance. No, we can't do that cuz we have to live.

So we're going to have to move our entire life out there and find double stamp. Yeah. Pay taxes and move all your life. >> We're not doing We plan on doing that anyway.

We're trying to get out the winners and split toast. So, we're going to do that anyway. >> Okay. >> I I'm I'm a fan of just living a simple life.

Um, and I want you guys debtree before you go gift a house to your daughter.

And so, that plan might need to wait. I would personally liquidate the property.

Pay the taxes. I wouldn't play the game that you're playing personally. And I would just simplify it. Have no debt because right now you're saying, "Hey, things are going really well. Sounds like you have a million dollars of debt floating around out there at the same time, right?" Um well, we've got 1.8 in

real estate and um we've got 900 in

equity. So, yeah, that's about right.

>> There we go. And so, it looks good on paper. You guys have an incredible net worth. You've done very well.

I'm not worried that this whole thing is going to implode, but I do think you're burning a lot of brain calories that don't need to be burnt. And I would just liquidate. I I wouldn't I'm not a fan of being a long-distance landlord.

>> All right, so we'll lose that with this opportunity, but there'll be other opportunities. >> There's always See, that's the thing with the real estate game. People like they're like, there's always going to be another opportunity. There's also an opportunity to just simplify and not go chase down another real estate thing and just retire when you want to instead of work because you have to cover 900.

>> Can you retire as a millionaire? have and and let's be honest, the your daughter's challenges that's been on like you've you've been under that squat rack like that's been a heavy weight for you for a long time, right? Her whole life.

You have an opportunity to live 15 minutes down the street from her, both of y'all in paid off houses. You're still a millionaire. You don't have to deal with property managers six states

over. Like there just is this idea of solving for peace. And a lot of times when we have chaos in our lives that we can't control, we spin up chaos other places so that we can play whack-a-ole with different variables and feel like we're doing something, but we often realize when we step back, we just got stuck in mud and we just hammered the gas. So it felt like we were going somewhere. You get what I'm saying? >> Pay off our Yeah, absolutely. So pay off our primary house first.

>> Yes. >> I would be And then I would sell one of those real estate those places. I would get your daughter a house. I do love that idea of debt freedom, man.

So sell a property, whatever. You could snowball it. If all the properties are in similar mortgages, you could just snowball it smallest to largest if that's I would go personally go primary first because that's the house I live in. So I want the least amount of risk there and then go about the business of selling one paying off.

>> Let me ask on on behalf of of Chuck here. Uh George, I don't personally have a problem if he does this out of order if he does over the next 90 days.

So >> you don't have any consumer debt, do you Chuck? Just the mortgages. >> Yeah. If you if you want to go >> put 75% down on your daughter's house down the street because you're only going to float that mortgage for for a month while you get this other house paid off.

I I don't personally have a problem with that. Um unless you're going to it's going to actually liquidate the whole Roth then >> because you have a way to do all of this without liquidating that Roth, too. But I don't know. It is what it is, man.

I >> you're still taking about a third of your nest egg and depleting it and putting into real estate. And so that's something to just weigh. I would personally work with a financial planner. Do you have a good financial adviser?

That's the big question. And if you don't, I would jump on ramiesolutions.com, Chuck, and click on Smartvestor Pro, and they can lay it all out for you more than we can in a in a quick show. >> All right. So So George, if this is you, how what direction would you do it?

And what order would you? >> I would sell my least favorite property today, >> put on the market today, >> pay the taxes, use the profits to pay off my own mortgage, and then see what happens from there. Do I need to sell one more to get daughter a home? Okay, let's do that.

That's more.

>> There's always going to be another opportunity. And truthfully, in every opportunity, you go, "Oh, we didn't know that it had mold issues. That's why it was priced so low." There's always something around the corner. So, I would do your due diligence, do your homework, and realize there's always going to be another one.

[Music]

[Music]

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Let's go out to Savannah, Georgia, and talk to Emry. What's up, Emry?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> You got it. What's up?

Well, we are we have a lot of debt and we just kind of shifted our thinking the last couple months. We've been Dave Ramsey fans our whole marriage. We got out of $30,000 of debt 10 years ago, but then started going down the slippery slope. My husband's about to be 40. I'm 37 and we have three young kids at home.

Um we have two rental properties. One's on the market right now in the Nashville area. Uh we owe 170 on each and they're

worth about 310 to 320. We're hoping to get one at a time. My question is what

to do with the profits.

>> Are you just selling one or both?

>> We are planning on selling both but one at a time because they're in the same neighborhood and they would compete with each other. >> Ooh. Fight.

>> Y'all should pick one. You get one and he gets the other and y'all should compete. What caused you guys living in Savannah to get two properties in Nashville? >> We used to live in Murphreey'sboro and my husband went to MTSU.

>> Oh, so you became landlords by default.

>> Yeah. >> Not by choice. >> We worked the system. We had the VA loan. We lived in it a year, moved.

Lived in a year and moved. So, we thought this was going to be a great source of income over the years. It's been great, but we're kind of I'm wanting to get out of it because I manage it primarily and we went into

debt turning one into a furnish rental last year and renovating it. So, we have about $24,000 on a credit card left from

that. We've paid about half of it off.

It used to be over 45, but we still have 24 left and we want to get rid of that.

Um, we have 31,000. We have 31,000 on a

car loan and we have our primary mortgage which is 292 left. And then we also have business loans. So my husband moved here and he started a land clearing business and so

we have two loans with the business.

We're in our third year. >> How much business debt?

>> We have an SBA loan of uh that's 10 10

and a half uh variable. It's at 170

right now. And then a machine loan at 90,000. >> Goodness gracious. >> Holy smokes. So you're in the go into the government for almost 200 grand and you're on a depreciating asset to the tune of 90 grand.

>> Yeah. But they make us a lot of money.

We're in our third year. Last year we he

grossed 330,000.

So he's doing really well. He's a sole proprietor. Really? >> If he's doing really well, why aren't you guys doing really well? >> Yeah.

You're in crippling credit card debt bragging about how much money this business makes >> and you owe $200,000 to the government.

>> So I'm if I'm tracking correctly, you owe 315,000 from this consumer and business debt.

>> Does that sound right?

>> The consumer business debt, the 170 and the 90 >> credit card debt, the car loan, the business debt.

>> Yeah. Plus the mortgages on the rentals.

That's why they're on they're for sale >> right now. We want to get out of it and we want to cash out. We really want to start fresh. >> Sure. No, we got you. We got you. We're just We're >> So, you're going to walk away if you sell both rentals, you'll maybe walk away with like $240,000 profit,

>> I guess. Yeah, about that. And then, you know, capital gains and all the >> Okay. >> the capital gains and stuff. >> So, let's say there's 200 grand. What would I do with 200 grand?

>> Yeah. >> I would throw it at the consumer debt and the business debt using the debt snowball because that business debt is your debt. You guys personally signed the dotted line there. So there's no like LLC that owes that. It's just you guys.

>> Yeah. So they throw it at that.

>> Yeah. >> And me personally, I'd George, tell me if I'm wrong. I would want to get the government off my back ASAP.

>> Is that wrong? Or do you want to pay off the >> Yeah. I mean, if you snowballed it, most of it most of that debt is going to be gone and then it'll leave you with the

that Is there one gigantic debt that 170,000?

>> Yeah. that covered a machine and just the startup capital and then the 90 grand is for an excavator. >> Well, you you clear the rentals, you clear a bunch of this debt. It's going to free up a whole bunch of income on top of that. And then I think you also you guys have been spending like you're in Congress, it sounds like >> Well, we don't we don't The 24 was just for renovations. We're not like spending >> I know. But if he if he made 300 grand, that money go

>> Well, he invested 10 grand in the renovations. That went really quick. He boy math. He can justify any expense cuz it's an investment. You can't argue with that. >> Okay. >> And then he um put 10 grand on the car,

>> but we did the rest on a loan.

>> And then we he put about 50 grand in investments. >> Okay. I think what's happened is you guys are stuck in a broke person mindset

of how much down, how much per month, how much down, how much per month, can I afford the payment? Can I afford the payment? Yeah, >> you're also stuck in in uh >> in person in >> social media entrepreneur uh hell.

>> This guy's one Tik Tok away from imploding your family. >> Well, but I mean it's like we're going to do rental houses so we can get passive income. I'm going to get some machines and do some excavator land movement stuff. Yeah. I'm also going to do some investments. I'm also You see what I'm saying? Like all these are all just like you can just go down Instagram to these different businesses, >> right? We're ready to move on though 40

and I think his eyes have been opened and he's he's ready.

>> Awesome. My big fear is these es excavator type jobs are are boom and

bust.

They have years where they just absolutely crush and then they've got years where the phone doesn't ring as much and you really got to get out there and hustle. >> And so while you're while it's raining for y'all, man, >> God almighty, pay off everything. I I know that's where y'all are headed, but >> here's the math. You guys will be completely debtree except for your personal mortgage within a year if you do this stuff.

>> You throw 200 grand at the 315, you're down to 115. Following >> 15 grand.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> That's the actual math. Now, you can argue, well, but that's how that would work. You guys could be completely debtree in that baby step six realm with

just that 292 mortgage left 12 months from now. >> That's you and your husband shaking hands. No more of these quote unquote investments.

>> We're going to pause on putting any money away. Oh, you got one. What is it?

>> Is he over there whispering to you?

Sweet nothing. >> The Oh, yeah. No, he's here listening in. He's on board. But um I have to be honest that the invest we have eight in a Roth but the 50 was in crypto >> of course >> and I'm really trying to get him to just

release that because if you see the number 50 in crypto about 50 in credit card and car debt like I just want to wipe it clean. >> Yes. >> And my deal was if we paid off everything and we started at 15% that he could have a small percentage to do crypto if we could really get in a stronger position. That was kind of my deal I told him.

I will be impressed if he offloads the crypto because what's going to happen is one year from now they're going to go those Ramsay guys told me to sell my crypto and I could have doubled it babe to a hundred we could have we could have been bajillion that's what's going to happen and uh >> and there's grandparents out there with garages full of beanie babies who had the exact same thing like yeah dude no listen beanie babies are going to crush all right cool >> yeah it's a gamble yeah >> so and it's fine if you want to use some fun money for crypto do that but not when you're encrying debt in every corner.

And so I would just get out of this. Let's start from scratch. Let's pay off the house. Let's have an actual nest egg in retirement accounts.

>> Let's 10x the 10x to a,000x.

>> I don't know. I >> I get it. I'm on it.

>> That's it. So, you know what this means?

No more social media. Hey, look over to your husband and I want to hear him. Are you in? Totally.

>> Oh, yeah. I'm I'm 110% and that's why we're calling.

>> I love it. Okay. Okay. If you're all in

110%, that means you're more than 100, which means you definitely do crypto math. That means I want you all the crypto's gone by the end of the week and you're debt free, which is dope. And in your consumer stuff, and then you just sell your houses, your business free, and then you're off to the races.

>> I like this plan. I'm >> Yeah, that sounds like a good plan to me. I mean, I'm I'm ready to hit sell, >> dude. That's so awesome. I'm proud of you, man. Hey, can I also say this? It's hard to be in that place, isn't it?

Because you have been working really hard, haven't you? >> It is. And I gave up my career as a pilot to, you know, be home with my

family and started this business. And, you know, it it's been it's been a good tradeoff, but I do want to be completely

free of owing anybody anything.

>> My man. My man. My man. hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with uh the premium version of Every Dollar for a year to get you guys put a little gas in your jet engine here um to get you'all off to the races here. Proud of you. Sell it all. Be free of all of it

and then you're going to be building wealth like you can't imagine.

[Music]

Today's scripture of the day is Proverbs 14:30. A heart at peace gives life to

the body, but envy rots the bones.

Freddy Mercury said, "Someone will always be prettier. Someone will always be smarter. Someone will always be younger. They will never be you."

I needed to hear that, John.

>> Of course you did. Thank you. You needed to hear both of these.

>> I really did. That was actually a really good proverb. I don't know if I've heard that one before. >> That envy rock.

>> Yeah. Envy. That's very rock and roll.

That's very rock. >> Yeah. Whoever picked this out for me on the show today, well done. >> Way to go. >> That was a good job. Let's go out to San Antonio, Texas, and talk to the Tobes.

What's up, Toby? >> Hey, how you guys doing? Uh, great to get to talk to you guys today. It's great to talk to you, too, brother. What's up, man? >> I have a very difficult dilemma I need some assistance on. So, my mother-in-law has early stage dementia.

>> Ah, man. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, they're in their 80s. Um, uh, her

husband is, uh, wheelchair bound and, um, give you kind of the financials of it. Basically, memory care is about $6,000 a month starting. Uh, she's in

the lowest level of care, but each level it goes up, it's another $1,500.

They get uh social security of about 4K a month. Uh they have an apartment that the lease is through until November.

It's 2K and um they only have $100,000 left.

>> Oh my.

>> He's not a nice individual and it's become a huge family conflict

all around the money. Uh we did talk a few weeks ago and I agreed basically that hey when they ran out of money I would help them. A week later after that, he's going to my wife asking for money and then now it's telling her to give him money and he's kind of resorted

to emotional blackmail and it's just been very difficult. Um

my wife's about as unhappy I've ever seen her and we're just kind of struggling for what's the right thing to do because honestly I'm close to retirement and we have big plans for retirement. >> Yeah. And I frankly I don't really want to spend all my money. I'm just a little short of my goal saving my whole life. I

don't want to have to turn around and give all that money to take care of my

mother-in-law. And I know people probably not not like that, but it's kind of where we're at. Um >> so struggling trying to figure out what to do. >> So can I just tell you right out of the gate, you got permission to struggle and be upset. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, when you retold that story,

this may not be all of it. Um,

but I I hear in your voice you're more mad that somebody, and I don't care if it's her dad or not, somebody is

um grossly coming after your wife.

>> That's true. I'm pretty fed up with it.

I he and I kind of got into it about a week ago and he called me later and apologized which is completely unlike him but it still didn't change anything.

>> Okay. Does your wife have any siblings?

>> She has a sister. Uh she's also just retired. My wife's just retired. Uh but she doesn't make any she doesn't have any money. She had a government job and has a very small pension. She lives basically paycheck to paycheck.

>> Okay. So, I guess what I want to back all the way out and George can walk you through the specifics here, >> and I say this with all due respect, assisted living is a privilege.

>> And assisted living costs money and if you don't have money, you can't be in assisted living. You can go into a Medicaid facility if that's all that we have. >> Well, that's what we talked about is, hey, let the money run out. Actually, there's some pretty good programs with with Medicaid, but uh he he is uh I

think partly just freaking out at the thought of not having a dime to his name. >> That's true. And that's that's there's a mathematical reality to that. And so

what what you here here's the order of importance here. Her order of steps. You and your wife turn the phones off and y'all go plan a half day retreat.

>> Okay? and y'all decide what kind of life do we want to have over the next 5 to 10 years and how much is that going to cost? And both of y'all put your your pain on the table, your hurts on the table. Let your wife put her guilt.

I feel like I have to do this stuff. My guess is she's probably been bailing her dad out emotionally her whole stinking life. Um, and we're going to put all that stuff on the table. You be able to say, "I've worked this hard for you and me to have this life." and this bitter, angry, entitled old man is gonna and when actually there's a program out there for him, right?

So, put all that on the table. All of it, >> okay?

We are not going to just wipe ourselves

out when there's a program on the table to make this angry 80-year-old um not feel whatever he's feeling.

>> Okay? or if y'all decide we're going to put this much money towards that, then y'all can make that choice. But I want y'all to do whatever comes next together. And usually what happens is you get frustrated, frustrated, frustrated. Dad calls out of nowhere, bombs her, she cries, you explode, and then y'all get y'all go to neutral for a while and then it builds and builds and build. Let's just go to a place and get it all out on the table. Okay.

>> You are sp you're spot on in terms of the emotional roller coaster. >> That's right. And so let's take the explosion. Let's just let's let's empty all the gas tanks out of all the all the combustible, you know, liquids. No more gas. No more jet fuel in there and let's just sit at a table and share a meal and say, "Okay, we're both frustrated.

Neither of us wanted this and here it is. What are we going to decide to do next?" And then if y'all decide, "Hey, Dad, we're not funding this. Here's a great Medicaid program. We're going to let this money run out and then you're going to move into this place. It's a great place for y'all." Even if it's not a great, it's the place for y'all. then just expect he's gonna yell and kick and scream and throw fits and he doesn't get a vote. He's being well taken care of in

the situation that he can afford.

>> Okay. >> Right. Or if you decide we don't want to fill in the blank, y'all can go from there. >> Yeah. >> How have they afforded their life thus far?

>> Um they've been very frugal actually. Um

you know, they live in a a a person 55

and over apartment complex. it's it's reasonably priced and been very careful with his money. He's, you know, has social security and and kind of been working through his retirement savings.

It's just that he's in his 80s now and it's it's about out. So, um, that's, you

know, they they've never done anything too extreme in terms of cars or trips or anything like that. They've been >> Okay, that's good. So, they don't have big expectations of what their life is going to be like at this point. They've they've looked at the reality of it. I would also look at uh options B, C, D, and E because right now the option is either we pay $6,000 a month for assisted living or they hate us and they're homeless. And the truth is there are way more options than that.

>> So let's look, hey, what would inhome care for a few hours a day be like? What does the Medicaid option look like?

Let's lay out all the options and then go with the one that makes the most sense and then we can revisit it 6 months from now, a year from now. And I think that will just free you of this forever thing and then throwing off your goal, which I also think there's something to that. You mentioned, hey, I'm trying to retire. I've worked my whole life for this. And then a wrench got thrown into the plan. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> What is that goal? Was there a certain number? >> Yeah, I'm really close to hitting my my number and um >> like are you guys worth $5 million?

>> No, we're we're gonna be my goal is 2.5.

>> Amazing. And you're going to hit that?

>> Yes. Okay. And the truth is, if you were at 2.2, you'd still figure out how to make all that work and have a great retirement because you're that kind of guy. >> Yes. >> So, it hurts because it messes up your spreadsheet, right? I feel that as the nerd.

>> Don't put a ding in my spreadsheet. But you also don't have to feel like obligated to cover their lifestyle for the rest of their life no matter what because you want to make everyone happy. And so I want to there's some middle ground here that you guys can afford to help a little bit, but you don't want to open the floodgates and just say, "All right, I guess we're going to pay six grand a month for who knows how long. 5 years, 10 years." >> Yeah.

Average dementia patients live seven years. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. So this could be you can do the math if you want.

>> Math. >> Hey, that oddly looks like 80 grand a year for what could be seven years.

That's hundreds of thousands of dollars, which means we can't retire if we do this. >> And also, you know that afford quote unquote afford means different things to you and her.

>> She sacrificed her childhood for this guy. She sacrificed some of the things she want to do for this guy. She's willing to say, "Well, I'll just I'll just do this now." Right. Um, and I George, I have a it's not a hard and fast rule, but if people that I know or care about or whatever need something, I'll be generous for a thing, not just an endless stream of money. Exactly.

Right. So, I can help you out with this. I'll help you out with this. >> When you call and say, "I just need 10,000." I'm not going to do that. So, if grandad needs something, maybe we can help out with the thing, but not just on money, not a recurring ongoing fund my life. That's different.

[Applause] [Music]

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## 159. Stop Starting Over and Break the Cycle for Good | May 26, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOEs6ZQ2pbs) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:30:37 |

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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to [music] help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show, [music] and I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with good friend and my other co-host is Smart Money Happy Hour, George Kamel.

Excited to be with you. >> Always fun, George. >> New hairdo, by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, I want to call it out. The extensions are gone if you've been following the journey of Rachel Cruze. >> the hair. I change my hair every 6 months, so yeah, this is this is the new and improved. We'll see. I look the same as I did 4 years ago.

>> [laughter] >> George hasn't changed at >> of consistency.

You're always predictable, George Kamel.

So yeah, give us a call at 888-825-5225

cuz our advice is as predictable as George Kamel's looks. So There we go.

Full circle. All right, let's go to Hannah in New York City. Hi Hannah, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel and George, thanks for having me. Absolutely, how can we help?

Okay, so my question is, how can I keep my husband dedicated to paying off this debt with me when we are back at baby step one for the fourth time now, and he

is overwhelmed and wants to separate finances? Oh, wow.

>> Man. What's caused you guys to be on it the fourth time? What's happened? Yeah, we've had a lot of bad luck. I'm just going to rapid fire a timeline for you here. We got engaged in 2019, That's when we started this journey. Uh started paying off We had no major major debt.

It was some credit card debt, student loans, nothing major. Uh at that same time, we found out that his mom stole his identity. And it was mainly student loans in his name that he did not know existed that he was getting the ref- refund checks back to her. Um so, that kind of muffled things up,

but we were working towards it. 2020 came, COVID, we got married that year, but we canceled our wedding. Um we

kept working at it. 2021, I got pregnant with our daughter. And we lost our jobs

for because of COVID. It was really hard here. Um we had to move because our landlord died. And then from there, we kind of

wiped out our savings for the first time, and we had to uh start over at baby step one. So, week

that month. >> so it's been start over four times over the last 8 years. So, it feels like every other year you're going backwards.

Okay. And is that the main reason of his him wanting to separate finances because maybe decisions you guys made in the midst of some of this he doesn't agree with?

So, so it's more so that he has really bad ADHD. He wants to be able to focus on He works in sales, and he wants to be able to focus on his work and not have to worry about like the bank account being too low or anything like that because it's basically we were hit with something every year, and it just kind of resets us. And I'm throwing all the extra money at paying off this debt.

And now, he's trying to

focus [snorts] fully, and he's saying that if we share a bank account, that it's too confusing for him because he gets overwhelmed by cuz he doesn't know what's going in, what's coming out. And we've tried every app, every spreadsheet, everything, and it just seems like nothing's working.

I've even tried >> thinks the solution is just to work on two different pages is his solution.

>> Yeah. He thinks that's going to make this go better for everybody.

For you to do this on your own. He can't concentrate on one account.

>> fact that he says he has ADHD so he wants to focus. I'm like, well, those things are just already not working together. Okay, so Hannah, how much debt do you guys have?

Uh so, currently we have we fell back

into credit card debt uh about 2 years ago. We have 15,000 just about on that. And then we just have my student loan debt left, which is 23,000.

Okay, how much do you guys make a year?

Uh our take home is 7,500.

Uh and then on top of that, he will get

commission and bonuses. Where do those go? Uh he just uh right now he just started a new job because he was laid off 2 months ago and

then went right into a new job. So, he

uh worked it out that he will get a bonus at 6 months and a bonus at 12 months. That's going to be $10,000.

And then he's also looking at getting a settlement from his last job because he was laid off while he was on paid family leave because our son was born.

Um and he's negotiating that, but that's looking to be about 10,000, too. Okay.

Uh I want to put throw that at the debt and he wants to have that as kind of like an extra nest egg because he wants more security. >> disappear just like it has every single other time. So, here's the here's the napkin math, Hannah, just to give you some clarity. If you knock this out in 12 months, that's a little over three grand a month, which means you guys live off of 4,500 plus the extra, the bonuses, all of that. Can you guys do that?

Uh it's a little tight cuz we live in York. Our rent is a little bit over 3,000.

That includes all our utilities everything in it. >> Are you working at all? Yeah, I work from home and stay home with our kids. >> Okay, how much do you bring in a month? How much do you bring home? About a thousand a paycheck. About that's after

my insurance and everything. I get two paychecks a month.

Two paychecks a month. >> And that's on top of the 7,500 or is that combined? No, that's included in it. So his base is 70,000 and then I get the 2,000 and then he'll get commission and bonuses.

>> Got it. Okay, so 7,500 plus is what we're working with. You Have you guys tried EveryDollar, our budgeting app yet? >> [clears throat] >> We did a while ago.

Okay, I think we need to restart this process with a whole different mindset that we are doing this together. We are going to cut up the credit cards, we're going to freeze our credit because so far you've given yourself every opportunity to take a shortcut to go backwards.

Yeah. I mean it kind of I mean >> of where I'm at where I just kind of want to throw everything at this and get it over with because I feel like we're paying about a thousand Well, I know that we're paying over a thousand dollars a month at credit cards every single month and I just want to get it over with like Okay, so that so the fact that you guys

cuz it's I mean if you're saying what you're saying is true and if you're as you know, hard bent on like hey, we're not we're not going into debt anymore.

Even if an emergency comes up, the thing about taking debt off the table is it forces you to be creative in your options. And so it forces you then to say what else has to be true for us to move forward in this emergency. So if that is where you're at and that's not where he is and what he's wanting to do with money is so different to the point of wanting separate finances then at that point you guys just are not aligned, Hannah.

>> It's not the budget's fault.

I agree. I agree. I I I I feel like the

tantrum is Have you seen anybody? Have you guys brought in a third party at all?

Uh we This is difficult, too. Uh we were

seeing kind of like an ADHD therapist

for his ADHD because a lot of it stems from that. >> Does he have some Does he have medication at all?

Yeah, he's on medication for it. It's a very severe case and >> Okay. Yeah, I don't know what else to do about it. Like it's just very hard for me to cope.

>> do what you can control is the safeguards you can put in place so that you can't make any more mistakes, that you can't go backwards. And that's why I'm telling you if you cut up the cards, you don't own a credit card, you can't go into credit card debt. If you freeze your credit, you can't go into more debt. So if you really stop that, it'll help.

it's affecting you is what it's sounding like more than just the money. It sounds like [music] it's kind of coming So you guys may need some more guardrails and

processes of which you make decisions within your marriage [music] and new communication styles almost um in general and then that will actually bleed over to the money [music] thing. So I'm glad you guys are seeing someone at some level, but still engage your marriage cuz when that heals, the money stuff will follow.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Up next, we have Savannah in Sacramento, California. Hi, Savannah. Welcome to the show. Hi there.

Hello, hello. How can we help?

So, um I'm a mom of two little girls and I work two full-time jobs um and I go to school full-time and I'm in about $37,000 of debt and that includes my car and everything. >> Mhm. And I'm stuck in like this loop of like cash advances and everything. And so, when I get paid, I feel like I have nothing and it goes by so quickly and I

just don't know how to get out of this. Like, I want to get my debt, you know, back to zero and not have to worry about any of this anymore. Yeah, absolutely.

Are you Are you single, Savannah?

Yes. Okay, and you have your two girls.

How old are they?

I have a 7-year-old and a 2-year-old.

Oh, wow. Okay. And you said you're working two jobs. Is there one that's full-time and then one is part-time or are they both part-time?

No, they're both full-time. I work both of them at the same exact time. One's remote and one's in office and I just do both at the same time.

Wow, and you're in school full-time?

Yes, and I'm in school full-time.

>> How many hours in a day do you have?

Do you have more than us? How are you doing this? >> I I know it's crazy. It really is crazy.

Um I just one of my jobs is a little more laid-back and so I'm able to

do my other you know cuz I do customer support on one side and I do property management on the other and I've just been really blessed with my property management one. So >> So what's your income? >> able to make it work.

I bring home about 6,500 a month to

maybe 7,000. It just depends cuz sometimes I get you know like lease bonuses for the property management one.

So give or take it's about 6,500 7,000 a month. And what's causing you to go in the hole every month and turn to these cash advance apps?

I think it was just a cycle cuz I just got this second job maybe 2 months ago.

So I think it was a cycle with my other job that whenever I'd get paid like it just wasn't enough. Like I have my you know my rent, my bills, daycare, like I

drive a lot so gas is expensive

and I've just got stuck in these and then also my credit cards, you know, I have these minimum payments so I have to you know keep up with. So I just feel like I I I don't have enough ever and so now I just I need to get out of this like cash advance whatever you know. >> Have you felt different the last 2 months considering you just added a full part-time job or I mean sorry a full-time job? Have you felt any any relief in it at all or where that money's going?

You know, it's funny you say that because everyone asked me that and no, I I don't even feel that there that I've even made any more money. >> How much extra are you making per month now with this job versus in January?

Um I would say it's about an extra 2,500

a month. Okay.

Are you on a super strict budget?

No. Okay. That might be our problem, Savannah, honestly, because >> I think so. Um because what you described, you should feel a immense amount of relief with 20 2,500

dollars extra. And the fact that it's just slipping >> disappeared. Yep, it's going somewhere.

And I And I'm not saying you're being irresponsible or anything like that, but I think there is something about having a plan for this money, cuz if there is no plan, then it is going to just disappear. And so >> Someone else will have a plan for it, like the cash advance apps or DoorDash or whoever. They They want your money, and so you need to want it more than they do. Yep, so what we teach Savannah is a zero-based budget.

So every single month before the month begins, you're going to look at the month ahead and say, you know, in this case it will be June. Which that We're at toward the end of May. This is actually going to be a great experiment. And just as a little side note, we will get you EveryDollar Premium for a year.

Well, that's our gift to you because with EveryDollar Premium, you're able to attach your bank account to it, and you're going to cut up the credit cards. There's no more swiping. They're They're going to be gone, okay? You're going to just use your bank debit card, and you're going to create a zero-based budget with an EveryDollar.

And EveryDollar, that's the way the app is designed.

people have like different philosophies around budgeting, but we have found a zero-based budget is one of the most effective because what you do is you take your income, and then under that, you're going to list out everything you spend money on. And again, in EveryDollar, there's going to be some pre-categories that everyone has, right?

[clears throat] Rent or your mortgage or lights, electricity, cable, all of whatever. So you can add, subtract some of these categories, but the goal is for that $7,000 every month has a plan and

you know exactly where it's going including debt, including extra on the debt because you're looking at your food category and you're like, "I'm only spending I'm making this up $500 bucks a month on food. Like that's it for me and the two girls like that's all we're spending and we're going to get creative and it's going to be beans and rice, rice and beans, peanut butter and jelly, ramen noodles. Like we we want nutrition but that may come a year later when we have our money under control." You know what I'm saying? Like genuinely >> get it.

>> it is like stripping down to everything and you're going to be cutting your lifestyle cuz when you do the budget you're going to it's going to be very revealing of this is this is where all my money's going and there's going to be categories Savannah you're going to get pissed and you're going to like get this out. No, we're cutting that subscription. We're not doing this because it starts to actually visually show you like here's some freed up money and here it is that's going to be tackling the debt. So that's where that margin's going to go and so that that would be my number one for sure and then George obviously starting to pay off some of these still with the debt snowball even though the payday options are in there which are terrible and terrible interest rates and all of that but talk to us about your debt Savannah.

So most I mean most of it's credit cards. I owe 7,000 on my car but that one I make sure I pay that every single month or you know.

But what made me honestly reach out is my one of my credit cards I got a letter from an attorney that they were going to try to you know sue me for the money.

And I'm like what you know what do I do?

So all these credit cards they're all maxed out to about 5,000 and then I have one that I share with actually my dad and that one's maxed out to 10,000 and it's not his fault it's my fault. >> Mhm. So I just it's a lot you know, I need to get these credit cards under control.

>> sure, yeah. And so, cutting them up and them not even being an option is going to be your first bet. But then you can also, if they have gone into collections, there are some great options with actually calling them and

negotiating your debt. And there's actually some resources, George, that >> we're going to hook you up, Savannah. Hang on the line, we'll hook you up with Guardian Litigation. They're a partner of ours, they're a nationwide law firm, and they help people exactly in your shoes to make sure that you're not getting bullied and harassed, and they can actually help you settle these debts for what you can pay.

And so, we'll hook you up with that, you can go to guardianlit.com/ramsey, but we'll make sure that when you're off the line, our team connects you to those good people. And that's part of the the solution. And then the rest is how do we debt snowball these things? You know, delete the cash advance apps and go, like Rachel said, we're going to get creative.

And so, that's going to be your hard line with the budget. That's going to be your hard line with spending less and making more. Clearly, you're doing a good job making more, but you're finding out there's a ceiling to that. We have to learn how to spend less too in order to create that margin.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, and don't let the credit card companies scare you, Savannah. I mean, if anything, if they are in collection, honestly, it's more an advantage for you because what happens is they end up selling the debt

to to another company, and then they call you, the collections company, and then they end up selling it, you know, next week to another company. I mean, it's just a disaster, that whole industry. And they're going to try to freak you out, that they're going to sue you, they're going to garnish your wage, you know, they'll just talk it up. And honestly, if it is in collections, that gives you the power to negotiate.

Now, if you have the money, people listening out there, that's not in Savannah's case.

But when you're in a case like you, Savannah, where you're like, I don't have the money to pay, then when they go

into collections, then again, it's a little bit to your advantage cuz you may be actually be able to negotiate. Um and depending on how deep it is, I mean, sometimes pennies on the dollar. So, you So, but um yeah, but that company that law firm will be able to help you. Um yeah, they're amazing.

And then I just want to encourage you, Savannah, you're a single mom. And any single parent out there just in general, whether, you know, you have your finances in order or you're stressed about them, that in and of itself is exhausting. Like, [music] that is so hard, so hard.

doing an incredible job setting up a life for your girls. I mean, [music] you're going to be doing the grunt work for the next probably 2 years to get yourself out of this. But Savannah, when we talk about changing your family tree on this show, that's what [music] it's about. That's your why. It's fighting for these girls so that you guys have peace and control over your money.

>> [music] >> And you're you're a hero to say I'm going to strap on that cape and I'm going to take this journey. So, we're here for you. Stay on the line though. We're going to hook you up with everything we've talked about. >> [music] >> And call us back, Savannah, if you need anything.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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We always get tons of [music] questions when it comes to investing, and so if you have a lot of questions or you just want some help, make sure to get a SmartVestor Pro in your corner.

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to find an investing pro near you, or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, make sure to click the link in the description. All right, let's head to Jordan in San Diego. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to the show.

Well, how are you guys doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

I'm doing great. Um so, my name is Jordan. I'm from San Diego, California.

Um I'm 24 years old and um my current income is about $120,000 a year.

Uh the reason I'm calling you guys today is um it feels like my entire life people have always told me go to college, get a good job, make a lot of money, and everything else will follow. Um, I think I've done a pretty good job at getting to that point now, but it seems like the more time goes on and the more money I make, the life I always imagined myself having having keeps going further and further out of reach. The reason I say that is, as I said, I live in Southern California, in San Diego.

I look for houses in San Diego, too far out of my reach.

wider circle and I go further, and no matter how far I go, it still feels like houses, a mortgage is going to cost me around $3,500 a month, with which with

my income doesn't sound so bad, but I think I've finished most of the steps I want to in life, and the next thing I want to do is start a family and have kids and focus on that, and it just feels so out of reach for me to keep contributing to my savings accounts, to pay off a mortgage, to be able to support my wife while she stays home, and to take care of kids and make sure that they have some sort of support going to school, and I don't really know if I'm doing something wrong or if there's something I could do differently.

Here's what you've done wrong, Jordan.

You've assumed that you have 5 years left to live and that you must accomplish all of this in the next 5 years or else. So, all you need is patience. >> [laughter] >> You're doing so well at 24, far better than I was. And yes, you have a high cost of living area, but there's no rule book that says if you don't own a house in San Diego by 25, you screwed it up, man.

Those people meant well for you, but they don't live your life. And so, I would just be very patient. Go, you're crushing it. Let's learn to live on less than we make, put money in savings, and then do this for the next 6 years, and then call us and see where you're at.

Okay, I appreciate that. Something I did want to ask. I'm currently putting money into my work TSP.

I work for the government so we have their savings plan. I put money into my personal investment account that I'm saving. Right, and I feel like obviously I'm extremely grateful for the job that I have and I know a lot of people are in a much worse situation than me.

But I feel there's a lot of things I don't do cuz I'm just so addicted to saving my money. I'm so afraid of bad debt that I think there's a lot of things I don't >> I have a $7,000 remaining on my car note. Okay.

And other than that Are you working on paying that off?

Yeah, I just paid it off. It's I think it's 290 a month and it's it's a easier for me to just pay it off. >> you have in savings?

I currently have in my individual investment account I have around $20,000 in savings. Liquid cash in my savings account I have 5,000.

And then I have personal Roth IRA with 25 and then like I said my TSP has

another 25 in it. Great. Well, you're doing great on the investment side. I would just have some focus with your financial goals and right now my singular focus would be getting out of debt.

The next focus is to have a liquid emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. And as a young single guy, this is also the best time because you have no other responsibilities, no one else to answer to. It's just you and your own goals.

Your income's going to grow over that time and so you all you're seeing right now is this little tiny snapshot of your life right now and then you see these very big goals far away and I think you're closer than you realize.

>> I don't think you're comparing your life to reality either, Jordan. So you either have expectations that you should be, you know, where you should be at 34 and you're 24 or you're, you know, seeing people on social media or your friends are talking, you know, whatever it is and the what's what's being painted in front of you is probably not the whole picture either. And so if you are in your early 20s making six figures, no debt, so I'm going to count that for you cuz I want you to pay off your car tonight with some of the savings.

And then and you have cash, you know, saved, you have investments, like everything that you're doing, you are doing it well. And the hard thing about building wealth the right way is that it takes time and patience. It's not going to be as flashy as the people you see on TikTok that are like, "I bought 18 VRBOs

and or Verbo, whatever they call them, or you know, Airbnbs and like, you know what I mean? Like you're going to see and I make 1 million a month. They're like, "What are all the crazy stuff you see?" Majority of the time, number one, it's not even true, or number two, they've built their entire financial life on a house of cards. So, slow and

steady wins the race, and it's not going to be flashy, it's not going to be exciting, but it is going to be solid and it's going to be all yours cuz you're not going to be borrowing money to do any to do any wealth building.

It's going to be you actually making decisions about your life. And so, that's what I would encourage you. That I think you're what you're wanting is not bad or wrong, but I think feeling like a failure cuz you don't have it right now, to George's point, at 24, we just want to like be like, "Jordan, you're good. You are You're doing great.

You're doing great." >> I think the one of the reasons I'm so overwhelmed now is because I have have to say, I've already met the love of my life. We're talking about marriage.

>> Oh, great. >> about kids. Yes.

Sure. >> have a ring. I don't have a wedding. I don't have a honeymoon, which is obviously I'm not planning on spending an extravagant amount on it, right? I can't imagine bringing kids into the world um until I feel ready, which the feeling of being ready is different. [laughter] >> Yeah, like I I everyone tells me that.

Not emotionally, not financially. The best thing you can do is be debt-free with an emergency fund and be aligned with your spouse on your goals financially, spiritually, all of that.

That's the best thing you can do to be ready. Other than that, don't wait until you have a certain amount in your investment account to have a kid. No.

And go ahead and get married, Jordan. If you guys know, do it. What's holding you back right now? Is it finances?

I I'm I'm so afraid of not having money.

How did you grow up, Jordan?

I grew up So, my dad is the hardest working guy I know. He's never He doesn't have a retirement. He doesn't have anything. >> That's your fear.

That's your fear. >> You know, and I'm just Yeah, I'm so worried. >> Yeah. Like I want I love my dad, but I want the opposite of that life.

I want the idea where I know the bills are going to get paid. That's why I love my job. Everyone talks about oh, owning a business. I love having a union.

I love having a stable paycheck. I love having investments sent to my account automatically. There's no other way I'd rather do it. >> Yep.

It was just the idea of me like you were telling me to pay off the $7,000, right? Which I know was a great idea.

$1,000 in cash and it goes into my car.

I know it's a good idea, but it feels wrong cuz in my head, if I don't save, I

feel like I'm failing.

Right, because at that point, from where

your psychology is, is that saving is

the only the only thing you should do with money. And out of good reason because you're looking at your parents like holy crap, they have nothing They're not going to They They work so hard, but now they have nothing to show for it at retirement. But here's the deal, Jordan. There's two other parts of money that you have to engage in to have

a holistic, healthy financial picture.

Giving and spending. Okay? So, you may go

through seasons where you're going to be saving more. Maybe you and your soon-to-be fiance, soon-to-be wife, you're saving up for that down payment on a home and you guys are really like, "Hey, we're going to pull back on lifestyle to really get that down payment." That's great. But over the course of your life, Jordan, if you have this mentality the rest of your life, that's where money can become an idol.

You will hold on to it so tightly and have this sense of security that this is going to be your answer. And then you're going to look up and realize, "Oh my gosh, I have I have wasted my whole life cuz fear has driven my financial decisions, not a healthy balance of all of this." So, >> [music] >> I want I think the budget is your answer. Budget for the fun stuff, budget for some giving, and budget for the saving. >> Yes.

And realize, "I'm young. I got a lot of time on my hands. You're doing so good." >> Jordan, go on ramseysolutions.com and pull up the [music] investment calculator and put in what you have right now with investments at 24. And if you And just do the math, if you never put another dime in, what you'll have at retirement cuz 40 years from now with compound interest.

>> You're going to be doing great even where you are now. You're doing great, Jordan.

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Well, George, when it comes to investing, [music] well, we were talking about um just the previous segment of how powerful time is. And even if you just do the boring stuff, time is on your side. So, the earlier you can start, the better off you're going to be.

Yeah, and the the first milestones are really hard. And then it's like a hockey stick with compound growth. So, getting to that first 100,000 invested is such a

marathon. And then from a million to 2 million, you sort of blink and you're there if you do it the right way. So, I want to take Jordan's numbers, who was on the call with us. He made 120 grand a year, and he felt like it just wasn't enough. He was behind. He can't accomplish his goals. So, he was like hoarding money to invest and couldn't enjoy any of it. And I just wanted to show the audience at home, even if he

never invested another dime, where his investments would be. >> Okay. To help with the scarcity mindset that he was experiencing. So, he's currently 24. We're going to pull up the screen here if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify or the Ramsey Network app. So, 24 years old, let's go to 64.

So, it's a 40-year career, and he currently has, he said, 25K in a Roth, 25K in the TSP. So, we'll call that 50K, and he's never going to add another dime. So, how much will you contribute monthly? Zero. And I'm using the Ramsey Investment Calculator. We'll put a link in the show notes to plug your own numbers in. Annual return, I'm going to go with 10%. Now, in the last since 1950, the S&P 500, which is the top 500 companies in America, have returned about 11.8%.

So, 10% is very realistic.

>> Let's do both. We'll go conservative 10.

>> Rachel will be the optimist, glass half full gal. Always more. All right.

>> [laughter] >> I'm going to hit calculate. $2.68 million. >> Oh. Jordan at >> if he never adds a dime, which is not bad. >> 2.7. See, you're rounding it up again.

Now, at 12%, you're looking at 5.9 million. 5. That's a two That's pretty wild. >> $6 million, Jordan.

>> over 40 years really adds to it.

>> he hears this. >> go back and let's say >> never do another thing. Isn't that wild?

Never do another thing. >> growth. And look, the contributions, he didn't contribute anything but the 50, and it turned into that just by >> So, if you could imagine continuing to invest 15% of your income.

>> of his 120 grand, that's 1,500 a month.

>> Okay. From 24 to 64. [clears throat] Let's see what happens if he continues this. >> $12 million at 10% rate of return, Jordan. There you go, Jordan. >> So, if and that's if you never get a raise and your spouse never works.

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good point. >> So, let us free you.

Yeah. >> Enjoy some of the money cuz you're going to get to 12 million and go, "Should have went on a vacation probably. That probably would have been a good idea. I got a lot of money now and don't have enough time to spend it." >> that we actually like enjoy and want to pick out.

You know what I mean? Like there's it's okay. Well, that's what happens. We, you know, we talk about this book, Die with Zero, which we don't agree with everything in the book, but the concept is do not wait until you're 70 or 80 or or at the point where you pass away to then hand your kids a million bucks when they don't need it in their 60s.

>> That's right. That's right. >> Use it, enjoy it while you're alive. And even giving them some, too, right?

But while you're alive, actually be Give people [clears throat] like Jordan a leg up to be able to buy a house in San Diego at 24, if you're that boomer.

there you go. Some encouragement that you don't have to retire broke and the younger you are, the more every dollar counts because it has more time for compound growth. >> that all the time. People are like, "Why did I not start this earlier? Why did I not get out of debt and start" You know what I mean? Start the whole baby step process >> I start when I was 4 years old? I would have had an extra 20 years. No, George.

But that's the idea. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. So >> Start Start where you are. >> We all wish we could have started earlier. >> That's right. All right, let's go to Oklahoma City and we have Lindsey on the line. Hi Lindsey, welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Yeah, I have a question. Um I have a uh

credit collection services bill um in the amount of $1,000 and uh $1,035

Mhm. And I'm about $70,000 in debt. Um

and or $77,000 in debt. And I was just

curious. I I tried calling them earlier to see if they could make a settlement for $400 and they denied it. And I was

just taking Dave's advice to do that.

And um so I was just curious what you guys would do. How old is the debt?

Oh, uh as of April 17th.

Oh, so it's like a month.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, a fresh debt like that, they're not going to be as willing to settle as one that would has been sitting for three or four years cuz they kind of see the writing on the wall.

They'll be lucky to get anything out of this debt. And so not that I would wait on purpose to pay this off, but the reason they're not going to take, you know, 400 on a $1,000 debt is because it's only a month old. >> Yeah. Yeah, if it was a year or two, that's when you can really really negotiate. Um do you What do What do you have, Lindsey? Do you have extra margin every month that you're trying to pay off debt?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've got I've got a lot. I'm just trying to figure out where you put your money.

Yes. Okay, so will you tell let us know So, you have that $1,000 bill, and then what's the other $77,000?

What kind of debt? >> Well, 70,000 of it is my car.

70,000 is just in your car?

>> That's one car?

Yeah. How much do you make a year?

200 Well, 225 base. [clears throat]

Okay. And then plus commission. Okay. So, last year I made 270. Okay. Okay. Well, that's not completely out of proportion just for an income standpoint. I was nervous you were going to say you make 75. We get that call sometimes. We're like, But all of your problems are solved if you just sold the car, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, how are you How do you have a credit in collections making

270 a year?

Well, because I'm not very good at I'm

very good at my job, and I'm not very good at taking care of everything else.

Okay. From like a detail standpoint in getting everything paid. >> Yeah, I have a problem with details.

>> Okay, so you do have a $1,000 to pay this debt, though.

I do. Okay. Okay. Well, so then I wouldn't I wouldn't negotiate. I'd just I'd just pay it. >> calories to try to negotiate Yeah. Fight at this point. >> Be done. And then what's the other 7,000?

Uh credit card debt and like uh

some credit card debt and then a little bit of like uh I put something on a furniture plan, but Okay.

>> I'm just trying to figure out how to spend my money, and um I was just curious what you guys thought because Dave always talked about, you know, you guys can call a credit collections company and, you know, offer 30%, and I offered more than that, and they didn't settle.

Um Yeah, but they also Yeah. And if they have any insight into your income as well, they're not going to be settling with you, either. So, they I >> Yeah, know if they did or not, so that would make more sense. >> So, well, so I would say, Lindsay, I would I would start to put some parameters in place,

some identity statements, if you will, about who you are with money, okay? So, you, if I were to like wave a wand, I would want you to say, "I'm a person that doesn't borrow money. I don't need to borrow money because I'm a really hard worker. I'm very smart, and I can make a lot of money, and I am. That's that's part of who I am. That's part of you, Lindsay. Also, details are not my strength, but I

am a person who works at my weaknesses, especially when my weaknesses are costing me all this money. Like, the amount of interest you're paying, Lindsay, on credit cards, when you make $270,000 a year, it should be like >> wild. What do you do for work? I'm curious.

I'm a lighting sales Sorry, you broke up. >> lighting sales rep for commercial.

A lighting sales rep?

Yeah. I imagine that involves some details, right?

You got to know the customers, know the products.

Too many. We represent like 208 different manufacturers right now.

Sounds like you know some details. And so, I think what's happened is we've been lackadaisical with our money cuz we can sort of out-earn our stupidity. But, the problem here is not settling a $1,000 debt. The problem here is you're going to make $1,000 at work today.

If you make 220 grand a year, that's about every work day you have in a year. So, let's take advantage of this amazing income and go, "I'm cutting up the cards. I'm only going to use money I have in the bank. I'm going to sell this car just because I know it was a mistake.

I'm going to purchase something in cash, and I'm going to be a kind of person who can save up for that." And guess what?

So, you would suggest buying something um buying something else. I mean, obviously, I know it was kind of a dumb decision, right? >> What kind of car is this? America wants to know.

It's a Defender 130. Oh, see, you knew

the details there.

You didn't just walk [laughter] up and say I'll take any old car you got. So, here's what >> Lindsey knows what she wants to know.

The hardest part's going to be swallowing your pride and selling that car and buying something that is not a Defender 130 brand new. Yeah. Or if you can pay this off in a year, Lindsey, I would be okay with you keeping it, but [music] you actually have to do a plan and say I'm putting all of this extra money towards paying off debt. So, you're going to live on nothing. >> $6,000 a month just going to the car.

>> Everything is going to be going to this car. >> to do that, it needs to be sold tomorrow.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to The Ramsey show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with

good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Kamel. We are answering your questions, so give us a call at 888-825-5225.

And we do this show every day from 1:00 to 4:00 Central Time, so you can come and visit us. We are just south of Nashville in Franklin. We had a We had a full house today here on Memorial Day weekend. Uh and it's yeah, it's always fun and it's always fun when we get to see people and interact and say hi.

Sometimes lonely here behind the >> box of emotion we find ourselves in. But when y'all are out there, we appreciate it. And George, we actually went on the road and did the show live in front of a bigger audience than what we had here.

>> Couple hundred people. It was awesome. >> And it was so fun. We did these >> in April. Yeah, we did these like small kind of theaters around, some in Southern California. We were in Orlando, where we were Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix >> There we go. >> and Anaheim area. I blacked out for a second. >> to be specific. [laughter] Orlando was last fall. >> Orlando was last fall, yeah.

I can't keep up. I I can't >> Yeah, May has been something, but >> But there were some great moments and the team did a great job with these events in the video side of it. And you get to see the emotion on their faces, the laughter, the tears, the awkward debates with their spouse standing next to them. >> That's right, yeah.

So make sure to check those episodes out, you guys. I think we have three out of the four that are out, and so you can check them out on the channel. And yeah, it was just kind of a fun different way to do the Ramsey show, but we loved it. Loved being there.

All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia, and we have Catherine on the line. Hi, Catherine.

Hi, thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Um several years ago, my mother-in-law moved in with me and my husband, and she's been living with us since then. And despite the mother-in-law Uh, stereotypes out there, she's actually been fabulous. Um, but while she watches our kids, um,

and started that 4 years ago, she doesn't pay anything for like room and board. Mhm. She has helped a lot with like household items and things like that. But when you think of the whole scope of it, I'm like, "Oh, that's a lot of money." And I don't know if that's something we should ask her, my husband's siblings to help contribute to, or even my mother-in-law herself.

To contribute to like uh, like paying rent and for utilities, is that what you mean specifically?

Yeah, like toward Yeah, like essentially like room and board. We do pay a lot.

It's like the food, too. Like pretty much every day like necessities.

>> expected on her part?

I I guess that would be it, yeah.

Expected not to pay, you mean? >> Yeah, it's expected that she doesn't pay and that you guys get all the groceries.

>> just because of child care, how how often is she watching the kids?

She watches the kids, so it's been one kid every day or when I was working full-time for 4 years. And then I just

had a child, so it's going to be a 4-year-old and a a little baby. And then it'll be 5 days a week. Okay.

>> Wow. And you're not paying her for that.

Correct, yeah. Yeah, I think she's kind of earned her keep. >> are getting the deal out of this, not her. Yeah. >> Cuz what you would pay for someone to watch those kids, I mean, you're talking about a nanny, a live-in nanny situation, is what you pay. >> pay a full salary, you know, 40, 50 grand a year for that person. So, you're not paying that.

Um, so I think she's probably earning her keep, if you if you ask me.

Yeah, that makes sense. >> And was anything established early on of, you know, whose decision was it for her to live with you guys?

Um, it was really was me and my husband's joint decision. She was, um, in an abusive marriage, and so we essentially got her out of her house and for safety reasons and then she got divorced and I was like, you stay here like as long as you need and even if you want to stay, stay, that's fine. Um, and that's just what it turned into for like a year and a half and then I had my son and things just stayed the same.

Okay, so I do wonder if there's any level of you, Catherine, having a a low level, you sound very pleasant and peaceful, but a low level of frustration that that an urgent thing needed to be done and I think you guys made the right decision, right? I think if anyone was in that position and their mom was, you know, in a dangerous situation, come live. But then the fact that there was no, um, that that act now has become the rest of your life as you see it because there's no other conversation of her leaving.

Um, that I would be I would think for

myself, Catherine, you know, pretty intently like, hey, what do I want my life and my household to look like in the next four or five years? Is it that you're going to be working full-time and until these kiddos go to off to kindergarten, you're going to need help and actually it's a gift that she's there, but we know when that time comes, maybe, you know, she can find her own place or maybe it's in 12 months that that happens.

Can we just can we talk about it cuz it just feels like it's like ambiguous

and and and that ambiguity is causing probably some level of like, oh crap, this is now forever. Should she be paying towards the mortgage cuz she's living here? You don't even need to like say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think that just was never established cuz you sort of all stumbled into the situation and you all love each other and it all made sense and now you're going, we probably should have some level of boundaries here about what this looks like, what is the responsibilities for everybody. >> is, you know. >> Cuz she might also get resentful and go, "Wait, I just realized I'm not getting paid for this. This is crazy that I'm watching two kids five days a week." >> And she can't create her own financial independence at all from you all.

You know what I mean?

would I would not want that to happen without some conversations of just the plan. Hey, what are we desiring? What are we wanting? What's the plan going forward?

That makes sense. Ambiguity does make me anxious. Yep. So And that's fair. I hadn't thought about it that way. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Yeah, and I and I don't think that's mean of you or, you know what I mean?

That you're a bad daughter-in-law or, you know, anything like that.

Um but especially when you start mixing, you know, families um and living situations, when it's not talked about and established and expectations and desires and wants and fears, all of that is pushed out on the table and talked about, uh it can get messy really quickly. And some people do it well. I think we had a call maybe this week even about that, George, when I was on with you in on Monday. There's ways to do it well, but it takes a lot of communication on the front end, and it takes healthy people on every side of it.

That's the other part. >> Yes. And Catherine, you know, opening that conversation may end up in resulting possibly of her saying, "You know what?

get some independence." Which may mean she moves out and gets a job and you got to figure out, you know, childcare stuff. Like I, you know, I don't know what that means, but I think being true to yourself and what you guys want is going to be the most important long term. There's a saying around here at Ramsey to be unclear is to be unkind.

That's right. So it's actually the nicest thing you can do Yes.

>> is to communicate with clarity. Even if you go, "Oh, that didn't feel good in the moment." Mhm. least we all know where we stand. There's no ambiguity.

Okay, that quote's good. And then what does Deloney say about uh resentment versus Oh, um choose Oh, no. Sorry,

Deloney. Do you remember? >> Choose guilt over resentment. Yes. >> Yeah, that's it. Choose guilt over resentment. You feel >> to feel guilty. Maybe trying to have this conversation, you feel bad about it, but you'd rather have that that emotion than resentment build over the next couple years.

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, Woody is in Atlanta, Georgia.

Hi, welcome to the show. >> [music] >> Hello. How are you guys doing?

>> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So, my wife and I, we've been married for a long time and we started Financial Peace University around 2007 before we got married

at Jonesboro First Baptist Church. And so, we followed the baby steps pretty much. We're 40 and 41 now and I've

noticed that I can't seem to switch it off anymore because I'm constantly just thinking about like savings and investing and uh we actually have a pension at our workplace and I've noticed that our like our 401k and our 457 and stuff like that have actually reached to like 1.2 million dollars already and >> Wow. And yes, that's like gotten to the point where am I really enjoying the money that I'm saving? What It's almost like I get anxiety when I spend on frivolous things. But I will give money away if I, you know, to people when they need it for certain things, but it's almost like Mhm.

we only have really, cuz my wife is a teacher and I I'm in public safety, so

we retire pretty early like at 52 years old. So, we got about 11 10 years left to really work and and it's going to be about $150,000 a year just for the pension alone. So, So, you're basically saying we're good on the investment side. How do I unlock this spending side cuz even when I do spend, I don't enjoy it.

Right. Yeah, cuz I mean we we paid off all our debts. Um You got a mortgage?

>> No, we paid off our house. We followed all the baby steps. We we completed everything. >> you guys. As a teacher and what what did you say you did? I'm sorry. >> Public safety. Okay, yes. Well done you guys. That's amazing. That is amazing.

What's your wife What's your wife like with money?

>> Um she just she really she sticks to the plan that I just kind of go, "Hey, we need to just do this." and she just kind of steps back and um just allows me to invest and just

just do whatever. And then, you know, we go on vacations. We enjoy just hanging out with each other, but we live very I guess minimally cuz we really don't spend that much money on just random things anymore. >> Sure. Yeah. Is there things you want to do, but you can't get yourself to do it?

Experiences, things.

>> I've always interested in the fire movement just you know, cuz public safety is one of those things where I can't just leave work because um things may happen that I need to be there for. So, I you know, I deal with emergency management. So, it's pretty much for a whole county. So, it's not something I could just leave and go on vacation. So, I guess my big thing right now is just focus on like financial independent retire early, but we're there.

So, you want to go on more vacations, but you can't do to your role?

Yeah. If I could snap my fingers, that's where I'm going. Where would you put your money if I snap my fingers today?

Is it a hobby? Is it a thing? Is it upgrading the car? Is it you know, buying back your time? You guys are doing things you don't want to do.

Probably buying back time. I mean, that's pretty much what I focus on. I've noticed that that's all I kind of think about right now is like Hmm, can I actually retire early? Cuz I mean, our house is you're not even part of the net worth.

Our house I don't even count the house as part of our net worth. >> Sure. Do you guys have kids? What do you do? >> Yes, ma'am. Um I have a 3-year-old and we've already funded his um 529 and it's I believe you, Woody. I believe you. I believe you. You have been uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh Yes. You funded your grandkids.

>> You've got an A+ plus for the for the Financial Peace University graduate.

>> You won the prize. >> Um okay, so you know, what I think about Woody a lot when it comes to spending is

a couple of things. One, you want to have that muscle built, right? Because like you said, you're going to just end up hoarding, not enjoying anything. And part of the

gift and the blessing of being diligent is that you reap what you sow. And you guys have sowed really well, right?

You've put in a lot of patience and wisdom and sacrifice. And so now you're going to have the ability to do some really fun things in life, but you won't be able to have fun with those things if you don't enjoy letting go of some of this money. So, that's one thought. And then um Arthur Brooks, who we just love so much, he talks about there's five things you can do with money. And four of them will actually actually bring you a level of happiness, okay?

One, generosity, which you already mentioned in this call, which I love that about you. So, yes, always looking at ways to be generous. That actually has a level of happiness in your life.

Um one of them is buying your time back, just what George said. So, are there things, conveniences in life with having a 3-year-old, that maybe your wife's like, "Hey, I would love grocery delivery. I don't want to go to the grocery anymore. Let's let's do that." Or let's have someone come clean the house. Like, I don't know what that looks like for you guys, but what are things that you can spend money on to actually get your time back or your wife's time back.

And and do something productive with that time, he says. The third is to spend it on experiences with people you love. So, find if you can find the time. I hear that your job is uh very taxing in that way, but if there are moments of reprieve that you can say, "No, I can get PTO here." Go enjoy those, and take take your you know, take your son, take another couple with you guys that you love, or I don't know what that looks like, but go and have some experiences with people you love.

And then the fourth is actually saving.

And then the fifth thing you can do with money, it's not a bad thing, it just won't bring you happiness, it's just buying stuff. So, um but again, there's a little bit of me wanting to like kind of wants you just to buy some stuff. I kind of want you to get in your in your budget every month have a line item of just like >> that line item. That That's the one thing you have to do in the budget is spend on this thing.

And it can be as tactical like my husband and I, we will spend differently, okay?

>> She's a quantity gal, and Winston's a quality guy. >> be like, "Let's upgrade the water hose." Or whatever it is, you know, right? And he's like, "There's a purpose to it, it's tactical." But he's like, "Let's go buy a nice one." Like, that's where he'll spend. But find things that you can spend money on throughout the month because that will help you let go of some of this because it will Money can control you. It can control you on one end if you're broke, and you have no

money, right? There's a level of control there because you're stressed out all the time, but it also on the other end of the spectrum can have the control where you have this false sense of deep security, and opening your hands and

letting some money go kind of counteracts that.

Yeah. So, what has been a feature Woody is now a bug. That's the problem. The feature was, man, you're so good at living on less than you make, so good at saving, and now that you made it, it is a bug that we need to debug. And that's why I

buy random stuff.

I do buy random stuff. I I mean, we got two Teslas. I mean, I literally bought two back-to-back, and then I was like, well, those are paid off, so I I think I

think giving away my money at this point is going to be what to my like family members and stuff. I think I think it's going to be the best bet because we we put away a good bit of money into vacations too now, and so um

I just it's kind of hard for me to shut it off because if money's just sitting around in the bank or something, I feel like I'm not getting a lot of interest off of it, so I end up just investing it, and that's all I seem to do with just standing money. Yeah, and I think that's okay, too. I mean, my husband and I that I mean, we'll get to a place where we have a high-yield savings account, we'll put some money in, and then we'll look up, and we're like, okay, you know, there's some money in there, and it's just sitting there, we could invest that, and so we'll take, you know, some of that money and put it back into investment.

it sounds like what you just said gives me some level of relief. Maybe you're doing better than you think you are. What do you think? Yeah, I I think some therapy would be the next good purchase to go, what's underneath all the scarcity mindset?

How do I, you know, kind of unlock this abundance mindset now that I actually have it? Nothing is on fire, and yet I always feel like something's on fire. That might be part of your wiring. I mean, you're in public safety, you're always like waiting for the the other shoe to drop.

That might be part of it. I came from a communist country, so that probably had a lot to do with it. >> Oh, yeah.

Well, we uh I was from Vietnam. My mom like we escaped Vietnam after the the the war and everything, and so >> Yes. Um I mean, I was a little kid, but

it was just like years after, and like lived really poor, so I guess that I can't switch it off. My brother's the same way, so >> Yeah. Which makes sense, right? When you can connect those dots.

Like, you're not crazy, right? I mean, what you've lived through and experienced, you're like, there's no way I want to I want to go back to that. But again, [music] that's a good motivator to get you to a place of security and [music] safety with money, which is what's happened. So, now, not still depending on that same wiring is what's going to be key.

>> [music]

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Today's question comes from Grayson in Maine. I'm having trouble with baby step two.

I've saved the $1,000 emergency fund, but can't seem to make any headway on paying off our debt. I have three daughters under 13. It's difficult for me to go fully scorched earth when I want to still give them a decent childhood and provide the things they need. How can I stop feeling stuck?

What a good dad. The dad guilt. It's real. Wow. Okay, so the I think there's a The issue here is we are pinning getting out of debt and not spending money to bad childhood.

And I think you can have a great childhood and not buy your way into it. And getting out of

debt doesn't take their entire childhood. It may take two, four years,

um, but not their entire childhood. And

uh, I I mean, I say this about my kids, I don't know if you feel like this, George, really what they want is you.

And you playing with them, being involved in their lives, doing things not necessarily that cost money, but just spending time with them, being around them. There is something to There's something to that that I think we we gloss over and think we they just need more stuff.

And just keep pushing that agenda when at the end of the day, yeah, do do teenagers want stuff? Absolutely. I'm not saying that, but but truly the priority of who what what is being built within them and their character is really going to come from you and the time spent with them. Well, and if you're in debt the whole time they're going through childhood, you're not going to be fully present.

You're going to be stressed. There's going to be financial burdens that will take you away from letting you enjoy them as children.

as they enter their teenage years, which is when things really get expensive.

You know, they're going to start wanting There's clothes, there's prom, there's all the activities, the sports, college funding, all of that you're going to be able to do so much easier without this debt in your life. So, uh some of this is just not feeling the dad guilt that you're doing a bad job and some of it is going short season. And your parenting might look different than other people's parenting in that season. And that's okay, too, right?

So-and-so maybe do an X, Y, and Z with their kids and you you're not because you are putting that money towards getting out of debt again, which is not forever. It's not their entire childhood. They're going to promise promise they're going to be okay. All right, let's go to Eunice in LA.

welcome to the show.

Hello. Very nice to hear your voice, guys. Oh, well, thank you. You as well.

Thanks for calling. How can we help?

So, uh I've been in USA for almost 4 years. Um my background is about uh um like meat

shop businesses uh back in my country for my family.

And when I came here, I started working with somebody that he owns a retail store um in a good location.

And right now he's going to retire. So,

he was offered for me the store for 300k.

And I was um I had like $50,000

um to give it to give to give it to him as a uh down payment.

So, I'm thinking the question is I'm thinking if I uh go ahead and buy the store

I mean buy the the the the business or

go and take that 50,000 and open my own shop.

So, that's my question.

Okay. Um would you be able to open your

own shop with 50,000 or were you going to plan on borrowing money as well to do that?

Yeah, I do have a friend that he can borrow for me like another 75 uh without a without a interest.

Okay. Um Yunus, I think it's a terrible idea >> [laughter] >> to borrow any type of money uh for

anything and especially when it comes to small businesses and especially in the

food industry. That's the number one

industry that ends up closing its doors and then people end up owing so much and not because you're not great at what you do, it just is what it is. And so, when

you add debt to the picture you add on stress, you add on a lot of risk and you add in levels of decisions

that you make in order for the business in order to pay the payment that may not be great decisions long-term for the business. So, there is something about the peace of mind and moving slowly and moving with the speed of cash to grow something that doesn't lock you into a

small business loan or worse owing your friend money that he's going to get for you and then when the if something happens and it then the shop closes up, now you owe your friend money and it may take, you know, four or five years to pay pay off. And so, staying

ahead financially is not going backwards and going into debt.

Okay. What's the net profit of the business every year?

Um like uh 120

k. Okay. So, they're basically valued at at little uh under three times that.

[snorts] At 300,000.

Yeah. Okay. Have you talked to him about a potential agreement where you basically pay him income out of the profits until he hits a certain amount?

Uh we were we were thinking about it.

Yeah. That's a much safer way to do this and the only way I would do it is this sort of sweat equity agreement where you pay him a certain amount of the profits, maybe it's a certain amount, a certain percentage, until you hit 300,000. And

at that point, he's cut off. And it's almost like you yeah, you're you're paying for it as you go versus

going getting a $300,000 loan and then

having the bank be the one that's, you know, in charge of it all. Because with this other agreement, you you have not borrowed money at that point under your name.

Right. Uh but actually um he's offering for me like 300k under

his uh loan. So, I'm going to pay him like uh a seller finance method. Yeah, but that's a very different situation than you paying him out of a percentage of profits. Let's say 25% of profits to him until it's paid back. You see what I mean? Cuz then if the profits aren't there, you're not on the hook. And so, I would have a business attorney draft this up to avoid you having carrying all of this risk.

Okay. So, if you look at 25%, you're talking 30 grand a year. So, it'd be 10 years to fully pay him back. Now, you guys might agree on a different percentage, maybe it's 40%, so he gets paid in less than 10 years. But this idea that you're going to take on a quarter million dollar debt hoping this all works out perfectly is just you're jumping off a cliff.

Yes, right. >> Yep. So, so yeah, staying away from any

debt situation. And if you can yeah, create some kind of agreement with them with George was saying, that's that's what we would recommend. So, thanks for the call. Um George, we have a question from Facebook. And Natalie asks, "We are planning an out-of-state move and we'll be paying off our debt with the sale of our home. This feels like we are cheating on the plan. So, how can we make sure that we feel the pinch and

don't go back into poor money habits?"

Go That's it. That's that's That's the question. >> very self-aware. So, they're going, "Hey, we'll knock out the debt with the sale of the home, but we know we sort of shortcutted it and it worked out." But our behavior hasn't necessarily changed.

How do we make sure it's changed? Oof. I mean, that's the honor system at that point, but one way to know that is have

you actually been budgeting? Are you living on less than you make? Is there margin every month? Have you shut down all of your debt accounts including your credit cards?

Yep. Have you frozen your credit so you can't get back into debt even if you wanted to? That tells me that the behavior's changed. >> Yes, if there's any kind of friction you can put into place is going to be huge.

And especially on the debt side. And just like what you were saying, George, closing accounts uh you and your husband saying, "Hey, together we are agreeing we are not borrowing money. So, there's going to be no avenue for debt. So, we're going to get rid of the credit cards.

We're getting rid of this or that." And and start living on a budget. So, start practicing living on less than you make now, and that will [music] create the habit. So, pain is a great teacher. And people that have a lot of pain and sacrifices they go through Baby Step 2, [music] they're like, "I'm done.

When I'm done, I'm done." >> you're not going back. But if you bypass the hot stove, you may not have learned a lesson. >> That's right, but I think you can still do it. We still people you know, we see people [music] do it, but um but I think it's very very wise that you're cautious about this.

>> [music]

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All right, let's go to Sylvia in Seattle. Hey, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. >> Absolutely. My I am interested in your thoughts on paying off my mortgage as a whole in one payment or splitting it up in 2 years to

reduce the amount of tax burden I would have to pay with a large sum.

Where is the tax burden coming from? Are you selling off assets? Well, no. I'm just saying my income tax if I pay $150,000 in one sum, that will take me into a higher tax bracket. Where if I split them amount in 50 to $50,000

per year, then that keeps me in the lowest tax bracket. I I'm retired. I'm 73 years old. I have social security and

my 401k the funds to pay for the um

the mortgage which comes out of my 401k.

>> that's traditional and therefore it increased your income tax. Got it. Okay.

How much do you have in the 401k?

About 600 About 700,000.

And how much are you going to pull out to pay off the home?

It's $129,000 right now.

Do you have any other assets?

>> I'm debt Well, I have $3 million in um property. >> Oh, so you pulled out of the 401k >> And those are all paid for?

They're everything's paid for but my house. I My husband died in 2018 and I got on to the Dave Ramsey program and paid [clears throat] off my debts about $300,000.

And then I got breast cancer.

Wow, well done.

I paid everything off.

>> Yeah. It's been a tough couple of years. So, how much do you Did you um Did you run the numbers and do you know exactly how much extra you'll be paying because of the tax bracket if you paid it off all in one lump sum?

Well, my income is 60,000 a year.

So, I can pay off about 40,000 safely to 50 a 50,000

safely and keep me in a lower tax bracket, the lowest tax bracket for my state. Okay.

I mean, I wouldn't wait because of the taxes. I would calculate and go, "Okay, I know it's going to be an extra, let's say, $10,000 total in what I actually will owe the IRS, and I'm okay with that

for the idea of being completely debt-free, not paying any more interest on my mortgage, and having that peace of mind." And so, that's kind of the trade-off here, but I also wonder if there's a different way to do this. And I'm wondering if you would maybe sell one of the properties, pay off your mortgage, and sock away the rest in an investment account to sort of diversify your portfolio anyways.

That That is a thought.

Um the kids have interests in in the property and the housing properties and they're resistant wanting not wanting me to sell it because their vacation It's a vacation property that's worth about $250,000.

That would easily pay it off, but What are the other properties?

>> The other property is timberland. I I live in a rural area and I grow timber.

And that's my crop.

>> Last year we >> we lost $100,000.

>> Brought in $100,000 for six acres of timber. Where did that money go?

That money went into a kind of an emergency fund and I've been using that to do home repairs and

you know, roof put a new roof on my house and Could you sell more of that?

Not for another four years. Okay. We have We have a plan you know, we have it planned out because the timber market is very it's it's a crop you know, it's like gold it goes up and down. Mhm.

And right now right now with the political climate the um

American woods are not you know, lumber is not doing well. Okay. As well as it could. >> Yeah, well I don't think you're in any kind of trouble. So if you decided to do this over two years or something, I mean I think you're going to be fine either way. So it would just be the peace of

mind that you just have personally to say it's worth paying a little extra in the penalty of the extra taxes just to know that I'm done. That I'm done and I can just live my life and not have to worry about it. And for a lot of people it's kind of worth it and especially cuz you're you're going to be fine.

And and because you have these other properties that if something ever got in trouble you could sell. That essentially is your nest egg at this point cuz you'll have you know, little over half a million left in that retirement account which is awesome but the real value here is those three million in properties.

That's right. >> why I asked if you can offload a little bit of that, maybe your least favorites but it sounds like it's mostly land plus the vacation home. >> Right. Right. All right, let's go to Sophie in Austin.

Hi Sophie, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

Okay, so my husband and I have been together for about 16 years. We're about

in in debt 26,000 in medical debt. Um

he currently is not working and hasn't had a paycheck since before December.

I only make part-time income. Um

I work Tyra, you're breaking up on us, Sophie. Can you speak directly into your phone?

Um

So, I heard 26K medical debt. He hasn't worked since December. You're working part-time. What are you making?

Um well, part-time I make about 120 a day depending on how many days I can work. What does that turn into a month?

It just depends. Sometimes it's 600 a month. Sometimes it's less than that. Um come August I'll be making 2,600 a month.

Okay. How how are you guys paying bills right now?

Well, um I don't know. I paid all of the month of

May. Um I found out like I just So, my husband left. He went to a different state and just kind of left me and the kids here. It's like he kind of just threw a bomb and we're taking care of it on our own. Um my parents have helped, but Oh, wow.

Okay. So, your marriage is falling apart. He's left.

Yeah. Is he wanting a divorce? Like is he going to be going through some proceedings?

Um we've tossed it around. It's definitely in consideration. Why did he Why did he leave?

He said that he left to go work with some friends.

Uh but he's been gone about a month now and he's only sent us maybe about $700

since he's been gone and that has basically not covered much of anything.

So, I've had to lean on my >> know Do you know said Do you know said friends?

I know the friends, yeah. And they're they're really working.

Yeah, they say that they're working.

Okay. Well, I mean, at this point he should just come home and work cuz he can do, um, you know, minimum wage job

and make more than this.

Yeah, and before he left, I practically begged him to stay and it's like, you can work here. You don't need to go work there. Um, I think our priorities are different and I get that we're both stressed, we're both overwhelmed, but his tendency to leave is very much a

pattern and I'm at the point where I'm like, should the kids and I just call it quits, just move out and file for divorce, and start fresh, and sell everything. Do you guys own the home? If I'm being honest, we do own the home, but the problem is is I, since he's been gone, I've been having to deal with all these finances, everything's in his name. My name's not on anything and so I can't actually sell anything to help.

Um, and I don't have, all I have is $1,600.

I opened up my own bank account and moved my paycheck over there and that's all I have and that's not enough to move out. >> No, um, no, it's not. It's, um, gosh, Sophie, I'm so, I'm so sorry. So,

I mean, I would make one la- last ditch effort and saying, if you don't, I mean, it's kind of an ultimatum. If you don't come home You've opted out of this family. and us work on this marriage together, um, [music] then yeah, you probably will be looking at a at a future where you're not together. And that that then that will be his choice, Sophie. That's his choice to do that.

>> [music] >> And then in that case, yeah, you need some good family and community around and stable income. >> Yep, and you'll have to go [music] through the proceedings and then he will probably have to to pay and, you know, get the >> will be split But but again, the when we get there. >> and the hope is that it's reconciled [music] and you have to be able to and I would give him that option, but he has to choose.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruze hosting with George Kamel and we are answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

We're talking about your life and your money. All right, kicking us off this hour is Ja- uh Jason in Jackson.

>> twister. Yeah. Hey Jason, welcome to the show. Hey, how are y'all? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So, I'm basically contemplating if it's a good decision to go back to school and accrue about $65,000 worth of debt. Okay.

>> Now, I would be going back part-time, so I'd be remaining a full-time worker during uh All right. What are you going to school for? Um civil engineering. Nice. It's a good field. What are you doing now?

I have an associate's in um AutoCAD technology.

Okay. So, you're you're kind of adjacent to the civil engineering world now in what you do? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Very I pretty much do it. I've I just don't have the degree for it. What are you making?

Um I make around $62,000 a year. That's

a pretty good income.

To not have a four-year degree.

Yeah, and I would be increasing it to about 82. If you had the degree.

Yes, sir. Okay. So, we're going to spend 80 to make 20 more, take you four years to break even. That's without interest and without the payments. I'm I'm trying to figure out how we can cash flow this thing cuz I love the the goal and the dream. >> Are you working for a company right now that you would probably stay at if you had this other degree?

Yes, and that that's a big thing pushing this. My top out right now in my current position isn't all that much compared to what it could be if I do go get that 4-year degree. Okay, and >> um I would be increasing my top out from 77 to 112. Okay. Okay.

And the company now, have you talked to their HR department? Is there any benefits of any level of tuition that's paid if you choose to stay to work with them?

Um so right now that's a gray area.

Hasn't happened in the past. Okay.

>> not something to rely on. Okay. But you So what makes it gray and not just like no, that's not an option? Did they kind of open a door because of a conversation you had with them?

Possibly, but nothing's guaranteed as of right now. Okay. And what college have you gotten accepted into?

Um Oregon State University, which is the only college in the United States that offers this program online.

There's no other civil engineering programs that are online in the country?

None that are ABET-accredited.

Oh, interesting. Hm. So they can charge what they want for it, it sounds like.

Pretty much. >> How many years is this program?

Um so you can the max you can go on it is 10, so they don't require you to be very aggressive at it, but I'm guessing I'll be doing it since I'm I'll be part-time. Probably it'll probably take me about 6 years.

Oh, wow. >> guessing I'll be doing it.

I don't love that.

It's already going to take forever to get there, and then it's going to take you another another whole bunch of time to pay it off. That's right. Yeah.

Um it doesn't sound like a great plan, not only from the debt aspect, but also

the timeline aspect. So I'm just wondering is there There's no colleges

in Jackson or near Jackson or in your state to do

it locally cheaper. >> at all. Yeah.

There is, but it's in person and you know, that would take away from my current income and I do have bills, which is would be the only reason I couldn't couldn't do that.

>> What would that What does that option look like? I'm just curious. Would it take you a 2 years to complete or is it 4? It would be probably about 4. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And do they offer any

tracks of having classes at night that

if you did go to work full-time and then you were a student?

No, ma'am.

You'd have to be during the day.

Yes, ma'am. >> Okay.

Yeah, I don't know I mean Yeah, Jason, I just I in good faith I couldn't tell you and I mean the jump in income is it it's good, right? But it's not double, right? What you would make and if it takes you 6 years to complete

and then actually I mean you you won't see that money for Yeah, I'm wondering can you can you just stack cash for 2 years and then pursue this?

Um potentially and as of right now I'm on track to be debt-free in about 5 years. How much debt do you have?

Um 58,000. What kind of debt is that?

So I have about 20,000 in a vehicle and

then another 35 in a house.

Oh, and then on a mortgage?

Yes. Wow, how is it so low?

So y'all aren't going to like this, but it's a it's a mobile home. It was a very temporary fix to a a problem That was my fear. that I was having. Okay. So this thing's like going down in value.

Yes. Yes, that is. >> What is it worth today?

Um about 64.

I had it appraised last year. And what's the car worth?

The car is worth let's see and that's on two vehicles. One is on I think it's

worth 18 last I checked and the other one 16. Why do you have two vehicles?

So one of them is a It's a side-by-side. Y'all consider that a vehicle, right? I consider it a toy.

>> [laughter] >> That is in the way of you pursuing your dream. One is is a toy then, yes. And you won't have time to do that if you're pursuing school and working full-time, right?

That is right, which is mainly just used around the house and all that. Can we do some math together? You ready for this, Jason? You're telling me you got 20K worth of these car loans and the toy. They're worth 34 total, right?

Yes, sir. So you could profit 14 off of that. You could profit about 29 from your mobile home if you sold it.

You tracking with me?

Yes, sir. That gives you $43,000 and you go rent somewhere and use that 43 grand to start cash flowing this degree and you save up the other 20 over the next couple of years cuz you'll be debt free. You freed up those payments.

Now we can save that cash.

Yes, sir.

I think we just found the answer. I don't think you'll like it, but that's that's what I would do if I was in your shoes. >> In a heartbeat. Cuz everything in your life right now is going down in value and you owe payments on it. So what if you rented for a season, worked on this degree, and finished it even sooner?

Yeah, finish it in 4 years versus 6 cuz you work your butt off doing it online.

And yeah. Save a couple hundred bucks a month to cash flow the final years and you're there.

Okay. Okay. The only problem is is in the small town that I am from, there is not very [clears throat] many rental options.

I bet you can find something, Jason.

Nobody would be willing to rent a room to you? They would. It's just extremely high from what I've seen in the past, which is why I went with the mobile home option. What's high?

Um I think last time I looked

I I tried I tried to find the cheapest.

It was about $800 to rent a mobile home.

No, no, no, we're not talking about renting a mobile home. We're renting an apartment.

Oh, an apartment? >> Or a house or or a room in a house with roommates. So, they're looking for a roommate. >> Let's just take mobile homes off the table. Okay, yeah, I haven't looked at that market at all, really. >> Okay, so that's probably what I would do. Yes. >> Cuz you're bringing home over four grand a month right now?

Yes, sir. So, let's keep that rent to no more than a thousand bucks a month.

Yes, sir. And you'll be better off than being underwater in this mobile home in a couple years and it's worth nothing.

And Jason, too, your income can continue to go up. You said your the the ceiling was around 75, I think you said. So, you still through these these next four years while you're in school and you're going to go to school cash flowing at the way George has laid it out. Your income's going to continue to go up. So, >> [music] >> yes, I think it's a great move to do it but you would have to cash flow, which means you're going to make some big decisions.

>> [music]

>> You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more.

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>> [music] >> So, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. [music] And we now have so many people and

they're asking questions, George. So, we can actually start to see some trends of questions people are asking.

>> It's like being able to see people's Google searches, but >> Yes, I know. >> financial. >> But, there's a lot around insurance and investing. And so, one of the main questions is how do I know how much

house I can afford based on my salary and financial situation? Um so, again,

insurance and investing was asked a lot, but I just saw here the most asked question is around buying a home. So, the core rule here is that your more monthly mortgage payments should never exceed 25% of your monthly take-home pay. And that 25% will include your principal, interest, property taxes, homeowners insurance, PMI, HOA fees. All

of that is included in that 25%.

And why we say that a fourth of your take-home pay is so that it frees up the rest of your money. 75% of the money that you have then can be going towards debt. If you have consumer debt, you can be using it for investing or saving. And so, what happens is people can quickly get into a home and it's 50% of their

take-home pay and they just don't have a lot left when it comes to even just food, right? And and paying basic bills.

>> a blessing. That's right. So, that's why it's conservative. It's so that you have more money left over to pay off the mortgage early, invest for college, go on vacation, upgrade the car, so you actually have a life instead of just a house.

So, Ask Ramsey is a great tool, can help you determine how much house you can afford based on your specific financial situation. Go check it out for yourself. Ask your question today, go to ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Yeah, it's a I Have you Have you gone on it a lot, George?

>> Oh, I use it a lot. It's fun. It's my only friend as I just chat with Ask Ramsey cuz it'll talk back to me. And it talks to you.

Gives you some some encouragement. >> It's the only one who wants to nerd out with me. Like, let's crunch some numbers. >> wondering about this?

That's all we're always my follow-up. I love the follow-ups of like, have you thought about this? And you're like, show me more, tell me more.

All right, let's go to Mary in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely, how can we help?

Well, I own $178,000

in debt and I have probably another 20,000 will be added to that by the end of the year. Ooh. Um I make about 125 a

year, between 120 and 125.

Um and I'm kind of wondering but the problem is is my monthly cash flow.

So, it's getting getting ahead as it stands. I'm an LLC and I am not

currently taking out enough for taxes

and that just keeps adding every year.

So, I'm wondering if it's time to consider bankruptcy.

No. >> wow. Okay, good. For a thousand reasons, but number one, you're not going to be able to discharge the IRS debt in bankruptcy.

How much do you owe in taxes?

Oh, goodness. I owe 46,000 in back taxes

and I have yet to file 2025, which will be the most likely additional 20,000 by the end of the year. Oh, that's where that 20 came from, okay. Did Did that 46 count in your 178, that number you gave us?

Yes. Okay. What's the other debt?

So, the other debt is a hundred thousand well, about 96,000 in student loans.

Um and then I have probably $35,000

in credit card debt.

Uh I'm paying 2,500 a month right now on

credit cards. Ooh. Um 500 to a debt relief program, which would only take about 20,000. So, um

since bankruptcy's not an option, I'm wondering should I throw my money at my

credit cards that the debt relief would not take um and increase my monthly cash

inflow or do I just need to crunch it

and focus on taxes? Um well, the IRS

always gets moved to the front of your debt snowball. So, unless, which I don't know if you can, if you want to go try to get a loan for that 46, pay off the IRS, and

then you just owe a credit union instead of the IRS, it's probably a better deal.

And if that's the case, then you will just put that in your debt snowball. The issue is that debt relief company tanked your credit. So, you're I don't know if anyone's going to give you a dollar at this point cuz that's how these companies work. They tell you to stop paying on the debts, give us that money instead, collections comes after you, and they try to settle with collections.

Yes. So, have you talked to the IRS yet?

Um I I haven't. I'm on a payment plan

Okay. with them. So, I So, I'm good with that.

Um but it's the now taking out current taxes to not get more in debt.

Yeah. >> Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you need to start paying your quarterlies, especially here in 2026, Mary. Have you done that already? Like have you set that up for this calendar year?

Um no, I'm taking out my CPA takes out

monthly payroll, and they take out taxes there. Um, >> But they did not do that in 2025.

Uh, no. Uh-uh. No. What I did is not enough. Um, and which is why I've not filed yet, because I was kind of shocked at how much I owed in 2024, uh, even with my my uh, write-offs. So, I've just not filed yet, because I know I'm going to owe more in, and I can't pay right now. How

long have you had a CPA?

Uh, two years, three years? And they didn't

catch any of this?

Um, no. I No, they kind of send me an

email, and they're like, let us know when you want to do payroll. So, I'll just say, "Hey, let's do 2,000 payroll, or let's do 3,000, or whatever I was

able to submit in billing, cuz I'm really bad about getting all my billing submitted." Um, so, and that's that's kind of it.

I'm not really even sure how much I need to be keeping out. Um, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm really scared.

>> What are they even doing for you? They're giving you zero advice. They're not telling you to withhold enough for taxes and pay your estimates. We're giving you more tax advice than your CPA has. Okay. Based on what you told us. I don't know, but How much are you making a year, Mary?

Uh, I 125, you said that. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, 125. >> What kind of business is this?

I'm a mental health therapist, and I'm an LLC, so I contract. Okay.

Well, the You're not going to bankrupt on the student loans or the IRS. So, this is a moot point anyways, and I would I wouldn't tell you to file anyways. You can clean this up, but it's going to take a lot of focus, and it's going to take some time.

Okay. Are you able to pick up extra clients, Mary, and work more?

I am I'm really working at my max right now. I'm working about 6 days a week, um, and I'm a single mother, so I don't want to take that extra time from my child. Okay.

Yeah, well, there's going to, you know, I'm glad you're working that much. That's That's encouraging because the income is going to be the thing that's going to matter probably the most in this situation. Um but yeah, it's going to It'll take Yeah, it's going to take you a 4 to 5 years to kind of clean all this up.

>> You're going to be throwing thousands at the debt every month and extra more than than just the minimum payments.

Otherwise, this is going to be a a 10 to 20-year journey. Are you on a really tight budget, Mary?

Uh yes, I am. I mean, I keep myself on a tight budget. >> Good. How much margin do you have per month to throw at debt?

I have after everything, all necessities, I have 1,400 a month left.

I current currently pay about 360 a month out of pocket for counseling, and if need be, I can I can forgo that for a

little bit. >> Pause that for maybe a a year or something if you need to.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, cuz I think the I think the goal would be gosh, even 2,000 a month, it's still going to be um Yeah, cuz you you're going to have about $200,000 to clean up. And so, if you factor in, you know, 24,000 a year, that's still 83 months at two grand a month being thrown at the debts. Now, you're throwing a lot at the debts already. You said you had 2,500 in credit card payments plus the IRS uh

plus the student loans. What do all those payments add up to a month?

Um oh goodness, what do The IRS is 700,

um the credit is 2,500, and then the student loans are 1,000. Okay, so $4,200

is already out the door every every time you get paid. And my guess is you probably take home around seven grand a month if you factor in taxes.

>> I on the low end, I bring home about 10

with before taxes. Okay. When you start factoring after taxes, I think what got us into hot water is forgetting that taxes are part of the game, so if you can make that seven and start paying those taxes, it will help. >> And the positive thing, Mary, is as you start paying off that lowest, even the credit card, that's going to free [music] you up a couple hundred bucks a month to keep throwing at that.

That's where the debt snowball momentum really happens. But, yeah, you got a You got a a marathon ahead of you, Mary, but you can do [music] this.

>> [music]

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> One of the best [music] parts of our job is when we get to hear from people and their stories of how that how they are winning. And we just got this great review from EveryDollar EveryDollar app.

Uh, a fan said, "Just being able to use every dollar and see all the extra we had every single month month was very motivating. We'd have thousands of extra dollars and we can just throw it at the mortgage. Absolutely amazing." Well, if you guys want to take control of your money and find some extra margin, make sure to start every dollar for free and you can do that in the App Store or Google Play.

All right, let's go to Brittany in Raleigh. Hi Brittany, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely, how can we help?

Um, so we are currently on baby step two, me and my husband, and we have a little over 100,000 in debt. We have personal loans, a credit card, and a truck payment. So, my

question is which one do we start with?

I know that baby step two calls for the lowest amount, but one of our loans has a lien on my car with it. So, would that be where we start since it's such like a high-risk loan, or should we start with

the credit card, which is the lowest amount? What kind of loan is this? Is it like a title loan, or is it a personal loan secured against the title, like from a credit union? >> It's It's a personal loan. Okay.

>> With a Yeah. Mhm, how much is that?

It's 18,000 now.

And what's your other debts? What What do they amount to?

Um, the we have a credit card that's 13,000, a truck that's 36,000,

um, a 401k loan for 15, and another

personal loan for 28,000.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. What's the truck worth?

Um, well, looking on Kelley Blue Book, it's worth between like 22 and 25.

And do you guys have anything in liquid cash right now in the bank?

Um, we have our reserve $1,000 emergency fund, so we're in baby >> How much do you guys make a year, Brittany? [clears throat] Um, well, I'm a stay-at-home mom currently. I do go back to work during the summer at like a preschool. My husband, he makes roughly 90 to 95,000 and

he made more and we recently moved and he took an unknown pay cut. So, he was making more and it was helping with the debt, but You said an unknown pay cut?

Yes. >> Like he didn't know that he would be making less? >> company. Yes, it was the same company and the same job position, but he his job runs on like the routes and stuff.

He delivers food for a living.

And his when he runs routes, he gets paid for certain things and it doesn't pay as much where we moved to.

And he didn't know that ahead of time when he was you know, signing the paperwork?

No. Hm.

Well, you got 100k in debt and about 100

to pay off. The goal would be to get out from under this truck. What's the payment on that thing?

620 a month. Mhm.

And what about the personal loan?

Um Against the car? >> The one with the against the car, it's 480 a month. Wow. So, right there you'd free up a nice chunk of change if you got rid of both of those. >> rid of that truck, yeah. What's the smallest debt that's up next based on the balance?

Um, the smallest debt that is up next

would be the credit card and it's at 13,000.

And that's all on one credit card?

Yes, it's a bank credit card.

Okay. What are y'all using it for?

Um, well, it's max currently. Um, but it was just used for groceries, gas, just kind of making up for the loss of income that he had when we moved. We moved about a year ago.

So, you spent Okay. But then there's the personal loan as well. What was that used for?

Which one? The lien?

>> Both of them. >> On the car? Um, one was for our old house And we lived. We used it to

um do renovations and fixing it up, and when we sold it, we didn't sell it for what we wanted to to be able to pay that loan back. And then the other one was for moving cost and

just catching up on everything.

>> What caused you guys to move?

Um well, it was kind of free choice move. We decided that we wanted to and the job we he moved for work as well.

You moved for work, but you get paid less?

Uh yeah. We It was unexpected, though.

Like we he was told that he would be making about the same amount as he did.

And then when we got moved and everything settled in, it just kind of lowered. It's not a huge significant amount, but it's definitely enough to notice. Like a thousand bucks a month?

Yeah, around that, yeah. Which is what you guys are used to living on, which caused the $13,000 in credit card debt.

Thousand bucks a month that you lost.

>> in the hole every month right now, or do you have enough to cover all the bills and debt payments and have anything left over? We have um somewhat left over. I'd say we have between like three and five hundred left over every month. [clears throat] Okay. So the goal now is to do a detailed budget and to find all the money we can in this $95,000 income and then some.

That might mean he's working a second job and you're picking up more work and you guys tag team and he high-fives you on the way in and you go to work. Cuz right now we need a couple of thousand dollars a month to throw at this debt.

Yes. That's the only way out. I mean, and again, getting out of that truck is going to be a real blessing if you can find the amount you're underwater on, about 10 grand, and then sell it. Do you guys have any other vehicle you could use right now? No. That's your one car for the family?

>> Well, there's a car with my lean on it and then the short payment and the truck. So we have two vehicles, but both of them and one has a lean and one's a loan for a car. >> Right, but if you got rid of the truck and you took it down from $36,000 to $10,000 and you were a one-car family for a bit, that would be you could do that. Okay.

Yes. >> Do you both feel that? He feels that, too? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, so I mean, this is going to be a uh this will be a journey, Britney, but and it's going to create a lot of sacrifice for you guys. Meaning like that, like that kind of thing, right? You're taking from 36 to 10.

Mhm. Right? And and that's a sacrifice, but for 1 year, 2 years, until maybe we save up some cash on the side and buy a crappy $5,000 car for him. Like that that's what it's going to be, you know? So, like there >> Yeah. there has there has to be something drastic that changes from a lifestyle perspective and income perspective, and it's going to cause you guys to be really really uncomfortable.

Um and it's going to be hard. It's going to be really hard, but it's doable.

That's the wild thing is that you guys may look up and be like, "Okay, he can actually Yeah, work work longer and pick up some more routes and bring in an extra two grand a month, and then Britney on the weekends you're working somewhere, you know, bringing in two two grand a month, and that's an extra four grand. Just You know what I'm saying? Like it's these these opportunities, but it costs time, it costs energy.

You guys are going to be really tired, but it's not your whole lives. It is going to be for a season of your life.

Um probably two to three years.

But then you you look on the other end of this, George, and it's like, "Okay, we did it." But the only way out is that. Yeah. That's the hard thing. I wish there was an easy button.

>> we you tried those easy buttons and they were shortcuts into more debt. And so now we got to do it the hard way, which is make more, spend less, use the margin to knock out the next smallest debt and the next smallest debt. So, no, I don't The lien doesn't need to go to the top of the debt snowball. You just need to put these all in the debt snowball and attack the little one with a vengeance, Yeah. >> and cut your lifestyle down to nothing.

And the good thing is too, you know, like once that credit card cuz I'm sure the interest rate is 25, 28% who knows.

You know, once that's paid off, you know, the the interest and the payment, right? Is freed up. So that's a that's a couple, you know, hopefully 100 bucks, right? That you keep throwing at the other debt.

And so you'll start to get some momentum, but it's going to be a it's going to be a a trip around the sun, George, for >> It's a stark reminder. It's so easy to go into debt in America today. At every corner you can rob the 401k, get the personal loan, max out the credit card, get a lien against your car, even if it's paid off. And then it's so hard to get out.

>> Take a take a little bit of a income, you know, setback and you just fill it in with the credit card and you just keep on moving. I mean, you see how it happens, right? >> is even when you make more, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to save more No. >> or have more cuz your your lifestyle creeps up with it.

>> find that a third of people making six figures is even get edging up to about half now, are paycheck to paycheck.

Yeah. They're feeling it. Here's a good example. You guys are making great money, well above the average household income in America, and there's not much to show for it because of all these debt payments. So that would give me some anger and urgency to get out of this once and for all.

For your family, for those kids, for your future. You guys are worth that. So find whatever income you can, cut whatever expenses you can, and get on the same page and get on a plan to go never again.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 8:18.

Remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors as it

is today.

Zig Ziglar said, "Rich people have small TVs and big libraries, and poor people

have small libraries and big TVs." Sick

burn from Zig. All right.

>> What you value. >> [laughter] >> The Do you remember Well, and he and he was a you know, big in the '80s and '90s.

We're all big Do you remember those big The old school TVs? The old school big TVs. >> box. I don't even know how you got it into your house. They look like they were 2,000 lbs. >> I know. Oh man, too good.

All right, let's head to Noah in Springfield, Missouri. Hi Noah, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you all for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I'm 19 and I'm looking at buying a house at the end of the year. And I just wanted to see what you guys would do in my situation. Well, nice. Why are you wanting to buy?

Well, I'm thinking $200,000 is the max that I can buy.

I have 34 and 1/2 grand saved up.

I'll make another 8 grand. That's base pay minus my monthly expenses by the end of November.

The big bulk of my money is I'm CDs.

They don't expire until the end of November. I got credit score of 741.

Um Okay, what kind of consumer debt do you have, Noah?

None. Zero debt, amazing. What are you

making a year? Or you said 8K a month is what you're bringing home. You said that's that's how much you can add to the down payment fund?

Yeah, so so I'll make that I'll make another 8K in 5-6 months. What do you make a month? What's your after-tax income monthly?

Um 21 or 2200.

That's how much you make per month?

Yes. So you're making like 24 a year take home?

No, it's 41 grand a year.

Okay. So you're talking I'm just confused on the math.

Okay. I would budget for You're paid bi-monthly, so 1,100 a paycheck base pay. And that's two times two times a month?

Yes. Okay, so that is 2,200 a month.

Yeah, did you get a big tax refund?

No.

Well, here's our housing parameter, Noah, just so you understand. We recommend the mortgage payment be no more than a quarter of your after-tax monthly income on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. So I just crunched the numbers here for you on our mortgage calculator.

A $200,000 home with 42,000 down on a 15-year fixed, you're looking at about $1,700 out of your 2,200.

Okay. So, that is you're going to be

poor. You're going to have $200 left over to basically fund everything else in your life. So, you're not ready to buy a home, and I don't think you're in desperate need of a home. Are you living with family right now or renting?

I'm not really with family right now.

Okay. I would work on your income.

That's going to be your greatest wealth-building tool. It's going to give you the ability to buy a home one day and afford the mortgage payment. But, right now, you should be focused on how can I make more in my career?

Okay. >> Yeah, because that monthly that monthly payment's going to be kind of your make or break, Noah, just on what you really can afford. And if you keep saving up a big down payment, that'll be great cuz hopefully you'll continue to get raises, you know, over the next few years. And I wouldn't And I wouldn't rush into the housing market.

When you're ready to buy a home, that's going to be a great time, but it may be in another 3 to 4 years, and that's okay. And you can rent in the meantime, um or, you know, >> Okay. where you are. But, I And when these CDs expire, I would take them out of CDs, and I would put them in a high-yield savings account.

Our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union is a great That That's a great place to open an account. You can get a free checking account, and they have a great high-yield savings option, too. And so, I would put my money in there versus a CD. And And yeah, and just keep piling money cuz you do want a fully funded emergency fund as well on top of your down payment, so some of that 34,000 can be set aside as an emergency fund.

And just continue.

and where you are financially is amazing. Like, the fact you have no debt, the fact you have $34,000 saved, and you have a goal that you're working towards for this home. Like, all of this is so great. And so, I would say I just I wouldn't be as urgent as maybe you are and give yourself a little bit of time to get that income up.

Okay, so just rent in the meantime?

Yeah, just rent or keep living with family. I mean, you're 19. I would just focus on what can I do to grow this career, grow this income so I can speed up this process. But you're on the right path. Well done.

All right, let's go to Nathan in Rochester, New York. Hi Nathan, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely, how can we help?

So, uh about 9 months ago I bought a truck for about $29,000.

I sat down recently with the everything again. I still owe $29,000 on it and

been making my payments every month and I need help trying to figure out how to get out of this situation. What's the interest rate?

Uh 14%. Well, that'll do it. Ouch. The

interest payment you're making is probably as much as your monthly payment, so they're just washing each other out. Mhm. How much can you sell it for, Nathan?

Uh I just got it quoted for 17.5.

Why is it so low? Did you roll over negative equity?

No, I did not. >> Was it for a trade-in or a personal sale? And where'd you get it quoted?

Uh it was at a local dealership. I was looking I was just trying to figure out what I could get it for. They evaluated it 17.5. Yeah.

>> Who's they? The dealership? Um yeah, the dealership, yes. Well, it's the worst place to get it valued. I would look at the private party value on Kelley Blue Book. >> Mhm. Cuz there's no way a $29,000 car 9

months later is worth 17 grand.

>> No, it should be more like 22-ish, probably. >> Now, obviously you got screwed on this deal, so they may have sold you a $17,000 car for 29 grand for all I know.

I'm especially charging you 14% interest. Was your credit just shot?

No, uh I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was around the high 780s.

How did you get a 14% in I mean, I just don't understand that.

Yeah, I um I I don't I don't know but like everything >> No, I do not. It's that so I when I bought the the truck, I was at my job I was making 28 dollars an hour and then at the end of beginning of this year my whole company got let go and I've taken a almost seven dollar pay cut at my current job. What are you making now?

I make around 2162 an hour. Okay, so

about 44,000 a year probably. Correct. Correct.

>> Okay. Well, this this truck needs to go and so you might need to save up the amount you're underwater on just to get rid of it and that would still be worth it and you go get you a beater car to get you from A to B in the meantime until you can save up and buy something used in cash.

But there's no other way to get out of the payments.

That plus all like the the insurance cuz I'm 21 my insurance is around 300 dollars a month. Yeah, that's expensive for a young guy. A lot of risk for the insurance companies.

Yep and with all with the gas and everything at the end of every month I'm scrunching pennies to try and make it.

>> credit score is still good, I'd go down to your local credit union and see if they can give you a loan for the difference you're underwater on but still try to get top dollar for it.

>> And yeah. What's your payment right now?

I'm paying 586 a month.

Ouch, plus the 300 in interest. So you're going to be And it's not even doing a dent to the loan. That just hurts. Cuz well, you're probably paying 586 in interest. So, every month it's just it's not moving the needle on the balance. And so, that's that's the issue. >> at the I looked at the loan. It's I think it was like $11.14 a day on interest. Ouch.

Yeah, and Nathan, remember this rule of thumb, too, that your what you have in

motors and wheels should be no more than half of your annual take-home pay. And you >> [music] >> exceeded that getting a $30,000 truck while making $45,000 a year. So, keep

those vehicles below that so that you don't get [music] stuck in the situation again. Thanks for the call.

Thanks to everyone in the booth. George, thanks for a great show. And thank you,

America. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 160. Stop Trying To Borrow Your Way Into Freedom | September 26, 2025


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---

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Cooper is in Dallas or Fort Worth, Texas. Hey Cooper, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, how are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so I had a question. Uh, we've been getting into commercial landscaping and

contracting, you know, construction kind of stuff. >> Good. >> Um, and I've just had this question. Um,

we don't like debt at all. Like we're totally, we just found your stuff recently. We're tracking with you on no debt, but I've been wondering about if I'm going to be spending hundreds of thousands in material, does it make sense to get some kind of card that gives me cash back, like 2% cash back or

something like that, or is that not a good idea?

>> Okay. So, what's your gross revenue on your company?

>> Um, this year it could be over over a

million, a little bit maybe.

>> What will be your profit on a million dollars?

Uh somewhere around 25%.

>> So $250,000 >> something like that. >> Yeah. Good for you. Way to go, man.

Proud of you. >> Thanks. Yeah. Lord. >> So what what I want you to do is to concentrate on that business because that business actually makes money.

The business you called me about. If you spend $100,000 and you get 2% back,

that's $2,000.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. It's irrelevant when you're running a business that's making a quarter of a million a year. >> You should be working on the quart million dollar business, not the credit card business.

>> You're taking your eye off the ball.

>> Don't take your eye off the ball.

>> Yeah. >> People get distracted. You're trying to make the bank money instead of yourself.

>> Right. >> You don't beat Visa.

You stay away from them.

You can beat your competitor and you can take care of your customer. But my point is, while you're using up this space in your brain, this your brain is so powerful it made $250,000

last year and you're wasting this powerful brain on $2,000.

>> Yeah. Dupty, don't do it.

>> Yeah. And Cooper, I I always wonder because at Ramsay, I know it's a shock, Cooper, but we don't have credit cards inside the company. We use cash and we used to even bring literally envelopes of cash like if we were on the road traveling for events and stuff. So we in

our company, you know, obviously it is so cashbased and I do wonder the psychology of a consumer or not a business, but the consumer shows studies show you do end up spending more with a credit card because there's an emotional detachment to your money. It's just that that is what it is. And I wonder in the business it's going to that principle would roll over into a business side where you may not even realize it, but you're thinking, "Oh, yeah. Well, we can just >> I'll buy I'll buy that extra.

I'm getting a load of stuff, but I'm going to go ahead and buy this extra >> because I'm getting 2% back." >> Because I'm getting 2% back. It could happen. >> I don't I don't have any data to prove it. >> Hopefully spend, you know, to get like 10 grand back.

I was doing some of the numbers of what we had. >> You don't get 10 grand back. >> Well, that's a truck.

Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I I really I would spend my time and my brain power doing what you're doing instead of trying to trick Visa and win against them. Um 100% of

the time they have a plan to win.

And if you think you're beating them, you know, I'll give you another example. Uh guys out there, because this always comes up, Rachel, I get airline miles.

That is so humorous.

78% of the airline miles are never redeemed.

Wow. That makes your little theory useless. That's eight out of 10 airline

miles do not ever see the light of day.

And if you did want to actually redeem your airline miles, you have to burn so many of your brain calories and Jupiter has to be aligned with Mars in the age of Aquarius. and you happen to get the perfect person on the phone to actually show up. >> They've made it they have made it easier. So So to that point, it used to be more I think like that 100%. But the but south I mean they some of them yes have protection >> easier than impossible but not easy. I

can call and book an airline. Boom. Just like that. >> Well, you don't call you do it online. You do it on the app and you just change the number. But the point is though, that's the thing is that if the airline ticket, if you need a free airline ticket via your credit card points, if

if you can't go on a vacation because of an airline ticket, you shouldn't be going on vacation. So, the idea that you're, you know, living this system in order to do something, if you couldn't afford to do it in the first place, you don't need to be doing it overall. So, >> but I'm I'm It's always humorous to me because I've never interviewed a millionaire that said, "Dave, you know, the way we got here was airline miles.

That's how it happened. That airline miles that was our financial breakthrough. >> Yeah. And >> and that's just horse crap.

>> Well, it's >> I mean, it's just bull. >> I know. And I think in an overarching mindset to so many people we've talked to who have said, you know, we played the credit card game and then we chose not to. We're done.

Is there is a level of peace when you just live in the present, right? You go and last night shopped online and you pay for it and you're done. Like it's it's done. Like when you live in the present, there's not something out in the future that you're looking for.

And so there is a true from a mathematical standpoint an advantage there and an emotional where you're like, I'm not at all even thinking about a bill because it's done. It's it's over.

>> Seriously. >> Yeah. There's a there's a power. >> There's a piece to that. You're right.

But there's also a that brain power can be used to make you way more money than than you would have gotten a free biscuit with. I mean, it's just it's the the numbers are ludicrously low and the

percentage of people that actually cash it in is almost zero. It's the biggest screw job and yet everybody walks around acts like they're sophisticated. >> Well, and not to mention the fees and I just saw it's um like a platinum card or something has upped their annual fees.

The the amount of money you have to even spend to have the card. You have to consider that too. You remember?

>> I know. I was trying to think it was a plat. It may have been a platinum. It was something cuz it had to do with a lounge in an airport cuz it was a whole article and then these people were joking about the lounge cuz the lounge was kind of a joke.

Some lounges I think are nice but this one was like a it's like Ritz crackers and cheese, you know, and they were like, "Oh my gosh, I'm spending this much to keep a credit card to get me in a crappy lounge when I do like the whole thing. It's just silly. It's like this.

fee to get $4 >> upping those annual fees." I mean, >> this one says MX just upped it from $6.99 to 8.95 year. MX up there. Maybe that's what I saw. >> The MX Platinum card was $6.99 and now it's $8.95 yearly. >> Well, MX is just double dumb. But yeah, so yeah, $8.95 $895 to get to for the

opportunity to be your customer and spend my money. Let you good god.

>> Or you can go to Fairwinds and they're the nicest people, you know, the credit union. You deal with them and you're good. And you're good. So it is it's it's a game. people continue to try to find. >> Yeah, you can get the debt is normal be weird debit card. >> I know. We just got We just got ours uh two days ago. Winston and I did and I went on talk about an easy process. Uh

Fairwinds, thank you. Their app I went on and activated the card. You call, you do your pen and you're good to go. >> Completely free.

>> Yes. >> Not $8.95 >> and Yeah. >> for a Platinum Titanium double backflip card. Yeah.

This is just a regular old debit card and it just won't let you spend money unless you have it and stuff like that. Wow. Way to go. Fair wins.

I do like that we have a Ramsey debit card. This says, "Debt is normal. Be weird." Every time you pull it out of your pocket, you have to look at that and go, "Debt is normal. Be weird.

Debt is normal. Be weird." It's like this reinforcing message.

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[Music] Big celebration all around Ramsey today.

1100 of us are jumping up and down excited. Why? Because it's official. The

allnew Every Dollar is live, Rachel.

>> Yep. It's here. It's something that we've been working on as a team for a while.

place to apply those principles in a thing called a budget and that's always been the case if you do the budget and you do the Ramsey plan and use that to make to implement your budget you always will get out of debt build wealth uh be in a place to be generous it always works and uh this is the first time

we've ever had it all woven in to a

digital thing together. And so it's the

best way to do the Ramsey plan while doing your budget is the new Every Dollar app. So we have, like Rachel said, we spent an a bazillion dollars and man-hour and brain calories in this place getting this thing ready. And it's live. We're really excited. The baby is here. So watch the premiere now on our YouTube channel and see what it's all about. You can hear from everyday people who are using Every Dollar. They're finding thousands of dollars in margin.

Think about what you could do with thousands of dollars to get out of debt so that you could build wealth. It's pretty cool. If you do one thing for yourself today, let this be it. Watch the premiere of the new allnew Every

Dollar. It's here. And uh Rachel's prominently featured in that along with Jade and George and so forth. This could be the thing that changes everything for you because this is the one-two punch that for 30 something years we've been doing at Ramsey.

the Ramsay plan, the details of this. Boom. And then >> and it's an app on your phone, which >> And now now it's now you can hold it in your hand and do the whole thing. >> Your phone goes everywhere with you, which means your financial plan does too, which is great.

>> Yeah, it's pretty stinking incredible. Yeah, it's you're exactly right. It's convenient. Oh, and by the way, those of you that have been wise enough to combine everything with your spouse, boom, it's all right there in both of your hands, you know what the other one's doing.

Everybody knows what everybody's doing. We're on the same page. We're pulling together.

Boom. Boom. It's so powerful, you guys.

So, check it out. The allnew Every Dollar is live. Watch the premiere of the allnew Every Dollar. It's right there on YouTube on our YouTube channel and you can find thousands of dollars of margin. Andrew is in Washington. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Oh, better than I deserve. How you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Um, I just recently found out about you guys and um, I love your program and I'm trying to work it with Gazelle Intensity. Um, so we me and my wife

recently bought a house. Um, but it's

about 40% of our income. I'm trying to

build my emergency fund right now. We just got all of our credit cards paid off and the car paid off.

>> Um, >> good for you guys. >> I Thank you. Um, yeah, it's exciting.

It's exciting to actually have cash again. Um, so I guess my question is

after we saved the emergency fund, um, because this mortgage is so much of our income, would it benefit me more and we got a 30-year loan, um, to try and pay this off early so that we have more to put towards the 401k or just go to 15% into the 401k and

uh, the the mortgage will take as long as it takes?

I've seen just hardly anyone prosper

when their house payment's 40% of their take-home pay. So, I don't really know how to answer you other than to give you a a really hard answer, and that's sell your stupid house because it's way too big and too expensive. Unless your income is going to go up dramatically in the next 36 months, this is going to stunt your financial growth

because you're mathematically what we what we all in the business in the financial planning world call house poor.

You feel it in the stress when you're trying to do the budget, don't you?

>> Yeah. No, definitely. >> Yeah. So, what's your household income, sir?

>> It's about 110. Um, I know what you guys do for I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> Sorry. Um, I know exactly what hits our account more than I know the the before

taxes, but we get 8,248

every month that hits the account.

>> Okay. And, uh, what do you guys do for a living? >> So, uh, we work in organic gardening.

So, we work for a garden supply store.

Um, and we actually in order to take this job, we had to move to Washington.

And originally, um, part of the job was that I didn't have rent. We lived on site. Um, there

was a property where the business was run and we got to live in a two-bedroom house for free on that property. Um, but

then, uh, my boss sold the property last year, or well, I guess decided to sell

last year. He's just now sold. And then so we had to move, but we were having trouble finding rental property. >> So you got a payroll.

>> You moved out from out of state to take the job and then he cut your pay.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, he gave me a 50%

raise to try and as like a housing allowance. So he gave me I was making $20 an hour. Now I make $30 an hour. Um,

so it felt like a sub substantial pay bump. What does your wife do?

>> Uh, she does marketing and customer service >> for the same company.

>> Yeah, >> cuz she makes a lot more than you then.

>> Um, not at the moment. So, >> darling, $30 an hour is not $110,000 a year.

>> So, I make I think 60 and she makes 50.

I think she makes 25 and I make 30 an hour.

That's not $110,000 a year.

>> Okay. When when we were going over the raises with the accountant,

>> that's >> Yeah. Just go multiply that times 40 hours. It doesn't It doesn't come out to 110. Um >> Well, they're bringing home close to 90 and after tax. >> No, he says 8,300.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh which is $100,000 a year and uh that's >> that's after tax >> net. Yeah, $30 $30 pre-tax, isn't it?

>> $30 is his gross. >> So, no, he's not even not even close.

So, anyway, um I don't care how you got

here as much as I care how you get out of it and you learn from how you got here. You felt like you were forced to go do something that to buy something you couldn't afford and you went and did it instead of finding an alternative.

And I unless you are going to see your way to substantial raises in a very

short period of time, I can't recommend you keep this house cuz I love you and I want what's good for you. I think you bought a house you can't afford and you're going to you're going to be st you're strapped by this house and it owns you. You don't own it and you don't have the money to get ahead. So you guys got to you need to sit down and do a little better job with your math because I think it's off and um I know it's off.

uh one of these numbers is wrong, in other words. And um then figure out, okay, you know, can what what can we do

with our careers that allow us to stay in this house by causing our income to go up pretty dramatically so that the house payment becomes a smaller percentage of our take-home pay? Mhm.

>> But if you have a 30-year mortgage and your payment is I don't even know that's barely >> choosing I mean cuz that and I don't know what you would say to this, but I'm like you're either going to choose to change careers in order to keep a house, but if you guys love what you do, then you got to lose the house. Like, you know what I mean? It's >> something's got to go. >> Yeah.

Something's got to got to >> Or if this career is I don't know your arrangement, but so far it's not been good with this employer.

far it went sideways on you. Um, but the, um, because I'm not sure $10 and Yeah, $10 probably does offset an hour.

Probably did offset the rent value of that two-bedroom house. But, um, but

then you couldn't find a rental to suit you, so you went and bought a house you couldn't afford. >> Well, it's the urgency that caused probably a poor decision cuz he said, "We couldn't find somewhere to rent." And you know, and then you kind of get desperate and then you pull the trigger on something >> and then you start saying things like there's no houses. Don't ever say that.

There's no rentals. There's no price.

You cannot live here for that. Yeah.

Yeah, you can. You just didn't like that neighborhood. Yeah. So anyway, honey, I

I'm I'm afraid you can't afford the house. But if you can't get your income up, I'm going to tell you cuz I love you to sell the house. Cuz I think that house is not worth you limping for the next decade financially.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

[Music] Philip is in North Carolina. Hey, Philip, how are you?

>> Good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Thank you so much for taking my call. This might be one of the coolest things I've ever got to do.

>> Well, me too. How can I?

>> Thank you. I had a question for you uh

on some advice on a financial decision that I'm kind of considering and I just didn't know what the best way to go about it was. Uh so I'm 21 years old. I

live with my parents still have a pretty good job and I currently drive a pretty

nice car that I absolutely love but

absolutely hate paying for. And my question is whether or not I should go ahead and sell my car and buy something

that's kind of like a little rinky dink car and get out of debt tomorrow or if I

should wait a little bit and pay it off while I still live at home. And if I did that, this would kind of delay me moving out for a little while. But of course, I get to keep the car that I really do love.

>> Really, really good analysis. Well done.

Good job. How old are you?

>> Thank you. >> I am 21. >> What do you make?

>> I make about $60,000 a year. And then I also have some side work that I do that brings in about 5,000 a year extra.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on your car?

>> I have just over $20,000 on on the loan.

>> Mhm. What kind of car is it?

>> It is a 2023 bright blue Dodge Charger.

>> Oh, that's sweet. I won't blame you.

>> I love it. Yeah, I got it right after I started working full-time. Um, I'm in marketing and sales and my car broke down two weeks a like two weeks after I started the job and so I heavily upgraded and you know like I said I kind of if I could do it back over again I'm not sure if I would do it but >> yeah I was completely irresponsible but it's an awesome car. >> Yeah.

>> Philip, have you have you >> also >> Kelly Blue Book did it all.

Yeah, the it's worth now only like 22

23,000, but I have a few offers on some private sites for about what I paid for it, >> which is >> uh about 28,000.

>> Okay. >> So, you can make Okay. So, you make money. >> Yeah. So, you could go and and then >> go buy an $8,000 car and then move out and live your life without a car payment. >> Okay. So, but I'm also not like dying to move out. Like, I don't want to do it right now. Also, that's kind of the thing is the I just kind of want like that flexibility, you know what I mean?

So, I just I could pay it off by late next year, but I don't want to I don't want to tie myself down. Another thing, you're making $65,000 a year. Where's

all your money going?

>> Uh, well, I mean, I'm saving a lot of it. >> Oh, good. How much is in savings?

>> Uh, I have just over I think in total uh

closer to about 14,000 $15,000.

>> Okay.

And the reason I'm asking this is because I had kind of thought like uh you know I'll pay it off at some point.

I I'll just play the game. But then I rediscovered your content online and I realized I don't have peace and your thing is called financial peace. So I don't I really know what to do.

>> All right. So here here's the thing. Um you've apparently just discovered it because one of the things we teach is called the baby steps and it's the process that you work through from where you are today. ready, set, go. To get out of debt so that you have your freed up income to build wealth with and in your case, have a life outside your mama's basement. Right. Right.

>> And so, um, >> uh, and build wealth and build generosity. And of course, baby step one is $1,000. Anything above that that's

not in retirement goes towards the debt.

And baby step two is pay off all your debt except your house. Working them off smallest to largest. You've probably heard us say that, hadn't you?

>> Oh, yes, definitely. So that plan would dictate that you take 13 of the 14 and put it on the 20 today. That would leave you seven. And I want you debtree in 2 months.

>> You make you make $60,000

a year and you have no overhead.

>> Quit going out every night.

>> Oh, there's that.

>> Okay. So that Okay, so you can do that, Philip. But let me throw this out here. You're 21. You've got $14,000 in

savings. You could sell this car tomorrow, go buy an $8,000 car, still have $14,000 in savings, >> go rent an apartment, live your life, you're on baby step three, then you start investing. I'm like, >> I'm I'm done with the car. You could pay it off. That 100% 100% if you choose to,

>> but also that drains all of your savings for >> a Charger. Sorry, you and Dave have like a love affair over Chargers, but I'm like, "No, go get like a great Honda Civic. Charger bromance. Leave us alone." >> I know.

And I'm like, "No, no, just go get a Honda Civic and live your best life, Philip. Don't let this car be the thing that like drains your savings." I don't know. You can. That is the baby steps.

That would not be wrong. >> Yeah, it would not be wrong. The the the rule we use on cars is can you pay them off and all your debt in under two years? >> I know.

>> Otherwise, the car has to be sold. And is the car less than half your annual income? It is.

All of it. Yes, you do. But also, so you meet all the guidelines. >> You do. You'll be fine. But also plan B, crazy plan would be sell it and you can start investing like in the next couple of months with retirement. Like you could snowball your future so fast, Phillip, and then you can save up and go buy another car. Um, I don't know. I I think the car is uh I think it's a great picture of >> where does Philip want to start his 21-year-old life and beyond.

>> If I were in your shoes, >> Dave's keeping the car >> in January. Either way, I No, I would do

either one. I don't care. I'm I'm with you. There's nothing wrong nothing wrong with your suggestion. >> Completely I don't disagree with your suggestion at all. It's a it's it's 100% okay. It's also 100% okay. But by January, you need to be in your own apartment and be debtree.

>> If you're not willing to do that, you need to sell the car.

>> Okay? >> If the only way to do that is sell the car, and it's not the only way to do that mathematically, by the way. If you do what I told you to do, you can be debtree, have the car, and be in an apartment by January. Because when you get out of the house, different gears are going to start hitting in your head and you're going to go to a different place in your uh young man development

and uh you're going to you're going to start to see life different. You're going to start to make different money choices, career choices, everything. I predict that 5 years later, your income will be higher if you do that what I just told you to do.

>> Okay? >> Because you you're out there on your own and you have to buy your own milk, >> right? It just it makes a difference. It

just does. And I watched that with um our kids. Uh uh Rachel left college

straight into marriage. So she never passed back through, but her sister passed back through for a few months and then went out on her own. And I watched her change as she went out on her own.

>> I mean, it really for Yeah. It forces you to be 100% responsible for your whole life, you know? I mean, it does. It's a good thing.

>> Yeah. The lights get cut off if you don't pay the bill, you know, that kind of stuff. So, I I'm going to encourage you to get out of the house, not because you got a bad situation or toxic situation, but because you it's time to grow up, move on, >> and um and I'm going to encourage you to get the car paid off one way or the other, either by selling it and doing Rachel's plan or by working another plan that is within the guidelines, but not as smart mathematically, but it's also okay. You love the car.

We've all established that.

>> 35,000, we both would be telling you to sell it because it' be more than half your annual income, okay? In value, even if

it was paid for.

>> Because folks, if you everything that has wheels and has a motor goes down in value.

And if you have more than half your annual income invested in things that are going down in value, you don't have to scratch your head and wonder why you're broke. It's in your driveway.

It's the bass boat. It's the seed. It's the car. >> The campers. >> It's the camper. It's the whatever. If it's got wheels and or a motor, it's going down in value. Period. And when

you have too much of your mathematical juice tied up in things going the wrong way, it's almost impossible to pull it off. That's what Rachel's suggestion is coming from. >> Yeah. And the fact that we get calls, I'd say nine out of 10 calls we get on cars, they owe more >> than it's worth >> than it's worth.

The fact that he can make 8,000 on it, I'm like, >> "Yeah, >> do it." Well, make 8,000 from what he owes, but not what he originally bought it for. >> Actually walks away from the table with money, which is very unusual. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty sweet car. >> I'm getting I'm getting nods from the dudes in the booth. The guys in the booth are all going >> and you know what >> the booth dudes >> majority of women fill up >> they don't >> have no idea. >> Yeah, >> we got we we don't know. >> And if she did go out with you because of your car, you don't want her >> and then you got to bring her back home.

So, get out of your parents' house.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music] If you like what you hear, help us out by sharing the show. Click the share button or click cut a link out and send it to a friend or just tell them it's that we're here. We appreciate that.

Those fivestar reviews are very helpful.

Thank you for that because it moves the show in the algorithm out to the front when people are suggest getting a suggestion, you know, on their podcast or their YouTube or whatever it is.

Yeah, they get it all there. So, and we're on all the platforms. So, wherever you're listening on or watching on, just tell people we're here. Thank you for doing that. >> You can watch on YouTube and see that Dave and I are matching today. Did you see that? >> Black shirt and some buttons. I know.

>> And the guys in the booth all have on the new Every Dollar T. >> Oh, they do. >> So, they all look like they >> color matching. How great. >> Came out of a 1950s gym class with those white shirts. But yeah, white t-shirts.

Yeah. Very good. They look great.

They're they're they're they're snazzy looking. And Joe has his tucked in. So, I'm just saying I'm just saying that.

>> I appreciate that, Joe. >> There we go, Joe. All right. Susan is with us in Maryland. Hey, Susan. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thanks for taking my call. Um, I

have a question. So, I recently got engaged and I am uh trying to figure out

with my fiance how should we approach merging our finances after we get married when um I have a um pretty high

net worth and he has uh really no future

um investments but has a lump sum of cash.

Okay.

And how much is your net worth?

>> Uh about 2 million.

>> Okay. Way to go. How old are you?

>> Uh 53.

>> Okay. And um and what is his net worth, do you think?

>> Uh 250,000.

>> Oh, not bad. Okay. And how old is he?

>> Uh 55.

>> And what does he make?

>> About $6,000 a month. And what do you make?

>> Uh, I just retired, but I made almost 200,000 a year.

>> So, what are you going to do in retirement at the young age of 55?

>> Sure. I have not figured that out yet.

It is very recent that I just retired.

>> Okay. You're not married yet. How are you buying groceries?

>> Um, uh, how are we buying groceries? >> How are you buying groceries? You have money saved.

>> I mean, she has a $2 million net worth, so I was >> Oh. Oh. How am I? Um I have um money in

uh I have a pension. I have a pension coming in. >> Oh, okay. Great. Great. Right. What is

the 2 million invested in?

>> Um so the 2 million is

um my 401k is about 1.1. I have a Roth

IRA. I have money market. I have a

savings account.

Um so all that in total is um

about 1.6 and then uh the value or the

net value of my home is about 400,000.

>> Okay, cool. Um the um on a home or a

401k account when you get married, there's no nothing to do. You can't add someone to your 401k account. You could add someone to a deed, but it's probably not necessary. Um um then then what

you've got to determine is is this a large enough difference that you want to

make sure you're covered in the event of a divorce. Okay? And if you do, obviously there's two things you can do on that. One is prenup. Um and two is

and this is a pretty large difference. The only time we ever would say the word prenup is if there's a huge difference between the two. Okay? And generally it's not to protect you from each other.

It's more to protect you two from your weird relatives. When you have a prenup, you just go, "Ha, can't help you. I got a prenup." So, can't open a pizza parlor with her money. Sorry.

Sorry, crazy cousin Eddie. You know, so um and that's the kind of thing that helps. It helps a lot with that. The other thing it forces you to do is it forces you to talk through this.

Now, some states, and I do not know the law in Maryland, and I'm not a lawyer anyway, so you can't trust me on this, but some states uh would protect your 401k that you came into the marriage with, >> and would protect the real estate that you came into the marriage with >> and probably the Roth, too. >> And the Roth, the Roth is definitely protected.

if you didn't name him the beneficiary in the event of your death or if you got divorced, the 401k would be protected in most states.

I don't know the law in Maryland. You could ask somebody on that to find out and not Google a lawyer. Okay.

>> Yeah. I'm not sure that we're going to stay here. Um just because, you know, I I now that I'm not working, I don't need to stay here. He works remotely. I guess my bottom question is >> what am I missing? >> He's he's got he's got a lump sum

>> that he's not doing anything with. It's 250,000. He's got a lump sum >> um and no debt. But I guess my question

is should we when we merge everything,

should that lump sum be invested and we're kind of just living on our

uh mod pension and his salary. Uh yes.

>> Okay. I just don't know what to do. We don't >> And you sell your house if you leave Maryland and you take that money to buy the house in the next place.

>> Yeah. So, we have our own individual houses, but when we get married, we'll merge and we'll move to a different state. Cost of living will be less.

>> Um, >> yeah, I think if you if you sold both houses and use the equity from both houses to buy the next house, >> then you've got to think about that as well. But, um, >> paying cash.

>> Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

Your house is paid for, right?

>> No, I have 400,000 uh left over on a

$700,000. >> Oh, I thought it was a $400,000 house.

Oh, okay. Cool. That's >> You have 300 equity. And how much equity does he have?

>> Uh uh he just sold his house. So he

that's where he walked away with the um >> Oh, the 250 was that. >> Okay. So you have you Yeah. So you have 550 to buy a house in the new state and that probably'll do. >> Yeah. Susan, does it worry you at all that he's in his 50s and has no money saved? The only money he has to his name was from his house.

>> Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. I was worried. Um I didn't know about that at first. Um but after

we started getting serious um it made total sense to me he had his own business and he just kept on believing in it and pouring money into it and he liquidated his retirement

um to keep the business going and then finally just >> gave up. He gave up.

>> So there were some mistakes that he's aware of of why he's in the position he's in. >> Okay. Then it feels like it feels like >> it was postco.

>> Yeah. It feels like you're fairly new to Ramsey. So, let me give you two principles that are in conflict with each other in this discussion that we be believe in both of. Okay. Uh principle number one is where I told you earlier.

Uh I used to tell people never if you if you like your money more than the person just don't get married. If you got to have a prenup, you don't need to be married because you like your money more than you like them. A and then over the years the decades of doing what I do not only here on the air but sitting in person I found that where there's a huge differential between well like 2 million versus 250 there's a huge differential then it does help the relationship in many cases and it does help uh the the crazy cousin Eddies that are out there in the in the family tree somewhere uh to have a prenup and so that that's principle number one and that's standard teaching from this microphone that you would have heard over the last decade to two decades.

Okay.

succeed vastly in the quality of their marriage and succeed vastly in their

wealth building capability. We've got t tons of data on this to prove it. And so

encouraging the two of you to combine your pension, his income to create your future together, 100% have to do that.

Okay? And 100% whatever money your 2

million makes, if it comes into the checking account, we're going to combine it and we're going to live our life with it. Whatever money he makes from whatever, we're going to combine it. And if we're going to both throw in about two or three hundred grand on this house, we're just going to call the house our house and that's it. uh the new house in the new place >> then you know so really work to be unified and combined

>> but if you wanted to protect a few individual items like these 401ks and stuff prior to marriage then the prenup

would be in order and it's not in conflict with that but it feels like it is and and I probably would do that in your [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the Rachel Cruz show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Joe is in Colorado. Hi, Joe. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm so honored to speak with you guys. You guys are amazing. >> Well, thank you. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Um, okay. We're My husband and I have been married three years. We're a little overwhelmed. Um, we worked the

first two years to pay down $135,000 of debt. um on his student loans. We don't have any other debt. Uh but we still have 235 and it's growing um because we

have not been able to pay anything in the last year. We're actually paying for some attorney fees for my um daughter.

Uh her bio dad is um now in the picture

after eight years. It's a long story, but um basically we've been doing that for the last year. Um, I want to get on the same page with my husband and I feel like he feels I know he feels very guilty about um how he hadn't been

paying it. Um he's a recovering alcoholic and um you know he's on the right page now. Both of us are. And um we're just we're expecting a baby.

We're going to move. We're just really overwhelmed. We have no furniture. We've been renting from family.

Um so >> and Joe, y'all got a lot going on. We do have a lot going on. >> So, your current husband is a recovering alcoholic, >> correct? >> And how long has he been?

How long has he been sober? >> He's been sober eight years. >> Way to go. >> Good.

>> And the biod was from eight years ago, right? >> Correct. I was not married. >> Making sure I got my because I sometimes I get confused.

Okay. >> And what's the degree in because it's like a 300 y enough. Yeah. Who's the lawyer?

We He's not actually making as much as he could be. I think um as soon as we are able to move, he'll be able to make more. This um location is just

completely untenable. Like they um he's only making 100,000 and I know he could be making a lot more um elsewhere.

>> And what do you do?

>> I'm a graphic designer. So uh and I actually make almost as much as he does, but I've been in this job for a long time. >> Okay. Right. And what uh so you're thinking about moving to a more metropolitan area to further his career?

>> Yes. Yes. >> And when would you be doing that?

>> Um the baby's due in December. We're thinking February or March if he can get his bar transferred to another state.

>> That sounds pretty good. Okay.

>> Yeah, it does sound pretty good. Especially because cost of living will be a lot better.

>> Yeah. And the income will go way up, >> right? >> Yeah. What would he be expected to make, Joe? 200 250? I don't know. He since um

you know he he really has only been working the last four years in um >> Yeah, I know. But if you're talking about moving in February, he needs to be on the job hunt.

>> Yes. And he is he's got to transfer his bar. >> I know. But I mean, so he ought to have a clue what he's going to be making.

>> Well, that's true. I um I think he just wants to get through the first step first of getting that transferred and then start >> I don't want to do all of this and make 105. So, I need to know.

>> I agree. So, I need to know.

>> So, >> we don't need to worry about transferring the bar if I'm going to make 105.

>> Well, that's true. I mean, >> so would be half, right?

>> Okay. >> I think you're making assumptions here that we need to ask the question. What can a lawyer make in that city >> doing the type of law that he's been practicing that he can get a job doing?

Can he make 150 or 250? And we need to know that. That's a key part of this story. Okay. But if you're going to come out of there making, you know, 150 to 250 somewhere in there and you make this move, that all sounds wise. It sounds like your job is portable, so you can take it with you to the city, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes. >> So, very cool. I like all that.

>> Okay. >> So, then then we got a baby and we got a big old pile of student loans and we've been we've hit a hiccup by a an anemic

career, his, and we had a hiccup by

paying lawyer fees, oddly enough, to beat back the biod. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. So, that's both of those things are behind us starting in February.

Ready, set, go. Am I missing something?

>> I sure hope so. We We might have more attorney fees. This is not It's an ongoing battle. Um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We We don't have even basic things like um you know, furniture to eat on, sit on. Um >> Yeah, but that should stop. You make $250,000, you ought to go buy some furniture.

>> Okay. when you make the move. I mean, you don't need to map Don't buy until you move, but when you move in February, you you >> have a budget. Yeah. Look through >> you ought to be able to handle these attorney's fees and eat and put some basic furniture in. Now, you don't need to spend $200,000 with a decorator doing this house up or something, but but yeah, go rent you a place and buy a dad gum couch >> and um then all you know, cuz then you

you can start to take some of these things that are on your plate off your plate. And if we're if we're down to

>> fighting Bodad and Sally May, now we've defined our fight and we've narrowed our scope.

>> Okay, that that makes great sense. And so you would pause the uh student loans until maybe we're out there.

>> Yeah, for sure. You got a baby on the way and you don't have >> Yeah, payment on payments, >> but don't put extra on it.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't worry about I wouldn't worry about working your total money makeover baby steps right now. to push pause, but I would be on a tight budget and pile cash up to make this move. We make the move, buy a couch, settle in, have the baby, life is good, everybody's home and safe. All the medical bills from the delivery, if there are any out of pocket, are covered. All this is done. Boom. Now we're set, ready, set, go. And we have two goals. Beat Bodad

and Sally May.

>> Okay, that that makes great sense. And um I I think the other part of my question, if you have time, um my my

husband feels so guilty about his student loans. I of course feel guilty about the whole biod situation. I know that we can rally and and fight this together. >> Did you know the student loans were there when you got married?

>> Yes, I did. Yeah. Well, then why would you feel guilty?

>> You signed up for the trip, >> right? I know I tell him this, but I think he I think he also brings that up whenever I bring up budgeting or money and it always ends in a fight. And I don't know that that's his default per se, but it you know he kind of clams up.

>> What's the fight about?

>> Just that I want to have a budget and I'm probably too aggressive and frugal and he's more we haven't spent any money in the last three years, but we're just

um I think it's usually that he just

doesn't want to talk about it. It's not something he likes to talk about.

>> Yeah. Well, that needs to change. That's part of him growing up here. Part part of his sobriety part of his continued sobriety is good to face the demons and knock them out.

>> Yep. >> That's like grown man stuff. Grown girl stuff. >> How would how could So, I don't know how I can't be Dave because I'm me. What

would you suggest I say or how how should I approach it?

Look, we both brought things into this marriage and our vows and we both knew about them and our vows said in sickness and in health uh for better or for worse. >> And we've had the we pretty much got some of the worst covered. So now we get to lean in on the better, >> right?

>> You know, we got some of the we got some of the worst in the rearview mirror pretty early. So now we can lean in on the better. And the better is let's tear these student loans up and let's beat the crap out of metaphorically uh biodat. >> Yeah. And it's not who he is, right?

From an identity standpoint, I think it's so much >> like our net worth becomes our self-worth and it's like his self-worth.

He feels so crappy with his decisions, >> but there the two are separate, right?

You make stupid decisions with money. It's not who you are. It's just what you've done. >> I filed bankruptcy. >> And he should and and and to tap into that part of him and his sobriety and the plan that he worked, I'm sure, through AA and different things like like getting to that level of identity of who I am that I'm not my addiction.

I'm not my debt. That's not who I am.

But now I need a plan to get out of it to actually see hope on the other side, which is what you're trying to do with the budget and all of it. So, >> I think I think you keep talking about it and pushing >> and the encouragement. Yeah. And if um >> and if you need to sit down with a counselor to get some common lingo, there's nothing no shame in that. Jump in, call the people at Better Help or something and get some help.

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>> All right. Today's question comes from Dennis in Florida. During a recent show,

you told parents that their children are not morally or ethically obligated to take care of the parents. How do you reconcile that with 1 Timothy 5'8?

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives and especially for the for their own household has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. as a Christian, shouldn't we teach financial responsibility from a stewardship of with love and compassion in that perspective? >> Okay. A question that is not a question,

but that is actually a statement is called passive aggressive, but I'll answer it anyway. Okay. So, um you're

trying to teach me the Bible. I appreciate that. Um the um so to start

with it says your own household and your relatives. Okay. Your own household is not your parents.

Your household is the children that live under your roof and your spouse. That's your household. Your parents are not your household. Okay? So, who does not provide for their relatives? Now, we would never suggest that you not provide for your relatives food or some basic

care uh as long as there is reasonable

behavior involved. But the same writer

as first Timothy, which is Paul, also

said, "Those that don't work shouldn't eat." And Jesus said, "If you're faithful with the little things, you'll be given more

to manage." And Proverbs says, "The diligent prosper and and and and and so scripture when it comes to this issue, this type of issue is full of

cause and effect. If you sow sparingly,

you will reap sparingly." So if you plant three grains of corn, please don't expect a bumper crop.

Okay? In other words, our actions have consequences. So, in what condition would you need to take care of your parents? It would be if they had not

done the things that the Bible teaches them to do with money and so they have none.

That would be the condition. Okay. So, for instance, there is no moral or ethical obligation for Rachel to take care Rachel and Muslin to take care of Dave and Sharon. nor will there be a mathematical need for her to take care of us. And by the way, there's not a moral athlete or there's not a mathematical need for me to take care of her and Winston either because they've done a great job with their own life and have been responsible with the cause and effect world that the Bible outlines and that we all live in.

So it is not compassion to say that cart

blanch you should always take care of

your parents. That's not compassion at all. Now uh so I disagree that is not a

compassion perspective. Love or compassion either one. Love has mixed in

it truth and the truth is you should save for retirement so that your children don't have to take care of you. The truth is you should live on less than you make.

The truth is you should get up and go to work.

Work. Yeah. These are all truthful

things. Now, if I've got an 80year-old lady that calls in here or a guy calls in here and his 80-year-old mom has zero money because they didn't do a good job with their money and dad has died and she's trying to live on social security and he says, "I want to give her a few thousand a month and I've got $2 million to make sure she's got food." I never tell them not to do that. I've never in the history of the show told him not to do that. That is an act of compassion, an act of love and I would do that myself in that situation.

idea that cart blanch across the board the bib that the Bible teaches we're supposed to take we're supposed to feed our parents in retirement regardless of how contrary and lazy and slothful and

druginduced they've been uh is is not a

biblical teaching Dennis. So um that that's just not what

the Bible is talking about here. Uh so yeah we do and by the way we do teach first thing you do with money is you take care of your household.

We teach that and if you've ever read the book I wrote that was a bestseller called the legacy journey. The first thing we teach is to take care of your own household. >> Not Mastercard not the student like you feed and make sure your household has food shelter utilities. Yes. Exactly.

And and so that all all of that lines up with this particular >> and Dennis and and and honestly too I think some of the I mean we get a great situation like what you just outlined of like you got 2 million bucks, your mom, you know, has nothing, the dad is and yes, you have the ability to take care of her. But the also the truth is 40% of Americans can't even cover a $400 emergency in cash. So the real truth is most people can't even take care of their own household, let alone someone else's.

And then they feel this horrible obligation of, "Oh my gosh, everyone around me for some reason I have to be the hero in everyone's story when you can barely take care of your own household." So getting your own household in order is priority.

you're able then financially not to sink your ship in order to help someone else.

Absolutely. And we talk about that all the time. Generosity is we tell you to freaking give at the top of everything like you know. So like there is >> that level of generosity but you have to be wise about it and in these relational situations. And I think some people feel um yeah like they have to and they can't even take care of their >> A lady called Delon yesterday and her 80-year-old mom the kitchen was uh her

kitchen was messed up. The 80-year-old mom >> and the lady said I need to borrow $10,000 to buy my mom a kitchen cuz the

lady was broke. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And and no, you can't do that. Can't do

that. Well, you're not compassionate.

Yes, I am compassionate. We have to figure out some other way. And I came up with some other ways to fix the lady's kitchen. Okay? But um but this idea that that if you live your life on the basis

of the way this guy is interpreting this scripture, it means that you don't have to plan for the future because your kids will take care of you because the Bible demands it. And that is false.

The Bible does not demand that. That's what I'm saying. When you say cart blanch, I don't have to save for retirement. My kids will take care of me. Have you heard people say that? I've heard people say that. That is not a biblical statement and that's the way this is reading out in this email.

>> Yeah. >> So, no. Sorry, Jennis. Wrong answer.

>> Um, wrong question, whatever it was that you did here. >> It's a great It's a good qu I mean, it's a fair >> It's a good discussion to have because there's always this angst between I want

to care for the people I love.

>> Yes. >> And how far do I go giving a drunk a drink? >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, how Okay.

you know, they're they they demand to stay in an $800,000 house that's paid

for. Uh but they have they're trying to live on social security and they can't buy food.

So is is it Christian love to support

that ridiculous? No. You sell the $800,000 house, you buy a $400,000 condo, and you buy some groceries.

That's what you'd do if your kids weren't there to prop you up. And in that case, I would say you're not morally or ethically obligated to take care of your parents in the middle of their stupidity. No, they're making dumb decisions, and I'm not going to support that. And the Bible does not call for you to do that. God does not call for you to do that. But it does call for us to be kind in the process, to be gentle

>> and to be generous people when you, you know what I mean? When when you have the >> when I can. But real generosity changes

the situation. It doesn't put a mask

over the problem.

>> Yes. Bad behavior. It's not a band-aid.

That's not the point of generosity. >> That is not real generosity. That is fake generosity. That's shaming. And so,

but I and Dennis, the reason I'm kind of leaning in on this, I think this is what you were saying, but I may be giving you too much flack here. I'll give you I I'll back off a little. >> It does say today's question. So, he had to make it in the form of a question.

So, >> no, our our statement says today's question. Yeah. But uh no, he he's making a statement. But the uh but the thing I don't want people to buy off on is this idea that >> you do not have to be responsible because your children will take care of you.

That's not correct. Okay? And that is

not compassion. And that is not love by anyone involved in the conversation.

Real love would say, "No, you have to be responsible." Real love would say, "I choose to be responsible so that I'm not a burden >> on my kiddos." That's real love and real

compassion and real maturity instead of a a copout. And so, yeah, that that's why we say that, Dennis. Hope that helps you.

[Music]

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Tom is with us in New York. Hey Tom, how are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I've got a question. Um, my wife and I, we just bought a house in March and we owe like 440 on the mortgage and we

don't have any other debt besides that, but we have a brokerage account that we have some money in. She wants to use probably half of the majority of it on a bathroom in the basement that's finished. I would rather either put it

towards the mortgage principal or look into refinancing or recasting the mortgage. We don't know which one's the best route to go.

>> What's wrong with the mortgage? Why would you re rates have dropped since then to be get a better deal?

>> We we're at 7% right now.

>> Okay. And so you could get 57. So you can save 1.3 you save 1.3 if you want on a 15year right now.

>> Okay. >> Okay. On 440. Okay. And how much is in the brokerage account?

uh about 85. >> And why did you not put that down on the house in the first place?

>> Um it was kind of like a timing issue.

We sold our old house and we used equity in there as a down payment um to get the

20%. So we avoided the PMI um and we

just threw that in the brokerage account.

>> So it wasn't a timing issue. It was a decision to not put it all down on the house. Instead put it in the brokerage account. >> Yeah, I guess so. >> Yeah. Okay.

Um,

>> her reasoning for the ba the the bathroom in the basement is we have a a a young child year and a half and one on the way and as they get older um you

know the plan is to have them kind of be down there. Um but >> well Tom that'll be in like four to five years.

>> What's your what's your household income?

>> Um about 260.

>> Okay. How much would the bathroom rena cost?

>> I'm going to estimate like 50 grand.

>> Okay. >> It's a nice bathroom.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Uh but that's your you've not really actually gotten a bid, right?

>> We haven't we haven't like got any like any contractors or anything to give us actual quotes yet. Um just from what we've looked at and do >> you have an emergency fund in addition to the brokerage account?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Um,

all right. Well, if you had um th this

would not be a question if you'd have put it all down on the house >> because then if you had done that, you'd have a lesser mortgage. And then the only question would be whether it makes sense from an interest rate perspective to refinance your mortgage. And you'd say, "Oh, we don't have any money. So, if we want to do a bathroom, we have to save up money out of our $260,000 income.

>> Right. So, I'm trying to back into that and go, okay, what does that tell me about where I should go now? >> Yeah. I mean, I throw the I throw the 85 Tom at the house. You guys cash flow the bathroom. And again, you're you guys have you're going to have a newborn. I mean, I just know this from experience. I have a 10, eight, and sixyear-old. So I'm like I mean for the first I mean you don't really leave them alone playing by themselves until like you know 4ish down

in a basement you know what I mean where they can play and they're going to be okay and they can get I mean so you guys are a few you know 2 years or so out of

even needing that bathroom down there because the kids quote unquote need it.

Do you know what I'm saying? I'm like it's not urgent to me. >> So yeah out of 260 you ought to be able to pay for the bathroom in one year.

>> Slow it. I would do it in one year. But yeah, I would I would give yourself a beat. Um, and I kind of do hate too there's a level of like the contentment side, Tom, >> of you guys just bought this house.

You're in a brand new house since April and it's been what, six months, and you guys are already like, okay, what else can we do? What else? I don't know. A part of me is like just be just be for a year. Y'all are okay. You know, there's no there's no urgency in it.

>> Actually, both things could sit for a year. Neither one would because 1.3 savings on your interest rate is good, but it's not huge.

Um so um >> you think rates are going to come down further too? That's another question.

>> Yeah, probably.

>> I think I it seems >> I predict that >> seems to be indicating that all the pressure is that way uh with the Fed direction and everything else. So probably u but you know you you understand that um uh weather forecasters and econom economist economists are the only ones that can be wrong most of the time and still keep their job. So, uh, we don't know is the bottom line, but yeah. So, um,

I, uh, okay, what would I do?

All right. Number one, I think that she

doesn't think she's ever going to get a bathroom if we don't use this method because you all are probably not on a good, detailed, written budget, and she can't see how $260,000 leads to a $50,000 bathroom. I can see that. But the way you all are handling money is not signaling her that she that's gonna happen. >> So, I think you're gonna have to get a detailed written plan that the two of you together say, "All right, we're going to save $4,000 a month and in 11 months we'll

have the money. 12 months we'll have and in the meantime, we're going to get actual bids from contractors and figure out what we're going to do. We're going to pick everything out and as soon as we have the money saved over the next 12 months or so. Um, and we have the budget and we have everything dialed in a detail about what we're going to do, what we're not going to do.

We're in agreement on all of that. By then, we'll have the money saved and together we're going to accomplish that by not eating out as much and maybe not doing that trip and doing a few other things. And then I'm am going to take the 85 and I'm going to refinance the mortgage, reduce the mortgage balance by $85,000 and um get get a lower interest rate, get in touch with Church Hill Mortgage and >> and all that next year. You're saying wait a little bit?

>> No, I'd go and do it now. >> You would do it all now. >> I'd refinance the mortgage now. >> You would you wouldn't wait to see if >> No, I mean, if you want to wait two months or something, that's fine.

But I'm not going to wait a long time because they should have put down the 85 in the first place. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm going to undo that. And if I had done that in the first place, what would be the way I do the bath the way I just described?

would have told you to do if you'd have called and asked us in the first place.

We would have said put the whole amount down and do the bathroom later or buy a different house that you don't need a bathroom down there.

>> Would have told you one of those two things if if we had got if we'd have been involved in the conversation early.

And so all I can do is go back to the last time that we were standing on solid ground and go from there forward. And that's that's the way I'm analyzing this. And that's how Sharon and I would make the decision. And um Sharon would be perfectly fine. Uh and and Sharon

loves to do upgrades like decorating upgrades are like her love language.

Okay. So if that is an actual spiritual love language, but yeah, if there is one, she's got it. And so, uh, but and

she doesn't mind if we tap the brakes on that, um, as long as I'm not over here spending the same amount of money on something else, >> right, >> that she doesn't agree with. And she, no, wait a minute. You chose that over me. No, we're not doing that.

But on the other hand, um, if we if we were in this case and we said, "Okay, we're going to buckle down the budget. We're going to save up the money. We're going to do the bathroom." We've done that bazillion times in the Ramsey household, >> and she would not be complaining about that. But if she didn't see how we were going to get there, >> it's a great point.

>> Then she would have a problem. >> Yeah.

>> Um, and I mean, you guys know this, Tom, I'm sure, but those renovations can swing dollar amounts so far depending on

>> scope creep. >> Yes. Depending on materials you pick, finishes, all of it. So, just be aware.

>> Bathroom becomes a sun room. And if it's the bathroom where two kids are going to be, don't make it nice. I'll just say that much.

Bathroom off of our playroom.

>> Nasty. >> Nasty. >> Nasty. >> We clean it, but it's >> it's hazmat. >> Cuz they'll be learning to Yeah.

>> They'll potty train in that bathroom, Tom. So, just >> hazmat. >> Just uh >> for sure hazmat. Yeah. >> Especially if you got boys. >> Did I say hazmat? >> Is cra it's crazy. You know, this could be a different podcast, but I'm like, I don't get that. >> Should be. >> How did How did that happen, Charles?

>> How did that I don't >> How did that get there? >> How did that happen, y'all? Can we We got We got like 30 seconds. I probably shouldn't tell it. >> No, no. Okay. Okay.

>> Don't tell it. Poor >> Anyways, it's telling >> this stuff This stuff gets >> He peed in a candle on our porch last weekend and I was like, "Charles, what are you doing?" He's like putting out the couch. He said, "I don't know. It kind of looked fun." And I was like, "Gross, >> gross." So, anyways, that's that's potty training for you, boys.

>> I don't get it.

[Music]

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Or if you're watching, of course, on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the show notes. Chris is in Washington DC. Hey, Chris.

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, well, I I'm in a bit bit of a unique

situation. I'll be retiring at the end of the month at the age of 50 from the federal law enforcement retirement system. I am getting a second job, so I'll be working a job and collecting uh my pension from that. >> Wow. >> I have Yeah, I have 1.4 million in my

TSP. >> Wow. >> And yeah, um started uh wise advice when

I first got on the job. Put as much money into it as I possibly could.

though. Um it's grown quite a bit. Uh so, uh based on the uh rules within the

federal retirement system, I can withdraw on that penalty-free upon retirement with so we're thinking myself and my wife about withdrawing $300,000 from it

to purchase a lake property, which we've been interested in doing, you know, for a while now. Uh we would then cash flow the development over it of it over maybe the next 5 years and maybe eventually build a house uh at the end of that five years, but um we probably sell the one we're in to do that or or make another decision uh finish paying off this mortgage before we decided to build a second house. I just was wondering um if

it's a good position. It's just a lot of money, right? And I know I'm going to have to pay tax on it. Um so just wondering what your thoughts on that were.

You have other money other than the million. What's your home worth?

>> Uh, my home is worth about 950,000.

>> And you owe how much on it?

>> 270.

>> You got them, Chris, with the lake property. >> I'm just I'm just Well, I'm just thinking the problem is this. The the downside is that the uh

the the upside is you've done a or the positive is you've done an incredible job saving money and you're in a very very good position. You're a millionaire and you retired at 55 years old. Way to go. I'm proud of you. Absolute rockstar.

Very cool. Now then I start to think about, okay, if I'm going to buy a second property with 30 more than 30% because I got to

pull more than that out to pay the taxes. um unless you could cash flow the taxes. But if I'm gonna pull 30% of my nest egg out to buy a second home for

enjoyment, but what's bothering me is I don't get the enjoyment because there's not a house. It's just dirt and it's going to be developed and the house is not going to appear for another five or six years in what you outlined.

>> True. >> So, I'm not getting anything except some dirt right now. If I got a lakehouse and I got enjoyment today, you found a little lake cabin for 300 grand and you did it, it would feel different to me because you could actually go do it. But this is like um you've done such a good job delaying pleasure to get to a right result. Now you're doing it again.

>> There's no but you're you know we we can only kick pleasure down the road so far.

We need to we need to eventually have it. Um and gosh, that's the only thing that's bothering me about it. Was there something specific about this one property, Chris, and like this a specific lake, a specific area of the

lake? Was there, I don't know, ties to it or you just saw it and thought, "Oh, this would be a good spot." >> No, we've been thinking for a while. So, definitely the specific lake and we've of course seen uh prices go up exponentially and my concern would be they continue to go up over the next 5 years. They will um instead of getting there. Yeah, >> they will the um uh the or they'll go

down dramatically cuz let me I own a lakehouse and um we and the the worst

category of real estate and the best category of real estate for uh price is

resort property. So beach, mountain, lake, uh those are the ones that go through the roof when times are good, faster than single family regular houses do. and they go through the floor as soon as things turn sour.

And so they they follow the luxury jet market. And so um it's um way up or way

down. It's very volatile. Uh and so I mean there's been years that my lakehouse was kind of sad and then there's been years it was one of the biggest things I owned, you know, because it just shot. People were crazy all of a sudden and but and it comes and goes in waves. It's very emotional buying public for that. Um

the overall answer is I probably would do it. Uh the only thing is is there

acreage involved? Like you're going to sell off lots? You said development.

>> I mean it's lakefront. It's in a you

know it's an undeveloped lot on the lake. >> What does develop mean? I mean how big a lot is it? >> Clear it. Two acres. >> Oh, you just got to clear it. So it's not really you just got you got to get it ready to build on is all.

>> Yeah. But you could do that in you don't have to do that over three years. You could do that in 10 minutes.

>> Well, probably a dozer and a chainsaw dock in, you know, I'd probably put put the money towards a dock before I built the house, but >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would do that. Yeah, >> but I'm going to continue to contribute to another um 401k in my postretirement

job as well until I fully retire.

>> Yeah. So, what will your household income be with the new job, the old pension, and your wife?

uh 350,000.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. So, >> you could build it back up pretty quick, right? If you took the 300 out, you could >> And you don't move to the lake until you all just quit, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, >> that's what you meant about selling your house. >> Correct. Yeah. Um

>> Yeah, I think I think you do. I like I'm catching up. It took me a minute, but yeah, we let's clear it, put the dock on it, and but let's move towards building sooner rather than later.

>> We'll like that plan. >> Even if you don't move down there, even if you just go there for two weeks in the summer or 3 weeks in the summer, plus weekends and that kind of stuff.

And um yeah, sooner rather than later.

Um so, but yeah, I I I think the numbers

are going to work out fabulously for you. And you guys have been so responsible in the other areas that it leads me to believe this is all going to work out. Probably you're I think you're being conservative on how fast you're going to be able to do this >> cuz you guys you're just really y'all done an excellent excellent job.

>> Yeah. >> That's um so um federal government

employee, ladies and gentlemen, 55 years

old, retired full >> 50 he said even what >> I think he said 50. >> Oh 50 50 years old. That's right. fully retired with over a million dollar in TSP, the thrift savings plan. Okay.

Starting from nothing and has a $900,000

house that's only got 200,000 owed on it. So, he's got a million half net worth, meaning 700,000 net worth at 50

years old. Okay, that's a classic model

of a baby steps millionaire. That's the classic model. Now, somewhere in there, too, I've got to get this other house paid for. Got to get that mortgage paid off. This other thing is scratching my head in the back of this. So there we go. But yeah, it's good. That's living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

>> But at no point do you get to live and give like no one else without using wisdom. So to his >> credit he's asking for wisdom on how to best do this.

um because within because you can take out what is it within your 401k this is >> not the growth no I know I know but you can without penalty of what you put in, not the growth of it. >> No, only if it's Roth. >> The Roth Roth IRA you can Okay. TSP.

Is there anything that you can take out without without penalty? So, the whole thing will be >> there's no penalty on this. It's only tax. >> It'll only be taxes >> because if he if TSP is thrift savings plans for federal government employees only >> and once you reach retirement age >> if they retire like he's probably got in his 20 years.

>> Yes. >> Or his 30 years or whatever. When you retire, you no longer work there.

>> Okay. >> And you can take it out, but it's unique only to that. It doesn't apply to 401k.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host.

Alexander is with us in Idaho. Hi, Alexander. How are you?

>> Um, better than I deserve.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> I'm just trying to figure out if uh how much of a step back it would be to my life if I were to purchase a 2025 Harley-Davidson Loader Rider S. Uh

30,000. >> Thank you. You actually know what that one is? >> Yeah. What's it What's the What's the tag on that? What's the price on that?

>> Uh you know, MSRP is about 24, but I'm going to put some upgrades on it. Pipe and uh kitty grips and all that good stuff. Probably about $30,000 out the door. >> Yeah. So, what do you make?

>> Um right now I'm making uh about $65,000

a year. >> And then uh my wife makes about 15. Uh

she works about 10 hours a week. I assume you each have a car.

>> Yes. Uh I have a truck and she has a she has a you know a crossover.

>> Yeah. >> What kind of debt do you guys have?

>> Uh currently no debt. We are actually on baby step six.

>> Um and 35 with two little kids. There

there's a there's a couple kickers about about that though. Uh I guess the first one would be that uh right now we're spending more than we make. Um because

uh you know >> how would you pay for the Harley?

>> Oh um just just extra money. So about about

two years ago uh we were gifted about $200,000 from uh Sarah's grandmother when she passed away or my wife passed away.

>> No debt. But they're living above. How are you living above your mean? You're spending more than you make.

>> Wow. Uh we we saved a lot of money uh prior to having children >> and we are only going to >> pulling out of savings every month too.

>> Pulling out of savings every month.

Roughly about $1,000 a month.

>> Why? >> Um and >> why can you not live on $85,000?

>> Um you know tithing and 15% for

retirement and um >> and restaurants and restaurants and travel and vacations and restaurants.

We're not doing a whole lot of that. >> Yeah, you are. You're doing something because that tithing does not cause you to not be able to make your budget.

>> That sounded real holy, but I'm not buying it. >> Yeah, our mortgage is about $1,400 a month. >> That's not That's not killing you.

>> Okay. Well, anyway, um so here's the

thing. I >> But >> love almost anything that has a motor in it. >> Sure. which is kind of why I don't like Teslas because I like I like almost anything that has a motor in it and so that bike is very cool.

>> My Tesla will be his bike and your car in a race. I'll just say that. Go ahead.

>> And uh Oh, yeah. Well, that's not a

anyway. The uh it's a very cool bike. Uh and I So I what I'm trying to say is I completely understand why your adrenaline is up when you think about it. Um, and I can get that way about a myriad of different things with motors in them. >> Um, everything from a skid steer to a skiboat, right? So, um, I I get it. Uh,

but I will also tell you that as a young man with two children and hasn't figured out a way to live on $85,000 a year to invest $30,000 in a motorcycle that's going to be worth 15,000 new $15,000 and

about a eye blink uh is not a good

investment. you're not in a position to afford this.

>> But I I guess um a little a little bit more with our finances. I mean, we owe about 250 on the house. Um house is worth about $450. Uh we have a little over $210,000 combined in a work retirement accounts. And right now we got about $150,000 in a separate mutual fund with about $80,000 in an emergency fund. >> You have too much in an emergency fund and you should pay off your mortgage.

You're sitting on 200,000 worth of inheritance, $150,000 in a mutual fund, $80,000. That's enough to pay off your mortgage. Why do you still have a mortgage?

>> Um, I think that's kind of one one thing my wife and I, I guess, disagree on. I'm kind of on the on the plane of uh mortgaging, you know, paying off the mortgage, but then when when we first received the money and she was kind of along the lines of uh you know, just to be safe um to put it put it in mutual.

>> There's nothing safer than a paid off mortgage.

>> Sure. >> It's much safer than a stock market investment.

>> I know, but if I guess I guess devil's advocate here, cuz uh >> Okay. I I don't I don't think we're going to be able to help you, honey. Um, no. I would not buy the motorcycle.

You're too broke to do it and you can't learn. You haven't learned to live on less than you make. No, I would not do it. Holly is with us. Holly's in North Carolina. Hey, Holly. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

I'm calling because I have a situation with my eldest daughter um where she

made an agreement with my husband and myself along with her two sisters to pay her student loans after graduation that we took out for them. Uh they are parent

loans. Um but the agreement was uh that

they would pay them when they graduated just as we had paid for our education.

Um, my husband and I are both nurses and we put ourselves through school. Um, and

they disagreed with how the money would be spent for college. We wanted them to stay home and commute possibly to save money, but they really wanted to go away and we said, "The debt is on you." We did help them through college with other expenses um along the way. It wasn't like we just abandoned them and we continue to provide for um my younger daughters um here and there. My oldest daughter now is refusing to um pay her loans uh

and do good on her agreement with us. It

was a verbal agreement. Her sisters are

paying their loans. They know that it's their responsibility, but my oldest is refusing to pay her loans. And >> what is she saying? >> Um she's saying that it it she doesn't

care that it's our problem and she has cut off communication with us. Um, so we

have been told that we have no recourse.

>> You do not have any recourse.

>> Right. Um, my >> You borrowed the money. She didn't borrow the money. >> Right. Right. I know. And I've accepted that. >> My It's upsetting though because it's almost um a moral issue.

>> Yeah, it is. You shouldn't have done this to your daughter.

>> Um, >> you put her in debt to you.

>> I Yeah. No. >> And you called it a blessing and acted like you did something righteous.

>> No, not really. >> No. I mean, this is a it was a really, really, really bad idea.

>> It was a bad idea >> and it's cost you guys a relationship.

>> The relationship part. So, that's heartbreaking. >> But what you're discovering is is that these thing that math is not independent of relationships. That the borrower is slave to the lender. And she didn't like being your slave anymore.

>> Well, she wanted to go to college and it was the only way to pay for it. No, no, no, it wasn't. No, it she wanted to go to a certain college and it was the only way to pay for it. And you endorsed her doing something you didn't believe in by borrowing the money in your name.

>> I think you misunderstand me. Um, >> you said she could go to a community college and pay for it, and she chose to go to a fancy college and borrow the money in your name.

>> It wasn't really a fancy college. Um, it actually was a seven-year medical school program that is the cheapest probably in the country to get into and she got into it and it she was very fortunate to do that. >> Um, >> if I were in your shoes, I would call her up and say, "Honey, I made a mistake. I shouldn't have done this." I call up your other two daughters and say, "Honey, I made a mistake.

I shouldn't have done this." We're going to pay all these loans. They're in our name. We hope you children have a great life, and we'll never make the mistake of borrowing money for someone else ever again.

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So, we have a uh very popular and

award-winning documentary that is now free to watch on YouTube that we did a couple of years ago called Borrowed Future. We spent a lot of time delving

into the student loan epic failure that

is in America today. now$1.8 trillion

dollars worth of student loan debt.

Where does that come from? Whose fault is that? Well, it's Congress's fault for starting the program. It's Congress's fault for not stopping the program once it was considered an abject failure, and they still have not stopped it. Um, number one. Number two,

we tried to get to the mathematical source of why people keep going into student loans, why it was normalized to take out a student loan. You can blame that on higher education because they've run the cost up through the roof. The the inflation rate of higher education is about 3x the normal inflation rate,

but they're building lazy rivers for college freshmen to really are. A couple of compasses h have this now. They can ride an inner tube through the lazy river under the dorm. I mean, it's unfreaking believable what they're spending money on. And then they're charging it back to your children in the

form of ridiculous tuition and

ridiculous housing costs. So, it's higher education's fault. It's Congress's fault. Um, it's the 18-year-old's fault because no one ever told this 18-year-old no ever in their whole freaking life for anything. And so, they expect to go do anything they want to do wherever they want to do it. So, there's, you know, it's their fault.

And then Rachel Cruz comes in and goes, you know, at the core of it though is a parenting problem.

It's not a student loan problem. the parenting problem. And the reason you said that >> well was well because in my head I'm like, you know, they're 18, so yes, you are a legal adult and you're signing up for something. It's your signature on it. But also, you're 18 and the adults

in your life should be the ones stepping in and guiding and giving you wisdom that's actually going to help you and not hurt you. And so, yeah, I mean, for parents to just sit back is negligence to me. I'm like, you know, step into your kids' lives and talk to them about the repercussions of this because we get calls all day of six figure student loan debt. Um, and it's not working in people's favor.

And the and the truth is too, there's still other options. You know, you can go to community college. In a lot of states now, there's free community college, you know, a lot of places. And so, you can go go get your associates degree and then transfer to a university if you want to get the bachelors, you know, for the last two years, but save.

And instead, it's kind of this like, well, it's so expensive. no one can afford it. So just go wherever you want to go. And that's that's the message out there. So >> I remember the first time I got that call and I just I realized that as that

your mother and I are dinosaur parents.

We're from a whole different world than some people. A guy called me from Michigan. He said, "My son told me he is

going to this college that we can't afford." And I thought to myself, you know, that's different because when when it comes to my money, the 18-year-old doesn't tell me anything. I tell them

things, but they don't tell me stuff.

That that was my first reaction is the parents are wusses. They're enabling wusses instead of actually having a backbone and going how about no is a complete sentence, you know? No. And like integrity, I meant it. You know, no. and and then we can explain why maybe if I have to but so but like you

know um >> probably good parenting. Yes. >> So I mean here like like here's an example. Okay. One of our children which won't be named almost left the family because that child decided they were going to apply for colleges other than the University of Tennessee. Uh and so they got accepted into a SEC school.

Mississippi >> no Auburn. >> Was it a Auburn? Okay. Auburn. Almost as bad. And so, uh, another SEC school, but

it's slightly across the state lines, like 50 miles. And at that time, it was

triple the tuition. >> It was double >> for apparently about the same degree.

So, you're going to pay double >> because you want to go across the state line 50 miles for basically the same degree and basically about the same level of football. I mean, it's really it's you're gonna pay double for apparently nothing. And so the discussion was no.

>> Well, >> or you got to figure out a way to pay for it. And then that person couldn't figure out a way to pay for it. And so she decided to graduate from the University of Tennessee where her parents were willing to pay for instate tuition. Go Voss. >> Go Vals. Okay. So, >> and now I'm an alum. It's great.

>> And now you're now you're famous. >> No, I I was going to go to UT. It was a little bit of a >> Yeah, but it's a little bit of a flex there. A little bit of flex by the middle child, but Yeah. But the uh so I mean we have these discussions in our house right so but here's the thing

the the if if your child comes in and says I want to go to a school that we cannot afford and you say I don't think you should you don't go take out a parent plus loan

and pay for with your signature a

decision that you think is unwise and unhealthy for them and then be shocked

eight years later that everybody in the whole story is pissed at you.

You caused this because you endorsed this stupidity and that's the problem you get into. So, um

there's zero chance that any of you should ever take a parent plus loan. And there's zero chance that you should give a child who's going to take out student loan debt a dime of your money of any

kind and zero support. If you leave home

and go to a college on a student loan, you you should tell your kid, you are 100% food and everything on your own because you are stepping outside of my wisdom. I

am telling you the best thing you can do is go to a school that we together can pull our money and pay cash for. And you need to study and get a degree that actually has use, not left-handed puppetry.

And so you're going to study something and you're actually going to go to class and pass the class and together you're going to take a job and you're going to get we're going to go to instate tuition. We're going to go to a school we have the money to pay for and that we

are in agreement on what is good for you. It does not affect me personally where my kid goes to school.

It does I mean what degree they get. It doesn't affect me personally. And so any guidance I force upon them or persuade

upon them is an act of love.

So this idea that you're going to borrow money in your name on a parent plus loan

to cause your kid to go to a school that you don't think they ought to be going to. There's so many dumb things in that

sentence. >> Yeah. And not to keep extending the point, but the last caller, which I was a little shocked that I mean you were you were you were you laid down the law with her. Do you is there any moral though obligation of the daughter at all that they shook hands and had a deal?

>> Absolutely. She promised you she called us. We told her to pay it.

>> Cuz she said she'd pay it. She should keep her word. >> Yeah. >> And you know, you can't claim victim.

You were there at the party. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. And so if you promised your parents you would pay the parent plus loan, you should do it. But as a parent, yeah, you set up a 100% guarantee that

there was going to be a relationship problem because they are strained because you got involved and caused them to make a bad decision. >> Yeah. >> By allowing it with a you borrowing the money to do that and then expecting them to pay for the mistake that you knew they were making and you financed their

mistake. Of of course they're going to be resentful of that later. There's a 100% chance they're going to be resentful of that later. >> Well, and what sucks is you're 18 and again your frontal cortex like isn't even formed. You know what I mean? I'm like you're a kid. You're like you're 18. You're you're a child, you know? And

that's what's hard. Yeah. is they're making these massive financial decisions as a teenager and you're like, "Oh my gosh, >> you can't buy a gun and you can't buy a beer, but you can borrow 150 grand,

>> borrow a mortgage of >> I mean, it's just it's so freaking stupid. >> It's just stupid.

It's all it is. It's the only thing you can call it. And so to participate in that system as parents is not an act of love.

Instead, you go, "Hey, you're going to a school we can all pay cash for and study something we can all agree on is good for you.

And if we can't agree on all that, you're going to make 100% of the decisions on your own." You can't keep an 18-year-old from leaving home and going $150,000 in student loan debt. But you can say, "I'm not giving you any emotional or financial support for your stupidity cuz I love you and I'm not going to endorse you bringing harm to yourself." You can have the backbone as a parent to say that instead of going, "Well, they're making unwise choices and I think I'll finance it." That of course they're going to be resentful later. Of course.

don't be shocked that they are [Music]

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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtfree stage, Brad and Amanda are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

Hi Dave. Hey Rachel.

>> How are you guys? >> Good to have you. Where do you guys live? >> Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. >> Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville and all the way here to do a debtfree scream. How much have you paid off?

>> $130,000.

>> I love it. And how long did that take you? >> 20 months. >> Good for you guys. And your range of income during that two years?

>> 170,000 down to 120.

>> Okay, cool. What do you all do for a living? >> I work in construction >> and I'm a nurse. Okay, cool. So, why the 50 drop? That's interesting.

>> We had a baby. >> Oh, >> so I'm mainly a stay at home mom now.

Congratulations. >> Okay. So, you've kind of gone to part-time or no time. >> PRN. Yes. >> I love it. Good for you. >> How's the baby? >> He's almost 10 months. >> 10 months. Okay. Right in the middle of this journey. 10 months. >> Yep. The majority of it. Yep.

>> What kind of debt was the 130,000?

>> Most of it was student loans. We also had a heliloc personal loan and a little bit of everything else sprinkled in there. We were very normal. >> Ah. How long y'all been married?

>> Almost. >> Almost five years. >> Okay. So, just long enough to get in a big mess.

>> Okay. So, what happened 20 months ago?

What was the wakeup call? Uh the inspiration, the uh what was it that's jogged you into this?

>> This started out like every success story. I was doom scrolling on Instagram and I saw a about a 10-second clip of your show and it was very dramafilled and I had to know the ending. So the next morning I looked up the episode and what started out as just curiosity ended up eight hours of your show.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Yes. Eight hours straight. >> Binged. >> Yes. And I had never heard anybody talk about money the way that you guys do.

And I was amazed. And whenever he came home from work I was like, "Have you ever heard of Dave Ramsey?" >> And he said, >> "Uh, yeah, I had heard of you before this um but didn't really understand

your principles or didn't really implement any of them." All right. I'm I'm unbelievably curious. What was the show? What was the drama that hooked you? >> It was a woman who had called in and she was in a very bad situation with her partner. There were kids involved. There was It sounded like financial abuse and potentially some other abuse. And you were walking through it with her until you realized you're in danger now.

>> And then I remember it was me and Rachel. >> Yep. And then it like cut off and I was like, I have to know what happened. Give me the give me the rest of the story.

>> Yes. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. And then you went watched Yeah. eight episodes.

Yeah. And then poor Brad comes in the door and you're like, >> and I bombarded him. >> Yeah, I bet you did. >> Well, your eyes are red. You've been watching eight hours of YouTube.

>> She's like, listen, listen. >> I literally was like, we're going to pay off all the debt. We're going to go do a debtree scream and I'm going to get a debtree shirt.

>> Okay. >> And he's like, I'm not going back to work again.

>> Brad, what did you think when she kind of had this whole new plan of how to do money? Well, that's very much like Amanda to do that. And I was like, "Okay." Um, you know, and I'm uh one

that like I react slowly, so I was like thinking about it. I was like, "Well, we could definitely do that." You know?

>> Yes. Yes. Okay. So, what was the first step you guys did as a couple?

Did you sit down and do a budget? Did you map out your debt? Like, what was the first step? Because there's going to be some people maybe watching this clip, you know, on on social media and see it, but what would you tell them?

Uh, I think it really started with just like uh adding all of the debt together and it's like, "Oh, >> yeah. We didn't realize it." Yes.

>> It's 130,000." >> Mhm. >> Lots of little stuff. >> Yep. Just added up. And >> it was a, you know, light bulb movement.

>> It's It's an old crap moment. Yeah. Oh my Yeah. We really do have to do this now. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And so then what happened?

Uh well, we knew that we wanted to start a family and uh this was like a a large

step in uh just getting secure before

having a child.

>> Um and definitely after getting it paid off, you are a lot more comfortable and

flexible. >> Mhm. And whenever I got pregnant, it was like we got to go full send. So I was working six or seven days a week as a nurse on the floor working two jobs up until 4 days before I had my baby. Whoa.

>> Mhm. I got cleared by my OB. I wasn't doing anything dangerous. >> Yes. But you were Yeah. But workhorse like you're like, "We're going to do this. We're going to do this." >> My co-workers thought I was crazy.

>> Yes. >> Yes. I got a lot of bad feedback, good feedback, medium feedback.

>> But now after having a baby, you realize, "Oh, yeah. All day." Before the baby, like I we have the time. We can do this because life just changes completely, right? When you when you enter in a a new little family member.

>> Um Okay. So for the 20 months, what would you say was the hardest part of that journey for you guys?

>> For me, it was not seeing each other. >> I was going to say time away from each other. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yes. >> All the work. >> We were passing ships in the night cuz I was doing >> hours upon hours upon hours upon hours.

Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And of the 20 months, nine of it you were pregnant. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. That is so hard. Okay. So now from the marriage perspective, because relationally, you know, you don't see each other. I'm like, that is that's a sacrifice for sure. Would you say your marriage is stronger today because of it and because of you guys going through this journey together than it was even you know two years ago?

>> Uh definitely because of like the communication that's involved in it and we were very transparent with finances before it. Um but this definitely just reinforced all of it. >> Yeah. >> Wow.

>> We know we can really lean on each other. So this idea that because we get the call, you hear it if you listen that, you know, I don't want the work life balance and I don't want my spouse to feel abandoned and y'all didn't. You just went, you just went to work all the time. >> And you said, we're going to communicate and communicate and communicate and work all the time and we're going to get out so that we can live like no one else so that later we can live.

And it didn't kill you. As a matter of fact, it made you stronger. >> Absolutely.

convenient. So that's so we feel very comfortable now but we had to put convenience aside. >> Oh that's good. Yes. During that process

that's a good phrase. >> Uh did anyone make fun of you? Do people think y'all were crazy? >> Absolutely. >> I got so many bad so much bad feedback at work. >> So funny because you were working so much. Was that the bad feedback or was it the paying off debt?

>> Working so much while she's pregnant >> that. And also, um, we had an eight passenger Subaru that was paid off at that time and we sold it and we got a 20-year-old van >> and on the back of it, it says Dave Ramsey makes me drive this.

>> Oh, great. Thank you. Now it's my fault.

>> Yes. And so people were like, "What are you doing? Like you're you're crazy. Why are you doing this? You're >> You joined a cult?" >> Yes. And I was like, "Yes, we did.

>> We got Xander. We got Every Dollar. We just went full send. You're all in it.

All in it. >> Yes. >> Oh my gosh, you guys. >> Now that you're free, was it worth it?

>> 100%. >> Definitely. >> I'm proud of y'all. Very proud.

>> Now you get to stay home. >> It's wonderful. >> Yes. And you get to like make these decisions without the stress of feeling like we have bills to pay. >> Oh, and all those people who thought they had a vote are still at work.

>> Oh, look at that.

>> I was just telling him, I said, "It's so weird because we don't really get any mail anymore. Like, bills don't come in the mail. It's just the newspaper." I was like, >> "When I first started this stuff 35 years ago, I met a guy. He said, "I want more mutual fund statements in my mailbox than bills." >> 100%. >> That's a good trade. I like that. Yeah.

Very cool. Good for you guys. That's awesome. You're >> so proud. All right. What do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is >> uh putting adding friction to financial transactions. So, making it less convenient to spend the money. Um and I

really like the home-cooked meals.

>> Yeah. Give me an example of the friction you did that made it hard to spend money.

>> Well, like obviously the credit card makes it too easy to spend money. Um removing Amazon Prime and uh not

shopping on Amazon as much as you can because it's too easy to click that button and uh it's sent to your door.

>> It's amazing how much we stopped spending whenever we got rid of credit cards. I know you guys talk about it, but I don't think people realize how impactful that is. >> It's the truth. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Who knew? because you're you feel it with your money. You're thinking twice about it. >> Yes. >> And I would add to that that you have to believe that it's possible. I didn't believe it was possible until I started watching your show. And I was like, we could do this. >> Yes. Oh, you guys are amazing.

Congratulations. >> You're you're power couple, man. I'm so proud of y'all. You killed it. You're going to you're you're doing so well. You're going to be in such a great place in another couple of years and you've completely changed your family tree for your baby. I'm proud of you. Very very very well done. Brad and Amanda from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. $130,000 paid off in 20 months. Making 170. Now she's

home making 120. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1. We're >> debtree.

[Applause] Wow.

Well done. Well done. Well done. have to let the uh social media team know that

they changed a couple's life with that clip >> that they dropped >> for doom scrolling. Wow.

[Music]

[Music]

Scripture of the day is James 1:12.

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. N Gingrich said, "Perseverance is the hard work you do after you get tired of doing the hard work you already did." That's good. Hey, big news. The Fed just cut rates. We all heard about it last week. And 15-year fixed rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. Currently 15s are sitting at 5.71.

If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy a house or put one up for sale. Lower rates could save you thousands. It could be moving the people loose that uh turning them loose, getting them off the bench so they come buy your house. So, buying an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent.

These are pros that we handpicked because they're high octane, high protein. If you're going to list a house for sale, you're going to buy a house, you need to do it with somebody who actually sells houses, not your aunt Sally, who just got her license. I know

she makes good apple pie, but she's not a good real estate agent. She just got her license. Don't use Aunt Sally. It's

your milliondoll house. That's dumb.

Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/agents or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Trevor's in Florida. Hey Trevor, what's up? >> Hey, how you how you guys doing today?

>> Great, man. How can we help?

>> Uh, please bear with me. I'm nervous.

I'm ashamed, disgusted, embarrassed at all. Um, I'm going to go straight to the question because I I really need guidance on this. Um, should I file for

bankruptcy? Um, I made a dumb mistake

and now I regret it. Um, and I'm I'm

ashamed. So, just a little quick backstory. So, um, I purchased a house

and when I purchased the house, I kind of paid more than what I should have.

Um, then fast forward, I basically ended

up losing my job. Um, in the mix of it,

um, I bought when the interest rates and, um, and the prices were going up

and I already had paid over what the house was supposed to be. Um, so when I

went to sell it, I basically, um, couldn't sell it cuz there was a lot of brand new uh, properties going up and the the sellers were uh, giving a lot of more incentives. So there my house,

beautiful house, um was up for sale, but

nobody was really interested because I wasn't offering anything or no incentives. I couldn't compete with the with the other sellers. Um, and then I

ended up uh my realtor um kind of

convinced me to like do a sub two

contract, meaning I I keep full

financial obligation of the payment while I basically have somebody make the payment for me and once the house is paid, they uh they take basically the

house is is theirs. Um, fast forward a

year, um, well, not even a year. Um, the

person that took over the payment has not been making the payment. So, I just got served, um, on August 22nd,

um, that the house is going up for

foreclosure. So, I'm reached out to the

gentleman. I I've been trying to reach out to the gentleman because I kind of knew that he was on pain. Um, but I was

unable to. So, I drove there last week and kind of spoke to him and he has no intentions of leaving the property. Um, and I'm I'm I'm >> He has no intent of what? Say that again. >> Of leaving the property or kind of signing it back over to me to so I get um the deed. >> So, he's living there. >> So, he he's running a scam. Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. So basically, um, right now I I

have no means to like get another lawyer

cuz I'm going through a a custody battle, not a custody battle, a child support battle cuz mother of my kids move about 3 hours away. Um, so right now, >> what do you make a year, Trevor?

>> Um, so myself, I make 40 and my my wife

looks 40. So combined we make about 80.

>> Okay. Right. Um, you can afford a lawyer

and you need a lawyer.

That is correct. >> Yeah. Um because if you file bankruptcy, it's a lawyer and you have to pay a lawyer. >> So you might as well pay one to evict the scam artist.

>> Yeah. So and and that's what I was thinking of. But again, like my budget right now is super super tight. like I'm

paying about um $800 for the other

lawyer to get this case resolved cuz like I said I mentioned earlier >> you don't have the money to file bankruptcy if you don't have the money to hire a lawyer to throw the guy out.

>> Well, I have I have a PC that I have right now and I can probably get like $1,500 for it. Um >> you you have a what?

>> A PC it's a gaming computer.

>> Yeah. Okay. So sell it and hire a lawyer to evict the guy.

>> You don't think it's going to take too long, though? >> It might. >> It might, but we don't file bankruptcy until we've tried everything else.

>> I'm not going to roll over in Florida.

It's going to take them forever to foreclose. How far behind are you on the house >> because the guy's not paying the bill?

What? >> January. So about $40,000.

>> How many months? That's uh February March, April, May, June, July, August about eight. >> Yeah. Did So when they sent you a notice, they didn't give you a date.

They just said the house is in default and we're going to foreclose if you don't straighten this up. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. I I I already got served. The 20 days for me to respond to the court has passed by.

However, I looked I logged in today to see like the case disposition because um

he received his um the person that's living in the house right now receive he got also served and he basically had 20

days also to respond but now I guess he

was able to hire a lawyer and basically put like oh they didn't they didn't serve all the tenants that are living there correctly. Um so I guess he's

>> this guy's really good at scamming.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, and >> okay, but there's not the foreclosure date has not been set.

>> Uh, not yet. >> Yeah, it should it shouldn't be in Florida after 7 months. It'd be unusual if it was. Okay. >> So, and and it it's a little bit more backtory to it. So, I right now we we

this all happened. We moved to Puerto Rico and then we just came back. So, right now we're living with in-laws and we were trying to get an apartment. But >> what were you doing in Puerto Rico?

>> Um, just basically started a new job. um

kind of didn't work out cuz my nine-year-old's education started like drawing back and we noticed it and we just told my wife and I like made to say you know what let's go. >> All right, Trevor. Okay, here's the thing. You're not bankrupt until you're bankrupt.

You are projecting into the future that this is going to go one certain way and

um we don't know what it's going to do yet. It doesn't sound good. There's no question you've been scammed, but it's not costing you a dime today. You're not having to write checks today uh to unless you want to unless you want to catch this thing up.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, no, but again, um since we

moved back and we're we're living with my in-laws, like I really want to move

out, but I'm unable to. I got six kids, so we're all >> It's not got anything to do with bankruptcy.

>> I understand that. But >> bankruptcy doesn't get you a place to live for six kids.

>> No, I understand that. But it's just the the fact that like it's it's already hitting my credit and like even if I was to find the money.

>> You don't think bankruptcy dings your credit? >> No, it it does. >> Okay. But >> you're getting ready to drop an atom bomb on your credit, dude. It's going to be it's going to be a wasteland for seven years.

for 10 years if you file a chapter 7 and you're not bankrupt because nothing has happened yet to bankrupt you. You're just um have done a series of bad deals

and you keep jumping from one thing to another. You jumped into the house, you jumped out of the house. You jumped into Puerto Rico, you jump back. Jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump.

You need to find something really steady and put your hand to the plow and stay on it. And I do recommend I you you keep arguing with me, but you called and asked me what to do. And I recommend you get a lawyer and you throw this guy in the street, >> okay? >> And then you start negotiating with a mortgage company on a short sale >> with a good real estate a with a good real estate agent that knows what they're doing.

No one should have recommended you do that deal. was malpractice.

Now, it might the law might not call it that. I'm morally calling it malpractice. It was horrible advice to

put you into that deal. Those deals always end up this way. They never end up any other way. Cuz who else moves into a house and pays full price for it plus and pays payments for 30 years and it's not even in their name?

People who are going to scam you, that's who. So, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes, huh? That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 161. Surviving the Money Storm Starts with Tough Choices | Best-Of for March 27, 2025


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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today from Ramsey Network it's the

Ramsey show where we help people build

wealth do work that they love and create

amazing relationships I'm Jade warshaw

next to me is the Magnificent Kenneth

Coleman wow magnificent and Kenneth in

the same sentence it's going to be a day it's going to be a good day we're taking

calls all afternoon long your life your money hit us with all the questions that

you have and we will hit you with an answer a solution a way forward or we'll

just spitball creative ideas with you whatever it takes the phone lines are

open 8825 5225 let's get involved all

right let's go straight to the phone lines we got Joe he's in Anaheim

California what's going on

Joe hey how you guys doing doing great

how are you doing good doing good uh

been watching you guys for a while and I got a quick question I'm just looking for a little bit of affirmation here okay um I have a girlfriend of about a

year and a half and uh we do live

together and she asked me actually last

night um if I could loan her money to

pay off a debt that she has on a credit

card so about

12,000 about $12,000 in debt not a

little bit myself I'm huh that's not a

little bit that's a lot well yeah yeah

oh yeah yeah not yeah not not a little

bit um but yeah she had asked me that

and um I gave her I told her I would

call you guys I I kind of know the

answer but I'll get back to you on that babe let's put it on Jaden Kenneth to

see what sure sure um okay so it's

$112,000 did you say it's for a credit

card yeah yeah for a credit card yeah

and just to clarify this is a loan So

when you say the word loan that makes me sound that makes it sound like somebody's got pay it

back got to pay it back yeah absolutely

absolutely she had got into a yeah she

had got into a little situation I guess with her uh last partner um he end up

using it uh without her uh permission

and um yeah that's how she end up being

in that situation can I ask you this how do you feel how would you feel being in a position where your girlfriend owes you $112,000 that's the thing too cuz like I

I've been looking to you guys for a while and I I remember one thing says is

you know you know dinner tastes a little different you know when you're sing across with somebody that owes you and I know I wouldn't be the one owing anyone

but like just the fact that you know

that that kind of tension would be there I wouldn't necessarily feel too comfortable with that yeah Joe how's that going to feel when she starts missing payments that she owes you

that's got to be weird hey we're going

to Red Lobster tonight how's that uh

payment plan coming along but she still got her nails done and still got her hair done oh yeah yeah Joe yeah can I J

can I Joe listen I appreciate that you

told your girlfriend you were going to call us but what was your gut reaction when she hit you with this idea my gut reaction was I'll be honest

I I was like okay like am I in a position to do so like yes like yes can

I can I help her like that yes but um I

I I just think like like just like um

like character-wise I really feel like you know you know um you know attacking debt is you know a character builder too

and I you know I definitely want us to grow in that regard I want her to take her finances serious to as well Joe Joe

Joe listen to me Joe Jade ner on team

Joe okay why don't you stop spinning and

just tell us how did you feel when she hit you with that did you want to do it yes or no I got you I got you no no there we go

there we go I'm with you Joe and there's nothing wrong with that nothing wrong with that she you know I I do have more

question just cuz I want to know and I I want the people to also get a clear picture of this you know first off we're

not big on loaning money here you know

to a friend to a family member uh

somebody loaning money to you debt in

general is just we're we're anti- debt

here so now if you called and said hey

she's asking me if I can give her this

money that might be a different conversation and you're like I have it to give and if I don't ever receive it

back it's no big deal like that might be a totally different conversation um but

the aspect of loaning it you're right it does it does put a different taste in your mouth and it's going to make the whole relationship the power shifts

right you become the the lender and she

becomes not the lender I got to ask a

question Joe cuz Jade's here and I love

getting the female perspective on this are you worried about her reaction if

you tell her cuz I think you called us

to get us to go well this guy this guy

and this gal said this

are you worried about what her reaction is going to be if you tell her

no um honest a little bit she she can be

yeah no no she can be definitely emotional you know when it comes down to

things like that emotional like crying

or emotional like I'mma hit you with this cast iron

pan maybe a sandal I don't know about

the cast iron but she'd probably do something like that I love it yeah but

um I think that's important

yeah yeah no no it definitely is I know like she's not the type to like flare up if you tell her no but I I just wanted

to um yeah I just want to get like

affirmation on that just to say like you know like hey you know I mean me being

the position I'm in is because I've listen to these you know I've listen to these people and um you know I really

want to you know I'll call like I'll call them and maybe they can give you

some more clarity too on my standpoint

are you going to marry her that's my question oh yeah that's that's definitely that's definitely the plan for sure does she know that

yeah does she know that uh I I wouldn't

say that's I mean well we've talked about it but as far as like a time frame on when we're going to get married that hasn't been all right so here's the deal so since you called us and I know where this is going you need to give her a

legit legitimate explanation as to why

we think what we think and if you agree with us so the reason that we want to

keep this separate is you two are not married now if you go down the courthouse tonight and I'm not trying to get you to do that but all of a sudden

this debt becomes your debt but right now it's her debt and and the relationship needs boundaries and this is because you believe in a healthy

relationship and and so you need to

explain to her that that is your debt not my debt and the minute that I give you money it changes our relationship and I don't want that because I'm looking long term I missed anything on

that I me I I agree exactly with Ken

there's a protection for both of you uh

legal speaking you know when you become

married and so if nothing else this is a

great time to start that conversation of

what you know the Define the relationship now is a great time to start talking about that and I think it will reassure her to say you know if the time comes and you agree that we should

be married as I believe that we should be married then I am happy to take on

your debt it would never be alone it

would be us working together and you

know I look forward to that day but unfortunately we're not there today I have a question for you Jade and and she

she this is for you Joe but it's to Jade

I overthink everything so the giant Aster here is I overanalyze everything

my brain right now is going if he says

that which you and I are on the same page does she put pressure on him to to

to to get married and does this fast forward a marriage proposal I'm a little

nervous about that I hope not uh do you

see what would you say he needs to guard

himself with I hope not if you sense

that if you sense that now all of a sudden she's trying to you know rush you

then I think that could be a bit of a red flag that's good CU that's what I W

even looking out for now let me then ask

you this question how long have you been dating cuz if you've been taking her for a ride for five years then she might

it's been a year it's been a year and a half okay I I mean in my mind now's a

good time to start talking about it if she does say well you know Joe I've been

trying to get married for the past you know six months and you're the one stalling like if she starts saying stuff like that then you have to be open to the things that she's saying as well at the end of the day if you both want to be in a married relationship makes steps towards that and then to Ken's Point

that's when things become one French we

we that's what Dave Ramsey would say

this is the Ramsey Show Rachel do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like hey you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order yes I

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check it out you guys welcome back to

the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw joins me the phone number Isle

8825 5225

8825 5225 let's go to Indianapolis

Indiana where Zachary joins us Zachary

how can we help today hi how are you guys uh we're doing

great what's going on so um I'll cut to the chase Monday I

lost my house in the house fire for at

least four months yeah oh my gosh what

you what do you mean at least for four month what was it totally uh it was it

was contained to one room thankfully but

we had a lot of stuff in that room that

the room is completely gone they have to completely got it and reconstructed I

guess okay nobody was hurt no uh the dog

was inside but oh gosh than they got him

out okay okay so pup is okay and when

you say it's only one room is that

downstairs upstairs what was in the room

uh it was our downstairs master bedroom

um oh no C we were actually supposed to

sell the house four days prior um well

four days after the fire had happened oh

my gosh but that's not happening anymore

right um so thankfully like a lot of my

stuff was packed up and ready to go but

like my wife's entire wardrobe

everything like our our our bed our

newborn son's bed and everything is oh

my gosh where were you guys when this happened

um I was an hour away at work and my wife was at work oh my gosh and you're

newborn son uh he was at uh grandparents oh my

gosh thank goodness W but the rest of the house is okay yes uh my stepdad was

driving by when it started to smoke

really bad so he caught it what happened

what caused the fire do they know um it was one of the outlets by our

bed they're not exactly sure but they think maybe a wire came loose and like touched the insulation or something or Mouse Che on it oh my that is crazy well

I'm so glad everybody's okay well a

couple of things to be grateful for

obviously you guys weren't there your wife was not there your baby son the dog

is okay my goodness and your father-in-law is driving by yeah and I love that and again grateful that it's just the room and four months from now you've got a rebuilt Master now I know all of the other things that come with that are awful but but it all things

being equal this is uh you dodged a

major major crisis yeah yeah yeah

definitely all right so how can we help today so we were planning on selling the

house because my wife bought it before

me and her were ever together and it is a nightmare of a house um Foundation

issues and everything electrical issues

yeah um um so we were really wanting to get

out of it um we were buying a new house

on um closer to my parents and it's a

lot nicer house but did you already make

the offer yeah but we are doing a

contingency by so we're probably gonna

lose that house now that we have to wait

another four months yeah um we have just

started the baby steps we've got about

$85,000 in Consumer Debt okay um we

don't have much savings especially after the fire now um and then what if you you

been doing yeah um we we just started it so we had

the emergency fund but now with the fire

and stuff we the Thousand emergency fund

or yeah yeah thousand okay so um

um here's what I think so where are you

staying right now right now we're at my

parents okay you're at your parents you've blown through most of your thousand do what do you have

left uh right now we've got I want to

say well she actually made an ex extra

car payment so we're waiting for that to

come back but we'll have about 13 in our

account but we have bills and everything

and I do a ton of driving for work so I

have to leave at least five to 600 in there for gas okay so okay is insurance

going to cover the total rebuild or is

there going to be more cash you're going to have to come yeah they're going to cover it but they are kind of dragging

their feet so right okay I think you're

a little new to the baby steps and so I

kind of want to reset and get everything on on so that you and I are at least on the same footing kind of going forward

um I hate that this happened to your house and I hate that you guys had a

plan and this just threw wrenches all up

in that plan however in one way like Ken

said you dodged several bullets here and I'm going to add another bullet to the list that I believe that you that you dodged now looking at your financial

situation fire aside now is not the time

for you guys to buy a house yeah yes I

agree I originally wanted to rent but we

live in a small town and um leaving the

town is not an option for us because of

my wife's uh work and uh that's where

our babysitting situation is located um

and they there is no places to rent that

wouldn't be the same amount as what our mortgage was going to be okay um that

has the space for uh two kids us and a

dog that allows dogs um there was one

place that was available and we applied

and we got denied because of our credit

and then um and then it went off the

market like a week later so so okay so

to address that um unless you were going

to unless by selling this house let's

pretend the fire didn't happen for a minute unless you were going to have this this huge amount of equity that was going to allow you to get into the next house and pay off you know this debt or something like that that would have been the only way it would have worked out and if you had called us prior to that I

would have said you just got to keep looking look for the right rental cuz something will come on the market that's what I would have said to you in that situation but where you're at now is

okay insurance is going to cover the rebuild of the master bedroom you know you guys are in a place that you know hopefully you're not spending a whole lot staying with family but you are going to spend some but you still got you know you're still working so the income is coming in there um we've got

to prioritize this debt and yeah that's

got to be the number one thing because technically Zachary when you go to buy a

house you want all of your debt paid off

then you want to have saved up 3 to 6 months of expenses that's not talking

about a down payment that's just you

having money you know when you move into

this house and then it's like okay I need a down payment so you guys were

quite far from being there uh when you

sold the house what was it going to bring uh we were going to get about uh

15,000 in equity and then my sister was

also going to give a gift uh for a down

payment as well help us with that okay

and when you got that gift from your sister what percentage wise was that going to be towards your next down payment um we were going to be using an

FHA loan but it was going to be roughly

12 to 15 yeah yeah I I think in many

ways this was a blessing in disguise CU I think you guys are about to get in way too deep you always want to make sure

that you're putting at least 5% down on

a house you want to make sure it's no more than 25% of your take-home pay

these are the things you want to make sure of um and going forward now is just

not the time and hopefully what I would

do what I would do for you guys if the

house that you're in is in a nightmare obviously there's electrical things that need to be fixed obviously there's other things those are things that you might have to Shell out some money to fix in the meantime because the solution and

can we see it all the time my car broke

down I'm just going to trade that in and trade up and get a new car with payments because we don't have the $2,000 to fix it so we get a $20,000 car right and the

worst I said this to Dave on Friday the worst thing is and I'm not saying that

this is you but you buy $500,000 house

but the AC breaks and you don't have $55,000 to fix it right right happens

all the time so push push pause on home buying it's

not the time yeah rebuild get your life

back on on on track get the things fixed

in the home that's going to make it a safe place for you to live and that's

right and hey let's look at the positive on this I think Jade's right and I think I'm going to give you just a little bit of a I think hopefully a little mindset

hack here you know you get a new master

bedroom hey you know in the sense of you

know did you lose some stuff yes that stinks she lost her wardrobe that's awful all those things are just awful but baby safe dog safe you're safe you

know what you had a really old master bedroom now you get a new master bedroom

and I I like Jade's pressing Paws right

here and just kind of going you know what life just threw us a curveball but

what let's hit the curve yeah you know

like I know I you know I'm I'm stuck in

this baseball metaphor but stay with me

you know curve balls are meant to strike people out come on but let me tell you something uh really good hitters know

how to hit a curve and if you hang a

curve these people put it out of the

park They smash it and I think right now

I think to the coaching you just got from coach Jade over here I think you guys can take this this curveball that life threw at you and you absolutely hit

a grand slam and come out of this thing

way better off so please listen to what

she said I I think she's absolutely right and I think you guys got a second chance not not fun not fun how you got

it but nonetheless a second chance so

there you go all right don't move she's Jade warshaw I'm Ken Coleman we're here for you this is the Ramsey show what

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Ramsey welcome back to the ramsy show

where we help you win with your money

win in your work and win with your

relationships so hey we're about ready to get back to the phones but I want to let those of you know that are uh listening via radio we're going to continue with you after this segment but for those watching on YouTube and listening via the podcast app that you

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that out so you can get the full show we got some great calls lined up for the rest of today what's Google Play Google

play uh just kidding oh listen to me

struggle I was like well it's a uh all

right Andrew is joining us now in Toronto Ohio Andrew how can we help

today hi thank you very much for taking

my call I uh I actually live in Canada

where everything is quite a long ways away I live in the northern region of Canada and I drive about 7,000 to 8,000

kilometers per month and I was wondering

should I be looking at maybe leasing an

electric vehicle or keeping my current

gas SUV

um okay the is there anything you want to add to

that you seem like you're going to say something else I'm just going to say because the amount I spend in gas each

month is roughly uh $200 less than uh a

electric car release with the um extra

kilometers for 80,000 per year so that's

why I thought I'm usually very against

leasing but I thought I don't know is

this the one time that there's an exception here I'm not not 100% sure

well I think there's two it sounds like there's two issues here one is the

affordability of your gas and if you want to lower your gas bill and the

other issue is if you choose to change

Vehicles can you afford it and you do have the cash to buy the vehicle so let's look at it kind of separately for

that purpose first off uh for your gas

SUV what are you spending now um how

many dollars are you spending a month to

fill it up and do all that about uh

$1,280 so that's the average in the past

three months I I looked at okay and you're saying that with an electric iicle you could lower that by

$200 no so the electric vehicle with um

because leases usually only go to 24,000

kilometers here in Canada so buying the

extra kilometers which is 8 cents a

kilometer uh uh totals me about

1,400 is per month for um for leasing on

a two-year lease and the reason is

because I I I'm assuming there's no residual value left in the electric car

if there is it'd be small

so the the warranty is for 160,000 kilm

and I thought well I'll probably reach that within two years so you know

releasing it over two years then here's the keys and I don't have to deal with the speculation on how consumers are

going to perceive the value of the once

it's done here's the thing I'm never going to advise you to lease a vehicle

and I'm never going to advise you to go into a car note for a vehicle for the

lease I'm not going to suggest that because it truly is the most expensive way that you could possibly operate a

vehicle even though like hey it's electric there's you know rebates that

I'm going to get all that uh when you

when you do the math on how the payment

is how they come to the conclusion of

the payment you're going to realize oh my gosh this is the most and I can go over that in a minute um what I would do

if I were you it kind of feels like you're going from one extreme to another you've got a the electric vehicle on

this end but then you've got a gas SUV on this end what if you had a gas

gasoline car that wasn't guzzling as

much gas what if you did that so I would

kind of advise you to look at your options but at the end of the day what's really going to inform this is how much

money you have do you have money to spend on a new vehicle and that's really

where my mind is so I I own my current

vehicle and uh yes I I I do uh I uh I

actually teach Corporate Finance of all things um but uh yeah I have enough to

you know if I was to go into a dealership comfortably buy a vehicle I was going to buy a lot instead but you know if I have to buy a car with it that's that's no no no issue but honestly my current vehicle is is fine

it has a lot of life left to it okay um

you know it's just more of you know the fact that you know there's a depreciation expense right and there's a

there's a a gas expense and and by the

way when you lease a car the depreciation is built into the price of

the lease like that's correct built in

so you're not getting you're not avoiding that no what what I am saying

is you know if if I I could buy the

electric car in cash except the car salesman said once they're out of warranty they're really only worth you

know maybe you know 15 or 20,000 you

know in in residual value and he gave an

example because he had one that he he recently had to buy and he said it's because consumers don't realize you can

you know maybe replace the the battery

but you know still it's kind of early and um so yeah I mean to your point to

your point we are seeing I mean we're getting more and more people calling in saying I bought an electric vehicle it's

now barely a year later and the value

has gone down substantially so there is

there are issues there I I'm not

necessarily saying that I'm in favor of you having an electric vehicle you're just saying hey this is what I want what

I'm simply saying is if you decide to do

that I would buy it outright and I would

buy it used I would not lease it so that

would be my advice to you um I mean

you're grown so you'll probably go away from here and you'll do what you choose to do but that would be my advice okay

I'm going to stick with my my gas card then the only incentive I thought was the lease payment was cheaper than the gas but you know what the way that you

but I don't understand I don't understand why not why not even maybe try to come to the states and get a used electric car that's what I'm think uh would they be under warranty

though right and how long did do those electric car batteries last in lifetime

C because I don't I don't want an electric car ever I I'm a classic car

guy in fact the older the car the better

for me uh so I'm just being honest I

don't know I'm asking you so you came at

us with a Le ,000 kilometers and then

they they they have like a you have to pay 20,000 for a new battery to be installed yeah and Andrew okay good so

so in my asking that you've given yourself another an answer as to why

it's not a good play for electric cars in general and there's another part of this with the amount that you're driving

uh and I don't know I don't have an electric vehicle I only talk to the only person I know who has one which is George and the few calls that come and

here about them uh is the charging like

there's more to the charging than meets the eye there's the time and then if you

want to do the Quick Charge that costs more you know much a battery cost for my

gas car why would you buy something

here's here's what and I'm not even Andrew I don't even know why anyone would buy an electric car based on what

you just told me because it's like once

the battery goes that's that and you have to know where you can charge it

you're driving long distances can it make that distance like how many trips can you make per charge that's the way

my brain is thinking that feels like a headache to me so yeah as they say on

shark t for that reason I'm out yeah

yeah I love that that means I'm out too

so I was leaning towards keeping the car but I the math was going the one way I'm like a let's Camp be let's call A B Ramy

show but I'm glad you guys agree you

know as a society we really don't know enough about these cars to make a is

your car are you using your car uh for

your own business or do you work for someone else and it that requires you to do all this driving my own business so

you do write that you write off all those expenses or at least every expense that you can I don't I mean on the car

so that's that's at least a positive you

know uh there's some breaks there about running that through your business but I mean that that's just that's what it is man and uh that's the nature of what

you're doing so you got to build into that you know my retained earnings on a business like that would be like car replacement f% 100% I'd have a line item

on that are you doing that

Andrew uh no I I usually include travel

uh in with my Consulting practice that I have I usually include travel and the price that I give for the the engagement

but maybe Charing better idea well

that's great but what I'm saying is is I would Jade you're with me if you're going to do that I would put all that money into a car replacement fund it is

a huge part of your business my friend I

see what you're saying like you should

be putting well let's just run this through

we got about a minute and a half I'm G to give it to the budget Guru walkie so how much how much uh money do you pay

yourself

right me right now yeah 150,000 a year

okay great and uh do you have some margin I'm guessing you have some margin

in the business after you pay

yourself uh yeah I usually keep very

little profit in the business to to minimize corpor taxes but how much money

could you put away real quick how much money could you put away a month in your business for a car replacement after paying yourself and all expenses 1,500 probably yeah do that

that's great I'm doing that today

yeah I would too I mean you've got some margin there start putting a car

replacement Fund in your corporate bank

account and and and boy that's going to be great good hour Jake great call enjoy

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budget welcome back to the ramsy show

thrilled that you're with us I'm Ken Cola Jade warshaw is with me as well

88255 225 taking your money questions

and your work related or income

questions to that end the get clear

assessment a tool that was privileged to

create few years ago it's helped

hundreds of thousands of people and uh

just wrote a new book called find the work you're wired to do came out a little earlier this year and it includes the get clear assessment so what is the assessment doe well it answers four

really big questions who am I what's my

unique wiring and we're talking about uh

in the context of work um why am I wired

that way what do I want to do professionally and how do I get there and that's what these two tools combined

do for you you're going to spend about a third of your life at work and I just believe with everything in my being um

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solutions.com store or you can click the

link in the description of the show if

you're listening via YouTube and podcast

all right to Susan is uh where we're going to go she is in Dallas Texas Susan

how can we help hi um I just went

through a divorce or finalized it recently it took a while um and I've

been a stayhome mom during my entire

marriage for um the past 14 years anyway

um I got what I consider a pretty good

amount of money and I'm just curious I don't really know what to do with it I let my ex husand handle every single bit

of finances I never knew how much money we had or anything um so how much are you

getting um well there's a couple

components to it I got a check for 1.1

million okay um I got a 401k for 715,000

okay and then um $15,000 per month for

the next uh s years okay how old are you

I'm 40 okay so you've got a guaranteed

income for for the next seven years

that's nice okay um okay great so tell

me your question okay so my question is I'm

completely debt free I also don't own a

home because I just got divorced okay um

so you need place to live right I'm

renting right now which is $3,600 a

month which I feel like is really expensive it is um it's also all the

bills paid so my question I guess is um I've

got like $95,000 in a high yield savings

account I started a a

Roth IRA I'm like totally I know nothing

about Finance so I've just been trying to learn just in the last month or so um

anyway my question basically is a can I

live like with can I live off of part of

this money like off of the monthly income or do I need to get a significant

job well the good news is the good news

is is you do have a monthly income for the next seven years so you've got some

time to reinvent yourself and figure out what you want to do with life and if I were you obviously you don't need $155,000 per month figure out what do I

need what's a what's a fair budget for me um maybe it's $7,000 a month and then

you take the rest and you're you invest it every single month right so okay

that's thing one you've been bought time

to figure out a career path for you and I'm going to toss it to Ken in a moment for that but let's talk about the rest

of the income that that you have so

let's say just for in just to keep it

simple let's say you invest half of what you're getting every single month for the next s years so around 7 and half

th000 or 75,000 and then you've got 1.1 million

that's a check right yes yes and I

didn't know what to do with that so I just put it in a money market account because I didn't even know how to deposit that great I I think that's a

good place to start what I want my

homework for you is I want you to start

learning about investing I want you to

start understanding okay I know husband

ex-husband used to do it but it's now time for you to start learning because the time is going to come where you're going to need to invest this and you're going to want to understand it you don't want to just hand a check for for $1.1

million over to anybody and say here you

handle this you're going to want to say okay I get it and a great place to start

is here you know here at Ramsey we do teach that investing is a better place

for you to build long-term wealth than a money market account or a high yield savings account simply because of rate of return right if you invest that money

you'll get a higher uh compound interest

rate of return on that so it'll grow faster and so I would tell you to get

hooked up with a smart Fester Pro um

they're going to have the heart of a teacher and they're going to be able to teach you about this and that's the key

thing tell them I don't want to invest anything yet I just want to learn right

and they're going to ultimately have you invested in a way that's um uh four

different types we're spreading it out it's not going to be high risk it's not going to be just in a set of stocks but I want you to understand that so when the time comes we are investing that check but in the meantime we're getting with a smart Fester Pro to teach us and

then as far as the $715,000 401K yeah

leave it let it grow you're probably probably going to have to do a direct transfer rollover into an IRA and so the

smart festor Pro is going to help you do that and then for you now it's all about

career and what you're going to do with

your life because you're super young I

got a couple quick questions on the money first so the 715,000 how old are

you 1040 oh my gosh it's going to be so

much money so the 715 that that is in

the 401 K and that then that's your that

is going to be a lot of money uh what is

that going to be in 30 years okay did

you tell me you're 40 now yeah she's 40

okay so let's just say you retire I

don't know let's say 65 does that sound

good okay okay let's say you add nothing

to it that right there is going to be $8

million holy cow just not touching it

the reason I went to that Susan is

because on this work thing I th this may

or may not be a thing now how old are the kids um they are 14 and 11 my other thing is

can I buy a house like yes I was going

to say that I was working which money do I use I would take the the 1.1 the 1.1

check is is what you need to do plus you already have 95,000 in another savings

account so I was going to ask you what

is a modest house in a nice area what is

a house price you know your area for you

and the kiddos what does that look like what's the what's the money on that I mean right now now there's like nothing

to buy I've been looking um I mean

there's a a nice home for 500,000 that

okay so it's let's just use that as an example

okay so if I'm you and and then I'm

going to pay cash for the house because

right now you're paying $3,600 a month

in rent yeah so you take just little bit

less than half of the 1.1 and you've got

it paid for a house now that monthly

budget which I'm using is the 15,000

you're getting in the settlement now that 3600 was coming out

of the 15K it's not anymore right and

your utilities and things like are going to be nothing you still got the two kiddos in school so so I would come up

with the every dollar budget and and and

budget off of the 15 and I would do the

the some type of an investment strategy based on what a smart investor Pro tells

you because Jade already proved to you

you don't have to put another Penny and I'm not saying not to but I'm guessing

I'm guessing their investment strategy is going to be you're going to diversify some stuff because right now uh you are

more than fine Susan like you're going

to be very very wealthy and uh based on

just the 401K and what it does over time

so for me if I were you I I would take

my time you just came out of this divorce you've just settled I'm fine

with you renting for a little bit longer you're saying the market right now is not a lot on the market let see what happens after this presid presidential election the point is grieve stay cool

the 3600 while it's a little expensive

it's not even phasing you I would take

my time I'd buy a nice house cash MH and

now you still have over half a million dollars to invest and when you invest it you're probably going to look for something that's non-retirement something that you can get to sooner

that's in some sort of a bridge account so that you can access it you know

before I agree with that and that that

should be the advice years but 7 years my goodness but here's

the deal um you're going to have some margin in that monthly as well that's

$180,000 a year for the next s years

yeah you're good so from a standpoint of work uh hang on the line we'll give you

the the the book find the work you're wired to do in the G clear assessment but that is a relaxed like what would I

do if I didn't have to work which by the

way you don't have to you don't have to

I was just talking purpose yeah so sorry

we're running out of time Susan hang on the line we'll get that to you but thank you for the call you're going to be in good shape this is the ramsy [Music]

show from the Ramsey Network it's the

Ramsey Show I'm Jade warshaw next to me

is one of my favorite guys out there Ken

Coleman hello everybody hosting the show together hey we're talking about your life your money uh we'll throw in

careers Ken is the resident career guide

I will help you with the money uh you might have some relationship issues you can toss those in as well the number is 888 8255 225 call us up we'll get you on

the line let's dig right in we've got

Tyler he's in Charlotte North Carolina

what's going on Tyler hey how are you all we're doing

good how can we help today so I have uh

about two and a half million in debt between mortgages

shortterm um different car loans stuff

like that um I'm aggressively paying off

kind of all the all the debt except for

the mortgages currently okay and I'm

just trying to see and now I should have that done in about a year a year and a half the way I have it set up and I'm just trying to see if I should make bigger

changes and try to attack everything a little bit more aggressively and get it paid off sooner yeah uh or continue the

way I'm going let's roll back and see where this lies because when you first tell me I have two and half million dollars of debt my my my pulse quickens

but then when you mentioned real estate I thought okay that makes this a little

different so tell me about the real estate can you just go by property by

property and I'll ask you about each one

so so the first property you have is it a rental I'm guessing yeah a um first one is a duplex

it's worth about 260,000 I owe about

158,000 on it so 1300 yeah about 1300

income about 2150 okay so let's go to the next

one um single family 270,000 asset value

debt about 159 payment 1,000 income 7 50 1750 okay

and the next one uh worth about 310 debt

200,000 payments 1481 income 2,200 okay

uh is there more yeah uh another single

family that one we're actually activ

trying to sell we have on Airbnb

currently is worth about

540 uh debt 460 payment

3,600 and income about the same I think

after everything said and done we're probably losing about 500 a month on that one okay anything after that number

five yeah we have a we have a duplex

value 360,000 debt

205 um payments about 14460 income

2,800 okay um anything else you want to

keep going on yeah it's quite a few more

oh gosh okay well instead of going

through these here here's what I would do if I were in your situation I don't

like that you're carrying 200 $2.5

million of debt and I I love that you

love real estate and I love that you want to get into real estate here we would teach a way to do that that's in

cash and it would be you paying off your debt first and saving up to buy cash

you're you've gone far beyond that and

it is true that some of these may be

good Investments for you but not at the

tune of you being in two and a half million of debt so what I would do if I

were in your shoes is I'd list them all out and I'd say which ones can I sell

off in order to clear this debt out and

are there a few that in the end that I'll be able to keep that do you know create some income for me uh cuz how

many do you have total uh it's 18 units total but we have

uh mortgages how many mortgages seven

eight n 10

uh nine mortgages cting the personal

property one that's paid off flipping

yeah what I would do is try to get right side up on this and figure out which

ones can I sell that are going to bring

the right amount of profit in order for me to clear out this debt um have you

sat down to kind of figure that out yet

well the problem with with doing I mean I've thought about that in the past but being that pretty much every one of

these are make a pretty good income

after after the debt when I factor in

selling them off to pay off the other ones uh it reduces the income pretty

substantially is this your only income

it's not as much income as you think your margins per house are actually not

impressive and I'm not saying that to be unkind I'm saying that because I agree

with Jade and I think the best play here

is to actually get rid of the duplexes

i' sell the duplexes today those are

just bad investments in my opinion um

but I but the point is I think Jade's right you can still come out of this

thing on top you got enough equity in

these homes just as you were listing through these that if you sell x amount

so I would take I'm making this up let's say you got eight properties I I'd take

the best four I'd start there and go what are the absolute best four properties if you're looking longterm Tyler and I think you probably know some of these are better than others true or false okay so once you pay those off as

Jay told you now it's straight profit

but on some of these you were listing you're like well my mortgage is 1,000 I'm making ,750 that's

$750 gross times 12 that's about 10

grand a little over 10 grand and that's

actually gross that's you after your

expenses and taking care of things all

I'm saying is is that you're going to be better off with Jade's plan cuz now you're actually making a sizable chunk

and you don't owe any debt and you have no risk I'd get out of this now I mean

the truth the truth what what what Ken

is saying is right on and I don't say this to be um condescending in any way

but the truth is revenue minus expenses

equals profit and you're in debt you're

in the red because you owe 2 and A5

million it would be very different if you carrying all these properties and you're like Jade I've got and don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'd be a proponent to this but if you're like hey I'm carrying all this debt but because of the way it's cash flowing I'm in the green two and 2 and a half million but you're in the red right so these are not good Investments for you um what signals

a good and healthy business is profit

and so what you're saying you're cash flowing it's not actually profit it is

it is what really should be happening is

you need to be filtering back then in that in to pay off the debt and so for

that reason yeah what Ken said what I

said before is your way out of this I

want you in the green and I want you doing deals that that end um with a net

profit and that's not what's taking place here um could four of these pay

off the other four just gut check real

quick um well I have so there's two if I

if I take my personal property out of here that reduces it down to about uh

1.75 million the mortgages and then the

value would be somewhere

around uh 2.7 million so we have a

million dollars in man okay so let me paint a different picture for you let's just real numbers okay let's say that

you now have a million dollars a million

dollars and and now you're paying off

your personal home no debt in your life

at all and now you got real cash flow

plus cash why is that not the better play in your mind zero risk yeah and

your place is paid yeah like is that not

a better

Vision if you don't agree just yeah you

just have to what you're acting like this is impossible well the thing is we crumbled we just crumbled your Empire like I I sense that you know you have

you've acquired this over time yeah but

those four are going to spit off how much that's what I'm trying to get you to let's say you were left with four houses you got Cash Plus they're

spitting off you know the the four left

they're going to spit off what how much per month

I would have to see which ones the run those numbers here but if I yeah I mean

just off the top of my head probably looking at like uh if I just say three

that equal up close to that it' probably be somewhere around I don't know 6,000 or so okay but

that's real money now that's 72 Grand in

the clear mhm not paying any debt you'll

have some expenses on that yeah the the

truth is Ken is right if there's anything good about any of these Investments you should be able to sell off some of them pocket some cash get

your residents paid for and keep some of

the properties that's that's that's what

should be happening here um if for some

reason you can't sell these to clear the debt then something really is wrong this is the Ramsey show all right Dave you have some strong opinions possibly yeah yeah I think so

okay because you really prefer Credit

Unions over big Banks well Credit Unions

for one thing are uh nonprofit which

means that the members the customers own

the credit union so any profits that the

credit union makes goes back into

customer pricing so you get better

interest rate on savings cheaper checking and so on that kind of thing and and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit

on the credit union so I find very few

Credit Unions that aren't very customer Centric well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's

Fairwinds they are an incredible Credit

Union that is really out with the heart to help the customer they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really

good job with customer service and um

the deals that they're offering the Ramsey tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and I love it the things that we teach they so line up with and you're

right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an account and I'm not

kidding it took less than five minutes

it was so us or friendly like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says Fair wins on my phone I answered

it and talked to someone there and they said yeah they give calls to every new

customer and so again they just really

care about your experience and I I so so

appreciate that plus anything that you can do at a traditional Branch you can

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friends at Fairwinds and check out the

combin checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe

you guys it's incredible yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter

where you live so go to fairwinds.org

Ramsey all right who needs some help out

there you're just going I'm I'm not where I want to be I'm not where I want to be with my money I'm not where I want to be in my relationships I'm not where I want to be in my professional Journey

if that's you no shame in your game

number one and number two we'd love to

help we being Jade War my colleague

co-host and friend and I'm Ken Coleman

or Ramsey personalities and we're here for you this is a this is a listener of

viewer show we are here for you we take

your questions 8825 5225

8825 5225 let's go to Detroit now

Kendall is there Kendall how can we

help hi nice to talk with you today you

too what's going on um so I just

graduated medical school about a half a year ago hey Co

congrats thank you um so have about

three and a half years left obviously residency salary is about 60,000 I have

about 220 in student debt um but no

other debt in my life um so my plan is

like you know I can't pay off my debt while I'm a resident I don't make enough but when I graduate I was going to live off of like 40,000 pay off my debt in

two years but yeah my question is I don't have like any money saved for retirement and I'll be 33 when I start

makinging six figures so should I

prioritize paying off my debt or should I start saving more for retirement well

Jay's going to help you on that but I'm just real curious what do you think that

starting salary is and what do you think

the range is maybe in the first couple

years uh 270 to 300 most likely Jade you

can do something with that can't you coach listen I'm excited for you um

thank you excited too you should be I'm

I'm I'm excited for you you know you've got this big milestone you know coming

up you've got three and a half years left of med school so that's that's cool

so luckily you came out of this with only 20,000 of student loans can I just

quickly ask you 220 220 220 I caught

that one woo listen I'm glad I asked

because I was like how in the world would you do that all right so you've got 220 of student loans nothing else

right yes nothing else okay and we've

got a couple more years of 60,000 salary

60 to 80 or just 60 yeah like 60 to 70 probably

okay um yeah I I'm with you uh they're

not going to become do until after you

graduate right and then you've got well

are they going to be does it does residency count for that or is it

separate so they're on I'm on an income

based repayment plan and also the save plan so okay like typically they gain

,000 a month of interest but the th

those two plans allow me to

um pay 233 and the government um pays

the rest of the interest so they're not going to grow in residency and I only have to pay 233 a month but when I graduate that'll change okay okay got it

um you know I would try to pay as much as you can with the salary that you have I mean that's all that you can do but what I really want to address is the fact that you said that

you're only 33 years old and you'll be

33 when it's time to retire or when it's

time to start saving for retirement and you don't want to be behind and I

whenever I hear that I kind of just want to let people know like I've been there

and you know when my husband and I were paying off our student loan debt which was about 280,000 you know we didn't finish that

until we were around your age 33 uh

pregnant with my my son and we hadn't started investing at all and I kind of

want you to understand that you're going to be okay so let's just pretend I I

love doing the investment calculator so let's let's just play around here how how old are you can I ask yeah I'm 29

right now oh my goodness you're 29 so let's just say I'm going to plug this in we have a really cool investment calculator and I'm just going to say let's pretend you're 29 years old now let's pretend that you plan to retire at

age 62 let's just say that um and you

have zero in retirement now

right and let's just say because you're

let's say because you're saving for a home you're not investing the whole 15%

that we would advise when the time comes so let's say you're investing 10% so $2,700 a month Fair are you

tracking with me yep okay so we're doing

2700 I'm plugging that in and let's just

be very conservative and say an 8%

annualized rate of return let's

calculate that and see what that'll be so when the time comes you'll have over

$5

million oh okay $5

million yeah that's a lot yeah I think

you're going to be all right I think you're going to be just

fine so that's that's what I want you to

leave here with is all right I've got

time I'm work you know I'm doing the MD

thing I'm paying as much as I can once I

hit this salary I'll be able to knock out whatever remains I'll save up 3 to

six months of expenses in baby step three and by then like I said you might be wanting to save for a down payment too and that's baby step 3B and that

comes before you start investing so

you've got time and you might start to do baby step 3B and baby step 4 which is

investing 15% at the same time whatever

you choose there you're going to be fine $5 million that makes me sleep a lot

better at night K and those numbers and

and by the way Kendall those numbers are going to be way bigger than that she was just going real conservative here that's if you never make any more money like

you're going starting salary what two

years you pay off your debt then you got your emergency fund after that you save for a house let's just say you don't start investing until 36 again not an issue because of the

amount of money that your 15% represents

and the compound interest is insane okay

so you don't have to worry about that

that's the point I don't that's the whole thing that you called about you're

not too late you aren't going to be destitute you're G to be very very

wealthy is it just you Kendall right now

it's just me I'm still I'm still uh

figuring that out yeah but so that's a

great Point Jade that doesn't take into account a double income oh by the way you know what else doesn't take into account all the money you're GNA make on

a house because you're GNA put a really big chunk down and you're going to pay it off you're going to have a pay for

house when you retire as well I I got to tell you Kendall i' be shocked if you

don't do what we tell you to do if you're not in the 10 million range by

the time you're 65 the shock that's incredible I'm not

making that up am I security yeah I I

don't think that's a stretch no I don't think that's a stretch you know so so

you've got this you got it thank you

yeah I really appreciate it follow the plan hey do you have any of our products

you got any books or anything that you kind of lean on I don't my sister went through your

program um and she normally just like talks to me about all of this kind of stuff but I don't have I want to give you something Jade let's give her something to kind of cement this so that she can see the process for sure Total Money Makeover yeah Total Money Makeover

and hey I want you to head to every doll.com Jade and I want you to pick up

every dollar premium and it it'll give

you $15 off and what I love about every

dollar premium is you can kind of the

same way that I plugged in your numbers and gave you that snapshot of what your

investing future could look like we've got a financial road map Planner on there that you can plug in all sorts of numbers to figure out where you want to

be and where you're going to meet certain Milestones so you can plug in

numbers to figure out how long it would take you to save 3 to six months of expenses or how long it would take you to save up for a home those sorts of

things so um we'll make sure you have that and I think she's all said you're a rockar uh Okay Jade we got about a minute here we got new people coming in all the time so I think it's really good to revisit what is a really sensible

question yes and that is I've got all

this debt and if it takes me six years

or five years or four years to pay it off I'm so far behind the eightball in

investing why do we teach that the way we do that we clear debt first before we

invest explain that to newcomers who

might still be going ah really I mean

there's a lot of reasons a lot of good reasons the first reason is your income

is your biggest wealth building tool like that's a Dave Ramsey classic quote right there you need your income available in order to be able to invest it and for most of us we're living

paycheck to paycheck like we don't have any money left at the end of the month

but after we've paid our bills our car note we've got groceries we paid the Kids Daycare most of us don't feel like

we have that breathing room because we

have so many debts and bills so the

first step is to clear that out so you get your money back in your budget and

then you save 3 to 6 months because if you don't save first and you start

investing right away if an emergency

comes you start pulling from your retirement or you start using credit cards and you go back into debt so you pay off the debt you build up the savings and then and only then we start

investing and that's the way it works if

you start doing it out of order you start messing yourself up Ken and you just proved it once you start that investing compound interest becomes your

best pal and so it can work you're not

too late trust the process

it works we're so glad you've joined us

she's Jade warshaw I'm Ken Coleman this

is the Ramsey show I've been doing this show for over

30 years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah in the middle of

all that like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time

to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all

of our family's needs for insurance for

many years including of course term life

insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com welcome back to the Ramsey

show where we talk to you about you your

money your work your relationships is

our goal we want you to win in all three I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw is with me

and the phone number to jump in is 8825

5225 time uh excuse me uh try not to say

too many things at once when you're live on the air sometimes it's tough sometimes every once in a while I get on a roll a little too fast it is time for

today's question of the day brought to you by why refi now we do not recommend

refinancing on everything but for distressed private student loans there is y refi We Trust y refi because they

help you with a low fixed interest rate

you couldn't get anywhere else and it's going to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt learn more at y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y

rey.com Ramsey may not be available in all

states all right today's question comes from Ken in Mississippi my man all right

he says I had a work performance

evaluation after being at my current

company for six months I got nothing but

ad a boys and received no criticism for

the job I'm doing then they offered me a

50 cent raise per hour I just wanted to

know how you guys felt about that after

a performance review of nothing but great feedback am I being selfish or

should I just accept it for what it is and hope for better compensation next

time well Ken you are being selfish but

selfish in this particular

interpretation Jade is not bad no you

got to look out for yourself that thank you thank you for picking that up that

word selfish gets a really negative thing but when it comes to your money

nobody your compensation you are you are your agent

you are your manager that's right this is your livelihood so all of the feels

yeah around this scenario are what I

would call absolutely normal dare I say

healthy that's good in other words he gets a good review he's sitting there

and he's getting all positive a boy and

then they go

I love how you I love how you dramatized

it even in the question it was like I think she was in a few dramas in in

plays when she was in school uh so in

this situation Jade um it's a it's a

it's a shot to the chest 50 cents that yeah I'm going tell

you something if you don't feel

something when you get a 50 raise it's a

little insulting then something's wrong with you yeah and so I would say Ken

uh you are being what I would call

properly selfish in recognizing real

feelings that should feel that way

because I'm objective I have no skin in this and I would feel that way if I put myself in your shoes so now let's get to

the the second part of this um should

you accept it I don't know because

here's what I would be asking and so I'm going to play your agent all right I'm Gonna Be Your agent and then I'm going to give it to my uh assistant agent over

if Jade and I are agenting for you um

I'm going to say I want to find

out is that a

normal raise the average in the United

States and this is not a law if you look

at the numbers annual raises usually fall between 3 and 4% again no one's

beholden to that number 50 cent raise is

really really low that's right so the

question becomes Ken why is it only 50

cents is the compan

struggling good question you got to ask that that's a good question if the company's struggling we all got to tighten the in our personal budgets and so I'd want

to know why only 50 and dig into that

and uh and then you have to decide from

there okay that's the now answer but I

want to look at next CU I don't want to keep feeling this way right because you keep showing up year after year and you feel this way it's not good for you it's

not good for you thoughts yeah that's the thing uh that's a good question can

if you ask and say hey what's going on you know I've done I I I've done some research I know the standard is company

doing all right and let's say he says well you know no we're not d d d then

then it's like okay well am I up for the ride of so sticking out sticking it out until

the last part of his question should I hope for better compensation next time

no brother it's getting lower it's it's

only going lower from here probably I I don't like hope when it comes to compensation yeah do you I love hope and

I think in this case there's probably a lot more fish in the sea that have fatter pockets uh when it's time for

look at you and the mixed metaphors that was strong yeah fatter fatter gills we

got to find some fish with fatter

gills that's good truly though I I'm

with you I don't want hope in that I want to put my hope in me and and and

the Lord and action I'm not going to put

hope in well it was 50 cents this year

well Ken talk about motivation I hope they bump it to a buck 25 next year talk

about the role that that sort of thing

plays in the in the motivation of the worker Okay so so it if you feel de if

you feel as though you've been devalued

mhm it's a slippery slope to where you

devalue yourself that's good that's what

Happ very good so you're saying he's going to start he would start doing things to throw himself yeah why you

start questioning I'm only worth 50 cents

that's good that's that's tough stuff

that is tough uh but that's the real re

U so anyway sorry about that Ken I would be looking for greener pastures uh if it

were me I agree um um but you know again

and by the way anybody in that situation can I just say this very quickly get the

get clear assessment in the book find the work you wir to do it's one purchase price get the book and I'm going to tell

you something lay it over take the

results of the assessment read the book it's 45 minute read for this reason J

it'll help people go where could I go

yes where are my possibilities I'm not

stuck I'm this is not the only thing I

can do gosh that's a that's a really

important theme for me is for people to see I got options you can't see them I

promise you you have got options so that

book is really going to infuse you with the confidence to know 100% it's not

just that that's not my only op yeah I

love that it's about self-awareness and by the way on the other side of self-awareness is confidence you cannot

be confident if you aren't aware that's true so there you go just a quick that's

why that's why I put that resource out it's fabulous little resource so there

you go all right to the phones we go uh

Ed is up in Columbia South Carolina Ed

can we help hey Ken and Jay thanks for

taking my call sure what's up I just

have a question about um paying off a mortgage and

until I wouldn't have made this call I

knew the answer in listening to your show and listening to Dave but I I was

notified that my my job is being

downsized October 1st oh man I'm sorry

about that thank you and and the thing

about it is I still want to pay off the

house but I'm concerned that I should leave the cash yeah in in case we need

give J the numbers real quick walk walk her through the numbers okay uh if would

you want me to walk you through the how much how much is the pay off yeah okay

our payoff is 113,000 the house is worth

400,000 okay and my wife and I in the

last two years have saved 190,000 in our

savings okay what of that is your emergency fund it's not I don't I don't well if I

was going to take the emergency fund out of that it would be 50,000 Okay so it's

140 you got 140 up for grabs yep um and

that leaves you with 50k there um

typically what we would say in a time like this where you're kind of in a crisis mode I would tell you not to do

anything major like jump into sums of

money how quickly do you think you can find new work and is your wife also working those are my two questions wife my wife is working I I actually I I work

two side hustles I listen to Dave a lot

so I started working two side hustles to

to save to pay off the house so will you

be able to if you keep those two side hustles your wife works and you get laid

off is that enough to cover the bills

and cover your life if you pay off the mortgage 100% we're debt we're debt

we're debt free our cars are we don't

owe anything but the mortgage and I do

it I think so too I do it you've still got $50,000 you're still able to make

your bills even without this job and now

you're lowering your expenses by not having a mortgage it's just taxes and insurance yeah I do you uh you getting a

severance of any type no they didn't

they don't do that but you know what you got to Head Start you got you're right that's right

baby listen I I got I'd be looking for a

job as soon as you hang up the phone 100% I already have I already have been

and and I'm fortunate I'm I'm a

professional salesperson but I also have a lot of experience in retail

greatening to you guys I'll be at

Walmart or Target or Costco you know pay

the house off Jade says yeah you guys are awesome you've done an excellent excellent job and this is the fruit of your labor good you guys kept me off the ledge and I appre I wouldn't be in this situation if I didn't listen to your show so good do you like uh you like country music I do

you ever heard of an old guy named Johnny Paycheck I know who he is yeah

download his song when we hang up it's called take this job and shove it you

can take this job and shove it cuz he's

paid his house off I know right i' be

like hey you guys let me go guess what I

did I paid my house off there you go

yeah come on man that's real Financial

Peace that's why we do what we do Ed you're the poster child we're happy for

you this is the Ramsey Show welcome back

to the Ramsay show I'm Ken Coleman I'm

joined in studio with or by rather Jade

warshaw 88255 225 tri8 825

5225 all right let's see we've got our

um Ramsay Network app question and this

is from Gabriel he asks can you really

win money with apps like Bingo winner

and Mr BEAST's new app or is it a scam

also I was wondering if acorns and Robin

Hood what's happening I'm sorry are good

investment options uh I I I I I'm 50

years old I don't know what Bingo winner

is and I barely know who Mr Beast is so

I'm unqualified to even answer this question CU I don't even know what that means I'm I'm going to can you win money

with their apps I don't have the f fiest

idea anybody in there anybody Z Kelly do

you know what they're talking I have no idea the last game I played was Words

with Friends and there was no like

option to win money so I'm guessing it's

one of these apps like a candy crunch

the only app that I play in is a fantasy

football and that has nothing to do with any of this that's just me can can I give a can I give a a hot take yes

please bail me out cuz I don't know how to answer this question all right this is this is controverse and I I I own

that oh boy I am here for this I I'm

going to I'm going to get here for this I feel like if you have time to play

games on your phone you something's wrong like who has

like if you're out working and crushing it and taking care of your you don't have time to play games on your phone I

have zero problem with this this is not

controversial to me and and to put money

into here's my phone right here I have

no game apps on my phone so I I I feel

like I'm in Jade's good good stad right

now and I'm like I just I can't

understand that I can't watch a show

like watch a show with your spouse or or read a book to spend M have a

conversation but to spend money on a

game inside your phone that's called

Bingo winner yeah I'm going to go ahead

and say that I don't know if it's a scam

but you should not be spending your time on it there's no Roi on your time and

I'll bet there's not much ey on the money no and then uh I was wondering if

acorns and Robin Hood are good investment options uh Robin Hood is an investment

platform uh we are very clear at Ramsey

Solutions what our investment strategy

is I'll hand it to my colleague to give

a very quick give us 60-second

investment strategy that would be our answer to any of this yeah I don't like these apps because they really uh they

enforce they're they're really more about trading and the idea of I'm putting a little bit here but I can move it at any time and that's not our

strategy we are long-term investors we

are people who dollar cost average we are people who said it and forget it and

keep it there for a long period of time

and so that's why I don't like these apps because they don't promote that um

so I would invest with my 401k through

my job or I'd be a part of a brokerage

and have my Roth IRA I I I got to confess I just uh put the old the

graphic look at the graphic on that thing I just typed in Bingo winner app

and boy talk about getting me in trouble

yeah anything that looks like that it is

designed to suck the brain right out of your head it's yeah it is that's my ruling on that it looks like it's designed to keep you addicted whatever it is so let me tell you what I know

successful millionaires aren't spending a lot of time on Bingo win there you go

so now I've got a ruling okay now we can move on goodness wow that was something

wasn't it I'm never getting that time

back neither are you Matthew is up in

Austin Texas Matthew how can we

help how you all doing well we're better

now we're glad you're here we're

thrilled about your question what is it

you sound like you always got it together so just need your help thinking

I'm supposed to get married here in a couple weeks

congrats thanks there uh but yikes kind

of um and it has mainly to do with kids

I've got kids and how my new wife

interacts I guess the question being how

much does myami wife have say so into

how I uh raise my kids uh spend money on

my kids and that type of thing because

it's really I'm really kind of struggling with it all right real quick question because I I my colleague is

loaded up ready to go um I I I I want to

know this how long have you two been

dating two years two years and in in the

two years has there been moments of

tension based on her maybe stepping into

some situations that the kids weren't really cool with or you weren't cool

with or there have been some comments

I'm just giving you what I mean when I say moments is have there been several moments of tension that lead to this

concern there's enough I knew the answer

to that yeah my

friend yeah I I would just say this I

this needs to be settled in premarital counseling stat how old are the kids

immediately they're not young and so I

got two in college I have one that's a

teenager well the two in college that's

a non-factor she doesn't get to say anything about that and how old's the

teenager she's 16 but for example like

when the the subject comes up and I

don't like saying this and I know it's probably wrong but I say I'm a I'm a dad

first if you make me choose is that a

wrong thing to say

yes yeah because you're you're treating

it like she's Expendable and technically

now I know this is different and and I I

I am going to step lightly on this but

typically when you get married it's the marriage first that's why I said what I

said and then it's the kids now also

traditionally the the person you're married to is the person you've had children with so it it's easier to make

that statement and I want to I want to

hang out there it is easier to make that statement when that's the case in your

case I don't think it makes it any less true but I think it makes it more difficult to stand on that

um I agree I agree I'm I'm going to

default to you called us because you've

got some real fear and I'm glad you

called us if for no other reason and

then I'm telling you as a guy who went through premarital counseling um and I've been married 26

years long enough to know that had Stacy

and I not been on the same page about the major I don't know that we're here same same

uh you know and so I I'm just saying

that Matthew um you need to invest time

and money into premarital counseling to

sit with a professional therapist and

get this stuff out on the table like you've got to say she has created this

tension here I feel like she stepped over here she needs to be able to say I

didn't like it when you said I'm a dad first like we got to get this all out

before we lock in and then there's the

kids side of this too there is the kids

side of it but they got to solve it between the two of them first you got to know what life is going to look like day

one now we manage those decisions after

that she's nice to my kids that's not it

but we're kind of different when things come up like well I go uh she like well

if they're 22 they're going to be on their own like well yeah but I sure hope

so but what if something happens and

they need to move back in you know that

kind of thing again those those things

come up or do are you are you going to pay for the uh master's degrees too

instead of us going to Hawaii for

vacation those it's so I'm like wait a

minute okay so yeah she's got to realize that there's a whole life here and

there's other people she's marrying

she's marrying the into the family not

just you and that's the case with anybody you marry into the family you marry into the situation whatever it is

so I think that you guys Ken is right um

there's a lot that must be discussed before this happens and Matthew look I

only got two oh wow okay well you know what is

this a big is this a big fancy wedding

when we got a lot of people coming and a lot of money being spent no but I can't I can't move it not

moving so you know what I appreciate

Matthew he's going listen Ken I know where you're going pal I don't want to walk down that path um I would I would I

press pause would because what I don't

want I would never want you to feel like

you don't have a choice or like once the wheels in are in motion you can't you

know put a wood stick in it and grind it to a hole you can you have choices still

um you have a lot less choices once you say I do I agree I I'd get a session in

at least and talk about these Majors I

really would before the the wedding but can I also say that if she says hey are you going to pay for their master's degree or are we going to go to Hawaii the answer is where is my grass skirt that's what

the answer is the kids can pay for their master's degree go with Mama to Hawaii

man Aloha come on I thought you were going in a different direction with that k no kids need to pay for their own masters I'm glad you do I'm glad you this is the Ramsey Show

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## 162. Take Control Of Your Money Before It Takes Control Of You | August 13, 2025


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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the super popular Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. PhD in counseling, so if you need some, he's here. Phone number is8825-55225.

Matt is in Long Island. Hey Matt, what's up? >> Hey, how you doing Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Okay, so I currently work about 70 to 75

hours a week between two jobs. I'm married with two kids >> and I'm on baby step number six.

I wanted to know if it would be wise to

stop working my second job and kind of spend a little bit more time with my family. Yes. Rather than trying to pay my house off early. >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> I I don't we don't recommend 80 hours a week when you're on baby steps four, five, and six. When you're on two and you're getting out of debt and three you're trying to build your emergency fund, yeah, you pour the coals on. You burn the midnight oil. You kick butt.

you take six jobs and sell so much stuff the kids think they're next and all that, right? But then when you move from baby step, when you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund and you move into four, five, and six, which is save for retirement, kids, college, and pay off your house, you move from intense to intentional,

>> okay? >> And so intentional is not 80 hours a week um as a pattern. I I wouldn't do

that um as an ongoing thing. you'll hit the wall because there's those three baby steps take, you know, typically six, seven years.

>> Mhm. >> And so, how much do you haul in your house today? >> About 350,000.

>> Yeah. It's going to be a while. So, yeah, I'd relax a little. I mean, if you cut back to 60 hours, you'd feel like you're on vacation.

>> When I Exactly. When I don't work the second job, I don't know what to do with all the time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're gonna spend it with your kids, not on Netflix >> and and not on Instagram. Yeah.

>> Hey, and dude, expect that to feel a little bit itchy.

>> Yeah. >> Like, nobody tells us as parents, and I love my kids more than life itself, but sometimes it can get boring.

>> And the next deal can feel like a little bit of a rush, right? Or the next email to an employee that's bugging you can feel like a rush. just expect to get a little bit itchy when you cut 20 hours out of your week and you're sitting around a table like drawing pictures of dragons again or whatever um or throwing the same Frisbee. It can feel a little bit boring, but man, that time you don't get back and it becomes magical over time.

>> Yeah, it's worth it. It's worth that investment. You want to make deposits into that account.

Louis. Hi, Mackenzie. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, so I am calling me and my husband just agreed to start on the baby steps about 2 days ago and we have a AC and

furnace that needs replaced that we know is coming up soon that costs about $11,000.

We currently have about 10,000 in our

high yield savings and about 12 in our checking. But we have our

the first loan that we're going to go at with our debt is a student loan. That's about 17 or 18,000 left on it.

>> That's your smallest debt. >> I don't know.

>> Correct. Yeah.

>> How much debt do you have?

>> Um we've got about 99 that's not our

house and then about 185 left on our house. >> Okay. And 17 is a student loan of the 99. What's the rest of the 99?

So those are my husband's student

loans of 56 and then we have a minivan

that has 24 left on it.

>> Okay. So that's the second one. And then so 17 24 56 is your order of attack,

right? >> Correct. >> Are those broken up into a bunch of smaller little loans that you've added together or did you already did you already consolidate them? >> Yeah.

No, that's all of them together.

Okay. Then we wouldn't we don't list we list them we list them by the loan balance not by category.

>> So 17,000 is not your 17,000 is not your

smallest debt then.

>> Okay. So our okay our highest interest

>> n forget about interest. Interest rate doesn't matter. All we're doing is listing the debts smallest to largest

regardless of interest rate. pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one. So, uh, how many student loans make up the 17?

>> Um, I think he has about four or five.

>> Okay. And how many how many student loans make up the 56?

>> That's like seven or eight of them.

>> Okay. So, that's going to be So, the the car is going to end up being last probably. Yeah. Which would be normal.

So, we're going to plow. >> We were going to do his student loans and then the van because those are both about 400 a month. So, that would open 800. >> Oh, you're Okay. If you want to work your system, you can. Okay. I'm telling you how to work ours.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Um I mean, it's up to you. You get to do what you want to do.

But the way you work ours is is you work it smallest to largest regardless of interest rate or payment amount. And that that that that system is actually proven because the completion rate of people who start that system is very high. And the reason is is they get positive feedback as they knock off those smallest debts in the early stages. And cuz right now you're two whole days into this.

And right now it's all still theory. You have no proof yet. But when you pay off that first one, you get a little bit of proof. And you pay off another one, you get a little bit more proof.

And the more proof you build up, the more excited you get and the more sacrificial you get in your lifestyle because you start to see that this is going to work and I'm willing to pay. I'm willing to work extra. I'm willing to sell stuff. I'm willing to move ahead.

I mean, you may end up even selling the van. What do y'all What do you make a year?

>> Um, he makes about

make 82. >> He makes about Your Your phone keeps cutting out. He makes about what? One.

He makes 130 and I make 82.

>> Okay. So, you've got a $200,000 household income. $212,000 household income. Okay. Um >> Yep. And we were we were doing things backwards. So, he was putting into his 401k. We stopped that. We had a college savings for our kids. We stopped that.

So, >> good about >> And that's temp those are temporary because you should be out of debt in a year or so.

>> Yeah. I agree. >> Yeah. So, get in attack mode. Now, the heating and air, back to that. That's why you called. Uh, it it's it's not bad. It's just limping and it's old. And

the heat and air guy keeps telling you every time he comes out to service it that you're going to have to get a new one.

>> We actually just had the electric company come in our house cuz our electric bill is last. So, we had them come in and tell us where we could save money on it and what was wrong. >> Yeah. And of course, they recommend you get a new heat system. Yeah. A lot of people recommend to get a heat and air system that sell heat and air systems.

It's kind of goes with that territory.

So, here's the thing. The one you have is going to make it another year.

>> Okay? >> And if it doesn't, you're going to fix it and it's going to make it another year. >> So, um you need to take the money from that account and out of your checking and out of your savings down to $1,000

and throw that 20 and get this debt snowball rolling fast. And then you guys

crank up crank up the uh the budget and

let's get this thing knocked out. You probably are going to be debtree in about 8 months if you do that. Maybe nine if I'm doing the math right in my head. So, and then you'll then you'll

buy a heat and air system with cash at the time. But the whole thing's not going to completely collapse and you're not going to freeze to death in the interim. You're just not.

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Michael's in Georgia. Hey, Michael.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Thank you, Dave. Thanks so much for having me. I got a question about our will. My wife is 63. I'm 60 or she 62,

I'm 64. We have two children and adult

children and uh we have right now our

will divided 50/50. Um my son has a

history of blowing money. Um and we have stopped helping some years ago. Um also

there's other concerns. He's in a lifestyle and a relationship that we don't agree with. Um and so we the question is really simple. Can is it appropriate to change the will where uh one adult child is a a beneficiary of

you know a decreased amount?

>> Yes, it's it's it's totally appropriate.

The um >> Okay. >> And and the but the goal not is not to be a punishing force.

>> Exactly. >> Um the goal is to I don't want to finance things I don't agree with.

>> Okay. Okay. >> With my death. Okay. And so, um, my

value system is not matching. And so,

uh, I'm not going to, uh, finance, you

know, an extreme situation that I always use just to kind of illustrate the concept. And it's not what you're you've got, but I mean, if your kid's doing heroin and you leave them a bunch of money, you killed them because they're going to overdose because they got they're now a well financed heroin addict. And so, you know, you're not you're not doing them a favor to finance

their bad choices um from the grave. And so, um >> is this some is this something we communicate? >> Yes. God, please. Yes. Okay.

>> Otherwise, you're going to destroy his relationship with his brother, >> the sibling. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a daughter and a son. >> Yeah. You're gonna destroy because you're gonna leave all this to the daughter and then when you pass away, >> he's gonna be pissed at her like she did something and she didn't do anything. So, >> and you know, and and >> you know, John, make some how what's the gentlest cuz we again, you want to make sure you're not using I if it's me, I would

have a tendency to be uh doing this out

as punishment and I have to make sure I get my heart right that I am not doing

that, but instead I'm doing this to not

finance the wrong things. That's been a two to that's been a two to threeyear process of making sure my heart is right. This is something we could have done some years ago. But uh >> yeah I I mean how do you gently have this conversation? >> Well, if you if like you say like if you're worried about him blowing money um I always like there to be a path to redemption. And so um if there is no

path there's no path and then there's not a gentle way other than to treat the person with dignity and respect and be kind and say it and expect the blowback that you're going to anticipate. Um, but don't become somebody you're not in an effort to have a hard conversation, right? Um, the other side of it is if this person has a history of blowing money, a history of addiction, a history of whatever, and you've cut them off financially, being able to say, "I want to love and support you, but I I I'm not willing to do it in this way.

If you get on this plan, if you want to sit down and get some support in these ways, man, I'm I'm all I'm all open. But as of right now, here's my decision. >> Yeah. And and it this is not our relationship I'm cutting off.

It's just the money, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I still love you. And you can't do anything that you can't do anything bad enough to make me not love you.

>> Yeah. Even logistically, you got, you know, a child who's single. You got another one who's got two kids. So you could we present it even logistically that I think you just tell them the truth.

>> We're not aligned on these things, honey. And you know we're not aligned on these things. and you know we love you anyway but we you need to know also that we're not we don't feel right about leaving money to finance things that we are not aligned on and so I just want to let you know that your sister has nothing to do with this but the we are changing the will because of these decisions you have made and so um and

and when if you decide not to do that anymore then we can talk about that but um it's not a punishment it's because we just don't send money to things that we don't think it's it's it's morally or ethically correct to send money to things we don't agree with >> and so you know um you know and so on

you know it's and I I don't know that the conversation needs to be lengthy >> I really wouldn't get into who shot who >> very short very short and and always it's kind of like a like a termination of employment here's the hard thing >> I'm going to be back here in a week or I know this is hard to digest this is challenging whatever if you want to talk some further about it. I'd love to circle back with you on it, but this is I just want you to know this is some choices we've made because at that moment it's fight or flight.

>> Don't try to explain it, >> right? Not in that moment. >> Don't give a whole bunch of details as to why. >> Not in that moment.

>> It's just these couple things here, you know, we're not aligned on >> and you know, based on that, your mom and I have talked about it and we don't think it's morally correct for us to leave money to things that we're not aligned on. It doesn't mean we don't love you. Here here's the the biggest thing out of this. I just was having a conversation with somebody outside of this building recently about this very thing.

Have the conversation. I I talked to a sibling whose parent called and said, "I'm moving all the money to you >> and will not have the conversation." And I said, "Well, circle back and say for destroying my relationship with my sibling." Yeah. It goes wrong every time. >> That's just that's cowardly.

>> Correct. Yeah. So, yeah. That you've got you've got to and the the way we always make fun of it here on the air is like if you're going to piss somebody off with your will, do it while you're alive.

You know, it's that kind of thing because there you are going to get blowback on this too. By the way, don't don't expect this conversation to go well.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to go well.

But the uh what's the saying you use? I can't remember. It's regret is

uh >> Oh, choose guilt over resentment. >> Yeah, choose guilt over resentment.

Yeah, >> you're going to feel guilty about taking the money, whatever. Um otherwise, you're just going to live every moment resenting your kid for future behavior they may or may not do after you're gone. >> And they don't even know they're doing it right yet. So, yeah, that's the whole

thing. Patrick's in Grand Junction, Colorado. Hey, Patrick. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, I am assuming you are doing better than you deserve. So, I will jump right in, buddy. >> Okay. >> Um, my wife and I are 45 years old and

we have six kids from 18 down to 10

and they have all gone through your

homeschool um Dave Ramsey curriculum.

>> Awesome. >> And they Yeah, they are doing great. My 15-year-old son came to us with an Excel

spreadsheet that he printed out and he said, "Mom, when can I start a Roth IRA?" >> Wow.

So, three, my first three kids started the Roth IRA at 15. My fourth kid, he's 14 years old. He wants to start his this year. And they're really doing good.

>> That's amazing. >> I've never told a parent this before.

Get your kid a video game system or something.

>> I will consider it. Okay. Uh Dave, my

wife and I think we might be able to complete baby step number six this year.

good >> at the very worst early next year.

>> Congratulations. >> Totally obvious. Yeah, obviously totally debtree. >> My question and I have 10,000 more questions after this, but I know we don't have a lot of time. So, the main question, how do I protect my home once it is totally paid off? I'm self-employed and I'm just concerned

that once I have this nice juicy asset,

you know, that's if the worst thing happens, maybe you get sued, someone gets hurt on a job and all of a sudden someone wants to come after your home, what's the best way to protect it? Do I put it in a trust? Do you have a suggestion, you know, for us?

>> Um, well, number one, your business where the liability that you're concerned with should be an LLC.

>> Mhm. >> Is it?

No, it is not so proprietor. Okay,

that's the first thing. That's the first thing the business needs to be an LLC because that's your biggest source of then if the if if someone gets hurt or harmed in some way associated with the LLC, the only thing they could sue is the LLC.

>> Got it. Okay. So, the assets in the company. >> Yeah. And the assets in the company. And you do business in the name of the LLC all the time. You never again do business in the name of Patrick. Um, and

so once you've got some assets and you're running a business that enough assets that you worry about having a target like this, >> then you definitely do an LLC there. If you want to go one step further, you can just drop the house into an LLC if you want. Uh, some people put their homes in trusts. I I I did that with one house.

Uh, but these days everything we have is LLC's and I got a bunch of them and I

actually am very poor. I don't own a single thing. There's zero things in Dave's name. So, if you want to sue me, you just have at it. I don't own anything. It's really a It's really a bad target. It's not a target-rich environment. So, but now some of the LLC's that we have, they own some stuff.

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[Music]

[Music]

Paul is in Minnesota. Hey Paul, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um well, my wife and I are um currently

we have about $57,000 in debt minus our

house. Um we have um baby step one

complete. We have the you know the $1,000 saved up. Um we just we're trying

to recover from just years of making bad financial decisions and just kind of don't know what to do um to kind of take that next step. Um it just seems like whenever we try to get ahead, um something comes up, we have to, you know, dip into our savings or eliminate our savings. And you know, we some months are good, other months we're paycheck to paycheck, and we're just trying to find a way we can sustain more income and just kind of get ahead with this debt.

>> Okay. So, what's your household income?

um take-home pay um after taxes um

between our two main jobs is about 60 to 65,000 a year. Um I started my own business last year doing interior detailing and that kind of fluctuates.

That's probably added another 15,000 a

year >> on top of this.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, you're dealing with $80,000 a

year situation and you you said take-home pay. who stopped 401ks temporarily.

>> Uh, yep. We don't we don't have a retirement through our jobs. Okay.

>> Unfortunately. >> Okay. And you do you have any other expenses coming out of your checks other than taxes?

>> Um, no.

>> Okay. Where's health insurance?

>> Um, our health insurance is um we just locally purchased it through the state.

Um, it's about $230 a month.

>> Okay. And you're buying that separate as a budget item. Okay. All right.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, we got 80,000 bucks to deal with and you have $57,000 in debt. What is the uh debt on?

>> Um, so we have about $8,500 in a personal loan. Um, 9,500 in credit

cards. Um, the big ones are going to be our two vehicles, about $20,000 between

the two. And then, um, just about 21,000

in school loans.

>> Okay. All right. And uh what's your house payment?

>> Um so we have insurance and taxes and all that um rolled into it. So it's $1,520 a month.

>> How many kids do you have?

>> We have uh two boys, seven and four.

>> Okay. All right. Well, $80,000 a year

with a $1,500 house payment. You should be able to make progress on this.

>> Okay. >> Substantial progress. So, >> I think the devil's in the details inside your every dollar budget.

>> And um you know, I don't know whether you're still going out to eat. I don't know if you're still going on vacation.

I don't know where the leak is in this.

>> Uh but you know what what I'm looking at

is $7,000, $8,000 a month. $7,000 and

some change a month, 1500

minus food, lights, water. Um, I I think

I can find $1,000 in there to put on these debts.

>> Are the car payments real high interest?

>> Um, I think one is about 9%. Um, the

other one I I Yeah, I can't remember what the other one is. I want to say it might be might be a little >> So, these car payments are 4 or 500 a piece, right? >> Yep. Uh 300 and like 195. So, they're not >> So, that's not that's not it. Okay.

you you seem to acknowledge there's there's some leaks somewhere. Where is this money going?

>> You know, I I I try to ask myself the same thing. Um I I I think the income might be a little off. Like I said, our my interior detailing business fluctuates quite a bit. It seems like on average, I mean, when I'm mapping it out, >> that's only $1,000, $1,200 a month.

>> Sure. >> If it if if it averages out. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Um so some months you make four, some make months you make nothing probably.

Okay. But still, that's not >> um I mean, you should be able to make it and make progress without the interior detailing. >> The interior detailing could all go towards this. Um so, yeah. I Are you

doing a detailed every dollar budget, you and your spouse sitting down and every dollar has a name before the month begins? >> We We don't. It's more so we we use it

to track Yeah. We use it to more so track our bills and make sure we're paying everything that we need to pay for every dollar. >> You've got to get around in front of the money instead of behind it. You can't look in the rearview mirror and say, "What happened?

>> It's too late. The money's gone." >> You have to tell it what to do before it leaves and then it will go to the correct things. >> That's what's that's where your leaks are is just in the chaos of the disorganization. And uh here's what here's how I know that from 30 years of doing this.

And all it is is the money is being it's more efficiently deployed. That's all it is. And so you have this sense of power,

the sense of empowerment. And the other thing they say is, "What have we been doing?

how where has all this money gone before they can't you know it's like it just disappeared and and this I've heard this from people doing the every dollar budget ever since we first built the app long time ago and it wasn't nearly as sophisticated and and didn't tell you what to do and help help you walk through the baby steps and everything else like it does now but back then but

I mean it just even when I was doing budgets with a yellow pad and you would just write down kind of like I just did in my head with your stuff just now you know you got $7,000 you got $15 1,00 and then we take off lights and water and a 195 car payment and a 350 car payment. I still got money. Where's the money going? And that's what you were saying.

And it's like everybody has that same reaction to their own budget when they do it. I feel like I got a raise because

I made my money behave. And that old John Maxwell saying starts to, you know, hit that emotion of a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

A budget is not a form of medieval tor to torture. They don't find you don't find it in the dungeon dungeon with the thumb screws. It's not there. Okay. And the stretch machine or whatever all that stuff, right? But um you know it it's not a form of medieval torture. It's simply you're doing it on purpose.

You're being proactive instead of reactive. And anytime you do that in any area of your life, it increases your dignity and lowers your anxiety. And I'll say this, in any area of your life, when you discover, oh my gosh, we've been eating out to the tune of $1,600 a month or this has never happened in my house, but you're buying so many bullets or guitar things that like we have this much like gummy bears. We have this much extra money.

>> There is a like an an order of things that happen. You feel ashamed. You feel super super excited.

days, the next 30 days happens and it's not fun at all. No, >> it feels like you just got 1,600 bucks.

You didn't. You located it, but now you have to actually not spend it on stuff.

And that's hard. And that's discipline.

>> I remember when we first started Financial Peace University with the videotapes a long time ago. I went visit one of the classes and this old country boy was in there and I said, >> "By the way, by the way, videotapes for you young folks, they used to take YouTube clips and put them on inside of plastic and then just you had it at your house." Okay, go ahead, Dave.

>> I stopped then. The small group, this old country boy was in there and he goes, "Yeah, I done figured out why we ain't got no retirement. We've been eating it." Yeah. 1,200 bucks a month on

restaurants. And that was a long time ago. I never heard anybody spend $1,200 on a restaurant, but uh man, it was wild. Yeah. But yeah, we ain't got no retirement cuz we've been eating it.

>> Uh that and everybody cracked up and they all could relate, you know. That's exactly what it was. Or bullets or whatever it is. You know, it's you know, it could happen.

And firearms, they they could they could they could cause issues. >> But expect to be embarrassed like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I've been spending this." Expect to be like, "Yeah, we're rich." You're not. and expect the next 30 to 60 days to be miserable because then you have to change your behavior. If you've been eating out three times a week, you have to figure out how to eat at home.

watch a news channel that makes you uncomfortable and you think buying bullets is going to solve that discomfort, I don't know anybody that that does that for. You're going to have to just sit in the discomfort. And if you have latent fantasies of being a rock star and you're in your late 40s and you haven't realized it's not going to happen yet, Dave, I'm talking to myself here. Don't buy that thing cuz it's not going to help.

It's not going to help. >> It's not the the guitar is not the problem. >> It's not I I'm the problem.

>> As the great philosopher Taylor Swift once said.

>> Oh, that's we'll just end on that.

[Music]

statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

Did you know that twothirds of Americans die without a will? That's 70% of you.

That's dumb.

That's just straight up dumb. You're going to leave the family behind.

They're not going to know what's going on. You're going to increase your court costs through the roof. And then the government is going to tell you tell your family what's going to happen.

instead of you doing it just because you wouldn't sit down, well, I might die.

You're going to die. We've done research. 100% of you are going to die.

It's just a matter of when and you don't know when. So, get your will done if you're over 18 years old. Get it done.

If you want to ch We want to challenge you to create your will in August and in less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramseyolutions.com/willquiz.

It's free. You can click the link in the show notes. It's Willquiz.

Willsquiz.

ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz.

And if you do find out an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off if you do this in August by using the promo code will month. One word, no spaces. Will month. This is the month you do your will right now. And if

you've moved states, your will is invalid.

you need a new will. Probate law is not

federal law. It is state law. And state laws are different from stateto state.

Particularly if you leave a state like California or Texas or Louisiana. All

three of those have weird laws.

And so Texas is a republic. It thinks it's its own country still. It has weird laws. California, well, enough said. And

uh Louisiana's got a lot of French stuff woven into their law where most of the other law is English-based. And so it's different. And so yeah, you're going to you need a different you need a will when you move. If you get a if you have something change in your life, a divorce, a death, you need to do your will again and update it. And so get

your stuff done, people. It changes everything when you do.

All right. Marcus is up next. Marcus is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Marcus.

How are you?

>> A lot better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? >> The same, sir. How can I help?

>> Um, Dave, I'm in my uh my third year of

bankruptcy.

Um, and uh it's it's been pretty rough.

Um, about two months ago, my uh the

mother of my children, she decided to do some drinking and driving and um she almost killed herself and my young children. Uh my twins are four years old and I recently gained full custody due to the circumstances of that and uh it's

been pretty rough, man. Um I've depleted my emergency fund and my back is pretty

much up against the wall and um I'm

calling because I've been weighing the option of selling my home um and just renting because uh you know 10% interest

rate with the bank royalty is just hard.

I don't know if I can do two more years of it. I'm on a 5-year term and um I

made about 60,000 last year and bankruptcy took 30 of that. So I'm

pretty much uh >> So how much debt is in your chapter 13?

>> Uh it was 70,000

um 74 to be exact. Um I called my

mortgage company and they let me know that 61 um is what's owed on the house.

>> The the house is in the chapter 13.

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I was facing foreclosure and that is why I filed chapter 13.

>> I see. Okay. And so you owe the whole

thing is the house. You don't have any other debt in the chapter 13.

>> I had about uh I believe 25 to 3,000 in

consumer debt. Um >> but it's almost all the house in other words. >> That's correct. Yes. >> So the house is the problem. So the house might be the solution mathematically. I got you. I'm catching on. So, you owe like how much on the house today?

>> Uh, they gave me a payoff of 61.

>> What is it worth? >> They said I owed >> uh the tax or the property tax said

about 100. >> No, that's not what I asked. I asked what it's really worth. What are you going to put it on the market for? Tax tax appraisal is not appraisal.

>> Yes, sir. I understand. Um, >> what do you think the house is actually worth if we put a sign in the yard?

>> You have any idea? >> 200. >> Okay. >> 195 to 200. >> Okay. Yeah. All right. So, you put 140 in your pocket and you're free.

>> So, you would sell? >> I'm just asking. I'm making sure I understand. This is exactly what you're saying. Correct. >> Yes, sir. That That is the option I'm weighing. Yes, sir. >> And you got four-year-old twins full-time. >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Who's taking care of them while you're at work?

>> Uh, I've been lucky enough to get some daycare vouchers, so they're in a daycare. And my mom's helping with pickup and drop offs. >> Okay. What do you do for a living, sir?

I'm a delivery driver um for a company

here in uh Raleigh. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 38 years old. >> Okay. Wow.

Uh okay. What I don't want to do and I'm thinking this reason I'm pausing and flipping around. I want to make sure I get all the answers to these details because what I don't want to do is you you obviously need some relief.

your language and the way you described the situation and everything coming into the early in the call when you first got on the line. Um, I mean, you're you you

need some relief and I don't want to give you relief at in return for doing something dumb. I mean, if it feels good today, but it sucks as a five-year decision, I don't want to do that one. Okay? But I don't see a downside of selling this house right now. Um, as long as you say,

"Okay, the plan is I'm going to sell the house. I'm going to be free. I'm going to relax for a little bit, breathe a

little bit, get out from under the bankruptcy." It was not a blessing. It would probably just sold it to stop the foreclosure rather than gone into bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure would have been the plan. And um then uh and then but but

what I want to on the back side of that is not just my my only strategy doesn't need to be get away from the pain. My strategy needs to get away from the pain so that I can go do A, B, and C to

prosper.

>> Yes, sir. >> So yeah, I I'm with you. Let's get away from the pain. Uh but I want you to decide what are you going to do with 140,000?

So, um I spoke with my bank rosy attorney and um I still have a meeting with them, but they informed me that um

after I guess I I make the sale, the proceeds would go uh to the trustee. So,

um and I'm guessing that means that you know the the bankruptcy and everything will be clear. I'll be discharged of that >> and then they return the proceeds to you. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yes. Yes, sir. Do you know how how that process works? Is that like a 30-day thing or >> depends on your trustee? the bankruptcy trust chapter 13 trust is a local office

and uh if if Raleigh's chapter 13 is is is efficient, you'll get it inside of a month. Most of the chapter 13 trustees, I know several of them are excellent at what they do. They really run a good shop. The guy here in Nashville is he's

the best in the nation. He he actually leads a lot of the associations. He's a friend of mine and he runs an incredible shop. But most of the um most of them do

a good job. But just talk to the off chapter 13 trustee office about it. Say how long can I expect to get this? How long before and so forth because I need to go rent something and I don't have any money. >> Uh I I do have a fear of uh you know

finding something to rent with bankruptcy being on my history. Um do you think that's going to be a a big obstacle or um >> Well, you know, you've got 140,000 in your pocket so you probably can work that out with a deposit.

Okay. >> Or prepayment of rent. I'll prepay for 6 months and I'll give you a deposit if you're nervous about my 13. But I'm out of the 13. I got no bills.

>> Exactly. No debt. I just >> I have zero debt and I'm out of the 13 and the stuff that caused it is all in the rearview mirror and I have $140,000 in my pocket. If you wanted to rent from me and I was the landlord and I we have houses we rent, I would rent to that guy.

>> Yeah. >> But you sound like a guy that needs relief. >> Yeah. And then ask yourself, does 48-year-old Marcus want to be a delivery driver? And if this is the time to go get retoled and get some skills or to begin thinking about what are we going to do next, man, this is your moment.

>> Yeah. If you use $10,000 to go to code school and you decided you were going to be a code a software engineer next, that'd be a good use of some of the money or whatever. If you use some of the money to retool and get yourself to the thing where you go to something other than the get by up.

[Music]

He [Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the popular Dr. John Deloney Show on Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Haley

is with us in York, Pennsylvania. Hi Haley, how are you?

>> Hi, doing well. Thank you for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So my question is basically when is the time to use your emergency fund

>> right? Well, so the the question came from my husband and I had a surprise tax

bill. Um, it was about $3,500.

And the question then came, do we pay from our emergency fund that's fully funded? We don't have any debt or do we

take it from we have a kind of a fund going to make a renovation on our house.

So, he wanted to take it from that fund because he didn't want to touch the emergency fund. But then I said, "Well, isn't that the point of an emergency fund to use it for unexpected expenses?"

So, >> just kind of wanted to get your opinions on. >> This is like Rocky Ford, Dave. >> So, did the uh um unex How do you have

an unexpected tax bill and have you fixed the problem that caused that?

>> Yeah. So, I think what happened is it's because of all of the COVID child tax credits um that then they took away that we didn't realize we've had someone doing our taxes and yeah, we've never had to pay and we haven't done anything differently. So, that was the only thing that we could guess. So, he made sure to look with his

>> Okay. If I get a surprise 3500, I'm not guessing. I'm going to know.

Sure. >> Like I'm going to know or I'm going to fire somebody and get somebody that knows.

>> Okay. So that because here's the problem. It happens again if you don't know what caused it >> and you don't make an adjustment.

>> Agreed. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Okay. So it's not sustainable. We got to we got to fix that. Um >> I can tell you what Dave and Sharon would do. >> We would take it out of the renovation money. >> So would the Delonies. >> Okay.

>> Because >> Okay. because we t we touch the emergency fund last. If we have excess savings somewhere else for something else that uh is not immediate, you're saving up to do a renovation and the tax problem just just delayed your renovation a little bit.

And that that's what it is cuz you know it's otherwise you're going to have to delay the renovation anyway because you're not finished saving for it and you'd have to put the money back in the emergency fund before you restarted doing the emer before you restarted saving into the uh

the renovation fund. And so you'd have to stop everything till you got your emergency fund put back. And that doesn't I don't want to do all that. So, no, it's just let's just sidestep that and go straight into it and take the money out of there.

>> I Dave, I'm kind of just stuck on, oh, we got a surprise bill. Let's just pay it. I mean, I'd go see another tax person. I'd want someone to walk me through exactly what just happened.

Especially if you've never had that happen previously. >> Generally, taxes piss me off. Surprise taxes double piss me off.

>> Yeah. I saw the building, the roof came off one time and they were like, they've got a surprise tax bill. That's just what happened. But but again like it's one of those um I had that this month like our electric bill went way way up

and it was easy just to go well that stinks and like I want to stop the let's figure out what just happened so that doesn't happen again. >> Exactly.

There's something running issue. Yeah.

>> Some kind of a thing going on. Yeah.

That's Yeah. Let's get let's source the problem and and nip it. >> Yeah. >> Nip it in the bud. Pat is in Michigan.

And hey Pat, how are you?

>> Fine. I'm good, thank you.

>> How can we help?

>> Well, um, my husband and I are in our late 70s and we're afraid we're going to outlive

our savings.

>> How much money have you got?

>> Well, we got about 30,000 in savings and about 190 in CDs.

>> Okay. >> Or 401k money market. All right. Do you

know when you're going to die yet?

>> Whenever the Lord decides to take us.

>> Uh I'm turning 65, so I'm still trying

to figure that out myself, kiddo.

>> All right. So, um, how much of the savings are you using to live? In other words, how much overbudget are you?

>> We're about $500 over budget every

month. That's $6,000 a year.

>> Right. Right.

>> You have $190,000.

Dividing 6,000 into that, I don't think you're going to run out of money.

>> Okay. >> If you stay at this budget, >> what what what is your income? Social Security and what else?

>> Um, just a minute. Let me grab my

information here. >> That's okay. No, I mean, where what are your sources of income? Okay. Our earnings are is social security and two

small pensions of $5,023

a month. >> That's your total budget a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you're and you're spending 500 more than that on 190,000. Now, is the

190,000? You said it's in CDs.

>> Some of it's in CDs and about 80,000 in

the money market from our 401k or IRA,

whatever it is.

Okay. All right. And so that's making you say $6,000 a year in interest

between the two, isn't it?

>> Uh, yeah, I think so.

>> Yeah. And that's about what you're overspending.

>> Okay. >> So, if the 200,000 the 190 grows by 3%.

That's approximately, it's not quite $6,000 a year. And if you use that

interest to supplement and you don't touch the 190, >> the goose that's laying those little golden eggs is going to sit there and lay forever and you'll never run out of money. Now, if you keep cranking up and

5 years from now you're spending $8,000 a month more or eight or or $2,000 or $3,000 a month more than you make got coming in, you could run into a problem that way.

>> Okay? But if you stay right where you are mathematically, you're not going to run out of money. Does that make sense?

>> Yes. I also want to ask you, we have a

car payment of $220

a month. >> What's the balance on the car?

>> Five,000.

Should we pay that off or?

>> Yeah. You said you had 30,000 in savings, right? >> Right. >> Yeah. Take 5,000 of that money and pay it off today.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I already feel better.

Okay. You like paying off debt. I know.

>> Yeah. And I like people being able to live on what they make cuz we just reduced your uh 500 to 200 because we

got or 300 because you got rid of a $200 car payment. So now you're only 300 over budget. Tada. Isn't this magical? Hey,

thank you for calling in, kiddo.

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

is in Texas. Hi Kira. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for having me.

>> Sure. Um, I have a question about my

19-year-old son. He decided that college

is not for him. So, he's not going to go back in the fall. We told him that he had to get a job. We wanted him to get one within a month. It's almost been three months, but he's finally working at Walmart part-time, $14 an hour. and he also receives about

$10,000 a year in dividends that he gets

in four payments.

So, um he's very bad with money. Like

his dividend rolls around and there's zero in his bank account, he has to borrow gas money. Um like my main

question is is what would be the best course to take to like kind of open his

eyes to I'm not spending my money

wisely. I should be doing this and this.

>> What What happened eight years ago when you were going to teach him work ethic and you didn't?

>> We tried. I feel like we tried. Um,

we're pretty good with money. We tried

to teach them that. We don't go out to eat very often. Like all through their growing up, we don't go out to eat. And I don't know if that's like the main thing. Like he eats out all the time.

when he was in college, he said, "No, he doesn't work extra." >> That's what the main thing is. He doesn't work.

>> Walmart at $14 an hour is what 16 year olds do.

Not grown men.

>> Where is he? Where's he living?

>> Uh, we're in Texas.

>> No. Where does he live? In her house.

>> He's with us. Yes.

>> And And >> And we pay >> I'm telling you this. >> We pay everything. >> Cuz I love you. But that's the problem.

He he he can't learn something that Let me put it this way. What he's doing, his behavior makes perfect sense in his world. He gets checks that fall from the sky every quarter. He has no rent. He

and he has a mom and dad that said, "You have to get a job." And he goes, "Okay, I'll work six hours a week and y'all pay

his his cell phone, you pay his insurance, you pay for everything." So, >> well, we that's one of the that's one of the things is he's supposed to pay his car insurance. He's supposed to do a lot of crap he doesn't do, but you don't make him do nothing, >> right? >> You don't take it away.

>> And the only way this changes, literally the only way this changes, I've worked with this age group my entire career.

The only way this changes is if you all sit down and you and your husband come to an agreement that you're going to weather the storm because hell's coming and you're going to sit down and say, "At the end of this month, you're out >> or two months or whatever." >> Right. Part of the problem with that is is he would move in with his bomb.

>> Okay. Well, that's good. >> And she she kind of coddles him.

>> That's funny. >> Kind of.

>> No. Wait a minute. Honey, you got the coddling thing down. Okay.

>> Everybody's cuddling. >> You can't You can't hand that off to her. You got that down to a science.

>> Everyone is. >> This kid, this kid has coddling from every direction. He's just a coddler.

>> I mean, he was in college for a year.

So, this >> Honey, the kid's got to move out. Yeah, I >> mean, I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore. >> You know, you you all you can talk about is the stuff he doesn't do. He has no problems. Your job is to help him have some problems. >> That's it. That's exactly right.

>> He doesn't have there's no reason for him to change his behavior. >> Or think think about it this way. His life is a weight room. And every time he gets under the bar to start lifting weights to get stronger, to deal with life, one of the parents, you or his

mother and her whoever she's with, run in there and take all the weight off the bar. And so now you've got a kid who's 19 who has never lifted the bar in his life cuz each parent keeps running there saying, "I don't want to be the bad one. You don't want to be the bad one." And now you got a 19-year-old that literally does not know how to lift anything heavy. And so it's it's abuse.

y'all are robbing this young man. And I get the pickle you're in. The moment you say, "Hey, you got to get out." He's going to go, "Okay, I'll just go over here." >> Then that's fine. You can't that you can't control that. >> But you can control your part in the equation. Quit trying to control his part. >> That's right. >> You can't control his part of the equation. Okay. This is a kid who thinks going to class is hard work. That's

funny. >> Or six hours a week is hard.

>> Yeah. I'm now I've got a job part-time.

He's smoking a lot of pot.

A lot. Yeah. There's no ambition

anywhere in this guy. >> Well, and man,

>> here's the thing, Dave. Like,

I heard somebody say this about a year ago, and man, it has been a like a knife

right in my chest cuz he's right. And he said, "I don't want to hear another person say quote unquote, these kids these days because it's not the kids

haven't changed. It's the adults in their lives who have changed who are not expecting, not giving these young people, especially 17, 18, 19, and 20 year olds the gift of experiencing hard

challenges and overcoming those challenges so they can feel a sense of confidence to go do the next thing. He should have had a part-time job when he was 15 or 14 so that he could learn how

to do that so he could have the privilege of having a full-time job when he's 19 or 20. Drop out of college, fine, but you got to go be a part of the workforce. Workforce is hard, right? But he's been robbed every step of the way by adults in his life. They can't get along. Can't be unified. And here you go. This is what we get >> for his own good. >> Golly, the only thing we're unified on is coddling. >> That's it. or using him to outparent the

other parent now that we're divorced or whatever the mess is.

>> But adults need to come together on behalf of these young people and say we're robbing them of the experiences

that life's going to throw and hit them right in the mouth with. And you know the thing that there's a couple of things I always go back to in remembering all this is teach your kids to do hard things. >> Yes. And Andrew Andrews talks about you're not raising kids to be great kids. You're raising kids to become great adults.

And if you're doing that then that involves teaching them adult skills right age appropriately with increasing intensity so that when they are age appropriate they are able to leave the nest and the mother eagle the nest is

filled with down but it is a nest built with thorns >> and then as the baby eagles grow she

begins to pull the down out of the nest and the thorns begin to stick them >> and it becomes increasingly uncomfortable. able to stay in the nest if you are a baby eagle until you finally stand up on the edge of the nest and fall out and spread your wings and

fly >> sore, dude. Yeah, >> cuz an eagle that doesn't leave the nest is eventually known as a turkey. And so this is how this works. So yeah, you you make it increasingly uncomfortable to live there. Um because it is good for your child development. People will tell you it is good for your dignity to pay your own light bill and buy your own milk and clean your own clothes

instead of your mommy doing it. It's just good for your development. And um I've watched it with my three as they grew up and left the nest and didn't have to. We weren't mad at them. There wasn't any anger. There wasn't anything.

But just when they quit living under our roof and they had to do their own stuff, they walk different. >> Yeah, they're right. They talk different. >> They carry themselves differently.

>> And it's you're doing them no favor delaying their development.

>> And this kid, he needs some hard work.

>> Yeah. >> I I want some problems for him. I want him to have some problems to solve. He's had no problems in a long time. And so, yeah, desperately needs trouble. And by the way, getting a neighbor, if you got young kids, getting a neighbor that will let your nine-year-old come over and sweep the front porch for a dollar.

Those kind of things are amazing at, and we're not talking about sweat shops. I'm not talking about like you got to pull like you do eight hour days. That's not what I'm talking about at all. But letting your kid mow the yard, letting your kid go out and do some things, letting letting them take um feedback from a neighbor that you trust or from somebody at your church that you trust.

Hey, you did a good job here, but you missed this corner right here. It builds dignity and character. And I'm telling

you, man, you got kids that just walk differently when they know how to work.

>> The one that always kills me on that was I was cutting grass. I was 12 years old.

my neighbor and I have no idea. He was the nicest man, but his nickname was Slugger.

Slugger Carneahan. I cut his grass for $3. And he came out there with one of these little fork things. He goes, "Quit

cutting the weeds. Use this and dig the weeds out. When you cut the weeds, you spread the weeds and I get more weeds." And he walked around and made me go over his whole yard and dig them out. Wore me out. 12 years old, man. Three bucks.

>> Yeah. $3, man. and his name's Slugger.

So you don't know you you got to do it.

I mean, it's like it's not an option.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Julie's in Kansas City. Hi Julie, how are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

Um my question is um about preparing um

financially for uh disability in my

future. Um and it will be before typical retirement age. Um I'm 45 right now. Um,

I have a degenerative disease that'll um

I will probably be wheelchair bound uh within 10 years.

>> What do you got? Huh? >> Um um multiple sclerosis.

>> Yeah, I was thinking. Okay.

>> Um so it causes me a lot of nervous system problems and I work full-time right now with accommodation. Mhm.

>> Um but uh in the conversation with my doctors, it has been about um

it's been about, you know, how to plan

um quality of life, right? Um >> good. Okay.

>> And you already, I'm sure, because of the diagnosis, know a lot more about this than I do. the um I've had several

experiences with customers over the years and friends um uh and the

fatigue and stress with one of my

friends uh seems to accelerate her

symptoms.

>> Yes, that is very uh true for me as

well. >> Okay. And so anything you can do to lower that. And in her case, they gave her the same prognosis. That was 20 years ago and she's still walking around fine. Not fine, she's got MS, but she's not wheelchair bound. So, but she's managed, she's really, really managed the fatigue and the stress. And I think that's part of her >> uh doing so well. So, back to your

question, how do you get ready for this from a financial perspective? What do you make?

Um I I teach at in higher ed. I am I am

at 92 uh right now and that's with teaching overload and teaching summer classes. >> And I'm assuming you're single.

>> I am I am divorced a year ago. Okay.

After 24 years. >> Okay. >> And um so you make 92. And how much money do you have in your nest egg today?

>> Um so the divorce was quite messy. It was there was a lot of financial issues.

um behind the scenes that I didn't know about when everything started. So, after

everything was said and done, um I am no

longer I don't have any commercial credit card debt. I have about $50,000

is in retirement and I'm because I of

the particular institution I teach at, I'm part of the um public school teacher pension. So, uh 15% of my paycheck goes

into teacher pension.

Um, I never see that money. Um,

>> first thing I want to do then is I want to investigate um >> at at the point that you were declared disabled, what does the pension look like?

>> Do you know that already?

>> Um, yes. When I when I ran that, there's an option for a lump sum that is about 75,000 and then that would be 2,200 a

month after that lump sum or altogether

if I don't do the lump sum, it's about 26 a month.

>> Okay. And that's 10 years from today.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, you're already doing your research. Well done. That's good. That's good information to have.

>> I'm a I'm I would rather know

>> Yeah. Yeah. what what could happen even if it's very very bad. >> Okay. And you got $50,000 as well in a

retirement. Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. Um my car is paid off. Um I am renting right now.

>> Um the marital home was sold and that covered um the a large portion of the

commercial debt that he had run up.

>> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. And so um

All right. Well, the the math answer to

the equation, and you already knew this before you called me, but I'll just say it out loud again, is

if this occurs 10 years from today, the

lower your expenses are and the higher your nest egg is, the easier the process

is going to be financially. Okay, no kidding, Dave. I already knew that.

Okay, so the point being, stay out of debt. You probably do get into a house,

something modest.

And uh it would be really cool if you could get it paid off

>> because that lowers your expenses and increases your sustainability mathematically. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And because you got the biggest item in your budget line item is housing. It always is. And so if you got a zero there or you only got property taxes and insurance there because it's paid off, then you've got a real sustainable

situation.

and you know the the 2400 and the money

you can make off of the 50,000 and the 75,000 by the way that 50,000 by then by

the time this all happens will be uh 200,000 >> okay >> if it's invested in good mutual funds and then yes I would take the lump sum if this occurs the 75 if that's the actual number that it happens and every way everything goes down and I'm going to roll that into an IRA and invest that

in good mutual funds that will give you a better rate of return than the pension will, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yes. If if I could choose not to participate in the pension, I would >> Yeah. But but I'm just saying when you get to the point that you are declared disabled or you get to the point that you're retired and they offer you a lump sum on a pension, always take it.

>> Okay? >> And always take it. It's take as much as they'll let you take and then roll that because it'll create more money for you than it will if it's left there. That's the bottom line. >> Okay? And when you die, the pension dies with you and the money that's in your investment accounts does not die with you. It goes to your heirs.

>> So, um, you know, that kind of thing.

But anyway, >> so if I you have done such a good job

analyzing all this stuff and you're such a detailed person, you get peace from the knowledge. I can tell by talking to you. And and so I'm if I'm you, I'm going to run some spreadsheet stuff out into the future and go, "Okay, I'm if I get a house, I'm going to sit down with my Smart Vtor Pro, start talking about investing this 50K in some good mutual funds." So it will double about every 5 to seven years, something like that. And

um >> that that it should if it's making 10, 11, 12%, that's what how often it's going to double. And so that's how I'm getting to 200 on this. And um and of

course the 10 years is not set. Could be eight, could be 18, >> could be never.

>> And the the more of a plan you have, you

get peace from that um the more I think

that helps your prognosis, but I'm not a medical doctor.

>> Yeah.

One of the difficulties over the last two years with the divorce has been like it really just I had a lot of disease progression. >> Yes. And then also just keep get trying to get my just like my cortisol and all those stress things down. Um, >> and Julie, let's I'm going to change a word. >> Can we change one word?

>> Yeah, >> let's change the word progression

>> to Yeah. flare up

because major traumatic moments, major traumatic seasons does exacerbate MS

symptoms, right?

>> Mhm. Maybe it did push it down the track a little bit >> or maybe it was a flare up and it goes back. >> Yeah. So, here here's a question I want you to take to your doctor. Okay.

>> What must be true for me to push this thing off seven years?

>> Okay. >> Excuse me. I was coughing.

>> What must be true? So, they said about 10 years. All right. Cool. Let's make a 15-year plan.

What? exercise, counseling, therapy,

trauma work. What must I do now? It may

not work, but let's go out guns ablazing

on trying to push this thing down the track, not just resigning to the fact that it's 10 years and I'm wheelchair bound forever. And by the way, you're in a great job where if you are wheelbound wheelchair bound, you can still teach.

You can still be involved with students at some level. Um, but let's see if we could if a if a doctor will make a plan with you and see what would happen.

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Corey in Indiana. Corey writes, "My mother-in-law just died and left $75,000 to my wife. I

told my wife to use the money to pay off our debts, and she responded by asking, "How dare you think of a way to spend my money?" I had to walk away from her at that point because she's been using my wages since we got married to pay off

her debts and have always been willing to sacrifice or delay things to wipe them out. We currently owe about 25,000 in credit card and unsecured loans, which would still leave her with $50,000. I've tried to explain to her that if we keep paying the loans from my paychecks, it's only going to keep us further from getting ahead in life. How do I get her to understand this concept?

Oh boy.

Um, y'all need to go to a marriage counselor ASAP because y'all are living separate, parallel lives. Y'all aren't living a united marriage. Y'all are co-managing a household. >> Sounds like two children. >> That's it. It's

my my money. It's like fouryear-olds in

kindergarten stealing a toy.

>> Yeah. Or like trading lunch like those are my Cheetos. Well, this is my baloney sandwich. Well, and then somebody gets a package of Twinkies and it's like, well, these are my like, man, y'all got y'all have bigger issues here.

Um because this is y'all's wages and this is y'all's debt and this is y'all's inheritance quite honestly. Um and until

you're able to come together in that way, y'all are going to continue to run parallel lives and have bigger and bigger challenges. >> Yeah. We are aligned on our desired

future and we are in agreement on how we

are going to get there and then we don't have a separate life.

Uh that's why when you walk down the aisle, the preacher says, "And now you are one." He didn't say, "And now you

are roommates with rights."

And that's how that works. >> Yeah. >> And and I still I still go back to it.

You guys hear me, if you listen to the show all the time, you hear me quote it all the time cuz I was just fascinated because I had never heard it. and a buddy of mine that is in an old school church traditional he pulled out the book of common prayer and showed me the marriage vows from the old days

>> and you know we all know or most people know or have heard in sickness and in health richer for poor you know until death do his part right we all kind of that's kind of the and that's part of but there was a another portion to it that somehow they quit using unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge

>> in other words and we are now one >> and um and when your mama dies, we are

going to get 75 grand. That's how that's going to work. And so it's a different thing. >> Cory, to answer your real question, how do I get her to understand this concept about paychecks? This isn't a math problem. And I think that's the challenge is y'all are both solving two different problems. She is solving a an

emotional relationship problem and you're running around trying to solve a math problem. And it it's it's kind of like trying to measure from here to over there using gallons. Both are good measurements, but it's the wrong measurement for the wrong application. This isn't a math problem.

This is a marriage problem. This is a togetherness problem. Y'all are both walking around thinking the other person's better or worse than each other. And that contempt that that somebody from on high is casting judgment or taking from the person down below you, it's just rotting out your marriage. And so y'all need to go sit with somebody and level out.

>> Yeah. We are in agreement on our goals

and we are going to combine all forces

to get to those goals. >> And we're going to be honest about all of our debts. >> Yeah. >> And we're going to work on them together. >> Yep. Exactly. Mike's with us in New Jersey. Hey, Mike. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Doing good. So I have a question. And I know you always preach the uh to pay off your mortgage if you can.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, I have I have 690,000 in a high

yield savings account. I have 233,000 in

a trading account, stock trading account. I have about 95,000 in an IRA.

And my wife has about 150,000 in a 401k

for her job. >> Wow. Way to go. >> Now, yeah. The the mortgage on the home

is 419 >> Mhm.

>> We don't have any debt, no credit card debt. Cars are paid off.

>> The only debt we have is the mortgage.

>> Mhm. >> The mortgage rate, it's a 30-year loan at 4%.

>> Mhm. >> We're 6 years in. >> Mhm.

>> We have a daughter and that's all.

>> I'm just trying to see if the wise decision is to pay the mortgage. If your

house was paid off, would you go borrow

money on it to put it into investments?

>> No. >> Why not? It's the same thing.

>> I don't know. I just wouldn't do that.

>> It's the same 4%. It's the same thing.

>> If I would borrow if you take money out of your investment and pay off the mortgage, it's the exact same mathematical transaction as to borrow on your home to put money into an investment. It's the opposite. We're just reverse engineering here.

>> Yeah. And I feel like also having the mortgage is is a good write off also.

>> No, it's not. >> Whereas if I didn't have it No.

>> No. It's a horrible ride off.

>> It's a horrible ride off. >> So you have 400,000 at what rate?

>> $419,000 at 4%. It's a 30-year loan

>> because you have $16,000 in interest a year. And you know what that saves you on taxes?

>> $6,000. So, you're giving the mortgage company 16,000 to keep from giving the government six. That's a dumb butt trade. >> Yeah. >> That's a write- off. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> You're trading dollars for 30 cents.

>> Yeah. >> Bad trade. >> Okay. >> That's how a write off works. You probably are actually itemizing. But only 8% of Americans itemize. And that's the only time you can do a write-off, but you got enough of an income.

>> I I get paid on a on a 1099 and my wife.

So, you're too >> Yeah. You're not You're not You're not But yeah, you can anyway to pay off the mortgage. >> There's number one, you would I'd pay off your mortgage today.

>> Number two, okay, >> here's why. I've never in 35 years

talked somebody into paying off their mortgage and them come back and go, "Wow, I hated it so much I went and got a new mortgage." >> Yeah. I've never in one time

>> tens of millions of listeners over 35 years that I've re never a single person has said Dave that's a dumb I felt so horrible not having a mortgage I went and got me a new one I've never heard that one time thinking of buying like an investment property tax and here's the other thing we we studied 10,000 millionaires not a single millionaire out of the 10,000 we talked to said I made my money by borrowing on my home and investing that money. None of them

said that's how I became a millionaire.

Not one. That strategy is mythology in

people's brains, but it never actually occurs in the real world when you get out in the wild. The number of millionaires that said, "I borrowed money on my house, invested it, and that's how I got rich," was precisely zero out of 10,000 of them that we

talked to. Zero did that. Also, Zero

said I got rich on my airline miles, too. So, there you go. You know, and so

on. And uh you know, this is what you're doing. So, anyway, if I were in you, you I just pay off my house. And if you hate it and I'm wrong, you can go get you a mortgage and you won't hate it.

You won't hate it. Yeah. There's something about you got that little girl at home. There's something Just telling you, man.

There's something about uh going to bed at night knowing they can't ever take that house away from that little girl. >> Yeah. It just changes everything. >> Got a place to live.

>> Yeah. Got a place to live. It changes everything.

don't quantify the weight associated with this in our

relationships um in our spirit physically.

The way you you manifest in your body the weight of debt. We none of us quantify any of that. All we do is go, "Well, the mortgage rates cheap." But dude, and when you can breathe deeper, you haven't got a back. >> I call it my sleep tax. If so what if it's 2% difference or three, I don't care. Oh, that's my sleep tax.

>> I get to sleep really well.

>> I'll pay that happily.

Nothing to think about that.

[Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the very popular Dr.

John Deloney show on Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. Jesse's in Texas.

Hi, Jesse. How are you?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Uh, my question is, uh, I'm 27 years

old. Uh, I stay at home with my two young children right now. Uh, my wife works. Uh, we're in about $100,000 worth of debt and, um, I do like deliver food

on the evenings to make some extra money. But really, my question is, how do I balance working? because it's kind of when she comes in, I'm out the door. How we balance that marriage and family time with also trying to take care of this debt at the same time.

>> What does she make?

>> Um about 60.

>> Okay. And what kind of debt is the 100,000?

>> Uh $60,000 is student loans. Um about

$27,000 in a car and then the rest is credit card debt.

>> You need to sell a car. Yeah.

>> Yeah. We we've looked into that. I know right now we're like upside down. I think about 10 grand in it.

>> Yeah. You need a solid car.

>> Yeah. >> You got a car you can't afford. And you don't drive a $27,000 car with $60,000 income. >> Yeah.

>> Um and I don't I don't think you're really upside down 10K >> on 27. Um and you know, unless you

traded Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into it?

No, no, we just didn't put anything down on it. So, >> yeah. Okay. And dude, I I'm saying this

because I love you. I don't I don't know that you're in a position right now to be a full-time stay-at-home dad.

>> Yeah, we thought about that. It's just that a lot of the daycarees in this area, we're looking between two and 3K.

And that's probably about what I would be able to bring in a month.

>> Why is Why is that?

>> Um I just That's before we had the first

baby. Um, >> no, not the dayare costs. I know daycare costs are just are are breaking people's backs all over the country. I get that. I'm talking about why do you think you could only make $2,000 a month?

>> I don't buy that. >> Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's just what I was before before I stopped working. Yeah, I was I was bringing about 24,400. Um, which would be the cost of daycare. >> Um, I just worked into in a meat market in a grocery store.

>> That that's what I'm leaning on. Like if you made it your mission to like double

and triple serve your family for two years and get this debt out of control.

I I'm just telling you right now, y'all aren't going to be able to make it. Oh ow. And that kind of money and trying to get a home and raising two kids on 60K.

It's it's it's not a it's not a values question, dude. It's a math problem.

>> Yeah. And my and my wife is in the process of of trying to get she's been in the same industry for about 10 years. And so she's trying to make more money herself. That's kind of why we >> I know. I want to push on you. She's not on the phone. I want to push on you.

>> Yes, sir. >> Like, if if if you have capped yourself out and said, "The only thing I could ever do to serve my family is to work in a meat market and make $2,300 or $2,400

a month, then I'd want to spend some time with you over some nachos, man, and challenge that because I don't believe it. >> I think you're selling yourself way way short." And if that's the case, then for a season, I'm going to work at a meat market and I'm going to come home. I'm going to high-five my wife and kiss my kids and I'm going back out because for centuries men have left their home for years to serve and honor their families.

And that's what I got to do right now because we owe $100,000.

>> Yeah. And that's kind of weird because like right now I probably make $1,000 to $1,500 just um doing deliveries. Like when she comes in the door, I leave. And so we figured that with the cost of the daycare, you know, then we're looking at really I need to bring $3,500 in or something along those lines before we would break even on me having a job or like a full-time job, you know.

>> Yeah. Well, here's what John's saying.

The full-time job and you keep the delivery. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Every stinking night if that's what you got to do to get your self yourself out, get your butt out of this problem.

>> So, here's the thing. The point of the conversation is you seem to think there's a process by which you can avoid pain here.

>> There's going to be pain here.

>> You just should choose it instead of letting it choose you.

>> Yeah. The pain could be the pain could be the the fin the ongoing financial stress and the toll that that takes on your marriage and and you you don't do anything about it in the name of nurturing kids and in the name of uh I need to be home when my wife is home because I don't ever see her and that how do I have life balance? Well, you have life balance when you get your butt cleaned up because you made a mess.

That's when you have life balance. But right now, you're not going to have life balance because your life is out of balance. And I'm not saying this people can hear this as I'm shaming them. I'm not. I'm just telling the truth. Kids

will baste in the angst of a home that

is buried financially.

And so if you are staying at home and

your wife is making 60K and y'all have a

hundred grand in debt, that house is

going to be a stressful, chaotic place.

Period. It just is. because there's never going to be enough month at the end of your money ever. >> And the irony is the very thing you were trying to protect, you're cooking it.

>> Yeah. You they're going to baste in that stress and that anxiousness and that frustration and those the fights and

Yeah, dude. There's just a season when you have to say, I I got to get after it. >> I'm I'm going to strap on a tool belt and it's not coming off till I get this mess cleaned up. Get after it.

>> I want more than anything for families to be in a position to choose for somebody to stay home. I I I love that with all my guts, but y'all have a math problem that you got to solve, man.

>> Yep. And you know those kids, they like

to eat. So, there's that.

Uh, okay. Wendy's in Oregon. Hey, Wendy.

What's up? >> Hi there. Um, my husband and I have uh

three kids. Um, we raised identical twin boys and our older daughter who just got married to a great guy with an amazing family. And so what we we actually did financial peace years ago went through that program. So we had already had sorry about that.

We continued to tell the kids we will provide room and board for you when you go to college but we will not have any money for you for college. We're sorry. The option was mom got to stay home with the kids. So we were able to do that.

Um which means no college money which was something they were always clear about.

And now our boys have each chosen not to

go to college, but they're heading into trades, which is great. So, now we're at

the point where we're happy to have them still live here, but we're trying to determine what that looks like for them

paying us every month. And >> they just need to go get an apartment.

>> You think? Oh, I'm sure. Well, they do have some great friends and they love to go get >> Oh, I love my kids, too. But they need to go get an apartment.

>> Yeah. >> Matter of fact, the two boys could do it together cuz they're both going in the trades. They're twins. They're used to living together. They can split expenses and just go be roommates. That'd be awesome. >> And Yeah. And then our house is clean all the time. >> Yeah. And they can come over and visit.

You can have dinner. >> And Wendy, can I tell you something?

It's okay that you don't want them to live there. You're still a good mom.

>> It's okay that you want them to be gone.

the hurricane that is 18-y old boy. Like it you're not a bad mom, but I think Dave's right. I'd much rather you say, "Hey guys, we're gonna pay your first two months. Y'all get out." Um, yeah. At

least that's what I would do if I was in your case. >> Yeah. And if you're going into the trades, better be working, son. Got to pay rent. Ch. That's what you chose.

Strap on the tool belt. Seems to be a theme.

[Music]

Heat. Hey, Heat.

[Music]

Brandon's in Michigan. Hey Brandon, how are you? >> Hey Dave, hey John, how are you both today? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Good. Uh, first off, thank you both for your time. Uh, Dave, thank you for again for giving me a couple minutes on the show. I'll try to be conscious of the time, but uh, I do need a quick minute to just uh, provide us some information.

>> Okay, >> so first things first, I'm 27 years old.

I dated and married my high school sweetheart, and we've been together for six years now. Uh we got a couple beautiful boys at home and

a few years ago my wife and I we were renting and we were working growing our family and we were able to put money aside at the time and you know pay down our debt to got some student loan debt, our cars. The situation we found ourselves in a year and a half ago was our our middle child uh passed away and it was Sudsy and it was unexpected and unexplained. Um, and obviously we weren't prepared for it and we weren't financially prepared for it. >> How old How old was your baby?

>> He was a year and a half old. >> Year and a half. >> Thanks. >> And you said it was it was Sids or what' you say it was? >> It's It's Sud. It's like Sids but for

non-infant. A little bit older. >> Oh, I got you. Okay, I'm so sorry.

>> Oh my gosh. What was your name?

>> Thank you guys. His name was Carter.

>> Carter. I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. Thank you guys. Um anyway, so

here's ultimately my question. Uh one of

the outcomes of his loss was I needed to

get my family out of the house. U my wife held on to memories in each room and it was haunting her. So I needed to get her out of the house and we ended up purchasing a home >> and it was at a time when we really weren't ready to be purchasing a home.

But >> here we are now a year later.

>> Um so ultimately this is my question.

I'm I'm 27 years old. I'm trying to lead my wife. I'm trying to raise my other sons the best I can. My wife and I, we want to continue to be fruitful and to multiply and to grow our family. But what I'm finding is even after allocating every single dollar of income I bring in, it's we find that expenses

continue to go up and we keep spinning our wheels. So my question is, >> how much is your house payment? How much is your house payment? Honey, >> mortgage mortgage is about two grand. uh not including >> what's your what's your take on monthly >> 97 uh monthly after taxes and um

benefits it's about 50 uh 5750 a month

>> okay what what benefits are coming out of your check >> I don't put anything away for retirement right now it's just basically uh everything medical dental insurance >> gotcha and you've got uh and you've got debt other than the home >> yes sir um we've got about 3,000 left.

Uh we only have one working car right now and it's got about 3,000 left on it.

Um and I have 18,000 in student loans and then of course there's the mortgage.

>> Mhm. >> So >> what's wrong with the other car?

>> Uh we don't owe anything on it. It's just it's old. The alternator went out I don't know maybe eight months ago. And like I said, we're we're kind of spinning our wheels. I work from home so it's not really needed right now. So we we haven't put the money back into it to get it up and running. kind >> What's it worth if you did get it up and running?

>> It's It's honestly a salvage title. Um

it I after putting money into it, maybe I could sell it for three, four grand, but Okay. >> I'd have to deduct whatever expenses go back into it. So, >> yeah. Well, an alternator an alternator is not three grand.

>> Sure. No. Yeah, I understand. >> You find a buddy that turns a wrench and go put an alternator on the thing, get it sold, and that'll pay off some of your debt. That's thing that's thing one. But you've got bigger issues than that. >> Um, >> sure.

>> And again, we're we're not drowning, Dave. Um, >> well, you've had you've had a tragedy,

honey. I've had a trauma.

>> Sure. And so you guys are hurting and

it's just hard to do um efficient

mathematics and financial management >> when your heart is broken.

>> It takes a minute.

>> So give yourself permission to spend a little.

>> Okay. >> It may take a minute for the family to get back up. It should take a minute if you're not whacked. >> And it is. It is. I mean, it takes a little while for y'all to >> get up. I I don't disagree. Maybe you shouldn't have bought this house, but the house's not killing you.

>> It's not It's a little high, but it's not it's not it's not disturbing me horribly, but I don't think you're going to make tremendous leaps forward

>> the year after you lose a one and a halfyear-old.

>> Sure. >> What's the state of What's the state of your wife? How's she doing?

>> We've we've grown a lot the last year and a half. Um, and I'm sure you guys

have your own experiences with grief. It just comes and goes.

>> I'm at a point where I can >> How's your wife doing, Brandon?

>> Not good, Dave. >> Yeah, >> but we're we're okay. And you know, >> Hold on, Brandon. Brandon. Brandon. Brandon, you keep saying we're okay.

You're not.

>> Okay. >> And that's And that's okay.

>> Yeah. It's okay to not be all right, but I want you to own it. Okay.

>> It's And let me put it this way. It's exhausting to try to continually be wallpapering over this hurt inside your

house, right?

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, here's the thing. If you don't make any financial progress for the next

two years, 18 months, one year, but the

two of you are able to move through some

of this and get some healing during that

time, that's a victory.

>> Okay. >> I don't think you're going to do both at the same time.

>> Do you? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here's the here's the way I usually when I sit down with a couple who's been exactly where you are, here's what I always tell them. The marriage and the life that y'all had is over now.

>> It's over. And so the same goals, the same timelines, the same trajectories, the same career goals, everything changes after that.

And so the challenge is will we choose each other to stay married? And child loss is uh

one of the big indicators of marriages that really really struggle because people grieve differently.

>> Yeah. >> And y'all have probably experienced I can't believe you're already moving on and I can't believe you're still still can't get out of bed. Like y'all have probably grieved at different different trajectories because that's what grief is. It's just different for everybody.

And so we're going to decide we're going to rebuild a life together and it's going to be really tough out of the gate. And so, like Dave said, dude, staying staying square at staying square for the next 24 months is a huge win.

>> It's just recognizing we got a new marriage. We got a new house. We have a new everything. And we wanted five kids.

Well, right now, we might still have five kids, but they're going to be a bigger gap between them. And there's a six-year gap between my son and my daughter. Not how we drew it up. We had some losses along the way. That's what we got. And right now, our house is pretty magical place. And there was a lot of pain to get here.

>> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. >> What's important for me is that you and your wife a year into this, you all go sit with somebody.

>> Mhm. >> And y'all say, "Okay, we have been in the black hole for a year, rightfully so. We're going to stay in a dark place

for a while, but we're going to keep the lights on. We're going to keep going. We're going to keep grinding." What does it look like to begin to not heal, but

what does it look like to start turning some light switches on? What does that feel like? What is the pain associated with that? And what does that look like to start raising the the blinds a little bit? >> Yeah. That's that's with a good therapist. >> Yeah. So, sitting with a professional that will walk with you. >> Yeah. >> And you should feel a little bit crazy.

You should feel a little bit stuck. You should feel a little bit like, why? All that stuff is right and good. Um, but yeah, Dave, you nailed it. like give yourself some grace during this season, man. You are a good husband and you're an incredible father and you are keeping the lights onto that place and man, it's an honor to talk to you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. If you can function perfectly in

the middle of a tragedy like that, you're a psychopath. >> Right. Right. Right.

Then I'd be worried about you. Yeah. If you're wondering what do we do and what day is it, that's right where you should be. >> Yeah.

Yeah. If if my brain's spinning out of my spinning out of control all the time and I you know I get distracted and suddenly waves catch a wave of grief catches me off guard and knocks me off balance. That would make you a normal human being. >> That's right.

And good and holy. That's right. >> Yeah. Because what you've been through is one of the most horrible things a human can experience.

>> Shouldn't be that way. >> Hate it for you, brother. >> I hate it. Yeah. Give yourself a little room. Get some help to walk through that. That's the best thing you can do for your money, oddly enough. But money is not our motivator in this conversation.

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Buying or selling a home in this crazy market is something else. If you want to know what the facts are on US housing market trends, not what somebody's

dramabased opinion on tic tac is, if you

want to know what's really going on, just go over to ramiesolutions.com/market and we got it all there for you and you can click the link in the show notes if you want to. It'll drop you right in there. Teresa is going in Ohio. Hi

Teresa, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Dr. John. Thank you for having me. >> Sure. How can we help?

My question is both a financial and a moral one. Um, my parents are both approaching 80 years old and not in the best of health. My father is adamant

about a full-blown funeral and he's very

much against cremation, but they only thing they have prepped for is to buy the burial plots like 25, 30 years ago.

And they have nothing. They have no they live with a family member. So they have there's no assets that they own.

Um, they're both living off of social security. My dad on a disability social security that he's had since 1989.

And I guess just morally now that he's been in and out of a nursing home on a mild mild start to the dementia, I just

want to be prepared. I I'm I'm torn.

>> Oh, so you're torn because they're asking you to pay for the funeral.

>> Well, there's no other means to do so.

And I have siblings and I don't I've tried to talk to my dad cuz he is somewhat with us, you know, as far as conversation. And he just feels that uh

cremations are morally wrong and he

thinks that everything's been paid for and then my mom looks at me and says, "No, it's not." So, >> well, does somebody look at him and say, "It's not been paid for." >> We've tried. We've tried.

>> And he just said, "What? I don't care."

He's in in his mind he thinks it's all been taken care of because he has his plot. He'll tell you where it's located and what tree it's by and there's a lot more to that. And my sibling lost a wife about two three years ago now. And he said, you know, it was over 20ome,000 for the funeral. >> Well, that's not true. No, shouldn't be.

>> Yeah. It feels like you got it. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

>> So, uh, what what do you guys make? What do you you and your husband? Are you married? Yes, I'm married. My husband and I are actually we're on our second round of um the Dave Ramsey plan and I during COVID

we fell off that plan, but we plan to be out of debt by uh November of this year and our home was paid off the first round. So, >> excellent. What's your household income?

>> Um we both make 75 a year

>> each. So, 150. >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay, cool. So, um, you know what I

would do is I I I get the aggravation from you that this is dumped in your lap, so to speak.

>> Um, and I don't blame you for that emotion, but it's not 20 grand. Uh, I think if I'm you, I'm going to, uh, go down to the funeral home and go, "Hey, um, what is the cheapest casket and the

cheapest process?" And I think you're going to find, you know, five to seven. They sell caskets at Costco now.

>> Okay. I did not. >> They do and they're really cheap and they're nice. I looked at one the other day. Um, >> if there's somebody on the planet that's going to get a a casket at Costco, it's it's your one and only Dave Ramsey.

>> Oh man, I'm just George George would do it. >> George would do it, but he needs a smaller casket. Yeah. >> Well, he needs a little casket. >> That's a small little casket. Yeah. But the uh yeah, I I'm seriously I think you're going to budget this thing down.

It's not going to be a big old pile of money. And it it the actual math is not

going to be that aggravating, but the emotion of the aggravation is still going to be there until you turn it loose because it's not going to change.

It's not going away. Everything you've described is there's no out for this. Um

and the good news is you make 150 and you're almost out of debt. you'll be able to, you know, so five grand, seven grand or whatever, and you just go, "Okay, I'm just going to plan on taking $5,000 or $7,000 out of my emergency fund, uh, or out of my savings or something when he passes, and I'm going to >> put him in the, uh, the cheapest possible burial arrangement that is not

cremation." And um I would shop and you

know when you call a funeral home, go down there and talk to them and say, "I'm going to go to two or three funeral homes, so y'all better give me the deal because I'm I'm actually shopping price.

I'm pre-planning and this is all about price. So you better give me your cheapest one or you're not going to get this deal." >> Okay. >> And and tell me about you you mentioned them, but let's say the total bill is 7,000 bucks and we're making that number up. Who knows?

Why wouldn't you call your siblings and say, "Hey, everybody's going to pitch in 1,500 bucks on this deal." >> I I believe that two of them would financially be able to, but um one would not. So, I mean, >> and that's fine. I mean, >> say, "Okay, look, we're going to cover this and I'd like for everybody to put in if you can." >> Yeah. And here's the bill.

And and by the way, once you get this information nailed down and it's all pre-planned and you know exactly what it is because you're doing this while there's no emotion, you've not got a loss at this moment and so you're pre-planning it and so we're lit we're we're shopping it like we're buying a car or something and we're shop it's very calculated. Go ahead and once you get the place you go okay this place will do it for 5600 bucks or whatever and the number is and it may go up a little during the time if he lived 10 years or something.

expecting us to do this. I'm aggravated about it, but I've reconciled with that and I'm going to put in and I'd if you can put in your part of this, I'd appreciate it. Um I, you know, it it I

wish they had taken care of it, but they hadn't." >> Yeah. And just, you know, you can share that with them in whatever means you want to share, but I would give them the information and let them begin to process the emotion and the frustration and also have some time to prepare mathematically for it. >> That's it. And tell me about the one sibling that you think couldn't pay anything. Why not?

>> Um, there's more children in the home and they're younger.

>> Okay. There's like there's quite a difference. >> I would ask you to not take that from them.

>> Yeah. Give them the opportunity. give them, >> but I'd send it to everybody and let everybody choose.

>> If I found out my brother and my sister went behind my back and did something because they quote unquote thought I couldn't handle it, that would be hurtful. And now, it would be hard for me to say, "Hey, I can't do this, but I can do this." Um, and it's okay to say,

>> "Let me know if you can do your part or what part you can do." That's how I would leave it. And just leave it open-handed. And then you be prepared to write the whole check >> emotionally, >> okay? And it's not going to be that much. It's not as much as your aggravation. Your aggravation. Yeah.

Your aggravation is valid. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> It's just it's it's, you know, they should have done a better job. Dad gum, you know, >> and I want to prepare, you know, our kids and our grandkids for not obviously

going that direction. And I appreciate everything I've learned from you. Um, I did want to add that, you know, with my job, I've had a lot of stress, but I learned that, and I've seen it in the last eight months in paying down my debt, I don't have to be a slave to my income. >> Ah, >> I'm going to be able to to live and

breathe a little bit. >> Yeah. Breathe. Yeah. Get your breath back. Good for you. Proud for you.

That's cool. It's a good question and it's a valid question. Thanks. Thanks for calling in with that. you know, it is um make a will month. So, you know,

it's time. You know, here's the thing.

It is an act. We get these calls of this sort around death, around the estate,

around wills or not having a will or somebody arguing or being cut out of the will or whatever all the time. And it is an act of love to your family to

systematically like a nerd prepare

everything having to do with your last 90 days.

and you know, and you've got a will, you've got a full-blown uh, you know, estate plan, you've got everything, all all your financial information is in a location, a singular location where everyone knows where it is and they can find it. Um, and then it's just an it's just execute the existing plan flawlessly and there'll be

no problems and you you know, you've taken care. I I do not believe in prepaying for a funeral. That's ridiculous. The cost is silly.

you're better off to just put your money in a mutual fund. But it is smart to pre-plan it. And in this case, I would pre-plan it in detail. And by the way, it does feel gross to quote unquote shop.

I get that. And >> if they're a smart business, they will take advantage of you not wanting to shop and so they will inflate the prices. >> They do. >> So let people know, just like Dave said, hey, we're going door to door here.

We're going to run through a couple of of of homes here. um what does this cost? >> Dirty little secret is it's a huge margin. >> Huge margin.

Huge margin.

feels gross and do it anyway.

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Our scripture of the day, Galatians 1:10. Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? Or

am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Jordan Peterson said, "You cannot hit a target that you refuse to see. You cannot hit a target if you don't take aim." And I'll add, "If you don't pull the trigger." Some people rego, ready, aim,

aim, aim, aim, aim. Oh, shut up and

fire.

Seriously, that's Dave Ramsey, though.

Hey, you want to go get a cup of coffee?

You want to go talk about my idea? You want to get some more coffee? Hey, I just need to talk to 17 other people about my idea. It's like, dude, just start the business. Just go.

>> Just go.

>> You've got plenty of wisdom. >> Hey, you know, you got you want to go to lunch? I quit. >> Start the business.

>> It took me I for about 10 years I used to take meetings. These people would come in. They wanted to tell me about an idea, something that we could do and you know, Ramsay should be doing and they had this great idea. And I finally quit because I finally figured out that ideas are a dime a dozen.

People who do them aren't. >> Yes, >> they're harder to find. Ideas are everywhere. >> Everywhere.

>> But people that actually execute, they're hard to find. Melissa's in Oregon. Hey, Melissa.

>> Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, um I considering a a change in

career a bit. Um, I am about 3 days away

from completing my master's degree in um, professional clinical mental health counseling. >> Oo, terrible choice. Terrible choice,

>> says the guy with a PhD. Morons do that.

But well done.

>> Thank you. Thank you. It's been a long hard journey. I've continued to work full-time as I've gone through my master's program. Mhm.

>> Um but I did borrow for um for most of

the schooling itself. And after about 2 and 1/2 years now and on top of clinical hours, I've been doing about 60 hours a week plus school.

>> And um I'm almost done. And my site is asking me to come on full-time. And I'm I'm nervous about giving up my job that I've had for 13 years with my benefits and my 401k and becoming a 1099

employee. And >> what do you make at your job?

>> I bring home about 3,000 3,000 a month.

>> What would you make if you start 1099?

>> Well, that's the thing. It kind of depends on how many clients you have and how many show up. I >> mean, what do you think you're going to make?

>> I'll be doing 35 an hour um to start, which I'm getting about 26 an hour. Um

>> what? Why 35 an hour? Why would you do

that? I know I pay my therapist way more than $35 an hour. >> Like $135 an hour.

>> Yeah, I live in a rural area which um the benefit of staying at my site as I continue super I I will be I could become independently licensed. I live in a border town and I can get independently licensed in Idaho. is about uh 10 minutes away at my site and

but I'm also continuing um I'm taking specialized classes in play therapy to become a registered play therapist and that requires a higher level of lure.

>> Okay, so here here's what I would do if I was you. Okay, here's exactly what I would do. >> Um I would work out arrangements with my

supervisor.

Number one, if this is the only supervisor you have, um I I would shop

around Mhm. >> Um, and I know in a rural area you kind of do what you what you got to deal with. >> Are you married?

>> I am single. >> Okay. Why do you have to stay there?

>> Well, the what the site the the they are qualified for what's called a HERSA grant. So basically with two years of >> Yeah. Why do you have to stay in an area if you can't get $35 an hour? I'm going to go somewhere I can get 135 an hour.

But they will also pay off my student loans, my 30k of student loans by being there at that site within two years of being employed there.

>> Is that after you've done your after you've got full lensure? So after you've given them your 3,000 hours plus your additional play therapy hours, then they're going to pay your loans off after that.

>> No, it starts after um after my degree is confirmed and I get lure, which I'm probably about a month away from. You're going to have your 3,000 hours postgraduate done right right when you graduate?

>> No. Um Idaho only requires a total of 10, excuse me, 1,000 hours with uh 400

being direct. And they will actually um

um allow you to have your internship hours um to uh qualify. So, and I've

done all of that while I'm working full-time therapy. I have had supervisor level. Um >> so here here's what I would do. I would meet a need in your rural area, which is

people who see clients on Saturdays and Sundays, >> and I would sign up personally for 6 to

12 months of really exhausting work 7

days a week. And I would do it at a lot more than $35 an hour or I'm moving.

I'm serious. That I That's That's like

1970 pricing.

Mhm. >> I I have never I know a bunch of marriage counselors that make 100 to 150 a year. A bunch of them.

>> Okay. And if you can't do that there because you're convinced that the people in that area economically can't do that, then you need to do you need to go somewhere else. I I really would. But in terms of if you cuz the answer to the equation is yeah, no wonder you're nervous at $35 an hour and you don't have any customers. But if you're at 75 or $100 an hour, uh, I'm not nervous

anymore if I've got customers because you're going to make so much more than you make now that what little you lose from not having 401k. You can just go get you a Roth IRA with a Smart Investor Pro. It's not a big deal. You can set it up and you're 1099. So, you can do a simple IRA as well, which is a 401k for single employee or small companies. Um,

and you can do a setup. There's all kinds of stuff you can do to replace that. Buy your own health insurance. You can replace benefits with money when you make more money. And so I that that's what the core of the the $35 argument is. I want you to make more money.

You've gone to all this trouble. You've gone to all this exhausting process of doing your hours, doing everything while you're working full-time. For God's sakes, cash the check now. Yeah.

something about this arrangement doesn't sound right and I would really want to check through to make sure you're not getting taken advantage of. So Dave, it's not uncommon for

graduates to have to pay a supervisor for their hours, but and some supervisors will say, "Hey, you come work for me. They're billing out at 100 bucks an hour or 100 whatever it is, but I'm going to pay you 35 bucks an hour while you work towards your hours and you're paying me to supervise you to sign off >> on 1099." >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that's there's two problems here. One is you've backed yourself into a corner by borrowing a bunch of money for a graduate program.

You have a math problem. You may not be able to >> $30,000.

>> Do what? >> She's $30,000 in debt.

>> That's what I mean. But she may not be able to quit her job to go work for 35 bucks an hour.

>> Yes. >> At 1099 to pay off that $30,000 worth of debt. So >> you're saying that $35 an hour because they're taking their cut off top of her.

>> I'm saying if that's the case. She's saying that's not the case. What they're going to do is they're gonna pay her way below market rate and then say, "We're gonna pay your student loans off." >> That's still not a deal. >> That feels like a bad deal.

>> Still not a deal. >> Yeah. It feels like a not good deal. >> If I could have made twice as much money, I don't care.

I'll pay my own student loans. >> That's right. That's exactly right. >> That and I can pay my own benefits and I can pay my own whatever.

>> That's right.

>> Um Yeah. Don't sell yourself short.

That's what we're trying to say. Make sure you make sure you get the details ironed out. And that and really when making any decision, the more options you have, the more power you have and the higher the quality of the decision will be. When you've narrowed it down to one possible outcome, you don't have any power and you don't have and you have a higher probability of making the wrong decision.

And the meaning I'm going to own this is the place. It's got all worked out that this is the place and it doesn't have to be the place.

and they know that you owe 30,000 bucks.

They also know that you've decided they're the only option, which means they can kind of pay you whatever they want. And that's never a good place to find yourself. So, but all I say is I'm

glad you're going to be a therapist. We need more good ones and especially in rural communities, man. Um, but I'm with

Dave, man. If you can retain autonomy,

please please go do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. If if you're clear and you're able to get lensure and just go, then go. That's what you need to do.

That puts the Sour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 163. Take Control of Your Finances by Setting Boundaries | February 9, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair [music] Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us. We have a lovely studio audience today. Fantastic looking people. Full lobby out there.

That's fun. The phone number to jump in isle8255225.LE8825-55225.

[music] We'll take your money questions, your work questions. They all kind of go together. We start off with Madison in Salt Lake City. Madison, how can we help today?

>> Hey there. I've been dealing with some long ongoing um unemployment in my relationship. My partner has been unemployed for two and a half years and most recently when taking him through the finances he kind of shut down, got upset, that I was doing things wrong, but that he didn't want to get a job because it would not benefit him. I'd misuse it somehow.

I'm >> so [laughter] Okay, I hold to the question.

for two and a half years and he said he

doesn't want to get a job because it's not beneficial for what? I didn't catch that last part of that sentence.

>> Of course. Um, he said he didn't want to get a job because it wouldn't benefit him, that I would just misuse the money somehow.

>> Oh, wow. >> Can I ask another question? Why are you still in this relationship?

>> We have children together.

>> Okay. >> But you're not married.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> You can have children together and and still not have this cohabitation

resentment bubbling up here. This is a fact. Okay. But we stopped you. You were

about to get to your main question before George and I cuz we have lots of thoughts. I can already tell you.

>> What is your question?

>> So my main question is, am I being financially abused? But I want to add a layer to that. Okay. >> So we did invest in an Airbnb like remodel and rental together. So he spent a lot of his time over one of those years in reworking that house and getting it running. Um, so he says that

he's working and he's adding value to the relationship through that.

>> Is is the uh Airbnb actually making money?

>> We are in our fifth month and it's paying the bills but it's not turning a profit. >> Well, okay. Um, do you have any evidence

and let's say we were in a court of law and I said, "Give me evidence that your boyfriend is abusing you financially." What evidence would you give me?

the just the lack of support and provision. >> Yeah, I don't think you're being abused, but I don't think semantics matter here.

I do think you're being manipulated.

That statement you gave George and I to start off the call where he looked at you with a straight face presumably and

said with some sort of conviction that a job would not benefit him because you would misuse the money is about as

>> Yeah. He turned it right around to you as a case of manipulation I've ever seen. This guy is an absolutely

broken human being. And that's not an insult. That's an actual diagnosis. I could insult him. I'm not going to because I don't think it helps you. But he's broken. He's deeply broken. He's got to go get some help. And you can't give it to him. And I think he needs some boundaries.

>> I really do. >> What would you suggest? >> I can't continue to support you financially. >> Yeah. We are not going to continue our relationship the way it is now. If you aren't going to support me and the children, if we aren't going to support these kids we've made, you're out.

And here's here's what's easy. His response will be your decision. If he takes ownership and action, there's possible hope and repair for this relationship. And if he doesn't, if he plays the blame game, tries to guilt you, if he panics and gets defensive and makes it your problem, well then you know, yeah, you you've just confirmed all of your suspicions.

Yeah. Let me let me flip it if I might, Madison, just for a moment. Okay. Let's say you had a girlfriend that was in this exact situation and and she told you over lunch or coffee what was going on.

Man, it's it's tough when you look at it from that perspective. It's definitely shocking. Like if it was your friend and they were asking you for help, you'd you'd want them to be treated better%.

>> Which is why I'm keeping you there. But and what else would you tell her to do?

>> Counseling. That's the first thing I would go to. >> Not a bad idea. And And what And what would you tell her to do if the boyfriend or the husband wouldn't go to counseling? What would you tell her to do?

She doesn't have to live that way. I I

100% believe that biblically men should

provide and protect. And if he's not able to do that, then she's not in a healthy relationship anymore. >> Yeah. And wouldn't you after you left her, wouldn't you in the car wonder what else is going on behind the scenes or what might develop long term if he's doing this over money? What happens when the kids are older and there becomes major decisions? Wouldn't you think, man, there there's there's a whole lot to this onion. Would you think something like that? Yes or no?

>> Yeah, it definitely opens up a can of worms. >> Yeah, this Listen, I hope this works out for you, but yeah, you are headed towards abuse and I a professional might

call it abuse. I'm neither one of us are mental health professionals, so I don't want to diagnose it clinically.

>> Yeah, I don't want to label it that, but you are being manipulated and it's not okay. And so, you need to take action right away. He needs very clear boundaries that this is not okay. You don't feel safe and you're not going to do this with the kids. And and it's not a threat, by the way, cuz I can tell you some somebody like this is going to go, "Are you threatening me?" And you go, "No, because see, a threat is what a bully does on the playground.

This is not a threat. This is what's going to happen. And don't play the game. Don't get sucked into this because if he says something like that, he's going to make you feel bad." No, no, no, no.

It's not a threat. I'm telling you, we can't keep doing this. And so we we go see somebody. Now, by the way, I'm the only one working, so I'll pay for it.

But you could also point out to him in all this, and this is where I want to bring George in really quick because there's some technical stuff to this that I know you can put some emotional language around.

so he has no right to her money there.

Just I want you to bring in the technical aspect as if as if we were sitting with this couple going, "Hey, pal Sparky, let me give you some realities." Well, yeah, this is cohabitation and I don't know what the laws are in Utah about what his rights are and and what he's protected and entitled to, but the longer you enable the irresponsibility, the worse this is going to get. Cuz here's what's happened. Your generosity has replaced his urgency. Cuz if you're

hungry and you need to eat and no one's going to provide it, you go find some food. Don't you? >> And he has no right to her money. None.

Correct. >> Yeah. I mean, if this was in the court of law, they'd go, "All right, there there's going to be, you know, you guys are going to figure out how to cover the children together." But he's on his own to figure it out.

>> So, one of the things you do right away is we're going to get counseling and we're separating finances. If there's anything you're sharing right now, I would stop that immediately so that he knows you're serious.

>> Okay? >> And then I would say, "Put up or shut up." Not that way. This is us telling you, but you know, he needs to go to counseling. And then we're going to find out from a professional whether or not he's willing to do the work.

This is the ultimate. I love the advice you gave your friend. I think you're a good friend, Matt. I said, I think you got a good head on your shoulders.

And the reason I put you in that little exercise is sometimes it's very hard and I appreciate you called George and I today. It's hard for us to give oursel advice, >> but the advice you gave your friend is the advice for yourself. You know what to do, so go do it. And we're cheering you on.

Uh, but this is not just about you anymore.

>> So, >> 100%. >> Take care of you so that you can take care of them. That's the advice today.

So, sorry you're going through this, >> George. This is a reason why uh 7,000th

reason why that you need to be married. So, we've got full commitment. We know what we're getting into. >> Some skin in the game here.

>> [music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it.

But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to.

They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait.

It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

All right, [music] we go to Toronto next where Kate is waiting for us. Kate, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I'm pretty upset right now about the situation that we're going through. >> Okay. >> Uh, basically my husband

borrowed money off the equity line on our house and put it into cryptocurrency.

Um, >> Ouch. >> I found out Yeah, I found out about it, was not happy, and asked him to sell it right away.

How did that go? >> Um, well

uh he he he said that he would and

assured me that it would be, you know, back in the bank account by Monday or Tuesday. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, but he was uh he had the flu at the

time, was not feeling great. I don't know. >> I don't know if that >> dog ate his homework. Okay. Yeah. Got it. >> Yeah. I don't know. But in in any case,

uh he accidentally pressed the sell

short button instead of the sell button apparently. And so um after like four or

five days and it hadn't showed up in the bank account, I asked him about it and

then he admitted to me that um he

accidentally pressed the wrong button and it had all been liquidated and it's

gone. >> And where did it go?

Apparently crypto the the account just kept it.

>> Okay. So >> I don't I don't know. >> Well, selling short means he borrowed an asset he didn't own and he sold it at the current price and then he becomes obligated to buy it back later potentially at a higher price. So this is just gambling in the in the you know market especially in the crypto world.

It was already speculation. So, it's like double gambling at this point on top of the infidelity that he created by doing this behind your back, >> right? So, my question is, is there any way to get that money back or is it just gone for good?

>> Well, he'll be obligated to buy it back.

And so, I don't think that it's gone forever and he needs to do his due diligence to figure out what he needs to do to get the money back. >> Yeah. I I just do not know the answer because of his him selling it short. Do

you got anything on uh you got anything on that? >> I don't know the ins and outs of what platform he's using and the wallet.

>> I'm on the phone with customer service though. My guess is they got somebody and I'm going, "Hey, uh this is what I did." >> But let's just pretend the money's gone.

How much money is gone? >> Cuz it's really added to the helock.

>> So this debt >> it's about two Yeah. $250,000.

Oh, okay. You buried the lead there, Kate. >> Oh, boy. I need a whole can of Tums for

this one. James, this is like the whole can down the hatch. $250,000.

>> Yes.

>> Honestly, if James would have let us, we would be patching in uh this website right now and helping you out. God bless you. You need to be on the phone with them, not us. >> There's there's >> bottom line is >> seven layers to this. >> There's so much here. He's a He's like a degenerate gambler at that point if he puts his entire house and family on the block to try to get rich quick with crypto. Oh >> yeah, it's it's very upsetting.

>> And there's a lot he's not telling you to do.

>> I'll tell you that. >> Yeah. I don't know what >> I'm not saying that he didn't hit a wrong button, >> but I'm saying that there's a few steps you have to take to do something that idiotic [laughter] >> and then say, "Oh, the money's gone." Babe, >> I love Spicy George. I hate to tell you this, Kate, but I'm with George. I think this is You need to go sit with a therapist with me. You owe me this. You just You put $250,000 uh on the line here, and I have so many

questions. And I'm with George. I find it hard to believe he pressed the wrong button. Now, the reason I give it a chance, George, and you know this cuz you're sitting next to the guy who if someone was going to do that, it's me.

>> Yeah. you would be liable to fat finger something, but not at $250,000.

>> I would think I'd slow down long enough to make sure I hit the right button.

>> Yeah. >> But I'm saying there's a chance. I don't want to call him a liar, but boy, my my

BS meter is just singing right now.

>> It's just like I don't know what's worse, if he didn't know what he was doing or if he knew what he was doing.

Both are frightening scenarios.

>> And either way, we got to approach it the same way, right? Whether he hit the

wrong button in a bonehead move uh or he

didn't, we still have to solve the problem that he did this without your knowledge and he didn't sell it when you told him to. There's there's two major gates of trust that he walked through

>> with you. >> And I I'm I'm looking this up to try to help you ask the right questions to him.

>> What do you got? >> So, here's some questions to ask him to confirm today. Are all positions closed?

That's number one. Number two, is there any remaining margin exposure?

>> Number three, is this 250K a realized loss, meaning it actually happens, or is some of it still in flux? And then, what

exactly is owed right now? Who is the lender? What's the interest rate? What are the repayment terms? What are the risks here? >> Can we do this to give you more assurance? Kate, George, can you get that to Christian?

>> Yes, we'll email you. Christian, you can email her this because here's what I actually want Kate to do. I want Kate to get on the phone with the crypto company >> and you he needs to provide you with screenshots of everything he has. And if he can't do that, I don't know that there's a lot of hope for you two cuz a symptom of something much deeper and darker.

>> But let's hope Kate he's telling the truth and uh you can take these questions from George Christian will get them to you and you are getting on the phone now. you are the private investigator and if he's nothing to hide, he's got no problem with us. But we can get on the phone with this company and go, "Hey, my husband says he hit the self short button. Uh, I got some questions." Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Are you guys doing well financially otherwise?

>> Um, yes. Yeah, we are. Um, >> what's your household income? So, um, he brings in about 300,000 a year.

>> Okay. And are you working outside the home? >> Not currently. No, I I used to work as a nurse, but I've been staying home with the kids. >> All right. And how much debt do you guys currently have?

>> Uh, well, that's the other thing um that we don't agree on. We we have a lot of debt. We have uh six different properties. um four of which are rental properties, one is a vacation house, and then we still have a mortgage on our own house. >> Okay. >> And even though he he even though he makes good money, it's just all going to pay these mortgages every month. >> Well, here's the fun homework he gets to do as a way to rebuild some trust. He's

going to start selling off these properties like hotcakes to pay off all of this debt. >> Yeah. >> Now, >> well, that's my other now thing.

>> Is is that is that the best thing to do?

because he he's wanting to like take money out of one of his retirement sick account. >> No, this guy should not be taking money out of anywhere. >> Yeah. >> I don't know who's paying him $300,000.

I wouldn't hire this guy to flip a burger at this point. >> He's like a reckless gambler with you all's money. >> Yeah. He needs to go to Gamblers Anonymous cuz every single thing he's doing is going, "What other shortcut can I take that will put my entire family at risk?" >> It's really true, George.

You know, Kate, here's what's going on. And I think you got to bring this up to him and and certainly with a therapist in the room is what I'm going to suggest here. But George, here's what I'm seeing. This is a guy who's actually making really good money, $300,000.

And this is a guy that at some point has gone out and created a professional uh amount of credibility and he's getting paid well and can become wealthy off of 300,000 >> without taking any of these. >> He wants to get rich quick. I think you nailed it. And I mean this, Kate, and I'm not beating up on him.

>> saying this isn't enough. I need more and I need it now.

>> Six properties is massive exposure, massive risk. So, yes, back to your question that you asked, George, I'm jumping in here to say yes, it's the right move because theoretically, you have some equity in those. And if you don't have any equity, at least we get rid of the risk and lower the uh the

mortgage. Get that out of your life because now we have a $250,000 debt we didn't have a week ago or whatever it is. >> So, yes, it's the right strategy. sell every one of them until this guy gets healed from this appetite for the home

run. There there's an addiction here that scares me. And there's three stooges of wealth building, Kate, and it's fear, greed, [music] and pride. It

sounds like he's got one or all of the above here that's behind all of this.

And he needs to come out clean and let it all out into the light to disinfect this entire situation. Kate, hang on the

line. George is going to give you that awesome research. Christian is going to make sure you have it so that you can do your own research and hope this [music] works out.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

All right, JD's up next in Las Vegas.

JD, how can we help today?

Hey, can you hear me? Okay, >> I can hear you well. What's going on?

>> Oh, not much. Um, so I just I just

started listening to the show uh yesterday and the situation I'm in, I I just feel really stuck and I don't even know where to begin. >> Okay. What What is making you feel stuck?

Um, I guess I just have a lot of

payments that I am responsible for and

um, you know, I owe $31,000.

Uh, it's a 28% loan on a $25,000 truck.

I owe 16,000 on an RV that's worth maybe seven. And I'm willing to sell this sell all this stuff, but >> great. >> You know, I I wouldn't be able to get a personal loan to make up the difference.

>> Okay. Well, here's the good news. Uh, you came to the right place. George is going to walk you through this, but you need to have this mindset as as he walks you through this. You're actually not stuck.

You're not stuck. You're just in a really rotten place that you put yourself in. And you got into it way easier than it's going to be to get out.

But you're not stuck. You got to hold on to that. You got me.

>> I got you. >> All right, George. Prove it to him. How does he get unstuck in his mind? Well, let's look at the math of this and then figure out, you know, the easiest way out because it might be a solvable problem with your current money or we might need to go, you know, sell a bunch of stuff and go get three more jobs. So, tell us about your financial picture.

How much are you making right now?

>> Um, I'm making between 60 and 80,000 a year. I'm taking home about 44, maybe a

little less. It kind of flu fluctuates.

Uh, 4,400 every month.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, I drive truck. Okay. And what is

your rent?

>> Um, so my mom owns the house and the

mortgage payment is 850 and I give her 900 and I'm also responsible for the

water bill. >> Okay. It's a very reasonable rent as far as your income goes.

>> I see on the screen here it says you're behind on the rent. Why is that?

Um, I think just, you know, it's just

one thing after another. You know, I I pay one month's rent and then by the time I pay it, it's, you know, another month is due immediately. And I just feel like I can't get caught up.

>> No. Where's the other $3,600 going that

isn't rent?

um $900 for that truck payment that I

mentioned and then uh you know like >> $500 for insurance which is a little ridiculous but >> All right, so we'll clear 1,400 bucks just getting rid of this truck.

>> Yeah. Yeah, ideally that's what I want to do. I tried to refinance it. um couldn't do that and I I won't be able to sell it cuz I I don't have six grand

to to pay off the difference.

>> You don't right now, but you could. And I think that's the move. Was this a trade in or did you find the private party value?

>> Um uh the private party value is is about 25,000. >> Okay. And you're saying what do you owe on it that you owe like 31? You said

>> 31 and change. Yeah. Okay. And then what was the other debt?

>> Um the RV that I owe 16,000 and change.

>> And what's that worth?

>> Uh maybe seven or 8,000. And then I have $3,500 in credit card debt.

>> But to George's question, I mean, you're also spending freely outside of some of these big payments, too, aren't you?

>> Um, yes and no. I mean, I prioritize,

you know, just keeping the the house payment made, the bills. We're behind on bills, so, you know, I I pay what I can on the bills and then and then they're due again. But, yeah, I I feel like I could settle down a little bit on on my finances. >> Do you save any money? When was the last time in a month you save something?

>> Uh, hasn't hasn't happened in >> And are you open road? Like, what's your truck driving schedule?

Um, I'm home every day. I start in the morning and I get off uh in the mid

afternoon. >> Okay. And Oh, okay. And mom owns the house and you're just paying her rent.

>> Uh, she she uh has a mortgage on the house and the mortgage payment is 850 and I'm just covering that.

>> Okay. And she's not cover and she's not able to work. She's not because you said we are behind on the bills. I thought I heard >> uh me and my fiance. Oh, so you and your

fiance are living with your mom?

>> No, no, she my mom lives somewhere else.

My mom just inherited the house. Um,

>> but is the fiance living in the same house? >> No. >> Okay. So, you live in this house by yourself?

>> Oh, yeah. Just with my fiance.

>> I just asked you if you live with your fiance and you said no.

>> Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking if I live with my mother. I apologize. No, I did, but we cleared that one. Now we're on this. So, what does the fiance do for a living?

>> Um, she's a CNA. She uh she brings in

about 2,000 a month. Um,

>> is she part time? >> She helps.

Um, it's it's technically full-time.

It's three days a week. Um, three on, four off. >> Can she work more?

>> Um, >> well, it sounds like she's not paying rent at all. Why isn't she I mean is she paying any of the housing costs if she's living there?

>> Uh when I need help with uh >> You do need help. This is $900.

>> Okay. All right. >> What she can. Uh she has a car payment herself and she's also working on paying off uh med medical bills.

>> Okay. All right. So, we've we've done enough diagnosis here. JD, you have never even sniffed a budget. And even if you sniffed a budget, I don't know that you have the behavioral discipline at this stage to actually honor the budget. So you call it asking for help, right?

>> Yes. >> What do I do, Ken and George? Right.

>> That's correct. >> All right. Here's what you do. You have got to start being disciplined. You're

just spending money like a billionaire and and you don't have anything. And so you actually can get out of this. All right, George, you've heard all the facts. All right, give him give him the tactical. What does he need to do today?

So the baby steps are in this order.

Baby step $1,000 starter emergency fund.

Do you have $1,000 to your name right now across your bank account?

>> Uh, no, sir. >> Okay, that is your first goal, which means the next paycheck that comes in, you are putting that aside and you're going to cover your four walls. And if you that's all you can cover, that's okay. because so far we're behind on the rent, but we're trying to make the debt payments. We've got to cover our four walls first. Now, this is to mom. So, now mom is mom paying the mortgage even though you're not paying her.

>> Um >> cuz you said you're behind on rent, but that's really mom's mortgage.

>> Well, no, she's not paying it. It's It's just not getting paid when I don't send her money. >> The mortgage is not getting paid at all.

>> Yeah. >> So, you could get foreclosed on

Um, we haven't gotten to that point yet.

We're We're >> That's where it's headed. I mean, that's what happens when you stop paying your mortgage. Your your fiance needs to start paying 450.

We're splitting this cuz we're not married, but she needs to be working 40 hours a week. >> If she's living there, she's paying half the rent until you learn how to do it on

your own.

>> Okay? >> And so, we need to come up with six grand after that to clear this truck.

So, you get a,000 bucks in the bank and then you're going to keep living on rice and beans. You're not doing jack squat when you're not working and you're going to be working a lot. Can you do overtime?

>> Um, I don't really have that option.

>> No. No. Three other jobs then.

>> You get off in the afternoon. You already let me know that. So, now you're not getting off of the truck situation.

You're moving into the next job. You need money. You need to work really hard. So, this is painful for you. Do

you need a car right now to get from A to B or or can you just drive the truck?

Uh >> yeah, I have to daily commute to work.

>> Can you >> Can the girlfriend the fiance not take you? She's got plenty of time.

>> No, she works uh 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.

I worked about uh 4:00 a.m. to to about

400 p.m.

>> Okay. Well, you're going to have to figure out a transportation sit situation out cuz if you can clear this truck, you can breathe again. >> Yeah, you're in bicycle territory. So that $6,000 is your focus after this,000

bucks is saved for your small emergency fund. But that's your key to getting out of this. And so far it's just well can't do that cuz of this underwater on this.

You're going to need to get more money and spend less. And if I looked at your bank statement, I could probably find 48 ways to do it. So hang on the line.

We're going to gift you every dollar our budgeting app. It's going to be a coach in your pocket like us, but less yelling and more recommendations for how to find that margin. I'm rooting for you, man.

We we love you. That's why we are yelling. It's out of love. I'm not yelling.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

All right. One of the best things that you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro uh in your corner

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Uh remember all these um CPAs and

enrolled agents have been vetted by the Ramsey team, but you need to sit with them and make sure you feel good that you understand everything that they want you to do. All right, let's go to John in Pittsburgh. John, how can we help?

>> Gentlemen, how are you today?

>> Doing great. What's going on with you?

>> Good. I'm I'm loving the fact that Ken called you Spicy George, first off. So, >> thank you. I appreciate it. And and a word of warning to you, John. He's He's a little frisky today. I >> popped up on Captain. >> He walked in before the show started. I knew he was a man on a mission. So careful with George today.

>> I will have it no other way. Okay, great. >> Um so to get to my question, uh I'm in the process of selling my house. Uh and I'll be getting roughly 130 $135,000

from that and just want to see if I'm if I'm planning it right. Um this will put me into baby step seven. Um, and my girlfriend and I, uh, we have plans to get married, uh, potentially looking at rings and, um, trying to see what the

best option would be with that money.

So, >> wow. >> My plan is, um, and and just looking for some feedback. Thank you. Feedback on you, uh, from you guys. Uh, [clears throat] I'm looking to have a 100,000 of that, maybe in a high yield savings account, maybe investing. That's where I'm I'm asking feedback from you. Uh we're looking to potentially once we're married and um buying a house in it no

less than four years when she can retire and and um we'll end up buying something again once we're married. So I'm thinking of putting 100 in it high yield savings or something else you may recommend for that four to five years.

Um and then the rest just a couple about

five grand in emergency fund some money into a ring and maybe a vacation like a Ramsey cruise or something. Uh, and then another 20 for a just in case car fund.

Um, I have a 2010 Toyota Highlander with almost 200,000 miles and uh, loving it.

Just want to see how far it goes, but want to also be prepared. So, >> okay. >> Any suggestions you might have on on what to do, what not to do, right track, etc. >> Yeah. Well, I'm curious. Uh, how old are you two? Cuz you're talking about her retiring.

>> Um, in her job, she can retire at 50.

She's 46 and I'm 49.

>> Okay. Is her plan to retire at 50 and not work anymore?

>> Not work at [clears throat] that job. Uh and then that job will afford us the opportunity to be able to move to a different state, and that's our goal.

>> Does she have a pension or something with some guaranteed income?

>> Yeah. She's also going to do some work, but it'll most likely be in a different state. Yeah. >> And you're not getting married. When are you getting married? You're not until she retires or I couldn't understand that. >> No, that that would be prior to that. Uh we've we've started conversations about that. We looked at rings a couple weeks ago. Um so that would happen most

likely, I'm sure. I'm sure prior to all.

>> And then just one followup for me. Uh you said put 5,000 in an emergency fund, but you said that this is going to put you uh in baby step seven. So presumably

you have a full emergency fund in baby step three. Correct.

>> Yes. I have 15,000. I'd like to bump it up to 20. >> Okay.

So I see >> I see what you're doing there. Okay. So 20 total. So baby step seven would be a paid for house.

So right now you would kind of be going back to this kind of four, five, six land until we get the house paid off. So that would be your next goal is to kind of earmark as much of this as you can for that future down payment. Now if it's going to be guaranteed, hey, this is five plus years out, you could invest the money in, you know, index funds in a brokerage account.

That's a possibility. We don't know. You know, it's kind of in that middle zone where it's maybe too long to rent, but would we recoup the money if we buy something? >> Would you recoup the money if you bought something and sold it and then bought another? >> Well, because remember, they're going to move to another state. >> Yeah. Well, if you're going to have the house for at least a few years, it could be a good buy, but it may just be worth renting for the peace of mind knowing this is very temporary.

>> Yeah. And that's that's where we are. We're not really sure since it is.

>> Is that where you're going? You just sold your house >> or you will. Are you going to live with her in her apartment or her house or that she's renting? What? >> Yeah, she she owns a house as well. I'm living here now. >> Um, and then she may or may not sell her

house here shortly. Um, depending how it goes. And that's where we're we're thinking, well, would we go in and buy a house? Obviously, we're not going to do it under both names uh unless or until we're married. Uh, but would do we buy another house? >> I mean, I would just live with her once you guys are married. That's the easier solution.

>> Yeah. >> Instead of just renting. At least you're building some equity while you two are married and then you can sell it once you're ready to retire and move elsewhere. So, yeah, I like the idea of parking in a high yield savings account because there's a lot of unknowns right now and we might need this money sooner and earmark that for your house down payment.

If you don't have a good one, Fairwinds is an awesome uh partner of ours and they've got a great high yield savings product. You can jump on fairwinds.org/ramsey to get their smart bundle that includes that. I like a 20,000 emergency fund. I like having this car fund set aside knowing you're going to do this and you're going to pay cash.

So, let's not make it a surprise when it happens.

You don't have to go crazy. What are you thinking about spending on a ring? >> I knew you were going to get nosy about this. >> Wow. People, I just America wants to know. It's his business. It's his money.

>> Do I tell America how much I'm spending on a ring? I mean, >> I think it's a fair question. You've told us pretty much everything. >> You've told us everything else. I mean, go ahead. What are you thinking?

>> Um, I'm thinking in the $5,000 range somewhere, >> right? Oh, George is so happy.

>> I know. So, it could could be a little more, could be a little less. >> What does that get you? What does that get you these days? What does 5,000 get you? A wife, if she says yes.

>> Hopefully something better than from the rare island of Zirconia. That's for sure. >> I don't think you know. I I don't think you actually know. You don't know, do you? >> I have a little bit of an idea. I have a friend who's a diamond wholesaler, but >> Oh, he's going to get a sick deal. >> Dave also says Yeah, Dave also says we can always upgrade. Uh, we've already talked the size of what we're looking at. Um, so this is serious.

>> Okay. Well, this is great news because the You're saying that the You have a good idea that the 5,000 is going to make her happy.

>> It will. >> Ah, well, there you go.

>> All right. Then I I like your plan, John. I think you're thinking through this wisely. There's just a lot of variables right now. And so that's my hesitation to put this in the market.

Um, not knowing what's going to happen.

I mean, you've seen the headlines just this week and everyone's getting spooked and they're selling off and now it's back up to record highs and so I think because of that your your heart rate will stay smooth if you just put it in a high yield savings account for now. You'll get, you know, over 3% on your 100 grand, which isn't bad.

>> Uh, great unintentional segue, George.

>> Tell me more. >> Well, we were just talking off air about the crypto >> uh roller coaster. I feel like we need a little uh update. You have been very public. Uh we as a show have been public about crypto and the risks and we've seen it go down tremendously over the last 72 hours. Uh looks like it may be

stabilizing a little bit today, but who knows? What say you, George? This is your this is your chance to crow a little bit. >> Well, I'm not here to say the I told you so cuz you know >> Well, that that's not exciting.

I think America would like to hear that. >> I'm not going to do it even though I did tell you so. But here's the thing you got to understand. Bitcoin went over $100,000 and everyone's going, "See, you Ramsay guys, you missed out.

You told people not to." >> People were reaching out to me on social g saying, "Yeah, you Ken Coleman and Dave Ramsey, you guys don't have a clue." >> Yeah.

who knows where it's going to go from here. Nobody knows. All I know is this.

The stock market, the S&P 500, is 500

actual companies producing real products and services that have real revenue and their shareholders that are trying to increase the value. That's what we're all rooting for. And Bitcoin has no true

utility. It's not really based on anything except hype and us saying this is the future, so we should all put our money there. And then you get a bunch of bros who get spooked and they start selling it off like hotcakes, tanking the value. And this is the problem with speculation. you know, you you you place the bet and it's the roulette table. And so, it's the reason I don't own any Bitcoin because I'm already an anxious guy. Don't need to add to it anymore.

>> I'm good with the S&P 500 average 10% return over the long haul. It's I do the get-rich slow plan. >> So, what you're telling me is this was not shocking. These were not shocking headlines when we saw crypto on fire.

>> No, I kind of knew eventually this was going to happen and maybe I it's going to go back up and be a million dollars one day. I don't know the future. All I know is I can control what I can control and that's investing slowly, wisely.

Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but those who gather little by little will increase it. That's what Proverbs says.

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[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman joined by George Camel. We're here to help you out. You got money questions, you got professional money making questions, those work questions, we're here to help on those as well.8825-5225

is the number.8255225.

All right. Uh boy, this here we go. Am I hooked on phonics? I always enjoy these.

Alita, I believe, is who we're going to in Fagetville, Arkansas. Tell me I'm right, Alita, please.

>> You are right. Thank you, Mr. Coleman.

Mr. Campbell, thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. But no more mister. We It makes us feel old. It's >> We We won't allow it.

>> Yeah, Ken's already old, so he just need a reminder. >> Well, old compared to you, >> compared to most people. >> That's right. All right, Alita, how can we help?

>> So, I've had trouble finding a job in the last 10 years. Uh, Ken, I've been looking into your uh work and I started your book, The Proximity Principle. Um, and I realized I've been playing the slot machine a lot, but I have a lot of skills in uh events. And then in 2018, I

was certified as a butler, uh, hoping

that would make me specialize to get a job and I just feel like I am running on the wheel to nowhere. >> What are you doing right now for a living? So I am a Canadian who is currently in the states. So um I have talked to so many different places that place butlers and a lot of them in the states at least are saying I need your green card so we can help you with the immigration side and >> so you don't you don't have your green card.

>> I don't um and even in Canada

>> that's a they just don't pay as well and the cost of living is ridiculous. So I'm like, well, let's do the states and it's a better opportunity.

>> Okay. So even though you uh have got the

certification as a butler and that's what you really want to do to be a butler.

>> Yes. >> Or personal assistant, executive assistant up in that field.

>> Okay. Well, those are two different things. And I I must tell you, uh did you ever watch um Downtown Abbey?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Love the butler.

>> All right. So when you say butler, that's what I'm thinking. I want to make sure I'm I'm on the same wavelength. Is that what you're talking about?

>> Correct. >> So very nowaday >> Go ahead.

>> Butlers nowadays tend to do multiple things. So they could be your personal assistant and also take care of things around the house or organize the staff.

>> Okay. Okay. And the reason I'm asking that is because that tells me there's a wide range of people. There are certain people that would pay for a personal assistant but would not pay for a butler. Correct.

>> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. And you're a comedian, which is fascinating to me. So, I got to do some some real digging here. How much are you making on average uh per month

as a comedian? A working comedian.

>> I'm actually not a comedian. I'm a Canadian. >> Oh, good grief. >> I heard comedian, too.

Wow. I'd love to hear some material. Okay. You're comedian.

>> I'm so glad cuz I thought here come the old man jokes from George, but you heard the same thing. >> Yeah. I thought it was like you're trying to be a comedian, but you're looking for a legit, you know, buckler job right now. Got it.

All right. Back to the Okay. So, one of my wife's dear friends, one of her closest friends, uh, is a Canadian as well, and she's quite funny, just in case anybody wants to know, but she's a Canadian, and, uh, she's had so many issues with work visas.

>> Correct. Now, if you get in the right circles, they have the money that sometimes they can move that process along. So, I was hoping that might be the case. >> Okay. But what can you do given the fact that you do not have your green card?

>> So, I'm working to finish off. I have my associates degree. I was able to take a year off to work here in the States. So that's why I'm in Arkansas. And then this fall I go back to finish off the bachelor. >> Right. But what have you been doing for a living? What are you doing now for pay?

>> So I am an office assistant. Um a well I

work in a hanger uh for a company that

fixes airplanes and helicopters.

>> And there's no issue with I I guess you're here on a work visa, >> correct? Yeah, you can do a work visa.

and I specialized in business is what I figured I would take to encompass my

event. I love doing events and banquetss and then the butler. So, I decided to go for a business major. >> Okay. All right. So, a lot going on here. So, my advice is somewhat limited

if if there are limited things that we can do. >> So, it looks like you can do what you're doing now. So, A1 is to get the green card. That's the priority while we're doing these other jobs. And it sounds like you've done this, but you're not a typical person who calls me and says, "Ken, I'm having a hard time getting a job. [laughter] >> You you you have a limited scope." But the question is, could you be Go ahead.

>> Yeah. The question for you is because you say it's not what you know, it's who you know using those people.

>> 100%. But that's assuming you have you have the legal ability to work too. And so there's a different issue. Here's a prerequisite, which is >> they can't hire you.

And I truly don't think any even a high net worth household is going to go, you know what, we just like you so much. We're going to go through all of this hassle, pay extra, hope that months and months of immigration lawyers can solve this. I just don't think they're they're going to deal with that. I agree.

>> They're looking to have to deal with less things. That's why they're hiring you. >> Right. >> So, >> and and it is a challenge for sure.

we're into month 19 and he hasn't even started. Right. >> The last guy, he's like, "Let's do it." 6 months later, he's like, "Right, >> uh, I can't do it." >> Okay. You just gave anecdotal evidence to George's opinion.

>> So, George is right. So, here's the deal. The question is, you love producing live events. The idea of working on live events. You mentioned that multiple times. Feels like the executive assistant stuff is kind of down the list a little bit, but you're a person who loves tasks. You like ideiation, making the idea a reality.

Sound right? Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's the deal. The question is, does the green card prohibit you from doing that type of work? For instance, Ramsay Solutions has, I don't know, five, six, seven event producers that are full-time employees here, right? Um, you know, could you be an executive assistant without a green card? >> You know, I've I've told you many times Ble is a company that has sponsored Ramsey live events, Entree Leadership.

They're based out of Atlanta, but they're hiring people like you all around the country as virtual executive assistants. you know, uh, who are the,

you know, if you were, if I'm sitting with you today in Arkansas, I'm going,

>> tell me the top five event companies or

companies that are putting on some type of corporate event or civic events or who's doing what you want to do in your area >> and that's where we start. Have you made that list?

>> Um, I I've written down a few of them like some of them are hotels. Um, I did put my name into the White House. haven't been called up yet. So, we're waiting on that one.

>> No, but that's the but that's the lottery that you mentioned. That's exactly what you heard me write about in proximity. I'm saying no. Who are the top five event producers?

What venues have the most amount of events in Fateville, Arkansas? That's where we start. And then we ask the next question. Who do I know that works at one of those five places?

This is like a little Excel spreadsheet or you can do it on a piece of paper if you're old school like me, right? So, we start writing it out. We go, "Oh, I know Lynn who works over there." So, I call Lynn up.

First of all, what's going on over there? What positions do they have? So, we get it direct from Lynn. We're not going through a website and filling out a application that might as well be spitting in the wind riding down in a convertible on the interstate. It's just nothing's happening. Okay? So, let's just methodically go through what I write about in proximity principle. This is not >> difficult to do. actually just got to

show up. >> Okay. [music] >> And the old match game when you played when you were a kid, we're just going to keep this exercise up. And if it's nothing in Fateville, we start looking outside of Fagatville. Uh the other thing you might want to do is let's get serious about maybe maybe a relationship, George. That's how you get that great card. >> That's one way to do it. One way.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind.

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>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Rachel in New York City. Rachel, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken and George. Um, thank you for having me on. Uh, my husband and I, we've been talking about having a second child. I want to know how can we balance financial readiness, mental health, and lifestyle priorities when deciding to have another baby.

>> Okay, that's a very interesting list.

Did I hear run through those again because I heard commas between all of those. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Okay, so what was the first one? Was it financial readiness?

>> Financial readiness. >> Mental health. >> Uh mental health. And the third is lifestyle priorities.

And that's all in context of how to balance those things when deciding to have another child.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. [laughter] So, >> okay. Well, you have a you have a child now, so you know, a lot of that is out the window. [laughter] >> Well, well, the mental health is not um

the financial readiness.

>> I mean, George is not sure you could have mental health. >> The financial readiness is the one that I can help you control. Your lifestyle.

I don't have a life. I go home and I'm in dad mode until, you know, I go to bed. And so that's my question mark is what are your lifestyle priorities?

>> Sure. Um so yes, so we had our first child in 2022. She'll be turning two this May. Um I unfortunately did suffer from terrible postpartum depression and I'm only just recently, you know, starting to feel like myself again.

>> Oh yeah, it can take a long long time.

That's tough. >> Yeah. Um in terms of finances, end of 2025, my husband and I, we made $225,000

gross. Um, our average take-home pay is

about 10,000 a month. With just one child, we are living comfortably. Um, at the end of the month, we're usually left over with a little over $600 in excess that we're currently putting towards retirement in addition to what we're already contributing. Um, part of me is nervous to go through postpartum again, but I'm I know I'm just going to miss the financial flexibility that we currently have. [clears throat] >> Well, where you said you're investing.

How much are you currently investing as a percentage of your income?

>> I I do think it's a little more than the 15% that you guys um recommend. My

husband, he gets about $400 or $500 taken out of his paycheck automatically and a 457. Okay. And that's dependent um

on his income because he does he has overtime. >> So his uh his uh income fluctuates.

>> And do you guys have any debt?

>> No, we're debtree. Okay, >> that's fantastic. >> And you've got savings.

>> We got savings. Yes. >> So, financial readiness is there.

>> It's there. That's why I was going to dig in. >> So, so I I my concern about the

financial readiness is when we have to

um expand, let's say, our current living situation. So, we live in a two-bedroom right now in New York City. Um, if of

course if we have a second and the second the same gender as our first, I don't mind staying in the two-bedroom, but eventually when we have to upgrade to a three, that's where I'm a little concerned. We're lucky that our rent is currently pretty low. >> What is it? I'm curious. In New York City, >> uh, 1,600 for >> Wow. Why the um I have two boys and a girl. So why the why the need if it's a

different sex to have different rooms?

They're still babies for a while.

They're just >> I mean in the beginning, yes, I agree.

They could share a room, but eventually when we need to move out. Um >> yeah, but how many how many years? It could be three years from now, >> right? >> See, that's why I'm asking you that like what's your And I'm not I'm not trying to talk you out of your decision. I'm just saying how many years before you think you would need to have them in separate rooms?

>> No. Um the three-year mark would probably be where I'm thinking.

>> Great. So again, cross that bridge when we get there. >> Yeah. And then what financial gains are you going to make over that time?

>> Okay. >> My question is more on the health side of things >> and I just don't know enough. So is it

is it uh is it how much of it is

chemical? In other words, I just don't know enough. So it's it's may sound silly, but the postpartum, how much of that is chemical in the body? Uh versus

um is it all mental and emotional and did you get the tools, you know, to recover to where you feel like does your do you have a a health a mental health professional who's guiding you through this and giving you advice on this? that that's something I would want to know.

>> Yeah. So, I actually didn't get um any

sort of uh help when I was going through

um postpartum depression.

>> Yeah. >> I was kind of um just doing everything um on my own. >> So, we'll prioritize that this time, right? Now that you know, you're going to go, we're going to do all the things we can do and we're going to shift our money towards making sure that we have the help that you need.

>> Yeah. >> That would be the conversation. Rachel, I'm I'm hearing the emotion in you.

>> You worked. You struggled >> and you just now came up for air recently, right?

>> I did. >> Oh, listen. Can I just tell you, I think

before I would decide to to have another child, I would I would go talk to a mental health professional and your doctor and go, "Hey, what are the chances that with baby number two that I have a similar experience?" I just don't know the answer. I think you need to know the answer. The second thing I would ask is, is it something we can treat with medicine? How much of this is chemical where where medicine can deal with that?

If if I were your brother, I I would say, "Hey, Rachel, do this before you guys make the decision to start trying again." Okay? >> Cuz you don't need to do this alone.

So you obviously your heart wants a baby, but you really sitting here right now, and by the way, I don't blame you.

>> You have real questions about whether or not you could do it again. Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Okay then. So I think George has done a great job of saying financially you guys are fine, but I think the real crux of this question is, hey, you are amazing.

You're superwoman that you did this without medical help, right?

>> Yeah. Um I I don't know how I did it.

>> I don't know either.

>> I don't know either because I can't even begin to understand what it what it does and and there's millions of women that are listening to this right now watching. >> They're nodding their head going, "I see you, girl." >> They see you. They've been through it. We We have no clue. But I do know this.

It's not just for you, but you are first and foremost that you take care of yourself because you know how that's affecting your baby, how it's affecting your husband and and so it's about you first, but then it's also about them.

So, in making a decision like this, you got to go in fully equipped this time.

>> And my hope is that it didn't h it doesn't happen at all. But I just don't know what the what the medical percentages are. And I think you need to know, don't you?

>> Yes. as as you talk to us today, you're not fully equipped.

>> So, um >> so you can't make a decision on that.

Now, George, you know, he's like, "Hey, financially you guys are fine." But the rest of this is really predicated on you

and your past experience and what professionals can do to help you.

>> Okay. >> So, hey, you got some appointments to make, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> You know what? I think there's some there's some community groups probably in New York of women that are still struggling with it now or have gone through it and you just came out of it. How about getting involved in one of those?

>> Sounds like an idea. Yeah. >> Come on. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> I imagine I mean just raising a baby in New York is already tough enough. Sure.

>> And so you guys are doing a great job.

You have an amazing income. You've stayed out of debt. You've got low rent which means you have flexibility in your expenses. You talked about lifestyle priorities.

There's, you know, 6, seven, 8 grand here that we can play with. And I, you know, do what you need to do. Take care of yourself. But I think there's wiggle room here as well.

And I don't think you're going to go, we're so tight every single month. >> Rachel, I want to hear what George just said. George, you're right. You've got money to spend on a therapist or a doctor to help figure this out.

>> All right. You're amazing.

>> Thank you guys. >> You're amazing. But no more. No more white knuckling through this. All right.

>> Okay. >> All right, Rachel. That's really sweet.

What a sweet sweet lady.

>> This is real, Ken. That's that's real talk. And you know, my my wife can attest. She'd be amening right now if she was listening to that call. And you got to take care of your health first. And that's why doing the baby steps, having financial peace, allows you the flexibility to focus on your own health.

>> Yeah. >> It's hard to do that when you got payments [music] to make. You can't Rachel, we're 300,000 in debt. She's got margin to go take care of herself, which is going to allow them to expand their family and be healthy doing it. Folks, she can be more pres financial peace actually looks like

[music]

[music]

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[music]

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Today's question comes from Brody in Washington DC. While I would like to pay off my student loans, I'm not sure it makes the most sense financially. They are currently at 2.6% interest, and even a monkey can make more by investing rather than paying this off. I owe almost $100,000 on my medical degree debt. I make more than enough to pay it off, but I think it may not be wise to use my money to pay this off with such a low rate.

This is classic. Well, you know what a monkey can't do? go $100,000 into student loan debt. So there's we can't be comparing ourselves to monkeys. >> Yeah. Like take it easy on the monkeys.

>> All monkeys are debtree. Yeah. We'll start there. To your question, I get it.

On paper, anything with a low interest rate, you could make the case, well, I could make more by doing XYZ with it.

But you're not thinking about a few things. Number one is risk. We don't

know that you will stay employed and have the money to pay this off. We also know that student loans are largely not even bankruptible thanks to student loan lobbyists keeping it that way. And the other thing you got to think about is there's still a payment to be made. This is still looming in your life as long as it's there.

It's living rentree in your head. You emailed in to get the question answered. And so the truth is you took this debt out saying I will pay this back. And you can drag it out as long as you want.

Truthfully, you can do that and you'll probably still live to tell the tale. But I think you will live a more peaceful life and you will build more wealth if you just went ahead and knocked it out. And not just slowly. I'm talking aggressively cuz you you hopefully are, you know, a doctor or in residency.

I don't know where you're at in the journey, but you said you have more than enough to pay it off. So pay it off cuz on a balance sheet, you don't actually have that money, right? If you have 200,000 in debt and you have 100,000 in savings, you're still in the negative. Yeah.

>> Love it. My take. I love it. I'm not going to add anything to it. That was so airtight. Uh Gregory's up in Lincoln, Nebraska. Gregory, how can we help today?

>> Uh yes. So, I'm currently on baby step two and about to start side gig work. My

question is to should I be insured with

my side gig?

>> Tell us about the side gig.

>> So, I have multiple trade skills. I work in the trades. Currently, I'm a diesel technician. like my job and everything,

but my other skill sets lie in like welding and stuff. So, I was thinking about starting a mobile welding

um side gig and in my area heavy a so I

know a lot of farmers that could use repairs and everything.

>> Yeah, I would definitely get insurance.

General liability insurance for sure.

>> Okay. General liability. Okay. Yeah.

>> I mean, cuz you're This is a high-risisk gig.

>> Okay. >> A spark could cause a fire after you leave, right? >> That's that's could be a problem.

Property's damaged, >> especially if you're mobile. You're on other people's property.

>> Okay. >> And someone could just say, "Hey, I'm suing this guy cuz he ruined my driveway while he was welding." And so, you definitely need uh the general liability insurance and maybe professional liability as well.

>> Okay. Is that even with like without like do I need to have a business like license and everything for >> I would be, you know, licensed and bonded. I would go full I mean if you're going to be doing this, you got to do it right.

>> Okay. Um like I don't want this to be

like my main job.

>> That's okay. It doesn't have to be.

>> But I would not tie all this to your personal life. I would have, you know, set up whatever you need to. I don't know what it is for your situation and your state. I would look into that of what the proper setup is. If it's an LLC, have a business checking account.

Um, it'd be wise to do that as you get this set up so that the business um you're you're at least you have more protections in place if this is through a legitimate business with legitimate insurance.

>> Okay, cool. >> I wouldn't do it I wouldn't skip it to save money and I don't think it's going to be that expensive either. So, I wouldn't worry about that. >> Yeah. What do you >> Yeah. I was just wondering Go ahead. >> Go ahead. No, no, you go ahead.

>> Uh, so I was just wondering just because like I don't know, my wife was wanting me to maybe like start a business, but then I'm like, well, it's a side gig. I wouldn't like start a landscaping business if I'm going like mowing yards.

So, I was just I don't know.

>> Why does your wife want you to start a business?

>> No, it's not necessarily start a business, but if I'm kind of like all in doing it, >> like I have a good job with plenty of room for advancements. It's just like instead of like one little side gig doing whatever, I can potentially make more. >> So, what's the why behind all of this?

>> Uh, getting out of debt.

>> Okay, great. Now, we have a why. We have a reason to go do this. That's good. And then the it becomes the how now. And the how is all right, I got to set up the LLC. I'm going to start that. You don't need to go crazy, but you just need a few protections in place so that this doesn't reach into your personal life.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. This is not a lot of money we're talking about. It's a little bit of time, but again, it's more protection so that you can with peace of mind go do the welding, you know?

>> Okay. >> So, it doesn't have to be this full-blown I have to commit to, you know, a P&L statement. No, keep it simple and just go, you know, I'm going to see if I can get five to 10 welding jobs in a month or whatever it is you're trying to do. >> That's the idea. But this is this is all about just making sure that if something were to happen that you're protected.

>> Okay. Yeah, appreciate it. And I love the, by the way, love the spunk. I love this. More people should be doing this.

Uh that you're willing to go out and do this. In fact, real quick before we let you go, how much debt do you guys have?

What's the total?

>> Uh including the house, it's a little over 101,000.

>> Take the mortgage out. How much do you have? >> Uh 17 a little over 17,000.

>> What do you anticipate making as a welder on the side?

Um, I'm just trying to do like another 2,000 a month.

>> Fantastic. >> On top of >> what I Right now I'm right now I'm between like harvest and like planting.

So there's no real general overtime and I also don't want to do this forever. So that way >> So if you made an additional 2,000 a month welding, how much are you guys out of your current income and budget putting towards debt? That's 17,000.

um current well with the minimum payments we're at 780

um a month with all those payments and then I just like we just started like a budget and plan so um cut a bunch of

subscriptions and everything and so we're currently amping that up right now and so we're looking for excess money and stuff like that. >> Yeah. So, the reason I was walking you through this is, you know, what's the total amount of money now that you guys are in a budget out of your current income that we can put extra? So, is it $500 a month extra we can put on the $17,000 of debt using the debt snowball?

And George, I mean, making an extra two grand. >> Yeah. If you just use side hustle money, you'd be done in about 8 months. But if you can use your your personal income as well and create margin there, let's make it a kind of an audacious goal to go, could we be done in four or five months >> with our current income plus the side hustle money that will really fuel the the fire here, no pun intended, >> uh as you begin this mobile welding business.

>> And while we're cheering you on and pumping you up and, you know, saying, "Hey, do this, do this," I'd keep the side hustle going and knock out baby step three. >> Get that 3 to 6 months expenses. Let's go.

you get to baby step four, George. And mentally, if he's gazelle with this this side hustle, >> explain what happens to him mentally, emotionally when he gets baby step two and three done in a short order. Think about that. Then you have all the margin you were throwing at those things now becomes your money to build wealth, to

go on vacation, to upgrade the car, to create a maintenance and repair fund.

And who knows, maybe the welding business you go, I could do this full-time. I'm enjoying it. I can be my own boss. I'm good at this.

I could scale this thing. And you'll have that kind of flexibility once you're debtree with the emergency fund. All right, let's have that have some fun with that one, George. All right, let's say he does everything you just described.

He realizes, wait a second, I think I can make somewhere. I'm going to keep an easy round number 50,000 again next year, but I hire a couple buddies, blah blah blah blah. I pay them. Where's that extra 50?

Well, now it's all right. I'm investing 15%. I'm going to knock out the mortgage, which you guys don't have a huge mortgage. We can knock that out in a few years. And now we're going, we can amp up. We can max out our retirement accounts, invest beyond that, take trips we never dreamed of, be more generous.

And so your life just opens up to a whole new realm of possibilities by following these steps. Gregory, we just looked into your future and George says you're rich. The crystal ball says he's going to be okay.

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>> Sure. What's going on today?

So, my girlfriend and I were um we own a

home and we're pretty much breaking up and I want to know what's the most [clears throat] fair way to split the net amount from the sale of the home.

>> Are you both on the uh title?

>> Yes. >> What about the mortgage?

>> Yes. >> All right. What are you going to sell it for?

>> Um we're going to sell it for about 625.

um we owe about 510 on it and after

closing cost and everything, we're thinking we can walk away with about 95,000. >> All right. And let's talk about who put in what. So, who paid the down payment

>> and how much? >> So, we bought the home almost 3 years ago. Uh the down payment was 40,000.

Down payment closing cost was 40,000. I put in 35. She put in five.

>> Okay. Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy.

>> Throughout throughout the time too um

that we've lived here, we've done renovations and I've uh we do keep our finances separate. Um but uh throughout

the the time that we've owned the home in the last couple years, I've put in about 35 36,000. So >> on top of your 35 >> on top of my 35. Yeah.

>> And I know the answer, but we have to ask how much has she put into renovations?

No, nothing. >> Oh boy. >> Okay. So, you're obviously getting the money that you put into it back.

>> She'll get the money she put into it back and then you guys could split the rest.

>> Well, on paper, George. Yes.

>> On paper. [laughter] >> So, legally, I mean, legally, she we own it 50/50, right? And she gives me a hard time, um, then I'm not even going to argue it. I'm just going to say, you know what, forget it. It is what it is.

50/50. Um, but I just want to make sure

that I'm not crazy because what I think it's fair, and that's the key word, it's that I recoup my money.

>> She recoups her money, which is 5,000.

>> And um and whatever that difference is, we go down 50/50 on that.

>> That's what I just said, right?

>> Oh, sorry. I misunderstood.

>> Yeah. So, I got I I did quick math probably wrong, but I got 70,000 coming back to you, right?

>> Correct. >> 5,000 to her. And so if we walk away with 90, we got 15 to split.

>> Mhm. >> And so did I pick up you saying if she

uh gives me a hard time? So you've not talked to her about what we're going to do with the proceeds?

>> We have not. No.

>> Do you think it's going to be a shock to her or where is she at? Where do you think she's at mentally on this?

>> I think from a mental standpoint, um

she's logical, too. And I and I think deep down she knows that's that's the first thing to do. But I think from an emotional standpoint, she'll give me a fight over that. And quite honestly, I'm

>> Well, here we go. >> Here's the I got to dig. I can't help myself. I'm like a moth to a flame. Uh, who broke up with who?

>> I'm breaking up with her. >> Yeah, that's problematic.

I still think the numbers are right, but I'm just trying to keep it real. The audience in the lobby's with me. It's going to be a knockout drag down fight on the way out. >> Were you a gentleman about it?

>> Yes. Uh we've gone a couple therapy.

>> Um we've done quite honestly this has

been ongoing for like 3 months or so. Um

where I've I've been ready honestly I've

been ready to walk away for 3 months but I've also been trying to work it out too. >> Okay. >> Um >> are we officially done with therapy? The breakup is done. This is all finalized.

Yes.

Uh, it will be pretty soon.

>> What What does the written agreement say if there is one? >> Hold on. Do you How do you just move on so quickly? >> Well, clearly it's over.

>> It's not. He hasn't done it yet. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Correct. >> Is she listening to this call? I hope not. >> She's about to find out the hard way.

>> I hope not.

>> No, she's not. >> What's going to happen when you say, "Hey, it's over." Is she even going to be willing to sell the house? Cuz that's another part of this problem. >> Yeah. If I'm hurt, I'm going to go, I'm squatting. I'm not going anywhere.

>> Why would you be like that out of just anger? >> I mean, >> when you're hurt, that's what you do.

>> Yeah. I mean, she could, and I don't I don't foresee that happening. Um, I think in good faith, she seemed that I've been giving it a a shot. Uh, to give you more uh details of our relationship, quite honestly, I was ready to propose to her like 5 months ago, 6 months ago. Um, but I've seen a lot of changes in the last couple months that made me um change my mind. Um, to

the point that it's like I don't want to waste her time or my time and we shouldn't even have bought this house in the first place. >> Well, that that we all agree.

>> Not married. >> Wish you could have called us before, but you know, too little too late. It's fine. Well, >> a little a little too late. But, um, what do you call it? I think to give you more context, uh she went to nursing

school uh throughout the the time uh throughout the last year. So, um she's an RN now uh with no debt. And I took

over. We were pretty much 50/50 on our

bills for the most part. We never not to the nickel, but for the most part, right, the bigger bills. Um and I sustain our household too throughout that time. So, I think I think she's logical and I think she's fair.

So, to going back to the point of it if she gives me a hard time of not wanting to sell and all that stuff, I really don't see that. I don't think it would be >> a nasty breakup, but I mean, but if it comes down to it, honestly, I make I make decent money and you want to play that game, go for it.

>> We'll take Judy. We'll let her handle it. >> Wow. This just went from like you just went from hey if she gives me a hard time I fold 50/50 to now you're like

let's go >> pony up with some lawyers. >> I don't know where this is going. John, here's the deal. Uh appreciate you telling us this here. Here here's here's my advice on this one.

>> I absolutely believe that you ought to put out what you think is fair. Uh how you choose to debate that. I'm not going to get in the middle of that. Uh, hope it's not ugly. But I do think you should say, um, hey, but I wouldn't do it right

away because you've been in counseling and you've shared with us. I love that you shared it, but for three months you've been checked out and she's got to

be either blindsided or just knows that this is coming. I don't know which way it's going to go. Doesn't matter to this call other than to say when the breakup

is done. And you got to give that a little space, George, is what I'm recommending. and then say, "We need to sell the house, and here's how I think it ought to go." Uh, and maybe a good

idea for you to get a session with your therapist who's been counseling the two of you, and maybe get some advice on how to how to maybe play this thing out because that person hopefully has been very, very objective in sitting with the two of you and might be able to help.

That that would be the ultimate ideal way to handle it. George, what do you add? What do you delete? Well, I mean, assuming all of that goes decently well, then it becomes how are we going to split this? And I just want to know, do you have things documented? Your contributions, is there a written agreement? All of that.

>> No. No. If she wants to play hard ball, I I I don't have legally I don't have a leg to stand on. [clears throat] And we if she wants to play hard, we would have to split it 50/50 and I'm out of that.

>> But it's just that's a handshake agreement that we would split a 50/50.

And what does 5050 mean >> based on contributions? Because you never talked about that and it's not written.

>> Sorry. I guess what I'm saying is going back to your question of do I have anything written as far as how much I put down, how much I put into renovations. No. And no, I I don't. If she wants to play hard ball uh from the net proceeds from the sale of the home, I don't have a leg to stand on. And my best case scenario is at that point we'll split it 50/50 from the net proceeds and I'm probably out 20 25,000.

>> I mean I would start collecting some receipts of the you know the con the labor I paid and all. I mean you can't just give up now. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I wouldn't leave 70 grand on the table.

>> Uh-uh. And I'd be real nice. I mean real

nice in breaking up with her. Yikes.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thrilled to have you with us. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in. Let's go to Zach in Houston, Texas. Zach, what is

going on?

Hey guys. Um, my question is, is it

financially okay or responsible for my

wife and I to get a golf club membership?

>> Well, that's just too simple of a question. H [laughter] how are we to know? Uh, so let's start here. George, I

know that you're itching to start asking questions here. What do you want to know? >> I want to know where you're at financially. >> So, do you guys have any debt?

>> Our only debt is our mortgage on our house. >> Okay, >> good sign. Zach, it's looking up so far.

>> You got one green light. Let's talk about your savings. How much do you have saved?

>> Um, saved like liquid.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. About five months worth of emergency fund.

Okay, another good sign, Zach. Things are looking really good. >> Household income.

>> About 215,000.

>> Hey, tell him what he's won. George, >> I I still need to know more.

>> You are such a crush. I'm so excited for you to get on the course.

>> Zack, we're three for three, but I'm going to play this out with George.

>> Well, I mean, is this a, you know, is this >> Well, go with your question. >> Is it 500 bucks a month or is it 200 grand for the initiation? >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. That's the question. >> We'll get to that. What else do you need? >> I want to know what your net worth is. >> Okay. >> My net worth is about 370K if you

include the equity in the home and retirement accounts. >> Yeah. And how and how old of a young guy are you? >> Uh my wife and I are 28.

>> I knew it. Cool. Yeah. You good, by the way? Good golfer. >> Yeah. Are you good? That's another question.

>> I'm pretty good. Yeah.

>> What's your handicap?

>> It's about a 10. >> Oh, for heaven's sakes. This guy, this guy's chomping at the bit. He's paid his dues. Zach needs membership. Okay, tell us what it's going to cost.

>> Okay, it has a $1,000 initiation fee.

>> Oh, for crying out loud. They don't even make those that cheap anymore. It's fantastic, Zach.

>> The problem is is it's like 500 bucks a month. >> Okay, who cares? Oh, look at this.

Georgie boy. >> I mean, as a percentage of your takehome. >> I agree. But you're worried about the 500 a month. I'm thrilled over the thousand initiation. You can't find that. Is this a goat track or a nice place? >> It's a pretty nice place, but it is semi-private and semi-public.

>> Okay. Well, are there any minimums as far as like food and beverage? Is this like a fancy country club vibe?

>> Um, there clubhouse is really nice, but

no, there's no minimums. >> Okay, this is an absolute slam dunk.

Yes, you can afford this. The bigger question is what does she get to do with 500 bucks of fun money a month for her?

>> I guess whatever she wants, but she's been getting into golf, too. So, this would cover both of us. >> Whoa. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Now, we're bonding as a couple. This is wonderful. >> I don't like how you quickly went to what does she get for Why do you got to be so >> I'm putting myself in her shoes. Well, that was my next question. She's in favor of this. Is that right, Zach?

Um, well, we both grew up really frugal and so the 500 bucks a month is like

it's like a pain to spend, you know, >> for for for your wife as well.

>> Yes. >> But but is she for this or is she against it for I know the pain's there,

but assuming you've talked about it before this call.

>> Yes, we did talk about it and she seemed pretty excited about it. >> Oh, well, this is a no-brainer. Um, this is just because you guys have never spent this kind of money on something like this before. It's brand new. But I'm telling you, the first month, oh, I

don't know, about day two or three where you guys go out together and the weather's nice and you're in the golf cart, got a little snack, maybe you hit some good shots that day. It's a distant memory. You Your brain will adjust to

that spend pretty quickly, right, George? Most 28-year-old dudes are spending double that on a truck payment every month. And so I want you to feel better about your decision, making $215,000 completely debtree except for the house.

I mean, it's a small percentage of your income of your world. And as long as you guys are doing everything else right, you're, you know, paying down the mortgage, investing for your future, then uh the 500 bucks, you'll you'll start flexing that spending muscle to where it doesn't feel as crazy over time. >> I got a little something extra here before we let Zach go. Okay, Zach, I have you thought about the ROI on this $500 a month.

>> I have not. >> Can I tell you? I wrote a book called The Proximity Principle, >> but forget the book in the title, just the word proximity. You being at places where other wealthy couples, wealthy men, business people are frequenting, and it's the country club.

You never know where the conversations turn and the 6,000 you're going to spend and you gladly do it. and you say, "This is about us. This is about recreation, which is good." Very well could turn into some huge opportunities in your life.

Whether you believe me or not, I'm right. You hang out at country clubs.

Good things happen. >> I sadly agree with Ken. >> Thank you very much. >> I don't go to country clubs, but if I did, I'd be a wealthier man. >> Well, I have invited you before. How many times did I invite you to come play golf at Legends, and you never showed up? Once, maybe? >> Maybe once. I think after the first one you went, "This guy's doesn't have us.

He's not coming." >> You could have driven the golf cart.

>> Now that I would do. >> Well, we gave you that option. Let's go to James in Dallas, Texas. James, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's going on? >> Yeah, I uh work a sales job and so my

income fluctuates pretty dramatically throughout the year. I end up making good money, but uh I have to keep money

set aside to go through the lean months.

So, I'm new to Dave Ramsey, so I do have

some debt and I'm trying to figure out, do I need to keep the, you know, which I

keep about six months of expenses in an

account. Do I need once I pay off my debt, do I need to get an additional 6

months or so of like emergency fund money or would you guys consider that to be the same? And anything above that number, I go and and invest in retirement accounts. I like keeping them separate. I like what you're doing now.

I kind of call it a peaks and valleys fund because you have that low month. You can float by and take it out of there instead of your emergency fund because we know it's not an emergency.

It's not unexpected.

>> And so I I would aim to have both. I like what you're doing. Keep your peaks and valleys fund right now. Pay off your debt, then build an emergency fund outside of that. And as far as that peaks and valleys fund, I would look at 2025 and go, "Hey, what was my deficit?

What was the biggest deficit I had in a single month?" And I would keep that plus a little bit of buffer in there.

>> Okay. >> I don't think you need six months of expenses. That feels over the top.

>> I think you'll see, hey, I didn't have a Z month, but I did have a few months where I needed to pull three grand out to cover my bills.

>> Yeah. >> And once you're debtree, your bills also get lower. So, that's nice.

>> You can be a little more lean.

And then once I do have my debt paid off

and I invest 15% into retirement

accounts, I have a mortgage. Should I

throw that money at my mortgage or I've also considered starting a side business but not going into debt with it? What do you >> Yeah, those are all separate things that are all good to do. So, invest 15%. If you have extra money on top of that, throw extra on the principle of your mortgage and you can start that side business.

Just do it with cash. Start slow and as it grows and you get this kind of bonus money, you can throw that at the mortgage too or reinvest in the business. >> Yeah, I like it. James, good, good question.

Love that he's doing the discipline thing here. >> Yeah, >> as a salesperson with that irregular income, you can win with it.

Great advice. And you got to love it, James, when when when the ultimate worrier, Mr. Money Anxiety himself, tells you, "I'm carefree. This is what you need to do. I'm a new man. Take that to the bank.

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[music]

Oh, the live like no one else cruise is

back, folks. For all of you who are living debtree, we'd love for you to think about and actually join us in the Western Caribbean. Do you say Caribbean or Caribbean Joy? >> It switches based on my mood to be honest. By the way, I asked the good folks that are natives of the Caribbean and they told me, "Damn, they said it's Caribbean." >> So, it is Pirates of the Caribbean is accurate. >> That is correct. That's how you say it.

Uh, this is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and Dave for seven days in paradise enjoying poolside chats. [laughter] Sorry. The way this is written as though you're going to enjoy a poolside chat with Dave. That's [laughter] what if that's what you're looking to do, you might be sorely disappointed. >> It's not going to happen. I want to go ahead and put that out there. He's not going to sit by the pool and chat with you. >> George, on the other hand, might.

>> I'll be tanning for sure. >> George likes to. [laughter] >> Oh, man. You can find Ken on the pickle ball court. >> Yeah. As a matter of fact, my favorite thing to do on this boat, it's the same boat that we went on last time and there's a pickle ball court on the top of the ship. >> Deloney will be in the workout room.

Rachel will be in the spa. And you you'll know where to find us. Where are you guess? >> Are you by the pool? >> I'll probably be at the coffee shop trying out different espressos. >> Yeah, I was going to say I think the first my favorite memory of the cruise uh was day two. who I think we were out at sea as I recall and I ran into George

uh around the pool and he had he had so

much sunscreen on him I thought that he had a mask on.

>> It was my natural skin tone.

>> You know you're supposed to rub that in.

>> Oh, >> you just slather it on as though someone basted you with mayonnaise. >> I figure it works better if it's slathered. That's what I found to be true on Google. >> Well, and just rub it in for the rest of us. It was a little alarming. I thought you were having some kind of reaction.

But anyway, that was one of my favorite memories. Hey, you don't want to wait.

You ready for this? The ship is already over halfway full. Uh, and the Neptune

suites have already sold out, so take that for what it's worth. >> Those are sweet. >> Lock in your spot with a $600 deposit

before it's too late. You can click on the link in the show notes or go to ramseyolutions.com/events.

By the way, I will tell you it was a lot of fun and I am not a cruise guy, but I

had a blast and >> it's the only way I can take a vacation is wait for the next Ramsay cruise with a, you know, infant and toddler.

>> Yeah. >> Hey, I got to go for work, sir. >> By the way, you know, you were not bringing the dogs. >> No dogs allowed. >> No dogs on the ship. Nobody wants to see your dogs. Forget it. Specifically your dogs. >> Uh Ryan is up in Kansas City. Ryan, how can we help? >> Hey guys, I'm super excited to talk to you. Um, my wife and I are having a little bit of a disagreement. Uh, >> oh, >> I I have an opportunity to go for a

promotion here in the next couple of months, and I am 37, and so my belief is

is that I should still be going for promotions and fighting hard to improve my career. Uh, my wife really wants me to stay where I am, and the reason is is that I've got a pretty large amount of anxiety that I've had to have bouts with previously from my time in the service. And I in this position have not had any problems with my anxiety. I have been really

great at this job and it's one of the few things that I, you know, like I feel like I can just do well. Um, >> what do you, let me jump in really quick. What do you think are the reasons? Is there some evidence that both you and your wife could agree on as to why you've not experienced these anxiety uh, breakouts and some of the symptoms in this particular job?

>> Yeah. So the easy answer to that is is that I've got the team here is great and

my manager is super supportive of me. My

manager has a very strong opinion on mental health. He prioritizes it. So he

he also lets me kind of have open-ended

uh goals for me to go after. So I'm I'm a project lead and and so I'm able to pick and choose kind of the projects that I want. Um, and so these have been big opportunities for me and I've done very well at them. And I think also a little bit of my success has led to my I

I guess my mental health being a lot better. >> Okay. And have you been doing therapy this whole time as well?

>> No. >> Have you done therapy before?

>> No. Uh, >> okay. Now, here's the deal. I'll let you off the hook. Okay. But listen, I didn't ask I don't want this for a second for you to feel like I put you in a corner.

Here's why I'm I'm asking. Because [snorts] if you've won and you've had very little anxiety issues in the current role, you just told me why. And you've been able to do that without any kind of help because you've had some obviously trauma serving our country, which by the way, you're a great American. Thank you for serving our country.

Um but but if you've been able to do this by the circumstances and certainly the manager and how the manager has led you, these are some good signs.

if this promotion that I have before me, are the circumstances and the manager going to be similar? That question number one. So what's the answer?

>> No, it's going to be a completely different It's going to be a big change.

I would be on a different team, different division, everything. Okay.

But but I get that. But have you in the

interview process asked enough questions to be able to figure out if the work flow will be similar?

>> Um I didn't really I looked into it outside of the interview process. Uh at the next step up it's it's going to be a

lot more customer focused and so I'm I'm going to be customerf facing a lot more. So the expectation is is it's going to be very different in my I mean the workload's going to be a lot heavier which is good and I don't mind that but >> okay but my point is is you have evidence that should now become a list

and these are the reasons why you think you've not had any anxiety episodes and you've been able to be pretty healthy mentally in this current role. It doesn't have to be apples to apples but I but I do think it's worth digging a little deeper on this especially with your wife having a concern. And I want to bring George in uh cuz I think he has a unique perspective on this. Are you're listening to this uh your thoughts on this? >> I think there's an assumption that the leap would would lead to anxiety. And

the other part to think about is okay, let's assume there is going to be and let's plan ahead for that and let's figure out how to manage that if it does happen, but I wouldn't skip over this promotion just out of kind of comfort.

That also scares me and I think that can lead to a lot of regret on on its own end. And you there's an assumption too that the grass is not going to be as green as it is now. And I would be asking questions like Ken said, hey, what's the leadership style over there?

What's the team dynamic like? What is going to be the amount of time I'm interfacing with customers? And then we go, okay, now we have a better picture. We have some clarity. Is this worth the leap for the added responsibility and paycheck? >> Have you talked to your current manager about this promotion?

Yeah. So, I'm I'm very open with him about everything that I'm looking at.

>> Here's why I asked the question. I would want to sit with him and go, "Hey, you have been phenomenal and created an environment uh and certainly a workflow that has helped me. What do you think about me taking this role? Have you done that?"

>> Yeah. So, yes, he his statement was was you should, you know, at your age, you should still be going for promotions. you should still be trying to work your way up the ladder. Um, >> I agree.

>> But he did tell me he did tell me he goes, "Hey, you know, this next step is going to add a lot more stress onto you." And I know that's something you struggled with in your past. >> Okay? >> You know, if you stay here for longer, there may be options deep, you know, deeper in the future, but I think we've all heard that before. >> Yeah.

So, here's here's what I'm telling you.

Now is the time for you to actually go get that help. get the tools in place now. >> Get the tools and go, I've got I just kind of walked into a situation where it really helped me, but if I'm walking, I need the ability to be able to deal with the past trauma and how that affects me. I would get into therapy instantly. Can I ask what the jump in pay is? What are you making now? What would you be making?

>> Yeah, so I'm I'm making 107 and my wife

also makes around the same. And then uh the jump in pay would be to 120 to about 125. But I've also got disability coming

from uh the army which is 24k a year.

>> Wow. That gives you some options. It really helps you progress with your financial future. Do you guys got some goals ahead?

>> Well, yeah. So, I've been listening to the show for like two and a half months and uh I've always believed that debt was kind of a bad thing, but my wife got a brand new truck. We're going to pay that off. Um, and so right now we're we're looking to pay that off and my goal is is to have that paid off within the next year to [music] 18 months.

>> Nice. You got you got a new Y now.

>> But I do think you need to seriously address with her what you're going to do uh to make sure that you have the tools to be able to handle any stress and anxiety with this new role. [music] I think that's a fair question for her and she's asking cuz she cares about you.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

All >> [music]

>> right, in the lobby here at our Ramsey headquarters, we've got Randy and Erica

on the debt-free stage. Welcome.

>> Thank you. Hello. >> Where are you guys in from? >> Uh Boise, Idaho. >> Boisey, Idaho. Okay. Welcome. Welcome.

Welcome. All right. Let's hear the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

>> 380,000. $380,000

in 13 years. >> In over 13 years. Okay. And what was the

range of income? >> 100,000 to 200,000.

>> Okay. What do you guys What do you guys do for a living? >> I'm a school principal. >> Okay. >> I'm an occupational therapist.

>> Okay. Wow. Fantastic. All right. So, what kind of debt are we talking about?

>> OUR HOUSE. >> OH, WHAT ARE THOSE people [laughter] over there? peaking suspicion. I was like, "That amount of money over that amount of time feels like they were knocking out that mortgage." >> That's right.

That's right. >> That's incredible. >> They would want us to call you weird people, right? >> I won't do that.

I'll leave that to Dave. >> I felt like we had to do it. I only say that because I know he's thinking it somewhere. Yes.

>> We're the weirdest people around right now. So, >> that's that's a fact. >> All right.

>> 900,000 approximately.

>> Oh my goodness. And what do you guys got in your nest egg? >> Uh, another 700,000.

>> Oh my goodness. We are going to baby steps millionaires. That's not even including pensions and cars and who knows what else. That's incredible.

Cash. I want to point out this is a man who's in education. So, I mean it can be done, can it not? >> Definitely.

>> And you did it. >> All right. We That's right. You did it together.

>> Yep. >> Uh, so what took place? What was the impetus 13 years ago to say we're going to pay our house off? >> Um, it was the feeling of panic, I guess, would be best describe um what happened.

We um we needed to buy five plane tickets for a funeral for my father.

put it on credit. We just didn't have anything in savings. We didn't we never

planned anything ahead. We were not prepared for anything. Car broke down, whatever. We would just have to put it on credit. And you know, it was a major

kick in the stomach knowing we knew this day would come and we just we just weren't ready. And it was pretty horrible to have to worry about money at that time instead of being with our family. So um I think from that moment

on is when we seriously said we have got to do something and we got back from that trip and a friend had done financial peace or had knew about Dave Ramsey and we had no idea who he was and

she talked us into doing the financial peace class. So that's kind of when the whole thing started. >> So who did you get the idea from the friend together or did one of you get it and had to bring it home to the other?

Yeah, it was a parent at my school.

>> Okay. >> And um became fast friends and we took

the class with them and then Erica went on to teach >> as soon as it was over. I taught a class at at our um at his school. He worked at

a Catholic school so we taught the class there and we were just like we just have

to it just helped our fire, you know, just kind of doing that. >> Yeah. It's it's hard to not stay accountable when you're teaching the stuff, telling everyone else to do it, right? like we got to be doing it first.

>> Yeah. And it was incredible. >> It was tough. Like in the beginning when this the lesson where you have to cut up your credit cards, he was like, "Nope, not doing that. >> This guy's gone too far. This Dave guy." >> Oh, I love that. So, you're in the class together and that lesson pops up and you're like, "Whoa, this is a bridge too far." >> Yeah. It was a gut check. And years ago, Dave said it's um usually one credit

card that you have a hard time cutting up. And for me it was it was uh my first credit card. My dad provided it for me.

Sure. >> And um I don't know why it had strings attached. >> Sentimental. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But uh cut up the American Express and

and we were go >> right. But every every class I remember it was like okay we need to do that.

Like we we we had done nothing. I mean every class we learned something and then went home and did it. And from that moment forward, it just kind of, you know, it's went from there. So, >> so how do you stay motivated 13 years?

You know, I'm sure there was some fits and starts and some great seasons and some seasons where you're like, we're not making much progress here. What was it like? >> And one of those the season that we really turned it on was co. Um, obviously as educators, uh, we still

>> were lucky. We were lucky. We still had our jobs. I was a school occupational therapist, so I worked in the schools.

He was working in the schools and when others were struggling with no income, we still had ours and we weren't spending money on anything. And at the same time, he was able to get extra jobs teaching online, teaching night school,

>> doing school, u deficient in credits. Uh

took a few jobs. One was a a lift operator at our local ski mountain. The worst job I've ever had. Really? Why is that? I I don't know much about that.

>> It's You're cold and you're seeing people having a blast uh skiing in powder and you're saying >> there's your chair. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Okay. I was picturing you like maybe on some type of a, you know, lever or stick and if somebody was particularly smug, you just [laughter] put it stop and they fall off. I didn't know if that ever happened. >> Okay. Good, good, good. And uh um

lumberyard some a lot of jobs in Erica also. >> Good for you. I worked probably for 10

years uh every weekend doing um therapy

in rehab settings like in adult rehab.

So I worked in the schools and then when I had summers and Christmas off I would pick up work doing extra at adult rehab

so that I could make extra income. So >> yeah, you know, I just thought of something I wanted to ask ask you both, but certainly Randy, you know, here you are in esteemed position, you know, in what you do >> and here you are operating a lift, working in a lumber yard. And I think there are people that are listening and watching you both right now.

>> And George, you mentioned this earlier in the show. You talk about pride and we all have pride, but pride can really, you know, rear its ugly head when you need to swallow your pride and do what it takes. What would you say to people because you I'm sure you dealt with that. What would you say to people that are feeling that because right now they're out driving, delivering something or doing something they feel a little shame over, >> right? Um there's no no feeling like

being debtree and u we had our last

mortgage payment in September >> and it was we were giddy >> and our kids have been so supportive but you're right it was a lot of pride swallowing. Um Erica was always there to say you know let's stay focused. Um, I can rem distinctly remember a day. It was about 105 working out in the lumber yard and flies are everywhere and I'm thinking, what am I doing? I'm, you know, 52 years old and picking this up.

>> Just to add, sorry, I don't mean to step on you. Um, when you get your paycheck though and you can use that to pay for

all the the extra principal or all the

utilities instead of something else, like it it kind of helps to take away that like it was brutal getting up at 5:30 in the morning to go to work for 6 hours, but when I got my paycheck, >> I felt like I did something and it made a difference. >> You got like a little dopamine hit. You go, "All right, that was worth it. I got some instant gratification here after all my hard work." Yeah.

>> I just love that Randy is either sweating or freezing with all the [laughter] side hustles. >> Did you not pick something a little more temperate?

>> Ken and I are indoor cats. So, we're >> really We don't do well outside of this air controlled studio. All right, real quick. Tell people what the key to getting out of debt is.

>> Go ahead, Eric. [sighs] >> H um you have to get to that moment where you are just like Dave says, sick and tired. And you when you get there, there's nothing that's going to stop you. You're going to just do it.

If you're ready, you're gonna do it and you're gonna be gazelle intense and it's gonna sustain you and you're gonna make it there. >> Love that. Yeah. >> Who are some of your biggest supporters on this journey?

>> Our definitely our kids. Um I got to throw in there our kids were um they didn't really tune in.

20 and um it didn't hit them until they

were going to college which we cash flowed completely and um where they had

Roths set up they were working they were putting money in and then they realized

hey we're close to being debtree and they were talking about going to school and uh with a with a a fellow a friend

who's $100,000 in student debt and that's when it really clicked for them.

So they've been our biggest >> how blessed and privileged they are and you guys change your family tree.

>> I think they realize how lucky they are.

>> All right. I hope so. So this is the moment you guys will work so hard. This is the emotional finish line right as you get ready for the scream. Here we go. This is fun. We got Randy and Erica from Boise, Idaho. They paid off 380,000 in 13 years, making 100 all the way up to 200,000. Randy, Erica, take it away.

Let's hear your debtree scream. Three, two, one. WE'RE DEAD.

THERE WE GO. [cheering] They did it, George. >> So fun, isn't it? >> I keep thinking of Thomas Jefferson. I'm a I'm a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more luck I have.

>> There it is. >> I like that. Even if it's in the lumber yard or on that ski lift raising your butt off. Hard work creates luck. And they've uh created that for themselves.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramiesolutions.com/realestate.

Our

[music]

scripture of the day comes from Romans 13:8. Owe no one anything except to love

each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

I love you, George. Thank you. I appreciate that. I love you, too, Ken. There you go. No debts owed, just love.

That's it. It's all we got between us. >> I'll put that on a shirt or stitch it on [laughter] a pillow.

>> And our quote of the day from Mark Twain. Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.

That's a sick burn from Twain. >> You have to love him cuz he was the original snark. >> If Twitter was around, he would be the number one tweeter out there. >> Uh, bonus points.

Little known fact, some people will care. What is his real life name? Oh, I know this in the back of the recesses of my mind. Is it Charles?

>> I think somebody in the booth does somebody in a booth know. I'll give them credit. >> All right, hit us. >> No, nobody has.

>> Samuel Clemens. >> For those keeping score at home. Hey, you know, I like to bless America every once in a while with a little known fact he can drop at a cocktail party. Maybe or not. >> A trivia night. >> Or trivia night. Yeah, that could come in handy at your local Applebee's.

>> What was Mark Twain's real name? I see that showing up. And I can't on my trivia team. I'm just saying. >> Trust me, you do. Strong in the area of political and uh history and sports and

not bad in entertainment. Uh where I where I'm a real liability is science and math. [laughter] >> Who does trivia around math? That's the worst trivia night. >> I don't know. I don't go to these things. >> Okay. >> Uh Brooks is up in Chicago. Brooks, how can we help?

>> Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on with you?

So, um, I'll just cut right to the chase. Short story. At age 34, I was diagnosed with stage 4 positive lung cancer. >> Oh my.

>> And I'm [clears throat] 37 now. Um, I have four children. Um, I've been on disability the last year and a half. I did I did start working in October. Um, just two or three days a week, but um, back down to one one day a week now. But my [clears throat] question is, um, I I have a Smart Investor Pro friend that, um, handles my finances, and we were able to do a life, um, Viatical settlement on a $500,000 life insurance policy. Um, my my cancer is terminal, by

the way. >> So, that's why we decided to >> Well, that's why we decided to do it.

Um, and we settled with 29,000.

Um, we it's as of today right now it's

at 228,000 in a brokerage account and I

also have a traditional IRA at 73,000.

Um, over the last 10 years, you know, we've had some debt here and there, but as of today, we are debtree except for our mortgage. >> Wow. >> Um, so my question is, what do I do with my situation? Um, I can give you my like

how much I make a month or whatever you guys need. So, >> how much is uh on the house mortgage?

>> Uh 284,000. It's valued at 599 as of

spring of 2025.

>> Wow, >> man. This is a heavy one.

>> I know you've been sitting with it. Uh

>> what what does your family think about all this? Have you talked to your wife?

Because a pretty there's some big financial decisions to make here, too.

Uh yeah, my wife is um she's on board with whatever um we decide to do together. Um we, you know, have been in it from day one. We've been together for 20 years, married for 14, a high school sweetheart. So, um whatever decision we

do make, we make together.

>> So, what is the the sort of fork in the road as far as financial decisions for you? Um, I guess knowing I have a 10-year-old, 8-year-old, 6, and three-year-old, what to do with the brokerage account? Um, do I let it grow

until I have enough to pay the house off and then do it, or do I let that continue to grow, um, not knowing exact

I mean, I know none of our us know exactly how many days we have, but knowing that I could have, you know, three, five years, you know, or less.

Yeah. >> Or more. And what happens with the brokerage account if you would pass?

>> Um, my wife, it's it's uh it's in the joint brokerage account. >> Okay. So, it' go straight to her and then she can use that to pay off the mortgage. So, that's one option versus taking what's in there now, throwing it at the mortgage, and then using your future income to knock out the mortgage over a period of time.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Man, I would personally, if I was in your shoes, I would just hang on to that brokerage account for now. Mhm. >> You don't have enough to knock out the mortgage and so you're still going to have that payment every month. And so I'm totally good with you just waiting.

If you have enough to knock out the mortgage and it just give you guys peace, then I would do that at that point. >> Okay. >> What did your Smart Investor Pro say? I'm curious.

>> Um I've asked him um once when I before

we got the money. I haven't followed up with him yet cuz we were just kind of letting this grow. Um, but he he

said, you know, to keep hold on to the money as well and let it grow.

>> Cool. Yeah, I like that plan. There's just a lot of variables coming up and who knows how they'll use that money and, you know, what income stream they will have after that. Have you guys thought about that portion? Will any of her disability or your disability go to her? >> She should be able to draw off my um

disability. Yes. if if I pass if I if I understand the the laws and everything, right? Um and then the kids also, it's about they get about $1,000 a month.

>> Okay, that's great. I would make sure to do your due diligence on on how the future income is going to happen. That's more important than just solving the mortgage problem. You want to make sure they can cover all their expenses with or without the mortgage.

But man, these are you don't want to be making these kind of decisions um with your diagnosis. So, I'm so sorry to hear and I'm wishing you the best, the longest life you can have and the best time you can have with your family. >> Yeah, Brooks, we're so very sorry.

It's it's unbelievable that we're even having this conversation with you. Uh you sound like you just got a great frame of mind uh given this unimaginable

situation you're dealing with. So, yeah, this is a lot of communication over these things. Seek the counsel of many.

uh make decisions uh as best you can um

without any time of fear, but just say, "All right, we're going to make the best decision we can make for the future." And uh and let the chips fall where they may. So sorry you're dealing with this. Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with us, Brooks. So so so unbelievable there. Uh let's go to Chris

now in Atlanta, Georgia. Chris, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

Um, so I am about $20,000 in the hole on

my current vehicle.

Um, and I'm getting ready to sell my house. Um, I just moved to Georgia from Michigan. I'm closing on Monday. I'm

going to net about $66,000.

>> Okay. And so I'm just wondering, should I just bite the bullet and get rid of this truck?

Um, >> what's the What's the truck worth? >> The best.

>> Uh, it's worth about 35. I just recently

got it appraised and I owe 53.

>> Okay. And what's your income?

>> Uh, right now about 60,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah, this truck has to go, man.

>> If you were making 200 grand and you love the truck, I would say, "Hey, [snorts] just pay it off with the net proceeds of the house and be done." But this truck is just too much of your world.

>> Yeah, I was making closer to uh six

figures when I originally bought it, but that uh that changed.

>> What's the payment on it and the insurance?

>> It is $900 a month for the payment and

another $230 for the insurance.

So, here's the good news. You are going to take a hit and if you can sell it private party, get as much as you can for it, it'll be less of a hit. But that 66k net is going to turn into 46K net

and you'll clear the the loan and the mortgage and sorry, the insurance, which frees you up, 1100 bucks a month for the rest of your life. And then with the other money, you're probably going to need something to drive. So, let's get a $10,000 car, $15,000 car in cash. And

then whatever money is left becomes our emergency fund.

Well, I'm hoping to buy another house

down here in Georgia.

>> Not anytime soon.

>> With what money? Cuz once you cover the deficit, get an emergency fund and buy a different car, that money is is has been earmarked?

>> So, if you do it this way, now we'll have a clean slate financial foundation.

We'll never need to go into debt again.

Then we can begin saving up a down payment. But making 60 grand, it's going to take a while to buy a house where you're going. And that's okay. Move slow. The reason we're here today is because we moved fast and made a lot of assumptions. Let's create some financial peace. You can do it, Chris. Hang in there. Freedom is on the other side of all this. Thanks for the call. Remember folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 164. Take Ownership Of Where Your Life Is Headed | February 20, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

The phone number here is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Suzanne is going to start this off in Chicago. Hi Suzanne, how are you?

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Me too. Me too. So, um, okay, my

daughter and her husband have been living in New York City for several years and of course paying, you know, exorbitant rent per month, but their goal is to someday like move out of the city, purchase a home, but for right now, their jobs require them to stay in New York. Okay, so they've now decided that they want to purchase property there to live in and hopefully gain some equity to put toward a house someday.

Okay, so normally I would think, okay, that's fine. But with the current mayor and the administration there, I'm just not so sure this is a good idea. So, because that administration has called property ownership, and I'm quoting, a weapon of white supremacy, and he also said they want to, and I'm quoting again, establish a community land trust to gradually buy up housing on the private market and convert it to community ownership. So, everyone's saying, "Oh, no, that'll never happen.

You're overreacting. that'll you know but I mean things have happened that I never forese saw so I'm just nervous that my daughter and her husband let's say if they bought property would not be able to sell it profitably in the years to come if this happens if it turns into

communal property. So am I wrong to discourage them or am I overreacting like they say?

>> That's interesting.

So I I'm 65 years old. How old are you?

>> 73. Yeah, because I, you know, um

I'm because I agreed with your statement. There's things that have happened in this world that I never dreamed I would see, >> right? >> And some of them have been normalized and I'm really never dreamed I would see that. Um and and then but worse than that, you're evil if you thought that something that was completely freaking crazy has been normalized and you say it's crazy.

When you say it out loud, you get e you get, you know, you're a horrible person and you should be sent straight to hell. And so I this is a weird world we live in for old people like me. >> Yeah. Me too.

Me too. >> So yeah.

the show and Ken does too and all of our guys here, we try to answer the question, what would I do if I were in your shoes? Would I personally buy a

property in New York City today in this

uncertain environment?

>> Yeah.

You know, I the pro the the what I would have to weigh out is whether or not this

goober can actually pull off some of this stupid butt stuff he's trying to do. If I thought he could pull it off, there's no way I would do it. If I thought it's just a pipe dream and there's no chance that socialism survives in New York City, then um you

know that it's just crazy and it's you know it's hyped up in the news and you know it gives Fox News something to talk about and you know if I you know all that kind of stuff. If I thought that, then I would just buy and just move on and not worry about it because, you know, most things work their way out. Particularly real estate ends up working its way out. But it doesn't work its way out if you start stealing property from the private property owner, >> right? >> In the name of virtue.

>> Well, that's what happened in Venezuela.

>> Well, yeah, this we're not a banana republic yet. >> What are they planning? >> What is the current what is the current thing that they're looking at? Where, what, how much?

Why don't they just step out of the city itself and go buy something out on the island or out at Westchester or something? Just step out of New York. >> They they like being right close to >> Yeah, I bet they like it. But I mean, I don't think matter of fact, I don't think they're going to do anything you and I say, too.

By the way, I think they're going to do whatever they're going to do after this conversation. So, >> that's true. >> We're probably wasting our breath.

>> Um >> Um, if it were your daughter, you would say >> I would say I wouldn't do it today.

I'm going to let some of this flame out or gin up. If it flames out, I'm going

to buy. If it gins up, I'm walking out of there.

>> Okay. >> So, same thing's happening with Gen with Goober Newsome. He's adding one more reason to leave California.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. The billionaire tax. And uh it isn't actually him. I take that back. He's come out against it. Some of the other um communists over there. So, there's like we're going to tax billionaires. Let me help you with this.

You can't tax billionaires. They leave.

>> Right. Right. >> And they've been leaving your state like

like a Baptist after a casserole. I mean, they've been getting out of there, you know, and so and so you it doesn't work. But then if you say I can tell you

I have five, six friends in Nashville

that are billionaires that are all former California and they paid cash for multi-million dollar houses with what they saved on California income tax the first year that they left there. I I know one guy that owns a winery over there. It's the only asset he's got left over there and he gives all the wine away every year because he refuses to pay California a dime.

>> He gives it all to charity. I think he announced uh the New York City budget. I think it was yesterday or the day before and it exceeds the entire state of Florida. So, how I think it was 127

billion or something and he said, "Well, how are you going to fund that?" Well, he said, "Not just the billionaires. I'm going to tax everybody." >> Yeah. >> So, welcome to socialism.

>> Yeah. Again, I told you what he was going to do and then you elected him, so you get what you paid for. >> That's right. >> Um, you know, >> but again, you know, things things that I thought would never happen, Dave, have happened.

>> I don't know.

Okay. >> Right. Right. >> And and as long as this flames out. So I I might give it a hot minute and let it see if it flames out or not.

>> I'd probably just push the pause button.

It's not like I'm running out of here with my hair on fire cuz the whole place is going to hell. I don't think that's going to happen. Not quick anyway. It's harder to turn this a ship that size than he thinks it is.

>> I I I really hope you're right. And that's So you would say >> I just say, "Wait a minute. Why don't you Why don't you honestly would go out to Westchester and get outside the city and buy something? Shut up.

You can I'm going to live downtown." Well, get your dad gum car or get a car service and go downtown and then you don't get your property confiscated by a communist. I mean, >> you know, I mean, that's that's not that hard a decision, but uh but they're giving you again, they're not going to do any of this, Susan. So, they're going to do whatever they're going to do. So, it's not they're not going to listen to you or me.

We're just boomers. What do we know?

>> Yeah. But my advice for Susan is dovetailing off of what you said. If you just go in there and you tell tell, there's a low probability that your adult kid is going to go with your advice. I think you've got to take the posture of asking and so not tell and I

can tell you're fired up and you have reserve the right to be fired up, but that's going to go in one ear and out the other. So if I'm you, uh I would be asking really good, thoughtful, critical questions, not with a opinion attached to the question, but enough that they lose sleep at night. This is the form of a good interview. You know, uh if you're doing customer interviews, you want to create questions that customers sit with or uh somebody you're interviewing for a job.

Same deal here.

case, the risk, the the farterm, the

short term, and just ask questions and hopefully they have enough discernment and common sense to see some of the red flags that you see. I think that's the approach I take as a problem with adult children is you don't really get a vote. >> You don't. So ask don't tell.

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Nancy is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Nancy.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am a single mom uh living in a toxic

environment and I make 1,200 a month right now. How do I get out of this?

>> What is a toxic environment?

Um, I'm staying with my mom. I have two

kids. Uh, and I'm staying with my mom

right now because I couldn't figure out a way to get myself stable housing for me and my kids. >> Okay. And so she let you stay there, but she's a jerk, >> pretty much. >> Yeah. Is that what is that what toxic environment means or is there something else going on?

Well, um I was married and uh got

divorced 10 years ago when my daughter was born. Um she didn't believe me about

the how abusive he was and she ended up

I was living with her after I got divorced and she ended up moving him into the house without telling me.

>> Is he there now?

>> No, he's in jail.

>> Well, there's that. >> He should be going to He should be going to prison for a while. Why?

>> Um CSC charges against my daughter.

>> As well as >> Okay. Does she believe that now since he got arrested?

>> She does, but she keeps saying I can't believe it. I just never saw it.

>> Yeah. Well, she didn't like being wrong.

Okay. So, um >> and it's >> Wow. >> She she doesn't let me parent my kids either, you know. >> Okay. So, the answer to your question is economic. It's your income, isn't it?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. The what I was trying to establish is there's not an emergency.

There's just a unpleasant human being I want to get away from.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Pretty much. Yeah. >> Well, the emergency's in jail.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, now we're down to an unpleasant mother who's not real bright.

Okay. And so, yeah, I you know, but

obviously the issue is your income sucks, right?

>> Yeah. >> So, what are we doing about that, Ken?

Well, I want to know what you're doing now. Where are you getting the income?

>> Well, I have two jobs. I work about

three nights a week cleaning a medical facility for$,750 an hour, which ends up

being about 800 a month.

>> Mhm. >> And then I have a job at a chain store

working. I get 1550 an hour and I work one or two days a week and I'm also taking two college classes.

>> Okay. Well, we need to probably pause the college classes. I'll come back to that in a minute, but most likely we're pausing that because the college classes will be there. What do you need if we could wave a wand right now and gave you take-home pay of what? What's that number that would allow you to move out of mom's house and also have some margin living somewhere else?

>> Uh, well, if I want to stay where I am, I would need 4,000. But if I move where I want to move, I could make it on 1,500

to 2,000 a month. >> I really like that. What's keeping us from moving where you want to?

>> Well, I have to finish out school.

>> No, you don't. No. >> For this semester. Well, if I drop out of college, I lose my fund. Like, I've

I've get the Pell Grant. I get scholarships. And if drop out, I'm afraid I will.

>> Do you want Okay, let me put it this way. Do you want to continue to have a miserable life and be behind the eightball and all the negative things you're experiencing just because of these classes and these grants that I'm telling you to pause anyway? I think you take the loss. We take the loss on the college classes and we move to a better place. We reduce our expenses. We get on

our feet and we start a new life. You've been in massive crisis mode.

>> Fulltime job fulltime career. 40 hours a

week. You work two part-time jobs now and barely making anything.

>> Yeah. >> You need a full-time job in a new place.

And then when we get things moving and there's groceries and lights and rents paid, then we'll think about classes later.

>> Okay. >> By the way, by the way, if you make $80,000 a year, you don't need a PEL grant, >> right? But I How am I going to make $80,000 a year? >> I don't know yet. But we haven't got there. We just got started on this 10 minutes ago. >> We got to get stable before we start planning for the long term. But let's just go there for 30 seconds. >> Don't plan to be poor is my point.

>> What What are you taking these classes for? What what what path was it putting you on? >> Uh bachelor's degree.

>> I know. In what?

>> Wildlife or environmental conservation.

>> Why?

>> Um I looked it up that something that I

would enjoy doing and it 60 to 80,000 a

year. >> Okay, great. Doing what?

>> Who cares if it's 60 to 80? Who pays 60 to 80,000 for a wildlife? What in the world? What are you talking about? You going to work at the zoo?

>> Well, you could. I mean, there's lots of different >> state parks and lots of things. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Lots of things. Especially the state that I would like to move to.

>> Okay. Which is where?

>> Arkansas. >> Okay. So, I'd be talking to them uh for

instance, the park and wreck uh department at the state about what they need to h have somebody hired. And that can become your long-term goal. And your short-term goal is get down there and get a job and have money for food.

>> That's right. >> And get away from all this craziness.

>> And what you might find is that when I move to Arkansas and maybe I'm working at Target or Walmart or whatever, but I'm making good money. I've got some benefits. And then I start to look at what are the nonderee jobs in the Arkansas Wildlife Department. Every state has a uh natural resources

department. So there are government jobs all across the board. And I know this because I worked for the governor of Virginia. So there are jobs in Arkansas that are adjacent to the ultimate job

you want that you might need the degree for. So you're thinking about a ladder right now. Ladder number one, get to Arkansas 40 hours a week, good pay, get margin, lower my expenses, get healthy.

>> Step two. Yeah. Step two, I I look where can I get into a non-deree job in the department of, you know, natural resources. >> Oh, and by the way, they have a program that pays for tuition. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And you don't need a PEL grant. >> So, this is doable, but you got to move, right? You got to make the first step.

Move. >> The reason you're stuck is you have no

income.

>> Yeah. >> That's why you're stuck. >> Well, so when I move, should I rent or

buy? >> Rent. You're broke. Get a roommate.

>> What? >> Rent the cheapest thing you can rent.

>> I cannot get a roommate. >> Okay, bad idea. But it was at least had to be said. >> I don't know why you can't get a roommate. >> All roommates aren't evil sex abusers.

>> That's right. >> Just the one you picked last time.

You can definitely get a roommate. Just cuz your mother's a Froot Loop and you married and you were hanging out with a guy who abused your daughter, that doesn't mean all people are that way.

You just ran into a couple of losers in a row. But that doesn't mean all humans are that way. There's great people out there that need a place to stay and would love being around a lady who's trying to get herself together. So anyway, get get quit saying, "I can't.

I can't. I can't. I can't." And figure out how you can. I can't do this cuz I'm going to lose a Pell Grant.

Well, whoopdedoopy. We just told you why you don't even need it. And then let's get up and get going and get some get some income coming in. And otherwise, you're going to sit there and talk about what this is and what this isn't.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And again, back to the roommate thing and why we suggest that now we take $1,500, which will be your greatest expense, and we cut that in half. And margin for you financially right now is going to turn into emotional freedom.

And emotional freedom is going to turn into confidence. And I'm telling you, Dave and I can hear it on you. You need some confidence. And that's why we're telling you this move is going to absolutely generate confidence.

You're a mama bear. Nobody's stopping you. You're going to take care of those kiddos or your child. And so you've got to channel that.

>> Yeah. That's um and it it is about hope.

>> Yeah. It is about believing that there is a chance that if I do these three things, this is one of these things is going to work. Somehow this is going to work. But and 100% chance this is going

to go get worse if you sit there.

>> You know, if you sit and poop, it's 100% chance it's going to smell.

100% chance. And so, yeah, you got to get up and go, I'm I'm not sitting in this stuff. I'm going to go do something else. I'm going to completely move. I'm not going here anymore. That's right. And and but that's a again you got to there has there's a belief that Ken's talking about that comes with that a confidence that comes with that and it will be multiplied as you start to have some wins cuz it's been a little while since you had a check in the win column.

Most of your checks are in the losing column. >> So you need some checks over in the side where I win. I won that one. I won that one. I won that one. So yeah, if I'm

you, I'm working 16 jobs right now.

piling up some money, loading the car up with the kids and the clothes, and I'm heading to Arkansas.

>> There you go. Just like that.

Hey, what's up? This is Dr. John Deloney from my friends at Mama Bear Legal Forms. I spend a lot of time talking with people about anxiety, relationship challenges, and all kinds of other things that keep people up at night.

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Well, if you're debtree and you're

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Right. >> Come on there for just more of that. I think America wants more of that accent.

That's great. >> The hillbilly Jamaican accent. You can't get those just anywhere. >> No. You have to work years to develop that.

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You can book a cabin right now. We'd love to have you guys go with us. It's going to be a lot of fun. John's in Charlotte. Hey, John. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, we're me and my wife, we're new to Ramsay. Um, we just got the Every Dollar app kind of plugging things in.

>> Good. Um, and we want to get out of debt

as efficient and quickly as possible.

Um, we have about 40,000 consumer debt on credit cards, 69,000 on a vehicle,

and um, we make about $210,000 a year.

>> How much money do you have in the bank that's not retirement?

>> Uh, we have $17,000 in savings

right now. >> That's it. Um, I was wondering also, should I sell my truck that >> probably kickstart this off?

>> Yeah, probably. I mean, it's the it's the glaring problem in the numbers, isn't it?

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Yeah. So, here's the formula. Okay. I have a truck that I love, and I'm guessing you like this truck.

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. That's fair. It's okay to like your truck. I've got a I got a Raptor R and it's a freaking beast. I love it. So, um, uh, and I wouldn't want

to sell and I won't want you to sell your truck, but here's the formula that we use, okay? What we've determined from 30 plus years of doing all this stuff is if you have a car that is keeping you from getting out of debt within 2 years, 100% debtree except your house within two years, then you need to sell the car. So, what I'm going to do in that on that basis, if I'm in your shoes, if you're going to use that as your measure, and I suggest you do, um, is you sit down, you say, "Okay, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans.

We're not going out to eat." And shut up about buying anything. We're getting out of debt, scorched freaking earth, okay?

No life. We're chopping up the credit cards tonight. We're going to light some candles and have a plastic surgery party. No credit cards, no debt, no fun.

All we do is work and get out of debt.

And if we do that, making $200,000 a year and we lived on $100,000 a year, you would be debtree in one year.

>> Wow. >> Okay, that's the numbers, right? You have 69 plus 40. You have 109,000 in debt. If you're unwilling to cut your freaking lifestyle out of 200 grand far enough to

pay off 109,000 within two years, then yes, you should sell your truck. But you're probably not going to make it even if you sell your truck cuz you're not willing to cut out the stupid butt stuff you've been doing that got you here.

>> Yeah, I think we're ready now. >> Good. I think you are. I think I hear it in your voice.

>> Yeah, >> that's why I said that. I wouldn't have said been that mean to somebody that I didn't think got it. Yeah, I might, but probably not today. But >> 50-50 chance.

>> Yeah. But yeah, I I I think you got it, man. So, I what I'm gonna do if I'm you is I'm gonna say I'm gonna we're gonna go hardcore on this. We're going to drive to ground.

We're going to try to I'm going to work extra. We're not We're not going on vacation. No, we're not buying a couch.

We're going to feed the family. We are going to have a little bit of Christmas, but this family's been living on more than we make, which is absurd. We're not in Congress. We have to stop this, >> right? >> And when you guys get when you and your wife get that and then you start putting that in the Every Dollar app, and it translates into margin in the math, that

that that passion that I'm using in my voice right now translates to margin in the math. and you say, "Okay, we're gonna find $8,000, $6,000, $10,000, whatever it is,

a month to put on this, and we're going

to be done in 14 months or 9 months." Or

you start mapping it out, then you keep the truck. >> Is it worth that level of sacrifice to keep this truck? It might be. It's probably a pretty good truck.

>> Or you're like, I don't know if I want to give up that much. I'd rather give up the truck. Okay, that's cool. give up the truck then.

>> Yeah, the truck uh KBB has it at like $52,000 and it's paid off. So, I'm thinking if I just sell it, then maybe it can take us less than a year to get out of this, right? >> Well, you debt in 20 minutes if you got a $10,000 truck.

52 minus a $10,000 truck pays off the credit cards. You're done.

>> But you still got to fix your freaking spending problem, right?

>> Yeah. >> You still got to learn to live on less than you make. You still got to not be waving those credit cards around like they're money.

>> Yeah, those are done. >> Yeah, but you see what I'm saying? So, if you if you go that route, that's the shortcut out. But make sure you fix the thing all the way at the source so you're never back here again. >> Mhm. >> Right. I got you.

>> Yeah. Hey, how old are you?

>> I appreciate that.

>> 35. >> What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, I'm a truck driver.

>> Yeah. John, I think you're going to do this. I think you got the ability to do this. And I don't care which way you go.

I tell you what you could do. Here's a third suggestion. Suggestion one's gut it out like I talked about. Suggestion two, sell the truck like you talked about and you're out now.

Suggestion three could be a medium. Let's try this for a few months and see how much progress we can make and maybe we can keep the truck. But if we try it for a couple months and it and everybody's whining and everybody's barking and everybody's chirping, then um we still got to fix the spending, but we got to sell the truck, >> right? You could try it for like three months hardcore and see how much progress you make.

See how encouraged you and the spouse become and and then that's okay. I'm okay if you sell it.

But if you want to gut it out, as long as you pay it off in under two years and the credit cards, too, and you fix the problem, I'm okay.

Yeah. I you know, I I think you ought to do what Dave says and I think you ought to try it uh for 90 days and uh hold on

to the emotion of that truck. you like the truck. So, you're going to say yes to the truck by saying no to everything

else you've been doing. That's the mindset switch you've got to do. And I actually like that, Dave. I like that approach.

Uh because you >> resets your brain. >> Yeah. You don't feel the sacrifice uh if you just sell the truck immediately. And we know that you can always go back to it.

But here's the deal. 40,000 in debt. We didn't ask his income. What >> you say?

200. >> Was it 200? I'm sorry, I missed it. Then my point is that could be paid off really quickly anyway.

So, I kind of like the idea of going it's like losing weight. It's like saying I want to lose 50 pounds. Well, there's only one way to do that one day at a time, >> you know, like you don't you're not you're not weeks uh week one looking in the mirror going how am I doing?

>> It is I got to win each day. And I like

that because you and I know there's a higher probability that the habits change. You got to have a permanent change in the process you use and the habits you use and the spiritual look you have on money so that you don't come back here again. And if you have that permanent change, you got what we wanted for you. We love you and we want you to win.

And John, I think you got the right stuff. I think you got the right attitude. If your spouse is on board with you >> and feeling the same way you're feeling, then I'm with Ken. I think I would give this a hard hard 90 days.

See how much progress we make. See how good this works. I mean, you might look up and go, "Hey, man, we paid off, you know, 30,000 of the 40,000. Let's just we can run through this thing, >> you know, and by the way, you got 17 in the bank and Baby Step says you're going to take 16 of that and throw it at these credit cards anyway." >> So, that's going to move the needle, too.

>> Yeah. You start plowing through this stuff, you go, "Okay, living on less than we make is possible in America." Hello.

And so, he's now got 24 if he does what we teach. How quick can he pay it off knowing what you know?

Um, it'd be it'd be done in 90 days.

>> That's what I think, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. He could be done in 90 days with the credit cards by using the 16 off the credit cards. Yeah. I mean, off the savings account.

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Cliff in Austin, Texas. Hey, Cliff. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing all right. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, yeah. So, uh, um, I a apartment

complex that refused to negotiate with me when I got a new job out of state

from me to collections. Um, the only

>> because you broke because you broke the lease.

>> Hello. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Yeah, I'm still here. >> Yeah, you broke the lease, right?

>> Well, they wouldn't negotiate with me. >> They don't have to negotiate with you. You signed a lease. >> Okay, that's fine. That's fine. That's not what I'm here to talk about. Um, I'm here to talk about how uh how to move forward and uh hopefully you're willing to help me out with that. >> I'll try.

>> But let's establish that they're not legally obligated or morally obligated to let you do whatever you want to do.

Is that okay?

>> Okay. >> All right. So, what do you how much do you owe them?

>> Just under 6K. >> Six grand. And what do you make a year?

Uh, right now we are going back to

school. Um, the reason I'm doing this is because I now have a wife.

>> But she didn't answer the question. How much do you make?

>> Oh, right now we're in school. We're not making anything right now. >> So, zero dollars. >> How are you paying the current landlord?

>> Be we uh we have some money saved up.

>> Oh, good. >> We have We have We have a lot of money.

We have Yeah, we're we're we're in good hands. Um the re the reason that this uh

the reason that I moved, you know, I moved for a new job that paid better than what I was making and they just didn't really want to work with me. Um

so I just didn't

know. And now that I have a wife because

I was single at the time. >> Mhm. Um, >> so how much how much money you have saved, honey?

>> Um, we have an emergency fund of 12K

>> and we have uh more than 40K. I won't go

into the exact number.

>> Okay. Well, nobody's going to come get it. It's okay. Um, not from here anyway.

Maybe from the landlord. Uh, what state was the landlord in?

Um, I'd prefer not to say.

>> Well, it matters because the ant I can't help you, honey. We're just going to move on. This is just bull crap.

Miranda's in Raleigh. Hey, Miranda.

What's up?

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good. I listen to you guys every day. So happy to be here. Thanks. >> Um, so I just have a quick question and

it's about I don't know whether or not I should ask my boss for a raise. I don't know how to bring up the conversation or if it should even be brought up. I keep getting mixed messages from like friends and family. And I guess the reason why I

want to raise is I joined the company a little under a year ago and they basically just changed the scope of the role. So I just feel like for the pay and the scope like it's just not lining up anymore.

But again, I got people talking in my ear saying, >> "Yeah, okay. Good question. Very good.

Stop listening to all the friends and family. Okay. So, we have to logically walk through this and then we have to validate uh your feelings.

>> Okay. How did the scope change and be very specific? In other words, did it increase the amount of work? Did the u

uh job description itself change? Give me a quick summary.

>> Basically everything. So, I joined I'm in sales. So when I joined the company,

they had me as an account manager working underneath the territory manager. So the scope of the role in terms of what my territory would be and the amount of travel and things like that. >> So more territory, more travel.

>> Yeah. They basically when I joined one of the territory sales reps retired. So

three weeks in basically just bumped me up into that role. >> Okay. What is your current comp?

>> What's your current comp structure? Is it base plus commission?

>> It's base plus commission. Originally, when I joined the company, it was based with a set amount of commission. It was like a $500 just monthly flat. And when

I moved into the new territory role, I

asked them about salary. They told me basically nothing changes on the base, but the commission structure would change. I'd be able to get more money on that end. >> How has it changed? >> But It honestly hasn't changed too much. Um, the commission did almost right now it it is usually anywhere from like 8 to 1,400 extra a month >> is that which is the 500 before.

>> Is that capped? >> But it is not capped. >> Okay. So you even when I've brought up salary negotiations and stuff like that, they've always told me, well, hey, if you're doing new business, you'll be able to grow that commission and that's where you'll see the increase. >> So, so I'm completely objective, okay?

And Dave comes from a sales background.

So, what I'm hearing is opportunity. And I'm hearing pretty standard language here in a sales role that they're not going to bump your base. Uh, but if they don't limit you from a commission standpoint and they've increased your territory. So, the real question I would want to know, and for sake of time, you don't have to answer it, but you need to know what your potential commission could be based on some previous numbers.

You had a person just retire in that role. I'd want to know over the last five years, maybe seven years, one year.

What did that person make? What was the total commission? You got to be dealing in facts. And right now, you're dealing in feelings. And I understand the feelings, but um I don't recommend you go in and ask for a raise. No. in less than a year in this scenario when you've effectively been given a chance for a raise. Dave, am I missing >> the raise your raise is effective when you are.

>> So when you go make more sales, you're going to make more money. That's what they told you. And that's not a bad thing at all. Matter of fact, sales people make more money than just about any other role in America today if they're not in a situation where they're trapped or have some kind of a ceiling on them.

It doesn't sound like you do here. the only ceiling is your effort, your ability, uh the hours in the day, the logistics of getting to the customer, all those kinds of things.

Cuz I mean, if you went and sold a whole, let's say you doubled your sales, you'd be making a couple grand a month plus your base, wouldn't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Can you do that?

>> I can. I mean, I I think I can. Yeah. Is

there anything that the company is doing that's Is there anything the company's doing that's keeping you from doing that?

>> No, I do think when they switched me into the territory role, the the territory I took over is much further away. So, my biggest thing I've had is just time management with now the new commute and the new area I'm over and just time management on that end. But there's definitely opportunities.

>> Okay. So, here's what I just heard.

>> Yeah. So, here's what I just heard.

Thanks for sharing that. Here's what you're dealing with. You're dealing with expectations have been shifted. And with the expectations being shifted, it has inconvenienced you. And the inconvenience is a real emotion. And you're going, "Well, compensate me for making me travel more." Do I have it about right?

>> A little bit. And I guess too, I know this is so bad to not talk about other people's salaries and things like that, but I just know from like the account managers versus the territory managers, there is a big jump in the base salary.

So, I guess I get, I guess, emotionally held up. >> Are you a territory manager?

>> Yeah, >> now she is. Okay. Are you getting territory manager base or account base?

>> No. >> All right. Now, that you can bring up.

>> That's a valid thing. Go. Okay. Hey, listen. You move you move me into a territory. You move me into a territory and I'm willing to eat what I kill.

>> Thank you for moving Thank you for giving me this opportunity. But also, I understand that territory managers make a different base and when you move me to that, I I'm I don't understand. Would you please explain to me why I didn't get the increased base? That's a fair question, but that's different than slamming your fist on the table and demanding a raise.

But, you know, that last little thing you gave us was a gamecher. Okay.

>> Yeah. I think you have to sit down and ask them, "Hey, listen. From what I understand, now again, posture is everything here." >> Okay? There's no need to create tension.

And you can create tension with a leader really quick because we don't know if they're a healthy leader. We don't know if there's some limitations. We don't know that. So, the advice has got to be, I'm going to sit down and ask, "Hey, I understand that this is true. Is this

true?" It's a question. I'm not telling, I'm asking. Then, if they say yes, this is true. Then you can say obviously if you were in my shoes you'd probably wonder is that going to happen and and why isn't it happening or when can it happen? These are these are good question >> under what circumstances do I start earning territory manager base >> after you made me a territory manager?

>> Yeah, >> that's a fair question. That's right. Yeah. And I would want to ask that.

>> By the way, if the answer doesn't make any sense, there's your sign. It's probably time to start making plans to go somewhere else. >> Yeah. Yeah. not going to work out for you there cuz they're they're they're messing you over at that point. But yeah,

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Josh is

in Detroit, Michigan. Hey Josh, how are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so calling relating to my dad. Um

he's 62 and about a month ago had a

conversation with him about retirement and where he was with that. Uh, and I found out that he has a little over $3,000 to his name right now in a checking account. Um, and he makes good

money at his job, makes over 100,000 a year, but he has really high expenses and recent medical debt has wiped out a lot of his savings. So, my questions relating to how can I help him start

moving towards uh realizing an actual retirement in a timely amount of time?

Mostly it would be coaching him, right?

That's what you mean by help, right? Showing him some things to do. Number one, why did medical debt wipe out his savings? Did he not have health insurance? >> Uh, he does, but he has he has a chronic

health condition and so his deductible is really high and he has to he's had a

couple procedures over the past couple years that he's had to pay out of pocket for because his deductible didn't cover all of it. >> Well, now after the deductible, then co-pay kicks in.

Uh, yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know the specifics of this. >> Well, that's how insurance here's how insurance works. The deductible, you pay 100% of the bills until you meet the deductible. After you meet the deductible, typically it's an 8020 after that. They pay 80% and you pay 20%.

And so, do you have any idea what his deductible is? Like 10 grand or something? >> Yeah, it's it's pretty high. Something like that. >> Okay. So, so he's gone through 20 grand by meeting the deductible two different years. And then he had a procedure beyond that that he owed 20% of that procedure and

that took some more money. Maybe another 10 or 15,000 we'll just call it. So maybe he's gone through 30 or $40,000.

So he still didn't really have any money. >> Right. >> Right. I mean he didn't he didn't go through 200,000 bucks. He went through 30 or 40.

>> That's correct. >> Okay. All right. I'm just making sure that we get the the table set here. So he's worked all his life and he makes six figures and he's saved no money is what we're really dealing with.

Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. And um so is he single?

>> Yep. Yeah. My parents divorced a few years ago, so he's been on his own for a while. >> Okay. Well, if he called us on the air, we would say, "Get on a detailed written budget and pile cash. You make a hundred

grand." Well, my expenses are high. Cut your expenses. You're living too high on the hog, as we say in Tennessee. M.

>> So, what is his stinking expenses?

>> Uh, from what I know and he's shown me, he pays about 4,000 a month in expenses.

>> Okay. Well, he makes 8500

or 8,800.

>> Okay. >> So, yeah, that's part of my dilemma is I don't know where >> Yeah. >> I I don't know where the money's going.

>> He doesn't either. Okay. So that that you know, so if you took over a company that was bringing in $100,000 a year and spending $48,000 a year and they didn't know where the other money was going, the first thing you would do is they need a better system, right? They need to know where their money's going. And so if you're going to coach him, he needs to know where his money's going. And if he doesn't pay attention, he's going to retire and eat alpo.

>> Yes. >> It's time to get your crap together. You're 62. You probably got 10 years of good hard work to do. and he could pile up several hundred,000 in the next 10 years making a h 100red grand by managing very very carefully he could have a decent nest egg at retirement.

>> Yeah, there the a second part to this as well uh if you have the time for it.

>> Okay. >> Uh he was recently involved in a real

estate deal that went sideways and uh there's an chance he could be looking at a judgment payment to a bank of around $500,000.

Well, that will bankrupt him.

>> Yes. >> He hasn't he hasn't seen $500,000 ever,

>> right? >> And so the only chance he's got there is to negotiate down. And um Did he have partners in that deal?

>> Yes. He was one of five partners.

>> They didn't have him signed up because they thought he was going to pay.

>> They had the other guys signed up because the other guys had assets.

They're not going to bother your dad.

Yeah, >> they're not. I mean, there is zero chance they're going to get any money out of your dad. Zero. He has no money.

And if they start putting lean on his stuff, he'll just file bankruptcy. They know they're not going to get money out of him. And by the way, they knew that when they got his signature cuz he was already a broke guy then, >> right? >> So they they must have been leaning on someone else's asset base to make this loan.

>> That's correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. So they're going after the they're going after the rich guy, not the poor guy.

That's what they do.

>> I'm not going to bother your dad. That's that's a waste of paperwork.

>> Yeah. If they don't pursue him heavily is he shouldn't declare bankruptcy then.

>> No, he doesn't file bankruptcy on what might happen. >> Okay. >> If he has $200,000 saved and they're going to come get that, we'll have to talk about what we do. But he doesn't have any money today.

>> And so what I'm going to do is not worry about that. I'm going to put that on the shelf and let it sit over there and cook. and I'm gonna get my crap together and start stacking cash and building get with a smart investor pro and let's get this stuff filled up and get your expenses cut and quit spending money like you're in Congress.

You know why he did the real estate deal? Because he was desperate and scared and thought he was going to retire bankrupt.

>> Yes. It was a Hail Mary and >> Exactly what it was. It's exactly what it was. It was a move of a desperate man.

And so let me get let me stop doing desperate things and let's start doing steady things. Steady steady steady steady. The tortoise wins the race, not the hair. >> Yeah.

I just would encourage you, Josh, this is going to be really hard to hear and even harder to do. At some point, you're going to have to talk to dad and see if he's willing to be guided or coached by his son. And if he's not, you're going to have to put up a boundary there. And it's going to be really, really hard.

And the reason you're have to put up a boundary is because you can't make your dad do anything.

So, I hope that doesn't happen. but super clear in your heart and your desire to help. If he doesn't receive it, you're going to have to put up a boundary. >> Yeah. So, mathematically, your dad has the ability to build a nest egg by 72 that's pretty substantial.

But 62 years of sucky habits are in the way, >> right? >> So, is he going to trans is he going to look in the mirror and go after 62 freaking years, I'm going to grow up or not? And that's not up to you. Is Ken's point, that's up to him.

Yeah. Yeah. I need a come to Jesus moment. >> Yeah. He He does. Not you. By looking in the mirror and going, you're the problem.

>> It's not somebody Nobody took advantage of him. And it's not medical. That's not the problem. None none of these excuses are the problem. The problem is you make a lot of money and you piss it away

and it's got to stop. And that's that's what it comes down to. Now, you don't want to say that to your dad, but that's what it comes down to. That's the math that we've got. And fixing the math is easy once the human being starts to get their crap together. >> But the humans are now the humans, they're an issue. But the math thing, it's pretty easy. So, but we say it around here all the time. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head

knowledge. The problem with my money is the guy in my mirror. If I can get him to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he likes donuts. It's a problem. And

that's an issue. So, I mean, but it's a behavior thing. It's not a It's not It's not a lack of knowledge. It's not a lack of ability. It's not Guy makes 100 grand. It'll do it. The donuts are good, though, Dave. They're really good.

>> Shut up, Ken.

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Elizabeth is in Washington, DC. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing well.

>> Good. How can we help? >> So, I'm flinging in I'm I'm 38 years old, a single mother with two children, and I'm feeling stuck financially. I have about $90,000 in student debt,

$9,000 in credit card debt, and I can't seem to get past baby step one. I'm

thinking about making a hardship withdrawal from my retirement account to buy a multif family home to start generating some income and like build stability for my family. I want to get out of debt, save and invest, but I I just feel stuck.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> I don't know what to do. >> Yeah. Well, that move is not going to bring you stability. That move is going to destabilize your situation. and it's going to have the opposite effect of what you're hoping for. Um, so no, we wouldn't do

that. What do you make?

>> I bring in roughly around 160k a year.

>> Okay. And on 160,000 with two kids. Why

can you not reduce debt?

>> There always an emergency that happens.

Again, a single parent. I have no other

um >> give give me an example of a $60,000 emergency.

>> I I had to have um a medical procedure

done last year that it was a real

financial blow for me. It wasn't 60,000, but it was in the thousands. Just my

monthly bills alone um take about half

my take-home pay.

Well, where's the other half? >> A month. >> Where's the other half go?

>> I have a a lease on a vehicle. The insurance where I live is also very high. >> Okay. So, how much is your car lease?

>> My car lease currently is um $600 a

month. And the insurance for it is about >> $340 >> a month as well. >> Okay. All right.

Well, that's $7,000 a year.

Okay. It's probably closer to 10 with the insurance. Okay. But you make 160.

How much is your How much is your apartment rent or your house rent?

>> It's 1,800 a month.

>> Okay. All right.

Okay. So, um I don't know where the money's going, but you don't either. After

talking to you, you still have not given me any numbers that sound anywhere near like $160,000.

Okay. There's nothing here. There's nothing here that says you can't do this debt reduction idea. I'm making $160,000 a year. But how how long have you been a single mom?

>> Um, it's been around four years.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, having having worked with uh

for 30 plus years, almost 40 years now, doing this, um what I run into with people that go through a divorce is it takes it rips your heart out. It ups uh

turns the whole world upside down and there's a certain amount of um emotional

paralysis that happens because you kind of lose your confidence, you lose your swagger, you feel desperate and stuck.

And then you just that gives you an

excuse to not manage 160,000. Well,

it gives you it's a reason that a valid

not a valid reason, but it's a reason that people because emotional recovery after going through a divorce and trying to run a household with two kiddos. How old are these two kiddos?

>> My youngest is 13 and the oldest is 21.

>> Okay. Is the 21-year-old supporting themselves?

>> He is working. Yes.

>> Is he supporting himself?

>> No. >> Okay. It's time he did, young man.

Help him with that, Mom. Okay. You

cannot carry a 21-year-old.

Number one. Number two, I need you to get the Every Dollar app and download it. I'm going to give you a free uh

trial on this thing and let you get started with it. and it's going to coach you and show you exactly what to do. But

I think that you can make substantial progress in one year. I don't think you're going to be debtree in one year, but you are spending some money somewhere out of grief um out of um

uh I don't know, emotional sav.

And that's okay cuz you've been hurting.

You've been through hell and you're trying to figure out what to do next and all that. But you, the good news is you don't make 16,000. You make $160,000

a year. Your rent is $1,800. Your car payment is 600. That's only 30,000

bucks.

Okay? And that's that's shelter and transportation. We got to buy some clothes. Some clothes, not much. You already probably got a bunch. And we got to buy some uh electricity and some water. And that's it.

And then you got to get in attack mode.

>> Yeah. I just from all the experience that we've had and this is a privilege to sit and help people. But Dave, I have a sense here in this situation that what is presenting as an emergency at times.

Now, this is notwithstanding health and an HVAC system going out in the middle of the summer or the winter. Okay. But some emergencies, Dave, feel like emergencies and they're just emotional emergencies. They're not actually emergencies. And I know you've seen that a lot and I think you touched on it with being a single mom. You got a 21-year-old. I I suspect had we had time

to ask, give us five more emergencies that have popped up recently.

>> They're all under 10 grand. >> And they're all emotional emergencies.

They don't actually have to be spent on.

And I I I just think you have to be careful there that I think there's a lesson in there sometimes. >> Well, when you're tired and when you're grieving, you're you're not making good decisions. >> Exactly. And when you're not living on a detailed plan that holds you the numbers of the the app, the Every Dollar app will hold you accountable >> for doing this stuff. You've got to do that, honey. I'm going to give it to you and I want you to get started on it today. But you have enough money coming

in to where you should be making substantial progress. If you're not debtree within 18 months, you've done something wrong. You should have all of this paid off in 18 months. You may need to get rid of this stupid car. Yeah, you may need to do some other stuff, too.

But you got to quit buying stuff. And an

emergency withdrawal to go buy a freaking multif family. That sounds like you've been looking at something on TikTok. My god, this is the worst idea

I've heard and I don't know when. Do not do that. It's not going to do anything except get you more in debt and more problems and you got less emotional bandwidth than to work on all this. You have got to tighten up your life and make the money that you this incredible income that you make.

You've got to make it behave you. I want you to develop a sense of disgust >> that I'm not getting any more use out of $160,000 than I am. I've got a little sense of disgust about it. So, I want you to develop it for you.

win. I want you to have a good life. I want you to have some margin, have some wiggle room, but you're going to have to go take it back by the throat. It doesn't move until you take it by the throat and make it behave. Money will not behave unless you force it to. Money

will just wander off and go to people who are making it behave.

It leaves people who don't make it behave and it goes to people who make it behave. It's a natural flow of life. And

so, you've got to take this by the throat and shake it and just go, you are going to do what I say to do. I am in

charge of you. Yeah. And when you get this attitude, this swagger about it and you start taking that Every Dollar app and squeezing these dollars and making them win, um, you know, it's pretty serious. So, what are we talking about here? We're talking about $14,000 a month income.

Wow.

That's a lot.

That's a lot. You can do this.

Heat. Heat.

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might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Isaac in Nevada. I'm 2 years out from retiring. I'd like to know the best strategy on how to start withdrawing funds from my 401k. Do I change the dividends to not reinvest? Is

there a certain percentage that's safe to withdraw every month or year? And if so, how often should I withdraw? H okay.

Well, um what I would do is sit down with your financial planner, your smart investor pro if you have one or your advisor, and help them have them crunch some numbers with you. Um the stock

market has averaged 12% 11.8% since it

began.

Okay, inflation has averaged for the

last 40 years, 50 years, somewhere around 4.2%.

It's below that right now. Was above that during President Biden's tenure due not to President Biden, but due to inflation. I'll just make a comment and keep rolling. Protect him just a little bit there.

He got blamed for something that wasn't his. Anyway, but inflation comes and goes, in other words, and so do returns. Last year, you would have made over 20% on your money. The year before you would have made over 20% on your money.

The year before that you wouldn't have made that. So just go back and look at some of the track record on the market. Now if your funds are invested, figure out what they're averaging have been averaging over the last many years and what you think they're going to average. But let's just use some easy numbers.

are like mine and they're averaging around 12. Again, I made 26 last year,

but they're averaging around 12. Okay.

And inflation's four. So if I draw out

12, the value of my nest egg starts to

go away at the rate of inflation.

The math is all still sitting there. If I only pull off the income and I let the nest egg sit there, that's fine. But a million dollars 10 years from now, because of 4% inflation, it won't buy as much as it buys today. So, it begins to erode your purchasing power if you take out the full amount that you're earning.

Okay? Um, if you took out 8% and left

four in and it made 12, 12 - 4 is 8, you

would leave enough in to cover inflation and you'd be pulling off enough. So, your your million dollars would grow by 40,000, but the purchasing power would lose by 40,000. So you would break even on what it would buy because it'll take a million40,000 next year to buy what a million would buy this year if inflation's 4%. That make sense? Good.

Okay. So if you pull off eight or less,

your money is growing still more than or

equal to inflation and it would run forever if you're if that math is correct. Okay. Now that's assuming you're earning 12 and inflation is truly four average over years. So, if

you had a million dollars and you pulled off $80,000 a year, you'd be just fine.

And, you know, you could do that monthly, you can do it quarterly. Uh, but you can say, I want to pull out an average of X% of this nest egg. You can set it up at 60,000. I don't care. And leave a little more in there if that makes you nervous.

Um, you know what you don't want to do is draw out so much that you end up running out of money before your life is over. Hello. And so if you're making

uh if you're making 120,000 on your million this year and you pull out 150,000, eventually that's going to run into a wall if you live long enough, right? Because you're pulling out more than you're making. And so next year you're going to make even less because you don't have as much in there. You're killing the goose that's got that's got the golden eggs coming out.

So pull out less than the average that you project to earn by at least the rate of inflation. So what's your projection to earn and what do you think inflation's going to be?

A lot of people in the financial world say 6%. I'm comfortable with eight because very few people live outlive their money once they built a sizable nest egg. Uh now if you're starting with 200 grand it's different than if you're starting with 2 million too. changes the formula because if you whittle away at your two million and it gets down to only a million five before you die, oh well, you didn't kill anything, right?

No big deal. But if you if your 2 million grows to 3 million before you die and you live out of it, well, you leave a better inheritance is all. So, you kind of got to, you know, how much do you want to leave behind and gauge

that? It always helps too to know exactly when you're going to die. Then you can run the math.

>> That's true. >> That's helpful. Yeah, there'll be an app for that soon. I'm certain of it.

>> But that's how this works. So, uh, you will also find, my dear Isaac, that there's a lot of, uh, financial nerds out there that are complete freaks about this stuff that actually hate the advice I just gave you. >> This is true. >> They are very vocal about how stupid I am and how many people are going to die broke because of Dave Ramsey. I don't want you to die broke. I want you to get broke right before you die

because you've enjoyed the money, gave the money, uh done with the money what you wanted to do with it, whether it's an inheritance or something else.

>> Can we mess with the critics just real quick? Just for fun. >> Why not? >> Uh what are we talking Dave? 48 hour 72 hours broke right before you die

>> cuz you know they're going to come after you for saying that. >> You got to dial it in. You got to dial it in. You got to really know. So, >> but here here's the thing, too.

What ends up happening is that this stuff is not static. See, like last year

was 26%, the year before was 24%. Right?

>> And so if you're pulling off eight >> Yeah. >> you've got huge gains. You got a million dollars, you made $250,000 and you pulled off 80.

Now backtrack that math.

>> And that gives you a lot of pad for some years that have some down years and they don't quite earn eight. So most people

once they get to a million dollars worth of retirement savings and a lot of

people have in addition to other assets

then uh they're able to navigate their way through the next many years. So let's say this person is oh by the way 72 and a half you have mandatory withdrawals called required minimum distributions. What I'm giving you will beat that so you don't have to worry about it. And oh, by the way too, you got to pay taxes on this if it's a traditional 401k and not a Roth 401k. So

taxes come out of that 80 grand. That's $80,000 worth of income.

And so minus taxes, that's what you got to live on on that example. So that's

the way you can back into it and then play with the numbers back and forth. If you want to be a little bit more conservative, fine. If you want to spend a little more, that's fine, too. Um, most of the time I find though, Ken, it's hard to it's harder to get people to actually spend that have been savers.

Oh yeah. Yeah. We get a lot of calls here asking for permission to enjoy the money that they built up over the last 30 years. >> A lot of those calls. >> Yeah. >> And uh we want to give you permission.

We want to teach you to live like no one else. Sacrifice so that later you can live and give like no one else and be in a position that if someone you love is in trouble, you can just help them. Got the money? Shut up.

It's not a big deal. And so a lot of times, here's the thing. We find people that have been living on 60,000 bucks.

When I talk to them about pulling 80 out, they think they're in heaven.

>> It's true. >> You know, and so that that's more what we run into than some financial nerd on TikTok who's decided Dave Ramsey's good clickbait. All right, Jeremy is in Nashville. Hey, Jeremy. What's up?

>> How you doing, brother? I appreciate you guys taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so me and my wife are debtree except for our mortgage. We have our fully funded emergency fund and we're funding both of our retirements uh to the max that we can. So my question is we have a fair amount that we're saving every month right now. Is there a ratio?

We started doubling our mortgage last month, but I'm wondering if I'm putting too much towards my mortgage and not enough towards future cars, home repairs, that kind of thing. Is that a ratio you recommend? >> It's not a ratio, but I would run some numbers on the car repairs. I'd run some numbers on the car repairs and that kind of stuff. You you probably already got another 100 grand built up the way you're talking, don't you?

>> Uh, no. We had to do IVF our first year of marriage. We We're kind of late to the game. So, we're >> What's your What's your income?

>> Oh, probably 275, 300, something like that. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, first thing is I figured out what my income is and then from there the ratio doesn't matter.

What I want you to do is save just enough to take care of those items and everything else goes towards the car. I mean, everything else goes toward paying off the house. So, if you need to replace a car, you stop putting on the house, buy a car. If you need to go on vacation, you don't want to put as much on the house, put put on the vacation.

That's fine. But you need to be chunking on this house. Don't build up another side savings account of 100 or 200 grand. Get the house paid off, man.

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Walter is in Montreal. Hey Walter, how are you?

>> Good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so starting next week, um, I'm

eligible to, uh,

join my employer, uh, sponsored stock

purchase plan. I'm just wondering if that's uh something I should be uh

taking advantage of.

>> Well, I don't know the specifics of how that might work in Canada. In the US, it's typically a 15% discount.

>> Uh so, the way my company does it is, uh

they'll match up to the first uh $1,000

uh dollar for dollar.

>> Mhm.

And there's no there's no discount on the stock. You're just buying it at market value.

>> Yeah. And then they'll match it.

>> But no discount?

>> No. No discount? No.

>> Okay. No, I wouldn't buy that.

>> I would just I just put your money in good retirement investments and the equivalent of mutual funds or whatever you've got available to you that's along that. But um you're you're just buying stock that you just could have called your broker and bought. The only advantage gets a,000 bucks and that's not going to make a difference if the stock goes south. your stock could lose $1,000 in 20 minutes, you know.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, now I'll pass. I'll just go ahead and do traditional investing. And uh for those of you in the States, um where you have a 15% discount on a lot of these programs, it's they're almost all identical. Um what I always challenge you to do is go back and look at your company. It's publicly traded and look at the 52 week the last year

high on the stock and low on the stock.

It won't be unusual for you to see a more than a 15% swing during that time up or down. Meaning that the 15%

discounts isn't squat.

It's not enough to offset buying a bad stock.

And single stocks are much more risky than buying in mutual funds. If you put $5,000 over the next several months in a good mutual fund, you're in 90 to 200 stocks. If you put it in one company,

you are betting on one company. You're freaking draft kings, you're betting on one game, you know, uh, with your whole

deal and you don't have any control over

that game other than you work at that place and you really probably have zero

knowledge of what's really going on in the back room. So, um, I don't buy any

single stocks.

I did run the and one of the worst ones I ever ran into was years and years and years and years ago. I had a lady that was in her 70s that had um 950,000

and it was in her retirement. It was all in her company stock.

Big name company that makes a whole lot

of the items in your house, particularly

cleaning items.

It went down 38% in two years.

her nest egg that she had saved her whole life went from 900,000

to just over 600,000.

>> She was not a happy 76-y old. She was

pretty pissed, but she had bet the entire thing on one game, one name,

household name, but is a publicly traded stock. >> And so that's the risk you take. You avoid risk when uh or you you lower risk

when you spread out your money, diversify, not being all in one thing.

And so that's why I do that because I don't like the risk. I like making the money, but I don't like taking the risk.

I'm not looking for a big play. I'm looking to be the tortoise. Steady wins

the race. Emily is in Nashville. Hi, Emily. How are you?

>> Hi. Great. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So, my husband and I are in baby step three. Um, and we are also expecting our second son in May, so we're also in STO mode. >> Yay.

>> Trying to save all the money. Um, but we both are also driving kind of junker cars. And my car, uh, we just found out

this week, needs about a $1,500 repair.

And I only paid like $3,000 for the car.

So, it's like kind of a gut punch to think about paying half its value for another fix. Um, but with trying to

stock money away, I'm like, >> "What's wrong with the car?

>> The air conditioning is out, which is not going to work with babies in the Tennessee summer." >> Okay.

And the air conditioner on a $3,000 car is $1,500.

>> Yeah, that's what they're saying for parts and labor.

Um, we've had it looked at by a couple different uh auto places in our town.

>> Wow, that's unusually high. Okay.

>> Especially when the mechanic's sitting there looking at a hooptie >> and with a straight face going, "Spend, 1500 bucks to keep cool." I don't think

so.

>> Right. So, we are thinking >> What kind of car is this?

>> It's a 2010 Ford Escape. Oh,

okay.

Yeah.

All right. So, if you sell it without an air conditioner right now, what can you get for it?

>> Uh, I mean, we're we're probably looking at maybe $1,500.

>> Okay. So, you don't fix that car. Here's how you do the math on this equation. If the repair plus the value of the car is more or the

current value of the car, the broken car, if the repair plus the broken value

of the car is plus the repair is more

than the finished value after the repair, you don't do the repair. So, example here, you could get 1,500 for it as it is, but if I had got to put 2,000 in it, that's like having 3500 in the car. Okay?

>> And you could have sold it. I mean, and and you only you it's only worth 3,000 after you finish. So, you don't want 3,500 in the car. You take the 1,500, put it in your pocket, and you take the 1,500 you were going to spend, 1,600 on the air conditioner you were going to spend, and you buy another $3,000 car with that same amount of money.

>> Mhm. Yep. >> Now, don't do the pregnancy. I have to

upgrade my car because the air

conditioner went out. No, you just go buy another $3,000 car. And this time, don't buy an Escape.

Okay, noted. >> Yeah, this is a piece of crap of an automobile here. And so, um, yeah, I mean, get you something. Get an old beat up, uh, Camry that's got an old beat up,

uh, Honda Accord that's got a lot of value left in it. Okay. A lot of life left in it. Um, Escapes didn't have life when left in them when they came off the assembly line new. So, um, >> yes. >> Yeah. >> This is not the first problem we've had with it either. >> Yeah, I bet. So, yeah. But, I mean, these cars that have a reputation of running forever and ever and ever, that's what you spend a three, that's what you buy with a $3,000 car. It's a Camry, it's a an Accord,

uh, you know, for guys, it might be an F-150. I don't care. Buy something that's got, you know, that's got a lot of life. I don't care if it's pretty. I just want life left in it. We're not going for pretty at $3,000.

How much have you got in your STR mode?

>> Um, we're at $12,000 right now.

>> Good. And what's your household income?

>> Um, we're right at about $6,000 a month.

>> Good. And how much debt do you have?

>> No debt besides our mortgage.

>> Okay. All right. Then I probably would put a little money with this and move it up maybe to a $5,000 car.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I will tell my husband you told me to do that. >> Yeah. Because stork mode around here is

you're in baby step two paying off debt, but you're pregnant. So, we're going to stop paying off debt temporarily till the baby comes and pile up cash. That's what we call stark mode. But you're out of debt. This is just an emergency fund situation. And you have an emergency.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. But this is not an excuse to go buy a $25,000 car.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. With payments on it and go, "Well, I had to. I had a baby on the way." That's bull. Okay. You That's not true.

Okay. And that people do that. You know that, right?

>> Uh not us. >> I know. But you you you've heard of people doing stuff like that. If you listen to the show, they do it all the time. Okay. So, >> yes. >> Yeah. So, I I think you're I think you're incredible and um I think you're

very levelheaded, isn't she? This is amazing. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, this is there's not impulse here. This is a real situation.

>> Yeah. Very thoughtful. >> Hauling hauling around two babies in the Tennessee summer. Yeah.

Cuz we have humidity in Tennessee you can cut with a knife. I mean, you can set blocks of the humidity in the back seat if you want to. You know, it's like it's it's pretty ridiculous. You know, >> that is true.

>> It's like, you know, you know that feels like thing. Yeah. Feels like 500° cuz you walk outside and you're dripping. >> You can draw in the air.

>> Yeah. I don't I don't blame you on this. I'm with you. I'm I'm on your team this time, Emily.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. Amy is in

Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Amy. How are you?

>> Hello, sir. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

>> Uh, I wanted to see how can I create and

stick to a budget um after being laid off 9 months and my husband is self-employed.

>> Okay. Is that code for he doesn't make any money?

It's code that we cannot count on a lot.

I mean, you know, he's really trying.

>> I'm self-employed and I do okay. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

>> Yeah, he's a he's a plumber and um he's doing amazing job. It's just that, you know, lately the jobs were kind of like scattered. Not a lot of jobs.

>> Well, then he needs to go find a local plumber who's got a thriving business.

And that's just about every plumbing company that's been around. and he needs to apply because they've got more customers and more problems than they have plumbers most of the time and he needs to make a fortune compared to what he's making for somebody else.

And I'm talking tomorrow he gets her in his car. >> If he's not making a living to support his family as a plumber in today's world, honey, he's not working.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Um we've we've had several big

issues for example and that's why I'm actually super grateful that um you're on the show um with Ramsey because I know um you have other people also in the show but um I know you're a parent but I just love it because you're very fair and strict. So, um, our biggest

issue was I have a 24 year old who's not

functioning. Like, he dropped out of school in 10th grade and he's been doing substances for the last 10 years and, um, >> we've been we've been paying his rent >> and it's been crazy hard. Um, we're also

from overseas, so um, what country? I I

>> uh Romania. >> Romania. Okay, cool. Why have you not gotten a job for nine months?

Well, I worked in big pharma and I got laid off. It's been crazy to get back on the um on the market. I mean, I have LinkedIn. I have everything. And I've been told that a lot of people, very good people are um have been laid off.

>> What were you doing in big

>> uh project management? >> Okay. So, you know, I do project management. Why don't you do it for something else other than big pharma?

I I I tried I even um I even opened up kind of like a consultancy, you know, but um it's uh it's super hard to to get clients when people don't know you and um >> uh I >> Okay, let's stop. Okay, so there's there's three points that we can be fair and strict on. That's what you asked me to be. Okay, >> point number one is your family is

struggling with finances because of an income issue. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Is that true?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you need to call the 24 year old and say, "We can't pay your rent anymore. You're going to have to get a job and you're going to have to get clean, honey. We love you, but we your dad and I are starving to death over here and you're going to have to you're you're a grown man and you're going to have to figure out what to do. We love you. We're going to be cheering for you, but we're not giving you any more money. We don't have any money." Number one.

Number two, your husband either starts making a lot of money next month as a

self-employed plumber or he takes a job with a plumbing company because they will pay him a lot of money. It's that

is a field that is a field that desperately needs help. And if he can't make a living because he doesn't know how to get the clients and run the business part of it, but he knows how to do the plumbing part of it, there's no shame in that. But the shame would be if he continues to try to stay self-employed when he could go make three or four times what he's making now by getting a job like Ken said. And then the third step is we've got to get you employed doing something, Ken.

>> Yeah. I mean, again, as a project manager, forget the title of project manager at so and so pharmaceutical

company. What does a project manager do

and do well? You don't have to answer it, but you know what it is. What kind of skill sets do project managers bring to the table? Well, project managers are able to juggle a lot of different balls.

True or false?

>> Yeah. >> True. And then project managers are really probably good at communication and organization. True or false?

>> Absolutely. I speak three languages fluently. >> Boom. So, let's stop trying to play the big pharma game because we are seeing a lot of layoffs in big white collar jobs.

I'll go with that because there's some evidence of that. But that doesn't matter to what we're talking about. who in your zip code needs somebody that has

your skill set and you start going out and making connections, not applying online. We go we make a connection. I know somebody works on not going to do it. >> That's right.

I They need an office manager. You go, "Well, I'm a project manager." Well, you're a project manager has been out of work for nine months and you're broke. So, what you can do is go, "Hey, I've been a big-time project manager. I'm dealing with a kid who's got substance abuse issues and he's and it's been hurting us and so I'm getting back in the game." There's a story there.

There's a narrative that people will say, "This is a mama bear who's who's got to make money and she got laid off from a big-time company. Happens every day. No shame." And so, this is what you do. You forget about what you did in the past.

And what companies would be thrilled for you to walk in off the street with your skill set and experience?

>> A lot of them. >> A lot. And I gotta say this one more time. We just kind of You kind of glossed over what I said.

I I rarely disagree with Dave, but I don't think your husband waits a month. I don't think he's a good business guy and I and that's not a a negative. I'm just I'm not a I'm not criticizing, but I don't think he knows how to run the business. Number two, he's hurting just like you are with this kid.

And I think he needs the safety of just showing up every day and turning the wrench and fixing plumbing problems and getting paid top dollar. So, I wouldn't wait a month. I think he's getting in the car and he's driving around construction sites all day. If I were in your area, that's what I do.

>> This is not necessarily a job for his plumbing company. A job for him to quit owning a plumbing company and become a plumber for someone else. >> That's right. He has his tool kit in the car with him. >> I'm ready to start today. >> Yeah. and and you know you guys but doing um him making onethird of what he

should. >> Yeah. >> The 24 year old siphoning off what little you have coming in and you making nothing >> while shooting for the stars >> is killing y'all. >> Mhm. >> So what what we're saying is is it's not necessarily what you're going to be doing 10 years from now. That's right.

But for today, all of you raise you two

raise your income and lower your outgo.

That's right. By cutting the 24y old off and well, he's going to Well, he's going to he quit, you know, quit doing the substance. I mean, lots of 24 year olds face this and don't have parents that bail him out. Happens every day.

And sometimes that's the very thing that helps them turn their life around >> and say, "Here's here's a here's a coach you can go see. Here's a counselor you can go see. Here's a homeless shelter for you to move into. Um, we're we're cheering for you.

We hope you get dry and you turn your life around and we love you. Uh but we're not giving you any more money cuz we don't have any money.

because I lost my job and your dad's business is not going well. So honey, I'm sorry, but you know, love does not

pay the bills in this case. You're going to have to pay your own. And so cut him

off. Have have a sweet conversation. I'm not trying to be angry about it, but this is you are not making him better by paying his bills when you're broke.

>> Mhm. >> Definitely. By the way, even if you're not broke, you're not making him money by paying better by paying his bills.

This kid needs some problems.

How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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It's like having one of us walking around with you on your phone going, "Do this." Now you do that and oh, you need to do this. Hello, do this. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Willis is in

Salt Lake City. Hi, Willis. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Dave, how are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> We have a quick question. My wife and I, we are in our 20s. We are completely debt three uh debtree. We're baby step 3B. Um we've been saving for the last about two years for our down payment of a home. We decided to go with a new build and we chose a seven-year ARM. Um

as they were having some end of the year incentives for quick moveins and uh we thought that would be a good idea. I kind of think I know what you're going to say. I have all the numbers and specifics of it, but we feel like it's going to allow us to ease into the home buying purchase and you know all the payments that go with it and we can afford it once it you know the seven years is up but we want to get your opinion on it.

>> You can afford it once the seven years is up.

>> What do you mean?

>> Uh for the first seven years we're going to have a lower rate. So the first year will be a 17. Yeah. Second year will be a 27 >> and then you know at the end of it it's going to go up um our payment and it's going to like plateau at a certain point >> but the first seven years they're kind of giving us a discounted rate so um we don't have to pay as much. >> Yeah. And 100% chance at the end of that it's going to be more.

>> Yes. Yep. >> All right. So you bought a house you couldn't afford?

>> No we could afford it. Yeah. It's actually quite quite in our budget. Um, >> I mean, if you took out a 15-year fixed, can you pay it?

>> Well, the 15 year fix would be uh 32% of

our take. >> So, you bought a house you can't afford. Okay.

>> Yeah. I mean, you called in here, Willis, knowing what I was going to say, right?

You've been here before. You've been listening for more than 20 seconds, haven't you?

>> For the for the most part. For the most part. We uh our goal and you know I've

heard a lot of finance guys talk about and spreading making the spread on the stock market and those sort of things.

Um you know we we plan on starting a family and you know the first-time home buyer and we thought that it'd be incentivized uh to have like that lower payment the first couple of years and use that extra money to pay towards the principal. Uh we plan to be super aggressive where we have that wiggle room to pay down the principal as much as possible and then refinance at the end of the seven years.

>> Well, that's assuming something doesn't happen that prohibits you from refinancing, in which case you get foreclosed on >> because you because you've added risk you've added risk to your scenario. And for 35 years, I've taken calls from people who things that they didn't expect to happen to them happened to them and they were unable to they were unable to refinance. And so, and you

can't pay aggressively on this.

Aggressively might be the emotion, but it's not the math because you don't even have the money to pay a 15-year. You don't have enough income coming in to pay it a 15ear. So, that mean tells me you can't pay you can't aggressively income. >> No, you don't. about it. >> You're 15 years, 32% of your take-home pay. >> Yeah, >> that tells me mathematically you don't have any money to be aggressive.

>> The aggressive word is an emotional word, but it's not a mathematical reality.

>> I guess the point um we we're looking at an income of last year where I I came home with about 180,000.

>> Looking forward to this year, I'm projected to make at least 260 and my

wife is not working right now. So we're going to very quickly double our income as this year. So >> assuming everything goes the way the plan of mice and men want it to go

>> the last two months or is the plan that the numbers that we're looking at, you know, we should be able to with this new year. >> Let me stop this. Okay. What is it that you want from me?

>> I guess your opinion have with the seven-year rate. >> I think it's stupid. >> Uh with our extra margin, it is stupid.

So should we should we cancel the loan?

You should you should have a 15 year you should have a fix 15-year fixed rate where the payment is less than a fourth of your take-home pay. I've said that like 9 million times on the show and

otherwise you're buying too much house

and if your income is going up so quickly and you're going to be so prosperous that should be no step for you. It should be no issue for you. But you rationalize the piss out of this man. I mean, you got rationalization down and you you've crunched so much math that your eyes are crossing. And it's wrong because what you're doing is with an adjustable rate is you're taking on more risk. And 100% of adjustable rate mortgages start in the hole. It's a

margin over an index. And the margin over plus the index is always more than the introductory rate, which means at the first point of adjustment, it's going to max. At the next point of adjustment, it's going to max. At the next point of adjustment, you've lost your dadgum job and the thing maxes and

you lose your house because all this prosperity that you projected as the only possible outcome in your life is wrong. Other things happen in your life and you've set your life up to not survive any storms. And when the big bad

wolf comes and he blows your straw house down, that's what's going to happen. I'm telling you to build a brick house. Be the pig with the brick house. Be the third pig.

And that's what we teach here. This stuff works in good times and it works in bad times and it's the only system that does. So you got man, please

rethink this. You ask me my opinion and I love you enough to tell you the truth.

I want you to win. I hope you prosper. I

hope you go make 160 and 260 and 360 and

460 and nothing bad ever happens in your life. But you'll be the first person I ever met that never had anything bad happen in their life.

Yeah, you're just you're assuming risk with the loan and then assuming that you'll have nothing bad happen in your life. And I understand it because you're in your early 20s, but you're talking to two older guys and honestly, you got more time with Dave on this topic than I think anybody else would get. You're very generous right now. I can't believe the call lasted as long as it did, but very generous. >> I I think he's got a good heart.

>> Well, of course he does. And and and I I'm such a math nerd. It's the same mistake I would have made at 24. It's the same mistake I did make at 24. Why would I freaking burn? >> That's the point. So, don't call somebody who's been doing it for four decades and who made the mistake himself and try to talk him into your version of it. You know, this is the thing. We don't know what we don't know when we're in our 20s. So, you know, yeah,

>> listen to wisdom and experience.

>> I I what I'm looking for after I went broke when I was 28 years old. I lost everything, Willis, because I was stupid and I assumed the mythology that everything was going to keep going like it had always gone.

And it never does. Things change.

And um the tax law changed, the banking

laws changed, the SNLs went broke, and

Dave was on the hook for something that couldn't possibly go wrong. Yeah.

>> Right. >> And it went wrong big time. A lot bigger time than even what we're talking about with you. lot bigger time. And um so

what I've learned is is that I'm looking for systems and elements of truth in my

marriage, in my relationships, in my money that work in

good times and they work in bad times.

>> Yeah. >> Because I'm going to have both. If it only works when everything's working, it's not the truth. It's a facade.

It's you're driving down the street and you walk through the front door of the house and you realize you're on a movie lot and there's nothing behind the front door. That's a facade. That's a fake truth. It looks like it's something, but there's nothing back there. And so I want to build my life after having gone broke and almost losing my marriage almost 30 plus years ago. And I want to teach other people as often as I can to build something that is the third pig.

Be the third pick. Be the brick house.

Take a little longer to build it. Buy a little less. Take a little more time. Be

a little more careful with the budget.

Don't try to be tricking everything.

Don't look for a shortcut. The only shortcut. There's no shortcut to any place worth going. And just take your time.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. And that's the basis for everything we teach on this show. If you want to do the hot and bothered sexy thing and go do it, all of you, you're not going to like it when you call in here cuz I'm going to love you enough to tell you the truth.

You know the one thing you missed?

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.comrealestate

on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions looking at us through the glass. Manuel and Aaliyah are here.

Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi Dave. >> Welcome. Where do you guys live?

>> Aenddale, Arizona. >> Very fun. Welcome to Nashville and all the way here to do a debtfree scream. >> Yes. >> I love it. >> That's true. >> How much debt have you paid off?

>> We paid off $320,000.

549. >> Wow. Good for you. And how long did that take? >> Eight years. >> Eight years. Wow. And your range of

income during that time? >> Uh we started around 103 and ended about

240. >> Wow. Cool. What do you all do for a living? Uh, I'm an accountant >> and >> I have a a small um rebar company. Uh,

we do swimming pools.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. Very cool.

Doesn't sound like it's too small to me.

>> Sounds like it's doing pretty good. >> It's growing. >> Yeah. You guys are making some money.

Way to go. You work hard, too, don't you? >> Yeah. Yeah. All the time. I try my best.

>> I bet. I bet. So, 320,000 8 years. And

in Arizona, I'm guessing you paid off your house. >> It includes our house, Dave. >> I'M LOOKING AT WEIRD PEOPLE.

>> YES. >> YEAH. WAY TO GO, you weirdos. A paid for

house. What's this house worth these days? >> Um, I'm guessing around 44 450.

>> Okay, very cool. Have you started retirement savings and investing?

>> Yeah, we have. >> How much is in that nest egg? >> Uh, around 300. >> 300. Wow. Okay, so already 750,000. How

old are you two? >> 40. >> 40 years old. You're on your way to being millionaires by the time you're 45 pretty easily >> hopeful. >> Very cool. Very cool. So, Manuel, how long ago did you start this business?

>> About uh we started at 2017, but um we

really started growing up like in 2021.

>> Okay. All right. Very cool. Very cool.

Now, what country are y'all from?

>> Mexico. >> Mexico. Okay. And how long you been in the States?

>> All All my life.

>> Okay. >> Me? 30 years. >> 30 years. Okay. Wow. Very cool. All right. Fun, fun, fun. Well, congratulations, you guys. It's the American dream, baby. It is.

>> You're going to be millionaires by the time you're 45. Your house is paid for.

You run your own business. You're making bank. You're working your butt off.

You're doing it. I'm so proud of you.

>> Thank you. >> What do you tell people? This the key to having a paid for house in Arizona worth

450,000 when you're 40 years old.

>> Um, like everyone else says, it's the budget. If you're not on a budget, you're not going to make it.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, >> that's true. That's true. >> We got to know where our money's going. >> Okay. So, whose idea with this? How'd this all get started with Ramsay stuff?

>> Uh, I was in Italy. >> The accountant, I'm afraid. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I was in Italy with my sister um vacationing and she's like, "You got to listen to this guy. He says not to use credit cards." I'm like, "What? You're crazy. I have to use my credit card. I need my points." So, um, that's where it

started. And then I got back, we ordered the book, and I told Manny, "We're going to do this." He's like, "Okay, whatever." >> You sound like you're pretty easy. Let's talk into this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, from the beginning, it took me a little while because I was spending a lot of money and I didn't know. >> I was just stopping at any store and whatever, spend money. But suddenly she hit me with um when I saw how much money

we were really doing and throwing away like most of it was going like we were not making any progress. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. And then um yeah 2020 we started

our business. Um and >> how many people working for you Manny?

>> Oh well right now we have six people working. >> How many have you talked into starting to do this since you started doing it? >> Uh two guys. >> I bet. Yeah. They're starting like, >> "Hey, man, you're not buying stuff at the market every day. What's going on, man?" >> Then then you got to tell them the story, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I told them that we paid a house and they asked me, "How did you do it?" And I tell them how how to handle

money like I try and then I put the show

you the D Ramsey show so they can hear.

>> Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Uh >> we also do um >> my espanol in Poco. So not not much help, right? We also coordinate FPU. Um, thank you. I work at St. John Paul II and they they lend us space to do FPU there. We do pass financi as well. >> Oh, yeah. Very good. Have you run into Andreas Gutierrez?

>> No, we've called him, but we haven't.

Um, >> yeah. >> So, he he's doing a lot of those lessons now, the old Pascin. Yeah, that's he's great. So, that's very cool. That that can help your guys working on the team for sure. Yeah. >> So proud of y'all, man. This is so great. >> Yeah. I'd love to know for our audience, 8 years is a long hall. That's a long

deal. So, I want to know what were the toughest moments or seasons and how'd you press through those?

>> Um, I think some of the harder parts

were like when our business was a little slower, like in the winter he wouldn't have a lot of jobs, so we couldn't really do a lot of progress during those months. But um in September we took over

a couple of other companies because one of the rebar companies um shut down. So we've gotten a lot of work since then.

>> Good. >> And that's that's really helped us.

>> So how what kept you focused? That's what I want to hear. >> Um I think just not owing anyone

anything. >> Yeah. You're playing the long game.

>> Yeah. >> If we're going to do all this hard work, we need to show have something to show for it, right? >> Yes. Yes. >> Good for y'all. If we live like no one else, maybe later we can live and give like no one else. >> Very cool. Very cool. Well, you guys are amazing. I'm very, very proud of you.

All right, one more time. You tell people the key is the budget.

>> Yes. >> And I guess you need a manny cuz he really didn't resist much. He just did whatever you told him to do, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. For the most part. There was some parts where he was like, "No, I work so I got to spend money." >> I was that kind of guy. Yeah. I >> It's different now. Yeah, >> that's good. Well, there's eight years worth of work there. That's good. Yeah, good stuff. Very proud of you guys. I'm honored to meet you. I'm proud. You're heroes, man. You're on your way to be a millionaires. It's very, very cool.

>> All right. Manuel, Manny, and Elia.

Eliah. >> I >> I'm going to mess it up. I'm sorry. From Phoenix, Arizona area. And who's this?

>> This is Yasmine. >> And how old is Jasmine? >> Uh, 14. >> Ah, okay. All right. Very cool. I Manny,

you need a gun. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. To protect her. I do.

>> Yeah.

>> All right, count it down. Let's get a debtree scream going.

>> 3 2 1

We're debtree.

>> Very cool. Congratulations you guys.

Very, very proud of you. Very proud of you, man. That's fun. Yeah.

>> All right, man. I tell you what. You start doing rebar, that's like work right there. >> Oh, I have >> Your back is hurting just thinking about it. >> This will shock you, but I have a little experience with rebar, Dave. My one of my college summer jobs. Very little, but it was a full summer working on a masonry crew. >> You did? >> I did. Now, I was the lowest man on the totem pole. >> I'm guessing. So, that time you carried that a while, you were even lower. >> Excelling

work. And here's what's fun about this.

They take over a company. So on this de journey, this is what's great. He starts a company and they keep going. They're slogging through it. And then an opportunity arises to take over a couple other companies. And he's on his way to creating a lot of jobs. And what's really fun, jobs for guys, they're going to eventually become debtree. Yeah.

>> And for entrepreneurs, if they can grab this, this is the other side of this deal. Debt-free entrepreneurship, solo

ownership. That's exciting stuff. And as you say, that's changing family trees right here. >> Yeah. Yeah. It changes everything. It's a completely different way of looking at things and and it's why you work so hard. >> Yeah. I mean, it's what why you get up.

I want to change I want to change my legacy. I want to change my destiny.

That's right. And that that's what those two hard workers have done. I'm really proud of you guys. >> Very very well done. That's very very cool. Wow. Well, and here's the other

thing. Our data says that if you come

here from a c another country le leg legally and and set up shop like those two have done that you're four times more likely to become a millionaire than one of us that was born here. >> Really? Yeah. Because the great American dream. >> Yeah. >> We're here to get it, man. We're here to do it. She's second gen.

>> That's right. >> But he's first gen. And uh that's the numbers tell us that. And so, you know, I believe it can happen. I believe it can happen. And that's why I came to America because it's the land of opportunity. And uh that's why it makes me so mad when some little snot on their

$1,100 iPhone is preaching socialism

because it's not the land of opportunity for them. Oh, you you found out there was work involved.

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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Our scripture of the day, James 1 and4.

Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. Thomas Edison said, "When you've exhausted all possibilities, remember this. You haven't.

I do like that. That is a that's a

definite Edison mindset, too, for sure." >> All right, up next is going to be Avery in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Avery. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my gift my parents gifted my two siblings and I $10,000 each to start a

family investment club and they're also adding an additional 10,000 so we'll have 40,000 all together. Um it's a small start, but we formed a corporation with four equal shares, all of our family members, and we'll be meeting quarterly to decide how to invest. And part of this plan really is just to learn how to work together financially as my parents have accumulated a really nice nest egg through rental properties and businesses. And we want to be prepared to steward that really well um down the line one day together.

Wow, that is a neat goal,

>> a neat reason for doing this. Um, it

does scare me a little bit, but it's a neat reason for doing it. It scares me because, um, you know, of course, you didn't have to put money into it. Your parents just nest egged the whole thing.

So, it's not you don't really have anything at risk personally >> um other than the fact that as soon as somebody said $10,000 is in your name, you emotionally take ownership of it.

But, um but it really I mean they they they set the whole thing up. That's a pretty cool um training wheels uh to get

you guys to work together. So, um,

well, I mean, I I I'm always going to go with the things that I live by and that we teach, which is I don't borrow money.

So, I'm not going to use 40,000 as a down payment on a rental.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um, and I don't do single stocks

um because of the risk. I do mutual funds. The problem with putting the whole 40,000 just in mutual funds, which is probably what I would do with it if it was my money, is it doesn't give you

any reason to work together because you just put it in there and forget it and then there's no reason to have a meeting. There's no uh >> no friction in the relationship that you

need to learn to work through, which is the reason for doing this is for someone to disagree about something, right? and we go, "Okay, how are we going to handle this disagreement?" And everybody gets a different vote and all of that. And so that only comes up if there's something moving around in the investments >> and uh so that it kind of defeats the purpose if you just plump $40,000 into a

mutual fund and forget it >> and let it and let it run, which is kind of what I do. Okay. I I don't that's kind of I mean I buy real estate that I pay cash for, but you're not buying real estate for 40 grand. So, um, you know, I

guess, you know, you you might be playing, um, some single stocks and get to have some healthy discussions around which ones to keep and which ones to buy. And, um, and if you blow the whole thing up, you just lost 40 grand. It's not the end of the world because the purpose of it is not as much turning the 40 grand into 400 as it is the learning

the learning that comes from everybody having to work together, right? So it might just be that I just start running a single stock portfolio. Although >> I I wouldn't do I need to say real loud and clear. I wouldn't do that as an investment. But this is not really an investment. This is a relational

exercise. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Like practice for what's going to happen in the future. >> Yeah. And and so you know, how do we make a decision about this piece of real estate after mom and dad are gone? Well, the same way we did when we were talking about these other two things over here four years ago, right? And right and so

that but there has to be some movement

in order for there to be a discussion.

>> Right. >> And and so you know that's what I it kills the so I don't think I'm going to use the investing principles although I

would not go into debt at all on this period. If they want you guys all to sign up for a mortgage, no thank you.

>> I'll pass. Okay. >> No, but but I guess it's a sing a small

single stock portfolio and you guys study and learn about each other >> in the buying and selling of some single stocks, I guess. But that's again that's more about the game than it is the actual investment. >> I actually think you I was leaning towards where you were headed and then you said it. And I think the best part of this is not just the practice and and

learning stocks and things like I think it's the research piece and then watch the siblings all of you watch each other who's who's a little bit more into the numbers who's got a greater tolerance for risk you know just it's a great learning experience for one day if you've got to work together on something like this that is far bigger and I think it's a wildly uh kind of fun experiment

as long as you're smart and savvy about it uh let it be a learning experience.

but learn not just about the money piece of it, but about each other. I I think that was a really great observation and I agree with that. >> That's why this is a fun exercise, not because of the investment aspect of it.

>> Yeah. But because it forces them to work together. I'm thinking about my three kids. >> Well, I was going to ask you about that because they're in the business here.

>> Yeah. And so, and they are all arguing about the operation of the business, you know, because they all sit on the operating board, right? and um even though Daniel is the president, but the other two, you know, are part, you know, they're functioning as owners together.

So, they're having that discussion. I've got a bunch of real estate. Rachel's husband, Winston, runs most of our real estate. And I can imagine that if we're not here that a lot of uh Winston's

brother-in-law or sister-in-laws or wife would defer to him >> on what they want, what the family want to do with real estate. They would consider him the expert >> because he is okay. And that kind of thing. So that that's the interaction and the the play. I guess we've accidentally done this.

>> Yeah. >> And but it wasn't with as much intentionality as that, which is very interesting. >> Yeah. >> Molly is in Nashville. Hey Molly, how are you? >> I'm well Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um well, I have a question. I have inherited a 160 year old home. Whoa.

>> Um that's located on our family's farm.

and trying to figure out how to navigate this um the renovations. Um whether it

be taking out a massive renovation loan

or to just go as I can. Um

>> how much in renovations need to be spent?

>> Between 250 and 300.

>> Okay. So, the home has not been maintained or updated for decades.

It It's livable. I'm living in it currently. Um I spent about 40,000 cash

in renovations for >> Are you the soul? >> That's last year. >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. All right. And how many acres is it sitting on?

>> Um the acreage is between my other

family members, but 70 acres.

>> Oh, so they don't they have the acorage.

>> Correct. But it's sitting on the farm.

How much acreage do you have?

>> Um, what's with this is three three acres. >> Oh, none. Okay. All right. Um, but

you're just surrounded by your brothers and sisters ownership.

>> That part of the farm, the I should get another 15 acres, but that has not been distributed yet. >> Okay. What is that worth?

>> Um, the home or the land?

>> 15 acres.

Well, right now the growing rate in Robertson County is about 33 35,000 an

acre.

>> Okay. So, a few of those acres were they

to be sold if you could put them in a way that didn't damage the family property off on one corner. You might

get a little bit there to fund some of your renovation.

If you sold a 5acre track in the corner, that would pay for a lot of your renovation, wouldn't it?

>> What's your household income?

Um, last year was 115 taxable.

>> Okay.

All right. And where were you living before?

>> Um, on on it's pretty much a family compound. >> Okay. So, you're living in a different propert on a different house within the property. >> Correct. Yes. >> But you didn't get that?

>> No. >> Okay. So, you don't have any other assets?

>> Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to cash flow whatever renovations I do here because an old house can be a black hole. It can be a money pit. Um they don't build them like they used to. Thank God.

And so cash flow it with the acreage sale or with your income is what I would do. Sounds interesting though. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 165. Take The First Step Toward Financial Freedom Today | April 23, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw.

taking your calls.88255225.

Let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Alyssa. What's up Alyssa?

>> Hi you guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. I appreciate what you guys do so much. >> Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's up? >> Okay, so um the simple question is we

are wondering, my husband and I are wondering if there is any way and how you might suggest the best way is to get out car lease early. Um we have no

consumer debt other than this um car lease which we refer to as our stupid tax. Um but we are um expecting a baby

and um just found out some early on and

just reevaluating our budget and um have known for a while that this Carly's you know wasn't the best decision but um are now at the point of trying to look into possibly getting out of it and just have no idea where to start.

>> Okay. Um how much is the lease? What do you pay every month?

We pay $4.99 a month and we have about

22 months left on um on the on the payment schedule. Um and the buyout amount is about 29,000.

>> Okay. Um and do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> We do. So um we do. We have about 15,000 liquid. Um but two things with that, you

know, one we are expecting and I am a high-risisk pregnancy. Um, and so we I

have type 1 diabetes, so there's just some interesting things with pregnancy there. And then, um, two, you know, we we do have of that 15,000, we have thought, well, if we are able to get out of lease, we'll need at least a portion of that to purchase a car. Um, so those

are kind of our only two thoughts there.

>> Oh, so if you if the only cash you have, is that is that is that basically your emergency fund right now?

>> That is. Yeah. >> Okay. So, if you got out of this lease, you'd have to take a chunk of that to buy a car for you and this new baby, right? >> Yeah. Correct. >> Oo. Well, let me let me put you on pause

for a second because the truth is you I wouldn't do anything today with this. You are in stor mode. I would not jump into uh that savings. You need it there.

That's cushion. That's for your peace of mind. Um and you've been paying this $4.99 payment. I'd pay it a little bit longer until the baby comes. When does the baby get here?

Uh good nine months. So we're we're brand new. Oh, it's brand new. Found out. >> What's your husband earn?

>> Um he is in sales. Um he earns about

safely 80. Um but you know, this past year was actually closer to 100. So um but safely, you know, 80,000.

>> And you're high-risisk. Are you able to work through the pregnancy or any portion of it? >> Yeah, I'm working. Yeah, I'm work I work from home. I work remote and I'm able to do that throughout the pregnancy. Um, our plan, our hope is for me to go part-time if the only thing that is preventing us from me going part-time is this stupid lease. >> God damn it. And And what do you make when you work full-time?

>> Uh, I make about 70.

>> Okay. Um, >> so we're just stacking cash right now. I mean, that's our plan. Um, yeah.

>> What other debts do you have?

>> Uh, nothing. >> Oh, that's the only debt. >> Sorry. Besides a mortgage. Besides a mortgage. >> Okay. So, is it possible that on 15 thou 150,000

you can cut back a couple of areas so that this uh paying this lease feels a

little more tenable and in the meantime you continue stacking cash whatever extra margin that you have because I don't like the idea of you going down to

no emergency fund and then feeling the

pressure of having to stack that up very quickly. Do you see what I'm saying? because you are going to have to get a new car if you do that.

>> Right. Right. >> And that's the part I don't like. >> One thought which I I have a feeling you're going to say, "No, we do have both of us do have Roth IAS."

>> It's not It's not desperate. You're not in You're not in a It's not desperate times, right? Desperate measures.

>> I didn't know if mine I mean mine we just have 7,000 in, so it's not a huge amount. So I didn't know if you'd say, "H good to just >> No, because it's locked in." Okay. it's locked in and by the time you take it out, uh, not only are you going to have to pay taxes and, you know, penalties on it, but yeah, if you just if you just up and pull that money out and take it out like a contribution, you're going to pay a 10% penalty.

>> Well, are you talking about just pulling out the money that you've invested, not the growth?

>> Yeah, I'm talking about the contribution, just 7,000 that we've put in my Roth IRA.

>> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. You could pull that money out and not have any anything attached to it, but I wouldn't do that for the simple principle of you're in a situation or a season of life where you're changing your behavior with money. And what that means is I'm going to start doing the smartest things as I possibly can with my money. >> Sure. Right. And so once you know the

information, just abide by it. Uhhuh.

>> So, last question. Is there a world in which you would suggest getting like a smaller loan like refinancing the lease or going to like a a credit union or something like that to get >> I'm thinking I was thinking about that.

But here's what I here's where you're at. You would still be >> out your emergency fund, right? Because you'd have the 15,000 and then we'd have to come up with another oh 9,000 to fill the gap.

>> Right. That's where we were thinking about the Roth, but you're saying no.

>> No. and that yeah, it doesn't solve your problem. My for me your biggest problem is you need cash when the baby comes and you need as much cash as you can because to your point >> it's not just the baby anymore. You're at a high-risisk status too. So I'd want if I were in your shoes, I'd want my deductible uh put aside, you know, I'd

want the family deductible put aside.

I'd want money set aside so if we need meals and extra help, you know, all of those things cuz you just never, don't get me wrong, I wish you nothing but the best, but you just never know how these situations go. or suddenly two months in you can't work. You're you got to go on bed rest cuz your your diabetes gets up.

So >> yeah, I I think Jade I think this is the first time I've in years of doing the show I've ever told somebody stay in the lease. >> Well, you at this point you have Listen, if you called me today and there was no baby, I would consider saying hey go down to the credit union, you know, get a $15,000 loan, you know, so that you have the money you can buy this thing out. Yeah, I would do that in a heartbeat. But even I'll be honest, even

with your numbers, it's it's close. And the reason I say it's close because I'm like, okay, you'd have to take out a $15,000 loan, then you'd have to turn around and take, I don't know, five or 8,000 more just to get a vehicle, and you'd end up at the same you'd end up pretty pretty close to where you are now. So, that's the only reason I don't even know that I would mess with it. I think that I would just start stacking up the cash to buy it out.

>> Yeah.

it's just this pesky it's just a lingering amount that we're just hoping to you know get rid of but that might just be our stupid tax >> and it I honestly it is because when you really run out the math on both sides it's it's not really worth it to go and get that uh loan from the credit union and then have to add more cash to it.

It's just at that point, I'd say, "Hey, just pay the thing off." Because here's the thing, in the time in this next 9 months, you're going to stack up a bunch of money. And as soon as this baby is born and everybody comes home healthy, you're going to completely buy this lease out if you want to. You might by then you might think, "Oh, well, we'll just run it out and then from there on we'll just buy a car." >> Yeah, we're going to turn it in and buy a car. Yeah, that's exactly our plan.

Yeah. >> Hey, it's a good question and I love that you're thinking about it. I would just take a chill pill, push pause for now, and uh get it rolling in 9 months

>> and never lease a car again. I know that's you already know that you >> It's the most expensive way to operate a vehicle, period. >> Yeah.

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All right, let's roll out to one of my favorite places in the United States, San Antonio, Texas. Man, they do queso

right. And let's talk to Harley. What's up, Harley?

>> Hey, John. Hey, Jade. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Uh, my question is right in your I think my questions right in your wheelhouse.

>> Perfect. >> Um, I'll just dive right in. Um, so I'm getting married to the love of my life in about 30 days. Gross.

And at which point >> I know, right? Um, so at that point, we're going to move in together. We're going to combine finances. We both want to combine finances.

We both want to be totally united as a couple. Uh I'm the nerd and she's the free spirit. Um so for myself and for everyone at home, could you guys just go over some of the reasons why we combine finances with our spouse? Some of those benefits that come with being united.

Um and then for myself, how do I engage her on this topic without sounding preachy and in a way that kind of excites her? Like how do we set these shared goals and run after them together?

>> Very cool. Um, the first thing I would tell you is there's some

there's some what I what I would call nerd work. There's some research data that some researchers went down the rabbit hole and trying to see if was there was there a causal or a correl

correlative link between couples who shared their accounts and couples who didn't. And not to our surprise, but to

surprise out in the world, there was couples who shared a single account were

forced to make planning decisions together. And because there was the artificial like uh

environment that was the research study, there wasn't a way out of it. So they'd agreed to do this. And so that forced them to sit down at a table and figure out what do we value? Organic foods or non-organic foods? um this kind of car, that kind of car, the the temperature at 78 or the temperature at 72, which is going to cost us an extra this much money every month. They were forced to have those kind of conversations that so many couples just blow by. And um

their relationship quality was higher.

And so I think the the in and of itself sharing the account that isn't the magic sauce. What's the magic sauce is it forces you to have big, real, authentic, deep conversations

about how y'all are going to do life together. And that leads to your next question. Um, the fact that you already have this level of self-awareness is pretty impressive. Most people call us seven to 10 years into their marriage and they're like, "We hate each other because he always tries to uh hit me over the head with his spreadsheets or, you know, she wants to look at spreadsheets and I just want to go, you know, buy Pokemon cards or whatever." And so the fact that you already know like, "Oh, I can I can be a lot with my spreadsheets and she likes to have really nice things all the time." Um, the fact that you already know that now, that's a good thing.

wisdom along and and I'll pass it along to you. He says, 'When you're when you're combining it for the first time and one of you is like a like died in the wool nerd and one of you is a free spirit, the nerd makes the first pass of the budget and then to quote Dave, they pass

it across the table and then they shut their mouth and they let their spouse

look at it and a there's going to be

what I would call principled things like, "Hey, you have $19 a week for us to eat on. Actually, I've been to a grocery store. Food costs $300 a week.

So, we have to adjust that. And so, there's the practical changes, right?

You have $9 a month for water bill. I like to shower more than 32 seconds. And you're like, we're we're nerd family. We can get done with showers quicker, right? And so, then there's a practical.

And then there's the, "Hey, what if we enjoyed our life, too? What if we lived?

What if we smiled sometimes?" And as a nerd, you're like, "No smiling, just savings." Right? And so it but it's it's

you saying, "Hey, I made a first pass at this, but your voice at this table really matters." And both of you have to practice letting each other speak up. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I uh I kind of figured maybe that would be a good way to do it, but I didn't want to come off as like here's my idea and what I think we should do and do you agree?

>> Well, and the conversation have a voice.

The conversation before that is you going first with I'm a nerd.

Would it be cool if I made a first pass at a budget and I'm going to hand it to you because I know I'm going to miss some stuff like joy and fun and laughter and meals and I want you to be fully at

this thing, right? And if she says, "Yeah, that'd be awesome." Then that that's fantastic. If you think she's going to look at it and she's already nervous to challenge you and she's just going to hand it back and say, "It looks fine." Um Dave would say I'll say she

has to change at least one or two line items. Like get in the practice of I'm gonna change something.

>> And that makes sense. >> You get in the practice of smiling and saying ah I'm glad I'm glad you I'm glad you're here, right? Not well I did the research and I you know that kind of thing, right?

>> Absolutely. Definitely.

>> What do you think, Jade? What am I missing here? >> I mean I think you're right. I mean, yeah, a lot of the data does show that the couples that combine their money, they just have a higher relational satisfaction. And I mean, I can tell you anecdotally, I really think it's because it's like that scripture, where your treasure is, your heart is there also.

And I think that when you combine money and you see people's spending habits and you see the things that they value and you see their little quirks, it causes you to get to know them better and you go, "Oh, okay. It's so weird that she like to your points. Oh, so weird she only buys, you know, uh the the the

national brand. She never buys, you know, the the knockoff brand. And then you can ask questions about that. Like you just get to know each other better.

You figure out this is what they value.

This is what they don't value. This is what, you know, is a trigger for them. This is not what, you know, this doesn't trigger them. I just think that that's such a cool thing to have from the very beginning. And it it it costs you nothing. Just just put your name on the account and then just let it fly.

Harley, have you ever Have you all ever lived together?

>> Uh, no. No. >> Okay. So, it's going to astonish you that what you used to accomplish with one bottle of multi-purpose soap. She

has 19 different bottles that do different things.

>> And don't question it. >> And you have you have one halfused tube of uh lotion that you got from a hotel once.

She's got 117 different lot. It's all like, right. But it's all these you don't even know, right? And um she's

going to probably want you to wash socks and underwear like after every time you wear them, right? And not once a month like you're >> used to grouped with the right colors, please. >> Exactly. So all all this stuff is like part of those. It's the conversations beneath the conversations that almost always go undisussed and it leads to her

going ugh gh and you going geez and then you look up and two years of gh and good

grief and one of y'all putting the thermostat up and the other one putting it down without telling the other person. It builds this the it it tills

the soil for resentment and having this

just having be just something as simple as ch is joining accounts man it changes your life I'll also say this you want to be a real gangster ask her if she wants to go ahead and keep her bank

>> interesting and why is that >> why not

>> why not I mean if you if you have a case for my bank is superior to your bank and what like so be it. But I'm just trying to think of ways that you could be extra hospitable in a situation where she already knows you're kind of the money guy and that's kind of your identity and you're kind of the kind of the spreadsheet bro. A way to come in and already say, "Dude, my whole life is going to be in service to you is, hey, I'm going to pull all my money out of my bank and I'm going to reroute my direct deposit to your bank.

>> Yeah, that's great. That's that's really insightful. It's just it's just little bitty stuff. You >> guys taking my call? >> Yeah, you bet, man. And when do you all get married?

>> Uh May 23rd. >> May 23rd. >> Y'all spending a bunch of money on it?

Is it going to be awesome? Big >> uh it's going to be fun. It's going to be nice. Uh we both have good jobs, so we're able to cash flow it. Um >> I probably would have set a lower budget if she was like, "Well, hey, we want to have something nice and we can." I said, "You know what? You're right. We can.

Why wouldn't we do that?" >> Dude, you're already you're already you're so far ahead of me, brother.

That's that's exciting. >> Good for you. >> But she's also I'd say she's the free spirit. She is very responsible.

She has good habits. It's not blowing things out of proportion. So, I think there'll be a lot of middle ground for us to be able to meet on and feel like we're both doing the right thing. >> I think you guys are going to be just fine.

I think you're a good guy. I think she's a great lady. And this is going to be good.

and you get to build the trust of saying, I do what I say I'm going to do and my spouse does what he says he's going to do. And that is like relational equity that is so so powerful on down the line. And it's not just with money.

It shows up when you face other hard times. You know, you can depend on each other and you know you can trust each other. And that is just one of the many non-financial benefits of combining your finances.

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>> Hi. >> How we doing? >> Doing good. How are you today? >> We're doing great. What's going on?

>> So, I've been working through the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two. And I'm really proud of the progress I've made. I actually keep the quote live like no one else now so you can live like no one else later in a couple places just so that like I stay focused on my learn long-term goals.

>> Awesome. >> But lately, I've been struggling um with

feeling like whether it's worth it. Um, I'm a single 30-year-old with no kids.

Um, and it's just starting to feel like I'm constantly missing out. I'm saying no to friends, family vacations. Um, you

and I'm not putting myself in spaces, right, where I can meet people cuz I'm not going out and it's just it's getting really lonely. Um, so >> how much do you have left?

>> Um, I still have about 60K in student

loans and then I'm working on my car payment now, which is sitting at about 10. So about 70 altogether.

>> How much have you paid off so far?

>> I was at 120 when I started.

>> Wow. Way to go. >> You're halfway home, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much time? Like what's the timeline on this 70,000?

>> Um I probably should sit down and like remap that out. Yes.

>> Um because I haven't um done that for a while now, but I am on year two

>> of like working this program.

>> Okay. So, I love this question. Um, and

hopefully I can say something that'll that'll encourage you. So, my husband and I, our timeline was 7 and 1/2 years of paying off debt. Now, granted, we were married and so I had somebody to kind of, you know, look over to when I was fall. Yeah. Somebody to lament with.

Um, and yours is a little bit different, but you can find that person. I think that person's out there. Um, but a couple of things that I just want to throw out there to you. Number one, you got to know a timeline.

I think for you, even if it's shifting and it's not the same as it was, I think every once in a while looking up and recalculating it and reccalibrating it, that just does so much for you. Anytime you can recalculate numbers and it looks a little bit better, that's going to give you a little bit of a boost. Even if it's just a a little bit, oh, it's 3 weeks closer than it was. Um, I think that you need to sit down and do that tonight.

slightly rev up that that that timeline

so you calculate it out and you're like, "Oh, man." and then you you say, "Well, what would happen if I, you know, added a little side hustle on Saturday?" And then suddenly you see the timeline go down a little bit. So, I think you could really use um uh the motivation that

that brings. So, that's thing one. Um,

and I do think that you also in that you need to carve out a couple of milestones that you can build some rewards around because when you're in this thing, the average person, John, when they walk the baby steps, they are out of it in 24 months out of baby step two. That's kind of like on average, it's like a two one and a half to two year sprint. When you're one of these people like Chelsea or like me or John, I don't know how long was yours. >> Well, I was an idiot so it was a long time.

But my point is when it's when it's longer than that one and a half to two year sprint, when you're getting into four, five, seven years, >> it's a beating. >> It's a beating. And honestly, it's not good for your mental health to say, I don't do anything. I, you know, I don't go inside of a restaurant.

I don't do this. So, if you're a person who's beyond that timeline, you need to be thinking like for Sam and I, it was like, "Okay, after a certain point, we were sleeping on an air mattress for so long, we're like, "Hey, we're 4 years in, we're buying a mattress and we're buying a bed and for for crying out loud, right?" And then there was a uh I think at the six uh the six-year point, we needed a new vehicle and so we stopped paying off debt and we bought another vehicle. It was, you know, cash flowed and it wasn't, you know, overly priced.

But when you're in a longer stint, you do have to be very intentional about planning.

to do something to keep myself going. At some points, maybe it's a pizza. At some points, maybe it's like I'm just going to like uh drive to the beach and have, you know, have a good time and I'm not going to stay more than one night in a hotel, but I'm also not going to take a flight right at your fourth year, right?

So, I want you to hear me on that because at that point, yeah, you're not going to John, you don't disappear from society for 5 years, >> right? And and Chelsea, you called something out that's it's I think it's really important and I'm challenging you, but I want to I'm challenging you like on your team. Does that make sense?

>> What does saying no to everybody and

everything? Tell me more about that.

So, okay. Most recently, I'll say I feel

like I'm kind of like failing in my friendships where they'll be like, "Oh, I just need like a girls night. Like, today was just so hard. Like, can you know I get all my friends together and they want to go out for the crib?" And

I'm like, "No, I can't, you guys. It's not in my budget." And so, I feel like I'm failing in my friendship.

>> Okay. So, I This was like a big eye opener for me when I'm in I'm in the same spot you are. Now granted, like like Jade, I was married and so I had someone to be sad with, but I had some

buddies who were when I say light years ahead of me financially, I mean comically light years ahead of me. I was there like it it was brutal.

>> But we just started like Monday or Tuesday nights. It we everyone would just clean out their fridge.

And so I had some of the wealthiest people I knew at the time bringing over half eaten casserles, a bottle of wine with like half of a glass left in it.

And those ended up being magic Tuesday

nights or Monday nights and everyone would just show up at the house and bring what they had. And there was times I went out and we all hung out and I

drank water. I I drank diet coke or I had enough in my budget for one drink and that was it. And and so it was like

>> I I it was part of it was like from my meal budget, right? But it it was not an excuse to go crazy. It was not an excuse to whatever, but it also was an excuse to withdraw from society because being

lonely is going to is going to kill you, too. >> Yeah. This is a this is creative. Like this is just you creatively solving that problem. Cuz I'll tell you this, I think the best hangs are at the house.

>> Yes. Yes. >> You know, to your point, it's a potluck.

Everybody brings a little something cuz then you're just there to chop it up about whatever happened, right? Your girlfriend could talk about her breakup. You could talk about what happened at work and you're just you just want to be together. It's not about, you know, the the the the egg rolls at Chili's. You know what I'm saying? >> And you'll find you'll find now um again

like the folks I meet now who you might think are famous or have a big Instagram, almost all those gatherings are hanging out of people's houses. Yeah. people wearing shorts and t-shirts and having a great great time. And it it

once you get the hang of the create like the creative spend time with your friends time, um, man, you look at restaurants differently and you look at going out all night until 3:00 a.m. Like you just look at all that differently and you actually get rejuvenated from hanging out with your friends. And in your situation, tell people to bring over other friends that y'all haven't met yet. And that can be super weird and awkward and like, "Oh, that guy's just eyeball." Like, it can. But also, um,

the research tells me that at work and a

friend of a friend is a great way to

meet people in the new world now where dating has been so outsourced to apps.

>> I'm terrified of apps, but yeah.

>> Good. Good. You should be. Get off of them. They're they're nonsense. But the but but all it to say is I I don't want you to have think you have to pick a a life or a um or a free-for-all. You can

absolutely be buzzing through your debt. And if you have a group of friends who are ride or die with you, um they're going to support you. >> And also, >> you can show up and just say, "No, I'm drinking Diet Coke tonight. It's all good." And let me also say this. I will

tell you after 7 and 1/2 years of sacrifice being on the other side of that and the debt being gone and me being at different phases in my life, I never looked back, John, and was like, man, there was a pair of jeans I wanted back in 2013 and I never got them. Or there was a movie that I wanted to see in the theater and I never saw it. Like I you don't think about it. Like once the time has passed, >> but when you're 40, you're 40 and you got your person and you don't owe anybody any money.

>> You can pay for floor seats, right? The concert's awesome.

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Let's roll out to Pensacola, Florida, and talk to Monica. Hey, Monica. What's going on?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

>> Um, I'm 47. My husband is 49. We have

two teenage daughters. Um, we make a

very comfortable income, but seven years ago, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. >> Oh, man. I'm sorry.

>> Thank you. >> How's it play out now? >> I'm Well, I just recently stopped

working. >> Okay. >> Um, yeah, it's it's starting to get a little harder. >> Yeah. Um but we're technically in baby

step two. Um cleaning up some financial

messes.

>> And um my question is so after baby step

three, should we prioritize

funding retirement, paying off the house, or like experiences with our daughters while I'm

still well enough? um to travel and

things like that.

>> Yeah. All of the above.

>> Yeah. >> All of the above, >> you know. Tell me tell me more about the baby step two. Tell me tell me what's left to pay off.

>> Yeah. We have um so at the beginning of

the year I I was taking a look at our finances and just realized, you know, I

feel like we're treading water constantly. And so I said I told my

husband, "We just need to get get rid of the stupid credit card. I hate seeing

that thing." >> Um, so we've paid off $7,000 in credit card debt >> and then we owe 39 in two 39,000 in two

car loans. Um, >> how do you guys earn? You said you live real comfortably. What do you what's what's the income?

>> Yeah. um between my husband's military retirement, his VA disability, we and

then my um I I was very fortunate to get

a disability retirement um from my

employer. >> We earn about 26,000 a month

>> and that's never changing.

>> Um he has I guess he has a very stable

job. Um, >> did you say 26k a month?

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Wow. >> So, his military retirement, that portion that goes on forever and your disability will go on, right?

>> Correct. Until I reach retirement age,

which is the the problem. I don't know that I will actually reach retirement age. >> Right. >> Um, and and we have 1.2 two already in

retirement. >> Okay. So, the good news is, yeah, you're exactly right. You have a wonderful, comfortable income coming in. There's no reason in the world that this 39,000 in cars shouldn't be paid off in the next couple months. Like, lickety split.

>> Two months. >> Yep. >> You know what I mean? And I mean, yeah, you you're used to, right? You're used to enjoying $26,000 a month, but I think

you tightened the purse strings a little bit in in several key areas. And I think you can have these cars knocked out, you know, in in three months and and be rolling. >> Absolutely. >> Now, what about the mortgage?

>> It's quite high. Um, we have 648,000

less on it. >> Mhm.

And what's it worth? >> Um, or it's probably worth about 800

850.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, yeah, I I think that you're in

baby step three. Well, I didn't ask you.

Do you have any liquid cash? Surely you do.

>> Um, we we have some, but we've decided to throw that at the cars this start to throwing throw that at the cars this month. >> And how much was that?

>> Um, it was actually not as much as you would expect. >> Okay. >> It was 13,000.

>> Okay. So, and that cleared out your liquid cash.

Yes. >> Okay. So, that's exactly right. I probably would have kept maybe a thousand, but you guys have such a great uh monthly income. Uh next check, just pull out $1,000, keep it aside for baby step one, and yeah, keep chucking away at this these two car loans right quick.

And then you're quickly going to save up 3 to 6 months of expenses. In your case, I would do 6 months of emergency expenses. And then from there, yeah, my whole entire goal would be, of course, we're investing 15%, of course we're putting aside a little bit for college, but John, I would set a vacation and experiences fund >> for sure. >> And I would just fill that bad boy up.

You guys have a lot of expendable cash.

And yeah, I would do it up. I would have a great time because as long as you're doing the things that that cause you to be a financially responsible adult, which you are in the process of doing and and that checklist is it's five things. If you're a person who is living on a budget, which it sounds like you could tighten yours up quite a bit. If you're a person who is debtree and prioritizing being debtree.

If you're a person who carries the proper insuranceances. If you're a person who is prioritizing savings in the way of having your baby step three, making sure that you're putting away for, you know, 15% for retirement, putting extra on your house, right? Your home is a forced savings account. And finally, if you're prioritizing generosity, as long as you're in that land, then yeah, start putting money aside.

And yeah, I think that you do need to enjoy life. There are certain things that jump right to the top of the list. You know what I'm saying?

loved ones over the years, okay? And

>> Mhm. >> I again this is this is um anecdotal so

take it for what you want but I heard I've heard fe people talking about in their grief about the trip they took one

time me and my husband did x y or z or

one time me and I've heard that some

but man the things I hear over and over again are the meals and the really hard

laughs.

And so as you're thinking through this this idea you have of shared experiences, um, of course y'all talk about the vacations y'all want to go on and the I

call them the funeral stories, right?

Like the one time we all went to Italy or whatever the thing is y'all want to do.

But a really valuable way to just um

extract the soul out of the life you have going for you that's that's left, right, >> is schedule a a a weekly breakfast with your with your kids one-on-one.

>> Schedule a a time that like they're

going to tell that story

>> that mom o after seven years, right? And

then the next 10 years as this as this

challenging disease slowly took over, we

went to breakfast every week and she always got the same weird pancakes and I always tried something like those are the stories, right? And so think of the big things but invest in the little things. And here's the beauty of those little things. They're they're relatively inexpensive financially. They come at a cost to time and intentionality and planning, but man, they don't cost a lot of money. And then when the big concert comes to town, good grief, you better go and be on the front row screaming with all you got, right?

Because y'all have the y'all have the resources to do that.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh my gosh. Thank you.

>> And and be careful about

it sounds bananas to to most of our listeners because they're sitting here going, "You make 26 grand a month.

That's what comes in your house." >> But you know as well as I do that can just slip through your fingers. So Jade's wisdom on make sure you're

budgeting and you're intentional with this money. Y'all will be astonished at how much you actually have.

>> Yeah. >> Y'all can be out of debt here like completely consumer debt and then ask the hard question. Um you and your husband go on a on a one-day retreat and just say, "Hey, what do we want the next 5 to 10 years to look like? Do we need an $850,000 house or do we want to downsize?

>> Kids are about to go to college. Do you want to go ahead and sell now where we got a4 million dollars of equity in this thing and get a smaller place so that we can spend more intentional time together and not have a mortgage? Right?

Have that dreaming conversation and set that thing in motion.

>> Yeah.

>> Thank you.

>> And will you do me a huge favor for for your It's not doing me a favor at I was doing it for your kids.

Will you make a regular practice once every 6 months or so put on the calendar to write them a letter and if slowly

this Parkinson's takes your your your writing hand, speak it, record it. Write

your kids a letter. Tell them how proud of them you are. Write your husband a letter and read it to them. Don't let

anything go unsaid.

Just cherish the the moments you got.

you you're it was an honor to talk to you. You're a saint. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw. This is the Ramsy Show. Let's go out to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and talk to Madison. What up, Madison?

>> Hey, thanks for answering my call. >> Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on? >> All right. My question essentially is um do we save up for a new car or a new house? Our situation is we just moved cross country, me and my husband and our two kids under two years old. Um our both of our cars are old and about to croak and we're currently renting and I've never owned a house before. So we're trying to figure out what to do with our assets.

>> How much cash do you have saved?

>> Um we have about 16,000 of liquid cash.

like that's kind of like our emergency fund slash available spending money.

>> Well, wait a second now.

>> Wait a minute. Thank you. Uh it's it

can't be both. So, just real quick and then I want you know what? Why don't you go ahead and finish talking and then I'll come back to that.

>> Um my husband's the one who mainly manages my team. That's why I said that way. Um no, >> strike two. Madison, keep going. Keep going. >> I'm sorry. >> No, we're playing. Don't be sorry. We're playing with you. to be good. I know. Um

14,000 in a 401k. We've got 2500 in

stocks that my husband manages. Uh zero

debt. Uh two cars that we own outright.

And then my husband, he just took a new job. And the base salary is going to be 70,000 a year with bonuses.

>> Cool. >> That's kind of the financial situation we have right now. >> And you're home with littles?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Hey, kudos on not having any debt. I think that's fabulous. How old are you guys?

>> I am 24 and he's 26.

>> Yes, absolutely. So, good. Zero debt.

Um, here's where I'm going to give you good news and bad news. Which one would you like first?

>> Um, well, good news and hit me with bad

news. Happy to. >> The good news is you're so far ahead of so many people your age because you don't have any debt. You have a fully funded emergency fund. uh you've got a little bit working in your 401k and oh

>> that's a fabulous fabulous fabulous place to be >> and you got two healthy little kids and a husband that likes you >> and a husband that's you know he's got his job cooking he he's starting to take off I >> you're winning >> yes so that's please plant that as a

very good seed in your brain uh because

the bad news is you're not really in a in a position to do either of the things that you >> that you said and you're not far off.

It's just I want to reframe that. So the let's talk about the emergency fund.

>> Uh the way we teach and the way that I experience it and what I do in my life and what John does in his life is we set aside money for an emergency fund. And that means we don't touch this money unless it is a flatout emergency, which means it has to meet a little bit of criteria to be uh discerned as an emergency. It has to be completely unexpected like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know this was going to happen. this came out the blue.

It needs to be urgent like, "Oh, I got to do this like immediately." And it has to be completely necessary. Like, I must do this thing. So, there here's what's going on in your mind. I must do this thing today that I had no clue was going to happen.

Like, that's how it goes. And so, obviously, buying a new car or a new house doesn't fall underneath uh that per those parameters.

could begin saving up money uh to do either of the things that you think is is more pertinent. Whether it's man, one of these cars is literally like on its last leg. Let's start saving up $10,000 or whatever amount of money you think you want to spend. Um no more than your

vehicle should be no more than uh half of his annual income. Um but you could

start to do that, but I wouldn't be in a huge rush to buy a house. No, no, no, no. And and Madison, how old are your

kids?

>> Um, they're both under two. So, one's like a year and a half, one is three months old. >> Wild West. >> You've probably already experienced this, but if you haven't, um, as a

father of two kids sitting next to a woman who's also got her own two kids, I can guarantee you they will use this emergency fund.

>> They will break things. They will set things on fire. They will destroy like all of it, right? >> And so >> please, please, please give yourself, your nervous system, your home, your marriage, the safety that is having that

16 grand in the bank that we don't touch.

>> Okay? >> Just pretend like it's not there.

The second thing is I want you to give your nervous system, your spirit

the piece it needs and deserves by not

just outsourcing the finances to quote unquote the finance guy in the house.

You all need to do this thing together.

You need to know where the accounts are.

You need to know what bills are paying.

You all need to be on the same page with your vision for things.

The third thing is I

know I've been there. I wanted my wife

to have the nicest car possible when we had little ones.

The reality is y'all can't afford the nicest car. And that's okay. And so even if y'all save up the money, buy a 10 grand car or a 15 grand car, not a $45,000 car, because you're building

something together and a depreciating asset won't get you there.

Okay. Right. >> I'd say no more than 50 15,000 each.

Like if you have a car, yours is 15. If he has a car, his is 15. That totals 30.

That puts you at that parameter.

>> And can I ask you can I ask you a personal personal question?

>> Yeah, sure. >> I'm super okay being wrong. I'm wrong a lot. The folks on Reddit tell me that.

Um, but here's the thing. Um,

I'm finishing up a long multi-year project. And something that kept coming

up in my conversations with stay-at-home moms, especially young stay-at-home moms, was this this feeling of I need to do something.

I should be, it it's that phrase, I should be in a house. I should be driving a nicer car. I'm not providing any economic value to the house cuz I don't make a salary. So, I need to be fill in the blank. And it just was this sense of this builtup, pent up energy

that got spent looking for homes we couldn't afford, looking for houses we should probably buy, reading all these blogs telling me why I'm failing at this version of motherhood or that version of wifehood or whatever. Is that your situation at all?

>> No, I would I wouldn't say so. I grew up with a stay at home mom. My husband did.

We're not flashy people. We we drive, you know, older older cars. We just know that we've been so blessed and we're like hyper aware of the head start we were given and we want to make sure our kids have the same thing. So it's kind of like what can we do to like be good

stewards now so we can be as slow. The

tortoise wins >> every time. Every time you read that book, the tortoise wins.

>> And all your stuff you have. It's kind of like if there were like different containers that you needed to fill up, you've got a little bit in each container that's ready to grow and ready to keep going. Like you've got a little bit in your 401k, keep doing that. You know, uh keep putting 15%.

At this point, you're on baby step four, right? So, keep 15% of your husband's gross income every single month into that 401k.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, just keep working away at it. And once you've funded the cars that you think you need, then yeah, I would start and I would kind of go back to 3B and I which is saving for the down payment of your house. And if you want to do that at the same time as you're investing, you can.

Or if you want to unplug investing for 2 to 3 years, you could unplug your investing, that 15%, you could stop that and put that towards your house fund for a little while. >> And Jade, I don't know about you, but there's been times that my wife and I save up for a car >> and we get that chunk of money in there >> and we're both like, "Hey, the cars are fine. Let's put that on the house or let's put that on." Like, once you get that big pile of cash, it's hard just to go throw it in a car sometimes.

>> True.

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Let's go out to the ATL Atlanta, Georgia, and talk to Hannah. Where is

Hannah? Here. I'm trying to find her on the thing. Here it is. Oh, line two.

What's up, Hannah?

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Great. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You got it. What's going on?

>> Um, okay. So, I just need some guidance with the situation that I have found myself in. Um, my husband uh we've been

married 10 years next month and in January he very abruptly shut down his

small business permanently after about 3

years. Um, after he did that, I found

out a few days after he decided to do that, um, that he was in deep financial trouble with the business, somewhere between a h 100,000 to 250,000 is a rough guess that I have. And then found out yesterday that we are about $4,200

behind on our mortgage. We are about um with the business and all about $40,000 behind in taxes. Um, I got a notice that the water would be shut off today. And then yesterday, um, got a call that he

had about $7,000 owed in a credit card

that I didn't know about. And to I'm

sorry, my voice is shaking. I'm a little bit nervous. And >> I am home with our three children. He left two days ago to attend the police academy >> and it's completely inaccessible. Um,

until next week.

Wow. >> So, um, that shaking in your voice, that

terror inside your chest, that's it's right. Okay, hear me say this. You're not crazy.

Okay, we call this here um financial infidelity.

The the trust that was the foundation of your marriage has been turned to ash.

Okay. So, you feel like you're free fall and you are. All right. So, here hear us say that we're with you. Okay.

>> Okay. >> This is a scary scary situation.

>> I would also like to throw in here that um about a year and a half into our

marriage um a very similar circumstance

happened. Um very similar to what I'm saying and we worked through all of that and then about four years later it happened again. >> Oh no. >> And worked through it again. And

>> is it him starting?

>> It's him starting businesses and them failing or it's just some sort of

>> the first time.

>> Yeah, it's just like he had um two cars

with car loans that I didn't know about and then multiple credit cards I didn't know about and um a lot of purchases and

and money owed and just it's been a

pattern for our entire marriage. Does he shut you out of knowing about the finances or or is he just going is he

saying here's the account that we're spending money on and you know everything that's going on with that but then he goes to the side and just does obviously God knows what or are you pretty much like I'm out of everything?

Uh, now I'm pretty much out of everything because um he was using the

business account for all of our personal finances, which I'm not on any of.

>> And how did you have money to spend?

>> He would transfer money into our personal checking account, which I had a debit card for. >> Oh jeez. >> Oh boy. And what? Just a little bit a month for you to do what you needed to do.

anytime that I needed to purchase

anything, um the picture was painted

that we had a ton of money and so if I

wanted to go for a shopping day or book a trip or anything at all, it was not a big deal at all. >> He would just slide it over to you.

Okay. >> Um here's what I want you to do today. I I have a a feeling in my guts that this

is not the bottom of of the mess,

that there's more out there, >> unfortunately. >> Okay. Um I want you to

pull your credit report and if you are able to pull his, get his, too.

And at least get a picture. And if you can't pull his, I don't want you to commit fraud, but I want that to be the first thing. Um, when you all are able to communicate.

>> Um, okay. Cuz you're in a you've got three little ones. You need to focus on four walls ASAP >> cuz they're about to take your house. They're about to take your um shut your

water off. You're about to shut your electricity off, right? You're in you're in a five alarm fire right now.

>> Um, do you have access to any cash at all?

Um, before he left, he gave me about $500 in cash, >> but there's no money in a checking account or anything.

>> I think there's about $100 in our checking account. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Do you have Do you have family nearby?

>> Uh, yes, I do. I do. Sorry.

>> That's mom and dad or sisters and brothers? What is it?

>> Just my mom and dad. >> Okay. Um, here's what I'm thinking about. Um, and John, jump in at any point.

Um, you've been a stay-at-home mom. Have you Have you been in the workforce at all at any point?

>> Yes, I'm a registered nurse, but I just had to stay home with our children for a little while. >> Okay, fabulous. Cuz my brain goes to if you have to exit the situation, um, how

can you stay on your feet? How can you keep yourself afloat? Um because it sounds like there's going to be a lot of

>> um there if this comes to a point where it goes before a judge, all of this is going to come out and it's going to be a lot more there. >> Yeah. >> And I just want to make sure you're okay. And so for me, it's great that if you have family, community, friends around you that can help you for a season of time if you need it.

And I love that you have a career path if you have to go back to work and if kids gosh, end up having to go to daycare or something like that. Um, I feel confident after hearing what you said that you'd be able to make that transition. >> Yeah. >> Do you?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Um, I mean, you've got to write down and you might call the mortgage company and tell them what's going on that you're just getting notice of this and you're going to try to make it right and just let them know I'm I'm a terrified, scared stay-at-home mom. My husband's at the police academy and I'm just getting all these notices, >> right? >> Um, and I would write down and they'd be my first call since you're behind 4200 bucks.

I don't know if is that two months or three months? How far behind is that? >> I I think it's about two months plus fees. >> Okay.

I would call them and just let them know I hear you. I see this. I'm just getting this like y'all are.

need to come up with a plan here and they might give you an extension or a plan. I don't know the the the terms of your mortgage. I don't know your relationship with your mortgage company.

And then I would write down what's the what's the electric bill? How far behind are you? What's the water bill? Like these four walls we talk about. Do you have transportation? Do you have electricity? Do you've got water? Do you have a home? Do you have food? Right?

You and you're at that level. And it might be that um uh I I don't even think might be. I

think you're at a position now, this is scary enough that you need to call your family and say, "Hey, I gotta go start applying for nursing jobs this afternoon, but even then, you won't get a paycheck for another month at the earliest." Right? So, but it's like, I need to drop my kids off starting now.

>> And none of this is what you planned.

None of this is what you wanted. But this is you're a scared basically a scared single mom who's in a big big big mess because you were betrayed by your husband again and again and again. And so this is just choosing reality. We'll grieve later. We will be sad later.

We'll be mad and angry later. I got to go get some money right now.

>> And I would hate for you to run down to the credit union and see if you get another loan because and that's the last thing you'll need is yet another pile on. Right. >> Yeah. The good news is you you probably have the cash to keep the water on. You probably have, you know, some food in the house. Keep some groceries going.

Uh, my question, and I I'm not trying to get dramatic. You know for a fact that he went to police academy? Like he's coming back?

>> Yes. >> You have contact with him? Okay.

>> I'm trying to make sure he didn't didn't skip out. >> But I mean, that's going to be a $50,000 year job, right?

>> I I hope so. I think so.

>> I mean, not not while he's in academy.

It'll probably be much less than that until he gets out. But even even then, that's not going to cover this mess y'all are in.

>> No. >> Right. >> And I don't know the fullness kind of what you were saying about going before a judge and all of that, but um he has had um some police reports filed and

I've had people uh locate me on Facebook

to try and remedy some business things going on. So um someone suggested I get security cameras at my house. So, >> um it it might be time for you to um yeah to go stay with your family members and leave the house for a bit and not I'm going to ask you to do that. I want you to go stay with your family members, step out of this situation for a minute and I want you to call an attorney and they'll walk you through getting to the bottom of the mess.

So, sorry you're going through this.

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let's go out to Lexington, Kentucky, and

talk to Lisa. Hey, what's up, Lisa?

>> Hi. How are you all doing? Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You bet. Thanks for calling. What's going on? >> Yeah. So, how do my husband and I have

the conversation or should we try to have a second conversation with my father-in-law about the importance of getting life insurance? Um, just a little backstory, he's the sole income earner for their family. My mother-in-law has been a stay-at-home mom for the last 20 some odd years. And

my brother-in-law, who has some disabilities and is unable to work, lives with them as well. Um, my father-in-law, he's kind of the impression that, you know, you can always get it later. It's not important right now. Um, just doesn't have a good opinion on it.

And so, as me and my husband, we have life insurance. We see the value of it. Um, my mother-in-law, she was like, "Hey, tell me about life insurance. What should I be looking for?

What should I not be looking for?" And so, we're not just wanting to give unsolicited advice to them.

how do we have a a second conversation or how should we approach the subject?

>> Well, it sounds like there's two things going on. One is mom is say feeling exposed. I'm worried about dad. And then

dad is saying I don't really care if she feels exposed. I'm not doing this.

>> Yeah. They don't have any consumer debt.

they just have their mortgage. Um she said that they were looking they've been shopping um for for life insurance. They have a person that's looking for them and um they, you know, brought up the idea of mortgage insurance, but the value that they were >> being told and and that he's convinced about, you know, it's not even going to cover their mortgage.

>> Yeah. And the problem the problem with that is you still have a stay-at-home mom and a special needs son.

>> Exactly. They need Incorrect. >> Right. So, um, I'll tell you, this is

going to sound like an ad, but I was using Xander insurance for my term life insurance for my me and my wife for years before I even thought about coming over to Ramsay cuz I trust him. And then

when I got to Ramsay, Xander, who we endorse and who we've been talking about for years and years and years, but that's where I would go. And Xander tops, this is like a commercial. Ander, they shop all of the top companies and

or many of the top companies to find you the best price. They work for you, not for the insurance companies. And so they're going to bring you here's how much money you got. Here's how old you are. Here's how expensive it's going to be. Here's the price. And depending on his age and all that, it's going to factor into it. But that's where not where I would go. That's where I did go.

>> I I would bring your husband into this.

>> Yeah. his conversation to have >> he's fully >> Yeah, he's fully in it.

>> And they're looking at going to work on Monday, >> right? >> I mean, it it's a horrowing experience sitting with a widow >> who realizes, "Oh, we got nothing." This kind of like I'm I'm going to be honest with you, this kind of ego in older men pisses me off at a at a way I I can't even comprehend because they're going to bleep me because the show's on the radio. I get so mad at this kind of arrogance and ego and dismissiveness of

your wife, your special need kids. Like, it makes me infuriated. But here's the deal. Y'all can't do anything about it.

>> Yeah. And I I'm just curious cuz, you know, if Ken were here, he would say to

just ask questions instead of instead of saying you need to do this, you need to do that. A couple of wellplaced and well thought through questions that you just let hang in the air. when you say, "Okay, yeah, >> if the worst happens, Dad, and you know,

on the way home, you get in an accident.

>> How is mom >> going to pay the mortgage? How are, you

know, I don't know what the brother-in-law's name, how how are we going to take care of little Bobby? How are we going to I'm just wondering what your plan for that is, or have you considered what your plan for that is, >> right? Maybe come up with one or two questions that that your son can ask at

the right time with dad. It's not in the middle of a heated argument. It's not, you know, when they're already talking about one thing and now he brings this up too. It's they go to breakfast, they go out, just the two of them and at the

right time he says, you know, we've had a lot of questions. We've had a lot of conversations about this. I'm just wondering, you know, um, and he asks the two questions and just let it sits there. Sit there. >> And his dad might look at at at him and say, "She's going to be your problem."

>> Right. That may happen. >> Yeah. And then to which he can say, "No, that's not an option.

You're going to have to come up with something." But I mean, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, we like we me and my husband, we're both firstborn kids.

Like my um my mom currently lives with us. Um you know, so we've we've kind of taken that on ourselves. We're both very financially stable. Um so like we've we've kind of prepared ourselves for that.

You know, if we do have to take care of of my husband's mom as well, like >> we would be able to, but again, you know, like >> we want them to take care of themselves.

>> Well, and here's the deal. It's it's just um it's choosing reality.

>> Yeah. >> Right. We It should be. And he's looking at y'all and saying looking at his wife and saying, "Nope, I'm not going to." >> Um which again, I I just cannot wrap my head around that kind of ignorance and ego. But it is what it is. So, we're going to choose reality and >> um we're going to start making that play. And I think you've got a a tiny

crack in the door in that mom asked for it. >> So I'm going to give mom >> Xander contact for term life insurance.

Do not do not do not buy some nonsensical whole life policy. And >> no, I've been listening to you all long enough. >> Yeah, you know it. You know the deal.

>> Yeah, we're going to send send it on to them and we're going to go from there.

>> Let me tell you something, John. I I I'm I'm getting frustrated because I feel like the number the the top two calls that we've been getting lately and and it it and I'm not I'm not picking on men. I'm just telling you what I'm getting. The top two calls are a wife

who calls in and her husband is either locking her out of the money, doing something shady with the money. She's kind of been, you know, removed little by little from the situation and now like all hell is breaking loose. or it's

families who the parents cannot get

their act together. >> Yeah. >> And they're leaving and burdening their their children with things that they

should be taking care of themselves as adult grown people with grown jobs in grown houses. >> And I'm just like, what is going on?

>> Yeah. >> Get your life together. Get your act together.

>> What's going on? Like that's my question for for the heads of families here is what are y'all doing? You need to get yourself together. >> I I can't wrap my head around

I I mean I can't I'm going to sound like a broken record. I can't get my head around the arrogance and the dis I I mean I can

>> your daughter-in-law should not have to call into a national YouTube and radio show saying he doesn't care enough about

his own wife to take out coverage that's going to cost him I don't know 300 bucks a quarter. My father-in-law has such deep-seated arrogance that when his son came to him, he blew up and threw a third grade temper tantrum because he couldn't handle a hard conversation with his son. >> Well, that's the through line is arrogance. It's arrogance on both both of those spectrums.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And as we as the call kept going on and on and on, um, she brought up issues of personal safety and maybe she needs to get security cameras. I want everyone listening to know off air we obviously circle back and providing her with some resources and um we'll do our due

diligence when it comes to paying for financial coaching for her and things like that but also with contacting local police and authorities because a a woman with three young kids does not need to be worrying about should I go get security cameras because the mess that

my awful terrible husband has left me in has now jeopardized our safety. So, just know listeners, we're taking care of folks behind closed doors, too. We're not just going to leave people hanging. Um, fathers, husbands,

take care of your families.

That's how low the bar is. We'll be right back.

Welcome back, Jade. My blood pressure is still up. >> Listen, mine is, too. But, you know, at the end of the last segment, we kind of went in on like dad's men needing to step up. But let me also say for the ones that do because that it's such a

blessing. And we were talking over the break. I was telling him about something that Sam, my husband, did that is like just showing up just doing the best you can. And if you do have I'm I'm I'm I'm totally taking this from you.

If you do have a man in your life that is a real man, like doing the best he can, leading for the family financially, you know, doing all the transparent, please tell him. Please go home today and be like, "Thank you. Thank you for being the opposite of what sometimes calls into the Ramsay Show.

We need leaders like that. We're grateful for you. Keep doing what you do. >> And I'll just say for my brothers out there, the bar is so low. Show up.

Like just show up. Show up. When she calls and says, "Hey, what's the I got you. I got it." >> Yeah. I got it. >> And it it's just Yeah. >> Put your ego aside, man. And by the way, when you set your ego down, life is so

much more fun. That's so much more fun.

>> Yes. To just let somebody see who you really are. >> Yes.

That's all I'll say. All right, let's roll out to Atlanta. Let's go back to Atlanta and talk to Chelsea. What's up, Chelsea?

>> Hello. Thank you for having me on.

>> Thanks for calling. What's going on?

>> Um, yes. I'll go ahead and just back you up and say that we are in a positive marriage, a very great marriage. And >> Chelsea, what's his name? >> I have a financial experience.

>> Good. >> What's his name? >> Forest. >> Shout out Forest. Shout out.

>> This is what I'm talking about. >> Shout out good men on this show. All right. So, what's going on? How can we help? >> Yeah. So, we've been working through the baby steps. We've paid off all of our debt. We um have our emergency fund

created. We jumped ahead and already have 529s going for our two children and

we have a third on the way. Um,

thank you. But, um, yes, so we're on baby step four technically with the, um,

investments trying to save 15%.

And I guess I'll ask the question and then kind of explain, but my overall question is, does it ever make sense to work on baby step number six in the mortgage um before completing the 15%

for investments? >> Oh, you're talking my language. Go ahead. >> Why? Why is that? Tell me the reason behind it.

>> So, it makes sense in my head, but um >> it always does. My um I am a stay-at-home mom, but I also do freelance marketing. So, I'm bringing in about 2500 a month. And then my husband makes about 125,000 a year with

his company. He has a 401k um 4% match

that he participates in. He also has an

ESP company stock program. Um, so he

puts 10% away to that every um or every

month or every paycheck, but then every six months um he gets a 15% discount for

the company stock if you were to sell it. >> How quickly does that? Sorry.

>> How quickly does that vest?

>> Um I'm not sure. Okay. So, uh I'm not

sure if I understand that question.

Sometimes with stock option purchases,

when you're when you're able to buy stock from the company, you have to sit on it for 24 months before you can turn around and sell it. Sometimes you can buy it and then sell it the next day.

Usually, if you're buying at a discount, they don't let you do that, though.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, it's every six months.

So, he participates in it. Every paycheck, takes 10%. M >> and then it's every July 1st and every um January 1st you can sell it um for a

15% discount.

>> Okay. So here's >> and that does have capital gains tax if if this is maybe answering your question. >> Well I don't care about that. How much is in that account right now?

>> Um right now there's about 15,000 I

think. >> Okay. So here's >> generally this has been our house project fund as how you know we had to get new sight and we had a new deck.

>> Okay, >> things that would help us not go into debt if we use this. But now our house was at a good place. So we're thinking it's either investment or putting it to the house. Well, I think you've just got to I think you've got to recalibrate on your investing because you've got 10%

going towards a single stock, a single company stock, which is not what we would suggest. I I hear you on the 4% uh

401k. So, you're investing 4% there.

Your company's matching it. I would not

put the other 10% in the company stock.

I would put the other 10% in the 401k.

Even if it's a very good well-known

>> Yes. Even if it is because >> I don't know if I should drop it. >> No, don't drop the name. But a good investment is diversified.

>> Yeah. And I'll tell you right now, I just I just had this with uh a close

personal friend of mine >> got a stock option windfall of 225

a year ago. And I said, it was a single

stock and it was this whole you could move it over here. and and I said, "Hey, cash it out now. Sell it." And they said, "Are you crazy? We're making these investments and this is a global company." That person just recently called, we were talking on the phone and said, "Bro, that stock is at 160 now. Should have listened to you." >> And so it it it it it doesn't matter

how good they're telling you, it's good.

We're doing this and we're stable. When you're sitting on a single stock, >> there's no checks and balances. >> Yeah. It's just up or down. And I I have a personal lived experience. My mom worked at this tiny little company called Enron, which I think was the fourth biggest company on the planet.

>> And it went away over a weekend, right?

And so I am big on if you get one single

company stock and they give you a deal to buy it on it, great. And the moment you can vest it, cash it out and either put it in retirement or use it to pay down your house or whatever. But get out of that stock because just holding it and holding it a single stock with all that money, man, you are playing roulette. >> Yeah. If I could if I could recalibrate this today, I would make it to where you're investing the 10% along with the

other 4% into the company 401k. And you

know, if you max that out, then you can move over to a Roth IRA. You can do one, he can do one. And then if there's a little bit of money left or if there's, you know, something that he's required to do, that's fine. Um, but I would change that lickety split because you don't want all of your money tied up in this. And if you're if you're saying, "Well, we're still investing in the 401k." You're only investing 4%. And our rule here is if there's a match, it's a

fantastic thing, but we really just consider that gravy. Like, we really want you working the muscle of 15% because what if he switches jobs and there is not a 4% match, right? Or what if something changes with your, you know, your situation. So, we always want you kind of in the driver's seat of what you're doing with your money.

And yeah, consider that 4% like gravy on top of a biscuit is what Dave Ramsey would say. H >> how much um do you have left on your mortgage? >> So, we have $252,000 left on the mortgage.

say we put $100 a month. I know it's not much, but $100 a month to his personal IRA as well. >> Okay. Um, and then overall investments, we probably have over about 200,000 in all of our investments right now.

>> Are you putting that in a traditional IRA or a Roth IRA?

>> A Roth. Correct.

>> 200. Does that include the stock in the the stock you have on the side?

>> The 15,000. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. You know, >> um, if I were you, whatever company stock you do have, I'm I'm with John. I would, you know, cash that out. Maybe that goes towards your mortgage >> or that goes in your Roths and you can max them both out this year and call it like >> I I because here's what it sounds like you're doing. It sounds like you're putting in 4% of your own money into a a retirement vehicle >> and then you're taking what you know approximately the the rest of the 15%

and you're just putting it into a stock and you are using that stock as as like kind of like a glorified emergency fundish to deal with house stuff,

>> right? Which we're done with them and we want to do well with it. So even if even

if we didn't do the ESP at this point though, I think maybe my question might still like stand if I can ask that too.

>> The original one about paying off the mortgage first.

>> Yes. Just because thinking about even if we did the 10% just to regular either 401k or the Roth IRA, we would still

need about $400 a month from our budget

somewhere in order to hit the 15%.

>> That's right. And I don't know where we would exactly get it right now. Like there would be pennies and whatnot >> here. Yeah, definitely. And and you might have to pinch pennies. So, one thing about the baby steps is just because you've paid off your debt and now you're starting to invest, it doesn't mean that you're all of a sudden rolling in a bunch of extra money cuz you're now investing 15%. Um, so you're

going to have to get to your budget and take a look at this because what I don't want is for you to say, "Uh, it feels

better to do to pay off the mortgage instead." And before you know it, you look up and you've neglected your investing. The mortgage is going to get paid off. You're going to find little bits of money here and there. I'm sure he makes bonuses that you can pay this off.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by the world famous Jade Warshaw taking your calls on your money, your life, your relationships, everything. 88 8255225.

Let's go out to Fort Worth, Texas, and talk to Allison. Hey Alison, what's going on? >> Hi Dr. John. Hey Jade. How are you guys?

>> We're doing awesome. What's up?

Well, um I've found the Ramsey um

information somewhat recently. So, although we're in a pretty good spot financially, I really appreciate that it's prompted me to kind of look at our whole financial picture and realize that we need to go back and readjust some things or fill in some gaps. So, thank you for all that you do with that.

>> Very cool. Welcome to the cult. Welcome.

>> And um I realize I have a question about 529s that I haven't heard you guys address before. >> Okay. Um, we have opened up a 529

account for each of our kids when they were young and we've been very blessed

that each set of grandparents wants to help us save for the kids college. Um, one set of grandparents will make contributions directly to the 529s that we have opened and the other set of grandparents um has opened their own account for each

child. >> Nice. Okay. Nice. >> And I'm unsure of um is there any kind

of logistical >> I'm going to set you free.

>> Are you ready? >> When Sure. >> I'm going to set you free.

It's their money.

>> Uhhuh. >> And they're choosing to do it that way.

>> And so I would open my hands to it and I

would get with my spouse and plan as though that money won't be there.

>> Okay. and because it fighting them over it like get like >> it just is that way and for whatever reason that's why how they've chosen to do it with their money and I would just say great cool >> I don't think it's a bad thing >> no it's not but it's just how they're doing it and trying to talk to them about it or or discuss it about it just is what that is I don't know though Jade I don't know the logistics of can can a grandparent open a 529 for a kid and a parent open a 529 for a kid and both of those accounts be used to pay for the same kid?

I don't know the answer to that question.

mother-in-law opened it because it was a get it was something she was gifting uh before Sam and I well before we were out of debt and then so she technically was

the owner on the account and then she set up me and my husband as like

>> we would be owner in succession like if she died or something we'd become the owner but we all have access. we can all add money into the account and then the kids are set up as the beneficiary. So,

>> that's just kind of the way it's been.

And I I don't know if we transferred it at some point into our name, but I think it's still in her name and it doesn't matter because it's she's not using it.

She's, you know, 63 years old.

>> And Allison, I got to tell you, I'm super biased. I worked at universities for like 20 years. And so the number of

students I met with and parents I met with who had a grandparent holding a

checkbook saying my kids my grandkids going to study X Y or Z and they're not going to be in this program and they're going to go to this school. Man, I was just like, dude, if anyone wants to tell like try to play puppeteer over my life with their checkbook, I'm out.

>> And so I take my bias for what it is,

right? If if they hold this account,

just assume it's their money and they're going to want to steward it how they best see fit. And that might be turning it over to the parents and saying wherever Junior wants to go to college, that's awesome. Or whatever junior wants trade school or whatever wants to study, great. But they might use it as no, no, my grandkids going to this school. If they want my money and you can say cool, we've already made other arrangements. So I my answer has a big bias to it.

>> Um but that just is what it is. which that would be I mean if they did that listen we've heard all sorts of calls on this radio so anything's possible but if they did it would be such a waste because then it's like well they're not going to that school so now what you going to do but you know the good news is you can have multiple 529s that fund a single student like that's fine it's no problem if you've got one over here one over there and one over there um >> do you sense that that's what they're trying to do or are they just like hey it's a financial thing we want to do our thing over here we don't want to mingle I get that.

that. I think I was more a potential concern like I don't know the logistics

around I saw somewhere when when this one's opened which was you know maybe close to 10 years ago. So, I don't know if laws have changed since then, but that um if a child received money from

an account other than the parents directly that it would it counted as income for them and it could somehow,

you know, either affect taxes or financial aid or something like that.

So, are you aware of anything along those lines? >> I I'm not I've not heard that. Um Okay.

That sounds too vague for me to form a clear opinion on it. I would just double check whatever your question like form a a clear question around that. Um I mean if the money is used for education expenses there shouldn't be there shouldn't be an issue. Now what you said about financial aid um I'm not sure what

you're trying to like >> I wouldn't play that game at all anyway. Yeah. >> I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish there. So >> okay got it. The goal would be pay cash,

use the 529s, use them up, and be

grateful to whoever's contributed.

>> Yeah. Once wants to put some money in on on your kids cash and and and let's say there is a tax liability at some point down the road, it's still going to be far less than tuition was, right?

>> There shouldn't be. If they're using it for education expenses, now if they're just pulling it out, I mean, if you're pulling it out, you're going to be on a 10% penalty for sure, and that's going to be income taxed. But hey, um Allison,

can we just tell you welcome to the gang.

>> Thank you. Yeah, it's uh listen to you guys all the time. Um strolling the baby

around the neighborhood and doing chores in the house. So, I I've really appreciated all your advice.

>> Awesome. Well, thank you so so much for calling. Really grateful. Um hot take.

>> I was gonna say hot take is I probably should dial back some of my biases. I I just have um so many experiences that

taint my taint my rosy picture of the world sometimes. >> Well, I was going to ask your hot take on on 529s. What do you think about when

you are with friends and it's like a giftgiving situation like a birthday or Christmas and they're like just give to my kids 529 plan and they're like sending you a link. I I I well good or bad >> I had a buddy the I mean one of my closest friends on the world in the world the guy who's the executive of my will he he opened an account when Hank was born and said >> I'm I at the time and this was right he's like I don't super trust you so I am starting an account for your kid and every year on his birthday I'm going to add money to it and when he goes to goes to school I'll pass along.

>> Yeah. And >> I mean like it's it's Hank's birthday

and >> Oh, and I'm going to send out a link >> and you send out a link that's like >> I'm probably not doing that. >> Donate to my kids 529. Is it tacky or hacky? >> What do you think?

>> I think it's tacky. >> I go with a big capital T. >> I think it's tacky. >> Yeah, >> I know someone who's done it.

>> Let's let's let's give their name and address on the air. >> I may have hosted with them.

Oh, I can tell you. Just

>> listen. >> Does his dog have a wheelchair? >> You got to do what you got to do. You got to do what you got to do. That's all I'm going to say. >> No, I'm going full tacky on that one.

And he knows who he is. We'll be right back.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

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>> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Jared in Wyoming. He says, "I realize that money is a personal topic and it can be volatile, but when I hear my co-workers brag about credit card points, it makes my head spin. How do you recommend discussing financial issues in casual social settings? Should

I engage in conversation and try to be helpful or just keep to myself?

Um, I'm going to tell you a story

about what I don't do

and I learned it because I was around someone who did do it. Um, so I'm I'm

mostly a plant-based eater. I don't eat meat. Uh, I occasionally I'll do some dairy, but I once knew somebody who was

so heavy-handed with every situation. If if she was in a situation when other people were eating meat, it was like, I can't believe you're eating meat. Like, this is the wor like, how could you, right? And it's just such an off-putting like it was giving all of us a bad name.

I was like, hey, you need to stop that. It's making all of us look bad. because nobody likes to be beat over the head with something that they possibly don't agree with and they didn't even ask your opinion anyway and they don't really care what you do and they they like doing what they're doing, right?

mean, John, you know me. I don't really talk about I most of my friends are uh

carnivores and that makes them happy and I'm fine with it and I don't really mention it and I cuz I don't care and they don't care and we eat together and we eat together in peace and one day if John is like, "Hey, I noticed you never eat meat. Uh, tell me about that." Then I'm happy to tell him about it and I'm literally just sharing it from my perspective. >> So, I'm on the other side of this. Tell me >> in 2012 there was rumblings in the nerd community, >> right?

ketogenic diets. >> Got you. Okay. Okay. Okay.

>> So, this is before they became mainstream and everything was keto, >> right? >> I went down rabbit holes. I met with everybody I could. I talked to folks over at the med school, but >> I became the most annoying human who's

ever lived. every I mean someone could ask me a question about higher red finance and I'd figure out a way to turn it back into you need to be eating a ketogen I was the I was unbearable

>> were you >> I mean I was the worst and I'm bad now I

was so bad then and so um and a I was

wrong on a huge chunk of what I was preaching about >> and I was unbearable I was so annoying to be around and so I from that and a

couple other things I've just adopted a policy which is I try I I I I fail

sometimes but most of the time I try to answer questions if you ask. >> Yeah. >> And so when it comes to people talking about how I do my money and look how much I make I just smile. And by the way

to everybody who thinks Dave is out lecturing his friends.

>> Dave's friends lease cars. Dave's friends have credit cards. You don't hear him preaching about it. They know what he thinks about it and he's their friend and they're his friend. And so, um, and I joke about this. My oldest best friend on the planet is a banker.

>> Yes. >> And here's what that means. That means every day he goes to work hoping I fail in my job on the Ramsay show. And every day I go on the air hoping to put him out of business. And he's my best friend

on the planet. And so we have we disagree about this thing. And he loves my family and I love his family and I love him. He loves me. And dude, I'll go to war for that guy and vice versa. We disagree about this and we don't have to preach and fight and argue about it, right? And all that. >> And I I'll go out on an even further limb because in culture, and I I know

I'm opening a can of worms here. We can we can tend to vilify the folks who aren't on our same >> any stratosphere. Like we don't have the same opinions. >> You don't vote like me. You don't this. And you got the shot and you didn't get the shot. Like >> Yes. So, >> it's madness. >> Sometimes we can think, "Oh, if they're not doing it our way, they're wrong." >> Yeah. Or they're or worse, they're evil.

>> Or or they're bad. >> And the thing is, here's the thing. There's plenty of people out there, John, and they I know a few. They have

their credit card. They pay it off every month. Do I agree with that? No. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't teach it. I wouldn't. Right. But they do it and they're fine. They're not bad. They're not broke. They're not They're They're doing fine. Now, plenty of them are broke, >> right? Like, let's do that. Right. But

you got to just let people live their life. They're grown. You don't have to insert yourself. You don't have to There's a lot of ways to do life out there. And people are people are doing just fine. And if they're struggling, that's usually when they you can sense that and and that you know, you can ask God to or what whatever you do to open up that opportunity to kind of share a little bit. But other than that,

and I'm not saying that Jared is doing that. I'm really going out on a limb here. But just don't go out looking for

>> a fight. That's it. Yes. Like >> looking to defend yourself. Just >> the toughest guys I know, the guys who fought professionally are the guys who will walk away and grab their wife's

hand or grab their kids' hand and get in their car and go home because they got nothing to prove. Right. >> Right. They don't have to throw a punch.

>> I don't have anything to prove to you. Right. And so I So Jared, great great

question and we've all dealt with this.

Um, I would smile and let them just talk. And if they ask you what what's your opinion, >> I don't mess with credit cards. >> I don't play with credit cards. I don't want single moms who are struggling with overdraft bills to pay for my free flights. So, I don't deal with uh >> See, now you already went deeply fast.

>> You went deep really fast. >> I I'll say it and it usually shuts up a conversation, but like I if you ask, I'll tell you, but dude, I I want us to have a good time tonight. So, run your mouth and we can move on with our days.

>> Agree. Agree. I love it.

>> All right, let's uh roll out to Htown and talk to Dean. Dean, I'm up against the clock, so get right to your question, brother.

>> Hey. Hey. Hey. How y'all doing?

>> We're doing good, man. >> Uh kind of a little nervous. I'm going through a lot. Um I have $144,000

worth of debt. Uh just myself. Uh >> me and my wife recently got married a year ago. Um, she has about $12,000

worth of debt in student loans and $1,200 worth of debt in credit cards.

>> Um, I recently just wanted to start getting my life together. I recently me and her recently got saved and um, I really felt a calling to really get my my finances in order. And so, um, I went ahead and paid off my car and paid off of my um, my credit card. And so, I

still have that $144,000 worth of debt.

Um, I'm having trouble getting my wife on board with me with this uh living debtree. Um, she's not on board with it.

So, I'm kind of doing doing this all by myself. Uh, we agreed to have a wedding.

Um, and we recently last night just found out that she is pregnant.

>> All right. >> And so now, um, we have about $14,000

worth saved, uh, towards the wedding that we have probably agreed that we're not going to do the wedding anymore, at least for right now. Um, and so I'm my question is um what do I do with my

finances? Like what position do you guys feel like that I am in my finances? And then also um how do I get across to her uh to be on board with me with this being debtree thing? >> So let let me be clear. So if you guys don't do the party like you don't do the wedding party, I still think you should get married. >> Go to the courthouse and get married. >> Yeah. I think that's just going to solidify. >> I'm already married in the courthouse. >> You're already fabulous. Okay. Um, you

know, I love that you are interested in in getting yourself together. You've had you had a transformative moment, right?

You you had a moment, God shined down.

You're like, I'm doing this thing and ready, set, go.

>> Sometimes when you have a moment like that that's just a catalyst and you're just ready to go, you're assuming that the person next to you should just jump right into your level of excitement and it's not always like that. And sometimes it's multiple conversations of you sharing your heart and sharing your fears for them to even be like, "Okay, I

I may not share your passion, but I'll go along with you on this ride until maybe one day I do." >> That's me and my wife, Dean. As a Texas male, it's hard to sit down in front of your wife and say, "Hey, my past actions have led me to a point where I'm scared about our future." >> Yeah. >> Would you join me in this?

>> Yeah. >> You get what I'm saying? >> Hey, uh, hang on the line. You you asked us a couple of big questions and I want to make sure we answer this thing all the way. I'm going to hold you over the break. We usually don't do that, but I'm going to hold you over the break, so hang on the line, and we will come back to you um right after this commercial break.

All

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Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Right before the last break, I took a call from Dean in Htown in Houston. And Dean

um is just realized he's got a ton of

debt. Recent recently married, got a new baby. He just found out last night he's pregnant. Him and his wife are pregnant.

And he is trying to get his wife on board. He wants to get his financial house in order. And so we held him over.

We're going to walk him through how to clean this mess up and get his feet underneath him. Dean, you there?

>> Yep. >> All right, man. Thanks for hanging over the break with us. All right, we're going to walk you through the plan here on out. Um, one question I got for you.

What's this 140k? You said you got rid of your credit cards, you paid them off, you paid off your car. What's this 140?

>> Uh, it's all student loan debt.

>> All student is is federal to 90. I have

99 in uh states.

>> Wow. Okay. Uh, what do you do for a living, brother?

>> I do real estate now. I went to school for business, but I I recently got a job in real estate two years ago, and yeah, so I do real estate now. >> What's your annual income?

Uh last year I made 65,000. This year uh

God has blessed me so much. I've already made 40,000 in the last three months.

And if I stay on this pace, I'll be at like 125 to 150 if I can just continue on how I'm doing now. >> Outstanding, dude. That means you're getting your feet under you in that in a in a wonky business, man.

Congratulations, dude. >> Yeah. >> What about your wife? What's she earn every month or yearly?

>> Uh yeah, she makes 40,000. She's a dental assistant, so she makes about 40,000. Okay, so there's a couple things

uh linked in here. Let's talk about

let's first talk about debt aside and paying off debt aside. How does she feel about combining your finances together and just saying, "Hey, we have one account. Both of our paychecks go into it. You know, we're we have transparency. We make financial decisions together." Like that whole bag. How does she feel about that?

>> Uh she actually wants that. I've been the one that's hesitant to do that. why

>> um with our marriage uh just because um I've we just don't think about finances the same way. Um you know, for instance, we recently had a conversation about the fact that she has a lease and with me, she's leasing a car >> with me kind of finding more out about finances and she she was just like, I'm not giving up my lease. I like to have a new car every 3 years. But let's take that let's let's take financial philosophy off the table for just a second and just the idea of combining

>> to become one and we're just going to do this thing together to have full transparency would aside from cuz it's

going to take some time for you guys to have similar values and you're never going to think the same. You're just going to have similar values.

>> So if you just say hey I married this woman I'm in it now.

>> Could you be on board with let's have transparency. Let's share. Let's do this thing together. And we're not talking about debt and plans yet. We're just combining our money. Would you be okay with that?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Let me put it this way. You've already combined DNA to make a human.

>> The least you can do is is to combine your checking account, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like you're already in it now.

>> Yeah. Cuz we do have a joint account where we do bills, but we haven't done the whole thing. So, there you go. I think that's your first step cuz I we teach baby steps around here and we have seven financial baby steps but there's just I think for you there's even some smaller layers that we can get to that is just going to help you inch towards where you want to go.

So I think tonight that's the first conversation you have is it's not about paying off debt. It's not about accomplishing goals. It's just hey you know we we're married. We're about to have a baby together.

Let's do this money thing together. I want I want us to jump in with both feet. I know we don't see eye to eye on certain things yet. That'll come later.

But I just want to know that you and I are together on this. >> We're one.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> It all goes on the budget. >> You're all working together on the same team. >> Mhm. Cuz that's the first thing. You can't convince somebody to do what you want to do if you haven't fully committed. >> If you won't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> So the first step is we're committing that we are sharing our money and let it marinate for a minute. Like let it breathe. you don't have to, you know, have this conversation tonight and then by Sunday you're already talking about paying off the debt, right? Get the money together, let it breathe for a moment, and then while you're while you're continuing to learn, cuz you're you're you're new to this, too.

Then we can start having conversations about, okay, now that we see what our budget looks like, here's some of the things that I'm noticing with our budget. I've got a lot of debt and it is like eating up the majority of our margin.

you've got a lease. I've noticed that's, you know, that's something that I'm taking note of. Right? And you can start to say things that you're just noticing.

And you can start to share things about how you're feeling.

>> And again, let this unroll. It's okay that this takes a little bit of time. I don't think, John, I've ever had a financial conversation with Sam where we have opposing views or differing views.

That happens in one conversation.

>> Never. Yeah. Never. >> It doesn't happen. So take that out of your expectation because not only is this is not only is this a delicate conversation, but you're newly wed, >> right? >> And you just both found out you're having a baby, right? Like all this you're a new you're a new person of faith. Like all this is new, right? So So >> use think of this word in your head, practice. You've never done any of this stuff before. You're going to practice.

Just like if you never shot a free throw before, you're going to get up there and look silly for the first few times and you're going to keep shooting and shooting and you're going to get better and better at it. That's what we're doing here. We're practicing. We're practicing this conversation.

We're practicing >> like combining our lives together. We're practicing combining our money together. We're practicing, hey, how much do we need for groceries this month? We're practicing all these things.

>> And you have two in my and John, you jump in at any time. In my mind, you have two frameworks of conversation only.

I I've just been thinking about the future. Wouldn't it be cool if? And so you're just painting you're painting cool visions of the future that you see.

Man, I just I I can't keep thinking about like wouldn't it I just keep thinking about what it would feel if I didn't have debt and if we didn't have debt. And I was actually thinking about that and that would feel amazing. Right.

So all you're sharing is your feelings and your and your vision. Nothing that she has to do, nothing that she has to change. It's just you talking about you.

>> Bring it back to your childhood. I grew up in a house where we were all my my old man was always stressed about money.

>> And I have a dream for our kid to never know that kind of stress.

>> Yeah. >> If our kid makes the basketball team, I want to be able to get him the best shoes and not even think about it.

>> Yes. >> Right. And so what you're doing is you're painting a picture. You're not lecturing with numbers. You get You get the You get what we're saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very true for me too in my past.

>> It was for most of us. and and you you

um inviting her out for a half-day dreaming retreat on, hey, we're having a baby. Both of us come from this background and she comes from that background. What do what do we envision us wanting our house to feel like when

our daughter or our son comes home and they're 12? What do you want the house to feel like?

>> Right? >> And we get to we get to construct that.

We get to build that up. Right? And often, not always, but often, a dude, I care less about my car. I want my house to feel like that one day.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And and so again, it sounds

counterintuitive to put the money aside for a second, but let's dream and get a a a crystal clear picture of what our vision for our life wants to look like and feel like, and then it's just a matter of reverse engineering it, and let's just build that thing out. >> Yeah. And Dean, I'm going to send you a copy of my book, What No One Tells You About Money, because it does a good job of, >> you know, when you're dealing with a framework like The Baby Steps. It shows how some people feel versus how other people feel.

And I think it'll really help you get an insight as to the way she might be feeling and it'll help you pinpoint how you might be feeling. And I think that's just really going to be good for you. Now, obviously, when it comes to the debt, when the time comes, when she's ready, when you're ready, yeah, I'm going to recommend the baby steps all the way. and we're gonna make sure you're set up with Every Dollar.

That's our wedding gift to you. We'll make sure you have Every Dollar. We'll make sure you have my book. We'll also give you uh Dave's book, The Total Money Makeover.

We're just going to load you up because I want you learning and learning and learning. And I want what I want is that every time she looks at you, you've got a piece of our material in your hand or in your face.

>> I'm going to make sure that you guys are doing well. I'm going to make sure we're successful." >> We got you, man. And hey, if it comes down to it, just tell her two goofballs on the radio gave you um a year of the best budgeting app on the planet, Every Dollar. And invite her to use it with you cuz it was free.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go

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Today's scripture is Proverbs 16:24.

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

Elizabeth Elliot says, "Lord, deliver me from the urge to open my mouth when I should shut it." >> Oh, man. I need to get that tattooed on my forearm. >> I know. That's right. >> That's a good one right there. Let's go out to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and talk to Emma. Hey, Emma. What's going on?

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How are you?

>> I'm pretty good. I have a question. My husband and I are on our debt snowball.

So, we're on baby step two and my husband has um irregular work. So, he is

a a flat rate motorcycle mechanic. So,

most of his money is made um March,

well, more like April through September.

Um and then we take a big pay cut. So, we looked at what the minimum is to live

during the winter, and we kind of estimated that we need about $700 a month during the busy season to put into a scing fund so that we would be good for the winter. But, um, I was we were

looking at the minimums. If we pay off what we think we're going to pay off in debt by September, then we wouldn't need

any additional money because all of those minimums would be gone. >> That's great. >> So, yeah. So, we're wondering, do we just make the sinking fund and then if October comes and we don't need it, we

just throw that to debt or do we hold it just in case through the winter since there's no way to like make really extra money for him? Why is there no I believe

that there is a way that either of you can make $700 extra a month.

>> Yeah. Teach me about flat rate motorcycle mechanic. What does that mean? I never heard that term. >> So So it's a it's a form of commission

and in so essentially like if you are

billing you know let's say it's the the

customer has build 10 hours for a job.

If you can do the job in 5 hours, you still get paid 10 hours, >> okay, >> worth of work. So, you can essentially do 90 hours of work in a 40-hour work

week. >> Okay. >> Um, but there is there are no motorcycles being ridden really in Michigan in the winter. >> Okay. Gotcha. So, it's kind of like yall are farmers.

>> Yeah. So, it's not like you can just magically make extra motorcycles come in. Still has to be there.

>> Could he go work at a a mechanic shop

working on cars.

>> No, they're not. They're not the same.

And he has to be at the motorcycle shop, >> right? But I'm thinking, okay, you're saying that $700 is the deficit monthly.

Um I I just believe in the winter,

right? And I'm thinking of I don't know, teachers or or pastors or people who kind of it's like this is my main job, but I also need a side gig. Um I $700 is

not a a scary number to go out and make

for a month. And so I'm wondering and rather than you guys having to be like squirrels and it being at a detriment to your baby step too, I just feel like you've got time between now and September to say let's pinpoint um work

that we do in the winter months um on top of what's already there for us to pull in $700. And I just think that that's a great practice anyway. You're talking 2,800 bucks, right? Is it four?

I guess the Michigan winner is 9 months long, right? How long How long are you talking? >> It's about It's about 6 months.

>> Okay. So, you need you need 3,600 bucks, right? >> Yeah. Yep. >> Or 4,200 bucks. >> And what do you do?

>> Me? >> Yeah. >> Uh ministry work. >> Okay. So, I I got to believe >> I have two side hustles already.

>> Okay.

>> I tapped out and we have four kids.

>> Okay. So, that's kind of what's making me think that there's more to this because side hustles are there to for

like sprints. >> I wouldn't want this to be something that's um I want you guys to be able to lock in and have this money without having to >> Does that make sense? I don't want to be a detriment to your baby step, too.

>> If you're a farmer, you work all year and you get paid in one or two big chunks, right?

>> Mhm. And so you have to budget those two big chunks as though and spread it out over the year.

>> And so I I'm with Jade like I I would love to see y'all be able to say, "Okay, we need $4,200 extra dollars over the course of a year." Yes. >> Can we scratch and claw and figure that out? If you're telling us no, there's 0% chance. We're are we're scratching and clawing to get to we only need $4,200 left, >> then yeah, very tight. It's a matter of budgeting 700 bucks in the good months and putting it into a syncing fund of $4,200 and we're going to withdraw from it for six months.

>> But we wouldn't need that if we do pay off the stuff we were planning on paying off. We just wouldn't be putting anything toward the snowball in those months. That that's kind of why I'm saying what I'm saying, which is why delay your snowball payoff if you can commit to by September we're going to be

debtree, but we also know that we might

not have enough money. So during that next sprint, we can come up with ways to make an extra if we need it. Does that make sense? >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Because >> I hadn't thought about that. If you continue to aggressively do your snowball, you're not setting aside the $700, by September, you're debtree, right? >> No, we would just have I we're looking at 24 months before we're >> So then for two years for two years, you have to fill the $700 gap, >> right?

>> Well, no, we would just So, if we were to take off, we have six things we're thinking we're going to have paid off by September.

again if you pay off those few and you get those minimums back great but if you can

keep your foot on the gas and you can say hey let's pick up whatever work we can until this this all of the debt is completely gone that's I mean I would tell anybody to do that >> okay >> and And once the 2 years is over, all the debt is gone. Everything, then you can do what John said, which is yes, now we take our lump sum of money and we spread it evenly over the 12 months and we're good to go.

>> Yeah, because we're just still trying to figure out the budgeting and so the the concern is there's no way to like for him to to build the extra money. So,

that's the concern is that it's kind of an unknown charted territory.

>> Mhm. Now, I do feel like for irregular incomes, I'm thinking of people like realtors uh where it's just like, yeah, I don't know monthtomonth. It's great to It's always good to be to have a month's worth of expenses just sitting in your account. So, essentially, you're always a month ahead.

In your case, that might benefit you guys. you might feel a lot better to just always have that money there because if you don't know necessarily what's coming in monthtomonth then that's a great practice to have, right?

volatile, you know, kind of irregular person. It's like if I don't know that I'm going to make my whole month, I want to know that the month is there. And I I would do that, but beyond that, I would

make sure my goal would be to not have to touch that money if that were the case. >> Okay. Yeah, we we are lucky because we do know a minimum of what he's going to make. So, we have that figured out. Um he makes a bare minimum just for being there. >> And is that enough to cover?

>> It's it's not that's why it's $700 short, but that's it. We don't have these payments. But if we pay the two cars off, that's 900 right there. That's gone. >> Done. >> Okay. So tell me about a good month.

What happens? You know, obviously there's What's a good month look like?

How much over does he go? Yeah.

>> Over what he regulate like what the winter months are.

>> Um sometimes about $8,000.

>> Oh.

So I feel like I feel like there's way

more money on the table here.

>> Yes. So, you're telling me on the months where he goes like crazily over that doesn't give you the $3,600 that you need? >> It does, but we've been putting it toward the debt right now. >> But I mean, and then some.

>> And then some. Yes. So, we've been putting it toward debt. So, that's why we all of it's going toward debt minus that 700 right now.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, I my advice doesn't change, but I think there's more money here than meets the eye.

>> Yeah. How long How long do you pay these cars off? Uh, well, we just paid one off today.

>> Congratulations. >> Thank you. And then the next one will be paid off in two weeks. >> That's exciting. >> Oh, what? Emma, why are you calling us?

>> Because I'm not sure if because it says the irregular income thing. So, I got kind of hung up on that. >> Well, you don't have an irregular income. You have a regular income.

>> Okay. It's just it fluctuates significantly, >> but the the gross total is the same annually.

>> Yes. >> Like you you don't get paid every two weeks or every month, but you get paid a few times a year. >> We It gets paid every other every other week, but it can range by $30,000 a

year, >> but you you know that range based on the time of month, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Well, that's it for the Ramsay Show, Jade.

>> Yes. Thanks for letting me sit in your shadow today.

>> Remember, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 166. The All-New EveryDollar: Where Margin Meets Momentum


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48bAJbNnCp4) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:27 |

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Good morning, sweetheart.

>> Got to get going.

And she also like Julian back. She gives

her back to back. First back up when you were playing.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome to Ramsay headquarters, everybody. Everybody, we are so excited that you're here. If you want to build real wealth as fast as possible, you're exactly where you need to be right now.

I'm Rachel Cruz, joined by my two Ramsay Show co-hosts, George Camel and Jade Warshaw. And we cannot wait to tell you about the allnew Every Dollar app.

>> It's here, Jade. >> So excited. >> It's like Christmas morning and we get to be Santa delivering the good gifts.

>> I know. That's right. Listen, as soon as I heard about the results that users are seeing with this new version of Every Dollar, man, I got fired up. Guys, this is going to revolutionize the way that you take control with your money and help you build wealth faster than ever.

>> Yep. And it doesn't get much faster than finding $3,015 of margin in just 15 minutes to put toward your money goals. But that's exactly what's happening for the average Every Dollar user. And guys, that's just the first month. These users are finding tens of thousands of dollars in margin in their first year. And just to make sure we're all on the same page, when we say margin, we're talking about that extra money above and beyond your essential expenses that gives you breathing room and helps you get ahead.

>> And you guys, we know from taking your calls on the Ramsey Show every day just how much of a difference that number could make. We know that some of you are really anxious about living paycheck to paycheck. Some of you feel guilty that you haven't saved enough for the future.

And some of you feel like you just can't get ahead, no matter how many sacrifices you make. >> Chances are you've got more margin than you think in the proverbial couch cushions of your life. And the allnew Every Dollar will help you find it.

>> Yeah. We'll show you how quick and easy the process is in just a few minutes.

But first, we've got to talk about how most Americans got to the point of not having breathing room when it comes to their money. Because if you don't understand that, any margin you do find has a pretty good chance of disappearing all over again.

Living without money margin sucks. It's

stressful. It's frustrating. It's a brutal way to live. So, how did we get

here?

>> Well, for decades, we've been sold the same message over and over again. Spend,

spend, spend some more. You deserve it.

>> Yes, everybody's buying more and more.

>> There's a product for every problem and a payment plan for every product. That's the American way.

>> You need to eat better, sleep better, drive better, look better, live better, you're only a purchase away.

And while marketers convinced us to spend, financial companies made spending easier than ever before.

Credit cards, personal loans, buy now pay later. Tap your phone, poof, the money's gone. The problem is, no one

told you what happens if you try to live that way. So, what does happen? Well, if

you're like most people, you graduate from school and get your first job. But wait, those student loans you took out, well, apparently the lenders want that money back. And that car you bought, well, the new car smell is gone, but the payments stuck around. Throw in the credit card damage, and all of a sudden, things feel really tight.

But it's fine, right? You're just getting started. Once you're making more money, it'll all work out. A few years go by and you are making more money, which means more breathing room. Problem solved, right? Nope.

You bought the house, took the trip, financed the kids braces, and those student loans still there. Credit cards,

can't get rid of those. You should be able to live comfortably on what you make. But things somehow feel tighter than ever. Hopefully that makes you mad.

Like really mad.

But a lot of us have gotten mad about the wrong things. Remember the uproar about $9 eggs? Sure, inflation is very

real and nobody should be paying $9 for eggs, but that's not really what's holding you back. Your problem is your paycheck's already spent before you even see it. And living off the scraps, it's

exhausting. So here's the harsh truth.

It's not all your fault, but it is your responsibility. If nothing changes, then stress, anxiety, and paycheck to paycheck living is not just today's problem. It's your future.

But you don't have to stay stuck. You can break the paycheck to paycheck cycle. You can create real margin.

You can afford the things you want the right way. But to get new results, you

need a new plan. Are you ready?

[Music]

Building wealth doesn't happen on accident. You need a plan. If you're not intentional with your money, you'll always be wondering where your money went, feeling like you can't get ahead.

But with the right plan, you can make real progress towards your money goals faster than you ever thought possible.

And that's exactly what the Ramsay plan has helped millions of people do for more than 30 years. The Ramsay plan has

a 100% success rate. If you do it, you

will build wealth. This isn't hype or theory. The plan works every time. And

here at Ramsay Solutions headquarters, we meet couples every single day who are

doing this plan. And people that have paid off all of their debt, you guys, they're no one special. They've just done it. It's single moms. It's couples with young kids. It's an elderly couple from Atlanta that paid off their house.

I mean, you meet everyone from every walk of life. The only common thread is

that they do it. And the next success story can be yours. The Ramsay Plan

shows you how to do it all, from beating debt to building wealth and everything in between. But once you know the plan, you've got to work the plan. And there's no better way to do that than with the all-new Every Dollar app. Every Dollar

helps you find margin that you need to make real progress towards your money goals. But every dollar doesn't just stop there. It shows you how to use that margin so you can build wealth and you can start to feel in control of your money. And when you are in control of your money, you guys, you sleep at night.

You have peace. You have clarity to make decisions about your life and your money.

are already seeing big wins. You guys, in the last year alone, Every Dollar users turned more than $2 billion dollar of margin into debt paid and dollars saved. And that's not a guess. Those are real results from people just like you who are using Every Dollar to work the Ramsay plan faster than ever. The plan

works and the new Every Dollar is here

and you're the next success story. So take control of your money and your future starting today.

Millions of people have made a financial comeback by following the Ramsay plan, including yours truly. Back in 2013, I had $40,000 in consumer debt between my student loans and my credit card debt.

And my plan wasn't cutting it. And once I found the Ramsey plan, I got out of that debt in 18 months. And get this, over a 10-year period, I went from broke with a negative net worth to millionaire just by following the plan. Nothing fancy. And Jade, your story is really similar, except you had a few more zeros on the end. >> That's right. Just a few more. $460,000 of debt. I know it's breathtaking, but

we were able to work through it. It took us seven and a half years to pay off all that debt. And we did it working the Ramsay plan, proven plan. But I'm telling you, if we had had something like this, brand new Every Dollar, it would have changed things.

We would have done it in half the time. >> I love it. And I love your stories because what's great is you both started in different places, but you still achieved your financial goals, which you were wanting, which is just absolutely amazing.

future. That is why we are so excited that the allnew Every Dollar is here and

it has everything that you need to work the Ramsay plan faster than ever before.

Yeah, I'm really excited about it because inside the app there's so much that's fresh and new. And our team actually went all out because their only goal was to help you build wealth fast.

And if you've used Every Dollar before and you're going, "Yeah, George, I know.

I know what every dollar is." No, it's completely different now. This is a budget with an opinion that wants to see you win. So, take that Excel spreadsheet with your formulas that I always find an error with. Why is it always an error with the formulas? >> It always happens. >> I don't like cells at all. >> Now, listen. For starters, the new Every Dollar will instantly give you personalized recommendations for how to create margin. And like we said earlier, the average new user finds more than $3,000 of margin in just 15 minutes to

apply to their first budget. And what I think is even better is that this app is going to show you the best thing to do with that margin based on our proven plan because the Ramsay plan is literally built into the app. So you don't have to wonder if you're taking the right next step. Every Dollar will tell you that you are.

>> Exactly. So there's no more second guessing yourself all the time. The allnew Every Dollar is going to let you know based on your goals what you need to do today. >> And whatever that next step is, you'll have your budget right there in the same app, one tap away.

It's still part of the app and it's better than ever. It's not going away.

>> Yeah. And my favorite part is that the allnew Every Dollar includes personalized coaching based on your money situation. >> Yeah, guys, this is a big deal. The personalized coaching is what will help you work faster and smarter, not harder.

And like I said before, I wish my husband Sam and I had something like this when we were getting serious about changing our money habits. >> Well, instead of just talking about it, let's be about it. Why don't we take these people on a quick test drive and show them the new Every Dollar in action.

All right, guys. By now, you can see the allnew Every Dollar is way more than just a budgeting app. Now, it's time to show you how that process works. For starters, Every Dollar is now hyperpersonalized because one-sizefits-all money advice isn't great. And if you've listened to the Ramsay Show, you know our common sense principles never change. But how those principles apply might look a little different depending on your situation.

It's kind of like the difference between me wearing my dad's suit jacket versus having one tailored to me. You want it to feel like it was made for you. And that's why finding margin with every dollar starts with some simple onboarding questions to completely customize your experience in the app.

You'll see questions about your top money priorities, your income, your family situation. Every dollar will even ask you how many minutes you want to spend each day learning how to hit your money goals faster. Only got five minutes. We can work with that. Now, this is important. It's not a quiz.

There's no right or wrong answers. You don't need to know your exact numbers to the decimal point. Your answers, just make sure Every Dollar's advice fits your life, not someone else's. So, just give it your best shot.

It'll take you less than 15 minutes. And trust me, it's worth every second. Here's why. The better Every Dollar knows you, the more opportunities it can find to maximize your margin.

And that's what this is all about. Reminder, margin is that extra money above and beyond your essential expenses that gives you breathing room and helps you get ahead.

But now, every dollar saves you the brain calories. It will analyze your situation and build you a custom list of recommendations for creating more margin. And get this, the average user finds eight recommendations. Then every dollar will show you exactly how much money you could free up if you try all the recommendations on your list.

And that money might come from one-time recommendations like selling something or ongoing monthly recommendations like adjusting your tax withholdings or cutting back on eating out. Every dollar will also show you how those recommendations translate to yearly margin. But like the name implies, all these margin finding ideas are just recommendations. You're the CFO here, so you get to decide what stays and what goes.

You could decide to do none of these and free up zero dollars, or you could decide to do all of them and free up way more. As you go through your recommendations one by one, it'll help you understand why they're a good fit for your money situation. If you like a recommendation, great. Tap the commit button.

If not, no big deal. Hit nope and on to the next. You also have the power to edit recommendations.

When you're finished deciding how much cash you want to free up, every dollar will calculate the margin you've officially found based on your commitments. So, the initial number you saw was the margin that every dollar found for you. But the new number based on your commitments is what you're actually saying yes to. And that's money you already have just waiting to be freed up.

All you have to do is keep those commitments you made, which we can all agree is kind of the hard part. But we thought of that, too. Every dollar will also keep you from falling off the wagon. For starters, the app will have a custom to-do list right there on your dashboard.

This list is unique to you based on the recommendations you committed to. And as you start checking off your list and creating margin, you can just tap over to your every dollar budget to make sure that money gets put to good use. You'll also be able to connect your bank account and seamlessly track transactions to keep that margin from disappearing ever again.

But that's all just the tip of the iceberg. We've shown you how Every Dollar helps you change your behaviors and figure out what to do, which is great because we know that personal finance is 80% behavior, but it's also 20% head knowledge. And if you're like most people, you didn't learn about all this money stuff growing up. Nobody taught you until now.

With every dollar, you'll get a personalized feed of bite-sized tidbits to help you master money and understand why you're doing what you're doing. The app will only serve you content that actually applies to your situation.

So, as you can see, every dollar is now way more than just a budgeting app. With margin finding recommendations, your personalized plan, and ongoing coaching, the app will help keep you on track and moving forward. And in our 30-year history, we've never seen results like these. Our users are hitting their money goals faster than ever before.

And what we found is that the coaching experience is what makes all the difference.

It's time to take the guesswork out of winning with money so you can stop wasting time and start building wealth.

Hey, you guys asked for this and we delivered. I'm so happy that the new Every Dollar is here to help you with personalized coaching so that you can finally stick to a proven plan for your money. It's the same plan my husband Sam and I used when we looked up and found ourselves in half a million dollars of debt. I mean, we started the plan with a lot of enthusiasm, but pretty quickly and we realized there was still a lot we didn't know.

Every day we had questions because the truth is there's actually a lot of nuance to working this Ramsay plan. It can be a lot to remember. I mean, sometimes we got so focused on one part of the plan that by the time we finished that step, we'd forgotten what we were supposed to do next. For instance, we knew we were supposed to do a zerobased budget, but that doesn't mean we're supposed to have zero dollars in the account, right?

Well, the allnew Every Dollar will give you the answer, which by the way is of course not. Or let's just say you finish paying off your debt and you know you need to be saving money next, but you don't know exactly how much you need in that emergency fund. Again, the new Every Dollar is going to tell you exactly what you need. I mean, even if you listen to the Ramsay show every single day, which by the way, Sam and I did, you still can't memorize every word.

So, because of that, we actually made a lot of mistakes. And honestly, we wasted a lot of time trying to figure things out as we went. Now, I'm proud to say that eventually we did pay off our debt completely and we transformed our money situation.

could have moved so much faster had we had someone coaching us through the plan. That is why I'm so excited that the new Every Dollar is here. This app, guys, is like having your own personal Ramsy coach in your pocket 247. The

allnew Every Dollar will show you exactly what to do based on your real numbers and your budget and your real goals. Just like George showed you a moment ago, this app gives you personalized recommendations for freeing margin right away. But this is about

more than just numbers. The allnew Every Dollar is going to help you create a completely new money mindset. You'll get

personalized coaching through quick and easy money lessons that build your confidence where you need it most. And as you start applying what you learn, the new Every Dollar will help you stay focused thanks to personalized texts and notifications. Now, don't worry. I already hear what you're thinking.

Opting in. It's not going to get you spammed, but it will keep you on track.

For example, let's say you forget to check your budget for a few days. The new Every Dollar will send you a gentle nudge to get back into the game. Okay, that is all incredible, but here's the thing that really sets the app apart.

With the allnew Every Dollar, you also get daily access to real human beings.

Okay, our Every Dollar team back there host a free group coaching call every weekday where you can get your questions answered live. Now, these group calls, they're perfect for those times when you need a little extra guidance, right? a little budgeting refresher, help with irregular income, or even how to get on the same page with your spouse. My husband, Sam, and I, we had none of this when we started out.

But we did have the Ramsay show, and I even called in a couple of times to ask questions. And when I got off of those calls, I had so much confidence about what my next step would be. And this app, guys, is going to give you that same feeling of hope and encouragement every single day without the hold music.

You've got places to go and wealth to build and the allnew Every Dollar is the fastest way to get there. We're already seeing incredible results from users across the country. So, let's take a look. [Music]

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

[Music]

Man, I love seeing Every Dollar users working the Ramsay plan the right way.

Did you notice them making their own pizza for dinner instead of eating out?

They're making margin and memories. We love to see it. Oh man, I love when people choose to eat at home just to save money. It's great. >> Yeah, exactly. You guys, these users are proof that the app actually works. And the allnew Every Dollar is helping people just like you break the cycle of paycheck to paycheck living and finally take control of their money. >> That's right. Reaching your money goals is possible. And every dollar makes getting there easier than ever.

Remember, the average new user finds more than $3,000 in margin in just 15 minutes to apply to their first budget.

And that's money you already have that needs to be put to work. And now Every Dollar gives you a clear plan for using that margin to get out of debt and start building wealth step by step. No guesswork. This app really is like having a Ramsey coach in your pocket keeping you focused and guiding you along the way.

>> Yeah, exactly. Guys, you don't have to do this alone. With the allnew Every Dollar, you'll have access to group coaching and one-on-one help and encouragement from real human beings who care about your success. Hey, the truth is every dollar is more than just an app.

Guys, this is the turning point in your money.

Go download Every Dollar right now and start that free 14-day trial. Hey, if you're already an Every Dollar user, just tap the Today icon inside the app to activate your new dashboard and take the next step. You've got nothing to lose but your stress and you've got everything to gain. Yeah. Seriously, you guys, do not wait on this. Go do it right now. >> Yeah. Quit saying, "One day I'm going to get out of debt. One day I'll start investing." This is day one. Get started now. We're cheering you on.

[Applause] [Music]

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## 167. The Annual Giving Show: A Celebration of Radical Generosity | December 19, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `6MjMm8Tpdqk` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MjMm8Tpdqk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:53:24 |

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. George Camel Ramsey [music] personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

The Bible says that God loves

a cheerful giver.

Generosity is possibly one of the most important financial principles that you can bring into your life.

When you give

steadily, regularly as a rhythm of your

life, it changes you. It changes the

attitude of your heart, the positioning

of your heart. And you move along the spectrum from selfish to selfless.

Someone that has been giving for a long

time and giving a lot for a long time is

some of the most selfless, generous people we call them. And and they're the ones that hold the door for you at the grocery store.

They're the ones that help you pick up the cans of soup that are rolling around in the parking lot because the cheap plastic bag broke.

Generous people are generous people

>> and they're more attractive. We all want to hang out with those kinds of people. >> They do. And and you know, and they tend to prosper for that reason because they're more attractive. I mean, if you think about it, who would you rather do business with? Let's say you're person that fixes your car. someone that has a heart of generosity and the car in the bay next to you is a 32 year old lady

who's lost her husband in the military and he's donating the repair on her car

and she's sitting in the lobby with you telling you that this guy's taking care of her. Would you rather to have your car fixed there or the guy who is going

to squeeze every dime out of everybody?

And we know the difference when you don't even have to know the difference to know the difference. How many of you have met with someone or you just had a conversation with someone and you finish the conversation, you go, I think I need a shower. Just feel gross after. This is a taker. This is not a giver. This is a

parasite. This is not someone that adds value. A and gosh, don't we all want to

be that? And we're inspired by it. And we teach people to live like no one else so that later they can live and >> give >> like no one else. And so this is our annual favorite show for George and me to get to do. We do it as one of our last broadcasts of the year. Every year we're heading up into Christmas where we celebrate God giving his only begotten son for our sins.

And those of us that are Christians, that's what we believe and that's what we know to be true. And he gave his only

begotten son. God is a giver and we're

made in his image. And so in our very spiritual DNA, we are designed to be givers. And when you're not giving, you're not functioning in your design.

When you start giving, you're more passionate. You're more creative.

Opportunities come your way because you're more attractive. Uh you your marriage is better.

>> You're more empathetic.

>> You're a better dad and a better mom when you give rather than take all the time. I mean, the the term that everybody throws around that's the opposite of giver is narcissist. and every you know it's way overused that everybody that is accused >> label anything you don't like anyone >> any anybody I don't anytime you don't like somebody now you have to call them a narcissist that's like a rule now on social media but they're not you're just you just got your little feelings hurt but the uh but still that that is you

know that's the opposite and said very selfentered self-oriented so today we're going to take calls and emails and stories

throughout the entire show all about giving so if you given something and you have a story that will inspire the rest of us to be better givers, bigger givers, more often givers because we're all in agreement right now that giving is the best thing you can do with money. It's the most fun you'll ever have with money. The most fun I've ever had with money is when we did a gift in person and you make someone cry >> cuz it blows their freaking mind. That's

the That's the most fun you'll ever have. And so, yeah, I'm known for making people cry, but not for that. So, but >> you're gonna cry in a good way today.

>> The good Dave is here. And >> if you make Dave cry, I guess we'll give you >> is here. So, oh, I cried an Applebee's commercial. What are you talking about, man? I cry all the time. But the uh um So, no, the we need to hear from you. We

want to hear your giving stories or your receiving stories. Inspire us to generosity today. The phone number is88255225.

Uh try to get it. I'm going to do it. All right. Uh Parido is with us. Hey, Parido. What's up?

>> Merry Christmas, Dave. What an honor.

>> It's an honor to be with you. Tell us your giving story.

>> Sure. So, a few years back, I was actually the recipient of outrageous gener generosity, and it's really changed my life. So, I was a single mom

without two nickels to rub together. And a lot of times by the end of the month, we were really struggling to get food on the table. A friend told me about a food

plant pantry that was out of a local church. So, I went to get some food. In line, I had to fill out a form with income information to confirm eligibility. When a church volunteer reviewed the details with me, he revealed that my income was actually above the threshold to where they could offer me assistance. So, I was literally

making too much to be that broke.

>> Wow. >> The really beautiful thing is he took the time to actually like talk about it with me. He asked me why I was coming for assistance when my income was so high. And I explained to him that my mortgage payment was about half of my income.

He did say that I could wait around to see if there's any extra food at the end or what they could scrge up for me kind of around the church, but I refused. And with tears in my eyes, I told him that I didn't want to take food away from the people who need it more than I do. That I was fine because I had a bag of oranges in the car, a half a bag of oranges that I was going to take back to the grocery store to get us through the rest of the month.

Uh he paused and he said that he'd like to help me out and asked me to drive around and meet him in the parking lot. So I did as he was getting something out of his car. When I parked, he came over to my window and shoved four crisp $50 bills in my hands and I just lost it.

cried and prayed together. With this gesture, he actually doubled my grocery budget for the entire month. And you know, Dave, it was really the catalyst that I needed for my life. I re-evaluated my finances and my living situation. And over the next two years, I got out of debt and doubled my income.

And to this day, I just remember Mike was his name. And just his outrageous generosity and the Holy Spirit flowing through him as he offered me help without any hesitation or judgment.

>> Wow. Wow, >> that's powerful.

>> It really is. >> And you can't help but look for opportunities to do that now that you're on your feet, right?

>> No, absolutely. I'm glad you said that because every year I like to pay forward his generosity and I'll go and tip some hardworking waitress $200 on Christmas.

Uh all in 50s. You know, there's something about a $50 bill.

>> Amen. >> Yeah. >> Amen. And there's something more about four of them. [laughter] >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

That's powerful. Thank you for sharing that. That's good. That's exactly what we need today. >> I already got the grin on my face. I think it's going to stick there for a while. >> It's going to be stuck there. God's spirit moving through Mike and said, "Well, the can't go by the rules. I'm not going to violate the rules, but I am going to go make sure that this single mom gets something more than a bag of oranges." >> Yeah. >> Do for one what you wish you could do for many. Scale the unscalable.

>> I love it. Very well done. Well played,

Mike, wherever you are.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. >> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[music]

It's our annual giving show. You know, no one stops and talks about it very much, but on a given year, for instance,

the year 2025, Americans are by far, no one's even

close, per capita, and in total, the

most generous nation on the planet.

Now, it's kind of in vogue to be hating on America if you're in Europe and you think you're cool or whatever bull crap that is. But the truth is we're way more generous than you.

That's the truth. That's the actual data. Last year, Americans gave over $600 billion dollars to charities and

ministries all over the world. From

Hungry Kids to St. hospitals to

anything you can think of where someone's hurting and someone needs some help. American dollars from Americans pockets, not government programs, individuals privately giving, give more

annually than the entire gross domestic product of a lot of countries.

That's what we produce here.

That's interesting if you think about it because we are based on a Judeo-Christian ethic whether you all like it or not. And um that's the truth.

And you know part of the Judeo-Christian

ethic, the Jewish religion, the Christian religion is built into both of those is a steady flow of generosity,

a steady flow of caring for widows and orphans, a steady flow of having a heart for the broken.

And uh it's pretty amazing what we do and no one really talks about it. Uh but it's still there even in spite of we might not even agree on why it's there but it's still there and the generosity is still flowing. >> Wow. And is that is was that one year?

>> That's one year. >> Wow. That's pretty impressive.

>> Yeah. That's >> even per person. >> It's according to the experts at Google but yeah >> we trust them. >> Yeah. Sort of. The intelligence is artificial so be careful. But you know, but you know, it is it is. And here's the other thing. There's a lot that's what's recorded. And so if it's 600

billion recorded, then we know it's a trillion. >> If you gave me $10,000 right now, they have no way to track it. I think we should test that theory. >> Doesn't show up.

Yeah. It's only the if you have a 501c3, you you file what's called a 990 with the IRS. You file a a tax return saying what you have received from others, and that would be one of the places you'd gather this information. But an individual helping another individual or people doing things in cash, no one ever knows that.

Uh that only comes under the lens of God's spirit. He sees it, but no one else does. No one else knows it happened.

John is in Canada. John, tell us your

giving story.

>> You bet. Thanks for having me. >> Sure. >> Um I uh was on the receiving end. Um, so

brief summary, I did something very dumb and invested in in something which turned out to be a very elaborate, very welldone investment

scam. And I always thought people who

fell for these things were were kind of silly, but I was the silly one in this case. So ultimately, all told, we lost

uh A MILLION DOLLARS. >> WHOA. IN THAT >> YEAH. And that's Canadian, so it's like 40 grand American. So [laughter] yeah,

>> anyway, >> that's funny. >> But John's got it. It was a big problem.

Um, so we we had to sell our home.

>> Um, which was was a big big issue. We

had about $700,000 of equity in our home, but we still owed about 300,000.

So we had to move to a rental. And u I

thought I would die in that home and be buried in the backyard. That's what I had hoped for. And um, >> it's gone. >> That was not to be. >> Wow. One day my aunt comes over and

she's she's a single lady, godly woman.

I never knew how what her financial state was cuz she's not advertising it

and whatever, but I think she saved her money through her life. Uh anyway, super conservative. Um and uh she she shows

her love by g like acts of service. So, she was like, "I want to come over bring a meal for you guys cuz we have young twin boys that we had adopted through this process or at the beginning of the protest." And uh at dinner one day, she just says, "Hey, um how bad are things

like financially? I know I know something's happened. That's why you sold your home, but like how bad is it?" And I and I told her and I said like I don't know how I'm going to get through Thursday and it's Tuesday because we I borrowed and there was these massive business loans that were $15,000 a month

was the payment on them and uh that was going to happen for about six more months. So she said, "Well, I want to help." And I said, "Really?" Like I was not expecting this at all. Never received anything. Um and uh and she said, "Yep. How many months do you think you need?" And I'm like, I don't know, maybe three would be amazing, right? And and she said, okay, I'm going to write you a check for $5,000 for three months.

Every month, five grand. And uh she

ended up changing that to four months.

So she ended up giving us a total of $20,000. This was at the absolute lowest

point where I was very, very seriously considering bankruptcy. And uh from her

generosity and the grace of God, we were able to just scrape and claw our way day by day through this mess. And uh yeah,

anyway, now we're in a much better place and we're we will be debtree sometime in

the next six or seven months. >> Way to go. >> And uh she >> was huge. She was unbelievable. Just a

silent, generous, kind-hearted lady.

never judged what was, you know.

>> Yeah. You had enough shame without anybody shaming you, right?

>> Correct. >> That's where I was. I remember that. I looked in the mirror and I saw stupid tattooed on my forehead. Yeah. You don't need You don't need anybody to pile on to that, right? And she just wrote you a check and smiled and brought a casserole. Yeah. I mean, my gosh.

>> Yeah. And she's done that like many times. like keeps bringing over food, keeps doing things and and she's shown up for every one of my daughter's volleyball games and like she's just she's just there. She's just a presence and uh and her name is Louise and she

would hate me saying that cuz she's very much like keep it quiet, but um anyway,

whatever. >> Everybody needs to be more like Louise.

That's the moral of the story, John.

Good qu good good story. Thank you for sharing that. >> Love that. Yeah, it's a good reminder that a lot of times that generosity is invisible and it's from the the people who are the quietest. They're not it's not the loud, showy people.

Yeah, they generally have nothing. That's why they're loud and showy. But yeah, that's how it works. [laughter]

Zoe's in Omaha, Nebraska. Merry Christmas, Zoe. Tell us your giving story. >> Merry Christmas. Huge fan. Been listening to you since I was 16.

>> Wow. Thank you.

>> Um, >> how's 17 treating you?

Uh, I'm 27 now actually. But, [laughter]

>> um, no, my story. I was 19 and I had a

job way out of my league, but I tried it and I got it. And part of my job was um

to interact with the elderly people. And

um for Christmas, I picked people who didn't have family around um in my company bought bought hats, mittens,

puzzles for those people who didn't have family around to celebrate Christmas with. Moral of the story, I was dropping off one of my gifts to one of my um people. And it was actually a younger person um probably 60s. They had kids at

home. I walked into their home. I could see daylight through their house. Um,

and the pair of gloves and hat and um,

other gift that I gave them I knew wasn't enough. So, I felt and they were so grateful just for that. But, I felt called to go and get them more. So, I

went and spent my own money um around

$500 um on snow pants and snow boots and

warm stuff and some Christmas toys for the kids and toothbrushes and stuff like that. Um while I was at the store, I ran into two people who um I told what I was

doing. They also gave me $100 each. So,

that was like $700 I got um of stuff for them. I brought it

back to them. We all had tears in our eyes. Um, >> you were you were 19 years old.

>> I was 19 and $500 was a lot of money for

me. >> That's a lot of money. Yeah.

>> Um, but I just felt like it was right.

And the feeling that I felt giving it to them, I think felt better than how they

felt. But it felt so amazing and it's

like something I will cherish forever.

>> Amen. Well done, Zoe. Proud of you. Wow.

that the impact that has on the giver just as powerful if not more than on the receiver. >> Changes you changes you permanently.

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>> [bell]

[bell]

>> If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. You track your progress.

You get personalized recommendations, coaching for your situation, help you free up more money, work the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step, and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or at Google Play. It's our annual giving show, Crystals in Arizona. I keep a stash of $20 bills in my wallet just for

restaurant birthday emergencies. The second I hear the happy birthday song, I'm already across the room handing the bewildered birthday person a $20 bill and announcing it's a family tradition.

They don't know if I'm generous, unhinged, or both, but the act has created an incredible amount of surprising joy. >> I love that. You know, why not be both?

>> Why not? >> Unhinged generosity is a fun category.

>> No, this stranger just had to be at 20 just cuz somebody sung happy birthday and then you found out they were singing happy birthday just to get the free cake and it wasn't really their birthday. But anyway, yeah. and free $5 bill along with [laughter] not a bad deal.

>> I love it. Angela is in Witchah, Kansas.

Hey, Angela. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas, Dave.

>> What's up?

>> Not too much. I'm blessed and want to

share a story with you of something crazy I did. >> Okay, do it.

>> So, when I was a kid in the 90s, my mom uh saw Mazda Miatas and she loved the

Mazda Miata. It's a little two-seater convertible. >> Yeah, I remember. She never would buy anything like that because it wasn't practical and they didn't have money for things like that. But when I was like seven, I promised her that I would buy her one someday. And so fast forward 20 years and a few years ago, I saw one for

sale and it had we had just finished

harvesting and so we had a little bit of extra money and I bought it for her with my husband and we uh left the for sale

tag in the window, but we changed the phone number. And so a few days later, we met up with my mom and we parked it in the parking lot down a few stalls from us. And when she pulled up, she saw that it was for sale and she said, "I might be able to buy that my Miata." And when she called, we told her, "It's yours, Mom." And so she was super excited cuz she had just heard the song, "How do miracles just happen like that on the radio?" And uh then she got her

dream car. So it was a >> I like the way you gave the gift as much as the gift. That's pretty funny.

>> So creative. >> Very creative. It's out of a movie. I mean, you had to know her well enough to know she would act on that, right?

Instead of just seeing the sign and going, "I'll never and never call." And and then you'd be screwed. You have to figure out some other way to do it. But you knew she'd call that number. That's great. >> Oh, yeah.

>> So, how old was she when she got it,

>> boy? Um, she's 74 now. Well, she'll be

74, so 72

probably. >> She's still driving it.

>> She is. She loves that car. I won't say how fast she goes in it, but that's kind of scary. [laughter] But she loves to drive that around. She still calls it GG for God's gift, and she um she remembers the day she got it and everything. She'll remember that anniversary every year, probably for the rest of her life. >> Wow, that's very great car nickname, too. >> Yeah, that's great. Well done, Angela.

Well played. That's how you do it. You know, the creative methodology. So, we did a video and I'm trying to think if it's u posted on YouTube on our massive

YouTube channel that has eight bazillion videos on it. But a friend of mine, we

probably did this video that our team did the video with him. Um friend of mine found his when he was a kid, his

dad sold a antique car that he had had

uh to a friend who collected cars because he needed money. His dad was a pastor and they didn't have the money to keep the car. So he got rid of the car, feed the kids, and 25 years later, that

guy that was the collector still had the car. And my friend went and bought it from him and gave it to his dad.

>> Wow. >> And you talk about eyes leaking everywhere. It was pretty cool. And the guy gave him a good deal because he figured out what he was doing. He didn't he didn't, you know, >> so he liked the fact that it was a generosity surprise. >> Yeah. So he made a made a better deal on it. and and you know, but he still and I'm trying to remember the trying to remember the model of the car, but it's like a 1930s 1940s vehicle and it had

been restored and everything and it was kind of a cool street rod type thing and they anyway this collector still had the car. He was in the same town that they all grew up in and he found him and found out he still had it and bought it and gave it back to his dad. It was a pretty cool video. That fits almost with the GG story right there with Angela.

Well done, Angela. That's well played.

Savannah's in Florida. Hey, Savannah.

Merry Christmas. What's your giving story? >> Merry Christmas, Dave and George. Thank you for having me. >> Sure.

>> My husband and I have been on Baby Steps 4 through six for several years, and we listen to your show every day. We've been inspired by your encouragement to be more generous, and we've heard your suggestions to provide necessities like groceries and gas and tires for the single mom. and we were completely sold on the idea, but we just weren't sure where to find these neighbors in need.

So, fast forward to summer of 2022 and we learn about a website called careportal.org.

And this is a national care sharing technology that connects a family in crisis with a local church through the professional support of an agency worker. The agency worker vets the needs

of the family and then enters the request on care portal for someone like me or any of your listeners to respond to. And the site allows you to filter by state and county so that you can keep your support local to your own community. >> Yeah. Cool.

And the the goal is to keep the biological family together and prevent the kids from entering foster care because there's a clear correlation between those kids and an increased risk for incarceration and homelessness and becoming a trafficking victim as an adult. >> Sure. Absolutely. >> So the personal story I wanted to share is that the very first request we responded to was for a 16-year-old girl whose mother had just died unexpectedly and her mom was her only parent.

So now on the worst day of her life, she has to move from Indiana down to Florida to live with her aunt. So she has no community around her in her time of immense grief and her aunt did not have the ability to provide a bed for her. So she's sleeping on a rented air mattress with a hole in it. And as God would have it, our son had just been born several months before and our guest room turned nursery had a full set of furniture with nowhere to go until now.

from a local church picked up the bed from my house and delivered it and assembled it for her. And this story really spoke to me because I lost my dad at that same age of 16. >> Oh, wow.

>> And I can just instantly take myself back to that first. >> Well, that's how you know this is a God assignment. This is not random.

>> No, not at all. >> This is straight up. Yeah, that's cool.

>> Yeah. Um, so I I remember, you know, the comfort that my bed provided me in in those sad times and I just pray that our gift did the same for this young lady.

And after that, we were hooked. So three and a half years later, we've responded to dozens of requests for all kinds of things. Diapers and wipes, sheets and pillows, car seats, groceries, and even washers and dryers.

>> Sound like you're having fun.

>> We are. You You are very right. It's the most fun we've ever had with money.

>> Yeah. Proud of you. That is very cool.

I'm proud of you. And it starts with a with a God assignment that lines up with your personal story. That's so >> That was fun. Let's do that again. Yeah.

>> And then it becomes a rhythm in your life and in your budget to go, "Hey, we're going to set money aside just to cover needs like this." >> Yeah. It does not get old either. It does not get old. Savannah, way to go.

Well done. Well done.

>> Thank you so much. >> So, how long ago was the bed deal? Three Three and a half years.

>> Three and a half years. Yeah. >> Okay. And so then you've just dozens and dozens of times since then. And you see the individual requests come through.

What was the name of that port? What's the name of that portal again? I don't know anything about it, but we'll put it out there again.

>> carePortal.org.

>> Okay, cool. Absolutely. Can't argue with that. That's good stuff. >> It looks like a real dialedin kind of gofundme because sometimes you're like, I don't know if this is real. I don't know the people behind this and this seems like they've done all the vetting for you to provide, hey, there's an exact need here that we know is legit.

Do you want to help? That's >> I'm not really mad about it, but I don't put any money in >> GoFundMe. Not mad about >> unless it's someone I know, you know, and they >> If I know them, I'm just going to give them the money. >> Yeah. >> I don't run it through GoFundMe.

>> That helps, too. Avoid all the fees.

>> Yeah. If I know what's going on, then I really know what's going on. I don't need GoFundMe.

So, but yeah. Anyway, uh that's a cool service, though. >> Way to go, Savannah. >> Yeah. >> Way to go. I love it. >> I like that it's it becomes almost addictive. You go, where's the next time? >> I'll tell you who uses GoFundMe well is Jimmy Darts. >> Oh, yeah. >> He does a great job of using GoFundMe.

He does a great job. If you want to see some generosity stuff, look that guy up.

Really cool. >> That'll make your eyes like

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Ramsay. Not in all states. And today we're switching it up with a giving story from van in Nebraska. Says, "I drive for Door Dash as a side hustle and some deliveries require us to collect the cash in person. Recently, I had a pizza order I delivered to a subsidized apartment complex to a single mom. When she opened the door to the apartment, she had six young kids running around.

Her apartment had no furniture, just a mattress in the middle of the room. When she gave me the $40 in cash for her order, I gave the 40 back to her and gave her 60 cash out of my pocket and told her, "Merry Christmas." Earlier that day, I had just watched an interview with Jimmy Darts on the Ramsay Show, which inspired me to give that lady her money back along with a little extra. Now, that's cool.

>> That's fun. So, he refunded her uh to

the amount of $60 plus the full.

>> So, she got 100 bucks in her pocket and a pizza. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Very cool. Jimmy will like that.

>> Oh, yeah. We got a We'll send him this clip. He'll be inspired by that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If you want to learn about generosity and uh just be following Jimmy on his YouTube show and and he's got a new book out as well about it. It's a good it's a good recommendation.

He's a friend of ours and proud of that young man and how he's inspired generosity. It's his full-time gig. is all he does and he's really really good at it. So check check him out and hey way to go.

That's a paying it forward and stuff happening because Jimmy's out there moving around. He don't even know what happened. Had nothing to do with him directly. Just him on here talking about it.

>> Yeah. >> So way to go. Very cool. >> Never know who you can inspire with your own generosity story.

>> Very cool.

Hey Tim, merry Christmas. What's your giving story?

>> Merry Christmas to both of you. >> You too. >> I Yes. I was picking my son up at his

school about a year ago, late October, and I parked in a spot next to the faculty lot, and I noticed a minivan,

and it been there, it parked there virtually every day that I had picked him up for weeks. And this one particular time, I just looked over the car. I was bored. And I noticed the tires were virtually bald. Uh, I looked

inside just to examine it. I didn't know which teacher it was or faculty member.

And I saw two baby seats as well. So I go home, talk to my wife because I was

thinking of buying four brand new tires for this individual and it would have been about 500 bucks which is about a hundred over our giving budget and every dollar. So my wife immediately agreed.

Uh we called up the principal, arranged for a uh exchange. So, I give him the cash and told him to please give it to

the individual that owned the light blue silver minivan. Um, did so. Two weeks

later, I come back and there were four brand new tires on the vehicle thankfully. Um, I wanted that to be

anonymous and it was certainly anonymous. uh to add an addendum. Um I

do know that I received my wife reminded

me I received a bonus January

of the following year. So three months later I received a $750 bonus from work

minus taxes approximately $500.

So I was blessed to give that young teacher with two young children four new snow tires. And by the way, we got blasted with snow last year. It was a record snowfall, so she certainly needed it. >> Wow.

>> Well, I like that God goes ahead and gives you a Holy Spirit wink with the giving you the money right back. I like that. >> That's awesome. >> And he goes, "Let's do that again." >> He's like, "Okay, I got to go.

Let's try this again. See how this works." Yeah, I like it. I'm going again for that.

>> Very cool. Good for you.

>> Good for you. And this you you do know who the teacher is, though, right?

>> Yes. I I I found out later on and uh it

wasn't my son's teacher, but a a young single teacher nonetheless. And uh definitely in need of that gift.

>> Yeah. Way to go, man. That's awesome.

All you got to do is keep your antennas up and stuff will step right in front of you and wave at you and go, "Hello." And then you go, "Oh, well that must be my assignment." Oh, that's how that works.

It's not accidental and it's not coincidental. There's no such thing. Way to go, Tim. Proud of you. Good work.

Dennis is in Columbus, Ohio. Dennis, tell us your giving story. Merry Christmas. >> Hey, merry Christmas to you guys. Hey.

Uh, so we've been out of Baby Step 7 since 2017. And initially, we had somebody going through um some issues at

one of the children's hospitals here in town. And for Christmas, we decided to donate $1,000 worth of gifts to kind of springboard our baby step seven journey.

And ever since we got that bug, every holiday, we would find a local family to ultimately adopt. And then one time my wife found a church that was helping with foster kids. So we've done that for the last three years. And every year we've upped it. We started off with five kids three years ago. We did 10 kids last year. And this year we've done 15 kids. >> Wow. >> Um ultimately through the foster program, probably spending upwards of $2

to $3,000 on behalf of these kids. And the best part about it is it's no more fun going through a toy store shopping for these kids. And we probably spend four to five times more on these kids than we do our own nieces and nephews, which is it's kind of ironic, but it's a blast to be able to do it for them.

>> Well, as it should be. That's that's a lot. That's awesome, man. Well done.

>> Yeah. I mean, kids these kids want for for nothing in our family and we're happy to provide obviously wonderful Christmas for them, but these other kids, we make sure to get everything on their list. And it is awesome to go to the register with multiple buggies full of stuff and be able to drop this stuff off at the wonderful church here in Columbus. >> Man, that's well done.

Good for you guys. Proud of you. Good work. Good work.

Good work. Yeah. Our Ramsey family foundation works with our team. Our team gets um after they've been with us a year, they get an extra week off of time off to do ministry work.

take it by the day or by the week, however they want to take it. And so, uh, our foundation, our our family foundation arranges things where they can go help, you know, some ministry somewhere if they want to do if they want to use their time that way. And just the other day, we had a whole bunch of our team members in the parking lot doing uh, shopping for kids toys and cars lined up with trunks up and, you know, the people would come back had bought the ones and they put them in the trunks and other people go deliver them and so people using their ministry time and uh, we were funding the kids toys and all that and they were in and out of here, in here.

looked like a little flea market thing going on down there in the parking lot. But it was pretty cool. >> I love watching them loaded into the giant trailer. Just all the gifts from all the team members getting loaded up to go give to the kids.

That's special to see. >> Yep. Yeah. This year it was going into individual cars, but one year there was a flood in the area and we were going to that county and dropping it off and we had a big trailer.

That was fun. >> Yeah. The trailer just kept getting stacked and stacked and stacked and stacked and then we're afraid we're not going to be able to get it all in that trailer because people just keep bringing stuff.

It's contagious >> and you almost want to like up your up what happened last year. You're like, "Hey, let's see if we can do 15 this year. Let's do 20 next year." >> I like it. Amy's in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Amy. How are you?

>> I'm I'm better than I deserve, Mr.

Ramsey. >> I hear you. Tell us your giving story.

>> All right. So, you know, we've always strived to teach our children the true spirit of Christmas, remembering that we are undeserving of our many blessings and that everything we have is truly not ours, but rather a responsibility entrusted to us by God to manage wisely.

So, this beautiful mission began with my daughter back in October. We were just driving somewhere. I honestly don't even remember where. And she just said, "Mommy, aren't we supposed to always try to be like Jesus and do the things he would do?" "Of of course we are, sweetheart." I replied. Um, and so then

she just said, "I have a good idea for Christmas this year." Naturally, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. What is it?" Then she start she shared something that honestly nearly brought me to tears. And I might start right now. But well, Jesus teaches us to give first, then save, then send.

Maybe partially you too, Mr. Ramsey, but in that order. So we got first.

>> Yeah. And uh and Christmas is the perfect time to do that. So, we can help Santa by delivering gifts to families who don't get that as much at Christmas time. You and Daddy can wear Santa hats and me and her younger brother can be elves. And I just, of course, tears are >> This is fabulous. >> Down. Um, just to see the pure heart and

tender spirit of in and a nine-year-old, right? And I >> How much did you do? How much How many dollars you put out?

>> Uh, um, we gave about $6,000 worth of

>> Whoa.

>> Yeah. And so she just said, "Can we do that on me?" And of course I'm like, "Absolutely we can. Yes, let's do it." And I actually live in the Dallas area, but my hometown is Mville, Michigan, which is a small city about 30 minutes south of Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yeah.

>> And so fortunately, we have four close friends there who connected me with some contacts, helped us identify and adopt four [music] families to bless this Christmas. >> That's so perfect. >> Those elves were working hard.

>> Well done. >> Sometimes kids are are the best example of pure generosity. Man, they don't have That's cool. Well done.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is our annual giving show where we take calls from you and you tell a giving or

a receiving story to inspire us to be better and bigger givers because the most fun you'll ever have with money is to learn to give it. You will enjoy yourself a lot more in this life if you learn to do that. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Katherine in

Texas says, "After listening to your show, I've become more acutely aware of the people who need to take short-term jobs to make ends meet. You often suggest Door Dash or delivering pizzas." Or, "When I'm out and about and I see

someone working by picking up or making a delivery, I quietly slide whatever bills I may have in my wallet into their hand and say, "Just in case one of the

deliveries forgets to tip you." >> Oh, I love that. By the way, we haven't covered this in a while, but we probably make it's a perfect time to do it. Is if

you are having someone deliver food or

something to your house, you know, Door Dash or um whatever. Um you know,

certainly pizza, that kind of thing. I want you to ask the person how they're doing.

And if they say better than I deserve,

that means they're working that job to get out of debt and you have to double their tip.

That's the rule. We didn't make it up.

>> It's it's it's it's it's a it's a federal law. >> It's constitutional. >> It's a federal law. It's a constitutional amendment. It occurred.

And so just double their tip if they say better than I deserve because you're trying to help them get out of debt. They're out there bringing you your your poor little hungry malnourished person.

They brought you some food and I don't know, you probably wouldn't have made it if they didn't come by. You you're down to your last calorie. And then they come in and they bless you. and uh you say, "How you doing?" "Better than I deserve," is code for. "I'm working this job to get out of debt." And it's a signal for you to double their tip. It's a it's a cry for help. [laughter] >> Give me more tips so I can get out of debt faster. Please.

>> Now, here's what's going to happen, okay? Word is going to spread among delivery drivers that have no idea about Ram. >> You say this, you get a big >> This is just You just have to use this hack, this code. So, always say this phrase, and they're like, "What? Say it.

Trust me, say it." And they all, you know, it'll get around. It'll get around. It's okay. Still, they're out there earning some extra money and still I'm I'm fine with the >> They're still hustling. >> If the Ramsay hack for tipping drivers gets out there, worse things could have happened. We could have We could have inspired worse movements. George, >> it could have happened. So, tell us your giving story. 88255225.

Sue is in New York City. Hi, Sue. Merry

Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. Uh so um a few years

ago I had gotten the opportunity to um

donate a kidney to uh a stranger.

>> Wow. How Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is not an opportunity that I've run into.

So how do you run into this opportunity?

>> Um so I mean I have to go back. My parents have modeled amazing generosity uh and love to people. So that kind of went into my portfolio and then they also gifted me with amazing DNA. So, um, when my sister-in-law's sister had needed a kidney, I had started to test for her, um, you know, quietly, uh, but I didn't match her and her hospital said, "Thanks for trying, but she has matches." And so, it kind of, you know, ended.

And I was a little disappointed because in my mind, I had already kind of done it. And so, when I kept my eyes open, kept praying.

So, I called his hospital and I said, "Listen, I know I don't blood match him, but is there a way I can help this guy?" And they said, "Actually, we participate in a voucher program where you can donate to a stranger and then he gets a voucher for the next living kidney that matches him." So, I said, "Hey, let's go for it." So, I started testing. I didn't tell anybody um because I wanted to make sure I was going to pass um and so started testing and um passed obviously.

And then once I passed all the tests, they said, "Can we tell him?" And I thought I you know I was uncomfortable.

I didn't want him to feel like beholden to me for anything but I said sure. And he has been nothing but gracious. But the amazing part of all of it was I didn't know he was attending my church.

Like it it's just so crazy. His daughter uh worked at my husband's school. Like the way our lives kind of intertwined.

It was just very very strange. I didn't know him before this. Um but I get to watch his journey. He did get his kidney 6 months after I donated mine to someone. I don't know who got that, but um and I get to see him, you know, living his best life. It's amazing.

>> Wow, that's incredible.

>> That's so that's pretty generous. Okay, >> so what's the recovery time?

>> So, um for it was so uh 10 it was two

days in the hospital about 10 days and I'm just going to say it was discomfort.

like I've always, you know, worked out hard and stuff, so it just felt like I had probably did too hard at the gym.

So, I was used to that kind of discomfort. So, I don't feel like it was pain. So, maybe 10 days of that. And then, um, by day 10, we were down at the boardwalk walking at the beach.

By 6 weeks, I was back on I'm a cyclist, so I was back on my bike. Um, and then actually five months after that, my friend and I decided to do a 100 mile bike ride. Um, and so, like, it really hasn't changed my life at all. I just want to inspire people.

I mean, you can do crazy things.

>> That's That's very cool. Very cool.

That's legit. >> Very inspiring. >> Sue, that's something else. That's um

>> Well, that's like you said, it's DNA.

It's the generosity your parents planted in you. So, >> yeah. >> There's There's layers of sacrificial generosity that's up there.

>> An organ, that's a different one. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> With that kind of recovery time, all to be generous. Wow. >> While still living. Yeah. >> I didn't know about this pay it forward kidney voucher program. That's fascinating. Never heard of that before. >> Pretty cool. >> Yeah. Wild.

>> Lyn's in Sacramento. Hey Lynn, tell us your giving story.

>> You better start again cuz all I heard was you're dropping the phone.

Are you there?

>> Three, two, one. You're on hold till we get you straightened out, kiddo.

Stephanie's in Chicago. Tell us your giving story, Stephanie. Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas, Dave. Uh well, first of all, this is a real gift to me because I get to talk about my son. Um so my giving story begins with God as all the best stories do. Um my husband and I are

blessed with three beautiful daughters and in 2024 we we prayed on whether or not we should have a fourth child and felt like God answered our prayer and we uh became pregnant with a son. Um he was

diagnosed with tricome 18 early in my pregnancy. Mhm. >> Um and uh that was a very difficult

walk, but I'll tell you, God uh was paving the way for us cuz we found a really amazing church before all this happened. And um those people just surrounded us with prayer through everything. Um we received a miracle when my son was born alive at full term

and he lived one week um before he died.

M >> um and uh I don't I mean I don't need to say it's the most difficult thing a parent can experience.

>> Absolutely. >> But um the generosity that flooded in around us just took my breath away.

>> Uh my husband's boss and co-workers showed up with cash and Door Dash gift cards and >> the small groups we belong to at church sent money and and gift cards just so we wouldn't have to think about meals. Um because it wasn't the money we needed, it was just the peace, >> the gap, the margin. and um

his his work also submitted a claim for life insurance that we didn't even remember we would have uh so we were

able to donate a percentage of that to the NICU that took care of him at Lorie Children's Hospital. >> Wow. >> Um to try and support other families that are going through the worst days of their lives. >> Amen. Wow.

That's a tough one. But people step up when they see their friends hurting.

They step up and they're generous.

Nobody talks about this enough. You're out there, boys and girls. I know you're out there. We talk about you and to you all the time.

[music]

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[bell] George Camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host. Today we're taking calls from people who gave or received something to inspire more generosity. Outrageous generosity.

If you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. It's

not unusual for someone to do their debt-free scream on the debtree stage.

And we asked them why. What was your why? What was it that drove you to do this? They said we wanted to be in a position to give more.

Giving has always been fun for us and we want to do more of it. We hear that all the time on the debtfree stage. Kevin's in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Kevin.

Merry Christmas. Tell us your giving story. >> Hey, merry Christmas, guys. Um, so real uh long story short, um, we're watching

a young boy um, overnight. Uh, a girl

that we're watching her him for works overnight and has nowhere to take him.

My company I work for called Keep Supply, the director of sales heard about the story and my company decided

to give her a whole entire Christmas and her son and give her a bunch of cash and it's unbelievable.

>> Wow, that's cool. That's cool. Does she

know this yet?

>> Uh yeah. So, so far we've we've furnished her whole entire house um with donations from people I work with cuz she had nothing. >> Mhm. Um, and so yeah, so she knows that

part. She doesn't know about Christmas for her and her son yet, but I'm sure she will after after today. So, >> it's the gift that keeps on giving. She shows up from work every time. There's more stuff. That's awesome.

>> Yeah. >> How did you get everyone involved at work? Was it kind of like once word spread, everyone was like, I want in.

>> Um, yeah. So my my wife works for Life

Church and so she just gave her life to Christ a few weeks ago and um I told the

story to our director of sales and we're also a Smart Dollar company by the way, Dave. But >> thank you. >> Um told her Yeah. So I told the story to

our director of sales and he said, "I have an idea." And he came back and next thing I know uh we have a team called People and Culture and they decided to do everything. So >> wow. washer and dryer. Brand new washer and dryer. $500 gift card. $100 gift card from Aldi. Like just crazy stuff,

>> man.

That's off the chain. Wow. Very cool,

Kevin. >> Well done. And you get to be right at the epicenter of the whole thing, right?

>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's so It's so fun.

So, >> yeah. Very cool. And we'll see some big smiles. And that lady, there's no telling where she'll be in 20 years cuz somebody gave her a boost, right?

>> Absolutely. Yep. That's her.

>> Yeah. She's a warrior princess fighting, working nights just to keep her head above water, right? >> Yes, sir. Yep. >> Man, you're a good man, Kevin. Your company's good people. Well done. That's how it's done. When we the people take care of we the people. It's an amazingly efficient process as opposed to extracting taxes

from someone and 2% of it actually ends up going to help someone. And 82% is

lost somewhere down a toilet in Washington. So, I mean, what would happen if we the people took care of we the people completely and you made Washington irrelevant?

That'd be pretty cool. That would be like awesome. Some of those people could get like a different job.

>> That's true. [laughter]

>> Think about how many St. Judes you could build, you know? It's pretty wild.

[laughter] >> It's crazy what you could do. Uh, Vanessa's in Toronto. Hi, Vanessa. Merry

Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Hi Dave. Merry Christmas. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. >> Um I have a story a story about

receiving money for school and then paying it forward giving money for school as well. >> Ah >> um so yeah so when I was young my grandparents birthday Christmas money would give to my parents for school.

They saved it over the years and invested it for me.

>> Um and then when I was 15 my grandma passed away in 2001. So, she didn't quite see me go to school. Um, but two years later, I did go to university.

>> So, the money they had given me, um, along with $1,000 that I received from a family friend were both a huge blessing.

They helped me to pay for my first year of tuition, which was amazing.

>> Very cool. >> Um, yeah. So, then, um, after

university, got married, bought a house, started a family. Fast forward to 2017,

and we found the Ramsay plan. Um, we read the total money makeover and started paying off debts. We had just a couple of car loans to pay off. Um, but we were working on that. At the end of that year, my mom passed away unexpectedly.

>> Yeah. So, it was a hard time, but we had

some generous family who um instead of

donations gave us money to put into my

kids education funds because my mom was big on education for her grandkids. Mhm.

>> So, we received um some generous money there to put in my kids' education funds

and it will grow cuz they were five and under at the time. So, it will grow over the years and be quite a bit for them when they go to school. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. So, in 2018 we hit our debtree

except the mortgage milestone and then so because we were debtree we were able to be more generous. So, I really wanted to pay it forward to other family to help them go to school. Um, so I decided

to just do kind of an informal scholarship for family members. Um, my grandma's name was Rose, my mom's middle name was Rose, my middle name is Rose, and my daughter's middle name is Rose.

>> Got a feeling this is the Rose Scholarship. >> The Rose The Rose Scholarship. Yes.

>> In honor of the four generations.

>> Um, so in 2021 when my niece on my

husband's side went to college, we were able to give her the first road scholarship of $1,000.

>> Ah. Very nice.

>> Yeah. So, when we presented it to her, we wrote a little letter with the meaning behind it. Her mom read it out loud at her graduation party and as she was reading it, a butterfly appeared and was flying around um while she was reading it out loud. So, it was a really beautiful moment that kind of signal signaled our loved ones were with us during that time.

But it was really beautiful. >> And then yeah, we plan on doing it in the future with more nieces and nephews and then maybe down the road outside the family too, just to to keep paying that forward for education. >> Amen. Well done.

Very well played.

like it. I like it. It's often how we

learn to or we often give in a place where someone has helped us in the past.

And so to flip it over and you know, uh, Larry Krab says a wounded healer.

Sometimes the very wound that you got is a place you can bring healing to someone else. And the very time that you received something is the very time you the very way you turn able to give >> something in that same area. Sometimes that's just an assignment just a God assignment and sometimes it's just a a place in your heart, you know. >> Yeah.

>> And probably the same thing. >> So that's a cool thing to think about is where where are those wounds for you where you can help someone else heal in your life because that's where it's going to be the most impactful. >> Yeah. when did somebody do something from you that made a big difference and and uh so forth.

and if you give a car to someone, say a single mom that doesn't have a car and enable her to get a job, enable her to get, you know, her dignity, enable her to get moving again, um it changes her

life. And if that $5,000 car does that for one, that means it's only $50,000 to do it for 10.

>> That's all it is. And >> the ripple effect of that is mind-blowing. >> It's incredible. Lots of churches now have started uh Larry Berquette started this many many years ago. And it's he he

would be he's passed on. He's in heaven.

But I'm sure he's pleased from his perspective the number of churches that have followed through on what he talked them into doing. And they they have a car ministry and people donate their cars. By the way, if you donate a car, uh, you can take a tax deduction for the

market value of the car. And so, um, if

you got a car that, you know, needs a little bit of work and the church has a ministry, they'll fix it up for somebody and give it to somebody, but you can donate it at full price, um, it's pretty cool. And so if you got a, you know, uh

maybe you bought a car this year and don't, if your church has a car program or you know of a church that has a car program, uh that's a good way to do it.

When you are donating something, it of

any kind, what a piece of real estate, a stock, uh a car, anything like that,

what you paid for it does not matter in

terms of the write off. If you're donating it to a qualified 501c3 where

you can take a write off a ministry, a charity, whatever, then you get to write off full market value. So, I was talking to a guy the other day that, you know, he had some Exxon stock that he had paid

nothing for, but it, you know, he probably had his basis in it was probably less than $50,000 and it was worth a million dollars. >> Wow. >> But, so if he sold it, he's got gains on every bit of that. But by donating it, he gets to write off a million dollars.

And so he donated it >> and be generous in the process. It's a win-win. >> Yeah. You get market value write off on whatever it is you donate. It's pretty cool.

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>> [music]

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>> on the debtfree stage in the Ramsey Solutions lobby on our annual giving show. One of our own team members,

Nicole O'Harn, product manager with Ramsey Plus team, which means she works on every dollar among other things these days. her husband Perry. And you've been with us how long, Nicole? >> Two years. >> Two years on the Ramsay team.

>> Yes. >> All right. And we hear a rumor that you have a great giving story.

>> Yes. So, actually two years right before I started, we were on the stage and we did our debtree scream. Um, and then a couple months, you know, being on the team, uh, one of our staff meetings, I heard a story of a co-orker giving away a car. And I had said to Perry, I'd be like, that would be really cool to do that one day. So, fast forward, um, we

found out I was pregnant. And, you know, we know the story. Just because you're having a baby doesn't mean you need to get a new car. But, we found out we were pregnant with twins.

>> So, we had one already and we tried a

bunch of different variations of like car seats. How could we fit three car seats in the back row of our car? And we just couldn't figure out a way to make that work. So, we're like, "Okay, we got to upgrade cars. we need a car that can fit all the kids. Um, and so we started looking for cars. We had our beta car.

Um, and so we were like, we could sell it. It had like 200,000 miles on it. We could sell it for a,000, $2,000. Um, and

then I heard one of our co-workers, his daughter was looking for a car and she it was her first car and she had a a b a

small budget. Um, and I heard the stories of some of the cars that they were like coming across. And so I said to Perry, I was like, "Why don't we give our car to his daughter?" Um, and so we

were like, it was an easy decision. I don't think there was much discussion. It was just timing of when we want to get the new car and all that jazz. So once we decided we wanted to do it and when we could do it. Um, Perry came up with a great idea of how we wanted to gift it to her. >> Yeah. So basically what we did was we had him have a kind of dadaughter meeting talking outside about budget and college and everything like that and we parked around the corner. I had bought a

uh keychain with her name on it and the

plan was we were going to be walking with our kids around the corner and then essentially I acted like I found a pair of keys in front of their house. And so I just said, "Oh, excuse me. Did you guys drop some keys?" And she looked at her dad and she came out. No.

And I go, "Are you sure there's a name? I don't I don't know whose name this is." And then she looked and kind of looked at her dad and was like, "What's what's happening right now?" And so then we got to break it to her that that was her car and we were giving it to her. >> That's so fun. >> That's great.

So, what kind of car is this? >> It was a uh Hyundai >> Santa Fe >> Santa Fe. >> Oh, that's a great teenager car. >> Yeah, it's still it's still working.

It's still driving.

>> Yeah. Good. >> That is so cool. Well played, y'all.

Yeah, [laughter] it was it was just it felt just so great to be able to be in a place that we were able to just give it and it not have like yeah, does that money would that money be great? Sure, we have twins. There's a lot of expenses, but it was so much uh more

worth it to be able to give that um and be in a place in our life now, thanks to getting out of debt, that it's like it's it was an easy decision. So, it's great.

>> Amen. Well, and it's it's fun that in this environment at Ramsey, that kind of stuff happens all the time. And so, you've kind of got that in front of you to prompt you and go, "Oh, we could do that instead of like where it's never going on." You know, there's stuff like that happens around here every day. And it's uh just this place is very weird, but um >> weird as normal around here.

>> Weird. Weird in a good way. But yeah, um it's it's um yeah, that's fun. Way to go, y'all.

>> Yeah. What kind of car did you buy for the twins? Well, she wanted a minivan and I fought it really, really hard. So, I did everything I can to kind of >> Dude, you're in the minivan zone.

>> So, I I somehow won and we got a really good deal on a Volkswagen Atlas.

>> Yeah. Beautiful car. >> So, it has the three the two rows.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I've explained to him it would be so much easier if we had a minivan to get to that back row, but [laughter] >> he'll give in eventually. Eventually, we also come to the minivan.

>> That's so fun. >> It's just a phase. You don't you don't have to live there forever. It's just a there's a phase of minivan phase and then you can move on to other stuff.

Very good. Congratulations y'all. Well done. And hey, thanks for thanks for telling us that story. That's absolutely very very well done. >> It's close to home in these walls.

>> Good stuff. Good stuff. The number of times the first time we ever gave a car

um it was a disaster.

[laughter] We did it at the Christmas party. Uh the lady has now passed away. Her name was Joy. and um she'd gone through a nasty

mess uh of life uh nasty divorce and she

was broke and um I'm like we're going to

give her this car and so I bought this you know car and it wasn't super like8 or $10,000 and uh we at the Ramsay

Christmas party we always do some bizarre giving and stuff and so we bring

the thing inside the building where we

were doing the Christmas party and uh they said you can do that but you have to unhook the battery because they're afraid it's going to blow up or something in the building, right? So, we unhook the battery and we hook the battery back up, gave it to her, and it wouldn't start. >> Oh boy. >> So, all the guys end up pushing this car

outside and we get the jumper cables out of my truck and jump off. It kind of took the edge off the gift, you know?

Yeah. >> It's just like this is a, you know, it's like, okay, this thing's such a piece of crap it won't start and we just gave it to you. Good luck with that. Right.

>> And is like, are all the team members now watching this occur? >> Oh, YEAH. YEAH. IT'S LIKE, "GET IN THE [laughter] CAR. TURN IT ON. YOU GOT A CAR. TICK TICK tick tick tick tick tick tick. Won't start." It's just like, it was so anticlimactic. It was so awful.

Yours was a lot better. Yeah.

>> Theirs was a lot better. Walk around the corner and give them the keys. That's just perfect. >> You should have just said batteries not included. You got to get your own.

>> Yeah. No, it was just I was just mortified. >> Oh god. >> But u all you know have you have all these plans, all this the way you see this in your head. It's going to be glorious and it's won't start. Oh my

god. It was awful. It was horrible. Lynn

is in Sacramento. Merry Christmas, Lynn.

Tell us your giving story.

>> Well, first of all, thank you very much for reinforcing the generosity piece. I

really have taken it to heart. Good. And I I really believe in um being generous

with words of gratitude and praise with

people. So, this past Thanksgiving when

I was doing my Thanksgiving cards, I decided to think of someone that I know who has a hard job and is really dedicated to it. And not only that, this person smiles and waves and is cheerful.

And I don't really know this personally.

I'm just slightly acquainted with him.

And he is our trash collector.

And because we live in a wooded area, there are times uh when the bears get into our neighbors trash and um he gets

out of his truck. >> War zone duty for being a trash collector. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And um some of these neighbors have not kind of gotten into the program about how to alleviate this issue. But anyway, he just does it. He he doesn't complain. He smiles and I've asked to help and he kindly dismisses me and he just goes about the task without complaint.

I told him, "Yeah, go ahead, open it." And he opened it. He read it and he saw

like the $10 or $20 I put in.

And then surprise, he got down out of

his truck and he's in his 50s.

He gave me a big hug and with tears in his eyes, he told me that no one had ever thanked him like that in his 20 plus years of service.

>> Wow. And I just thought, well, you know, it really goes to show how a thank you and a small gesture for someone who does a seemingly minor job day in and day

out. How >> It's not minor if it doesn't get done.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And I I just think of all these folks who do a lot of the dirty work and they need to be remembered and recognized and thanked at any time of the year. And um anyway, and then in my email, he had also added that

there's a um a message that I play in my head from time to time and it's from Abraham Lincoln and he said, "Whatever you are, be a good one." >> Yeah. >> And that that certainly applied to our beloved truck trash collector. So >> very cool. Well done, Lynn.

Score. Yeah. I gotta say my wife uh she

never misses the postman this time of year and never misses the trash collector this >> she's watching. >> Yeah, she takes good care of them. They know they're they know they're liked and Lynn's the same way. Way to go, Lynn.

It's a good reminder, folks. Good reminder. Yeah, that's good. Very good.

our annual giving show. You're on the Ramsay Show.

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>> [music]

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What no one tells you about money. Abby

is in Atlanta. Abby, tell us your giving story. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas, Dave. Um, so my giving

story um really started um almost 11

years ago, believe it or not. Um I had a little girl. Me and my husband have been very blessed with two children, but unfortunately we had some major complications. Um when our little girl was born, she was born at 25 weeks gestation and she weighed 1 lb and 11 oz. Um we were in the NICU for over 110

odd days. Um but she thrived and did amazing. Um I really had no complications except she was born early and she had to hang out in the NICU for some time. Um so whenever we consulted

with our doctors about four years later to to try to add to our family, they thought, you know, yes, this that was a fluke. That won't happen again. Um, four years after that, uh, our little boy came along, but he was born, um, even earlier at 23 weeks gestation, um, weighing, uh, one pound and 8 ounces.

But this time, um, he was born with a grade four brain bleed, um, which leads to some really, really, um, which typically leads to some major complications as far as the inability to walk or talk. M >> um and while we were going through that

um just during his his time in the hospital um one month we just had more months than we had money. Um and we

could have asked a family member to help us um but instead we just decided to pray. Um and we just said God, you know, please provide for us for this month. We were able to cover all of our bills, but we had just one bill that was left. Um

and so we had prayed about it. Um, a a few days go by and our father-in-law actually visits a local auto parts store here in our hometown. Um, and the man doesn't know us directly. Um, but he knows our story.

So, he asks how we're go, how we're doing. And he pulls out $200 to give to our father-in-law. Um, and our father-in-law of course gives us that money and then, um, shares with us, you know, he wanted to just to bless us and our story.

Um, and that's really kind of what I want to focus on as far as this story.

Um, that, you know, our bills were covered because someone decided to to show some gratitude and be giving. Wow.

Um, and while that is kind of the highlight and the peak of the story, um, kind of to to wrap the story up, even though our little boy had a grain for grade four brain bleed, um, he's a walking and talking miracle today. We have both of our children have no signs of uh, prematurity or niku stay and they

are both thriving and living perfectly normal lives, then um, enjoy listening to the Ramsay show. >> Praise God. That's awesome. >> What a miracle. That's amazing. Good.

Good. Good. >> Wow. Yeah. Right when you're at the uh

at at the peak of stress and someone steps in and says, "Well, we'll cover, you know, we'll cover a little bit of it for you." They don't understand that it's like everything.

>> Absolutely. It's it's life-changing. And you know, we were just able to again see that God will provide for you.

>> Yeah. Amen. Amen. Another another faith

builder, if you will. Yeah.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Good story. Well shared, Abby.

Well done. Well done. And I'm so glad the kids are great. That's a great great part of the story as well. Robin's with us in Vermont. Merry Christmas, Robin.

>> Oh, merry Christmas to you.

>> So, tell us your giving story.

>> Sure. Sure. So, um, we've been on the able to be generous side and also been recipients of generosity. So, we've been able to give away two cars. Um, so in

both cases, we were at a situation where we had two cars, but we didn't need the second car. So in the first one we were seminary students and um there was a family from Kazakhstan that had come to the seminary um in the states and the

they only had a bicycle to run all their errands and um and so we were like that that can't happen. So we were able to give them one of our cars and then a few years later we were in another situation where we had two cars and we didn't need two cars. So there was another family um they had just had their third child and needed a larger vehicle. So, we were able to give them our van um so that they could get um started off great on that.

realized how much more expensive it is to live here than it is um in Alabama where we're from. And um we couldn't do

Christmas for our family that year. and a Sunday school class in a church in Birmingham, Alabama, adopted us um as

their project and they just overwhelmed

us with their generosity um with these amazing Christmas gifts that year and we are just so thankful and to this day still remember it. And that was almost 20 years ago. >> Amen. Amen. That's cool. It's very cool.

And uh there's something weird back on the car thing. There's something weird about giving away cars. I've done it several times >> and you know, you give away three or $4,000 is one thing. You give away three or $4,000 car, it just seems like a big thing cuz it's a big thing.

You know, the thing is big >> and so physically and so you're just like it's a different feeling. It's a different uh feeling for the recipient, for the giver, for everyone involved and uh pretty cool stuff. Yeah.

And you ended up after the uh Are you still on Are you still missionaries?

>> Yeah. Um not technically anymore. We're still up here in Vermont. Yeah, that's what I end up taking in a we ended up taking an established church after planting two two churches. So um so now

now we're just uh in the regular.

>> Okay. All right. So So your p your husband's a pastor. >> He is.

Yes. >> Oh, okay. Very cool. Very cool.

Well, it's easy to spread the word then with that and let people know about generosity and you did a good job sharing it today. Congratulations. Very well done. Very well done.

>> I love that. There's I feel like there's two parts to these stories. One is you have to be have the ability to see the opportunity to look up and out and you need to do that from a place of strength >> because when you're stressed out about your own money problems, you're you're sort of forced to look inward.

>> Yeah. >> That's part two. When you're when you're worried about your own food, it's hard to worry about somebody else's.

>> And technically, you really shouldn't.

>> Yeah. >> By the way, you should take care of your own household first. That's a biblical standard. So, feed your kids and don't let your kids be hungry while you're feeding somebody else's kids. That's that's weird. It's not it's not what the Bible calls for. And so, but but you know, work, live, give like no one else,

right? and put yourself in a position as we say when you get to baby step seven where you're 100% debtree house and everything then you can be just outrageously generous and what by then

what feels like a little bit of money to you will be a lot of money to somebody else or a little bit of help to someone else be a lot of help to someone else.

It it feels different because the ratios are different in your life. >> Yeah. And I love that these stories, I mean, it ranges from $40 to $4,000. And

it was never the amount. And so that's I want to encourage people. >> It's an awareness. >> Yeah.

I want to encourage people if you think, well, I don't have $4,000 to give. I only have 40. Hey, give a little until you can give a lot. And you don't know how it's going to affect the other person.

>> Yeah. If you're walking through, you know, a store, you're standing pumping gas, you're doing whatever, and a thought comes to you that that person over there needs help. That was not a thought. That was God's voice saying, "Go help them." >> So, be aware.

Be looking up. Be keep your, you know, keep keep a little extra cash in your pocket. Be thinking about this stuff.

Opportunities are everywhere.

>> So, be ready when it comes.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. It's our annual giving show. George Camel, Ramsay

personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today where we're taking calls from you where you tell us your giving stories to inspire

generosity.

We would love to hear from you. So many

years ago, we started doing this show. I mean, I've been on the air for 35 years.

So, uh, we started doing a giving show at the Christmas time, and Blake Thompson in those days was our producer.

Blake's been working at Ramsey for 30 years. And so, um, he was the producer in those days. And he was from Kansas City originally, grew up in Kansas City.

So, he brought up, he goes, "You need to know about this guy named Secret Santa."

And there was a guy between the years 1979 and 2006 that would dress up and nobody could figure out who he was. He dressed up as Santa Claus. and he would go to an area where there had been a tragedy, New Orleans after Katrina or

something like that, right? Where there maybe there he went to Coline after there was a shoot after the school shooting there in the infamous school shooting uh and so forth. And he went around to Santa Claus and handed out

$1,000 to somebody and then to somebody

else. And he'd give out 10, 20, $30,000 walking around, you know, $500 or $1,000 at a time. He just walk into a store, look at somebody and go, "This person needs some help and Jesus loves you."

And gives gives them some money. Well, it got to be where people kind of knew what he was doing. So, they had he had to get his buddies from uh Kansas City to come as they were on the police force and escort him so that he, you know, >> no one tackled him to try to get money, >> get 30,000 bucks out of the guy, you know, whatever. But he ended up giving away uh over $2 million as Secret Santa

over the years 79 through 06. So, uh,

the Kansas City Star kept trying to figure it out. And finally, uh, he came out and told us who he was because he was dying of cancer. >> Oh, wow. >> And he passed away in '08.

But before that, we got to meet Larry Stewart and Blake got in touch with him. We had Larry come on the air and tell the whole story on Secret Santa. And he kind of there's a secret Santa, I think.com or whatever. He kind of wanted to franchise it.

He wanted he wanted everybody to go get a Santa costume and give away $10,000 all over America. He wanted to, you know, give away 20 million where he only gave away 2 million. And it all started, he was a beautiful man, just a neat guy. But it all started, he was in Alabama and he was broke and he was homeless and he he was hungry.

went into a diner and oldfashioned diner and went up to the bar, the you know the diner with the round stools kind of thing, right? sat at the diner, ordered food, ate the food, and um then acted like he forgot his

wallet. And he was just basically he wasn't dining and dashing, but he was just telling the guy, you know, that ran the thing uh he said, "I I'm so sorry. I forgot my wallet." And and um the the guy running the diner to save Larry's

dignity reached down under the stool and said, "Hey, I think you dropped this." and handed him 20 bucks and he let him keep his dignity and he gave him the meal in other words and Larry never forgot that and he said if I ever make any money I'm going to do stuff like that my whole life and so we had him on there and he was telling all these stories it was fabulous and so he was in the uh uh cable TV business and

became very wealthy obviously and he always remembered that time that guy reached under the stool and magically found a $20 bill that wasn't there a few minutes ago right and uh to take care of him. And so he's dressed up as Secret Santa and gave away over $2 million,

$1,500 at a time.

>> That is wild. What a cool. This is before the advent of social media.

>> Yeah. And he kept it like the original Jimmy D. >> He kept it quiet. Nobody knew who he was.

And I mean, Kansas City Star tried to follow him around. They tried to figure out where he was going. He went to New York City after the Twin Towers came down with the terrorists and all that, right? So he's walking around in New York City and giving away money and people are like, "Who is this guy?" Nobody stand out in a crowd, people want to know who who is this guy.

>> Yeah. I mean, well, you're Santa and you're giving away thousand pops, people want to know. And they never could figure it out until he decided he was going to come out and tell who he was.

Everybody started doing stories on him then. And we got in touch with him. He came on. He came on here uh I think he came on here two or three times before he passed away. He lived a while with his cancer. Wow. >> But uh it was pretty incredible.

>> Pretty incredible. Look him up. Larry Stewart in Kansas City. Secret Santa. By

the way, y'all could go do that.

Yeah, some of y'all lady called in a while ago. The her kid wanted to be the elf and her uh M Mr. Mrs. Claus, right?

And they they did it kind of did it.

They weren't too weren't real secret about it. They didn't, you know, weren't completely dressed up with the full >> It's up to you if you want to be in full costume or not. I know Dave prefers to be in costume most of the time. >> Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, definitely. You I'm big on costumes, George. But the uh What in the world? Yeah, but the uh uh but the thing is you could do this.

You could just you could put on a little Santa. >> I'll be your elf. That's all I'm saying. If you want to be Santa, I'll volunteer to be the elf.

>> Or we can just be in plain clothing and give money away. That's fine, too. >> George, you're just messing up this whole thing. >> Well, it reminds me last year we uh went to Waffle House and I got to give $10,000 away at two different Waffle Houses and that was about the most fun I had.

So, thank you for the gift of that. We we got with the Ramsey team and they said, "Let's do this." We got video and got the crew out and snuck in and and you gave away how many people different people got the $10,000. >> Well, we eventually we gave it to a certain employee at Waffle House. We knew that there was a story there and it was >> the whole 10,000 [snorts] for one person.

>> Well, we gave her I think 2,000 just to her.

It's amazing. Waffle House is like a time capsule. And uh and then we just gave it to a few different employees and it was a really special time. No, we got that. [laughter] That's probably sitting on YouTube, isn't it? >> Oh, yeah. That's on our Ramsay Show highlight YouTube channel. Just search Waffle House on there and uh it's in your neck of the woods in Antioch where you grew up. >> Okay, that's a good Waffle House.

>> Solid. >> No, there's no bad ones. >> I was tempted to eat, but we were on the clock, so I thought, "All right, we'll get out of here." >> There's no bad ones. There's no bad ones. Yeah. The uh and another fun one we did around here was uh we figured out because we work getting people out of debt that the people that when a debt goes bad and it's in collections, they will sell that debt for somewhere around 3 to 5 cents on the dollar. So 50 bucks

will buy $1,000 debt in other words. And

uh debt buyers buy that and then they go try to collect it and make that 95 cent 97 profit 97 cent swing right on the ones they can collect and the residents they can't collect they can't collect and so we got in touch with one of the brokers of the debt buying stuff three or four years ago I guess I remember what year 22 23 somewhere in there and I

told him that we wanted to buy it to forgive it we were going to just forgive the debt and he got all excited and helped us and we were able to buy $10 million worth of debt for 259,000. Two and a half cents on the dollar. So for 250,000 bucks, we got $10 million worth of debt. 8,000 accounts and we have a,000 people. So we gave each of our thousand people 10 people to call and tell that their debt had been forgiven in Jesus name.

And uh that was their that was our team's Christmas present. >> I made a few of those calls. It was a lot of >> and they were people didn't they didn't even believe you. They're like, "What? This some kind of scam?

>> Send me an email. I want I want proof." Well, we had to make a website to send them to to say, "No, this is legitimate.

Go to this website. We will prove it." >> People, I mean, when when you get down, you've been kicked and you've had those collectors calling you. It's hard to it's hard to not >> It's been seven years. >> Yeah. But it's like your medical debt, your car repo debt, your credit card debt that you hadn't paid in 6 years or whatever, it's forgiven. Zero. You don't know a thing in Jesus' name. And man, the stories were great. People, the people working here love making their eight phone calls each. That's for sure.

It was a lot of fun. So, you can do all kinds of fun stuff once you get this thing moving. Generosity is a big deal, boys and girls.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> It's our annual giving show. Thanks for hanging out with us and telling your giving stories. Rose is in Colorado Springs. Merry Christmas, Rose. Tell us your giving story.

>> Thank you for taking my call and letting me tell my story, Dave. Um, sure.

>> Last year, 2 days after my husband and I decided to divorce, I fell at work and I tore my ACL and a bunch of other ligaments in my knee.

>> Um, I needed Yeah, I needed a massive surgery. And this was one week before Thanksgiving. Uh, I was set to have my surgery the day after Christmas. And four days before Christmas, my ex-husband emptied my house of furniture.

Basically took everything except for the dining room table of the bed and the Christmas tree. Uh, one of my friends decided to take me away for a night and while we were gone, another friend of mine refernished my entire house for me. >> Wow.

everything. She completely redid my whole house so that when I came home from surgery, I came home to furniture.

>> Well, you picked better friends than husbands. Well done.

>> Absolutely. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. That that was a happy ending to a sad story. >> Wow.

How are you doing today? >> I got my first night away and then I got

a new house. So, it was awesome. I'm doing really good.

>> My knees healed up and life's going on.

>> Good for you. >> As it always does. >> Good for you. >> This will be a merrier Christmas hopefully. >> So, you'll have the opportunity to do that for someone someday, won't you?

>> I will. And I'm looking forward to it.

>> Amen. Amen. Great story. I like it.

That's cool. Hey, friends got your back when you're down. >> Yeah. I mean, you got your knee busted and the husband takes off. I mean, this is like a country song, right?

>> But your friends got your back and >> and apparently a key to the house. That's the other thing they needed.

[laughter] >> They got in there somehow. It's impressive. >> For real. Very cool. Lydia is in Pittsburgh. Merry Christmas, Lydia. Tell us your giving story, please.

>> Merry Christmas. So, this all started about two months ago for us. Uh my one-year-old daughter was having respiratory issues. So we took her to her pediatrician. From there we went to the ER and then from there she got a helicopter ride uh because they saw a tumor in her chest. So once they did further scans they saw the tumor was basically taking up half of her chest.

Uh it was almost completely compressing her one lung and pushing her heart to the wrong side of her body. And by the end of the day we had met with every doctor and there was a plan for surgery to remove the tumor the next day.

>> Wow. So, yeah. So, the next day, uh, she

had surgery.

>> Uh, well, so she had surgery the day before her birthday.

>> Her first birthday. >> Oh my goodness. Just a baby. Okay.

>> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Tiny little thing. She weighed Yeah. 16 pounds. That was all.

>> Uh, so the next day she had surgery and thank God everything went as well as it possibly could have. Uh the tumor ended up weighing a pound of those 16 lbs and we were told it weighed had about a coke can of fluid in it. Uh but they were able to remove it all with no issues and about a week later we found out the tumor was completely benign which was the biggest blessing. >> Amen.

But uh during that time there were hundreds to thousands of people praying for her. Her nurses made her birthday very special and it was really inspiring to see the community that came around us. [snorts] >> So while we were in the hospital um our old pastor actually came to visit with his wife to pray for her. And after talking to them for a bit we actually learned they had a hectic year themselves.

Uh they had been in the hospital with one of their kids almost every month.

weren't sure how their bills were going to be paid that month. So, we set aside money for giving each month. Uh we had some saved up and my husband felt we should give them $1,500. So, we did

>> and this stressed me out a little bit just with the unknown of our own medical bills. And we're also having our second child in about 3 weeks. So, we got that coming up.

Uh but we had no doubt it was the right thing to do. who felt like one of those God nudges and just uh trust me in this.

So, uh we did it anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, God is really faithful and he didn't even let a week go by before we were blessed with that money in return.

>> Of course, >> uh we had many people bless our family and most of them we didn't even know personally or had many of their own struggles. So, I've always loved giving,

but I've never been in a situation where the blessing came back to us so quickly, especially in our time of need. Uh, but God's grace and provision has amazed us and that's never been more clear than the past two months of our life.

>> Amen. Amen. Y'all had a had your boat full. That's for sure. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit.

>> And what special people you are. You're in the middle of a huge crisis with a little baby and yet you you can lift your eyes up and look over and see someone else's need.

>> That's put that on my husband. He he's the one who uh caught on to it. I was a little preoccupied, but >> Yeah. Amen. You're both people of high character and integrity and generosity.

That's a beautiful trait. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Well done, Lydia. Well done. Good story and good. Obviously, um powerful gift.

So, very, very well done. Kelsey in Georgia says, "Recently, our daughter came home and said she noticed a boy in her class couldn't eat lunch because his lunch account wasn't paid. Each day my

daughter or one of her friends would get extra get an extra tray to give him.

After hearing this, we decided to contact the school and paid off his lunch debt and even added some extra funds to his account so he could eat lunch at school. There we go.

>> That is cool. >> That's good. That's cool. >> That's a good reminder.

You can cover I mean lunch debt is a crazy thing that even exists in schools, but if you can just contact the school and say, "Hey, I want to cover everyone's lunch debt. How much is on the tab? I'll cover it." That's a cool thing to do. >> It wouldn't be, you know, it's not going to it's not going to be $100,000.

I mean, so that's not a bad >> It's a stressor for that person's life going, "Oh my gosh, I owe the school money so my kid can eat." That's just wild. >> Yeah. And I' I've watched people many times uh find a young couple that were struggling.

Just, you know, you again, four, five, 6,000 bucks in most cases, right? and you can pay the whole year out and just go this is the whole year and put enough on on file with that with the utility that it a year or plus or minus but somewhere and people's hey that changes changes it's a big deal it moves the needle with people there's all kinds of stuff you can do guys all kinds of giving that's out there that's that's possible and probable so uh we jumped on

our Ramsey uh Facebook page if you didn't know there's a baby steps Facebook page and the baby steps community Facebook p group and we pled them said [clears throat] which type of giving feels the most meaningful to you financial uh was 13%.

Helping someone directly whether it's with money or time 72%.

Uh just volunteering time was 11%. So that's good response. Have you ever regifted a Christmas gift you didn't like? 100% I would. Yeah. 87% said they

had no is 13%.

>> They were just too nice. Yeah.

So, I left a bottle of wine at my friend's house about a month and a half ago >> on purpose. >> Yeah. I mean, we took we took wine over there to have dinner and I left an extra bottle. It was it was a nice bottle. And so, he came to my house this week for dinner and brought brought me my bottle.

>> The same bottle. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Wow.

>> He knew it was a regift. He knew it was a regift gift. Regift. Yeah.

>> It's just going to keep making it round. >> It's pretty fun though. Yeah. What motivates you most to give? A desire to help someone in need? 37% my faith or my personal values 48% seeing the impact 7%

it makes me feel good 8% do you tip at

kiosk screens and nonsitdown restaurants

or coffee shops uh 64% never 31% no or I mean sometimes

George 100% no >> those just here's the thing here's the the tip off that bothers me they start being nice to me as soon as they flip the screen Until then, their attitude changes. >> Until then, they weren't nice. >> Until then, there was just a transaction to them, but all of a sudden it's I like those glasses. Hey, how's your day going? And I go, this is clearly a ruse to get me to give you. >> Going to spin the old uh iPad around

here. And yeah, >> cuz you want generosity. It's a matter of the heart. I want to be inspired to give, not forced like an obligation. And uh so that's a good example there. But I love this one. My faith or personal value. So half of people were motivated because it was a value in their life.

>> And guess what? You get to choose the values you have. That's pretty cool.

>> Yeah. And if you don't like them, you can choose another one. >> I would choose generosity. So try that out. Make it a value. >> Generosity >> and then make it practical. Put it in the budget and say, "We're going to give this month." And if you're a person of faith, this should be a part of the rhythm of your life already.

>> Absolutely.

>> [music]

[music]

>> in the lobby of Ramsay. solutions on the debt-free stage. Will and Madison are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hey, great to see you guys.

>> You, too. Merry Christmas. Where do y'all live? >> Merry Christmas. We cruised with y'all in March, so we're so glad to see y'all again. >> I love it. Very fun. Where do you live?

>> Uh, Salem, North Carolina. It's about 30 minutes outside of Fort Bragg.

>> Oh, yeah. Fun. Very cool. All right. And how much debt have you guys paid off?

>> Right at $336,000.

I love it. And how long did this take?

>> Right at nine and a half years.

>> There you go. I like it. And your range of income during that time?

>> So at the start we were just under a 100,000 at 98 and then at the end we

were right at 185k.

>> Okay, cool. What do y'all do for a living? >> So I'm an Army veteran and I actually just recently took a promotion to a training manager at the world's largest diialysis provider. >> Oh, very cool. Thanks for your service.

So, I was in IT for uh 20 years. Uh I

was a web developer and then a production systems engineer and but recently I just uh started my own sports cards business. >> I like it. >> Cool. All right. And so I'm guessing 9 and a half years, 330,000 in North Carolina. You paid off your mortgage.

>> It's the house. >> YEAH. [screaming] LOOKING AT WEIRD PEOPLE.

>> Way to go, you guys. Way to go. All right. So, tell us the story. How did you get connected to Ramsay and decide to pay off your home? >> So, the connection to Ramsay started about 20 years ago. Actually, my brother Elliot, he works here at Ramsay.

>> Ah, okay.

>> I wondered why half the crew was out here. >> That's right. So, when Elliot was in the Marine Corps, he introduced our entire family to the Total Money Makeover, and it transformed all of our lives. And while I was in the army, I actually paid off my student loans, $60,000.

And I wanted to come and do my debtree scream with y'all then. But army life is a little hard to get time away sometimes. Um, so this is a huge bucket list thing for me to get to be here with my husband. Um, doing this together.

When we met and were dating, of course, we had the typical money conversations because I needed to feel that out. Mhm.

>> And when he started talking to me about how he budgets and how he lived on the

dollar menu at McDonald's when that existed and he only had this much to get through the week, I said, "Oh my gosh, do you do the Dave Ramsey plan?" And he said, "I have no idea who that is, but I

do [laughter] the BIBLE'S PLAN." [screaming] >> And I said, "That is totally the same thing. We can continue dating." >> That's [laughter] amazing. >> No offense. Big fan now.

I think Jesus I think you Jesus trump I got Jesus trumped. That's what happened. I saw that Trump card. [laughter] That's great.

>> What a flex. >> Yeah, that's definite flex. >> And then nine and a half years ago, what happened? >> So nine and a half years ago, I found my dream home and my dream man here gives me pretty much anything I want.

>> Oh, that's beautiful. If you're watching on YouTube and Spotify, she would. It's an American forquare built in 1917. It

is gorgeous. Um, it needed a few things when we moved in. So, it's the mortgage, uh, a ton of renovations that it needed and also a minivan to fit those three

little ones in. >> I lost that battle. I know the guy on earlier, he he won his I lost mine.

>> You're Yeah, that's okay. It's okay. You won overall. >> Yes. >> That's good. [laughter]

>> Wow. So you got the house and then n and but you got a plan and you guys together immediately say, "All right, how fast." So 10 years you pay off your house.

>> Yeah. The goal was to get it all done by the time we were 40 years old.

>> How old are you? >> We're both 39. >> Yeah, you did it. >> He is 2 weeks older than me. I always said I wanted to marry an older man. >> There you go. >> He's two weeks older than me. And we made that final payment on our mortgage on my 39th birthday.

>> I like it. You made it. Well,

congratulations. >> Thank you so much. Very, very well done.

All right. So, what's the house worth today?

>> It's right at like 450 grand.

>> Okay. >> We live in a very small town, so it's hard to get comps, but >> Yeah. But that's probably close. That's it's a beautiful home. And the um and your nest egg and your retirement accounts, how much have you got in there? >> So, with with everything, we're it's like 250k.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're about 800.

So, you're bumping up towards a million dollar net worth already and you're not even 40. >> Way to go, y'all. Proud of you.

>> Good work, you guys. Very good work.

How's it feel to be completely debtree?

>> I was telling her earlier on the way up here that it just feels like a weight off our chest. Um, >> you know, we we still grind. Like I said, I'd open, you know, start my own new business, but it just able to be more present with the kids and just

there at every, you know, every ball game and and there for everything. Just really, like I said, just a weight off our chest. >> Yeah. Way to go.

>> We got the kids here too, right?

>> We do. They're right. >> Wow. Now, how old are they? Cuz I'm curious where >> Bring them up and introduce them. Let's know learn their names and ages.

>> So, we have three kids. So that means I stopped keeping track of all of this after the first one or two. So uh 11,

Sergeant is 11, Pimberly is nine, and

Royal is eight. So >> very cool. >> And you cash flowed the three of them along with this journey, paying off the house and the van. >> We absolutely did. >> And I see uh Sergeant's got the straight out of baby step two shirt on, which is fantastic. >> Debtree and $1,000. He helps dad with the sports card business. They do that together. >> That's awesome. >> Way to go, you guys. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is being 40 years old 100% debtree?

>> I think a huge part of it is that age-old principle. Stop buying things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't even like.

>> Amen. Amen. Well, you guys have managed to work together very well, too.

>> Yes. Thank you.

>> Uh we're doing our giving show today.

You have any comments on generosity while you've been going through this process? We actually would love to share um a story with y'all. I'll I'll intro it and I'll let him finish it. Um my

husband has been for a long time a huge

basketball fan and a basketball coach and he coaches at a place called Falcon Christian Academy >> where the players are all from Falcon Children's Home >> and they all come from really rough backgrounds. They don't have parents or their parents aren't fit to raise them >> or their parents are in prison. and uh that is his ministry and that is where he gives back and um I'll let him take it from here kind of what we've done and what we're going to do going forward.

>> Yeah. So just we um I I run a church basketball league and we raise we have a a charity game where we raise between 1,500 to 2500 um every year. Um and and

I just say you know hey here's here's the money that the children's home can do with it whatever they may. Um we um

the kind of the the thing that started uh a fire in my heart about it was um I I live on paydays, you know, um on the road, the candy bar, sorry, the payday candy bar. [laughter] Um, and I I just was eating one day on

the on the driving the van to an away game and um the rustling of the the

candy bar just all the kids were like,

"What'd you got there?" And I was like, "Oh." They were like, "Are you going to eat that?" I was like, "Oh, no.

Apparently, apparently not." >> Yeah. Not anymore. And the just one one

of them took one payday bar and they like it was like almost like breaking bread and they shared it with with each other and I just >> I went home told her that story and tried not to get choked up. It's just that'll get it going for >> they take care you know good care of all their needs um and everything but there's just you know they're >> they don't have any luxuries. they have wants. And so, actually, on the way up here, we were organizing um to to get a

shoe drive to to get all the kids, they didn't have proper not not all of them have proper basketball shoes. So, and >> you know, one kid in particular is wearing wear having to wear size nine and he's actually an 11 cuz I gave him a pair of my shoes and he fit him perfectly. >> I used to work at a shoe store a long time ago. I was like, "Oh, that works." >> Wow. And but just that we just do

different things with with Falcon Christian Academy. >> And now you don't have a house payment, so you can do whatever you want. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Amen. >> All right. >> Congratulations, you guys. Very proud of y'all. Well done. Well done, Will and

Madison, Sergeant Pimberly, and Royal right outside of Fort Bragg. 336,000 paid off in 9 and a half years, MAKING 100 TO 185. HOUSE AND EVERYTHING.

THEY'RE WEIRD.

They're debtree. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Got it. >> In three, two, one.

>> We're debtree.

>> YEAH. [cheering]

[laughter] >> I love it.

>> It's like [music] some kids are getting some new shoes this Christmas along with some payday bars >> in Jesus name. I love it. Well done.

Well done.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Yeah. Our scripture of the day, Luke 2:7-9. [music] And she gave birth to her firstborn son.

And she wrapped him in clothes and laid him in a manger because there was no room for them in the end. And there were shepherds out in the field keeping watch by night, and an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them.

Billy Graham said, "The very purpose of Christ coming into the world was that he might offer up his life as a sacrifice for the sins of men. He came to die."

This is the heart of Christmas.

They just handed me our debt-free screams for the year. This year we had 84 people do a debt-free scream in the

lobby here on the debt-free stage totaling 20 million 363762.

>> Wow. >> 363,762.

So 20 million3 20.3 million. And uh

that's that's a lot just that's just right here on the stage. >> That's just the ones we actually had come stand on the stage. We know there's many more out there who became debtree this year following the principles. And uh I'm inspired. Every dollar we had 3.5

billion in dollars saved and dollars paid. Money

saved and debt paid. Just the people using every dollar. 3.5 billion changing position this year. >> That is wild. >> So it's hard to wrap. >> We actually failed. We were trying to get four billion and we didn't make it.

But we'll make it next year. So it's okay. >> I hate it. I hate it when we fail like that. Well, if everyone used every dollar and used it accurately, reported the numbers, we'd be uh we'd be there.

So, easy. >> Enter your numbers in every dollar so we can track it. It's really fun. >> Yeah. Come on, people. >> We want to celebrate you. [laughter] >> It's our annual giving show. Britney's in Wisconsin. Hi, Britney. Merry Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Hi, Dave. George, thanks for taking my call. I'm excited to tell you the story.

>> Sure. >> So, earlier this year, we um had some

changes in our financial situation.

You're break you're breaking up. You had some changes in your financial situation and then what?

>> Yep. And then um all of our side hustling was just to kind of break even.

So we were we were in the red for expenses to income ratio. And so at that

time cash flowing a vehicle just wasn't possible. Um, so one of our friends who

is now premob to go serve our country,

he gifted us his truck. Um, and

technically, um, it was just for whatever we were able to sell our broken

down beater for. So, it was a very, very, very generous trade. It's a very nice truck. We're driving it down to Chicago this weekend and we have no worries in the world.

It's very reliable. It's got heated seats. It's awesome. >> Wow.

Wow. >> Yeah. Very very thankful for that. And then um shortly after that, my car completely totaled itself.

It broke down. And so my father-in-law, my husband's father, he retired. And so he had his daily driver left over and he gifted us that as well. So now we are a two vehicle family.

nights ago here in Wisconsin, it was -15

in the morning and I started it up. That car ripped on the first try. So, it's

we're very thankful to have two working vehicles. >> Amen. Amen. Yeah, that's a big deal. And

I'm thankful that people are in your life that looked up and saw it and said, "Hey, we can help." >> Yep. >> Yeah. That's a big deal. >> That awesome. >> Amen. Britney, thanks for sharing that.

That's a big That's awesome. Very, very cool. >> It's amazing how a car can change your life. Get you from A to B reliably.

>> What a cool. >> It's come up a lot today.

>> Yeah. >> Sometimes we have more car stories than others, but today was a lot of car stories. forget how life-changing that can be. >> Carrie is in Delaware. Hi, Carrie. Merry Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Merry Christmas, uh Dave and George.

Thank you so much for having me. Um my husband and I, we have followed your plan since 2012, and we are debtree. And

over the years, we've tried to model um generosity for our daughters. We have three girls. Um, and a couple weeks ago, our youngest daughter, who is 16, who's a junior in high school, um, started telling us about how one of the band members, um, in her marching band, her sister who's 20, was just recently diagnosed with cancer.

>> And that the there was an upcoming band trip, which they have every year, and the students in the leadership of the marching band were kind of putting together, scraping money together to help with the next installment of the band payment that was due. And so I was

I was really impressed. My husband and I are listening and like I look at my husband, I'm like I asked how much the next payment was and she said $300. And I said, "What if we just paid it and made it like a secret Santa and you guys you could just take it in?" And my daughter was like happy but not shocked.

She was like, "That would be so amazing." And I was like, "Yeah." So couple days went by, my husband came home from work. He had stopped at a local hardware store and while he was at the register, the cashier was putting a collection bucket out for the sister who was sick.

my daughter was excited um she had actually used some of her own money and paid for u made a donation to the GoFundMe for the sister that's sick so long story short I emailed you guys told you about the story I was really impressed by all these kids and like my daughter just the spirit of you know giving and then Mon Monday after I emailed the show my daughter called me from school. She had gone in to go pay the balance. And the band teacher was so impressed. And then he said, "Actually, it's been taken care of with all the generosity of the kids coming up with their money." And my daughter was like, she said to me, "It's already been taken care of.

Could we just donate for groceries for a month?" And I said, "Absolutely." So, they're going to do a little Christmas party tomorrow night for the her um friend and the marching man, and they're going she's going to give her like a still a secret Santa thing, but this way groceries will be taken care of. Um, so the girl can go on the trip, she has spending money and the family will be able to not have to worry about um, you know, the trip cost of the trip but also groceries for a month. So, >> um, and I said this is the whole this is the whole point of like doing this is that like because after the first time my daughter said it to us, my husband's like this is why we're following this so that when we're not here someday, our kids can continue to be generous, you know, and it doesn't have to be always like a monetary thing.

You talk about holding the door for people and just smiling and being kind. And that's why, you know, that's that's our goal as parents is that when we're not here anymore, our parent our, you know, kids will like continue the legacy and just be good people. So, >> absolutely, they'll pay they'll pay it forward. Way to go, Carrie.

>> Kurt is IN VENICE, ITALY. WOW. Merry

Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Hi guys. Hi guys. Dave George, I'll be real quick. Another grocery story. I'm over in Italy. My wife's always wanted to be here. So, here we are. We're at the grocery store. We go to check out.

There's a gentleman in front of us. You could tell he had just come from work.

You know, he was all decked out. Went to pay for his groceries. Didn't have any luck. His debit card didn't work.

He pulled out another one. Didn't work. Got real nervous. Asked if he could run outside real quick to find his wife.

So, he did. And we're kind of all watching him. And everybody's kind of accumulating at the checkout and everybody's getting nervous. So, my wife and I are like, "We'll just pay for his groceries.

Let's just take care of that." So, we did. Then, we took care of ours. Then we ran his groceries out to him. All right.

Obviously, the guy was very appreciative. Everybody in line was appreciative. Here's where it gets really good. Couple days later, we get a call from my daughter.

She's in Park City, Utah.

She had a new used phone that she got from her father-in-law, and she went to pay for her groceries. Two little kiddos in in tow. Her her Apple Pay hadn't been

entered in her phone yet. Okay, this is like 2 days later. Dave and George didn't work. She didn't have her debit card on her. She didn't have enough cash. The guy in back of her insisted on

paying for her groceries. We paid $22

for the gentleman's groceries. This gentleman behind my daughter two days later, $160.

>> My daughter was absolutely in tears. But can you believe we do it here? Didn't tell a soul. Two days later, my daughter

has the exact same experience and the guy behind her steps up and purchases her groceries. Like, what a great story.

>> I absolutely can believe that. So, I absolutely can believe that. Wow. Way to go. Very >> just a little God nod there.

>> Amen. >> That's really neat. >> Well, guys, remember the greatest gift of all was Christmas when God sent his only begotten son.

Yeah. He came to die for our sins.

Remember that.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ

Jesus.

[music]

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## 168. The Best Financial Plans Don’t Rely On Debt | May 27, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, Ramsey Personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Lynn is in Los Angeles. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Perfect. Um, I'm 77, retired, and I

about 10 years ago, I took out a reverse mortgage on my home that was paid for, but of course now I owe that. And it's about $98,000 and racking up interest, of course, every month. Astronomical. And I don't use it. I haven't used it probably in in in right after I first got it. And um

>> by use it, you haven't been sorry. By using it, you mean you haven't been receiving the payments? >> I haven't been taking funds out. No, at all. Uhuh. One time I think I did.

>> Well, for a while to get it off to 90,00.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, what is the interest rate on this ridiculous mess?

>> Oh, I think it's about six something 6%.

And I I know the interest. I when I look at the um the statement, it's about $500

and some dollars a month. It seems like now >> that'd be about right. >> So that's like Yeah, that's kind of killing me. Um but I don't know what to

do. I have a a traditional IRA with

about $230,000 in it >> and I also have a high yield savings account with about $80,000 in it. Mhm.

>> I'm very reluctant to use my high yield savings account to at least pay a portion of it off because I just like having that security of knowing that money is there. And I was wondering if I used my traditional IRA, would the taxes

kill me?

>> You'll have taxes on it, but you won't have any penalty. Um what um what other

nest egg do you have? Is that it? Your total your total balance? about another 15,000 in just my regular savings account. >> What are you living on?

>> I have retirement social security and um a teacher's retirement. >> Okay, cool. So, how much a month do you have coming in?

>> About $4,500 >> and you live on that?

>> Yes. >> And you're in Los Angeles?

>> Yeah, Len, do you have >> But I have no debt. I have no debt other than that reverse mortgage. Yeah. Do what margin do you have per month? Like out of the 4,500, how much is left after

you have all your living expenses?

>> Oh gosh, probably

um well, my son and daughter-in-law live with me and they they chip in and everything, so I probably have about you know um 28 $3,000 left by at the end of

the month. When we share expenses.

>> Okay. What's the What's the home worth?

probably about 850,000.

>> Okay. So, at the tune of 6,000 So,

basically the $6,000 a year in interest

is just being added to it.

>> That's right. >> So, it's just chipping away at So, if we did that for if we did that for 10 years, you'd be 87. If we did it for 20 years, you'd be uh 97,

>> right? >> Okay. And that would still only be $120,000.

Oh, it' be more than that because interest is gonna be on the interest, but it'd be 150,000 more. And so at that

point, you're going to have um $350,000

owed on whatever that property is worth 20 years from today.

>> Right. >> It doesn't bother me. I'm going to let it sit there.

>> You would. Now, the other thing is though, what if something happens and I have to say move in with my daughter?

Technically, I'm with a reverse mortgage. I have to live in that house.

So, then I'd have to sell it. Exactly.

That would be my other the only other option. >> Exactly. And you probably would do that anyway.

If you had a paid $4 million house and you moved in with your daughter, you probably wouldn't keep the paid $4 million house.

>> Okay. So, your suggestion would be just

I'm going to let it ride. If you told me doing what it's doing. >> Yeah. If you told me you had another three or 400,000 laying around somewhere, I would use a hundred of it and pay it off for peace of mind only.

But I I don't want to take you down by a

h 100red grand from $310,000 worth of

money. >> What do you think?

>> I guess I'm a little shocked just to say to keep it, but as as you go out the math Well, and especially since you're not working, Lynn, and my thing is too,

even with the with the margin though per month, you're still not going to it's going to take a while to get to. >> You know what the other thing is? You could do this. You could you could do what you're talking about. I see where you're going already. um you could take like 50,000 of your 80, throw it at it

and um then take it run over to the

credit union and get a loan and pay off that loan out of your margin in a couple of years and you'll be back to debtree in two or three four years.

>> I could do that. I could also I also thought I thought about doing the 50,000 out of my uh high yield and then also

maybe 50,000 out of my

um >> you could but that's going to cost you 20% or 10 15% or something more than the

interest at the credit union >> and I I probably would nibble at it um

and say $1,000 a month for 50 months and

be done that way or 40 months or something like that. Yeah, >> I got you. You could do $1,000 a month.

>> And also, if I paid it down even by $50,000, the interest wouldn't be obviously that much.

>> Well, your payment per month, yeah, would be less, right? >> Yeah. It's just going to acrue at whatever the balance is. But if you ran over to the credit union and got just a simple little loan and, you know, on a four-year note or something, you probably would pay off >> because a credit union interest rate would be >> lower, >> three, four.

>> Yeah. No, probably five right now. But, um, somewhere in there. I mean, it just ask them what they would loan $50,000 on a million-doll house.

Oh my gosh.

And um but >> yeah, but are they going to consider the there? Well, I guess >> I I want I want a ridiculously good interest rate and no closing cost is what I want if I'm you. But that's an idea. You could explore that with them

and then you could pay it off and >> Well, because the grand sitting there, Lynn, technically I look at that as your emergency fund, right? And if you did >> three or six months of that, it would it would not add up >> to 80 grand. >> Yeah. You got you got some extra there.

>> Yes. So, even if you left 30 and threw 50 at it, like what you were saying, I think that gives you plenty of room to be there. >> All All we're doing there is not solving a financial crisis because you don't have one. We're solving an aggravation.

You do have that. And um we're solving,

as Dr. John Deloney says, we're solving for peace. And so I love the idea of you

being 80 and zero debt on this house because it's aggravating you so much that you called us.

>> Well, in your home, it's the it's a there's a safety net there. There's something to be said when you own it outright, >> especially in your 80s.

>> Yes. Yes. that if you don't get, you know, if you get in trouble or something. And the good thing is too, Len, regardless of which way you, you know, you slice it or you do it is is the value of the home now, um, so

outweighs everything. So even if you did have a crisis and you did have to sell for something, you know, you still have a good amount of equity. >> Hundreds and hundreds of thousands. Yeah. Yeah. You're in good shape. So yeah, this is a um, >> it's a bad product, though. You see it on cable news. >> Yeah. >> Reverse mortgages, walk-in bathtubs.

Stay away, people. Stay away.

>> If you're buying your financial products where they sell Snuggies and walk-in bathtubs, you have a problem. Yeah.

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>> Eddie's in Denver. Hey Eddie, what's up in your world?

>> Thank you for taking my call. Appreciate it. >> Certainly.

Um, so I had a I I'm third generation on

a in a family business. We farm and ranch. Uh, in 2018, my dad got real sick

and uh stepped up to the plate and bought bought everybody out and just me and my wife run the place now.

>> Wow. >> Um, how did you do that?

>> I have

with no sleep. Uh, frankly, a lot of

hard work.

>> Yeah. Yeah. How much How much do you owe on the ranch?

Well, that's I owe nothing as of uh last November. >> Wow. You got it all paid off.

>> Yeah. Uh might be the luckiest person

you've talked to, Dave.

>> How much was it for? >> A little over five and a five and a quart million. >> Wow. Good for you.

>> Way to go, Eddie. >> Just a few things kind of fell in my lap and we took advantage and um like I said, just a lot of luck and I've got a really good partner on my side. My wife is fantastic.

Yeah. >> Um, >> sounds like you worked a lot. It's not like you worked to create luck. I like it.

>> I don't No, I think it's just luck on my end. But anyways, I I got got everything

paid off and now we're stepping into a

different season here and uh I have a neighbor place that connects straight to us and it's it's a good place. We've

farmed and ranched next to each other for three generations and they don't have anybody in line and they came to me here last month and asked if I was interested and and I am. I am interested. And the reason I am is I've got two little boys. Uh they're pretty young. They're seven and four and I got a nephew 21 male. All three someday I

hope will work for me. I don't want to play anybody's life, but that's the goal. And to do that, I would need to uh grow the place a little bit. And this would be a heck of an opportunity for me. >> Yeah. Sound sounds good. Even if you were just building a business to sell it, which you're pro, you got so much um

family emotion in this one, you're probably not doing that. But even, you know, it sounds like an opportunity to grow the business, period. So, what's the place going to cost?

>> Uh upfront's going to cost 4.65. Um

>> what's upront mean?

>> Uh well, that's what they want is 4.65, 65, but they've got a residence on it that I'm uninterested in owning. Um, and I've talked to two real estate agents and that and 40 acres should bring a little over a million and a quarter. And then there's another uh quarter section that is detached that I'm uninterested in owning and that should bring right around 380 to 400,000.

>> Mhm. >> So, be about a million. >> So, you you came up with five and a quarter. How fast to pay off your debt?

uh 2018 to now.

>> Okay. So, you did that in um >> eight years. >> In eight years. >> Eight. Eight years. Yes.

>> Okay. All right. And now now >> and little sleep with a lot of luck is what you kept pushing to. >> I understand. Understand. So, I I don't

borrow money for anything, particularly

for business, because it doesn't always work out the way this last one worked out for you.

I'm proud of you. I'm glad you got out, but I don't want to sign up again for the hell you just got out of. But I do want this piece of property. So, how do we do this? So, the way Dave does it, um

I bought a uh an office building many

many years ago for 5 million and uh I

didn't have two nickels to rub together at the moment, but I was making really good money like you've been doing. you've got uh more than two nickels, but

um I leased that building with a 5-year

option to purchase it for 5 million and I closed on it at the

5year mark. It took that I mean I scratched every nickel out of the corner of the couch, right? To to get to get do that. Um the good news is by the time I closed on it, it was worth 13 million.

So it was a great deal, right?

>> But I didn't have any debt. >> Yes. And I didn't have to close on it if

crap went sideways.

And welcome to agriculture, right? Crap goes sideways. >> Yes. >> And so uh we cannot predict this rain and sunshine thing. We cannot predict,

you know, disease and everything else that you guys deal with that are the the um >> Yeah. What do you do on the land, Eddie?

Specifically, is it farm? You said ranching. Like what's what is it specifically? >> We we run cattle mainly. Yeah. Cattle.

>> So, yeah. Beef prices. Hello. Can we Can we spell volatile? Yeah.

>> And And so, um, you know, if I'm you, I'm going to talk to them. How much cash could you scrape together to pay them for a right to buy it for five years? Could you give them a

half million dollars?

>> Yes. >> Without going in debt?

>> Yes. >> Okay. How much could you give them now?

cash probably a million and a quarter.

But that'd leave me with >> No, I don't want you poor. I'm just asking how much cash you got. Okay. I'm not I'm not suggesting that. But my point is, okay, so we need four

if we turn if we turn around. So here you could you could if you don't want to borrow money and I don't want to borrow money. So that's how I'm trying to figure this out. Okay. You're probably going to go do it the old way if you uh but because you got away with it the last time you did it. Okay. But if you did it my way, a way to do it would be to option it and line up the sale of the

two pieces of property >> to simultaneously close the day you close to buy it.

So that gets your need all the way down to under $3 million.

>> Yes. >> And you've got a million of that.

>> You don't want to put it all in there today, but that's the number. So we need So I need two million bucks. So, what am how fast am I going to come up with that? Oh, a three-year or a 5-year option, and I give you 500k to be applied to the purchase price, and I'm going to rent it from you for a maximum of five years. And as soon as I can scrape the money together, we're going to close on it. But I don't want to borrow money.

And you talk to that old ranch that's four generations, and he's going to understand, I don't want to borrow money.

>> Understood. >> They want their money now, but they can understand you saying that.

If you could talk them into giving a half million dollars now and a threeyear or fiveyear option and you scrape together the other two, two and a half, you line up simultaneous closings on the other two parcels off the and you close on all of it the same day. You're your actual cash need is not that high and you're going to get there. >> Well, and for them, if you really did that, that's 1.8 that you pay them with the other properties selling. >> Yeah.

And then you throw in, you know, even if you threw in 200,000, it's two million bucks that they may get on closing day, right?

>> No, they're going to get their whole four million on closing day. 4.6.

>> The buy the seller next door.

>> Yeah. >> We're going to give them 4.6 the day you close on it. >> But you're closing in five years.

>> Sometime between now and five years.

Yeah. And >> No, but I'm saying can you can he parcel out now and put and sell some of those properties? Go ahead now and let them sell. >> No, you can't sell off. You can't sell off. Oh, let them sell them off. Yeah, they be fine if they sold off and then it takes it down for what you owe them.

>> Yeah, you if you guys want some of your money today, that's a good idea. >> Well, because they want the cash is what you're saying. >> Yeah. If they want some of their cash today, they could go ahead and get almost 2 million of it now.

>> You know, whatever the whatever the 408 40 and then the backtrack that you don't want. Yeah. Whatever the total of that is, let them go ahead and do that.

>> And uh I do want this, but this is what the net net's going to be. And yeah, that that that actually puts half the money in their pocket now if they sell off those tracks. >> Yep. Which is what I just said about 45 seconds ago. Thank you.

>> I'm I'm catching up with you. Took me a minute. It's what happens when I'm not on the air for a while. >> I know, Dave. You're great, though. >> I'm running slow. >> No, you're not. The mind is sharp.

>> Very interesting deal. >> The mind is sharp. >> Here's the thing. >> You love a puzzle, though. A real estate puzzle is what you love. And what I love is when you take debt as an option off

the table, now you got to figure out a way to do it. >> And now your now your creativity kicks in. Now you start to think, okay, I could get the neighbor to sell off or I could sell it off or I could simultaneous closings or I could do options. I can do but if I'm just unwilling to borrow money >> and I don't have the money, how am I going to figure this out? And so the,

you know, the way we've grown Ramsey, I mean, we've got a,000 people working in this building and, uh, 300 million a year in revenue. 100% the way we just

talked about, we have in every case used

the profits from something we were doing

here to start a new something we were doing here. And the profits from that starts the things for drives the next thing. and um >> which takes a lot more work and a lot more patience and some frustration, but

so much more peace, right? Cuz at the end of it, there's no risk >> and it's sustainable. Yeah. Nobody's no banker is going to come and screw you over. And believe me, it's like their full-time job.

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Claire is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Claire. How are you?

>> Good. How are you all? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

So my question to you is just how do I

continue to honor my parents biblically um if they are dishonorable especially when it comes to financial matters.

>> They're dishonorable meaning they're not great with money. What they do with money you don't agree with.

>> Well so I'm assisting but they say all

kinds of things to me that are just to me not dis I'm not honorable as parents and I'm trying to still honor them biblically. >> Okay. Biblically to honor someone is not to honor everything they do. It's to honor the position of parenthood. We

honor our father and our mother so that

we we may live long in the land. Okay, to quote Old Testament, right? And so we want to honor but we but if mom's doing cocaine, we don't honor the cocaine >> or she's being verbally abusive to in other words, if she's misbehaving. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we don't honor misbehavior, >> but we but we do honor the position. So, the same would be true where we're called biblically to um honor our

leaders and pray for our leaders. So,

you know, I didn't agree with much of anything Joe Biden did, but I honored the position he held as president and I prayed for him as a person. But I don't have to agree with any of his policies to do that. It's the same thing. you honor the position, not the

>> and and that's got to do with your nobility and your dignity. Um, but that

does not mean you are enabling or allowing uh ridiculous, you know,

interactions.

And so, >> okay. >> Yeah. Just if you you get above that and go, you know, I honor, you know, you can honor fatherhood and have never met your father. Claire, um what's what what is

it currently your relationship dynamic?

Because are you taking care of them financially? What's going on?

>> Yes. So, my um my mom lives overseas, so

I was financially taking care of them uh taking care of her. Um in terms of just

like helping out monthly. Um, but it got

to a point where I was overextending myself too much and I fell back into a

lot of debt that I thankfully was able to pay off by just hustling um for the last couple of months with work and picking up as much overtime as possible.

But >> and I still owe a little bit more um because I still have to pay for some things that I shipped overseas to her that have landed. But we I talked to her today and she got frustrated at me because I had to cut off some things financially cuz it just was not in my means anymore. >> And um she said some some very hurtful things to me that I know is not true to my character. But >> I just and I it was not right.

I yelled at her and I got upset because of what she was saying to me. And you know I I prayed about it and I repented and then I sent her a text but she blocked me.

you know you're trying to be generous and kind and helping her right from with the financial support monthly. So, it's more just about boundaries, Claire, and you having integrity within yourself to say this, I still feel good about this action of taking care of because you may, right? She may be horrible to you, but I don't know what her living situation is, and maybe you think, I still want to be able to make sure that she's good, and that's the route you want to take. Then maybe from the relationship perspective is where the boundaries have to be.

Maybe you look up and you're like, I I can't have a relationship anymore and I don't feel good financially, maybe because of your numbers or just because of the whole situation. Um, right, >> with whatever you decide. So, um, yeah, the the thing that happens is when we're

helping someone, um, entitlement can set

in. And she felt she felt entitled

to your money.

And when you said, "I'm not able to do that for whatever reason." It was as if you took her money away from her because she already owned it in her mind. That's what entitlement means.

>> Okay? She feels like she already owned your money and like you stole it back from her. And that can be compounded and made even worse by uh cultural norms.

What country is she in?

>> West Africa. >> Yeah, for sure. Cultural norms are at

play in this, right?

>> Because it's it's much more normal there

for generations to take care of each other, even if they go broke doing that, which is dysfunctional. than it would be

uh in in uh in America where we have where we're very compartmentalized from our extended family and that's a cultural norm here not one's not right one's not wrong it's just norm because you know that there has its roots in just sheer survival this idea that I'm that you take care of your mom you take care of your kid you take care of your auntie you know you take care >> even well yeah and yeah you could look at all different cultures right and families living together, multigenerational, all of it. But um okay, so going forward, Claire, what's your gut?

What are you what are you thinking? >> So moving forward, my thing was to just I told her I said, "I cannot help for a while because I have to get financially stable and I can't help you if I cannot help myself first." That's right. um to get on a proper footing and she seemed like she understood but at the end of the day I really come down to I don't think she understood really because it's it's hard for her to comprehend that the the more I try to explain my financial situation to her the more she thinks oh well you make this much money then you should be able to help me with this much.

her so much about it. Um, but so I sent

her some things overseas that should help her for the next 6 months to a

year. Like I I and that's what put me in debt because I I I spent a lot of money on things that I knew would be beneficial to her for her to sell and make money over there. So, and I told

her the reason why she's upset at me is because I told her I cannot transport the things from the dock to your house cuz she lives 3 hours away from the port. I said, "You have to figure out a way or I can talk to the shipper to um

maybe like work something out where you can go get it little by little." And she's just like, "Oh, you left me in a bind and my husband's not working." And I'm and I'm like, "Okay, well, excuse my stepdad." But I'm like, "It's not I didn't make him not work." So, I I didn't know how to respond to that. And I just like got so mad because she he kept on telling me, you know, "Oh, you're you're good for nothing. Like, you don't help me out. You put me in a bind.

You're doing this." I'm like in my mind, I'm like, "Wow." Okay. So, I just start started yelling. I'm like, "I have feelings, too." you know, and it's not fair to me. And she's like, "It is fair to you.

didn't want to yell at her. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's Yeah. Uh, is that a pattern though with your relationship?

Did that Did that shock you that she responded like that or >> It did It did not shock me honestly. It was just more of like a Twitch instant response just because of >> all that's been going on. But it did not shock me. I was not like upset in a sense, but I was more hurt by what she said.

two areas that you need to clarify in your mind, your boundaries. And you may want to sit down with your pastor or somebody and discuss it. You need to clarify your relational boundaries as to what I'm what am I willing to let someone that I love say to me?

am I, you know, Mom, I'm not going to have this discussion. If you're going to raise your voice, we'll have to talk another time. If you're going to cuss at me, we're going to have to talk another time. Okay? And just hang up. And uh

when you you know I'll talk to you as long as we can talk reasonably. We can disagree, but we're not going to be disagreeable. And and that's one set of boundaries. And the second set of boundaries is what amount of money is reasonable.

You putting yourself in debt does not make sense to do this. So that's not that's unreasonable. But if you're going to ship goods over there, um you need to think about how you're going to get them to her. Um you know, the three-hour gap is a bit of a problem on your end.

So, how I mean, how'd you how'd you think that was going to work? I don't know why it would work. It shouldn't work. So, you probably should have gotten them all the way to her doorstep or not done the whole shipping of goods thing.

So, um, yeah. So, I Yeah, you set your

financial boundaries and your relational boundaries, and they should be two different. They're not tied together. My financial boundaries aren't tied to my relational boundaries. I can have a quality relationship and give no money.

I can give a lot of money and not tolerate misbehavior that they can they don't have to go together. But uh but for sure those things but that what this does it puts you just completely into a tornado and it's it it hurts. It hurts.

And um so yeah, just back up and

deescalate and reset what you are

willing to do. And then the next time you approach a conversation, what am I willing to do with the way we talk about things, our relationship? What am I willing to do >> financially financially?

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Jessica is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

>> Hi. Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, well, I wanted to ask you guys a question. Um, a little background. I'm 32 years old and I am an attorney in LA

County. Uh, I've been working hard to save up for my retirement and, you know, investments and all that. and I've been in a long-term relationship for about 3 years with my partner who's 41. And marriage is on the horizon.

And I just kind of I had I had my sus suspicions, but I recently found out that or confirmed that he doesn't have any investment accounts or like retirement accounts. And so this really concerned me and I just wanted to some insight from you guys about, you know, how big of a red flag is this? You know, can he catch up?

even being concerned about this at all?

So, just really wanted your insight.

>> Wow. >> Do you know why, Jessica, that he has no retirement?

>> Uh, I asked and um kind of the common

responses might be like, you know, well, I was just planning to work my whole life, which it's like you don't have that choice, right? You could get injured or have a disability. um other other things were like you know I haven't had benefits in the past maybe working for smaller employers he's a sole proprietor now so it's just kind of a mix of >> what does he make >> uh I don't know exactly um >> it's three years you need to know >> I know I know I I I think approximately probably gross 100 to 150 that would be that's kind of my guess he told me once >> g gross is not net I mean what's his taxable incomes what I'm is he making 30 grand and trying to live in Uh I I know I should know that, but I I don't because you know he he recently went out on his own and so >> um when you kind of start your own business, year one is you know zero pretty much.

>> No. >> If the reason that you want to know is because you're greedy and all about money, then yes, you would be superficial. But if the reason you want to know and the reason you want a plan in place is because the way we handle money is indicative of our emotional,

>> psychological, spiritual maturity and our character is reflected in how we handle money then yes this is of great concern. >> Yeah. And I the reason why I felt and

this might come from a selfish place, but I couldn't help but feel like all this time that I've you know the money that I've responsibly saved in multiple accounts and whatever um I couldn't help

but feel like it would be a subsidy for someone else. And I know the whole, you know, once you're married, you're one. I totally understand that. But you can't help but feel like maybe your retirement quality of life would go down because >> Yes. But I think you would feel different, Jessica, if we painted a little bit of a dramatic picture. But if his parents were sick and he was their

caretaker and like did all this and didn't have the margin to save for retirement, but he was telling you at 45 this is his plan. You know what I mean?

Like if there was like a effort for the

reason why and a good reason, I don't think you would feel like that. I think you'd be like, "God, you are a good man and you you're going to be a really great husband and I'm excited to partner with you." It wouldn't feel like a subsidy if what he was doing was >> if you're subsidizing if you're subsidizing I really don't want a plan and I kind of just want to work for myself even though I make half of what I would make working for somebody else.

And u you know all of this screams lack of ambition, lack of you know and >> well lack of lack of planning and and forethought. And when you go into a relationship with someone, >> right, a long-term lifelong >> and they don't have uh the ability to think >> far out in the future and and monetarily of just taking care of >> it's not a deal killer. It's not a deal killer, but it is not superficial for you to be concerned either because what it's indicative of.

>> And so what is what is what's the source that's driving his lack of doing it?

because you're, you know, and we could go on the other side and go, are you obsessed with money and all you do is think about retirement and I don't want to live with somebody like that, you know, and no, we don't want to go that way either, right? But but this idea that that we're we're solving for peace again to quote Dr. John Deloney, which we do over and over, I'm afraid. But um yeah, I'm solving for peace. I'm Why am I saving for retirement? So I can eat.

That's solving for peace. >> Yeah. And if I don't have a partner that's going to be >> not even equal dollar amount but equal effort, you know what I mean? In that

>> uh yeah, that's equal. And it's not a, you know, >> a woman versus man thing. I think the opposite would be the same. If a guy called and said, "Yeah, she has nothing.

She hasn't really thought about it.

>> She I'd be like, golly, what is what is she doing?" Like, you know what I mean? It's >> I want to be a kept woman.

>> That's an old phrase. Some of y'all have to look that one up. >> I will. I will at the break. >> There you go. >> Kelly doesn't know either.

>> Well, again, it's someone who doesn't do anything and is being taken care of.

>> Yeah. >> Kept. >> Yes. >> You know, that's the that's the definition. That's an old >> And that's not a stay-at-home mom. I No,

I know. I hear the >> say not earning income. I didn't say that. I said doesn't do anything.

>> Yes. That's it. That's it. Not allowed.

Yes. >> Your mother's a full-time mom for 40 years. She's anything but kept. >> Yes. That's right. I'll just tell you that. Don't even put that word near her.

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And Rachel, I I think the later people

get married, and they're getting married later and later and later, >> the more this type of discussion comes up. >> 100%. Yeah. >> Two broke 21 year olds don't have this issue. >> Mhm. >> You know, they're like, "Game on. Here we go. Whatever it is, let's go." you know, and uh saddle up, right?

>> Yeah. And and it's it's worthy of the discussion because if you built, you know, definitely because if you've built a life and you've worked hard on something and you have had a set of principles financially through your 20s, even your early, you know, your 30s, whatever that is timeline wise for you, and then you choose to get married to someone, you you have built a substantial life over, you know, one to two decades of working. And it's and I do think it it would be easier to merge

and mold those two lives when your values are the same. But when you're coming at it so separately and your results have been so different over the same amount of working time or hers even I mean he's 10 years older than her, you know, and he has nothing and she's 10 years, you know, the last caller.

>> You know what I mean? Like that's that's where the that that's the hard part that that is that's the tension point. Um because it it reveals it reveals who you are and what kind of partner you're going to be. Yeah.

Ratio-wise of income to savings, >> there should be some kind of something going on. >> Yes. >> So, not dollar amount to maybe it's not about the money amount and it's not about uh I'm going to measure your value based on your bank account. That's not it at all.

But we are saying what created that.

And are those character qualities attractive >> or uh are they going to cause you to become bitter out of lack of respect?

>> Yes. Resentment of what they're doing.

Yeah. >> Yeah. If you lose respect, right after that comes resentment. >> Yep. >> And so um you know, okay, I really like him. He's, you know, he's he's a lot of fun and all that, but but I don't respect him. >> That's that doesn't play long. >> That's right. Yeah. But but if it's something as simple as uh I've got to address this cuz I'm afraid it could go to that. That's okay.

>> Mhm. >> And you go before we go forward with marriage, I've got we got to be on the same page with this. And I I I want to be able to respect your effort. Yes.

>> Respect your forethought, your maturity.

>> Uh and um if we can't do that, that is going to that's going to be a deal killer, not the fact that there's no money. >> That's right. Absolutely. No, I totally agree. >> That is that's a deal breaker. And uh that's really tough when you've been in something for 3 years and you're 31 or 32 and you're an attorney. >> Yes. And also knowing people's values can change. We get the question a lot. Should I marry someone with debt? And we're like, >> yes, >> yes, you can marry someone with debt.

But what is their value around that subject? >> Should you marry someone that wants to stay in debt forever? No.

>> If you want to be out, >> not if you want to be out. You're going to be pissed off your whole life. >> That's going to be hard, >> you know. So people can can change their values, right, with what the decisions you make. And that's that's the beautiful thing. There's redemption in it, right? It's not like who you were at 21 has to be who you are forever. Thank God. >> Um Yep. But but it is it is it's a more

weightier discussion with people getting married later. You're exactly right. Cuz you have built a coming up more >> a life. You know, >> we're getting it here on the air more. The questions coming in here.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Randy

is with us in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hi, Randy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm going to try to keep this as quick as possible. My husband and I have a varying income and recently sold one rental property, but now we're questioning whether that was the right move. We still own a duplex that cash flows, and we're also going through probate with an inherited home. We could potentially sell both pro properties, pay off around 225,000 in debt, and fly

through almost all of the baby steps besides retirement savings. Or should we keep them for long-term wealth building and cash flow?

>> Okay. So, you own currently two properties that are rented. Did I understand that right?

>> We have a duplex and both sides are rented. We just >> But the the other home the other home you you said co what did you say?

>> It'll be an inherited home and it's it's

not rented or anything right now. We're just starting probate.

>> Oh, so someone passed away >> to be rent. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Who who passed away?

>> My husband's mom in March. Okay.

>> And so you're going to inherit her home and you're going to do what with it?

Well, we don't know if we should rent it. There currently is about 40,000 in

debt on DSA. So, the home is worth

around 150,000, but we would have to pay

the, you know, 40,000 to keep it.

>> Yeah. Was that a child? Was that his childhood home?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. And the duplex, does it have debt on it?

>> It does. >> How much? It's about So, it's a little

confusing because we have two properties tied up in one mortgage and we did just sell an old older home that my husband

lived in. We sold that and it didn't knock our mortgage down. Um, all in all, for our house on 40 acres and that duplex, we only owe around

180,000. >> The duplex is on the same piece of property as your home.

>> No, it's in the same town, though. It's very >> in the same note. >> Are they they have one mortgage on the two of them?

>> Yep. >> I'm sorry.

>> Yes, they do. >> Okay. All right. So, 180 blanket mortgage across two pieces of property.

One of them is your home and one of them is the duplex. And then the inherited home has 40,000. And the 200 and something,000 in debt is what

>> is the is both our current properties,

my car, and some consumer debt.

Okay. So, it's the 180 plus the 40 is

220 >> plus a car, >> right?

>> Nope. It's around altogether 225.

>> Okay. >> For all debt. >> How much is the car?

>> The car is I'm around it's around 28,000

and I'm about 5 to 10 underwater depending. I've had it for sale since

summer of last year and it's not selling. I even have it undervalued.

>> No, you don't. Or it would have sold.

The um >> my bank told me not to sell it for for um I had it listed for 22,000 and the bank told me it's worth 24 and I'd be silly to sell it. >> Yeah, bankers don't bankers don't get to advise me on finance.

They're just where I keep money. Um the

um last thing you want to ask is a

banker about debt. That's like asking a dog if it's hungry. And so um so what is

your household income?

>> It varies. So my husband works full-time. He doesn't make much. He makes around $20 an hour. I stay at home with my baby, but I do work on weekends.

I bartend. So it it's all over the board. >> How are you paying all these bills? Our

rental income is is a big one. It does pay the mortgage and all of our escrow.

>> Um that's why we're like we don't know if we should sell because it cash flows so well.

>> How much do you guys on average would you say Randy bring home a month though?

Everything in total.

>> I would say around 4500.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. I I would sell mother's house and I would pay off your car and I would pay off your consumer debt and I would get on a detailed written budget to where you're running this like a business, not just a wish, not just like a wish. You've kind of just been throwing stuff around and hoping it worked. >> And you got to really have to get very,

very practical and very detailed and live on your income. And the two of you are going to work on your careers. y'all suck at earning money and so you need to really get some income coming into this house and um then you can work to pay

down the 180. But no, I wouldn't sell the duplex today. I would sell mom's house and clear this stupid car. And no, go buy $28,000 cars when you make $20 an hour.

>> Yeah. And hopefully they could clear what almost a hundred after. If she owes 40, it's 150. >> Yeah. And then well, you got to pay off the $28,000 car and the consumer debt, which I didn't get all the way to the bottom of that, but >> so another 10 or 15 probably there >> cuz the numbers don't add. But the uh anyway, yeah. So, you need to get very detailed on your monthly income and and

what it goes to and begin to whittle down the 180 that you do keep at the end of the story. But everything else, I would um I would sell mom's house and I would pay off your car and then get on a detailed budget, pay off all the depending on the credit cards >> and I don't think she she didn't give us her primary home total of what they owe

and the duplex all together but all together >> it was a blanket mortgage one mortgage on the two of them >> on on both of them. >> Yeah. So they've got that deal down at the credit union. >> Yeah. The banker helped them with that.

>> Yeah.

So yeah, blanket mortgages set you up for problems when you get ready to divest properties when you get ready to sell a property. uh because most of them don't have properly done release clauses, meaning that you can sell the duplex for 180 and they take the whole 180 against the debt and you get nothing cuz there's no partial release clauses >> on blanket mortgages. So there that sets you up for a problem and that's typical.

>> Is that one reason why you wouldn't sell a duplex because of that? Because it's tied into I think she's making money on it right now and they're dependent on it right now. But if we got rid of the car payment, >> now the cash starts to flow and we get on a tight budget, now the cash starts to flow and we can start to whittle it down. You might be able to keep the duplex in time.

>> Um, but I'm hoping it can. Uh, and I can't tell where this is how where this, you know, we we didn't get into every single dollar there, but yeah.

Yeah. So, um, but income is key there,

Randy. if you guys and run and after you sit down and run your numbers, I think it will give you some piece of having actual plan because everything is just feels so muddled together and you're like I don't even know like what to do here and there. And once you've laid out a plan, then you guys are able to say, okay, I need to work x amount more per week. He needs to work x amount more per week for us to clear everything in four

years, three years, you know, whatever the time frame looks like for you guys.

and to actually have a plan and then you can then you can shape your life around.

And that actually will probably give you the motivation then to actually play all

this out because when everything is just in your head and it just feels like there's no succinct order, it feels like

more like chaos.

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The Ramsay plan will hold your hand digitally while this happens. So check it out. Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Nate is in

Cleveland. Hi Nate. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. And you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, my question today is, so me and my wife uh were about $65,000 in

debt. Um, I recently left my full-time

job and started my own business because I was making significantly more. Um, my

question is, I want to get the heck out of debt. Um, and

my question is, how much should I be taking home from the business, but also leaving enough in the business to grow

it?

>> Okay. So, what is the business profiting? You said you're doing a lot better. That's awesome.

>> What's your profit? >> Uh, yes. So, my profit, I am

consistently bringing in $2500 to $2,800

a week. >> Profit or gross?

>> Profit. what I'm bringing and what I'm bringing home. Um, my gross is been

close to 5,500 to 6,500.

>> Okay. What are you doing? What kind of business? >> Um, I have a mobile mechanic business.

>> Oh, good for you. That's awesome.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. And so it costs you about $2 to

$3,000 a month to operate and you're m

Did you say a week or a month? You said a a week.

>> A week. I the past three weeks I've

brought in consistently $2,500 into my

house >> after expenses. Okay.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So So you're making like $10,000 a month. >> Um close to Yeah. >> Yeah. If you keep this pattern going anyway. All right. And uh good for you, man. You're hustling. >> Yeah. Well done. >> That's awesome. Thank you. >> And and so thank you. >> Yeah. So what do you need to put back into the business to grow it? You seem to have it operating very well already.

>> Well, part of this is I I've been

operating part-time about 16 hours a week since January. In the last 3 weeks,

um I went full-time.

>> Um but that doesn't have >> that doesn't mean you need to put money back into it. You're making more money, >> right? So, I have about um $50,000 in

tooling that I still have to get. Um and

I'm also getting to the point where um potentially in the next 2 to 3 months I could look into adding another person.

>> Okay. I'm not I'm not adding anybody right now. This is a whole three weeks old, >> right? >> So, no, we don't need to we need let's just put off talking about adding somebody. And to by tooling, you mean purchasing tools to do the job?

>> Yeah. So I >> So you already have enough tools to make $10,000 a month if you never bought another tool,

>> right? >> I guess that's correct. Yeah. Excited.

He's excited about his business. >> I I want you to be excited. I'm excited, too. But let me tell you Let me tell you what happens with guys like you and guys like me, okay? If I go in Home Depot, I

discover things I need, >> right? >> That I don't even know what they do, but I need one of them. And so what happens in your world is you can tool yourself all the way through your profit,

>> right? >> And the Matco guy is making all your money then.

>> Yeah. >> Been down that road and getting out of that road. >> Exactly. So or whoever whoever's pitching you the tool. So you need to be very careful. Tools are not fun. Tools

are overhead.

>> Overhead is evil >> in business. >> And so you don't buy a stinking wrench

unless that wrench is going to make you more than it costs you within the next two or three weeks.

>> Well, the reason why I'm talking about tooling is specifically like there are jobs that I'm currently not able to do.

So what? I make okay, >> you're making $10,000 a month

after three whole weeks in business.

I mean, you can get it's okay to add some of those jobs, but I don't know when you're going to do them, >> right? >> That would be >> But he's saying they pay more, right?

So, one job could be two grand and then if you had this tool, I don't know what, double, I don't know, or whatever.

Whatever it is for you. >> Yeah. Only if you by yourself can make more money because you bought the tool, >> not because you can get jobs.

>> Yeah. >> The tool has to make you more money.

>> Cuz we get caught up in this thing of I could, you know, I'm turning down work.

No, you're not. You're busy already 15 hours a day, >> right? Unless you can make double the hourly rate because of the tool. The tool has zero value to you right now because logistically you booked up.

>> Gotcha. So, I'm doing accounting now is what I'm doing. I'm not working on cars.

I'm doing accounting with you. So, if you're averaging $10,000 a month with the hours you have, unless you can average an extra $5,000, don't spend

$2,000 on the tool.

>> Gotcha. >> Because it doesn't it didn't cause your income to go up. It just meant you could go to a different kind of a job than you're doing right now. Whoopy dupty.

Now, when we get ready to hire somebody 6 months from now and you've actually

got some downtime that you need to fill up some available hours in the day and the tool adds those jobs. Now, that tool

is going to ROI quickly and you're going to buy that one.

>> Gotcha. >> But your goal is not to end up with a trailer full of tools. Your goal is end up with a pile of money.

>> Yeah. >> That's what the tools are for. and that that I get like I'm sitting in a studio right now. It's a different world, but it's the same kind of principle. Okay, when it comes to uh computers and electronics and cameras, my friends in the engineering department that work for me in Ramsey have no end to their appetite.

They will buy $2 million worth of crap that that this crap sitting here would already do. >> And I have to go, no, we're not doing that. But then also >> but then also it's Dave you're going to look prettier. I'm like not that much prettier and probably not.

It's just probably going to show off my ugly a little better but that's all. But I mean this is this is the the world you can get into where the >> you're not careful increase in equipment minimal functional. >> Yeah. Okay.

So where was where's the balance of putting money back into the business? >> Only put money back >> versus I know versus paying off the 65,000 that he has in his consumer like in his household debt. I don't I don't think he's going to have a trouble with this because I think he needs to take most of it home right now >> and pay it off.

>> Now, if you're not fully booked and you can buy a tool that causes you to be fully booked, then you put that money back in. But that's a that's not $50,000

worth of tooling. >> That's uh which was his original quote.

And I'm all the way down to about 2,000 now. And so, um, but $2,000 at at a

time. Then when you add somebody and you've got available logistic hours. Now we can grow the scope of the business, the size of the business with the tooling. So now we're going to tool up a little bit with cash, but you still got plenty of money, making more money than you've ever made in your whole life. It's awesome because you ain't afraid of work and you're out there doing it, man.

And you know how to do it. This is I got a feeling you're going to this business when we talk to you in 3 years is going to be you have six trucks running and >> if you're not careful cuz also

I would say him I would say you certain personalities you do get excited and then you get up over your skis and you're like that and that's where well I could borrow on this truck I could do I could do that. You know what I mean? And you start to right but you it can start to expand so quickly and so >> but let let's pretend >> there's a level of stability that's good. Let's pretend he was making 5,000 before he quit his job and now he's making 10 and he got $65,000 in debt.

He's debtree in a year. >> Mhm. >> Easy. >> Yep. >> Easy. And uh so, you know, just just

figure out your math that way. And then what we have done at Ramsey, I've organically grown this from a card table in my living room to where we're sitting now. And organically mean I took profit

from the company and I bought tools. I I hired people. I used some of the I didn't take the money home. I put it back in here. But in every case, those things have to give me a return on investment. Otherwise, we're going backward. And backward ain't the plan.

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>> Mary is in Charleston. Hi Mary. How are you?

Good Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah, I have a just a mine's probably pretty simple there. I have a question

as far as our mortgage and paying it off. So, we owe 110,000 on our house.

It's worth about 400,000

and we pay $5,800 a month right now. Our mortgage is only almost 1,500, but we've been paying extra.

>> And in doing that, our payoff, if we pay

it off in we have 23 months and we'll

have it paid off. But if we chose to pay it off in 12 months at $5,800,

then we would have to take some money out of our high yield savings to cate to

to finish paying it off. and and we have

about 70,000 in high yield savings right now. And I've proposed that we take out

after 12 months, continue paying the 5,800 for 12 months and then take out

55,000 out of our savings is what we would have I believe that we would have to pull out and leave about 15,000 in there at that time and pay the house off. So I just want to

>> So the difference the difference >> seems like a wise thing to do. >> Yeah. So the difference is um 12 months

with your plan or the original plan is

23 months.

>> Right. Right. >> So the argument is 11 months difference.

>> Mhm. >> And how old are you guys?

>> I'm 56 and my husband's 60.

>> And how long you been married?

for 11 years. >> Okay. And how much do you guys have in your nest egg? Your retirement nest egg.

>> In in retirement, we almost have a we have almost close to 200,000 in 403b.

We've quit putting so much into it while we've decided to pay this 5,800 a month

rather than the 1,500 the almost 1,500.

We cut back and only >> Yeah. And your your household income is what?

>> 160,000.

>> Okay. All right. Um so let's just back

up and say both plans are in the smart column.

>> Okay. >> There's no you're so stupid I can't breathe check mark on this one. Okay. I

mean you both of these are very wise.

This is an argument between um you know minutia. Okay. And so

neither one of you said he he wants to do it the other way. You want to pay it off early, but he's worried about having not as much emergency fund. Is that am I reading the wrong the between the lines?

>> Yeah. And I told him I I watched your show one day and I said I think he said get uncomfortable for a while and that's when I came up with the plan of I even suggested we leave a thousand in there and he's like no I'm not that.

>> No, no, no, no. That's not that's not our plan. Our plan is baby steps four through six, >> four through seven, you you leave your fully funded emergency fund in place.

And I think 15,000's a little tight.

I I'll kind of come down on his side there. So maybe between the two of you is the answer because I also think 70 is a little high.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. How much are your expenses every month, Mary?

>> You know, not much really. We were bringing home about 8,200

a month. And like I say, we're able to pay 6,000 >> on our and live within means and not take out a high yield savings or anything like that. So our expenses aren't we don't we're out of debt.

>> So if you went in the middle and just said if we lost all income, right, and we had four months four months worth, right, that's 32,000.

>> So maybe you do throw, you know what I mean? Some at it. Um, but you guys are

reasonable in the 3 to 6 month emergency fund, right? Four to five month.

>> Yeah, you're you're in good shape. The 70 is high. The 15's probably a little low. >> And so, here's a fun game if you want to play it. uh do the 5800

for 12 months and then keep doing it every month until

you look up and the balance in the out

and the high you can pull enough out of the high yield. Wait a minute. That I don't like that game all of a sudden cuz the high yield's not paying you what your mortgage is. What's your mortgage interest rate?

>> It's high. It's 6.875.

>> And the more and your high yield's not by three, right?

>> Yeah, it's just over three. So, I want to go I want to go and pull some of the high yield now.

>> Um, >> yeah. Why don't we uh uh see 15? You you

he says none and you said 50.

>> I'd go I'd go 35. Yeah. Split the difference. Split the difference. >> That leaves you guys again with a four to five month emergency fund. And with what you're going to save in the mortgage once it is paid off, you can have it bumped back up in six months, you know. >> And then you can also play my game.

Okay. So, you put 35 on it today. you pay 5,800 on it. And if you look up and

he's okay with one month pulling another 10,000 out and knocking it off and that's the last 10,000. You could every month look at it and go how if we paid it off this month that would leave us this this amount. We paid off this month how it would leave us this amount and and both of you sit down and look at it and and be be laughing and giggling while you're doing it. Not wagging your finger. >> Okay. It's like this is fun.

>> Okay. Are we going to pay it off this month? Are we going to pay it off next month? >> Keep the levity.

Yeah. Are we going to pay it off this month or next month or the next month? And then you, you know, he's going to look up one of those times and surprise you and go a little further, you know, go on down to 20,000 balance or $25,000 balance. >> Now, Mary, I would want you guys investing in retirement though.

I mean, if you are following the baby steps, you guys need to be investing 15%.

Because you said you pulled back some >> and putting none in. >> We pulled back. We were doing >> completely. You've pulled back completely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You got We still We're still investing 4%. We were at 15. You need to

go back to 15. >> Yeah. >> Go back to 15. >> Even. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would advise to cut back while we're paying the house off because >> our mortgage is so high. 6 point our interest rate because of the mortgage is so high. >> Yeah. But the interest the the rate of return on mutual funds in a good retirement account is higher than your mortgage.

>> Okay. >> So, whoever advised you that your age right now, I mean, like, you know what I mean? I think it would be a little bit of a moo point though if it you know but if you're in your early 30s doing this but they're in their I mean he's going to turn 60 so I'm like I want >> you want some in that >> more than 200 >> to be able to to retire >> cuz that's that is the balance about the the paid off home like where we are all about yes getting to that point which is our baby step you know baby step six but but it does no good if you have a paid off house and you have no money >> exactly not enough >> so like you do you do want Okay.

So, what what we teach Mary to follow our plan exactly would be to start putting 15% of your household income, that's another 10% more than you're doing now, into retirement.

um you know, 3 to 6 months, which would be 25,000. Okay? And so, I'm going to put 45,000 onto the house. Uh I'm going

to start putting 15% of my income away for retirement. And then I'm going to figure out how much I can put towards the house while putting 15% into retirement. Won't be 5,800 anymore. Yep.

It'll >> It's gonna be more like It's going to be more like whatever 5200 or whatever. And

you're still going to be out in 23 months. >> That's right. And um and you will have been all along putting money into retirement and all along had a sufficient 3 to six months of expenses retirement plan and all along all your extra money then is going towards the house. And so that's what we teach the baby steps four, five and six are simultaneous.

Four is 15% of your income into retirement. Five is kids college not relevant in this discussion. and six is everything extra goes towards the house and the expense and and no more should be in savings not non-retirement savings like high yield than three to six months and we're going to call that >> 30 25,000 right now and call it a day between >> that's what we actually teach if you're going to work our plan exactly that's what we would do and the truth is you'll end up with more money working that than either of the plans we discussed for the last eight minutes but it was fun discussing it >> and either way Mary you're going to look up in two years and your life's going to be great.

You're going to be doing good. >> None of these options are in the stupid column. >> Yeah. >> None of them. >> And well done, Mary. I mean, to get to this point, that's that's a lot of hard work. So, you and your husband both. It's amazing. >> Good, healthy discussion between someone who's debt averse and someone who wants a pile of savings. Husband and wife.

Love this discussion and the fact that they're having the discussion and uh and it's a it's a healthy argument. I like it.

Chris is in Boston. Hey Chris, what's up in your world?

>> Hey guys, thanks for uh taking my call.

I'm big big fan of y'all. >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

So, I wanted to ask um the basic question of did my fiance and I make a poor decision on the house we just bought. And I was hopeful to to kind of

briefly go over my plan going forward and see if it aligns with y'all's advice um slash what what you might suggest I do differently. >> Okay. What do you what do you what did you do on the house? Tell me about it.

So, the house was a $670,000

house and we did 10% down. Um, and so

our monthly payment is $4,700.

>> Mhm.

>> And you what do you make?

So I I have a salary of 120,000 per year

and my fiance has a salary of 70,000 per year. The big variable in that is that I

work in sales and I get a bonus every quarter. That can can vary. Um

typically, um it can three of the quarters will vary between 10 and $40,000 and then one quarter will vary between 30 all the way up to maybe $100,000.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Well, the the what we recommend

for married people is that your house that your payment should not be more than 1/4 of your take-home pay and you should be well under that with the numbers you gave me.

>> So, that's what I was So, with the

outside of the bonuses, um if you remove the bonuses, our our take-home pay is

roughly $11,540 per month. Yeah, but we don't we're we're not removing the bonuses cuz they're there.

>> Um even on the small end, they

maybe around 60,000 per year at the

small end. That would still fall.

>> It still puts you It still puts you at a fourth of your take-home pay.

Um, I guess our our main question was, you know, did we overindulge? Because it it did drain pretty much all of our

savings to to get to it. Now, I I did invest um and and the way I did it was

before listening to y'all's show and and learning your take on it, um I invested

in real estate before I was paid off fully on. So, we do have some debt that I wanted to go over as well. And um so I but I long story short, I invested in real estate prior to paying off all of our debt and not only and including um

only having 10% down on our primary residence worried me a little bit. And I I know that that's not >> it's not best. And no, I would not be investing in real estate before you bought a house. And no, I would not be buying a house if you didn't uh if you weren't debtree. But you already did. So now let's get out of debt. Why don't you sell the rental and pay off the debts?

>> That was going to be one of my questions. We've only owned it for about a year and a few months. Um, my thought

was selling the rental before it appreciating to its full value would >> it's not going to appreciate to its full value. At what date? When does it stop

appreciating?

>> Yeah. No, I I I I understand that. Yeah, >> there's no end to that question, >> but you just feel like the quick turn after you pay commissions and everything. >> All you're doing is admitting your mistake and that's the problem.

>> When do you guys get But if you sold But if you sold the property, Chris, I mean, if he only had it for a year, it probably doesn't have much equity in it. So, >> which means it sucks >> like it because it should have some equity. >> No, it's it's draining him. He's not making any money on it, >> right?

>> Unless you got Unless you got a bunch of equity, you're not making money. >> Yeah.

we do have very stable monthly income on

it we're not we aren't cash flowing yet it break even and I agree with you I I agree it's it's useless >> you're you're you're spinning your wheels You're you're breaking even at best on the monthly cash flow. By the time you include vacancy repairs and crap owning rental property, you have to make a lot more than you're making to break even. You are not breaking even.

Not net net over a 12 to an 18month period of time. When you look back on it, that's what's going to h I've owned $600 million worth of real estate. Believe me, that you have to have more margin than you've got to break even.

Now, so I would get out of that. That's what I would do. And then all of a sudden, your house starts looking smarter. And I would, you know, use anything I can do to clear up. What other personal debts have you guys got?

>> I have 20,000 student loans, 9,000 car.

She has 20,000 roughly student loans.

>> Yeah. And you guys make a pile of money.

So, clean that mess up. Yeah. Yeah. See, if you don't have if you don't have this rental property hanging over your head like a hatchet and you don't have this any personal debt at all, all of a sudden, we're not sweating the house.

>> Yeah. But I do hear you, Chris, with when the bonuses come depending on the month, right? That the instability is Yeah. on the low end. You said if you bring home 11,000, right, and 5,000

almost of it being taken by the mortgage on that one particular month, you need to have a fund. We call it the the peaks and valleys fund. So, when the bonuses do come in, throw some of it in that fund. So, when there is a low month, you can pull from that fund and that the house, you know, is fine, that it is around a fourth year take-home pay. If you didn't have any car payments, so you wouldn't be noticing it.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, my my plan going forward was to try and save three months reserves and then get to 20% equity in the house. So, you would add step one to that be sell the condo.

>> I would sell the condo. I'd get debtree.

I'd build my emergency fund. Baby steps.

Do >> you guys have any cash saved, Chris?

>> So, we we really did pretty much get >> put everything there. Very low. Um, but in a few days. When's the wedding?

>> I get >> um in October. I we are very lucky that

we do have family help for that. We did put a small portion of our our money already into it. >> Um but that that wasn't a big factor. Um

but I I should be in in a few days I'll be getting another one of those quarterly bonuses that will at least replenish some of that that >> So the advice I gave you is what you do from today forward. Okay. Had you called

me a year ago, here's what I would have

told you. For the rest of you guys out there, not to shame Chris, but for the rest of you guys out there, don't buy a home until you're married. Number one.

Number two, don't buy a home unless you're out of debt.

Period. Don't buy a home unless you're out of debt and have 3 to 6 months of expenses plus a down payment. And then

don't buy a home where the payment on a 15-year fixed is more than a half or

more than a quarter of your take-home pay. And don't buy rental property

unless you pay cash for it, which is way after all those other don't things that I just covered. So, if you had done that, you would now have you'd be planning a wedding with a pile of money sitting there and no debt, and you'd have no rental property and no house. >> And you'd be looking at October going, I'm sure ready for it to come. And then the following spring after your marriage, after renting an apartment for 6 months, I would talk about buying a home.

By then, you'd have a great down payment and you'd have no debt and you'd have an emergency fund, too.

>> And when you buy a home with someone you aren't married to, you are extremely

vulnerable, >> both of you. It is legal and financial

suicide to do this. They're probably going to get away with it because it's probably going to work out. They're probably they have a wedding date. >> They have a wedding call and they're like, "We're not sure." >> I mean, Saturday works for me. Um, but

the uh as a wedding date, but the uh you know cuz she I mean if something happens with this relationship and everything's already exactly tied

down and tight and and and so we're stressing this relationship right now and if anything, God forbid happens,

y'all are going to find out what screwed looks like. It's going to be a mess. So,

I'm but I'm hoping that for y'all it just sails right on through to October and you can just execute the plan we talked about and we're going to start selling stuff and we're going to get this mess cleaned up. But that's what I not again not to shame him but all you know you guys got to quit buying houses aren't married yet. It's really the the nightmare stories that come into this show. >> Buy houses together when you're not married. Yes. >> Both your names on it. It's just you

the stuff that can happen is all bad and not good. So yeah, please don't do this.

Again, Chris, we're hoping you for you that this all works out. We're not trying to beat you up, but you called and asked, so we're going to tell you.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Matthew's in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Matthew. How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, I'm just wondering how to, you know, attack this mess that I'm in, basically.

Um, yeah, kind of figure out where to start.

What what's going on, Matthew?

>> Um, well, I have a total of $48,9049

of total debts. Um,

I have some goals for myself I want in

the next year or so, but I want to climb out all this before I can start doing those. >> What are those goals?

>> Um, I want to be able to buy a house. Um the house payment is kind of an

interesting situation, family situation sort of. Um so I have really great

parents who basically are giving me 300,000 for a

house and I want to be able to be secure

and able to be able to buy a home, but I want to get out of all this debt I have before I do any of that.

What do you make?

>> Um, so I make 77, my wife makes about

55. >> Okay, very good.

All right. Uh, okay. And

so how much debt the 48,000? What's the breakdown on that?

>> Um, it's 19,35 in students student loans for my wife.

>> Mhm. Um 12,639 for one car and 11,145 for another car. >> Gotcha. Okay.

>> And then 1545 on one credit card and 3139 on

another. >> Okay. All right. So, when the two of you sit down at the kitchen table with the television off and you put these numbers in front of you, what do they tell you?

Um, they've probably been living above our means. That's what it tells me.

>> Mhm. Okay. But what they tell me is, I

mean, you make $125,000 a year. Um, you

have $48,000 in debt. I think you can attack this debt fairly rapidly.

The $300,000, is this a cash gift from your parents?

>> Yes. >> And where are you living now?

Um, I'm living outside of Portland.

>> No, I mean, are you living in a rental? >> I'm renting. I'm renting. Yeah, I'm renting. >> Okay. And how much is your monthly rent?

>> 1470. >> Okay. And you're outside of Portland, Oregon, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. What will $300,000 buy outside of

Portland, Oregon?

>> Um, it won't outright buy anything.

>> Oh, yes, it will. Um,

I mean it would get close for sure.

>> It won't buy something you like, but it'll buy something.

>> It will buy something. Sure. Yeah. >> Okay. That's what I asked. What will it buy?

>> Um, small piece of property.

Probably need some fixing up at that price. It's not too uh cheap up here,

unfortunately.

Mhm. No, I mean that would be reasonable because the the median household median

house price in all of America and Portland's much more expensive than most of America. >> Uh but the median house price is 400 uh right now 400 and something thousand.

>> In the Midwest it's I can't see that you're flipping it. But anyway, the uh

it's like >> 6 615 in the West.

>> In the West, but that includes California.

That includes Portland, too.

>> Okay. Anyway, that's the median. So, you would be But bottom line is you're going to be substantially lower than median.

How old are you two?

>> I'm 29. My wife's 30.

>> Mhm.

Okay.

All right. So, >> it may not buy an outright house though in port like outside of Portland.

>> Yeah, it will. Yeah, it will. It's just not a house he wants. Yeah, it definitely will. I mean, it 100% will

buy one, but I'm not sure that you want to live in it. I want to live in or he wants to live in it. >> Okay, that's fair. >> I'm not saying it won't buy I'm not going to say it won't buy a house. It definitely you can find a property 100%

chance for 300 grand.

>> I'm not saying none of us are going to like it, but we can find one. Okay.

>> Okay. Now that we've gotten that established for real. >> Well, I mean, I'm I'm >> still considering it even if I don't like it.

>> So, one thing that's interesting about this money is my folks want it split in

a certain way. They want a um a a title titled a certain way when

we do it. >> No, I'll pass.

>> Wait, wait. Stop. Stop. >> Some issues. >> Why? >> Um attendance in common title is what they would want.

>> I don't know what that is. I'm sorry. Say it. >> Why? >> It's attendance and common title.

>> I know why. >> I would think >> with them. >> Why? Um >> so they could have it if something happened to you?

>> No, between her and I. >> Between your wife. They don't like your wife. >> Oh, no.

>> I'll pass. >> So, I mean, they've they've done this for all five of us. Um, they have five

siblings, and their idea is that, not

that they think anything's going to happen, but if it was, you know, this is their nest egg. they've worked for a long time to keep and have and giving it

to us. They if something was to happen between us, they wouldn't want some of that going towards, you know,

>> yeah, >> in a divorce or something. >> I'm sorry. I completely disagree with them and I would turn that gift down

>> if it requires that. Yeah. >> If that if that's if that's a if the gift is contingent upon you splitting you and your wife and to protect you from your wife and protect them from your wife, no thank you. They are now interfering in my household. They came across my threshold. No thank you. I'll

have to pass. >> And then >> I would not do that to Rachel and Winston in a thousand years. And if I

did, Winston would bow up and he would be right. >> Well, if that happened to me, I feel like I'd be pissed. Like, y'all, we just got married. Like, >> I don't know. I don't like it.

>> Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. I have is I have about 47,000 invested, >> okay, >> in a brokerage account and I just really want to get >> If I were you, I would just start working my way out of debt. Work your work your baby steps. You guys need the two of you need to get on a budget together and you need to be on beans and rice, rice and beans, and let's start paying off these $48,000 worth of debt with your $125,000 and then start saving towards a house. But I you're you're

gonna you're gonna do it unless your wife bows up and she should but um but

you guys are probably gonna do this but you shouldn't do it. This is bad

medicine. >> Well, it's just bad relational the whole relational side. >> Yeah. It's it's not it's not good. You're you're insulting you're inserting spiritual things into this that shouldn't be there. These are this is bad. Yeah. And sorry mom and dad, you

don't get that level of control. Well, if you want my money, you have to do it that way. Okay, I'll pass on your money then. I'm not You're not driving a wedge between me and my wife. Not a chance.

You don't have You don't have enough money to do that. And so, because you

don't have enough money to be generous.

Instead, you're still got your fingers and everything and you can't let go.

Control people.

No. And all my siblings did it. No. I'm sorry. Hey, you get to be the first one to say, "Well, all the siblings didn't do it." I didn't. There you go.

>> Oh, man.

Hey. George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming.

Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly.

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That's ramiesolutions.com/realestate.

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Might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Allison in Alaska. I recently discovered my husband has been opening credit cards, maxing them out, and only making the minimum payments each month. Should I put my home into a trust to ensure it cannot be touched by his decisions? All of our assets are in my name since I own them

before because I owned them before we met and we both agreed that they need to be protected for my ch children to inherit. I fully understand the bigger issue of him hiding debt, but first I need to take steps to fully protect my children's future before addressing the elephant in the room.

Oh man, would a trust

protect the home?

>> Um, it I don't know Alaska law. Um

in um most states if you enter a

marriage owning a piece of real estate, you will exit that marriage owning that same piece of real estate. Um now then

the question becomes if he takes out a bunch of debt, can they put a lean on

>> the house that he that she owns because he's married to her? And in some states they can. So in some states they could lean in the event it's an unpaid credit card debt for instance could become a lawsuit that would become a judgment against any real estate and his marital rights to that real estate in some states would be it would cloud the title for her children and putting it in a trust probably won't change that. You'd have to ask an attorney about all that.

Um, here's the thing. When we're talking

about in when I'm teaching leaders in small business, and we coach in Entree Leadership, we coach about 10,000 small businesses. And when I'm teaching, for

instance, uh, business legal issues from

a business perspective more than a legal perspective. I remind those guys that

contracts are useless when you are

contracting with a crook.

Uh you can't you can't sign a contract with a crook and then yell later, I have a contract because it's not worth the paper it's written on. You've heard that saying. And the reason is is you just did a deal with someone who doesn't have integrity.

And so you could put the house in a trust and according to Alaskan law that could protect it. That's possible. Uh

but then he could just decide to sue you

in divorce court uh because you fraudulently did the trust without his permission.

Even though you didn't, >> he could just make that crap up. And you can make up crap in a lawsuit in any state >> and just file a lawsuit and just make up crap. It's called pleadings. Okay? And and so what you do is just make up crap and file a lawsuit. And the only recompense the other party has is to spend thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars to disprove the lie that was in the pleading >> and that'll be coming out of her pocket.

>> By the way, that's going to cost you the house in legal fees >> to defend against a crook.

>> So, the problem is you can't anticipate the moves of a crook except that they're going to be a crook. That we can establish. And now I'm talking about your husband. And so you can't um fix

this problem with a legal document ultimately. You might make it somewhat safer, but you'll be under the illusion that it's done. And it's not done until the crook quits crooing, until the husband quits being a jerk and hiding and spending like he's in freaking Congress and running up credit card debt. So you have to deal with the

problem. the elephant in the room is gonna crap on whatever you try.

So, you got to deal with the elephant because a 100% chance you're gonna have elephant crap if you don't. There's a 100% chance and it no matter what you do, it's going to have poop on it. So, I mean, you really have to deal with it.

So, you got to go all you there's no legal maneuver that makes this guy not

be a problem except divorce. and he's not a pro and

he's still a problem until the divorce is final. And and I'm not suggesting divorce, but I am suggesting that

>> you could go do everything exactly right according to Alaska law and he could make up a big story and file a lawsuit

and you will spend the cost of the house defending it. That's my point. Can you

tell that's happened to me? Yeah. And so, I mean, people make up crap. Okay.

They just lie. And the course system allows them to get away with it.

>> Yeah. So for you Allison, I mean honestly, >> yes, if you wanted to go and do it to make yourself feel better, that's great.

But the pro but the elephant is in the room just like you're saying Dave is the thing that it does. It has to be >> call the zoo.

>> Tell them to come get their elephant. He's lost. Yeah.

>> Oh my gosh. Yeah.

>> It's really sad. I mean, >> it's horrible that you're facing this, but you're trying to fix the problem without fixing the problem, and you can't. You're going to have to fix the problem. >> You got to deal with the dude.

>> The dude is the problem, not the not your legal structure. >> It's going to be Yeah. >> So, you can't get >> a lot to unpack. Sorry, Alison.

>> Yeah. So, an example of that is, okay, you do a will and you do a full estate plan. That doesn't keep someone from suing. Mhm.

>> It it they might not win >> by the time you finish hard for them to win, >> but it be very hard for them to win. You can put a very detailed thing in place, but you but by the time you finish writing checks to lawyers so they can send their kids to Harvard, >> um by the time you finish writing all those checks, you ain't going to feel like you won, although you won. And so

you're still deal you're you're still dealing with, you know, entitled little trust fund baby brats who didn't get what they wanted and so they sue the estate. A and so the problem was not how the estate was structured. The problem was you raised entitled trust fund baby brats and so you you suck as a parent.

That's what that was. And and so you got to go back and deal with the issue because the legal system does not there's not legal processes or systems that protect the righteous from being

sued or from having to run up legal fees to offset. >> Yeah. But a will and I mean that stuff holds up in court for people out there to get a will in place and it does you need to get a will and it will hold up in court. But if you have crazy if you have crazy in your family, >> you might spend $100,000 making sure that will is upheld.

you might spend $100,000. >> Don't do it.

>> So, yeah, do it anyway. It's your only shot, but don't do that and say, "This fixes the crazy in my family." Because you still hadn't dealt with the crazy.

>> That's the problem. You got to go to the root behavior when you're dealing with this. And so, when I'm teaching these small business guys, I'm like, "Don't sign a contract with a crook. Here's an idea. If he's a known crook, the guy's doing cocaine. I'm kind of worried about him." Well, then quit using him as a sub. Hello. No kidding. He's going to

steal everything off your job site, dumb butt of He's doing coke. Hello, have

some sense. You know, this is the stuff I get all these questions on entre leadership all the time. It's the same thing. So, you got to fire the sub.

>> That's a lot of cocaine. >> You got to get rid of it.

>> Well, we got this is a great segment. We got elephant poop. We got cocaine. We got elephants in the room. >> Lord have mercy. >> This There's so There's so many metaphors here. There's Now there's an Now there's an elephant on cocaine.

All because of Allison's question.

>> Oh, poor Allison. >> Question of the day. >> Poor Allison.

Uh, so yeah, you got to deal with the husband. The husband. >> Mhm. >> Wow. If we could, you know what? We'd be out of business if the husbands would behave.

This We wouldn't have any callers.

>> Money and marriage. That's a real >> We wouldn't have any callers. >> It's a real thing. >> Yeah. We'd have people We' We'd be reduced to boring 401k questions.

>> All tax and estate.

>> Yeah. Tax and estate law. That's all we'd be doing. and 401k. How do I invest in my 401k? That this is so much more fun. We've got elephants and cocaine and gosh, just a lot more stuff in this question. It's a lot better.

Hey,

hey, hey.

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Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. If you have a money question and you can't get through, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free

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proven Ramsay principles. So if you want

to follow the baby steps and you want to know the details about any type of question, we've loaded three or four years worth of shows answered into Ask Ramsey. We've loaded the books and articles into Ask Ramsey. And so it's going to sound particularly like one of us here on the show actually answered your question and no other crap was led into the database. And so you don't have to worry about the artificial intelligence part being screwed up.

Nope, it's just us and it'll give you the same answer. So ask your question today. It's completely free at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube and you can ask

Ramsay for free. John's in Boisee,

Idaho. Hey John, what's up?

>> Dave, thanks for taking my call. and Rachel. Um, I tried using Ask Ramsey on

this one, but it didn't come back with an answer. >> Really? What did it tell you?

>> Plenty of issues. Well, it said unable to answer this question at this time.

>> Interesting. >> Um, >> okay. I can't wait to hear the question. >> It might it might have been the topic, but uh it's it's pretty simple. Um, I've got plenty of debt. got a lot of issues.

But specifically, I know you guys tell uh council not to do debt consolidation,

but you also uh

tell us to be very wary and try to get rid of our IRS debt as quickly as possible. So, I owe about 20,000 to the

IRS and wondering if I should consolidate that or transfer that over to another lender and have the IRS paid

off and I just deal with that lender.

>> Yes.

Okay, >> the interest rate will be better and and they have nowhere near the power to screw up your life that the KGB, I mean the IRS has.

And so, um, the the the what you're paying in penalties and interest with the IRS far exceeds a credit card rate, far exceeds a home equity loan rate, far exceeds anything else. And, uh, I'm not suggesting this, but the IRS is not bankruptible, and all other debt just about is.

>> Mhm. So, if you got if you did hit a worst case scenario, even it turns out better, but you're not going to be there. That's not your going to be your problem. But, um, yeah, I would move it.

Uh, how much total debt have you got?

>> Oh, boy. Here we go.

>> You want the house, too? >> No. Everything but the house.

>> Okay. 315,000 >> on what?

>> Um, let's see. We've got 192 in uh one

school on Let's see. Let me do that real quick. We've actually probably got about 220 in school loans. My wife uh was a is an

attorney. >> Okay. >> And um and she graduated recently,

although we're in our 50s.

>> Great. Um >> so she she making lawyer money yet?

>> She is making um government service

lawyer money. >> Why didn't she take like a real lawyer job and get this debt paid off? um because she's got this bleeding heart.

Um she's she's looking to make a change soon. >> Okay. >> And and so we're we're hoping for a good change in the positive there.

>> Good. >> Um >> All right. That's that's sweet. But also keep you broke. Okay. And um >> 30 30 on >> 35,000 is in a for 35,000 in a 401k loan

>> um that I'm paying back. That's 10% interest paid back to myself. Mhm.

>> Um, Lending Club, we consolidated some

other loans. Uh, that's about 15 grand.

>> Mhm. >> Um, my student loan is 13 grand. Um, and

then we've got other consumer debt.

>> Together, we make we bring home about

10,000 a month.

>> What is she being paid?

Uh, she is getting paid 80 now. She just

got a raise to 90 and I'm getting paid 100, but I'm I see only about

4,200 uh a month after I have everything

taken out. So, >> what is >> out of my paycheck comes in my 401k maxed out on um you know, maxed out on benefits and everything. Now, this this coming paycheck, this Friday, is going to be my first paycheck without putting $1,200 a month into my 401k.

>> Okay.

Bring it toward the debt. >> Are some of the benefits ripoff stuff that you need to get out of?

>> Um, I don't know. I haven't I haven't delved closely into that.

>> Yeah, because you're not getting home with half your money even.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

>> That's kind of crazy. Yeah. So, I want to find I want to let's clean that paycheck up so we can address this thing and then of course get her income up so we can address this thing and get this mess cleaned up. Yeah. Good. Oh, yeah.

But yes, to answer your original question, um, and that question I don't remember answering it in the last 5 years. >> So, I I have answered it, but I don't remember recently answering what whether I would refinance IRS debt. So, it would not have been in Ask Ramsey. So, now it makes sense why it didn't answer it.

um because it wouldn't it wouldn't have had the data to do it with. So, uh but anyway, yeah, that's the answer is yes, refinance IRS debt um because it's better interest rates, you don't have the penalties and they don't have the power to, you know, suddenly come start leaning accounts and everything else.

They don't have to ask a judge. Mhm.

>> If you have a loan with your bank, they have to sue you when and then ask a judge to place a lean.

It's a five-step process. And you're going to get like tons of paperwork at your front door by the sheriff before that any of that happens. With the IRS, they won't even tell you. There'll just be money disappearing out of your checking account.

You won't know what happened. >> Uh because they have almost unlimited power. Not that often, but I have had it happen. The clients, and I had it happen to me when I was going broke.

>> They just came in and just took money, and I'm like, "Where's my money?" We just took it. You can do that. We could do whatever we want.

very afraid of your government. Yes. So, yeah, it's, uh, especially if you owe them money. Yeah, that's that's the thing. So, yeah, get get them out of your life. And that's a

5% of your situation, though, John. 95%

is getting organized and starting to squeeze the juice out of everything here to be able to clean this mess up as fast as possible and uh and get yourself where you're not broke and you're very wealthy and then your wife can do pro boner work the rest of her life if she wants to help the hurting and not charge or something. That's cool. That's wonderful if you want to do that. You just can't be broken doing that with 300,000 $220,000 in student loan debt.

So you kind of lose your options for your heart to bleed when you do that.

Yep. >> But um >> and I just got I just did ask Ramsey because I was curious because we've we've answered that recently. >> You have? Okay. So, what did it say?

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. I mean, did it give you an answer? >> Yeah. And it just you have to >> which is great about it. You could type, you know, it's asking me, do I have a $1,000 starter emergency fund? Takes you through the baby steps and you get to it. >> Made you jump some hoops. >> Yep. And then the installment agreement.

Yep. >> Offer and compromise currently non-collectible. Yeah. Goes on and on, but it's good. >> All right. There's plenty in there. Oh.

Oh, okay. >> May have just been a fluke >> at the time. >> Yeah, might have been. Might have been, >> but but more often than not, but we do I mean I feel like we've gotten that question um a good bit with the IRS debt. And the

answer is to anyone out there if you have a large amount enough that you have to be put on a payment plan that you can't pay off in 30 to 60 days.

>> Yeah. The IRS is not an installment plan company. >> No. Yep. This is not um CLA.

>> Yeah. >> Afterpay. Don't do after pay.

>> Don't do after pay with your tie with the IRS. Yeah. You want you want to clear it up as fast as possible because they got power. Well, I'm glad to know Ask Ramsey is doing that. That's good.

After I just did an ad for it. I know.

And he said the guy comes doesn't work.

Yeah. >> Doesn't work. Well, good news is it worked for Rachel. Okay. So, >> so that's uh there we go.

>> Yeah. John, but I hope I really do hope for you guys that y'all can get into a high income situation, knock this debt out, and then you can yeah, spend the rest of your life with that degree that she has and use it, you know, for good

and and where she wants to. Um, to have the freedom to do that, it's just hard to have that freedom when you have $300,000 of consumer debt.

>> Yeah.

Hey, George Camel here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what?

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Our

scripture of the day, Matthew 11:29.

Take my yoke upon you, let me teach you

because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Jim Ran said, "Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune." Scott's in Twin Falls, Idaho. Hey, Scott. What's up?

Hey guys. Um, been following you guys on my Facebook uh, videos for a long time.

So, good to jump in. >> Well, thank you. Good to have you.

>> Hey, uh, I'm engaged. Um, >> hey, >> when you getting married? >> Super, super excited. End of no or sorry, September. End of September coming up. >> Yay. Good for you.

>> Thank you. Uh, so listen, uh, my fiance owns a house. Um, she's got three kids.

Uh, the house is the house where the

divorce went down, all the, you know,

the bad stuff, I guess, that led us here. Um, and so we are now trying to

make a decision on what to do with this house. Uh, and the realtor is recommending a short sale. Um, I don't love that idea, but I'm just I guess trying to decide whether to take this financial hit now for kind of a clean break, a fresh start, uh, or preserve cash, stay put here temporarily while we stabilize, even though that will delay sort of this, I guess, breaking free of of that baggage. So, anyway, would love some in. >> So, she owes more on the house than she can get for it.

>> Uh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh it look anywhere from 25 to 40ish is what the realtor is recommending or >> and the house is obviously in her name.

>> Yes. >> And um does it have the X on it?

>> Um I believe that the X is on it. The X

uh has got medical issues um out of a

job right now. We're basically cons not considering him as >> No, he does he have to sign to sell it?

Uh yeah, he he may. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got >> Yeah. If he's on the deed and he's on the mortgage, if you're going to do a short sale, he has to sign that he's not

paying his bill because that's what a short sale is.

>> Mhm. >> So, a short sale is like a voluntary repossession.

Okay. It's like turning It's like turning in a car on a repo

and not paying the difference. So, if you do a short sale or if she does a short sale, you're not involved. Okay?

But if she does it, technically, if she does a short sale, make sure you remember these words. It is without recourse.

Without recourse. And what that means is

they can't come after her for the difference.

Okay? that 25 or 40, they're accepting the that the house is if they foreclose on it, their analysis tells them, the mortgage company, that if they foreclose on it and resell it after foreclosure, they're not going to get any more for it than they're offering than you're offering them.

>> Okay? >> You see what I'm saying? In other words, if they go through all that and they lose 45,000 or they accept a buyer's offer and do a short sale, they lose 45,000. That's their analysis. If they

think they can take it back and sell it for enough to get all their money, they would rather foreclose than take a short sale.

>> But that means that the house is worth more than your realtor says it is. And I doubt it, >> right? >> Why has the house gone down in value in Twin Falls, Idaho? I wouldn't think that's the case.

>> I I I don't understand it to be honest.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of >> Is there something wrong with the house?

>> The house is fine. I I suspect that that

the ex that there was some mortgage payments not being made. I Yeah, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it. I feel like there's details I'm missing.

But >> $45,000 worth of mortgage payments not made. I doubt it.

>> Yeah. The thing is, Dave, I' I've got

I've been saving. I've been following your principles. Um I don't have any debt. I have money set aside that I've

been saving up for a house payment myself. um before her and >> does she have debt other than this?

>> Only uh a small student loan of 5K which

I'm expecting to just kind of ride off as soon as we are together.

>> As soon as you're married >> and we've got a car. Yes, sir.

>> And you got to pay off the car. Okay.

>> Yes, sir.

>> If you're debating on doing that, you know, paying it all down right now. So, you could either pay the 45,000 and keep this house with all the bad memories and still not be shed of the ex cuz he's on everything. Or you can let it be. Let her do a short sale before you're married.

>> Mhm. >> But she's going to have the equivalent of a repo. Her credit score is going to disappear. No, you wish it would disappear.

It's just going to be very low. >> And would that be a problem when they go to buy a house? >> It's going to be a problem when you get ready to buy something later. Could I not do it my own?

Probably have everything in my name. >> You probably can depending on the Idaho law.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Um and she probably has marital rights even if she's not on the mortgage. So you could talk to Church Hill Mortgage and they can tell you, you know, if your spouse has a super low credit score in Idaho, um and you have the money and a

good and a good score, uh or no score.

In your case, it'll be a good score.

then um >> then you know can I qualify that way and get a house? I I really

I think this lady and these three kids needs to be need to physically be off of that site.

>> Yeah, I agree. I think I heard you say that clearly between the lines. And so

I, you know, at based on their emotional well-being and being rid of uh the the

medical the guy with medical problems, which that can mean a whole lot of bad stuff I don't even want to get into. Um

yeah, I'm I'm I'm going to ask her I'm going to ask her to put this house on the market and get it sold. I will tell you that the short sale is a long and arduous process, though. Mortgage companies don't forgive debt easily,

>> right? >> They're going to want appraisals.

They're going to go, they're going to drag this thing out. It's very difficult. And real estate has

appreciated in most areas enough that they don't do many short sales anymore.

So, they're not as adept at it as they used to be. Like back in 2008, everybody got to be experts on short sales. But um

yeah, it's where the bank agrees to accept a price that yields them less

than their payoff and they eat the difference if you do it without recourse. For God's sakes, there's no point in doing it with recourse. I'd let her be foreclosed on before I did it with recourse. >> Mhm. >> Cuz then they that's the same thing.

>> Hard for them to agree to.

>> No, no. They they pretty much that's what a short sale usually is, but just make sure they don't forget to put that in there, you know, like a city bank forgets to do stuff.

>> Yeah. Um, so that Yeah. Wow.

Interesting. All right. Josh is in Canada. Hey, Josh. What's up with you?

>> Hey, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Uh, so I'm wondering if I should quit

working for my family business and work on my side business that I had started to get out of debt. My wife and I are in baby step three and uh I was just it's

it's taken off more than I ever expected it to. >> How long have you been doing it and what are you making?

>> Uh, so I've been doing my side business for about three years. I've started taking it more seriously this year when we decided to just completely knock out the debt. Uh, currently it's making about 10 to 12,000 a month in profit.

That's just before taxes, though. And I'm making about 90,000 at my job working for the family business.

>> What is your side business?

>> Uh, my side business is automotive and commercial and residential window tinting. So, I just go to people's places and tint their windows basically.

But it's uh it's great margins and it's

just like I'm already booking three weeks out at this point. But >> you are a good salesman. Yeah. Way to

go. >> I'm proud of you. >> Yeah. >> Uh so what what are the relational repercussions when you quit the family

>> business?

>> When you leave the family.

>> I feel like >> it's the mafia. I feel like I feel like they're gonna basically cut off the relationship with me. Some things tell me no, but some things tell me yes.

>> You think some things tell me >> Yeah. The reason being my brother left the business. He was in it for a bit.

Left the business and he had moved away.

There was problems on his part too. He didn't do it like the same way. But anyways, um yeah, he had left the business and now they don't they just don't talk anymore. or part of that is mutual, but yeah, it's just kind of a he

doesn't exist. >> I would give them a long runway of communication. >> Yeah. Don't don't make it sudden.

>> Just go, "Hey, Dad, I'm making 90,000 over here. I'm probably going to I'm making $10,000 a month. I think I'm going to go this direction. I need to know how I can do that and help you guys and be a blessing to y'all. If I need to put six more months in here to help you, I will. But I'm probably not going to be here a year from now. So, let's talk about how I can do that and be a blessing to you, Dad."

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 169. The Dave Ramsey Show (REPLAY from January 5, 2021)


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welcome to the dave ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar cart rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw

as the status symbol of choice i am dave

ramsey your host rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today here on the air we're taking your calls about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two

five well over a year ago we start work

on a project rachel writing her latest book and a

year plus later all of that work comes to fruition and today is launch day on know yourself

know your money ta-da it's here it's out

oh i was telling my husband winston last night we were going to bed i was like i feel like my child is being delivered in homes like all across america because the books some of them got delivered early so people yesterday were on social holding them up and and posting it and i was like oh it feels like my child is out there in people's homes right now

and yeah i which winston would not allow by the way but yeah but you can do that with a book not a real child not my real child but uh it feels like a child so it is it is a

is a long pregnancy it's a labor of love in so many ways because i actually ended up writing it almost two years ago because i did it before i had my third baby because i wanted to spend maternity leave not writing the manuscript so i wrote it before that had maternity leave and then came back and started doing edits so it's been a it's been a it's been a long cycle

but it's fantastic that it's out and it's already people are already loving it so i'm so thankful the response has been uh right out of the gate really strong and of course you're working uh what book launch week means is you're working 16 hour days doing uh what a couple of hundred media hits in the in the uh in about a four about a three day period of time here yes yeah here at

the office including in the morning yesterday rachel ray and tomorrow morning good morning america yes wednesday morning for those of you listening on different times but wednesday morning good morning america be watching uh current hit time is around 8 23 if i

remember right yes so be watching for that but also in your local television stations you're hitting every major market uh we can do all of that uh from our studios here with fiber these days and uh should just make it easier than being on a bus it does i mean i miss book tour when you're usually when we launch books we're out for about two and a half weeks traveling

and going to each city and doing book signings at night media during the day and i love that i think it's so fun so the fact that it got cancelled because of covid19 i was like oh man it's like one of those things that was canceled that you just i mean everyone has that in their personal life you're like oh i just hate that i don't get to do that

so well you don't get to see the people and you enjoy and i enjoy going out to eat at all the different restaurants in every city oh there it is no and there it is now we got it i enjoy all of that i really do and i mean obviously yes meeting the people and being in the studios and doing it all but uh but this is fantastic yes with three little kids at home it's worked out it's great

so i'm able to be home in my bed at night but here uh in the day yeah helping promote it because it's been interesting even this morning i did about 10 different cities in a row and almost half of them were like yeah well our entire crew has been talking about it because you know they talk about the seven tendencies in the book and the money fears

and your money personality and how you grew up and they all are connecting it to themselves so it's fun that it already has connected even just in a brief discussion about it well and since we can't do like real launch parties and real book signings we are going to do a virtual launch party tomorrow night january the 6th wednesday night and another one on thursday night at 6 00 p.m is that right both of us yes correct 7 p.m

and uh okay i've got six on my notes so i don't know what's right but um do we know what's right is it seven or six okay i'm almost positive at seven okay i think i'm not great details i'm a free spirit so i might be late to myself this other note says this other note says seven so i'm pretty sure it's got one of each but

you find out it's on rachelcruise.com

yeah i'm pretty sure it's seven so virtual launch party rachelcruze.com you can ask her your money questions join the virtual launch party it's at seven seven p.m central time

yes both now we have clarification on that so um i will fix that i was right man you were right this paper was right this one was wrong which is kind of surprising that's it well no it's not you've got a couple things up in the air and you're memorizing all of it it's perfect so there you go 7 p.m wednesday night and thursday night january 6th

and 7th the virtual launch party you can go to rachelcruise.com to ask her your money questions okay so know yourself know your money the thing that is resonating is the way you grew up with money and the money tendencies the seven money tendencies are you scarcity or are you abundance right right yeah so the whole book really was this deep dive into understanding why so we talk about

the how to we've been doing that for decades now right how to get out of debt how to budget how to invest how to give and so i started really this process this was a few years ago where i remember diving into like the enneagram and learning about myself i was doing some counseling i read the book the birth order because i'm a middle child like seeing just how all of how

you were raised in your current environment affects how you see the world and your personality and i thought man what how does that relate to our money and it felt like this black hole of content because i was like there is so much here of why we view money the way we view it why we handle it why it's our habits and our person like all of that

and when you can start to get a grasp on that then you can start making effective change you can actually start to say okay i can change my money habits because i know when i'm being unhealthy in a certain place or where that's a great habit and i can magnify that so in turn it helps you win with money so much faster and gives you a lasting financial piece as an example

if you understand that you uh are scarcity versus abundance yes what does that do for you well so the seven money tendencies neither one's right or wrong uh on the on the extremes of these that can be unhealthy so for if you're an abundance mindset person you see the glass half full there's always more opportunity always more money to be made uh but the the bad side

the unhealthy of that is you can be unwise you can make unwise decisions because i think you can out earn your stupidity yes 100 you think oh it'll be fine i'll figure it out yeah me as you raise your hands i've always been able to make more money yeah so that's an abundance mindset so a more scarcity mindset you see the glass half empty and again if that's your natural bent that's not a bad thing you're a little bit more cautious a little bit more aware

but the unhealthy side of that when you go to the extreme you end up making decisions out of fear you hold your money tightly because you feel like it's finite you don't want to let go so you're not extremely generous you don't spend it in joy so that's unhealthy so these these um these tendencies to be able to pinpoint okay i can know when i'm going to those unhealthy extremes uh

so another uh tendency is

status versus security and this is why you want money some people want money for security they want to feel like they are taken care of that they're safe i feel good now again

the unhealthy side of that is they end up just stalking away and money ultimately is not your security like there's a level of faith in our life and all of that so that can be an unhealthy uh side status not bad and i'm more of this

i want i want money so that i can enjoy it so that i can buy things i can experience things i will budget so that i can spend like that's where i get my motivation now the unhealthy side of that is that your identity ends up being the things that you buy materialistic or your accomplishments that becomes who you are and that's not healthy so that's an interesting one to figure out why do people want to win with money

and we started this years ago i identified people doing budgets and you included that in the seven tendencies of being a nerd or free spirit and you guys have been through financial peace university 20 years ago heard all that yep and again the same thing the nerd can be

too uptight too detailed clamp down the free spirit free spirit's there for you to have fun and free spirits have to be mature enough to live on a plan so that they get to do more free spiriting that kind of stuff know yourself know your money you can go to daveramsey.com rachelcruise.com discover why you handle money the way you do

and what to do about it it is on sale

officially today it's book launch day this is the dave ramsey show

we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs chm is not health insurance but it is

christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills the medical bill sharing from chm was exactly the way the website described it there were no surprises no bait and switch no hidden agenda chm did everything they said they would by sharing all of our eligible needs we like that it's a non-profit ministry and that we were being better stewards of our money all while helping other families established in 1981

and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org

backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

[Applause]

so rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today we're answering questions about life and money on the

book launch day for know yourself know your money by rachel soon to be her latest number one danielle is with us in

richmond virginia hi danielle welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave how are you better than i deserve what's up so my daughter is three and she was

diagnosed with leukemia at the beginning of april so we pause

our vet snowball and my question is at what point do you start it up again

she still has about two years left of treatment and as we we just weren't sure when to

start it up again yeah takes my breath away um

how's she doing she's doing very well

um treatment's moving right along where we need to be kids are resilient that's what i have to say they're the kids are amazing when they fight this um it's the rest of us that fall apart [Laughter] oh my gosh uh uh

well you got a long slog here

and job one is beat cancer right

yes we don't have any other jobs to do that's our only job yes anything else is like a side gig

agreed yes including including

restarting your debt snowball including all that kind of stuff so let's just say that uh number one it doesn't matter

when you restart it what does matter is that you do everything you can with money time effort spirit prayer everything and you pour everything into this job one okay and it's all consuming and it should be

and it's what you do so let's do that

now you are kind of past the fog of some

of that and you're kind of in the rhythm of the treatments given that it's coming up on the first year right yes

and so if things are in a wacky world

that you're in somewhat normalized the rhythm is somewhat predictable and you have extra cash beyond what you

need to fight cancer

and you want to start back a little bit that's okay i would not expect quote unquote gazelle intensity because i would not expect that of myself were i facing this

but by the way it's perfectly okay with me from from the using the principles that we teach to do absolutely nothing towards your money except pile up cash any extra cash you have you need to not go crazy and go into a bunch of debt with quote grief spending or something like that or or justification or rationalization well we can do anything we want to do because we've got

this problem no because you got to go back and clean up the mess you make and so don't make a mess right but but pile up cash that would have gone towards debt and if you want to just wait until the three years has gone and then restart that's okay with me too rachel what are your thoughts well danielle's curious how much how much debt do you guys have all right we've paid off

the cars we never got credit cards so the only thing we have under student loans which is 42 000 yeah household income is what

65 i believe yeah yeah i mean my

husband's active duty military so it's been a blessing having a steady paycheck during this for sure yeah i mean i'm i mean i have a three-year-old danielle so i can't even imagine like it kind of just makes me tear up talking to you because i'm like i can't even go there emotionally because it's so terrible so i mean if that was me i think everything else in my life just pauses um and i focus on on my on my child

so i'm yeah i'm with i'm with dave right there where if you choose to do nothing for two years until treatment's over 100 okay um because yeah that is your

number one thing but if you had forty two thousand dollars in savings when that happened

the you know at the end of three years that wouldn't be that be the way to do it okay in other words it's not you're not gonna again sli slide over and misbehave

but you're just not gonna pay down on the debt and have no not enough money in savings to deal with something because you might need to jump on an airplane and do something right um and uh to get a treatment it's almost like they know when someone's pregnant we always say just pause for nine months wait till the baby's here wait till everyone's good and healthy and

then whatever money you've saved then you can put towards the debt you can almost think of it like that like a two-year pause we're gonna just pile up cash okay when everything's good and the treatment and everything is done and she's healthy on the other side whatever you've piled up of savings then you can just throw at the debt yeah but don't go buy a new car no right

and say that that's

okay because of the mess you're in you made a bigger mess and people do that sometimes they they um well money is a coping mechanism yeah you push you you push your spending over like food's a coping mechanism you put your spending over to deal with the stress of this and the grief of having to fight this

and all of that so yeah that that's just guard against that and that's what a lot of people dealt with not this specifically but in 2020 the 43

of americans spent because of stress and anxiety during the pandemic

so you see the rise of spending to feel good is what is what you're talking about and 44 can't fit in anything but their sweatpants i just made that up but yeah i mean there's that too so [Music] [Laughter] but i mean yeah food and money or coping mechanisms yeah and alcohol i mean there's a lot there's a lot of magnets alcohol sales are through the roof they're almost as good as plexiglas sales okay

so anyway so so danielle the banner statement is making sure your spending is not just to cope but just for you guys to save pause take care of that baby owen is with us in newark new jersey hey owen your question for rachel and me well congratulations rachel on your book thank you owen i'm graduating you're awesome i'm graduating in may and i have a very generous job lined up

and i was wondering how you would advise a 22 year old who's transitioning from being a college student making a full-time income um of course i'm going to get my emergency fund set up and using my full 401k match but uh there's going through leftover income and i don't want to waste it oh and do you have any debt currently when you graduate you have student loans or credit card debt no

i was fortunate enough to get a nice dollar sister oh awesome amazing uh i mean yeah i mean i would say oh and number one the fact you're asking the question is encouraging because you're gonna be starting this process at 22 which is incredible so yeah i mean it's exactly what you just said just making having some cash on the side for an emergency fund three to six months of expenses

and then looking into retirement and funding that 15 from there and then and even in the process if i wouldn't buy a house right out of college but having some savings if you want to save up for a down payment on a home because you know that may be coming later in life doing that too how much are you going to be making at your new job uh 157 plus a little stock good night owen what are

you doing what's your duet software

software development yes yeah software engineering okay wow nice owen that's a great very impressive young man that's a very good very impressive out of college to give you an idea i made exactly 10 when i came out of college or what you're going to be making when you come out 34. so

yeah i think you have a bright future sir you're going to be okay don't screw it up wow got a free ride somehow and comes

out smart i'm scared

yeah we didn't have any of those either

hey hey hey no i'm talking about me too

oh and that's awesome way to go owen way to go yeah just save up some money pile up some money and get ready for your home purchase above your emergency fund above 15 of your income i think you already knew the answer to this congratulations you are a stud well done okay so how do you feel sitting in your chair doing the show how long have you been doing

the show 30 30 years you're getting more young people calling you than ever before would you say i think it's a youtube thing okay the demographic on youtube do you feel like a grandfather of america or you're like these young i used to be i used to be your peer when you called and i have evolved into uh then i went to uncle dave and now i'm just straight up papa dave yeah there's no question about

it yeah i mean the the guys calling are younger than my kids no if that didn't happen 30 years no

it didn't it was like guys in their 60s calling you hey back in the day right no well i mean still i'll say great america there's a hope for the future there's a lot of young people like owens that's awesome well and i'll bet you dollars to donuts that he was a youtube listener probably not an am

probably crazy or something i don't know he could be you never know but um there's how it works wow that's awesome owen so proud of you sir very well done salute you and your parents well done this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

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[Music]

ramsey personality best-selling author rachel cruz is my co-host today always

joining me but today is a special day it's launch day for her new book know yourself know your money the team around here in high gear with marketing and uh

appearances rachel is doing including good morning america in the morning be sure you jump on around 8 28 15 you'll see her showing up around then know yourself know your money discover why you handle the money handle money the way you do and

what to do about it a little inside

baseball for those of you don't know how things work behind the scenes you would not believe that putting a

title on a book and a subtitle on a book is many times

more difficult than writing the book yes

the crap we go through around here to figure out what how to name something uh to where when you read it

you go okay that's what the book's about meaning it the title is prescriptive and uh and the title doesn't need a subtitle to explain it but helps explain it and not having a subtitle that is in itself a book i mean there are so many things violated by authors and publishers every day and we spend an inordinate amount of time emotional energy and money and creativity studying

these things and testing these things before they come out we probably looked at 40 different titles for this didn't we yeah it was it was a lot because it was hard because i'm like it's kind it's not the psychology of money it's not your money personality i mean like what how do you how do you put it in four words yeah five words six words i mean

it was

it is one of the more difficult things it's a surprising thing and you know why one of the reasons is so surprising was i accidentally was brilliant with my first book

i had no idea no i really was i mean

financial financial peace is a genius title that is a world-class title of a book but it's just like who thought i i just jesus i just dreamed it up and thank you god for giving me that idea because i had no marketing team i had no body to test the title i just said you know what that's what it's about it's about having peace in your finances and everybody will understand that and it works so well and every book after then has been a labor to try to put a my worst title

is more than enough that sucks

i really you know and it's the worst selling book i've ever done too you think it's because the title yeah well no the book is awesome no there's multiple reasons i won't get into all of them but some are my fault some of them might be the publisher but the uh uh but the book itself is awesome once you get into it but very few people have read

it there you go okay so it's just there you go it's a process you guys morgan is with us in jacksonville florida hi morgan welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave and rachel um so i just had a

christian um me and my husband we bought a house eight months ago out in the country it's like a it's a really beautiful house it's on a on a small river on a small river third acre or a third yeah third of an acre but um we thought it was a manufactured home and it's actually a modular home um but you really can't tell because it has like a big porch

and like a detached garage and things and so we've been like putting a lot into it because we like kind of want to be like our family home and um but we recently have just discovered that it has like two very very large problems and one of them one of them it's not technically a problem yet but it will be a problem um in the next few years

and so we were

we were trying to see if we would we should stay in this house or if it would be wise to like stay in this house for as long as we wanted we were hope we were wanting to stay for like seven to nine years until we like outgrow the house but um we were just wondering if like i don't know if we could get the money back if we did fix the larger issue and so i

was just wondering if you guys would advise that we should leave the house what are the two things what are the two things what do they cost and what'd you pay for the house um so we paid 156 for the house um

and one of the problems we recently discovered that there was water damage in the mudroom and so we that's like the

urgent problem that we currently are having to go back in our baby steps into our emergency fund to fix because there's like mold and rotting wood on in the floor and um but

what's that going to cost what's that going to cost i'm hoping under 10 000. okay so what's the other problem

um it's a foundation problem we've recently had a lot of cracking in the house there was already a lot of cracking but the cracks have gotten wider just in the eight months that we've been here and so um the guy that we had come out today he said that with doing it at the very

cheapest it was probably going to be 15

000 but he couldn't even do it and so the people that could do it are a much more expensive

um company so they would

they would probably be more around twenty thousand six he said he said that he did he did say that yeah okay so you don't have enough information yet your feelings are hurt that your new house is broken

okay yeah you don't have a financial catastrophe okay fix the mud room get five bids

and spend six months studying the foundation before you make a decision on it foundation repair is full of

the people that do it are uh there are groups of people that do it that are wonderful people and there's a bunch of jack legs that just make up crap as they're going and i think that's who you met today well he was he yeah i know he was nice but you he also didn't know how to fix it he also gave you an estimate about what

another person's company would charge you which is making up crap he pulled that out of his ear he had to call the the other company we called the other company and we called the manufacturer of the house and they were saying that we would only because it has like this mental uh like this protection underneath this insulated protection in the crawl space he said that we would um like

he said we'd have to get a specific kind of foundation specialist which there's a it's like a really small town we live in and so the closest one

um had you've had three conversations and you're ready to move okay don't do it fix the mud room and spend six months studying the foundation getting more bids talking to more people finding more ways to fix it there's a lot of things you can do to foundations there's more than just one possible fix and there's certainly more than just one possible company even if

you're quote unquote out in the country you can

pay people five thousand dollars and they will come out in the country and fix this for seven i don't know i'm making this up but you don't know this yet and so you've got to gather more

information when's the point that you would say no yeah you need to move that it's not worth fixing because in order to sell it you got to fix it you have to disclose yeah you have to fix it or you have to disclose it right one of the two i mean if it was an 80 000 repair on this i'd have a lawsuit against the seller for not disclosing

you know at that point the people that sold it to them and the real estate agents are involved and the home inspector that missed the inspection which by the way never buy a home without an inspection and these are the reasons right here so you don't get your heart broken on the thing that you thought you were going to be in love with for nine years and now

you find out you got mud room with mold and a crack foundation so foundations in

different states and in different regions are sitting on different kinds of soil and there's all kinds of different situations um with you being in florida you're probably sitting on some version of sand and um so you know it's probably some version of slab and i don't know you gotta you just have to look at it and get in there and figure out what they do in tennessee

the fix would be different than it is in florida but i have owned over 2000 pieces of real estate i did rehabs for a living for a decade and one thing i know

is is that it's guys working on houses are kind of like doctors they are practicing that's why they call

it a medical practice they're making crap up as they go and

they proved that during covid they didn't know what they were doing and so they just did stuff and so they're practicing medicine

and some of them are better at practicing than others and none of them apparently are good at math but the same thing is true of foundational people they're practicing they're trying to figure it out and they're looking at three little cracks and trying to figure out how to fix your house you need more information before you shut the economy down that's what you're going to do this is the dave ramsey show

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this coming tuesday night we want to do something to help you guys kick off your new year right with money after last year a lot of people will raise their hand and say i need to reset i need to restart

i need to get get a do-over i need a whiteboard i need to start fresh and i'm ready to set go so we are doing a reset live stream

live from lifechurch.tv in oklahoma city

this coming tuesday night at

7 p.m central time that's january the 12th at 7 pm central time it is free it will be me

rachel cruz chris hogan and pastor craig

groschel and uh rachel will be covering some of the material from know yourself know your money i will of course be talking with chris chris hogan and i'll be talking about how to walk you through the baby steps and how to do your reset and pastor craig has an incredible he's a world-class communicator uh talk on discipline that i have

loved and i asked him to do it it's really good and so um looking forward to this it's gonna be an absolutely incredible night it is completely free how do i watch you

say dave well here's the deal you text the word reset 233 789

text reset to seven 33

nine and it is a free did i mention it's free live stream this tuesday night that's gonna be fun oh it's me great i think that the content is

really spot on for where we are right early 2021 we did message of hope we did that we did a couple of things in 2020 to kind of set the course and i think that this event it is going to launch people into a new year to gain a new control over specifically their money but also their life like you said the discipline um talk from craig can be applied in every aspect of your life but really getting your money under control this year i think it's something that so many people feel i wonder i'm sure stats will come out later in the year resolutions money's always in the top three but i wonder if it even rises to the top of the top because of 2020.

can't protect everything you're still going to die you know there's lots of things people still get sick you can't control any of that that's not the point but wealth doesn't buy any of that anyway all it does is give you the ability to manage the process you know as you're going through and it gives you lots of options to do things and if you need to buy an airline ticket to go visit a sick relative

you don't have to think about it because you've got the money but when when you need to buy an airline ticket to visit a sick relative and you're broke now you have two crises a financial crisis and a sick relative and so you've got all of these things going on and this is your chance to reset and not leave yourself vulnerable again text the word reset to 33789 it's

this coming tuesday night we want you there there's already over 65 000 people registered to watch this it is going to be the largest live stream we've ever done it's uh it's going to be probably 150 000 people by the time the uh the by the time the numbers are in next tuesday so we're really really excited about this all right jake is with us jake's in portland oregon hi jake welcome to

the dave ramsey show hi dave and rachel thanks for taking my call sure what's up hi i have a question so this year i became debt free i followed the baby steps and i'm debt free and i've got approximately 70 000 in the bank with um that's including my emergency fund my issue is that my mother and my

older brother with mental disabilities live in a dilapidated house that's owned by my grandpa she's been living in it for 17 years without paying any kind of rent and he refuses to maintain it at all so it hasn't had anything done to it in 17 years it's currently falling apart it has mold in it it has holes in the wall i mean it's it's pretty bad i've been running the numbers and i think it's going to be about a hundred thousand dollar remodel so my question is should i buy this house from my grandpa and then put the money in out of my savings into doing the remodel even though i may not have enough right now or do i say you know forget this house and then move them out into a different house because this is an unhealthy situation and i'm not sure how to fix this situation at the moment what do you make of here i make about 110 000.

you're an extraordinary young man willing and able to do this for your mom and your brother with disabilities well done um so

what i always think of is what is the most efficient way financially and time-wise to accomplish

the goal and the goal is for your mother and brother to have a place to live that's not mold infested and falling through

okay so um

now there's two things you can do uh

what would i do if i were in your shoes is your home paid for i actually sold my home at the beginning of the pandemic and now i'm renting really cheap so i lowered my living expenses by 75 percent by renting [Music] so at some point again you will buy and move on with your life in that part of your world are you single yes sir okay

all right um i would do a two-step procedure if i were in your shoes one is i would move them out into an inexpensive rental immediately

and just pay for it

you make a ton of money and you have a ton of money in comparison to them and by the way a few months of rent is a lot less than buying a house for a hundred thousand dollars or remodeling a house for a hundred thousand dollars you can rent a long long time for a hundred grand right yes sir okay so we don't do this

forever but my point is use of your cash and burning of your cash if you rented them a property for two years what could you rent it for

uh yeah approximately around there it would be about 1300 a month i believe okay all right and so um

you know i'm probably going to cheat on that and say let's let's try to they're living in a dump now let's try to make it a thousand that's twelve thousand if you did for two years that'd be twenty four thousand dollars right yes sir okay and that's a sizable upgrade from where they are during that two years save money

and buy an inexpensive property that is

way nicer than they're living in now

and pay cash for it and just let them live there okay and i think you could probably pull that off in two years couldn't you yes sir i think so and then you would move on with you buying a house for you later do not move in with them and do not combine your household do not combine your households in order to make this financial goal happen okay that is not what i'm suggesting okay but uh where do they live uh they live

down in arkansas where in arkansas uh northwest arkansas around fayetteville yeah okay so you can buy

you can uh 4x of their living situation

for uh 75 grand to 100 grand can't you

yes sir okay yeah i mean that's a palace compared to where they're living definitely yeah and just pay cash for it and then all you gotta do is make sure that the taxes are paid the insurance is kept up and um that your mom keeps the utilities paid which she's probably doing now right um barely she's got a business that wasn't doing very well before the pandemic

and now it's just stuck a knife in it so it's going to go out of business so she has zero income at this point yeah how old is she uh in her early 50s

time for her to have another income yes sir and that's uh something we talked about but if she fights against it yeah well sitting on your butt is not going to work it's you know this is an option so you can be generous to a point but we're not going to be an enabler either so um you're a fine young man that's how i would do it i would rent something for uh probably less than a thousand now

that i've learned a little more and uh yeah and then some you know good area but it's an expensive area yeah and so and good people uh but i i would

uh yeah rent something inexpensively for

a couple years pile up some cash pay cash for it and then move on with your financial goals but also a part of that is she needs to be able to maintain it and she needs to be able to uh get her career moving again she is in her early 50s and this is a requirement of the future of her life she has a 90 year life expectancy that's a long time

from 52.

this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

welcome to the dave ramsey show you can

be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you

are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice hi i'm

dave ramsey your host rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today we're taking your calls about life and money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight

eight two five five two two five happy

new year america it is time for you to get a fresh start on your money and part of what we're doing at ramsey to help you do that is we're launching a brand new book today by rachel cruz it has been over a year in the making know yourself know your money is officially on sale another number one i'm pretty sure we haven't gotten the numbers in yet we won't for a week but i'm pretty confident of that um congratulations thank you

it's exciting it's weird it's always weird with book launch day because again it's a project you worked on for so long and now it's out there and yeah my hope is people love it and

it helps them i mean it's kind of a new way of looking at the way you handle money and it's really dives into your decision making how you're wired why you do the things you do and it's it's really exciting i'm looking down the back of it and i knew we did this but now that i look at it in this setting it's pretty impressive the endorsements on the back of the book are marcus buckingham uh dr henry cloud candace cam cameron

puree is that is that pronounced

yeah and well i mean you loved her back when she was on full house when you were a little kid so there you go bobby bones of course our buddy here in nashville that's a country music um icon uh

radio radio icon i guess i should say christine kane another icon and the minimalists so uh and apparently their new

uh netflix thing may have dropped because i'm getting some comments on social about my appearance on it yeah i think it's out so i think it must have hit so uh those guys are great the minimalist oh they're awesome awesome awesome and they obviously love you quite a wonderful quote i did their minimalist challenge um i write about it in the book but it's fascinating because it's all about understanding

so one of the tendencies is do you do are you quality or quantity when we talked about the seven tendencies earlier in the show and so i am quantity like i would rather have inexpensive things but have 20 pairs of earrings versus like one nice pair of earrings so that's always been my bent it's always kind of how i've shopped and i just i just had so much crap like

i have so much stuff so they're minimalist challenges you take a calendar month and every day whatever the date is you use that number to give away

something sell something throw it out so if it's the 14th of the month there's 14 items around your house you got to get and get rid of and you do it every and it's number one is so great just minimizing your life and just getting stuck i mean oh i can't remember

the number now i can't do the math that quick but yeah i write about in the book but it's amazing so it's they're they're awesome and i totally believe in their message because i mean it's and again so much of even this book there's that level of not letting stuff absolutely consume you and i think that's a level and a reason people just go into debt and i think a lot of life problems masquerade themselves as money problems so you look at a debt problem

and it can either be through consumption of things you can't afford it there can be a contentment issue there could be a planning issue you're not planning your money well so you're using debt i mean all of it it all fits together in this huge cycle and i love kind of connecting all the dots know yourself know your money so one of the tendencies is quantity versus quality

and as you say in the book neither one are bad neither one or good it's only when you go to the extreme of one of them that's right yep so the moderation is ideal right you kind of have i knew a lady in our neighborhood who would buy coupon stuff and she had like 7 000 jars of peanut butter in her basement not quite but it felt like

it when i was a little kid like enough jars of peanut butter to last you into the millennial right and i was a little kid so a long time ago so i mean that could even be a scarcity mindset too of like this fear of oh gosh oh gosh that's almost like a prepper before there were preppers but yeah but our coupon are gone crazy i don't know

but i mean that's a that's a yeah it's almost i mean that's like it is hoarding it's a borderline it was real organized so it wasn't hurting but um but yeah the uh she had the organizer lady come before she was born too

but but yeah

and one of them one of the spectrums that you that we gauge ourselves on in the book is experiences versus things things yeah so would you rather spend money on an experience or a thing would you rather go out to eat or would you rather have a nice shirt right exactly and where and where the tension can be in this it's not as much as the extremes

but relational tension comes up a lot in this so married couples when you value spending money on different things or different ways that's where conflict can come in you are experienced off the chain yes and winston is not no he's all things i mean even when we were first married it was like our first i think it really was our first year of marriage we'd go out to dinner

and he'd always get water and i was like please just get a glass of wine or get a coke like i don't care just like let's get a drink and enjoy and he's like babe i'm good i'm good with my water because i can take my seven dollars and go buy a two liter coke or a bottle

of wine or whatever it is and and for a while it just always frustrated me a little bit i was like man just like enjoy he's like i'm good he genuinely was so good he's like i'm good and then as i was like flushing out this book thing about swords i was like that's it like that's a prime example of he just doesn't really value experiences he enjoys

it and it's fine but where i want the whole elaborate thing he's like no i'm good and yeah it just makes me laugh even our christmas lists our christmas lists are 100 different i'm like i want a small gift card i want a zoo membership with the kids like i want all this experience and he's like i want alexa light bulbs so i can turn on my living room

when i can say alexa

yeah like that's winston he's like no because for him it's like i value if i work hard and make money no alexa light bulbs were a thing oh yeah lord jesus no we won't get to the conspiracies of everything but anyways so i'm like yeah like that is that is a real thing so when you budget and sit down as a couple especially if you're getting out of debt

and you're having to make sacrifices like where you're putting your money there can be tension so there's just the warning flag of that that that's where conversations can come into play saver versus suspender yes that's a tendency and again extremes not good you don't want to be a hoarder on the saver side you don't want to spend everything you make on that side but being able to name

it so are you experienced or things i'm experienced your experience okay yeah are you quality or quantity or your quantity or quality your quality

yeah yeah like i don't i don't really care um

you know you buy a lot i do you're a

spender i'm k i'm a spender i'm definitely a spender but i uh but it's not quite but i yeah i'm not gonna if i go to buy a whatever i want the best one a pair of boots you don't need like yeah i don't have no desire to have six pairs of boots i really have one really good pair that i can wear the rest of my life yeah get some good cowboy boots yeah that's i've got a pair that i've had for 20 years yeah

there you go that's it that's it we'll probably have them for 20 more but and they look great so shut up yeah sure sure they do

sure they did polish up oh old-fashioned thing we used to polish our shoes not throw them away but yeah so know yourself know your money rachel cruz's new book is out on the stand you can find it anywhere great books are sold amazon daveramsey.comrachelcruise.com

target barnes noble books noble walmart

uh you can find it it's out there good morning america in the morning be watching at around 8 15 8 20 rachel will be on talking about the book so check it out this is the dave ramsey show

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air it's book launch day for her new book know yourself know your money there is a virtual launch party

january 6 that would be tomorrow night for most of you in january 7th thursday night wednesday and thursday night two different virtual launch parties at 7 pm central time

and that's it rachelcruze.com you can go live and ask her your money questions and participate in this book launch if

you'd like we'd love to have you again just go to rachelcruise.com and sign up for the virtual launch party wednesday or thursday night this week at 7 pm jesse is with us in grand rapids michigan hi jesse welcome to the dave ramsey show hi thank you so much for everything you've taught we are just having a lot of fun my husband and i um built our dream house four years ago

we went into the steps baby steps about 15 months ago and i didn't think we'd get through them as fast as we did but we're already on step six wow great yeah we feel good so i'm kind

of a nerd i punch the numbers every day and i've gotten a little addicted to this mortgage payoff calculator good and

so you know i arbitrarily picked a number to save for our two kids for college they're currently ages six and eight and we're putting 150 for each kid into

an esa but i'm seeing if i you know i don't want to borrow and rearrange these steps because i know that's my pet peeve when people call in but can i or should i lower

that dollar amount in the esa in order to put more on the house or should i just leave that be just stay calm and just pay it off we're currently saving cash for a barn so anything extra right now we're putting aside to build our barn i'm just wondering your thoughts

how much money do you guys have saved in the usa so far each in the esa are only about i'd say four grand for each kid what's your household income

about 200 000. and what do you owe in your home 217. what's the barn cost

uh we estimated about 60 and we have

we have 25 000 saves currently okay

so um 200 a month is 2400

a year

that doesn't really move the needle on barns or houses okay i mean you can if you want

but it's not really going to move it that much what's moving it what has moved you along so fast is your all's attention to detail and your intentionality i mean you have this wonderful income and you're using it to accomplish your financial goals way to go touchdown so

technically to answer your question about rearranging the baby steps you know we just say baby step five saving for college we don't say how much because it ranges so much whether you've got little kids older kids what your household income is all that kind of junk as to what you can put in and still accomplish your baby and still be putting something towards baby step six but um if you wanted to back it down to fifty dollars it's okay but my point is it's 2400 a year

yeah i just like i said that mortgage calculator on your website is amazing and you can see what an extra you know we're putting we're paying eight hundred dollars extra a month on our mortgage currently

and giving for a bargain yeah yeah so when you get the barn finished so you're estimating if you stay on your current path the barn will be done and the house will be paid for when um 2000 in about

six years five years five years yeah that's what i was going to guess okay so doing this change doing this changes it four months okay okay

i made that up but i'm not far off it might be it might be five months it might be three months the dave calculator it's 20 but it's 2400 i mean over five years so that's ten thousand dollars that's right yeah it's not it's not going to move the needle on it's not gonna change if it changed your payoff on your home by five years or three years or something like that yeah maybe but when it changes it by a month or two months or three months now i wouldn't do it

jesse you're what's your husband what's he saying is he is he on board too or is he kind of like oh we can kind of chill a little bit oh yeah no he he started listening to dave in a am radio van when he was a landscaper when he started dating so he's he's so chill and he just says you know the the growth that we'll gain in

the esa is better than the low interest on the mortgage if the growth on the esa account yeah and keep it going yeah so the technical baby step answer is you can do either i probably would stay with your current plan because i don't think it moves the needle that much to change it and i think you'll be glad you put money into the usa i'm really not even worried about

the growth on the essay versus a mortgage bound you know that that you know that would lend you to say i'm going to load the essay up i'm going to put even more in but right now you you're touching the base which is what you want to do on baby step five you want to do something towards kids college and then you moved on to do the other stuff

so yeah and she's she's an example of the nerd not quite on the extreme because i don't think you're unhealthy by any means in that sense but she's running numbers she's calculating it's almost like you want to be gazelle intense through these baby steps and you're not supposed to you're supposed to back off so the fact you guys are saving for a barn i think it's awesome like yeah

you can just yeah take a breath even though you're crunching the numbers and you're seeing the difference of what you're paying just an interest even for two years of a home having a mortgage versus not i think all that's awesome that you're feeling what a free spirit doesn't understand that is that when nerds like uh jesse and me are running these numbers that's actually fun for us well

she said i had a lot of fun we're not we're not we're not fretting it's not bothering us this is like what we do instead of watching netflix we would rather run numbers on something it's just more fun than watching an oprah rerun you know so uh we actually get joy out of this i know it's hard for people to grasp but don't think that way but all

the nerds are out there going yes spreadsheets rule yes and so you know but that's you know again if you turn it if you turn it all the way over to where it becomes an obsession then you're wrong and she didn't no she didn't that's why i said she but i'm saying she's a perfect example of a nerd yeah because she's loving it and her husband's just kind of like hey

we got this yes yeah and so very very intentional good job jesse you guys have done a wonderful job with your money so proud of you yes i don't think there's oprah uh anymore oh well probably somewhere

ben is in niagara falls ontario hi ben

how are you good how are you guys better than i deserve how can we help um well i have a bit of a morality question for you um so my wife and i

uh are trying to pay off our debt so i used to be driving uh like a really cheap junker car

um and now you you always say that like

mama gets a good car right and um we actually moved over new year's

like christmas new year's now she lives she lives or she's five

minutes away from her work and i i have about a 40-minute commute so i've been driving like a good car and she's been driving to junker um it just it doesn't quite feel right to me that that it's that way but i'm worried about the reliability of the the junker obviously [Music] well i don't know what the law is in canada but in the united states it's illegal for you to drive the good car

i'm kidding it's federal law mama gets a good car um does she care ben is she good

or does she want to yeah like she she doesn't care this is just like this is just something i i have a problem with you have like a conviction that like oh you feel bad that you're driving the nice car and your wife's not i think you're okay because you guys are only gonna be in baby step two for how much longer um about 10 months yeah

why don't you switch every other week

yeah i guess you could do that i don't know i just made that up i have no idea but i mean it has to do with it has to do with how everybody feels about it and more than it does the reality obviously if the stupid car breaks one of you's got a problem and canada is a bit wee bit cold this time of year so um

you know i you know you don't want her stuck out in the cold for sure i mean that literally could be dangerous uh depending on your situation so but she's five minutes from work i know it's still complete no yeah absolutely but the i don't walk four minutes in that stuff but the uh um yeah i

you know you can switch out or you know as long as the thing is not giving you any trouble you can drive it i i it's all it's a

joke but it's um about marriage relationships and

you know understanding sacrifice all the way through this thing so you're not an evil guy either way ben it was a joke but everybody gets the joke because mama gets the good car has a sense of gallantry

gallantry to it civility to it you this

is the dave ramsey show

if you're financially conscious you know that healthcare expenses can take a big bite out of your budget christian healthcare ministries or chm is here to help trim those expenses and make sure your family is cared for chm is not health insurance but it is

christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills most people have the means to pay for basic doctor services but when it comes to something on a much larger scale say several thousand dollars for surgery or hospitalization folks are worried they'll be left to try and find a way to pay for that themselves not too long ago i was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and they really came through

so far we've had over a hundred and eighty thousand dollars worth of bills and got close to seventy five percent discounts chm shared the rest of the expenses to see if chm is right for you and your budget check out chministries.org backslash budget

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so

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rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author launching a new book today know yourself know your money discover why you handle money the way you do and what to do about it is my co-host today our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online

retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question

comes from marilee in nevada

i just paid off my student loans back in june i just finished the legacy journey through ramsey plus and would love to begin a giving category in my monthly budget and baby step three i already give 10 of my income as a tithe to my local church but i'm wondering how to create something a little more how do i address the numbers is there a recommendation on how to start giving past your tithe do

you have any recommendations on which organizations get started with or even how to begin giving i want to do my research before i give money away if that makes sense yeah that definitely makes sense um i mean we we always recommend 10 no matter where you are in the baby steps and the whole process the baby steps is to give a little until you can give a lot

and obviously that a lot huge explanation point is on baby step seven once you have your house paid for you have no debt kids college is taking care of your fund your retirement then you're able to give a ton of your income because you have a lot of all your income coming in because you have no debt so if you do still want to start giving a little bit more

and you're on baby step three i'm i think that's great you can i would up it maybe just a few percentage points right now i really want that emergency fund for you because once you have that stability then you're going to be able to give beyond that 10 for sure so i would recommend just a few percentage points if you want to right now a lot of organizations especially

if they're 501 c 3s they have to publish their budgets on their website they have to make that public so you can go in and look to see how much of the money coming into the organization is going to fees or administration or to the actual

mission of what they're doing you can look at all of that get a feel talk about it i mean we take giving pretty seriously here ramsey what we talk about is how much you spend on your retirement account and investments is the time you need to spend on what you're giving i mean you as a as a believer you have been given

resources and to put it back out to help people you want to make sure you're doing it really efficiently so i think you researching organizations is smart um what to get started with i mean anything you're passionate about that's i think one of the best things about our world today is through the internet social media there are so many organizations out there anything you you love and have a heart for whether it's foster care or rescuing people out of human trafficking digging wells for fresh water in africa helping

the homeless community i mean like anything that you have a heart for there's probably an organization that helps with that mission so just race i would start there of what you love yeah and we have chosen

to give substantially to a few with the ramsey family foundation not to give 500 to a bazillion different people uh

and spread it out then instead we'd rather make an impact on a handful and so if i were in your situation merely just getting started i would just pick one for now there's always

more valid needs and

valid ministries filling those needs than there is money free that you have anyway there's always more and so you cannot be everywhere and don't try to be everywhere don't dilute and don't give a dollar to 500 organizations give 500 to one or whatever it is you're much better off to do that your life's much simpler you won't get as many emails you won't get invited as many dinners you get charity fatigue

you do you do you get philanthropy fatigue and so you're not going to get there with all that just keep it real clean and real simple and do some research like you're saying you're going to do and and the way we pick the ministries that we support we usually know something about them or they're one degree of separation personally one of the ramses do and or

one of us had one of the ramses has a passion for that category uh and that's how they end up in the

uh it is a very personal thing with

ramsey family foundation is how we do it with our giving as a family uh and so that's how we would recommend you do it and i you know in your case once you finish baby step three beyond the tithe if you want to just put a flat a dollar amount to start and go okay i'm gonna do 500 more a month or whatever just make up a number

i don't care what it is once you get further along i'd recommend a percentage in addition to the 10 on your tithe i would give another x percent to other things and that's how

we do it at our house and then no matter what your income becomes over the years you've still got your formula and you'll always be as you make more you'll always be giving more automatically and you don't have to stop and rethink and all that kind of stuff you can choose to increase your percentage if you wanted to later on but that's not always necessary either don is with us in grand rapids michigan hey don welcome to

the dave ramsey show hey how's it going great man how can we help a question about um where to put my

retirement fund so i'm 11 payments away my wife and i are 11 payments away from being out of our inverted 3b

and then we will have you know we'll be

right into the retirement section of it so so if i know your order of retirement

typically but if i max out my raw

401k at work she's a contract bookkeeper

so she can do a roth um 401k set up for her

and then and then um we could do

roth ira a roth you know iras

right i have an option at work to do a hsa so i'm wondering if i should do an hsa because that's kind of like double tax incentivized i don't pay taxes going in or coming out i know i don't get the growth that i would but i'm just trying to figure out how to best place that last a little bit

the hsa if you use it for medical is a double because you take the tax uh deduction

it's not really because you take the tax deduction and then you don't pay taxes on it as you use it and so it's really just once and you can get the growth on it uh check out a company called health equity that's who we have our hsa savings with and they have mutual fund options i have never used my hsa for health issues knock on wood uh consequently i've got a couple hundred thousand bucks in

it because i just load it up every year it's yet one more way i can max out things and if once your home's paid for um you know you max out everything so you you take advantage of everything at your fingertips and that would be both roths uh both 401k roths and the hsa

but you get a tax deduction when you go into the hsa and you don't pay taxes on it when it comes out so that is uh like tax free

use of that money if you use it

for health and you would you use that

before the roth ira no i would use the

roth first because it's growth it's tax-free growth regardless of what you use it for okay that's what i thought you want to make sure thank you yeah hey thank you for the call open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five carrie is in dallas texas hi carrie

happy new year hey hey dave happy new

year to you too and thanks for taking my call sure what's up um okay so i'm your problem child

i have lots of credit card debt

um to the tune of 70 000

dollars in credit card debt and yeah

and i um you know purchased

my first home um four years ago almost

and lots of things went wrong

with it but that wasn't all the debt

and um i was given advice from

a friend a year ago to just stop paying

the credit card debt they were all zero percent and all the interest rates started i knew they were about to skyrocket and it was going to get to the point when i couldn't even make minimum payments anymore and so they just said quit paying just

stop paying and i did try to call several of them and they weren't willing to negotiate anything with me they they didn't want to talk to me because i was current on everything yeah and i had always been of course

so now they're all coming full circle all right i'll tell you what hold on we come back from this break we'll get the rest of your story and see if we can help you this is the dave ramsey show

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five we're talking with carrie in dallas texas she ran up seventy thousand dollars in credit card debt as the interest rates went from zero to

full-blown as they always do she was unable to make the payments her friend suggested she stop and that's about how far we got in the conversation what else is going on miss carrie yes sir well i started working your program last month i reached out and a financial advisor

found me and we've already met she's got me on a budget

she i've done plastic surgery

i've done all her homework we're meeting friday again for the new update

things are actually going great i was going to say you actually while you're out of control you're starting to feel in control i'm more in control i mean that's the first time i've ever been on a budget before um i i checked out every dollar but i think with all this default debt i felt that you need a budget or y in

ab.com was better for me

i don't because of all this unknown i don't know i don't know um

okay yeah it's going to be much better you just need to run two debt snowballs is all okay so i've got all my default debt um i i settled or i just settled and paid

two of them i knocked two of the cards off myself i got summons for two others through the same collection agency or law firm and

i did get a lawyer for the first one and could kick myself because i realized i could do it myself

so we he settled for me on the first one

and then i guess it gave me the template to know how to do it so that's what i paid for but i settled the second one my question is um on the debt snowball

with those

they're going to be coming at me you know the different amounts are coming at me and once it goes i get

a summons i've got to settle those out no you don't so i don't

okay um they can sue you but they can show you but in texas they really can't do anything

well i thought they could get control of my bank account which would be not in texas um not in texas i thought

they can't garnish your wages well you don't need that you don't need to give them your bank account information right well i figured i could just switch bank accounts if that were the case yeah okay yeah so okay we're not gonna let their we're not gonna let them create the emergency we're gonna let you create it so all of these this entire 70 000 is in default

yes sir okay and what other debts do you

have i only have my um my home

loan which i owe 178

on that are you current i am current i'm

current on everything else okay the car 707 000. perfect

and 2012

my income is 78 000.

okay and i'm also working i've been

doing ubereats on the side delivering um and i was able to pull in 500 last week so way to go um

i'm planning to just keep attacking that as well you're inspiring i mean you're inspiring you made a huge mess and then when you decided to do something about it you got a template from the lawyer you met with a financial advisor you're working your plan you picked up an extra job you made a budget you're doing everything you are really on fire i'm so proud of you for what

i do so i am and i just want to keep this fire and so as you got as you get little summons if you want to stop and settle those that's fine but if you get one that's a huge one just let it sit there's one coming up it's like eight thousand you know 8200

and i told them i spoke with them on the phone and she wasn't willing to talk to me without she wanted me to make a good faith painter so we're not doing that today um i just need to know what you would be willing to settle for so i can you know plan for that and be able to give that to you in a month or two and she goes i can't do anything with you right now you know then hang up and so i

said listen go ahead and slam the phone down just for the satisfaction

just for the satisfaction the woman if she's going to act like she's a test pilot for a broom factory treat her that way okay

that was her decision not yours it's not you know that's all the technique that's called intimidation and don't don't let them do that to you you've got a plan you're on fire you got a system and so what you're going to do let me here's what's going to happen okay you have three different uh summons and or

collectors coming at you and you have two thousand dollars sitting there this is in the future this is in the future what you're going to just you're going to mess with every one of them you're going to go i got 2 000

who wants it first if you take it

you will get that as a settlement on 8 000 that's behind door number one if you don't then we're gonna go to door number two and whichever one of you calls me back first that's who's getting this money i'll get back to the rest of you later when i got some money and this is a game show baby you know and just have some fun with it right

and then you know how to settle it you've got the template to do that get it in writing and do not allow them electronic access to your checking account that way they don't know where the flip it is right and they don't clean you out on the rest of your plan but i did settle on this law firm i did the two that i settled on i do not need to pay online or anything like that or

because it is in a settlement am i safe to just go online and pay them or do i need to do the cashier's check every time if online means they have your bank account information yeah i would think they would do not do that don't do it okay okay that's what i thought i just wanted to ask because they they it once they have that if they're unscrupulous

and some of them are they can turn around and clean out your bank account okay so you're going to get around to working with everybody we're not trying to ditch them we're not trying to be a deadbeat we're just not going to be abused and we're going to play them against each other until we get through this so i need to start with my default debt snowball smallest to largest on that

i do have three cards that are current um i'd knock them out if you can get a smaller amount i'd knock them out first

what we tell you is run two debt snowballs run your current stuff and pay it off first and let all the stuff that's in default just sit and once you've gotten rid of the car payment and the three active credit cards everything but your house then that gives you more cash flow to deal with the stuff that's in default that's our normal routine you got a few of them coming at

you right now and so if you want to uh kind of dodge around a little bit head fake and jump in and out of that and jump over and knock out one of those summons that's okay there's not a bad thing here okay what i don't want you to do is i don't want them threatening you or giving you a hard time or bossing you

around to become the priority instead you set your priorities you have

power over money for the first time in your life carrie use it right you make don't worry about

them taking me to court then because sometimes you feel pressure to settle nope before court we can settle after just as good not worried about but i thought that they would do the full amount plus court costs well they will but we're also going to negotiate that down to 10 cents on the dollar okay and they're going to be happy to get it junk debt it is junk

these aren't junk debt it is junk debt it's credit cards it's in default it's called junk debt okay that's what it is because they all say they're representing the card that itself it's still well i don't give a crap third party they either own it or they don't but when they get ready to sell it they're gonna sell it for a nickel on the dollar right and

so that's what it's worth to them it's junk debt it's it's it's almost a year since they've been paid they have their probabilities they know their probability is almost zero it's five percent chance they're going to get paid and the fact that you're working with them gets them all excited you actually have a phone number that works everybody else in their database doesn't i mean that's who they're dealing with

and so you're like a unicorn for them they're so happy to talk to somebody to abuse you so cara is great carrie carrie you're doing great listen if you're not in ramsey plus i'm gonna put you in it hold on kelly pick up and make sure you're tied into that because you were doing everything right to straighten out your life you are doing a full reset which is what we're doing

next tuesday night guys you don't want to miss out on that it is a free live stream event next tuesday night at seven o'clock text the word reset to dave ramsey.org

i text it to 33789 reset to

set 33789 and join the new

upcoming live stream next tuesday

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welcome to the dave ramsey show you can

be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you

are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice my co-host today on the air ramsay personality number one best-selling author and my daughter rachel cruz it is book launch day at ramsey which means

we are in high gear all over this building lots of media hits lots of things happening and rachel's doing all of them the new book know yourself know your money hit the shelves today a labor of love for over a year

it takes to put one of these things together and get it out know yourself know your money discover why you handle money the way you do

and what to do about it and rachel our the our your seven money tendencies

have been one of the things that people get their hands around first in the book it's not the only thing that you teach about knowing yourself to know your money but the seven tendencies are something that people gravitate to immediately that and how you grew up i was going to say the the childhood money classrooms the tendencies and even the fears the money fears is something people relate to a lot yeah

the tendencies are fun just because there's not a right or wrong it's just understanding and unpacking okay here's where i tend to lean when it comes to my money and it just gives you a level of awareness and to say okay i can now figure out when i'm being unhealthy in that area when i'm when i'm okay and functioning well it gives you kind of this guidepost

and another level of this which i love is you start to understand other people in your life your spouse your parents your grown kids your friends it gives you a level of empathy to say okay they're different than me when it comes to money not right or wrong necessarily in these tendencies but they're different and here's their view they're looking at money a little differently than i am okay

and so the seven right quick rattle them off duet oh it's like the the test okay nerd versus free spirit spender versus savor experience versus things uh quality over

quantity or verses i shouldn't say over um

abundance versus scarcity safety versus

status which is why you want money is it safe to your status and the seventh is on giving so it's more calculated or emotional giver which one you are okay so those are big and then the childhood classrooms i think that those are really fun there's four of them of understanding how you grew up with money so money was communicated in two ways in a household it's communicated verbally and it's communicated emotionally so the first money classroom

is the anxious money classroom and this is where it's verbally closed and emotionally stressed you can feel in the air but it's not talked about that's right so you probably felt tension at the end of the month when bills were paid but you didn't know why but tension around money classroom number two is the unstable money classroom so this is where it's verbally open but emotionally stressed

so if you grew up in this classroom you heard fights about money your parents may have fought with extended family members about money they may have had the same money fight over and over and over again but man it was loud and you knew it was happening classroom number three is the unaware money classroom so this is where it's verbally closed but emotionally calm so never talked about

but it wasn't an issue and so your head was probably in the sands people that grew up in this classroom really didn't even think about money until they were out on their own and they realized oh wow i have to learn a lot and i have a little bit of catching up to do and then that classroom number four the last one is the healthiest money classroom

and it's where it's verbally open and emotionally calm so you could have ten dollars in this classroom you could have 10 million but it's the matter that it is being controlled there's a plan in place it's agreed upon if you're if you have parents that were still together and it was just it was calm but it was also talked about money was talked about and communicated so that's

the fourth money question that i really want to push the reader to move currently to with their family now but looking back to your own childhood to say okay here's how i grew up because every single one of them come with some red flags of okay this is this is an area i'm probably gonna have to overcome because of my childhood classroom yeah and most people don't grow up in

the fourth one no most don't no i was on a show yesterday and they had their whole staff speaking in which was so fun on the youtube show um and the host grew up in classroom two her husband grew up in classroom one uh that we had one of each of them which was so interesting one of her producers was classroom three and actually one of the girls was classroom four

and her and i both because that's i would say i grew up there somewhat classroom two but i don't remember that because you said there was a lot of stress but i was born the year of the bankruptcy um but really even that classroom four just because your parents are smart with money doesn't it's not a gene you're not automatically gonna be smart with money you have to work at

it too and it's that classic larry burkett line that you spend the first five to seven years of your marriage trying to obtain the same standard of living as your parents but it took your parents 30 years to get there so there can be a little bit of a level of entitlement in that classroom for if you're not careful so when you're in classroom four you still have to be safeguarding that okay

i still have to be making decisions on my own i still have to be working hard and it's up to me and my hard work to stay in that classroom for yeah nobody's gonna do it for you you're what's known as a grown-up now yeah so yeah so that's a i think it's always interesting to think about how you grew up and how it affects you and what's fascinating too is talking to people people either mirror what their parents did unintentionally or

they have a visceral response and they do the complete opposite they do the complete opposite so it's good just just to be aware that's true with parenting style that's true there's a lot of things yeah yeah the book is know yourself know your

money by number one best-selling author rachel cruz this will be her third best seller

uh discover why you handle money the way you do and what to do about it know yourself know your money it is on bookstore shelves now it is available we

are doing a virtual book tour a virtual uh launch rachel's doing a

hundred and some-odd media appearances in about a four-day period of time including good morning america in the morning be sure you tune that in at about 8 20. she'll be on we're doing a virtual

launch party for the book you can join rachel on january the 6th that's wednesday and january the 7th that's thursday both at 7 p.m at rachelcruze.com live just go to rachelcruise.com there'll be a live feed there and you can ask her your money questions so join her you can sign up for the uh uh

you know for the launch party or be there january the 6th or 7th at 7 p.m jump in rachelcrews.com

make it part of your lineup we are also working to help you get started on your new year this year and after 2020 everybody needs a reset we need to relook we need to reset emotionally reset financially reset everything and if you want to reset we're doing it this coming tuesday night and so lots of things going on all of this that we've mentioned so far is free

so be sure you check it out we're doing a reset event live from oklahoma city rachel cruz chris hogan me and pastor craig groschel we'll be doing it from his church at lifechurch.tv rachel will be speaking i'll know yourself know your money pastor craig on discipline chris hogan and i are going to walk you through the whole reset process and the steps to take exactly what to do

this is a 100

free live stream it is next tuesday night january the 12th at 7 p.m this coming tuesday night

january the 12th at 7 00 p.m

and uh just go to dave ram you can to to

register for the free live stream you do need to register or it's not going to happen for you uh text the word reset two three three

seven eight nine that's three three

seven eight nine and for those of you in oklahoma city we have a few seats just a handful uh they're only twenty dollars and they may be gone by now uh but of course it's limited because of distancing and all those kinds of things to meet the guidelines and stuff so go to dave ramsey.com events and see

if there's any seats available if you're in the oklahoma city area we'd love to have you come out tuesday january the 12th for this reset live stream with four well

four people who are well known for speaking on these subjects i guess that's the best way to say it this is the dave ramsey show

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[Music]

[Music]

rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the dave ramsey show open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five

josh is with us josh is in mount vernon ohio hi josh welcome to the dave ramsey show thank you for having me how are you guys doing today better than we deserve what's up i have a question for you guys uh my wife and i finally finished off while we're finishing off this friday for baby step two yay long did that take thanks uh 26 months all right good for

you thanks um so we are moving in and we're

going to be doing our baby step 3 which

is saving you know our uh three months for our emergency fund

and we also are home owners uh at the time it wasn't a very wise decision to purchase a house because we went with a three percent conventional for a thirty year um with a rate of 4.125 percent

we're going to get to a place where we want to refinance with rates being what they are around 2.2 to 2.9 percent in our area

and i did not know if it would be best to go through getting the full leaf under three months saved first and then save up separately yeah because you don't have enough equity to roll your closing costs into your refinance do you

i'd say no if you don't and i don't think you do probably because you didn't put enough down uh so i imagine i would imagine you can't if you can roll it in you can do it whenever you want but if you've got a cash flow you're closing costs you've got to do that after your emergency fund is done okay so let's treat that more like a 3b

it would just be something you purchase while you're doing four five and six like if you bought a couch or you upgraded a car or you did something else in this case it's closing costs on the loan okay but let me tell you how i did that uh from a critical thinking standpoint okay

okay if it's not an emergency

it doesn't go before the emergency fund

yeah that's how i put it after the emergency fund this is this is a good idea but it's not an emergency okay so even

if rates fluctuate a little bit which i'm sure they will still better than the 4.125 exactly but definitely wait until after we're done the number of times rates move more than one percent in a four or five month period of time is almost zero

okay they'll move an eighth a quarter something like that one direction or another but they just really don't move that much that dramatically and you're gonna be done with that baby step three pretty quick well done sir yeah pretty good i mean but you would say just still go ahead start baby step four though like start funding retirement yeah i mean i'm okay if you did it as a baby step three b yeah yeah

you know treat it and treat it like a down payment thing if you want to but it's not an emergency right because see let's let's say you took five thousand dollars and that's the only five thousand dollars you had and you need a refi and then the transmission goes out on your car and you lose your job and there's a pandemic right you're screwed you know and

so that's how you know that it would have been a bad idea that's right you run it through a stress test yes a hypothetical stress test in your mind and then you can tell oh i should have done the emergency fund first it's more important than saving a couple points or or a quarter of a point on my interest rate by letting it ride a little bit

and that's the interesting thing about money and talking about it in this way because it all it sometimes trumps math right like the idea of like well interest rates and they could fluctuate uh and it's not a math problem no it's not it's safeguarding and continuing to put that strong financial foundation under you yeah and you know in that same light baby steps one two and three are

you defy everything you you put math

aside you use the debt snowball you stop your 401k even with a match you um you know you defy all the mathematics but expensive expenses your house is on fire yeah you're in debt and you have no money you are an accident looking for a place to happen you are normal in america and normal sucks 78 of americans live paycheck to paycheck don't live that way so one through three is

the house is on fire so you don't we don't sit and discuss theory when the house on fire you get your butt out of the house and you get that you get yourself out of debt and you get that emergency fund in place then when you break through baby step three that's when you cannot be gazelle intense anymore and instead of intense you're intentional and you start saying okay now

we got to start talking about retirement kit four we gotta start talking about kids college five we gotta start talking about paying off the house six we gotta upgrade this couch this spring is sticking me in my butt every time i sit down here we gotta get a car it's awful this beater we've been driving while we were getting out of debt is horrible it's time to get a car that doesn't have a name

you know and so on right and so you you start moving up in a few things here or there but you're careful and you're intentional but you don't have to live on beans and rice rice and meats oh by the way that's when you would go on vacation is only after baby step three and that's when you'd go out to eat is only after baby step three

you shouldn't be going out to eat i know people think i've lost my dad gum mine but let me tell you what when you have a pandemic hit and you have no freaking money because you've been in restaurants you look like a freaking fool because you are you shouldn't have been going out to eat you spent all your dad gum money in a restaurant yeah and i don't mind going out to eat

i love going out to you you love going out to eat the ramsays love to eat we are we are social animals

but um i'm getting an email to commercial break from my wife about going out to eat with another couple you know i mean this is normal but it but the problem is when you're broke it's foolish because it is not economics

that causes you to eat out it you know 90 of what you spend at a stinking restaurant is not the food you could have bought all that food for 10 or 15 at the store and gone home and cooked it oh and then made four other meals after that well yeah the cookie yes a whole bunch yeah and then got leftovers in the whole bed god help me for sharing ramsay but um her leftovers oh she's still after

all these years but um like we can't afford home with food i'm like mom those green beans there's like no one else now i want to eat like no one else stop it but um so yeah but the the the uh the point is

is that you need to treat the first three like you're in an emergency like it's on fire and then after that you're intentional which means you're thoughtful you're thinking about okay if i do that i won't be able to do this and what's more important would i rather do my kids college than that couch or whatever you know we got to get a couch it's ridiculous um family's not been on vacation in five years we're gonna spend a reasonable amount

and go on do a decent little vacation of some kind if you could find a state that's open and um whatever

right yes you can start you can you know you you don't relax to the point that you go back to stupid land but you relax to the point that you can enjoy a few of the creature comforts again when you're in four five and six yep but that idea though that it's so behavior-based especially baby steps one through three it's not the math thing like we're talking about earlier like it really is it's your behavior and getting ahead and

what ends up happening when you actually get traction for the first time in your life and by the way it's not just a ramsey thing it's not something dave ramsey or the ramsey organization came up with it's a data thing i mean when we study millionaires the way they became millionaires was not math it was managing behavior

none of them were i mean virtually none

of them 90 something percent of them were not uber sophisticated had the figure had figured out the idea of how to get rich at bitcoin or how to get rich or beat the card game in vegas or they weren't day traders or they weren't they weren't they didn't spend their whole lives with their nose in a mutual fund book they didn't do any of that they just loaded up their 401k paid off their house

and they really did not were not very sophisticated a lot of them weren't that super efficient with their math with the math on the investing they didn't spend a whole bunch of time studying it sometimes they had an investment advisor sometimes they didn't but they didn't sit and wring their hands over the 12 b1 fees in a mutual fund and they didn't set no load versus load

the great comparison they didn't go through all that crap they just put money away get it yes did it while everybody else is talking about their freaking theories and they're broke these guys go and do it it's a do it

thing it's a behavior thing and

that is what makes people wealthy and what gets you away from the wolf's door and stuff when stuff like a pandemic hits yeah and it's the long game there's no short-term fix no yeah beverly seals said it no shortcut to any place worth going

that's a great quote this is a good quote no shortcut to any place it's worth it takes the time but it's worth it yeah it's you know there's not a pill to make you lose weight and there's not a pill to get you out of debt there's not a microwave you just got to freaking do it this is the dave ramsey show

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[Music]

in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage joshua and julia are with us hey

guys welcome happy new year happy new year you're the first in person debt-free scream of the year awesome awesome well done i love it how much have you paid off 347 000

um in six and a half years roughly

wow and your range of income during that time of 155 000 to 250 000.

cool what do you guys do for a living i'm a nurse in ethicist i stay home with kids okay great and i'm going to guess with the length of time and the amount of money you paid off your house we sure did it

i've been waiting so long to hear you say that people are in front of me that's right so what's this house worth right around 350 000.

okay and it's yours it's all right bye guys i love it way to go you guys i love

mowing the grass every blade is ours because it's yours that's how that works i love it i'm so proud of y'all how old are you i'm 35 33 and you're paid for house yes sir you are officially weird man how many 35 year old friends do you have with a paid for house a lot of them tell us to not do it yeah

that's crazy okay so what made you do this like i understand that getting out of debt but it's like we're gonna just we're gonna hit the gear and pay off the house right so we're both fbu babies i grew up on the envelope system and josh did a seventh grade algebra homework from the back of the fbu classroom so it was a no-brainer obviously to pay off

the student loans as soon as soon as he graduated from anesthesia school and we took a little bit of a break started a family and then it came to where we needed to decide do we put an extra sum of money toward retirement or do we pay off the house and of course we got a lot of people saying why would you pay off your house don't pay off your house at that time

we were leading an fpu course and through that we became more accountable to the dave ramsey plan and we became more of a team budget meetings were more of a joy than a burden or a dread and it we were always exciting to me

nerd free spirit let's just establish it

and so um with uh with leading that class we decided all right we're going to pay off the house but even at that point i was i was a supporter but i wasn't an equal partner in in the process

so i wasn't really gung-ho about it until about february of 2019 when we had

received a late advent calendar from our friends in germany and we're all sitting in the living room floor pouring over these german chocolates and goodies when josh said how would you guys like to take a trip to germany which of course the response was i bribed them

i think i needed a bribe this response was yeah yeah we want to go to germany and he said all right when when we pass the house we'll go to germany well so at that point we became we became full partners

in this and um so the interesting part

though is when god came into it um the very next month we we had decided obviously to pay off the house but whenever i was starting to do the numbers like i always do i realized that that was going to be a lot of money to pay off 198 000 in about well it was january 2000

we're going to do it by january 2021 yeah that was the date we decided at that time that february of 2019 um

we had 198 000 left in the house and i was like this is this is outrageous how in the world we're going to do this so i started talking to god and i said god if you don't mind just give us more work not more money more work and um that very next month in march i

had five co-workers that put in their notice to leave oh my god and i sat down with her and i said i'm not sure if god sent them out of my work but it is an opportunity for me to get all the overtime i could and so i'm amped all my every vacation i

had for the last two years uh every post-call day which i have most of them off i worked all of them many saturdays i worked and uh so i have not been part of jeremiah's life pretty much in my um so for that whole 18 months uh it was

gung-ho yeah and uh so god provided um

that opportunity for us and we got it done in time actually four months early i guess wow i mean while we're learning german so that we can keep them accountable to his part of the plan his bribe yeah the kids are really that

was a pretty heavy sacrifice all those hours it was uh but now you're 35 years old with a paid-for home was it worth it i would never go back yeah absolutely uh the hardest part was uh just

parenting is hard enough alone or in and of itself but parenting alone is even harder and it felt like that some nights when i was the only one tucking them in bed most of my hours were 24 hours at 16 to 24 hour shifts i mean i'm i'm working call and and then getting up the next morning and working 10 12 16 hours so it wasn't just like monday through friday seven to five

it was constant but because because we paid off our house we were able to say yes to an opportunity that we would have just not even batted our eyes at so uh august september or august somewhere around there when i got the money because i was waiting for it when the money came into the check checking account to be able to pay the house off that morning

when it came in i got a call an hour later from my buddy who went into school anesthesia school with me asking me for if i would like to interview for a job about 45 minutes away from my job now i accepted the job um pretty much a week

later and i am now home with my family so much more and i didn't really sacrifice my pay at all i actually got a bit of a pay raise wow so without the hours without the other hours i actually feel like it was god saying okay you asked for the time of work and now i'm going to close it out with a another huge gift wow and

so we are extremely grateful to be here today here's the cupcake here's some icing yeah i like it he was faithful for sure amen that's powerful dude and you know

the way we know that's god for those of you who don't know anything about god is the timing is wacky there's no other way to explain

it that just generally happened in the middle of this then you could blame it on coincidence or something like that if you believed in that kind of stuff but this is like i need some more work okay here's some work and i just finished paying off the house oh here's the same amount of money for less work and covert never did slow us down yeah we picked up more hours during that time

so yeah it was a blessing oh you guys that's incredible i mean absolutely incredible people stand on the stage that are all ranges of age but seeing young people without a mortgage payment like you guys like that's insane absolutely insane and and it was

it was a short-term sacrifice right like we don't always say to go gazelle intense through those baby steps but you chose to which is great in that short amount that 18 months which girl three kids i can't even i know i like the same as you i'm like oh so bathtime's the worst like i know it's so hard yeah but that short-term sacrifice and now the freedom

the absolute freedom to even pull back more if you wanted right i mean just nothing it's awesome and in the middle of that somebody was leading financial peace university classes what do you tell them in the class when they ask okay

yeah but you make a lot of money what's the secret to getting out of that my dad has always told me you're going to spend as much as you make you're going to spend it in for us our priority was in the house but for a lot of people it's things that they can't even really remember what they spend it on um so it's just being focused um

you got to determine a plan and i highly encourage bringing your wife on board as well um it is a it's a marriage uh you can't

do it alone and once she when she committed with the germany bribe once she committed it there was nothing stopping her so when are you going to germany well we were going to go this year but it's going to be 2022 because that's when this lady that we're friends with is going to get married so we're going to be there for her marriage for her wedding awesome now

then you'll have a thorough understanding of the german language by the time you get there yeah oh yeah we'll be fluent all right bring the three kiddos in and introduce them their names and ages or what go on guys josiah is six mm-hmm

and jeremiah's two almost two and we've gotta we gotta tell y'all a little bit about them so uh one day when i was gone josh

took the kids and made a paper chain with them each link representing a thousand dollars that we had left on the house and each time we made a payment it wasn't it was a family affair we went through our ritual of making the payment on the computer as a family and cutting off the appropriate amount of chains and it was a great visual but now that i stand here on the stage i think about how debt has you in chain count it down

before we run out of time all right let's hear your death

cry we're dead

[Applause] well done you guys that's as good as celebrations i've had a long time wow precious amazing amazing amazing

well done well played this is the dave ramsey show

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our scripture of the day ephesians 4 29 let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths but only such

as is good for building up as

fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear amy poehler said limit your always

and your nevers

yeah i don't agree with that limit your

always and your nevers don't never get too extreme limit the time you say always and the time that you say never's never unless you're just being a drama queen but i mean there's some things you need to say never how many times have you disagree with the quotes almost never

i never disagree with you i always disagree with quotes because they're like i guess because she's saying because they're extremes yeah that's what she's trying to say but that my point is is that there are principles in your life that you should always stick to and some things you should never do it's fair i don't know i wish i had an

argument to play devil's advocate but i genuinely don't i agree with you one of your favorite sports is arguing with me so this is scary the first time i'm worried about you we need to we need to have your temperature checked

you're always fun to debate with oh it's good how many people push your buttons i can push your buttons hogan hogan and me argue all the time no on the airline like us yes we do yes we do he makes fun of me all the time for being bald hurts my feelings okay i'm sensitive that way open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five don't forget one week from today on tuesday january the 12th we will be doing the reset live stream it is a free live stream

with chris hogan rachel cruz craig groeschel and me it is time for you to hit the reset button it is time for you to get the step-by-step money plan to do the small things you need to do for 90 days that are going to show you how to get on track and get moving we're going to lay it all out for you so go to daveramsey.com reset and you can check out the whole thing having to do with ramsey plus and getting a free trial to it and if you want to view the

free reset live stream to kickstart your money goals for 2021 text the word reset two three three seven eight nine text reset two three three

seven eight nine there'll be a hundred two hundred fifty thousand folks watching that live stream that night based we've already got 65 000 and we have a week to go and it's free by the way tell people

about it tell your friends about it they can start off 2021 with the best minds on the subjects

of behavior and money behavior around

money all of that amy is with us in uh flint michigan hi amy how can we help

hi dave hi rachel hey how are you

good how are you good how can we help

so i had in the spring actually right

when coveted hit i had an issue with mold in my house

i have since got it fixed insurance covered it and everything but i have been diagnosed with mold toxicity so unfortunately i am working from home

and have been since about march and i

got a permanent position at home now

i have now found another mold spot in my

house that has to be taken care of so i'm not

really sure how to go about it you know my insurance mold coverage is maxed out so do i take out a loan

to take care of all the mold because my health comes first i mean i they're talking maybe up to ten

thousand dollars worth of damage

and i'm just not sure exactly how to go about it because i you know i'm trying to file your plan i know that you know i don't want to be slave to the lender i don't want to take out another loan but i know that my health comes first so i'm not really sure how to go about it

are you single i am

what's your household income

it's about 36. and you obviously own

this home yeah i have two roommates

what's the house worth

um probably about

130ish to 140.

[Music] and what do you owe on it

about 110.

so a ten thousand dollar loan when you make thirty six thousand dollars a year is what's known as a lot of money

yeah okay

well i i don't wanna put your health in jeopardy and i don't know enough about you being diagnosed with mold toxicity as far as i understood we all have mold toxicity um so it's new to me that some people haven't some don't i don't know i'm not being smart like i just don't know i know it's not good for anybody uh is my point and so if you've got a special uh level

of sensitivity to it which is i suspect what you're saying um then obviously it escalates the situation i've been doing this show 30 years and i've been put personally in a whole bunch of corners where the it looked like the only way i was borrowing money but i a long time ago gave up the idea of borrowing money so i can't recommend you borrow money so i have to recommend something else

because i wouldn't do it myself and i especially wouldn't do it if i made thirty six thousand dollars a year and one borrow ten thousand dollars for the second go-round of mold on the same stinking house i'd sell this house and move

this is to come up again what are you going to do next time it's ten thousand dollars

i mean this house has got a mold problem or for some reason it's got a susceptibility to a new area of the house amy like why didn't they fix it in the first place yeah yeah this is a whole new area that's what i would say i would say you didn't fix it well the insurance max out but you didn't fix the problem i had mold in my house and now i still have mold in my house so like that's on them they they need to fix it in my opinion

yeah i know but they had a they had a certain amount they were the insurance company had a cap your homeowner's mold coverage only went up to a certain amount yeah but that they needed to explain that to her then to say we can only fix x amount it's like they didn't even find the other stuff well she knew she might you knew you maxed out your insurance on

the first repair right yeah and i didn't find this new spot until um just last week yeah but and the point is though that it's uh if ten thousand dollars is correct

that was a pretty substantial miss rachel's saying by the mold people i mean if there's a ten thousand dollars worth of mold damage and you finished work just a few months ago they missed something right

it had to already be there yeah this one was kind of hidden in the attic and i don't know if they really did enough checking in the attic before yeah yeah they missed it so um you know i don't know

what it means to your health if you can afford to live there for a little while without damaging your health i don't know that i don't know how to explain that i know that dave and sharon ramsey had a lot of different things come up that felt like they were impossible situations and we were put in a corner where we had to make horrible choices uh but to avoid debt

and never going back again we made those choices and now 20 years later we're extremely prosperous because we made those choices well and what it does amy when you kind of make that line in the sand and you just say no matter what we're not borrowing money that forces you to see other options

and then you get creative and then you say you know what maybe i will just sell the house or maybe i'm gonna get out and have the roommates help i mean you start to actually look at different options versus just yielding to debt when you have that stance and so the fact that you're a little bit you're kind of wish you washed a little bit in your questions maybe your career maybe you've got to work on your career

because you don't make any money and you know you got to work on maybe you're going to be working outside the home uh to make more money and um

that would be okay too uh because you're you know average household income is 59 000 in america and i'm not picking on you i'm not shaming you for what you're making i'm just saying that long term uh

five years from now what are you going to be doing that makes use 80 000 a year instead of 36 and you need to be

aiming at that and that might be part of the fix for this ten thousand dollar problem it might be the extra job that you take on and you go make ten thousand dollars in a couple of months and uh you work your tail end off over the next three months and you make ten thousand bucks and you pay cash for this fix that's okay with me if

you wanna do that uh if you can survive your health for three for those three months i don't i don't know how sensitive this situation is but if it's super sensitive to where you're going to be seriously ill in the next 30 days out of the house then you need to move and you need to put the house up for sale and you need to not try to try to fix a moldy house all

the time let's just move on that puts this hour of the dave ramsey showing the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ

[Music]

jesus [Music]

you

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## 170. The Dave Ramsey Show (Replay from November 20, 2020)


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| **Video ID** | `MNPfY1g4uCc` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNPfY1g4uCc) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:32:03 |

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welcome to the dave ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm dr john dolone here

with my good friend and world famous co-host mr anthony

o'neill anthony how are we doing hey man i i really appreciate that intro man i mean i didn't pay you for that i thought you were a local talent you are not you are worldwide john man you are amazing right now keep going i'm i'm i'm following in your footsteps my good man you blaze the trail but we are here to take your calls on life and money give us a shout at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five you got

anything planned coming up no man uh right now it's just a beautiful time i'm enjoying the day enjoying tomorrow looking forward to play some golf tomorrow and he knows last one in the last weekends before we can actually uh get into some cold weather and so i

don't play golf with anything less than 50 degree weather so man i love sitting next to a good fair weather fan good fair weather sports person man all right let's get to the phones let's go to jonathan in pensacola florida jonathan good afternoon how are we how we doing good afternoon gentlemen thanks for taking my call yeah you bet how can we help i'm a 21 year old business

and admin student that is nearing the conclusion of my academic career and preparing to launch into full-time work life over the past two decades my parents have helped me to build a substantial savings account into which i've placed every paycheck to earn since i was 15 years old i have no debt and have not owned a credit card to date i plan to after finishing college and

then willing and able to pay cash for the vehicle my parents advised me to reach out to you to inquire if financing a small portion of the vehicle purchase dollar amount and paying it off soon thereafter would be the best way to start building a credit score your advice is most appreciated ah man i appreciate it uh you sound like a very sharp young man

let's just say that educated um your

grammar is 10 times better than mine 20 times better than mine jonathan you're an impressive guy you know i'm saying you have a lot how much money do you have saved up right now jonathan i have an excess of 20 000 in my savings

account goodness gracious okay 20 thousand dollars you're going to graduate debt-free yeah what kind of car are you thinking about buying john yes i'm thinking of buying a toyota corolla my family is on those and it's a very a wise decision from what i've seen esteve toyota products are very very reliable products what year you think thinking about buying i used by the time i would be buying a vehicle

it would be at least two one or two years old i want to get used so i don't get hit with depreciation wise man wise man so let let me ask you this question uh because your question is a fair question and i want you to think about this answer if you have

cash why do you need a credit score

good question uh my parents were talking

about uh to me because i have

plans alone eventually i'm currently

21 years old but i'd like to get an apartment and like to buy a house when i'm older and i know that you need a credit score for both of those things that's the reason for my question if it would be wise to take out a small loan for how i could pay cash

and just pay that off that way i can start building a credit score at my very young age cool so let me help you out jonathan when i was your age man at 21 22 years old my honest was about 18 19.

um i had a new mindset at 21. um i thought the same thing that i have to have a credit score one to be a young man two to be successful three so i can get an apartment or um a mortgage and what i did just

like you i said hey let me get a 500 credit card uh so i can be a young man so i can get my credit score up so i can get an apartment easy so i can get a mortgage eventually and that was the wrong decision for myself and so with you calling into the show i just want to hit you up on on some game a little bit you do not need a credit score to be successful number one you do not need a credit score to get

an apartment number two and you do not need a credit score to get a mortgage now let me be honest with you on the flip side with you not having a credit score will you have to put down maybe a little bit more money on your apartment yes instead of you paying the first month rent you're going to pay first month and last month rent and some people may require extra deposit

but that's fine because you sit with money in a bank account when you go grow up and you are ready to get a mortgage there are some things called a manual underwriting or non-traditional credit scores or no credit score lending and what these banks would do is they will pull up your previous apartment and ask you the proof ask you for proof showing that you've paid your apartment on time showing that you've paid

this on time and so to answer your question uh

to be fair with your question no i would go pay cash for the car and instead of forgetting one to two years i would do like a three to four year old car and that's what i just recently did bought a four-year-old vehicle and saved me a lot of money and then from there here's how you're going to win jonathan because i think you're going to be a homeowner within

the next three to five years i am okay with you financing a home uh when it comes to a 15-year fixed rate and putting 10 to 20 down i want you to keep the same mindset that you have right now with saving your money and living below your means and as long as you come up with 10 to 20 percent down you will find a bank that will finance

you and give you a home mortgage and you will have to look around to find some apartment complexes but john this is the same mindset that a lot of people have you know especially in this age bracket that i have to have a credit score uh to be successful and and to get into an apartment no now there will be some that will tell them no we will

we cannot rent to you and that's that's okay but there are several apartment complexes when they see you have no debt you got 20 000 an account they will rent to them that's right and jonathan you are already setting the stage for what's going to be an uncommon life yeah right you are a planner you are

thinking things through you've got cash in the bank it's a 21 year old you're going to graduate debt free as a 21 year old you are way you're already weird yes

right and so you're joining a gang of weird people living weird and i don't want you to subscribe to traditional living when it comes to

being a slave to the fico score getting in line behind everybody else doing the same things no man you're different jonathan and hey here's the deal your parents love you they love you they're trying to do the best they can by you and so we don't need to hate on them we don't need to say mom and dad you're an idiot no they're not they're trying to

the best they can and you called into the show and you got some different wisdom you're way ahead of the game man yeah and tell your mom and dad to watch this show watch this segment with dr d and myself and then also to just go do some research but i want to encourage you brother nearly 48 of the people in the world today can't afford a 400 emergency

this young man got 20 thousand

dollars sitting there account i can guarantee you there are millions and millions and millions of grown adults with families that don't have 20 000 in a checking account jonathan you're head of the game my man yes i want to jump through the screen screen and just hug you bro like i'm so pumped right now young man with this kind of money get yourself a great he's already down on the corolla man that's what i'm saying jonathan you got to start it off right today listen america get a corolla

put some money in the bank this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

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[Music]

this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined by my co-host and good friend anthony o'neil we are taking your calls about life and money triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to jenny in seattle washington jenny how are we doing this afternoon

all right guys it's good to meet you in person um i am a longtime listener first time caller and i have kind of an emotional versus

financial question for you my mom passed away in september from

cancer and um thank you

it's it's been really hard to lose her i'm an only child and we've always been very close and i've i'm also a single parent myself

and have been my son's whole life so she was a very strong goal for both of us

and um so that's that's been really tough um especially this year she did leave me

enough financially to pay off the

remainder of my debt i was in that baby step and have maybe about two years left on my own plan and now i'm debt-free and have some liquidity i didn't have previously and is leading me to consider quitting my job i i love the job that i do i'm an accounting manager but it's very high stress and demanding and i've only been able to take about one week off after my mom's debts and

heading into my busy season it's just it's overwhelming um she also left me her house in addition to some liquid assets and trying to just

unwind her house and decide what to do with it and get it in order and just find time to process grief i'm finding

myself considering quitting and i'm a certified management

accountant if i were to go get my master's degree i could get my cpa certified public accountant license

and move into public accounting which is also very demanding but built to better allow time off than the private industry i'm in and i just don't want to make poor financial choices i i doing what i do for a living i generally know the best choices and listening to the show but i'm very emotional and urban in my decisions right now and just wanted to call in since

you guys really cover both of those ends of the spectrum yeah well thank you so much for your trust and for your call yeah let's start with the money part here yeah break it down from for me a little bit more jenny how much are you getting within the inheritance yeah so liquid is about

hundred and fifty thousand three hundred of that is in an inherited ira so i'll have to drain that over the next ten years with the care back yes and then the rest is just uh brokerage and cash accounts uh also looking me her house it's got no mortgage on it and it's worth a little under 500k i went ahead and had um

an appraisal done to protect some capital gains in the future if i do have to sell it but i emotionally i'd like to keep it i just haven't thought through what makes sense with that yet um

so you're looking at almost a million dollars an inheritance right now between yeah yep house and she also

left behind um she she wrote knitting

pattern books for a living and so she's left behind her digital assets and the business and that they will continue to sell and at a lower volume than what uh

when she was alive of course but that will be a continued income stream in the future yeah and so right now from a financial perspective you're in a good healthy place you said you're dead freak all right yep okay and you do you already have a fully funded emergency fund i do okay cool great and then you're already living in a house that you want to live in for the next few years

yeah now i have two houses all of a sudden and that's i love it it's hard to know what to do there here's something i want to do here's something i'm going to recommend that is i believe it's really going to be up to you i think right now you have a great heart i want john to talk into the emotional side because i think the practical side

when it comes to the finances you have now here's something that i would recommend from a uh financial practical perspective since she that's your mom's house and you want to keep that from an emotional uh standpoint rent it you know maybe fix it up make it uh look real nice you're sitting on 500 a thousand dollars um fix it up and rent it out let it generate

you and your family some income then what i would do is i would jump on the phone with one of our smart investors and tell them hey i got five hundred and fifty thousand dollars three hundred this is gonna be coming from a mutual fund um and i just wanna make sure i gotta pull it out but what can i reinvest that into uh to make me some more money

we don't have enough time to really dissect that here on the phone call but i would definitely recommend that you do that but i mean and honestly take a little bit of that and maybe treat you and your family out somewhere but i would definitely jump on the phone

and figure out out of this 550 what can i do with 450 000 of that to turn that into a million down the road and then the 500 000 in the house you know i'm gonna sit here how can i fix that up a little bit get it rentable and then rent that out and allow that to generate on some extra income for my family not but

before we do this we do have to make sure we're in a healthy place emotionally right so jenny you said something that stuck out to me and i think it's going to be the foundation by which you make all other decisions and that is you got a week off yeah

and then you had to get right back into it and the guy who raised me on crisis

response was also somebody that i went to as a personal mentor and when i had a personal tragedy i was also in um in the hunt for another job

and he gave me some wisdom that has con i've continued to live by which is now that you've had this tragedy you will make no major decisions for six months to a year yep until you're well because any and

all decisions you're going to make are going to be emotion-based decisions they're going to be running from not two right you found yourself flushed with cash you have found yourself in a unique situation that you didn't foresee but you also haven't dealt with the grief of your mom and so before you go quit your job that man you may have just that may be a great thing to do you've got cash to go get yourself a master's degree to to move yourself into a different situation that'd be awesome um

but until you fully have that lined out until you've actually processed your mom's grief and it's not going to go away in six months right that's going to be a you know an ongoing thing right until you've got some a platform for you and your your child as a single mom until you've got those things lined out i recommend don't jump jump don't jump ship because i don't want

you to find yourself a month from now or two months from now the smoke is clearing from the crazy season right and yep you've spent some money

and you're a semester into a graduate program and then you're going to be thinking what did i do right and so do this

do you have a group of folks that you can talk to do you have a friend do you have a couple of folks that you are in regular connection with out there in seattle i do yeah how have they supported you through this this time uh hearing me

literally hearing me talk it out and that kind of thing and support i my company's big enough

we're multi-state and have about 400 employees that there's leave options in place

there is no backup for my role so i have this intense sense of responsibility i really cling to the areas i own at work and

it's all deadline driven and tax filing and audits and year-end and i just i there's literally no person trained to cover that if i'm out

for more than a week and um i'm new in

my current role this year i've been there eight years i've worked my way up to this i've had the same boss for that period and he's been good and he's newly in a cfo role and it's obviously been a very challenging here for all businesses so i have this intense sense of not being able to let go because there's nobody to unload it on so i feel as if those leave policies don't apply to me but listen listen the person you're

unloading it on is you the person you're unloading it on is your is your kid yep the person you're unloading it on is those men and women who love you and care for you there in seattle and so for the next few the next few months the next few seasons your work does not get your first fruits you do your work doesn't get your

heart and soul your child does and that's going to mean

talking to your boss and having a if he's a he's a new leader he's a new cfo it's time for him to step up and he's going to find out what leadership's all about because his rock star his anchor is going to come to him and say i'm not well i need to process my mom i need 60 days i need 30 days and i know it's in

the year i know it's busy and i know it's not it's an inopportune time and you're going to find out if this is the company you're going to work for a long term or this is a company that you don't want to be a part of but it's right now it's time for you to to turn the dial back and look in the mirror and say jenny's worth investing in my family's worth investing in

and i need to grieve that wonderful wonderful mom who raised me and cared for me and my son what a blessing spend some time on you take that leaf policy and let the rest go this is the dave ramsey show [Music]

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined here by my co-host and good friend anthony o'neal let's go to rebecca out in buffalo new york rebecca how's it going hey i'm great how are you outstanding how can we help today good well i had a question about boundaries i've listened to your show quite a bit and i hear you talk a lot about setting boundaries especially with family and especially around the holidays um but i was just wondering if you could maybe address um how to be on the flip side of that when

somebody sets a boundary that makes the rest of the family kind of uncomfortable and awkward hey this is the first time i've ever been asked the other side of the boundary question i love this rebecca anthony it's going to be good all right go for it rebecca well my sister um is kind of going through like a bit of a i don't know midlife crisis or something

and she's she's made it very clear to the rest of the family that she's not willing to talk to any of us about anything that's going on in her life and we're not allowed to ask her any personal questions at all okay and so i'm kind of dreading might be too strong of

a word but i'm not really looking forward to like thanksgiving sitting around the table you know all of us all together and none of us are allowed to have

a kind of conversation with her um you

know we got to constantly filter like is this too personal is she going to get mad if i ask this what about this you know what what about just not asking her questions that just seems rude well

it would be except that she told you don't ask me any questions about my life

and is it going to be annoying yes and

is it fair for you to say hey we get that you asked us not to do this this is new for us and so we're going to ask you to remind us right because we're going to forget we're going to stumble over this because we love you and care about you but we want to respect that you've said don't ask us any questions and so we're going to try if we forget if we lean over during dinner and we just ask this one question and then just give us a hand signal say

i really don't want to talk about that give us some grace and i think you deserve that right but at the end of the day it sounds like she's made uh thanksgiving a little bit easier and she has said this part's off limits and it's annoying and it's frustrating but it kind of is what it is what do you think anthony but rebecca i want to ask this question too what did she say is off-limits specifically did she say her life or this part of my life

um well i mean like we can talk about like our childhood like you know childhood memories and stuff like that but it's just like we're all concerned about her and what she's going through is she dating someone y'all don't like or is she working at a job you don't like her what's the thing we don't we don't know

um she's she's still she's still married

but she's not with her husband um she moved to a different state and i'm not sure what state she has a job that i don't know anything about um i don't even know what she's doing right now so here's a here's a great gift you can give her yeah and i hope everybody hears this

often when we love people and they're going through pain the way we love to lean into that pain and this is this is coming from a good place most of the time not always but most of the time is we want to give them our wisdom our

experience and our advice and one of the greatest gifts you can give to somebody who's hurting is your presence and just your

sitting next to them until they invite you in to hey what should i do here because my guess is your sister's struggling with shame your sister's struggling with you her fancy sister rebecca's got a great marriage and everything's working out awesome and mom and dad don't like fill in the blank

and so instead of leaning into hey i

really want to know what's going on so i could help you she has said in a roundabout way the way you can help me is sit by me at thanksgiving and let's not get into that kind of stuff i just want to be with you guys the fact that she's showing up i want to give her the benefit of the doubt there the easier thing probably would have been to not come at all and so she's coming and the greatest gift you can give her is distraction laughter and warmth and

presence and my guess is if you give her that those things equate to safety and when suddenly she doesn't feel judged by you she feels safe then she's going to slowly say hey here's my situation right and so the the challenge for you is going to not be to bang your head and your arms and legs and elbows and knees up against that boundary that she's put up and instead 100 respect it

and just give her joy and peace

and once she invites you in then you can slowly give your opinions and thoughts and insights what do you think anthony i'm gonna play

the devil's advocate on this for rebecca okay okay and i'm not and i'm saying this because i'm just i'm just saying like hey i'm gonna put i'm putting myself into your sister's shoes yeah um one of the key things that i

like thanksgiving is coming up and so i'm not looking forward to going to my family's house only because of one question what's that one question everyone's going to ask me john why are you still single that's right you know what i'm saying and to me my my respectful answer to them is it's none of your business so what if what if anthony you know what i'm saying what if you preemptively sent a note out to everybody and said this year

i don't want to talk about being single i love you guys and we're just going to talk about other things yeah and that's my thing like yo let's just have a conversation bro man congrats on the book or hey man i see you doing this like talk about something that is like what you said and inviting that it doesn't make me feel shameful because sometimes my family members i know they have the right intentions

and that they love me but sometimes when i hear when you're single well maybe you need to do a b there you go that's right i don't want to come around you because you want to give me your opinion but you don't live my life so we're saying the same thing yes we're saying the same yeah and so what i'm saying to you is rebecca like when

she comes hug your sister you know embrace your sister talk about your family talk about you know how good god has been to the whole family you know if if she if her hair is different compliment her hair girl what are you doing in the gym you look good give me that ingredient you know make her feel accepted make her feel welcomed and then i agree with john more than likely

she won't bring it up this time because she's fearful um of

if she does bring something up then everybody's gonna have an opinion because that happens to me every single thanksgiving and christmas my mama my sister my brother my brother-in-law even now my nephews uncle anthony you ain't married you know what i'm saying so i don't want

it to come up so your sister whatever hurt whatever's going on in her world she doesn't want to come up you know why because i i want to enjoy my family and i i don't want to feel like the odd one i don't want to feel like the one that is unhealthy in the situation because of this current part of my life so i would i'm not the expert this is

john's area i'm just you are an expert because you experience it right yeah you're in a practical perspective like you know hey sometimes we just want to go and just laugh and just eat all the turkey eat all the ham you know and just be unhealthy for a chance in a good way so rebecca can you do you have other brothers and sisters uh yes there's a brother between

the two of us yep so here's what i want you to do i want you to take the lead on this one yeah and i want you to reach out to your brother and say our sisters asked us not to talk

about certain things we have one goal and that is to laugh like we have never laughed before yes come up with funny stories write them down we're gonna proactively think of funny things from our childhood we're gonna proactively prank dad we're gonna proactively create an environment where she feels safe she feels totally welcome and here's the thing she may be involved in things y'all don't agree with

you i don't like you're worried about her if you create an environment of safety she'll invite you in absolutely she will eventually may not be that damn it probably won't be yeah probably won't be yeah but it will circle back and um and if it even if it never does

she has drawn a boundary and i love the fact rebecca you just made my heart feel good because all across the country i've heard this over and over and over people are for the first time anthony drawn boundaries yeah i'm worried about coving i'm not

coming or if you don't wear a mask i don't want you at my table or or or all these different boundaries are being drawn for the first time this year and if you're input if you're i mean if you're if your default setting is to run up and shove that boundary and see if it's going to hold you're just going to bring tension to thanksgiving we need no more tension yeah no more attention if somebody puts up a boundary even if you don't agree with it or believe in it honor them seek peace seek laughter

seek safety over thanksgiving rebecca good for you you're a good sister i love it this is the dave ramsey show

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hey good folks it's the most wonderful time of the year believe it or not christmas is just around the corner i can't even believe that anthony christmas is just around the corner you heard it here first you heard it here first as though it's gonna pop up on the calendar of a strange day no matter what this year has brought you christmas is still coming and to celebrate we're giving away cash all season long enter our ramsey

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very very cool let's go to amanda in lexington texas amanda how are we doing

i'm good how are you good deal how can we help today yeah my husband and i had an income increase this year which has allowed us to do a lot of our financial goals including baby step four let's go

wait so hold on amanda this has been the worst year ever in the history of the universe planet ever yes but you got extra income what happened my husband completed his master's degree and stepped into the position of nurse practitioner and oh boy way to go and you who've been

putting him through grad school and full-time you get to breathe a little bit now well sorta but i had the fourth baby this year so oh amanda good for you guys you all have been into it so how much how much was your uh your increase um so we went from about 60 to about 98.

okay so we have a 98 000 household

income in the year of 2020 correct yes yes okay so you've already maxed out

your babysitter number four which is investing 15 of your gross income um into a

401k or into a growth stock mutual fund invested into ira correct yes okay how much this is

where we kind of had the question because we're in a house right

now that we own i've been here almost five years and it we fit it's not

dire that we move but that is a goal um

hopefully in the next few years but then also we have four daughters

and i think my husband is starting to feel the crunch of saving for them and so that's probably not the only crunch he's feeling right now that's a lot of women in that house huh yes bless him he's a great girl daddy good for him yeah so just trying to figure out like how to balance whether we stay for the next down payment or even put like extra towards our current mortgage or whether to start accounts

you know for weddings and school and things like that for the girls or whatever to try to do both or

not and amanda i love this question uh because i think it's a it's a fair question to ask and this is the prob probably the most normal question we get when people get a significant pay raise they immediately start to look at how do i use this okay and i i think on one hand it's a fair question on the other hand it's for me i'm not asking myself how do

i use this i actually give myself two years in that significant pay raise before i make a a actual huge financial moves so prime example when i came here to join the speakers team my income went up significantly but i lived for literally about three

years yeah about three years on my youth pastor's salary before coming here that's how i was able to do the things financially i'm able to do now so what i'm going to recommend to you all is this how much money do you have in a savings account right now uh between 18 and 20 000. okay 18 to 20

000. if something was to happen right now with your husband um is that the minimum of three months of investments oh yeah okay great sounds

like it's a little bit more so great when we are already investing are you already investing into your your daughter's college fund no we haven't started that yet okay cool i would do that immediately

okay i will go ahead and start opening up um the how old are your daughters my oldest

is about to turn seven okay seven and then what what's the next one after that then five five okay two

and then two months two months okay so

what i would do is i would probably open up two 529s

talk to a smartvestor pro uh because the seven and five year old um are close so i would probably have two that we can possibly invest into but then the good thing about the 529s is they can roll down to your kids to your other kids okay so before i look into purchasing another home i want to go ahead and start thinking about legacy thinking about my kids college future and this way um once you start

funding that then i would start looking at okay in the next two years husband um let's go ahead and start looking into a home so once you start funding this 529 the college uh

plan i don't have a problem with you all going ahead and start setting aside some extra money to put down towards a home so here's a good thing start looking at the equity in your home right now because you're going to sell that to upgrade and then also start looking at how much money can you put down if you all can be there within the next year

and a half two years that is great but what i want you to do is make sure that you create some cushion because immediately when we get that extra money john we immediately want to spend that okay now we got the margin let's go get a bigger house no let's let's make sure that when we get the bigger house we still have that same margin because here's

the thing america hear me clearly when it comes to building wealth it's not your income it's margin how much margin do you

have to survive to live and to press on

you can make a million dollars and be broke you can make a hundred thousand dollars and be wealthy and do me a huge favor amanda

seven five

two in two months is that right yep yes

i'm gonna tell you to do something that i never do i i'm the super frugal one

right my brand new truck is an o6 right i'm i'm i'm annoying when it comes to being frugal okay but take a little bit of that money and you and your husband do something special y'all haven't slept in close to a decade now agreed you got a two-month-old you don't even know what day it is you don't it's a and it's okay but for real for christmas hire somebody to come over

and be with those kids and do something fun and lovely for one another um that's a lot you guys i want y'all to celebrate this moment because i know that when someone's when a spouse is in grad school and working full-time not only are are they working hard but the person who's holding the house down is working hard too and by the way you're growing a human

and making sure the other three were still alive during that time so do something fun for each other yeah but anthony i love what what you're saying here we just sprint to to collapse that

margin yeah right collapse that margin i love a story that dave has told us privately and i'm sure he's told it on the air too which is it was the margin yes that in 0.809

when when things fell apart he was able to go knock on doors and buy land and buy homes with pennies on the dollar because he had the margin and that's and others didn't right absolutely that's the thing that has really helped me out with the move that i just did i had the margin to go buy a home that in a gentrified area that

one day within the next year a year and a half will become a rental property for mine because i had the margin i took time i rented until i was 32 33

years old that's right because i wanted to have margin to really go build true wealth i want to thank producer james childs an associate producer the one and only kelly daniel the one and only kelly daniel thank you for joining us for this hour this has been the dave ramsey show

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the total debt is around six hundred and forty thousand dollars

for the rest of my life i just don't even know where to begin and i don't know what to do i'm not scared welcome to the dave ramsey show

you are not a victim you are the hero in

your story you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career everything just started making sense i was like i'm gonna do this let's hear a debt-free scream

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your money and your life i am john deloney here with my good friend and co-host anthony o'neal we're here to take your calls about your relationships your money your life everything in between yeah anthony how are we doing i'm doing good man how are

you doing man you are just winning right now with the dr john de lonnie show you dropping new episodes every monday wednesday and friday on youtube i mean you are just

really i mean your numbers are through the roof let's just be honest we're having some fun no no no no you're so humble let me be arrogant for you [Music] you're doing numbers like twenty thousand thirty thousand fifty thousand and even one of your videos got like three hundred thousand views we're doing good man and you're a rookie uh hey trust me you can watch that show

and you can find out real quick that i'm a rookie but what i'm saying is those those are not rookie numbers man i'm just excited to have you on the team because here's what america this guy is helping people and helping people get their mind and their mental

perspective correct and so i just want to say live on the air in front of 17 million people thank you for what you do and it's so cool to be on this team so i'm grateful for you man you've blazed the truth see my god he's like yes i agree with him anthony you know like i like him i like man but honestly america check out his show y'all check out his show i appreciate you that's right so give us a call at

and 825-5225-825-5225 we we're two men here there should be no blessing

all right let's go to miller in athens georgia miller how are we doing doing well john ditto to what anthony said thank you for everything you do well i appreciate you how can we help today um so i have an 11 year old stepson

um he's been i've been his stepdad since

he was two and a half years old um and i just feel like i'm not

being the stepdad that he needs um

i get i'm a little harder on him than i am on my actual biological kids and i can i can tell um he was diagnosed with adhd a few

years ago we've got on some good good medication for while he's at school to help him control his impulses he's very impulse he doesn't really have a great inner monologue but he's he's he's just full of life

he's great he's been uh inventive he wants to be an engineer he loves to build things but i know i'm harder on him than i should be and i just want advice um on how to be a better step-dad now hold on hold on miller

explain to me why do you think you're harder on him give us an example of why you think you're harder on him than you are to your son um i know that

there's sometimes so he can be a little argumentative which i mean he's an 11 year old boy he's getting close he's probably starting puberty and getting that way but he does he does question things a little bit more um than than what i would probably like and um sometimes i don't really i jump on him before i let him

him talk or um you know i get i just get

on to them a lot sooner and and then i probably should my wife has tried to talk to me you know i need to pick my battles and things like that which i feel like i've gotten a lot better at but um you know i i just want to be want to

be better for him i want him to look back when he's in his 20s and say you know thank you for for being my stepdad instead of looking back and resenting me thinking that you know i'm i i wish i had had somebody else or i wish i was able to live with my my real dad or or anything anything like that i just i know i could be better for him so i miller i want to just tell you um dad to dad

i'm honored to be talking to you today and if every father in america much less stepfathers had the heart you have have the desire

to want to raise a remarkable young man

the way you do the world would be a better place and so just the fact miller that you are asking this question is a gift okay the second thing is um

let me ask you a couple of questions one is his real dad in the picture

he is um he lives about three hours away

from us so and he his dad is um in the medical

field um so he is busy a lot

um and he doesn't get to see him as much as as i know my stepson would like but yeah he he's in the picture he facetimes he talks he calls we have a great relationship so yeah he's still very much in the picture what other kids are in the house

um his i have a 12 year old daughter

and then we also have a three-year-old little girl and a one-year-old little boy very cool so a like a good blended

family here with a dad two dads who've chosen to be grown-ups and to honor each other for the sake of these kids um man you are so far ahead of the curve miller um here's a couple of things i can tell you i haven't gone through this i've walked alongside people but i haven't experienced it and anthony you've lived this as that little boy and so i'd love to hear your insight here's a couple of things i would tell you about being around a young boy who is 11 or 12 and is struggling with adhd

and is connecting with his dad number one relationship with your daughter is going to be different than with your son and so i would hesitate i'd give yourself some grace in comparing the two it's easy to compare it thinking it's biological but there's also going to be a gender gap there and so give yourself some grace lean into high touch high connection

with this boy as opposed to high information

the temptation that especially men when they're trying to raise other men we only have a few tools in our tool kit most of the time and those are volume and

strength and information

and one of the greatest gifts we can give to a young boy especially one who has um processing challenges which is what adhd is just a processing issue it's a connection issue is letting him

know every day hey i chose to be your dad

i met your mom and you came with her and

i chose to be your dad and i'm so glad i did if you will say that sentence to him for the rest of his life he will grow roots deep deep roots if you will say every

morning hey before you leave before you go upstairs to zoom school or whatever y'all are having to do there in athens come give me a hug and you squeeze him hard and say i'm so glad i get to be your daddy i'm so glad that i chose to step in here

and be your dad and then remember this third thing here every time you're about to cut him off every time you're about to give him information every time you're about to scold him remember this he is watching you way more than he's listening to you and so if you want to model for him what

a caring husband looks like what a caring dad looks like what a compassionate father figure looks like

then i want you to remember that you're you're you're giving him a picture as opposed to what what your what the words you're coming out of your mouth right and so do this miller i want to get anthony's take on this i'm going to hold you over the break because i want to follow up here because i've got some academic info but anthony's walked this walk so stay tuned miller this is the dave ramsey show

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john dolone joined here with my co-host anthony o'neal we're talking to miller in athens georgia and miller is a step dad he's got a biological daughter he's 12 years old he's got a wonderful energetic exciting stepson who's 11 years old and he just called in because he wants to be a better stepfather what are some things he can do to be a better stepfather is that about right miller that's correct it's awesome so

before the break i gave you a couple of thoughts about looking at adhd as a connection issue

it's not a brain disorder your son's not broken he's been through a lot and normally kids who have been through a divorce season your daughter's probably experiencing this too quite honestly just it manifests itself differently in different kids is that kids backfill that tension in the home with it must be my fault somehow and it it will manifest its way in

perfectionism kids who double down on straight a's it will manifest itself in excitability and i'll get your attention through movement through shaking through being allowed so on and so forth

and you are as far as i'm concerned dad of dad of the year just for even asking the question and often and we often men lean into little boys with information and strength and

focus and discipline and little boys are

just like little girls and they need connection so we talked about connecting with your young son but i'm blessed here to have anthony with us who has lived this he's walked this walk and so anthony when you're hearing me talk to this this dad when you're hearing this extraordinary father here let us know what's going on your heart and mind yeah you know

right before the brave man i'm glad i didn't go before the break because this is kind of an emotional um conversation for me like it even

brings tears to my eyes because my stepfather and stepmother um i refuse to call them

step parents uh my parents

i have four loving parents who i look at them all equally um and miller i want to ask you a question man i want you to be honest with me do you love him the way you love your son that you actually birthed absolutely do you

feel as if even a slightly

a little difference like okay yeah that's my son and that's my stepson i love them but you know that's still my son like you can say here on the show in front of 17 million people and not just us but in front of god that you genuinely love that young man just as much as you love your other son i do genuinely love him cool i do

then what i want you to do is for yourself stop calling yourself a stepfather because there's nothing step about you you are a father and i think that

um one of the greatest things that both my other parents did was they showed me

love more than told me how much they love me

and especially on my other mother i

treated her like crap and she was there from day

one my my father other father

was the first man that i knew because my

biological father was fighting overseas and to this day

i heard you say something earlier that you want your son to get in his 20s and say thank you

pops thank you pops miller and i can

assure you that before he's in his 20s he will say thank you dad if you just sit there and you just

love him um don't even bring up adhd because i

tell america this uh the world said i had adhd because i was just like your son you know i was i have a lot of energy still to this day some people looking like is this boy crazy like is he sick no i just have a lot of energy and i got to remind myself that i have to focus and my mom was like maybe we should put him on medicine do you know who told my mom

no not my other dad my

stepfather my other father and he said

no we are not going to do that there is nothing wrong with anthony he is going to be okay i am going to step up i am going to be on him harder than yvette which is my sister harder than my brother which is my younger brother john you know and i'm gonna make sure that he is okay and that's why in my book debt-free degree the first chapter is proper prior planning prevents poor performances because my father other father would wake me up every night and would make sure that i

was focused and that i was focusing on my future and so miller we don't have to tell you how to be a better father because you're you are already a great father i think this call was to encourage you and all the other fathers out there who are stepping up to the plate and filling in that role as the biological father that you all keep doing what you're doing

and right now you may not feel appreciated right now you may feel like you're not doing enough but i promise you you're doing more than enough and before this

young man graduates high school he will look at you in your face and say thank you for the role you've played in my life as a father and i'm trying not to cry because you i might hang up this phone and call my daddy my other daddy and tell him thank you because to this day i am that man uh and i am a man because

of uh the roles that all four of my parents have played and so uh miller man i um how old are you kids

uh 12 11 3 and 1. cool man because

because because i just love what you're doing man i'm going to um say on the phone i'm going to send you a copy of my book debt free degree because you got young kids that need to go to college debt free um and with everything that you're doing right now i believe that you'll do that so stay on the line with kelly that's my gift uh from

you because i wish i could do so much more man uh because thank you anthony yeah man we need more fathers like you so miller we are in a season of thanks

and it's a it's a great time for you to

do this one exercise tonight i want you

to write a letter to this little boy

and i want you to prepare to read it to

him on thanksgiving and

while you're at it go ahead and write one to your daughter go ahead and write one to your wife and i want there to be a new um a new

you know uh a new tradition in the

miller household and that's where dad stands up and says i'm grateful for the folks sitting around this table and here's why wow and if you're like me i'd have to write it down because i couldn't get through it just off top of my head i'd start crying two seconds in and that would be it for me yeah yeah but i want you to lean into that and i want you to let that little boy know i'm so grateful that i chose to be your dad

i'm so grateful and you know what

can i add something you can add anything you want to can i change that a little bit absolutely sure yep and if this sucks tell me it sucks okay instead of for giving it to him on thanksgiving give it to him when he graduates high school i think both i like that little boys can't hear enough that their daddies are super proud of them that they love them yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

i would say yeah i would definitely do that because when he's 17 18 he can really understand that more that's right and to all the dads out there remember remember they're watching you way more than they're listening to you yes they're watching you way more than they're listening to you yeah and i want to say this too right here on the dave ramsey show we just praise all

the fathers and step father stepping up if you're a father and you're not fathering you need to step up if you have

kids out there that you're not helping the mother take care of them you need to step up because the reason

why young men are just making some of the poor decisions in the world today not just young men but young ladies it's because of the lack of fathers well even more than the lack of fathers is the dads who have been stressed out fried out burned out by kova this year you're exhausted you're worrying about your job you're worrying about this and this and your temper's gotten shorter

and shorter and you've started treating yourself poor and poor and that makes it easier to spend another night in front of netflix another night in the recliner another night disconnected from your kids they're not praising be present whether you've just abandoned them completely or you are alone in a crowded room in your home this is the season to turn it around be an engaged dad be a dad that says i'm sorry be a dad that says i'm gonna do better be a dad that says i'm

so grateful that you're my kids yeah

so grateful you're my kids this is the dave ramsey show

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means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color we'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply all right anthony today's question comes from jessica in new york jessica writes i've been working through baby step two and i'm exhausted i'm currently working six days a week and i've had a series of murphy issues happening besides covit

such as pest issues car repairs that i've had to cash flow i'm so tired of the schedule and working a job i hate to pay debt how do i overcome exhaustion and depression while in baby step two

well you know when it comes to you know the exhaustion depression part i want you to talk into that but for me uh i want to respectfully say

uh jessica um welcome to life i mean

everyone's being hit with all kinds of things from covet this year i've had some car issues come up um i haven't had any pest issues but i've had a lot of different issues come up and the key thing that i've learned from myself is to instead of allowing me to get overwhelmed with this just to sit down and write down the priorities okay what do i need to take care of first what is priority and just go down that line i think a lot of the exhaustion depression um anger

comes from self-inflicted stuff it's like hey okay listen you're on baby set number two so you're paying off your debt this means you should have a thousand dollars an emergency fund uh pest issues and car repairs as you

say you've already had a cash flow you know um the pest issues you don't want mice and stuff running around your house so you need to get that fixed so it's okay to pause babysit number two go to your thousand dollars emergency fund take care of this past issue get your thousand dollars back up and then jump back on the baby step two one of the key things that

i think is so important to hear um and john i really want you to talk to the exhaustion and depression side of this but from the baby step perspective is

we know something's going to come up that is life when it does come up just

just just step back breathe and attack

what's important and then just go down

that list and then get right back going to the baby steps so anthony i had this moment the other night my wife and i and i'm going to get choked up here um you shall argue no no my wife and i put the kids to bed oh wow and we were read the books we did

the whole thing the you can picture my house the lights are out my wife head to the bedroom and i was piddling around in the kitchen with one light bulb on it's a dim lit kitchen

and i heard my son's door open and i

started to roll my eyes thinking oh here we go another bedtime issue you know what i mean i'm gonna ask him what are you doing up and he's gonna give me some excuse we're gonna go on that down that rabbit hole and he turned the corner and i saw his face and he had tears running down his face i said bubba what's wrong and his school

had just been shut down again oh wow and he just came walking fast to

me and hugged me and said dad when does this stop wow when does this stop

when does school getting shut down and not being able to go to church and not being able to not being able to hang out my friends and you and mom are worried and stressed and thanksgiving when does this stop yeah and

jessica i hear what you're going through

everybody is exhausted yes they're just

fried yeah right yeah and that's

when my son had an important advantage

he had other people and i tell folks all the time anthony other people are your emergency fund for life yes you've got to have other people because in these moments when you become over overcome with exhaustion tireds in your head exhaustion's in your soul that's right when you get exhausted that's when you call somebody and you say i can't do this anymore and they say yes you can yeah well

they say i'm all put together a frito pie and i'm gonna i've got half a bottle of wine i'm coming over yeah right i'm gonna put something on your doorstep because we're not supposed to be hanging out or whatever it is and i also want to lean into this word depression we live in a culture now that we have sucked all of the nuance out of it we've sucked all feelings out of

it we used to have sadness frustration anger rage we just have all these emotions now we got anxiety and depression that's it and so be careful throwing that word around because i like what you said anthony unless you've got a diagnosis unless you were working with a doctor you're probably not depressed you're probably just sad yeah you're probably this just sucks you're probably just exhausted and worn out

and you need other people to pick you up to be there for you to lean into you a little bit and then it's your turn is going to come right your turn is going to come but this is life this is hard i want to flip this around jessica and high five you you're in baby step two you had pest issues you had car repairs and you didn't just pull out a credit card

there you go you cash flowed it it's hard to see that you're winning when you're in the middle of it but you are you're taking steps in the right direction they're little steps not near as fast as you want you are exhausted get some people around you who love you and keep going and keep going and keep going as dave always tells us he reads the story

the tortoise in the hair every year and every time he reads that book the tortoise wins yup one step after another just keep going we're with you we're with you jessica all right let's go to christian in mcallen texas christian how in the world are you let's see here uh whoops i went to chris in atlanta sorry chris um chris in atlanta i saw chris and then

i hit the wrong button there chris but we're we're going to you chris so what's up brother uh not much guys there we go good deal doing good um so this has got to be god's head because y'all are the food that i was aiming to get to talk to i've been listening to y'all's podcast for about four weeks now four weeks a long drive home every day and uh so my question is

i'm on board man i'm all hyped up about starting i sold my four-wheeler for baby step one

um sold my toys um and i'm all high stuff but my wife uh we're on two completely different

so she is not hyped up she's dave

ramsey's cuss word um every time we talk about it we argue

about finances um and where it's been

from for her is from the past a year ago

quickly found out she had cancer

and four months later she was gone

and she's in this mentality of you know she's living for the moment and you know she doesn't you know

she doesn't want you know to sacrifice you know anything in order to you know not do certain things like vacations or something and it all kind of comes from you know her mother passing so soon and i don't know what to do

well one christian first and foremost thanks for being a husband who loves his wife and thanks for reaching out appreciate you and all right guys that tells me you got you got a good heart around you and that you love your wife anthony what do you tell couples as they're wrestling with how are we going to get on board together [Music] i don't really talk to a lot of married couples um because you know but here's the thing i do want to suggest um is this

chris i would look at how you are presenting it and i can understand why

another man's name who doesn't live in this house is like a cuss word uh because dave ramsey's name will not be stronger than anthony o'neill's name in my house okay and so i think that how we present

a better financial future is is

is the wise way to go so instead of her saying babe dave ramsey says obey dave ramsey would suggest no just say bae hey can we become debt free i you want to go on a vacation i want to take you on the best vacation instead of going to florida we need to go to italy but we can't go to italy racking up a bunch of debt so my suggestion is dr john is that how do we package this

um this conversation to where it's more attractive to his wife and that way she will get on board and then here's what i am going to say i'ma say this if your wife never wants to get on board uh this plan is not worth you losing your marriage over your marriage is the number one priority

okay and i believe together they can get there though that's right chris it's about painting a picture just like anthony said here's where we want to go here's where we want to be that might be you being vulnerable and say hey all this debt scares me that might be you opening up to your wife in a way you never have but it's about painting a picture about where

you want to go not about what you're running from i love what anthony said not about what dave's gonna make you do about who we are gonna become together on this new adventure going this way

and your heart's in the right place brother yeah this is the dave ramsey

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined with my good friend and co-host anthony o'neal you're taking your calls on life and money now let's go to christian i'm gonna hit the right button this time christian in mcallen texas how are we doing christian i'm doing well uh john thank you for uh taking the time to talk to me today and for hitting the right button this time so how can i help hey yeah yep um so i've been down

uh in texas for about almost a year now

i've been deployed or mobilized with a kentucky national guard and i'm 19 years old i have been investing the entire time i've been down here i've put away about 35 000 and i've had a tremendous year i've made about twenty four thousand in the stock market i'm doing long-term uh five-year

outlooks on all the companies i invest into my question is i'm about to be home in about a month now and i'll be starting college i'm going

to uh university of kentucky for a finance degree to be a financial advisor and i wanted to know until next fall

should i be going out and looking for just job experience or should i just keep on that grind of making money and investing it while i can at a young age christian how are you paying for school bro uh the kentucky national guard's got it covered i've got my tuition completely covered and after this deployment i'll have what's called the 911 gi bill and they'll actually be giving me around 700 a month to go to school

i love it i love it i love it i love it so your main question is what should you be doing between deployment and going to school and so what are your options right now to work and continue stacking money or what what's your other option just to

go out and look for experience

get better at sales just build up those uh crucial life skills and business skills because i also like to run my own business one day okay so i like two of these things i i think you can do both of them at the same time i'm saying work stack up some money

so you can invest some money because you already have 35 000 saved i would sit down with smart investor pro and see how you can you start sending some money into like a growth stock mutual fund uh covered by ira to start investing into your future would you say you're already doing that so i will continue doing that and start investing a little bit more into that but here's the flip side um i'm not really concerned about the actual um trying to get the

work experience i want you to network i

want you to get out there and build relationships in the career field that you're trying to get into ken coleman wrote a book that you need to read and i want you to stand on the line because 19 years old 35 000 saved you deserve a free copy of king coleman's book because it would bless you it's called the proximity principle and one thing ken talks about is

if you really want to land your dream job you need to be around some of the people who are doing what you already want to do so don't focus on trying to get a job no get around the right people this way

if you're building those relationships tell them hey can i just come sit down with you for a day and just see what you're doing and just build a relationship with you and learn some things from you yeah son come on over you know find two or three people and just build that relationship take them out to coffee man you got enough money saved and just ask them a bunch of questions

and when they talk you listen and you just keep asking questions and show them that you're hungry show them that you're passionate tell them you're about to go to school to learn this and what you'll find is when you go to school and you get that education you're going to have three people who are willing to put their name on you and vouch for you okay so that's what

i would really do work a little bit over here so you can generate some income and then on the flip side really focus on trying to build some business some business relationships that will benefit you in the future so i want you to stay on the line kelly's gonna give you a copy of ken coleman's uh book proximity principle and then also too i think you need to listen to king coleman's show monday through friday

because he will definitely walk you through the process and the journey on how to land your career job he's the number one career expert in the us right now all right let's go to caitlin in pittsburgh caitlin how are you doing

good how are you guys good thanks for hanging out with us what can we do to help yeah thank you for taking my call so um

i just got accepted into medical school for next year congratulations um thank you

and uh i just worked really hard the last two years to pay off my undergrad debt because i did the typical thing of taking about a lot of loans and going to a private school and i'm trying to not do that

with medical school since like the medical school debt is a big conversation nowadays so i just wanted you guys's advice on whether or not you think it's a good investment or what are some tricks or ways to avoid medical school debt well there's there are no tricks let me just be real to caitlin all right um one of the key things that i'm teaching people is to stop saying i'm trying to not take out student loan debt

and just go ahead and take debt off of the table completely so when you take debt off of the table completely it's going to force you to look at different options okay so let's go down that path okay if i'm not going to take out student loan debt student loans out of the picture what are your options and let me tell you right now it's not going to be a lot

and it's going to be hard okay but you can do it now you said

you've already been accepted into a school what school have you been accepted into and how much is it going to cost you uh yeah so i got into my school in atlanta and they gave me an academic scholarship

of 50 tuition it's just the other half i'm worried about cash flow because i just paid off all of my undergrad loans okay and how much is that how much is going to cost you uh let's say a year to cash fill that how much will you need a year um a year

is looking at like 25 000. okay and how much do you make a year right now uh 70 000. okay and do you are you living on your own are you living with family um i'm living

on my own okay all right so let me ask you this question if it's hard if you can pick up a side hustle if you can get online and find some scholarships let's say for example you can find another ten thousand dollars and i'm giving my website and if you really do the work i promise you you can find at least 10 000 scholarship can you cash flow the other 15 000 i i believe so i i'm doing the baby

steps right now because i i'm a recent listener so i don't have a lot of credit card debt i have about like 500 left on a credit card and then i'm in a lease that i'm trying to get out of so definitely if i work on that aspect

i think i can do it i'm just worried about the next three years like after this additional year because i won't be employed obviously after this year okay all right so here's the thing here's the next question gotta ask yourself it's gonna be a hard one is it time for you to go to medical school right now that's the question that you gotta ask and then you have to be honest with yourself now let me give

you some things that that i'm seeing working there are certain states there are certain hospitals in certain states that are low on nurses doctors nurse practitioners

that if you can go to those states if you're willing to transfer for two years if you go over to my show the anthony show on youtube i interviewed two doctors that went to school 100 debt free because they were willing to go to a rural area and serve in that community

and that hospital paid for their medical

and their medical degree and so maybe

going to school right now is not the best option but if you're really looking for it from scholarships to possibly moving to a a state or a city that you may not want to be in so you can get your experience so you can get your degree and then come back to your state or city after like two years that might be an option but if you're having a

if you're telling me you can't cash for fifteen thousand dollars then we have an income problem that we need to address first then we need to look at the medical school make sense right yeah that makes sense yeah so i i

would ask yourself and honestly have a hard conversation with yourself you don't have to answer it here on the show because i i think that's something you really need to ask yourself look yourself in the mirror is it time for me to go to medical school right now and if the answer is no take a year pay off the rest of your debt and then if you're making 70 000 your income should go up

next year to 75 you can cash flow 25 000 and be done with your program within the next two to three years and anthony you hit on an important point when it comes to law school when it comes to med school people get so excited when they get accepted yeah they will just get in line and do any next thing yeah and you can ask for a deferral

you can't say hey i got in i got this scholarship i want to roll it over start next year yeah and now i'm going to crush to answer your question 25 000 a year for med school is a good deal that's a good roi on that had the cash to figure it out thank you so much for the call go to med school and do some good things for some good folks

we need you this has been the dave ramsey show

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the total debt is around 640 thousand dollars i want him to come clean about a credit card that he doesn't know about i'm gonna probably pay student loans for the rest of my life i just don't even know where to begin and i don't know what to do i'm not scared welcome to the dave ramsey

you are not a victim you are the hero in

your story you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career everything just started making sense i was like i'm gonna do this let's hear a debt-free scream [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am john dolone

and i'm here with my good friend and co-host the one and only mr anthony o'neill we are taking your calls about life about money about any and everything give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five anthony we doing well hey man we're doing well man ready to get to these phone lines to help some people out outstanding let's go to elizabeth in albany new york elizabeth how's it going

good how are you guys we are doing well we're doing well how can we help so um my husband and i were in 140 000

in debt a hundred of it is just in student loans and we're currently in baby step two and on top of this two years ago we had our first son welcomed into the world and he was born with down syndrome and shortly after his birth i became very ill and am now dealing with a chronic illness um i'm just feeling very guilty about our current situation as

i feel like a lot of it is my fault in a lot of ways and we're working at our at our debt but um at the same time my husband and i are both working full time

so who do you feel guilty towards

i just feel guilty because i mean of our student loan debt 80 000 is mine alone i got my masters in finance and accounting and um i just feel guilty because on top of that i got like very ill where i was debilitated and basically working with fevers at home trying to keep it together and i feel like i mean the illness i feel like it's my fault and on top of that i had a son born with a disability

so what's your what's your illness

um i went on diagnose with lyme disease and take born relapsing fever for two years and it also put my body into like an autoimmune type of illness as well and i'm currently at home getting home care i have a nurse coming weekly on iv antibiotics and on a whole other host of medications as well so i want you to picture

your life as a backpack

okay so you're wearing a backpack

and in that backpack we all have one but we're just talking about yours today and in that backpack are bricks

that you may have put in there over time

that your parents may have put in there that your religion or culture may have put in there that your financial stat state wherever you happen to live life puts them in there right and some people are born with more bricks in their backpack than others some just skate free for a while but everybody ends up with bricks in their backpack okay and then you do something that violates your core moral principles right

and you that's a cinder block right or somebody somebody introduces trauma into your life and they just slam a cinder block into that backpack and you carry it around for a while when people talk about guilt for me that's when somebody violates one of their own core principles they violate their own conscience and there is a

proper and right thing to do when you violate your core set of values and that's to pick up and carry this brick i made a mistake i'm going to carry this for a while when it becomes shame is when you put it in your backpack and you say i am a mistake i'm going to carry this around because i have to when you have a beautiful wonderful baby

that has downs but it's still lovely

and hard and challenging

and different i want to change your word from guilt to grief not that you're grieving that you don't have a healthy baby that also has down syndrome but you have a baby that is different from the picture that you had in your head and i want to give you permission to say this isn't how we drew it up this isn't the picture i the fantasy i had in my head and it's okay and i love love my baby

and i love this new adventure we're gonna be on together and that's different than guilt it is a real thing that moms and dads who have children with special needs feel like they quote unquote did something to somebody the longer you carry that brick around the more you weigh yourself down the more you weigh your marriage down and the more you weigh your parenting down and here's

the thing you've got an autoimmune disease you owe it to your body to sit down as many of those bricks as possible yeah did you borrow a lot of money for school yeah you did and then you learned and i guess you learned some new information right you learn some new information

yeah and so carrying it around to tomorrow into the next day and the next day only does one thing it traumatizes the next day and the next day the next day and the one thing your body needs is as few bricks as possible

right right so i wanted to tell you you are worthy of walking around with a lighter load you are worthy of putting those bricks down that you've picked up and chosen to carry you've got a baby that is different than your than you thought but wow what a gift right

oh yeah beautiful fun messy

fun gift right it's different but it's a gift and is your husband a good guy and i oh yeah oh my gosh she's amazing and the guilt more i mean i don't

i don't feel like i mean for a while i did blame myself for what happened but it turned into more of a guilt like i can't stay home with my child because of my student loan debt and

here's the thing you've acknowledged it you pick that brick up and i want you to set it down

because all you're doing now is prolonging the gap between you and your child prolonging that gap between you and your husband because you got a big cinder block between the two of you put it down it is what it is and what you're going to do is you're going to do the best you can is as much as your health will allow to grind the sucker out you're going to pay that stuff off as fast as

you can and you and your husband are going to live towards something anthony talks a lot about this you're going to live towards a future where you're staying at home you're soaking up every precious minute with this beautiful wonderful baby and you are doing the

best you can right now to grind it out the more you drag yesterday into today the more that smells just gonna going to wrangle your whole house right right so will you commit to me and my friend anthony that you're just gonna put the bricks down today yes i will

say it out loud i'm gonna put these bricks down today i'm gonna put these bricks down today and when your husband comes home from work i want you to give him a squish of a hug as you possibly can and i want you to tell him honey i put the bricks down today i thought she was gonna say give him a squishy kiss you can do that too do them both

do them both and i want you to hug that baby yes hug that baby and say honey today i'm

putting the bricks down and you don't know a mama who's not carrying bricks around but today is going to be that day that we put them down anthony as parents we've got these

pictures of what it's going to be like i know you've got them i have them i don't have any kids i know but you got a picture of what you imagine it's going to be oh yeah yeah okay and it's never that picture uh well don't tell me that i i want to i don't want to think like that right now i want to enjoy the picture

i have in my head but hey here's the thing you're going to enjoy the reality so much more you're gonna enjoy the reality so much more it's never what we think and it's always harder and more messy and more beautiful yes sir this is the dave ramsey show

folks it's an honor to tell you about the army national guard not only are they big supporters of our high school curriculum but they also give you the opportunity to impact your local communities whether your goals are to get an education serve your country or have a better life the army national guard can help get you there plus they offer unbelievable financial benefits secure your future today visit nationalguard.org to find out more

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined with ramsey personality anthony o'neil my co-host 825-5225 let's go to luke in janesville wisconsin luke what's going on man hey gentlemen how are you doing today outstanding how can we help great well i don't

exactly have a money question uh i mean it sort of is i guess but not

really um i've been engaged to my wonderful fiance for about a year we're planning on getting married in june of 21.

and the issue i'm having is that my parents don't really want to uh accept the fact

that we're together and that we're gonna be having a future together and that we'll be married um my fiance's parents have been very

supportive this whole time and i'm very fortunate for that that like every time that i've spoken on the phone with my folks in the last year like they've never even asked about my fiance or how she's doing or

anything it's so they they're very um

fascinated with my life and how i'm doing but they never ask about my fiance so the issue that i'm having is uh first of all i i want them at the wedding because it's uh you know getting married is you know one of the best days of your life and you want family to help celebrate that but at the same time i'm thinking well long term in the future if they won't if they won't even say her name now

and what's to tell me that they're going to be supportive you know 20 30 years from now in into the future

why don't they like your fiance

i don't know that's a million dollar question you have some inkling like my parents like my wife way better than me way better yeah

well that's not hard that's a low bar i get but yeah you have some inkling your mom has made some off offhand passive aggressive comments your dad's been passive like what what is it about her or at least guess well i i don't think it's anything specific about my fiance now i've i've dated other people in the past and it's been the same it's been the same thing every person that i've dated

so are you the precious little son that nobody will ever be good enough for you i think that's a big part of it i mean i've got one other sibling okay so here's the deal here's the deal luke um save yourself a lot of heartache and headache number one if this is the person you're gonna marry this is who you've decided to marry it is what it is what

it is you're doing something called catastrophizing that's the nerd word and what that means is you are painting a picture of what might happen next year 5 years 10 years and 20 years from now and you're allowing your body to respond to it right now as though it's happening

and one way to cut through all of this grief all of the i don't knows and this could happen in 30 years from now if my parents don't fill in the blank is call your dad call your mom

and say we just need to have a hard conversation do you not like my fiance or guys i'm marrying her

i want you all to be on board with this i want y'all to be supportive of us i want you to love me and the best way you can love me is by loving both of us but this is gonna happen and then you move on from there and you may find out that they don't know how to talk about it they may not not like her like

you think they don't like her or you may get some real good clarity that they hate her they wish think she's the worst person ever they think you should break up with her either way you're gonna have some clarity because when you get that clarity then you're gonna know well then i don't want you at the wedding or you're going to feel free to invite them your parents are going to be have have

the permission to have their own feelings about it but you're not going to let them dictate it because they don't get a vote they're not living your life right how hard would that conversation be luke it would definitely be hard i mean we've had um when when i when i popped the question last december i i wasn't living near my parents it was about a thousand miles away

so i called home to tell them the news you know and uh it was a very very

weird phone conversation unlike anything that i've ever had with them uh it was it was more of like they were they were almost yelling at me out of anger that why why i would do this in my life you know why i would ask this woman to marry me it was almost as though i was supposed to ask them for permission before i did it which i did not do how old are

you i was gonna say how old are you man how are you bro we're both 26 years old being my fiancee all right cool man here's the savage side of me

if your fiance hasn't done anything to disrespect your parents or your family no she's been loving she's been caring she's been respectful um and and this is the woman that you

feel is your wife god is saying move forward

um yeah bro i'm just saying what i would do i'm not saying this is the right thing to do

big difference let me say this but what i'm going to do this is what i would do um my my my family will get the message

very clearly for me that this is my wife this is where we're going when they ask me how are you doing i'm saying we are doing well and until they can respect her then my family wouldn't talk to me now i'm not saying you to do that i'm just saying my family will know this is a grown man we have to respect

where he's going and we need to respect his wife because the last thing you want to do and i could be wrong here again i'm not married i'm not a marriage counselor but the last thing you want your fiance soon to be wife to feel like when you get married is that you don't have her back with your family ding ding ding and you need to show your family up front like yo

listen i want to talk to you but

now this is my priority this is my

number one family and you're number two and so it's like if you can't respect her that means you don't respect me and if you don't respect me then we can't talk so luke why haven't you had a conversation with your parents and i'm asking you this because

you're a few months away from being a married man you're a few months away from legally and spiritually binding yourself to co-create a new future together

and i'm concerned about what the next christmas is going to look like when your mom says xyz what the birthday

parties what the first when you have your first kid and your second kid and your third kid you don't seem like somebody who's

able to have a hard conversation and not even a hard one a direct conversation this ain't hard at all and a direct conversation with your mom and dad why haven't you had that conversation yet well i've i've tried to nope no no no

why haven't you had that conversation yet i guess i would rather not deal with

their criticism and i know that's what he will

criticize his fiancee his decisions his choices

exactly exactly yeah um and i realized

it really it shouldn't bother me i i can't control what other people say do one thing hey luke it can bother you and

you can't control other people's thing

right yeah and so i'm gonna suggest

you're not ready to get married until you're ready to sit down and have an adult grown-up conversation with your parents huh have a grown-up adult conversation

with your parents about your direction where you're going to go like anthony said i i know we tell this guy john not to get married because he's scared to talk to his mom and dad i'm it's a i'm painting a broader wisdom picture if you're ready to join lives with somebody you're also able to say hey mom and dad here's who we are gonna be

right okay yeah no that

that that makes sense is that fair i get it absolutely so pretty much what he's saying luke is go talk to your mom and dad so you can get married you know go tell them up front this is what we about to do let's talk that's right you know and uh that's not a hard conversation if you love this woman you calling her right now i mean not hurt

you calling your mom and dad right now and i'm gonna tell you you're gonna have a conversation to have with your fiance because she's absorbed all of this yeah and she has felt second fiddle to your mom and second fiddle to your dad too and let me say this too your honeymoon night because you step up to your mom and dad is gonna be real good oh

and then anthony went there this is the dave ramsey show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance

but rather a federally approved exemption to the health care law it's a time-tested model to help take care of your health care costs it's christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills adjusting to a new system of paying for health care was kind of tricky but that's where chm stepped in and they really helped navigate that water with the hospital and the payment want to see if chm is the right fit for your healthcare needs check out our website at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org backslash

budget it was just such a relief to know

that financial burden was going to be taken care of

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john deloney with my good friend co-host mr anthony o'neal triple eight eight two

five five two two five let's go to haley in dallas texas hayley good afternoon how are we doing i'm good how are we all very very well how can we um help i am 22 years old and i have

about thirty thousand dollars in checkings eight thousand dollars in savings um i have like a 730 credit score

zero debt and i own two cars um i just wanna know more about what i can do to improve my financial financial situation and what kind of investments i should start looking at haley okay

let's i mean oh my goodness i'm loving this

conversation right now okay i'm loving it i'm loving it i'm loving it you have thirty thousand dollars in savings eight thousand dollars in checking 22 years old are you educated do you have a bachelor's degree i actually did not go to college i just enrolled in real estate online school oh and

so what do you do for a living um right

now i'm a marketing coordinator at a mortgage company and i also bottle service on the weekends oh come on working hard and uh what's your debt looking like right now hear that zero debt come on

let's go i'm getting excited right now i'm sorry all right you called in for help not for excitement um what what is the next thing you should be doing at 22 years old exactly what you're doing right now living intentionally uh being a good steward of your means

now uh with you having you just enrolled in real estate school because you're working for a mortgage company so this means you want you want to get into real estate love it so you're going to cash flow that part all right are you doing any kind of investing right now

i'm not okay so my money's just kind of sitting and saving so i want to do more

let me ask you this question too and i mean it's paid for but why do you have two cars um so one of my cars isn't in so great

condition it needs a couple of things

but then my other cars just i have an audi

that i bought in high school um

cap and then i just this year bought a toyota because bottle servicing i drive 40 minutes and i wanted a yeah i love it love it love it uh sell that car today sell it go go sell the audi don't don't try and fix it uh just sell it someone will buy it from you put that money into your savings and what i would do haley right now is

the very first thing i would do is i'll go ahead and open up a growth stop mutual fund which is covered by ra so you can start investing 15 of your income into that okay that's the very first thing that i would do now there are some other options as well that with your age and with the kind of income that you're making right now the income you're about to be making

when it comes to the real estate uh space uh you can really start investing into some other different areas i would encourage you to speak to a smart investor pro okay i just go to daveramsey.com type in smart vessel right there and and you'll find some areas not some areas but some people in your area that will sit down with you but one of the key things that i'm seeing with real estate agents they're not doing a real good job of saving

and investing their money for retirement okay and so what i want to encourage you to do is to really jump on the phone with a smart investor pro go ahead and just tell them hey i want to open up a uh ira invested into a growth stock growth stock mutual fund um i want to start maxing that out and then what are some other options that i can be doing at

this young age with you doing this at 22 if you can do this sometime next week before thanksgiving and give yourself a good 30 to 40 years haley just from your investments alone you will be a multi-millionaire now i think you're going to be a millionaire just from your income and how you can be doing in the real estate world but just think about it if you're

if you can get your income to a million dollars a year and then you have investments worth a million dollars a year at 40 years old man you're going to be in such a great place so that's the very first thing that that i would do is one continue living with intentionality continue being a good steward of your money continue living below your means because it sounds like you're living way below your means

i want to commend you for that right and then four start investing as much as

you possibly can into your retirement not just into accounts for five years no have a strategic plan um about

that um you know this is what i want you i want you to hold on i love giving away people stuff i you you don't have like a big big book just yet you're redefining she ain't ain't just about nothing so we got i'm not gonna give her your book but i want you to hold on haley uh because you are a future everyday millionaire and kelly's gonna give you a copy of chris hogan's book everyday millionaire and i want you to read this book okay this book is going

to show you what millionaires are are doing and what they did to become a millionaire if you can have that mindset at 22 years

old oh my goodness so hold on a phone hold on the phone hey i'm so proud of you uh hold on the phone kelly's going to take good care of you man but john 22 what were you thinking at 22

not that what about you

oh man 22 i started thinking like that

but i was in debt like crazy

i wasn't even close to thinking about nothing like 22. yeah i mean i was you know i was a basketball coach i wanted to win basketball games and you know it looks flashy and this is one of the things maddie and i'm not trying to plug myself but i am trying to plug myself here plug it um this is why i'm so passionate

about helping young people understand at

20 in their young 30s that if we can shift our mindset and really start thinking about the future by being a good steward today so we can have something to stand on tomorrow and build on tomorrow our world is

so so so much better and one of the key

ingredients to really building a life for success is identifying your why now a lot of people hear this but have heard this before but like if your why doesn't make you cry that's what everyone hears and you don't have you don't have a deep enough why but i want to go a little bit further if your why doesn't make you cry then the price of commitment will make

you cry and so one of the key things i'm trying to teach young people is get that deep why why do you want to be successful what's going to get you over the hump of when people tell you you're not making smart moves you need to get this credit card you need to be in debt you need to have this you need to have that no if your why is not deep enough

then you're going to fall into that trap this young lady has a clear why that's why she was able to have thirty thousand dollars at 22 years old sitting in the bank account check this out with no degree no degree i was gonna say with no degree no degree and so this is what i'm talking about on my show uh the table with anthony o'neil on youtube

it comes out every monday about to release a podcast so i want young people parents if you hear me right now my show ain't for you i'm gonna be real but if you're in your 20s and if you're in your 30s if you know 2020s and 30s 30s they need to go over youtube.com because that's what i'm trying to produce other young people in their 20s and 30s

really becoming debt free having a strong savings and building strong wealth so we can change

the future that our younger people coming up can see i love it and speaking of young people going to get it this doesn't have to just be young people it just happens to be a lot of the time yeah do you know we have over 130 people

on our creative team here at ramsey solutions lots of brilliant minds creative people

i saw what they did with my photoshop they took a picture of my face anthony they made me look handsome bro they made me look handsome too i thought that's a lot of creative energy in one space we act as one big an in-house agency that supports all types of business units our team is currently looking for passionate product designers with strong visual design skills and a background in user experience

and user research if you've been impacted by our mission and want to spread our message of hope if you your 20s 30s you want to change

your trajectory yes we want you to apply for a position on our team today find out about all the available jobs at daveramsey.com careers we are doing work that matters

and we have more fun in this building

than any job you can imagine and man not just in this building even outside brothers i can't men listen battle the bands every year just getting around the fire pit folks going to hang out at different cruises people coming over to each other's houses we've been voted by one as one of the best places to work in the country in the country by inc magazine young folks old folks any creative person you get to work with dave ramsey john deloney rachel cruz anthony o'neil ken coleman christy wright and even

chris hogan come on apply today at daveramsey.com careers get it folks this is the dave

ramsey show

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today's scripture is psalms 20

verse 7. some trust in chariots and some

in horses but we trust in the name of the lord our god simon sinek says vision is the ability to talk about the future with such clarity it is if we are talking about the past

vision is the ability to talk about the future with such clarity it is as if we are talking about the past hold on let me hold on to that i like that quote i like that quote all right let's go to kaylee in hoboken new jersey kaylee how are we doing doing well thank you both so much for taking my call you bet thanks for calling what can

we do to help i have a question on how to approach investing with my fiance or discussing all our future investing we're both 27 years old graduated from state schools debt-free and have each about i feel like a hundred thousand dollars in our retirement accounts and some personal investing so i think we're doing great but his strategy is much more single stock focus because he works in finance

and kind of thinks that he you know he's smarter than the indexes i guess and i'm much more about mutual funds and

and being more i guess safe with my investing and i'm trying to get him on board for a future because i don't want us to argue about how we should be handling our money once we're married yeah yeah this is this is a good question right here and i wish her uh i wish he was on the phone with you um do you all um seek guidance from a financial

advisor or is he your financial wizard

um no we both use um people that our families used okay okay that's prague yeah that's

probably don't use who your family use use who you two need to use you understand what i'm saying so this

is what this is what i want you to do i want you to ask your husband hey can we together because i love how man we are young we're investing and we're winning right now financially but i just want to talk to like a different financial advisor that can really just really help us get to that next level like yo husband can you think about us being a multi-millionaire he'll get excited don't say anything about

i don't like how you're doing single stocks just say hey i really want to go sit down have coffee with someone show someone our portfolio and see how we can flip this portfolio and make it even better and then let the financial advisor from there advise you to on like hey this single stock route is not the best route mutual funds stuff like this is the best route

and so what i would do if he says yes then i would just go to smart vessel pro and just find a a few of them in your neighborhood see which one you are comfortable with and sit down have the conversation because i think we can give you all the stats on the phone and then the last thing i want you to do is go back to your husband say well anthony

and john and dave said well you don't want to tell another man what another man said okay absolutely right yeah so i don't want to set you up to lose because as soon as you say well anthony said well who the heck is anthony

in his house so i would say hey i enjoy

this i love what we're doing we are winning right now um are you open to sitting down with another financial advisor and literally having coffee having lunch with them and allowing them to talk into how do we make this even better and from what i think about your husband i think he's going to be totally down with that uh because it just means it just means more money y'all's pocket down

the road and then allow the financial advisor to call out like hey single stocks that's not the right to go because nearly 70 percent of people who invest into single stocks lose their

money you do not want to be in that

stat okay so that would be my recommendation yeah i love that and i love anthony you told him going to a finance guy who's won the last few years and said this i know it feels good i know we think it's always going to be raining yeah but there's going to be seasons of drought yeah he's not going to hear that yeah right he's not going to hear that no and so the answer to this question is

often less a math problem and more of a heart problem yeah and i even want to say this too dr ian i want you to answer this question because this is our second time today um you know just hearing this

question and i hear this often and i'm like man we got to say something because i don't want to i want people to feel like i don't i don't love my own leader dave ramsey but the last thing you want to do is say dave said right you know you got to figure out how to get your partner or whoever you're trying to talk to your loved one on board

because that's what you passionately feel you know about you can say i've done some research i listened to the dave ramsey show i read some books i've done this and i think this is the route to go without saying dave anthony chris dr john

said like you got to be passionate about

it right dave wrote the plan right right dave lived the plan has created the plan yes but dave's not waking up in your house every day come on dave's not going to be sitting on the front porch of your paid off house while your grandkids are running around in the yard you are yep right yep and as you talked about earlier you have to be your why

the picture of where you and your spouse are going to live someday that's got to be your why not just because dave said so now it's fun when both you and your spouse are on board yes and you're living it in it's fun to blame dave for everything yeah my little brother he is him and his wife have been grinding for years he's got all these weird odd jobs he'll text me from under a picture from underneath

the house and he'll say look what dave's making me do it's it's part of a family joke right they're on it together but his wife's not coming home saying you're going to do this because dave said so yeah right yeah then you're using dave as a weapon yeah instead of as a as a guide as a path right exactly that's right all right let's go let's get one more

let's go to joe in philadelphia joe good afternoon how can we help hi how

are you so good so good um

so i've been actually working in the last couple years on the debt snowball but i read in rachel's book a couple years ago and recently our situation changed where my husband's father-in-law or his my father-in-law he passed away and left us a great

you know deal of uh money so

our situation kind of changed where you know we're gonna have the ability to pay the rest of our debts off and we have money that we're going to be able to have in our investments that are like we're trying to get rolled into investments but we still have a mortgage on our home and uh the financial advisor when i she asked me what i want to do

i said i want to pay my house off and she absolutely said no of course she did because she's not going to get any of the commission off the rest of them

yeah that's exactly how much do you owe in the house uh joe co260 okay um but we would have 700 000

in investments and um we actually have more cash other

than that we would even have so i feel like i should take that cash pay off the house pay off the house i mean without even i want to breathe easy at night yeah yeah and joe if if there's not some

significant ties here i want you to get a different yes um

financial advisor this is somebody that doesn't have your best interest in in mind this they have their best interest in mind and i want you to find someone who is going to sit down and listen to you and learn your goals one of which is to be completely debt free one of which is to honor your father-in-law by being a good steward of this money not that's going to make them a quick return joe is this a smart smart investor uh

a what is this is your financial advisor a smart vester i'm not quite sure i can tell you no anthony because they wouldn't ask that kind of question so what i'm saying is joe that's great i want you to go to daveramsey.com find you a smart investor on there that you can explain all your dreams to they will guide you down the right path and they will also tell

you pay off your home you have seven hundred thousand dollars in investments you have extra cash on reserves you are on the right track one of the key things we found when it comes to building wealth and chris hogan's um study on everyday millionaire was they had a paid for mortgage okay so buy

pay off the mortgage get rid of this weird financial advisor that just wants to commission check and go get you someone that's going to help you build true wealth and what they're going to do is they're going to say listen interest rates are 3 i can make

you this much percent in the market yeah and they're gonna they're gonna punch some numbers on the 10k and they're gonna say ccc this is an easy math problem and what you're gonna say is i'm in this for the long haul this is a heart issue yes it's a psychology and a spiritual issue it's not always a calculator issue i want to thank producer james childs and associate producer kelly daniel

the wonderful engineers in the booth i want to thank you my brother anthony o'neil hey man thank you wish everybody a wonderful thanksgiving season this has been the dave ramsey show

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you

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## 171. The Hard Road Is The One That Moves You Forward | December 1, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. It's Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsay personality, and my daughter is my co-host on this Thanksgiving eve.

If you don't know, William Henry Seard, William Seard was

Abraham Lincoln's Secretary of State. He

was also the brains behind that presidency in a lot of ways including he wrote a lot of Abraham Lincoln's speeches that became worldrenowned and

famous including this proclamation that was issued October the 3rd 1863 right in the

middle of the civil war. The Civil War

would end about 18 months after this was

proclamation was issued by the president of the United States of America. Here's Lincoln.

The year that is drawing towards its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies.

To these bounties which are so consistent, constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come. Others have been added which are of so extraordinary a nature

that they cannot fail to penetrate and

soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever

watchful providence of Almighty God. In

the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to

invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations. Order has been maintained. The

laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except

in the theater of military conflict.

While that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union, needful diversions

of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plow, the shuttle, or the ship. The axe has

enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines as well of iron and coal

as of the precious metals have yielded even more abundantly than here to for.

Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege, and the battlefield. And the country rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor is permitted to expect continuence of years with large

increase of freedom.

No human council hath devised nor hath

any mortal hand worked out these great things.

They are the gracious gifts of the most

high God.

who while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It seemed to me fit and proper

that they should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged

as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States and also those who are at sea and those who are surjouring in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise

to our beneficent father who dwelleth in the heavens.

And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to him for such singular deliverances

and blessings, they do also with humble pentance for our national perverseness and disobedience commend to his tender

care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourers, or sufferers in the

lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged. and fervently

implore the interposition of the Almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to

restore it as soon as may be consistent

with the divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union. In testimony whereof I have heretofor set my hand and

caused the seal of the United States to be affixed done at the city of Washington this third day of October, the year of our Lord, 863. President Abraham Lincoln.

Wow. I've read that every year that I've been on the air for 30ome years and I never get over it. Some of you people think I'm a cornball, but it's my show so shut up. I'm just signing up for head cornball. That's me. But I mean, the president of the United States

issues a proclamation to say thank you

to God for his blessings.

And if you didn't hear that in there, you weren't listening.

That's exactly what this says. And uh

it's so far a field from the way people think today and especially people in Washington DC think today. And uh but

man, what a great reminder of the greatness of these men.

>> Yeah. >> And that their source was their faith.

>> Yeah. Well, and the acknowledgement of where they were at, you know, they were not naive to what was going on. And even the line with the >> uh I don't know if I've ever I mean I You said you've read this for every >> Yeah, I read it. Read it every every Thanksgiving Eve. >> Done the show with you on this.

>> It's part of part The other part of the cornball experience. The other part of the cornball experience is as you call in today, you have to tell us what you're thankful for. That's your ticket to own the show. >> There you go. There you go. One thing. I love it. Um, but no, where it was the

the part with those who are mourning and those who are orphaned and widowed. You know what I mean? Like it's it's the reality of the world.

>> And so I like that they don't shy that he doesn't shy away from it. And yet >> rising above to the greatest message of what can be and what we're all, you know what I mean? It it rises you up out of it. >> Yeah. It's a different I Yeah. And and even I mean Seward is Secretary of State, so he goes ahead and sends a message to the uh other countries that

think they might come in while we're weakened and let them know we're at peace with you and you probably want to keep it that way. He just sent a he just sent a little shot out over the bow there. >> This is it. This is what caused Thanks.

Like this is the official >> this is the formation. Now, George George Washington did a proclamation that actually I don't know whether AI's

got this wrong because it's picking it up out of Reddit because nothing you read on Reddit's true, but uh somebody posted a thing the other day that sounded similar to this from Washington.

So, I don't know if that's a mess up or if Seward stole some of Washington's proclamation, but George Washington did do a Thanksgiving, but this is the time that the actual made it a national holiday, the third, >> the third Thursday of November, and it was in the middle of the Civil War. And it is so poetic and people don't say beneficent anymore.

>> I I've never said beneficent in my life except when I've read this. So, um, yeah, that's just I mean it's amazing though when you just say the the the hand of the Almighty.

>> Yeah. >> I mean that this is vernacular that we don't use and we probably should.

>> Hello. We probably ought to step back and go, who is really in charge here.

Guess what? It's not a Republican or a Democrat. Get Thank God. You know, I

mean, because they can mess up Christmas and Thanksgiving and so I mean, my gosh.

But I thank God, you know, thank God it is God that the al that watchful providence of almighty God.

>> And the almighty hand to heal the wounds of a nation. Yeah. >> And to restore it. >> It's beautiful. >> Yep. >> Beautiful. Very poetic. >> Oh, happy Thanksgiving y'all. >> Happy Thanksgiving. Amen. Open phones here at8255225.

Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay later. But that mindset always leads straight to debt and postol

stress. Fair winds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debtree just like we

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which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe it this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have. To avoid that January budget hangover, and to be free from debt traps, go to fair winds.org/ramsey

to open your smart bundle and get your Ramsey beweird debit card today. That's

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insured by the NCUA.

Bradley is with us in Oregon. Happy Thanksgiving, Bradley. What are you thankful for?

>> I am thankful to live in America.

>> Amen. >> A lot of countries in the world like, you know what, for all the problems in America, I'd rather take care. I'm thankful that almighty God put me here.

>> Amen. Amen. Thank you, sir. How can we help? >> Yeah, quick question. This might be one of the shorter calls on the Ramsey show.

My question is, where in the baby steps is a person financially secure enough to quit a job that they don't like and start doing what they do want to do? My current job is paying decently well, but otherwise I don't like it. As soon as I get to the point where I know that I can quit, I will hand them my resignation notice. >> What would you go do?

>> What's that? >> What would you go do?

training and um training horses and trimming their hooves. I can make pretty good money underneath a horse. The only problem is that I need to get the clientele built up. And so there'd be a couple month time lag there that I need to have some >> So what is it called? A f a frier.

Frier. What's it called? >> A frier. >> Frier. Yeah. >> Frier. Um horseshoeing trimming that kind of thing. >> Okay. And so uh why can't you start that as a side hustle?

I I do that on Saturdays and holidays and evenings and stuff like that as I do my current job. I'm working up to 60 hours a week. Um so there's not always a

whole lot of time in evenings >> and stuff like that. >> Can you dial back the hours on the job you hate?

>> Unfortunately, no. >> Okay. Cuz what I'd love to do is um it's

not a baby steps thing and it's not really a how much money you have in the bank thing. It's a can you when you can get your income on the frier uh side hustle up close to your current income

then it make you know you can make as much doing that then go do something you like instead of something you hate right

>> so what are you making as a frier what what was your income last year >> well I don't it's not a full-time it's just >> I know did you not pay taxes on it

>> um >> no okay so what did you make do you have any idea >> it's about1 $100 an hour when I do it.

So, a Saturday could be $300, $400

without any problem at all.

>> So, let's say you're making a couple grand a month on a good month.

>> Yeah. >> What do you make at your day job?

>> About 5,000.

>> Okay. >> A month. >> All right. So, how close do you want to get the 2,000 to the 5,000 before you

walk out is the question. Pretty close.

I want to step into the boat. I don't want to leap to the boat.

>> Right. Exactly. So, I'm going to figure out some way to dial up the side hustle and get that moving. And the only other thing you could do is just pile up a huge pile of cash to cover you till I make the transition. But honestly, I've had people that that that screws them up because then they live out of that cash instead of making their business work.

They don't want you to make this new business work and know that it's going to work and know there's enough horses in your area, enough business in your area for you to make $500, $6,000 a month. And do you feel like realistically, Bradley, that that's that's possible?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely possible. There's quite a bit of money in this area and a lot of horses um

pastor ordinance kind of thing >> for your uh who's your competition country.

>> Not very many people. Unfortunately, failures have a reputation for not returning calls and stuff like that. So, anybody that returns calls and >> So, if you're price reasonable and you're price reasonable and return the call and show up, business is going to be all over you.

>> Probably, >> Bradley, for a month, how much does it take to operate your household where you're not stressed, but you're like, you're comfortable? >> Uh, 4,000 is pretty tight.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Does your wife work?

>> She's a full-time stay-at-home mom. She works more than I do.

>> I didn't mean that. I mean, she I should have said, does she earn an income? I'm sorry. Okay. Uh, no is the answer. So, um, she does not earn an income.

>> Yeah. I just want you to get close to where you're not just, you know, jumping off and praying there's water in the pool, right?

>> Mhm. >> So, that that and the only way to do that is some I I would prescribe and I've done this. That's why I can say it.

I I would prescribe that you take your side hustle and make it highly uncomfortable for a year because you're working like an absolute maniac to prove to yourself and your wife that you can make a living doing that by getting your income up to three four $5,000 a month on the side hustle and push back on your existing job. Try to get as much time as you can away from them legally without hurting them in any way and that kind of thing. But 60 hours is pretty much a stretch. uh if they get if you can get dialed back towards 40, you could really use that extra hours to crank up.

And that means you're not going to see a television or a sporting event, you're going to be doing horses hooves for a year, dude.

prove to yourself that you can do this, walking out on the other thing is very easy. >> Yeah. >> Let me give you an example. Let's pretend, and this can't happen, but let's pretend that you you could make $7,000 a month with a side hustle. You could quit your job in about 30 seconds, right?

>> That's what I'm trying to get you toward. You're not going to get to seven, but if I can get you close to the five, then it's easy to make this decision.

>> Well, and I assume, too, if there's people around, if you're making 2 to 3,000 on just Saturdays and nights, you

can easily pick up another thousand. So, to me, it feels feels doable.

>> Yeah. I think what I'm telling you is crank up the intensity about six notches on the side hustle to prove to yourself that it's okay to quit and make it your full-time gig.

>> Mhm. >> That's the prescription. It's not a baby step thing. And it's not you got to have $10,000 in the bank. It's not any of that. Cuz if you had $40,000 in the bank and you burn $4,000 a month in 10 months cuz you suck at doing this business on the side and it doesn't pan out, all you did is quit your job and go broke.

And that's not what I want you to do.

And sometimes people do that stuff. So doing it this way makes you prove to yourself that the market is there, that you can make a living doing this, and you build it and grow it from there. And that's exactly the direction I would go.

Aby's with us in Virginia Beach. Hey Abby, what are you thankful for?

>> Hi, I'm thankful for family. I have um a

husband and two little babies right now.

>> Busy at your house. How can we help today?

>> Um, so I have a question about debt and then buying a car and then renting versus buying. But anyway, my husband and I are on baby step number two. We have about $50,000 left in our debt. Um,

and we have 202 right now and we're

thinking about purchasing a new car just because with two little kids, um, our cars are cramped right now. Um, and then also, um, we're renting currently. My

husband's in the military, but we were thinking about buying a house. So, I was just curious what your perspective on those would be. >> Are the cars are they running okay, Abby?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, they're both 2015s. Um,

my car I mean they're they're both, you know, 10 years right now. So, they are starting to have little things like I just replaced my AC a couple months ago.

Um, my husband just had to get something done on his car. I can't remember. But they're both kind of like having small hiccups currently. >> Yeah. And do you guys have any money saved?

>> We do. We have about $17,000

in like our savings emergency fund.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And how much debt do you have? 50.

>> Yeah. So I would >> about 50. Yeah. It's student loan debt.

My husband went to law school, so we've paid about 25,000 of it or no, I'm sorry, about 30,000 of it, but we have 50 to go. >> Okay. Well, yeah. So, I would honestly, Abby, I would throw that money at the debt and I would I would be driving the cars until you guys are out of baby step, too.

So, no, you don't need to buy a house. And I really wouldn't even buy a new car. I mean, I would I would push myself and it is I know there's probably so much stuff.

um, >> what's your household income?

>> Um, he makes about hundred,000 a year.

>> All right. So, if you put se if you put 16 of the 17 on the debt, had $1,000,

which is the true baby, then you would actually be on baby step two. Right now, you're not. >> Okay. Okay. >> Then you would have $33,000 left and you make $100,000 a year and you live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you attack this debt with a vengeance.

Aren't you out of debt in a year?

>> Yeah, I would hope so. >> I would hope so, too. And so one year from now you move up in cars and then you start saving towards your emergency fund and then you start saving towards a house. >> Okay. I guess to not hold you guys up

but also with the like attacking the

debt is it

I guess how do I say this? Um, I don't

work. I'm a stay-at-home mom. So, like sometimes trying to adapt debt is hard because I

don't work. >> No, it's not hard. You make your husband makes $100,000 a year. You need 33. That

leaves 67.

That's if you want to do some side stuff, that's fine. But you have two littles. You being at home, we're not going to shame you for if that's what you're asking. But you know, buckle the kids in the tight little car for a year and get yourself clear, girl. And then you can go live a good life.

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Brian is in Oregon. Brian, what are you thankful for on this Thanksgiving Eve?

Uh, >> family for sure. >> Amen. How can we help today?

>> So, uh, thanks for taking my call. My fiance and I are having a debate we want your help with. So, uh, May 8th of 26,

we will be blending families and we'll have we have five children at 30, 29,

28, 27, and 23. I have uh two life

insurance policy, one that she is the sole beneficiary of, and then one that my children would be the sole

beneficiaries of. So, um, she

thinks that I should leave both policies to her and let her distribute that equally and which I'm not in disagreement with. I just we're just kind of looking for some direction that way. >> Okay. The purpose of life insurance is not to leave an estate. The purpose of life insurance is to support the people you leave behind that are counting on your income to eat. None of those grown people should be counting on your income to eat.

Okay. >> And so I would not keep a life insurance in order to distribute to them whether directly or indirectly through her.

That's not a reason to keep life insurance. Um I wouldn't go to the expense. I would use my money bill wealth and let that be distributed to either her or them in the will. Um and

you can decide that then. So uh what do you make >> a year? >> Mhm.

>> Well, that's a that's a great question.

uh um barely graduated from high school,

almost uh flunked out of college, but um

withdrew before they kicked me out, and I make probably about 180 a year.

>> Well, sounds like you've overachieved.

Well done.

>> Good for you, buddy. What do you do, man? That's awesome.

>> Well, I I I'm blessed. I I have a dream

job. I uh I'm an electrical inspector

and then I have a side hustle.

>> Good for you. And what does your fiance do? >> She's a teacher. >> Ah, okay. So, she makes what?

>> Uh, she makes maybe 60 to 70 a year.

>> Okay, cool. All right. So, what I would do is put your new household together in such a way that if something happened to you that she's in good shape.

>> That's what insurance is for. And the same thing vice versa. If you're dependent upon her 70 a year to eat, then we would want to replace that income by having a lump sum to invest.

And that's what life insurance is for.

But to leave it to a 31-year-old child, no, not in a chance. I'm not keeping that. I'll put that money in my pocket.

And tell till >> I want you to know that she's probably smiling very big right now because she

said that very same thing.

>> Oh, wow. So I do wonder though it's always hard with blended families when you get married later and you have adult children and a new spouse enters when you are redoing your will your estate

>> very difficult figure.

>> So that would be more of a question Brian I think for your kids of what's left to them of yours. Um,

>> I mean, let's let's say yall have let's say you had a million dollars in your 401ks, right? Saying >> instead of life insurance, we're changing the discussion to keep the but to keep the spirit of the question alive for a second. Um, yeah, what would we do with that? How do you distribute that to a blended family? Uh, well, the first thing I would do, um, I don't know.

Okay. So, um or like if you came into

this marriage with some money as an example, that that that kind of in your mind is allocated to your kids >> upon your death more than your spouse, but you obviously love this person and want to take care of them with some of the money you're bringing into the marriage. So, that's something that's the same sticky wicket as they say that you've got to have that same exact discussion but with a different product.

Not life insurance, but a pile of wealth. If you don't have a pile of wealth today, you don't have to figure that out. But it's it does it is a good

thing. It's a healthy discussion to have

especially in the fiance stage.

>> Well, that's what I was wondering with your fiance where the spirit was don't

leave them anything. They're fine. Or was it oh no, it's life insurance. They don't need life insurance. Do you know what I mean? I'm sure that's what I was trying to gauge of um >> Yeah. No, I think it's I think it's more of what you said that they're 30 year olds. They don't need any kind of large lump sum of money to and and it's not that she wouldn't distribute it equally.

It's just that I just >> had a notion that I just wanted to do it that way. But >> well, I mean, so what I what I would tell you guys to work through a similar question. So the question is she wins on the life insurance thing. Okay, you you don't need life insurance to do that. So let's don't do that. But now let's have a similar discussion that says as we build wealth, if I die before you or you

die before me, how much of it's going to be left to the remaining spouse and how much of it's going to be left to the kiddos?

And um if if you guys are starting without much wealth right now, you're starting your new marriage without a big net worth, it probably would just be it

all goes to spouse and the spouse figures it out. Mhm. >> But often times when you got blended, you're come, one of you is coming into the like I own a house and I got $400,000 worth of equity in that.

>> Okay. And the fiance's how how does that

go to the fiance's kids, >> right? >> You know, that doesn't make sense kind of, you know, and you kind of got to go I don't now I got to talk through that.

And these are good healthy discussions

because it makes you work through um

>> because what >> you know what what because people assume things. >> Yes. >> And you don't want to assume things >> and what he just said a little bit of like well she just said they don't need a big pile of money.

>> Okay. Well they don't need a big pile of money from a life insurance policy because that's that's not the reason for life. But do they need a big pile of money from their dad who worked hard and has some and then you just get you know what I mean? That's a different pile of money. Yeah. And I don't know how to I I don't know.

Uh but that's that's a decision and discussions you guys have to have when it comes to your will and your estate and your assets.

>> Um >> that's that's hard. That's hard. But it is the reason it's important is to come if you can come into alignment on those kinds of things when uh there are no uh

uh emotions or limited emotions because

we're not in the middle of grief or we're not in the middle of a cancer diagnosis or we're not in the middle of

>> uh an argument after death with the ones left behind. Uh you know, well, daddy always said he's going to give it to me and now look at that gold digger. She took it all. You know, that kind of crap, right?

And that's exactly how it sounds 99% of the time if you don't work this stuff out ahead of time. So you need to work it out ahead of time because you guys coming into agreement on that is more important for your marriage and your relationship than it is actually about the distribution of the money. >> Yeah. And the health of the family after you know >> and everybody and then everybody knows >> Yes.

>> You know. >> Yes.

>> That's what just like the cereal. You get nut and honey. That's the deal.

>> What's that? >> It's a cereal.

>> Cheerios. >> Honey Nut Cheerios. >> Yeah. Nut and honey. Yeah. It's It's a thing. >> Probably in the early 80s. That's >> Well, it might have been in the 70s. I don't know. I have flashbacks these days. It's my age. So, um

>> flashbacks from commercials from the 60s, but yeah. >> Oh my gosh. >> Uh anyway, that's what you get. Nothing, honey. I mean, you tell them upfront.

Everyone needs a will. And if you're going to piss somebody off with a will, do it while you're alive. Don't leave it

to the people left behind to do all all the getting everybody getting pissed off thing. Go ahead and deal with it. Have the backbone to implement it. Have a reading of the will while you're alive.

It's highly uncomfortable. I call it the Monty Python meeting because I sit there and listen to what's going to happen when I die that I have planned out and I'm going, it's just a flesh wound. I'm feeling much better. You know, I'm really not sick.

And so, you know, >> when Dave dies meeting, that's like basically what's on our calendar. That's what we call it. When Dave dies meeting, you know, once a year and everybody knows that way. There's no freaking confusion.

And it's really healthy for everyone involved, but particularly >> the husband and the wife, >> which means to do a will. We had our money and marriage event um Dr. Deloney and I a few weeks ago and we were walking through a financial checklist in one of the sessions talking through I mean it was kind of boring. I was like free spirits, you got to stay with me because it's kind of like a boring boring adult stuff.

about a will for a good bit of just what that looks like, what to do. And then afterwards, at the end of the whole weekend, we had people write what they're going to do with their marriage when they leave, you know, certain things they're going to implement. Um, and we, you know, I was thinking like communication, you know, our thoughts about intimacy, like all these big discussions we talk about. There were so many that said we're making a will, which means they don't have one.

So, it's a reminder to all of you out there, make a will. Mama Bear Legal Forms is a great site. >> We need to get Mama Bear to throw that in in the package when they come all the way over. >> I'm not kidding.

The amount of people that were like, "We're going to do a will. >> Do a wheel while you're sitting here." >> You like you have to work. So do a state specific.

You can save the fees for all the attorneys and everything. If your net worth's over a million dollars, you need to do a, you know, a more detailed one.

But I'm telling you, do a will.

>> When'd you do your will at a marriage conference?

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. >> That's exactly >> these are the two options.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

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Jake, what are you thankful for?

>> I'm thankful Christ died for my sins, Dave. >> Amen and amen. >> Better get that. >> Never gets old. Never gets old. The greatest story ever told. How can we help today? >> Amen. Well, I recently read your book,

Total Money Makeover. Uh my wife and I have been kind of paying attention to your show for about a year now and we've been able to merge our finances. We used to have separate accounts uh but we've merged everything together. Uh we've been paying down on our debt, but I would like to be more intense about it and I I don't know how to get her on board with that.

I don't want to be forceful. It's not my will to be forceful about it with her, but I would like us to be more intense and get out of debt. Okay. So, what does that what does that mean practically?

Do you feel like you could be I mean, how much more money do you feel like you could be throwing at the debt per month that you guys are just spending >> quite a bit? Um, we've got we've got two car payments that I would love to get rid of.

She's not on board with that, at least at this time. Um, debtwise, we have just

under 300,000 in debt.

>> Counting your mortgage. >> Um, >> that's everything. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much is that your How much of that's your mortgage?

>> About 184 in a mortgage. We have >> You have $16,000 in debt.

>> No, no, no, no, no. 116,000. Okay. I missed it. Okay. Yeah. 116. Okay.

>> That sounds about right. Y is that what what does that consist of? >> The second mortgage.

>> Okay. >> What's your household what's your household income?

>> About 160 170 a year without overtime.

>> How long y'all been married?

Uh boy, since 2012. I got to think for a minute. Uh 13 years.

>> Okay. >> When did you guys just start this? You said you just read the book and you're starting this process. How long has it been? >> We started this at about the end of March of this year. >> That's when you combined the finances.

>> Yes, sir. We've been talking about doing it for a number of years, but we just never pulled the trigger to get it.

>> What does she do? got ourselves into.

>> She she works for uh

trying to trying to find the words for it. She they they deal with like selling

uh health insurance benefits to businesses. Um she's like a consultant doing that. >> Okay. And what's her um hesitation when

she when you said, "I want to sell the cars," and she doesn't. What's her reasoning behind that?

>> She just doesn't want to. She likes the car. And I don't I don't blame her.

there. I mean, we bought both of them brand new in 2021.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but you know, she she doesn't want

to sell that and get into something unreliable. We live in the north where it's uh winters are harsh and we neither one of us wants to be in something unreliable driving our kids around. But >> yeah. Yeah. Um, out of the 116, how much are the cars? What are the car pay the car loans?

>> The 25,000 owed on hers and 23 on mine. So half

half of it's cars. >> Okay.

>> Yeah. The other half well almost uh and

again 49 is a second mortgage. We have about 18,000 uh in credit card debt

which we've been hammering money and paying down a lot of credit card debt.

So that's >> Have you cut up Have you cut up your credit cards?

>> Uh I have not cut that one up, but it is not >> We don't use How often do you go out to eat?

>> We don't. We cook at home. We uh we I

hunt and and fish, so we provide as much of our food the natural way that we can.

>> Well, that's nice.

>> Well, you got a good place to do that.

Um >> so B, so do you So again, this not

selling cars would not be gazelle intense. I understand that. And then per month, how much could you where else could you be saving money? What else would you cut out that you would if if it was up to you, where are you guys spending that you want to cut?

Um I guess we we budget we budget uh a little bit extra in the

um each month for just you know things

pursuing our own interests I guess.

>> So this mainly comes down to the question of intensity or gazelle intensity ma mainly comes down to the car discussion. Is that what you're saying?

>> 100%. Yeah. All right. That's fair. All

right. So here's here's what I would do. I would just sit and keep having the discussion. What? Here's >> Sell your car, Jake. >> Yeah. That that you can you can lead by selling yours. >> Yep. >> And not hers. >> And I'm looking into that right now. >> Yeah. And but but tell her, but we are

making this decision, not you. Okay. We

are I I'm willing to get rid of mine so that we can advance. And here's the thing. The reason that people don't cut up a credit card, the reason that people continue to go out to eat, the reason that people go on vacation is they don't think they're going to win.

>> If you think you're going to win, you'll sacrifice to win.

>> But if you sacrifice and don't and don't win, no one wants to do that. That's psychotic.

>> Okay? So, selling your cars and then being broke for the next 5 years is not a good plan. That's weird. We We're not asking you to do that.

You're not asking to do that. But right now you're talking about selling a car instead of talking about the dream of what it's going to be like when we don't have a stinking payment in the accept our mortgage and we can actually build some wealth and pay cash for whatever kind of car we want. We're going to live like no one else so that we can live and give like no one else.

The two of you dream together in high definition of what life is going to look like when we finally get all this crap away from us and we're not normal anymore cuz normal sucks. and Jake as

much as you can. I think it's sometimes helpful because it sounds like she's probably more of the free spirit in the relationship. You're probably more of the of the nerd.

>> Would you say that's right? Very much so. >> Okay. So, use your your nerd advantage

and honestly make some >> make some scenarios. I feel like that's always helpful when people feel like that there's just like this is the only thing and like and exactly what Dave was just saying like sell the cars and then it's like okay what's after that? Like what what what are we doing? There's something about having a scenario.

Scenario one, Jake sells his car. Uh we find an extra $800 a month in the budget. Like whatever it is, like boom boom boom boom, we're out of debt in x amount of time, then we're going to be able to save x amount per month to upgrade the car and here's the reality, right? And then scenario number two, if we both sell the car, scenario three, if we don't sell either car and we just pay it off, here's how long we'll be in debt.

So if you can get some details down and you guys look at a couple of different options and different plans of how to get there, how to get to this goal of being debtree, uh it feels more realistic, too. >> Let me give you an example of what Rachel's saying. Let's pretend you didn't have a car and you're calling me and saying, "I want to take out a car payment." And I say, "Well, the average car payment is 500." It's not anymore.

It's a lot higher than that. >> 720, but if you Okay, $750. Okay. So, for 10 months, I want you to save $750.

What is that? $7,500. Buy a $7,500 car for cash 10 months from now. 10 months later, you'll have $7,500. And a $7,500 car doesn't go down much in value, so you can sell it for $7500. Put that with a new $7500, you got a $15,000 car. A scenario is that 20 months from now, you are driving a $15,000 paid for car instead of being saddled with a stupid butt car payment of $750. That's a scenario that shows you a way out. It's taking instead of like drive a hoopty

that doesn't take me anywhere. I I I need something more than that. So, where are we going with this thing? That's what Rachel's saying. And that's the way to handle it, Jake. And you're a good man. She's a good woman. This is going to work out for you guys. It's going to be okay.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Happy Thanksgiving to you. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show.

Ramsay personality, my daughter is my co-host. Thanksgiving around Ramsay. Uh

we're pretty much a cheese factory around here. We like celebrating this stuff and we like Christmas and we like uh anything that makes the kiddos smile which makes Papa Dave smile and makes the mom and daddy smile and that's what turkey does. So uh we're are a thankful

family. We believe in gratitude. We believe in generosity. These are things that bring you great happiness. So when you call in today, your ticket of entry is going to be what you are thankful for. The phone number is88255225.

Mike is with us in Tampa, Florida. Mike, what are you thankful for?

>> I'm thankful for my wife and the life we have here in Florida. >> Awesome. How can we help?

>> Yeah, Dave. Um, my wife and I um have been using every dollar for the last 10 years. We went through Financial Peace University and we've been debtree for 5 years. I'm at retirement age now and we

have um we're a blended family with four adult kids and one of my adult children, a daughter uh eloped with her um now

husband to f to Hawaii last year and

just sent me a text and said that they're going to have a wedding a destination wedding in Spain this summer

and traditionally it's the parents family's responsibilities to pay for that wedding or to contribute. And my

wife and I discussed it. We don't agree with that. They will have been married over two years by the time this event takes place and we don't feel obligated

to uh support support that. Okay. And just wanted to get your advice.

>> I like it. Yeah. I mean, it's your money. So, where did this uh entitlement

that she's entitled for this come from?

Uh, I think she was raised that way by

um my ex.

>> Okay. Was there some of that attitude?

>> Okay. Was there any discussion, Mike, uh, a year ago before they eloped that you guys were going to plan a wedding and you were going to help with it and then they were like, you know what, we don't we just want to elope. You know what I Like was there ever discussions, any expectations that was set at any point that you were going to help >> or is this just a Okay, so that that was never even talked about.

>> Is another daughter gotten married and you paid for it and you said, "Well, well, whatever we did for her, we'll do for everyone." >> Nope. No, I didn't. I didn't. My other my oldest daughter got married, didn't ask for anything. We went to the wedding. >> Oh, wow. Um yeah, but this dollar they

um they waited a month to call us and even tell us they were married and uh we went up as soon as we heard. We uh bought airline tickets, went to where they live. We went up for the weekend to celebrate their wedding, took them out to dinner, spent the weekend with them, and we felt like that that was the right thing to do. >> Yeah, totally. >> And um and now she's it kind of >> and in Spain. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So, how long have you been divorced from her mom?

Oh, 20 years. >> Okay. And she's how old?

>> 33.

>> Okay. So, she was 13,

>> correct? >> Okay. And, um,

so a lot of times in that scenario,

um, you end up build rebuilding a relationship a decade after the divorce.

>> Does that sound right? >> Huh? Yeah. Yeah. U she we had a call

last Sunday and she pretty much unloaded that kind of stuff on me. That goes back to when I remarried. So Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, um the reason I bring that up is the

way you described she didn't tell you she's married, so we're going to go visit. That kind of felt like olive branch stuff from someone you're not real close to.

>> Yeah. I'm not frankly not close with any of my daughters. >> Okay. >> For for pretty much the same reason.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Because divorce is nasty.

Yeah. And um Yeah.

>> Okay. So then this request is not

entitlement. It's a guilt trip.

>> Uh partially and partially I think it is. I think she does have what I call the princess complex. She she feels like she comes for money and >> Yeah. Um, let me >> She'd have to go find that source cuz you're apparently not it.

>> Maybe you have it, but that doesn't mean it's hers. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm um, you know, uh, so here's the thing. Pick up a

book by Dr. Henry Cloud called Boundaries and you and your current wife read that

because you need to be prepared. She does not respect boundaries. And when you set boundaries with a boundaryless person, they seldom react positively.

In other words, there's not any version of no, she's going to be okay with,

>> right?

>> And um and so I just want you to be prepared for that cuz there's some heartbreak that goes with that. So, I mean, you've been trying to reach out. You've been trying to re-engage as her dad, as an adult dad, a dad of an adult

daughter, and now she's coming in with this wild thing, and it's going to harm

whatever positive moves you've made.

But that is also the proper still the proper thing to do. But I just want you to know it's not this is not going to be easy for you. It's going to hurt,

>> right? >> Cuz she's going to throw a fit and say, "I'm never going to speak to you again." or something like that. >> Well, she's going to turn into the victim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Already. >> You've never been there for me and you're not there for me now, you know, in this kind of bull crap, right?

>> Yes, sir. Exact. That's the exact conversation we had last week.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you've already told her you already told her no.

>> Yes. I I She She basically pushed it.

So, I called her to ask her, you know, why why this place? why they felt like

they needed to have another event after they were already married. Uh it didn't make sense to me. And they they both went and got a master MBAs and I I don't

think financially um that they should be spending money on a destination. I think they've probably got some um student debt. I don't know.

I don't know their finances, but I would assume I would assume that. And um so so

yeah, I I just don't think they're making wise decisions and um and I I

actually shared that I thought maybe they could have made a different decision. They didn't like she didn't like my answer. >> Yeah, >> I I there's no form of no, but piling on

to their financial decisions, it probably didn't help at all. So, um, but the, um, anyway, I I think I would just keep it very clean and very simple and just say, "Listen, my love for you and my desire to have a relationship with you guys going forward has nothing to do with money and it has nothing to do with how you handle your money and it has nothing to do with Spain. Um, uh, you know, I but I'm not I I don't feel at

this stage, the way our relationship is today, the way your life is built today, we don't feel good about this. And so, we're not willing to pay for this. I'm so sorry. I know you probably don't understand that and I I I'm prepared for

you to not understand that, but >> Yeah. And I almost would be I would caution putting it on a condition

on her. I wonder if it's a hey, we've talked and we've decided we're we're we're choosing not to spend this money.

>> We're looking at the situation >> and my hope is that Mike, you know, that there is some reconciliation in the relationship, but again, this is going to >> make it be a barrier to that, which is so sad. You know what? U it was going so well until she started demanding things.

>> Right. Right. So >> we we like we like the husband. We we offered to come and support the event.

We just and we told her that, you know,

we had put in our budget for all the travel and all to go, but that we just couldn't afford to also contribute. I'm not going to pay for it. I don't think you're wrong. I don't think you're wrong at all. I just want you to be prepared for the backlash. I'm sorry.

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Click the link in the description if you want. That might be the easiest way to get there. Thomas is with us in Austin, Texas. Thomas, what are you thankful for?

>> Hi, uh, my wife and kids.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I'm on baby set 3. They've been doing great, following off plan, and recently I got approached by a family member about some uh financial advising.

So, we did a couple sessions, but now they're trying to tell me that my term life policy is not great and I should be getting disability insurance and term 80, and it just all feels like more of a self ditch than financial advising. And,

you know, a family member, I don't know how to think about it. Am I crazy? and

and I just don't know how to approach that.

>> Okay. So, what you're telling me is is that you smell stink.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Then end the conversation.

>> Absolutely. The first sessions were great. But >> I don't I don't care what they're selling. Even if what they're selling is good, you always end the conversation

around money when you smell stink

because your smeller is better than anything out there.

Trust your instincts is what I'm saying.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I don't know what this product is.

You haven't described it. I don't even know what the family member does. I don't know if they know what they were doing. Maybe they were changing oil at Jiffy Lube 3 weeks ago. Now they're a financial planner. That happens fairly often. Okay. I don't know any of that.

But you smell stink, Thomas, and I trust your smell.

Just end it based on that. to say, "Listen, thank you for the help so far.

We love you. We're just going to remain good family members and we're not going to move forward with any financial products with a family member at this time." >> Have you already put your money with them, Thomas?

>> No, not yet. >> Okay. Okay. >> Don't >> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, just stay with what I got.

Stay the course. >> Yeah. Don't Don't argue about the products. Don't argue about family.

Don't argue. No is a complete sentence.

This is a very quick, calm, kind sentence. We've talked about

it, my wife and I, and we've decided not to move forward with any financial problems at this time. >> Yeah. And we just want to keep our money and our family members separate. And it just feels cleaner that way. And >> thank you. Thank you for offering all this. We appreciate it. Have a good night. Bye-bye. It's like a It's like a 15 or a 20 second thing here. We're not getting into a dayong debate about this.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, what I want to do is give you give the power back to you. >> How close is the family member, Thomas?

Is it a sibling? Is it a aunt or uncle?

>> No, it's a cousin.

>> It's a cousin. Okay. >> Cousin Eddie.

>> Yeah. It's got stink on it. So, uh

listen, here's the thing. How long's this How long's cousin been in the business? Financial business.

>> Uh uh couple months. He just graduated college this year and started moving.

>> Yeah. So, I think you're good. >> Yeah. So, you're you're smelling the right smell. Let me tell you about the business. Okay. From the outside in, just to give you some more power. I don't want you to share any of this with cousin. >> I just want you to have the knowledge base, okay? Because it will give you some strength.

80% of the people that start selling life insurance are out of the business in 12

months.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. Here's what the life insurance business is based on. They hire your cousin so he can work what's called his

natural market. That's what they call it. his natural market are people that he has influence with, not because of his financial ability, but because of his relationships. And so he calls his old friends from high school, his fraternity brothers from college, he calls his wife's friend on the soccer

field, he calls all of his cousins, and

he sits down. And once he's run his run through that list, he's out of prospects

and he goes out of business because they don't furnish him any new leads.

They use people to get to their

relationships. That's their marketing model. It's called working the natural market.

And that's why 80% of them once they run through their natural list, they're out of the business. And that doesn't mean they're bad people, but your cousin is quite frankly being taken advantage of.

You see what I'm saying? So if you put your money with them, you're not going to be working with him in a year. He won't be there anymore 80% of the time.

So he couldn't get a better job. This is the one he took. Let's just >> or he fell for a sales pitch of how much

money he could make and >> Yeah. Yeah. All the things and all that bull crap. So, please walk away.

And and um >> and especially and and let me just give you this. I'm like, he just graduated college a few months. I'm like, he's just a kid. So, like genuinely, if he was like had been in the business for 30 years and he had a reputation, do you know what I mean, though?

And like I think it would be kind of a harder kind of slap in the face of like, dude, this is my job. I've been doing this for 30 years. And you know what I mean? If it's your old uncle and and he's good at it, it'd be kind of like, sorry, that's awkward.

But he's like a 21-year-old who just started this. So I'm like, "Yeah, you're good." >> He's selling knives next week and we don't want to buy the knives either. Thank you, >> Cutco.

>> Yeah, but guess who sells them? Same exact model, >> which is great. >> Same exact model. You go sell your grandma, you go sell your aunt some knives and then you're out of the business.

And that's what you work your natural markets. Exact same pots and pans thing. It's an old marketing dist distribution method. It's been around >> for long.

It's not a And it's not a Okay. Well, I don't know. >> If you don't think the person's going to succeed once they finish working their list and you're only hiring them to access their list, that is wrong. Yes, that's ethically wrong.

I I >> That's fair. That's fair. Okay. >> So, um Yeah.

But >> think about the Girl Scouts, you know, they go to the neighbors. They >> I don't know.

>> But the Girl Scouts are not making a career off of your money. That's fair. Okay. That's fair. >> They're just making you fat with the thin mints. >> Yeah. We love the Girl Scouts. We love you. And so, yeah, that Yeah. Well, that's it. That's how the thing works.

Now, uh, so there's

a good rule of thumb, uh, tr what I'm

trying to get you to do, everybody out here, is trust your instincts. Okay? Uh,

I I just love the proverb that says, "The simple sees danger and moves forward and is harmed for it.

The wise senses danger and seeks refuge

and becomes safe." And so when we go against this smell

test, every one of us have that moment.

We're in the middle of b doing something stupid with money and you have the opportunity to not do it and you go, I

knew better. I knew better. How many of you have done something dumb and you look back and you go right in the middle of it, I knew it, but I just was caught up in the moment. I was caught up and it was a family member and I just felt guilty and I felt trapped and bad d and you you knew though that it was bad. And

Thomas, I'm just telling you, man, trust the smell. And it doesn't mean your cousin's a bad dude. I'm not saying that. I'm not even sure these products are bad. I think they probably are. I think it's probably whole life bull crap, but um but I'm not sure. I don't

know who what it is or what he's selling. Um doesn't matter. The point is

you don't need to be doing business with him. And because the hair stood up on

the back of your neck, rattlesnake in the bush. That's what happens. Your your body has a physical reaction when you sense danger. And it's it's the lizard

brain prompting you and going, "Don't do it. Smells bad." >> Mhm. >> Skunk in the bush. Don't get over there.

You know, it's it's a simple thing. But we we we get all all of us get all intellectual and sophisticated and rationalize our way past >> and want to be nice. That's another thing. >> And we want to be nice. We want pass, you know, and we just walk right past the stink right into the skunk.

>> Yep. Yep. There's a book the gift of fear and it's a guy who was who used to do security but he wrote this whole book and mostly towards women about I mean physical safety but how many stories it's like oh I got a bad feeling but I still let him help me unload my groceries to my door you know what I mean like bad things happen and it's like that whole I mean that's like his number one thing and don't don't be afraid that like you know you want to be a kind person but sometimes it's like you don't have to be nice it's okay like it's real not nice than dead the gut the gut reaction is True.

So Thomas, whether it's this or something else, >> trust trust your instincts. >> God, it's God's spirit in you speaking up. It's saying, "Don't do it. Don't do it." And uh Thomas, you notice how quickly I took you there, Thomas?

I didn't even know what was going on.

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Well, it t the season. It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsey Show. We want to hear stories from you about how generosity has impacted you. Maybe you've been the giver or the receiver.

Maybe you've been in a had an incredible story that will inspire others to give by something that happened to you or through you. We want to hear about it.

Go to ramiesolutions.com/ask and put giving in the subject line. We do this every year at Christmas time and it is one of our most popular shows.

It's going to be December the 18th. So start sending in your stories now.

ramseyolutions.com/ask.putg put giving in the story line and in the subject line and tell us a little bit about the story and we'll get in touch with you and make you part of our annual giving show. It's very inspiring. John is in Los Angeles. Hey John, how are you? >> I'm doing well Dave. Pleasure to talk to you today. >> You too. How can we help?

>> Um so a quick question for you. Little advice. I have a feeling I know what you're going to say but I just need confirmation I guess. Um, so,

uh, father of six, been married for 15

years. Um, income around just north of 200. We have

zero consumer debt. I have a outstanding

mortgage balance of about 220 with a

mortgage rate of about 2.875.

Um, I've come into a sum of money which is about 200.

And so what I want to do, what I think I know I

should do is just pay off the house and

move on with my life. But that's

easier said than done when you're sitting in the driver's seat and you got that interest rate.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> Um there's several there's several layers to the answer.

>> Okay. Um, I'll give you a couple of the layers, a couple of the lenses through which you can look at this uh that that reinforce the answer. Number one, we did

the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, Ramsey Research Team, 10,167 of them. The number of them out of

10,000 millionaires, 89% of them were

first generation rich, meaning they were not inherited money.

Nine out of 10 of America's millionaires are first generation rich. Okay. Then we

start asking, okay, how'd you get there?

What technique did you use? Where'd your money come from? Did you win the lottery? Um, the number of them that

said, I had a good interest rate on my mortgage, so I didn't pay it off and I

invested the difference and that's that made me a millionaire. The number of them that said that is precisely zero.

>> Yeah. So this idea that you use borrowed money on your house to become wealthy is mythology.

It's not true. It doesn't happen in the real world. So your theory is bull crap

is what I'm saying. It's not your theory. It's a theory that floats all through our culture. >> Yeah. But you can just understand how that >> I can understand it, but I'm telling you what I understand how you got there, but I'm telling you what the data says.

>> Okay. So that's one way of looking at it. The second way of looking at is through a spiritual lens. The borrower is slave to the lender. And people react

to their careers differently and their

generosity differently when they don't have a house payment.

>> Yeah. >> Regardless of the interest rate.

And so they tend to maximize their careers because they're not trapped.

>> Yeah. and they don't feel like they have to put up with some unethical or inefficient or crummy job because they got this stupid house payment even though the interest rate's great.

>> And John, out of all the people we've talked to throughout the years, whether it's at events on the show and people

that have paid off their house, and we ask them, do you regret it? Do you hate having a paidoff house?

>> Precisely zero. Nobody Nobody regrets it. And even if you do regret it, you can go fill out a mortgage.

>> If you want to Google Dave, >> if you want to Google Dave Ramsey sucks, you'll see a lot of reasons that I suck.

>> Oh yeah. >> But never never one time will you see

that Dave told me to pay off my house and I hate him.

There's not one. They'll tell you I suck for a lot of other reasons. That I'm awful. >> No, I don't think you suck. I know, but I'm just saying it's just of all the of all the trolling and all the critics we get, they're all people that haven't paid off their houses.

>> But we don't get people that paid off their house cuz I told them to that are mad at me. None. Zero. Nada. So do it.

Pay it off and enjoy your great life, dude. And if you hate being debtree, go

get you a new mortgage later. You know, you can always go back in debt. I promise you they'll put your butt there if you want to be there.

Tyler is in Atlanta. Hey Tyler, what's up? >> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What are you thankful for today?

>> H just another grateful day on earth.

That's that's all you can wish for.

>> Amen. >> How can we help?

>> Um so me and my wife, we got married in

May. Um we actually we got uh married at

the courthouse. Um but we're having a wedding in March of next year. Um, so not a lot of people know that we're married and we live in Atlanta now and

we're going to move back home down south. Um, we have a couple thousand

saved up in the bank. My wife wants to buy a house um, immediately when we

move, but I want to live with my parents

or her parents for a couple months and save up even more for a bigger down payment so we don't have >> more of a payment on a house. Um, >> and be able to save for >> How old are you guys? Uh I am 24, she is

26. >> Now what's your household income, sir?

>> Uh 8 grand a month.

>> Okay. There's nothing evil about any of the choices that you put in front of me.

Uh there's only things that are smarter.

One thing's smarter than another thing.

That's the only question. Okay? So in other words, if you do any of these things, you're probably not going to ruin your life. You follow me? So, if

you move in with your parents, probably not going to kill you for a little while. If you go buy a house, probably not going to kill you. My answer is I wouldn't do either one of those things.

>> I'd go rent a one-bedroom apartment for a year as cheap as I possibly could over

the garage of a rich old lady's house and mow her grass for half the rent and pile up as much cash as you can pile and don't be living with your mommy.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

And I'd pile up as much cash as I could pile up and learn the neighborhood and learn the area because it takes a year of being married to know how far from your mother-in-law you should buy.

>> Yeah, they're great people. They're great people. So,

>> I'm talking about your wife.

>> Yeah. Tyler, be be newlyweds and not go

share a kitchen with your parents. Like just >> Yeah. You make eight grand a month. You're killing it. >> Yeah. Just go y'all go rent somewhere for a year. >> And you're going to a small town. I got a feeling. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we're in Whose Whose

town is it? Yours or hers?

>> It's actually both of ours. We both uh We both grew up there. Both of our parents are there. Um we're in So you

know the town. >> Are you Tyler? Are you guys debt free consumer debt wise or y'all have payments? >> Um, so we have a little bit of debt. Uh,

probably altogether it's probably 10 grand, but we have 70 in the savings.

>> 70,000.

>> Yeah, 70,000 savings.

>> Okay. Well, >> um, >> okay. >> We our six grand is for our honeymoon

and then we have some other pay that pay that off tonight, honey.

Okay. >> It's not It's not a pet. Get rid of it.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. It's not It's not the case. >> Yeah. And then you guys figure out, you know, your emergency fund, which is going to be part of the 70. And then beyond that, what you want to save in a year to for a down payment because you guys are getting get close. And with a small town, hopefully housing prices, you know, it's not like the Bay Area. So hopefully you can get into something >> and y'all be great.

>> Yeah. And I can modify it a little bit since I found out both of you are from there and it's a small geographical area. You already know the town >> so I don't have to give you a whole year but at least 6 months. Just go rent something for 6 months.

Get settled in become married people. Everybody knows you're married. It's a March thing happens all that stuff. And then you start looking for a house and by then you can have saved up a little bit more money.

>> And that's quick.

>> You guys are going to be fine. You're going to be fine. Just Yeah. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint. You're doing good.

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Sylvia is in Seattle. Hey, Sylvia, what are you thankful for?

>> Uh, well, Dave, uh, this is a hard Thanksgiving. Um, my sister died a few months ago. I'm sorry.

>> Oh, uh, the holidays are difficult to

say the least, but I do have things to be thankful for and, um, so I'm trying,

she would want me to live and not to,

you know, just survive. So, that's what I'm trying to do. And, um, >> good for you. >> And so, thank you for asking.

>> That's a healthy outlook. So yeah, you know, people need to real I'm a registered nurse and so people need to understand how important your health is.

>> Um Dave, real quick, I'm a registered

nurse. I retire in June. Um 40 years um emergency and

pandemic and such. Um, I was raised I'm

the youngest of seven army brat and was raised by parents in the depression telling us um to uh pay yourself first.

Know the difference between wants and needs and to save. And so that's what

I've been doing. Uh currently I have a

home I just bought a year ago after losing one in the recession in 08.

Um took me a while to build back up, but I bought a year ago. That's my only um

debt. That that mortgage is 3,400 a

month. I uh have an emermergency fund of

about 130,000. I have investments of

about 1.2 million. I'm getting uh I'll

get 3500 in social security and 2,000 in

a pension.

My question to you, which is different from most, is I've my whole life, my

father's um voices in my ear to save save. Um my

financial counselor now tells me, Enid, it's it's time to um to rent or to um to

start spending.

So, I don't know how because in my head

it's like keep saving, keep saving. And

so I wondered if you could help me um or

give me some advice as how I flip that switch. >> Yeah. >> And and start to live because my sister would want me >> one one detail. Uh what is the balance on your mortgage?

>> 500.

>> Okay.

All right. Um

to your question then uh there are only

three things that we can do with money.

We can we can save it and invest it, which you have done with glory. You're a millionaire. Way to go. Congratulations.

By the way, what's the home worth?

>> Uh about 850.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're worth aboutund You're worth about $1.5 million is your net worth. Okay. And the um

So, that's absolutely incredible. You're a millionaire nurse at 66 years old and

uh you're obviously with the language you're using single. Were you ever married?

>> I was um part of that whole early on uh

in my 40s um I uh we got divorced and um

he had debt that I had to >> Yeah. >> pay off. So, you know, >> so that also that also left a mark.

Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So, so

again, there's three things that we can do. So, Rachel and I wrote a book years ago was her first number one bestseller called Smart Money Smart Kids on teaching children how to handle money.

And we taught children that there are three things that they can do with money. And parents job is to teach them to do all three things. To give, to save, and to spend wisely.

Okay? and to teach them to work, which is where money comes from to do all three of those things. Okay? So, that that's the lessons we teach kids. As adults, there's only three things we can do with money. We can give it, we can save it, and we can enjoy it or spend it, which is what your counselor is saying. Now, we don't want to ever do

just one because it's not a well-rounded

life. And that's what your counselor is saying. You become an expert saver. Your savings muscle is really big. You have

big muscles on the savings side. Your

spending muscle is puny.

Your giving muscle is probably underdeveloped.

Am I right?

>> Um >> not accusing you of being greedy. I'm just saying you don't give a lot of money. >> I, you know, give to uh give to my church. what I have done. Um I don't have children and um my will I finished

my will. >> I'm talking about your monthly giving in your budget.

>> Yeah. So it's my other than um to my church and what have you. Yeah. And >> Yeah. And that's 50 bucks or 100 bucks or something. Yeah.

>> Right. >> Yeah. Okay. That that's what I'm saying.

So uh and you're a millionaire almost a multi-millionaire. So, I want you to increase your giving.

I don't care to what. And I want you to

increase your spending. Now, I don't want you to be irresponsible.

If you're 1.2 million is invested in mutual funds, it should be producing about $10,000 a month in income. You

don't need that much income.

>> Yeah. How much income do you you're going to have 3500 already coming in >> and 2,000 with a pension >> and two and so you're going to be at 5,500 coming in. Can you live on that comfortably?

>> I'm living on that now. So >> Okay. >> You know. >> All right. Good. I mean, do you want to live on that or do you want to spend more than that?

>> I mean, uh, both my sisters, you know, as I told you, recently passed. We're going to do some things once I retired. They already had. Now they're gone. Um, you know, I

guess I'll, you know, I don't know what I'm I've got to start thinking about what I'm going to do when I retire. Um, as a nurse, um, >> travel, >> you know, I don't I >> right. I don't want to travel by myself, but yes, I can I can travel. Um, >> okay.

>> Yeah, I got to start thinking about this stuff. And yes, I will be giving away my money. My sister did. >> I don't mean I'm not saying All I'm saying is is that I want you instead of giving a hundred bucks away a month, I want you to give away a thousand a month.

Yeah.

needs some groceries, you know, >> right? >> And just just because there's great joy in that. And then and then I want you to look up and I want you to say, "I'm making $10,000 a month on my investments above what I need to live.

What does that look like on spending?

What are we going to spend that some of that on? I don't want you to spend it all." But let here's the point. If you

spend $15,000 a month for the rest of your life,

including your pension income and your investment income, you will die with $1.2 million.

You're okay. You did it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> That and if you get that math in your head, then it gives you permission not to be crazy. I don't want you to go spend 300,000 on a car. That's not what

I'm saying. Okay. But I am saying 15,000

a month is way more than you ever thought about spending it. That blows your mind just saying that, doesn't it?

>> Yes, it does. I can't imagine.

>> Yeah. And I don't think you're going to do that. You're the chances of you overspending are zero.

>> Now, what about this mortgage?

>> Yeah, I'm worried about this mortgage. I want this mortgage to go away.

>> Mhm. That becomes the second part of the goal is we need to clear this debt because it's the most destabilizing thing in your life right now. It's a big

mortgage and I don't really feel good about taking 500,000 out of your 1.2 and paying it off today. Um, but I'm going to start working out of that 15,000 a month and work that mortgage down too.

>> Okay? because I'd like you to have no mortgage and and and and so incre I want you to build up your generosity muscle and your spending muscle >> up to and and your debt reduction muscle, those three things up to 15,000 a month once you start drawing down on

the 1.2. So you sit down with your financial advisor and you start drawing the income off of the 1.2 too to go with

your pension and go with your other stuff and you throw it in a checking account. >> Any part of you would just take like 200 of it and just kind of make a dent.

>> I'd like to get the mortgage down a ways and then just knock it off.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't want to make a front end dent.

I'd make a backend dent probably. I I I just >> She's Yeah. We've first got to get her enjoying the money a little bit.

>> Yes. >> It's time for sure. So, I think you got a good person in your corner, whoever that is counseling you. I like their advice.

Good question, Sylvia. The chances of you overspending are almost zero. No chance we could get you in Congress.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. It's Thanksgiving Eve here at Ramsey, so we are asking you what you're thankful for.

And there's always something to be thankful for. and stopping and as the

old saying says count your blessings is not a bad idea by the way it's your entry to the show today if you want to get on we're going to ask you what you're thankful for that's how it works open phones at825-5225

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one bestselling author my daughter is my co-host today Noah is with us in

Cincinnati hi Noah what's what are you thankful for >> oh gosh too much my family and friends and everything in between. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. Sir, how can we help today?

>> Well, I have been wondering for gosh, a

year or two now uh if I should buy a new

car. Uh my wife has a nice car. It's

probably worth about 20 grand. It's kind of the family car. Um I drive a van for

work and I drive um when I need to. I

have about a $2,000 car and there's

nothing wrong with it and I drive it all the time and I guess I'm I've just I

haven't bought a new car because it feels kind of frivolous because I don't need it and I've been looking at them for for so long and I I just am not sure

if I should do it.

>> How much money do you have, Noah?

>> Um, well, I know what you're going to say. Um, you're going to laugh at me.

I've got probably about 540,000

between investments and and a brokerage account.

>> Okay. What's >> Why would I laugh at you? That's great.

Well done.

>> Yeah. I just uh I guess cuz I'm just so hung up on on buying a car. So, we're going to say you have enough money. Do you have Do you have any debt? >> Yeah.

Uh, no. Just a house.

>> Okay. What do you owe on your house?

How about 200? >> Okay. All right. I'd buy a $10,000 car

and pay off your house.

>> I thought you might say that.

>> How about a $30,000 car?

>> I don't care. You got the money.

>> Okay. >> I don't I don't know why you why you want to go from a 300 to 30,000, but if you want to, I don't care.

>> Um Yeah. >> And what's your household income, sir?

uh about 175.

>> Okay. And so the two cars together would be about 50 and that's way less than half your annual income. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

>> That fits. Pay cash for it and pay off your house. Um and so uh yeah, uh uh

you're not doing anything wrong, but I would move up in car just from a reliability standpoint. And you know,

it's just they don't make them like they used to. Thank god. um new cars and the

newer models are a lot nicer. I mean, >> I've got a 1960 Corvette rebuilt and

>> you know, and I've got a a fairly new Corvette and the new one's a lot better, you know. So, yeah, I I'd move up a little bit, you know, and um the the other one's kind of a cool antique, I mean, but it's not, you know, it's um

Yeah, >> the other one's a better ride. You'll Yeah, enjoy it, Noah.

>> Yeah, enjoy it. You're doing a good job. some fun this holiday laughing at you, but it's just, you know, we're going to give you permission to have lived like no one else. So that somehow makingund

what was $175,000 a year, you amassed 550,000. Now, let's do something smart with it. >> Now, if you said 5 million, I probably would have laughed, but I won't laugh at half a million. Noah, >> that's not the laugh level. The laugh level has seven figures, >> but you can afford it, Noah. So, do it.

Enjoy. Y'all worked hard. You've done it. You've done You've done a great job.

>> Saul's in Boston. Hey, Saul. What's up?

>> Hi there. I'm very good. I'm so excited to be in the phone with you guys.

>> You, too. What's up?

>> Oh, by the way, what are you thankful for?

>> Oh, um, I'm thankful for my friends. Um,

yeah, definitely. I have a great group of friends that I'm super thankful for.

>> I love that. >> Very good. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my husband is 25.

I'm 26 years old. No children. Our household income is $110,000 a year. We

are currently living on my income and saving his income, which is $4,000 a month. Uh next year, we're planning to start a long journey of savings to buy our first home cash. Um we made our

minds that we don't want to owe a penny to anyone ever. And our goal is to save

$500,000.

We live in Massachusetts, so the real estate here is very expensive. Um, we

concluded that we will achieve that in a max of seven years as long as I leave my current job. I have a master's degree and I'm currently working with a career coach to get a higher salary.

Additionally, while saving for the house, we're thinking of maxing out both of our Roth IAS every year so that we

don't fall behind in our retirement goals and then save more aggressively afterwards. But the reason why I'm calling is um one of the biggest arguments in this journey is a house that is worth 500,000 now could very much be worth like 900,000 in seven years. So I just would love to hear your expertise and perspective on that. Um and do you have any recommendations on how to invest those savings so that they can grow between now and then?

>> Okay. Um,

well, the savings, if you're going to leave it alone 3 years or more, we would move a bunch of it towards something like an index fund into a good mutual fund like an S&P 500 >> so that it's growing a lot faster than a high yield savings account. But if it's three years or under, I'm going to and a portion of it either way, I'm going to leave in high yield savings so that you're earning some. But really, the interest rate or the return on your money is not going to get you the house.

It's your savings rate, the amount you put in that gets you the house. So, if you make 3% or you make 10%, it's not going to be that big a difference on in a short period of time like 3 to 5 years before you get a house.

>> The second thing is that life never works on a straight line. And what

you've done is you have taken the current life that you have the snapshot of today freeze frame

and you projected that out and life doesn't work that way.

>> Okay. >> 100% of the time 5 years from today your

income is going to be different than it is today. >> Usually it's going to be more.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And we don't know what exactly, but typically on a career track like you guys are on at your age, your career, your income is going to hockey stick.

It's going to go on a curve upward.

>> And that's going to impact the five to sevenyear and probably turn it into a three to a fouryear and that changes the discussion on how much houses will have gone up in value. Um,

>> I don't borrow money for anything ever.

>> So, it doesn't matter to me what they go up. I simply cannot buy until I have the

money. >> Now, we one thing on this show that we there's only one thing on this show that we that I don't do personally that I tell other people they can do, and that's take out a small mortgage on a 15-year fixed and pay it off as soon as possible. I won't do that. But I don't

yell at you for that one thing.

>> I don't borrow on anything else and I will yell at you for borrowing on other things because it's dumb.

>> Definitely. >> Okay. But if you if you saved up half of this money and you bought in two years,

that would truncate even more of the

uh weight and the increase in value during that time. >> Going up. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think it's a good plan. Soul, but I would be Yes. Yes, I would still be investing 15% even if that's more than maxing out the Roths during this plan. I would be saving in retirement.

>> Yeah, I think you got too long. If you're going to be more than 3 years, you need to be maxing you need to be putting your 15% baby step four aside.

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Vince in North Dakota. I have followed your principles for years and do not believe in debt personally or in business. My career has been doing HVAC and plumbing for an employer who has always pushed financing. I recently opened my own business and I don't want to add to the slavery of debt, but I also don't want to lose out on jobs because I refuse to play that game. We

charge a fair rate, but I know that I'm running that I'm running the numbers myself and I see how expensive it is to grow a real business. How do I compete in this industry without resorting to pushing debt on my customers?

>> There's plenty of heat and air guys that run huge businesses without being pushing debt. Uh some of them just to

let their, you know, the financing the customer get their own financing. A lot of people put it on a credit card or they run over at the bank and borrow the money, but the the heat and air company doesn't have to furnish the financing to be successful. Um, you know, now if

you're going to work a, you know, a lowerend market, you're probably going to struggle because the people you're competing against there are probably signing up the thing. And you know, for instance, on the car lot, okay, the car dealers today on new cars make more

money profit per car on the financing

package than they do on the sale of the car.

And that could be true of some heat and air companies that are uh pushing

financing hard that they're selling the paper. >> Mhm. >> And or or they're getting paid a kick from the finance company for pushing the paper and they're making as much on that as they are on the actual heat and air unit. But that's not normal in the industry.

You know, your father-in-law is in the heat and air business. >> Yeah. >> And your brother-in-law with him. and they don't they don't push financing and they make a really good living.

>> Mhm. >> And we know a bunch of other people in the business over the years. And so, but I do know some people that are quote more retail and um you can kind of tell by their advertising when you hear their ads or you see their ads, you you kind of can tell, oh, they're going to want me to finance this because they're going to charge a lot, you know. And so, um you know, I think you provide a fair rate.

Some customers are going to finance and I wouldn't not do business with them because they chose to go pay for it the way they wanted to pay for it. That's not your that's not your obligation. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But in terms of, you know, you're in the heat and air business.

>> As long as you stay there, you're going to be okay. >> I know that the product you you're selling is expensive, Vince. I mean, like, that's one of the biggest expenses. So, you can't be shocked if people don't have the cash cuz 40% of Americans can't even cover a $400 emergency. So, you are in an industry that's expensive. So, it's um yeah, you

shouldn't be shocked if they a lot of people use it. You know, you >> I think the difference is where you get the icky factor in the heat and air world is where they think they're in the banking business where they're pedling it hard. And your old employer was one of those. >> Yeah.

>> That's where you get that's where you get the ick factor. Okay. So, if it's somewhere around your business or in your business. So, for instance, I talked to a guy the other day.

He's in the he owns two pizza uh locations.

makes pizzas restaurants. And he said, "Am I doing something wrong by taking credit cards for the pizza?" And I'm like, "Good Lord, no." You know, you're it's not. Now, would Dave Ram would Ramsey Solutions be doing something wrong to take credit cards? Yeah, cuz we're telling people actively like our brand is telling people not to have a credit card.

Okay. So, if you came into our bookstore and used a credit card and we let you do that, that would be hypocritical on our part because it's straight up unethical based on our advice. It's hypocritical. But now, when you're in the pizza business, I'm in the get out of debt business.

I'm not the pizza. You're in the pizza business. If you take credit cards at your pizza restaurant, it's the same machine use a debit card on. >> And so, either way, you're going to be paying your merchant fees on both of them.

>> It lowers your profits. And um >> it'd be weird if you were a diet company but then you were selling ice cream as they're walking out the door. That feels hypocritical, right? I mean like you know so I mean it's but that's not your industry.

So yeah. >> Yeah. I mean if if you have a a health food store and you know but you sell Snickers, you know, I mean that's a problem, you know? I mean but that's the thing you're looking for on the ethics side of things.

So, I I would have it available or or have a lo, you know, hey, the bank this u this credit union over here finances for some people and you can call George over there and Henry over there, they'll do it. You know, I'd have that available if I were you, but I wouldn't be pedalling it. That's the difference. >> You know, I'd say this is how some people do it.

They put it on a credit card. Some people do this. Some people I fix it and just get it to where it limps along so they can save up the money and then I come back next year and put in the new unit. Um, and sometimes we do that with people and th those people are going to remember you as the person who helped them with their heating and air, not who got them into debt.

that's, you know, you're fine. I think, you know, just just remember what business you're in. That's what screws up. I mean, like Victoria's Secret forgot they were in the small underwear business.

>> What? >> You know, they make more money on their credit card lines than they do on the small underwear. Okay. And so the girls that work in Victoria's Secret, if you don't sell a certain number of credit cards per shift, regardless of how much small underwear you sell, you don't get to keep your job >> because they got in the credit.

>> It used to be like that. I don't know how it is now. >> Well, I mean, >> but that used to be a big that was a big deal. >> Yes, I remember.

>> And so there's all these companies that got confused. Sears got in that business and then they went bankrupt. >> Yeah. >> Pennies got in that business and then they went bankrupt.

And so you just see this stuff. they get confused about what business they're in. Be in the business you're in and if there's financing around it, so what? Unless you're teaching people like we are not to go into debt and then that would be the, you know, the diet place selling ice cream as Rachel said.

That's true. All right. Up next is going to be Dave in San Antonio.

>> Hey, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, uh, I am currently living in South Texas. Um, we, my family and I, I have a wife, three, two, well, I was two, now three kids, um, looking after my nephew.

Uh, we would like to move to Nashville.

Um, and I want to do that as soon as financially feasible. Uh, I have two jobs at the moment. Uh, I was active duty Marine Corps for 14 years. I still do that as a reservist that, uh, Do you want net or gross figures typically a month? >> Uh, gross. gross. Uh the military is

grossing me about where'd it go? Um

sorry, I'll get back to you in a second. It's I don't know five grand or so. And then uh I also fly for an airline which

would make it very convenient for me to be your neighbor in Franklin. Uh that's

grossing me about um just under 21 a month. Uh oh, I'm

sorry. There it is. Marine or military about 4,400 and uh airline about 21,000.

Um >> Okay. So why why do you need to why do you need what are you waiting on to move if you want to move?

>> Well, unfortunately the military thing that I do down in South Texas um is very

convenient because I I do >> Oh, I thought it was military retirement. I'm sorry. Okay. So, >> no no >> it's actually it's like actually a side hustle. >> Okay. So, you go from $25,000 to $21,000

income if you moved without the military thing. >> Uh, yeah, roughly. Um, but it also makes

the 20-year retirement uh for the military a lot harder to get. Um, because, you know, I a full schedule for me flying for the airline is working about 12 days a month, which is great. I have great flexibility. I can pick up extra. Uh, I also have to fly on base

uh about five days a month. Um, now that's easy. Take the kids to school, go fly on base, and then I'm done by like two. So, that part's simple. If I were in Nashville, that's two legs on a plane. >> So, why would you want to move to Nashville?

>> Uh, variety. We can't South Texas uh is not a place we want to be for the next 30 years. Um, we're in early 40s and we'd

like to >> How much longer do you have to do the military gig?

>> Two and a half years. >> We'll do that and then move.

>> That's kind of what we're thinking. Uh, and a bigger question that and I I've heard you have different had opinions on as far as building or buying up in the

Tennessee. >> I'd probably just buy. You got enough going on without getting in the building business. Building a house is a lot of work for the consumer.

The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now

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or on Google Play. It's the eve of Thanksgiving. What are you thankful for, Jenny in Savannah?

>> Yes. Hi. Um, yay. So excited to connect

with y'all. Um, you are thankful for thankful. Yes. very thankful for my family, my two daughters, and my health.

>> Cool. Good for you. >> More. But >> how can we help? >> Uh, okay. So, I am 54 years old. I have

$75,000 in legal fees. Um, about 12

12,000 in credit card debt. I have two car payments that total about 28,000.

Um, I make 86 about $86,000 a year. Um,

I'm paying rent for uh $2,300 a month.

Um, the reason why I'm in such horrible financial um is because I went through a divorce in 2016 and um my ex-husband is

an attorney and so like every time I wanted to try to get child support I had to go back to court. So um this has been going on for 10 years. Um so my question is >> how old are the kids now?

>> Sure. Okay. So I have um one's a senior in high school and then the other one's a junior in high school. Um, so my question is, um, I have them on scholarships at a private school, um, I have a 90-year-old father who has, you

know, asked us to move back in with him,

um, to help me, you know, pay off all my debt, but that would put my kids about 30 minutes away from their school. And it's kind of a rur it's very rural town where he lives. And um so I'm wondering,

you know, should I stick it out for another year for until, you know, my younger one finishes high school and then move in? Um or should I just try to

move in now just because it's my my rent is really high. It's $2,300 a month.

>> Yeah. For Savannah, Georgia, that's really high. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, okay. So you're kind of looking at your

numbers, it's you you don't have a lot of margin, so you're kind of spinning your wheels right now, making huge progress because of all these different you high rent, you've got all these debts looming over you. Um and so forth.

Uh what are the boys plans as they come out of school?

>> Yeah. Two two daughters and they >> I'm sorry. I don't know why I thought they were sons. I apologize. >> No, that's okay. No, so um Okay. So, I have my oldest daughter just got into um G. Well, she wants to go to Northwestern. She applied early decision for Northwestern, but she got into University of Georgia and the honors program, so she would qualify for the Zela Miller scholarship and the Hope Scholarship would be practically free.

Um the younger one, you know, they both definitely are set on college, but the instate tuition for Georgia is absolutely amazing. Um, but my

ex-husband is um he lives in Chicago and

he's um you know just kind of kind of a

bug in their ear and um I'm I'm going to be responsible for half of their tuition. >> No, we're not going to Northwestern. You don't have the money to send a kid to Northwestern.

>> Sorry. >> Yeah, I agree. I've been trying to talk her out of >> I don't have to talk her out of it. The answer is no.

>> I'm a broke single mom. If your freaking

father wants to pay for this, we'll talk about it.

>> But he ain't paying for nothing.

>> No, he >> So you're going to Georgia, kid.

>> Now, you can couch that a little nicer if you want, but that's the bottom line message. >> Go dogs. >> Uhhuh. >> They're playing football.

I mean, it's life as >> a fan, but that's what I want for her, >> which hurts my heart a little, but >> Yeah. I mean, instate tuition. I mean, I'll never forget Rachel having two people come off the stage and they were $200,000, both of them in debt, getting married and saying they wanted to be missionaries at Northwestern. You were >> Oh, not the It's not the well-known Northwestern.

It was one outside of Minneapolis. >> Oh, excuse me. Okay. I I just said Northwestern.

>> But it was They both come off the stage making 200 grand getting married. They got 400 grand in debt in sociology and they want to be missionaries.

She can't afford it. Her mother's broke.

>> She says that she Well, she says, "I don't care. I'll take out all all the movie that you care. I am not I am not participating in this. I'm your mother.

This is your destruction." >> No, this is stupid.

>> Mhm. I 1,000% agree.

>> It's 100% stupid.

>> Not even 99. It's 100% stupid.

>> Okay. So, should Jenny move back home?

>> Yeah. No. Well, I mean I you know whether you move now or when do you want to start making progress and um >> well I'm up every night about like just sweating over all the the debt I have >> and um you know I've been working three jobs. I'm sure >> what are the car loans, Jenny?

Who's are they? You said we had two different ones. >> Yeah. So those are two those are both ours.

Like we have three drivers and we had one car and then I was whatever you said earlier about the the car lane. I went in there with $5,000 and somehow got sucked into financing it.

have two Yeah, we have two cars.

>> What are What are the two car loans?

Break them down. >> Um there's an $18,000 for a Hyundai

Kona, which is probably worth way less than that. And then there's a um there's about a let's see, I think it's about $10,000 for a Hyundai Santa Fe that's

got 125,000 miles on it.

>> Mhm. And that's that's that's that's the one you got now. >> Is one of them the is one of them the girls? >> Yeah. The the second one is the girls.

>> Is dad helping at all? >> No. >> No. I don't get any child support. I don't get anything. He got the marital home. Um he's an attorney, so he really he really knew what he was doing. Um by he would just file frivolous >> law. So here here's the thing. Okay.

Yeah. >> It scares me that you did a bad car deal >> for your daughter. that you're gonna do a bad college deal for your daughter.

>> So, please remember the car deal when

you couldn't look at her and say no.

>> Right. >> This time you've got to say no. You're going to bankrupt your kid.

>> She's going to spend the next 15 years of her life pissed off at you because you don't stand your ground and not let her go to a college she cannot afford.

>> And Georgia is a great school. >> Georgia is fabulous. >> Oh, it's great. and Georgia Tech, too, because she's applied to there as well.

>> These are both these are both worldclass academic institutions. I don't care if they're instate tuition or not. They really are. They're incredible.

>> I would hire her I would hire her to work at Ramsey in a heartbeat.

>> More graduating from there debtfree than

graduating from Northwestern with 200,000 cuz she's stupid.

>> I don't want to hire that. >> Agree. >> Okay. As an employer, I'm serious. We look at somebody, >> she's not stupid. She's making stupid decisions. That's just dumb. Okay, don't

do it. >> I don't I don't want to I don't want to leave this call unclear. Okay, so now

then this Yeah, if you want to go ahead and move the dad, the deal is you just got to drive 30 minutes. Is that right?

>> Um yeah, it'll be 30 minutes. And so they'll be sad that they're not near like I'm like, "Yeah, but it's saving me

$2,300 um a month." And he's getting

older and he really is like >> you could probably help him. I mean, 90 years old. >> For sure. >> Yeah.

>> I um >> I I'm sorry that these children have hard times that they have to go to an instate school and drive 30 minutes to school, but their mother is a single mom who's deeply in debt because of a nasty divorce. >> And such is life.

>> Yeah. >> They will survive these 1% problems.

>> Exactly. >> Seriously. >> Okay. And Jenny, it's probably a level of guilt on your end as a mom.

>> Yes. >> Because of the divorce and everything that you're trying to provide >> a great life for them, right? Your motivation is totally understandable.

Totally understandable. But you can't let the guilt override really bad financial decisions. And when emotions get caught up, that's what we find. When people are fearful, >> guilt, shame, all of it, >> they end up making bad financial decisions. So don't let a level of mom guilt of what they've gone through with the divorce continue. What what you think in the moment is a good decision for them cuz it makes them happy ends up being a bad decision long term for them.

And so and for you >> how far do you drive to work?

>> Um it's about 20 minutes. Yeah.

>> 25 minutes. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's the same like 30 minutes.

Yeah. Like you drive that far to work, they can drive that far to school.

Seriously, you're going to have to do some smart things for your family, honey. Even if it's short term, it creates a little drama or pain. I love you. I appreciate you. You're stronger than you think you are. Hold the ground, girl.

Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 19:21. Many plans are in a man's heart,

but the council of the Lord will stand.

Thomas Edison said, "Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless." There's interesting. Okay, so let's go

back for a second. Um Rachel, when we were doing the documentary several years ago called Borrowed Future, which by the way, you can still watch. It's award-winning on YouTube.

It's free and it's fabulous. on the

student loan crisis.

And one of the things that you said when

we were putting all of that together, you and I were taking one of those calls on the air >> was that we don't have a student loan crisis, we have a parenting crisis.

You remember that? >> Yes. We'd say that in live events.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, it's >> And we always kind of You have 3,000 people in the audience, they kind of go, "Ooh, when you say that, right? It's like a slap. >> Well, it is because I think there is a

level of wisdom as parents that there's certain things you see that are going to harm your kids. And when they're 18,

their frontal part of their brain isn't

even formed of how to make cause and effect decisions, right? And so, you have to be able to step in on really big things in your kids' lives to be able to speak the truth. And I think sometimes you draw a line in the sand and it's black and white and it feels harsh at times and what you have to realize is

you are loving your kids even when it's

a hard decision and even when there's emotion and they may get mad. They may get frustrated. But what you have to remember is they're 18. They don't understand.

They don't understand the life that you have lived. They don't understand what they're about to do is about to put them financially in a hardship for years and years and years where a lot of people regret it. So many people that come out with high student loan debt and they're just, you know, got their MBA and they're just trying to find a job and they look back and they realize, oh my gosh, I don't even know if the ROI was right on this. Right?

private university that you could literally get a four you could pay a fourth of what you got for the exact same degree somewhere else.

>> An eighth. >> Yeah. So it's just it's an it's a conversation about not only the future of them but also just make smart financial decisions now the ROI on what it is. And so, um, yeah, college is one

of those >> you can choose as a parent to, um, build

your influence throughout your child's life so that you can persuasively lead

them away from a college choice that causes student loan debt, >> let alone you participating by a parent.

>> And if that won't where and then you don't participate, you don't borrow money. borrowing money is off the table

and we're going to go to a school we can pay cash for and we're going to go to a school that gives us a return on investment for the education.

Okay? In other words, is the extra cost

worth it in the sense that you make more or have a higher probability of success due to that? That's the return on investment. It's not. I've always dreamed and my daddy wanted me to and it's a pretty town and oh my god, the

stupid stuff I have heard here on the air on college choice. The number one

reason for student loan debt is choosing

to go to a school that you can't afford.

It's not choosing an education.

It's choosing a school that you can't afford. So, we just had this example.

This young lady is an honor student. She can go to Georgia, the University of Georgia, fabulous Southeast School, business school is strong. She can go there a and go for free with the Georgia

scholarships that are available. And with the fact that she's stinking honor student and walking in there, they're going to, you know, and she can go virtually free to uh, you know, one of

the top schools in the nation

or she can go to a name brand school that's more expensive. this. Yay.

Okay. Now, let me tell you how what the data says. There's zero

credible research that says where you

went to school causes your success.

Zero.

None. None.

You cannot find any data that says

Vanderbilt and Harvard over Georgia,

Northwestern over Georgia causes success. No data. There's no one has ever been able to do find a credible study on that. It doesn't exist. It's

bull crap in the marketing and in the aristocratic sticking my nose in the air so my upper lip gets sunburned about where my stinking kid goes to college.

>> It's a it's the parents ego. A lot of it >> parents ego and it's the ego of the individual going saying I went there.

But the actual data says 78% of the

Fortune 500 presidents on the publicly traded big board went to state schools.

Eight out of 10. State schools.

So there's actually data that says going to a state school has a higher probability of leading a Fortune 500 company than going to a mucky muk with a

name. >> So the biggest the biggest push back I'm hearing now is it's the people that you get to meet. I've heard that my whole life. >> And so far, so far those people have not caused anyone to be successful. We can't find any research that says that success comes from grit, perseverance, character, integrity, and knowledge base, not hobnobbing with a bunch of

snobs.

That is book. My fraternity brothers caused me to be successful. Horse crap.

It didn't happen ever on this century.

Ever once. Never. But these people all

act like this because they have to rationalize these stupid dollars they paid for this. So Vanderbilt right now is $80,000 a year to go to school.

University of Tennessee is $12,000 a year to go to school. I went to the University of Tennessee and people that went to Vanderbilt work for me.

Now figure that one out.

This is just this is the way the life works out here, boys and girls. So in ter in other words I got enough knowledge base at the co wonderful Hasslam school of business at the University of Tennessee. I got enough knowledge base to build a $300 million company and my character and my grit and

God's blessings and the stuff we've all been through to get here. Okay.

>> And to be honest the education you got

was probably a fraction of you actually succeeding. It is the perseverance. It is the hard work. It's the never give up.

You know what I mean?

problem from. And as parents, you need to speak into this and not participate in all this mythology. Love your children enough to give them a big nope.

Nope.

Nope. You're not doing that. If you do that, you're not taking this car that's got my name on it. If you do that, you're not taking a dime of my money.

You are on your own. If you're going to go live in the land of stupid, I'm going to wave at you from over here. I love you and I'll watch you wreck your life, but I will not help you wreck your life.

and I will do everything I can to talk you out of it and to stand in your way.

My child tells me where they're going to school. My kid didn't tell me nothing with my money. I told them stuff. And

Rachel can attest to that. We had discussions and we talked persuasively and I talked adult to adult until they weren't acting like an adult. And then I just told them what we're doing. And that that oh that's you can't do. Yeah.

By God you can do that. Tell your counselor when you're 30, but you're not going to be in student loan debt cuz your dad's a butthole. Great. That's fine. But you're not going to be in student loan debt. >> Therapist cuz you don't have loans. >> Well, I mean, that's it. You can afford one because you don't have student loan debt.

>> But, you know, this is >> No, but and again, >> it's out of control, you guys. >> Yes. And again, this is on the borrowing side. If you have $5 million, you want to send your kids somewhere, that's fine. That >> But don't do it on the basis of it's going to cause them to be successful. >> Oh, totally. Oh, 100%. 100%.

>> That's mythology. >> Yes. 100%. It's absolute mythology. The

reason I'm successful is I went to MIT.

Said no one ever.

Really? Seriously.

Well, possible exception of Trump, but anyway. There you go.

>> That was fun. That was a fun little rant. >> Good. So, we need that out of my system. Well, happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> Everyone was worried about you. You're in good health, good spirits. You've seen it here. >> Everything's good. >> Thanksgiving. >> That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 172. The Most Loving Thing You Can Do Is Be Honest About Money | May 27, 2025


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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Jade Wshaw Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Open phones

at88255225.

That's88255225. We're glad you guys are with us. We're here to help you. Jade is a Ramsey personality and bestselling author of the book Money's Not a Math Problem. It's one of our Ramsey quick reads, which means it is 74 pages long.

Is that right? Yeah. Look at that. Pretty close. That's pretty good. 70 close. It is 74 pages long. Look at that. My memory is impeccable. Steel trap. That's it. That's it. Hey, thanks for being with us, guys. We're glad we can serve you. We want you to be here and gosh, help you move to the next level in whatever you're doing. All right. Rochelle is in Houston, Texas.

Hi, Rochelle. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Jay. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Um, I just wanted to get Dave's input on a situation. Um, so my husband and I, we

have four kids. We're a blended family.

Uh, I have a daughter, he has a son, and then we have two boys together.

um his father died and he inherited some

land from him. It's family land and so

when we are talking about inheritance for our children, he wants and understandably so the land to go to be split between the three boys because he wants to keep it in his bloodline. Um and so I am fine with that. But where we disagree is on how to do inheritance for

my daughter. um he thinks the land should be not even taken into consideration when we do inheritance. So monetary value etc shouldn't matter. Um

and so what we're kind of looking at is actually selling our current home and then using the money that we make to move to that land and then build on it.

Um in which case we would live out the rest of our days there and put our money into it. And I think that that also should be taken into consideration, but he thinks that the boys should get the land split between them and then whatever else inheritance we have left should be split equally between all four kids. And so I just kind of wanted your opinion on that.

Wow. Does it occur to him how hurtful it is when he says that? I don't think so.

If you said that's hurtful, you're a butt.

I haven't said that. Uh, I try to talk very nicely to him. I know, but that's what my wife would have said. I'm just thinking. And it is, it's very sentimental to him. Um, his, you know, his dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And Cinderella has to go. The stepchild has to go and mop the floors while the three other ones go to the ball.

I lost you. Fine. Are you there? Yeah.

You cut out. I don't know what happened to your phone. That's okay. Sorry. Then like I said, I don't mind them getting the land. That's totally fine. It's How much land is involved? Um, it's only about 33 acres right now. Um, it was his

grandmother's land. She sold it and then his dad bought back this portion and was

and wanting of it surrounding it. And so

my husband wants to buy back the remainder as well if we can. The remainder is how much on top of the 33.

I don't know how much more there is that he would want to buy. What is your what is your personal income and what is his income? Um we he makes about 65 and I

make about 55 right now.

But we both increase pretty regularly every year. How old are you guys? Uh 36.

Okay. All right. Um well, I don't know

that our opinion really matters here. Uh

cuz Bubba's made his mind up. Yeah. Um,

so I I just kind of wanted to know I I

you know, no, I I I think that you know, probably what you've got is a situation where you need to sit down with your pastor, marriage counselor, or somebody like that, um I I just uh

uh it it it is it is it is a thing to

require some thought, but after just listening to you, so here here's what I've got. Okay, you make half the money in the house approximately. You guys are going to be married and living there probably 40 years. So more than uh 3/4

of your life, his life is going to be

spent doing things together here. Um and

um and including your daughter. Um and

so I'm just calling BS.

I I think that I think these four kids should be treated equally because your

connection to it because you're wanting

to he's wanting to you to use your income and help him buy a house on land

he doesn't want to leave to your your daughter after 40 years. How old is your

How old are the kids? Uh my daughter's 14, my stepson's 13, and then our twins are two. Yeah. Oh, what a wedge. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I and that that's thing one. Thing two is um

people and relationships trump

stuff. This kid is more important than this piece of land. And he's her daddy

now. And she lives she lives with y'all, right? Yes, she does currently. Yes.

Yeah. you know, his relationship to her

is more important than 33 freaking acres

in Texas.

Okay. I just I I just don't um you know,

I I I would give him about a 20% part of

the right answer here and and about 80% wrong. So, he loses.

I feel like I feel like a different scenario would be you guys were 55 years

old. it was your second marriage and the

kids are grown. That feels different.

Like that's a completely different situation with saying, "Hey, but you're contributing, you know, the vast majority. You're contributing half with the sale of the house and the building of the house and your income for 40 years from age 35 to age 65 to age 75,

right? You're contributing half all the way through there. And so how your daughter doesn't get into that half is ridiculous.

Okay, from a math standpoint, from a

philosophical or spiritual standpoint, it's just a stupid piece of dirt. I

don't really care where it came from. I mean, I've got some dirt that I own that I really love. And I'd like to see my kids and grandkids playing on it for my great grandkids, my great great grandkids when I'm looking at them from heaven. I'd love to see them playing on that and enjoying that dirt. But I don't want it to form their life and I don't want them to value that dirt over relationships. Yeah. Yes. Yes, sir.

Yeah. I just I I I So I don't buy off on the sentimental crap. You know, if you I got uh um you know h some hand tools

from my dad. Okay, that's sentimental.

Okay, they're ancient antique hand tools, right? And so those are sentimental. But uh but I'm certainly not going to let a wrench and a hammer stand between me and a kid that

I'm raising.

I just you know that that's how I put this that's the bucket I put this in. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. So if the if the step kid wants the hammer, it's okay. That's fine. You know, give the other one the wrench. It's just stuff.

Yeah. And I just I I don't want to So I

got I got to I don't think he's thinking this through. I don't think he's a butt.

He's act but but but uh it was kind of fun to say that. But I kind of do. Yeah.

In this moment. Yeah. I don't I don't

think he's a hurtful person. Mhm. Like

Sure. Sure. You know, I think that's what he's doing. Okay. He's not thought of it from all angles, but I I just don't think he's thinking through the message he's sending to this teenage girl. And I I don't like that message.

Javier is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Javier. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so overarching question is that my

mom took out a bunch of loans in my name. She's making minimum payments, but I'm trying to kind of get this whole thing sorted out and out of my name. How would you suggest that I approach her and the situation as a whole? How old are you?

I'm 27. When did all this happen, hun?

Um, it started back in 2022. I want to

say 21, 22. It was after my divorce. So, I was kind of just throwing caution to the wind and just saying yes to everything. Oh, so you agreed to her doing this? Yes. The

It all started because the landlord wanted to sell the house that she that I grew up in, that she's currently living in, and she offered us a pretty good deal. and my brother and I, we bought the house together for my mom. And now

she's struggling to make the payments.

And I'm just waiting for the day that I get a call that, "Hey, your payment's due." And my wife and I, we can't afford the payment ourselves. So, I just don't know what to do.

Wow.

You bought the house together for your mom and then she took out credit card loans in your name, all with your permission.

Yes, sir. So, whose name Who whose name is on the mortgage? Yours. Mhm. Yes, sir. And she's living in And but she's living in the house. Yes. Rentree. And the house the the the property is titled

to you as well. Correct. Correct. She's

paying the mortgage. Mhm. It's just that her credit was too poor to actually take the loan out herself. So, going back to the the other debt, the other loan, how how much money are we talking about on the credit cards?

um shy of 20,000.

And what what does your mom make a year?

Um she's self-employed. She won't really give me a straight answer. Mhm. If you had to guess, what what would you what would you say? Not much. She doesn't work much. She sucks blood off of her sons. Okay. Um she's a parasite. It's a

horrible thing to say about your mother. I'm so sorry. Uh just an observation.

What's your living situation?

I am currently living in an apartment in Utah and the house is in another state.

Yeah. All right. And your wife is not happy with this situation. I would assume she is not and I'm not either.

Okay. All right. Okay.

Um and how old is mom? 55.

Ballpark. Yeah. Okay. So, um and what is

the house worth that she's living in?

Uh, I would say 350 to 4. Mhm. And what

do you owe on it? I want to say 220,

250. I don't honestly know. Yeah. Is your brother also on the mortgage?

Yes, my brother's on the mortgage as well. And on the deed as well. Yeah.

Okay. So, if you guys What's your brother saying about all this?

My brother wants to keep the house and he's just happy to go along because he wants to keep it for sentimental value.

I personally agree with your team, but it's just a house. We can get another one. Yeah. So, um, what would I do if I

woke up in your shoes? This is going to be what is called a difficult conversation, my friend. Your mom has gotten away with this misbehavior,

underproducing and um uh

unbelievable asks of her grown sons

rather than taking care of herself. A 55year-old woman ought to be able to build a sustainable life without sucking the blood off of her children, okay? Or man for that

matter. Okay? So this is not positive.

Your mom is not in a good situation mentally and spiritually. Um because

otherwise she wouldn't have done this to her own kids. And of course you all aren't cuz you allowed it to happen. Oh no. You straight up endorsed it. So what what I would do if I woke up in your shoes is I would go How long ago did you get married?

Uh my wife and I we got married in a

month ago. Okay. This is going to this is going to come down on your wife if you're not real careful from your mother. Your mother's going to blame her because she's the new thing on the scene.

And about that time, you evict your mom. So, she's going to end up blaming your wife if you're not real careful. So, your wife does not need to be anywhere near this conversation. Nor do you quote her, nor do you even bring her up.

She's not physically in the room. She's nowhere around cuz it's not her fault. Okay? So, you need to travel with your brother and sit down with your mom and say, "Guys, I can't do this anymore.

I'm looking at the future, 10 year, 10 years into the future, and all I see is pain and trouble. There's a problem here. You're not You're ruining my credit. Uh, you're going to I'm waiting for the phone call when you don't pay the mortgage, and uh so what we're going to do is we're going to sell the house.

all the debt off." And um and we're

going to pay the taxes associated with selling the house if there are any. There shouldn't. No, there will be cuz it's not a personal residence. You may have some t capital gains on this. So you pay your taxes and then you say, "As for my half of what is left over equity,

mom, I'm going to give that to you as a parting gift." And you can go set yourself up a

life with that. And I'm not going to do anything anymore in the future. That's

it, brother. You can do with your half whatever you choose to do. If you want to help mom get a house with that, that's fine. I'm done. We're selling the house. We're paying off the credit cards, and I'll give you my half of what's left over after that after taxes.

Do you anticipate your brother holding up that process

or do you think that he'll go along with it? I think he would hold it up because he's not big on Ramsay. I found you guys cuz I found your book uh breaking free from broke. Well, I mean, forget about the Ramsay part. Just the idea of you cleaning this up because it's very messy. It to do with Ramsay. It's got to do with your mother screwing her own kids over.

Yeah. I honestly think he would not go along with it cuz he's seeing it as an investment on his then he can buy you out. He can buy you out. That's another option. But honey, we're selling the house. If he doesn't want to sell the house, then it's going to be a civil court action and the judge is going to demand that the partnership be dissolved by the selling of the house. We're selling the house. I'm not asking. We're telling you. This is what we're doing.

If you want to buy me out, that's okay.

The way you need to think of this is this is saving your marriage, by the way. Yeah. Because your wife is not going to sit around and let your mom be the reason that she's not in her new house. You guys are in an apartment.

You've been married for a month. If this messes around and causes you guys the f

the future that she's envisioned, you're going to have a much bigger problem on your hands. Yeah. Mom, I love you and I've done more for you than I should have and I put myself and my future family in jeopardy because of you and

you continue to misbehave with this. My bills are not being paid. You're destroying my credit and my future.

We're selling the house. Little brother, if you don't want to sell it, you can buy me out. You got 10 minutes. Ready, set, go. You're on the clock, okay?

Because your little brother's codependent like you were until something woke you up. And again, this has got nothing to do with Ramsay. Don't you blame it on your ex. Don't you blame it on your new wife and don't you blame it on Ramsay.

It's not Ramsay. This is you stood up.

I'm a 27y old freaking man with a backbone. And this is madness. And the madness ends. It's not a sign of love to

continue in codependency. This is not an act of love. There's no love in this discussion. You can be kind, gentle. You don't have to be yelling and screaming, but we are selling the house. You can either do it voluntarily or I'll have a judge make

you sell the house. We are selling the

house. So, y'all get your heads around that. Whatever flopping in the floor and foaming at the mouth you need to do, but get your heads around that. We are selling the house. It's not an option.

The only other option is brother, you buy me out or mom, you'all buy me out.

Get me off the mortgage and pay off all the credit cards. And you got to do that in 90 days. And you got to ready, set, go. And if you're not going to do that, we are selling the house. The best thing for mom, by the way, sell the house. Put some money in her pocket. Tell her to get a freaking job. Self-employed for her is code for I don't work much.

That's what that is. That's code. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay.

Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions for one thing are uh nonprofit, which means

that the members, the customers own the

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

And and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer ccentric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and um the deals that they're offering. The Ramsay tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding, it took less than 5 minutes.

It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So, I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, "Yeah, they give calls to every new customer." And so, again, they just really care about your experience and I I so so appreciate that.

Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app and you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

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8003564282. Dave is with us and Dave is in Orlando. Hi Dave, how are you?

Hi, I'm good Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Hi. So, uh, my wife and I, um, so we are

foster parents and we were taking care of a baby pretty much from a newborn until about 8 months. Um, the mom did

great. She she got her kids back after she went through some struggles. Uh, long story short, um, her case has been

closed. She has all her kids back and she is struggling again. So with pretty much all aspects of life, but uh

financially she made some poor decisions with a car, ended up breaking down and

uh she had to junk it and uh she contacted us just for some help financially. Um we we haven't helped her with money before, but obviously we love, you know, her son very much. We want her to succeed. Um we know that giving her money is not a long-term solution to anything. Um, so we're really just trying to think about the best way to approach her, talk to her about, you know, what's going on, how her finances are, how she can get assistance, build a budget, um, etc.

And, and she's a very, very uh, shy,

closed off type person. So, we don't want to scare her off, but obviously still wanting to help her. We're just looking for the best way to to maybe approach that.

H well I mean all you can do that's

reasonable is to coach her and the only way you can coach her is to the extent she'll accept the coaching. Right.

Right. And um and

I talked to her yesterday and she you

know I I asked her if she would be opening to open to having a financial conversation. You know my my wife and I are in you know good shape. were very stable. And if uh she said she was open

to having that conversation, she said she doesn't really understand debt and just finances in general. And on top of that, I mean, she has three kids now.

She's not working, has a baby who's now a year, and uh her other two kids are nine and 10, and she just has absolutely no idea what to do. um she can't get daycare for her for her baby because in order to get assistance through the state, she has to have two paychecks uh before they'll provide daycare assistance. So, she is just going crazy and we feel like she's close to, you know, getting back to a point where she may make some poor decisions or drugs or

something like that. and and Yeah. Yeah.

Um well, obviously the financial

situation is again the symptom Mhm. of

all the things that have gone on in her life. Okay. And um so but but maybe you

can coach some of the things in her life by using the financial door to go through. Um ha having dealt with this a bunch of

times over the years, the warning I would give you is I I would tell you to be very very clear upfront. Uh because

when you said financial conversation, you meant coaching, she might have heard

money.

You're going to have a conversation about how much money you're going to give me. Yes, I'll be happy to have that conversation. when you when she it's very clear to her that you're not going to give her money cuz you're not

um that then uh because this is a a messed up toxic situation if you start that um then then she may cut you

loose. So you need to be ready for that emotionally.

Okay. And so I I think um you know what

I would offer if I were in this situation with your wife present, I would just say uh in in in person over a

cup of coffee um look, we love the

little boy and that means that we would love to help you and our help to you would be that as a as your older brother and older sister here that are successful in a lot of areas of life that you're not yet, we can show you a better path in a bunch of these areas.

is and um help her get plugged into a good church. They can help her with the daycare get started. Uh let someone do that. But if she starts to see this baby as a ticket to get money out of you, this is going to get really uh ugly fast.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And so she did move um two hours away from us when when the case was finally closed. I guess that was about a month ago. Mhm.

And we did at that time give her $200 to

help moving expenses and get a truck to go down there. Um, so I'm hoping that

she doesn't think that that door is already open. And that's what I'm trying to avoid. She does. You're But you're just The trick is can you can you make a trip down there, sit down, be very clear, we love you. We because we love this baby, we want to coach you and help you, but it's going to be we're going to show you how to get on your feet, not we're going to give you money to get on your feet. Mhm. And uh she may give you the middle finger. Um I mean it's a

better than a 50% probability. Yeah.

Based on my experience, but uh but if she she may have been just d it's sad, but sometimes folk in these situation will use a baby as a method of manipulation. Well, that's the thing I would probably caution um against with David, just to be really careful because obviously they love this this little boy. And so there's probably um a part

in them that wants to try to control the situation because in their minds like we have the means like we understand money.

We understand how to take care of this kid. And so I think that they have to really guard their hearts in this situation because like you said, Yeah.

So sad. Yeah. But I think what she's got to have is she's got to have some mentors and some people in her life.

That's why I said plug her into a good church. Let's get her started walking on a character path and let her get cuz

obviously based on what you said, she's been struggling with that and you're afraid she's going to fall back off of that. And when she gets that character thing straightened out, then you can show her the mechanics of the money piece. But um but she's going to have to

go to work and she's got to feed three kids and we're going to have to figure out a way to cause her to be able to do that with some community support. and that community will help her if if she's heading in the right way. And you can probably line that up. Um and if and I think you're a wonderful person for investing into this, but uh but but just be very careful that you're not being um

uh manipulated because that sometimes is the only skill someone has. Um and

they're very skillful in some cases. Not saying that's true about her 100%, but it's just something I would personally be careful with if I was walking into this. I want my eyes wide open. Open phones at8825-55225. Royce is in Dallas, Texas.

Hi Royce, how are you? Good. How are you Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I am a um finance or I guess you

say graduate finance student. I'm getting my NBA, my undergrads in finance. Cool. And so you know how all them are. Yep, I do. They teach you to go out and leverage and so on and so forth. Okay.

The financial situation that I'm in is I'm completely debtree. I have a h 100,000ish something dollars of invested

money in Morgan Stanley and then I have some other stuff through some 401ks. I have $30 or $30,000 in onhand cash and I

have an opportunity to buy a $50,000 house. Would you leverage some part of it the renovations? Would you buy it all cash? Because my whole thought pattern is if I leave that money working and do parts of it, so like finance 25, cash 25

cash on the restoration, it allows some of my work to some of my money to still be working. Yeah. Well, back when you had common sense before you got your MBA, you would have never done that, right?

And so I I agree with you on that partly. Then so my thing is is so do you think that there's ever situations where that would come in? because I know the situation you got in, right? No, I do not I do not borrow money and I do not tell people to borrow money, especially for investment real estate, pay cash forward or don't do it because the risk you increase your risk and what they don't teach you in the MBA program is to

mathematically factor in the risk. They act like with the formulas they teach you, their formulas, the formulas that I learned, same the same ones in getting a finance degree are fairly simplistic in that they do not address the risk issue.

And the more you borrow, the more risk you have. We know that. Okay? And and

nowhere in anything you learned in that MBA program does it increase the does it decrease the returns based on increased

risk because of debt. There's not a formula that they have in that program that shows you that. And yet that is reality. So every time you borrow money, you increase risk. The more money you borrow, the more risk. The less money you borrow, the less risk. And risk does affect return over the scope of time.

And so don't do it. Don't do it. The borrower is slave to the lender. God is smarter than your MBA professor. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Rei? If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, well, we're not judging you.

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refy.com/ramsey. Might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Brody in Maryland. He says, "Is it unfair for me to feel angry that my wife wants a bigger house? We bought a,400 ft house last April. I sold all

four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt, including the new house.

Our house is a three-bedroom, two- bath ranch with a backyard on a quiet street, and it's in a good school district. So much sacrifice and saving went into making this happen. Now she wants a bigger house even though she said she wanted this particular house before we put the offer in. I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again. And I will not go back into debt.

Oh, this is juicy. I listen I Here's the

thing. I do think that some people's personalities cuz you don't talk about any type of pay raise or situation where you guys' lifestyle has changed drastically. But I do think there's some people that uh the goalpost is

constantly moving, right? It's like if I just get this, I'll be happy and then they get that thing and they're not happy. Or if I just get this, I'll be content and then it happens and they're not content because things don't make you happy and things don't make you content. You know, I think that they're fun, but they don't they don't fill that void.

And yeah, you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness. Yeah. And you can't buy contentment. No.

kind of go, well, that's them and that's okay. My life is fine. And truly, I think that that's what this is. I think she's got a contentment issue. Exactly.

Sidebar, what what you stated there. I just saw an article the other day that um the more hours you spend on social media, the typical the there's a direct correlation to the more credit card debt you have. Oh, really? I'd love to see that. I know there is. And the more overspending you do because, you know, I I do it and I have the money, but I'm

like looking at some gun thing and I'm like, "Oh, I need one of those." Yeah.

But if I had stayed off of that, I wouldn't have even known it was there.

And you know, but so I know other people do it and I teach this crap. So, you know, I mean, it's like, golly, if I'm doing it, that's it's got to be. So, okay. Yeah. Here's what happened, Brody.

You guys need to reset your marriage

relationship. This is not about a 1400 foot house. And it's not about you being angry.

You are acting like the daddy and she's

acting like daddy's little princess.

You know I can't. And daddy sold everything and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone. And what did he get? Bony fingers.

And he got a house and he's real proud of the house. And now she walks in and goes, "Yeah, but there's the wallpaper." Yeah. And so we need to reset this and instead let's be two like grown-ups. So, the conversation I'm going to have is, and actually we had it at our house, but in a little different way when we were about Charles's age, probably. Um, I'll tell you about ours in a second, but the conversation I'm going to have is, okay, we are going to get aligned on

our goals. Yeah. My goal is not to

perpetually make an unhappy person happy. I am not going to get on that treadmill.

We You're a grown woman. I'm a grown

man. We're going to sit down together.

And here's one of mine. Okay. I don't borrow money. Period. Here's another one of mine. I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine.

These are what you might say, Brody.

Okay. And she's saying, "Well, I want a house as nice as my friends." Okay. What can we do to get that? Mhm. Uh, you don't

work. You could work. You don't work much. You could work more. Uh, you could quit coach bagging

it and we might save that money towards a house. I mean, what are we going to do as two grownup people to

responsibly? Because I I'm all in. I put all my chips in the table. I sold off everything I had to buy this house for us. Mhm. Mhm. And what you did though

was you did that without her. She was not aligned to that decision. She was giving you lip service, but this was not her idea. It was yours. Yeah. I And now

now you're surprised that she's unhappy of your plan. That did not her include her. So this is like I got to tell I you know what I about 10 year I've been married 43 years. About 10 years into marriage. I don't buy Sharon jewelry any

more that she hasn't seen.

Tell us why. Because I picked out ugly crap. I know. Yeah. According to her,

but I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap and then she didn't.

She's like, "Oh, well, I wouldn't I wouldn't have that." And I'm like, "Oh, geez. Well, let's just not do that again." So, I don't mind if Sharon has I mean, she's got earrings the size of a headlight, but she picked them out. Mhm.

And then she says, "They're heavy.

They're that big." Okay. And I'm like, "That's ridiculous." And I'm like, "It's a good problem to have." Okay, just get your little earlobes and do some earlobe lifts. Start doing some workouts there in the gym because you picked them out.

So, see, that's the difference. She This girl's not involved in this. Well, yeah.

You could tell by the the the language.

I sold all of my investment properties.

So much sacrifice. Yeah. He's the only one. He feels like he's the only one sacrificing. You can tell by the language whether but it's a paternal thing rather than than a equal thing.

Yeah. Yeah. You can hear it. So I think we got to reset and go we're not going

anywhere from here. Mhm. We're not making any major decisions without both of us involved.

And uh I learned that after I went broke because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid without talking to my wife.

Proverbs 31 says, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her." And here's my favorite part. He will have no lack of

gain. And it's not in the Bible, but it might be in one version like Second Hesitations. Yeah. Right after no lack of gain, she no longer says, "I told you so." Oh, I kind of like being able. I like being able to say that though. I know, but you can't say that when you're in on the decision. All you can say is we together made a dumb butt decision.

That's all you can say from this point forward. And that that's it. You can't say you're an idiot. You can't do that anymore because now you have to use plural. It's change your pronouns. We are idiots. We did this. Right. And so that's what's going on here, dude.

You've got to reset uh this idea you

have. Put your little Superman cape up of you're the papa and you're the provider and all this stuff and um she's just a little woman and you're going to you're never going to make Scarlett O'Hara happy. It's not going to happen.

So um she's going to get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy. Yeah. It's a weird balance of power. It's a big deal, man.

It's a big deal. This alignment in marriage is one of the things we find all the time in people's ability to get out of debt. People's they they succeed in their careers at a greater rate. They uh and their ability to build wealth because they're aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together.

The first time we did that after going broke was we finally saved up a little bit of money and I had $10,000.

You remember those? Oh, 100% completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler goldfish. Uh-huh. From the third kid.

And uh it was nasty. This was a bad car.

It was an embarrassing vehicle. When they first came out, they were all right. Well, this was not first come out. And she's like, I need an I need a better car. We need to move up to a Suburban. And I was going to I had$10,000 or $15,000 saved at the company. I was getting ready to do this investment. we were going to buy this thing and I was going to make a h 100,000 with this 15,000 down here and she's like uh we need to do a

car and you know what we did both but we

did the car first and then we did the company and it turns out now all these years later it was okay but in the moment aligning on that with two grown-ups was a big deal. It's a big

deal. Daniel is in Kansas City. Hey

Daniel, how are you?

I've been better. Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up in your world? Uh, my wife is about to pass

away and she hid debt from me. Oh my.

That I that I didn't know that she had

pre to our getting married 5 years ago.

Wow. I'm so sorry.

So, what what is her illness?

uh she has cerosis of the liver. Oh man.

And it's not working and she doesn't qualify for a transplant and then it's

starting to affect her other organs and she's kind of going into full shutdown.

So you've been married 5 years? Yes, sir. I'm so sorry. How old is she? She's

44. Oh my goodness. Oo. How old are you?

I'm 52. Okay. Oh, man. Okay. And you you

you opened this with she's hidden debt

from you during the five years that you were married. So, she ran up debt in her name. She ran up debt in her name

pre-tar getting married back when she was in college. Uh this is the second

marriage for both of us. Have a I have

one daughter with her technically a stepdaughter, but I consider her my daughter. Mhm. Mhm. Totally. And uh was

saving money for her to go to college.

And um we were I thought we were anyway

debtree except for our house. So the debt the debt was rung up before you guys married got married. You just didn't know about it. I did not know about it. And how much debt? Uh the her

parents said she ran up $50,000, but

I've only received a bill for $15,000.

And it's on what kind of debt? Uh student loan debt. Federally insured.

Uh I I don't know. I just received it the other day. It's actually from a bill collection agency. Mhm. I I don't have

it in front of me. I apologize. It's okay. Is it only And you might not know this. Is it only in her name or did her parents sign for it too? No, it's only in her name. Okay. Okay. Her parents offered to pay for her to go to school as long as she showed them the grades and evidently she took the money, was in

school for a hot minute. And I didn't know this cuz she's hidden a bunch of stuff from me and uh used the money to go travel.

Okay. And went to Europe and blew the money. All right. Um, well, let's talk through a couple of possibilities. Um, from a tactical standpoint, I'm sorry, Daniel. I know your heart's broken in about three different places. Uh, the deception, the loss, um, the illness, everything that's going on here that's just overwhelming. Um,

and all of that's just a tragedy. I'm so sorry. Student loan debt that is

federally insured is forgiven when someone passes away.

Okay? So, if this is a federal student

loan debt, there's no issue. When she

passes away, you will um or her parents

for that matter can send them uh a copy of the death certificate and the student loan just evaporates. It's that simple.

and don't pay it. Okay, that that's

probably what we're dealing with.

Okay, let's go another route in case

that's not it. Let's pretend this is uh

private student loan debt that she borrowed it from the university rather than through FAFSA and all that, right?

Um that is not I'm sorry. I believe she

did because her parents income was too high for her to get FASA. Well, this is student. It could it could still there's no there's not an income limit on getting a federally insured student loan. Okay. Okay. So, I'm I'm thinking this is a federally insured student loan. If it's not, let's discuss that.

So, the Do you own

anything jointly with her?

Uh, and both of your names on it?

The only thing with both our names on it is one car. Okay. her credit her credit

from her previous marriage was she's had

two bankruptcies that she never told me about cuz I I had money issues in my

first marriage and got that all paid off and I got your book the total money makeover and followed that to get out of

debt and to do there's a mountain mountain of deception here okay um all right let's pretend let's pretend that this is not federally insured I would have you If it's not a federally insured student loan that is forgiven upon death, then I would have you contact an attorney there in Kansas City on probate law in Kansas. In most states, when

someone passes away, what they own stands good for what they

owe, and nothing else does. Just because

you're married to her in most states does not mean you're liable for her debts. that have her name on it. And so

the car is hers, a portion of it. And if

the car has any value above what is

owed, that might be sold and paid towards this debt. But other than that, you don't have anything that is she doesn't own anything. It doesn't sound like.

No, sir. She does not. Okay. So, let's pretend that she were single and she had a car and that was all and she owed more on the car than it was worth and um you

pass away with credit card debt and student loan debt. There's no assets to

pay the debts. Those creditors get

nothing when that person passes away with nothing. Your kids aren't responsible. Your parents aren't responsible. And in most states, your husband is not responsible unless especially in a situation like this where the debt occurred prior to the

marriage. Yeah, absolutely. So, I I'm not an attorney in Kansas. I'm not an attorney, but I'm not attorney in Kansas for sure. So, I'd want you to check that out. You won't have to bother and do that if you can discover that these student loans are federally insured. And I'm giving you a high probability they are. If they're federally insured, it's no issue at all. You got no issue. You're not liable. Period. No one's liable. No one pays anything. If

someone becomes permanently disabled or passes away with a fedally insured student loan, it's forgiven. It's gone.

Okay. So, you're okay other than your broken heart.

Okay. And your broken heart from losing your wife and uh to to liver cerosis.

Cerosis of the liver. And your broken heart from all the deception that's gone on. Yeah. And um both are legitimate

pain, brother. I'm sorry you're facing all this. Yeah. He's got to he's got to get in counseling and and deal with that because he's got a lot going on. He's got the loss, but then it's tough to lose someone that you're angry at or frustrated at for something that's gone on, right? Um and so obviously she had a

pattern of this in her life and and now

it's coming to a tragic Yeah.

conclusion. So tough. Wow. Ouch. Okay,

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Emily is in Washington DC. Hi, Emily.

How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? Um, we just have a quick question.

My husband and I are wondering if we are being selfish with a family financial decision that we're making. And I'm going to preface it by saying that we are in total agreement on this and he would be the one to have the conversation with his family. So, the overall situation is that he has um many

siblings um and we try to get together

and go on vacations or just um have

family gatherings fairly often. However, his youngest sister does have a very

different financial situation than the rest of us have. So, we've covered um her expenses anytime we get together and particularly going on vacation. Usually not a big deal. It's just a few hundred extra bucks. Um however um there has

kind of been an expectation to pay and there is conversation around going overseas um to where they are from originally where the family is from originally for a bigger trip in 2025 which would if we covered the her

expenses it would cost us thousands of dollars. Um that's just not in our budget. Um it's not something we can do.

It would already be kind of at the top of our budget to begin with. Um but in

kind of expressing this um decision um

not being able to cover her her husband and her five kids, it's really ripping apart our family because we're being told we're being selfish by not helping her out. And sorry, it's her husband and her five kids.

And yes, and who who's telling you you're selfish?

Um the other siblings and her how much of it were they covering? They were

We've always kind of split things fairly equally and so if we split it three

ways, it would still be a few thousand dollars for all of us. Can I ask why?

Can I ask why? Uh why is what's the situation that everybody is floating them? Yeah, that's a great question. Um,

so some of it, um, I'm I would say it's lifestyle choices just in the fact that, um, they live in a small town. Her husband doesn't have a big income and then she's chosen to stay home and homeschool. The kids, have a bigger family. Um, so the more you tell me, the more I'm laughing internally, like the more you tell me about this, the more I'm realizing how ridiculous this this expectation is.

And yeah, that's there's no obligation.

Anything that you've done before, you kind of did set up maybe an expectation.

But you did that out of the kindness of your heart, as it sounds like the other siblings did. But just because someone is kind and decide that they want to give one time doesn't mean that they're obligated to give every time and at the whatever limit that other person decides, right? If I were you, I would

have no when I tell you I would lose zero sleep over saying I'm not going to fund this. It's too expensive, period.

And you don't have to give a bunch of reasons. Just, hey, it was fun for us to be able to do that before with this trip. We're not going to be able to help out. And by the way, probably going forward, you know, we've decided that the faucet has turned off at this point.

Especially with the way you folk have reacted. Yeah. Yeah. No gratefulness.

Yeah. Entitled. Gratitude turned into entitlement. And so, um, yeah.

The the the issue is this.

take your money, to they feel entitled

to your money. And then when you set a boundary with a boundaryless person, roughly 100% of the time it

pisses them off almost every time, right? And so

once you say, "You can't play in the yard. It's my yard and you can't come over here. There's a fence here. You should stay on your side of the fence." You know, that's a boundary.

In other words, then the people who have gotten used to treating your yard like it's their yard. Yes. Um, and they go, "Oh, but we're but we like playing in your yard." And so, no, you can't play in my checkbook anymore. Um, there's not room for both of us.

And so, I'm going to declare it mine, and I'm going to close the gate. The gate was open, and now the gates's closed.

That kind of goes there, too. So, um that's that's the way I mean a and as

far as the other siblings uh whining about it, it falls under the category of nuna. Mhm. Nuna business. Go kick rocks.

Exactly. And here's the thing. I thought you were going to lay out some um hardship or something that was kind of outside the box, but truly it's choices.

Yeah. Choices. And and so you chose not to be able to afford to go on this international vacation with your five children. Um which by the way most people Yeah. I I never even saw the ocean till I was a teenager. So I mean I grew up in Tennessee. So I mean come on.

I mean it's like that that's what that's what people that don't have money do, you know? So it's you you don't get to do stuff that people with money get to do. It's how that works. And so um Gosh, I'm sorry though. I'm sorry it's bringing a a pain to y'all. And I wish I wish I had something other than smart alic things to say that would actually make this go away because it they because it won't but it won't go away.

And so you're just going to have to smile and say, "Gosh, I'm so sorry y'all feel that way. I love y'all, but this is our decision." Mhm. And you don't have to, you don't I would not justify it. I wouldn't talk about the decisions they need to make different.

I wouldn't talk about enabling. I wouldn't talk about entitlement or boundaries. I would just say this is our decision. We love y'all and um gosh, I hope it doesn't I hope you don't permanently cut us off, but if you do, then that's what you'll have to do.

And gosh, I sure hope not. But we love y'all. And no, the good news is you and your spouse are on the same page about this. That's the only way.

And you already prefaced it with he's going to handle his own family. Bless his heart.

it's a thing, man. It's a thing. So Oh,

wow. Yeah, that's I've had some of these conversations. I mean, when we went broke and lost everything. So Sharon has five brothers and sisters and there's 13 grandkids. Mhm. Okay. Of which Daniel is

the youngest. Okay. So Rachel's one of the youngest, in other words. And so that family, they've all done very well and they're wonderful people. And everybody gave everybody something at Christmas. Well,

I completely screwed that up because I

went broke and I didn't have the money to give everybody everybody something.

Right. And so we were there at Thanksgiving and they're talking about Christmas and I said, "Guys, um, I'm sorry. I got bad news. I I we just can't

do that. We we just went bankrupt. We don't any money. And so we're going to have to draw names." And the kid, and my suggestion also is the children under 12 get gifts from other people, but everybody else is treated as an adult and gets one gift from another adult, and we all just draw names. And no, to their credit, I'm

bragging on my wife's family. They all said, "That's a really good idea because I think this other one sucked. It was getting out of control." And I'm glad you brought it up. But I was kind of Sharon.

Sharon's like, "They're not going to like that." And I said, "I know they're generous, sweet people. They're not going to like it, but we don't have any money." Oh, man. So, we can't play anymore. We don't have the We We can't pay the ticket to play in this.

Yeah. We can't get into this place anymore. We can't pay the ticket.

solid people who respected the pain that we were in at the time and how embarrassing it was for us to have to say that out loud out and all of that at that. I mean, can you imagine sitting at your in-laws Thanksgiving dinner? Yeah.

And and announcing I have been there and my story didn't go as well, Dave. Oh,

no. Oh, no. You know, you caused trouble

with the in-laws, did you, Jay? I said maybe we give names. Maybe we draw names. I didn't know she was that way.

I wouldn't have known it. All right. You know, there you go. Well, here's the thing.

We're still drawing names to this day. So, oh, even though there was some kicking and screaming to begin with, but it's okay. It's a good thing now. It's a good thing.

Well, you know how I feel. Adults don't need to buy other adults gifts. I heard you talk I heard Rachel and George talking about you the other day on their show saying that. I like that.

So, there we go. Get your own blender.

Aunt Gertie. Hayden is in Nashville. Hi,

Hayden. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

Appreciate it. Appreciate everything you do. Thank you. Um, so basically I'm calling about my mom. I'm very concerned for her. She has a um bad track record

for being financially smart. Um, and

recently she just got into a relationship. It's only been about 6 months and he has a lot of money. Um, so she thinks that she wants to quit her job um, and live off of his money and

then sell her house and then that's her

retirement. So, I don't I just don't really know like how to give her advice.

And she has asked me for advice. She She did ask. Interesting. She She did ask

for advice. Cuz the one thing that changes the whole discussion is the marriage date. When are they getting married?

That's exactly my point as well. Like I'm telling her you get married before you decide to quit your job or decide to

move in with him. Like But is there If

you quit your job and move in with somebody and sell your house that's rich, that's called a sugar daddy.

We have a name for that guy. He's a really He's I don't care. He's a sugar daddy. Still, he might be a nice one,

but that's what he is. No, you don't do that. Mom, how did you get to be mom and not know that?

Trust me, I don't know. So, what what have you said to her? What have you said to her so far about it? What have you told her so far? Um, he wants to take care of her and she, you know, he

supports her in any decision she wants to do. If she doesn't want to work anymore, that's okay. She'll he'll pay for, you know, all the bills and she wants to sell her car. She also has a she owes 20,000 on her car right now.

Um 8,000 in credit cards. You know, she's not good with her money. And I'm saying, what have you told her about this? Have you told her anything yet?

I told her I told her that one she needs to get married if she wants to, you know, rely on his income.

Oh, yeah. Um, for sure. And it's hard

it's hard for her to listen to me cuz like I'm not married so I don't Ah, okay. Another strand. Well, it's you're her kid. That's strand one. And And that's another thing, too. Yes. And then you've not been in the type of relationship that she's been in. At least that's the way she's going to view it, which is true. So, you're fighting a like you're fighting a current 100%. Let me tell you what, if you ask your mom's dad, he's probably gone, right? Yeah. Yeah.

But if we were to ask, they didn't have a good relationship. They didn't know.

That's probably not a good example then. If we were to ask her uncle, he would have said, "No, I'll bunk him on the head." No. Right.

Or I mean, even if you flip the script and put yourself in that situation, although I I would love to think that she would tell you to do the the opposite, but she might tell you to do the same thing that she's doing. So, she she would smell that one out. Um I I

don't you know, your question is how to convince her of what all three of us know that this is a bad idea. Okay.

Yeah. So, I guess the thing is this.

Okay. Here's the thing. Anytime, mom, you're making a great huge decision and

there's s a series of great huge decisions you're making here. You have to play out the decision. Is it a happy happy decision? Now, the way that works

is this. You're happy if this works and

you're still happy if this doesn't work.

If it all works and you just play house and the sugar daddy takes care of you, it worked. You're happy. That's your plan. But what happens if he dumps you in the street for a 10-year you younger version,

trades you in on a new model mom, uh because he can do that pretty easily here by waving the exact same car he waved in front of you, um and be sugar daddy to somebody else. So when he puts you in the street with no house, no car, and no job, where are you going to be?

Mhm. So you don't make big decisions

like this, mom, when one of the possible outcomes is devastation,

bad risk management. Bad lack of wisdom.

Lack of wisdom. And I'm also just not in a position financially to help her.

She's asked me in the past for money.

That doesn't that doesn't enter into how stupid this is.

Whether you give her money or not doesn't mean this is smart. and you're gonna have to accept the fact that she's gonna do you could lay out the best argument in the world like perfectly just eloquent everything makes sense and she could still go and make this choice and it's going to be bad for her and you're going to have to just learn how to live with that and accept the fact that she's a grown woman and she's making a bad mistake and there's nothing in many ways there's nothing you can do about it and that's I think that that's the hardest part of being in a relationship with anyone that you really care about is they get to choose.

there anyone in her life that's wise that she

trusts?

Her brother. Have him call her and scream at her.

I'm serious. She really he he really likes the guy. So, I haven't seen him

like I said I asked if he was wise.

Oh, if he's wise, he doesn't think this is a good idea. I'm not saying the guy's a horrible guy. I'm saying this a horrible deal for your mom without put a ring on it, buddy. Well, the guy probably thinks if this is a a I'm going to say in air quotes, a good guy.

This guy probably thinks he's offering your mom the world. So, maybe somebody needs to get in his ear and make him see, hey, we we like you. We we we think that you're probably trying to take care of our mom, but can you do this the right way? Because this way the way that you're doing it now makes us nervous because if for some reason it doesn't work out, she's on her butt, right?

So maybe that's the way to go at this is if there's somebody that has the right relationship to talk to him.

Right. Put a ring on. My mom just needs a reality check, too. The problem is she's not looked at the downside.

Anytime you're making a big decision, you have to look at the downside. What's the possible negative outcome from this?

And it'll keep you from doing some stupid butt stuff if you don't only consider that, you know, sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles. You know, it doesn't always turn out sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles. Especially when the deal is set up poorly from the start. You're kind of asking for it.

Yeah, that's true. You're asking to have your butt kicked. Life's going to come along and go, "You was stupid. Here's your butt kicking. Ready? Here you go." And we all get to pay some stupid tax.

We've all done some stupid butt stuff. And she's signing up for one here. This is a trip that's going to be harsh.

Please don't do this, lady. Please don't do this. Put a ring on it or don't do it. It's pretty simple. Cuz I got to tell you, it changes the chemistry.

Well, I was going to say, there's no like balance of power in this relationship. She sells everything she has. There's no way in the world she could live in a house probably that that he lives in on her. You know what I'm saying? She has no ability to keep up life. We need to bring back some of the vernacular from bygone era. Let me hear it. A kept woman. Oh, you ever heard that one? Yes. That's very uh I don't

want to say the word old, but that that's that's ancient. That's um a kept woman. She's being kept. Yeah. For her

use. Yes.

Does that give you a little chill? Gives me a little chill. I don't like it. My My dad's stuff, my grandpa stuff gets angry right then. So, I just can't put a ring on it. Michael is in Charlotte.

Hey, Michael. What's up?

Hey, I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um, I had a question. Um, my wife and I are in the process of buying a house. We

were preapproved and our loan officer uh

told us she doesn't advise 20% down payment. We're in North

Carolina. She says the appreciation rate in North Carolina. I don't advise you using this loan officer. She's stupid.

Yeah, I figured you would say something along those lines, but I'm just I don't I have a hard time understanding how that works out, how it would be. Well, her thing is is that borrowed money has no risk, so borrow all you can.

Okay. My thing is I've met people who are up to their eyeballs in a mortgage and can't get out. They're stuck because of some idiot loan officer like this. By the way, she gets paid on what? What's her percentage on the loan amount?

Conflict of interest in this advice.

Hello. Hey, you need more money if you

don't put down so much. He needs to go to our real estate hub and find some folks who are going to actually help him. Go to ramiesolutions.com/ real estate. There it is. That's easy. A whole bunch of stuff there that'll help you, Michael. Yeah. But she's getting paid on that. You do need a loan officer. This woman's not smart. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, "Hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order." Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and

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So, uh, let's do some finance 101. All

right. Couple of things. The first thing they teach you in finance class, one of the first things they teach you is what's called risk return

ratio. The more risk you take, the

higher return you should get. So when

you put your money in an FDICsured bank, no risk virtually, but

they pay you almost nothing. Fair

enough, right? If you uh move it around

a little bit, mess with a little bit. Uh you can put it in a good high yield savings account, which we'll sidebar on that for a second. We were talking about this off air a little bit. We'll come back to my risk return ratio in a minute, but we'll just turn left for a second and park there. A high yield savings account is exactly what it says it is. It is a savings account at a bank that pays a better rate. Ding ding y. That's it.

Okay. A CD, a certificate of deposit, is

a savings account at a bank. Mhm. And

they give you a certificate. Yes. And you have to like perfect attendance. You remember that one? Yeah. Yeah. But you you can't touch that one. Yeah. But you could touch it, but you won't get all of the high yield. Okay. The high yield savings accounts, fully liquid, pays more than CDWs do. Right now, CDs have just about been run out of the out of town by the sheriff. Okay. Uh 10 years

ago, we didn't call them high yield savings accounts at the bank. We had a savings account at the bank that the bank labeled wrong, but they did it for

marketing reasons. The bank called it a money market account at the bank. It was

a savings account at the bank that paid

a higher rate like a high yield savings

account does. Same exact thing. It's a savings account that paid a better rate that mimicked real money

markets. But the bank did not sell money

markets.

They had a savings account called a money market account that had an interest rate that was similar to a real money market account. A real money market account was only available through and still is only available through something like a mutual fund company. So, you could go to Fidelity or American Funds or whatever and open an actual money market account.

methodology. It's a better marketing actually than money market because it says I'm going to give you more money, higher yield. It says I'm higher interest savings account. That's what it says. It is what it says it is actually.

And the money market account was just a misnomer. Yeah. But it was all for marketing. It's all banks selling their wares. So, uh, high yield savings account, simple savings account, little better interest rate, but almost no risk. So, back to the risk return ratio.

Um, if you want to double your

money, you know, you're you're pretty much going to leave investing and go to

gambling or speculating. Yeah. Now, some

people call speculating investing, but it's really not. Speculating is where I want a short quick return on my money.

That's speculating. Day trading stocks is not

investing. That's buying and selling stocks on a daily basis or a weekly basis. That is speculating. When you build a when a builder, a home builder builds a home that does not have a buyer, he they called speck houses. Speculating.

They're speculating. They're building an unsold piece of inventory they hope to

sell now. They're not investing for 10 years when they build that house.

Praise. They pray they're not investing for 10 years. They they hope you're going to buy the house when you So that's why they're called speck houses.

They're speculating. The builders are speculating. That's not investing. It's right next to gambling.

and you can make a lot better money speculating, but you're taking the ultimate high risk. It's it's kind of an all or nothing play usually. It's why I don't buy commodities like gold and um

wheat futures or whatever. I I because it's all speculating. It's short-term plays with a gain. It's why we don't do Bitcoin. It's a shortterm play with a

potential gain. And it's got a no track record. The only track record it has is filled with fraud and go to jail, do not pass go, right? And so it's just a mess.

So the whole the whole marketplace is high ultra high risk speculating. It's

not even investing. But along the spectrum of investing, the more risk you take, the more money you ought to make.

So if you put mutual funds, I've got a mutual fund that opened in 1934.

Uh it has had like in that 80 or 90

years it's had like I don't know 10 years it lost money out of 80 or 90 years or something like that. Not consecutive not consecutive years but in the entire time 10 different individual times individual years no back never back toback not a single back and they're always major occurrences 911 something since 1934 okay and it's averaged 12.2% since 1934.

Okay. Now, if I can make that investment by simply pushing enter on my computer,

it's all I got to do. Hit push a button.

There's no I don't have any effort to go

with it. Then, if you're going to do if you're going to flip houses, that's speculating. Mhm. All right. You're hoping to make a quick buck. You dad gum better well make more

than 12% on your money. You ought to make 20% at least.

ought to be your margin. It ought to be more, but at least a minimum of 20%.

Otherwise, you're taking too much risk versus the 12 you could make with no with a 1934 historical track record.

Okay. Yeah. Um you you got to the risk

ratio on that is way different. And where does the effort play into it, too?

Yeah. And effort. and the effort plays into it and and the worry because all speculating involves jumping in and out and involves a level of fretting over it and ringing your hands over it. Mental calories um mental calories burning.

Investing even in high-risk things

doesn't involve the same level of calorie burn. Yeah. That speculating does. But where you guys mess up sometimes out there in the tick-tock land of finance is they they confuse

speculating with investing.

Investing is always long-term.

Speculating is a quick gain, but a

higher much higher risk gain at best.

And then past that is actual gambling.

Mhm. I mean, when you're specking on a house, flipping a house, or you're speculating even on Bitcoin, it is not the same as playing the roulette wheel.

It's It's less risk than the roulette wheel because you know you're going to walk away from Vegas. The house wins

100%. Okay. House wins. Bellagio did not

put those light fixtures in there. Uh, you know, they did not put those $10 million light fixtures in there with anybody's money but yours if you were in Bellagio. Okay? I mean, it's Vegas is built on the back of losers. Um, people

who lose money. That's what I mean. And that's that's how it's how the math works. So I'm not saying you physically personally are a loser. I'm saying you lost your money there, right? You're a loser. So yeah, you lost your money. So that's it. So that but that's the spectrum, okay? You go all the way from savings account with no risk, no effort, no calorie burn to the roulette wheel, all the way to the roulette wheel. And the more risk you take, you should make

more money. If you're not, you're missing on the very basic tenant of finance 101, risk return ratio. More

risk should always equal more return. If it doesn't, that's dumb. Don't do that.

Mhm. So, our last caller doing the flips, she needs to be making 20%. And it didn't seem like she was. She don't know. She might be. She might have made 30%. She didn't know. That's true. She didn't know. She didn't even know. But you got to know, number one. And then number two, you need to be making that.

I mean, a good residential builder is going to make 20 plus percent uh most of the time, depending on what type of prop property they're doing, if they're doing specs. Mhm. And if you're not, you're setting yourself up for problems because you're going to hit these slow times when it takes a little while to sell a speculative piece of real estate. You are speculating. You are a speculator.

Look it up in the dictionary. So, is this what we can expect from your investing? Yeah, I might go on the same rent. I might put it in there in the investment live stream investment event.

Yeah. I'm going to do that. What is it? May 2122. I'm doing two hours each night. Mhm. Two hours of it will be on real estate. But I'm going to go a whole lot deeper into real estate for sure.

And I but I'll probably put this rant in there because I've kind of been noodling on it lately. I think it's a problem that people misidentify these things and they call speculating investing when it's not. This is the Ramsey Show.

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## 173. The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `XaQMB5bVMOs` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQMB5bVMOs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:50:42 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke. Common Sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wshaw Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions. The phone number is88255225.

Jade is in Memphis. Hi Jade. How are you? >> Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. So I am We were in baby step two, but now we're in baby step one. and I got a notification that one of our credit cards is in um threat of being

charged off within 30 days. And so I

don't really know what we should do. If I should take out a loan, ask friends for that money um because they're trying to settle or if I should just let it go to collection. >> How much is it?

>> It is 10,000 but they're letting they want to settle for 4,800.

>> Okay. Do you have any money anywhere?

>> No. So, I lost my job in October and I

found out I was pregnant and then I lost the baby um in December.

>> I'm sorry. >> And so, we have less than the $1,000 in

savings and we're paycheck to paycheck right now. >> Okay. What? I'm sorry. I'm sorry you went through that. Uh what are you and your husband earning combined every month? >> Well, so before I mean my job I I got

60,000. So, we we took a $60,000 pay cut. Huh? >> Um, and he makes 50.

>> Are you back? Are you Are you getting a job? Have you found a position?

>> Um, so I have got a new job. I'm a mental health therapist, but it's part-time right now while I build clients. >> Um, so I'm bringing home like anywhere from 500 to a,000 every two weeks.

>> Okay. Okay. That's not that's not too too bad. 500 to a,000 every two weeks.

Okay. So, here's here's what I'm thinking right now. you really are. Um, you've you've been through a lot very quickly and I I applaud you for jumping back on your feet really quick. Uh, is this $10,000? Is this the only debt you have? Is there more?

>> No. So, we have two more credit cards.

Um, so 30 and then this 10, so 40. Um,

the other two were in payment plans for >> um, so when I lost my job, I went into I closed them and I went into payment plan with lower interest rates. M >> um but this one they wouldn't work with us and so we didn't have the money to pay it.

>> Okay. Tell me a little bit more about I'm just trying to figure out what you can scr up if there's anything you can sell how quickly you can get this or if you can even negotiate a smaller amount than the 4,800. Likely not. But I would try it.

Um >> see I didn't know if I should call and I should try that. >> I would not not unless you have not unless you have the money line. >> Try it. >> Not unless you got the money.

Is there anything you can sell off?

>> So, one car we own outright and then one car we still have 10 left on, 10,000 left on. >> Okay. >> Um and that's our main vehicle.

>> How many How many kids do you have, hun?

>> We have one. >> Okay. >> And we have and we pay for daycare. So, she's four. So, we pay >> How quickly is your income going to ramp up, do you think?

>> I'm hoping within the month. Um so, by February, we should get my back to my

income. I get paid 50 I get paid 53 an

hour >> um and I have 10 clients right now. So if I can get up to 20 client then I should reach that >> um by February but this will be charged off by the end of January.

>> How much is Let's stop. Let's stop a second. Okay. Charged off does not mean anything.

>> Okay. >> Okay. You already have a debt that has

gone collection to collections.

your debt is already bad. Agreed.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Okay. When they charge it off, it simply means they are not going to count it on

their books anymore because they don't think they're going to collect it, but it doesn't it doesn't make your credit worse. Your credit already is trashed.

>> Yeah, it's bad. I just didn't want them to like sue us and car.

>> They'll get they'll get around they'll get around to that eventually, but charging it off is not that is not a sign you're getting ready to get sued.

How long ago did you pay the last payment on this account?

>> Um, probably September.

>> Okay. You you're you're I doubt you're in any danger.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> I don't care if they charge it off.

Guess what? But if they charge it off the next day you talk to them, >> they'll take the 4,800 >> cuz they still want their money.

>> Mhm.

>> The only difference is just The only difference is just they're they're coming up with these boogeymen in the closet. Oh, we're going to charge it off. No, please. What does that mean?

No, please. What does that even mean?

Yeah, it doesn't mean anything really.

Okay, so let's not worry about it.

>> I don't want to be kicked while we're down. I know you you could get sued, but

even then you could settle the lawsuit

for the same 4,800. Okay? It's not like

every day this gets uh later and later

and later, the chances statistically of them collecting it is smaller and smaller. So, they are more and more flexible. >> They'll settle for less and less, >> not less and less flexible.

>> Okay? >> So, it's not like it's a one-time good time deal. This is a one-time okay deal

and you probably could get the exact same deal or better two months from now when you guys are back on your feet.

>> Okay. >> I I think I'm just going to say, you know, guys, I you know, we just lost a baby. I've got a brand new job. We simply don't have the money. It's a very

kind offer for 4,800, but I don't have $4,800.

If I did, you probably wouldn't be late.

Well, I didn't know if I should stop paying the other two cards that we're current on to try to make a deal with them or if I should. >> No, just let I would just keep doing what you're doing and let's get back up on our feet and then let's get every get get the debt snowball working >> and start paying those minimum payments you're paying. You can save up some money and call these people and say, "Hey, I got $4,000. I got $3,000.

You want to take that?" If they want to take it, fine. If not, hang up on them. Call them back in two months. They'll do it then.

>> Okay. >> Matter of fact, I know we're not going to let them establish the urgency.

>> I literally when you're telling this story, Jade, it's funny because I literally wrote a similar about a similar instance in my book and you're saying the same thing. What you just said about, oh, I'm thinking of taking these other credit cards and not paying those and paying it to other people. you feel that because of the stress and they're calling you and they're blowing up your phone and you're trying to focus on other things and they're just inundating you with calls and offers.

And Dave is right like just do what you know to do. Keep those minimum payments going. Get on your feet and don't let them be in control. Cuz if you let them be in control, all they want to do is take. They don't care about the fact that you need to buy groceries. They don't care about the fact that you lost a a a baby. They don't care about that.

And so don't give them any more power.

and don't give them any ammunition. There's no sense in having a discussion.

>> Yeah. That's why I stopped making those payments because they just wouldn't work with us. >> And then and guess what? Now they're very flexible.

>> Okay. >> And guess what? Three months from three months from now, they'll be flexible again. >> Be like little gymnasts calling you up.

>> I love it. >> I'm going to give you a copy of my book. Okay, Jade. >> Yeah. Yeah. Jade to Jade. Jade to Jade.

>> Hook. Friend to friend. I never meet anybody with my same name. That's very That's a very new thing for me. So, >> and with a question that you've been through. >> I know. Exactly. It was meant to be on this publishing day.

>> There we go. The book comes out today.

>> Mhm. >> It's on the street. What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting

unstuck from someone who's been there

and it's talk to credit card people at the credit card time charged off.

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Well guys, we know there's a lot of chaos out there making you feel like you cannot get ahead with money. A lot of messages, a lot of voices saying it can't be done. But you have more control

than you think and then you're being told. This year, it's time to take back

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dollar live stream this this Thursday night. Jade and I will be hosting this

and hundreds of thousands of you, probably millions, will be joining us.

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going to give you the clarity in the middle of the chaos and we can show you actually how to take back your money, get ahead with money, and we're going to be giving away $20,000 cash that night.

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and that put you in there for the giveaway and also send you up to get all the the links and everything so you can watch the free every dollar live stream.

Jade and I will be doing it in front of a 2500 person audience right here in our

Ramsey Event Center this coming Thursday night. I'm looking forward to it.

>> Me, too. Yeah, ramseyolutions.comlivestream.

And uh I watched Jade do her portion of it the other day in practice rounds and you guys I listen

I should charge you a lot for this but

it's free. I'm just saying it's really you're going to get some solid information, some things to help you cut through all the garbage that's out there. There's a lot of squawking out there. Have you noticed? And the only way you get rid of the squawking is to have a plan. >> Because then you quit listening to all the squawking. And everybody's got a dad gum opinion about why you can't win.

Have you ever noticed that? And they're all people that aren't winning, by the way. Um, hello. People that are winning,

they don't they don't write in the comments section.

>> Good point. >> You ever seen successful people that stop and write stuff negative in someone else's comments section?

>> They don't. And that your comment section, if you don't know, is not necessarily your YouTube page. It's just your life when you're sitting there saying something positive and they're going, "Oh, yeah, but don't you know about and it's the little man can't get ahead and oh, it's all rigged and the corporations the corporations and the and the taxes and the government and the inflation and Biden and Trump and oh

shut up. [Music] >> Seriously." See, that's the chaos and the voices, the squawking I'm talking about. We're going to help you with that this Thursday night for free.

ramseysolutions.com/livestream.

Be sure and jump in. And uh it's the free every dollar live stream. Katherine

is in Dallas. Hey, Katherine. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Good. How can we help?

>> Uh so I was recently laid off um

effective at the end of the month. Um, and now me and my husband are trying to figure out what we should do with what we have in savings to kind of make that work the best for us.

>> Okay. What were you making?

>> Uh, I was making about 42,000 a year.

>> Okay. Doing what?

>> Uh, as a legal assistant.

>> Okay. And they laid you off after

Christmas.

>> No, before Christmas.

>> Oh, that month. >> The week before. >> The week before. >> I'm sorry.

So you were working for Grinch and Grinch. >> I mean, wow. Might as >> well have. Yeah.

>> I can't imagine. If I was going to lay somebody off the week before Christmas, I would do it the week before Thanksgiving.

>> Just so I didn't do it the week before Christmas. >> Just give it some air.

>> It came after they flew me out for a Christmas party. >> Oh. >> The week before.

>> What did you do at the Christmas party, Catherine?

one free drink and my hotel then.

>> Oh boy. I'm sorry.

>> Oh man, I'm sorry. Okay, this sucks.

Okay, anyway, aside from their lack of um quality timing, um

let's see. So, how's the job hunt going?

>> Um so, I started it that night after a

bottle of wine. >> Good for you. >> Crying. >> A bottle of wine. It's a good thing to sign, you know, start filling out your resume after a bottle of wine.

Yeah. So, I've got a couple of interviews lined up and the goal obviously is to not have any laps.

>> There you go. There you go. So, you got a little severance.

>> Uh, no. No severance. >> Oh, they told me that the notice was our severance.

>> Oh, I see. >> So, you're just trying You don't want to have any lack of uh >> Good. No laps. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's a good plan. All right. >> So, how's how's the how are you getting some nibbles?

Um, I've got a couple of interviews lined up and I hope that like again like

I hope there's no lapse and that I hope that something anything I will do anything. >> Okay. Can you cover can you not cover the laps for one month on your husband's income? >> Yeah. What's he make >> on my husband's income? He's military.

So I think he puts down like if we are filling out a form I think he puts down like 70,000 a year is what he makes.

Mhm. >> Um when we did cuz that night we did a

breakdown of our expenses. Um if we changed absolutely nothing, we would be in the negative every month.

>> How much? >> Um uh it was like a few hundred bucks cuz >> Okay. And how much do you how much do you have in savings?

>> Uh we have about 16,000 between the two of us. I actually went to be a surrogate

>> and had a miscarriage about partway through that process. So, we have a decent amount of money in a separate account because I purposely did not want to spend it um that we have not touched >> aside from the 16,000.

>> No, that is the bulk of >> Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the deal. >> Don't do anything.

just go get a job and if you don't get one and you have a gap for $200 or $300,

take the $200 or $300 out of the 16,000 and then the next month you're back up to even, right?

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That's what the emergency fund is there for. >> Yeah. Now, you've got debt and other stuff though, right?

>> Yes, we do have debt.

>> So, for right now, for right now, we're not doing a total money makeover. We're just going to sit here in the middle of the hurricane until the wind quits blowing and that's when you get the new job and then we will assess the damage

and that might be that you have to pay a couple hundred bucks out of the 1,600 out of the 16,000 to uh to float you for

that one month till you get your paycheck going again. But I'm pretty damn sure listening to you, you're going to have a paycheck in a month.

>> I sure hope so. >> I mean, really, I think you are, don't you?

Uh, I'm watching. >> Okay. So, if you don't if you don't if you don't, it cost you 200 bucks of your savings, right?

>> Yeah. It would cost you a couple hundred. >> And if you don't if you don't the next month, it cost you 200 more.

>> Mhm. >> That's 400 whole dollars

out of 16,000. Whoopde.

>> And if you start creeping up on two or three months, you could easily pick up a little side hustle. >> You're not She's not gonna do that. She's gonna have a job because you got too much going on here. you're going to get a job. So my point is is you just don't do anything and if you have to cover a little bit, you know, less than $1,000 out of the 16, it's no big deal, right? Mathematically,

>> right? >> It just goes all It just goes all with the fear of looking for a job and the pissed off of being mistreated and all that stuff mixes in >> and then the math quits being clear,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz my husband and I disagree. He wants to pay things off and I'm like, "No, but you can't right now. You got to get right You got to get right side up first." >> As soon as you get back to work, the two of you need to combine your income, combine your debt, combine your savings, and start the total money makeover and

start getting, you know, get save $1,000 and take the rest of that 16 and throw it at the debt, smallest to largest once you're moving again. And you know, I want to change your your your mindset on this a little bit, Katherine. And I know it's easy for me to say it on this side of things, but you got to look at this

as an opportunity. Instead of looking at it like, "Oh man, I got fired. I got fired the week before Christmas." And all these negative things, maybe it's an opportunity for you to make more money than you've ever made and have a better job than what you had before in in a more fulfilling work space, right? >> It's not a high bar to get better people to work with.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And note to self, don't fly out to next year's Christmas party.

>> Yeah. >> Wow.

>> No bottle of wine before the interview.

>> Yeah. They started budgeting and did that resume right after that first bottle of wine. We're going to get everything straightened out now by

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] >> Jesse is in Memphis. Hi Jesse. How are you? >> I'm doing better than I deserve. How about you Dave? >> Just the same sir. What's up? Good.

Good. Um, okay. So, little preface. Um,

I work for a great company and I did

fairly well last year and so they were taking my wife and I on a cruise in February along with a lot of the people who had also gotten, you know, the metrics and I was just wondering, I'm in baby step two and so I know I shouldn't be on any vacations or going out spending um, but am I allowed to have an allotted job to use on this vacation?

And yes, I get paid for it. >> Is it just you just need pocket money?

>> You're allowed to do whatever you want to do, Jesse. But you know what? What would we do if you're in baby step two?

This cruise is not costing you anything?

>> No. Um, I get paid the whole time I'm gone. I get room and board and the company vehicle down to the port.

>> Okay. So, so just pocket money for meals or whatever.

>> Meal should be included on the cruise, right? >> Yeah. But you still need a little bit of money. It's just um for like excursions or to have a little fun cuz this is the only vacation that uh I'm quote unquote planning.

So >> what if you planned if you planned it out and you've looked at it, what do you think is the number of the amount of money you think you would need for it that you would spend? >> Oh yes, we did it last year and I did like bare bones so I didn't spend anything. Um and I know that we could do it again like that. Uh but bring like >> Don't talk Don't talk to me about I don't ever get to go on vacation.

And I did a cruise last year. >> Yeah, that's the plan. >> No whiny.

>> agreed. Agreed. >> Wait, let me let me get you back to your senses. How much debt do you have?

>> Okay. Um, so I got about five in consumer um through cards. That's what started this y'all in November. So I've already cut that down from 7K.

>> And then uh I got my car and that's about 14. And that's that's it.

>> I I would go Jesse, but what I would do is I want you to reframe this in your head.

Okay. Um, the reason that we teach people to stay out of restaurants and stay out of vacations while they're in baby step two is total focus.

That I have one job and that's to defeat

the debt. Because if I live like no one

else, later I can live and give like no one else. I'm paying a price to win.

Okay. >> Okay. >> And that's how you frame this decision in your head.

>> Not not Dave, I want to go on vac. We're

not going to get to you on vacation for a long time and we went on a cruise last year, but come on, man.

>> Wait, let me frame Let me frame it to you like that. >> Sorry. No, I mean really, you you need to frame it up with >> I'm going to do this. I don't need Dave's permission to do it for sure.

You're like a grown man and you hit your metrics. Okay. But um but you're I'm gonna do this, but I'm also going to make sure that the altitude and the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed.

>> Oh yeah. >> The away from the rationalizations and the justifications that allowed me to get into this mess in the first place.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's why we do this because we're trying to shock your spirit >> into saying you're not entitled to

vacations or eating out. Those are entertainment luxury items while you're broke people. And I want to I want people's spirit to be shocked. That's what happened to my spirit. I didn't have the option of doing it voluntarily.

It was snatched from me because I was so stupid. I went bankrupt. So I got I got you beat hands down on stupid, right?

>> And I I listen, I thought whining was a little known form of prayer. So I had

whining down too, you know. So, but but what I figured out is is that you have to change the >> the altitude, the attitude, the angle of

your heart permanently regarding these

things. So, you never again uh talk

yourself into something that down deep you know you shouldn't be doing. I think this is fine mathematically.

>> Okay. Yeah. And uh on Jade's point of view, I just wanted to add this real quick. I am picking up a side job this year, too.

So, >> doesn't matter. That should all go towards the debt. It's still it's it's B what we're talking about is you set the boundary and once if you have said to yourself I'm getting out of debt that's the priority. If you let these little things start sneaking past the goalpost more and more sneak past.

It's like it's like when you say I'm not eating any sweets and then somebody makes a pan of brownies. Well, already you've gone past it because the pan is there. But then what do you do? You slice off a little piece and you go I'm just going to have that little piece.

>> Then you go back in and you slice off another little corner and another little corner. And before you know it, you've ate the pan of brownies. following me around.

>> That's what we all do. We've all done it. And that's a great way to think of it. You got a pound of brownies because they gave you the free trip. You get to decide how much you slice off.

>> Don't slice any of it off. You already got the pan is just sitting there.

>> And you know what we're doing is you have to set new neuropathways in your brain. >> Yeah. That's the real part >> that says I'm done with this crap.

So, I would go, but I'm gonna, you know, your your side hustle is to set the new

neuropathways and go, I'm going, but I'm

going to be unbelievably disciplined about this slice.

>> Yes. Very disciplined.

>> Because I know the danger is not the actual slice.

>> The danger is I'm still going back to the brownie pan. >> Yes. Throw the throw the pan away after this slice. >> That's the thing, you know, that's that's what it is. I mean that that's what we're trying to you have to permanently change your way you talk to yourself about this. The words that you use out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The Bible says very true. >> And so the words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves and even the tone

that we use to ourselves about talking ourselves into or out of something reflects whether or not you know is your heart right on this. And that that's the thing. So guys, that's that's the lesson, the takeaway from Jesse's call because it's a good call and Jesse's obviously a good guy and he's obviously a high producing dude. >> And when you go out there though, take a step further what Dave just said.

When you go out there, Jesse, what you can't do is well, I can't spend any money. I can't do that.

to form the words of what you want, which is I'm choosing. Everything's a choice. I've chosen to be grateful that I do this, that the company gave me this cuz otherwise I wouldn't be able to do it this year. Yes. >> Cuz this year >> we're not going on vacation. >> But paying off my debt is my priority. >> Exactly. >> And that's how you talk to yourself. >> Reset this whole this whole set of tapes that's running in your brain, man.

>> Vocab rehab.

>> Um that that's why we do some of the things we do, y'all. It's like the um and what we're trying doing is the pendulum has swung too far to the consumer side >> where he says everything's okay. Hey, just push the submit button, load the cart. Right.

>> Right. >> And uh I can impulse anything I want and I work so hard and I deserve and all these things we tell ourselves >> and all we're doing is swinging the pendulum back to the other side and go, you don't deserve nothing. Shut up. You're broke people, >> man.

>> Good job. >> Your book. >> Yeah. >> The new one. >> The new one that's out today.

>> What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. It's the emotional part of this. >> That's right. >> And that's what we're dealing with. neuropathways, the behavior shifts, all

of those things. And you know, the feedback loops you put for yourself.

>> Yes. >> Uh you know, one of the other things that goes with this too, and Jay, I I know you talked about this in there as well in indirectly,

not exactly the way I'm going to say it, in other words, but >> uh one of the things I did, Jesse, when I was at your thing, it's completely different from your question, but it fits in the same bucket of stuff.

I don't do things mechanically,

tactically with how I pay things

>> that aren't automatically always getting me the discount.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, before there was online bill pay because there was no online.

>> Okay. >> I prepaid my utility bills >> to get the discount. >> To get the discounts. >> Prepaid to get the discounts. And I said I set it on an auto calendar, right? I have automatic draft to this day on my

checking account that goes straight into a mutual fund every single month.

>> Automatically out of my checking account so I don't accidentally forget it.

>> That's right. >> I have automatic discipline all the way through there. There was a guy out 100 years ago when one of my first bestsellers called Automatic Millionaire. >> His name is David David Bach. It was a bestselling book.

>> He said just put everything on automatic so that you're automatically doing smart stuff out. >> Automate smart. Yes. And and you don't have to think about you don't have to builtin discipline with the systems, not like I'm going to grip my teeth and do this every time. >> That's right. That's right. >> And that that's the same kind of thing.

We're resetting how we view this and

what's the attitude, the altitude, and the angle of my heart on this stuff.

It's very good.

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Chris is with us in Denver. Hey Chris, how are you?

>> I'm well. Thanks for taking my call Dave. >> Sure man. What's up?

>> Uh so I used to make good money as an engineer and I was on baby step four before I knew what the baby steps were.

>> Good. Uh then three years ago, I made uh

what I realize now uh two major mistakes

in a row. I bought uh the biggest house I could buy with 3% down and PMI

thinking that uh house hacking would be easy. I'm now doing Airbnb. Uh and then

a few months after that, I quit my job uh because I was miserable there. Uh thinking I had enough savings. Um, I can give you some financial details, but I'm wondering if you think I should sell my house. >> Tell us more. What's >> What?

Oh, yeah. Tell us more.

>> Yeah. So, I quit my job.

>> Uh, and then I realized that I would not

be making my mortgage if I were to do house hacking. >> Uhhuh. >> So, I I pivoted um and then started

doing Airbnb. >> Okay. And where are you living to renovate?

During this time uh I was in the house during renovation time I was living in the house. Sorry. Yeah. I was living in the house and then while I was air while

I Airbnb my house I was living with my friends that have a couple of kids and I was helping them. >> Oh gosh. >> Babysitting in a

very close friend. >> How old are you?

>> I am 37. >> Okay. All right. I mean, sometimes if

you wake up from a nightmare and you're standing kneede in the swamp, the best thing to do is to return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps.

And so that would in this case sound like get a job as an engineer and sell the house.

>> Yeah. >> And then you would have your life back.

>> Yeah. What what prevents you from doing that >> in your mind? Well, I was interviewing for some engineering jobs uh in 2025.

Um it was difficult to come back after taking some years off. And I also know that I'm not suited for a 9 to5 now. Um

and I'm pursuing an >> Why are you not suited for a 9 to5?

What's wrong with you?

>> That's a great question. >> Are you trying to say that you're entrepreneurial?

>> Yeah, I believe so.

>> Yeah. You're suited for it. You don't want to do it. Okay. I don't blame you for that. I don't blame you for that. I'm entrepreneurial, too, and I wouldn't want to be trapped somewhere. I don't I don't have an issue with that. But so, what we're saying is not suited for is not the right phrase. What we're saying is it's not preferable for you.

>> But right now, Right now, you're not really in a phase where you can do exactly what you prefer. >> Exactly. Preference is no longer a point. You're neck deep in quicksand.

>> So, I'm wondering if if I do some numbers, if you think I am in quicksand.

So, in 2024, I broke even with my mortgage with the Airbnb. And then in

2025, I was negative 10 or 15,000 with my

Airbnb. >> Is the Airbnb only where does this sound

like it's fun to you?

>> None of this sounds fun to me. If this was a business unit at Ramsay, we would close the thing and call it failed.

>> Yeah.

Um, I'm wondering if an alternative is.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Why are you reluctant to Why? Hey, why are you reluctant to sell the house?

Yeah, >> you just don't want to get You don't want to admit that this screwed up.

>> Yeah, I I think I might be falling into some cost fallacy.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, definitely 100%. >> What? Tell us tell us the >> Can you sell the house for as much as you owe on it?

>> Uh, yes, I believe so. I put about a h

100,000 into it renovating it.

>> Um >> Oh, you lose that.

>> I mean, what what will the house sell for? >> Yeah.

>> The So, I'm looking at Zillow and Redford right now.

>> I bought it for 650.

>> Mhm. >> Zillow saying 615. Redin saying 580.

>> Oh, so you're not going to get the money out of it.

>> But you put a 100red down or you put 100red in it after you bought it for 650?

100 into it after buying. >> Yeah. So, you owe seven You have $750,000 invested in a house that's worth $600. $600,000.

>> You know better than I did.

>> Well, I mean, is that what you're telling me?

>> That I don't know if if I got an appraisal if it would be worth more. I'm guessing it would be. >> Okay. But I mean, you're telling me you paid $650,000 for it, plus you put 100

into it, meaning you have $750,000 in this house. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And you don't think it's worth anywhere near that is what you're telling me.

>> I don't know. >> Get Get a real estate agent. Go sign go on our site. You need to go to ramseyolutions.com and just in the box type in real estate agent.

It'll take you where you need to go. And you need to have somebody come out there. done that. >> Okay.

And what did they say? What they what would they list it for ver based on what they saw? >> Well, I I started doing that step and then I was like, I'm going to talk to Dave directly. >> Facts.

And now I'm telling you, go do it. See it through so you can see what the actual numbers are. >> You need to have numbers. Uh facts are your friends.

You're in trauma >> and you need to sell this thing if you can. And you need to retrace your steps and get back on solid ground. And then from there, think about how you can come up with some uh career choices after you're making a living again. >> How much money do you have in the bank in in retirement or say no?

>> Probably like about 10,000.

>> 10,000. Okay. >> You got to you got to get a job, man.

Well, since you find the work you're wired to do because I think you don't know what you want to do and I think you're just kind of coasting and this idea that you might be an entrepreneur, I'm glad that that's so, but we need to get some some beef around that and and figure out what that's going to be. In the meantime, yeah, we'll send you the book, but you also just need to get a job. >> Yeah. So, the first thing you're suited to do is buy food, lights, and water. The

second thing you're suited well to do is pay your stinking bills.

>> The third thing you're well suited to do after you've done those two things is find something that is a style of work

that you enjoy, meaning entrepreneurial and more freewheeling than in a nineto-ive. >> But you don't really have a lot of choices right now, man, because you've done screwed this up. Hello.

>> Yeah, >> you've made a mess. And so you got to get the shovel out. The barn is full of poop. >> Today is J O. >> Yeah, there's some shoveling that needs to be done here. So, yeah, you got a mess. Wow.

>> Yeah. So, you do not get to as an adult,

boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, um

do something that you saw on Tik Tok.

um that feels

fun or good or well suited whatever the

phrasiology we want to use is

when the mathematics around it don't math >> 100%. >> That that's called you know you you can't >> that's not reality. >> The math does not form to your desires.

No, >> the math does not form to your uh suited.

The math forms to the math.

>> The math when Sam and I were getting out of debt, uh we knew we wanted to start a business, but that takes time, right?

You got to build it up. And so in the meantime, you have to work and you have to do the things that close the gap so that the math maths so you can continue to accomplish your goals financially while you accomplish your goals career-wise. You have to do it all at the same time. You can't just go, "Well, I want to be an actress or well, I want to own a business and I'm not going to do anything until I have that success." That's not real. >> God designed me to be on the stage.

Good.

And in the meantime, >> that means you're also destined to wait tables.

>> That's what that means. >> Every time. >> I mean, we're in Nashville. How do you get the next country music stars attention? Uh, waiter.

That's exactly how you get it, right?

>> Yes. >> And so, I mean, you know, the the there's there's calluses that are involved in these things. Okay. >> Yes. >> You know, God designed me. I'm suited for. I'm good. Me, too. We all are

wonderfully made. We have these that that's why we have finding the work you're wired to do that we're going to send to Chris. Okay, that's all great, but you don't get to use this specialness >> that card >> to try to violate mathematics.

>> It it just it'll destroy your life. It's too harsh. It's mean out there, boys and girls. Mean out there.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washaw, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and author of a brand new book that lands in stores today. What no one

tells you about your money. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Lann is in Indianapolis. Hi, Lannne. How

are you?

>> I am doing better than excellent, Mr.

Dave. How are you? >> Just the same. What's up?

Well, I got kind of an interesting one for you. Um, my husband and I run a

construction company together. He started the business in 2018 before we met, um, which was 2021, engaged in

2022, and married in 2023.

Um, I help him with some aspects of the business, but I'm not totally 100% full-time with it just yet. I still have a full-time job on the side or not on the side. It's the main job for me unfortunately. But um right now my

current access in our bank's finances for the businesses as a signer because the bank I guess needs me to be listed as an owner with the state which wasn't a problem until recently. My husband

wears many hats and doesn't need to take care of the minutia of running a business like fixing business associate

debit cards for our team members. So I

went into the bank to help an associate with their debit card fix their pen and I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't an owner. So I asked them what we needed to do. I needed to file through the state,

all that fun stuff. We asked our CPA, got some advice on what to do, and he told us the things that we needed to do.

One of those things was we needed to assign business ownership percentage.

Here's where my question comes in. As a married couple, um, following the biblical principles, I said 50/50

because we are one flesh. We do this thing together. Um, and that's just

where my mind and my heart was at. My husband has his business uh what I call

business glasses and hearing aids in. So his his mindset was thinking business and he came back with 5149

and that that didn't sit right with me.

We talked about it. Um something came up and we had to table it. And so um my

mind was kind of racing. I was emotional and so I went to the >> Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Yeah. Regardless of the percentage that's on the piece of paper, how will the two of you treat this business?

>> We treat it as we both own it.

>> Own it. >> It's You're going to treat it as 50/50 regardless of what's on the paper.

>> I bet. Aren't you?

>> Yeah. I mean, it's kind of what we do now. >> I kind of think you do now. I kind of think that's the way you're all both. You were in agreement until he went, "Well, that's a little weird." Okay. So,

I'll give you an example. I I we have several LLC's that I own 0%.

And Sharon owns all of it.

>> Oh, >> in case some idiot decides that Dave Ramsey's got a target on his butt and he finds an idiot lawyer to help him.

>> Makes sense. >> So, and you know how much I'm worried about that >> about about Sharon having a 100% of it?

Not at all. cuz I told her if she leaves I'm going with her.

>> Yes.

>> You're stuck together. Period.

>> That's it. So, I mean I I think the spirit of your marriage is really what matters in this discussion is what I'm saying, >> right? >> So, I couldn't care less what's on the paper. Um I think your 50/50 is the

spirit.

>> And when he said 5149, it violated your spirit. It's like what?

>> More than you were actually worried about him quote being in charge because

we all know he's not in charge. He's not doing the details. You are.

>> You already covered that.

>> Yeah. >> And he knows that, >> right? But it's as if he wanted to own own, you know, have that one little trump card somewhere in case he thought he could flex at some point. Haha, that's funny. But um you know, I mean, say this is kind of the way this went down. Am I missing something?

>> No, it was more so like he's uh he's been married before so he understands things happen and so his mindset was sort of protective mode.

>> Yeah. It won't matter if 41 5149

if if things go down u he's going to have to take care of you anyway and it's going to look suspiciously the same. And I had a

feeling this was going to be the answer because uh I I started thinking about it's like it's just it's it's splitting hairs because all I need to do is have some ownership to change debit cards.

>> Yeah. You already had practical

spiritual ownership and for that matter

legal because he would have had to deal with the asset if he owed 100% of it in the event of a divorce. It's got to be on the plate. Mhm.

>> It's up there for to get cut in half just like everything else is.

>> Just like his 401k has got his name on it if he works in corporate America. But guess what? You're going to take a big bite out of it in the event of a divorce. The wife is Hello.

>> Right. >> Even though your name's not on it. So that's the same exact thing.

>> So he's not he you don't get clear of the worst case scenario with this part of the discussion. you get clear of that this part of the discussion with a prenup if you want to go that way or a postnup in this case which is really hairy. So no I I I think as long as the

two of you are in spirit

we own everything together. We're doing life together. We're going forward together. I don't care what the paper says, >> right? And I mean does it really matter what the paper says? And the the other thought was in case something happens to him, continuing to let the business run smoothly as a 1% owner, I could still do that. >> Yeah. But I'm >> right now on that LLC I'm talking about, if uh my wife passes away in a car wreck, I don't have any ownership in that.

>> Now, I have a will and she has a will in an estate plan, it's instantly mine and I've got control over it. But I don't have >> the bank. I've got to take documentation to the bank to start cash and check. I'm on the checking account. But I mean, if I wanted to close that thing down, I've got to, you know, I've got to bring documentation and death certificates and stuff now because I'm not I'm not even on the ownership of it at all.

>> Right? >> So, I've still got all that crap to deal with. It's just it's just your worst case scenarios are always worst case scenarios. So the diff the big deal is are we okay in our marriage relationship

and are we aligned on how we view

marital assets that it's ours as you said and you you clearly articulated that Lan and beautifully by the way good job >> so I mean do you have Sam and you have a

business >> we do and there's things especially now that I'm not part of it that I'm not part of it but I also know that if something happened to him all of that. I would be able to have then have access to whatever it is and it would be willed to me and all. I know like he said 50/50 in spirit. I think what really bothered you is what Dave said that he said it in a technical way and it had you questioning if you guys view yourselves the same way.

>> Mhm. >> And I would just ask about that at that point. It's really not about the business. It's really not about the money or anything like that. It's just, hey, when you said that, that just that hurt my feelings cuz I thought that we were 50/50 and it kind of made it feel like you were going for some power there. >> Ooh, good call, >> you know. >> Yeah, it was kind of a flex.

>> Yeah, it was a little flex. >> I had this before I had you.

>> Sometimes you just got to flick it.

>> Woo! >> Flick it back down.

>> Oo, vicious.

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Well, big news, guys. We mentioned it earlier. Jade Wshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is officially

here. You get your copy at $24.99 at ramiesolutions.com/store.

Jade, what's this book about? This book is helping you diagnose the emotions that have been keeping you stuck, running in the background that you didn't know were there. Things like anger and guilt and shame and frustration. I'm going to help you diagnose it, call it out, and then I'm going to show you the way through it so you can finally use those emotions to help you instead of hold you back. Get

your copy right now. Ramseyolutions.com/store or anywhere great books are sold. Becca

is with us in Denver. Hi, Becca. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I had a strategy question. So, I am in baby step number two. I am 35, single,

um, paying off a good amount of debt.

Um, and I had a question about my student loans. Um, I'm about 46,500 in

student loan debt. >> Um, but they're technically in forbearance. Um, and I guess my question

is I I've seen some horror stories of,

you know, people opening up their student loan accounts and oh my gosh, they've doubled or whatever because of interest. Um, but my question is, is it

worth it to budget a, you know, a specific amount to my student loans, even though I technically don't have a minimum on them right now, and use

whatever that amount could be towards you, my my credit card is my big focus right now. >> Okay. Um,

I I get your concern, but you're not going to make any extra progress by doing that. you're gonna slow down your progress is all.

>> Yeah, >> the math is exactly the same.

>> Actually, it's a little better if you pay it on the credit card because the credit card is a higher interest rate.

So, if you're interest, let's say you were going to give a $100 to the student loan and the interest rate on it's 5%.

And instead, you put the $100 on the credit card and the interest on that's 24%. Well, obviously the $100, you know,

you you saved more interest by reducing the 24% account. agreed.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's it's mathematically incorrect to do what you're talking about. But I'm not as worried about that as I am that I just want you to pound that credit card with viciousness.

>> Yeah. >> And then get and then open up the smallest student loan and pound it with

viciousness when you get to it in the debt snowball. >> Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. I'm about uh in

total in debt, I'm about uh 92,400

in debt. Um I have about 3,000 in medical from an ER visit.

>> Uh my credit my credit card is at like 165. My car is at 266 and student loans.

>> Uh I work in ministry. I make about $76,000 a year.

>> Got an awfully expensive car.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And >> yeah, I my car my car payment is like 543. >> What's your car worth?

>> Um, that's I I'm not good with car stuff

if I'm being honest with you. Uh, it's a 2021 Infiniti QX50.

>> That'd be my homework for you tonight is to go on Kelly Blue Book and see what it's worth and if it's, you know, if you if you're not,

get a hoopy for a while and start pounding and not have a $500 car payment

for a while. I don't want you to drive junk the rest of your life. But I'd love for you to drive junk so you could get rid of the rest of this junk >> because with that 543 back in your pocket, you'd be finished with that medical debt very quickly. >> Boom. Boom.

>> I and I have taken on um because I am serious about my credit card debt. I actually have two other with my full-time job. I actually have two other part-time jobs now. Um >> Wow.

like at the grocery at the grocery store just um you know doing some shopping and then uh I have friends who opened up a business so I'm helping them on the weekends. >> Good. So every month every month what are you bringing in? >> Do you know?

>> Um both part-time jobs I actually just kind of started. I'm hoping between the both of them per month I can make like maybe like 500 at one per month and then 600 at the other just because I'm just doing them on the weekend. >> Yeah, that's good. Okay.

So here's you're you're not afraid of hard work and you're focusing on this. These are all really, really good signs that you're going to win. Okay? And so what I'm trying to do is how quick can I plow through?

use to shovel $92,000?

>> Mhm. >> That's what I'm looking at. And so if I do $30,000 a year, it's three years.

That's 20 That's $2,500 a month.

>> Okay. >> If I sold the car, it's two years,

>> right? And that's how my brain starts thinking cuz I want to be free.

>> Cuz if you didn't have a single payment in the world, including these student loans hanging over your head that you're not making payments on right now, but you're worried about building up, but if you didn't have any of this in your background, and you your freedom in the

spirit to do ministry would be completely different. Would you agree with me on that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I actually like the thinking behind that, and I want to like double click on it. when you're looking at a high number of debt like in your case 92,000 some folks have 150,000 Sam and I had 400 you know 60,000 what you have to do is focus

on that monthly number because it's overwhelming to say I have $92,000 of debt I need to pay off but if you reverse engineer it and you've already done the math to say if I pay $2500 a

month I'm out in two years then the only thing you need to focus on is $2500 a month I got to make $2500 on the side jobs yeah The extra is what I'm saying.

>> Yeah, I'm saying. And we got,00 on the side job. So that means we only need out of our budget X and which means we might be able to do 3500, >> right? But that smaller number that's a lot easier for your brain to break down and go after than 92,000.

Do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Forget. >> So it's it's a it's a much it's a it's a easier it's easier to digest for you and then you can actually go for it. >> Then what we're going to do is we're going to get on a tight budget, increase income, which you've already done the increase income part. We're going on beans and rice, rice and beans.

Nothing on the student loans right now, and cut up the credit cards, and we're going to attack that smallest debt, which is probably one of those stupid little medical bills. We're going to pay off a whole bunch of those in month one.

And then in month two, we're going to start hammering this credit card like it's evil. And you're going to start seeing Samuel L. Jackson on the TV and start yelling at him. start yelling at him. What's in your wallet?

>> My wallet's got cash in it.

>> Hello. >> With my medical bills, with my medical bills, I'm actually um I'm not as worried as with the medical bills because my employer actually I have an HSA and they contribute to it very generously. So, I kind of not that I

don't count it, of course I do, but I'm like, "Oh, that's another account that I when the money comes in, then I just spend from that." >> When does the money come in?

>> Uh I contribute to it monthly. Um, and then they contribute a nice portion uh

quarterly. >> Okay. All right. So, >> a little free money. >> Yeah. We're still going to we're going to take that free money, but we're not going to wait on it 5 years. Okay.

>> Right. >> So, I want you to I still want you to clear those debts smallest to largest.

So, really, you get to screw around with this HOA stuff, HSA stuff about three or

four months, and after that, you need to just pay it off.

>> Mhm. >> Just get it done. Get it done. I am worried about all this.

I want it out of your life because I want you free, my friend. >> Yes. >> Okay. We're going to set you up with every dollar which will help you the budgeting app and it also it helps you walk through.

It's not just budgeting anymore. It's got all the stuff in it now and it's going to walk you through all the steps we're talking about. It's going to coach you along the way. It's very personalized now.

It's very the algorithm on it is incredible and it's all we're going to give it to you.

So you hang on, Becca, and Christian will pick up and get you signed up for every dollar and it's going to walk you through this whole process. So you're going to win because you're paying attention. Yes. You're not afraid of hard work and you're learning new things you never learned before.

>> You've been victimized by these things and instead you're going to turn around, put your thumb on the put your foot on the neck of it and say, "No more. No more. We're done." >> And you know, you got to stand on the neck of the snake and say, "You're done.

>> You don't have you don't have a shot anymore, buddy." >> Absolutely. Absolutely. I like what you

said about the I keep thinking about that when you're thinking about a grand total of debt. It helps so much to jump

into every dollar and do the financial road map so you can see the snapshot >> with what I'm earning now. How long will it take? And it might show you something like three or four years and you get to say that's too long. >> So I add the >> I'm going to add more money to it. And then when you get to >> it's too long I'm going to sell the car.

>> Yes. >> Or it's too long. I'm going to have a garage sale >> and reverse engineer it back. And then you can focus on what are the three things I do to get that money. I sell the car. I do the garage sale. And instead of focusing on, you know, $200,000 of debt and I'm stuck. >> I'm stuck. I'm stuck. Yeah. The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time.

That's exactly right.

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ABCnews.com reporting. The stock market recorded st recorded stellar year-end returns for

2025 when the markets closed before New

Year's. Performance marked three straight years of double-digit gains.

The S&P finished up the year up 16%.

>> Oh, >> Jade, we often talk about around here how the only thing you hear on the news about the markets is bad news.

>> That's right. >> They never report good news.

>> So, let me give you the good news. Okay.

The stock market was up, the S&P in

2023, 26%.

>> The stock market was up in 2024,

25%.

The stock market was up in 2025,

16%.

That's a total of 67%.

in three years. That means three years ago, if you had $100,000 in your 401k in

a basic growth stock mutual fund, if you've added nothing to it, you now have almost doubled it at 170.

>> That's right.

>> That's not on the news.

>> No. And that's a lot of money >> that you missed >> because you were watching the news worrying about government shutdowns and

tariffs and artificial intelligence bubbles, whatever that is, and whatever

else it is that you believe that you're going to watch bad news for every day.

So meanwhile, I'm just the tortoise. I just keep investing every week, every day, every

month. I just put a little more in. A little more in. And all these years, 65

years old, I've been doing that over and over and over.

>> Not worrying about what the news said.

We've outlived the internet. We've outlived Sirius XM radio. We've outlived

Bill Donahue and Sally Jesse Raphael.

>> That's a blast from the past. >> Wow. I'm trying to think of weird stuff from the past. Yeah. And here we are.

And you know, you just keep investing and you just keep living and you keep and guys, you're not going to hear this on the news. Okay? The only thing you

hear on the news is when the whole world's coming to an end, right? And what happened to the stock market when the president did so and so or when he didn't do so and so or when Iraq did so and so or Iran did so and so or

name it and it's in the news and then oh the market the market the market up 16% last year 16%.

That means if it had done half, if you have a mutual fund that sucks so bad that your mutual fund did half as good as the stock market, you still did three

times what your high yield savings would have done.

>> It's a big deal. >> Smoke on that for a second. Okay. Hello.

This is a big deal, y'all. This is why you start investing, you keep investing, and you don't stop investing. And if you need to turn off the news, it's not a bad idea. And this is also why you get started on the things we teach so you don't miss out on stuff like this because the time is >> get your butt out of debt so you get to take advantage of this.

>> Yes, the time is passing >> cuz I mean if you got a million >> in there during this time >> it's looking nice.

>> Oh yeah. >> In three years on your million

>> sleeping. >> If you got 10 million >> Mhm. You just made $7 million

on your 10 million in three years.

Now, is that a guarantee? No. Is it going to happen in the next three years? No. >> But it explains why you're in such a good mood.

>> That and coffee. Yes. I love it. Oh,

that's fun. Tyler. Tyler's with us in Toledo. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

So, my fiance and I kind of have a

interesting situation, I guess. We've been working a side hustle for uh about two years now um at our farm and she's

been the manager and I kind of just I get to do the fun stuff, sit on the tractor and drive around and pretend I can help him. Well, um,

so the previous owner passed away and now the son owns it and he's, you know, 18 hours away in Oklahoma. So, he's trying to sell it to us. So, it would be buying out the business and the house and we've been looking at houses.

>> I'm sorry. The the business is what? A farm. >> The It's a It's a horse farm. So, it'd be a boarding facility. We have >> Are you going to get the land?

>> Yep. We'd get the land, we get the house, we get all >> What is the land and the house worth?

>> About 3/4 of a million to 800,000.

>> Okay. And what does this business profit?

>> The profit right now is about 8,000 a month.

>> Okay. Right.

Um Okay. And what does he want to sell it for?

um hasn't given us a hard number yet.

We're still in the financial stages, the planning, beginning stages of it right now, but we're he's talking like 650 to

750. >> So, he's going to sell you a $750,000

piece of real estate for $650,000 and

give you a free business

>> pretty much. He just wants >> Why? >> That doesn't feel right. >> Why? Well, well, he wants us to have it and wants us to run it in, you know, under his dad's legacy and all that good stuff. And he's still got younger siblings in the area and >> Okay. >> Um, so let me let me poke let me poke a

second and make sure cuz when I hear something's too good to be true, you know what the saying is, right?

>> If something sounds too good to be true, it's because it's too good to be true. >> Yeah. >> So, >> is this land and house really worth this or are you just wishing it was?

No, that's I mean, you know, that's what Zillow says and that's what the last estimate was. Um I think five years ago.

>> Then then that means there's something on the business side that's Well, I'm not saying this, but it feels like something on one of these sides isn't performing the way it seems.

>> If if I mean, this guy really likes

y'all. He really likes you. Like $400,000 likes you.

Is that what I'm That's what I'm saying.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I I hear what you're saying.

>> Okay. So, I I really want to dig into this if I'm you guys because I I if if

this is if these numbers are all accurate, this is a sweet sweet freaking deal. Okay. Now, how does he want to be paid?

>> That's what we're trying to figure out right now because we've been, you know,

planning our lives. We're supposed to be getting married in September of this year. >> Good. Um, and then we were planning on,

you know, buying a house. >> Yeah. Get married before you close this deal. If you're going to close this deal, get married before you close the deal. Now, the um the $8,000 a month

profit.

>> Is that after you're paid and your wife is paid by the old man that died?

>> That is after everybody's paid, all that

good stuff. >> And what do you get paid?

Um, well, right now I'm currently working for freeboard for my horse.

>> What were you getting paid when the old man was alive?

>> About $12 an hour just for barn work.

>> Okay. So, a month in a month you would make in a month you would make what?

>> Uh, we'll call it 500 bucks a month.

>> Nothing. Okay. And what is your wife being paid? >> Your fiance to be wife being paid?

She's making about three grand a month over there. >> Okay. So, let's pretend for a second.

Geez.

That you gave uh almost all of the profits from the business after you all live on 30 after you live on $40,000 a year, which is what you're making. Okay? and you live on the property and and you give the $100,000 a year roughly to the son

and we're going to give you almost all like 95% of the profit goes to you until

we get to 650. Would he do that deal?

>> I guess that would be something I'd have to bring up with him, but I would think so. >> That' be take you about six years to work it out. >> Mhm. >> You'd be able to make $40,000 for six years and then the whole thing would be free and clear.

>> Yeah. And that I wouldn't quit my full-time job either. My full-time job.

>> Oh, you have a full job.

>> Oh, yeah. I'm a I'm a brick layer. So >> Oh, I missed that part of the conversation cuz you didn't bring it up. Okay, >> even better. >> Yeah, I didn't bring that. This is This has been a side hustle for us.

>> I got you. Riding the tractor for the fiance is a side hustle. I got it.

>> You know what? And I also think this deal, if if he likes the sound of it, that's going to give you a good indicator if if those profit numbers are right. But if he's like, I would never do that deal, then I definitely want to dig deeper. a percentage of profit after you make enough to live on a healthy like all the profit almost until he gets his money and then he's done. And then if there's no profit, he don't get his money.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Lucas in Arkansas. He says, "How long is too long to save for a down payment on a house? We're expecting a baby soon and will go down to a one income once he arrives. Uh to purchase a modest but well-built home in our area, we would have to save over 120,000 as a down

payment in order to qualify with one income. We're debtree, but it will take us years to get there." Um, so there's

there's a couple things that I'm thinking about here. Um, when we teach the baby steps, baby step 3B is when

you're saving for a down payment. And then after that comes baby step four where you're investing your 15%. And I think Dave, what happens is people go, "Okay, I want to do 3B, but I don't want to sacrifice baby step four in the time in the market." Like we talked about the last segment. How do I kind of juggle that together?

Because the truth is obviously if you have focus and you take all the money you're going to put more money towards the down payment. But with a long horizon like this, do you want to really go 5 6 years or whatever the time frame is and not invest?

>> Probably once I got past the two I would say two to three years. Is that what you would say? Two to three years is when I'd say okay no more putting every dollar to the down payment. Now I'm going to split it and I'm going to try to do some towards retirement.

Not miss out there. And and I know that that's a sacrifice. We we rarely say to do multiple things at one time, but in this case, it's all good. >> Yeah, it's all good.

>> But the other thing, Lucas, is this. Um, >> you know, your income during that time is probably going to go up.

>> Um, your personal income, her income is going to disappear. Oh, wait a minute.

Maybe we don't need to do that exactly that way. If we want to buy a house, >> that's true. You can think >> maybe she needs to find some work athome type work, something that's flexible where she's home with the kid >> and does some work at home.

>> Well, uh, baby is sleeping and so forth.

>> And so, um, yeah, we need an alternative where mom creates an income >> and that that'll that'll change the picture, too. Um, and then of course

also u you know what you're saying is

here's the thing. You can't just yell at

the sky and say, "My wife's going to

stay at home and we're going to buy a house >> in our 20 in our 20s." >> In our 20s >> happen. >> Yes. It doesn't, you know, shazam. It doesn't work right. And so uh you you are making a choice and it's a good choice if you ask me to say mom wants to be

home with the baby.

>> That's a fine choice.

>> I would never shame you for that choice.

>> But it is a factor in an equation.

>> It's you just cut your freaking income in half. >> That's right. And so you are deciding

not to be able to afford a house as quickly >> because you're sacrificing one for the other. Or you could say the opposite of that, like a lot of ladies that work here at Ramsay full-time. I'm looking at several of them while I'm saying this, right? Jade, my daughter Rachel, and you

know, Kelly across the glass and so on.

We have kids. We are raising a family.

And we are professional ladies.

>> And um you know, we we work around that.

And that's it's not only for money, but it's also what you've chosen to do with your life. Okay. >> Uh it's also for money.

>> And so um I've noticed that we pay y'all. And so that kind of stuff. So >> it plays a big part. >> It's for money. Hello. So um you know,

and so I I think that's the thing. you you can just decide that that's what you're going to do. But by deciding that, you're also deciding some other things. >> That's right. >> There's some unintended consequences or they should be actually intended unintended consequences is my point.

>> You say by definition, >> I'm going to choose to live in that neighborhood >> because we have one income instead of this other neighborhood because we have one income or this other type of house or whatever, this nicer property, right?

Mhm. >> And by definition, we're going to have to buy something that's u a little different to get our foot in the door to get started on this home ownership thing because we're choosing to do this on one income. And I I don't think it's a bad thing, but you don't get to just say

I I do whatever I want >> and yell at the sky. You can't yell at the sky. It doesn't work. You know, you you still have to there's mathematics involved in all this. And it's it's um

you know the the this idea that when money is one place, it by definition can't be another place. It it's a fixed thing. It it doesn't it it doesn't float around. It's not omnipotent.

>> So, >> hey guys, speaking of homes, buying or selling is a big deal. The market is picking up. I predict a uh a robust

spring. Right now, we're sitting at about 5%, just a little bit over 5% on a

15-year fixed rate.

Julia is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Julia. How are you?

>> Hi. Doing good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, my husband and I are starting Babyset 2 this month with $75,397 in debt.

Um, so when would it be most advantageous to refinance our balloon mortgage? >> Oo, immediately.

That's a panic. When is the balloon due?

>> So, uh, the balloon is up in 2029.

>> Gez. >> Um, so our current interest rate is 5.5%.

>> Yeah.

>> And if we refinance now, that'll give us about 6.6%.

>> No, it won't.

I just said just a moment ago, 15ear fix right now is 5%.

>> Really? >> Yeah. >> We've been watching. Wow. We've been watching the cuz we just did budgeted everything and we were googling the interest rates and it said 6.6 >> between. Yeah, it's going to be between 5.5 and 5.08.

>> Yeah. Right. Right. Right now it's it's hovering in the low fives for a 15-year fixed this week as you and I are talking. Now, I don't know when people are going to be listening to this particular version of the podcast, but yeah, at the moment you and I are talking, that's what we're looking at. So, call Church Hill Mortgage and talk to them about refinancing. If you roll 100% of your refinance, if you got a lot of equity, >> uh yeah, we have uh 100 to 12.

>> Just roll your refinance cost in and nothing out of pocket.

>> Okay. >> And get rid of this balloon cuz this thing's hovering over your head and you're just inviting you're inviting an earthquake in your life.

>> Okay? >> You know, you know, you ever heard the saying, if anything can go wrong, it will Murphy's law.

>> Yes. As you approach this balloon, >> if you leave the balloon in place, you increase the likelihood of

job loss, medical problems, all these

things that happen at exactly the wrong time, screw up your income, and keep you from being able to refinance and you lose the house.

>> Okay, >> that's what I don't want. Okay, right now everything's sitting pretty and sassy. Let's not do a bunch of little half percent math and try to screw something up here. Let's get rid of this danger that you've signed up for in your life. This is nightmarishly suicidal.

You've got to get this off your home before something happens and you're not able to >> right now while you can. It's called get it while the getting's good. Right.

>> Yes. >> Man, that stuff balloons scare me to death. Can y'all tell? >> Oh, yeah. >> I hear the fear in my voice. It turns into anger. Yeah. Oh, man. And I can't stand it because these people get stuck

and you know when we end up with them in financial counseling with one of our coaches is they're having to sit down because they are stuck and they lost a job or you know their sister got cancer or whatever and they've got all these income problems and credit problems and stuff's popped up >> or some kind of identity theft thing blew up their credit score taking them six months to get it fixed and they can't get refinanced in the meantime.

All this other crap happens just exactly at the time you're doing that. It's just a disaster. Oh, yucko. Yucko yucko.

Please act like your hair is on fire and get rid of that thing. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. You're scaring me.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and author of a brand new book that hits the streets today called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone Who's Been There. You do need a copy of this book. It's available today anywhere great books are sold.

John is in Los Angeles. Hey, John. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh, my situation, I'm trying to figure out, uh, the practicality of purchasing a home in or around the

Los Angeles area.

>> It's very, very expensive.

>> Um, I I think I do relatively well income-wise. >> What do you do? What do you make?

>> So, this year I made $200,000.

>> That's pretty good. >> Um, right around there. Yeah. And but even with, you know, that relatively high income, uh it still feels a bit out

of reach. Um in 2024, I I paid off

>> all of mine and my wife's uh student loans were 100% debtree.

>> Way to go. >> Um but >> yeah, but um that that down payment still seems like a little far-fetched.

And even if that is achieved, the monthly mortgage payments, like honestly, I mean, not regardless of the interest rate, but it's going to be a lot. Yeah. cuz uh you know the the fixer uppers out here run you about 850

or like 800 to 850. So, >> and that's no power.

>> Yeah, exactly. It's it's a very it's a it's definitely a fixer oper. And um kind of just trying to navigate.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> Um I am in sales for a large Fortune 10

company. >> Okay. Is it tied to Los Angeles?

No, it's not. >> Okay. So, why Los Angeles?

>> That's Well, sorry. I Let me Let me rephrase that. So, my my career is in Los Angeles. I am a I am directly correlated with my territory out here.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. That's what I was asking. Yeah. So, it is tied to Los Angeles. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um well, I don't think you're the

the numbers that you're giving are uh wrong. And I think you've you've realistically assessed this and it's kind of like, well crap, I thought $200,000 a year was a lot of money, you

know, it's like, golly, this is weird.

And that's the way it feels. It feels that way to me every time I hear it. And it's still the the reality of the math is what you're giving me. And I I think you everything you said I think was the truth. I don't think there was anything as exaggerated or fatalistic or anything there. So um you know the the thing is

uh how old are you guys?

I'm 24.

>> Okay. All right. That's good news. Okay.

And what did And that the 200,000 includes your wife's income.

>> No, she stays at home. We had a child.

>> Okay. All right. So, it doesn't include her income. Okay. Good. All right. Um the uh So, that's your household income.

You're doing really well, man. For 200k, you're killing it. >> Um Yeah. So, you got um two or three

options or ways of looking at this. And that is one, you could say, okay, I'm in Los Angeles for a while. This is my adventure. Probably not going to spend my life here. And so if I rent for three or four years and see how the career thing goes, that's not the end of the world.

>> And then you end up moving to a market that you can actually afford and hopefully you can make the same kind of money somewhere. Okay, that's that's one thing that could happen. Okay, another thing that could happen is you say, "Okay, I'm going to scratch and claw and I'm going to buy this little dinky house for $800 or $900,000. It's a fixer upper

to at least get my foot in the door >> and then at least I own something, right? And at least then as as as as prices go on up, I get to ride the wave instead of being crushed by the wave. Right. >> Right. >> So you you you you sacrifice

uh home ownership being like a dream come true. Instead, it's like barely

getting in. >> And even still, you'll still have to embrace a bit of a a timeline on this.

>> Yeah. And just knowing that going in so you can set realistic expectations on both sides, what you'll get for the money and how long it'll take you to get the money to get it. >> And that's an okay strategy as well. And it might be two or three years.

>> That's not the end of the world. >> It's not the end of the world. Okay. >> Yeah. The other strategy, the other strategy is to start thinking about, okay, where do I want to live >> where I can buy a piece of real estate because I can't buy a piece of real estate in Los Angeles because you literally live in one of the easily top

five most expensive cities in the world.

>> Yeah. I mean, can you just realistically speaking as I mean, you're making 200,000 between you and your wife. Can you guys live on half that? Can you live on 100,000?

>> Yeah. So, um, we can, but and the

200,000 I do want to specify is before taxes. And, um, >> and we're talking I'm talking round numbers with you. >> If you start if you start chunking somewhere around 100 grand away though, you'd have 300 grand away in three years. That's what she's saying.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We can we can live on half that >> because that's what you're looking at. I mean, I'm just and again, I'm round numbering this. I'm just plugging it in.

So, I'm looking at it with you. But if you commit to a three or four year journey on this and do what Dave said, I definitely think that's worth it cuz again, you're getting your foot in the door and you're climbing you're climbing the ladder at that point, the real estate ladder. >> And I don't think the the LA real estate is bad. I think it's excellent.

It's just really expensive. It's just really expensive. I mean, it's that simple, you know? >> For sure.

And and also like my career is here and I could see like a lot of positive career growth like in this area. Yeah.

>> Yeah, it's practical to stay for a while. >> It might not be your 10year dream career, though.

>> Yeah. >> You know, it might be. It's okay if it is. And if you got a lot of growth and you know, that's the other thing. If your career continues to hockey stick, I mean, dad gum, dude, you're 24, you're killing it at 200 grand. That's amazing.

>> Yeah. >> You're stud. Okay. So, I mean, what if you went to 300 and then 400? Well, these numbers all start to change real fast, >> very quickly. That's right. >> So, I don't I don't know what your comp schedule is or what this thing looks like on your career, but >> you're an impressive young dude. I know that. >> I got to believe he's making more in three to four years from now. >> I think he is. And I think also that you've done a very dispassionate, logical,

there's no shaking your fist at the sky.

>> He's looking at it for what it is. >> I'm mad. This is not fair. There's nothing none of that tone in what you're doing, which is the the first clue that you're actually going to make it probably. >> Yeah. He was not very emotional.

>> No, he's not. But there's no there's no like this isn't fair. It's like, you know, we get that a lot, you know. It's like But I understand it's not fair, but I can't you know, your feelings don't >> The math your math doesn't care about your feelings, you know. So that that's the thing. So I I think you're sharp young dude. I think you're going to get there. Um, and I would just sit right

I'd sit tight, start saving some money and just monitor your career and monitor the market and save like a crazy man and get your foot in the door. >> And what you said just then is so so true because yeah, he wasn't he wasn't emotional. He wasn't whining. But a lot of people they do they look at the numbers and it feels overwhelming to them. So they don't even start, Dave.

But if you just start putting aside >> or worse, they ignore the math and go buy something that crushes >> even worse. >> Crushes them >> even worse >> because it's just not fair.

Home ownership is not reachable with reasonable. Ramsay's not right. Not reasonable. Oh crap. It ain't got anything to do with Ramsay. >> Just start. >> You know, it's got to do with you.

>> I've already got my house. It's not to do with me. It's got something to do with you. >> So, what are you going to do? Are you going to crush yourself because you had a little temper fit on the candy aisle and buy something you can't afford? That that drives me nuts. Please don't do that. >> He's the opposite end of the spectrum. This young stud is he's got it going on now. Like this guy, he's going to win.

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

Mike's in San Diego. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Music] Mike,

I didn't push the button. Is that what you're saying? All right. I didn't push the button. Thank you. >> Goodness. You'd think I know how to do this by now after 40 years. Hey, Mike.

How are you? >> Hey, I'm I'm doing great. How are you?

>> Well, I'm kind of challenged right now, but other than that, what's up?

>> Well, um I had a question kind of honestly not kind of similar to the guy before, but um I'm 25 years old. Um I

live in San Diego. Also work a job in software sales. And about 18 months ago,

I started a side hustle that's kind of taken off a bit. And I'm really kind of looking for some guidance, I guess, from an entrepreneurial perspective on like

when I should maybe consider doing that full-time versus um trying to rack up as

much income as I can. >> Good for you. So, what's it doing? How much you're making on the side hustle?

>> So, I started it in summer 2024.

>> Mhm. >> Didn't really do much the first six months. Maybe like 5,000 in profit.

>> Mhm. >> Uh last year we did 68,000 in profit.

And then this year I think we'll do about 100,000 maybe 120.

>> What do you make at your day job?

>> Um about 175. I'm soft.

>> Thank you. I'm in software sales. So some years it's 150, some years it's 200. >> Yeah. >> It can just vary. >> Yeah. And you're So you're 25 and between the two you're making 300 grand.

You're killing it, man.

>> Proud of you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So how much time does the side hustle take?

>> That's the thing. like it takes me probably I want to say 20 to 30 hours a week. My average day kind of looks like working on the business maybe from about 5 to 8:00 p.m. I'm fortunate enough to where I work remotely to where Yeah.

>> Um I can just kind of log off and start working on that.

>> Are you married?

>> I'm engaged. >> Okay. All right. Wow.

>> Yeah. >> It's kind of ideal right now. I mean, you're just stacking cash.

>> Yeah, pretty much. I've been able to sock a good amount of money away.

>> Yeah. >> If if you worked double the hours, would you make double the money? Is it that cut and dry?

>> Um not not exactly. So the the business is very >> um online focused like it's it's very dependent on Facebook actually.

>> So um essentially >> what do you think the shelf life of the new business is? How long you think it's going to last before some platform takes you out or a shift a shift in technology

or something? Yeah, that's a good question. Honestly, I I'm pretty optimistic about Facebook and the way they're kind of investing.

I would say that I mean conservatively

10 or 15 years, but um you know, who knows, right? Like Google >> I'm 100% 100% sure that Google and Facebook are

going to do one thing. Take care of Google and Facebook, >> right? >> And they don't give a crap about you. I can promise you. Okay? So, you need to be defensive about your platform usage

and don't think that they're on your team, okay? Because u about the time you

get something figured out, they turn it and screw you. I mean, we've been playing with these guys for 15 years since they started. I mean, I've been doing from the time back when SEO was a thing, you know, and not even exist anymore. So, um you know, whatever by by the time you get it figured out, they figure out a way to monetize everything you've been doing and then they flip it on you.

So, I'm not cynical. I'm just telling you, you need to be realistic about your platform life uh blood. And it ain't 15 years. I'm not going to There's no way.

Not without you iterating substantially. Now, it doesn't mean you're going out of business, but you're not going to do it the way you're doing it, >> but probably 36 months and then they're going to change something. So, okay, cool. That's still awesome, man.

Uh get off get off my entrepreneurial cynicism, but the uh um >> All right. Uh D.

>> No, I just feel that

if I had more time and energy to put into the business, I could scale it um nonlinearly, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> And I believe I believe you. I think you're right. >> We have a lot of systems in place that kind of run the business itself, but it is it is a volume game.

>> Yeah, sure. Um, so I think with more time and attention I could get it to a point to where it's making more. Um, >> then you'll hit the point of diminishing returns curve on their time as well. But I do think you can make what I think you could easily make I don't even know what you're doing.

Okay. But it just sounds like the trend line on this. You could make what you're making now if you went full-time. >> Which I'm just curious on where your passion lies.

Did you start the side hustle out of money or I just really like this field. I want to see if I can make uh do something in it and possibly make some money.

>> Um, it's it's just honestly like a passion thing. Like it's it's actually adjacent to my career. So, I'm actually doing the thing that a lot of my clients are doing >> in my uh career side. And honestly, I just kind of listen to them talk about what they were doing right and what they were doing wrong and it kind of inspired me to do my own version of it.

>> So, if you there's no ethical breach in that at all. >> No, no. It's it's completely independent from what they're doing. It's It's just a variation of it.

>> I got you. Just best practices.

Okay. >> Pretty much. Yeah. So, I mean, it kind of sounds like to you like I mean, it would be my dream to really be able to do it full-time, but awesome.

>> I definitely understand. >> When are you when are you getting married? >> Uh, next year. Like maybe 13, 14 months.

>> What's she make?

Um, she is actually I talked her into

helping me with the business about six months ago, which is why we saw um such strong growth. >> Hm. And so is she doing that full-time?

>> Yeah. >> Oh, interesting.

>> Yeah. So, she was working as a like a web designer. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, and I told her she wasn't she was doing it like contract freelance work.

Wasn't enjoying it too much. And I said, "Hey, I'm really time locked here with

uh with my job, but I really believe in this and I think you have the skill." >> What could you hire someone to do what you're thinking about doing? What would it cost you in addition to her?

>> I'm not sure. I think that I've had experiences hiring people on Fiverr where they'll kind of take what you're doing and try to compete against you with it. >> Um I'm not sure we have the capital to go out and hire somebody like W2. Um

>> yeah, you do. You got 100 grand.

>> Well, I was going to say you paid yourself that. Did you pay her anything or that's part of the 100 grand?

>> Yeah. So, right now we're I'm basically splitting it. So, she's getting 50 and then I pay myself 50 and kind of run the expenses out of that. >> All right. Um, so I love where you are.

I love what you're doing. I love that you're thinking about it logically. Um, I think you guys are a power couple. So, you're not there's not a screw up.

There's no uh no no uh check the box in the stupid column here. None of that's going to happen. Okay. It's only a question of what you want to do and what is best. All right. So, one idea that

popped into my head, if I were sitting exactly where you are, and I'm very entrepreneurial and I'd rather work for myself than anybody cuz I'm too contrary to work for somebody. So, um, one idea

that popped in my head is let's just

burn the midnight oil until we get married. >> I love that idea. and just crank this thing and see how high a stack of cash.

Let's fill a bedroom full of cash over there. Okay? >> Mhm. >> Just make some money. Okay? And during

that time, you can start to see what some of the trend lines are in the platforms you're using and if your prediction or my cynicism, which one is more accurate? Um, and and and you know,

if you do that and you turn it on, you come back from the honeymoon and you just made 200 grand on this thing and you want to punt the day job and go on, then go on. >> And if the whole thing crashes in two or three years, you got a bedroom full of money and you made some money and you could go do it again. You go do something else because there's something you The beautiful thing about this is you can land like a cat on carpet when you're done because you've got the skills.

>> Yeah. Honestly, I love that idea. I've really been going back and forth between like I got a good job, I want to keep it. People tell me like it's a dream job, but also like I have on the other end. >> I mean, you know how to do that job.

>> It'll be waiting there if you ever want to go back to it. And you're at a great time of life where you can do exactly what Dave said. You're not married yet.

You guys are in that time of adventure where it's like, you want to go? I want to go. Let's go do it. >> Let's let's scramble here. >> We'll eat peanut butter and jelly. Yeah. Like we'll do whatever we need. >> DZ. Let's make hay while the sun shines, baby. you know, and let and you know, after the marriage, quit if you if you make a bunch of money, >> you know, I mean, you got to be making about what you're making or more, >> but if you are, then quit.

>> The downside of both of you doing this is if it goes sideways, your whole freaking deal goes sideways.

>> Your lack of diversification on your income base is a little scary, but it's okay. I think you got the margin to handle all of it, and I think you're on top of it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Logan is with us in Louisville. Hi, Logan. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I am 26 years old and I bought my

first house last May whenever I was 25

years old. And I'm kind of realizing that I probably made a very big mistake

because I bought it on a 30-year uh mortgage uh with 5% down at 6 and 12%

interest. And I'm wondering what I should do.

>> Okay. Is the home affordable?

>> It is. Um it was $220,000

>> and uh the mortgage is 1623 a month.

>> And what's your household income? Uh, so I make $65,000 a year uh last year and I

I work at a major auto factory in Louisville. >> Sure. >> And um I will be eventually making $100,000 a year in about a year and a half or two years or so according to our union contract.

>> Uh and so I'm basically one I never heard. >> No sir. I do live with my girlfriend however. >> Okay. um because she had to drop out of

college and um her parents are aren't

really uh supporting her financially and she didn't really have another option other than she had to e either move in with me or it was be homeless. So, uh I went ahead and moved her in and so she has about $10,000 in student loan debt and then I additionally have about $12,000 on an auto loan.

>> Okay. Well, you there's no we she has her life, you have your life. you're not married and so you're you have $12,000 in student loan, you have $12,000 car payment and you have a house payment that is tight right now. Okay. So, I I

don't I don't think I would do anything. I think I sit right there. Um what I would do is as your income goes up and you need to clear this car debt off when those two things happen and these interest rates continue to go down, I would just refinance. And when you refinance, put it on a 15.

>> Okay? But, you know, you're going to get down sub fives probably this spring.

>> Okay.

So, refinance to the 15.

>> When when you can afford it. I don't I don't know when your income's going to go up. You can't afford it right now.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. So, when do you think you're going to be, you know, move making the move from 60 towards 100?

>> Uh, so we go up on a yearly basis. I'll be getting about a 10% raise in May.

>> Okay. It's probably going to be the following May before you start talking about refinancing. You're probably you're probably in coast mode.

>> Okay. And then I actually have a lot of uh uh retire in my retirement account and then I've got some in an index fund that's not in a retirement account.

>> Pay off your car today. >> Question. >> What's in the index fund?

>> Uh almost 14,000.

>> Pay off your car. Pay off your car today. >> Pay off the truck completely. >> Yes. Today.

>> Okay. Got it. I was thinking you were going to say that. Yeah.

And then let's build our emergency fund. And as far as the house, we're going to sit with the 30 and we're going to sit with the 6 1/2 until the rates drop and your income comes up and you can afford to refinance. And it's not going to kill you. We're talking about 18 24 months here.

And you know, you'll be okay. It, like you said, it isn't what I would have signed you up for, but you're there now. And there's no there's no panic in these numbers.

It's just a a good lesson learned for next time you want to make a large purchase to wait till you're in a better position. >> And don't be combining finances with

girlfriends only with wives.

>> Yes. Uh yes. I'm not even going to get into that. There were some things there.

>> Yes, there was some things there. Some things there. Britain is in San Antonio.

Hi Britain. How are you?

>> Howdy, sir. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

So, I um I'm in a little bit of like a

family pickle. I I have a brokerage

account that was gifted to me for college graduation that has about 13,000 in it. >> Um but based off the previous gentleman,

you just told him to liquidate stuff and pay off the car today. I have a $7,000 car loan um for my wife's car. I have a

$25,000 car loan for my truck. And I

have about 40k in student loans putting us at about what's that 70 75k cumulative debt. >> Yep. >> Um and my gross income is about 100k a year. >> Um my wife and I have been married four years. We got a 2-year-old and we got a baby in March. >> Y'all are normal.

>> So >> And you figured out normal is not fun.

>> Yeah. >> No, I'm I'm tired of thinking, "Oh yeah,

I make 100 grand a year and ago >> and I'm broke." Yeah. >> Right. Right. Yeah.

>> So, >> yeah. >> So, you got your first piece of advice, which is to liquidate uh that non-retirement savings. That gets you the 13,000. So, her car is paid off and you're able to put a little onto the truck. Um, what does she drive? I'm just curious.

>> She drives a 2019 Jetta. Um, that's I

don't know, probably got 78,000 miles on it. It's in really, really good shape.

>> What about your truck? What how good a shape is that in?

>> Uh, it's in really good shape. It's a 24

Silverado I bought with 2500 miles on it. Um, with a little gift from her grandpa to >> really knock down my payment. So, I only pay 500 bucks a month for it.

>> Only 500 bucks.

>> Yeah, >> that's a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. For I thought it was great for basically a brand new truck, but I mean, hindsight's 2020.

>> Um, but I I drive a lot for work, so I've depreciated. Yeah, I've got I put on like >> means you're destroying the value of a brand new truck. >> You are. Listen, you're going to have to put the pedal to the metal on this debt.

Um I want you have a great income, so that's good. But what's going to get you is this these 40,000 of student loans.

It's easy to let that sit around and collect dust. But this is the time, you

know, to to kick it up into high gear. I want you and your wife to get into every dollar. Have you have you jumped in there yet? I have not jumped into every dollar, but I um we use uh like Rocket Money and we

sat down and did our financial planning for the year. >> Well, there's the problem right there.

>> I'm playing with you, but I'm going to give you a budgeting app that's actually going to help you and it's not going to sell you debt products along the way.

So, Christian will pick up and make sure that you get every dollar. And I mean it. I'm not just, you know, trying to be funny towards a competitor. I'm saying that if you go into every dollar, their goal is to get you out of debt.

>> Yes, ma'am. the other budget you're using, that's not their goal. Their goal is just to keep you around as a customer. Later, they can sell you debt.

We want to get you out and therefore in the app, it's going to ask you things about your life and you're going to be able to plug that in and then it's going to walk with you. You called into us to talk to us for a hot two two or three minutes. It's going to give you the advice we would give you step by step along the way so that you stay focused and actually get this done.

>> Very good. Bobby is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Bobby. What's up?

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Great man. How can we help?

>> Um, I have a weird question I haven't heard before on your show. I have a minor son. Um, he received a $15,000

settlement from an accident he was in.

>> And I'm court ordered to put it into a

federally insured bank until he reaches maturity. >> Y, >> which is in 12 years.

>> And I'm struggling to pick where to put it because returns are trash. Yep. And

>> which means the court is stupid >> and the court generally is stupid. It's what happens when lawyers do financial planning. >> Lawyers that become judges that are stupid. Did I mention this is stupid?

But you're still court ordered.

>> You're court ordered. It's aggravating as crud. >> Um yeah, you you you can't do what you should do with it, which is put it in a decent growth stock mutual fund. >> That's terrible. >> You can't do it. So you're going to be in a high yield. You're going to be a high yield savings account at your local credit union or bank that's got federal insurance and you're barely going to keep up with inflation.

>> Exactly. I mean, everything I'm seeing is like one less than 1%.

>> Oh, no, no, no. You can get three right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You get some high yield savings up around two, two and a half or three, >> but um >> it's still a it's crime. It's a crime.

>> It's still a crime. It's still a crime, but um I mean the whole thing was this kid got hurt and somebody's trying to take care of him here and then the judge is an idiot. So, yeah.

>> Well, I mean, the good thing is he currently have we have some sizable money for him and our daughter currently, but it would be really nice to add this to it. >> Yeah, I would. >> Is there a I'm just asking, is there a way that you could get a a lawyer in order to to change that? >> Yeah, but I'm not sure. I mean, if if you went from two to >> 10 or 2 to 12, okay, you make 10%, you

make 1,500 bucks, I won't pay the lawyer. >> So, it's not worth it. It's just the stupid law. I mean, it's not even the law. It's just a judge that doesn't know what the crap they're doing.

>> They don't They thought you were They thought you were going to take it to Vegas and put it on red, >> you know. >> Let it run. >> Yeah. Run it. Run it. That's what they thought. But, you know, Nah, that's sad.

Yeah. You're just going to have some money parked there and kids going to have 15 grand. Was not going to grow much.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.comrealestate.

[Music]

Proverbs 14:15 says, "The simple believe

anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps." Albert Einstein said, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we use to create them." >> There we go. Anthony is in Orlando. Hi, Anthony. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All righty. So, I came to ask you about a financial decision I'm going to make.

So, me and my fiance um are having a

baby together, and the baby comes here in 2 months, and she currently has a car payment that

is 26

grand.

And um it's roughly $800 or more a month. O

>> and um we're deciding whether to try to

refinance it and me I looked it up and everything and looked into it a little bit more and it said she says she owes around only 17 for the car and then the rest is mainly like dealership fees and

coverages and stuff. And um I was

wondering if it would be necessarily a good idea to refinance it and then just

attack it and pay it off.

>> Yeah. What do you make, sir?

>> Um I make roughly 30 grand a year.

>> What does she make, sir?

>> Um I'd say maybe like 1820 a year.

>> Okay. All right.

Um, and you you guys are 24.

>> Uh, 23. Yes, sir. >> 23. Close. Okay.

Um, all right. Can Can I love you enough to tell you the whole thing? Will you allow me to do that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. If I were your age or you were my

son who's 20 who's older than 23

um now um and you were to ask me this

question um I here's what I would tell you to do okay in detail and there's a

lot of reasons for this and I'll give you the reasons too okay but the first thing I would do is get married by Friday >> okay because you don't need to be doing financial transactions and babies with people you're not married to it does not lead to prosperity and it does not lead to a wonderful life.

The data on this there's piles of

research that show that that this that

this is a really really good suggestion.

Okay. So, so I'm meddling in your

business. Okay. I want you to get things in the right order from this point forward. >> So, get married by Friday and then sell the car.

You can't afford the car.

You guys don't have any money. You don't make much money. And you have a brand new baby coming. And you're so broke you can't see with an $800 payment.

>> Yeah. >> It's killing you, isn't it, man?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. You got to sell this car. So, call

or have her call and get the payoff number on the car. or what it takes to pay it off today and then find out what

the um Kelly Blue Book value of the car is. And I hope you can sell it for enough to get out of it. I hope you're not I hope she's not upside down in it.

And for that matter, since you're her new husband by Friday, >> hope you're not upside down in it >> cuz you're going to be joining this party. But you guys got to this thing is a weight around your neck during what should be with a baby on the way in a new marriage, the happiest time of your life. This car is a nightmare.

And there's no refinancing. It doesn't get rid of it. It's got to go away. And

then get you the cheapest something that you can drive that'll run and start your life off like broke people like I did and Sharon did and Jade did and Sam did

>> and most of the people listening did. Um that's where that song, we ain't got money, honey, but we got love. That's where that comes from. Okay. And um you

know and so you know you start with that and then you start working on your careers and both of you get your incomes up because both of you's job sucks

>> and let's get our incomes moving >> and and then we start talking about buying a little better car, a little better car, but we're doing this as a couple with a new baby. That's a wonderful gift >> and let let's let's move forward. Um and

those are the things that will cause you prosperity.

Um the the there is a there's a whole piece of literature out there folks, a whole piece of research out there that is done multiple times in multiple different veins that talks about what's called the marriage advantage.

And um for instance, males live 7 to n

years longer that are married than unmarried males. Just an advantage.

females live on average five years longer that are married. So that that's

the physical one of the physical aspects of it. >> People survive cancer at a 20% higher

rate that are married.

Isn't that weird?

>> Okay, there's all kinds of data out there on this stuff. The net worth of someone in their mid30s at 35 years old, and this is not me talking to you, Anthony, this is me talking to everybody out there. The net worth of someone in their mid30s right now is 10 to 11 times

higher for a married male than an

unmarried male at 35 years old. That's

at 35 years old.

>> That's interesting. Crazy interesting.

>> And it's got to do with a lot of different factors. The, you know, but one of them is is that we're joined and we're committed and we're not got one foot in a boat, one foot on the dock. Mhm.

>> And it changes the dynamic of how you do your career, >> of how you do relationships, of how you do money, >> and it changes the whole thing. And so >> that makes sense. >> You're always going to get that at Ramsay, by the way. We're always going to be proponents.

>> We're going to tell you every time cuz we love you to get married.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot of research out about uh the quality of your relationships and how they affect your longevity, uh how they affect your mental health. It only makes sense that it would affect your money in a similar way. >> Absolutely. It it affects it dramatically. Affects your income.

>> Absolutely. >> Oh man. The the the amount of money that a lady makes more that is married in her

30s than an unmarried lady. Really wild.

>> That's very interesting. >> And the the interesting dynamic of that is is that sometimes the unmarried ladies saying, "I want to be independent." >> Isn't it? I mean, you know, and yet the and it ends up on average >> making considerably less >> on average. >> So, I don't I don't know exactly what that is. And the guys make more, too, by the way. >> It's not it's not uh u but it's just it's a dynamic in our culture and the way people's um neurosystems work and

the way our relationships work and then it plays out in the math.

>> That's what it comes down to. So, that would be my advice to you, sir. um if

you since you allowed me to love you and be direct, I'd be married by Friday. I'd get this car on the market and get it sold and both of you look for better jobs. And uh let's get you let's get you up there where you're making a little bit more than 40 or $50,000 a year between the two of you. >> Below average household income >> and a baby on the way.

So let let's get this thing moving, buddy. You can do this. You're not a dumb guy. You can do it.

And you're not afraid of hard work either. So you can do this. And you called a show like this. So, I know you can do it.

I mean, >> they're just getting started.

>> Yeah, absolutely. They can do this. And so, there's great hope. Um, and guess

what? If you've if you've done anything out there that you wished you hadn't done, bought a house, bought a car, >> um, you know, whatever it is you wish you hadn't done. You know, a lot of it can be undone. >> Yeah. >> Or a lot of it can be survived. Just don't keep repeating it. So, I I've about decided at my age, since I'm old now, that uh people say, "Well, you're wise." is what I'm saying. Yeah. You know where wisdom comes from? Bad judgment.

>> Yes. >> You know, and doing stupid doing stupid butt stuff. And I The only thing I have done right is I seldom do the same stupid thing. >> I I find new ones to do, >> but I seldom do the same stupid thing.

And if you get a whole bunch of stupid things in your past that you never do again, then people start calling you wise. >> Yeah. >> And so that that's really what it comes down to. A whole bunch of things I avoid doing now that all of a sudden it makes you look like you're smart.

>> It's a success thing. You're standing on a pile of failures. >> Exactly. It's exactly what it is.

Good qu good good point. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

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## 174. The Payment Mentality Is Keeping You Broke | April 14, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

And I am Rachel Cruze [music] hosting at this hour with my good friends and co-host of SmartMoney Happy Hour, George Kamel. And we are taking your [music] calls live at 888-825-5225.

[music] So, give us a call.

All right, kicking us off this hour in Austin, Texas, we have Tracy on the line. Hi, Tracy.

Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

Um so, long story short, we've had some

um financial losses that were out of our control. You know, our income has gone down, our costs have gone up. Um we've

blown through all of our savings trying to, you know, stay afloat. Uh went to credit cards to um you know, for all of our business business expenses, our household expenses, all of those things. Um and we're we're still behind, borrowing from family, all of the things. Um right now, we are running at about a $5,000 deficit a month even uh you know, all

things considered. And we're I'm just trying to figure out, you know, do we

you know, at what point do you give up and file bankruptcy? You know, do we keep trying to dig out of this? Like, what is the smartest path forward with everything that's happened? So, >> What do you guys make? What are you bringing in a month? Um we It's It's variable. So, it's about

um 12 to to 17, uh but 250 a year on

average. Okay, and you're and you are So, you guys make $250,000 a month or I'm sorry, I'm sorry, a year? Yes. And and you're still behind $5,000

a month. What are you guys spending your money on? Well, um a lot of it is going toward credit cards. So, about $4,300 a month is

credit cards and fees. Unfortunately, a bunch of our cards are, you know, 12 to

30% interest. So, I've reached out to them um for their hardship programs and tried to get the interest down so that we're able to tackle more of the debt.

What part of this wasn't in your control? You were saying something about how it's not it wasn't in your control.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of our companies that we run, um someone had embezzled money from us um and it took away about

70 or 80% of our income. How much money are we talking? Um they embezzled about 1.6 million um

Oh my gosh. total, yeah. Are they in jail? No. No. Uh the it happened in a big city and they have bigger fish to fry. So, um What do you mean? You didn't press charges?

Uh it's it's it's all

I don't know how much I can say.

Um they're they're working on it um but >> you have an attorney?

Yes. Yes, we've got an attorney that's that's working on it for us um You acted like you're like, "Well, it's it's water under the bridge. We're moving on. Big city, what can you do?" No, we had investors um and it was our investors' money that was in It was a whole situation, but um Okay.

So, it wasn't your money to begin with. You didn't go into debt 1.6 million. No, no, no, no, but um we managed that fund and when the fund disappeared, our income disappeared. Um so, we, you know, we've taken on additional jobs.

um business expenses that we didn't need, you know, sold assets that weren't performing. Um you know, so we're, you know, selling everything that, you know, the like Yeah. the saying? I sell so much the kids think they're next, so >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what other debt do you guys have, Tracy? I'm just trying to figure out where where $15,000 a month is going. How much is your How much is your mortgage? Um the mortgage is 5,500.

Um we did take out some of our equity to try to pay down um pay down our assets, so or our our jet.

So um the the home is worth about 700

and we owe about 550 on the on the mortgage, so. Okay.

>> Um so was that a HELOC you took out or a home equity loan?

>> Yeah, we refinanced. Um and then we've got about 3 to 5,000 dollars a month that's going out in expenses for um the businesses that we run out of our home. So we've got um you know, the

4,300 in in debt service, um you know,

13 to 14,000 dollars in monthly expenses, kids in college, you know, all of all of those things, um you know, tuition and rent, and then our business expenses. So it comes out to about 20, 000 dollars a month. >> your business expenses, Tracy, not within side the business? Why is that coming out of your your income?

Well, it it it's kind of all in one lump now, like

because we're just trying to keep everything um current, so I like I'm not

even taking a a paycheck >> and you have a personal checking account and you're paying business expenses from the business checking? Yes, everything's coming from the business account. I'm not taking a a paycheck from >> three to 5,000 on business expenses is coming out of a business account that has nothing to do with the 12,000 you're bringing home every month, correct?

Sure. Okay. I mean I yeah, and I would separate it. Okay, so then you got kids in college. Yes. Um are they working?

Um no, having good number >> Talk directly in your phone, Tracy. We're having a hard time hearing you. Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. Um they've uh we've got scholarships and grants. Um so there's not a lot that's coming out.

It's about $1,700 a month left over in in tuitions and fees, but they are applying for scholarships like it is their full-time job.

>> Okay. And what's the total amount of debt you guys carry outside of your mortgage? Um so the total the total debt we have

some unpaid taxes. So it's hovering at

about $270,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> the business?

Um yeah, those are uh business >> that out. What what is just So just credit cards just credit card is 152.

Um we owe we owe family 30.

Um and then we owe 88 in back taxes. Um

we had an employee that said she was filing them and she did not. So we've had some some things pile up. So we're just trying to doggy paddle through and and figure it out.

>> key's going to be just debt snowballing this, listing it all out, smallest to largest balance, and attacking the smallest one with a vengeance, and just keeping up with minimum payments on the rest. But the income needs to go up and expenses need to continue to go down even just to work the same plan. >> Tracy, the the way to do it and and it's going to be harsh, but you guys have to make a list of everything and when the money runs out, the money runs out and we stop. We do not continue to borrow from on credit cards.

We don't continue to borrow from family.

utilities, transportation, you get your four walls, you pay your insurance, all right. Everything else below is a want. Like kids in college, sorry kids, mom and dad are broke. We're on the we're on the brink of bankruptcy.

We can't keep paying your rent. Like we're done we're we mathematically we can't keep up our lifestyle. And I think there has you you and your husband you'll you guys have to come to a really hard reality of that we we can't keep

doing this. And I know that's why you're calling us, but like that that has to seep so far down that the sacrifice is so deep. Like, you know, do you guys have an anything out on the cars at all or are those paid off?

They're all They're all Sorry, you broke up again, Tracy.

Oh, sorry. No, um cars are paid for. We drive old cars. We even tried to sell them um and see if we could put you know through a >> the the another issue is this mortgage is huge compared to what your take-home pay is now, which is 12 grand.

It's almost half your take-home pay just in this new mortgage. So, you might need to look into selling the house and downsizing if you can't solve this within 6 months. >> Yeah, cuz you asked about you know, when do you just file bankruptcy? Well, you you sell everything including the house to avoid a bankruptcy.

You know, even cash you I I don't want you to right now cuz we don't have enough time to dig into the numbers of like a 401k. You do all of that to avoid [music] a bankruptcy, but um The IRS goes to the top. That's the first thing in your debt snowball right now is those back taxes. And Tracy, I heard a lot of well, this person well, it was their fault.

At some point, we got to look in the mirror and go, "I'm responsible.

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>> [music]

>> Up next, we have Sally [music] in Los Angeles. Hi, Sally. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Um, big picture, I recently sold my house and I was able to um get about

300,000 um kind of tax-free cuz it was the I didn't

have to qualify to do any capital gains on it because I lived in it in past couple years and whatnot. And um now I'm

sitting on this little nest egg of mine and I keep I've invested like the first 50,000 into stock and um there's

obviously some fluctuations on a day-to-day basis based on you know what the President of the United States sometimes also tweets, things change, and whatnot. What do you mean, Sally? WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> [laughter] >> WHAT AM I SUPPOSED to I just like I'm like I want to move, I but I feel like I'm almost playing like hopscotch here where I'm like not now. So, can I go now? And I'm like I right now it's just sitting there and I'm like I'm thrilled I have it, but I also just don't want to be irresponsible. Are you needing this money anytime soon or were you looking at this just to put away for years down the road?

I'm looking to put it away. I think that is the best solution for me.

My husband and I are doing fine. Pretty much he's covering all the current expenses. We have toddler. We're We're doing it and I don't We don't have any debt or anything along those lines.

I don't feel like I can purchase anything with what I have in our current area. It's a high cost of living area, so that's not really an option either.

It can be put away for a moment and but

I'd also like to maximize some of my earning possibilities for it as well.

For sure. So, do you guys own a home?

Well, he owns a home that we don't currently live in. He's renting it out.

I also was renting out my old house before I sold it. Honestly, I sold it cuz I was like, I hate being a landlord.

This is not the business for me.

>> Sure. So, much anxiety. Yeah. Um so, we

have homes. Um we have, you know, the

What is it? The So, we have the deductions from like being home owners.

We also have the deductions from being parents. And so, um in this specific

area, it's quite expensive. So, it's like I don't know if my little nugget would really make much of a dent.

Well, I think eventually you guys need to talk about home ownership. So, whether that's you guys moving back into maybe the home that he owns that Are you guys You guys are married?

Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, home ownership needs to be a a long-term goal for you guys. And I know that you're in an expensive area, but for your, you

know, financial future ongoing, home ownership will be the cheapest route because rent will just continue to go up, right? So, So, letting that be a Yeah. So, letting that be a goal, which this money could be used for. And I understand you're saying not right now, which is totally fine.

So, we always say investing, um you want to give it around a 4-year kind of benchmark. So, to give it 4 years to do the up and down, and in that time there'll be an election. Like right, all of that, right? So, you think about the time frame um that kind of feels good to to ride out the highs and lows if you're going to use this money down the road.

Uh so, if you're going to use it less than five than four 4 to 5 years, I would not invest it. But, if you think you're going to keep it in somewhere for 4 to 5 years, then yes, investing still for me would be the answer because we're not looking at what you're saying, a 30-day span, right? If you looked at the last 30 days, yeah, it looks insane. But, that's not always the case.

In fact, last year the market was what?

>> 20% last year, which is just >> Exactly. That's the thing. I don't want to even do like a high interest like savings account. But, I'm like, I just feel like that's like money left on the table and not getting any of that growth.

>> that's why the investing has a long-term mind You have to have a long-term mindset. And so, right now actually, which George you talk about this in your book Breaking Free from Broke, when you buy low, which is what it is, you know, right now with the volatility, you're actually going to get to buy more shares, if you will. So, as everything goes up, you kind of have more eggs in your basket, if you will, when the market does go up cuz over the course of you know, the trajectory of the of what the stock market has done since its inception, like it it does go up.

The American economy overall goes up. So, that just means you actually are going to be making more down the road if you buy now low. But, that's kind of an investor's mindset, George. >> Yeah, I I always like to say time in the market beats timing the market.

And only God knows what's going to happen, right? And so, it's just easier to not look at it and just know I'm going to block this money away and just let it ride and keep adding to it. And then 4 or 5 years from now, you're going to look up and there could be 5 600 grand in there. And now, that's a serious down payment Even with the prices in LA 5 years from now.

And so, I would make it a goal and say, "You know what?

Yeah, I like that. >> So, what is it invested in? Cuz you said, "I'm invested in stocks." And that scared me. Do you mean single stocks or like an index fund? No, index. Um and

honestly, I don't feel like the most fluid with having this conversation on that topic. I right now just have like um I took 50,000 of that 300, and it's

in like VOO. Sure. Um and then the rest is just like sitting there.

Yeah. You can invest the rest in there, and let it ride and keep adding to it every single month. Make it a goal. Hey, we're going to add $3,000 a month to this.

That's 36 grand a year growing for us with compound growth. And you can do some projections and see that 5, 6, 7 years from now, it's probably going to be closer to 700 grand if you do it this way. And then when you have enough to where you can go, "All right, we can take out a mortgage.

Let's go ahead and pull the trigger and get this house." And I get it, Sally. I mean, and and when I think about investing personally, I really I look maybe once a year at what's going on because I would give myself a panic attack every time I looked at the market. [laughter] To your point, uh specifically right now. >> when it's down.

Nobody looks when it's up and doing great. >> That's right. And that doesn't hit the news, either, right?

>> Yeah, I mean, the last 2 years have been insane. And then this year not so great, but that's what we're that's what we're seeing in the news. And so, and I get it. Winston I actually had some money in a high-yield savings that we actually talked to you about this, and we pulled some of it and invested it literally, Sally, I think like 32 days ago.

It was like right before everything hit the fan. And Winston and I were like, "Oh, that's such a >> [laughter] >> good to see it go down." Like we And I was like, "This is why I don't This is why I do not look." Cuz most of the stuff, you know, I'm like just The vending machine ate your money.

But then I know I go back to my brain of what I just talked to you through of what I know and I'm like we're not needing this money for you know, couple of years. So like just let it ride and let it do its thing. So that that is what you know, what you would have to do and it would be the smartest thing. I would still do what we did.

Yeah. Again, because I know what's happening, you know. And if you can Sally, I would auto invest it and that way it's out of sight, out of mind. I don't want to see the money.

I want to just leave and go straight to that investment account. I don't want to touch it.

if you will is because what you're investing in is is has has a good track

record, right? What we talk about with index funds or even mutual funds is you are buying, you know, 200 90 to 200 stock in a mutual funds and even with some of the index funds, you know, it's the S&P 500 in general. So >> companies based on market cap.

>> that's why you can kind of not have to look at it and feel like you have to manage it because it's just doing what the economy's going to do, right? It just kind of rides that wave versus stressing about Apple or Tesla or whatever, right? If you're trying to manage single stocks and all of it. So that's kind of the beauty of that diversification method um that index funds or mutual funds give you gives you is because there's there's a lot of kind of safety in it cuz if it all if it all hits, right, down and it and it all kind of falls out uh then the American economy's done done so.

If every company in America goes bankrupt, we're like, all right, this is the end. That's when hoarder Rachel >> what's helpful for me Sally is when you're looking at the line graph of like returns on whatever investment you have, I never look at it less than a 3-year.

Because if you look at it on a 1-week, a 1-month, you're freaking out, even 1-year. But when you look at 3-years, 5-years, 10-years, the further back you go with the more up into the right it goes. And so that's just a good perspective to have that you are investing for the long term. It doesn't matter if you on paper lost $20,000 cuz

you didn't. You didn't sell. You hung on to it. >> Yeah. So, keep keep up the ride.

>> I needed this pep talk to like get out of my way cuz I've never I don't come from money. I've never I'm thrilled that I'm here today now having this opportunity and I'm like oh, don't mess it up. Yes. [laughter] Yes.

>> great. You're doing better than you think. >> You know, and that caution, that's a good spirit to have. I mean, honestly, to really research, yes, research [music] and understand and you have to feel good about it.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Tax season is upon us, so to get a free checklist and guide that will help you file, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

[music] All right, let's head to Greenville, and we have John on the line. Hi, John.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you guys doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Uh yes. Uh me and my wife are newlyweds, got married last year, and having a little

bit of a disagreement on whether we should take a vacation this year.

She's wanting to take a vacation, and I'm thinking that we should probably just try to get a little bit more financially ahead to invest our retirement, and save up for a house, and just wanted to call to get a fresh perspective. Okay, so John, you're the money responsible guy, and your wife is fun.

Rachel relates to her.

>> [laughter] >> It sounds like you're already losing the battle, John.

She's ready to spend and have fun, and you're like, we need to think about retirement.

Which is good and responsible. She She says I'm not trying to paint my wife in a bad light. >> Oh, no, I'm joking. I'm joking.

No, I'm going to be probably more on your wife's team in the call. That's what I'm saying >> you guys have debt?

Uh we do not have debt. Do you have savings right now for like your emergency fund?

Uh yes, we do. We have about uh 23 grand

in the savings account and then about 45,000 in a brokerage. Wow. Okay, and

are you investing 15% of the household income right now into retirement accounts? Uh yes, we have about uh 54,000 in

retirement. And how old are you guys?

Uh just turned 24. Go on the freaking vacation, man. John. What do you mean you got to catch up? You're ahead of like 99.9% of America.

>> How much do you guys make a year?

Uh 115.

Okay. How much is this vacation going to cost?

I don't know. Probably um probably about three grand.

Okay. If I told you, "Hey John, when you retire, you could either have 9.85

million or 9.9 million." Would you say, "Yeah, I'm I'm willing to take the 9.85. That's fine."

Uh yeah, I would probably be okay with that. >> Yeah. That's what we're talking about here. You guys are going to be multi-multi-multimillionaires if you keep living this way, but you're going to have a miserable marriage if you keep living the way you're wanting [laughter] to live.

Which is well, that money is an opportunity cost. But and you're talking to the nerd of all nerds. >> to say, you got George. >> to go on the trip.

Let's just spend Yeah, if you guys if you guys seriously had some hey, we got a lot of debt that we're walking into this marriage with, we got to clean this up.

You went on the honeymoon, let's take a pause on vacations till we got our mess cleaned up, but there's no mess here.

You guys are doing everything by the book, you got plenty of money. You're not going to stop investing to save up for the trip, right?

No, no. I think I just get nervous because I've been really trying to save up for a down payment for a house and everything is just so expensive, so it just makes me nervous, or I'm just a I get in my own head of what could happen or anything like that. Well, do the math. The three grand in vacation is going to cost you maybe a half a month in your house down payment fund.

Right?

Yes. >> I mean, the next paycheck you could fund this vacation.

Okay. Right? >> Okay, that makes me feel a little bit better. >> Yeah, it's not going to delay your your home ownership goals. So, don't let the the fear of well, I'll never be a homeowner mean I'm not going to go on a trip for the next 6 years cuz we got to get a house, we got to get a house. You're so young, you're doing so great.

You guys will own a home before you're 30, and you're going to do it the right way, and it's going to be super peaceful and be a blessing in your life. But, if you don't also learn how to let go and live, you are going to be miserable in that house.

I was afraid you were going to say that.

Tell your wife she won the argument, not that it's a competition, >> but You know what? I think John It's three It's three on one, John. Me, and George, [laughter] and you're one. And as punishment, she gets $500 in fun money. Yes. He kind of let me down.

>> You got to upgrade the hotel room now.

>> Upgrade the hotel room, and she gets more fun money than you feel comfortable with. >> that's Yeah, that's the consequences, John, you know? Okay. Okay, [laughter] that's what I'll have to do. No, it's a good We're hang We're playing around. >> appreciate the the caution um and wanting it, but let me encourage you that our friend Arthur Brooks talks about five things you can do with money, and he said four of them actually can bring you happiness, and one does not.

The one that does not bring you happiness is just buying stuff.

But, one of the one of the things that can buy you happiness out of the four is buying experiences with people you love.

He said that's one of the best >> So, when you spend your money, yes, and you go and have an experience with people you love, um that actually incurs

a level of happiness in your life. So, we are um yep, that's that's uh George and I's marriage advice to you. Enjoy and have the goals, but you guys have them. You are on track, you are good, nothing's going off the rails.

And uh yeah. And I'll be honest, I'm I'm

kind of living vicariously through them because I wish I went on more trips when we were newlyweds. Oh, yeah, now that you're a dad, too. >> Yeah, we got went like one great trip in 2019, and then COVID happened. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> we got at least two good trips in >> It's so true. So true.

>> going to look back and go, man, we got kids now, it's much harder to travel. So when you're newlyweds, I'm like, Amy, you're doing this great. >> And it's three grand. I'm like, go. Go and enjoy. >> debt-free, emergency fund, retirement's kicking, let's go, buddy. Yes, so great.

Well done, John. You guys have done a fabulous job. Fabulous job.

>> beat up on you because you're doing so good. [laughter] >> I was like, your your wife seems like the fun one. He was like, I don't want to paint her in a bad light. I'm like, not here, John. >> me, she's in the best light. >> We like those people. We like her. All right, let's go to Brandon in Columbus.

Hi, Brandon, welcome to the show.

Hey there, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing good. How can we help?

Um so I'm self-employed, make about $50,000 a year. Uh I have about 66,000

in a high-yield savings.

And then aside from a mortgage, I have

about 50 48,000 in debt between a truck,

a garage, and then a loan to finish the garage. And I'm trying to determine if it's best to kind of deplete that savings and pay off some debt, or if there's something else I should be doing with it. You say you make 50 grand a year? Yep. And your truck is $48,000? You have

a loan on it for $48,000? It's It's 28,

Oh, I'm sorry.

That's okay. And then I have a garage that I run the business out of. It's 17,000.

And then a loan to finish the garage, like the drywall and all that good stuff. It was 6,700 is what's left on it. >> I got you. I got you.

Um Okay, so So, yeah, to answer your question quickly, yes, I would. Um I would take

it down to a thousand, which is going to make you sick. You're going to be like, "Oh my gosh." Just know that it's a false safety net, cuz if you lost your job today, guess who doesn't care? Every lender you owe is still going to demand that payment.

And so, you're going to feel a whole lot better and more peaceful taking your account from 66 down to whatever, 10 or 15 grand that you'll rebuild real quickly without those payments in your life.

Okay. That's the simple answer. Are you going to do it though? That's the biggest question on America's mind right now.

Well, that's what I think I've asked for advice from people I know, and nobody could Hey, do whatever you want to do.

And so, I'm like, I got to reach out to somebody else and, you know, third party and see what they say. >> Yeah, cuz the great thing is you'll have around 14,000 still left over in that high-yield account. You won't take it all the way down to zero or to to 1,000.

>> still be able to cover any emergency that came your way in the you know, few months until you build it back up. And then you'll be truly free. >> Are you married, Brandon?

Uh girlfriend, living with, we have a child together. Okay.

Um All right. Yep, so that's Yeah, that's what I would do though is I would go ahead and pay off all the consumer debt and then practice, you know, paying for things that you can afford, right? That we're not going to continue to go into debt because if if you count this 14,000 as an emergency fund, you may want to bulk it up a little bit. Then the beautiful thing is you get to move on to investing into retirement, right?

And start really looking towards the future with this money instead of having to pay for things in the past, which is what debt basically is. Um So, >> This is your never go into debt again insurance plan once you become debt-free with the emergency fund. So, next time you have a project, it's not Well, I got to take out a loan for that. I got to take out a loan for the truck.

You just learn to go, "I'm going to save and pay cash. I'm a guy who doesn't owe money owe money to other people." And well done on on saving 66,000 though, for real, because I mean, by by tomorrow, you could be completely debt free, which is incredible. For a lot of people, you know, they are >> [music] >> having to work extra, you know, cut the expenses, and it's a and it's a year-long process to get out of that debt.

Never too late. Just saying. >> have a kid together.

If she's the [music] one, do it. Seal the deal, Brandon.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Shawn in Indianapolis. Hi, Shawn. Welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel and George. Good afternoon.

Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely.

How can we help today?

So, yeah. Uh we are in the wonderful world of navigating home, auto, and umbrella insurance policy renewals.

And our insurance agent recommended a product that is somewhat new to us and was hoping to see if you have a position on is it something wise to purchase? Uh specifically, it is a standalone wind and hail insurance policy for the home.

And that being a separate policy beyond just the homeowners.

With your roof and all of it. Okay. So, what does that cover that's different than if than if hail if hail damaged your roof? Yeah, if yeah, if hail damaged your roof, you would have [snorts] insurance to help replace the roof.

If you even if you didn't have wind and hail. The the way that it's described is that it would be specific to wind and hail and it would essentially bridge the deductible on the homeowner's policy.

So, something again relatively new and we weren't able to find a whole lot of additional information and we're seeing if you had familiarity with that type of a product and is it a wise purchase?

How much is it extra?

It It's low. I mean, it's less than 230

bucks per for the a For the year.

Um >> But it's essentially just covering the deductible? Is that what you're saying?

It's covering that gap?

It does. Exactly. Okay. Cuz your homeowner's policy does cover it, but you're saying this other policy is basically a deductible insurance policy.

I like the way you said that, George. Right. And and it's it's insurance on insurance, right? So it bridges the gap of an increasing uh deductible on that type of peril, you know, wind or hail damage. Oh, interesting. So how much does it actually cover? What's the dollar amount?

Up to 12,000, which would be the deductible on the homeowner's policy for such a peril. And it costs how much a month? Or a year? Uh well, for the year it's 230, so call it, you know, like maybe 20 bucks a month. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out the break even on this thing.

I mean, you're >> Mhm. you know, for the year, in 10 years you've paid 2,300 bucks for this thing.

And so if something happened in those 10 years and you needed to use more than two grand, you're like, all right, that was a good buy.

So do you guys have them Is this like easy money for you guys to cover this thing at this point in your financial life?

Oh, most definitely. It it It's not a not a burden at all. And in the same stretch, if you had to cover a $10,000 you'd be able to do that with no problem.

We could. That's where I go, hm, I might hang on to my money and just if that happens, I pay it out of the emergency fund and move on with my life. >> Yeah. Yeah, because there's going to be things like this. Oh, it almost feels like an extended warranty feel to a degree of

just >> It's a little bit gimmicky in that they were like, hm, what else can we come up with to to make a little more money?

>> Yes, to kind of just tack on to keep going. Do you know what I mean? And it's like an it's an easy sell, especially in the fear, you know, idea of oh my gosh, in the middle of a hail Yeah. Or windstorm. >> If this was an imminent threat and you didn't have an emergency fund, I might go, hey, this might be a good way to float the gap. For 200 bucks, it's like buying you some peace until you have that money. Mhm. So at this point, you can run some calculations.

I It doesn't seem like a no-brainer buy to me, though. I would have some pause and go, "I don't know if it's worth it." In the same breath, you could burn 230 bucks on a kitchen table and not think about it. >> That's right. Yeah, I think it's I think it's less about the money for you guys, Shawn.

It's probably more of the principal. So, I would say if you did it, just be aware in the future of other things cuz there's all I mean, companies are constantly looking at how they can make money off of people.

So, just yeah, be aware. I'd probably pass. I mean, we don't I don't think I think we would probably just >> Well, then figure out your number cuz some of these policies, they'll say, "Hey, it's 1% deductible on wind and hail." So, if your home is 300 grand, you might pay 3 grand out of pocket.

Well, then it wasn't worth paying 230 every single year for 10, 20 years. But, if it's more than that and your house is worth a million bucks, well, now it's bigger numbers. And so, that's where the things I would start to weigh, um, you know, before you make the decision, but it's a non-fatal decision either way.

All right, let's go to Kim in Richland, Virginia. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Hi, absolutely. How can we help?

I was wanting to get your assistance in potentially getting some money back from my bank. Um, my bank was a is a large bank and they have closed multiple accounts of mine,

um, back in early February.

Um, I can tell you give you the background on that if you like, but they had my accounts closed and are holding my money since February the 2nd. Um, I've pursued numerous routes with them, numerous bank managers, numerous levels within the bank. I've also filed a claim with the OCC and the CFPB

and still have had the no success in getting any of my money back. How much money are we talking?

I I I am not totally sure. I'm thinking

it's around $5,000. The reason being I have literally filed it's um, multiple accounts for people in my family and we had all just filed our return. So, a little bit of tax return money coming back in, maybe a thousand dollars a piece. So, it could be anywhere between say three and six thousand depending on if those credits credits had come back, but I And why did they close them?

Um I essentially I was on 12 different accounts because I had opened accounts with all of my children's checking and savings when they were sort of 15 and initially started working and hadn't been tidy with my finances and taking myself off when they turned 18, 19, 20.

So, I have four kids, eight accounts there and four accounts with my husband and myself, but I was the I was um central to all of them.

Um my youngest child deposited a a check

that he thought was a refund check. Um the person that issued the refund check then called the next day and said, "Oh, that was a mistake. Can you wire us the money back?" And he knew instantly that was fraudulent. He called the big bank and said, "Hey, I deposited this check.

They just called me. I think it's a fraud. I just wanted to let you know. I haven't spent the money." And they said, "That's fine. We'll you know, we'll take care of it." And the next day they closed his account, which I was on, and every account that was associated with me. Mhm, because of the fraud.

Correct. That's tough.

>> Um so, it wasn't great and they didn't let me know. Um I basically my banking app disappeared and I called the the bank number and asked and they said, "Oh, we we closed all your accounts." And I said, "Without email, phone call, mail?"

And they said, "Yes, that that's our that's our policy is to close your banking app and then you have to call us and we'll tell you that we've closed your account.

Okay, what did they say about the money? I mean, it's FDIC insured, so it's not going to disappear. They have to give you this money back legally.

Yes, I think it's just a delay after delay. Are they going to mail you a check or something?

Supposedly they're going to mail a cashier's check, but every time that I speak with them they say they're still in their quote closed process. How How long ago was this? >> February the 2nd. February the 2nd. So it's over 2 months now.

Yes. I might send a certified letter to the bank's legal and compliance department. That's That's more sure to get their attention versus customer service or like a branch manager. Who they don't have much power.

With somebody in the that is trying to resolve through the see they've combined the OCC and CFPB and they are telling me they are with the bank but that they don't have any power to force the bank to do anything within the system.

Um so do you think the letter would have more power than that? >> I'm just going to be the squeaky wheel. I'm going to hit it at 17 different angles until someone does something. You know what I mean? That's my style. I mean you can also go to your state's Your state has a banking regulator. Uh like a department of financial institutions and so you could kind of double up the pressure there.

Okay. But again just be squeaky.

>> a Do you need the checking account, Kim?

The What like you had four with your husband, you said. So do you guys need that to to live off of? I mean I'm assuming five grand spread out in all those accounts.

You don't but >> we did No thankfully we did have some in reserve at a [clears throat] credit union and so we've pulled out of that to to cover what what was in those accounts and of course we're still currently getting income. So I am thankful that we had that set up I do listen to you guys so that's what we tried to follow up on. Get some diversification in your banking.

What's that? Get some diversification with your banking. >> Is it Bank of America? Who is it? It is Bank of America. Yes, she knew it. Ding ding ding. Corporate just horrible.

>> Well man. Oh.

>> It's why I don't do business with these huge banks. I love a credit union for that because they treat you like a person and we have a great relationship with Fairwinds Credit Union. Kim, if you want to diversify now and have a secondary backup, Fairwinds is awesome.

>> Like they really do care, honestly.

>> Someone will actually pick up and help you, especially if you tell them Rachel and George sent me. >> Yes, [music] Kim, I'm so sorry. Um that yeah, I think the squeaky wheel approach is it cuz honestly, in a bank like that, you're just a number. >> [music] >> It's just you're just going to be floating around out there.

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>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Camel. And the lines are open at 888-825-5225.

Up first, we have Matthew in Charlotte,

North Carolina. We were just there last week. Hey Matthew, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you? Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

Um just trying to figure out how to stop living paycheck to paycheck. Um my wife

works, I work.

You know, we have a house, cars, kids.

And we just can't seem to get ahead. We're just treading water constantly. How much debt do you guys have?

Um

you know, if we're not including the house and it's just the cars and uh probably around close to 90.

How much are on the cars? What's the balances of those?

Uh my wife just got a new car because her previous car had a bunch of electrical problems.

And we were kind of upside down on that one. And so they rolled that one over into the new car. And so that one's fresh. That one's at like 62 grand. Oh

my god. >> And what kind of vehicle is this?

It's a Nissan Pathfinder. Oh boy.

>> fancy. >> underwater are you?

Uh I mean, I'm drowning right now.

>> No, is that Is it worth 40 grand?

Uh yeah, the car, yeah. Brand new? Is it brand new?

Yeah. >> Okay, so you said nothing You said nothing fancy.

Matthew, you guys just bought a brand new SUV Pathfinder. So It's pretty pretty nice. Pretty nice.

Okay, so we're just going to let's just keep the reality where it is. So you guys got a brand new car. >> do not necessitate going out and buying a brand new car.

That was an emotional decision.

We don't have them we didn't have the money to get it the electrical problems fixed and it would have worn out. There was other cars [laughter] in the fleet.

Right. So okay, yeah, yeah. So I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just trying to get to the root here which is we need

to own up to the things that we did and not go, "Well, we had to." Cuz that's usually the sign you're going to stay in the cycle. >> Yeah, and and majority of this debt of the 90 is that one car. So what what is the other car? What payments do you have on it? How much is it worth?

I also had to get it recently. I got a used car.

Cuz my car was I had $1,500 left on it

so and it required like $8,000 in

work.

So what's the balance of this car that you have?

20. What do you guys make a year?

My wife makes about 45.

I brought home 96.

Okay, good. So you guys are clearing 140

grand a year. Yeah,

and not including my raise my last raise

that I'll be getting which is a a $14 increase so I'll be That's big.

That's like 30 grand a year.

You're saying it's going up by $14 an hour?

Yeah, I'll be roughly about 50 an hour.

Okay. So what's the other debt? You got 20 on one, 62 on the other. That's 82.

Is there another eight laying around?

Yeah, between credit cards.

About that, yep. Okay.

Well, the main thing I would do is get out of the 62K debt. That about solves the problem, doesn't it?

Well, I would then wouldn't it change our credit? And like how would I go

about that? I just tell the bank, "Hey, we can't afford it." And they take it or >> Here's what you need to do. You need to come up with the difference that you're underwater on. Which is going to be a lot cuz you guys rolled negative equity into it. So, how much >> might need to save up 20 grand. Yeah.

>> sell this thing. But then you need maybe another five or six more to go get a used car for now.

In cash. Right.

But that gets you What's the payment on that thing?

Mhm. About 1,200. Ooh. Would 1,200 bucks freed up change your life right now?

Uh I would like to say it would, but I I'd I don't think it would.

How much underwater are you guys every month on your bills?

Mhm. Let's say bill's about a thousand dollars. We don't have heat or air conditioning.

Um you know, we you know, we steal from Peter to pay Paul constantly. >> making what? You're taking home nine grand a month?

Between the two of us, yeah, probably.

Okay. She gets paid bi-weekly. I get paid weekly. What you guys need to do tonight is have a come to Jesus conversation and make a budget for the first time in your marriage.

Where do you lay out, "Hey, here's the next paychecks coming in. Here's all the bills that are going out. We need to make sure that we're not spending more than we make." And you might you might at least see the reality of, "Hey, we're two grand underwater every month." >> And we're going to cut up the credit cards.

At all. >> Right. Yeah, mine are in the freezer right now in a bunch of water. Send them to hell. >> Nice. Forget the freezer. Cut them up.

>> Burn them.

They have not been a blessing in your life. >> Yeah. And do you have any savings, Matthew?

No. >> No. Okay. No. Okay. What's your What's your wife? How How is money between you guys in the relationship? When you Like the fact you're calling us, does she Is she begging you to to change or you begging her to change? What Like where are you guys at?

Um I mean, it's I would like to say it's more her.

Um constantly like

She doesn't even really get stuff for herself. I don't get stuff for myself.

It's more or less like kids need shoes.

You got 82 grand in vehicles. I'd say that's getting something for yourself.

Right. I mean, I see that as, you know, I I need a safe vehicle for my wife and kids.

Not when you can't afford it, Matthew.

Can we be honest? A 2018 Pathfinder would have been just fine.

Right, but then you have to worry about warranty and, you know, something happens, we don't have the money to Not if you save $1,200 a month, you get to save up an emergency fund and have six grand in about, I don't know, a couple months, you know? >> You create your own warranty program.

>> are it. >> Called Bank of Matthew. Yep. Yep.

>> So, do you see what we're trying to get at here? If you keep thinking like this, you're going to stay in this cycle. We're trying to break you out of this thing by making some really deep sacrifices so that you never say, "Well, I had to." Cuz if if that's the case, we can't help you. >> So, there's a There is a a change in perspective you guys have to have to say, "We are in charge of our money and our decisions.

Like we're going to choose what our money's going to do. We are in charge. We're not just going to let things happen and well, we have to do this. We got to do that.

Oh gosh, we're stuck in this corner." There has to be a perspective change, and when that happens, then you actually get to look in the mirror, if you will, and say, "All right, who's going to change our lives? We are. This is This is us." So, now we have to If we don't want to be where we are today with money, then we have to do everything opposite that we've been doing.

We've been relying on debt, we can't rely on debt. We haven't been living on a budget, we don't really know where our money's going, we have to be on a budget. Like, I literally, Matthew, do the opposite of everything you guys have been doing. And so, if you hang on the line, Christian's going to pick up, we're going to give you every dollar for a year.

You guys need to sit down tonight and do a written budget. Where does nine grand go >> [music] >> every single every single month? Like, where line item by line item where is this going? And then your next goal is to save up a thousand dollars, first and foremost, that's your starter emergency fund.

[music] And then you guys need to start working your way out of debt, but there there has to be a level of ownership and agree, you know, you guys have to agree that we we can't keep doing this.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Up next on the line, we have Chris in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> [music] >> Well, I'm going through a now 3-year

divorce and having hard time

uh financing the rest of the divorce.

We've used up quite a bit of assets during that time.

Um so, I'm trying to figure out

>> Yes. Yeah, well Why has it dragged out for 3 years? >> soon to be Um she had a um she had a stake hold in her company that she worked for.

Um they have private shares. It's private company and so, we had to do like long discovery process because they were unwilling to give the information. So, I had to hire a forensic accountant.

The accountant um had to do a lot of digging and you know, it just cost me probably 200,000 now uh over those 3 years.

Did you have that money?

I did. Now, I'm out. So, I've been

uh signing up for credit cards to

pay for the attorney's and the accountant. How much credit card debt are you in?

About 30,000 now.

And and counting because we're still

not we're still litigating.

I mean, where where is the end in sight here?

We were supposed to be done in February, but the stock price changes every March.

So Let's play this out. What if this is another 2 years? And now you're $200,000

in debt. Was it worth this?

Yeah, because every year, and this is

what I tried to talk to my ex-wife about, was every year the stock price goes up and we own

about 300,000 shares in the company,

which if it fluctuates a dollar, that's close to another half million a year

just if it's a dollar a share increase.

So we're looking at 1.7 million difference

from 2025 to 2026 in the value. But at

this point, we're gambling. Because if you lose this thing and you're 200 grand in debt, now you're screwed.

Yeah, I'm kind of getting richer and poorer at the same time. So it's it's it's a weird predicament to be >> this to mediation?

We we mediated three times now.

Um And so I'm confused what the hold up is. What why is this not What what What else do you have to have for it to be final?

Uh for her to I guess give up and face

reality. Um you know, we've tried to mediate and we're so far off on the numbers it basically needs to go to trial.

And the trial date just keeps on getting pushed off the docket um and moved forward because of non-cooperation on on their side. We wanted to get it done. Uh sent in offers, no counteroffers were put in. Um so it's just drawn out. I think she's just drawing it out so that she bleeds me, basically, is what the It's worked.

I guess. Now you're going into crippling debt. At some point, you're going to have to give up and wave the white flag while making lawyers really rich. You have funded some really a nice lifestyle for some lawyers.

Oh, for sure. I'm sure they're building pools in their backyard. I mean, at some point, we just need to make this a peace treaty and cut our losses.

Or take what you can get. Come to a compromise. I No, I don't know how to do that without >> Is it all or nothing for you? Like what is a Let's say what's a decent scenario

that you get some of these shares?

Well, we The company has a clause that clearly states how the shares get split in the case of a divorce.

Um and they write a check, you know, for

whatever the court determines. So, it's

actually the company. It's very simple.

It's It's a simple process.

Um So then what's by What's from the legal perspective, why is it dragged out? If it's that simple of what you're saying, I don't understand why all the lawyers don't see that and >> it it Yeah, it was discovery. Discovery

was the longest part of the process and the forensic accounting part. And then so but it cost money. You know, that cost money. I knew that it was going to be a She We had We had separate assets and I I hear it all the time with you guys.

Oh, we lost you, Chris. >> Chris?

Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay, well Yeah, I hear This

got You said discovery was the longest.

Is it over? Because you said you guys kind of found everything, but then the stocks changed over in March, so now we're in April. So, what's your What's your What's your final cuz you don't want to live 5 more years like this, Chris.

No, we're looking at possibly So, my lawyer has told me that we have a meeting in the May and then we determine what the next trial date is and that's supposedly going to be September.

And they're going to keep working on the same that whole time.

Yes. So, this could go a whole 'nother year before there's some resolution.

Which means you're another 100 grand in debt easily.

Yes, but I don't know how to get out of that. I mean, you're stuck in the process. What's your network today?

Yeah, what How much are Yeah, how much do you have, Chris? How much I mean house, your assets, what where are you at financially?

Um I still have two properties in the

Carolinas that are I own outright. One burned down. My wife filed for divorce in

February of '23 and then the house burned down a week later up in the Carolinas. Okay, how much are those worth?

Probably 50,000 and then

the other property is about 15,000.

What's your total network?

Wait, a property? Is it Is it just land?

I had a house. It had a house and it burned down. It got set on fire.

>> So, the land is only worth 15 grand?

Mm 50 grand for that land and then the

with the the land across the street is about 16,000.

>> Okay. And what are you doing with those two properties?

I have my own company and it fluctuates.

Like last month, I I made like 30,000.

This month, I'll probably make like 5,000. So, overall, probably about

100,000. I work on uh medical equipment. Okay.

Man, I would personally I know this is like your sunk cost fallacy. I would cut my losses and go you can rebuild a great life and build wealth from scratch.

You're a smart guy, you'll get there.

I also know that you could burn another 150 grand on the off chance you can make half million a year. I just don't think the risk is worth it and the stress.

It's going to take years off your life to keep this battle up emotionally and mentally on top of financially. Of what it is, yeah. And I would I would sell those properties. I wouldn't be a long Well, I was going to say landlord. I don't think there's any occupancy in in this >> Yeah. situation. So, I'd go ahead and just get rid of those properties. Yes.

>> if you're going to keep fighting this. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's 66 grand that you'll have um to help at least pay

off some of this credit card debt. And I think Chris, you have to make a decision to say, "Okay, at you know, whatever that breaking point is for you." We're never going to tell you to continue to go into debt.

Um so, yourself, if you if you're choosing to kind of play that game, you at least please, you at least need a point in your mind to say, "If we get to X point on the calendar

and nothing has moved or there or there's no set there's nothing like even if a trial date, you know, keeps moving out. Like you can't just live in this cycle forever and ever like George says." >> This is the same part of your brain like a gambling addict where they just go, "Well, I just got to double down. This time's going to be different. I'm going to get it this time." Yes.

I just don't think it's worth it when you're a smart guy making great money. >> Well, and I'm very and it's a little confusing if if it's so clear in the bylaws of the company of what happens to the shares in in the case of a divorce, how how that's not It would have happened by now if it was going to happen. >> naive, right? And and again, I know every divorce is very different.

Every state is different. Every whatever, but how it's just not spelled out like that and then that's part of all the assets that are um >> [music] >> you know, divided up and everything. So, my fear is that you've been in a 3-year rollercoaster that that there's no clarity. >> of your children.

It's just about I could have had a gigantic pile of money and I won't have that. Yeah.

I would grieve that, move on. >> Absolutely. Oh, sorry, Chris. Hope that's helpful. It's probably not the advice you wanted, but sometimes it is just to cut the ties, just to get everything settled and be done and move on.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> If you're working the baby steps, and the best and fastest way to do it is [music] by using every dollar. So, this is more than just a budgeting app. It really is a plan [music] that is built right in.

And so, you can track your progress, and you can get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up money even faster.

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you what we would do. If you had called the Ramsey Show, that's that is the hope. So, make sure to check out EveryDollar. You can start EveryDollar completely free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play.

All right, let's head to John in New York City. Hi, John. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, George. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, I work for a very, very small family business, and we don't have a 401k

retirement plan.

So, the owner is offering me something

called deferred equity. So, this would be a small percentage every year that I'm there. Um but, I don't get paid unless the business is sold.

And if I leave, I get nothing.

Is that too much risk for me to take on, or is it a wise retirement choice?

No, I would not bank on my retirement for that. I would be doing some other things with investing. But, would that just be an added I don't know, um benefit to your retirement? >> to it, or they just going to give this to you regardless?

They're going to give me 1 and 1/4% uh retroactive to when I started. Um

So, when would you even get that payout?

You'd have to be still employed there when they sell it in order to make anything. Correct. And so, I guess the idea is I

would get first dibs on the business if that, you know, when that day comes, and I could use that deferred equity as a down payment on the business. Or if I choose not to do that and someone else buys it, then I would get paid out.

Are they planning on selling the business? Is that part of the long-term plan?

Eventually. Is that 30 years from now or three? Cuz there's a big difference. Well, exactly.

I I have no idea. It could be I think realistically maybe around 10 years, but

who knows. Well, I mean, if it costs you nothing, take it. I still would prefer a retirement plan that's actually yours instead of basically a promise. Yeah, is there an option of he would give you like a traditional 401k situation or this? Or is it that this is the retirement package and that's it?

>> this is basically a way to keep I'm I'm essentially running the business right now and and by um by providing this uh benefit >> plan. forward to It's a retention plan.

Okay, what do you make?

I gross a little over 80, and I have I get uh health insurance and a company vehicle.

Okay. And what kind of uh industry is this?

It's I'm not going to say exactly what it is, but it's very niche, and it will

I can guarantee it will always be around. Do you want to take it over one day?

I could. I I wouldn't I think if the circumstances were right, I would like to. Uh it's something my family's been involved in for nearly 100 years. So, How old are you?

>> I could carry that on. I'm 35. Okay. You got any debt? >> [clears throat] >> Just the house. Awesome. Are you investing currently?

Very, very little. Just a whatever fraction I I have on my Roth IRA.

Is it because money's too tight?

It's too tight right now.

Mhm. Well, that worries me.

Cuz you need to build wealth on your own. And if this equity doesn't happen, you're going to retire broke.

Yeah. So, that's where I go. We have a We have another fish to fry, which is why can't I invest 15% of my income? Why can't I fully fund a Roth IRA? I would at least be doing That's the bare minimum is you funding a Roth IRA every single year without fail.

In order to set yourself up.

>> I I need to make more money, which is something that I I plan on negotiating because I I I know that it's there. Can you make six figures doing this elsewhere?

Yes, but I don't know I I'd probably have to relocate to do it.

I might be willing to do that. Are you single?

No, I'm married. Okay. What does she What does your wife do? >> working?

She works part-time for college.

Okay. Do you guys have kids?

Not yet, but we're planning on it. Okay.

I would have She needs to go full-time.

She needs to be working. And you guys need to be funding 15% of your income into retirement. That's your answer.

Right?

Oh, I agree. Yeah.

So, I think you both need to sit down and say, "Okay, what do we want our lives to look like?" Um and run some numbers. You can use like even just the Ramsey investment calculator to say, "Hey, right now if we fund 15% of our income into retirement, where are we going to go?" So, Cuz if you make a 100 grand household, you could fund two Roth IRAs, you and your spouse. And if you can't do that, it tells me either you have Your expenses are too high or the cost of living is too high, in which case you should go move.

Cuz if you move somewhere where the cost of living lower, and you can make six figures, it's a no-brainer. So, I would not hang on to these golden handcuffs of a promise of equity at 1% per year that you might use as a down payment to buy the business one day if you can even afford it. There's just way too many variables there for me to be comfortable with. >> And if they're giving that to you as a benefit, and you're loving the job, and you and your wife sit down, and she works more, and you guys kind of figure out, "Okay, here's what we can do for the next couple of years." Then yeah, take the take the benefit they're giving you.

It's no harm to you. It's just going to be an extra thing you have in your back pocket, but I would not at all have the confidence that it's actually going to play out. >> I would work on negotiating that to say, "Hey, I'm going to vest 3 years in, I can take that equity out, and you can pay me that if I do leave." >> Absolutely. All right, let's head to Zoe in Des Moines.

Hi, Zoe. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great.

Yeah, I was wondering if I should sell the car that I have currently. So, there's like uh just under 12,000 left on it. Um and

the payment is like 275 a month, and if

I take what I have over a thousand dollars in my savings, and just um leave that thousand-dollar emergency fund, and then um what I got back in a tax refund, I could knock it down the

loan would be about um 6,500 instead.

So, I'm just trying to decide if I should get rid of this one, get a different car, and have no payment, or if I knock it all the way down to 6,500 and pay it off before the end of the year if that's okay. Yeah, how much do you make a year?

Um like 40. Okay. What's the car worth?

Um 16.

Oh, so you would make money on it.

Yeah. Yep. Um and you could how quickly could you pay it off with the with the 6,500 take you? You said to the end of the year.

>> Uh definitely by the end of the year, yeah.

>> Okay. Do you like the car?

I do. Yeah. >> like the debt. Sure. Well, I mean, use that as fuel. If you don't like the debt, let's aggressively just pay the debt off, but the car is not inherently the issue here. It is a lot of car. I mean, it's worth 16k and you make 40.

That's a pretty big, you know, ratio, but it's not on fire. We wouldn't tell you, "Hey, you got to sell it." And if the car was worth 30 grand, I would say, "Yeah, this needs to be sold tomorrow." Yeah. But you could, if you wanted to, you know, you take your debt down to 6,500, you sell it for 16, leaves you with 9,500 to go buy a a new to you car.

You could do that, but it's a lot of effort to then just have a different car that you might like less.

Yeah. Okay. So, I would aggressively just pay it off. I probably would, too.

Just from the hassle standpoint, when you look at the numbers. I mean, you could try to earn an extra grand and have this paid off, you know, in Well, I guess which would be close to the end of the year. So, about the same.

>> That's sad. We're already there. I know. I'm like, "Only one month." >> Bro, I know. That's what I was thinking, too. Um yeah, so I think it's it is either way, Zoe, I think it's fine. I think it would probably be a personal choice at this point. If you do keep it, be gazelle intense, pay it off as soon as you can, but if you're like so tired of

it, which it kind of sounds like you are, and you're just like, "I don't care about the hassle. I will sell this thing. I will go down to, you know, a different car and just be done with it in 30 days Yeah. and have no payments and you're be happy, you could do that, too.

>> But it's 275 a month. So, all things considered, it's not a make-or-break in your budget, likely, but I mean, it's still eating your lunch at 40k after taxes.

>> [music]

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>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you [music] by Yrefi.

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Today's question comes from Patrick in Michigan. Do you think it's a good idea for my 19-year-old daughter to buy a small home while she goes to college? I would be a cosigner and she would rent out the extra rooms and manage it. She would use the rental income to pay the mortgage, but I could potentially be her backup. Does this sound like a solid housing plan for her?

Woof. I don't think so. Just shivered. It sounds like you saw a TikTok that sounded really cool or it was like, "Just It's easy.

Buy an investment property, your daughter lives in it, and it'll You can rent out the rooms. It's a money-making scheme." I don't want to combine these things. These are good things, buying an investment property, but you're doing it in a bad way by cosigning and forcing yourself to buy in that area. That's right.

knows if it's going to be a good area. And it's not a long-term plan. >> a college town, right? Is where you're buying.

Um so, no. I mean, I would ask my I would ask the question, would I buy an investment property in this area regardless if I had a child there or not. >> Yep. And I wouldn't co-sign. If you want to do it, just buy it outright yourself.

>> right. And let her manage it for a fee or something. You know what I mean? Like, if you wanted to like have something But you he probably I don't know if Patrick has a primary home with a mortgage on it, but I would not go get another mortgage. So, if you can buy it in cash and you're just excited about this prospect of owning some property out there for whatever amount of time, I would you can go for it, but I would not do it the way you're describing here.

All right, let's head to Logan in Is that Lafayette? Yeah. Hey, Logan.

>> Lafayette. It's Lafayette, isn't it?

Hey, Logan. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks Thank Thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. Welcome. How can we help?

So, I'm kind of in a little bit of a pickle right now to where I'm trying to stick to the baby steps and make

meaningful progress towards paying off my debt, but I just feel like, you know, that that $1,000 I save like I I will

push it up to about three grand and then I kind of feel bad for having that much money knowing it could be used somewhere else and I just pay off my debt to get get back down to $1,000 emergency fund. So, I think it's just I need like a clear goal in mind about paying off my debt and that's where I where I'm asking you guys is how can I stick to that baby step number two?

Um well, that kind of is your goal is each individual debt that you're paying off is what you're looking at and that's going to be your goal is the next smallest debt. Is there something that's happening in your life that you're going to need more in that emergency fund or is it just the idea of having a thousand dollars that makes you nervous or what causes you to keep bumping it up?

Well, uh cuz I moved out with my girlfriend in August of this past year.

Um I used to live in a different state and then we got jobs over here in Indiana, so that's where we've been for like the last 8 months, but my girlfriend was actually in a pretty bad car accident in October and she did not

have health insurance, so she just has a mountain pile of debt too that she's trying to pay off, so that's why I was thinking that I probably will need a little bit more just in case if she's unable to pay something off or pay her bills, then maybe I can step in to help that way, but How much debt do you have?

Right now, I actually just I paid off my

credit cards. It was about five grand worth of credit cards about two months ago, so I just got the auto loan, which I did about a $2,500 payment today, so

Nice. >> be around 19 eight, I believe. Just the >> 20 grand left on the car?

Yes. >> What do you make a year?

I make about 41,000. Oof.

Man, that's a lot of car for your life.

Yeah. What's the car worth? >> it.

I'm going to be honest. It I got it at a pretty bad interest rate, too, but the car is worth probably around 11 to 13,

give or take, trade-in. Did you roll over negative equity?

Uh I did not. Um I'm wondering private party value, if you can get closer to that 20 and you just save up five or six grand over the next couple months and just sell it and get a different car.

It that that was my plan, too, but it I think the main issue is with that is me and my girlfriend, we all we work different shifts, so it's going to be hard to do.

>> I don't I mean, we probably could, but I feel like it'd be more of a hassle just because I go to work at 12:30 and she goes to work at 4:30, so it's going to be kind of hard to But y'all still currently share one car?

Uh we do not. No, she she she she has her own car. Okay, wait. So, what's the what what's the problem about working about working different shifts? You're not going to be using her car. I'm saying get a different car. You save up six grand or whatever the difference you're underwater in and then save up enough to get a different car, cheap car.

And then you'll have a different car and with no payment. And then you can stack up that emergency fund really quick.

>> basically instead of paying off 20,000

then just save up 10, cut your timeline in half, save up 10, pay off the negative equity, and then go get yourself a $4,000 car.

>> Let's say you sell yours for 15, you owe 20, right? So, use part of your 10 to cover that, that's five, and then you'll have five left to get a new to you car.

>> So, you just cut your whole timeline in half basically of getting out of debt.

So, So, instead of just making extra payments on my car, just save up the 10 grand in cash and just do it that way.

>> Yep. Yep. That's what I would do.

How quickly could you do that if you got real aggressive, working multiple jobs,

overtime if you can, all of that?

Probably by the end of the year.

Give or take. Okay.

That's not a bad timeline, and now it's hey, I can survive on a thousand buck emergency fund till the end of the year.

And if something comes up, you just stop the baby steps and stack up cash really quick. Yeah, instead of all of 2027 still paying off this car. Do you know what I mean? Like it just it shrinks down that timeline. And then and then after that car, you you have the new car, the old one sell you know, sold and all of that, then you start saving up an emergency fund. And at this point, truthfully, you're not in a place to support your girlfriend.

Yeah, you don't have the money. You're broke.

Yes, I am. So, that's not a reality where you can cover her rent for her for any amount of time. >> are you guys?

Uh she's 20 and I'm 21. Okay.

Um Do you have health insurance?

Sorry, say that again? Do you have health insurance?

Uh my dad pays for it. Uh she she has her own. Okay. >> Okay. So Logan, I think what you're doing and your thought process of taking care of her is very honorable.

But I would keep finances as separate as

possible. Um because there is no legal marriage

here. There's nothing that protects you in any of this. Um cuz there's a Yeah, I

mean I hope not, but there's a good chance that, you know, you guys 6 months down the road aren't together anymore. And if you, you know, went into debt or started giving, you know, all this money to her. Yeah, you know, that's 10, 12 grand that you don't have going to someone that's You're not married to. And so it sounds really harsh.

And again, if you're in a position to help pay for her and you want to, and even if she leaves or you leave and it's, you know, you look back years from now and you're like, "Oh wow." And you feel good about it still, then that's one thing. But we just have talked to some people they pay on, you know, people's student loans and they're, you know, they're co-mingling lives. And so what happens is you end up co-mingling money naturally because you basically are acting like you're married, but you're not. And so I would just I would just give you a word of caution.

money. And if if she can't pay rent for foreseeable amount of time, she needs to go find somewhere she can afford it or go live with family while she heals.

But you can't foot the bill for her.

Yeah, I see that that makes sense, but it's it's also a fact that I I I've had a hard time saving over years as well to where I've actually never had probably more than like four grand cash at one time as well throughout my working life for the last 4 years. Yeah. And would you say that's due to having a little bit of debt?

Yeah, this is just doing stupid decisions when I was 18, 19 years old and translating to now, yes. Yeah. So so let that fear be the fuel to get out of that faster with that thousand bucks going, "Hey, I'm not safe. I want to be at a place where I got 20 grand saved up to protect me." And that's where you'll be if you follow the plan.

Yeah, and Logan, you're on the right track. And I mean, being 21 and starting this plan is amazing. There's people 41 that are starting this.

>> you are ahead decades. [music] If you do this stuff, Logan, stay out of debt, live below your means, have this emergency fund, get out of debt, bump it up to a fully funded emergency fund, start [music] investing in retirement. I mean, literally walking the baby steps, you will retire a multi-millionaire.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruze with George Kamel, and we are taking your questions at 888-825-5225.

All right, in Armadillo, Texas, we have Katrina on the line. >> Armadillo? Amarillo?

But it was so I'm like, is there an Armadillo, Texas? Cuz there needs to be.

>> I literally was thinking Texas. >> Katrina, can you confirm? My gosh, Amarillo, I'll never live that down, Katrina. Dad gum it.

>> Amarillo. It's okay. Oh, my gosh, Katrina. She's

so relatable. No. I love it.

>> [laughter] >> Katrina, welcome to the show. How can we help?

So, I'm just kind of been chasing my

tail. Um Like an armadillo.

>> [laughter] >> Or a cat, like Katrina cat. Oh, there we go. Catrina.

thanks you for helping that out.

You're fine. You're fine. So, I have been chasing Mattel for a while and a series of bad luck with my family.

Leon Dave he talks about Murphy's Law.

Well, Murphy moved into my home and and has affected my me, my grown [clears throat] daughter, her good friend, and my husband and it's been

heck. Like we are trying to balance out the bills. Um and basically we're on payment plans

for everything and we have

uh according to our budget and every dollar it looks like it's going to be okay, but it's never okay because we're

paying payment plans on everything which is more expensive. For example, I just paid last month a $678 water bill.

So, there's unexpected things that come up? >> behind on utilities? Is that what you're saying? Yes, and on everything. On everything.

Okay. So, what's happened in life, Katrina, when you said Murphy moved in?

Well, um I worked for the place that was grant funded and my grant was ending and fortunately it took me a while, but I've got another job and it's good.

Okay. My daughter worked for the same place.

Okay.

How old is she?

She's 22. She Before this she had her

own place. Okay. So, she's living with you now because she can't afford her own place?

Yes. >> Because of this new job doesn't pay what she was making?

Yeah, it doesn't. It's not even a living wage and then And that's the same place you're working?

Was working. Okay. >> We both worked at the same place and >> And what was it? What were you guys doing?

Um I was helping with health care navigation and she was helping with finding people homes. I mean, worked for HUD. Worked for HUD, okay. What are you making now?

I am making about 4,500, I think, a

month. Is that your household income?

No, just mine. My husband makes about 2,400 bring home. What does he do?

Um, he works for the state. He's works for workforce development and he's a been there for 20-something years. And he makes 30 grand? Yeah.

Yeah. That doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it's um, he says he had a raise and then they had a cut and that was another thing that messed us up.

They gave him promotion, gave him a raise and then demoted across the board because of funding, demoted everybody.

What does he do? What's his role?

Um, he's workforce development specialist. So, he helps people find jobs. Mhm.

Okay, so your take home pay is $6,900 and what's the total balance of all the consumer debts that you guys owe?

Consumer debts, uh, that would be close >> Okay, that would be close like 200,000.

Wow. >> take. That does not include the mortgage?

Um, no, that does include the mortgage.

Let me It's going to be about 150,000, I think.

100 >> mortgage And my mortgage about 144,

but it's less now cuz I've paid it.

Okay, so you have $150,000 in debt aside from the mortgage.

Mhm. Break down some of those debts for us. Um, about 70 is um is uh student loans, of course. Whose are those? They're they're mine. They're equal.

How long have you had them?

Since 2012.

Okay.

We have some credit cards and then we have about a $30,000 No, sorry. $20,000

left on the car.

We paid one car off.

Okay. And what's on the credit cards?

It was basic living expenses. I mean you got 70 in student loans and 20 on a car loan that's 90 out of the 150. So where's the other 60? Is that all credit cards? >> I No, it's not 60,000. I didn't math correctly. I'm sorry. Okay. Closer

closer closer to 15. Sorry. Okay. It's

all good. That definitely helps. 150 grand was a worse number. So All right. So you got just about $105,000 and most of it is those student pesky student loans.

And then we got this car loan. So if you laid out your debt smallest to largest, I'm guessing one of these little credit cards is the first one that needs to go.

Yes, it would be.

Okay. And right now you're saying when you do the budget, there is money left over on paper.

Yes. How much is left if nothing crazy happened in a month?

Um about 400.

And what payment plans are you guys on?

You said utilities.

Yeah, I'm just utilities and of course

my mortgage. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So but you're able to pay your mortgage every month, correct?

No, I'm paying 29 days behind. Okay. So

I think our first goal is to get caught up. So we want to get out of this payment plan with the utilities and we want to be caught up to the mortgage. Okay, Katrina. That's our And paying your four walls before any debt payments get paid. >> Yes. So food shelter which utilities and and house is this.

So this is your this is your rate one before anyone gets paid. Okay, credit cards could go. The car payment would be the next priority after the four walls cuz you got to get from A to B to get to work.

But outside of that, if the student loans and credit cards can't get paid one month, I'd rather those go to default than your utilities and your housing. >> Yes. Yeah, they haven't been getting paid.

Who's not been getting paid?

I know I said those have not been getting paid. >> loan or the credit cards?

No, they uh just stopped.

>> Okay. So So you have $7,000. How much does your daughter bringing in a month?

Uh whatever $11 an hour is. Okay, so she

needs to go be working >> grand a year or so. somewhere Yeah, somewhere else, too. You know what I mean? Be looking for a job. And you mentioned a friend. Is there a friend living with you all?

Yes. Yes, uh just a family friend that

was uh a roommate with her. And Is she

working? >> his job. He lost his job, too. But he just now recently found a good one. And they need to be paying rent.

They were, and then they So he I don't make her do it, but he does, and he was paying, and then he had to stop cuz he lost his job, but he's got a good one now. Like we're at the starting level, everything's okay now. We just need to get out of this chasing my tail thing. >> Yeah.

Okay, so the $7,000 a month, Katrina, that you guys have, you guys have to pay the mortgage on that and and [music] making sure that the car is paid for and your utilities. That's all you guys have to do. And then you're going to be eating rice and beans, beans and rice.

There's like the food budget is nothing.

Like we are We're going to eat, but it's like that's low. We're doing nothing else but catching up. And that needs to be your goal probably for the next couple of paycheck cycles. >> On top of your husband getting a better job. I mean, that that solves a whole lot of problems if he can double his income by doing some work that pays him what he's worth.

>> [music]

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>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

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>> Kyle in Lansing, >> [music] >> Michigan is up next. Kyle, welcome to the show. Hey Rachel, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, um we 2 months ago we um lost my mom to an unexpected

heart attack. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

How old was she? Um Um 79. Mm, I'm so sorry.

Lost my dad 5 years ago uh to cancer and I recently came into a sizable amount of money and I just want some opinions on how to not lose it.

Okay. What does a sizable amount of money mean?

It's uh touch over 2 and 1/2 million.

Wow. Okay. Was this from mom's estate or what? It is. Yeah.

>> Okay. Wow, so your parents did well,

obviously. >> Yes. Did you know about all this? Is this a surprise to you?

Yes and no. Um, I have two siblings. Uh, we always knew they were comfortable, but just not to this scale,

I guess. Yeah. You didn't know just how comfortable. Right. Right. Wow.

>> Oh my gosh. Wow. What What kind of um

How is this 2 and 1/2 million divvied out? Is this in cash? Is it in an asset?

For the most part, um, most of it's all it most of it's a like a Edward Jones, um, Okay. There's about a half a million in IRA we got to get out in 10 years and

the rest is in cash. Wow. Okay. What do

you make? Um, between my wife and I we're about 200. Fantastic. And how old are you guys? Um, I'm 45. My wife's 47. Okay.

And how are you guys financially?

Uh, we're we're pretty good. Um,

yeah, we just built a new house. Uh,

just under 500,000 in that, which we borrowed the money from my mom to build and since has been forgiven.

Oh, wow. Um, we still have our old house that we're getting ready to sell, you know, painting and putting new carpet in and sprucing it up and that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000. Okay.

So, the Um, the payment to her, that 500 it just went away when she passed. That doesn't That doesn't take out of your 2.5. Well, it's part of the 2.5. Oh, okay.

So, would it be 2 million left or was it supposed to be three, but now it's 2.5?

No, there's just a little over 2 million left. Okay. After the house. After the house. Got it. Got it. Got it. 2 million and you guys have no debts whatsoever.

Nothing. No. But then when you sell this house it goes back up to 2.3 in a sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> With everything. Okay. >> That's great. >> Um and yeah, cash on hand for you guys,

where are you guys at?

Um well, we just moved about 70,000 over into a money market because it was sitting kind of stagnant into and I just have savings account.

Um and our financial advisor

asked us to to move that because that's not doing anything there. Mhm. Is that your emergency fund or is that for earmarked for something else? No, it's just it's just money just extra money.

It's >> You're saving. Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. And how much do you guys have in retirement for you?

Um [snorts] I actually have a pension through work. Um my wife is about she's a little over 200,000 in a Roth and I've got about I don't know, 55,000 in a Roth, I guess.

Okay. Um all right, that's great. So you guys are in what we call baby step seven. You got no debts whatsoever. House is paid for, which puts you in a really unique place cuz you have a lot of options now and there's only three things you can do with money and that's to give it, save it, spend it. And we would recommend doing all three with reasonable ratios.

Okay. So I would be giving a portion of this money. That's up to you guys. It's a matter of the heart. I would be enjoying some of it. What's the thing you guys really want to do? The thing you want to upgrade? Maybe it's a car, maybe it's a thing in the house. And then invest the rest of it and build generational wealth so that you can be able to do this for your kids one day.

Which by the way, do you have kids?

Yeah, we have one one six-year-old. Um and that's that's I'm I've always been a kind of a saver, I guess. You know, my my parents, you know, they beat it into you when you're a kid, save save save.

You know, we've got a new house. We don't need to do anything else there. Um we've got good vehicles. I mean, neither one of us have any desire to buy new vehicles. Right. Um and and I want to make sure that this opportunity is there for my daughter. Mhm. You know, when I'm gone. Yeah.

So, I just don't want this to to trickle away in the next, you know, 30 years or 40 years. I have a good feeling it won't just based on how you're talking to me.

You're probably going to be handing over $10 million to your daughter at this rate. >> Yeah, for sure. I hope you're right.

>> mean, the money, if you just let it sit without adding anything to it, would double every 7 years.

Okay. Yep. So, by the time, you know, if you think about that. 2 million to 4 million

to 8 million to 16 million. Do you see where we're going with this? Yep. Yep.

Yep. And So, I yeah. And so, since you

are a natural saver, Kyle, you know, I would sit down with your financial advisor and kind of you guys map out.

But, part of this, too, is um, you know, create good memories, too, with your daughter. You know, if there's, you know, go on a great trip every year with some of this. You know, and like have some experience and live live life well.

Pay Make sure, you know, she's paying for college. This could be part of golly, her wedding funds, you know, even um, paying for her first starter home or something. You don't even mean I'm like where she never would have debt. Like Like there's some big things that you guys can do with this money that's really wonderful.

And you have the time for it for her specifically, considering she's 6. But, but enjoy some of this, too. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be just stuff.

You guys can afford it. But, find some experiences that you guys can do together as a family. Um, you know, >> got back from a Disney 3D Disney cruise.

Oh, great. So, that was that was a lot of fun. >> That is fun. Yeah. So, like make memories together, too. You know, I think your mom, um, you know, you just kind of think through, okay, what would my parents want for my nuclear family?

And I think they would want peace for you guys. And financially, you know, being debt-free and doing what you guys have done, you you've created that. Um, you know, create some great memories is what I would say as well. But, I think this money, yeah, as you play it out mathematically, um it's going to be plenty for you all in retirement

um and yeah, and to be passing on something to her as well.

All right. Have you funded college?

Uh she has about my mom started a 529 for her and she's got about 28 or 29,000 in there. Oh, that's awesome. I was going to say you could do something called super funding. It's already kind of super funded at six to have 30 grand is awesome, but you might want to put another 10 or 20 grand in there and then never touch it again and just let it ride and she'll be just fine.

That was part of our last meeting with our financial advisor and he he advised us to not just dump a bunch in. He said, "Just trickle a little bit in, you know, couple thousand or few thousand dollars a year." Um Yeah, cuz you guys could just pay out of pocket, too, if she ends up going, you know, you wouldn't get the obviously the Yeah, super funding is basically instead of funding a few grand a year, you just put in 10 grand now and then never add to it.

Okay. >> Cuz mathematically, that'll be the best way if you can lump sum it now and then you won't have to add as much over time in total contributions. So, that's one thing you can do, but that's such a tiny portion of this that it's a drop in the bucket. And so, I would be investing most of this so that you can create generational wealth and I would at least be maxing out, you know, all of your tax advantaged retirement accounts first and then once you run out of options there, move to non-retirement in a taxable brokerage account.

And so, you got a lot of options on the table and I would work with your financial advisor if you trust them to walk you through the best method to invest those dollars, but man, you got a a great problem to have and it what a wonderful legacy Does your Does your wife work, Kyle? She does. She does. Yep.

>> Okay, yep. And and you obviously are working. Yep.

Um I was going to say, yeah, I probably wouldn't change much unless, you know, one of you wanted to stay home and be a stay-at-home parent, you know, if something like that, like there's a big lifestyle shift you guys could do if you wanted, if that's like a value that you guys have. That's what That's one beautiful gift of this money that could happen, but I definitely wouldn't change you know, at least for you or her you know, somebody to still be producing an income. You guys kind of living off of that for your primary source.

Just to Okay. There's a There's kind of a groundingness there. Um and then you kind of have this other fund over here that's growing, but when you want to do something big, it's it's available to you, you know, to be able to take out some money and and enjoy it when the time comes. So, um That's wild.

I mean, they make 200 grand. If they just put 2 million in there and the market does 10% this year, it just replaced their income there.

>> I know. >> [music] >> That's why if you hate your jobs, you know, you can go do something for less money and you're good. Like you know what I mean? >> That's a freedom fund right there.

>> have like that [music] still that purpose, there's something in that that's beautiful. So, um wow, what an amazing testimony you guys of um >> [music] >> God, that does. >> That's how to do it right. >> And money doesn't change the family tree out of this idea of like, oh my gosh, we're suddenly rich.

>> [music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget, so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Well, George, you know, [music] we wish that we could get to every call and every question. >> world. >> But, it's hard. >> We live in a fallen world. We can't get to all of them. We live in a fallen 24 hours in a day. You know, we call some cities uh Armadillo instead of Amarillo. You know, sometimes that happens. So, so we're not perfect. Uh We're fallible creatures.

>> We are. But, here's the thing is most of our advice is consistent, right? What we talk about on this show is what it is.

And for those of you listening and have been listening forever and ever, amen, you could probably answer the questions just as well as me and George. Or that you think you could.

>> think you could. No, but, you know, that that is a great thing because we are

able to use technology because of that, because of so much content that is out there to feed an AI system, if you will.

>> learning model, as they say. >> we Oh, thank you. And we created Ask Ramsey. So, it is our own version of an uh Ramsey AI.

And you can actually go in, ask your question like you were calling the show, talking to one of us, and you will get the answer that we would say on this show because this has been fed, if you will, by I mean, >> transcripts from the show, all the transcripts. >> Yes, of everything, you guys. So, if you have a question about your life and your specific situation, head over to ramseysolutions.com uh and ask your question in the Ask Ramsey box. It's right there for you.

If you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we'll put a link down below, but um you know, technology, you love it and you hate it. And this is a >> This is a love it.

Um you know, if you're not able to to get through. Right now, all of our lines are booked up >> the DMs, I go in my Instagram DMs and like it's three paragraphs or 17 numbers and like I I'm like go use Ask Ramsey. It will walk you Because it will like take all your numbers and do what you need. It's a it really is amazing. So again, check it out at ramseysolutions.com.

All right, we have another person calling from Charlotte, George. We were just there last week. That was a great event, by the way. >> a great time. Thank you to everyone who came out. >> Yes, we're going to be uh in Anaheim next week, George and I are.

>> yeah. Oh my gosh, it's already here.

>> it's sold out. Denver, uh there's a crew that's going to be there tomorrow. It's a lone uh John Delony, Jade Warshaw, and

Ken Coleman. And then Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw, and myself are going to be in Phoenix next week. So um I think there's still some tickets to that one. I think all the other shows are sold out, but Oh, sweet.

Jump on it. >> Yeah, go to ramseysolutions.com for tickets. So a little a little plug for that cuz I see Charlotte on our board and then we had such a fun time. >> people go, "When are you coming to Charlotte?" And we're like, "Dude, we were just there." >> there.

I know, I know, but uh but we are excited to talk to Philip.

Hi George and Rachel, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help?

Um so um me and my wife currently live in a mobile home um out here near Charlotte and um

my in-laws are currently uh we're about to receive an inheritance of $100,000.

Wow. >> Um and they sat us down the other night and um told us they wanted to pay off our mobile home.

Um I was just calling in to get an answer as to whether there will be any kind of gift tax or um or can they just,

you know, put that money in their account and and pay it off or So this is a you're getting this inheritance while they're still alive? Is Is the idea?

Well, well, my uh my uh wife's grandmother is very sick. He's he's not expected to make it.

So, uh So, the inheritance is going to your wife's parents, and then they want to gift it because they don't need it?

Yes, yes, they they Okay.

So, is the 100 [clears throat] is the $100,000, Philip, going to pay off the mobile home, or they want to in addition pay off the mobile home?

Yeah, it it will. Um uh mobile home payoff is like $31,100, somewhere around there. So, Okay.

But so yes, so are they Sorry, are they using the 100,000 for that though?

They are, yes. >> They are. Okay, so you guys would be left with about 70,000 in cash with a paid off mobile home. So, yes, they can do that. You can Yeah, each individual parent can give each individual child $18,000 a year without it >> 19 now. Big upgrade. Is it 19?

>> They upped it to 19.

>> This this time? Okay. >> For 2026, so that's 19.

>> I had 18 in my head. >> annual gift tax exclusion. And so, if the in-laws are married, you guys are married, that's potentially 76 grand in gift exclusions, which just means they don't have to file the gift tax form that goes against their lifetime, you know, estate exemption. And so, that you can do up to that much. Now, you guys will not owe anything in taxes. It's them that have to deal with Hey, if they give over that $76,000 threshold, they'll have to file a a form. That's all. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Absolutely. So, just make sure they're aware. Mhm. And if they have, you know, a tax pro they work with, just say, "Hey, just so you guys know, if you do the full $100,000 this year, you might need to file a form for that extra, you know, 24-ish grand." Um Yeah, Philip, are you guys Do you guys have plans to move out of that home at all? No, no. We're not. We're we're staying. We're here for the long haul. So, uh What long haul?

Until it's worth nothing? For the foreseeable future. >> that's the part that worries me is that mobile homes going down in value. Yeah, make sure you guys are saving on the side, Phillip. That one day, you know, if you guys um yeah, from a value standpoint, from the the value of the mobile home, it will start going down.

Um so, making sure that you guys have some money saved that if you need to upgrade and/or go buy a house or something, you know, that you guys have you're not you're not building any equity right now, if you will. And that's where a lot of people build a lot of their wealth from a home perspective is in their equity in their home. So, just be thinking about that on the just the side that maybe you put I don't know, maybe this this other 70,000 away for who knows, you know, maybe a down payment down the road.

So, just be thinking about that.

All right, let's head to Colton in Asheville. Hi, Colt Colton, welcome to the show. Hey, uh thanks for taking my call. Um

so, I've got a question about my retirement account. Um basically, my

financial advisor's wanting me to do something that just doesn't make any sense to me. I was hoping I could get your advice. Um I worked for a company for 2 and 1/2

years, and during that time, I went

through Financial Peace University, and I realized that instead of putting my retirement into a pre-tax account, I should do the after-tax um 403b. So,

I've got two accounts there.

Um I don't work there anymore, but they are changing from Transamerica Retirement

Solutions to some other company.

And so, they called me and said

like they wanted me to keep my money with Transamerica. Like Transamerica called me. And And so, they want me to pull it out of that account, and then put it into a Roth IRA with them.

And I thought that sounded a little sketchy, so I called my

uh advisor, and he said,

"Don't do that, um but

let's pull it out and put it into a normal IRA um here at Edward Jones. Um

but I'm most likely going to be going back to work with that company like in the next few weeks, um and it'll be a long-term position.

So, I don't know if it even makes any sense to take it away from that company or just let them uh change to their new retirement solution company and keep it with them and start investing back into it.

Well, I would just hang on tight until we know what's going to happen in the next few weeks. If you go back to that job, just you just reopen that 403b and

keep investing. But, it's not bad advice to say once you leave a job, you should do a direct rollover to an IRA cuz you don't have control over that anymore. The employer doesn't want to manage this old fund. It's like keeping your stuff at your ex's house.

And it could be getting dinged with fees at the same time. And the IRA gives you basically unlimited options to invest where your employer plan might have 10 to 15 funds to choose from. Yeah, so Colt, we do always suggest, yeah, when you leave a company, you roll over your 401k or 403b to a traditional IRA.

That's great. If it's traditional 401k money or 403b money. >> If it was Roth, yes, that would be different. Um but, since you may be going back there, yeah, instead of dealing with all the hassle, >> it out.

If you don't go back, I would roll it over. Um you can do it through your advisor, you can do that on your own. There's a lot of options here, but they're not giving you bad advice. And an example is my wife worked at Ramsey for 9 years.

Well, when she left, we rolled over her money. She had some in traditional, some in Roth. We rolled over the Roth side to a Roth IRA, rolled over the traditional side to a traditional IRA. And it was direct rollover, so we didn't see the money.

It was not in our bank account.

>> Yep. So good. Well, yep, hope that helps, Colton. And um yeah, good luck with all the transitions. [music] I hope you kind of get settled and and feel good about where you end up.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com/agent.

>> [music]

>> Our [music] scripture of the day comes from 1 Peter 4:8.

Above all, love each other deeply because love [music] covers a multitude of sins. Tina Fey said, "There are no mistakes, only opportunities." Thank you, Tina Fey. What a What an original, you know?

>> She's a a poet and a comedian. >> We We love We love Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. All right, let's head to Phoenix, where we're going to be next week. Hi Emily, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. What are you doing next Tuesday night, Emily?

I'm not sure, probably working. Probably

working, okay. Well, we'll have Christian pick up at the end of the call and if you are open, I thought we I think Yeah, we can snag you two seats to our Ramsey Show Live.

>> the Mesa Arts Center, April 21st, 7:00

p.m. We can even have you at VIP at 5:00 if you're free. >> Oh my goodness, that'd be amazing. Okay.

>> Okay, stay on the line, Christian will pick up. We'll get you some tickets. >> Rachel makes dreams come true. >> Hey Emily, I did this two weeks ago.

John John Delony and I were hosting and a guy called in from Charlotte and I said, "We're going to be there next week in Charlotte." And he's like, "Really?" So I got him two tickets, met him in the signing line. He said, "I said I'm going to give you the tickets too." So Emily, I hope I meet you next week. >> Outrageous generosity. Yes, George won't be there, but Jade Warshaw and John Coleman will be. But All right, Emily, how can we help today?

Okay, um so right now, I'm a massage therapist. I make about 58,000 annually,

um but I'm currently $65,000 in debt. Mhm. Um right now, we the last

six months we've been staying at my mother-in-law's house just um save some money and get caught up. But um I just recently found out that there's um the house cuz it's an older house, so it's covered in like mold. So we're trying to we're trying to we need to get out as soon as possible. But my main concern um

so in 2018, um I went in with my family and we bought a multi-generational house, but then um of course things ended up in

badly. So um we all like two people are

are living there currently, but the other um we all left but my main concern

is that I was [clears throat] I brought it up to get refinanced to possibly them buying me out but they're just not budging at all or even to like if we could sell the home and each split it the three ways but yeah they're just not budging at all so I'm just kind of I don't know what I can do. >> Is that the $65,000 in debt is the home situation or is that above?

>> yeah that's a different thing that that's my own some is in 43 I think it's in credit cards and $9,000 personal loan and then also I believe it's $13,000 for my car loan.

Okay. >> Was there an agreement when you guys bought this home of how this all works?

>> yeah we didn't sign it on paper but essentially we were supposed to get the get the home and then the next person was like there was three different families.

And then the next person we were going to get the equity for another home and then that one would build equity and we'd get another so essentially we thought we were going to have three different homes but it didn't end up panning out that way. >> So you guys are just riding on vibes right now and it's just well we don't want to do that and we didn't sign anything.

There's still $250,000 left the home currently is $425,000

worth. Mhm. And what's the plan for the people that are living there now what what are they saying?

They're just saying mostly mainly my mother she just doesn't she thinks it should be a forever home that all the cuz I have four sisters so it's like all of us They ain't living forever in a in a mold covered home I'll tell you that much. I mean it's going to crush her health does she not understand that? Oh no so it's currently my my mother-in-law's is the one that >> has the mold. Yeah yeah. There she's the the other home is different okay got you.

Okay and you're married Emily How much do you guys bring home a month, you and your husband combined?

Um, I make 58. I believe he makes 50 as

well, but right now he's like our finances are separate. He's trying to pay off his stuff while we're at his mother's, and then I'm trying to pay off my stuff. Okay, how much What kind of debt does he have? Um, he also has a car loan himself, and then he also has, I believe, $9,000 in credit card. Okay, why are you guys doing it separately?

I And that That's always been that way.

We I don't think we've ever combined >> Combined money. How How long have you guys been married?

Um, we've been married um 2023, but

we've been together for 13 years. Okay.

Um, well, what I would probably do

if I were you guys, I'm trying to think, your cars, loans, everything.

Um, what What did you rack up $43,000 of credit card debt with?

Um, well, I have two small children, and it was just like um one thing after another. He had lost his job for like 2 years, so it was just trying to So, he lost his job for 2 years. Your Your ex-husband or your current husband?

Um, my current husband. And you helped float his financial life. Yes.

>> But, we're not combining finances, only when he needs help.

Yeah. Okay.

So, what I would do, Emily, is that this is a bigger question. It's more of a shift in the relationship. But, what we find, couples who work together and say, "Hey, this is our household income. Here are our household bills.

Your debt is my debt." Like, we're we're in this financial life together. They

win faster. They get out of debt faster.

They build wealth faster. When you're trying to do your own thing, it's going to take you both longer. But, when you have synergy, not only from a mathematical perspective, but also a teamwork perspective, um it does It It just goes so much faster. So, that's a really big conversation cuz you guys have done your own thing for about 15 years with money. Yes. But what I would do I would I would I would really yeah, I would push you guys to combine

and and work together and you guys will list out your debts together, you know, like his his $9,000 in credit card debt, your $9,000 personal loan together you guys like make a plan and say hey, what if we lived on 60 grand and we had 40 45,000 dollars,

you know, this year to pay off debts, you know, what could we knock out and you start together doing a plan and and

you guys could be out of debt in two two and a half years if you really really focused on this, but you couldn't do that separately. You would be slowly

doing it cuz you're paying some bills over here. He's paying some, so It's all disjointed right now. >> Yes. So I would yeah, I I would have a a relationship conversation and combine your money.

Got it. Okay. And what is your share of the house that you co-own? How much would you actually get if they bought you out? Um I'm really just asking I'm just the 43,000 for credit card.

Um I own a third of the the mortgage and the deed.

So yeah, so you own a third of the house. If they were to buy you out, how much would you net?

Um I just wanted the 43 is what I just asked for. I don't I don't know I'm not sure. You just want the 43 even though you own more of it.

Exactly. Okay. >> Just want to get out of what Well, I mean the one thing you can do is to get a real estate attorney and you can do something called a partition action where a court can order and force the sale of the home, uh but you need to kind of get some details down. What's the home actually worth? Get the home appraised and then what's your share?

How much are you wanting? And then present a formal written buyout offer cuz right now nothing has been written down. It's all just messy dysfunctional family dynamics.

>> continue to get messier as time goes on, honestly, Emily. So, organization is your best friend right now.

That includes getting on the same page with your husband, combining the finances, attacking your debts as one.

That will help all of this.

All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.

>> Absolutely, Emily. Thanks for the call.

Yes, thank you. Um yeah, that's Yeah, hold on the line, too, Emily, if you're still there, and we can see if we can get you tickets to Phoenix, and bring your husband. This is a perfect way to get on the You know what? Ask your question Hey, our finances are separate. Yeah.

>> Here's why. And have the jury weigh in on the stage. >> there, too. We can all talk it out in the Ramsey Show Live.

This is why we love this event. Um but it was so kind. >> and Rachel can solve pretty much any quandary. So kind.

>> I believe in you guys. >> but this is the um this is the warning call of when people co-mingle from a family perspective, real estate. They have this dream that hey, let's buy a piece of land, we'll plot it out, and everyone can build a home. Well, when one person >> seven homes one day.

>> And when when when one person wants to move out of state cuz the spouse, you know, got a job, and they got to sell their home to a stranger, it messes up the whole thing. Or or this, you know, we're all going to go in on a home together, and you can have this equity, I'll have this, and it's going to be great. Um Will it though?

>> on zero fingers how many calls we've gotten where like, "This was the biggest blessing in my life that I co-owned it with my mother-in-law, my sister." I know. >> three of them want out, one of them doesn't. It's a nightmare. [music] >> nightmare.

And so, yep, just a just a warning, you guys, for all of [music] that. But, uh George, great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth, and thank you everyone for listening.

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## 175. The Ramsey Show (June 9, 2023)


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foreign

live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving in storage Studio this is the

Ramsey show where we help people win in

their life specifically their money their relationships and their work I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by fellow Ramsay

personality my esteemed colleague George Campbell it is always good to be with you I threw in the esteem today I've never felt more esteemed well we haven't been on together in a while due to our busy life schedule so it's always good to be in the in the studio with uh the

one and the only George Campbell energy is palpable it's palpable the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five George

is ready I'm ready and I think Sammy might be ready in Orlando Florida Sammy how can we help hey guys how y'all doing we are having a blast already what's going on love to hear it hey um I'm just calling to ask advice on what I should do regarding wanting to start a business um I currently work at a hotel I fold laundry and I do room service making 13 an hour and um I am 17 going to my senior year

next year and I just wanted some advice on how to

go about that and how to introduce it to my family yeah tell me about the business of the business um it's a great on demand business run through Etsy using an AI image generator to make the designs so you basically tell the AI what you want to create it creates it for you you sell those designs on Etsy

um and make the profit because there's no production costs have you tested this yes I have and how's it going oh it's good I um I started okay well last week I

actually uploaded products and started making I haven't made any sales but I

have gotten a lot of visits I think so far 76 visits to my website so how much money everybody else

has it sold anything yet okay so what a

week into this test real fresh yeah yeah very fresh yeah and so it's interesting uh you said how do I tell my family or how do I talk to my family about it which leads me to believe that you're nervous about something or maybe even fearful is this true yeah definitely um it's just that my parents never went to college so it's like when they were raising us they were really strong on getting good grades um doing well in school so you can go to college to work a 95 a safe job and

honestly I just don't feel like that's the route for me if that makes sense I understand that but I think we need to separate you trying this Etsy business from this big giant conversation about your path in life yeah and separate the two so are you still in high school yeah yeah um I just I just finished junior year okay good so you've got another year of high school to begin to

uh to think about how you're going to have this conversation with Mom and Dad and and and and and I'm going to give you some thoughts on that but this idea of just telling Mom and Dad that I've launched at Etsy business I don't is there any tension there just telling them hey I started doing this we're trying it I've mentioned it to them and I did tell them that

I started uploading products but I could tell they were a little iffy about it and um like it wasn't really like they weren't really happy I guess what was their objection if any oh um they didn't say anything specifically but it's just the way they responded to it they didn't seem like um there was like that like that good of an idea I guess you could say well

first of all that stinks and it hurts right yeah let's just be honest anytime we tell our parents something I mean I'm I'm in my 40s and if my mom and dad are going don't get excited about something I feel a little tinged there you know and truthfully they probably don't fully understand it I think that's and that's kind of the like tilt head question mark they understand

if you go to an office job and you have a title they can tell their friends about it's harder to go oh he has he has an Etsy have you heard of etsy he's got an Etsy shop and he does these t-shirts it's harder to explain and it doesn't make them look as good yeah and so that part I wouldn't get hung up on yeah I think

you ought to spend more time trying to figure out how to get more traffic and then George you actually have some background with this uh I'm I'm just I'm putting you on the spot because you can handle it George but he's had 76 visits to the site that's not a lot and he hasn't sold anything yet what's he looking for because you've done digital marketing you've been a marketer

and you've also got some technology Savvy what do you think well number one you're reliant on Etsy and the way the Etsy game is played is it's kind of a pay to play to show up in the top rankings so here's what's going to happen Sammy there's going to be a lot of competition in the AI space now you're not the only guy out there who's had

the creative idea to do AI print on demand I think it's a great idea let me just put that out there you could probably do really well with it but you've got to have a long-term game plan of what happens when there's 30 000 people who are also doing print on demand who have more money and resources and talent and time than you so yeah pursue it

but I wouldn't go putting my eggs in the basket until I go I have a for six months straight I've increased my revenue and this is enough for me to actually create a profitable business long term yeah Sammy my advice on this is and George is right so taking George's advice your mindset needs to be I'm going to pursue this to learn from it not pursue it to get rich from

it and that's going to change your expectations just learn everything you can learn there's no risk here you've already outlined that if you've got a good head on your shoulders now let me transition very quickly to having this very big and

important conversation with Mom and Dad over the next year because you're you're a rising senior um Mom and Dad's want the best for their

kids and when Mom and Dad are afraid

that the choices their kids are making aren't the best ones that's when they have the highest objection you understand that don't you see me yeah definitely okay so telling Mom and Dad

this is what I'm doing

deal with it and I'm not suggesting you're going to go that route but even just laying it out that way even with the sweetest of tone they're they're going to get really fearful and so my advice to young people uh in this

situation where you go I don't think college is for me let's go find out for sure if College is not a necessary path so two questions for you that you need to answer for yourself before we talk to Mom is is college the only way to do what I think I want to do is it the best way if the answers clearly no then we've got some real anecdotal evidence

we could sit down with Mom and Dad and we're very thoughtful and they can see you've done your homework and you show them an alternate path so for instance if you want to get into coding and you go hey Mom and Dad I can go to a coding school for twenty thousand and be done in nine

months uh or or whatever versus go to a

school that I can't afford and they begin to see oh Sammy's got a clear path it makes sense it's got a nice trajectory for him financially long term and he's figured out an alternate way besides a college degree to get there and it's a proven way George now all of a sudden I think Mom and Dad are like okay this isn't some big scary you've

presented us yeah when you actually go I'm creating a great income from this and I don't have any college debt to show for it with some useless degree I think they're going to respect you even if they don't approve of the path and it's not what they would have done that's okay but I think you coming at this respectfully going I don't want to waste a lot of time

and money pursuing this I'm going to get an education in a different way I want a pursue entrepreneurship they may have some ideas and go great let's get you a business degree just to get another another notch in the belt yeah I think parents support George is commensurate to how clear your plan is and they can

see aha this is doable and they mean the

best so don't let them get you down they're actually trying to protect you he's George Campbell I'm Ken Coleman this is the Ramsay show your calls we're right around the corner

[Music] foreign

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[Music]

welcome back America you are listening to the Ramsey show where we are here for

you it's your show America we're answering your questions so that you can win in your money in your relationships and your work all three of those areas of our life are tied together if you're losing in one of those areas it is going to impact the other it's just a simple fact I'm Ken Coleman joined by George camel we are here for you this hour the phone number is toll-free jump in at triple eight eight two five five two two

five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five I wanna go to you George here because I saw you did this uh you did a little poll uh

on on the gram on the gram and here was

the question for the poll I love it I said if you're a credit card user what is the biggest thing holding you back from getting rid of the cards all right that's how I posed the question I got tons of responses how many people responded to you uh a few hundred at least all right so this is anecdotally this is science basically this yes that's right and

I got a lot of the natural responses that we've gotten for 30 years right it's the points the cash back the rewards I love getting my free flight I need it to to book hotels and rent cars and I got to keep up my credit score so I can get a house and get car loans and all these things but the one that shocked me Ken uh-huh a lot of people said fear fear of just fear that's why

I dug in I did I

dm'd I said tell me more about that elaborate yes because that means a lot of things to a lot of people some people did admit they said hey this is a safety blanket it's a crutch I if something

goes wrong I know I'm covered with my line of credit thanks to 28 interest from the credit card company so what a blessing right but I wanted you to address this idea of fear because you've been leading a financial peace class virtually and this has come up a lot yeah when it comes to the thousand dollar emergency fund scares me I can't cut up the card because what

if what if what if right there's so much fear and some of it stems from their childhood they told me hey I grew up poor we grew up not having money oh we grew up or if one paycheck didn't show up we were screwed yeah and so I have a lot of empathy for those that have that fear but you've talked a lot about this on your show whether it's career or money fear is holding people back in a whole lot of ways yeah well a couple things on that most of

the time if you actually look at the data the things that we worry about which is another placeholder for fear you know because I think fear is defined as I'm worried that something bad is going to happen I just think that's the way I define fear and I think that's really true and so most of the time the things we worry about rarely happen so let's just that's just some basic psychology study right

there where they like the things we worry about most of the time never actually happen so there's that the second thing is is that

people are afraid that they're going to be destitute broke so far behind the eight ball that they never recovered that they forget that the credit card is going to hit them for 28 percent versus and let's give you a real life example let's say an HVAC system goes out okay because this is one of the things that popped up on our FPU class I've got an old HVAC system I'm gonna have to replace it it's on its last leg I don't want to be in the house all summer in sweltering heat not be able to

sleep and by the way I get all that I don't minimize any of that it's like yeah I get it all right so they think the credit card then is the safety net so if we have to put eight grand into an HVAC system or six grand or whatever it is well we put it on the credit card no problem but now we're paying 28 interest as opposed to going the HVAC company and going hey here's my situation here's my

financials I need this HVAC system we're

we're stuck so we either are with ceiling fans and you know and just fans or whatever we're gonna or we've or replaces let's say it's in the winter time and you go to the HVAC company and go listen I can cash flow this and I will cash flow it you know and just having a human conversation with somebody yeah but just relying on the credit card puts

you in more stress and more problems because while you take care of the immediate need you're stuck with it for a long time and so I think it depends George on the specific fear uh but a lot of people just feel like I'm not going to be able to be comfortable and take care of my life and uh Les who was on with me or one of our FPU coaches

we talked about AC going in my car one time it went and

this is when we first lived here in Nashville the first time and we were working the baby steps and I couldn't afford I could have but I

didn't want to stop the momentum so George I got up earlier and drove into the office an hour earlier so that I wasn't sweating profusely to get into the office that's okay at the end of the day it didn't matter I was going home and then one day I was driving home George and insult to injury I came up to a stoplight and was almost like uh

the debt gods were trying to embarrass me I got no AC I'm sweating hair all over the place because the windows are down and that I don't know what you call that your roof liner inside the car just all of a sudden detached out of nowhere and it was sitting on top of my head I felt it at a stoplight I look up and this way and

you know how embarrassing that is yeah because you think that everyone at the stoplight is going look at this loser over there it's a hundred degrees in Nashville he's got the roof interior

carpet hanging on his head I went home was so mad I got the staple gun out of the uh out of the storage that's therapeutic right there two Staples in the top took care of that problem and cost me nothing wow well what are you afraid of yeah you afraid of being embarrassed at the stoplight I get it that's a good question is you know a lot of people like to they're very optimistic

when it comes to their own stupidity they're they're going yeah we're gonna open the card will be great they're very optimistic when it comes to justifying their spending habits their decisions and very pessimistic when it comes to following a proven plan where they go yeah having a thousand bucks is scary and you should be scared and the problem is when you have the credit card still there

you have a false sense of security yes you have a false sense of comfort and the book The Comfort crisis you guys have been talking about this a lot with Dave I think we're too comfortable I think part of the reason America is where it is today yeah broke in debt anxious miserable stressed is because we're aiming for comfort and convenience and the easiest path the path of least resistance

the most convenient path instead of going dang it I really got to work that extra job to get out of debt even faster and that's what I love about baby step one I don't love that you're scared to death but I love that it puts a fire under you to go I wasn't safe ever I had the illusion of safety that's right and then once you have

the emergency fund and baby step three you got out of debt you don't need the credit card like but you don't understand that mentality of what if because I don't think that they've been taught this so I think this is like I want to tee you up to teach on this let's say that the thing happens we've

got a thousand dollars in baby step one but then a seven or eight or ten

thousand dollar or even a 1500 expense like oh it's not enough Ken yeah but my point is they're all worried about this big thing above and beyond a thousand dollars yeah what do you teach what would you tell them if you're sitting one-on-one with them and go okay this is seven eight thousand you only got a thousand what are their options well number one we say pause

the baby steps right if you've got kind of a storm and in that case we're gonna we're gonna pay all the minimums on the debt so we're gonna cover the basic bills everything else all the luxuries throughout the window right now because we gotta sell everything we can work as much as we can to find that Gap to make that margin once you've got that expense covered or back on track we're attacking

the debt and in most situations uh I've seen they

end up not needing the full thousand or they pause it and they end up cash flowing it and make sure you have the right Insurance in place this is something we teach because most emergencies you know Health Emergency you're going to have up to your deductible and then you're covered right and your auto insurance make sure you've got the right coverage there these kinds of things help me sleep at night to make sure that I'm covered in case of something crazy happening

but a lot of times it's psychological and it's them justifying why they want to keep the card around Georgina the old phrase where there's a will there's a way in other words it means you know if I'm willing to figure it out I'll find a way do you poke holes in that when it comes to this very scenario or do you believe that that holds true I'll find a way to not use a credit card I'll find a way to pay

it off I'll find a way but I'm not going to use a credit card for an emergency well when you take debt off the table if you just in your mind pretend and go credit cards are not an option debt is not an option what would I do if this was the 1930s and debt wasn't marketed as heavily as it is today what would I do you'd go all right I'm gonna go sell some stuff I'm gonna go get

the side job I'm gonna cut down all my expenses to Bare Bones I'm going to work out a plan a payment plan with the HVAC guy to pay this thing off and we're going to figure it out so my challenge to everyone out there is could you live 90 days without using your credit card put it in ice in the freezer lock it up somewhere stick to a debit card in cash

and for 90 days and

DM me if you're going to do this challenge I want to report back 90 days from now and see how it changes you financially spiritually emotionally if it gets you further down the line to where you want to be financially wow I love that George it's a good challenge at George Campbell on the ground right there with a K don't wear it out and if you're over

the age of 50 that means Instagram thank you for that caveat there you go all right hey uh we gotta take a quick break but I mean it is quick and when we come back more of your calls they're lining up this is the Ramsay show [Music]

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the Ramsey Show continues I'm Ken Coleman joined by George Campbell the phone number to jump in this hour is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five paying off dead is smart saving and investing is smart but there's another key to winning with money that a lot of people Overlook and that is protecting your finances from emergencies

and that's where insurance comes into play George you love you some insurance I really do I don't know why it's fascinating to me yeah you've always really been good at this content and uh and so there's 10 kinds of insurance coverage George that I know you know uh that you might need and we've got out of two it feels like thousands so we've really curated the only ones

you need to think about you always make me laugh if I ever need a good laugh I could just walk over to your desk and I could say George tell me about a ridiculous insurance coverage and you would say falling coconut Insurance that's real that's a real Insurance do I

want to buy it yeah do I need it no I

just want to be able to tell my friends yeah hey get that falling coconut Insurance yeah this is a real problem in some countries Ken it really is it's not making the headlines it would be a great lead-in to you announcing to your friends and family you were going on a Caribbean vacation maybe you guys have

fallen coconut insurance for the Bermuda trip yeah yeah want to make sure everybody's prepared you don't need that one well you don't need that one but we've got you covered um the coverage checkup is is a great tool that we've built for you and it's going to tell you the types you need to add drop or adjust we even rank your coverage by importance email it to

you and connect you with a Ramsay trusted insurance provider so that you can make the changes or the additions that you need and this only takes about five minutes one of our

users wrote in his name is Donald he

goes uh for anyone who has not completed this checkup do it now you never know when something will happen and you never want to leave your family in a bad situation we agree Donald so go to ramseysolutions.com checkup that's ramseysolutions.com checkup final word

on that George uh I was just thinking

about some calls we took last week that were real sad because people didn't have the right Insurance in place medical Auto not the right liability coverage all those things matter so double check it today absolutely all right let's go to David who joins us now in Dallas Texas David how can we help hey you can't hit George thanks for taking my call you bet I have a question

with some of the excess income that I have so um just for some background I'm uh just about 27 years old um and I'm through all the baby steps

through step four I should say no debt I've got about ten thousand dollars and a savings account that's essentially my emergency fund and um in terms of other

Investments that I have i max out my retirement uh max out in HSA I'm

actually at a stock purchasing program through my employer you guys don't necessarily like that but we'll get to that a little bit later um and so uh after all of those uh

allocations um I take home roughly forty six hundred dollars a month and when you take out expenses uh I expect to be left with

something around forty four thousand dollars for the year that I um I just

don't really have anything and so that I necessarily need to do with it um I'm single don't have kids I don't have a house so I pay rent that rents about 1200 bucks a month and so I'm just curious uh what you guys's opinion is about what I should do with that Surplus did you say your take-home pay was 4400

yeah it's about yeah 4 600 a month but

then you said you have excess essentially 3 600 a month

how does that work if your rent alone is 1200.

the numbers just weren't adding up for me the I have 4 600 a month that I take

home um after all those deductions that I just mentioned and then rent is about oh sorry I should mention too that I have about eight thousand dollars that I get in income um from Investments uh that I've made so it's really about uh 3 600 that I get from work um uh from that 4 600 and then for the year I get another eight thousand dollars so that's not just from your income okay correct so do you are you a

homeowner currently is that a goal for you I'm not a homeowner currently I would say that a home is probably not in the picture for at least another uh three

years okay why is that is that a job

lifestyle lifestyle more than anything else um I like where I live I live around a lot of friends and family um and uh specifically in the section that I live in homes are fairly expensive and uh I just I like the

situation I'm in right now okay well my

next goal for you if you're walking through the baby steps you don't have kids your single would be to pay off a home early and it's a great part of your wealth building journey and so I'd recommend you're in a great spot to be able to do that sooner rather than later and if you've seen home prices three years ago versus today A lot of people are going goodness gracious

if I had the money I wish I bought three years ago so that's my only concern for you is that home prices are a moving Target in three years from now especially in your area they're going to be astronomically more expensive but outside of that you just get to live give and uh you know if you want to upgrade the car you want to increase the emergency fund you're doing all

the right things you've got this savings and investing muscle down I want to see you Flex it more in the giving and spending side my guess is you don't spend a whole lot of money foreign maybe a little more than you would expect I definitely enjoy uh going to sporting events and doing some traveling so there is some income there anything that happens there but uh it's not hugely

it doesn't put a big dent um in My overall uh income good well I

would set some goals right now with your goal list and if just the goal is investing for the future that's fine you can park it in some index funds if you've got a home purchase down the line but I would want to put it down on a house sooner rather than later for sure yeah thanks for the call David all right let's go to Los Angeles next John is

there John how can we help hey gentlemen how's it going oh we're having a blast John what what can we do for you hey um so I'm on babysat 3 my wife and I

um on 30 she's 27.

um we're we just paid off a hundred thousand dollars in debt and um yeah um so we're aiming to have our three months by September nice but really just

you know after the pandemic trying to have vision for our life longer term I wanted to ask you know for the early baby stop baby step adopters what do you

suggest to do as a gap fund um for those who want to semi-retire in their early 50s or mid 50s since you can't take out of a 401k until 59 and a half good question okay so we'll call that work optional where you get to choose what you do how much you work uh versus I got to keep this job because I need the money correct yeah yeah well so I would max out all retirement options first which would be you know your 401ks IRAs hsas

all of that stuff and beyond that what people use in order to do that is called the taxable brokerage account so this is just money outside of retirement that you invest and let's say you're 50 and you're not going to be able to tap into the 401K till 59 and a half you've got to have enough money in that account to tide you over for nine and a half years

and that's very dependent on your your goals your lifestyle your expenses all of that so you've got about 20 years to plan that out which is great yeah now let me just tell you something John what do you think you think you're just gonna not work and all of a sudden have plenty to do uh there are a lot of retirees that are getting back into it

because it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be so I love the strategy and it gives you options my friend but as you get to that

age uh know that um you need to be very

very active and even with Hobbies you might want to be doing something more productive and just keep that in mind we've got a lot of these these young people and I'm not saying it's his situation but you're familiar with this this financially independent retire early big movement and this is not John Let's be very clear but a lot of them are they're working crazy hours I mean give them credit crazy work ethic

but they're working to try to make a certain Nest Egg by 40 and never work again and we're beginning to see some of the leaders of that movement who have already announced uh they either get bored or go back to work right and uh there's there's something to that this idea of being productive and doing something and I like how you called it work optional what does that look like what does that feel like

but I'd rather sink my teeth into something I love for the next 20 years instead of something I hate in order to retire early yeah and here's what I want people to understand we're all about investing so you have options but I think retirement as a I'm never gonna work again is overrated there's a lot on Netflix to catch up on Ken Financial Peace is not overrated

and options are not and and our investment strategy is going to get you there all right good stuff all right don't move more of your calls coming up this is the Ramsay show [Music]

thank you [Music]

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foreign

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by my colleague George Campbell the phone number to jump in on the conversations triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna talk about your money we'll talk about your relationships and your work because all of those are just very very

relevant to you having a peaceful and

successful life triple eight eight two five five two two five Amarillo Texas is

where Manny joins us Manny how can we help hey guys thanks for taking my call but I'm just really torn and kind of stressed about the situation I'm in

um just to give you guys a little background I just graduated college last December I played football in college had a pretty successful career there and

uh Fort Hayes it's a D2 yeah in Hayes Kansas receiver nice all right George doesn't

understand any of that we just I'm learning so I'm taking frivolous notes but I find to be interesting and I'm trying to bring him along when I can anytime we can talk sports on the show it's good for George it's a touchdown yeah there you go yeah but uh I had a

pretty successful college career so I gave him my best shot at the NFL ended up talking to some Scouts and everything and um short short story basically didn't end up making it didn't end up getting a call so now I'm I'm back home I've been

applying to some jobs and now I'm kind of torn between should I do um a Commission job or should I do I've applied to both um jobs I've gotten a job offer in Dallas commission um financial advisor and I think I think that would be awesome I think I would do great at that but my parents don't know

if that's the greatest decision um why I don't have um just because the rent there is super expensive um and honestly I don't have much money to my name right now um and but at the same time you know there's no commissioned cab but there's no there's no base and that's kind of why they're they're really worried right now and I got a job offer somewhere else

that's just 50 000 annually and um I

don't know if I should just take the 50 000 that way I know what I'm making or if I should bet on myself um my parents said they would help me with the rent a few months but at the same time you know I don't want them I'm 23 years old so I don't want them to be yeah worrying about me you know I feel like I should be worried about myself well my colleague George Campbell is there's no one better on

the planet to address this whole rent issue all right so I'm gonna bring George in a second but I'm going to focus in on what I heard and what I heard was option A

as you presented to us two job opportunities option A is a job that you

described in detail and you described with great excitement and then you told us about Job B but I know nothing about it other than it offers you a fifty thousand dollar base and so when I listen to that it makes it very clear to me tell me if I'm wrong that the job in Dallas that is in the financial advising investing space you're genuinely excited about it and even though it's straight Commission the athlete in you the competitor in you

you want to give that a shot and B

option b literally when you think about it your soul starts to seep out of one of your ears that's the what I'm hearing is this true or false that is very true but the reason I feel like that for option b is because you know I can work there for 10 or 10 uh 10 years and then get a five thousand dollar raise well it's still you know like I'll never be financially stable

if I do look at that it doesn't matter what your reason is the point is we have some real enthusiasm and fire for option A and if Mom and Dad uh uh are willing to

help you and you can swallow your pride for a couple months uh until you figure it out I'm open to that but this is where I want to bring Georgia and George I mean I get what Mom and Dad are saying Dallas is expensive or certainly more expensive than Amarillo but I think he's got more options than he realizes where he may not even have to tap mom and dad's money for a couple of months yeah so what would rent be for on your own

we're looking about fourteen fifteen hundred dollars okay what about a two bedroom where you get a roommate uh I don't currently know anyone in Dallas I've thought about that um yeah okay I think that's it we can overcome that with mutual friends and Facebook groups and all kinds of things and good vetting you're not going to have a crazy roommate but let's say you had a great roommate and you got a two bedroom for what 1600 1700

yeah probably about 17. great now your rent is 8.50 and now we can reasonably even if we don't make a hundred thousand dollars the first year we're able to afford that and could you work nights and evenings while you get your book of business going for your financial advising role

yeah yes sir and when when do they want you to start

um second week in July so how much money if we worked our tails

off could we make between now and moving to Dallas where you've got yourself set up for two to three months we're not even asking mom and dad for money could you do that

um yeah I could do that I mean it's coming pretty quick maybe a few weeks but I could I could probably gather up some money for sure I'm just saying man you're an athlete do you have any debt yeah go work hard I got school for free

yeah amazing you got no debt let's get a little pile of money for some moving expenses and to you know get settled in I'm telling you man George he can make a thousand two thousand bucks between Selling Stuff doing stuff working like crazy at least I'm gonna challenge you that uh to do that Manny here's the other question I have that I want George to hear uh on

this money and budgeting thing as you get started is this a true straight commission gig or are they going to give you some type of a very small base or is it straight Commission

something that I really like is that it's you broke up is it straight Commission

it's straight commission okay and then what are they telling you as what they believe if you do things the way they train you what do they think uh your ramp up period looks like to where you actually start making your first commission what are they telling you

um a couple months until I make actual money but um I projected first year is

94 so I don't know just like you said the athlete in me just wants to go for it and work my tail off you listen you

tried out for the NFL from a D2 football program I understand uh what kind of a leap that is I'm not

worried about you and I think you tell Mom and Dad look I'm betting on myself Mom and Dad I'm gonna be fine I'm not gonna end up under a bridge and I think George gave you some very good tactics here George and I think I think if he saves up some money he really works hard to try to find a roommate or here's one why don't you try to find a a an old lady in Dallas who's got a room over a garage like Matt Damon in

The Rainmaker I mean this is possible I'm serious you can get creative for sure if you want it badly enough I'm the guy who moved across the country with the hopes starting here at Ramsey Solutions as an intern and attempt and I I think you're going to look back with a regret if you don't do this that's exactly right so and keep in mind we put a restraining order on George for a while

but it was a thing after it was lifted he finally made it here uh you know George this is I love this thank you for the call uh Manny we really believe in you and I think there's a lot of Manny's out there right there really are and and and I love where again you just said look there is a way to figure out how to not get

the nicest brand newest shiniest most expensive apartment where all the hipsters are at at the pool you know and when I first moved here I was way out of town I wasn't close to downtown Nashville I had a roommate or two I got

my rent low my expenses were low I wasn't going out to eat every weekend you remember the numbers uh roughly yeah I want to say when I first moved here it was like 1200 bucks and so my rent was 600 uh it was an old friend from college

that had also a lot of times you're gonna say an old fart the way it was an old fart no I didn't live with an old person I would I think it'd be great to live with an elderly folk it would be you wouldn't have to worry about noise no they'd always go there before 9 30 after they're watching Murder She Wrote I would watch Golden Girls reruns with him I'm an old soul

but there's a great lesson there if Manny wants it badly enough he's gonna figure it out and that is absolutely what we're saying here and uh what are your thoughts on Mom and Dad you know we don't know the situation I don't want to project too much on them but again we were talking about fear earlier in this hour mom and dad have a healthy dose of fear

when Manny goes I want to go to Dallas and I want to do this and it comes from a good place yeah a lot of the times it's not toxic they just want their kid to be successful whether it's for their own reputation or because no one wants to see their kid fail yeah they don't want to see their kids struggle yeah but I think them letting him experience

this whether he fails or not is the healthiest thing they can do I think that's true so good all right young man thank you Manny again for the call I love this and this is a guy who went for it for the NFL he's not worried about failing I'm not I'm not getting in his way no physically or career-wise good idea George hey uh George Campbell good hour

I want to thank James the entire crew behind the glass to keep us on the air I want to thank you America this is your show this is the Ramsay show

foreign [Music] hey it's Ken if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey win go to ramseysolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsesolutions.com to sign up for our Weekly Newsletter [Music]

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thank you live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving and storage Studio this is the Ramsey Show it's where we help people win with their money their work and

their relationships I'm Ken Coleman George Campbell joins me this hour it is a free phone call for you to jump in and that's what we do we coach you we counsel you we cheer you on Triple eight

eight two five five two two five eight

eight two five five two two five you ready to go George are you game on like Donkey Kong you got the uh you you you you yeah it just has some Roots I got the green tea with honey as well and uh so I'm ready to go as well let's go to Megan in Des Moines Iowa Megan how can we help

hi um I think he might call you bet

about eighty thousand dollars in student loan debt that's all of my debt

um and about about forty thousand dollars of that is in private loans one of my loans is twenty thousand

dollars so that's a lot of breaking down but that loan is my smallest loan at

twenty thousand three hundred dollars my concern is is that the interest rate just went up again to 11.25 percent I got an offer to yeah I got an offer to

refinance my private loans

and it would refinance it to a rate of

7.25 okay and I was just wondering I

know that interest rate isn't always the end-all be-all of it but that's a huge jump yeah wow so here's how we view

student loan refinancing now generally we're not a fan of refinancing because it kind of makes you feel like you did something but student loan refinancing can be a good move and I'll tell you the parameter so check off these boxes as I say them out loud right number one it's free to make the change no application fees origination charges whatever fees they want to throw in their no fees number two you've got to keep a fixed rate or move from variable to fix you said it's a fixed rate currently

great another box check checked off there then you've got to keep the same term or shorten it is that the case with this one um yeah I'm not quite sure how long my current one is but it would be going to a five-year term okay then in that case I would go through with it in order to uh chop down some interest without causing you any further Financial damage here without and without losing any gazelle intensity because you want to pay this thing off really fast yeah my I'm excited my if I have all my

numbers right I should have the twenty thousand dollar ones paid off by the end of this year love it and so I'm that was part of it if it would still be worth it if I'm going to be paying it off by the end of 2023.

year old divorced um single mom my daughter's 22 she just graduated college my um question is I owe 84 000 on a

mortgage my salary is 39 000. and

um I do have some 10 000 in a Roth and

uh a 401k

my concern is and my reason I'm calling is

I'm terrified that I'm not going to be able to retire and pay off my house at

my age I feel like I'm basically starting over um yeah I you know I work second jobs

um I just don't know how to get ahead

um and also my main question is do I

when I do work second jobs do I put that money in savings or do I work on paying

off the mortgage that's my first question George before we dive in on this uh Connie I'm curious to know what you're making what is your income in in your main job and then what are you bringing in in these second jobs give us a snapshot at 39

000. what do you do my full-time job I am Terry okay all right and then what are you bringing in from the second job so you know give us an example it varies um yeah if

Care Home Health Care I've done I also

do some crafting where that's kind of closer to Christmas I you know bring in some extra money that way um I I am looking at

um and I love your opinion on this um I do QuickBooks at my job and I was

thinking of possibly doing that

part-time on my own like maybe picking

up I think you could do that full-time and double your income I I yeah let me give you an ex I was looking at this today George uh Connie I was reading this today before the show I was looking at what is the current list of some of the best paying part-time jobs and bookkeeping is one of them and in certain places now again you got to kind of see what

the lay of the land is in Allentown but you can make as much as forty dollars an hour uh doing bookkeeping part-time Connie that's good money yeah and George

is right you could transition into a role like that because because there's just so many opportunities for you right now and that's why I wanted to start here because George is going to walk you through the answers to your questions but I'd like to see you increase your income in in meaningful ways not like crafts

here and there but okay if I can work stand under 10 to 15 hours a week and

let's say I'm in that 20 to 40 dollars an hour range that's real money Connie and George is going to teach you how to use that so let's let's let's work on that that QuickBook skill and you could be able to take you could take several other classes or courses that you can cash flow that give you more opportunity to do freelance work like that and nobody cares how old

you are by the way right right right and you've got a lot of transferable skills even as a secretary you could do office management you could be an executive assistant you could do some of that virtually part-time and so I would get creative and get excited about what that could do for you as far as savings and retirement so to your question great do you have any money saved for emergencies currently

I do I do I have um well I have about 18

000 in savings ten thousand in a 401k and 7 000 in a rod okay so we've got a good start here what we need to do is continue down the path of investing for retirement so I would do 15 of your income regardless of what it is add in all your side income any part of your income 15 towards retirement then on top of that I would start chipping away at

the house with whatever's left right now may not be a lot but if you double your income let's have a goal for a few years from now we have no mortgage payment and we've built up a nice little Nest Egg so that we can have a dignified retirement that's my goal for Connie yeah and she can do it fantastic love I love it I think we should

we connect her to one of our financial coaches kind of helper I would love to do that let's do that Connie hang on the line we're going to take care of you and get you with one of our financial coaches that kind of pay for a session we're going to pay for a session and get you that jump start into what George told you because there is a way

and you can do it you aren't too old you've got plenty of time thank you so much Connie hang on the line for the rest of you don't move more Ramsey show coming up

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by my colleague George Campbell the phone number if you want to jump in on the conversation is triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five Raleigh North Carolina is where Peter Waits Peter how can we help

hey how are you guys doing today it's good to be on I think you guys are both really cool well let me tell you something I first I have three teenagers and they remind me all the time how cringy I am so I'm going to hold on to that the rest of the day thank you sir George on the other hand is always cool me means it's very rare that

this happens so thank you Peter how can we help you you're welcome yeah so my wife and I are on baby step two and we've actually kind of had to pump the brakes a little bit because we're having our Second Son in about a month hey so we've been able to save that's exciting I've been able to save about yeah we've been able to save about 3 000 extra dollars in preparation for that man

we were hitting the ground running good paying off stuff and we're like let's save up a little bit but actually I just want to make sure I'm on the right path here I'm hoping by the end of next year we'll be

debt free fully money uh fully funded emergency fund um I'm getting about a 50 000 raise in February wow that's amazing yeah what do

you currently I just wanted to know currently 70 000 so it's going to be bumped up to about 120. heck yeah Peter let's go buddy let's just pause for a moment what did you do to get that raise that's fantastic yeah so I'm actually a UPS driver no

kidding and yeah so from the third year

to the fourth year it's a pretty substantial raise I'm so glad that we asked and I'll tell you why because I want people to hear that you can make really good money wearing an all-brown outfit some great thick brown socks and driving a truck I mean that's a big deal that's good work man good for you yeah it's good hard work and it provides yeah for my wife good for you myself and our our two kids so I'm grateful good for you all right keep going Peter yeah so we're forty thousand in debt we have student loans personal loans HVAC loans credit cards and so my projection is we will be debt free hopefully by June of next year does that sound doable you think or they're a little house poor right now um and we knew kind of we would be um before we started the baby steps um it's a mortgage yep okay what's the payment on that so the mortgage is 1300 but um with Escrow in there that's another 600 with escrow rolled into it so it's about 19.

that's some serious escrow man yeah we had to get flood insurance and then homeowners insurance and then property tax so it's about 90 our mortgage about 1900 a month right now okay and what's your take-home pay currently yeah um 5200 a month right now all right and that's going to change drastically so right now you're at 36 percent of your take-home pay going towards that mortgage but

once you hit 120 you're going to be right on target so it's going to be tight but we know that raises coming on the horizon and uh you're still knocking out some debt along the way and can you work extra sure oh yeah yeah we can I I basically work as much as I possibly can um you know we have an 18 month old as well right now in

the trenches pregnant so

I work basically as much as she's okay

Peter you asked us yeah you said is this

sound right you know can we pay it off be debt free next June I think the question is for you what did you base that on how much money based on the amount of debt you have and the amount of money that you have said okay this is we're going to be able to put on each month the question is is it doable for you is it doable or have

you over projected no I think it's doable we were able to save I mean leading up to this moment we're able to save about an extra 1200 bucks a month um with our lifestyle um and then you know once the baby's born we can put all that towards dead or and then with that and then our lifestyle is not going to change once we get this pay raise

we want to get debt free and get that emergency you're going to do it and here's the deal I appreciate the question Peter the reason I brought it back up is because and George can speak to this too but when Stacy and I went through our debt free Journey stuff happened and you can put it on paper which is what you should do and you can project

and you can be disciplined and then stuff happens so if something happens and it ends up being August that doesn't matter what matters more is what you just said which is our lifestyle isn't going to change once I make more money we're committed to being debt free and I think that's what matters so yeah give yourself access but also what I like to do set a little a goal that scares me just a little bit towards

I don't know if we can make that but we're going to try I love that and then try to beat that as you get your feet under you that's usually what happens more often than not versus oh it took us a month longer and if it does yeah dude you're still debt free a month later right Peter uh I'm gonna turn the tables if it's okay with

you George has got his first child on the way yes Peter give me all the advice Peter you're about ready to have number two give George one piece of advice about parenting a newborn because he knows nothing what would you tell George

um just enjoy it oh honestly that's it man it's it a lot of people told me it's gonna be really hard but the love that you have for that baby just kind of outweighs how tough it is honestly beautifully sad Peter for the win that's as good as advice as you'll hear all day on the show I love that we turn the tables George oh we should do that more often

I think our listeners have a lot of wisdom to impart to us it's absolutely true all right let's go to New York City New York the Big Apple John is there John how can we help hey guys how you doing good what's going on I'm 24 years old uh I've managed to save

just under a hundred thousand dollars wow I have zero debt

making now um nearly 130 Grand a year

wow John slow clap for you my friend thank you appreciate it uh it's taking some sacrifice but I'm basically I'm just wondering if I do want to get my first real estate property uh morning if uh now's a now's a good time or if I should wait or you know I hear so many different things tell us about it give George the details is this a primary residence are

you wanting to get into real estate investing no so I still luckily live at home I have no payments on rent or anything which is why I've been able to save so much um okay I'm really not in a rush I mean you know it would be nice to live on my own but uh I do want to get it's my first property this will be a investment property okay

so why not get yourself a place oh I think I would you know I don't know I'm not uh I'm not in a rush to are you

living with your parents I am yes well I'll tell you something you're no loser okay everybody heard your story oh yeah but I mean either Mama's cooking is good or you're just cheap or maybe a combo what's the story it could be both yeah you're a numbers guy you're looking at this guy another thing is I'm not I'm not home all the time uh I I make good money

I work on ships so I'm gone almost half the year oh see okay that makes total sense okay all right yeah all right so you may not like my

advice but when it comes to buying real estate property as an investment we only recommend paying cash got it and that sounds as insane as it is because have you seen the world they're even more insane and they're broke and all the people out there on Tick Tock they're telling you to put as little down as possible and then rehab it and then do the HELOC and take the equity out and put it on another property dude these people have dead up to their eyeballs and they're freaked out that actually do this stuff the ones pitching it are making money from their online course of course so what I would tell you to do is if you're willing to do that in New York City is that right no I think it's too expensive here I'll probably go somewhere else uh I like Maine a lot it's cheaper up there because the other side of this coin is being a long long distance landlord is tough business so I would try to get something more local somewhere that you can actually go check out whenever you want to check in on the property and if that means we're getting the spot you know outside of the City by a half hour 45 minutes an hour so be it but I would move at the speed of cash so Wendy when is the right time to buy real estate investment property when you have the cash to do it however you can find a deal got it how old are you John 24.

you've already been able to put a hundred thousand dollars in the bank you're 24.

um now whether or not you choose to believe George or not he's right uh everybody tells you oh just use the bank's money blah blah blah riches Untold but here's the deal if you choose to believe George and do it the right way where you have no risk no stress

how much longer would it take you to get 200 000 more in the bank you're only 24.

it could be a multi-millionaire as a result of waiting five or six years or no expenses make no experiences just keep stacking the cash my friend and you're going to be way ahead of everybody else I promise wow that dude's impressive he's a hard worker I like that really good stuff George Campbell Ken Coleman with you right now we're gonna go away for just a few moments don't you go away this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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thank you [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by George Campbell the phone number to jump in on the conversation is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five the question of the day is brought to you by neighborly your hub for Home Services neighborly has local service providers to repair maintain and improve your home

I could put in there to keep Ken married because I can't do anything you know what I mean and so I need resources like this their network of experts offers top quality work and customer service by train reliable service providers find the help you need at neighborly.com today today's question comes from Alan in Ohio he writes I live

in an apartment but I'm looking to get a home in the next year to year and a half I work as a design engineer and currently make 25 bucks an hour I've got 25 000 in student loan debt to the government and I graduated in May of 2020.

looking for is actually pedigree because he goes to school and he gets an engineering degree right and so Engineers can command really good money not just in salary but in freelance

hourly rates and the freelance economy

is what it's being labeled as right now uh the gig economy is another term you hear it's just fancy language for it's a side hustle it's above and beyond my full-time job and and professional White

Collar skilled jobs have more freelance

opportunity than ever before George because of this weird economy we're in

where we have 10.1 million jobs available but only 8 million people unemployed so companies are also worried about recession and so they've cut back so instead of hiring a full-time employee they're looking for contract a

contractor and you've done this work before and in his situation where I would start the Practical advice is his top two or three skills is where he's looking as an engineer and he's he's separating those and he's going okay I'm really good at this this and this and so now he's looking out there where a freelancing opportunities because he brings credibility in that degree and everyday experience

and that's where he's going to get the biggest bang for the buck is actually his professional skills now he can do other things we're going to talk about in a minute for everybody but you you've done this out you actually did this and I wanted you to share this because you made really good money using your existing professional skills yes so first of all I was willing to do anything

and so I was driving for Uber and Lyft and doing some of the normal early adopter on that I got some sign-on bonuses when they first came to Nashville when Uber and Lyft wow so they gave me like a thousand bucks to do like three rides it was great so it was a great side money but beyond that I went I don't like driving strangers around it's not something

I enjoy can I find the side gig I enjoy doing that I'm good at that's when I went I've got marketing skills and I found this post I did Ken back in uh this is 2019 I was trying to save up for our downloads is this from your personal blog this is my personal blog my zanga page here's what it says if you need help with social media email marketing branding copywriting content creation website creation podcasting video audio production production keynote presentations DM me for Consulting work

and I got some great gigs helping small business owners authors speakers build websites and Squarespace I was making 1500 bucks a website 1500 bucks yeah and

were you using one of those uh the website in a box Squarespace yeah that's right so that was one I did marketing Consulting back in when I was getting rid of my Consumer Debt I think I made 23 Grand doing that part-time yeah nights and weekends very doable all right so let's let's also bring this down to summer jobs for kids trying to

make money for college teachers too people are trying to make extra money uh we've got a an article that we did at ramseysolutions.com we're not going to go through all of these and I've got some personal anecdotes stories here what I'm seeing uh young people do that can be done quite frankly by anybody uh but you mentioned Uber and and Lyft let's just say delivering food delivering groceries delivering people to places is still a very very accessible opportunity uh

now I will say this it comes with wear and tear on the car I've interviewed some of these drivers and I think George I've got to weigh it you got to weigh that like okay the wear and tear Insurance all that kind of stuff gas yes make sure that you're covered contact your auto insurance do not surprise them if you get in a wreck while driving for one of

these apps you may not be covered yeah don't say I didn't tell yourself uh okay here we go here's some creative things uh photographer uh tutoring uh in

in any type of uh topic there also

online teaching is an opportunity for a lot of people the one that I love here on the list and I'm seeing this is the reselling people that are going to flea market the flea market flipping that's big you can really score uh and make some really good money then you got to know what you're doing yeah garage sales yard sales flea markets even Goodwill yeah buy stuff for cheap

and look it up on eBay see what it's selling for and go clean it up and flip it uh the one that I love sharing I share this on my Show recently about a young lady who had just graduated uh from law school and she was

looking to get on with a firm and uh

wasn't finding what she wanted she's trying to figure it out and she stumbles into uh someone who says I've got some friends who want someone to walk their dogs they've got three dogs and she says well what do they pay and it's really you know it's pretty good in New York Manhattan oh okay that's big money there so she starts doing it and she realized like like

this is really good money for my time she now makes over a hundred thirty thousand dollars a year in Manhattan with a dog walking service to where now she's got so many clients that she Farms it out if you will to other people but she's clearing over six figures walking dogs that's amazing which is well over 60 bucks an hour by the way it's fantastic doing the math at home all right here's a fun story George uh my wife Stacy shared

this story with me of a young man in our neighborhood right here in Franklin Tennessee who's making several hundred dollars a week are you ready for this yeah hit me power washing this is a big one garbage cans a

power washer costs you can get them for 100 bucks yeah and so you got these nasty stinking garbage cans I never even thought about it and he's going around he's power washed pressure washing these uh garbage you can charge 15 20 bucks a pop for these yeah and it takes you a few minutes yeah here's another absurd one and I say it's absurd that people pay for

this but folks we live in a world where people have so much disposable income all you got to do is think about can I solve a problem now this is absurd but this is my neighborhood again this guy's 55 years of age he's retired but he does this just for fun and he's making a really good he's making over five thousand dollars a month you ready for

this picking up glass bottles what and

recycling them for people they just put them out there they don't want to they don't want to get rid of them they think they should recycle but they don't want to deal with it and he goes around and picks them up and he's charging people very handsomely because several hundred homes where he's picking up I know where you live Ken I may roll around that neighborhood and here go some glass who's throwing money out like that's wow is that not absurd it's a great side hustle

I saw one in my neighborhood painting mailboxes your mailbox gets a little weathered a little worn we'll repaint the mailbox so you can get so creative and let me tell you dog walking and pet sitting one of the most lucrative things out there you can charge 25 30 bucks an hour one of my kids one of my kids is going to make a thousand dollars over eight to ten days

dog sitting another golden doodle who looks just like our dog Ellis you know what I did the other day got my car my house James he's looking at me like I'm nuts I'm not kidding you it's 10 days we're watching this dog thousand bucks that's insane that's the market rate I might do it you might maybe I'm open to it but this is another one Ken mobile car detailing show up in someone's driveway big bucks use their water spigot oh

you clean their car I just I paid a guy to do this last weekend he did my car he did such a great job I said come back tomorrow do my wife says UV what'd you try I think it was a hundred bucks and maybe 125 for an SUV so in a few hours he made 100 bucks another few hours another 125 bucks and he can do three four of

these a day wow that's some serious money yeah so get creative and the more you're willing to put effort in the more money you're gonna make if you want to sit at home and take little surveys on your phone you're not going to make good money so so why do we spend time on this because there are a lot of people that are constantly coming into our atmosphere watching

the show listening to the show and they feel like getting a thousand dollars in baby step one is almost impossible the wages can that's the problem and the fact is is folks it's never been easier to make a thousand dollars in quick time frames to

be able to get that baby step one funded and then quite frankly keep that momentum going and walk through baby step two so you can do it it's very important all kinds of options by the way if you want to dive in deeper that article ramsaysolutions dot we're going to link it in the show notes in the description very nice thank you George for all the podcasters it's 27 side hustle ideas

ramseysolutions.com all right we got to pay some bills you know how important that is and we'll be right back this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey show America I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by George camel we're taking your calls this hour it is toll-free triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

we have people who tune in to every episode of the Ramsay show and they know just about everything we teach about money they can finish our sentences and yet they're still feeling very stressed out because they're stuck why is this because knowing what to do with your money isn't the issue it's doing what we

teach personal finance is 80 behavior and only 20 head knowledge The Proven way to change your behavior with your money is by taking Financial Peace University this class is the difference between trying to get in shape on your own versus hiring a trainer you'll have a coordinator holding you accountable and other people in the class that are on the same journey and they're pushing you with their participation

this is why the classes work for millions of people after nine weeks you'll handle money like you never have before and you'll never go back you'll make progress faster than ever so don't just listen to the show commit to joining the progress the actual path

through financial Financial Peace and University you can join at ramseysolutions.com FPU that's ramseysolutions.com FPU I'm teaching a

class right now George have you finished your class mine starts June 20th so people don't know this but for the first time all the Ramsey personalities are leading a class themselves virtually kenz is already kicked off so you can't join that one no too late too late for party if you want to join me June 20th we're going to be meeting around lunchtime you can catch the replays this one's fun I love that so that's an option very good let's go to Beth in Birmingham Alabama Beth how can we help

hello hi Beth what's up

well um I'm calling in with a question uh I've been through a divorce um and I have a five-year-old little girl so I'm living with my parents um my parents have been so so supportive but I am feeling pressured just by my

own I guess expectations um to move out into like around two years I feel like that's a pretty good goal but um I because of uh what I'm trying to save

um I'm nervous that um I should rethink my dream of building our house or I should rethink my time

frame so I was just curious what you guys had to say about that I think you

set this up well you know build it at all or adjust my

time frame to make it more realistic what's what which way are you leaning before you even asked us

um well I guess um I'm struggling with like my parents have sat me down and then like are you kidding like we want to be supportive during this time like they're amazing and there's such they're incredible um but uh I just feel

guilty and I also feel like through all of this in the divorce um I I I feel like I've failed um in a lot of different ways but I feel like I just need to be able to show my little

girl um I don't I just I guess I feel I'm putting pressure on myself but I think sometimes that's good um as a parent you know I have expectations for myself but I do I do struggle with perfectionism are they realistic expectations

um I don't think they are right I don't know well I don't think they are I think you've got a timeline in your head that you've pretty much have gotten to the point where you realize this isn't possible so I'm going to call Ken and George and see if they think I should abandon this dream of building my own home yeah I don't like this either I don't either pass fail

if it's not done in two years Beth has failed as a mom you're an amazing mom I agree and having a house or not will not change that and your daughter seeing you build this house or not doesn't change how she sees you I would tell you point blank don't abandon the dream because you can get there now we're going to walk you through the financial steps to do that

but there's no reason why you should abandon the dream adjust the timeline yes and also Beth it's okay for drinks to change yeah for a while I'm sorry I

would wait I would rent for a while until you can afford it the right way and we have very specific parameters to help you do that and it's wait until you have enough down payment to where you can get a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payments no more than a quarter of your take-home pay right and uh also you know this what was this dream house you wanted is this like a big house what were the the must-haves why why build versus just buy a current home well um I've been looking at homes and

basically what I'm finding in my area is

like Meeks there's just uh everything's

just really expensive and then it's just not at all what I want and I don't I and

I could be like I guess I'm a romantic but part of me is just like I want to be able to have this like I I just feel like it would be something really special to have From the Ashes of my situation like like I because I've even created it in Excel like the floor plans and everything um I know that's silly but um no no hold on a second Beth so you've interrupted yourself about three times as you uh attempted to answer George

nobody puts my friend Beth down especially not Beth I agree and and this you this perfectionism that you just admitted to that's what's going on and

it doesn't have to be perfect you're gonna design your own home in Excel then you're gonna get with an architect one day when you're ready to to do this and you've got the cash and the financial situation to do it and you're going to build a custom home I believe that if you believe it but there's going to be a season where we're building up to that financially and if you've got to buy a house in the meantime and and pay that off uh or you put so

much down that you get great equity in it as you continue to build then you sell that and you turn that profit into being able to put a huge amount down or all cash on building a home this is very very doable but but you've got to decide what must be true in my financial life

then what must be true in my personal life to be able to get to that Financial place and then we just walk that out and

then the time will take care of itself right George yeah so Beth walk us through some numbers here do you have any debt I I fully um I've gone I haven't gone through like officially financial piece but I've had like I've gone through the steps um so I have no debt when I uh

with served papers um for divorce I had four thousand and now I have twenty thousand dollars in my

emergency fund so that's a fully funded emergency fund and so now I have nine

and I and I also was a stay-at-home mom so like God has given me the opportunity to have a job and I'm I'm making it's

more than I have ever made it's 60 a year so that's a big deal for me um but so I've got 9 000 for my um house

down payment savings so that's wonderful no debt fully funded emergency fund you're you've got a nine thousand dollar Head Start so now we need to look at what is our our savings goal is it a hundred thousand we need to get some real numbers on what this would cost to build this custom home or work with a home builder an existing neighborhood that can give you what

you want have you looked into that well and I've talked with a builder which he just goes to my church so it's nothing formal but it's a hundred and he said that it's going about 180 per square foot and so the house that I've planned

or whatever sketched whatever is um like about 1800 square feet so it would be like 300 something 325 plus you need to land

yes okay so with my take on pay like I'm

only going to be able to afford about 1200 a month I think okay and so then we need to go with this maybe a six-year dream instead of a two-year dream which means I can't live you know with Mom and Dad for the next six years let's have a strategy to where we move out in a year or two we rent for a while we get the income up

and we continue to save up that down payment until we can have that dream home or we compromise and go I really want to get in a home faster than that I'm going to get a 200 000 home town home in my area until I can get there so you have a lot of options but I don't want it to be either I build this home in two years from a failure

and I'll never accomplish what I set out to accomplish right and this home will not fill any

void and so I don't want you to have the illusion that going through this is going to change that I want you to deal with the past hurt and grieve what you lost and now create a new picture of what's to come that's what our friend Dr John deloney would say yeah and Beth listen your hero to your to your daughter I mean this is this is

this is about the future and the best for you is still yet to be you've got this you got to believe it and be okay waiting for it while we work for it that's the hardest part thank you so much Beth we're cheering you on thanks to George Campbell for a great hour I want to thank James Childs our fearless leader behind the glass and the entire crew to keep us on

the air I want to thank you America for listening this is the Ramsay show

foreign

[Music] hey George camel here if you love the show and you want a deeper dive on your money Journey we've got a Weekly Newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to ramseysolutions.com today to sign up for the newsletter again that's ramseysolutions.com to sign up for our Weekly Newsletter [Music]

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving and storage Studio this is the

Ramsey Show it's where we help you win with your money your work and your relationships I'm Ken Coleman joined by my colleague George Campbell the phone number to jump in is toll-free it's triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to San Diego

California I love that City George beautiful one of the many reasons no bugs I didn't think about it no bugs we live in the south where mosquitoes can carry a toddler I don't go outside unless I have to yeah not in San Diego my friend uh all right so Lena Ray is there let's

go how can we help

Lena Ray hello Hi how are you guys we're great what's going on so I'm in a dilemma because I'm in the military and I'm transferring out within the next about a year I'd say 12 months uh uh 12 months and 14 months from now

um but I'm in the baby steps I'm currently in baby step number two and I'm thinking about selling my car um I just don't know how to go about that what I'm just afraid I guess to take the next step and choose a car what how much loan should I take no all right so first and foremost we want to say thank you for serving our country you are a great American thank you very much for that tell us about this car that you're thinking about selling

Tesla you're talking to the right guy today with George George likes Tesla's

there's no such thing

I'm sorry to break it to you the best interest rate is zero percent with a zero dollar payment that's what I got in my test so now why do you want to sell this Tesla why why are you calling us asking us uh about selling this

are you is it killing you is the car payment killing you let's be honest absolutely and you're not even driving it much I'm not driving it much no okay and what's it worth um after plugging in the numbers at a higher value Maybe to 39 right now let's say you sold it for 40. that leaves you with no money to buy a card do you have any cash on hand

just by uh one thousand saved okay and no other debt no I actually do have a lot more debt and that's why I'm trying to sell it okay so this is one step 75 with the car

what's the other debt it's all Consumer Debt on credit cards okay oh so you got 35 000 in credit card debt yep what's the interest rate on that

uh the highest interest rate on one of

the cards is 27 correct oh I need some

peps at AC oh okay Harper I'm almost

done paying that one off good well absolutely we are selling this car are you gonna need a car ASAP to get around

yes okay so can we get you a little beater car let's say you waited to sell this Tesla for three months and whatever you have saved in three months we're gonna find you a cheap car is that reasonable yeah what's your income

um total income I would say 9 000 after taxes a month yes and how much of that do you have after paying your minimum payments on your debts how much could you save towards that beater car

I'm only paying minimum I

thousand dollars okay oh boy oh boy all right I'm on the hunt San Diego used car six thousand

dollars the exact opposite of what you're driving now what model Tesla is this a model y okay all right so you're gonna miss that Tesla and whatever's next is going to be the saddest worst thing you've ever driven for now the good news is we're gonna get you back in a Tesla if that's what you so choose later on down the line once we are debt free with a fully funded emergency fund and we're gonna do it with no payments we're gonna pay cash

sound good okay I'm glad you're willing to make the sacrifice most people calling in are even unwilling to sell the car so the fact that you're going should I sell it I feel like I need to and you have a great income you're making six figures yeah so we're going to knock out the rest of this credit card debt real fast without that payment what's that Tesla payment right now

almost 900 bucks back in your life to throw with this credit card debt 837 a

game changer oh my gosh because you're probably paying 800 bucks in interest on those credit cards right now at least

oh Lena Ray we are pulling for you to knock out this debt fast is there any way you can create more income yeah so I'm actually I've been doing door Dash and I did it for one weekend just to try it out and only did maybe like 14 hours and made 400 bucks that's awesome whoa that's incredible the good news about doordash is no one gives a rip what

you drive that's true they just cared their food got there and it's still warm isn't that different and if you're that embarrassed by it I'm a fan of just pulling 500 yards down the street they don't see it that's true nobody cares to your point sure good for you well that's awesome Lena Ray drive like no one else until later on you can drive like no one else you're doing

it the right way well said proud of you and again thank you for your service you are a great American and you've got this let's go to Lincoln Nebraska where Jackson is on the line Jackson how can we help hey hey how are you guys doing we're having a blast what's going on awesome awesome okay so me and my wife

are out of baby step two we have baby step three done uh we were gonna save for a house um but I really really want to be a pilot uh as my long-term career eventually and if we go that route we would be putting off buying a house for several years because flight school is quite pricey and it takes a while so I just want to know what would you guys do

I would do whatever it takes to get

through the pilot training without any debt at all and if that means putting off multiple things that's what I would do because there's just there's no reason to have any debt for this it is expensive but when you come out of this thing you're gonna be one of the few pilots who have no debt and you're gonna be flying the friendly Skies debt free and the house will still be

there so I I would do whatever it takes not to go into debt cash flow how long would that take to save up in cash flow this so it's about um it's 95 000 for all seven ratings and

um then I have to be an instructor to build my hours for for a couple years so I'd say it would probably take about three years to save up and then probably

another two or three years to go through everything because it while doing a full-time job here um it would be hard to um go faster than that so get through

the get through the training and everything and then I'd have to be a flight instructor for maybe a couple years so I'm looking at I mean it's it's a long journey going to med school it is and you have a spouse yes what do they think yeah they're they're very supportive she's very supportive of me um she wants a house I mean we've kind of talk like hey

we can rent a house eventually I mean like if we want to have more space we can still rent in the future and she's okay with that and she's completely on board as well well that's huge that's the most important part yeah because then you're going to be willing to do whatever it takes because we agreed on this vision for our life and it may take longer

it may look different but I love that you're choosing your reality and we can't have the cake and eat it too we want the house we want to do the pile but we've got to choose which one is the priority and here's the thing Jackson I'm not saying you're gonna do this but it could be very easy for someone in your situation on a long journey like

this to start to feel guilty about Midway through and your wife is still supportive she's on board for the vision but all of a sudden you go oh I feel like we gotta get a house and we we just slip into debt don't do it stay the course it's gonna work out don't move more of your calls coming up this is the Ramsey Show

thank you

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welcome back to the Ramsey show America I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by my colleague George camel we're here for you this hour as we answer your questions about money about your work

and about your relationships all three of those areas of your life they just have a way George of bleeding into each other if you're not winning in one it tends to affect the other and we are here for you this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's

go to Megan who joins us in Atlanta Georgia Megan how can we help hi um thank you so much for taking my call um I just I'm a recent um graduate I just got my Master's Degree and I'll be working for the first

time um pretty soon and I just wanted to

um know how to go about establishing Financial boundaries with my parents no

oh so the very question here George tells me that you feel like there aren't some healthy boundaries now they're Crossing I'm just curious what what is the source

of this what are you concerned about as maybe not being a boundary what's going on tell us a little bit more um so I had the gracious just pleasure

my last year of grad school living with

a family member and um they didn't charge me at all and they even opened up saying like hey we get you're just starting out you know like you can stay with us longer I definitely had planned on you know giving like a monetary gift of monthly even though it's not required however my dad is kind

of like very just expectant of like how

much are you gonna give and I kind of was like oh I think that's for me and that family member to discuss and so he's not involved in this in the actual transaction it's not his place yeah he's not has he's just gone well you should be paying them

insistent on knowing how much I would be paying them and like creating like that number for me instead of me and that family member and what is your response been to him when he's uh digging uh I I told him you know that I'll talk

to it with the family member and he definitely wasn't happy about it um he said you know I as as my father I

shouldn't keep information like that I'm being secretive so I I just want to go about like you know I do love my dad and everything but I do think it's time for me as an adult like you know be on my own and so just trying to find that short balance all right so let me let me ask a question is it that you don't want to pay the amount that he's suggesting or you just don't want his his input at all and the

reason I ask that is because what's the big deal with you just going dad here's what I've decided I'm happy to tell you it's not a secret I'm just deciding what I'm giving and it feels like he just wants to have input and I'm just wondering why is it that big of a deal for you to just say to him all right this is what I'm paying dad

you want to know what I'm going to do this is what we've arranged and then if he disagrees then you deal with it so my dad um his input he'll say it's you know a suggestion but

there's an implicit thing that you kind of have to do it okay so this to you is a clear dividing line by saying I'm not even going to tell you it's just between me and this other family yeah so what is his motivation you know him better than anyone what do you think's behind this I know his motivation um is definitely just like

I know his motivation is definitely just to I guess make sure that family members

aren't talking and thinking I'm just mooching it's his reputation on the line

yeah essentially oh okay that's what I was digging for yep because the motive matters some parents are just going you know they have they looking out for you they want the best for you but this feels like if they find out through the grapevine of the family that she's only paying 300 bucks they're gonna be coming at me going wow your daughter's so cheap and that's a reflection yeah okay well uh this is as our friend

Dr Henry Cloud would say you've got to draw the boundary line the property line that marks what you're responsible for and what he's responsible for and this is not his responsibility yeah if it's going to put a tear in the relationship that's on him not on you and I know that's hard to say

but it's going to it may cause a riff that is unrepairable depending on his response do you think it's do you think it's not uh you think it's something that's going to last a long time or do you think he's going to get over it eventually um I'm hoping and praying it doesn't last a long time um you know I definitely told my parents that I've been thankful for everything but I do think just me as an adult going

forward these are just some things I should kind of like keep to myself regarding my finances so this conversation has already happened yeah yeah and how is it so far what was his reaction and he wasn't happy yeah but I understand he wasn't happy I want to know what was his reaction like when you say not happy did I mean he was gave you the silent treatment did

it mean no he he definitely you know definitely blew up which is expected um I'm sorry definitely did the whole like you know as your father which is expected um my mom was also not the happiest but she's more understanding like you know I'm not happy but I understand it's what you have to do um how long ago was this like a couple hours oh okay fresh

so

this is like the hot now sign at Krispy Kreme Donuts I mean this is this is fresh yeah um well do you believe you did the right thing yes or no I do okay I do

parents are the best at making us feel guilty and selfish our decisions yeah I think you have to hold the line to say I love you too I respect you I'm sorry you feel the way that you feel but I'm still your girl your values are intact I'm doing the right thing and cast a vision on what this is going to look like going forward and so that

they get their mind off of this fear that George pulled up on here I mean he figured your dad out pretty quick on this deal and so it's this is some selfishness going on here but it's what I would call uh it's unintentional your dad's just worried about you his reputation the whole nine yards and you know what he's having a

hard time letting go of you yeah so I would tell you to and I feel like you have the spirit on you right now but the spirit of Grace of

understanding compassion for Dad which is hard to have compassion for somebody that blows up on you yeah and I'm going to do you one better Megan we're actually going to send you a copy of our friend Dr Henry Cloud's book boundary so hang on the line and I will make sure you're sent that book and it may be one you you give to Dad not passive aggressively

but you're saying dad this book's been really helpful for me I'm learning all this now as I'm becoming an adult I've had to have these really hard conversations I found it helpful not just for this but for all areas of life and I think you'd get a lot of value out of it too I think you're right Ken dad's having a hard time letting go he's used to being able to tell

the daughter what to do she's a grown woman now she gets to make her own decisions yeah and based on what I heard from her she's very respectful I think so too she's got her life together she's not doing anything out of control yeah you know what it makes me think of I was reading and I'm sure you've seen these lists before they're quite popular in fact

there was a best-selling book written by a Australian nurse uh that

she was a hospice nurse and she published this book on the the top regrets of people who are dying oh and one of the top five regrets of people who are dying is I wish I had lived the life that was true to what I wanted to live in other words and as you start to unpack that phrase you realize that these were people who made big decisions in life that pleased others based on the expectation that did not please themselves and so what happens is if you

don't establish boundaries here and you're always trying to make decisions that please others that are in absolute a conflict with what you believe you should do you are going to be a person who dies with regret and it's that important yeah well I've heard this quote and Dr John alone is quoting another psychologist physician when he says choose guilt over resentment yeah right that's the healthiest way to go about your life resentment will eat you alive guilt is

something we go yeah okay yeah so feel guilty for telling Dad off but at least I'm not resentful so true I'd rather disappoint somebody than and resent than live an inauthentic life isn't that true man wow well Megan uh we got the book coming for you you read it and live it it's really it's going to be a game changer and set you free thank you so much for the call all right folks quick commercial break more of the Ramsey show coming up don't move [Music]

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thank you

welcome back America you are joining the conversation here on the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by George camel the phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five you got a work question not happy but you're freaking out I'm in the baby steps can I can I interrupt my income do I need to uh you got a money question well

we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five a lot of you are planning to move sometime soon and that's always exciting uh but

we've got to get real with you here in most places around the country you're going to be facing some sky-high home prices interest rates are not going to return to the record lows anytime soon but that doesn't make it impossible to own a home if you want to buy or sell you got to make sure that you're financially ready and that you've got a trusted and experienced real estate agent to walk

you through it not Uncle Larry who just got his license last month you need a pro who's a true expert you can find a high caliber Ramsay trusted agent like that through our endorsed local providers program and we vet the agents around the country so you're going to get the best support whether you're moving from Florida to Alaska or buying your first home somewhere in between go to ramseysolutions.com agent that's

ramseysolutions.com agent let's go to Atlanta Georgia Sarah is on the line Sarah how can we help hi there here's my question

I am 54 years old and I just got out of

debt I am a substitute teacher who is building her emergency fund as we speak is it impractical for me to dream about

owning a building at my age that would

house my own LLC restaurant okay and how old are you you broke up when you told us maybe that's God there's no shame in your game but it does play into our answer how old 54. okay 54. got it and what is your

current income

um well it's um I make um

1000 roughly one thousand seven hundred

dollars a month and how often are you substitute teaching to make that

about 14 days roughly a month okay and

what about the other you know 16 or so days in the month are you working uh I I mean it varies uh okay it's not right

14 but it just depends on it I'm classified as on call so it just depends on when they need me that kind of thing okay well my the reason I ask is to figure out how we can get you closer to your goal and income is a huge part of that you know we always we always say that your greatest wealth building tool is your income and

and Ken is so good at helping people increase that which is a huge part of getting to this goal you said you're in baby step three you're getting the emergency fund in place that's great do you have anything in retirement no okay so so okay so so

it's going to take we've got to stop looking at time and I understand in the heart of your question but you at the situation the time will take care of itself the answer to your original question is it realistic for me at 54 to

think about owning a building that I could then have a restaurant in it's realistic yes based on activity and

your income and right now you are you are not making much money at all and so the clock is ticking really fast for you and so the more income you can make then we get more realistic on what that time frame looks like but I lived in the Atlanta Georgia area for a long time what area do you live in

I live on the South Side live on the South Side okay so uh have you even looked at a building that uh would would house what you want to do with it and you have any idea what that would cost in your area yes I had looked at that okay what are we looking at cost wise uh 178 000 okay see now we've got a

number and so how long will it take us to save up 178 thousand dollars because we don't want you going into debt for this building okay because you're you're really you really are at this stage of the game you don't have much retirement at all you're working through baby step three which is great so this is gonna have to be a get after

it hustle situation and so if the numbers five years seven years ten years that number is determined by the income that you can make do you understand what I'm saying yes sir and then we have and did I hear you say restaurant that you wanted to have a restaurant as well in this building yes I want to own the building and um

move my LLC restaurant in I've already got my LLC status for my restaurant but

um I just um need a building we're currently running this from yeah where are you running I don't want to rent because it's like seven or eight thousand dollars a month and and I want to put that money toward my humanitarian efforts because I have a humanitarian Edge to my LLC restaurant are you running a restaurant right now no we're just on we exist on paper that's

it okay that's what I thought so it's an LLC but it's not a restaurant uh Georgia I mean we got it we got a decision I want to be realistic yeah based on your income right now this stream is not going to it's not gonna happen based on your income right now we would need to increase this by a whole lot and I want to think about where how do how does Sarah retire one day

let's just say the restaurant doesn't happen we need a game plan yep

so we need to figure out how do we start investing do you have a home currently

yes is it paid for yes it is paid off okay what's the home worth Melissa what what is the home worth

um it's worth 80 000. okay and that's pretty much all you have to your name plus your emergency fund okay yes so I

want you to start thinking about developing a plan so that 10 years from now 64 we've developed a little bit of a nest egg by investing that may start with a Roth IRA for you maxing that out but we also need to get our income up to do that right now we don't have money to invest we don't have money to save towards this restaurant and we're not gonna be able to buy a building in cash

so it may start with I'm gonna go work at a restaurant learn the ins and outs of the business get in with the manager maybe take over management one day so that when the time comes I'm ready to do this thing okay would you be willing to do that to go work at a restaurant and learn all the ins and outs of the business

uh I would be willing to um start from the ground up I I have a college degree so so okay I'll be able to so Sarah here's what I'm jumping in real quick so we've got to start to get some real numbers for you to see we got to get out of our head and we've got to get some real numbers so you've got to increase your income to

the level that as George is saying that you actually can put 15 of your income away in baby step four because that's first and foremost it's more important than the restaurant and then after that in a given year you're going to have to be able to put 20 to 30 000 away a year George on

minimum yeah just to get to the point where we can buy 178 180 000 building plus any startup cost and I'm concerned about the startup cost of the restaurant there's a question and truthfully the rate at which restaurants fail is scary it's normal so I want you to do so much research too so much homework talk to actual restaurant owners whether they've been successful or unsuccessful learn from

these people before you jump in because I'm worried at this point we're never going to be able to retire yeah and uh that's my biggest biggest concern for you right I agree and so Sarah this is not in any way meant to dash the dream I just want you to have a realistic picture of what you're dealing with you're looking at on the low end 20 to 30 000 a year that you'd have to save

you start multiplying that at 54 how many years we're talking about and that's going to be a very sobering picture but a picture you need to see yeah okay and here's why you could buy a building and may never

launch a restaurant in it but if you buy the building down the line and it becomes a part of your retirement strategy or maybe you get involved in a restaurant and work your way up into management and get involved and maybe buy Equity into I mean the point is is that why are you dreaming about a restaurant you're not going to make you answer that but we may have to adjust the details of the dream but keep the

essence of the dream because of the financial realities George that's that's that's where we sit and so if we can't do this what can we do that meets that

same heartfelt desire that she thinks the restaurant this LLC and I I'm always a fan of starting small and doing it with cash that may mean eventually maybe one day we have a food truck and maybe one day that food truck becomes so successful we have the brick and mortar store I love them and one day we get so successful with that we buy the building and we that's the stair stepping I want here yeah that's really good advice Sarah thank you so much for the call do

the homework get a real pick picture of what you're dealing with and now you've got a plan that you can attack thank you again for the call he's George Campbell I'm Ken Coleman this is the Ramsey Show we'll be right back [Music]

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thank you [Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman joined by George camel triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number to jump in today's scripture of the day is proverbs 4 25 and 26 let your eyes look directly ahead and let your gaze be fixed straight in front of you watch the path of your feet in all your ways will be established our quote of

the day George you must have picked this one I know you're a big Shaq I had nothing to do with it but I'm a fan I'd love to see you in Shaq side by side in a picture we've seen Mugsy Bogues out there that's pretty much what you're gonna get you like that it's about the same thing I love that today's quote from Shaquille O'Neal Excellence is not a singular act

but I have it you

are what you repeatedly do I don't know do you think Shaq said that it feels like we could have put anyone's name there and I would have believed it so it's plausible Shaq's funny I love

Shaq he is a uh he had a podcast for a while and he's got he's got some great quotes I just don't see him saying it that way that one feels too serious it is he's he's a great dude though very funny guy I had a chance to meet him once and he swapped when he shook my hand it was like my entire arm went into his hand

it was like a baseball mitt yeah essentially wow fantastic triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number Providence Rhode Island is where we go next Jaden is there Jaden how do we help how's it going good what's going on

uh yeah so just uh shortly briefly uh summarize my my situation I'm uh 21 years old I uh when I graduated high school originally I went and took a year and a half of college and um my major kind of just I kind of lost interest covered was happening I was online so I gained some student uh student loans and um from there I switched careers and I went into the iron workers so I'm in that union now and I have about 9.2 just about 9 200 of

debt right now and uh that's counting uh 500 of credit

from my credit card I'm just honestly looking for the best way or some some Financial advice to go from here because I'm doing monthly payments currently but I feel like it's like it's just going nowhere Okay so we've got about 8 700 in student loans 500 on credit cards yes are those separate student loans how many are there if you broke them out uh there's four separate student loans what's the smallest one the smallest one's fifteen hundred cool so the this is the way I attacked my student loan debt I it was exactly like you I had credit card debt student loan debt back in 2013.

um I mean right now the job I'm working on I'm making if I work a 40 hour week I'm taking home about 650 a week okay

so um I mean I have some other bills

monthly but like such as a car insurance and whatnot I mean I could I feel as if I could definitely pay it off in like a month or two yeah I was gonna say like a month and a half two months if I just completely focus on it great so then you free up that credit card payment and now we can apply that plus all the extra margin

you had to the next payment and the next payment until you knock all of your debts out smallest to largest and on average that takes folks 18 to 24 months well you know with uh with your level of debt nine grand I think you'll do it faster okay sounds good so that's the way to do it my man that's it it's that simple and it's that hard

because you gotta focus on one thing at a time and you have to not look at the interest rates which is hard to do and you just have to go on a Vengeance yeah Focus yeah great Linda is

up next in Austin Texas Linda how can we help hey thanks for taking

I have

congratulations

excited yes you should be 72.

say that again I've been working since 1972.

that's fantastic how long have you been

retired Linda well I'm it's uh next Saturday is my last day is the retirement the second time around I retired once in California and I moved to Austin and got a job again and been working and here I am I'm doing a little Encore career and now we were sailing off no she's done she's she's had it folks she's out plus you get two retirement parties I like that yeah good okay so what's your question I

have been collecting uh social security for a couple years and I get a pension from California which I'm doing pretty good you know monthly I have no bills but one thing came up here at this time my mom passed away a couple years ago

so I'm going to get about 114 000 and I owe 83 000 on my house and I

have a interest rate of 2.875

so my question is the financial advisor

which I just rolled over my 401k for that company at 103 000 I rolled it over this week she says I shouldn't pay my house off of that money I should just reinvest it with them because the interest rate well of course Linda the financial advisor is going to tell you to invest with them ah it's like asking again it would be like asking a gastroenterologist if if you want to get a colonoscopy you know it's you're gonna you're going to the wrong place for advice on debt payoff wow yeah I know I

know you were going to say that but so not that they're a bad financial advisor but their incentivized to get you to invest that's how they make money that's how their brain thinks so I would encourage you to pay off this mortgage tomorrow you're going to get a payoff quote and wire the money yeah and you'll still have 31 grand left yeah so then what do I do with that with that well so what was your mortgage payment uh my mortgage payment was without taxes

616 Okay so we've got a few extra 100

bucks in the uh in the budget now we have our social security we have our pension about 4240 between Social Security and my pension awesome skills well now we just got a little cushion in retirement and now we can live and give like no one else we can give a little more spend a little more and continue to invest do you have any other Investments no I just rolled that over

this week to an investor and they're going to put in some mutual funds okay I've never done that before so but you have no money in Investments it's all Social Security and pension right now until we get this money yeah well that money is rolled over yeah it's here already I just got to take it down there and give them a check next week yeah whatever's left throw into some mutual funds

and you can continue to pile on top of that with whatever margin you have left but I like having a goal for giving saving and spending and so let's increase our giving a little bit let's have Linda have a little fun uh increase some of the spending line items for fun money and then we're going to invest some as well okay so then I guess I could uh give

it

to them or else I was just going to put it in a CD account or just to have for in case something happens I don't know yeah I would just park in a high yield savings account and keep it liquid uh that way if an opportunity strikes or do you want to buy something or whatever it is you'll have that money ready to go and you've got you've got great rates right now with those high yield savings accounts yes I've been looking at them

the CD rates and all that put in there for a while so um I really appreciate you so I'm glad I'm gonna go pay my house off next week on my retirement Linda that's amazing it

is that is so fantastic to be retired and no house payment and that's a nice little chunk of change you get to decide what to do with and George gave you some great advice so these are the fun problems we get to Grapple with yeah is Linda out there yes Linda what is one fun thing that you

think you'd like to do now with this extra margin what is it one thing no no one no no one

fun thing I don't want to put pressure on you and say one thing but what's one fun thing George gave you some great advice celebrating this Milestone two

Milestones what do you think you want to do oh God I don't know

go on a vacation somewhere there we go where are you going what's on the list Paris France or something Paris the City of Lights be

fantastic yes all right all expenses paid no no debt here we're not going back you need to stay in tune with George and everything he's doing this guy can give you all kinds of hacks on how to do Paris for Less that's true have you done a video yet on this I need to you probably should I was looking at Costco Travel at Paris trips see I got

the itch Ken there you go Linda Costco Travel this is more than you asked for today it's more than America needed Costco card there's a Costco pot too they're not hey Costco member you're you're I'm a fan of that as long as not the credit card cut up the credit card but if it's a membership card oh no I don't use I just use a debit card no

she just means to get in the building George you never know these days Ken okay I guess she's good hey Linda's going to Paris I think

we just Center like price is right you're going to Paris I know but I had nothing to do for three hey good hour George always fun to be with you my friend I want to thank the James Childs our fearless leader and the entire crew behind the glass for keeping us on the air hey America this is your show thank you for tuning in we believe in you you got this this is the rain show [Music]

thank you [Music] hey it's Ken if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramsesolutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation again that's ramseysolutions.com and click get started [Music]

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## 176. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-12-23)


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[Music]

[Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey personality the host of the Ken Coleman show author of the number one bestselling book from check to purpose as my co-host today so we definitely can handle your career job and work questions along with anything else you want to throw at us the phone number Isle 88255 225 thanks for being there we're

going to start this hour with William and St Louis hi William how are you doing good Dave hi Kev how are you doing

good what's up how can we help yes I

just have a question I'm 30 years old I

graduate with my degree in computer science I currently work in a trade right now doing foundation repair and I'm thinking of pursuing a career in the military but not quite sure if it's what I should be doing I don't I feel as though I don't have much of an opportunity of growth using either of the skills that I've learned or would like to do them long term okay

so we have two different factors there so first I don't feel like I have opportunity for growth uh with a computer science degree I that that couldn't further from the truth uh technology is the number one industry

where we stand today and going forward will continue to be so so the sky the limit on technology now in the trades I

would say that's incorrect in the trades as well but in your particular role as foundation repair maybe that's true so

that's one narrative problem the second thing you brought up is uh I don't know if I want to do them long term now that's that's that's what we need to be paying attention to so is the military just another option or is it something that you've always longed to do you you're a patriot you want to serve our country in a specific way or is it just

another option that maybe I'll kick the tires on because I don't want to do computer and Technology work and I don't want to be in the trads what is it um I've always had the drive to do so since my senior year of high school and even through college but now that I've

been a working professional for this

long I I feel like I can't get the opportunity with my foot in the door to use my computer degree and like say doing trades it's it's fun but I don't I'm not giving any benefits or any actually any benefits at all okay well let's if I offered you a job making 150,000 in computer science would you be would you have joy I'm not sure complete Joy but I mean it wouldn't hurt either well I mean what why why not complete Joy honestly it's money is not really a

motivator for me so back to the military thing I thought I heard you say that you've always wanted to serve in the military since high school did I hear you correctly that's correct okay then

why what's behind that I haven't had much goal or general direction in what I want to do so I just kind of fall on you know whatever seems

easier okay that's not a good answer to I've always wanted to be in the military it's completely opposite so um what you have to understand is is

that there there are things that you do well those are your talents and then there's things that you really enjoy doing and to this point in your life I think you know what those are so if I interviewed everybody that knows you William what would they say are the top two or three things you do well and we're talking about a skill set could be a hard skill or soft skill what would

they say I'm not quite sure I'm not I don't have that many talents all right now we know what's going on so here's where we're at William so I'm going to give you a couple of tools that will allow you to dive into this not under the pressure of being live on the air okay I'll tell you about those in a minute but here's what's going on something has happened to

you something

has been said to you to where you don't believe that you have anything to offer you don't think you have any talents and that couldn't be further from the truth so what we got to do is we got to get you to a place where you begin to see wait a second I have something that I can do well that's come easy for me people have complimented on

this and if I'm if I'm able to get through the pain and through the past and see that then I can begin to realize oh I have something that I can do well

and when we get the clues to that there will be things that we enjoy closely aligned if not the same thing so stay on the line and I want to do a couple things I want to give you the get clear career assessment and this is a wonderful little tool of self-awareness I want you to take it and then I want you to read the book from paycheck to purpose

then I want to schedule a call Austin let's schedule to have him call in on my show after he's done both of those things and we'll work through what

we now see and Dave uh you know our friend John delone deals with this a lot too when someone feels as though they have no worth they don't feel they're worthy and then they have a hard time even identifying I can do this well this

is a type of work that I can do and contribute to the world and that's what's going on with him yeah and then you fall backwards that's correct you start selecting things I'll try right well I mean you just like take take the path of least resistance it's like I can't screw that up right I'll go to the military and they'll tell me what to do when that up right yeah and that's not that this is um Earl Nightingale

great motivator used to say that you take an 18-year-old young man young woman and they've got the whole world in front of them there's nothing but hope there's nothing but dreams there's nothing but Vision there's nothing but excitement and if you're not careful how do they select their first career choice

what their friends are doing mhm that's right I just got on down to factory come on down there hiring right and that's about how much work you they spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do a career that's right and you can fall backwards into things if you don't uh deem yourself uh of Great Value

yeah and um you know if you're in the technology world and you actually know how to do technology uh the sky's a limit yeah you're incredible on what you can do but you got to actually believe it and I can't get my foot in the door has nothing to do with the technology world has to do with his foot you nailed it see here's what's going on with this young man and a lot of people that are listening today and watching if you don't see how you are uniquely put

together then you will never believe that you have tremendous value so this is really a self-awareness situation but I will tell you that undoubtedly and I don't want to put him on the spot on the air undoubtedly he has been in an environment or he's had some experiences that has made him feel as though he doesn't have much to offer and so awareness is huge to begin to see himself as somebody who can do things well that's talent who enjoys doing things that's passion

and who is motivated by results that's a sense of mission and that's what's in the assessment that we'll give him so I want the audience to know I didn't want to put him on the spot uh I've talked to so many people like that on the air that they're dealing with a cloud of confusion when you're in that you don't interview well yeah you can't see cuz every anyone doing an interview looks at that looks at that person that's using that type of lingo

and sentence structure and they go uh-uh yeah pretty

quick it's almost as big a turn off as the other end of the spectrum where you get a guy if you could buy him for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth you'd be rich right you get a guy on the other side who's all pumped up and you know really thinks he's something he's not right and that's the other end of

the spectrum and so when you're when you're an employee you're doing an interview or uh an HR person recruiter doing an interview you're picking up on these Vibes off of either one of these two characters we're talking about here and uh it makes a difference quiet confidence and courage is an amazingly powerful thing it changes your voice tone it changes your body language it changes your um

the

believability that you can add value to an organization this is the ramsy

show

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

budget [Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Melissa is with us in Rochester New York hi Melissa welcome to the Ramsey Show hi good afternoon sir and thank you so much for having me on the show sure what's up sure sir the reason why I'm calling in is because I'm having a couple of issues right now I Curr currently own the home that I live in it is completely paid off however that home is actually my mom's home what was your mom's home it's now yours yes it was my mom's home it is in

my name now it is paid off however it

was originally my mom's home she lost it and so I helped her save the home and now it's in my name out of fear that she'll lose it again however sir um my

mom has made infrastructure changes to the property um without this was before

I even had the home she had made infrastructure changes and she didn't properly permit the house so she's gone now a couple years with having rooms that she created into the house that weren't permitted and so now I'm in fear

that I may be see facing any type of legal issues or ramifications that can come out of the house being in my name and her doing things to the home before they were even in my name and so now I'm

trying to just save myself any issues that may come out of all of this and I want to just unded myself anded my mom

back on the property and just give her the property to take care

of how old is your mom my mom is 70 years old okay what did

she do to the house she refinanced it no I'm talking

about the structural issues what did she change she added um bedrooms to the

property so she did an addition

yes changed the square footage of the house are they not within code well no they had if you didn't permit you you changed the square she changed the footprint right yes okay so the actual outside structure of the home is the same it was never changed but what she did was she built up additional walls creating bedrooms inside inside the original footprint inside the original footprint correct yeah that's why

they have no way of knowing what happened there right correct so no you're don't have any liability nothing to worry about nothing to worry about there's nothing to worry about right nothing to worry about unless and that's why I asked theod did she rewire the house without getting an electrical permit no did she replum the house without getting a plumbing permit yes completely replumbed the whole house well

she added a a bathroom she

added one bathroom yeah okay all right

is it done is the construction done of

reasonable quality yes is okay I don't think you got a thing to worry about nothing at all I think you got a thing to worry about it would have been better to per minut it but lots of people do that kind of stuff I mean that's a fairly normal practice yeah some some municipalities are much more strict than others I can't tell you that you know Rochester New York is not like

the toughest in the world or something I don't know that but in general most people you know it's inside the footprint she didn't change the dimensions of the house and um you

know she didn't illegally do a trade other than adding a bath I I I I really

truly um I I I don't think you got a thing to worry about and I wouldn't give her the house back she's going to borrow against it well and here's what's going to happen is she's going to screw it up then she's going to turn around and leave it to you when she dies and you got the mess again you're gonna get it back this thing's a boomerang yes

and now my my one fear right now is so the conditions of the house the roof needs to be replaced that's about $20,000 the driveway needs be replaced fencing needs to be added because she hasn't is she living in it or are you we're both living in it right now what do you make a year uh right now I'm not working I decided to put myself back into school

and I just graduated two months ago how do you peoplefy um where's the money well I have savings that I use up right now I only have about 2,000 savings left and you have a paid for house house is all run down come again sir it's you have a paid for house but it's all run down yes it's

run down and what are you getting ready to do for a career now I'm getting ready to go into public safety law enforcement to be

specific and you'll be making what I'll

be making approximately $60,000 a year okay all right well and I currently have okay I would not date it back to her I would either sell it to an investor as is and you guys go about your Merry way or I would sit there with a plan to to gradually do the uh repairs that need to

be done out of cash from your new

job part of this is you want to get rid of the of all the negative things that your mom represents by getting rid of this house yes sir because right now she rents out that's that's where some of the income is coming and she did additional bedrooms She rents out the bedrooms and so that income she claims it all because that's technically her retirement since she doesn't work I'm sorry the house is yours how does she run out your house and she collects the rent y'all are

weird yes it's only because it's only because the house was originally Min I did save it from her I didn't technically have any Financial investment in it um how did you shve it then um I was able to um when she short

sell the house I was able to purchase it for about $40,000 and that's called a financial investment yes and she has since then refunded me that money okay um you don't

have boundaries is is b i you know I I I

I think you might be right Melissa I actually I'm change I'm going to change my mind right here in the middle of this call wow I think you de it to her and let her have it and you go have a life and when she passes away you auction it off don't you ever move move in it okay I think this house and all the chaos that occurs around your mother in this house uh is all a huge negative

spot for you and a clean fresh start in

criminal justice system is a a great thing for you clean no chaos simple

little one-bedroom apartment and you build up some cash again and uh you've come out even she gave you the money back that you used to save the short sale but you can just push all of this chaotic weirdness over to the side and

not have to worry about it anymore and just I would yeah I would talk to a title company and I dat it out of your name into hers and you go move but only if there's a clean break there yeah you have to you have to stay your own place you have to have your life completely separate completely clean all the chaos

stays over there on her side of the fence don't help with the roof anything around this mom figure is chaotic I can smell it in the air she's a character

mom's a character and then you're sitting there trying to be a normal person in the middle of this character and that's why I called y'all weird so um I couldn't figure out how you own the house and she's collecting the rent uh but now I'm starting to understand so yeah I think it is a good idea let's just get away from it but not because of the remodeling uh

because of the chaos around your mom and this is never going to be it's always going to be the weird part of your life until you give it a little bit of distance and a little bit of a boundary all right Casey's in St Petersburg Florida hi Casey what's

up hi thank you for taking my call sure how can I help um so I've just been listening to your show for about a month now and I um

understand a little bit about the baby steps and I actually just signed up for the financial peace uh course through my church so wow great to get started on

that yeah um so my situation is that I

am 41 single um I have 83,000 in student

loan debt you're a doctor or a lawyer a nurse practitioner oh good

that's even better okay so you're making what 110 um I'm making 135 135 great I love

it what other debts have you got um I have 8,000 in private student

Loom debt okay um 5,000 in a parent plus

loan for my daughter and I have this is the really

hard hard to even say out loud is I have um $199,000 in credit card debt from

medical bills um and other things okay what we're going to do is just do what we do in Financial Peace University you're going to live on beans and rice rice and beans you make a wonderful income and as a nurse practitioner you can also pick up some side gigs called ER on the weekends and it pays really well I want you working all the time I

want you spending no money no restaurants no eating out no vac vacations no life and now we're making

150 160 we're going to live on about 40 and we're going to throw 100 at the student loan debt and you're going to be 100% debt free in around two years but it's going to be two years a hell so get ready it'll be worth it though cuz you'll be free that's exactly how you're going to attack this with great focused intensity good question I'm proud of you get at it holler if you need some more

help

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[Music]

more

can Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today I'm Dave Ramsey thanks for joining us the phone number is 88255 225 Rebecca is in Denver hi

Rebecca welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up I'm wondering what your thoughts are on purchasing a custom tiny home

okay so my situation is I'm going to a divorce um my daughter and I are living in an apartment and we're selling our

house and wondering um on the other end

of it I should have between 100 and 125,000 um from the equity I'm going to beef up my emergency fund and then I could pay cash for a c for a custom tiny house and my daughter is a senior in high school um otherwise I'll

probably stay in the apartment for a few years trying to save some more money just kind of was wondering I know how you feel about trailers I wasn't sure if it was the same with the tiny houses yeah what's your uh income uh 85,000 a year all right and um how long

were you married seven years I'm sorry it's a

hard thing to go through um yeah well here's the problem with the tiny house

um other than the fact that it's tiny here's the problem with the tiny house uh there is no track record out

there it's a fairly new phenomenon and there's no track record out there that says that there's a secondary market for it meaning when you get ready to sell it there's no evidence in the marketplace

yet that you're going to be able to sell it at all and that you'll be able to

sell it um uh for a price even close to

what you paid for it so you you could get really stuck um if they you know you

know so why is it I don't like mobile homes well there's a long track record

they go down in value 100% of the time

okay so we have a pattern an observable pattern and in finance things that's what you're looking for is an observable pattern and so it's why you would like for instance if you bought a home in a

neighborhood uh that is way out on the

edge of town and is brand new that's not as predictable an environment as buying

a home in a treelined street that has

been there for 20 years and is very predictable you follow me so yes even

those two neighborhoods those are both single family homes I'm discussing there but those two neighborhoods give you a predictable pattern and that's why I would never buy buy a tiny home because it's such a new phenomenon we don't know what's going to happen and and we do know this we do know this the market is uh is nowhere near the per the

number of people looking for a tiny home

at a given moment would be way smaller

than the number of people looking for a regular home agreed yes so your your opportunity to your your buyer pool that you would sell to is very small no pun intended

so not physically small but numberers

small but the uh there's a lot of tiny

home jokes here but yeah the uh yeah so I I yeah no I would not buy one for that reason it's that simple it's not that I hate on them or something like that I do hate the I this idea that they're

presented out there as somehow the answer to High house prices the answer

to this or that they're not the answer you know you know not yet someday there may be a robust Market of people buying

other people's tiny homes uh but today

there's not and so no I would tell you don't do that I would rent an apartment for a little while I don't think it's going to be five years I I I think you can go buy a home you have a good income you got 100,000 bucks to put down so get you a good 15year fix you you know Denver's an expensive Market it's tough to buy there but I would not give up on

real estate for 5 years so you you kind of presented me three options I'm going to be in an apartment I'm going to buy a tiny home or I'm going to be in an apartment and wait 5 years two options uh and I think you're in apartment a lot less than 5 years um but part of this is

you guys getting your your spirits and your emotions

reset after this pain that you two have

been through you and your daughter and uh just having a simple apartment situation is a not a bad thing for a year and just use that year to live very conserv conservatively and add to the $100,000 down payment and then talk about maybe this time next year you're talking about buying a home and you know it's presidential election year maybe we'll see interest rates come down who knows other than

the fact that they almost always do during a presidential election because it's hard to get elected you pretty much give up the White House if you give up the economy so we kind of got that coming right there is that and I you know I I also think just with all the pain and Trauma that they've going through that high school senior daughter needs some space and

and you're in a tiny home there's no space and her having her own you know place to move around that senior Year let you guys heal and get stable I think this comes from a lot of people feel like uh renting is throwing money away and it's not when we're getting stable it's not when it's patience with a plan yes yeah spoken like a dad of teenagers okay yes Mary is in Washington DC hi

Mary how are you doing okay how are you guys doing better than we deserve how can we help

yeah I was um calling in my husband and I have just started following your program um and you know we've made some

some I think smart decisions over the years but we've been doing things in the different in in the not necessarily the order that you guys have laid out and so I wanted to call in and check to see um sort of a a challenging question

a moral question is should we pull back

on things like tithing or retirement

in the short term to focus on debt it

feels odd to do that um but I know that

it's a hunk of of money so I don't know we're just calling to get get your thoughts and advice on that okay uh we

never tell people to pull back on their tithe okay their tithe is off the top its first fruits it says in Proverbs

many times and so it's the first thing you do so if you're a person of Faith which is what what you're indicating by saying tithe because that's that's a a

word associated with our faith um so

judeo-christian ethic of some kind you know whether you're Christian or Jewish either one but that's where the word tithe comes from so you're putting that upfront now the rest of it is um the

most powerful wealth building tool you have is your income and when you give it to someone else in the form of debt payments you slow down your ability to build wealth so how old are you you guys um 40 41 okay and how much debt do

you have not counting your home um about 60,000 on

what um 58 of it is um student loans and then 2,000 left on a car and um what's your household income um about 110 okay and how much do

you have in retirement now um we each have maybe between 80 and

100, and do you have any money that's not in retirement uh we have a little bit in savings what's a little bit ,000 $5,000 okay you don't have another mutual fund sitting around or another investment account or anything else no no it's all sort of wrapped up in retirement gotcha okay so what we would tell you to do and we think this is the short we know we've proven this is the shortest path to wealth versus

the one you're on is we would continue

our charitable giving continue tithing off the top before you do anything be on a detailed written Budget on the every dollar app the two of you are in agreement on what we're doing I would temporarily stop the retirement savings

and I would clean up this debt in the next 12 to 18 months and then you don't have any payments but a house payment but this student loan's going to hang around so long you think it's a freaking pet yeah it's been around for you know 15 plus years now oh it's a fat pet

okay yeah this thing need Sally May's got Sally May's gotten to be a toxic bother she needs to go may my gosh yes

yes and we've gotten it down I mean no you hadn't you still owe 58 don't tell me you guys it's $588,000 you you you need to attack this with complete focus and temporarily for a short period of time year to a year and a half I'd stop my retirement and I would attack that with a Vengeance like my hair was on fire and

uh if you do that I mean you put 30,000 a year on it you'll be done in 2 years you put 60,000 a year on it you're done in one year so somewhere between those two is probably where you're going to land and I'd really dial it up and get after it kiddo this is the Ramsey [Music]

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[Music] more

[Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today our last caller 40 years old with

a student loan that's been around forever still hanging out with a student loan at 40 $58,000 student loan um and

of course we are most of us aware anyway that student loan interest restarted September 1 and the payments will start in a couple of weeks here again in October so we've got um somewhere around

44 million Americans with 1.7 trillion

dollar in debt that have this uh train barreling down the tracks at you so we

decided to help out because the name of our company is Ramsey Solutions so we need to give some solutions not just um not just squawking about it so we're going to do that tonight if you want to join us 7 p.m. tonight Tuesday night September the 12th we are doing a live

stream it's completely free it is me

Jade warshaw and Rachel Cruz we're going to be talking about student loan debt in

America how we got here and how we're going going to get out uh it'll be in four or five hours from right now if you're listening to us live but it is at 700 p.m. central Time Tuesday night September the 12th it's free just go to ramsy solutions.com studentloans and you can put in your email address and uh you'll be able to give the live stream a free watch we'll send you the link pretty simple Patricia is up next in Rono Virginia hi Patricia

how are you good thank you I have a question

about my auto okay so my question is my lease is coming up um I went to the dealership and the amount to buy it out is

$27,000 now um I don't know if I should

just go ahead and buy the car or get a cheaper car and and be just kind of like

Dead free because I will still have the

mortgage you have any money

uh I do have a savings of $30,000 okay um what is the car

worth uh 28,000 so $1,000 over the price

yeah so it's no bargain it's an okay deal but you can probably get that deal on a used car a lot so there's there's nothing that says to buy this car if you were sitting with um no car right now

and you told me you had $30,000 I would not tell you to buy a $28,000 car mhm cuz you only have $30,000 that

would be using up all of your money you see what I'm saying yeah so I'm going to toss them the keys when this lease is up and go buy you about a $10,000 car what do you make a year uh it depends but the minimum

55,000 it depends how much I work to be honest yeah well the maximum car you ought to buy would be uh 50% of your

income so that puts you at about you know 25,000 bucks but that's too much car because you don't have the money so if I woke up in your shoes I would have no car payment and be driving a very nice gently experienced $10,000 car now

the difference in a $10,000 car and a $30,000 car is pretty substantial but it's not it's not like it's unreliable it's not like it's not safe it's not like it's any of those things what is unreliable is being broke what is unsafe is being broke and $2,000

with a $30,000 car when you make 65,000 is broke I wouldn't put you there so I

wouldn't buy that car and I wouldn't buy anything anywhere near that price uh now if you told me you had 100,000 in savings yeah and you love this car maybe

but uh even then it's a lot of car for

someone with your income lot lot of money tied up yeah I I I've been shopping Dave you know this for teenagers you can get really decent cars

uh in the10 to 122,000 range even in in this so-called you know used car inflationary period you can do it you just have to swallow your pride and go wait a second I'd rather have more money than soall pride and you can get really decent cars that are functional and still in good shape it's very doable I look all the time I got two more to buy

next year I'm a used car expert Dave at least I'm self-proclaimed you know but I mean that's reality well you're finding stuff out there that's safe yes it's got a lot of life left in it it's not filthy trash on the I mean $15,000 car is not a hoopie no you know that's a nice car I

just got my son Ty a Ford Explorer 2012 Ford Explorer just give you an example $122,000 bought it from a nice local businessman had it in his it's HVAC if I said the name you'd know him and it was sitting in their parking lot they've treated it wonderfully it's in phenomenal shape his eyes about bugged out of his head and mine too I didn't expect to get any something that nice at that price range

but uh it's a fantastic car barely over 100,000 miles wow so I me got a lot of years left this isn't fantasy I'm not just saying this it's it's doable yeah that's what we would do in your shoes Kennedy is in

Indianapolis hi Kennedy how are you I'm

good how are you better than I deserve what's up um okay so this is actually for Ken

um more so so I applied for I'm and I'm

in a position I've been in it for a year and a half I meet all the qualifications to promoted to a senior position per the

guidelines that my job laid out the only thing I'm missing is the year and a half

of in the same position I've worked for the company for almost five years come February but I've been in this position for a year and a half they want me to be in it for three but I have all the other qualifications and they're like we're sorry we can't do anything because you don't have the extra year and a half so you just have to sit there for a year

and a half before we will promote you I don't know how to get around that I'm doing everything extra I listened to you a couple days ago and you were like you know just I asked my boss hey I want to be promoted I want to be a manager this is what I want to do what do I have to do to get it and she said you've got to wait

the year and a half yeah so there anything I can do no you have to decide

do you want to be there do you want to work there because they have laid out for you what is required and you know listen this is this is the tension between patience and persistence you know we want to move forward we want progress but it requires patience and so now they've laid it out very clearly for in fact I'll be honest with you I I'm really impressed that

they held the line on what they prefer I'm not they sound like a bunch of idiot bureaucrats well then there's Dave's opinion I mean really I mean why would you the woman the woman's been there five years she'd be promoted at Ramsey well but we don't know anything about the organization she meets all the other qualifications the only thing she hadn't done is sit on her butt in that one role for for a year

and a half all right so let me clarify I don't necessarily have to agree with it I respect the fact that they were clear and they've held the line and they're consistent so the point is they communicated clearly to you is what I was saying and I respect which gives you the opportunity to leave so now you get to decide do you want to wait another year

and a half or do you want to move on so so here's the ultimate if you knew

that they changed their mind today would you be super excited about the present and the future with this comp well then I love this I love the company it's just I I don't want to be stuck in the same role I am I want to get promoted I feel like I've deserve to get promoted because I have ask you this above all right let me ask you this yeah do do you agree with Dave that their uh that their uh requirement is it arbitrary or or do

they tie it to actual hours I don't even know what you do is it arbitrary or is it legit um what that they require three

years of experience so in their requirement have

eight different sections and you have to meet bu 50 50% in eight of those sections and then the requirement is minimum of three years in the same position doing the same role and I have

that from like outside experience but not three years with this company so not three years with them okay I get it all right I get what Dave is saying but she's been there five years yeah I think you should get the gig I've been with them for five years yeah listen I agree with Dave you should get the gig but I at least appreciate they've told you

so now you got to deal with it I don't think you being the squeaky Wheels going to change their policy some people in some companies like policy more than they do princip big company too of course yes guaranteed yeah it's a it's a policy over principle they have more rules than sense that's all they do they don't think well wait a second this lady's got this experience outside of here

she more than meets the require that's not the way they think so you got to decide do I want to be here and deal with the way they think or do I want to move on unfortunately that's what you're left with yeah I agreed agree great I mean they do have the right to do that it's their right they own it yeah and you know sometimes people don't agree with stuff

I do here and it's got my name on the billing though I do whatever I want to do that's right you don't have to agree with it but and then sometimes they leave because they don't agree with it and that's an option that's an option too Yep this is the ramsy

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hey it's Ken if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramsy solutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation again that's ramsy solutions.com and click get

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live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us America I'm Dave Ramsey your host Ken Coleman Ramsey personality host of the Ken Coleman show and author of the number one selling book from paycheck to

purpose where he helps people with their careers their jobs and their work and he's going to be doing that today right here on the Ramsey Show phone number here is 88255 225 Louisa is with us in

Washington DC hi Louisa how are you good

afternoon so great to be speaking with you today thank you so much for taking my call thank you what's up all right

I've got a what would Dave do scenario and I'm pretty sure I know what you're going to say but I'll kind of just want to walk through some options I have and it's concerning my mortgage so little bit of background um I have an arm um that resets every November and um it

hasn't really been you know much of an issue until recently obviously because the rates have gone up so it is resetting from 4 and a half to six and a half percent joyful um yep the balance

on the loan is 999,000 I've actually paid off 52,000 in the last year and I

am on track to pay this off my goal is December of 2025 okay so here are the scenarios I

just want to walk through want to get your thought um option one is just to

you know STI stick with you know stick with the the new payment coming up in November uh my payment is actually going down $180 even with the rate going up

because I've paid off so much so it's actually going down um $180 so that's

option one is just proceeding with you know six and a half% um and then you know would the rate would reset you know next year option

two is a recast and I've kind of read

where you're not a big fan of a mortgage recast um and want to get your thoughts on this so obviously the rate would stay the same six and a half percent um this

would require a $220,000 payment um by

the end of October and that would lower the payment $140 a month okay um so

that's option two and then why would you want to lower it if you're paying it off in two years what's the benefit well I I guess that's where I I

I think I don't I don't understand it's like we're trying to pay it off in two years or two and a half years right right so why how does lowering the payment accomplish that um I mean it's lowering the interest that I'm paying it's not that would be no it's not um if you recast you're going to recast at a lower interest rate no I'm

recasting I'm taking it from a balance of 999,000 to oh it would lower the

balance yeah but you could do that anyway you don't have to recast to do that yes I could and that's what I've been doing is just recast all recasting does is reset the payment based on a longer term it doesn't change the interest charged right right okay so

there's no benefit to you mathematically to recast okay given that you're planning to pay it off in two years yes correct

and here's the other thing is that I I don't have $20,000 just sitting around right there's that right exactly so that kind of brings me to option three um and let me let me just preface this by saying I heard you about a year and a half ago maybe two years ago before the rates you know were creeping up because I was going to re refinance and

I remember you telling a caller don't refinance if you can pay it off in three years so I kind of went with that model and I'm I'm on I'm on target I'm on track to pay this off and that that is really why I did not refinance um but option three would

be digging into my brokerage account and

paying it off entirely I have I have about $200,000 I'd have to cash you know

not in a retirement you have a brokerage account sitting there with enough to pay it off yes I do pay it off

today and yeah I knew you knew I was GNA do that I I did I did I still wanted to

walk through the options okay so if if you had a paid for home with a brokerage

account with $100,000 Less in it would you go borrow $99,000 on your home paid

for home to put more money in your brokerage account no it's the same

thing yeah yeah I think I think I'm just

having some

let me tell you what's going to happen all right that you don't anticipate because I've been the other side of it myself and with a whole bunch of other people you do not understand

when you pay this off and you walk out in the backyard with no shoes on that the grass is going to feel so much different there's going to be a level of Peace blow through your home like a nice

cool wind that you don't even know is

coming when you owe no man

nothing all this hand ringing you've been doing for the last few minutes trying to figure out what to do all that's gone just clean and simple you just own

your house you're weird I love

it I love it and listen if you really

hate it then go get your new mortgage

yeah but I don't think you're going to hate it I think you're going to feel freedom that you have not felt in your adult life yep and I know that from the having

experienced it myself because I don't have any dad and haven't had for 30 years and I walk around without all of

these weights on my shoulders and um that that a lot of people have and I get to make different decisions and have a different level of calm in the middle of a storm and all of

that pay off your house Louisa please I

promise you you won't regret it but if I'm completely Bonkers and you do regret it you can always go get you another mortgage and theoretically put it back at The Brokerage there's a fear there you could hear it yeah well no it's just this angst of the devil I know yeah

that's right the devil I know versus the peace I've never known and um it's I

don't know if I'm doing something wrong I don't know if which is the correct thing and let me just tell you man when you get no payments in the whole

freaking world financial

peace two words that don't go together like Airline service man wow like Postal Service sorry to you

postal people oh my gosh sorry to you Airline people I mean really I mean it's financial piece two words that don't go together I mean I've got money and a brokerage I've got my emergency fun I've

got retirement going and I own my whole

freaking house some of you need to breathe that in and make that a goal some of you spend a lot of calories

flipping stuff over in your head ringing your hands trying to figure out something when the answers are usually pretty simple clean it up people simp

simplify simplify that's it simplify yeah hard to beat guys hard to

beat this is the Ramsey

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today our question of the day

for the ramsy show is sponsored by neighborly your hub for home services from repairs and maintenance to Remodeling and upgrades neighborly trusted home service providers have trained local experts who can handle almost any job so go to neighbor.com to

find and schedule service today today's question comes from Roger in South Carolina I'm a 20-year-old male currently studying aerospace engineering I know the Aerospace industry is very cyclical so I was wondering if having a one-year salary emergency fund would be a good idea before having kids well I'm

sitting next to the guy who uh created the concept I I don't think a year is necessary and and I don't know enough to understand why he believes the Aerospace industry is so cyclical but

six months uh if you're in kind of a a

Topsy Turvy industry like that I think would be good I I don't hate having a one-year emergency fund but is it necessary no with credential Roger you're an engineer you over analyze things your job is to perceive risk and

so you see risk everywhere but there's not that much risk you will be fine if you have an aerospace engineering degree you will be able to get a job and feed your family sometime in the six-month period yeah six months is fine but um and here's the other thing the more money you put into that the slower you build wealth the faster

you build wealth the less you worry about an emergency fund if you got a million dollars in a mutual fund and $5,000 in mutual in an emergency fund you don't have enough in your emergency fund but you got a million dollars in a mutual fund so you're going to be okay yeah you know mean So the faster you build wealth the less you have to worry about any of this so you're going to be just fine Tom's in St Paul Minnesota hi

Tom welcome to the Ramsey Show hey DAV and Ken I just want to say starting off um your principles have you know changed my wife my wife's life in my life so just want to thank you guys for your ministry thank you how can we help yeah um so so uh so getting to my question a little bit of context um last month I actually called Ken uh called Ken on his show

and I was just laid off from my mortgage loan officer job actually working at Wells Fargo and uh I was looking for places to basically trying to figure out references and Ken gave me great advice and a month later I now have a job at a Toyota dealership um selling cars so really exciting uh I

guess my main question is is a lot of people are coming in they're financing their car uh they're leasing their car s in fact you know there's some incentive for us to push leases just because from our standpoint you know that creates repeat customers now none of this stuff is stuff that I would recommend to my loved ones I would never do it myself um is there am I in the wrong if I'm in a

position where I'm where I'm sometimes selling these if if so should I consider changing jobs or what what are your thoughts well I don't you're not ethically doing anything wrong this is not an illegal activity but because you don't believe in it we don't believe in it either but this is about your principles eventually this is going to eat away at you so shortterm uh I I I would be looking for

something to make a transition because long term this will eat away at you and listen you know I talk about engagement all the time I study the data listen a person who doesn't believe in the mission the product the service of a company is not going to be fully engaged

and that has a lot of negative effects Financial opportunities for you promotional opportunities it affects your health your mental health and Beyond so I think long term if I'm a guy like you that has a strong principle conviction that you have I would eventually move on from selling something that you just don't believe in yeah it's it's not something you have to run out of the hair building today like your hair's on fire like

you discovered the boss had 20 pounds of cocaine in his office you don't you don't hang out there another day okay that's not what's going on this is uh you know a

disagreement of how the product works and so uh Rabbi Lapin talks about the

his book He's my good friend Orthodox Jewish rabbi and he wrote a book called Thou shalt prosper and um the book is

the 10 reasons that Jewish people have had an inordinate probability of s being

financially successful in any point in human history they tend to thrive and why is that one of the things is they believe that making money is an honorable thing if you're doing an honorable thing and uh one of the things he points out in that chapter it's one of the 10 things is that it's uh if you're doing something that's psychologically incompatible with your belief system it's very difficult to be good at

it and so you you know back that's another way of saying exactly what Ken said and so yeah I'm completely aligned with what Coleman is saying here if I were in your shoes I would say I'm going to give myself 60 days and I'm going to be somewhere else MH um because they're

the the they are going to sell car leases because they make more money on car not because of repeat customers but because they make more money on car leases than they do on the actual sale of the car and they make more money on car leases than they do if they do a regular Finance plan with a bank and uh

they make more money on car leases than they do just about anything else it's the one of the most profitable parts of the entire Auto industry now and so it's

massively profitable for them this paper is amazing and so they're they're not only going not going to to not stop it they're going to push it because it's where they make their money and so that's how it is it's like there's a a series of Articles have gone around the last few years that if you work at Victoria Secret selling uh small

underwear right you you have to sell a

certain number of Victoria's Secret credit cards or they will not give you hours oh okay because they're in more in

the credit card business than they are the small underwear business right right small underwear is there just to get you into the credit card debt interesting into big debt small underwear big debt there it is so there you go that's how that's a great slogan you you to you to box that one up and sell it you anyway yeah that's so but if you if you want to work

there in that store in the retail store uh you're not going to get ours you're not going to be promoted if you don't sell credit cards even if you sell a whole bunch of small underwear and you don't sell any credit cards you're going to be on the street they they you know but that's the business they're in they know where their money is coming from they know what

the profit centers are and they're going to drive you that way so then you've got to decide as an employee are you going to plug into that and I think you've already decided oh sure Tom I think he's already on he already decided and just once permission is this silly no it's not silly at all no it's smart Brian is in Jacksonville Florida hey Brian welcome to

the Ramsey Show hey Dave how you doing today better than I deserve what's up oh glad to hear it um I have a question for you um I'll give you a little background information on myself um I'm 40y old I have two kids

my wife's a stay home mom we own a town home we ow we owe about 55,000 left on it uh my wife has some savings around

60k and I'm debating whether I should use that money to pay up the house or if I should invest it um like in an IRA or something for the future um but the thing is we're in a small town home and we're looking to get some a little bit more a little bit more space for you know for the family cuz kids are sharing a room I got a boy

and a girl when are you when are you mov we're not moving at all yet we just we like to get another property because we like to have what mean is two years or a year or 10 minutes oh it probably be next couple years three years pay it off pay it off today okay today the

reason I asked is my financial advisor tells me not to because he says my interest rate in my home is going to be less than what I'd be making in the stock market that's why I figured guess what he didn't make a dime

when you pay off the house he makes a commission when you invest the money with him I understand that hello okay

ding ding ding ding and I didn't make a dime either way so you do whatever you want to do but if I woke up in your shoes I'd have a paid for house now you need to get yourself on a budget and you need to sit down with another financial adviser that's not giving you stupid butt advice and get you an IRA started and get your kids four get your kids 529 started

and let's get some investing going and get yourself on a budget with your wife and the two of you working together let's get detailed and dial this money stuff in man cuz it's kind of feels like you're Loosey Goosey running out here just trying to figure this out as you go and you need to dial it in and make sure every dollar is barking every dollar is doing what it's supposed to do

so getting the every dollar app getting Financial Peace University do that kind of stuff but uh if I woke up in your shoes I'd pay my house off today dude just like that no question the this is the ramsy

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America if you like what you hear around here you could help us out and we'd appreciate it click the follow button the Subscribe button the share button

share the show share a link tell people where you're listening on talk radio or TBN or whatever it is spread the word about the show and leave a five star review they're very helpful all of those things the share the like the uh subscribe the follow all of those things really push the show to the front of the

algorithms and cause people to find us and it doesn't cost you a thing and we would appreciate the help thank you very much Trevor is in Salt Lake City hi

Trevor welcome to the Ramsey Show thanks for having me Dave I really appreciate it sure um I grew up watching grew up listening to your show with my parents so huge fan of yours well thank you I got a qu I got a question for you

um regarding um either reinvesting in my

business or purchasing a home and I can give you a little bit of information about it so I'm 23 years old I'm getting married in a week wow and I thank you

good for you congrats thank you um between me and my

fiance we have about $50,000 in our savings account uh we have no debt um my

business has about $75,000 in asset

um as well as I have about $25,000 in Investments mutual funds CDs stuff like that um and I'm just wondering with your expert opinion what I should do if I should reinvest in my business um to continue to grow it or whether or not I should look into purchase purchasing a home at how much do you need to reinvest in the business and why um so the reason I'm reinvesting in my business

I just bought a new skider I do landscaping um I've been able to pay everything cash trailers equipment um I just got a new skit and I'm looking to purchase a second truck um I have three

employees um so looking to have a second truck for them as well as a new trailer um and just upgrading some of our mowing equipment and stuff like that okay if you spend that money you're going to spend what 20 30,000 bucks

correct and what does that cause you to make because you spent that that you wouldn't make if you didn't spend it okay so this uh I'm anticipating this year to make back 80,000 um that's after

uh taxes everything um and I'm anticipating if I can get that reinvestment um I can make an additional 20 to 30 um so you can make the money

back any year next year um yes probably

you spend 20 or 30 you make an extra 20 or 30 as a result correct okay and

sounds like you got $75,000 um correct and that's in equipment and you make uh trailers no no no you you have 75,000 cash you have 25 in a mutual fund and 50 in your account right uh yeah approximately all right

and uh what does your wife make um she makes about 40 a year and

you're going to net on your business 100 uh no I'm anticipating 80 this year

I reinvested quite a bit this year I just bought the skider about two weeks ago um so that ran me a little bit and I do owe um the only debt I have is I my

father who um was gifted me 15,000

towards my skider I bought so I'm going to pay him back was that a gift or alone uh alone more or less well that's

an interesting piece of information for a guy for 10 minutes has been telling me he was debt free you're not debt free you owe your dad 15 grand no you're not going to invest in your business you're going to be paying your dad back I'm I will pay it off in

the next month no today you have the money in your account right now you shouldn't have taken it from him in the first place you got 50,000 bucks you need to

borrow 15,000 from your dad correct I just wanted to keep some money in an emergency fund where where I am self-employed I just and getting married I wanted to be able to have the money shouldn't have bought a

sker if you need the money if you need the money for an emergency fund you shouldn't have bought a skid steer but you bought one now and now you got a loan and now you got to pay it off I'd pay that off today uh and then what I would do is get married and spend the first year of your marriage piling up cash for a good down payment on a house

and after you've been married a year you will make a different purchase than after you've been married a week it's a different house it takes a

year of being married to know how close to your mother-in-law or your father-in-law who loaned you money for skid steers that you want to live how close do you want to live with these people yeah it takes a year to figure that out so um it's a joke but not

really yeah I I was going to say a lot of truth of that the other thing too is is there I would be challenging myself how can I make an additional $5 $20,000 a year over the next year of my business without spending 20 to 30 you know get Innovative um and and and especially in that first year of marriage he was already worried that's why he took

the loan out from his dad I believe yeah so Trevor you need to quit buying toys for your business that you haven't done a careful Roi on because you're not going to get an Roi on this skid steer that's bull crap you're not going to make enough on that thing to justify having purchased it you would have made you would have been better off buying mowing equipment to expand your operation than than with

the skid steer so quit buying

business toys that don't have very fast

large Roi stop it I had a friend of mine

that's in the building business and he bought a skid steer now I bought a skid steer the other day too did you really yeah there's one out at the farm for but I bought it for no reason at all except have the money it's a toy you like moving dir well I got my grandson in my lap digging up stuff that doesn't even need to be dug up all right

so this is embarrassing this won't surprise Dave at all but you guys are throwing skid steer around skid steer this skid I had to Google it real quick James a bobcat it's a bobcat I bet I would have know it's a bobcat on tracks it's pretty cool looking machine if it's on tracks it's a skid steer right so basically you papa Dave got his own real life Tonka it's a toy yeah that's exactly what

I did it is it's and good for you yeah it's fun cuz your grandson thinks that's really cool my God it's a giant there is no cooler Papa Dave in the world than one with a skid deer so what I'm hearing is live like an onl so later you can dig holes for no reason at all yes to make your

grandson happy that's the dream of every grandfather hey every four-year-old's dug a hole for no apparent reason and every 64 year-old apparently is going to do the same thing you never get over it I was going to say live like just so the public knows I'm not anti-skid steer okay I'm just saying but from a business perspective don't buy stuff that you can't Roi quickly every and I got to

tell you here's an interesting thing working with uh people on our trade leadership very few women do this in

business it's kind of a male thing yeah

it's a male stupid thing it's toys and they do it they do it with they do it with computers right the guys that do all this equipment stuff in here M I have to constantly go no we don't need another one right good God how many microphones do I need to own

seriously boys collect toys man there's just something about it and I I ladies they they're very careful but often times I have to get them to go the other way it's hard to get them to do the actual investment they need to do right to to because they're conservative on it but very few women in business collect toys like boys do and you know what's interesting I'll bet

you can prove this they're much more resourceful as well think about the mom who always makes the science project happen under the wire you know with a couple of straws you know a rubber band here it's like you can build that business that landscaping business without that new truck you can't you just got to be Innovative and that's where Innovation comes from is when we have a lack of resources Craig Grell talks about that a lot yeah in fact

he he's the one that it was mind-blowing I think I interviewed him years ago when I was hosting on trade leadership it's one of the best thoughts on Innovation that I've ever heard is from Craig Rochelle yeah it create a lack creates necessity to become creative on

how you're going to do it if you can't do it any other way and so that's why your dad did you no favor loaning you that money right so that's the thing so all that to pick on you Trevor because we love you and we want you to win so pay off your dad today uh get a little apartment and uh set up house and concentrate on loving each other not on stupid real estate deals for

the first year of your marriage and after you've been married a year and saved up a little more money above your emergency fund and you're truly debt-free and the next time you tell somebody you're debt free make sure you are uh

then uh then from there you pay you put

down with an a good strong down payment on a 15-year fixed after you've been married a year that's what I would do if I were in your shoes congratulations on the marriage this is the Ramsey

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[Applause] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thanks for hanging out with us America this is the Ramsey Show we're so glad you're here hey guys uh

George camel and the every dollar team are hosting a free live virtual training

for your budget yeah you're going to learn how to find more margin in your finances to spend without guilt and to make a budget that actually works first one is happening September the 19th at 12:30 Eastern Time spots are limited you

can pick one with George uh Jade warshaw is going to be doing some I think Rachel Cruz might be doing another one too so uh all these budgeting webinars are completely free go to every dollar

com/ budgeting and we'll help you get started with this stuff all right here we go Josh is in Orlando hi Josh welcome to the Ramsey Show hey never grow up especially if you can afford it right gentlemen that's right there's the plan what's up man okay so I have a pro and a

cons so here's my dilemma and I'm actually so I'm trying to get as debt free as I possibly can I have uh 17 No

about1 19 $20,000 in credit card debt

and then that's my primary and then my secondary is my auto loan which I'm about 11,000 upside down um And in

regards to my credit card um I have

18,000 in RSU uh shares for my company

and then I have $7,000 in a traditional IRA wanting to know if I should uh use

my stock to my use wanting to know if I should use both to pay off my credit card debt I would not use an IRA I would use your stock okay and the reason for not using the IRA penalties taxes okay leave those

alone and I would quit adding to the IRA and I would cut up the credit cards and never touch the stupid things again get a debit card do not even own a credit card okay 100 100% And then what about

the ra to where I cash it out I have it in a savings account you already have yeah I uh well I did I did the

transfer or I did the the part of the work but I haven't fully transferred it to my my personal savings

account when did you do this uh I did it last Friday to where it was effective for me to utilize today okay uh well you've got 60 days to

undo it without penalty and so I'm going to get go to ramseys solutions.com and click on smartvestor and find a smart Vestor Pro in the area to help you undo it and get it back into an IRA before you get hit with the penalties and the taxes how much was in that you said there's only like 7,000 in the account though right yeah it was only it was only seven yeah

so you're probably only going to lose three or 4,000 bucks but that's still a ridiculous I mean you're paying 40% interest effectively to get the money fre you up I would not do that I think it's a good practice for you to learn to leave that alone so let's roll that back into while you're in the 60-day window back get your an IRA set up with a with a smart Vestor Pro

and

um then then start your um I'm sorry

then cut up your credit cards and pay them all off and then you still got to clean up your auto loan that's your next thing so beans and rice rice and beans no adding to any Investments of any kind

and we're completely focused on clearing this debt that's the next process there

so good question open phones atle 8825

5225 Tyler is in Jacksonville Florida hi

Tyler welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave how's it going better than I deserve what's up yeah so I got a a little bit of a dilemma here with u some in-laws I guess

give you a backstory I'm married uh moved away from home and or I guess I

said in-laws but my my parents um moved

away from home and you know they're my mother's not in a great financial situation um she hasn't been working um

and and has some tax issues from a past business and she's asking to borrow some

money to make a house payment and um you know I feel led to um but I'm also trying to talk to her in in the nicest

way possible to try to sort out a longer

term plan than you know make a payment and then what do we do next month and what do we do next month uh my siblings uh aren't as financially capable to to help so I feel like how old are you Tyler falling to me what was that how old old are you uh 28 how old is your

mother um 57 okay on what planet is the 28y old

supposed to take care of the 57y old that was too trifling to do it

herself it's not your job man it's not your job yep and I bet your wife isn't happy with this either um no no what do you

um combined we're making probably 250

260 you're making bank aren't you good for you okay what is your mom doing

nothing calling Tyler for money she not

working at all no not no not currently uh well take

me back when when when was she

working um it's been a while um she she

had a housing housing company quite a

while ago and why is she not

working um um not a there's not a good reason I

guess I don't think so either okay so you giving her money is not sustainable because you were correct in your wisdom when you observed that you're going to be doing it again next month and next month and next month and next month because you're enabling her bad behavior

yeah instead what I would do is come alongside her and say Mom mom I'm going to be your biggest cheerleader I'm going to give you some suggestions and some help and show you what to do so you can straighten this out first thing we're going to do is we're going to get into Ken Coleman's book uh from paycheck to purpose and we're going to get you a job

and a career and then I'm going to put you on to every dollar on a budget and you're going to make money and pay your own bills and you're going to like yourself more when you do that I am not

going to pay your bills mom but I will be here for you you I love you and I will help you figure out a way to pay your bills and she's not going to like that Tyler because she likes doing

nothing yeah yeah I think that could be the case yeah she's GNA get angry with you and she's going to become a travel agent with for guilt trips which is what codependent people do when their enaer Cuts them off yeah yeah I'm sorry this is going to

be tough but you're being very wise I'm not trying to just be mean to your mom I'm disrespecting her I'm disrespecting her because her behaviors are awful but

I'm not trying to be mean to her she needs to change her behavior so that she has a quality life she's 58 freaking years old there's nothing wrong with this woman she could get a job and pay her bills instead of mooching off her 28-year-old son and so she it's good for her she's going to like herself better all the other brothers and sisters are going to like her better um everybody's going to

be a lot happier when Mom gets her crap together am I missing something no no I think that's right I just yeah kind of what you said just trying to figure out the the best way to go about it without you know being mean I guess you're not being mean when you

don't give a drunk a drink it's not good for a drunk to have a bottle of Jack Daniels it's not good for a heroin addict to be to be loaded up with Heroin it's not good for them they don't like it when you tell them no but it's not good for them this is not good for your mom loving your mom

well is helping her get a life that is

not filled with chaos A Life That's not filled with uncertainty and A Life That's not un that's not sustainable and it doesn't have any dignity and so um now again I don't you

you're not being mean now she's going to tell you you're being mean that's so mean you have plenty of money what's wrong with you Tyler I raised you you can give me a little that's what it sounds like yeah that's exactly what it's going to sound like coming back at you that's called a travel agent for guilt trips she's going to pitch one on you I'd be more worried about upsetting my wife than

I would be upsetting my mom and I think that's what this is going to come down I would be worried that I'm doing harm to my own mother who I love there's that too and when you support the misbehavior you're doing harm to them enablers are not

helpers they're cowards who won't say no

that's what they are don't be a coward love her well enough that you help her for real hel her and if you want to put her through Financial Peace University you call our team will give it to you this is the ramsy [Music]

show hey it's Ken if you love The Show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey Way go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

[Music]

Newsletter [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today the phone number here is 88255 225 thank you for joining us Robin

is in Phoenix hi Robin welcome to the ramsy show hi thank you gentlemen for taking my call sure I am going to retire in about

three years at 76 I have no mutual fund and no

401K my question is should I buy or rent

at that time at

76 okay how would you be able to buy if

you don't have any money yeah well I've got these I've got

time so currently my income is 4500 a

month 2K is going to rent 2K is going to

student loans and five and I spend 500

on um daily on debt living you know

living expenses you you're 70 years old

and you have a student loan yes yes I haven't p off yet but I

will pay it off it expected to be paid

off in March of

24 okay what's the balance on it 12,000 wow so I'm paying 2,000 a

month on that 2K 2K month all right I

I'm really curious how you end up with a student loan at your age how did you do

that well that's called paying the interest i i p paid the interest only

for a long time so what's a long

time um since since 2020 since 2005 I guess

that's when I graduated you graduated in in 05 so you graduated 20 years or 18

years ago and you've been paying and your degree is in what or that that particular degree that

I've got some more since that time but that particular degree was in Communications okay all right and what do you do for a living I'm a Quality Inspector okay wow all right

um the the thing that runs through my head is this uh obviously you at

retirement have to have monthly money to pay uh an electric bill and buy food and uh provide shelter

okay uh the largest line item in your

budget for the rest of your life if you live to b95 another 20 something years

is going to be um

housing and if you're renting your cost

of housing is going to go up every year because rent always goes up does that

make sense yes if you buy at least you're

locked end to what you're going to be spending on housing from this point

forward so buying is good having a paid

off home by the time you get there is even better and of course having a nest egg to live on so do you have a pension

in the background of this or are you counting on just Social Security to feed you no um I'll finish the rest um so

right currently what I have is a universal life policy that has a cash

value approximately 9,000 in it I'm reluctant to cash it out because it has

a long-term care Rider of a of 50 months

on it at 4% so that's going to give me

uh 15 about 1,500 a month just for that

now as I share um at the End by the time

I retire I will have a approximately

$500 in pension and 2500 I'm guessing

2500 in Social Security which you give me 3,000 and and you have no money in

savings at all my,

$1,000,000 okay all right I want you to

cash the universal in and pay the student loan down and let's be done with a student loan very quickly let's get that in the background as soon as possible so we can try to accomplish a couple of these other goals which is housing and start to build some kind of a nest egg over the next 3 years so basically you're going to live on beans and rice for

the next 3 years while you throw as much money towards housing buying a home and as much money towards a nest egg as you can throw and both of those are going to be better moves than a bad Universal policy so we've got to get the student loan in your rearview mirror to pull that

off get the student loan in your rearview mirror build an emergency fund and then start saving for a down payment while you're putting at least 15% of your income or more into retirement and I want you to save as much as you can save for retirement while putting down as much as you can put down on a house and and when you do buy a home I want

you to buy a very modest a very inexpensive property I am more concerned that you have basic shelter that is locked in on its monthly cost than I am you having a home that you are necessarily thrilled with okay that makes sense yeah I want

to stabilize I'm trying to stabilize your future that's what I'm that's my first goal your luxury or your comfort are secondary but stabilizing the shelter aspects over your future next 20 years is really what I got to lean on

and uh wow wow well the the good news is I

think you can actually make a pretty good dent in 36 months on this if you'll be very focused um I think that might be one of the oldest St student loan debt callers I've had it it's it's mindboggling I'm sitting there listening to that and because we're having the student loan live stream tonight uh it's absolutely free uh Ramsey solutions.com 7M Central

8 Eastern it's important to point out that she is and I don't throw this word around lightly you know this Dave she's a victim of this cultural message that

has said if you get a degree you're going to get a raise and sometimes that's true many times it's not and she kept getting was in Communications and I'm not in

Communications exactly she's in quality assurance and so you got to be careful these degrees don't come with jobs you still got to go out and find them get them and perform them well and I I'm not I'm not trying to be unkind but there are so many people that still believe uh you go through a layoff at 45 or at 50 you go I got to go get more education maybe but probably not probably not yeah

not at the cost of sitting at 70 years old St student loan debt no and see that's the exchange that makes me so angry about and let me just be honest let me be an equal opportunity offender folks both sides of the political aisle are in the business of student loans it's big business it's a lot of money and no one's talking about legislation or regulation to stop it to stop it and to take on the unbelievable inflation in

the world of tuition is not doing a service no you people in government are

not helping that's right the population

you are harming the people that you're call called to govern it's a hidden tax Dave and and people are getting filthy

stinking rich off the backs of people like her and it's really does need to stop it really I mean seriously would somebody grow a leadership backbone and send it to Washington DC this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

[Music]

[Music] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Dr John delone has a brand new book coming out called building a non-anxious life you can pre-order the book right now for $20 and you'll get $75 in bonus items nearly half the US

population says their lives are affected by anxiety stress burnout it's everywhere but here's the thing anxiety isn't actually the problem it's the symptom the problem is we're unsafe disconnected healthy living like we have no say and what happens next and in this book Dr deloney walks you through six daily choices to recognize and break

free from A Life That's spinning out of control it is amazing this book is

selling like hot cakes too and we it comes out technically October 3rd if you pre-order you get $75 in bonus items which is includes instant access to one of Dr John's talks newest talks smoke fire and freedom that is a great talk and also you're going to get the ebook and the audio book Ramy solutions.com building a nonanxious

life Christopher is in Corpus Christie

Texas hi Christopher welcome to the Ramsey Show hey DAV Ken thank you for having me on sure what's up so give you a quick backstory I'm

recently engaged our wedding is in June I have a full-time job making 34,000 a year I also go to school full-time to be a radiology tech I have no debt and I have an emergency phont of 20K me and my fiance are on the same page about not going into debt for the wedding and not spending more than 5K on our budget for the wedding I recently made

it to step four but I'm confused if I should be investing 15% while also saving for a wedding and bouncing out a home no you ought to be saving for the wedding and for your education until you're married don't worry about a home and don't worry about retirement right now okay okay you'll get you got time to get to both right now you need to get married pay cash for

the wedding and uh

even if you Bo beef up the budget a little bit that's okay your budget's not out of control on this wedding and um

make sure you get through the school and pay cash for all of it so you need the margin in your life to just be piling up cash right now until June right yeah let's let's worry about it retirement and worry about buying a house a year or two from now

okay so I should just be saving for the wedding and for your life yeah just pile

up money right now I want you to get I want you to get your education finished I want you to get married lower lower stress on both of these with a big old pile of cash and then when you get out and the wedding is over if you've got a little money left over that's your head start start towards your emergency fund and towards your down payment

but you're there's no don't don't you're putting too much pressure on yourself to try to do all these things at once okay you got time man you got time how old are you I'm 24 you got plenty of time you're gonna be okay Christ I can hear your brain you're processing what Dave's saying but it's it you're something's got you hung up what's going

on nothing I just you're just goal

oriented yeah I guess you could say that but I I started school late so uh I just

I'm doing my Basics right now and my remedial courses so I feel like I kind of started late in the game so you feel like you're behind yeah you're not yeah you're not you're not you're you're way ahead because you actually know what you want to do that's right and you got and

you're running down a very clearly defined track your plan you laid it out perfectly in just a few moments on the air here in front of 20 million people that that's impressive I mean you really that's a great job you're doing a whole lot better than it feels like you're doing you're going to get to the other things I'm not saying don't do them I'm just saying don't worry about them now a year from now two years from now we'll worry about those right now pay cash for

the wedding finish your degree pay cash for that pile up money it's all you need to do right now that and that's plenty that's plenty making 34k that's a big enough task as it is yeah you can do it all but not at the same time and I think that's pretty much true uh in any area of life so you're going to be okay and give yourself a break

I there's I can feel him beating up on himself a little bit I'm behind I'm behind yeah no you'll be okay you're not the fact of the matter is with our plan you're going to catch up with a lot of people you're probably by March yeah

but you know why he's a tortoise and he's focused and the Tortoise always wins that race every time you're exactly right Jeremy's in Houston hi Jeremy welcome to the Ramsey Show hi thanks for having me sure what's up yeah so my

primary question today uh and I probably just need to hear you say it is trying to work out how much house I can really afford because when I start to look at the numbers I I begin to feel like maybe I'm going a little bit crazy and then it just kind of spirals into should I ever even think about buying a place or should I rent

forever well that's a false narrative you don't have to rent forever that's not a real option you know that that's just drama queen right well no oh so I

don't mean to sound dramatic actually I don't necessar but I mean that happens we have a little drama all of us have a little drama in our head and that one's that when you spiral out like that that's the little drama queen in your head I mean you know you're not going to rent forever and you know that's dumb because rent goes up every year so renting is a good short-term plan

but it's not a good long-term plan you already knew that right I I sort of I sort of knew that but I didn't actually feel that renting was necessarily I don't mean it in negative connotation oh it's negative it's not a good idea long term I'll give it to you negative it's here's why it's negative it's not because it's a class status thing it's because your cost of housing goes up every year for 45 or 50 years you're going to pay more every single year

if you rent and and that's that's a death nail to your finances versus if you own the value of the home

is going up and if you're making a payment on a fixed rate 15year that we

tell you to do the payment is locked in the only reason it would change is taxes and insurance but it won't change otherwise and so you've locked in the largest line item in your budget which is housing and it's going up in value versus nothing is going up in value when you're renting longterm and it and your rent goes up every stinking year the largest line item in your budget takes up more of your money every year

so you don't want to do that long term but you may want to do it for a year or two while you get some other things done like getting out of debt and getting your emergency fund in place and and then um let me just tell you uh one of

the things you experience when you learn to live debt-free is is that you are living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else and when you live within a reasonable Budget on housing there's going to be people around you that are buying a nicer house on a 30-year adjustable rate

mortgage maxing themselves out where they can't breathe and they're taking on a house payment that is crazy as a

percentage of their income and and they don't make any more than you make and it looks like they're winning they're not winning they're destroying themselves

and meanwhile you're over here uh in in

a much more modest property feeling like you're losing and the reality is you're winning does that any of that sound right no it does sound right and and you

know the numbers make me feel a little bit crazy because I feel like I earn a pretty good living my situation I make after taxes about 140

Thou after taxes after 401K about 140,000 a year okay well we say say put

a 15year fixed rate no more than a fourth of your take-home pay and that's not counting 401K that's just taxes coming out of your take-home pay so what's your take-home pay not counting for a1k and a 15-year fixed rate

interest rates are higher now than they were this time last year obviously uh the good that's the bad news the good news is that that um you know well

there's a shortage of housing so we're still seeing house prices go up but you can find a house you probably can get a seller to give you some atten right now inventory is really low but um which is holding the prices up but the um but if

you can find a house you know if you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund you have a good down payment you're going to buy something more conservative than your peers no question about it yeah but again it's not it's it's the long game that's the definition of winning is not don't follow your broke friends right it's not how fast you come out of the gate it's how you finish and and got to remember that it's so you're not making 500 a year you're making 140

a year I mean it's a lot of money it's a

lot it's double the household income average but it's only double it's not 4X

and it's not 6X so you know average

house price in your area plus a little that's what you're going to be getting this is the ramsy

show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

Solutions on the debt free stage Nick and Laura are with us hey guys how are you good how are you Dave better than I deserve where do you guys live San Bernardino California oh fun welcome to Nashville and here to do a debt free scream how much have you paid off 223,000 I love it and how long did that take 99 months 99 months look at you and

uh your range of income during that 99 months we started at 71,000 and ended at

195 very cool what do you'all do for a living well I am a homeschool mom and I also do real estate on the side mhm and I work for the County local government there okay very good well you guys are doing well so 99 months 223 is this your

house this is everything Dave 1 to 7 paid off the house everything look at it weird people yep I mean you live in freaking San Bernardino California and have a paid for house yes this is a big deal what's this house worth little over 600,000 I bet it is I love it congratulations ding ding

how much you guys got in your Investments for retirement so forth uh we have about 150 in roths and about 200

in a pension all right so that puts you at millionaire status doesn't it baby steps millionaires right on the line anyway yeah really close if we throw in the furniture we're there yeah all right there's not much Furniture

Dave way to go guys congratulations how

old are you 42 42 42 and a paid for

house and basically C baby steps millionaires I'm so proud of y'all thank you tell us the story what happened 99 months ago how'd you get connected to this ramsy stuff well we uh I listened

to you when I was younger um probably when we were both younger Dave um and I

was doing good and and uh we were moving in the right direction I worked for a bank and we went South we went on the borrowing Trend and uh we borrowed everything we could we wood burning stoves credit cards everything else you can do somewhere along the lines we just started going negative every month every month we were you know we were losing money we were just not saving

we were just going red red red red red until one day I realized I couldn't pay couldn't put gas in my car without putting on a credit card felt like a loser felt like a pretty bad father because we had just had uh two beautiful girls and I kind of remembered everything I listened to on the radio went back and and uh restarted

um in our mid-30s and then we suffered a lot over the last 8 years and here we are so MH MH mhm so Laura he walks in and goes uh

this isn't working what' you say I said

okay well how do we fix it and he said oh well there's this Dave Ramsey guy and he has this plan and we're going to have to cut everything I'm going to sell my dream truck and I said oo hard

pass I don't think so that sounds terrible actually you know I had two babies and I I didn't want to do it but

I I wanted to support my husband and so I did it for about nine months without my heart in it but I did it you know to the letter and then one day we were sitting at the dining room table and we paid off our car and I looked up and I said oh my gosh this could

work this amazing and ding ding light

comes on it came on and I started listening to the show and you know it was Game On from there my heart was in it and then it it was different you know from then on yeah wow wow so it took nine months of you kind of dragging her along huh yeah and then she goes okay wait a minute that gum this stuff is yeah okay I like be something here Nick

I picked up on the word suffering which

was a little bit sarcastic but yeah yeah but I I think he's actually there's probably a lot of Truth to that and and and I want people to hear it's not easy how difficult this was for you guys but how it feels on the other side so give us a little window into what suffering even sarcastically meant well I always joke that Dave Ramsey ruined my life yeah there's a whole there's a whole internet channel on that

but the truth is I mean you're going to see your friends and they're going to be buying trucks and they're going to be drive driving side by sides down the road and and they're going to be having a lot of fun and there's going to be a time where you have to suck it up and you have to say I'm going to get some and I'm not I'm going to say no um

I I think for your normal working family you have to pay a price um if you just if you just wander through um you'll wander right into debt just like every all the Joneses and you'll be comparing yourself so I think there's just a time where you have to have discipline and you have to say hey this is hard but it's the be best thing for my future for my girls

you know for for the rest of my life and so that's where where your temporary Pleasures I think we um we had to put aside for a minute and we had to focus on our goal which took a long time took eight years so what's the dream now

42 and you guys are debt free house and

everything how does that change your vision well our first dream was to come to Nashville to check it off the Box baby there you're there one down yeah so next scream yeah I watched a lot of Deb

free screams and I always thought if we make it we're going yeah I like it I'm glad you're here yeah I'm so proud of yall it was good deal so what what is the next big thing yeah for me you know the next biggest thing is to set up my girls for um a success you know in a

just a better PL platform to build off of than I had I'm from a single wide trailer even though it's in California um and I just want better for them so for me the the future is trying to build for them and then us enjoying our lives a little bit more yeah absolutely and and really being an opportunity to give and and affect people in a better way yeah well congratulations

I guess Dave there's probably a nice truck in the future though I would hope I think he's he's earned it yeah maybe a side by side he's a millionaire 42 yeah me come on

come on pay cash for it get you a toy yeah that's good that yall should you should enjoy some of this and you should give some of it and you should use some of it for investing and uh building up the future and changing your family tree and you will so very very well done very proud of y'all what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is

I think that it's avoiding lifestyle creep that was something that I feel that we did really well over the8 years you know Nick had a lot of promotions and a lot of pay raises I had a few commission checks come in and they pretty much went all to the mortgage and that was hard

when you see other people it's unrewarding it's very unrewarding and it it's it's hard after a while and you just say oh I just want to do X YZ whatever it is and we just didn't we just kept saying no you know we want to pay a price to win and and over the course of the eight years we spent the first four years in baby steps one through five and you know 345 felt like

it took a really long time to get through we really just kind of crawled through those and those were you know hard slow years and then uh we paid off

180 in the last four years so it really

kind of picked up at the end and that's well your income changed during that time the income changed everything changed we were we were working together and the snowball really got going it was

it was really neat to see that way to go you guys congratulations thanks we did a

tracking process as well we kind of bought these hurricane lands and we put some smooth stones in them each Stone was $500 so at the end of the budget

meeting at the end of the month we would you know see how much we could put in towards it and we would bring the girls in and we'd each put a rock in and sometimes we only put two and sometimes we put 15 you know but it was it was something that we brought them in for and we would talk about you know why are we even doing

this and what is dead and why is this important and so bring them up let's introduce them what are their names and ages so I got two of them here oldest is is Sabrina youngest is Cassidy MH great hey we've got the living give box for you the baby steps millionaires book which is what you've done congratulations The Total Money Makeover book and a Financial Peace University membership for

you to either enjoy or give any of it just our way of saying thanks for you to come and people buy that and give that stuff away all the time so thank you guys so very proud of you Nick and Laura Sabrina and Cassidy

San Bernardino California 223,000 paid off in 99 months making 71

to 195 baby steps millionaires at 42 count

it down let's hear a debt free scream

are you ready 3 2 1 we're dead

free

yeah oh you got to love it man oh man

those little girls have a mom and daddy that changed their lives yeah well done that's grownup stuff there boys and girls this is the ramsy

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[Laughter] [Music]

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show [Music]

our scripture of the day Proverbs 12:15 the way of a fool is right in his own eyes but a wise man listens to advice

Tommy Lort says the only problem with success is that it does not teach you how to deal with failure Joe is with us

Joe is in Cincinnati hi Joe how are you

I am fantastic how can we help all right

I've got a question I've been pretty intently saving uh to buy a new Bronco

even selling my early Bronco and through my intensity and focus I've actually saved up enough to pay off my home and now I'm struggling do I continue on with my plan to buy my Bronco or pay off my

house wow that's cool those Broncos are cool so what do you make uh about 150 what's the Bronco

cost uh it's 56 okay and you can pay off

your house for a car guy you pay off your house for I've got a couple other ones yes you have a couple of other cars yeah I've got a an old classic from

my father-in-law and then a early Bronco that I've also had for about 35 years

that the value has increased on it also oh yeah those things are through the roof yeah that's fun

um

H well it's a simple question that you

have to answer for yourself I don't think anyone else can answer it for you what do you want more a new Bronco or a paid off house and um I'm the other side of all

of that um let me just tell you this too

it's not it's not a Permanent Choice

it's which one do you want first yeah

because if you buy the paid off Bronco then your next goal is you're going to pay off the house and you make good money and you're going to pay it off fairly quick right yes or if you pay off

the house if you pay off the house you don't have a house payment um and now we can save like crazy and buy a new

Bronco so I mean my guess is is that um

two years from today you've accomplished both goals agreed yes so just which one do you want

for the next two years because the other one's going to wait 18 months to two

years yeah I'm also struggling because I've drove junk for years uh and even a

free car to keep it going just so I can do something I'm struggling spending that much money thinking of spending that much money on a vehicle now it's always what I thought I wanted when it comes down to uh letting it go for that

I don't know uh you're not getting rid of the other two Classics right no okay

good I was got to say I love the old Bronco more than the new one but this is your money yeah oh I I wouldn't make the trade I'd keep those two and then abut add the new one to the mix the new one's a cool car it's it's a neat car um are

you driving something that you're not proud of right now is he's driving he's driving one of those Classics aren't you no right now I'm driving about a $8,000 car I upgraded last year from my freb junker uh so I upgraded uh in meantime to save up for Bronco I've just been able to save up sooner than I thought what's the uh what's the balance on your house exactly uh 72,000 and you have 56 in the Bronco

account or what uh just in my general savings uh we

actually have about uh I think 70 liquid

right now not counting our emergency fund what's in the emergency she fun uh

we keep about 20 in there and it's normally low but i' retire military so I've got a pension for good pension that comes in monthly

so I love the car I love the Bronco I

think they're cool cars I don't own one of them but I think they're a very cool car I can understand where you're coming from having said that I personally would wait 18 months to buy the new Bronco and I would pay off my house uh but the point is you're going to do both within 24 months and you need to have a game plan to do that it's just a matter of which one goes

first that's the only choice we're making we're not making a choice of Bronco versus house we're making a choice of which one comes first in the 24mth calendar and that helps me that helps me make the decision to do the house does that make sense yes and then then you're

going to feel a little wiser spending this much on on a car than you feel right now you feel like you're over doing it a little bit right now because that house is still dangling out there and if you do the house first and the Bronco second the Bronco is not going to come with as much guilt yeah and if if that older Bronco is pretty slick I'd get rid of the $8,000 car sell it drive

the sweet Bronco around if you want to upgrade you you've worked hard I get what he's saying he's like I've been driving crap for so long and now I kind of want to drive something nice but I'm with you that house is going up in value the Bronco he buys will not no no no it's not I know the old one did but you're not going to keep

this one 45 years it's not going to be that's correct the thing so and it's not uh 1,800 bucks which is what you paid for the other one right exactly right back in the day or whatever whatever it was I would be driving that old Bronco around if it were me I I it depends on you don't you don't want to mess it up you don't put miles yeah

I get it not a daily driver Joe's in Cincinnati Hey Joe what's up

oh that's it's wa a minute that's we went back to I just I screwed up yeah hi hi Joe thanks guys all right Brian is in

Los Angeles let's try that hey Brian how are you hello sir I'm doing great thank you for the time to be on here today I've been a big listener to you guys for a while now and because of you I got out of Deb a couple years ago but um like what my question today is uh I'm married I have two boys we live in Los Angeles County

and my question is uh we make a good income here and um however we're very unsatisfied with the quality of life here just the school values the crime the homelessness and all in all just the unchristian society so we're considering relocating to another state um such as either Tennessee or Idaho or a few others um the issue is that um our my projected

income would probably be cut close to being in half why what do you do so I'm a police officer in LA county

and with overtime uh I usually bring around 140 to 150 a year and the same

salary in those areas are are are a good

bit less maybe like 60% of that but you

you're at you're comparing overtime to no overtime also yep it's not half but it is in in your field it is substantially less yeah but it's also worth just kicking the tires in other states you know what would a an Atlanta metro situation that's not the greatest thing in the world but it's the cost of living would be less than La look at multiple States in a region to kind of see what your opportunities are how long

you been on the force uh that's another thing 12 years so does that qualify does that qualify you for moving into like a a highway patrol role in one of the states because those do pay a lot more than the state you're talking about I I would likely be able to go into any type of law enforcement field in any other state but just comparing it to California just

it truly is a significant not necessarily

how much on this and I'm going tell you why I covered this story recently the Fraternal Order of Police uh they are having a hard time recruiting police officers you understand why I don't need to get into that and there's a great opportunity right now for you with 12 years of experience in Los Angeles County I think you need to do more research and see what your opportunities for uh transfer would look like

and then growth and Dave makes a very good point may even some signing bonuses available yeah and moving into a State Police role uh in another region of the country could be really lucrative and that would not necessarily be a pay cut then yeah I mean you move into a Bureau of Investigation in one of the states like Tennessee TBI or something like that um

but I would get out that's the heart of his question I would get out if I felt the way that you set it up to Dave and I I would get out I think you're um moving but I think you've got

to do a little bit more work on the career side so that it isn't as big a cut as you perceive it to be correct because that what you're outlining at first blush is true I mean if you compare it to an outlying County or something like that in uh you know in in

a Texas or Tennessee or what Florida whatever you might you might uh you might see that big a cut but there's ways to get into a Metro situation there's ways to get into State situations and with your experience you

might move in move up several

um pay levels uh in one of those States

and actually come out fairly close and

there's overtime available everywhere in your world tell you what high school football games and church on Sunday morning everywhere everywhere police everywhere hey man we appreciate you stay safe out there that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes

download the Ramsey Network app in your

favorite app store

[Music]

today

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## 177. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-7-23)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:20:56 |

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[Music]

[Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual and amazing

relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book paycheck to purpose and host of the Ken Coleman show he's my co-host today he talks about jobs and careers and money and well doing it in a way that you love it and so if you got questions about all that you jump in we'll talk about it and anything else you want to do we talk about you right in front of you and we make a living doing it phone number at 8825 5225 jump

in Marvin is going to start us off this hour in New York almany to be precise hey Marvin welcome to the Ramsey Show um hi Dave and Ken um privilege

um to be able to speaking with you um um um thank you very much um for all that you do well thank you how can we help um so so real brief um I'm 40 um um

my wife is 34 right so we've been married for 12 years and started a turf

grass Consulting business uh with the money that we received um from our

wedding right so we do work for um um

local mom and pop golf courses and

conduct um field trials for um plant

protectant manufacturers uh I was able to go full-time with the business in

2018 and she was able to go full-time in

2020 um in January thanks to you guys uh

we were able to become debt-free by

paying off our house um one of our clients will be selling their Golf Course soon uh so my

question for you is uh should we buy it

for $1.2 million well the first question is can Dave and I play for free it could affect our answer no

pressure Mar I'm kidding Mark Life Time membership yeah the uh it's going to cost you Marvin it's gonna cost you buddy this advice is going to be free today Dave yeah yeah so uh okay 1.2

million and so this thing is uh has a

net profit after all salaries are paid

including whatever the owner is paying himself to manage the course because it's a mom and pop um this thing is making um 300,000 a year uh uh no it's doing doing about one

150 to to a 200 net okay so why would

you pay 1.2 for that that's overpriced um yeah I I I

mean um you know I I I know what know

what know the golf course business fairly well the uh uh infrastructure in

the in the golf course business um

the the the uh the worth comes from the

assets right to meaning right to golf carts right maintenance equipment uh

things like that yeah no the worth doesn't come from that no those things only have a value to the extent they create a profit okay if all of those things created zero profit you would have what's known as a hobby okay not a business and so the

golf carts the infrastructure the quality of the turf the everything there the name the reputation in the community

uh the area of town it's in all of that

goes to create one thing profit and the way you calculate profit is net profit uh a a small business is worth a

maximum of five times net profit five times net profit yeah that's a 20 that's a 20% rate of return and you

know small business purchase is a very highrisk purchase and so you would want at least a 20% rate of return and that's

after that's if you're an absentee owner and so let's say I bought it for in Tennessee okay and I I had to hire a manager and I

had to hire every single staff member that was needed not you get to work over there for free or the a former owner gets to work over there for free and thereby increase the profits you follow

me real profits for an absentee investor

this is how you calculate the value of a small business transfer and uh it's called a cap rate process capitalization rate um the only other way you could

calculate the value is the what's called Book value which would be considerably less and that is if you took all if you bought it and you sold off all the assets you sold off the golf carts you sold off the real estate you sold off the uh you collected the receivables you paid the payables and that's Book value that should be less than four times five

times net profit it should be okay uh

but that's that's if you were going to disband the whole operation and it's worth more shut down than it is operationally then and I I doubt that's the case here because I got to tell you man I'm I don't know a ton about the golf business but there's kind of a joke in the investment world that the guy that makes the money on a golf course is

the second owner the guy that makes the money on a ski slope is the second owner because the first one usually goes bankrupt there's not much there's not much margin or spread in that world very low margins and so yeah just be careful

to not overpay for it if you're going to pay cash for it Marvin and you want to buy it it sounds like you know the golf business at least the side of it that you've been in but um I'm telling you the finances on this deal they don't sound that great um and if the guy goes

well real estate's worth a lot then he ought to just sell the real estate if the real estate's worth more than a million to then he ought to just sell the real estate put condos on it or whatever uh cuz I mean from a from a business transaction standpoint not a romantic view of grass and trees and

ponds The Real Estate is unquestionably

the most valuable part of this purchase a mom and pop Golf Course is a mom and pop Golf Course for a reason not knocking them I've played some awesome little munis in my life and they're great but this is a low margin business

and you probably don't have the clientele you look at how old your your average member or your average golfer is I'd be running all those things Beyond everything that Dave mentioned and unless this is a burning conviction and

you got the cash for it and you can handle it I'd run away from it unless

it's a real estate purchase only I mean it's just such a low margin business you're competing against in that area you're competing against higher end clubs that are charging much much more and you're just limited in your growth with a small golf course you're limited your Revenue growth is limited gotta love love the way Ken throws Around The Insider lingo I've played a lot of really good munis in my time I'm sorry a municip course

I should you're right that was inside baseball inside golf lingo it just means a local public course not a private course it's public anybody can play I've played a lot of really nice communis in my lifetime that was pretty good Ken I like the way you did that that you slipped that right in there is just added to your level of expertise it was an accident I grew

it wasn't no that's all I could afford to play my dad we that's all we could play were munis when I was growing up on a pastor's income when I think of munies I think of M municipal bonds mun bonds oh in the

golf world that just means a I know go track figured it out I've figured it out no it's not necessarily a goat track there are some nice there are there are some very nice ones yes I do know what goat track means it means horrible golf course yeah I do know I'll tell you a great one in uh Virginia Beach area Stumpy Lake there it's a great Municipal Golf Course great name Stumpy Lake yeah

bunch of tree stumps all over the lake well-known mun as of today this useless

information Froman R show

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thanks for being with us America we appreciate you hanging out open phones at 8825 5225 our question of the day comes

from neighborly your hub for Home Services most American homes have dozens of appliances and chances are at any given time there's something wrong with at least one of them Mr Appliance a neighborly brand offers expert Appliance

service on your schedule visit neighbor.com today to find Home Service Experts including Mr Appliance in your area today's question comes from Neil in Wisconsin I'm wanting to get my degree in the financial industry what is the average starting salary for someone who is straight out of college and what would their position be how much room for promotion and growth is in this industry and how do I set myself up for Success uh Neil

I don't know off the top of my head what an average starting salary is because this is kind of a big ambiguous question the financial industry covers a lot of different specific TR you could be you could be everything from bank teller to CEO dude yeah so that's a pretty wide range but the second part of the question we can address um how much room for promotion

and growth is in this industry well again depending on the lane that you pick uh within the financial industry think of it as a track and field track there's six eight Lanes there multiple Lanes depends you can do very very well there's no question you could do high six figures and you could be a seven figure earner uh in the world of Finance I mean there's just no question about that that's everything from Wall Street to uh an investment professional that does very very well

so uh the sky the limit uh is the answer to this how do you set yourself up for Success uh that's the uh that's the answer the answer to that is is doesn't matter on the industry uh I think it is three parts you got to know your role on every level that you're at that's Clarity do I know what's expected of me the second thing is accept

the role win the now have an attitude of gratitude for where you are and bust it there is no next if you don't win the now and third maximize the role go above and beyond don't walk

around acting like you're the CEO but then work like you are like you own the place that's Know Your Role accept your role maximize your role that's Clarity attitude and effort I think if you do that on every level that you're at you're always going to be promotable yeah absolutely and and you know

bathe smile show up on time

smile uh don't don't be an entitled

twit and um these things will take you a long way I mean it's because really I mean in a world of um people who don't

do those basic things you you really do set yourself apart yeah it's just a big deal just show up on time you know and

um wow

so yeah so the the the the problem that

we're having answering the question is it's like saying I'm going to get a marketing degree what do marketing people make well there's about 8 80,000

different things marketing people do and the same thing is true with financial a finance degree I have a finance degree with a specialization in real estate um and because I wanted to be in the real estate business that was my goal I grew up in the real estate business that was the long-term thing but I've got all the financial goober classes under my belt now and so a thousand years ago I did and uh

um so you know now what are you going to do with that there's a lot of different thing you go like Ken said corporate position as a financial analyst um and

but Finance in general Finance and Accounting are really good uh

Baseline uh sets of knowledge to move

into companies and do very well uh for

instance there's two primary s sources for the CEO of major companies in America today almost all the CEOs and major companies in America today are either former CFOs uh or Finance people

accounting people uh Bean counters of some kind or another or they were the director of marketing and sales that's the primary two primary pools that CEOs come out of the people that bring in the revenue and the people that manage and operate the business well from a numers perspective have a higher likelihood of becoming CEOs uh

very few people come from the graphic arts department to become the CEO and

that's not the put down the graphic arts department it's just a statistical fact

and so you know you look at where that's taking you so uh but yeah it's a great

degree as a baseline of knowledge because in getting that degree it's a it's a basic Business Degree you're going to end up with good statistics under your belt good accounting under your belt you're going to end up with marketing classes under your belt and you know those are going to be those will be knowledge bases that you'll use wherever you land in business so all of that set

you up for a positive situation Carla is in Florida hey Carla welcome to the Ramsey Show hi thank you for having me so excited to be talking to you I watch you all the time on YouTube and I love your show we appreciate you being here how can we help so I have some questions I've been

plowing through my baby steps and especially paying off

like credit cards good for and I I don't have anything saved up in

retirement I'm a nurse I've been a nurse for 25 years I make 138,000 plus a year uh my home is paid off my biggest

expens is my car which I owe 23,000 on

and my interest rate is

4.4% so I first I'm going through these

baby steps but I was paying off cards

yesterday so I paid off six cut them up

way to go threw away all the papers so that I wouldn't be tempted to call them back for a new C and now I ran into the next one that I

wanted to pay off and they said if I pay

it off see this one has an annual

fee and they said if I paid it off it was going to ding my credit and that you know just keep the card and pay the annual fee but I was like well how much

is that going to ding my credit and does that matter because that's the next card

to pay off I have five more to pay off so wait minute let me get this straight a credit card company told you it's not a good idea to get rid of a credit card

right no they said keep it

open gonna hurt my credit if I closed it

yeah of course they did yeah well it is

it's going to it is going to damage your credit score so the question is this where is it we're trying to get to is is

a credit score your goal or is money your goal um retirement is my goal yeah

having and by the way I've had people try to boil the credit score you can't eat it

it's worthless you know what a credit score is good for there's only one thing a credit score is good for you know what it is get more credit borrowing more money

going into debt which is kind of the opposite of having money for retirement it's the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish right now so if your goal is to get rid of your debt so that you have some money who cares about your credit score yeah and you know I I you drove

right that you didn't even get

it yes how old are you I am 60 you are killing it with

138,000 girl I'm proud of you very good

yeah let's get these CS chopped up and get rid of this car payment start piling up some money so five or six years from now you've got $250 $300,000 set

aside and quit screwing around credit card company if I can if I can pay all

my cards off within the next two months

and then then knock out that $23,000 car loan in a year and then oh you can do it faster than that you make 130 you ain't got anything else to do this is important well I I do help my

mom and my daughter out well to the ex how much do you give

them um I pay my mother's car

insurance and my daughter about 500

you're paying an 85y old's car ins Insurance yeah does that seem weird to

you that's scary to me but she's only

living on Social Security yeah I know so where's the 85y old driving to to church into the grocery store yeah

thought so this is pretty expensive trips so um you need to think through what where your money's going and get control of it and for sure we don't take advice from credit card companies on anything all we do to them is say bye-bye see you wouldn't want to be you

you are the cigarette of the financial World your credit card goobers we don't want anything to do with you this is the Ramsey [Music]

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[Music]

kid Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for for joining us America I'm Dave Ramsey your host open phones atle 88255 225 Ben is in New York hi Ben

welcome to the Ramsey Show Hi how are you doing great man what's up um I am currently living with my

parents I am 29 um I've been saving for

several years now and I'm trying to figure out if I am ready to uh buy a house and if I can afford to you know get my own place at this point okay how much do you have saved

uh 100K okay uh what keeps you from leaving

there and buying a house um well I was mostly just trying to reach a certain I was trying to reach that goal of 100 100K save okay you got 100K you got 100K I mean Common Sense tells me you could go buy a house in Albany with 100K you're 29 years old how much do you make uh about 70 75 cool all right I I I

would definitely do it like this

week you think you think that's a good idea because I I didn't want to rent was the thing I didn't want to be throwing out money you know dude impulsive is not on your list of things to do yeah we don't have to worry about you being impulsive you're 29 you live at home you're not impulsive okay time to go yes

go get you a house get you a life yeah for sure no I like it I love

it man so how much do you make again 70

what do you do 70 um I work in accounting okay you are risk averse aren't you man you're just hey um it's

time man go out in the sun see the

sunshine the uh the uh the you you are a numbers dude I love you I'm a nerd I'm a numbers nerd too man so I'm right there with you Ben you've been crunching numbers and crunching numbers and crunching numbers and the problem with those numbers nerds is and you're you're one I'm one so I'm owning it with you we can get paralysis of the analysis and you have A Bad Case sure get a house get a life go go

go do something go have some fun man go

you know and and tell your mama you love her and you'll see her in five months yeah I mean she going to be she going to be glad to get rid of you I promise I don't think she is actually well I think that's part of the problem he's an easy guy to live with he's not a problem he's not tell not like he's having parties in the basement or something we're seeing more and more of this and I'm not picking on Ben but I do want to say this

there's two things that are going on number one he's got the analysis paralysis situation yeah but he also along with the fear of change is how

comfortable he is at Mom's house and

that can just keep you when you because you can justify staying by using the numbers and I think it got to be realistic how much of this is I'm just afraid to kind of go out and start adulting that wasn't even a term 10 years ago and I hate saying it I'm a little embarrassed that I even uttered it yeah but I mean it's time for a

lot a great call back uh but yeah I I

just think we got too many young 20s somethings that are just terrified of change and we got to call that out let me just tell you when you're out there and on the wire and there's no net uh it is terrifying yeah it's also

exhilarating and it it it's also what makes you a man or makes you a woman my son yeah so yeah um I heyy

um you know yes Ben you should go buy a house and we're not picking on you but you did open the can of worms so we'll deal with it for a second um here's the thing moms and dads you're not doing uh

your kiddos favors when you leave them in the nest too long a eagle that stays

in the nest too long becomes known as a turkey and Ben I didn't just call you a turkey I'm talking about a concept here okay so Ben you're you're free from this we're we love you we're happy for you glad you got 100K you need to buy a house in the next month and you need to move immediately for your sake and it's

good it's good you know we're there but uh so our our oldest when she came out of school easy kid oh yeah Denise to

this day she's just a pleasant easy person and um and she moved back to

she's the only one of them that moved back to our house after college and uh she was waiting on a a roommate situation to develop so she could go get the the first rental property right uh and and um so she was living there for

about uh 2 months and we said okay

that's probably enough and she's like what I'm like you know you you got to you got to get this done because not because we don't like it she was not in our way she's like Ben she could have lived there and we would wouldn't have noticed she been there until she 29 we wouldn't have noticed but uh we're like no you you are missing out on life

when when you're 22 23 25 years old and you live in your mama's basement you're missing out on life y and so you need to go be somebody and um it breaks our heart because we love you we we like having you around but uh it's not about us it's about you and your development as a person your uh emotional your psychological your Spiritual Development your financial development

you become a different person when you buy your own eggs and pay your own light bill and fold your own clothes or don't but they're your clothes yeah and that it just changes there's a little thing happens there little different thing and again Ben for God's sakes we're not picking on you okay we're not you called up you're a nice young man we appreciate you none of

this is aimed at you but I'm just telling you folks moms and dads you are stunting their growth 100% reminds me of that movie with Matthew mccon Failure to Launch horrible movie I don't know I think great Matthew Matthew has done some really good work in his life and that is not on the list this is exciting folks Dave ramley with a strong opinion on a romcom

I I I never thought

I'd see the day I mean come if your co-star is Terry Bradshaw I'm just saying you're right the quality of the script writing was low I I'll give you that but but when Stacey wants to see it I say okay yeah well yeah there is that I'm blaming it on her yeah I would I'm blaming it on you but we're all right Joe is in Louisville Kentucky hi Joe what's up hi thanks for having me guys how are you better than we deserve how can we help good um so uh just quick background

last year I had uh I left the job that I was at for about 15 years uh since then

uh been struggling to uh you know find a

job uh to make what I need to make to pay the bills and I'm primarily using job boards and they just seem to not be going anywhere that's horrible yeah resources

out there I guess to what were you making um I was making about 130,000 a

year doing what it was commission so it kind of went up and down uh sales and uh management okay and why did you walk out the door without having anything to go to uh well they uh had a new ownership

come through and one of the first changes they made was pay uh for the the regional manager so I ended up um was on

Pace for about 70k after they uh took

over okay so they cut your pay in half and you said you said stick it okay I got that yeah all right so have you been

working have you beening yeah I have been working um currently making um right now about 55k

a year so do you know how to sell yes I I can sell what were you selling before when you're making 130 uh it's furniture wholesale or or customers I

mean or consumers I'm sorry yeah customer uh customer two customers so retail gotom okay wow I got to tell you

my mom uh sold Furniture was a manager of a large furniture chain for 35 years and if you can make that kind of money in Furniture those margins aren't that high uh you've got a lot of options in front of you right now a lot and you've got to stop job boarding and you've got to start start having coffee with people that you know Civic clubs churches you

know people and look you can sell anything you're not a guy who's stuck in an industry in other words you aren't just effective in the furniture industry you know a product you know a service not only can you sell it Joe but you let a team of people medical device sales you can make two and a quarter easy easy so with i' I've looked at some

medical like sales jobs I just feel like

um you know I I don't feel like it's you know I'm qualified I guess for it do you you just apply anyways there aren't

doctors making the sales there sales people making sales to doctors yeah I got a friend who's got who's a former college football player I'm not knocking football players he's advising Sur on Orthopedic devices in the operating room not cuz he's a genius because they trained him on the devices Dave's right you don't need anything other than a willingness to learn and basic intelligence and you have both of those in droves hey we're going to send

you kin's book from paycheck to purpose I want you to go on his website and learn his oh yeah oh no also we're going to send you proximity principle he other number one cuz that's that does that's what you do instead of job boards what it'll help you do what you're supposed to do yeah

[Music]

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open phones at 8825 5225 Ken Coleman Ramsey personality

is my co-host Evan is in Indianapolis hi Evan how are you good how are you better than I deserve what's up um so I'm a young guy last couple

years um I'm I'm a numbers cruncher and

my numbers aren't crunching anymore I'm not able to build my savings and I not sure what to do with

it okay what do you make uh I make 2750 an hour okay and uh

so what is that about 70 a year

um it's more like 60 a year isn't it yeah yeah okay what do you do uh I'm an

a mechanic I work on Farm Equipment okay

all right and um how much debt do you

have uh about 117,000 on what uh 75 on my house I've got 27,000

in student loans and 16 on a car okay

all right are you single uh no getting ready to get married in a month what's she make uh she's part-time because we had a

this is where the whole two-year thing came in uh we had a kid two years ago um and she so she makes I think she

makes 15 an hour and she works 20 to 25

hours a

week okay all right well there's two

sides of the equ the income side and the outgo side and if we want to change the numbers we usually end up working on both so you're working 40 hours she's working 15 somebody going to be working more if we want more money or we're

going to be working differently meaning a new career if we want more money and

um and that the outgo side is a car

payment and a student loan payment when you get rid of those by tearing into them and making them the major priority a priority above all other things and get rid of them uh then you know you can get there but if you guys are making 100,000 between the two of you or 880,000 between the two of you you can work through a $116,000 car debt and a $227,000 student loan debt

you know in 18 24 months but you're going to be on beans and rice rice and beans you're going to be working overtime and you're going to sell so much stuff the dog thinks it's next are you budgeting uh I mean I kind of do I mean I don't have any no the answer I I don't have a yeah no okay yeah and I'm not that's not a setup question

but when somebody says I can't seem to get caught

up I can't seem to pile up savings we

have baby steps anyway so we want you $1,000 baby step one that's for emergencies then you're attacking this debt but you've got to know where your money is going and if you're not budgeting you're going to have a hard time getting traction whether you're in baby step one getting $1,000 baby step

two knocking not debt off baby step three saving up 3 to six months emergency fund if you're not budgeting you have a greater chance of spinning your wheels because you just simply don't know where the money's going so so when are you getting married uh October the 7th awesome hey

we're going to give you a wedding gift uh oh I'm going to put you and the bride through Financial Peace University both of you have to go if I give it to you for free do you promise yes I promise

nine lessons it also includes the world's best budgeting app every dollar the premium version which connects to your bank and I want you to jump in that immediately and start using it today I'm going to give it to you right now Austin's going to pick up and tie you into it but get on the every dollar app like Ken was saying because here's what we find research has shown across the

general population that when people start doing a written budget each month

they have a 10 to a 15% lift in their

money because there's that much in Lost in just disorganization and impulse spending uh we find it's actually more than that because the people we're dealing with are different than the general public the people we're dealing with are like you Evan they're sick and tired of being sick and tired and they're about ready to bust into something and so they lean in even harder on that budget and

they make every one of those dollars squeal they make every one of those dollars behave and that's why we even call the budget every dollar every dollar has an assignment and that's why the budgeting app is called that every dollar has a name every dollar has an assignment and so you're just going to get um U merciless on making the money that

the two of you have coming in behave and

squeeze every dime out of it increase your income decrease your outgo and then walk these baby steps and financial pce University will help you do that and uh certainly the every dollar budgeting app will help you do that so check those out we're going to give them to you free as a wedding gift and get you started because I've been right where you are Evan when people say Ken Ken caught that

beautifully because I used to say that too I can't seem to get and what that usually means is I haven't been able to out earn my disorganization I haven't been able to out earn my stupidity I haven't been able to out earn my impulse spending I haven't been able to out earn my lack of a plan and nobody can by the way and I used to think i' just go get more money cuz I'm an abundance guy

and I would go get more money and then I would screw it up you know and so you know you've got to make the money that you have behave and when you're managing

that well you become what's called a faithful Steward someone who is stewarding their money in a trustworthy Manner and God looks down and goes oh wait there's one in Indianapolis that gets it yeah ha who knew you know and uh

we might be able to let him manage some more that's right if he's managing what he has well y hello that's a basic biblical principle and last piece of encouragement Evan if you budget first dive into every dollar start to see where the money is you'll be more motivated to do extra work because as an a mechanic who can work on those big old machines that I don't even know how

they work right he can work on a lot of different engines he's got some transferable skills there's a lot of side work where you as a mechanic can make really good money but you're more motivated to do that when you go okay now I'm actually getting ahead mhm because I'm now disciplined and I have a plan yeah and where do I want to be in 10 years right

so now you're going okay I'll go bust it yeah and where do I want to be in my career in 10 years yeah that that's a plan this is how it works boys and girls beautiful hey Austin will pick up and get you signed up we'll get you taken care of Susan's in New York hey Susan welcome to the Ramsey Show Hi how are you better than

I deserve what's up I have a question um I'm currently in

a condo that I want to sell and I'm looking at either renting it out and then buying something new um or maybe selling it and kind of taking this like windfall as we want to call it that that's going on in real estate and pay off my debt and then also buy something new B either way I feel like I want to leave this condo but I'm afraid to let

it go because I have a good interest rate on it I'm like it's called a windfall you you nailed it oh You Gonna Take the Money and Run let it go let it

go oh my God how about that Dave you didn't see that coming no you're right that was on Key by I never see it coming again Jade did the exact same thing yesterday but it was a little better well Jade is a lot better than me let call so anyway yeah Susan we've been interrupted here by a solo that was uninvited made so the deal is this um we

yeah you don't want to keep the condo because you're becoming a landlord by default not by intent if you owned another house and you were debt free and you had a pile them you know and you wouldn't go borrow on that house house in order to buy a condo in the city you just wouldn't do it and effectively by not selling this it's the same thing as if you bought it you know in terms of a balance sheet or in terms of the decision-making Paradigm and so yeah you're much better

off to I can't even say it let it youed

you went there caught yourself yeah it's just I got to chill but yeah let it go

yeah that's what you need to do and

you're going to be hum that around the house tonight Sharon's going to be like what are you doing you're going to be like Coleman who are you what that's all you need to say she'll understand she'll Coleman's fault she'll understand so many things are but hey you've taught this for years the idea of being a a

distance or even or even local it creates headaches yeah just you know yes real estate's a good investment but very few people back into it you need to walk

into it with cash after you got the rest of your finances straightened out so sell it Susan sell it please that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes and thank you for the call this is the Ramsey Show

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hey folks Ken Coleman here did you know the Ramsey show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world get your daily dose of advice on life and money check out all of our shows from the Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us

Ken Coleman ramsy personality host of the Ken Coleman show and author of the number one bestselling book from paycheck to purpose is my co-host as we talk about your job your life your money your where your money comes from your work Ken is an expert in that area and he can help so jump in the phone number is 88255 225 Jim is with us in Vancouver hi

Jim welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave thanks for having me on sure what's up um I'm calling from just

outside Vancouver in British Columbia here and basically I was wondering if it

was smarter for me to buy a house or

start B start a business first and if

you would think buying a house would be smarter how would I go about that with today's like housing market buying a house in terms of to live in as your home or as a rental property it would be to live in as my own ideally with a sweet torrento but that might be further down the line okay are you single I'm single yeah what do you

make um I'm 20 and I still do live with

my parents but I currently make 35 bucks an hour what's the business you want to

start um it would be in the um equipment

services and Welding um industry MH okay

I I obviously you know how to uh do equipment services and Welding uh where are you going to get your customers uh so I got quite a few connections from past jobs at farms and

whatnot from when I was a bit younger so I would be able to get a lot of customers in the agricultural um type of work is that

business G to require go ahead go ahead well what I'm getting at is he said house or start business and so I'm wondering is there a lot of capital outlay like you're you gonna have to put a lot of money into this to launch this business idea um so I again I haven't really put

a whole lot of thought like I get I've put a lot of thought towards starting the business but I'm really tallied up the numbers because um I've just been

told that for buying a house if you're self-employed the bank doesn't look super highly on that rather than if you make a steady income at a place that's been around for a lot longer they're going to want to see two in America they're going to want to see two tax two years of tax returns I don't know what it is in British Columbia but two years of tax returns as a self-employed person proves

you make money other than that there's no problem at all being self-employed but uh but obviously you can't move in there with uh and again I do not know the mortgage process in uh

British Columbia I can't comment on that I'm ignorant about it so but you'd have to find that out but I think you're probably you know you're on the right track there with that issue um how much money do you have saved um so I currently have 35,000 in

my savings and then I got just under 30,000 invested okay good for you all right and

um you you are in the welding and uh equipment Services business now making $35 an hour that's correct okay and so are do

you have the ability to do side jobs in

the same industry without uh stepping on

your current employer customers or

stealing from them in any way yes that's that's the other thing that I said sorry my email earlier I never me your phone's breaking up I understand you try again um I do have the ability to work

on side jobs from home and also from the shop without getting in the way of my current career yeah without ethics problems with your current employer right exactly okay all right so what I

would do is uh I would not start my

business full-time I would start it part-time and and start doing some side gigs and I would go get me a rental prop

a place to rent and just you know move out of your parents house you're 20 years old um and I would not buy a house

right now I would just keep piling up cash you got plenty of time there's nothing to do with the housing market it's got to do with where you are and then I want you to build up that side gig build up that side gig to where you're making more with it than you are during your day job then you're ready to quit and run your job run your business full-time

the big deal here that you're going to discover Jim and I want you to discover this by actually doing it not not in theory not discussing it uh what

you're going to discover is is that doing the welding and being an excellent welder is a different skill set than running a business yeah you can be an excellent

technician and still run the business

poorly you could be you can run a business well and be a horrible technician people do that sometimes but uh what often happens is someone is a great chef and so they automatically

assume they need a restaurant well it's a completely different thing to run a restaurant than it is to be a chef the only thing that's in common is food that's the only thing I mean Chef is one skill operating a business is another skill and that that's what I'm seeing with you so I I think you're probably very good at what you do you sound very competent and confident and um so I would want you to

just build this up on the side what do you think yeah the only got to add to that is while you're doing the work on the side see there's no risk here you're not Allin you got a great job no conflict of interest and now I'm learning the business with zero risk and Dave's right there's a process of welding then there's I'm selling these parts and that's a whole different ball game

then I'm running my business and while I'm doing it on the side I'm learning by experience but I'm also going to sit with people who are winning in the industry I will tell you this Dave I think the most underrated question in the history of the world is

will you help me and will you help me in this case a young man who's 20 who approaches a guy maybe in his 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s and says hey I want to get into this business one day can I buy your lunch or coffee and will you just tell me what I need to know and you helping me is you just giving me some knowledge

and some wisdom and I have found that successful people are very willing to help that person who asked that question and shows up with a willingness to learn pad and paper notes on your phone I don't care how you do it and if you do that here's what happens now you get all this wisdom and knowledge from somebody who's been way out in front of you and

then you begin to apply it on the side and Dave's right that picks right back up where Dave's advice is at some point you're going to scale it to the point where you can walk away from the day job right into working for yourself but there's no risk here and patience is the key it's hard to be patient when you're 20 I mean crap it's hard for me to be patient at 49

but it's really hard to be patient when you're 20 but patience is what set you up for the Long Haul and I think that's the that's the only thing I'd add to what you said I thought the advice was fantastic so don't buy a house no move out don't start your business full-time start it part-time build it up build it up build it up build it up learn

the business skills and I'll send you a copy of our number one bestselling book entree leadership great which is how we show people what our Playbook has been on running a business how we grew the ramsy solutions business from a card table in my living room to now almost 1100 folks on the team and over 300 million a year in revenue and we'll show you how we did that

and so but that's the skill set it's a different set of skills than welding and you you got to be good at both to make this work this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host thanks for being here America open phones atle 8825 5225 you jump in and we will talk Joe is

in Lake Charles Louisiana hi Joe welcome to the Ramsey Show yes sir thank you'all for taking my call sure what's up so my question today

is um an a couple at our church is

offering to owner finance their house to us and I'm just calling to see if that is going to be a smart play with my current situation okay um well we T you know we

can check your current situation so how much debt do you have um right now we're on baby step two

we still have about 40

42,000 um which ranges from

credit card car note what's your household income um 65 to 70,000 so when you plan

to do be done with a 42 um we're we're snowballing I mean by

two two and a half three years okay would be yeah that sounds reasonable um

we tell folks Joe not to buy a home while they're in debt okay because um you know Murphy

will move in your spare bedroom and the water heater will break the roof will leak and the heat and air will go out and you're broke cuz you're still in debt and then you got a real mess on your hands so what appears to be a blessing because of the timing is not going to be a blessing it would end up being a curse so I would tell

you to wait and that may mean that this couple sells the house to someone else and that's fine and you'll you know God will have something else for you there'll be another plan when you're ready and you have a good emergency fund and a good down payment and you have no debt and you move into a house in that situation the house can be a blessing not a curse

but when you move into a house broke you just get broker that's why they call them Brokers you know just it's a bad idea don't do it don't do it James is that ready yeah okay all right so uh they

sent me this thing God can this I don't know if you saw this or not I haven't seen this this is a little bit it's not exciting it's scary it's not okay it's scary so I mean we get scam stuff all

the time people using my name you know people using you know saying Dave Ramsey said do this Dave Ramsey said do that and it's like well of course St Ry didn't say to do that that's D he wouldn't do that that's and you know anybody that knows us know these things but then people that don't know us they think I'm endorsing you know bull craap so this one pops up

this one's scary because it's AI That's what I was going to ask you yeah so you going to play it play it this is on Instagram this is the dumbest thing I've seen and I don't know when total credit card debt surged to $1

1.03 trillion it marks the highest level

ever on record that part in the FED dating back all the way to 2003 um I

have about $166,000 worth worth of debt um it includes a car a credit card the medical debt from the birth of our son okay so what you need to do and this applies to my listeners at home who have debt is go apply for an economic recovery package today do you hear me yes sir fastest way is to settle it and pay pennies on the do for what

you owe and you can do that using a free service through the economic recovery program today thank you sir wow hey we love you you hold on a second Kelly's going to pick up okay the economic recovery package and pay pennies on the dollar and you of course you swipe down and you go to this website to buy their crap and

uh and obviously I mean I said AI when I

first heard it on my computer it was AI but when I heard it now just now in the studio that doesn't it's not even AI it's just a bad voice yeah he got one

phrase he got one little phrase that was close but to somebody who doesn't listen to you much and did a driveby on YouTube that's nasty that is really bad it was an Instagram thing so we of course we got the attorneys on it we get them shut down Instagram shut them down but uh then they pop back up as quick as you shut them down because it's you know it's scam everywh qu yeah it's they're everywhere but I I they just you know

you don't notice but it would changed from these earbuds in our ears to the microphone with in front of our face exactly and uh and then the thing in front of your face it makes it look like I'm saying it and uh and then closes out with with me actually closing the call out of course you know the ultimate deception bookend it with actual real stuff from

you it's very you know that that freaks me out all all fraudulently and in violation of copyright by the way too but yeah wow wow so no we do not

endorse the economic Recovery Act which doesn't even exist which by the way yeah what a joke

does not exist there's no such thing economic recovery and so and you can settle your debts for pennies on the dollar yeah you can do that but what this is is one of these scam uh debt consolidation places yes and they're getting you into a debt consolidation process and oh my go but that part was brilliant because that's the kind of foess that we hear from DC they say things like economic Recovery Act and we all go oh they're here to help yeah economic yeah yeah you're right that

that's that's troubling though it's trouble Ronald Reagan had a famous quote he said the most scary words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help yeah that's exactly right amen and amen the

economic Recovery Act and just just what does that even mean yeah it's not even an act by the way oh it is an act but it's not that kind of an act yeah wow wow crazy stuff if you're going to try to rip your voice off practice a little better than that come on man sound like I was from California not enough Tennessee in that no twang in that Doug is in Grand Rapids

hey Doug what's up hey Dave and Ken how are you guys doing today better than we deserve what's up hey excellent I'm glad I'm speaking to you guys I've been listening to the show for about six years now and it's a little bit embarrassing to state that my wife and I are not completely out of debt yet because we're what I like to say and I hear you say on the show all the time we're sort of Ramsey is um we did successfully pay off

$888,000 of student loans in 2021 that's

good um huge weight lifted off the shoulders and with all the student loan speak going on right now it's amazing to not have to deal with that um but my question today has to do with Roth IRAs because we still have $62,000 in debt um

on three line items two of them are cars

and one is a camper um how much do you owe in a camper camper we owe

24,000 okay so onethird of this is a camper okay yep and the other 40 or

8,000 is broken into how many what kind of car how much we have a 27 on the

Tahoe and nine or almost 10,000 on an

edge okay all right so you have a car and a camper problem okay yep um now

what's your household income we bring in Gross about 160 a year so we're only at about 41% of our annual income we a little bit below the 50% that you teach okay and so and you want to pull out your WTH well the question is because I've actually listened to the show for six years and I've never heard this question so I may have a good one um

and I know you teach not to pull from retirement because of the penalties and taxes associated with doing that but in our case we each my wife and I each have a Roth IRA in my name I have a Roth of

$110,000 um and she's got 5,000 in her

name and my question was about the cash equivalent because it's obviously after tax absolutely not this is not a Roth

problem or tax problem or a penalty problem this is a Doug problem mhm Doug

really Behavior you make 160 Grand and

you owe money on a camper yeah come on well we do and you want to cash out your freaking retirement for a

camper no we also rent that out through

no yeah no Dave I'm in the camper

investment business bu no you're not yeah you know better than that dude

what's it worth do you have any idea it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it's gone yeah that's what I'm getting it's gone it's depreciating either you pay these cars and these campers off in the next 18 months out of your cash flow and you guys quit being is or you know the

the cuz here's the problem you keep treating the symptom and you know when you take this money out of retirement and start with this not enough to do spit there not enough money in there but if if you did take it out you keep treating the symptom and the symptom is the debt the

problem is the dug the douie okay so so you got to got

you guys are going to have to quit being is that's what we're saying you're going to have to get on a decent plan get on get on every dollar you and your wife sit down and go okay we knocked out 88,000 now we look kind of foolish sitting here with these debts making 160 Grand we make too much money to be this freaking broke you have no money in retirement Doug I mean you have $5,000

that's pitiful it's pitiful and you make

$160,000 a year come on man this is the

Ramsey

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions we have a thing called the debt-free stage we also have an a viewing area where you can come in get free homemade chocolate chip cookies and coffee come by and visit us if you're in town from boisey Idaho or something like that so we got a group of uh ladies sitting here on the front row

we just met them at the break from boisey so uh hey people come from All Over America and visit Nashville and sometimes we're one of the places they stop and see we do the show on the glass from 1 to 4

every day central time and if you come and watch uh you'll agree that it's pretty much like watching ugly paint drive but there you go so hey I don't resemble that he hey watch out what's happening hey but also we have the debt free stage in that Lobby and that's where Mike and Lindsay are hey guys how are you hi do good welcome where do you guys live St Louis Missouri there we go awesome and how much debt have you paid off uh 360,000 yo how long did that take

about 32 months good for you and your

range of income during that time uh

120,000 to 350,000 okay in three years you double your over double your income we did almost triple it y wow what do youall do for a living uh I am a internal medicine

doctor ah there we go and I work in the financial services industry well that's vague enough good okay all right excellent so now you yeah so that's a way to double or triple your income the two of you excellent very good so uh

goodness what kind of debt was the 360 uh mostly student loans about 346,000

with student loans and the rest says the dock yeah the rest was an investment loan and a car loan okay wow very cool how long you been on med school uh about

well out a medical school no I mean out out of residency and everything about three years about three years so about this time yeah so you got out and you said let's knock it out correct game on yep all right so what how did you get connected to this ramsy stuff what made y'all do this yeah so um we were

probably Dave is I had heard about the Dave Ramsey Show before Lindsay and I got married which was six years ago and we were on our honeymoon and uh being the financial guy I was uh listening to

the Dave Ramsey Show podcast wow uh and then Lindsay uh being like I think she was reading a book and she said what are you doing what are you listening to and it was uh the Dave Ramsey show we listened to the podcast um and that's how we got first connected and then uh my family gifted us uh FPU for Christmas

as well okay and so then when she comes out of med school no question how what we're gonna do correct we're GNA knock this out pop done done done done very

good Lindsay I gotta ask you as the doctor in your world did you share the

process the journey as you were doing it and if you did uh what did you find the reaction was and and I'm just curious how many other people that are in your shoes to doctors that are actually even thinking about getting after it the way you all did uh yeah I mean we talk pretty openly about it um and honestly

most of the people are not doing what we did uh a lot of the people are doing Public service loan forgiveness um or they just kind of are on the you know 10 20e plan they'll eventually pay it off you know they make enough money um they want like the big expensive house or the fancy car and all that stuff doc iish correct did they look at you treat you like incredulously

like what do you think no never that type of situation just more so could tell that they didn't necessarily agree with it like that would be nothing that they would ever do yeah yeah but look at you yeah look at you I'm completely free 32 months that's

routy wow that is very cool what do you

tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you're successful at it um I would say my key is uh the budget and then also we we always had like really short-term goals but then also having the longer term goals we were always having goals that we wanted to get done within like you know a month or two and then also what's our goal 5 to 10 years from now like what do

we want life to look like so that's really what kept me going yeah I I would say like consistency so like we knew how much money was going towards debt and we set that goal from the beginning and just kept on going um and also um you guys

have heard the phrase or used the phrase dream dates um that was that was huge

for us like keep us motivated keep us going um look to the Future uh and what

Legacy we want to leave behind yeah you got to have a vision for your life correct and uh when you have a shared dream then that's the living like no one else so that later we get to live and give like no one else and that you got to have that later you know in sight in high definition and be able to tell what's really going on with

it way to go you guys way to go I'm curious I I I know if don't know if I've ever asked anybody this question but you're a financial guy and you're in that world and so you're Pro probably academically trained like I was uh the same way uh

because there's probably uh I don't know

two or 300 podcasts and radio shows on

money out there why why what what was it

that a financial guy goes well this is okay I can listen to this yeah I think for me it was honestly before for getting married to Lindsay I didn't know debt or have

debt um and I knew he just threw you under the bus I brought all the debt backed over I did have an investment Loan in a small car Lo but uh but I think the biggest thing is we

uh knew before marriage that we wanted to tackle the debt and with Co and no

interest we wanted to get it out of our lives for good I mean why this why why were you listening to this show Dave it's because of your personality oh my

God uh you and I scoot over so his head

can fit in here hold on you and

I uh no I just really liked uh the principles the baby steps uh now we're on four five and sixense clear path the clear path made sense yeah okay that that I'll buy way to go you guys we're very proud of you congratulations and uh also you've had a baby yes all right and brought you brought him with you right we did he's four now no longer a baby yeah that's right wow very cool very cool

so six years married four-year-old and 32 months a after med school boom this is gone hey we got a copy of the uh baby

steps millionaires book for you in the live and give box and the B The Total Money Makeover book and a Financial Peace University membership probably got all those already but you can give them away and find somebody who wants them and so what's the four-year-old's name Christopher all right Christopher here we go man ready your mom and dad have changed your life buddy you don't even know how much yet you have a family tree that has been changed by by two Heroes right here $360,000 paid off in32 months making 120

to 350 Mike Lindsay and Christopher from

St Louis count it down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're Deb

[Applause]

yeah that is how it's done you got to

love it so Ken there is an antidote to

the student loan crisis and uh we just

observed it yeah there human beings taking responsibility because the private student loan forgiveness as she said some of these docs are counting on has a 1.6% success rate 98.4% of the people that apply for that do not get it that's all of them so these docs have screwed up by

betting to their their Futures on the

private student loan forgiveness public student loan forgiveness act it's it doesn't work it's another time your government has lied to you and so we're

going to be having this coming Tuesday night Jade washaw Rachel Cruz me are going to be doing a free live stream for a couple hundred thousand of you that are going to be viewing it's at 700 p.m.

central Time this coming Tuesday night

student loan debt in America how we got here and how we're going to get out we're going to show you some real solutions this is ramsy Solutions that's

what we're here for and we're not here for something that's going to if if you looking for easy I I don't I can't help you with easy if you're looking for microwaving quick I can't help you with that we sell crockpots baby 32 months

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wow yeah go to ramsy solutions.com studentloans and sign up for Tuesday night this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

[Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Joe's with us in Houston

Texas hi Joe how are you pretty good uh

so my question today Dave and uh Ken is

uh I work for an automation supplier

company for the oil and gas industry I've been here for almost a year my responsibilities increased uh a lot more than I thought they would and I would like to bring up uh getting a raise to uh to my

leadership and stuff like that and kind of wanted to know about how to go about doing that how much have you got a number in your mind a percentage that you've done some research on or is this just a hunch and a feeling uh so so I'm I'm definitely

making less than what I was previously

what the job I left in you know uh where

we were maintenancing the solutions that

were uh being sold by by different

companies and now I'm designing and implementing those uh so I took a pay cut to come to this job for more freedoms more responsibilities and chances to grow and the number I've got is about 12 to 15% is what you want as a

raise yes and you've been there a year have you had an annual review or is that process in place uh so I had a six-month

review and everything was everything with that was was gold stars and from

what I was told so when did The increased responsibilities get put on you give me a timeline at the six month Mark and and you were told this it like hey here's what we're doing you're doing a great job gold stars now we're gonna add this this this and this is that how it went yes did you bring up okay hey I glad for

the review uh is there an increase in comp what's that look like how am I measured did you bring that up at the time so I brought that up at the time and the company I worked for is growing and uh so they were like okay we're going to push off your raise until so then I asked for a 6% they said we're going to push it off till October well

then the responsibilities that was It was supposed to increase it's gone beyond that in the in the six months because we're we're developing a new a new department for for our branch and I've been kind of given that okay and that's now between I make 825 okay

and so you're asking for like 10 grand yeah okay all right and they're

supposed to review it in October anyway so just a few weeks yes yes sir okay all

right I'd Hold the Line I'd hold the line on the number if and again Dave I I want you in the the own it's it's all The Narrative of how you couch it okay so just the the best way to do a a lot of these things especially in business is just trade shoes for a minute MH okay if you're the leader you're the owner you're the manager of that's making these decisions okay how would you want

to be uh addressed how would you want this conversation to sound and and I'm an owner of a company I'll tell you how I want it to sound um I'm happy to talk to anybody about their comp uh I'm happy for them to talk to leadership here anytime about their comp uh and and you

know here's the thing you're not entitled to anything you earn it and you have said you're earning it but I mean I had one guy come in my office Joe a few years ago and he's like well I've got this degree and that degree the poor guy had more degrees than a thermometer and he he said you know people that have degrees like me at other places

you know they make uh $50,000 more a year than I'm paying and I said yeah then you're you're paying me I said I understand that but we don't pay for degrees here this is a small business honey your raise is effective when you are okay and so that's what the owner is looking for your raise is effective when you are you've made the case to me listening to

you that you've been effective and you've gotten the increased responsibility and you're stepping up and you're taking emotional ownership of these areas and so you're a valuable team member is what it sounds like to me and so but the way you want to couch it if you're on the other side of the desk is how Joe I mean think about it you want to say uh not

I deserve more money simply go I think I'm

adding a lot of value do you think I'm adding a lot of value if I'm adding value I need to ask you how do I go

about talking to you guys in a proper way without sounding ungrateful because I'm very grateful I love this place I love the opportunity I love the growth I love the added responsibility um and I

you know what's the right way if you're me to ask you guys about compensation and I I I'd really like to make more and what do I need to is there anything I'm not doing doing that I'm that I'm do you know is there anything I can add or is there do I need to do something different to qualify for some increased compensation and if somebody says to me how can

I what can I do to make myself more valuable so you want to give me more money that's an easy that's an easy thing for me as an owner I can do that one okay I can go okay because you know like I had a guy one time he was working on a deal and he brought in an extra million dollars that really happened that blew my mind

he he did he added this thing to a deal he was doing negotiating a deal for us and he added this thing a and so and his commission structure did not pay him on that million dollars but you know what we paid him anyway you know why cuz I want him to do that again I got you okay CU he added value

you see what I'm talking about so a lot of value in that case that's a big number but the the thing is here I I think you say I am I I think I'm adding value am I adding value and and if I'm not adding enough what do I need to be doing to qualify for increased compensation because I really want to be one of your best team members

and I also want to make some good money and tell me how to do that man yeah I agree with that however I would also add to this Joe they promised you a 6% I I I would

ignore that because I think he's due I think he's doe a lot more than six% a joke in this yeah maybe he needs he needs he needs got to have some Marketplace research like if somebody comes to us and says yeah but he's he's in a startup and they're they're adding stuff they're adding new products they're adding new projects and things to his plate left and right left

and right he and he's making 80 already he's he's worth another 10 I think he is but he's got to make that case and I'm just pointing out that he's going in asking for 12 to 15 they've asked six he needs to show Market ranges I wouldn't asked for 1215 I would I ask open-ended question okay cuz he was saying he we had talked about six back in

the summer I feel like I'm doing all these things what have I got to do yeah oh I I always

say that too and you know that kind of thing and and then if they come back at six you go okay I need to know what I got to do to get double that cuz I kind

of thought I was in that zone and apparently I'm not so they've added responsibilities so if you talk to me that way and you don't you don't start trying to but let me soon as somebody starts playing hard ball with us at Ramsey on uh raay negotiation right we

just go you know it's probably not going to work out here right cuz we're not going you know you're going to negotiate come on I mean ask how you can help and if you kill it and drag it in here we'll share it with you baby yeah I mean it's not we're not greedy but but you know just I show up every day and breathe and so

I get money that's not what Joe's doing right but if you if you're out there and you think well I just show up every day and I'm you know actually took a shower daily and I expect a raise I

mean come on man there's no just shower daily Rays that's there's not one of those so uh you know it's crazy what's

out there and the way people think about this stuff so you know here's the thing if you want to be an extremely valuable team member always be asking what you how you can add value how I can lift the

place not what I can take from it so if

we're interviewing someone and the first two sentences all they want to know is what they get then we're done with the interview cuz they're there to take they're not there to add they're going to work a j o

work as little as possible come in late leave early and steal while they're there and so you want to present that the exact opposite of that scenario age when you're uh interviewing or when you're negotiating so to speak for a raise but it's not negotiating it's asking leading questions yes and also being informed in what you're asking we had a guy come in the other day in in one of our technology rol is a very unusual Niche role

but he said I got a I got a recruiter coming at me offering me X more and he goes I don't want to leave it's crazy amount of money he goes what should I do and and that's a way to approach it not like if you don't match this guy I'm out of here right cuz we'd be going see you wouldn't want to be you you know that's right

and um but but if he comes in and goes that you know what we we were not able to match it but he wanted to stay we were able to respond to his situation and make him feel good about staying by giving him a great raise yeah and it was it was an unscheduled raise hello so that's okay all that's fine but this is a how you

the attitude you approach it are you a giver or are you a taker are you a parasite or are you someone

that's adding to the whole process and if you're adding to the process and the people don't respect that with your in your wallet you probably need to look for another place Joe I think you got a good situation and you're a good guy this is going to work out for you this is the Ramsey Show hey it's Ken if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey

we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the ramsy way go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramseys solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

[Music]

[Music] Newsletter live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships thanks for joining us America Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book paycheck to purpose is my co-host he hosts also the Ken Coleman show on Series XM as a podcast here on the Ramsey networks and uh very

popular answering your questions about jobs and work and career and uh you can

find him every day doing that and of course be sure and check in with us here today he'll help you too the phone number8 825-5222

everything extra towards the house I could pay it off in six years which sounds great but my parents prioritize paying off their house before retirement so now they don't really have retirement okay how old are you I'm 33

Okay so if you did that you'd be 39

years old exactly so mathematically you would not be your parents because you definitely could save a lot for retirement if you had no house payment between now and retirement between between 39 and 65 right that's a

good point okay so your parents your parents the fear that came from your parent situation is not valid in your case however I'm still not going to tell you to do that but I just think it's good to work out the math for a second now um so you're out of debt everything

but the house right correct and you have

an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses set aside correct right I have 15,000 good okay

then you're at what we call baby step four baby step four is say 15% of your

income no more into retirement if you

have no payments but a house payment 15% of your income going into retirement should leave you some money in your budget and about 500 if I do that what's

your household income 77,000 pre-tax post tax it ends

it being about 57 and how much is your house payment it is let's see I wrote that down where did I go um

1,330 okay how are you paying off your house in six years if you save nothing I don't hear that in these numbers I have an extra 1,300 each month

Oh I thought you said you had an extra 500 each month that would be if I put into retirement oh I see so if you put 800 into retirement you'd have 500 to go towards the car okay and so what's your current car worth um roughly 6,000 because it's a

what do what do you want to spend on the next car I'm gonna need to spend at least 10 maybe 15 if I buy used which is the plan okay so if you buy 15 and your current one's worth six you need nine right and that takes uh what see

see it takes not even a year well it takes no it takes a little over it takes about 14 15 months to save that up at 5 a month right exactly okay so 14 or 15

months you got your car upgrade meanwhile you're putting 15% of your income in and then we'll start paying extra on the house I'd only have 500 extra to go towards the hosit if I would I know but you have you've also you've extrapolated out into the distant future no raises that's true too yeah so it's a miss so the reality is that you're gonna pay off the house probably in six or seven years while putting 15% away while

replacing this car with a decent thing everything you've described to me is very sane you are not a cray cray

American you're not out of control thank you I mean really you you're you're very levelheaded I mean you I I was a bit afraid you were going to say $35,000 car and I was going to have a small cow right here on the radio Okay so no Mom

Mom rais Mom and Dad rais distance yeah from that I'm telling you so you you really have your your your your feet on

the ground in a beautiful way you got a lot of common sense kiddo so you're going to be fine yeah so the thing is this you're going to accomplish everything the the way we ran out the case studies and the way we've talked to literally millions of people that we've made into millionaires is that this idea if you're putting 15% away don't put more than that but don't put less than that you're going to end up a multi-millionaire with that alone

and you're going to get the house paid off on average and your number numbers are not different than that uh you know under 10 years it might be seven it might be 6.5 and it depends on the curve on your raise as well how quick you how much your raise goes up and I'm curious what do you do for a living yeah I want to know this yeah

I work in marketing for a small company I'm just wondering Alex if you aren't thinking about the gig economy freelance marketing after hours

to speed up this buy a new car fund I

would really be considering that if you have the margin in your life with your skill set in today's Marketplace uh freelance work as a marketer that's what I would be doing to get the car paid for what kind of marketing you're doing for this small company um like mostly website design

Flyers social media helping them write content what I

love doing is like talking with engineers and then getting them to speak in English instead of geek that's a full-time job uh it's also

extremely valuable you're a translator in a digital economy um the uh so let me sometimes and you

tell me if I'm wrong but sometimes when someone says I'm a marketer at a small

company the small company part of the phrase is code for I feel like I'm not being paid what I could make somewhere else yeah they're very fair but no that

wasn't what I asked did you say that accidentally in that statement yeah like you make 70 but you

think if you moved over Yonder you might make 90 yeah I'd be thinking about that

yeah yep and freelance I can't say that

enough yeah and and lots of freelance stuff on the side because if you can do digital translation from the digital humans to the non-digital humans you have a skill how would you start tracking down freelance things well you got looked at Fiverr but it's so many International people that it's hard to find a gig no not intern you just start looking in your area uh you're just getting on

the Internet you're talking to people there there is a lot of freelance work there's a couple sites I don't want to endorse them because I haven't done a ton of research on them other companies like your company that cannot afford a full-time marketer yeah uh would buy it would would pay for some side gig uh contractor work to get the same exact same work done in that situation um

because we have a lot of folks inside of our building that do what you do they're they're digital translators I never called them that before for today but they that's what they do and so you get on a squad with the digital teams and then you have to learn to speak their language and then we also have to learn that the consumer you know what's the consumer facing

after we write this code what's it look like how's it sound how's it feel and that kind of stuff so yeah that's exactly what you're doing and that's a I'm telling you that's a very valuable skill in the marketplace right now I think you're worth more than you're getting paid probably you need to think about that you're an amazing it's fun to talk to you you're amazing very well done very well done you're going to be very wealthy

you don't have have to worry if you keep keep using the brain the way you're using your brain right now you're going to be very wealthy your your decision making skills your thought Paradigm is excellent this is the ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

Ken Coleman Ram personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America we're so glad you're here open phones at 8825 5225 hey guys um we can use your help if

you want to help us out it doesn't cost you a thing if you will click subscribe

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follow click that and use the share button and if there's not a share button just share tell people tell people or take take clip click a link out and go okay hey I saw this you guys got to start watching the show you got you won't believe it you got to start listening to the show you won't believe it and uh cuz it's absolutely phenomenal

how many of you are there thank you

uh the number of minutes being downloaded is just astronomical uh on the different uh versions it's absolutely crazy and we appreciate you thank you very much leave the five star review you know all those kinds of things really help change the algorithm of whether these different Services push the show to the front and and make it as a suggestion or not so thank you Austin is in Milwaukee hi

Austin welcome to the ramsy show hi thanks for taking my call it's a pleasure speaking with you sure what's up uh so I'll try to make it quick here but I have a two-part question that kind of revolves around my career that I was hoping to get some answers or maybe suggestions on what I could do as I've been listening to you for quite some time now

and ever since I've been trying to do everything right um but I seem to back myself in a corner here with uh work and any further work uh to Major my

income growth um and I'm so I'm 23 years

old and I'm truck driving for a career I'm a regional over the road uh trucker

so not uh Coast to Coast or anything I make about 62k base gross pay but after

all my overtime I gross roughly around 85k a year which is uh 5K a month after

taxes and uh rough 401K contributions I

have no debt although I'm looking to make more money only because I feel like I'm meant to do more and I love my career in company I work for so switching companies isn't something I'm really looking to do even though certain companies out there I could get starting at 105k a year by trading more of my

time for money and staying on the road longer which I know is a big battle between making money and taking your time the only problem with being a trucker though is that I'm restricted on how much I can work uh with a side gig

if I would or more so a side job and as legally you're only allowed to work 14 hours a day and a Max of 70 hours a week

but between each 70h hour work week you

need to be resting for 34 hours with no

pay even if it's a non-driving job um

and so the only solution I would have to

think about getting is

a under the rug pay uh cash pay job and

or do I just accept a fate and make an extra 20K by switching companies while

looking to try to make more yeah so what's more important to you is it is it staying in the the driving position you really love it and then having this time that you have now or is making more money what's more important because you gave us the whole scenario but it comes down to what is the biggest priority for you yeah I mean I you know it it's it's

funny because I do enjoy my free time but there's most weekends that uh I'm

either not doing something and I'm just sitting there kind of uh not having

anything to do and then I feel like I could be doing more well you can't be so here's what I understand so forgive my ignorance is this the regulation of the company saying hey it's Federal Regulation it's a Federal Regulation you're not allowed to drive so he so you can't yeah but he can't did I understand that you can't work you can't do anything any outside work and rece receive uh income because if it's reported it's outside the Federal Regulation is that what I'm understanding I could during the week

but I'm not home during the week except for one or two I got all right I'm going that direction okay so legally we can do something it's just during the week so what is how many hours do you have on a regular week where you're not behind the wheel of a car uh typically it's about well you got

48 during the weekends cuz we get off weekends and then it's typically uh about 12 to 20 throughout

the week all right so 12 to 20 hours is

what you can work with to do something else because you said I feel like I'm supposed to do more so we have to first look at what inventory of time you have

to do other work now we've got 12 to 20 hours so now you start getting into well what is it that I would do if I wasn't in the truck what would this different type of work I believe you've got those ideas I don't think a guy like you calls and doesn't have an idea to so what would you do if you weren't limited to the truck this other idea of work doing something more what is it well I've I guess I've always uh had

a had a not I I don't know if you call it a dream but I've always uh wanted to start my own business as I've had a really good idea with it and I could spend what's the business um uh it would be well make a business uh with protein bars um because I actually am a bodybuilder and that's one struggle I found with a nut allergy is there is not

a single protein bar on the market that uh doesn't contain nuts or at least manufactured in the same facility so let's make this big dream let's bring it way down for a second let's play with this 12 to 20 hours that's just if you

were actually working for somebody but you've got a whole lot more time to be able to to look into what would it look like like to put together a prototype

bar that doesn't have the nuts in it or whatever it is that you've got figured out you can figure out who's making these things how many different companies Across the Nation are putting together protein bars just like a manufacturer in any other business and now I start to research and I figured out and I I figure out what it's going to cost me who would make it can

I just sample it you've got all this time even behind the wheel of a truck to be listening to maybe podcasts about how to come up with a strategy to launch something like this there are people that do this kind of stuff it's free so you become an expert in what it would take to launch a protein bar that's it

we start there because if this is the dream then we're not going to just launch into the protein bar business there's a whole lot of work so you're using all this time to become an expert in what needs to happen then we look at the finance piece what's that going to cost and so now you've got a plan here's what I would have to do here's how much it's going to cost cost

so now you begin to save that money and you go slow you don't risk a lot of money you try it you test it this is a process so I would be

putting that desire to play in very

practical ways as I just describe and then over time you might see yourself going all right I got to take a different trucking job to make more money to come up with an extra 20,000 to put into my first protein bar and I've already got several local stores that are willing to carry it I don't have a ton of inventory which means I don't have a ton of risk

and I began to put it out there and I see does this bar go somewhere maybe you look into it enough where you go you know what I'm going to transition from the truck to actually working for a protein supplement company because I can do that I can work for them is this entrepreneurial or is it an

actual professional path all of that will become clear if you take your time and use all that extra hours and energy to dive into what is it going to take to do this thing and that's that's how I do it yeah you're the way you're describing

your situation is that uh there's only

two options doing what you're doing or

not doing what you're doing and um

because you're you're looking at it as an All or Nothing instead of an incremental by degree change and so what

I do is pan back and say okay I'm 23 when I'm 33 what do I want to be doing

what are then the then what must be true that's not true today for me to be able to do that a and then you start making okay there's 32 steps to get there over the next 10

year over the next 10 years we'll start taking those 32 steps and that's what Kim was describing the first steps of the 32 steps but you just Begin by degrees moving in the right direction a little bit at a time and that method of thinking will uh cause you to be able to move forward versus I I I'm stuck you're

not stuck you can do the little steps in the right direction right now that's what is describing for you this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause] [Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thanks for joining us in the lobby of ramsy Solutions on the debt free stage Joe and Emily are with us hey

guys how are you doing great doing good good where do you guys live uh just outside Madison Wisconsin

in a town called barbou wow very cool welcome to Nashville and how much debt have you paid off

$2,108 way to go and how long did this take 14 and a half months good for you

and your range of income during that time we started out at about 170 and we

finished up at about 200 excellent cool

what do you'all do for a living I am the guy that everybody curses when they try to get into those plastic packaging uh you're the plastic packaging guy I'm the plastic packaging guy I'm that guy oh okay are you talking

like when you get like a a box in the mail and you can't even get it open with an xacto knife yep that's that level that's me I really do curse

you I felt so good love it what do you do Emily I am a

Quality Systems engineer all right very cool well you guys are doing well congratulations what kind of debt was a

72,000 it was a mix between credit cards

we had an ATV um a HELOC loan that we did use for

some uh Home Improvements and uh a

school pledge for our church and finally a land loan so during the height of covid we went and purchased about 11 acres of course you did sure yeah I mean we'd been looking for land for quite a while and we just couldn't find anything that we really really liked and then this one just happened to pop up it's like nope this is it we just knew it in our bones

this was it so what happened 14 and a half months ago that changed everything cuz you guys were kind of normal you're just buying stuff on credit right and then you looked up and went this sucks we're not doing this what happened well actually the story goes back a little further um today is

actually our sixth wedding anniversary oh congratulations and uh prior to us

getting married I was a single mom living paycheck to paycheck and had over $70,000 in student loans m

um when Joe and I got married um he

basically took a look at me and said uh

can we do the best we possibly can to live on one income essentially and um

basically everything that I was bringing in throw it at TH those student loans MH

and uh we got married um long story

short um struggled a lot with contentment during that time um realizing that you know we were we did have a good income but trying to live on

that one paycheck and um I switched jobs in

2021 um and the great resignation kind of turned

into I don't know I was kind of looking at the great regret yeah and um just

trying to get through each day at work I was listening to music music uh streaming music to get through my day and one day I just happened to think you know I'll turn a podcast on instead um and I I call it that God

thing that must have happened I just happened to turn on the ramsy show which I wasn't very familiar with and I it

that's my best promotional item by the way it just so happened that I was

listening to an episode one day and it was Ken Coleman and Dave

Ramsey and um you were talking about uh

that very thing that I was living with about changing jobs and feeling like

basically you had wrecked your career by making that change and I was really

really in a dark place at that time really really hurting and um listening

to what the two of you were saying about

um you know basically being a slave to the lender

and as soon as you get your debts paid

off you can go do and explore what

you're really passionate about yeah and

um I didn't know what the baby steps were at that point but I heard something about an FPU class and I I knew I needed

to get that career assessment first of all because I I didn't know what I I didn't know I if I was doing the right thing or the wrong thing at that point I just I just needed needed some guidance

and so I wanted the that career assessment I I needed to uh get out of

debt so you go home and tell Joe all this and Jo's like okay awesome this is

what this is what I've been saying yeah this is what I've been saying she had a great big but now what happened was what happened was Emily you got a reason to

do it all of the sudden the reason was escaping the crappy job and the toxic environment right so I got to get this cleaned up so I don't have to come into work I don't have to do this yeah it changes everything very cool yeah it's a great why you got to have a big old why if you're going to do stuff you have to have a reason to do

it so all right let's fast forward yeah so you're on board right and and so you guys go let's get after this when you got into it was there a Moment In the Journey where you hit that big momentum where you really you both saw the Finish Line we can do

this I think so I mean even when we first started it was like Wow money we we got money that we didn't know we had MH you know I'm not a budget guy I'm not a guy that goes out just spends just to spend but I'm not no no I don't I really

don't but I like I like you know tools and stuff like that and if it's something I can use around the house I have no problem going on buying it but so I wasn't crazy with it but going down and doing the budget and sitting down every month and we do this fast there's money here yeah it was like pulling teeth to get me to do it

but once I started seeing the money showing up out of nowhere I was like wow where did all this come so the budget reveals and there's the momentum cuz you now have we can actually nail this yeah that's great there's a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train yeah and then it became fun because it was wow we we're watching these numbers just click off yeah

I get like boom boom boom boom boom boom boom here we go here we go here we go what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is I've been telling people look into your resources um as as far as side hustles

we had our little side hustles that we did but we also found other resources um

we have friends that have a hobby farm

and we were able to assist them on that farm and it cut our grocery budget

significantly because we were able to get the fresh fruits fresh vegetables from the farm smart and um what Joe is

really good at canning and

preserving Mr package Pro here yeah y I

love it I love it way to go you guys how

does it feel it's amazing to be free for the first time in six years and really more than that it's it's amazing um we

had a family medical emergency just a couple uh months ago with a family member and to be able to step back and say you know what we can do what we need to at this moment and not have to worry about um the money side of it was was

such a relief that's a big deal that's a big deal way to go you guys we're proud of you Heroes you're amazing man I just

they're kind of a little bit like floating they're not quite touching the ground pretty good that's pretty neat it's pry cool very cool and you brought your daughter with you right what's her name and age uh Reagan she's 13 all

right way to go all right so Reagan's whole life has been changed too this is pretty amazing hey we've got the live and give box for you it's the baby steps millionaires book The Total Money Makeover book and the Financial Peace University membership Give It Away use it however you want to do it it's our way of saying thank you and our way of saying congratulations well done very well done Joe Emily and Reagan Madison Wisconsin area 72,000 paid off in 14 12 months making

170 to 200 count it down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're death free

yeah this is how it's done I love it man

what cool people this is the ramsy show

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our scripture of the day Philippians 3:13 and 14 one thing I do forgetting

what is behind and straining toward what is ahead I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus

Benjamin Franklin said the Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness you have to catch it yourself

boy is that relevant today man that's a

mouthful that's a mic drop I gotta love

it mic drop by old Ben Jeremy's With Us Jeremy is in Tucson Arizona hi Jeremy welcome to the Ramy show thank you thank you for taking my call sure how can we help uh so quick question my son

youngest son got himself stuck into a whole life policy and of course I want to talk him out of it get him to invest in something

else so I know the biggest Hook is he

can borrow against his policy I know that with the 401K you'll

get penalized which leads me to maybe mutual funds which I don't know a whole lot about MH so I was wondering what's the major difference between the 401K and the mutual fund that he may be

able to borrow against in the

future okay um how old is your son he's

23 okay all right

um well I I don't think

um I mean number one let's just let's just ask the question why is he going to listen to you well I've had really good really good

relationship with him and the whole reason he got himself stuck in here was because I kept pushing for uh to invest

to save money to think about his

future but but then he picked a bad way of doing it right and when you say son this is a dumb way of doing it it's not a good investment program what does he say oh I can borrow against it that's

his big hook yes okay well no one ever got rich borrowing their Investments right they invest them and they forget them completely against it yeah borrowing against it is not is not a method of wealth building that's a method of selling Insurance crappy insurance but it's not

a method of wealth building right and that's what got him in he was actually looking for health and disability and death insurance is where is where he started looking and then they hooked on the whole life policy yeah so I mean my

my point is is that we can answer your question a 401k is not an investment it

is how an investment is treated for taxes typically inside of a 401k you're

going to find mutual funds so you have a mutual fund that's either covered with a coat keeping it warm from taxes and the

coat is called a 401k or an IRA or a Roth IRA or it has no coat and it's out in the cold and has taxed but in both

cases it's still a mutual fund could be the exact same mutual fund and um but

wealthy people don't build their investments in order to borrow against

them and so if he wants to become wealthy he's picked a really bad way of

doing it number one borrowing against it number two he's picked the probably one of the worst Financial products alive today p and is the whole life policy

because it has a horrible rate of return in the first three years that you pay 20x 20 times more for the same amount of life insurance so you buy a $100,000 whole life policy you buy $100,000 Term Policy if the $100,000 whole life if

policy is $100 a month the hund the

$100,000 Term Policy $5 a month that's

what research tells us so it's 20 times

more expensive $95 extra per

100 okay now where does that go it goes

into an investment called cash value and so you and the cash value has no buildup for the first two to three years they keep 100% of your investment as

commissions the first three years you have zeros on your cash value buildup the first three years well that sucks and once you get past having a really front-loaded horrible commission off the front end and it finally starts making money the average whole life policy according to research averages 1.2% rate

of return not going to get rich on that either oh and then when you finally get past all of that if you actually build it up you can borrow and pay them

interest to use your money so if you have a savings account

and you want to borrow and you want to take money out of your savings account you you don't have to pay money you just take money out of your savings account but with a whole life policy you want to take money out you have to pay them interest to use your money that you paid 20 times more to build up this thing

sucks oh and it's even worse than that you finally build up inside your whole $100,000 policy $220,000 worth of cash value and then you screw around and die which we all do oh guess what happens to your 20,000 that you paid $95 extra per month to build up after

getting p horrible rates of return and no and no Comm and no buildup at all for the first three years cuz they kept it all as a commission once you finally get 20,000 in there and you die they pay $100,000 they keep your savings account so if you had a savings account at the bank and and or if I started pitching you a savings account on Tik Tok

and I said hey here's your savings account the first three years you put money in nothing happens we keep it all after that it makes 1.2% and when you die you lose your money no one would put money in that that's a whole life policy so nobody ought to put money in a whole life policy so you can just play this rant back for your son Jeremy

when it comes out on the podcast and it'll answer his it's perfect it's exactly what I would do and I'm not even I mean that's exactly son watch this yeah this is just don't do it don't do it you got son of Jeremy you have been screwed by the life insurance industry and they are very good at their business of screwing people it's unbelievable horrible product let me tell

you if you're poor the way they get you is the

pawn shops the way they get you is the rent to own the way they get you is the payday lender the way they get you as lottery tickets if you're middle class

the way they get you is they make you believe you're going to get rich on airline miles using your stupid credit card well that's a dumb butt idea the way they get you is they get you into a whole life policy that's a dumb butt idea the way they get you is they go sophisticated rich people lease their cars no they don't no they don't it's a dumb butt middle class thing to do so the whole life policy is the is the payday lender

of the middle class it's a signal that you intend to be in the middle class to stay there the rest of your life cuz you got screwed by the insurance companies and I got to tell you man if you don't like that and you sell whole life you need to actually learn how your product works and then if you have integrity you'll quit selling that crap because there's only two types of people that sell whole life

the ones that don't understand it and the ones that are Crooks because if you understand that crap and you sell it you by definition or a crook because anybody

that would sell someone an investment that the insurance company keeps their money that they put in there upon death and call that a good deal is a crook

that's just bull okay it's just absolute scam stuff it just pisses me off and

I'll tell you what that I whole life I thought it had just about gone away and freaking Tick Tock has revived whole

life Tick Tock of all things yeah I mean

PE listen people if your social media sounds like a Tic Tac you you know

there's only one thing you should listen to on Tik Tok and that's stuff we put out but other than that it's awful it's a Barren landscape of morons that's great it's crazy absolute nuts oh God and the whole

life stuff is all over it like they just invented it yesterday yeah it's the oldest Financial product ma'am the financial planning Comm Community completely abandoned this garbage 35

years ago no one sells whole life life insurance except life insurance agents no one in the financial planning Community believes in it we've all been looking at it going You' got to be kidding for decades

and now that stuff comes back on Tic Tac it's unbelievable wow I got a new idea out of this rant a new sponsor blood pressure medicine for Dave when he goes off on whole life this is fantastic can't stand those people it's unbelievable I think you made that abundantly clear that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

hey it's Ken if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramsy solutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation again that's ramsy solutions.com and click get started

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## 178. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar cart rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money the ken coleman show is all about your career all about getting in a job and in a career field that you love doing work that matters that you're good at and where you can actually show up

and be glad for the time you spend at work and the way to maximize it so you've got career questions i need a job questions well ken is here to help with that and he's going to comment on everything we do here today as well so we're uh welcoming you in the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five so can this from forbes car shoppers on limited budgets can't get a break

the average transaction price for a new vehicle is expected to rise to a record 38 255 dollars in may according to jd power

sending many consumers looking for bargains on used car lots no such luck the combination of high demand and high wholesale prices dealers pay to acquire

inventory has led to record high prices for used cars toby russell co-ceo at

onlineusedvehiclemarketplaceshift.com told forbes the surge in used vehicle demand is causing bizarre bizarre behavior in the

form of used car prices appreciating

given the strong demand for consumers the tight supply situation that seems likely that used vehicle prices already at all time highs will continue to rise there's a silver lining for those looking to trade in their current vehicles vehicles demand such as pickup trucks crossovers suvs are bringing top dollar and the amount paid on a site right now is increasing 15 to 20 percent in some cases 30 percent over

the last year for the same used car first time in history used cars have gone up in value well they haven't over a period of a year but that same exact vehicle all caused by the covet economic disruption yep uh people in factories not making cars that's right also i read about people not in factories making cars that's right well i also saw that be because travel was literally almost suspended that rental car companies are a big source of used cars as well

because they'll order cars from manufacturers they'll rent them to folks like us and then after a certain point they'll sell them back and that becomes a part of the used car inventory as well so you have two things manufacturing as a whole also orders from carmel companies so it's really fascinating but i will tell you this i'm in the market uh i can't even believe i'm saying

this dave my oldest is going to be 16 in november so i'm already beginning to look just to see is there something right now that i could jump on and get it get a great deal put it in the garage and for him and so i've been looking a lot just uh direct to consumer uh

facebook marketplace is a great option there there's all kinds of auto trader and so outside the dealer i still see in fact i spent a good time this weekend a good amount of time looking there still are great deals if you're buying directly from someone else but to the dealers there's no question the prices are up i see that yeah and so the other thing that's happened was um i bought a used car last week and i bought it at market it didn't pay it was not up um took a little work

though yeah and i actually looked at the new version of that car and uh there's such a shortage on it that dealers are charging 20 000 over sticker for that particular car and uh now it's an expensive car but they're they're adding a premium on it on a on a new car because they they gave me a quote on the new one and i'm like uh dude

i buy it invoice and the guy's like not today you don't right and not right now you don't he goes there across town this same brand is selling these for twenty thousand over sticker he said well i'll tell you a sticker and i went i think we're gonna go used so i bought a used car and so uh but it's uh

uh man i mean it the this disruption

and it's just like the new housing like the new housing market is screwed up

and so it's screwing up the used housing market and then people go cray-cray and they get the chasing stuff and get the fever and it's like oh god oh god i'm not gonna be able to get what i want it's like a little kid on the cereal aisle having a hissy fit and then they over pay for stuff and so um yeah i used vehicles uh

there's a shortage and um definitely and there's a shortage for uh uh the new because there's a shortage on new because the factories were not dialed up and it's gonna take a little while for it to catch up it looks like it's going to take a little while for lumber supply demand to catch up right now lumber's selling for more than gold it's unbelievable it's true and drywall i've talked to a builder friend of mine brought sheets of drywall to explode everything plywood

the glue going into plywood there's a shortage on they're saying it's going to go up 4x before it comes back down but it'll come back down and these used cars will as well yeah so plenty but the good news is if you're out there and you like just decided i'm going to get out of debt and you're like i've got to get rid of

this really stinking overpriced i bought too much car yeah you know i got a 30 000 car you know 28 000 or oh 32 000 on

it this is a great time it really is it really is a great time to move down in car uh it's a great time to get rid of a car yeah that you that you're trapped in so that's the good news i'm curious to know what the trading values how much it's gone up because traditionally that's way way lower than what you can get if you sell

it yourself yeah demands you know the other parts of this article which i didn't read uh but the man mannheim is the largest wholesaler the auction houses that wholesale to the dealers and um they're seeing across the board about a 10 to a 15 bump wow and uh

so that's that's and then of course that's of a used car going across the

dealer auction dealer puts that back on his lot and um you know they're not in the business to lose money so they're gonna be marking it up that much so we're seeing this uh the the i i knew there were gonna be shortages because of covid we talked about that at this time last year because these factories all just shut down and it took them forever to come back um and you knew there were

going to be shortages but what i didn't for some reason i didn't i was dumb i should have been obvious i did not see the price increases as a result because it creates a shortage and drives prices up simple supply demand curve stuff and you know you get into that and uh but you're right the um the uh rental car companies hertz it owns dollar that sponsors

the dollar car rental studio so we've had discussions with them i didn't realize until we were sponsoring them and we were actually talking to them at this time last year because no one's renting cars and so they're all screwed they're all going into bankruptcy they're all you know right on the teetering on the edge and what they did was they just sold off half of their inventory liquidated

these used cars like crazy they dumped them on the market well now the market's gone the other way and now they can't get the new cars and so it's gone back the other way so they a lot of rental car companies have a shortage of inventory to rent to you

oh we see that all the time it's not unusual very normal it really is interesting and hertz is the third largest car dealer in america massive yeah that's amazing well you know it's like you said dave it's like we had all this extra supply but we burned through it and now the factories are trying to catch back up so it's going to be this way for a while i created a new uh thing as you were talking msrp now it's iii it is what it is

you like that so don't buy a new car anyways we don't tell you to buy a new car unless you unless you've got it and then some but now it's the time to stay away yeah yeah just just here's a plan not right now yeah i don't i don't need it that bad don't need it that bad this is the ramsay show

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ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book the proximity principle is my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five joel is in dallas hi joel how are you

dave i'm doing great sir uh good afternoon to you and ken i want to say thank you so much for uh what you guys do every day it's important to a lot of folks out here that are trying to better their lives and figure stuff out so thank you well thank you sir how can we help today so here's my question we're

on baby step four and um we i've got a 401k question the company that i work for does a very generous uh match

every year it's a profit sharing it's not actually a match and it can range between 10 and 15 of my total salary not sure what it's going to be every year it's not set in stone kind of fluctuates right now we are putting 15 into the 401k the traditional 401k every year

and have been for the last three or four years so we're looking good but my question is this do i need to be according to the baby steps do i need to be putting that much in given what my company is also contributing and then second part is do i need to be looking at adding the 401k roth option in as well

in addition to or separate well if you

change your 401k will either be traditional or it will be roth and it's better for it to be roth and so i would change it to roth from this point forward now the matching portion that they give you cannot be roth it will be traditional by law okay the matching portion does not affect our baby step four baby step four is you put in 15 of your income

if you get gravy on the biscuit extra gravy on the biscuit caught a match that's just that much more wealth you'll have but i don't depend on them at all

the point of the baby steps is you are controlling your destiny and so you put in 15 if they match if you have a match you certainly take that match and so matches better than roth is better than traditional that's the order of attack the rock paper scissors so to speak and um so yeah switch it to a roth and

you put in 15 which it sounds like you are and you just continue to do that can so the in the old days the um like when i first started this show 30 years ago uh still at that time a lot of companies had the traditional pension plans now 78 of companies have done away with pension plans they don't have them anymore and so it's pretty much a roth or a 401k or an ira you're going to do your own thing

and you're going to do it through your company and the that's the bad news the

good news is a lot of them match over 70 percent of companies do match because they don't do the pensions anymore yeah why did they pull that was it did it come down to taxes for companies or is it too much to manage why the shift from i didn't know that number i wrote it down because that was that was really shocking to me that that many companies aren't doing pension plans why would

they do away with them well they're super expensive they're super regulated to manage pain in the blood to operate right uh and because can you think about it i mean you have a team member that joins you at 40 at uh 60 they retire and you now manage this pension for them for the next 25 years yeah it's too much time and money and so it just becomes very cumbersome

and with regulations on them they didn't perform they don't perform that well they're not allowed to invest the way that i would invest or the way i teach people to invest so they don't make it they don't make a good rate of return and so uh but it's bad for the individual because now you the only way you have money in your 401k is you have to put money in

the 401k it's good for the individual though because the 401k is yours yep and the pension is not if the company goes broke it's an asset of theirs you could lose the you know the old story the mind the mind closed up papa lost his pension that's right you know and so because the the pension was not his it was an asset on the books of

the mining company that went broke and so they lost it now that doesn't happen as much but with the regulations and the insurance and stuff we've got now but the union mismanaged the pension and frittered it away you know these are real stories that have happened to real people when it's a 401k the company goes broke it doesn't touch your 401k because it's not in their name it's in your name

you know accessing it with a broke company with the hr department closed down maybe a bit of a cumbersome thing but the money is still there it didn't leave and so you you are controlling your own destiny you're responsible for it and that's both a blessing and a curse that's right because look just like it is when everything that we're responsible for we have to actually step up

and man up woman up and get her done miranda is with us in charleston west virginia hey miranda how are you great how are you doing better than i deserve how can we help so my husband and i were working on um baby step two we're going to zell intense and we're trying to we're looking at our numbers trying to figure out how to get our payments to go down um

we have a car it's a ford cmax a 2004

and kelley blue book has offered us ten thousand dollars and we owe 21 000 on it and that loan

right now has a 5.9 interest rate good lord

yeah so what is this car really worth

is kelly blue look shooting you that low are you financing negative equity from the last deal into this one um no uh we owed 21 000 on it and

they're offering us 10 000. i know what they're all i heard that part that's ridiculous so i'm guessing the car is worth 15 and they're trying to steal it from you probably um it's in pretty good condition it's 2004. it's elec it's a hybrid

did you finance negative equity were you in the hole when you wrote trade it in yes okay so some of this hole is from the other car okay so you need to do some more research and find out what the car is really worth because uh if a wholesaler kelly i didn't even know kelly blue would bought cars but if they do i'm sure they do and um

if i host they're buying it at wholesale because they're going to resell it for a profit which means that you put it on the market we're just talking about that coming into the show you're going to put the thing on the market for full value so check kellybluebook.com not counting this and just look up of the value do an appraisal on the car you can go to edmunds.com as well it means car guide and pull up and say private sale if i

put the thing on facebook marketplace or neighborhood marketplace or whatever these things are that are out there and you know uh craigslist and people still do that and so on uh i don't know is craig dead he could be dead but um uh but anyway that that's uh um

you know so along along those lines you going to sell the thing trader i know trader.com you can use and i sell it direct like ken's out there looking for a car for his son he talked about that a minute ago and so yeah you're going to probably find that car's worth 13 15 something like that it's probably not worth 10.

10 sounds insanely yeah yeah i'd have to know the mileage on that but you can get a really good value on that very easily multiple sites and you could you could really hone in on the condition of the car and i think you get the most as you possibly can for that because right now as we said an opening segment people are your car is competing against

the dealers who are selling used cars at a premium so if you sell it actually at market value you're going to be very competitive a lot more attractive than there's a shortage so yeah definitely definitely make sure you have your values right so miranda a good rule of thumb is this in a negotiation which selling a car is a negotiation buying a car's negotiation he with the most information

wins he with the most patience wins and he or she with the most options wins

i don't need to sell i got lots of options i don't have to sell it i'm not desperate okay so you got walk away power you find out every detail about what every car like that at every site is selling for and you become a dead gum expert on the used car market around that particular car information he with the most information and then you just slow your butt down

you don't get the fever people get emotionally like like they have people when they sell stuff they just they get emotionally like it's already gone in their minds and so now they have to give it away no no just just plan on keeping it a while and be a little hard to get along with when you're selling it you know come on now maximize this asset you need

the money you're broke this is the ramsay show

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so

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show i'm dave ramsey mikel is with us in seattle hi michelle how are you i'm good how are you guys better than i deserve what's up well um i have a

question that i i feel like is probably splitting here but i wanted to know what you would advise we currently have a 20-year fixed-rate mortgage and i'm wondering if we should finance down to a 15.

not for that reason only if you get a better interest rate because if you take a 20 and you calculate what the 15 payment is and you just pay that much extra it'll pay off magically in 15.

sure so you don't have to refinance to do that so what is the interest rate currently

it's 375 and i talked to churchill and

they said they could get it down to 275.

okay what's your loan balance uh 235. okay so one percent saving is

and 2350 bucks a year right

and if it costs you five thousand dollars to refinance you get your money back in two years if it costs you seven thousand dollars refinance you get your money back in three years so you don't make any money until you get your money back okay so are you going to be in the house a while yeah for a long time we planned okay all right i probably would refinance it and while you're at it put it on a 15.

but you don't need to re if let's say you had a 2-7 let's say you had a three percent 20-year mortgage i would tell you just sit on it and pay extra

okay you don't need to go to the refinance cost to pay it off early you just pay extra and it'll pay off early but you refinance you refinance if you can save not sending them as much money as you used to do you know as you used to send them and so um you know there's gonna send them 2 350 less per year for the next many many years until you pay the thing off one percent savings per year yeah so i'm refinancing that if you're staying and while you're at it do it to a 15.

charlie's in los angeles hi charlie welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thank you so much for taking my call really appreciate it what's up i am a small business owner out in california and it's been luckily a

pretty rapidly growing company over the past six years and i'm dealing with an employee of mine who is my general manager i think has a bit of a spending addiction which is making me kind of wonder if i need to do all the ideas from a raise or if it's best just to let him go when that time comes if i can give you a bit of a background on

this gentleman he's in his mid-30s three kids works full-time for me 80 hours a week he's a great asset to the company and he's in this management position for just over a year 80 hours a week

um 40 hours a week my apologies oh i'm on the bike yeah sorry 40 hours a week okay um now the issue is that he left my

company before when he was a warehouse packer he came back and he worked up to his management role but since then he has about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars i estimate conservatively in cars and like automotive toys um he kind of

mentions and complains about money and stuff but not really in like a i'm expecting a raise type thing i try to give him raises organically without him asking to award good work what's he made he did kind of he makes 45k a year okay and he just kind of casually in conversation asked me if he could start leaving earlier monday through friday to come in a bit on saturdays so that he could work a second job and just because he has left the company previously i just kind of wonder you know i'm not going to plan on letting him go but if he does ultimately say that he wants to leave should i try to keep him around or focus on my younger staff who are who have their potential and don't have as much how many times how many team members do you have total right now we have 15.

yeah the question i have for you charlie is forget the finance issues

is this guy a great leader for you or at least a good leader with tremendous potential let's set aside just for a moment your concerns about his spending and him asking around about a raise is he a quality team member that you think if he's healthy you could develop him even further up so the thing about my small company is that it's all been a learning experience kind of for all of us

he didn't really have any managerial experience but he's been doing a great job of learning but what i really value about him more than anything else is that he cares about my company treats it like it's his own and i feel like does genuinely want to see the company do well well i got to tell you that right there to me is one of the greatest characteristics of somebody that

they care deeply about your company and so he's he's unhealthy financially and uh i

i would sit down with him and have a man-to-man but come at it not from a judgmental standpoint to say hey here's what's going on i don't have all the facts here's what i think i know help me

fill in the blanks and here's why i'm bringing this up i care about you because you care about this company you've done a great job you've learned and you've grown and you're mentioning some things here and there why do you need more money here's what a a development plan might look like and here's how you'll keep getting raises and share a vision for him and see where he's at financially

and see if you can help him and pour into him and take care listen i'd get him financial peace i'd put him through it and coach him up if he's willing to do that show him how if he gets his spending habits under control how it will change his entire life you know i'd be willing to have that conversation if i were you because of what you just said about

this guy i think he's worth investing in now i think you got to have a point where you get to where you say all right i've invested and i've coached and and and

now it's up to him and if you feel like it's too big of a divide he's not going to get there and you feel like he can no longer be the employee that you need then you move on but i wouldn't try to anticipate him leaving i think that's managing and leading out of fear versus being proactive so when we're were doing entree leadership when we were doing entree leadership a couple weeks ago out in dallas um [Music] pat lencioni said

there is no such thing as uh any kind of leadership except servant leadership and so if you're going to lead him then you need to care enough to serve him and how are you serving him uh you got to sit down and go dude forty five thousand dollar income hundred fifty thousand dollars in toys you're doing vouchy math here this doesn't work okay you can't this doesn't work

you know you're not in congress you have to stop this for your sake you can't win doing this and i love you and i'm and so i'm just trying i'm just looking at you man to man friend to friend and going i'm going to serve you well and so you know i've had and our leadership team have had conversations with people inside of our organization over the years almost on a weekly basis someone

we sit down with and say listen i love you too much to just not tell you this you got it you got to know this is this right here is killing you this is hurting you and and so because here's the thing you're serving him then what you got to do is you got to go okay if he has a lack of judgment over there how long

before that lack of judgment regardless of how much he cares enters into our organization if his critical thinking skills have got him this far in debt i mean he's going to start making stupid butt decisions at work too and so we got to get him off the stupid butt train and get him on the train where he can learn and that's just loving the guy well that's serving him

when i serve my children and they're growing up it means i teach them how to behave and function in society it doesn't mean the inmates run the asylum uh because i love my kids enough to serve i'm going to serve you i'm going to make sure you know how to drive a dadgum car before i give you the keys i'm going to make sure you know how to behave

and say yes ma'am and yes sir and thank you and gratitude and you know all you know that kind of a thing and so you're serving someone by loving them well yeah

and by having hard difficult conversations with them yeah you got to sit down in this situation you say hey you're looking for a second job that means more work hours a week more time away from your family and this is all because you're not showing discipline over here and when you show them your teaching you're guiding you're instructing shoot them straight i'll i'll pay for you to go i'll pay for your ramsey plus membership

and you go you know you you uh that's what you tell him and you go i'll walk with you and i'll coach you and because i think you've got huge rock star potential as a leader because of your passion for this place and i really want to pour into you and lift you up yeah and you can set a model in place then on how you lead people for

the rest of your life there really cool question charlie you got a good heart man this is the ramsay show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five matt is with us in springfield missouri hey matt welcome to the show how can we help hey dave thanks for taking my call sure

um so long story short here my wife and i bought a house in 2012 at about 160 000 and we spent the last eight years paying off our house and we just did that last year in july and now my wife's wanting to move again and because her office got closed down

during the covid pandemic and she ended up working remotely from home now permanently and so i'm having trouble coming to terms with wanting to possibly take on another mortgage and so i'm kind of needing some advice on how i should handle this uh um okay so your current home is worth what we bought the home for 160 in 2012 and right now it's probably worth about 280.

okay and what's wrong with the house you have now nothing wrong with it she just one she doesn't like the layout and two there's no office space for her we're in a home like she works from the kitchen table and we have you know kids and everything and uh it gets noisy and she can't you know do client calls and stuff like that because it's too distracting okay so why couldn't you buy a 280 000

home with a different layout and that had an office well we've been looking and uh we haven't found anything in our area

uh of that price and uh with the layout

because you haven't looked in that neighborhood you've been looking in those expensive neighborhoods you could say that yeah no i'm sure of it i mean you know yeah that's the logo you're looking in the wrong neighborhood if you want to stay out of debt right well i i do want to stay out of that i don't know why are you looking in the neighborhood that has debt uh that's a good question

but uh the the area has just shot up so high that you know well then yours should have been shot up i mean a 280 000 home in springfield missouri's no slouch dude that's a that's a decent house and you could have a differently configured home that included a different layout and config included that for that same money and just swap houses yeah but what we're doing is we're using all

this other bs as an excuse to move up in house that's really what it comes down to yeah yeah i guess you could say that yeah i mean i want a different kitchen that's got like 70 000 more worth of crap in it

and i'm using this i'm working at the kitchen table whining as my excuse to go into that again so where in the process did you all lose or did she lose the vision of being debt-free on your home is uh worth it uh well i think it's just been over the course of since she's had to work from home the constant interruptions with uh kids being in the area and her trying to handle phone calls and get work done and

go renter in office yeah we've we've talked about that but we do pay for a private school as well for our children and we haven't been able to justify the cost of getting a rental office or her her business did have her set up to go to a rental office's office spaces and then they got rid of that option what kind of work is she doing she's a hr consultant so she's on the phone 80 of the day yeah she's handling she does a compensation mail analysis uh executive analysis who's watching the kids when they're not in school like how many kids are running around we have two kids and it will usually be me uh watching them but i i do shift work so i'll one week i'm working nights the next week i'm working evenings so i have a crazy work schedule i work weekends yeah well let me just tell you something by yourself let me say something dave's absolutely right youtube this is a relationship thing you guys got to sit down and and re re-establish the why why did we do all this for eight years what was the whole purpose of this and you know this is a pretty easy solve number one you're living in a hundred sixty thousand dollar area so today's point the two days yeah i know well i'm saying that's what they were yeah that's what they bought at yeah and then so there's a couple neighborhoods up so i think it's unsafe it's not like schools are awful so i think this big bad world you're in the other thing is is that you know she can work at the coffee shop or something just you know and make phone calls and step out or do whatever i just i just think this idea that we got to move somewhere uh for her to have a place to work besides the kitchen table i i just think that's a relationship thing where you guys have to re-establish the why behind this and then say okay we're willing to do this but we're not willing to go beyond the 280.

okay today okay and then if you want to trade houses trade houses but that off listen the tails wagon the dog here you're making a bad financial decision for a temporary situation

right yeah we're working at the kitchen table is not the way it's going to be for the next decade right she's not going to be at the kitchen table for a decade and you don't you don't go buy a house uh because of something that happened with covid these are you know i do not know when she'll be back at work or when they'll be funding the office

but you make plenty of money and so for you know what four or five hundred bucks you can go rent a single office in one of these office suites and just you know she can plan herself down there and then she's got a work environment that's reasonable and then if you want to trade houses for a better layout that's fine you could guys can do whatever you want

you got a lot of excuses for a guy that called in wanting help not to do this and i'm just telling you don't do it there's no chance no chance that i'm going into that in this situation none this is all a bunch of i want it and i'm a little bit uncomfortable and i'm sorry you're uncomfortable i'm sorry she's uncomfortable whoopi don't put yourself back into a mortgage over that

you finally got yourself free man remember what it was like having that thing hanging around your neck don't go back into the noose don't stick your head back in there man don't put your foot in a bear trap again them things hurt man don't do it don't do it please please don't do it and and you know but you you know is there a valid part of

this that she's trying to do business in an

unprofessional situation yeah go around an office and do it tomorrow that's what i would do in your situation i'm not going into debt for an office in your home over covet no you know what the new thing is now is literally these uh closets that are offices it's like a new thing uh you look it up online i'm not kidding where people are turning closets into miniature offices we could at least do that no i'm not going in the closet

she makes 175 000.

when we went broke and lost everything i said never again and i meant it never again are these bozos going to have their thumb on my neck never again is american express gonna call my house unless it's a wrong number

never again there's not a chance i am not going back there's not anything you people can do to scare me enough there's nothing you can do to make me mad enough there's not anything you can do to make me greedy enough passionate enough to go into debt the borrower is slave to the lender and i am free and i am never going back it's easy for me to say

and and i can't imagine you and stacey having that conversation to be any different no yeah it's look every time that you allow your emotions to drive you then then you lose sight of decisions that you have made many you know what i mean and your critical thinking skills critical thinking is gone and i feel this i feel this i feel this and in this situation you made a great recommendation

they can upgrade and still be mortgage-free yeah it's easy

it's not a bad it's not like not enough enough enough that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five anders in washington d.c hey andrew how are you

good dave how are you better than i deserve what's up so uh we've been working the plan for three years um we paid off just under a hundred thousand dollars in debt and then the next two years spent saving up and obviously doing the emergency fund and we did the 3b we saved almost 200 000 we put down money on the house then we have our emergency fund in place great

so we're looking to kind of do the four five and six perfect um now the 15 got that that's great we start investing in retirement and now the question i have is the 529 should i do that or a

separate broker's account that's not a traditional 529 specifically with our income and then we don't know if our kids are or are not going to go to college okay well uh what is your household income so right now it's a little over 200 but

kind of projected to go up okay well to start with no one knows that they're killing kids are going to go to college but we're for sure know that if they don't have the money it's going to be harder so a 529 grows tax-free i love keeping the government's hands off the growth it can be transferred to a sibling it can be transferred to a parent another family member

it can be transferred if they don't use it if they got scholarships they can you can pull from a 529 the equivalent amount of the scholarship with no taxes

tax-free growth and so yeah i'm doing a 529 i'm not going to over fund it if you have concerns i'm not going to put 200 000 in there but but i'm definitely going to put 40 or 50 60 grand in there depending on the age of the kid and maybe even more but uh uh

and let it grow you know a brokerage account infers that you're buying and selling stocks and you don't need to be doing that especially for your kids college so i don't want that much risk i just use good growth stock mutual funds in a tax-free growth in a 529 and that and you choose the mutual funds and you choose to move them around that's the type of 529 you want we're very specific about that in our in financial peace university and in the total money makeover but yeah just

you know you don't have to overdo it but don't under do it either and overthink it about whether your kid's going to college or not

interesting so when we start the show 30 years ago the assumption was everybody wanted their kid to go to college and now they don't yeah and increasingly becoming the case but also point out here that these 529 plans that money can be used for non-traditional college education as well so trade schools that's anything from tech schools i mean you can use that and and so you're seeing more and more opportunities for people to get qualified to do the work they want to do so it's not like you're you're you're being unwise buying it for their private school when they're 1 k through 12.

use private school while they're uh k-12 you can do any kind of post-secondary education there's all kinds of stuff you can use it for legally and it keeps the government's hands off of it and so you know if you put twenty thousand dollars in there and it grows to eighty or a hundred that's eighty thousand dollars with no taxes on it i like that i like that a lot better than screwing around with

it in a brokerage account that's right and a lot of options tons of options uh gustavo is with us in tucson i mispronounced that how do you pronounce your name sir i did say it you nailed it well it didn't mess it up hillbilly spanish is just a hard thing dude i'm just saying so what's up man uh well i kind of had like a weird question that i'm on baby step i'm finishing up baby step three

next month just to give you a heads up of where i'm at and i want to get a toy i had one when i was in debt but i want to make sure it's kind of weird because my vehicles aren't worth too much and the toy that i'm looking into which is the rzr razor run they run about 15 000 news and that's more than my vehicles combined

but i'm we're kind of happy with our vehicle so that's where my question is kind of is it weird that my toy would be more expensive than my vehicles even though we would be in a position to of quiet catch yes all right i mean it's which it's weird you know it's weird that's why you're asking right you already knew it's weird but it's cool they're neat they're neat vehicles man you're talking about

the the um is it the can-am make that who makes that the razer does uh polaris polaris makes

it yeah that's right yeah yeah i've got some friends down at cabo that have have them and they all ride up the beach at cabo those those things are very cool they they look they look neat too man and they will haul butt they they're fun yes so uh yeah and you're you're in tucson so you're doing like desert desert action with the thing huh right yeah

i mean i could make it all the way to phoenix i'm sure yeah i bet you could yeah that's they're they're very cool it's a cool vehicle i i kind of want i kind of want one myself but um

anyway the yeah uh your cars are uh your your daily

driver transportation your family depends on those your income is dependent upon those um and so yeah the uh you know a

snowmobile a sea doo a boat uh a razor should not be

worth more than your cars uh it's just kind of a common sense thing it's not really a financial thing uh so right all it says is that you're probably not quite there yet that would be my opinion and of course you made the mistake of asking so i'll give you my opinion but the um

yeah that's i i i mean you've got you got a toy in your house i do but it was a gift to you on that it was and as you know i'm cash flowing the renovation of it yeah he has a classic car yeah got a 72 convertible karma ghia uh found an old guy uh in the hood that loves working on him and so he's gonna help me put

the carpet kit in and just do a little bit at a time because we have kids in school and and other things and and so you just have to go at the speed of cash like you said when we built this place and so i got the exterior done still a little bit more to do and it still looks pretty sweet it looks sweet but yeah you have to kind of what's

the ratio on that i mean understand what he's saying he's like well i got baby step three now he needs to get the baby step four actually put that in the budget then he needs to begin to save for something like that yeah and you you know i i and i don't know that i have a rule and i'm just kind of sitting here thinking on the fly

but right really you're if you're if your boat is eighty thousand dollars and your cars are ten thousand dollars that just seems it doesn't seem right you know and so if your razor's fifteen thousand and your cars are five thousand that seems backwards yeah you know and it but those razors are very cool they're very yeah i think he may have talked you into buying wise i don't need one right

i don't know why but i'm probably just because it has a motor and goes because it's fast it goes wooden wooden there you go man so probably got a loud muffler i can make a redneck muffler on it oh sure redneck anything up you know that there you go [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 825-5225

if you're tired of feeling stuck with your money like you'll never get out of debt or save enough it doesn't have to be that way you can get a ramsey plus membership that includes the ever dollar budgeting app the world's best budgeting app it includes financial peace university where you can go through the class learn step by step how to get out of debt like millions literally of people have done

when you budget you get intentional with your money you get a clear path you start working it you're going to make progress you're going to make it fast you can start budgeting you can start making these steps free starting today with a free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33

789 text trial three three seven eight nine ld is with us in indianapolis

hi l.d welcome to the ramsey show

i did listen to you for a long time my wife last night or you really have a first baby hey when's he coming anytime you know all right good for you

yeah yeah pretty excited uh we got some pretty total goals for the future and so we'd like to we're trying to grow our income as much as possible trying to decide if now would be a good time for her to maybe advance her career and become a dental hygienist she's an assistant right now but it put about 10 to 12 an hour on her pay

uh caveat to that would be

we one of our goals is for her to be able to stay at home and be a bigger part of our business within the next 10 12 years or so and so

just trying to decide if it's

if it's justifiable i guess interesting so what would she do in the business if she stayed home with the baby and babies potentially and worked in the business what would she be doing uh with a farm full-time i'm a farmer and

so you know she she's uh she's also a pretty good bookkeeper and things like that and so

okay uh my mom take my mom takes care of a lot of that right now but you know in the future okay so so she saves you money by doing

the bookkeeping that you're paying someone else to do or she's replacing mom she would probably be you know doing a lot of what my mom does okay so you have to weigh all right she wants to be home sounds like that's what both of you want versus she now continues to work and

there's the cost of the schooling the cost of getting qualified to become that dental hygienist and you're looking at ten to twelve dollars an hour so you start weighing opportunity cost with the emotional costs and i think that if it's stacey and i we're gonna sit down together in the old-fashioned grandpa and and grandma conversation the pros and cons of both of those so which way does her heart lead

the most which if if things were just has she wanted them forget about the money equation and making more money and all the benefits that come with that what does her heart want to do

oh she definitely wants to be able to stay at home at some point all right so why are you back and forth on this where were you at the start of this phone call would like i said we just we've got some some things we'd like to accomplish and her her income helps helps with getting there what does she make

she makes about 30 right now okay so that this would put her at about 40.

uh hygienists are in our area are in that 50s yeah 50s 50s okay i mean okay and so

um what does hygienic school cost

uh well we live in the middle of nowhere and so it's about 30 000 but it'd be a pretty good a lot of travel time involved with that too it was a new baby two

right takes two and a half years yeah

so we have time and money here that we're popular right right yeah this is more than just working for uh working uh

with the baby at home this is uh two and a half years of training in it and by by the way during that time she's not working right

it'd be pretty tough it'd be pretty tough on her yeah yeah yeah so

it's costing you 30 a year in income

and it's costing you 30 000 over two and a half years and she's traveling and gone so that after two and a half years she works for six years making twenty thousand dollars more i mean you're gonna she's gonna make money on this transaction but it doesn't sound like it's worth it yeah yeah that's been her back and forth yeah it sounds like by the time i mean

if she was gonna do it for the rest of her life and make an extra 20 000 a year and loved it and it was the long-term goal that might then the equation starts to work mathematically yeah but right now you're not going to get enough of her increased income before she's willing or before she's able to come home i think you start figuring out what she could do from home to create an income while she's helping

you with the farm stuff in there with the babies i think maybe we look at shifting that i bet you she could come up with a side gig like a christy wright business boutique idea um i mean if it's just selling stuff on ebay i don't care what it is yeah and then it may be streamlining operations on the farm remember we're saving money that's more money in our pockets certainly to a farmer

you know the thing that point out here uh is ld is that her

heart is not in it if i heard on there that her heart she wanted to be a dental hygienist what she's always wanted to do she loves it loves it loves it but she also wants to be a mom for a season then i think this is an investment and a sacrifice that you figure out how to do but i'm going to tell you with that kind of schedule

the schooling you're losing your income as it is that's going to create all types of sacrifices and a squeeze and and when you don't have the drive the juice for something i'm gonna tell you it makes it really really difficult and it can put you behind emotionally not just financially daniel's in columbia south carolina hi daniel welcome to the ramsay show

hello dave thanks for thanking my call sure what's up all right so um i'm in baby step six um i'm 27 and my wife is 25. um basically

my mom reached out to me um asking for help um she had a lease of the fleece and she want to pay it off basically it ended up the lease ends up this month um

and she asked me to to borrow from me to to 2k and basically um she asked me not to tell my wife and obviously you know we are we have jones account and also um

what's your question yeah what what's your advice in my situation i don't do anything that i can't tell my wife anything ever if i'm in a meeting and they say all the discussion in this meeting has to stay in this room you can't tell your wife i get up and leave the meeting there are no things on this planet that i can't tell sharon that is against the law at ramsey world

it will get your throat cut by your wife while you're asleep dude you can't be hiding crap from your wife

hello is that right yeah yes i'm trying i mean your mom is out of control

where's your dad are they divorced yeah no they're they are together they have separate accounts and actually my dad let him lent her 10k to he lent his own wife money

yes that's strange

okay so uh mom i can't do anything that i love you but i can't do anything that i can't tell my wife and don't ever suggest that again because it's not gonna it's not a profitable conversation for us to have okay mom can't do that and if you need uh two thousand dollars you need to talk to your husband my dad and you guys need to work on your finances

and get them get them combined and get them straightened out but i i think your mom i think your mom is trying to hide all of this from everybody and still trying to find a way to snake her way through this and it's time that the cards are played a face up on the table mom is getting ready to be exposed and needs to be yeah needs to be

so she needs to talk to your dad and she and your dad have got a lot of work to do but you don't need to get involved in this son you just lovingly say no i don't hide things from my wife and i really think you need to talk to dad about this he's got the money and you guys have the money and you all need to fix

this so sorry can't do it love you mom love you mom no chance

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[Music] ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today on the phones in minneapolis is going to be kristin who says on my screen kristen you're debt free congratulations thank you hi guys hey how much have you paid off 61 091.37

love it how long did this take 48 months good for you and your range of income during that time okay i went back and checked and it was 32 000 to 51 000 and now back down to about 40.

wow so what do you do for a living i'm an accountant and recently a ramsey

master financial coach ah okay so starting to get some extra income that way yeah very good good for you

so what kind of debt was the 61 000

so a lot of it was medical just kind of stuff that surgeries children being born and then just like once we would accumulate it it would just hang around and payments payments payments there was some personal loans and a big family loan that we had to do repairs on our home okay wow good for you so how much was

the big family loan that was was like 22 000 that was the

big one of the whole bunch then that was the big guy hiding in the closet yeah gotcha okay so what happened four years ago that put you on this journey so my marriage was coming to an end and that's when we separated our money and i had always wanted to be debt-free and become an edm so that was like pedal to the metal

okay so fresh start after the divorce yep and um you already knew about our stuff but you were just now able to do it because of the the disagreement in the household before yeah it was like uh you know putting on a lot of throttle and the car is in neutral now now i actually got some traction okay good for you

all right so you're going to be an everyday millionaire that's your future i love that yeah and what do you tell people when you're coaching them now that the key to getting out of debt is because you paid off 61 000 in four years making 32.

yeah for me there was three three things and i would say the reason which is my voice the plan obviously and then just the determination

so we just saw a picture of the four boys right yep on youtube there good looking family

yeah thanks that's fun you got a lot of why there yes wow for sure so i i want to ask you when you decide it's you're coming out of this divorce so that's a painful thing and you decide all right i'm going to restart reboot do it the way that i always wanted to do it you've got those boys as your why every day looking at him uh what what fired

you up the most in this process was it the first one the first debt that you paid off on the debt snowball was it just the boys um what was the real

driver for you once you got into the process where you began to experience some momentum i think i had a lot of little loans so

getting started and getting those paid off there was a lot of immediate you know payoff for those and i just knew what i wanted to give them i didn't i didn't want a house full of stress and i wanted to give them a good future not like just giving them money but showing them what to do and they they hold me accountable i got a debit card mail to me and i open it up and they're like mom is that a credit card

they're always watching me that's great that's so fun very cool so they know the rules then they know what you have to do oh yeah yeah very very fun cool so um how long had you been familiar with our stuff before your marriage ended uh quite a while um i think my folks introduced me to your radio show and back in like 2010 and then i coordinated and fpu starting in 2011

and then i did another one before my last son was born so i've done a couple of those and i was just kind of hooked because i'm a natural saver and so once kind of the shackles were off and we found a better church that i wanted to be at and i started tithing again and i think dave you had said like a month ago when you talked about god throwing open the window of heaven he sure did in my case because it's like

once you know we were pushing the bike down the hill everything just kept piling on i swear i have food show up in my freezer that wasn't there i had a expedition that i think two of the pictures are like a time lapse that i got when my son was seven months old the oldest one and he's 12 now and i've

still got it it's just about 300 000 miles on it but stuff just kept being a benefit there was just kind of blessings from everywhere wow can i ask you what did you do to take go from 32 to 51k what happened um i my regular job was not 40 hours so

i had a base of that and then i did a lot of side accounting work

and then just try to get and i got a couple more clients and stuff like that and then um i worked for my mom who's a cpa and i did tax work at night

just kind of everywhere i could pull from yeah that's great very good you're a hustler yeah you're getting her done girl proud of you very very well done good job who are your biggest cheerleaders other than your boys um i would say my parents because they've been down that road and they've been debt free for a while i have a lot of friends i don't have a lot of naysayer friends i got a lot of friends who are debt free or are on their way

and then yeah these these kids i can't say enough about them because they never complained they knew what the plan was they volunteered i don't need a treat we can save it so i'm just really proud of what they have learned and how they keep me accountable very cool very cool powerful kristen what are the boys names

so aiden is 12.

gavin is nine mason is seven and morgan is four so we're going to try to coordinate it they're coming in here they're going to do the screen all right they've earned it no question about it very cool what a great family project we're proud of you great job we've got a copy of the legacy journey which is the next uh chapter in your story as you said you're gonna be an edm

and everyday millionaire you are on your way kiddo and uh and of course another copy of the total money makeover which you'll be able to give to someone and pay it forward and get somebody else's uh journey started with that best-selling book so good stuff all right kristen and the gang 61 000 paid off in 48 months making 32 000

extra side hustles up to 51 part of that time count it down let's hear a debt free scream all right ready boy three two one [Applause]

i love that sound yes that is the sound

of a family tree being changed right there you heard it yes those boys lived that with her yeah what a legacy single mom uh leading modeling the way i just you know i'm

always blown away by the stories of everybody we get to hear their debt-free journey but certainly uh you know anthony o'neil and i got to host a show last week or a single mom making 32 000 same thing same thing and i i have a special place in my heart for those ladies yeah step up and do that we all do it's hard enough to parent uh certainly by yourself

and then and then go through that debt-free journey i want to point out something dave that i thought was so heartwarming you asked her who were her biggest cheerleaders and she said beyond her parents were friends she said they weren't naysayers they had been on the journey themselves and i just want to point that out that when you decide to live like no one else you better hang out with people that are that are on board

and will support you you become who you hang around with birds of a feather you read what they read that's true you talk like they talk you um you know you attend church like they attend church you treat your spouse like they treat their spouse i mean this is this is you become who you hang around with so choose carefully my friends choose carefully this is the ramsay show

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carol is with us in sacramento hi carol welcome to the ramsay show hi dave how are you better than i deserve how can ken and i help okay i have a question i'm actually a ramsay coach and also an everyday millionaire we have three homes that are paid for and we are also a co-owner with one of our children due to due to a divorce

our question is this if we sell one of the rental homes we could net about 560 000

which is almost enough to pay off the kids homes and surprise them we don't quite have enough or about 60k short of paying off both of the homes

should we do that or should we keep the house or should we sell it and put the money in mutual funds i'm confused you said kids homes two homes we have yes two homes okay and two adult children okay and we're co-owners on one of the homes

okay but you would pay it off and surrender that ownership yes okay because you're only a

co-owner because you had to bail them out in the divorce yes and then my our other kid has his own home and um okay so you sell the rental and it brings 560 000 but you need 620 000

to do this exactly and you don't have the other cash we kind of do i just don't know if it's smart to pull that out of because we would we have other funds it's not our retirement funds i just don't know if it's smart to do right now um we're getting eaten alive in capital gains we're paying about 200 000 in capital gains so what is your net worth

probably about three million okay uh i would do it but i would only do it if you pull out enough out of your other investments in order to actually do it

if you don't actually pay off the mortgages it kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it yeah kind of because from what i understand um in california you can only get so much money per year so we may not be able to do the whole thing all in one uh you i don't know california law but in this in the the federal taxes there you have a gift

tax limitation that this is well in excess of but you can use some of your federal estate tax exemption called a unified estate tax credit and you just have to do a file you have to unified as state tax credit and you're using some of your federal exemption up so when you die you would have used some of it up already um but you're nowhere near the limits anyway it's like 20 million

so you're fine that's what you would do to get rid of the federal gift tax i do not know california tax law at all so you'd want to you'd want to consult a tax professional to figure that out i suspect that that unified estate tax credit would also apply in california i i bet you it's aligned with the federal guidelines this is my guess i'll be shocked

if it's not um but california does some weird butt stuff to tax our people so i don't know um but anyway yeah so uh

your net worth now becomes two and a half and they have paid for houses the only other question i've got is would they commit to never borrowing money again for anything

yes yeah i wouldn't make it a big deal but i probably would have like a little one-page letter in both of them and their spouses sign it if we pay off your home you never borrow money again and so our family tree is completely changed never borrow money again for anything for any reason yeah ever and by the way you shouldn't have to if you don't have a house payment you'll be able to save up

and buy anything you want to buy yeah yeah that's and just you know we we bring in a nice income off of the rent we don't have to have it so that's kind of my dilemma too i'm just like should we how old are you

sorry how old are you guys we're in our 60s yeah i would do it yeah

really yeah okay and pull the other 60k out of yes i would not do it unless you're going to pay them off i mean there's no point in paying it down that doesn't do anything you still have a stringent mortgage so but get rid of the the debt and have them both sign a little one-page letter um just type it up and just talk about legacy and how

you want to change your family tree and everybody participates i think that's a fair trade and then after that you just don't bring it up and you can't go managing their finances anymore this is their life you don't get to interfere this is a gift uh but it's pr the gift is predicated on the fact that we're changing our family tree and that is a fair level of control in return for

the gift yeah let me ask you on that are you saying in the letter that they are committing they're just asking the kids to commit to that they're not going to be checking up on them that's what you're getting at correct there's no strings attached but it kind of is well it's a it's a promise

yeah i like that it's just a promise i promise in return for having my mortgage paid off to never borrow money yeah i think that's fair that's a family oath so to speak but it's not a it's not a legal commitment and no you're not going to check up on them once a year and look at their balance sheets and no you're not doing any of that it's just like

you know if they go and buy a house and put it on a mortgage in the future you would just look at them and say you broke your promise you know that's it that's all it is and then you just go well that's sad you broke your promise because you shouldn't have had to yeah if you're because the kids are going to be millionaires pretty quick oh yeah no question about

it they'll be there very very quickly depending if they're if they are you know learning from their parents model uh to not borrow and to be generous and to be investors they'll get there very very quickly open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five matthews in phoenix hi matthew how are you doing well dave yourself better than i deserve how can we help

i have a question about refinancing we owe about 131 on the house with about seven years left of payments after refinancing about

eight years ago and my wife is going to be losing uh

going on to uh full disability probably within the next six months to a year and unable to work which will be cutting our income into half uh to have money for medical expenses would it be smart to refinance to lower the um house payment to cover medical expenses in the future what do you make uh currently uh 45 for my work and then

with the veteran uh disability i collect

another 24 000 so about 65

a year nine yeah and then your house payment's about 15.50

okay um what does she make

uh currently about 60 to 70 so after

uh she's what is the nature what is the nature of her disability uh it's a terminal um illness that's

slowly debilitating her where she has uh chronic fatigue and unable to stay awake

or uh work oh my how old is she uh

mid-40s and i'm in my mid-30s wow

i'm sorry man uh that's a battle we've been going through but still staying strong and trying to follow your way as best as possible to prepare for the upcoming future of

her health issues

seven years is so fast you're going to be done i hate to have you walk away from that but i would not trade uh

quality of life if we've got a terminal diagnosis for anything so yeah i probably would can i probably would consider just because i don't only want you to have the wiggle room to make sure you got medical bills and stuff covered i think you can cover the house payment i think you could cut it out and make it but it might mean that you don't get to do some things with her that you need to do while she can exactly so it was the odd of being

debt-free because we only owe 131 on the house and you're almost there in seven years oh i hate to have you lose that but yeah if you put that on a 15 it will relax that payment considerable and uh you can circle back later

and maybe still make it in seven years or or eight years or something you never know exactly where this journey is going to take you but um yeah i mean you you you need to concentrate on her

okay just wanted to hear from you because i know always snowball forward and we've been doing really good the last seven years after taking your course i would love to see you finish it up but not if it means that you lose some experiences with the time you have with her that's not a that's not a good trade i i wouldn't but either way is okay but i just

wow heartbreaking i'm sorry

this is the ramsay show

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hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

this is the ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today he is the host of the ken coleman show which is where you learn all about your career all about jobs all about how to get them how about how to find the work you love and so if you have questions about career and work he's here to help and we're here to help you in general so jump in at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

canal is with us canal is in columbus ohio hi canal what's up hi how you doing better than i deserve how can we help i had a quick question about

self banking with whole term life insurance and whether it's worth it if you accrue a cash balance and borrow against that and pay interest to yourself or if you should stay away from that and keep using a bank yeah um it's an absolute scam

it's a whole life policy it's not a turn it's not a term policy it's a whole life life insurance policy basically whole life life insurance is where you pay 20 times more

for the same amount of insurance and so the extra 95 out of the hundred dollars goes into a savings account and um that you earn very little on

after you finally start to build it up and then one of the ways they're pitching it now is the self-banking concept where you use your own money which by the way when you have a checking account you are using your own money i don't know why they think that's magical

okay perfect i guess i won't use that no i i wouldn't use it i would stay completely away from the company that is offering it and any other offerings that they have because it is a really really bad product and it is a scummy way to sell whole life life insurance which is a scummy product to start with but no one sells that stuff anymore except people no one believes in

it or talks about it positively except people that are in that business and this whole thing of you can borrow your own money why would i want to borrow my it doesn't even make any sense dave but this is the power of marketing i mean the message here is really look into stuff i love that people can call and get advice on this but really dig into stuff

and and and does it make sense and if it doesn't make sense why doesn't it make sense but they've put some wonderful marketing copy on this yeah so from yourself give you another one it just keeps it yeah isn't that great and you pay and you pay them interest right to borrow money from to borrow your money that you saved up in your savings you're moving money from your checking account to put

it over there to them to not even get a good return on it to get it back it's just it's mind-numbing it's like moving a pile of rocks from one side of the yard to the other back and forth back and forth back and forth and so here's the other one uh whole life life insurance you can uh you can use it cash value insurance grows tax-free well no

it doesn't that's a lie but here's how they propose that you do this you overpay for your insurance by 20 times for all of your life your whole life that's where it comes from they take your money your whole life and finally you have some money in there let's just say you've got 50 000 in there now if the 50 000 is in excess of

what you paid in and you take it out that is taxable because there's a gain right yes but

not if you borrow it

and so you put money into this investment now you can borrow your money that you put in there back out and pay them interest but it's tax-free yeah well no kidding

doofus when you go to the bank and borrow 50 000 they don't charge you taxes on it it's a debt yeah

of course it's not taxable debt is not taxable but it's not a tax-free growth on an investment like a roth ira or roth 401k it's not even on the same planet

yeah it's the same kind of stuff that he's dealing with there and it's this whole idea of but but boy i mean

you talk about i mean they're almost as scummy as the timeshare people yeah they're almost that scummy yeah they're almost as scummy as the payday lenders they're right up there that's straight up manipulation what you just laid out for us as clear as you could lay it out that's manipulating people lying yeah we could call it dave ramsey is giving bad advice because with whole life you could get tax-free growth

no you can't yeah no you can borrow your own money and pay them interest right and borrowed

money is always tax-free because it's borrowed right it's not an actual investment so yeah that's how that works but but i'm the crook and i'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about according to that industry now if you want some people pissed off at you that's a good group of people to have pissed off at you the time share people are pissed off at me yeah the uh car fleecing people are pissed off at me the payday lenders hate my guts and the whole life people oh my god you

would think i would have you taken on the rent to own furniture people yet you know they just don't do much anymore right okay i'm just trying to think of anybody else while we're we should just go ahead and get a full list of the scumbags people you don't get christmas cards from yeah yeah well i mean rent to own is actually you know i have they are taking on a couple of our books

and a couple of our courses over there yeah but i don't really hear from them much yeah it's not a popular moment yeah the nothing down same as cash furniture people they're not happy with me no best buy screwing people with that stuff for decades yeah this ain't the best buy people yeah you know it's not hard to figure out yeah the product protection plan people they don't like either yeah yeah all

the extras why is it that everybody makes you the bad guy because you're trying to save people money well i'm just trying to save people that's the point yeah you're hurting the big corporate scams and so that's why they come at you yeah like everybody didn't already know payday lenders were a screw job like like all of america knows time everybody knows a time share is like

the worst thing on the planet yeah and like they're shocked that dave ramsey said it out loud the time shares are scummy yeah oh my god of course we said it out loud they were scummy long before i back when i had a hair they were scum yeah well when you offer all these free things just for a meeting which by the way i did it one time

you didn't i did you went in the tiger cage yeah because the package was so nice and stable you see the tiger for an hour and you get a free pass to the zoo for a year tiger hasn't eaten in four days but come in the cage and pet the tiger for an hour oh here's the deal i didn't pay attention to my wife this is a great story she's like you're gonna have to sit

there and listen i'm like trust me i won't i'm the guy that goes there's no chance well i went in just mr stonewall

i'm not gonna do it like you're the only one's ever done that i know and then sat there and just got worn out i tried to be rude i tried to get kicked out i'll give the guy credit he made me sit there for 90 minutes but i'll tell you what i got all the stuff too so that was it it was the last time i did it it was not worth it it's our first year of marriage buy your own hotel room yes

buy your own hotel room it ain't worth it no don't pet the tiger in the tiger cage yeah it's good he will eat your butt yeah you'll come out of there with a 26 000 time share that's worth a dollar yeah you can't sell it for a dollar on ebay you can't get out of it no you is stuck baby you've been petting a tiger don't go in the tiger cage no wonder he hadn't eaten in three days there's nothing as greedy as a time share salesman oh my god this is the ramsey show [Music]

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if you're a business owner or leader listen up financial wellness benefits are no longer quote unquote optional for your employee benefits package yeah financial wellness is a thing the research team here at ramsey solutions recently put out a report that found that half of all employers say their employees are stressed about money yet only 18 percent feel responsible for their employees financial well-being well that didn't make sense your employees bring their money stress through

the front door with them because they come to work with it every day it's hurting your business with turnover missed work lost productivity delayed retirements you got to fix this team to get our team's report on what's happening in the workplace with financial wellness and learn what the employees are actually facing

you can add financial wellness to your benefits package and will help your business text wellness to 33 789

wellness to 33789

our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from jennifer in texas she writes and i'm 48 and i've been in an industry for 20 years that i'm not passionate about i've done well

but i'm burned out and feel trapped i would love to go into nursing am i crazy to quit my job to go into a career where i'll make less than one third of the income if i stick it out for two to three years we could pay off our house and i could just quit completely but i'm not ready to retire is the financial and emotional roi from

nursing school worth going back to school or should i stick it out well let's first address the fact that you can work full-time while in nursing school is it very very difficult yes but you can do it you can certainly work part-time in health care even where you can get some experience and more importantly connections for nursing when you get out of school so i when you know

the reality that you can still work that you can cash flow your way through nursing school here's what you can realize you might be able to pay off the house in two to three years while you're cash flowing your way through nursing school and if it's really about love i would love to go into nursing so if you really love the idea of caring for people in that nursing profession

you can make really good money be very very fulfilled for another 10 you know years 10 12 years based on your age so is it worth it you have to answer that but i would say it's worth it if you can cash flow your way through and not go into debt because you've worked so hard to get to a point where you're going to pay off the house

so sticking it out for two to three years in a job you can't stand i don't think you need to do that i would make preparations to part-time

nursery school or if you can go full time and make some other sacrifices i think you go for it i completely agree completely agree and if the you know her last question is the financial and emotional roi from nursing home school worth going back to school yes without question you'll love your work and you'll make good money yes and you can pay off the house yeah yeah

and uh i don't think you have to stay in the job i agree for two to three years and i love the part-time idea so absolutely so yeah the thing is this

you know but make sure that you love

nursing not you love the idea of it very good and i and not you love um

the money you could make that's correct so here's how you know that for those of you who are looking at this question in a different field or maybe even nursing how do you do that so what she does is she gets around other nurses this is phone calls zooms coffees lunches and by the way there's tons of different types of nursing uh er labor delivery checking people in at surgery there's a lot of different nursing positions

and by talking to you know as many nurses as you can in all those different positions here's what happens i get head knowledge they tell me what it's like day in day out what it's like to move into that position how you advance you learn everything and then what happens is your brain processes that information dave your heart eventually goes ding ding ding or and that's why it's

so important to really know what it is then your heart will confirm and now you're ready to go don't just assume you're gonna love it joe's in louisville kentucky hi joe welcome to the ramsay show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up well my fiance and i um she's not a u.s citizen but she's lived here for about eight years we plan to go back to europe or move back to europe for a year to two years while

we do the

application process for her permanent residency and i'm curious if you think i should sell my house or not

uh yeah yeah i would it's a great time to sell a house okay and then if i do sell my house what should i do with that extra money i think i would have somewhere between 80 and a hundred thousand dollars you don't have any debt we would we have no debt uh which our our finances are completely separated now sure but we're um but we have no debt neither one of us other than

the mortgage and um her family has a place for us to stay for the time we're there so we would be living rent free we both work remotely okay so your incomes won't change

correct that's cool what do you all make

i make about a hundred thousand i'm self-employed to engineering and she is in marketing and makes around 50. excellent cool when are you getting married um well that's that's a big question we haven't planned all that it'll probably be sometime in 2022

okay all right um yeah i i i uh i think i would as far as where you park it if you're gonna park it for one year probably just a money market account you're not gonna make any money but you're not gonna lose any money if you're going to park it for two years or more you may want to consider putting part of that into some mutual funds something like a an index fund an s p 500 fund or something like that

i do some of that but now i understand that that money goes up and down and you could lose a few thousand or you could make a few thousand doing that um sure you know you're not gonna lose 80 000 doing that but you might lose uh eight you know uh or something like that so that you gotta if you want to play that a little bit

you could that's a medium risk way to take a chance of you know instead of making eight dollars you might make eight thousand dollars but you're not gonna you're not gonna get rich on any of this well it's just sitting there as you're just parking it until you're married and come back home and so forth so uh obviously the citizenship thing changes when you're married right yes

and the process is delayed due to covid there's a big waiting list so that's she hasn't seen her family in quite a while so that's why we're choosing to do that in europe we could do that here but we kind of have to stay put can't be in and out of the border while that process has taken place oh really that's interesting as far as we know yeah okay

i don't i don't know how it works honestly i'm completely ignorant of that i just know that when you're you marry an american citizen it changes the process uh substantially uh and so you know i i would guess that the sooner the marriage happened the sooner the citizenship would happen in other words but i think i would want to know about that uh i heard that advice

and i'm just sitting there going what would i do in that situation and because of the medium risk factor i'd probably park it in the money market but i because that me going i i know that it's going to sit there it's not going to gain much at all but i know it's there we're going to keep making money keep adding to that so then when we come back yeah

but i mean but there is a benefit i mean the money you could make i guess to me it felt like too risky for me yeah for the bulk of the time i've been on the air i would have just said money market right for that reason just don't worry about it you know and because uh but you know in the last decade or so i've parked a lot of money short term [Music]

you know and a time or two it's been down i pulled out let cause i was gonna go buy some real estate with it it was down and i had lost a little bit a timer most the time though it was up and i made a lot yeah uh during the time it sat there uh and so what i started realizing was the risk wasn't that heavy it's not that big it's not huge

i mean eight thousand dollars isn't gonna change his life that's to make 150 000 between them yeah you know so if you want to play with it that's fine but if it's emotionally going to keep you up at night then certainly do the money market yeah this is the ramsay show

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[Applause] in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the

debt free stage j.c is with us hey jc

how are you i'm great how are you dave better than i deserve welcome good to have you and where do you live indianapolis indiana wow welcome to nashville and all the way down here to do a debt-free scream that is right love it how much have you paid off i have paid off nineteen thousand dollars or weight 19

188 dollars good how long did this take

um it took 14 months wow and your range

of income during that time i started out at about 24 000 and bumped it up to a little over 36 000. good for you what do you do for a living monday through thursday i am a dental assistant and then um i have been a dog groomer for the last seven years so i do that on

the weekends that's your side hustle then mm-hmm okay very cool what kind of debt was the 19 000

it was a endless cycle of credit cards

and then my student loan and my car hmm

how much did you owe on the student loan in the car 3 500 on the student loan and my car was 9 000. okay all right

and that i paid to my parents ah that was a debt to my parents so it's good to get rid of that too yeah that was a big deal yeah i hear you i hear you so what happened 14 months ago lit you on fire girl you got after it yeah um well i

was working for a um grooming salon and they had unexpectedly

just closed the shop like so they told us they were done and they were filing bankruptcy and we were out of a job

so i was like man i have a lot of debt

like start of the year i had a lot of debt i had lost my job and so i uh just decided to that it was time to figure something else out i didn't really want to work for anyone else in that like grooming so i started up my own thing that was but you were already working the dental yeah at that time okay so you had that job all along but that side job ended

yeah and that woke you up yeah because i i really wasn't making too much money at the dentist job like i can make a bunch of money just grooming so that was where i really made a lot of my money okay all right wow good for you well congratulations and how did you get connected to us parents have listened to you guys for a while and i they'd mention some things about

you and they've always said you know i'm really not been one to be super responsible with money more of a free spirit so i wanted to kind of prove to them that i could really stick to something and and you know get it done and especially when it came to my finances so they knew that i had been in credit card debt for a long time and

i just it would come the start of the year my tax return would come and it'd all go to my credit card debt so i was done doing that so what did you do you started listening to youtube or watching youtube podcasts on spotify broadcast every day to and from work every day okay got real serious about it and that gave you everything you needed to do

this it sure did yeah so you didn't have the books or anything from your paper no but i did end up going to the bookstore and i found one of your older books the total money makeover and i started reading that um and then i decided to sign up for the fpu class oh okay and uh i was like man 100 should i

spend that like it could go to my debt i'm like ramsay said just do it

so i did the fpu class and it was definitely worth it it was a little difficult because it was online during covid yeah so um i did the

best i could with my three-year-old running around um so but but it was

still fine and worth it i mean i stuck to it good for you i'm proud of you i bet your mom and dad are they sure are they really are they were cheering you along yeah it was it was a big deal for christmas instead of getting a bunch of presents i saved up two thousand dollars and gave it to them to put towards my car wow

and uh that meant a lot to them they really were not expecting it at all and so to see them you know hear them talking about how proud of me they were and you know just the hug from my dad and the pat on my back and you know it just it got me fired up to finish paying off the rest so that's cool yeah wow very cool

you

jumped from 24 000 to 36. and i'm

guessing here is that some overtime but also a lot of dog grooming a lot of weekends yes without the little man i mean i miss him a lot the hardest part was being away from him that much i mean it was monday through thursday full time at the dentist job and then thursday night into sunday i was grooming like every single weekend what kept you going he did that's beautiful right there my three-year-old that's beautiful yeah and um i have the greatest accountability partner which is the doctor i work for tony um

every day and he knew how much this meant to me um every day he'd come in and we would be talking about the weekend how many dogs you have to groom this weekend how busy you gonna be how much money you gonna make and it just was like you got to stick to it you know a lot of my time went to that and now i can say it's worth

it now you're free yeah how's it feel i can breathe that's that's how it feels i can breathe finally how old are you 26 26 years old

and you've never been debt-free as an adult have you no no it was almost like having a credit card was a competition how much did you get approved for you know my credit limit's 4 000. what's yours that was like my 21 year old mindset yeah yeah so got you in trouble uh-huh

wow yeah you have to feel

uh one lady said accomplished

i mean this was a not just a 19 000 debt

paid off you changed i did i've changed so much through this whole experience i mean i really thank you so much for this i i don't know how to say it but it's just it's been so eye-opening like i can raise him without having to worry you know all my money's going to my debt and not to what i could be doing more for him you know i've got his savings fund for his college started i've got my retirement fund going

thanks to thanks to tony you know he he's really helped me out too he's it's awesome coached you alone

yeah that is just so cool well well done well done jc and your

young man's name and age you want to get him in the shot for the debt free scream his name is cyprus and he is three you want to come up here come up with mom while we do your debt-free scream she's worked her tail end off she's a hero she's changed her whole life man i'm so proud of you so powerful so well done good stuff

all right it's jc and cyprus from indianapolis man 19 000

paid off in 14 months making 24

to 36. uh we are looking at some people

who have changed their lives i'm so proud of you got a copy of the uh legacy journey for you that's the next chapter for you to become wealthy now unbelievably and you are on your way i'm so proud of you and a copy of the total money makeover so you can give it away to somebody awesome so we'll give you one of each you ready all right jc and cypress count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt free

[Applause]

oh man [Applause] that 19 000 when you're making 24

to 36.

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our scripture today ii corinthians 9 8

and god is able to bless you abundantly so then all things at all times having all that you need you will abound in every good work winston churchill said the pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity the optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty

my fico score is zero i don't have a fico score it's undeterminable that's what they call it sounds kind of evil but yeah i'm undeterminable so how do i survive how do i make it i pay for things and if i don't pay for them i don't buy them now i know that's weird but it's a it's a it's a freeing concept keeps you out of debt you can teach your children to be counter cultural in a culture that has lost its

and we've just dropped prices up to 80 on our best-selling kids products so you can have fun and have an educational summer the adventure pack is a family favorite that includes the new story time collection financial piece junior the smart saver bank and more to make learning about money actually fun the best part is you can add an extra kit for each sibling or if you've got a teen the teen entrepreneur toolbox by anthony o'neill is the perfect safe and flexible way for them to create their own summer job teach kids the right way to handle money while they're young that way they won't live in their bait your basement when they're 30.

at ramsey ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com

store tina is with us in phoenix hi tina welcome to the ramsay show hi jake hi ken how are you guys doing great how can we help yes so i've talked

to ken last week and i wanted to thank you ken for your advice well that's awesome what would you do so i i was not getting a recommendation from my boss and your advice was to

flood the potential employers in box

with references that could speak of my character and so with it being a long weekend i did that today and after a couple of years came through they said they would like to speak with me and it as long as everything goes through tomorrow i'm going to meet with the teachers and that goes smoothly then i will have a job and they said they were very understanding of that sometimes relationships just don't match

and but they're willing to give me a chance oh i remember this so tina i want to tell dave what happened so tina had great references from previous teaching positions but had a personality conflict with the principal at the school that she just left she was worried that because they wanted to hire this new school wanted to hire but that one uh leader wouldn't give her a recommendation

and so i told her well do you have a lot of other relationships in the school system that can vouch for how great you are and that this was kind of a an outlying circumstances so she went and did it and uh looks like she's going to get that opportunity so good for you teen a way to not quit you did that you're the one that went out

there and believed that you had a reputation uh worth sharing and uh that's really awesome very cool tina yeah i thank you guys for the advice i really appreciate it so i just wanted to say thanks it worked yeah thank you

you did it you went out and fought for it fight for things folks yeah but you know what you told her she could and exactly what to do and she just executed she went and did it yeah and you know sometimes we tell people what to do and they go home and don't do it you know that's right like too often um and then they call us two years later

i should have done it uh but then then other times it's that's that's why we come down here is people like her that's exactly right you say go do this and you'll start winning and she goes does that and then she starts winning that's pretty cool it's fun got the job got the job the ken coleman job technique there it is i love it that is absolutely fabulous amy is in sacramento hi amy welcome to

the ramsey show hi thank you so much for having me on sure what's up um all right so i started a business

last year while i was laid off um and then i got called back to work right as i was about to start looking for clients i'm really eager to quit at least by april of 2022 and focus on my business

full-time it's a bookkeeping business if i didn't mention that and um we already have six months worth

of an emergency fund saved up we plan on

having an additional twelve thousand dollars by next april the thing is my

husband has a job where he gets laid off

quite often he's in a labor union um so we would only be able to last about five and a half months on that extra 12k if my husband were to get laid off otherwise how long how often is he laid off for five and a half months i mean he was like in the last two years he was laid off once for six months um other than that i would say usually

like maybe three four months on average man this job sucks yeah i'd be getting out of the union it does suck but we're waiting until he gets his journeyman card because then you can quit and you can take that anywhere you can work for the city or something like that yeah

we're in it for the long game unfortunately yeah okay so how long before he gets the tournament card um so i think it'll be probably

another like three or four years

wow you're tolerating a lot of crap for that hours you know so every time he gets laid off he doesn't get hours um

but anyways so if he gets laid off we could last on on that extra 12 000 for about five and a half months um otherwise we'd have to dig into the six-month emergency fund or i'd have to get a job again um what do you think about that am i crazy for wanting to quit when i what is i mean you're assuming your business makes nothing i mean

i don't i just don't want to estimate that i mean is your business not made any money all right i mean right now i have two monthly clients i'm netting aside from like clean up work that's one time project um i'm only netting like 300 a month obviously going you don't have a business yet you got a glorified hobby right well the reason why i want to quit

and go full time is because i'm still like learning the business and i want to focus my attention a hundred percent wrong way you got to flip that you got to keep doing these side side jobs like this let's get that up to 900 a month and then let's get it to 1500 a month and let's see how many hours we can actually give to it and really really hustle

and grow your credibility based on your experience but you don't go all in um yeah you get experience then you build it up okay so what if i were to take a part-time job

with the full-time job no your part-time job is learning this side hustle that's right and growing this side hustle that's correct no this listen you cannot

justify giving up your whole career and giving up everything and walking into something that's 300 freaking dollars a month you have got to prove this i mean not right now i know it's right now so prove me wrong go make some dadgum money you do whatever you want to do kiddo but i'm telling you that's dumb don't do that yeah okay yeah let's incrementally

let's get let's go from two clients to three or four clients or let's let's drop the two clients replace them with with more work from clients that'll give you more work we want to get your billable as a bookkeeper this is all about your billable time what you have is a theory right now yeah you need to move it from theory to business a business is something that makes money ongoing that is substantial that

you can live on you need to grow a business and as the business gets up close to what you're making now then you quit your full time but you will have proven your ability to make money doing this

you have to do that and you've got this dream in your head that if you just go full time it's all going to work out honey it's not how it works because you haven't figured out how to run this dadgum business yet you haven't figured out how to make money with it and you got to go make some money that's the whole goal here everybody's willing to do what

it takes very few are willing to wait as long as it takes and that's where you are the tension for you right now is you don't want to wait because you really love this bookkeeping and you get this day job you want to get rid of here's the problem you're not ready your day job's going to fund the dream job go build the side business build it get

the doc get the boat closer to the dock don't be jumping in the water thinking you're hitting the boat the boat's way out there still yeah you need to get it up closer so you can land in the boat when you jump please please do that that puts this hour of the ramsay show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramsi show.com thanks for listening

[Music]

you

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## 179. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 25, 2023)


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[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Dr John delone Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author and host of the Dr John deloney show on the Ramsey networks is my

co-host today we talk about your life

and he does as well including relationships and boundaries and family and money and oh we're going to do it all today and we're going to talk about you right in front of you the phone number is 88255 225 the advice is free and some

say it's worth what you pay for itle

8825 5225 one week from yesterday John's new

book hits and that means you've got just

a couple of days to get the buying a

nonanxious life book building building a

buy buying the building i' like to buy

one buying the book building a non- anxious life I'm trying to get all these in one sentence here it's it's running on and so there we go the book is coming

out and if you buy it on a pre-sale you

get $75 in free bonus items including

the ebook the audio book and one of John's talks uh instant access to that

smoke fire and freedom that he did at

one of our smart conferences so jump in

and get all of that before the book actually comes out next Tuesday you

don't want to miss this and um we are

seeing record numbers of these books come out I was just in a marketing meeting this morning here and it's uh

the number of you that are uh thinking

that he may have something to say intelligent about this subject is amazing because he does uh and the good

news about this it's not a psychology book that uh will put you to sleep it's

actually on the Shelf where everyone can reach it yeah that's important for me to

um you know we've we've got a world now

where Stanford Medical School professors are able just to crank out a podcast and talk to each other some really high level stuff some amazing insights into the human mind and I often leave some of

those exchanges like thinking two things wow that's amazing and all right what do I need to do right now right so and so

this book is I handed it to my my 13-year-old and said can you read this go through it and he read it and he said

Dad I'll give you two stars and then he

then he laugh that's brutal um but it's designed for everybody to be able to access it and read it and then to more importantly Implement a plan on how to make your life better because um anxiety

is not the problem as it turns out it's

the alarm saying there's a problem right

and that problem might be that your body is scann the environment recognized you're lonely it might be that you have

tied yourself to a bank and they're telling you what what to do tomorrow it might be that your marriage is falling apart it might be that you've been

trying to hold up the universe all by yourself for a long long time and um

there's several things that will set your alarm off and um we have an entire

world designed around the idea that the

problem's over there the problems over there the problems over there and I'm challenging people to go look in the mirror and say what can I do right now in my home or with my family with my community and start making these things better right now yeah wow wow good stuff

folks check it out go to Ramsey solutions.com and get it while it's hot

building a non-anxious life $20 it's a

deal on a book today I was was looking

at some uh data the other day um our

publishing guys were bringing me the average hardback book right now in America is $32 really yeah wow I didn't

realize it had slipped up we haven't raised our prices enough and well we

haven't our cost of goods has gone up like 40% because paper's gone way up yeah and uh and we haven't raised our prices enough and that's why I was in that meeting they're trying to show me like you're we're being doofuses and so

we're going to fix that but uh not right

now right now you can get this for $20

so that's pretty cool not 32 if there

was coming out of another publisher out of New York it'd be 32 right now that

that's what the deal is that's the average price right now of a hardback advice book uh so check it out the phone

number here is 88255 225 Autumn is in Denver hi Autumn

welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave and

John how are you doing today better than we deserve what's up so my husband and I have quite the

conundrum we've been together for 15

years uh married for almost 13 of those

we love each very much and we'd love to stay married

but we feel like we've tried everything when it comes to managing our finances and we just can't seem to agree the last

step that we have not tried is divorcing

our finances so I'm calling to ask if we

should divorce our

finances what would that get

you well let me give you a little bit

more background so we met at 21 and 24

respectively and had equal amounts of student loan debt so we both had about 20,000 each so we decided that easiest

thing to do would be combine our finances We Were Young we didn't have

any assets so it just made sense so

however we both come from very different financial backgrounds and I tend to be

on the offense and he tends to be on the defense and we both feel like we're

pulling each other and dragging each other Along on a path financially that

we don't want to be on he was pretty

steeped in fire the financial Independence retire early movement and would prefer to spend less and retire very early uh he's 39 I'm 36 for

perspective uh he'd like to be retired tomorrow if he could and I prefer a slower burn I'd rather make smart decisions found Investments and work harder and earn more to achieve our goals and Lead maybe a more comfortable

lifestyle so if he retired today what

would he do with the rest of his life well the things that he enjoys he'd

probably still make money but that's

always the question that I have asked he's built a life he doesn't

enjoy not necessarily he just doesn't

like to work

so let me just cut to it this ends in Ash Autumn because y'all aren't dealing with the core issue the core issue is

you're trying to live two independent

lives next to each other in the same

bed and until you decide on we want our

life to look like this and we're going to reverse engineer it starting today to

build it together you're going to be

like Jim Halpert and Michael Scott

you're going to be co-managers of this thing and then eventually it falls

completely

apart well we've made it work for the 15

years you know that we abely have and I

had a 1994 uh F-150 that I duct taped

and glued together and made work for a lot longer than it should

have so you're saying there's not a healthy way to divorce our finances and

stay married and I'm G to tell you the the further along you go trying to

pretend that what what John's saying is was when you agree on your spending and

saving goals you've agreed on your life

on your life and your values and you're

not in agreement on those things you don't have a husband then you have a

roommate so we actually come up with a a

yearly budget an annual budget we do a p

if you want to do it go do it you call

Nast us we're not talking about budgets

we're talking about your budget reflects unified

values and you don't have that you have

two independent people trying to live in independent lives and call it something that it's not okay so you haven't seen I mean I

know there's other people out there that have have separated their finances and say it was the best thing you know because oh Lord Jesus they they can

knock your lights out you called me and asked me they can say everything that they want great great what I'm telling

you is this isn't about money hear me

say that it's not about your money it's not about your finances one of the key things we learned in studying 10,000 millionaires was none of them said I

drug my spouse into this Kicking and

Screaming almost all of them said I had

a unified plan with my spouse that

caused us to be able to achieve these goals you are dreaming this is not going

to happen it's bad relationally it's bad

mathematically it's bad financially

you're wrong don't do it this is the

ramsy

[Music] show

[Music]

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[Music]

Ramsey

Dr John deloney Ramsey personality is my

co-host today John in quotes that's not

his real name in other words from

Louisville Kentucky not his real place

in quotes big secret call coming in so

John what's your question yes sir um

well about about two years ago I I won

one of those multi-state lottery

drawings with a group of co-workers and

uh I haven't told anyone uh besides my

wife and besides one sibling uh no one

knows and my my question for you um

after taxes it was about $22

million holy crap wow holy crap is the

of the century yeah how old are you it

was it was a lot uh I'm I'm edging up on

uh about 50 years old okay okay so and

so you haven't told anyone and I've got

some guesses but uh

why uh well the first thing I did when

when I found out that I won was was research and it said you know that you

read all those one in five people lose

their uh lottery winnings or go bankrupt

within 10 years and one of the things they all said was you tell too many people and you get too many people at your door asking for this that and the other thing asking for handouts and

expecting you to pay for everything so

my wife and I made a conscious decision just to kind of keep it under RS and

it's kind of we we've kept keeping it under wraps um we haven't even told our

two teenage children M and now I know

that sounds strange um but we just don't

want them to grow up uh to be waiters

you know waiting for us to die so they can get our money you

know that's fantastic man yeah I love it

dad's been eating little rat poison lately I probably hey I honestly uh

I I'll spend the rest of the day

imagining I'm you because this sounds just like a fun thing to think about um I don't think I would tell my teenage kids either no I'm okay with that no I

there I I I want them to go figure out

what they want to do in life and get

going somebody and then I'll and then I'll let them know yeah I'm not I'm not going to keep it from them forever but like you know our parents and stuff we haven't told any of them um we had we

had another incident about a month after

we won the lottery um incident I I don't

want to call it my wife's great uncle passed away

shortly thereafter and he didn't have any kids and he was never married and he

left most of his inheritance to my wife

and her siblings so we've been able to

use that as like our cover story for

when we help people like I bought my mom a roof I know really really nice of me

yeah but how you know when she says how

can you afford this I just say oh it's great Uncle Bob's money mom he want he wanted us to do this or you know Uncle

Bob's money at least twox now that's

great yeah and you can get you can get a

have you got a decent car I you're going to love me Dave U my

house was paid off before I won this my

wife and I really have no desire to move

good uh we had just paid cash for two

Toyotas before we uh before we won this

and we still have them we're not looking to upgrade anything because they're perfectly fine cars so okay we uh we we

are you still working are you still working I am still I am still working

that ridiculous no it's not no actually

that's why I'm there because I kind of like my job good for you I think you should keep working yeah it's going to

make you a better employee because when have you gotten some great investment advice I have yes good I have I have a

team as you can imagine okay with you

need a you need a team yeah it's not a

huge team it's just it's a group and they're they're they're doing well so far doing good job good okay I like everything you're doing um and it's not

it's not anyone else's business right that's what I hope and um

I don't think you're being like a Hermit

in a cave weird uniom weird or something

like that I think you're just being wise

because what you've what you've

discerned is that some of the people in

your life could not handle the

equation correct that is an a Very uh

good assumption on your part yeah and

and so you're doing them a favor by not putting the strain on them including

teenagers so the only thing I can get

close to is is that um by the time my

kids were teenagers we had begun

building substantial wealth we had recovered from the

bankruptcy Rachel was born so by the

time Rachel's 16 it's you know 17 years

since the bankruptcy and we had you know I was a multi-millionaire again okay we

could buy whatever car we wanted to buy we could go on whatever vacation we wanted to go on and it wouldn't affect us we had good money okay uh but the

kids had no idea and our kids had a

double problem one is their dad's in the

spotlight and everybody knows us right

because we're known in the community um

and talks about money no duh a and if

they had that and they knew that we had

millions of dollarss as a teenager I

don't think they could have processed it so they did not know they knew we were

okay with money they knew we live the

principles that we teach and we made

them live the principles that we teach

but they did not know X number of

dollars was the net worth right I only

disclosed that to them after they graduated from college and I involved

their spouses because by that time two

of them were married and so I sat down

with three of my kids and two spouses

five of them and we started unpacking

what our estate plan looks like because they're adults at that point and I told

them up front I said listen here's the deal we don't own anything at our house

we're people of Faith so God owns a

bunch of stuff he's asked us to manage

more than you know and you're getting

ready to know now and you get to decide

how you're going to react to that are you going to react and continue to be productive and generous people or are

you going to be in using your words and I'll never forget it a waiter right uh

because if you're a waiter you're not going to get access to any of this we're going to take it away from you because

God wants you to be productive he wants you to be whole he wants you to be excellent in the marketplace and he doesn't want this to destroy you he wants you to have the opportunity to serve a lot of people with this wealth

including my grandkids to come and so as

for me in my house we serve the Lord and

it's not our money it's his we're managing it for him and someday you will

take over the management but you will not become the owner if you think you're

the owner you won't get to take over the management and we that's how I unpacked it and then when I unpacked it I was

really pleased that they weren't Freaks

and they've continued to live really good adult lives and it it's not ruined

to them that their dad has you know Dad

and Mom have a bunch of money that they manage you know so uh all that so I

think you could start to build some lessons into your teenagers now so that

in five years when you have that conversation they're ready to shoulder

the weight of it what do you think John

all right yeah I think you're going live

by example and I think you have a pretty

remarkable opportunity

to take your kids out when you are

having them out to dinner and

noticing a waiter that's struggling and call the waiter over and be really kind and then show your kids let's leave a huge tip you want to do that and it

might be a hundred bucks which is nothing of of what you got in the bank

but it's it's going to be a million dollars to a teenager right and you can

slowly plant the seeds of this is what

generosity looks like and when they it's

it's kind of like those movies you get to the end and it like the six sense right and it goes and you realize oh no

I missed the whole story and now I have the whole whole story one day when you sit down and say hey I'm uh you know

that school that I paid for and you know you and your wife are about to buy house I'm going to pay for your mortgage

and here's actually what we're sitting on and here's I I like who I'm honored

by who you have become they're going to

go oh man I picked up all these lessons

from my mom and my dad they're also going to learn that money isn't what makes it isn't your identity your

identity isn't being a great dad it's a guy who still got up and went to work it's a guy who still kept the same Toyota that he'd already paid with cash before like you're doing everything so

right so healthy it's amazing Health

yeah man good for you if you were if you

were hiding this cuz you were freaking and you were weird I would call I would

I would call you out on it you're wise you're wise I think in this case you're

wise my my sister called me the other

day and said what was your big splurge and my answer was patio furniture I'm

not a big flashy guy I I I don't well I

I I think you need to increase gradually

the enjoyment of this money not to not not in the name of the

secret not in the name of exposing the

secret but you need to increase the enjoyment and you need to increase your generosity Factor systematically you

need to say all right this year we're going to spend $400,000 on this or that

create some neat memories with your kids yeah do do some things intentionally with this without just kind of roll

rolling up an extra million bucks into the budget this year you don't have to do that although you've got it but um

yeah wow congratulations brother it's a very good healthy view this is the

Ramsey

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apply thanks for joining us America we're so glad you're here Cole and Abby are with

us in the lobby of ramsy Solutions on

the debt free stage hey guys how are you

great excellent happy to be here honored to have you where do you live uh we live in Franklin Wisconsin which is about 15 minutes south of Milwaukee Milwaukee

Wisconsin I love it very welcome to Nashville thank you good to have you

guys and how much debt have you two paid

off we paid off

$15,999 I love it how long did this take

34 months good for you and your range of

income during that time we started at 134 and ended at 173 very cool what do

youall do for a living I'm an occupational therapist okay and I'm a

production manager at a cpg company okay

very cool good for you guys wow what

kind of debt was the 196,000 mostly student loans yeah we had

about 10 in credit cards about 23 in car

debt and the rest of it almost

$159,000 in student loan debt

wow how ironic that this Sunday student

loan payments start back but not for you

no wayoo we know a lot of people that

didn't pay any during the forbearance I

think I can count on one hand including us the number of people that continued to pay and hammered out yeah we do too

why did you do that because I I we

sitting around here obviously we're we're talking shop it's like just math

get people to do what you did why did you do it why did you do it all your friends didn't do it the government said we got you and you knew they didn't like why did y'all keep paying yeah we're uh in our 30s we're old enough to know uh you can't wait on the government uh but

the other thing is that we wanted to set

ourselves up for our future right someone bought us Financial Peace University for our wedding and we sat down and talked about our wise um our

baby girl we have now two months 3 years ago when we started you know she wasn't in the picture but we knew one day she would and we didn't want to try to be

Buy house and buying cars with cash and

funding her College while having the student loan debt hang over our head and

me the nerd I did the math with the interest before the forbearance it would have been $1,000 a month for 21 years

for us to pay off the student loan debt and that's not something either of us wanted to sign up for

wow so how long y'all been married three

years this past June okay so you've been doing this the whole time you've been married yeah we got married in June and

then because of Co we had like our reception in September so it was in that

uh September reception we' already been married for 4 months when we got Financial Peace University okay so somebody gave you that as a gift for your wedding Y and then you you went to

the class yeah it was virtual right yeah

but yes we did the class and um we I've

been listening to you for years before that and we were davish and this is how dumb I was Dave I thought that's a really good plan for other people yeah

not for us and even going into the class

we thought well maybe we'll do it maybe

we won't after the first lesson or two

we were all in we figured if we're going to do it we got to do it all the way 34

months later here we are we're on to three we're down with three now we're on to 3B so we're excited for what's next even taking it virtually it sucked you into the Vortex oh yes it did I love it

well we're honored man congratulations you guys what did your friends say when you told them you're paying on your loans and they they roll their eyes at you yeah they did they give it to you pretty good oh yeah um why would you do

that the same thing with the credit cards um what about the miles what about

the points um you can use that money for other things we just I don't know we

were just together in it the whole way and that was a surprising piece actually is how many people gave us schlack for

it um for having this be our plan so

that did that give you energy like I'll show you yeah I I heard so many times

people say oh me and my wife are dead free well except for our cars you'll always have a car payment and we looked at them and said then you're not debt free uh we've heard you'll always have a

student loan and I look at him and say you will always have a student loan we will not always have a student loan uh so it's very motivating yeah and now you get to do Toby Keith How You Like Me Now

that's right that's right I like it yeah

you should throw a party on October 1st just aay like I'll I'll get everybody

dinner cuz I know it's going to be a hard hard night for my friend that's right we got no we got no payment so we

can afford we're having a celebration you guys are having a funeral guys that

uh we're hating on you that's right I

love it yeah just rub a little salt in the wound that'd be great good for you guys man I'm so proud of you thank you so who was cheering you on who were your

cheerleaders a lot of our family obviously my mother's side of the family was the one who gifted us FPU so they

were huge in that um some of our friends

actually introduced us to you as well

and kind of kept along with us on the journey that's cool yeah okay um yeah

that's about it our good friends uh Britney and Sam I want to give them a shout out because before we did this we'd always go out on the town going out to eat spending lots of money we told them hey we're going to do this FPU thing so we're not going out to eat anymore and they said that's great you guys just come on over here we'll grill out we'll do things at the house that are free they were very very supportive

like that that's a cool cool that's a cool group of friends right there yeah

and actually you have a better time doing that than you do going to R oh yes yeah we had more yeah more fun yeah yeah

way to go guys so proud of y'all well

well done well done now what do you tell

people the key to getting out of debt you pay off

$196,000 in 34 months it's not a theory

you freaking did it m anyone can do it

on paper right it's a lot harder to do in reality yeah um I always say the hardest part is starting the first two three months when you're learning to budget and at the end of the month you have this money it's it stinks to send it off to Navy in or Toyota financial or

whoever but for us after those first 2 3

4 months it became such a routine and such a habit it honestly went by really

quick just because we were like a well-oiled machine once we got in the monthly routine of budgeting and paying off it became exciting actually how much money are we going to pay off how much how much are we going to be able to fill in on our de turn into a game it's a

mental game like where where else can we cut where else can we increase income

yeah yeah and every month we're like yeah we're 150 bucks under budget let's

go like it's not that much but it's so exciting um throw it at it throw y are

almost too unified did yall ever have a fight we don't fight about money no no

no this um we were on the same page pretty much before FPU but this really solidified not just money but just all

aspects of our marriage I think yeah

what was the hardest

part I think getting started like Cole

said that is hard um but I also was

surprised I think I was disappointed by people's reactions when we would tell them that we were doing this saying no telling each other no for things was hard as well but just the reactions that

we would get this was such like an exciting thing for us to start on and so

many people were doubtful or like that's

not going to last yeah um so that was

kind of hard to kind of hear that from people well you kind of figure out who your friends are yes you know it's like okay you are

eore oh it's bad it's so bad you're

never going to make it you're always going to have a car oh now I know who e or is I always wondered who he is yeah

that's it so yeah good for you guys very

very well done hey we've got the live and give bundle for you that's the box

that has all the goodies in it for you to give away and live baby steps

Millionaire's book which is your next step for sure The Total Money Makeover

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away and all of that's our gift to you to say thanks for coming down all right

are we putting uh little baby in she's

ch right now but we can no you don't

have to I just ask that's that's a sacred moment let it let it ride let it ride if she if she's chill I'm good I

don't care I just didn't want you to I don't want to lose you the opportunity oh here she comes we'll just we'll leave her in her little seat here all right that's perfect yeah what's her name Presley Presley all right Presley you

have no idea that your parents are heroes they have changed your family tree little girl yeah that's how old

Rachel was when I F bankruptcy so you

guys you guys are in a great place I'm so proud of y'all congratulations thank you very good all right Cole and Abby

Presley hold your little ears all right

196,000 paid off in 34 months making 134

to 173 count it down let's hear a

debt-free Scream 3 2 1 we're dead

free

yeah that's how that's

done ah I don't even think Presley woke

up that's pretty good I mean I think

she's used to her dad being that intense around the house so it's all right it's all good he's yelling at football too

that's exactly right he's more of a spreadsheet Yeller but it's cool he still y loves works it works man I'll tell you

what if the first 34 months of your marriage you can learn to uh align

yourselves together on goals you set

yourselves up to fight any battle to win

any game that you run into after that

don't you well it reminds us of that call we took earlier this is what we were talking about this is exactly talking about you decide where you're going getting there becomes just a it's

a totally different trajectory yep you're not riding side by side you're riding in the same car going to the same place building the same life together

this is the ramsy [Music]

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budget [Music]

Dr John delone Ramsey personality number

one bestselling author and host of the Dr John delone show is my co-host today

Travis is with us in Philadelphia hi

Travis welcome to the Ramsey Show

hello Dave how you doing better than I

deserve what's up uh Dave I've been praying and this is

actually blessing speaking to you um

what's going on in my life around that Dave is that me and my wife we at a Crossroads we have two small children

we've been trying to do the baby steps for almost eight months now it's it's

not working we're not we're not getting past baby step one it's always some kind

of emergency things are happening that

and we're just not getting there um but

what we the crosss we're at right now is that um I did get a we have a lot of

debt you have about $40,000 in auto

loans um about 10,000 student debt

student loan debt and 20,000 like credit

cards I have an offer to get a new job

that's gonna pay I pay I make about 37,000 now I got a job offer about like

54,000 it's not the best job in the

world just working a correctional offic so it's something I'm not too fond of but I'll do it uh for the money to get

out of debt but also we have a lot of

equity in our home uh our home is worth

about maybe upwards about 380,000 we

have about 230,000 left on the mortgage

and we can sell and we can get that

Equity wae you owe you owe 230 and it's

worth 280 380 no uh 38080 380 oh okay

yeah about 380 uh the real estate agent say we should go uh probably should price it at like 410 because it's things

are selling pretty fast in my area so so

you've got $150,000 you might have come

into if you did that if we did that

correct and where would you

live I live in Pennsylvania now we

moveed to I have a job offer in November

for the city of Dallas um for the police

department in Dallas and um that's

that's where we moved to we moved to Dallas we have a have a good friend of mine that lives out there he's been

working out there for about a year now and he's been trying to get me to come out there yeah and so we can move to you have a solid written job offer not a

vague promise from a friend no I um I

have a solid written job offer in November I will start the academy for the police department out there I got it

and um okay so you were planning on

moving

anyway why would you ask me if you

should sell your house of course you're

going to sell your house you're moving to Dallas right but the reason why I I say

that because um like I said I have two small children I'm just at a crossroad I don't know if that's the best you know I

don't know how safe Dallas is I I have a

friend he said is is pretty good but you

know how safe Dallas is compared to

Philadelphia well I'm not I'm not actually in Philly I'm about 90 minutes away from it uh in the Pocono let me say it this way my dad was a homicide detective A Beat cop and then a homicide

detective for uh almost two decades in

Houston and he raised me and my two

siblings and I wouldn't trade my

childhood for anything okay okay if you continue to

always look over the edge what if what

if what if what if in a weird way you're

going to create those scenarios in your

life right what would you pay what would

you be paid if you went to

Dallas um started salary for off out

there about 60 66,000 that's the solid

offer they gave you in writing correct and then you get out of

the academy and then what does it go

to um that that I don't know but I know

going into the academy about 66 okay

okay so you're almost going to double your income you're going to sell your house move to Dallas and be debt free and you've got no state income tax yeah

this is kind of a no-brainer Travis

you'll have no debt you need to put the house on the market and go to Dallas and you rent for a year in Dallas figure out what's the best place for schools and

for that's going to fit your family's lifestyle and what y'all are comfortable with and then you're going to put an off front house

yeah you're right it makes sense I was

just afraid of you know just moving to a bigger city uh the crime the the you

know just just everything just wouldn't

be the best hey let me tell you something turn the news off you literally have a friend on the

ground who lives there and works there and he says I love my friend I love you enough you should come join me and you're like uh I don't know because I watch new your friend wouldn't tell you come down here and get your children killed yeah you're right you're right okay so

move to Dallas Dallas is not a crime

ridden city it has crime every city has

crime but it's not crime ridden it's not

infested or something I don't this is an

IL an ill and you want to be a cop I was

going to say I mean this is kind of like part of part of your there's a little crime you wouldn't need a job part part

of the academy is going to be pushing

real hard to see risk ahead and go

anyway because that's what that's what police officers do when the rest of us are running they go in and so you're

going to have to you're going to have to wash that part out of you man because this is the job the the last thing I

want you to do though is when you clean

all this up you you guys have to get on a budget and you have to quit freaking spending money you don't have to buy

cars you can't afford in the future and

on these stupid butt credit cards so you

all have not been living on less than

you make you bought cars you couldn't afford you bought other crap you couldn't afford that's how these credit cards got there so when you clean all this up if you make 66 and you go to

spending 75 and you go upgrade your

dadgum cars and go back in debt well

then I'm going to come kick your butt all right no you're not doing that all

right you're going to live on less than you make you're going to clean this m mess up this is your one time good time

reset you don't get to do these resets

very often yes yes so take advantage of

it dude jump online and get every dollar

the budgeting app you and your wife start budgeting get the house on the market find go to ramsy Solutions and.com and get get one of the real estate agents that are Ramsey trusted and get your house on the market dad gum

man it's October you got to move in a month get your button gear let's go

let's go let's go game on game on let's

you house ought to be on the market this weekend you need to you need to go it's

time and you're going to be one of those guys that's like well I need to clean it I need to make sure that listen loading up the truck and heading to Beverly baby let's go sell the house sell the house

we're going let's go the gutters are how the gutters are sell the house that's it

you know get out there and clean it up this weekend get those kids and gear trim the bushes mulch them let's go game

on game on I'm hearing this more and

more I hear this on my show with some regularity and I think it's important to

Just note there's so many places to get

information these days that it does

overwhelm the Mind well and here's the

problem half of what is on the Internet

it's garbage is not even true 75% it's

not real it's not true I pulled up a website yesterday with Ken and is on the a mhm uh that's got Dave Ramsey's exotic

car collection and my picture and all of

the cars that I own only I don't own any

of them they're fabulous cars I wished I

did and I own a few nice cars it' been

cool if he'd put them on there but no

he's got all this wonderful vehicles on there that I don't own that website does

not exist for me daude I I'm just like

Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is true I mean come on you know

oh my gosh people yeah you just got you got to quit just feeding garbage into your brain and then cuz you know well I

read an article that said John deloney

or Dave Ramsey was this or that well you

can write an article on anything it doesn't make it true people just make up

crap well that's why you know cuz they're mad or their feelings are hurt

why it's important to have incredible trustworthy men and women in your life

that you can call and say hey is this a good deal and like man you're going to love this job it's going to be great for you and your family move on down here yeah then that what that I I don't know

of a better endorsement that guy doing

that for Travis is a thousand out of a

thousand Travis reading about something

on the internet right is a thousand out of a thousand the other direction you know there there's crime

in Dallas well no of course there did that I mean you know it's everywhere but

um at least in Dallas there's no anyway

yeah it's there's yeah do it Texas yeah

do it make Texas great again yeah let's

go game on there's so many places I could go

with that in a minute and a half and I'm not going to all right open phones here

atle 8825 5225 I should increase the

hate level around here I don't I don't do that I think we're I think we are good you think we got think the hate level is high enough I think it is as high as it needs to be okay I think we

should increase the love okay let's

increase the love okay well that that's

harder it is harder it is

harder sell your house man let's go d

Travis get that house on the market get moved man send us a photo of you in your uniform when you get out of the academy we'll be rooting for you yeah you're on our team man we love you keep it up get

after it get after it get after it that

puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the

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hey it's Dr John deloney if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the ramsy way just go to Ramsey solutions.com today to sign up for our

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thanks for joining us America we're glad you're here open phones at 88255 225 Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author and host of the Dr John deloney

show on the Ramsey networks is my

co-host today his new build new life

building a non New Life his new book

building a non-anxious life comes out in

under one week this coming Tuesday if

you want to get a great deal on it it's only $20 right now and it includes on

pre-sale if you do it before Tuesday $75

worth of extra goodies so go check it

out the book will help you work through

and uh deal with properly the preparation so when anxiety comes with

the six daily choices you've made not if

but when it comes you will know how to deal with it uh so pick it up at ramsy

solutions.com get started Lynn is H

gonna start this hour off in Philadelphia hi Lynn welcome to the Ramsey Show hey guys it's such an honor to

speak to you thanks for taking my call

sure what's up uh I actually have a

two-part question um not sure if I can

get to both of them but my first

question um is really starting to

something's really starting to get to me it's affecting my family and my marriage

um my husband is taking

responsibility um for his parents my

in-laws finances he's has created them a budget

he's paying their bills for them he's um

going as far as controlling their

expenses uh I'm not sure this is healthy

and it's causing friction is he using

their money or your money he's using

their money okay so it's not costing you

anything how old are they how old are

they um they are in their late 70s okay

and why is this not healthy do they need

help um let's just say that them doing

it on their own they haven't been doing

very well themselves MH um and I think

my husband is just afraid of you know

them overspending

and yeah but you you said you said this

is not healthy and it's driving you crazy so why is it not healthy crazy why

is it not healthy and why is it driving you crazy I don't think it's healthy

because he's taking over and doing it

himself um we don't agree with it so

he's causing friction with

us um and it's not that they're not able

to do it it's kind of like he wants to

do it for them because he thinks he'll

do it better could it be that he knows

for 79 years I've watched my parents

fail at this and they're getting really close to falling off a financial cliff

that as my as their son I'm going to

feel some sort of obligation to help out with and I can I can stop them from driving off the edge is it that it is uh

100 100% that which I'm okay with but

he's kind of gone a little too far not just giving

them advice but just basically there's

something else deeper why don't you do you not like them I love them they are my second

parents I lost my parents at a young age

when we just uh we've been married for 25 years so they've become my second

parents um so what's what's the thorn in

your side on this you know I think it's

that I I think you know partly it's that

they can't do it themselves okay so are

you mad at them or him for

that I think I'm mad at them okay so

let's make sure the anger in the right direction all right

and and

I probably part of me is just kind of

bombed that the time that we should be

spending together on our own finances is

kind of going toward them all right that's a totally different

conversation one of those conversations

gets wrapped up and you're and you are pressing your husband up against a wall saying it's me or them and he's looking

and saying I love you both I dedicated

my life to you I said I do to you you're my wife and I'm watching my parents sliding off the edge the real question you're asking is

I'm really frustrated that two grown

people who I love haven't and won't and

can't seem to figure out how to take care of their money and my husband is

the kind of man who steps in that Gap

but I don't want that to come at the expense of our marriage and our relationship and our time together planning for our future and so husband

can we spend time together focusing on our finances that's separate then you

shouldn't be doing that with them you see what I'm saying I do one of those

makes him have to wall up and pick and

the other says is makes calls is a

challenge are you going to be are you going to be um my partner in this deal

and are you going to continue to dream with me on what our house looks like so

you voiced to him that you're

frustrated I have he knows I'm he knows

I'm not a fan of the whole situation okay so I let me tell you what I think I heard you say and if I was wrong tell me

okay okay I think I heard you say I'm

frustrated because these two grown-ups

won't be grown-ups I love them but I

hate irresponsibility and I hate the way that

they are just so lame when they don't

have to be and that aggravates me and

I'm also aggravated because you're taking time away from us that I really

need to have some things done over here on our finances before you go over

there uh you pretty much nailed it okay

why don't you say that back to him that

way I I think that's a really good idea

and can I throw one twist in there that's going to be hard for you to say

sure

can you say I am proud that you're the

kind of man that um sees his mom and dad in

need and however frustrating it is you're willing to step in that Gap yes that's super important I do

agree you are proud of his character you just you you just hate it that they're being so lame and I gotta tell you I

kind of agree with you yeah it's super

frustrating I'm aggravated at both of them they're perfectly able-bodied and able-minded to do this and they're just too trifling to do it right you're yeah

yeah agates that aggravates people that

are responsible right and you know that

that's I I agree with your aggravation

um I just don't think that uh your aggravation is going to fix

it yeah because you're not you're being

aggravated is not going to make them suddenly responsible correct and so they're

either going to run in the ditch as John said or over the edge as John said um or

your husband's probably going to do what he's doing because you know they may

have seven years they might have 10 and

um you know and they're either going to

be a burden to you all financially cuz

they completely wreck the rest of their

lives here or your husband's going to do

this cuz they the chances of these people changing their habits the old dog new tricks at this stage probably pretty low is that fair yes and can he go too

far can he say hey I'm going to help y'all not fall off the edge and suddenly become their mommy and daddy all in one

yes yeah and it's okay to call call that

out call them out on that yeah but yeah

sounds like you got a good man stuck in a weird situation and it's frustrating frustrating let's work towards the solution you have a valid frustration

with their irresponsibility but not a good

solution he's got a better solution this

is the Ramsey [Music]

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Dr John delone Ramsey personality my

co-host today open phones atle

88255 225 Lauren is in Chicago hey

Lauren welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi thank you for all the work you

guys do for um American people I um have

been listening for a couple months um to

a lot of the different shows and my husband and I I'm learning a a

little and we are okay we've made um you

know some good decisions and some bad decisions based on the ramcy way but

right now we're looking at wanting to

pay our house off we don't have any other debt and how do people do that

like is it okay to just set aside the

money and then pay it off in one lump

sum or what is what's the ramsy weers or

recommendation or a book no it do take a

book it's just early and often every

month send as much towards the house

payment as you can

send okay and what happens is it lowers

your balance so the next month more of

your regular payment will go towards

principal than it than it would have if

you hadn't let's say you sent $110,000

okay well you no longer have to pay interest on that $10,000 so the in the

monthly interest on that $10,000 less will be low on the balance

will be lower than uh than it was by

$10,000 you follow

me I do I I understand that um I guess

like my husband and I and I agree with it completely that's what I've learned

and understand however my husband's more

comfortable with having a um lump suum

available just in case um anything

happens with the house any emergency

yeah before you start paying your house do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of

expenses um we have an emergency we have

about 160,000 um saved and then we have in

okay your husband's theory is ludicrous

what do you what is he expecting kind what kind of what do you think is GNA happen Armageddon your cash won't be good yes

there will not be ATMs during

Armageddon this is so funny thank you

for the laugh yeah that's no no no what

what do you owe on your

home uh we just I'm so grateful to God

we uh we we lived in like a thousand fo

how much you ow your home oh six uh 633

I'm sorry 633 we just what I would do if

I woke up in your shoes is I would take

three to six months of expenses given that your husband likes to have a little bit more let's say six months of what's

your household income 250 okay all right so let's be super

generous okay set 100,000 aside

that's more than you need that's more than 6 months okay and call that your

emergency fund it's a ridiculous emergency fund it's set 100,000 side

everything above 100,000 is cray cray it

needs to be going on the house it's just there you're not going

to have $100,000

emergencies can I ask another dumb

question no not dumb these AR dumb

questions these are great questions do you ever recommend if like you have

Investments do you ever recommend taking those out and putting it towards the house always no always unless they're in

re unless they're in retirement

account okay you want to know why single

stock sell them you want to know

why why because when we studied the

largest study of millionaires ever done in North America over 10,000 of them we

never found them saying we invested

instead of paying off our home and

that's how we became millionaires none

of them say that

okay almost all of them followed the

model of a steady reasonable amount of

investing like in their retirement

accounts then paid off the home and then

increased their investing when the home

was paid off and so the typical person

with say a million5 net worth their

first $1.5 million of net worth had A5

or $600,000 paid for home and about a

million dollar in their 401K but the number of them that said oh

we never pay off our house instead we

invested more and more and more and kept

the house debt was almost zero it was

less than 10% thank you that's helpful okay so the

data says that the best and the fastest

way to build wealth is get the house paid off while steadily investing about

15% of your income above an emergency

fund of 3 to six months of expenses so

if you guys making 250 have squirel over

in an investment a half million dollars

I'm going to tell you get this house paid off next 12 months and take that

money in there now not taking out 401K

money but I'm talking about you've just

got a you know you've got a brokerage account of some kind over here with a half million dollar sitting in it take that and the 60 above the 100 and throw

it at the thing let's get this house paid off CU I got to tell you if I ever

get your husband to pay off his house he

will think he's a genius and he'll never

ever ever go back back in dead on that

house well and I want to make sure we

point we we touch on this this he's

solving for safety and right now safety

for him is having a bunch of cash yep

and and non-retirement investment that's

right and he's hedging his safety

against all these other things and he's got this big elephant sitting in his living room and you We've joked about

this off air before no one has ever

called the show and said man I'm really

mad at y'all cuz I paid my house off 6

months later Dave Ramsey told me to pay my house on I wish I had my mortgage back I love my mortgage you could you

say it all time you could always go take out a mortgage six months from now if you don't like it right if you don't like having a paid for house but you think you're you think you're solving for safety with all these extracurricular activities try sleeping

in a house that you owe nobody anything

for that's a level of safety that you

didn't know your body could feel until you go do it yeah I'm telling you when when you have let's just talk about

safety okay when we have a fouchy quarantine and the whole freaking Place shuts down

and your house is paid for it feels a

whole lot different inside your physical

body than having the same amount of your

mortgage in a mutual fund because there's a part of your brain that's been there for eternity that says you're

going to lose your house your kids are going to be on the street yeah 100% of foreclosures happen on a house with a mortgage that's right versus being real

frustrated right being annoyed and

frustrated that's different than I can't

breathe right yeah I mean I had uh we

had business stress we had relational

stress uh because of disagreements but

David Sharon Ro is going to be okay over

the covid you know we found out who our friends were who who were all worried

about little CO's jumping on people and all the stuff we de we dealt with all that stuff uh but we didn't

deal during the fouchy quarantine with

the threat of foreclosure right not in

there and so when you're solving for safety that was a good phrase I like that phrase you know you you probably

need to really correctly Define safety

right and get the elephant out of your dead gum living room right which is the living room by the way yeah

ironically it it's and the way we said

it before we had John with two phds to

help us understand it was if your house

is paid for take your shoes off walk through the backyard the grass feels

different you breathe different and um

you work you won't work at a toxic Place

anymore more because you have to you're

not stuck anymore folks and so the

solving for this is you know when I

first started teaching this stuff I thought well if you got rid of a house payment you invested a house payment you can turn that money into a million dollars pretty quick and that's the math part the financial part but there's an

emotional part A Spiritual part A relational part a medical health a

mental health part I you know someday it

it'll be done I I don't know that I'll ever get around to doing it but a study

of the um medical condition and the life

quality of life and longevity of Life of

people who are debt free versus those that aren't there're they're quietly starting to to leak out into the world where people are doing mental health and emotional health and debt and starting to use the coral of data it's it's it's

pretty frightening yeah and I've talked to some doctoral students who interested in doing their dissertations on student

loans and people with debt versus the

mental health of those who don't know anybody anything yeah and if you think about this think about think all of us um um have had the moment in our career

when we think oh man I got to go have a hard conversation with my boss I may not survive this one imagine your wife or

your husband can put your face in their

hands and look at you and say hey we're going to be okay we got plenty of money go tell the truth we plent of money we got no house payment go tell the truth go be you and we don't have any house

payments man like that's a different conversation here we go this is the

Ramsey

Show

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[Applause] Dr John deloney Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Spencer and Jordan are

with us in the Ramsey Solutions

headquarters Lobby on the debt free

stage hey guys how are you hey pretty

good welcome where do youall live terod

Indiana just I love it very good good to

have you all right how much debt have you two paid we paid off $150,000 we sold our house wow wow how

long did all this take uh well selling

the house took a couple months but uh we lived in the house 3 and 1/2 years and we downsized from 3,000 ft to about

1,200 with family of so

w but hey no mortgage payment so it's uh

worth it hardcore Wow way to sure you

all renting now no we bought it with

cash what we made from our other house so yep oh so you bought a house so you

don't have a mortgage no morgage debt free debt free you sold the house bought

another house with the equity no mortgage of any kind how old are you to

I am 31 32 but in order to do this you

moved into a tiny little place yes sir

and I no regrets I it

okay but and you don't have to be there forever it's a step yes it's a step and

and you're 32 years old and what's this

house worth that you're living in uh 130

135 range I'd say we we actually just

cash flow to remodel on it too so um

okay so so it's it's pretty nice okay

and we can live there for a few years and then move up easy easy easy and uh

so okay again so this whole experien has

really did gone down pretty quick right

yes sir but uh we actually uh grew up in

and and you know Ramsay um uh

foundations right we we have family members who have followed the um bab

steps and passed that on to us um Jordan

actually has a great story with the ttal Money Makeover yeah when I was a junior

in high school my parents saw that I was

not great with money and they were like we'll pay you $20 to read The Total

Money Makeover so great

$20 um it did not stick until I got

married so not a great but no no it was spent probably the next

day but I inherited $13 when we got

married yep pardon that $20 and then uh

yeah big shout out to my mom who's uh followed Dave Ramsey for a long time in those steps and uh all the way through college um we were able to to kind of

cash flow so this this all this stuff was around in your childhood you're kind of financial peace babies in a sense yes

sir okay all right now but once you

decided okay we got this big house we could sell it we could buy another house you did all that within a matter of months yep so really like four months or

something to be de free once you make the call right yep yes sir you have

other debt to pay off too no we paid off

my student loans um when was it a few

years ago M and uh we had a two and a

half threee gap of no loans no no being

debt free and then we bought the house

29 sold it um earlier this spring so so

what lit y'all up what what said like hey let's leave this big nice house where everyone's got their own bathroom and room and let's get out of this mess

yeah you know we just it was a it was it

was a great it was a big beautiful house

and we just were like you know what we

want to change and we knew that that wasn't our forever home um so we were

like why are we paying this big mortgage when we could downsize be completely debt free and then save for what will be

our forever home mhm way to go you guys

very cool what's your household income

right now it's around 110 what do you you all do for a living I stay home and

homeschool our three kids M and I'm

currently in the International Guard working in it and then my civilian jobs

in it as well so wow good for you good

career y are both awesome yeah yeah way to go guys you're Heroes okay congratulations um to all of the young

parents out there who say there's no possible way you could have three beautiful rambunctious little ones uh what is the

oldest one what six seven he's nine nine

okay so you got nine and seven and five

y yes sir you can't possibly have a

family of five in a 12200 foot house

it's awesome how do you make it work bonding no it's a it's a lot of bonding

yeah the boys share bedroom and Remy our

daughter she has her own room and honestly it's probably been a lot harder

for them than it has for us it's a lot less cleaning a lot less maintaining for

us and I think they're getting used to it a lot of times Outdoors but we haven't uh gone through winter yet so

we'll see how cut it is January February

range I had one sibling I grew up in a 1,000 ft home yep so um and um yeah wow

yeah it's amazing when you look I went over there and visited it not long ago it kind of shrunk yeah that's so it's

like going back to your Elementary School at shrunk you know yes yes but I

I think you guys are going to be great I'm so proud of y'all yeah it's not a

longterm play really it's a short-term play it's a it's a sacrifice and we knew

it when we when we bought the house and

we actually um you you think about 1,000 bucks a month going to the bank and it's like

you what could we be doing with this and

knowing that we were going to um buy a a

forever home from a family member um in

the future um we can be saving that and

you know treat this house as a rental for the kids as they go through school

yeah that' be great but no it's a and

with the homeschool stuff so in your all's case you made this with one Fell Swoop you grew up with some of these things around you what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is cuz your story is different um for me it

would just be the budgeting was the hardest part for us I think was just

sitting down and making a budget and I feel like it's gotten even harder now

that we are debt free is sitting down and still maintaining that budget but I

think that that's what I tell people is get on the same page sit down write a

budget do what's best for your family

yeah the discipline and the um the

reminder that it's God's money right be a good Steward of it and the lesson for

the kids and all the way going through the house selling and the house buying

process with them by our sides um a lot

of um OPP well you took a step back so I

I think looking at you from the outside looking in I think your secret was contentment yeah you're willing to be

content with that as a step uh I'm going

to live like no one else so later I can live and give like no one else being counter cultural and knowing that it's

um just it's God's will doing it so we

often tell people don't sell your house to get out of debt cuz you don't you don't go through you don't learn the lessons y'all y'all were debt free for 3 years before you sat down and said let's go do something radical yep yeah very

well done good job you guys very cool

all right bring the kiddos up let's hear their names and ages have they been

practicing any debt-free screams little bit just since we've been here this is Grayson he is nine milin who's seven and

Remington who is five go Remington all

right I think Remington's in charge John

anytime ofan family has their kids come up and they all just stand in a straight line and they're respectful and kind

that's great it's very cool makes me want to be better at being a

parent I love it very good you guys hey

we've got The Total Money Makeover book for you the baby steps millionaires book

that's the next chapter in your story for you and the Financial Peace University membership you can live some of that you can give some of that thanks for coming down here from terot and sharing your inspiring story and your beautiful family you guys are amazing way to go Heroes you're Heroes you took

control those little babies right there their whole lives are changed cuz their mom and dad are grown-ups very well done

Spencer Jordan Grayson milin and Remy I

got to love it from terao 150,000 paid

off in about four months sold their home moved into a smaller one so they added all paid off making 110 count it down

let's hear a debt free scream three two

1 we de

free [Applause] yeah wow

wow fabulous

fabulous in 1963 the average family in

America had a 1,000 square ft one level

home one car that was the average family in

America today the average family in

America has 2.5 cars and 2900 Square ft

you me tell you something wild about that besides just the cost um one of my

PL plans to go down a nerd rabbit hole

is there's some quiet conversations

about families over the last you know

centuries and thousands of years have grown up together you could hear each other breathe you could see each other and that one of the causes of anxiety

may be that everybody from you get into

the bassinet you get your own room and you're on the other side of the house you're on the other side of the house you're upstairs someone's downstairs and you're all on screens everybody's alone and everybody's on screens and there's something about bringing the family back together that's that's kind sounds kind of neat I don't know the data on it kind of regulates everything but it's interesting it's interesting thought regulates their bodies overnight we stuck everybody in their own room on the

other side of the house and I don't know that we're designed for that interesting thing to think about this is the ramsy

[Laughter]

show

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Dr John deloney Ramsey personality open

phones a triple

88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your money Joe Is With Us

in Springfield Hey Joe welcome to the Ramsey Show Dave thank you for taking my call

sure what's up I've been listen to you

often on last couple years it hasn't a lot of things haven't soaked in but the other day you said that nobody should own a new truck truck unless they have a net worth of a million and they're debt

free well I bought a new one earlier

this year and so my question number one is should I sell that truck and downgrade get something a little bit more economical so that I can pay it

off how much do you

ow uh 43 no 42 and some change so 43 what's

your household income 220 210 and you don't have any

money no I have uh I have about 40 in

the bank right

now how long you been making that kind

of

money years you're making good money why

do you not have any

well my wife kind of lives YOLO I kind

of live like hey we might live to be 500

and it's just it's been 15 years of just

kind of we've sat down and we' put budgets together and it just it uh it

doesn't stick on one end and it does on

one and I've just kind of learned to

compromise to keep the marriage happy

and uh but the marriage isn't happy man

I can hear it on you it's frustrating I mean I love her

to death wouldn't trade her for nothing but it's frustrating you know when you have a divided house um you know like I

hate Christmas I hate it um you know we spend $44,000 every

year in Christmas and it's to people and

friends and and every year we are about

it and it just gets me where I just hate Christmas you know because I know we're

just going to blow a bunch of money and we shouldn't and we don't have to you

know you you move on you know you can

either dwell on it or you can just move on and and then and then you borrowed 40,000 on a truck

yeah yes well I I'm a sales guy so I

have to have a truck that's less than three years old and so many miles I get paid 850 a month for my truck allowance

and whether you have a car payment or

not that's right and that's where I

would rather tuck to 850 and throw it on the house we're in a great situation on

the house house is worth about six six

and a quarter we're down to about 270 on

it okay um Joe Joe the the truck the

truck needs to be paid off or it needs to be sold but it's 10% of your

problem okay the problem that's

screaming at me in this conversation is

you make way too much money to be this

broke I agree and you guys have really

got to sit down and address that you're

just you're you're just a quarter no you

haven't you because it's not fixed what do you but what do you do well I think

you need if you can't if you and your wife can't sit down and dream about a future that you're willing to control yourselves for CU you're not controlling

yourselves you're you have no self-control in your household and if

you the two of you can't find a house a

dream in in high definition that the two

of you can agree to that is worth

working towards together and worth not

spending everything we make to cause it to happen then you do need to sit down

with a marriage counselor if that's the

case often High performing High earning folks

sit down and have this conversation as a math problem honey we make this much

money we got to make a

budget no I have one I have an Excel

sheet I can show you I know you

do here's what I'm telling you there's a

different conversation when you sit down with your wife and you hold her hands and you say honey I can't breathe

I'm so scared we make way too much money

I'm working so

hard and I feel like you and I are fulling pulling further and further and

further apart and I love you too much to

be frustrated at you all the time because I know that's hard to live with

and I love you too much for us to

pretend that we're all joyful and happy

once a year at Christmas and we try to

throw money at our friends and family

instead of being a warm safe place for them to come land would you build something different with me that's a different conversation then honey look at my spreadsheet look at this if you just would do this then

we could get out of this crap one of

those she's going to go to her defense and that defense is probably way older

than you and that's probably been there since she was a little kid and then you go to your defense because she starts bombing you back and it's different when

you take ownership and say I want my wife and I want a family that um I want

to unific a unified front here I want a

unified vision of what we're going to do and I'm scared to death I'm going to lose you the iron is is that you think

by acquiescing you're creating peace and

you're not that's the irony the fire is

burning in the basement and it is hot

it's coals yeah and because this it's

eating you up and she can feel that on

you and then she goes about solving that

feeling with the way that her body's been solving those feelings for her whole life spending spending and trying

to make people feel good about themselves and showing people how great she's doing and that's different than y'all two building a life together yeah yeah

and if you guys can't sit down work that through and start to say we need to develop a new vision for our future a

different plan other than just spinning

our Wheels feeling like a rat in a wheel I'm scared I can't do this this is

killing me I cannot live in a situation

where I make a quar million dollars a year and we have nothing that is just

absurd to me my brain can't do it anymore my mind can't do it my psyche my

spirit can't do it anymore so we've got

to develop a plan for the future that we're both willing to work towards and I

want to do that with you let's start fresh fresh a reset not we've got to get

on a budget some but that will lead you

by the way to a budget and it's not a spreadsheet budget it's an every dollar budget but it'll lead you to the two of

you working together to implement the

plan that you have agreed to together

that both of you had a vote in I love

starting those conversations with I'm sorry I'm sorry I've tried to control

you the way I know to control a problem I've tried to solve you I've tried to

fix you I'm sorry let me tell you the

truth I'm scared to death and there's a different there's a different approach there someone can enter into your space

that way instead of uh having to swing

back at you it's tough hope that works

for you brother and then pay that truck off in the next 20 minutes um or couple

months and or sell it one of the two

that's um because it's you know you went

and bought a truck while she went and bought Christmas I think you yeah you showed her I think you spent more so um

there you go and the 850 is coming in

whether you have a truck payment or not so that doesn't justify it our question

of the day is sponsored by neighborly

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find Home Service Experts including Mr

Appliance in your area today's question

comes from Jane in Florida I pay the

bills for my elderly father he has a bad

habit of going to the ATM to withdraw money several times a week A lot of times it leaves me with a balance too low to pay his bills I've had numerous

talks threatened to stop helping etc etc

he apolog apologizes and Promises to do

better then in a few weeks he's right back to the same situation I don't want to be disrespectful to him but is it really it's really stressing me out what do you recommend I do I'm not going to

help you with your bills anymore unless you give me your ATM card yeah I'm

unable to help anymore unless you give me your ATM card I can't I can't participate yeah you you you're you're

making this too hard you're sabotaging

everything I'm trying to do to help you I'm trying to love you and you're clearly you're telling me very clearly you don't want my love and support and help yeah so if you want to give me the ATM card I'll keep doing it if you don't

then I won't yeah it's fine I still love you but I'm not going to I'm not going to spend all of my time resenting how

you're living your life and then you

come to me asking for help I don't want to resent you you're my dad I want to love you so I'm either going to turn this over to you or you're going to hand me your ATM card yeah that's easy yeah I

can fix that and it's not a flex and it's not it's not showing your muscles it's just saying hey I'm choosing to not do this anymore I can't yeah this is this is an absurd dog chasing its tail

keep pulling you out of the pool and you just keep jumping in if you want to stay in there man it's tough I keep getting

you out of the road and you keep running back out there yeah it's tough yeah it's

um it's well it's um it's frustrating

because a it's someone you love and B

they're hurting the themselves eles and

um and see it's so cyclical yeah it's

it's it's circular here it's a dance the

whole thing is circular it's ridiculous yeah Stop Dancing bad Florida twostep

there you go this is the Ramsey

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Show

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Dave here you can find all of our shows

with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen

to the entire back catalog of episodes

download the Ramsey Network app in your

favorite app store today

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author host of the Dr John deloney show is my co-host today this hour we're

going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects baby steps

millionaires people have become millionaires we want to talk to real

millionaires you see when I started doing this Radio Show in

1992 over 30 years ago I had this idea

and I still do that if we taught gods

and M's ways of handling money live on

less than you make have a written

plan get out of debt and stay out of

debt steadily invest and

save and be outrageously generous if you

do those five things consistently in

your life that over a period of time you

would become wealthy it's a mathematical fact number

one but number two it's just the fastest

right way to become wealthy and now here

I said 30 plus years later and there's

lots of you have become millionaires

doing this stuff lots of you and if you

did it following the baby steps we call you a baby steps millionaire you do not have to be a baby steps millionaire to be on this show today but you do need to

be a millionaire and for some of you that are new to this let me help you with this a millionaire is an accounting

term it's not a feeling I don't feel

like I have much it doesn't matter what you feel couldn't care less about your feelings this is not a feelings show

that's John's

show H it is uh no one should have that

much money well this is not a moral construct it's not a discussion of wealth inequality although I can go there if you want me to um it it's not

any of that a millionaire is simply an

accounting term it's your net worth well

he's a net worth millionaire that's the only kind of millionaire there is it's a redundant statement okay your network

worth is your what you own minus what you owe assets minus liabilities when

that equals a million dollar regardless

of what the assets are regardless of what the liabilities

are when assets minus liabilities own

versus o equals a million dollars you're

a millionaire and it's not as much money

as it used to be it might not be enough

to do some of the things you want to do but it's more than most people have

there's about 17 millionaire 17 million

millionaires in North America

so they're out there they're all around us I meet them every day when I'm doing

the show every single day when I take a

break during this show at a commercial

break I walk outside and someone comes

up to get their picture taken with me I sign a book or two and I always meet at

least one millionaire every day and they

came by to say hey this is the place

this is where I learned all this stuff this is how it's almost like a a visit

to uh a shrine uh that caused them to be

able to do it and obviously we didn't do it we didn't give them any money we just said you could do it we made you believe you could do it and we showed you how and what the steps are in the Tactical moves with money but there's no magic

pill here and here's the truth it can be done

and we're going to prove it by talking to real millionaires today Blake is with

us in Nashville Blake what's your net

worth my net worth is like5 to $6

million good for you okay give me a

little breakdown by category on that

yeah so um I've got a couple million

dollars in stocks mutual funds um couple

million dollars in uh some a real estate

property uh and then the valuation of uh

the couple businesses is between you

know1 to3 million okay all right in a

business I got about a 100,000 cash hand

so how old are you I am 32 actually be

33 tomorrow wow happy birthday and how

much of this 5 million did you inherit

it uh zero the only thing I inherited is

a common sense and financial sense so

that's a that's one thing I've inherited

but no dude 5 million at 33 is Pretty

stinking impressive from zero yes sir

thank you so what has been your best year income and your worst year income since you've been working the last 13 years or so well I own my own business

um and of course starting off it that

took you know no income 13 years ago um

but my highest year would probably be

last year and did right at seven figures

right at a million and then this year

we're looking at um doing about 60 to

70k a month okay and we're talking about

profit here taxable income yes sir way

to go man what kind of a business have you got uh actually it's a a martial arts

school I I do own some properties too

but um I grew up doing martial arts and

when I was 19 I opened a opened a school

and uh that's been the the rest is history so it's it's been very fortunate

to be able to take a passion and make a

career you know not only changed my life

but those around me as well very cool you have a four-year degree yes I I have a uh degree in

business finance what was your G GR in

2012 um gosh probably

3.6 3.7 something like that okay so you

would say I think if I'm listening to

your story correctly that the way you became a millionaire was were very successful in business correct yeah I've I've uh

always tried to learn from other people's experience and wisdom and try

not to duplicate some of their mistakes and and uh uh yeah just a lot of good

decisions and planning things out and uh

I lived with my parents till I was about 26 so you have to pay everything off and

make sure that uh you know I was financially set I spent some time doing

martial arts myself not nearly with the lifelong commitment you've made how much

of that slow and steady and just

discipline and doing the same things

over and over again how much of that

have have you used in the business world because it sounds like you've like if I look back you've moved really quickly to

gain this much net worth but at the same time it sounds like you've just been pretty methodical and pretty wise about

your next steps yeah I think that uh you know

martial arts the self discipline that comes with martial arts you know I started when I was eight years old U and

I think that the discipline that learned

from that uh it kind of bled over into

uh my being able to make good financial

decisions and you know I tell my students before you can learn to do something have to learn to do nothing and uh you just take your time and think and plan things out instead of making

you know irrational decisions based on emotion wow okay there's a 19-year-old

version of you out there what do you tell them the secret is um I think it's a kind of a two-part

uh two-part uh secret uh or answer I

guess but um I think the the first thing

is being able to find a mentor uh

someone that you that you look up to whether it's you know your based on your

financial uh you know goals financially

or whether it's a relationship or faith

um and then follow them listen to them

and then part two like I we just touched on is being able to have the self-d discipline to follow through with it and do it you know consistently dude you're a stud man

you're a hero well done that's absolutely amazing starting from nothing

and uh $5 million at 33 years old happy

birthday wow leave your contact

information with Christian on the phone there cuz I've been looking for a school for my two kids and you're exactly the kind of man that I want my kids learning from so leave your leave your school info I'm you're you're you just knocked

my socks off my man very cool good stuff

man good stuff this is a baby steps

millionaires theme hour on the ramsy

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show [Music]

on [Music]

[Applause]

it's a baby steps millionaires theme hour Dr John deloney Ramsey personality

is my co-host today open phones atle

88255 225 is we take questions from only

millionaires actually we don't want to take questions we're actually going to give you the questions we're going to interview you and find out how you got

here the misnomer is that millionaires

can't happen in America today unless you're a movie star or a sports figure

or a music icon of some kind and the

truth is among people that have a million dollar net worth or greater

those three categories put together account to less than 1% of the

millionaires hey you you wrote about a

thing in baby steps millionaires that it

was a light bulb moment for me I would

love for you to talk about a little bit you have a section called millionaires are not billionaires and I thought that

was an instructive conversation to have

well yeah it's it's um I think sometimes

when because the the whole thing on

millionaire became a thing in the

20s because a millionaire then was a lot

lot of money billionaire in the 1920s

probably a billionaire yeah and and so

it was like the game Monopoly was

developed about that time right and so

everything is around this idea of

acquiring and building a net worth of a million dollars because that was rich

that became the definition of rich and

Easy Street you're going to be on Easy Street and so then but what is happened

is over the years then the people think

it's not attainable to become a

millionaire which is a really good place

to be as a minimum starting point going

into your retirement it's not necessary that you're there to live but you you know that that sets you up for a pretty strong golden years it does not set you

up for opulence okay and so like for

instance no millionaires almost no

millionaires own a jet almost no millionaires own a

$400,000 Lamborghini or seven cars okay

almost no millionaires have uh a house

uh at the beach a house in the mountains

and a house that is a house most of them have one house that's it so it's a it's

a that's instructive for me because when

I think I could never have that no

because that's not the goal well it's not the first goal you could get there but a b see a billion is a thousand

million when you think about that it's a

thousand times more than a millionaire

well yeah they've got a jat yeah they've

got seven cars and yeah they got four houses but they got a thousand times

more money that's it's still a uh it's

still 5% of their net worth right

exactly exactly but I mean it's a it's

so but what what I the reason I wanted

to point that out is in the book and when we're talking about it is not that a billion is bad and a million is good

that's not the point or or that you but

but if you think of I'll never have

enough money to have a jet a house three

houses and seven cars then you're not

thinking about a million dollars you're thinking about a billion dollars and so yeah that is there are a lot fewer of

those right you know when I started this

show only 300 of the 400 Forbes 400

wealthiest people were billionaires even now 100% of them are billionaires and it

requires Pro you know quite a several

billion to even be on that list you know

and so but that's you know the the

number of billionaires there are in America whoo way less than millionaires

so it's it's okay to be a billionaire if you want to call me and tell me how you got to be a billionaire oh by the way you're not going to become a billionaire mathematically with your 401k right and

you're paid for a house but you will

become a millionaire with those two things uh which is the first step you

know the first 1 to five million to hit there so uh you know but but you don't

talk the uh of the people on the fors

400 the billionaires um 67% of them are

first generation they did not inherit their money two out of three that's

that's a bunch I mean so that says it can still be done but uh like 90 uh not

I think all of them I'll have to go back

and look I looked at it one time it may be one or two that inherited money of

the ones that made it the started from

nothing all of them owned and ran big

businesses his business yeah lightning struck yeah they they you know Michael Dell Dell computers right Bill Gates

Microsoft right Apple uh you know you go

through and you look at the tech world you go through and look at um uh uh uh

you know uh Elon Kathy family Tri

Chick-fil-A okay Elon Musk um you know

those Elon and uh uh Buffett are the two

number number one number two and Bezos you know but Bezos started his Elon started his from nothing yeah they both came from nothing and so but that's but

but don't confuse those two if uh it

because it can lead you to losing hope

that it can be done cuz the millionaire

is very attainable billionaire you got

to you got to run a business you got to

run a big business it can be done but you're not going to do that with your 401k not mathematically not you can't

put enough in there to get there it's that simple Margaret is with us in

Washington DC Margaret you're net worth

uh 5.6 million and I feel like I'm slow

to I feel like I'm slow to the dance based on that last caller because he's 32 and I'm 57 we're all slow to the

dance after that last caller I'll just tell you so you're 57 all right give me

a little breakdown on that uh 5.6

million sure it uh our home

um we beach home a commercial office

space small commercial office space is

worth what about 3 point uh 3.1 3.2 okay

and the remaining amount are 401ks IRAs

annuity um liquid assets um just a whole

so another 2.5 of that correct okay all

right very Co you'd be proud of me I spoke to you last December and you told me here I was crazy that I kept a balance on my beach house mortgage AG because I had so much in cash and today

after talking to Dawn I went to the bank and I paid off the remaining beach beach

house balance all right you can't come

on the air again without that thing paid

off that's what John told me and you

know John you made me go back in deck because I bought your book

today well if you're going to go back in debt buy a hundred of them then yeah go

all right how much of this 5.6 did you inherit zero all right and your best

year working income your worst year working income combined um about 450

between myself and my husband um worst

case probably when I got out of college maybe making about 36 okay and what's

your careers um I'm in sales I work for

myself um my husband's an attorney and

um yeah so I've always been in business for myself and I always say I have a great boss okay cool well obviously he

has a law degree what's your degree um

my undergrad was education in Spanish I

was going to be a Spanish teacher and then I got into the computer field and then at age 50 I got my Master's in in

business NBA no actually I I have a love

for nutrition and food studies and wanted to become a nutritionist but then I found out there's no money in it so I stuck with my business all right but I

still do nutrition on the side love it okay and what was your GPA um as a master's it was 4.0 um

undergrad I didn't really that was

terrible like 3.3 I should have was

awful I can't believe you did that okay oh man I've got I've got two

questions for you um the first one is how much of that did you steal U zero all right all right I

thought y'all were all crook yeah no no

none at all all right the second one is how many books do you read a month you

know I'm ashamed because I I don't I I

read probably two a year because by the

time my kids I mean my my son just graduated from college my daughter's in college and I'm exhausted I still open

the books and I fall asleep fall asleep

that's I've been I've been there the last few months hey so that makes that makes me even more grateful that you

read one to two books a year and you bought his book you bought mine that makes my heart full thank you and I have your other book as well and I do I do I

am reading intentional living by John Maxwell um and uh

so I just don't read enough I'm

embarrassed to tell you don't be embarrassed or ashamed you should read anything John Maxwell writes he's awesome we love we love John you're

doing great yeah yeah I'm really enjoying it my book will for sure put you to sleep so Dave I have to tell you

really really can I tell you something really quick that I had told Don and she said you got to tell Dave this sure I

made a stupid mistake when I got out of college I had a Mazda Arc 7 beautiful

California ocean blue me and my husband

at the time my ex-husband and we

couldn't afford the tires and they were going to be over $1,000 dollar to put new tires on so I thought I was a really

Savvy business business person and I said let's go to the Honda dealership and let's lease a car for $200 a month

and uh we'll save ourselves

$800 stupid I mean that was probably the

dumbest thing I've ever done and then you still ended up with 5.6 million by

57 you overcome the Thousand Tire deal

well done awesome way to go Margaret

good talking to you this is a baby steps

millionaires theme hour on the Ramsey

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[Applause] [Music]

Show

[Music]

Dr John deloney Ramsey personality is my

co-host today it's a baby steps millionaires theme hour anybody that has

a net worth of a million dollars you're welcome to call in we want to know how much you got how you did it so that

other people can learn from you learn what we call in business best

practices how'd you do it so we can do

it Zach is with us in Salt Lake City

Zach what's your net worth hi Dave and John it's uh 1.8

million somewhere around there excellent

and give me a little breakdown by category so a paid off house it's around a

million dollars um Ira SEP IRA and and a

brokerage account invested in mutual funds around 450,000 I've got a CD with $200,000 in

it and then our you know high yield

savings with 150,000 that way to go how

old are you 37 all right very good and

how much of this did you inherit

zero zero all right I love love it very

good cool cool and your income your best

year and your worst year best year was around 650,000 whoa

and uh worst year was around 50,000 okay

cool what do you do for a living yeah I

uh I run a sales team for a Solar

Company wow okay cool you four-year

degree no degree I went for three years

and and uh found out sales as my and and

so I I never finished but but $650,000

later you figured it out huh I guess so

yeah way to go man very very cool all

right what do you tell the uh younger version of you is it still possible

today to become a millionaire starting from nothing like you did absolutely in fact I think it's it's

probably easier today than ever to

become there's a lot of good lot of good

opportunities out there and uh you know

I think I wish I'd have known years ago

I called in to the show last year and um

I was actually a a net worth millionaire

last year before I started following your plan and I called in and you you

gave me some encouragement to go ahead and pay off my house and and everything so I wish that I'd have started younger

um I always lived under my means but I I

wish that I started following you know avoiding debt and and investing younger

and one one thing that I do want to say

is is uh you know there's a lot of

people that you know disagree I guess

with paying off a mortgage early they say hey you should keep that money you know keep the mortgage and invest the money or whatever and I I get their

argument but the thing that I really like about what you teach is once you

have that mortgage paid off um it's a

lot easier to invest into retirement and

and other things I'm investing a lot of money right now every month on on autopilot and I if I would have had a mortgage or car payments I wouldn't be doing those Investments and that's

probably the best argu I've heard from from Ramsey on on that yeah you know my

contention also is and I ask you about

this because it's interesting to me um

is that when you're running a business a small business like you are um uh that

you make different decisions when you

have zero debt at

home absolutely I'm more confident in

the decisions I make here at Ramsey

because I don't have to worry about the home front I agree yep and therefore I think

I think I end up making more money here because of that I think I agree I think

I there's no desperation

decisions it's a lot easier to make a

sale when you don't have to make the sell I agree yeah because uh broke

salespeople smell bad they do and you

can also break up with those customers that are just driving you mad um you

could say you know I'm GNA move on because I don't I don't I don't need this I don't have to have this so that my family can eat and hey so while we

got you you got a lot of money in CDs

and a savings account are you saving for

something big Yeah Yeah we actually have

a a family friend that's uh he's

developing some land up here um about a

mile or two from my house it should be

ready in the next year so that's why I've been piling money up there so that

when it comes available I want to I want to buy a lot with cash good knows

deloney fantastic hey and one more thing

so um you're a good case study for me

I'm always telling folks listen I get

the if you're one of those folks who bought a house at 2.9% I get the math

problem there it's an excellent math problem in your favor especially when you look historically you had that you had a

house on the front end of this and then you're a millionaire and then you thought I'm just going to pay this thing off what kind of piece do you have in

your house do you feel different tell me

if I'm crazy because I don't mind being wrong in fact I'm wrong a lot but is it

does it feel different it's my it's yours it feels a lot different what what Dave

always says about you know walking barefoot in the grass it just feels different it you don't really know that

feeling until you go ahead and and pay off the house and so I I'll never go

into debt again and and a lot of my friends kind of laugh at that and they think oh you you know when you build a house you will and I said no I'll uh I'm

gonna save up and and and maybe go a little bit slower but it it's silly to

me to think that I had a mortgage and and and car payments before now that you're out of it I don't want ever want to go back and the feeling is really really good

yeah way to go I'm proud of you man yeah

you're a stud man you're a hero way to go very proud of you good work Ann is

with us in Columbus Ohio and your net

worth just at 2.5 million love it okay

and uh how old are you I'm 46 my husband is 52 all right

very cool give me a little breakdown by

category on the two and a half

million it's 1 7 in retirement 600 in

our paid off home $100,000 in cash and

another 100 in other miscellaneous

Investments very good 29 and perfect mix

well done how much of this did you

inherit well a few years ago many years

ago I got $4,000 when my grandmother

passed away okay so it's safe to say you

are not a millionaire because of an inheritance

no but I do have good parents yeah I

didn't say that hey I just I want you to

know if you watch this on YouTube live I

just laughed but not at your Grandmother's passing you set this up

and I thought you were GNA say I got a million dollars but you said I got 4,000

bucks yeah so what's your best year

working income since you've been working and your worst year well our worst year was back during

the beginning of the stay-at-home mom years and it was about 70,000 and our

best year will probably be this year

where it should be around 440,000 wow

but um it's only been like that the last

so many years since we're empty nesters

so most of those years were you know

under 100,000 100 to 150 we went back

and looked and um where we are today

especially from the retirement front is

based on what we did during the years

where we didn't make a lot of money it's

much less based on what we do

today what we're doing today I hear you

yeah so what what do you what do you do for a living and what's your husband do what's your careers um we're both mechanical

engineers by degree I work in marketing

and he works in project management okay and I assume you have

engineering degrees both of you yes okay and your um GPS

uh well so remember the engineer it was

a threep point for me because that's what I needed to keep my scholarship or

my parents were making me pay for school

and it was 2.7 for my husband's

undergrad and he actually got accepted

into a master's program conditionally

because they were concerned about his um

2.7 GPA but he worked fulltime all the

way through college yeah wow you guys

are incredible what's your advice to the younger version of you

listening uh one really important thing

is be very intentional about who you

marry somebody with shared values shared

goals somebody who's

hardworking take FPU early um taking

Financial Peace University we didn't take it till 2013 and it was rocket fuel

we had a lot of the the basics in place

but that's really really what brought everything together wow thanks for the ad that was

awesome just amazing very well done

thank you an we appreciate you you're

amazing I'm so proud of you guys way to

go hero this is a baby steps

millionaires theme hour on the Ramsey

[Music]

Show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day Philippians 4:12 I know what it is to be in need and

I know what it is to have plenty I have

learned the secret of being content in any and every situation whether wellfed

or hungry whether living in plenty or in

want David Lee Roth said money can't buy

you happiness but it can buy you a big

yacht a yacht big enough to pull up

alongside

it oh my goodness well done uh Wayne is

in Chattanooga Wayne you're net

worth hey uh Dave thanks for taking my

call um 3.4 million good for you all

right how old are you give give or take give or take a month you know how okay

how old are you I'm 62 62 all right and

give me a little break give me a little breakdown on the 3.4 million all right

so I will say let's say nine years ago I

had about a million dollars Dave um and

since that time uh in that million

dollar was in a TR mostly in a

traditional 401K uh so you know taxable um and since

that time I've made a few uh real estate

Investments um and have basically in

that nine years changed that million to

over $3 million good for you through

multiple some of it being um residential

and then uh you know um one of those

Investments was uh a commercial

investment so um yeah that's kind of

where it's ended up um I I'm I'm debt

free uh my home's worth approximately

425,000

um and that's kind of where I'm at good

for you well done okay yeah all right

and what was your how much of this did you inherit well that's a funny story uh my

father passed away when I was very young

um I inherited U

$7,000 um and as a and I was a teenager

uh at that point I I bought a car or a

truck for 3500 bucks so left me with

$3,500 and so I decided my grandfather was a uh

he invested and I didn't know anything

about it but what I did know is I knew

that it it it really my grandfather was

he ended up very wealthy so um I wanted

to kind of Follow that path so I went to

the bank and the banker said to me he

says uh yeah you know I had $3,500 said

just put it in your savings account I saidwell I'm not really I don't really want to do that and uh so ultimately I

put in 30 I put in $500 into a savings

account and then I had $3,000 left and

and through the help of my grandfather and I was 17 years old at the time uh

helped me invest that into a mutual

fund um which was a Fidelity mellin Fund

I'm sure you're familiar that yeah

what's it worth today uh hundreds of thousands

I never I never touched it that's

incredible and it um and I think for the

younger the younger generation to

understand what investing is about I had

to go to a facility we had to go somewhere make an

appointment in order for me to invest that 300 $3,000 uh and it there was a fee

attached to it it was it was a process I

mean today I could do that in 60 seconds

you know uh and I and I believe today

Building Wealth is so much easier than

it was when you and I were growing up

you're right you're right and and so is destroying it both are easier is it's so

is destroying it it it absolutely is um

but I think I I think it's it's it's so

much easier today if I if I were myself

back then uh planed today it'd be so

much easier I'd be worth tens of

millions of dollars more I mean there's

no question there's no question about it

if I knew then what I know now wow

absolutely way to go Wayne proud of you

man excellent job Dave I I I'm I'm just

struck now this is a small sample size

but everyone we've talked to today has

been generating wealth significantly

several of our callers said they've had their best years this year or last year

recently mhm and every shred of news I

get from every angle of my life is how

the economy's falling apart there's no way to get ahead everybody everything's awful it's all coming down and all the

calls we took today people are saying

well it's it's the time and apparently

someone uh decided not to participate in

the recession High interest rates and

high we can't do it with they're just

they just are one guy's a Salesman

somebody else is a Salesman somebody else is a two salespeople an attorney a martial

arts uh owner two mechanical engineers

um best year ever best year ever best year ever yeah yeah this year this year this year despite the inflation despite nobody spending money 5.5 million 5.6

million 1.8 million 2.5 million 3.4

million no one inherited anything

appreciably I mean that was subst

nothing substantial that made them a millionaire and so the idea that all

millionaires are inherited money 79% of

millionaires are study inherited zero

another 5% inherited a small amount like these 4,000 $4,000 $7,000 but not enough

to make you a millionaire and another 5%

inherited substantial money after they were already millionaires so 5 and five

and 79 is 89 so that will help tell you

that nine out of 10 of America's millionaires are first generation Rich

did it without an inheritance so when

these left-wing nut jobs tell you that

it's all over and the only thing that's going to work for you is Carl Marx

because they're college professor who's a communist told them that uh and then

they tell you that it's impossible to get ahead in America I'm telling you the

actual data says nine out of 10

millionaires are first generation

Rich that's it's such it's so counter

counterintuitive it's so counternarrative both both counternarrative it's not counterintuitive not counterintuitive counternarrative at at the macro level

at the you just can't get ahead anymore and then at the micro level it's all

coming down it's all coming down it's all coming down it's just not yeah yeah it might be but it doesn't look I mean

everybody's having the best year of their life man it's wild $100 a month

invested from age 25 to age 65 at 12% in

a good mutual fund and the stock market is averaged 11.6 for 80 years okay but so you know

$100 a month invested from age 25 to age

65 1,

$176,000

$100 that's with no match that that's

with you know no magic and Tick Tock

mirrors to buy nothing down real estate

that you can't afford or shirts t-shirts

on for on on four

payments yeah that's true yeah there's no

payments involved in that uh but people

can't find $100 you know and uh and the

reason is I got a $750 truck payment and

the reason is they got a student loan that during the last three years when there's been no interest they paid nothing on it and and come Sunday Bloody

Sunday here we go man man uh I mean it's

uh this coming Sunday is the when the student loans start back October one baby it's here life is real so we're

going to send a team to uh Washington DC

yeah and do some man on- the street stuff Monday because that's uh when the

student loans have started back the

government might also shut down by then

cuz the children and the sandbox throwing crayons at each

other gosh Billy kicked sand in my eyes

he's a republican I don't like Dan he's

a Democrat it's my it's my my sand

castle I want to put $2 billion doar in

for uh Rat research in into the budget

and we keep voting for these and if you

don't do that then we're going to shut down the government you know so you know

what it would be kind of cool if they solve some morons dodgeball you voted

them in I voted them in it's our freaking fault we we do this to

ourselves man I don't know one person

that's like man bang up job bang up job

anybody's doing I think you guys are

just amazing the efficiency by which you

govern in did you see that thing that Warren Buffett said it's like amazing when he said I could solve the the deficit tomorrow yep you're all fired

yeah well or you don't you get zero pay until you get the budget balanced oh by the way I saw that um all the federal

employees will lose their paychecks when they shut the government down but not

the uh Congress congress not the Congress nope nope uh we vote ourselves an exemption

because we're incompetent that puts this

hour of the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the

Prince of Peace Christ

Jesus hey it's Dr John delone if you

like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps go to ramsy

solutions.com and click on the get

started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your

specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 180. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 26, 2023)


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---

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money we're going to talk about you right in front of you baby open phones at 8825 5225 the call is free and some say it's

worth exactly what you pay for it Kim is with us Kim is in Asheville North Carolina starting off this hour hi Kim how are you hello how are you better than I deserve what's up okay so I have a question um we hired

a gentleman to do our taxes in March of this year and we ended up hiring him to do financial planning for us as well and

after hir ing him to do that we

discovered that he had filed bankruptcy twice and had been sued for writing a bad check and so my question is um well he F

bankruptcy in 2019 was his last one that

was the second one and the it said the

certified financial planning board revoked his right to use their certification Mark H and then he also

was sued for writing a bad check to a moving company recently and that was um in

2018 and so we had already paid him a large fee to use him for financial planning and I guess my question is should this be of concern to us we have discussed this with him what

did he say he says that we don't

understand what it's like to run our own business um and just basically was you know he

was very rude about it and said his business would go on with or without us o uh I want my money back I'm leaving I don't care about the bankruptcy with your butt I don't want to work with you right and he you don't get to be rude to me about this you're self you're self you're defensive which means that

yeah I've been I've been sued and I filed bankruptcy but if you ask me about it I'll just tell you I almost feel like not last week but I mean I'll just tell you right I almost feel like you open with that if you're if that's part of your story that's what's informed you to this point he claimed that he told us in the contract well I made him send that back to us

because it disappeared after we signed it and we couldn't see our own copy so he sent it to me a couple weeks ago there was a link that we could click in small print

about this how much did you pay this guy

$1,500 okay will he refund you or not he

will not okay I'm walking anyway I'm walking anyway I'm walking anyway well yeah we told him we were walking because we don't trust him and just because of his attitude exactly exactly it's not the thing it's the attitude okay because here's the thing okay let's say the moving company tore up 17 of his items and then they

would then they wanted to you know and then he unpacked it and found a vase that they were responsible for they don't want to refund him for the broken vase so he stops payment on the check they sue him well that's a valid story

sure right he also he told me that he

didn't he settled that check I said well you didn't settle it or they wouldn't have sued you yeah well it's the

attitude is the thing it's like look hey if I were in your here's the proper way to answer this question if I'm him if I were in your shoes I'd have these exact same concerns I'm happy to tell you the details okay here's what happened in this situation and here's what happened in that situation and the bankruptcy was not you don't understand why it's like to run a business

the bankruptcy was I did some stupid butt things I learned from it and I'm not doing them anymore the check was the moving company misbehaved and I used that as leverage and it got out of hand and they sued me but they had no basis to judge through it out yeah he blamed his ex-wife for the bad check I I don't care you see what I'm saying that

if you had gone that way then he would have redeemed his credibility if he' had been smarter and done what Jade said and set upfront what was going on it's part of your story that's fine that's fine that's what we

felt but i' I've been sued for things that I didn't do that they made up in effort to try to basically use the court system to Blackmail me to settle with them I refuse to settle with them so that gets all in the news so you can look up Dave Ramsey got sued but the basis of the lawsuits are zero didn't absolutely did not occur but it doesn't matter

you can sue somebody for anything in America so I don't mind telling you that that's happened okay um but but I've still got you know I've still got if you want to be pissed at Dave Ramsey randomly you can find places on the internet that I did all kinds of things I didn't do yeah well I you know he said he was

going to sue the certified financial planning board for good luck with that yeah and I was like how can you do that yeah he just sounds a little I don't I really don't like his attitude I don't like that he's defensive he sounds like he's pointing the finger blaming it doesn't sound like it's going to be a fun work environment for you to work with this I'm walking away

I think I think I think you should walk away and you already had walked away so you already knew the answer to the question yeah she well she probably wanted to know if there was some way she could force him to get the money back but I wouldn't put any effort into it I'd just move on I don't think you're going to turn him into not being a jerk yeah

I think he's already got that one down well if he hasn't done any work for them yet in that capacity I feel like a good

person would say hey you didn't know this we haven't started this yet here's your money back even a not good person knows that some customers are worth more are more trouble than they're worth and if I'm her and I disagree with her I mean if I'm him and I disagree with her she's more trouble than she's worth here's your money back go away even if I even even

if I'm not a good person it's just it's worth the just to get rid of them absolutely you know we fire a customer around here that misbehaves ever so often they you can't call here and cuss at our people we don't allow you to do that yeah we'll give you your money back tell you go away you know that's all right I don't I don't put up with your junk cuz some customer service uh people in America their whole job is to get cussed at by Rah holix all day long ter

and we don't our our customer service people I tell them listen just tell them no yeah we don't wait a minute wait we don't talk like that here you're not doing that just call somewhere else and be pissed off take your money and that you're going to use here and use it for counseling you need it you know just move on right but yeah I mean it it's even

if you're on the other side of it it's worth it to get rid of and I don't think Kim's that I think Kim's figured this out um yeah the sad thing is is

that now she's questioning all Financial people or planners yeah whether or trustworthy I'll tell you what you know smart Fester Pro will sit down with you they don't charge you a thing cuz they make a commission yep off of of uh selling you a mutual fund for your for your Roth IRA or your kids college fund um and they don't make anything unless they sell you something

so people are all suspect about that but they're the good ones they do it with the heart of a teacher that's why we endorse smart Vestor Pros uh we don't have any fee based financial planners in our system yeah that are upfront fees uh not because I'm mad at them they just don't like us because I endorse mutual funds yeah that makes sense and um you know

because here's the thing there's a thing in the financial world is worth talking about this in the 20 seconds we've got called the fiduciary and you see it on there's there's one company running and they're lying about it on their TV ad during uh football I saw it last two or three weekends I can't think what it's called little green sign in the background but like we are fiduciaries

we are fiduciaries we don't make anything unless you make something we are fidu no the word fiduciary means a person of trust can you trust someone that gets a commission yes if they're

trustworthy all real estate agents are commission-based fiduciaries and they should put your interest first yeah they just they but just because you get paid when they make a sale doesn't mean you can't have integrity that's right that's absurd so that's the financial world right now this is the Ramsey

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Show

hey guys I've told you before about Christian Healthcare Ministries a health cost sharing Ministry but listen to Jenna a chm member she says one of my

biggest concerns about entrepreneurship and motherhood was figuring out how to take care of our health expenses but we have found a solution that works for us in and an incredible way she loves that with chm she can help other families who need it and receive help back when her own family has an eligible medical event chm has been a godsend for Jenna that's

her chm story and it could be yours learn more and join at chministries.org

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my coach co-host today the ramsy show question of the day sponsored by neighborly your hub for home services from repairs and maintenance to Remodeling and upgrades neighborly trusted home service providers have trained local experts to handle almost any job download the neighborly app and you can connect to all the help you need these are great people they are today's question of the day comes from Paula in Georgia my son school is running a food bank

so I sent him with some highly requested items such as peanut butter canned soup soup and tuna fish when my husband saw them he insisted we don't donate quality items like these and instead only Donate rice and beans I'm

aware that you've told people to eat beans and rice if they're on a tight budget and cannot afford to indulge and nicer Foods however I also know that you

value generosity and giving and I didn't see anything wrong with donating something other than beans and rice do you believe that the same principle applied to those on a tight budget should also be applied to recipients of food banks oh brother I don't mean to laugh but it's just so silly that's silly it's

silly yeah number one when we say beans and rice honey it's a metaphor yeah a

metaphor is a a representation philosophically of an actual item I am not suggesting that people only live on beans and rice I am suggesting that you quit spending s dad gun much money on food especially eating out all the time so probably prime rib is not on your list or Lobster taale but possibly even

some Hamburger Helper might make the list you don't have to just literally do beans and rice it's a metaphor I think this guy was just looking for an excuse to be a tightwad be a che SK he didn't have to look for an excuse he already was I mean goodness gracious and it's

not like tuna fish is that big of an upgrade from racing beans I mean come on now and here's the deal I mean what we're talking about is you limiting your consumption so so you can create margin

yeah to move ahead we're not talking about those poor people don't need any good food what in the world dude terrible seriously seriously yeah that's horrible

yes they need some good food send them some good food you cheap skate your wife is right your son is even better learn from them sir yeah oh my gosh if you're going to give something away be generous with what you're giving that's right hly I'm going to give you a car but it doesn't really run because you can just you can figure that out for yourself what in the world you know what Dave though I I've I've been okay so I've been here about 13 months 14 months I am

shocked at how many people I've encountered that think the beans and rice rice and beans thing is literal let me tell you what's worse okay 30 years of doing this I have had precisely

4732 offers to co-author a beans and

rice cookbook with other listeners

I made that up but it's close to 4,000 I mean it's unbelievable the and apparently it would be a best seller if we could just get the people that wanted to co-author it look with me to buy it but yeah people keep asking me about it I'm beans and rice cookbook no it's it's a it's a metaphor a metaphor it's a metaphor yes you can this you can eat different food look it up look up metaphor it's good for oh my gosh yeah but we don't need to be going out to eat

every night it's some fancy spancy thing or for that matter for fast food because it's fast but it's not necessarily food and the um and you know you're working so that

you can learn to put yourself as a guy I used to work for would say we're working so I can get enough money that I can read the menu from left to right I know that's right I don't start with the price I get to start with a thing and pick what I want prices irrelevant but when you're broke you self-manage your

consumption not other people imposing on you yeah their their beans and rice so

oh my gosh yeah then you're entering into like a judgment kind of Zone I

think and it's like well just be

generous if you can yeah I mean I yeah

you you kind of missed the point sir yeah kind of not kind of you did all right Aya is with us aa's in Washington DC hi Aya what's up hi Mr Ramsey hey um

I was wondering if we should pay off our current mortgage and relocate for a current cheaper mortgage what's making you ask that question wait pay off your current mortgage or relocate and get a cheaper mortgage what would be cheaper than a paid off mortgage um so we bought a house that

needed to be fixed up so we fixed it up and now it's we just had a realer come out and tell us what we could list it as my husband was in the military and just

got out and his job fell through so it kind of shook us and we just wanted to

move somewhere with the proceeds to have

a cheap enough mortgage to be covered by my

disability okay um so you're not you don't have the opportunity to pay off your mortgage you're talking about moving to a less expensive property because you're scared about his income right why do you think he's not going to get an income um it's not so much that he

wouldn't get one we're just um kind of

thinking about we prioritizing our time

the house that we bought is a historic house so it takes a lot of Maintenance we do a lot of the work ourselves that's a different discussion what do you owe on that house uh 490 490,000 I already don't like the

house I hate that we have spent so much time on it we can get some good money for it and get something I like is a good reasonable move I'm using his lack

of a job and a cheaper mortgage as my excuse is not okay okay um you see the difference

we're just kind of we're both yeah we're both on the same boat so we're just you know the boat where he doesn't work just that he has more flexibility and we're

not how old is he not right now how old is he we're 25 and 26 okay he needs to

get a career darling it's not good for him to not work much I'm not saying he won't work I

am saying he needs to get a career where he works okay I'm hearing the code words in your language 100% he's not to work much at all and that's worrying part of it is he got knocked out of the saddle and didn't get the other job and it's he's lost some of his confidence and you're clearly worried because you're talking about selling your house and relocating so that

you could only live on your disability like you said it with your own words I don't think that that came out right we he wants to work that's not the issue the issue is is that we want to be more flexible with not having to deal with the house and not having a mortgage that's so high is the mortgage than 25% of your take-home pay it is now that he's not working

but before that was it

no no it wasn't okay okay so your

mortgage amount is not your problem the house if you want to get rid of a house that's a money pit where you work on it all the time I don't blame you I would do that okay but let let's not couch that in he wants more flexibility and

when I'm talking about his job your answer is he wants more flexibility it wasn't when I was talking about the house repairs you said that so I didn't

didn't misunderstand you you said it real clearly so what what we need to do let's let's parse this out and break it up number one the two of you need to get really good cool strong careers that you're passionate about I will send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book from paycheck to purpose number two it doesn't sound like your mortgage is off me neither and I'm I'm actually wondering number three

I would sell a house it's a money pit and I had to screw with it all the time it drive me nuts that's true but I don't know that if it's a money pit that's one thing but I don't know I'd Beed to know more she's in Washington DC where does she plan on relocating where she's going to they may be move into a whole different city too that's possible

but yeah which would be less expensive for sure yeah I'm getting rid of The Money Pit but I'm also getting a career yeah they need and probably get in the house about the same price range that in The Money Pit M when I make the move that's would be my advice to you guys don't don't mix these things together and create some kind of false narrative that's not really going on okay that's what

I heard heard you saying I think you were saying it whether you wanted to or not this is the ramsy

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[Applause] more in the lobby of ramsy Solutions on the debt free stage Christina is with us hi Christina how are you hi good welcome

nervous oh yeah you're okay we've never lost a patient that's right you're going to be all right we're proud of you so you're here to do a Deb free scream where do you live Clarksville Tennessee Clarksville military family um I used to

be in the military but I'm not now okay well thank you for serving a lot of a lot of military in Clarksville that's what I was asking yes all right and uh how much debt did Christina from Clarksville pay off $ 34,1 162 you're

amazing how long did this take 36 months good for you th000 bucks a month get it and your range of income during that three years $4,490 a year to

$49,500 on your house cleaning business well so um my business started 8 years ago um

but um my journey um officially started

I went through my first FPU class in 2012 so I've been doing this for a long time um I was married at the time and

we tried to get on the same page and and um couldn't couldn't and it took a lot of years to figure out that we couldn't

so in 2020 of uh April of 20 my divorce

was filed oh my gosh what a year yeah

and the next month my business closed

because you know nobody wants us in our home when everybody has Co that's right oh wow so I started off my journey um in the basement of a friend of a friend's house with not much money and uh not

really sure what was going to happen and

so since then um start cleaning houses

again yeah started clean and the nice thing about Co is everybody wanted their houses clean once we got that started going again so so we uh we actually got got that back up and going and now um now you're making 50 Grand that's a killer well well that's everything included that's that's um child support and everything but it it that's quite a journey yeah good for you you get after

it girl way that's incredible you got to feel like your your whole life has transformed in 36 months yeah it has it's a whole different world yeah I mean career marital status confidence

everything thing wow you're oh and you got out of debt I got out of debt yeah you're amazing I'm so proud of you it's it's not me it's all it's all God yeah well he he was actually using you to clean those toilets I know that's right you you put you put in the work I did do that yeah you got to plant that corner it doesn't grow as you so so you reap way to go kiddo very proud of you excellent

all right so uh what kind of debt was $34,000 oh it was everything it was a it

was back taxes it was uh back rent um

just from after the divorce it was um student loan car loan um how' you get

all the debt you got all the debt from the divorce um no I got a I got a little

just just over half of it uh but that was my half that was my half of everything okay so the back rent was both of you and then you got half the back rent M okay I love the support I'm

seeing from your son that that is that's hitting me man I love it you you definitely clearly had the support of your family next to you I do that's the only reason that I got here is because of all the support uh it's one thing to have two teenagers it's another to have two good on I mean yes what yeah where

it go she's like what me yes

you amazing amazing wow well you know

they they've been with me the whole time I mean right after right after um um

when we started cleaning again and and things were starting to move along I actually tried to homeschool them cuz that was smart on top of everything I had to deal with I thought that homeschooling them was going to be a good plan so for that first year after Co we homeschooled for a year and and and every month every month for um our

finance lesson I bought the the Ramsey home school thing and everything and every month for our we came up here we came up here to watch your show and I brought my planner and I would do my budget at the end of the month right here in the lobby and then whoever was doing the show I had sign sign my planner for that month so yall were kind of my account ability for that

first month while I was trying to get back on my feet wow wow you're my accountability CU they keep coming to work you're inspiring very inspir so they've been with me they they've come along with me on everything this year when when I finally got in a head space to where I could really buckle down um we I brought them to the Building Wealth live um I came to

the smart conference I brought them with me to meet micro for the labor crisis so they've been drug along with like everything so wow they're my little buddies I love it I love it so what's

next building up the emergency fund feeling good about the future how does it feel to have no debt Sur Real I mean I've been trying since 2012 and and I i' I listen to

these all the time I've come see I've come seen your shows I mean for years

and I I cry every time that I I watch one and I just never imagined I would actually be up here okay so you overcome

living in a friend of a friend's basement you overcome the business closing down and opening up you overcome $34,000 wor of debt you overcome the

loss of your marriage all in the last 36 months you truly are a warrior princess

you're amazing I mean that's powerful really is I feel like a lot of it was I don't think it was because of me I think it I feel like most time it was in spite of me cuz no you're a hero you're a hero you need to own it yeah you do you committed to for some people it really is a longer journey and you committed for

the whole journey it's just like your shirt anybody who can't read her shirt everything is possible for the one who believes and that is such I mean you're really evidence of that you kept belief and you kept going and you got knocked down and you kept going and you got knocked down again and you kept going and here you are on the stage yeah but I'm hard-headed too

I actually called in Ken show about six years ago to ask if I

should try to pay off debt or hire some people for my business and he said that you get what you focus on so I should pay off debt so I went and I hired a bunch of people and

that's hilarious so so you know and then and

then I remember I remember um I remember

the back when y'all were in your old building uh I got I I really I was I got

my husband got me my ex-husband got me a a car for in 2018 for my birthday and I had a paid off van and I was listening to I listen to you guys in a red all I got all your books and I I've been trying for a long time you know and uh I got that and and part of me was like you can't take this

and then part of me was like well it was a gift and her marriage wasn't doing well so this is kind of fun so well we'll see I felt so guilty taking that car that the next day I drove out to your old place in Brentwood to get a lecture from you on

why I shouldn't have a car payment and I felt so as I felt but I left I left the

office that morning and Nicole my office manager she said so you going to tell Dave that uh you're you're you're there in your new car and I said absolutely not and I said in fact I was so ashamed that I parked across the street at the stores and I walked over so that I didn't have to park in your parking lot wow you didn't defile the parking lot

I did not defile the parking lot and I I cannot tell you when I got here this morning and I was driving out here and my my my financial coach Andy he took a picture of my parking spot where you have the name of all the debt free screams and like it like just kind of blew me away like 5 years ago I was hiding in the bushes

and now you now you have a parking spot of Honor look at that you don't have to park across the street at the store in the parking spot of Shame that's right that's right I have a car that you can't open the door from the outside but that's okay that's only temporary that's only temporary how old how old are your your kiddos

um 16 and 14 16 and 14 and their names

uh his is Grace and Christian Grace and Christian well go well done mom well done I know you're nervous but um we're pretty impressed you you we run into a lot of people on this stage and some of them are Overcomers some of them knock a few things down uh you you you just took a machete and whacked your way through the jungle kiddo pretty amazing pretty amazing well done hey we've got

the live and give box for you that includes The Total Money Makeover book The Baby Steps millionaires book because that's your destiny and uh no stopping this one woo

and a Financial Peace University membership and you guys are incredible uh Grace and Christian I I know you know this but your mom is a superhero very

cool all right count it down you guys 34,000 paid off in 36 months from 15,000

to 49 count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're debt

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free wow goodness

woo allergies are bad this season I'm just saying that'll make your eyes water right there that's the Ramsey

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rules and restrictions May

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apply

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at

88255 225 well in case you wondered if

smart conference that you did on the hill up here was important last caller told us it was or one of the other streaming events or one of the other 9 million things we do around here like I'm doing a show every day and you can come in here and watch the show live is important we had no idea she'd been in here all those times that's right it first time we ever met her MH so very very interesting stuff very interesting stuff speaking of starting your journey

uh Jade washaw will be doing a free every dooll webinar at everydollar.com

budgeting you can sign up up and help you break the cycle of living paycheck to paycheck when is the webinar tomorrow tomorrow at 11:30 central time so sign

up so like Tuesday the 10th yep Tuesday

the 10th Tuesday the 10th at 11:30 a.m.

Central Time if you're not able to do that or you hear this at a later date because you catch it on your podcast or YouTube or something at a later date there are others so be sure to go to everydollar.com budgeting Jade will be doing more Rachel Cruz will be doing more and George will be doing more of these uh budgeting webinars and they actually make budgeting fun

they actually help you work out how to take your paychecks and pick out which thing goes in which thing we call it paycheck planning through the month so every dollar has an assignment for that matter every dollar of every check has an assignment when you're done uh it's a very usable very friendly world's best budgeting app and by the way we're not charging you this free totally free every dollar webinar every

.com/srobiyt no he passed in June but we he passed two months after we bought the house oh I'm so sorry how old was he 53 oh I'm

sorry young what happened yeah um well

long story short and stayed River failure oh my I'm so sorry W how long

were youall married um 14 years okay how

old and you're about the same age I'm 47

47 okay all right how can we help today I'm so sorry so thank you so anyway like

I said this is the first home I've ever owned and I'm trying to figure out everything on my own and it just so happened that the neighbor that we share a fence line with and there is just one fence line the fence line fell into my

property and I was hoping that the homeowner adjacent would go half and half on replacing the fence but they don't seem interested in that so I guess I'm stuck with fixing the fence by

myself okay um well typically the fence

is put up just inside the property line of one party or the other okay so if the

survey was done the fence posts would

typically be on your property or on their property meaning that it's either your fence or their fence okay the posts were definitely on their property okay so it's definitely their fence fix I guess so now that you explained it yeah yeah and so um you

know now uh did something knock it down or it just rotted down or what just yeah just rotted and it was the wind but we both have dogs so I feel somewhat responsible to get it fixed as opposed to what you know it just being an issue

you know so I just didn't know what the recourse if there is any or if I just need to fix it because they won't did when you brought it to them they were probably unaware of whose property it was on do you think that if you let them know hey it's on your property do you think that would change it at all or is it just a situation where they're not spending money on that yeah

I can try now that you told me that because I wasn't sure you know I just didn't know so if I if I the fence posts are on your property so this is your fence I will go in with you to help you fix your

fence oh you know what that sounds a lot Kinder but I sentence can we split this

that's a different sentence if you cuz they're be the owner of the fence when it's fixed M and you're just doing that out of the goodness of you're doing that to keep your dogs out of their yard absolutely and their dogs out of mine but I didn't know that and I wasn't armed with that so maybe I'll try that and see what happens I appreciate it yeah

I don't know my guess is they don't have the money yeah so none of this might change it it might also might help to this is what I would do I might have someone come look at it so I had some actual numbers to say hey oh sure I was looking at this if we both chip in you know $600 I don't know how what that cost

if we both chip in $600 they'll come out and fix it I know you know and tell them it's on their side hey I I took I looked at the parameters it's technically your fence but it benefits both of us if you chip in 600 I'll chip in 600 you know I already found a guy will fix your fence yeah that sounds reasonable I like that thank

you very much I didn't even think about that yeah how how how big a piece of property are we dealing with how long how many how many how long is the section of fences down 50 ft 500 guess it's like I don't know it's like eight panels so I I'm not really good

that okay so it's like a privacy fence correct yes okay all right well

we're not talking a lot of money here then well that's good I was just didn't know if I had any recourse to action but I like what you said I don't think you have any recourse I think you've got persuasion and neighborly love and those kinds of things because here's the problem if you put up a fence just inside your property they can attach to it and still get the benefit of it MH exactly but you know and put no money in

yeah worse comes to worse I'll do that but I like your way better I'll at least try it yeah thanks and you know the other thing I would do and this sounds manipulative but it's not because it's the truth I would just you're a I would sit down in front of them personally if you can do they live there no it's just ENT at the property

that's part of the problem that's why they don't care it's part of the problem too okay oh no not them in particular they they've but they have the renters have dogs that come in your yard yes because the owner has not fixed his fence this is a problem now it's different correct yeah anyway do do the people do you know the people that own it no no not personally do

they happen to live in your area or do you know I don't know that okay if you can find out it's always better to talk about things in person okay always better because and

if you can do that number one number two I would tell them your story and your story is hey I've never done anything like this because I've never owned real estate my husband died right after we moved in here and I don't know how to navigate this stuff so um I don't even

know if I could do that frankly I could barely do it with you guys well if you did it with us you can do it with them yeah I suppose yeah you can do it 24 million people just listened in on this conversation so that's right imagine you can have a one duper over a cup of coffee all right so uh but yeah just just sit down

and go look I lost my husband in June and I don't know how to do all this stuff but here's an idea I had your your your renter's dogs are getting in my yard my dogs are getting in your yard and and the fence is on your property so it's your fence but I'll chip in with you on your fence I got some bids like Jade said it's 400 bucks I'll put in 200

if you guys will put in 200 would you would you help out

help out a neighbor here and let's get this fixed up yeah and you know it's hard to turn that one down and it's also worth mentioning that you're trying to avoid something bigger cuz if you guys' dogs get to fighting if somebody's dog bites in NE like I can just see this snowballing into a bigger issue and if the owner is going to want to avoid that at all cost

if they know what's going on well you know what I'm saying because one more one more word to have one more reason to not have uh Runners with dogs but what do I know so I love dogs love

dogs me and my dog spent time together this morning right before I came to work but uh none but I hate dogs as a landlord so as a we don't have any we don't have any Ramsey houses with dogs in them not not legally anyway there might be some illegal aliens but not not legally so illegal alien dogs yeah yeah

Dave have a heart people they got to bring their they can't bring their pet I know they the problem is they don't make them behave just like some people's children right that's right and then I got a house is all torn up because I didn't have a backbone but anyway that's what's happening so there you go there you go and then the fence falls down that's right dog knocked it down I know what

happened this is the ramsy

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show hey what's up guys it's Jade look

if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to Ramsey solutions.com and click the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

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started [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us America open phones at 88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your money Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us again triple 8 825 5225 Mark starts off this hour in Springfield Missouri hey Mark welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave um I got a

question I know how the baby steps work

but I'm i' I've got a little bit of a quandry as to where I need to put my wife's student loans in this because she is still in school and not having to pay

on them so do I put them in because

she's got 12 loans do I put them in where they go and slow my snowball down or do I put them at the end and continue my snowball until I get to them I'd put them in where they go she's got 12 of them so I'd list i' I'd put those in smallest to largest along with your other debts and you might have one student loan and

then a credit card and then a student loan and then a car payment and then you know it doesn't all have to be by group and I think sometimes in our minds we want it to be that way but that's okay just put them in as they go smallest to largest how much student loan debt is there it's 58,000 and how much other data is there uh there's two cars um one is

9,000 and one is 13,000 and the student loans only one of

them is more than the first car so I'm

going to be paying we're going to be doing like 11 student loans and then a car yeah it's 46,000 that I'm not going to be building what's your household yeah you won't be building any sing because you payments on those to cancel out I got you that's a good point um so the uh what's your

income the household income is 170,000

and when does she graduate uh she'll graduate um she she's

doing part-time schooling so she's got uh I think six semesters left and we can

have both of the cars paid off before that are they are they subsidized or are they unsubsidized she's got two that are

getting taxes not taxes uh interest yeah

and the rest of them aren't um say uh 58

and 46 right you said 58,000 student loan debt and how much other yeah and then uh 9,000 on one car and 13 on another oh

okay so 31 and 58 right so 808 89,000 L than that no

we're at 880,000 we're right at 880,000 M yeah okay all right 79,000 I added it

wrong okay um and you make

170,000 yes okay explain to me why you

can't pay all this in a

year because we have eight

kids wow they don't eat that much you

can raise eight kids on 100 Grand well we the the eight kids are are

all teenagers you can raise eight kids on 100 Grand man there's Sports there's

food there's all that stuff it's just it's a year of sacrifice yeah um because it

170 minus 79 is one year you're debt

free I mean if you can't do it in a year you'll be able do it in 14 months uh I think you're looking you know when you said she's going to be six semesters and you're just going to barely have two cars paid off you're not making any progress no we'll we'll have we'll have the two cars paid off by August of next year yeah you ought to have

you ought to be done by August of next year the whole stinking thing are close so are you paying cash for her College as she goes yes we we have stopped with the student loans we are paying cash for everything now good and what is she studying uh she's getting her master's

and uh business like it's not the MBA but it's it's a a business okay and and her intention is to do what with her career with eight kids uh to help me run my

business I see okay while you have eight

kids yes that are teenagers okay yes all

right yeah good well you're doing well with your business sir is the 170,000 taxable net profit on your business or is that your gross revenues the the 100 100 of it is from

my business that's the uh the taxes and

everything no that's before taxes and everything before before expenses yes what do you take home from the business as payment um well I've been taking home uh

just $800 a week now what are you pay in taxes on on the $100,000 of Revenue that this business creates you do not have a household income of 170 that's why you couldn't see doing this because you don't have a net profit of 100,000 on the business that's your gross revenues okay yeah I'm not sure what it will be this year because I I didn't make this much last year so you make last year last year last year I only made 50,000

gross gross yeah did you net anything on

that um not much we we still with the

money that she paid in for her taxes we still got a tax return so and we have we have fixed that I know that you don't like to hear tax so we fixed that honey I'm still trying to figure out if your business is making a profit you you know what a profit is yes I know what a profit is it's your taxable income on the business yes on $50,000 did you have to

pay any taxes no because then you lost money on $50,000 worth of Revenue with with what

my wife paid in on on her check well here's what you your wife your wife check's got nothing to do with your business's profitability you need to hire someone to run your books yeah you need you need to sit down with a bookkeeper and learn how to do a set of books that's the next you you don't even have any idea if you're making a profit because a profit is your gross revenues minus the expenses associated with the business equals profit and I'm

not sure you made a profit on 50 Grand so I'm not sure you're making a profit on 100 Grand thus I think you're trying to raise kids on 70 grand actual Revenue which is your your

actual other income not business related income and yeah you're not going to pay it off in a year doing that so we need to figure out out whether this calculations right to tell you if my advice was bogus but I had bad information from you m even still they're still going to have to walk through a debt snowball and if the business is not making money they're going to have to find more money coming in yeah in order to make

this happen fast with eight kids you need to quit running getting a master's degree to run a business it is profit not making money yeah that's that's losing money at that

point yeah it's already losing money probably I can't tell can't tell cuz he doesn't know but anyway yeah get to the bottom of figure out if you're making a profit or not and if you're expanding that cuz you definitely increased your revenues but I'm not sure you increased your profits cuz if you lose 25 cents of watermelon you don't just get a bigger truck that's not how this works so

um all right uh then based on all of that what would I do yeah I might pay off the car first and let the student loans set to the side for a minute at least get rid of one of the dad gun payments out of your type budget but I I can't tell what your budget is so it's really hard to tell you if it's worth doing that if you truly made a profit of 100,000 which I think we've established you didn't um then you had $170,000

actual household income then I would go back to my original thing and say shut up and pay off the loans in a year or 14 months if 79,000 should go away but I don't think that's the numbers so I think it changed in the middle of the conversation it did this is the Ramsey

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Show

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Ramsey

[Music] Jade washaw Ramsey personality open phones at 8825 5225 Jade is my co-host today by the way

folks uh I do a show called The entree leadership podcast where I take calls on small business and we talk about the five stages of business and what it takes to level up in those five stages the six drivers that do that we've got a whole system for teaching small businesses to grow and run it's the Playbook the book entree leadership is a number one best seller it's

the Playbook that we've used to run Ramsey and we've grown it in 30 years from a card table in my living room to about a $300 million company so we'll walk you through this stuff and when you're at that beginning stage is a called a treadmill operator when it's just you

and all the revenue and all the production counts on you you kind of just own your job at that point when you're a small business person and you're doing doing all the work and um

you know and the revenue comes in because of you the production comes in because of you all that kind of stuff it's a one or two maybe a three-man lady show whatever there uh that's the normal way everyone starts but those are the stages that you have to get things in place like a good set of accounting books a good set of books uh to where you know what's happening with your money

if you do not make the money behave and those of you in the construction world the remodeling world you do job costing and you know which each job is profitable so you learn to do your estimating properly you you know you set up you know can I afford to hire someone well you have to can I afford to buy a piece of equipment or can I afford to rent

another space uh you have to be able to take look at your numbers and see if you have a profit to be able to do that because a business that doesn't make a profit is called a hobby it's kind of a harsh hobby actually cuz you're delusional and I've done it accidentally a time or two are do you run a nod for profit not intentionally but there's a time or two that

I almost have yeah so uh but yeah that's a uh you know so if you want to learn more onree leadership is the is one of the top business and Leadership podcasts out there you can join me I do it once a week and it's on the Ramsey networks and we would love to have you join us and check out the whole entree leadership brand we've got events

you can come to uh we've got a whole uh subscription process where we coach you called Elite and so all of that falls into that bucket for that our last caller uh Jeff is in Cleveland Ohio hi Jeff welcome to the Ramsey show Hello thank you very much for taking my call I really appreciate it sure what's up um I'm 52

years old my wife is 51 and a couple years ago she was diagnosed with a form of dementia um so we are TR navigating that

um as far as our financials go we have a

will a financial power of attorney healthc care power attorney a living will in place good um she's no longer on the de of the house but she has lifetime access to the residence through the will um she has no

property or any bank accounts in her name at all we have our six month emergency fund why did you take everything out of her name uh that's what the attorney had said for what I I

uh because she because she might misuse them if she if her dementia is Advanced uh it might be for medicare or

Medicare I'm not sure Medicaid is for poor people that's welfare yeah it only works no that won't

work okay um okay and so you were doing

real good you got all the documentation in place and uh how much do you have in

Investments uh as far as uh our Roth we

have 340 and as far as my workplace 401K

of 95,000 um within the last couple months

probably maybe three months uh I stopped contributing to my 401k and my RW so I could pile up money and a couple weeks ago I paid off my house good for you really really good so we're so we're on step seven um which kind of brings me to my question um with Ohio and

Medicaid uh the spouse can have up to $140,000 in assets except if you put the Roth IRAs

in payout status in an rmd payout status

those are not counted as assets so hey Hey heyy listen yeah

um you're you're trying to figure out a way to put your white you didn't mean to

but you're trying to figure out a way to put your wife in a welfare nursing home oh Medicaid Medicaid is Medicaid is

welfare you don't want to for po it's for poor people and you don't need to do that okay and and the guidelines are there to keep it from people that are only poor people putting people in those nursing homes okay okay and you're not poor people you can take care of your wife man I'm so sorry you're facing this but you've done a great job with money and you're in a position to love your wife well yeah yeah um just want to get

everything that I can out of the way so I know but but but the the goal the goal is to take care of her the goal is not to put her in a Medicaid nursing home right right let's change let's change the goal and you evidently make good money what do you make uh I make about 73 a year you've done a really good job on 73 dude is she still working oh no

she she's on uh Medicare she's not able to work or drive no okay so it's advancing then yeah I'm so sorry I'm sorry man

that's tough so where where are we today does she know everyone still or what how far progress um we have uh we have appointments every

six months uh last appointment you know the doctor was able to notice some decline uh she'll go through some more testing in another six months um but she is able you know she is at home um she knows you oh yeah yeah okay do

you not but you're but you're noticing

deterioration you know it varies some days are better than others always yeah yeah all right

um okay you're you're right to do what you've done every single thing you've done I agree with I think you've done a wonderful job sir you're a good man okay and I and I would I would agree with your last part of your financial moves to pile up cash and pile up cash and pile up cash and the next stage that is

fairly inexpensive compared to nursing home is in home care yeah okay and so if you can pile up

another hundred grand before you need in home care you probably have that

earmarked then to take care of her for

uh to pay for you know a nurse or help

of some kind uh of some level of professional to come in and help you and there may be a few days at the end of

life that that she will have to have care there Beyond in home but maybe not

maybe not um I can tell you this okay

Sharon and I have got U we're multi-millionaires and so I'm 63 I do not have nursing home insurance I'm a multi-millionaire I I will be at home I can afford full-time care for my

wife if something happens to her and you can too because you've done such a good job um but you're catching it way earlier but I mean by the time if something happens to Sharon and she's at home I can provide all the services of a nursing home privately with a private freaking Butler okay and it's still less

expensive than a nursing home mhm but I've just got that option and you've just about got yourself in that position and in a very heartbreaking situation you have been very um intentional and

wise I'm so proud of you well thank you i' I've just followed your principles well you you you You' had a you had an extra um grenade thrown in the middle of it

and so uh and it throws you off kilter

but you you know only if you are

completely broke if listen if you go visit a Medicaid nursing home and you go visit a private Care Nursing Home that you pay for you'll see what I'm talking about okay there there are a few of them that are excellent but it's government housing yeah versus private residence okay that's the I mean it it's it's it's welfare it's what for it's okay I'm not mad I'm not talking down my nose at somebody or something like that but if you've got the means your job is not to try to to dodge using your money

your job is to use your money because that's what is forced to take care of her yeah I think he's done a great job job wow in it's such a difficult situation they're they're so young early 50s man that's tough yeah and early

onset has a long lifespan it does so um

potten potentially so um yeah this could be a decade yeah but thankfully he did

set himself up paid for mortgage he's

been investing he couldn't have done any better very wise very wise

heartbreaking this is the ramsy show

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsy solutions you can drop in and have free homemade chocolate chip cookies and coffee anytime want we do this show from 1: to 4: central Time Monday through Friday it's completely free to come in and watch ugly paint dry on the wall no we're here it's fine it's fine very we're very entertaining so you don't want to miss

it there's always 50 to 200 folks sitting out here there's a museum or whatever you call it a timeline of the everything that's happened around here it's fun to visit the lobby and have an experience as a part of your Nashville visit we'd love to have you in the lobby also is a stage right in front

of our windows we call it the debt free stage on on it is David and Lisa hey guys how are you good how are you better than I deserve welcome where do you live we live in Austin area little town called Liberty Hill oh yeah fun welcome to Nashville good to have you guys so how much debt have you paid off paid off almost $300,000 or right at $300,000 wow good for you and how long did that take real slow five years ago

took about five years to get rid of it and your range of income during that time uh we started at 125,000 and we ended last year at 360

wow what do yall do for a living uh my

wife is retired now those the agreement of paying off the house hey but um I do

s I'm 100% commission salesperson in the hbac industry my commercial hbac oh yeah

way to go man amazing so your house is gone and paid off house is gone and paid off we looking at weird people wow what's the house worth um 500

all nice how much is in your Investments uh the last year has hurt us

a little bit but right around 400 so you're right out a million yeah we're right there way to go baby steps millionaires paid for house how old are you I'm 41 I'm 42 all right that feels

good yeah how's it feel to not have a payment in the world nice it's nice it

definitely feels special so we feel like we've been blessed and we don't feel like we deserve what we have well you do deserve it but we're better than we deserve yeah there we go wow so was it only the house or was there other debt included in the 300,000 we had 242,000

on the house and then we had about 50,000 in cars and then we had crit the rest was credit cards so we did the credit card we did the snowball got credit cards first and then we actually we traded some cars we did some things to get rid of that debt and then and then we just worked on the house um we actually paid 192,000 in the last 16

months wow You' been making serious money Lisa what did you do before you retired I've worked as a receptionist I worked as a school as a par professional for 5 years okay and you said I'm in but

when we're done I'm done yes yes I'm not

mad at that I like it yeah want to focus on our daughter Claire who's here with us to today and well it gives you a reason to push forward like that that's excellent now you got now you're just an old retired person at 42 had your reward at the end I love that yeah so what else are you planning to do I mean you've got you don't have a payment in

the world is there a trip is there something fun that you're going to do to celebrate this is kind of our trip we kind of no you got to do better than that we got we we got was cool but you got to do better well we we came in s Saturday to do this and then we're going to go to Nashville till next weekend this was kind of our whole like

we wanted to do this I've been a couple of times on business but they've never been so it's something that we wanted to do together oh we love the area so we're going to we're going to head into Nashville tonight and stay till Saturday yep oh good that's fun you'll have a blast you'll have a blast thank you guys no we appreciate you I mean like I said

we uh one of the things that we find interesting is I have a degree in history and I fell into hbac and just never got out and we feel like God has a plan for us because we should never have done what we've done not with uh I

wanted to be a teacher and never got to do it so I uh fell into HVAC sales and

never got out so but they all you know

doesn't always work out the way we plan so okay so how did you originally get connected with us in this process um I've done FPU through church a few times and we taught it once at our house during covid and everything and we saw you when you came to Austin couple years ago you come Austin a couple times actually I have a constant reminder of a key chain with your yeah yeah live like no one else yeah

so we have a constant reminder um but it's something that you know we've we've supported and we love and yeah we have family that my dad you know we grew up like in debt all the time and my dad's running the program now we're running the program my brother just sold some houses to pay off his debt and get stuff so we've got the family is in a better place

because you know we're all following you now changing your family tree absolutely all the limbs that's what we're trying to we're trying to do lead by example right yeah well done very well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of Deb is I mean you're debt free in your 40s house and everything baby steps millionaires pretty impressive just commitment being on the same page

you know we've sacrificed a lot and said no to a lot of things but what was the deepest cut on the sacrifice the thing you remember that was the biggest ouchie I mean probably vacations just

and family stuff we used to do a lot of Barbecues in the summer times and during football season where we'd have people and we kind of just cut it all off CU it got real expensive oh yeah you know doing it every weekend it starts up real fast so we we made a lot of sacrifices where we were those crazy people where we just weren't doing a lot of fun

and we were trying to do little day trips here in there instead of like big vacations and we we've become professionals at having breakfast for dinner at least twice a week and we've continued that so I was going to say breakfast for dinner is that really a sacrifice cuz that's that's legitimate it's a sacrifice for them now but now all now all that stops no we well no

I

mean I mean if you want to do it you can do it but the breakfast on your I mean it says on your keychain live like no one else so later you can live like no one else and give like no one else want you to enjoy this now yeah and we plan to and it's it's just something that's hard to break when you've been doing it for five years

I know but it's football season dude get the barbecue going get the barbecue going man get it back going again it's time you did you did a good job You've Won you sacrificed to win now enjoy the winnings that's right well done proud of you guys very good what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you told me that right you said commitment

and sacrifice but I didn't let I didn't let David answer yeah so the hardest thing for me is finding contentment I know Rachel talks about it all the time and my wife tells me all the time it's just finding we we've worked together really well but the budget is the biggest thing um you always say to let the other person you know I'm the one that controls

the budget but I've always given her you know she's always looked it over and made some change I forced her to make a change every single time so that she was committed to the process good um but working together through the whole thing I mean I couldn't have done it without them I mean the process of you know I

kind of bribed her a little bit with the retirement thing as soon as we get it done you can retire but in reality I think she just gave you her terms yes well I don't think you bried her at all this is this is what it takes to get me in yeah this is what it takes to get where we want to be so good we're excited about

it Go terms of surrender well done very well done all right you guys excellent job hey we've got the live and give box for you uh the baby steps millionaires you made it there or almost so close we're calling it and depending on whether the market goes up today or tomorrow there you go and a Total Money Makeover book to give away to someone and a Financial Peace University membership to give away while you're continuing to lead classes thank

you for leading the classes it makes a big difference people go to those classes as you know their life gets changed yeah and uh you got it's because of people like you coordinating so thank you for being a coordinator we really really appreciate it and you're a perfect example too I know right we appreciate everything you do yes well God bless y'all all right David and Lisa

and Claire Austin Texas area 300,000 paid off house and everything weird people baby steps millionaires did it in 5 years making 125 up to now 360 count it down let's

hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're debt

free

yeah 11 it

yes man oh man oh

man hey those two leaned in they sure did pretty incredible the whole family

that's that's that's well done well played this is the Ramsey

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d Wasa Ramsey personality is my co-host Today podcast

reviews five stars the J rant on the

student loans was powerful she really painted the depth of the problem and the hurt that can come from them the best rant I've heard in months it should be required listening to every semester of high school and college way to go Jade a jade rant a jade rant there you go have you uh have you previously named that or um I think they got it from the Dave rant oh I think it's a subsidiary okay

subid holy own subsidiary okay uh I

drive every morning as an Uber lift driver in New York City I listen the podcast with my passengers some don't pay any attention but those that do listen ask and become interested I share my experience and my baby steps that I'm

at and I really enjoy getting compliments from the other Ramsey followers wow that get into the C get into Uber yeah uh glad I'm not the only listener in New York City well I'm I love that I'm glad you're not too but I'm glad both you found each other no I'm kidding there's a bunch da that's how I found you if somebody had you on the car radio my brother had you on the car radio well there you go forced forced listening there you go Lara's in Sarasota hi Laura welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi Dave how are you better than we

deserve what's up so I have a question we're paying off

the L of our debt I have about 66,000 on my car I just want to know do you think I should be able to get my nails done while I do that I am unqualified to answer this question as I am to answer can I get my hair done when you uh do this so however Jade is sitting next to me with fluorescent Nails she is qualified ah so what Sam

and I did when we were paying off our debt is we kind of I I did not get my nails done and every so often I was able to get my hair done so it was a trade-off because it can get expensive if you're going every two weeks and you're doing the hair thing and you're doing I don't know what you're getting your eyebrows you know whatever done

it get another thing I'm inexperienced at da you don't do you don't wax a whole bunch of these things I don't know anything about so the point is it's a lot of grooming it can get expensive um some of it it's like yeah you need somebody to cut your hair every now and then or you need you know whatever that is but Nails truly is one of those

things that it is cost to get your nails done Laura it's about $50 each time so and

how often how often would this come

up it's every two weeks was right on the

hammer y okay all right and so I I you

know I grew up redneck hillbilly so I don't know anything about this but when I was growing up people did their own Nails is that a possibility see I work in the professional uh industry and I have

really brittle nails and so when I don't have them done I they look gross and disgusting I say I wasn't say disgusting I said I mean like I mean my my little sister and like they would paint stuff on there do y'all still do that I mean do humans do that do them themselves ever no every all the women are shaking their head now yout like I'm from

another planet you can paint them but she wants an application that's going to make them hard so that they don't break and I will say um Laura you can you can buy the dip powder and you can do those yourself and it is a lot less expensive I don't do it but I have friends that do it and that might be you do it when you weren't getting your nails done no

because I but yours weren't brittle no they weren't brittle or I'm learning so much today you can even buy the jar of

like the hard gel that you can polish on and so that's that'll save your nails without you having to get them done where is Rachel Cruz when I need I feel your pain though look I feel her pain is that's a sacrifice but it's only temporary what's your household income we make about 200,000 and the

66,000 on the car is the only thing we have left but who whose car is it yours

or it's mine sell the car and yeah we

are so we are that's our plan we're gonna sell the car obviously we're upside down on it so we're gonna have we're GNA take our three to six months and pay off the difference and then I'll get like a $20,000 car and we'll pay that off in about three to four months and then we'll pay the house off wait wait a minute how much do you have in savings we have about 15,000 in savings

and that pays off the difference when you sell the car but then you were going to go finance a $20,000

car yes no I don't think I would do

that

wow okay so here here's the thing

um I mean we had a lot of fun with your nail question and it's fine to talk about 100 bucks here you make $200,000 a year you got other problems than a 100 bucks so are how How Deeply do youall I

mean it feels like he cut your nails and cut your nail budget back and he's still buying like tools and stuff at Home Depot or something I don't know it where in the flip is 200,000 going that we can't pay 66 off minus 15 which is 51 in

about four or five months why don't you pay this car off our our house payment is about 3,100

a month because we bought at the height that should be fine okay she have $36,000 a year going out on a house payment you make 200 mhm um yeah I guess that's a good question maybe we need to sit down do you do a

budget we are going to start doing a

budget okay you don't cut you don't cut your nails out until you guys get the rest of this fixed yeah when you sit down and do a budget that's going to reveal the budget is like bloodwork it reveals everything going on where the money's going where the problem is and so when you sit down do that you're going to realize oh I've got bigger fish to yeah nails

if you want to cut that that's fine but you're going to see all the little things that's making this difficult here here's the thing if you guys have gone through your budget together with a fine tooth comb and you've slam dunked your $200,000 income towards 51,000 because

you got 15,000 in the bank to throw at this um I think you're going to find a lot more opportunities to get your uh get your goals hit very quickly than your nails and the fact that your nails were set over to the side as the issue while you guys still haven't done the budget um kind of makes me want to fuss

at him because he has you guys got to get in there together and he's got to C

I'm just telling you there's some crap he's doing that's more than those stupid nails when you get in the budget you're gonna find it yeah yeah there's there's something he's that he's got that's his little pet thing and he didn't want to give up the gym membership while he's making you cut your na cut cut out the nails all that I I only know this because I'm the guy that did that kind of stuff so um but yeah I think when you

both have a very clear print out of

what's going on like Jade said the blood work is done you get your every dollar budget both of you are looking at it both of you say we're willing to cut deeply and then we're not going to cut out $100 a month for this or we are going to cut out $100 a month because it's only for five months yeah I'll do them myself for 5 months

but you're giving that over there up and we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation and we're not doing this and we're not doing that and we're not doing this if I'm giving up the nails that's a fair statement are you guys putting a lot into retirement yeah so we actually did complete dat the Financial Peace University uh during the co time and

we paid off all of our debt and then we made a stupid decision we bought a stupid car and then we bought another stupid car and we don't have piece anymore so we're getting back into FCU and you've still got your retirement coming out mhm yeah and my guess is it's

quite a bit it's not just 15 is it it's not $50 no it's more than that I rest my case there you go okay get back on the detailed scorched Earth baby step two budget the two of you together stop your retirement use all non-retirement funding to clear this car up you're right it was a stupid decision yes you fell off the wagon yes you're getting back on

the wagon but that's not we don't go straight to the you can't get your nails done while I put 15 % into retirement that's right thank you hello he he's not following our system okay we're telling you to stop everything and get this done and then I may cut the nails too not cut the nails cut the nail

uh expenditure treatment out uh whatever the flip you call it and um anyway but that's more symbolic with your income that you've gotten everything else going than it is actual yeah does that make sense and sometimes because you're changing Behavior symbolic things symbolic sacrifices are

valuable okay I remember I had a old boy from the country at Financial Peace University one time he came in big old guy and his wife was sitting in a small group crying and she said I love my husband so much he just sold his knife collection it was like his prize thing

yeah meant a lot to but he said my wife and my kids's future means more than those knives he said 1,100 bucks it didn't really matter cuz they had $60,000 in debt but it was it was symbolic I'm that he's putting the family before meoo this is the ramsy

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show Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes download the Ramsey Network app

in your favorite app store today

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[Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 8825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money Derek is in Arkansas and starts off this hour hey Derek what's up hey Derek or sorry hey Dave um uh

thank you for taking my call um I'll get right to the point my wife just wrote a New York Times bestselling book um that released less than a month ago um we've already started to see some income from that uh most recently a check for $50,000 that came in on the the date of the release um and then I'm a longtime listener first-time caller uh listen ever since

I was a missionary in Nepal um my supervisors gave me your materials over 10 years ago and just appreciate what you do so my wife and I U were talking about this and she recently uh got a message from Rachel Cruz who reached out to her to my wife and um and

just said she' read the book and uh so my wife and I thought well you know we really appreciate you guys and the principles that you stand for so I wanted to um just call in and see what your thoughts were about what we should do with um some of the income that we're getting I've already maxed up my retirement in my job um we're debt free

um we've already maxed out a raw ir raay and didn't know if we should open a a brokerage account um just with an S&P

index um S&P 500 Index Fund so the house

is paid off yes sir yes sir you're 100% debt free and everything that's correct way to go dude how old are y'all I'm 34 my wife is 32 so this so

this uh 50,000 on the book is spare change right now it's you're over and above the baby steps well we're on baby steps I guess it would be five and seven um we've got three boys uh ages one to eight so um

okay so you might want to use some of the 50 for Education you're saying correct have thought about that U didn't know if we should put a certain percentage of that toward kids college and then uh some toward a an index fund

just to keep some liquid cash because if we did move we would want to pay cash for a house so if there was how much is in your emergency fund uh about $50,000 right now not

counting the book deal what's your normal household income uh fluctuates irregular um I just

graduated graduated from law school and uh started Prosecuting r year so uh we

had uh with partial year work last year about uh 65 uh looking at about 150 this

year and about 85 next year and that's just my income plus a little bit of income in addition to B my wife brings in from social media things like that yeah well done well played yeah I think you got it down it's exactly what I would do with it I would if it were me and I had that money in your shoes I'd probably break it into thirds

and give save spend it I'd give some of it I'd save a third you know for your college fund or whatever you have set up 529s and then I'd come up with something you guys want to do maybe you're saving for a trip maybe it's you know a vehicle you're saving for whatever that spinage that you're wanting and I'd break it up like that or maybe in fourths since you've got two kids

you put a quarter for each of them for Education you think just opening one account and then um for 529 from from

Child correct for I would put a little in I'd open three I'd put a little in each of their names oh it's three kids I'm sorry I said too but yeah and I the reason I do that Derek is just so I can tell them over and over that this is their college fund which presupposes that they're going to college and then if we want to change that as

they get later in life I can not force it on them but I just want to brainwash them that continuous learning throughout your life is a brilliant idea like you went back to law school after the mission field okay so continuous learning after after you know the last thing you read That's non-fiction after house school is nothing then you're not going to grow in life so you adding learning whatever

it is whether it's for your education or not uh isn't there so Rachel reached out

to your wife about her New York Times bestselling book so uh your wife is

Jill yes Jill dug duer now Dillard yeah

yeah counting the cost is the book right

yeah okay all right so the Jill Dugger book yeah because Rachel and I were talking about the other day and uh cuz the book is impressive and Rachel was saying she was going to try to get her on the show or at least do some kind of social media collab with her yeah okay

well I didn't know about that but that's probably why she reached out to her yeah because we were both she and I were talking about your old story and your life and everything um and um because

I'm I'm uh of course old and I remember all that stuff uh from a thousand years ago uh the whole goth thing and all that stuff and then it's very interesting it's very interesting and so um and and then to see what you guys have done as a couple is impressive but you guys are really it's very cool at least the outside looking in I I don't know you personally obviously but um well now I have to read the book yeah you do yeah

what' you say it was called It's called counting the cost a lot of it really goes into what

especially John deloney goes into and his his influence recently has helped us as a couple so appreciate this wonderful thing of boundaries and forgiveness correct and not you know and not not don't spend your whole life being defined by bitterness and so on so yeah it's pretty cool and you you're I didn't know the part about you going back to law school that's very impressive good for you thank you so well done dude

decided to go back to law school through through all of this and and the book just came out so it hit the times in the last few weeks right right about two weeks ago hit the times congratulations came on the 12 thank you yeah that's that's impressive yeah cuz the times is not not known for putting Christians on the on their list so um they kind of known for not doing it actually but yeah but right that's

I'm glad you did that's awesome man very good very good yeah so I'm with Jade I would go thirds uh throw some at the kids to make sure we got the college thing beefed up a little you're going to have enough income to make sure they're okay on educational choices later in life anyway you're going to be fine um and enjoy some of it and be generous with some of

it I'm with her give save spin give save spin love that very cool that's exciting very cool how do you get on the New York Times best like how does that work uh it's up to them has nothing to do with actual numbers sales it's not sales no it's an editorial list so they decide so like it's not off it's not unusual for one of our books to out sell their number one yeah by by five to one well that's what

I know that's what yeah that's pretty standard yeah basically my rule is New York time sucks so well now they're not going to put you on the list they were not going to put me on anyway I've said they suck for a long time I've been on there a couple times been there done that didn't help me a bit didn't change anything no one ever no one ever sent me a check cuz

I was a New York Times bestseller not once uh but but because I had a bestseller I've gotten a lot of checks because that means we sold an actual number of books that's a different thing that's what counts I guess but I'm glad they got on I'm not being not being jealous of them I'm happy young couple with a brand new book and and the Apparently I haven't read

it but apparently the book is good richel was talking about it so good stuff that's fun you never know never who's in our audience I know this is the ramsy

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America open phones at 8825

5225 Riley's in Raleigh North Carolina hi Riley welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave hi Jay how you doing great what's up so uh I am

considering selling my condo and because

I've got some neighbors that I am not too happy with and the housing market is expensive in the area so I'm considering selling my condo moving into an apartment and using the money I make from selling my condo to pay off my student loans and if I did that I would have no debt and I'm just as to whether

or not that is a good

choice so you want to sell your condo your neighbors are kind of annoying you don't necessarily want to be paying for this anyway how much student loan debt do you have it's about 88,000 what will

your condos sell for um I think it would sell for uh around 260 or 270 so My Equity would be

around around $100,000 okay so you owe

around 160 or 170 okay okay and what do you make yeah yeah uh I make about 95

and how old are you uh 32 and you're

single correct okay how long have you

had the condo um just about exactly three years

what's wrong with the neighbors um so they are renters they're

they're below me and um it's been a

plethora of issues over the course of the years different different bad rers

in that same unit over the course of three years uh smoking uh really loud

dogs that are left on their porch I live above them the dogs that are under me barking waking me up all night and and uh on top of that and the the owner of the unit and the HOA are not helpful do you think you'd want it I'm just wondering why is the HOA not

helpful they basically just don't do anything yeah you make complaints and they um you know it's it's a very

laidback HOA I would say which I guess in some ways could be good but in in my circumstance it's you know not helpful yeah I okay there's a couple things number one if you want to do your plan that's fine um sometimes there's a uh um sometimes

there's a time to leave and um I'm not

selling something that I own because of renters and an HOA that won't do its job

I'm going to start jacking some people up mhm like if the HOA got a letter from your attorney that said we're getting ready to sue you guys for violate for not doing your job which is making the rental units have renters that freaking

behave that's like the hoa's job in a condo they don't do much else that's

what you're paying for yeah correct time for Barney F to get his one bullet out

which is always who runs the HOA right

yeah you're right is there anything else about the condo that would make you want to leave other than the neighbors um you know I would

like to you know if if it was more affordable I would like to purchase a home that the the situation is I bought

my condo in 2020 and the interest rates were really low so I've got a very cheap cond you know it's cheap to live there right now I'm paying around 1,00 total with the HS whereas if I want to buy even a small home in the area you know the interest rates are now around 7% so I don't have really a cheap I don't have an equivalent option right um and you

know is a small condo it's it's a place I would not live in you know for a long time anyway it's okay to sell Jake I'll tell you the other problem you're going to run into when you sell it the real estate agent that comes over to list it is going to smell smoke and hear barking

dogs I know I am worried about that and they're going to they're going to say this is going to affect your buyer so these people have devalued your condo by their misbehavior yeah like it's not going to bring as much because people aren't going want to pay for a smoke infested dog barking bunch of crap well that's one reason that he needs to yeah you got to get this cleaned up yeah this HOA

yeah yeah they they really gonna have to stop it I mean it's it's ridiculous and it's frustrating because it's not like it's not 247 bad where you know I could

see an in where um because it's it's

what I've experienced where sometimes I'll have a week where not that bad and I feel like if there was somebody you know a buyer looking at it they might not notice that stuff but then there are times when it is bad where you know I could see both instances where a buyer could come in there at a bad time and say oh I'm not buying this and

I can the opposite to because I'm the one I witness both myself but you don't want to risk you don't want to you don't want to gamble that you know the the open house or you know on the week in the open houses is the the weekend they're throwing a rager call here's what you can do call the um our jump on line at Ramsey solutions.com find one of our real estate Professionals in

the area that we endorse that are ramsy trusted tell them when they come over to look to call the HOA and say we're getting ready to put this on the market and if the renter downstairs isn't behaving I'm going to advise my client to sue your butt off and let the realtor play the heavy and see if we can straighten these renters up for 30 days and get

this thing sold yeah yeah and then move I I just I just have trouble letting these people run me off without

that's it's exactly how I feel yeah I feel like I don't like them controlling my life you I don't you know because I feel like I made a good purchase and you know I have it's kind of what an HOA is for it's so that people you know if you want to be a if you want to raise hell and throw parties and have barking dogs you're supposed to go out in

the country not in a condo project hello I mean this is not it's not rocket surgery here people yeah all right wow amazing I know right yeah that that's what I would do I think you put it on the market and let the real estate agent call the HOA and uh tell them to um tell tell them to be real tough on them and uh to threaten them uh that

they I want this crap straightened up seriously I'm getting ready to put this house on the market and if there's condo on the market and if this unit doesn't sell or it sells for Less because of smoking dogs I'm coming after y'all for the difference in the Lost value because you didn't manage the property like your like your job is

yes why is that these HOAs man they're usually they dri I hate them they drive me nuts I live in one that drives me nuts it's just God have you ever been on the board of one no can I tell you that one time were you

were I'm G to blame it on Sam Sam was we

were but it was really Sam he was trying to make a difference and they did a while found out this yeah no it's just

God I I should I'm the guy that ought to be on a piece of ground somewhere middle nowhere but I'd be living by myself because my wife ain't going to live there so I'm stuck with these choices in my life you so I'm I'm stuck worse than

Riley is I mean it's you know so yeah

Riley's in a pretty bad way yeah it's bad sell it get you an apartment then immediately start saving and get back in the real estate market as quickly as possibly can Riley let's not let this be a reason you don't own a piece of property 2 years from now so many people

are struggling with that his main thought though which is I bought I have such a low interest rate and I'm stuck and now I'm just I have L people are waiting on rates to come down to move because of that I know and I got bad news for you it's going to be a while boys and girls and while you're waiting house prices are going to go up they are

yes they are we told you that this time last year and what we predicted is exactly come true yeah we told you in a real estate live stream that we did last year at this time that rates were that house prices were going to go up about 7% in the year 2023 and that's what they're trending right now I mean I know people who are sitting on

the money they could buy but they're just like uh it like grosses them out no like to have the right down payment but the interest rates are just grow grossing them out I'm like if you got a high interest rate when the rates come down just refinance exactly or better than that pay the stupid thing off and get rid of the interest rate you know I mean

there there's a couple ways around this so yeah it it's this trying to time this

stuff but it's a generation that's never seen High interest rates and this these are not high interest rates by the way you need to talk about this more often Dave 1982 when I got out of college they were 18% 177% fixed rate in 84 they were

down to 14% fixed rate now that's high

and so that's back when the dinosaurs roam the Earth you Boomer yeah I know I know I know that works right but U but I also know what high is cuz high is all relative six is high if you've been used to three that's right it's relative there you go this is the Ramsey

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Show

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thanks for joining us America reminder the money and marriage getaway October 19th and 21st is just a few days away

you and your spouse will be equipped with tools to cast a vision for your family set goals create a life you both love uh you will have the undistracted

time to disconnect from everyday life and reconnect with your spouse interactive sessions and uh all kinds of sessions with Rachel Cruz Dr John deloney on money communication boundaries intimacy

tickets are $799 for this multi-day event it's here on the Ramsey campus if you're out of debt you got room in the budget this is a must do the money and marriage getaway a very luxurious weekend here on the Ramsey campus um for

couples coming up October 19th through

the 21st check it out Ramsey solutions.com events to get your tickets

now on the debt free stage in the headquarters ERS solution of Ramsey Solutions here in the lobby uh Joshua and Becca are with us hey guys how are you good how are you better than I deserve welcome where are you from We're from Indianapolis Indiana all right right how much have you paid off how much debt $50,000 woohoo 50k and how

long did this take seven months all right wow Jack and your range of income during that time 83,000 83 what do you all do for a living I'm a personal fitness coach mhm and I work at a church a local church oh wonderful what kind of debt was of 50k student loans all right whose student loans yours or hers mine yours all right how long you'all been married a little over a year ah

so we get married and then we pay off Joshua student loans yes first order of business yep tell me the story what happened here yeah so I grew up uh and my dad was a big big fan of yours and so he put that in us uh since we were little growing up and uh so when I met Joshua and he was like I have student debt

I was like oh no and so if you

weren't cute that'd be a deal breaker I know but he is so it worked um but and so then we just like talked about it and I actually like gave him your book and he started reading it and um applying it and so I knew that he like had the ability like he wanted to do this as well uh and so then well he's a personal trainer for god sakes discipline is his middle name right right yeah uh

and so then he got the app the uh every dollar app and started working that and making his own budget and I remember he texted me one day he was like I made a budget he like look at it I was like this is awesome look at it yeah so you're a keeper I know I was like that's awesome so um we made the budget and then um decided

when we got married that uh my father had like saved up money and had make us like a wedding fund and so we were like I don't really want a super big fancy wedding and I'd rather like not have a lot of debt so we did we got married in my parents front yard and it was beautiful and awesome uh and then we took the remainder of

it and then my savings uh and then we uh he paid his savings and we paid it off so wow wow boom just like that I mean you attacked it we did yeah look at you that's a sacrifice when you know there's money that you can have this big wedding a big party and you say no this is more important that's one day this is the rest of our life yeah exactly

and I think too just um growing up like being Believers and just like knowing that Christ sacrificed for us of just that like he paid our Eternal debt and so like At first I was like I don't want to give him like my money but then it's like no we're married like we're one and like this is what Christ has done for us and so to be able to like combine that

and like be truly one and like to pay off that debt and was really really cool so Joshua she comes at you with all this stuff did you go like whoa I mean at first it was a different approach uh so I mean my my parents did Financial

Peace growing up I have a special needs brother so you know the whole financial situation was a little bit different uh so to go from that you know to this is a completely different side of it you know my parents did help us along the way um but yeah I was like okay I got to do something here I got to step up if I'm going to be a husband

I need to be a leader and so I was like I got to make change look at that how old are you too I'm 27 she's 26 way to go way to go amazing well you leaned in knocked it out fast and that's got to feel good you got to feel strong oh yeah both of you I mean you did grown up stuff here I know right was very very difficult

I mean exciting be Becca's uh not a princess she's like a woman no she's a woman all right thank you she's got she had a full agenda and a full plan and made sure it got executed that's there's not there's not yeah that's that's good stuff well done y'all very well done thank thank you okay now that you've done it uh you see the principles of the process

I mean you teach principles when you're teaching as a as a trainer right and uh you know we have principles that are guiding these baby steps are guiding this process what did you all observe that you tell other people here's what you do if you're going to get out of debt you got to do these three things or these four things what what was the thing you think of

I think one of the big things first off is just communication espe from two different financial backgrounds what that like and saying okay we're a couple now God said we're one so we got to figure out how we can do that to start off so definitely starting off with communication and then coming up with the plan and then figuring out exactly what we need to do with that plan

and what that step is going to take and making sacrifices so even though I was working as a personal trainer still have been you know I worked at Chick-fil-A for a little bit to earn a little extra income on top of that in the evenings and then uh before we got married paying off even car loans debt and stuff like that too and then going from there

and like okay like if we're going to attack this we're going to attack this and get it paid off cuz most people my age most friends are not in this position being in their 20s so we wanted to glorify God along the way but understand like we don't have to just be in debt and that's not the not the right way to do things not the plan

you had to feel like when the student loans started back with payments the other day that you dodged a bullet absolutely we did we were like watching it while we were paying it off and like okay they pushed it back more okay we got to go before they put in interest like we got to keep paying it and like I think that was the one good thing about

the co year honestly yeah we like thank you for that because I remember I submitted my first payment was $150 and then by the time we got married I was like oh we got huge payments here and then yeah about in April we were like oh we're debt free and it it felt weird it was but it was great we're like what the heck yeah just like that boom yeah wow

I love it if you want something different you have to do something different and you guys embraced that it was it's different right to give back some of your marriage money it's different fore when they're you know engaged to say you know when we get married some of my savings is going to go to pay off this debt like that that's all completely different from what culture might say

you know to work a second job in the evenings Chick-fil-A in the evenings so you guys really did sacrifice to win that's amazing yeah yep well done love it proud of you thank you I'm betting both sets of parents were bragging on you the whole way cheering you all oh yeah awes yeah that's great couple of financial peace babies one more intense than the other but there

we go I love it still very good good job you guys very well done your future I mean when you you can take any problem and set it in front of you too and you do exactly what you did here yeah you analyze the problem and say what must be true what have we got to do to get this done all right lean in next thing you know game on

and you'll have these things pop up from time to time hopefully this one will never pop up again but uh but you'll have other things as you go through your life and now you're equipped so that's the gift I mean the getting out of debt is powerful but the process that you use is even more powerful yeah so working together having a plan thank you to the every dollar app people well done well done good here's my budget look at

it I like that I sounded like that I did it best

text very good we've got the live and give box for you that's the baby steps millionaire book which is your next step on the journey to be able to live and give like no one else and then of course B The Total Money Makeover you can give that to someone else get them started Financial Peace University if you hadn't gone through it go through it together if you have give it to somebody and uh that's why we call it live and give so enjoy well done you guys congratulations

Heroes you're Heroes man that's powerful Joshua and Becca Indianapolis Indiana

50,000 paid off in 7 months been married 12 months did it making 83,000 count it down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're Deb

free that's how that's

done I love it who

man oh man if everybody could get it that quick Dave it'd be so much easier oh gosh yeah yeah that's uh but that's the good news about being second generation Financial Peace you know Financial Peace babies it's even if you got a if you're a little off you still can boom you hit it you know you know if you hit it it'll work it's like um yeah that's that's different hey you're doing an every dollar webinar tomorrow Tuesday at 11:30 that's right for those of

you listening totally free that is the uh 20th uh no it's not it's the 10th the 10th tomorrow at uh at

11:30 central time we're going to be doing a few others if you want to join the free every dooll webinar on how to do just what he did I did a budget so you'll be able to do it tomorrow right that's right and everydollar.com budgeting sign up with Jade for tomorrow or uh Jade later or Rachel Cruz or George camel we're doing them all through the fall here you're going to want to sign up and be part of that just like he did this is the Ramsey

Show

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our scripture of the day Romans 13:1 let every person be subject to the governing authorities for there is no Authority except from God and those that exist have been instituted by God Milton

Freedman said if you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand oh gosh sheesh

Nobel prizewinning Economist by the

way oh you gotta love it Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today

uh we are in the last day of Dr John

delon's Book Week launch uh we launched it one week ago tomorrow his new book is called building a non-anxious life and

it is the six daily habits uh that are

needed to do that to deal with anxiety to prepare for when anxious things happen your glass is full and you can deal with them and uh this is uh this is a lot of Neuroscience a lot of nerd speak all boiled down where normal people can read it like me and uh Dr

John this is a second book his first was a number one National bestseller um own your past change your future building a non-anxious life has already sold a bazillion copies in uh the pre-sale and in the first week thank you guys for the response to this we'll know for sure where we land on the list in a day or two but pretty much suspect

it'll be number one based on our based on our sales um and normal normal book business stuff but we'll see we'll see we've sold a bunch of them and you guys are we appreciate you thank you for picking it up that you're going to be glad you did it's worth every penny it's a great book ramseys solutions.com you can get it there you can get it anywhere great books are sold Amazon Barnes & Noble all of that building a non-anxious Life by Dr John deloney Britney's in

Phoenix hi Britney welcome to the Ramsey show thank you so much Dave sure what's

up so my husband and I are wondering if

we should sell our investment property to pay off of our debt all of our debt

okay uh do you like the investment

property I love it but we have a kid on

the way and so things are changing for us um and our income is going to significantly drop you're going to stay

home okay your your phone's breaking up like crazy um having trouble see if you can get somewhere where we can hear you but anyway so what do you

make um that we make about 125 125 what

do you make yeah I make uh 75 of

that okay what's the investment property

worth uh 200,000 and we take home uh we net

$1300 each month on it what does it what

do you owe on it um

we what do you owe on it it's free and clear we don't owe anything oh okay and what is your pro your personal residence mortgage is how much uh 345 currently okay and you you

have 145,000 other than this

um I'm sorry I I didn't okay you have

200 if you sell the rental you owe 345 you said pay off your house yeah do you have other money saved uh no we do not we' be paying off

our uh some of our other Consumer Debt student loans and medical bills that's $882,000 so um we would were hoping to

that L and then to the where did this where did this rental property come from how'd you end up with a paid for $200,000 house if you're this broke so um we actually we wrapped it

into the financing of our our home

oh so our primary residence is worth

$500,000 and this invested property is worth $200,000 so we've got mortgage and then $882,000

of other debt and we're wanting to sell the investment to pay um these the debt

consum loans and medical yes I would sell it yeah yeah I would sell it um you pay

off 82,000 in Consumer Debt you got a baby on the way you $345,000 mortgage

you're getting ready to be making $50,000 a year I'm not sure how you're paying for a $345,000 mortgage you may be selling your home too that's what I'm thinking um I don't think you can service that debt on 50 Grand unless they I'm not sure about it but unless they sold their existing house and moved into the rental and then had that one free and clear might go that way yeah

because I don't think you can I mean if if you quit you make 75 of the 125 he's got he's got $50,000 income paying a payment on yeah that's G to your payments got to be four grand anyway and yeah you're not going to make that your payment's going to be as much as his income mhm yeah that's not going to work hun they got to get out of their existing home you can't keep the house mhm you can't afford it so yeah we're

selling the wrong house uh you're moving into the paid for rental the good news is it's paid for or you're working yeah you got to decide but if you want to keep this house the one you live in you're working and you sell the rental and payoff if you if you're working you sell the rental and pay off all the other debt you can probably make it it's tight

then yeah but um but you can't make it you can't pay the payments on this and you pay down a little bit on the 345 and redo the loan at a higher interest rate you're not going to you're not going to net anything different so there's nothing happening here kid I'm sorry

yeah that that the house you bought you can't afford if you want to quit and stay home with a baby and either one's an okay Choice with me m uh personally

I'd move into the rental and stay home because that's your that's your heart's desire exactly I'd rather stay home than have the house the big house mhm uh the house you can't afford but you can't pay the payments on his income and if they are living in the $200,000 house paid for their income's freed up they can start stacking away money they're 100% free yeah there's more freedom there you get to stay home you have no debt that

would be my that'd be my solu and you start you know you start stacking cash and then if you want to move up in house in a few years you'll be able to do that with cash but right you cannot afford a payment on 345,000 making 50 Grand I'm

100% sure of that and there's not not any numbers you gave me here unless there's a piece that Britney didn't give me yeah that uh that changed that if there's a $200,000 laying somewhere else but I didn't hear that you did ask that because you said when she wanted to pay off the debt for the the their existing home you said do you have another 145 she said no

so yeah we have it no we have another 82 in consumer was our answer yeah that's it Jay's in Tampa hey Jay welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave and Jade can you guys hear me okay can yes better thank you how can we help thanks thanks for taking my call

okay so I I just I'm going to hit you with some numbers um I the main question is uh I want to know if we should use

the check that we're expecting from the car insurance I just got into a car accident a few days ago and you're get did you total it yes did you owe money on free and damage no free and clear we just paid it off okay what's it worth uh it's worth between 9 and 11 buy

another car with with it rather than yes cuz I was going to use it towards the IRS cuz they're breeding down our throats right now that could be different yeah that does change what do you owe the KGB for well uh before my wife and I got

married um how much is the

balance 91 almost 9,200 and you got

another car 9200 I have another car we

make 140 a year pay it off and save two

months and get your different car mhm pay off the IRS and then save like crazy get get those people out of your life yeah I until you said that until you said that I was real sure yeah like Jade said that's a game changer okay I thought so what I'm me squeeze in one more question how do you I know you normally say stop all 401K

contributions two I still do what if you

can use the 401K contributions to break even on your taxes no no no no you don't break break even on your taxes that's not how taxes work you don't break even tax deductions you save a quarter on the dollar you don't break even you put in $100 it saves you $25 on taxes you're broke you can't do that you need to get the stinking IRS paid off pile up some cash get

the emergency fund built make sure you get you another car purchase get all the debts cleared then build your emergency fund well you got one out of two not bad not bad Jade good show

today good show of the team in the booth excellent excellent calls coming in puts us hour the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ

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Jesus hey what's up guys it's Jade if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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## 181. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 27, 2023)


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live from the headquarters of Ramsey

Solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships George camel Ramsey

personality is my co-host today he's

also the co-host of smart money happy hour and the host of The George camel show very popular on YouTube both Ram

Network Productions and we'll be taking

your calls the phone number is

8825

5225 Brian starts this hour in St Louis

hey Brian welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey thanks for the call sure what's

up uh my wife and I are trying to build

a house um and we're discussing how much

we should have saved ahead of time I

would like to have a 100,000 saved and

she wants to start now we're at about 40,000 saved M okay and uh so she isn't

as concerned about the down payment as you are uh she's just excited to get

going more so than concerned about the

down payment which you are yeah so what

does the payment process look like for this build when is all the money

due uh well we haven't started anything

yet um and so I would like to save a

hundred hopefully get 200 out of our

house house and then maybe go 350 total

and then just have 50 left to finish up

when we're all done M what do you make

which we could what your hous so inome uh about about a hundred okay so you're

talking about a $350,000

build okay and you got 40 how long do it

take you to get to 100 if we want your way what was your goal uh a little over

a year mhm so we're not arguing about 60

we're arguing about a year right she want to go now you want

to go in a year cor okay

um which means that if we go her way you

end up with a $100,000 mortgage not a $50,000 mortgage yes or $110,000 mortgage to be

precise right am I doing all this correctly Brian yes okay how sure are you this

home is going to cost

350 uh not sure that's just the goal

that we'd like to keep under do you have a blueprint no we haven't started anything

do you have a builder we have nothing just discussions

you own the land uh we have family land set

aside okay uh sidebar before sidebar

before we keep going family land set aside needs means that there needs to be

a plat that is deeded to

you and and you have the right to sell

it someday if you all don't want to live there anymore otherwise don't do this

deal right you don't build your house on

Daddy's land or your house on a lot that

Daddy gave you off his land and he says

you can never sell it neither one of

those those are both deal Killers it

would be purchased okay and you would

own it oh wait a minute what does the land the land is part of the

350 yes okay and then you would have

full rights emotionally relationally

legally to sell it later if you want

to yes okay I don't I I've taken that

call a lot in the last 30 years someone

that's stuck in a piece of property because everybody's going to be mad if they sell their own house right don't do that all right now

all right back to the deal so the land

is how much uh 40,000 and that's included in

the 350 did you say or not included yes

okay all right we think but we you

really have nothing to base this on except square foot and you think you're going to build x square fet I I would

tell you this I'm in the middle of building a house right now um it took us

nine months from the time we decided we

wanted to to get a blueprint a builder

and a budget okay completed

completed I mean from day one and I've

done it before so I'm guessing uh that

you can start on the process now and it's probably going to take you close to a year then you'll have that 100 yeah or

not I mean you know it may take you nine months and then you split the difference right but I I think you can go ahead and

get started because here's what's going to happen when you start drawing this house and you actually start talking to builders and you actually start getting bids you're going to find out your numbers are wrong right or they change and I doubt

they change

down right you got to watch the scope

creep thing here yeah my fear is this

thing is double what you thought it was going to be and now we got to relook at is this the right next move or do we just buy a place yeah I think we got a

you got bigger issues than when when to

start okay you need to go you guys you

can start today on the get looking at

Builders and looking at Blueprints and

getting it dialed in and once all of

that's done if it's not been a year um

and you've got everything dialed in and you really can still do the numbers that

you come up with the real numbers not hopeful numbers um

then we can say all right I still don't want to start then and what I would recommend back to your original argument is just split the difference just you know instead of a year or starting now uh let's say six

months and by then but it believe me

it's going to be six months at least I don't think we're starting next week on this build anyway we're not we got some time we're not Builders Builders aren't

working as much right now so you probably can find one that'll give you

some attention that's because of the rates that's a good thing just slowed down a little bit very few specs going up uh if builders that are working are

doing customs and so very few home

starts on specs uh because the Market's

really slow with the high interest rates

um prices have held firm and have gone

up in most cases in depending on the

market but uh the build rate uh new home

starts are down way down way down and

specs have just about disappeared in most markets wow so which is not a bad

thing it's okay except that the in

except there's no freaking inventory but for for ran it's a good thing cuz he's probably going to get some good attention yeah versus Builder Builder

sub Builder and Subs are going to be available going a million miles an hour you don't want someone rushing through that home build well and you got 73 other clients instead of just you may be his prized client right now you know it's possible now on the financing side

how would you suggest Brian go through

with this because there's different ways when you're working with a builder to finance it well if it's 50,000 he

probably can go over at the credit union just get a loan simple if it's going to

be 100 110 150 then he's probably

looking at a formal construction loan

and he'll have to get an appraisal on the plan the Builder the the general

contractor obviously license will have to be shown uh to get the appraisal and

then that they'll do that to get and you'll have to get your approved for your permanent mortgage and they give you a letter called a takeout letter

which it means that they will be there to take out the construction loan at

completion the permanent mortgage will it'll convert over to a conventional and you can do all of that with Churchill Mortgage every bit of that um if you

want to but if you've got a little small loan like a 50,000 out of 400 or 50 out

of 350 you know probably just your

credit un they'll just make you a loan like a personal loan almost they're not going to put a lot of regulation on that

not going to require the takeout letter not going to require an appraisal not going to usually but uh but if you get

up there over 100 then you're going to have a construction loan I just

rewatched The Big Short over the weekend

this whole mortgage crisis man it puts

things in perspective yeah how wild

things were back in those days yeah

well there was just so the big Short's all about all the fraud that happened yeah and it was just people making up appraisals and uh we got a whole new

list of appraisal regulations in as a result of what happened in that movie

yeah a whole different world this is the ramsy

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information

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George camel Ramsey personality is our co-host today open phones at

8825 5225 thanks for being with us

America we're here to serve you our joy

comes when we can show you what to do and then you actually go do it and it causes you to win bing bing that's how

that works that's um that's what this

has been about for 30 plus years now and

it continues to be Jody Is With Us in

Springfield Illinois hi Jody welcome to

the Ramsey Show hi there hey what's up I

well I'm kind of embarrassed to ask this

question but I am a

50-year-old Widow who has been widowed

for 15 years

um I have helped put my children through

college and I have no

retirement so I am ready to start

retirement and I don't even know where to begin and how much to put in there's

nothing embarrassing about any of that it sounds sounds like you make me feel good sounds like you're a wonderful person we just need to get on the ball right yes yeah so what do you

make I make about I was just sitting

here figuring this out um I bring home

about 36,000 take home a year okay so your

income somewhere around in the low 40s

uh maybe 45 yeah all right what do you

do I am a social worker okay all right

and do you have any debt I do not your house is paid for yes

that's great news that means most of your income can

go toward investing so you have zero saved right

now right what do you have in the

bank well here's what I have I have my

emergency fund of $1,000 I have my three months I have

three months of my Emer or for my you

know in case something

happens um but that's about all I have

at this point so I'm I'm on the Dave

Ramsey boat I just I'm scared I it's to

a point to where sometimes I cry because

I'm like what am I going to do you know because I don't know because

when my husband passed away you know I

used like life insurance and all that

kind of stuff to pay my house off so

yeah you know we had a roof over our head and all that kind of stuff because

my kids were seven and 10 when all of

this happened wow well you've had a lot

of Life happen hard I totally understand

had a lot we're not here to beat you up we want to give you some good next steps to take and if you're following the baby steps now that puts you at baby step four because you have no debt fully funded emergency fund and really it's step seven because you have a paid for house and so now the kids are they

schools paid for we got to put our own mask now uh put our own mask on and that

looks like investing for retirement as aggressively as possible do you have a

retirement plan through your employer here's what I have and I I

didn't know what route to go but there's a 403b

okay I don't know much about that I've

kind of looked you know do they have a

match no okay I would not do that then I

would first do okay I mean I may do some

there but we would first do a Roth

IRA okay just a plain Roth not a

traditional a Roth a Roth so what I want

you to do is go to Ramsey solutions.com

and click on smartvestor and get a

smartvestor pro in your area to sit down

with you and they can help you run some calculations okay now let me give you an example you

bring home $3,000 a month you do not

have any bills except survival bills you

have no debt no rent no nothing okay

correct if you were to save

invest $11,000 a month for 15 years at 65

you're going to have right around a half a million dollars right around

$500,000 really yeah okay what this means is not that

you're rich and it's really not enough

but it's enough to make sure you're not cold and hungry right because it will produce

then let's just let's just reverse engineer this which is very interesting

okay let's pretend It produced 10% a

year on the mutual funds after that and

that you retired and had no retirement

income and I suspect you probably have a

retirement with your govern government

agency don't you that they furnish

you a

pension uh yeah actually uh my husband I

get a pension off of him but that's

thing but do you get a pension from your work when you retire no huh okay it's a social

security I pay into yeah yeah absolutely

which is nothing which is horrible but that's okay all right so if you had a half a million at 65 or 67 or whatever

and it was invested at 10% 10% of 500,000 is 50,000 a year

right without touching the nest egg

without touching the goose it will lay

50,000 golden eggs a

year wow and so you'd actually be making

more retirement than you are

now so no kitty so you're going to be

okay that's the point you're not going to be rich but even if I'm if my numbers

are off a little bit and they might be one way or another actually probably are

off in this case because you probably will not be making 36,000 for the rest

of your life you'll probably be making

more and so you could invest probably

more later agreed right yeah so the I did that

based on $1,000 in your current income

so so I want you to sit down with a smart Vestor Pro and we don't know how

the scenarios will compare to actual

life but you can run some scenarios like

I just did just to get the idea that I

don't have to

cry cuz if you'll start now Jody and

you'll start investing close to $1,000

or more than $1,000 a month you get your budget tight and you do that you're going to be

okay matter of fact you're gonna be better than

okay that makes me that makes me cry

just being happy yeah so I want you to

sit down but it also needs to make you get on the budget and do it it also mean

means you to get on the phone and get on

with those smart Vestor pros and go sit down with them and learn and let's get this stuff started not next week not next year now now okay right now it and

because every day you put this off it gets harder if you put it off a year it's GNA take 1,200 yeah don't put it off anymore you

put it off as long as you can the fuse

is burning so I want you scared enough

that I scare you into action but I don't want you terrified anymore so you're

paralyzed I got it I'm on it I'm doing

it today I love you you're awesome call us back and let us know how it's going okay okay thank you guys so much I

appreciate it thank you sweet lady love

that she just needed a little motivation that she's not doing as as bad as she thought she was and the time to start is

today what's interesting about what we

do for a living we talk about getting out of Deb or we talk about Building Wealth numbers actually give you a

result that gives you hope when you run

math okay you know got $100,000 in debt

I'm never going to get out what it's 33,000 a year for for 3 years I mean

it's 2,600 bucks a month and you make

150,000 shut your winding up you know

all of a sudden the numbers give you Ma give you hope right the math gives you hope in her case it's $1,000 a month and

for for the next 15 years and not

missing a month and getting started immediately and getting good returns and good mutual funds which probably that 403 b does not have that's why I

directed her away from that you know let's go first to the Roth IRA with more control more options lot better options

a lot better mutual fund option out there now I can be off and if y'all want to argue with my numbers that's fine argue with my numbers but here's the point get with it you know and and you

know I might be if I'm half wrong she's

still going to have 25 $26,000 a month

coming in uh or 25 $26,000 a year coming

in uh versus nothing which your little

plan you critique critic people out

there creates nothing that's what

critics create nothing well the new one Dave is well a million dollars isn't enough enough anymore Dave that means a half million dollar is half of not enough but it's more than you got if you

be broke and crying about it hello yeah

we'd love for you to have multiple Millions but I mean in this case you could see 500,000 would still change your life the way she the only way she's going to get to over a million is she's going to raise her income substantially so she could invest twice as much cuz

2,000 a month yeah for 15 years at 12%

my mutual funds have average 12% for Less 30 years my personal portfolio and

I'm not a genius the market is average 11.8% in the S&P

so by God shut up and go do it you know

so could you could you end up with a million dollars in 15 years yeah it's two grand a month that's it roughly I

mean there it is ding ding this is the

Ramsey

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Show

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Ramsey [Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at triple

8825 5225 so our team handed me this

this is cool George in March Andrew came

and did a debt-free scream with me and

uh Dr John deloney was on the air and we

celebrated him paying off

$33,000 49 months wow his student loans

car debt home improvement loan credit card and house paid off his home and and

then we get an email from him that he had a chance to go back to his Alma moer

his high school to one of our

foundations in personal finance classes

warshaw high school and uh his he he put

this quote on Facebook 2009 whs grad oh

this what they put on there Andrew

returned to his Alma moer today to chat

with the senior financial planning class

about his financial journey and becoming debt-free he completed the Dave Ramsey

class and paid off his debt this class

is also completing the high school

version of Financial Peace University thanks for coming Andrew which is called foundations in personal finance very

cool what a great poster child these kids are going oh this I got to watch another video and then they're seeing this guy who was from their High School

who who graduated from the same sat at the same desk they set who has no payments in the world yeah at a very young age 100% debt free wow ding ding

ding ding house and everything and go in and tell the high school seniors it can be done that's how we do it some social

proof yeah we've got the foundations and

personal finance High School curriculum

that now 6 million students have been

through since we started it it's been in

48% of the high schools it's currently

in like 40% of the high schools and more

and more states are now making personal

finance mandatory I love it and so we've

been adopted by for instance the Texas

um what whatever the Texas state school

board or the adoption process to adopt

the curriculum uh and we were just adopted in uh Florida oh that's right a couple months

ago a big one so Florida's got a big push brand new push it's Texas has had

it for a while and they've got their second push coming to get all the seniors before they graduate through our

kids before they graduate at some point as a senior or Junior whatever through a

personal finance curriculum and we have the largest most successful one and

Florida just adopted ours as well now they've got other brands that they can do but so now each of the school local

school boards are selecting whether they're going to use Ramsey or whether they're going to use something else but really excited about it and um um happy

to be in Florida thanks Florida we appreciate you and actually I got to

meet uh the state senator uh when we

were down there doing an event in Orlando remember that I got to you were in the you met him too he's in the Green Room it was incred and that sponsored the bill that got passed in Florida to

uh make personal finance a mandatory a

man it's not elect a mandatory class for

graduation at a certain date in Florida

high schools and that precipitates then

the uh High School curriculum or our

personal finance curriculum is getting adopted and we're one of the high school

approved adopted curriculums in in

Florida so excited about that so if

you're around one of the uh Florida uh

School boards or you're a teacher or whatever um and you want to push for our curriculum being in your school we would

appreciate it and way to go Andrew

thanks for going back to your school and

I don't know where washaw High School is but it's not on this but it's pretty

cool that a guy does that and goes back and speaks to the class with well everyone go they don't teach us stuff in school we do now yeah it's it is in a

bunch of the states now and we're that's

obviously have been doing it a very very long time very successfully we meet all the benchmarks it's a we've got a educ

Ramsey education Solutions Department

here that we've been running for I don't know almost 20 years now and the guys

and gals in that department that that

put this curriculum together that we use in the high schools uh are from the

education world and so our stuff meets

is the easiest for teachers to operate

because it's the lesson plans are done the testing is done right it's all built

out to where it's as low lift as

possible former teachers going I wish this is how it was created I wish everything was created this way because our guys are putting and it meets all the educational benchmarks and

legalities and so forth that we have to meet in order to be in a a public school

system and so we do every bit of that

and uh man we're just thrilled thrilled so many people are getting able to do this and this is cool that Andrew Andrew

did that that's a lot of fun Isaac is with us Isaac is in Huntsville Alabama

hi Isaac welcome to the Ramsey Show thanks for having me how are y'all

better than we deserve what's up so my wife and I are fixing to be

going through our first

divorce and um she's going to keep the

house that we currently have and than to

a wonderful support system I'm going to

be able to move back in with my parents

while I get back on my feet and at this

point I'm just wondering you know kind of what's next

how do I start over from here what should be the correct Step I

Take how old are you

sorry I am 32 years old how long are

y'all married uh about five years or so maybe

you have children uh a 5-year-old son

yes I'm sorry huh what do you

make um $33 an hour about $4,000 take

home a month

okay um well to answer your

question you know you're you're just going to start laying out a game plan to build enough financial life that you

move into into this next chapter right I

mean first goal would be to get on your

feet enough that you had a little bit of money saved and you go get an apartment

right right I mean this obviously your

parents are providing a a safety net not

a hammock correct and so you're just

passing through and uh like you said

that's a wonderful thing and I'm not upset about that at all but I would give

myself a number of months like three or

six months or something and say by then I'm going to have enough save to to have deposits and get an apartment get my own

place get some furniture you know get

get restarted in terms of like almost as

if you were moving out after high school or college right right and um and then

you you know once you've kind of got a a

standard of living set and a place to

live then you start doing the baby steps

and you make sure you're you get out of debt you build an emergency fund and you

know you start investing and you know you're going to figure out that there's another chapter to this after 32 years

old right right yeah so this setback is

going to be a comma not a coma so keep

that in your mind this is temporary

you're going to have a whole another life on the other side of this thing this isn't Define you but it will refine

you and so now is the time to make some

choices that will set us up for the next 10 years so do you know as the dust

settles what the financial picture looks

like as far as child support alimony the

house debt so

I will be taking the car that she's

currently driving and she's going to take the car that I'm currently driving because it's paid off and the car that I

will be getting is not I owe somewhere

around 21,000 on it um the way we've

worked everything out between us you know everything's very amicable so we're it's going to be

uncontested so the way we have it worked

out no child support no alimony or

anything it's all going to be and we

both put in everything we can for him

and she's keeping the house and there's no you're not getting any money out of this out of the house deal correct okay okay I'm not a lawyer

and I'm certainly not a lawyer in Huntsville Alabama I don't think a judge is going to approve a divorce decree that does not in child include child

support okay uh you probably need some

legal advice not to create a stink but I

think you're going to be under the law

in Most states required to do something

for the kids from a legal perspective I know you were going to from a moral perspective but um

but I I think I I don't know I don't know what I'm talking about so you need to check that out cuz I had fireworks go

off in my head but it can't just be handshake agreements I don't I don't think it can be I I you you check me out

I could be wrong okay so um the

house what's the payment on the

house uh 550 a month what does she

make um bring home is about 2,000 a

month okay she's G to struggle with

that and your name still and your name's

still on the mortgage and if you try to

have a new life 5 years from now and she

hasn't paid the bills on time then your

credit is going to have been damaged so

I'm not sure this is a great plan brother I know it sounds like it's all

nice it's all nice until it's not and

then when she gets in trouble loses her job you're going end up paying the house payment for somebody you ain't married to anymore cuz you're still on the

mortgage this is the Ramsey

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more [Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at

88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your

money Johnny is with us in Irvine

California hi Johnny welcome to the Ramsey Show hi there thank you for taking my

call how are you guys better than we deserve what's up great well I'm calling

to see what you guys would do if you were in my shoes I'm 22 years old I

fully support myself I take home about $5,000 per month I have zero debt I have

$60,000 in savings a $3,000 emergency

fund and I've been listening for the past year or so and some of my friends and mentors are into long-term real estate investing so I've been saving towards that for the past couple of years ideally I'd like to start building some long-term wealth wealth and so I just wanted to see what you guys would do if you were in my shoes wow you are

beyond beyond ahead of the game well

done very well done thank you well I um

probably have a different view on real estate investing than your

mentors sure and I probably own more

than they do given that I own about 600 million

worth okay um but anyway the uh uh I I I

do not believe in borrowing money Johnny

because you and you've heard that listening to the show and I don't for my

real estate investing I pay cash for it

and so the first real estate investing I

did and I've always loved real estate um

that I did after going broke and starting completely over and with this

new I don't borrow money thing uh as a

part of the guidelines uh was I didn't

do real estate investing at first I just started piling money in mutual funds and

when I got enough in in an in in an

index fund is what I used an S&P 500

Index Fund when I it took me about five

years to buy my first income producing

property I paid cash for it and then I

took all of those rents net of expenses and any other

money I could and I threw it in an index

fund until I had enough to buy another

property and then I took all the rents

from the two properties and any money I

could scrape together from anywhere else book royalties or whatever else and I bought another property for cash and

every time I bought another property for cash I had more cash flow to buy another

property faster than I did the one before does

that make any sense yeah that that makes

perfect sense that is a very long-term play versus what you have been considering until this phone call sure

because you're thinking about getting up a down payment and going buying a nice little duplex in California exactly yeah and I'm telling

you to wait and pay cash for it which

your friends aren't going to like and I

don't really care they're wrong that's

true but you called knowing you were

going to get a different take which tells me you're actually interested in this take I am yeah i' I've just been curious

what to do because I feel like I've I've been saving decently and I'd like to continue that um but you know once you

get a certain amount of money I feel like it burns a little bit of a hole in your pocket you're ready to jump into it yeah and you've done really well Johnny

I mean let's face it you're 22 years old you have ,000 bucks in the in the bank

and no debt at all and you're making 5K

a month you're killing it ding D very

impressive and it doesn't sound like you lead a super luxurious lifestyle you're

a saver I I try to be for sure there's

there's a balance so the key is to keep living on less than you make what would be interesting if you want to be really nerdy I don't know how nerdy you are I'm real nerdy is and I've done this a

couple of times it's and it it always it

always works that's why I'm putting you up to it is if you say all right when

I'm

42 would I rather own $10 million worth

of real estate with $8 million worth a

debt or would I rather own $3 million

worth of paid for Real

Estate yeah I think the clear answer is

the 3 million yeah and then here's what's here's the here's the exercise

run out the the purchase snowball which

is not a debt snowball but the way I talked about a while ago rents buy more

buy more buy more more by more everything's folded back into the next deal and the slower start ends up with a

faster end the faster start ends up with a

slower end my way is slower start but has a big

time payoff at the end because it hockey

sticks from an exponential mathematical

equation perspective does any of that make sense yeah it definitely it does cuz

when you get all this property that's sitting there paid for you you are buying more property faster than you

would have if you had a whole bunch of

property that's not even close to paid for and it's not cash flowing nearly as

generously so the math says I can buy I

can buy more property faster now it's

ridiculous what my real estate fund now

looks like from my real estate

income you now CU I'm at the back of the

story right so but I can't get people to

to think long term and I might have just got one 22y old to

do it though who know I'm impressed he sounded interested yeah we could just get off Tik Tok we'll get there for real

Jake is in De Mo Iowa hi Jake how are

you hey guys it's an honor to speak with

you thanks for having me our pleasure how can we help sir yeah so I'm 35 years

old have no debt and am about to step

into baby step six and my question is uh

you talk about uh baby step seven living

and giving like no one else I have no

problem with the the giving aspect of

things the part that is a little tricky

for me to wrap my mind around is the

living like no one else because uh I am

a pastor and so to be stepping into baby

step seven hopefully here in the next five or six years I'm trying to imagine

life in my 40s living like no one else

while being a pastor and and living in

the community of people who uh who pay

for who have paid for my uh financial

success you could say I I don't know how else you you would put it but how how should I think through that as I look forward to the next five or 10 years

yeah well

um don't muzzle the ox as he Treads out

the grain you probably read that scripture right yeah and a worker is

worthy of his hire you probably read that scripture

right M so are you a good pastor and

you're worth what they pay you you I I sure hope so then if you use

that money wisely in Christianity we

would call that good stewardship wouldn't we I think you're modeling for those

people what good Steward what the results of good stewardship are that it

ends up with wealth but we're taught by

the by Carl Marx not by Jesus that

wealth is

evil wealth is not evil people are evil

evil particularly some of them in your

church I'm kidding

no but but uh not much but yeah

anyway but yeah but but so you're always

goingon to have a hater whether you win or you lose if you do it at

scale yeah if you lose you weren't a

good Steward and you're horrible and you

worked your whole life and you have nothing to show for it and we call that

being a good Steward that's not a good Steward that means you did a bad job hand Ling your money so you're supposed to model for

your congregation how to how to be a good husband how to be a good dad right

right how to be a great leader we're

supposed to model in Christian it's

called a witness we call And yet when it

my my friend Craig Rochelle says why is it that wealth is the only blessing from

God we're supposed to apologize

for and I've got several friends that

are pastors that are uh a decade and a

half ahead of you and they're facing the exact same thing cuz they have systematically carefully invested in uh

in their 401ks and in their Roth IRAs

and in their retirement programs and

some of them are bought real estate

carefully and they they don't have jet

airplanes they're not on TV you know

that it's none of that junk they're just good guys as a pastor and they've been careful with their income and most of them are millionaires because they did the stuff I teach but now there's always

some duber that says well Pastor should

never be a millionaire yeah that's what I want I want my pastor to be broke and

stupid no I don't either I want my P I

don't want I want you know Pastor should never listen I want my pastor I want his

marriage to be something I can look up to I want his kids to be something I can look up to I want the way he handles money to be something I can look up to

because obviously the book he is reading

has having an effect on his life and I

want to know more about what that book called The Bible says then but not if

you're out you know so but you're always

going to be criticized Jake whether it's

about your message or the car you drive

there going to be someone out there ex and you know you have to get if you're a

Christian you have to drive a used a cord cuz that's what Jesus said they were all in one Accord oh that one still

gets me this is the Ramsey

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Show hey George camel here if you love

the show and you want a deeper dive on your money Journey we've got a Weekly Newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the

Ramsey Way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for the

newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships open phones at

8825 5225 that's

8825

5225 Jenna start oh George camel Ramsey

personality is my co-host today uh he's

also the co-host of smart money happy hour and the host of The George camel

show on YouTube which is exploding by

the way one of our more popular Ramsay

Network launches in the last year Jenna

is with us Jenna is in Seattle Washington hi Jenna welcome to the Ramsey Show hi oh my gosh I'm so excited

to talk to you guys you too what's

up um so I have a situation that feels

complicated to me but likely not to you

guys which is why I'm calling um I am

the soulle provider for my family and am self employed as a um therapist a mental

health therapist in private practice and

um I make uh good money over $200,000 a

year and am um yeah over 10 years it's

been it's been amazing um but um I'm

paid pretty irregularly mostly by

insurance companies and um I usually

know by like Sunday evenings um kind of

what my deposits are going to look like but they tend to um be slight slightly

different um each week and then I also

get kind of random payments like you

know co- payments from patients or just

um kind of paper checks it's just I'm

not I don't have like a it's sort of

predictable but like also not predictable long you been doing this uh how long have I been doing this

over 10 years uh actually so over the

over the course of a year it's very predictable over the course of 6 months it's fairly predictable over the course

of one week it's not correct okay so give us some uh R estim

what's your question so we're struggling

to budget um as far as um the kind of

grocery shopping um weekly versus

monthly like just kind of really trying to understand our money better um we've

kind of banked on like we just make good money and so we money just sort of disappears and I'm trying to do better we're trying my husband and I are trying to do better um I had one caveat

question I wanted to throw him under the buses he also refuses to drop the coffee

stand and wants to keep it in the budget and I want to mix it from the budget um

so I want you guys to give me some uh

you mean buying a cup of coffee at a coffee stand correct this is not your

problem no it's not my problem you need

to lose that battle and win the war he

needs a budget line item for his coffee he gets his coffee and we get a budget together that we both work on that accomplishes our overall goals coffee is not keeping you from doing that I agree

all right that one's under the bus he you lose he wins next all right George

how do we do an irregular income so the

simplest way to look at this is look at what a low month would be for you guys we know it's not going to be zero right

correct so what would be a low month a low month would be 12,000 okay

so we start there we'll input that in the budget and when more money comes in we'll just add that income into the budget on the income side got me okay

yes then on the expense side we're going to do it a little differently because it's a regular we're going to make a prior prioritized spending plan so let's

have our four walls we got to cover the bills you know the rent the mortgage all

of that stuff first food on the table

you should have a set food budget that

is fixed that easily fits within

$112,000 and it should not have to change based on the irregularity of the income okay other things will change

based on the irregularity but not food

okay because it's first now are you at

risk of running out of money even on that bad month of $122,000 or are you just trying to go hey we should be saving more with all of our expenses

well um no we're not at risk of running

out of money um I just don't feel like

we're throwing enough at our snowballs

um we have perect perfect yeah we're not

at risk of running out of money as far as our our needs go I just feel like it

every after that it sort of just disappears gotcha but it's not

disappearing into the coffee stand there's other places other money leaks

well it's what she's saying I think and I don't put words in your mouth is it's disappearing into the disorganization ization and the chaos and I want to get

a handle on this so I can feel like I'm doing a good job correct like it's like

one week I'll I'll pay the Comcast bill

and then the next week I'll pay you know

a different bill and I just don't feel like I'm organized enough um and so I

feel like you know I want to have a

better understanding and I was thinking

similar to what you were saying if I

just created an idea budget and then

whatever kind of comes extra I could

even just throw out our snowball um if

you can live on the

12,000 without touching it and you get

everything you need to do you could run a budget on 12,000 and every extra

dollar above that goes to your debt snowball that's an easy

fix okay if you need 13,000 to live but

12 is your low then you've got to add a

th000 to those last few things before

you start the de snowball that's what George is saying yeah so including our

business expenses we need about $9 ,000

to live 9 to 10,000 to live okay your

business needs to be running separately yeah yeah yeah yeah the business is running separately um

household no no no noop STP STP you

don't have an included okay the it's not

it's not running separately if it's included hello so here here's the thing

we run a business budget and then when

we bring money home from our net profits

after paying the business

expenses then we work with that so your

business expenses run

what my business expenses are monthly is

only uh $2,300 a month okay all right so

you actually have a low of

9700 yes because you're not bringing

home that 2300 correct okay so you know so so that

based on what we're doing I need to have you need to have that separated out and keep it set completely separate run a

separate set of book separate checking account separate everything for the business we actually give ourselves a weekly paycheck we give ourselves that

doesn't matter you got to you got and then you need to cash out the rest of the profits beyond your weekly paycheck

and beyond your expenses out of the business account over into the personal account but the same principle will still work because the same math applies

I just split it aparts all okay so

you're still okay 9700 will still do it

if 2,300 stayed at the office you can still do it on 9700 and everything else

will go to the de snowball and then sign

so in the 9700 some of it's going to the debt snowball but it's just how much more we put on the debt snowball and

every every dollar premium will cause you to be able to do that we've got a thing in there called paycheck planning

uh that works really well for the

irregular income and you and your husband can sit down together and lay the whole thing out on the app uh or on

the desktop whichever you choose to do with every dollar and it'll lay all out

and and we'll give you three months free and get you started on the every dollar premium okay a awesome cool thank you

guys all right hang on um we'll have the

team pick up and give you three months for every dollar premium because that'll that'll do it perfectly oh yeah and it'll help him see where's all this

money going what did we decide we were going to do this month yeah and then the

only choice you're making is $8 or

whatever the flipping coffee is it's ridiculous but I mean $8 is not going to

get you out of debt that or but but you

are going to start looking at everything including the coffee you'll see how much money you're wasting how much more can we throw how far are we going to cut our lifestyle versus the debt we have versus

the $200,000 well not really

$175,000 income that we have this is the

Ramsey

[Music]

shot

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[Music]

budget

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones

8825 5225 I was just telling George a story and Austin you need to hear this too in 2012

I took a call here on the air from a guy

who had a side hustle and he said I love my side hustle more than I like my job

when can I quit my job and do the side hustle I want to double down my parents say I'm crazy for doubling down my wife

says I'm half crazy for quitting my job

uh he was a pharmacist so he'd spent a

lot of money and a lot of time getting to to be a pharmacist he he said I want to quit Pharmacy I want to go into this

whole other side of things in the gun

industry and I'm like okay so I'm I'm a

gun guy so I'm talking to him and listening to him I'm like yeah that's pretty cool so I said how much do you make and he said I made 65,000 on my

side hustle how much you make as a pharmacist this year this is 2012 he

said 60,000 I said well double down I'm

on your team uh I if I would advise your

wife that you should go after this it's what you love it's your passion I would

advise your mom and dad that they're very sweet but they're wrong and that you should go after this so um a couple weeks ago I was out west

and um I visited the guy's

business he did 70 million last

year that hurts my

brain wow and he acts like I did it and

I'm like I didn't do anything I talked to you for five minutes you've worked for uh you know what 11 12 years on your

business you built your business I didn't build your business I'm so so proud of you though uh I I'll take

credit for lighting a fire but dude you you you burned the forest down man that

is way to go way to go man that's pretty

cool uh we don't always get to hear the

followup 11 years later to taking some of you guys' calls out here so uh some

of you ought to tell us if we screwed it up 12 years later or if we got we got it

right or whatever yeah goodness pretty

cool for pretty cool I'm I'm impressed

with him sharp young guy too obviously

Todd is in Fort Wayne hey Todd welcome

to the Ramsey Show hey Dave thanks for

taking my call sure what's up got a

quick question for you uh back in 2009

2010 when there's a big recession that we all heard about my business uh went

in pretty deep and uh since then I've

paid back uh everybody I can and taking

care of all that but I've got one credit card that went after me and in 2000

through Collections and uh it took me to

small I guess you call it small claims court because I seen I got a letter for a judge judgement against me but at that

time um I was still trying to get my head above water how long ago was the

Judgment uh it was 2015 August of 2015

eight years ago okay was the first one

yes uh the first one yeah the amount was

about um I don't know $2 $3,000 but of

course with all their fees that judgment was for $8,000 round numbers and uh

anyway I just got another certified letter today I didn't know how to for sure uh how to contact these guys I just

knew it was out there but they've added 2,000 to it um anyway it says they have

14 days to congest um I'm assuming a

court hearing I didn't know the first time I could do that but do I just I

don't think they I don't think they get to have a court hearing on this one okay

because it's gone too long yeah all

right so let's do a little uh let's

learn a couple things here number one

you owe these people some money and you're not disputing that agreed yes

okay yes and the original balance was

what uh I don't know for sure it was

like 3,000 or something with their fees the original no I'm talking about fees I'm talking about what you actually owe them oh the first one was uh $79.97 so

8,000 no no no no no no that was with

the fees okay when you had a credit card

before it went to collections the

balance on the credit card was $3,000

wasn't it yeah somewhere around there

yeah that's what I'm thinking okay

so um here's the thing if they said

they've added more another 2,000 so it's now $10,000 right yes okay there's a

whole industry out there that most people don't even know is out there called debt buyers and they buy old

bad probably

uncollectable debt probably

uncollectible because the person has already filed bankruptcy and they don't get anything but they still will buy the

debt sometimes not knowing that uh or

the debt has gone too long and it's passed the statute of limitations in that county or that City or that town or

that state and so it's not collectible

which I think is probably the case with yours anyway they probably get zero uh

technically legally uh but they buy old

bad debt now let me tell you what they

pay for it a nickel on the

dollar maybe less yeah so this guy

calling you or certified lettering you

is with a $10,000 bill likely has $250

to $500 invested in your

account okay that's good information if you're

going to call him and offer him 3,000

bucks yeah I want to do right by this

debt I'm willing to pay $3,000 that's

all I'm willing to pay if you want $1

more I'm going to give that to a lawyer

and I'm going to fight you to the death cuz I don't think you can collect this at all cuz it's gone too long

so this is a case this letter from the

our County Courthouse or uh Court does

that make a difference nope it's not the

court didn't buy the debt some duber bought the debt okay so the dubers

brought you to the county courthouse you got a is a duber name on

there uh yeah the collection agency and

there's a lawyer name on it the lawyer is who you call call the lawyer okay cuz

here's the deal they are not in the

business this is not like if I owe you

money and you were pissed and got a lawyer and sued me okay this is a

conveyor belt at a factory and it's the

junkyard it's not even a factory it's a

conveyor belt at the junkyard and

they're running like 9,000 Parts a

minute down the conveyor belt and you're

one tiny little

part okay all right let me give you

another example just to for fun okay a

couple of Christmases ago I decided to

take advantage of this colge to do a fun

charitable thing for our team we bought

8,000 accounts from a debt buyer

totaling $10 million worth of debt our

purpose in buying it was we were going to call all 8,000 people we have a th000

employees so each of them got to call

eight people and tell them their debt is

Forgiven in Jesus name for

Christmas so we bought $10 million worth

of debt to do that for

$259,000 2.5 cents on the

dollar yeah that's amazing yeah so I'm

telling you this is how this works so

that that's who you're dealing with you're one of 8,000 in a

package only you didn't the package

wasn't bought by me so you got to go

deal with the people but it's still I

had 8,000 people that were in this one

package for two and a half cents on

2.59 cents on the dollar

all right and that that's how this that's how this industry works man so

and what do they want they want more than they've got in it because this is a business for them not a charitable event so they got 250 or 500 Grand $500 in

your deal you offer them 3,000 and you

stand firm and argue with them about 30 times they're going to take it get it in

writing do not give them electronic

access to your checking account those two things are very important okay so I think you should pay

them what you owe them which is three grand okay you got the three grand yep I

do very cool does that does that tell you what you need to know yes perfect

thank you cool thank you so they're

hoping a few people in this giant pile

will pay that eight or 10 grand to make this whole operation work no they they

never get it 99% of the accounts aren't

collectible that's why they're worth nothing because I mean what do you what are the chances of collecting on something from 2010 13 years ago 13

years ago if you can even find the guy I

mean they're just saying Glory Hallelujah that they even found him right we had trouble making the calls we couldn't even old cell phone numbers bad

numbers we had a we you know we had what I bet you uh one out of uh one out of

eight was probably bad or two out of eight the information we had with the

accounts we bought were bad which tells you they had bad information when they bought it well yeah cuz it's old I mean

how many people got the same cell phone number 13 years later you know and or

whatever the same address and you know

you don't send a change of address to people you owe money to if you're on the run you know so it doesn't happen that

way so it's an interesting world but

it's a very high doll high number low

performance world and if you'll keep

that in mind when you're dealing with them it's not personal it's just a transaction for them this is the Ramy

[Music]

show

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at

88255 225 today's question of the day

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and get started today's question comes

from Steve in Minnesota I'm 43 years old

I still have student loan debt about 4,900 it was originally 24 Grand back in

2010 this year in May I went and got

2,130 hair graph transplants for about

13 Grand some I paid up front and the

rest I used a Care Credit Card for

$10,500 I owe about five grand on it now

I have 32,000 in savings I've got about

10 grand on a 401K and I make about 20

bucks an hour I didn't get enough hair graphs to cover the back top crown area

should I go back for more hair transplant graphs to cover that

area Dave this is a personal question

that I think only you could

answer this is very personal it's

personal you're just mean hair jokes

George Well you bullied me for far too long day it's my time to get

back oh Steve Steve Steve okay Steve

Steve well the good news is Steve has some money and he can clean up this debt today I don't know why he's waited 13 years he has 30 2 Grand in savings let's

knock out the 10 grand in debt and you'll still have 22,000 left that covers an e emergency fund and that

should cover some hair graphs so 32,000

10,500 on the credit card he says he

owes five on it now and then um oh okay

and then five so so 10,000 clears up the

student loan and the card right yep and

that leaves him $22,000 right mhm that's what I'm saying

okay and um then we need to ascertain

what your emergency fund should be 3 to

6 months of expenses and if that is under

$22,000 like say 15 then you would have

seven you could use towards other things

and if that's what you choose to do with your money okay um right yeah but if your if your

emergency fund should be

25,000 you need to finish your emergency

fund before you do other things because

until you're out of debt and have an emergency fund in place we do not

do elective surgeries that's a luxury

it's a luxury well I need bigger

lips no no the food's going in you don't

need bigger lips the uh coffee is not

spilling you need bigger you don't need bigger lips uh you can bigger lips are a

luxury uh hair in the back is a luxury

apparently here in the front is a luxury for so he must have got just the front done and then he's got this Crown here that's still I mean if you're the hair transplant people that was genius hey you'll have

to come back it leaves you it leaves you with a a guaranteed client for the back

as soon as they get home and get a mirror the other question is they do a good job with the rest of it so far cuz

maybe let's not go back my stomach is in

my throat this is killing me but yeah but I imagine it's a few more Grand to finish it up if he's got the crown left I don't I'm going to get in a lot of trouble if I'm not real careful here but anyway the um yeah if this is what you

want to do with your money it should only be done it's a choice it's a luxury

item it's like buying a new couch or

upgrading a car it's done after your

emergency fund is in place and you are debt free so you should write a check today Steve and pay off your student

loan debt and your credit card I'm is

this even is this real this is real some

guy spook I thought Austin was trolling us somebody's punking us and Austin let

it through it's too specific to be

punking at this point well it's a good

way to to somebody You' give great

detail like I just don't have enough hair graphs in the he told us how many hair graphs 2,130 I know but that's pretty that's

how you punk somebody that's how that's what causes us to bite on it well we bit on it and so we're pretending like it's real I think someone wanted to know your take on hair transplant oh that's just

no no they didn't obviously they know my

take on hair transplant all they got to do is just pull up Pi say not worth the money well it's just um it's

a yeah you've been cutting your own hair

for a few decades now it's easier that

way the amount of money you've saved

though compared to me I just grew up in

a different place and a different time

where we enjoyed getting old and we is

what we is so we didn't constantly be

poking and prodding at ourselves but

it's a different time back then it was just like a tou pay there weren't many options yeah that's true it's a bad two

pay or nothing yeah like something out of a movie from the 70s yeah but oh I

don't I I figured that the person with

the lowest hair maintenance and the

highest hair maintenance in the studio

we' have opinions would have a great opinion on this Jade's not

here to sh boom roasted

Jade hey Jade spends more time on her

hair than you do I promise you I've got this down to a sience she's got more stuff going on from the Predator look to the twisted up on top look to the whole thing she's got more looks tell you this I haven't spent 13 Grand on my hair so

there's bonus yeah none of all of us

together have not spent 13 Grand on our

hair so that's a lot I would just start wearing hats or just let it ride man I

mean you got a great head for it Dave a not everyone has that see George you're trying to dig out now you're trying to

dig out never dig out get you a shovel buddy this is my last show America it's been good shovel buddy it's been fun yeah you you and Austin Austin brings in

the hair joke email an alop and you just

you you you do the stuff with it right

you just stuff the thing right yeah all right let's move on while I still have my job all right Sarah is in Nashville

hi Sarah welcome to the Ramsey Show hi thanks for having me sure what's

up okay so I work two jobs I work a

full-time job and then I also work a

part-time job um my question is should I

or like is it okay for me to quit my

part-time job um even though I'm in baby

step to um the reason I'm wanting to

quit it is basically because I'm working at all all the time you know I'm trying to be gazelle intense and all but I am

not having a good time and I want to

pursue like other things to eventually

go into that so like what are you

saying basically I want to in the long

run get into music and I am in Nashville

so it's like the perfect place to do that you want to get into music did you

say yes okay all right but and what's

your part-time gig now I'm in retail

okay all right well that's like most of

Nashville yeah I mean like how do you get the next country music stars attention in Nashville uh

waiter right I mean that that's they're

everywhere I've got I've got three people that were on The Voice working for me and they ain't doing voice I'm

telling you so um but anyway the uh uh

yeah it's it's everywhere and I'm not saying you can't do it you you should do

it but how much debt do you have left

I about 50,000 and it's student loans okay and

when will at your current rate with gazelle intensity when will that be

done um about 2ish years how old are you

28 okay how many hours a week are you

working now um about 15 hours extra

so and plus a 40-hour job yes okay so

where do you work on Saturday night

um so retail retail is not

open yeah correct so I'm not working

yeah where do you work on Friday night not at retail it's not

open well I work the retail job uh

Monday through Friday after work and

they close all right so you don't have a Saturday gig okay yeah so sing on

Saturday yeah so I guess it's a little

bit complicated because I'm not into like the country music scene more into

Christian you're in Nashville and you want to get into music you want to be in the Christian music is that what you said yes okay so how are you planning on

breaking into it that's a good question I'm not quite

exactly sure I'm more thinking like the social media route okay then I would do

that on Saturdays okay and I get plugged into a

church where that music is happening as well yeah make sure you're in a good church that's Musical and they're doing a lot of good praise and worship stuff

and you know Nashville is also the home

of contemporary Christian music for sure

most of the artists live here that do that for a living a lot of them are

friends uh the older ones are friends

Darren Tyler did a songwriting night at his church with a bunch of songwriters so there's stuff like this happening in the community all the time you can do all of that and still keep your retail job you just got to give up partying on

Saturday oh wait a minute you're doing this from a Christian perspective maybe partying isn't the problem um you got to

shut down the prayer group on Saturday night and go do something else kind of party yeah that's it so yeah I I think

you can find the time Sarah and I think it's a short-term play to get out of debt let's get out of

[Music]

[Applause]

debt

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Walt is in Buffalo New

York hey Walt welcome to the Ramsey Show

hey guys thanks for taking my call I appreciate it sure what's up uh actually

had two questions but the young lady on the the screener told me I could only ask one so I figur I'd mention it maybe

you guys let me squeak in too uh my wife

and I have been on the baby steps since

no November of

2022 we made it all the way to step

three and almost immediately after that

we had to use a couple thousand doll of

our emergency fund uh we have

$4,000 in a high yield savings account

that's earmarked for kids college uh

he's 10 right now and we're wondering if

we should take the 2,000 from that four

to fill the emergency fund back

up I

would uh because it's not in a college

fund it's just earmarked you you have two accounts one of them you got named college but you got a 10-year-old you got plenty of time to build their

college savings and doing it in a 529

and so forth that's exactly what I would do yeah simple enough I mean it's liquid

you're not going to pay any penalties so if you told me it was in a 529 I'd say don't touch it yeah but you're you'll be fine there and you'll have time to fill it back or if it had been there for 20 years years or something and the kid was seven I mean you know there's a lot of different factors but uh you got a lot

of time and it's just a it's just a right pocket left pocket thing um and

then just you know if you take it out of the right pocket put in the left pocket then you got to go back to the right pocket and fill it up which is baby step five anyway reminder while four five and

six are done simultaneously yep so we're investing 15% while we have that plate spinning we

begin to fund the kids college then any

money left over we can throw onto the mortgage to pay that off early yeah so

four five and six which is retirement savings kids college savings and paying

the house off early we run simultaneously but still in that order 15% going into retirement funding kids

college which you're going to do immediately uh you'll begin with that

with that 2,000 it's left over and get an account open and get it moving and

then if you find more money in your budget or as you find more money in your budget as you go along let's pay off the house early Elijah is with us in

Charlotte North Carolina Hi Elijah

welcome to the Rams show hey Dave thanks for having us sure

what's up so me and my wife have a question and

it is we are debt free we have an

emergency fund we've tried to do everything by the book and both of us have zero credit and we are renting

currently is there any way that we could

one day buy a house without any credit

what is your advice well George did it yeah it's a a

fairly simple process it's called manual underwriting and what that is is basically a no score loan and our friends at Churchill Mortgage have been doing this forever but if you tell anyone about it they'll say no you can't do that and even if they say you can they'll say it's so much more expensive it's such a headache it'll take you forever they're lying they've never done it so let me tell you from someone who's done it that it's simple but you have to

do it by the book like you mentioned so you're going to want to have all the documentation your verification of income rental payment history you know

12-month history of your bank statements a tax return things like that and along

with that you need to have a good down payment have you guys started saving that up yet yes as soon as we finish building up

our emergency fund that's what we were going to start on awesome so I would aim

to have a minimum of 10% if you're doing the no score loan 20% is even better to

avoid that private mortgage insurance what kind of budget are you looking for for a house right now we're in North Carolina

and the housing market can wear from 100 or $200,000 to

$300,000 great so let's set that goal

and set it down payment savings goal and as long as you can get that payment to

be 25% of your take-home pay of your after tax income per month on a 15year

fixed then you're ready to buy a

home sounds great thank you so much

again Elijah if you go to a traditional

mortgage company or you ask your

friends um they're all going to tell you

that because they don't know how to do it that that can't be done George did it

Jade did it Dr John deloney did it all

of our Ramsey personalities have had zero credit scores and G and got mortgages okay so it it definitely can

be done we'll put a link to uh the Ramsey Solutions blog about this in the show notes and so if you want to go back and pull that up out of the show notes you'll be able to do that with a great detail on it but really George just gave it all to you and again selecting a

mortgage company that knows what the flip they're doing that's important and most of them don't Church Hill mortgage does know how to do this Chaz is with us

in Orlando hi Chaz welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey Dave thanks for having me sure

what's up uh so my question is I'm 24 years old me

and my fiance are getting married next

February um I have zero debt right now

um and I have a nice little NES egg in the bank that I've been saving up um my

question is my fiance has some debt once

we get married do you recommend that I

kind of use up most of my Nest Egg to

pay off her debt or should we keep that

Nest EG in the bank and just keep pursuing paying off her debt now that we go have both incomes to pay it

off what are we talking in the

bank so right now I have about $34,000

in the bank um and then her debt is a

little bit over $117,000 okay um so it wouldn't totally

wipe it out but it's just you know we

now through February it's just you know no I don't know what do you mean you

know for I mean yeah but like we just

like to have it in the bank no you do

just like yes you worked hard to save

this money up and it hurts emotionally to Let It Go for someone else's

mistake yeah that's okay to say out loud

but just know when you get married you're signing up for that whole person's life and it's our money so now

you have debt as well it's our debt and

it's our income all of the mistakes you have made come with you all of the mistakes she has made come with her and

the preacher will say and now you are one

mistake so so this is how this works

brother are you that in love with her that you're willing to do this oh 100%

not even a second get home from the honeymoon write a check and pay off for student loan okay yeah period period no question

about it and she should be paying it down you know we've got to save up for the wedding are you guys paying for it no luckily her parents have blessed

us with paying for the wedding great so

that's been a huge blessing for sure wonder and she's totally she's paying paying it down we actually been taking your class through our church and good so she's already working it down like every single day um but it's just it

looks like there might be a little bit left over once we get married and so you

know I was calling in to see see what your opinion was on so Chaz here's the thing if you called us up you you've

listened to us or you've been through Financial Peace University if you called us up and said we're a married couple we

have $34,000 in savings and we have

$177,000 in a student

loan we instantaneously would tell you

to pay that off would wouldn't we yes you would okay the only Nuance

here is is that it's new because the

marriage will be at that time new so

that's the only nuance and what you're

facing here is you're really having to face this idea that we are going to

combine our incomes our dreams our fears

our mistakes our assets we're going to

combine everything and we're going to become a whole new entity called a

married couple and that and you're

you're this is forcing you to process

the emotions of that which to George's

Point are you know we we poke fun but but it's they're very real it's a very

real emotion yeah and so but you've

listened to us enough to know that if you were answering the question as you're driving along in the car while listening on talk radio uh and someone

else called in you would be going they're going to tell him to pay the loan off yes true so the only difference here

is it wasn't an existing marriage couple

were moving into it and that's the only Nuance to change it happens to be your

money this time rather than listening to someone else to call in that changes it

too that's tough but you know the beautiful thing is you also get to build

wealth together and it is like exponentially greater when you have two people who are on the same page oh yeah

yeah that there's what's called in uh

sociological studies and economic

studies that called the marriage

Advantage h the P you know the there's

several marital advantages uh if you

haven't read the the research that's out

there uh Health me males who are married

live longer wow yeah uh and couples who

are married have a wealth and an income

career career and income Advantage

statistically they make more money and they have more money statistically so

it's called the marriage Advantage research projects that are out there floating around very interesting to look at so yeah you're right this is going to go zoom zoom you're going to be fine

that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the

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books hey it's George camel if you like

what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramseys solutions.com and click on the get

started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your

specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

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started live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships George camel

Ramsey personality is my co-host today

I'm Dave Ramsey the phone number is

88255 225 starting off this hour is

Corey in Cleveland Ohio hi Corey how are

you good how are you doing better than I

deserve what's up so I got a question I

I got 35,000 in credit card debt I'm

going through a divorce uh she wants me

to take another half of hers and I um I

I'm struggling I'm working um five days

a week um I drive truck as a local truck

driver and I just don't know where to

where even to start

at okay

um how much debt do you guys have as a

couple you've got 35 how much does she

have it'll be 65,000 total so she has

another 30 yes okay and there car

payments uh yes I have a car payment my

my truck payment is 970 a month good God

all right and um how much is her car

payment uh her car payment I'm not too

sure that we're actually we're going through a divorce and we're separated at this time well dude you were married to her

did you have the car then yeah yeah well she had uh she had

given me my car back I had bought her a

Lexus at the time and she had give it

back to me stuck me with that and my truck payment plus a motorcycle payment

and I was struggling so I traded both of my vehicles in and end up purchasing the truck I have now I saved myself about

$500 a month doing that yeah you didn't

go far enough all right no I didn't all

right

um okay so the problem is is we're

working out all the debts before there's a deal cut MH so every time you every

time you get something paid off or figured out she hands you another one

yes now this has got to

stop you've already eaten a Lexus in a

motorcycle and now she wants you to eat

15 more of the debt that's the credit

card debt that's in her name yes okay so

we need to uh do you guys have an

attorney yeah we have we both have attorneys I I tried toner I I she keep

the house and everything we put into it

she keeps her debt I keep mine we'll go our separate ways she's not into it she

has no she's not willing to work with me at all okay then I guess the judge is going

to have to decide right and that goes

February 7th I'm trying to figure out

what I need to do in the meantime I have an opportunity right now to buy my own semi and go over the road and make what

I'm making now no you need to get this cleared up before you do that because she's gonna end up with half the dad gum semi right that's what I'm worried about

yeah how much money do you have in the bank uh at this moment in time I'm

struggling and that's why but um I have

maybe 30 bucks right now I'm going

through it right now

MH okay and you're not driving over the

road now or you

are you just cut out on me man uh that's

why we were uh that's why we're going to the divorce we drove team over the road together me and her together uh we were

racking down 250,000 a year between us

both um I was sticking mine in my 401k

she was spending hers and that's another

thing she's wanting she's wanting half of my 401k also and we weren't even

married that long three years and she's

entitled to uh everything I put in from

the date of marriage to the date of

divorce which is it's not even it's not

really a lot of money but I worked for

it you know you guys have kids no kids

nope okay so are you driving over the

road now no I'm local okay what do you

make uh right now now I'm 3322 an hour

and that is all straight pay and you've

got an apartment yes okay what's the

house worth uh I just had an appraise at

appraise for 174,000 what do you owe on

it uh

132 okay all right so here's here's what

I would do all right the problem with a

divorce is it turns a marriage into a

business transaction and so this is now a list of

debts and a list of assets that must be

negotiated through the law in Most

states as you have found out splits it

down the middle what she wants doesn't

matter what you want doesn't matter the

law is going to demand that you split it

down the middle if you come to something close to that and pre- agree to it the

judge will approve it if you come to something way out of balance the judge is probably not going to approve it and kick out your agreed to to settlement

because it's too stupid okay so all of that to say you

don't need to be buying anything if I

were in your shoes I'd sell this

truck yeah get you yeah you said that

like I'm not doing it you need to sell your stupid truck dude $970 at $33 an

hour is in the cray cray zone right I I

want to get rid of it I went to trade it in they told me I would have to pay out $4,000 in equity negative equity to cck

get off from underneath the truck at that point It Go Go borrow 4,000 at the credit

union and do it or sell a private party if you can make 4,000 more and be get out of it clean sell it private and and just sell it and be done with it somebody will give you more than you owe on it okay what is it what kind of truck

is it it's a 2023 Chevy

Silverado that's a beast that's a good

Truck Yeah you ought to be able to get more than you owe on it yeah so yeah the

problem is a dealer thinks he's got you coming again right he got you last time he's

going to get you again especially if you're desperate they can smell that off of you yeah so I think I think you put it on the look it up on Kelly Blue Book and sell it for more than you owe on it

and then get you a hoopie because you're

driving truck during the day anyway you don't need a bank big car right now you

got more problems than you need car right yes sir so this is temporary one

year from the day everything's going to be changed but temporarily you've gotten

rid of the car now you're down to only

$35,000 worth a credit card debt and

negotiating with your soon Tobe ex-wife

over the 401K in the house yes cuz the

credit card debt is going to be split down the middle you're going to get your 35 she's going to get her 30 you're

probably going to give up half your 401k

or you can give her a credit towards the house and sell the house right how much is in the

401K uh 35 35,000 so 17 of the equity in

the house can go to her instead of

giving up your 401k and sell the house

and give her her half plus 17 which is

probably almost the whole thing but don't let the house stay in the deal do

not don't do not let her have the house because you're on the mortgage and then she doesn't pay it you're screwed right Force the sale of the

house split the proceeds minus your half

of the 401K that you're going to have to give up anyway and that way your 401k stays intact yes you walk out of this with a

401k and only $35,000 with a credit card

debt and a hoopie now you can talk about

going over the road and making some money and clean up

the 35,000 right quick okay but you're being managed by

emotion because your heart's broken one

minute you're pissed the next minute and

you're broken terrified the next minute

yes sir I understand man I've been there it's no fun and so I I Haven been

through the divorce part of it been through the rest of it though and it is no fun so laying out a detailed factual

game plan with math remove some of the

emotion from it and that's what I just gave you so go back and listen to this

on YouTube or on podcast or however so I

because I gave you the exact plan of what to do and and what I what I laid

out is negotiable and if she won't do it

take it before the judge he'll make her do it this is the Ramsey

[Music]

Show [Music]

so one of the most popular things we have done in many years is about 2

months ago we started doing

free webinars

with Jade warshaw Rachel Cruz and George

camel each of them doing free webinars

with the every dollar budgeting app showing you how to build out your budget why to build out your budget and uh

couples are jumping on for free and watching the webinar and you can interact with the webinar you can actually ask questions live live chat a Q&A Box live chat while we're going and

a what box a Q&A box box so you thr

stuff so there's interaction it's not just George squawking at you or Jade or

Jade or Rachel's walking at you and uh

so we're doing these free online budgeting trainings uh go to

everydollar.com budgeting and between now and the end of

the year each one of those three will be

doing three or four of these and so

George Rachel Jade uh you can jump on

choose which one or just pick the night or day or whatever that the time is convenient for you it's completely free

very interactive very helpful on the

every dooll bud budgeting app on how to

get a plan together cuz if you don't have a plan you know it's like Zig

Ziggler used to say if you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time and my

friend John Maxwell says a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went every

doll.com budgeting get registered for

the free webinars George what do they

get if they go to yours well we give

away stuff and uh that's I like to bribe

people with that so we'll give away some stuff we have a a killer you really are you just making a no we really do we've given away U I already give away your

services I know we gave away some books and products and things like that for those that are brave enough to ask a question in front of you know 3,000 virtual people CU that's there is a cap even though it's digital they cap the room size so you got to make sure you sign up we'll also send you a replay if

you miss it a lot of people say hey I can't make that time sign up anyways you

can go back and watch the whole thing there you go and free stuff for the people that do attend and ask a question and you bribe people for their involvement you got but people do get really interactive I've heard the stor yeah we've had great feedback back just showing them we don't have time on the air to show you how it all works but that webinar is where we do it Olivia is

in Madison Wisconsin hi Olivia welcome

to the Ramsey Show hi Dave hi George thank you for

taking my call sure what's up um so my

question is about student loans um I

currently have um a um I have around

three let's see 105,000 in student loans um and it's

broken up between um a private uh

University Foundation loan and then Federal loans um and my question is um

the the Federal Loan is broken up into

smaller loans yes um some of them are

subsidized some are unsubsidized yes and

so my question is how do I prioritize

that do I or do I just pay the private

and then the federal I'll tell you how I did did it

10 years ago I laid them all out from smallest balance to largest balance that's called the debt snowball method and I ignore the interest rates just black them out if you have to because it gets real confusing and overwhelming and

all you do is you focus on that smallest balance first my guess is it's one of those little Federal loans yes what's the smallest balance

you got um I believe the smallest one is

about five or 6,000 of one of the the

Federal loans yeah what do you

make um my husband and I make um about

115 great so how quick you gonna pay

that five off oh we can pay the five off in um

probably couple months Max yeah or more

I was think two paychecks yeah okay

quick quick quick how yeah all of these

um Federal loans are under one service you need to call them you need to pay the minimums and then call them and get

them on the phone which is a pain in the butt because they're incompetent but

call them and get them on the phone and demand that the money you transfer right then goes on that loan because if you

mail it to them or you make it one check for all the minimums and that they will screw it up and spread it across all of them because they're

incompetent okay up until now we've just

been paying um what across all across

all of them yeah and nothing happens yeah you don't see any movement but I want that little one knocked out cu when that little one's knocked out your payment changes okay and drop down and then more

and more and more the debt snowball rolls but if you don't knock out the little one then the Deb snowball doesn't roll meaning every time you pay off

something that has a payment with the debt snowball that old payment now gives

you extra money to throw on the next one

but if the old payment is zero then it

doesn't give you any extra money to throw on the next one so you got to call them and each stinking month make sure

they're doing the right one the right one the right one when you're on one of the little small federals yeah and you can also see

online it may break them out you may be able to apply that to the principle but

I'm not sure if these websites if you can be if you can make sure on the website you could try it one month and see if it drops the principal on that singular debt rather than spread across

all of them but I got to tell you they're it's the worst it's the federal

government I mean user experience the

incompetence of the IRS the incompetence

of the federal government shows up here

like you never believe these people's parents are cousins it's just awful

they're just horrible and so uh it's a

it's a disaster the whole student loan

debacle is a disaster So the faster you

get it in the rearview mirror the better your life is going to be good question

thanks for joining us Miguel is in San

Antonio hi Miguel welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi daavid and George how youall

doing better than we deserve what's up

that's right um so I'm 22 years old U I

have a car payment at sitting at 10,000

left to be paid off that's the only debt I have um originally the car started at

18,000 I had it for two years and so

I've been trying to pay it down much

ahead of time to so I can get that completely finished out um and I do have

the money to pay it off right now I could pay it off today but that is

pretty much everything that I have so

you ow you owe how much

today uh today it's it's just under

10,000 it's at 9,000 okay and how much

money do you have um I have 12,000 right now do you so I

would still have I make around 40,000 a

year good and what other debt do you have other than the stupid car I don't have any other debt good pay

it off today man it leaves you with what three grand and no car payment yeah and

and and that doesn't include my um

emergency fund I still have an emergency F of a thousand okay no no no you're

starter emergency fund you're starter so

now you got three you got three grand four grand yeah and now you your next

goal is to build that four grand up to 3 to 6 months of expenses which in your

case is probably about a $10,000 emergency

fund okay and without a car payment

you'll get there even faster yeah yeah it's so with that yes that I

should pay it off um one more thing I'd

like to add on to the story now is that

I am engaged congratulations a wedding

when when's the wedding uh we just signed the contract

for two years almost exactly two years

so two years long ways away man why two

years um my my fiance is still going

through graduate school and I actually work at a university so she's going to

be able to get graduate school paid for

with uh my benefit there not if you're

not married the blessing we are planning to

get married legally first and then so

that she can get that benefit and then we're going to have a wedding in the church because we are uh

Catholic and we do want to get married in the church okay so

what does the Catholic Church charge you to get married well we wanted we've been dating

for six years and we wanted to we've had

a lot of different people come to our

lives been a part of our story we wanted to have something um so we have a budget

of around 20 to 25,000 and and with it being just me

right now you're talking about actually getting married when

legally 20 legally would be

um pretty much the beginning of 2024 in

February okay and then then then your

husband and wife the other things you're just going to have a party exactly okay and so you're going

to save up for a $220,000 party I don't give a flip when you have your $20,000 party you can have that whenever you want you're now husband and wife and you

have a paid for car tada

it doesn't change anything dude matter of fact it it actually makes it more sense for you to pay off the thing today with that combined income $10,000 is not going for the party two years from now for sure while you have a stinking car payment you're going to save up new money to pay for the party or not this

is the Ramsey

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Show

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us America Jacob and Taylor are on the debt

free stage in the lobby of ramsy

solutions how are you well great how are

you better than I deserve welcome where do you guys live so we're from Tulsa

Oklahoma oh fun welcome to Nashville how

much debt did you pay so we paid off

about 182,000 good for you how long did that

take too long but about eight years okay

good and and uh what was your range of

income during that time so we started

about 70,000 7075 and then up to about5

cool what do youall do for a living so I'm a mechanic at Alexa Steeler in Tulsa

M uh after I graduated college I ended

up in the nonprofit field for about seven and a half years uh but now I'm a stay-at-home dog Mom I have a network

marketing business and I'm a part-time braa okay good for you cool all right

what kind of debt was the 182,000 so it was student loan for her

and then and then our mortgage oh paid off your house look at them weird people

I love that so what is this house worth

in Tulsa it's worth about 280 now way to

go guys nice house we're seeing it on

YouTube here nice picture yeah and it's

all yours all ours how old how old are

you two weirdos so I'm 33 I just turned

32 last week you have a paid for house

do you know anyone that's 33 with a paid for house other than George he was a

huge inspiration for us very very big

that means the world well I'm amazed that this trend keeps happening I feel like we're seeing it more and more their

20 30s late 20s early 30s coming in here

with a paid off house definitely yeah we're it's very exciting do you know I mean any of your friend group got a paid for house I don't think so not that I

know of yeah they'd be talking about it

if they did yeah that's true very true

they'd be here too where did this idea even come from how did you guys get started on this ramay way eight years ago yeah yeah good question uh so right

after I graduated college is when we got

married married and we actually got

Financial Peace University membership as

a wedding gift and so I'd love to give a shout out to Tracy a family friend who gifted that to us and that changed

everything for our family so we took it

about 3 months after we got married and

I remember sitting there the second or third week and and I was like we have to

teach this like we people need to know about this and so we went through the

class and um we kind of did things a

little a little out of order we actually like bought our home during the class

but turns out we did it right we put 20%

down it's a 15year loan all of that so all of that was right but then we um you

know ventured on the the student loan

and we got that done it was 38,000 and

we got that done in 22 months good so we

knocked that out pretty quickly and so

um right after that class was over we started teaching um so we've coordinated

uh nearly 15 classes now super thank you

we love it absolutely love it super coordinators you got to follow the stuff at that point the whole class is look at you have you led one since paying off the house um we had one this summer so

we got to celebrate with them and then we'll have another one in January so

really kept us accountable you know working with each of the classes and and

sharing our story and all of that so it's like your personal trainer having a six-pack like this is a good sign I'm in

the right place when I'm in your class

way to go yes we're excited so we um in

a lot of ways I guess a huge part of our

story is um you know we've had emergencies come up just like anybody else um we've replaced our AC unit had a for

night Hospital stay and we also Jacob is

working on his bachelor's and so we're cash flowing that and so that's part of

the reason why maybe it's taken a little bit longer and what are you studying Jacob uh mechanical engineering oh very

good okay how much longer do you have uh

about a year oh wow good for you that's

going to be a great breakthrough for you yeah but it's been a been almost fiveyear process so but all part time

yeah exactly so and as newlyweds we've

we've done a lot lot of traveling um

we've done a couple of international trips we've been all over the United States but all with cash all without

credit cards um and so that certainly

has you know extended our um you know

our our deadline I guess but the goal was always to pay off for home seven years early yeah um and that's exactly

what we did so hit the goal we did it's

been really exciting really well once you're out of baby steps 2 and three

travel is allowed it just slows down you

slows down how much you put on baby step six or buying a car is allowed or going

the Schools allowed it just slows down how much you put on baby step 6 but you still did all of that and did the house

in seven years yes that's pretty cool

yeah we sure did it's been been fun it's

been living proof this stuff still works

yes exactly every day yeah and in a lot

of ways too um Jacob and I are both

natural givers um and so outside of our

mortgage our giving category and our

budget was actually one of the largest

and so we were kind of practicing baby

step seven even kind of before we got there so so you know the travel and and

the the giving part of that you know we

give to things that we're passionate about we just couldn't wait to do that so amen good for you yeah good for you

okay now how's it feel when you walk through the backyard and you don't have any payments feels nice it really does I

mean you don't we don't necessarily like

worried if that payment was going to be there the first of the month but it's

nice not having to like even having to

worry about that have y'all walked back in the backyard and stood and looked at the house and went that's ours mhm we have actually yes yes front back walk through the

grass Barefoot yeah pictures neighbors

are going what are they doing over exactly yes they do a lot of celebrating over there I don't know that's good good

for you what do you tell people in your class the secret to getting out of dead is oh man number one on my list is

tithing that's been just the Forefront

of our mind and why do you think that is

man when you live life like this you

know it it's just better than opened yes

yeah it's just better than you can than

you can dream or imagine and so uh

blessings have come from that and and certainly you know since we have led 15

Financial Peace University classes we watch the videos 15 times and so um you

know just keeping up with that and and having a group to walk through that with has been a really crucial part so yeah

the accountability and the open-handedness yeah what about you Jacob I think it's a lot of it is not

living above your means I mean that

we've you know not been in any kind of

dire straight situation but we've also not like saying oh I need to go into

debt for to do this or I need to put

this money towards the trip and not pay off what we need to pay off so I think

it's it's knowing what you need as

opposed to just what you want yeah it's intentionality right yeah yeah way to go

guys I'm so proud of you thank you who

was uh who was cheering you on everybody

everybody yeah um a lot of a lot of my

parents instilled a lot of this into into me from the get-go so they've

always been kind of of that driving force for for me especially not before

we got married and then since since

we've been married they've been you know a constant cheerleading team um so and

then her grandma and then our our friends you know who who know that we're on this journey or were on this journey you know they've always been super supportive and our church family our

community group you know we we've we surrounded by a huge support team wow

that's awesome that makes a big difference yeah and you guys are in your early 30s you got no payments give me

something you're excited to do in the save spend category with no payments now

yeah for sure yeah I mean making our our

giving budget a little bit larger now uh

we're updating our home so like you know

updating the outdoor space and replacing

Windows things like that adulting

adulting exactly yeah so that's any big

trips now you're like this is the big debt-free trip yeah uh actually next May we're

going to go to Italy so we actually uh

at a fundraising Gala prior to covid we

uh won this went a trip through a silent

auction and Co kind of ruined that a

little bit um couldn't go well now we

are 3 years on from it we're actually going to get to go on it and even in a better Financial place than we were then

to go so that's that we're going to kind of use that as our celebratory yeah good

that's awesome it's a good trip well done y'all that's fun yes well

congratulations we're very proud of you

we've got the Liv and give bundle for you because you've been doing a lot of both living and giving so uh baby steps

Millionaire's book you'll be there very soon if you're not already I didn't ask how much you have in retirement how much do you have in retirement we probably

have I'm think we have probably about

100 Grand now with ir you said the house

is worth 300 close to it yeah so you're

about 400 of the million almost on your you're on your way to Baby Steps Millionaire right good way yeah we got that book for you that's your next step and next stop and Total Money Makeover

book maybe to give to one of your class members and a Financial Peace University membership if you find somebody that can't go will assist you in your giving

uh your generosity plunge that you're

taking that's awesome so congratulations

you guys all right Jacob and Taylor

Tulsa Oklahoma 182,000 paid off house

and everything count it down let's hear

a debt-free Scream 3 2 one we're dead

[Applause]

free

w wow excellent

excellent this is the Ramsey

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[Laughter] [Music]

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shot

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our scripture of the day James 1 2 and 3

consider it pure joy my brothers and sisters whenever you face Trials of many

kinds because you know that the testing

of your faith produces

perseverance Franklin Roosevelt said

when you're at the end of your rope tie a knot and hold on Amen Kristen is with

us in Madison Wisconsin hi Kristen

welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave hi George thank you so much

for taking my call sure what's

up um so my husband and I were newly

married uh we just finished baby step

one this month uh we have

$45,000 in Consumer Debt and baby step 2

and as we're laying them out smallest to largest we also have some other pretty

big expenses that aren't necessarily debt and we're just having a hard time figuring out where they should fall in

our snowball what are they we have um so

we have two vehicles one of them we own outright one of them we have a loan for

$6,200 and the one that we have a loan

on is broken down um the rear

differential is completely seized up it's not drivable it's going to be about a $2,000 fix we're hoping to eventually

fix it and then sell it to get rid of it

um also we bought a house at the

beginning of this year and two weeks after we closed on our house the pipes

in the bathroom burst and so that is

currently completely gutted we don't have a shower uh sink um we in that

bathro at all uh that's the only

bathroom we have in our house so we've been showering at our mother-in-law's house um we've been going over there to do that for how long and then um for

about 6 months seven

months yeah she's two blocks away which

is great she's super close but it's

there's nothing great about this this

sucks oh my gosh what a mess and we you

ins wouldn't cover it um well that's the

other part I lost my job recently So

currently my husband is working y need to write a country song an hour we

showered my mother-in-laws and I lost my job yeah it's there's a lot wow so

what's he making he's making $18 an hour right now

doing what uh he's a machine operator what

were you making I was making uh 60k I was a

restaurant manager why'd you lose your

job um I was working in a restaurant um

I loved my job the hours were not great

I was working 60 to 70 hours a week salary so I took a different position in

the same it was another restaurant manager position and I moved over to

that it was going to be 45 hours a week

um and that would salary also so that

would allow me a little more time um but

uh a couple weeks into that they decided that I was not a good fit um and they let me go when was

that that was uh that was in June why

haven't you worked since June well that's the other thing my

husband um he

uh had his driver's license suspended

and the car broke down um so we were

able why did he have his driver's license suspended I can't believe

this it's been suspended for um for

quite a while he had to wait a couple years um there was a period of time DUI

for the points yeah and then for the points to fall off and so he can he's

eligible to get it reinstated now but it

is it's about $800 to pay all the fees

and for everything and then our insurance would go up okay so your excuse is you're a full-time driver for an $18 an hour guy I'm calling bull

crap that was a dumb idea you make more

than he makes yeah and so we were able to share

um we were working in the same town we

were driving yeah back when but now with

him being yeah yeah but now with you not

having a job you used driving him as an

excuse to not get a job so get another job girl couldn't you drop him and then go work and then pick him up or he gets a ride there's a lot what you did

before yeah so we were um I can I'm

looking at getting I've been doing um

applying for jobs there were a couple I got to the second interview um

restaurant manager positions and um you

know they ended up really not going anywhere but now what I'm looking at is

um what would be wrong with M working 60

hours a week now what was wrong with it then you were

broke yeah

um it was mostly the schedule and

driving back and forth and not being

available to pick him up because I had to stay late to solve a problem at work

and um so you lost $60,000 because he

didn't buy an

Uber yeah yeah you need you guys need to

you guys need to both be committed to 60

to 80 hours a week making $20 an hour

and you will solve a lot of these problems you have in a heartbeat instead

you're living in a house that's not even

habitable because you don't even have a

toilet or a shower and you haven't worked since June

you guys have got to go create some money girl you went from 100K down to 36

and you got 45 in debt so if we get you

back to work is not your problem your income the the fact you guys don't make any money is your problem and you don't work much yeah you both need he needs a new job he

needs a new job making 25 an hour and

two extra jobs making 20 an hour and you

need the 60 70 80 hour a week 60 to

80,000 to be the restaurant manager job

and buy an Uber if you're stuck at work

I mean can you wait tables in the meantime

yes um so that's what our next plan was

I can pay $125 to reinstate my CNA I

have to go take the the test but then I

would be able to get my CNA license back and that's I'm sorry what is a CNA

license what is a CNA license CER

certified nurse

assistant and what would that

pay uh $25 an

hour 20 why would you want to do that

when you can make 60 as broke as you are

why don't you go get you some

money I I've been applying for

restaurant manager positions I had two

where I went to the second interview

second interview uh process um I've

applied for for more than those but those are the ones where I was um

interviewed and you guys need to sit down you guys need to sit down and figure out the way on the short term not

what your dream is but the thing you can

do that is moral and legal that allows

you all to work the most hours and make the most money for about two years so

you can get your shower fixed and get your debt paid off but you're not going

to do it with all these theories in all these limitations and you're

finding all kinds of reasons to not do

this stuff um really honestly 50 Grand

solves your whole life 50,000 bucks you could have made

that since June if he was working overtime and you

were still working and so you really

have an income that your perception of work and

your perception of income on a temporary

basis needs to change that is your issue because you guys need

to BU you know $18 and I mean in a in a

world where most people are making 25 to

30 okay uh and no you don't go get a CNA

to make $25 an hour when you have the income potential of 60 to 880,000 at a

restaurant and in the meantime until you

land that you go get six jobs and you

guys work your tail ends off I'm fixing

my freaking toilet and my shower this is

crazy y'all go make some money girl we

want you to win but you you you guys

spend a lot of your mental the in

talking to you there's a lot of mental

gymnastics on how why we can't create an

income there was a lot of them I mean

you're like a a world class gymnast well

I know life has happened to you I know it has but got stuck in your head and

you got this Loop going and I'm trying to force you even if you get mad at me

I'm doing that because I love you I'm trying to force you to rethink your view on work well every question that was

well there's a story behind I know but

we at some point we just have to put it down and do it anyways and go to work anyways do the job we don't want to do anyways yeah exactly yeah you your

$50,000 changes your whole life you

could go make 50 to 100,000 more than

you made in the last 12 months in the next 12 months between the two of you

changing your view on work that's how

that's how fast your life can turn around and and the desperation that you

feel every day when you go to your mother-in-laws to take a shower will go

away that puts us hour of the Ramsey

Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily

with the Prince of Peace Christ

[Music]

Jesus do you love a good day brand want

to see the latest Ramsey Show videos going viral check out your favorite moments from the Ramsey Show on YouTube

go watch And subscribe to the Ramsey Show Channel on

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YouTube

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## 182. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 28, 2023)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRPuhPMKE5I) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:20:01 |

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[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it is the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing

relationships talking about the real thing I am your host Jade warshaw I am joined by maybe my favorite co-host ever

Dr John deloney over here to my right we're going to have a good time give us a call the number is 88255 225 we'll talk about your life we'll talk about your money we'll talk about your mental health and wellness but before we get into that Dr John we were just in the NYC we were in New York City this morning Party in the USA we were partying in

the USA we were in New York um for a media dinner we got to sit and hang out with a whole bunch of cool folks yesterday and then we did some media this morning and then we got on a plane and flew here just in time to save

America I'm like pinching myself somebody has to good grief I'm like what is happening I I went on social media yesterday and I was like all right you know come check out the TV we'll be on Fox news with you know America's Newsroom I was like wow that's crazy then this morning I was like hey come check out the TV we'll be on here with Fox and Friends I was like wow that's crazy our life is just really been cool

and it's all thanks to you guys uh thanks for listening to the show thanks for sharing the show thanks for tuning in whenever we talk we couldn't do it without you guys and without further Ado we got to take it to the phone lines we got Jessica in NYC we just came from

there Jessica what's going on yeah hi well thanks for visiting us

it was fun um I bet um so I am my

husband and I are trying to start to prepare for my retirement um in approximately five years um I am a teacher locally and I will be retiring with a large pension approximately $100,000 a year um but I also have an

opportunity to get a lump thumb um which is quite significant how do you determine what is the best course of action whether to take the pension and I know Dave usually says to take the lump Thum but due to me being so young and

potentially um being able to collect for an extended period of time and get spousal benefits for my husband I just want to know is there a calculator or a formula that you use to um to pick yeah

you know I all I can tell you is what I would do and I'll tell you the reason why I would do it and then if you have some information that kind of contradicts that feel free to share it um the reason I would take the lump sum and in my case you being a little bit younger is actually a good thing cuz I would take the lump sum

and then I would get with a smart Vestor Pro and I'd reinvest it and you are going to get a better rate reinvesting it in good growth stock mutual funds across the four types that we teach you're going to get a better rate of return than you were ever getting with your pension um because even the way we teach it we say like hey we we suggest for people to invest 15% of their income right

but if somebody calls in here and says hey uh I've got a pension and I'm putting you know 10% into it does that count as 10% we tell them no count it for like 5% and we say that because of the rate the rate of return that you're likely getting on that pension and so in your case if I were you you're going to walk away with

so much more money because if you get with the right investor and in the right funds you're going to have an awesome rate of return I mean what are you 50 uh I will be 50 this year so I have

um about five more school years after this one oh yeah that's great and I mean you're going to retire but I'm sure you're going to go on to do other things it's not like I'm going to work I'm a worker I'm so there's no no doubt that I'm not going to work but I am concerned because my husband is not GNA have a pension or a retirement

we do have a four or 3B but I am concerned to make sure that I'm preparing for him and leaving the Legacy for my kids 100% if you take the lump sum how much is it um it's estimated at 1.33 million girl I would do it right

now yep let me let me tell you two other things let me tell you two other things

um the first one is you are never

guaranteed tomorrow right and I wouldn't have a job if everybody lived to to be 95 years old

right and before this I spent a lot of time in homes in the middle of the night hugging husbands because their wives have passed away from and I have had health issu issues I'm a cancer survivor from 36 so so if you imagine your kids and your husband you've got this incredible pension that makes you're getting paid six figures and then you get sick and then something happens and then they're out and he's 60 years old with nothing versus you got this so I it

almost feels safer to me to know I've

got a million dollars in the bank that is going to compound every seven years if invested properly it's going to double and so you're thinking man if I live 21 more years right just to the

average um it'd be a little below average then you would have three four

four million dollar right four and a half I mean so you see what I'm saying minus whatever yall withdrew so I'd pull it out here's the second thing I would tell you and I'm just telling you this like if I was sitting across the table from my mom I personally I don't have any secret

info but I don't see a path forward for

all these pensions to pay out as they've promised similar to Social Security they've been so heavily leveraged and borrowed against and bond it out I don't

trust the fact in 30 years they're going to be paying what they are I just I just I don't see a path forward especially with their grown-ups in Congress acting like children throwing crayons at each other I just don't see it John you make a good point and that's a good thing to remember Jessica is a a pension can die with you like and you mentioned wanting to take care of your family

so that's one thing or if your company goes under that also puts your pension down the tubes if one day New York had we were just there and everyone we talk talked to talked about how New York hasn't come back yet the real estate um you know all those shuttered first floors of all those buildings that used to be just hopping if it would not surprise me

if New York has to um sit down with the union and negotiate and it' be a bloody battle and you know it would be but I just don't I don't see a path forward 30 years from now now hopefully I'm wrong I would do anything to be wrong um but man I'd much rather have $1.1 million in my checking account that's under my control that I get to decide what happens to down

the road than to Hope New York makes good choices because they have don't have a great track record so Jessica you're going to take that money get with that smart Vestor Pro you're going to invest it across four types we teach this all the time 25% into each category you got

growth growth and income aggressive growth and international that's what you want to do that is the path forward do you have any questions well what if we wanted to take some of that money and purchase some real estate oh I would ask I'm going to

hustle anyway I would ask if you are in baby step seven and if you are I would say yes do that becomes part of your your portfolio yeah at that time you will be yes that's the way to do it we're gonna relocate and get off of Long Island which is ridiculous yes ma'am that's the way to do it when you're in baby step 7 you pay cash for real estate

and you become even wealthier than you already are which is pretty dang incredible I love calls like that John it's awesome very cool and thank you for being a teacher and I'm looking at the statistics um jade and Jessica thank you

for not just quitting this year I know that's right you're going to ride out for five more years thank you those kids in New York are lucky to have you yeah and you're modeling for them what a hard worker looks like and a thinker looks like I'm so grateful that's awesome in more ways than one I love how she's wanting to take care of her family I love

when people really dial into um their money not just for the now but for the future because the the choices we make can cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars when it comes to investing what we're looking at what we're not looking at so I always admire when people are smart enough and diligent enough uh and intentional enough to call in and really get the right advice for their money hey

and by the way this is just an INE equals one experiment but my parents both changed careers in their 50s and they are incredible into their 70s so your husband says he's not going to have anything he could if he chose right now to start doing something different it's not too late this is the Ramsey

Show

[Music]

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[Music]

Ramsey

[Music]

what's going on everybody you're listening to the Ramsey show thank you for listening I'm your host Jade warshaw joined by John deloney give us a call we'd be happy to take your call we'll discuss whatever you want to as long as it has something to do with your money or your mental health John over here is

really the best guy to talk about mental health and wellness tell them what you do John I'm not the best there's some really good ones out there but we'll talk to you about your relationships mental health whatever's going on in your world your emotional health life has gotten sideways for everybody and it's a mess it's a mess I like the way you talk about things though because for me there's no like lingo like it's not over my head it's like oh

I can do that like that's me he's talking to me so that's one of the things I like about the way you speak to the People John including me I'm one of those people but give us a call Tri 825 5225 and we'll

chop it up we got Ashley in Columbus Ohio what's going on Ashley

Hi how are you both doing good how are you I'm good I'm a little nervous so I wrote down my question that's awesome um just a slight just a slight background I've had three surgeries in a year and a half so the fact that John boney's on here talking about mental health these surgeries have definitely wait on me mentally um because of that we slid back

into baby step two due to all of the medical bills um that we accured with

that um we were making really great Headway until earlier this month we received a letter in the mail stating that we had a $2,000 bill that was about to go into collections um we had never

received notice of this bill prior um so when we inquired more about it um it was from 2021 to two years ago for physical therapy from my first surgery um we got

negotiated down from the 2,000 to about 1300 okay um however we're having a problem with the office giving us a final bill in writing that that is our

going to be our final notice and I don't want to be on the hook for $600 when I can't get anything in writing and honestly I just want these medical bills gone for for my mental can you my mental health and wellbeing have you driven over there um I have um and I've talked to a supervisor and they said we'll give you date that you know that it went over it came down to a dispute from my prior insurance and my prior employer um but

they're not give willing to give me anything in writing other than the dates and the most recent Bill we got was 1,800 so it came down a little bit but I'm afraid again we're going to be on the hook for all of that if we can't get something in writing do you have it I have a voicemail from them do you

have $1800 um not really we've got our $1,000

emergency fund and slightly over that we have about 12 and so we're working pretty quickly to get all of that um you

said the bill was col you said the bill was in collections right no it was the final notice prior to collection okay got it got it um let me

tell you what I would do and Jade tell me if I'm wrong I'll do just about anything for

peace in my home and I would probably um

as your husband as your neighbor as your

somebody that went to church with you as as your as your sister I would go drive

Uber I would go babysit I'd go wash cars I'd go do something and scr scrun up this money and just pay the stupid Bill and be done move on I it's so yeah and that's what my husband I talked about as well I it's just not worth my soul now my friend George Campell would he would he would get a tent and Via very bougie nice tent

because that's how he rolls but he would go park it in front of the hospital and he would or in front of the PT place and he would sit there every day until they finally so that's how he rolls it's everybody's different I personally if they did the if they actually did the therapy and and they did the work that they're claiming that they did I would pay them

the money and be done with it I'd try to figure out a way to make iten and here's the other thing you know this as well as I do one of the things that surgery the

mental health toll surgery takes is there's that scary sense that my body let me down right there's something about me that's not working right and then there's that pervasive pain that hurts all the time and they work you through therapy to slowly take teeny tiny little baby steps with that pain one of the ways you regain trust in yourself is not

through standing in front of the standing in front of the mirror and manifesting it's a whole bunch of little wins and my promise is if you and your husband scr and scratch and Claw and get 1,800 bucks and just get this stupid thing paid over paid out even though it's going to cost you some time you're going to miss some te- ball games you're going to miss whatever

you will stand a little bit taller that's a path right you'll have little step little step little step boom y'all are done you're out of our life and then you'll say all right we did it and then that will catapult you into getting back to Baby Steps three and four and on okay yeah and that's that's kind of was our second um kind of our fallback like hey

if we have no choice but to pay the 1800 and we don't take the discount then that's kind of the end of the the story with that and we move on to the next medical bill um and I agree with what you said it you know I do feel like my body has failed me since it's it's my series it's that's how literally it's exactly how I feel yeah M

and one of the best ways to get confidence back in your body is to slowly begin to use it again right both intellectually both working really hard towards a towards a purpose purposeful goal and doing physical things right and it's just one of those things that it you you feel like I'm going to do this workout and tomorrow I'm going to feel like a million bucks and

you don't you look in the mirror and you kind of look the same it's little bitty things that accumulate over time and then suddenly something's going to happen and you're going to be strong and you're going to think oh wow I'm back right it's awesome it just takes a bunch of little steps over and over and over and it's disciplined and it's annoying and it's slow and

it just happens and it happens and you're all going to get there and get it done I agree with that wholeheartedly I'd pay it um I want you to keep every piece of paperwork on this I want you to keep this paper trail especially if it's been inconsistent the

thing that's probably consistent is the account number so they'll be a if there's ever a discrepancy you'll be able to see hey this account went from 2000 to 1,800 I paid it you know you'll always be able to see that so always keep the paperwork um especially if you are dealing with a collections uh company you definitely want to keep the paperwork because those Jokers will come back you know five six seven years later talking about you didn't pay because you made a settlement so always keep the paperwork always in a file folder and do

not give them your checking account number they're going to ask you for the routing number so they can just um direct withdraw it do not oh that's such a good point don't don't don't send a money order or have your bank wire it but do not do not do not do not do not give them your in information cuz you'll have money leaking out of your account for

the rest of your life absolutely yeah in this case definitely case all right let's go to Manuel oh no let's go to Nia she's in Orlando Florida what's going on Nia hi how you doing doing good how are

you good um so I just had a question uh

me and my husband just recently decided

uh to do the baby steps good um we uh um

our income just recently dropped because he lost his job uh from like 880,000 to

50,000 um and we're already kind of like living paycheck to paycheck uh before that um so I wanted

to know if we should catch up on pass du

Bills first before uh saving an

emergency fund um or do we do the

emergency fund catch up on pass the bills and then go into pay the

day so I want I do want you to do the baby steps in the order I do want you to get cuz here's the thing that ,000 if you don't have that money you're going to just go you're you're just going to go more and more into debt and these things are going to get more and more past due but the key to making this work because

I don't want you to rob peter to PayPal the key to making this work is you've got to get that income back up um he lost his job what's he doing in the

meantime um I have uh he's been kind of

working my business um I have a

bakery uh so are you paying him

we no money that we get so it started

off as a hobby like literally since we needed extra money like I literally pop a 10 out in my front yard in the house and we just sell like cupcakes and stuff to the neighborhood and whoever walks past that's great for you Nia but right now right now he's got to get a job that pays I want him applying to like eight

jobs today and this is not the the beond and all this is whatever's local this Home Depot this Amazon this is whatever he can get very quickly and start making money very very quickly I'm going to give you a couple of numbers so you see how quickly this needs to happen the average person gets their $1,000 saved in 30 days that means you're selling stuff that means

you are working day and night that means if cupcakes are making you a little bit of money but you can make more money doing instacart this week in this month you're doing instacart stop stop making kicks yeah right now we're doing whatever is going to make us the most money because not only you need to get this thousand saved you got to get caught up on your bills

and if it's rent we're getting caught up on that one first if it's IRS we're doing that one second then we're working the debt snowball this is the ramsy

[Music]

[Music]

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more [Music]

[Music]

thank you for listening you're listening to the ramsy show I'm Jade warshaw your co-host with together with Dr John

deloney we're taking your calls all afternoon longle 8825 5225 we're going

to do it up with the neighborly question of the day today's question of the day is brought to you by neighborly your hub for Home Services neighborly is your one place to find Reliable HVAC plumbing and electrical providers near you Brands like airserve Mr rder Mr Electric have

local professionals ready to help so stop wasting time scrolling through pages of results when you can just visit neighbor.com today all right today's question comes from Josh in Oregon Josh writes I have no debt except for the house and I have one credit card I've never paid a penny of credit card interest I treat it like a debit card and pay it off every two to three days

next year my husband and I will acrw $122,000 in medical bills due to having a baby and my husband's medical condition meaning our insanely High max out of pocket my brother recently showed me a few credit cards that have a $11,000 bonus if you spend $4,000 in the

first three months since we have medical bills and the cash to pay the bills he suggested we get the credit card and use it to pay our bills get the credit card bonuses and immediately pay it off with cash I know you're very against credit cards but what is your opinion on this go you called the wrong

show um yeah dude you called the wrong show and I think that you should go with your first instinct because you said basically what does it say John she said that she knows that we don't do credit cards right I think she said that on there except except hold on she's special she's special and there's a medical condition a baby and oh so she's

the exception to the rule correct oh well in that case I'm still going to have the same advice that we always have

no credit cards I would never ever ever and this is being real I would never ever ever suggest anybody to use a credit card really ever the only time is

if for some reason they had like a maybe

if they were upside down on a car right and their credit was shot and so they couldn't go to a credit union you know to get a little extra money to get out of that upside down situation then maybe I'd say okay do it on a credit card right because you're going from a large amount of debt to a much much smaller amount of debt that is

the only time you would probably ever hear me say the words here's how you could use a credit card but in this situation you have money you have money and $11,000 to

shuffle around debt in order to get $11,000 in in in the time it took me to answer this call you could find a more productive way to make $1,000 doll I'm just saying all right so here's my two here's my two challenges with this I actually get the math on it yeah the math is fine you'll make your money cool assuming everything goes according everything goes perfectly right so I know the stress of having a baby I know the stress of having medical conditions I don't know why anyone would elect to

add additional stress to that situation I know to add more chaos like okay we got to remember to pay this one off because this one's got 1 th000 we're going to roll this one over to the 4,000 and then we're going to spend this in the three months we got to make sure we get this bill back I don't know why anyone would do that that's number one okay

but that's not enough for the math the math folks I get that too it's everything is worth it if you get that $ thousand doar or whatever here's my beef these credit card companies are not

your friend and so you are the rare and when

I say rare you're an albino unicorn okay

you don't exist in their world because if people like you existed in Mass they would close they'd go bankrupt they wouldn't exist you pay it off every two to three days cool so that $1,000 bonus you're going

to get is going to be paid for with late

charges by that single mom who cannot breathe in Southern Arizona whose husband just left her and she can't see

the light of day somebody's paying that thousand bucks and it sure as crap ain't the credit card company and if it's not you it's people that they've been praying on that they are desperate

that's why I quit using them when it came to Airline points I travel all over the place it makes perfect sense for me I'll just get reimbursed and I'll get all these free miles and it occurred to me wait a minute those flights aren't free I love flying Southwest but they are not my friend they're are great service that I give money to so somebody's paying for those flights

and we dug into it it's people who are in deep terrifying financial trouble and those are the folks that call the show every day those are the folks that email us and DM us every day and they're literally dying inside that's a that's

I'm not going to let a single mom who can't breathe pay for me to have $1,000 in bonus cash or a free flight to Dallas I refuse to be a part of that game I love that I I actually really like that way of thinking about it um and I think that probably if you were to take a poll of all the various Ramsay folks here we'd all have a different reasoning for the credit cards and I love that reason that's definitely something to chew on um my reasoning is

slightly different but similar but different my reasoning behind it I mean we can get into math stuff and you know debt and all of that but mine is and and you can tell me what you think about this John I don't like a company who a a

mass majority of their profit and revenue is based on people defaulting

failing failing the customer has to fail forom has to fail for them to make money of course they get money on transactional fees and all these other things but the money that they acrew in late fees and overbalance I'm like wait

a second cuz I can go there's plenty of companies out there I can go to Jordan brand and buy a pair of shoes and I don't have to fail in any way in order to get the service that's right like I can go over to Publix use their you know grocery store service or Instagram and or instacart you know grocery shopping app I don't have to fail in any way to get value from their service anytime a business's main profit source is

the failure of their customer thank Blockbuster they didn't make money on renting movies they made money on your late fees you had to lose you have to lose for them to win they will go away

yeah if you provide a service like an incredible shoe that has value that looks cool and we're just here to serve you we want to give you fashion I'll give you my money you give me fashion right that's a fair but if they fall apart or if when the new Jordans came out if they suddenly pushed a button like maybe one uh fruit company that makes cell phones does

and they push the secret button and your phone starts working not as well right yes the big red button they only make money when their customers fail yeah I have a major problem with that and then okay let's keep let's keep rolling this out cuz we got time on this clock John so there's that part let me tell you my next part about credit cards they get into your psyche

and they have told us for decades you can't exist without us and so Brick

by Brick they've toorn down our confidence to be able to handle money as individuals because they've said hey your paycheck's not enough you working hard 40 hours a week is not enough you need supplement you need extra you need

more you need to be able to keep up and here's how you can do that we'll give you this piece of plastic we'll loan you our money at insane interest rates and now there you go now you're good go play and so now we talk to folks all the time who call in and they're like Jade I'm terrified I'm terrified to cut up my credit card it has nothing to do with um

I want to get the points and the rewards and this no I'm just scared that I won't be able to manage my money without this safety net that I've had in my life for 5 10 15 years that's crazy and I hate

that a company has had the ability to destroy our confidence in that way to just go oh yeah yeah if I mean if I make $3,000 a month I just I can only spend $3,000 a month like I can go into I have the confidence to say I go into the grocery store and I just only spend $200

I have the ability to tell myself no and I have the ability to say oh if I say this is the goal and this is the plan yeah I'm confident that I can stick to that but we've totally wiped that out of our Consciousness and out of our confidence and now we're like oh I don't think I can say no like I don't think that I can actually stick to

this I better keep that piece of plastic as my fail safe so that's that's argument number three you got another one I got I got a number four let's go so they're going to give you a $1,000 bonus if you spend $4,000 in the first 3 months cool

what they are banking on is that you're

going to spend $4,000 in the first three months they're going to give you a th000 bucks they'll get that money back oh yeah they will get that money back and here's how the research shows you spend more money when you're swiping plastic than when you're paying with cash or even coming out of your debit card yes and so you might pay this thing off every two to three days

but you are expenses are higher percentage wise than if you were just carrying cash around that's right because it doesn't doesn't matter you're going to pay it off later so they're going to get their ,000 back in transaction fees that you otherwise wouldn't be spending they're going to get their money back opt out of the game

don't play with Predators man do not play the game we're not playing with you guys when it comes to these credit cards we are only going to tell you what we know to be true this is the ramsy

[Music] show [Music]

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you are listening to the Ramsay show I am Jade warshaw this is John delone we're with you all afternoon give us a call 88255 225 we just came from New

York City uh where we do something really cool there John um you know we get the opportunity to go on different people television shows news networks

podcasts and there's a lot of people that go into making that happen so many folks behind the scene producers and Bookers and all these people and I think Ramsey does something really cool by hosting a dinner to just say thank you to just appreciate all the people that let us let us near them and let us on their Airwaves and trust us and it was really cool to see that um how much goes

into that and so in the spirit of that I

really just want to say thank you to those listening now thank you guys so much for listening to the podcasts the YouTube channels everything I mean the fact of the matter is John and I would be unemployed if it were not for you and

so we're just super duper grateful um I don't think we say it enough thank you and let's um let's let's show show

people a little bit behind the curtain um he would never do this on the air but Dave's a Gruff guy on the air and he's tells it like it is you know it's when you see see Dave um in the the the lower

basement of a building and the way he

interacts with and tips the Bell hops in the shadows that nobody will ever see yeah and the way he said 10 years ago

man we're going on all these people's shows and there's the the hosts in front of the cameras M but there's all these people behind the scenes making this thing happen and their life is they're up at 3:30 in the morning they're making up all the all the shows making sure everything's running gun doing far more work than way more work far more work than us and Dave said we've been blasted beyond measure I'm going to fly my whole team up to New York

and we're going to take care of them for a night and so it's just that there's a generosity that's staggering behind closed doors um this just pretty cool to be a part of it is very cool but just want to take that moment and kind of let you know what's going on let us know that we thank you guys for listening if you enjoy the show it means

so much to us that you even have the grace in just to share it that you click subscribe all of that means so so much to us not only does it help us but it helps somebody else uh they get the message out they get the word they get that that that message that's going to change their money that's going to change their mind that's going to change their family it's

so so so important thank you and with that we're going to go to man well in Houston Tas what's

going on hello guys thank you for having me you're welcome thanks for calling in what's going on uh so I'm actually in a big mess um

so I have a backstory I'm a starter so you guys understand okay uh about a year ago I went through a really bad pH of

depression and well I made some dumb mistakes that I'm now paying for um I got myself into $70,000 of uh

debt I purchased things I I knew I couldn't afford but I just didn't care at the moment and well today I'm making

uh roughly about $20,000 a year maybe a little less than than that I am working on getting my uh CDO my commercial driver's license so I can make more money uh it's just this is really hard to get right now but to break it down for you I have about 19 or 18,000 in

credit cards and uh personal loans debt

okay I have uh bought a car uh it's a

very expensive car you guys are going to be so angry on me how much it was

$50,000 I now own 46,000 on it and I

also about a motorcycle that I owe like 5,000 on it you owe 5,000 on the motorcycle yeah okay um which do you

want to get first do you want to get John's take or do you want to get Jade's take you get to choose but you're gonna get both uh either one all right here's the deal man first thing before you get going I need you when this call is over to go look in the mirror and look yourself dead in the eye okay I need you to say the following I

screwed up but I'm not a screw up the game changes right now okay yeah I need you to repeat that

over and over and over I'm worth fixing all this stuff okay the funny thing you calling me and Jade 70,000 bucks doesn't make either of us blink because we've both had way way way more debt than that okay and both of us have gone through ups and downs so same team all right um

the $50,000 car that you owe 46 Grand on that's sold by the end of next week right yeah and after I selling the car already uh I just owe so much money on it and uh they will only give me like 34,000 have any money to uh pay for the upside down when you looked on if you look on kellybluebook.com what's the car worth or have you done that yet I've done it yeah $35,000 so it's worth 35 you owe 46 so

10K upside down yeah 9k all right um

we're going to deal with that we're still getting out of this car cuz at this point 40,000 is worth it to take a $10,000 hit so we're going to talk about that why oh real quick why are you only making $20,000 man um well uh I don't know how to do

msh um that's not true don't I don't believe that for one second not for one second yeah that's not true yeah can you deliver pizzas yes can

you drive Uber yes can you go find a construction site of all those building sites out in Houston and just throw brick yes hey yeah yes you don't want to

work you're going to work tomorrow right and you think that what you know how to do is not important and it is important because that's what's going to keep food on your table that's what's going to pay off your debt it is so important yeah I agree are you so let's let's change that hey are you in manuell

yeah I'm in okay we we believe in you

and we can't believe in you more than you believe in you okay yes sir yeah

okay uh we're locking that in so $20,000

I know you're working to get your D your

you know to so you can drive trucks CDL but in the meantime there's almost anything that you can do is going to make you more than $20,000 McDonald's if you're working 40 plus hours a week and I want you working I mean are you a single guy do you have kids uh well I have a girlfriend that don't count that doesn't count Felicia and

look in this season we're eating at home in this season it's McDonald's at home and it's Bob cuz you don't have any money okay and let her understand like hey right now I've got to focus on getting my life together I don't have the money to do to I I like you a lot but I don't have the money to just be taking you out to whining

and dining you not that you're doing that much anyway on 20,000 but I certainly don't want you using a credit card to do that so the game changes today we're going to get another job any job I want you doubling your income in the next month or two all right and you can do that we're doing that that's a yes all right yeah next thing is I want

you out of this car how's your credit I'm guessing it's in the toilet yeah it's terrible I

completely destroy my credit when I took all these loans and I'm actually miss payments already I just can't afford to make those uh to make some payments anymore on my credit cards and personal loans yeah I need you so are you current on the car or you're behind I'm current on my car uh just because I need the car I live in a big city I need to move around can you go sell that motorcycle this weekend for 5,000 bucks 100% I'm

also upside down on the motorcycle I don't care how much how far uh they only give me like 3,000 I owe 5,000 so I'm like two grand upside if I were you I would try to get I would try to find the difference um if you can't get a loan or a personal loan I try again this is the one time I'd suggest a credit card see

if you can find you know a 10 or $15,000 balance so you can get out of this car give them the 10,000 clear the Gap then take 5,000 to get you a cash car you're buying buy a car in cash do your research get the best car that you can get and you're going to be $40,000 Less in debt sound good yeah I I mean I've tried that already

I used to work at a dealership for like two years and um I know how the I know how that works it's just that I I I there's no way nobody will give me a loan for that uh I've tried selling I've tried getting a loan for so I can get another car and drive it around but you know I'm just too deep in the hole I guess all right

then the next the next play is I want you to look deeper into that but the next play here is you've got to get your income up because at the end of the day here's what here's what we know is true you can pay debt off as long as you stop creating debt you can dig yourself out of the hole when my husband and I started out with debt man well

I want you to hear this we made 30,000 combined we had

$460,000 of debt when I tell you things

are possible it's possible but it

demands you getting stupid on this debt

it demands you working working so hard to get your income up and I'm not talking about overnight this is year over-year month over month gains you're growing you're getting better you're earning more money you're decreasing what you spend and over time your life is going to change you're seeing the value and what you put out into the world and that's what I need you to get out of

this call you can do it when it comes to your money you can tell me that you won't do it but don't tell me that you can't this is the ramsy

show hey what's up guys it's Jade if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsay Solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I am Jade warshaw joined by John deloney we're taking your calls all afternoon your life your money your mental health give us a call the number is 8825 5225 we're happy you're here we're

happy that you trust us with your situations thank you for doing that and uh let's go straight to the phone lines we got Carlos in Los Angeles California what's going on Carlos hi can you guys hear me we can oh

perfect hi well actually I can't believe I'm on this gu I just I discovered you guys uh like last week last Thursday

YouTube and the podcast yeah so what do you think so far welome to our crazy gang yeah man and I literally fall asleep like last week and let me give you a backstory so I've been listening to you guys non-stop since last week you know

I'm I'm 31 fiance is 29 and on Saturday

we had a p of finances because I was listening to you guys hey Carlos talk hey hey Carlos talk directly into your phone for me uhhuh oh okay sorry I apologize um so we talk about site about

like having a budget maybe she was angry at the time I

can't hear you brother are you are you on speaker phone hold on Carlos Carlos can't hear you man Carlos Carlos Carlos can't hear you brother we can't hear you hey we might have to come back to you in a minute because we really couldn't hear you next time uh we'll get the call back but get off speaker phone or wherever you were getting better service and then we'll be able to help you out until we get Carlos back let's go to Brian in Philadelphia what's up Brian hey how are you good what's

up um so I just had a quick question I don't really have any sort of um issue

with saving money but my question is about uh student loan debt uhuh um I got

lucky with it and I got half of my college paid for and I went to a cheap School sweet um so I only have about

12,500 um I have more than enough saved

up where I could just pay that off and not have you know not have that debt right but um I have not been making

payments on it due to the pause and thinking that maybe um it'll be it'll be

canel or at least $10,000 so my question is is it worth just tackling and knocking out or is it a better idea to just continue making payments and Brian

you love it does it make you feel warm do you love it do I love what the

loan I do not love the loan now like when nobody's around do you go in like your room and shut the door and just hug it do you love it Brian the dream of the

dream of forgiveness died several months back pay it off right now what are you doing pay it off and and um I'm going to say something and it

might sting okay um pay off your student loan

and and do it with knowing inside your heart man this is awesome that I have the money to pay this off because so many folks call our show

and they don't have the money to pay it off not today and not for a couple for several years on down the line and when you wait out for forgiveness people who didn't even take out student loans or have their own they're fitting the bill

and so when you have the money to pay pay so that other people who didn't even have student loans aren't going to have to pay through any type of who knows what'll come down the pipe you know next election year or whatever maybe somebody's going to talk about forgiveness again but always remember nothing is free like first rule of Economics there's no such thing as a free lunch right everything costs and it costs the taxpayer and if you're a person in this country that can pay the bills that they signed up to pay pay it

you called the wrong two people cuz both Jade and I paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars and I'll tell you right now Brian if if those if those forgivenesses went through and Miss Jade had to add that to her taxes I'd be fired up cuz I already paid

280,000 you know what I'm saying Brian

yeah the part about the timeline and and I definitely got your answer uh on that and I kind of had a suspicion that you might say that yeah um but I was actually to pay it off and then right when I was about to pay it off the whole thing came up that it might just be forgiven so I figured if I paid it and then it immediately would have been forgiven

I would have thought to myself I should have invested that money elsewhere but you know I totally get your point though I think there's a bigger thing there's and I think we lose this this I think we lose this um

globally there is a a psychological and

in turn a physiological response to Integrity to standing up and keeping

your word telling the truth there's a reason why truth telling is woven into the fabric of every Faith tradition in human history there you you walk differently and when I was 18 and I signed up for all the stupid loans I signed up for I had no idea what I was signing up for Jade need I mean none of us did we were just doing the next thing everybody told us but we both put our names on a piece

of paper and said if you help me get through school I'll pay you back you did too and so I can see that you would have been like dude I got $10,000 more dollars in my pocket you know we got bailed out by the government Jade's right number one anytime any time a

government agency bails you out they will come knocking for a piece of Flesh at some point if you've ever sat in a history class they will come back to your door and say where's mine so always count on that but the big thing is is you would you would be like oh man I should have invested it but I did what was right because I put my name on a piece of paper

and I said I'd pay you back and there you go here's my money and I'm I'm moving on to the next and you know what thanks for that call Brian because we needed to talk about this with with the people don't you think that everyone would like to open up their bills and go ah I'm not going to pay that I mean no one wants to pay their bills no one wants to give away money like

it doesn't feel good and it doesn't it's not fun especially when you didn't realize what you're doing yeah absolutely but I'm saying it's it's not fun to write your check for your car pay

or you know pay online I'm sorry I just aged myself no one wants to send that online pay payment for their car but they signed up to have a car payment no one wants to send you know even though this is a little bit better you know your insurance payment you know and you're like gosh I never even use this thing and it's not fun to give away your money

but when you sign up for something you you say that you're going to pay for it and there is that piece of it that's there and when it comes to these student loans yeah I I can really get into this

here's the thing and I want to validate this because I felt that John I'm sure you have too with student loans is very different because you're looking around you're going yeah I was 18 somebody should have stepped in like it would have been nice if some adult had gone hey Jade you don't need to take out that much student loans because you know you've got a full right scholarship

you don't need to take out student loans to get your hair done and go to parties bu groceries like that's dumb Jay don't do that I would have loved if an adult did that I would have loved if an adult stood and really explained compound interest to me when it's working against you I would have loved that but nobody did I would have loved so many things to be different about that situation for

the people to say hey don't put your loan on forbearance because when you do that it's going to accumulate interest in you faster than you've ever could imagine no one did that and I can spend my whole life blaming them or I can go oh let me change my whole life I can't blame my way to a better life I've got to change the situation pay off your debt that's all

it is man this is the

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thank you for listening to the Ramsey Show I am Jade warshaw joined by best-selling author Dr John deloney and

I'm actually really excited John because you have a brand new book coming out it's coming out Tuesday just a few days just a few days that's right hey I'm excited tell the folks about it building a non-anxious life in a society and a

generation we have everything we're anxious beyond measure anxious beyond words and so wrote a book called billing and non- anxious life and it's um it's

exciting to say it's breaking all the internal pre-sale records and um it's got just a couple more days when it gets to Monday at midnight the um all the

pre-sale goodies will be gone and I think it's 75 bucks they say of uh of free stuff that that comes with it get online Ramsey solutions.com or john.com and pick it up and then come Tuesday October 2nd October 3rd yeah third October 3rd it will be in all the stores all across America everywhere else but I'm excited man let's get it out let's get it out let's get out that's exciting

so can I just ask something of course what store when this book comes out what store are you like I want to go see my book sitting on the shelf in this store I was an old like man I used to live my wife and I used to live in bookstores and so going like seeing a book in a Barnes & Noble's pretty Rad or walking by

and seeing it in a target's pretty cool I mean it's just just see it it's just surreal none of that surreal it's just weird John I'm excited for you that is super duper cool make sure to get your copy I know I got mine ramsy solutions.com that's where you want to get it let's go to John and Washington and by the way if you want to take a call

if you want us to take your call give us a call 8825 5225 and we will do

just that without further Ado we got John in Washington DC what's going on

John hey guys uh thank you for taking my call absolutely how can we help um so I

I I had a quick question so um so my

wife and I um um recently actually just

paid off my student loan and we're completely debt free now except for our mortgage way to go yeah that's a slow

clap right there good job yes and we

we've been uh listening to ramy's um show for a long time so um you guys help

turn my mindset around to do this the right way love that um so I'm that note

like we're we were thinking about so we

we currently own a condo in this area

and um we have a baby and we're going to

be putting her into dayare in about a month or two and it's kind of expensive um in the area so um but we've also been

looking at houses because we really want to own a home but we are not sure if

that is a smart idea um uh we make

decent amount of money but we're we're

not sure we can really afford it and with the interest rates going up and prices just keep Rising we just feel like we're never going to be able to attain a home and uh we're not sure

we're just looking for some advice on what you guys think we should do yeah and how we should plan for the next steps to hopefully own a home in the future yeah absolutely I think you're asking all the right questions and I think you got the right uh set of Weights in place it's like okay we got a baby we got daycare coming up yes we'd love to have a home all great questions to ask um my first question to you

because if we do do the math and figure out yeah you guys are ready that's great but I want to make sure that you've got a couple of things in place do you guys have an emergency fund fully funded three to six months of expenses yes yes we have um um we have

savings um but I mean I just spent about

like $40,000 to pay off my student loans okay so what do you have left so we have about um I'd say about

50,000 um in a savings account probably

another 16 stocks um and we probably

have around another um I would say 80 in retirement

accounts okay so you've got 110 that's non-retirement right yeah okay so that's great um I

would knock that down or siphon it off in your brain to whatever 3 to 6 months of your expenses are so are you a person who you feel would need three months to feel comfortable of emergency expenses if one of you were to lose your job or six months I would say six months for six months okay so if just quickly in your head basic expenses I'm not talking about a full

and by the way for anyone listening when we talk about an emergency fund it's not your full budget time six it's what you really need to just keep your home running all right if everything gets down to the wire right only what you need to survive that doesn't include the restaurant budget and nails and you know if your wife gets her lashes done that doesn't include all of that it's

this is your basic what it take barebones budget 3 to six months what would that be for you for six months probably like 20K I think oh only

20K okay are you sure well so like our mortgage right now

is about like 2500 MH um and probably

other monthly expenses if we really had to cut back probably could go to like 500 to a th000 a month oh wow y'all are living y'all are Living Lean um okay put

30 in there for fun thank you I was going to say just for me can you keep it at 30 put 30 in there for fun let's go with 30 I'll feel better about that um okay so 30 set aside that gives you 880,000 coming up uh to start putting towards a down payment okay so now what we want to think about here is how to buy a house to where it's a blessing for

you and it's not a burden all right which is you're going to have to do your research and I really want you to run the numbers we've got on Ramsey solutions.com we've got a mortgage calculator you can check out or you can just Google um how much home can I afford Ramsey Solutions calculator pop up right there but at the end of the day here's what I want

you to aim for John I want you on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage write this down 15year fixed rate mortgage I don't want the payment to be any more than 25% % of your take-home pay now this is your take-home pay after taxes only all

right see that's the problem right now

because I feel like that that payment that I would calculate so like I've been listening to you guys and I know the whole 15 year old 15 year Rule and all that right now we have a 30- year old a 30- year old 30-year mortgage and our

monthly with principal interest taxes and everything PMI is like 2500 right

and even that feels hard for us and

that's I mean I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest with you yeah your payment your payment for what you get is going to be higher because you're cutting it in half you're saying I'm not going to pay for a home for 30 years I'm going to pay for a home in 15 years and if you do it our way it's going to be even less do you know let me tell

you something John the folks who walk through our steps they become debt-free they pay off their house in the next 7 to 10 years cuz the goal here the goal of everything we teach this is not just for you for anyone listening the goal here is Ultimate peace and the way you get to Ultimate peace is there's no payments so we want you to pay off your home

if you get a 30-year mortgage at that point what you're saying is I'd rather have more space I'd rather have a bigger home I'd rather have all of these things rather than having the piece of owning my home not to mention when you don't have a home payment do you know how freaking rich you're going to be because how much you're going to be investing every month John talk to about

it well

John what what are you do in Washington Washington DC uh so I'm an engineer and my wife uh

works for a a company as a um she's a

legal professional okay so this is a conversation that millions and millions and millions of Americans are having right now which is this we really wanted this particular

job in this particular field in this

particular City could be because we want

to be New York people we love the energy of DC we love the the legal profession

here we love the X the W great what we're telling you is the math doesn't work in your favor and the question you and your wife have to ask and it needs to be like in an intentional fun where let's go get breakfast together and get some a sitter for the kids or for the kid it's a dreaming conversation but it's a hard conversation which is what do we want more do we want to have

access to concerts four minutes away and do we want to live by the subway do we like the quote unquote energy of the city or we want a home because the world needs legal professionals you're an engineer you can get a job all across America and you can cut your living expenses by 2/3 right and you can get a house for

for in some places for half you know you're 50% there um with just your down payment depending on what city and state you move to so the harder question is

what are we willing to give up for this dream of owning a home what we're telling you is mathematically speaking I don't care about how you feel about it cuz I know you want one we all do you cannot afford it given what you make where you live you'll have to deal with that [Music]

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you're listening to the Ramsey show this is Jade warshaw this is John deloney we're taking your calls all afternoon John what's coming around the pipe all right we got two big things going on October 5th this is next Thursday I'm throwing a book release bash we're going to have punk rock music and singer songwriters and a PO it's going to be D it's going to get off

the rails they gave me one hour to plan whatever I wanted and it's going to be a blast um we're going to have a we're going to have a about an hour program and then I'm going to sign books and um take pictures until every single person is ready to go so um that's October 5th

let's up um go to ramsy solutions.com for that and our first ever money and

marriage getaway October 19th through 21st in Nashville me and Rachel Cruz

we're going to equip you and your spouse with tools to cast a vision for your family set goals create a life that you both love we're going to be talking about money we're going to be talking about sex we're going to be talking about everything that couples are struggling with right now and we're going to have a ton of opportunities for you to get one-on-one or two-on-one direct

coaching and conversations it's not going to be us lecturing this is going to be more conversational more um think think graduate school not um huge

lecture hall right they're gonna be interactive sessions and me and Rachel Cruz are gon to be your guys to discuss communication boundary sex money all of it tickets are 799 bucks it's a whole weekend it's going to include a great fun event um one one of the nights it's

just going to get off the rails also if you're out of debt you got room in the budget please come see us Ramsey solutions.com events and we have couples who have been married a few months and we have couples who been married 20 30 years who are circling back and say okay we want the back half of our marriage to be more awesome than our first half

and so we've got people from all over the Spectrum hope you'll join us ramsy solutions.com events like that let's go to Detroit we got Kylie what's going on Kylie hi there thanks for taking my call you bet what's going on okay so my husband and I are in a situation um so

right now we are just not making end meet meet we're in the negative every month and I'm trying to figure out if we F bankrupt or if we I don't we don't see

another way so we're just trying to figure that out right now so the bills that you have we're not paying the bills that we have and I'm assuming there's debt as well right yeah so we have that we can so we we're paying our bills we we're not behind on like food house electricity any of we're we're doing the taking care of ourselves and you're paying minimums on the debt as well yes okay yep so can you kind of list out the debt for us yes so we have um 880,000 in

student debt okay which we're we we're not paying on and I'm in school so it's all deferred um not that does exist but are you still acre hold on are you still AC crewing student loan debt um I think

technically it opens up this weekend right no I mean you said you're still in school so I'm saying are you still continuing to take I am getting y girl

we G to talk about that we're we'll talk

about that let's take it one thing at a time though so so far we've got the 80,000 in student loans what else yes um and we have 30,000 in personal loan it's

there's 25 personal loan and then um another 5,000 is credit cards okay and

so you're in school are you working at all while you're in school I I work um part-time from home we have four kids and we homeschool oh wow part-time from home four kids you're homeschooling what are you earning working part-time from home um I bring home around 21,000 a

year okay and what is your husband earning um he is making right now he just got a new job in his new degree field um and he's only making 36,000 a year what is he doing he's doing software support so he went and like got his it and coding stuff and he couldn't find a better

job yet when I hear what the coders are pulling in in this building it makes me wish I'd gone to coding school that's what we also thought but I mean we would take

any leads okay here's when you tell me your income

my brain goes to the average income the median income in America and I I'm

always striving to to get people at least to the median all right which is around 67,000 just to know like all right I'm in the game so yeah I really want that to be your goal very very quickly um you got $115,000 in debt um

if we want to make this needle move the secret sauce here is getting the income up and running like cranking

and the thing that I the thing that I want you to understand is you're you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it and right now you're still adding to the debt and so any movement that you make forward is going to feel futile so what I want to do is stop the bleeding and so you're going you're going to school now what's the endgame of this this um so I'm in my

Master's to be as a licensed counselor okay how much time is left and how much more money is being added to this bill um how much time is left like

three to four years I'm doing very part-time and I I honestly don't even

know the end like probably at least another 50 can I say something really hard don't do that can I say it John I'm I'm I dude I

I've got a PhD in counseling I'm G tell you don't do it I was a I was a graduate school Professor here's why I'm telling you that 50,000 on top of the other 80

for a clinical mental health counseling degree is going to be a nightmare to pay

off and dude I was a graduate school Professor I need more counselors out there I want people to go to graduate school and get their counseling degrees here's the deal you're broke y'all can't afford this and you got four kids yeah you have to make some radical hard hard choices like we want the idea of schooling all four of our kids maybe they got to go to public school for a couple years where

we clean up the mess that the adults in the house made my husband really wants to be a coder but he can make about that much money being an assistant manager at McDonald's right now he's G to go find a job and a second one too y'all are in a

situation and I think you want to have I want to be a licensed therapist dude I want that so bad for you we want to homeschool our kids I so badly want that for you want him to be a coder cuz they keep saying we're going to make $200,000 I want that for him too but the reality is those things aren't real right now MH what is real is y'all can't breathe because um you owe so much money and let

me tell you this and you probably learned this in your grad school classes already your children absorb the tension in your home yeah and if Mom and Dad can't pay bills then Mom and Dad are struggling with each other and those kids are absorbing that every second of every day see what I'm saying and so sometimes it's a Dream Deferred several times in my second doctoral program

I had to quit I took off a semester because I had to take care of things at home I had to take care of things with me and my wife and so it may be the time and there's going to be a state school that I promise you can get a great clinical master's degree that's going to be infinitely cheaper than what you're doing and you'll be able to pay cash as

you go this I know it's hard but I you and your husband aren't being yall aren't dealing with reality and and I don't mean that like you're not living on the moon y'all just don't make enough money and you want to do this and you want to do this you want to do this um if you put all four of your kids in public school on Monday day

and you went to work full-time you instantly are able to breathe instantly and if he says three of them are too young for school but yeah okay but you know you get you get the sense of what I'm saying right um and or you

reach out to somebody at the local church and you get some help or you take your parttime job and and your you look at your husband say you're making 36 Grand you were trying to get off the ground with this great and I know you want to be around with all four kids great but we have to have more money right now yeah there is going to be a sacrifice there's going to be TR no way there's not a sacrifice there's going to be a sacrifice going to be a trade

and that's based on what you say the priority is I mean we can say this is a money show and this you know John's going to speak to the other side of it but we're always going to prioritize what gets you feeling peace and feeling freedom first and I think a lot of times people think oh like probably in your mind you're like oh I'll get my degree I'll be able to earn more money

and that was the path but then you pull back and you're like wait a second this is just creating more like frustration more debt more chaos and when that happens you do have to stop and regroup and go okay what was the price priority again what was the thing cuz it can't everything can't be A1 if everything's A1 then you start going crazy really quickly yeah and

so something something goes on the chopping block and that's the really really hard part of this conversation uh not just for you Kylie but for so many folks listening thank you for the call because I think just by you sharing your story it provides Clarity for a lot of people cuz John you're so right you have to make hard choices very rarely in life do you get to just get all of

it at once well and you mentioned something goes on The Chopping Block and if you don't want it to be your degree it doesn't want you don't want to be your career dream it will be your marriage yeah it will be your relationship with your kids yeah it will be your peace something has to pay the piper and so let it be the adults in the house that is such a good word uh yeah

you got to make the sacrifice and you know what sometimes I don't like the word sacrifice John I like to call it a trade cuz it's really what are you trading what are you getting in return and when you say it like that it has I don't know a better ring to it this is the ramsy [Applause]

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you are listening to the ramsy show I am your host Jade warshaw joined by bestelling author Dr John deloney host of the Dr John deloney show love to say that and uh I wanted to let you new folks listening know that if you're listening number one we're happy that you're here but number two you probably hear us talk about things all the time that you're like hey I'm new here

and I feel like you guys are using some inside jargon some lingo that I don't understand help me understand and and if that's you I want you to go to ramsy solutions.com and I want you to click that little get started button because that's where we're going to meet you where you're at we're going to explain this whole thing to you we're going to talk to you about

the baby steps we're going to explain what all that means and finally you're going to feel like you've come into the fold the ramsy fold and you're going to go oh my gosh I get it now I loved the show before but I love it even more now that I understand all the things that they're talking about so do that today go to ramsy solutions.com click the get started button

and uh

we'll help you figure out your best Next Step here with Ramsey Solutions that's amazing in the meantime let's go to Michael he's in Scottdale Arizona Michael what's going on buddy hey I had a quick question for you guys I was wondering at what point do you sell um stocks and mutual funds to payoff baby step number two uh I've made a oopsy

last year and we're probably about 65%

over an individual stock purchase um

negative on that but at what point do we just just cut our loss sell it pay off

baby step two and just move on yeah are

you doing man what what were you doing did you did you get like an Insider tip did you like read a magazine no absolutely not it was an IPO opening and I was like a this is going to do well and it did not but oh man you put all you pushed all your chips in on that bet how hey I love the way you said it was like it's just an oopsy

so it was either like 100 Grand or it was 4,000 bucks what was the oopsie it was ,000 bucks I made an investment and it's you know down to about 4,000 now so um and how much is the

debt um I've got about 60,000 uh in debt

right now um shoot yeah okay so I'm the

way you framed it was as though if you sold the 4,000 in stocks or whatever what it was in stocks that that would be enough to clean up the debt is there more money because you also said mutual funds yeah I've got mutual funds just some Savings in general probably um with all that combined of maybe 35 40,000

okay and that's non-retirement non-retirement accounts so we're close to just paying off the debt and with our income we probably can clear it in the next you know six to eight months or so so I'm just trying to it's hard to let go of a loss like that maybe the market will go up but that's the whole game right it never does or when you need it well in

this case I mean over time it's going to go up and if this was sitting in a retirement account I'd be like yeah it's fine let it let it ride but in this case

you're trying to pay off your debt and so I would definitely say go ahead and liquidate that money there's going to be a tax implication on it for sure but in this case it's it's worth it to you to clear this debt you're still going to have about 15 16,000 left that you need to pay and I it sounds like you'll be able to cash flow that and get the rest of that out of your life pretty quickly yeah it it is yeah how much you

said you and your partner H can do it in eight six to eight months how much do youall make uh we make we own our own business we make upwards of uh about 220 a year

wait a second good God Almighty how do you not have this paid off by Christmas you know what I know cuz Michael's playing Michael you're over here playing games aren't you Michael you're playing games you're like I'mma do a little of this I'mma do a little of that it's so hard sometimes to you know

I don't know just not hang on to it right and just kind of finally you know I just finally kicked in um you know a few months ago of like gosh let's get this out of here why is it here why do we have this debt let's build you know this freedom and wealth and you know so

I'm just trying to I I I would love to see you cash everything out and pay the stuff off this weekend and have a huge celebration like do it right I'm for real and then you and your partner look at each other and you'll have um October

November and December and say for Christmas our Christmas present is let's owe nobody anything let's have an entirely free household we're free we are free hey what's left to go on the

mortgage uh quite a lot we purchased a home in uh the peak of 2022 and um but we we did gain a ton of

of equity in our previous home and so you know we just kind of transfer that over but we do we've got $675,000 okay

you make 225,000 so you're going to put that on a seven-year plan you'll be done in five yeah that and and thank you John for getting to that because that's the picture that I want to paint for you going forward because I think you're a smart guy I think you're a guy I mean you've got a great income you've kind of been dibbling and dabbling here and

I kind of want to give you the framework for how you can do that in a way that's going to give you peace and make the most sense I mean hopefully you're investing 15% of your income into retirement is are you doing that or more

yeah we are I've got automation of our you know our business just pays into our into our plans and I'm trying to automate that I've already put in a thousand more towards princip of the home just to do it you know just to say it's starting to go in that and let's be very intentional about that I mean over here we would say invest 15% for retirement

and if you had kids put some in the 529 and then you know be intentional it doesn't have to be everything that's extra going to the house it doesn't have to be super intense but be super intentional you know like you said make it automated every month this is the plan sit down with your wife we putting x amount of dollars towards the mortgage and before you know

it that mortgage is going to be gone on and you're going to have the extra money to play around with investing more and if you want to do single stocks it's like look I I've always talked to Dave about that I'm like Dave when's the best time to do single stocks he's like look if you want to play around with stuff like that as long as it's no more than 5% of your total net worth like whatever knock yourself out

but I think it's good to that's only you have enough money to burn in the middle of the living room right yeah I mean exactly you did like

you he's going to have money to burn he's going to have he's going to be a he's going to have his home paid off at 600 it's worth 6 75 now right so it's going to be skyrocketed by then so does that does that sound like more fun Michael it certainly certainly does yes

good good I appreciate the encouragement and the extra push will you call us back at Christmas on on December 24th we have a we have a like a show right before it just to do your debt free scream I'm challenging you I'm giving you a 90day challenge oo I appreciate that I will um I'll talk to my wife and we'll we'll work hard to get that then I love that it's like Yoda stuff there is no try 90 days come on Michael you make a quarter million dollars yeah do it do look thank you

Michael for the call and hey keep listening because this next thing I'm going to talk about is kind of about you and not just you Michael but so many people let me tell you the most dangerous place to be in John is when it

it it comes in a couple of ways in his case he's got a nice income and his debt is there but it's not rocking his world

it's not making him duck and Run for Cover right or somebody who makes maybe $120,000 a year and they've got 20 $25,000 of debt it's not like they're not shooketh right they're just like I've got this debt it's a little annoying but I'll make it work King James shook shth they're not shooketh

when you got Sam and Jade type debt to ratio income you are under the ground you're running for your life you don't have a choice and so I those are those calls are always the hardest cuz it's like I can bat It Around the Net a little bit longer for now for now and those are the ones that you look up in 5 years down the line 10 years down

the line suddenly it starts eating a hole bigger and bigger because you can't out earn bad spending habits you can for a little while but after a while it catches up with you and it's going to bite it's going to take a big old chunk out of your booty can I say that online you can and you say probably whatever we want online but also I always again

I always feel like I'm Debbie Downer it just takes one shift in the market one thing that that Scottdale decides to do with a regulatory issue and your business is over yeah and you have a $600,000 mortgage that was a great deal cuz you rolled $300,000 in equity into it I don't care yeah and now you've got 60,000 bucks and you can't eat right it happen we would not have a show

if it didn't happen that's not going to happen to me I'm an engineer I'm a AI is coming for you I've got I'm a this it's coming for you right so be very very I love how

cancer is cancer whether it's a lot of cancer or a little cancer you got to deal with it you got to deal with it because that thing will grow and at the end of the day really what it's about is the habits that you're forming you know when you say ah I know I can't afford that I put on the credit card I'll be able to pay

it off right those are habits that you're forming every day and so what we're teaching it's so that you ingrain better habits so that over time you're building a better Financial Foundation it doesn't have to just be this one F swoop thing we want the daily choices that you make ah daily choices see what I did there we want that to be what shapes your financial future

so that's how it works Michael thanks for the call you helped us you helped a lot of other folks thanks for listening that does it for this hour we'll catch you next

hour hey it's Dr John delone if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to Ramy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth we help them do work they love and create

actual not fake actual amazing

relationships I am Jade warshaw your co-host joined by Dr John deloney to my

right we're taking your calls for the next hour we'll talk about your life your money your mental health you can give us a call 8825 5225 and we will do

our best to answer your questions and number one I always grateful that you guys even trust us with your life like you guys call in you're willing to share your numbers you're willing to share your deepest darkest secrets we definitely do not take that lightly so thank you so so much and um another thing that we don't take lightly thank you for watching thank you for listening uh one of

the things that you guys do that's so incredible that we're so grateful for uh is you share the show and my I'm like can you just keep doing that if you like the show click the little like button if this has done something for you subscribe or if you know someone that would benefit from the things that we're talking about in here every day day go ahead

and you know share the episode with them slide them the little paper airplane so they can see it uh send them a you know link text it to them that does so so much um not only for us it does a lot for us because it's great for the algorithm but it does a lot for people because we exist here to help you guys and help people

and that's our great privilege and honor so thank you for doing that John I'm ready to go to these phone lines because we got Allison in Toledo Ohio Allison what's going on girl hi thank you for taking my call doing good how are you I'm good um so my

question is I have a daughter that's going to be going to college next fall um the problem is she has been struggling with an eating disorder for five years um we've been through like numerous therapists dieticians residential stays uh she's stable but

nowhere near recovery um I don't want

her to go to college but her therapist

thinks I need to just kind of let her go

and I can't make her recover she doesn't want that want to do that herself and I guess I'm just scared because I'm afraid she's gonna go and then she's she's sorry yeah um she's gonna go

and then she's just GNA wither away and I know I have a year away but I'm just

like terrified and I just don't know how to deal with it no thank you for sharing that um o over the last two two decades I've

with a number of moms in your very situation okay so you're not you're not alone in that it's hard um and let's I I

always like to enter into these conversations um especially in this kind of format in a radio show um with as much truth as possible is that cool yeah

okay you and I both know that disordered

eating is one of the if not the most lethal Mental Health Challenge right

right it's not something to mess around with and we also know that when our kids

are hurting we will do anything and sometimes what we do ends up we build fences and in a weird way that can make

challenges for the growth and safety and development and healing for some of these challenges right until it becomes this weird recursive I don't want to be a part of the problem but my therapist the therapist is saying I need to stop doing this but I feel like I have to do this and so here's what I would do um

okay is there a risk of sending her away

100% absolutely no question about that anyone who tells you there's not they're lying to you okay okay

and I have been a part of multiple teams

at multiple universities from a giant R1

research institution with 35 or 40,000 students at it to a small faith-based community and the other universities in between that with a parent and with a student and with the right care team what made up of of a nutrition and made up of uh Mental Health Providers on campus and sometimes medical providers on campus there ends up being an amazing team and then you throw in residence hall directors and the ability to make friends and get community okay there is an opportunity it sounds to me like you a have concerns

about her health and well-being which are all true and you have a licensed mental health professional saying in her professional opinion this is the next best right move that's number one number two it ALS also sounds like you need to

do some work dealing with the opening of your hands and letting your daughter move to the next stage of her life which is scary to do is that fair yeah yeah and I

actually have been seeing a therapist past month and I mean she says that too

she does good so um it's hard when when

a mental health professional tells me a parent uh maybe you've got some stuff you need to work on and I'm like no it's they're the ones with and so follow follow the wisdom of of the Professionals in front of you okay and I'm going to tell you to balance that with go with your gut moms especially but moms and dads are pretty intuitive but if I'm sitting my kid

and I'm in your situation okay I have a seven-year-old little girl and I wouldn't wish it on her as you wouldn't wish it on anybody but let's say I find myself in the same situation what I would do is sit down with the college that my daughter's going to go to and we would sit down with the there's going to be a care team a student support

and emergency team it's going to be some group of people that have a 360 degree view of your daughter academically residen H experience mental health provider Etc and we're going to create a plan and everybody's going to be a part of that plan and a part of that plan will be the school will call you if they get really concerned about the health and safety of your daughter okay okay

so do you think a

smaller school would be a better choice then um I think there's going to be I I

I wouldn't say that because because they may not have the resources of a larger school so I don't I don't know that I think it's going to be very specific to your individual situation and where your daughter feels like she is going to be safe and where she's going to have a good experience um and here's the deal

I'm not special guys like me men and women like me all across the country chair these teams I ched one of these teams at several different places okay so if you can just imagine a knucklehead like me sitting down saying okay do we have the right therapist the Right medical provider we've got the right people here and then the work on the other end is let the professionals do their job and Mom you do the work on opening your hands up and letting your daughter who's now an adult slowly transition into

adulthood okay which stinks I know did you want me just to say no keep her home don't ever let her grow up would that have been so much easier no no I just

I've been trying to be so strong we're going this college visits and I'm being like really excited for her but like inside I'm a nervous wck you can be

both okay and hey I think it's fair to tell your daughter I love you to the moon and back and there's nothing in the world other than maybe your dad that I love more than you and so I'm your mom it's going to be hard on me divorced oh you're divorced okay so no so in many ways she might have been your identity for a long time right yeah has

she been your purpose and reason for being yeah she's been propping you up for a long time and it's going to you're going have to tell her I'm going to have to work to let you go and so it's going to be hard for me your mom it's not her job to make you feel better that's not her job ever ever ever that's your job to do that kind of work right right

and so I would be honest with her be honest with her she's smart she's going to college she's smart and she loves her mom and also um trusted

Professionals in in in her world there's going to be a whole team of them if you pick the right school I'm proud of you for going to counseling on your own too this a hard hard hard season you're going through this is the ramsy show

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if you have questions with your money questions about your budget questions about college choice questions about

mental health choices you're feeling anxious about money anxious about student loans coming back if the national debts got you feeling some type of way if the debates have you feeling some type of way man give us a call we want to talk about all of that you'd be surprised at how all of these things filter into our choices that we make with our life and our money

and if we're not aware of that on Down the Line we'll look up and be like oh my gosh I've created a mess so if any of those things are on your mind give us a call the number is 88255 225 we'll help sort it

out with you it would be our great place pleasure let's go to Matt in Mesa Arizona what's going on Matt hi thanks for taking my call you

bet hey um exactly what you were saying

there um some of those things you know inflation and cost come on it's real right factor in yeah they factor in but

my questions um specifically with Bitcoin and I I'll get to it but where my wife and I are at is um through baby step four so we're

completing um contributing 15% to our

retirement account and then the next steps are obviously the 529 or college savings and paying off the house right uh we're not there salary-wise to start contributing to five and six yet uh maybe in a couple years with a raise we'll start doing that but we have about a Bitcoin in uh it just saved up so if

you cash it out after taxes it probably be worth 20K would you but that's my

question for you uh relating to bitcoin what would you do with that Bitcoin and the situation that um that I'm in are

you guys how long have you hold how long have you had it since 2015 has it been so

fun yeah it's been a roller coaster it

seems like it's been like more of like a backyard slide yeah I yeah so like just directly from top to

bottom I'm just glad you're ready to get out of it dude I would sell it before the day was over most definitely and um

you know you're you're contributing the 15% to retirement like you should be um I'm not mad at you guys using that and kind of putting a a chunk into the 529 if you wanted to do that because that is important how many kids do you have we have a four-year-old and entally you know another one next year which might be some of that savings if if we cash

it out sa some of that for another kid yeah when it comes to the 529 uh we don't have many hard and fast rules on the amount that you have to contribute and how often you should contribute and all those things because the fact of the matter is everybody's situation with their kids when it comes to their education is going to be different and you're at the stage where

you really can't predict it at all like you know you don't know if they're going to grow up to want to do ivy league or if they're going to do the trades or if they're a musician and they just want to rock out you like you don't know what that's going to be and so as a parent it's really up to you to choose the best option

I don't know that I would start with 20,000 that just feels like a lot and once you're in it you're kind of locked in now not obviously down the line that money can re can you know convert into retirement money and it can go to different siblings so that's a conversation between you and your wife I do want you to be contributing something into that 529 but also know that four

five and six um if possible should be done simultaneously so I'm not mad at the idea of taking some of that money and putting it into the 529 to get it rolling and then taking the rest of it and throwing it towards the mortgage how much do you owe on your mortgage um 235 235 you know that's up

to you there's not a wrong answer on this if it were me if I woke up in your

shoes if I woke up in your shoes I might

reverse engineer it a little differently I'd probably throw like a th000 into the 529 and be like okay every year I'm going to put x amount of dollars in and I'd probably put the bigger chunk toward the mortgage that's what I would do and maybe even have a contest with your wife and see if y'all could get down to where it was 199,999 bucks before Christmas or something like that

it just feel good right yeah oh yeah when you get to when you get below the z z Oh you start making those moves and so I I that's that's probably what I would do how what what did you buy into Bitcoin what was your initial Buy in uh I bought half for

300 bucks okay and then a whole one for 1,500 bucks I I already got my money back okay you're good yeah I I love that you're just willing to sell it I think that's the right move as far as what percentages to put where I don't think there's a wrong answer but I think I

don't think there's a wrong answer in my mind what feels a little bit more wise I

hate to use the word wise what feels like there's less um unknown let me put it like that is you know you've got to pay your house off um you know you that's that's a given you know you want to have some money set aside for some further education of your child you don't know what that's going going to be yet so it's not like we have to have 150,000 set aside for school you don't know that you know so there is some

thought with that you might say hey we're going to put 20,000 in we're going to set it and forget it and let it grow and what it is it is so those it actually Sparks um Matt some bigger

conversations about education and you and your wife sitting down and going okay what's our goal here uh 529 is great yeah we want to add to it but what are we saying we're going to contribute are we saying we're going to match them dollar for dooll regardless of how they further their education is our plan that we're going to fund whatever that thing is 100% is our plan is you know so I

think that's honestly the first conversation and then whatever you guys come away from that conversation will uh

lead you down if you're going to put most of it towards a mortgage or put most of it towards a 529 and I'll say this too I spent most of my career in higher ed and I've got a 13-year-old who's just a few years out and I've got a seven-year-old I am I have not a a single doubt in my mind that what I know to be college and the university experience right now will be different for my seven-year-old yeah so that's where we're at we're conflicted on um what to

do in that situation so I I think you're right it makes more sense to with any extra cash pay down the house and even having grandparents that would more than likely step in to help pay for some of that college for a grand kid um I wouldn't count on it yeah not planning on that but um like you said not necessarily wiser but maybe the more for sure thing is to pay down

the mortgage so and again start with that conversation with your wife like set the expectations so you know what the goal is because it it's you know sometimes with this stuff we just start throwing darts and it's like hey I know I'm supposed to do something like that and I know I'm supposed to do something like that and it's like H throw ,ll in there throw $500 in

there but what really motivates us and what really makes us feel awesome about what we're doing is when we know exactly what we're aiming towards and why then as you get closer it's like that's freaking awesome like we're really doing something so that's what I'd say Matt feel good about it thank you yeah I think the the mindset has changed after having a kid and just kind of settling down a little bit where

we want to have more peace with our finances than being you know kind of no kids or uh before that single and and

I've never needed the Bitcoin but I think that's it's hard to have the mindset of well so volatile it could go up 200,000 and it could also go down and so I don't really want to sell it which is kind of why I'm calling in yeah but uh having peace with with finances is probably more important for us so I'll I have that confirmation conversation with my wife and and uh go from there I think

I think it's worth it look you guys are out of debt number one so it's not like I'm like sell this to get out of debt um what's your net worth by the way like what do you what else do you have invested I'm just curious uh good

question um Beanie Babies we always say

like things like this Bitcoin and and single stocks and um little things like that that you just are dabbling around in you don't want that to be more than 5% of your big picture and you certainly don't want to be putting money into those things currently until after baby step 7even until after you're you know doing all the doing all the important things right then it's like

when you have money to play if you have money to play um you might do stuff like that but the way it sounded um you I feel like when you first called in you said hey we've got the money to do baby step four but we don't necessarily have it to do five and six and so I think that right there was the the dial that you turned that's like okay

then it's it's time to sell this off if you were like hey we're just rolling in the dough should I just go ahead and sell this to I'd probably be like H who cares but because it does matter to you and it matters in your world I definitely would sell it I think you're making the right choice I love these conversations John yeah and I I never want people to forget

if you don't have a mortgage can go a long way to help cash flowing part of college 2 when it comes around right oh yeah I mean that's all that money freed up just freed up money the mortgage is the biggest piece of people's month-to-month income and it's one thing when you go from renting to ownership and it's a whole other thing when you go from ownership to no payments like

I literally own this free and clear you can help cash flow a community college with no problem oh that's what I'm talking about this is the ramsy

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now what's going on people it is the ramsy show I am Jade warshaw your host I got John deloney on the ones and twos to the next to the next side of me remember that when they used to say that I do I do on the on and I don't even I don't even know what that means I guess it just means that you're uh I thought it was the turntables yeah the ones and twos though okay clearly I've never worked a turntable um tables in a

microphone where it's at that's what I'm talking about all right yes I got that John I got that okay I know about Beck I

know what's going on here we're going to go to Michaela in Honolulu Hawaii

Michaela what's going on hi yeah so I'm just trying to see if

I can figure out a plan to help me and my family get out of um like living

paycheck to paycheck yes ma'am you're living in one of the most expensive places on the planet is it rough yes it

yeah it's rough um but there's no no

room to leave like I'm not leaving this is my home so I just have to figure out

what to do next um can you give us a

little bit of a can you give us a a big picture of what's going on can you tell us what the debt is can you tell us what the income is would help you out yeah so my husband has about $20,000 in student loan debt um I'm at home with two kids

so I can't really work um how old are the kids and then he um five months old

and two and a half okay yeah and then um he makes about

like 50,000 okay um he just finished his

degree um so like he's looking for more jobs and he got offered a management position at his job so that he doesn't

leave so there's potentially more money coming in um but I mean it's not going to be significant enough to really make a dent if you know what I mean at first yeah I mean what are we talking he goes from 50 to 55 or he goes right yeah okay that's right and so

just the 20,000 in student loans is there anything else no okay um 20,000 in student loans

feels like a lot when you're making

50,000 um 20,000 in student loans feels

a lot better when you're making 70,000

880,000 right right so what we need to

do is we need to open that Gap a little bit CU right now it's like man this is almost half of my income and in the United States you know the median income is somewhere around 67,000 and I really really really want to get you as close to that as possible so you're staying home with the kids I got to believe there's something in this internet age

I believe I know Michaela there's something that you can also be doing to bring in some money right obviously you're staying home with the kids CU you're like hey it's too expensive to put them in child care right did I guess that right right yeah I mean it's also

just I can't let somebody else watch my kids too you know wait a minute wait a hold on hold on hold on you've told me you can't move you've told me you can't let somebody watch your kids you told me you can't work and then you're calling us I've started a you know I've started a business so I'm trying to work something that I can bring my kids with to sell at uh our markets

and stuff here yes that's good can I got to cut you off that's good but we need money today yeah you're you're with your ideas with the way things like your your

your non-negotiables are burying you

guys you don't have enough money right and so you're gonna have to you and your husband gonna have to give like he wants to have this management job cool I need you to go to McDonald's and work the night shift because I'm sure not working so you're going to have to work two jobs or three jobs or I'm

going to start seeing keeping three of my neighbor kids over at our house but

when you go into problem as desperate as you're in we can't make the bills and

those little kids are absorbing your husband's tension and your tension and your frustration and you go in with a whole bunch of can't do that can't do that can't do that can't do that that's a tough way to solve a problem well you're cutting you're cutting the legs out from under you and it's not just you Michaela we've been having this conversation all afternoon with different callers everything doesn't get the yes like everything doesn't get to stay you do have to go through and go hey yeah everybody look not everybody but most

parents have the ideal scenario for their kids and that's what they want I would love you I wish I could bring my kids to work and I could see them all day every day but I can't do that and do this job uh so there's there's a give and take there um when Sam and I my husband and I were getting out of debt I wanted to be able to do what everybody else does which is

you know you come home after a long hard day you know you you order a pizza on a Friday you watch Netflix I didn't get to do that because we had to pay off our debt and so there's part of this that you just go okay I have to make changes and they

will be painful and I want people to hear that it doesn't feel good when you're paying off your debt it sucks it hurts you sacrifice you strain and you

push yourself to limits that you're like man I don't feel like the guy next to me has to push himself to the type of limits that I'm pushing myself to but at the end of the day you turn into a different person and that is that is the pricee Michaela that's at the end of this you turn yourself into a different person number one that person's debt free right

but number two no one can hold a candle to and no one can tell you anything other than man like you're confident like you can do what you say you're going to do you can do hard things you know how to prioritize you know how to spend your time wisely that builds something in you Michaela that is going to be so Priceless and so important throughout other

because there will be other storms in life and this is going to create that well in you that you're going to be able to dig from and pull from and go hey remember when we did XYZ remember when we doubled our income and remember when we just fought like dogs to get our income up remember when we sacrificed everything and we paid off that debt no one can take that from

you and so when you guys sit down and you say okay what are we going to sacrifice what are we going to do are we going to do something with the kids what does that look like am I going to get EX am I going to put this dream I going to defer this dream of whatever the business you have for just a minute so I can make some money to day

it is going to be so so worth it because when you get to the point and you will get to this point Michaela when you can keep the kids home and when you can do some of the things that you want to do it's going to be that much more worth it because you worked and sacrificed and scrapped to get it how much H what's been minimum wage on in h Honolulu right

now $12 I think it's 11 actually 11 what

um there I mean we couldve I worked at a restaurant up until I had my child okay

um here's here's what I'm wondering what

does October 1st through March 1st what is six months what a six months of a family

member a friend someone from your church or even a local daycare center watching your kids six months of you grinding it and hating every day of it but you grind it and then after at March 1st you don't owe anybody any money right and then you are able to sit

with your kids and be fully present without that Dragon hanging over your shoulder and then by that time your husband's moved from his management position where it was just a little bit of a raise to another position on the island somewhere MH and what you're talking about is 6 months and it feels like a hundred years when you're holding a five-month old but when I'm I have a 13-year-old now

and I made some sacrifices when he was young that allow me and him to do some incredible things that never would have happened when me and my wife sat down and she said Are you seriously going back to school and I said I think I have to and I don't know why but I think I have to no idea that there was such thing called a podcast

and YouTube didn't exist right at least in any way that I knew about it and so there's something about saying I'm just G to suck it up for a season for right now so that I can do these other things when you get that money coming in it's going to change your life you get that debt off your shoulder changes your life you you find you find a way to make $20,000

you know you can live off so you're out of debt in a year if you can make this work and hey before you get off the line we're going to give you every dollar that is the budgeting app that we created here at Ramsey Solutions it's the only budgeting app that I use back in 2015 when my husband and I were in the thick of it Ramsey was like here

you go we made every dollar and we made it to make this easier for you and I've never looked back we use that thing it's so helpful it helps you plot your goals it helps you see where you're at and by the way Michaela I'm going to be doing a webinar um on October 10th uh it's at 11:30 Central Time where I'm going to really walk through paycheck to paycheck living how to break that cycle like specifically

the things that you're talking about so I really want you to tune into that webinar um please please please make it a priority and be there it's going to help you it's an hour long it's a lunch break uh and anybody else listening it's open to the public I would love for you guys to sign up for my webinar again 10:10 we're going to be going through

the every dooll app making sure you guys really have a handle on how to use this thing how it's truly going to help youing break that paycheck to paycheck cycle it's so important I'll see you [Music]

[Music]

there [Music]

you are listening to the Ramsay show I am Jade he is John we are taking calls about your life and your money the scripture and quote of the day it says Ecclesiastes Ecclesiastes 49 through1 he

says two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor if either of them falls down one can help the other up but pity anyone who

falls and has no one to help them that's a word right there Then Linda Grayson said this there's nothing better than a friend unless it's a friend with

chocolate look I ain't mad at that I could use a little chocolate right now John if you're my friend hey man you'll find some I would love some chocolate right now we don't have any um you know

I'm looking at the scripture Ecclesiastes it says but pity the one who Falls and has no one to help them and it's kind of funny you and I were talking during the break John we get calls all the time and that I mean that's what you call in right and you're hoping that we can shed a little light on your situation you're hoping that we can say a couple of things that's going to put you on the right track and and and sometimes John folks call in and

they've already got a laundry list prepared of a what they're not going to

do and B why it won't work right and

three what they can't do and what they can't do and here's the thing and I said this to John during the bre I'm just being candid if you call in and you say

oh you know here's the thing I can't I can't earn more um I can't move I can't

uh sacrifice this or that or that what would happen if I just went oh oh okay cool well sucks to be you then what if I

just you would not be okay with that you would go well what kind of show is this you guys are supposed to give me advice you guys are supposed to help me move move forward but here's the deal it only works if you believe it works if we give you a laundry list of things hey you could try this you could do this uh here's what worked for me here's what worked for John and we're giving you real life experience it's not a theory

we didn't just pull something out of our butt and go hey try this you know it might work for you we're telling you - tested uh techniques when it comes to money when it comes to life things that not only worked for people out there that you might not know or have ever heard of but work we're people right here in this studio who are telling you hey uh look

we sacrificed we slept on an air mattress John pulled himself in and out of school he made sacrifices to make it work for his family we're telling you that and you can either take it or you can leave it right you lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink but here's the thing you came here for a drink and we're trying to give you that

and um the belief thing it works either

way right whether you believe something works or you believe it doesn't like that's your choice so the things that we have for you the resources that we have for you you can make it true for you or you can make it false for you you can say hey like I believe this or I don't

and there's a big part of that like you've got to you've got to connect to that and you've got to stop saying I'm the exception to the rule well and there used to be a cultural ethos of we can do

anything yes we can go to the Moon we can we can go liberate Europe we can go

fight this war we can do these things and now our cultural ethos is y'all can't you can't it's too hard too hard someone's got to come get you you you guys have too much pain you just you can't and and Jade I there's too much standing in your way I hear I'm frustrated by that ethos of you can't because I've I've just had the privilege for 20s something years sitting with people who have scratched and clawed and figured it out and it's amazing to watch them and I'm frustrated by by those who

say I'm not going to do that I can't do that I can't I can't drive a Corolla yes you can yes you can I can't I can't just go go to work yes you can I just can't drive in the morning before work and then deliver pizzas at night I yes you can there's always something you can do to better your situation always I don't care if it's just an inch forward

you keep compiling those inches and before you know it you will have moved steps and Bounds and miles further you can and even if you can't move you can you can reach out and say will you help me absolutely will you help me will you help me and there will be an army of people there it's just this but you have to receive the help John right

I know yeah it's it's a culture of disempowerment that is so heartbreaking to me um we have that last caller and I just want to tell her I know you have this vision for your life and that's awesome and I actually think you can get there but you're going to have to stop saying well I can't do that and I can't do that and I can't do that yeah

because you're canting yourself into to a miserable miserable Place yeah and and the thing is we can all we can all look at our lives and find reasons why it won't work right like I could look at myself I could be like well I I I went to high school in a small town um I'm black I'm a female it's harder for women to get ahead um

you know we've got this debt uh we're just musicians musicians you know it's feast and famine you know you're starving artist you can make all of these assumptions about yourself and cause them to be true it's almost like uh it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy like you're in a moment and the moment sucks like let's be honest like sometimes you can be in a moment and it does feel like

the walls are closing in on you but the more you rehearse that in your brain and continue to say it's true and have no vision for the future I say it all the time words matter Berne Brown says whatever you go looking for you're sure to find yes yeah she says that I say it too and I know it came from somebody okay but it's but it's a beautiful thing like

if I go looking for opportunity yes we were talking on on the plane today on the way on the way back from New York when you said you and Sam sat down and said if this is going to actually work we got to start business we have to yes we got to figure it out we're going to start a business then and it's like okay what do

we know how to do we're musicians so let's figure this out and but it's a matter of hey Sheila when we're doing it I'm GNA have to start adjuncting classes and I'm G to have to become a professor on top of my Dena students roles and I'm also going to take this because we got to get out of this mess and she's like I'm going to lose

you and I was like you're going to lose me either way at least this is our path of loss right and you

grind and you grind and you grind and you grind then the Sun comes out it does and but what you said John is really important I don't think people take enough time to look forward and dream people don't take enough time to go they're in the moment and they see where they're at right now and it's like H this is just this is me this is my life

this is how it is and I'm like no let's take a moment and let's zoom out for a moment in 10 years and 15 years where would you like to be taking that time some taking time to just stare out of a

window and think you know what would it be like if what would happen if I had that conversation with my spouse what would happen if we paid off both of our vehicles like what would that feel like taking the time and I challenge anybody today take some time and dream think

about how your life could be better write down a couple of ways write and then write down what must be true because let me tell you something uh John with Sam and I you know for anybody listening for the first time real quick 40 $460,000 of debt coming into our marriage from student loans and cars and everything else and um I knew I wanted not early on did

I know I wanted a family but a little further in I'm like man I want a family this is never going to happen you know like I want to be I had this dream of like I want to be the type of mom who can you know go to the field trips and be there to pick their kid up and you know I just had this very clear vision

and I was so so so so unbelievably far

from that and it broke my heart and I remember saying to my husband I'm like I can't like I can't bring kids into this M like we've got to clean up this mess we will be bringing them into such a mess and there was other things going on as well too and I remember sitting down and just being like okay what's got to be true for anything that we want in life to happen because this right here it ain't it and this is not working and we're so worth more than this and that's

a hard conversation but once you have it it's like okay there's the North Star

let's start reversing reverse engineering this thing backwards what's got to happen first and then honestly

enough people don't sit down with pen and paper and literally write down what has to happen A1 first and if if you don't have a map it's

really hard to what's that what's that old saying if you don't have a map um

you don't know where you're going You're sure to you're sure to get there right you just Meander around yeah if you aim if you aim at nothing you hit it every time that's right so yeah I if you hear

us say anything folks who still listening to this you can you can when

you think you can and it's it's 2 2: a.m. and you're exhausted and you just looked at your credit card balance and you're in bed with somebody

that said I do and yall are so far apart

from each other and your kids don't want to be around you and you think I'm out you can and it's a little bitty step and sometimes it's reaching out and saying I don't know what to do next will you help me please go make that call make that stop and then go get it go get it go do

it look we are normal people all of us

are out here scratching and clawing if John can do it if I can do it I know it sounds cliche but you can surely do it you can tell me you won't do it but do not ever tell me you can't you can do

this all things are possible this is the ramsy

show hey what's up guys it's Jade look if you like what you heard heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps go to ramsy solutions.com and click the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation that's ramsy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 183. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 29, 2023)


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[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the Ramsay show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships I am Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz co-hosting this hour with

the wonderful Jade warshaw and my

co-host chair right there and we are taking your calls it's a free call anywhere in the country at 88 25 5225

and again talking about your life and your money so give us a call so first up

this hour we have Laura in Toronto

Canada hey Laura welcome to the show hi

thank you so much I'm so excited to be able to talk to you guys today thank you for having me on yeah absolutely thanks for calling how can we help so I've been

listening to your show Daily for the last few months and I read Total Money Makeover and now I need some advice so

we've always been fairly responsible and Frugal with our money um but since listening to you guys recently I've wanted to start doing more so I've been

selling off a lot of things that we don't need or use anymore kind of like how everybody suggests to sell everything until the kids think they're next um my three-year-old and my

5-year-old are now starting to notice and have started asking more questions about money and what I'm saving for and

where it's going so my question is do

you have any advice on how to talk to kids about money and at what age and is there a way to teach them to respect it without causing any kind of anxiety I

know my girls are still little but I don't want to burden them with adult things like debt and mortgages but I want to try and start them off right

yeah we don't want to talk about like government shutdown and stuff with our 5-year-old yeah yeah yeah um no I think

it's a great question Laura and I think even your intentionality behind it early

on um is huge and then I would say too I

give you props that your kids are picking up on what you're doing because

we always say if you're a parent you know more is caught than taught like your kids are watching so much of what

you're the choices you're making in life

and even your tions around it right they

they pick up so much and so um the fact

that they're seeing change in you Laura I think is amazing because that means you're changing right you're doing something different when it comes to your money and they're seeing that so

Props to you in that regard uh but yeah

I mean I would keep it very age appropriate I think we do find families

that are in a season of sacrifice to

make a financial goal like getting out of debt or having money saved uh to

bring the kids along in that and make it

a family themed idea right that like as

a family we are choosing to do this and it's not just Mom and Dad in isolation doing it and so talking yeah so talking

to them and I think again age appropriately and just saying yeah you know Mom and Dad we don't want money to be a stress point in our life so for us

you know whether it's you're getting out of debt so we don't so we actually when

Mom and Dad make money from work we get to keep it and decide what we want to do with it instead of sending it you know you can even talk to them about payments and like what that looks like yeah what de is and so yeah it's again very age

appropriate but starting those conversations uh I think is is key yeah

Laura I talked since they're so oh sorry go ahead Jade I was gonna say I you know

my my kids they see this show and they

see us talking about money and debt all

day and my son has started asking like

what is debt and so we've talked to him about it I mean we've explained that when you borrow money you have to give it back and here's what that looks like and even um as simple as sometimes I'll

go if I buy something and he just thinks you know you can go to Target and pick whatever you want off the shelf and I'm like no when Mama leaves every day I'm going to earn money and then when we

earn that money we get to decide how to spend it so there's part of it that just

introducing them to the idea that you go

and you work and then this is what you

get for your time and it's not unlimited

right and I think that's been a big one

and then two just um the choices in your

language right because Dr John and I

were talking about this the other day your kids remember things mentally but

their body also remembers how things

felt and so when you're going through a season of getting out of debt if you

guys are feeling anxiety and stress and

oh we got to do this and we got to do it like this and we got to do it now I would challenge you to make the feeling

like oh this is so good for us we're

sacrificing we're going to have freedom we're going to have choices and make it

an exciting thing a thing that feels like liberating empowering and then

their bodies are going to remember that feeling oh man when Mom and Dad took control of their life I mean I've never seen them more confident so I think

there's a lot that can be done with the mood that you're creating um in the

house surrounding getting out of debt and that sort of thing yeah that's good

uh I know I'm reading I'm reading a book right now uh Goff wrote and it's

all about uh anxiety and kids and she

talks about that as a parent if you have anxiety your kids are are seven times

more likely for that so just that I

think that's key are the environment you creates is it is it's huge it impacts

your kids and then the other thing Laura I would also say with your kids so that

that everything we just kind of spoke on was the perspective of you know you as

the parent reacting to your money

situation to your kids but let your kids

feel and experience money on their own

and so having them even at their age you

know they can do a couple of chores here and there ab and pay them and teaching

them especially you're older when you're 5-year-old you know give save and spend

it's like these three basic buckets of money but it's buckets that as adults that's basically what we can do with money we can give it we can save it and spend it and we want do all three and so

you kind of start letting them experience the emotion and the principal

uh H you know habit building ideas

around money themselves even at a young

age so Laura if you hang on the line

Austin's going to pick up and I want to give you financial piece Junior because that's our set of teaching young kids

how to handle money and smart money smart kids it's the first book I wrote

uh with my dad I was a New York Times bestseller because it was it's all about the perspective from the child of growing up in a home where money is

talked about and it's in a perspective that is healthy and obviously dad was

the parent in that and what they did so

um I'm going to give you those Laura because I think this is this is the part

of this show that we talk about changing

your family tree absolutely because there's a generational uh Habit that is built and

what your kids see and what they experience and what they believe about money is passed down to them and you can do it well uh and intentional like you

are or sometimes it's just accidental

and your kids get what they get right and and so I think the intentional routes is really it's important because

money is such a stressful part of life and when your kids can see that healthy perspective it's big so thanks Laura for

the call we appreciate it so Jade what's

been the biggest stuff because your kids are how old two uh three and five so so

you have exactly their age yeah exactly

and my oldest he's just at the point

where it's like oh okay so he does

chores and he gets you know a little bit of money for his chores but still going

into the story he doesn't understand like this only Buys so much so we're

constantly explaining like you only have so much and if you want more you have to

work more and the more you work the more money you have and you can buy things that are more expensive so we're kind of in that phase right now um my youngest

you know she's she's she's not there yet

yeah yeah yeah no no she's not there yet

but yeah yeah I know and it's it's so

funny too to watch your kids and and I

have a 8-year-old and a six-year-old and for sure there are personalities when

comes to it where I'm like I know which way you're going to be bent um and I

just announced today actually I'm I have a kids book coming out in November it's called I'm glad for what I have and it's dedicated to my middle daughter because

it it's all about contentment and it's for younger kids but it's um learning

that contentment piece is huge that it's

okay to have nice stuff yeah but we don't want our nice stuff to have us and

our kids think that the Amazon delivery guy is like part of the family right so I'm like they can get in come whenever he wants yeah they get in this rhythm of like what what stuff is today czy is our

kids don't even see money they don't see cash anymore they don't see even debit cards or credits it's on your phone you're buying online so making that connection for our kids in a real life scenario is so is so key so key so

thanks again Lura for the call and we'll be [Music]

back [Music]

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budget

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[Applause] [Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show I am

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with

Ramsey personality Jade warshaw and if

you guys enjoy the show it's so helpful

if you share the show subscribe to the

show leave a review all of those things

really help in the algorithm of the

world of podcast and YouTube and all of it uh because we want the show in front of as many people as possible because we want to be able to help them when it comes to their life and their money so

it's always helpful when you guys do that we know you do it because we see uh

the response and the numbers and all of it so we're so grateful for that and again trying to get trying to get this

country under control Jade I know that's right one show at a time show at a time

one episode at a time all right up next

we have philli in Birmingham hey Phillip

welcome to the show hey guys thanks for having me on

absolutely how can we help so I got maybe more of a two-part

question um I'll start with the with the

first part so I've been listening pretty

intently for the past week uh I did

financial piece when me and my wife first got married six years ago um and

haven't really followed it as close probably should have uh we currently

have $133,000 in unhealthy debt that we

own on a car and we have 135 wait wait

wait wait wait wait when you say unhealthy debt what do you mean by that

and tell me what the healthy debt

is uh the only reason I say that is I'm

I'm just putting my mind in the right perspective that I want to get rid of all all of our dead Okay so there so you

do know there's not really like healthy

debt per se

absolutely but plenty of people would say it's completely necessary to get a car yes and that that's fine and I I

don't want to I don't want to go with a grain on that okay good so I'm trying to

allow myself emotionally to catch up to

uh lifestyle changes that me and wife are stared make over the past like few weeks and the first start is just

mentally saying okay we're gonna have

we're gonna have a little bit of a a verbal battle with what the world

typically tells people her and me

changing your language J I like it you're not getting

anything past Jade Philip so watch out

$13,000 in debt um which is unhealthy as

it all is so what else you got correct

um and then and then our mortgage which

we owe 135k we got that three years ago

um thankfully before things got really

crazy but still we owe 135k on that um

aside from that we have we have zero

debt zero medical bills zero student loans so we're okay on that side

but we still want to get ahe the curb

and that's the first part of just saying

hey this is this is everything we have going on right now and the second part

of my question was I I do want to get

rid of the debt we have in our car but I

also haven't invested nearly as much

into our retirement as I want to I

currently invest into a Roth IRA and um

my question was should I keep hitting

like should I maximize as much much I can to my Roth IRA and still try to pay

extra on the car or should I put that on hold knock out the car first and then

hit uh my rothar and mutual funds Heavy

after that yeah um I see the benefit of

both sides I just I don't want to I'm

already I'm I'm be 31 yeah I think

you're I think you're freaking out and I I think you're freaking out and I don't think you need to freak out as as bad as

you are I like that you're on top of this I like that you're looking at um the future and you're going all right what do I need to do to make sure that we're set up in the best possible way um

but you know you're you're not new to our teaching so you know we walk through a series of baby steps and so what do

you think that I'm going to say uh we need to get rid of our our car

loan ding ding ding yeah and do you know

why though the do you know kind of the principle behind that sure so what is it

you're te you're you're teach you're the teacher right now because I think you know this uh I do it just helps having a

third party who's unbiased kind

of I'm not unbiased I'm not unbiased but

so Philip I think I think the I think what you can get in your head because

you sounds we always say there's like either the nerd or the free spirit are you probably the nerd I'm going to

assume uh a little bit yeah a little bit

okay yeah yeah I thought I was right uh you know you're running numbers and calculations and all of this and you're seeing Oh my gosh you know my WTH and my

retirement all of it and and I understand that I really really do and

again what you said at the beginning of the call is we're going against the grain and what the grain would say is yeah go ahead you fund retirement you do uh that

you try to you know keep up with your credit card balance and your you know

you can pay a little bit on your car some on your H you know you just spread everything around and you kind of just

get mediocre right mediocrity is what

the result ends up being uh because

there's not intentional focus on one

thing and so the great thing for you Phillip is that you're 31 and so

retirement if you hold off a few years

because how much do you guys make a year how much do you and your wife make U anywhere between 55 and 60k okay

yeah so you guys will have yeah some

time to pay off this car and maybe it's

you know maybe it's uh you take an extra job you guys are cutting stuff you're selling stuff uh you do all of that you

know maybe it's a maybe it's an 18mon

turnaround right 12 months it's a year

okay that's not going to be detrimental to your retirement it's really not I mean overall because you're going to be able to invest more money if you think about just even if you took that car payment and added that to your WTH on

top of what you would have done right like I mean it just it starts to compound and that's the great thing is

that you're going to catch up and and here's the deal too Philip if you were 61 Our advice would be the same

regardless and so so where you are is in

a great spot you are in a you're in a

healthy spot you see the problem attack that car get it out of here and then that's going to free you guys up to use some s have some Savings in an emergency fund do you all have any money saved

right now

uh just our emergency fund uh we had

some medical bills we had a daughter this year and I was paying the taxes from R over my 4on can to a Roth IR okay

and um after after my wife being I'm

maternity leave which we planed to head for that but it kind of puts us back to just having an emergency fund but we

have around $3,000 in savings right now

okay um that's that's all we have at the

moment okay that's great um and I would

be curious you don't need to sell the car because I think you guys can pay this off but even if you wanted to run the numbers for fun Philip I mean there's some people that call the show and they're like I want out of debt tomorrow like I like get me out and they would take a hit on the car take a smaller loan you know get a be I mean

they'll go through that process you don't need to the math is is on your side in that in that regard yeah um

you're not in that urgent of a state but I would say yeah run some numbers while y'all are kind of going against the grain just keep pushing at it yeah I think you'd be surprised how quickly that you'll pay off this 13k um if you

get intense I think it'll go by way

faster than you thought that's encouraging yeah yep

absolutely well thanks for calling Phillip I appreciate and good luck to you guys and congrats on the on the new

addition most definitely the new baby

yeah this is I feel like one of the

things that is a it's kind of a myth in

the personal finance space is that you can do 18 things at once yeah and the

secret is if there is a secret is

especially early on when you're getting out of debt and you're wanting to save a chunk of money in an emergency fund when you are focused and you point everything

at one thing and you spend time on it

even if it takes a year if it takes 18 months 24 months the progress you see in

that is where the idea that personal finan is 80% Behavior it's only 20% head

knowledge comes into play like when you start to win and you start to see

progress not like teeny teeny things

here and there and random things like big steps big progress in one area like

paying off debt it it's it's motivating

well yeah because if if you don't Focus

right let's say you've got $500 extra dollars at the end of the month and you're like I'm going to start paying off debt and each debt gets $50 like you

never see the needle move and before you

know you're like this is not working and you just lose your motivation and you go back to your old habits but when you suddenly take that $500 and you throw it

at a credit card bill that's 2,000 and

you're done Y in four months you're like

wait a second like I can keep going I can do this forever and so there's definitely something to be said for Focus intensity turning it you know

turning the light into a laser beam and you're burning through uh that debt so I

mean that's that's the way to do it that's the way that works yep absolutely absolutely and then again the the idea

that people get caught up just like he did Philip it's such a that's such a normal mindset of freaking out about retirement because we do see these charts of compound interest that if you started at 18 you know what you what you would be all of it which is all great and it's true yeah time is your friend

but yes but getting things in order and

having a peaceful Foundation under you

financially before you start going and

looking far in the future it's it changes everything it changes it changes the emotion around money it really does so thanks again Philip for the call this

is the ramsy [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsay show so Jade

I'm so excited I think it's in two weekends from now yes October 19th

through the 21st our money and marriage

event is happening here at the Ramy

event center right up the hill if you're here uh and it's going to be a multi-day

event over the weekend Dr John Zone and

I are kind of heading it up and we're

really diving into these topics of money

and marriage for a full weekend and Jade

you're going to be here too I am I'm so excited but we were just talking about how this is very different than some of the other events that we've done in a

very good way yes so yeah it's a lot of

um really I think like a just a point of

connection we want to have uh with the

audience because it's couples that are going to be there and again it's these

two subjects that can be really difficult to talk about at times and so

we it's just it's it's going to be very casual yes it's going to be really fun

we want to give you the tools to be able to cast a vision maybe challenge you in

some areas uh to be able to walk away

but there's um some fun guests John and

I uh we doing a panel actually my

husband Winston's gonna be there and

John's wife Sheila which this is a big deal this this never happens the spouses never end up coming but we ROP them and

Jade you're going to be there for your session with Sam Sam's gonna be there too yeah your husband so yeah it's going

to be a hangout we have evening things pln for you guys so it's going to be really fun so our VIP and platinum tickets are already sold out so there's a few more just general emission so if

you want to go go to Ramsey

solutions.com events it's

$799 a couple and yes we want you out of

debt of course we want you on baby steps four five or six but I'm saying for two people at $7.99 yeah for two yep so

again multi-day event and it's going to

be really fun here in Nashville so get some time away from the kids get away

from your normal life come hang out in Nashville with us money and marriage October 19th through the 21st again go

to Ramsey solutions.com events uh to join us love it all right

up next we have Sean in Louisville hey

Shan welcome to the

show hi Jade hi Rachel thank you so much

for taking my call absolutely how can we

help well um so my wife and I are on

baby steps for five six and we found out

that uh we are going to have our second

child um some around June

congratulations thank you so so my my

question is what your all thoughts are

on um pausing um pausing four five and six to

uh to save up for for the

baby okay so you guys I'm just

clarifying you have no debt how much savings do you have in your emergency

fund uh 11 or 12,000 okay that's great

how much how much do you need for the baby like what's your deductible going to be um excuse me um it uh I've looked

through so many numbers actually trying to figure out what plan we're going on

next year um so like out of pocket I

think would be like 7,000 okay

um and you're investing 15% right

now right I would probably pause the

other two I would keep investing I wouldn't stop investing I think still investing your 15% but if you guys want

to kind of like pull back from paying off the you know if you're putting ex sh towards the house or something and you want to pull back and save up what that's going to be uh I think that's that's a good rule of thumb because we always do tell people to pause the debt

snowball if you're getting out of debt

uh to pause that and pile up cash if

you're expecting a baby uh but besides that seaa I mean I would I wouldn't

retirement how much you guys make a

year uh 70k okay have you run out the

numbers um what that would look like

without pausing and where how much are you able to save by June if you if you weren't pausing so if

we just stopped five and six um we're

able to save up like 450 a month but it

doesn't uh it still doesn't quite get us

to the to that 7,000 Mark I think that's

where the um where the concern

is what does it get you

to do the mouth real quick it's I want

to say like I want to say like

5,000 maybe what I would do um I honestly I'll

be honest I wouldn't pause

retirement for that I would and then as

the bills come in I'd pay the bills as they come in

and you might be surprised because I'm

thinking I'm trying to think back through this Rachel of when I had babies

and some of the stuff came in right away

some of it I prepaid and most of it's at

the end most at the end and they start rolling in but it's not like it's not like in one day you have to write a check for $7,000 right so MH I'd

probably just cash flow it cash flow the bills as they come in and Sean if you guys get to the get to the end of it and you need $1,000 from your emergency funds then it's not the end of the world yeah grab the th000 you have saved there

keep funding retirement put your $ th000

you know back into the emergency fund refill it and you guys just keep going but I I would hate for you to lose um Steam on that now if you were

telling me that you needed $177,000 or something yeah then we can

talk about it but the fact that you guys are so close to be able to cash flow it and the bigger thing too here is is I wouldn't want to for me it's a habit

forming thing I wouldn't want to build the habit of when we need to do something we stop retirement does that

make sense even though this is very important I think there's something to be said for that resourcefulness okay how can we make this work because going forward there are going to be things that you need to do not just want to do

but need to do that are going to be you

know very expensive and I don't want to

build the thought of well we could pause retirement for a little while to make it happen does that make sense that's kind of where my mind is going on

and if it were If This Were the conversation going on in my house with Sam that's the that's the argument that

I would bring up I'd be like well Sam you know I think that we can do this without building that habit so yep absolutely so y we'd cash flow it dip into the emergency fund at the end if you need to uh but like Jade said I

think you'll be surprised I think you guys will be able to get through this so thanks for the call up next we have Blake in Salt Lake City Utah hey Blake

welcome to the show hey thanks so much

for having me absolutely how can we

help so I am 23 years old I'm a flooring

contractor married with a 2-year-old son

and we have racked up about 30 well we

racked up $33,000 worth of debt and I've

paid about 3,000 of it off um we're

looking at like looking at my note here $2,200 left

in credit cards um $122,000 on a truck

for my job and

$117,000 on a car for my wife and I want

to plan go to school here in the next

two or three years for an associates degree in uh mechatronic

engineering and I just want to know how

I can best tackle this debt and actually

start saving and putting stuff away yeah

so I can cash flow that school I don't want to go into debt for an associates degree and I love that kind of just lost

yeah no totally uh how much are you

making right now um I make about 70,000

a year gross that's great what about

your wife um she is not working she is uh

just at home with our our boy okay good

um so my first thought is there's always

the the idea that you've got to increase your income the faster you want to pay off the debt obviously the more income coming in is going to be helpful for that so my mind immediately goes to is

there anything that you can do to increase your income and is there anything that your wife can do to get some income coming in cuz when it comes

to paying off debt ,000 extra dollars a

month does a world of difference $2,000

extra a month does a world of difference so that's my first question to you I know she's staying home uh with a young one but is there something that she could do um while she's at

home um she's a before um we had our son

she actually got certified as a child birth Dua uhuh um so that she did that

for a while first married and you know

every once in a while she's brought in you know a couple thousand bucks here and there she just is so anxious about

like spending time away from her from

our boy just because she didn't have a dad growing up

and I totally yeah I hear that and I

would say for a season not a pattern

over life but for a season maybe that's something you guys look into and then also Blake she you guys have almost $30,000 in car debt oh yeah I would look

at the $177,000 car and see how much

it's worth if you guys could sell that I

mean that that knocks down your debt

significantly even if you're upside down

yeah yeah taking smaller loan and then I

mean that gets you guys far ahead so Blake honestly for me I would look I would look at the cars to get a jump start on that so thanks for the

[Music]

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[Music]

Ramsey welcome back to the ramsy show I

am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with

Ramsey personal warshaw we're taking your calls it's a

free call anywhere in the country at

8825 5225 up next we have Jay in

Orlando hey Jay welcome to the show hey

girls how you guys doing doing well how

are you awesome awesome I just uh jump

right into my question here yes um I've

got a pay for house it's worth about

300,000 uh but we have about

150,000 in uh student loans and car or

car debt so I'm wondering is it wise to

sell that home pay off every single

penny of debt uh rent for maybe a year

or two and then um and then uh buy

another home down the road what's your

income I'm working right now myself my

wife is finishing uh PTA School uh

she'll be starting in probably April or

May so right now we're at about 65 ,000

a year and what will she be making when

she starts uh she'll be probably around the

same 65 70 somewhere in that range okay

so you've got the student loans and can you break down the student loans versus the cars yeah we've got about 110 in student

loans okay and then uh about 30 for the

car and the rest in credit cards and a

stupid refrigerator oh gosh so about

10,000 yes okay uh 20,000 um so this car

what you owe 30,000 on it what's it

worth uh we're we're upside down

probably about seven Grand so it's probably worth about 22 or 23 right now

is that private sale private sale yes well if it were me

I'd probably be trying to get out of it um I'd probably take the $7,000 hit and

to to owe less um to knock this debt

down significantly um I'll be honest with you I wouldn't sell the house I just

wouldn't it's such an amazing asset it's

going up in value if you were to get out of it now my guess is your interest rate now is far better than it would be in

the next year or so if you were to save up and try to buy it's like I almost feel like you'd be going backwards to try to go forward when right now literally you can just go forward yeah and Jade and your wife when

is she going to start work when did you say she graduates uh she graduates in December

she's taking her board in April so

she'll probably uh be working like the

end of April early May next year okay

okay so you still you guys have about six months to that so I mean honestly your life changes dramatically Jay once

she starts working so you guys I mean

it'll take you guys you know a few years to do this but I would rather spend a few years getting out of this Consumer Debt than taking a hit on an asset like

a home like I just don't think um

selling it and here's another thing Jay that I always caution people not that it's always and you can go do what you want and some people they want to sell their house they want out of debt they want to do it but but here's the problem

too when you get a lump sum of money

this is even true with an inheritance or you know if you had an insurance claim and you you know got some cash a big

sweep of just getting some cash just to

clear out the debt yes that's great because we want you debt-free but also

there is something about Behavior change

that is so crucial and behavior change

is caused when you feel a level of pain

you feel a level of sacrifice and you actually win like when you go through that Journey that's what changes you Jay

and so not that you know if you get a bunch of money we want you to pay it off right I'm not saying not to do it but

also in the same time it doesn't always

change Jay it doesn't always change you it doesn't change your wife when you just can you know just do this full sweep so you know Rachel I think I am going to say not to do it not to sell

the house no we D yeah I think we're

gonna like yeah don't sell the house

make yourself go through this process you guys need to do it and and you're going to get a jump start on this process in six months like these next six months you're going to feel it Christmas J is not going to look like Christmas last year like you're going to be cutting back on things and that's okay for a season and then when your wife starts working that's going to be gasoline on this and like Jade said and

if you if you sell the car you know then

that brings you guys back down to what

120 125 I mean you know you're just

starting to knock this stuff out and so

and you've got okay so they've got the 20 the 20,000 in credit cards and

refrigerator loans that to me like

that's that's the kind of debt that keeps you motiv at because it's like $2,000 here and a th000 like those are

the quick wins that you start to go oh

oh yeah we can do this so the way I'll

just say the way your debt is set up it's the kind that's like yes like we can really see this traction we can see

the movement forward so yeah do not sell

that house walk through it yep absolutely does that help Jay yes that absolutely helps thank you

so much I appreciate that absolutely and

remember always you guys and those of you listening or watching that you know

the the Deep you sacrifice and the

deeper you say we're not going on a

summer trip next summer we're not doing

Christmas like we like you just have a season where things are cut back and it's not forever it's not forever it's for a season to get this progress to get

this debt paid off and then Jay you guys are s what's crazy to me is I'm like you

know after this journey of maybe what two years three years doing this yeah

you guys are going to be sitting in a paid for home with M you know you guys

are going to be making I mean oh my gosh oh yeah a lot yeah yeah 1:30 I mean like

it's it it it's powerful to know what

your income is going to be able to do

when all this debt is cleaned up so the future is there we see it we see not to mention so many people Rachel right now are like this housing market is so hard

with interest rates and everything it's so hard to save enough down payment I'm

like if you can avoid that because you already have property I would not want

to jump into that if I didn't have to nope nope not at all all right Jay thanks for the call up next we got Jen in Sacramento hey Jen welcome to the

show hi Rachel and Jay thank you so much for taking my call absolutely how can we

help yes so um I'm wondering if I should

change jobs uh while pregnant or stay at

my current job which is far away okay um

my husband and I are currently on baby step number two and we just found out

that we're expecting our second child next June oh

congratulations thank you yeah so we

both work a hybrid schedule we're two and a half hours away and it pays more

um stays with his family two nights out

of the week just to stay close to work and I go in twice a week which is a 5our

commute each day we almost a year yeah

we've been doing this for almost a year now and so now that we're expecting our

second child this is just kind of on my

mind what are you guys earning at this job to make it worth it or is it not

worth it it is worth it so he works

actually two jobs he works at a hospital and admin and he also got a side hustle

as a adun professor uhhuh um my job I've

been getting a raise since I started but it doesn't pay as I mean it pays pretty

decent what is it I'm in a an administrative

coordinator yeah but what are you guys earning healthare oh so our total take

home income a month is

15,200 okay um and we have $100,000 in

stud of loans um a car loan balance of

7900 we have a mortgage with 377k left

um and then we also have a loan for a solar panel which is about

23

okay so I don't know if I I want to work

part-time but that would like cut into like our goal of like trying to pay off debt um and also work like closer

considering like a change in career like maybe a preschool teacher but I don't

know I definitely think that the 2 and 1

half hours is not sustainable like you can't continue to do that especially

with the kids coming um that being said

I do think you need to find a happy median because going from 15,000 a month

when you have this debt down to

preschool teacher sell you know what I mean that's a big jump down so I think

that there's got to be a way that you can meet in the middle um in order to

make this happen um and kind of do it

gradually to where you're still having a nice shovel to pay off this debt because the hard thing to walk away from is such

a high income when you do have that debt and with that income you could knock it

yeah 100 Grand in student loans right I

mean and that's I'm sure for was it for you and your husband yeah majority of it's mine

yeah and okay you know like don't get me

wrong you're pregnant there's some things that go into that obviously once you have a baby but I try to ride this

out until as long as you can until

you've got to make that switch because when the baby's born for sure you're going to have to make that switch and you should start preparing now yeah and if you're 6 months pregnant and you don't want to be sitting in a car for 5 hours EX that's very understandable Jen so so looking at yeah how how long you

can do that and when you switch jobs

though insurance is Big so you want to

make sure your insurance is covered because with the pregnancy and everything make sure you don't miss that

because it may be worth it just stay in just for the insurance to make sure you and baby are good so make sure to cover

that J but yeah this is the hard thing with debt you have it and it's like oh

my gosh we have to pay this off and some sacrifices have to be made so congrats though on the new baby Jin uh and thanks

for the call all right that puts the

sour in the book thank you Jay for being a great co-host thanks to all the guys

in the booth for helping us out this is

the Ramsey

Show hey it's Rachel Cruz if you love

the show and want a deeper dive on your

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[Music]

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships I am Ramsey personality

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with the

wonderful and the fabulous Ramsey personality Jade warshaw we are here to

answer your calls America and it is a

free call anywhere in the country at

8825 5225 so make sure uh yeah give us a call

let us know what's your what your thinking what your questions are and we'd love to walk through your situations with you that's what we're

here for so up first we have Taylor in

Nashville here in our home City

Nashville Taylor welcome to the show

hi thank you for having me absolutely

how can we help um so well I just actually am

calling for my boyfriend um unfortunately he had gotten caught up into some things that had landed him in

jail for about two years unexpectedly oh

okay um he is home now um and during

that time his mother was able to keep

his car payment and his mortgage paid um

but of course wasn't able to also take

care of his like personal loan debt and

credit card debt of course you know he's

very thankful that she was even able to do that sure um and now that he you know

he is home he is on like a you know

probation parole type thing um where

really selling his house is not an

option um even though he does have quite a bit of equity because then he would be

homeless and being on supervision you

have to have an address of course right

um and his credit score is you know in

like upper mid 400s right now just

because all of that credit card debt and personal loan debt is now in collections

and has been for you know about a year

and a half now and how much debt is it total um in collections total it's about

30,000 uhhuh and then he owes about 133

on his house uhuh 133,000 on his house

and his car he owes about what it's

worth which is about 13,000 and is he working is has he been

able to find any work coming out of jail

yes um we were he's making about $15 an

hour right now I have gotten him you

know like an every dollar budget kind of

laid out so as far as like that goes you

know obviously he's slowly trying to

work up that baby step one yeah um but

just having all of it in collections

it's just hard to find really any information on you know like if that

settlement might be an or bankruptcy or

if we should you know contact them directly it's just really hard to kind of find any advice really yeah is it mostly credit cards in the collections or personal loans or what um credit

cards and then there is one personal loan okay how much is the credit cards

credit cards is about 20,000 okay and are those

separate cards how many um about three or four and then I

think there's like yeah about three or four and are those all from different banks and yeah everything okay if it

were me I would start with those like

once he's got the Thousand saved because he really does need that I'd start with the collections first obviously and I

would like let's just say he's got one credit card in collections that's $2,000

I'd stack up $600 or $700 and I'd say

this is what I have can we make a deal

and they're going to make it if it's in collections they're going to make a deal with you the key there is making sure you get every deal in writing before you

pay them the money right and you're

you're not giving them access to your account you're saying okay I'll write you a check or I'll do it online whatever that is um and you're keeping

that record forever and I would literally go down the list of those

credit cards and I'd settle them for as low as I possibly could make sure you have the cash ready because you know you

can't just call and say what would happen if I did this they're going to be

like no we want your money but if you say look I and honestly in this case I'd

shoot straight I'd be like look I just got out of prison this is what I have I got $500 and if you don't take this you're not getting anything from me so

take it or leave it and Taylor usually with these collection situations they're

passed and then they're sold to another collection agency and then another I mean this could be the third time handed down you know one of these credit card debts so just just know the the the

system that you're working under and it's and the you know people aren't in

these jobs forever they're sitting in a cube somewhere I mean like it's just it's just a it's just a nasty industry

it really is and so uh getting yes

someone and I think the key here is what you're saying is you need to pull up his credit reports you need guys need to find exactly that okay good where the

debt is what it is and then try to find

that yes Whoever has that um that bill

and collections calling the collections agency and Jade is exactly right majority of the time they will settle with you and if you have that cash say I can send this to you now and they may want to negotiate a little bit so kind of play the game but if but when they

say okay fine we'll take the

$721 say okay great I need you to mail

me um you know with a letter like give

me an official letter of agreement

and once I receive that I will I will send the money and so you guys just kind of work work that through and then for

his car um I don't know I feel like this

is the sell the car show so far today

but honestly I'm like it's $133,000 and

um and I know he needs a car for work so

if the payments are not overwhelming him

but where he's at again you want these

debts knocked out but simultaneously if

there was any other way do you know what

the payment is uh 444 W who W that is

kind of high yes um whenever he got it

he had just started building his credit

so his interest rate was high yeah um

and you know and now we it's unfortunate because he does have about with the he

bought his house right before the market kind of went crazy um so if he was to

refinance you know he'd have about 100K

in equity in his house um so it is kind

of unfortunate it's just hard to you

know he can't be homeless what is his is

well okay selling his house doesn't make

him homeless because he can rent right

so what is his mortgage payment having

like this felony record um finding

somewhere tuent um is a real big issue in the area

that he's in I here well what's his

mortgage and are you helping him with his mortgage because $15 an hour not his

boyfriend or his mom lives with him currently because she just um had to

move out of her house or her apartment

so she's living with him helping him but the mortgage is about 1100 a month yeah

that's okay um

okay

I this is his situation not yours um oh

yeah 100% I'm just trying to I'm a you

know working my own baby step yeah I'm

just trying to advise him the best I can

because um I'll be honest theage and

stuff on it the mortgage and house thing does scare me making $15 an hour and

having to kind of depend on whoever is

able to live with him at the moment um that might be a problem for down the line

um yeah if I were talk yeah we good well

part of me would get out of that because it's just debt that

he tayl you're nervous that he's not going to be able to find a place to rent because of his felony record is that correct but I feel like you could do the

I feel like if you it's not like to say that hey sell the house and then look for a place but maybe you can start doing the research on the front end and

just keep keep bringing it up

you know 12 months a manager of an apartment

complex will work with him cuz Jade's

right there's a lot on here um and where

he is you know just in life uh it's just

a lot so Taylor the places that he can

take off that weight so whether it's selling the car the housing situation is

big and as Jade you know pondering all

that like it's true it's it's a big piece of this puzzle um but I would

start with that Collections and you guys work on that and Taylor you're very supportive very so thanks for all that you're doing in his life that's huge this is the ramsy

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more

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade

warshaw fellow Ramsey personality and

taking your calls so Jade I feel like in

life there's these moments in your life

that you look back and you're like oh yeah that changed everything right uh I

think about like September 11th and the

way you go through airports changed everything right so different moments and so one of those moments in history

for us will forever be Co yes that it

changed everything is what it feels like

and it changed the way that we do life

the way that we shop what we expect the

convenience element suddenly you don't

have to go on target you can just pull right up and oh man they bring the bags

out to you so some of that's good all

these new features yes uh but but

Americans uh they have not slowed down

when it comes to their online purchases

so whether it's Amazon or door Dash uh

these things are more popular than ever we got used to things being dropped right at our door comfy cozy and there

was an interesting article from USA Today that's right it says prices are up

it says although the pandemic has eased

Americans seem to be spending more than ever for the convenience of having

groceries meals and household wears

delivered directly to their doors the

average delivery service customer is

spending this is crazy around

$47 a month in 2023 that's up $157 from

2021 my gosh it doubled in two years

that's what help me understand Rachel

because I'm like wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute on the one side all

you hear is inflation interest rates I

can't do anything I can't student loans

and everybody's like their life is

imploding but somehow they're still able

to Door Dash you know that sub sandwich

and I'm like how McDonald's yeah that

that's the funniest thing like McDonald's some somehow you still are

eating McDonald's in bed that they've delivered to you even though cost probably more than your McDonald's meal oh come on let's talk about that it says in the lining tree survey 82% of

customers or consumers said they used

OnDemand delivery over the past year by

and large the survey found that consumers chose delivery out of what

convenience always Comfort which I get

that's okay I want okay so I want to know from you what you and Sam your

household because I'll tell I I'll go first here's what we you go first Rachel

before Co I went to the grocery store

all the time yeah and did it y'all

during covid and now after I still have my instacart subscription and it is the

most convenient wonderful thing it is so

for me it is convenient the grocery

delivery and the best one is it has Costco so I don't true that and I still

will randomly go into Costco because I'm like there's still some stuff that I may miss but to have Costco delivered to to

my door look I I do I pay the extra fee

and I pay the subscription well your delivery fee technically is taken care of if you have the subscription and then

I tip on top of that so it is more and

they do kind of mess with the prices I think so like overall I oh they 100% do

I know I'm spending more I know I am like instacart tells you but to be a mom

and not have to take three kids in the grocery store and I come home and like

it's there I don't know and Donna

delivered it and I'm like Donna thank you you made my day Donna so much better

so that is that that's my it's my guilty

PL it's my it's where I spend Jade I

don't do food delivery I don't do to eat

unless it's like pizza delivery or something but other than that I don't do

yeah like Pizza Del delivery I don't feel like that falls into this category because they've always delivered like that's always been the thing okay do you not do your you do I'm going to be honest um Co didn't make me do the

grocery delivery thing like I enjoy

going to the grocery store it I prefer

not going with my kids but I like to go

I like to browse the aisles what made me

start switching to grocery deliveries I kind of live out far from the stores

that I like and now I work outside the

home and I didn't do that before and so

those two things so my point is whatever

the convenience is cuz for some people

they got in the comfort level after covid other people you know they're

their life changed and it's like hey now this is I'm not going to call it a necessity but it does make your life easier yeah for sure but here Honestly

by and large here's the real thing if you can afford it I'm not mad at you

sure but if you can't afford it like if

you're like yeah door Dash on my credit

card bad idea like that's the worst idea

ever cuz you've got the look if you're

putting door Dash on your credit card can we just run this number down real quickly Rachel oh man do an interest

rate of like 22% on the card oh God 22%

added pain and regret then you add your

nachos on top of that then you add the

tip for Chad on top of that and then the delivery fee the delivery fee yes yeahoo

it better be worth it those nachos better go down smooth and easy cuz

here's the thing they're going to leave

later they're leaving it's not even

worth it only for a moment you're literally flushing money down the toilet that's all I got to say about that for a moment I know I know okay and then the

other one that hurts me on this two Jade is Amazon oh gosh Amazon I'm an offender

I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm a I'm a repeat offender and here's the danger

with Amazon is everything start to feel

like a need where I'm like oh um I'm

trying to think like um my kid's little

power wheels battery died and I just got

one yes yep and you're like we'll just we'll just Amazon it we'll Amazon it we and it's this like convenience of life

where before I'm like something stupid

like a light bulb would burn out I'm like oh next time I go to the store I'll fix it may be like you know it might be months a week yeah weeks months later

cuz back in the not with Amazon it's going to be there in two days and it's yeah that money is being spent so that is so true it is it it it does mess I

think with our needs versus wants things can start to feel like that so again

convenience is not bad and and in my season of life that is where I would tend to put some of my margin yeah is

towards the conveniences because it just

makes life easier with three little kids all the things and people were were scattered everywhere um but also I will

uh I will Echo what you're saying it

definitely your thinking yeah and if

you're in baby steps especially one through three you guys it adds up it

adds up and we are sitting here admitting it adds up and we pay for it

and we do it and we know it we kind of

swallow that pill and go but if you are

looking to cut back these are great

places great places to cut back delete

the amazom app you got to delete the app thank you Rachel that's what I was getting to if you're in baby step one or three you cannot have it on your phone you got to delete the app door Dash uh

Amazon what's another one definitely I

think about all just all the subscriptions Uber Eats Uber Eats

instacart instacart in I know sorry

instacart you just can't let it tempt

you it's like because it it adds up

right and I think I would be sick to my stomach if I went and grocery shopped with my exact list and went in the store and just bought versus probably what

what I pay for with the added up I mean like it is it's a it's a difference so

if you're looking for margin if you're looking for margin these are great places to cut but again majority of

Americans are not cutting them the average Millennial is spending

$575 a month on onDemand delivery well

you know some the past year some of the

deliveries um let's talk about this part

of it Rachel because some of the you can

kind of meet it in the middle right like you can do like Kroger clicklist and

have them you know the drive up yes

which is actually great because you can see the total yes and stick within your budget that that is a good one you know

where you know you order you order them online and then you go pick it up that way you're not wandering through you know you're still saving time on that um

also now not not if you're in baby step 2 but if you are ordering food like how easy I

mean again there's cooking dinner at

home which is like oh man and then there's I'm going to order it and go at least pick it up can you just put the

key in the ignition can you throw some sweatpants on and go choosing a delivery

choosing delivery over a trip to the store triggers delivery fees service fees and tips together they make up to

36% of food delivery costs wow so it's a

lot you're making bank adding you're adding a lot and then SE charges on top

of that so wow INF yeah y'all if if

you're looking for margin we are used to the life of convenience since Co but I

would say Nix it for a season get that

cash back that's right get that margin

back and it is it will give you more

peace of mind because we all need some

peace Jade because we are a we are a

world of a ball of anxiety and our we

are the levels of anxiety are up you

guys sadly the depr question is right there with it and thankfully we have Dr John deloney on our team who gives us

truth when it comes to this subject and he has a brand new book out called building a non-anxious life it's available now and you guys listen it is

this is such an important to important topic to talk about your your mental

health and taking care of who you are as

a person overall don't neglect that like

step into that and learn and if this is

something that you're interested in or

have questions on or feel like oh my gosh I just need a guide in this whole

area of my life order John's book order

John's book go to Ramy solutions.com

order John's new book building a

non-anxious life you will not regret it

this is the ramsy

[Music]

show [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsay show I am

Rachel Cruz hosting with Jade warshaw

and we're here taking your calls it's a free call anywhere in the country at

8825 5225 here to talk about your life

and your money all right up next we have

Jonathan in Minneapolis hey Jonathan

welcome to the show hi thank you for taking my call how

are you this afternoon absolutely we are doing great Jonathan how are you doing

I'm doing very well so um my parents are

a few years away from retirement uh my wife my parents and I

are thinking about selling both of our

houses and combining living situations

into one larger

house um it would involve temporarily uh

at least temporarily um increasing the balance of

my mortgage in order to make that

transition and I I've got more details

if you want to go through those but uh that's quick overview what's the purpose

of combining

homes um so my parents will likely in

the next few years have some medical situations that would make them not able

to take care of a house long term um and so basically the house that

we're looking at would be essentially a

basement apartment the size of about their current house um and then we would be able to

help take care of them they would be able to grow up around their grandkids

and everybody's on board with the

situation in principle um I think

we there's some question on would this

be able to work in the short term versus

trying to make that or trying to wait a few more years what would

happen whose name would be on the deed

it would be mine or my wife and

I and so can I just can I just jump in

okay I I just feel like Jonathan this this always presents um both before a step like this

this situation sounds

always usually better than the outcome

of what occurs you and your wife do you

guys have kids we do two two kids okay

and how old are you guys uh we're both 32 we have a two kids

under three okay awesome so um very

heroic Noble um the honor and respect

right that you're giving your parents of hey we want to help take care of you like all of that is good um but the

Tactical side of combining living

situations you and your wife now your

unit as a family is disrupted right even

though they're downstairs and all of that like they're the the amount of um

tension and autonomy that will not be

there for your family units is very high

it's very high and so while some situations work we're in-laws and

families live together and maybe that's what you guys still choose to do and all of it I just want to be the friend that doesn't know you to caution you Jonathan

that that that everything you're saying

is so Noble and good and I'm just wondering is there another path that

those things can still happen that your

parents are still taken care of they still see the grandkids all of those um

dreams and wants and desires are still

fulfilled without having to live under

the same roof as your

parents true so pivoting away from a

little bit of the noble side of it um

the what would be in it for um for my

wife and I would be um

that my parents and they're totally on

board with this we've been very transparent with them but um my parents

would help us basically to afford more

house than we would on our own currently

have see and that but that's the part that I would avoid at all costs because

do you want to be a like if something

were to happen like what Rachel said say you get into this and you're like you know what this is not as harmonious as we once thought it was going to be now you're on the hook for a home that you can't afford on your own so there's part

of this that it's a little bit of a risk

there's a big risk there so I would say

if you were going to go ahead and do this I wouldn't get into a home that you

could not afford on your own because and

I because then you're kind of chained to

this deal both of you you are and then

your parents are going to feel bad and then you're going to feel bad and like there's so much that could happen there I did want to ask have you guys ever

lived with these parents before like

early on in marriage like or would this be the first time you guys have all lived under one roof um I did briefly after college um

we actually got married in their current house um but not not for a sustained

period of time now how

long um so after college I lived back home

for a couple of months and then um I mean we stay with them

anytime we visit but not more than a week at time but not with your wife I'm

saying well with with my wife not after

college but with my wife for periods of

so John so part of your so your motivation to do this is to be the noble

taking care of your parents and getting a bigger house essentially that you guys couldn't afford on your own but you get you and your family get an awesome big house okay right of economy the scale

with it brings down our living expenses

for both sides um but yeah that's that's

kind of bills and like like electricity

and water uh like is that you're thinking

when you're food maintenance of two

separate houses okay okay okay what the situation

you guys are in right now Jonathan the house that you're in what what's is

there is there problems with that is there size issues is there like is there

anything are you guys comfortable in your current living situation long term

I don't see this house lasting us more

than a few more years so why

um the layout of it we've it's 2500

square feet that sounds like a lot more than it feels like the house is um it's

not laid out very well okay and and how

much do you guys owe on that house uh mortgage is 175 remaining for a

house that's worth about 410 410 okay uh

and how much you guys make a year uh 120

single income 120 okay you're making it

and then your parents their situation what how much what what what's their home worth they their home is worth

about 300,000 they have about 65,000

remaining on the mortgage awesome and how much are they are they working

they're still both working and their

combined household incomes about 180

okay and do they have retirement like do they have a nice retirement yes yeah

they're they're expecting their retirement especially if they can keep working a few more years years uh to be

somewhere around 80,000 a year not

drawing from Investments perfect and they'll be having that house paid off soon okay so Jonathan um how far away do

you guys live from each other now about

eight hours how much about eight hours

eight okay so it is long distance right now so you guys want to be you want you want to be close us moving to another

Midwestern metro area okay is it cheaper

than Minneapolis Town comparable they're both

relatively low to comparable okay and

does your do your careers allow you to

move and find something in the same

field amount of money and all I need is

an airport and that would that would work perfectly there okay and um they

they don't need your assistance right now medically correct correct and when

when do you see that

happening

um that's a a situation we'll know more

in um probably six months okay is it

both of them or one of

them potentially both um what is it

what's going what's going on with them can I ask so my my dad has some back

issues that uh

that um causes him pain he's still able

to fully functional yeah he might have

some surgical procedure to try and address it that might have some risks with it okay what about your mom associated with it um she's got she's

got an early screening for potential

dementia I'm sorry um so no no definitive diagnosis

there but would become an issue okay

yeah absolutely um okay I don't want to

sound heartless as I move into tactical real quick we just we have 30 seconds

real fast Jonathan so here's what I would do if I was your friend and me and Winston were out with you Jonathan and your wife over drinks and we're talking about your situation I would say if you

guys want to move closer to family to be with family do it go get your own house

they're about to have a paid for home they're living their retirement dream go close to them so that you guys can can

commute and do what you need to do there

if you if there's no urgency to move now

unless there's something coming there's nothing definitive right now in their medical history that that is necessary a

scary thing in y and that that can be

but I would not combine just to get a

bigger house Jonathan I wouldn't I would I would Nei so that's what Jade and Sam

and Winston and Rachel would say if we were all out to dinner with you Jonathan I'm not doing it y so um I yeah I

appreciate the nobility though Jonathan thanks for the call this is the ramsy

show

[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsay show I am at

Rachel Cruz hosting with Jade warshaw

and taking your calls if you guys have

not checked out Financial Peace University this is something that is a

staple here at Ramsey Solutions um that

I I would really recommend it is our

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join a class actually and be in community with other people while you're doing this but uh we find that people

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um it's a great investment we have that tool in every dollar um premium which is

another it's like the best budgeting

tool on the planet you guys so I just we

were talking to some people that come

here and they sit in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions and they watch the show live which is so fun and so we get to

talk to people during the breaks and everything and uh I would say every dollar is probably the one that gets

brought up of like oh my gosh you know we we use every dollar we love it it's helped us so much and so uh make sure

there's a free version just on the App Store so check that out so we just have some great resources here at Ramy want to be able to help you uh when it comes this to this financial Journey because there's a lot of questions could be a lot of confusion a lot of voices out

there and we want to be clear and concise if you all I agree no every dollar is the that's that's the business right there and because it has the guidance in there for you too so it's like if you have questions it's in there

telling you hey you should probably do this or if you're thinking I wonder if this is enough savings it'll tell you like yeah you need a little bit more like it'll tell you all that stuff it's wonderful yeah and we actually do some webinars around every dollar so if you go to Every doll.com bugeting Jade you're doing some I'm doing some mine's coming up 1010 oh perfect oh it's coming up soon yeah okay so uh go to

everydollar.com bugeting you can sign up for those webinars I'm doing one in November and December I think George campell's doing some as well so we are

um yep here to help you guys so make sure to check out all those resources because we want to help you along this

journey all right up next we have Gregory and bxy hey hey Gregory welcome

to the

show Gregory are you there how are you

doing yes ma'am good how are

you I am doing great how are you we are

doing awesome how can we help

today um I have some questions on how to

get my Roth IRA started um I've heard a

lot about it and I just don't know

exactly where to go and and what to what

to put my money into yeah that's a great

question a great starting off point so

if it were me I would I mean there's

several brokerages that you could open up a Roth IRA with and you could do that

portion on your own just open up the account but when it comes to the investing side of it I would work with a professional I'd work with a smart Vestor Pro and if you're on baby step 4

the goal is that you're investing 15% of

your income are you on baby step

4 uh I am yes man' awesome how much how

much do you make a year uh I make about

60 65 okay perfect perfect um yeah so I

mean yeah you'll be able to invest do you have a 401k at your at your workplace by chance I do um and I have

it maxed out to the match I also have

one with the my second job the reserves

and the Marine Corps I have it maxed out to match to go well done Gregory that's

amazing yeah um so I'm trying to get to

that 15% with the Roth IRA that I wanted

to know how to get to it yeah that's awesome thinking you'll have yeah a little over you know probably Seven Grand to be able to invest uh that 15% and that's uh that's amazing

because you'll take yeah you'll do the match first and that's exactly right

you're doing everything exactly right do the match first and then go over to the

Roth and then for all of you listening out there you know you go ahead and max out your Roth and if you still have 15%

left if you still have percentages left of your 15 go back to your 401k and

you're able to invest in that too um go

back to that but yeah the Roth IRA is

the next step for you Gregory and you can Max it out at 6,000 you probably won't Max it out right now um with your

income but all the extra remaining 15%

you have yes will go into that WTH and

um Jade said it but I would sit down with the smart investor Pro if you go to Ramsey solutions.com we have people all

all over the country who are investment professionals and yeah you can actually open up the account on your own uh but

we we would encourage you to do good

growth stock mutual funds that's right

inside of that Roth IRA uh to invest so

that your money is spread out and um

it's a great it's a great retirement vehicle the Roth yeah tell them you want tell them you want growth aggressive growth growth in income and international that's what you want 25%

of the money you give them into each of those categories and they'll help you pick the funds that are performing best in those areas okay yep awesome Gregory for the

call yeah well done thanks for your service and um man that's it I'm like if

I applaud you Gregory like that's exactly it you get through to baby step four take that 15% and divide it 401K

Roth IR and and you do that over time

and how quickly compound interest is

your friend and and stuff with the WTH You guys like it grows taxfree and it's

and it's huge it does kind of hurt sometimes because you pay with after tax dollars right right right so it does feel a little bit like oh man I got to take it out of like when it hits your account you're like and then it comes out of that like you're like that's a lot you feel it you feel it but you rather feel it now then when you're 60

you know so all day all day long so

great all right up next we have uh Rudy

in Los Angeles hey Rudy welcome to the

show hey guys thank you for having me

absolutely how can we help um so my

question is I am currently upside down

on my carnal hey Rudy are you able to

are you able to speak directly into your phone you're cutting out just a little bit I want to make sure we can hear you yes you guys better now yes wonderful

thanks so I'm currently upside down on

my car loan my car loans for

37,000 um I made some calls let's see um

how much I can get for it and the guy

from auction said I can possibly get 31

maybe 32 for it um that is my means of

transportation at the moment why are you

auctioning it as opposed to so I and put it the VIN

uh the mileage and the details of the vehicle and based on the market value of

the vehicle that's approximately how much they're offering um for the current

condition that it's in did you look at like Kelly Blue Book uh actually tried that the only

thing is um quick backstory uh I got the car last

year um within 6 months that I purchased

the vehicle or I got the Lo for the vehicle it got stolen so on yeah so on

the title it comes as as it's branded

now and so when I put it into Kelly Blue

Book since the car has a branded title

um they don't they don't want to give me

uh an offer you said it has a bad title

but you got the car back and it was your car to begin with yes correct who's

telling you this um I in put it on KY blue books and

other like carvana and uh these other

places and they didn't want to offer me

uh any anything for it they offered me

literally like a dollar for it um

because it it had a it said branded

title vehicle and because of that they

didn't want to give me an offer for it

branded title yes so what about personal

sale personal yeah that's what I've been

trying to look into um do you hold the

title on this car like who it's

uh my mom's a call center with me um so

it's under both of our names

okay interesting okay so are you are you

wondering if you should sell the car or you're you're wanting to sell it

obviously yes but uh I guess my question

is how do it go about it do I wait until

I can uh get a vehicle cash so I don't

feel like I without a vehicle I just

sell it and then work on getting yeah

you could that money to get the vehicle yeah because you'll have to take out a loan of the difference which will be about five grand so what you could do is

just take out a loan for 10 grand and have $5,000 to buy a car um because I would

rather have a $10,000 loan than a

$37,000 loan and so um so yeah so if I

were you you could take out but um always my caution when you do that is it's like oh well we could take out you

know 12,000 we could take out 13 you

could start going deeper and deeper in debt and so being very disciplined in it

and again you're going to be buying a car a crappy car right that's uh that's

going to get you through but yeah I would do that Rudy um I think that's a really smart a smart decision and I know

uh this this whole thing's probably new and you're like oh my gosh how do we how do we go about it but uh I think that's wise take out a small loan uh get a car

and gosh get that $377,000

away I'd rather have 10 than 37 so great

job Rudy Jade great hour thanks to all

the guys in the booth and thank you America for listening this is the ramsy

[Music]

show hey what's up guys it's Jade look

if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps

go to ramsy solutions.com and click the

get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on

your specific situation that's ramseys

solutions.com and click get

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started live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships I am Rachel Cruz

hosting this hour with fellow Ramsey

personality and great friend Jade

warshaw and we are taking your calls

America free call anywhere in the country at

88255 225 so give us a call all right up

next we have Alexandra on the line hey

Alexandra welcome to the show hi hi

Rachel and Jade how are you we are doing

great doing great how can we help

okay so I'm in a bit of a situation here

um so we we purchased a well okay so we

closed on our house um on the 24th of

August oh congratulations and thank you

um I don't know how we got it but we went in with all we had um kind of

desperate just wanting to get out of a $2,100 rent and yep and then we're at a

$1,400 mortgage now um firsttime home

buyers we've been together since sixth grade um um we're 37 years old we have

two um kindergartens that just started

the twin boys started year so um this is

our situation we closed we moved so

we're uh I think about 2 hours north um

from his previous job and I say previous

because two weeks after we closed he

lost his job

no yeah no fault of his own it was just

you know a car that was given to him so

that he can drive to work he was doing

that you know obviously every day um and

so now he didn't have a transportation

to get there because I need the car to

bring the kids to work to to school because they just started school this year um so he's he's unemployed right

now um this is my husband but I'm I'm

I'm so scared because um and I'm hoping

that he can get into something right very soon um we were able to make so we

Clos in August our first um mortgage

payment was on the 1 we were able to make that so we sent it out that's done

it's $1,400 right okay and so now we're having to

pay again you know on the first um we

only have like $1,600 in

savings um the big thing is if he so

we're we're hoping he can get into this new job next week um so it's going to be

a little bit of a a pay cut um so it'll

be at 62 a year he was earning more

closer to 80 a year but now we're out in

the country farm life this is what we wanted this is what we get he's going to get paid less sure um so he's down at

62 can you make can you pay all the

bills with him at 62 I think we can

because if we were already doing it then and and and yeah he was making more but

we were spending much more and then now

I'm like uhuh when I'm doing that yeah

um you know so we can I know we can um

but this is the thing let me get to it quick um the RV we have a RV that is 30k

a note of 30k on it and the payment is

400 bucks a month um I don't know what

to do to it with with it because we're

just just parked in our land here and

and it's it's a 2017 we got it desperately in uh 2021 because we were

needing to get out an apartment that we were living in and the house that we had

you know we were trying to get into at that time it the sale didn't go through

so so that I won't have to release you

know another contract we just went to a

campground and so we got the we got the

RV and then we just kept um house

searching we found the house and then so here we still have it what can you what can you sell it for yeah I don't know to

be honest um I'm sure it's going to be less than what we owe yeah yeah you'll

take a hit on it but you're just trying to stop the payments and stop the depreciation from taking you guys we

don't have any late payments Sunday we were able to make that last month but this is the month right now coming up this one in November is the one that's going to hit us it's going to it's I don't know how we're going to do it yeah

um when will you know if your husband has the job um he will find on Monday and and I

think and I want to go with 90% they're going to take him on okay good yeah and

so it's going to be a pay cut you know um yeah so so I want you the first thing

I want you doing um is you've got a lot

going on and I can tell by the way

you're telling the situ it's like you're just like in this and you're just keep

keeping going um and I want to kind of

clear your head a little bit tonight when you get off the phone you guys sit down run run the numbers use every doll

open up every dollar budget if you don't have it Austin will get it to you and I want you to run the numbers for your paycheck and his paycheck at the 62,000

all right then I want you to run the numbers just in case he doesn't get this

job and go what do we need coming in the house to make sure we're able to fill

because once you have those numbers in your head uh Alexandri you're going to feel so much better because at least you'll know what the real numbers are

what the anecdote is and then you'll be able to make a game plan going forward

what I really want to hone in on and I think Rachel will do a good job with this too is I want you guys there's a

lot of desperate moves going on

everything is oh we got desperate and we had to do this and then we got desperate and we had to do this and we got desperate and the chain here the the

pattern that's happened is when you guys

get desperate you do you make bad

choices and I want that that's got to

stop today so what that looks like is in

in the here and now making a plan for the here and now but not only that but going forward I want you guys to be on a

plan with your money so you know what your goals are you know what's going you know what's coming down the pike and you're in control and you're happening to your life instead of everything around you just happening to you guys and you're reacting and you know you're on the balls of your feet all the time

um that's got to change and I think that a plan for your money is going to help you have you ever heard of Financial Peace University um so no um just recently I

started listening to you guys I to be

honest I grew up I want to say in the

ghetto to be honest I never had money in

my life my both my mom and dad just worked just to yeah take care of five of

us you know so um you know I just grew

up you know working and paycheck to paycheck you know rent rent rent Rent All my life until we were finally able

to get this and it was through an FHA that's why I say we

lucky to get it but you know here we are we're so happy we have a nice little house sure sure but but also you're so

happy but you're also very stressed okay so what we want you to see is and Jade's

exactly right being proactive with your money versus reactive and you just said it and I think the way we grow up with money is a huge part of our story and that's what was modeled for you um but

now the beautiful thing is now you get to change that so Alexandra stay on the line Austin's going to pick up and we're going to give you every dollar premium which is our budgeting app that we'll we'll attach to your checking account it

will and you guys will be able to bring in transactions you'll be able in real time to be budgeting your expenses what Jade was saying and we're going to give you Financial Peace University which is

our nine lesson course and you and your husband you guys need to learn how this

stuff works and Alexandra I'm going to warn you it's going to feel uncomfortable you said you're new to all of this and when you you have to get to

this point and you're there I feel it and you're in your voice and why you called is you're not happy with your current situation what you guys have done that led you up to this point yes he lost his job unbeknownst to him I get it stuff has happened you are not happy

with where you are which means you have to change what you've been doing and change is hard Alexandra it's hard and

so you're going to be doing some painful things that are going to feel uncomfortable because they're new but they're the right things to be doing we

are the best in the business at getting people in control of their money so listen to the plan follow the plan Don't

Stray From it and so looking at your

numbers getting facts on paper is going to give you some breathing room you're probably going to be selling the RV you guys may have to take a second job in order to to float the bills for for the

next month which is okay hopefully he gets his job and you guys are on track

but you guys got to get your craft together because craft together because you're going to end up in the same place again but we believe you guys can do it you can you can you got to make the

[Music]

change

[Music]

our question of the day comes from

neighborly and it's your hub for Home

Services neighborly has top quality providers like Precision Door Service

Junk King and more more to help you take care of projects before the weather gets

cold so find the local help that you

need by downloading the neighborly app

today all right all right today's

question comes from weson Rhode Island he says I attended University of Phoenix

back in September 2014 and I have around

10,000 in federal student loans I

recently received an email from the FTC

saying that because University of Phoenix committed fraud and used

unethical tactics to get student loans

to get students to en en roll federal

student loans are going to be forgiven for anyone who enrolled between 2012 and

2014 I was very happy to receive this

news however when it comes to federal

government forgiving student loans I

don't have faith that it'll happen should I have very for good reason

should I pause my payments and let nature take its course or continue

making payments um I you know this is a

really good question and I'll be honest there's been a lot of conversation and

narrative around student loan forgiveness is it good is it bad should it happen should it not happen um in

cases where there's been true fraud fraud like yeah this is by the government they ensure this so no it

will be paid yeah it'll be paid and you

don't have to feel bad about that's the kind of forgiveness that I'm like yes please green button you need to get your

money back um and I think it will be

paid now he says should I pause my payments and let nature take its course or continue paying um you know because

of the way student loans are set up right now what I might do is I might put the money in account like in an account and kind of like set it aside and then when the when the actual forgiveness comes through I'll feel good about like okay I can let that money go um what

would you do I mean that's what I would do yeah I would contact because I mean

most of these places have um contacts

especially if it's a specific year like this it sounds very specific yeah so I would get in touch with somebody uh to

be able to say hey what's the timeline what's going on and kind of see where they're at because I mean you definitely

don't want to get in a situation where you're getting behind on payments and for some reason this doesn't go through right um but I would kind of get a feel because again this is this is legal fraud so in this case uh the government

does ensure that I mean and this happens

a lot and and sometimes that hits the headlines where they're like so and so

right now it's Biden Biden Administration forgives x amount of student loans you know this happened with Trump too but I'm like those that they were forgiving were actual fraud cases like the sitution very specific

very narrow and they have to by federal

law yeah you know I mean that that that

is that they're they're living out what

the law says so it's not like these you

know it's a hero kind of thing yeah Phoenix they screwed you or whatever you

know the way they did it like it's it's fraudulent so what I wouldn't want is

for him to stop paying something

accumulate above and beyond and them say

well like that doesn't count I don't I don't think they would but I would definitely do what you said get clarity get clarity get something in writing that you know um but I think that these

kind of situations they do end up clearing up which is awesome it will pay you yep for sure uh well dang Wes guess

that's great yeah ding ding I guess but

at the same time it's like yeah my school doesn't exist it was fake does

University does is it gone it's gone it is gone like the IT Tech those Jokers

are out man yeah can you imagine can you

imagine I'd be so pissed that would be

so hard that you have a degree and you're like listen I don't know although in my case I think I'd like the money back I think I'd rather have the money back and be like oh your school doesn't

exist I think I have the money absolutely give me the cash give me the

cashy all right up we have Amanda in

Tyler Texas hey Amanda welcome to the

show hi thank you for having me

absolutely how can we help so my question is I have about 30

actually I looked at it I've got about

$35,000 in credit card debt um I'm going

through a divorce and so the beginning of the divorce I had zero thank you um

at the beginning of the divorce I had um

you know zero debt I had we had $40,000

in savings cars paid off basically you

know doing everything that we should be doing um you know according to Dave

rams's um teachings and uh now I've got

all this debt but I only get

$2,700 a month and I've gotten to the

point where the attorney fees keep

coming and I can't keep up with it and

so I have haven't made my payment on my

three credit cards for two months

and my question is do I just let it go

because I need to be saving money for more attorney fees or do I try to find

some like I keep getting emails I mean

um letters for debt consolidation do I

try something like that or do I just let

my credit score you know continue to think yeah

are you are you working Amanda I don't I'm a I'm a homeschool

mom and at the time at right now I can't

move and I can't change the kids

schooling and so I tried picking up some

side jobs um but then I ended up getting

needing to be hospitalized for a short amount of time and um and so I have

those bills that I um submitted for

claims because since I'm still married I still have medical insurance and um he's

refusing to sign the necessary paperwork

so now I have the medical facilities

calling me saying hey you owe us $40,000

cuz your claim was denied so I'm just

drowning um and knowing that once the

divorce is over with I probably won't

even be able to rent something because my credit score is going to be so horrible it started off as great and now

it's down like in the six low

600 okay well the credit score for right

now would not be my concern um yeah the

40,000 that the medical I mean if you're still legally married I mean I would have your lawyer on that that that that

feels that feels off to me the fact that he's not uh you know accepting your

claim because you technically still do have insurance but I mean I want to know you know just just to look out for you

um what what are you planning on doing

when this is all final because you will

need health insurance you will need a

job and income coming in because I don't know if you can live you can't live off $2,700 a month with the kids especially

no yeah um so my plan was to go back to

school I was going to school to be a court reporter and so I was planning on

finishing you know doing that online

while I just worked you know I don't

have any experience so you know I'd have to do things like pet sitting and uh

waiting tables it's going to be a rough few years yeah but without an education

I really can't take care for kids even

with um child support yeah it's just can

I I'm going to push you just a little bit on that one um because we do I mean

the the the world has shifted to a to a

degree that that college degrees it

doesn't matter nearly the way it used to the way it used to so I even wonder Amanda for you like finding a great you know even a receptionist job at a

dentist office like a dentist office finding finding something that gives you the hours you need gives you the benefits that you need cuz you're going to want the whole package instead of piecing together all of these side

hustles um so I think you have more to

offer uh than you think and I understand

it's very int it would be very intimidating going into the workforce where you don't have experience yeah you you said you've been you know a mom you've been homeschooling kids but even

the skill set that you had that what

you've just done can be very impressive

to people that need help and in Tyler Texas there's probably a lot of small businesses that need admin work and all that so I would give yourself way more credit Amanda not that waiting tables and dog sitting is is bad it's not but

you can earn more money but you can do more and you will want to do more and

have more you know available when it

comes to benefits and everything just to take care of you you and the kids and so

um I would I would push you on that first and foremost that when that when that comes and um and I would be looking

for something as soon as possible because is the $35,000 in credit card

debt is that just living expenses that

you've had to rack up because you don't have enough money to pay the bills no um it's actually mostly

attorney fees and medical because I've

been covering all of all of the medical

bills okay um for myself and and our

children and so so is the is the 35 so

you mentioned 35k in credit cards and 40,000 in medical is that kind of synonymous then if you've been paying it on the credit cards no the 40,000 is just it's new

it's as of last month um that came in

addition to it um yeah and the other

issue is that now I've kind of ran the

divorce have been going on for a year

and so it could be going on even longer

um yep okay so um so me yeah keeping up

with those attorney fees it may cause some of that debt to continue to increase but I think looking for a job

and supplemental income is going to be

your next bet just to get you on solid

foundation and taking care of yourself too Amanda I hate we we have a hard clock out here in a second but hang on the line Austin's going to pick up and I'm going to give you John's new book uh building a non-anxious life because taking care of you Amanda overall is going to be really important in this season thanks for [Music]

calling [Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey show we are

taking your calls America at

8825 5225 up next we have Tracy in Phoenix

hey Tracy welcome to the

show Hello thank you so much for taking

my call absolutely thanks for calling in

how can we help yeah this really is going to take a

lot of stress off of me um so I have a situation where I just moved from Georgia and I have a home there that's paid off um it's probably worth we

haven't appraised it yet but it's probably worth between 280 and 300,000

okay um I moved to Phoenix and I live in

an apartment um and I'm currently um you

know just trying to get my credit score

up and I'm actually working with the lender so I can purchase a home here um

now I have the down payment um the 20%

to buy a home here and me selling my

house in Georgia has nothing to do with

me purchasing here oh wow and so my

question is yeah so my question is um

should I sell the home in Georgia and

use some of that um money to make the

payment lower and to bring it you know

the house down in Phenix a little bit

lower and then possibly buy a second

home here as a rental and put the other

half maybe on that home or should I

leave that house in Georgia as a rental

property sell it yes it I would say

unanimous yep unanimous sell it and I

would put everything of that home Tracy

um that 300 to the home in Phoenix I

would not look at a second property until that house is completely paid off do you have other

debt um I do that's the thing I I just

recently paid off a lot of credit cards but I do have about

158,000 and

stop okay I feel like you're jumping the

gun a little bit yeah we may have a plan for you Tracy we have we have no other debt it's

me and my husband combined we make about

195k that's great good for you guys can

I tell you my plan can I tell you the

Jade plan plan this is what I would do I

would sell the No No matter what you do

you're selling the home in Georgia that's we got to get rid of you don't live there anymore and so it's just going to be can I ask one one number question to help your argument hey how much how much is the 20% down how much

cash do you have saved in the 20% cuz we're add that to all

this the 20% well I have about 25 which

actually it's really not the 20% it's the 5% okay oh that's fine how much is

it 25,000 I could yeah it's about 25 but

I could access it do my husband's 401K

no no no no we don't do that how much cash Tracy do you have saved

25,000 25 yeah okay perfect okay you and

now I do have another question so you've got 25,000 saved is that the only

non-retirement money you have lying around or do you have other

non-retirement

savings I have no other non-retirement

money okay this is what Jade would do I

would like if Jade and Sam woke up in your shoes tomorrow I'd be like okay Sam

I think we should sell the house in Georgia pocket you know take home

280,000 and then with that money I would

knock out the student loans and then I

would put the rest with the 25,000 that

you have saved towards a down payment

now my next question is that I want to

do that but now let me go back because you need savings you need three to six months of savings before you buy a house

you'll she'll end up with about 155 yeah

$155,000 so I would put sum in savings

three to six months of expenses and how much would that be if you were to rough that out Tracy um monthly expenses yeah like

basic basic budgeting

expenses let's just say 4K with the

kidss tuition per

month yeah okay so around 25,000 for six

months okay so we got we got

$143,000 to put towards a house and look

at that and you're debt free with

savings wow look at that come on Tracy

are you doing a happy dance that's

great I am doing the happy dance see

some people are saying you should never sell a house that's paid off number they

don't know what they're talking about yeah and it was your primary home

Tracy if that was your primary home and you're still living in Georgia that's one thing but you're being a long-distant landlord you have an asset

which is amazing but you also have

liability which is your debt and so you're able to clean all that up still get a great house in Phoenix with an emergency fund in place like you're going to be M good to go um and you're

going to have a lot more peace than

trying to finagle all of this stuff so

you're starting on really really solid

ground Tracy I mean like you're this is

it's amazing what kind of the houses that you're looking at in Phoenix considering you have $143,000 left to to what how much are

the houses you're looking at like 538 high

30s No 5 oh five 538 okay and so when

you do go to buy a home let's go over these parameters because we want to make sure that it's it works out for you the way we would teach and the way that you

know I've always bought my homes is 15year fixed mortgage where the payment

is no more than 25% of your take-home

pay that's what we're looking for so if you

can do that with the down payment which you shouldn't have any trouble um but

that's what you're shooting for but the 15-year fixed rate is really where that's the one where people are like n can't I just do the 30 it's like the goal here is to pay things off and to

get that ultimate freedom of debt Freedom so that's why we'd say 15E fixed and you might get a better interest rate as well um by going that route but is

that what you're planning to

do yeah um the interest rates right now

are like 8% aren't they High I don't

know if I yes they're higher most

definitely for sure for sure but the 15

year you'll get a better rate but Jade is saying versus the 30 so okay yeah so

Tracy I mean that's yeah that's exactly

the the road we would take and it just sets you up that and you guys make great money you know you'll have about 350

left on the mortgage to be paying off but you're making 200 so you guys have this house paid off uh you know on

average we find people pay off their house in seven years s to 10 years and

it's it's amazing and you guys are going to be just Trucking along with not de no

debt and just yeah it's gonna be amazing

so glad you called in Tracy glad you

called in all right we got Payton up next in Lexington Kentucky hey pton

welcome to the show hi Rachel hi Jade

how are you we're doing great how can we

help so I'm on baby step two I have paid

off $30,000 nice car left I'm sorry you have

a what thousand car left left 30,000 we

were cheering Payton sorry we missed we missed the number no thank you um I have

an $88,000 settlement coming in within

the next four to six weeks and that will

put me a right side up on the car because it's worth about

$23,000 okay and I was wondering I could

pay it off by May or I could sell it and

be debt free as soon as I get the

settlement um what would your decision

be because I know Dave always says if

you can pay it off within two years and you love the car you can keep it fight for it yeah um how much are you how much

do you make a year uh 108,000 oh yeah

yeah I would I would keep it you're fine

I think the numbers are fine yeah I think you can pay it off even sooner honestly pton yeah I mean you'll have the 8K in cash to dump at it that's

great cuz did yeah that's what I

do okay I don't know if it' change

anything I have a old beater jeep that

is worth maybe $1,000 doll but take me

three to $4,000 to get it daily

drivable um would you still just uh keep

the car and just paid off by May or

sooner I think that part's up to you at

that point if I that I I you honestly I think that's

totally up to you it depends like obviously the I'm guessing the Jeep is not as in as good a shape as a $30,000

car but it really just depends on the

picture of your life that you want going

forward either either either way is fine

all right yeah yeah you're gonna get it paid off the the numbers aren't so lopsided that we're like oh my gosh get this car out of here pton you know because you're a yeah you're able to pay it off within six months which is amazing uh but if you're not attached to

the car and Payton we get a lot of people on this show and they're like get me out as soon as possible I'll throw

two grand at this Jeep get it fixed up

and I'm great driving it around and I'm happy and it's awesome if that's what

you want to do do that and be out of Deb

yeah you know in four weeks after you

fix the Jeep you can do that but also

that this car payment or this car loan is not absolutely going to kill you you you make great money you're going to be able to pay it off and you'll be completely debt free after that uh which

is just well on your way so yep I'm I'm with Jade that one that one's in your court Payton but uh thanks for the call

appreciate it this is the ramsy

[Music]

show [Music]

our scripture of the day comes from

Ecclesiastes 712 the protection of wisdom is like the

protection of money and the advantage of

knowledge is that wisdom preserves the

life of him who has

it have a tongue twister there Jade yeah

to repeat I'm going to have to marinate on that one and Frank said people can

tell you to keep your mouth shut but

that doesn't stop you from having your own opinion okay I like that great so

good all right up next we have uh Paige

in North Dakota hey Paige welcome to the

show hello uh my question is or I guess

uh my husband does doesn't want to try

and budget every time I bring it up it's

this big fight about who spends most

money on the most worthless things and I

don't know how

to handle that it's beyond that it's the

tip for Tat game you did this well I did

that when you do this so how are when

when these conversations come up let's

kind of retro back a little bit when

these conversations have come up have

they come up in the heat of the moment or has it been like hey honey or hey boo

whatever you call your spouse I want to sit down and talk here's what I'd like

to talk about you know um is it that

sort of thing or is it just like this is

happening out of the heat of a moment of somebody opening up a bill for

something I I wouldn't say it's nor like

the key to the moment but it's always like when we go paycheck to paycheck

week after week you always scraping the barrel and then I'm like hey can we try

this and then he like gets super mad

about it and then it's just paycheck to

paycheck it's the same thing you just

want to break that cycle um yeah part of

it I think I think part of it how you approach it I think that if instead of

uh attacking the conversation as we need

to stop doing this you know we're just living paycheck to paycheck you know we've got to start getting on a budget I think if you kind of approach it in the way of um I'm really I'm really worried

and I'm really scared and I've just been noticing like my anxiety is going nuts and I think it's because we're overspending I think it's because we are

not on the same page and I'd really like to be on the same page what does that look like to you like I'd kind of throw the ball on their CT of like what do you

think that looks like and that way it's

not you saying not necessarily coming in

saying this is what we need to be doing but just opening up that conversation have you tried that I have tried that and I've

suggested few different things like hey

we put Wolford paychecks into the joint

account for bills and such you can put x

amount I use like $300 for an example

into your own personal account to spend it on what you want you know gas station

whatever and then once you go past that

you can't dip into the

uh yeah okay so page already can I say

this already it's becoming a page is

telling what's your husband's name or if you don't want to say well Bob Bob we'll

come Bob okay

okay uh it's already you almost in a

maternal role of okay we're going to put

your money here and you can't do this and this this this it it is still this

hierarchy of you being the kind of

authority in a sense and so the goal

would be just to paint you a picture is

that you are both a team you both are

equal in this he has as much say in this

as you do you have as much say as he

does and it's you guys together saying

oh yeah this and this and this and this versus one telling one what to do if

that makes sense and so um yeah no that

makes sense yeah and I would say this too with an aster there's naturally always going to be more of the nerd and there's naturally always going to be the free spirit so like Winston forever will

love Excel and love the budget and love

painting out what investments of this

this this more than me which is funny because this is my job and this is like what I do every day but he actually is more of the numbers and thrives on that

and more of the saver than I am so he

won't change who I am but the way we

approach our money together can still be

as a team so always know that you still will have your own personalities he may never just love the budget like Paige

does and that's okay but as long as

you're both in it together that's going to be the goal so I would want to know

do do you do you know his hesitation

what what it is that he kind of pushes

back against and why or why he pushes

back against us I think he likes to kind of be in

control a little bit um I know he's

always brought back that before we even got together I had no problem you know

with my money but so he's trying to kind of make it you're the blame kids are the

blame but live or like our lives have

changed since we met you know sure we

live in a different place and things are

more expensive and to kids to do through

daycare and yep so I would ask then back

just to keep the conversation going I think Jade's Point's really good is like I want to hear from him and so like okay

so you're saying that before all of this

you were you know you you didn't have money problems which to a degree duh

because you didn't have all these expenses right that's what we're all thinking but also what what were what

did you have in place that worked really well because he may have his own way of

doing stuff that you know you don't see

uh that maybe you actually could Implement and so I think again it's going back to to this like it's this team mentality which I know is so easier

said than done page cuz we're about to get off the air here in 5 minutes and and go home and I know you're the one that's having to have these conversations but as much as you guys

can sit down and say gosh I feel like this is pinning us against each other

and we can't be against each other like

we are in this together and we both want to win like like no one wants to choose to have a stressful anxious life and

marriage and so and no one's trying to

say whose fault it is like if you and

Bob can both agree this the problem is

it's us it's us like we're we're

paycheck to paycheck both of us don't like that both of us would love to get

to a point where we've got savings and you know we we're out of debt like if

you guys can surround that and like lock

arms around that and that's where you're

going to move forward yeah and sometimes Paige especially with guys that's kind of a stereotype so it may not be true for him but I have found like when you can put numbers and actual facts instead

of just ideas and theories of cutting

back and all this when you actually see numbers down sometimes it helps because

you can actually blame the numbers instead of blaming each other and so I

would just say hey one night like after

dinner can we please will you and just

ask them can you will you just give me an hour and I want to pull out the bills

and I just want to look and like what if I just want to and help me do it right bring him in that you're Paige isn't bringing everything and Paige isn't telling what the numbers are together

we're having a conversation so will you

just sit down because I want to know like okay are you spinning on gas and you guys just make this puzzle and lay

out the numbers and kind of just do a mock budget together again try I don't

want it to be conflict filled or tension filled this is just bringing numbers to the table uh and let that be a starting

point because I think sometimes in our

heads things can be magnified in our

heads things can be isolating there's so much that if we just keep up in our head

and in our mind it just can go sideways

and when things are down and you're looking at actual facts and looking at actual numbers sometimes not always but

sometimes that kind of like diffuses the

tension um because you see that and then

from there you know look at the Tactical

and then also it's if it's going well that night or maybe it's another night dream and just say hey what would it

look like in five years what does our life look like how old are our kids what grade are they going to be in where do we want to be like just start to like have this vision of where you guys want to be as a family and there's something about being proactive in that that is so

inspired ing than just living life paycheck to paycheck month to month and you look up and it's been 5 years and you don't know where you know you don't know where you're going and so having

that I think is really key too Paige but just know you're not alone in this this is one of the biggest problems we hear from people is that one spouse is on

board and wants to do this and another isn't so you're not alone in it and also

we've heard so many couples on our debt free stage say gosh I wasn't on board I

thought y'all were crazy and and then finally we all I got on board and together we did this so even couples who

win start out where you guys are so have hope page that this can change it it

really can but I think it's really the way you approach don't be the mom definitely don't be the mom have a humble Spirit about it um but bring you

know this conversation it's a

conversation to be had it's not pointing fingers and and blame even this picture

of put the numbers out in front of you and like lock arms and like it's us

against you numbers like you know what I mean it's not us against each other so

it's good uh it's powerful page that's a

it's a big part of winning is you and your spouse and just for the sake of your marriage not just your money for the sake of your marriage I pray that um

that this brings you guys together so thanks for the call Jade thanks for a

great show today it was good always fun

always fun thanks to the guys in the boots make it happen thanks to the audience that came out today to Nashville to watch the show live we

appreciate you guys and we appreciate you America for listening this is the

ramsy

show hey it's Rachel Cruz if you like

what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps go to ramsy

solutions.com and click the get started

button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your

specific situation that's ramsy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 184. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for January 1, 2024)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:19:36 |

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[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm Ramsey personality George camel joined by my good friend Dr John deloney who's having a spectacular week by the way congrats on your book launch John very exciting building a non-anxious life is now in the hands of

dare I say dozens Millions different answers dozens and dozens well if you're watching on YouTube you'll notice I'm sporting a deloney shirt that we just got in this is not merch you can buy a bunch of people put yeah they they printed up uh my manager print up a whole bunch of them John's mom decided to just make some merch to make him feel better that's right

but it's fun so in honor of Dr John delon's book launch I'm wearing a deloney shirt I expect you to wear a campel shirt during my book launch a camel tattooed on my chest for sure little aggressive but I like the spirit behind it we're going to make it happen man no thanks I'm excited to have it out in the world man well hey we are taking your calls today about money relationships anxiety how it's all interconnected

so give us a call 8825 5225 is the number to call and

Adrien kicks us off in Miami Florida Adrian welcome to Miami what's up how's it going hey hey guys how are you guys doing today pretty well how how are you doing how can we help better than I deserve um so I my wife and I are um in

baby step number two right now um we have about $6,600 uh left in credit card debts but

uh we should be paying that off in the next couple of months here um and uh

another portion of our debt is a car lease um that we got into three years ago and U that car lease will be up in June of next year um and and I we just

want to know um should we try to get out of that lease um as soon as possible or

uh wait the the eight months and um turn

in the car and then save up in these next eight months to buy a car cash that's a common conundrum when you figure out dude we got fleeced on this thing how do we get out there's a few ways out of this thing the most common one is to find out the early bu out amount do you know what that number is um yeah so I would have to come up

with um about

$4,000 um because uh the the value of

the car right now doesn't match what it's it's worth it's depreciated further than what you owe on it yes welcome to I

cars are the stupidest things we buy okay so you're four grand underwater on this how much money do you guys have in the bank um well right now um to cover our

bases I mean we have our $1,000 uh emergency fund okay and then everything else are kind of throwing uh towards our debt and what could you sell this car

for um right now blue Kelly Blue Book is

uh showing um 32,000 okay that's not bad so if you own

this thing you could go sell it for 32k and based on what you owe on it would that give you enough to buy a car um something cheap and

used yeah so if if we sell for 32 um we

would still need to pay um the lease company on an additional $4,000 which is

um I guess the remainder of those uh uh

payments that we owe them for using the car okay so how quickly could you save up four grand um uh

if we could probably save up four grand in about four months four or five months okay but that would leave us with nothing left to purchase a car cash so we would kind of be you know in the that get you to Net Zero yes so I'm gonna ask a Adrian I'm

gonna ask George a question on your behalf is that cool yeah that's fine so

George he owes $32,000 on this deal and

there is a walkway Point coming up but he owes 32,000 on this thing if he owned

the car and was trying to get out of the debt we would tell him hey go over to a credit union take out this the $44,000 loan and you just drop your total debt

32 to four essentially and so go go to a Credit Unit take out a $7,000 loan buy a $3,000 car get out of this thing and be done does that does that apply for a lease whatever would get you out of this pickle of O if you owe the four grand you can get a personal loan for that much from the credit union it would get you out of this a lot faster than four months Adrian I'm wondering if you don't go get a $7,000 loan at a credit union

get rid of this car buy a $3,000 car you

and I both know it's going to be a dramatic shift in how you roll down the street right you're going to have to tint those windows so people can't see you um but um you are instantly going

from owing $34,000 to 7,000 bucks you

cut your debt significantly by doing

that what's your lease payment uh right now it's uh 520 ouch

for how much longer um eight months and the thing is

it's it's my wife's car and we just have had a baby so she doesn't feel too comfortable getting into a $3,000 car don't care at all don't care at all don't care at all don't you're talking to the wrong two guys about that because we both have kids and it just doesn't matter like it

Comfort at this point is she rather y'all y'all walk into a house every day that's electric because y'all can't breathe right what do you drive yeah what do you drive uh yeah I drive a 2013 Kia that's

paid off and it has $ 200,000 200,000

miles on it okay you're already rolling with that $3,000 car cool could she drive that and you drive the beater I mean that's that's pretty beater George well for three grand you're not getting much you'll be lucky to get a 203 Kia with 200,000 M on it for three grand in this economy so I'd start your research and see your options but I don't know that I'd stick

this out until June of 2024 keep making these payments that sounds miserable I want to get out fast and $3,000 may be that may be me being obnoxious but honestly man this like

well she doesn't feel comfortable that's what got y'all in this mess yeah and I put the kid my kids in a

in a 1993 F-150 that didn't work too

great and everybody did fine I put my kids in the back of a Corolla that was

golly I just wanted it to die and it would never die cuz Corollas never die but they did fine was it comfortable

no did I have to get all weird angles to get the car seat out yes did I have anybody any money on that car absolutely not so Adrian you got to make a choice of what sacrifices you guys are willing to make and I'm not saying put your children in danger but you also have to not have the spectrum of either we're going to kill our children driving a beater car or going to stay in debt forever there's more options than that

and so I think you need to talk to your wife and you both have to agree on here's the game plan here's what we decided on it's for a temporary time we're going to be out of this soon we're going to upgrade the car and probably within a year right yeah yeah take um uh yeah you know

we make a a pretty decent income um so

uh about 140 you make 140 I think you can scrape together four grand Adrian in less than four months I'm thinking one month a no do a no spend month we covered only the basic bills minimum payments the rest goes towards getting out of this deep deep car hole we've got ourselves no eating out no buying any clothes nothing nothing nothing no Miami lifestyle that you've been leading yeah we'll get back to it soon enough my friend thanks for the call this is the ramsy [Music]

show [Music]

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[Music]

more

[Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George Cel joined by my friend Dr John deloney and we are here for you America taking your calls atle 8825 5225 if you've got that burning

question a conundrum a Crossroads you need some validation confirmation we are here for youle 8825 5225 Sierra joins us

up next in Cincinnati Sierra welcome to the show hey George and John how are you guys doing well how are you I'm doing good I'm doing good um so I have a little bit

of an interesting situation and I'm sure there are other people out in the world that are in this in a similar boat but I

am looking for advice on my situation um

so two years ago my father passed away

and um I bought his house um or I I did

a cash out refinance and put it in my name in order for it to be um to prevent

it from being foreclosed on um I don't

live in the house currently I haven't for years but my sister at the time when my father passed away lived with him he

was supporting her um and her kids until

the the kids got into um school age and

then they made an agreement to where once once they go to school she would start working and helping like help to pay the bills okay well neither of us expected him to pass away so now we're

in the situation where she had no job

and you know the house was being foreclosed on fast forward to now I now own the house 100% in my name and she is

working now however her her income is so

low to the point where she couldn't she cannot afford the mortgage payment by herself so currently am paying the

majority of the mortgage um she is paying me what she can to get by because

she's also taking care of kids um but I'm married I just got married and I bought the house right before um we got

married and so now it's me and my husband and I'm trying my best to figure out a plan a plan for the future to figure out how this can continue but not

be such a a big burden financial burden on us because we are trying our best to

get our debts paid we're we're following the budget we're on baby step too pretty

much um and you guys are renting right now we are renting right now in a different city but you have a mortgage on this home that you own in a different city your sister's still there with the kids and you're losing money every month

just trying to cover the mortgage for her yeah it feels like we're losing money because every um every extra dollar that could go to our debt is going to this mortgage well you're not in a place to be charitable in this way and let your sister live there for free yeah she's not she's she we've I

got a renters agreement um written up by a lawyer um she's signed it she's paying me x amount of dollars um so what would Market rent be for this place um if she moved out you get a rent her what do they pay for rent I would suspect and I'm not too familiar with housing market but I would suspect I could at least get 1,500 a month for it and what's the mortgage the mortgage um I did a Cash out refinance so I owe 119 on it but it

uh it appraised for 155 but since then

I've put about $20,000 in renovations so what's the monthly mortgage payment

969 okay and what's she able to pay every month she pays me $400 a month

let me ask a hard hard seemingly insensitive question okay um

okay how long has she been in this financial predicament um she it's been a couple

well back when my dad and her made an agreement that she she was working and then but she was having a hard time finding child care she's a single mom of two um so he told her that he would help

support her um while until the kids were

in school age right um so then she had

quit her job of five years um and really

was kind of depending on him um until he

passed away right and so you're doing a noble thing you're trying to keep going the agreement that he made with her yeah but what we have here is your dad trying to help you trying to help

mhm and we have somebody on the other end of this help not realizing the full sense of their predicament yeah and she's had a couple

of years is that easy no I've sat with

with with moms who lost everything like it's devastating and yeah it's her

responsibility to either come up with the ability to pay for $120,000 house which in this market in

this planet is unheard of right now I

won't say this planet in the United States it is um to figure out a way to

cover that or to figure out something

else but yeah I and I I know that sounds

heartless and I'm might I don't want to I don't want to beat up on single moms or anything like that right but here's what you're doing you're slowly

inching Inch by Inch by

Inch to exhaling really deeply every

time that phone rings and it's her on it m and you go or every time she says Hey the air conditioner is not working you go what that is is slowly inching

towards resenting your sister resenting

the fact that your dad made this deal and she doesn't deserve that your dad's memory doesn't deserve that and it's going to come down to not your help but because you wouldn't draw boundaries and say Hey you have to be the chief bread winner for you and your kids mhm and

that's your boundary to draw absolutely and I agree with you me

and her we've had our differences and we've had really hard tough conversations because I have set boundaries and I've kind of you know I used to pay her Wi-Fi and I used PID this and that and now it's just like I'm only going to help you with the Necessities you know and until only

until you can get to a point where you can cover all of this but I'm fearful with her job that she's never going to be able to afford that mortgage that's but that's a choice that she is making not you she has CH chosen that job and

yeah if you don't give her a deadline she'll never get there yeah I think

that's the next step is we have an exit strategy because guess what if you didn't own this house what would she be doing she wouldn't be able to afford rent anywhere or she would have gotten another job and figured it out exactly and we need to help her kindly to step

into that where we go all right how do we get you a different job where you could support paying rent Market rent in your area and if you can't afford it we might need to move we have to start dealing with these adult decisions but I think what we can't do is continue to coddle her and enable her and just support her at our own Financial destitute

I mean you guys have your own goals struggling you're broke yeah say this way you're broke you're not in a position to help and that sounds cruel and mean yeah yeah it it's almost kind of

scary because you know mine and my husband's like our household income is I mean to the outside world is pretty good but it almost feels like I we have no money in our account because I've either spent it all on remodeling the house or

it's going to I think we stop sinking money into this house I would sell this house and that might be the way to get hey months we're selling This months it's sold and I'll sell it to you if you have a job that you can afford it yeah a part of me one wants to do

that but another part of me just thinks that like you know this house my we came

up from nothing you know my parents were really poor I know but listen to me listen to me listen to me listen to me you're gonna you both still have nothing I need you to hear me say that

y'all have these assets that neither of y'all can afford the way you're you've managed it right now and I didn't come from a lot my dad

was a policeman and then he became a minister and I saw what the public

thought of public servants and so I promised I would never do that I was going to go make a bunch of money and you know what I did cuz I didn't Li I didn't change the way I lived I didn't change my money principles I ended up in way more debt than my dad could have ever been in I ended up broker than he did it's not about

we come from nothing and pulled ourselves up yall got to make some hard decisions about your financial situation I think you have to draw some boundaries with her and can strongly consider selling this house and I know it's got memories but right now those memories are dragging both of y'all [Music]

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Ramsey [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney open phones at aa825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life your money your relationships your mental health all of it right here in front of you on the Ramy show today's question of the day is sponsored by neighborly your hub for Home Services now you can find expert local help schedule appointments and get special offers exclusively in the neighborly app so go download the neighborly app now to start getting home repairs maintenance or improvements done all right today's question comes from Jason and South Carolina and it actually came in last week um before there was a Kick the Can

on the road um moment in the government

um but it said with the impending government shutdown how do I as a government employee combat the stress

and anxiety of possibly not getting paid but still being required to show up for

work is that how that works yeah well there's back pay so once they're back they get the money but while you're there it's not happening which means they're missing some paychecks I've got my own thoughts on that I'm the Sole Provider my third daughter will be here in November we have no savings and are in some debt all right so I'm G to answer this George globally because it's super frustrating for me if I had let's say um we had I want

to put something into context for everybody okay so when covid happened

and we were told you cannot go into the

office Dave and the operating board

called that emergency meeting if you remember that and Dave said we have this much money in the account this is how much cash this company has on hand and we are a cash only company this is how much we got this is how much cash it takes to operate and so you can see it's

going to get real tight real fast here is how things will go number one if it get super tight I will not take a check me the CEO and owner of this place number two the operating board will not take a check number three we will go into the next run of Vice Presidents will not take a check number four we may have to look into like so he laid out the map but in so doing he announced to

the whole company a transparently here's what we got this is on everybody on the same page here but I go first I'm the

leader I go first when times are good I

win big when times are bad I go first number two the next round of leadership go goes second the next run of leadership goes third and to leaders if y'all don't want to be a part of that bye Felicia there's the door right but here's how we're going to do this so ju supposed that with a group of

senators who are sitting I just have

this picture George of them in a kitty pool that they got at Walmart for $5 and it's full of like bubbles and they're throwing like Balloons with no no water

in them just like balloons at each other it's a great mental picture thank you for that if it shuts down they still get

paid who doesn't get paid are these

employees who have kids trying to make it so they're using these government

workers who keep this thing going for all of us as fodder for their little

temper tanty games that they're trying to play for an election coming up in in a year and it's so

disgusting how they use people like Jason as f for their little their little

future reelection campaign just pawns this right awful game of chess and so Jason if I worked for a guy if I had gone to that meeting and Dave had said listen here I'm getting mine if we shut

down if this shutdown actually happens I'm getting paid my exx are getting paid

the rest of y'all we're going to cut the low the the if the first in first out whoever the last 100 employees are y'all are fired after that I'm going to start taking 20% from everybody's paychecks right which happens across the country I literally would go to my wife and say we're out of here I don't trust that person as a leader as a person of Integrity as a stable operating leader

for the place that I that pays my family's rent right and Jason a I want

to challenge you to begin to broaden your Horizon and look bigger than this particular job because you work for people who will use you for their own political gain and it cost them literally nothing because they will still get paid the Senators doing this crap

playing tag with each other and then here's what's gonna happen George gonna play tag they're goingon to play tag they're gonna play tag and then something's going to set off and I hate it but Jason out explore something

bigger and then that so that's that's the big 30,000 foot view the reality is the anxiety and stress is the alarm

system going off we may not have enough money next month because our bosses are acting like children and they won't actually sit down and solve problems they just want sound bites for their Twitter account okay I'm going to always

go towards the alarm directly into it

what does this mean George tell me if I'm crazy this might mean I got to go to work until I find some other job that will pay me when I go every day instead of one that's going to give me back pay if they ever reopen and then you're going to have to deliver pizzas at night to pay the rent and you're GNA have to get up in

the morning and drive Uber on your way to your job that you're not getting paid for and then you're going to have to deliver pizza you're going have to figure out a way to get money and there I wish there was another option to that you can go borrow money and then you're going to you're going to trap yourself in a continued cycle of debt and false

security and whatever you're just going to have to figure out a way to work on Saturdays and Sundays and it's going to suck but that's the real that's the reality you face right yeah and what this is he's in baby step two he's got a baby on the way in November a third daughter and there's this impending shutdown so we call this storm or stor mode and it's

the only time to pause baby step to P off debt and just stack cash just keep your minimum payments everything else stack as much cash as possible until you're out of the storm until mom and baby are home until we know what the heck is happening with this government and so that might be 45 days that sounds like about right if you wait just month and a half get a side job keep working stack all those uh into savings

then once the dust settles we can move forward with the debt payoff that's what I would do that would help me with my anxiety and stress is some of the reality pieces of it so and so let's

let's let's say out loud what our fearless leaders are asking their government employees to do because they've only duct tape this thing together for 45 days Jason I hate to

tell you this but I think today after

work you should stop by a local pizza delivery place or get online and get signed up for what's some food delivery service Uber eat door Dash inart Amazon Flex go through that as quickly as possible or possibly call Walmart and go

visit a Walmart in your suit and tie and go in there and say hey can I sling boxes from 400 p.m. until 11:00 p.m. and

for the next 45 days I want you to stack cash and want you look at your wife who's expecting third baby and say hey we can't go out to eat because the people running our country are so um uninterested in solving some of these problems they're more interested in throwing crayons at each other um but we got a my job as as a responsible adult is to make sure we have food and shelter so let's go ahead and do that and George

just infuriates me because we watch the

news we watch these sound bites we see these big things like oh my gosh this and this and this side said that and that side that said that and Jason who's got a third baby on the way is the guy who's at home and his wife who's on the other end of this other end of this pingpong match between children who can't figure it out it just it's

so infuriating with me man it just it's disgusting at every single level on both sides of the aisle everybody involved in this thing just solve these problems and let's figure something out like adults and move on 100% well you through this

in your book building a non-anxious life six daily choices this is George keeping me from getting I'm I wish Jason we had your info we'd send you a book reach out to us we'll send you a copy of John's new book but go there's there are a lot of things you can do other than vent on Twitter or X or whatever it is and John will show

you how to recognize and break free from a life spinning out of control from chronic stress burnout anxiety and there's a thousand reasons to feel all those things right now but there's six choices you can make every day to combat that and John unpacks that in his new new book building a non-anxious life you can grab a copy today it's out in stores online in the world

and we love to see it can't wait to see what kind of life change happens from this book John go get your copy ramsy solutions.com we'll

be right back with more of the Ramsey

[Music]

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information

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this is the Ramy show if you're a new listener and you want to dive deeper into some of the lingo we use on the show The Baby Steps All That Jazz you can go to Ramsey solutions.com and click on the get started button and we've got a great little tool to help you figure out the next best step for your financial Journey based on where you're at today that's ramsy solutions.com and click on get started Mary joins us up

next in Knoxville Mary welcome to the Ramsey Show hi it's so crazy to be talking to you how are you it's crazy to be talking to Mary and Knoxville was just thinking the same thing how are you that's crazy

made it I'm good I know what's your question today uh my

question I have a $5,000 bonus for work

can com up in January um I think that we

I should put it towards my retirement um but my husband thinks that we're already putting too much into retirement and that we should save it towards our house fund o I think option three George just had a

baby and they are strapped for cash we'll do a GoFundMe yes okay so this is exciting so you've got a Bonus coming in January and you do

you feel like you're overfunding retirement I don't feel like we can overfund retirement because we're young and so we can calm down when we're older and so I feel like we can just go hard when we're young you know okay so you guys have no debt you have an emergency fund and you're investing 15% already um we're investing 22% whoa but

you still have a mortgage no no no no to I'm sorry for a

down payment oh so you don't you're

renting yeah okay you're renting but you're also investing 22% but you're also trying to save for down payment that sounds like a lot of things at once to feel any progress well it I mean we're have a decent amount of progress I mean we have like 150,000 save for a down payment wow

so what's stopping you from putting that money down and buying a house well we got married two months ago

so there it is it's just like this is all figuring things out how old are you to yeah I'm 24 and 25 wow that's incredible

okay so here's the deal you guys are in baby step 3B sl4 that's kind of down

payment investing and if you're following the baby steps you would be investing 15% and you could be saving for the down payment now some people like to hunker down and invest nothing to save up even more for the down payment faster you guys already have a giant stash I would continue investing 15% let's dial that back down which would give you 7% of your income back to throw at a down payment correct M

so what if we kept doing that when is your lease up with this uh rental situation uh July okay so what if we

started house hunting early this you know spring summer and we added the 5,000 to you said the bonus is coming in January so you'll have 5,000 there yeah add that to the savings and then we put a giant down payment down on this house because the goal would be let's pay off the house before we crank up investing because to your point you guys have another 35 working years to continue

investing you're going to be multi multi-millionaires so the real question is why is your husband fearful of not having enough because if youve has he crunched the calculators on this I'm guessing he has what do you an investment calculator take what you have in retirement now take what you're investing every month calculate hey by 60 years old we're probably going to have north of $67 million well

I think well I think I'm the one for one thing who's worried about not having but also after we have kids I plan on stop working being a stay home mom and so just trying to set us ourselves up best I think for that situation okay well that would mean we need to get his income up and our expenses down to where we can make that work

because the retirement that won't really be a factor you're not going to be able to dip into that when you're you know 38 years old so I would be focused right now on putting as much of a down payment down to get your mortgage as low as possible which would allow you to stay home because that's a monthly expense until it's paid off yeah that makes total sense

so uh I

I guess I'm on your team of let's put this toward the down payment and let's get this uh house sooner rather than later okay I mean you guys are ready you have an awesome down payment so proud of you guys congrats on uh getting married very exciting times you know what I know you're off the line now Mary but I'm going to send you one year Financial Peace University

and a year the premium version of every dollar to get you guys started I think that will align you and get you on the same page which will be fun can they at least go to dinner I think dinner would be helpful to talk about this everything's better over good food so take that $5,000 and go to a really nice like bonusy dinner and talk

about yeah like that I'm excited for you congrats all right let's get to denell

in Sacramento denell welcome to the show Hi how are you guys doing great how are you I'm doing very well thank you um

so my question today um we are on baby step two working toward paying off our debt and um we we're able to free up um

about $55,000 to put towards some debt but of course as it goes um now we have a water heater out that we're going to have to pay for OU so I haven't yeah I

haven't used that money towards the debt yet um it happened within the same day or so that we were able to get it and um

our house we do have home warranty I'm not quite sure what that's going to pay for yet um and then we also um had a

quote for about $5,000 which is about the money we had so I don't know if this is a silly question or not but um should

I put that money towards the debt and wait and to see how much the water hey is going to cost we do have the, saved in our emergency fund um and hope that

the home warranty covers it or wait to pay off that debt until we find out how much it's going to cost well this time frame is are we talking a week or two to find out uh the plumber that came out said it could take six to 10 days the home warranty people tend to be slow so um

even now we have no hot water they don't care about that gosh it's awful yeah so

we're um we're just waiting around uh we are reaching out to the I would be calling them so often that they are like okay here's your answer yeah um and I take cold shower so

I'd be fine loves it his family hates him but he loves it yeah of course this

happens when the weather starts cooling down I would have been fine with it summer but uh sure well I would I would

hang tight I mean if we're talking six business days what I don't want you to do is you throw the five granded debt and now we know this storm is upon us and then we have to go into debt to cover this hot water heater that would be a bad plan so if we're talking waiting a week to see how this shakes down to see if the warranty is going to cover

it which I hope it does I would fight them tooth and nail cuz you know their job is to make sure they don't pay for it and so I would be looking at that fine print fighting them and getting this thing covered because that is time well spent if it means $5,000 for an hour of your time yeah I guess I'm just I'm curious because if I

if we didn't happen to have this chunk of money that we are blessed

to have right at this moment we would have only had that $1,000 to throw out this and I don't know what we would have done otherwise oh that's true and a lot of people have that hangup with baby step one with a th000 bucks they go hey what if there's an emergency over a th000 well there's a thing you do where you pause the baby steps we're going to stack up cash as fast as possible we're going to sell stuff we're going to get

the side job whatever we have to do to come up with that amount of money and those future paychecks are going to be enough to cover it and that's what happens uh often but what you also you also have to understand the the plumber the plumber is only used to dealing with

people with credit cards and so he's going to look at you and say this is a terrible decision to F to fix this to repair this it doesn't have much time left let's just replace it and you have to change your mindset to we don't have any other money so I want to fix it well I can try to fix it

but it's going to be great because that's all I have right now is $1,000 and so often it's like well I got

to replace it because the plumber said well I'm going to find me a plumber that will come fix this thing whether they duct tape it together as long as my house is safe until I can like Georgia said I'm going to scratch and Claw and sell and do whatever I have to do deliver pizzas and I'm going to hate every second of it but I'm doing it for hot water right

and then at the end of the month I'm going to figure figure this thing out or the end of two months or whatever it's going take so be sure to shop around negotiate tell them hey do you have a cash discount hey I'll leave you a great review in the neighborhood Facebook group if you can bring the price down and if you work that kind of magic

and you're not too desperate which I know it's hard not to be in times like this then uh we'll get through this but I'm glad if they know how to install one right um I could put some we could put a message up here and somebody in this building knows how to do it right 100% figure it out yeah we're wishing you the best andell thank you

so much for the call and uh best of luck with that debt payoff and the water heater that puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books I'm George camel he's Dr John deloney we'll be back before you know [Music]

it hey George camel here if you love the show and you want a deeper dive on your money Journey we've got a Weekly Newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the Ramy way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for the newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George Campbell joined by Dr John deloney this hour this is your show America so call in at aa825 5225 and I'm in an incredibly good mood today because I'm wearing my deloney shirt in honor of Dr John delon's book launch week month if year it feels like

you're one of those girls who's like it's my birthday month and I'm like that's not a thing you get one day it's my book day but this entire last month has felt like I feel like your book coming out I've heard more about your book Drama than mine drama yes I didn't

know about the drama do you like this color what's the right color what do you think about the backside what about this I I don't know about the like the amount of decisions that go into making a book it's unbelievable so and the amount of second guessing you put on decisions that you've already made is is pretty amazing but now you know what it's like to walk through

the world feel like delone feels good doesn't it well I feel insecure you feel insecure I don't know if it's the shirt I feel exposed and both powerful and insecure I think I think the exposure part is um that's a big piece's really a short sleeve kind of guy but but I think you uh both I don't have the muscle mass both insecure and uh feel powerful now

you know how I feel that's the deloney way well hey we are here for you America and Eric is here in Witchita on the line Eric what's going on hey how's it going going guys doing well how are you good good I have a

quick question so uh my wife and I my

beautiful wife and I have been uh it's a great caveat hey here's what I guarantee he's about to do he's about to say he thinks something and she thinks different am I right and you think she's wrong absolutely yes yes you're right and I think she's listening so I'm I'm so guys say my beautiful wife and women say my amazing husband when they're about to say and

I think they're an idiot the other person's an idiot so go ahead tell us how your beautiful wife may be an idiot Eric all right you said it not me but uh

smart man we had um we've been doing the

steps and we are now down to just my

student loans which is about $9,000 left

um and she has an opinion that we should

not pay the student loans and we should just start saving that do the three to six months of of expenses because there

is um a very high chance that her car is

going to go out within the next year or

so uh and we don't we just have a, of

emergencies so I don't know um what you guys think about that should we just tackle the how much money do you have in

the bank uh probably about we have about

3,500 bucks okay so you got a little more than that baby step one emergency fund and what's your income uh 150 a year oh my gosh so these

student loans are paid off within a few months Max the the student loans we if

we really buckle down we could we could do it within three to four months I think three months so 90 days from now the student loans are gone you said her car could die within a year El

could we're going to have a presid presidential election you know what that means it's all going down Russia could invade and after that a meteorite could come and after that yeah can her car not also be repaired I mean it's it's pretty old this is 2006 um and she I mean she'll

drive it until it doesn't go anymore that's the type of woman she is but uh I

think we use if she's that scared she should use that fire to fuel the debt-free journey to go we got to get out of debt fast we get the emergency fund fast then we got to start the car save fun fast because I know this thing's going to be dead in a year versus leap progging you said hey we're doing these steps well the steps are in order for a reason

they work and if you try to do multiple at once it doesn't work it let's be honest though I get how how much debt have y'all paid

off uh we we owned a business uh so it

was it's been about it was about 35,000 uh but I sold my business as as

well so that actually helped us a lot okay I sold I sold my business and then uh uh paid everything else off how long have y'all been chipping away at this uh about well um really about three years

okay because our business was kind of going downhill and so I I remember I

remember like year two year three Mark we've been hammering away and hammering away and hammering away at this and felt like I should get my new car

now and then my wife and I were just at

Zero right we just we did all that work to just get to zero and now you're telling me I got to go two more years and save up to buy the car that I want which is a used car by the way so I get

her looking down the barrel of are you serious right now like we have nine we're going to go crazy and get this thing done in 90 days and then we start the savings thing all over again from my car is this just our life and so I think

there's some truth to just sitting and going yeah that does stink man we worked really hard for three and a half years we've grind and we scratched and clawed and we paid everything off and now we got to scratch and Claw again to save up to buy you new car right that is hard and that's

reality Eric what is y'all's take-home pay is it about nine grand uh it's nine grand yeah she yeah I

make uh 60,000 and she makes and we're

not investing right now for paying off debt right right okay so making 9 Grand a month can you find 4,500 bucks can you take half of that and throw it at the debt and be done in two months if you buckle

down we could I would have to look at it again but but think about that then in

two months you free up 4,500 bucks you were throwing at it plus that student loan payment that means 9 months from then you'd have 40 Grand Grand saved you'd have your emergency fund plus enough to get an upgrade for the car right so that I mean we're talking less than 12 months from now and so if you start to paint that picture and go hey honey I hear

you I'm not trying to be combative here I'm just saying look at these numbers we can do this and do it quickly if we buckle down do you have something you could put on the table I'm not going to go out to eat for lunch with my workmates for a month I'm gonna make lunch yeah I mean I could I could do that I'm just wondering if there's something

you could put on the table that says hey I'm in I'm all in she serious all all in I want these student loans gone out of my life here George and I say it's ludicrous to not pay student loans and start saving up for a car for another car that might die in a year that's Madness you've got debt staring you right in the face pay it off get rid of that stuff um

but man I I

think the conversation about okay here's instead of presenting the all right we're gonna we're just gonna go crazy for 90 more days I love George's plan like let's let's sit down and come up with a 12-month plan here's how this works if I buckle down I'm gonna make this commitment because I know you're going to need a car but I got to get these student loans out of our house

we have to get these student loans out of here let's make a plan and then in 12 months we're going to look up and we're going to have emergency fund and you're going to have a new car yeah or maybe not a new car but a used new car A new to you car right right it's that simple

and it's that hard Eric I wish it was a

shortcut yeah math and reality are no f sometimes sometimes they're awesome but we feel like funy duddies over here being like you got to just pay but that's how it works and it's worked for so many people we believe in it that much we're that confident in this plan you got to do it in order with intensity that's the only way it works thanks so much for the call Eric this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show

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budget

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel co-host of course of this show but also of smart money happy hour with my friend Rachel Cruz and the George camel YouTube channel which you can check out on the tubes and of course I'm joined by Dr John delone who's got a fantastic show that he hosts right next door to this studio called the Dr John deloney show

and you guys are crushing it over there John you just passed 200,000 subscribers on YouTube I can't catch up man you'll have me caught by the end of the month so it's a losing battle I see what you're doing there but the team's done amazing George Campbell show will pass my show and YouTube subscribers soono well you just launched this like mini documentary episode on your YouTube channel that is amazing yeah

the the the we actually they came to us and said hey we want you to follow somebody for for 90 days and let's let's call your bluff let's see if these little um steps to build CH talk about let's see if this actually works and so we put out a call and we ended up with an incredible guy who came forward and said I'm willing to do film

the whole thing and um and then his wife ends up coming along halfway through the the the the shoot but um what the film team was able to do what this guy was able to do he's just a brave dude man um and they got to see the behind the scenes me answering calls saying I was wrong me going whoa this is a big deal and this not a big deal kind of some inside baseball on how

the coaching process works but um yeah it's pretty incredible go to go to John dooney.com on no I'm sorry go to YouTube

delone and you can check it out it's an amazing um one episode series and um

it's about 28 minutes and it is well worth your time the team did an incred J show yeah they did a great job man that's the start John next up Netflix is calling you all right well John I've got an article here that it made me happy and a lot of people have sent this to me and I shouldn't be as happy as I am but there's those

I Told You So moments that I rarely get and this is one of you love those here here it is from Business Insider here's the headline 95% of the

nft market May now be worthless study finds no to which I retorted they were always worthless there was just people stupid enough to pay for them you mean

um digital clip art is now suddenly not

worth billions John it has a scientific name non-fungible token it's clip art

really fancy clip art fair point that Bill Gates gave us originally for free just for free wow through Microsoft through Microsoft clippy here's some pictures y'all can y'all can have and here we are in 2023 still talking about it uh here here's what it says are nfts dead a recent study looking at the price of thousands of collections seems to suggest the answer is yes and so here's

the report out of 73,000 nft collections the researchers looked at almost 70,000 of them and slightly over 95% had a market cap of zero which is a fancy wave

saying it's worthless so by their estimate almost 23

million people hold these worthless assets this daunting reality should serve as a sobering check on the euphoria that has often surrounded the nft space ouch and 79% of all nft

collections currently remain unsold the surplus of Supply it's digital there's not really a surplus of supply of a digital they claim you know it's it's John this is the one token but here's what nfts really are it's like a treasure map that points to the treasure that you're buying you're buying a URL link that goes to the photo you don't even own the photo John the original artist owns

the photo you own the URL that's a flex on your friends that says I'm the sole owner of this one photo that you can screenshot instantly it's that insane like we thought time shares were insane this is like a sense of ownership of a sense of ownership if you said hey um I discovered a a a pipe that I can drill down into the ground and get water

so all of us don't die I would say cool I would like to I would like to buy into that or if you said hey um I got another drill and I drill down into a reservoir of oil or I created clean energy it's going to be free for everybody so things that provide value to society say I'm going to buy that if you said hey have

I got a deal for you for $4 million I'm going to give you a picture of a link to

a digital picture that you can't really show anybody because it's like not really the thing but you just have to link to it i' be like not even a piece of art like go buy a Picasso I'm all about that hang out art up in your I've got art in my house I deeply value art support local artist but I can't have it like in my house no no no no it's it's not even that kind it's it's an nft

I would just have to say like I don't know I don't know any of the words you're saying and so for that reason I'm out oh boy well you uh

you didn't miss out John fewer than 1% have a price tag above six grand now which is a far cry from the regular million dooll deals of two years ago so much hype and here's the thing the people that were excited about it were the people selling it which I told people I said hey the people like get into nfts if you're going to make them and sell them good for

you if you want to hustle people out of a buck but also but don't buy it thinking it's an investment I'm going to resell it for profit which is the only reason people were buying them anytime somebody drums up something and

like goes a and there's not evidence you're not

like on this show you could say FPU it's an n no there's a Tracker there's 10 million people right it's not just a guy on the street corner going buy my thing it's millions of people there's a debt free screams almost every day like no no I follow the plan and my family's free anytime a group of people are like you should do it too just be weary just be weary because man dude well that's the

nail in the digital coffin John and you can buy a link if you want to see a picture of that digital coffin for the low low price of $6,000 that was or or

the market cap of zero ouch so there you

go there's my segment of I told you so thanks for that all right Ken joins us up next in Orlando Ken welcome to the show hey guys thanks for taking my call sure um my my wife and I have been listening for a long time following the steps and uh we've been lately we've been discussing baby step number six and every now and then I'll hear in the other room of the house we're debt free

so I knew I had to call you guys to really discuss um my mortgage and paying

that down okay uh because because I'm more about the investment side and she really wants to get rid of the uh the debt so just to just a brief background

we're both in our 50s I'm 54 she's 51

and I'm a physician she's an occupational therapist and we have four kids in their 18s and early 20s essentially cool I have I bought a house

um after it was in 2021

uh is $1.5 million and I was able to put

just about a million down and I took out a conventional loan at 525 525,000 at

2.5% 20-year term so there's 17 years

left and about $120,000 worth of interest on the on the

number four side of things I've been investing every month into mutual funds which has grown nicely over the years and I could afford to take out approximately

350,000 to pay off a significant amount

of that uh what's left on the mortgage um let's 17 years four what's

the balance yeah 474 th000 okay and you're saying you have non-retirement investing happening and like a brokerage account yeah okay what's in there mutually index funds about 450 to

500,000 whoa so you could pay off the house today well yeah I don't want to go down to zero though but yeah I put a good that's the question because your wife wants to go down to zero and free up that mortgage payment but you're what you're seeing is but babe we could make so much more leaving it in these mutual funds the way the Market's going right

that's the argument yeah over the years it's traditionally gotten seven to eight% yeah that's a that's truly a hard thing to Grapple with for the folks who love to see those numbers go up and we love investing around here but are you already investing in retirement yeah I have fully funded 401K

it's it's done very well amazing and you're in your 50s what's your household

income uh gross uh 450 to 500 so riddle

me this could you not invest could you not get back up to 500,000 in a brokerage account within a few years Max two years without a mortgage payment I don't know about two years but well without a well yeah no mortgage payment could you put 200 out of 500 into that brokerage account yes there we go I yeah I would

double my investment monthly on a monthly basis pretty quickly yeah you're going to retire a multi multi-millionaire Ken and in the meantime I want you to have peace and freedom and owe nobody anything and allow yourself to enjoy these moments with these kids before they're all out of the house go on Amazing vacations

out baby pay that house off and remember if you hate being debt free no mortgage payment just go get yourself into more debt you they'll always give you a loan against that house Ken so uh I I hope you become debt free I think you're going to enjoy it I don't think you'll look back man thanks so much for the call this is the ramsy [Music]

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Ramsey [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney this hour give us a call at aa825 5225 and if you're wondering why

I'm wearing a shirt that just says deloney on it it's because I'm here to support my friend John deloney during his book launch week we're all very excited about it around here uh and I'm excited we have a launch party tomorrow here at the uh Event Center it's going off man can't wait I uh we've never done one of these we haven't not with the level of complexity slash level of um

work I still have to do in the next 24 hours to get this thing off we are throwing a rager on the clock going be pretty wild I'm excited about it well 12 bring your plugs it's GNA be loud yes

all right let's get to Carol in Indianapolis Carol how's it going good thank you how can we help

today uh my husband and I are debt free

net worth about a million we have six months emergency savings congratulations thank you thank you after seeing multiple homes over the last few years we bought a very thought after lot so much so we're being contacted by like private Builders asking if we want to sell but we're currently very happy in what we thought would be a temporary home but we are growing out of it my main question is is

now a good time to build since I owned a

lot do I need a realtor for custom build

um we have about 75 grand saved up for

what we think we're going to build okay have you started reaching out to builders because that's really the only people you need to work with at this point oh yeah you think it's a good time to build well the right time to build is when you have the money and so that's the beauty of of having that Financial Freedom so if you're asking is the right time to build is as far as

the economy goes rates or what cuz you guys are going to take on a mortgage to do this econom we we would have to I mean our current home is worth about 4805 that we have that's I don't know if

we should rent it make money out of it no please don't please don't take money out of it please please please please please please don't take money out of it don't put one house on the Block for another house that's a way to lose them both okay but we would still need to take out a small mortgage maybe 200 Grand okay so if you if you sold the

house yes so you sell the house you get you know let's say 440 out of it MH and then

you have your 75 that puts you at a little over 500 and you're saying hey it's going to cost 700 all in we take out a mortgage for 200 of that it might be more closer to eight now that I think about it okay it's just so expensive well what's your household income our household income it varies

from month to month but I could say on average about 12,000 fantastic so let's

say hey we really need to keep this mortgage around 3,000 and if we're going to do that on a 15-year we can start crunching the numbers to go are we ready for this build are we ready to take on an $800,000 project or do we need to wait

and save up another 50 Grand 100 Grand to make this make sense right we could easily hold off in this house for no more than two years okay but it's not it's not too early to do the homework and go hey let's contact a builder let's start to see what this would actually cost let's see how much mortgage we could actually afford based on our income and that will give you some actual facts versus just I think

and maybe and I feel I like to have some real numbers on it the fact okay and do

I need a realtor for a custom build no you own the land you're G to have to I would recommend getting several Builders and having them give you a bid and have some sort of idea of what you want the house to look like and maybe you and your husband can go through plans online or hand them to a builder and say Here's what we're interested in or look around

and ask people at your local church whoever who have used a custom builder we had a great experience we had a terrible experience and then interview them at your house they work for you

right and then ask give you Allin cost and go through that whole process now the spot where a realtor could come in Carol is their expertise their relationships with builders in the area their negotiation skills uh project oversight resale considerations things like that I would still say hey there's a lot of value in having a realtor involved but do you need a realtor in order to build a home

if you on the lot not necessarily how do you say goodbye to them since they helped us by B lot and our current home ah so are they wanting in on this because you already have a current realtor that you love yes she helped us by our current home and the lot and she's mentioned when you're ready to build contact me contact me and I don't I haven't had

the guts to say goodbye well so maybe this call her and ask her what does a realtor help me do what's the value how are you making money from this what is this relationship look like and then if it's if it doesn't make sense for you guys just say hey thank you so much you've been amazing but we're going to continue forward without a realtor on this one

and maybe you do work with her and maybe it's a huge blessing but I'm just if you're the question is do I absolutely need one no okay I'm saving up to have some work done at my place and it has never

occurred to me to call a realator maybe that's on Me Maybe Maybe I'm Wrong on that one but that's never occurred to me um I have uh reached out to several folks who would be either General Contractors or Builders to come out and help me and if I did keep her I would pay her out of my pocket correct it would you pay a percentage of the total build yeah yeah that's what I'm curious about what how

the deal would be structured if she's willing to negotiate on that but you're not buying a house she's not finding you a house she's not searching through MLS and she's not putting you into a system um it's not a traditional

realtor relationship she yeah so maybe

you're going to pay her 05% or 1% to help find you the right Builder and I don't think she's going to be serving as a general contractor making sure everything that what the Builder's going to do and so um I don't exactly know what that relationship would be but if you have a good relationship with her she's been trustworthy sounds she like she's been awesome sit down

and say like what would you bring to this equation because otherwise I was going to call start calling Builders and begin to thumb through them that way love it best of luck Carol that's a big project excited for you guys all right Christian joins us in Los Angeles Christian welcome to the show hey thanks for taking my call sure how can we help hey so um I'm a I'm 27

I

live at home debt free um at my parents house uh so I have no bills uh they don't pay they don't charge me any rent um I'm currently making gross 80,000 a year awesome in savings I have 80 ,000

cash 130 liquid and I'm look I don't invest in anything except for just my uh my pension plan um so I'm not going to be able to touch that anytime soon but um

I'm looking to invest essentially and I looked at the market CDs and or if I were to throw it at the stock market into like a mutual fund um I do plan on

using my money to purchase a home within the next two years um once I have enough for for a down payment um which is looking to be about it's gonna be about 150,000 for what I'm looking at okay in my range so I'm looking at my money is not doing anything for me right now essentially it's like I said it's 880,000 sitting in the bank um I'm when

I say liquid I purchased a truck cash um just because I never had a new vehicle and honestly I'm considering just selling it I'll get 50 50,000 for it right now so yeah you said 130 liquid that's including if you sold the truck exactly I have 880,000 cash though and so I'm looking to just invest and I'm not I'm can't buy a home right now I I mean

the house the prices are just crazy um they're not going to go down man I hate to I know everyone says that they're not um yeah I I understand that I'm looking to I guess my long-term goal is like my Five-Year Plan essentially is I'm gonna just you know stay at home not pretty much pay no bill just my minimal regular bills but five years can I push back on that why um

I know it makes economic sense I

get that but man you got to go out and live your life you got to learn how to pay bills you got to learn how to live on your own have your friends yeah no I I get that um I'm just I don't want to yeah I can go out and get like a cheaper uh condo I don't want to get wrapped up in HOAs I guess I'm right now the home prices that I'm looking at it's like, you're you're a 27 28y Old

Man Grand a year living with his mom

yeah you're saying I should just go on rent yes because listen you this is this is a the math problem you're you're right the math problem I am able to save this much money at my mom and dad's house yes there is the psychosocial development side of this where you learn how to be an adult how to be a grown man

and lean on yourself that discomfort of having a place making the calls having to set up your own electricity call it when the Bill's wrong all of those things are about being an adult going to your neighbors and saying hey we all turn the music down those are all skills your body needs to learn that you don't get when Mommy's doing your laundry for you at 30 years of age

so Christian sell the truck too much of your world get something reasonable don't invest this money put it in a high yield savings account because that time Horizon is way too short my [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ramsey personality George camel joined by my colleague Dr John deloney strictly colleagues sometimes friends best friends and we are here for you America the number to call 8825 5225 5 we love having a

conversation with you helping you take the right next step with your money your life your relationships all of it Taylor's up next in Milwaukee Taylor welcome to the show hey how's it going guys great how are you you're a little muff speak directly in your phone for me a little muffled is that better perfect okay um so my fiance and I have

been struggling to pay off a little bit of our credit card debt and I was thinking the other night she works she makes about 14 1450 a month take-home

and she's paying we're paying $1,200 a month in daycare um and so I thought to myself why we do do instacart um and and

door Dash and stuff on the side um and I thought to myself why don't you just quit your job put your two we notice in she's starting Cosmetology School in the spring anyway so she's going to have to be leaving her job when you quit your job um and just do instacart door Dash

uh stuff like that uh full time um with

our son staying at home more with him uh

and it's kind of funny I was listening to you guys a show a couple days ago and I kind of feel like a little desperate right now um and I picked up something

that stuck with me and I said that when you're feeling desperate you're gonna make a you're gonna be stupid you're gonna make a stupid Choice yes good call man so I thought man you know maybe I could get on here and talk to you guys and see how you guys feel about this what do you feel desperate about brother just so we're current

so listen to the show we've been paying off we've been throwing all of our extra pennies um at our credit cards to we

have just over 20 about 20 $23,000 in

debt um and we want to take care of it because we want to buy a house so we've been throwing all of our extra pennies at it well I had to pay for books um for

my school I'm uh apprentice electrician ibw and books came do so I went to pay for my books and I thought I was adding my credit card payment but I paid the whole thing so that was a couple weeks ago and so the last couple weeks we've been kind of literally living paycheck to paycheck working out of a negative bank account trying to catch up because we totally did not expect that because then a couple days later her our payment for

daycare um glitched and it double paid

that week so we paid out like $1500 extra that we were not expecting that week and so we're finally just that was a couple weeks ago finally just tomorrow you know when she gets paid uh we won't be working out of a negative account we can get back on track you know working at her debt um she just got into a car

accident Friday so which it might help it wasn't her it wasn't her fault someone pulled out the front of her um so in a roundabout way we might not have

to pay her car loan anymore you know and we'll just buy a beater C because God I don't want to pay I don't want uh another car so the 23,000 total between the car loan and the credit cards no I'm not including that car loan

into this if we include that it's up over 40 but I don't think we're gonna have to I think yeah I think eliminated

my income right now is400 a month um

take-home um we I work a lot of overtime

with my job uh and it's temporarily

permanent over time I guess because with

being a a those hold on those are opposite words with overtime you're bringing up 2,400 a month no no no with overtime it's like 3,300 a month and it's that's consistent for I

know but that's 500 extra dollars right

I'm sorry 33900 extra dollars but I wanted to use I I don't want to count on that overtime because at any point it could get eliminated right here okay you've got you've got money chaos but let me just cut right to it dude underneath that you've got other chaos

what is well so a couple years ago we wanted

to buy we really wanted to buy a house so we thought we could move into my parents house and save up some money uh well that didn't work Co hit and this

hit and we got Frugal with the money and it just it just underneath that what's

underneath that um here's what you sound like to me okay you sound like a dad you got one kid or two kids two two

kids is this woman your wife um no we're engaged we've we've

been engaged for about eight years

why we I don't know we just have so when

we hold wait we don't have time to go through the whole thing here's what it sounds like yeah yeah yeah yeah you sound like a guy who is fraying at the edges in a way that makes me makes me nervous for you the money is symptomatic IC of a

life of a guy playing whack-a-mole with his life yeah can I I'm going to ask you a hard question you don't have to answer it are you using right now um I I drink no yes here's how I

know that the way you are living your

body was not designed to handle the

wack-a-mole stress you put on it and you have to have something to shut that system down either you have something to speed up that system to keep up with it or you got to have something to shut it down I'm a I'm a I'm a very anxious

person yes I am yes what you need my man is to uh you

have to have a plan but you got to have something beneath all this dude let me

ask you what are you running

from failure I guess yes why what are

you scared of man you have a woman who loves you you got two healthy kids

yeah I mean honestly this might sound kind of crazy but I've always been commitment I'm afraid of commitment I've always been really good at everything I do but I can't ever just stick with one thing okay but when you get lasered in on something I bet you're freaking amazing aren't you I'm enjoying my career right

now yeah that's right I am but are you the kind of guy that's going to get certified and get a great job and six months later you're going to be like oh look over here uh um no okay I can't I can't so here's the

deal 33 I don't want to start over again I love I love what I do I really do that's amazing that's amazing you are I need you I want you to

do something crazy when we get off this call and it's going to sound insane okay I want you to make a fist and I want you to put it right in the middle of your chest and I want you to walk into your bathroom and shut the door and say these words out loud I love this guy

and I want you to stare yourself in the

eyes and my I'd be willing to bet money that that's going to be hard for you to

do because right now you have a woman telling you I love you so much I'll I will play your little commitment gymnastics even though we're together for eight years because she loves you that much and you got two kids you love you got parents who are like dude move on in you have a boss that's like do we want you so bad around here we're going to give

you extra time cuz we need you and your skill set and your character around here the only person I hear in your life that doesn't believe in you is you and that has to stop today you got

two little boys you got two little kids looking up to you man okay I just called an electrician and spent an ungodly amount of money you know what I looked at that guy and I said I said I trust you to take care of my family because you have a skill set I don't have please help and he came in he said I got you that's what you do for guys like me yeah every day I do that

but you have to address the drinking and you have to address the anxiety and you have to address this

pretend I'm not getting married because I don't like commitment but I'm with the same person I've built a family in a home but sort of with this woman marry

her and be done with that so your body

can rest right and then we give you a plan

on the money we'll give you a plan on the money man just got to follow the plan okay does that I mean does that sound good it does yeah Taylor I don't think

the solution here is man if she just stays home our problems are over you're just trading one problem for another Wacko and it's not going to get you out of the money mess it's not going to be a big dent in the financial hole you guys have created but you got to get serious about this if she can get her income up that will help the problem we're going to hook

you up listen I'm going to send you building the non anxious life my new book I want you to follow it the second thing is I'm going to send you every dollar the best money app for yall two to use together for a year for free I'm going to send you the FPU lessons for free but y'all got to do them as a couple and make some commitments

and I want you to send me a wedding invitation in the next 30 days game on my brother I'll go with you John it'll be fun Taylor thanks so much for the call hang on the line Austin will pickup we'll get you all those goodies man wishing you guys the best that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the [Music]

books hey it's John delone co-host of the ramsy show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsy show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to Ramy solutions.com

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George camel co-host of smart money happy hour and of course leading the charge on the George cam YouTube channel joined by Dr John deloney host of the Dr John deloney show you catch all those shows on the Ramy Network and uh

and a lot of other places as well we're pretty pretty much everywhere these days all over everywhere so give us a call at 8825 5225 if you want to jump into the conversation if you've got that question about money life relationships whatever it may be we'll give you our best and sometimes it's not great but it's what you got free but it is free it won't cost

you nothing all right Nick starts us off in Salt Lake City Nick welcome to the show hey um so yeah I I've had a pretty

big life change recently as far as income goes about a year ago I was making $2,000 a month working at a steel plant and then my brother-in-law told me that he thought I could sell and it turns out I could and my income has now since quintupled I don't know it would take me five years to do what I I mean it's it's an insane jump and my wife and

I are trying to manage it and I feel like we're hemorrhaging and we haven't saved enough considering how much we've made congratulations congrats so what are we talking are we talking 10K a month closer to 20 whoa congrats is that your

take-home pay my boss thinks uh for tax

I'm not sure what my that's the other thing I got to figure out taxes in this too and so I just oh they're not taking taxes out nope nope I'm technically a

self-employed 1099 okay so you better be putting away 30% of that every single month in a savings account I hav putting away so we

save so we have between our taxes and

then our church donation we put side about 45% okay and then we live off of

about well our budget puts us at 10% but

I feel like we're not doing that is what we're living off of and then we try to save the other 45 but that's not what's been happening how how long has this been going on about six months okay um cut yourself

a whole bunch of slack okay yeah like this is this rare

air congratulations y'all had a fun run and now you got to go be adults and it's all good okay yeah don't live in the a

Shucks a because what you are experiencing is the upside of sales what you haven't experienced is when our

Congressman decide to throw tennis balls at each other just for fun and shoot each other with Nerf guns and shut everything down the other side of sales right you're like a farmer now yeah and you farm no money no money no money then crops and then no money right so that's awesome you just got a plan for the future so 6 months youall had a wild time good times and now we got to be grown-ups right yeah okay so give us a

picture of your financial situation do you guys have any debt you have money in savings so we have a little the only debt we've brought on was on the advice of our accountant to try and bring our tax Li our tax liability down um we bought my wife a new car um before that she had a little car that we had paid off and I have a truck that I have paid off your accountant told you to go get a car loan he told us to get a loan so we

could not necessarily a loan but to buy a car so we could use it as a ride off oh my gosh dude is Michael Scott your accountant like how did you think this was a good idea that was it's what I've had a lot of people around me that they said that's what they did and so that's what we kind of thought we should do you need different grounding necessarily but yeah okay what's the car loan um it is 32,000 okay the good news

is you have an amazing income and you can pay the this thing off really fast and it's now not too big of a portion of your world 60 days you were making two grand a month I would be like sell this car today 60 days yeah 6 Z got it okay 60 days you

have you have to make very focused goals with your money right now you're in baby step two you have a th000 bucks in the bank I assume you have a lot more than that in the bank right now 15 in the

bank 15 of the bank so this car loan can already get cut in half today and then with the next few paychecks the bank I guess if you include I I won't talk about the tax account but yeah 15 and saving yeah tax account doesn't that's that is Untouchable we don't touch it don't touch it don't touch it it does not exist yes until tax time and they go hey you owe $60,000 in taxes and instead

of going oh my gosh you went okay yeah we save for that great yeah so we're going to pay off this car as soon as possible then we're going to stack up three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund that we also don't touch unless there's a true emergency yeah and that's what that's what this money is for because we live off of about including the car about 2500 a month because our rent is only $800 great so

this will help accelerate you to Baby Steps 456 now are you in a home you said

you're renting you want to buy a home one day we want to buy a home next year right now the situation we're in we got um we got fortunate I suppose um our my

wife's grandparents have a house that they it's a 42 that they rent us and so we're in a 800 bucks your Salt Lake City no well we're close to Salt Lake okay Nick you all are winning life right now you falling through the a glitch in The Matrix man this is your chance to get a hit that's I yeah I mean it's just

I I mean I just learned I have a talent in sales I mean I've broken every record this company had and it just was it's a lot to handle but also but six months

you can have a lot of talent or you could have just gotten real lucky yeah that too I don't know that's

the thing right both so it's probably a little bit of both and so um George tell me if I'm I'm crazy here I almost sense a need for you guys you and your wife to roll back for maybe just say

we're going to do a 90day Sprint but roll back some of the gazelle

intensity remember what it felt like to be broke and get that laser

focused yeah because if you don't you're gonna wake up in a mess yeah you're gonna buy a house that you can't afford you're buy a house based on 20,000 bucks a month and then the Builder's going to be like what are you doing you're going to your income's going to keep going up and you're going to buy a house based off $30,000 a month and someone's GNA tell

you you got to get a card to right off too and you're gonna get a BMW and next thing you know you're gonna be Dave Rams you be broke yeah so here's the deal you got to keep living like you make $2,000 a month

for the next six months months until you're out of this hole you're in a great place you have a financial Foundation you're investing 15% you're saving money towards that down payment cuz you have like a fake life right now paying 800 bucks a month in rent making $20,000 a month utilize this while you can instead of the YOLO Vibes that you've been putting out and you will be in such a great place financially six months from now me

and George tried to convince people for three years the government is not charging you any interest on your student loans this is there's never been a better time in human history to pay them off than right this second your payments are on sale and 1% I have zero student debt I know but I'm saying 1% of America took our advice oh yeah the other 99 are right

now going oh God what are we gonna do similar to you if you for six months pretend that y'all are broke and you get an enti an emergency fund you pay off this a car get a new accountant go to

ramsy solutions.com tax get a new accountant for God's sakes um fire Michael scottt but you do this for 6 months you owe nobody anything you have six months emergency fund built up and youall starting a house fund brother your whole world is different and so is your marriage everything's different congratulations man never do it for the write off that's just life advice for you America this is the Ramsey [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney and if you haven't heard our first ever money and marriage getaway is happening October 19th through the 21st right here in Nashville Tennessee just up the hill from our headquarters at our brand new Ramsey Event Center and I'm so stoked about this event and I found out John I'm going to be a part of

it did you know that I fought hard I made the lineup to not have you on the lineup but they're bringing you AB board well John delone and Rachel Cruz have notoriously headlined this event for years now but this time it is a full weekend getaway people are traveling from all over the country to hang out and I you're going to be talking about sex and intimacy which I'm excited to don't misunderstand John

they will notc to hear your your sessions or budgeting which is very

similar yeah both have been known to cause great joy I'm pretty clear on the minute by minute I saw recently that I'm taking baby steps one two and three Jade will be covering some budgeting and you will be talking about I love the fact that I said sex and intimacy and you were blushing well I was trying to think of a joke I could tell on air that was familyfriendly

we don't have yeah so it was tough but I will can I tell you the name of my talk I'll be giving yes spice it up pillow talk the dirty secrets of

budgeting I was very proud of that one and it involves pillows so that's one

reason one re those aren't

pillows excellent George we're going to have so much fun this really is such a blast and you and your spouse will be equipped with tools to cast a vision for your family set goals create a life you both love and at the money marriage getaway you will have the get this undistracted time to disconnect from everyday life and reconnect with your spouse there's going to be interactive sessions Rachel Cruz Dr John deloney Jade warshaw myself we're going to be your guides to discuss money communication boundaries intimacy

and tickets cost $799 for this multi-day event for couples so if you're out of debt and you've got room in the budget please please join us we're going to have so much fun October 19th through the 21st come make it a party in Nashville Tennessee ramseys solutions.com events we've still got some tickets left that's the place to go Ramy solutions.com events it's going to be different than Ramy events in

the past for a couple different things one is it's not just going to be us um doing keynote after keynote after keynote very different format there's a whole lot of time of access like here's what we do in our

house let's have Q&A let's talk a lot of behind the scenes a lot of Q&A a lot of activity time let's figure this stuff out yeah so a lot of working this through the goal is is that um when we leave when all of us leave we have some tools to go home and make our marriages better and we have some time to practice this with experts

and other people while we're there and there's going to be other people practicing too so you're not going to be by yourself and it's not going to be me and Rachel and you and

Jade do what it's not going to be me and you and Rachel and Jade what' you say Jame I thought producer James was talking trash James is doing the sex talk that was my bad J James will be talking about sex and intimacy okay but it's not it you're going to come away having spent considerable on of time with us we're not talking at you we're talking with

you we're all working on our marriages too so it's going to be something that we're all going to do together I'm pretty excited about it stoked on this event and at that point I will be the dad of a two-month-old so maybe I'll do a talk on parenting I'll be an expert by you are an expert you are an expert show you how to change a diaper like you've never seen

before this is going to be fun I bet your diapering skills are A+ I try and I'm a little OCD John A little I try to get the Ruffles out I try to make the the little flaps even it's all right we'll get there let's get to the calls before James takes us off the air Georgia is in Chicago Georgia welcome to the ramsy show thank you hello what's going

on um I bought a car the end of July and

I was lied to about the price of the car um it was some from someone that I go to church with and um I signed the

contract without looking at it because I trusted this man and now I can't afford this car okay tell me more what do you mean you were lied to about the cost so they said it was a certain price and you paid that price yes they told me on the phone it was 25,000 okay um and I had gone to

take a trip two days after I bought it to North Carolina there was some issues with the car and out of frustration I was looking at the paperwork I got from the the sales and noticed that they had

charged me $7,000 more for the card than what I was told okay how I'm so confused as to how

you walked out of there having paid

$32,000 that wasn't a red flag to you like it came out how did you pay for the car um I went to my credit union but like I said it was from someone from my church

and I trusted him so after we had discussed you know the cost and their and all the taxes and everything and the

3,000 I was going to get out of my old car I kind of figured it would take me down to about 22,000 for the car so after discussing all this with him and signed a contract without reading it because again I trusted this man so it was out of the frustration when I pulled the paper out of my glove box um I noticed that it was 32,000 not

25,000 for the actual price of the car or did they tack on fees

warranties what made it 32 actual price what did he say when you called it he told me that they had had two

other Ford Escapes on the lot and probably just got it mixed up so what are they going to do to make it right they ain't G to do nothing I've contacted multiple I I bet

you I have called 30 lawyers and because I signed that contract this has nothing do with lawyers this has to do with have you gone up to meet in person with management not angry and not enraged but say hey this salesman is a friend of mine he told me this number he admitted that they mixed it up he admitted that they mixed up the cars I want the car that I discuss with the salesman because you all switch the cars on me yes I did and they still refused to

do anything about it even if the salesman would have told the the the

manager that he told me that they still refused to do anything about it okay and you've talked to attorneys and they say sorry yes okay so if you have a a legal

professional telling you their ethical duty is to not take your money because you don't have a case that means you don't have a cas case and sometimes they'll tell you we don't know that you have a case but we think we can win this let's figure something out and what they've all told you is honey we're not going to take your money it would be unethical for us to take your money what does that mean

you found yourself in a quandry and so I want you to do me a favor okay as hard as this is going to be I want you for a while to forget about that man that you said you trusted because that doesn't factor into the situation that you found yourself in now okay did he do you wrong yes did he lie yes did he not protect you whatever

but you said the words I kind of figured and then I signed a contract and that's that as you as an adult have to say I also signed a contract without looking at the final numbers I did take his word but I didn't do my due diligence also and here I sit with this thing and now I got to figure out what to do is that cool cuz what here's what you're doing that anger

and that rage that you have however Justified right it is he's off doing his thing it's only poisoning you right yes

so let's do our best to set that down however righteous and unjust it is you

got to deal with a car that you can't afford So when you say you can't afford it what does that mean um it's actually the price of the car

was 32,000 but by the time you I attach

a warranty on that I'm up to 38,000 now

what is the loan amount um if I wait seven years $448,000

no not if you wait seven years what was the loan amount you took out uh 38 okay and what is your

income uh it's 31 uh 3100 a month okay

and what is the car worth

today um I'm going to guess around

25,000 okay here's the deal you bought

too much car anyways even if it was2 5,000 and so here's what you can do you could probably get rid of that warranty and they can refund you for that you can leave Yelp reviews you can call the local news and get him to a story but at the end of the day you got to realize I got to pay a stupid tax I played a giant role in this conundrum and you might

have to sell it and eat the cost of that and come up with the difference to get rid of this loan and get a reasonable car but you sure learned your lesson you're always going to read the fine print of every single thing you sign for the rest of your life and I'm sorry that you had to learn it a hard way we're hoping for the best for you hoping this can get resolved from this dealership Georgia thanks for the call this is the Ramsey [Laughter] [Music]

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[Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show hey if you enjoy this show please consider doing something that costs you very little time or money and that is consider subscribing to the show leaving a review where you're listening and sharing it with a friend it's one of the best ways to share the show we have a marketing budget of of close to zero because you guys are the marketing budget

because you're naturally talking about this sharing this hey you got to check out this clip you got to listen to this episode I listen to the Ramsey Show and podcast wherever you're listening tell people about it it helps a ton and we so so appreciate we want to spread this message to as many people as possible in the next year all right let's get back to the phones Sean joins us in Durham up

next Sean welcome to the Ramsey show Howdy thanks for having me

sure what's going on um so my wife and I

had an impass on some financial decisions and since we got ourselves into clear using ramsy Solutions you know 20 years ago we figured we' we'd call y'all to try and try and help us with this dispute all right I'm team Sean George's team wife let's go we'll defend both of your honors so um we've got a daughter that's finishing up high school um looking at college career field that she's looking at is probably a graduate School type thing um

and just looking at the schools and looking at the cost of housing um I'm looking at it and I'm thinking you know what I'd rather just buy her a place and you know build on an investment and my wife's looking at that decision and suggestion and going we don't take out any more debt until our home our own home is completely paid off and you know looking at

the baby steps looking at all the advice to the years we're just trying to figure out if we're in the same place or if that's something we should be be considering man John is regretting choosing your team at this point I am too dang it we were so close

man your wife's right Sean your wife's right so you're seeing this on paper right you're looking at on paper going man we're going to spend a th000 bucks a month for the next four years six years

might as well get some Roi out of this is that the idea an RO Roi but also

possibly a place she could live in long term um you know where going to an investment in my kids um you we're looking at uh North Carolina Wilmington

out on the coast okay so a few hours from you guys how far is that it's about two two and a half maybe

maybe three hours on a bad day which most most days are bad days when people want to go to the beach okay so let's say HVAC goes out at this place are you driving three hours to go fix it no we're hiring someone to take care of that okay so that's going to be something to think about as aan on that answer what kind of question was that it's a possibility people don't want to pay

the property management fees and what is the cost of rent out there let's say she lived on campus or does she plan on living on campus um I mean I'm we're we're weighing the cost right now my my fear is what if she gets some Foo like man I'd love to live on campus next year and you're like no I bought you a place you have to live

there and now you're renting to random college kids well and almost every College I know of has a freshman live on requirement is that right um she won't technically be a freshman because of the number of credits she's pulling because she's doing College while she's in high school ah okay so so let's back let's back out of this get to pick Let's back let's back out of

this and look another Direction because I do dude I've lived that life I know the ring board is astronomical particularly the boarding the colleges have make a significant amount of money off the board plan with their Mark Professor so I know too there you go so you know how that game works and so um um so let's do the well what

college do you work at oh you don't have I work at North Carolina Central University okay we could talk offline about that so

sure what do you owe on your house um we owe a 100 Grand we've gotten

it down to 100 how long would it take yall to do a Sprint and get that sucker paid off um our best scenario we for about

three or for about five years we've been chunking like about 20K into it every summer off of my wife's seasonal income so we we've been hitting it hard for a while our best scenario is 3 to 5

years okay um yeah just and and that's not

figuring into the scenario of you know we plan on bankrolling her education yeah that was the other question is is this college completely paid for for sure we we we're going to basically shift into pounding down the house into paying for college Okay so I'm going to say something that's never a fun conversation but it's unfortunately one I've had to have probably 10,000 times in the last 20 years that's I I we overstated that but such it is um you're

a professor your child has said here's what I want to do probably going to end up in grad school that makes sense that's the path her dad took it may even be the path her mom took um both me and my wife went to grad school for a long time both of us have been professors all that and you and I also both both know

that every year millions of people enter

in as freshmen with very clear plans and millions of students every year change plans meet somebody I met a

girl at a church camp just a few weeks before school started and I turned down a full ride to go somewhere else right so it's all over the place what I would hate for you to do if you told me hey I've got cash I want to buy uh a condo and whatever I would say buy it right now awesome but if you saying I'm still trying to pay off my house we're going to shift paying off the house into

helping cash flow college and so we're going to have to take out a second mortgage on a place man that you're leveraging your family at and I hate to say it like this but you know I'm right at the whims of an 18-year-old and that's a I would tell you I wouldn't tell you to do that just for you and your wife if youall wanted to to have a Airbnb or whatever but even

more so man that makes me nervous that

from knowing how many college students I've worked with over the years that have great plans and then Mom gets sick

boyfriend moves my professor quits they shut down the program any number of things happen and suddenly you've got you got a house payment to make and you have a a child who's like well Dad I'm just going to come back home and I'm going to go to Central and all a sudden you're like well what are we going to do now you see what I'm saying right

I just wouldn't do it yep yep and I know how hard that board plan is to God Almighty how hard that board plan is to pay for geez man that hurts it it just it's just yeah I look at all the hard work we've done and

looking at what would be half of what would possibly go into our house is just going out the window well I mean it's it's providing here a place to eat and it's a place to sleep I mean it's not going out the window but I see that you're not you don't have what you project might be a return on this down the road yeah seeing it they for a lot of it like

if if you're going to do right she'd be required to live on campus correct thing so yeah there's no option there's just so many variables here and there's if one thing goes wrong this whole plan falls apart and at 7% interest on top of your current mortgage it's going to add more stress than it's going to be a blessing and I'd rather see her go get a part-time job while she's in school she needs to help pay for some of this I like that game and you know I I I think

kids are resilient sometimes an understatement with my daughter I think full time's good you're a great dad I I don't think this kind of love you man I wish Sean was my dad Sean buy me an investment condo

please I like my dad but I do like your like your heart man and I like just try to think through all this that's fantastic absolutely well John that reminded me on this desk a team member of ours got this a letter for his daughter from discover the Discover at student cash back card she's 18 debt-free this man lives by the Ramsey principles and she's getting marketed all

this very bright pink garbage and uh it's amazing John how they Market to can I tell you when I saw the envelope I thought you were going to embarrass me with like a money marriage Love Letter I'm not kidding I wish nope here's here's the Love Letter John save money while you build your credit history enjoy 0% intro APR on purchases

for 6 months and then it says after that your standard variable purchase APR applies currently 18 to 27% you know how many 18-year- olds know what that is less than 0 they're not looking at that all they see is 5% cash back on Amazon quarterly no interest and here's

what they Market a good credit history could help you buy a car rent an apartment and more start building yours by applying below goodness gracious Predators man this is disgusting Predators but hey the cards are pretty John hey that should be the that should be a segment on the George camel show To Catch a Predator o

and you should read um the fine print from credit card companies credit card oh my gosh uh ads that are praying on certain groups of people military folks elderly folks 18-year-olds everybody yeah hey parents do yourselves a favor intercept this junk mail and shred it

light it on fire and then explain to your kids why they should never sign up for a credit card at 18 years old this is the ramsy

[Music]

show

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey show our scripture of the day second Corinthians 4:18 so we fix our eyes not on what is seen but what is unseen since what is seen is temporary but what is unseen is

eternal Al ree said you don't have to focus on everything to be successful but you do have to focus on something good

stuff there Addie joins us up next in Anchorage Addie welcome to the show hey thank you what's going

on all right so me and my husband are in baby four five and six this is a question that if whenever I was paying off my $100,000 in student loan debt I would have rolled my eyes at because we're in a position now where we can financially afford um to get our vehicles fixed however um it feels like

this week has just been one thing after another we have $60,000 in our savings

and a mortgage of 280 we have two paid for cars and one is what I would say

like a beater we got it and we shared it for a year it has $1,000 worth of um

things that need be fixed on it but my husband believes that he can handle that um and so that is our Trailblazer it's 04 and then we have a 2017 Hyundai that

we paid for in cash in 2021 it was kind

of in the um I'm sorry in 20 yeah 2021

it was kind of in the incline of like the appreciation of um cars Ed card

value but we we paid 16,000 yes we paid

16,000 for this 2017 uh Santa Fe Hyundai

and it was Kelly Blue booking for around 21,000 so we felt like we had a good deal we had a mechanic check it out and it has been a good car for us for the past two years since then we've added two kids and this week I have been in the car auto shop place for over six hours with two children under two and so I'm frustrated and we have um today I

was told that in order to get the um Hyundai fix

the one that we have the most invested into it's going to be $5,700 now I understand that this is just one person's quote however I don't imagine that that number will fluctuate too much going to a different auto shop in our area and so me and my husband are

presented with the issue to be able to decide are we going to put in $5,700 in order to get it fixed and it's not like a cosmetic issue it's more like an engine issue or I hope it's not cosmetic for that that's wild yeah yeah no I don't care you should see our Trailblazer and it's like we didn't even know Alaska had radio until we got a new

car and so we we piled through we piled

through our debt and moved up here to do that and so we paid off $100,000 um in a

couple years so we're in a good position um

financially and we have the Savings in order to just go out and buy you said you had 50k in savings we have 60k in savings and that and of that would be our 3 to six months um emergency fund um or expenses um and

so we um we just put like literally last

week put up the pay off the house uh

picture in order to shade off room by room and then we get hit with us so we just trying to decide would you um put

in the money to fix the 16 the Hyundai

which is Kelly weing around $16,000 right now is that with the that need to be made um it would not that would include like if it was just fine and ready to go so this 5700 you could sell it for

16 yes okay and if you don't you're selling it for 10 or less yes got it and you're wondering do

we do this or do we just upgrade the car and sell it as is for the 10 grand right so let's say you sell it for 10 and you buy another car with 20 that's 30 you can put towards something but they would just hurt emotionally because either way this sucks it's not like there's an amazing shortcut how do we move yeah how do we move past this we actually have money in order to upgrade or to fix but we are feeling like I guess the pressure of

just like okay hold on we don't want to sink another listen there's no pressure

any pressure you feel is imaginary anytime I get desperate or I get frustrated I make stupid choices stupid

yes yes you just spent 6 hours in a mechanic shop with two little kids you should make no decisions none not even what's for dinner for 72 hours every nerve you have it's like getting like you just have like four root canals just unfilled right now right so I would rather fly to Alabama on a plane with those two than Auto all day long yes shots fired at the state of Alabama so listen there there's zero pressure that's where we're from oh there we go listen you have $50,000 in the bank you have no pressure

here what you have to decide is how you

want to solve this problem but you have the tools to solve it so any pressure you feel I would say slow down 100% chance get another opinion on

this that's a really high I totaled my

car totaled it and they said the repair

um was going to be about 6,000 bucks I don't know what they're repairing on a Hyundai for for what is that 5 thou six

for 6,000 bucks who knows maybe they got to replace the entire engine but it's feel I feel like you could get an entire engine for $6,000 right here's the other piece I want you to think through I can't think of a climate that would beat up a car more than Anchorage Alaska and I don't know you keep calling these cars I've invested this money in you are not

you are putting money in a depreciating asset there is no investment Happening Here so you keep spending money on your vehicles which is great you have the money you'll work hard and you're kick and butt I would not personally um spend a whole bunch of

money on brand new cars in a climate where half the year the roads are salted like crazy where I'm getting rocks and snow and they're frozen I I wouldn't I wouldn't invest that kind of money in a really nice car for sure and so I think that youall

need a nice dinner and some time away from this for just a second cuz what's going to happen is you're going to go we have to get a brand new $50,000 car because remember that time we were in the shop for 6 hours it was awful so you need to give yourself a little bit of space before you make a terrible financial decision and maybe even this

you know what like I know on the Ramy show like just make it and then move on I can see if if let's say this you're my wife and we're having this conversation and we both agree let's just bite the bullet and pay the money and fix this car if I'm your husband I would go get the car detail super nice get the Shar carpet shampooed

clean it up maybe get to put a radio in it I'm going to do something so feels a little bit not like that old car that just cost you an entire day of your life and $6,000 more dollars right there's a little that's that's a nothing it's a token but it is like a it's an olive

branch towards hey we got bigger goals and our bigger goal is we paid off 100 Grand and now let's buy ourselves a home and let's just don't have one pissed off awful kid screaming diapers everywhere day in a mechanic shop and then spend $30,000 on a depreciating asset that Alaska's going to destroy right I know that's so I don't think we were helpful at all take a breather and either way you're gonna be okay y listen you have $50,000 hear me say this any anxiety you

feel is imaginary if you called me and said I'm a single mom of two kids in Anchorage Alaska and they told me I have to have $6,000 and I have no money then I would be scared to death for you that's not your situation the position where I need to change my mindset of we are out of debt we are free we're not like in this stress

anymore and we have the position to make

a decision rather than just what life happen to us yes now what you're doing is you're transitioning you're transitioning from this is an emergency to this is super annoying just an inconvenience super annoying man cuz we want to do something else with that six grand like anything else other than fix this car but here we are I'll tell you one story John life hack we were going to buy my car my wife upgrade her old car

it was going to be like 18 grand for like a Mazda SUV this was back in 2020 and instead we found one that was way older but it was eight grand and I was like how about this I'll put carplay in it so I spent like 700 bucks and got the thing upgraded with carplay and it felt like a brand new car

I drove deta really nice it was awesome it fantastic so there's always but there's always that thing in your mind where you're like we need that new car John it's so much more reliable it's so much more no you got to get over it it's mostly for ego at that point just bite the bullet pay the money and then do one little nice thing to make it super

we both destroy our cars yes so and I've seen your car John you personally destroyed it I've pushed your car down the highway so there's that's a true story we don't talk about that we don't talk about Bruno or my Tesla that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books until next time spend wisely save intentionally and give

generously hey it's George camel if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to Ramsey solutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 185. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 4, 2024)


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| **Video ID** | `mDbcjtBPbqY` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDbcjtBPbqY) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:57 |

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[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause] today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people do work that they

love build wealth and create actual

amazing relationships Dr John deloney

Ramsey personality number one bestselling author and host of the ever

popular Dr John deloney show is my

co-host today open phones at 8825

5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money Spencer is in

Memphis to start this hour hey Spencer

what's up hey um I am calling because I have

gotten myself into quite a bit of debt over the past about 5 years and it's

come down to uh I'm debating if uh

declaring bankruptcy would be one of my options wow i' want to avoid it at all

cost but I don't know what else to do at

this point pretty scary dude you

married not

anymore how long you been

split about three and a half years now

money play a part in that it did I'm

sorry how old are you I am 24 wow um so

how much debt have you you got uh it started about four years ago

and I got 20 it's about $23,000 worth

right now 23,000 in debt on

what uh I had two vehicles and then I

got a $3,000 personal loan uh two credit

card three credit cards that were only

like $500 a piece and then

um I had a military star credit card as

well that went into collections uh so

how much of the 23,000 is the credit

cards uh maybe 1,500 bucks maybe a

thousand oh okay how much do you

currently own two cars I do not and

that's the problem I lost just about

everything during the divorce but I ended up keeping the credit or the the debt for it so so so wait a minute she's

driving both of the

cars uh no it's kind of a long story

long story short whenever I went through

the divorce um she took one of the

vehicles and she had it for about 2

years refused to sign divorce papers I

couldn't file the car as stolen because

she was my wife uh she would never pay

on it so I ended up not paying for it at

all they couldn't repossess it because they didn't know where it was and then

so that was one car I didn't where is that car today go ahead it and it

finally got repossessed but now I still

owe 9 ,000 left okay so she have a repo

of 9k all right where's the other car

the other one uh as I got it I never

turned in the title to it to the bank so

I ended up I believe it turned into a

personal loan or a vehicle loan with no

collateral uh that one was for

6,000 where is that

car I technically I do have the a car to

show for that I have a 2008 Yukon and

okay so it didn't have a lean on it and you sold it and bought a Yukon correct

okay all right and what's your Yukon

worth uh maybe five grand I probably get

five grand for it okay and it's doesn't

have a lean on it no it does not I have

the title okay and what do you make I

make I just got a new job making 58 a

year okay all right all right you're not

bankrupt you're scared and you're hurting correct but you're

mathematically not bankrupt hear me no

sir I've been doing this a long time you just don't know what to do next that's all correct okay you're you're hurting

because all this stuff was out of your control the divorce broke your heart and

you've just kind of swept stuff under

the rug and now you got a really lumpy

rug exactly yeah and um this stuff has a

high rate of Resurrection it comes back

to life zombie money problems yeah they

don't die they just keep coming out of the the grave and they're uglier every time they come out until you shoot them

okay now uh so here's the thing if you

file Chapter 7 bankruptcy uh you can

clear every bit of this and you'll keep

your Yukon under current law in the state of Tennessee and you live in Memphis okay so that is possible I would

not recommend it though you can settle

repo debt for somewhere around uh 15 to

20 cents on the dollar and um and a lot

of your debt is

debt so if we're looking at 20,000 bucks

four or five grand will clear that with

some negotiation and some fight okay but you

got to call them up like the 9,000

they'll probably take 1,500 bucks maybe

2,000 and clear that on the ex-wife's

car that you never really figured out whatever all that stuff right right

right right okay so if you call those people it's not n Grand it's two grand

cuz that's about what you can settle it for cuz they're just going to be so happy somebody called cuz they can't

find nobody in this story they're everybody even the freaking car disappeared in this story right so

absolutely yeah and so if you don't pay

anyone and file bankruptcy you could do

the same thing and just not pay

anyone and not file then the only thing

that could happen is they could come and sue you okay but none of them have yet

none of them have yet not yet correct I

have a court hearing in July for um it's

a i got a set of rims and tires after I

got out of the military and I honestly

never paid on it okay so here's the

thing I can I be mean to you for just a

second in the middle of all your pain please do I need to hear it please do you got to quit buying crap that you don't have money for period absolutely

period and okay like I mean rims and

tires sounds like a 16y old absolutely

okay but that's kind of what you are when you're coming out of the military for the first yeah absolutely so yeah I mean so let's

throw let's throw our shoulders back and start acting like we're 30 or 40 with

our maturity level on our decisions

rather than a wounded 24 year old guy

who's had the snot beat out of him okay

absolutely and I I think you can do that

and we'll help you um so what I'm going

to do is I'm going to assign a Ramsey counselor to you for free and they're going to walk you through step by step how to clear every one of these debts it's going to take

you about n m maybe a year to clear them

all and to negotiate and you're going to

have to be tough and you're going to have to quit buying crap okay can you do

those two things if I help you

absolutely okay so what I'm saying is

23,000 we can probably get all that

cleared for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 and you make 50

you can do that in a year but you're going to to scratch and argue with these people a little bit and get it

done absolutely yeah and so so you if

you file bankruptcy when you could have cleared it for $112,000 that'd be just silly I would agree with that 100%

that's okay I needed somebody to tell me all right so you're a good man Spencer

you just been hurting does that give you does that give you peace Spencer that give you some grit it did that helped a lot it did because I I felt like I was

on the edge of the walkboard for quite a

while now she beat you up pretty good

yeah it uh it wasn't nice is there a

little one involved too no not not with

at the time I do have one now yes

okay oh you're 24 right now correct all

right when you get done with here I want you to write 30-year-old Spencer a

letter about the man you are going to be

when you're 30 no more kids unless you're married no

more borrowing money no more buying stupid things so you can look cool to 18yar olds I want you to write

30-year-old Spencer a letter and I want

you to live in to that got it I can do

that cool man hey I was 28 when I filed

bankruptcy I'm 63 now and I'm a

multi-millionaire you're going to be okay son hold on we'll pick up and get

you dialed in this is the ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

you know it doesn't take a degree in

statistics to realize that this one

stinks 93% of undergraduate private

student loans are co-signed so when

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contact y refi at

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8442 Ramsey or the letter Y then

rey.com Ramsey

[Music]

open phones at 8825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money Dr John delone is my

co-host today John I I love the

suggestion as we're going into the break with the uh young guy to write him his

future self a letter I kind of almost feel like we all ought to do that like

there's just a there's something about what do you want to be when you grow up you know kind of thing yeah who do you

want to be I I just keep going back to

that conversation that was such a before

and after that I had with my wife when she asked like what do you want this house to feel like when you walk in from work and I was like well I want it to feel warm and I want to feel I want us to be laughing when I walk in not both

of us be so tense and then that started a conversation well then here's what's got to be different and I I just wonder

what I want it to feel like when I'm 40

when I what I to feel like when I'm 60 what do I want my relationship with my kids to be like and what do I have to do right now to live into that that's so

different than let's just get to the next day and the next day and the next day and you wake up and you're a 100 miles from your original destination I just love that idea of sitting down and being attentional um where do I want to

be man yeah because you just don't or

more important who do I want to be right you don't accidentally become good

things no you accidentally become bad

things and life happens and I get really

mad and I start to Spin and make a decision I don't do you've never done this but I find myself way over here and

it's just I I like the idea of of

55-year-old John going whoa whoa whoa

whoa whoa whoa like letting him yeah be

a little bit of a guide for me right yep

absolutely open phones at8 825-5222

I just bought a house um and I'm I'm

feeling a little bued remorse and I just

wanted to get y'all's take on our financial situation to see if there's

some validity in what I'm feeling or if it's just you know I'm just in my head

on it um I'll give you a just a rough

kind of breakdown of our financial before you do that just tell me what the house payment is 3700 okay and what's your take home

pay in the house uh 180 a year roughly

9500 to 10,000 per

month uh no it's not something's wrong

I'm talking about take home after

taxes 180 is not

10,000 10,000 is10 you don't have

$60,000 worth of taxes on

180 you don't um well no okay so are you

taking out 401k and all that no I'm not

taxes only oh oh taxes only uh I don't

know the number off yeah so it's probably okay so how much are you

putting into your

401k um currently I'm 10 10% and my wife

is 10% okay all right so that's 18,000

so um that makes sense then all right

because your your take on pay not counting your 401k would be more like 14

okay something like that and um 401K

health insurance whatever else the crap's coming out of there because something's coming out of there but that's what it ought to be because 180 is 15 a month okay that makes sense so you'd be

at 13 and 3700 is not out of line then

that's my point I had to get to real take home pay for I sold your house and now we don't have to sell your house so that's good so my wife will enjoy that

um so you're the saver and she's the

spender you're the nerd and she's the

free spirit

yes and you you feel like you C you feel

like you caved and bought something you can't afford well we're good on the house the

only debt that we have in our names is a car and my biggest stress right now is D

I just I have 85,000 in the bank the car

I have I have 39 on my car write a check

and pay it off today okay I was going to go sell it and

buy beater just didn't know if it was smart to well you can still sell it later and buy beater if you want to but for today let's get rid of the

stress okay all right and you guys are

not doing a written monthly budget

called every dollar on the every dollar

app where both of you agree on every dollar before the month begins where

it's going and what its name is and if

you'll start doing that you'll feel much more in control okay it'll give you a lot of

it'll give you a lot of Peace it may

cause some fights cuz it may expose what

some people in the house are spending and it's not you

yeah yeah you're correct and we we we

did do the every dollar app and we're able to save around 2,200 a month but for some reason that just seems low and

I I got on Reddit which I shouldn't have done everybody was like oh your house Po and I just started freaking out now listen Reddit is not Reddit is not a

source of anything except trouble no Reddit is for if you're

feeling exceptionally well and you're like you know what I need in my life little depression then you should red rdit other than that if you get if you

get a a a medical diagnosis if you go to

Reddit you're dead by morning the only

thing that will kill you faster is is is

WebMD they'll kill you they'll kill you

within the

hour so seriously you're right so Daniel

Daniel what you guys need to do is you need to get above this and think about

your source of information and we are making fun of Reddit but it's not a good source okay and because the numbers

you're giving me nothing's out of control I think what I'm hearing is a

good guy who's a nerd who's very

responsible like me I'm a nerd um and

your your wife has not let up on the

spending you all are not in agreement you've been kind of you know swinging at

this whole money thing instead of actually making it dance getting it in

line and making every dollar dance and

both of you being in agreement paying off the car and and then I think you're

going to have a lot of Peace the numbers you're giving me are not stupid if they were you know I'd tell you yes sir Aaron can I ask you a few

other peripheral questions yes sir you got any

friends oh yeah that you go hang out

with once a week yes what's the state of your

health what's the state of my health

yeah you exercise you go for walks every

day oh yeah yeah work out six days a

week okay um eat eat clean what's the

state of your marriage great really good really good I

think my biggest I just want to be a good dad I want to be a good husband I want to lead my my family to to to

wealth and I didn't come from that so I

just strive for that there it is yeah you don't want to

screw this up so you're walking a tight RPP I get that good man good for you

that's a that's a good motivation as long as it doesn't take it so far you can't sleep at night that's right I'm

going to send you building take you to Reddit yeah yeah yeah exactly I'm going to send you building an unanxious life I want you and your wife to go through that book together yeah and then you guys jump on every dollar they app and get it going to and make sure make sure you get this stuff dialed in cuz I think you're there I think if you get 100%

alignment with her using the budgeting

process called every dollar that's going

to and you're probably 85 right now okay

if you get 100% control and command over

the dollars and you're probably 90% on

that okay and you pay off the car um

then you're going to and you start doing the ramsy stuff the rest of the way and quit ishing it then then I think you're

going to find an immense flip from the I

I think that little bit of lack of alignment and and then this

tremendous drive to be a good guy is is

where your disconnect is your dissonance

yeah and and yeah his body put a GPS pin

in money worries and so it's just he's

got a new big debt and he's got a kid and it's and his body sounding all the alarms just it's going back to those ratios and you and I've talked about that offline those are just important things I'm doing it right we're safe I'm

doing good I'm doubling up on my payments when I can I'm taking over time when I can I'm getting the stuff done

and um you slowly practice that yeah but

um uh uh when you do something that your

inner voice the holy spirit's telling

you not to do

um and

um then don't be shocked that you're

stressed right exactly so when you buy a

house while you have a $39,000 car debt

and you knew you shouldn't don't don't be shocked that It's upsetting right or

one step further if your parents were

screaming at each other growing up over their house payment even if you put 50%

down and you buy a house expect your

body to feel a little tense that's okay I know that I have to Outsource that cuz when I get emotional I get real emotional and I get real I start making

Choice decisions fast and I get a friend

or two or I get somebody that I trust to say okay I'm about to do something uncharacteristic I'm about to sell my house be the spot is this wise and then

you can get some exhale in your life and they'll go no I got your six you're you're doing good that's it's helpful that's what the show is right yeah when things are incon when you do things that are inconsistent with what you believe

people in John's World call that dissonance there's a disconnect your per

your actions are perpendicular your belief 100% time you get

stressed so George we talk a lot about

identity theft and we take calls from

people that do but yours actually got

stol well don't say it with that much happiness Dave it's true gosh I do not

recommend it if you can avoid it at all costs and that's when I was much younger I had worse hair and a negative net worth but I worked at Ramsay at the time

and so I was covered by Xander ID Theft

Protection so thanks Dave for covering all of us here absolutely well one thing

Xander helps us do that so it's a great benefit for the team but it's a great benefit for everybody because Jeff Xander and I have been working together for gosh 25 years we've been doing stuff

together since before there was an internet and so when the internet interet came on and identity theft became this real serious problem he and

I started talking about it and he went and figured out a way to build an identity theft protection for the ramsy

tribe that's how the whole thing started at Xander and uh it's the most Complete

because he customized it he custom built it from the ground up it's the most complete and cost effective protection

out there it's the best identity theft out there yeah I was raised by the internet as a millennial Dave and it's scary knowing how many websites are out

there with my information so Xander ID theft they bundle all the Cyber tools I

need to protect my identity they've got VPN encryption 24/7 customer and

Recovery Services and even home title

monitoring so even if your ID does get

stolen they help you like they did Me by

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up to $2 million in protection for

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a big deal so guys you can't go without

ID Theft Protection in today's world

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Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my

co-host today well John it's finally

happened my 35e stellar career has been

reduced to selling T-shirts finally we

get some ramsy cool gear dude I thought

I thought I was um an important author

and now I sell t-shirts so we have better than I

deserve t-shirts um finally we have food at home

is the T-shirt that's a great t-shirt I

got that one that t-shirt says better than I deserve and some cool uh

sweatshirts that say debt-free I guess I

should hold them up for you YouTube people yeah cuz you two people need

debt-free where there it is right there

okay so model it Dave Model come on do

your Vana White Dave come on buddy and

uh I'm drinking out of my own uh better

than I deserve Yeti because God knows I

didn't have enough yetis so I needed

like they they breed like rabbits in my

cabinet theyed everywhere and then we

got our version of the um Stanley Cup

thing over here whatever that is is that they live like no one else yeah but it's the what do they call what are the women call that thing the Stanley it is Stanley yeah that's the brand Stanley Cup I was thinking hockey for a minute but yeah my brother-in-law works on the rail road and he's had a Stanley for 117

years and his daughters were like Dad we

want Stanley and he goes like this and they all went oh he does he's got the

real green on Dad the real ones dad's

got it going on made by Al Aladdin I

think it was yeah so anyway you've been

asking for the ramsy merch shirts tumblers hats uh better than I deserve

hat yep t-shirts yetis uh um yep you got

them we got food at home I can't believe

that one's popular but you're wearing that one you said huh yeah I like that one cracks me up yeah okay so you've got

a story the world needs to hear you can kick off some conversations I'm not

crazy I'm just getting out of debt and

uh it's kind of fun and these it's high

quality you know the new soft kind of t-shirts yeah that all feel like pajamas

now yes everything's you know the old scratchy cotton t-shirts are kind of gone these softy ones are yeah well it's

yeah it's it's it's fun I'm glad we're

doing it listening to you sell clothes is one of the funniest most awkward moments of my professional life I'm just saying it I'm I'm going you know yeah

ramsy Solutions changed my life I bought

a hat from them oh yeah that just I will

work so hard to get an underwear endorsement from somebody just so you have to pitch it not a chance it's amazing just so you have to pitch it

there we go all right uh ramsy

solutions.com store check out all the

new merch it's awesome it is actually

high quality merch I hope we're charging a lot for it cuz it's just embarrassing

that we're doing it so anyway fantastic

hey for years people have been showing up with their homemade they make their own that's true that's true good stuff

that's yeah that's not on me though no

this is on me n this is good happened on

my watch right here this good well it

allows people to be a uh we say it all

the time like we don't we don't do big

$400 million sponsorship like word can

be a walking billboard for us they are like they don't have to say anything if you got a little social awkwardness just be drinking out of your better than I deserve Yeti that's right we go coffee

by the way or where your debt-free cuz

who at the mall doesn't want to know what your net worth is that's important to just anounce it I

see put some sweet tea in the yeti and

go for a walk here we go yeah that's what's in your sweet tea for sure yeah

all right Daniel's in Detroit hey Daniel

what's up oh a lot of debt how can we help sir

well um gonna be having a baby soon like

two months yay and yeah um I've been

fighting every month trying to get

myself back on track I fell behind on bills a few months ago and I haven't gotten anywhere with it I'm just over

$200,000 in debt and I'm trying to

figure out what my best options are to

get back ahead what kind of debt is the 200k bro

I've got 63,000 in a house I've got two

cars and about how much on car one how

much on car one 19,000 how much on Car

2 uh 15,000 okay all right that was

cosigned on that one I'm I'm sorry I say I co-signed on

on the second one but uh for who C uh my

wife well yeah like if you have a baby

with somebody you can buy a car with them too it's okay all right and so um yeah you'all have made a human you can share a checking account all right and so the um all

right so so that for that's 34 so you

only got a little bit of mainly car debt and house debt right what's the other debt um I've got 6,000 uh between credit

card and uh tools yeah tools what do you

do for a living avionics Tech okay and what's

your household income sir um about it's about 50,000 right now

um for a while uh it went way down um I

had to drain my savings account and everything going um the hours I was lacking in

hours at work um and then my wife um she

ended up getting really sick for a

little bit and was out of work um but she's finally back to work but uh

there's no savings account left fall back out so so between the two of you both of you

working you make $50,000

yes okay yeah she's back uh she's only

part-time right right now okay because I

was under the impression avionics techs made more money than that yeah I it may be higher um I'm just

kind of giving a rough estimate um

things are looking better and I'm working more hours um I'm bringing in you work on

airplanes dude right yeah yeah okay all

right when are you making an hour

uh 30 an hour okay how many hours a week

are you getting um I'm finally back to about 40

right now and I'm trying to push for 50

to 60 okay you're making more than

$50,000 a year okay you're doing your ma

you're doing your math wrong okay yeah

maybe that's helpful but but between uh

hours going down temporarily and her being sick and now a baby coming the stress of all that you're just you're'

been out of control and all the money is

in total chaos is that right

yeah absolutely seems like I'm just getting my paycheck and then it's completely gone and we still don't have bills paid that we need to what does what does she do for a living she's hair

styles okay all right cool all right

well here's the thing that I know um I

know that if the two of you sit down together tonight with the TV

off after dinner breathe and start

writing down what you've got coming in

right now and what you could have coming

coming in in the future you can see your way to getting these two straightened out whose car is the $199,000 car nine

good what are you what is it

worth I'm real upside down on that one

uh I was going to sell it not too long ago and I checked into it and it's Blue booking at about 8,000 right now H

that'd be trade in

yeah okay uh trade in they were saying

five what' you do tear it up zer a bunch

of negative equity into it

nope I did not what is it uh it's a

Chevy Silverado of

2012 okay Chevy Silverado do not get

that far upside down without some con

some other piece of circumstance involved you've torn it up there's extra

miles uh or you rolled negative equity

from the deal before into it nope I

didn't have a car loan before oh wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute is this a high interest rate loan

yes yeah okay 19,000 is not your payoff

balance 19,000 is the balance on the

account there's a difference on a highin

subprime loan they book it on top total

of payments 19,000 is your total of

payments if you take a check over there today and pay them off it's more like

15,000 okay so you need to you need to

call them and ask them not what your account balance is but what your payoff is today so you're not nearly as upside

down as you thought you were so that that I knew there's something wrong with that math okay now uh so here's the

here's the here's the prescription for

this the great news is you feel the

pressure cuz you're a good dad going to

be a good dad of a baby coming and

that's going to make you guys sit down and get control of this and not spend

any money except food lights and Water

Shelter and get caught up and oddly

enough sir you make enough to do all of

those it's very possible and don't count

that more Mortgage in your debt right this second let's worry about those bills and those debts and we'll get that stuff squared away first thing I want to do is be current and in control and

you're not that

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[Music]

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[Music] [Applause]

guys thanks for joining us here on the Ramsey Show Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality bestselling author is my

co-host today open phones at

88255 22 25 if you like this show we can

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change the algorithm in these different platforms and causes them to promote us

and um and they do it for free because you are telling them we're awesome because you're awesome so thank you thank you for doing that Lisa's in Portland Oregon hi Lisa welcome to the Ramsey show thank you

um I husband passed away unexpectedly a

couple months ago and he was kind of in charge of all of our monies and stuff

and I'm going to get through this call without crying so no you're not cuz I'm

not yeah you don't have to you're good

um so how old are you I'm 54 and we've

been married for next month would be 36

years what happened to him Hun he just

went to sleep I guess and didn't wake

up what was his name oh Troy well we can

all be envious of that methodology can't

we yeah yeah yeah that is one thing I'm

at peace with yeah he liked to be home and here he was there it is just like

that wow I'm so sorry so you got baby

you got any babies at home I got three

grown children that are all married good

good so it's you and and you said you

you're up in the air on the money stuff then right yeah yeah so he he did set me

up I'll be okay but I just don't know what to do with everything and do I pay

my house off with life insurance that I got how much life insurance did you

get I have um right now I have

500 and what right now I think I'm end

up with yeah then I then I'll have I

think another 100,000 but and then in

monthly I think I I added it up and I think I should be get at least 7,000 a

month boy I love your

husband I know so do I Troy what a great

job Troy did so bad when we were young

yeah that that we he just said no way we

got to turn it around so we did yeah

well and he left you set with having no idea that he was going away at 50 that's

pretty crazy that's young yep completely

I know every day I live that looks younger oh my gosh um the

um all right so you only owe on your

home what do you owe on it I owe 240 okay and do you

work I do not work okay but you got

$7,000 a month coming in mm for Life

where's that coming from that's going to

be for life what's that from military ah

wow and then he was um he also from his

he was a police officer guys are I have that retirement

too this dude's amazing huh what a great

guy oh my gosh yeah all right so call

the salt of the earth yeah wow uh um

okay so let me play pretend I'm just look you have any other debt um I have two credit cards that are

about $12,000 okay all right and I own my cars

though so nothing else if you didn't

have a car payment and you didn't have any credit card debt I mean you didn't

have a house payment and you didn't have any credit card debt and I think you can

make it on 7,000 a month don't

you definitely or you're gonna get on a

written budget so you don't screw this up yes okay because people can screw this

up oh I know okay so that's what's

scaring you that's what's scaring you're I don't want this is all Troy did such a good job and I don't want to mess it up that's what's bothering you am I right

yes it's totally it good good okay

that's a good motivation I don't want you to live in the terror of that because I want to give you the information so you are doing it right uh

but but if I had you on a detailed written budget monthly where you knew

that you were easily living on 7,000 000

which you should easily do with no house payment oh yes okay yep you cut up the

stupid credit cards and never borrow money for anything ever again say I

promise Dave I promise on that one Dave

so we're not going to have any debt and we have a paid for house and we got

$350,000 to invest and we have $7,000 a

month coming in am I missing

something no that's a pretty strong

position I think I think you and Troy did a good job here's the one Lisa to

inject a question here to you but Dave I want I'm asking it to you too Lisa is

there a chance that in six months When the Smoke Clears you want to go live by some of your grandbabies um no I'm GNA stay in the

house um I have three grandbabies close

to me here and then I'm having a new one

great in in Montana so okay awesome

normally I tell somebody don't do anything for six months don't pay off just sit but this is where you want to be this where your family is where the little ones are this is your home right oh yeah that's I'll add to that question

then I'll let go ahead and be real uh

tacky okay you said he died in his sleep

in the home yes okay are are you GNA be okay

living there then yes okay he's here okay okay all

right have you gone through the clothes

yet or anything nope it's stayed forever

okay so what here's what I'm gonna tell you and you're not going to believe me but I'm just going to tell you that's

about 98% of the people like you have

had the blessing and honor to sit with first couple of months out that's that's

and it's all good and there's no rush

okay okay okay but in nine months two

years four years we'll see right and

that's not you don't solve for that right now yeah the longer it goes the

weirder it is that you still got the clothes okay

but today is fine today's fine yeah

today's great 27 years from now if those

clubes are still hanging there that's an issue okay I'm just saying but but today

today you're fine yeah just let it go

it's part of your grieving it's part of your grieving and you're you're strong lady comt hey and you did get through this without balling good for you and I

almost did I only had one little tear but I cry out Apple Beast commercials so

um okay okay can I ask you one more

thing uhhuh um and this is not money

related I grew up in the home of a police officer too okay oh okay there is

an extra layer

of and I still feel it my dad's in his

70s and I'm in my mid-40s

and there's still a level of when I get around my dad I just exhale because policemen walk around as

though everything's GNA be okay yes exactly I want you to make sure

you have somebody to call because you're

going to lean on a crutch that's not there anymore he's in your heart but

he's not going to be there in that restaurant he's not and you know he would always sit up against the back of the room and now you're gonna right so he's got all those little things that you always had that extra layer of

everything's going to be okay and your body's going to feel like that's gone CU

it is okay cuz it's gone and I want you to have somebody you can reach out to yeah are you in a good church

Lisa yes good okay here's what we're

going to do here's what we're going to do I've been doing this 35 years and

I've sat with people exactly where you are hundreds and hundreds of times and

you and I just went through the numbers and everyone listened to us go through them your numbers are just fine you're

just fine you were married to a

wonderful man who did a Wonder job

making sure you were going to be okay and you are okay I would pay off my house I'd pay

off my house and I'd get on a written budget and I'd pay off those credit cards and I would cut them up and I'm

going to put you into Financial Peace University so you learn how to handle

money so you feel confident in this

subject area going forward okay and I'm

going to have you sit with a Ramsay coach that's been trained by us at my

expense you're going to pay nothing for any of this okay oh okay okay CU we're

we're people of faith and our book tells us to take care of Orphans and

widows and and we and we go by the

book okay all right thank you all right

you hang on and we'll have uh we'll have

the team pick up in there and get you signed up for financial peace and get you with a coach you're going to be fine honey you're in really good

shape this is my dream Dave yeah hey

guys here's the deal This Is It she just

told you what it means when you put life

insurance in place have a will in place

and have your pensions lined up and so forth to make sure that your family's taken care of it's how you say I love

you now the rest of you that are listening to this get your butt and

gear and get over Xander insurance and

make sure that you're Troy cuz all of

you ought to be Troy this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

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bro brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

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today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships the phone number

is 8825 5225 Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality host of the Dr John deloney

show and uh author of a couple of number

one bestselling books the latest building a non anxious life he's my

co-host 88255 225 Auburn Alabama Ashton is calling hi

Ashton what's up hey how are y'all better than we

deserve how are y'all we're good I'm so

happy y'all took my question because we really need some help with this we'll give it a shot okay so me and my husband were

25 and a year ago we purchased a camper and

a truck because the payments on that

were going to be cheaper than what our apartment was going to be which was going to be almost $3,400 and now we're stuck with a camper

and truck and we're going through baby steps and we're trying to figure out if it's worth keeping to pay down until it's out of the upside down or to sell

and then pay on the upside down do you still live in it or uh no we do not my

mom has a rental house that became available so we live in the rental house

now so the plan that it was cheaper was

not executed well it's not cheaper if you

didn't need now you just have a camper payment yes now we just have a camper

payment which we are renting it out

currently um as of like an Airbnb

vacation and it's paying for it but

we're worried when Summer's over MH if

if it's not I just don't want to have

that what if if it doesn't get paid for so we how much how much do you owe on the camper

115,000 good gosh holy

Jesus it's it's like an apartment on

Wheels it has a washer and dryer a size

bed it's it's a massive fifth wheel God

what do you all make a year um last year together we made I

think 145,000 I'm a hairstylist and he

at the time was a firefighter paramedic

and and y'all are 20 did you say

24 or yeah we were 24 and they loaned

you $115,000 on a camper I deprecia I don't

know how that was possible because we

couldn't get a house no one would loan

us a house or get get us a mortgage for

a house with me being a hair stylist and

my income fluctuating wasn't a fixed income I love you you're like you're the

dumbest smart person I've talked to today I'm trembling to ask this question

have you figured out what the actual value of the camper is today the actual

value of the camper is 90,000 and you

owe one5 yes 115 so you're 25 in the go yeah

but if you go to Camping World and then want to like buy it back from you it's

they offered me like 63,000 I'm sure

they did and the Camping World sold you this crap yes I did okay and now I I I I know

the news is going to get worse but I have to just keep going how much do we owe on the

truck the truck is

50,000 I'm laughing with you not at you

Ashton no no I'm laughing at myself too

because had get and have you priced the

truck's current

value his trade in value when we talk to

a dealership was 42,000 I believe okay

so you can get close to what it's worth if if you private sell it or close to what you owe if you private sell it cuz

trade in value doesn't work okay do you

guys have any

money like saved up like money yeah yeah

we went we're in the baby steps we had the emergency fund saved up and now we're just dump money credit card you

have $1,000 okay yes and then we're just

dumping all the extra money we have into

credit cards to get them finished how much do you have in credit card

debt um

total 7,000 okay good all right um my

car your car is what my car is 10,000

okay okay good okay all right um and I

assume you've been so far paying everything on time and so your credit's probably Stellar yeah our credit is still good

thankfully it's still very good okay um

the longer you wait to sell the camper

every day day that you wait the spread

between what you owe and its value gets

wider agreed mhm the value is going down

faster than the loan balance agreed yes

yes sir so we don't want to

delay we want to sell the camper as soon

as we possibly can sell it without giving it away to camper world or

whatever they're called I don't want to go over there again but but at 63,000 no

we're not doing that but if we can get

90 for it or 89 or

92 or

85 the sucker's

gone okay so get it up for sale

today and then you're going to have to go to the credit union where's this loan

is it Camping World gave you the loan

too yes it's through a liant credit

union I believe of course it is

yeah of course it is that's who makes

loans like this um they're prob not

going to be any health but contact them

and ask them if you can sign a note for the difference unsecured so you sell it for 90 you sell

it for 90 you owe 115 you're going to have a $25,000 note with a liant if you

did that otherwise you got to go to your

credit union or your local bank and get them to loan you $25,000 and do it like a personal loan

yep you're yeah you know all we're doing

is reducing 115 to 25 that's a good

move yes okay and that's not $ th000

payment like we're making now exactly

and we're going to sell his truck as

soon as we can get close to what is owed

on it so put it on Craigslist and put it

on other stuff and um and because you

know we we can get a vehicle down closer

to your vehicle that is doable and then

of course we're going to clear those credit card so now if you're making 145

and you owe 25 and you owe 10 on your

truck and seven on credit cards and a

little bit on some kind of car we get for him or truck we get from him like

10,000 uh we can clean that pretty quick

you could be out of debt we're already down a th000 in two weeks yeah but you

could be out of debt completely if you'd

make those moves sell his truck in the camper uh by the end of summer if

they're gone at a reasonable price um

and that way the hole is not too big on either one of them that you got to pay back um but you could be debt free in 18

months that would be awesome but that's

living on beans and rice rice and beans

yes no more pipe dreams absolutely cuz this was a pipe

dream like drugs were in the pipe pipe

yeah we smoked this pipe

dream but it sounds crazy to do a $3,400

apartment too like I you tra that that

compared to the truck and the camper the

$3,400 apartment is freaking lights out

genius compared yeah all right think

about it this way think about this way Ashton at 34 was about you would have

paid about 40 Grand this year in rent in

this apartment yes you're hoping to sell

this at a loss to where to minimize your

loss to 25 to $30,000 to pay off yeah so

there it is you You Paid It Anyway You Paid It Anyway you just didn't get to live in an awesome apartment yeah instead you were on a apartment on

wheels from Camping

World Dave it's so great I can't I can

feel you try not to laugh right next to me I'm just $200,000 appreciating they say in Auburn

Alabama bless your heart bless this is

the Ramsey [Music]

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thank you for joining us America we're glad you're here Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my co-host today today's

question of the day comes from Tracy in

Texas all right Tracy asks my husband

and I have been married for over 20 years and we have six children together

he is a high functioning alcoholic and

he's emotionally abusive last week

things escalated to the point where I had no choice but to call the police and have him arrested I filed for divorce

the next day we make a combined

$320,000 per year but live paycheck to

paycheck and have $0 in savings our only

asset is the equity in our home we cannot afford a divorce and he has promised to make me pay for his arrest I

feel like I'll be forced to let him come home because I don't have any other financially realistic option I earn six

figures on my own but I'm worried about how I'll feed my kids and keep the mor

mortgage current I know I need the four

walls first but I'm overwhelmed and can't do this alone

okay first thing by definition he's not

high functioning right yeah yeah yeah

he's not functioning uh he might have

been high functioning in the past but not now yeah um and so wow and good for

you for having the courage to call on him man

um yeah if he got arrested and there's

there's some parts left out of here um

yeah it was no longer emotional it was not emotional wasn't just emotional abuse if you get arrested they don't arrest you for yelling yeah but good for

you good um so when you say we can't

afford a divorce but I earn six figures

Dave tell me if I'm wrong here but it seems to be a lot of chaos and a lot of

mess here if you earn six figures you

can go get um a relatively nice

apartment and you can go you can figure

out the house stuff later yeah but you

can go get a place where you're safe yeah go go around a

house and um

put the house up for sale and um tell your divorce attorney

that um they get paid when the house

sells and they'll be happy with that

because there's plenty of equity there and I mean if you have scratched together a few thousand dollars or something to put down a little bit of a

retainer that'll be fine um but um

here's a thing I'm this is you you you

can speak into this cuz more your area of expertise dealing with trauma and dealing with these things but um we know

I knew this before John came here but now John has Dr John with his PhD and

counseling has reaffirmed this I know

that um there's a high correlation between

money control extreme levels of control

by the man in the house and domestic

violence using her as a punching

bag and part of the narrative that is

used there is you can't make it without

me I make your life miserable you can't I you

know you can't survive you can't survive

you can't survive and after 20 years she

believes it even though she can go to work and someone's going to pay her six figures for skill set here but she can't

do it home that's right she still thinks he has power right I'll make you pay

yeah to which John and I are almost chuckling to ourselves because this is a

guy who's so out of control he's in jail

he ain't going to make anybody pay right

he's not exactly a threat he's what's known as a bully that got punched in the knows and most of them are absolute

wusses once you punch a bully really

hard they just sit down and

cry and moan and that's what this guy is

yeah he he's he's a coward yeah and so

uh cuz his only chance his only chance of upping someone is his wife this is a

coward and so he's not as big a threat

darling as your psyche which has been

reconditioned over 20 years tells you

yeah Agreed 100% % so I mean I'm seeing

domestic violence language in this am I WR all over this yeah and sometimes it's

even hard to write that down it's hard

it's hard to write it down yeah um so

yeah you earn six figures go get yourself and by the way your life your

Li uh standard of living will change

dramatically you're going to have to let that go go get a small house the

smallest house as you can afford with six kids and it's not going to be fancy

it's going to have for mic countertops and all who cares you're going to have

safety in your home for the first time in in in 20 years

and yeah tell your attorney that he you

get paid in the house sells and he's

going to have a high futin attorney uh

also no he doesn't he does have any money nobody's got any money well that's

true yeah he didn't have any cash either he's in exactly the same place she's in that's a good point I'm going to make you pay where are you getting the attorney's fees buddy yeah yeah so um

that he's just broke as she is so they

got a lot of equity that's it and they got a good income that's it so what I'm

going to do is start uh I'm going to get

out of the house and park in something

cheap and get the house sold with court

order with the attorney as soon as possible y like I mean fast like

blindingly fast not even as a part of

the divorce settlement just the money's paid into the court until the divorce is settled and then let the attorneys get paid out of that and then just make sure

that they don't keep it there for 5 years and they're the only ones getting the money right okay but uh but Bubba

Bubba has got no power here yeah he he's

he's at you know the only Power Tracy

that this guy has he has no Financial power he has no emotional spiritual uh

physical power the only Power he has is

between your ears and as if you quit the

day you quit letting him live there rentree is the day this whole thing turns over fast because John and I

aren't we're not intimidated by him and we can see real clearly exactly how this

is going to go down and you're going to come out of this just fine other than um

the healing that you're going to go through from the years of calling this a high functioning

alcoholic when in reality he hadn't been

high functioning if he ever was in a long long time and I want to speak to this um if this happens to be Tracy or anybody else

listening I

remember always getting a pat on the

back in my annual review because I was

in charge of a lot of Revenue and

expense accounts multiple millions of

dollars and we always came in under budget that was like a thing I was known for always going to l laying underneath that and my household finances were a mess

and I always felt a ton of shame that I could do it so well over here but when I got here I I wasn't a person of discipline and have any self-control or anything like that and so if this is you Tracy you're good at work you make six

figures but at home Everything feels chaotic you have to do the brave scary

hard thing and ask for help you got to

ask for help that's what fpus for that's what every dollar is for that's what our financial coaches here are for that's what your neighbor down the street is for that's what your minister is for you got to ask for help and say okay I'm

great at work here so much that they pay me six figures how do you make a checking account on your own how do you how do you do some of these basic things that you quote unquote should know but you don't know how to do it okay let's go get the help we need to do yeah and talk to your uh boss at work if you're making

six figures you may need a 10 grand

Advance on pay to uh to get the new

place deposits and all and to get a

little bit to for an attorney to get started but um

uh can I

AFF I feel like I will be forced to let

him come home no nope I thought I saw

that in there let me go back to that he

wants you to feel that way there's

nothing in the law that says that

there's nothing I mean you need to get a

restraining order and you know you need

to make him pay for inflicting this on

you and six kids yeah and it's not a matter of Vengeance it's a matter of boundaries safety and safety

and no come home by the way he could

come home but it might be in an empty house where cuz you moved to a rental right and the house he's living in is up for sale by court order yeah and that's

where I want this thing to go as fast as possible and what about the kids and what about the kids let me tell you the kid the only way the kids are going to be okay to is when you are that's right

that's right having a dragon living inside your house is infinitely less

safe than them having to move in the middle of a school year or in the sum time or whatever yeah the dragon does not get to come home correct yeah nope

sorry sorry Dragon we discovered you're

a dragon who knew now you can't live

there what a mess yeah it's like you

know we thought you were a pet dragon

turns out you're a dragon it's it's amazing Dave uh you said it it's it's

you can be so in control over here and

somebody just beat you down for 20 years for so long you just believe you believe that story the story becomes the story you tell yourself and uh it's really

hard to change that narrative yeah it's tough so uh Tracy to use John's um

phrase your worth you are worth not being a punching

bag you are worth standing alone and

creating a new life that's full of peace

and you got to go do it it's going to be hard but it's going to be a lot easier than dealing with the dragon yeah this is the Ramsey Show

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Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at 8825 5

5225 well ramsy events are in full swing

around here we had a great event here last weekend with a Total Money Makeover weekend it was one one of the most fun events I've had in a long long time I

thoroughly loved it um it was a old

school tmmo stuff man and it was it was

a blast our upcoming money and marriage

event with Rachel Cruz and Dr John

delone sitting beside me just sold out

and it's in October so it's done next

week we have our brand and that means

you got fomo so get ready um next week

we got a brand new virtual event and the

good news is there is no seating limitations when you're doing things virtually so ultimate number of living

uh unlimited number of living rooms out there to watch this in uh Dave Ramsey's

investing Essentials on uh two nights I

will be doing the not the same thing

each night is individual the second night I'll give you a hint is mainly real estate and I'm going to open up my

personal Playbook of how I personally invest and the process I use the

principles I use the actual things I put

money in and the people that I run around with some many of which have hundred million net worth or greater what are they really doing not what your

broke Tik Tock influencer living in his

mother's basement is doing uh but we're

going to actually show you like real people real rich people on what they really do um and it's not flip this

house I'll just go ahead and give you a h ahead of time so um yeah so anyway

it's going to be fun and it's actually so like crazy like bazillion of you have already bought tickets thank you tonight virtual event May 2122 which makes it

next week it's 199 bucks get your

tickets to that Ramsey solutions.com

events and the cruise is almost sold out

for next march the Ramsey Cruise uh

there's going to it's March 22nd through 29th next year um it's all the Ramsey

personalities uh plus bunch of celebrities going to be on there with us and uh so it's going to be a lot of fun it's the live like no one else so if you're baby step four or Beyond

and you want to come we'd love to have you uh we don't want you spending money on a cruise when you're getting out of debt and building your emergency fund that's wrong so don't do that that's why it's called the live like no one else Cruise so that later you can live and give like it's the later part live and give like no one else Cruise so it's going to be a lot of fun and there's a

handful of handful of sweets left but or

not sweets rooms I think the sweets are all gone but the um I think it's like

80% sold out right now and it's only

been up for like four weeks so and I heard that you're uh you've challenged

the boat to a cannonball competition in

the big pool I'm excited about that Joe

levit told me that uh you're going to be leading the way it's going to be awesome really yeah yeah he said you have a big onesie uh swimsuit that you're instead

not not so the speedo rumor went away

that's good yeah that's good okay that

got uh got they took a company vote but

no not not doing any of the above but your big on the above um it's gonna be awesome the above I don't know where these people are hanging out together

and what they're ingesting while they're having these discussions but not doing it gummy bear breath not doing it just

saying not happening not those kind of

gummies all right uh Erica is in Kansas

City hi Erica what's up hi I was wondering where does a big

home renovation project fit into baby

steps would it be like baby step

3B could be it could be 456 probably 456

something like that um what how large a

project you want to do yeah we have a house that is um it's

kind of like a two and a half bedroom

house and we need more bedrooms for our

kids as they are getting bigger okay W you sell it and buy

one well we have land and land prices

have almost quadrupled here so you like

the you like the piece of ground you're own yes okay and how many acres have you

got 30 oh that's nice very cool okay and

what's the square footage of the two and a half it is 1,800 Square fet how old is

it over a

100 okay is there any

um historical value or family value to

that particular house no not at all push it

down push it down yeah be a lot

easier I've done I've done probably I

don't know 500 Renovations renovating

something that's 100 years old is my

idea of hell they don't build them like they

used to thank

God we build so much better house

nowadays the pipes are bad the wiring is

bad the roof is bad the lumber that was

put in there was rough on it's twisted like a turkey toe and oh God no it just

it's all but when you get done with this

you're just going to have a hundredy old house that's been patched up

again that's how you end up with two and

a half bedrooms we call them country

built houses people just keep adding crap to it and it just looks like a

looks like a lrin to get through it and

um just keep adding another room out there and add another room out there and so I would consider that now so uh you'd

build a 3,000 what's your household income

110,000 good okay so you could just get

a construction loan move into an apartment for a year or move into a rental or get an old $5,000 trailer and

put on the property while you build and live live in that crappy thing and while

you build the house whichever I don't care and then build a house that's what

I would do you do whatever you want but

if you're going to spend almost you're going to spend about the same amount of money a lot more trouble and end up with a substandard product if you renovate so um but go ahead and renovate

if that's if that's the game y if y'all want to do that that you're talking about spending couple hundred grand

though aren't you uh this particular project we are

thinking under

75,000 what are you

doing there is an attic

space and it would be convert making it

livable had somebody look at the

structure doesn't fall into the basement

spoken within we've we don't have a

basement we have spoken with an engineer

that and it'll hold it with some reinforcements

yes here we go okay all right I I I rest

my case um but the uh the defense rest

but the uh um so yeah

um yeah if that's what you guys want to

do uh but I would do that it to answer your original question four five to six

um so would you pay off the mortgage

before you did something like that no

I'm P it's 456 I mean if you if you if you come up

you make a you make $75,000 in cash

renovation you want to buy something that's $75,000 in cash you want to do

that before you pay off your mortgage that's a 456 baby step four is 15% of

your income into retirement five is kids

college six is would pay off the house early you're going to reduce how fast you pay off the house um in order to

come up with 75,000 cash in order to do

this renovation I personally think the

whole TR financial transaction would also be easier if you took out a

construction loan to build a house where

that one was and um made that your new

mortgage on a 15-year fixed and when you

move into it you've got a solid product

and that's the direction I would go and it's just then all of that sitting at baby step six you're just going to pay off the house so the renovation is rolled into the mortgage the way I'm talking about because it becomes a new house and I think you'll end up with um

yeah I I you're you're probably going to

end up with more uh more of a mortgage

than your going your way well I know you will I know you will cuz I'm pushing down your house so uh but uh but you're

but you're going to be like $100,000 glad you did so um I think you need to

watch more HGTV Dave you don't have the

vision all she needs is $150,000 in

engineering have you really you know I

never watched that but I was actually in

a a waiting room the other day and they had that thing on and I was trapped MH

and I couldn't get away from it yeah the

people that are doing that stuff are the

most unusual humans have you noticed it

looks like something out of a zoo it

looks like a Star Trek bar a Star Wars

bar that's going to do a house renovation I mean there there's like like no there's I there's no like regular rednecks going in there and just renovating that would be no chip and

Joanna did that well chip and Joanna are pretty normal yeah I think that's your

that's your move dude redneck Renovations from what I've heard but but the rest I mean redneck Renovations you'd be a billionaire yeah I think

we're on to something Dave except that I

all you I don't want to do it you push the house over every time that'd be hilarious that's sh Dave just how we

going to fix this bedroom Dave push it over knock it over this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause]

[Music] so the guys in the booth have already launched the redneck Renovations show during the break hey here's what it is

it's a call-in show where people all over the country call George and uh

camel and Ken Coleman and uh ask them

plumbing and electrical and renovation

uh question two of the most inept people

that could possibly ever answer those questions on the planet great that's not there's nothing redneck about that that's just inep no it' be so fun it

would it would be incompetent but it

wouldn't be redneck that's not fun

redneck Renovations this is going nowhere Matts and Matt and Dana in Omaha

Nebraska hey guys how are you not too

bad Dave thanks for taking our call sure

how can we help well

so uh I've been I'm a farmer out here

and got in kind of hooked up with you

because I was sick and tired of my

terrible financial decisions for years

and years and years and years and I my wife and I have downloaded the

every dollar app and I think I'm going

to purchase the premium

tomorrow and one of the questions that I

have is my 17-year-old daughter Dana

who's on the phone with me now uh we

were talking about just college and we

don't have a college savings at all for her she's a junior just finished her

junior year today and she's like I gotta build

credit and I'm like I instantly was like

nope you need to get in touch with Dave

Ramsey so my as my wife and I begin this

journey of we don't have a horrendous

amount of debt the biggest thing that we need to do is control our money so where

I know where it's going so that's that's

the journey we are on and I don't want

my daughter to make the same mistakes that I did okay well that would be every parent

that's a good parent anyway um and um so

when a 17 year old and she's on the phone what's her name AA Dana okay so

when Dana says um I want to build my

credit um two years ago you would have

thought oh that's probably a good

idea uh probably yeah and and now you're

like going oh God Dave

Ramsey exactly that that is exactly what

I'm doing well and and here's the thing so

Dana Dana what happened is this the um

the Bible says be not

conformed to this world don't be like

everyone else because if you look at the statistics of average in America today

what you find is the average divorce is

caused by money fights and money

problems and money stresses uh if you

look at the statistics 70% of people are

living paycheck to paycheck if you look

at the statistics people who chase the

credit and debt game spend their lives

earning money for other people and giving it to them in the form of debt payments and that's your dad I'm sorry

that's that's her dad right there yeah

and and so that oh it's everybody I mean

it's normal so that's why we say don't

be normal don't don't be conformed to

this world if what this world is doing

isn't working why would you want to be one of them you want to be weird if if

normal is losing we want to be

successful we want to win then we don't

want to be normal if the group of

friends you're running around with are

uh going nowhere then guess what you're going to go nowhere because you're hanging out with them embracing the same set of habits patterns and behaviors that they embraced reading the same books which

are useless reading this watching the same useless movies and Netflix garbage

and so you know if that if that's what you want to be if you want to be normal

yes go build your credit score but normal's broke and normal's stressed and

so I think you don't want to be normal

um I think you've been lied to by a

normal culture that tolds you you have to have a credit score in order to become prosperous and successful and the

truth is the actual data tells us that it's the opposite of that and so that's

you know where we are then the second part of the equation is how am I going

to go go to college cuz Mom and Dad hadn't saved for college and um the guy

you're lucky because the guy sitting beside me has a PHD in higher education

and has served in several different

universities in the uh leadership team

in the administration of several universities around the nation and actually knows exactly what the college scene looks like um and I before I pitch

to him I will tell you that you don't have to go into debt to go to college uh

you do have to select a college you can

afford and there is no difference

between the data again what we're trying

why are we going to college we're going to college to become more successful and

to have a better quality life with the knowledge that we get it's not actually the degree that matters it's the knowledge and so we want to go get knowledge a and the truth is is that you

can pay $100,000 a year for the

knowledge or you can pay $112,000 a year

for the knowledge and the TR and and the

knowledge is basically the same so you

can get a degree in marketing for $100,000 a year at you know most

expensive universities in the nation or you can go to a State University and pay $112,000 a year and get a degree in

marketing and it's basically the same information and there's no data that says where you went to school CA you to be successful there is data that says

when you have more knowledge you have higher probability of being successful knowledge that's useful in the marketplace like a marketing degree or whatever that kind of thing so I would tell you that if you select a a a an

inexpensive school you're going to get a great education and you're going to work

while you're in school and that's going to give give you a great education I did John did most people do and um then then

you can come out with no student loan debt and probably your mom and dad since they're getting their crap together are going to be able to help a little John what would you say well I say Dana so wor what do you think about all

that um yeah okay

so my plan was to attend like a

community college and not a

university great brilliant because it's

just I've Been Told lot the university

is just not worth it and so well that's

not true it is sometimes but not always

depends on what you want to do and when you want to do it and how you want to do it and all that but if you've decided you can you can meet your short-term and

long-term goals right now starting at Community College amazing go for that's

the best that's the best deal on the market great for the first couple of years right yeah I think we just lost

them oh we just lost them well and and

so Dave while we're here here's the

thing

Mike Row we the three of us have talked about it it's there's a both and to this

there is a no one needs to go to college it's so stupid well that's not true that's not true I do not want to go to a doctor that didn't go to college I don't want an engineer bill in my house didn't go to college and does everyone have to go no they don't or does everyone have

to go to Every does everyone have to go to Harvard no God no so um some of the

most amazing people I know started in community college and I had lost student

graduates it started in okay back okay

Dana we're back with you I think in Community College all right there we go go we we somehow the call drops sorry

about that all right Dana we're back with you so you're talking about two years in community college and then maybe move off to University to finish it sounds like what are you talking about studying um no I'll do probably

four years at a community college and not move on to a university and a degree in what um I'm going into nursing okay

beautiful that's great wonderful

wonderful and then you got to go then you got to go to nursing school right

yes okay and you got to pass your board

but nursing is probably one of the best

uh career choices you can do out there because there's ever since I'm old and

ever since I've been doing this like 40 years there's been a shortage of nurses there's always a shortage and so you can

kind of pick and choose where you work and they'll pay you a lot and you can always get as much overtime as you want

yeah when your dad gets some weird itch from working on the farm he's going to call you and you can help him be right

he gets a rash that's undescribable rash

from tractor it's already happening

E Matt come on um but Dana listen

everyone in your world is telling you the only thing that matters is the car you drive is your FICO score is all this

it's nonsense man it's just nonsense and

I know it's hard when you're 17 to have three knuckleheaded old men telling you to do something else but if you like

you're at this weird Crossroads and you can go you can take a left or you can

take a right and one of these paths is going to be like just like Dave said everybody else and if you look around

everybody's broke or you can go right

and uh you can take another you can go the other direction Matt can y'all chip

in and help her pay for Community College I'm hoping okay well she's only

a junior I mean you're just now started getting your stuff straightened out I think you can I think you're going to be there because you said you didn't have a lot of debt you were just chaotic right

correct okay excellent so yeah I think

I'm I'm making that as a part of the thing now I will tell you Dana that if you're my kid I'm not going to help you

I'm not going to pay for part of your school if you turn around over here and doing something stupid yeah like going into debt or something okay so I'm not going to assist you in harming yourself

if I'm your dad but uh but if he can be

a part of the solution since you're being very wise about where you're going to school I think you should if he can

be I think it'd be fantastic that's perfect hey good call guys thanks for letting us preach at your 17-year-old this is the Ramsey Show

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show we help

people build well do work that they love

and create actual amazing

relationships Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author host of the Dr John deloney show is my co-host today open phones atle

8825 5225 Kim is in Atlanta hi Kim Welcome to

the ram show hey Dave and John thank you

so much for taking my call I watch you guys all the time and I love you guys well thank you I have a morage question

for you I'm 63 and I want to pay off my

mortgage like you always talk about but

I have a a 401k and I have Investments

but do I take that out and cash it in

some of it to pay off the mortgage or do

I just continue to try to pay over

what's your mortgage balance

um it's 100K okay and how much in your

non-retirement

Investments um 127 okay and you have an emergency fund

instead of that I've got um like 10,000 okay and

how much in your 401k um 500 plus okay I wish it was more

but it's not and then 63 are you still

working yes what do you

earn about 97 a year good for you what's

your what's your career plan on how long

you going to work I want to retire

instantly well I have a I also have a um

a booth in an antique mall okay but I

mean how how long do you plan on making

93 and adding to the

500 um a couple years I guess okay

65 you're thinking 65 okay yeah they

don't downsize me out okay so um if you

have an emergency fund proper and um

which you do and you take 100,000 out of

your non 401K money uh you should have

virtually no taxes on it there may be some capital gains depending on how that's structured okay uh and you pay

off your home mortgage that leaves you

basically with 500 Grand agreed M okay

at 63 if you add nothing to that and

it's invested in good mutual funds averaging 10% it'll be worth a ion when

you're 70 it's Ultra conservative right now so

I guess I need to rethink it because I was scared you know I was like Well everybody's losing money so I'm who's

everybody I've made a killing this past

year did you in a regular regular mut F

then you need to get with a good smart Vestor Pro and have this adequately invested I don't want you taking a bunch of risk get off the news but um get off

the news and quit and don't listen to

everybody they're a bad financial planning firm um the

um yeah let's um let's do that and uh so

again if you if you don't add anything to it and you're going to add two years

more of 401k contributions to it is what

we're plan is today right but but not

counting that two years that you're going to add to it which is going to be another 50,000 or so give or take um

then uh which you could easily do if you

don't have a house payment right so load that 401k up for the next two years and

and then count on it doubling about

every seven years the lump sum if it's

invested in good mutual funds averaging 10% plus okay so again a half a million

at 63 becomes a million at 70 at 77 is 2

million and uh that's if you're not

cashing it out to live on and I don't think you will be so I think you're in

good shape because I think you'll probably create enough uh Antique Mall

uh income to eat on and be leaving this

alone and letting it grow and so and the

house is worth what about um 350 okay so you're about

an eyelash away from already have a million dollar net worth way to go thank you well done yeah thank you

for your advice I was wondering you know should I just continue to try to you

know pay on the principal or should I take the money out and just go ahead and go for it I would go for it and and then

the thing that I think that'll do is it'll probably do two things one is I

want number one is I want you to start investing that old house payment immediately so you got more Investments

to offset I we're not trying to increase your monthly cash flow we're trying to you know use the money that would have been going to a bank let's put it into your account now the second thing is and

and this will be weird but you can you

can look back and write it down and look back five years from now see if it really happened I think that if they try

to rightsize or downsize you you'll make

a completely different decision or have

a different discussion in the negotiation with them uh if your house

is paid off then if it's

not true it it puts a little Swagger in

there to where you go you're going to

you you you're going to lay me off and I'm 63 uh you better get ready to write some

checks boys and girls I mean and you can

you can toy with them a little bit right

um but but if you kind of got a house payment hovering in the background you're not you're a little bit more mild

a little bit meaker do you have a is it

gut feel or is there some sort of Matrix

cuz I I I think about my mom who's in

her 70s if she was to call with that same question there's a balance between

I want you to have the least amount of risk exposure which so don't have a

house payment versus you're going to

have to pay bills on going um so how

much money right see saying balance if

she had 100,000 to her name I wouldn't do it okay so you wouldn't wipe yourself

out not at 66 not at 63 is a quarter

million okay is it 500,000 yeah I just I

want some kind of a substantial Nest Egg

depending on her situation sitting would you use 4% draw to like you make number

4% draw but the uh but the uh I'm I'm

just saying is there based on the standard of living

that this person's living in what's

their nest egg look like after we pay off the house okay okay now if they're

if they're used to making $40,000 a year

and the mortgage is $40,000 you know

that's a that's a different standard of living than she's living correct okay she's in a half million doll house or half million doll in savings $350,000 house and she making 100K okay okay so

I'm basing all of those things in there and I'm saying all right what's a person like that need in a nest egg to be

pretty comfortable after we pay off the house well she's going to have a half million left she so she's fine right you know if she had 400 she'll be fine she had 300 she'd probably be fine okay but if it gets down in there and she's at 200 is all that's left I'm kind of on the bubble at that point with her now if

you're making 40 and you're paying off $40,000 house you got 200 left that's a lot that's right you know so it's that

that's the ratio kind of thing I'm looking at is is the way I'm pulling that through but um and I always feel

it's it's it's under appreciated on

either side um I I I want to tell a

70-year-old dude if you don't have a house payment don't have a house payment like because no one can take it from you right you do you do want you want to get there and the other side of it is don't

yeah don't melt everything cuz if you melt everything you're one of those people that's house poor right and you're digging up the bushes to eat yeah you go but you got nothing to eat but you got to pay for house we don't want to get you there you're completely 100%

leveraged with Social Security which that's wobbly right that's real wobbly well I mean it's just not enough you can't have to buy Alpo to eat and so um

yeah we don't want to get there either but that's she's done a really good job she's in really good sh Kim Kim's done

good job Kim so well done salute this is

how you do it boys and girls so here's the thing that's the stuff you want to aim at cuz when you're 60 and she's 63 I'm 63 if your home is

paid for your largest line item in your

budget is taken care of for the rest of your life the expense is limited to almost to

taxes insurance for the rest of your life versus if you're a renter it goes

up every year for the rest of your life

or if you got a house payment you got a house payment every year for the rest of your life so this where we want to get away from is this rest of your life

stuff that's not good this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

sh [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thanks for joining us

listen no one wins at anything by

accident winning is a series of

incremental intentional max if you want

to get your body in good physical

condition it's a series of

incremental acts and none of them

involve a Big Mac right I mean we know

what we know that we know right if you

want to have a good marriage it involves

flowers there's a series of incremental

positive acts it involves other things a

lot more important than flowers but it even involves flowers my wife who detests flowers money being spent on

flowers because it's a complete waste

still Smiles every time she gets the

complete waste delivered to her front door okay so shut up about it but there

we go so there we go I mean there's a series of and money's no different if you're going to win with money we know

that the people that win with money are the people that tell the money what to do instead of wondering where it went they have what's known as a plan they

don't accidentally win that's why the

lottery is such false hope and why it

makes me so angry not from a moral

standpoint but when I know that 80s

something per of the tickets on the lottery are bought from poor into town

zip codes that's people that have been

sold false hope by their government and

in Tennessee that money is used to send rich people's kids to college which I

think is just a wonderful wealth transfer from poor people to rich people

take money from poor people and send rich people's kids to college and call it the lotto and everybody's happy

that's what we did in Tennessee it's gross what they did in Georgia so um

that's how bass Awards the whole idea is

so but winning with money is a series of

incremental acts that are intentional

with the money and that's a budget you

got to write it down you got to tell your money what to do you got to give every dollar an assignment and then make it freaking behave get a whip and a

chair and crack the whip you are a money Tamer like a lion tamer if you remember the old cartoons right and we're going to make

them make them get up on the little po Podium the whole thing make Peta mad we're going to do every bit of that right and so make the animal behave make

the money behave you are a money Tamer

that's your budget give every dollar a name that's why we named the world's best budgeting app when we started building it several years ago every dollar now every dollar also is incrementally better it gets incrementally better every month and

we're adding features to it we're adding things to it that make it better and better and better and better and better it is the world's best budgeting app

tens of millions of people manage their

money on this and if you want to download every dollar for free in the App Store you can and then you should

actually use it after you download it

downloading it doesn't count it doesn't

work by osmosis you got to open it up put your stuff in it sit down with your spouse and make it behave use the app

store use the Google Play or go to everydollar.com and get started for free

this is the Ramsey Show Kendall is in Charlotte North Carolina hi Kendall welcome to the show how can we help hey

thank you so much for having me um so my

husband wants to go back to PA school um

which is going to be like

$100,000 so I'm kind of just trying to

figure out like I've just finished saving up our emergency fund and was

kind of like getting ready to start paying down some of the debt that we

have um and I'm just trying to figure

out like how to best prepare for these

student loans we're going to have to take out like you know do I just keep trying to save as much as I can I don't he's also gonna have to um leave his job

in order to go back to school so we'll go down to one income so just trying to

figure out how to best prepare for that

well you're you're kind of new to this Ramsey stuff and he obviously doesn't

even care about this Ramsey stuff so

let's let's back up about 53 steps for a

second here what's your uh what's your

household income today um 110,000 and what does he do

today um he's an athletic trainer sports

medicine for what um athletic trainer

for sports medicine okay all right and

what does he make 50,000 okay and so you

make 50 and some change right uh yeah I

make about 60 I make a little bit more what do you do um I'm also an athletic

trainer that was a great Flex I mean I make 60 I make a little bit more well

well done yeah an athletic trainer that

flexes there we go so um the uh that's

perfect boom and um

so how much Deb have we

got um so we have uh we ow two uh

255,000 on the house I have 20 in

student loans um and then we owe 5,000

on our cars that's it yeah okay all

right so

um here's what I would tell you and and

the thing is this the way I answer

questions is what's going to put you guys in the best possible position in

every part of your life 10 years from

now and 20 years from now not 10 months from now right okay I really don't give

a crap about 10 months from now if

you're completely uncomfortable and you

hate me 10 months from now that's

perfect okay but if that makes you

completely the best place you've ever been in your life 10 years from now in

other words it's much like training um

you're going to have some discomfort in order to build some muscle

agreed the the tearing and the lactic

acid and so forth am I on to something

there um yeah yeah my metaphor is

working is all I'm saying and so yeah um

the um so what I would say is being a PA

is an excellent career choice completely

endorse his dream there's not a

chance in the heavens that I would go

into debt to do it no

way oh I'm not kidding it's not a

laughing matter I really wouldn't yeah the best life you can have

is for him become a PA and figure out a

way if you'll listen for a minute that

we don't go into debt to do it the first

step is to pay off the debt that you have the second step is to build an emergency fund and then the third step

is while he's looking for scholarships

and while he's applying for Grants and

while he's talking to his employer who might need a PA talking to some hospitals in the area who would hire him immediately as a PA might even put him

on now as an OnStaff sports trainer and

they might have a scholarship program

for employees who knows there's lots of

ways to get people to pay for your education mhm and um and or save some of

it after you don't have $25,000 in debt

that delays him starting PA

school but it doesn't delay it a decade

it delays it two years uhhuh or a year depending on how

many scholarships he can find and grants he can find but the chances I'm going to

tell you to sign up for $100,000 worth

of hell called student loan debt is zero right

that's zero I I love you too much to

want you to do that I don't want that

for you that's living a dream in such a

way that you turn it into a

nightmare so so you're saying try to

save up as much as possible prior to him

going and then try and see and try and

see where we can get the grants and some employment help yep and or future

employment who's going to hire in the future listen there's such a shortage right now people want Pas and Pa such a

solid degree field that you can get some

help it's there believe me we work in this stuff every day and and oh by the

way where you become a PA which school

he goes to does not

matter right the percentage of people

that walk into your office when a PA and ask you where you went to school before you touch my body is

zero it's zero how many people ask you

went to school before you did sports medicine before you stretched them

zero none they don't care about your

dadgum little fancy School title all

they care about is do you know your

stuff right yeah I'm old I've been to

doctors my whole life never asked one where they went to school John can you

what's the range on PA schools John's got a PhD and higher ed I mean you don't

have to spend 100 Grand do you

conceivably no you can there's a million

different schools does he already have one in mind yeah so we're we're trying to do a

local one you know we don't we don't want to relocate um so there's like

three or four he can apply to okay um

and they kind of range from like 80 to

$10,000 there you go so you've already knocked off $20,000 which in y'all's

life is a year of your life of saving

money right so find the 81 and like Dave

said go Beat the Streets maybe he goes

and goes to a community college and gets a nursing certificate first and then they'll help pay for the transition from nursing school to PA school there's all different other avenues you can take to get here but Dave's right once you decide you're not going to borrow money and do it the stupid way all of a sudden

some of the smart ways start sticking out in front of you it's amazing Yeah scratch around and do this right kiddo

this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

Dr John delone Ramsey personality is our

co-host today thank you for joining us

America we're so glad you're here we

invite you to drop by and see us here at at Ramsay we are about 12 mil south of

Nashville in a little town called Franklin which is absolutely

fabulous and uh lots of people come by

the Ramsey Solutions headquarters there's a big Lobby where you can have

some homemade cookies and coffee at our

expense we love treating you we like

having you come in here and it smells like Mama's Kitchen not Corporate

America and uh we want you to go through

and see the stuff and hang out and and

we do the show on the glass from 1 to 4

every day central Time Monday through

Friday and you're welcome to drop in Dr

John does his show on the glass in the mornings a couple times a week Ken

Coleman couple times a week uh smart

money happy hour is not done on the glass because they're out of control and

we don't know what they're going to do next but um also in this Lobby we built

a little thing right here on the glass is it's a we call it the debt free stage

which is where you stand to tell us your debt free story and do your debt free scream on that St age is John and Sarah

hey John how are you guys doing better

than we deserve cool where do y'all live

uh we live up by Green Bay Wisconsin oh

very fun well welcome to Nashville and

how much debt have yall paid we paid off

just about 102,000 mhm and how long did

that take all told about about six years

yep six years and two months six years

all right and your range of income during that six years uh we started out

right around 45,000 uh um with a little freelance we

got up to about 140 and kind of settled

back down at 125 gotcha okay cool what

do youall do for a living I am a uh

brand and Communications team lead at an

IT services company and I do prep at a

coffee shop excellent very cool what

kind of debt was the 102,000 um it was a credit card a couple

of loans from family um and our mortgage

you paid off your house did

looking at a couple of weirdos y way to

go you two so proud of you very very

well done so good job man good job so uh

what started this whole Ramsay uh walk

six years ago uh well I had been I had been

familiar with Dave Ramsey like 15 years

ago MH um we actually saw the book in a

bookstore and we're like we should do that we don't know if we have enough money to pay for the book didn't feel

like we could afford the book uh yeah so

um we kind of had a general sense of of

what Dave Ramsey was all about and um

paying off debt and those things but

weren't really on board at that point um

and kind of were normal we were living

um paying all of our bills on credit cards and then thought we were being responsible by paying the credit card off every month um of course that uh is

easier said than done and inevitably you

get to the end of the month and I was

always concerned about do we have enough

money in the account to pay off the card

um and towards the end of the year often

there wasn't enough so we'd find ourselves carrying a balance and hope for a big um tax refund to to cover the

difference and wipe the Slate clean so

this was really um caused a lot of

anxiety you know it was never I never

felt comfortable never felt like we were getting ahead you weren't we weren't we

weren't and we didn't have a budget um

and I tried several times to figure out

the whole budgeting thing on my own but

it was just um a little too much for me

to to figure out on my own so fast

forward to about 2017 um we had been living this way and

I kind of just got to the point where I

felt like I'm tired of feeling anxious

and unsure all the time

um decided to look uh back into the the

budgeting thing and ended up you know

doing a bunch of Google Search searching and and finding the Dave Ramsey Show again so I started binging the show and

listening to other people's debt-free screams um and you happen to have the uh

$10 sale going on um now I can afford

the book now I could afford the book so

I I love it I bought The Total Money

Makeover I read it um told Sarah I think

we really need to do this for for my

sanity at least but I think for our future as well um I said fine I'll read

the book and then I read the book and I

said I guess we can try it let's let's

let's go and yeah so she wasn't fully on

board at first but uh we got going and

we tried the budget and um by the way

what you say about it taking three months to to get the budget right um is

absolutely true it was a total disaster

terrible um second month was pretty good

third month was pretty good um and it's

the rest uh is history there we go so

what's your home worth um well according to to Zillow

which I don't know if that's entirely uh

accurate but probably close to 250 way

to go you guys yeah wow that's got to

feel great yeah it does was it worth the

struggle oh totally I would do it 10,000

more times I mean I shouldn't have to at

this point but right yeah amen amen yeah

absolutely worth it way to go y'all way

to go excellent excellent so what was the what was the biggest struggle y'all had as a couple like both of you are

showing some hesitant was it because you know Sarah kept spending or John you always had a scam and an idea and a

spreadsheet what was it um I think it

was just we didn't have the tools uh we

found the every AF dollar app and it was

lifechanging and it was like okay it

goes to both of our phones everything's

joint we just you know we're all in it's

there's no excuses to not do it at that

point so like it that was really the big

unlock for me the every dollar app to be honest because I had tried doing doing

budgets before with spreadsheets and I'm just not a spreadsheet guy and the every

dollar app made it so simple and it laid

it all out for us and I that combined

with reading The Total Money Makeover finally um I felt like this finally is a

plan that I can follow I have steps that I can follow I can be intentional and

proactive which is the total opposite of

being reactive and and anxious all the

time so that was the the big thing that

was a sentence yeah that was like

statement right there I like it very good very good excellent excellent good

job you guys all right both of you what

do you tell people when they say how'd you pay off your house what's the secret

to getting out of debt just put your

head down keep on doing it just every

single month do the budget with the every dollar app in just every single month just like okay it's going to pay off in the end and it totally does and it's awesome it's just crazy cool yeah I

think for me the key was the budget and

um really closely related to that is being

on the same page and again having the

every dollar up and being able to go through that budget every month together

make a plan for our money um I had been

the one handling the finances kind of on my own previously so um this was a huge

change to be able to both be looking at

the same numbers and understand what we're making and what's going out um and

then be able to dream about it and dream together about like what can we do now that we actually know what our money is doing um so really making the budget and

being on the same page with your spouse

and talking about it and having the same

dream that's what's it like I'm looking

at your kids over here and my two kids

look to be about the same age as your kids talk about what it feels like as

the world's getting chaotic as schools are getting wonky as thank God we're

entering into another political season right what's it like knowing they can't

they're going to be all right like they you can't take your

house right when it all when all is said

and done they're going to be very reassuring and we're very we're very

religious people as well so it's like God's got this we got this we're going

to be fine yeah I think it's really hard

to put into words the amount of peace that that that brings knowing that we

don't owe a dime to anybody for anything

and um yeah it's just uh it's just an

amazing feeling very cool all right bring them up let's hear their names and ages and introduce them come on up guys

want to hear this so they've been through all this too no doubt they got parents that are heroes that's for sure

our oldest is Jonah he's 14 we have

Silas who's our youngest who is 10 and

we have Ella who is our middle and 13

all right very cool very cool we welcome

you guys beautiful family proud of you

Heroes well done very well done John and

Sarah Jonah Ella and Silas from Green

Bay westconsin Area 102,000 paid off

house and everything 6 years they did

did it making 45 to 125 count it down

let's hear a debt-free scream ready 3 2

1 [Music] we

yeah woo love

it way to go you

guys that's how it's done boys and girls

that's how it's done this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day is John 14:15

if you love me keep my

Commandments Elon Musk said when

something is important enough you do it even if the odds are not in your favor

John's in Seattle hey John welcome to

the Ramsey Show hey good good afternoon over to be

here good to have you sir how can we help you guys for probably the last five

six years

and um yeah I it's it's taken taken a

lot for me to to come forward and and uh

reach out to you guys um I am uh I used

to be a well I I had a major spending

addiction and I had gone through counseling to recover from that um

during my marriage and had just recently

divorced and unfortunately relapsed in

in that in those spending habits and I

am today I'm I'm uh renting an apartment um which is

quite expensive in this area as you can

imagine and I'm sitting on top of uh

$65,000 in debt um three of those are

are lines of of of credit that are in a

bad stat status that have not been paid

for probably 70 days past due and two of

them are in good standing um which one

is direct with my with my current Credit

Union and the other is for my vehicle right now and what do you make I have I

I make about 74 Grand a year and I I

drive for ride share programs in the

area and I have no

savings um I had I had had to uh before

my my divorce I had had to cash out my

401k and um eat through our our

emergency savings that was developed

because how long has it been since you've seen your counselor about your spending

addiction um it's been probably almost

two two years now why why haven't you gone

back um so I because I did right now I I

understand that the tools and the guidance that I was given I understand that I need need to Pivot and turn

around which I have hold on you got you

got hold on you got tools and guidance

that's cool yes but you know the Cornerstone of

every addiction recovery program is

sitting kneecap to knap with another person and saying do you still me do you

see me and do you still love me and you skip that part that's the shame

part that's the part you got to do you

can have all the tools in the world man you can Google how to lose weight you

got to sit with somebody it's hard you

can Google all these other

things you're voiding that hard part how

come did this divorce beat you

up uh yeah the divorce definitely was

was unexpected um but I I guess the the

reason why I I didn't think that I needed to go back to the counselor is because because I understood that I needed to Pivot immediately um I when the the credit

lines were had stopped receiving payment

that's when I that's why I decided to

completely stop touching any of those things um start paying I got myself into

this employment into this consistent

income and decided okay now I need to

get myself caught up make sure that I

have a stable home and start to to see

how I will take care of all of this debt

um which again I have not touched at all

since let me let me let me let me recap

just a second and then I'll make sure then we make sure we try to answer your question okay um okay so you had a

spending addiction you went to see a

coun and after the divorce you relapsed

when was the

divorce I'm sorry when is the divorce

yes sir um it it had start it had started uh

last year and concluded um okay so since

the divorce and since the relapse on the

spending you've not seen a

counselor no sir okay that's what that's

what I was trying to get to okay so John there's two possibilities here um and Dr

John uh um the data that I have seen is

old and I don't know how accurate it is

today but um we have a culture that

talks about every misbehavior as an as

an addiction and every misbehavior is

not an addiction sometimes it's simple

immaturity lack of self-control those

are not addictions it's not addictive

behavior that's just other things that

that the that the general public struggles with the last data I saw have

about 2% of the public with an actual

spending addiction there a a to an OCD

type Behavior okay uh does that sound

right I don't I hear it very very rarely

yeah it's very unusual it's not in the diagnostic and so um the I mean that's

just there's a uh a 12-step program

called debtor Anonymous that you can plug into that has to do with debt and it usually is full of people that have

just had un did not have the ability to

control spending for whatever reason and so they were labeling an addiction the

um rightly or wrongly I don't know but that's what I had read the definition of addiction if you ask me is it's a

behavior that I cannot compulsively stop

that that I continue to do despite its

nefarious consequences and that's what this guy's doing here yeah okay all right so and and if that's the case then

then if you're dealing with something that is at that level and it's not

simply stop it you're being stupid okay

cuz addiction stop it you're being stupid doesn't work okay addictions you have to they're

shame based and you have to meet with

somebody and get a coach get a counselor

and walk your way through it and and so

that's why John's recommending that and the fact that you've not done that is at the core so if we're going to put you in

the bucket if you're going to put you in the bucket or we are that says you are

an actual person who's struggling with an actual Behavior type based addiction

then you need to see a counselor you're

not going to self diagnose your way out

of this no matter how much I'm going to be honest the language he's using is

very addict language now I've got it figured out I just need to solve this I need to move this over here and I need to take care of this every person I've

ever met who struggles with any sort of addiction always has a plan and they just need to work the plan it's all and

it never works yeah right so you've got to get some help dude if that's you if

it's simply John's being a baby and JN

needs to straighten up and so forth that's different that is different than an addiction and I can't tell and we can't diagnose you on the phone but you're using the language to John Dr

John's point of an addict so I would

tell you that to sit down with that now

uh I did promise you that I would actually answer your question too rather than just sit here and diagnose you but the uh um so how can we best help you

today John do you

think well I I completely understand and

I'm I'm very open to what you guys are saying um I take full responsibility for

for every one of my decisions here um no

doubt I'm I'm very how can I best help

you today yeah we're up against the clock looking for in in parallel to that

is in parallel to the help that I need

to to do to the addiction is that I

wanted to know from you guys on your

advice on how I may best tackle my debt

I had spoken to my credit union about

either taking a personal loan or or they

had can't you can't borrow your way out

of it your first step is to get your

income your versus your monthly budget

needs High your income higher than your

basic budget needs so that you can get current once you're current then I'm

going to list the debts smallest to largest and I'm going to pay minimum

payments staying current on the on the

larger ones while I'm attacking the very

smallest debt with a Vengeance and then

of course you've got to remove any type of debt product from within Arms Reach

of you okay an alcoholic can't have a

bourbon collection okay so you've got a

you can't have a credit card collection you can't have a access to all these

things you can't do this so um you know

you've got to separate yourself from the

access to credit lines access to credit

cards and so forth make it hard to get

them get current then increase your

income and all you're going to be doing for a little while is work which is actually cool cuz you if you're working all the time you haven't got time to spend you're too tired and you're working all

the time you're you're busy you don't have time to do it some of the worst spending I do to this day is if I'm

bored and and so that that's a it's a

Devil's Playground so um yeah that's

what I would do is anything you can do that's legal and moral to increase your income and then start chunking on there

like a wild man and if we can help you

further brother you call us anytime we're on your team we love you we want you to win and I'm sorry you've been through everything you have appreciate you joining us that puts this hour of

the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of

Peace Christ Jesus

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a

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## 186. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 5, 2024)


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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music] today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships thank you for

joining us America Rachel Cruz Ramsey

personality bestselling auth multiple

times over and lately bestselling author

of the new book children's book I'm glad

for where I am the second in the series

she's my co-host today and my daughter the phone number is 8825

5225 that's 8825

5225 Adriana is in Dallas Texas hi

Adriana how are you hi I'm good thank

you so much for taking my call sure

what's up um so my husband passed away

about a year ago and um thank you how

long were you married um 13 years wow

how old was he he was only 41 waa what

happened it was a rare presentation of

colon cancer and it from diagnosis to

his death it was just under two years still was really fast I'm so sorry thank

you um so the biggest issue is that I

have life insurance money luckily we had

that um and I hired some financial

advisers and they're advising that I

invest in whole life life insurance for the kids um because there's a high

interest introductory interest rate and

there may be a um genetic component um

the other big thing is that I am intending to take over the mortgage on my house because it's in my parents name and I want to take it over um so they

have advised some credit you know to

have some credit in order to build my um

credit line I'm not working I'm

homeschooling and I'm getting Social

Security I'm just wondering are those the best to take and it's not what what

is well you obviously smelled a rat or

you wouldn't be asking right yeah and so

um are you sure these are financial advisers and not just insurance

agents um they have a financial um

planning I mean that's what they say they are okay what's the company well they uh they work with I

think the company with the whole life is New York I'm sorry it's eagle

strategies now New York but New York

Life New York Life yes yeah these are

insurance agents they're not financial advisers okay okay cuz the insurance

people don't know how to uh do anything

but sell insurance and they're not

licens to sell anything but insurance

but she said Eagle there was another event yeah but I mean you can't write

for a New York Life unless you're in a New York Life agent so they're captives

so uh it's not an independent so uh uh

you know this is just the name of the local New York Life office so no we're

we're not doing business with them you need to you need to move you're getting bad advice okay um and um so uh here's

the thing you've been through a terrible

thing at a very young age and um and

and so uh there's always uh a potential

genetic component anytime someone gets cancer that's why when you're doing a uh

life insurance of any kind um

application they ask about your parents

um and if they have died of cancer

because they want to see that because they're statistical correlations to that

at least susceptibility if not DNA issue

all and so on right I'm not a medical person but that's what the insur how the insurance World Views it and I do know that okay so um but but that doesn't

change what you need to be doing what

you need to be doing is taking care of your family what you're doing and

building some wealth for your future and

the kids' Futures and then when they

face something if they ever face it they

will uh let's say they're 28 and married

with two kids by then they should have

term life insurance in place um and then

if they had some kind of An Occurrence like you guys did uh then they would be

ready that way you don't buy whole life life insurance on a child because their

parent died of cancer that's

asinine okay mathematically okay and

it's just the B it's just Insurance AG I

mean if you ask a dog if it's hungry it

always says yes if you ask an insurance

agent if you should buy insurance they always say yes so I mean it's just

especially in the whole life world and

so no you and and you do need to get the

mortgage into your name instead of your parents' names and that's going to

require some other things but we don't need to go get in debt to cause that to

happen so here's what we're going to do

okay um we don't need anything from you

we're not trying to sell you anything uh

quite the opposite uh as people of faith

our book tells us to take care of widows and orphans and people that take

advantage of widows and orphans by the way really get in a bad place you don't want to be there and so we're going to do quite the opposite here uh I'm going to furnish you a ramsy coun a Ramsey

coach that's been through our training

completely free and let them let them

coach you through um how to get your

investment structured and how to get

this mortgage redone and handson rather

than trying to give you an insurance agent I mean give you an an answer on the radio and certainly not going to give you an insurance agent so I mean you may need some insurance all insurance agents aren't evil that's not what I'm saying I am saying that if you

ask a whole life agent if you should buy whole life 100% of the time they say oh

oh yes it's the answer to everything and

uh if you ask me if you should buy whole

life 100% of the time I say it's never

the answer to anything yeah and in her situation she has the two kids so you

you hit on the so you H dirty that he's

taking advantage of that emotion yes so

that on the health side but but the other component of whole life of what people get sold on too is the investment idea right and she was even saying yeah they have a high upfront interest rate so but for but for her to know that

there's other options on how to invest for your kids that you actually will end up they'll end up with more money a whole lot more than versus even just if

you put it in a fruit jar you'll end up with more than screwing around with a whole life insurance policy uh because

at least if something happens you've got the money in the jar these people take

it all it's it's the wor it's the payday

lender of the middle class that's how

bad it sucks mathematically it's

absolutely a scummy product and to play

on a Widow's emotions yeah about her

children might have oh

God that's particularly nasty yeah you

should be ashamed of yourself but they also are convinced agents are that that

it really is the best right I'm like they like well there's only two kinds there's ones that are dumb and are convinced as good a good product because that's the only way you could convince yourself is if you can't do math or

you're scum right you know you're

selling something or you're selling something you know is bad so that's but

I think for people listening though that's does it not give you a little bit chill to sell a widow her kids stuff

based on the death of her their dad I mean does that not just a little bit

hello people I mean that's nasty so well

and the good thing is is that there's

other avenues for both of these from the insurance rout all kinds of revenues totally a lot of stuff you can that's the that's the hopeful side what Happ almost all of it is better than this yeah and what happens you know I could imagine when she's sitting in their office and they're explaining it there's not there's not option A we could do whole life option b you could do term life and this an option see it's all one

thing right it's like this is the only option and so just to know that there's hope that there's so many so many things

out there for her to do she's going to

be okay financially and her kids are

going to be are going to be okay trying to give some hope trying to get some

hope yeah hang on Christian will pick up

honey we'll get you taken care of no cost to you zero this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today it's wedding and

graduation season and if you've been changed by what we teach and you want to help a graduate or maybe a young couple

start out the way they supposed to start

out there's a cool way to do it we call it the live and give box in the live and

give box I'm reaching for it here trying to get my YouTube self together uh The

Total Money Makeover book The Baby Steps

millionaires book two of my number one

best sellers but most importantly you

get signed up for Financial Peace University all in one kit and uh boy

wouldn't you love to have started out your life with that hello it's pretty

cool and if you've got a graduate out

there too Ken Coleman's book came out

this week called find the work you're

wired to do it includes the get clear

career assessment in it and so which is really

important if you're going to get started

you know and so again graduation and wedding season not a bad gift

particularly graduates right and um I

know you've already got a degree and whatever but yeah I want you to get

clear on it and the Liv and give box

check all of this at ramsy solutions.com

in the store if you want to go straight to the Box just ramsy solutions.com boox

for theive and give box Bryce is with us

in Louisville Kentucky hey Bryce what's

up hey thanks for having me sure how can

I help um so I have around 34,000 saved up

and um I make about

4,200 uh a month I spend probably 1,500

after bills and food and I was just

wondering inste of me putting money into

my 401k and uh instead could I just invest in

real estate and like put like rental

properties up and so I can have a stay

uh an income at all times Well you don't have the money to

buy a rental property I was going to go and take out

a uh FHA one yeah which tells me you

don't have the money to buy rental property so um we Bryce what we have

found is that the people that avoid

debt including rental properties are the

ones that Prosper I own a bunch of real

estate I love real estate I'd love for you to own some real estate since you want to someday as a part of your life

but I want you to pay cash for it do you

own the home your living

in um yes okay is it paid

off yes good good for you what's it

worth um I got a praise last year it's

probably worth 120,000 good it s out so

I got it for 30 wow you got a deal good

for you well that's cool so I'll tell

you what I did and I would recommend you do something similar okay we recommend

that if you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund in place then we do baby steps four five and six and baby step four is 15% of your income which is uh you know

uh you're you're making like 50 $60,000

a year okay and so we're talking about

$7 $8,000 a year is all okay going into

your 401K Roth preferably if they have a

Roth available and with a match that'd be wonderful and some good mutual funds

beyond that I started saving once my

house was paid off to buy my first real

estate after I had gone broke in real

estate by having too much debt so um by

the way but yeah so so anyway I I just

took an SNP fund and I started chunking

money beyond my 15% into that S&P and

when it got to be enough in there to pay cash for my first little rental that's

what I did you're probably not that far

from doing

that like what price range would you

spend for your first rental

Bryce um so I was going to buy 10 acre

lot for 75,000 and then I can get a used

uh trailer that was repossessed for 10,000 they redo it and everything and then it cost me 5,000 get it put in and

then I already have someone put in my septic for 2,000 problem is that won't

go up in value only the dirt will not

the trailer so I would not invest in that as a

rental uh because I want to invest in a

home uh or a duplex or something that's

going to go up in value not go down in

value and so um the only time I would

look at trailers is if you bought a whole trailer park and they cash flow

like a bandit they make so much money uh

cash on cash return it's unbelievable

but you've got the constant problem of

taking them out of service because they deteriorate

yeah and you don't no you don't want to take a nice subdivision a good piece of

dirt and put a trailer on yeah how old are you Bryce 19 you're 19 yeah you got plenty

of time to do this got lot of time yeah and I would say too Bryce just to this

point it's going to take you and you're you're a smart guy I'm like you're already at 19 you're like thinking of ways how can I wheel and deal and you know make some money which is so great

and then this process it's going to take you longer but I think having a goal as

you do the math out and say okay what

how long will it take to save up cuz where you are in Louisville Kentucky I'm like save you know 150,000 and go find a foreclosure

at some point this may be years down the road and that be your first like find

the deal on the on the sale and just say

yeah this is be my first and you just slowly build but the frustrating thing about this process price is that it's slow but the great thing about it is

that it carries so much peace with it it carries so much peace you're not stressed and by the way I've bought over

2,000 pieces of property and Rachel's

husband Winston doeses this for a living

now it's what he does he's in the real estate business and um he was trained

here with me running my property and so

he's doing the we're both doing the exact same things we're telling you to do yep um and we're but we're just

decades past you we're you know 20 30 40

years beyond your process but I I

remember the first time I finally got $150,000 saved up and oddly enough

that's what it was to buy that first property and I had it laying there in that mutual fund and then I looked around and F found a bargain and um and

there there we go you know and as soon as you get about three of these that you own that are paid for the rents coming

off of three paid for properties are

pure they're not going to the bank

you're not paying any payments on them so that pure rent Stacks up fast and you

can buy another property ever so often

just off of the rents get a positive

snowball and Winston and I what we've done too like there was a condo we got our very first rent was a condo um and

and foreclosure nasty thing it was like a one bedroom one bathro I mean it was it nasty it was really nasty it wasn't much but we fixed it up did it and then

eight years later it doubled and so we

were like well we could sell that go to

you know find another deal somewhere else you can even Step Up in property too as you go through this process if you don't want to just hold on to that chy condo we did wow we did that thing

was like a family member it had been around a while it was your first one it

was your first Winston was attached that was good not you that was

fine I trusted him I was like if that's

that's good I did not know the junkie condo was gone that's Al it wasn't junky

anymore it wasn't junk that's how

started out how it started out but it is fun Bryce and I think that is I think a lot of people are interested in that

like this idea that investing sounds

sounds boring but it's a tried and true

way to build wealth so do it but then

the other the other offshoot of investing and what you're talking about and you're actually going to talk about it at y'all's investing live stream coming up um is real estate and people

really are interested and and it is it's

a great you love it I mean it's a great it's a great way to kind of diversify

even your wealth building when it comes to that I've made a lot more money in real estate than I have in mutual funds

and I've also uh but I've also put more

money in real estate because I'm a real estate person and uh the mutual fund so

my personal net worth is probably 80%

real estate um you know between mutual

funds and real estate anyway not count not count this business that I own and

that kind of stuff but yeah it's very interesting so Bryce the the key is it's

very difficult at any age but it's

really difficult to go slow when you're

19 please listen to the old people go

slow the people who go slow in real

estate are the ones that are still doing it 20 years later the ones that go fast

get burned and they get to start over

again which is what I did when I was I

started buying real estate when I was 22 and by the time I was 28 I was broke and

so um went from nothing to a millionaire

to broke between 22 and 28 and so I just

don't want that for you I want you to just go slow I I don't want I don't want

your face on the front of Fast Company magazine I want your face on the front of slow company magazine so slow real

estate slow real estate magazine which

is which is everybody in America right

now let's be honest yeah you're not going to be a tick tock sensation I can

promise you and not if you're doing it

right this is the Ramsey Show

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[Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage Kevin

and Katie are with us hey guys how are you hi good how are you good better than

we deserve welcome where do you live we're from Keen New Hampshire little

Northwest of New Hampshire fun welcome to Nashville how much debt have you paid

uh

$122,800 and two months four years and

two months good for you and your range

of income during that time we started at

about 60,000 and ended up at about 130

wow nice doubled your income in four

years yes sir how'd you do that uh I

asked my boss to just bury me in work

and he obliged yes he did what do you

what do you do I'm an independent insurance adjuster oh very good okay so

it is you got it you can do that yes yep

okay and uh what about you Katie what do

you do um I'm stay-at home Mom and

homeschool mom love it good for you guys

well done all right so this is all that

income change is all uh all on your boss

Barry in you yeah excellent Prett much good very good very cool what kind of debt did you was this 123 uh it was a

multitude of just about everything uh

student loans two cars credit cards

medical bills uh don't think I'm missing anything else yeah about that but just normal you were normal yeah yeah how long you'all been married almost 13

years so nine years into the marriage

give or take eight years into the marriage something happened what happened um well uh first off we just

want to thank you and thank God for

putting that blessing and that call on

your heart to help us and help the

millions of people that you've helped so far and we'll continue need to help um

and that's really where our journey began is is getting into our Bible and

getting back to those biblical principles that are buried in there that

we just needed to go find um and you

really brought them to light for so many people and including us um but when uh

about four years ago uh almost 5 years

ago we went in to go get uh diapers for

our middle child at the time and I went

through probably about three or four different cards and I couldn't buy them

o and I walked out back to the car and

sat down next to Katie and said we can't

do this anymore yeah yeah that break

break a dad's heart yep I couldn't buy diapers from my daughter yeah that that'll that'll put an end to it m and so you go home and you're like okay we're selling everything yep yep we uh

we pulled the old book off the shelf cuz the book went through eight different moves with us and never read it n no

which which one Total Money Makeover yeah it was the work we he that a lot we

hear this a lot this is a very Money Makeover America's coaster on your

coffee table yeah exactly oh my gosh so

Katie when that moment happens you're sitting there in the car are you thinking oh thank god let's do something or were you like wait is it that bad oh

gosh like what was your reaction in that moment yeah I mean it was just like a feeling of dread like everything that

we've done trying to live normal just

didn't work like at all for us it all

came crashing down um and then yeah we

were pretty much all in we talked to our

um our pastor at our church and they

were offering FPU oh good went through

fin yep we got into a class right away

yep um we we even we had to travel like

an hour for it yeah we drove an hour for

it uh to conquered New Hampshire wow um

and then shortly thereafter the next

February of 2020 we let our first class

ourselves wow yeah literally a couple

months after we got out we decided yeah

we're going to lead our own yep class and then right in the middle is when Co hit of course January of 2020 yeah of

course so oh man what which debt was it

for you guys that you were like oh it's

gone I'm so glad I'm so glad it's gone

card cards oh for you yeah it was

student loans for me okay okay okay oh

yep it was that last one where it was

just over the hump especially during

when you're right in the middle of it all and the longer the the longer that

you're doing it the higher debt is that you're trying to pay off so that snowball it works but we the mountains

to climb yeah yep back the back of it's

steep it was 50,000 so it was almost half of our debt was the student loans at the end y yep and we we paid that all

off in one year we were just that was our last year just so you did half of it

in three years and the other half in one year yeah we had a baby along the way so

that slowed us down and I had a surgery

as well right after I had the baby oh my

gosh yeah definitely happened then that

math is fair yeah that's good that's good way to go guys you persevered you

kept with it you kept with it you kept with it why didn't you

quit well you saw one of them coming up

on the stage I don't ever want to have

that feeling again of not being able to buy diapers yep yep I can't wait to buy

somebody a pack of diapers that's struggling with their cards at that I see at Target or Walmart or whatever wow

I can't wait to go and buy you may buy a

whole bunch of diapers in your life before this is over God may just keep

keep putting them in line in front of you y yep we'll just Keep On Blessing I

love it that's fabulous what do you guys

say to families out there cuz I have three little ones too and I just know life is just tiring right you're in a really tiring season and as you're home all day with the kids while he's working extra right so you probably feel like a single mom half the time while he's while he's gone you're exhausted so what do you say to families out there listening and they're like there's this

is just not the time this isn't the time to do it we're so tired we're barely

getting by like I don't know I don't

know what would you say to them um I

would just tell them to continue to communicate with each other because

that's been the key to this whole thing

um don't give up to keep on going no matter how grueling it gets no matter how long the days are no matter how much

time that you feel like you don't spend with your kids they're still going to be there they're they're very resilient they're still licking lollipops and

laughing along the way um but just to

keep on going don't give up yeah it's

good it's never too late to start I mean

we were married for years and years and

um at one point we had said we're always

going to have a car payment always he it

came out of his mouth and now we're

never going to that's not like a statement of principle it's a statement of hopelessness exactly we've been there

and you can turn it around you can turn

your perspective around so good you guys

oh amazing well thanks to your pastor

for teaching Financial PE University at his church and it was there at just the right time go figure I knew yeah so

great yeah very cool good for you guys I'm so proud of you well done you're Heroes you're Heroes to those little kids you changed their whole family tree

so well done y'all so well done you're

on the opposite of the spectrum from not being able to buy diapers to buying diapers for the rest of your life there you go for other people this time there

we go I like it if you live like no one

else later you can live and give like no

one else that's how that works all right bring the kiddos up what are their names and ages so we've got Isaiah is mhm Mia

is five M and Levi is three all right

and we got matching dresses with Mom

that's pretty cool I like that they've been practicing

their debt free screaming the car right here all the way down yep from New

Hampshire to Tennessee that's a lot of practice lot wow lots of

Advil for you

yes very good guys I'm so proud of y'all

Heroes you're amazing you've done

something that's absolutely not normal

be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

you're amazing thank you so much thank Youk you well well done all right Kevin

and Katie I Isaiah Mia and Levi

$123,000 paid off in four years and two

months making 60 to 130 of buried in my

work count it down let's hear a debt

free Scream 3 2 1 we're de

three oh very

good very

cool cute kids and I think I think Mia

wins the award maybe I she got it down

and then went right back to the lollipop right after the stream very well done

good stuff you guys very cool so

encouraging you do this at any stage of

life with any income with any situation

when you decide to change that's when

things change no external force is going

to do it no matter who's in the White

House you still got to fix you this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

what

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[Music]

[Applause]

[Applause] Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Clayton is with us in

Charleston South Carolina hi Clayton how

are you I'm good how are you'all better than

we deserve what's up so I got a question for y'all uh my

wife and I just bought our first house

um and I'm currently a UPS driver I make

$30 and so 8 C an hour and my wife is a

doctor's assistant she makes about 23 an

hour so overall we make a little over

$100,000 a year uh which is

great but uh I just got recently a job

offer it is a pay cut but it is a better

quality of life um we have no debt other

than our house we owe

$244,000 left on our house we

put uh about $70,000 down on the house

um and I just want to know what do you

think I should do should I stay where I'm currently at and work to pay this

this house off or should I take this job

and get a better quality life able to be

around with my family and you know give

me the able to start having kids my wife

everything so we don't have any kids

right now so your family is your

wife yes okay all right and I'm confused

how many hours a week are you working as a UPS

driver anywhere between 55 to 60 hours a

week are you able to cut back on just

your hours there if you wanted

to unfortunately no uh the way it works

is whenever you start is the start time

that they give us and then whenever you're you're finished delivering is when you're finished okay so when unfortunately there's nothing else okay what's the um what's the price like what

are you going to be making the difference in income So currently I'm

3075 and then the new job will be

2538 an hour and have you run about A5

jump okay yeah and have you guys run the

math on it's not a $5 jump because you're going to be doing 40 hours instead of 55 correct so it's a it's a it's a 50%

pay cut yeah you're not going to be working

as many hours and you're going to be making less per hour cor right have you guys run a

budget to see like to just to see hey if

I took this new job and with the pay cut

and the hours I'm going to be working here's what we have left

and like this is this will be our life

financially have you guys run those

numbers we have but I just feel like

we're missing something and yeah you're

running it at 55 you're running it by the hour that's what you're missing right you need to run the actual

totals and then and then you're going to

realize that you're taking a $35,000

your pay cut no you don't need to take this job that's bull crap you weren't

looking for a job this thing popped up and it's not the answer to your problem

okay well I was looking for a job okay

well see C is what you want you want a

job that pays what UPS is paying without

working 55

hours not by not by the hour by the

total so I want you to find a career

you're making about $70,000 a year

right yes sir okay and I also get a pay

jump this year too good I want you to

find a career that pays 70 to $80,000 a

year and start working your way towards

that career working 40 hours or

so um now I I I've done work for UPS

speaking to your your guys's Executives

and I know a bunch of UPS drivers and

retired UPS people and the the stock

plan is incredible uh I mean

and I I don't know exactly how where you

are what you're doing works but my

feeling would be Clayton that you could

probably pick another route over time

that got your hours down yeah I was going to say as you move up in seniority right yeah yeah is that not how it works let

me uh yeah yeah as you move up in

seniority you can get a better route and

stuff but there's at my Center there's

over a 100 drivers and I'm currently

night like number 70 so that's going to

be like 10 15 years it's no it's not

they don't stay you got turnover in

there they don't all have to die

off yeah and so um I I think you need to

talk to some guys around there and find out how long it's going to take you to get into a more reasonable route

situation uh where you can control the

thing because you're low man on the totem pole right now so you're getting crappy runs that have long hours uh of

course holidays you've got crappy runs that have long hours it just goes with your territory but UPS is uh a company

of work hard and pays well that's the

company right they have a real work

ethic culture um it's one of the reasons

that they were attracted to me uh and

vice versa so uh it's been many years

ago that I did that but just the same I

came away from my time working with

their executive teams and stuff uh with a respect for your all's culture um and

so but no I I think if you want to work

less hours you need to figure out how long it's going to take you to get there at UPS as a possibility also say okay

what career field can I start moving towards and if it takes me a little while to get towards that career with some of the steps that king Coleman outlines I would do that but this

presupposing that I'm going to cut my pay in half so I can work 40 hours and

so I can be home with the dog um nah nah

Clayton how old are you let me ask can I ask you that how old are you yeah I'm

I'm 26 and my wife is 27 I actually

wanted to say something else real quick too with this new job my hours will be

40 a week but I go in at 6 and I clock

out at 2 so it gives me the opportunity

to pick up a second job uh so where's

the quality of life increase dude

well now you're back to 55 hours a week

and you're just making

less I guess yeah yeah now you picked up

a a side hustle so you're you know

unless that side hustle is taking you into something where you want to be when you're 36 no no I wouldn't do that um I'm not

saying UPS is the end all to be all I'm not if you if you want out of there I'll help you get out of there hang on I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book uh this new and find the

work you're wired to do to get clear assessment and I want you to take that assessment I want you to start thinking about what you really want to be not just what you make what is it you want

to do with your life and I will tell you folks out there

aside from this um I'm not about

workaholism I'm not about you abandoning

your family in the name of work and never knowing your children's names or

anything like that I didn't do that when our kids were growing up I went through a season where I work my tail off

16-hour day but it was a season it was not a

lifestyle and uh the children were

little bitty and um you know their

mother would tell you that she was a single mom during that time but she and

I talked it through it's what we were doing to start this place that I operate

today it was the foundation of this

place in the '90s I was doing that and

so it was a period of time I meet almost

no one who has a high quality life that

has left their mark on their family and

on on this Earth that does it on 40

hours just I'm going to work 40 hours my

whole life you're just you know yeah for

a period of time if you're training for a marathon you have to

sweat now do you have to do that every

single day no when you finish you know when you hit the next time you take a little time down okay but you work like

no one else so that later you can work like no one else and you know you're

just now getting involved and I don't know I guess all your friends are out partying while you're working cuz you're 20 4 um and you know that's going to show

are you're 26 they going to show up in

their Liv there season there's seasons of sacrifice and and and for Clayton and

I don't know I'm just making this up but I'm like yeah there could be a season you're an entry-level guy you got the

crappy root and you do that for two

years and then you get a better route better pay and you know what I mean but like there's you don't get to start off and not that he's saying this but you don't get to start off you know at the top necessarily and so um it was funny I

was doing career day at my oh third

graders little class and they said where did you start off I was like I started off going to assemblies and high schools

all across America and I did that for like you know three years staying who

knows I didn't get paid yeah I mean who knows where in these yeah these small

towns and all of it but you know that again there's just there is that level of sacrifice but then there's a clip going around on you on on on on on the

socials and you're like work 80 hours a week so everyone does think that you're just like a workolic well I know every

wants to and moan some of that

just but yeah if you want something to whine about you can find a clip of me to whine about that's not hard I've done

50,000 hours of radio there's plenty of

me saying something out of context that'll get you where you want to go for your little Tick Tock clickthrough this

is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Rachel Cruz number one

bestselling author including her two

book series so far on children's books

I'm glad for where I am just a recent

bestseller for your kiddos it's the

second one in that Series be sure and check it out she's my co-host today and

my daughter open phones at

88255 225 Katie's in Minneapolis hi

Katie how are you hi good thank you how are you better

than I deserve what's

up um I'm calling because I have a

daughter uh who's going to be graduating college this month um she's going to

have about $80,000 in student loan debt

good Lord um I know so here's the thing

my husband and I knew inheritance money

would be coming our way so we didn't push back on her going um out of state

where there's higher tuition and we didn't really tell her we would pay for her colle but we told her we'd figure it out because we thought we might be able to do that and um that would be money

coming from his side and my side so my

husband and I divorced when she was a sophomore in college and then after the

divorce I did get my inheritance money

and so I have enough to pay it in full

and I want to do that very much I want

to help my daughter um the only thing I'm just wondering is should I pay it in

full or or have him ask and he would be

willing if he had the money he's just kind of I don't know if he has it right now to take on half of that burden of

helping her does he have the

40,000 not right now he does not okay

all right um does the divorce decree demand

that you two pay this or is this just something you all sort of kind I had a

discussion about once way back there and never talked about it again uh correct there's nothing in the

divorce decree on this yeah your

ex-husband's not going to give her any

money well yeah I I think he wants to

and he would if he could um so that's

where I'm thinking what I could do is just pay it in full and then ask him to

pay me later but I don't think I will ever yeah that yeah um I mean if you're

if you're on speaking terms with him and you want to pay it in full say I just paid it off one time we talked about it

and you said you'd pay half if you can ever give her the other 40 maybe she could use that towards a house or

something okay yeah because it it was a

quite oh go ahead yeah it's okay so if

you mean if you can have that conversation that would be fine but then

but then forget it it's over you know

you don't get to go back later and go where's that money right right you just you just drop

it you made a decision and you made a

comment and you moved on that's what I

would do cuz otherwise this is going to ride around rentree in your

head yeah and and we we're we're quite we're

friendly it's quite amicable um

situation not relative if he doesn't

ever give her money yeah and it bothers you and you

lay awake and he doesn't think about it again you'll be the only one thinking

about this on the planet how much did

you get from The Inheritance Katie

um well quite a bit I was able to uh buy

my own home after the divorce with it

what's quite a bit how much did you get

do you feel comfortable saying it or no sorry just under a million okay yeah so

you have a paid off house how are you doing financially because that's almost what I'm want to make sure that you know

this money is being I mean it's 80 grand so I'm like I want to make sure Katie you're you're set up well um for your

future retirement I mean like looking

like we talk about doing that laying that foundation for the parent first

before the kids and so yeah making sure

that yeah where you are financially is in a good spot so you bought your house outright so you have no mortgage correct and how are you doing

with retirement Investments and

everything um I am I think I'm okay I

have 700,000 um in an IRA well in an IRA 85

in a 401k

a the house is worth what

um 500,000 and you're how

old 55 cool so you're a 55y old married

I mean divorced millionaire cool that's

neat oh thanks to my mom I know and so

we want to honor that memory by being wise if I'm in your shoes yes I would

write a check based on what you have told me and pay off your daughter student loans and yes I would make a

phone call to the ex and say hey remember when we said that I just paid the whole thing when you get ready to pay her your half like you promised someday she can use that for her first

house or something else and um I'm not

letting you off the hook I wanted you to know I had done it though and drop it after that forget it ever happened just walk away and never think a thing about it again can you do that I can do that okay because I don't

want this becoming this constant thing

like when's he going to do his part you

know and all that because you're doing your the only person you can control is

you and you can't control him

and you know you're you're saying it's

amicable and he intends to and you have

faith in him um you know I've just been

doing this 35 years my faith in the ex

following through on a promise is fairly

low you know it's just fairly low I just

see you know I guess nobody calls this show and says oh my ex followed through

that doesn't happen because we get only

the other ones yeah but but yeah I just

want to let you know Dave no I mean that

cuz I guess some of them do but I mean we just don't run into it and thank God for you know that she oh I hate to say

that because it it was her mom's passing so I I didn't mean that but just that she's in the situation she's in because that's another reason why we say don't

take on debt because life happens and

they had this plan yeah and then ends up

getting divorced in the middle of school

and if this inheritance hadn't come this daughter you know if it's a Parent PLUS Loan I'm like yeah both could be on the hook but also I don't know what the daughter signed I don't know how they did the the student loan agreement but

the daughter signed up for she got she could have been 80 I mean she would have been 80 Grands thinking like we'll we'll

take care of it too so that's the aster

too of the story is that you're taking

on risk always always always always when

you take on this de and life rarely

plays out exactly how we have it planned

out like never yeah so it's it's just

that that word of caution but um Katie

I'm so sorry that's a hard season Katie

you know losing your you know your mom

the divorce in the middle of of it and it's just that's hard that's really hard but this is a redeeming beautiful thing that you'll be able to do from a financial aspect um to be wise with so

I'm glad you called in very good very cool good stuff so yeah the the cool

thing about student loans is is they shouldn't be there at

all almost all of student loan debt is

based on someone choosing to go to a

school that they could have gone to a cheaper school and paid

cash almost every time you're choosing a

school you can't afford just like

choosing a car you can't afford and so I

I can buy a car to drive around for

$5,000 I have

$5,000 or I can buy a $50,000 car

because it's a nicer car and go $45,000

in debt that's a choice

it wasn't a requirement to have

transportation it was you chose poorly

and you choose to go to a school you freaking can't afford moms and dads you

need to teach you need to learn a new

word no it's a new word try it no everybody

practice with me no this is the ramsy

show [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

regel Cruz ramsy personality is my

co-host I was going over my notes this

morning to get ready to speak this

weekend at The Total Money Makeover

weekend

I am so excited to get to do this I

haven't done the classic Total Money

Makeover material in a while and I'm

getting to do some stuff I haven't done yeah before this Total Money Makeover

weekend um I I'll be speaking of course

Rachel Jade George camel Ken Coleman on

how to get your income up John deloney on how to bring more peace to your life overall getting out of debt creating a

budget communicating better with your spouse easing anxiety investing in

building for retirement and it's a whole

thing we start on Friday night this coming weekend and go all through

Saturday and uh live taping of the hip

podcast smart money happy hour with Rachel and George we've got live Q&A all

through the thing it is going to be an

absolute blast and there's still some tickets left sadly I thought it would be

sold out by now but I was wrong so we'd

love to have you guys it's right here on the Ramsey campus this coming Friday May

10th and 11th you could come a little

early and watch the show be done we do the show every day from 1: to 4:00 Central Time on the glass following that

grab a bite te somewhere and then come on up up on top of the hill to the Ramsey Event Center and we'll be doing

the event so you can get your tickets at Ramsey solutions.com events and uh handful handful of tickets

left you can still get in and um we're

we're excited about doing this yeah it's going to be a fun weekend it's always fun our events are always enjoyable and

we'll all be there and I like that it's so money focused the whole weekend which

will be great yeah you'll laugh cry you

can uh bring that spouse that needs to be converted or that friend that thinks you're crazy and they will leave being as crazy as you yeah that can happen

Daniel's with us in Tallahassee hi

Daniel welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey Dave Rachel how are you guys

doing better than we deserve sir what's

up all right just a quick question so

basically um after some few time uh

after some convincing I did get my wife on board we are both on board when it comes to uh attacking our debt um I want

to be gazelle in T and if I can borrow the language you guys use she wants to be more on the intentional side while

still taking care of things uh that she

thinks are still important so I'm the

grumpy guy who says I don't want to do nothing um no more Christmas no more

gifts no more no no more nothing let's just be did you say no more

Christmas well no more yeah I want yes I

well no wonder you're unpopular

Grinch yeah I am Grinch I'm not a big on

the only because I'm like how can we strip down to the bare minimum I'll go

with that but I mean you start with

Christmas I'm I mean I'm cutting some of

your stuff before we're getting to Christmas buddy oh my gosh no wonder she's not

enthused about

you so my question well I guess I I

introduce her to we both uh I introduce

her to thinking funds and now we it

seems like we're starting to have a growing amount of sing funds so we can

stop dealing with things as they come up and it's helped we have the money when we need it but I feel like the syncing funds are taking a little too much of the margin and I would like to attack the debt at a more aggressive speed so I don't know how to compromise with her and we're running at different Paces here it seems like what are the syncing

funds for um let me pull up every dollar just

to give a few examples here but um so

every every dollar okay keep going sorry

go ahead um home for instance the

homeschool program every year comes around around August September we pay for that um we used to go into debt for

that but we stopped doing that since we stopped this whole how is that a

waste it's not a wa that's no some of

these are not a waste that's not a waste we need a for instance that's one of these things bothering you give us a waste that one's not bothering you if it is you got an

issue my girl's my daughter's birthday

um it's coming up this is so bad

um now that I realize okay but she wants

we're saving up some of that because um

how much are we planning to spend on the daughter's birthday

um I have twin girls so it's we're

setting aside 100 a month um you're

gonna spend $1,200 on a birthday party no it's

coming no no no it's about 500 it's

coming in it's coming in um August so

it's so 250 a kid

right okay so your argument is that that might be too much no I feel like they starting all

add up um well they're adding up because

they're real I mean that food thing it adds up

yeah because I think Daniel there could be an instance of like oh my gosh life is expensive where we all just been charging everything you said The Homeschool stuff we just go into debt for it you almost just delayed everything and now when you're paying for stuff so upfront it is going to feel

like yeah that there that there is more

yeah you're actually admitting what's going on now by doing a budget with sinking funds and you weren't before so

I I um unless it's a vacation right

gazelle intense I would say we don't do

vacations let's let's pause 12 months on the vacation eating out eating out we're going to pause like a couple of things to do but um but but the reality of life

and what life costs may be the thing

that's like oh crap this is this is a

lot and when we're cash flowing everything like what we teach you really

face oh my gosh our life is eating up so

much of our money because life is expensive so there could be stuff that you guys tweak here or there um but yeah

uh so Daniel it it sounds like that

um you're I don't think you're on as

different a page as you think you are I think your argument is not with her it's with reality you're struggling and so um let's give it a

month or two and just kind of see if this see if the emotions of this iron out okay I appreciate and embrace your

enthusiasm I appreciate and embrace your

passion to get this done those are keys

to getting it done and so you keep that

part going yeah but just don't blame I

don't think she's to blame nothing you gave me here was like that she's acting

like she's not intense I mean we're

going to buy clothes and we're going to buy food and we're going to pay for the homeschool materials and you know um

we're going to have a birthday party might be a little high but it's not it's

not you know it's not throwing you you off by two years thousand yeah right you

didn't tell me you spend 12,000 or 12 if you just said 12200 I'd probably say

that's a bit much but yeah but the uh um

and it depends on the age of the kid and all that kind of stuff too I mean if you got twin one-year-olds they don't even know you're doing this so you're doing

it for you so then then that's a

different thing so uh you know but it I but if they're

twin 10 year- olds they definitely know

they know everything about what's happening there and I guess a uh um a a

visit to the Magic Mouse Mr cheesy

what's his name Chucky cheesy Chucky cheesy yeah the Magic Mouse I guess

that's probably a couple hundred buck I was like Mickey Mouse I guess no I think I'm thinking Chucky's probably a couple hundred bucks to I mean per kid yeah I

mean those birthday parties at those places you're paying per kid and yeah so

I mean the packages it can be them down there I don't know what they cost but I've been down there when it happened 20 bucks a kid 30 bucks a kid for

stuff me and the mouse are in there

we've druged day chuckecheese indoor

trampoline parks there's been a lot of

great birthday parties yeah a lot of

great birthday parties there's not enough there's not enough disinfectant

in the

world oh there are some there are

some it's full of kids it's full of kids

little sweaty kids all over all the yeah it's just

nasty yeah h

but yeah I'm guessing that I mean I've been to those with the grandkids and I'm guessing you guys are shelling out yeah a couple hundred bucks so yeah I I would

say if you're getting out of debt the birthday party is probably at home you're ordering some pizza having some friends over and calling in to day I mean like you know what I mean if you're going to go just like yeah the simple

routes yeah and it can be done like it's

that's that's but the thing here Daniel I think is what as we talk through this

with you everything you brought to us

were things that were not out of

bounds and so it sound like your wife

with the sinking funds is like destroying your little plan it's more

like reality is destroying your little plan and dampering your in it's actually

a really great point I hadn't thought about that but for a lot of people that are starting this process when you say no debt yeah so that we can pay off debt

then those expenses are real it's not this like oh we can just worry about that later Kick the Can down the yeah

down down the road but that's the power

too though to his point is that's when you can cut some of those things you're

like oh my gosh what were we paying for that maybe there's a cheaper homeschool program or whatever right like that's when you actually start caring about the

expenses cuz you're you're seeing it in real time and in real life

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music] [Applause]

[Music] [Applause]

I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those

especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the

sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills the M next week yeah how in the

middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reupping it

because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if

something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much CU Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking

the time to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so

that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our family's needs for

insurance for many years including of

course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356

4282 or go to zander.com

[Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

solutions is the debt free stage on the

debt free stage is Ruben and Kirsten hi

guys how are you we're awesome hey Dave

welcome good to have you good to have you so where do you guys live Colorado

Springs Colorado Colorado all right well

welcome to Nashville good to have you

and how much debt have you two paid off

we paid off 270,000 in 5 years wow good

for you and your range of income during

that time we started at 72,000 and then

went up to 112 very good very good what

do you do for a living um we both work in the finance department of a software

Supply Chain management company AES very

same place same company that's fun did

you guys meet there um we actually met at a different location and we worked

together the entire time we known each

other just different places that's awesome so great so how long have you been married um it'll be six years next

month so right after marriage boom boom

we're getting out of debt y five years

game on what kind of debt was the

270 this was our house you paid off your

house looking at a couple of weirdos I

love it you're so weird what's this house worth um probably about 425 I love

it and how old are you two weirdos 30 30

years old I'm 31 he's 35 okay close

enough close is trying to get some youth

good good move Reuben well played yeah I

like it hey very good guys early 30s

that's amazing you so you get married and is this the was the only debt you've been working on or did you pay off others before that um so it started

about eight years ago but we cash flowed

my bachelor's degree um our wedding our

honeymoon to Alaska um just saved like

crazy and then during the payoff we

financed or not financed sorry we paid

off about 50,000 um in home renovations

yeah and paid 270 yes yeah way to go

guys what in the world happened to y'all

that made you so weird this is wonderful

like a year after marriage it's game on on the house yeah basically started for

me about eight years ago uh driving home

from from work and a in a job that I hated and just really wasn't happy about

who I was and where I was at in life uh

um turned you on you just happened to be

actually turn on the radio you just happened to be on the radio and uh never

listened to the radio back then and heard your voice heard your name before but had never truly listened to you um

and some context my grandparents my dad

there been huge influences on my life they basically practice your principles um from day one you know pay cash for

things live unless you may God's and Grandma's ways of handling money mhm and

when I heard you like that instantly clicked for me um so I was super just

intrigued at that moment but I also just

loved how raw you were with with the collars you know I don't want to see you in a restaurant without you know unless you're working there uh you need to sell your truck you know so like I was pumped

up just listening to you and uh you know

you really started talking about changing your family tree and talking about things that that really hit me hard um changing about who changing who you are changing um uh you know really

just owning up to yourself and taking

control of your life and that hit me hard cuz uh yeah just when I heard that I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like if I'm ever going to have the things that I love and really want my life then I need

to I need to I need to do something about it I didn't have a money problem I just had I had a me problem oh so thank

you that's amazing and that's it I'm

like that's that's the key for so many people it's that Awakening of like oh my gosh I can do this like I can wake up tomorrow and make different decisions it's so empowering so you guys had

babies during this time how old are the kids um Isaac is two and Ruby is 7

months okay okay so you all have little ones little ones so what was the hardest part of this I mean this is a lot of money you guys that you paid off a lot of I'm sure extra work and everything but yeah what was what was difficult I think just staying the track you know it could have been really easy to to divert the plan or uh you know just make other

decisions we've had hail damaged cars are pretty much whole legs you know we

just don't care but uh it could have

been really easy to to move to divert

but we we had a better purpose and we knew we were bringing kids into the to world at some point was it worth it oh

was so worth who made fun of you um we got called

crazy a lot um but nothing like

downpouring that was just more poking

fun and um just it encouraged us just in

a different way yeah did you have some cheerleaders people that were supporting

yeah definitely yeah good good and another thing that was kind of hard for us I guess is I had had a town home uh

like 2015 and it was super cheap and it

was not in the best part of the springs and uh there was a lot of crime activity

driveby was across the street you know somebody had gotten killed shot and killed so people were like you need to get out of there we're like no you know we got to we got this we're doing this for a reason you know this is for a purpose uh so that was yeah yeah the

location and then you got the house though so you moved out of the house we just knew that we wanted to wait until after we were married and um do things

in the right way and yeah we stayed

there longer than we should have but we did we're still here we weren't shot so

so there we go

oh you guys that's incredible I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say that so pleasantly we're still here and we didn't get shot way to go kirston I love it good

for you guys way to go you guys I'm so

proud of you I would imagine your mom and dad are jumping up and down proud aren't they Ruben oh man well my mom passed away in 2008 so you know part of

that was she did have a 30,000 in life

insurance that we I was a we were able

to put down on the house that we're in now so to to honor that or honor her

that way has been awesome and you know

yeah it's incredible so great you guys

so great so what would you say to people

the key of getting out of debt is um for

us we put when we initially got the

mortgage we put the extra P principal

when we did the paperwork so there was

that gap for us like the extra payment

was automatically coming out so we just got used to that being our mortgage payment even though it was more than double and it put that Gap so you

couldn't make any real impulse decisions

and that would take you off of your

yeah yeah that's great that's a smart way of doing it for sure automate your

discipline yep I like that just keep it

going a good plan I used to do that to

myself all the time until I had natural

discipline I put stuff on auto everything so it just automatically happened and I went oh now I have to live on what's left cuz I put all that money in a mutual fund you know it's like wow that's very cool good for y'all

well done very well done

congratulations all right it's uh you want to bring Isaac and Ruby up for the debt free scream Isaac Isaac come on so

sweet oh my gosh she's so cute seven

months seven months we're going to she's going to get scared to death when her mom and dad y I know the babies yeah

they always get a little frightened with the screams so great I love it all right

Ruben and Kirsten Isaac and Ruby's uh

Heroes they've changed their family tree

early 30s with a paid for House in

Colorado Springs meanwhile America sits

around in some places whining that it can't be done these two prove that it is

done every day this is what you call

Millennials this is what you call Millennials that win and we see them all

the time or gen Z Ruben and Kirsten paid

for house Colorado Springs 270 paid off

in 5 years making 72 to 172 count it

down let's hear a debt-free Scream 3 2 1

we yeah [Applause]

y as predicted scared poor Ruby to

death I think Isaac got a little got a

little scared too jumped there's a lot

going on there that's so great amazing

oh amazing yeah so for every time I hear

that you and I on the Ramsey Show and

Jade and George and we're out of touch

and we don't know what the real world is

today and you're speaking Boomer

language and all that kind of stuff all these negative things that are out there

then we meet people like them yep kson

and Reuben and they do I know not just

purchased a home but they paid it off in

five years in their 31 years and I think

it was making 112 not 172 72 to 112 I

wrote that down it looked like a seven no no but I'm saying you know so it's

it's not like they're making 300K right right exactly I mean it's it's amazing and it is it's discipline and it's choosing and now it's the the whole idea

that now oh my gosh there's no payments

there's no payments but they did it well Ruben said y'all could Replay that

monologue for over and over on Loop

because it's true I'm like you take respons yeah you take responsibility and it's amazing yeah he said the guy in my mirror had to change and he did I'm so

proud of him what a hero and he's got he

changed his kid's lives yes and Kiren

just killing it I'm amazing aming well done well done this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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apply Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is

my co-host Steven is is with us in

Chattanooga hi Stephen welcome to the Ramsey Show hello hi here we go so I'm about to be

divorced uh the income disparity between

my wife and I is pretty great so I have

um a large amount coming my way in a

Quadro and alony coming my way three

years of bonus money of her coming my

way we're going to be selling a home

here soon and I'll get about 100K out of

that I want to get myself into a house and have it paid for in the next few years I

don't have any um retirement or anything

set up yet I'm 46 my income is growing

rapidly I'm a brand new Barber I'll be a

make about 30,000 this year but I

believe every year probably go up about

10K okay where am I where am I going

with this what do I do with this Quadra I'm gonna have Quadra quadra's got to be

put into an IRA You' got to leave it alone if you cash that out you're going to get penalized in tax you got to leave it alone yeah so just pretend it doesn't

exist exactly you need to get with a smartvestor pro at Ramsey solutions.com

and find somebody to sit down with and they can help you do the rollover and you can move that into your own personal IRA and some mutual funds and have no taxes on it but if you pull it out and screw with it you're going to have taxes on it so leave it alone because it's in

her you're Tak all it is is a section of her 401K being sliced off for you

yeah that's all it is I had thought about using that for a down payment home

no no you're getting a hundred out of the home and you're getting what other money you said you're getting a couple of bonuses and other stuff how much money total yes not not counting the

qu uh four years of alimony 875 a month

and three years 25% of her bonus it'll

be about 8 to 10 grand each year oh it's

not all going to lump sum no the only lump Su the only lump

sum that we can touch then 8,000 you're

going to get 8,700 a

month is that what you said I'll be

getting I'll be getting about 1600 a month in alimon and child support oh okay okay okay I gotta okay yeah okay it's broken up over

four years and my income will be increasing over that time as well yeah

so I I'm going to be looking at putting a 100,000 down on a house that's what you've got yeah and just ignore that Quadro

yeah you you've got to um because it be

be like taking the money out at 30%

interest yeah cuz all just gets taxed

you're going to get taxed and a 10% penalty you're going to get hammered so

you leave that puppy alone and just go do you a house of some kind with 100 Down based on the current income that

you've got and you can count

um uh palamon you can count sh I mean

you can count all of that in terms of as

long as it's going to continue and and

that'll offset the fact that your income hasn't gone up or you can wait a year and let your income come up MH um and

then you've got a story to tell to a mortgage company showing tax returns as a new Barber that made this and then I made this and then I made this and here's a trend line and so it's reasonable to qualify you based on those

things you got to have two years tax returns uh as a new self-employed person

uh and then you'll be able to move forward on that but yeah just just take your time there's no reason uh you you

know you you are uh getting some money

out of the divorce but it is you it's

not exactly like you hit the lotto I mean it's it's a it's a nice amount of money but it's not it's going to not going to put you on Easy Street you're still going to be doing a bunch of

careful things there today's question of

the day comes from Taylor in

Mississippi Taylor says I'm currently 12

weeks pregnant with a baby girl from my

boyfriend I recently lost a loved one

who left me a large inheritance I have

$40,000 of debt and my boyfriend is debt

free do I take this inheritance and put towards my debt and then take what's left and put down 20% on a house my

boyfriend and I plan on getting married but for some reason he's really against getting married before I have the

baby that's weird okay

well I don't know why that would be the case but um yeah that mean that's what I

would do yeah I would take the inheritance I'd pay off your debt Taylor

I would keep everything so separate if you bought a house I would buy it on

what you make your income your life I

mean I I would be very very uh hesitant

to put him on anything I wouldn't put him on anything not hant just don't do

it and I probably wouldn't do anything until the baby comes I mean honestly I

don't think I would make a big decision like well pay off your pay off your debt pay off your debt but I wouldn't buy a house pregnant I would continue to rent

uh maybe rent for the next year or two then then hopefully you guys get married then after you have the baby and then

you guys together after you're married

look and see okay let's let's purchase a house but while you're pregnant I

probably I wouldn't take some of this inheritance and put it down payment I would just I would rent be where you are

for you know one to two years and then

from there see what happens relationally

if that changes um and then even just

financially at that point

yeah I'm old why is he there's a term

from my generation okay careful called

shotgun wedding oh yeah which um you got

a baby on the way buty you show up or Daddy's going to bring a

shotgun and help you show up oh my gosh that that's what that means that's where that comes from that's where that comes from I'm going to bring my shotgun and by God you're going to marry I just thought you meant a fast f okay no

that's that this is like disturbing but

I agree well I agree that it's weird that he's like really really against

getting married bass Awards I it's it's

just it's not weird it's just wrong and

and it just my warning bells are going

off like crazy mine is too but I don't want to force her into a marriage with a terrible guy so I'm

like right no I wouldn't no I would not

say just go get married right now he's

not a great guy Reas for some reason he doesn't yeah I'm okay so yeah don't put this guy's

name on anything until he is a husband and uh

period yeah under any circumstances and

don't put anybody you're not married to

period no matter how sweet and wonderful

they are their name on your freaking

house you get yourself in a

disaster this just H all right John's in

Colorado Springs hey John how are you

how are you good how are you thank you for taking my call sure so I've got a

bet with my wife on what we should do

with our side hustle money

so um we owe

102,000 left on our house we have no

other debt we have our rainy day fund

our money and savings we give 15% to our

401k and our

pension um we our interest rate on our

house is 2.2% I make between 30 and

60,000 on our side

hustle so I say that we take the 30 to

60 every year and put it in mutual funds

because the rate of return is greater than the 2.2% on the house my wife your

wife has been listening to the show and she set you up yeah she said that we

need to just pay off the house she set you up yeah I hope you didn't bet much

no John what we teach and have the

entire time we've been on the air for 30 years is that you pay off your house as fast as possible regardless of the interest rate beyond the 15%

because in studying the doing the

largest study of millionaires ever done in North America we talked to 10,000 167

of them let me tell you how many of

those 10,000 said we became a millionaire because we didn't pay off

our house and instead made more money by

investing the money in mutual funds out

of 10,167 what number said we are going to

go with John's plan zero zero not one

we've never met a millionaire who really did this we've met a lot of people who have a theory and discuss it the way

you're discussing it because you're a math guy like me and I I immediately go

to where you're going to um because

that's how I my math brain works you're looking at the spread but what your

spread doesn't take into

consideration is risk and the two elements of a paid for

the two elements of someone getting a fir their first one to five million is

typically their 401K being well funded

which is 15% of your income going in you're doing that and a paid for house

and so you're on track if if you follow

her plan to be a millionaire faster than

if we follow your plan based on the data

that we've studied of actual millionaires not with mathematical

Theory um because the math theory of

what you're bringing up is reasonable

but uh the actual facts are when you pay

off your house other stuff changes in

your life and you tend to excel in your

career and do other things you can invest the mortgage payment yeah exactly

you don't have one yeah you can invest the mortgage payment like crazy you go

overdrive this is the ramsy show

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today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth

do work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Rachel crew is

Ramy personality number one bestselling author my daughter is my co-host today

thanks for hanging out with us open phones at 8825 5225 Claire is with us in South Bend

Indiana hi Claire how are you hi Dave

I'm doing great how about yourself better than I deserve what's up well

first I just want to tell you really quick met my husband one of the first

dates we had he told me that his dad

raised him with a Bible in one hand and a Dave Ramsey book in the other that's how I kind of was introduced to you so I thought that'd be funny to kind of share that's that's a

little scary

actually it's let us on some good tasks

here so good how can we help today I'm

calling I wanted to ask you um as you

both know daycare costs are really high

um we are expecting our second ch in

August which we're really excited about

um we both work my husband and I full-time and so daycare is our as our

option in life right now um when it

comes to trying to figure out in our budget we're on baby step 456 um kind of like how to best budget

for the upcoming expensive daycare um we

are kind of at a loss with we can't

afford it and that's that's not an issue

but it's where does it come out you know

we're trying to figure out with our budget does it maybe impact us putting

right now we're putting 15% each into

retirement for a season until my older

son can go to a less expensive daycare

do we put maybe 10% into retirement each

so we have a little bit more room to

give to the daycare for our second child

when he goes to daycare or you know kind

of trying to figure that out um what's

your household income

we currently make 121 a year okay so 15%

is 20,000 bucks okay yeah and uh daycare

is how much um right now we pay

$311 a week for our son so that's

roughly depending on you know the month it could be between 15 and one two um 1,200

1,500 um but with the second child we

get a small 10% discount and it could be

anywhere between 2,100 a month to 2,700

a month of a daycare we're currently at

yeah so it'll be three grand a month is

what you guys will be paying yep in daycare and how much do you make a year

so I currently make 55 a year okay and

my husband makes um I think when I broke

it down it's 6 oh that's right you said

121 household yep sorry I had that

number okay that's great um yeah do you

guys have have Claire do you guys have margin in your budget when you budget month to month do you have money that you're putting away in savings just for other things is there um what does your

budget look like yeah so typically in a

month we put towards retirement and some

other savings um about

1,300 um and then extra we have left

over for like you know gas we we donate

to our church um groceries household

items you know utensils or things like

that um so we do have you know we budget

as quick close as you can um with

everything but just trying to figure out

when before baby comes and everything else like how much more do we save um if

and then that only last us for so long

and again this is only for a short period of time because our son could go

to a different daycare when he's four um

the oldest and it would be a third of the cost so it's not going to be forever

that we would be in this predicament but just for a short period of time we're just going to be at a a higher daycare cost yeah yeah um yeah I mean I think in

a perfect world you're finding that

margin other places and what that looks

like because that 15% um is I mean that that's a key part

for you guys in the future and so I don't know what what other lifestyle um expenses look like of of of

Shoring those up maybe you know saying

hey we got to find some margin other places um in that budget because you

know I think that's the hard thing too the reality of like oh my gosh kids they do they cost they cost a lot and especially when you're talking about something an expense like daycare it is it's so pricey um so yeah I mean in a

perfect world you're going to you would find that extra 1300 elsewhere but for you guys um you

don't you know at that point though you don't have an option and for me chop for $30,000 a year I'm going to start looking at Alternatives too I'm not going to just accept that as the only possible method yeah and that's something I started to look into as well um one other option we

discussed was um not contributing to the

529 plan for a little while for our son

because my mom's I'm talking about other daycare options yes that too when we

have looked at other dayare option 30,000 bucks yeah but 300 $311 a week I

mean that's pretty standard I mean that's not unreasonable that's not an unreasonable amount when I but it gives

me a lot of thoughts when I start

talking about $330,000 a year y

um I can I can start thinking about a lot of different things then so um but

yeah you know I would look at all that

and I'm with Rachel it probably one of

the last places I would go would be to the retirement I would do 529 before retirement yeah I would I agree I agree

so much I'd pull that off and then I I'm

I really would honestly look at

alternatives on the daycare because it's

such an honorous amount as a percentage of your

budget that they have priced themselves

out of somebody who makes $120,000 a

year and that's yeah they pric

themselves out of it and so um you're

not far from affording a

nanny for 30k I mean not far at all so

um I mean it can be done so I I the

these I start thinking about it different it's kind of like you know if you're going to charge me $120,000 a year for a nursing home uh for $120,000

a year I can hire a full-time in-house

Butler yeah you can't do buy a reclining

bed yes I know I know but I know her

feeling and I've and I've done the research even locally like the moms that work here at Ramsay I'm like it is it's it is a it is a crazy expense and then

you start and then you do you ask as for so many women you ask the question is it even worth it right it's the 20,000

extra is so instead of making 121 we

make a 100 is that worth right I mean

like you you have to play out all these different scenarios but it does this part though it makes me as a mom with little ones it is it it it it sucks

because they have trapped us in a sense

it can feel like that with the prices

they go up as people going when you so they're open

they stay open they're paying it when when price raises to a certain point the

volume comes down that's Supply demand

and so you're you're they're reaching the top of this because this has been a discussion like 10 times in the last year well yeah yeah and and it's like 37% it's risen it's risen since 2020 I'm

like it's just it's it's crazy it is

crazy so they do they will end up and

that's what we talked to so many women that just end up saying hey I'll just

I'll stay home right like if you have three kids right I mean you start to actually see I'm working 40 hours and after taxes and daycare I net five grand

screw that right you know no thank you

that doesn't make sense Y and uh she's

almost there she's almost there not

quite with her numbers but um well and

the four-year-old will go to a less expensive school right so there you got you got to light at the end of the tunnel with that exctly I know but

that's so hard Claire so hard I hope

that's helpful yeah thanks for calling

this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause] [Music]

regel Cruz Ramsey personality is my my

co-host today the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a monthly plan people that

win plan to win and that includes money

and it's called a budget your budget

should give every dollar an assignment

every dollar a mission every dollar a name before the month begins and you and your spouse agree on it if you're married every dollar is our budgeting

app the world's best budgeting app one

of the largest these days millions of

people joining in the last just a little

it's crazy y'all thank you so much by

the way it's an easy to ous app that fits into your busy lifestyle you and your spouse can both have access to it see what's going on you can keep a pulse on your spending make progress on your money goals download every dollar for

free in the app store or Google play

today and you can even get it at every doll online at every doll.com just for

your desktop if you want uh Briana is

with us in Columbus Ohio hi Briana how

are you I'm doing well how are you guys

better than we deserve what's up so

quick question so I'm going to keep this

try to keep this short and sweet so my

in-laws are on one income and my

mother-in-law has not worked in about 18

years um around that time and she's just

been making sure that everything's taken

care of at the house and so my

father-in-law doesn't bring in all that

much uh you know they they pretty much

they're okay but they don't have any

term life insurance no I don't believe they have

anything for savings um my

father-in-law I'm concerned about him

with his work um because he does have a risk

of uh more he's more at risk for injury

because his health and so my question

for you guys is you know with us

children and daughter-in-laws and such

is there something that we need to be doing in case something happens to our

my father and La just hand handling your

money I mean if you become wealthy the

wealthier you become the more able you are to help right yeah and that's why

I'm asking because I am I'm in my mid

20s and I'm trying to get a good handle

on my money you know I'm starting the

baby steps uh that's the best thing you

can do for them okay is to get you

strong the weak can't help the strong

can't help the weak yeah and that's so

what how do you how would you recommend I best do this do I do a no just baby

steps just go you go become

wealthy if you've got money you'll have

some money you don't have to have a parent

account if you got a million dollars in

a mutual fund and they have a problem

you can help them right yes it doesn't

have to be it doesn't have to have their name on it should I do a high yield

savings or no you ought to follow the baby steps okay

exactly that's the fastest method to you

becoming wealthy and the best thing you

can do for them is for you to become

wealthy okay but no you should not

truncate your retirement savings and say

are your kids college and say I'm not doing baby steps four and five instead

I'm going to have a a father-in-law account no thank you no no no no no

no yeah and Briana have you guys talked

to them about their money like do you

know all this for a fact is your husband

like like you guys know

this so we you know that they do not

have really anything saved have they T

have they said anything about what their plans are is he just planning on working

longer he's kind of just planning to

work until he can't

okay yeah and so I mean and too I would

say this to Brianna I wouldn't be like overly stressed about it because at this point you can't do anything to help they can't help themselves right and nothing has happened yet right it's it's not like oh my gosh my father-in-law is now

on workers comp because he got an injury and my my mother-in-law now has to go back to work how do I help navigate the situ like there is no situation right now there could be so I think you know

being wise about the people around you the family unit around you of saying

this is our life and this could be

coming in the future um but right now

today yeah I'm with Dave you just yeah

you guys you and your husband you guys start doing this you start walking down the baby steps and if you have the

ability to help if they need help then

you guys get to choose that at that point will is in West Palm Beach Florida

hi Will hey how are youall doing better

than we deserve what's up so quick question for you I'll keep

it brief uh long story short I graduated

college last May and I moved back home

in let's see July last July so I've been

home got a job in November so I've been

working um I make roughly 75 ,000 a year

bring home 4,400 um I got my masses I let my mom

handle all the finances for that uh so

in February there was a little bit of a surprise to me that I was $70,000 in

debt $7,000 student loans so I've been

paying off those trying to throw about

$3,000 a month towards this so I paid

off uh roughly

$6,400 um I've got $35,000 saved up and

I'm wondering that's a high yield savings account so I'm wondering would it be wise to put that towards it right

now yes or just continue and in the same

in the same day that you do that which is today you take control of your own

money you have a master's degree you're

a grown man yep you need to manage your money

not your mother and then right after

that we need to start talking about where a $75,000 a year college

graduate's going to live that's not his mother's house

right so three things yeah move out take

control of your life and write a check and pay down the student loans ding ding

ding ding ding ding ding and all of a

sudden this stuff's going to start lining up for you like crazy what's your

Master's in man uh Finance Investments

okay good all right so so you can handle

this then right oh of course okay good I

would be more was yeah yeah yeah pay it

pay it towards pay it towards the debt yeah let's get the debt cleaned up as fast as you can for 35,000 I mean you

obviously took advantage of not having

the rent to pay right living with living

at your parents you took advantage of it because you have saved which is awesome pay them oh you do okay well I was gonna

say you have 35,000 saved so you're doing something right yeah you need to

take over control of your own money immediately you need to make plans to move out in the next 30 to 60 days and

have yourself a life and um you need to

pay down on student loan as fast and furiously as you can because your number

number one wealth building tool is not

interest rates your number one wealth

building tool is your income and when

it's not going to someone else in the form of debt payments Building Wealth

becomes fairly easy especially well for

a guy like you who knows numbers and has

done a great job of saving money you did

an amazing job to Rachel's Point well

and will I mean at this season of Life

yeah I would do exactly what he said I'd go get a part-time job I would go drive Uber I would do something four days four

nights a week and just make a crap ton

of money right now and pay this off get

this knocked out as fast as you possibly

can and just say for 12 months I'm going

to just work and get this get this out

of here because um because it can be

done and you're in the perfect season to do it right I'm like you really are you're um I find you know there I mean I

think it does get harder when there's

another spouse involved right because you got you got another person to consider then you have kids and like as

you kick the can down the road

there there's more elements to your life

that you're having the bad news is when you're single there's no one to hold you accountable the good news is is you don't have to mess with anybody else to make a decision to change your life that's right you can just decide to do it today yep today it's great well and

let me say this I mean I feel I I feel

for you will because he had no clue he had the 70,000 he said his mom took care of all the money stuff during college

and then he realized oh my gosh now I have 70 grand is that what he said it kind of surprised him so parents talk to

your kids say it out loud have the discussion

because that that sucks that happened to

one of my friends they went to pull a loan for a mortgage and on her credit

report there was a student loan that they didn't know about no one no one

said anything about it so communicate parents communicate this

is the ramsy show

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a [Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host Jade is in Ottawa Ontario hi

Jade how are you I'm good how are you

better than I deserve what's

up yeah so I had um a couple of

questions so this year uh kind of fell

on a little bit of Hard Times uh when it

comes to finances so um I have roughly

$237,000 in debt um

$25 of that is in a

mortgage and the rest is car loans uh

line of credit and credit

card um so I'm a single parent and I am

only bringing in roughly

$3500 a month um so the debt is starting

to become overwhelming I'm wondering if

when did you buy the house um I bought the house in 2018 so

the house is worth about

$630,000 now MH

because you don't make a ton of money the house doesn't sound completely unreasonable but my guess is what's your mortgage payment a month so um when I

first got in the house I had a a really

low rate um but now that I've had to

renew um my mortgage payment has went

from $1,000 a month to

$1400 a month

okay um yeah I mean you're bumping up

close to 50% of your income being your

mortgage yeah and then um I had um why

did you not take a fixed why did you not take a fixed rate mortgage um so I did take a fixed rate I

had um um I had a fixed rate before and

then when I renewed I took a fixed rate

as well why why would you renew if you

had a fixed rate so here in Canada you have to renew

it's not like in the US so so the rate

the rate adjust par the rate adjusts each time

you renew yes so there's only variable rate

interest rate mortgages in Canada I did not know that no there's F there's fixed

it's not fixed if it if it goes up every

year no you gotta when you renew how often do you have to renew so you can

either choose a three-year fix or a

fiveyear fix and fiveyear is the maximum

that you can hold a rate for in Canada

wow I just learned something yeah

unfortunately well that sucks I did know

that yeah I knew something around those lines um okay Jay do you see your income

going up anytime

soon um so the thing is I have a

business and because of um all the money

that I've been spending I haven't been able to um put much into marketing for

my business so it's kind of been at a

stand still is that your income is your

business or is that a side hustle it's

my

business okay all right so here's the

Here's the the the straight on solution

okay you either sell the house or you

get your income

up because you cannot keep this house

with this income it's not sustainable that's why that's where the stress is coming from yeah you that in a car payment

credit card set I mean it's a lot yeah well the car payment the credit card came because you couldn't afford the house and then when you can't afford the house you don't have any margin left to save so you rent stuff up on credit cards right exactly yeah yeah the house

the house squeeze is showing up in the credit cards what do you do what's your business Jade um so I have a commercial cleaning

company okay so we clean offices okay

because you're making Pro I mean it's around I mean 3500 a month right I mean

you're you're bringing in 45 a year I'm

just wondering if you can find something that you're making 60 gr right I'm like just any up are are you fully

booked um we're not fully booked okay I

don't know why you have to spend money all you got to do is go knock on doors and get you some

clients yeah yeah so I'm I'm trying I've

been trying to do that I've been a little bit busy with work and my son but

um that's definitely something that I'm GNA Ser if if you don't do that you're G

to have to sell your

house I was think thinking would renting

it out be a good idea no you don't need

to be a landlord you're

broke that's a bad idea yes it's a

really bad idea yes either get your

income up or sell it uh because you know

you and I think you ought to go get your income up that's what I think you ought to do I think you're going to have to focus on this is a good I mean like you know 1,400 bucks a month is not terrible

right and now compared to income it is but man if you can get that income up

then that I mean you're in a good spot you have so much Equity I mean if you can get 4,000 a month it's from 3500 it

changes the whole equation automatically

and then you can start working your way out of the credit card debt do away with those and start living on a budget and

being in control but no there's turning

yourself into a landlord when you're broke Makes You Broker uh landlords you need money to be

a landlord you you need cash you need

margin it doesn't make you money it it's

it's a problem at first especially when

you're this Tight cuz this house is not

going to rent for much more than than

your payment so you're not no no no no

no no no no don't go that way please

stay away from that dimma is with us in

Baltimore Hi dimma how are

[Music] you one more time let's try

it said okay oh no we're gonna put you

on hold until we can get your phone straightened out Riley's in Salt Lake

City hi Riley how are you good how are

you doing better than I deserve what's

up awesome thanks for having me um I've

just got a question in regards to baby

step two um working baby step two we've

got two car

loans and they're both underwater so I'm

looking we're looking to go down to one car for a family to try and speed this

process up um but I just don't really

know what to do in this situation where

we're we're underw what are your what are your numbers Riley what what what do

you owe on the cars and how much are they worth um so the we have a truck

which is a dumb decision but it's it's

got 36,000 left on the loan it's worth

31 okay and then we have a car um the

loan's 8,000 but it's probably about it's

probably worth about 3500 okay and what do you what's your

household income uh 990,000 okay all right and um

do you have any

money uh not too much really I mean we

just have the ,000 saved up from baby

step one and good who said the truck's worth 31 uh I just lik did Kelly Blue Book

private sale or tradein private sale

okay all right so you need 5K who do you

owe the 36 to on the truck who's the

lean holder uh it's just a Local Credit Union

Perfect go down there sit down talk to them tell them you want to sell the truck and sign a note for the difference okay they'll cut they'll let

you do that cuz they already don't have

fully collateralized loan meaning the

truck is not worth what you owe so

they're already have 5,000

unsecured right and if you just now have

a 5,000 unsecured and you drive the old

car until you get your mess cleaned up here uh which making 90 you'll be able

to turn the corner pretty quick on this but you've identified where the source pot is and it's this truck it's killing

you right right the debt do you guys

have Riley uh that'll be that'll be the last

of the debt we oh so eight grand on the

car and you'll be done yeah that's amazing that's great I

mean that feels good right getting 31

off off knock that out and save up like

crazy and either move up in the one car

family or move into a two-car family

again and then move up one HS got you

either one I don't care which you do but

yeah I think you're probably moving back into the car business after you get the

other one paid off and this gone and um

you know

uh yeah 4,000 sounds a lot better than

36,000 yeah yeah and that's great and

then save up and you get a used truck

later yeah that's what I would do if I

was in your shoes dump the truck and sign a note for the difference at the credit union and that like you said that

just pushes it on out

there open phones atle 8825 522 2 5

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our scripture the today John 15:16 you

did not choose me but I chose you and

appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit fruit that will last and so

what that whatever you ask in my name the father will give you Bill Murray said whatever you do always give 100%

unless you're donating blood my

gosh that's funny I have not heard

that's good Ross is in Dallas Texas hi

Ross welcome to the ramsy show

hey Dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up uh so I have just over $42,000 in

student loan debt at a 5.625 interest

rate and I'm wondering if I should take

some of the contributions out of my Roth IRA I currently have about a60 ,000

balance and put them towards the the

student loan debt

no no simple enough I never I never take

U money out of retirement to pay off debt unless just to avoid bankruptcy your foreclosure um because that money is going to grow tax-free that you've got in there to such a large amount that it would just be disturbing to me that you

lost a million dollar taxfree account for doing this and that's what it would be at your age how old are you I'm 32

yeah that's what I thought and so yeah so what's your household income uh 100,000 I I will be getting

married next year and that'll make it about 180 oh cool and you and you only

have $40,000 in debt yes sir oh so

you'll be debt free in a year yeah good

no I would not sacrifice my Roth IRA on

the alar of a

year okay yeah I just was looking at the

repayment calculator and I you know just

trying to consider as an options because the the monthly payments are I feel like you know really hold me back no no no no no you misunderstand $40,000 in less

than a year I don't give a crap what your calculator said I want you to pay off your stinking loan now you make 100

you're getting ready to make 180 I want that gone out of your income lowered your

lifestyle if you make $180,000 a year

you can't find 40K in 12 months you know

now that's after you're married I understand when's the marriage uh should be next July okay

good so I mean between now and then I'd

love for you uh a year from

July a year from this July yes sir okay

all right so you have a year at 100K to work on it if you don't get it knocked

out during that time shortly after marriage I want you to knock it out but I'd love for you to knock it out out out of your hundred or do you have the ability to work extra and do I mean anything else you can sell other than trashing your wroth but yeah that kind of stuff you let's just get in attack mode and say

I'm going to live on 60,000 which is

just below average household income in America as a single guy for one year and

knock this out yeah I mean after tax you

get a 100 after tax is 80 right so you

live on 40 put 40 that's two years and

like but then you're going to be married so I mean it's it's a process for sure

but also I would say R El to go work

extra up your income yeah you're making a hundred which is awesome um but it's

just that again it's that singular focus

of saying what can I do to pay this off

earlier and run those numbers th those are numbers you could be running if I made an extra two grand a month doing

this or you know whatever it looks like

um there yeah there's power in that yeah

and it's kind of a thing what if you

made it into a game and said okay as a matter of personal Pride I'm going to walk into this marriage debt

free now game

on just kind of make it a game you know

and so okay now what have I got to do yeah lots of work selling stuff not

going out to eat da D and it turns into a game then um it it's not life or death

but if you treated it like it was you could make it and that's kind of my point and then

for sure for sure when you're making 180

if there's any left if you guys don't knock that out real fast that's pretty lame so now you don't

need a payment calculator to figure that out 180 minus 40 or 100 plus overtime

and extra jobs minus 40 that that that's

your calculator that's what you're dealing with and then uh minus lifestyle

oh wait I don't have a life because I work all the time because I'm getting out of debt oh that's okay too I like that one that's a plan that you know I

would just make it a matter of Pride I think it' be kind of cool and pausing to

Ross your you're investing no more

contributions to that Roth so wait so that could free up a couple thousand bucks too right a year depending on what you're putting in your WTH so that's that's good too stop all investing temporarily while you attack your debt

that's maybe step two okay uh for those

of you that are new to this ramsy game

Dan is in Atlanta hi Dan how are you hey

Dave doing well how are you better than

I deserve what's up in your world sir

hey I figured you'd say that um so

wanted to get your thoughts on something

I am buying a house which is really

exciting now I'm wanting to maximize my down payment and really when I started the

year I wasn't gonna be buying a house so

I bought a new truck uh that I paid cash

for and so my question to you is should

I liquidate the truck take that down or

take that cash and put that to the down

payment of the house just to enhance

going Beyond that 20% or would you say

hey just go in at what you're doing

currently what what is the truck

worth 39,000 and what's your household

income uh over a 100 okay and are you

single no married okay and what's her

car worth uh we actually lease her car for

200 a month no nothing

down okay

um

well no I I would not worry about

putting extra down on the house until we got her car paid off okay her car needs to be paid off

you still have debt on it a car lease is

not renting a house a car lease is an

alternative form of financing so that is

a debt you're in debt on her car and you

need to clean that up before we talk about anything else so if you sell your truck or if you don't sell your truck her car debt needs to be going away very quickly and if you

need to sell your truck to do that then that's something we can talk about um

but that's you know you should be doing that before you start talking about buying a house and certainly before you start talking about putting extra down on a house we should be clearing her her

debt on that or the debt on her car and

um so that's the route to go there yeah

and we always say anything with wheels and Motors not to be more than 50% of

your take-home pay and of your of your

income of your household income of your household income and you're at 40 Grand so you're I mean you're getting up there I mean it was a nice truck for what you make right if you include her car if her

if her car's value is over 10 grand then

yeah your truck needs to go on that basis right yeah you probably have too

much truck and I think you kind of knew that and that's why you made the call so yeah let's sell the truck get you a decent truck out of the um out of the

proceeds and pay off her car and

whatever's left though that is extra down payment that's what I would do mhm

yeah but you that's a good point Rachel I didn't didn't keep up with that part

of the math on this but yeah you can really get into a pinch there but that's

great though saving 20% Dan I mean for a

down payment that's that's a that's a

conversation that again people have been having a lot recently with the housing market so we always applaud and congratulate there's other stuff for you to do before you do that but um but you

guys have been saving really well so that's great yeah you're way ahead of the game on that um Rachel's right so

congrats on that I'm glad you're getting and and you're right you know the way your brain's working is say okay what's

more important houses or cars well

financially houses by far your personal

residence is going to go up in value your stupid $40,000 truck's going to be worth 10,000 in about 20 minutes they go

down in value Like a Rock that's where

Chevy got that like a rock and so oh

wait I drive a Ford no well that's found

on the road to appreciated f o r d so

there you go it's all goes down in value boys and girls it all goes down in value so yeah that's I yeah where you're you

know so your brain's telling you I'm going to put money in something that's appreciating instead of depreciating it's like um I drove up in

my 20s I had bought a Jaguar I thought I was a just such a fun I know that you I

thought it was a ba but like I never

hear of Jaguar it's not like a Mercedes

or a BMW that I feel like is a that's why I bought it cuz I come from a neighborhood where we couldn't spell jaguar so so but I drove up and my grandpa's

like what's that and I'm like well it's

a jaguar and he goes what that cost and it was like the 80s and it was 30 grand

you know and holy crap yeah it was

expensive and he goes that was dumb I'm

like why is that dumb it's a nice car and he said it's going to go down in value and I said what's an investment said my investments go up in value son

there's a grandpa lesson right there

that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial piece and that's to walk daily

with the prince of peace Christ Jesus

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## 187. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 15, 2021)


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| **Video ID** | `r1efdVyzBGA` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1efdVyzBGA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:16 |

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this is ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice dr john deloney ramsay personality best-selling author and host of an explodingly popular podcast i got to come up with a better phrase than that but

but it is healthy explodingly is explodingly popular it's uh it's it's yeah there's a lot well anyway but dave you've been there for 30 years there's a lot of people listening to it in a very short period of time and i i'm proud of it and i

uh i'm proud of you and i love that it's popular because what you're putting out there the material the answers to questions in people's lives is absolutely valuable and it is uh it's unique and it's fresh and refreshing and so i'm glad that i'm glad the curve on the listenership is through the roof i appreciate that plus i just like being associated with a big hit well

and i think 30 years you've been making up words so why start now stop now right we're going to go with exploding this isn't the season to fix your grammar dave so i say explodingly let's do it man i'm in it's uh it's a little late in life because um number one i'm beyond help number two i just really don't care that's that's the the traffic the dufecta that one does

it right there so open phones if you want to talk to this couple of clowns open triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll talk about your life and your money uh the call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it laura is with us in los angeles hey laura welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up um i'm a little nervous i'm going to try to calm down you'll be fine we've never lost a patient you'll make

it okay my husband and i are at um total odds kind of right now what to do about a decision and so um we're calling you

so we're new listeners we've only been listening for a couple months but we've listened a lot and so basically we're 50 and 60 years old all of our money is in uh real estate

we've done well in real estate we have about six thousand six million dollars in a paid off real estate it's all rentals i hate it when that happens

and we probably made some stupid decisions but we were lucky and it worked out i think you've made some good decisions somewhere okay so anyway where we're at right now is everything is owned outright except for our personal residence and a vacation home in palm springs that's very successful airbnb um our personal residence is worth like 1.6 million and we owe 350 000 on it and on a rental home is worth about a million and we also owe 350 000 on it my husband

wants us to sell a paid off rental that's about

worth about 350 000. they'll be on free and clear it brings in about two thousand dollars a month and it's really it's a condo it's easy you know it's just the money just comes in he wants to sell that to pay off our palm springs airbnb

just so he just feels like he's 60. now

he just wants to not have that debt you know he wants to just have a home mortgage then he wants to really attack the home mortgage this whole debt free idea is brand new to us you know so um and i want to keep it because we have no retirement other than renters we have no

stocks we have no i have 6 million in real estate we

no whining allowed this condo is not going to break your retirement bank right sorry uh i mean it's okay

why so why did he pick that condo to sell out of all the other properties um he wants to sell something and i think he well also the our tenant just moved out so vacant which california rent laws would make it easier you know to sell a vacant unit and so it's just sitting there and rented you know it's just and we're at a stalemate like kind of locking

the heads and i said well why don't we take rent it take the 2000 and since we don't need that to live on it just attack the palm springs mortgage you know and then we could just and if they're already on 15-year fix that we're already only 13 years old what is your household income it's all off of rental properties is your income all off of rental basically yeah

so what did you take in in cash that you put in your pocket that you paid taxes on last year 200 000 on six million

well yeah well it was like 340 is what it brings in but then we have we write off a lot yeah i'm talking about not i'm not talking about uh depreciation but i mean you have actual expenses that eat your cash i would hope you're making 340 after

expenses on six million dollar portfolio

uh well maybe it's just because real estate's so expensive like our home is in that you know what i mean

you should have 340 000 income

net of expenses before depreciation

on six million dollar portfolio anyway that's still low but you ought to at least have that yeah

so what is the cash after expenses before depreciation that you guys have coming in to work with um i'm not sure okay

well that'd be a good number to have okay because that's called your income right that's what you have to work with because if i wanted to answer the question how fast can i pay off 700 000 worth of real estate debt i would need to know what my income is to do that with i will tell you 24 000

on a property that's worth 350 000 as your gross income meaning you're netting somewhere around 17 000 really sucks the roi on that condo

is pretty full yeah it's bad

i don't care if it's low if it's not got much hassle you're not you know you're not making a you're making what four percent on your money mm-hmm that sucks so i

thought i was hoping maybe you're gonna tell me he picked it out because the income's horrible on it but um i know it's just that it's empty yeah right now okay yeah well i i'm as you know from listening for just a few weeks i'm going to lead you to be debt-free as fast as i can so the answer to your question is going to be you have to go back

and do some homework and you guys have to keep talking because you need to get to the bottom of this so number one we need these properties to be producing and a cash on cash

rate of return that is substantial

okay number two once that's our income once we know what our income is number two how fast if we keep the condo can we get

these 750 000 worth of debt cleared

how many years is that going to take how many years is that going to take five years six years seven years he's 60 years old he doesn't want to leave you with that mm-hmm and that's that's the goal okay he's trying to take care of you so uh then then uh if you if it's going

to take you 15 years because you're really making 200 000 on this 6 million because your your real estate sucks um if that's really all you're making on it and it's going to take you 10 or 15 years to clear this yeah you need to sell the condo because you need to clear this debt as a part of preparing for him to not be there or if the golden years whatever we want to call these these next this next decade or two if

you're if however you're making three or four hundred thousand dollars that you have cash on at your fingertips which i suspect you should be i mean unless these properties are just not well run uh you should be well yeah okay i feel like because everything's so expensive it's not anything to do with it right okay if a property is worth

a million dollars it should rent for a price the rental price should reflect the value of the property right if you've raised the prices as the values have gone up because rents go up as values go up and

so anyway i own several hundred thousand dollars several hundred million dollars of real estate i love real estate so it's my you're my sandbox right now kiddo so you either need to clear the debt with your income or you need to clear the debt by selling the condo in the next five years now you run the numbers out and decide which one's the best hey folks i got a

great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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well speaking of real estate if you've ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end you know you didn't do your research me too most people make choices based on

feelings or opinions especially when buying a house but when it comes to the real estate market feelings aren't your friend facts are well john says that about a lot of things so check your facts find out what you can actually afford research what's trending in home prices talk to a reputable real estate agent in your area

never buy a house again without fax

text the word house to 33

789 to get an agent who will help you make smart decisions text house three

seven eight nine sarah is

with us in dallas texas hi sarah welcome to the ramsey show hello thank you so much for having me sure how can i all right well um my husband and i are

in baby step two and uh since december of 2019 we've paid off fifty eight thousand dollars all right and we only have about three here we're very proud of that but we are on the second half of our debt now and that's 37 000 left in student loans but due to increased costs of having a second child over last year and taking a job of a decreased salary our shovel is substantially smaller compared to what

it used to be so i'm trying to think of ways brainstorm ways to be gazelle intense given a new situation and i had this crazy idea and my husband was not super thrilled with it and actually asked me if i could call you to talk about it what if we paid off our paid or what if we sold our paid off cars um if we did that

it would be a big step but it would wipe out this 37k immediately and we could then focus on

all of the other things that we need to do and then you have a forty thousand dollars back into a car we have two twenty three

thousand dollar cars oh you'd sell both your cars yes that's

why it's a big step what would you and then you get your two beaters huh yes maybe not beaters and what is your house what is your household income

140 000 a year

and why can you not pay off 37 making 140 000 um so we bring home 8 800 a month which is a lot and we're very fortunate um 5 000 of it goes between daycare and our mortgage they're about the same that's over five thousand dollars uh we spent a thousand on groceries diapers household things your day care is 60 000 a year

uh yeah but well between the two kids uh we pay 2 200 a month so not 50 000 a year

that's that's not five thousand oh five mortgage plans i'm sorry it's between day care and mortgage oh yeah okay 104 140

i don't know why mortgage and daycare are on the same list but anyway we'll put them there so 140 minus 60 isn't that isn't that 80.

140 minus 60 is 80. yeah why can you not

pay off 37 000 again so i can pay off thirty seven

thousand dollars i have a thousand based on our no our debt snowball i have a thousand dollars a month going towards that i don't think your budget is very sacrificial and that's true there are other things that we could we could yeah like you're still doing a whole bunch of crap that you don't need to be doing okay well then we'll take a look at that and make

it a little bit i mean help me with this because i'm not just making this up i mean i just took 140 and i took out the mortgage and i took out the daycare which were your two primary things you're worried about you don't have any payments except except a student loan payment and we took care of daycare and we took care of the mortgage now we got to buy lights water

and food and you can't find 37 thousand dollars

that's just weird um okay well looking

looking at our budget and the growth that we come home with like i said it's 8800 yeah that's 120 000. that's 120 absolutely minus well and that's our growth right that's what we take home after taxes or our net i'm sorry now i know and then we take uh and then it's about a thousand dollars on food diapers other household items that's 12.

um a thousand on student loans

about seven hundred dollars in bills and at the end of the month we may have an extra five hundred dollars left which will go towards um towards our species you did not get down to five hundred dollars your budgets you're still not doing it i'm sorry i'm the only thing i'm good at is math and you still did not spend all that money so you've got some work to do kiddo sharpen z pencil sharpen the pencil

uh so one car maybe but i don't think so you're putting a thousand dollars a month towards 37 that's 12 of the 37 so all you need

is 24 000 all you got to do is find 24 000 out of 140 120 take home pay for one year and to do it in one year then if you want to do it in two years all you need is twelve thousand dollars i'll do it in one year just get it done with it i i really think you can do it i really think that there's some

i i think there's some whining in this budget i really do yeah it does it sounds like i want to be comfortable let me tell you i'll go further i don't think you're doing the whole budget because you're you're doing this from your head that's why you've got daycare and diapers broken out of separate line items they're you know diapers don't go in a separate line item they're not that big a line item you're you're trying to crack crank

this through in your brain you need to sit down and do a written detailed line-by-line budget

with every dollar every dot get on the every dollar app with your husband the two of you give every dollar a name and you're gonna see where why i'm why i'm raising up on you you're going to see there's money left here and you can knock this out no you don't need to sell your cars you need to tighten your budget and lower your stinking lifestyle and

i actually think that when she first called dave i was going to say yes sell your cars and be done with this thing but i think i think the exercise oh it's right it's much better than selling the cars yeah this is going to be a uh i hate to use this working a spiritual exercise for this crew to get down and and see what you're made of yeah yeah

this is going to force you to do the last 10 of truth yes which is the hardest is the detailed budget because you can i mean you could do big piece budgets in your head and when you make 140 grand you just feel like you got so much wiggle room right and you should have and it's frustrating when you get to the end of the month and there's no money money left

but you haven't detailed it out i'm i might be wrong but i'm not i'm not be

wrong but i'm not been doing this too long so that's my opinion you keep digging on it kiddo if we can help you we're here to help you but part of the time we help you by um by raising up because we love you we want you to win all right up next is going to be armin armin's in los angeles hey armin how are you good how are

you guys better than i deserve what's up all right so before i get into my question i just want to give some context on my situation right now so i'm 17 years old i'm on my last semester at a community college and i'm about to transfer to a uc school but i'm faced with two different um

conflicting opinions so

i'm faced with the dilemma where if i transfer to uc irvine i would need to rent out a private house through uc irvine housing and on the other hand if i go to ucla i'll need to get a car um but it's that question of

should i lease or should i buy because my surroundings of family and friends are they're they're both raising pretty good arguments for leasing and buying so i don't know what a car

oh okay well the only people that promote leasing a car are broke people

okay i mean the wealthy people don't

lose cars i mean a few of them do but but by and large let me tell you we did a study of 10 000 millionaires the largest study of millionaires ever done none of them not a single one of the ten

thousand said you know i became a millionaire because i i really leveraged the use of that car by borrowing on it

yeah not one i mean it wasn't a small

percentage it was freaking zero armin now this is

not your broke friend or family member who can make an intellectual argument this is real millionaires they don't borrow money on cars dude and when you ask them what the largest mistake they ever made in their working lifetime they usually say i borrowed to buy brand new cars i bought a new car i bought a brand new car when i was 26 and i was so stupid

when i was 26 and now i'm 46 and i'm i would have been a millionaire four years sooner if i hadn't bought that stupid buck car on payments that i couldn't afford to buy so to answer your question norman i drove a 1988 twitter turcel easy hatchback it cost a thousand bucks i bought it from some lady at my church whose husband had passed away and that got me through my undergraduate

it got me through my first year of my professional job and that's still driving somewhere right yep buy the cheapest beater car you can get to get to and from you're a 18 year old kid don't take financial advice from broke people son this is the ramsey show

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sean and char are in denver and it says on my screen that you guys are debt free

congratulations thank you how much have you paid off

we paid off a hundred thousand dollars in 27 months wow good for you and your range of income during that time it's actually pretty steady we are about a hundred thousand dollars a year okay so kind of like the lady i was talking to a minute ago making 140 to pay off 37 they paid off 127 months making 100. exactly so i have to hear the story now because it seems like maybe i know what i'm doing okay so allegedly what kind of debt was the

100 000 our debt was the irs

heloc like credit cards auto and medical

bill wow i mean you had so you had some nasty

piranha in that pond yes yeah the tax man was uh not real

happy with us yeah how much of the 100k was was was the kgb i mean the irs it was about 20 000 with the irs how did you end up owing that much in taxes uh well i went a few years without

uh filing [Laughter]

yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna go with a my bad on that one yeah i'm just thinking that yeah i got it oops yeah so uh what happened 27 months ago what was your wake-up call two and a half years ago uh well so sharon and i have both

been through one marriage already so when we met we decided that we were gonna base our relationship in uh god's word and uh try and live

our relationship by his will and uh

as as we were moving through and we decided to get married and we were planning our wedding we were kind of noticing how much it was going to cost us and uh you know as part of being

living in god's will was to be good stewards of his blessings so you know and being one of the blessings that he's given us is you know our financial uh money and

how much we make and you know so we're we were talking about it and decided that you know we wanted to cash roll our our wedding and we wanted to get out of debt and you know start our our life together on on the right foot so that's kind of how we decided to do that and i'd heard of uh you from years ago

you're kind of a household name around our our family and um so we got your book

and we were reading it to each other uh

before bed for about a week or so how romantic right yeah right well i gotta admit i put char

to sleep a couple times that would be me you were reading it but i would be the one but that's great i love it so a hundred thousand dollar income what do you guys do for a living um i um own my own hair salon

business in boulder colorado yeah

and i am i i design medical equipment very good okay so you've been married about uh two and a half years three years uh coming up on two years in may okay so you started the process a little bit before marriage then yes okay excellent excellent well

congratulations you guys who had the first conversation with who who actually sat down and said hey what if we did this because that first conversation especially for a new couple takes a lot of courage a lot of vulnerability who who's the first one to have that conversation that totally is on sean's shoulders

so he looked at his wife and his soon-to-be wife and said what if we just scaled back and cash flowed this and what if we stopped spending so much money and you were all in all in yeah oh that's cool yeah

so you were feeling the stress in the pinch too then well yeah we i mean i came into our

um relationship with

you know a good sixty thousand dollars of that hundred thousand dollars that we had and i just didn't you know when you have that much debt you don't i don't

know like i didn't know where i was going and i was living paycheck to paycheck and i didn't want to be like that that was my typical my family's typical

and that's i didn't want to do that i wanted to change that you just think that walking through life with those ankle weights on and not sleeping and not knowing how we're

going to eat the last couple days that's just normal right yeah get used to it yeah yeah how's it feel now that you're out oh my gosh it's amazing uh and honestly

i as soon as we started doing this and we were knocking bills out left and right that's when my i started to feel like i was free

it is great you don't even have to be there you just got to know that you can get there yeah yeah we saw it coming it was great so what did you learn about yourself and about each other through this 27 months

well we were we were just talking about that this morning and um you know one of the things that we learned was you know we we don't always speak the same language when we're talking about our finances and budget and you know just life in general so sitting down and forcing ourselves to

learn how the each other communicates and you know how to how to listen and speak each other's language was really nice and so give me an example of when one of you was speaking french and the other one speaking russian

um you know it usually came up when we

were doing our budget and char would be trying to make sense

of the numbers in in her head and i'm trying to

make sense of the numbers in my head and you know i'm looking at it as you know an engineer and she's looking at it as a hair stylist so

those two things didn't always uh line up okay so the nerd and the free spirit for one thing right yeah yeah or the spreadsheet

lover in the room the guy the guy reading a financial book to his his new wife in bed and the artist right and i'm falling asleep that's right yeah i am the artist right yeah yeah this is great i love it guys you guys are amazing i'm so proud of you very very well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is

um well i think that the key or

our secret anyways is that it has to be

you have to get over the heart problem instead of it having a math problem so when you change your heart the math will do itself oh yeah profound very well done

good good job you guys well we've got a copy of rachel cruz's latest new york times bestseller know yourself know your money and it'll help with the russian and the french yes that's what it's for what would you tell to a new couple who's about to get married or just got married that how this benefited you too because i want you to give hope to folks who are thinking i'm not gonna have this conversation

definitely a hard conversation but

i think in the long run i mean it's definitely well worth it i mean it's just to have the debt off of your shoulders and not have to worry about anything like when also the when

the pandemic hit because of my career you know we were

closed for two months out here and we

didn't have to it didn't hurt us as bad as most people would because we were on a budget and um we still live on a budget

even though we're debt free yeah me too i i just i tell everybody that they should

do it whether you're married or you're single because just the financial freedom and that weight lifted off of your shoulders is huge i can't even explain it like

and i i'll even go once i'll go one step deeper and suggest that you all two have worked together on a hard thing they got behind the thing right you got behind the the

fear and you guys worked through something hard together and now you all know hand in hand y'all can conquer anything it's not a matter of if but when life throws its next thing at you y'all two both know we can do this because we've done it we're going to take over the world next there you go man i love it man well it needs a good taking over so would you please get in business hurry up sean hey pay your taxes on the way too brother keep your taxes paid

that way the world won't kick back but yeah i love it congratulations all right sean and char in denver colorado 100 000

paid off as newlyweds in 27 months

making 100 grand count it down let's hear a debt-free scream

three two one

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now let's just round that 27 months up to 36 months and call a hundred thousand 33 000 a year making a hundred thousand

and i will say it for you america dave was right he's always right it's frustrating i sit

next to him and he signs my paychecks

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today julie is in denver hey julie welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up um i have kind of a funny situation i have a brother-in-law who just offered

to take us on a trip uh this summer

we're on baby step two and this year

already has we've had some extra bills come up with some medical stuff we think it's strange that they've

offered to pay for a trip for us and we don't know how to say no we don't want to go because we don't ever want to pay them back even though it's a gift why is it strange well they have not talked to us for about six years and then in the back excuse me about a year ago they've had a change of heart and want to reconnect that's nice yeah it's nice it's nice

it's your your husband's brother brother yes so is there something about this gift you feel like is going to have strings attached to it yes there my husband

and his brother had a fight over a four-wheeler um about six years ago and it's just now

being repaired whoa the fight is being repaired before

the relationship the relationship like

we're being invited back to family gatherings and stuff oh so you got ruled out a mom

and dad's and everybody's yes you know that was bigger than a four-wheeler right i think so yeah

bigger than a four-wheeler yeah that's probably some 30-year-old stuff that was proxy ward with the four-wheeler i think so it was a joint owned you know father and sons four-wheeler yeah and it got ugly or you don't ever communicate family members over a toy right there's usually other stuff there uh yeah there's big stuff but it's strange you know just the other day they offered to bring us on this trip and we're on baby

step two and we are just not there to go on vacation but it's strange we

don't know how to answer because if we say no it's a money thing and then they say we're paying for it how much of this is um your pride i don't

know well it would be kind of hard to be like thanks for the airfare and hotel and why is that hard

i just don't want it to blow up down the

line and be like well we took you here

i don't know i don't i didn't think about that dr john actually so there's probably i i gotta

i'm gonna defend her a minute okay i'm i don't think it's pride i think she's uh gun shy it feels like you're you're

projecting a future you're well i mean a future these people will blow you up over a four-wheeler why wouldn't they blow you up over yeah come back later and circle around hit you in the back of the head over a paid-for trip that's right yeah but i also if somebody says man what an idiot brother i was for losing out on

six years of relationship hey i want to start spending some intentional time together and then all of a sudden i walk up and y'all are in baby step two of this weird cult that's happening off in nashville and it's like hey cool come with us we're gonna so i in the only reason i'm asking i'm trying to be provocative with you how much of this is you saying i'm too fancy i'm too i've got too much pride to take someone else's money versus no man

if we do this this is going to end poorly for us because i think to answer your question i think it's relatively easy you say hey you know what we're not going to do vacations this year we're going to stay in if y'all want to come visit us that'd be awesome but we're not going to vacations this year next year the year after we can't wait and

then your boundaries are your boundaries and if they want to throw a temper tantrum over that then you've got your question answered for you right okay you knew they're using this as something else otherwise if they say great we can't wait so we can do this again just so you know money's never a thing with us but we're coming we want you with us and we're going to make up for lost time

then you know hey there's something bigger at play here right but trust your gut right

i guess i don't have a i don't have a problem either way with it yeah john's point yeah that uh are hovering

around in his point i i think is um if this is truly an

olive branch don't saw it off that's what i'm feeling and that's why i don't know how to well no i'm saying there's a way to uh to you know push it to the side gently but you don't have to saw it off and so number one you don't need to respond your husband does this is about him right and he responds and says hey bro man i really do want to reconnect

and this is this means a lot to me that you would offer to pay for this and it's so kind and generous of you we are committed to this plan and i know that might not be something you understand but um we're going to stay home but it's not because of anything except we're working this stuff and i know you're paying for everything but it's just it doesn't work for us

this year if y'all want to come down hang out get your hotel in the area you know we'll go to dinner we'll all go out and throw frisbees in the backyard we'll do some stuff like that and then maybe another year we'll go on vacation together but i just can't do it this year and thank you so much for reaching out and if if he then bows up

and goes well you won't take my gift and run around then you go well see there it was okay like john said but it's it's a way to test the waters without smacking the possible reconciliation in the face or without ending up four days into a seven-day cruise reeling like oh no what did we do no we can't get

away yeah we're stuck on a boat now i'm stuck in here with cousin eddie yes yeah okay that's fair

that's fair yeah and and my husband will talk to him i won't respond for him uh i just we talked about it the other day and we're like we don't know how to say this yeah

well it's it's it's it you know it

it is way over there on the edge of awkward yeah but hey julie i also i also want to put this out in the water it is easy from you and your husband's perspective to look at your brother in law and say man i can't believe he burned us for six years over a four-wheeler but your husband's got to own some of that too it wasn't a four-wheeler there's something else going on

there he may not have the tools to have this conversation well so he's gonna know i gotta be gentle i gotta be appreciative i wanna i wanna always go into this thing assuming it's an olive branch i love that analogy dave i'm not gonna cut it i'm not gonna sell it off i'm just gonna move it aside and say not this year but soon but soon yeah gently yeah yeah

but and then that's having you having strength and boundaries and you and it also gives you a little bit of a a little test here because i'd rather do frisbees in the backyard than in cancun for a week yep you know in this weirdness so let's just have a little where there's a little better escape hatch and everybody's not heavily it's heavily committed and you know you

you that kind of stuff so uh yeah i would want we want you to rebuild the relationship if it's possible absolutely and it doesn't have to start on a paid for vacation in spite of your hurt and in spite of your scars yep yeah john is in tampa florida hey

john welcome to the ramsey show how can we help thank you dave and john for taking my call my wife and i are in baby step seven uh we have paid

for rental property that i'm trying to figure out what our roi is on that to determine whether they are a good investment to keep long term we don't we've owned it for about 10 years is it a residential house

uh it's short-term rental actually so they're vacation rentals okay um well usually those have much higher management fees management company takes a big bigger chunk right yeah we actually manage it ourselves okay um and you so you're like running a vrbo type thing

correct okay yeah the benefit is is that you get high rents when you get them but then there's the off correct and we've had a significant increase in property values over the time too which has been beneficial but a significant increase in turnover of the tenants i mean it's week by week it's not yeah okay correct it's a pain in the butt i'm just trying okay on residential traditional residential uh i i own a bunch of houses and our

portfolio averages a little north of eight percent cash on cash

okay meaning that the value of the

property it we generate eight percent of the value after expenses

without depreciation not counting depreciation not counting increase in value cash on cash

also the actual cash you paid for it no the actual cash oh value of the property it it's uh it would be cash on cash if it's cash you're correct but we do it on value we want to see our rents coming up to match the values to keep us around that eight percent mark after expenses now that's a traditional rental house that rents for a year not by

the week by the week you should be making more because you got a lot more labor and you got to account for the gap of no rent and you got those you know you got these gaping holes of off season and all that kind of stuff so yeah you you know if you're not getting north of that you should probably rent it straight up instead of vacation rentage

because you got to paint you're dealing with a pain in the butt this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to

thermsyshow.com

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the ever-popular dr john daloni podcast is

my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money it's a free call and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it triple eight eight two five five two two five

triple eight eight two five five

two two five mike is with us

in columbia missouri to start this hour hey mike what's up hey dave first off i want to say um listen to your show for a while and it's changed my life so thank you for that thank you i'm honored yeah kind of facing a decision now i'm

kind of looking to make a change in my career and i'm looking at two jobs both of them are paying a little better than i'm making now but the one kind of on the lower side

it has a better location [Music] i i can't it has just a lot of intangibles that are great about the job as far as a good boss be a part owner in the company um

but on the other hand i have another high paying job that the location is kind of up in the air it's a bigger company and there's probably more room for advancement

i just wanted to see kind of what you thought about that as far as what does each one pay the lower paying

job pays about eighty 000 and the higher

paying job i could probably within two or three years probably make double that okay um doing what in each case

um they're sort of in the sales industry

so you're so you're a sales guy

yeah sales and consultants yeah okay

so the intangibles must be pretty stinking high for you to be willing to take half pay yeah um like you said it's kind of my dream location the the boss is a really successful guy and i think yeah but you're not gonna be

i don't really care about his success i'm worried about yours

yeah unless you're 23 and you're going to put in two years and learn from an extraordinary mentor is going to carry along the way and you're going to have somewhere to go yeah how old are you yeah i'm 24.

okay all right so is that your idea you're thinking you can kind of write you can learn from this guy because he's a he's a butt kicker

um i think that's part of it and then yeah the location is i want to live there it might be more exciting there's something else here what's the what's the the thing you're not saying are you looking for permission to not take this job that you don't really want it's going to pay a lot um

i don't know i guess what's the location what's the location of the of the underpaid one that's so that's so appealing um it's

so i would be in training um kind of around the columbia area and then it's up in the air where i would go it's been thrown out georgia

um that's the eighty thousand different locations no that's the higher page okay what about the one that's got the great location where's the great location in columbia it's no it's in the pacific northwest

black wire like seattle area

okay so you want to move to seattle

uh that's appealing to that area that's appealing to you yes why

i like the outdoors and you know it's nice to be able to kind of go in your backyard and it's all

there and go fishing after work and different things which i know you can do in georgia that's just not the same it sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make a forever decision you're 24 years old man

and if you were telling me that hey i've got the opportunity to work for dave ramsey for two years learn the

ins and outs of this thing and he's going to take me along on the ride and then i'm going to have skill set i'm going to have to get a ringside seat to a world-class leader and then i'm going to have him on my uh as a reference the rest of my life yeah dude i'll i'm i'm going to be real rude for a second go make

the money i'm going to be rude for a second okay if you're coming to work for me and you want to move to franklin tennessee and the reason you want to come to work for me is because you can go fishing i don't think i want you

well i i also like i mean it's in my

industry and it would be um

it'd be like more responsibility and it would be more um i would just have the freedom to do a lot more in the company and and you know help the company make money you grew up in colombia didn't you uh

yeah i've moved all over the country doing different different things i work for a large contractor oh so you've already said okay all right i um

okay here's the only way i know to help you answer the question because i'm just confused about this call yeah me too um the um

what a good way to do this is to john was onto something there it's not forever but do ask yourself the

question what do you want to be doing when you're 34 10 years from today and where do you want to be doing it and what kind of money do you want to be making and what kind of a career field do you want to be in and all those kinds of things and once you identify that ask yourself the question which of these takes you there and

the love of the great outdoors i'm sorry that's way down the freaking list of the discussion on this because if you make 160 versus 180 you can buy an airline ticket well especially for if you're a salesman for the amount of time you're going to be able to get out and go fishing what i'm telling you if you're my friend if you're my son i'm telling you at 24 years of age

you are starting to grind brother go make your money go to a place where you have a lot of influence we're going to learn a lot and georgia is a beautiful wonderful place to live and as dave said man go spend a few weeks in the great northwest um but man get that

stuff under your belt and then you have a lot more options when you're 34 and 44 and 54. yeah but but which of these decisions takes you to where you want to be 10 years from now and that'll get you off the short term of oh i don't want to live here ooh ooh and this guy's a nice guy

none of that takes you where you want to be 10 years from now and so the the the decision-making

variables in this are disturbing and i can't put my finger on exactly why i'm gonna guess if we were to sit down and have some coffee with this person there's a romantic interest at one of these places that has a or a mom and dad interest at one of these places well that's why i asked if he grew up in colombia sound like he's trying to get out of

there ah gotcha get out of the south yeah i got to get away yeah you know i'm getting away from crazy family or something i don't know i don't know what's going on i can't put my finger up but good luck with it dude look out 10 years and ask yourself which of these is going to take you there and hopefully that'll help you answer the question better than

these two goofballs did and she'll go with you trust me yeah she'll come find you if she's worth it or you'll go back and buy an airline ticket or whatever however that works

i think we overthink stuff dave 24 years

old just getting ready listen yeah you don't you know where are you going to college so and so why my girlfriend's going there bad plan

warning warning this

is the ramsay show

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three three seven eight nine dr john

deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five portland oregon is on

the line dave's calling hi dave how are you oh great dave how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

i love it hey man uh good to be on with you uh it's funny we just started listening to your show recently my wife and i up until that point we thought hey man we got it going on and we started listening to your show and went i don't know i don't know if we have it going on let's lay our scenario out for dave ramsey and see what he would say and what he would do any differently than what we're doing okay you know kind of yeah so looking for some notes i suppose okay yeah far away what do you got i don't know okay i'm 49 she's 46.

uh we've got high school age kids i'm a real estate broker i work independently self-employed she's a stay at home um

we own our home not outright that's what we started like questioning ourselves as we're listening to your position on real estate mortgage you know mortgages in general uh how much how much debt do you have other than your home none oh i have one we have we we own three cars two were paid for and mine is a lease okay all right and so what does it take to pay that fleece off uh

you know like 20 some odd grand worth of least favorites probably and what do you well give or take it'd probably be a little less than that but the um well if you're gonna keep the car be more than the lease payments but anyway so yeah probably more like 50 grand or something i guess yeah so what's your household income about 500k cool why don't you just pay that off yeah

you know i'll tell you where i'm all spread around and yeah that's one of the thoughts and actually called my account last year instead of at least make all of my lease payments my remaining lease payments kind of you know tax tax deducted for the year b said do not do that um so here's what i got going out right so i've got my house um we owe about 870 on our house

i have it on a 20-year mortgage start off on a 30 and i know i don't want to have 30 years of the mortgage payment so i refined it to a 20 at two and a half percent nice uh yeah yes that's about six grand

a month taxes and everything all in um uh we own four rental properties

this is kind of also where we started questioning ourselves like dave ramsey said don't buy a property list if you pay it in full yeah um so of the four properties

one of them is paid in full uh and the

other three are about 50 equity they're all

worth say give or take 200 grand and what's owed on the other all less than 100. okay well let's start with let's start with this premise okay you make a boatload of money you're very

successful congratulations very well done what what could i do

to add to the peace

in your life financially and add to the

probability that you end up more wealthy than if you

hadn't talked to me and my suggestion

my suggestion to do that would be let's take this wonderfully large shovel you have of 500 000 a year and let's line up all of your debts your rentals your home and that stupid fleece car and let's just begin to eliminate debt because if you were making 500 000 and all of these properties were paid for wow what a cool place

i should think so yeah and that's going to take a while because you got it sounds to me like you got a million and a half or me and two in debt and you make 500 and so if you put 300 a year on it it's gonna take you four years maybe five years to clean up everything but the beautiful thing is that mathematically you can do that and still live a very tall cotton lifestyle or you can

roll off one of those houses that you owe and if you got one of the rentals you're not thrilled with and use some of that equity to accelerate the process but 870 on your

home making 500 man you can knock that out fast there's no panic on it the other stuff i'd be leaning into pretty hard and more than anything i want you to do what you're doing with this phone call and that's start to get very intentional with every one of these dollars it's easy to get sloppy when you have this much money coming in it's easy to get chaotic

and justify this and justify that because you go i make a half a million dollars you know what you do that's pretty stinking incredible very few people do and that's wonderful so you're obviously a bright guy because stupid people generally don't make that kind of money so that's an observation but yeah but

and dave you taught me this about um scale right so i see a number like 800

000 on a mortgage a remaining mortgage and my heart stops yeah but you gotta lean that against half a million dollars yeah which means nothing so you know take that down that's 87 000 making 50. right and so when i scale it down i remember when i started making 30 and then i went up to 44.

and suddenly i had owed more money than i when i made less money but dave honestly what i was hearing in your voice was just a little bit of as you started listening to us she went you know i think we're not being intentional enough and so i'm going to ask dave for some steps so that i can be intentional i want to i want a path here

because i kind of been wandering around a little bit a little loosey-goosey little margin in the emotions because i made enough i could be sloppy and still look good

good news is you haven't made a bankruptcy mistake you haven't you haven't gone crazy you didn't call me up with uh 87 million you know right you know 8.7 million dollar house yeah i mean you can call me up with any of these things so i i i just think you're wonderful and i

think you've got a lot of potential i would encourage you to be very intentional step by step and a really good idea is let's just lay

out an interesting little simple spreadsheet on how fast we could pay off this stuff if we were intentional and we limited our lifestyle just a little bit just a little bit because two hundred thousand out of five hundred thousand divided into one point two million is six years you know and and i always want to direct people back to the word you said dave i i've never heard

you approach somebody like that but what you asked what you told them is i want to know how i can add more peace to your life and if i can pull some of this can i if i can pull the other end of that fulcrum back right if i can pull the other teeter-totter back provide you less leverage and more peace yeah two words that don't go together financial peace right

you know like you know government efficiency yeah yeah but there's a moment when you're making half a million dollars and you think i should be sleeping better than this i think half a million times i shouldn't feel like i'm doing something wrong you know or that i shouldn't be drowning as much right yeah yeah that's exactly it that's exactly it and you know uh we took a call in

the last hour i think it might have even been the debt free caller um that said you know we suddenly had peace

we suddenly had a sense of control just because we had a plan not because we had executed the plan yet yeah but just going from i don't know what the crap's going on too i know exactly where i'm going this is going to be hard but i can do it and this one's gone and then you get a little bit there's a little piece there's you know

and but there's peace in when you could see the light at the end of the tunnel mathematically and it's not an oncoming train there's some research that says the day you make the counseling appointment for the first time you start feeling better oh man you wouldn't believe the number when we first started doing financial counseling people would call us up and in order to get ready for

the financial counseling meeting they would get their crap together yes and they would cancel we said i talked about it oh we that's how that's happened a lot when you take that first crooked step towards a new trajectory look confused and stumble forward but stumble freaking forward there you go this is

the ramsey show

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so

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oh i love it in the lobby of ramsey

solutions on the debt free stage gabriel is here to do a debt-free scream hey gabriel how are you hello i'm doing wonderful how are you today dave and dr john better than we deserve brother where you live i live in a little township outside of cleveland ohio oh fun that's a bit of a haul to nashville yes it was a beautiful drive the whole way down oh that's nice how much debt have you paid off i paid off 88 000 in student loan debt how long did this take you this took me 34 months good for you and your range of income during that three years approximately yes that would be 42 000 scaling up to 58 000.

excellent what do you do for a living i am a software engineer for a real estate company that's also located outside of cleveland ohio good for you well done dude well done so what was the 88 you said student loan is all student loans it's all student loans and a little bit bigger than i wanted because i did a major change halfway through college and that adds an extra year so it's a little extra debt what's your degree in uh computer science of course good and then you're using it and everything yeah so three years ago you had what feels like an insurmountable debt and you're making 42 000.

so what are you 29 28 close 27

27 all right good very cool he's not only that he's a responsible millennial that's so annoying oh you're messing up all of my stuff all your stereotypes are getting screwed up here exactly right yeah and he actually had a plan and he executed the plan oh lee wow i'm so proud of you man yeah

who was your biggest cheerleader uh biggest cheerleaders i got a couple people to reference one of the big ones is definitely my mother who's here with me today hey mom my whole family i'm down to represent got friends i got an uncle and aunt that said oh you're paying off debt let's find some homework that we can pay you to do got another ant that helped me let me know job opening position

so i could get an extra job in the final year and really knock out the debt so thanks to all of them wow wow so everybody got behind you and gave you a lift yes that's beautiful man there is nothing cool about finally getting out of college at 24 and getting your first job and then saying i'm going to be in it for 36 months with no dates no going out no running around i'm just going to knock

this out what kept you going every single day um every single day definitely looking that at some point you're not gonna own anybody money and it just alleviates all the pain of finding uh money here to go do something fun there because you're restricted by debt and those payments that you need to make so that liberating feeling is definitely what i looked forward to you kept looking at that long game huh yeah play

the long game it wasn't that easy off the start because uh the biggest thing that i found was there's a difference between dave ramsey's gazelle intense and gabriel's gazelle

and hey listen gabe there's a difference between dave's and everybody's but yes you're right yeah it started that first year making 42 and then you look down and you're like all right i'll make double payments on my student loans this is going to be fantastic and then you get through and you um get to 2019 and all of a sudden you're like i should re-budget the whole year and see how good i did and i paid off 14 000 that first year and i'm like that's not bad listen to dave ramsey while on the treadmill and all of a sudden i'm like i could be doing better so i re-ran those numbers budgeted for four things and i actually found out ten thousand dollars i couldn't tell you where i spent it 2018.

thirty thousand the next year and then i got those extra jobs going in the third year of 2020 and then i paid off 44 of the remaining debt in that final year wow that's a curve right there baby power the snowball kicking it you are kicking it well it was more than snowball his intensity snowballed yeah that's that's a snow plow sacrifice well done sir very very well

done okay so you're a professional now 88 000

paid off you're a professional get out of debt guy tell america how do you get out of that um for me what worked best i'm a numbers guy i had spreadsheets i made my own amortization charts so every payday when i sent it off to pay parent minus loans or government loans was like all right you know i only got 24 payments left and then 23 payments left

but having that visualization really helps i also have my um debt-free payment sheet here so every time i paid them off just there's the refrigerator magnet yeah baby visualization that that's what helped me get through it being able to see and actually say all right we're getting closer it's going to happen you know it's gazelle intense when he didn't pull out an 80 dream journal he pulled out a single sheet of notebook paper right

he was like done yeah six folds

yeah hey you mentioned this guy's incredible hitting the treadmill what are some ways you kept yourself sane and whole during this time that's a long time to sprint it is um definitely finding activities that don't require a lot of money are really good so anything that has to do with a little bit of charity work doing mountain biking that's free going on nature walks uh staying home watching movies with friends and family it's it's being active and enjoying life just not with the super lucrative end of it for a short amount of time yeah so what's the biggest thing you're gonna splurge on now that you paid off 88 000.

you're awesome oh i'm so proud of you brother well done very very well done well we got a copy of rachel cruz's book for you know yourself know your money our latest new york times best seller congratulations you're a hero man you did it you took control of your life in a in a culture where uh the the stereotypical news feed

is that your generation is lost and can't do anything and you proved all of that wrong just by taking the taking the range of the horse and riding it well done i'm so proud of you thank you well well done gabriel from cleveland ohio 88

000 paid off in 34 months making 42-58

count it down brother let's hear a free scream three two one i'm debt free

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i love it wow that is

fun fun stuff

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five jason is with us in norfolk hi jason welcome to the ramsey show

hi dave how you doing good man what's up

well i'm calling um for a couple of reasons um my wife and i are working on

purchasing or building a house and we've

been doing your program for now for a little while we've paid down i think nine or ten accounts and we are in uh baby step number two

and uh i think it's been around forty two thousand that we've paid bail in columns and now

the problem is this is that the land that we're building on was heated to us from families specifically to be used for that kind of thing and we're looking to get our house and stuff like that but we have now the only three accounts left are our two cars and a trailer rv trailer that i got

stuck with with a previous marriage um not too much

on it than what it's worth and so we're trying to find out what to do and where we are and snowballing everything what do you owe on it doing that 27 what's it worth

um well i was told by some people 19 and

i've been told 12.

okay so you need to borrow the difference or have the difference what's your household income we make about 152 right now that's good

you can come up with a 10 000 difference and get the things sold yeah

we're working on that the question is it up for sale is it up for sale um

not at the moment i have it at a friend's house because our current place we rent is an hoa and i haven't been able to get it here to prepare it to sell and i don't have a truck anymore to choke how long has it been sitting at the friend's house um about a year i'm calling bullcrap you need to get your butt in the car and go over

and get that thing cleaned up and get it up for sale man get your ten thousand dollars scraped together good hanging onto your old marriage brother this thing needs to go bye-bye and then some of these cars need to go by by and you don't need to be building a house to get this mess cleaned up you stay in that rental house till that happens time to get focused dude you're playing you're eating around

the edges you need to bite right in the middle of the apple here this is the ramsay show

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dr john deloney my co-host today this is the ramsey show open phone's at triple eight eight two five five two two five jack

is in california hi jack welcome to the ramsey show hey dave how's it going better than i deserve how can we help um so i wanted

some some advice on on my current situation

um i started binge watching your show about three weeks ago and decided okay i'm gonna because i want to buy a house soon so i paid off all my credit cards but the

problem i'm having right now is i have a car that's i spent way too much on last year and i bought it brand new because i drive about 100 mile round trip so i

spent 52 000 on my car um

and it's about a 836 dollar payment

um and i was thinking okay i'm just going to go ahead and pay this off um because the value has already decreased to like 38 000 when i looked it up on kelly blue book so what i wanted advice on was i have

about twenty thousand dollars in my savings good and i put my 401k on on hold just last

good because i have i had about 15

going in there i'm 25 years old i got 40k in there which i want to use for a house um

this year i'll make between 120 and 150.

excellent okay so and you the balance on the car is what the balance on the car is about 47 000 because i just bought it in september of last year gotcha so you throw 20 at it and that leaves us with 27 and you make 100 and some change and you pay it off in a year right yeah

so that's what my my question was because i was thinking of keeping like ten thousand dollars in my savings no okay

you're broke man 800.

yeah no it's ridiculous yeah it's horrible i'd be i'd be freaking out yeah

and i i realized uh you know watching your show and then i started paying off my credit card and i was like you know what if i if i want to buy a house i'm going to have a mortgage payment and a 800 dollar car payment you're not doing realistic okay i'll come i'll come to california and box your ears you're not doing that no you no

you you're too smart to do that let me tell you where you're struggling okay you've learned all of this information and implemented all of this in a very short period of time your intellect went way ahead and left your emotions behind

right you know what i'm saying like you understood this intellectually and you went like ding ding ding ding ding and you start doing it and then you're kind of like getting a little bit of emotional whiplash because this has all happened in a relatively short period of time agreed yeah and and you know what watching your show helps me out so much because a lot of this stuff is

the stuff that my my parents are very frugal um and they taught me all this stuff and they were freaking out when you bought this 52 000 car yeah but they let they let me

make my mistakes well yeah you're a grown man and that you know stupid's not illegal and you explained it to them in a good way why you needed this one too yeah 100 miles a week which means i'm going to destroy the value faster that was that was me justifying it in my head yeah but i knew i heard you did when i was doing it yeah

i heard you but you made me realize uh how stupid it is when i started watching your show i think i think you're smart and i think you're going to turn this around it's just the re the reason you're saying but but i'm gonna keep the ten thousand dollars is is not because you intellectually don't see how this is all gonna pan out it's because you've done

it all in a very short period of time and you went from way over here in the land of stupid to rushing over into the land of the wise and it you got a little whiplash doing it emotionally it takes your emotions a little time to catch up so give yourself permission to go this feels weird but i'm going to do it anyway and you feel exposed

when you get down to that one thousand dollars and i think that's the point right yeah we want you running well and we want all that money throwing at this stupid car to get rid of this debt but when somebody binge watches dave they realize oh gosh i'm not safe and they immediately want to get safe now yeah and so it's i get that impulse i gotta hang on to

this and let me tell you the other thing those of you out there that are uh you know you've been broke for 20 years living paycheck to paycheck and you work through this stuff and you work your butt off and you're gonna sell intense for three years and then you're debt-free and you don't have any payments and then you start actually getting some money and then you look up

and you go dead gum i have several hundred thousand dollars and i have no debt there's a there's another thing that happens is your emotions are still back there when you're broke yeah and it feels weird to be able to buy a ten thousand dollar thing and just write a check for it and it's not a big deal yeah mathematically intellectually but your emotions are like back

there when you were broke right so you gotta heal along the way too yeah i mean we spend more on copier paper and coffee here than i used to make right in this building i mean okay i have a thousand employees well i looked down at that number and i said your heart stops numbers going through i'm like i'm that little 28 year old guy that's back

there broke 30 years ago i'm like crap yeah what a coffee

you know it's like oh that's a lot of coffee so you know the last time i bought a new car when i was an idiot was was a long time ago i went to we're looking at buying my wife a a new car and or a used car new to her

i thought when did the prices go up and she was like 25 years ago right but yeah it's that same they want what for a used car but as you move away from uh

one set of financial values

and operating in one financial reality and you move into another one your intellect often goes before your emotions almost always and then like it's like later on so i have to look down at the coffee bill and and go okay this company did bring in 350 million dollars so we can probably cover this coffee bill you know

so shut up you little whining boy yes

but on the other hand i look at that number and it just there's still that it still activates those old emotions and so that tells me that still today my emotions have not caught up with the intellectual activities required to run a 350 million dollar company and it may never

it may every time they do the company grows so i can't keep up that's right that's right i can't keep the same thing with me you know sharon and i were looking at buying something last night and she goes i want to get this and i'm going to spend a lot of money and she told me how much it was and i went that is not a lot of money

you little goob buy it but that nine-year-old little girl from east is still like well that one the one that was terrified and didn't think we'd ever be able to fill up her grocery basket again in the grocery store yeah and now can and not think about it but she's like that's a lot of nanny she's like a mischievous like she's doing something wrong i'm like honey puts two to zeroes on

it and we'll call it a lot of money that's not a lot i think dave that is so wise that whether it's your marriage whether it's your kids whether it's you're in a career money to always just pause have some

built-in pauses to go here's a conversation we're having

upstairs we're working on this new book we're you know we we say here if you're not growing you're dying and i asked the team it just hit me like a lightning bolt what does growing mean to you what does growing mean to you and they were saying you know intellectual stimulation and exercise plan a good morning routine and reading and spiritual growth and all these things and david occurred to me in

this conversation this is just yesterday by the way so i'm still processing it but when you go lift weights you're actually tearing your muscles down it's when you rest that the growth happens and so it's both and right it's it's crushing it and reflection and so it's gazelle intense and i'm in a new stage here you are busting the lactic acid man yeah i'm in a new stage in a new stage

and a new stage and there's the pruning that causes growth yeah and man it's always a breakdown to build up always and when you it's when you read that hard book or that hard class it's at night when you sleep that's when the neurons grow that's when the growth happens right and so it goes back to it's both and maybe i should sleep more i'll always tell

you that yes but i love this gazelle

and hey don't forget to be reflective and realize hey you're safe now you're safe now and now we're gonna start working about giving and building and it's it's just keep letting you make sure your head and your heart stay connected through this whole process man yeah that that's um so jack all of that rant to say that um for everybody else out there listening what you're going through is normal yeah it's a it's a normal part of the process for your emotions to catch up with your intellect take the whole 20 000 down to 1 000 work the baby steps like you heard when you were binging and let's get that car paid off and get that debt out of your life and the good news is you can look back when you're 54 and go you know one of the dumbest things i ever did was back when i was 24.

back at this could you know you may have gotten the dumbest thing out of the way we should have gotten the dumbest thing i was ready for check that list the dumbest thing you're ever going to do could already be on the list that's a win that's a good way to think and at the end of the day you end up with a 50 000 paid off car that's not a bad not a bad way to end the constellation prize this is the ramsay show

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story [Music]

this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the ever popular podcast by the same name dr john delony podcast be sure and check it out he's here to answer your questions about your life i'm here about your money in your life and we've got an opinion about everything so jump in we'll help the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five

five two two five lindsay starts us off this hour in los angeles hi lindsay how are you i'm good dude how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world so i was involved in a classroom in february uh praise the lord i'm okay my baby is okay but my car was totaled um i got a settlement for about ten thousand i believe it was about ten thousand seven hundred

and i tithed on it gave to ten percent to the lord and i have left about 9 500 and my husband and i have 12

000 about 14 000 in debt and

i'm wondering if i use that settlement money to pay off that debt or do i save it to get a new car okay so

the car you were driving the car you were driving that was totaled was worth how much um

i believe it was worth about ten thousand i think they gave me what it was worth okay so this money is for the car that's not for any injuries or anything like that yes sir sorry about that oh that's okay i'm just saying so you were driving a ten thousand dollar car they gave you ten thousand dollars approximately and now you buy a ten thousand dollar car right what's wrong with that plan um well um i'm trying

it's been hard finding a car because i commute i want to get a car that's reliable you were driving a 10 000 car yes sir

before and we were not having this discussion about reliability

okay um okay okay i guess

sounds like you're overthinking it or trying to try to no you're trying as an excuse to move up in cars yeah like you like you're gonna win something you didn't win anything they just made you whole if you if you break even on this deal you you come out really good or if you move down in car you come out really good so what was the car you were driving that got killed it was a 2012 camry okay

not a bad card 2012 camera is pretty

reliable yeah yeah it was amazing i loved it i bought cash for it and i was really upset that it got um so found an amazing

2012 camry for ten thousand dollars because that's what that one was worth okay all right um all right is that okay

yeah i'm i'm i was really wanting something that would get me better gas mileage because i can use it to work than a camera yeah my camera did

it did well it did okay um i just you know not an f-150 i mean so okay what are you thinking

about okay let me just settle this all right dude it will be a mistake please do not for your sake use this horrible tragedy as an excuse

to go further up in car and set yourself back financially and you are rationalizing your butt off i can hear it so here i'll tell you um so what i was

but i was thinking my husband just set the record straight my husband thinks that we should pay this money to pay off the debt but it's cause then you would not have a car right exactly that's what i'm thinking yeah so i i want to use it for a car but i want to finish paying off our debt because we're really really close i want to finish paying off our debt

and then just save like a couple just a couple more thousand dollars to get myself something that's got low mileage and that will do well like a prius lindsey think about

it this way getting in a car wreck was not a scratch-off ticket

you did land with ten thousand dollars in your pocket and if you were walking to work then maybe this is a different conversation but you need a good car to get you to and from and the insurance company did what they were supposed to do and they made you whole and what you're trying to do is figure out how to make be whole plus and you can't okay

i just want you to get back to where you were just get back to zero that's not worse not better that's right you didn't win anything and the insurance did what they're supposed to do they paid you and so go get that same car back and then move on with your day and don't overthink it okay now you know if you if you owed eighty thousand dollars on

the car fifty thousand dollars on the car and this paid the car off and got you out of a mess and we can move you down in car we would talk about that but your car is very reasonable don't move up and and set yourself back and use some of the money you should have been using for debt but you're also not required to move down to a two thousand dollar car either in

this situation so if i woke up in your shoes i would buy a ten thousand dollar car that got good gas mileage and by the way there's prius on the market with that for ten thousand dollars absolutely yeah and i'm not sure that's moving up in car well played i i also understand

you owe very little money left and you've got a ten thousand dollar check in your account and i get that's hard but you can't you don't be careless i mean no you can't but but i get it and then you gotta go on and get a car right if that was gonna work you would have had the car for sale sign in the car when it got totaled

and that's that's that's where she's not able to make that leap right and we think that when we get an insurance settlement we win you didn't man that's not what that's supposed to be no it's supposed to make you whole believe me here insurance settlement and win are never in the same sense right right that never works that way so good question thank you for calling yeah

i love that heart anthony's with us anthony is in los angeles hi anthony welcome to the ramsey show hello

gentlemen good afternoon um i was just calling because uh officially i was i got out of the marine corps for uh i've been in there for four years talking to the phone brother hey all we hear is muffled man you're gonna speak into your phone yeah sorry about that um so i was just

calling uh i just recently got out of the marine corps um i served four years 22 years old and i'm looking to buy my first home with the va loan um i've been approved

for 5.5 uh with zero down and i'm wondering how much of that would be smart to actually use none of it none zero there's not a sentence that's come out so far that was smart except for except for the part where you served your country thank you for doing that that's right but the uh uh all right so let's stop you realize the current interest rate is more like two and some change not five and some change um yeah yeah they're trying to charge you double young man did you hear me

yeah um it was about 3.25 yeah

about 275. okay quotes this morning

so on on a conventional with five percent down what's the hurry to buy a house you're 22 what do you do for a living um i do i t what do you make

uh 90k good for you it's awesome man that's so cool so you got some good training in the in in the military then didn't you oh yes are you married sir no i'm not

married excellent okay all right my advice to

you is to wait a little while longer and use some of your fabulous new income to save you up a really nice juicy down payment and get a conventional loan the fees

and the closing costs are much lower than on the va and uh certainly according to your quote the interest rates are better that's a horrible interesting please do not buy a zero down house in los angeles california with the way the market is out of control right now yeah this is you're gonna be over your

anytime you don't have the money to do something and you do it it never leads to good things just think about it that way i hope we stopped you get a great apartment live your life doubt i did though but thank you for your service this is the ramsey show [Music]

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today hey when folks are hurting we want to

make it as easy as possible for them to get the guidance get the resources they need to win to

get better and that's why we do this every day we want to help folks over the past year our team has been working hard to build a brand new website that makes it much easier for you to find all the

great content the tools the products the services that ramsay has to help you improve every aspect of your life not just your money and guess what it has launched it is called ramseysolutions.com

we invite you to check it out it is well done i'm so proud of our tech team all the research and process that went into it at your one stop shop for everything ramsay ramseysolutions.com all your personalities are there including rachel ken anthony christie dr john and of course me all in one spot you no longer have to go on a wild goose chase to find what you need it's all there easy for you to get to with a ton of great resources check it out it's free

ramseysolutions.com jeff is in grand rapids hi jeff welcome to the ramsey show hey guys thanks for taking my call sure what's up we got a question yeah a question for you i've been with the same company for over 30 years i've invested everything within my own company i've never ventured out to you know independent ross and i've got a

daughter that's recently graduated from college doing exceptionally well where she's debt-free paid the last two

years on her own i helped her out and she got some scholarships she's a young 22 year old with a great job 30 000 in the bank wow and my question is

i want to venture out to prepare for the next stage of my life and get an elp help or investor pro and i don't

know if we should do this together i don't know what the best route for us to go i know that she i i didn't try to pressure her she's ready to invest so she's done everything right and i've preached into her which i haven't really listened to you much i've come on to you the last few months from a co-worker so i'm learning myself

and i just need some guidance as to what to do what she should do both of us i don't know if

we should invest i'm i'm ready to to to hook up with an elp

or smart investor pro is this something we should do together or i don't know you're you're independent adults this is a father a grown lady and her dad right yes yeah your retirement plans

are not combined in any way with the

exception when you die you may leave yours to her but i mean other than that

no i was just looking for an investment yeah you can get you can both go the same guy for investment advice that'd be fine so just yeah just click smart investor pro and you know you can schedule an appointment and go meet with a guy and both of you meet with him and then you can say you what do you think you're going to use that guy or

you know do we want to talk to another one and you could talk that through and just make sure you get someone with the heart of a teacher which you should that's we try not to have any smart investor pros that don't have the heart of a teacher but um yeah it is not necessary that you both be with the same person it would be okay if

you are but it's not necessary and you certainly don't have combined accounts or combined um anything i mean you could share information if you want to you could talk about what we're both doing and how we're trying to win but but um yeah let's let's let her

uh she's done a wonderful job of stepping out on her own and let's let her do that it's a common conversation day that i've had with parents over the years where they've just they've been needed

for their coaching and their wisdom and their guidance and their direction and suddenly they graduate college and they're off doing well and the parent goes what do i contribute to him now yeah and that's that shift where just you're enough just that relationship yeah the fact that your dad she's gonna ask you she trusts you you're a good guy but now your your value is less about

what you're giving and just the fact that you are you're my dad right and that's a hard transition for parents it is it is yeah because we've gone from doing everything for them yeah and to doing almost nothing yeah well and i think we were probably doing less than we thought but we sure gave that advice and we sure said hey don't forget to and then you look up

and you're like i don't know i kept the grand babies the other day they do a lot [Laughter] you're doing a lot for them i'm just saying there's a lot there's a lot of maintenance involved in them critters oh yes there is

theresa is in boston hey teresa welcome

to the ramsay show how can we help hi dave and john thank you so much for taking my call sure um so here's our situation

um my husband and i were both 57 years old we're raising our granddaughter she gets about 500 a month for social security we've just been kind of sticking it in a you know no interest bank account um you have told me and others in the past that that sort of family money not just hers

our my main question is should i be putting that aside for a 5-2 529 plan or should i be rounding out my

retirement um with that extra 500 why is she collecting that social security um her dad has passed away and we're raising her i'm sorry oh my gosh

yeah what in the world oh

how long ago um

six years now and um she's 11.

okay well here's the thing

no you should not be putting it in your retirement and no you shouldn't necessarily be putting it in the 529 it's okay if you put it in the 529 but you are not morally or legally obligated to do that because the ssi that you're receiving is not enough to cover what you spend on this child right she cost your household more than that and um and so then and you are acting as

the parent and so you're going to do what is in the best interest of the child well beyond what the ssi amounts to

agreed yes okay so what is your household income so it's about 140. okay and then you have the 6000 coming in from ssi so 146 correct correct that goes at the

top of your budget 146 and then you go through your budget

regardless of where the money came from whether you made the money your husband made the money with an investment comes in whether there's ssi it's just a pile of money and now we're going to give every one of those dollars an assignment towards the baby steps and

it sounds like you are out of debt and have your emergency fund and you're on four five and six are you um we yes we're out of debt and haven't

um excuse me our emergency fund so you

should be putting 15 of your household income into retirement above in baby step four above that out of your budget that consists of all of your sources of income uh you would put above the 15 going into retirement you would put um uh uh some money into baby step five

towards this kid's college and that's where you're going to load up that uh 529 and if you have an 11 year old you probably are doing more than 500 a month into that

but it has nothing to do with the ssi calculation it just has to do you have an 11 year old you need to get caught up saving for college and that's probably you're probably going to beef up baby step five and slow down putting any extra on the mortgage because you have a rising child heading towards college wide open right we also have i mean

we're 57 so retirement's coming quick and that 500 could help connie there is no 500.

there's no 500. okay there's 146.

okay so i need to put a little bit more

15 yeah of your income

household income into retirement

okay if you want to get real technical about it i only put 15 of the 500 in just now okay

you want to be real technical about this way the math happens to work out but you need to be putting 15 of your total household income in baby step 4 into retirement and then you need to put all you can scrape together beyond that into baby step five because this kid you're late for college and and you're you're moving forward you got 10 more years to work this kid will be out of college and you will have built a pretty good nest egg by then by doing just 15 meanwhile you can work on your house

okay does that mean quit parsing this money out you didn't say uh i'm going to put money aside into retirement for my husband's income and then i'm going to put something aside for my income no we called it a household income there is the whole thing baby the whole thing and you don't help your kid by not having retirement paying for their college and then needing their help for your retirement home later on yeah

you 100 chance you're going to retire not 100 chance they're going to college or to some fancy special one huh this is true this is the ramsay show

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from the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage brent and brenda are with us hey guys how are you hey dave good thank you welcome welcome where do you guys live california we're out where abouts sacramento oh love sacramento awesome and originally from new zealand i'm a kiwi oh fun well good to have you guys how much debt have you paid off paid off 172 thousands uh

172 750 in about 9.2 years

good for you slow and steady and your range of income during the 9.2 uh 130 to 195. what do you guys do for a

living brendan i work in healthcare yeah healthcare i'm

not a nurse though i work like a coordinator back office

type of thing front office so i'm a salesman i sell

moldings and doors excellent very fun very fun so 9.2 years

was this your house yes sir i'm weird you are officially

weird people i paid for a house in california you are double down on weird i love it man i'm proud of you guys thank you we are thrilled what is this house worth probably about 450 and we bought it we bought it for about 2 30. and you own it baby yes sir i love it

so what put you on this journey 9.2 years ago well i've been a fpu coordinator and just uh became a dave ramsey financial coach so we've been leading fbus and i think just

the power of compounding interest and realizing how much money you can bank in your own account you know if you if you get ahead of the mortgage and pay it off you can save thousands and thousands of interest absolutely also i'm in sales so you know in the housing economy it can be up and down so it's up at the moment but one day it's going to be down

so having having no house payment is going to be really sweet when it goes down yeah it's going to well i mean the whole thing just gives you stability yeah well done so brent and brenda the number of i'm gonna get in shape this year's i've done is a lot and i last about two and a half weeks i work out real hard i get all the

the forms and new weights because it's always the way it's pro how in the world have you all kept plugging at this for nine and a half years we're in it together it's a team effort

and uh we both were determined we both had like a little sign in the refrigerator saying we're going to pay the house off in this amount of time and this year and so we've been plugging away at it but we haven't skimped so much we've budget everything really well use the financial principles techniques

and also just a testimony to

the people in our class too as well

so and sometimes it seems like that date is a far off a little bit but once it starts getting closer we start getting more excited and stuff so it's like okay we're going to pay the house off in this amount of time and we'll be debt-free so so when you put the number on the refrigerator the very first time all those years ago

how far how long did it say it was going to take you well it was technically october 2021 so

um we just our mortgage was about i think about 10 90 we put down 2 300 a month and just pounded it so you beat it by about six

or eight months over the original six or eight months yeah very few people go longer than the original go yeah you almost always surprise yourself to some degree mm-hmm yeah and you guys did you were the real tortoise i mean just kept plodding man yep yes definitely that's beautiful the beautiful tortoise thanks to our coordinators out here the three coordinators who really inspired us and uh and helped us how many classes have

you all led well we've only led three classes um the last one was a virtual but fantastic because we got to uh coordinate with people from alaska and minnesota just flipping awesome oh that would be a zoom yeah yeah the virtual coordination is it's a different animal but it's also very cool yeah very cool very cool most of our coordination coordinators now are virtual so good for

you guys i'm so proud of you all right now you're professionals you have a paid for house in california you're professional debt reducers what's the secret how do people get out of debt well i think it's actually writing things down i i teach my students hey write down what is your 20 year goal and put it somewhere put it in the bathroom like we did put it on

the refrigerator and if you have a goal if you have it written down you walk past it every day and and it just helps keep you focused and and also teaching fbu you know you're accountable to the other students but yeah just writing it down having a goal is important for us yeah fabulous yeah keep it in front of you is on anything maybe that's the secret for

the gym thing john [Laughter] appreciate you brent thanks man just kicking me while i'm

[Laughter]

that's kind of a little deterrent so but you got to keep plugging away and be creative i don't know that sounds like an excuse you should probably write that down and put it on the fridge

so hey who's who is beside your classmates who is your biggest cheerleaders well i i gotta tell you uh we're pretty self-motivated but um yeah just self-motivated i

i'm on the scale of personality you'll appreciate that uh john is i'm probably like at 11 as far as discipline so i had to be careful to work with brenda you know not just save save save save but she can spend a little money on this a little bit of money on that okay

and she works in healthcare brent so they will never find your body brothers

like you john

we have things we can do with you [Laughter] you guys are fun that's all this is so great i'm so proud of you thank you how old are you oh uh 59.

59. yeah okay so for women don't ever ask them

it's too late because i don't care i promise i won't say she's 59.

so i'm older than both of you so no whining okay so yeah but you're sitting here with a paid

for house did you ever think you'd get there we did but i i want to share i remember at 4 35 a.m i

was in bed i got my um online payment paid the last

payment of 15 000 i remember your statement about how it feels so different got up out of bed and i walked across the room and it felt like i was walking on air and i remember that statement you made it it was so amazing and i i told all the class i said hey remember those positive moments paying that small debt off you know remember and embrace that

because the positive motivation is more important than the negative don't do this or don't do that so that's true yeah that's true there's a lightness that is very real oh tangible fantasy that people that have never been there don't have yeah i'm so proud for you guys thank you very much what a testimony to younger folks who are looking at a pile of student loans and say it's going to take me three years

and you guys have set a marker out there

that says yep it will and it's going to be worth it you're just going to get up and do it every day and do it every day and do it every day you're going to find somebody do it with you and you're going to keep doing it and then you're going to have that moment where you float across your bedroom and it's going to all be worth

it it was wonderful thank you thank you for the inspiration you guys wow we're so proud of you you're our inspiration you're heroes well done very well done all right here it is 173

000 paid off in 9.2 years

by the way that's about seven months early making 130 to 195 house and everything

these guys have a paid for california

house shut up count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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it changes the whole equation for the

next decade everything everything's changed so imagine in a year the the real estate market is is settling and his boss calls him in and says hey we're gonna have to we're gonna have to to downshift our sales goals for doors and he'll go all right and all right

have a good week man hope i hope you're

good hope you're doing okay yeah yeah if you need a hug holler at me i'm gonna be i'm gonna be hanging out with brenda i'm going to be going on the buy that free back porch yeah because we don't uh have a house payment have a good one brother so cool guys this is the ramsey show

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so

our scripture of the day zechariah 4 10 do not despise these small beginnings

for the lord rejoices to see the work

begin francis of assisi said

start by doing what's necessary then do what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible for the lord rejoices to see

the work begin

sometimes you cannot see the end when you start but you need to start anyway that's what

we're saying just start just start

you know how you become a writer you're right you start writing i don't know what to do an exercise program just start doing it anyway just start our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they will remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos

they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best deal all right today's question comes from ginger in california she writes my husband refuses to deposit his whole check in our joint account and hides money in a separate account he deposits only enough to cover our expenses then turns around and withdraws large amounts later he's a good father holy crap don't want to ruin my kid's life

if we divorce that's it so

number one he's not a good father number two he's ruining your kids lives not you

being forced to do something about this

so there's not really a question here dave this is more of a statement

yeah your husband is a twerp

he is not husband material he is not father material he is a self-centered little child

yes and he's yeah

he's doing just enough to keep his kids fed and you fed but he's a manipulative power hungry

idiot and then he doesn't even care about y'all being fed later on because he'll go get the money back yeah so uh what does she do from here um sits

with a counselor absolutely and then she's the fact that

she said i don't want to ruin my kids lives if we divorce tells me two things number one she's thought about it or number two the people in her life have said you're this is over and so she has built this up as i'm not going there and so i have met with people who have said i won't do that and to which you say okay then

this is the bed you're choosing to be in you're gonna have to make the best of what you got inside of here i'm going to tell her this type of manipulation usually comes with violence and or

volume and or other types of neglect and manipulation beyond just the money this is a symptom right and she's got to sit with a counselor and begin to create a a or what plan because this is a mess yeah

and it's the to give you the strength

um the assurance that you're not crazy correct or wrong correct and the words

the narrative on how to calmly

lay down what will eventually become an ultimatum right or what yeah yeah and you're going to say you're either going to uh provide for this family by putting

your whole check in the thing and we're all going to work together or we're going to talk about how we're ending this marriage because i'm not going to live like this anymore and these kids are not going to be raised with you as a model for what a husband and a father and a provider looks like yeah because yeah you're damaging your children by allowing them to think he's a good father yes you're throwing gasoline on a legacy forest fire yeah you're

there because they're going to duplicate what he does times 10 yeah right yeah and to the extent he's yelling at you then they're going to yell and hit yeah and to the to the extent that a

the mother of your children is simply an annoyance and in the way of whatever thing you need to buy whatever event you need to attend that's how they're going to treat romantic partners for the rest of their life yeah and you're just you're painting a model here's what that looks like yeah my life is more important than all of y'all's combined my wants and toys and fun

and stuff yeah the opposite of this is we often tell people what is the best thing you can do for your children love their mother well that's it when somebody says that's the exact opposite of this whole thing how do i help my kid with uh screw my kids up drinks mistreat their mother that's exactly right hey my kids got anxiety what i do fix your marriage hey my kids are struggling with xyz fix your marriage have a great marriage start

there and then we'll start talking about the other stuff yeah yeah yeah i'm sorry ginger

i'm sorry it's a horrible thing it's not even a question here it's a horrible thing you're in but the uh if um you know what we're seeing

you know with what you the information you gave us uh was not throwing your husband under the bus if it was truthful and it is accurate and um then you are

sitting in a mess and you need to do something about it that's what we're saying yeah and you probably are gonna need some help to do something about it it's very few people can navigate these things by themselves you need someone to give you language to it and someone to say

look what you're feeling in your heart that this is wrong and you're being mistreated is correct it's accurate it's accurate because you start to feel like you're the problem and you're not the problem it's almost a domestic abuse thing and here look at what she says i don't want to be the one who ruins my kids lives yeah by taking care of me and my children you know what

he has said that to her absolutely if you leave me you'll destroy these kids if you don't quit yelling at me about the money you're gonna you're gonna mess these kids up and she says oh my gosh i'm so sorry i'm so sorry yeah it's got the same tone of a domestic violence that's why you said violence you know ryan is there ryan's in louisville kentucky hey ryan how are

you hey gentlemen thank you so much for taking my call i truly appreciate it sure how can we help well um

first off i just wanted to say thanks to your guys program uh my wife and i we paid off 160

thousand dollars worth of debt debt-free number 2018.

so yeah that was awesome and um

i guess now we're sitting at uh what would be baby step six but we're are on active duty

military and we rent everywhere we go

good and and so i want to be saving so

that when i do retire um you know we can pay cash for a house so one can i save above the 15 and two if i

can where sh where should you know what type of account should i be putting that into yeah your baby step six just goes in a separate mutual fund and you nickname that the house fund and you pretend like you're paying off a 200 000 house and you try to get 200 000 in there okay

okay because um so one of the things that i'm looking at is i'll get promoted uh later on this year so i'm gonna get a little over a thousand dollar uh pay bump you know per month and so i just don't know how much of that i guess should i be well you should know out of your budget you're on baby steps four five and six you should be putting 15 of your income whatever your income is into retirement maybe step four five is kids college do

you have kids going to college um they're all they're all taken care of

gi bill got it gi bill and then uh

and and then some are just in in the military themselves oh okay wonderful okay so that check that box right uh and so then you say all right everything above 15 goes towards paying off the house early only we don't have a house so we are building a payout pay cash for the house fund so you basically which is the exact same math yeah so you throw everything in that other mutual fund in baby step six above 15 go of your household income going into retirement

so in other words if you've got a raise of a hundred and of a thousand dollars you're going to raise your retirement by 150 and that gives you another 850 to throw towards this get out of debt house fund okay and i just want you to pile up cash like fast and furious like you were trying to pay off a house exactly and the average person pays off their home in seven to eight years doing our plan

and so seven to eight years from now i want you to have enough in there to pay cash for a house okay be the same same exact math it's just you're getting the benefit of the money instead of the mortgage company okay yeah it'll work for you instead of paying that interest out that's excellent man yeah very well done sir and again thank you for serving your country yeah

we really really really appreciate that and um yeah when you move around every two years because they move you and most of the housing is in a military community where it's tough to sell a house you can get really stuck if you start buying properties everywhere you go so we tell folks if you're moving every two years for any reason but particularly in the military don't buy just rent

so he was following that advice but this gave him a leg up on the how to offset the situation there nothing cool to get out of the military and writing a check for your home right that would be pretty neat that would be pretty neat that puts us hour of the day ramsey showing the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 188. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 20, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:00 |

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this is the ramsey show you can be intentional

about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king the paid

off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality the creator of business boutique and all things christy wright is uh my co-host today as we take your calls about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five speaking of business

boutique you were saying right before we went on the air that popped up on your phone there's five years ago today that the book was uh in launch mode you're in your first week at launch yeah it was launch week we were in nashville for the signing it was one of those memories that came up on my phone it's hard to believe five years ago the book came out

but it's incredible too because this book continues to sell you see this and it continues to help people it's the plan to help them get their business idea off the ground and grow it so equipping women to make money doing what they love i can't believe we've been saying that five years it seems like it's 20 minutes of course of course the book launched as a number one bestseller

and it's all about equipping women to make money doing what they love to go with that around that same time i guess maybe in the f months following that we launched business boutique academy yeah which uh is all about christy teaching ladies how to start and how to run a

business yeah so this is really just our coaching model because it came out of our first event in 2015 we had these amazing success stories but women would come home from the event they're fired up but then they're thinking oh well i ran into something i didn't know how to deal with or i lost motivation or i got discouraged a few months later and i thought you know

i want to walk with them over time in their business i want to help them have the motivation but also the advice and tools and steps they need to take and so we launched the academy back in 2016

and it has been incredible i've had women that that joined in 2016 that have stayed with me and you have some that have been joining since then but it's a six month coaching period this is not a you know a

private facebook group where we just sit around talk this is you actually teach them to freaking do stuff and they go freaking do it yeah we have a this is serious business it is and it's interesting too because it doesn't matter what type of business you're in you're all in business i have the most common question i i am asked dave is but what about this type of business

but what about a salon but what about fitness coaching but what about multi-level marketing nonprofit for-profit what it does you're all in business and that's what i specialize in i want to teach you the business principles that you take and apply to your specific business to help you win and so uh so yeah we only open twice a year we're open right now we opened yesterday we closed thursday night

and what we do is we have an open enrollment where new members can come in and join and then i walk with them for the next six months in their business to help them chase their goals their dreams figure out what their version of success is and then give them the tools to get there so and that keeps you in in the class you know if you're a freshman or a sophomore or senior there's not people joining every day

and leaving every day right exactly they're in there together and the community's part of the aspect of it it is there's such power i actually put them in buddies and so it makes the big group feel smaller and then i give them weekly emails and curriculum on what you're going to discuss with your buddy what you're going to work on in your business and we're all on

the same track focusing on the same things together we do something really cool dave that i actually started last year out of covet and you know we were all pivoting trying to figure out how to make it work with covid one of the things that we came up with is a 250 challenge so the cost of your membership is 244 so i came up with a 250 challenge

and i challenged them to make 250 in seven days and i give them a whole list of ways to do this we all rally the community gets a lot of it i just get so excited you have people posting the facebook group and what's so cool is they do this the majority of them do this and they've made their membership feedback in seven days and you've made roi in

the first seven days so it's just it's a really powerful community but it's amazing to see to see how when women get the help they need when anyone gets the help that they need they really can do this thing they think you know i'm not business business-minded i'm not cut out for this no you are you just need help like we all do in any area of our lives that

we need help with yeah i don't think a four-year-old gets up and goes i'm not bicycle-minded right right i wasn't cut out for this you're still gonna have to learn to ride it baby right that's how it works enrollment for the academy is open as christie said through thursday night april the 22nd just about 24 more hours 48 more hours and it's only open twice a year

so you don't want to miss your opportunity to get in on this training the tools and the support uh and it's odd that it's uh you know coming up on the week that is the anniversary of the launch of the book so uh join the academy at ramseysolutions.com academy and you can become a part of this incredible community of women who are making money doing what they love

that's so important the book is also on sale right now among our other books on a ten dollar special at ramsey solutions.com store so total money makeover business

boutique rachel's books ken's books

virtually all of our best-selling books are in there on sale right now with a 10 sale at ramsey solutions.com so be sure

and check that out as well but the academy open through thursday night

april the 22nd shuts off at what time thursday night eight o'clock thursday night and um again ramsay solutions dot com slash academy and you'll get the help from christy the one-on-one coaching the

the community the challenges everything you need to do to get moving and get started in that business or take your existing business and move it to a different level and it's a very unique community

and it's all about changing everything the ramsey baby steps community uh kim little our manager of that community uh said if you want to be part of like-minded people jump in on our facebook group it's called the ramsey baby steps community and

it's massive i mean several hundred thousand people in there juliana says i'm a single mom that's blessed to have my mom able to help me with my kids i'm in baby step two it seems like it's going slow i want to get a second job my mom is supportive but i don't know how to balance my two kids i actually need my help i know i need to get out of debt

but i'm torn yeah this is one of those things that a schedule is your friend because if you're waiting until you have time left over to put money toward to work on a second job or start a side business from home or whatever that is there's never time left over and there's certainly never time left over when you have young kids and so i think that it can be in your favor to come up

the schedule whether it's nap times weekends what is can do you know maybe it's from 7 to 10 pm you bust it and try to get creative with working from home or freelancing or that type of thing with some flexibility but the reality is you have to have some type of schedule and structure otherwise you're going to always feel like you're coming from behind and so what is what is realistic

but also a stretch goal to help you do what you want to do to maybe speed this up and get extra money yeah and but also real estate all work is not profitable so you need to actually be doing something that makes money yeah i mean i would i take a retail job and be away from my kids for minimum wage no right no you need to be doing something that's two three times what minimum wage is whether you're running your own gig doing something on

the side uh i don't care what it is you're doing but figure out something that's gonna pay really well number one number two then map it out and go okay this is only for two years or this only for 18 months or it's 19 months and then i'll be out and then i can go back to a regular schedule so if it pays really good it's only for a reasonable period of time

you can lock it in that'll give you the energy to do it and the third piece of advice i've got is work while everybody else is asleep yeah yeah do your 4am reps what can you

do what can you write what can you uh what can you you know what orders can you fill on ebay at four in the morning what uh what questions can you answer how can you work when others sleep because those kiddos aren't there you know and you know the amount of time people spend that's supposed to be spent with their kids in front of stupid television you know

you just take that out just throw a brick through your tv you find all kinds of hours all kinds of hours in your life kristy wright ramsey personality is my co-host

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today [Music]

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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chrissy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five carly's in buffalo new york hey carly how are you i'm well dave how are you better than i deserve what's up um so my husband and i recently

he was in an accident in september we recently received a settlement of a hundred thousand dollars wow okay not

uh yes actually like he is nearly

fully recovered so we got really lucky on that one wow sounds like it's a bad accident he

it was a very bad accident he uh broke his leg surgery all of those and all those bills have been paid yeah it was covered yeah okay so in addition you got a hundred thousand clear and he's okay now yes okay

all right and we're just not sure what to do with it i know there's worse problems to have but this feels kind of burdensome like i don't want to mess it up you know like i feel like yeah

uh until we don't know i don't know i don't know real estate or what to do i understand yeah you want to be careful with it and wise well we would apply it wherever you are on the baby steps so let's walk through that a little bit do you have any debt other than your home no no home debt either no home debt okay so you're completely out of debt house and everything what's your household income

uh about 33 a year 32 000.

okay and um do you have an emergency

fund of three to six months of expenses

yeah yeah it's closer to nine months good good well you're in really good shape you've done it it was lucky to have that when he got hurt i bet i bet yeah you've done a great job you're in great shape congratulations well um you know yes you could buy a piece of real estate if you want to buy that and pay cash for it uh might be pushing it to find a hundred thousand dollar property in buffalo i don't know uh things are going pretty high

yeah maybe you could but i would not want you to go into debt for a rental property i think that'd be a bad plan and so if i'm in your shoes then that's going to put me in mutual funds probably and so uh and you need to take your time and understand that investment and um

you know move through the the process of learning on that before you actually make the decision a good way to do that is to connect with one of our smart vester pros click smart vester at daveramsey.com ramseysolutions.com click smart vester too many changes for me remember all this credit and um yeah and anyway so yeah ramsey

solutions.com click smart vester and it'll drop down a list of the smartvestor pros in your area that you can uh connect with sit down in order for them to get our endorsement they have to have the heart of a teacher they have to be willing and able to sit down and teach you because you should not put money in something you don't understand and so you know

when you're doing something new like investing it's it's intimidating yeah that's why you need someone that knows that specifically and i think some people feel like oh i'm supposed to know this no even inside this building we use investment professionals for our investments because they are experts that's what they do all day every day but to your point you want to go to someone that is trustworthy that's in line with what

we teach because if not they could explain things in a way that you don't understand and you end up making some mistakes so you want to go to someone you trust yeah i just sat down and spent an hour with our tax professional that does that handles the ramsey family oh god tax bill

and uh all the stuff and and you know

there's no way i'm gonna understand freaking 10 billion words that the irs wrote and know them all that's his job uh but i do need to understand enough of it that when i put my signature at the bottom of that return that i know what it's saying right i may not know every little nuance and every little thing perfectly but i need to get the gist of what we're doing

so that i'm not just blindly signing things and not looking at them yeah exactly and that's the same with investing it's the same with doing your will these are things that you don't have to be you know you can put an expert in your corner but even somebody working on your car they come in and go well you know it's gonna be eighteen hundred dollars to fix

the gym again the jimmy gag and what the flips of jimmy gay you know you're gonna have to tell me what the sparkle mana flaps are i mean i i'm gonna have to get a figure out start over please you know 1800 bucks you just got my attention so now i want to know what the flip's going on here and so you know you have to be taught

and and you don't blindly trust anyone not because we're cynical right but because it's our job to be responsible for our decisions

where you get screwed on anything from car repairs to investing anything else it's when you don't understand what you're doing and you just went oh that's my guy he takes care of me it's my guy or you're too or you feel like you're going to look stupid if you ask questions like this is your money it's a hundred thousand dollars or whatever you're doing it's your cards eighteen hundred dollars ask

the question say well now what does that word mean we matt and i just sat down with our investment guy a few months ago to kind of do a reset on where we're going what we're doing and there were several things he said that i go what does that word mean i don't even know what that word like and he explained it to me it's like okay

so don't be scared to ask questions this is your money that you're investing you can ask those questions and really good people will answer them in a way you can understand an attorney a few years ago we were working on not not litigation but on a just a contractual situation and he's

like you know because i said so and i went hey dude you just got really confused that that's

you work for me and i'm getting ready

fire your butt try again oh my god because i said so what do you think you are my dad he doesn't know you he didn't know not to say that bless bless his heart yeah right well he knows now irene is in

san antonio hey irene what's up

good afternoon mr ramsey thank you so very much for taking my call my pleasure how can we help i've been

listening to you for about five years now and i followed all your steps so i have totally eliminated all my credit card debt i've eliminated all my student loan debt i have two vehicles i have absolutely no car payment i have and five thousand dollars

left on my home and uh my question is i want to go back

to school to pursue my phd um and i was wondering if that's

a wise thing for me to do the reason why i want to do that is because i've become absolutely passionate about my field of mental health and so i want to teach on a university level very cool that's awesome first of all congratulations yeah paying off all that debt that's amazing yeah thank you i followed each and every step of mr

ramsey and it completely transformed my life over the past five years you're amazing that's awesome so you're paying cash for the phd uh well what i'm going to do is i still have 40 000 left over in grant money that i can put towards my education and then i'm going to take the rest of it out of my um out of my savings to pay off the rest

so not that much but i have enough to cover it so i'm not going back into debt ever good good and you're not dipping into the emergency fund to do this no absolutely not i have plenty left

so you're going to pay cash for a phd with a grant and the excess savings and it's what you want to do well why wouldn't you do it because i couldn't find it anywhere in your book why didn't you write a chapter on that that's your fault yeah i i don't write a lot about phds the only one i've gots in d-u-m-b so i was like i'm gonna call because now

i've done all the steps basically and i just need to education is not really one of the steps other than pay cash for it for your kids education in baby step five and in any purchases you want to do we're paying cash for it and this is not a luxury it's career advancement you're going to move into a whole new phase of your life and you've positioned yourself to do

it this is fabulous you want to do it you have the money for it and it's moving you in the direction of where you want to go that checks all the boxes for me irene you got it touchdown thank you so much

i appreciate it i'm awesome appreciate your asking our permission but i think you're all right that's right yeah you you're a rock star absolutely amazing yeah that's uh uh and that is one you

know if you're going to teach at the university level then you know that is permission to play this table that's table stakes that's right you got to have that to be to teach at that level and so and it's a wonderful field too yeah i mean we got john delony around here and he's got two phds he's fairly normal

most days most days some days

not so much most days yeah we keep him

fairly much in line james and kelly do on his podcast but it's a full-time job this is

the ramsey show

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hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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christie wright ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money steve is with us in york pennsylvania hi steve how are you good how are you better than i deserve what's up um the company i work for was bought recently and uh the pension i worked on for 12

years or that i was given for 12 being there for 12 years he offered me three options one was to do a lump sum

or two to get a really small payment

starting like next month or three ways to wait till i'm 65.

lump sum i just wanted to see what maybe you would choose lump sum it's a no-brainer and you roll it direct transfer rollover into an ira and there's no taxes on it okay how much money is it uh 23

500 okay so let me tell you what happens if you die no not if you die when you die

that pension gives you zero

right yeah okay uh you die with 23 000

in your ira you know what your estate has 23 000

okay and you can invest it where it will grow faster and better than it will inside that pension by putting it in good mutual funds so you're better while you're alive and you're better while you die when you die and so this is like what's known as a no-brainer you do this immediately always take the lump sum pension when you can and run okay

make sense yes makes feel sense okay

thanks for the call brother open phones triple eight eight two five five two two five the old pensions are just

about dead yeah we don't get a ton of calls about that but that's interesting because i don't know the i didn't know that that when you die you don't get it in a pension i didn't know that is that any any any business any pension any pension not 401k yeah 401k is yours you own it the pension's actually an asset of the company it's not an asset of yours i didn't realize 401k is your asset yeah and so if the company goes broke you can lose your pension and technically speaking um and you can't

lose your 401k if you're going to go broke but if you work for a company that offers pension do you take it you don't have a choice it's just you have to give it you get it most companies like

78 of them have done away with pensions there's just a few mainly bigger ones it's an old school thing and yeah and some old governmental agencies and things unions that kind of stuff it's mainly things that just haven't kept up is what amounts to that are still doing pensions because the 401k is much more advantageous to the user sure so isn't this back in the same kind of time frame

when you know people worked at the same company for 40 years got a gold watch and a retirement party and yep that was enough and your pensions your pension built up over time and the the thing about the pension is you don't put anything into it they put into it you don't put anything into it so it doesn't quote cost you anything but what it can cost

you is your future by counting on it and not having other other side things to do stephanie's in rochester new york hi stephanie welcome to the ramsey show hi how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world um well my husband and i are trying to decide if we should purchase a used vehicle or if we should keep a vehicle that needs to be repaired

um what baby step are you in we're in

baby step two okay why would you what's the repair

uh it's it's like a muffler issue

but it's like um leaking uh

fumes into the car and they said it's gonna cost about eight hundred dollars what's your car worth uh

i think it's about maybe like 2500

um with with me it was gonna take 800

to fix a muffler um it's the repair shop

i know what i mean just an independent repair shop or a muffler shop or the dealer uh it's an independent like car repair shop have you gotten other quotes

no okay that's first clue

um you you always get more than one quote when something seems weird because this sounds a little weird that sounds super expensive for a muffler issue and i don't know cars stephanie at all but that just sounds expensive i thought so too but i mean i might be missing part of it yeah you could be and we could be too but it's worth checking on further because

it could be 400 which changes the conversation doesn't it yeah you wouldn't even calling us you to fix the car 800 puts it on the bubble so how much do you have in savings we have uh 5 000 right now and we're expecting to get about 2500 back from our taxes and i've kind of been nervous about putting that toward our debt because of our cars and not knowing they're both kind of older higher mileage cars

and i was thinking you know within the next year or so we might need to replace them but i don't know if it's smart to just hold on to that money in case something happens to the car or just not worry about it pay down the debt and then you know well you're you're working your plan happens if you're working our plan if you're working our plan

you apply the money towards the debt yeah i just even if your car is like possibly going to be breaking down honey cars are all possibly going to be breaking down every one of them every car in this parking lot is possibly breaking down at any moment how much debt do you have um ten

thousand seven hundred fifty dollars and what's your household income about 42 000 so i mean with the money that you have and the money that you're expecting to get you just need to be debt-free soon yeah if you quit holding onto your muffler money

you know i i don't want you to die from carbon monoxide poisoning so i do want to get this fixed and get some more bids on it and find out how dangerous it is or does it just stink and so on and you know so when we were going broke

i mean we were coming out of going broke and trying to dig our way out doing what you're doing and we were so broke we couldn't pay attention and we were scared just like you are i was driving a car that the transmission main seal busted on it now let me tell

you what that means that means the transmission fluid leaks out of the transmission you know where it goes onto the muffler and you know what it does it smokes like a james bond car or something it's put out a smoke screen behind me it looked like a movie and i had to put transmissional fluid in the thing almost every three days just to keep it running but

i just kept pouring transmission fluid in it and smoking up the neighbors and um and finally finally we got the other side of it and i got the money to fix the stupid car after i got the debts cleaned up and uh but i limped through because i

had to change my direction and that's what i want you to do i don't want you to do something that's dangerous the car i was driving wasn't dangerous it just stunk but uh and the neighbors thought it's funny and it's a funny story now it wasn't funny that it was embarrassing as crap but uh but i did drive that old beat up thing and i i got through

and now i drive whatever the flip i want to drive because i've got the money now and the reason i got the money is i i didn't keep falling back into the same trap my 1996 jeep grand cherokee dave it's a piece of crap like a go-kart it smells well you probably hauled goats around in it because you had goats i actually did but that's it smell like no

it stunk like that that that oil smell like a go-kart like if you were at the go-kart races i prayed that thing back to life more times than i can count like i prayed prayed it back to life cars don't have a soul that didn't happen that didn't happen you cannot lay hands on lazarus the cheap well the jeep came back to life you take that up with god himself that jeep came back to life

when i prayed but you're right it's like it's embarrassing for a season and then you get through that season and she's not even that far i mean we're talking 7500 she's so close yeah she's 7 500 bucks out of 10 000 and just boom you're gonna be right there right we could see this but you're gonna have to change your focus on what what what do you believe in what do

you believe is going to take you to the next five years keeping this money in the account limping along with these old cars and and limping out of that or busting through kiddo our suggestion is bust through you you make a decision now what do you believe in and all of us let me tell you for a whole bunch of us a whole bunch of you listening that are out of debt

and have become everyday millionaires me and christy we've all driven that crappy car that was so crappy that you had to give it a name old blue bertha whatever her name was

i don't know why they get female names not the david nobody nobody names it george take it easy they always give them negative female names henrietta i don't know but you got to give them a name that you know and if you if you hadn't been through that then you don't know what that poor lady's facing but we're with you stephanie you can do this this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money dawn is in indianapolis hi dawn how are you i'm blessed dave thank you thank you how

can we help i called because my four children

just inherited a hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars each from a life insurance policy that i took out on their dad when i was married to him 13 years ago and i need to thank you dave because we feel so blessed today that i did what you said in the financial peace class that i took back then we put policies in place and their dad just died a month ago and now my kids have have this money in

hand from the life insurance company it's a lot of money per kid and we want to know how you would invite them what what should they do if they're only 25 years old 20 18 and 16 and you can only put like a

six thousand in a ross every year so i just we're here to ask you your advice and we want to just thank you you've blessed us i'm sorry for your loss all of you so it was your ex right yeah yeah we did divorce eight

years ago but 13 years ago when we were together we did this right that's what i thought i understood you to say okay well um i think different age kids will have different needs a 16 year old has a different need than a 30 year old the 30 year old we're just going to apply it on the baby steps wherever they are okay so if they have any debt

you applied to debt if they don't have if they got the only debt make sure the emergency fund's in place 15 of your income going towards retirement kids college is five and six says pay off the house so we roll that money up that list until it runs out

okay does that make sense yes yes

okay and really i would do that you said

16 was the youngest and there was an 18 25 maybe it was 25 20 18 and 16. what's the 20

year old the 20 year old what is he doing well yeah um we we don't know yet other than i've advised them that they need to set up i mean what's his life what's he doing with his life is he in school is he working he he spent the past year

and a half taking care of his sick dad so now he has to find his life he does have a two-year degree but yeah he doesn't he's been taking care of his dad while he was terminally ill so okay well i would put him in the 16 year old you know make sure they're reading through ken coleman's stuff on career and christy's stuff and you know just get get a handle on who

they are and so some of this money there's a probability will be used for education as a matter of fact i might park it all just to the side and something really simple for the two youngest ones until we ascertain what educational needs they have and so 16 year old says i want to go to college i want to go to a four-year school then we make sure that

the four-year school room board books tuition is under 187 000 for four years

otherwise you pick the wrong school sure

okay and yeah they're more community they're community college kids yeah and you know get the first two years out of the way and then go move and take two more years at the at the you know in state university and he'll have some money left over uh but i would just make sure we use this money to get them the education to start their lives the other older ones have already started their lives

and you just applied to the baby steps i think do you think see something else yeah i was just wondering dave when you're going through that type of a loss for these kids they've lost their dad is there any type of waiting period it may be different because they're kids or even if someone's older is there any kind of waiting periods like let's not decide to do anything with

it for a period until a little bit of the initial grieving is over where it's like i don't know i just can you think clearly when you lost your dad a month ago you know well exactly yeah i mean it's

it's good to park it for a little while yeah and let it sit the 16 and 18 year old are gonna have to let it sit anyway yeah because they're gonna have to make some decisions that are gonna take more than 30 seconds i mean you're gonna have to sit down and think about what you want to do what studies are involved in what it is you want to do where you're going to get your education

and then you map out what that's going to cost and begin to apply the 187 towards that as far as the baby steps goes yeah before you start paying off but i mean i i don't know that a 30 year old losing their dad can't uh decided to pay off their car

with this money 25's the oldest right dawn no yes she's 25 25 is the oldest okay so even that i'm like so is she married or kids or she is married and

they just had their first baby two weeks ago okay so that one's yeah they probably have a pretty traditional set of baby steps to walk right and i probably can't give them much advice because they're married right yeah yeah well it's completely up to

them but if if they were to call me and ask me what i would tell them to do would be to work up the baby steps in other words pay off your debts make sure you have an emergency fund in place make sure you get 15 going into retirement make sure the new baby has a college fund uh and you know then pay off your house do they own a house they do okay yeah and i suspect that those steps will use up 187.

okay what about so the 18 year old college is already taken care of so she wants to know what to do with it besides puts them in a roth how's her college she's her we've already fully funded that and she's got three years left it's fully funded

yeah i mean she she she drives back and forth to school it's a four-year school and she drives she lives at home with me still all right um you know that

you do not have to get fancy uh you know what i would do is keep it very simple and very calm until you get out of school uh and to christie's point let's not try to be professional investors at 18 years old when you just lost your dad so you don't you don't have to you haven't done something wrong if you don't suddenly become a highly seasoned uh professional investing person

you know so if if she wants to sit down in the next few weeks as her as girl's brains start to some of the fog of grief starts to clear if she wants to sit down with a smartvestor pro and begin to look at what she could do with investing that's fine but when she finishes school

16 year old finishes school with whatever money is invested whatever money is left over that's probably going to set up their adult life really well they might pay cash for a house in indianapolis and indianapolis for that if they're careful uh or they might you know move to another city or they might do a lot of different things it gives it gives them some flexibility it's not a millionaire it's 187

and that's a lot of money in one way but in another way you can kind of go like it's all over it's not over this just gives you a boost this is not the rocket it's a booster shot but for those for those younger ones especially the ones that don't own homes yet i mean you make a great point because that could buy them a house in cash out of

the gate they never have a mortgage they are completely set up for the rest of their life they never owe debt of any kind and that would drastically change their financial lives if they started that would be a great legacy for uh uh for her for their dad

you know that the dad literally with this life insurance might change the family tree um what what a cool you know what a cool side note to a to a horrible situation um

and that's what life insurance always is

it's always a cool side note to a horrible situation yeah you know uh we had a young lady out of

south carolina that we've videoed for some of the financial piece classes that um you know a brand new baby and

they're in their 20s and he just it was just a freak thing he's had a stroke or something and just died i mean but they had you know he had a bazillion dollars in life insurance and it um you know obviously it's a young mother that had lost her husband is horrible and this baby really never really knew his dad and um you know it's a horrible horrible thing

but the good side note is that she never has to work well i'm curious about this life insurance topic what do you think keeps people from getting it is it fear of talking about such a horrible thing like death is it just they're too busy they never get around to it like it's not a fun thing to talk about we can all acknowledge that but in a situation like

this it's one of those things that like you have to have it well it's in the category of

smart things to do that give you no immediate feedback yeah and you know if it's if i'm doing something retirement why don't people say for retirement won't they say for the kids college because it's 20 years off right and you know thank god it's friday oh god it's monday right you know and people have short-term vision windows and so they don't have any vision in other words

and where there is no vision that people perish and so when you look out in the future and you see you know this is what's coming and i got to get ready for it that's called maturity yeah but we have a vastly immature culture and so yeah you need wills you need life insurance you need retirement planning you need kids college but these delayed pleasure things are all

that they're all a sign of maturity toward amounts to that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the bm the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice christie wright ramsey personality is here to do this show because apparently i can't and so we're here she's here to co-host with me

and i'm going to stumble through and we're going to pull this off we're here to help you with your life and with your money it's what we do the phone number is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five steve's with us in nashville hey steve welcome to the ramsey show thank

you dave and thank you so very much for taking my call sir my pleasure how can i help and good evening also to christy thanks dave i am currently

me my wife my mother and my son are on

a level term insurance policy

you were talking about life insurance while ago and this fits into it but

um currently my

agent wants a couple of us to switch

over to a whole life i bet he does yeah yeah and

i wanted to ask you why first of all my

mother is she's she's insured permanently because of her age when i fixed her up on a level term she she went through the two-year probation time and she's fine my son is 30 years old

they want him to swap over and of course i'm 57 they want me to my wife is on

a 10-year level term her age she's

66 and um they're telling me it's going

to be very difficult for her to get rewritten when hers expires in five years how's your money situation i'm i'm okay

what's happening i'm certainly not self-insured today okay how you're in your 50s

how much nest egg do you have uh

about 50. okay and how much debt do you

have i do have some debt um

my home mostly it's about 60 owing

not much okay that's good and what are you doing towards retirement from this point forward i'm not at this point i've not

actually got a retirement plan in place okay well obviously you're gonna need to do that right okay right yes sir okay and uh does your wife work outside the home no sir she's disabled and what do you make around 50 a year okay so the purpose

of life insurance is to make sure

that the people left behind who are counting on the person's income are taken care of correct

if god forbid your wife were to pass away mathematically you would be just fine

right because you're not dependent upon her correct to financially move forward now i'm not talking about your heart wouldn't be broken i'm not talking about we wouldn't cry i'm not talking about those kinds of things okay i'm just saying mathematically and this is the this is the discussion of life insurance is the math part okay and so if we

cancel her life insurance when it

goes up it's not that big a deal

okay so i wouldn't continue to buy life insurance on her once it goes up so if it you know her term runs out or you said she had a 10-year term when that runs out i would just drop it you see why

yes sir okay now in your case

you're going to need life insurance to take care of her until you get this nest egg built you're 57

you're out of debt except your home time to get with saving some money investing some money pretty aggressively for the next uh 10 years or so right yes sir

and let's pretend that you had uh 300

000 in your investments and you get your house paid off 10 years from today and that's all very possible if you start concentrating would you agree with me agree okay and

you die she has three hundred thousand dollars a paid for house and no kids at home i think she'll be okay yes sir so we're

working towards self-insurance

and in the meantime we prop it up with life insurance you follow the concept yes sir see the only thing whole life is good for is to make sure your agent gets a commission through your whole life

that's what it's for it's the kind of encouragement yeah the and the the premiums are 10 times to 20 times more expensive for the same amount of life insurance okay but it's all based on the premise that you're not gonna do anything to get yourself ready to not need life insurance okay so we took care of you two now let's talk about mom how old's mom mom is about 85. and um

anybody depending on her income to eat no there's not okay so why is it she's got life insurance it's just back when i lost dad dave

he did not have insurance and it was a little difficult on the family to take care of all the arrangements now does your mom have any money she's she's uh not really she got twenty thousand dollars no sure she's on a fixed income okay

so she doesn't have any lives with she lives with my fam not me but with my other family okay so we need enough to bury her yes sir but that's all we really need that's what i have on her okay so you have a very small policy on her and it's term it is term dave uh and and what we started with her remember she has some uh some uh underlying issues

and they wanted to go with the two-year probation i started with her and and that elapsed and she's he told me just the other day i met with him he said she's insured for life because i'm assuming because of her age

that's strange okay well it's probably not that expensive a policy though because it's not covering by 10 or 20 000 bucks right it's really not dave so it's not an issue so we got three of the four done now your son is 30 and what he needs to do is work the baby steps get out of debt have an emergency fund and 20 years from today you know not

need insurance because he paid off his house in 15 years and because he's got 700 800 000 in his 401k and his kids are grown and gone 20 years from today he needs a 20-year level term and he doesn't need to use your guy because your guy's a whole life guy you guys are paying too much for the stinking term but it's probably too expensive for you to move now

but it's not for your son he needs to go to zanderinsurance.com and get a quote and he'll probably find his term insurance is half what you guys are paying for it really yeah i i'm guessing i'm not allowed to tell you who he's insured i don't care who's he with farm bureau okay farm bureau is a wonderful company for

car insurance and homeowners insurance yes their term prices are absolutely ludicrous really

yeah but they're great people i got friends that work there i mean i really like the company but you don't buy life insurance there it's not they're really good though for car insurance terms their car insurance service i've been hit by people that had farm bureau and i get they they take care of the car i mean they're just they're wonderful you know and um i i'm i'm a fan of the

company but don't buy term there no it's a bad idea don't buy any life insurance there it's just too expensive because they're they're not really designed to be in that business that's like something they added on to their catalog later and they thought well we make a lot of money doing this and your guy's not a bad guy he's just trained by those whole life guys and

so he just doesn't know what the flippy's doing and that's in this particular subject so you got to stay away from people pushing cash value nobody believes in this whole life stuff except people that sell it everybody else in the financial world knows and understands and says no way this is the ramsey show

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chrissy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five five years ago this week she launched a book that was number one called business boutique equipping women to make money doing what they love the follow-up to that is the business boutique academy that helps you uh build your

business build your side hustle start a business uh and it's for equipping women to make money doing what they love uh we only allow you to join the academy

twice a year it's closed enrollment because we want everybody to be in groups that have this same experience as they go through so enrollment is open right now for a limited time until thursday evening this coming thursday april the 22nd so don't miss your opportunity to get in on the training you can join at uh join the academy at ramseysolutions.com academy now the other thing we want you to know is we've got the ramsey solutions website up now so ramsey solutions.com is now

your destination site for all things ramsey and that includes all things christy wright john deloney rachel cruz anthony o'neal and whoever i'm leaving

ken coleman i can't remember who i'm here for you yeah that's it that's good you're going to carry this i knew you were good-looking site the site is much more it's much easier to navigate and find what you're looking for you don't have to go on a wild goose chase all the time a ton of great resources a ton of tools there a ton of free articles on just about every subject where

it comes to transforming your life go to ramseysolutions.com and check out the new site it has been launched for about a month and it is all the feedback all the feedback has been positive no one went where'd daveramsey.com go because nobody cared but me except you

where'd my name go where's my name uh not really all right alicia's in decatur indiana hi alicia how are you hi dave hi christy hi um

thanks for taking my call my husband and i are having kind of a dilemma on what to do with an

inherited ira a little back story is we've been date-ish for quite a while and at the beginning of november we decided that we were going to go full in and you know pay off all of our debt so we had some more freedom well since then we paid off 28 000 worth of debt good and the only thing um well the only

thing we have left is my student loan debt good so

it's um right around 40 41 000

and how much was the inherited ira eighty-eight thousand is what it is yes pay off your student loan out of that you're gonna have to you're gonna have to cash out the inherited ira over the period of the next few years anyway that's the law and you're gonna pay taxes on it as it comes out no penalties and you might as well pay your taxes now and be debt-free yeah it's just a security blanket for me i guess it's not a security blanket you have a student loan debt yeah that's true you have a security

blanket with an axe hanging over your head that's true it probably makes sense so

it's not very secure you know no no no and you know be debt-free listen here's the thing when you got all geared up and you paid off 28 000 since november the reason you did that was you came to believe that the shortest distance between where you are and wealth and financial stability is to get your butt out of debt right

true nothing's changed yeah

just stay the course take the hit

because not because it's not a hit it's not a hit it's an advancement when you see it as a hit you feel like you're losing money you're taking that money and you're applying it to the debt this is a move forward so we gotta we gotta reframe that in your mind when you see that as a hit it feels like it feels hard to do let me give you let me give you an example on this you took the hit when you took out the student loan when you pay it off you admit it

yeah when you buy a car that's 30 000 when you buy a car that's 30 000 and it goes down to 20 000 and you sell it people say oh i took the hit no you you already got the hit you already lost ten thousand dollars when you sell the car you just admit it

yeah that's all it is it doesn't change it doesn't change the reality it just makes you face the emotions of this student loan was a stupid butt idea well it's okay we've all done stupid butt stuff i made a living doing it kiddo

all right you're gonna be all right you're doing good i'm proud of you you know the interesting terms to use security blanket made me think of that call in the last hour where they they had 7 500 had a debt of 10 000 but didn't want to paid off because it was that same concept of like this makes me feel safe because i have this money here it's an illusion it's an illusion

and it's like the idea that that is keeping you safe and it's somehow going to be a move backwards to pay off the debt no no that is the move forward and you know what that that does bring up a thing too this idea

that the enemy of the best

is not the worst yeah the enemy the best is okay kind of in the middle if you can just sit in the ugly middle and be comfortable you got no reason to bust into excellence you've got no reason to bust into the x and it's familiar it makes me think of in financial peace university which i when i took this years ago you talk about the credit cards like oh no not

this last one i'm so attached to it and there's an emotional attachment we have these ideas in our head that even if they're not accurate mathematically at all about what it's going to do for us financially we get attached oh i've got gotta hang on to the savings even though i have all this debt and i'm paying all this interest because it makes me feel safe that's not that's not a reality me going broke

i had an advantage

i didn't have a choice yeah yeah you were forced i'm sitting there in the poop and i gotta go i gotta get up out of this because it wasn't comfortable right but if you're sitting there and you kind of feel comfortable it gives you this that that's where the enemy of the best is not the worst i was at the worst yeah and i knew it and

i didn't want to be there anymore i was motivated to get my butt out of there right you know but when you're everything just kind of okay you know i got my little ten thousand dollars and i got my little eighty eight thousand dollars and i'm okay and and that your your brain just whines like that mine does it too on other things yeah it's like you know i'm not fat enough that i'm gonna die

so i don't do anything about my fat you know you know what i mean but but if the doc came in and went you're morbidly obese you're about to die of a heart attack fat man then i would go do something about it sure but my brain is like my level of fat i'm kind of in the middle you know until until i hit covet and then

i just got big as a dadgum house and i had to go so i've lost 37 pounds y'all shut up all right but uh because i needed to because i was gonna turn in the michelin man but um but the you know but you know it's the same thing isn't it any area of our life if it's if you can hit that that mediocre middle

that's a danger zone you're comfortable it's a danger zone and it gives you the illusion that you're doing better than you are because you've got this security blanket whatever your security blanket is it's like i'm okay i'm doing okay you don't have that motivation that you're talking about like things are bad i have to change something what did you oh your quote i love so much you can wander into debt

you cannot wander out yeah you got to get fired up if you're going to do something you got to get your payments on anything if you're going to transform your life it's going to involve the most painful of all emotions and that's embracing change stepping face long

into change intentionally i'm going to

step up i'm going to bust into this thing and i don't care if it's you know your marriage is just kind of instead of having an awesome marriage you know you gotta you gotta go something's gotta give i gotta change something you know it's like man i tell you the kids man you know you kids are out of control when you go that's it that's it you know my mama used to say

the worm has turned i don't even know what that meant except the beatings were about to begin you know but the uh uh turned out it's shakespeare who knew mom might knew shakespeare but um but you know all that was was she had reached the end of her rope you know yeah the little grand babies the little girls denises and rachel's little girls are over at the house of

the night and they're jumping bed to bed to bed to bed and i'm trying to get them in bed and sharon's got the boys in other room putting them down i'm sitting in the rocking chair and i'm just girls sit down girls lay down girls stop it and they're just getting more and more wound up and one of them says papa dave's getting frustrated yeah it's coming mama mama agreed

she said when mama gets frustrated it ain't good so that means my daughter's doing a good job i like that that's right so i said girls you're gonna have to lay down but i mean the worm has turned you have to have this moment in your life where you say enough i've had it and sometimes being

in the comfortable middle doesn't make you do that that's true and you have to manufacture that in your emotions and just decide

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so thanks for joining us america christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today i'm dave ramsey your host this is the ramsey show we talk about everything having to do with your life back in the day it was me getting you out of debt which we still will help you do but the whole purpose of that is for you to have a better life christy talks about having a better life by having more confidence

and avoiding fear and having balance in your life and speaks all over america to companies and churches and writes a uh devotional that just came out that it was a best-selling book which we didn't know devotionals could be best sellers i was something we learned something that's good that's cool you proved it well it was the first one we get to put it out as a company which was awesome

so we proved the idea well and yeah and also i mean i didn't know there was like a devotional bestseller list but there is so i just learned something but it's cool because you made it and um it's it's a great great uh read and uh 40 days to get back to you yep and uh you've gone through it a couple times with folks on instagram are

you gonna do that again well i'm actually in the middle of it right now because and this is interesting i don't know if we've talked about this dave but i chose the number 40 because it's a biblical number sure and it's a great uh non-intimidating length of time for someone to go through but the one of the instances of 40 in the bible was the 40 days that jesus appeared to people

after his resurrection so starting we're in that period following easter that's what we're doing so i started on monday after easter on day one and we're tracking so today is day 15 i believe okay day 15 or 16 and so i'm walking

through it right now actually so it's amazing how quickly these easter or christmas gets in your rear view mirror was only 15 days ago i know i know and then mother's day is coming up so it's kind of nice in between eastern mother's day to walk through this women's devotional that i've written and um and it's been cool we've been you're doing it on instagram yeah okay christy be right be right yeah just going live

once a week and walking through kind of having a discussion um you know and just seeking god because the whole premise was can you imagine how people after jesus rose how once the word had spread that he was appearing on the earth how people were looking for him right they're like i mean i've heard he's walking around and appearing but they must have been really looking for him with a new level of intensity

and so that's the heart behind this is let's look for god for the next 40 days together through this pretty cool all right carol is with us in los angeles hi carol welcome to the ramsay show hi dave how you doing great how can we help okay so um i spent the past 10 years taking care of my mom and she passed away last year and i was

wondering if i should sell her house and buy a condo in a neighboring state

wow what an emotional thing

you've been in this home and so you've been this angel a blessing to her for a decade of your

life yeah i i didn't work or anything i took

care of her i take it you're single yes i am and what's the house worth a house is worth i have to have it appraised because of probate but it's right now the low end and what the neighbors going it's like 850 000. yeah okay and you're the sole heir

i assume yes i am okay uh and

how are the rest of your finances what are you gonna do for a career now i don't know i was thinking of maybe

doing um things i've kind of dreamed about working on since i was a kid like writing and then i got into um

coding when i was in college and that was kind of my day job before i started taking care of my mom so i thought i would do like some independent projects like um

making video games and things like that

my coding so when did she pass she

passed away last april actually so what have you been eating on for the last year what are you using for money um my best friend she um has been paying me to take care of her kids to watch them because you know they have to stay home because of copay so you've had you've had a nanny or a governor's gig yeah okay all right

well um

it sounds to me like you're someone that's given your life away for a while and it's time for you to live a part of this next section for you yeah what are you thinking christie yeah

the thing that the thing that jumped out to me even in the question and i don't you know as far as the house i don't i don't know but i think i think what you need right now carol is just community around you just to some people to help you rediscover uh

who you are and what you want to do in this new season i would definitely love for you to stay on the phone we can send you a copy of my devotional that's what we talked about 40 days to get back to you to figure out who you are in this new season and and even um i'd love to invite you to be a part of the academy where

we can kind of put our arms around you as you discover maybe there is something you can do on your own it's a side business or small business or freelance whether it's coding or right or something else writing yeah we can we can walk with you in this next new season i'd love i'd love to do that so we can definitely um give you those things to help

you in this transition but as far as the house i mean i want to uh i don't know simultaneously applaud you for how you've served your mom and now how you're serving this family um and at the same time for doing that

i i want to encourage you in this next you did the right thing in this next season i don't want you to define yourself by how you've given yourself away okay

in the next season i want you to do some things for carol it's your turn

and that's not selfish it's just that you put some of your dreams desires wishes on the shelf for other people

and i don't want you to by default sign

up for another season of that yeah it's time for you and your mom would want you to go on and do the next thing yeah because she she did say that like

towards she was like you know maybe it would be better if she wasn't here and i could well we don't want him i told her not to say yeah don't say that that's not what we're talking about but i mean but we are saying that you know you've had a year since her passing to to grieve and to reset your mind uh yes i'm selling this house not necessarily

because i'm selling the house because it represents the past that's good yeah i grew up in this house yeah it's all about the past and the past is in the past it has passed and so let's you know let's say all right let's pretend we're 18 years old and the world is a white board and we have a million dollars what could we do anything we want

it

right i mean there's nobody telling us what to do there's nobody guiding us we can do anything we want to do because that's exactly where you are only you're not 18. yeah and that can be

intimidating but it can also be exciting it should be it should be both yeah

this kind of a journey is exhilarating because it's parts of it are unknown but yeah i'm selling it i'm moving as i

start to uh figure out what my next chapter is i'll know where to buy in the meantime i might just put this money in the bank and i might go i don't know uh whatever it is you've always wanted to do backpack the appalachian trail i don't know rent travel yeah i don't have any idea but i mean whatever it is your your thing is you've had

you got a pretty good number of things on the dusty shelf get them off and blow the dust off of them and sell the house and let's get going and just i i just want to encourage you to do that and encourage you to say that that does not make you a bad person you've been a saint you've been an angel and the proper way to

uh uh to to continue to serve is to find

your best self in this next phase and that's not necessarily to give yourself away yeah uh so hang on we'll have kelly pick up we're gonna send you a copy of the christie's devotional and going to give her business boutique academy yeah yeah so we're going to sign you up for both and it's on open enrollment right now and so we'll sign you up for both and get you going and it's our gift to you

to help you live this next phase yep this next season for you so um but again this has nothing to do with the value of the house the location of the house it's not a financial decision it's a an emotional a fresh start fresh start decision yeah that's a good one it's the white board man what a cool situation though yeah yeah i mean how many people would go i have no nothing binding me

i don't have anything holding me back i can i don't she's not married she doesn't have kids she doesn't have a job that's weighing her down she doesn't have and she's got a million dollars and that's where you go what do you want to do and that can be one of the hardest questions to answer what do you want intimidating is crowd yeah what do you want to do

you can do anything yeah it's going to take some time for you to figure that out i think yeah go ahead and send her proximity principle for by ken coleman too let's see if we can i want to interfere in our life here in the best way in the best way a papa dave kind of way [Laughter] this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today we're answering your questions about your life and your money open phone's at triple eight eight two five five two two five james is in evansville indiana hi james how are you hi dave pretty good good what's up

i have a college planning question

uh my wife and i have five young daughters ages 10 to 13 months and

we have uh five 529 plans

and are contributing the max for the

tax incentive of 2500

we're now in a point in our life where we could be applying more but what does that look like for

having five kids

and hearing about eight years

having one go off to college yeah well

about five years no no no eight years i'm not

yeah okay all right

um no it's more like thirteen i mean you've got it yeah oh there it is ten years i'm sorry i wrote i couldn't try and look at these numbers i wrote it down i couldn't find them uh all right so

you know what what it amounts to is is you need to be putting in more for the 10 year old than you do the 13 month old because the 13 month old's got a lot of time to grow in that account

and so um who have you got your 529s with you got an advisor yes yes i haven't

we have an advisor we've got about 17 000 that it's grown right now for that ten-year-old no no no ten-year-old okay what i would do is sit down with the advisor and make sure that the money is invested in the 529 in good growth stock mutual funds that have a good track record first if it is then i would ask them to

add to tell you okay in order for the 18

the 10 year old in eight years to have x number of dollars what have we got to add to that account in order for the next one to add you know in so many years what have we got to add to that account and it might end up that you're putting i'll just make up numbers you might end up putting three thousand dollars or four thousand dollars in the ten year

olds and you might end up putting 500 in the 13 month old and they'll end up

with the same amount

okay because you got started later on the 10 year old yeah and so you didn't have as many years for the money to grow so uh it's um

it's kind of like life uh equal

is not fair

yeah they've already been told that yeah equals not fair fair is not equal

and so uh you know if you've got a special needs little brother little sister we're gonna give more money and make sure that that child is taken care of equal is not fair fair is not equal

is there fair is what you have at the county

is there a magic sauce for

or about what should be put in uh

to be able to fully fund them uh

well what you need to do is just determine what your goal is uh your goal amount and you say okay as an example they're gonna go to in-state schools they're in evansville indiana they're going to go to the university of indiana okay our indiana university all right and you call them and go what's it cost to go there and uh what are your projections on your tuition uh eight years from today

and they tell you it's going to take 150 000 to go there with room and board four years eight years from now and uh for four years and i'm making up numbers i don't know okay today today tuition is about ten thousand dollars plus room and board per year for an in-state school average

nationally and so you're probably going to find somewhere around the ten thousand dollar number per year so that's 40 000 plus if

they're gonna stay in a dorm and eat

okay so i'm gonna guess and say they can go for a hundred grand eight years from now that's maybe 125 but you know you can actually get the number from the university bother them a little bit or wherever you think you want them to go to school and then you can back into the actual goal with your advisor they can put it into a financial calculator and go okay in order to do that

you need to save twenty six hundred and forty two dollars a month or twenty six hundred forty two dollars a year they can tell you exactly what you need to do in order to get there once you have that goal and you have the time period it's a financial calculation at that point it's a math it's a math formula that goes into a financial calculator and you can back into

it so um but you need a target not just so far your target has been we want to save for college it was very vague but if you really want

to do it perfectly and you want to know when you're done this is how we did it okay what we did was we said we wanted i

want a hundred thousand dollars per kid and i backed it out for a four-year-old and i said in order to do that today i need x in there and i just i had made some money that year and i just put x in there and then i was done that account was over i never added to it again never had to i put enough in there that it was gonna grow for the four-year-old in 14 years to this much so when daniel ramsey got ready to go to school there was a hundred thousand in there for him you know and it was ready to go and we just picked out a number but uh you need if you want to be really nerdy about it and i do recommend that if you know what your goal is you can back into your numbers exactly i've got a question about the scholarship side of things because i know with 529's like it specifically for school if you save all this money and then your kids are just get a ton of scholarships what do they do with that money 100 of what they get in scholarships can be removed tax-free know what now if they get if you got a hundred thousand dollars and then you get forty thousand dollars in scholarships you can take forty thousand dollars out and then another product oh really wow yeah you just had to prove that you just have to prove the scholarships if you're audited i didn't know that so you can remove it and you've had tax-free growth on your money in a 529 wow that's cool that's wonderful because it incentivizes the child to get scholarships and that type of thing no they got money free money totally okay great yeah i mean they go buy a house with it when they get out of college i didn't realize that's a pretty cool thing you're setting up millionaire stuff here yeah setting your kid up to be a millionaire before they're 30.

because if they come out of school with a hundred thousand bucks or 150 000 bucks and no student loan debt and they go get a job making 70 or whatever they're making these days right doing whatever yeah oh my gosh i mean you know 22 years old you're making that and you've got zero debt and you already have a paid for house ding ding you're a millionaire by the time you're 30.

doing dave better than i deserve what's up

so i have a dilemma i'm currently in denver colorado and i'm working at a great job i make about 90 000 a year it's a contract position and they told me already that they'd like to extend it at the beginning of the new year for another year but my last job has now invited me to

come back and join them for a substantial raise they'd like to offer me sixty 160 dollars to move to orlando florida and um work there for eight months until

the end of the year and then the position will be over with my question is should i stay in colorado knowing that i have a good paying job and it'll last a good long while or should i go to florida for the additional money which is roughly about 3 000 i'm sorry three times my take-home pay each month here in colorado well no it's not three times nine eight times three is not 160.

what do you do for a living so yeah

with my um it's about nine thousand dollars take-home pay for the job in orlando florida and about five thousand three hundred dollars take home pay for the job in denver okay that's not even double it's not five times as much okay you tell me you don't do math for a living okay what do you do i don't do math really i do construction thank god okay what kind of construction are you doing i do 5g fiber optic construction good for you okay i get it and so um how old are you

i'm 24 years old what do you want to be doing when you're 34 i want to be running my own telecommunications business which one of these two decisions takes you their best

i think they both i think they both take each one takes you their best

the kind of job that i'm at nah

because your business is so you you are a contract to contract to contract anyway you guys jump from job to job anyway in your world don't you yes sir all right jump drop the job and take the money unless you just don't like orlando i would be it's an adventure dude you're 24 go make some money that's my opinion yeah you're young do it while you can this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five

two two five matthew starts off this hour in indianapolis hi matthew how are you i'm doing well dave

how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

so i'm 22 years old i make about 80 000

a year before bonuses i have 20 000

in cash and then about 50 000 i have in etfs and mutuals i'm getting ready to buy my first house right now i know the housing market is crazy my main question is is what my plan to do is take 25 000 out from my investment account

put that towards a down payment do a 15-year mortgage on a 225 000 house is that a smart thing to do i could take out more but i still want to keep that emergency fund but the area on man is projected about 10 increase in home values in the next year dude you're a stud you're 22 and you're making 80.

yes sir what do you do i'm a systems engineer good for you man you're killing it and you're single correct are you uh dating someone seriously no sir i'm not okay all right

um the other question i do have is i

am i have a guaranteed at least ten thousand dollar bonus next year and then more than likely another additional 10 to 15 on top of that so i should be slightly over 100 000 for next year and following years as well phenomenal okay

so uh i would just adjust your plan

slightly um because i know from the data

that we have having studied 10 167 millionaires

that the typical millionaire has

two primary components to their first million to five million dollar net worth and you should be there by the time you're 30 with the trek you're on okay and if you want to get there the shortest way here's what the data tells us a paid for house and loading up the 401k

correct i do max out my 401k um company

good matches five percent i put five percent in and then invest the rest into etfs and mutuals good so what that tells me is the paid for house is the next thing on the equation agreed agreed which means i'm keeping only the emergency fund i'm dumping the entire etf onto this onto this thing as my down payment to thereby have less debt to reduce and then i'm going to throw bonuses

and money i would have been throwing in the etfs above the fully funded 401k at this mortgage dude your house is paid for by the time you're 25 26 years old you got it and you're rolling into

a house at that point that's probably worth 500 and um you know and let's just go ahead and run the math out on your 401k to you know for what eight years and i think you're a millionaire got it that's what i'm hearing i'm doing this in my head pretty quick but i think i'm pretty close but uh and and here's the thing the other thing that's gonna happen is uh you're you statistically are very likely

during this eight year period of time to meet and marry the love of your life at which point you will discover you have bought the wrong house

right new plan new house and so that will adjust our little plan

upset the apple cart but that's okay it's worth it's worth the cost brother

you'll still you're still gonna get there because you got a plan but here's the thing the two data points are full 401k paid for house and if you're always aiming back at those at the earliest possible age you're going to build the greatest possible amount of wealth awesome that's for your first five million dollars worth of uh wealth and that's what a you know you know we call them everyday millionaires or baby step millionaires

because they follow the baby steps and i've met three out here in the lobby today that followed the baby steps over the last decade to 15 years and been listening to this show one guy said he'd been listening to the show 20 years yeah you know and um he started doing

this stuff and he just you know got out of debt which gave him the ability to invest and pay off his home yeah we were talking earlier about changing your family tree it's a compounding effect not just financially financially mathematically it's a compounding effect in the decision making you make different decisions two and three and four steps later because of those first decisions so i i love to see how that can have a ripple effect for

the rest of your life and i'm starting to do some writing on this millionaire stuff because i'm starting to see some nuances with our baby step millionaire community um and that's what i'm calling it for right now i may change the name of it but i mean that's that's i'm starting to and one thing i've noticed is is that the millionaire that sometimes what keeps people off

the track from being a millionaire is they want to try to be a billionaire and a bill billionaires are a billion is a thousand million and uh in the forbes 400 i i got to look it up fresh it's been a year since i've looked it up i need to look it up again but in the forbes 400 it was that almost all the 400 are billionaires now

the 400 wealthiest people in america it used to be three-quarters of them more but i think they just about all are now and like 70 of them are first-generation

billionaires but the way you become a billionaire is different okay explain that than the way you become a millionaire because the typical millionaire the one to five million first thing that happens to billionaires is obviously first they become a millionaire right before they become billionaires right right but the difference from jumping from five million to a thousand million is a big jump yeah

okay so you get that first five million the way we're talking about here walking the baby steps that's a baby step millionaire but very few but billionaires didn't use their 401k and they paid for a house to become a billionaire right in almost every case they um

started a business and took it public

or didn't but they uh the business

uh somehow there was a business leverage angle okay you know uh you know uh to where you know oprah owns this massive media empire and that's what made her a billionaire it wasn't getting paid to do the oprah show right she she used her entrepreneurial skills behind the scenes to build and she's a billionaire uh or uh the kathy family you know chick-fil-a yep kathy passed away

but he was a billionaire and the kids are uh but that's the value of chick-fil-a yeah it gives them that the business value uh the hobby lobby family the green family uh again it was the value of that it wasn't working a job and loading money in the 401k they got them there uh so they worked the job and load the 401k and along the way they became millionaires

but then the way they make this huge leap but the difference but people have in their mind when they say wealthy what billionaires do you know private jets right expensive cars six houses millionaires don't have any of that millionaires don't have private jets and expensive cars and four houses yeah they don't billionaires do right but if you try to jump from where you are to billionaire you make a lot of mistakes on get rich quick yeah yeah

because you're you're skipping you you got gotta do the tortoise first yeah yeah and win the race to get in that one to five and then that positions you to do some of these other things yeah and and you can go big from there it's interesting but uh uh you know it it but if you try to if you think of wealthy as a billionaire then it's unattainable number one number two

you start doing stupid stuff to try to get there before you do the basics yeah so do the baby step millionaire first then start thinking about billionaire level stuff

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so

christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five our famous ten dollar sale is back including her book number one bestseller business boutique equipping women to make money doing what they love we've had over 40 best-selling books here at ramsey including a few of mine and that includes the total money makeover and they're 10 each now

this is a hardback book this is sixty percent off you can't get this kind of deal anywhere else you wanna get the total money makeover for ten dollars a guy here bought a case a while ago yeah i saw that i mean yeah ten dollars a piece my gosh i mean think about that that's a nice high quality nice gift to give a friend so give them christy's book rachel's books uh anthony's books uh ken coleman deloney's quick read is out

there for ten dollars on anxiety uh it's all there and you can get it all at ramseysolutions.com and our online store and that's not all we got a gift for you as well if you enter to win our ramsey cash giveaway we're giving away 500 cash every week and a grand prize of five thousand dollars cash saying you can enter up to once a day for extra chances to win

so make sure make sure you go to ramseysolutions.com giveaway and enter once a day there's no purchase necessary must be 18 or older or you can text cash to 33789 text cash

to 33789 to enter our

giveaway now open phones at triple eight

eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll talk about your life your money it is a free call thanks for joining us

our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from amanda in colorado she writes i make 100 000

a year and i'm on baby step 2 with 55 000 in debt i want to switch careers and become a financial coach my plan was to keep my current job until i'm debt free but i've been offered a position working 15 hours a week and earning 40 000 a year it would be an excellent financial base while building my coaching business should i wait until i'm out of baby step two or make this change now i'm curious your thoughts on this one because you you're in baby step two we got fifty five thousand dollars of debt making a hundred thousand dollars a year which is awesome that's a good shovel to get to knock that out but wants to start a financial coaching business well even if she didn't have the debt let's just pretend she know the debt okay she makes a hundred thousand dollars a year and she wants to drop to 40.

nothing smells as bad as a broke salesman yeah you're they feel that desperation except a financial counselor

financial coach that's broke yeah that's that's probably not that's probably oxymoronic almost so yeah uh yeah what you want to do is start your financial coaching business as a side hustle get it growing and let's get some income coming in now if you told me you were making uh 30 or 40 on your side hustle financial coaching business and you wanted to drop to 40 now we've got a total of 80 and we're dropping from 100 down to 80 hoping we can make up the other 20.

right i'm making that number up but it could be 45 but you need to have and it's not 10 yeah you don't want i mean if you're making 40 on your site on your little part-time thing and you do make 10 that's 50. you cut your income in half yeah the boat's not close enough the dock anytime you're going to jump uh uh unless you get fired from an

income to a to a self-employed income go ahead

and get the side hustle up because i tell you make different decisions when you're not broke yeah when you're running a business and you're broke and you have to make money by friday to eat it changes your decision-making paradigm and it damages it it sucks the joy out of it too the fun for why you started it it takes the fun out of it and to your point

the customers feel it because you're desperate they feel that but you don't have to you can still start your side financial coaching business you don't have to have just this job you just find the hours in different times to be able to do that build it up on the side absolutely absolutely open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five dalton is in oklahoma

city hi dalton how are you i'm good it's

awesome to talk to you mr ramsey you too sir what's up uh so i got a question i'm in baby step two um i've got some student loan debt and then truck debt i actually just listed my truck last night i'm going to end up selling it and i just want to know what kind of car

i need to be looking for after i can sell it and what price range how much student loan debt on it uh 46. what do you owe on your truck

uh 24 and i kelly blue booked it for

32 to between 32 000 35 000.

wow so you put on the market for how much uh 34. nice truck and

yeah yeah it's a bad purchase but um

but it's a sweet truck yeah okay

but i want to get rid of it and how old are you yeah student loan as quick as possible 27 and what do you make did you say uh 86

that's for you good for you all right

and how much student loan debt again forty six thousand okay you told me this but i'm trying to wrap my brain around all these different numbers okay so uh if you sell the truck for 30 and you got six thousand dollars in your pocket and you bought a six thousand dollar car you'd have no car payments and you'd be only attacking your student loan debt right yes sir so yeah your budget ought to be

what cash you get in your hand from from

the truck sale net of uh net of your debt

so you pay cash for a little get around car and um you know four five six thousand or whatever it is you end up with right or a little bit less but i mean really if you buy a thousand dollar car and put 4 000 towards the debt that doesn't fix anything you're 86 now without the truck payments what fixes it you're shedding yourself of a 600 truck payment right yes so yeah yeah that was kind of my question if i could if i could sell it for like the 32 or 33

and if i could make you know eight or nine off of that that's fine anywhere in there you know because here's the thing okay let's say you buy a six thousand dollar truck and you put three thousand dollars towards it or you buy a nine thousand dollar truck and you'll put anything towards it you haven't changed your student loan equation that much what changed the equation was getting rid of

the truck what changed the equation was you make 86 000 and you are now game on you are you are a man with a plan that's what's changing the equation you're the secret sauce so the amount that you use from the truck to put towards the student loans is not what's going to fix this it's getting rid of the truck that fixes it and the fact that you're freaking paying attention now

and don't have any truck payments okay you see what i'm saying mathematically that's the case yep yep that was kind of my thinking was yeah so whatever you want whatever you make on the truck you can spend up to that on a car but not a dime more

gotcha or less you could spend 2 000 less it wouldn't be a bad exercise to you know just as a matter of self discipline because here's what's going to happen you're going to be 100 debt free in

less in about a year okay yeah

and then you're going to be saving up for your emergency fund and then you're going to save up to move up in truck because you should you don't need to be driving a 6 000 truck making 80 grand 90 grand and no debt you probably can move up in truck then and pay cash so you're gonna move back up later so this is a temporary move it's probably a two to three year move is all so you're fine really good job dude

good job

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five mitchell is up next in lincoln nebraska hi mitchell welcome to the ramsay show hi dave

thanks for having me absolutely how can we help well

i'm i'm in a bit of a predicament

it's bro i've got it upon myself of course but let me tell you about myself i'm 27 years old in 2014 i got an associate's degree and in two weeks i'll have a bachelor's of architecture good for you i'll have a private oh thank you i have a private pilot's license that's a hundred hours and um forty five thousand dollars in student loans about fifteen thousand dollars cash on hand twenty five thousand in an ira

and i pay about 600 per month in rent um so i'm switch i'm considering switching careers to aviation because i'm finding i'm just not very happy in architecture

it's going to take a lot of money to switch and time and i'm just not really sure if it's the smartest thing but i think maybe i should choose happiness all through money what do you think well i don't think they're exclusive from each other

that's a that's a that's the dangerous assumption that somehow happiness has to be associated with being broke

um happiness has to be associated with not making money okay so i'm going to choose option c

none of the above let's find a way to

live a great life and make a lot of money doing it and that that you know that'll make you happy money won't make you happy but um you know this i i often hear people

say things like well i'm gonna go to work for this uh thing that has meaning in my life but they don't pay anything and i'm like well i got a lot of meaning in my life and i make a lot of money so because i help a lot of people so they're not mutually exclusive you can do both as a matter of fact there should be a tie and a capitalistic economy to serving an income and so um

i think you back up pan back a little bit more and say okay what are the steps to get you where you want to be when you're 34 years old or 37 years old a

decade from today what have you got to do to get where you want to go and what's the shortest path to get where you want to go and if

you're going to be an architect and you're going to be miserable well that's not that's not that options off the table i'm curious why are you miserable like what's what's what did you what got you into it that was true that you loved it or wanted to do it what has changed that you no longer love it what's going on well i guess i thought it was a logical continuation for my studies and i've always i thought like it was a

strong suit for me you know i was just playing with my strengths and decided that was a good field but maybe perhaps my interactions with other people is the most important thing as to why i'm choosing another field i don't even really have work experience i'm mostly going off of my educational experiences your interactions with other people turned you off on architecture what does that mean i don't know it's just a very egotistical field maybe

not really and you could you could decide that it's not not really you don't have to be that i work with architects every week and i don't have any i don't deal with any of them that have ego problems i wouldn't put up with them having an

ego problem but i mean i'm building two buildings right now we're working with architectural firm and there's five different architects involved in that and they're all just really nice people so if you let me ask you this mitchell if you take the people out of it and your ideas about is your professor's a jerk is that what you meant i mean oh i got him okay okay all right okay the actual act of architecture what you

do okay what you have learned to do in school and what you would be doing hypothetically do you like doing that type of work

i don't think i do anymore okay i think

i'd rather fly a plane well yeah it's addicting

the problem with aviation is it's a drug

uh ask any pilot they'll i mean i i've been told a thousand times don't get your pilot's license ramsey because you're gonna get sucked in it's like golf i mean you're gonna get sucked into the vortex and you can't get out um so yeah i mean it's

the pipe i mean pilots just live to land and take off i mean it's just like i think and so um i don't doubt that i i

i

i'm okay if you want to go be a pilot i'm not okay if you want to go in a hundred thousand dollars in debt to do that and i'm not okay if you say that means i'm going to be broke when i'm 37 and that's call and call that happy that's just not true okay so you need a different track on your pilot career that cause you the cause that causes you to not be broke as a pilot pilots can make good money and do make good money um i mean private jet pilots as an

example you know they make a hundred and a half on average and that you know a lot of architects don't make that so you can get there but

you know it's just a matter what what you know the hours logging and the uh you know the lessons and your license now but i assume your license on turboprop right oh no i just have a very basic um ptl yeah yeah okay and so you got a lot of work to do to make any money because nobody pays anybody to fly what you're licensed to fly right yeah it'll take at least two years probably 50 grand yeah okay here's here's what i would tell you to do i think christy

that we heard i i i'm gonna

i i don't agree with the conclusion you came to i i think you had a jerk professor or two and it made your life miserable and so every time you picked up uh uh uh worked you know opened up the cad drawing to work on this thing you hated architecture because the jerk that you were dealing with or two or three jerks you were dealing with or

the way some of the students acted or whatever and it and and christy challenged you on actually doing the work i think because there's correlations between pilot work you know the the amount of technical detail that you have to do and the amount of technical detail you're a technical detail guy because both of these things have that yes okay and you said it's the strength of yours

and it is i think there's a way you can make a living doing architecture while you do your pilot work i don't think you have to abandon architecture and go live on poverty while you do your pilot work i think you go and get your architecture's license get a job being an architect and then work on your hours on the weekends work on your hours at night you're going to pay to do

this it's going to take a while and you take that two years that you're talking about and you've got to fund it right and the way to fund it is be an architect well and just in a situation where you're not dealing with jerks yes it reframes architecture for you gives you an opportunity to have a good experience in architecture and actually see what that could be like maybe

you do like it you rediscover it also helps you resist the urge to just be scattered and change your mind every two years i just don't want you changing your mind every two years like stick with this let's give it a chance and then if you want to keep doing the pilot thing on the side that's great and you can switch gears when you can pay for

it you've got a little bit of money but i just got this sense that it's like well i don't like this anymore i want to do that so i don't like this morning i want to do no we if we're going to make progress we need to stick with something so give this a chance let's let's wipe a clean slate from the bad professor give it a chance make some money

and then like you said just you can continue to explore the pilot thing on the side as well and move forward if you want to if you know i had this friend that was married to a guy who was an absolute twerp and he was a jerk i mean he mistreated her in every possible way and you know slept around all over the place had affairs all

this stuff and finally she had wised up and dumped the jerk right because he was he was a nightmare and she went through this period of time where all men are evil right yeah that's that that's that wound that trauma's speaking yeah i'm gonna protect myself you know and but all men aren't evil right just because he was a jerk right and so it's the same exact thing

you know you you got traumatized right by this this process and it you

know and it's it's not that marriage is bad it's not that men are bad you just had a bad one right it's not that architecture is bad you just had a bad one right right and so um you know i i think you need to give this a chance i'm not saying when you're 37 you won't be a pilot i'm saying that's okay to be a pilot

have that as the goal but let's let's use a different path to get there that involves architecture giving it a second chance here's the thing if then you walk away from the architecture after having done it four or five years you'll never look back you'll never regret it if you do all this work and then you never go do it you may have some regrets yeah you may have good point man i'm gonna miss that that's a good point

so i want you to give her give her a little run here won't kill you and uh you're not gonna you know you gotta do something because you gotta fund this pilot's thing so that's a good way to do it this is the ramsey shop

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our scripture today isaiah 6 8 then i heard the voice of the lord saying whom shall i send and who will go for us and i said here i am send me ralph waldo emerson said don't

go where the path may lead go instead where there is no path and leave a trail christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five two bob's in sacramento hey bob welcome to the ramsey show hi there uh scenario is

i've done everything wrong according to you dave thank you for your honesty bob i'm sorry my wife and i have a mortgage on our home of about

550 000 we also lost the home

in august to the wildfires oh

no i'm so sorry i'm sorry we had just refinanced from a 3.5

to a 2.75 in may

i got another call from the mortgage company in november and said would you like to lower that to 2.25

and i said can you finance air and they

said yes so i took the 2.25 loan

i have enough capital that i could pay off the loan the only problem is the price of two befores has doubled and with the insurance settlement i don't know how much home i can build if i pay off the loan so i need

for your wise advice so what will they

give you for the burned house uh as much as

900 and 2 000 okay now what is the lot

worth uh 400 000.

okay all right do you and do you get the lot i mean okay yeah you get you get 902 from the mortgage company you pay off 550 and you get the lot but 902

is the absolute max with everything

yeah furnishings and everything uh no

that's just the house director okay that would be all the extra add-ons that the state of california has added such as sprinklers

solar and an electric vehicle water

charging station and any cost overruns

above the policy

okay so will they write you a check

for can you talk them up or your in your attorney get them to give you a check for 900 000 you pay and you pay off the mortgage out of that i'm afraid not i have the cash on hand that i could pay it no that's not what i'm asking i'm trying to figure out how much money you can get out of this freaking insurance company and walk away uh probably

hmm i'm not sure

let's make up another number okay i'm gonna call it 800.

okay okay for example purposes you got to pay off a 550 000 mortgage and so that leaves you

uh 250 000

and you have a 400 000 lot that you sell for 400 000 scrape it and sell it okay

now you've got 650 000 in your pocket

plus the money that you already told me you had to pay off the house with

you've got other capital right correct yes and it amounts to how much uh approximately

400 000. okay so

now you got a million dollars to buy a house with and i would buy a used house i wouldn't try to build right now building my wife and i are still debating about the politics of california we'd like to find somewhat someplace a little more sane yeah well million dollars will buy a lot more other places in sacramento sacramento is a wonderful town i like sacramento but

it is an expensive real estate market yes um and if you move it's not it's not it's not orange county uh silicon valley expensive but it's expensive and so uh it is california expensive you know so i mean if you said we wanted to move to xy state now a million dollars going to buy a lot more and this is your escape route

you don't build you don't rebuild here

have you got any wise words that i could use to convince my better half about leaving california or about rebuilding both number one rebuilding's not going to make sense because it's the worst possible time to buy two befores and uh steel and copper

and plywood there's a shortage on all of

it right now and it's all doubled and in some cases tripled and so you're gonna have trouble you're gonna have a lot of trouble putting back a house even the size that you had before you're gonna come out hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead not building okay because of the because of building cost right now yes you know it's uh if you want to build a house it's okay right now

but this is you know but but if you can avoid building one right now i would i would wait a year or maybe two if you really really really want to build and there's nothing tying you to this lot scrape it and sell it okay now you got now you got a million dollars piled up and then you can buy in sacramento or you can leave california that's a separate decision than whether to build on

this lot yes two different decisions you can make

both of them you can make a decision to leave california or stay in california but i'm scraping this lot and selling it for 400 grand or 500 grand somebody'll probably buy it because there's a shortage and um you know you may get great price on a silly thing and get a and you know and

here's the thing other thing that's going through my head and i need to say it out loud one of the top 10 things that'll put you in the hospital is losing a home to a fire it is highly emotional it's like a death yes

i mean i've gone through the stages dave yeah you go through the grieving stages as if you you know you know and so it's you know bankruptcy divorce house fire loss of a child

these are the top ten things you know you get two or three of them in one year you're in the hospital i mean he'll take you out it's a it's highly traumatic and what i'm trying to do also is give your emotions some uh margin rebuilding a house building a

house is freaking traumatic yes let's not add trauma on trauma you know you building a house is for people that are in a real healthy situation and really excited about doing it and want to do it you're you're you're you're building out of necessity

or some kind of a grasping thing going on here and it's uh you know if your marriage isn't going well and you want a divorce build a house you know that's that's that's the old you know that's the truth because it'll it's like you know some people are so dumb they're like our marriage isn't going good let's have kids maybe that'll fix it you know that's a dumb butt idea

you know they do that that'll break you real fast that'll do it that'll end everything so i think i'm just trying to love you and say man if i were you i'd want to curl up somewhere in a snuggie and just get warm you know you've been out in the cold it's you're you're you're raw you know and i just man i want to if i was

you that's what i'd want to do may i throw something else into the mix quickly my wife and i are here in maryland taking care of her father who's in stage four kidney failure currently three percent kidney function oh my gosh

so you know the line god keep

or god only gives you as much as you can handle my line is he has us confused with someone else he took you right up to the line anyway yeah so it you know it might be that you don't need to make this decision right now well trust me the insurance company and the mortgage company are hounding us have have you done your

repairs yet yeah and okay well go ahead and turn it back on them and go just write us a check and we'll call it a day

so you know they have written the one check and the mortgage company has it but the mortgage companies paid off uh well they are holding the money in

trust okay well tell the tell the uh insurance company if they that you want to just settle and if you don't have an attorney you may need one because you may need a buffer between you and these characters right now they're settling a whole bunch of claims over there and i don't want you to get stuck yeah so you may need some representation especially while you're dealing with your father-in-law's illness you're in a point of weakness

there to negotiate so yeah you do have your you do have yourself full bob i'm sorry wow that puts us hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show did you know the ramsay show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts

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you

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## 189. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 21, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today number one best-selling author and best-selling author many times over we're here to answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five but that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and you are here also

to announce uh a new um offering today

a new thing you did a new thing yes a new thingy so thanks for having me on sure um and yeah i came out with my new wallets uh a few

months ago and the colors were black and camel anyone wondering but i was like i want to design a fun wall that you can use the cache envelope system but yet as a woman it's cute and you get to carry it so uh we did a special it's a limited edition so we only we only ordered a pretty small amount honestly so you'll have to get it soon because it probably will sell out in the next day or two um for mother's day but a blush metallic a

metallic blush sounds like a punk rock band which is metallic look at it on camera i mean it's just the most beautiful thing ever it's it's my favorite i mean it's i was like okay i need i have every color but i was like no this is i want to use this but what's also great about these wallets is we partnered with join which is an incredible organization they make authentic leather goods and they're incredible they take people

in parts of india um

that need a job to literally feed their family and get off the street and get off the street and get out of you know other sectors of life that are just terrible and so they give them these women and men jobs to to create this so um they're the ones that actually make it and and so it's amazing so it comes from india and then every wallet comes with a card of

the person that made it so it's handmade authentic leather uh and it's just beautiful there's ten card slots in here so for gift cards like qvc or something oh man

this is correct no but then it has like the envelope systems there and in it yeah and you know a pocket for change zipper gold accents it's just beautiful so we did it for mother's day so if you need a gift for your mom you can get the new wallet metallic blush i'm

telling you that's a great name well we did thank you i didn't name the color but that's the name of the color but i we you know we pulled my tribe and

people that i've bought the wallet okay if you want another color because that's what it keeps saying another color and it was like pink light pink blush pink pink pink pink pink we want pink we want pink and so the metallic pink is there it is it's beautiful yes yes yes yes so again you go to ramsay solutions.com to order it we have a limited uh quantity

and then it's going to be gone forever but it's funny so it does it has the whole envelope system built in 10 debit card slots built in coin pouch wristlet the whole thing and uh our product guys have worked very very hard on the development of this thing for the other two colors to start with and then adding this color to it and um you know uh

the truth is i had absolutely nothing to do with any of this rachel had a little bit to do with the design speaking into it and speak you know so it would do what she wanted it to do but um so ramsay solutions.com

and just check out uh products or go to the store slash store and you can get the new metallic blush

wallet and in the inside the envelopes it's like this mauve color in there okay with the plaid oh yeah it's important this is very pretty all the ladies will appreciate it all the ladies will appreciate it i have no idea i would imagine you're right but yeah yeah so check it out dave ramseysolutions.com store the metallic brush blush uh rachel criswell and we really you know you guys know out

there the supply chains are all screwed up shipping lanes are all screwed up getting stuff here from another country and getting stuff here from north carolina is dad gum near impossible these days so uh you know we really did end up with a limited quantity because of everything so screwed up and so it it that's not right and we did it because we didn't and i mean yeah

the logistics of it but also it's a color that's not gonna just be consistent like throughout the years we decided let's just do a fun new color but then you're gonna not gonna like it anymore no not the blush no oh yeah it's done after this after this oh so it's like beanie babies you're gonna run it it's like you're going to run out the princess diana i'm kidding

we went to all this trouble just for a few hundred few thousand two thousand two thousand two thousand two thousand oh my god but it but but it's already telling like yesterday they sent a text out to people that signed up for the early one yeah i mean it's still no it's not gone but it's not gone but it's gonna go i keep getting updated numbers and it's fun it's great hopefully people can handle their money better

you know there we go with a metallic blush wallet open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money and your metallic blush wallets the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five i cannot believe we're doing this and they're gonna run out and never get more after you've made a hot product that just runs against my whole way of marketing things

you should always sell until nobody wants to buy we have the camel in the black color i know i know i just didn't know we were doing that i learned something new every day live here come to the meetings so that's true probably probably wasn't invited but there you go so uh all right open phones again at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll

we will talk about your life and your money the other thing you can do with with uh is you can check out rachel cruz's show it is uh of course on facebook and youtube uh live and uh the podcast is huge

uh tons of people attending that and be sure to check that out um at rachelcrews.com or ramseysolutions.com and you can find any of our personalities anything they are doing and plug into the the podcast and the youtube live streams

and the whole bit so the 14 day money finder is out there uh as well sign up for this two week challenge on rachelcrews.com the average person is finding an extra two thousand dollars with these 14 day money finder which means they get something new every day to look for money that's right yes when i created this i wanted quick tips because i just know how crazy my life is

so i was like if i'm going to do something i kind of need a something that can be quick so you can do it you know under 15 minutes or less most of these and so it's everything from as easy as signing into your checking account online which some people don't even know their password to it because they don't do it two things like insurance rates all of

it but yeah it's it's been a great i've had it for a few years now and and people i mean it works because again it's helping you get intentional with your money and you get an email once a day with an idea exactly to save money 100 yeah find money okay all right so and you sign up for that at rachelcruze.com as well so be sure and check that out again

the number here to join us is triple eight eight two five five two two five now guys i wanted to stop a second sidestep rachel this time last year most people were at home yeah yes quarantining uh

or sheltering or whatever word we used

for being trapped in your house and um

a lot of people were very afraid

about their money a lot of lost jobs

they were worried about if they were going to lose their job they were worried about the debt that they have they were worried about their emergency fund and a lot of people said you know what i'm not i'm never going to be here again and then some of you had that feeling but you never did anything about it and now you're kind of just back to normal doing stupid butt stuff again that was your wake-up call to do

the ramsey stuff to do the baby steps to get the total money makeover book to get in ramsey plus for god's sakes to get your blush wallet whatever it takes for you to change your life and never be back in that situation again you need to have a never again moment from covid where you say never again is my family going to be vulnerable financially because i didn't do the stuff to get out of debt and build the emergency fund [Music]

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thank you for joining us america open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today ashley's in west palm beach california

hi ashley how are you west palm beach

david florida florida i would think yeah i saw that on the screen and read it like i was anchorman or something okay so i knew better as i was reading it how can we help uh well um i am currently in baby step

two and i have a about ten thousand dollars left on a student loan however it's currently in part of the class action lawsuit so i'm not required to make any payments on it um so i've been using what i would have paid on that towards the rest of my snowball it's not currently accruing any interest anything like that i'm just not sure if i should pay it off what is the what's the nature of the class action lawsuit uh it was for false advertising for job

placement rates um and things like that so it was for like a technical school technical school still open no that

they're closed they went broke shut down well your student your student loan is your student loan is supposed to be forgiven under federal guidelines in that situation anyway well i was

i had already graduated from the school doesn't matter that happened so i wasn't currently really yeah doesn't matter if the school closed due to if the school went bankrupt it's an indication that they were running a scam and the fed one of the federal it's one of the few types of student loan forgiveness that actually does occur you can you actually get a high rate of these that are forgiven

so you need to get in touch with the feds and work that through you said it's a ten thousand dollar balance and it's your only debt left uh it's why i have two left i have about eight thousand left on a credit card but i've been using the student loan payments to pay down the credit card faster since i've not been required to pay payments on the student loan yeah okay well yeah what

i do is knock the credit card out and then i would save up ten thousand dollars extra above your normal emergency fund of three to six months so that if this all falls apart you can write a check and be out of debt that's what i thought you'd say but i just i needed to hear it from you yeah but in the meantime you need to investigate

the federal uh you know get on the websites with the feds because i think you're going to get this whole thing forgiven anyway regardless of the class action okay now do you think they would forgive and reimburse forever anything that i've paid that's my concern no it's just afraid no the fed the feds don't guarantee that schools don't go broke but they do forgive federally insured student loans on schools that close okay regardless of your career

if you're a current student or not yes yeah okay double check it jump in on

the student loan websites and uh uh james that site that you sent me the other day that had the different types on it do you remember what it was off the top of your head that'll touch my head but i can find it insanity okay yeah well she'll be going by then but anyway yeah it's so but there there's a site we were just looking at the other day

and uh you know there's two or three types of student loan forgiveness that actually do occur that's all yeah that's what i was about to say because usually it's one of those impossible things that it's a dream that people have that's going to happen and it usually doesn't it's called that but the pslf is the one that sucks that everybody thinks is going to happen and nobody gets that doesn't doesn't really occur

and so the public stu public service student loan forgiveness after 10 years and that's what so many people are betting the farm on and they're getting screwed and the current numbers like we just pulled this up the other day off this site that we were talking about here um the uh

227 000 people have applied for that

and only 3 000 have gotten it so it's less it's about one percent

now the type that she has or a closed school discharge it would be 100 or a discharge due to death or a discharge due to disability or there's an another one for teachers and sometimes nurses that do the inner city the or the rural underserved areas they're called that's a five-year plan and those students there's a high rate of the forgiveness on those but the public service student loan forgiveness one is the ones that joke yep so it's educationdata.org

say it again educationdata.org so if

you're still there uh it's educationdata.org

educationdata.org or data.org and um yeah that's where you can start to find out this this deal but the the if you went to and a lot of them were very few very few times just like a four-year university club right but there were a lot of these uh vo-tech things a truck driving school a computer programming school or whatever and you go in there and they run

the student that basically they're running a scam to you know get people signed student loans they cash in all the money they take off and the school closes how does that happen often enough that they decided to put it in the dead that's true yeah too often yeah yeah it's not say everybody in that space is slimy but there was enough slime in that space that the discharge due to school closing is a thing yeah that's a thing

and you don't have to do it through a class action so jump in there and learn about it and you can get the details and get moving on it sam is in atlanta hi sam welcome to the ramsey show hey thanks

dave what's up hey rachel hey dave uh thanks for tuning in call this afternoon um kinda i had a quick question so

uh my wife and i uh we're in i guess starting out baby step uh maybe step six now so we've

paid off any debts we had and got three six months of expenses and um are able to invest 15 of our

income we are set to receive about 180

000 in a inheritance in the form of a

mutual fund and our current mortgage is about 140

000. and i was just curious what

will maybe be the most a smart

thing to do with that inheritance would it be to pay off the mortgage uh immediately with it or keep it invested and continue for that to grow in the mutual fund and that's just continue to attack the mortgage sam yeah you guys are the no income yeah well you're in a great position right now because you are literally going to get be able to cash out mutual funds

and have enough to pay off your mortgage with 40 000 left over so if i woke up in your shoes and that was given to me i would pay off the house that day and be on my way to baby step 7

and continue on sam it's interesting that you said you know we're going to walk the baby steps until you got a lump sum and then you questioned it yeah yep isn't that weird i mean that's

kind of weird if you think about it but that's what it does it made you question the whole the whole theory because if if the other way if not paying it off and you and use it to invest then we would have put that in the baby steps right we would have said never pay off your house always keep your money invested right and what we found though is is that all

the millionaires that we've studied and all the tens of thousands of people we've walked with over all these 30 years that have built wealth none of them

said when interviewed oh i got rich because i kept i always borrowed all i could on my house and kept the money invested in mutual funds none of them said that none not one

you know instead i hear all the time we paid off our house and that was the biggest breakthrough because when the house was paid off man we took all those house payments we started investing those and we ended up with a million dollars so fast it was blinding and uh i and a paid for house in the mix and so you end up you know with a net worth of one to two million dollars fairly quickly yeah

and it's a good question sam because i do i understand how you got there because you're thinking okay suddenly math starts to come into play and you're thinking okay can i kind of outsmart this and invest that because i'm going to make more off the interest versus what you know i mean yeah you started but if you were going to pay it off gradually it would never would have come up right right

but the fact that there's something weird the way our brains trigger yes we'll have to ask deloney how that works because i don't there's something about the way our brains you know our brains well and and i would say sam too i i mean i would feel this way right you're working hard you guys are on baby step six yeah you've done a great job you sound like a fairly young man

you know you're not you know from just the tone of your voice so i'm like there's almost this emotion you have to catch up to for being handed 180 000 dollars like

you know you because you hardly don't feel worthy i almost wish yeah you know i wish i could hear more of his story because i'm like i bet they worked hard to you know you're just used to just cranking it out and and then you're given it it almost feels too good to be true or something it's like whoa it can't be this easy did i do something wrong or something like

it can't be this easy and and it's like your emotions haven't caught up to the reality of what's happening financially for you guys and what a blessing i mean what a gift and whoever left you that in the inheritance what a way to pass on their legacy to do something like this with this money i think it's just tremendous sam it's awesome pay off your house dude use

the house payment to become wealthy change your family tree i'm so proud for you you've done really good you've done a great job this is the ramsey show

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thanks for joining us america rachel cruz ramsey personality my daughter number one best-selling author many times over is my co-host today taking your questions about your life and about your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five nico is with us from

estonia hi nico how are you oh hello thank you how

are you sir better than i deserve what part of estonia are you in part two it's a very small city although the second biggest city in estonia rachel and i and our family visited talon a few years ago or t it's talon is that how you pronounce it yes yeah beautiful beautiful city how can we help i saw estonia and i said not many people can probably say i have been to your country

how can we help you sir me and my fiance

are moving to us to indiana notre dame for our phd degrees both in the same department we are debt-free we do not have any debt we have or our moving costs covered and we both have fellowship the thing is we will have some salary left over every month and we have no idea about american economics or how can we invest or what we should do with it should we go ahead let's let me say that we'll have about 2 000 left each month on the side after eating

providing for shelter from everything that and what should we do should we plan to buy a house maybe next year or should we invest in a different way i would love to listen to your advice wow what do you what's your phd you're studying bioengineering i am building synthetic hearts wow wow so will you be when you finish

the phd will you be returning or will you be staying in the us i haven't made up my mind yet

but i think i will stay a little bit longer too for postdoc okay

well south bend is a beautiful town been there a lot of times notre dame's a fabulous campus so you you've signed up for the a world-class ride there the um

if you're going to be there five years or longer buying a home is not a bad idea

if you're not going to be there five years or longer it's questionable

all right i was thinking the money i'm going to pay for rent which is about 1200 a month i can just pay it for mortgage and even if i don't stay there at the end i can sell the house and get some of those money back instead of well you won't necessarily unless you stay five years we don't know if the typically the house will not go up enough in value

and you've got to make sure you can get the house sold houses you know right now houses are selling like crazy the real estate market's quite hot but a few years ago you couldn't give one away so um you know you don't want to get into a home if you're not going to be there five years because your trade out for rent is not one for one

because you can turn around and lose money on the house and make you wish you had rented uh if you're not gonna if you're only gonna be there in the house two or three years or something and the south bend market's a solid market there's nothing wrong with it i you know it's not a bad place to own real estate but all real estate needs to be purchased with a five year window or longer other than that

i would just pile up the cash because nico a pile of cash just gives you lots of options and then as you decide where you're gonna stay and where you're gonna be that pile of cash can be applied wherever you are and that that's true in any economy yeah absolutely would you would you recommend him investing if he's not gonna be here five years or longer yeah

if you're gonna be if you want to play if you want to do like an index fund and park some of that money that's fine uh but uh the big thing the money's gonna give you that's gonna be more than anything else is just the flexibility which uh to move to another city if you're going to stay in the u.s to move back to estonia if you're going back

you know apollo cash just gives you options and sometimes those options are more valuable than what you might have made on an investment yeah it's good and so uh certainly real estate will be a mistake if you're only going to be there a couple years um most of the time i mean there's a few times you get out hold but i just i love real estate but it's not a short term play

and it's not a play it's not a trade-off for rent everybody's got this thing about you know versus rent it it really doesn't work out that way except in the long haul short range it does not work out that way jordan's in portland oregon hi jordan welcome to the ramsey show what's up hey dave rachel thank you both for taking the time to talk to me today sure

uh so long story short my wife and i

we just got married in august of last year i've been living out here for the past three years uh hometown is originally colorado where i own a rental property the rental property right now is under contract to be sold for 6.85 original listing price is 501 so all things considered i think is a great return on investment good night but um yeah real estate in

denver's been blowing up recently so uh what would is my wife and i we both

have some debt right now outside of the mortgage it's truck payments and credit card debt and some school and uh what we want to do is just move them forward from here we want to make be good stewards of our finances and make sure we're doing what's right and doing the best with these proceeds from the sale so i was looking for some guidance from you both today see what any suggestions

you might have in mind so how much cash will you get out of the home from what you owe what you made i mean obviously you guys made a ton on it right right and after what i calculated

after closing costs yeah commissions and all that and taxes i think we'll be walked stepping away at about 225 okay and then uh how much debt do you guys have i know you said you have truck credit card all of that how much is all that that was a boneheaded move after listening to to dave recently uh i i kind of got over my head and bought the truck and was not a whole lot down i've still got about 40 000 left on the truck uh 15.

63 000 okay all right

awesome well so um yeah jordan i mean

when you get that 225 yeah you can write a check for 63 000 be completely out of debt put a chunk of it away and for an emergency fund so you and your wife sit down and figure out okay how much is our expenses per month and multiply that by three four five or six you have three to six months worth of expenses saved for that emergency fund

and then from there i mean and you you're gonna be able to do a lot of this in like one day when you get the check from that house which is so fun uh and you're gonna be yeah i mean and then yeah start investing some of it into retirement do you guys own a home right now did you say in portland no we're uh we're renting right now complex do

you guys want to buy

a home that's what we like yeah that's our dream one of these days yeah that's awesome well after that emergency fund i mean you could take some of that for a down payment if you guys i would use the rest of it for the down payment yeah throw it over debt-free with an emergency fund and whatever's left is your down payment so if i remember you're saying three to six months in an emergency fund and going off of what our monthly expenses look like right now that's about 24 000

and then you're gonna have 130 000 bucks

to put down on the house right i mean that's that's all that gets a lot of house and i don't i mean that that's the

decision i think i've i've been we've been going back and forth on is do we want to use all of it for the down payment on the house or would it make sense to only maybe use a chunk of it and invest the rest or you know you know well again our experience from the last 30 years working with people who become millionaires is they get their house paid off yeah

and the first step to getting your house paid off is a big hairy down payment not investing the money we just do not meet very many wealthy people in the millionaire range the one to five million dollar net worth the first time people become millionaires that did it by keeping their house leveraged and investing the money almost all of them say we got the house paid off as quickly as

we could and we started investing 15 percent of our household income into retirement and then when the house got paid off we started investing even more and they end up with a million to a million and a half in in their 401ks and then their retirement plans and a paid four five six seven hundred thousand dollar house and that's how they end up with their million dollar net worth

and it it's a very stable way of doing it it's the baby steps that we teach from the total money makeover book and i would say jordan look to see the size of house you guys want you may you may be thinking that's a huge down payment that's a that's a lot of house well then don't get that much house and then that down payment will take maybe 50 of

the mortgage and then from there once all that cash is gone start investing go back to your baby steps four five and six so the pass won't be completely paid off you'll be investing before that absolutely i'll send you a copy of the book the total money makeover that has the baby steps on steroids and it shows you every detail and if you'll follow that you'll be wealthy you'll be a baby steps millionaire what's going to happen awesome jordan great job

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ramsey personality rachel cruz number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today here on the ramsey show open phones at 825-522

our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsay to get the best possible deal today's question comes from sandra in virginia i just completed baby step two

and am able to cash flow college tuition for my two teenage children this has drastically slowed down my ability to save for a fully funded emergency fund both kids work and apply for scholarships should my priority be to pay their tuition for three more years or build my emergency fund uh

sandra b to build your emergency fund so your kids they're working scholarships all that's amazing and that should all be applied to their college but hopefully they're going to a school they can afford while they're doing all of that and so it sounds you know i know as a parent it feels like okay i'm being a bad parent because i'm putting myself first i should be able to help them

because i have the ability to but you have to be able to help yourself first you need this solid financial foundation under you to make sure that if anything happens in your life you have the cash to cover it and so that emergency fund is is crucial and then saving for retirement next and then i'll be putting 15 of my income into retirement and then after that's completed as you're doing that

then you can help with kids college so um again parents it goes against their natural

um way of thinking with parenting of no no i'm supposed to help my kids and and i do want you to help your kids but you're not a bad parent if you don't help your kid with college so taking care of you first and foremost financially is the priority yeah and um

when the oxygen masks drop they don't say put your oxygen mesh on your kid first they said put the oxygen mask on yourself first then you are able because you can breathe and you haven't passed out to take care of your children and so retirement unless you die

is going to occur emergencies

are going to occur period college

may or may not occur now they're in school so it is occurring but you know we just have to find a way to do this we have to find a way to push it through pull this off and and you guys are going to scratch around i think they need to have applied for more scholarships i think they applied for three and they quit and they need to do 300.

yeah and i think they work but i don't think they work enough i worked 40 to 60 hours a week when i was in school most people work while they're in college most people in america work while

they're in college it's highly unusual for someone to not work while they're in school i mean i don't know where we got this idea that people don't have to work while they're good now these kids are working they're working they're working well choice too i'm just saying what are you doing for money are you making stinking minimum wage or you're doing something that's actually profitable yep because

you know flopping whoppers is tough to pay tuition with right at minimum wage it's just really hard to do so you need to do something where you actually make some money whether it's an entrepreneurial endeavor or whether it's hard work that other people don't want to do like cutting grass delivering pizzas you know you can make a lot more money doing some things than you can doing other things

when you for college work absolutely and so we need to address that we need to address the scholarships and how many we need to address where they're going to school is it affordable and if you address all of those things i think you guys can pull this off but it is not healthy to um

go with the natural instinct of i'll take care of my children first which you should i mean you should you know in you know we most of us would say we would jump in front of a bullet for our kids most of us would say we would dive in front of a car and push them out of the way for our kids all of that is true

but that's a life or death situation uh you know we would feed our children before we fed ourselves that's a life or death situation this is financial yeah and uh and so it's it goes against your natural instinct but it's also the right way the wise way to do it i am suggesting you help with college but only after the emergency fund's in place and 15 is going into retirement as rachel said

so guys what we figured out a few years ago is there's 73 000 things coming at you that wants your money and then when you get some money because you went to work or because you get a lump sum or because you sold your rental property or whatever it is you get some money you go i don't know which of these 73 000 do i do how do

i do this and people become overwhelmed and they do nothing and then they end up doing something stupid with the money instead of actually being intentional and having a plan so 20 some odd years ago almost 30 years

ago coaching families we determined

that you needed a very specific clear path and we developed that over many years

in actual practice it was not theoretical meaning tens of thousands of families that we walked with to develop these highly tuned baby steps

and baby step one comes

before baby step two

it's not an accident that two is after one and that three is after two and that five is after four and that six is after five and that four

is before five these are not accidents

this is a highly developed

highly uh processed

series of concepts that are have proven

to tens of millions of families in america now to be the shortest distance between where you are in wealth now you can go make up your own freaking plan but your plan got you where you are

and so you need to decide you know you

don't need to call rachel and anthony and christy and deloney and me and coleman and ask us if baby step three should be after baby step two it is

that's why we called it three

and you don't need to change it it you know it's a pretty and it doesn't really change there's

it is the shortest method to get there

shut up and do it okay tell me this do you feel like you've heard more of this happening in

the last five years the last hour

the last few years versus over the last 20 because i feel like more than ever today the culture it's a it's it's a little bit infested with yeah but this is my snowflake i'm a snowflake i'm unique you're unique but the law of gravity applies to all snowflakes i know but i'm just saying it did you see it culturally like do you think that that like do

you have do you see this resistance or have you always seen it no it's always it's always been it's a natural because it's your unique i mean people say yes because what happens is the very confusion of the 73 000 things you can do with money yeah yeah you have to bring it back to the table continually until you actually believe that there is

logic and data

and decades and tens of millions of

lives that have done it the right way and gotten the positive result until you submit yourself to the plan

you know it's like hiring a personal trainer and he says well you probably need to eat less yeah but i'm not going to do that i just want to do the workout you know well no you got to eat less fat boy you know that's what i'm looking in the mirror i got a keg he's got a six-pack why am i arguing with the six-pack boy about nutrition

when i'm fat why am i arguing with him he told me what to do he i hired him i paid him to tell me what to do and then i've got a better plan and then i look at my belly and go well how's that a better plan you know this is what ought to go through people's head yeah it's true it's true or the trainer says

do more lunges i'm like i don't want to do those i'm not doing it i don't like leg days

i don't like leg day i don't think i want to do that yeah i think i'm just going to pick out i'm going to do my version of your plan that works because my version has got me where i am it's the dumbest thing ever well it's not the dumbest thing ever it's because i know why because it feels good in the moment to do what you feel like is safe to do

and stepping outside of what you feel like is safe and doing a plan that makes you uncomfortable because you're having to change that's why you know oh yeah it's comfort zone crap yeah it is exactly what it is but you have to decide you know you have to decide did your comfort zone get you to where you are yes do you like where you are no then get out of your comfort zone

you look great though i've lost 37 pounds because i looked in the mirror and i went fat boy you gotta do something about that that's shape talk i did i did look at my

shoulders alone it caused me to it caused me to lose weight though i mean you just you know your self-awareness is part of the process right oh my gosh this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host thank you for joining us rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author multiple times is my co-host today we're here to answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five travis is in boston to start off this hour hi travis how are you hi dave i'm good how you doing better than i deserve how can

we help well thank you for having me uh i discovered you about two and a half years ago right before becoming a father and you have completely changed my life and how i handle economics and the reason for my call today is because uh we currently live in a house and we have about forty five thousand dollars left in this mortgage uh no other debt uh but we're entertaining

the idea of buying a much bigger house with an in-law apartment with a that would allow mining laws to move and stay with us for 650 000

which would obviously restart my mortgage clock and the idea of being uh debt free before the age of 35 sounds very appealing but i also think that new big house

would improve our quality of life and actually make us happy as well and if you will approve of the

new house would you recommend selling or renting my current house okay well i would always sell your house

currently because you don't have the money to pay cash for the new one and so the only way we buy rentals is with cash and uh so we wouldn't keep that property unless you were able to pay cash for your home because in effect you've borrowed money for the rental otherwise so no we're going to sell it for sure what's the home you're living in worth uh about 425 000

okay all right and so we're

talking about only a 250 000

mortgage right if i sell this house yes

yes well that that's no longer in question if you're going to do what we tell you to do so i would tell you to sell the house so and then you're going to put it on as short a term as you can 15 years or less what's your household income uh 160 thousand dollars a hundred and

what 160 160 okay good

how old are you uh 32 sir you've done

very well ron good job man i'm sorry travis very well done very well done thank you i've been listening to you non-stop we've been maxing out 401ks maxing out rough iras and uh so we have a second baby coming in september so we're getting ready for it thank you awesome congratulations

so your in-laws are how old uh my laws

are in their 60s and they currently live in greece where both my wife and i my wife and i are from

okay they would move here no income they would pretty much be staying with us and be babysitters in a sense

[Music] well i'm not a big fan in general of mother-in-law and father-in-law apartments because it ends up with a weird house later uh when all of this doesn't work out but this is a very unusual situation a you've got the cultural differences between uh greece and the

u.s to where it would be more normal to have all the family in one house in the us we tend to be more individualistic um and that's just a cultural difference neither is right or wrong it's just a different way of looking at things and doing things uh then the the but i you know i looked at a house the other day had a mother-in-law apartment in

it that was a dadgum house you know attached to the other house and it was just like it made a weird house is what it did and you know and we don't we weren't moving anybody in with us so we don't want that you know so it just made a it made you have a hard property to sell later um so your configuration of the house needs to be fairly normal uh

and it can't be some bizarre mother-in-law apartment thing off the side because you're gonna make it very limited market when you get ready to sell it someday it is exactly what you're describing actually it is very bizarre we actually know the current owners we've known them for a very long time and the in-law apartment is 1900 square feet it's massive wow okay it's bigger than our current house

the in-law part of the in-law aspect is bigger than the actual house we live in right now and the main thing is about 3 000 square feet yeah i think you're gonna have trouble selling that house later very likely very likely but if you're in it for 10 15 years do you matter i mean you know if you if it's not if it's a weird house when

you move in guess what when you move out it's still going to be a weird house yeah but it is weirdness worth it though for your quality of life considering yeah you have parents coming immigrating in and i i think i i i you know in your situation i i

don't want to make a case for them not to move in with you i think moving in with you and moving to a bigger house is probably better idea i'm not sure the one you're looking at is the one because i'm going to do this in a more uh in a way that the house can be utilized more in a more traditional way when you leave

and that'll give you a much broader market the house will do better you have a higher likelihood of getting it sold you're not gonna get stuck with this white elephant which is what these things are when you build these bizarre properties and so uh you can do it if you want to do it but the downside is you're gonna have trouble getting out of it later but i would say travis to your original question though sell the current house you're in that's okay you don't wait until it's paid

that's all okay uh but the house itself the actual you know the actual house uh you know be careful with that part of it because that's where you can get burned in this whole thing because um i mean there's going to be a day when you blink twice and mom and dad are in heaven and you've got this house with this empty wing you know and it just goes fast unless life goes fast and and so that's what happens and then um you know

you end up these people that were selling this property we were looking at that's what happened to them and you know the house is eight years old and they built it specifically for her mother and you know and and it's useless it's useless because it's just so bizarre for any for a traditional family using it right without a mother-in-law i mean so i'm thinking about what am

i going to put over there in that in that thing often you know it just it made me not want to do the deal so um uh and that was three weeks ago so

but anyway you know so you can you can you can decide but that that's uh i i think the ideas that you're playing with all work but just be careful with where you put the final product uh in terms of you don't want to get stuck with something later but uh you got a great heart and obviously you've done a great job say awesome travis i mean you're not even you're 33 somebody said yeah killing it so just killing so very well done so very well done yeah and

here's the thing too the the to the rest of you you know you think about uh uh latino countries you know uh

often you know families all in one house that's not unusual but again anglos very seldom mm-hmm

very seldom uh we'll do just i mean we buy the house next door for mom right but we don't put them in our house as often not as often as other cultures do yeah and so that's where this thing called personal finance comes into play it is personal because this is a family with a a grecian heritage and so that plays into the decision making and and

it should yeah absolutely absolutely that's a good thing so uh we want to honor that want you to honor that your heritage and your your cultural upbringing and tendencies and all those kinds of things but just in the midst of it be wise that's the whole thing this is the ramsay show

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five if you've been paying attention the real estate market you know it's out of control it's crazy competition to buy a property multiple offers it's crazy inventory has been hitting all-time lows now when inventory is low it simply means there's more buyers buying than sellers selling which turns the pressure up buyers want to snag the right house sellers want to accept the right offer this is not amateur hour

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agents and we really go through and vet them we look at what they're doing all across the country we call them our endorsed local providers these are high octane high protein real estate agents and you need someone like that in your corner to play in this market if you're going to sell i mean it's a process right now you're going to buy it's a process right now

and our agents have years of industry success and they refuse to compromise your financial goals no matter what is going on out there so you can instantly connect with an endorsed local provider in your area text house 233 789 text

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to find a ramsey trusted agent near

you can we talk real estate for a second yeah let's do so we're talking during the break about just even in nashville it's just it's crazy right now like our friends are trying to buy houses and they're asking like insane over asking price and they're still not getting it like it's just wild so kovit plays into this and i know real estate you know you look over decades

and decades you see the influx of things going up and down i mean it's just like anything else but what do you i mean it just feels like it's insane right now and i don't know if that's just because we live in nashville and nationals it's everywhere so so what does covid cause people because

i would think coming out of 2020 you

almost are more conservative and you're holding tight and you're staying put because it still feels a little unstable right like we're not even i feel like out of all the stuff with covid so why

why the like why the surge well several things but the baseline on it is there's a shortage on new housing because the lumber factory shut down

and a lot of the other components of the house the factories shut down yeah a new lumber system get lumber yeah and then when you can't get it it drove the prices way up on that yeah and uh then there starts to be a frenzy around it a feeding frenzy like piranhas you know it's like crazy and uh and and so the new housing

slowed to nothing and there's this gap of six or eight months of production of the components therefore the new houses and when you take the new housing gap uh

supply out the inventory supply out then it shortens up the well i can't get a new house so i gotta go buy a used house and so it doubles doubles down plus many people looking at half the numbers of houses and so you end up with a inventory shortage of new and used housing and a shortage always cause i mean you got you know half the number of houses for sale as

there are buyers out there you know two to one three to one ratio whatever four to one whatever the ratio is then you know that just that alone did this but the coke what kovit did was it shut down not the real estate market because people are still buying houses during quarantine they were buying them sight unseen on zoom and other stuff right right but but the uh uh

the factory shutting down the supply chain getting screwed up has screwed up the economy so it's and then the buyers go crazy

yeah and then the sellers go crazy yeah and then the buyers go crazier and so there's this this cycle of just this feeding frenzy and it's all in motion and and so

you know you're seeing properties uh in lots of towns get multiple multiple offers uh you know fifty a hundred thousand dollars over asking prices yeah and they line up through the whole weekend and there's 62 offers on a house over the weekend that's not unusual in a lot of cities right now but that'll subside it'll just eventually the feeding frenzy calms down and then they'll just be

this like hangover uh you know like the housing hangover after that it'll just be like like the morning you felt this ever i mean for four years i've never seen it like this exactly yeah but uh in 19

in the 19 uh what we are going to see out of this that you've never seen your generation has ever seen is inflation inflation the components that make up the inflation index housing is one of them it's the biggest part of inflation and when housing shoots up and oil shoots up and oil has shot up too yeah it has yeah and uh you know you look at

the gas pump oh i know i filled up my minivan two days ago nobody's talking nobody's talking about it but the gas pump doubles and housing goes up a bunch then all of a sudden you're gonna see stuff like i saw in the 70s and 80s which was double digit inflation where stuff's going up 10 15 a year and inflation was out of control and the politicians

it took it you know it took some real strong

politicians to do away with it uh it was out of control how do they do away with it well i i credit ronald reagan i'm just putting the brakes on because it was out of control under carter and he comes in and shifted economic policy and uh just started opening up uh doing away with regulation opening up the markets because if you can flood the market with supply it slows down as flows down the feeding frenzy because if you can get it everywhere there's no scarcity sure then the prices start to settle

you know if there's an oversupply prices go down if there's an under supply prices go up because there's people chasing it you know few you know half the number of people chasing it as there are you know you got two houses for sale for every buyer well all of a sudden prices stabilize start to go down start to or at least quit shooting through the roof so

the out of control upward inflation so we're probably going to see some actual inflation out of this which we've not seen in two decades but in 1982 or yeah in

1980s under carter the uh interest rates

on housing was eighteen percent seventeen percent i was in in college so on real estate so guess what happened nobody's buying houses because your interest rate on a house is like a credit card that's insane yeah and so nobody's buying houses they're all on the sideline going i can't buy a house with these interest rates yep and so everybody that would have bought a house that year starts stacking up and you get pent-up demand water behind the dam it's getting really spill over the dam and so when rates came down from 18 to 14.

i was selling real estate at 22 years

old and rates were 14 and there were cars

lined up around the block in the new subdivision it was like just that 4 i mean like yeah but but but it was three four years of nobody buying a house and

the floodgates broke loose 14 was enough to get them out of their house yeah and it was like kovad they lined up around the dadgum block buying these houses and guess what prices went up interest rates continued to go on down yeah of course over the years after that we saw 12 and then we saw 10 and i was on the radio by then and i'm like oh you'll never see single digit interest rates again ever in mortgages well obviously

i was an idiot and didn't know what i was talking about because we've had single digit interest rates and now we've had what we've had for a decade we've had two or three percent i was going to say it's like went down last year yeah you know you watch these interests that's the other thing you watch these interest rates go up with inflation yeah it'll shut this housing market down

i was going to say how yeah the correlation between inflation and the interest if you go from three to six this housing market will freeze like a deer in the headlights it'll just stop people just stop buying they'll just back up and wait and uh that's you're gonna see some of that back and forth now it's going to be a little rocky a little volatile but it won't

this feeding frenzy that you've got right this second is not going to continue yeah but you do not want to be buying a house or selling a house right now without a pro in your corner oh sure this is not this is not amateur hour right here yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah really not amateur just a bizarre this is how you can overpay for something or or

you know not get them you could you could be off a hundred grand on what you could have got with an agent that knew how to manipulate the whole process yeah because it's basically a freaking auction in some of these cities on some of these properties that was one of ours in our neighborhood the builder did an auction he was like highest price and people were like

i mean it was a good it was put them out in the front yard crazy i was like what is happening right now yeah yeah well that but that's that it's i don't know if it's just now yeah but it's an emotional frenzy well that's it too buying a home if you just back up and go right now i'm just gonna chill and watch all these crazy people finish

and when they finish then i'm to walk back in there because you can't get a deal in most markets let's add let's add one

more variable to it all the people leaving california because they're sick of it they're done they're done with crazy land all the people leaving new york because they're done with crazy land and they're they're coming out of there like oh they're right you can't chicago here's another short here's another shortage u-hauls u-haul's leaving california you can't find one you can't find them to rent one you mean you really you can't rent one in new york because they're leaving they're all leaving and they're not coming back

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today as we take your questions about your life and your money kendra is in houston texas hey kendra how are you good how about

yourself better than i deserve what's up

um i have a quick question for you um you and rachel um my husband and i are had just finished baby step 3b um and we're closing on our first home yeah i know very exciting we've worked really following your principles we've worked a really long time so we're very excited good for you um but i have a good question in regards to that so our lender contacted us this morning

saying that we qualified for a property inspection waiver or essentially an appraisal waiver um and where they would still like we don't need an appraiser to come praise her to come out and appraise the thing they would give us the loan is that something we should do or i'm just i just need a little bit of wisdom on that okay uh how much are you putting down

uh we're putting down um 77 000.

okay and what's the price range home it

is 300. okay

i have not run into this is it are you getting a conventional loan we are we're getting the convention alone and we just locked our rate in yesterday okay i think i'm learning something right now i've never heard of them waving an appraisal so it's okay that they are it's just unusual in the past it was unheard of so it may have to do with the hot market

it may have to do with the down payment size so they feel safe because you're putting a big chunk down you know that kind of thing so uh here's the thing the appraisal is an opinion of value how comfortable

are you that you're not dramatically overpaying

i would feel pretty comfortable we didn't go um that we paid basically offered at this price which obviously we've done the comp etc with our um realtor oh you did cops okay okay so you looked at cars they pulled everything and you you com you did comparable analysis using the comparable sales in the area and that that gave you an indication that the price is accurate yes that's correct that's what an appraisal is okay an appraisal a standard residential

appraisal form has three comps on it and they adjust for the differences in square footage and and attributes and uh amenities and so forth and so if you've got a four bedroom versus a three bedroom or a three-car garage versus a two-car garage or whatever they adjust for that and then they adjust 3 500 square feet to 3700 square feet and after the adjusted price that that other house that sold adjusted to look like yours equals x

the other one equals y the other one equals z and the average of those three is is how a residential appraisal is done so you've already done one

yeah i guess i guess we kind of essentially have yeah so the only reason you would need one is if you were unsure about the price and i'm not unsure about it after listening to you okay okay i just didn't want to do anything i mean because i didn't even know that was an option until we get somebody i didn't either i just i i've never heard of yeah

so i'm learning something with you right here but you see my point the only reason you would buy an appraisal is to protect you and you're okay okay okay i just didn't know if like us doing kind of our own and with our realtor if anything would be different it's gonna be it might it might be a tiny bit off but it's not i mean the the

where your realtor pulled the comps from is where the residential appraisal appraiser is gonna pull the comps from so very likely would be the exact same comps or you know if you pull five three of those will be on that form probably okay cool if they're if they're close in geographic proximity and close in date of sale and fairly

close in attributes it's not good to compare a 3 500 square foot house with a 7 000 square foot house okay it's not good to compare one that sold last year at this time last month and it's and within five or ten percent of square footage and five or ten percent of the same attributes you mean you've got a very good comp then right you see what i'm doing right yeah

i do yeah that's how it's done so you're i i think you're very safe okay i'm just i find out i'm very risk adverse when it comes time to purchasing a home

about everything but let me tell you what does away with risk is knowledge okay and that's what you're doing it's what you're doing you're gathering knowledge here and so you're not trusting me i hope i'm trying to get you to say you understand this and you know what

your value is and so you're safe yeah but when you're in i mean it's your first home control so yeah you mean you're one of the largest purchase you'll probably ever make in your lifetime and so you're thinking oh gosh i want to do it right so i get that yeah and and in times past mortgage companies always required an appraisal to protect them to not make a loan that's too big on a house that's not worth what

the loan is or something and they you know in times past that's what the appraisal was always for it was required by them for

them but you got the benefit of the actual safety extra safety coverage but the methodology for the appraisal and the comparative market analysis is identical

and so you know your your real estate agent can do an appraisal that is the same thing your appraiser would do if they're if they're a decent real estate agent ryan is with us ryan's in chicago hey ryan how are you i'm doing well how about you dave better than i deserve what's up hey dave i'm calling in i recently found you on youtube like a lot of callers i've been listening to

you getting a lot of knowledge now trying to put things in practice i recently went through a divorce that was not my choice i'm sorry and as worse yeah thank you for your condolences there um and as everything kind of the dust

settled uh i'm kind of taking

i'm on baby step two i only have one

debt uh i kind of foolish i bought a european luxury vehicle for about fifty thousand i owe about twenty thousand on it and after all of the community assets

have been divided up i ended up with about twenty five thousand in precious metals about a hundred and twenty thousand in cash and some toys boy toys like a

you know motorcycle about fifteen thousand and some other items so i had one outstanding debt for twenty thousand dollars on a vehicle but i kind of feel stuck in stasis uh i'm kind of in a hybrid step i'm i just started investing ten percent with my company matching six percent of uh pre-tax

into the 401k and then uh with the

assets on hand i'm kind of i i've lost some money in cryptocurrency i've lost some money in the stock market we had to sell our home because of the divorce and so now as i'm taking stock at you know a little over 40 years old what do i want to do with the cash on hand it's just fitting and i kind of find myself frozen a little bit not really knowing what to do with

it i don't have a lot of faith in what the stock market is going to do so i thought well hey first time caller short time listener would love to get your advice okay well ryan i'll i'll speak up in part of this so a couple of things i mean you have yeah 125 000 in cash and so that will cover

the car debt that you have so i would do that asap i would take the remaining

probably hundred thousand dollars and figure out how much your expenses are per month and set some of that aside so we always talk about getting a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you would not put this in the market you would put it in a you know a high yield savings account or a money market account that fully funded emergency fund and then from there bump up that 10 percent that you're investing to 15 and and i would say with the medals i

mean commodities are just a tough thing to to have money in so i don't know what you would say dave but i mean i would i would sell those and not have have that around me 25 000 and that's a lot and if you that'd pay off the car that one

even though the the five-year performance of silver and gold has been very favorable

for those who have held it you would still go ahead and sell that in terms of 50-year uh performance of silver and gold absolutely sucks okay the long track

record i mean and so i don't i don't buy stuff i don't buy entire investment classes based on their five-year returns it's a high risk play you can do it if you want to do it but i don't have any money in precious metals i don't even mean bitcoin uh bitcoin's made a bunch of money this year a lot of money but i don't do short term plays

i do long term plays i'm the tortoise and every time i read the book he wins so yeah i'm cashing the medals out paying off the car what rachel said finish your emergency fund just speed fast go fast forward right through those right through those baby steps dude hold on i'll send you a copy of the total money makeover since you're a new listener and it'll show

you the baby steps in detail and if you'll just follow them you'll be a millionaire in no time i'm sorry for your hurt your broken heart's part of this decision-making

paradigm

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rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five carol

is with us in fort wayne indiana hi carol how are you i am fine thank you very much sure what's up my husband and i have been blessed that we are already in step seven yay that the house has paid off

we're in our early 60s and i'm

wondering how do we now relax and enjoy that we're in this position congratulations thank you we are still

nervous to spend money yeah cautious

well you had a lot of years of using that muscle yes and uh so how much money do you have what's the nest egg we have around a million dollars in assets good for you oh in assets okay so how much of that is the house

probably 250 275. okay

so seven eight hundred grand in your retirement or in mutual funds or whatever then right yes okay good for you good for you yeah

this is something carol i feel like we we hear a lot from you know whether it's baby step seven or even baby step four five and six after people have done their emergency fund and gotten out of debt it's like they emotionally haven't caught up to where they are and you guys are you guys retired not yet my husband will retire probably in two three years okay okay yeah so i think that this is it's a very normal place to be in that question and kind of that that uh hesitancy to just enjoy and so

for me i know numbers and facts

help me a lot and so it's not like this idea you're just gonna go crazy and spend whatever you want because you guys are at this point you know you're gonna still have a budget you're still gonna live on it you're going to be able to increase your lifestyle you know percentage points and so you guys can do that run out the numbers and that's when you can get comfortable

when you say okay yeah we can do this like we and when you actually have the numbers in front of you and it's not just this idea in my head in your head that's going to help settle some of that emotion yeah right and you suggest doing that with a financial advisor or running it on our own both probably but but uh you've got to

get them into you have to get the numbers into your heart to relax um and so what i do uh what sharon and i

often do is because you know we're in a financial place that our emotions may never catch up to uh having gone

bankrupt and then having struggled and fought and been frugal for so many years and then you live like no one else then later when it's time to live like no one else then it's hard to relax and do it so the rule we kind of use is the rule we kind of use is whatever the thing is that's we're thinking about doing and we go are we crazy

you know we ask ourselves okay if we take that much money let's just make up a number let's say you were gonna go buy a 20 000 something that feels

luxurious to you it feels like you might be out of control it feels a little crazy okay you know what i'm talking about i mean you're going on a cruise or you're buying a car or you're buying i don't know i don't care what it is a twenty thousand dollar thingy okay then the quite the way the way we visualize it is we say all right let's put twenty thousand dollars cash in the middle of the kitchen table and burn it

did our life change

and in your case the answer would be no

other than you almost threw up when i said it but i mean but you know but mathematically you got a million dollars house and and you know and and mutual funds and retirement and so if you just took 20 000 and just completely

screwed up and it just disappeared it evaporated that's 0.002 percent

it doesn't matter it's like most people buying a biscuit that sounds hard to get in your mind wrapped around i know but but mathematically mathematically and logically what i'm saying is correct isn't it yes it is emotionally it's hard

to accept and that's the difference and so we just have to ask ourselves and and we do this in two areas consumption and generosity

yes because we uh one of our great

motivators is generosity and so you can get out of control with that and have given everything away and be eating you know be on the bread line or whatever you know and so we ask ourselves if we make this gift that feels like it is the law i mean it's more than we made some years you know but now if we make this gift i mean you probably had a year like

i did where you didn't make twenty thousand didn't you you did yeah and so if i give a 20 000 gift you give a 20 000 gift away for us that's more than we made in a whole year back in the day so it's in our emotions

it feels like wow but

you're not even gonna know it's gone because it's 20 000 out of a million

that's true well we keep saying to ourselves we can't take it with us well that's true yeah yeah i mean you know i just read uh my buddy andy anders just did a post he said you know you put you can own hotels and boardwalk or you can rent on baltic but at the end of the story you no matter which one you do the the all

the pieces in the board game goes back in the box so so here's what i want you to i want you to work on generosity and i want you to work on that exercise to say

all right let's buy something let's look at something we've always wanted in quotes dot dot that when i get there someday i'm gonna do dot dot dot i'm gonna travel to that place i'm gonna buy that thing whatever that is okay and i want you to

put that amount of money in the middle of the table and both of you talk about it and process the intellectual understanding that it doesn't matter because it's a small enough percentage of your world that it's like most people buying a biscuit we'll do that so like i've got a friend that i went uh it was just he and i were talking about this same thing a few years ago i went to an event with him and he's a billionaire he has a thousand

million not one million he has a thousand million that's a lot and he had just

bought 125 000 car and it was the first

new car he had ever bought and it's a really nice mercedes 125 000

and he was feeling a little bit guilty like maybe he should have given that money or and he got hate mail somebody sent him hate mail cause he shouldn't as a christian he shouldn't have spent that much money on a car and he's feeling a little bit guilty about that and on the other hand too he was he's like i don't know if this was wise or not he's just like a little kid he's a billionaire where he's coming from yeah

i know but he's a billionaire and buying a hundred thousand dollars i mean when you have a thousand million and you spend a hundred thousand i mean it's like it's like somebody's dropping a dollar bill out their window of the car it doesn't show up mathematically and

and by the way it's none of your business what he drives you get to do your own thing all of you out there you don't get to pass judgment on other people although you think because of social media it's your freaking job but you know so carol i want you to

increase your generosity to the level that it makes you touch this same nerve and i want you to increase your spending on a single luxury item that makes you touch this nerve and that'll cause you to be able to do tooth to relax so we increase our giving we increase our spending but only if we do it wrong or

when the money is just gone it it didn't change our life yeah in that and it's a great exercise to think about it because because again the emotions have not caught up with the math and so you're having to get pushed through it but once you start to do this carol over the next you know year or two you'll get used to doing it yes you're not you're never going to be a rash out of control spender you will you will

not do that you just can't it's not possible for you to do it the number of people that i've seen that think like you think that lose everything because they overspend are zero they're just not people just don't make that trip you will never go over to the land of stupid you just you you you'll be so far away from it that it's just not in the cards for

you so you're safe you're safe you're gonna be okay but what i want you to do is just learn to enjoy some of the money and learn to be generous with some of the money at a level that it really doesn't affect your life but it really increases your enjoyment for all the years of hard work and saving yeah i was going to say you guys have sacrificed you've earned saying carol

have some fun live like no one else and now you get to live and give like no one else and that's the whole thing and there's nothing wrong with that morally spiritually there's nothing wrong with that financially you are great you're amazing

i'm so proud of you this is the ramsey show

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hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to the ramsay show.com thanks for listening [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw

as the status symbol of choice rachel

cruz ramsey personality and best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

and uh big day today rachel is launching a new version of the rachel cruz

wallet a new color a new color

yes it's not a version that's right no but it is is great though uh so yes for a limited time we have a metallic blush

wallet ladies and so in the wallet there

are 10 card slots so debit cards gift cards membership cards all of that is in there and then five or four sewn in

envelopes so if you're using the envelope system it's in there and even you know we talk about the cash how important it is but those of you on baby steps four five and six you know it gets to a point that you've been budging for a while and cash isn't always the the only way to go about it and so i know for me it's always a place just to put receipts or

you have stuff you just stick in it's kind of like when i think of my my bags my favorite organizer my purses the bigger the better because i just throw everything in and so even if you don't use cash this is still a great option so it is here the rachel cruz blush wallet for a limited time you go to ramsey solutions.com um again we have a limited quantity

and then there will be no more and there will be no more of the blush i know it's so pretty though so mother's day if you need a gift for mother's day this is a great a great option but it's it's oh it might be my it's my favorite color for sure yeah real leather made in india by yes join we partnered with join and they're an incredible organization there they make authentic leather goods so this is real leather and they take people

off the streets or in terrible situations and employ them they give them the opportunity to completely change their family trees so while you buy this wallet you're changing your family tree by committing to do something with your money that maybe you've never done before like being on a budget and using cash but also you are helping people change their family trees on the other side of the world completely so join is an incredible an incredible

organization and they make an incredible product like it's you know i mean like it's so really hard i mean it's so good you guys it's so so great so there's that again roomysolutions.com store and it'll put you right there on the metallic blush you have the other two colors we have plenty of the other two colors yes black and camel are the other two original wallets that came out yes so they will be there but again limited edition for mother's day the metallic rose gold kate is in kansas

city to start off this hour hey kate what's up hi thank you guys so much for taking my call my mother-in-law is 60 and i'm trying to

help her with her finances she has 36 000 in retirement and if she was to

start your baby step she'd be on baby step 2 and she has 20 000 in

student loan debt so with her budget she only has like a 500 she could put towards the debt which means it's gonna take her over three years to pay off the debt and then additional six months to get the emergency fund in place so she would only be around age 64 to start

actually putting money into retirement and she

says she wants to retire by like 66. so um

because of all that she doesn't really want to put anything towards debt right now and just invest in retirement and i

know you never change the order of your baby steps so i know that's what i would want or i want to recommend um and i have but she just doesn't see it that way and so i'm hoping you can help me like word it in a way that it shows that that's the best way and then also just your thoughts on her retiring at 66 i don't know if that's the best thing to do with her financial situation

this is a hard one because emotionally where she's at though is she's freaking out because she thinks i have 36 thousand dollars in retirement and that's it and i want to retire at 66 and all my money is going to go to my retirement i mean that's your knee-jerk reaction but what you have to realize and what she needs to realize is even having a twenty thousand dollar student loan debt um is risk not having other cash in the

bank for an emergency fund is risk as well and so getting to a point where she can clean up all of that she's able to clean up the debt and have

that cash set aside it's going to put her in such a better place but the urgency is going to have to kick in because money flows two ways i mean money flows in money flows out and like you said flowing out she's got about 500 in the budget if you've done a really tight budget and then you're going to she's gonna have to figure out what to do between now and then to bring in some extra income to get the student loan paid off even faster what does she make uh she makes about

three thousand months doing what uh she makes dentures

so she works 40 hours yeah

okay um she's not gonna like this either

but she needs another job yeah and

another job and another job like six jobs because

let me tell you what she has right now a fantasy none of this is going to happen with what you just described if she gets rid of this debt before retirement on the budget you're talking about i'll be shocked yeah and because she's not serious about it because she doesn't have any hope because she can't see the numbers getting there and um you know with five hundred dollars a month is six thousand dollars a year that's eighteen thousand dollars in three years that is not going to make her be able to retire

it's a fantasy so she needs some income

yeah um and uh so is she was

your father-in-law was it a divorce that he passed away a divorce how long ago oh

20 years and she's still mad married

she was remarried again and then she

that didn't work out and they got divorced a couple years ago and she actually they declared bankruptcy from that so that wiped out any debt she had before that except the student loan because student loans aren't bankruptable well that this was actually a new loan for additional schooling for dental work um 20 000 to make 36

yeah wow okay

um well her problem is that that

in order for any of these things to occur she's going to have to increase her income so she's going to be working a lot of hours she can actually end up with 100 to 200

000 in her nest egg and be debt free by 66 or 67 but not on 40 hours a week making 36 000. okay we have to she's going to add some hours to her life i know she's tired i know she doesn't want to do it but i don't want to retire and have to eat alpo either so uh

i don't know what the extra job is that makes her a bunch of money making and working another 40 hours a week for the next two years but that'll solve a lot of these problems because she can create another three thousand dollars a month bad news is her income sucks good news is it's easy to double

is she receptive kate did she listen to you um i mean she was willing to meet with me um so uh that was positive what about her son is she willing to meet with him um i think so yeah i think he needs to

step on mom and say mom you're gonna have to up the game here baby uh because if she's not listening to you she needs to listen to somebody because you know it's not a it's not a baby steps out of order problem it's an income problem that's the math breakdown

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show where we talk about your life your money and your life it's a free call at triple eight eight two five five two two five here at ramsey solutions we wanna transform so many lives

that the toxic culture is disrupted

imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan where people pay cash for their cars

where they know how to operate in their marriage and raise their kids

imagine a world where they know how to get the job that they love and hire the people that they want on their team and be high quality world-class leaders

imagine being part of an organization that caused that level of disruption to our toxic culture that's the work we do here and that's why we have a thousand folks on our team working together we create digital products we create services we create shows

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if you're a ux designer seo content marketing specialist we'd love to talk to you we're hiring about 300 people this year and also sales positions also positions of all kinds hr positions we've got tons of them if you want to find out more about what's happening at ramsey and the available jobs text work that matters to 33789 text

work that matters to 33

7 89 and you can find out

about all of the open opportunities that are here carter is with us in billings montana hi carter welcome to the ramsay show hello how are you better than i deserve what's up i got a funny question so we probably have too much money wrapped up in their cars but they're paid off um and we have very little debt maybe

oh 24 000 in the camper and

and that's about it um and then we have

a mortgage you know no second no nothing and we own some real estate on the side free and clear just raw land uh i feel

kind of silly having this much money wrapped up in cars how much do you have wrapped up in cars well probably between two of them i could sell them for probably 95 000 come away with 95 000 in cash what's your household income 200

okay it's not it's not completely out of

line it does i can understand how it feels silly but the rule of thumb we use is that you shouldn't own things with car with with motors and wheels or wheels or motors that totaled up

equals more than half your annual income camper camper puts you over yes it does

and so and it has debt so the thing i would sell the thing i would sell is the camper

okay what do you think carter yeah it's not you don't like that i'm just thinking let's take it two years from now and the cars depreciate then it drops below our oh you know the the annual income i'm just i felt kind of silly that we paid cash for that stuff and you know we could have put it towards i don't know what else we put it towards

but i wouldn't have bought it if i didn't pay cash for it right so i don't feel silly if you're paying cash for it i feel silly for buying it maybe yeah but um i mean you're right up at the top you did but you got a lot tied up and things going the wrong direction yeah but you got a great income and you can offset that

but you do need to it sounds like you've been sloppy and you need to tighten up your decision making and tighten up your plan right correct that's all it is i mean you don't have anything here that's devastating you're not going bankrupt you're not you know you're not way over in the stupid zone where i got to go what you know but um it's not that but it's just it's close

you know and that's why that's why you're feeling the pinch i mean because the bottom line is when you've got more than half your annual income tied up and things that are going down in value it's hard to become wealthy sure it's a it's a simple principle and that's that's what it comes down to so how long have you made 200 um several years decade okay

what are the cars uh it's uh

one ton ram pickup to uh 2019 and then a

toyota highlander okay 2016. yeah

okay yeah i would say car i mean the cars aren't the problem at this point i mean like you said they're pretty they're paid for all of it and so i get how it feels kind of and i'm pretty sure we can pay the camper off pretty damn darn excuse me darn easy this year yeah yeah knock it out knock the camper out if you want to hold on that's fine

but and then just draw a line in the sand and go we're not going to be back up here again right and so what happened was the i can tell you which car was purchased last obviously based on the year but also based on just the how the story's going down you bought this big but expensive truck over the top killer massively wonderful

truck and you just completely boy impulsed on it and you're feeling regret well it's middle of the line and my old truck was 22 years old and it's been paid off forever so yeah you could say that yeah and so i

mean you could have you you're wishing you had bought a truck about between the two

correct and not over the top that's you got that taste of regret on the back of your tongue and that's all it is and i i've i've had that taste that's how i know what it tastes like so um i get it i understand so just the thing is uh

do a little uh autopsy on the whole situation and go okay what do i never want to do again as a result of this story spend that much money well what did i do wrong that i wished i hadn't done okay and um so

you know that that's what i ask myself when i do you know i've done a lot of stupid stuff my goal is to not do the same stupid thing because i figure out what it is and just put that okay i got that one behind me i don't have to do that one again because i've already done that one there will be another one but i don't have to do that one

and if you if you have a big enough pile of stupid things that you never do again people call you wise like you know how to

navigate this you know your way through this it's cause i know what stupid looks like and lots of it but the problem is when you do the same thing over and over and over again right and you just keep going back to the same dumb thing and then that's the definition of insanity uh doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results so i i don't

i think the emotion of this is what's more important than the actual math yeah i mean if you tighten up the budget you pay off the camper all of it you're going to look up in 12 months carter and probably feel a completely different set of emotions right now than that little feeling you're feeling yeah and truthfully if you say okay these two parts of the decision were

the bad parts i will never do those two things again it's easier to put all of this behind you and move on and just leave the trucks and the cars in place and get you know get on with it don't right just don't do that again you know that kind of thing yeah because you you you didn't go over well you did with the camper you did

you did go over but um you know so you but there's nothing here that's requiring it to all be undone

it doesn't do any good could sell the camper though still could uh walter's with us in vermont hey walter what's up thank you so much for taking my call my wife and i have an opportunity to refinance our mortgage our mortgage company has because the interest rates have gone down uh significantly since we originally got the mortgage just a couple of years ago when we bought the house they've actually given us what's your current right current rate is 3.375 what are they offering you drop it down to 2.875

it's not a huge drop um it would save us

37 dollars per month the only thing is they cannot they kick in what's your loan balance

loan balance is 154 000.

okay you're gonna save a half a percent a year on a hundred and fifty four thousand you'll save 750 a year what's the closing cost uh no closing

costs because they're gonna they're gonna nothing out of pocket at all nothing out of pocket at all the only thing they do though because it's an fha loan oh it's a streamline they're talking about 900 onto the loan amount for insurance okay but nothing out of pocket per year no no

well it would take 254 and add on 900

to it no are you adding 900 per year

or one time no just one time well then it takes you a little over a year to break even because you're saving 750 750 a year on a half a percent

savings and takes you a little over a year to break even if you're gonna stay in the house three or four years it's gonna make a little bit of sense this is not a life-changing thing it's 750 a year it's probably not worth screwing

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five suzanne is with us in

utica new york hi suzanne how are you

oh i'm okay i have a problem with

i sold some stocks and

my advisor had told me that they would

not be taxed or counted as income and when i did a

my income tax online which i didn't push the button yet to send it but um i it's showing that now i owe the federal over a thousand and the state over a thousand

and i just wondered what what did i do wrong besides this and listen to maybe some bad advice maybe or maybe the online software sucks

okay that's possible you may be getting a wrong result from the online software what are you using turbotax

no it was the irs oh god

okay yeah that's bad all right so

uh what did you sell how much did you sell um yeah i sold

forty thirty five thousand dollars

worth okay and d do you know what your basis was in that does that mean how much i

paid how much you paid for that stock that sold for thirty five yeah but the um the agency that holds my

stuff doesn't have that information they don't

no why what happened well let's see

when i got to stock it was purchased through an employer and i can't remember if if i purchased it

through payroll and they matched some i think that's the way it went and then

when i met this advisor

we put the stocks into a company

that she was advising me to do and

you put you you did you sell the stocks for the old stocks i got certificates i got certificates and then you move this how did you move certificates into something else i don't remember okay um i mean i've got

all the paperwork so how did you what did you put in this attack software that calculated that you owed a thousand you'd have to have your basis to do the calculation nope how much i sold no you

you sold it for 35 000 what you paid for

it the difference in what the difference in what you paid for it and what you sold it for is your gain and that's what you're taxed on okay so

they cast me on the 35 000 because i didn't have a cost basis yeah i'll see that's not right you do you do have a cost basis of some kind and it should not be okay your tax would be more than a thousand dollars on 35 000

okay okay so you have a mess so and i can't i can't untangle this barrel of fish hooks on the radio but what i'm going to do is this how old are you i have some homework i'm 67

67 okay yeah and it's just you

yes you're widowed or what i'm widowed

okay we're going to take care of you we take care of widows so i'm going to pay for out one of our people that we recommend for tax advice a tax professional

in the new york area to take care of you free thank you because the irs software sucks and you have a messed up lack of information and you're getting ready to get yourself into a mess that you don't need to get into you probably don't owe a lot of taxes but you've got to have to have some help scratching through and getting your proper information together to prove that

and we'll help you do that i'll get you with one of our tax elps one of the tax professionals that we recommend they will take care of you as a gift from us kelly will take care of that i'm gonna put you on hold and she's gonna pick up and do that so rachel usually when you

sell stock the if you had a broker

you know that you bought it through that company has the records sure of what you paid for it your basis and the difference in what you pay for it and what you sell it for is taxable and if it's been held longer than a year it's taxable 15 unless you make over 400 thousand dollars so uh in her case she'll be taxed at 15 on the gain

and so she if she if they're showing her gain is 35 000 the thousand dollars in taxes is not right it's a lot more than that right right yeah uh but uh so we've got to get the actual basis figured out and you may have to go back to the former employer or you may have to file some kind of estimated that's what it's going to say how do

you even well there's a the irs has a has a process for filing an estimated basis when you you know i mean it has to be based on logic you can't just make it up i mean right you have to make a series of assumptions and they'll they'll a tax advisor can walk you through that so um and but somebody should have a basis somewhere on that

and and poor suzanne sitting there dealing with the irs.gov oh my goodness i will tell you this there there's if you have a simple return online is fine and we have a we have a product called smart tax that's like 17 and if you you know if you're just doing your 1040 easy and you want to file online it's really easy to run it on smart tax

and you can get that at ramseysolutions.com in the store um or if you have a complicated return or a situation where you need some help like that you need a professional in your corner we have the elps in each area that we recommend that are tax professionals that do tax preparing and they cost more than 17 but you're going to save a lot more because you you know you've got a small business or you've got a transaction like that or something else going on

and you can get all of that at ramsey solutions yeah anytime there's those complicated or more intimidating parts of

money it's always good to bring a professional in so whether it's real estate taxes investing i mean anything that just feels like it's a little overwhelming it's a little complicated you may not even be able to if you can't explain it to someone else that means you have to you need to learn and you need to to grow in knowledge and part of that sitting down with a professional

and letting them help you i mean these people i can't believe it but breathe in and out this information day and day they love it i mean you know these tax professionals this is what they do and they see every every every situation they've had probably suzanne's um circumstance before in their office i don't know what to do you want to bring them on because yeah like

you said it's going to save so much time and money jonathan is in raleigh north carolina hey jonathan what's up hey dave thanks for taking my call better than hey good how can we help i was going to answer better than i deserved but what do i know i just was wandering along lost here how can i help

so i developed a product that's industry specific and i was wondering if you could give me some advice on when to actually file a patent like is there a number of units that i need to sell or like a dollar amount before i file my patent to i guess prove it in the market or take it to market to be mass producer licensed or whatever you can patent a prototype um

the patent space is full of a bunch of shysters and so you don't need to pay somebody

big dollars i mean there's things i've heard people pay 250 000 to get a patent attorney and all this and you do not need to do that uh my understanding is and i've had lots of clients that have done this have patented a prototype for usually costs around 10 grand but you've got to work your way through the process and you have to have the is it a product a hard product yes sir and so i i have a friend who

also has a bunch of trademarks and patents and he introduced me to his patent attorney she did a patent search through a legit firm and came back that

there's no other product like this what did she charge you for that a thousand dollars that's good what will she charge you to run the patent uh 2500 500 of which is for the

draftsmanship that's that's that's a reasonable deal yeah maximum of 10 grand out of pocket but i've heard lots there's all these things on the internet where they'll help you market the product and help you get the patent and all this stuff and and they don't do anything what is it jonathan i'm just curious it's a um for lack of a better term it's

a it's a tool pouch it helps us carry tools i'm alive and by trade and it

yeah yeah i would spend the money with her to do it it'd be that simple i do we've got bunches and bunches of trademarks we don't have any patents uh but we've trademarked everything around here like crazy so i spent a lot of money on that got a lot of knowledge on copyrights and trademarks because that's the publishing world and the uh you know these all of

these images and things that we own here are part of it that and urls uh my god but the uh um yeah so i i think if you can keep it down under ten thousand dollars and you have the cash to do it and you get it patented you can do it with a prototype that's all you gotta do and i would do that sooner rather than later

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our scripture of the day james 1 17 every good and perfect gift is from above

coming down from the father of the heavenly lights who does not change like shifting shadows william james says most people never run far enough on their first win to find out if they've got a second oh

anna's with us in phoenix hey anna what's up hi how are you better than i deserve how can we help hi um so i started listening to you

in july um i was 37 000

in debt um my fiance

he was around 120 130 to the irs

a thousand dollars and um so

i got to the point where now i'm at 19

and we didn't separate but he moved down to new mexico to try to figure out he did an

application of oic yeah to try to see

if they could help them out um most of it is really interesting and i just wanted to know like are we doing like the right thing i mean i make around 35

to 40 000 a year so what does he make he he was making 80

000 because he works in the oil field but it went down so now was he 10.99 and he just didn't pay taxes yeah oh my god has he quit doing that

well he now he found a job where they take out taxes so he's trying to find a second

job what does he make now at the new job no he's trying to find oh he's making 40 to 50.

so he got his pay cut in half but the oil field dried up or what yeah it's drying up yeah okay

all right move down there how much did he pay for this oic well he has a friend um that she used to work for the irs so she's kind of guiding him of what she recommends for him to do

we're just waiting on a response and he's gonna start like i said he's he's been saving up money to be you know start paying off but he has a lien on his name for the new mexico state so he's trying to pay that off first and then see what the irs says okay well i i i'm not going to give you

much hope on the on the oic okay yeah and

offer and compromise is what that stands for and that is when the irs observes that you have no assets and no income so they're never getting their money you basically have to prove that you are completely broke and don't have an income and that's not the case here he has an income and uh so i don't have a lot of hope that they're going to just forgive this or large chunks of it and even if they do they're going to want to lump sum and so if they instead of 95 000 or 120

000 if they come in and say oh we'll settle for 20 000. they're gonna want their 20 000 right then and he don't have any money well he's not a one now he they have them at 140 000 yeah but if they settle if they did an offering compromise and settled for twenty thousand dollars they're going with their twenty thousand dollars right then it's not a payment plan yeah so i'm yeah

i don't i don't want to be a a debbie downer here but the truth is very few oics get through

i've probably watched a hundred of them try and i might have seen 10 go through

okay over the years it's just the the burden that they put on you to prove that you have no money also means that you have no money to settle with them when they do finally take it so it's a it's a two-edged sword in a sense it gets you coming and going so irs debt moves to the front of everything yeah yeah and so i i think uh

what i if i were him you know i'm going to work the oic through but i'm not going to work it through for two years while it continues to double and triple with these with these uh penalties going up and these interest rates going up you follow me yeah so uh i mean give this thing 90 120

days maybe six months uh and in the meantime be working like a crazy person and piling up cash i want a big old pile of cash i want him working 100 hours a week and i want a big old pile of cash like 40 50 000 bucks piled up

yeah that's yeah you didn't sound real enthusiastic that's your only shot kiddo

yeah i know well that's why he he ended up living out there he moved out there so he could figure out that situation why i fixed my situation i don't know why you can figure out something in new mexico you can't figure out in arizona i know well he's trying to get his cbl now um he's finding ways where you don't have to go to class and pay that whole amount and you know try to get out to get a job down here but okay let me tell you what i'm hearing how old are you i'm 29.

okay i'm going to be your uncle dave for a minute don't you dare pay a dime of this until you're married this is his problem this young man needs to solve this freaking problem yeah that's why i told him like i'm not going to get married he doesn't want to get married yet because of his situation but that's why like it was better for me to pay off my situation

i was you need to get your mess cleaned up and you can be his biggest cheerleader but he needs to go he needs to he needs to roll up his sleeves go make a whole bunch of money do nothing but work like a crazy man and have a big old pile of money when this thing blows up and the oic doesn't go through he can get started on

it because if he throws 50 grand at it right quick because he's worked 100 hours a week um then he's got a good start on it it's the only way it's going away because the irs just does not go away it's just uh they're not bankruptible they're just going to be there and it's not going to get anything but worse so the sooner he you know reverses

the trend on this the better off he's going to be and i just hear you caring about this and being more logical about it than he is that always kind of concerns me sometimes when anna you're the one calling and he's not so um and again maybe it's situational and it's today you were able to pick up the phone call but i want him to be

more involved than you are in his mess if that makes sense yeah that's exactly right trying to be nice on i feel for you you're you're really good i feel for you but but be aware like you need you're you're set up here for a problem kiddo be careful jessica's in las vegas hi jessica welcome to the ramsay show hi hi hello i'm

super excited i wanted to call as soon as we get off our debt we paid off our debt our 27 thousand

dollars in three months thank you so much you guys i'm so happy

um such a late you know we're listening

you know shoulders however you sound so nervous i'm sorry um my question is we are now on step

three officially and um

you know it's saving three to six months and i was wondering if do we still

have to you know go get gazelle intensity or can we now sort of um

okay so relax yeah yeah you're gonna ask

yeah can we just relax and since now we're on baby step three i wasn't telling you jessica um no the gazelle intensity continues until baby step three is done so the same intensity you guys used to pay off all that debt i think you said three months jessica which is incredible so congratulations keep that intensity until that baby step three is paid off yeah i'm sorry saves that cash here's the problem jessica the you you when you don't have

i i've noticed this my whole life when i'm broke is like when i attract emergencies

like emergencies just come find me and

when i'm not broke they stay away they go to other people's house and so having the emergency fund is like

emergency repellent it keeps the mosquitoes away it keeps the emergencies from coming in and if they do come in you got the money for them and so it is vitally important that you become debt-free other than the house with great intensity and that you finish the emergency fund with great intensity but you're gonna do it very fast because compared to where you were five months ago with twenty seven thousand dollars in debt and no money once you have twelve thousand dollars in your emergency fund and no debt your life has completely changed and you have done it congratulations it's amazing but yeah you do need to continue to lean in sounds like you all been very intense and i congratulate you for that and it won't take that much more a little bit more i mean if you think about if you did 27 that fast how fast can you do 12.

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to

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## 190. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 22, 2021)


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this is the ramsey show you can be intentional

about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice dr john deloney ramsey personality and host of the vastly popular dr john dolone podcast is my co-host today we'll be taking your calls and your questions about your life

because he's here and he can help you with your life and i've always got an opinion about it because i'm an expert on my opinion and we'll talk about your money too if you want the phone number is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five joe's gonna start off

this hour in boston hey joe what's up

hey james how are you better than i deserve how can i help so i'm uh 22 years old and graduating

college in a couple weeks um i'll be getting married in the fall my fiance will also be graduating uh we're really excited for that both of us congratulations it's awesome man thank you thank you

so excited um we're both debt-free i'm

going to be making about 45 000 after graduation she's probably

going to be in a similar ballpark maybe a little less but not that much we currently have about 20 25

000 in saving which a good chunk

actually comes from the unemployment assistance and we're just you know a little concerned about that you know with some of the new legislation going forward as you know if we might have to pay it back so we're we're trying to figure out the the best way to just make smart decisions with you know an apartment or probably not buying a house but

you know a living situation and just uh how to be you know financially responsible to live well going forward way to go what's your degree in what's her degree in minds in theology first in psychology and elementary education okay so are you going to become a pastor or what are you going to do i'm going to be a youth minister at a catholic church nearby in the area wonderful good for

you okay cool thank you very fun all right well uh you know it sounds like you got a lot on your plate uh it's gonna be an exciting 12 months agreed yeah yeah absolutely we're very excited so why boston i just grew up here um you know big big red sox fan big awesome sports fan and you know we're both from the area and love it you know playing playing to stay uh around around here okay well buying a home is a

good thing as a part of the scope of your life uh it's a complicated thing it's a big decision uh there's a lot of moving parts to it uh obviously it requires money it's one of the largest purchases you'll ever make in most cases and uh so i recommend something that's highly uncomfortable because everybody's running around going get a house get a house get a house get a house because all renters go to hell get a house get a house get a house get a house right you know it's like like renting is evil or something you know what i'm saying and i don't want you to be a renter when you're 32 you're 22.

to add a house purchase to the busiest year of your life ever

you're graduating getting new jobs getting married i mean my god the last thing you want to do is hang curtain rods yeah okay i mean really it causes divorces but um yeah so i i we always joke and say you'll make a the serious thing is you'll make a better decision one year after marriage about which house to purchase because you'll know each other better you've got all of this busyness and craziness in your rearview mirror and it'll be a calm steady wise decision

you're out of debt you have your emergency fund you have a good down payment that's a good decision i got to get a house because i'm getting married is about the way you make a stupid mistake and by the way it takes about a year of being married to know how close to your mother-in-law to by i was gonna say two or three years but one's a minimum

and maybe yeah i'd get the smallest the smallest place y'all can afford to live in like you're not trying to prove anything to anybody you're getting to know each other that was a mistake i made coming out of colleges i rented this big freaking nice place that was like three times more expensive than i should just because i could afford it and it was all rented money

it says wasted money right and i stayed there six months and then we moved in the stinky butt little apartment started saving money and we had bugs in our first apartment man it was i want you to do that i'm not saying it was great i'm just saying we should sign up for buzz we survived we lived well yeah but we're not yeah and we learned to have some conversations that

we wouldn't have had yeah it's okay to go small and clean nobody yeah yeah no rats you don't need any pets in there just you too just spend the year spend the year enjoying your first year of marriage and your first year of starting off at adult life with all these jobs and graduations and all this stuff and you know and you will make a much better decision a year later

and you be out of debt have your emergency fund and have your down payment and but everybody's going to put pressure on you because everybody's a freaking genius you're 22 you're gonna die if you don't buy a house horse crap you're not gonna die i've never considered um hitting you up

dave to create a dave ramsey t-shirt but a t-shirt that said all runners go to hell would sell really well that's a fantastic but isn't it the way people talk about it oh they talk about it as if it's a salvation issue the number of people when we just got an apartment i didn't i didn't know what we were doing with our livestreams they sound like a beagle chasing a rabbit oh you're just gonna

if you want you could i'll just go flush your money for you i mean i it was over and over and over yeah and they're all they're all broke but they all got expert advice on me buying a house yes that's right you know it's just they're just and they

do they they drive p you people you broke people don't need to be giving financial advice it makes you look dumb and god help you somebody will follow it and just set a young couple up to be stable and you said it best the last thing a young couple needs taking two new jobs in a new town and a new marriage is to also be worrying about can

we make this rent payment or this this mortgage payment this month or what's our house worth or the plumbing broke or whatever happens with new houses which it always happens you know in in ancient times the second kings in the bible even when a young couple got married it's very clear that the brand new husband did not go out to war in the first year he stayed home to make a home with his wife

they didn't put brand new married soldiers on the front lines in ancient israel you need to get because he knows if he goes out there and you know it's not going to make good decisions he's not going to make good decisions yeah and it's very interesting there's something about that first year of marriage i mean you probably know some research on the statistics of you know what

you invest in each other in the first year of marriage sets a pattern for the rest of your life that's the key is these patterns that you adopt really quick and it can take years to unwind and they happen overnight right yeah you're both bringing you're both bringing your old patterns into this one pattern and you set it real fast it takes a while to undo those things

you say or those things you do or those annoying man you've got to really unlearn all that spend your time getting to know each other here's the other thing when you say when you do give somebody good advice they remember it i remember sharing i've been married almost 40 years we got married and we moved into this too expensive a house and it was three it was four bedrooms

there was two of us two dogs it was ridiculous but it was nice yeah you know and we thought we were we thought we were you know pretty cool and i went back i stopped by and saw my old uh elementary school principal evelyn

hyde and she's like where are you living i told her and i was like all proud and she's like that's dumb [Laughter]

she's a she was the best that's the best the world needs more evelyn's yes they do to look at genius 22 year olds and say that's dumb that was dumb this is the ramsay show

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life is full of firsts

as the first and longest serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verses

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today austin is with us in fort myers florida hey austin how are you pretty great how about you better than i deserve sir how can we help so i'm i've been i recently just got married about a year ago congratulations me and my wife are trying to purchase a house um so i'm just trying to get some good advice um as well okay what's your question she also has

she also has some student loan debt and we're trying to figure out if this is a good time to buy a home or pay off your student loans pay off the student loan okay so you have the money to pay off the student loan um i have i have money saved before i got married to her and she and it's i mean i know when we got married it's all it's all equal as one but it's great that i had saved before we got married correct but now it's hers

okay it's not it's not i have money it's we have money now you're now we when you get married you're french we we jones okay so here's the thing unto the the old the old-fashioned marriage vows in the book of common prayer say in sickness and health for richer

for poorer unto thee all my worldly

goods i pledge you don't hear that in wedding vows much anymore uh it's kind of anti-prenuptial it's quite the opposite it's uh if we're going to share life we are going to share the money and the problems and the good things because you're gonna end up sharing them all anyway you might as well just admit it so this is a good time to admit it and it's a good exercise for her to accept that her student loans are paid off that

she got before marriage with money that you got before marriage and that's a very real sign in your relationship spiritually and financially that you have combined your households and then you start then you build your emergency fund and then you save up for a good down payment yeah don't go into a house without an emergency fund man because 100 chance something's going to break when you buy

it and you don't want to walk into that house with student loan debt and suddenly you're swimming upstream trying to fix stuff and make that mortgage payment let that house be a blessing man and there's something that snaps

in the psyche dr john that you know when

you force yourself to do an action that reveals that there's a new

reality yes i i it's this uh

it's a winnowing right it's this it's it's a test moment to where you can talk about all day long i know this is gonna be ours that can be ours you can hear that here i know this is ours but but i saved it right yeah okay well cool pay it off right yeah and it's it's like it's this shaky hand signing it off when i really do

it now is when it's a real thing yeah and i don't want to hate on anybody i get no no he's in heart he wasn't doing anything wrong that's a normal process whether you've been married a year whether you've been married 10 years there's people married 10 years still talking like that oh most 30 years 40 years with separate checking accounts you take care of these bills i'll take care of

these bills like roommates even that's exactly what they are the roommates they've never fully come together on this deal but when you anything where you're changing your life you're changing a behavior pattern and then you have to actually do the action yes not just discuss the theory of the action there's something that snaps in the old psyche you have to step into it it calls your bluff

and it begins to change you physically and neurologically changes you from the inside out and all of that austin in your situation is means that your marriage is already awesome and it's about to get a little better yes that's what we're saying and it's gonna be real uncomfortable for a minute right before it gets better there you go yeah as you write that check you make sure your hand may shake a little bit

and then six months later you're gonna be going yeah but this is the woman debt-free this is the woman i love that's beautiful daniel's in new york city hey daniel how are you daniel hello hi daniel hey dave and john

what's going on how are you better than we deserve sir how can we help uh thank god um so i've been a listener for a couple years already you know i listen daily really keeps you motivated and moving in the right direction thank you but um but yeah of course so i

set myself up i think i'm in a good spot i have some money saved up in the past couple years of working and i wanted to know how what i can do to really be setting myself up for success okay are you working you're in college how old are you what's your story i'm in college i have about a year left okay what are you studying business management good for you okay what's it gonna cost to finish

um no i have a college fund that's taking care of that and i have some scholarships as well so great what's it gonna cost to finish not sure exactly probably another

two semesters so you don't know what a semester costs maybe like another 25 to 50 000 here's

25 each method what the crap are you going to school yeah on mars

where are you going to school in the city is it a secret it's a secret is it a secret school what's the name of your school what

say it again it's not such a large

school so i'd rather not stay okay all right it's a very small very expensive school in new york city it's a spy school day yes okay well it's a secret school all right so the um all right so uh you think you have enough money in the college fund and in scholarships to finish how much money do you have saved that you're worried about investing uh like 250. 250

000 yeah spy school's paying pretty good

this is pretty neat i'm way in the wrong job i should have been what in the world are you doing where did you get 250 000

i mean i've been working since like all throughout high school since i'm like 14. i worked really hard in high school and i had like 250 dollars exactly 11. where did you what did you do i just i never is it a secret what you did you were a spy in high school weren't you and now you're in spy school and now you're rich dude i was so

impressed we're picking on you these numbers are bizarre way to go well here's the thing the standard answer here is this and i'll stick with the standard answer although these numbers are not standard um congratulations you're obviously a young stud oh kidding aside awesome you're you got scholarships you've made a lot of money already i never saw 250 i could lord that's amazing good for you so proud for you so your first goal is graduate you

are the secret sauce to success graduate with no debt you think you've got that figured out you probably do have that figured out you probably have enough money in your account with your scholarships and your college fund to do that i really don't care if you invest 150 000 for the next one year that is not going to change your life going finishing this school with zero debt

and launching yourself with zero debt into the marketplace is going to change your life and understanding that you are the secret sauce here not the interest on 250 000 for one year

dave would you recommend a 23 year old with that kind of money to launching and buy a house or would you even recommend this high school to chill yeah get out of school because when you graduate from school you have a high rate of uh transition correct

you don't you often change cities you obviously start a new job a real job and the chances of changing you know he probably ought to keep doing what he's doing but um the uh uh and it's not unusual get

married right in that in within 18 months of that right so statistically not everybody you don't have to it's not like a rule you're not doing something wrong if you don't there's some there's some research that says men especially do everything all at once right that one year following school and that takes some money and you probably are going to end up in the same city you're in a high statistical average you're going to end up in her city [Laughter] or is

there any data on you take a job right out of college what's the chances you're still in that job five years later yeah very low okay that's what i would think these days in the old days it was but these days you the average person has 17 jobs in their working lifetime okay so you got the turnover but dude you're you've done so well daniel you're going to be all right

i think you're going to struggle through with your quarter million dollars yeah you're going to figure it out and if y'all need any extra spies daniel you know a guy you you always wanted to be a spot i always wanted to be a spy when it pays like that i'm telling you bond in high school man i had no idea james bond was so loaded he drank well

but man i didn't know it was a good high school he's had a good car but we thought it was a government car i made i thought i was killing it making 20 bucks a lawn in high school daniel just embarrassed me man well he said 250 i didn't know what he meant that's quite a goal danny for you daniel we're we're we're having some fun buddy

but my only because i'm jealous yeah exactly and we're just freaked out but yeah you did really good man so graduate graduate graduate graduate graduate debt free then become an investor then start your life don't get in too big a hurry you're not missing out on compound interest by being out of the market for one year making sure you graduate graduate graduate debt-free you are the secret sauce

you are the best investment you can make this is the ramsey show

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hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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dr john dolone ramsey personalities my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage baby mike and laci are here hey guys how are you good how are you good how are you dave good how do we where do you all live uh we live in northern new york all right very cool welcome all the way to nashville to do a debt-free scream you can see uh canada from our backyard ah literally that's how fun

we are well at least it's not russia all right so you're not a palin are you but go ahead so uh how much debt have you paid off

a hundred and four thousand all right how long did this take one day more than two years we had to wait for payday i'll take it i'm going to round that down to two years and your range of income during that time uh we started out at 90 000 and we went up to 172 000

and then we went down to 173 because of the pandemic oh yeah good gracious you doubled your income so what kind of day uh what kind of debt was this uh we had five of the zero percent promotions because we thought we were really smart you showed them right yeah we had my car

we had a camper and then we each had student loans how y'all were like normal yeah we were paying on a deck for a house that we didn't even live in anymore oh that hurts yeah i was like it has to go i don't think it really helps and then they get real mad if you go sit on it after you don't live there anymore they don't like

if you park your camper that you're paying on in the driveway right yeah in the winter time oh no that hurts looking out at it with snow on top what do you guys do for a living uh i'm a certified professional boudoir photographer okay and i'm a director of case management i'm a nurse oh very cool good for you guys so how did you double your incomes uh

i cranked up the work i just took on more work and invested in my education and just kind of took off wow what about you um well i've kind of scaled the entire time in my career so you got the opportunity to take on overtime like crazy right yeah oh yeah especially especially in 2020 yeah actually during the pandemic my business was shut down and he had to take a 20 pay cut

because the hospital wasn't you know having all the elective surgeries and whatnot so yeah plus i'm salary so there's no such thing as overtime for sale oh i'm sorry oh my gosh okay wow all right so what started this journey two years ago i got you guys so fired up uh well i actually had heard about you from um an educator that i followed and i saw your your book in

the thrift store and i was like why not you know i've spent it's a dollar yeah it's a dollar it was two but that's okay the cover was flashy it caught our eye wow good looking gown people i think dave ramsey they think flashy yeah that's what that's what comes to mind exactly i think um

we've we've kind of had this concept in our head the entire time that we've been together but we we call it we did like dave ramsey light yeah we didn't really know where we were going or what we were doing but we knew that um not being in debt was kind of where we needed to be so although we've over time we've had cards and things like that

we never carried a balance we knew at different times that when we had debt we had to pay it down so we've tried over the years we just never had a clear path how long you all been married so uh 17 years what so what actually in your brain what do you think was there an event or a certain thing that happened that caused you to just flip

the switch and go i'm all in let's do this um yeah no it just was like we i picked

the book up and i was like okay this sounds like a good idea you know like he had said we uh you know we had the idea in our head and we just didn't know where we were going so once i read the book i was like oh yeah this is we just made a couple little tweaks and like that's what we needed she read it then

i read it and we were sold and we were like let's do this so just the total money makeover and game on yeah wow and then i listen to your podcast every day we were believers anyways prior to that we just needed that path we needed those stories we needed that guidance to be able to be on the right you know right trajectory so there was no big drum roll moment where one of

you presented this to the other it was just hey i'm i'm in you're in let's let's get up well she did it first yeah she really absorbed it she's you know she's the reader she's the the studier and she kind of you know planned this out and then kind of brought me on board um and and that's where we bought into the you know the whole concept that

you know this is a plan we need to be on love i'm definitely the nerd so i found a calculator online and i was like we could pay off our debt really quick let's do this yeah and so it was really easy to get them on board wow congratulations i'm so proud of y'all you're impressive thank you very very well done very well done now that you're professionals

you paid off a hundred and four thousand in two years

uh what's the secret to getting out of debt america wants to know uh i think it was really automating um so every time we got paid i just automatically put the money right into a debt account and you know we just clicked the button we actually didn't do the budget for a long time until this last april when i was like i'm bored let's do something uh

and so then once we started doing that i was like wow we have a lot more money now wow you don't realize what's there until you start like what you say crunching the numbers and you realize it's almost like money begets money yeah it's there but but when you start managing your money and you start accounting for every penny it seems like there just is more it feels like more

it feels like you got a raise absolutely and it's amazing feeling really for that to happen like that so yeah congratulations you guys who were your biggest cheerleaders um probably my parents and um you know i

have a couple a couple friends that were you know kind of cheering me on we'd make you know every time i would make a big sale or something we'd get like a cash fan and be like yes we are you know that much closer to paying off our student loans or whatever we were on so it was it was uh we did have a lot of people around us that were really supportive

and she's an entrepreneur she you know didn't really start off by herself you know knowing what she wanted to do but i was kind of the cheerleader behind her to say you can do this so i was living vicariously through her in terms of her her entrepreneurial spirit and it was really nice to watch that and you know encouraging her along the way um you know and that's why obviously our income increased a lot

i think we wouldn't be where we are right now if it wasn't for the work that she did in her business wow the blood sweat and tears you know building it from the ground up um you know reading the business books late at night and just trying to figure out how to make things work and she's how far are you in now five or six years yes i've been a photographer for 13 years

but i've been doing um my business for six now congratulations you guys how many things in the world make me happier than listening to a husband describing how proud he is of his wife yeah that's beautiful man that's awesome thank you well done very proud of her so how did this help your marriage uh yeah we definitely had to you know be on the same page and

i i think we were just competing to see who could make more money because you know i would do well and then he'd get a raise and it was it was great i think it was very exciting actually i think it helped our marriage in terms of that because you know for us to do this journey and then of course we've been trying to inspire people along

the way and describing what this is all about we've handed out books you know we're we're always thinking one step ahead you know how to how to be forward thinking you know getting on to those next steps um and so that's that's how we got us very cool and you brought the kiddos to do the debt-free screen what are their names and ages uh we have andrew he's eight

and we have evelyn she is six all right very cool well we've got a copy of the legacy journey which is my last book i did uh on what happens now what are you going to leave a legacy now change the family tree so give you a copy of that and take care of you so thank you guys for making the trip all the way from new york we're

so proud of you you're incredible people very very well done all right mike and lacey andrew and evelyn from

new york 104 000 paid off in two years

making 90 to 172 to 163.

count it down let's hear a debt free scream three three two one we're dead free

i love it i love it i love it i love it

that's the first one that's the first macklemore thrift store uh debt free scream i've heard of man that's incredible what what a fortuitous walk through a thrift store man two dollar book yeah that's a good roi on that purchase yeah that old total money makeover for two dollars slightly used slightly it was shiny because somebody spilled something on it so uh hey but then they turned into proselytizers

and they've been buying books and handing them out man i tried i made out on that so i think what we should do is start just putting some coffee a few books in the thrift store i like it because it leads to more book sales this is a new marketing plan yes james is going to be right on that yeah get on that james make that happen send kelly out to

the thrift stores right now that's perfect well done you guys very very proud of you you guys are incredible well that's how you do it you work together that you know and they kept saying over and over they really didn't do anything different except start paying attention and make every dollar behave and then every time they dialed in that much more and made every dollar behave they got that much more mileage out of

it and it accelerated the process this is the ramsey show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones triple h 825-5225

mark is with us in boston hey mark welcome to the ramsey show thanks dave really appreciate how you doing better than i deserve how can we help yeah so i'll uh i'll throw a little back story here i'm currently an undergraduate student um full-time enrolled i have a full tuition scholarship i'm also a resident advisor so i don't play room and board either so i actually uh i net nothing at the end of each semester um recently i just bought a car um i have about ten thousand dollars in debt on that um

there's a obviously a large push from the left pushing for uh student loan forgiveness so i was wondering what your thoughts would be on um pulling out student loans again

and transferring paying off my

car with those loans with student loans and possibly getting the chance to have my car loan that is now student loan forgiven so i'm a taxpayer and i'm supposed to pay off your car with your student loan forgiveness don't you think that's immoral

yeah a little bit but at the same time it's um yeah a little bit it's if the opportunity is there um if the government's gonna be deciding to start handing out money left and right why not take the yeah so um let me tell you the the there was a book out several years ago called millionaire next door by a man named tom stanley who passed away it came out in 1992.

he did a book later called the millionaire mind the millionaire next story studied millionaires the millionaire mind he studied people that had 10 million dollars deck of millionaires and he looked for the character he looked for the correlating statistical points he was a researcher and people that had 10 million or more

and um he found demographic similarities

he found uh career similarities and he found 38

statistical points of reference that

indicated that they were causal that indicated that if you had a large number of these you would have a high indicator that you were heading towards 10 million or more and he listed them in order of the of you know the first one in other words number one was the most often occurring 38 was the least often occurring out of the 38 points you understand what i'm saying and let me tell you what number one was fanatical levels of integrity

you need to visit that and sit on that

because when you do not have fanatical levels of integrity you are missing the number one correlating data point towards become building wealth

versus how much can i scam the american taxpayer out of and get me a free car dude that's just wrong yeah it's just wrong

so no you should not do that a a a

really important mentor of mine posed an important question back in my 20s and the question was this is

integrity something you can sort of have you can mostly have and that has just sat and sat inside me for a long long time because i lived some of my life thinking yeah i mean mostly you know and here's the thing dave

that bill's gonna come do for all of us

it's gonna come do for all of us there's just no you you don't nobody gets rich scamming the government the taxpayers no it's just you don't get wealthy that way you know you don't get wealthy trying to you know run a welfare scam you don't get worse you don't run you don't get wealthy running up uh unemployment scam you don't get wealthy scamming the you know hiding your grandpa's assets

so you can get a government-funded medicaid nursing home which is illegal as crud it's called welfare fraud but people do it every day and so stealing is not a part of integrity why do you think decca millionaires what what's the correlation there i don't know a lot of deca millionaires uh the ones that i know anecdotally align up with that i mean everybody knows so you know any group of people

you put them in the room and there's there's idiots in everybody there's a there's a jerk right there's somebody that doesn't have integrity so not all deca millionaires do but there's a high correlation of that that when they interviewed their wife when they interviewed their kids when they interviewed their employees when they interviewed their competitors in the marketplace they said you know i always agree with that guy

but one thing about it if he says it's raining you better get your umbrella you know if he says if he says he's going to lease hell on you you better get ready because hell's coming you know you better whatever he says he's going to do he's going to do and so uh there's fanatical levels of integrity and and i think it's because most things in this world move on

the speed of trust i was gonna say i think you could probably stumble and grit and grind and cut and cheat your way to three million dollars but to get 10 you got to have other people walking alongside you got to have somebody else lifting with you if they don't trust you yeah and trust is just a it's a mammoth thing uh and yeah how you get trust well you're unbelievably consistent

and you know the word integrity comes uh

from the same root word that we get the word integer from okay or integral okay and so the word

integer if you're a math nerd you know that an integer is a whole number it has no fraction to it it's not 1.5 it's not 1.25 it's a whole it's two one three it's whole

and integrity is whole the whole person

and it's not like well i don't you know i don't cheat on my wife but i do cheat on my taxes you know you know you're just a freaking cheat it's just a matter of time before it's revealed somewhere else it's because it's that hole and the the interesting thing about this is the reason i'm wearing this young man out is uh directly and indirectly and people in our audience simultaneously is that it's a choice you can grow up

being a cheat and just decide i'm done yeah characters in the bible jacob i'm done jacob did it yeah he was known as the deceiver in the bible and then he became a man of integrity you can just say as of today i have integrity you can just decide yeah you can't decide i'm beautiful you can't decide to grow hair i've tried but you can just decide i'm gonna have integrity that's gonna tell

the truth i'm gonna be a man i'm gonna be a woman that can be counted on and so i you know i i you know once i got all that dialed into my head like you know what i pay all my taxes every stinking dime i owe exactly we don't have a side set of books like we don't count the cash we count the cash the cash is part of

the profit it's taxable income in america when you make a cash profit on something you can hide it but i you but the but the law says and my integrity says when i sign that tax return that it's real now i hate taxes and i don't pay a dime more than i have to and i spend money with accountants trying to legally use everything in the law to not pay

it right but once i know what's owed i it's every if

if i ever get audited come on over be a hot knife through butter because it's it's all right there baby i got nothing to hide and my guess is your heart rate runs a little lower yeah you're sleeping you sleep at night you know the whole thing you know i don't have to remember what i don't have to try to remember what i said because whatever i said was what

i said right huh you know it's like we were digging around in the warehouse we closed up a warehouse this week and they brought some of the old files over and i found a file in there i was going through them this morning with my assistant trying to figure out what to throw away and there's a file from 1999 with hate mail and um she she gets all my hate mail

anyway you know because they mail it and comes here and so she's like this is the same thing they say right now they hate you for exactly the same reason that they did in 1999 i think we need to we need to read it on the show oh i do need to do i'll bring the file down next week we'll do that yeah that's a good idea

but you know i'm unbelievably consistent i'm even hated for the same reason next week we're going to do an episode on my show james of just that 40 minutes of reading letters it's going to be fantastic we're all going to feel better about ourselves well we used to do read mean tweets but now that's all there are so it will be all you have to do is open

it nice tweets that's right because they're the rare ones there's three of them that's right three twitter is troll land but you know the the thing is that that

once as a young guy i figured out

reading these people and understanding these people and it became a part of my faith walk too to tell the truth to be the truth to to be consistent it does get easier it's hard in the moment i mean he's got ten thousand dollars in debt now yeah that might have might have gone away if biden makes it go make student loans go away but um that's like fraud yeah

it it you know if you if you hide assets

so that you can get government money yeah that's illegal and my my challenge with the bailout besides the fact that we don't have the money is dave i i didn't understand what i was signing my wife and i signed for a lot but at the end of the day i signed my name on a piece of paper and said i'll pay you back yeah you know what

i mean that's all that's wrestled in my that's just been in me it's old school told you i'll pay you back i will yeah yeah my challenge with it is i it doesn't bother me much it's just quit making the stinking loans if you're gonna forgive them it's intellectually dishonest you plug the hole first right yeah that's just why are you making them if they're so dadgum bad stop making them

and then we'll talk about the rest of them this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsay personality host of the dr john delony podcast which is uh unbelievably popular these days i

guess it actually is believable but it's not i don't believe it i've got like 11 friends and my mom and well that started your base and it has exceeded and they have they have all told six people each and so we got it going my mom hits refresh a lot and i thought that was just it but it's no it's actually a thing it's more than that you've become a thing dude it's happened right here at ramsey

we watched it happen so check it out if you want to hear about life and mental health and boundaries and relationships it's all dr john dolone show and you will leave a lot of things but board will not be one of them and so check it out we'd love to have you there and his best-selling book redefining anxiety as well so we're here to help you with your life your money your mental health questions your relationship questions your life your money all of that is woven in

there together kim is with us to start off this particular hour in roanoke west virginia hi kim how are

you with every virginia hey kim how are you virginia i'm good thank you so much for taking my call i need some education and some advice okay i am 51 years old

my husband's 57 more debt free except for the house we finally got our emergency fund fully funded which means we were able to start our roth this week which brought us up to 15 we owe 170 000

on the house and my question and because i don't know a lot about whole life policies we have two um one

is worth twenty six thousand cash value and one's fourteen thousand and i want to know if we should take those and put them against the principle of that 170 000 and how that works okay uh

well life insurance is a crummy place to

invest money it is not for an investment it's for replacing one of your incomes if one of you dies to help the other one get along we have terms you have enough term insurance in place my husband's dad is a state farm agent he got him his whole life policies a long long long time ago we have term insurance 600 000 on him 300 000 on me so state farm yeah no that's a different

company through through our financial advisor oh okay

okay good well um your husband's uh

dad is still living yes yes

okay he may not understand but i would cancel those okay he likely won't understand but he's yeah but that's not relevant to the conversation this stuff's it's crap it's absolute crap and so you're better off to have your money going into things that are going up in value and that have a good rate of return and um you know and get the you know get the cash value out while

you can because if you die whatever cash value is in there stays with the insurance company state farm keeps it they only pay the face amount of a policy that's how whole life works that's one of the reasons it's such a rip-off so um you do want to go ahead and get rid of that you may have some relationship issues in the midst of doing that but

you need to get rid of it so folks here's the way this works whole life life insurance is roughly 20 times more expensive for the same amount of insurance nationally that's the averages so what

you can buy for five dollars a month in term cost you a hundred dollars a month in whole life but dave it's such a great investment and the other 95 dollars that is not going to insurance then goes into an investment right and so let's learn the rules of the investment the first thing that happens is the first three years of a whole life policy your cash value is zero so you invested

95 a month in our example for three years and you have nothing

that's called a front loaded financial product if you're being kind it's called getting screwed if you're not then once you do get money in there and it starts building up the average whole life policy in this nation today pays 1.2 percent interest and this is a long-term

retirement plan investment which by the way the consumer price index was 4.2 for the last 74 years meaning inflation so if you're not making at least four percent of your money you're not keeping up with inflation so you're losing money when you save money long term at one percent that's after you lost all your money for the first three years but after all of that if you do it for years and years and years and years and years years and you finally have 20 000 in

this 40 or 50 000 whole life policies or cash value build up that you paid an extra 95 dollars a month for all these years and then you die your fifty thousand dollar policy with a twenty thousand dollar savings in it that you've paid twenty times extra per month to get pays

fifty 50 000

what happened to your 20 oh they keep it

we gifted it to the insurance company yeah because we're just those kind of people we wanted a bigger shinier building in our downtown we needed another tower you know dave when you first told me this several months ago i even got over the dismal return

what i didn't get over it's just driven me crazy when i'm driving home by myself they keep your money is that they go invested at 12 and they keep the 11 gap oh yeah they yeah because most of your shopping malls and so forth are financed the mortgage company on major commercial projects is life insurance companies they they loan money back out into real estate as a mortgage company

and make you know eight ten twelve on it wherever in there and so uh but aside from that so you have a banking system where you bought term insurance for five dollars you put 95 dollars into a savings program that for the first three years they keep your money after that they pay you 1.2 percent and when you die they keep your savings account now what kind of idiot would have a savings account like that none

but of course it's never explained to you that way by those people because they sell this crap so there's only two people that sell whole life life insurance ignorant people that don't understand it who are actually good kind sweet people they're just ignorant because that's exactly how it works or

crooks because if you understood that and you sell it anyway you're crook by definition and so um

that means that sweet little lady's sweet little father-in-law i just called him a crook but oh well or are ignorant he's more than likely just ignorant though most of those guys i know in that world they're this to make sure they see that money they'll make sure they mainly sell they mainly sell homeowners and car insurance and so then that you know their company has whole life

and they they get them tied up into this and they make good money because you get paid in the insurance world you get paid on premium and so if the premium's 20 times more your commission's 20 times more so of course they're going to go oh i think that's really good stuff you know but no one in the entire

financial community not a single person anywhere in the financial world today recommends cash value life insurance except people that sell it

none of the rest of us none of us that have you know that are independent people in the investment world you know they tell you get you you do need life insurance but you need to get term insurance people anywhere else any kind of study you do any kind of formal academic study you do anything unless it's from the whole life world unless it's from the people who sell

it they don't tell you to buy it because it's absolutely the payday lender of the middle class is there any data that shows that people buy that more than term oh yeah they buy a lot more than that i feel like everyone i know has whole life yeah and the reason you know why they buy it more in terms because they're sold more pushed more than the term yeah

i mean until until 15 20

years ago term insurance and nobody talked about it hardly this was like this was the you know but if you go into every major city in america that in the skyline is banks intern and life insurance companies i wonder how that happened santa claus didn't build those buildings you did people this is the ramsay show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us america this is the ramsey show common sense for your dollars and cents teaching people to live on less than they make a concept congress can't grasp lydia is with us in columbia missouri hey lydia how are you fine thank you how are you doing today better than i deserve how can we help you um my husband and i are currently renting and our rent and spies roughly by july

this year we've been planning to buy our own home and we started listening to your program less than two or three months

and we want to buy our own home because our kids are here to join us we are immigrants i joined my husband about two years ago in the pandemic or before the pandemic and i started working not long ago our income for the year

it's about 150 160 my husband makes over

100 and i make about 30 000.

we have car loans my husband has student

loans we have irs debt our total debt is 125.

uh our question is you've been here he's been here three years or you've been here three years i have been here two years he has been here 20 years 20 10 10.

okay i was thinking man he got car debt and irs debt pretty quick okay wow okay so

now where which uh which country are you immigrating from uh ghana africa wonderful and uh

is this a permanent citizenship or green card or what i am on green card he's permanent resident okay all right wonderful so you'll be able to get your citizenship then right yes yes wonderful awesome well welcome we're glad you're here all right and what do you guys do for a living um he's a nest and i'm also a nurse as well

but i am a medical assistant he's unless in the fight field gotcha and how old are your children our son is 21

daughter is eight 15. our two little

ones 10 and eight and they're all in africa

one is here one is my step my husband had a child out with someone when he was here without me and then i have a natural fat i have two kids he has two back home but we both are out of our first marriages so we we have been together less than five years i understand okay and the um

so you're you're you could rent a home for the children that would live in your home if they were to move here correct yes okay that's what you need to do you need to get out of debt first build your emergency fund of three

to six months of them expenses second and then then start saving

to buy a home when you buy a home with all this debt hanging around your neck and with no emergency savings the home will end up being more of a curse than a blessing it is not a uh it is it is home ownership when you're broke is a bad thing it will get you it will bite you um and so you've got you've got good incomes uh

he has had some bad he's developed some bad american habits with money i hear them in the mistakes he's made you may have participated in a couple of those but you got car debt you got irs debt you got some other things you need to clean up here because that's that's a mess and then save your emergency fund for a rainy day and then and then do

this so what i want to do is i want to help you with this because i'm inspired by your story we have a class called financial peace university we have a budgeting app called every dollar the premium version of every dollar in financial peace university are all included in what's called ramsey plus a one-year membership

to that to be able to watch those videos go through this financial class you and your husband do that together obviously we charge a hundred dollars for all of that per year if i give it to you as a gift will you

promise me that you and your husband will do everything in there yes you will

i think you might so you hold on and i'll give it to you kelly will pick up and we'll get you signed up um that's pretty cool that's super cool and i love how you framed that you've picked up some bad american habits you don't do that in ghana that's hey man you don't have irs debt and car debt in ghana no it's it's the truth right it's

the truth it's a it's a cultural thing i mean there's there are countries that do the same stupid butt stuff we do australia they're about as you know uk

you know england about as stupid as we are on stuff like this or dumber in some cases but uh as a culture but um you know you can observe these things in different cultures the way people handle money the way they see money it has a lot to do with a lot of different factors economic factors and other things but you know what's interesting is if they get their act together

they have a higher probability of becoming wealthy than someone that's born here why do you think that is i think they believe that it's a land of opportunity and some of us aren't sure we just don't believe it anymore we're waiting on somebody else to do it and that that all they wanted was a chance a place that they could do it and they just see fields upon fields to go be killed right it's

the uh the land of opportunity not the land of and entitlement they see it that way they think the statue of liberty is real and um i do because i'm an old-fashioned american softy some of the coolest most inspirational folks i've i've been around in my in my in my educational career was international students who'd come over and say you're telling me i can get a law degree here

you tell me i can go to med school you're telling me i can go to walmart and they have seven kinds of game on yeah let's do this man this is the land of abundance yeah yeah gift upon gift upon gift two aisles

of cookies yeah what do you mean you gotta be kidding me yeah it's it's real

john's in arlington virginia hey john welcome to the ramsay show yes sir thank you um thank you

hi david hi john hi how can we help

uh so i have a question i'm on a baby

step six of your book um i have uh

network is about one 1.8 million way to

go free all right thank you um

i didn't think it happened uh so network

i'm debt free um definitely have an emergency fund my mortgage is uh 381

000 left on it and

i'm considering there's out of my brokerage accounts um there's one fund that has about 314

000 in it and i'm wondering if i should sell that to pay off my mortgage um it's returning about 13

percent and how old are you

okay where'd it go did you uh did you inherit any of this 1.8 million um i inherited nine thousand nine thousand dollars yeah that's the greatest answer

so you did what's been your income through your working life here um so when i was 20

it was down like somewhere some years 50

dollars and to 100 to a couple thousand i had uh

what's been your best year what'd you make your very best year ever 160 okay what's your career field

uh and uh software consulting way to go

i'm so proud of you man awesome man so here's the way you answer the question there's a an old thing from the harvard investment newsletter that's called sunk cost analysis and you just reverse engineer your question and it'll answer it for you if your home was paid off and you did not have this investment com brokerage would you go borrow on your paid for home and put 300 000 in a brokerage account

no same thing

every day that you don't pay this off you borrowed it again

yeah so what that question does though is it also causes you you're telling me about the 13 rate of return and all that crap so that's the math side of your brain the other side of your brain called your heart is where you measure risk and when i suggested that you borrow on your paid for home it kind of puts your stomach in your throat a little bit

and that means that you all of a sudden started measuring the risk of this you're not going to go bankrupt and you're not going to foreclose down you're worth 1.8 million dollars you've done you've done it dude you're good but this is just a measurement of peace when your head lays on the pillow at night pay off your house today sir this is the ramsey show

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thank you for joining us america dr john deloney is my co-host today here on the air uh you can add hope to your inbox hope

to your inbox with ramsey newsletter whether you're on baby step one two three four five six or seven it's packed with actionable guidance on up-to-date ways to save money stay on a budget invest smarter give more every week we walk with you as you tackle debt as you build your savings plus you'll never miss the latest articles shows products from ramsey solutions of course it's free you can subscribe to the ramsey newsletter today at ramseysolutions.com

newsletter our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more the promo code is ramsey all right today's question comes from robbie in california at age five i started piano lessons and five years later i got a job playing at a restaurant on weekends i was paid 60 bucks a night plus tips

my dad said that since i was a minor he would save the money for me when i started college and asked for the funds i learned all the money was gone i know the account had over eight thousand dollars in it how do i move on from the trauma of this and develop a healthy relationship with money i don't think the relationship problem here is with money i think you got to say what your dad did sucks and there's a period at the end of that sentence and then you got to move on um

i'd add one more sentence what he did sucks he sucks yeah he stole it from his kid what a scumburger stole from his kid

and let me tell you it'll just tell you when i say that everybody goes yeah but when this young man hears me say that or you say that it's hard for him to hear it's hard to hear your dad is a bad guy oh yeah your mom's a bad lady because we jump in and want to defend him well i mean it's just it's just that's it's against our nature to think that

the person that's supposed to take care of you screwed you over yeah but you got you got to say it i often tell people to write it down and put a period into that sentence yeah and then you got to feel it and it

hurts and then you got to go make a decision what you're gonna do next yeah and so you know what are your takeaways from this you how do you defeat the

emotional scars and trauma you have to intellectually get above them and uh then you feel them yeah you got

to feel them yeah but getting above them is it's not a pr it's not a money problem it's a dad problem it's a dead problem and so what do you walk away from this learning uh well hey you're good at the piano uh people will pay you for it yeah uh b you uh you know you have the ability to make money and save money works hard yeah you got a good work ethic i mean 10 years old he's at the pianos i'm reading that right five plus five yeah yeah and so um uh uh

don't trust your dad with money yeah we're not gonna give him any money yeah i'm not gonna trust him with much anything really yeah um you know just uh five minutes of our time maybe but i'm not not gonna leave my kid there yeah either uh you can't trust him stealing i don't know what else i can trust him with so i mean he be there with my kid but not leave my

kid there by myself by himself so um i wouldn't um not tell this is not so

something some kind of noticeable change in the old man's life because he's crook yeah um then uh the other thing is

is that you probably learned a lesson that you do want to learn and that is you don't trust other people to take care of your money now when you're 10 you're supposed to yeah he's a child but but you can take that away and go you know when i'm 40 i'm not going to let someone take care of my money blindly that's right i'm going to always be involved i'm going to always know where my money is i'm always going to understand

it um no one's got like power of attorney so you know i'm in nashville we're in nashville and over the years i've become friends with a lot of uh folks in the music business they get scammed they just and the stories of the guys

that are you know 60 70 years old and how they got scammed when they were making big hits because they turned everything over it's like an athlete and they knew this guy yeah and i loved him and he hung out with my kids and my family and 100 million dollars later he took a lot of my money yeah i don't have any money because i turn it over to him like

this kid turn it over to his dad you have to do that when you're ten you don't have to do that when you're adults so it's a good it's a good takeaway and that's not being bitter or that's not being toxic or something you know i don't trust anymore because of my father no you just don't you know it's your job to manage the money and understand what it's doing

you can help get advice from people but you can't get a babysitter for your money so there's been some i've been doing a lot of reading on trauma the last few years dave and um there's two guys dr peter levine and another guy named dr bessel vanderkolt they have a description of trauma that was transformative for me and it was it's less about the issue

and more about your body's response in the present to that issue so what i would tell this young man is

when he's about to do something related with money and his heart starts racing just stop for a second and acknowledge oh my body's trying to take care of me and then you can say i'm good i appreciate your body taking care of me but i know what i'm doing now or i've got trust here or i've dug into this account or i'm and what you want to do is make peace with your body in

the present cause it's just trying to take care of you and it will take care of that little 10 year old kid for the rest of your life if you don't acknowledge it but we spend so much time trying to replay what has already happened try to edit that story you can't edit the fact your dad stole your money what you can do is learn to make peace with your body moving forward that's interesting your body reacts as

if the same event is happening again yes over and over it remembers to warn you that it could be happening again and that's why it's a warning mechanism all day every day and we even will fall into similar relationships to people who hurt us in the past because our body wants to correct it and fix it and we'll end up in the same situation over and over look

i remember when we were i was a little kid we were coming home from my grandmother's uh several mini like a 10 hour drive and uh

we came across the top of this hill two lane road and stopped because the guy was turning left in front of us guy came over the hill and plowed in the back of us i mean knocked us in the neck to total the car wow it was a bad car wreck and um it

i that was 50 years ago

and when somebody gets up on my bumper from behind now your heart takes off still feeling it takes off that's right that's the same thing and so there's a century there's a little part of your brain that's is going to scan your environment forever until you say oh there it is i'm good

i'm in a big raptor now right yeah i'm good yeah i'll win this exchange yeah yeah but it's just like oh i want to get one of those old people bumper stickers like get off my butt you know kind of thing get off my lawn you know yeah that kind of thing and uh it's just but it's all it's that it's associated with that trauma your body remembers that the name of the book is the body keeps the score right and so when think about when you uh like when

you're you know these guys are called up in their second marriage but their first wife blew all the money and stole everything and so they have trouble trusting the new wife and so dave we are in a culture that is so obsessed with new information and we can shove it all in a frontal lobe new facts but that part of our brain that's looking for threats is still running

and running lizard brain is real always running until you make peace with she walks in holding the checkbook and you go you gotta go hey she's different she's new she i trust her she ain't got the same name i trust her that's right i trust her she looks totally different yeah right and your body will begin to go okay cool just want to make sure that she's not a threat

and once you make peace with your body man that's when your body re you receive this healing from this trauma you know that's what happens when people get their emergency fund that's exactly right they've been living on the edge for so long that every stinking little thing was a crisis everything i mean every hangnail is a crisis when you're broke right i mean every little dinky 50 thing is a crisis

when you're broke but when you got ten thousand dollars in the bank it's an inconvenience it's annoying it's just an annoyance but when your emotions still go oh god oh god and we hear about people who get out of debt and they say i can't spend now that's it yeah because they've got a part of their brain saying you will never spend again because we remember what happened last time yeah

and you got to make peace with it yeah and that's when that's that's why you're coaching you can retrain it because i mean it requires it requires intellectually getting above it that's right and going wait facts are my friends as you always say yeah and so like you know but you can't you can't steamroll your feelings with you guys i mean like sharon when we went broke

she was terrorized by us being broke yep and so anytime we do anything that feels like the stuff we used to do like we might the alarm sets off and it's like whoa chill we've got money there's lots of zeros and comments we could just burn that much in the middle of the floor nobody will care so it's okay it's okay and she okay she has to have to revisit

it that's very interesting the human body is extraordinary at taking care of us wow this is the ramsey show

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they love alex is in santa clara california hi alex how are you good sir thank you for taking my call how are you better than i deserve what's up so my parents are what you might call

rock stars mom's a teacher dad's a cop and they are multi-millionaires just from doing all your stuff which means that when i went to college i went to this real fancy expensive school and they were able to cashflow the whole thing i i'm 24 now i can't help but feel like

i you know i want to pay them back somehow but i can't just cut them a check you know it's not like they're going to care about that so you know what kind of things can i do as a son you know to honor the gifts that they've given me and pay them back somehow get married and have babies and be a

good husband don't be an idiot

yeah you don't you don't give them they don't want money they don't need money uh let me tell you i got three kids that are successful uh have great marriages strong followers

of jesus that they're they're experts in their fields uh they're they're very giving and generous they're good moms and dads and they bring the grand babies over to see papa dave i don't need anything else from them dude that's everything that's the best way they can pay me back don't be screw-ups

is it really that simple it really is hey alex and i'll tell you i'll add one more um i can't believe it took me this long to do this as i was leaving my home state to move to nashville um i took a detour i drove about three

hours out of the way and i i called my dad and said hey would you like to meet for coffee as i'm leaving the state he said sure and i had a moment to look him in the eye over coffee and i just said hey i need you to know something you did a great job and i'm so glad i'm your son and

that was an exchange that i should have had 20 years ago 15 years ago 10 years ago man you can't pay the light bill with that but i think my dad he walked about six inches taller after that and i think every dad wants to hear from their kids i'm grateful for you and man as a 24 year old your roi is money how can i pay you back

man letting them know yeah i'll tell you grateful for your if your dad if your dad is your hero tell him to his face give him a hug a front hug front hug front cut your dad

don't be weird about it do it and you

know and every so and every so often just go you know if you want to spend some money uh you know buy a couple airline tickets and go on a blank trip whatever it is you do hunting trip golf trip i don't care and that kind of stuff i i

you know my sons and i and uh my my son

son-in-law's dads we all went on a big golfing trip this summer all together and that was that was more fun than i can think of doing anything so those kinds of things i have breakfast every tuesday morning with my son who is one of our senior vice presidents here and runs a big portion of this company and um he and i have breakfast here every morning every tuesday morning seven o'clock if i'm in town he's in town and um you know we talk about everything

uh business kids everything all of them down and it's just that that stuff is more important dude than you buying them a thingy but here's the thing the fact that alex at 24 is thinking about the character part

how can i let these two important people know that i love them tells me he was raised right yeah beyond the fact that his parents didn't make a ton of money but they still figured out how to be millionaires so schoolteacher and a cop that's right yeah you're not making a ton of money in that house and i've lived with a schoolteacher and a cop but they taught this guy integrity and don't

guys life is a mist

it's a vapor i've never ever sat with somebody who said you know what i told my kid i loved him too much i told my dad i loved him too much say it again and again and again cat's in the cradle and a silver spoon right all right kevin in spokane washington hey kevin how are you i'm

but i deserve dave good how can we help

well i have a question and i mean uh i mean to the gist of it there's a lot of details to it but the gist is i've been working on lawn care for a long time and i've as most guys in the industry have thought about going off on my own start my own business and my wife and i kind of came to that decision over this last winter

and and we're kind of getting there so i guess my real question is like should i should i do it the slow way debt-free where you know i every i getting another couple customers every year and i save up and i buy equipment and then i do it that way or i mean we both really

decided to do this full-time that if i should take a business loan and get the equipment i need to really get started uh you know beginning yeah how long have you been listening to this show hi kevin i'd like to introduce you to my friend dave ramsey how long you been watching the show well yes i mean long story short i actually know that's a simple question dude how long have

you been listening to the show uh about a month okay that's cool and so you've listened about 10 or 15 episodes or something okay that's fine but if you've been listening for two years it's a different answer so uh it's not as gentle and so um

we teach people not to borrow money because the shortest distance between where you are in wealth is debt-free right and so

um i started this business as 350 million dollars this year off a card table in my living room and every year we poured money back into it and grown it organically with organic cash flow we've never borrowed a dime um and uh you know so lots of times we

didn't go do something or buy something because we were investing back into ramsey and growing ramsey and it's worked out well for us so um you can do the same thing here so you start with the best equipment you can get with the cash you have and you work like a crazy man because

equipment is called overhead yeah and you know you so you always want to limit overhead in business you don't go buy the the guys in the loan business that have the biggest fanciest tractors are the ones that make the least money

well that's the point and uh you know if you go up on a construction site and there's seven pickups sitting there and there's three brand new ones that look like they're off a chevy commercial going through a mud puddle and there's two beat up ones the guys with the two beat up ones are millionaires the other two twerps can't make their payments friday

and this is how life works so that's what you do here you buy the least equipment that'll get the job done uh and as you make more and more and more money your equipment will be better and better that's fine and more and more equipment and you can run more than one crew and all that kind of stuff the good news is you know the business well enough that you're confident that you can grow it that's good and so but you can

the good news about lawn care is you can start it with very little money uh and you probably have the cash to buy that first tractor and little trailer and little pickup to pull it around and one weed eater and get her done baby i'd love to see him put a price everything out some good used equipment get a number and then sit down with his wife

and say let's go berserker mode for nine months 12 months get that number and get this number yeah and then you slow down a little bit but i want you to go bananas and get that and just not work or if it's two thousand dollars and you got two thousand dollars and you wanna dump it in there and go do it get after it right go get

it if you got the two thousand dollars laying there and but you don't need twenty thousand dollars to do this no people just overbuy to get going you don't well you're gonna buy the wrong stuff and it's gonna be different and you know i mean the computer world god man you know how fast our computers are out of date as soon as we unpack them out of

the box that's kind of the new thing you buy this whole shipment of computers you get them up you open them all you tear off that little piece of cellophane and then you just close them and put them back in the box and yeah they usually ship them to somebody else already done you know it's unbelievable so i mean i can't tell you how many times we've replaced computers in 30 years of running

this business wow i mean we just and they're just they're dust they're a door stop you know but

my dad's still using that same honda lawnmower he's had for 111 years well i mean equipment is equipment it's overhead and keep your overhead down if you're going to win in business i think you're going to do great kevin and i think you need to go do it but you do it with cash brother thank you for calling in that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the bugs

hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramsieshow.com thanks for listening

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today he's the host of the very popular dr john in dalloni podcast the popularity is going uh up and to the right it's hockey sticking the numbers are amazing so if you want to hear a really entertaining show about life and uh people's um questions about relationships and so forth he's there and he's here today to help you as well the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five speaking of calls

for dr john caleb's with us in austin texas hi caleb how are you good better than i

deserve how about you guys just the same sir how can we help figured uh well i'm calling on behalf of my amazing wife her and her mom had a falling out about probably about three years ago and i'm sorry say that again how long ago probably about three years ago three years ago okay yeah and it's still pretty uh pretty hectic

um and so my what does that mean

what does hectic mean uh it's not it's

not a good relationship um we so we had our son who just turned nine months uh they met once and our

the kind of the rules we have is not allowed at our house and my son's our son's not allowed over there and

it's it's just it's weighing heavy on my wife um so what do you feel i need to draw that's a hard boundary why'd you feel the need to draw that boundary it's it's uh it's just a cancerous

person i guess to say that be more specific you're talking pretty vague be specific something happened that said you cannot do that is a danger to your child yeah uh well

just the environment uh her boyfriend is not uh not

the best man in the world um she's just she's very negative she's always heard our marriage would laugh and tell people we're not going to laugh when my wife got pregnant and said uh you know that i wasn't going to stick around okay and we had a miscarriage and she just blew it off and my wife just recently asked her to uh if they could go to counseling and try and fix it and she was just like uh all things about it and it's just i mean it's just to me my kind of view

is if if the thought of being around someone stresses me out i just don't even want to deal with that that's easier said than when it's your mom and yeah and your your your wife has a picture in

her head of this new baby and her mom's a part of that and she had to draw boundaries for whatever reason i still don't fully get it but she had to draw some boundaries that doesn't include her so she's gonna agree i'm trying to understand just as a guy i'll let john talk a minute but but so your your mother-in-law's uh series of offenses are that she's a jerk

uh yeah and well i mean she done something other than has she done something other than just been a jerk to your wife uh no no like physical harm nobody i mean is she just like nasty and kind of mean

snarly snarly yeah and i mean there's a lot of uh ethical things that have gone on with like uh finances and stuff like that that i don't want to air out right um well like she stole from your wife

uh well from uh her father okay

she's just a person of no character right yes okay like so she only will talk to my wife when her boyfriend's out of town and then when her boyfriend comes back she doesn't respond to anything so what's the challenge is your wife just struggling with just putting a period at the end of that relationship and moving on yeah it's just yeah it eats her up inside yeah

and that's where i'm calling them that and like i'm just trying to you know i guess the man to me is just like well you know so long and for her it's harder and i'm just trying to figure out yeah it's her mom yeah that's her mom yeah you got to honor that don't go don't get in the trap of talking bad about her mom get in

the trash supporting her and loving her at some point she's gonna have to make the decision she's gonna have to put a peer at the end of that sentence her mom's never gonna do it with her because if she would you wouldn't be in the situation the first place so your wife's gonna have to decide to grieve this loss and then start creating a new picture that's gonna include her baby

you and whoever else but not mom and your wife's can do that on her own terms in her own time and that's frustrating and annoying if you're a husband who loves his wife and doesn't want to see her hurt but any time there's a separation from a mom like this it's just going to be hurt yeah it's going to be hard yeah especially let me throw out

something um the secret to happiness is low

expectations yeah and so um

if uh if

her mother had a

i'll just make up something i don't know something where let's say she had alzheimer's okay and when people get alzheimer's they generally either become much nicer than they used to be or much meaner than they used to be um my mother-in-law got alzheimer's and uh bless her soul she got nicer and um

uh and kept feeding the dog until the dog got fed fat i mean it was it was almost humorous and so because she forgets she fed the dog yeah so if you had someone like that you would not we were never looked at sharon's mom when she was going through that and said we we lowered our expectations of her because she was deficit

does that make sense yeah no that makes more i mean my expectations i don't think you do anyway yeah and i think your wife still has high mom expectations of a woman who can't deliver yeah and so if she lowered her expectations and just said pretend like mom has alzheimer's and she's a little nutty because she's a little nutty dude the woman you just described is like oscar

the grouch yeah and she's really not it she's really not got her crap together mentally this woman doesn't but i can see the challenge between someone with alzheimer's and saying this person's got i know but i'm saying if you if you if you're i'm talking about his wife if she

said instead of hoping mom is going to be all super moms oh she's never going to be i know instead said let's treat her as if she's deficit because she is gotcha if you and you just go oh that's just my crazy mother this is just your mother it's just my crazy mother that's just my crazy mother yeah i mean and then you don't then you don't get all tore up about

it because she the reason my the girl's getting all tore up about it she keeps thinking mom's gonna come through she's got she's got this picture am i wrong um yeah but i think i think that i think that that having lower

expectations isn't gonna make her feel good she's still gonna have to be she's still gonna have to grieve that thing that mom's never gonna come through like that i don't disagree with that yeah but i'm saying if every one of these conversations it's like my mom did it again well what did you expect yeah yeah yeah yeah if you if the rattlesnake's gonna bite you right that's

it the stinking snake bites so don't be when they start you know when that little tail starts wiggling and making that little noise you just get back you know caleb let me ask you this are you in a place have you all backed yourselves into a corner with an either or that was a little bit over the top or do you feel good about it um and i'll ask

you this i know a lot of first-time parents who who make these big declarations you can't come into my home unless you've you've showered in lysol and wash your hands and by third kid you know the kid's walking in with a handful of dog do and nobody cares right have you all first kitted this situation where you have you've made these declarations yeah and i don't know my mindset is

if you have to hide seeing my son then why like why why are we even going to be around that type of person no disagree with you yeah well

yeah it's the bottom line is there's a lot of heartbreak for your wife it's very hard for her um crazy mom's

just gonna be crazy you're looking at it very like ah that's what it is and it's just it's it's her mom you can't take that loose that there's still that umbilical cord in the spiritual world be gentle with your grieving man i'll send you a copy of henry cloud's book called boundaries he's a friend of john's and mine and it's a world-class book on this subject hold on i'll send you a copy of it

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five when it comes to making big money or life moves like buying a home or getting married or having a baby it's likely the last thing on your mind to make sure you have the right insurance coverage i get it big changes have a lot of details but what would be even more overwhelming is to find yourself in a situation where

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233-789 rodney's in rochester minnesota hi rodney how are

you good yourselves better than i deserve what's up hey um just recently been listening to

you um got a couple questions on

where i'm at with my job being a union member we have what um you know everyone knows

there's a pension and we also have an annuity and i've been in the trade for seven years now um they send us statements

now listening to you i'm kind of picking apart when my statement comes and what they're investing our money into good i'm kind of break kind of to break it down uh you

recommend 15 um last year alone and made a hundred and like 111 000 so a little over 15 000

a year and hours worked last year out of you know our package they take six dollars and fifty cents an hour put it into that annuity and i'm you know getting pretty close to that fifteen percent now do you count that as my 15

do i need to go out and start anything else because i have my pension which we have a great pension and the annuity i'm just wondering where i should go from there and i also looked on the statements they have things like you know they put some of our money into bonds but they have like the mid cap good growth stocks and you know everything you talk about

but they also give you the option on this website that we can change what we'd like and i wonder if i find like uh you know smart investor pro and he gets

inside my annuity can he break that down into just strictly um the mutual funds alone is that something so let me make sure i understand exactly i think i do but let me make sure your pension of course you're putting nothing in their funding that your annuity is coming out of your check you are putting it in but it's mandatory

yes sir okay and it amounts to almost 15 percent and you have choices in there that you can do and so that's much like a person in corporate america having a 401k all right and so you have them you only you have a mandatory money that you're putting in do they match the annuity as well or they just do the pension just uh pension perfect okay does the

annuity have the option of being a roth

i have not asked okay so first thing i want to do is find out if it's a roth and then the next thing um the you can get in touch with the smart investor pro they make their money the smart investor pros when they sell you a mutual fund and put it into like your roth ira or do a 401k rollover or something like that so helping

you pick your annuity over at the union makes them zero they might do it anyway as a favor because you're a dave ramsey listener so you could ask one of them they probably would do it just so they could help your wife or help your kids or your grandpa or whatever later that kind of a thing but they're not they're not actually going to make money on that transaction obviously that's a union transaction

but they might do it so let's kind of talk through for a second though that you said mid cap i'm guessing they have mid cap they have small cap they have uh bonds uh they they probably have

large cap or something like that does this does that sound right you nailed it you bet okay well let's talk through and i'll explain to you what they are and you can put percentages in each one correct yes i can okay we teach people to put money in four types of mutual funds growth growth and income aggressive growth and international and let's just have a little class here on what this stuff is because it's good for the listeners all across america to hear while i'm talking to you okay so okay uh cap means capitalization

means this money the company has large cap is big companies huge big dinosaur

companies if you were to look in that large cap fund you would see names like alcoa general motors big old honkin

dinosaurs that move slow and are predictable and steady okay

small cap is quite the opposite it's the rowdy kids all right it's the brand new startups the tech boys some of the healthcare startup things uh the brand the companies haven't been around a long time it's going to make a lot more money but lose a lot more money it's going to be wild child of the of the mix you're following me yes because they're the small companies they're brand new

so they're more volatile or they're or they're just rowdy whatever they i mean they could be in a rowdy industry whatever they're volatile mid cap guess what that's goldilocks that's right in the middle the porridge that's just right okay and so that's kind of you know that's that's like your uh home depot or mcdonald's

or you know uh i don't know

uh you you might find uh facebook in there you might find some stuff like that those are big companies but they're not old stodgy companies they still have some life to them they're still kind of they're kind of in the middle you know they're like it's like the young kid that's wild the middle ager and the older guy kind of thing almost uh in terms of their behavior and their risk patterns uh and so your large cap is

much like a growth and income that i'm telling you your mid cap is much like a traditional growth fund your small cap is much like an aggressive growth fund do you have anything that sounds like international or foreign yes i those are on there as well they have they list well you know i've i've heard you run through them and uh you know put a few your youtubes and i looked on my sheet and those are all on there but they're not split exactly 25 25

five percent okay are the large cat is the large cap a group of funds or one fund that is large gap uh it be a group there's multiple okay so you have to pick like one whole thing and being that is that what they're telling you um you know i don't know i wish i had

that that's okay i'm just i'm just i'm trying yeah yeah it's it sounds like if if like mid cap is like 10 different funds in there i just and you have to pick one of them i'd pick that one okay because because it's right down the middle okay and it spreads it across those 10 funds and just forget it all right that's like a buying an s p 500 funds fund almost like yeah about like buying an index fund

i wouldn't want you in the wild child with everything i'd love to have some over in there though so if you could put 25 large cap 25 small cap 25 mid cap and 25 international

that would give you the mix we're talking about and i think we're done for the day you know i mean that's that's going to get you there but i'm not sure that that's what they're allowing you to do here i can't tell whether they're grouping these things if you pick a single fund out of the large cap pick the best one the one that's got the best track record over 10 or more years do a single fund out of

the mid cap pick the best one the one that's got the best track record over 10 to 25 years same thing in the small same thing the international and you put those four funds together out of those four different categories now you've got a portfolio like we talk about like i personally do with my 401k john does too here at our company and so

but that that's these these names

tell you what they are so teach me what an annuity is i hear that a lot an annuity is technically an insurance company product a savings account with an insurance company okay this is a variable annuity that's funded with mutual funds a fixed annuity is a it sucks a fixed annuity is like a cd but at an insurance company it's gonna pay two three percent and they're gonna take the cap and and but the annuity wraps around the money and keeps it warm from taxes like being in a 401k so

it's just a different product under a different bank exactly but you but inside of a variable annuity you can have all these different options we've been talking about okay and so it sounds like they've got a fairly good offering it's a broad really great yeah if you can just weed through the weeds and figure out what to do with it so yeah you could check a smart vester pro one of them will probably help

you walk through it and knock this down but that's the general ideas of how you get at this rodney thanks for being a listener

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five riley is with us in kansas

city hi riley welcome to the ramsey show

hi dave and dr john it's an honor to speak to you guys you too what's up so my wife and i got married back in january congratulations thank you sir um we

finished up baby step three in march and we're trying to figure out now whether we should move on to baby step 3b or move into baby step four with the

idea of throwing whatever else we can into a savings account for a down payment eventually awesome good work man that's

incredible so uh how old are you guys i am 23 and

she is 21. what's your household income um it's going to be roughly 100 000 so she is

still in school she finishes in may and she'll start working full time in july awesome what's she going to do

she's an architectural engineer a lot smarter than me well played man well played always good to marry up brother so what do you do i work in landscaping good very good okay all right so a hundred thousand dollar household income you're in your early twenties and you're thinking about starting to save for a house what's the downside um well we're not entirely sure when

we know the place that we're living at now we have a contract through until next july and we're kind of

thinking we'd potentially be in the position to buy a house maybe next spring but we're also not sure so i don't know if if it's

if we should you know save up and i really wouldn't know how much exactly to save up or at this point and then start baby step four or start baby step four and throw whatever we can well you got plenty of time to do either you're very smart very wise very ahead of the game at your age and so you're not calling me up at 62 with

this question you're already you're you know you've already got you got 50 years here to play this out so you're going to be fine dude you've done well so uh you're going to get both you're going to get retirement and you're going to get a house so it's just a matter of what the order and what the first things are so what's the in my mind as young as

you guys are i i would you know how much to put down i'll give you a hint the more you put down the better off you're going to be you can't put down too much it's impossible so um just start saving i mean once you just pile up as much money as you can pile up in the next 12 months okay and guess what if you don't buy a house

then you still got to build a pile of money it's okay okay and then you could start then you could start your uh baby step four and if you run numbers from you know 25 to 65 that 40 years

investing 15 of 100 000 that's going to be like 15 million dollars

that's what you're going to have so my point is if you if you put this off two years and save for a house and then start saving for retirement as long as you do 15 the rest of your life and that's if you never get a raise which by the way if you work 40 years and never get a raise you're a loser okay so i think you're going to be okay right you're following me

i mean the set of assumptions here is very conservative is my point yes sir yes sir you're going to do great i'll just pile up as much as you can pile up this year just make it a game how much of a down payment can we save he sounds like a guy that

got in the football game and on the very first pass he made some good moves and scored a touchdown and he crossed the line and the crowd is cheering he didn't know what to do with the ball he didn't have a dance plan he does it like do i just hand it back to the rep i don't know what to do man and it's just celebrate and then go to the next step yeah right it's this weird 23 and we are

crushing it and do we uh

touchdown dude it's awesome it's awesome that's fun you've done so well sir so well monique is with us in bangor maine hi monique how are you very well thank you to kelly for taking my call today sure if you got by her your life's good what's up good move monique

so i am looking for some guidance from

dave and dr delaney about my will

i have two daughters one of whom

is doing very well financially she and

her husband are in the one percent and the other daughter earns about 50 000 and for several years i felt uncomfortable

about how to like divide up the assets i'm an

everyday millionaire but more recently

i i've gotten to the point where i don't want to give either of them any money i i feel like

i've worked so hard my whole life i paid for college for them i've paid

over half a million dollars for college for them and they've turned into socialists and

they just but they have

and and well you sit on the wrong college yeah you're my favorite call maybe in two months

i know we're all laughing no we're with you i'm depressed i'm very depressed about where i

see my children heading and i think

i don't want my money to go to them

and i feel terrible about that you shouldn't they're not entitled they didn't hit the dna lottery they're not entitled

my children have been instructed since they were small that in order to get the opportunity to manage the money that god gave me to manage meaning that i've hand off the responsibility to manage some of the ramsey fortune to them they will have to be people of character socialists are not people of character

okay there are parasites and so um

if my children are going to be parasites i'm not going to finance their lives so that they have a reality show

is there a way to put money in let's say

a trust where they couldn't get access

to it to they were let's say 70 years old

i mean then they'd just be a 70 year old socialist right well but i i'm hoping by then they will have kind of woken up you can i put mine is my all of our estate is trust based and our trust is um we've done it from a faith perspective not an economics perspective

but uh if they're not walking with god they don't get to manage god's money it's what the trust says really yep

in no uncertain terms and so uh

you know in your case you could change that lingo and just go you know when you become a capitalist you get the opportunity to manage this money monique here's what i would do i would take some time to distill down beyond the monikers and the port on atlas shrugged what

that's fantastic um man i

am not usually at a loss for words and you got me on that one um monique here's what i want you to do i want you to distill down beneath the quote-unquote word socialist okay what are the things that they are saying that concerns you that you think that you are

leaning into and i want you to have a direct straight conversation about what these things are and then i want you to identify them and like dave said it's your mind you can do what you want to with it i i've seen more and more of the last four or five years a lot of semantic shale games and once you talk to somebody it's like oh we're way on the same page i just thought this about this about that right i think you can say that i you are not

required morally ethically legally spiritually to leave your money to people that you do not agree with how they live their lives period full stop in there right so

now once you've said that then you can start to have some discussions with them that are very gentle and very life-giving and very correct and very direct very kind and very clear and it's like okay you know i've paid for all this stuff for you and truthfully i don't agree with the way you're living your life and i'm not willing to finance that going forward right and

so it's up to you if you want to do that i'm not being controlling i just want to let you know that i'm going to go ahead and do a reading of the will and you're not going to be in it as long as you're living this way whatever this way is if your kid's a heroin addict you sit down with them and go i'm not funding your heroine

but what you think that is unique is you articulated what that meant not it you're not vague no no i'm very clear very clear it's unbelievably detailed and it costs 25 000 dollars very clear it's ridiculous yeah the legal field fees on this were amazing but i just you know and and then we get to have this meeting once a year where we revisit and go oh by

the way remember what we said if you're going to manage money for god this is what managing money for god looks like first you got to be walking with him and you know and we do this kind of stuff and you don't get you know and so it's not we're not mad about it we feel a responsibility heroin addicts are socialists you know i mean it's like wow

this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day ecclesiastes 311 he has made everything beautiful

in its time he has also set eternity in

every human heart yet no one can fathom what god has done from beginning to end

agmandino said always do your best what

you plant now you will harvest later so i think it's good to revisit

that last call because it was not only highly entertaining but it was um but the concept needs to be talked about uh we tell everyone to get a will 100 everyone needs a will and i always tell people go ahead and have a reading of the will while you're alive yes uh meaning tell people what the flip's in it so that there's not some drama after you're dead

and and that because what ends up happening is you leave one of your kids as the executor and they have to execute what's in your will and other people that are or aren't in the will are mad at the executor and you and i should have been mad at you your executor to shoot your arrows and that's not cool yeah you need you need to go ahead

and take those arrows while you're alive look you're not in this because have some character right yeah you're not in this because and it takes it helps the family after your death

uh not be caught off guard and have all these unmet expect i thought they were gonna get a million dollars they got nothing or whatever they thought they're gonna get a hundred dollars they got nothing um or whatever right i mean so

go ahead and have a reading of the will meaning you tell people what's in the will okay if i pass away this brother and sister

are gonna be the guardians of our children this person over here is going to be the trustee of our life insurance proceeds to be given to those children according to our trust and just let you know that so that you know this other person over here that thought they were going to be managing both and getting either uh

they're they're well i wonder what i wonder why he didn't do you know well shut up you know i've already covered it while i was alive that's right so you have a reading of the will you do a will while you're alive you tell people what's up you tell them where the will is yeah where it physically is right and have multiple copies so it can be found um

and it properly executed and you go to mamabearlegalsform.com and you get one you do in 20 minutes if you don't have a complicated will uh now when you're filling this out you're going to discover the angst that that that precious lady has

and that it requires thought about how life works because you're planning your death it is the it is what your will is what

your will like like you have a will um

it's what i want to have happen that's my will upon my death my last the last thing i wanted to have happen my last will and i testify to that a testament and so then you sign it properly and it becomes a legal document the executor is not in charge they don't have free will they get to execute executor execute

that's what that means they execute what is in the will that's all they they're not allowed to do anything else they're allowed to just do what you said that's all they can do so you need to be real clear about what they're supposed to do very clear in there this is what goes to that and you need to update your will anytime there's a major life change you change states because wills are not federal law probate law is state law is not federal law it's state law and louisiana law is french based

uh you know uh and uh

you know very very different yeah we had to update ours when we moved yeah to new state and texas is uh it still thinks it's probably yeah so texas has got word laws uh california and uh florida very weird loss new york ridiculously weird laws most rest states are fairly similar but still change your will update your will if you change if you go through a divorce obviously you know you update your will but the premise is pretty simple you are not morally or spiritually obligated to leave the

work of your hands to your kin

to anybody you don't want to period yeah you're not obligated to leave it to anybody um and you're not a bad person if you don't do that by definition of having not done that right they're not entitled because they happen to have the same last name they're not entitled because they crossed your path somewhere um and so

you know my dad's my dad's third wife got everything it's your dad's money it's your dad's money he gets to decide that maybe she was better to him than you were or maybe yeah maybe there's some issues and you gotta grieve that yeah but that's not you know you don't get to decide i'm gonna fight it when you're invited if you want you're gonna lose yeah if the oil is put together right and you should lose because it's not his desire it's not his will that you

got the money so so tell me how you think about this

i may have been told by a counselor in my life that i'm hyper controlling no and i have this this which makes a great talk radio host by the way the best i have this fantasy about having money that i pass along and i'll be able to still pull strings and i don't even be here yeah good luck with that so there's part of me that says i'm going to

i want to i want to detail this sucker out and y'all are going to x y and then there's part of me that knows the futility of that and want to say i'm raising two good kids i've got a good charities i believe whatever the thing is and when i'm dead

it's how do you balance that well she's got a lot more commas than zeros than i did well what you've got to remember is that when you leave money substantial money it magnifies well whoever you leave it to all their good and all they're bad so whatever's wrong with your kid is going to be 10x and however generous they are is going to be 10x 10x right same thing with that charity

if they're if they're disorganized and chaotic and they get a bunch of money they're going to be 10x disorganized and chaotic they're not suddenly going to fix their deficits they're going to be magnified uh they weren't waiting on the extra money to clean up their act and and so uh you know whatever wherever you leave it so it's it's not necessarily a blessing and and so the extreme example

we used in that call is uh you you leave a heroin addict money you're gonna kill them because they're gonna od because they can finally afford it so you don't want to you don't want to curse people with your money with your money but money's not the curse the curse is you've magnified whatever's wrong and whatever is right yeah and so and you're not going to find any perfect organizations or any perfect kids

and you're not more spiritual if you left it to charity than if you left it inside your family you're still managing it for god if we're christians in either case and that's what we're called to do so how did you determine when you were doing yours how did you determine the character ethos that you wanted to wrap around this money after you're gone well i wanted them to be walking with god

and that also in our world involves handling money the way we teach because it's biblical principles okay and so to the extent that they're doing that while i'm here i'm comfortable with them being there and training them that their brother or sister decides to go off the ranch and wants to live on the back of a yacht and and not work uh which is not in the bible

and they'll wrap around that and hold them accountable yeah they're gonna go uh you're not getting any more money got you and they've got the tools to do it the way we structured the thing okay so um we're not gonna fund uh

i'm not name names but i mean crazy people in reality shows you put the names on them right right uh they're pitiful and i don't want to co i won't be the cause of the pitiful uh not in my lineage you know and and so

but i'm not obligated to leave it to charity because humans are bad because humans run charities so this is this is ridiculous people well if you were spiritual you'd leave it out of the church where some guy that doesn't know how to handle money is the pastor come on that's a bunch of crap or you raise three off the charts generous children like you have and you know that money is going to be magnified with

the generosity right and if they learn their lessons then the same thing will apply as they leave it to my grandkids or their grandkids they're not going to ruin one of them because if you fund one that's off track you're going to ensure they stay off track that's what it amounts to and that's a that's one being a charity a ministry a person yeah and and so

that's what you gotta look at in her case she's saying they became socialist meaning she thinks that their uh their political view of the world is way off base and she doesn't want to fund that and she and so and she disappointed a different yeah different ideology and so it's her money she can magnify what she wants to leave it too um conservative think tank i don't know

i mean you know whatever i don't know but um whoever wherever you

feel like is going to implement that but even remember then though there are people running that right and so the where the control breaks down is when we all you know the controlling from the grave the sense of control freak that you and i both share um breaks down is we realize that even having done all of that then it's still in god's hands because those kids can still just go crazy

they can do what they want yeah they can come back they can go away then come back then go away you know you could leave it to a ministry and then they lose their way and they completely leave orthodoxy and go some crazy direction with their theology and you go how credit i leave money those people it starts with an articulation of what do you want to see

this money magnify i love that yeah yeah because it's going to magnum it's going to magnify it loves it good discussion you guys and get your wills done people do will do a will this is the ramsay show we'll

be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 191. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 9, 2021)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:31 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life your money your work

your relationships we're talking life it all plays together i am ken coleman joined by my colleague john deloney and we are taking you through this hour of the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number it's a free call triple eight eight two five five

two two five and john we've got a full lobby here at ramsey solutions some fantastic people out there we've got some debt free screams coming up we got a teacher interview coming up we got people calling to get clarity coming up and uh it's always fun to be with you my friend thanks man you too looking forward to it it's good to see everyone out there yeah yeah great great group by

the way great reminder we are open if you want to come to nashville and uh the area and come a little south here in franklin uh check us out ramseysolutions.com let us know you're coming we've got uh free baked goods coffee you got your

iced coffees you got your i don't know do they have any juice over there yes they got the juice yes they got it yeah i got the juice do you but that's because i'm passionate about what i do that's what we say on the ken coleman show when you're living on purpose and working on purpose you got the juice i see in the it's not just a j-o-b john in

the health and wellness industry the juice steroids so it's cool man well i think anybody that's watching on youtube right now can take a quick gander at me and quickly certainly

i mean i don't think i'm gonna shock anybody with that statement if you hang on till hour three today good folks kid and i are gonna do push-ups push-ups that's right you know this desk is big enough for me to get on that end and i i'm short and i don't think hits you if we go head-to-head uh during the commercial break maybe we'll get that kelly's not sure kelly's long enough

but my self-esteem is not quite that long it's it's yeah i couldn't do it i could do that could you yeah i have no problem knocking out some push-ups all right but we're not gonna say that for the next segment all right triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna have a blast today you know why because we're gonna be diving in with you whether it's talking about your relationships toxicity at work hey am

i doing what i love how do i make more money what do i do with my budget how do i get out of debt this is all going somewhere that really

really matters and that's why this is going to be fun let's go to tallahassee florida to start it off chris joins us there chris you're on the ramsay show hey guys how's it going appreciate you having me we're having a blast what's up hey um quick question for you guys so i'm you know going through baby steps we were on the latter end of that um so

i got a structure to set on my co-payment coming up um this february and uh he's got 50 000 coming in and looking to see if i need to just send that you know max out the roth ira that that year and then put the rest and i got a son um put into his 529 kind of max that out and then put the rest towards the house or how would

you guys kind of split that up sounds like you're following the baby steps is that true yep so one well baby step are step

uh so this is going into four and five kind of a hybrid there um so we've got about with an employer match got about 12 percent going into the retirement um so what's the settlement

from um so i had a motorcycle accident um about 10 years ago now um so we got a payment this february and then i got a couple others um in five year batches out until i'm uh until i'm 40.

correct or no 250. oh okay all right all right so 250.

finish out the college fund uh because that's gonna accrue now you've knocked that step out completely and so the money you were putting into that now we start putting that towards the house and then the rest of the money that just so it's the same idea as the debt-free snowball here and so you just take that money finish out the college fund step that's there now it's fully funded

and it's going and now we re we take those funds and we knock out as much of the house as you can and with the understanding that no matter what your employment status is in five years you can get a hundred thousand dollar and it's check and that's you know the idea with all these steps is obviously to avoid having any any type of fallback or anything like that well yeah

but by the you you really are running as fast as you can towards paying your house off yeah knowing that regardless of where you are in five years that's gonna be what pays your house off right so i would front load those yeah front load your accounts on the front end here yeah because you've got a five year you're gonna be completely debt free completely paid up on your on your uh

529 you're gonna be where you need to be in five years regardless yeah um so man yeah the earlier you can get that stuff accruing interest yeah so just knock it the answer is knock out four and five yeah so knock them out and follow them and you're going to be fine you you don't need you've got a backup plan i mean just think about that just

the money he's going to put in his house if you fill a hard time you sell the house yeah there's so much equity in it and then you're debt free on on six anyway so yeah just follow it out don't overthink it and i think to speak to that what's the what's the psychology there of a guy who again he's just like me just like everybody else he's walking

this stuff out he's in great financial shape this settlement is only going to make it better but yet there's still fear should i spend this money we struggle so much with just how s

little we control in the world yeah how simple life is when we just play it out yeah right when we if we can just put our head in the mind of the tortoise and just take little steps one after the other and so yeah it's 50 000 come on just follow the plan man and it feels like we're not doing enough it feels like well i gotta be doing more

and this is a bit just keep following that plan and can i can't tell you how many times i've tried to short-circuit it hey i'll just do double the workouts today yeah and that'll get me double the in shape tomorrow it just makes me so sore you can't move right yeah so i'm i'm not the licensed psychologist

i don't have the training you do but when i'm talking to people like this on the ken coleman show and we get a question like this i'm gonna go okay let's just lay this out what's the fear name the thing you're afraid of well i lose my job can i i think that's important would you agree with that so it's really you know i'm not going to make chris do that

because chris is in great shape but it's almost like chris and if anybody's like chris what are you really scared of what's the name the way i say it is write it down i love it and then demand evidence from it yeah are you seriously yeah the worst mom oh we said this yeah are you put it on the witness stand yep you're not right are you really too overweight for someone to love

you no you're not i love you are you seriously gonna be broke in five years by following baby steps yeah no you're not yeah most of the time if you demand evidence from your fears you realize you've been lying to yourself right right and then accept the truth and focus on

the truth hey i got this we're gonna do this take a deep breath and keep on moving let me tell you what we're gonna do we're gonna keep on broadcasting life-changing radio don't move this

is the ramsay show

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life is full of firsts

[Music] as the first and longest serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more firsts

[Music]

welcome back america you have joined the conversation here on the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined with my colleague john dalone we're taking your questions about your life your work your relationships and

we are here for you i just feel like somebody needs to call today you're going i've thought about it before i think today's the day well let's go triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five well it's april john and you know around here that's a big big month for ramsey solutions because it's national financial literacy month

and with all of our involvement with ramsey ed ramsey education solutions in america schools we do our teacher appreciation giveaway it's sponsored by mint mobile the affordable premium wireless provider and because of the dedicated teachers across the country our foundations in personal finance curriculum is teaching students how to save avoid debt and pay cash for things like cars and college it's changing family trees helping kids

not maybe make the mistakes that their parents and grandparents made and we love these testimonies so teachers anybody listening if you're a teacher we want you to enter today for a chance to win some awesome prizes like five thousand dollars in

cash you can use that however you like go to ramseysolutions.com teacher that's ramsey solutions.com

teacher and you've got to enter by april

the 30th if you're not a teacher share this with a teacher

in your life and one of the things we love to do here on the ramsay show is highlight the unbelievable

impact that the teachers who engage with us uh and teach foundations and personal finance in their school and and the impact they make and so we are going to go to uh amanda who joins us on the line

uh she is at temple high school in the atlanta georgia area amanda you're on the ramsay show

hi guys thanks for talking with me what's whereabouts in the atlanta areas temple high school well we're not really in atlanta it's temple georgia but we're really close we're about if you go i-20 west we're about 40 minutes outside oh yeah yeah sure sure i got you all right very good and uh this is a public school i'm looking here with 627 kids enrolled and you've been a teacher for how many years this is my 14th year wow and how long have you been teaching foundations in uh personal finance eight

wow so how did you come across

dave ramsey or our curriculum

yeah so i'm kind of a lifer i'm kind of a fan girl for dave and john it's good to talk to you because i had the pleasure of talking with you last week on your show it hasn't aired yet but i'm excited to hear that back yeah it's great to talk to you i first

went through spu as a college kid and then my husband and i took it again in fact we missed our very first week of class on our honeymoon so like the second we got married we went through it again and i've led nine fpu classes i think

now to the church and it's just so exciting to bring this content to the high school kids so fun so when you first brought it to

the school what was that like getting it started take it to the early days eight years ago of beginning this process of teaching this yeah well i kind of get to start over again this is my first year at temple so i brought it with me when i came over and it's been so exciting to share this with these kids because we had financial literacy here but it wasn't the ramsay content and just the the content just makes it so relatable and easy to grasp ideas

that are so counter cultural to what they're being told you know i've had tons of parents react in lots of different ways some are excited and they're emailing me saying hey send me your tax information stuff because i'm about to do my taxes and and i want to make sure i'm doing a ride or or you know send me the the chapter you taught on budgeting like can

i talk to you about that but then i've also had parents at a previous system that said i don't know what you're teaching my kid but i don't want them to be in your cult you know so i mean it's kind of you know it's very different you know having to to approach the kids with with these ideas and knowing that they're so different than what they're hearing at home yeah that's fantastic

so penis paint us a picture of the last year or two for the average teacher

um there was a forced giggle if i've ever heard one utter chaos to be honest um i i have

several friends that have left the industry

and and i have several that you know myself included where i feel like i'm in my sweet spot even more now than i was before you know to use ken's language so um

it's it's weird it's it's hard it's challenging we have i teach business and financial so you know there are things that covet has affected positively for our young people

uh as far as the way they approach the workforce the the the doors that are now open with you know virtual working and working from home and this is that that i i kind of have a new curriculum to teach you know how to do business and finance

in this new world you know when the banks are closed well how do you do online thinking you know things like that so um it's it's challenging but it's

forced us to be creative sounds like you are a teacher who's been in the business that i used to teach as well at a public high school and man after one year it's easy just to say okay i've already got that lesson done and i'm just gonna i'm gonna coast and it sounds like you are a teacher who's so invested in the changed outcomes for your in your students lives that

you are somebody who's constantly revising constantly trying to find new things constantly challenging yourself and that's exhausting and frustrating and annoying but it's the it's the rich part of the gig too absolutely for sure i'm so glad you make

me happy that my kids are in the community in a public school because there's teachers like you millions of you everywhere across the country doing extraordinary work i'm so grateful for you you are joining our conversation with amanda wilson who is a teacher at temple high school in temple georgia and she teaches our foundations in personal finance curriculum and we are honoring her for uh financial literacy month and amanda i want to ask you take us to a story that pops up top of your heart uh about a kid or maybe multiple kids

that got this stuff and and did something really cool with it or they you saw the change really stick and as a result some great results yeah well this is the first year i've been with this group of students so the longevity stories i don't really have a lot of those but what i am starting to see because i'm still in the same community as the school i came from is that now i've kind of started a side

hustle ministry on i mean i'm not charging for it but my previous financial babies would come back and they're like okay i just graduated nursing school and i got a 35 000 bonus what do i do now you know and so they'll call me and say hey can i get you coffee can we talk about my budget or can i how do i do this and so it's kind of started a little ministry counseling thing

once a student always a student and so they know that there's always a safe place for them to come back and ask questions and and get advice and things like that and and that's what's so powerful is that i'm i'm teaching this to adults i'm living this in my family we're on baby step six um in fact yesterday my husband and i paid cash for our dave car one new car um tell us about that

what kind of car come on we got to brag a little bit you earned it well it's modest it's a 2017 ford explorer but it's got all the bells and so many

whistles

oh my gosh i didn't know how bad my own car was i thought it was okay and so i got in a new one you know what here's the thing though it was okay you made it work that's what i want people to hear you made it work uh and it is okay and yet now you're in

a place where you earned it amanda let me just say on behalf of john and our entire uh ramsey solutions team

we're proud to be associated with men and women like you who are giving of yourself beyond the classroom you are truly leaving a legacy so thank you for joining us on the call thank you for what you do well it's my pleasure and thank you for all the great content i look forward to seeing you guys at summit virtually hey come on all right that's going to be a lot of fun well john

i mean that's what it's about yeah let's not forget that we did some study here at ramsey solutions and the third largest group of net worth millionaires in the united states our teacher and after having been a teacher and my wife's been a teacher for years they don't make billionaire money they make millionaire decisions great every single day great statement love that all right john delaney ken coleman here with

you on the ramsey show don't move because i'm looking out in the lobby and i see ourselves a great couple who's going to be doing a debt-free screen don't move we're coming right back [Music]

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welcome back to the ramsey show america thrilled to have you with us as we talk about your life your work money relationships

how to live to the fullest live like no one else so that you can give like no one else dr john deloney joins me i'm ken coleman we're ramsey's ramsey personalities we both have our own shows the ken coleman show and the dr john delaney show on the ramsey network and we're taking you through this hour in the lobby of ramsey solutions

world headquarters are jacob and heather welcome hello ken hey dr john what's up where are you guys from saint louis missouri all right all right and uh you're here because you're dead for debt-free that's fun so

let's learn how much you paid off tell us the number we paid off 155 and 900

wow and how long did it take you to do that four years and one month four years in one month so you'll ground it down huh yeah yes we did i love the specificity always of these stories hey when you go five years it is just every month counts

exactly right and uh range of income

um so we started around a hundred thousand um and then we're at about 125 000 now oh nice what'd you do to bump it up uh job changes and a lot of overtime yeah

what do you both do i'm a nurse and i'm a letter carrier for the post office nice so you you were racking some overtime as well for the usps yes i was okay how crazy was it during uh during the covet um parcel wise it was really crazy but

other than that it wasn't other than that all right good now what type of debt are we talking about we paid off our mortgage was the only

debt you had it was the only time we had wow okay so

what happened uh so here we go let's see four years one month ago you guys go on this journey how did this come about um we bought a we got married and what every married couple does is they go and buy a house it was an impulse buy it was the first thing i've ever impulse bought and i immediately felt terrible about it it was a house um wow i imposed by like dorito tacos

that's really impressive yeah so we knew that we needed to get things together and how long you been married um four years yeah okay so you got married bought a house and then looked at each other went oh no

were you familiar with dave ramsey ramsay solutions i mean where did this guilt come from within moments of walking inside the home um so when i was little my aunt had a total money makeover book at her house but i don't they never really followed so i kind of knew the name but other than that he started listening

right after we bought the house actually and he started talking to me about the principles which made sense um i was always raised if you

don't have cash you don't buy it and so i mean to us that made sense and you were already there yourself you were like i don't like this 155 000 okay yeah interesting so what was the decision

like to actually get after this so yeah i know you made this decision okay we're going to do this then how did it begin to change things what did you start doing um it was pretty slow to start because actually of me i had just

cash flowed my second degree and i was making decent money for the first time in a while and i wanted to spend it

i get that yeah so i i was a little slow

to get on board but i thought i'd be a good wife and if you wanted to do this we could put a little bit of money each month and then then we bought a hot tub yeah we bought a hot tub um and then but you paid cash but we paid cash for the hot tub i don't want to totally beat yourself up over there yeah um

if you get a nursing degree you get a hot tub that's a new dave that's it that's baby step 4.3 why not okay all right all right um so i mean

from there we had pmi and once we paid off that pmi

i really got on board and we actually ended up putting my entire income towards that from that point forward wow yeah cause i was gonna say this is a tremendous amount here i mean this is getting with it i mean was it rice and beans beans and rice did you go that far we actually like rice and beans yeah we uh canceled we didn't have tv or just but you had a hot tub we sold everything that wasn't kneeled down except for the hot dogs i'm going to tell you this john if i've got a hot tub i'm going to be okay with no tv and rice and beans because i can at least eat rice and beans in the house in the hot tub and then you all had to do weird married things like just talk to one another go for walks and hikes and hang out in the hot tub i mean because you weren't just gonna sit there and scroll mindlessly through some streaming service right right so my guess is four years later after putting in all that sweat equity and tear equity your marriage is better too yeah yeah yeah we we've definitely come a long way yeah so talk to other couples what's the key no matter what their story is what's the key to getting on board together and sticking with it [Music] i think you have to have a common goal and if you have a common goal and it's worth sacrificing for you can do it if you believe you can do it and you have that common goal how old are you two 30 30 30.

and the mail's not going to stop coming and people are going to stop going to hospitals and so what's next um we'd like to start working towards self-employment uh eventually right now we're just gonna start saving just save all right this is what i want to hear because this is what i do i try to help people achieve their dreams right get promoted get that dream job

and work like no one else i want to know what's the dream there working for yourself you allow you can you share that you got you got you got at least a a fuzzy version of that dream um owning i think mainly real estate real estate well now you're set up that's stacking money okay good that's fantastic talk to us about your support system along the way

when a couple decides to do this and and live really differently and take one person's entire income and put it towards debt that's a little strange who is your support system really just each other no one really knew we were on this journey or really what do you think about that doc i think these two are gangsters that's what i think i it's the quiet ones it's

the mail carrier that's walking around with the paid off house right or it's the nurse who smiles a little bit more because she's got a little less stress in her life that's incredible you two yeah incredible is right wow unbelievable parents on board your friends just kind of laugh and make fun of you yeah yeah they would pretty much just say well why would you want to do that yeah interesting

and so tell us about

a heart i mean the last year has been rough on nurses really rough everybody gets off a shift

and they're all going to just what the closest margarita shop there is and you say oh i'm going home exactly to sit in my hot tub and that was the goal have yet another burrito what do you say um i mean

i always encourage people to do it and i think people don't really understand the value which is surprising to me but i think it's worth it yes it absolutely you two are free we're free yes four years in you're free incredible and now moving steadily towards dreaming and making those dreams a reality so good so good what a great story all right you guys ready you've been you've been warming up i'm ready you look ready get the hands held there we go look at that couple folks it is jacob and heather

from st louis missouri they paid off 155

thousand dollars nine hundred fifty five thousand nine hundred dollars in four years and one month making a hundred k

to 125 000

jacob and heather take it away let's hear your debt free scream three two one we're debt-free

yes there it is and they

are look at that

look at that young couple that's the finish line and and that's what we love about the debt free street it's the finish line yet it's the starting line a whole new race right whole new race and they can walk they can run they can just head off into the woods they do it whatever they want they hop off the trail lay under a tree for a couple days

i don't want to blow by this because i have a tendency to do this i see somebody who buys an makes an impulse purchase again not everyone impulse buys a house they did to this debt-free screen

there's digital confetti falling behind them right all that in between is four years

of monthly grinding annoyances

frustrations squeezing the last little bit of lotion out of the tube because we don't have it in the budget to go get some more and you're thinking i make so much money why don't you do this but you keep going and keep going and keep going so so worth it take a little step in a little step in a little step in four years you can look up you're gonna be

there do what you have to do john so that you can do what you want to do and this applies to money as well that's why the baby steps work so great what a great young couple all right john and i are going to go out and high five them congratulate them and then we're coming right back this is the ramsay show

[Music]

ramsay show continues i'm ken coleman joined by dr john dolone as we take your calls we are a ranch personalities and a part of the ramsey network dr john deloney show fabulous show

new episodes every monday wednesday and friday on youtube and you can get them anywhere you listen to podcasts and the ken coleman show syndicated on 70 plus stations around the country siriusxm and on youtube monday through friday as well just search the ken coleman show on youtube and uh wherever podcasts are available and so john uh john you focus on

mental emotional health it's relationship health i mean just all across pretty much everything pretty much everything and i'm focused on helping people do what they were created to do simply put we believe that you were created to work now that sounds gross for some of you when i say created to contribute that starts to hit a nerve everybody wants to make a difference john and it turns out that some of

the stuff you cover and some of the stuff i cover interconnects a good bit with toxicity in the workplace so if you're in a situation you're going i need my job dude i'm walking the baby steps but i don't know if i can hang on any longer give us a shout give us a shout i would love that and i want to ask you something ken so

i was reading something a few weeks ago and this author she's brilliant she was talking about and tell me if you see this on your show what we used to as a society we used to have our small little village and the small little village gave us our central values it gave us the the cultural norms what was cool what's not cool here's how we talked that

and then it shifted to on a larger scale

our religious communities said here's here's our general set of values here's who we talk how we talk to another whatever and now we're in this completely decentralized universe and we are trying to get cultural and collective values from our workplace and so we are all going to work and trying to find this sense of purpose and the sense of value in the sense of what should i be dressing

and how do we all talk together and every business has a different culture and every place and so it's just decentralizing everything but it goes back to this idea and i hadn't thought of it in my head we are putting a lot into this idea of

work we're getting a lot of value purpose

meaning this isn't just about earning a check anymore making sure that we got food on the table this is about answering questions like who am i and what's my role here right yeah that's new and different it feels like no i don't think it is i don't think so no genesis chapter 2 makes it pretty clear that we were created to work that work is something that we do um and so i think that that men and women throughout history have longed to make a difference in their world

and i i think purpose comes down to two areas in our life relationally and professionally you you cover a relationship i cover the professional side of things and what i mean by that is that your identity and your value as a human being has nothing to do with the size of your salary right or the notoriety

attached to your work but as it relates to significance and contributing to the world it matters

deeply and so when you spend you know if there's a reason why torture the the the the evil nazis that

the torture was to have prisoners move one pile of

rocks from one side of the prison camp to the other just futility huh yeah that's that's that is not a physical torture there even though that's hard work that was an emotional psychological psychological torture there's no meaning in what i'm doing and so if you spend your whole life 35 40 years doing a job that you

don't have any passion for you don't love the work itself and the work itself doesn't create a result that you

connect to then that's then that's the issue so in what she's saying if she's saying look we're putting too much into our title just that

don't under um don't undersell how important work is don't understand how important cultural fit don't understand how important we're putting a lot in there well the reason is is because we long to make a difference and so the ramsey solutions world view of work is that you were created to work you don't

work to live the secular world view of where just the general world view of work is that i just work to get a paycheck to be able to cover the basics and if i'm fortunate enough to make more than that and i can have some toys and make some additional memories awesome but it's not a utilitarian function that's not the cause of work so is it this is i never thought of this question is it my responsibility to bring meaning to my job or vice versa for instance if i

if someone is listening to this and they are the assistant director of the mail room and the large office complex where they work they don't make a huge salary but without them this business does not operate yeah so is it their responsibility to say to find the meeting and what they're doing well they need it's not a responsibility it's a reality okay any job everybody that i'm looking

at on our team everybody in here their job does matter

well yeah we could just run our mouths all day nobody's gonna we're nothing without them yeah the question is does the job matter

deeply to them and so that's your responsibility so you need to understand the reality is is that a job does matter somebody needs to do it if you're doing it but it's okay that it's not your ultimate dream job right now it's where you are and you're working your way up maybe you're getting out of debt whatever your situation but ultimately what we're teaching is and what i believe is you need to be in a job that matters deeply to you all the work

matters but does it matter deeply to you that's why we talk about talent passion and mission coming together so let's put it this way if a human being spends their whole work career just doing something they're good at they'll be successful okay they'll

deliver results and get paid probably get promoted if they do something they're good at that's talent and something they love to do

just the work itself there'll be some deep satisfaction there but if they do something they're good at that's talent and they and they do something they love that's passion and then that work that they're doing also creates results that fills their heart they go that matters really deeply to me i like producing these results there's a personal connection to these results that's mission now we're talking about significance in a person they begin to see the significance of their contribution to the world has nothing to do with success or satisfaction or even can you have a

mission that is can go from job to job

sure once you land there once you know your purpose and mission yeah that's what i teach you stay in your sweet spot the rest of your life yeah but you're still moving up yeah and that and by the way that that kind of helps some folks the dream job's not just one thing

by the way it's not just one career it's

who you're going to be wherever you go are you using your talent to perform

work that you love passion to produce results that matter deeply to your mission so i could see a person go from and i get this call at the time of the cold show we could get somebody a teacher that goes hey i want to i want to move out of being an elementary teacher and i want to go into corporate training let's just break that down so

if you're talented as a teacher what are the talents you got to have does that cross over to being a trainer yes the work you love as a teacher is that work also something that you love as a trainer yes that's instruction they love instruction the research the instructing the guiding if you will and then what are the results that matter to you well if it's teaching

and educating a child or just mentoring a child or giving a child a bump yeah but if you're doing that in the corporate world same thing so it's like a litmus test of hey as long as i'm doing this type of work i know that i'm doing what i was created to do and therefore you can do that anywhere anywhere and it's not about money you'll make money

and you'll have enough money which is why again teachers are the third largest group of net worth millionaires why well because they're they they've gone to significance and satisfaction and success have come along with it because they had altered their lifestyle to fit their mission to fit the mission

you just broke it all down i didn't look at me well you just interviewed me but that's the deal there yeah so here's the deal let's talk about where you come into this we get calls when you come on my show and some of the calls we could take today folks if you feel like you're in a toxic workplace you're going i need my job to get out of

the baby steps i need the shuffle i need the big shovel i'll talk big shovel with you but we could talk about that what's that look like one of the things we fall into all the time we get these calls i'm doing something i love but i can't stand the place i'm doing it and we say it's doing the right thing in the wrong place you can be in that sweet spot that

we just had fun talking about and be in a toxic work environment an

abusive environment co-workers maybe a leader who's just a toxic leader and you can hate going in everything you want to talk about confusion yeah that's confusion absolutely and there's no need so let's help you get clear we'll take those calls and take your money calls john ben fun hour our producer ben hill our associates at kelly daniel thank you most of all let's thank you america because you're why we do the show this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermzyshow.com

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life your money your work career

your relationships mental emotional health we're going to cover it all because it all matters in relation to you being who you

are created to be i'm ken coleman host of the ken coleman show which is on the ramsey network and my colleague is dr john dolone he's holds up the dr john deloney show on the ramsay network as well and we are here for you this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five so question i get a lot on

the ken coleman show uh can i switch jobs during the baby steps the answer is yes many times it's the promotion you need and the financial boost so i'm gonna help you with some big shovel stuff uh john's gonna hey you know a lot of times people can't get through the baby steps because of relational and emotional issues all kinds of stuff mental health uh john and i'll team up

if you're in a toxic work environment what to do and john and i team up on that so i want you to know that you can ask those questions and of course your money questions we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five let's start it off this hour in sarasota florida where jamie joins us jamie you're on the ramsay show good afternoon gentlemen how are

you guys today we're having a blast what's going on with you wonderful well thank you so much for uh everything that you do to help uh everyone that listens to y'all

um so here's my situation and uh

i'm 39 uh married

i'm uh i have a child and i have a two-year-old and another one that is due in july so i'm already uh we are already i should say on baby step seven wow i and by

nature oh you know we uh obviously we or maybe said seven we have already you know money and savings and everything uh by nature i um i am naturally

stingy i am and i want to become more

generous so i am wondering what would be some practical ways to become more generous so that i can because in baby step 7 is talking about giving so how can i be generous and smart at the same time with

the finances that i have man i love that question jamie i love your heart dude so why why are you stingy i was

i grew up kind of um always uh

how do i say this kind of thinking that i didn't have enough you know and i never lacked anything but i also never um

i always thought you know i'm always thinking for the future for the future kind of like how you guys teach you know and i'm already thinking about you know my kids braces and their college tuition and all that kind of stuff um my wife on the other hand she's extremely generous sometimes i think she's a little too generous where people take advantage of but i want to

be generous and you know smart at the same

time because sometimes people take advantage of generous people uh but you know i guess this is the reason why i'm asking this question so it sounds like beneath the

because you're clearly smart you're 39 you're a millionaire right you know how math works and you're very disciplined and you're intentional yet but maybe almost there okay so it sounds like

beneath the fear

that i think any rational person has is i'm not gonna have enough that's a that's a base fear that people have you mentioned several times this this idea of uh being taken advantage of that somebody's going to pull it over on you and where does that come from

you've been taken advantage of before yes actually um and it's because uh you know

it's funny because it actually happened um uh you know not so much with friends

but mainly with family um you know where

we extend the hand and um you know we

kind of felt maybe in the past that we have um gotten pooped on and pardoned my expression but you know

uh though those things have really kind of marked us and you know we know that obviously we know we need to we realize the importance of setting boundaries but um you know but it's the whole idea

of you know of giving you know for me it's something that i want to get to a point where it's just so you know so free in that

sense you know and without obviously being a little too free to get what i'm saying so here's here's two two two things to think through

a guy named mitch changed my life when it came to giving back in college that's back when we had nothing and um

he had a little bit better job and he was a little bit better with his money and one morning some kid came and knocked on the door and said you know fill in the blank we're selling something or we need some money for down the street whatever and mitch said hang on i don't have any

cash but hold on and i wrote him a check a sizable check

and everyone in the house you know a bunch of college knuckleheads and i was like oh he's gonna take that money and go do this or that and i'll never forget what mitch said he said well that's on him my gift

was he gave me a need and

my gift was fulfilled an obligation i

had in my heart to help and if somebody wants to take advantage of me that's going to be between them and the mirror not me and then there's a second thing which is and i've learned this by sitting by dave there is an intentionality there is a point when you start enabling people and so like you talked about with family and boundaries right so when you know you're actually participating in somebody hurting themselves or hurting other people whether it's through supporting addiction or whether it's fill in

the blank then you have an obligation to stop so if i'm in your seat i'm going to do two things number one i'm going to sit down with my wife and be have a dreaming session who are people we would love to serve help what gets us going ken talks about passion when it comes to work what are we passionate about serving other people something in your life

it may be people who get taken advantage of maybe that's where your passion is what is that thing you can contribute to in your community the second thing is i would set some relatively aggressive goals and then the third thing is this and i'm making these up off top of my head brother is i want to feel and see that transaction you know where i get the greatest joy is

when i am at a restaurant and i see somebody working like bananas yeah she is working so hard he's working so hard and i'm gonna obnoxiously tip that person i'm going to blow my budget for the whole month but i'm going to tip like crazy and you just watch them look at that check my heart feels good but i know that their their their electric bill is taking care of that month

because of that one meal that's when you start seeing the impact in your soul and in their soul when it comes to giving jamie i just got to add i think john gave you some great things here but but remind remind yourself that you've been burned with family and you are talking about setting boundaries and set the boundaries and know that you're not going to make that you're going to make that mistake again

so be free from that you're free you know what that's like going to do it again second thing i would mention is i think john is right and i was going to say i would encourage you today or tomorrow your favorite drive-through place just pay just start small and build this muscle because you're scared and you don't trust people if you want to get over stingy start small here's what

i want you to do next drive through say hey person behind

me how much is their deal i'm going to take care of the next time you go to a restaurant your bill's 50 bucks tip 100 on top yeah do something small that you can see and begin to feel that positive chemical that gets released when you go oh that was really fun and then just kind of build up

just start giving don't think just give

don't move more ramsay show coming right [Music]

up

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[Music] the ramsay show continues from our ramsey solutions studios in nashville thrilled to have you with us i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dilloni and we're taking you through this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh john you know this

i'm talking to people every day that are stuck and disengaged in their current job and uh ramsey solutions is a solution for

that if you're searching for a new job uh our get hired live stream event brought to you by yours truly tuesday april the 27th is for you it's a one night event tuesday april 27th 8 eastern 7 central you'll learn how to get clear on what you do best get qualified for the job you want and get connected to job opportunities and this is for people that are starting out

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eastern seven central get hired hear from our ramsey solutions world headquarters let's go to scott who joins us in las vegas nevada scott how can we help hi guys so

i have a situation where i have

a 16 year old truck i paid it off in 2010 and my dad always told me hey start saving so when you get you have to buy and purchase a new truck or a new car uh you need to pay it out outright so i'm at a point right now where my truck is kind of it's older it's it's i feel like every year can maybe something can happen but i also owe 100 about 157 000 on my

mortgage and i'm wondering if i just what's the best route is it to maybe possibly put that money towards my mortgage and i'm talking about i have about almost a hundred thousand dollars in my savings and i have about 35 i'd say about 35 for emergency

uh and the rest i would you know i was going to put down a truck or put down a car eventually but i wanted to know like what's the best route to go dude go buy a truck and then pay the rest down on your house man you're overthinking this that's it

you got 100 000 in the bank you know what that makes you a unicorn yeah above and beyond your emergency fund i'm assuming you have no debt correct the only bit i have is my house yeah that's right yeah i understand that but other than that so yeah john's right what are you worried about well i don't well so i mean my truck is fine but i feel like

it could die at any minute right like yeah well oh scott scott scott if your truck dies at any moment you got a hundred grand sitting in the bank there's absolutely zero to worry about

okay do you i mean like you wanted

one time my wife bought a corolla and we

agreed that when the corolla finally died i could get a new car did you still early no you know why because you can't kill a corolla oh it will be true it will be what they drive after the apocalypse corolla right somewhere a toyota executive is writing that down you can't i'm just telling you so i got to a point where i'd get in it every morning and go please don't start please don't start doing it is that where you're at scott i mean it

is and so here's but here's the grand here's my thing though is like i know i want to get eventually i want to get a tesla cyber truck whenever those come out okay that's not going to be like two or three years so i'm hoping my truck lasts that long right so i'm hoping on

that but that's what i mean is like do should i just start and that's my question should i just start focusing on putting money towards my my home payment and then eventually you know but i wouldn't buy a hundred thousand dollar truck until my house was paid off yeah it's not that it's like 60 something thousand same same difference yeah it's a lot of money yeah so here's yeah scott buddy go get something or keep driving

this thing and then put it let let's do this here's what i'd like to see you do because i i think he needs real direction yeah let's get a hundred thousand dollars burning a hole in your pocket seriously i think and you're frustrated that you drive kind of yeah a beater truck yeah and you got a hundred thousand dollars yeah so so if you're frustrated you've got

the money to go buy it but go buy something that retains its value pretty decently and then uh and then if you if you can afford the tesla thing down the road uh then you're going to get most of your money back or you're going to get a good chunk back you know so if you buy a one of those toys what are those toyota trucks that just hold their value for fundraising tundras tacomas

you know look dude here's the deal i'd pay the house off i i would pay a big chunk down on the house you got the emergency fund in place because now you're really stacking money um so just walk the baby steps out and stop thinking about this but yeah if you want to go buy a nice car go buy a nice car my goodness gracious what's the psychology

there john i think he's got a hundred thousand dollars burner holmes pocket i think he doesn't want to spend it though yeah but you're getting that mick like i've had that where it's the kind of an uppity feeling i drive an old truck and i think i got a nice j what am i doing and then i got to go back to say this truck's great it's getting me where

i need to be i've got other goals right my goal as a reverse of his i want to pay my house off first right so i'm gonna try to and by the way nothing wrong with the truck he said nothing's wrong with the truck so keep driving the truck just wants it to what do i do if it dies

get another one you got a hundred grand scott he needs to take a couple deep breaths you got a breathing regimen for him yeah it's just he's tight man it's just that's right

again one of those not too complex things yeah fantastic they can go get the wemhop app and uh learn how to breathe triple eight eight two five five two two five you're listening to the ramsey show let's go north of the border toronto ontario where vinnie joins us vinnie you're on the ramsay show hi how are you guys doing oh we're having a blast what's up vinny so yeah my situation is um

i'm basically a recent college graduate i got twenty thousand dollars in debt uh the thing is that i'm since the pandemic it's been a struggle trying to get a job and everything so you know i've been always trying to you know go get into real estate investing it's been like my dream goal not my dream goal but like one of the things i really want to do

and you know the situation that i'm in right now it's pretty like you know i would say like it's losing my confidence on a daily basis so i'm just wondering like what like i'm just trying to get some sort of advice out here you know in order for me to deal with the situation well first of all don't attach your confidence to and your ability to eventually be a real estate investor to your current situation

so your situation vinnie is not your sentence this isn't a life sentence you're not a loser all of a sudden because you're recently out of college and you got student loan debt you're having a hard time get a job you need to separate those two number one and then let's get serious about getting hired if it's two or three part-time jobs just to get yourself some momentum right now

the quickest way to get out of a rut is to get busy is to do something but sitting around and commiserating

not that not that that's what you're doing but just sitting around and soaking in your frustration is not the way to move forward get to work start making some money follow the baby steps knock the 20 000 out a young guy like you should be able to do that sacrifice big time john what would you add to that vinny do you want to get into real estate

so you can try to short circuit the deal you're going to borrow some money grab a house flip it try to earn that cash and then roll and roll is that what you're talking about yeah that like yeah flipping it and all that stuff yeah yeah but you got to do that with cash here's what's gonna happen you're gonna go buy three properties you're gonna leverage yourself to

the hilt the market's lost its freaking mind and then you're gonna it's gonna roll over on you and you're gonna be bust yeah the market right now here in toronto is messed up like it's uh dude that's always just one no listen brother you're way you're years away from real estate investing i don't want to be the the guy that has feelings but you're way far away right now

you need to learn if you want to go sell houses and get a real estate license and go work in a real estate office and learn how the thing works

listen to what he just said vinnie that's the deal you learn the business but brother yes don't go take a bunch of loans out and try to roll some houses over because it's going to roll right on top of you and you're going to be bust go pay your loans off and scratch and claw and scratch the clock ken gave you the best psychological advice when you get in a rut go do something yeah don't just sit there vinny get to work three part-time jobs six part-time jobs pay the debt off get

qualified if you want to be in real estate use the proximity principle hang on the line kelly let's give him a copy of my book start getting around people that are doing what you want to do but you better do it the cash way that means you got to get to work and work for a while and sell a bunch of houses save all that money buy a ca a house

cash and begin that process you can get

there but you're gonna have to work your way there vinnie come on man get out of the house get to work don't

move this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john delonia we're taking you through this hour of the ramsey show find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best deal today's question there you

go from barbara in virginia john all right barbara asks my husband and i are debt-free except for a zero percent car loan of thirteen thousand dollars should we pay it off or continue with the 548 dollar a month payment

we are retired and have monthly income of six thousand dollars our retirement portfolio is one million dollars yes paid off yesterday and then be done

the only thing i wish you would have done in reading that was do the dr evil 1 million dollars yeah simple

because here's the thing it's not a you're not playing a math game you're a millionaire yeah you're paying you're playing a how many change are hitched behind me how many people am i subject to and right now you are willingly subject to a bank for no financial reason not because you have to not because you're stuck not because you don't have enough money you're just choosing every week to be indebted to a bank

and at that point it your dollar amount doesn't make any sense yeah good stuff there triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to orlando florida where chuck is on the line chuck how can we help hey how are you guys

what's going on hey uh my

two ac systems in the house uh are about

12 years old and they tell me from about 10 to 15 that they're gonna die uh-oh and uh it's gonna run about

dollars 11 replace them and uh

i have um i have a good savings account and i have some stock so my question is should i pay it all off or you know finance consider financing it i just don't know don't finance the air conditioning just just do not do that how much do you have in savings uh about 12 000. okay do you have any

other debt uh no i'm debt-free except for the mortgage okay is that 12 000 include your emergency fund or is that above that uh it does it does okay well that's why

we have stock how much in stock 46 000

just in single stocks or company stock uh single stocks uh i i invest myself

okay yeah i would actually sell the single stock and roll that into an emergency fund of some sort and then you've got your twelve thousand dollars to um pay your air conditioners off and then you owe nobody any money you're not gonna take a loan out on a depreciating asset which would be the air conditioners the day you put them in are gonna start losing value what's your income chuck what do you bring home uh about 60 a year okay and uh

how much based on your budget right now how much are you putting away a month or how much could you if you move the budget around a little bit how much could you put away each month towards the ac replacement fund

um well

i die geez

probably that's a good question probably

four or five hundred dollars all right i think you got a couple options there right we you know range of solutions we don't you know we're not saying that you know being in stocks is evil or wrong we just don't recommend it because it's a real roller coaster you can get hurt uh so i think john gave you a great option but i just wanted you to to have in your mind wait a second if i could put 400 a month away right now the units are working correct

um yes they are yeah so well yes and no

uh actually the uh inside unit is uh

got a slow leak on it oh they went ahead and charged it a couple of days ago and um so it's on its way out yeah but

let me but let me say this i've been down this road before i've owned four houses now and i've had this happen and here's what i know about text they'll come out there and they'll tell you all the things wrong with it's like the mechanic doesn't mean they're evil but that's just the way they roll and they go this thing's gonna die somewhere between uh year 12

and year or whatever and all of a sudden what does that do our emotions go oh my gosh the clock is ticking well first of all the tech doesn't know exactly when it's going to die or he wouldn't be doing

hvac repair all right he'd be in the prediction business second thing is even though that hose is leaking you know there's i like to always ask okay i get it i get that i'm going to have to replace this can i fix that but how much is it going to cost to fix the hose and keep that going because if we could keep that going and extend the life of this thing with some uh every once in a while repairs that's

not going to be a big financial hit to you you've got the emergency fund for that very reason and if you begin to save 400 bucks a month to replacing one of those units well you can do the math you know you know how quickly you can get there and and begin at least take care of one i seriously doubt that both are going to quit the same day

so i just don't want you to act out of fear is my point let's act out of facts what are the facts right now and let's go that direction and chuck here here's a an interesting way to think of it following ken's line of thinking you can either start saving money on your own now or you can finance this thing and pay that same money on the back end to somebody else i'd much rather own my own destiny in that in that scenario yeah right

and again john's advice was

really good you've got stock yeah if i'm you if i if yeah if i'm in your situation i sell the stock tomorrow i it's everything's rocking and rolling i sell the stock i've got emergency fund there is no no drama in my house and then i'd i'd probably just go ahead and replace them yeah call it good yeah if that's if that's if you're really worried about

it but you know you're not getting hopefully not getting killed in the stock market and you're up right now go ahead and use that that is your money and uh that's a really risky thing we'd really love for you to consider our investment strategy and reach out to a smart investor pro go to ramseysolutions.com find a smart investor pro or two or three in your area and interview them

and start that investment strategy that way but you've got options here you've got several options but one thing i don't like is when when we feel like you know something's wrong with the car i mean i can tell you how many times i've had mechanics go well this is this is probably gonna happen and i go has it happened no it hasn't happened it's probably gonna happen okay great

and about what is that going to cost when it happens okay just and you just got that money

and i'm just wait what happened yeah i'm not going to just drive that car every day going gee i hope this doesn't happen today if it happens we got the aaa we'll get her over there we'll fix it i you know just this oh i've gotta move money now i gotta come up with money now it's like do you sometimes the answer is unequivocally yes yeah but sometimes it's like no actually well

before i go buy two air conditioning systems let me have somebody else come out and look at them and get a second opinion before i go spend 12 grand you know yeah that's a you know what that's a great point this is the kind of thing i would really do i'm glad you brought this up i'm telling my wife she's on facebook right i'm not on facebook i'm going to facebook

the whole neighborhood we live in a neighborhood the neighborhood's got a page there's all these next door apps i don't know all the stuff that i'm i'm not on i mean you could go hey anybody got some hvac experience i'm getting some i'm getting some different stories here i got a story that seems pretty gruesome anybody you know you just never know some guy goes yeah i do

it i'm your neighbor i'll come over and take a look at it why wouldn't you exhaust all options before you decide to chunk 12 grand into two new units now the thing going for this guy is and i get it he's in orlando it's it's about to get hotter than the surface of the sun you need some air conditioning that's right yeah i i yeah you know what i'm saying yeah it's it's that fear thing

you talked about yeah you know i get the temptation to man i'll just let's just do it right now i'll figure out how to pay for it later and no we're not there let's just be intentional yeah yeah i mean goodness gracious i

i grew up in houston so i know what happens when the air conditioner goes out is it hotter in houston texas in july or orlando florida i don't know i think it's about the same yeah it's just once it crosses the 110 mark it just hurts yeah kelly's shaking her head i think the humidity in texas and florida is probably equal and that's really what's going on

you know the humidity is unbelievable but you know john we talked about this early i want people to get this we have a little bit of fun here with chuck but you know john's right you know i've learned this from you and i talk about this too when you've got a fear write it out get it out of your head and let's see if it's really really truly something

i should be afraid of if i stand close to the fire get burned that's a real fear if i try this career i'm going to be homeless and live under a bridge that's not or if it costs 125 bucks to recharge american engineers for the next three months yeah i got 90 days to yeah get some other opinions and ideas and solutions don't they make some kind of tape for that kind of stuff it's got to be some tape at lowe's or home depot

i don't [Applause] [Music]

well i don't know how to fix anything so i i willingly step into the laughter there folks hey i'll tell you what i do know we're coming back to continue to help you this is the ramsay show

[Music]

you're listening to the ramsey show thrilled to have you with us triple eight eight two five five two two five i'm ken coleman joined by dr john delony and we are talking about your life your relationships your money your work

your career path mental health we're talking about it all triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to ann arbor

michigan home of my beloved michigan wolverines andrew joins us there andrew how can we help hey john hey ken how you guys doing today we're having a blast what's up ah my wife and i are 25 years old and uh

we're looking to have kids in the next three to five years um we don't want to look back and regret not ever moving out of state um so i was just kind of looking for some advice what what do you what's the regret you fear uh just staying in the city so we live in a small town just outside ann arbor our kind of fear is that

you never go to the mountains you're never never really get to live or experience living out of state we have a lot of family members that are kind of doing that and it's something that we're just kind of considering so why don't you just go move well it's always come back to finances and uh the projection of our future right well why not travel have you traveled to some of

these places that you wonder about living in yes sir

yes um so we we would love to go down to

tennessee um there's there's opportunities with my company um there's also opportunities to go down to the carolinas um really a lot of regions that we'd like to live but we when we have kids we want to be back here in michigan so the kind of question i have for you um goes

back to our debt we currently have about 15 000 in savings that's including our our emergency fund we have about 98 thousand dollars in mortgage debt um we have seventy thousand dollars saved in our retirement and combined we make a pre-tax and pre-contribution income of a hundred and thirty-five thousand dollars um so i guess the the question i have is

and we're projected to i'm protected to pay off the house between august and october of next year um

so i guess my my question goes back to whether we should should just wait a year um

how much is your house worth andrew how much is your house worth and i know you've got 98 000 left so what would it sell for right now give me a modest projection uh i would think around

between 230 and 250 thousand dollars bro

i don't know what you're worried about i'm gonna let john speak this move to the psychology but as long as you don't have an interruption in income um you guys you're debt free except your home you could pay the home off right now right now if you sell it right now you guys have got big time cash and if you replace your income you said there are opportunities in the carolinas and opportunities in tennessee take the opportunities and you know what if you wanna if you wanna have kids in three to five years by the way you have no control over that zero okay but let's just say that plays out for you um listen to andrew you guys could rent for two or three years it's not a sin to rent you're debt-free if you're gonna come back eventually or you you might have enough money it sounds like you might gonna have enough money to put a nice down payment on something else and sell that when the kids come along john you want to speak to the fear here it's bigger than that you may have find some wonderful community in tennessee or the carolinas in three to five years never come back and never go back and so what you're what you're doing is you're projecting the other side of a coin while you're you're projecting what living in on the tail side is going to be where you live on the head side and so you're never gonna know until you go and here's what you're looking for you're looking for an iron clad should we or shouldn't we that doesn't exist you're just gonna have to jump or you're gonna have to be really happy that you didn't jump or like my family we always said him we'd love to live outside of texas it was until we were in our late late 30s before we finally made the jump and our kids were young and we never thought we'd do that and we did and so you put some artificial constraints on yourself and then you're bound in by these artificial constraints and feel like you can't move and then feeling like you can't move makes you frustrated and your wife frustrated you're only 25.

okay okay so um

i um i have a business um

it's a waxing business in the springs i've got two employees just this week i signed

another year lease thinking it was just a normal situation to go ahead and sign another year lease

for the two suites that i do rent from from my landlord last night i found out

the landlord is planning on on selling the buildings um and i just signed the lease this week

and found out yesterday my question is

because a real estate is so crazy here and really hot in the springs um would it be advantageous

to look into purchasing my own building

a little bit about my husband and i um my business cleared about a hundred thousand dollars last year after tax um and we um

we owe 182 000 on our house

we were hoping to go ahead and have our

house fully paid for in a year and a half uh and we make about 2.95 total between my husband and i um

can you afford to buy a building with cash well we don't have the for a commercial

property from my understanding you're supposed to have 25 to 30 percent down to purchase the the building now my

landlord would love to sell it to me but she wants to sell it for 750 thousand dollars so i would have to probably have two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars jenny jenny jenny you didn't answer his question but we know the answer the answer is no you don't have the cash to buy a building so if you don't have the cash to buy a building this is not a good decision for

you and i don't think you have anything to worry about just because your current landlord is selling the building whoever the new owner is going to be they want people renting leasing from them i just don't see with the business you've got going this is an unnecessary question it's just you don't even need to think about buying anything at all just keep going what

okay really like what if there was a property that was less than that that i could occupy the majority of the space and then have and not even have a landlord what if a meteorite comes directly at us at any moment

or whatever my car gets a jet engine put

here's the thing you can what if and you it's they're all going to be right and fun and adventurous what ifs and the chances of them coming through what i don't want you to do is to go to colorado springs take out a giant mortgage on a building have that entire market slow down and you're stuck with a building you can't fully fund or you can't fully lease or you're going to have to undersell

the market you're going to find yourself in a mess and then you go from being a business owner to a business that's doing really good to being a landowner right to being a

someone who's in the real estate business which is a whole other business so it all sounds good if you can walk in and pay cash for a building awesome great do it tomorrow if you can't don't bind yourself up into a whole other adventure and i know you can sit down and flip over a napkin and make the math work for you um i wouldn't do that jenny you and your

husband make really good money your business is growing you got a new landlord and it somehow freaked you out and then you've created a worse scenario than actually just continuing to step forward you're holding a year lease in your hand big deal you're good you're fine you got

this stay the course hey i want to thank our producer ben hill our associate producer kelly daniel and my colleague dr john deloney but most of all we want to thank you america this is your show this is the ramsey show

hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to thermzyshow.com thanks for listening

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney and we are a part of the ramsey network and we are your hosts this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll talk about your money we'll talk about your emotional and

mental health we'll talk about your job are you just working a job you wanna make more money you wanna get that shovel bigger so you can get out of debt faster you want to actually work on purpose and enjoy mondays well that's what we talk about on the ken coleman show and dr john delaney helping you on all things emotional mental health relationships and we'll talk about your money as well

triple eight eight two five five two two five let's start it off with amanda in colorado springs colorado amanda how

can we help hey guys oh my goodness thank you so much for taking my call it's such an honor to speak with you guys well the honor is all ours what's going on today okay so i want to make this as concise as possible um i am 33 years old

and i have a really rare

terminal illness um that is in

the essentially what i've been told is kind of the end stages um and really at this point i'm kind of out living the timeline that doctors have actually given me um which

is amazing and you know um i'm still believing that

the lord could heal me and um but realistically i feel like my body is failing and um

i have grown up with the dave ramsey

principles i'm out of debt i got to live my dream

job in ministry and do all the things um but

i am kind of right now unsure

um and feel like i'm in kind of uncharted territory as far as what to do with finances um

in the like few in the like

present day life

um and how to set myself up well not knowing um kind of as i call it like terminal

without a timeline so i like i said i'm out of debt and i have um because of some disability back pay and some different things i have some money and so because of my

illness i wasn't able to like withstand

the cold of colorado winter so i came down to florida and lived

for what i thought was kind of going to be the ending like last six months of my life and i'm still here um but i i don't know kind of how to

navigate and um yeah so

i just wanted to kind of get some perspective on that well amanda you you're just you're telling of your story is giving us all uh perspective on our

own lives i don't know that there's a person in the united states that's listening to this that didn't just stop for a second turn the radio up and so thank you so much for being brave and for telling us about that and um from the bottom of the heart i'm heartbroken for you and your attitude and bravery and way you are making meaning of this is an inspiration to me personally to

all of us is how do you stare what we all know is coming right how we stare in the face and also be able to

to recognize and find beauty in every day and we get to live our dream job and hey i'm gonna go six months and ride out the last few months in in florida a place i want to be and now what do i do so um thank you so much for sharing your story with us yeah um so it sounds like there's two parts to this number one is

the personal and the second is the financial when you say you want to know what to do with your money explain that a little bit are you wondering who to leave it to do you have enough money to get through treatment or tell me what your money concerns are kind of all the above and so

i like i said um i

was actually kind of in a um

not really feeling like i was debt-free and that kind of thing um but then um once i kind of navigated through um like disability and different things

and now um i get a small amount of disability each month um i just i guess for me

do oh how about this do you have enough money to pay your bills i do yeah i do and i um

are you single do you have anybody that is a dependent okay i'm totally single my mom was a single mom and so really she's the only person that

i'm connected to and um yeah so i guess the thing is

i have enough money that i could live for a pretty long amount of time i think probably longer than i can um but i guess it's just that fear of spending it like frivolously um you know just living you know without

like i've always been a hard worker and i've always like been self-sufficient and so just to like

not have a plan and i don't know i guess

that's what i'm asking is is i feel like the dave ramsey way is

to always have a plan yeah i don't know so yeah

your plan in your heart and mind you know how to make a financial plan um honey you've got enough money to

get you to the end of the ride and so your goal now is not like debt free your goal is not everyday millionaire that's not your goal your goal is to slide in to

the end with no tread left on your tires in a safe and responsible way obviously but your your last months your last year

can be about service can be about visiting people that you want to visit can be about um walking dog it can be about anything you want it to be because quite frankly you're a you're

literally an angel that i'm speaking to right now yeah and so it's surreal to have outlived the

outlived right they gave you a short deadline and that's you grieved it and then you went to

you you set off into your ship for your last ride and then the ride went all the way around and then you landed back to shore now you're kind of yeah you don't know what to do right and so well i started a blog called terminal ain't terrible because i'm like just gotta live the rest of my life there you go so i wanna hear what you wanna do is

there people you wanna go visit is it serving the least of these you sound like a person who is so committed to other people what are the things that you want to do you get a rare moment you get a rare moment that many folks won't have which is i've got a clear heart and a clear mind and i am financially okay and but i i know

the end is near i know it's coming what do you want to do yeah well i've

done a lot of writing um i um you know i i listened to

ken's radio show and kind of was like trying to figure out like a job with like writing and creating a blog and monetizing it but i think like perspective-wise that was a little bit like time-wise not gonna work um amanda here's what i would tell you number one we're we're going to be praying for you as john said you inspired us listen you need to decide you want to leave some money for mom

if you don't have a will get a will kelly will connect you if you need that but i would decide how you're going to live and it's about relationships from here on from here on out that's jobs it's all relationships and i love that you're writing but it really is about what you want to do this is you leaving your mark we're honored that you called us that

you shared this story amanda make it count this is the ramsay

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show hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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the ramsay show continues from our ramsey solutions worldwide headquarters in nashville so excited that you've joined us i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dolone and we're taking your calls this hour on your life your money your relationships your mental emotional health your work

that advancing making more money whatever we're taking that call for you triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five when it comes to life i don't

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let's go to the city of angels los angeles california nancy joins us on the line there nancy how can we help

hi it's an honor you guys to speak to you both well he honors our all ours how can we help well i'm calling because

i'm in a bit of a conundrum i'm 46 years

old i'm a single mom and i am about to start baby step 3b

but i am concerned because um

i don't have very much saved for retirement i do have a pension but

my dream is to someday own a home

and while i'm you know cash flowing my daughter's college as well i'm just kind of wondering what should i do should i begin to save for retirement and just kind of

um not be as intense in terms of saving

for the down payment i know it's going to slow me down or should i just focus my efforts in saving for the down payment and make sure that when i am ready to purchase that home that i can pay it off before i retire why are you cash flowing your daughter's college i'm sorry um why are you cash flowing your daughter's college um because i don't want her to you know

be in the same situation that i was in

i mean i had a lot of student loans

and um i just wanted to make sure that she's you know shut up and that when she graduates that she doesn't have so i'll let ken talk through the money part but i've seen this with parents over the years working in colleges and they end up making a trade unintentionally and the trade is i don't want my students to have student loan debt because i remember the pain of that

and so instead of investing in their retirement they put that money into the college fund and what that what that means is instead of the kid having student loans to pay off or having to figure out another college option that may be cheaper less prestigious et cetera they assure that mom's gonna have to move in and that kid's gonna have to pay for mom and old age

so there's a hundred percent chance that you're gonna have to retire there's a hundred percent chance you're gonna get old and there is a million options

other than having to cash flow your kids college and it ends up just being a reverse burden it's going to be a different one but it's still going to exist there if that makes sense and so i'll pass it on again i i just want to put that out there because i see i hear and see parents do that all the time your priority right now has got to be making sure you've got a home making sure you've got retirement and then working to figure out a solution for your daughter in college yeah nancy you're a great mom first of all i mean yes you're just got a huge heart and i understand why you're doing what you're doing but john's absolutely right this is not your burden and if you walk the baby steps out okay and you know the baby steps so you're in the 3b which is kind of developed over time right the baby step 4 is 15 toward retirement and then we move towards the college and all that stuff and so you're just in a situation where you're behind the eight ball there and i think you feel that burden and you shouldn't feel the burden i think i think you and your daughter got to figure something out what i want to know is is what's your income about 105 a year 105.

opportunity for my income to to increase um how much are you putting towards your daughter what's your monthly spend on the daughter's education not very much she she understood

from the very beginning that she had to stay here in california and she's doing state college in roughly a year um i pay about two thousand dollars

two thousand dollars four thousand dollars a year for for her tuition and books because her father does help okay so you're putting forth very okay that's good that's really good i'm glad to hear that that that is good um but again i think what john said is right i mean what we want to see you do is is really begin to get on your on your uh your retirement

because she can earn four thousand dollars she can earn four thousand dollars i'd like to see that four thousand dollars going towards you know again if you want to save for the house that's fine but you need to be on if you really want to buy how long you've been renting by the way i'm

curious since uh since forever um i didn't

really discover dave ramsey until about three years ago yeah hold on a second i don't want you to feel guilt over that i hear tremendous guilt and shame over that that's not that's not a bad thing nancy i want to set you free from that the reason i asked is it's not a sin to rent when financially you're not in a position to buy a home and you're not

and i love that you're going after baby step 3b but i also want you to to be looking at your retirement portfolio and that was my next question so i don't we got to keep moving here but don't feel guilt over that yeah i i rent i've rented for years and years i just recently bought so it's all good yeah you're not wasting money nancy now where are

you at retirement to this moment what do you what do you have say for retirement um well like i said i do have a pension um and as soon as i mean i didn't really know very much about investing i have about i don't know i would say about 30k in annuities um and i stopped that completely once i decided to you know follow the steps

so i haven't really invested a whole lot

and that's why i think i'm feeling this sense of of panic and i keep telling myself well there is a pension but i know that well hey don't be done don't be panicked uh i thought you told me you were 46 years young did i remember that correctly that is correct come on let's hear it nancy for 1974.

i'm 46 as well so nancy i don't think

i'm i don't think i'm old so i i promise you i don't think you're old so number one no more panic no more guilt and shame over rent can i get an amen doc yeah and no more panic here's and listen listen listen no more guilt and shame over parenting yeah more guilt and shame over the relationship that didn't work out you got this no more of

it so nancy here real quick we got to run through some things have you met with one of our smart vester pros and not yet you need to go to ramseysolutions.com as soon as this call is over and as dave has taught us and we say the same thing i want you to interview three four five until you get one that feels like they definitely have the heart of

the teacher and you've got a connection with them i want you to sit down and let them see your stuff and say i just called the ramsay show and here's where i am now i've got a little bit of panic and i know i need a plan and an absent of a plan the brain goes wild

and then we we get panicky so i want you to get with a good smart investor pro and begin to map this thing out the four thousand dollars we need to bring that back in and we need to either put that towards baby step 3b uh let's look at your current 401k whatever you've got going on at work let's let's work towards that but but i want

you to sit down and figure out what a real retirement plan looks like and i think you're going to go okay i do have time i can be really gazelle intense now at this level too and i can catch up it's not too late and there is an entire culture built around making moms especially single moms feel like you are a perpetual screw-up

you've done everything wrong and you'll continue to that is a lie you're a great mom you're in a position now you're not too late to turn it around you have turned it around and now it's getting the right people in your corner to get down this new path you're on it nancy you're rocking and rolling i'm so proud of you yep take your time take a deep breath the house will be there when you're ready for it this is the ramsay show

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the ramsay show continues from ramsey solutions headquarters in nashville i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney so grateful that you have joined us it is your show america and therefore

we have a phone number for you to jump in triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two

five five two two five let's

go to joe who joins us in harrisburg pennsylvania joe you're on the ramsay show hey hey ken hey dr john how are you guys doing we are having a blast what's it all about for you today okay so i'm 23 um i just graduated

college in may and i'm a i'm actually a personal finance teacher it uses dave's high school curriculum oh great thank you my question is i have

twelve thousand five hundred dollars left on my student loans and i do a monthly budget um as i should as a personal finance teacher i go um yes but i have haven't planned out

that i'll be debt-free um by the end of summer so end of august that's how i haven't budged it out because i'm still living at home with my parents um so i'm able to save a lot of money like that i've already paid off like about twenty thousand dollars good for you my question is though since they are in deferment until september and there's all this talk about

you know the possibility of some uh of the debt being forgiven like i'm not planning on that but would it be wrong of me to put my money in the savings account that i've budgeted every month until september in case it happens then once september hits and it doesn't happen i just pay that 12 500 off because my next step would be buying a house and i just would be an awful feeling in my stomach

if i could have ten thousand gone i could put that towards the house yeah i you know that's a very logical question john and joe i'm gonna tell you something um there was a point in my life where it was a possibility that i was going to be able to dunk a basketball at least that was really that was the thought no no no it never was a possibility that i'm making my point here

and i don't think it's a possibility that the government's going to pay your loans off i just don't see it happening i think it's i think it's one in a million chance it happens uh but to answer your question answer your question straightforward it's not wrong you know but that's not what we're going to recommend i don't think it's morally wrong it just puts yourself in a temptation to

if you put that aside and you stop the plan a plan that you're going to execute in just a few months at the end of the summer it creates all levels of temptation then my colleague is far uh far more qualified to talk about the psychological there and so that's why we're never going to recommend that you do that but it's not morally wrong joe here's here's my heart on

it you're a smart guy is that correct i i

think so that's like the impossible question i know i set you up here so you are a smart guy you wouldn't be a finance he's like uh no john hey so

at the end of the day where i struggle with this is a guy who me and my wife have what

seven degrees between us we had

six figures of student loans and then i started con using student loans to consolidate cars and credit i went bananas with student loans all right yeah here's the thing

nobody tricked me every i didn't i

didn't i didn't count the cost i didn't sit there and add them up every semester and see what i you know how deep the hole was but i didn't know to do that right so at the end was that kind of due to it but here's the thing i signed my name to a piece of paper and that paper said hey if you'll help me get through college i'll pay you back and so for me this is an integrity question and you are somebody who has a a

blessing and that your parents and you get along you're allowed to stay there and save up this money and there's something in my soul that wouldn't sleep right knowing that i waited on the government to bail me out of the choice that i made an integrity decision that i signed a piece of paper saying i'll pay you back um because you helped me get through school and

so you have the ability to work really hard and be debt free on your own two feet in a few months and there's a part of me that as a guy who's walked alongside students for so many years what i'm going to tell you is you're going to have your head held high brother and if if you pay it all off in august in september they say hey we're waving 10 grand you're going to go you're going to turn around

and what you're going to do is like most americans should you're going to get indignant you're going to say wait a minute i just worked my butt off to complete the agreement that i signed and you're just going to wipe and then you're gonna say well so it is i stood up on my own two feet and not paid it off you can join the uh ken coleman grumpy old man club

because i paid mine off and my wife paid hers off married yeah and it's like i don't think they should defer that i don't think they should uh get pay these things off i don't like it i don't think it's right all right then if you agree then keep walking it forward i just didn't want the fomo you know hey you know what listen you're gonna have fomo whether you're just learn now that fomo's a choice

right it's a choice that's a great call and you know what else joe you're rocking it man yeah pay these things off you can still live with mom and dad a little longer and save up for that house payment or whatever take your time i gotta tell you this john it's very

normal but now being 46

having gone through the early 20s i got married at 23. okay yeah i get it

but you don't have to buy a house no

to prove that you're a success or that you aren't a loser or whatever the narrative is joe doesn't have to be in a hurry to buy a house not that it's man if you if you get an apartment at 23 you're just pouring your money down the drain you're just flushing it down the toilet no you're not no you're not you learn how to grow up you're saving some money outside of mom

and dad's house right and we're not talking about you joe talking about anybody who's 23 man and you have the opportunity to live at home it's a it's a healthy situation you pay those loans off really fast and then go live in an apartment for a few years yeah slow down save your money let this market cool off have cash in your hand and go put down 20 30 40 percent on a house

when people

need to get out you're gonna get a great deal on house yeah just everybody exhale for a second especially you 22 23 24 year olds yeah i mean renting is not a sin we got to say that over and over and over let's go to houston texas where jessica joins us jessica you're on the ramsay show hi how are you we're having a blast jessica what's going on

so my husband and i have completed uh

baby steps one through three good

way to go jessica thank you thank you

we're very proud of it um and we are currently

we currently just finished baby step three but we found it to be very difficult because we recently just welcomed our first baby in december yes yes yes and we were told that we had

to pay a third amount for us to have our baby at the hospital so we paid that it was in the budget we paid it but the problem is is that we keep receiving medical bills from myself and my son's

stay at the hospital so we found with step three it was a constant we were saving for three to six months and then stopping and then saving and then stopping to pay off the medical bills um and now that we're transitioning to step four um we're not sure how to

still treat the medical bills if we should still treat it like it's a debt because we're fighting that we're constantly starting and stopping because we just received these random medical bills from when from the birth of our son so i am in a similar situation not with a baby but i went i had to go to the er um over the christmas holidays and i went in there and in the er they

had this you know it was like a robot on an ipad and they brought them out and they said here's what the cost is going to be and i have an hsa so i paid the hsa

and the the amount they wanted i didn't have that much in my hsa account and so they said well we'll just move the what you owe us down i said i don't want to cash pay i want to give you any insurance just want to pay cash and get out of here so they moved it down and i have this recorded i said you're telling me this is

the final bill forever this is it they're like yes your cash pay you're gonna be able to walk out of here we're gonna all high five i said it again and again and again and there's this thing saying this call is being recorded and it's flashing up there right and then just the other day i got another bill so what'd you do i'm gonna call the hospital

and say you're gonna check your records i'm not gonna pay anymore we agreed on this i gave you this cash and what i think i don't always think it's the hospital's fault i think different departments build differently but there's a central department that says here's the cause they need to get their house in order so what i would do is fight this and give them a call say here's what

we agreed on i'm not paying this anymore and if you send me the collections i'm gonna go get a great attorney in houston okay don't let him take advantage of you you paid your bills you'd be done with it go fight this jessica all right don't move

more ramsey show right after the break

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this is the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney and we're taking your calls about your life your money your relationships

your work triple eight eight two five five two two five our scripture of the day

hebrews 10 23 and 24 let us hold

unswervingly to the hope we profess for he who promised is faithful and let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds our quote

of the day from anne frank no one has ever become poor

by giving that's powerful stuff

triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to boise idaho where roberto joins us roberto you're on the ramsay show hey guys thank you for having me you bet what's going on hey so just a question i'm 24 years old

i'm a new registered nurse i just graduated in december congratulations man thank you i appreciate that the only debt that i have is something that i did pretty dumb about a month ago i purchased a new truck

so it's about twenty four thousand dollars in debt okay now i wanna go back to grad school in like two to three years to be a anesthesiologist and the average

cost of the entire three-year program is about 130 000 depending on what school you go to

so i've been having some like buyers regret and i wanted to get someone's opinion like do i sell the truck and focus on saving for school

or do i just pay off the truck first and then go from there i didn't know if i if i sold the truck if i needed to treat the future debt like how i would in baby step two and just focus on you know saving up all that money for school how much is the truck worth

so the truck is worth i'd say

19 000. the extra like four or five grand was for like the maintenance and the warranty and stuff how much do you make right now so i make uh every month

i make i would say 1700 uh i'm sorry

man you're nursing at the wrong place yeah 3 500 a month and how old are you i'm 24.

okay yeah i mean get rid of the truck

you know but you got to have something you got to have something to uh to drive i'm guessing or are you in a situation where you could use public transportation to get to your job i have no idea what boise idaho is looking like and where you're at what are your transportation needs yeah i'd probably have to buy a car i have about like four four thousand five thousand dollars saved up yeah let me tell you something i want you this is what i want you to do tonight before you go to bed i want you to go on autotrader.com or find other cars.com i don't care i'm not endorsing any website i'm just telling you go go to one of those websites and just and just put in your budget and see what's out there i think it's going to blow your mind of how much quality something that will get you a and b and it doesn't look like you know rats have been living in it um and i think that's what you do and you get this debt out of your life and now you're back to square one when you're debt free and then i'd get after i'd get after it i'd work i'd take as much overtime i don't know what the options are for you as a nurse there but you know you want to save up and cash flow your way through this the other thing i want to challenge you on is you said on average the schooling you want to do is 130 000.

like a hundred i'd go 100.

and let me tell you why nobody

i mean nobody roberto cares where you

went to school take the cheapest option if it's viable

take the cheapest option don't go don't go average go the lowest cost possible and i would delay it i i'd work my tail off and i'd delay it until i have it all in the bank because it's just not going to be worth it i promise you and roberto i want you to hear what you're saying the next three years right you're 24 years old you're playing a 30 year old game as a 24 year old you're gonna work every weekend you're gonna work every night you're gonna stack that money

and stack it and stack it and stack it and then you're gonna go pay cash and you along the way you're gonna develop a reputation as a great nurse i was going to say killer nurse and that had a bad connotation yeah you're going to be recognized as a great nurse you're going to get some extraordinary experiences because there's difference of working the night shift as the morning shift

you know that and then you're going to be ready to exhale and go to a graduate program get your feet underneath you you're going to pay cash and you're going to come out as a 28 29 year old making a jillion dollars as a nurse anesthesiologist and you're going to have no debt and then it's going to be game on brother and listen don't just hear what john said

i want you to feel the truth behind what john said because when you do that he just gave you a beautiful fast forward into the future and when you come out that way there's going to be other people in that anesthesia program that are just crushed by debt and every nickel they're making is going just to keep their nose above water i want you to feel that future

i want you to feel the difference if you can if you can place yourself in where your other uh fellow students will be versus where john placed you that will keep you from being tempted i'm telling you the degree is there the anesthesiology jobs are there the money are there but please please please do it the right way here's a picture what that looks like as i was a dean of students of a law school

and then i went back to get a second degree i drove an old corolla like an 01

or a 2000 corolla because i was going to put my money over here versus over there didn't make me any better than anybody else did anything like that and man my buddies gave me a hard time my my friends and colleagues and they should have right i looked ridiculous but it was an internal decision i want

this more than this right and so i want him to know man you can keep pulling into that same hospital parking lot over the next two three four years in a used honda or a used whatever

you're not gonna press anybody that's not your goal right now your goal is a debt free walking across that graduation stage as an anesthesiologist a nurse anesthesiologist owing nobody anything and then then brother the world is yours right yeah now you're talking about stacking money and anywhere in the country right you could go anywhere with that degree yep you know i want i want to stay here

because i think this is such a it's such a temptation and it's such a it's a mental mountain for people to get over an emotional mountain to get over let's play this out so if if somebody

does it the way everybody else if roberto does it the way everybody else does it he's not going to he's already told us that

you come out and you're so burdened by

debt and you realize that okay i got the degree i got the job i'm making good money but i'm not tasting the fruits of that i'm not seeing the fruit of that i i know i'm making it but it's disappearing and then all of a sudden the resentment and frustration begin to build and it becomes toxic and then they call it ken coleman show john they go i'm burned out

i don't i don't i don't i gotta i gotta find a new career and i go what and we dive into it we find out no you don't you're just miserable you're resenting yourself you're resenting the job because you're having to work crazy hours and you don't find yourself getting ahead and you go did i make the wrong decision you didn't make the wrong decision on the work is what

i find most of the time

you made the wrong decision financially and then you just never get hit versus holding off here and he comes out and goes man i'm doing the work i love i'm in my sweet spot but boy oh boy i'm also like in high school when we were getting in shape we had to pull tires yeah right you sprint you're pulling that tire behind you and man you sure can run fast

when you're in a game when you don't have a tire behind you right not the truth and that's debt right you can run anywhere you want to yeah it's awesome so you got to be careful it's such a great exercise john to get out there in front of it and go wait a second what's the desired future if i don't do the debt what's the future look like

if i am straddled you know or saddled rather with debt you know and because well here's his life he's got a 24 000 truck he's gonna go to work in a high stress high yes a secondary traumatic stress gig is hard his buddies are going to want to get off shift and go hang out go eat go hang out go eat he's going to meet somebody they're going to bring dead into that relationship too

and then they're going to need to buy a house and then he's going to want to go to grad school and then suddenly you're going to look up and like you mentioned you're going to be living life underwater yeah as opposed to just biting down on your mouthpiece for a couple of years going in there swinging and you turn around 26 27 years old yeah man you set your

you set your entire legacy up and it's so frustrating ken and it's so hard i know here's here's what i found just about anybody says i'm willing to do what it takes you betcha but then you say are you willing to wait as long as it takes whoa hold on that's good everybody's

willing to do what it takes very few are willing to wait as long as it takes that's the difference patience is the magic you got to have it hey i want to thank my colleague dr john deloney always fun to be with you pal want to thank our producer ben hill i want to thank kelly daniel our associate producer and i want to thank you america thank you for joining us this is your show this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 192. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 10, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice chris

hogan ramsey personality multiple number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we take your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

starting off this hour is going to be anchorage alaska cindy is with us hi cindy welcome to the ramsay show hi dave hi chris thanks for taking my call sure what's up so i had a question i'm currently in baby step 3b and i've been in alaska for on and off for about nine years working as a nurse um and i figured it's time to start looking to purchase either a condo or a home and i wanted to get your opinion um so

i'm currently i have where i could buy

a smaller one-bedroom condo but

kind of looking at the real estate market it seems like those condos have a longer i'm a resale like

you're on the market longer so my question is is it better to go ahead and purchase like a smaller condo outright

or kind of wait a little bit longer and either put a higher down payment on a larger condo or a house or

obviously by 100 down but if that wasn't the ability so i just want to get your opinion on that yeah cool so you're you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund now you're saving your down payment right correct yes and i have enough that i could buy like a small like a one bedroom condo is like 105 to 115.

but um the resale on that is your income

yeah um anywhere depending on if i work um one or two jobs anywhere from 75 to 90

okay a year okay and so how long will it take you to save up to buy a little bit better than the one bedrooms that don't set resale well

um i'm guessing probably about another year like to put 100 down but i could put

obviously that larger so you have a hundred now yes correct wow okay and how much longer

do you see yourself in alaska's cindy well and that's kind of i have a little gypsy soul so i've kind of been i've got one foot in and one foot out okay i i heard the southern come out right there in that gypsy soul thank you originally we might be related that's us you're from the motherland kentucky that's good um

do you see yourself there another three to five years or less

one half of me that's the and that's where the caveat comes in one half of me says yes because i didn't think i would see myself here this long okay i don't but at the same time don't buy a one bedroom yeah you told me three times uh that

they sell slow and they don't appreciate well and so it's just not a good investment i mean you already knew that you didn't need me to say it you were telling yourself that so the two options are you wait and save unpay cash for a little bit better property that you could resell if you get ready to move

and you're not stuck in it and that also means it's going to go up in value because time on the market is also correlated with appreciation most of the time meaning if something sells really fast it's hot it usually is going up in value and so that's the you know those two things the days on the market are correlated with appreciation rate in your mls statistics typically

so i i you know i'm okay if you buy today and put half down and pay the other half off in three years gotcha okay or yeah or if you want to wait and pay a hundred percent and you wait a year and a half or whatever and you want to pay put 100 down either one's fine but i would not buy the soft market one bedroom now dave explain

the phrase and this thing is said oftentimes in real estate you make your money on the buy what does that mean well you you have to

buy something if you're gonna get a deal add a deal right and don't buy something that's got

a bad situation like those one bedrooms in that market aren't selling okay so that's you you you know you made a poor decision at the buy it's not necessarily the money that you made but that's going to cost you money on the sale on the back end right and like the first house uh i ever bought was up on a hill

uh and it wasn't up on a good hill it was like stuck in the side of a bluff and nasty

and ugly i mean this house was ugly ugly with a u and i got a great deal on it but you know what when i got ready to sell it it was still ugly and so i gave somebody a great deal

how long did it take for this thing to move it took forever you know and so uh that that's the problem you get into is that you know if the reason you got a good deal is still there when you get ready to sell you're gonna give somebody a good deal you know whether it's floor plan whether it's the elevation from the street whether it's the fact that there's a flood of

the one bedrooms and they built too many of them and a lot of the people buying those necessarily aren't they're not putting down routes they're more transitory whatever yeah whatever the reason is that you got a deal going in is the same reason you're going to give a deal going out unless you can change that and i mean if the reason you got a deal was it was a foreclosure

it needed carpet paint and a roof curb appeal and the curb appeal is fine but you just need to cut down all the big bushes and put down some new landscaping you had 25 year old you know plants out front that look like crap that kind of thing and you go in and do a makeover on the house now that you've changed the equation there that one makes sense

but cindy i would tell you this reach out get an endorsed local provider somebody that can give you that objective third party opinion and guide you so you emotionally don't get so caught up into it uh but come up with a dollar range that you're gonna buy don't let the bank or mortgage company tell you how much you're going to spend you need to do that on your own yeah well you've done such a great job

she really has i mean you've saved up a hundred thousand dollars most people don't have a thousand dollars that's exactly she's got a hundred she's been intentional she really is pretty impressive well she's from kentucky dave she's she's smart i'm just gonna put that out there are you yeah you're just gonna you think i'm just gonna leave it lay there i think you will

maybe not maybe not we can fight on air

it's okay for us to battle [Laughter] i'm just gonna laugh all the way into the commercial break that's all i'm gonna do but seriously people out there i know okay here you go i know mortgage rates are low and everyone's getting house fever and you're getting tempted but listen to me don't let interest rates determine when you make this move the goal is not to buy a home

the goal is to own that bad boy outright so you stay in control of you and your thing what she's done she's done that she really hasn't she's sitting there on a hundred thousand dollars she easily could have been shopping with a ninety thousand dollar household income for a three or four hundred thousand dollar house easily yeah and instead she's questioning whether she ought to buy a 100 000 one bedroom that means her heart's right her head's right that's right

and i don't care where she's from she's acting smart she is smart

doesn't matter where she's from we're gonna give her credit oh well done well done yeah a home

prices um people you know

getting the impulse fever this

built up thing inside of your spirit that is forcing you and your emotional mind to buy the largest purchase you're gonna make yeah this is a recipe for stupidity it really is and this is how people get burnt is doing this kind of stuff so she's she's being very very smart way to go cindy great job chris hogan ramsey personality and i will be back right here on the ramsey show

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so

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[Music] chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host thank you for joining us open phones at eight two five five two two five luke is with us in

green bay hi luke welcome to the dave ramsey show thank you good afternoon dave and chris sure a question for you today is regarding umbrella insurance my wife and i a few years ago got a one million dollar umbrella policy liability and just curious if there's a certain net worth where we should look at adding to it on to two and three and four million as you go along or is

there a certain ratio that you can say you kind of have a rule of thumb for well it starts to get ridiculous when you get above 5 million the bargain is 1 million you couple 100 bucks you can buy 1 million umbrella but above 5 million you start to get ridiculous um i mean i have found a 10 million that's decent i think i've got 10 right now

but i also have the dave ramsey problem i mean if i bump into somebody they're gonna be going oh i'm okay what's your name dave ramsey oh god you know and so all of a sudden you know it's like i got a big target on my butt right so um i went ahead and picked up an extra

level of it but i don't know that i would necessarily recommend that anything above 5 million what i do tell you to do when you get above the million need i mean if you're starting to sit on a net worth of um uh you know north of three to five million dollars and that kind of a thing you're starting to worry million dollars probably not enough you really need to start looking at other risk management things you can do then and that's starting to put assets into llc's

and trusts and so forth i

personally do not own a single thing anymore i don't even own my cars my cars are in

llc's and that's all from a risk management standpoint that the owner of the car is the only person that can only only entity that could get sued if something happened the individual only way i could get sued personally is if i had committed a criminal act and they could they could pierce it then but but um so like my one of my farms is in

one llc this building is in a trust uh

and so on i don't personally own anything and that way if someone falls over in one of those properties or something happens around one of those items they can only if you lost the lawsuit they could only take the assets in that entity entity that's right and you bring up the statement risk management which is huge because you can work so hard to build wealth but if

you don't protect it the right way with an umbrella policy which all that is folks is it's another layer of coverage over your automobile and your homeowners and so it's just like an umbrella that you'd walk outside with it's that extra layer of protection and dave said it a million dollar policies a couple hundred dollars a year yeah and so you can get that in place but

the llc and the trust they've are crucial things for people to get set up well and what you're gonna find is is that when you get north of five million dollars in net worth if you're being wise and watching everything there's two things to get that start three things to start to get very complicated your taxes uh your risk management portfolio

meaning you start buying things in the name of something else and uh uh your estate plan

and the three of those things work together uh you need to have the entities built in such a way that they serve the estate plan but also serve risk management and so that that's where you know you're going to start to spend some money on defense yes and on diligence to keep the government's hands off to keep a target off your butt that kind of stuff but

you know it's such a small dollar very competitive very few times do i would i suggest it would be highly unusual for me to suggest more than a 5 million umbrella an umbrella only covers liability too it doesn't cover anything else so it's not it's not covering the property itself you get covered with traditional insurance yeah but the umbrella it just attaches to the liability limits on

the top of your car policy the top of your liability limits on your car policy the top of the liability limits on your homeowner's policy extends them out another million dollars and at 250 bucks somewhere around there all kinds of everyday millionaires out there so if this is something that rings true for you i want you to go to daveramsey.com and click on the insurance elp and start to have that conversation like

this is the time to get those things in place yep sean is in bloomington indiana hey sean welcome to the ramsay show hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up yeah so my wife and i are in a very unique situation uh these past couple weeks she works for

an esop company and they just recently got bought out by another company so all the employees are being paid out in their vested shares wow

so my question is we have the option to

take out a distribution up to 40 of the

payouts of the vested shares and my

question is do we take some of that out to pay off all of our debt including the house and then roll over the rest in the 401k option that they're providing with the company or um should we just

roll everything over into the 401k

so it is all pre-tax is that what you're saying um no the tap you will start to pay the

taxes on on the vested shares but um yeah

and so you can't roll it into a 401k

then if it's not pre-taxed it can't be rolled into a 401k

um yeah they're based on the paperwork

here um they're giving us the option to

um i guess move it into a 401k

i i'm still looking at all the paperwork here but yeah i double checked it because typically what they would do sean in that scenario they would allow you to take what you own in stock and then purchase new stock of the new company

okay like it may not be a traditional 401k but just double check that but i'm going to tell you buddy how much debt do you guys owe on right now outside of your home uh we all want two vehicles

how much money is this transfer gonna be worth it's 1.477 million

this is her part correct

wow i love it congratulations woo-hoo

seriously we feel like that we've won the lottery yeah okay here's what you need to do you don't need to ask two goobs on the radio you need to get some tax advice okay i want you to get some detailed tax advice because there's too much money involved here i can't tell exactly what you've got from the way you're describing it and i'm afraid i'm going to mess you up as far as taxes number one i want to get the money out of that single stock as fast as i can into mutual funds

now you can do that inside of a 401k inside of a rollover to an ira or if you've got the ability to just

take the money out and only pay the taxes on the gain uh

i can't tell what what is available to you to shelter it so what i would do if i were in your shoes let's play this through let's pretend this is pre-tax because it sounds like it may be okay and they're going to convert it to stock and then i'm going to convert that stock into mutual funds inside the 401k

as fast as i can if you can move it

instead of the 401k into an individual

traditional ira with no taxes i'm going

to do that with the bulk of this and i'm going to

pull out 400 grand and just pay taxes on it because i think there's not going to be penalties on it and pay off your house and your cars what's your home mortgage uh we currently owe 126 000.

okay so 200 grand plus some taxes

gets you out of debt 100 right correct out of 1.7 i'm definitely doing that unless you're getting hit with the 10 penalty plus your tax rate and i don't think you are i think you're gonna get taxed at a capital gains rate with no i again you're going to have to get some professional tax advice because i'm going to screw this up but yes i unless you're getting absolutely hammered on

the withdrawal then i would pull enough out to be debt-free and i would roll the rest of it into mutual funds into the 401k and i would move it into

some in an individual ira

rollover if i can get with one of the smart investor pros and get online and get with one of our tax pros if you don't have one in your back pocket both of them are ill or the elp for taxes and the smartvestor pro for investing they both can tell you exactly what you've got because i can't tell how this esop was set up i can't either

and i want everybody else to calm down out there because this is not how these normally play out this is the best version of this story well it's an employee stock option program i mean he stopped and the thing just went bananas it did they got lucky wonderful but don't leave your money in the new company stock any longer than you have to run uber high risk here

i want you to get out of that and get into some diversified investments where you can calm your risk down and that way this money's gonna still be sitting there that's right congratulations that's so thrilling this is the dave ramsey show

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today matt and jamie are with us in sioux city iowa hey guys how are you we're good dave how are you better than i deserve i see on my screen you're debt-free congratulations thank you we're excited how much have you paid off eighty one thousand two hundred forty three dollars and ninety three cents love it how long did that take roughly 16 months good for you and your range of income during that time um so our primary jobs have us right

about 50 take home um and then the um four or five side

hustles that we did throughout that time brought us up to about 80.

wow four to five you guys are after it

goodness what kind of uh debt was the 81

000 uh so it was all student loans and 95 of it was probably me so how long you guys been married just about a year and a half okay so you get married and you started on this boom just like that huh pretty much when we were doing marriage prep my sister and her husband who have been married for a few years they introduced us to you um

so we started um you know reading your books listening to podcasts and we were engaged um and then the day after the wedding we got home and drained my bank account um and really just kind of started wow went after it very cool so the side

hustles left and side hustles to the right what was the most lucrative per hour the

best side hustle um i would say probably

i bartended a couple different places i would say the marina bar or even during the pandemic once things were shut down and matt and i were both working from home i started quilting and doing like t-shirt quilts and baby quilts and things like that and i got faster at it so that turned into pretty good you know per hour wage that is fantastic

uh it and looking at this so jamie did you kick-start this or did you guys kind of both come together and agree we both really agreed um i think matt

um because he was he was kind of the one that was bringing in the student loans um he got pretty intense about it and we started um you know even though we were still engaged and we hadn't combined our finances you know we were doing the monthly budget we were tracking everything we were spending um and so that was kind of um how i had

lived i mean i worked 40 50 hours a week during undergrad so i didn't have student loans um and so once we got married we were

really on the same page which made it a lot easier yeah that's fantastic i mean when you guys are in this thing together you know people rowing in the same direction get to destinations faster so very proud of you who encouraged you all during this during this time um i would definitely

say like jamie said her sister and her brother both of our parents were very much in

tune with it as well they were big supporters of us and um you know just her and i like

like she said we got very serious about this our first year we did not live with heat or ac um one day it got to 49 degrees one night and we just we powered through it and now we are currently living in a funeral home to save on rent so we're we're all in on this whole thing so it's it's pretty pretty crazy we got quite a story to tell wait a minute here hold on just a minute are

you all working at this funeral home or living there um a little bit of both that's i guess you can count that as one of my five jobs um it's you know it's just kind of as needed basis on whatever they need help with but um i it was one of my gigs when i was in college and then when we moved back to the area you know friends of ours had run

this funeral home and they said hey do you want to live there in exchange for some extra hours that you're going to help us so yeah you know hard to turn that down well okay no it's not

hey you all are all in for sure yeah you'll be telling your grandkids yeah we lived in the funeral home that's how we there's only there's only been one really ghost story so we're doing pretty well for having lived there for a year and a half so we're happy with it wow that's one too many but i'm good yeah all right i'm even more impressed with you all now

i was before but now i think i think jamie comes from a family that believes in working really hard yeah i mean her family's been farmers for a long time and when i got there it was um like jamie had already had this figured out on what what work is and what you need to get done and um we need to spend money you need to have money

and we don't do much of the spending so that's kind of what i learned and um yeah now we're now we're killing it yeah so what do you guys tell people the keys to getting out of debt are um

i would say um to be on the gentle edge of just grow up i would say you have to stop buying into this myth of instant gratification um i think that's something that our society has kind of manipulated people into thinking that you know everything is just right there and it's kind of what you said just do what feels good um you know you have to kind of get over that

and work towards something bigger and and get rid of that you know instant gratification um that was the biggest thing i think for us because there would be weekends that we would work 40 45 hours in a three-day span and we would make seven or eight hundred dollars but i didn't want to go to dairy queen to spend six dollars to cap off the weekend like we were just kind of

so um you know

gazelle intense that you know we just really didn't want to break from that um and we really looked kind of beyond that fleeting moment well done well adults devise a plan and follow it children do what feels good you're right yeah that's just absolutely vital so well done how does it feel now that you're there

i mean it's incredible we're starting to you know jamie's going to go to school here again pretty soon and we're already cash flowing that um you know it's just been part of the process she got her master's degree we cashflowed our wedding our honeymoon i mean it's just that's how we're going to start doing things and continue to do things so it's incredible that we don't have to pay student loans every single month that that chunk of change is coming out automatically it's it's awesome to see that

the hard work we put in is staying in our bank account and we get to use it how we want to yeah proud of y'all very proud of you well done well hey we're going to give you a copy of chris's book everyday millionaires and i'm also going to give you some tickets to the friday night valentine's weekend

special where john deloney and rachel cruz are doing a money and marriage event so we're going to give you some tickets for that you guys you guys need a night off i'm just saying wow

yeah weekends with bernie and everything oh my gosh unbelievable wow so you guys are impressive so well done you're absolute rock stars i'm proud of you very proud of you all right it is matt and jamie 81 000 dollars paid off in 16 months making

50 to 80. and uh there's a great place to go when you're broke to work they proved it well done count it down let's hear a debt-free scream

three

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

i love it i love it wow all right madison pick up and get him a copy of chris's book plus get him a copy of this upcoming event it is this coming friday february the 12th the marriage and money event with rachel cruz and dr john deloney talking to you about the money and marriage connection the communication one of the things we have found over the years for those of

you that are married it is absolutely vital that you're on the same page with money it changes your relationship it changes the probability of your wealth building occurring everything it's only thirty dollars twenty dollars was the early bird ticket so it's only thirty dollars a ticket and uh you can enjoy this live stream

and uh this coming friday at 7 p.m

central no matter what your marriage looks like right now we can help you achieve better unity and communication at the special valentine's

edition of money and marriage streaming live to your home friday february 12th at 7 p.m and again

dr john deloney rachel cruz one thing for sure if those two are speaking there will be humor oh they're going to have fun the two of them are good they're just funny we may have to be there to make sure they do what they're doing yeah we gotta hit the stuff they just get to cutting up but listen i don't know anybody else that does that stuff no not

you and i we are straight laced that's right we stay with the business always we never we never stray never weekends with bernie twice or two or three times an hour here's the deal if you're a part of ramsay plus you better get on over there and reserve your seat because you get a chance to check it out for fun free it's a part of your membership man check

it out this is how it works date night this is how it works i love it this is the ramsey chef

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsay show thank you for joining us the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five adam is

in valdosta georgia hi adam how are you hey dave hey chris

thanks for taking my call sure how can we help i'm in a position

where um with my career i'm trying to go back to school and get a degree to further my career and i'm in a

position where it's possible that i may have to go into debt to get this degree um

with my career classes can be transferred over into credit into this specific university online university and

there's no way i this is the only one that moves all the classes i've ever taken into college credits so i'm trying to struggle because i'm i'm doing my debt snowball i'm struggling with handling the debt that i have and trying to stay debt-free for my degree and what's your degree what's your degree field i'm trying to get a bachelor's or four-year degree in business administration okay and how much do you lack

um i have depending on how many

credit hours my classes for my career move over i have only my core classes so i'm fairly fresh into it so you got like three years of work left yeah i mean right and i could cut i could cut that in half almost if i go to this university because it'll transfer all my career stuff over so you'd have a year and some change left you be in your senior year or late in your junior year correct okay

all right and what do you do for a living i'm a firefighter okay how old are you i am 26.

okay and so the business degree does what for you it allows me for it's one of our uh

requirements for promotion in the future

as a firefighter you need a business degree uh as a higher level administration level

uh chief oh actually okay yeah

it's a further down on my career path yeah all right and how many years before you would be eligible for that um position if you had this

degree if i had the degree i would say [Music] roughly five to ten years

it's rough to say but at least five yeah

okay and um how many colleges are in valdosta um three i believe

okay yep three yeah and you're

the one you're looking at though is online correct not one of those three no uh this is the

only this university or the online university is the only one that moves all my clients i got that part i got that part have you talked to all three of the others i have

okay because they are much cheaper than

the online yes a fourth aren't they

uh roughly yeah yeah so that's what you're doing you're either gonna go over there and talk one of them into this and uh appeal i mean sit down in the president's office just stroll your butt in there and sit down and go i'm getting ready to move everything to an online and pay too much for this degree because you guys won't transfer these credits so we've got to figure out something

because this is crazy i would rather keep the money here in our community i'm a firefighter here in this community i'd rather keep the money here in the community and support our local college and it's better for me to say i graduated from this local community and it is by the way right yeah you're not going to go into debt and go online matter of fact i think

the online idea is just a bad idea because i think you're paying way too much for the stinking degree that you don't need for seven years

right so i would just nix that and i i

think you just got to do some politicking on the transfer because the thing is these are small colleges this isn't like you're trying to go the freaking harvard and get them to waive your you know accept your credits right this is valdosta state or whatever it is for god's sakes i mean it's not like it's it's not a i'm not putting it down i'm you'll probably get a great education

there but my point is you'll have access to people probably that have an open mind oh by the way they they actually want students need students they definitely i'm going to go in there and find out what the appeals process is or who i have to appeal to or who who needs to stroke a agreement an executive order waiving this or i don't know how it works even

i wish dr john was here because he would know because it baffles me because even with a community college they will take their credits not give you the grades some some of them but i mean i'm going to communicate adam take the opportunity or the thought of going into debt off the table exactly that's what i want you to do just because right now you've got that looking like it's

the only option to you and it's really not i'd much rather you go have that conversation go low and slow as you're going part time and it take you longer to get the degree with avoiding debt we got 43 million people walking around with 1.7 trillion in student loan debt you you don't want to go there yeah and all and a percentage of them whining at the top of their lungs expecting

the government to forgive their debt now um we've got the um the lefties you know going bananas on this stuff now and so oh we should all have it forgiven we should know and so you know i'm going to be telling you no no no no no no now the other question

that i would bring into play here

i understand that you need the knowledge

pieces to be an administrator in a leadership position that high that the the business leadership but um

i might even challenge that the degree is a hundred percent a prerequisite for you moving up into those roles [Music] i think if you could exhibit and show the knowledge that was in place right you probably might you'd be eligible for that as well i i actually have never run into that before but that doesn't mean that you're not correct i'm just saying i haven't run into

it and so it does make sense it's logical sense that to be in an administrative role as senior chief of the chief of uh fire chief for the whole county or whatever that kind of a thing that you would need some uh organizational administrative

uh skill sets that you would get in a four-year business degree that's right that's logical to me i'd even have the conversation with the chief there to find out can i enroll in the national guard well or will they pay for it yeah i mean i want to have the conversation on this to find out and understand it more uh but adam thanks for reaching out buddy that's very cool

you can hear it's heavy on your heart you need some more options and to have some conversations and keep gathering information the the trick is as chris said take the debt off the table it's not an option and then from there what are we going to do we've got to find another way to get this goal accomplished and that's what i keep poking out around the edges here what are

the options to still accomplish the goal with no debt yeah and and you know either cash flowing it national guard fire department ships in

i don't care it doesn't matter to me i hate that you would pay four times more because you can't get the local college to accept the transfer credits yeah which is illogical by the way on top of that so it means you got a good case as far as i'm concerned brenda is with us in oklahoma city hi brenda welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi thank you um i want you to rethink if

you would buying personal defense insurance

because um i'm single i live alone

and i don't live in the best neighborhood and i've already bought it in all actuality and my son is a firm believer in you

he's coming home next month he's helping

me go through my budget because he's already succeeded with yours what are you paying for this oh 179 a

year and you make he's gonna go um

right oh about 30 000 a year that's a lot of money for you and so basically if you pull your handgun out and shoot a bad guy this is supposed to protect you it would because well i actually know the company yeah it's a really good company there's there are some legitimate companies in that space and there are some companies that cover about half of what they say they're going to cover too so um i

mean i live in tennessee i i'm a handgun enthusiast i collect guns yeah uh i carry every day

um i don't have it and i make a lot more than thirty thousand dollars uh but the biggest insurance i've got is i'm going to run because i'm not pulling that gun out right i'm going to run right i'm going to run like like my head's on fire yeah so i i if you want to buy it it's okay with me i mean it's not the other world it's a lot of money for

you honey and i might think about spending 179 on moving um you know some other things like that there's some other things to look at but i you have the you give the impression as if this is somehow going to fix everything if you shoot somebody it's not it's not it's going to ruin your [Applause] [Music]

life [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsay solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice i am dave ramsey your host chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five eric starts off this hour in erie pennsylvania hi eric how are you

hi i'm doing well dave how are you doing better than i deserve how can we help

so i'm 19 years old i'm a full-time college student and i've just started um listening to your show i just got my car paid off so i have zero debt and i got into college with a

lot of scholarships and i'm also very very fortunate to have a college fund so i will be graduating with no debt um

i've been working hard throughout high school and college since i was 15 and i have about four thousand dollars

saved up between my savings and investments and my question is should i start contributing to my roth ira or should i wait until i'm out of college and i've started my career man you're a rock star well done yeah you're very well done congratulations i'm proud of you man very well done um here's the thing you have plenty of

time after graduation to begin your retirement investing so if you graduate from school get your first gig your 401k roth there or your roth iras and start from there on you're go and you keep doing that from 22 until you're through your working lifetime you're going to be a multi millionaire plus you are not afraid of hard work and you've been very intentional with your money very wise beyond your years

and so if you don't get crazy you're going to be a multi multi multi millionaire because it's the way you're wired up is you're heading in that direction already the best insurance that you have the best

income is for you to finish your degree and finish it without debt as long as the degree is something that's applicable and there's a job market for it what are you studying [Music] um i'm studying communication sciences and disorders and i'm going to go for a master's degree in speech language pathology phenomenal excellent excellent so

that is going to afford you an excellent income would you agree yes okay so um translation

the money that you would put into a roth the end of good mutual funds the money it would make in the next three years compared to what you are going to be worth as a result of graduating with this degree is is not even on the same chart you

are a much better investment than a roth in mutual funds are yep to finish your studies now i understand you've got it mapped out with scholarships and with a college fund that you're going to go through debt free i heard that clearly and i heard that you have twenty four thousand dollars it wouldn't make me mad in other words if you didn't start your roth until after graduation and instead

ended up with i'm going to make up a number 50 000 bucks in an account when you graduate you can start investing some of that money then you can use it for transition into your new career and move cities and all that kind of a thing have a fully funded emergency that's like an insurance policy to ensure that eric graduates debt-free yeah and eric what about the masters are

you going to be paying for that or is your college fund going to pay for it um my college fund is going to be paying for it it's great i'm actually in a five-year program so i've already been accepted into the master's degree program and i know exactly how much it's going to cost not bad also roll over

so um i will be graduating 100

debt free well i'm proud of you buddy and here's the beauty of it while your college friends might be eating ramen noodles you can upgrade okay you got some money uh but be smart and like dave said graduate have 50 000 sitting there ready for you to jump start life and be just hyper intentional moving forward then eric even if you wanted to park some of it into an investment say like a uh

an index fund okay an s p 500 fund a no

load fund something like that if you want to park some of it there and begin some investing that's okay i just wouldn't put it in a retirement product like a roth or a 401k because

my big goal for you is to finish this wonderful track you put yourself on and uh man you've gotten some really good coaching and advice and you you know you're a very very sharp young man great job buddy excellent excellent work angel is in tampa florida hi angel how are you

hey good afternoon david chris uh thank you for taking my call sure how can we help well i have two

questions one i want to start with i have an rv

that i purchased uh and i'm on my baby

step two and i it's i owe 255 it's probably worth

45 so my question is in baby step 2 do i

just get away or find a way to get rid

of it even if i have to carry or maintain some kind of you know balance yes

okay yeah what do you make a year

uh 72. yeah yeah this thing's insane

what's the payment on it oh it's nuts it's 500. yeah yeah forever 500 months yeah

so what yeah you you're gonna end up with a ten thousand dollar unsecured loan at your credit union or your bank to cover the deficit that you're in at and because you've got to cover that difference in order to sell it and get the title correct correct or the rv company okay or if the rv company will carry it for you yeah then i would let you do that as well

but yeah you need to get rid of it and you're gonna have to cover the difference so but it's better to be ten thousand dollars in death and fifty five hey absolutely and the five hundred dollars you've been used to paying that's gonna allow you to again you're gonna go to that snowball route make minimum payments on everything but the small one and once you chop that down you're coming on down

and angel you're gonna change your kind of financial situation uh with that but go talk to a credit union or your bank because this has to be unsecured in order to release the title from the rv company yeah or if the whoever you've got the rv loan with if they will agree to just let you sign a note for the difference if you've already got the loan over at your local credit union for instance or over at your local bank

you can get them to just allow you to sign a note for the difference and and you pay payments on that and put it into your debt snowball but again it's easier to get out of ten thousand than 55 and and owning a 55 000 vehicle that's

going down in value like a rock sitting in your driveway when you make 75 is a mathematical using it twice a year crazy land yeah

no it's got to go you gotta get rid of it you don't own any rvs i don't why uh i i

i waste my money on other things

i do waste money i mean because i own two boats and two seadoos that right there will offset us rv right and so i mean i got two ski boats but but again they're a very small percentage not only of my net worth but of my income but they are also used and and well um the one of them when i bought it i bought one of them new no no

i meant they're used throughout the year oh you're always i'm you know riding around behind that boat all the time but yeah but but i mean he may be using the rv he don't know he's not using it but um the

abode and rv all these things are toys right and there's nothing wrong with having a side-by-side or you know getting a snowmobile or whatever it is you want to get this a toy but all the things that you number one you'll pay cash for it and all the things that you own with wheels motors on them they go down in value so they should add up to no more than half your annual income

because otherwise you have too much juice tied up and stuff going down instead of yeah that's not good pretty simple math formula this is the day the ramsay show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease it was just such a relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of chm is the original and longest serving health cost sharing ministry get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash

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chris hogan ramsey personality

is my co-host today thank you for joining us this is the ramsay show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five tony is with us in sioux falls south dakota hi tony welcome to the ramsey show how can we help good

afternoon gentlemen thanks for taking my call sure hey my question is i get a uh my company leases a vehicle back from me

i'm currently on steps four five and six and it's about eight hundred and fifty dollars a month and it the over the last ten years i've

used that fund i've just put it in a savings account and gained zero interest on it to buy my vehicle with cash every time and i'm just looking at i'm wondering what to do with that money this time around if it's a money market mutual funds savings account what's the best option

well if you put it into a mutual fund you stand the probability of it going down in value not just up right correct and i know you say

if they're not going to leave it in five years and not go into a mutual fund yeah um this last this last time it was actually about five and a half years when i used the funds well i mean you could you could split it up and you could put half into a s p 500 and a half into a money market and then you're not putting

it all at risk of going down if you want to try to let it earn a little bit um the trick is that the system is what's going to save your butt not the fact that you had it invested

okay how much money are what you're talking you're talking about you said 800 a month and you're putting it all aside for car replacement right

correct it's about ten thousand dollars a year and at the end of the uh i usually run the vehicles to about two hundred two hundred and fifty i'd like to run them as long as they can and uh let's say over that five year

period of time then let's say it averaged twenty five thousand dollars because fifty thousand in five years so it averages median the median point is 25k and so if

you make 10 percent on 25k that's 2500.

uh which does not impact a fifty thousand dollar situation that much

okay so what you earn on this money is not as important as the fact that you have a system to keep yourself from going into debt

so it would be okay to earn nothing then as long as i'm continuing with yeah because it's the the investment but if you were going to leave it alone 20 years and you left it at one percent well that'd be ludicrous right yeah yeah and tony i mean you've got an opportunity to be able to put half of that aside for car replacement you could throw the other half your cedro on four five

and six you could throw that toward the mortgage you know the point is you want the money to work for you don't put any more in this car replacement fund then you need to replace the car right and so whatever the schedule is on that and again if you want to just just to dial it up a little bit move half of it into mutual funds and into an s p 500

and the other half just let it ride on a thing i mean

let it ride in a money market account but but the whatever you earn on it even if you earn really good money is not going to substantially change your life what is substantially changing your life is you've been smart enough to avoid debt and you have a system to replace these cars as you after you wear them out and you are destroying them because you're the number of miles you're putting on them

i mean you're just wearing them out and that's uh your road warrior as part of the cost of doing business in your world nothing wrong with that but at least you've figured out how to admit it and uh that's pretty cool and you also figured out the 800 a month doesn't cover all your costs so uh they're they're they're giving you some money but they not giving

you a company car you've been better off with a company car uh a lot better off all right dave is with us in

dallas hi dave welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hey dave i'm uh

trying to determine whether or not i should do a deferred income annuity

why would you do that well

my financial person

suggested it because i'm real fearful fearful of the other market crash and

she's like well you know if the market

crashes you know the he's losing the value of our retirement right now i'm i'm retired uh my wife is fixing to retire

i'm 58 how much money started retired at

55 and uh how much money is it got 2.3

and you're fearful that the market is going to completely destroy well not completely but uh you know

half and then if i'm withdrawing

and where in history have you seen it do that yeah okay uh you're right you're right uh

or 30 i guess and where in history have

you seen it do that i thought 2008 was somewhere around there no it was half the dow went from 13 to 6 700. okay

and it was back in a year right

and now it's not 6700 or 13. it's 30

000 right correct okay

so unless you have a need for 2.5 million dollars at the bottom of the market you would not embrace the 30 loss you would ride it out wouldn't you yes even though i'm going to be withdrawing you know 10 grand a month which is a whole 120 000 a year that's not even the growth okay

okay dave listen yes sir listen my friend you are an everyday millionaire you have been intentional in growing this money you're going to be fine i i listen

the thing is this okay i understand

that the world is unraveling out here in front of us i'm watching it too i'm not disagreeing with you about that but we we dr daloni talks about when we're in a crisis situation or when we're in a situation facts are our friends not fear

and if the facts say if there's some

actual facts that indicate that we're going to have a substantial market drop and it's going to maintain and it's going to stay down there then we would have this discussion i don't have any of those facts the only thing i've got is i don't like the socialist tendencies that are in dc right now

i don't like the idea of heavy taxation i don't like what they're going to do to the economy uh overall i don't think it's going to be pleasant but i don't think we're going to see a market correction of 30 percent i'm 60 i have pulled zero

out of the market due to my being upset

about the current world that i live in does that make sense yes so while i have those emotions i have to gauge the actual facts of the history to do that so

all of that said i'm not sure i would do a deferred income annuity i might do a variable annuity and a variable annuity

will give you principal protection and a floor of a minimum gain

or minimum increase in value usually five percent six percent and you're invested in vehicles that are gonna make you ten to twelve on average but if the market really tanked you'd have principal protection

and you would have uh uh

you know a floor for the earnings and so if if that will make you sleep better at night you're going to pay an extra fee for that variable annuity that you really don't need it doesn't give you anything that you need except that peace of mind that you're looking for so you're paying for that now would i move the whole two million dollars in there absolutely not

but but what i move in your case if you still think this through and you still are worried about it uh you know then you know you might move 500 700 in there maybe move a third of your of your net worth into that it's not a bad place because you can put it in good mutual funds you'll still have a similar growth rate you're just going to have a higher expense ratios okay

and when you pull money out of it it's no longer going to be taxed at uh well it's it's it's all in 401ks anyway isn't it correct yeah you're going to be tax ordinary income anyway when you come out but um no oh i'm sorry

right now no mine's not in 401ks

all of mine is or the majority of mine

is in um high rates okay

but if you have non you see you're taxed at ordinary income when you pull it out of a traditional ira and so when you pull it out of this you're going to be tax ordinary income too so that doesn't harm you much if you're dealing with non-retirement money putting into a variable annuity you're going to change from capital gains taxation to ordinary income taxation which is something else to consider

but that's not your case yeah so maybe a third of it dave but the other thing i would do is i'd spend some more time learning about history and let facts be your friends even though we're scared

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host thank you for joining us america you're listening to the ramsey show i'm dave ramsey your host kyle is with us in fayetteville north carolina hey kyle how are you hey dave thanks for taking my call i got a quick question about uh a little bit of extra money that i got where i should be putting it i say i should be putting it extra towards my mutual funds my wife wants to pay off the rental properties your wife would be right

so even if i plan on selling those

rental properties when i retire out of the military in four years we'll go and sell them now

i could do that okay

but they're they're they're they're still making me a little bit of money and so when i retire i think the key here is a little bit yeah but kyle think about it that same mindset you have of wanting to put the money into mutual funds for it to be able to grow long-term for you if you go ahead and sell them now and take that equity finish cleaning up whatever debt you have and now you invest that now you're on a serious long-term growth plan yeah here's the thing

you're not really making any money on these rental properties are you

um not real money i mean i'm making

close to 750 a month off the rentals and it's paying down the mortgage and you know building equity 750 minus vacancy minus repairs

yes yeah so

you know really we're talking about three or four thousand dollars a year

and you're how far in debt on the rental properties uh total it's four 437.

437 thousand dollars worth of risk to make three thousand dollars a year

that does not make sense when you said a little bit of money i knew what you were talking about see i love real estate but real estate is not a good investment the way you've done it because this is probably it has as much chance of costing you money at the end of the story as it does making you money so i think you're both going to get your wish

i would sell the rentals now because i don't think they're a blessing and i want you to buy rentals later and pay cash for them in your wealth building journey but not this year and maybe after you get out of the military and maybe after you decide where you're going to settle and all of those kinds of things but right now i'm going to go ahead and invest that money into mutual funds like

you wanted to do yeah kyle thank you for your service by the way but i knew dave was about to do a math lesson on you i knew it because i've been around enough and i've heard it and unfortunately you know when we see it for what it is you see those numbers the real way and you start to identify you're only making about three grand a year

and taking on that level of risk you can quickly identify that it's not worth it well there is something that has risen up um in the um 20s

the 20 year olds 20 to 30 year olds even 20 to 35 year olds right now that we're seeing almost on a moment-by-moment basis in all of our interactions uh with you guys out there through broadcasting and through all the other ways we interact with you uh the positive is there's this tremendous that this generation whatever we're calling these 20-somethings has this tremendous entrepreneurial zeal in drive and this this this sense to be independent it's not greed driven it's uh initiative it's very positive

it really is it's a wonderful character attribute you've got that that's how you got these rental properties and that drive is causing these 20-somethings to do two things and oftentimes poorly

because they're doing them too quickly i did this in my 20s but i'm a boomer which now is a put down

but it used to be just a demographic but um but uh now i've got old man house shoes you know so there you go but the uh uh the the this wonderful

zeal this wonderful entrepreneurial zeal is causing these 20-somethings to buy real estate because i got to buy real estate i'm going to get rich in real estate i'm going to get rich in real estate man when i was in my 20s is when infomercials started oh that was

the beginning of infomercial oh yes i'm gonna get rich in real estate i'm gonna get rich in real estate and uh i grew up in the real estate business and so i went straight into i'm gonna get rich in real estate and i did i became a millionaire by the time i was 26 and uh the other it's driving this bitcoin craze it's driving this game stop crazy yes yes uh uh the same zeal is driving

people to do these things and to get out there and i'm gonna turn over i'm gonna do something i'm gonna get some i'm gonna and it's not greed it's the spirit on it i mean the my discernment says it's not greed it is initiative it's it's a positive ambition

but what caused what happened with me was i bought real estate that i couldn't afford i leveraged it i used totally borrowed money and i ended up with 4 million worth of real estate that i owed 3 million on so i had a million dollar net worth but it wasn't cash flowing and i was flipping it and it was barely cash flowing like his is barely cash flowing

this is why i know this math because i lived it right because i did the same thing only i did it with more zeros on the end it wasn't 400 000 is 4 million and it took me down because the bank got uh sold and called our notes and uh then i and i didn't have any cash

i was not in it they i had all these assets but there was no cash [Music] and when you do that with real estate is when you're gonna go broke not when you're gonna make a fortune in real estate and so real estate that does not have margin is not a blessing it's a liability and

investing in things that don't have margin or that are a high risk gamble play

is a misuse of your entrepreneurial ambitious zeal and so i love the zeal what i want to do is channel it with some wisdom and a process some wisdom yes and that is slow down a little bit yeah and pay cash and don't invest everything you have in super high risk crap um i mean and i i know there's stories

of people making money in bitcoin i know there's stories of people making money with gamestop we talked to one here on the other day i'm not saying it can't happen but i know stories of people made money at the roulette wheel too that's right i know people that made money on wheel of fortune but that doesn't mean our jeopardy i've got personal friends that that won and

they won 50 000 bucks or something but they didn't change their career to be game show operators right and they didn't put everything they had that didn't push all their chips to the center of the table on one hand to cards and that's what we're doing when we go into highly leveraged real estate into businesses with no margin or high risk investment plays and we act like it's a freaking game right

because we put all the chips in the table now if you've got a small percentage of your chips and you're going to lose those and it doesn't kill you that's different i don't even recommend that but i'm not going to make fun of you for that right i am going to call you out on the other because this this you know it leads to uh bad critical

thinking that okay real estate's a good investment so all real estate no matter how broke i am is a good investment that's right that's bad thinking skills it is and that's what happened with in the 90s with day trading uh it's what we're seeing now with bitcoin and gamestop uh but i'm going to tell you something dave i'm getting these callers calling in these millennials on my show the chris hogan show that are

saving and investing and following the plan and the trail is the foundations course they took in high school that they were either financial peace babies where their parents went through it taught them or they went through foundations and so they've got this learning foundation literally where they're thinking and following the process yeah it's encouraging i had people you know when i'm doing real estate deals i have people that thought i was a genius when i was buying all that real estate um except the old people and the old people

that had money kept looking at me going son you're too leveraged you got no cash this is going to catch up with you you're going to get a spanking you're going to get it and i kept going oh you're just old you don't understand this is a proper use of capital markets and i used all the cash flows you know i've got great internal rates of return

i have no cash right no liquidity i couldn't buy a freaking loaf of bread you know but i got four million dollars worth of real estate and so this idea that you can throw around all your arrogant little terms and all they show is your immaturity they don't show that i'm a dinosaur they show that you're a child that's all it shows and so the thing is

use this ambition this movement which is

so positive in this generation in a slower more methodical cash basis

way with high margins and then you're going to learn love real estate i got a bunch of real estate and i want you to have some too i just don't want to have you there it is

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well tax season is here

i know that's exciting oh goody dave

thanks for the help the reason i want to say that listen you got to do your taxes early the reason you do them early not in march or april is because you're going to be under far less stress and less stress means less mistakes plus if you actually owe taxes filing early means you can start saving or being ready to file early even if you need to

if you need to save up and wait until april 15th to actually pull the trigger on the file you'll at least know what the target is right if you need a tax pro you need to get with one right now before they get busy you get busy you know this is the sooner you reach out to a tax pro the better and that way your taxes get done way

before the deadline and then you can decide a strategy for this year and what you need to do text the word tax pro 23789

and we'll hook you up with one of our tax endorsed local providers text taxpro one word to

33789 and you'll find a tax pro that chris and i and all the ramsey personalities endorse and think are awesome seriously clemmy is with us clemmy is in atlanta georgia is it clemmy is that correct yes sorry how can we help hey how you

doing fellas hey so i've got a question i'm in a job that i love and with my uh career trajectory um i

plan on i'm assistant manager at the retail store and within the next year or so i'm gonna bump up to a store manager and wipe that out for another five years and stay with the company and go to um corporate office after that but my quandary is that i have

credit card quoted to me and it goes against everything that i believe in and i have to push these get stored

credit cards and i'm having a hard time um

doing my job effectively and also

and and also i don't want that to um hinder me from moving up within my company so i'm at a loss of what to do in this regard how long you been with him uh since 2016. so i'm going on five

years what do you make i'm at 60.

how big a knot is in your stomach

well listening to you every day doesn't help [Laughter]

sorry about that brother

my friend i crossed that same path and

here's the reality it is truly a matter of you coming to understand that the skill set that you've been blessed to have the way that you work the way that you serve customer service and sales that same skill set can be used elsewhere without you having to have a conflict of what you believe in and it's going to require you to have that thought process before you gain clarity and i would tell you what i did was i started to write down options where ca where else can i go and

help people and serve well without having to do something i don't believe in and i'm going to tell you in that industry it's not going to go away you're not going to be able to miss this in order to move up you're going to have to embrace it and and not only embrace it do it well so that's where you're going to have that crisis of kind of internal conflict you're going to have to change industries

but that doesn't mean you can still can't serve people now here two three things come to mind one is you've got a detailed career path laid out in your mind with this company so you're not abandoning a 60 000 your job that you hate no you're abandoning a dream that you've had yeah yeah if you leave this company and that's going to be very hard to do that's why

this conflict is so real and i'm not suggesting that you have to do this on principle you're calling and saying that the principles are that you feel like you're in conflict so one thing is i think you need to it's going to take you a little while and you don't have to panic and you're not stealing from you're not stealing bubble gum from little children i mean

this is not you know you're not you know you're just doing something that you don't feel good about that you wouldn't do for your own kids you wouldn't do for your mama and you know so you're violating your conscience in that regard and so but but it's not you're not you're not doing anything illegal you're not doing anything immoral uh so i would take my time and

work my way into a new dream

a new career path that uh that i can begin working on and so you know embrace some of ken coleman's materials at kingcoleman.com and you know the proximity principle book will give you a copy i'll have madison pick up and give you a copy so that's kind of thing one is there's a real emotional process that probably is going

to take more than 10 minutes okay if they came in and said you had to do something illegal that would take you about a minute and a half to walk out the door right absolutely but but this is not this is not that situation this is just a this is a rub is what this is but it's a rub it's like chris said it's not going away now the second thing is to embrace what

chris's portion of advice was one of my favorite books on business that i've ever read is by our friend rabbi daniel lapin and it's called thou shall prosper and rabbi lapin as you can obviously guess is a jewish orthodox rabbi and the book is the 10 reasons that jewish people have had a tendency to prosper throughout history beyond the population that they've been installed in and so for instance uh three percent of americans are jewish 67 percent of the forbes 400 is so these

are 10 principles we all want to know right those of us that aren't jewish but rabbi and i have become really good friends over the years and one of the 10 principles is that over a long period of

time it is almost impossible for someone to prosper doing something that they don't believe

to be morally correct yes

so it's going to be very difficult over the next 10 years for your dream path to actually occur

because you have this other you know knot in your stomach and you know and i'm sorry i put it there but i'm glad you recognized it i mean i i again i'm not pounding my fist and yelling that this company is horrible or something they're just a retail company selling credit cards they all do

and my goal is that one day uh enough americans wake up and realize that the credit card is basically the cigarette of the financial world that companies like this quit doing that because the public pressure forces them to like the public pressure is forced to change in smoking you know when i was growing up you could smoke on an airplane a metal tube with people in it full of smoke i mean it's just amazing in the air it's just and the funniest one was when

they went to no smoking sections yes as if as if as if the magic you were exhausted it's like the no p into the pool i mean you know it's like it doesn't go to the other end of the pool come on and so um you know but anyway that you know that's what's going to happen if as we continue to have more and more and more people understand that living debt-free is a fabulous way of doing

it it really is and chlamy i'm going to tell you that little knot that you have right now is only going to continue to grow so i am too but i'm excited for you the thing that that i got to was that it was a matter of the lord had something else for me to do and so having that awareness as dave said you do shift the dream

but you do understand that you're still able to serve people and use the skill set you've been blessed to have and that you've polished and so again we get ken's book we're going to send you a copy i want you to read it but start to lay out options and i'm proud of you for reaching out and talking about this early on it was something i struggled with

before i reached out to a mentor to discuss yeah i think the options is a big deal when you've got a new dream that is as detailed as your current dream oh man oh game changer in a different area that's not going to cause you these knots in your stomach yeah then making the change will be easy right now the idea of making the changes going from

this dialed in path to nothing yep and that's not a jump anybody can make emotionally if you're wise your emotions will stop you from doing that and they should so take your time and let's get a new dream detailed out

a new path that says i'm going to work here and then i'm going to be a store manager and then i'm going to be original manager and then i'm going to work in the home office and whatever it is i mean you had it laid out i mean you got it dialed in and uh but i i wish i could tell you that the big box whatever it is uh retailer home depot

they'll wake up uh lowe's uh whoever it

is you know walmart whoever it is i don't know who it is that i wish i could tell you they were going to quit pedaling credit cards soon enough for your dream to come true but they're not nope they're not um tarzan we're going to keep working on them at ramsay though yeah we are until we bother them enough that enough people start to realize that i think we can change and create a whole movement i think we are we are we are going to create a home

this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five jacob is with us in danbury connecticut hi jacob welcome to the day to the ramsey show how can we help hey dave chris uh thanks for having me how are you guys better than we deserve how can

we help um just got a question about a 401k investment retirement investment uh right now i have a traditional 401k and i'm looking to go to a roth 401k i just have a question on the best way to do that if i have to do it all at once with the taxes or if there's a steps i can take to kind of cut down on the amount of

i have to pay out yeah well the first thing is just stop doing new except roth let all your new contributions be roth from this point forward that's step one okay now how much is in your 401k in the traditional uh about 50 000 right now okay and what

baby step are you on i am on data stuff four okay then i would not convert the 50 000 until after your home is paid off okay because it's going to create about 12 000 in taxes and i would rather use those 12 000 for your five or six baby step

but later on when you're in baby step seven and you scratch up some extra cash then yeah go ahead and flip it uh flip it on over into the roth at that point but it won't hurt anything for it to sit there and grow as traditional for a couple of years while you get the house paid off okay um i i do have another question about mutual funds um right now i do have

a portfolio it's kind of a slow growth uh i'm just wondering what the best mutual fund that you would recommend to invest in non-retirement

non-retirement why would you have non-retirement um i don't know if if it's something that i may need to pull out of it or how much is in it i have about 70 000.

what's the balance on your home

about 70 huh i think we just found a use

for it jacob did you feel that

that was a seismic shift right there for

you buddy you have an advocate what do you make a year uh well this is actually the first year with a bunch of overtime i just pulled in about 120. way to go man and your debt-free house and everything i'm so proud of you game changer jacob yeah seriously

brother hey man cash it out pay off your house now let's take that house payment and let's uh save up twelve thousand dollars and convert the rest of that 401k to a roth and then let's start maxing everything out and uh then let's just start piling up some cash and being unreasonably outrageously generous you are so cool man he is seriously i mean a young man that has listened

and followed the principles uh is about 100 desperate i mean for the most part mostly you know but now he's got a chance to kind of right the ship and get himself from moving in the right direction so for clarification for those of you that are just kind of in the middle of you know what a baby step is but you're not sure about the nuances whatever money

you have in anything

that is not in a retirement account

should be liquidated and used for whatever step you are on yes step one's a thousand

dollars two is debt free everything but the house three is an emergency fund four is fifteen percent of your income going into retirement five is kids college if that's if that's applicable if not we head straight on to six and pay off the house that's how i did that right but non-retirement accounts dave can look like what a brokerage account a mutual fund investment seventy thousand dollars with a seventy thousand dollar mortgages an inheritance all of these things yeah

yeah the money is sitting there from you got some stock your grandpa gave you you got seven thousand dollars in savings bonds yeah granny gave you you've got five gold coins that you don't that you don't even know how you got them or why you got them or i don't know what it is what have you got that is just sitting around it's an investment use it for

the baby step that you're on because the shortest distance between where you are today and wealthy and outrageously generous is walking those baby steps exactly and as quickly as you possibly can don't change the recipe okay any times people tell me chris you know i'm following baby steps ish i'm doing ramsay-ish i'm like stop doing ish and do it yeah follow it to a t we've had millions of people get help why are

you overthinking the wheel it works hey we're even walking with our thousand team members this year yeah our internal vision for the year

is to walk the talk and so everybody's going through financial peace university again we're dialing in so that our own team members are not doing ish that's right and uh we're even doing t-shirts issues of wish hogan's got hogan saying on the t-shirt issues of wish i like it but seriously got an opportunity right now where you are uh to make a decision and if you're not a part of ramsey plus i'm telling

you right now get over there we are adding more information and more content at all times you have an opportunity to get connected with the events that we have via live stream because you're a member of ramsey plus so text the word trial to 33789

again the trial is the word text that to 33789 and come on in yeah if you're brand new the thing is that he he's right that we've got this whole thing we just installed it's in about in the last six months or so where the first 90 days we give you small consistent wins not just the baby steps but every little detail leading up into a baby step small consistent wins

these add up to big results and better habits and that means you're going to get where you want to be faster so free trial by texting

the word trial 23789

now if you're a member by friday night we've got the money and marriage event friday night and it is 30 if you want to watch it as a live stream rachel cruz and dr john dolone talking about marriage and money it'll be fun funny and informative uh great holla a great valentine's day gift but if you're a member ramsey plus it's free most of our live streams are free to ramsay plus members in addition to financial peace university in addition to premium version of every dollar all of that's all wrapped up

there to make sure you get what you need and that we're able to walk with you and show you how to do that but the trick is there's kind of a spillover effect you know like one of those water wheels coming around as the water fills up one area it moves one more time spills out and that's how the baby steps work it does any of the water that you've got

you put it in that bucket yeah until that bucket's full and it spills over the next one move on and then any other water you get whether it's from your budget or the gold coins in your safe or you're to sell i don't know grandpa's whatever i don't know what it is this thing you've been hanging on to it really is not an asset it's just sitting over

there on its butt looking at you and the only thing we don't do is we don't cash out retirement to do that because of the penalties and the taxes are so heavy and it makes it just it takes the fun out of it you got a great opportunity change your future change your mindset and if you change your mindset i'm telling you you can change your life yeah

so come over to ramsey plus check it out jacob's in a great place yes he is he's debt free house and everything you just helped him if he does what we told him to do he better follow the directions today jay right now don't make us come to connecticut please no it's cold i can't go up there i can't go up please don't make me nope i'll text people

please i don't i'll do anything jacob

i would almost pay off your house to keep from coming not really

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception

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[Applause] chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today we invite your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for

yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you save even more use the magic word the promo code ramsey all right today's question comes from dave in kentucky uh he says i lost my wife in december of 2020.

once she's 18. wow

well i'm dave i'm so sorry to hear about your loss my friend um that's tough and i can't imagine uh what you're going through i hope you've got a good church and good friends around you but looking at this this dollar amount this 858 survivor benefits coming in this has got to become part of your budget uh you're going to use this to raise your daughter yeah what whatever whatever baby step you're on

and if you'll follow the stuff we teach by the time she's 18 you'll you will have fully funded her college fund and she'll have a lot more than a hundred thousand dollars and you will have become wealthy

over that 20 years and she will have a lot more than a hundred thousand dollars and so there's not any moral ethical nor legal obligation for you to set this money aside in her name you spend more than 858 raising a kid a month anyway and so just put it into your budget and work your budget because we're counting on you to be a great dad and anytime you work your budget it is for the good of you and your family yeah and so your daughter is going to more than benefit

far beyond what the 858 dollars would have done right by you doing the right thing people struggle with this child support i should set it aside no it's all part of the budget because you spend more than those dollar figures on kids anyway yeah just to raise them yeah no without a doubt i mean the percentage of the the roof replacement the percentage of the electric bill

the percentage of the insurance that the kid rides in the car the cost of the car the value of the loss in the car uh the kid is receiving the benefit of all of that and this is called raising your children in a family it's what it is and so mathematically you spend a lot more than that on the kids portion

of your life yeah and so there's no

you've done nothing wrong uh

by not setting it into a separate account and as a matter of fact setting it into a separate account i think would be wrong yeah it's the improper use of it it's not the most efficient use of the money so good question natalie is in canada hi natalie welcome to the ramsey show hi

dave thank you for taking my call

um i'm trying to figure out a few things but the main thing is whether or not to uh try and get my

husband on board with selling our house i've brought it up a few times but he really doesn't want to sell it at a loss we moved uh a year ago about

an hour and a half away from his current work he planned on getting job job around where we live we live in the middle of nowhere um with the intention of being able to grow our own food and just be out in the country again where we both kind of grew up and um anyway it hasn't happened yet he's trying but uh it hasn't happened we just realized we were expecting another so we've got one toddler and another on the way um so he has a job it's just an hour away

an hour and a half yes so he's traveling about three hours a day but the income is uh he takes home about

uh 31 000 and some uh 30

almost uh 31 200 a month

and um we don't have any

um uh real issues i suppose with

spending that we're aware we don't you know we don't have any money subscriptions we don't have any money no we don't have any money

thirty one thousand in the three hour drive a day i know where your money and babies i mean you're only any money no i i don't know how to convince them we're we're both believers um unfortunately because of covet all the churches are shut down the one we did get to know it's closed now and we really haven't developed any sense of community around here how much do you owe on the home natalie

okay uh so so far we have

we oh it's around

two hundred and eighty thousand okay uh

it was 300 just under 350 000 when we lost how are you making a payment on that making 31 grand

well we're losing we're leaving every month how um we

yeah i would guess how much is your house one payment one hundred and eighty three dollars

and how much do you all have in savings right now oh we're burning through it uh we've probably got yeah right now brought a thousand nine

hundred left to our names in liquid

and you're burning how much no um

we are burning i don't just found two got all kinds of papers in front of me um two thousand seven hundred and seven

dollars and forty so you don't even have a month left oh really no not really i mean two thousand over nineteen hundred you don't have any money left yeah i don't know what to do i don't know what to do um i'm trying to okay i don't know let me okay i'm a little bit confused let me let me stop i i don't want to i don't want to take your side and jump

all over him right now but that's how i'm no no that's how i'm feeling i don't like well because this is absolutely asinine that you guys have let this that you've let this burn down to this y'all should have been out there six months ago i agree and so i don't i don't understand why we're in denial about math what's his problem he doesn't want to show that a loss i don't care he's going to lose it to foreclosure i know but you said you bought it at 350 correct and it's now you owe 280.

down and really sitting down with him trying to hold his hands and i want you to schedule i've scheduled a a real estate agent to come over here tomorrow night because tonight we're about to have a come to jesus meeting the math is over we cannot that we cannot pretend anymore you've got your head stuck up something i don't know what it is and it's got to come out yeah

this is ridiculous and put put his hand on your belly and let him know you've got another baby coming this is crazy time time is on the edge i have i have he's even finished your book we bought your book on amazon he read it he's so excited so gung-ho he's not going to look for more jobs now but it's it's just not it's not about jobs it's about

this house is gone yeah yeah yeah it's gotta be it's a three-hour drive with a pregnant wife who's scared and he's out of money this house is gone

sell it before you lose it yeah what do we do do we rent or um you move to town and rent when we

went there it was eighteen hundred a month you're gonna have to get other jobs but listen what your your little dream of living in the country and growing veggies has turned into a nightmare yeah yeah i know and so something's got to change we can you cannot stay where you are yeah it's not going to work now then the only question is where are we going right

and you got to start figuring that out as a next step but this i i i don't know what you were waiting on were you waiting on the housing ferry to show up i mean it's not this isn't you know unless you were going to have an income all of a sudden start appearing that's double yours it's not gonna work this is not gonna work it's not gonna go

and so natalie the urgency you hear in our voice is that we don't want you all hanging out for another two to three months you don't have that you're never gonna come get the house yeah you don't have that time so i would much rather you all make a proactive decision reach out to your lender have a real conversation get the real estate agent the real estate elp over tomorrow

you are moving yeah voluntarily

or otherwise you are moving

much rather you be in control

this is where you are and so let's face it and decide what we're going to do where are we moving because we're moving yeah this house is gone i'm so sorry i'm sorry you guys have been through this but you've i you got to deal with it you

cannot you cannot not deal with it anymore

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five drew

is with us in chicago hi drew welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi how are you great it's a pleasure to speak with both of you too um so uh my wife and i uh have been

davis for years uh last march i was able to get my wife

a hundred percent on board uh i'm sure the pandemic had a little bit to do with that um so uh we started using the every dollar budget uh which allowed us to pay off our uh only vehicle loan um got rid of all the credit cards that we had wonderful um cash flowed three kids uh

braces we've got a fully funded

emergency fund now how does that feel oh it feels fantastic

good fantastic how's it feel to her

i'm sorry i said how does it feel to her oh uh she's she's wondering why we didn't

start it earlier

it was your fault say i told you so it was your fault drew i'm sure i'm not i don't know exactly how but i'm sure it was your fault drew do not say i told you so never

gonna work right i wrote all right good good so

um so we have college coming up uh i have uh my three kids are 15 uh excuse me 17 15

and 14.

we have 27 000 left on the mortgage

um and uh based on uh

some advice you just gave jacob a little while ago i think part of my answer uh question was answered um i i do have a non-retirement brokerage

account that i had 77 000 in

so i'm basically i was trying to figure

out what to do with that should i pay off the 27 000 mortgage

should i open and fully fund

uh two roth retirement funds for my wife

and i um what's your household income um

uh it's it's right at about 175.

excellent okay so here here's the here's the uh the hinge pin mathematically for your whole situation that'll set you guys free you need to sit down and map out for all three kids what you need what they need for college and how you're going to do that and when

you see that number and you see how you're going to do it it's going to set you free to do the other stuff because here's what's happening if i'm in your shoes i'm you tell me if i'm wrong but i think this is what how i would be feeling if i was sitting there i got this brokerage account i got a 27 000 mortgage i could easily pay

it off today um and i need to get my iras funded but god those kids that's coming at me like a freight train right now that that that big college bill is looming and i don't know what it is and i'm a little bit afraid if i pay that mortgage off and i start my fifteen percent baby step four into retirement that i'm not gonna have the money for college

right does that feel like and i do you feel that way you have uh i do i do i i now i i do have

uh a 457 uh through work

good um that that i have uh 150

about 150 000 all right so tell me the ages of the kids again uh 17 so uh she's a junior

um so we've got a little over a year and a half um 15 he's a freshman and then uh 14.

so so i have that uh 457 also

and they my employer

just changed the management of that 457

and as for the past many years

they didn't offer a roth uh option and now they do so i've stopped putting into the regular i've opened up the roth but it's you know so i still have the okay here's what i'm gonna do if i'm in your shoes all right i'm just going to throw some numbers down just for the fun of it but i want you to go do a formal version of

this with your wife okay let's let's say we research the kids college and a hundred thousand dollars will put them through each i don't think it will quite but i'm going to use that number for a minute okay so over the next four years

because i've got a 14 year old i need 300 grand

that makes sense yes i make 175

and so if i did four into 300 that'd be

75 a year i can cash flow that

right yes you see how having the numbers

helps you relax a little bit

so i know 75 000 a year for four years

and or a hundred thousand dollars a year yeah for four years you can cash flow that now a hundred percent of the time i'm going to write a check tonight and pay off your mortgage knowing that i can get there because you've already got 50 of your 300 to 400 that you're going to need 77 minus 27 is 50 right yup right

okay i got 50 of it now the only

question is in order to cash flow it am i going to have to tap the brakes a little bit on my retirement in order to cash flow college because i got college right here on top of me of course the kids are going to go to school they're going to they're going to take uh act testing and they're going to take it again they're going to apply for scholarships we're going to affordable schools we're not going to uber expensive schools

you don't have the money and you're going to go to you know something you can afford but even having done all of that you're looking at a three to four hundred thousand dollar bill over this period of time yeah roughly andrew once you do this you've got your mortgage payment now freed up because you paid off your house yeah so the only question that remains is how much retirement am

i going to be able to do while i'm cash flowing college for the next four years actually it's right so there's one uh wrinkle there too i i also will be receiving a pension um of probably right at about a hundred

thousand when you retire or a lump sum no when i

retire oh but we're not retiring anything way down the road yeah because when the kids are through school you're gonna load retirement when the kids are when the kids are through school you're gonna load up retirement yeah because you you've got that money so you can do this you're going to be good buddy now what you have to do is stay allergic to stupid from now on you got to map it out and you got to map out the kids school yeah and and have some firm discussions starting tonight on where you're going to school where you're not 17 year old yeah i mean and this is this is real but i'm writing a check paying off the house i got 50 started towards my three to four hundred thousand dollar need over the next four years before the last one starts school but we really have a total of eight years to spread it across so this makes it even more doable so you can map out the actual cash needs so the 17 year old starts i need this much cash this year right so you got your one out of your 50.

you probably got year two out of your 50. now the 15 year old starts school

and you got three and four for the first one and you got the second one right and you're going to end up with uh

two in school for quite a few years

at the same time but you can map that cash out and and out of your cash flow in your budget again with a reasonably priced education and

you're going to be able to do that and then back into how much can i put towards retirement out of that and paying cash for school so i'm going to have the discussion with them about that and we got but if once you map this out it's going to give you a ton of peace just like when you start doing a budget you feel like you got a raise

but all we're doing is we're mapping out the next eight years which gets the 14 year old four years starting school four years to finish school yeah and now you're not guessing you're not you don't have this thing looming over your head where you're wondering you can sit down and actually know and once you put a dollar amount to it now you can put a savings plan toward

it yeah this will work this will absolutely work hold on i'm gonna have kelly send you a copy of debt free degree number one bestseller by anthony o'neil and you guys need to read that and the kids need to read it uh is it'll help you understand that you can get a degree debt-free especially when mom and dad are 100 debt free house and everything and make 175 k ding ding it's doable it's very doable

but we got to plan it out we got to think about it and you can't you're not going to no one accidentally wins the super bowl it doesn't happen we noticed that the other night

this is the ramsey show

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our scripture of the day ecclesiastes 7 12 for the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him

who has it john zinger says

great leaders are not defined by the absence of weakness but rather by the presence of clear strengths i've heard that one that is a

good that's a good one that is a good one chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host here today david is with us in houston texas hi david how are you you know i don't know whether to say better than i deserve or focus but not finished i'm doing pretty well that's a pretty good hogan impersonation there that david i'm gonna give you an a on that one okay thanks hey um i've got a question

for y'all uh i'm 30 years old married i have

two kids three and under with one on the way and i am blessed to be debt free except for a mortgage um we got about 125k left to pay off on that um kind of a backstory is you know i grew up kind of as an fbu kid my parents did it back in i read your book dave total money makeover in 2008 and we did fp as a couple in 2013.

but i'm kind of struggling now um with

baby steps and burnout now we're on baby steps four five and six we purchased our home in 2015 as double income no kids and then in 2017 uh my wife quit after

we had our daughter in the middle of hurricane harvey and took a big pay cut there to about

70k then i was blessed out of promotion before i i got a 42 pay raise in 2019 so now i'm making about 110k um so my question i guess is you know

with all the things that i've found the more money i make the more things you have to pay for whether that's 529 for the kids home insurance life insurance property tax etc so how can i keep

my eyes and our eyes on our financial goal without running out of gas during dates that's four five and six

well the first thing that comes to mind is baby steps one through three are gazelle intensity and four five and six are not you move from intensity intensity to intentionality

on for on four five and six so four five

and six involves a budget for a vacation

it involves a budget for an upgraded vehicle it involves a budget for you're running a marathon here you're not running a sprint and so you're not on beans and rise rice and beans and you make 110 000 you've done very well in your career well done you're putting 15 percent of your income away you don't have any payments but a house payment you've got an emergency fund in place you have a very reasonable house mortgage and you got some kids and you're funding a 529 but you're you're slowing into a rhythm

run now you're not doing speed training

it's a marathon and i think you're still

have the trying to run the emotions at least if not maybe even trying to crank the math down as if you were still on gazelle intensity that'll burn you up you can't do that yeah and david you're also at that stage of life where you've got all of these young kids you got another one coming so you're feeling the pressure and destroying you're gonna get out yeah along with them along with lack of

sleep are you working from home too yes sir oh yeah man so you let's let's be honest the mindset on the financial side is they've said it's a mindset it's the intentionality factor but what you're feeling is the stress and strain from the other things of life and i want to tell you as a former master isolator because i was perfect at it i thought you don't want to do life alone

and so you want to get some good guys around you you want to have a connection and a relationship to talk about the stressors and strains of the kids of the pressure uh it's one of those things where we're not meant to do life alone so you need some community yeah and

you know it's the stage you're in oh yes i mean you've got uh there's not a lot of traction mathematically with where you are in these baby steps and the kids just keep piling up here and

you're just like i'm stuck and he doesn't get to leave he's working from home yeah yeah there's a lot that's a lot you know you you're i think just saying all that out loud oh helps with the idea of burnout that yes a normal human being in your situation would be stressed yes so if you are stressed you are a normal human you are normal you are not a psychopath no and if you were just clueless then i

would tell you i'd worry about your mental health you are feeling exactly where you are right now in this season brother we'll get you out of the house and working yeah that'll be helpful it will and we get the baby here the last one that'll be that'll be gonna be the the that'll be helpful yeah and you get in there you know but you're not going to see one of

the frustrations that we've watched people experience and i guess we've all experienced that walk these baby steps is that you see such huge chunks of traction in the first three yeah and then when you go to four five and six it just slows down yes and it's the long haul this is a it's a

five seven year ten year slog that's just a thought and we're just that's why we budget in there for the upgrades and some of the other things as you go along you budget right for this or that and um you know if you need to back off on a 529 just a little bit in order to breathe have a fun

fund yes a little bit while you're here this is the time that it's appropriate to do that i just want you doing it on purpose and i don't want you to fall into debt right because you take your take your eyes completely off the ball so you go from intensity to intentional yeah and that's where we want to be and david just like the seasons of the weather

this season too will change my friend it really will just hang in there with your wife make sure you guys relationship is connected get some coaching if you need to or some counseling if you need to but get some good guys around you so you can do life with them because you got other fellows that are feeling the same thing you know it's weird it feels like it's yesterday in some ways

and in some ways it feels like it was a hundred years ago but the year rachel was born we filed bankruptcy we had no money that's why you filed bankruptcy and i got a toddler a marriage hanging

on by a thread i'm working from home and i'm broke

i got no money and um

you know sharon was to say the least overwhelmed she wanted me away she didn't want to look at me to start with right then that's pretty disgusted uh valid valid

but uh you know i mean we went through a similar season uh but much worse yeah in the sense of there was not money for uh the electric bill and there was not money you know we're i mean we didn't go hungry literally but we were broke we had no money and i had to go make money every week in order to just pull things together and

i got little babies my self-esteem is destroyed my marriage is on the rocks i mean it's that was a tough tough season and so it feels like when i talk about it it comes up in my throat and i remember it like it was yesterday but it was you know 30 years ago so uh in that sense david you're in a similar type thing but much better

and i'm not saying yours is that your your feelings aren't valid they are valid right uh but you're just that that's what that those young that young kid stage of life they suck they suck the marrow out of your bones yes emotionally that's what they they're so needy takers

um we love them they're cute as they can be but that's why when i have all the grandbabies over i mean that's how i send them back home that's why i send them back home because i love them but they need to go home have to go home you know and it's just they you know when you're when you're six months old and you can't do anything for yourself you're all

you are is a taker man i mean we love you you're cute as a button and uh papa dave's gonna bounce you on my knee but um but they they do they pull the energy

out of and the math out of everything and and so it is valid to feel that it's not really a burnout it's more of a

i'm not getting traction yeah fatigue it's a fatigue it is a fatigue yeah it's a mental it's a math fatigue an emotional fatigue a spiritual fatigue it is a relational fatigue yep and uh so

yeah just own that and and say that that's real get some guys guys of young families around you like chris suggested yeah form your group of guys get out of the house yes go to the store and just walk around go in the backyard and hit a tree with a stick i don't know do something man i mean uh

that's get out of that house yeah let your wife get out of the house too take turns take turns yeah for god's sakes yeah budget for a babysitter that's a good thing yeah i mean i'm with you brother that's what we're saying but you'll get through it and you can still hit your baby step yes you can just don't let this cause you to fall off the horse that puts

this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 193. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 12, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show you can be intentional

about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm john dolone joined here with my good friend and best-selling author mrs rachel cruz and we are here to talk to you about what's going on in your life give us a shout at 825-5225

money relationships challenges whatever's going on give us a shout rachel how are we doing doing great yeah it's gonna be yeah good

show john we did an hour yesterday we made it barely three hours today we're barely surprised oh that's so good oh it's so fun and i'm excited about tonight our money and marriage event is gonna be really fun we just finished the final block in here a little bit it's going to be a blast yeah yeah it's great can we awesome um before we go i have to just make this public announcement i was wrong when i bet

our engineer here that the buccaneers

were going to lose to my patrick mahomes ah

i lost kyle gotcha kyle won i was incorrect and i felt it appropriate too he's reminding me every day how wrong i was he's that guy that's still wearing bucks gear here we are like seven days later or whatever a little sport in the hat kyle some of us would say just let it go but i know that's the attitude of a loser so way to go kyle

you won i was wrong all right let's go to josiah in salt lake city josiah what's going on how can we help hey dr d and rachel thanks for taking my call to keep a long

story short um for for a little bit now i've had some suspicion that my brother was stealing money through uh various sources from my disabled mother i confronted him about it and let my mother know what was going on he still has not been 100 honest with either me or my mother um my issue is this isn't a first time saying he's stolen from me before i'm just finding it hard to keep a relationship with both my brother and my mom because now um she's she's looking at as

if it's a minor issue um and i'm worried

that it's just gonna bleed or dry and eventually he's just gonna be gone and i'm gonna be stuck trying to

fund her for the rest of her life yeah

you man i hate this for you josiah you're wrestling with um i can hear as you're processing this you're turning in this into a future math problem but man i want to bring you back to right here this just hurts man and i hate that for you what's what struggles does your mom have um she's since i was 10 so about 20 years ago she was diagnosed with art she's now just got multiple other health issues um she's she's basically

been bedridden my whole life that's hard man

so here's a challenge that everybody

with this type of family situation deals with we all are we love our brothers and sisters our moms and dads we are all trained to um and socialized and it's just the right thing i mean you you take care of your family right you default to that and unfortunately there's these moments like you're experiencing when your brother is still your brother but

he also becomes that grown man that's hurting mom right and at some point you have to lean into that and do hard things which like call the police and if your brother's stealing from your mom and you've got proof of it and your mom is not in a position to take care of yourself then that's the logical responsibility it's hard and it feels like you're violating that family what i'll tell

you it's it's a phrase i use all the time but it's not by your hand but it's in your lap right you didn't cause this you're not going to be the you're not going to be the result you're not going to be the person who who broke up the family your brother is making some really reckless um wrong decisions taking advantage of your mom and now it's your situation to

to to deal with right because your brother's not acting with character right and josiah does he have does he still have the ability to steal from your mom like is it accounts numbers that he has yeah so i i actually kind of put the

kibosh on that um she she because she was so dependent on

me and him she had her he had her debit

card and so i i forced him to give it back to her

and i told her that because now they have that information that she needs to change her her card number and everything immediately yeah yeah yeah so i think it's i think that's the right thing to do brother and i think you're it's just one of those moments where you find yourself in a hard position you didn't cause this you didn't it's not not your fault but now you're

the person who's going to be responsible be the person of integrity that's going to have to turn and deal with it and so that means getting the authorities involved if your brother is going to continue to kind of be the person that steals from your mom i hate that terrible and then josiah too i mean i know i think focusing on the present is extremely important right now

but also to know long term like it probably is going to be you taking care of your mom i mean if she's if she is bedridden and she doesn't have a way to make an income then she is going to need to eat right i mean like and your brother is obviously not a dependable trustworthy person so i

would go ahead and emotionally say okay what can i do to help my mom in the future because it probably is going to be you josiah so i'd be thinking about that as well and those are those are we just talk to millions of people who are faced with those situations mom and dad don't want to sign over you know accounts or they won't can't join accounts

and i'm just trying to do the math what my future might look like and sometimes it's there is no easy answer to that right right but there's a responsible answer you can pretend it's not going to happen or you could pretend yeah this is probably going to be us you your future spouse you know we've got to start planning for this financially what does that look like yeah oh man uh

let's go to calvin in st george utah calvin what's going on man how can we help hi a pleasure to be on the show a big fan i've been listening for a long time um

so i was recently accepted into dental

school and uh the cost of dental school is really high as you may be away yes and my first place may be in excess

of 400 000 in debt um to go to dental school

um i applied to the military scholarship because i am such a big fan of dave ramsey's show and i'm kind of living debt i applied for military scholarship uh they will completely pay for the schooling um but i owe them year for year of the school so it's a four-year commitment to them um my question is is it worth the opportunity cost i could potentially get out of dental school and be making much more than what the military would pay me and potentially pay it off in four to

six years and living under my knees

or should i take the military scholarship that they'll cover and then have that commitment to them and it's just kind of what would you recommend on that what do you want to do do you want to go to the military uh yes i i do have interest in the military why do you want to go to the military what is it about the military that excites you service to country

i am interested in and um i do stand for a lot of the same values they have okay so i i would i would back up and rachel

i'd love you to hop in here i'd back up and you're not not going to dental school you're not going to take up 400 thousand dollars or half a million dollars with the loans because you like dave ramsey you're not going to take a half million dollars worth of loans because that's half a million dollars worth of loans and you never know when a pandemic's going to come through

and say they're going to close your dental practice for a year and you're going to be up a creek and on top of that you're a guy who wants to serve in the military and the military has this incredible program that's going to pay for it for you and so if those two interests align i wouldn't tell you to go to the military if you were just trying to scam

the system so they'll pay for something but if you are about service which you are you love their values which you are i think that's commendable and extraordinary man let them pay for your dental school you're going to serve all of our absolutely you're going to learn by serving our soldiers and our military and then you're going to be able to come make a great difference in your local community brother

i love your heart that's what i would do man this is the ramsay show

folks it's an honor to tell you about the army national guard not only are they big supporters of our high school curriculum but they also give you the opportunity to impact your local communities whether your goals are to get an education serve your country or have a better life the army national guard can help you get there plus they offer unbelievable financial benefits secure your future today visit nationalguard.com ramsey to find out more

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triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show and i'm john deloney joined here with rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on money taking your calls on life

relationships are hard right now money is tight things are just hard give us a shout let's go to nathan in atlanta georgia nathan what's going on how are we doing hey thank you for taking my call you bet brother what's going on all right so uh i'm 26 years old i mean i'm 24 years old i'm married to my wife she's 23 years old and we have 62

000 in debt and we make 72 000 combined

and in may we're about to lose her income for a while because she is going to move into uh real estate and be a real estate agent okay um two of those loans to

part of that debt is collection so our credit scores are pretty much non-existent they're really bad and we have two cars and uh one car has

sixteen thousand dollars owed on it and her car has uh thirty six thousand dollars owed on it okay so we can't go to a credit agency and you know get a loan for the depreciation on her car however i can sell mine i have a thousand dollars equity in it but we're just i'm just kind of wondering where i go from here because we we started the 14-day trial of ramsey

plus and we've been doing the financial keys university stuff but just kind of overwhelmed a little bit right now yeah for sure uh so the 36 000 car how

much is it worth now it's uh worth twenty nine thousand twenty nine i only bought it like six months ago and

have you talked to a local credit union nathan yeah they're outside of atlanta of a couple have you sat down with them and shown them showing them the numbers i mean like you have all the paperwork you're talking to them did you do it yes we went to our local one called connecticut credit union yeah that's where we actually bank at and we showed them everything and uh

we just don't have the credit to do anything about it i mean i'm looking at our with our debt con you know getting this debt paid off i can probably do it in four years uh

with just my income but and hopefully

she can start selling some houses but i know that when you go into real estate it's a while before you actually collect it yeah what is she doing what is she doing now nathan she's captioning phone calls for people that are hard of hearing okay and how much does she make in that she only makes about 26 000.

26. okay so she'll i mean yeah real

estate it takes a little bit but you're in a hot market so hopefully she's going to be making more commissions than 26 000. i was about to say depending on how much percentage of her income for her to just stay in that job for another year or two just to be bringing in a steady income to be able for you guys to pay off this debt but she's only making 26 so i'm like no she she can make more doing real estate could she do both rachel uh

yeah she could do both is that possible nathan that real estate while you know you're grinding it out you're doing those things can she do both for a season it's going to be a busy hard season it just feels like a really an opportune time to lose half your income uh the issue with that

is the company she works for it doesn't give you an option on your scheduling and uh she has talked to them about possibly going part-time but even then her schedule would be so whacked and it's it's not a set schedule like you know what you're going to be working they change it every week and she wouldn't be able to keep appointments and stuff like that she's going to have to leave that job okay okay so nathan let me get a little bit more um tactical your the debts you got you have

the two car payments and then what else do you have i've got the two car payments we've got a 1200 credit card okay we've got a 4 500

credit card that we bought furniture with okay and i've got 4 500 in collections my wife has a 2600 student loan and she has a 900 collection that's a medical bill okay okay

so the the the positive thing here is

that besides that 36 dollar car and you're sixteen thousand i'd sell your sixteen thousand go ahead and get a thousand dollar car go ahead and just get that out of the way because that's going to give you just like a oh a breath of fresh air of not having that 16 grand i would go talk to two more credit unions to see if there's anything they can do to get a loan for the difference to get rid of that 36 000.

you may be just stuck with it which i hate to say it but that might be the case and then for you guys i mean nathan you're gonna it's gonna be a level of intensity and sacrifice for you and your wife for probably

a good 24 months and the more

you guys can bring in in the income side

and we're just saying maybe she maybe she stays at that 26 000 job to your point john and starts selling houses at night when people are off work doing open houses on sundays doing stuff on saturdays but just going full-fledged because there's a lot of these little like 900 1200 if you guys buckle down you do a tight budget you can start knocking some of this stuff out

and that's the beauty i love about the debt snowballs like you're you're it's all these numbers and besides the big car payments it's these little ankle biters and i'm like man you can just put so much intensity and start knocking those out but you guys have to be working together in this and there's going to be extra work on the side yeah i would i nathan if

if that's me and i have a dream of being a real estate agent but i find myself in your situation i'm going to have a hard take a hard look at take weight in a year waiting two years and maybe doing this job and getting the nighttime gig driving or clawing and scratching whatever you guys got to do this feels like an emergency and it also feels like something that's solvable

but you may have to hold off on the dream part until you get some of this the math part that's really against you um here's the thing this is going to be hard on your marriage so i want to make sure y'all are connected we're going to start you off right so i want you to hang on and kelly is going to give you guys a free ticket to tonight's live stream with me

and rachel as soon as the show's over we're gonna head out to the to the tv studios here tonight at 7 p.m we have the marriage and money event you can go to daveramsey.com events for tickets it's going to be hilarious it's going to be fun we're also going to tell you the truth about your marriage your money how y'all can come together about intimacy all these things that folks are wrestling with

and nathan we want to give you guys this gift to start you guys off on this journey you guys got to hang in there with each other running hard and fast for 24 long months

all right let's go to tony in norfolk virginia tony what's going on man how can we help hi how are you doing good good good okay

so let me keep it as brief as possible i am a high school spanish teacher and my salary is in the upper 40s that's uh my contracted salary and i had 15 000 of student loan debt

back from college that i i paid some of it off it was higher than that it's now down to 15 000.

wife's a homemaker we have kids now just so you know i bought my house before i knew about dave ramsey so don't get mad at me no we're not we're not man yeah but i have i have baby stuff one

already done with and uh this house that

i bought is actually an older house and i did that to sort of keep the price low but there are things that need to be repaired around here and so i have a tax return coming in and what my wife and i were discussing and you just want to sort of get you guys advice about it should i throw my whole tax return at the student loans or should

i hold back a significant chunk of it in case some sort of repair pops up around here how how much is the refund going to be in the neighborhood of six grand of six thousand and what kind of repairs what kind of repairs are you think are you just saying like it's okay cosmetic or is it for example it's an older house that's on a well it's

you know serve out in sticks and uh the uh water needs treatment to make it fully potable like you know it's because we've been buying water and drinking that rag and drinking what comes out as well because it needs a water softener system installed and all those kinds of things yeah but you guys i mean you can you can have water bottled water or whatever right i mean like you're not dependent on that wet is that well

i mean is it i'm on a wheel and i i got you tony yeah if that well goes out that will goes out right then there's no there's no toilets showers nothing exactly but my i guess yes but i'm asking like the urgency of it like is it do you is it is it you don't know when it's gonna go out is it that oh yeah i know

when we bought the house they said we have three months like no it's it's it's still it's still it's still working now the problem is the water needs to be softened and conditioned because it's eroding our pipes basically like the acidity and things like that and the water need to actually be treated because that could lead to other plumbing problems okay well yeah i mean your

your food and water when you have your basics that you need to be covered now a water softener looking at what that costs if that's something that you absolutely need to do i just want you to get caught up in this house and it keeps sucking down your money and your student loans hanging around so it's a prior it's a prioritization that you're going to have to do

so if the question is ultimately yeah should we add a couple more thousand bucks just to be safe what i don't want you to do is pull that and feel like we're gonna start remodeling we're gonna start upgrading right you're still in this debt emergency yeah but if you know you've got a big thing hanging over you i don't have a problem with you putting that aside

if you know what's going to happen it's happening if you get to the end of this year and you need to pay it off then you can just dump that money onto that student loan but let's get that sucker paid off and thanks for being a teacher during this madness what a saint

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triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show i'm dr john deloney joined with my good friend best-selling author host of the world famous rachel cruz show the world famous rachel cruz you know one thing we do well here what we spend a lot of creative energy time on our on our titles titling tv shows and podcasts good grief rachel cruz show

the john delany show there's just so many meetings about it just like wow so many right so crazy and this is unveiling we've got it guys here it is all right let's go to matt in uh cleveland matt what's going on man hey john hey rachel hey what's up how can we help hey um so i have a question um i'm starting to feel a lot of kind of resentment or frustration towards some of my friends who are being financially irresponsible

like they'll be going on vacations when i know that you're like either they'll complain about money issues or things of that issue or they won't have jobs i know dave shout dave says to share

your journey but that doesn't seem to work um listening to the show all the time

i feel like financially winning is what dave teaches and so i mean i'm kind of out of i feel like i'm the crazy one sometimes but listening to your show i feel like the normal one i don't know um so how can i stop the feelings that i have of not everyone wins um

so whenever i hear the word resentment the word resentment or resentment in general is the absolute death bell of a relationship whenever you cross that line to like i'm frustrated with you that means you're in a good relationship i'm annoyed i'm angry with you that means you're in a good relationship that means there's things about this that you care about when you get to the resentment part it's an ash right it's hard

and when we talk to folks whose marriage when they resent their per their partner man that's hard to come back from my first question to you is it feels like you have an air of

superiority around your friends that i'd want to challenge you on that you you handle money differently than they do there you feel like they're being irresponsible

there's a gap between um friends like

hey i don't make that decision i'll make that decision yours feels a little bit higher than that do you feel like you're better than them walk me through where your head's at man um it's it's more just when they're going on vacations but um but i mean the next day they'll complain about their problems i'm like come on like if you didn't take that vacation like you'd have the money to do you know to pay your car rent i mean carly's so rachel i'd love to get

your thoughts i i have something with my buddies with my longtime friends which is when they ask for my opinion i'll give it to them yeah and if they don't i am in such a tight relationship with them that i feel free to mock their choices and we do it in good fun because we love each other right um but i don't hold the outcome i just am committed to sitting with them

when things are challenging right so when they call me and they say i went on a vacation i didn't now i can't make rent i get to say well duh right

but i'm not going to hold it's not my fault that they made that decision right that's right i'm not going to hold that because yeah there's a level of of responsibility matt i feel like you're taking on for your friends and that's what's like stirring up all these emotions and so being able to see my counselor

did this about a different relationship in my life but i wish you could see me but he like had these scissors and he was like pretending to cut these like strings he's like cut the strings yeah cut the strings you're not emotionally responsible for this so matt you're not respond you're not responsible for their choices and yeah if they're just complaining all the time then you can say hey are

you good if i just kind of share where i'm at what what i see and in a loving way just like yeah i mean if that cost two grand and your rent 600

you know 1200 yeah you could have used it i mean i don't know it's just math and but it's not emotional because you're you're not responsible for them that's right matt can i ask you one other question it's gonna sound like i'm coming after you but i just want to get to a little bit deeper is there a part of you that wishes you were going on

these vacations with them part of me wishes i could go on the vacation um part of me yeah part of me does wish i could go on those vacations with them so that's a big moment man and it's okay

to be frustrated that the the choices

you're choosing to make in your life are cutting out on some fun right now that the choices you are choosing right now are annoying right they are keeping you

from you know firecrackers and whatever i get that dude and it sucks the moment you can say i'm frustrated and you can pause and say am i frustrated just because i want to be going on a vacation but i'm sticking to this budget for the time being because i'm playing a long game with my life or am i frustrated because i love my friends and they're making ding-dong choices or am

i just a grumpy guy right if you find that i'm just frustrated that i don't get to go then you can circle back to i'm making a series of choices because i'm i'm investing in my future i'm investing in my family i don't even have yet i'm investing in filling all these things i want to be able to help my neighbor in any way shape form or fashion man

then you've got a frustration's okay right yeah it's just part of the process and like rachel said you don't own their outcome yeah right divorce yourself and i think one of the hardest things when it comes and probably anything in life but specifically money with people in your life so whether it's parents spouse for well no i wouldn't count spouses but friends uh parents in-laws right i mean

all these people in your life and when they make different choices than you make and you hear the complaining and all of that i mean that that's a very very real thing and understanding that until they ask your opinion yeah just keep it to yourself yeah or like you said matt already like share your story share where you're at if you long for that but that is a hard thing for people

because there's a level of control we want to have for the people that we love because you do see them harming themselves you're like dang it dang it but listen they're grown-ups and they get to make their decisions and my guests matt is if you sat down with them they'd say man matt when you're not around we all talk about you we want you just to have some more fun

and smile and so what if we figured out ways to do some things together that maybe didn't involve this you're not late on any of your bills yeah exactly you pay your bills every month so thanks for that call matt and um next time you get sideways just pause for that that one moment and say is this just cause i'm jealous is this because i'm frustrated or is

this because i'm trying to hold on to somebody else's outcome man and free yourself from that i love that analogy cut the strings that's good all right let's go to amy in hartford what's up amy how are we doing hi there you guys i'm doing well how are you today good how can we help sure

so my husband and i have been married for just over a year um and we're actually looking to buy our first house and we were just wondering if we couldn't run some numbers by you guys and see what you all think about um where we are with our numbers what we can afford what we should be looking for in a first house absolutely

yeah let us know bring it on bring it rachel no numbers to the others i might get myself on

calculator in just a second but [Laughter] sure so um right now we have about

just under 38 000 in our savings

um we've managed to actually pay off all of our debts

um so i can't that free spring my husband's not here he's at work it's my day off um so we've

got probably about 25 000 worth of debts that we've paid off so we're pretty good at saving and hitting it hard where it counts in regards to debt so he makes probably about 40 uh

45 000 a year i'm just under 30.

um but in the next maybe two months or so he's going to be going after a different job in which he'll probably make about 70 000 so we should be bringing in just under a hundred thousand okay uh do you guys have any is that the

38 000 the only savings you have

correct yeah we've got a little buffer in our checking it's just under 5 000.

yeah for sure um okay well our rule of thumb when it comes to buying a home is that i want your payment to be no more than 25 of your take-home pay i want you to be able to put down 10 to 20 for a down payment

and that 25 take-home pay your mortgage payment is on a 15-year fixed rate so so doing that math so the 70 000 job

is that a guarantee it's happening and he's waiting to transition or is he hoping he has it no it's guaranteed it's actually family-owned business so um he's going to be working with his dad so it's already been talked about and agreed upon this pay rate okay awesome awesome so i would do all your calculations off of a hundred thousand dollar income but that thirty eight thousand though amy

i want some of that to stay as your emergency fund do not spend that all in the down payments you guys have a little ways to go to save it for that down payment depending on what house you wanna buy how much that's gonna be but run those numbers that's kind of the formula we use and you guys are in an awesome position no debt emergency funds it's pretty fun just being newlyweds man that's super cool what an ex that's an exciting place to be amy that's awesome

this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm john dolone with my good friend rachel cruz and we're taking your calls on life money triple eight eight two five five two two five we have somebody in our lobby that wants to ask a live question he's got the headset on he's standing on the debt free stage not doing the debt free scream not yet but he wants to ask us a question in person where

we have to look each other in the eye which is kind of funny andy this doesn't happen very often that's really cool so i can't i'm just overwhelmed to be here today well we're grateful that you're here so what's going on man how can we help so i pastor a church in southern illinois we have about 400 people in attendance right before kovitz started we were about to pull

the trigger on building a new sanctuary last year we did our first financial peace university class at our church this year we just started a new one last week and man we it's changed my wife myself my wife's life matt and nick you're here with us today we've seen a variety of different families in our church just greatly changed by the program and man it's just it's brought in a whole new attitude

but one of the things going through it is that we're looking to to borrow around 2.2 million dollars to build a new sanctuary scripture says borrower is slave to the lender your dave repeats that often and so i thought do you guys think it's hypocritical for a church who is practicing the principles of financial peace university in their personal lives to go out and borrow money in a church setting

so before you answer that as somebody who used to meet with people behind closed doors right on hard conversations you get a sense when somebody already has an answer in their heart as they're asking the question even though he framed it and so andy i feel really strongly that you

have an answer yes walk us through where you

are and how you got there okay well it goes a little further than that even and so um recently god's been doing a great work in me just through this last year and so the thought process is is that number one the answer should be no we shouldn't we should practice what we preach and if we tell you to do it in your personal lives we should do in our church life secondly

the state of illinois is kind of different right now and i don't want to go too much into that but one of the things that we've just started at our church is to actually help families the the educational institution illinois is not good and so one of the reasons for starting at fpu was to help our families live within their means so they could help afford christian education

and so this year our church started to adopt this program to where we will partner with a family for up to 50 percent of biblical education and every one of our to every one of our members yeah just rolled that out wow and so one of the thought processes is we would rather we would rather educate our children than build a building but at the same time we're literally out of room right

and so it's one of these catch-22s but you know it's hard to go borrow 2.2 million dollars when you're telling your families man live within your means go into biblical education exactly and so it's a difficult situation so i've got a really strong visceral reaction to this question for a couple different reasons but i want to turn it over to the wiser calmer one of us first what do

you think rachel i mean you you answered it i mean my yeah my answer is gonna be it's consistent so whether it's a bid someone's opening a business i never tell them to take out a small business loan for a church it's the same way and and what's difficult though i understand it's the building constraints but i'll tell you here at ramsey we were in a building about 10 miles north of where

we are right now and we were outgrowing it and it was like man but there wasn't cash there to to buy something and so we could have you know taken a loan out and built something like this you know years and years ago but we rented out another space and we rented out another space and we were in five different buildings and it was so inconvenient it was not fun

we had like a little shuttle that went around and like oh it was just it was it was not it was not ideal but we move at the speed of cash around here and we do that because we really do believe the borrower is slave to the lender and your your whole paradigm shifts again whether it's a church whether it's a business whether it's your personal life

when you owe someone money the way you look at things and so to be able to say man are we invested into this program like what you guys are doing is what how creative and how amazing and fun of that education and just move at the speed of cash just save over time and it's going to be uncomfortable it's not going to be fun but also covid hello

you know i mean you couldn't meet for for months probably you know so like it it really uh thank god for covid because if you wouldn't go borrow two points it literally helped 2.2

million and couldn't even use it at that point so that was that maybe god may have saved you right there and for me it's it's it's that and i get

real personal with it being i tell teenagers i've told

teenagers for years when they were whining about their parents this and that my parents this and i'd always tell them if your parents are paying for that car they're paying for that fill in the blank they get to speak into it it's theirs right and anytime a church a business me

when i hitch myself to somebody else they get to tell me what to do that's just the rules right right and i think sometimes um like i i

find myself speaking out about it's not because i hate institutions i think institutions actually do wonderful stuff on broad big scales but man when i owe somebody they get to tell me what to do and i there's a lot of yelling and screaming these days and people don't don't they forget that man i hitch myself to that wagon most most recently in my life i haven't had a mortgage in a while right i got one recently and i'm having trouble sleeping because i am now

in debt to the bank right and they get to tell me nope you're going to keep going to work every day you're going to keep filling the blank right right and so i'm going to tell you i think a remarkable conversation for a leader in a church right now is to stand up and say this is going to be messy we're going to figure it out but we're going to do the right thing and we are not going to hitch our wagon to a state a bank a federal government or

whatever and it's not is it gonna be inconvenient yep are we gonna have to have 14 services and do all this weird whatever yep right um but i think it's the right thing to do right and i'm just grateful for your heart man oh absolutely and i would say this too as someone who attends a church when i know because our church is debt-free they paid off all of their building debt about four years ago

and it was incredible and so now i know when i tithe that it's not going to bank of america right you know it's not going to an interest payment it's literally going to a single mom because we have a whole car's ministry and it's buying single mom cards like that's like that's what it's like it's going or it's going to my pastor right to help pay his salary

the the church staff like i know where my money's going and as a as a someone who tithes and gives i'll tell you the heart of your congregation to have that conversation with john just said yeah that builds trust and honestly i think that's a that's a beautiful conversation just to say it out loud i'm only putting one foot on a soapbox here because i could get myself in trouble

i wish every every church in america any

denomination would have a hard look in the mirror and say how much money are we paying to the salaries of our local bankers that could be going to feeding the kids in our communities it could be putting kids in schools that could be helping single moms we do a lot of bickering and yelling about you know government intrusion and social programs and we sure like new shiny things in churches yeah that's that's been

the heart is that you know especially with this this education program is you know churches right now we're losing seven to one and so for every seven kids in this generation we're only getting one back in the next and my thought was man if we build a building in 20 years we cannot have people to put in it that's right if we don't start investing in our kids now

and the in the big heart is is that you know you pay this much money each month to uh for brick and mortar you know when you can invest man in in the in the future of our kids coming up yeah and we're not mad at brick and mortar no not at all absolutely like it's it's a great thing you got the space all of it yeah yeah yeah yeah

i praise god yeah there's something about being in this action yep moving at the speed of cash so i think you know it i mean even the way you asked the question that was a great call i hope every single small business owner i hope every single non-profit leader hope every single pastor in this country is listening this conversation and listening to your heart man because the more money

we pass out in other people's salaries that could be going to healing these communities right we the only gap person to fill that gap becomes the government right that's the greatest one of the biggest problems we have in society today is the church isn't playing the role of the church right right america he said it not me just kidding amen so ben i appreciate your heart and financial peace university

we talk about what could the people of god do for the kingdom of god if they had no debt and that's on an individual basis but we say yeah you put the government out of business right like as believers if you didn't have your car payments your credit cards your student loans and you were able to give outrageously that is literally the movement that is what changes

so we did our our finished university class last year are giving one of almost a hundred thousand dollars amazing well thank appreciate you

man pay off your debts

and then give recklessly yep first hour in the books my good friend rachel cruz big thanks to kelly and to james we'll see you just in a

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am dr john dolone

joined here with best-selling author and all-around good human being ms rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on life on money whatever's going on in your heart mind give us a shout triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel how's the family how's everybody how we doing we're doing good yeah i'm trying to think yeah

we our kids are in school so i feel like that changes the game i know i'm not everyone around the country right now so i still think about all you moms that are having those computers up and doing online school and the dads that are making home offices in there that's right that's right yes so laundry room so when the kids are in school it's a great thing it's a whole whole different world

so we're doing great that's awesome we have awesome teachers awesome teachers but uh but no yeah it's it's great winston are doing well talking about marriage because tonight's is the biggest thing this is the money in marriage events which i'm so excited about all right so tell everybody what's going on this evening yeah so john and i will be hosting i say hosting teaching talking hanging out yeah kind of like a hangout

i know we want to make it's going to be fun you guys that was like john and i's number one goal about tonight we want you we we have a lot of fun we have things we want to say we have an important message that to talk about you know how do you how do you get united with your spouse when it comes to money and if

you are how do you elevate that like how do you really dig in how do you have these vulnerable great conversations on you know like we're gonna talk about some really great rich stuff but also but also it's gonna be really fun i feel like the last thing on earth i want is to sit down on a couch with my wife

hold hands turn on the tv and have somebody just lecture me for two hours right that just seems like the worst possible thing best valentine's evening the least romantic the last thing i need is something else to make my life less romantic i'm already working from home right parents all over the place kids i don't want to sit there for two hours that's me lecture me so we've set

this thing up it's gonna be a blast and our friends george and courtney are gonna be there too it's just gonna be a a good time it's gonna be a fun evening and we're getting to some topics that ramsay has not traditionally gotten into right we're going to be talking about is forging the way is that a phrase that's not super a good way to say that

but it will kind of we're going to be talking about our romance man our intimacy man our how we

are communicating with one another when things have gotten hard this last year things were hard before this year that's just exposed but was already hard and so we're not going to flinch away from any of the challenging conversations we're going to take live q a during the show so please check it out shy john dolone is really shy if you haven't felt that and so he's going to kind of tip toe around some subjects that's like

you haven't been in all these meetings rachel for the last year i've had to i've been working it with other therapists or with professors or with other crisis people for so long that it's not weird to be like oh i'm so sorry tell me about your sex life how are things going and when we're having these conversations here is everyone's eyes bug out it's like 401 401 401 right

so 401k 41k 401ks right so we are in new territory but those are real questions that people struggling with oh yes well what's funny in my line of work if someone asks me a money question like outside of office stuff they're like well you know everything about doing this i'm like okay well how much do you guys make right and like what and i'm like oh sorry yeah people don't talk about yeah

you don't talk about that think about it that's exactly i love that too so funny so funny yeah i don't talk to my friends about how much uh they make that's a great have you thought about that no but and i and i don't say it obviously to like no just automatically yeah i'm like well how much do you make how much debt you have i love

it so anyway go to daveramsey.com

events get your tickets we can't wait to see you there we have exceeded they gave us this okay here's here's our goal right here's what we want to have sweet john and rachel i wonder how many people so we they if they set a goal that was like realistic and you're way past that goal so there's

please join us daveramsey.com events make a dinner tonight um whoever doesn't usually cook you make the dinner and then you'll sit down get the kids to bed early you know what i'm even giving you permission put them on a screen in another room just have them go away we start at seven o'clock and just take this time to be with y'all two together you and your spouse be

there together and um enjoy each other enjoy some new content and have some laughs along the way all right so let's grab one call here let's go to chris in boston chris what's going on hey guys it's good to speak with you um i've got a money question for rachel and a higher ed question for dr john all right bring it um all right so money questions

first i'm in baby step two uh i've been doing it for about two years and i've got about three more years to go uh 163 000 worth of student loans

plus a motorcycle and a car but um

yeah everything's paid off except for my student loans um i've got 90 000 left to go so i've paid off wow

grand in the last two years way to go man great job chris thank you so as i was reading the total money makeover a month or two ago i came across a sentence that that made me question whether or not i should be investing um i i believe dave wrote

that if it's going to be a longer baby step too you might want to do small investments while you're doing it because if it's going to take me close to three years to finish paying everything off i'll be 32 years old and all have is you know three thousand dollars in a roth ira whereas if i invest 200 a month

for the next three years it'll only push

my payoff date by maybe three months and

i'll have at least a whole another year's worth of investment in that roth ira i want to know what you think yeah so i hear that and that mathematically is all correct

but there's this visceral emotional

sacrifice that i want you to have which i feel like you have it because you've already paid off so much student loan debt already but yes i our rule of thumb black and white answer here is pause investing and everything goes toward the debt and that that's our answer french all the time so even that sentence i would have to even go back because honestly i don't even remember him saying that um but i mean i was on page like 128.

128. well look i'll look it up i'll be talking to goodwill hunting in boston that's awesome i know um but no and you're still young chris i mean like maybe we tilt the conversation if you're 65 and you have no retirement or anything but even but even then my advice would be no you want to get this debt out of your life and so chris you have time i know it doesn't feel like it because you think oh i'm going to be 32.

psychology and my side hustle is that i coach uh two swim teams and you know there's a

huge need for counseling for our kids and most of them don't have access to it so my bachelor's degree is in psychology yeah um and i didn't know if you knew anything about the field of performance psychology or if maybe just a master's in counseling would be sufficient but yeah i i think i think i would start with a master's in counseling and you when you move into those type of performance psychology or child psychology that's

when you're getting a clinical degree which is at the doctorate level i think you are great to go in and get a master's in counseling you have that experience working with kids in that coaching area so it's going to be a natural link there and then you can do continuing education on the back end to get some specific things about working with kids in sports but yeah get that masters in counseling

we need more people working in mental health who love their neighbors you're the guy man thank you so much this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm dr john dolone joined with best-selling author and good human being rachel cruz i probably should stop calling you a good human being i know i like the title it makes me feel

like she was texting winston during the break saying i'm a good human being i'm a good human being that's right all right so let's go to blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code

ramsey to get the best deal all right today's question comes from lindsay in georgia this is a big one i cannot wait to hear what you have to say about this drone i'm the sole earner mom of three and three step kids my income ranges from a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand we've paid off two hundred thousand dollars of our initial three hundred and eighty thousand dollars of debt in

the past three years amazing my husband is a stay-at-home dad and dude due to covid and thinks that we should be spending more money despite getting 200 a week i pay his child support and

his tuition he is a good roommate but a terrible husband he has withheld all affection in the past years and prioritizes netflix over me i can withhold spending can i withhold spending money until he agrees to work on our marriage we had counseling but he would not follow up i'm so exhausted lonely and depressed i resent feeling i am good enough to work 60 hours a week to support him but not good enough to be loved oh man

that's it's a lot there that's about a year's worth of work here there so to answer there's one question in here which is can i withhold spending money until he agrees to work on our marriage the answer is no no anybody who starts who gets into the business of withholding whether that's i'm withholding affection intimacy i'm withholding um information i've got secrets

right i'm withholding um fears

i'm withholding money that that's that's

like i said even a red flag that's like this giant neon sign right yeah this feels like resentment and this feels like this relationship it actually feels like this relationship is over and like you mentioned it we're roommates now he's got a good deal i got a good deal and i'm just exhausted lonely and the good deal on the roommate stuff is run out right um i don't think

this is a money question at all no so let me just let me go high level money and then i want you to dig into this because i i am curious all of your thoughts so just a couple of things lindsay and again this is all the symptom of a bigger problem so what i'm about to say is not going to solve your life here but even saying his child support

his tuition it it seems like you know i

i give him 200 a week you guys are not a

team like it is a his and her viewpoint

and a little bit of it sounds like

you're being his mom that's exactly right and nobody wants to be nobody wants to have

a romantic relationship with their mom right i wish there was another way to say that but he's being mothered right and

he's acting like a five-year-old who needs a mom right and so now you get in this weird dance because he needs to he needs to to buck up too like this isn't all your fault lindsay we're not picking on you but you do have to realize even the language you use shows where you guys are at in the marriage even just in the question which is fascinating okay so it becomes a dance right it becomes

i feel like she's always telling me what to do she's acting like my mom and then that shuts off all desire right which then leads to i'm just gonna retreat and hide in front of netflix and complain about not being able to go out with my friends which then he's acting like a five-year-old and then she has to right somebody has to say stop somebody's

gotta just as terry reel says you got to turn and stare the forest fire down you got to look at both of you've got stuff in your past that y'all got to deal with both of you got six kids in this house um you make great money there's a part of me that believes you think you're better than him because he you make that kind of money there's part of me that thinks

he feels like he's a loser because there's so much here and at the end of the day you said it best i'm so exhausted lonely and depressed rachel i've heard that those three words over and over and over this this season right if your partner will not go to counseling with you if your husband or wife girlfriend boyfriend won't go you're left with one option and that is to control what

you can control and that is to work on you so you've got to go right

if if you both had the flu that's

probably not a good if you both had strep throat and you go fill up both

prescriptions and he won't take his medicine that doesn't mean you don't take yours in fact that means you've got to take yours right because somebody's got to be well that's good yeah so spend the time the money the energy to get refilled it's not happening here my hope is my hope for this marriage is that when she starts working through the her challenges which are bigger than him bigger than

this mess that she will get some new skills and some new tools that will give her some clarity on her next path and hopefully will give her some clarity on how to engage him a little bit differently that he might be able to hear it she might have peace in her heart right she may be able to start acting outside of this marriage and um that sounded weird not act outside

the marriage but start here yeah start having like right you're just gonna start exercising again start taking care of yourself start having friends and community members go get re-engaged with a local church or local community groups or whatever that looks like and my hope is that your husband will see that and say i want that right blaming and criticizing and yelling never have solved a problem in a marriage right

and i love that control which you can control because i think that's one of the most frustrating things in life we talked about that you know even last hour but it's like yeah if you you yeah you don't have an option right you're not gonna just like absolutely drag him you can't physically drag him

and even if you did and set him in a room with a counselor he's not gonna do any good right he's not gonna he he he chooses to hear it or not so so being able to control what you can control but lindsay i'm so sorry this is a story for a lot of couples out there are in this and that's one thing i'm excited about our event tonight to hopefully bring a level of clarity and tools to people

um because it's tough but thanks lindsay thanks for your question all right let's go to sean in baton rouge louisiana

what's up sean how we doing hey guys how's it going uh doing okay yeah we're doing great

good good uh my question is uh my wife

and i are gonna be first time home buyers and

we're working with a credit uh company to to get our credit up to where we need to be to get approved for a loan and we had a deadline of april 1st and it just seems like the credit company is uh kind of dragging their feet a little bit and i'm wondering on paying certain debts off if there is a a faster way to go about getting our credit scores up to where

we need them to be how do we go about doing that sean are you are you working your way out of debt currently uh yes it's not much that it's under

eight thousand dollars okay and like have you been have you been working the plan have you been getting out of debt in the last you know 18 to 24 months paying off debt

uh within about the past 12 12 months okay so here's the deal with the credit score your credit score mathematically is made up on how you interact with debt so the fact that you guys have stopped going into debt and you're paying off debt your credit score is going to lower that's what's going to happen now it will be basically to the point that it's it's not a zero

but it gets to this point where it's they can't calculate it anymore after about 18 to 24 months which is about enough time that i want you guys not buying a house right now i want you to pay off that eight thousand dollars and get a fully funded emergency fund before you go and purchase a home so so my first rule of thumb sean is i don't think

you guys are in a place financially where i would advise to even be a homeowner i would continue to stay where you are um or rent for the time being

okay that's what we're doing now we've been running for four years yep and and i would i'm close man and it's frustrating i know it is but i would i because what happens is when you still have this eight thousand dollar debt over you you have no savings you go move into a home and 60 days in your heating and air brakes and you're like well what do

we do we have no money i guess we gotta go take on you know take out debt to repair that or if it's on a well if they're like right and and the well goes bad we gotta we gotta we gotta get water so we gotta take out that you know and so it ends up being a curse in your life versus a blessing

and i want a home because home ownership is so expensive and i know it's frustrating to rent i know it feels like it's just money going down the drain but it's not you guys are being wise you're being wise i promise stay in it until you're out of debt and you have that fully funded emergency fund so my wife and i bought a house back in august inspected great we even had some

exchange with the homeowners awesome and within the last four or five months new roof new driveway new right it just

happens right it just is never gonna be us it is gonna be us right so i love that so hard to rent we did it we did it we did it just hang in there you're so close you're so close sean do it the right way man and that way you can sleep with peace this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five we're taking your calls on your life and your money i'm john delonie joined here with rachel cruz let's go to silas in munich indiana

silas what's going on man how can i help

hey hla john thanks so much for taking my question you got it uh so i just got engaged back uh in this previous december nice congratulations hold on rachel says

you said that nice nah well i thought december a holiday engagement oh yeah it all went through my head was it a uh christmas engagement engagement yeah it was the day after christmas actually oh day after well played man she's nice that's where that came from she know it was coming uh she

kind of i mean we talked about it obviously but no she was very surprised but it was that when i did it was when i did it way to go so fun all right i'll leave you alone go for it so what's up man um well so like i said just got engaged and we're planning on getting married uh in the end of august okay uh so i'm

finishing up my last semester of my undergrad um and i i don't have

any debt so i myself am currently on baby step four um my fiance graduated last may

um so she's been working for a year and she did have a considerable amount of student debt and so she's been working to pay that off as quickly as possible um and and she's really been doing a great job i mean she's it's been amazing to me honestly how much she's paid off during that time even and we both have enough money saved up right now to to fully pay for pay cash for our wedding in august my question is uh once we got

engaged and we had set a wedding date i had stopped my own investing and started kind of setting that money aside in my savings so that once we get married i can take that chunk of cash as well as my fully funded emergency fund and put all that money towards the debt since at that point i'd be on baby step two with her am i am i thinking through that correctly am i doing the right thing or should i still be investing myself and and

be on baby step four right up until uh

we get married um i mean because you're

so young silas because of your age uh a few months is it going to make or break it honestly um on the investing side so honestly i think you did a great i think that's a great job the only word of caution for anyone else listening is you know you're you you go through the process of stopping your investing stopping your 401k all of that which takes paperwork

i mean it's a it's a process and then if something happens and the wedding doesn't go into effect then you have lost those months of investing but obviously you go into an engagement believing that this is it right wedding's gonna happen so so i'm sure you know i'm sure everything's gonna be fine so the fact that you paused it i'm totally great with and you're gonna have a pile of cash that emergency fund that

you do have and so you're exactly right you'll take all of that and you guys will together start back on baby step two and start working out so i'm curious how much debt does will she have in august and how much do you have saved up like how much of a debt yeah so she when she graduate graduated

she had probably around 45 000 and

um in august she'll probably be down to

somewhere between 15 and 20 000. awesome she killed it you're right yeah she's been doing great um and then i by that time and with working this summer after i graduate i'd say i could probably have around um

10 saved up maybe a little less it's awesome wow that i mean that's a huge huge head

start not many married couples get married and only have about five or ten thousand dollars of debt oh that's incredible you guys will knock it out you're both motivated i think it's just i think it's fantastic so i think you're doing exactly what you should be doing so great job silas one one trap to watch out for

yeah what is something that she is bringing to this relationship that you would say i'm so

thankful she's breaking this i'm gonna have to work on this for the next 2 5 10 15 20 years uh

i mean i think first of all she helps me my walk with christ she encourages me to be kind encourages me to love others well um she

really pushes me to to grow so that i

can lead our marriage well and so just from that

standpoint the encouragement she gives me encouragement she gives me to look to christ be dependent on him

i mean that's that's worth very cool so

sometimes when folks are are getting married one of you is sitting there debt-free with an emergency fund the other one's got debt it's easy to feel

like i'm giving all this stuff up or i'm

the one making these concessions i'm gonna go ahead and help bail us out so we can start on a firm footage she feels bad she comes in feeling guilty right um came in and immediately hooked a weight to us right right and so i want you to go in with that attitude i'm not saying you are i'm using you as an example for millions of couples across

the country you know that she's bringing things too right um to that are so extraordinary to this that you are going to learn and grow from and so it's letting her know all of the time we're all in this together right this is our show this is our dance we're doing this together you've got this i've got that we're going to be figuring out this is and that's for

the rest of our marriage right yep and um five years ten years me and sheila just had one uh that came up a few weeks ago

i've been with her almost a quarter of a century and i looked at her and said i don't think i know you anymore right they all keep coming up silas and so good for you make sure that she feels like she is the man she is the rock star in your world and that she's not coming into this marriage um dragging things down all right let's go to leah in orlando hey leah what's going where are

you there you are leah hey how are you doing i'm i'm right here thank you both i'm excited to be on the show and to get some advice i have kind of a mixed question

i am single and i'm 27 and

my plan was to buy a home in

october but life happens

and i met a wonderful man and he

is very special to me and um have a

great relationship it's been about a year and

so i'm stuck you know i've got the money saved i've got 20 down i've got the closing costs i've got

you know everything's going great and i'm just trying to decide whether or not i should continue with my

you know dream of buying a home or whether or not i should hold off and see what happens over the next year oh that's a good question have you guys had any discussions lee are you guys in the same city number one are you both in the same part of orlando we are about an hour apart from each other he bought a home about six months before

we met and so he does have a home himself okay have you guys had any of these discussions about where the relationship's going where if you if you have where you guys want to be dtr that's what the kids call it right have you all had the dtr um yes we we do

have you know we have had that discussion um i like i can't say that you know things are moving quickly we're very strong christians and and um we're

both in our you know um you know middle to late you know 20s and so we we do see a future together and um i could see us

getting married maybe in 20

22 2023 and so i

wouldn't think i would hope not any later than 2023.

okay well i mean gosh

whenever there's a big life change that is coming it's on the horizon it may not be set in stone but you know hey i'm going to shift careers as an example and i know i'm probably going to move closer to the city or man i want to do you know i want to be closer to family when i have kids and we want to start a family soon like you you kind of know it's not it's a little bit ambiguous but you know it's coming i probably would pause because i would love for you i love i would love a home to be at least a five-year gig for the most part when you go and buy a home um three to five years and so i would hate for yeah you to go through that buy and then you guys decide to sell and all that you could and it's not the end of the world yet by any means you're doing it by the book but if you do want to pause for six months and rent and kind of just see how it flushes out i i don't think that's a bad thing i always like to look at the other side of the risk which is what happens if you don't and really if you keep saving money and you wait six months or eight months and then you realize this isn't the right relationship then your down payment's 25 that's right you've saved up not you don't lost anything except eight or nine months and you're heartbroken and then you can go buy a house and so you're not off it's the risk on the other side feels greater to me so i'm with you rachel i'd wait hang in there hopefully he's the one hey hurry up dude make it happen quit waiting around 20 21.

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this is the ramsey show triple eight eight two five five two two five it's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to michael in kansas city missouri michael what's going on [Music] um what are your previous callers

um i had student loan debt my wife was

able to graduate debt free and we're able to pay for our master's degrees cash um you know me every single

question is um you're just getting this money

hey michael hey michael i talked directly into your phone man okay there you go brother perfect okay um

i'm kind of opposite of the previous caller um i had student loan debt through from my undergrad my wife graduated debt-free we've paid for our master's degrees with cash but my question is i've got about nine thousand dollars left and through the stimulus money coming in

and having a child in 2020 with the child tax credit on our new tax return

do i wait and see what the president does or do i go ahead and pay it off pay it off paid off today pay it off

today yeah yep yeah if we

wait around to see what bill is going to

pass through what house in congress will be waiting a

long time and so to be able to control

which what you can control it's kind of like the theme i feel like of the show today uh and it's this don't put your future in your destiny in washington dc's hands so i would 1000 be paying it off michael it's for me it's it's a two-part thing number one um i got to see what rachel's talking about ringside i worked with some extraordinary i'm talking about brilliant high character wonderful young men

and women who were in law school who intentionally chose to go do public service work instead of going to big fancy firms where they were going to have big fancy salaries they chose to go do

this work because they wanted to serve their communities and because if they did that work it which is hard grueling work for a decade the government said we're going to come in and wipe those loans away and then when they got to year 8 and nine that went away and so they had sacrificed not only their direction in law school which if you know anything about law school it's just such a trajectory right it's hard to circle back and do something different x number of years down the road but man they had sacrificed five to

seven years of major earning potential because they were they were given this promise right and so there's that i think i think rachel's super wise here's the other thing there is something in i don't share this with everybody so i'm just going to tell you what's in my heart when i took out student loans and i had six figures man my wife and i had six degrees between us

we um and then i went and got another one that the school paid for but i i six degrees between us we had six figures in student loans it was hard i didn't realize on some of these loans i took out what i was signed all that stuff i was not an educated

consumer when it came to that but at the end of the day i signed my name to a piece of paper that said if you will help me get through college for this money i will pay you back and i have a

it's an it became an ethical issue for me that i was working good jobs i had money now this isn't everybody this i was in a fortunate position but i had jobs where i had this money here and if i waited on somebody to come in and pay for it which is my tax dollars anyway all of our tax dollars i struggled with that personally so you're in a situation where you're holding money in your hand right now

i think that in my estimation if you've got that money the right thing to do is to go ahead and pay that off now not everybody shares that ethical deal that's just me but that's just me talking to you michael person to person here but the broader conversation as rachel's talking about is yeah man you don't ever want to wait on those things to make their ways through washington yeah yeah

and depending on you know getting into the we don't have to go down this rabbit hole but the student loan program has

really screwed up a lot of people's lives now did they make the intentional decision to go get into those loans absolutely but the whole program is so frustrating to me on that level that i'm like i wish it just almost it just didn't even exist right that we like went the old school way of of what it looks like to go to school debt-free um so when

i hear the word relief there is a part of me that i'm like yeah i do i want relief for people yeah they had no idea what was they were signed up for yeah yeah like you you kind of like they just got screwed in it even though i know they signed their name to it but man so there is something that i'm like i don't know how

it would be done or what would be done or what that looks like because it probably you know we're not gonna get into the politics of it but i would love a level of relief for people right at some level whatever that looks like but i'm not gonna wait on washington just to deliver it so let's let's get to work because your point two if you got

it if you got it you have it yes yes you got it you got it um another thing is i've heard some of these some of these variants of the relief bill have different um things attached to them you're going to owe us this much community service you're going to owe us as much stuff which i love i love some skin in the game on that right

i think that's good but at the same time michael it goes back to an earlier caller we had or um somebody here in the lobby when you take something from somebody and they attach strings to that gift you're beholden to them right so man good for you i appreciate that question it's a good question i know that i can't tell you how many times we get that call people are all over

the country or wrestling with do i wait what do i do do i just stop paying on that because there's no interest now and some of it may go away later um i just want to say keep going if you can and i hope we can get this thing untangled it's just a mess seven ways to sunday um let's see here let's go to stephanie in bloomington indiana stephanie what's going on hi um

so i'm like 25 000

in debt okay um and i i it doesn't quite

sound like a lot to you guys compared to other people hey listen listen listen any amount any amount stephanie is oh there's folks at 5 000 might as well be a million bucks so 25 grand is 25 grand okay okay fair um so i

i want to start like the baby steps or whatever i've been listening to the show like every single day so i'm like okay it's starting to like click with me but i need a like a boost on how to like go um i have

like the 25 000 in debt and i make about

33 000 a year um

what do you do for a living i have like a um i work at a farm

yeah so um yeah i just don't know where

to start yeah i don't know i don't know how to call the right place it's a great question i don't know how to start a savings when i have credit cards and stuff to be paying off basically for sure well your first step

what you're going to want to do is to get on a really tight

budget stephanie so i want you to we're going to actually give you we'll give you a a membership to ramsey plus so kelly will pick up and give you that because this is our subscription that you can get in we have the baby steps tracker ramsey plus or everyday every dollar plus uh in there that's going to help you all the financial piece videos yes fpu's in

there so take all the courses all of that but every dollar the app is going to be your friend stephanie this is really the starting point because for the first time in your life you're saying hey i actually want to control my money versus my money controlling me hey i actually want to step into this change what i've been doing which is going to be hard stephanie

this is not going to be easy okay you're going to get to point so you have to say no to yourself you're going to get points to say oh i don't really want to do this there's going to be times it's going to be very very hard but the key here is understanding change is hard if you kept doing your normal thing that's comfortable you're going to keep getting

the exact same results that you've been getting and you don't want to so in order to make a change you're going to feel that that tension so just on the so when you when that happens you'd be like oh rachel rachel told me it's this is it this is the friction i'm feeling you're gonna feel it um so understand that emotionally but then yes doing the budget that's gonna be your best friend

and it's your income minus all of your expenses equals zero but that's going to include some giving and saving because your first goal after doing your budget is to get a thousand dollars and that's going to be your starter emergency fund so that means stephanie you're probably you're not going shopping you're not going on vacation you're not going to eat you're not doing any of that you're not spending any extra money you're getting you're doing everything

you can you're working extra so you're going to bump up that thirty three thousand dollars you're gonna work at night and you're gonna do whatever you can to bring in more money and cut expenses at the same time to get that thousand dollars and then you're going to start working your way out of debt so that 25 000 stephanie of debt what what is that uh what what kind of debt does that make up

so i have my car that's a little over 16 000

and i have a total of credit cards that's like 9.40 okay um and then i have a five thousand dollar loan out that i had gotten that was i thought was gonna get me out of my old debt but it just put me more in debt that's right girl don't depend on anyone else to get you out of debt you learn the hard way so i mean

i would even look at selling the car stephanie paying off that 5000 first and then moving up to that 9 400 by sacrificing that lifestyle so you can do it stephanie you can do it it feels like a lot but now you're on the front end of a fun adventure man it's gonna be good hey another hour in the books thanks to kelly thanks to james rachel thank

you everybody be kind to one another we'll be back soon this is the ramsay

show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am dr john dolone joined here by best selling author and good friend rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on your relationships on your money on that upcoming wedding on what to do in

the baby steps we're taking your calls on life and money triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and rachel we've said it every segment gotta say it one more time at least tonight is the big money and marriage event that's right you and i are going to have an adventure down in the tv studios here we're going to beam

it to many more thousands of families that we thought right all over the country tell them all about the event yes we're so excited about this you guys it's our money and marriage events on valentine's weekend that was on purpose the love in your marriage we're going to talk about tonight but oh really how what does it look like what does it look like to have a better marriage

and i think what's interesting is where we are right now in history for some people it's a struggle it's a struggle financially it's a struggle in their marriage like they are just having the worst year of their life right people have said uh and on the other extreme some people have said oh no my business has been booming financially we're doing great or my marriage no we've wanted we've wanted to spend more time together now we're not traveling for work

and we get to be home and it's what we really wanted like so it's all it's this extreme when it comes to these two subjects of money and marriage so i love that right now not only is it valentine's weekend but we're diving into it in this world of 2021 and the craziness that we went through in 2020 to really get no matter where you are on

the spectrum to get you to a place where you know each other deeper you love each other better all of it and working on the same page when it comes to your money so one of the things i've i've heard we get the the bell curve right we get the way outside here the long tail here the long tail here my marriage is better than it's ever ever been

we had to figure some stuff out this year and then with the politics and the election and coveted response all the stuff we've got folks over here going i don't know who you are right i have no idea who i married right yeah i kind of knew i just never asked and now we super know and then you've got millions of people in the middle rachel who man they've actually become really great co-workers they've become they've turned their home their work from home their home school from home into a well-oiled machine

they don't like it it's not optimal but they figured it out they become great roommates but man they've lost that desire right that spark like at the end of the night dude i'm going to bed like i've seen you all day we're good high five good night right and there's the other side of it right which is folks still figuring out the chaos of that home right

so wherever you happen to be tonight is for you we're giving you some actual real tools that you can put into practice tomorrow yes right that you can wake up tomorrow yeah and yeah we said it earlier but it's true yeah you're not gonna just sit there be bored the last thing i want right now dragged you to watch this for an hour and a half and

you thought man we could be watching yellowstone but nope here we are john rachel sitting on a chair lecturing us it's not gonna be like that at all it's gonna be super fun we have fun man so come hang out to us go to daveramsey.com to get your tickets uh dave ramsey.com shows get your tickets and we hope to see you there it's gonna be a good time

and if you're in ramsey plus remember it's really good for free so log in tonight and your amazon membership and you can stream it for free if you've been thinking about doing the ramsey plus free trial you can get online get the ramsey plus free trial and get this event tonight for free too so there's a bunch of ways to watch but we hope to see you

there this evening let's kick it out to christine in new zealand hey christine what's going on

uh good thanks how are you guys super what's going on new zealand christine what time is it there um

it's 10 10 uh a.m

okay very nice okay what's your question for us um we're currently on baby steps three but looking forward to our next step which potentially might be baby step 3b but we've got a unique situation in um where we work we live on a site and that is for

free um and we plan to have this job

for you know the next 10 to 15 years

so just wondering whether we do babysit

3b or move on to four

so you are yeah you're in a yeah that is a unique position because my so i kind of have i had two answers flashed through my head as you were speaking one of them is i mean yeah if you're going to be in that business for 10 years you don't have to pay for housing start investing start looking you know if your kids are going to get a higher education outside of high school what that looks like to save for start working that

and just be saving a ton during that time which is amazing but then the other part of me is like man but i would love for you guys to invest and and have real estate i mean i paid for home is a big part of people's overall financial plan and how they win

long term is having that that's such a big a big asset that i would hate for you guys to completely miss out on so for you guys is home ownership something that you really you want down the road eventually yeah yeah so i

guess our um we're quite young still i'm 32 my husband's 37 so when we potentially leave this job which we really love so that's why we're planning not to do anything anytime soon but we don't want to walk away

with um you know like we'd love to walk away with a pile of money that we've saved that we can put a huge down payment on something yes um and yeah obviously

um have a smaller mortgage at that point um because just with our job and where we live as well we don't really want to own something whilst we're in this job um because we don't really want to be you know landlords or anything like that and we can't really take time to get back to the house yeah for maintenance and stuff like that no absolutely yeah so

i think yeah i think you're in a great position just like you said i would i would i would definitely start investing and then on the side no hey we have a 10-year goal that we want to put 50 down on a home or 75 or a hundred percent down whatever it is and to look out and have that goal out there that you guys are working at together

and i think that that's i think that's perfect hey christine what's your job what where do y'all work

um i don't think you have them over there but we're motile managers so we provide accommodation and part of that is um we have our house attached to the reception so we're on site all the time so i had a the opportunity for the last

gosh 15 years really to work with

colleges and universities and one of my roles there was working with folks who lived on campus you know in the residence halls with these students these are extraordinary people the work you do it never ends it's 3 65

24 7. but they lived on campus and what i would tell you is i always had folks who had multi-year plans i'm going to do this for three to seven years and i'm gonna get this there's an accelerated aging that comes with living where you work right and so it it begins you have a ten

year plan and then two years in it's like what about a five year plan right it's just a lot to ask of yourself when there's something eventually where you want your own yard you want to have your own rules you don't want to have people knocking on your door at 3 4 in the morning or whatever just as a part of that gig okay so yeah i'm with

you there save up that money and man being able to put a hundred percent down on the house how cool yeah but your quality of life in that type of job is it's a it's a big big deal that's a great point so yeah stock that money away invest and then when you're ready to transition out whether it's in two years or 10 years and you'll be able to smile at

the mortgage office with what you're able to put down thanks for the call christine this is the ramsay show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease it was just such a relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of chm is the original and longest serving health cost sharing ministry get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget

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nine all right let's go to tommy in ventura california tommy what's up man how are we doing

hey rachel and john thanks for taking my call you got it brother what's going on john i'm a huge fan of yours and when you step down off that wagon i'm team gummy candy all the way with you hey listen i am in partnership with a navy seal right now and i have to text him every day how many days i am sober from

sugar otherwise i've got a hard hard workout it's hard right now man i am there are some things

oh yeah you're going to get me all thinking about gummy candy man you're getting me all screwed up so what's up brother uh so i'm 29 years

old and i own a wedding venue with my wife a few years a few years ago we got hit by the wildfires and we were forced to shut down until we rebuilt we're finishing up our permits right now we should be open next year and through our downtime we revamped our business plan to being solely focused on the venue to kind of being all-inclusive to include the venue rentals food all

the way down to wedding planning so we have a friend who is a part-time wedding planner in the past she has been vocal and clear that she wants to work for us one day in the past we were open to it but we know now that we're not going to employ her because she doesn't have the experience we want and in the past we've been burned from hiring friends

so we've just made a rule that we're not going to hire friends but we'll recommend them we have not told her our plans for expansion but we feel she should we should let her know what's happening in us hiring full-time planners and not here through the grapevine we want to be kind and compassionate to her but also preserve the friendship we know it's not going to be an easy conversation

and that there will be hurt feelings um but we want to still have that friendship and we want to go about in the wise way i want to see what you guys have to say man who are you dude every time

already pretty cool i think the internets make me just sad about the future i get to talk to a tommy from ventura man reminds me that there are so many extraordinary people out there um tommy here's the thing this is one of those conversations that um is like uh

it's gonna be hard and it's a blessing at the same time okay i would tell you the number one thing that you and your wife need to do going into it is have exactly what you're gonna say and it's gonna sound dorky but maybe even go over it with each other um write down what you want to say in which you communicate one of the things that people do

when they talk to loved ones in hard conversations is they start babbling and they start over communicating and over apologizing and over everything and then next thing you know she's either hired or you've gone one step too far it's because you're not accountable right you just say too much and so keep it short keep it like

i mean your heart you're gonna be a person of dignity you're gonna treat her like a person a dignity which is awesome the second thing i would do is really go into it with an open heart knowing you can't hold the outcome here if she chooses to hate you guys that's her choice not it's not as a result that y'all did the right thing for you and your family

and your business okay and anytime you have these vulnerable conversations these truth-telling conversations are never comfortable and this happens with marriages this happens with kids and their parents it happens with um employees it happens all the time the the if you got this skill of having hard conversations being short direct um you know the

the say it directly don't beat around the bush no we love you but we we're not going to be able to employ you at this time we've got this entire vision we need someone with a lot of experience you're not quite there yet we're so grateful we love you as a friend i know this is super hard for everybody we hope you'll still be our friend in

the in the future man we'll love to use you if we can but right now we're not going to bring you on and that's the end of the conversation okay do you guys recommend like an in-person just like informal like a breakfast lunch or what would you say is the best way to do that

kelly and james are laughing at me because i love having conversations over breakfast this is one it depends on the level of your friendship this is one that feels simple enough for me and

quick enough for me that i don't know that i would um it definitely definitely has to be in person right definitely to meet in person there but it could be over coffee it could be a broader conversation i don't think it needs to this one feels pretty pretty slow pretty quick unless this is somebody that you are super tight with your kids play together y'all been through

the ringer together y'all went to college together something like that where it's going to be i'm going to go over to your house and we're going to have a conversation i've made a few of those in my lifetime that's great just not over text don't do anything over text right like i thought yeah and

man i'm grateful for your heart tommy that's good rachel what do you think yeah for sure and i would say yeah i think you and your wife being on the same page i know conversations that winston and i have had to be in together we know we have a plan going in so no i don't think that's cheesy at all john i think that's very very wise

and such a great point that people babble that is me i will like go keep keep going keep going keep going oh my gosh is that too much and then all of a sudden i've hired him yeah right i've i i didn't hire him for this i think you're great yeah that's right and we're hiring a full-time nanny it's gonna be you right or you end up saying

you try to defend yourself so much you insult somebody that's right that's right that's right you don't treat him with respect and dignity and just just your whole spirit about this tommy is so good and um it's a good reminder for me to always

remember who's the listener right who's the who's the person receiving this information that's right right so good for you brother all right let's go to jorge in detroit michigan is it jorge or george brother

there's already how you guys doing all right all right um good man what's going on how can we help i'm saying say my call first of all um let's make some advice from you guys i listened to dave ramsey show when you guys ever once in a while so i know you guys are good solid advice um at the moment i just kind of feel trapped um i'm 29

i started a business a photography business about three years ago and the only reason i did that is because i was kicked out of high school in ninth grade and i never went back i never got another degrees or nothing to be honest and i knew i had this talent so i was just like why not help why not go ahead and pursue it you know so

i started doing that and i'm to the point where i'm doing pretty decent whether this is growing i would like it to be um and now i'm to a point where i have no degrees but i'm an entrepreneur i own my own business i've been in rooms with people and i work with people who have all these degrees from harvard just fell into just you name it doctors

and lawyers and everything i have no idea that i have no degrees and i'm going to keep it that way there you go good for you brother yeah the only thing i was questioning was this should i even consider maybe going back and getting that gd or getting any degree at all or should i just keep striving the way i'm doing it and just see what i can do without

it that's my question to you guys man rachel you mind if i hop in on this go go john you're the you're there so there's two a two-pronged answer to this okay tell me if i'm right or wrong here number one you're real real smart and

you probably lined up next to get if i went and found 25 guys i bet you would be confident that you would outwork them is that correct oh for sure for sure yeah and i bet you've got a standard of excellence that rides real high when you're dealing with people's photographs you're dealing in the business of people's memories and my guess is your attention to detail and excellence is high is that right

it is very correct yeah all right so when it comes to excellence perseverance hard work you've got those three things and you also have a demon in your soul about getting kicked out of school in ninth grade don't you i do and there's something about

you walking into that room where you know i am just everybody in this room put their pants on today i've got value just like everybody in this room but they told me back when i was 14 years old that i'm not good enough am i right so you pretty much got it

yeah all right so here's the thing you don't need to go to school to learn work ethic you don't need to go

to school brother to learn how to grind and talk to different people and learn all these soft social skills but if you're my best friend if you and i were just hanging out and having a drink on the back patio i would tell you i want you to take that 14 year old boy go get that ged for nobody else but for you nobody else

but for you and there's some some kind of closure some kind of healing that's going to come from that do you need it no but man would it launch you

yeah so mandy i want guys like you in my

community brother it's so good i say go get that ged

and if you hey if you don't you're still good just [Music]

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this is the ramsey show i'm john deloney with my good friend rachel cruz and we're taking your calls on money relationships and life triple eight eight two five five two two five it's triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel we got a lot

going on here on the valentine's day extravaganzas huh

that's right valentine's day everyone sunday don't forget it and one of the

big things when it comes to your money to make progress is to be on the same page with your spouse you have to learn to work together as a team reach your goals as a team and really see yourself as one and to help to get on the same page we have gathered some of our best-selling books budgeting tools and bundles for couples and one big sale

you can save up to 83 on gifts that's going to help you reach your financial goals so this is the last week for the sale do not miss it and

don't miss again our money marriage live stream which is happening tonight you can still get tickets it's myself rachel cruz and dr john zalone will walk you through how to have a fun date night and have great conversations when it comes to your money so you can visit daveramsey.com backslash store to get your live stream tickets and the valentine's day's gifts to help you build a bright future with your spouse

and that sale ends february 14th so sunday so you've been having this these conversations with couples for years and years and years long before i was around

why is it so hard for couples to come

together around their money when when i i off-handedly mentioned something the other day about having this a joint checking account and you would have thought oh you know what i mean it was just like i was speaking like a different language and um it didn't occur to me that that was such a radical notion right so you've been talking to these couples why is that so hard for people to come together

i mean i think it's a couple of things i think ultimately we're told this lie out in our culture that yeah just because you're married you still need to be independent you still can't fully depend on your spouse you still you still need to to have your thing to make sure that you're okay in case something happens like there's there's all these kind of messages or that

you deserve to spend what you want you make more money so go and do it like there's like this division when it comes to money and it feels different i don't know tell me if i'm wrong but it feels different than even parenting yeah but it even feels different than like your relationship with your in-laws and like talking about boundaries like around holidays all that feels money still feels like

it can be this independent entity within marriage and people believe that it's a it's a tool so i know over the last 25 30 years as we've still got a long way to go as a country but as women have gained more economic independence it's shifted some conversations right yes like it's women are have more excess like more accessibility more ability to move in and out of um hard conversation hard situations

but it feels like when like when i was just thinking when you were saying this when when couples are you're married but you still need to make sure you're going to be okay yes that's going into a situation but leaving the a crack in the door right which we all know when you if you do that relationally right you're just setting it up for it not to hold right yeah

so so i think we have been told that you still you need to right you need to run on these separate tracks so what does that end up doing that ends up literally ruining marriages because you'll see that money like you said it's just a tool and so i talk about my new book but it's true like so many life problems and marriage problems masquerade themselves as money problems it's not really that

you have a budgeting problem with your spouse it's that you guys have no idea how to have empathy with each other you have no idea how to communicate like it's other issues it's coming out as money but it's really some other things going on within the marriage and it's like this ban it's like oh so so people live these separate lives because it's just easier we got

you like oh yeah it's just easier if he has his and i have mine and we will go 10 years just quote unquote not avoiding that big hard conversation because it's quote unquote easier right and then you end up in a your wreck's coming either way right you're gonna have to have a conversation at some point that's right so the avoidance of it people think that they're doing a great job

and like no no no and so that's hard to i think people are just opposites you know so like winston and i we from the beginning because we got married so young we have quote unquote you know been won

when it comes to our money we budget together all that but still to this day we just had this conversation it was two mornings ago about a big purchase i want to make and i'm like oh okay we have the money like can we just do it he's like man he's like i just don't sold the price tag babe he's like because it's an experience so it goes away

after we do it and he's like how many more things could we buy like we're just opposite in how we how we want to even use money at times right and it takes this it's a give and take of me hearing and understanding that him hearing and understanding me getting out of the place of of neediness that i have in the purchase his fear and what that really is right

so there's like all these root issues when you can get to that and have a good conversation then you can say hey we are different but we love each other well and serve each other well and there may be a give and take on certain months but but we make it work so tell me if this analogy works i had somebody or several people reach out and say

i would never have a joint checking account again i'm never going to be unified in money because one time

i got hurt real real bad right somebody

my previous girlfriend a previous spouse took advantage of me i'm never doing it again previous boyfriend took off with everything i have i'm never doing it again it's always gonna be separate tracks from here on out and the analogy that went into my head is

sometimes i've gone to a store and bought an appliance and i took it home and plugged it in and it worked for like a month and then it broke does that mean i should never have a refrigerator again right it doesn't it just means that i gotta go through a hard process to get that whole thing out box it back up take it all the way back get my money back

it doesn't mean that it's broken to suit because you got hurt one time that's right you got to grieve it and what makes me sad too is those people that make those absolute statements in their minds they go into another relationship setting themselves up and and that other person now is having

to reap the reap the terrible results of

something that they didn't have anything to do with so they're they're absolutes yeah their their their attempt to protect themselves is guaranteeing the next relationship isn't going to be successful yes and that they're having and that poor other spouse or significant other is paying the price for someone they didn't even know and they're like no and and then that and instead of saying hey i'm going to be vulnerable

and this is going to be hard and scary and i got burned back yes but i'm going to allow myself to open up because that's going to be a that's going to show trust yeah right within the marriage i don't know you're the psychologist well if you take if you take the word vulnerability a a synonym for it is exposed right yes

yes you are putting yourself in a position that somebody could hurt you and that is the unfortunately the only

way you can truly be loved is to be to offer yourself up that way yeah and if two people offer themselves up that way then you can come together if you hedge your bets in a relationship man so that's great wisdom i appreciate that i've been i've been caught off guard by it and um i love isn't it funny that's like the one thing if i post on social media

i can say cut up your credit cards i hate student loans like i can i can throw out these things but if i say join your checking accounts you would then come out right i ran over someone's dog yeah and i meant to and was like ha ha here i am in my car being this terrible person oh people get

it but i can hear that it's scary right that's right if you've been hurt if you've got no model for it that's right but i want people to get beneath that and say man if you're going to be with somebody if you're going to pledge i'm going to be with you forever that means you are all in all cards on the table you're not joining you're checking out with some dude

you met at the bar right right you're doing it with a sp with the person you're married to that you're committed to for life go all in you go into that marriage ceremony and say we are doing this for life that's what marriage is when you go all in you could lose right but that's that's a risk that's that's and that's the beauty of it i love

it all right let's go to andrew in toronto andrew what's going on man hey guys how are you thank you for taking my call it's awesome you bet man what's up uh so my question is that um my fiance

and i we sat down we spoke about baby steps we

have just entered the baby step number two very excited to you know get the snowball debt rolling but then now it just hit me that we have a wedding to now prepare for save for just i i kind of

got like a roadblock like what would be this what would we what sorry what would the steps be do we stop with this with this baby step number two save for the wedding somehow do both just kind of want to get your guys taken so let's do this lucky for you andrew we have a marriage and planning expert in rachel cruz right here and also a baby step expert all in one human being after the break we'll come back and then we will pick up from there you are listening to the ramsay show

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scripture of the day is second corinthians 1 5 for as we share abundantly in christ's sufferings so through christ we share abundantly comfort too abraham lincoln says be sure to put your feet in the right place then stand firm

good ol abraham lincoln all right so we're talking to andrew in toronto andrew you are getting married

you are planning for a wedding and you're in baby step two you're also trying to pay off debt all at the same time do i got that about right yes yes sir that's it okay andrew how much how much will you guys be making together combined income after you get married um 110 okay and how much debt will you

both have going into the marriage

uh that would be about probably sixty sixty thousand sixty thousand okay okay well so the rule with baby step two is when you have a big life event coming up you know maybe you're getting laid off you know you'll be losing a job maybe you are pregnant and expecting you have a wedding coming up there is a time and place to pause the baby steps and to save on

the side for this event that you know is coming up so that would be the same for the wedding um but for you guys i mean i and again

there's not a there's not a dollar amount specifically or a percentage that you guys need to save i number one don't want you going into debt for the wedding and then number two you guys have debt so knowing okay we're probably not going to have this crazy extraordinary massive expensive wedding

we're we're gonna do it as as well and as much as we can love it and it'd be inexpensive and being aware of the cost all of that because what that's going to do is it what you spend on the wedding and then what you don't spend on the wedding is going to affect how fast you guys pay off this debt so um so focusing yes i would i would

pause baby step two to answer your questions save up a little bit for the wedding making sure that that's covered and then you can press play on baby step two once you have that amount of money or after you guys get married but um but and john you can speak to this more and more but i'm like the wedding is wonderful right and it's every especially the the woman in the relationship we you love it's what you dream about it's your wedding day it's fantastic um but it's but it is a

day as wonderful and as celebratory it is it is a day and we just live in a culture that we go insane go insane for weddings so we're going to talk about this uh on a previous show and i'm glad you're here so let's do this okay so help me help me if i can remember help me figure this out number one i think that we as a culture

have stripped out all traditions

all ceremony all pageantry and i think that's to our detriment we have we go in

and we just mow down these wonderful but small older homes we knock down grandma's house and we look at it as how many tall and skinnies can we shove into this square footage right and we take this home that will be here for 300 years and we just knock it down because we can get some more roi in that way i think that's just a cultural thing why are we still doing weddings let's get rid of them so there's a part of me that is all about man weddings used to be a

big deal right a week long two weeks they were celebrations right there's that then the other side of it is people are spending 30 50 100 000

oh yeah plus on a day

a day and that sounds insane to me

right my my wedding was so great

so fun and i don't i know it wasn't that

right so walk me through that balance between the importance of the day versus man we've kind of lost our mind a

little bit on the circus and the ceremony of it all yeah i feel like i'm talking to both sides of my mouth right but no it's true but it's true it's a balance and i think that that's the key and i think knowing your motivation on why you want the kind of wedding you want is important okay right like i okay well i want the most beautiful centerpiece

i want all of this because i want the great pictures i want people to see it i want people to be impressed like what's your motivation to have these things or for it to look a certain way and i bet if you stripped it down to say okay let's just say nobody sees the wedding but you and your you and your fiance

so you know many more people than you know many more brides than than i do you hang out with them right let me say it this way hang out that sounded weird all the brides all the brides i hang out with you've had more conversations about wedding in your lifetime than i have how about that um how much of a ceremony how much of

the the extravagance of a wedding is so we can have those pictures

um probably a significant part

yeah and i think people because this is how i feel even 11 years after marriage you want people to have fun you want people to come to your wedding and be like that was a fun wedding and that's how i am i love that idea yeah man that was a fun great wedding so like that would be the pressure i put on myself today but yeah your pictures

i mean whether it's the albums or what you put online now like all of that i mean yeah i mean i feel like that that's a that's a big part of it so i don't have a solution i i just i like the conversation because i feel like i'm knowing your motive your heart your motivation on why what's your why and do you have the money and

then here's the other talking on both sides of our mouths even if you have the money do you do

is that good use of yourself is it necessary yeah you know where at the point is it like a so is it a is it a percentage of your net worth maybe that's i don't you know whatever it looks like but it's it's an interesting conversation because people can do it on these extremes right and it's a whole industry i mean they oh people are taking out loans to go get a photo booth

you know at the reception right now or you can just cram all your buddies in the backyard and have a great old time and at the same time yeah there's something about that legacy that big event that everybody comes to right right it's the centerpiece event so i don't have any good answers you all america i just was hoping rachel could help me and she cannot so all right

let's go to

corey in des moines iowa corey what's going on brother how can we help um so i uh with this cold temperatures

coming we got uh essentially laid off for a week and a half i'm sorry no it's it's

uh we're doing okay but uh

how do you plan for that in baby step two because the thousand dollar emergency fund i make uh quite a bit of money uh low 200s

and losing a month

or a week and a half of pay

how do you plan for that outside of

baby step one um

because we're getting pretty well intense on baby step two but now we were in this

crisis of sorts and

is that something that you balance the year and save some money throughout the year for this and how much would you save being gazelle intense uh corey do you know when the when those times that you won't be working and not getting a paycheck do you know ahead of time kind of when those are coming or do you know the day of how how much of a time frame do you have

so with the weather right now we found out last friday

that we would not work this week okay and then monday and tuesday it's going to be cold temperatures again so as of right now uh we won't be working until wednesday okay so you're is it when you don't work is it like a week at a time or do you foresee like a month you'll be out of work at any point um or is it usually short-term usually

it's it's short-term and i've been doing this career for 20 years and this is only the second time it's happened so it's rare yeah yeah but i was i was kind of unprepared and hopefully in a year i won't have to worry about it sure but um yeah i i would be great people too because because our goal for you especially on baby step two is that

you cover your four walls so you have your food your shelter utilities and transportation that you have that covered and i don't want you getting behind on debt either and so there's a level of your your um standard of living that you have having a budget no okay these are the bills that we absolutely have to pay and i'm not talking about clothing or miscellaneous or out to eat like

these are the things that absolutely have to be paid and if you know okay we're probably i i'm not gonna have enough time to save for those things because i get a day or two days notice i would be okay with you setting some money aside knowing that i'm in an industry that i won't get a paycheck for a week and knowing that that is a reality um that's okay cory to do

and to plan for that now that's not to say you know if you have a salary job out there as a accountant that's not me saying that okay you need to save more than a thousand dollars on baby step one because you have a predictable income but when you are in an industry like you said corey that there's a chance you won't have the money and that thousand dollars will not cover your bills putting some aside is okay corey how long have

you all been uh uh you know what keep the keep it going we just got ran up against the clock so hey we want to encourage you in your debt-free journey i want to thank james childs and kelly daniel for their superior production of today's show i think bobby the engineer rachel you got a future in this if you'll keep working hard it's going to be great john excited about tonight money

and marriage we'll see at the money marriage event dave ramsey.com to get your tickets thank you for joining us be kind to one another this has been the ramsey show

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you

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## 194. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 23, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money it's a free call at triple eight eight two five five two two five and some say

the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it jeff is with us in birmingham hey jeff how are you i'm doing well dave how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world

so my wife and i are currently on baby step three we have right at three months of expenses saved up uh we have a potential move on our hands

i've got a job opportunity potentially coming up in april and may and we also she has a 20 year old car

we're looking to replace and we just found out two weeks ago she is expecting our first child so hey yeah we're very excited

but we're just curious what is your advice on the next step should we begin uh baby step four yet should we hold off and start saving for those things what should we do wow

well i mean all three of them

are predictable events and so we should save in addition to an emergency fund because they're not really an emergency since they're predictable yeah yeah yeah absolutely how much do you think it would take you to move jeff is your job going to give you a moving allowance it potentially will but i

don't know that exact figure yet so that there is some from cash there that i might be able to get i think possibly up to about a thousand dollars in moving expenses sounds good i wouldn't worry about the car right now i heard you said you went to uh going ahead and replace that eventually i'm not worrying about the car um if i am you i am moving on to babysit four

and i am starting the the investment process but also at the same time like dave said i am going to be focusing on saving for the baby um and then finding out if i am going to get some moving expenses for my company if not then yes you may pause babysit before so you can go ahead and prepare to move because that is a priority that is a must yeah

when you add all three of these things together what's going to come out of pocket for the move and out of pocket for the baby in particular i'd want to make sure you have that yeah in addition to your emergency fund but before you move on to baby step four uh but buying the car i think you can probably save up for to do to do that

and that car will make it a little while it didn't suddenly become old it was already old three months ago before you got all these other pieces of information right so um you know you do want to you do want to again budget to pay cash for it so you don't end up with another stupid car payment right absolutely absolutely well i will tell you uh this is breaking news

we have not told anybody so i'll just let you know you're the first one to know that we're expecting our first child oh uh you should have told your parents before you told anthony yeah cause i'm gonna tell the whole world you know i'm just let you know right now just told 21 million people dude that's it well congratulations we are planning to do that this weekend just our schedules haven't allowed for

it oh no you you need to call them uh it's too late they've already heard it well congratulations we're so proud for you man that's awesome and yeah uh so babies first travel or move is second and car is third and depending on your household income how quickly you could pile up enough money to take care of those i might pause a little bit and let's just get ready for a known situation

the beautiful thing is is you're actually thinking about all this and doing it intentionally it's not happening to you you're happening to it yes sir and dave i don't have any kids but you do so you know when i had my first child is it safe to say about five to ten grand is a good extra cushion for a baby it depends depends on what your insurance is going to cover uh

you know what health insurance for this company will cover the labor and delivery uh and what's his deductible and does he have an hsa and you know what's out of pocket um if you're paying cash for it yeah you would need that okay you'd need 10k probably in today's world uh and

you know if you if you do not have insurance for labor and delivery but most places do nowadays yeah and uh most most policies do and so

uh you know what's your co-pay what's your deductible and you can calculate and get an estimate what your out of pocket is going to be not what the total cost is because that doesn't matter gotcha what matters is what you're gonna have to pay and then uh and you've got nine months to get ready for that apparently or eight and uh um

then we've got a you know we've got a thousand dollars will not move you right and so if you got a 5 000 move you got another 4 000 there right and so if you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year you can do this real quick if you're making fifty thousand dollars a year you're probably going to take a few months to get ready for all of

these things that are coming at you yeah that's what you're facing way to go man very cool sean is in pittsburgh hey sean how are you hi dave thank you so much for taking my call sure how can we help so four years ago my wife and i bought a house in colorado that turned out to be a big mistake because we couldn't afford it we bought too much house

and we ended up selling it two years later made about 30 grand profit off of it used it to sell to get rid of all the debt we had and we moved out to west virginia where i got a job as a youth pastor and now that job has kind of ended and we're looking at moving back to colorado and i was wanting to ask you if

it would be a good idea um our plan here we're thinking about moving in with my parents that live right next to uh where we work in colorado remotely right now we're thinking about moving in with my parents and living their rent free to save up a bunch of money for a little while and then buying a lot of land and then using that land as collateral to get a loan to build a house instead of buy one outright

because of the market out there the houses are so expensive we're like well we could probably save a bunch of money and have tons of equity in the house already if we just built one instead of buy one so sean let me ask you a couple of questions before dave jumps in here uh you said you're working remotely so are you no longer pastoring and are you doing you're doing something else yeah

so uh the the youth pastoring job i have here is um i feel like god's calling me on to

other things in colorado to move back there and so i put in my notice that i'll be leaving in july when my lease is up at our apartment here in west virginia and we're going to be moving back to colorado and what will you be doing and how much money will you all be making a year so um i will be pursuing a new job to

like make more income but right now what we will be making my wife and i together will be about um 60 to 65 a year

okay cool so here's my answer real quick before we go to our commercial break uh no i don't want you to go back in with your parents and i and i don't even want you to get a piece of land right now you need to go ahead and just get a solid foundation i would go rent an apartment and then follow the baby steps from there because

it sounds like you don't have three months in your emergency fund already correct yeah yeah so get an apartment live below your means and go in the head you said you paid off all your debt get your three to six months set aside then you and your wife can start looking at land down the road we don't need to move into your parents house skip over babysit three

they go buy a house you're going to be right back in the situation you are today so get an apartment get three months and you'll be straight yeah that's exactly right the um the idea of buying a piece of land and building a house and having a bunch of instant equity is not it's not going to work out that way when you finish building a house you're going to have almost in

it what you would have had had you bought a house that's what it costs to build a house and so you don't get like a 50 discount because you built from the ground up it doesn't work that way so no i think you i think anthony's right you need to get a little apartment and get your jobs and your careers solidified and then start gradually working your way back into homeownership at that point that's going to be your best bet

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host thanks for joining us on the ramsay show emily is with us in green bay wisconsin hi emily welcome to the show how can we help hi um so my husband and i got married in

november and we've been talking about having a baby not right this very second but sometime in the near future but all these numbers that you see everyone says it's so expensive like hundreds of thousands of dollars and i'm a planner so i'm just wondering how do we decide if we are financially prepared for a baby uh you

are yeah i was about to say if it's a hundred thousand dollars to have a baby emily i'm never having a baby

those numbers are um are

stretched uh and they really mostly come

into play if you get into a super large family but

if you have a couple of children the vast majority of your electric bill does not change your water bill changes a little but not that much your food bill will change some but not that much first couple years you got some formula and diapers and other things mandatory pediatrician bills that uh come at you and that kind of stuff uh we always joked and said it's mandatory it's federal law in

the first three years of a child's life to pay the pediatrician's porsche bill but they they don't really make that much money the pediatricians don't but it's still fun to mess with them but the um uh yeah so you're gonna have some

costs but the idea that you need to have 200 000 in the bank before you have a child is absolutely ludicrous no or will you realize over the scope of their life that you spent 200 000 on them no you won't even realize it because it's just like you know we get a little bit more macaroni we get a little bit more another six-pack of coca-cola or whatever i mean you just whatever it is that the family eats they're just gonna eat it and so you know if you're asking the

question out loud you probably can afford it okay yeah have a baby emily

we don't we do not have never in the history of ramsey solutions told someone to have a child or not have a child based on their financial situation yeah now obviously you want to use common sense and reasonableness and if you're completely broke and you make 21 000 a year don't have 16 children it's a problem you know that kind of thing that's common sense and reasonableness

but you know the typical middle class family doesn't have any trouble affording in air quotes of their children you're going to be just fine i agree i like that answer dave i'm proud of you on that answer well thanks i feel better about myself

but you know what dave i i have said this so tell me if i'm wrong for saying this i don't believe in the first six months to a year you should you should have a baby of your marriage it should be spent with y'all two getting to know each other and figuring out what you're going to do with your life yeah that's not a financial equation though that's just a space equation and

you know most couples do that yes um but

other couples are um really excited to have children i know uh and and that's okay too if you want to do that i i we enjoyed a couple years like you're talking about before denise came along and um and we've enjoyed every year since she came along as well so um and none of them were her fault one way or the other so that's you know that the first baby right but the um but

yeah anytime in any area of your life money relationships anything you can give yourself margin yeah that's a good thing margin's

never a bad thing it gives you a little it kind of smooths out the waves of life a little bit all right milton is in tampa florida hi milton how are you hi dave pleasure to speak with you in earthening this afternoon sure um my question so um i've been

contributing to my 401k for about 28 years now and just last year they opted to give us an option of a roth 401k so i took that option and i stopped

um contributing to the traditional 401k and started contributing to my roth ira good the match is the same on the raw good as it was on the traditional good so although although i currently have about a two million dollar net worth i figured anything i can put together tax that gross tax free would benefit me in the long run you are right but my but the question is can i roll over the roth portion of my 401k into my

roth ira yes

it will be a different it will be a technically a different account number but you can always roll over a your 401

k to your roth ira if you've left the company are you still working for the company yeah i'm going to be with the company for about another six to eight years you can't move a 401k while you still work there well no that's i was just trying to be uh trying to get ahead of the game here to see if if i would do that when i did leave oh yeah i guess i would do that yeah yes i would do that okay because i okay because i couldn't see the the difference it's one account number and it shows with my 401k and my statement right it isn't broken down as to roth and tradition right how old are you i'm 54.

how much is in the traditional portion of your 401k the bulk of it is i know how much which is about one point about 1.6 million okay i might begin to move

some of that into roth and pay the taxes on it now inside that 401k

okay because let's say you move 500 000 over and you pay the taxes on a hundred thousand bucks okay or whatever they come out something like that hundred hundred and a quarter will be your taxes before tax rates go up and apparently they're going to according to the president he says he's going to raise taxes tax rates and so uh on people that have the kind of money you've got

and so uh before that happens maybe you move some of it into roth and go ahead and pay the taxes on it and then let that additional 500k grow tax-free from this point forward

so so paying that i wouldn't have i

i don't have the hundred and a quarter i only have about 60 yeah okay well you don't need to do

it then you don't need to do it i was thinking maybe with that kind of net worth you had some cash outside of retirement but no you don't need to do that but whatever you can afford to move and pay the taxes with cash out of your pocket i would go ahead and begin to move it inside that 401 k 2 roth now when you retire whatever's roth you can move to a roth and it will be a different account number than your current roth ira but it could be in exactly the

same mutual funds as your current one

okay but rollovers just don't combine with existing is all technically but it's just a it's just a fine line okay i appreciate it

yeah so very cool man you've done great congratulations did you you didn't inherit any of this it's all 401k money so you became worth 2 million from the ground up starting with nothing way to go thank you very much that's impressive and 54 years old worth a couple million dollars that's exciting to me dave that's how it works i mean listen you can't stop saying you can't be a millionaire follow

the steps you'll get there he's not a millionaire he's a couple of millionaires that's probably bad grammar but you know i think we knew what you meant yeah he's a millionaire two times over right yes sir there you go all right a multi millionaire yes there we go i

like that's working good i really do i really do now let's say dave he did have the cash would you even say hey go ahead and move the whole 1.6 over to the roth if he had the cash it would be very hard to swallow okay emotionally but mathematically then from this point forward it would all grow tax-free yes that's going to work out for him and

because he's going to pay taxes at a higher tax rate later because the tax rates are probably going up yeah if this current president and congress have their way and i suspect they will because they all agree on everything right so um you know that it looks like taxes

on evil wealthy people are going up so then mathematically

it makes sense to do it now because you save yourself money if you have the funds to do it right now if you just take the money out of the ira i mean like reduce the 1.6 balance by enough to pay the taxes right then it's a wash mathematically because that portion you took out would have grown to enough to pay the taxes anyway yes so you would been okay yes

but you'll come out better off if you've got a 10-year period of time or more to roll if you can pay it out of your pocket in other words your baby steps seven yep you got extra money laying around he's a multi-millionaire now you don't need to fool with that if you're in baby steps two or three or four or five whatever and they're six you still mean pay off your house

first before you talk about that strategy yes but any money you can get out of taxable accounts if you're gonna become wealthy uh is gonna be a good idea because that the tax rates are in the political climate appear to be going up this is the dave ramsey show

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on the debt free stage in the lobby of

ramsey solutions justin and heather are with us hey guys

how are you hey dave hey anthony welcome where do you guys live we live right outside of memphis tennessee and collierville town oh yeah about three hours down the road though yeah that's right welcome to nashville and all the way over here to do your debt-free scream how much have you paid off just around four hundred and seven thousand dollars goodness how long did that take it took a little over eight years it took a while okay that works too and your range of income during that time we started off around 140 got up to

about 190 for a couple years and then we're back down around the 140 range again i went part time oh okay good for you well i'm guessing with this amount and how long it took it must be you paid off your house yes sir we did look at it weird people

that's right what is this what is this paid off house worth uh 360 370. wow

it's all yours yeah how old are you two weirdos uh i'm 34 and today's her 35th birthday

unbelievable yeah wow way to go happy birthday

very nice what better way to celebrate yeah man baby let's go i love it

man four hundred and seven thousand and eight years so tell us the story how did you get started on this and what happened well um i went to pharmacy school so that was a pretty big chunk of the money that was about seventy thousand dollars and he was working at one of your momentum churches during that time uh bellevue baptist church um and he's uh he's a pastor

so he was on staff there and um they went through your whole program yeah and he had actually read i think total money makeover before i was in a bookstore and saw your face on a book and i was like right i'm gonna get it on a whim and just read it in spite of the picture there you go yeah and uh read it in the morning just

i think i was around 24 or so at the time yeah and uh kind of went from there we've been leading fpu classes and we took our whole church through it last year yeah it was just super cool to see um how god used you guys in our lives but also in life for our church because we didn't know what 2020 was going to bring yeah and

we took our whole through church through it through 2019 and then boom and it really helped a lot of people yeah pastor gaines is a good man he's a good friend and we're at collierville first baptist now and they've gone through it as well oh wow um but anyway yeah i i just

remember having this distinct memory taking out loans in pharmacy school which i had some help from scholarships but not enough but i remember checking my loan balance and i think i did it like i checked it one day and then i checked it the next day and it had gone up like two or three hundred dollars in one day and i was like oh my gosh these have to die like as soon as i get out of school like this is just not going to work like i'm not going to keep letting this pile up on us so so how long you guys have been married 13 years almost wow yeah okay coming up on 13.

the gratitude journal her contentment journal and just trying to daily remind myself just to be satisfied with what i have and to be content in that and that kind of helped along her journey yeah but the house that was just a marathon man that just takes a while to go from the consumer debt to your your mortgage i mean consumer debt and i'm pretty sure you did your savings account three to six months yes

but then what why like why did you want to attack the mortgage i know that's babysit six but you're young you're 30 you're in your 30s and your 20s like yeah why what was the thought process behind that well one of the things when you go through fpu you go you go through it with people in different life stages and i saw and heard so many stories of empty nesters who would say

i wish i had this in my 20s and 30s yeah and they were speaking wisdom into our life of saying if you do this now you'll be more free later and that's kind of how i viewed it as not holding my future kind of in chains but being being

fiscally responsible so that in the future i could do whatever the lord calls me to and i'm not bounded by debt and so that's kind of helped us over the last few months as we've been out of debt is we can now give more to things that we're passionate about and uh and when a water line busts in

your house you're not freaking out because you know you've prepared for it so it's so good and you can go part time with a house full of kiddos yeah that's yes that's been huge that's been huge big lifestyle change and it's because we've worked the program honestly you've led fpu you've paid off your home at 34 years old you've done it all you're absolute heroes tell people what the key to getting out of debt is uh again i would say being content um

and then just sticking with the budget and working the plan it's kind of a bad plan is better than no plan at all but this is a good plan and i always tell people you know when it comes to fpu i'm not a paid salesman i'm a satisfied customer and i just tell people you know just work it and give it time and you know you say it's uh we're we're

in the crock pot business not the microwave business and it's tough and i would just say like if there's anyone out there who maybe you're beginning this kind of whole process i just want to encourage you because um it's going to take some time and it's hard but it's worth it and having been on the tail end of this just encourage people that it's worth the work you're going to be free

and you're going to be able to give like never before and you're gonna have freedom and it's it's great so so over the eight years what was the hardest thing that you two had to get over i don't know

um well you never want to get in the comparison game of comparing yourself to other people yeah because even when she was in pharmacy school uh there were people buying like mercedes and just taking out more and more loans and we're just thinking you are crazy for doing this and uh and to say you know but what i've seen is what's helped us anthony is god has just been

so faithful throughout the whole time and he's provided for all of our needs and i just i'm i'm a believer that when we're faithful to him he's faithful to us and you reap what you sow and so part of it is just sticking with the plan and um putting your big boy pants on and just getting after it and it works it works you guys were obviously very unified in

the process too yeah i mean i'm the spender so there were definitely some times when i was not happy about not being able to do something but um now you can do anything yeah within reason but yes

you got no freaking house family i'm just saying wow that's so impressive you guys are amazing very very well done and you brought the kiddos with you to do the debt-free screen what are their names and ages uh madeleine is our first she's

seven and anna kate is five mm-hmm and little

truman is a coveted baby he's one all right

go truman matching shirt with dad that's

right baby that's awesome man well done well we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires that's definitely the next chapter in your story thank you for leading financial peace through your church and thank you for doing this stuff absolutely i'm so proud of you guys very very well done all right anna cape madeleine and truman are you ready to scream say yes you're ready are you ready all right we're gonna count it down justin and heather from memphis tennessee 407 000 paid off in eight years making

140 to 190 to 140 house and everything 34 years old

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're dead

[Applause] fabulous oh man that's perfect

that that young family and they don't have a house payment that's going to be so much money in 20 years listen making that kind of income these are definitely millionaires within the next few years yeah and they know how to control it and they've completely reformed yeah their brains renewed their minds as the bible says yes be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

and that's what they did it's absolutely incredible very very very well done what an inspiration and those little kids man their lives are changed forever oh for sure and their kids yeah that's dead three kids yeah i mean this is uh incredible they're gonna be in such a completely different place stuff we teach works guys it works it's that simple yeah wow

this is the ramsey show

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well tax season is upon us i know try to

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check out ramsey smart tax by tax texting tax two three three seven

eight nine quinn is with us in denver hi

quinn how are you i'm doing good how are you doing dave better than i deserve what's up hey so i'm in baby step two

i still owe 80 on my student loans i started at 120 i paid off 40 last year making 50.

good for you uh and i have some medical

issues um i had like five surgeries uh when i was going through high school in college in my left knee and i no longer have cartilage in my left knee and i need to get these very expensive shots they're about you know a thousand dollars a shot one one a week for three weeks every nine to 14 months and i was curious how do i plan that into my budget where do i do the second option my doctor is giving me which is a ten thousand dollar stim what is it called the stem cell

treatment um how do i plan that into

into my budget um so that i can uh

not be in as much pain as i am walking around wow i'm sorry that's awful what do you make you said 50. you said 50. yeah i make i make around 50. i make a lot of overtime so i made like 58 in overtime last year so what do you do i'm an engineering project coordinator for uh med device and drug r d company

so you're around this stuff all day long and then you need some of it huh

okay um well i mean

it it sounds i don't know what the uh uh

probability of the stem cell is is that a hundred percent does that work all the time or is it just a hope it's it's a it's a uh they say it's not fully approved by the insurances yet because they're still doing their their trials so but it but the science looks good when i looked at it because because i know how to read those papers yeah but i'm saying

if you do this is it a 98 chance you're going to be okay and never have to do like a 70-ish percent chance which is very high yeah and in my my understanding of the world okay all right i don't know anything about this i'm just trying to gauge three thousand dollar shots and pain for three thousand dollar shots yeah three three you know three one thousand dollar shots

and pain regularly versus ten well you break even after three rounds of that right yeah and minus the pain and i'm pretty

much a coward so i don't like pain um so i'm trying to figure out a way to do that but you've got 80 000 of student loan debt left left

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so if you make it one more year without doing this procedure that's going to cost you three thousand dollars right and it will move further out of the

clinicals possibly to become ensure insurance covered right possibly

but you know these things take you know five to ten years yeah unless unless it's a coveted vaccine then it takes about 10 minutes [Laughter] um yeah it's interesting how approvals

change on things but the uh yeah i mean it could it very well it could be um is it serious pain uh yeah yeah

yeah it's rather serious uh you know i don't want to walk on it even you know minor surgeries whatever somebody else okay okay it's all pain yeah yeah i'm trying

to think what i would do in your shoes knowing that i'm a complete coward and you're hurting so i'm trying to empathize i've never had this exact thing obviously but um if i'm in that much pain sharon did do the stem cell thing and it did work but it was a much smaller situation than you've got

um so i i don't know

um if i woke up in your shoes

i probably would stop everything and come up with the 10 grand you would yeah oh yeah the only other thing that comes into my mind is it is more

than interesting to me that you are in that in and around that business and i wonder

if one of your

uh leaders with your current company

knows the leaders with the company that provide the other proceed provide the other stuff and can't get you some help on the pricing no i already went down that path i tried some other things that that my my boss knew about that were um in development and those those were pretty okay but you know they don't last yeah but i'm just saying the uh i guess the is

it the actual injection that is so expensive or just the procedure itself the the three shot injection no no no no the the stem cell the i think it's the

well as this is explained to me they take a sample out of my knee and then they grow it in a lab in boston and then they inject it back into my knee after it's grown and that all comes around ten thousand dollars yeah and i'm just saying the company that does all of that should have a friend working inside your company that's what i'm hoping and i'm just going to continue to poke around on that

because it's a ten thousand dollar discussion and if they knock half off or something because you you push around tried to find one degree of separation here one of your bosses knows one of the bosses over there probably yeah that's what i'm saying and just go hey do my guy do my guy a favor here man and um take care of my guy in the worst case scenario i've made those phone calls for people here not not medical calls

but in other situations where i go hey man you got that over there would you take care of my dude yeah i'll take care of him then i owe you one right and that's uh uh if i could figure that out it would help speed this up the cheaper this gets the faster i would do it you know and so the the uh um but yeah i'm taking care of your knee man

i mean you need to get this done and um i don't like the 70 probability but the rest of it i'm gonna i'm gonna give it a try if i'm in your shot in your situation what do you think no i'm saying the same thing dave and even right now you had a knee done never never yeah never but uh

i imagine hogan has i'm pretty sure he has especially playing football and stuff like that yeah yeah but while he's looking at that i'm i'm starting to save for the worst case scenario if i got to pay the full ten thousand dollars yeah i'm gonna build the ten as fast as i can during that time i'm gonna work every phone and every connection i can to try to get a better deal yeah uh which gets

the procedure done that much quicker quicker yeah that's that's interesting very interesting discussion sorry are you going through that man yeah really that's just open phones at triple eight eight two five five

misty uh i'm sorry brandon

says i just started following your baby steps the largest debt i have is my student loan is a hundred thousand dollars should i move this to baby step six since i do not have a home no no what what huh i'm confused

uh if you say student loans right yeah no i'm sorry that threw me why would you ask well because it's a huge loan it's sometimes bigger than a house loan and so some people often ask us you know i want to move it to baby step six just because it's big no no it's it's baby step two you guys yeah well you're not getting rid of sally mae even if she's a big yes big sally may yes she's a big

the only way it's going to go away is if you attack it not if you put it off right and so um we don't move the babe we don't move the student loans to another baby step because of that it's i've had calls where people said i got 200 000 student loans i owe 60 000 on my house

you know and they want to move it and i'm just like no still don't do it you still got to attack it and get rid of it yep that's the thing fine stuff good hour anthony yes

thanks james childs and kelly in the booth i'm dave ramsey your host this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today thank you for joining us america we're so glad you're here the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's

triple eight eight two five five two two five

sarah is with us in lexington kentucky

hi sarah welcome to the day to the ramsey show how can we help hi dave and anthony i have a little question i'm dead mainly my husband are debt-free we've been debt-free for three years i took a traumatic fall in 2019 and broke my humors down the flight of stairs and damaged my knee i've had one knee surgery and i'm getting ready to have another one the my husband's gone four nights a week

and i don't sleep those four nights because all my bedrooms are upstairs so we're kind of like in a dilemma and he didn't even want to be on dave ramsey nine years ago but now he's turned into a frugal i think we should sell the house since we have no bedrooms downstairs and buy another house in the next over subdivision our house will price at 159 and it's about

the highest one in the on the two streets and we could add on to it for like 30 000 but then i don't think we could ever get our money back out of it the houses in the next subdivision are running about 179

but we'll probably only clear like 145

on our house now i have we have 550 000 in 401k

and we have our emergency fund and we have 16 thousand dollars because i've been trying to save to you know put on another house

sixteen thousand that we could put on the house but we'll still be a little bit short what'd you say your household income is our household income during the debt free was eighty-four but since i failed it's down to 65 because in the last two since 2019 i've only worked like four months each year because i failed and they tried to naturally heal then they did surgery the next year then now i've had the knee surgery i'm gonna have to have another one so i'm only working part-time okay

and so you're talking about a a one-level house i'm talking about a one-level house and i need to stay in my area because i'm like the provider for my mother who has cancer so i need to stay within like a five mile radius because you know i'm over there every day so i you know i probably could find something cheaper farther away but then when she calls me

the other night you know it's going to take me longer to get to her yeah like if you move ten miles away it would take you five minutes more more yeah well

she's kind of panicky on that stuff honestly the house is well she gets panicky i get panicky you're going back into debt too yeah well i think we could have it

paid off in a year well then save it up yeah

and just sleep on the couch for the next year because i don't sleep upstairs when he's not there i i literally i what happened once i got up in the middle of the night i made the wrong turn i was disoriented and i went down the plot of stairs and i know that that's emotional i'm not i'm not judging your psychological that's not always yeah i'm saying what would i do if i were your husband if i were you

in this situation i completely agree

with your desire to move yes and get into a one level i've got no issue with that if you're within one year of doing that with cash then do it with cash or move five minutes further away and do it with cash and deal with a ten minute drive to mama instead of a five-minute drive absolutely okay now the other thing is they make those stair climber things that

you sit in they're fifteen thousand but i don't think you ever get our money back out of that no yeah sarah don't do it i mean i i think you're trying to come up with all kind of excuses listen to what dave said you're able to climb the stairs yeah you just don't want to right well yeah i mean i'm able but you know i've i've never had one knee surgery

you know it's like i'm not arguing with you you know and let me just tell you how weird i am okay uh if it's this important to you i i would move the living room furniture into the garage and move the bedroom into your living room i'm so serious well we are from kentucky

well i'm from tennessee so i think we got this figured out we got to figure it out it's just for a short time and if it's that big a deal for you to get something that's comfortable i might rearrange something there yeah on that first level seriously i'd consider that as a temporary measure it's not it's not a five-year thing it's like we're gonna go camping for four months

and five months until we get this money saved up but i think you can do this with cash if you're careful or if you'll just make slightly different decisions sarah would you what you really want to do is when you're facing something like this and you've got several very valid things a 101 bedroom

i mean i want a one level i and it's a

reasonable request don't you think absolutely then but don't put so many

other constraints on it that you can't make your solution true yes like i have to be five minutes from mom instead of ten minutes from mom oh no see now that one's silly yeah that one's silly she could be 15 minutes away yeah and and still and go move today right or sleep in the living room for a year yep uh or move your bedroom to the living room for a year um or go into debt

and pay it off in a year but i i i don't think that's the way i would do that in this situation me i'm telling my wife we're going to move away 15 minutes so we can give you what you want right now i'll tell you what the other thing you could do uh you could sell the house today absolutely rent it and rent a one bedroom yep for a year

yep yeah that's even a better plan

except for the move two times part which i'd rather have a root canal but the because the move two times things awful but uh but yeah that that solves the problem very uh except for the two moves yeah but they don't have to move in one year dave they can stay there for you know two three years and pile up a bunch of cash exactly even better one day exactly that one level

i keep doing one bedroom one level one level one level yeah it could be a one level one bedroom you know no i mean well for rent for rent yeah just go that's that might be your answer i like that answer dave and uh you can move just about anywhere if you're renting for a short period of time and she can save within five minutes yeah yeah that might work that might work that's

another idea but i think you're so close if it was going to be five years to solve the problem i might solve it differently yes but because it's one year to solve the problem i'm going to figure out a way to push through that right and avoid the debt your husband doesn't want to go back into his house and everything's paid off i can empathize with that yeah

and also empathize with you hurting and you don't want to make you know you don't want to make a wrong turn in the middle of the night and start this pro healing process over again i have no issue with that at all either hey folks how do money conversations go with your spouse do they end in a battle or are they not happening at all guys you can get on

the same page with money it starts with both of you committing to a budget every month with a membership to ramsey plus you and your spouse get our premium budgeting tool every dollar connects to your bank and both your phones so everybody knows what's going on everybody's on the same page we're working and making changes together and uh with access ramsey

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to 33 789 and you can get a free trial ramsey plus it includes financial peace university the baby steps tracker and of course the premium version of every dollar lots of other goodies in there as well smart tax is free right now get your taxes done free yeah wow

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anthony o'neill ramsey personality is my co-host today our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100

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get the best possible deal today's question comes from terry in louisiana she says my father recently passed away and my mother received 320 000 in life insurance

she is debt free and says she doesn't need the money since she has enough assets to live a comfortable life i have a hundred and twenty thousand 000 in student loans that that she wants to pay off for me because she feels like this is what my dad would want i want i have started following your baby steps and have been gazelle intense for the last six months attacking my debt this would get me very close to being debt free i want to honor my father and never be in debt i am feeling torn about

this do i accept the gift yes

i really do i mean i i would definitely have a conversation with mom and make sure she doesn't feel that you're trying to force her into it uh but i agree if it was my daughter um

and i passed away and left this i would definitely want the money to help my family proceed forward in life and paying off the debt will be a good steward in my opinion of that as long as your mom is taken care of yeah that's what i'm

concerned about the reason i'm concerned about it is you didn't tell us that she had how much money she's got you just said she has enough to live a comfortable life right and um some moms a comfortable

life is a can of soup a day that's good if her daughter gets all the money and she barely makes it by because she's broke yeah good point and she calls that a comfortable life but she took care of her daughter yeah uh so i don't know what a comfortable life in air quotes means if it means she's got a

million dollars in a 401k and this is an extra 320 on top of that i'll go with that yeah if it means she can live off of her social security and be struggling no at 1200 bucks a month right and calls that comfortable so you can have this money yeah and wrong answer right no so i i

i need a better definition of comfortable life but uh if she if she you know

has enough assets to live account so she has some assets so it's not social security but you know what is it what's really there that's what i want to know yeah i agree and uh but you know the more money mom has the more i go with your answer yes yeah i would definitely accept it now the other piece of this is you cannot give someone

that much money without a gift tax being

imposed unless you do it properly

and so you need to see your mom needs to

see a tax attorney or a tax professional to help

her file what's called the unified estate

tax credit exemption

and she needs to use up some of her estate to avoid paying taxes on this because if she gives you more than fifteen thousand dollars she's

going to be taxed at 55 percent and so

do not just write somebody a check in your family for 120 000 the irs comes in and audits you you're going to get hammered and so you need to have some professional tax guidance and it's a very simple form and it's called the unified estate tax credit and you need to do that to avoid the gift tax if you guys go forward with this and we only go forward with this if mom's definition of comfortable is really comfortable yeah

really really really comfortable yeah tracy is in tacoma washington hi tracy welcome to the ramsay show hi dave long time listener and fan thanks for my call for taking my call sure how can we help alrighty so my husband and i owe 160 000 on our house and we currently have a hundred thousand dollars cash so we thought about refinancing but our previous loan person said it's best to do a credit union loan as rates would be lower

and you don't have to pay closing there will only be like a 60 000 loan they're right so i was wondering what you would do they gave me like a ton of different options it's pretty overwhelming and just as a side note my husband has ms so we have you know our six month fund and everything like that so we're just trying to get our monthly payments as low as possible in case something was to happen with his diagnosis your husband has what uh multiple sclerosis oh oh ms okay yes

i didn't hear you how

long has he had that um about a year okay all right and what's your household income um well it's about 55 000

after taxes my husband where did the hundred thousand come from um just random family gifts and then we saved uh a lot you've done well done very well and you're 100 debt free except your home correct your loan officer is giving you excellent advice absolutely okay good let me walk you through a couple of things to watch for okay when a credit union or a local bank makes a loan like

this it's a loan they are going to keep at the bank they're not making it by underwriting guidelines of fannie mae or fha it's called a portfolio loan they're going to keep it in their portfolio okay so it's kind of like a home equity loan in a sense they're going to keep it there they're going to keep it there at the bank okay so as long as

you know that then that what that tells you is that whatever rules they want to make up

they can do so this idea that somehow

they have to conform to some other guidelines is a bunch of crap and so here's what you are going to make them do what's this house worth um it's worth 325. okay so a 60 000

loan on a 325 000 house is what's known

as a no freaking brainer right unless you've got horrible credit or you're in bankruptcy okay so what you are going to demand is three things okay one is no closing costs

of any kind under any circumstances

okay they need to put they need to do this to get this loan two is a fixed rate

okay and three is

a fixed term

uh do you want a 10-year or a 15-year probably a 10 will be fine in this case

but you do not get a traditional home equity loan where the rate floats and thereby the length of time that

you're in the loan floats and some of those even have balloons or calls after three years or five years okay you don't want any of that you want a 10-year loan that pays off

in 10 years that's called a fully amortizing loan at a set rate with no closing costs

there is a local bank or credit union that will be happy to make you that loan okay cool

you're going to have to push back though because they don't always use their brains at the bank you know that i do i'm a mom so i'm used to push back so i think i'll say okay they're going to go now you need to get a home equity loan and this is our home equity loan product and i'm going i don't care what your home equity loan product is

if you want this loan it's going to be these three things okay perfect well thank you so much steve thank you so much anthony you guys have a great day you too you too great job by that loan officer telling him that's a good loan officer told him not to make a loan with him dave i was shocked that's good that's good integrity i like that because it's a 60 000 home loan with a

traditional mortgage is super expensive right and the mortgage companies don't want to screw with it and they they're going to run the rate up number one if they do screw with it because they're so small and they're probably going to hit you with a bunch of extra side fees uh that don't need to happen so when you're making a ver a small loan like that under 75 000

uh especially where there's a bunch of equity yeah always go to your local credit union always go to your local bank and always remember those three things i told you no closing costs fixed rate fully amortizing fixed term i've seen some credit unions dave do it uh below a hundred thousand oh they will they'll do it alone yeah yeah they'll do it they'll do a loan over over over 75 000 but when you get 75 000

and under a traditional fha or fannie mae loan becomes unwieldy it's very expensive got you and most of the most of the mortgage companies don't want to screw with that yeah but the credit unions will and the you know local bank will especially in a situation like this so very very well done good good job of that loan officer that's good stuff this is the ramsey show

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my

co-host number one best-selling author the phone number here at the ramsey show is triple eight eight two five five two

kevin is with us in san diego hi kevin how are you good dave how are you better than i deserve how can we help so i anyways i appreciate you guys for taking my call um a little back story i just recently separated from the military i did about 10 years currently i'm a full-time student utilizing the post-911 gi bill

i also just recently took a government contracting position full time in san diego which pays about 60 000

annually good my wife is a uh registered

nurse but uh we just had a baby back in january so she's a stay-at-home mom for now anyways um

my question is regarding uh equity in our mortgage uh we owe about 300 000 uh

and our house is currently worth about 450. uh my wife and i are almost debt-free

we've paid off almost 60 thousand dollars of debt but my question is would it be smart to take out about 20 or 30 000 in equity out of our mortgage to pay off the rest of the debt and possibly upgrade some things in the home no

it wouldn't be that's not a wise move at all um again and you set the numbers i don't miss your hearing correctly what's your household income right now 60 60 all together okay cool and you said you have about twenty thousand dollars in debt

uh about yeah about that yeah yeah

yeah i'm not touching the home loan i'm not the home law i'm not touching equity at all what i'm doing is i'm trying to come up with a game plan and knock out this 20 000 cash so kevin thank you for your service

um your wife is at home with a new baby and she's standing around inside that house looking and seeing everything that needs to be fixed and that's what started that's what started this conversation it did i came home to a list of things

like

i was afraid i read that right oh my

gosh and so uh yeah the answer is no babe

when you are able to get back to work we'll be able to do these this list of things after we've gotten out of debt and have our emergency fund in place yeah so uh you cannot borrow your way

into abundance yeah i i understand

um i do receive a housing allowance through the 911 the post-911 gi bill you get that whether you do these repairs or not

yeah so instead of taking out would it

be smart just to use that money now it'd be smart to use that money to get out of debt like every other piece of money you've got yeah because you're in baby step two and you're knocking the debt out you got a brand new baby we're trying to get out of debt how much is your housing allowance kevin

um the housing allowance is about three thousand dollars but you get that no matter what you you can do with it what you want to do with it come on man so now we're at 78.

that's what i'm saying in household income right yeah now you're out of nowhere i'm sorry 36 did you say three thousand three thousand dollars a month right kevin yeah three thousand uh of

housing allowance oh i'm sorry now we're at 96 000 household income now we're out of debt in five months yeah and then you save up and do the repairs what's the uh what's the cost on the repairs going to be

um

rough numbers probably around ten thousand dollars okay so here's the thing you have a ninety six thousand 000 income you need 30 000 you should be done with both of these in one year without borrowing a dime okay

okay so um now

what we've got to do is walk through hit this what happens is uh the p that

very few people uh look at

a situation like this and and and they're really doing a bunch of math and they're really thinking about how it's going to turn out 15 years from now they're more thinking about the here and now yes and that's what drives you to ask a question like do i borrow money to fix up a house while i'm still in debt right and answer to all of it of course is no and the reason we answered the question we did is what helps kevin and his wife and new baby be in the best place

10 years from today not 10 days from

today not 10 months from today 10 years from today what is best for you and your family what is going to put you in the most money situation and that is to have avoided the debt and paid cash for the repairs and have paid off your existing debts yes and that's going to continue to free money up and continue to give you options and continue to do

these things and it's just a normal thing for her to be sitting at home you know she's you know she's dealing with a human that can't talk back to her all day and so um that is highly needy

and uh and so it's in human nature to walk around and go well we need to paint that we need to fix that and didn't even notice it before come on now and that's just normal there's nothing wrong she didn't do anything wrong but that's shorter term thinking and we need to think what's best for this child long term 10 years 20 years out yes sir yes and if you put it through that paradigm that's how anthony's quick answer as soon as you ask a question was no no with no explanation

zero not a chance no no

all right elise is with us in buffalo

new york hi elise how are you better than i deserve how are y'all just the same how can i help yes so um

my question is me and my husband are on baby step two right now and um we're looking uh to be

finished in october and then you know we'll do baby step three and then we'll start interviewing some smartvestor pros and i've read like um chris hogan's retirement inspired and everyday millionaire both um awesome books but one of the things i guess i'm thinking is kind of for us like

let's if we're about 25 and so we're wanting to

like learn from our smart investor pro but i mean wouldn't if we're the type of people who like we're not gonna pull out you know our money from retirement it's just gonna sit there from like you know 25 to 65 or 70.

would we need to have a smart investor pro for like more than a year or two if they're just going to be like teaching us i don't know like how to do investing then we'll be able to learn from them and kind of like take it from there yeah well you're not paying them a monthly fee anyway or even a flat fee per year to do your financial planning or something you're you're basically taking care of your financial planning needs

the smartvestor pros in your corner to help you make a purchase were you to do an investment if you needed to if you need to do rollover because one of you changed jobs or something like that or for advice and on a particular

situation something comes up and you go hey what about this and so i uh as an example like you say

i'm kind of in the rhythm of steadily investing and i don't have i don't have some kind of big meeting with them uh every three weeks or something if i need something i call my guy and i say hey or i sent him an email i said listen this is what i'm thinking got any ideas and he'll send me back a few ideas and maybe a few things to purchase that would do that

and then we'll execute that purchase or we won't you know i do my backdoor roth iras i just finished them up the other day for this year and um

you know so i have contact with them during that time but i don't sit and go over my statements with them every year they're not that complicated you know you can if you've got questions but the main thing a smartvestor pro does is they're just they're there and available and in your corner and you just need to kind of have these professionals at the um at the tip of your fingers at

the you know at the end of an email or the end of a phone call that a text that can get back to you and give you an answer that's good dave and you know what's so funny with my financial advisor i told him i was trying to build my dream home in the next three years and he's one who told me hey center for parking money in

the savings account this was two years ago he said start parking in the mutual fund then i heard you talk about it so financial advisors are just good people to go to to get advice for anything any situation yeah but you're not it's not like you're paying um a daycare to watch your kids or something right this or hiring a full-time governess for your children this is more like someone that gives

you parenting advice once a year that kind of a thing yeah so you're you're thinking about it correctly you've got the right mindset about it but they still need to be there available to you

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thank you for joining us america anthony o'neil is our co-host today ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book debt-free degree you want to go to college and not have any debt oh it can be done

you may not like all the choices some of them include hard work on your part but he will show you exactly how to do that with a debt free degree tony is in dallas hi tony

welcome to the ramsay show hi good afternoon dave financing uh thank you very much for taking my call sure what's up i do have a question

um regarding my mortgage and a situation i'm in i'm just thinking about kind of the future if i should save up to refinance or just sell the home currently on baby step number two and

expecting to hopefully pay that uh be out of debt for you by the end of this year but right now we're enough pause because we're expecting the baby boy uh in the late may good for you that's wonderful thank you thank you thank you and so right now the only thing is um our home we have a 30-year term fha loan

with even down payment assistance um and

so our payment is around 2200 with

income bringing in 5300 so that's our monthly income coming in uh so i know i when i first bought the home i wasn't into your apartment or anything like that a couple months later that's when i started hearing you and then i kind of made a oh situation i realized you know what i got to live and learn so now i'm trying to just find the best way of doing going about this mortgage

tony is that 5300 gross or net

uh that is gross oh so you're bringing

in about 4 400 net then no no no no no sorry

okay okay okay and you said your your house payment is how much again 22 200. so it's close to that i mean 50

almost but um we are expected an

income increase uh in august my

uh my wife is going to complete her teacher certification so we're going to see her income double what other debt do you have right now tony just fourteen thousand dollars of uh student loans so what is her income going to be then what is your total household in wait i'm sorry let me try this again what's your total household income going to be after she gets her certification so after that whenever she gets her teaching job which i think we're hoping for august i'm thinking in around 6 800 from 6 500 6800 just

defending the area where she works okay all right so that puts you at about 30 percent yes so a little high and what do you do for a living uh and i work in insurance in insurance

yes so uh how much do you project your income will go up over the next three years uh over the next three years hopefully yeah right now which is a good time i was thinking about getting a part-time job uh but right now since the storm's hit in texas i'll see they may pull me aside to do overtime and help out in the claims section of our company

so that's where i kind of what are you doing what do you do in the insurance world i'm actually a trainer so i train people how to oh okay so you're not you're not selling insurance so your income's not following a sales pattern okay so both of you are going to be getting plus or minus this overtime uh normal cost of living plus or minus

raises right yes yes okay so you're gonna be at 30 and dude you're going to have it tight for a couple years until it gets down to that 25 because your income continues to go up i don't think the house is going to kill you because her income is going to add to the thing right now um but

uh the the main point of the 25 is if you're going to be there for 10 years yeah you're going to struggle yeah if your house payments 50 of your take-home pay but it's not going to be but for a matter of months yeah i agree yeah that's what i was thinking as well i was just debating on that um i was like i know it's going to be tight enough for my life it's going to be tight a little bit yeah

and i get now with the 25 role of why it is yeah so you know because you're feeling you're feeling the pinch in your budget right now oh yeah yeah for sure let me ask you

this question when you have the baby is she coming home or is she still going to work well she's still going to work well good thing right now we kind of planned it this way okay she's having the baby late may okay so she's gonna have the whole summer off okay uh with the baby and then i do i get like six weeks paid time off so i'm gonna take

the first probably the whole month of august off while she goes back to work when the new school year uh oh that's good i'm dead that's good so yeah okay cool you got a plan so the point is it's not a forever thing it's for a for now thing and the other point is for our listeners we would not have signed you up for this trip but you're gonna be okay taking

it okay that makes sense yeah hey man thanks for the call open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five nathan's in houston hi nathan how can we help hey dave and anthony thank you for taking my call sure um i have a question

about when it's okay and how much to

possibly spend on upgrading my wife's wedding ring um i i've heard you talk about upgrading vehicles which are a little bit more practical um and depending on who you ask this might not might be practical

but um i so my wife and i are going to celebrate 15 years coming in april and uh we're we're four

baby step four five and six okay um and how much would you spend on the upgrade

that that's kind of what i was wondering um i was thinking maybe in the 20 to 25

thousand dollar range what you're in but

uh like 325 on average yeah and you're

going to pay cash flow upgrade oh for sure

let's just pose it another way okay you remember when they used to have these things called cruises that's right yeah back before the

pandemic i mean let's say that you for 15 years you wanted to spend 25 000 cash and go on a cruise a luxury luxury luxury around the world cruise or something and that was the way you were going to celebrate the 15th and you had the cash and you make 325 and you're on baby step four i would say do that okay yeah in other words if

you consumed the money and got nothing to show for it but a memory which is what travel is right right and then i would still say okay because you have the money as a ratio of your income so this is a consumption now what you don't want to do is call me up and tell me how diamonds are a good investment because that's a bunch of crap no

i i hear you talk about that often it was just it was one of those things that i'm having trouble with the with the amount so i was well if it was something else though my point is it's a ratio you can afford yeah

okay if you said if you told me that number and then you told me you make eighty thousand dollars i would be going uh that's a lot yeah sure no i understand that yeah no when we got married it was totally different well me too dude sharon's got a bad gum headlight on her finger but she started out with a .23 you can't even see the little speck

she started with not a headlight dave i like it my wife's rolling a very similar ring so yeah okay well thank you i appreciate it you've done well sir congratulations and the whole idea that you're actually asking the question yourself the question not to us but you're asking you're gauging it against something and anthony i think it's really important you've worked with lots of wealthy people and

so have i yeah that it's all about a ratio yes yeah and does it you know if you just put that amount of money in the middle of the table and burned it with a match does it ruin your life does it affect your life substantially that's the question to ask and uh if it doesn't then it's an okay consumption ratio if it does then you don't do

it absolutely and with that i mean he's been married for 15 years so i'm pretty sure his wife she's worth that investment yeah she earned it yeah she put up with him i didn't want to say she deserves it because i want her to be like i deserve it

she put up with him hey listen that's why sharon gets whatever sharon wants to say the same thing my wife can take take and deal with me for 15 years she deserves a lot yes a lot

whoa whoa whoa dave whoa whoa whoa calm down we just gotta get you started we gotta get you started though whoa whoa dave i'm working on that

my gosh yeah i mean it's uh the but the

thing is it is it's always a good thing to give you pause and think about what you're going to consume yes giving you don't have to think quite as much about because you can't really mess generosity up you want to be wise with it yes but um you know investing you know

how much can can you invest too much yeah no you really can't you know but you don't have to think about the amount as much but when you're consuming it using it for personal gain personal enjoyment then you have to need to think about it and that's a good spiritual exercise love it very well done very well done

that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author of debt free degree is my co-host

today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five so coming into uh the

opener anthony and i were having an off-air discussion that i think we probably need to bring up for everyone else it's a good uh i i didn't realize it james my producer had sent me an article from forbes i was reading at the break at the top of the hour and um that that

biden had said uh president biden had said in a town hall earlier in the week that he will not forgive student loan debt with an executive order he doesn't think that that is constitutional and correct a little bit shocking very i'm i'm personally happy to hear that yeah um but that means it puts it on congress to pass and uh and he said he won't support the fifty thousand dollar forgiveness only the ten thousand dollar version but the 50 000 aoc and elizabeth warren are asking for it's a 650 billion dollar

price tag now let's keep that in let's take this out right so there's 1.7 trillion yep instantly and that so that will leave about a trillion yes if you forgave 650 we

still have a crisis still have a crisis still have a problem and as i've said many times it is intellectually dishonest to forgive student loans while you're still making them if they're so bad and people are getting

destroyed by the student loans and we have to come to your rescue you poor little people and washington's gonna be there for you and we're gonna help you out yeah if that's the case then you need to stop making the loans stop doing that and then also too dave and this may sound selfish but i worked my behind off to pay off my student loans it may not have been a lot uh

but it was still ten thousand dollars so where's your money where's mine exactly you know i worked hard and it's not just me i'm pretty sure we have millions of people listening right now like hey i paid off twenty five thousand a hundred thousand you know where's my money so you know this is interesting we already know the republican party is not going they will not forgive

the loans and then there are some democrats who are like i don't know neither yeah cause they're gonna have people like you they're going uh hello exactly i'm gonna be mad at you because i want my money back exactly you know you know and so yeah i think the um i don't know if they got the votes to do it in congress i i don't you know what

this may be a political move on president biden's part oh because if he does it he takes all the heat yeah if he puts it off on congress and then they don't do it or they do do it they get the heat yep and it's not on him they get the heat from the left if they don't do it they get the heat from the everybody that paid off their loans

and want my money back if they do do it and so yeah that's what that's maybe political cover that might be real good strategy on his part because if it does go through then he can say he has something to do with it yeah but he didn't feel like it was constitutional to do it with an executive order right and i'm i i was shocked though dave

when he came back and said that i'm not going to do 50 000 yeah i i was shot

when i read the article i said oh oh okay so right yeah all right so aoc

is not in the white house after all you know that's what it comes down to wow very interesting very very interesting it's not it's not just political it is financial it is economic and there's an issue of uh you know you

have to if you're going to be sincere yeah and i don't disagree that student loans are a huge problem yeah yeah you and i are working diligently to help people with their student loans yeah and here's my thing if they're a huge problem quit making them and that's my thing before we talk about forgiving if that is a conversation let's start let's talk about how do we stop

it from even happening in the future yeah once we fix that problem moving forward then let's come up with a game plan of how we can help the ones who we've uh talked and talked them into doing something stupid but until then why because we'll be right back at 1.7 trillion if we forgive this amount within the next five to ten years well you're going well and you're going to do

it again exactly because you didn't you didn't fix the problem exactly you just you just treated the symptom yeah i don't know the symptom is a bunch of people up to their eyeballs and can't breathe the problem is making of student loan debt and it's out of control it's too high it's too much it's gone on too long right and it's just gotten to be where it's ridiculous yeah

and um but it's very interesting i

you know i know i'm really old at times

when i see things happen in our world that i never thought i would live to see dot dot dot happen it sounds like my grandpa you say i never thought i'd live to see the day that was gonna happen i'm that guy now i'm that guy going i never thought i'd live to see the day that they'd actually consider this crap you know that's what and they are really concerned very considerate

i mean i've said on this show it'll never happen right it just shows what i know nothing i don't know nothing nah dave but i mean really i never i never dreamed that the political climate would get so far left and so far towards socialism the government providing all your goodies that they would actually be seriously considering doing this and then it looked like it was a done deal right

and now it's not again right so it's very interesting right so the moral of the story folks is this anthony and i the ramsey personalities of the ramsey organization

have committed our lives to helping you

believe and understand

the truth about how life works

which will cause you based on those beliefs if you will act on those beliefs it will

lead you towards abundance yeah if you act on the beliefs that ken coleman teaches you about careers it's going to lead you into a better career if you act on the beliefs that john

dr john deloney shares you with you about mental health it will lead you to a more mentally healthy situation absolutely um which i'm really

enjoying his podcast oh yeah and if you believe these things it will

cause your actions to occur if you believe that the government is going to take care of you it causes you to not go

cause to take personal responsibility for your life which is a key yes for you to become a

to live abundantly absolutely to live in wealth yeah and to live a good life you have to take responsibility for your marriage no one's going to fix it for you you have to take responsibility for your freaking kids nobody's going to fix them for you yeah

you know god help the people that are in classrooms today because some of you are piss-poor parents and you send wild animals into these classrooms and expect these teachers to manage them i mean it's ridiculous dave's going in you know i mean because it but it's not bringing abundance right it's not it's not that and it's you know and you know

i was with a lady the other day that works with teachers she she uh is a friend of ours that is a world-class expert in the education

field and she was saying you know what helicopter parents are help parents who helicopter in to fix all their kids problems now they've gone beyond that they have lawnmower parents i didn't know what a lawnmower parent is a lawnmower parent cuts the grass out in front of the child so they have an easy path oh man that's different than hillary clinton they're cutting the grass ahead of them

so they don't even have to walk on tall grass i mean it's just out of control see this is none of this personal responsibility is going to lead you to the greatest dignity and the greatest abundance in your life don't wait on anyone else to fix your life yeah it's your job that's it dave

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uh [Music]

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here at ramsey solutions we want to transform so many lives that disruption spreads

like wildfire across this country

imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan because everyone's assuming the best way to get an education's pay for it imagine a world where the majority people pay cash for their cars where the credit card is the cigarette of the financial industry where you know how to handle marriage you know how to handle parenting you've got a career that has meaning

at ramsey solutions this is why we have a thousand people in our in our company

to create digital products and services

events and books to transform

your life this is the goal

we have to disrupt to do it at such a scale that we disrupt the toxic culture in america so many people have just completely lost their way if you want to join us on that crusade we're currently on the hunt for software engineers ruby on rails java c-sharp run in tech not tech if you're a ux designer an seo

content marketing specialist we'd love to talk to you we're on schedule to hire 360 people in the year 2021 and a lot of them in the digital space

if you're a senior level developer

we actually go home at night

we don't work you 80 hours you're

actually go home and be with your family and when you're writing code or you're showing somebody how to write code or you're writing a piece of content or you're doing a piece of creative it's always being used to change

someone's life it's work that matters if you want to find out about the jobs we've got available go to daveramsey.com click on dave's hiring on the right hand tab

and i will tell you it's very tough to get a job here sure is it's easier to get on with the freaking fbi because we don't want crazy people in this building we want people in this building that care deeply they're good at what they do that are hot people of high character high moral fiber because that's who i want to work beside every day i don't want to work besides sleazies and crazies yes in a lot of places you have to here you don't have to it's a group of very smart people of

high character that work their tail ends off and then they go home yeah and we don't work 80 hours a week facts we go home and so if you're interested in that the interview process is difficult i'll just tell you in advance it's um it's a guy sitting out here that just got hard starts monday he's moving stuff into his a third floor apartment we just met his buddies who moved him in that's good friends right

there move you into your third floor man and uh but he's just been through the interview process and he's just shaking his head like yeah that's enough already and you know what though dave i appreciate our interview process because it even helps me to know if if

this is a good fit you know so yeah i mean i was on a pod taping a podcast with a friend of mine a while ago and she said um you know you guys are freaky over there yes we are and she goes i mean like you know what how many times people just stand up and walk out of the interview and go peace out and i said oh they do sometimes oh yeah because we are freaky yeah i mean we don't we don't really want to work with crazy people no sir

you know i don't want the ladies in this place to be worried about sleazies sleazy guys you know it needs to be safe here and if you can't be that guy then you don't need to be in here right you know i'll just you know and it's easier to find that out during the interview than it is to make you move across the country and then i got to fire your butt because you're sleazy right you know don't do that and and so

yeah it's it's a lot it it is it's actually protecting the person because you know there was a point in my life before i met christ years ago as an adult that if i had interviewed at a place like this i would have been going you people are nutty i'm not working there and i would have walked out the door oh yeah and i would because i would not have been a fit

and that's interesting i could not have gotten a job at 22 in this place [Laughter] i'm not sure i could have gotten a job in this place ever but it's a good thing i own it but yeah it's tough to get on but i mean if you're interested guys and you want to do something that matters just check dave's hiring we're hiring positions of all kinds yeah

but certainly tons and tons of digital and creative uh positions click dave's hiring at daveramsey.com all right janice is with us in colorado springs hi janice welcome to the ramsay show hi hi

guys thanks for taking my call sure um

i have just my house

and i just refinanced it uh for a 15-year loan good i want to pay extra on it is it best to pay the extra along with when i pay the

regular mortgage or to pay it like every

like two weeks later yeah do you do it online on their site yes do they have a blank on the site

that says principal only additional principle yes then it doesn't matter when you do it right

because it will get credited correctly because a computer is doing it yeah in the old days in the old days we

used to tell you when you would mail a check you remember are you old enough to remember mailing a check through the mail oh yeah mail a check through the mail for your house payment if you were going to add a check for uh if you were going to add to that amount for extra principal reduction for paying off your house faster we would tell you to send a separate check in a separate envelope

because the character opening it might not be smart enough to figure it out but the good news is the computer is smart enough to figure it out and if it says extra principle online or

additional principle or whatever and you put it in that blank it's going to go to principle they really that's not a hard piece of programming for them to do they did that right i promise you well what my my thing is is does it

change if i just make the house payment and then two weeks later make an additional payment does that drop the interest rate or the um yeah the interest once a month

down once a month whatever you do in that

month is going to affect the next month

so if you do if you do 10 extra payments in a month it's only going to affect the next month if you do one extra payment in a month equal to those 10 then it's going to affect the interest rate the next month exactly the same it's not calculated daily it's calculated monthly gotcha okay yeah i unfortunately i

haven't really done any of your baby steps but like i said i've right now i only owe on my house

my credit i have one credit card and it's frozen because i froze it okay

um how much money do you have in the bank huh how much money do you have in the bank before you start paying this these extra money ten thousand just a little over ten thousand dollars in my savings i have a little over i think it's 75 000

in my roth

uh 401k how old are you

63. good for you what do you make

um right about 45 yeah

you've done very well very yeah and just continue to concentrate i'd raise that emergency fund up a little bit and i definitely want you to invest more aggressively not just pay extra on the house i want you to be continuing to add i want that 75 000 to go way up in the next few years okay yeah okay you've done really good you've done i mean she's done a lot with a single lady making 43. yeah yeah i was about to say the same thing wow this is i'm shocked

well that sounds bad yeah you're doing a great job i'm very proud of her yeah excellent job yeah yeah i mean she's been fighting a a tough battle probably there absolutely so okay here's the calculation here's the calculation uh let's pretend you had for

calculation purposes an easy number is three percent on your mortgage okay that's that's a a quarter of a percent a month divide three by 12. okay so how

much per month is your interest if you have 3 annually 3 divided by 12 is a quarter of a percent yes okay a month that is going to be calculated on how much principal you owe at the end of that month a quart

times .0025 yeah okay or however many zero zero and

so if you've reduced the principal that next month more of your payment is going to go to principal and less to interest because your interest will be less that following month with a traditional fha va or conventional mortgage that's how it'll work

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today robin is with us in colorado springs hi robin how can we help hi anthony and dave i'm calling on behalf of my elderly parents who are in a financial pickle and need help on how to advise them they

have a three hundred and twenty thousand dollar paid for home but no savings and no retirement um

ninety eight thousand dollar heloc eleven thousand in credit card debt and their monthly income is about four thousand uh expenses are about thirty two hundred so my father wants to get a hundred and twenty five thousand dollar mortgage to pay off all of his debts and i know

that's not what you would advise dave so how can i help them

how old are they early 80s

how's their health it's good

my father works a part-time job and earns about 1100 a month doing that in addition to the four or the four is the total the four is the total okay

well it's likely that um you don't need

a hundred and twenty thousand dollar mortgage it looks like it's a hundred and nine well yeah yeah that was 109 isn't it

yes so why the other 11 uh

i'm not sure probably just a psychological cushion of some kind and what would it i

would guess his payment would be less on that if he did that than the current

yes uh monthly right now they're paying only on the interest on the heloc and it's about 325.

oh so it would the payment would go up then well right yes so i'm not even sure if

they could afford the payment so why does he want the payment to go up well that's a good question i don't know

that he's thought about that

all right um i

this is your dad and your mom yes it's not mine um but mathematically

from a an actuarial table which is what a life insurance company uses to rate probability of someone passing away

mathematically really what we want to do here is put something in place that they can hang on right it's not like we're going to turn the corner on this and they're going to move into prosperity it's just to keep them from having to move out of their house right yes so i guess the question is what gives them the most room in their budget

and keeps them from having to move out of their house is it remaining where we are or is it um getting a hundred and

ten thousand dollar mortgage no we're not going to borrow more and um so uh but but

i

you know you can run the numbers both ways but i bet that heloc is going to be cheaper monthly yeah you're not making any progress but i'm not really trying to make progress at this stage of the game right yeah i'm really just trying to let

them stay in their home okay from an emotional standpoint

because they you know anything we do that makes it harder for them to stay in the home seems kind of wrong doesn't it yeah

and it's all about cash flow at this stage of the game so i'm probably that heloc may have a

variable rate and it may have a call on it and that could be dangerous if it has like a three-year call and suddenly the mortgage company decides they want all their money right that might put him in a pinch he might be thinking about that call that balloon payment that's coming up on that thing or he may be concerned interest rates will go up in price him out of

the market so i guess i would dig into it and go okay if we get a mortgage exactly what is the payment going to be if we don't get a mortgage what's the payment going to be that's number one because i want to minimize the payment which is weird for dave ramsey to say because the goal here is not really to get it paid off the goal here is let them stay in their home yeah

because in five years statistically

you know we're not going to be dealing with this right right that was cold i'm sorry but i understand but it's just a math thing it's not just a math thing it's anything but just a math thing but i'm trying to think mom and dad i want them to enjoy the last five to ten years or whatever it is

by not having to move them i mean if we were trying to prosper we would move down into a house and pay cash for it

if we were trying to prosper right yeah but this is just protecting their their standard of living and letting them stay there and pay the minimum payment i don't know anthony thoughts nah dave i'm right there with you i'll tell you the use this credit card's bothering me they got to cut those things up and that means they're not on a budget yeah and they haven't stopped the bleeding that's exactly right yeah and he he's

and then he's trying to borrow his way out of debt and that also indicates he's not stopped the bleeding and so we do need to get if we're going

to go with my plan it really is not a good plan if they're going to continue to dig the hole

yeah because if he goes and gets a hundred and ten thousand dollar mortgage hundred twenty thousand mortgage and they don't contin they don't quit overspending they're gonna be right back here in three years two years that's exactly right and i've i've tried to tell him that but it's it's uh hard to get that problem so you know the the the biggest

thing is you have to stop the the the the overspending spin you you have to if 4k is 4k is 4k you're not in congress

you need to live on 4k

including these payments and cut the credit cards up and never use them again and get debit cards and live on a written budget with your spouse and otherwise dad you need to sell the house and you move down in house and that might be the cattle prod statement like you know like if you're not going to quit over spending you're going to lose the house

but you know because you know they're not i don't know how how long ago how long over what period time you think they ran up that 11k oh goodness uh probably just a few months they got this heloc uh not

not more than maybe two years ago

okay he cannot go get a new mortgage yeah even if it's cheaper because it's a pattern of him trying to borrow his way out they keep overspending and then they go get another loan they overspend then they go get another loan and then we should actually go get another loan we go get another loan we go get another loan they have to stop the overspending so i would say don't get a mortgage because it's the continuation of his negative pattern here yeah okay i have i honestly have no idea

where all that money went yeah well they they're probably spending six thousand bucks a month

yeah and so now the next question is

relationally how are you going to get your uh foot this far in the door to have these

right because you're going to have to sit down and do a budget with them if you're going to help them fix this and you're going to point out to your mom or whoever it is that can't stay out of freaking target that this has got to stop yeah you you've got the right person pointed out there oh and dad's trying to dad's trying to take care of her dad's a band-aid yeah he's an enabler

right okay well i think it'd be a great thing if if you guys can get create a conversation where there's a budget and you're walking them through uh putting the budget together with both of them sitting there and let her have the revelation that she's getting ready to cause them to lose their home if she doesn't stop this crap but that doesn't come from you making that statement it comes from you continuing to ask questions like mama if you continue to do this how do you think this is going to end

okay if you don't stay on this budget mom do you realize that you're you're going to that we're going to run out of money can you see that and let her see the actual numbers people can feel numbers when they're sitting and looking at them in relation to what they're doing but when she's just like over there you know being her four-year-old self at target then that that's it's not in context

but when you put it in context with the rest of the situation it gives you a jolt does that make sense yes it does and so but again that's not with you coming in there and shaming them it's more you asking a bunch of questions and put a bunch of facts in front of them and the facts will smack them upside the head that's a counseling technique let the facts do the hard work the emotional work on these on them it's

very difficult conversation either 80 year old parents it's very hard but it to the extent you can get involved as to the extent this is going to get fixed it's going to get ugly if it doesn't get fixed wow

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our scripture of the day first corinthians 9 24

do you not know that in a race all the runners run but only one receives the prize so run

that you may obtain it teddy rose teddy

roosevelt said it is hard to fail but it is worse

never to have tried to succeed

[Music] ronald is with us in new york city hi ronald how are you hey dave anthony thank you so much for taking my call sure how can we help

um me and my wife are currently face uh

tackling death we're in baby step two and we have a few expenses big expenses coming up in the next few months i graduated this past may with degree accounting and i started my salary 70 000. and my wife and i

got married this past august and we're expecting a baby in the next four months yay congrats a lot going on man

and the other other expense another thing is uh we don't own a car we live in new york city we always went through a train so once we have before the baby arrives we're looking to get a car so i'm struggling to um

you have any money so i have 18 000

saved up oh that's good i have forty two thousand student loans i start with forty two thousand i have thirty one thousand and my wife uh doesn't have any student loans fully she has full scholarship and she's currently in school she doesn't work so i'm the only one working currently

so i don't know how much to save

like how does it work how much the tax of the debt how much do one save up i'm sorry how much debt did you say you had currently 31 000.

and you have 18 000 cash you have no car

because you've been using public transportation and now with a baby you don't want to yeah so when i needed a call my parents lived 30 minutes away by public transportation so i would take their car okay so what um help me with your lifestyle situation on when you would actually utilize the car how much would it be used so since i'm working from home and

it won't be used as much i mean it would

mainly be used when you had the baby in the car correct and where would you be taking said baby [Laughter] either to the doctors or i've been told by three friends that you've been going to the doctors a few times and also usually we go out for the weekend by family so it might be driven five times a month yeah grocery shopping i'll use it at night at night i'll be using it more yeah but you don't have to have it for that you were going at nights to go

on public transportation if it's you that's right so the actual need for the car is about

five trips a month

correct around that i don't know yeah because of the baby correct yeah otherwise you were doing fine without it because most lots of people in new york city do not own cars it's not that unusual at all i know several people don't even have driver's license that live there so um uh yeah so you know what i'm gonna

buy is a minimal car that's going to start when i need to start but it doesn't really need to be that much about 5 000 bucks absolutely and 5 000 is generous i was

going to say about 3 500.

and then when baby comes you need to get the rest of that money towards the debt and let's get this debt cleared up yeah so what's the uh recommended amount that

you guys say when it comes to when you're expecting a baby to save up all you can yeah all you can yeah and so

but you're you're in an unusual situation part of you having a baby is you need this car yes

and so yeah i would take five of the 18 and or less and buy a car uh a reliable

um minivan or a four-door car of some

kind whatever you want to get and uh you can get a lot of car for five thousand if you'll shop carefully uh where are you gonna park this thing

so i don't really live in new york city i live in brooklyn okay so it's much more easier compared to new york city yes yes that's gonna because i mean a stinking parking spot in the city can in manhattan can be more than an apartment yes okay that's good so five thousand

dollars man that that's your that's your max yeah okay what the if you spend more than that let me tell you what you did you used your baby as an excuse to buy a car you wanted yes

because your need for this car is five trips a month that's your actual need

and i really think about this 15 18 000 for a car until me and my wife decided after listening to we just started listening to you to go towards you right correct

okay after the baby comes yes so i buy a

car for five 000 i'd leave the 13 sitting there i'd pile up as much as i can pile up on top of that and then when baby comes i would take it down to a thousand bucks and start your baby steps and attack that debt and then let's get the rest of that 30 000 bucks there'll be about 15 at that point cleaned off and uh as fast as

you can get it cleaned off and then once that's cleaned off you build your emergency fund you're working your baby steps but yeah i get the car i get the car purchase and i'm not you know but just don't use this as an excuse to buy an 18 000 car which is what you were about to do you said earlier and then you stumbled into the youtube or or podcast world or something

and and we

interrupted your plan so it is a different um

uh world where there's that kind of public transportation and where it's quite the norm yes it is uh versus most major cities in america you wouldn't even be having this conversation yeah you would need a car but new york yeah yeah but uh but that's uh

very interesting eighteen thousand dollars at his age i'm i'm pleased with him brittany's in houston hi brittany how can we help hi david anthony thank you guys for taking my call sure um my husband and i have a fully

funded six month emergency fund and we have no debts except for our mortgage which we still owe 86 000 on okay um we are

saving 15 of our income to retirement

and right now we're working on paying our house off early okay um i was actually just offered a new job in a new city that's out of state but it's a temporary position that the fellowship so it's two to three years and so we only plan on renting while we're there not buying a house or anything um we really don't know where we'll end up after that two to three year period

and so my question is whether really what we should do with our current house whether we should keep it and rent it out which based off of comps in the area would be about 1800 a month or if we should sell it and pocket the money and uh you know invest that what's your fellowship it's in uh molecular virology so one

more time um uh virology so i study viruses

okay all right and so obviously you're a medical doctor yeah i'm phd

okay so you're doing research it's research fellowship okay good good for you and there's no for sure chance you're coming back to your current state no not a chance yeah not when she finishes that you're going to be super valuable um

i think you need to concentrate 100 on the fellowship not on being a landlord yeah okay i think your

your focus should be singular uh this is

an important opportunity for you it's beyond important and it's a beyond it's actually quite an honor as well yeah it's you obviously have an incredible intellect and uh so yeah i i don't want this distraction of some idiot changing his harley oil in your living room back in houston while you're on the other side of the country so uh trying to work on saving the world

yeah from viruses and um so

no i think we need you focusing on your fellowship all of us do absolutely i agree so yeah i i would

sell it if i were in your shoes you'll get a plenty nice house when you do make the final location that you're going to land in that's long-distance landlording bad plan i wouldn't do it not even considering it yeah not even good stuff but thank you for what you're doing though we absolutely we need we need more of you absolutely and good analysis on hey we're only going to be

there for a couple years so we're going to rent there that's a good that was a good decision already having already made that going in now would that will she be able to stay stable though when she finds that oh yeah yeah when she finishes that that's gonna just increase her value in the marketplace dramatically wow yeah

pretty impressive good stuff that puts this hour in the books thanks anthony o'neil james childs and kelly daniel in the booth i am dave ramsey we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there is ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 195. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsay show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today open phones at

triple eight eight two 8255225

if ken coleman's in the house that means you are more than free to bring your career questions your questions about job hunts your questions about landing in a position that you have passion for as well as

get paid well for and all that kind of stuff so ken's here to help and you see you got a good opinion on that stuff too dude i got an opinion about everything i know and i am an expert opinion yeah but we get calls on the kick home show about toxic culture what do i do i got a a jerk boss but i've got i'm paying off debt i mean dave gives a great experience with that no stop it not true

you know but so many people are going hey can i pay off debt and switch jobs can i can i change careers while in the baby steps so dave and i can take that on as well we can tag team yeah a lot of leadership junk out there as well that affects people's hey is this the right place i'm doing the right work maybe i'm in the wrong place

so there's a lot of stuff we can take on spousal hey my spouse is is stuck how do i encourage the spouse so a lot of questions we can answer uh money and job related doing that meaningful work we're all here for you yeah the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five and kelly has stepped

out in madison which is actually uh ken's assistant producer that's for phone screener so she actually knows how to uh screen calls for ken so she can actually answer the questions as well yeah she's heard them all kelly can answer all my questions is that the truth and if you don't believe me ask her so all right genevieve is with us to start this hour in los angeles hi genevieve how are you

i'm doing good i'm doing good so happy to be on the call with you guys you too what's up in your world all

right so we have a duplex um we bought it

about seven years ago and we owe about 287 on

it um i guess i should start by saying i'm on baby step two i have about 40 000 left to pay off in the combination of student loans and credit card debt that i refinanced and we've been aggressively paying it for the last two years about 60 000 has already been paid off and we were looking to refinance our

duplex for a lower rate and a lower payment and our loan officer just told us you know what have you thought about refinancing pulling the cash out and reinvesting it so i'm wondering if that's a good idea it has a positive cash flow right now and um that's kind of where i'm at i'm like do i continue paying off my debt or go ahead and reinvest no well let me

just tell you if you ask a loan officer if you should borrow more money that's like asking a dog if it's hungry

all right i had a pug dog and it would eat itself until it died if you didn't take the food away from it and that's a loan officer they will loan you money from from today on and they always have a good idea on how to raise their commission yeah so no yeah no you're not trying to get into debt darling you're trying to get out remember yeah yeah

and it's funny because we come from a family of entrepreneurs and investors and and i'm just like i want to be zero um but of course you know it's tempting temptation is like you know can we reinvest you know later on yeah well the question you have to ask yourself is what's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy is it borrowing more

money on the duplex and investing that or

is it getting out of debt and the actual data says it's getting out of debt

okay that's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy and so if we're going to get out of debt because it's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy then getting into more debt would be oxymoronic wouldn't it yes

okay yeah so what's your household income and how quick you're going to pay off this 40k with your cash flow oh within the year i like you that's

awesome i like you so just refinance that refinance that duplex put it on as short a term as you can put it on on as low an interest rate as you can put it on and let's get that duplex paid off now too boom just like that one more loan officer smack silly i've been doing this 30 years and it never gets old what is the score dave ramsey 1 million to 0 on that one uh

you know what dave seriously i want to ask you a psychology question there because what happens is she's she's doing the right thing she's working the baby steps paid off 60 000 40 to go within the year

they're debt-free living like nobody else and she calls the loan officer they do what they do not demonizing but they're doing what they're doing i will and i know you will and it changes the narrative so we have to switch the narrative back and go no i called to save money which is going to help me get out of debt faster because if i'm saving money on the current mortgage payment uh it means more money towards the debt snowball and that narrative just gets all jumbled in their minds yeah it is human nature

and it is really actually intelligent in a way to look for the easiest route

we want the easiest route right and you really should why would you take the hard route if there's an easy one i mean it's intelligent to do that yeah you want to take the easiest route but the in search of the easiest route we tend to it's all of us

tend to look for a pill if i could just

take that get out of debt pill i'd be out of debt i could take that lose weight pill i'd lose weight if i could take that uh make my marriage happy pill we don't want to do the stuff

uh you know no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness human nature is to look for the easiest route and that leads us if we're not careful over the precipice into the get-rich-quick mindset into the uh there's a shortcut right

everybody knows about but me that's right and i think i found it that's the truth there's not one yeah there's no shortcut to any place that's worth going and that's the trap dave the progress oh

progress is smart so the very thing that's not smart it's dumb to do that take on more debt it feels smart because it's progress it fee well it feels like it's a shorter

yes okay it's a shortener quicker oh that's an easier route yeah and um because oh look i feel better all that debt's gone i don't think about it and instead i gotta crunch and run run and grind through the rest of the year but then when it's gone it's really gone because see here's here's an interesting fact about the math on this you cannot borrow your way out of debt that is true let that one sink in yeah just get that'll get

you there in a minute if you keep digging you can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom and so you can move your debt to your home your duplex your you can move it around that's what debt consolidation does it allows you to feel like you did something but the debt is still there it just has a new name that's right it just moved

it it's all you did so please don't act like you invented fire okay you didn't do something that was really you that's the but that's the that's why i call it debt consolidation here's here's how we know that this is true 88 of people that take out a debt consolidation loan to end quotes air quotes pay off their debt which it wasn't paid off it was just moved 88 that's 9 out of 10 times

end up not changing their habits and running up new debt over there so they move the credit cards over onto the second mortgage and now they run up new credit cards because they don't change the habits 88 nine out of 10 times but it felt like

you were doing something oh yeah very smart this is a smart move i'm getting a lower interest rate i've got our interest rate really better off lower interest rate it's all about the interest rate it's not about the fact that i can't freaking stop my spending like i'm in congress and so and that's not genevieve this is just a thing this is the day we're this is the ramsey

show [Music]

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so

ken coleman ramsey personality is my

co-host here today on the ramsay show thank you for joining us the phone number here triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your careers your money your life anything you wanna talk about speaking of careers here at ramsey solutions we are trying to do something pretty radical we wanna transform so many lives that disruption spreads

like wildfire across our country imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan where the majority people pay cash for their cars where the credit card has become the cigarette of the financial world where living and working in a job that you love in a career field that you love and prospering is normal instead of statistically

philosophically unusual at ramsey solutions that's why we have a thousand people at this company working together to create digital products and all kinds of goods and services to help people transform their lives with the goal of disrupting this toxic culture and if you don't think that the culture in america is toxic you haven't come outside lately if you want to join us on that crusade we're currently on

the hunt for many software engineers ruby on rails java c-sharp front-end technologies if you're a ux designer we need you seo content marketing specialists we'd love to talk with you digital designers we're there baby any just about anything we've got about 360 positions to fill this year

we are exploding here we're just finishing up a new building next door and that means there's room for people it's that simple so find out about all these opportunities at daveramsey.com click on the right hand side button it says

dave's hiring if you're a senior level developer how about this when you teach people and mentor people and coach people to write code they're writing code that changes people's lives not that's going into a black hole it actually matters oh and by the way we go home at six o'clock we don't work you 80 hours a week we have this weird idea that you should actually be a good dad and a good mom and be home with your kids and that's

really weird if you're in the technology world because they try to kill people in the technology world it's almost like first year law students isn't it they just churn through them yeah churn and burn baby all right ashley's with us in sacramento hey ashley what's up hi how are you doing great how can we help um so i just have a question so

my husband and i were we're debt-free we luckily were able to get through school without any debt and my husband just landed his first job

out of school and he's making some good money so we opened up with his 401k and then also opened up a

roth ira and we've been contributing a little

bit but i know you recommend 15

to go towards retirement but we're also trying to save for a down payment so i was wondering do you still recommend the 15 while we're trying to save for that or is it okay to do a little less okay how old are you guys um i'm 21 and he's 24. okay

well first let's establish you've got some time there is not a rule that says you go to hell if you don't buy a house by 25.

okay you're gonna be okay you're gonna you got a little time to work on this you don't have to panic um you're gonna be just fine and you've done a really good job so far very well done all right two

things one is we teach a process called the baby steps one is a thousand dollars saved you've done that two is debt free you've done that three is a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses have you got that

yes we do good excellent okay and what's your household income um so he's making sixty thousand i'm still job searching that's cool so what do you think you'll be making when you land something um probably around 30. okay so you have

a roughly 100 000 income 90 to 100k right in there and you're just beginning your career so it'll go up that's excellent okay now we teach after people are at baby step three they have their emergency phone and they're debt-free if they are ready to buy a home at that point then you would save up your down payment if you want to put your retirement savings on hold temporarily we call that baby step 3b baby step 3 being the

emergency fund 3b be being saved for the down payment on

your home okay okay

and if you want to so if you want to sit out of retirement for two years or three years and pile up cash very rapidly now the other thing i'm hearing is i think i'm hearing you're not on a written budget and you guys need to get a detailed written game plan because uh you would have known exactly what was going on you've got general concepts and again you've done a really good job

but i want you to get in a detailed written budget jump on every dollar it's an app you can download for free and start to figure out how to put that budget together or look at a free uh trial at ramsey plus where you can use the every dollar premium budget version and get through the classes as well julie is with us julie is in nashville hi julie how can

we help yes i have a question so for accreditation at my job the mean salary for my position is about 12k more than i'm making and i have about two years before i can make the next level and i just wondered if i you know talking about her ken saying don't go after a raise about how you can develop and grow and so if i go and ask for a growth plan should

i mention like you know i i know that because the tables are posted like i'm less than this that i'm at the current salary you know at my current position um i do know that i for my location i

make more money in the area than you know other jobs in the area okay yeah so

i didn't quite understand that last part because i think it's got to be industry specific so if you're trying to industry specifically right it's industry okay but what you're seeing is the median across the nation you're about 12 000 lower but not in your area but not in your area yeah yeah so my area for my area i'm

actually higher okay but for my my specific company i'm actually 12k less than what they post for my title okay okay well okay so that's great information uh and so you're right i want the rest of the audience to hear this dave i don't like people going in and asking for a raise it puts your leader in a very awkward position if there's been no conversation there

and so ramsay solutions we've got a wonderful wonderful rhythm around this around growing and that is we have a very clear kra key results area it's one page uh for everybody including the personalities and so there's clear uh goals there's

clear boundaries for this is the work that i'm responsible for these are the results i'm responsible for and then we meet every year an annual meeting of course there's meetings all the time around here with our leaders but here's here's the deal i don't want you to ask for a reason when you sit down and say hey i want to grow and i i know that i need to grow my skills i'd like to know from

you if we could get together don't put them on the spot and say hey i'd like to have a meeting soon where we talk about a growth plan that includes me adding some skills that you think maybe i need to add strengthening some areas where i'm i'm good but i could be better to add more value to the organization and then you want to say hey as

i want to do those things i want to be measured on that growth and as a result i'd like to see how that may lead to additional responsibilities and more influence in my position or in the company and and when i'm growing professionally then that leads to a natural conversation of growing my income and so that's how i like people to to bring the leader in let

the leader have some ownership and speak into your growth and i think because

you're in a situation where you're paid you could go in with information and say hey here's what the median is and i've done some research on this but i i don't like bringing that into the conversation until there's a growth plan that's agreed upon because here's what i know dave in a healthy organization with healthy leadership they will respond the right way and they'll say sure we can do that

and if they don't have the built-in systems that we have at ramsey solutions this can develop that and healthy leadership will accept that and figure that out if they don't already do it and then the conversation david is is it okay off the back end of that conversation to say because i noticed that i'm 12 000 below the posted amount and i want to know what i need to do to be worthy that's

it you bring that up after you say hey i want to grow and make myself more valuable to the company with your measurement yeah and that's why i do want them in that conversation to recognize that she's being paid less than their stated amount yes absolutely that's a i would want to know that as the leader but you do that in the actual meeting that we described not setting up

the meeting yeah off the back of the conversation not in the actual meeting you're not opening the conversation with that it's closing the conversation with that yep that's it that's i got it okay yeah because i would want to know that as the leader so i could make the adjustment because i would go oh crap i didn't realize that's exactly right

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsay show i'm dave ramsey your host michael is with us michael's in boise idaho hey michael how are you i'm better than i deserve how about yourself better than i deserve sir how can i help um i got a quick question for you my wife and i are in baby steps four five and six and i've got some savings bonds that my grandad gave me for my birthdays

and christmases growing up as a kid they totaled about 900 so we're not talking about a lot of money here but i do want to honor my grandad with what i do with this money so i have a two-part question first would be uh dave do you have a guiding principle on how to honor financial gifts given by family members who've passed away well i i always just

it's a general concept i always just think well when i do this is he going to be in heaven smiling that's good that's really good and so you know it might be that he told you this is for your college and it didn't ever end up getting used for college for whatever reason and instead he hated debt and you use it to pay off a credit card well he'd be smiling even though it wasn't the original intent because it but it matches with who he is or was right right you know so my granny used

to give us savings bonds all times for our kids college and of course they don't pay squat and so as soon as i could get a hold of as soon as i could get a hold of him i and she she blessed her heart she believed in savings bonds and she was religious she gave those 50 100 200 to pop they're coming in for the kids and as soon as

i could cash them out i cashed them out and put them in a mutual fund and uh bless her heart i told her the truth i did not lie to her she would say how's those savings bonds doing i said they're doing great granny because they are they're now in a mutual fund so they're actually freaking producing something but i didn't give her the details i just told her

the truth they're doing great now because her intent was to help the kids have some money for college and her intent was uh what i did with

them i i didn't go buy a steak at a steak

house for myself that would not have made her smile right and then i would have had to lie to her or the truth and she'd been mad or whatever but you know but but the point is you know what's the right thing to do and you know that's my guiding principle on honoring whether they're alive or dead but certainly where there's inheritance what it does it keeps

you from doing something childish like if your grandpa leaves you 100 000 in exxon stock and you go buy a used lamborghini well that's dumber than a rock yep you know

and that ain't going to make him smile because he can't spell lamborghini i can just tell you that so you know i know i can't that's two of us michael well i mean that's the whole thing so the the point is just because when you get an inheritance you kind of have it's like you said it's 900 it's not a lot of money but put a couple zeros on it's 90 grand now okay

and so if it's 90 grand then you know what you have is you have a little bit of that lotto moment like game on baby road trip you know and you start thinking about what you're going to do with this money that's really irresponsible and mature yeah i got a thought here michael i'm just going to give you this and you take this um if it were me

because of your financial status baby step four five and six you're rocking it 900 is not going to make that big a difference it's not like you it would take care of a baby step uh or excuse me a a debt in the debt snowball i i would ask yourself or maybe talk to your mom and dad what if you knew him well what what did he love what fired his soul up was

there a cause was there an activity that that he really loved and if it were me i would do something really cool or consider doing something really cool with that 900 around that something because i heard in your voice you want to honor him and you're doing such good with your finances 900 bucks doesn't make a huge difference i love you can use it in your baby steps

and keep on rolling or you could do something cool here dave that let's just say he was he was into hunting or he he he was into woodwork or something and you could bless somebody maybe who's starting out or uh or or you know generosity moves generosity in the in the spirit of your grandfather that he would smile from heaven on that amen erica's with us in fort lauderdale hey erica what's up hi dave hi ken uh

first of all thank you so much dave you changed me in my husband's life no you did i'm proud of you oh thank you

um so my husband and i um we are our

question is whether we keep our house or not we um we actually are in ministry we live overseas um right now in the caribbean and and basically uh we are we have a house in fort lauderdale and we're fully supported by churches so um

but the thing with our house right now is it um we're planning to stay where we are maybe for the next five to nine years we've come to that decision so we have this house in fort lauderdale and it needs a new roof insurance isn't paying for it so we can't go through that um it's south florida so taxes are really high and we're learning about all this we didn't realize this with taxes and everything um and so we're just considering selling it yes um yes okay

today wow this thing's not a blessing

it's a curse it's not bringing you peace yeah that's true it's not it's not adding to your life can you make money on it yeah they'll make money on it you can

make money on can't you when you sell it yeah yeah yeah dave yeah yeah i just wanted to confirm that i mean so i think i put some money in the bank to ensure that to ensure that your missionary endeavor doesn't run up underfunded at some point yeah and you all the missionaries keep this is a problem as all the missionaries tell us and we just witnessed

it don't tell your house like this is the thing with missionaries they they don't have anything when they go back so they're like don't sell your house whatever you do so i think a big part of us is like if we sell it you know we don't want that money that well i i disagree with that sentiment and i have told missionaries that for 30 years that is a wrong statement

you should sell your house if you're going to be gone five years you should sell your house it take the proceeds and take whatever you would have spent on a house payment and invest it in good mutual funds so that you have a nice house fund to buy a home when you come home

yeah but the idea that you need to keep your property and try to be a long-distance landlord while you're trying to serve jesus in the caribbean that is just dad gum hard that just adds pain to your life not blessings yeah scarcity versus abundance you're not going to be homeless when you come back yeah you can especially you need to have a plan to have a home

when you come back so that part that's what's driving them to make the statement of never sell your house because they're afraid they're not going to have the money to buy a house because they've never saved anything so if you don't plan to have a home when you come back by investing then you then then you've made a real mistake but you need to plan by continuously investing to be ready to return

let's run the numbers out on that dave because i think it was great advice i mean just a ballpark number let's say they make a hundred grand on their house or 150 and they put it in a mutual fund she said they're going to be there five to nine years she puts in a good mutual fund that becomes that housing fund if all of their other expenses on

the mission field are covered that becomes a sizable down payment it'll double yeah it'll double in about seven years that's the narrative again that's not happening yeah but if you take that money and spend it to live on the mission field and you have zero money and zero house and you come off yeah that's the fear that has created this thing oh never sell your house when

you go in this field now if you're going to mission field for six months that's a different thing these people are going to be gone five seven years ten years whatever so that's a different that changes the equation as well kimberly is in san bernardino california but we're going to come to her after this commercial break i just looked up and saw the uh i saw the clock creeping up on us

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789 home to 33789

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today you can hear the ken coleman show on sirius xm as a podcast we're at about 75 radio stations around america so be sure you tune in he speaks every day to people all over america about how to get and keep the best career path that puts you into

what he calls your sweet spot living your passion kimberly is with us in san bernardino california hi kimberly how are you good hi dave i had a question

me and my husband are kind of debating

our question is should my husband take a new job and depending on the retirement we don't know a lot about retirement so we don't know the questions that we should ask he currently has a job where he has a tier one and tier two that he pays him to he works for the railroad so the new job from what we know

that he was offered does not offer retirement but they match six percent i don't know what questions to ask to make a wife's choice okay um well i mean if if they're if they have a 401k that they match in six percent that sounds like a fairly normal company type position versus the railroad which has a very unusual retirement system okay okay so what does

your husband make at the railroad he you want to know hourly no annually

okay i have the paper in front of me so

annually um i don't okay so annually it shows i

don't think it has one here so i'm thinking around what does he bring what's he bring home a month or a week or whatever okay so he gets paid every two weeks about twenty one hundred dollars one thousand after ten yes twenty one hundred dollars and so forty two hundred dollars a month so forty eight thousand dollars a year and so he's making about 60 65 000 depending on what's coming out of his chat okay correct okay now what's the new job pay

25 an hour so whatever that is times 80

times i don't know what that is

but um 50 grand okay thank you a guy in

the lobby just helped me all right so uh you're gonna make about the same or a little bit more at the new job okay right okay now the

question here though is how old is he my husband's 30.

okay so when he's 60 old like me

what's he gonna be glad he spent the last 30 years doing

which one of these what i think

saving for retirement paying off no no no no no no that wasn't what i was talking about can this is yours yeah so here's the thing we've got the numbers right he's making 60 to 65 now on the railroad this new job is going to pay him about 50.

there we go now now we're moving the right direction so this is a temporary pay cut for the opportunity to advance not just financially but also professional what would he be doing at the new job um so far what i know it's called the operator d so it's borax i don't know if you guys ever heard of borax it's called boron rio tinto so they um it's a mine and they do minerals so he would be packaging shipping out minerals everything to do with it's not

under the ground mine it's above the ground it has to do with the minerals they put in electronics when he talks to you when he talks to you about it what do you think his excitement level is

sorry what do you think his excitement level is when you hear him talk to you about this new job on a scale of one to ten one no excitement ten he's throwing a party what's his excitement level when he talks to you about this new job 10.

of your income away for retirement and they're going to match another six and so you're going to retire wealthy if you do that okay so you're fine you're not you're not you are not going to retire and have to eat alpo that's right okay good now here's here's the other thing never take a job ever ever just for the money

never take a job ever because of the freaking benefits package that's true always take a job because it has a bright future and makes you smile doing the work yes this is the way you make a decision on a job not based on the freaking 401k match that's exactly right now let's go back into our baby steps dave let's walk let's walk other people through this because

this call we get this a lot on the ken coleman show i know a lot of people listening watching right now are feeling this too so this is a temporary pay cut okay so in three to six months he's gonna go from 25 an hour to around 32 an hour so they need to get back into their budget and go okay we have to plan for a temporary

pay cut but it's temporary so we got to adjust the budget we plan for this and we absorb this your thoughts on that yeah absolutely absolutely don't act like it's not happening yeah because they only end up you know i ran up five thousand dollars in credit card debt because we took a pay cut you know that's just that's dumber than a rock don't do that so

you got a plan this is gonna happen it's to happen so plan on the drop in pay make sure you're going to br lower your lifestyle to fit that and then you can then you can begin your investing process later but yeah railroad retirement is incredible it is not so incredible that you should keep a job making absolute ceiling on your ability to progress and keep a job that

you don't like doing yeah this is important to point out that you know when it's time to consider moving on when you have been told and it's been made obvious to you that you've hit your lid now you've got to sit back and go okay am i okay with this lid because dave you know this we as humans are creatures of progress it's just wired into us by our creator

we want to make progress we want to grow uh some people have gone so far as to say if you're not growing if you're not learning you're dying now you there are some jobs where you go hey this is it and i'm good here and this is it but for those of you who want more in your work and you're in an environment where because of the organization or

the leadership there is an artificial lid on you you're not moving up it's time to start thinking about moving on absolutely that'll wear on you jeff is in raleigh north carolina hi jeff what's up i'm doing well how about you guys good how can we help so i'm curious i have 61 000 in a ira

rollover account from previous work history i'm curious if i should roll that into a roth ira uh i'm in baby step two no

because you're gonna you're gonna create twelve thousand dollars worth of taxes to add to your baby step two so i am um hear me out for a second

so i i was 17 five on my truck

i have fifteen five in savings and i'm getting ten thousand dollars back uh in taxes this year so that's gonna wipe out my debt we'll be on baby step three good and you still don't have you still don't have an extra fifteen thousand dollars to pay the taxes

uh so my numbers if i moved half of it i

would get just stop okay i would not do this

okay i would i it's an old 401k is that

what you said yes i would roll it to a traditional ira in good mutual funds later on in your wealth building i would convert it to a roth in a few years after you get the house paid off and do some other things and you've got some extra cash laying around but when you throw 15 000 or whatever

at this you know a fourth of it's gonna be taxes roughly at this account because you're rolling it to a roth then that's money you could have used to build your emergency fund build your kids college fund get the house paid off and some things you should do before you send the government money and so i instead would just move it to a traditional ira and let it sit there and grow in some good mutual funds and convert it to a roth later

you need the fifteen thousand dollars that you would be spending on taxes to do things that are more important than this becoming a roth today it's a matter of priorities you do

what you want but that's what you asked this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice can coleman ramsey personality and career expert host of the ken

coleman show author of the number one best-selling book the proximity principle is my co-host today so you've got questions about career about jobs well you can mix those in with the questions where we talk about life and money the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five and

is with us in orlando florida hi ann

welcome to the ramsey show hello thank you so much for taking my call sure what's up um well i'm a widow

and i just am really concerned about my debt my future on a positive i just received a ten thousand dollar check in the mail on the opposite end my primary mortgage was just sold to a lender that i'm not comfortable with i need a new roof and i have a heloc so i'm considering refinancing all of that together it would also be at a much significant interest rate and then for the and then

taking that ten thousand dollar check and throwing that at the credit card and i have a bonus check next month that i think will take care of the one other debt that i have is that a good plan to get me set up so that i can retire well in the future how old are you i'm 53. okay and what do you make about 63 a

year okay when's your husband pass he passed

five years ago [Music] i'm sorry um sounds like you are really on top of things proud of you very well done i like mine i have my moments i like everything in your plan except borrowing to do the roof

okay so your plan is really good you need to get rid of that he locking that higher interest rate mortgage by refinancing and get a cheaper rate i love that part of the plan that's really good the ten thousand dollars towards the credit cards makes a lot of sense is the roof leaking it is not um but locally a lot of the insurance companies are requiring that people re-roof their homes

and the roof on my house is probably about 20 years old so it's getting about time that it's going to need to be done okay do you have a bid on it i have people coming out next week to give me bids okay how big a house is it

um it's uh 20 it's 2300 square foot but

i also have a 600 square foot lanai and that just has a different type of roof yeah is it asphalt shingle roof yes it is okay all right cool you make 63 and you have how much your credit card debt there are 17 on the card okay and that's your only debt other than your home i have one other debt i i still have 1200 left on

the monument um for our gravesite and anticipating being able to pay that off next month with my with a bonus check okay how much is your bonus check don't be um it varies um but it generally it should be about a net of thirteen hundred dollars okay all right so we've got counting the ten thousand we've got eleven thousand three hundred dollars we got a twelve hundred dollar bill

and a seventeen thousand dollar bill right yes okay so let's get in attack

mode knock the little bill out and let's get those credit cards knocked out make sure they're cut up finish paying off that debt build your emergency fund and then build your roof fund

refinance your first and your second together i i don't want you going into debt further on this house because part of your retirement plan is getting this house paid off um yes it is i have a whole lot of equity in the house and i should still be able to get the house paid off in 15 years yeah well you i i yeah you're going to because you're not going to borrow for the roof yeah so yeah we're going to put this on

a 15 year and you're going to be done with it sooner than that and you're going to save up and pay cash for this roof and you're going to be able to make all of that work because you're going to lay out a detailed plan and um the good news about you is you

are really paying attention i'm very proud of you there's not anything happening on accident here you've spent a lot of time thinking about this and it led you to really good conclusions except for that one detail

and so you know you really have done you know you did really smart when you came on the air but everything you're going doing is in the right direction joseph's in kansas city hi joseph what's up good afternoon gentlemen yes sir honor to be talking with uh with you and ken on the show today this is more of a mindset question more than do we have the funds okay um i have actually been unemployed for 10 months my wife has been working i do collect i do collect

basically we've saved money aside to build a home and uh we're having a we've been saving for over 20 years to actually buy or build a newer home and now it's come

time i've been i inherited property three years ago and it was actually burned down b's property but beautiful piece of land and you know we

currently own the hall our home now we have absolutely no debt live in old dave ramsey way you know our newest cars from 1999 that we keep it running

so you know we're looking for for actually some guidance beyond family because everyone else in the family says live on debt we do not believe in that at all we have absolutely no debt so regarding this it's more of a mindset

question we uh we've been saving for 20 years we can actually we have the cash to build the home but we're just having such a hard time of actually finding that contract to go ahead and begin to build why because it's been over 20 years

of saving living very frugal way below our means which would make me want to sign that contract and get this crap done that's a good point dave and yeah you know uh both of us we've never made more than 20 bucks an hour uh the house bill itself is going to be about 240 000 how much does it say uh we currently

have 416 000 cash in retirement we have 308

000. okay so um what is it that's scaring you

it's the fact of

i just have not ever made a whole lot of income and it's going to take a long time to replace that 230 240 000 that we're going to be spending so primarily it's a matter of finding another position i'm actually starting my own

investment advisory firm i've been financial coaching no fee for years and it's something that i love to do but i'm still looking for employment and well if you want to wait until you get employment and that gives you the sense of stability to do this that would not be illogical yeah but joseph here's the deal you got plenty of money but if if if that's the last emotional hurdle hurdle uh that says

you know i really want to have a job before i break ground on this thing there's nothing that says you have to start today right and uh dave i gotta address this joseph when dave asked you point blank what the fear is it's it's i've saved so much money over so long a period of time and once i spend it on this house it's gone and it's not

let's say that 10

15 years from now you want to sell that house that's going to appreciate you paid cash for if i'm understanding that right that money's coming back and then some yeah and the home you're getting that is perfect yeah yeah and the home you're in is paid for and it turns into a really nice rental property i suppose uh yes sir it's actually it's this little two-bedroom home uh you know joseph rental property do it

you're ready to go if you want to wait till you get a job that's fine but you're ready to go there's nothing financially out of place here it's just hard you're right it's hard to turn loose so it took you a long time to get here and you kind of like that pile of money being there yeah and uh that's a normal human reaction so but it's you did it you you this is what you did it for now enjoy the fruits of your hard work and discipline

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance

but rather a federally approved exemption to the health care law it's a time-tested model to help take care of your health care costs it's christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills adjusting to a new system of paying for health care was kind of tricky but that's where chm stepped in and they really helped navigate that water with the hospital and the payment want to see if chm is the right fit for your healthcare needs check out our website at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org backslash

budget it was just such a relief to know

that financial burden was going to be taken care of

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ken coleman ramsay personality is my co-host today open phones at triple h 8 2 5

5 five two two five amelia is in boston

hi amelia how are you hi dave hi ken i'm well thank you for taking my call sure what's up um so i'm calling in today to get some guidance on getting on the same page with money as my grandmother actually she has given me a very

generous gift and put it in a trust for me of a hundred thousand dollars earmarked for tuition and for a purchase of my first home when the time comes so we've taken chunks out of that over the years for tuition and there's about seventy five thousand left i personally outside of that i'm just about to finish baby step three so i'm looking to purchase my first home in

the next one to three years now the question here that's causing some uh contention and disagreement is that that money is all invested in the market mostly in index funds right now and with me wanting to use it in the relatively short term my position is that we should take it out and have it in cash well my grandmother's position is you know it's done well it's earned great returns over

the last several years why would we not want to continue that so i'm looking on guidance as to how to have that conversation and do what i believe is the right thing with this money while you know still being extremely grateful for the gift she gave you the money and she put it in trust and she's managing the trust correct she's a bit of a control freak

i think with money it's mainly a position of experience you know i'm 22 she's 74 so

she's got a lifetime of experience and it does seem to me a bit controlling you know i'm a natural saver been financially responsible for my whole life you're in control and the money was given to you to buy a house and you can't take it out and buy a house with it right i don't understand

yeah uh i mean that's that's the point that i'm stuck at is how to have that conversation um so are

you when are you gonna buy a house um probably in two or three years why

two or three years uh because i'm not sure that i want to stay in this area long term so uh you know i'm waiting to get a little confidence there before i make the financial commitment to a house okay well this is more of an issue of uh

you know puppet master than it is actual financial advice right yeah and so that you know you just got to decide which hill you want to die on um as far as the you know her advice

goes it's not the end of the world okay let's say that those index funds went down ten percent during

that three years which would be one of the worst three year periods in the stock market's history sure then you would have lost seven

thousand dollars right yeah it's it's

not end of the world either way yeah and so and if it goes up ten percent during that time you would have made seven thousand dollars so you know you your

of this money not of this money being in

the market is not substance shouldn't be substantial because the actual dollar figures aren't going to be substantial her wanting to take advantage of the market is almost laughable because it's also going to be about seven thousand dollars right it's a philosophical thing

you know is really all it comes down to so you know it and that reveals

that you guys are both being drama queens about this yeah but that's fair to say um yeah it's you know it's not a big deal either way but it's difficult to have the conversation yeah it's just like it's a control conversation it's a puppet master conversation and you know so like i don't know if this woman is actually going to release this money when you're ready to buy a house i can't tell yeah i'm sometimes worried about that um

because she's actually taken out the the

growth that's already come under the account over time so yeah

yeah oh she took it out and used it herself yeah wow yes which i mean the original balance is still there so that was her call but wow yeah that was not something i was about to say just a little strange so here's what i'm gonna do i'm just go about the business of building up your own down payment and then if that money's there and she wants to give

it to you fine if not just tell her to keep it yeah absolutely that's fair enough that's pretty much the plan uh either way yeah because i i don't think you're going to win this argument one more thing because the problem with her actually letting you buy a house with a 75 000 is that's the last conversation she has where she gets to tell you what to do

and she really likes telling you what to do so i okay so i got to ask you this i'm surprised at your answer i was a little surprised is it great i mean it's dead on but i thought don't you just die on that hill with grandma you told me this is what it was for i'm not going to fight with you and ruin our relationship but that's what that's

it yeah i mean because listen you can hear what's happening with this lady and there is no winning the argument with this woman 100 agree okay so why have the argument because you're not gonna win it right you're either gonna sever the relationship over seven thousand dollars and the money's not the thing it's the control mm-hmm and um so

and then the other side of that is if i'm making a gift if i'm the grandma okay i've often said on here you're gonna get my money you're gonna get my instruction okay but i have never given someone a

gift and then managed it right

that's not a gift yeah that's that's controlling so that's you know but i i would say i'm not going to give you this gift if you're not doing these things but once it's given you need to take your hand off of it i agree and uh you're saying don't even try to have the conversation and go hey listen i don't want to fight i don't want this to go grandma

i love you and thank you for the money and i hope it's there if you still want to do it when we get ready to buy a house that'll be fine because we're going to go ahead and start building up our own down payment i know you'll be proud of us when we did that i love you thank you and just keep moving because what it does just takes all of her power away

and she really is a lot about power that's true what happens when gra if grandma dies before this i suspect the trust has terms that leave it too that would beneficiary of the truth is amelia okay that okay yeah that's good i needed to process through that because sometimes it's like principal let's have the conversation and i think you're right now as i process what you said it's like i'm channeling my inner john d'alone just tell them

you love them and keep going i think you're right i was wondering though i was like okay you're trying to be nicer dolone's inspired me to be nicer he's very nice he is a nice very in touch with his feelings and ours he's in touch with everyone's feet he really is he really is that's good and he has a lot of feelings yes he's not even here to defend himself i'm ragging on him no he's awesome man he's he's great

i love it regina is in

nashville hi regina how are you

fine dave hi uh thanks for having me on the show hello uh ken also how are you guys doing today great how can we help you we're short on time go straight to it okay straight to it um all right i'm unemployed my husband just got a job about three weeks ago we moved from uh california to the murfreesboro area in october i'm having a heck of a time

finding a job we owe a ton in taxes and

our finances are a mess what did you used to do

uh well my last position i was an office assistant i've basically been in office for about the last 20 years uh my goal is to become a loan signing

agent within the next couple of months

so i'm looking for you know something to tide me over until that can be enough of an income so that i can do that well then here's what you do so regina let me let me encourage this is a really good job market in tennessee and certainly in the greater nashville area and you need to be just getting a job or two right now you've got an income problem

and so you can drive you can deliver pizza you can show up and work at a grocery store you can work at a warehouse don't just limit yourself to office management positions when that's going to be a short term play it seems like for you anyway right now this is urgency and so we're going to go get a job two job three jobs just go get a job get stable

and then get back up on the horse towards that purposeful plan do anything yes so that you can do anything later that's right work like a crazy person and yeah there's positions out there lots of them in the murfreesboro area murphy's booming booming but you need to broaden

your focus to almost anything instead of so narrow so you get landed in get the wolf away from the door because you got this wolf howling outside and it's driving you crazy this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at eight eight two five five two two five jonathan and rachel are in bowling green kentucky says on my screen you guys are ready to do a debt-free scream what's up

hey how are you great how much debt have you guys paid off we've paid off a hundred and two thousand dollars in two years so 24 months way to go and your range of income during that time so we started at about um 75 000

um by the time we were done we were we were around about 115 000 and now we're back down to about 70 000 but that'll be going up soon we hope good good deal so what do you guys do for a living um i'm a dental hygienist and i work for ups very good but while we were paying off our debt um i was a dental hygienist

but me and jonathan we both worked at a um at a restaurant together he was the kitchen manager and i was a waitress which i've done for several years and we worked countless hours between the two of us we usually worked about 60 to 80 hours a week so it was wow how old are you guys

um we're both 29.

went crazy it was two years ago that we went crazy yep we remember every moment of it yeah and you did 50 000 a year for two years that's impressive i mean you've been on beans and rice rice and beans for sure we sure did there was many many times we worked seven days a week for the most part

you know with jonathan he would get up some days at um six a.m to go to work and we wouldn't leave until one a.m uh for the restaurant so it was it was rough yeah and it's over

it's over will you ever go back in debt

oh never again never again what kind of debt was this

um it was several things we had student loans mostly and then cars and credit cards not a whole lot of credit card debt though and we had a little bit of medical debt i think mostly it was um our student loans and car loans so we had a lease at the time which was very dumb yeah wow i'm so proud of you

guys well done thank you you are not afraid

of hard work and when you get absolutely not and you're not afraid to work together and these are very important things so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you did it honestly it's just staying focused it it really i don't know i tell people it really wasn't that hard once we put our minds to it you know we we worked a little bit more

but we were already working so much that it just you know it kind of after a while it came natural it was actually kind of fun you know every month we'd just pay off i mean more and more would go towards the snowball and it was just it was it was kind of fun wow well done well i

want to ask a question to both of you because this is this is something that i think people need to catch the fun part was the momentum each month

but there have got to be times when you're working that kind of schedule where you go i know why we're working this hard i don't ever want to have to work this hard again am i right you are absolutely right um

jonathan's been lucky going from working 80 hours a week to until he starts in his full-time position at his job he's down to 20 hours a week and this is everything he's ever dreamed of with the work last well i'm hoping you've taken a few naps jonathan because you've earned every day all good okay that's good to know that's good that's so great well done you guys who were your biggest cheerleaders other than the two of you oh gosh definitely my mom for sure um

your parents yeah my parents both of our parents have been really supportive through the whole process we we really didn't have you know i know a lot of people that go through the debt-free journey they have some naysayers we really didn't we had everybody was so proud of us on board with it so that helped so much my mom and dad i mean my dad would would text me or message me every

so often how much longer how much longer i'm like we're getting there we're working on it i'd love to ask both of you how is your relationship grown when you've come together so intensely

on such a big goal and work so hard how is your relationship your marriage grown

i'd say it's definitely grown a lot closer we've always you know had a great relationship but uh it's just a lot of give and take and a lot of working together and this has definitely helped to help strengthen that i feel like i mean i think it's helped us a lot because we've been able to we knew we were putting in an equal effort you know nobody

we didn't give up on each other we didn't you know as many times as we wanted to say okay well let's go buy this it's like no i mean if if you don't get something then i'm not going to get something so i think that really really helped you know it helped strengthen our relationship it helped us keep us motivated so what are you dreaming about they're hearing that people are hearing

this story they're watching this on youtube what are you dreaming about now that you're on the other side of this as a couple um well we eventually want to have kids so that'll be you know we wanted to kind of get out of debt to do that but our most reachable dream right now we

need to fix our shower so that's what we're saving for now that's our dream all right we'll take the little dreams that's good that's good that's a good first step well done you guys very well done

your impressive young rock stars yeah you got a bright future ahead of you you know how to work together and you know how to work and uh and you know how to execute and lay out a plan and execute on it you can do that with any part of your life now and you'll be able to do this for the rest of your lives absolutely very well done excellent excellent work new grooves are in your brain

you are ready to rock we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires that is the next chapter for you and uh let's count it down i love it 102

000 paid off in two years making 75 to

115 a lot of work jonathan and rachel

bowling green kentucky count it down let's hear a debt-free scream all right [Applause]

thank you well done you guys we're so

proud of you excellent you know we had some uh friends over for dinner the other night a couple two couples and we were telling old stories from when we were that age because that's the age we were when we were bankrupt and uh the guys like one of the one of the men sitting there was quizzing sharon he was doing the interview routine right and uh getting her side of

the story yeah because everybody everybody hears my side of the story and sharon is great people don't realize how fun she is when she answers questions she's like oh is the yellow pad

and he said what do you mean she said well when we we make a we every night we sat down with this stupid yellow pad and wrote out a plan of what we were going to do this week next week and what we're going to do 10 years from now and she said we kept writing that yellow pad and we kept writing that yellow pad and we were

you know the way we got through bankruptcy and the way we rebuilt our lives was with a freaking plan and doing it together and it's a yellow pad and you know she can see it in her head and i could see sit i remember that little oak table we're sitting that little oak pedestal table and we're sitting there with that yellow pad going okay next thing's fixed

the shower that's what made me think of it you know it's stuff like that the first thing you know you know before you start talking about being a millionaire you fix the shower that's the truth i thought it was a great answer because that's the show's the sacrifice yeah they literally rice and beans working themselves no this is awesome look great great couple because that's exactly what

we did we had you know we had to fix the roof we had to fix the heat in there dad gum air conditioner was out you and i talked about this a lot how good is that shower gonna feel it not because it's working yeah but because of how hard but if you went down to home depot and put it on home depot card oh it would spit acid on

you yeah it's the truth be like shards of glass it will never work

[Laughter] oh my goodness uh this is the ramsay

show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is

my co-host today as we talk to you about your life and your money the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five scottie is with us in

west palm beach hey scotty how are you i'm

great dave and uh ken both of you thanks for

taking my call here and helping me out sure how can we help i'm a new sole

proprietor and i set up my business checking and savings account good but um the bank named both of them

as my dba and i was under the impression from you that that should have like you know xyz corp tax savings account or

something to that uh effect oh no no it doesn't have to be named to that by the bank you just gotta nickname it that on the file oh

okay because i didn't want you know the irs to say well you have a checking name for you and you have a savings name no no the irs the irs never sees any of that all we're trying to do is make sure you set aside money out of your profits for taxes so you can pay your quarterly estimates and you just need a savings account to do that

and by that i mean a separate savings account that you're not saving for something else in and so you accidentally spend your tax money when you buy the something else right and that's what i've done yeah they're totally separate so then the next the last question is after i take that 25 out since i'm just a sole proprietor what's the best way to pay myself or just off

the the business the the debit card or or do i really need to set up with a payroll company no you don't need a payroll company you just write a check out of your account so you're you're a startup one-man show

right yeah yes sir okay what kind of business are you doing what are you doing i'm starting a small messenger of courier service okay cool so you get some money in and you throw it into the checking account when you get ready to bring some money out of that checking account home you set 25 of that

amount over into that savings and the other 75 percent comes out in just a personal check written to you

okay out of my business account yeah all right so you take your business account there's a thousand dollars in there that you want to bring some home out of that business account and pay some bills or eat and some stuff like that then you would write a 250 dollar check in to save and move it over to that savings account you'd write a 750 dollar check and take it home right now does it

strictly have to be a check it couldn't be did you say it could be anything but if you you know however you're going to do it i mean if you use how are you going to transfer you could just do a transfer if it's inside you know on your website but but just always keep that 75-25 rule going because in effect you are withholding like your employer withholds on

you they hold money out for taxes and that's what we're doing with that 25 going over into savings right and pay that quick and then that becomes my quarterly exactly and that becomes and that becomes the equivalent of a payroll company doing withholding that's why you don't need a payroll company at this stage fantastic i wouldn't screw with the payroll company until you have employees got it

and then it's then it's worth it using one to not have to mess with the irs calculations for all the employees which will drive you freaking bananas that's another story though yeah that's thank goodness very well you have listened to some of the entree leadership materials very carefully scotty and you've done a great job with that so ken uh the reason we've instructed people to do what scotty's doing that are opening solopreneur things is

the number one cause of small business failure especially a solopreneur crashing is cash flow problems cash flow problems mean you don't have any money why don't you have any money because you didn't pay your taxes when you get behind the irs or you go into a bunch of debt yeah and

so what we've instructed here is this is a situation we didn't get into this part of the conversation but if this is a side hustle for a while you know if that's the situation and you have a day job then i would just keep loading up that bank account and and until it can until you're paying yourself something that you really can use uh just get that company healthy in his situation where it may feel like he's doing this full-time uh and giving it a go uh having that tax and pulling that aside and being disciplined there that's going to help you tremendously as you learn the ropes of this because the first time you start a company you realize there are tax benefits get yourself a great ramsey tax advisory and get somebody who really knows what they're doing to make sure that you're protecting yourself because people don't realize when they work for a regular company where people pull all this out they just don't think about it they see the number anything that's a 1099.

it was just the sea it was pretty good i messed it up okay but it's somebody's name it's important no no i've i've gotten aerosol and

that's great well i didn't do that yeah all right how can we help i have a predicament i'm in the middle of a divorce um i get to keep the house my girls are

staying with me um one's 19 the other one is 17. there's

no alimony you transport anything into the equation the house is paid in full and i am going to pay him out

200 200 000 so my question is

whether i take out a loan to pay him

that amount or my attorney indicated i

could take out penalty free that money for my 401k i

don't know what to do which option would be better lose the interest on my 401k by doing that or

have this other language without the uncertainty of me now being had a household and having your income all the bails and everything um when how about 120

okay well i i hate how you got here

i hate how you got here but if you call me up and set up a 200 000 mortgage on a 15-year fixed rate and i make 120 000 a year and i got two teenagers i wouldn't be panicked hearing that

but i don't i don't like how we got here obviously you don't either it's been painful exactly um i'm just you know i've always

had the cushion of having him as a backup um but me now

being this whole hit a household yeah how old are you that free would give me 50.

okay so i mean if you take out a 15-year mortgage of 65 the house is paid for or sooner if you pay it off early right

yeah and as the kids grow and move out

you know you're going to have more margin and room in your budget to throw serious money at this house and get it paid off early so yeah i think you take out a 15-year fixed rate mortgage

okay and don't listen to your attorney financial advice she's not very smart

no it was just because my i don't you

know coming into having all this obligation now on me and the responsibility um i wasn't if you told me you made 70 000 i'd be telling you to sell the house you understand that okay yeah yeah definitely afford to live there because of this horrible situation you've gone through i'm so sorry

so right thank you no fun at all how long were you married

22 years how you doing

hanging in there sounds like it

yeah here's what we're going to do i want you to go through ramsey plus for a year i'm going to pay for it which puts you into financial peace university and puts you into every dollar premium and shows you how to handle money because somebody needs to give you a hug right now and that's me and ken okay thank you so much i appreciate it

and i appreciate this advice i've been one day debating one option one day debating the other and i'm just trying to figure out long term what would be the best well the problem is none of these options are wonderful because of a less than wonderful situation yeah and so it's it's not good but you're gonna get through it and we're going to show you how we'll walk with you kiddo i'm sorry

that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your

questions about your life your money and with ken here especially your career yeah looking for jobs uh thinking about telling the boss to take this job and well ken can help you yeah and uh little johnny paycheck reference there just gotta brought that in there it looks like that that's a good idea what a great song yeah it's a classic bunch of young people need you to finish that line that's

the song is take this job and shove it yeah and we're trying to help you do that don't jump don't jump absolutely find the right job keep paying off debt you don't have to go backwards in your debt snowball you can actually pursue work you've always wanted to do and not stop the baby steps there you go we get that question a lot which is a it's a natural question i'll tell

you how phone number eight eight two five five two two five

johnny is with us in san antonio hi johnny how are you hey doing great guys how are you doing better than we deserve what's up great thanks for taking my call so i'm uh in my mid to late 60s and i'm thinking about retiring soon and i want to know i've got some money to say in savings and i wanted to know if it's better to put it towards the mortgage or do some kind of investments ira or and if you have an elp in san antonio you would recommend my income is 75 annual

my wife's social security is about 850 a month um we have investments of

we have a fixed annuity of around 40 k

and then ira my wife has an ira of 16k

so that's a total of 56.

cool mortgage is 238 uh

on a 2.75 30 year fixed and we're four

years into it good for you well as you probably have heard if you listen for more than about three minutes we talk about the baby steps all the time which is the clear path to wealth and uh the idea being we're out of debt so you're out of debt everything but your house right right cards are paid for and the house is the only thing and you have your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses in place your rainy day fund right correct good yeah

and in savings right now i've got 33k and i'm getting another 5 000 bonus good uh we do have 5k allocated for a new range

that we need to replace that's the only major your next goal is continue putting 15 of your household income into retirement and to continue to build your nest egg and let's get this house paid off that's baby steps four and six and so lean into that house and let's get that thing finished off how much you said you got oh 200 and something on it right yeah 230 paint yeah so let's uh and that becomes

a big goal because if by the time you quit work if you have a really nice nest egg and a paid for house you have a very stable situation if when you retire yourself a home mortgage it's destabilizing it's less than stable because you've got that stinking payment laying there staring at you and uh it changes the last 30 years of

your life to live in a paid for house dramatically so well done you're on your way tamron is in new york city hey tamron welcome to the ramsey show

thank you so much for having me how are you doing today better than i deserve how can we help

i am calling i recently i have a question that relates to college and when

it is okay or sensible to

derail the plan and borrow for college

my husband and i we actually didn't even

discover your system until during the pandemic

and we've paid down a lot of debt we sold a rental property um set up our emergency fund wonderful we made a lot of progress in one year

well selling the selling the rental property gave us a large sum and we're blessed to have terrific careers but my oldest son is a senior in high

school this year and last year he expressed an interest that his dream school was a prestigious private university that's

around here i graduated law school from there myself so um tugged at my heart and i was

supportive of him that if he did everything that was necessary and got the grades and kept everything up as long as he could get scholarships and aid and the out-of-pocket expenses for us was less than 25 000 a year that

we could afford to pay cash through the school's payment plan and that he could go there my sophomore

however he had some trouble

when he started high school last year and he was getting into trouble and he was making poor decisions and

then when they closed the schools down he kind of continued to go down a scary

path from our perspective and he asked us if he could go away to a boarding school to a military school that's not too far from where we live and seeing that that was best for him we immediately in december agreed and enrolled him and sent him but i'm now paying 2500 a month for him to go to school

and our budget only has

after all of the bills and essentials

like food and you know clothing allows and haircuts like really the full budget only has about four thousand dollars to spare in it what's your household in i don't know um

right now we're at about 240

and i will be wrapping up my um clerkship my post law school clerkship so i would expect that next year

it'll be um closer to 300 if not over

300 which will give you the money to send the other one mm-hmm yeah and that's why i was there's not a plan where i dig back and forth to answer your earlier question there's not a plan where i put you into student loans okay there's two options here one is we figure this out or junior picks a different school okay and his future is not ruined based on that and pause listen pause is doesn't mean

never doesn't mean stop it's he could do his first year somewhere else in three years three through four yeah uh or two through four at the at the uh dream prestige school again if he lines up all the scholarships and it's 25 000 out of pocket with no student loans he can also work towards this you know i mean he understands what's going on in the family

and assuming you guys are there's some harmony there and he's as healthy as an 18 17 eight year old can be about his brother's situation he can work and kind of help out you know with this process as well and say hey here's where i think this is a family meeting i think you sit him down he says he knows what's going on and just say hey here's where

we are this is reality student loans is not an option we're not going to do that that's what dad and i have been doing you've seen us getting out of debt bring him into the bigger picture and say hey life happens sometimes this is a you know it's not fair it's right it's sad and you didn't do anything wrong uh and yet it's affecting you but still

it is affecting you and so here's what we're going to do uh let's pretend that you're you lost your job and you you couldn't send him to that school you'd have the same conversation and it wouldn't be his fault you know you would have lost your job and he would have to deal with that kids kids can deal with this so hold on we're going to send

you a copy of anthony's book debt-free degree i want you all to read that as a family and i want you to commit to working some kind of a cash flow game plan to some school that you pay cash for

this is the ramsey show

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i know what it feels like to think you're never going to be able to save money [Music] i know what it feels like to think you're never going to get out of debt but you can actually do it and we can show you how it's what we do inside of ramsey plus ramsey plus is our step-by-step plan that gets you quick wins so you can make faster progress on your debt and once that debt's gone for good you get more money back in your pocket

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tax free included the audiobook of

rachel cruz's brand new bestseller know yourself know your money free included and of course financial

peace university and of course every dollar premium version and of course you're going to finally get your money under control and we're going to show you exactly how to do that

you can try it for free but before before becoming a member just go to daveramsey.com ramseyplus and check out the free trial

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riverside california is on the line ken

is calling hi ken how are you hey hi dave hi ken thanks for taking my

call sure how can we help so it's going to

start off sounding like a sob story it's going to turn out with a good ending i've i've actually become debt free

went through a disability thing with with a failed back surgery turning 53 next week but dave i've done fpu coordinating multiple times i'm just here to tell you as everybody does that your principles work the baby steps work and if i can do it anybody can when i went from being you know high on the hog owning a successful business to disabled i lost a lot but

i didn't lose hope and i kept plugging away i kept you know doing the fpu coordinating even after all that and they've i've counseled people i've helped people out the principles work obviously i enjoy helping people here's my question i won't ramble on too long i'm looking at the coaching program

i've always done financial coaching as a ministry though i've never charged for it and turning 53 next week i'm getting up there i am disabled my income is only just under 2 000 a month here in california which being debt free mortgage and everything is a good thing i'm just wondering with ken there you know with the career and everything else is it a good idea for someone in my situation to save up might take me six months to a year to do

it to get that certification to do it as a ministry well uh ministry or would you charge for it when you say ministry what does that mean i've never charged i've always just done the financial coaching for free it's just something that i've enjoyed giving back doing i really feel like with my story it's very relatable a lot of people feel like wow anybody can and stay positive

you know yeah well look when somebody asks me is this a good career move i walk them through the sweet spot analogy which is very simple our creator gave people talent things you do well and you're supposed to use those as tools to do work that you love that fires you up when you think about it when you do it and then allows you to accomplish to produce results that mean something to

you we know that this means something to you so the question is if i talk to everybody that knows you can when they say that you're a good communicator yes yes people are calling me all the time i know i'm helping people in my family right now that's right and you're good at instruction which is what it takes to be a good coach communication and you got to be good at communication

you got to be good at instruction you got to have a heart for people you have all three of those so the answer is yeah this is a good move i i would just challenge you i have no problem with you doing it uh pro bono or as a ministry

uh but i just sit here and look at your situation and i think you could uh because there's no financial pressure on you to make money as a financial coach that's a good thing because this takes time to build this this is a one-to-one we build one client at a time um i just wonder why you wouldn't eventually charge because our our team can not only train

you how to be a really great coach but how to build your business are you opposed to it no no i just never have i've done hundreds of appointments you know and i i think you're i think you're going to do some of both if i'm you uh-huh yeah i think you're going to start charging for some and then occasionally you're going to see someone you just need to help

and you just want to do that and you just want to give them a leg up and you want to get them started but the the ramsey preferred coaches who have gone through all of the training and then that we send leads to some of them are making pretty substantial incomes the top ones are and so let's just pretend let's just say you made a hundred thousand dollars a year doing

this for fun uh then you could also give away a bunch of your services as well right sure sure yeah

there's no reason you can't do both so here's what we're going to do i'm going to pay for it i want you to go through the time that's great you need to go through the training oh my gosh seriously you've earned it you you're the man i mean you've got listen having a testimony is a wonderful thing getting one's a pain in the butt the truth and

you have been through that's the truth and so yeah i want you to go through the training is something i don't usually give away it's a pretty expensive item but uh madison pick up and we'll get him through the first series of courses i you can talk to the coaching team and figure out what what the proper way to get him started on this is a and uh just tell them

i said this is it this one's a gift on me that's so cool you know see i got you know what you see what i just did there it's what i told him to do yeah go make a bunch of money yep and give some away give some of it away yeah because he's going to be in a situation where he can uh he can do financial coaching for somebody who maybe is going through something

he went through yeah a physical injury that rocks your world wow and i got to tell you man it's dad gum pain and

medical bills are we seeing them in our counseling office our coaching offices every day all across america yeah it's a it's a real real thing without a doubt jean is with us in colorado springs hi gene welcome to the ramsey show

hi thank you so much for taking my call

without going into all the glory details

um my husband and i have separate accounts um we just put the house in both our names i have no debt he already had a home equity loan on the house plus a car loan now he wants to borrow

more money to buy some firearms

and with the hosting in both our names

it's joint tennis not survivorship i would

have to find some papers to say i could

consent to him getting a lien on the house should i do it to buy guns

yes how old are you guys

i'm 68 and he's 76. and how long have

you been married over 15 years okay i have a huge gun

collection i'm a gun guy i can't possibly imagine borrowing on my house to buy a freaking gun

i'm a gun guy i'm your husband okay i would i would be on his side but i can't possibly imagine what what gun purchase there could be that justifies borrowing on your personal home to buy it what is he buying a tank no

they're um single shot high wall

low wall whatever um and

he went to us he went to a gun shop and

they had these great deals and he knows he could get a lot of money off selling them

yeah he doesn't need to get in the firearms business at 76 years old by borrowing on his home

no i i don't think this is a good plan and if he called me i would tell him not to do it and so i'm going to tell you not to allow your home to be done because when this all goes out sideways and he can't sell these guns uh for whatever reason as an individual

or a collector or whatever he's getting into here i can't tell what the flip he's getting into but uh it must be in a very expensive collectible gun of some kind of sound it sounds like he got a great deal he thinks oh i can buy this now hold on from a gun shop he's going to steal it from a gun shop yeah like they're going to give him a deal

so he can make a lot on it i got questions yeah i'm thinking ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding warning warning warning because that's what retailers are known for dave yeah they're known for giving things away at cheap so you can make more money on it later yeah gun shops are known for not having no idea the value of the guns in their shops we're being sarcastic your husband's

plan sucks don't get into debt to do it

and that's from a couple of gun guys oh my gosh wow can't believe i told somebody not buy a gun i know just happened right here yeah that's harder than telling them not by a boat wow this is the ramsey show

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our question today comes from blinds.com a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more always use the magic word the promo code ramsey

today's question comes from amy nebraska she writes in i have a job interview coming up for an entry level position as an assistant manager for a coffee chain if salary is not brought up by my interviewer when is the best time for me to ask about it you ask about it when they offer you the job because presumably not always but presumably when they offer you the job amy they're going to tell

you what they are offering the job at as an hourly rate and at that point then you can discuss that but i would not ask about it early on i always tell people dave in the interview process uh you want to convince that hiring manager that you will help them win we've got to remember that they're people too and they're looking for somebody that's going to help them win

and so there will come a time in this particular question where uh the uh the hourly rate the salary whatever that is is going to come up completely through the interview and you're walking out of your first interview and you still have no idea what the pay is you don't ask well

fair question but in this situation um you can you have a good idea what an hourly rate is going to be at a coffee shop you have a pretty good idea and you can find that out pretty easily you have a ballpark range i mean it's not going to be something like seven eight nine dollars an hour you're probably going to be in that low range would be 10 with

the minimum wage politicizing that's going on right now you're probably going to be in that 12 to 15 an hour so you shouldn't walk into an interview like that going i have no idea what i can and can't do so it's a good point to bring up but you have to have an eye an eye on the type of work and do your homework prior to the job that's what

i teach you can find out what people are paying you can find out if it's a good coffee shop to work at before you ever show up so i agree with the general sentiment that you would not uh if someone i teach our guys here in

recruiting if they lead with what do you pay what are the benefits just end the interview yeah totally agree because they're here for what they can take not what they can give yeah and so it's over yeah and so that's the other end of that sentiment right uh uh but i i would be perfectly

careful at the end of the interview if nothing has been brought up to start with that's a really sucky interviewer that does not cover some of what's going on that is true that is true but uh if that's the case

uh you get to the end of it and just go hey i really appreciate our time our conversation i think i can add value here if this were to work out what is the general yeah i'm playing with that i'm fine with that what's the range i'm fine with it or something like that yes just so i kind of so i kind of know what to anticipate

and then you can go because that you may want to rule them out yes you may not want to go through three interviews and get hired for half of what you think you're going to get well you're not going to go through three interviews for an hourly wage like this for an actual job so i that is good context that i agree with my point is this

when you're going for an entry level position you need to have already done your homework on that place do they treat people like they're just robots and soulless people and they're just moving burn and churn through this do some homework find out is this a great place to work you can do that very easily it's not difficult with all the resources we have in this world so with that being

the context i'm always wanting people to show up at that interview and and absolutely blow them away so that they go they want you and the time comes that's good practice for a real job it is because you're not going to bring up salary you're going to bring that up in the first time you better not i mean it's bad i mean i had a young guy i'll never forget one of

the way back i mean we had 10 people and we had this young guy i ran into him i was speaking to church he came up he was real enthusiastic afterwards i was talking to him for 20 minutes and i said you know he said are you you're hiring for anything i said yeah yeah and he came over and he sat down

it was so disappointing because he was such a rock star in so many ways but the first thing out of his mouth is okay what's this pay yeah and what are your benefits packaging it makes me cringe-hearing it's because because he you know he instantly revealed his heart yes which is i'm here to take rather than to add yes and i can't come into the business i own with that attitude yeah i'm here to what can

i take versus what can i add you better put some water in the bucket or there'll be no water in the bucket and remember for entry-level jobs you're up against a lot of people it's a factory so i want you to put your best foot forward i'm not i like what you said i'd be okay with that but i want you to win the position when they're trusting confidence

when they offer it then you say you're probably going to do that in that first interview yeah because to your point to your point they're not going to do six interviews like and they're shuffling people through and uh so you wanna be classy you know did you fog up the mirror okay yeah well in some places that's the case yeah if yeah you can get higher smiles pass

the drug test and fog up a mirror yes you don't even have to smile i can prove that by some of the people that serve coffee so i'm just telling you

bad experience dave oh i won't bring up

a brand new dart sierra in orlando

hey sierra how are you i'm well good

afternoon how are you guys better than we deserve how can we help

i have a question about taxes

um this is the first year that i will be doing mostly contract work i worked as a pa a physician assistant

and i reached out to i think two elps

or three and i got kind of three different answers and i'm just confused

one of them recommended that i open an llc no and then pay myself no

okay i didn't like it the other one said

yes open the llc pay your own payroll

company no but they're wanting money monthly and the third said just pay 25 every three months

to the irs ding ding ding there's your answer that's the one you want okay yeah you what i would tell you to do is just open a separate checking account in your social security number it's a dba doing business ask and you have a little separate business account and you put all of your income into that business account when you want to pull money out of that

and take it home to buy things at home or pay bills at home or pay debt at home or whatever you'd hold back 25 over into a separate savings account to pay your quarterly estimates and your problem unless you make over a hundred thousand dollars a year 25 will cover it yes it's probably between

eight to ten grand a month um unfortunately there is an llc now open that's okay it's not the end of the world if you want to run it through that now that you did it that's okay because it'll have its own ein number and you just run it through that you can but it serves exactly the same purpose you just added the paperwork and the expense of

the llc to the process and now you've also added a new tax return to the process because you get the file tax return on the llc so you get to file a tax return plus the llc file files one so you've i want to ask you about that day for her shouldn't she just shut that down then why go through all those extra steps i mean i know

she opened it she paid money probably for somebody else yeah you know it's just not that big it's not worth it it's just it's a hassle because you got one extra tax return yeah but um yeah you know you're gonna have a schedule c on your uh personal return if you don't do the llc so you've got some forms to fill out anyway so for taxes so

you know uh it's not the end of the world to do that i definitely would not use a payroll company to pay yourself that's nightmarish uh but uh

i i don't recommend solopreneurs unless they have lots of money an llc is not there for

tax purposes it's there for risk management it's there for if that company gets sued you don't want to be the individual that owns it so as an example i actually own absolutely nothing now

i don't own a thing it's all in llc's

in corporations and trusts

and all of my real estate is uh my cars

are even in an llc so if there's a car wreck you can sue the company that owns the cars because that's who owns them i don't know and so you know the liability it's a risk management tool is all it is it's to get the risk down it is not to get taxes off of you so i don't use llc's for tax purposes they don't really serve one in her situation get educated on all those write-offs of being a 1099 or contractor yeah you'd be surprised how much

you can write off now that your good your tax elp would be great for absolutely this is the ramsey show

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our scripture of the day romans 8 18 for i consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us robert hughes said the struggle you're in today is developing the strength you need tomorrow well that's the truth brandon's with us in salt lake city hi brandon how are you

hi i'm doing great how about you guys better than we deserve how can we help wow it's a pleasure to be talking to you both i'm very thankful for the opportunity you guys are at uh to help me out i i'm uh i'm currently

in the job application process i'm a senior in college and

i'm currently i so i've applied to a position that i really really would like for a large corporation but the one problem is i'm trying to be proactive and trying to contact the or anyone a

recruiter just to say hey this is my job application trying to stand out from all these from all these candidates but i can't find a recruiter because there's there's hundreds of them in this company i do have a contact for i'm actually

connected with the person i'd be applying for um on linkedin right but i i'm

i don't know if it would be wrong for me just to jump the whole recruitment process oh yeah and contact them directly oh yeah but ken's going to tell you how to do that yeah yeah yeah well what do you what are you worried about if you reach out to them directly you're going to get like they're going to blackball is that what you're talking about yeah kind of like oh

this is annoying he's just he's not following the game and you've already applied you've already applied correct that's correct i applied about a week ago yes yeah well it's a major company so they've got a big big system and they've got a process so you know one way you could go about this that i think would not get you in hot water you've got the person who's hiring linkedin information

so you're pretty resourceful young man i do a handwritten note just something simple hey just want to let you know i've applied recently and uh love the company if i ever get the opportunity to work here here's why i'd want to work here really short sweet yeah let me give you another line to enter into that okay yeah go ahead and just in that note go hey

and there's a fine line between showing initiative and being just weird i want to be right near that line he acknowledged that you've done some homework yeah but i'm okay with that because a handwritten note is not creepy no you find their email and they're wondering how in the world you get that but if i read that and i'm the executive on the other side i'm gonna go that's funny yes

i like this i love that dave that's a great suggestion very very good i think the handwritten note is the way i would go but now what i would really work on is through all of your contacts yeah here we go here this is the proximity principle and we're looking at your web of connections we know from sociology research that the number one way to get jobs is through acquaintances

so get outside of your family and friends that's that close personal network picture spiderweb we're gonna go out okay so now we're looking at everybody we know on social media how many people you think they know so let's just i'm using this example let's say you got 500 friends on facebook well how many friends do each of those 500 500 have and you've got to get aggressive

there and just ask for people to help you don't be weird does anybody know anybody that works at x boom i'm applying i've already applied a company xyz do you know anybody that works there and let's see what that yields and then i would go to the personal context outside of social media same deal reach out to everybody you know hey i just want a shot at an interview that's not asking too much that's not creepy that's not arrogant that shows desire

and you'd be surprised what that will yield but you got to really work hard um and and then let the chips fall where they fall on the official submission because you're going to go through the system i'd have you look at the ken coleman resume guide uh we've got six templates in addition to the free one at the resume guide uh at my website kencoleman.com check that out submit

the resume that way you know stand out let's just give it to him it's it doesn't yeah that's free madison oh matt that was six templates give him the six templates yeah give him the six templates free and use those to reach in yeah and uh then and he's also if you'll read the stuff at the downloads that are free at kingcoleman.com it'll show you how to build

the letter to getting contact now i'll add one other thing to ken's system which ken system is flawless but it's almost an old sales technique i used to use if you do get an actual interview

during the interview ask

when you should follow up and set an appointment for the follow-up love that that way you're not pestering it that way you're just following through on what you said and they said well you know we'll know in a couple of weeks would it be okay if i contacted you on friday the 14th and they will say yes

and then when you call on friday the 14th they go yes brandon said he was going to call he called that's a good sign for him but also then you're not trying to chase somebody in phone tag or you're not trying to you know you're not worried that you're pestering them on a follow-up yeah because the follow-up is set you schedule your follow-up and then it's not pestering it's expected

then let it go i mean one of the worst things you can do is just keep emailing somebody look if they want you trust me they're going to get back to you do a great job do your best job in the interview do a follow-up we have a touch point timeline free guy get six other places to go after while you're going after this that's right don't sit around

and wait good idea yeah so hold on

madison will pick up and she'll get you those templates and a copy of ken's book the proximity principle we're going to set you up man for going to get the job you want and listen i need you to call ken coleman on his show uh and let him know if you get this job using these techniques i want to hear the story yeah we get a lot of fun emails

this stuff really does work and here's the other thing you know if it doesn't work let's let's let's really figure out how to open up our connections because what people don't know dave is is that they know everybody they already need to know i know that seems intimidating it's the one degree of separation it really is yeah it's when i was a kid we played this thing called

the match game you got grandkids now yeah but they still have the matches we played with our kids oh good and and so it's this idea of what you just start turning over the tiles and we go okay i saw an elephant here i'm looking for another elephant that's the it's the simplicity of i've got to be diligent i know everybody i need to know i got to keep talking about

it i got to keep asking people will help if we ask the right way yeah that's exactly right and

don't folks that are out there okay there's a lot of people looking for jobs and ken can coach you on this you can get all the details you need ramsey solutions will hire 340 people this year if we meet our hiring goals

however we will have 25 000

applications come in if you simply fill

out an application and that's all you ever do there is a high probability that we will

have missed out on hiring you it's true might as well play the lottery while you're doing that it's really a long shot in today's world with so many people applying for so this thing of i filled out a hundred thousand applications on monster.com and not on one call me back well no crap not a one did you know or i used ziprecruiter and did all this multiple filings at one time and zip recruiter is great we advertise for them yeah but but you cannot just mass

you know just throw enough mud against the wall to see if something sticks you've got to find that singular connective spot with someone that knows someone that knows someone inside and uh you know joe's friend works over there and joe's friend's name's sally and sally is gonna get you know at least have a connectivity point well here's another thing i got an email at the last break that a friend of mine had sent a lady who wants to work here right

and send her and i send him over to hr sure and that doesn't mean she's going to get hired but she's not in the stack anymore oh no she's at the top she's atop the pocket well she she maybe at the top of the wrong pile right you know but she's in well she's getting it look she's not gonna she's getting a look that's the issue there's gonna be a real consideration chances go up

when we get interviews we're trying to get an interview one thing we get all the time uh on the on the ken coleman show dave is people say okay ken i did what you said i really truly don't have a connection to somebody in the company and so the next best thing is with the resume guide and the resume templates at kencombo.com we have flipped our resume

and the hrc could you send that to that guy and only but here's what yeah absolutely you can reach out but what we've done in our resume and our hr team has worked with me on this we've got a world-class hr team at ramsey solutions the top of our resume dave says who i know so if you don't have a connection to somebody in the company let's use ramsey solutions example

then maybe you should get a great endorsement from somebody who is a world-class uh financial

advisor smart investor pro who we may not know personally but they're in our network or if you're going into technology get a great reference from somebody who's a big shot in that field it'll make them go huh yep they look at you that puts this hour

of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 196. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2022)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where that is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

open phones this hour the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five you can get in if you dial at this moment that's triple eight eight two five five two two five dr john delaney ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the dr john deloney show is my co-host today open phones

again at triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna be talking about your relationships talk about mental health about jobs about career

about money we're gonna talk about you right in front of you so john you and i were actually talking earlier this morning in a meeting and um discussing things around your new book coming out um that with all the wackiness happening in the world

that i mean your book and some of the materials that you're putting out are all about dealing with your past um own your past change your futures the title the new book but this idea that that you know things that have happened to me as an individual or to you guys out there as an individual the trauma that you experienced during covid or the trauma experience from family or the trauma you experienced from a job or whatever trauma wherever it was that's kind of like one set of

anxiety-inducing things you call them bricks in the backpack right and then there's a whole other set of anxiety-inducing things and both of these affect money they affect job they affect marriage because it affects mental health basically uh but the anxiety-inducing trauma type things are um i mean stuff like russia and ukraine uh stuff like

out of control inflation used cars are going up all right which makes me think i'm in a cartoon or something i mean instead of real life and this must be a pixar movie i mean how to use cars go up it's impossible and uh you know uh supply

chain stuff is just bizarre uh just trying to get something purchased and get it shipped to you uh is crazy so

people are experiencing i guess environmental type things that are impacting us the new negative news we'll just call it and then you've got things that are individual to you in your life that makes sense absolutely two different buckets how do you deal with those different buckets you know i was on an interview yesterday and talking about this exact thing and what i told the the guy was man

i woke i tell people for a living to get off your devices that's that's one of my cornerstone messages get off your devices and be with the real people and i found myself yesterday got up at 5am to go exercise and do my morning routine like i always do and the first thing i did was pulled out my phone to see if putin had invaded and instead of

looking at it and seeing there's tension and closing it and going about my day i sat there and sat there went to this new site and this new site this new site so alice went down the rabbit hole huh yes and i missed my workout i missed everything i grabbed coffee and i was able to high-five my kids and head out the door instead of here's the thing

you know what i can control about what putin's doing zero nothing there's not a thing i can do about that but no one else can either by the way what i could do was i could have got my exercise in i could have made my wife's coffee and brought it to her because i know that little tiny acts of service when i'm stressed out helps calm me down

i could have written a note to my kids and said hey i got an early morning of media hits i love you guys i miss you i could have done some things that i know bring me peace and bring my anxiety level down instead of fed it and so what i what i tell everybody to do is look at the things in your life you can control

and lean in on those and literally use the off button on some of these things you can check on russia once or twice a day and that's it nothing else is going to change and if it does there's nothing you can do about it right or the inflation or the get your house unless you're on the joint chiefs of staff you don't need to be riding it all day long

you can't ride it all day long and here's the thing because it'll ride you it it will bury you it will bury you my heart rate is up as though america's getting shelled right now and we're not right we're not and so man take care of the people in your area take care of you and i'm not saying stick your head in the sand and avoid it no

this is a worldwide issue we all need to be on uh uh in the know on this but get in the know and then get back out don't go swimming and bathing in the cesspool right get what you need and then get out of there man and then deal with your people in your life yeah the the problem is inputs matter and i mean and if you're incredibly

if all you do is fee and that includes who you hang around with it includes what you read it includes your screen it includes if you're doing social media or you're not doing social media includes podcasts you get off work and you listen to you listen to a murder podcast on the way home just you can get to law order svu right yeah for dinner like you're just feeding yourself

this stuff yeah inputs matter because if you put if all your inputs are crap your brain's crap your brain is terrified all day it's fight or flight all day all day and then a real thing shows up like inflation like you go to the grocery store and you look at your budget and say oh i got to make some choices on meat or vegetables this month that's a real thing that

you need you need space and capacity in your mind and body to be able to handle those issues that is taken up by other fake drama right it's just going to go and go and go and go so you do really need to identify

causes of stress and put them in one of two buckets things i can do something about things i can't that's right things i can't you need to limit the inputs absolutely all day every day just just just stop i had a friend's watching cnn watching fox all day long i think we're i think he's in a rubber room now yeah i mean if that's your only input is a 24-hour news cycle all day long 100 of it is hyped yep exaggerated and

bad yes that's exactly i mean it's just like you know eat i i'm gonna eat chocolate bars all day long 24 7

and then think that's going to work out from a nutrition standpoint i mean you know or whatever negative thing you can come up with to eat but i mean that would gag you if you got past four of them you know but uh it just your mind is gagging that's right and it's important to know you we all should be a little bit heightened right now we should all be anxious right now

this is a big deal right and i'm i'm i'm anxious to see what my government's gonna do to participate or not participate and what my leadership is going to look like all that's true and real and good prices are real the gas i can't even like i have to double take when you drive by a gas station right all that stuff's real and then what can i do about that

i can't fix the gas prices today and so i'm going gonna see it and i'm gonna go man that's that's that stinks i'm gonna have to make some adjustments in my budget with my wife and then i'm gonna go about my day because doubling down on that man it's gonna make me a ball of rage that's gonna affect my kids my wife my family my neighborhood and my work

you got to control the controllables and set the rest of the crap and control the things that aren't controllable that's right that's right that's why they're not called controllable i mean this is not hard yeah and yet we have gotten into this between social media 24-hour news cycle um i mean it used to be you know walter cronkite for 30 minutes in the evening your local news for 30 minutes in

the evening and you had a newspaper some of you don't know what that is you could look it up on the internet but um and that was you know you were stuck with that yeah and a lot of that was hours and hours and hours behind but then you had to go sit down with real humans and you got to have dinner you got the pontification circles well

i think this well i think this you're engaging with real people and a real human would say i think that's dumb i think this and well i think that and you had real interactions and your body actually goes okay we're safe i got a real person right here i got a real person right here we're exchanging ideas and now it's just grenade grenade grenade grenade digital grenade that's right yeah that's right which are about as bad as digital courage yeah wow scary times man scary times

but you have to control the situation you have to control your environment it's uh you're not going to get out of this otherwise that's right dr john deloney ramsey personality dave ramsey the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five [Music]

if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying sixty thousand dollars about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next

get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five

john's brand new book is called own your past change your future it is on pre-sale right now for only twenty dollars and john's got two phds 20 years

of counseling experience packed it into an easy to understand book this book is going to have a positive impact on everyone everyone should read this book

i got to tell you i personally it's changed some of the language i'm using not only with you guys but inside my own head as well and that's just from me reading through the manuscript because it's got my name on the publishing and so i want to know what the flip we were saying before we put it out there and it turns out you know it'll help like a 30 year old that's looking to sharpen their mind

this is not a thing you have to like this is a book for crazy people it's not it's a book for all of us have a little crazy and we all could adjust it a little bit that's right all of us have some things we could polish up and just you know a little more peace a little less anxiety all of us could adjust the way we're looking at certain things

and you give a framework for doing that and that's why i think this book is going to blow up yeah there's a lot of books out there that are scholars talking to scholars and they're fine and they're good and they're important and there's a lot of books out there on what i call way outside the bell curve for some significant mental illness for folks who are practitioners there's almost nothing for folks who are just trying to live life better have a better conversation that's right with yourself that's right have a better conversation with uh your friend

i mean the people you love right you know in our world today we were talking about this before we went on the air um you know the number of times that two people can just sit down and almost enjoy a good argument just because we can have a good discussion because we still love each other we did before we started and after we finished the argument we still think you're wrong

but i still love you of course and but everybody you have to hate everybody and you have to chop off everything in our divisive world out there it's like well you think you you you you you

have a mask or you don't have a mask and so i'm pissed at you for the rest of your life you know i mean it's like people are losing their dadgum minds out well they're gone man and so you know we need some new tools to control ourselves and also to interface with other people and just to walk it back you know what i mean we've laughed internally

and not laughed but we've thought really we look at the number of conversation cards we've sold like is that where we are and the reality is yep that's where we are that we we're starting over kind of like old school you gotta get a thousand bucks let's just start there right that's where we are when it comes to relationships and our mental health right now and let's do

it and let's just stop pretending let's stop walking around the problem let's go right through the middle of it well and and to my knowledge none of our leadership team or publishing team has significant mental health problems right to my knowledge and every one of them were touched including me and informed and given new

tools by reading this book own your past

change your future you know we've taught god's and grandma's ways of handling money for 30 years here at ramsey and john's doing the same thing now god's and grandma's ways of doing relationships doing mental health it is a complex topic but uh people that are smart can take a complex topic and make it simple around here we call it putting the cookies on a shelf where everyone can reach them

so pre-order your copy today at ramseysolutions.com it's 20 bucks you're going to get the audio version of the book the ebook version of the book and you're going to get one month of free weekly therapy sessions

from the fine folks at betterhelp who have come alongside that makes this 20 purchase an unbelievable deal so ramsey

solutions.com and check it out the new book coming out in april get it pre-ordered now to get all the goodies on your past change your future our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is

the number one online retailer of custom window coverings free samples free shipping with the two new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from david in oregon david writes i've been paying the bills but not doing a proper budget since my wife and i got married i thought i could do it

and we coasted up by for about 10 years then kids came time flew by and we accumulated 30 thousand dollars in debt i never made my spouse part of the process and held her off so she didn't have to feel the financial burden she has a quote-unquote feeling that something isn't right when i won't let her see our finances and she's right i recently read one of dave's tweets look at

you using twitter to help people i didn't know that was possible it said if you're in a committed relationship you've got to play with all of your cards face up how do we start over and do it right this time this is a moment this is it one of those cool mirrors a really great question i

love this question so dave in my life when i've i've had several of these in my marriage over 20 years it always starts with me saying we need to have a discussion and i need to i need to invite you into some hard stuff that's going on in my heart mine my actions whatever and i start with i'm sorry i've

been living this way and i haven't brought you along i've left you out i've excluded you whatever the thing is and i want to invite you in to help make this right and she's very right to feel betrayed she's very right or her feelings are going to be her feelings but it starts with somebody turning the lights on turn the music off and saying i was wrong

and i'm sorry let's start here yeah and i got to tell you that i mean i've walked couples through this and sometimes i played marriage counselor for five minutes in the middle of a coaching session on money uh in this and if he will just i got 99 percent of

the time if if dude you got the perfect

heart she's got the right heart actually both of you do for this for this to be successful and so i would just say look i have screwed this up i'm sorry the reason i screwed it up was it started off with i was just going to take care of it i was going to man up so you didn't have to worry about it and then it got out of control and i was ashamed that i didn't do it right and that caused me to even become

more guarded of it and i should have just brought the whole thing to you and we should have worked on it together and i really screwed up but i screwed up because i was trying to be the man and carry this for you and that's not the right way to be a man by the way and i was trying and then when it fell apart and i couldn't do it then i was ashamed of myself and i didn't want to didn't want to reveal to you that i had screwed up because i felt i felt stupid and so if he just says that which is what he said right but if he just says that to her she's going to be really forgiving oh man and this usually when i see a couple like this there's something underneath it which there's something about the way they communicate in this home that she doesn't like so if this is my wife she will not say hey i've got a feeling she will insert herself into this process right so there's something about it could be that they've been married five years and you've been married 20.

it's going very similar here it's different now yeah after 40 years you know we we kind of cut through the bull you know so those one hour conversations are six six seconds yeah it's like not i have a feeling it's like ah you're scheming and scamming what the crap's going on but something here is going to have to change in how they do because this isn't just going to show up money it's going to show up with kids it's going to show clever

let's let's come up with a new way of doing business of loving each other and here here's the lesson that you get out of this and you learn it through the money lens and it will affect your whole marriage to your point and the lesson that you get out of it that's so beautiful is this that everything you do is going to be better when you do

it together right instead of you trying to give her the gift of her not having to worry right that is not a real gift and every time that's a falsehood have a feeling uh hey something's not right develop a language that y'all can ask each other that question yeah it just does away with it right right away just goes away it's poof you deal with it you move on oh

and by the way this also tells us that your wife has really really good intuition yep and so the next time she has a feeling about the car salesman but you think you want to buy the truck anyway you need to get off the lot yep because her feelings are probably pretty intuitive probably pretty accurate yeah it might be god speaking through her i've learned that the hard way yeah

if sharon says sharon's southern so she says she it's a seven syllable word i got a bad feeling and if she gets a bad feeling and i go against it cost me 10 grand at least i just quit doing it i just don't go against those feelings they're expensive i've been wrong almost every single time i just i mean we have to get on the same page

and i i don't violate that i mean i'll question her i'm like was it last night's pizza i mean why are you having a feeling but but she's like no no this guy i just think he's a bad guy i don't know what it is but i can't put my finger on it but i got a bad feeling oh geez we're getting away from that guy oh he's playing asap gonna find out later what happened with him

this is the ramsay show

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let's

still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry

it's worth it

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welcome back we're glad you're here america dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money joe is in st louis hey joe welcome to the ramsay show hey dr john and dave thanks for taking my question i'll try to make it brief we are in baby step five thanks to you guys's plan good for you um and we did

it uh we kind of did like a 3b to save for my car i've got an old corolla and it's still running great would it be okay to take some of that money and then max out um our roth iras for the year

and then kind of rebuild that 3d backup just because the market's down i figure it's probably a good time to invest oh i think so you would be putting in over 15 percent uh into our rocks if you are if you put this into retirement you're currently putting 15 at baby step 4 already into your retirement are you not yes we are but right now we're kind of doing

it we just drafted out monthly oh you're gonna put a lump sum in it right now yeah as long as the total for the year is not more than 15 of your income that'll be fine yes yes that's correct okay but if you're if you're saying should i invest more into retirement than 15 of my income while i still have a mortgage no i would not tell

you to do that no yeah we just have the money for the car but the corolla just keeps going so we were just uh wondering if we could do we've been there and it's a crummy time to buy a car yeah because they're outrageously priced right now so um you know i mean you can get a car but if you and sometimes people need a car right now

but if you just you got a car

that's working and you don't have to move it so uh what happens if the corolla lays down what are we going to do uh well like we still have uh enough to buy something that would work and if we needed to i guess take an extra two or three grand out of the emergency fund we could do that yeah then as long as you're not over 15

you got you kind of thought through the what ifs then yeah i'd dive in on it for sure have it have at it bro ah solomon is with us solomon is in new york city hi solomon welcome to the ramsay show hi there dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up so i'll try to keep it short but basically i called the show a couple months back

and you told me that because i'm so young i should just stash away cash uh for now in savings and so now i've been doing that but i'm keeping keeping obviously a couple couple hundred just like in my checking account and i've been recently i got approached by a few people who are collecting for charity besides the ties and i can't help but be a little bit

like the i have a bad feeling when i'm giving them money or not giving them as much as they as i could you know so my question is how do i stop that from happening that feeling yeah um i have never been able to stop it from happening and it doesn't matter how much money i give and how much money i have allocated to give there's always wonderful things that need help wonderful ideas of helping people uh there's a whole lot more places to give that are valid than i'll ever have money yeah that's kind of what

it feels like yeah and so when i kind of get that my wife makes fun of me and she says that's jesus's job that job's taken you're not him you can't solve everything by yourself all you can do is solve what's put in front of you with a reasonable ratio of what you have and then release it because you're not going to be the answer to all

the world's problems in other words neither am i and i have to relearn that because i feel that's the exact same tension i felt it this morning because we have a budget uh an amount laid out that we do giving on our family foundation and uh a thing popped up into my email this morning from my daughter that's the director and and i wanted to do more than

we should because i like the idea of what it was and my wife said nope that's what we're doing and i'm like yep that's what we're doing because we're not jesus it's his job i feel that i feel that same thing i think everybody does so yeah here's the thing you will not become stingy because people that ask this question never become stingy you don't have to worry about being selfish

but what you do have to learn to manage is the tension of you can't solve everything be everywhere have enough money to fix everyone's hurts and if you give yourself into a hole go back to college i used to pick up tabs for people or pick fill their gas up if they look like they needed it but i did it on a credit card right i dug myself a hole thinking

i was being a hero and it didn't work right that you run out of air at some point so make sure you've taken care of yourself you're not good to anybody if you're not taking care of yourself if you're not whole so you know i th there's two things one is you're not a selfish person because selfish people don't ask this question right and when you get more money

you become more of what you already are so you're gonna be okay yeah number one number two you're always going to have attention and you have to release it and say i'm not god that's his job

i'm he's going to put in front of me what i can do and i'm going to do what i can do and not bring harm to my family while i'm helping other families and other people and um and that's the balance of it uh so that that's how i that's how i've done it but i i will tell you that i feel this exact same tension yeah

so uh josiah is with us in omaha hi josiah how are you doing well thanks for taking my call sure what's up so i have a vanguard retirement fund that tracks it's just a mutual fight now you always get confused etfs and mutual funds but it tracks with the you know stock markets and what i was reading is that we're going to enter into a bear market

and um that one article suggested

i invest i do dollar cost averaging um

invest in commodities i was looking at a uh mutual fund that just temporarily did

you read the article that said you're supposed to send it all to dave ramsey or john deloney yeah um because that article is out there no it's not it's not out there but just because you read on the internet doesn't mean it's right yeah matter of fact that probably invalidates it that's true so otherwise i wouldn't be here but it would still be i know i know that in

times of volatile times you know you're not supposed to have knee-jerk emotional reactions exactly but he who he who jumps off a roller coaster in the middle of the ride is he who gets hurt finish the ride my brother exactly finished the ride my brother so continue to invest but i you know what the right question i guess is like the 10 000 millionaires that we studied that became millionaires

the number of them that jumped out of their investments into commodities because they read an article and that made them wealthy when things were scary in the news was precisely zero none of them did that none of them did that they kept investing and they kept investing and they kept investing when it was scary when it was wild when it was fun when it was good when people are smiling

when they're frowning when they're cussing and when they're singing joyful noises all the time they just keep on investing just keep on investing just keep on investing you can call it dollar cost averaging if you want to call it that but that's not the advantage to it the advantage of it is you don't stop investing and you don't change horses in the middle of a flood while you're in

the middle of the stream you're gonna drown no no no no no no and

quit reading stupid butt articles on the internet because it'll cause you to do this stuff oh man a friend that got cancer or he's got a cancer scare yeah may have cancer or may not and um i said listen do not listen the cancer

might get you but i will 100 guarantee you i'm going to kill you if you google and start reading about cancer on the freaking internet because you are going to get bad information a bunch of goobs on there with opinions about tomato seeds or whatever else they dream up and i'm going to pound you if you open your computer and type in the word cancer there is one whenever

i see articles like this i always go to what's the incentive and there's somebody who's got a commodities trading office that makes money on the exchange that looks for precisely folks like you josiah who are trying to pay attention who love their families who are a little bit scared and they say hey come over here come over here and you're going to jump off and you're going to give them your money well

let's do it the other thing is this very very seldom do you actually get conned by a real con man right but you can get conned by an enthusiastic ignoramus and there's a whole lot more of those than there are con maybe you just described social media i did you did one phrase what phrase this is the ramsay show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today as we talk about mental health as we talk about relationships jobs career money it's all right here on the ramsey show by the way we're going to be doing a relationships and mental health theme hour soon which will of course include dr john delony and uh that's so we're going to take questions on in that hour about marriage parenting family friendships boundaries your own mental health anxiety depression all

the things that fall into those categories relationships of all kinds so if you want to be part of that you can go to ramseysolutions.com ask put mental health in the subject line kelly i'll get back to you to schedule you for a call and to be part of that theme or if you have questions about those things you can talk about them today too here at triple eight eight two five five two two five ramsey solutions dot com slash ask put mental health in

the subject line and we'll do a relationships and mental health theme hour together you and me and dr john all

right matthew's in buffalo new york hey matthew how are you oh i've seen better days but i can't complain if i'm being honest how are you doing today better than i deserve sir how can i help better than i deserve to i love hearing that i'm a little nervous um bear with me um i just want to say thank you mr ramsey and dr john you guys have helped me um

so much that you guys won't see the back end of but emotionally spiritually financially i want to thank you guys for all that you do i listen to the youtube channel all the time almost every single day thank you how can we help today sir my question so my question here today is i have made a giant mistake and i've neglected um a couple bills and they've gone to collections

and so well background i'm 19 years old i'm young i'm stupid and i'm glad i'm making a mistake today so i don't have to make it with a bigger mistake later and like i said these have uh bills have gone to collections and they're about up to 800

um and i was wondering if i should call these collections companies and

get these um sorted out through a credit card or

through my debit card because if they go through and um overcharge me and it goes through a credit card it'll be easier to dispute it with the credit card company versus the debit card company i've had issues with both and it's been fixed with the credit card much easier than the debit card and getting my money back so i just want to get your advice and thoughts on what

i should do where i should start and that's it so thanks uh for that okay thank you what are the bills for what did you not pay um so i did not pay um some toll bills

um for like driving over bridges and that kind of things and like i said they're up to eight hundred dollars oh it's all and you solve that one thing yeah it's all one thing over the course of uh about a year now and i was young stupid and neglected them okay all right thank you for taking responsibility yeah we've all been there man that's a good that's a good

first start for all of us to take responsibility for what we do and cause um so no i would not use a credit card because i as you know for me i know you're against credit cards i would not have a credit card so first thing i'll do is take some scissors and place across that thing and squeeze hard have plastic surgery and um yeah then close that account

so okay that answered that part now the debit card yeah you're right i would not give them electronic access to your checking account which your debit card does do and so i would not use that to settle a collection so you were onto something there what i would do is just find out the amount exactly by having a phone call or an email exchange with the collector

and say all right if i get back on the phone with you in a few hours uh what will be the amount okay and then go buy a prepaid debit

card for exactly that amount to the penny and then give and then give them that and then cut that up because it's a one-time use item gotcha so what about a money order with that you could do that too that's fine you just or you could do a wire you can do a wire if you want to as long as they're not having your debit card or or

they don't have your checking account number and matthew i even i have a it's a digital version of this i have a service that i use that's free it's online that i put my debit card number in and it gives me an unlimited number of numbers of debit card numbers that i can use for vendors online and i get to say what the max payout is so

if it gets taken you can't go any further does that work what's that called privacy.com okay that's what i use you can try that is it free it's free yeah it's fantastic but i put my number in that way do what privacy.com yeah and i put my debit card in there and then any of my online purchases i don't want online companies having my access to my checking account

and so i can say you can al that any purchase can only be this much amount but again there's probably a dozen of those kind of companies out there and obviously do your due diligence but um like dave said yeah don't ever give them access to your account yeah that's the big thing and you know get in writing it'd be great if they just send you an email back

and say if you pay by the 15th of of march then it'll be this amount and

then you've got that in writing and you keep keep that in a file in hard copy and you keep a hard copy of whatever methodology you used to pay in the file so this if this ever comes up again you've got proof that it was all settled out and uh the great news is you're now on top of your money and you're gonna handle things pay your tolls matthew well done

there you go all right christy's in charlotte north carolina hi christy how are you i'm good how are you better than i deserve what's up i have a well two kids one's already in college and my son is a high school junior he's 16 and started working and he saved about five thousand dollars so far his goal is to be debt-free his college he doesn't wanna he wants to have a debt-free degree right now

he has three thousand dollars in savings 800 in checking and he had bought some stocks he invested 700 and um

then it went up to about 1500 it's down about 1200 now and i called one of your coaches earlier and asked he wanted to know if he should invest part of that savings for three thousand dollar savings into a mutual fund and they said no because he'll need the money and follow he wants to go to community college first and then to a state school so he'll need

the money in fall of 2025 and um they said no don't invest into a mutual fund i forgot to ask him about the stocks whether he should keep well they're more volatile than mutual funds you know right but he already had those he said not to invest more of the savings into mutual funds but we didn't know what should he sell those i would catch him i'd cash

it out and put it in the savings okay trap your wins and uh avoid the losses uh here and there's two reasons for that okay one is is that um you know we're protecting the money that he has made and it's not gonna go down further with geopolitical events in the

air we don't know exactly what the stock market will do in the next six months it's not a time to be screwing around with single stocks the second thing that's more important than that because this 700 or 1200 or whatever it ends up being is not going to cause him

to be able to go to school or keep him from going to school it doesn't answer right it doesn't solve the problem so if we lit it on fire it doesn't end the him going to school theory right so so what we really do with it doesn't matter that much but what does matter is what he believes

causes him to win and if he starts to see himself as a wonderful stock market day trader he's setting himself up for losses for the

next three decades before he figures out that's a dumb butt idea and so i don't want to strengthen a muscle that i don't want people using

yeah that was kind of his fun money that was that was not his work money yeah i know but it's kind of like it's kind of like let's say he dropped by the casino and dropped a quarter in and it came out 300 bucks and but and then he did that again and it worked again uh then he starts to think that's where wealth comes from yeah see we we let him buy those stocks with the thought that it would probably go down and he would learn his lesson and then

brutal hey listen when i was his age i would have taken that money and bought laffy taffy so y'all are way ahead of the game matter of fact you might do that now i probably wouldn't take most of my ramsey paycheck um to the cafe and the dentist but but yeah shift that man he's on the right track just shift where he's aiming those that financial that financial weaponry

and um something that's more sustainable yeah when you're teaching kids about money and letting them participate in different types of financial instruments understand that you are that the actual dollars that are moving around don't matter much but what the the lesson that you're teaching them is this is the way to do it and that's you know it's like well he'll learn to be responsible if he has a credit card no

he won't he'll learn to use credit cards that's right you know that's that's don't give a teenager a credit card dumber rock because you're gonna have an adult with a credit card later this is the ramsey show

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hey it's john delony co-host of the ramsay show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsay show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to ramseysolutions.com

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today as we take your questions about your relationships your mental health your job your career your money

your life we talk about it all right here on the ramsay show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five john it is really popular right now to hate rich people because they're evil and they're greedy and we should hate all of them agreed anyone who is successful should be completely torn down they should not be allowed to be successful because we want everyone to be at the same level because we are now a bunch of communists and so

greedy rich people horrible evil rich people are everywhere and we have decided that because the horrible evil greedy rich people are everywhere that james our producer decided we're going to start exposing how horrible and greedy and evil they are pretty regular basis so carissa collins is the owner of the popular instagram account the collins kids which consists of her and her nine children the social media influencer revealed on tuesday that this guy with a 400 million dollar net worth he's kind of a short guy

and um james no george campbell no the

guy with the guy with the 400 million dollar net worth that would not be james and that would not be george campbell oh that's my bad yeah his name is shaq she might have heard of him shaquille o'neal never heard of him yeah so he took the collins family out to dinner babes chicken the next day took him the mercedes-benz dealer and bought them a 15 passenger band

after buying the car they went out to dinner again at the rainforest cafe where he dropped another thousand bucks with the tip on the waitress just the tip to the waitress alone and after dinner he uh noticed uh chris's husband's truck which was uh the heat and air and the air conditioning was falling apart you know it was a dumpy truck and so he took him down

the ford dealership and bought him a new truck who is shaq did you know i could get i see like elvis i get choked up people cars i get choked up on these things man this is amazing

because like let's not blow pat that a thousand dollars for that waitress at the rainforest cafe changed her entire i mean that's huge yeah don't drive past a 15 passenger mercedes van okay that's just a little different than a thousand dollars too but oh my god oh and i saw this one where he got up all of this he dropped less than i don't know what that van cost

but he dropped 150 000 probably and he made he has a 400 million net worth so that is like you know it's a very very small percentage ratio of his world he's not broke from doing it i saw this one the guy was in there and he was trying to buy a wedding i mean engagement ring for his wife and jack just happened to be in the same jewelry store shopping for something

and the guy was kind of getting nervous and he was trying to he was paying and shaq walked over and just handed his car to the the person at the counter and pat him on the back and said congratulations my man could you imagine being able to just do that for somebody just being in there to buy something for your wife or your sister and all of a sudden being able to

i mean come on man it was such an amazing thing bought a house for this young man who was paralyzed by a stray bullet yeah these evil rich people need to stop this that is ridiculous that's just ridiculous that your your evilness needs to stop that's right evilness that's a word right evil in action

shaq you're just you're destroying the reputation of the evil rich people come on man with that with that outrageous generosity come on man wow that's pretty cool i did not know he had this uh knack for random generosity like this that's very well played about a thousand places and he's so he's so subtle because he fills up the whole room when he walks in it so there's no way

you can be shaq and be invisible but can i tell you he does it i saw him i saw a clip of this with the guy at the zales and it was the most quiet it wasn't a big hey look what i'm doing he gently handed the guy and said this one's on me and it's in his big deep voice and he patted on the back and

he said congratulations brother and walked off and it was not a it was i've been blessed so i can be a blessing right it's that sense of i've been given so much and i'm just going to bless these families and and of course he's got these big you know things that he gives 500 kids to clothes here but but it's just that kind of generosity man that

i can get choked up thinking about it because it's so cool um and thinking how cool it'd be on the other end of this to be able to just do that well the thing is with our you know generous people make your eyes leak yeah and they just we all love them nobody hate nobody hates generous people no but but you know you can't do that

if you're broke if you're broke and you're bitching about rich people on your iphone that you have payments on you can't do that because you're broke

so hello just just just a little heads up there you know bitching about rich people on your 800 dollar iphone thanks for pulling the wool thousand dollar iphone huge yeah james you just you just you're just showing people how rich people really are um we can continue this level of expose [Laughter] it's just emotionally distressing to you know to just let people see how people really are out

there because generosity is all over the place man wow hey uh jacon is it jaqen jacon is with us in modesto let's see if i can get it on there there it is jacob how are you man what's up good how are you guys doing today great how can we help

good um so about two and a half years ago found you

uh me and my wife are about a month away from being done with baby step two yay and then um shortly after that once three is done i have a six-year-old a four-year-old and a seven month old all three girls you are in it my brother you are in it yes yes

but i was thinking about 529s in their future and from what i understand is you can

use a 529 for any family member

so is it better to get them three individual 529s or would a single 529 that i could just load up

earn more money faster no i won't matter three with a thousand dollars in them each will grow at the same exact rate as

one with three thousand dollars so it won't matter i would open three so that you've got an individual accounting for each kid and you can tell what's going on sit down with your smartvestor pro they can help you get that open but there's no change in compound interest is compound interest it works the same way because it's always dealing with the total amount of money you have in other words

if you take three one thousand dollar deposits into exactly the same mutual fund with three different account numbers or you put three thousand dollars in that mutual fund with one account number it will grow at exactly the same rate exactly the same rate the fact that it's separated does not change the math at all on the total now it does change the math on the thousand obviously

because it's not three thousand it's one thousand but but the uh but on the total it doesn't change it at all you'll be just fine and and you it's better to be able to look at the kids and go hey come over to the screen this is your 529

and we're starting to talk about your future and how we feel about education with you and where you are going to go to school and that's a different individual instead of like okay family let's have a meeting and talk about the the group for the community 401ks

[Laughter] this is the ramsey chef

[Music]

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dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life and your money okay married folks imagine never having another money argument what would that be like considering it's the number one thing people divorce over money fights money problems the number one thing they fight about money fights money problems when you get on

the same page with money it's like there's not a lot left to fight about i mean you got to really work at it after that so it changes your marriage it changes your finances it increases the probability of success in your marriage and in your money hello sounds like a good plan how do people learn how to do that in financial peace university we've been teaching people to do that for many decades almost 10 million people have been through

this class and many many many of them say it saved or enhanced or changed their marriage in a good way

so to join a financial peace university class you can take a free trial at ramseysolutions.com fpu that's ramseysolutions.com

fpu oh by the way we'll also teach you how to get out of debt and become wealthy which is actually what the class is about but in the process it changes your

marriage ramsey solutions dot com slash

fpu phil's in minneapolis hey phil what's up hey dave and john uh yeah i'm calling from minnesota i got a bit of a weird question that i've never heard answered before i am a realtor so i work on commission my wife and i are in baby step four five and six she works for the school district and we front loaded our iras roth iras in november and

we just did our taxes and turns out we made over the threshold so we can no longer put in the six thousand dollars total so you made over 200 000 household income yep just barely but yes we did and so now we've got to pull money out of the ira and now they're down about 10 from when we put them in so obviously that's going to be money lost they're trying to figure out how to get them back into an investment

because everybody from what i'm hearing is saying that you've got to pull them back out and put them in a money market uh you don't have to put them in a money market that's not required but you have to pull them out you have to liquidate these because they're traditional iras right no they're rough they're roths they're roth iras yeah for my tax pro he says you

you can't do that and then my my investment dividers is actually an elp and she said yeah that that sounds right yeah you have to pull you have to pull it out but you but what you can do and your smart investor pro should be able to help you with this part what you can do is do what's called a back door roth

and if you you unfollowed your taxes i'm sorry she said that wasn't an option because what we did is we have so i have a company that pays basically i have an s corp and so i get my salary out of there so my business taxes are already done that's already filed our personal is not done yet um she said we weren't able to do a backdoor roth and i'm not quite sure why she leaned towards doing a sep but i can't do a step for 2021 now that it's 20 22.

no less than a hundred okay then you you should be able to do this so hit your smart investor pro again and tell them dave said he thinks you can so really look into it because here's what i think and i might there may be a detail of your situation i don't have yet or i may be missing something in this conversation this but i don't think

i am if you can do a back door roth after you pull this money out which you have to pull it out here's what you would do before you file your taxes you would open an after tax traditional not a pre-test okay and immediately 30 seconds later roll it into a roth

so i can just roll it from traditional to roth yeah from an after tax

traditional not a before tax okay it's an unusual

okay traditional okay but it's an after tax traditional and you roll it then into a roth instantaneously and you could do it all with the same mutual fund that you're in and you know you could do it with the money that's left that you have to pull out you don't even have to go all the way to 6 000 but if you want to add a little to

it you can do that i know you can still do them i just did one the other day well good so i mean i know i know in general it's possible but i but now is there a way to roll the current money that you've got over into that i don't think so i think you just got to pull it out now i'm sitting here with some cash in my hand from

this ira that i over funded

and now i'm gonna do a back door roth instead and you probably are just gonna do back door roths as long as they exist for the rest of your life because you're probably going to make over 200 from now on thank god that's wonderful i'm proud for you peyton is in portland maine hi peyton welcome to the ramsey show hey john how are you guys great man what's up so i have a little bit of a relationship question with my about my parents i'm 20.

and my car i just i'm almost done paying off my car right now um i had an account statement on my counter and my parents saw and they seemed they seemed almost disappointed that i'm paying off the debt they really they're really worried about my credit score but you know i don't know how to explain to them like the plan i'm doing that you guys have tried to before but it just doesn't seem to register and they were really it seems like they were really disappointed i just didn't know how to go about that it kind of took me back um i know in my heart i'm doing the right thing but i want to be able to honor them with doing this because they think i'm being irresponsible so i'm just not sure how to go about dealing with that situation with them how old are you now did you say 20 20 uh 20.

out of college you got a job you're making a living now they do get a vote because right now you live in their house and so if they tell you to be home at nine o'clock and to fold your socks a certain way you live in their house and they can do that but when it comes to how i'm taking care of my money my dad has opinions which is fine well and good but me and my wife make decisions financially for my household and you're making your own money you're making your own job you're paying off your own debts and they can tell you hey we think you should do this and really care about this loan and what thank you so much for your wisdom i'm really grateful for that i have a relative that tells me how i should vote and they're wrong [Laughter] so they don't get a vote okay and what you what you if man if you can learn this at 20 that people who love you and care about you are going to give you bad advice and they still love you and care about you and you're going to be able to move on with your day man if you could i didn't figure that out until i was like 35.

okay a great gift man i sometimes when i'm trying to explain a hard concept you know if i'm talking to somebody and i'm i i just don't have the words to explain it i'll hand them a book and say this guy or a podcast this guy does it better than me she this this brilliant doctor

she writes this better than i can explain it right now and so maybe if you say hey if you don't fully understand i get it here's a copy of total money makeover read this this guy there's a better job explaining millionaires that's right just do a better job of explaining it to me yeah that's not a bad thing to do either and go this is what i'm doing

and if this helps you it might be interesting to you it might not you may just want to stand back and not agree and that's okay too you can do whatever you want to do i'm just i'm going to be going forward with this thing and it's a smile and a gentle word no fights that's right and no there's no uh acid in the air no passive aggressive in

the question of the statement just be there this is the ramsey

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ramsey right now to get their free white paper start your cfo career

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage sherman and christina

are with us welcome guys how are you thank you for having us we're great we're great we're excited to be here we're honored to have you where do you live in gainesville florida oh very cool

well good to have you thanks for joining us all the way to nashville to do a debt-free screen yes all the way to nashville cool how much did you pay off 203 000 in 27 months way to go

wow and your range of income during that time started right around a hundred thousand dollars and up to about 215.

wow sherman did you go back to work that's a pretty big jump man i had to get to work that's right what do you guys do for a living we own a gym in gainesville florida dynasty crossfit then we also own a marketing firm framework now okay you own a marketing firm too so what drove this income to double in two years i mean two and a half years yeah um the marketing firm

sort of took off the gym was our main thing for years and then we started the marketing firm so you know both of them just sort of continue to rise as we get more focused on paying off the debt finally how that works funny how that works yeah i need some money i wonder where i can find something yeah that's good very good way to go you guys what kind of debt was

the 203 um mostly student loans his student loans mainly student loans i guess they were my student loans apparently apparently that's the worst i was like i thought they were ours but they were ours so mainly student loans uh we paid off a car we cashflowed a few things but mainly the bulk of it was student loans wow undergrad graduate school so yeah what's your degree in um

i got a undergrad degree in psychology then i went to a master's program in biomedical science but not really utilizing those now so i don't know jim

probably inform some of the decisions maybe you realize it or not way to go guys yes good job very fun so what started this journey uh 27 months ago this ramsey idea yeah so we've known about ramsey for the entire time we've been married when we first got married we took um fpu and that sort of gave us sort of gave us the foundations to not go into more debt

but we weren't ready to be serious about it for a few years a couple years ago so you're flunked yeah yeah yeah okay

hey i wouldn't say we flunk we we definitely had we got to see i think we had to get incomplete tonight i guess yeah we just didn't want to accrue more debt so we were more aware of you know not you know working side hustles working multiple jobs especially even during pregnancies um we were very much aware like this this is something we owe and we need to pay

it back we just didn't know how god would multiply our income in such a way that from what we were making to what we're making now um until about two years ago when we heard a word from the lord um and we're like you know our

obedience he he has to take care of it so this is where we're at we're only making a hundred grand it seems like an enormous mountain and we're just going to have to chip away at it and at some point he's kept away at it and also on the income took off the income he's faithful he his provision is amazing and it's through that that um all

these opportunities started becoming about and we were able to tip even further amen and amen way to go you guys cool very cool so all right so you you you get re-energized yes years later after fpu 27 months ago you say all right game on what was the conversation do you remember that i mean you said you got a word from the lord right so there was a a moment in time that something just kind of was a wake-up call there's a milestone

there where it turned right yeah definitely so it's funny because we were actually up here visiting our good friends the coaliots up here um in nashville and i thought i had seen you all out here yeah yes we've been here numerous times people you're hard to forget yeah i mean ladies tell me that so thank you dave oh yeah listen i'm not standing by you in the photos all i'm saying that's all i'm saying um

so we were up here and

up here on vacation and those student loan people they called me and that just was that while you're in a lobby no while we were up here on vacation oh in nashville and that just put that i don't know why that just turned the knife turned the knife and i was like no more yeah yeah yeah all right so you go and sit down you sit down with christine

and say so uh for the next couple years we're not gonna buy anything yeah um we're gonna have to duct tape the kids to the floor because they might have to go too like we're gonna get after this were you all in yeah yeah she was all lit i've always been all in yeah she's all in i would say that's what i'm defender but i'm also all in tonight

she is the spender but she was definitely all in she was like if you want to do it let's do it i was just like all right i guess i really have to do it and i started hoping she would say yeah maybe she was like all right let's do it because i feel like if you're caught by got to do something at that point it's a conviction

and it's just through our obedience that he's going to um it's the same trip you're walking around out here in the lobby yeah yeah that'll get on you too yeah absolutely and we did that intentionally i remember saying well we have to go and it kept us um it's a drive-through there's the picture all right i'm not i wasn't losing my mind all right i'm in the picture yeah

it kept us motivated it's something that that um once god calls us to do something i mean it's easy for us we don't have there is no no like the consequences there is no reward to disobedience put me in coach don't put me in this is what we have to do and then now we get to watch him um provide and make a way so it's it was easier for me

because it's like all right god hands off you work your your

um your miracles and your whatever you need us to do we're in we're in well i mean you doubled your income during this time so yeah he was obviously showing off he did he showed up and showed out and i know i know it's a big way florida's been been different in throughout this but you got to say that 24 months ago running a gym also in the world your heart's got to start being a little bit faster right absolutely you were absolutely you were exposed right you did but we

that's all we needed so our faith was strong enough and our children are amazing like they're they're gung-ho about anything too and when we all sat down as a family we came up with a budget there was no going back there i mean we were all in and we knew that god was we knew it would be hard but i knew that um it would be rewarding as well

so we focused more on serving others and doing what we could for other people we also taught a fpu class during that time just to wow stay focused oh thank you yeah what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is i would say you have to have a budget you have to stick to the budget and for me one of the biggest things is your spouse

if you're married your spouse needs to be on board with you because that made it even easier for me like christina stays at home doesn't work outside of the home she homeschools our three kids so it could have been easy for her to say i'm you know i'm not going to be on board with this i got to take care of these kids but she was like

if you want to do it i'm totally on board so having a budget and then having a spouse that fully supported me that made it that much better and i think it for me it was easier because um not easy but it

was a lot easier to understand this is not our money we have to pay it back i'm not mad at the student loan people we he signed the paperwork i mean we owe them so it's you know it is a commitment and back to it's your [Music]

it's not that it's something we we wanted to and in marriage that was one thing he he always you know brought up was hey i have this mountain of debt you know from school and i'm like it's ours it really is and that's that honestly was the point i was trying to get to yeah you're very very healthy we're poking fun at it but very good very well said that's very well done we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you that's the next chapter in your story for sure uh that outrageous generosity so you're on track to be able to do all of that what are the kiddos names and ages we have judah here he's eight we have ariana she's ten we have caden he's 13.

all right beautiful beautiful good-looking family well done you guys we're proud of y'all thank you good work you're amazing people well done 203 000 paid off in 27 months making 100 to 215.

sherman christina cayden ariana and judah count it down let's hear a debt-free scream here we go in three

two one we're debt-free

[Applause] yeah so cool that's how it's done man

that's how it's done 27 months later game on that is that is a different kind of game on when you just decide something that's when you draw the line the same i'm with my family you will never call me again i'm done with you i'm done don't you're bothering me i'm out the borrower's slave to the lender and i don't like it anymore i'm out this is the ramsay show [Music]

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so

dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us america open phones at

talking about your 825-5225 your mental health anxiety we're talking about jobs and careers we're talking about money marriage kids life it shows up right here on the ramsey show andrew's with us andrew is in st petersburg florida hi andrew what's up

hi dave how's it going better than i deserve how can i help

well um thanks for taking my call i've been looking forward to doing this for a while now um i have a large question but i'm hoping you can help me out um i work right now in insurance i make

pretty good money i'm worried you're gonna ask me how much i don't know exactly because i haven't looked at my last years but i know it's well above

120 it's probably about 150 for the year

okay i love the company i work for i love the people i work with it's you know it's been a blessing um and i've been here for about four years now um however i did start a business

renting electric bikes here in saint pete florida and it's obviously something i'm a little bit more passionate about something i love to do and i'm just really nervous right now it's kind of part time if you will i run it

with my cousin so we kind of balance out the workload and then my brother is like our full-time employee so it's sort of passive income with me working it on the weekends and i've got i'm just trying to figure out kind of how or if i should

transition i never want to give up my book of business with what i do now in insurance because i've worked really hard for it and now it's at a really good point where i could you know go to more of a part-time place and start focusing more on just renewing my book and not so much on new sales but it's still scary to like make the jump you know from going to being sale

sales you know new business every month and renewing to kind of shifting my focus onto this business um what'd you make on the business what's that how much you make on the business last year oh well it's it's new it's all right we haven't given any money

no no i mean i mean honestly no i don't need to quit doing anything do you make money yeah that's true um it's definitely not as much as yeah i'm making now or you're not making any money so it's definitely not as much yeah i i wouldn't have any problem with you taking a pay cut if it's something you really want to do and you enjoyed your life but you right now you're making zero yeah so you've got to get this you got to get the business profitable and i want to see it i want to see it putting 100 000 in your pocket right yeah because it's not i mean it does make maybe a few thousand a month but definitely not you know in your pocket in your pocket after everybody's paid after the brothers paid after you split with your cousin new bikes they replaced the ones that the drunks tore up and all the stuff you have to do in that business right right now once you get it to a hundred here's the second thing you need to do before you make the jump but don't even talk to it don't talk about quitting your other thing until you get this up to 100.

you're kind of coasting around in this conversation and i need you to for your sake i want you to be very very precise because if you don't you're going to make a mistake so when you get to 100 i see two problems with this business

okay that that is that threatens the

future of it one is competition as soon as bird put a scooter on the street three other people did and if you were all in on bird scooters you'd be screwed right now because the competition would have run you out of business and electric bikes are another version of bird scooters okay the second thing is this is a very

technology-driven

app-driven social type movement product and if it suddenly goes if it's no longer it's it's it works right now because it's cool it's cool it's it's in vogue it's the

cool thing to do in five years it's not gonna be the cool thing to do anymore so in addition to having a plan on how you're gonna survive the competition you need a plan on how you're going to uh add other types of product lines that do

not falter as quickly when they're not cool anymore when you have a fad product when the fad's over your business is over if you don't have another product and so in addition to electric bicycles uh you know i mean if you think about look back five years five years ago no bird scooters no electric bicycles they just showed up boy i mean this is it and so uh something else is going to show up they'll go it's as fast

and it's just it's not going to be cool that's what i mean by cool it's something you run a fad product line something in a high rate of change industry you got to have a plan for where you're going next not i'm going to do this for 20 years with like bicycles because 20 years from now you won't be doing electric bicycles i promise you and this is a strange call uh andrew

because 99 percent of time someone calls it's i'm a nurse and i cannot do this anymore i'm a teacher and i cannot i'm a police officer and i can't the way you talked about your insurance company and the p you like it you love these people and so here's the thing there is this weird pressure going along around people who are 25 and younger if you're working for a company that somehow you're failing that

if you're not quitting your job to go do your quote unquote own thing um that you're somehow less than i call that's not true bullcrap on that if you love your job you're making 150 grand and you're good at it you're building it there is nothing wrong with staying there and crushing and hustling it there with with your company man so the third option is uh stay in

the job permanently

do the things i'm talking about with the business and get the business so profitable that you just staff it and run it and you're an absentee investor that's what i like you're not an operator hire some high school kids to run it for well he's got he's got the brother in there starting it right first full-time employee so we can put some other employees in there as

the profitability goes and let's run that up but you still are going to have to look at how you're going to double and triple the revenues you're still going to have to look at how you can diversify your product lines because you're in a very i don't know i don't know the other proper word to use other than fad you're in a very v in vogue product in a high

rate of change industry and you're going to get your head taken off with that because you're going to just wake up one more it's going to be over and and you're sitting there with a whole bunch of bikes 75 electric electronic bikes yeah i mean it's just that's going to be a problem and it's not going to be happening tomorrow it's not going to happen next year

but five years from now i mean you know you may be using hollywood you may be using holograms to book the deal you know i mean i don't know so all right rose is in tampa hi rose how are you thank you for taking my call dave and dr john sure what's up can you hear me okay yeah so my question is i have i currently have two rental properties

and one of them will be sold this summer that'll be out of question but i have a town home

that i it's empty right now tenants just moved out um and i'm wondering if i should sell it or keep it long-term what's it worth about 217. is it paid for i have 45 000 which i'm going to be paying off so let's pile up 250 000 let's pretend you don't own the town home and i just put 250 000 cash stacked up in the middle of your dining room table

what type of investment are you going to do with that are you going to buy rental property are you going to invest in mutual funds what are you going to do with that everything else i have is in the market

and so for me real estate was this

is just not having 100 of everything in the market do you want to buy with your 250 000 in the middle of the table do you want to buy a piece of real estate

i'm unsure that's why i'm calling okay there's not a wrong answer

yes is the right answer and no is the right answer um because it's what you want to do real estate is not a bad investment this is not the perfect time to sell if you should be holding i'm not selling mine i got a bunch of it and i'm keeping it and i'm just smiling that it's worth a lot more and that the rents are going up on all of

it i'm just smiling uh but if uh if you are sick and tired of real estate you there's no law that says you have to own real estate so you can sell it but if you would buy more real estate with that money then you would keep this if you would sell it if you would not buy more real estate with it then you would sell this that's how

i help analyze it help me walk through the emotions in my situations [Music]

hey it's john deloney co-host of the ramsay show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsay show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to ramseysolutions.com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

i'm dave ramsey your host dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today

as we answer your questions about your money your relationships your mental health your anxiety your job your career anything having to do with your life marriage parenting it's all here it's called the ramsay show the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five joe is in st louis hi joe

how are you hey dave how are you doing today better than i deserve what's up i i called you

i discovered you about seven years ago on the radio and i'm 71 years old my finances are all my life been up and down and i can tell you that i paid my mortgage off yesterday and i'm debt-free

too late it's never too late to learn

and i learn from you and that's what i called you about i'm a little nervous now but uh i took 99 of your advice i didn't do it all but i took 99

and i want to tell you and other people out there it's never too late yeah so you're starting here you start in your mid 60s and you paid off your house when you're 71. i'm so proud of you 71 i paid it off yesterday that's awesome what's this house worth oh about 150. look at you with a paid for house i've been up and down in finances and income all my life and i live pay paycheck to paycheck

until you and i just wanted to say thank you well thank you you're an inspiration sir uh you're i appreciate it honored you called never too late and never too late so what's your house worth you think you said 150 100 you said 150 150 that was yeah yeah and and

still working yeah i'm retired but i work part-time

okay and uh but my finances have never been the way

they are now just because of you so you not only got a paid for house that has gives you a sense of peace but more than that more importantly you have a sense that you're under control oh yes i've never been under control in all these years with my finances they've been up and down i had a lot of things i lost a lot of things but

but you are now right now you are now i'm sitting on the banks of the mississippi river and i'm looking at bald eagles flying up and down the river right now life is good much better than that thank you for your gratitude my brother that's awesome that's just beautiful just beautiful thank you so much robert is in modesto california hi robert welcome to the ramsay show hi dave thank

you for taking my call sure what's up um actually i want to listen to your podcast maybe three times in the start of this week wow i'm surprised i actually got through to talk to you welcome to the gang man welcome in brother tell me about two months now that i needed to listen to you um we're kind of

in the wiper i don't know if we're on the same page here she's 48 i'm 54 i

make 100 000 a year just over that i was a paramedic um here

in california and we are 300 000 up on equity in our

house i have about six hundred thousand in 401k 75 000 in cars and um

about 30 000 in debt that's a student loan and a credit card my wife wants to go to a larger home because we are small at home four of us here 19 year old 15 year old me and the wife and we're just running out of room here she wants to go to a larger home to me that's a larger payment you know a little less stress on

the on us space space-wise a little more stress on us financial wise she advises if i do the ramsay thing then uh you know we'll find the money type of stuff is it a bad idea to go to a larger home i'm sorry the last part about the ramsey thing say that again she says if we start doing the seven steps and doing the ramsey method that

it um it'll all work out that the the the more payment is not going to be that big a deal because we'll find the money somewhere else the baby steps aren't pixie dust brother yeah the problem is the problem is that the the ramsey thing is going to cause you to not go get a home because you have other debt you've got to clean up before you talk about doing that 30 000 worth okay

you don't move up and home until you get that mess cleaned up the the consumer debt that you've got

right and you're running out of room in your house you got a 19 year old that will probably be taken off soon you got a 15 year old that's just got a couple of years left i mean this sounds rather relatively temporary right yeah you were running out of room 10 years ago yeah now you're not running out of room now they're running out of the house yeah we've been in

this house for 20 years that sounds like more of the issue than the space issue because y'all want to go do something i don't mind you all moving to a different home even a more expensive home i would not do it because you're running out of room because your kids are about to leave in an eye blink i'm with john on that i would not do it until

you get your debts paid off that you have other than the house and then that would entail that you are working the ramsey baby steps that you have your fully funded emergency fund your debt free except the house and then when you make the move on the house your payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate

and then we plan to work extra and pay that house off sooner than 15 years because that's what people that become millionaires do that would be the ramsay plan not um

we're gonna move into a higher house payment and then we're gonna start seven baby steps and that'll make it work out that's right no lady that is not the ramsey plan sorry and robert make sure that you don't have three hundred thousand dollars of imaginary equity burning a hole in your pocket yeah a lot of folks feel like oh my house is worth this so now i have to go x y

and z because when you sell in an up market you also have to buy in enough that's right that's right so hang up man i'm a hang on to it man that that itch might not be scratched by just spinning that money that you don't have yeah so i i i think we need to redefine why we're moving you can't be the two kids because they're not going to be

there and say i've lived here for 20 years i want to do something else that's great that's okay that's wonderful that's okay that's not a bad thing but we're running out of room that you should have said that 10 years ago that's right because you were out of room then um if you're going to use that one it sounds like you'll y'all feel like you have a 300 000 blank check

and you don't

that's the part i'm worried about i think she went out to some open houses and saw some nice cabinets in the kitchen no that's never happened at our house

oh jeez it's like i'm just gonna go to the car lot and look at them that's right at the bentley lot i'm just gonna go drive the drive the maserati that's all i'm gonna do yeah i'm just going to drive the new raptor would you look at that screen i don't know how people make it without a screen that size yeah it's uh we all do this is what we're saying not just your wife

but i think she uh i i i might accuse sharon ramsey of doing similar things like she goes to some friend's house or to an open house or i'm just going to stop by and look i want to see what people are doing in kitchens these days suddenly the ramseys are like oh or we're tearing the whole freaking kitchen out yeah and which usually means that 24 months

after we do that we're moving then you're moving but yeah so yeah this is a this is an ailment that is common to lots of households robert this is the ramsay show

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look i love real estate and i want you to have a house but i don't want a house to have you that's why you need to get in touch with churchill mortgage to make sure you do this right these guys are awesome they'll help you get on a smarter mortgage plan because they're committed to doing what's right for you that means they check in every year with free consultations to help

you stay on the right plan they show you how to save money and interest so you can build wealth faster they walk you through the total cost of your loan so you can make the best choice basically they care that's why we call them ramsey trusted you can achieve debt-free home ownership and churchill is here to help go to their site churchillmortgage.com ramsey to start your approval or get more information [Music]

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well real estate market's pretty hyped up right now if you hadn't noticed the buyers are feeling the pressure to buy the sellers are going i can get a lot of money it's not amateur hour out there don't get me wrong rates probably won't get any cheaper than they are right now uh doesn't give you a reason to green light stupid okay you don't necessarily need to get caught up in

the hype the flow the tidal wave whatever you want to call this or you don't have to get caught up in offering way over asking price because you're desperate don't get caught up in the hype you know you got to get your head out of the craziness and get a second look at the facts are you debt-free do you have a down payment are you putting it on a 15-year where

the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay only if the answer is a big fat yes are you ready to buy but if you're ready to buy we can help you with this once you've answered the questions it's time to look at some old cold hard numbers you can use our free mortgage calculator

to see exactly what your home ownership options are based on your budget real ramsey stuff so go to ramseysolutions.com

click free tools use the mortgage calculator it'll tell you what to do ramsey solutions.com click free

that's a keyword right there free tools our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free free samples free shipping new promos all the time a great american company blinds.com always use ramsey as a promo

code it's magic it'll get you the best deal all right today's question comes from megan in wyoming megan writes i've been married for 14 years and due to anger issues i need to leave my marriage and take our children with me i'm struggling with how to pay bills and find a place for him to live i'm in the first year of a great career but my pay is not yet consistent

i earn 50 000 a year and my husband makes about the same amount i feel like i need to be financially responsible for the house we own together and an apartment for him to move to when we separate how should i plan financially to be ready to leave him

if you have come to a situation in your marriage where you are not safe and you decide to terminate your marriage because somebody has made it your home and your relationship inhabitable you are not responsible for finding them a place to live that's their responsibility yeah this is hard man buddy of mine that does divorce recovery many many years ago here on the air said divorce changes a marriage into a business transaction

this is no longer about you taking care of him far from your need to take care of him you're having to end this because he can't control himself so his rage and anger issues so

um time for the mad little boy to grow up and get his own apartment in his own place that's right yeah so um yeah you know

that feels um like an abuse abused language exactly what it sounds like like i need to take care i need to make sure he's okay to keep him calm right while i do this big big thing yeah just so i go over here and do all the adult stuff i need to keep him calm that's right and uh and or uh i'm worried about him even i love him even though

i don't you know and that that's all that's all abused language right abuse so megan you need to get yourself a excellent attorney who will walk things through with you you need to get a couple of women in your life that will walk through this with you and you can bounce decisions off of get a good pastor a counselor that can walk with you you're going to need some support here

and you trying to make sure all the teas are crossed and eyes are dotted including where he's going to live and how he's going to eat and what kind of car he's going to drive you're taking on too much taking on too much

when someone leaves and we you call them the ex-husband it's because they're not the husband anymore that's right yeah that's why we call them ex your responsibility for how they choose to live and eat is no more x's used to be not anymore right your problem now over that's what that means so it's a is a clear line there of your responsibility like when he walks out

the door with the suitcases that line is following him correct and it's going to follow him as he drives down the street like some kind of a bad progressive commercial or something right but yeah and and that's okay that that's where your line of responsibility ends is right at his butt as he leaves so let's take him out of the picture mom needs to just simply circle back to

the baby steps right now she's got her and i don't she doesn't see how many kids let's say she's got two kids and she makes 50 dollars then she needs to say can i afford this home on fifty thousand dollars can i afford the four walls bills and transportation and food can i take care of my necessities right as i make this this transition and i would even go as far to say

you need to take care of yourself if you're not safe whether or not you can afford that house it might mean that you got to move to an apartment for a season and the house gets sold that's right yeah so here's the last part of that that you know that's where i was going to is i'm going to make the number up but i'm not far off as

i have worked over 30 years with these situations where there's a divorce mom wants the lady wants to stay in the home in this case she makes the same amount of money usually she makes less statistically right okay not saying that's right or wrong it is wrong obviously if she does less she should make less but if she does the same she ought to make the same

so uh anyway she's got the same amount of money here but the household income is getting ready to be cut in half i need to the kids world is rocked because of the marriage ending dad's not going to be in the house the kid's world is rocked the kid's world is rocked and i need to provide a safe place stable environment for my kids i don't want to give them any more change than

the change that's already occurring so i don't want their school or their friends or their bedroom to be upset so i'm going to keep a house i can't afford right and i gotta tell you that happens a lot it does and instead of you getting a fresh start after this you're starting in the hole after this but now it may not be the case and maybe you can afford

the house it's okay but john's advice there to where you say i'm gonna really look at the budget and decide can i afford on my income to keep

this house otherwise the house needs to be sold as part of the divorce here's what it is it's i want to prop up this picture of family life yep and i'm just gonna i'm just going to cut him out of it but i'm going to keep this picture propped up and you need to know when you file for divorce everything's different yeah that old picture is oh

and those kids are not better off in a house you can't afford in your stress in their old bedroom that's right than they are in a brand new apartment that you can afford

uh and your stress level is way down and you can be emotionally present for them because you're not crying over the bills after they get a new environment can help them actually make a psychological shift that now we're in a new world that's actually helpful sometimes yeah a visual of that's not bad that's right yeah so it's not it's not always the best thing to keep the house yeah it's not sometimes it's okay most of

the time it's not it's not so you you're not telling you have to sell it but i'm telling you got to put it on the table that that's a possibility and i'm heartbroken for you megan yeah that's awful should be thinking about you awful awful awful awful open phones at

triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money um shane on facebook says can you distinguish the difference between enabling and helping yeah uh helping helps enabling enables i i think

wow did you go to school for that yeah that was that was an entire class i paid for 900 an hour um i if i'm helping

somebody i am walking alongside them as they get better they improve their life they get closer towards their goal enabling makes me feel better not them right so enabling helps me think i'm doing something makes me feel like i'm doing something to support somebody they're actually not been not only not benefiting from it their life is getting worse because of my my participation in their life enabling is a drunk gets a drink right

he feels better and you think you helped but you didn't you harmed helping is i'm gonna pick you up and go to aaa with you the first meeting helping is i'm going to embrace suck with you and we're going to go together and get this thing messed straightened up and so um but enabling

makes feels like you did something you called it helping but it allowed the person to continue in the destructive behavior enablings for me helpings for them maybe that's the best way to say that enabling is helping is often labeled as tough love enabling is often labeled as love by the person who's getting the gift that shouldn't be getting it

that's good all right i feel better now i do too i feel totally helped i was i wasn't enabled i feel enabled but i wasn't enabled but it didn't happen not right here on the air this is the ramsey show

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[Music] dr john dolone ramsay personality is

my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money in the lobby of ramsey solutions right here on the debt-free stage is none

other than gary and jill welcome you guys thank you we're excited to be here well we're honored to have you where do you guys live um so we're from alexandria virginia right outside of dc yeah welcome to nashville we uh we brought the sun out for you today thank you for that yeah it's a nice day out there if you're a duck in this rain but uh oh my gosh welcome so uh down here to do a debt-free scream how much you paid off 658 thousand three hundred and eleven dollars oh how long did this take six years all right i love this and your range of income during this time 142 thousand and 272 000.

for a living i'm so i'm a teacher

and i'm a certified public accountant and owner of steward solutions ah very good very good so what do you what do you teach i teach first grade um with dcps in right in washington dc yeah good for you yeah very cool you are you've had a boring last 24 months yeah i've been really bored wow well the kids have never been the problem it was always the parents

and the administrators that's the only people we've ever had to worry about yeah way to go you guys very cool all right i'm guessing with these numbers six hundred fifty eight thousand and six years you paid off your house i wish no they're in dc six six hundred thousand it's a garage apartment right yeah you can't buy much with 650 in dc i know i know but

i thought oh no what guy

would you do richard what'd you do

i mean we had a wars a line of credit on our home um 218 000 was credit cards

uh 162 000 was student loans

and then just a bunch of like miscellaneous debt

you're a cpa you're 200 dollars in credit card debt it was bad explain this to america

we were having a lot of fun

and thank you

oh my god yeah our our lifestyle was out

of control and you know like you said 80

of you know building wealth is behavior and our behaviors were out of whack with our income our income yeah oh

my goodness wow okay so um how long have you all been married um this will be seven years in june yeah

so you did dismiss before marriage really yes we had two messes and then we made it one big mess when we got married

it was really nice that's so beautiful so sweet it's so romantic yeah very special i mean you guys get married and it's like you must have been thinking everything's great and then all of a sudden you're like one you're in and you're like holy crap so when when did when did you realize i don't i don't want i don't want to put i don't want to put words in your mouth tell us what happened that's pretty much what happened so we got married in june of 2015.

um you know then we like continued our frivolous lifestyle for about six months and going on vacations and just like kind of doing whatever we wanted having fun being the like the goal um which we did but then we started to merge our finances six months later and gary actually you know came to

me and was like this is really a problem we have way too much debt and i

was not agreeing with him i was like this is normal everyone has student loans everyone has cars everyone has

that was like that was bad but um all right gary i'll give you 200 000 credit cards but listen listen right i'll give him that yeah i was like that that is bad um but i was like a big mile person so i'm like well think of how many miles work i was bad so give us our own airplane yeah

wow so gary um brought financial peace to me i it took me a little while to get on board but when he you know um he was really the leader of merging our finances because i'm like i don't want to talk about money i don't want to do it you're the accountant you're the cpa make this go away gary yeah just like fix it whatever you do you have the degree fiction i don't know i teach first grade i love you you're amazing

you teach first grade so awesome right you're a cpa right yeah and you had 600 thousand dollars in just consumer debt exactly this is incredible so i'm trying to help the little people now i have a whole lot about it but but yeah so then she laid it all out for me so you went through financial peace at a church together um so actually i read the total money makeover book

first and that really just like blew my mind and then i was hooked on everything right from there and then i found the at-home financial piece oh okay it was actually like dvds yeah and back in the day yeah yeah convinced her too 2015 when people had dvd players yeah kind of convinced her to um you know go through the program with me and we kind of eased into

it it was not a you know i wish it was like you know right away but it took us probably the first you know 12 to 18 months of the six year journey to really click and get on the same page and what was your best fight

oh probably the cutting the credit card i feel like i really couldn't deal with that yeah that was i mean we had 28 credit cards

28 yeah and it was bad yeah you know

when we started doing the debt snowball and you are giving america hope yeah that's why we're here we just we give everybody we started off if you guys can do this by god anybody can do it that's

amazing i love you the psychology behind the last one getting hurt

i've had people i used to cut them up at this on the stage after an event and sign books for hours and i've had people cry they would just weep when we would cut up their probably

about this card since i was in college like it's an old girlfriend yeah that's oh my god yeah it's hilarious oh man you guys are fun i'm so proud of you because what you've done is so big it's so herculean and so there had to be a moment in time so you said there it took about a year 18 months to get real serious and get it dialed in

and then we're like cut that last card now we're game on and then there had to be another moment where the uh momentum shifted and you went like hey we're going to win this where was that i mean we so our debt snowball had like 54 items on it yeah um there's a lot of yeah um 28 credit cards yeah i think once like after the first two years

and we and we got like a third of the way through the list momentum started picking up and we started doing stuff that you know like working side jobs and selling stuff out of the house and

about that time i got my cpa license so i started doing you know tax returns and and i joined um ramsey preferred coaching and started coaching other people how to win with money and it was really cool to you know do something i was passionate about but use that side income to speed up our progress that's cool well and you got a story i mean you can tell people that stories like me telling stories going broke

you know i mean it's like you know hey i know you i know you think your twenty six thousand dollars in credit card debt is bad but let me just tell you let me just i couldn't tell you about that so have you had the moment where your your teacher check and your business check is deposited and no payments you have no payments yeah yeah we have no problem

we have a mortgage but we don't have any consumer debt payments that's why it looks great you guys are amazing you're so such a powerful thing you've done i mean i mean it's such an extreme transformation yeah when we first got married and you know she just threw the the finances at me and was like here you go and i had a lot of stress and anxiety

because i i was do i was living and breathing it every day and um you know put a lot of weight on me and just to have her agree to come in with me and work together and share the burden with me the last six years uh it really like helped our marriage and made us closer yeah so powerful congratulations you all too very very powerful well

we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you you're going to be there before you know it you can do this you can do anything man this is so amazing so amazing and you're a neat couple and thanks for letting us cry with you there for a moment because it just takes your breath away but what you've done is amazing that's that's the story is the size of

the mountain you climbed all right 658 000

paid off in six years of that over two hundred thousand credit card debt making 142 to 272. count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're

wow you are free i love it no more excuses america they just took them away from you ding ding you thought you couldn't do it they did it there it is

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our scripture of the day james 14 4 you do not even know what will happen tomorrow what is your life you are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes lillian dixon said life is like a coin you can spend it any way you wish but you can only spend it once

how you gonna do it what are you gonna do this is the ramsay show dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money leanne is in canada hi leanne how are you hi i'm doing well how are you guys great how can we help well thank you first of all for taking my call my husband's actually an avid daily listener

and follower of your plan and he got me hooked on it by playing the podcast on our honeymoon last year and then gave me the total money makeover as a like a light beach read he's like a real romantic it's the least romantic honeymoon i've ever heard of that's awful it actually was it was a great way to start our marriage so it worked out nice very good

it must have been episodes that me and george were on go ahead oh there you go

um so we have no debt besides our house which we owe about 330 000 on

um we made it our personal goal to try to pay it off within five years was possible and then we bought it in 2019 so we have about three years left if we are to fulfill our goal um we have a fully funded emergency fund right now but my question is about a decision that i have to make primarily by the 10th of march right now i'm a 23 year old licensed practical nurse who um like i signed up for school online to get my registered nurse through a university in alberta i'm finishing

three courses by the end of march and needs to sign up for the new courses by the tenth i have about two years of full-time school left if i'm to continue

the issue is that i unfortunately got fired due to the mandates up here in canada and could potentially lose my nursing license um and i'm not really sure what the future of nursing is going to hold in the next few years so to speak um so i

don't know if it's going to be worth it for me to keep taking the courses if i should work harder than now or casually or even if i should be taking them at all because we're able to cash full of my courses with my husband's income and then a little bit of my own but i'm not totally sure if we'll be able to reach our goal paying off the house that soon if i do school on top of it so i'm not familiar with

the overarching issues in in uh are the are the details i should say of

uh why you were fired but i'm guessing that you uh chose medical freedom you wanted to decide what happens with you and and they said you have to do something regarding covey that you didn't want to do that's correct yeah okay and is that an industry-wide thing i mean she you said take your nursing license

because you choose not to be vaccinated is that what you're saying so that's a potential that they've sort of been rumoring around and i won't know that until probably like the 24th of march is when they're expecting to rule out that mandated government yeah because they you know yeah and our um the totalitarianism of that is just shocking yeah i i can't imagine

that they would lose the force they would i mean i've been surprised before so well they they've lost their entire trucking industry yeah on the same exact issue yeah they shut the trucking industry down because truckers aren't they're not working in canada because of this exact same thing and if all the nurses or a portion of the nurses don't work now um and they're willing to do that on on

the issue of a vaccine or on the issue of the power is really what it is but um oh my gosh wow well medical freedom is a

big deal uh being able to make your own choices is a big deal so you're i think i'm hearing woven into this narrative that you're saying uh if that's how it's going to be i'm not in nursing

kind of yeah that's kind of my overarching yeah they're not they're not going you're not going to acquiesce is what you're saying yes okay then you've got to choose a different career and until you know that i wouldn't spend a bunch of money on further classes i'd complete the ones you're in and you can restart the classes next semester can't you if this blows over

yes yeah i could technically and it does

work with the online system that i could start them sort of any time but the one issue is because i'm signed up in the courses already it's a program that times out in i think it's seven years okay and i

think if you want to if you let me ask you this because i i don't know how this works in your particular situation but most colleges most universities have a drop ad system that there's so many days into the course you can drop it and get a full refund right

okay could you sign up for it and how many days down into march or into april can you still drop that course and get your money back yeah check with your advisor on that and you i mean this what's what's the term here i don't know what this is in canada is it three years for the for the program you have two years left i'm sorry you have two years left yeah okay and you've got a seven year clock you're not gonna hit that clock you're gonna be fine

i think you're fine there um i i heard another issue which is this

you and your husband have been gung-ho gazelle intense and you created this plan this idea that we're gonna have this thing paid off in day x and that is let's let's take the the mandates off the table for a second and you want to get get it paid off here and you want to complete your nursing degree well it's actually going to cause them to be able to pay

it off because when she completes that or pay will go up it'll go up that's right so it's it's six and a half dozen another i think you have a long-term place so take the mandates out if it's just staying in school i'd rather see you go to school and finish this program your pay will go way up over especially over the long term if you stay in nursing

it will that's right that's right you don't lose your license and i'd rather you pay your house off maybe a year later than your plan that you all made up over dinner one night then to yeah then to pause and

put yourself three or four years behind making some major bank if you stay in nursing of course yeah so yeah what i would do is see if your drop add date that's what i call it from the old school your ability to drop the class and get a full refund on this next semester if it is far enough out that you will have news about your license before then um i think you know that you're in an

unfriendly environment for the near term even if they don't take your license agreed yeah agreed and so you may make a decision on nursing in general based on that too and i'm not telling you to do that i'm just saying that you know you've got the long-term okay i'm out of the business because they're going to take my license or they're going to mandate this from now on

and i'm not willing to do it so i just i got to have another career boom i'm out peace out i'm not doing this right i'm you're not gonna violate my medical freedom with totalitarianism i'm gonna vote with my feet i'm out peace out um if that's the case you're already out right yeah um if uh if you think that that this will subside this this political pressure will subside

and you can get back to being a nurse without being vaccinated and protect your medical freedoms um sometime in the future then you would stay on this track and that's that's the judgment i can't make because i don't know what the flip's going on anywhere much less in canada right so let me let me point this out dave and i've had this call on my show several times

once you decide i'm out i will not let somebody tell me what to do with my body i'm out let that be the day you stop stewing about it and be use that energy to go to

something else yeah right you've made your call you've made your decision then talking about it every day being angry about it for the next six months it's just choosing to live shorter it's like true that's true if you quit any job that's exactly right anything any marriage i don't like what's going on in this company i quit and as soon as you walk out the door then keep going dust your sandals off just keep going just keep going

you don't get any more space it doesn't do any good for you right to constantly be looking in your mirror and go well back because i got fired when i was 23 and i don't know why i got fired i probably deserved it but the guy just said pack your effing stuff in this fn box and get the f out of my office now and i went yes sir

you should have showered you know yeah that was it and you know i have no idea what i did but i probably deserved it i mean i was a 23 little fart you know i'm still being mad about it now i dust my sandals off next thing that's right you know i'm not apparently he had a problem you know it's like goodness gracious right you should you got to bathe dave

you got to bathe got a bath i got a shower gotta brush those teeth gotta brush that tooth brush the teeth brush that two that too

what's this hour of the ramsay show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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hey it's john deloney co-host of the ramsay show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsay show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to ramseysolutions.com show

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## 197. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 25, 2021)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:30:27 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today he's also the host of the dr john delony show on podcast and it is exploding

the hockey stick up and to the right the numbers are scary it's um

probably surprising to some of your friends how popular you are it's distressing it's distressing you

are the answering questions about life and about relationships and we'll throw those in with the money questions today folks since he's sitting here beside me we both like getting into the boundary questions and the questions about spouses and relationships and crazy brother-in-laws and all that crap and the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five

five two two five let's start with

maria this hour in chicago hi maria welcome to the ramsay show hi dave very excited to talk to you thank you so much um my question my question is this it's going to be uh well i guess i'll ask the question first and then i'll give you the background okay is it financial is it friendly just financially speaking not not regarding how i feel about home ownership just financially speaking i'm 58 years old i

i have no debt i have fully funded emergency fund i have fully funded retirement both roth and 401k how much i own my how much is in it

there's about a million in it okay good for you well done between the between the both i raised my four kids they're all out of college um i'm single and i my house home's worth about 350 and i paid it off it's paid off okay taxes are really high taxes are really high in illinois

okay but anyway so i i think i want to downsize because i don't need my house anymore cool and i'm not i i so i would go to

like a townhouse okay so just financially just financially speaking it wouldn't be a really bad idea for the next 30 years for me just to rent and the reason why i asked that is because in my heart i've had so much responsibility in my whole life raising my four kids keeping up with my house i wouldn't mind just writing a check every month and just be done and uh finally but everybody's telling me like financially speaking you could sell your house to 350. go buy

something for 250 or less i'm like but then i thought you know then i gotta worry about the house again the windows the roofs the gutters that all that you know [Music] the question no yeah it makes a lot of sense i understand so uh did you raise your kids by yourself or your single mom for the most part i mean i was divorced and they were very very young he was he was so for 20 years for 20 years you've been a she-bear out here fighting

scratching clawing and you've cleaned the gutters you've done whatever it took and you're just tired yes i work overtime every month at work sure i was yeah i thought you were there i thought you were that girl you sound like that girl you sound like a warrior a warrior princess um

so uh well let's first answer your

question then let's try to look for a solution okay the problem with your the good part about your theory is you don't have to screw with stuff because the landlord does so you get all this stuff out of your life the bad part about this is think about what rents have done

in the last 30 years

and think about what they're going to do during the 30 years that we're talking so if you rent instead of owning a paid for property going into retirement you're destabilizing your life because every year your housing cost is going to go up true so that's why it's a bad plan

it's not a bad plan to rent for a short period of time while you're rearranging things or you're in a transitionary stage or something like that but renting for 30 years means you are a

victim of the real estate market instead of riding the wave can i throw

something else at you yep okay so i put down on paper because

this has been like uh stressing me out so i put down on paper my taxes versus all my bills in my house i think you need to move okay but like i i even projected class if i was in the townhouse yeah here's what here's what i want you to here's what i would do if you're my little sister and you're old enough to be my little sister okay oh i'm not not your older sister no i'm

60 so i got you beat but the uh uh

but so uh i would tell you

you don't want to work on crap and you don't want crap breaking and you are a millionaire so you need to go a buy a brand new condominium

where someone does all the exterior maintenance and every appliance and everything inside is brand freaking new you earned it you're a rock star and you need to enjoy a little bit of this money and it's like buying a really nice car that's in really good shape after you've been driving a freaking beater and it breaks down all the time and you know my cars don't break down now back when i had crap cars

because i was trying to get here they broke down all the time but you're you're a warrior girl and you need to you need to enjoy the spoils of the battles that you have

won and that's a million dollars in a 350 000 paid for house you're worth a million and a half dollars i want you to sell this house i want you buy 350 000 condo you may want to move

uh to an area that is that probably

might feel a little bit oh like it's a little too richie rich for you but you need to live there anyway wow okay i'll think about this thank you very good information what do you think john yeah i think that transition when you it's when you're a single mom when you're raising kids and you're putting them through college and you're saving you're working you're doing overtime it's kind of like being gazelle intense for 20 30 years yeah

and suddenly your uh your identity is i'm a sprinter i'm a fighter that's what i do yeah and how do you settle back down you could hear like man for someone who's accomplished what she's accomplished the fact that this decision is keeping her up means it's not about this decision it's about i've got to shift gears and become something else right that's a big big transition yeah what do

you do when you come home from a 20-year campaign

on the road with alexander the great and you're one of his soldiers after 20 years how do you stop fighting and scratching you will

pick from your neighbors with your dog how do you stop it you know and so you know and that's what she is she's a warrior princess that's right and so you know she's been these single moms man they get her done these are some of the toughest people in our planet and um so yeah that that's uh uh

and that's who she is and and she's like i you know she's kind of telling herself good things like i deserve a rest that's right and dave we talk a lot about people making decisions out of stress or out of um anxiousness that's very

similar to making decisions out of exhaustion i'm just i'm done i'm out right i just want to i know the math is bad i know it's going to destabilize me 20 years from now i'm exhausted i don't want to fix anything i'm excited i don't want to talk to any more freaking repairmen i've talked to people who get divorced because i'm just tired of it right so

i love your i love your idea of man right now it feels good it's not going to be good down the road no it's a bad long-term plan yeah yeah i would buy something brand and investigate the builder make sure it's an incredibly high-end high-quality builder

so you are living in a luxury situation in terms of the service you're going to be provided as well as the goods love it you've earned it you're a millionaire way to go this

is the ramsey show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease christian health care ministries or chm is not health insurance

but rather a federally approved exemption to the health care law it's a time-tested model to help take care of your health care costs it's christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills adjusting to a new system of paying for health care was kind of tricky but that's where chm stepped in and they really helped navigate that water with the hospital and the payment want to see if chm is the right fit for your health care needs check out our website at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org

backslash budget it was just such a

relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of

dr john dolone ramsey personality is my

co-host today so if you have questions about life relationships mental health

questions as well challenges even

give us a call anxiety depression all these kinds of things show up here they show up on the dr john delony show all the time as well got a wonderful best-selling book out of one of our quick reads it's an 80-page quick read called redefining anxiety

and of course you can uh email john if you want to have your question answered on the dr john dolone show if you want to be on his podcast it is a a uh a talk radio type podcast

format like this is so email ask john ramsey

solutions dot com ask john ramsey solutions dot com or you

can leave a voicemail at 844-693-3291

or you can get in by calling right now triple eight eight two five five two two five the lines are full but we'll get you in quick as we can our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping new promos all the time and always use the promo code ramsey it's magical it'll save

you money john our question today's question comes from josephine in nebraska what a great name we're on baby step two with about 20 000 dollars in debt left to pay off which will take about 18 months i had an opportunity to pick up a side hustle that's in my sweet spot that would allow us to shave off at least nine months off baby step two when i told my husband about

this his first response oh boy

can you even i can't imagine saying this to our world can you read it can you can you even read it his first response was then i'll have to do everything around the house so in order to avoid an argument i declined the job now the same opportunity's been offered to me again i spoke to him about it and get the same response how do i deal with this selfishness two before i was gonna say i i think my wife

would stab me in the forehead with a fork i mean come on good

god what a child what an immature i don't know man what a child little boy yeah i you're gonna be

miserable you'll be miserable dude until you wake up and learn how to serve other people our greatest joy comes

in serving others it is a paradox

right it doesn't sound like it but you're you're gonna be most happy young man when you learn to serve

and um and by the way this woman is not

gonna you're gonna be doing everything around your house in short order my brother because you're gonna be the only one there buddy the only one there she's uh

or you may not be living that's yeah one of the two you got a fork in your you know you've been duct taped to something when you're asleep you know oh my gosh josephine you got i mean yeah when you're dealing with someone this immature this um unwilling to

to hear your heart on a number of different things man because this is bigger than just paying off this is about it's bigger than housework yes man this is about you finding yourself everything's about him okay uh here's

now all now that we've vented and uh are mad at the little wuss um let's how do you actually fix this i

would say if you're not in a good church and there are good churches and there are toxic misses but find a good church where the people are healthy mentally spiritually emotionally find an

older couple and get them involved in your life and that guy in that older couple will take your husband out in the backyard and explain things to him explain things don't you think yeah i mean or get a good pastor involved or even get to a marriage counselor not now junior birdman here is not going to marriage counseling because he's too cool for school but uh you need to go

and learn how to talk to him about how this is going to end up for him because my experience with this stuff john i'm not i'm i don't have the phds and all this other stuff i've just watched it too often even in our friends group over the years you know you go through the stages of everybody's getting married then everybody's having kids then everybody's getting divorced that's right

and so you know and i've done enough financial coaching over the 30 years that i see this ladies in particular and i don't know it's not sexist i think it's um they they they boil

until they reach a point and then when the switch flips it's off they're done right you can't get them back you can't reel it back in guys will kind of go

out there and then come back and we're back in right but uh you know once she flip once her switch flips uh junior birdman you're in trouble yeah because you will have lost her she will not be you cannot retrace these steps right because she will put up with this and i don't want first i didn't want to or our argument now she's out saying it out loud how do

i deal with this selfishness and then if this just continues and he doesn't get better she's going to have enough and there's nobody can talk her out of it there's no amount of bible teaching about divorce it's going to work she's just going to be done because somebody for the second time has told her i value you and i'd like you to come join us right and somebody in her childhood didn't tell her that

this guy surely didn't tell her that and this is bigger than a job this is somebody saying hey man i see something valuable in you so much come join us and that's what somebody says no to right that's what somebody says i'm gonna go towards where somebody values me right and so josephine you gotta have you gotta get somebody else that you can talk to about this

and because there's bigger stuff here but at the end of the day you're gonna have to have dave you said it i'll say it in a nerdier way you're gonna have to have your or what conversation and you gotta have somebody with some wisdom before you do that otherwise you're gonna react and i don't want it to build up i want you to get some tools to let

this to by incrementally

increase the heat under him instead of you just increasing the heat inside of you and you finally just blow up and the switch flips and you're done right because that's that's what this i i see this a lot yeah and i don't i

don't i don't i understand when the switch flips right when you're dealing with this type of immaturity i get it all you can work on [Laughter] we got one sentence right and we're already through with him how can he get through the dead come good josephine yeah man and can you imagine dylan's sharing this oh i'm just trying to think of saying sheila oh oh oh you don't even want to think about

it what what how a hillbilly woman react to that that would not be good i'm just saying she would you give you a look that would say like chapters no my skin would peel off like indiana jones too it would just all blow off it would melt it would melt off your eyes would blow out of your head yeah like when they when they touched the ark of

the covenant man

yeah josephine i'm so sorry man yeah and whoever this guy's if your wife comes to you and says hey i i've got an opportunity to help i want to help too let your first response be awesome

let's it's going to be some stuff we got to figure out but let's figure it out i will work on this together it does mean i'm going to have to pick up all the housework but let's talk about this yeah you know that's a one way to answer this is like yeah yeah i like sitting on my butt in the recliner

man i'll tell you what oh we do have

we do have a manhood crisis in america real men know how to serve and vacuum and vacuum

that's serving i know it's one thing especially when it's you're dirt on the floor godly

dude i don't do the dishes yes you do they're yours

williams in new york city hey william what's up william william hung up william is married to josephine yes i'm here i'm sorry i was on mute oh that's okay my fault how can we help

dave pleasure for having me i appreciate it um so just kind of sum it up i'm 27 i make

about 70 uh k a year plus stock incentives

i contribute about six percent to a raw 401k been doing it since day one and i also commit uh 10 percent to uh stocks via our employee purchase program um which has a 15 um they all do

discount which is great they all do um i have about 10 in a private uh i had about 15

sorry i had about 25 and see any credit card how much how much do you have in in employee stock um currently about 15 grand cash it out and pay off your debt cash it i'll pay it off yep okay

and dude i wouldn't be putting that much money into that a 15 discount's not that much go back and pull your company stock and pull the charts on it and look how much it moves in a 12-month period of time you'll see 15 so your little discount

could go away and evaporate in about 13 seconds so i'm not playing single

stocks and i'm gonna use that money and get out of debt build your emergency fund hey thanks for the call

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dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today

on the debt-free stage in the ramsey solutions lobby tori and kayla are with us hey guys how are you hey how's it going welcome welcome where are y'all from oh welcome to nashville very cool and all the way up here to do a debt free screen got it how much have you paid off 140 590 dollars and 88 cents

well done how long did that take uh

three years 11 months wow and your range of income during that time started at about 90 and we got it all the way up to uh 175 that last year wow that's impressive

so what kind of debt was the 141 000

mostly student loans uh we had about 120

in student loans and the rest was just miscellaneous credit cards car personal loans and stuff yeah yeah

you were just normal how old are you guys i'm 32 i'm 30. okay

how long you been married four years almost five years in june yeah okay faster than that man so this started this started uh right after you got married then yeah yes right after yeah so what was the story what got you going well back in college uh one of my roommates he gave me your book and so i read it fastest book i ever read and uh

i was just fired up after that and so i come to her i can't remember if it was immediately after i read it but sometime i came to her like man look at this we got to do this we're going to do this and she's kind of like yeah

i always planned on doing that so after that we just we got started a couple months after i read the book put a plan in place and got started so you got married and went after it yep and really didn't have to talk anybody into it didn't have to talk about it she was just waiting for you to come to your senses i guess so

yep exactly man well done you guys my college roommates didn't give me books they gave me all kind of other stuff and not books good for you man it's funny because when i opened the book he had question marks everywhere as if he was questioning everything you said

you're studying finance so i guess ah okay yeah well finance professors either love me or they hate me yeah and so they uh they um well anyway we'll

move on from that so what do you guys do for a living i'm a speech therapist yeah and now during that four years i was a teacher but um now i'm self-employed okay cool i love your sweatshirts did you have those made or is that a thing i don't know about be intentional yeah my mom made them be intentional yep okay because it's all about this journey you've been on

there that's it no one wins by accident not at all it's an intentional series of steps and you've been doing it for three years and 11 months and that's just poured over into everything in our lives you know from work to our marriage just doing

everything on purpose you gotta do everything on purpose it's just been our motto i like that yep doing everything on purpose wow that's so good you guys well i just saw the thing flash up on youtube so you got several of these t-shirts yeah yeah i thought i saw a picture fly by okay there it is yeah okay yeah good that's that you may have a whole clothing line going here for

you know it i'm gonna go buy one after the show i like that there you go i like that very cool well done you guys all right

how many of your peers your friend group

coming straight out of college getting married thought you were nuts and how many of them are cheering you on

they didn't really say if they thought we were nuts they weren't that brave they didn't but but i don't i don't think it was that i think you know everybody for the most part was very supportive um which helped us out because we wanted to do the things they were doing and you know buy the house straight out of college like that but you know but you didn't

we didn't we rented we're still renting we're in the process of buying our first home now so yeah good for you it was it was it was hard but you know

i think for the most part they were pretty supportive they didn't tell us if they weren't what about you kayla are you getting good stories on that i don't think so yeah everyone was really supportive um

yeah there's no one who was like what in the world we don't think this is the right thing to do did he do it did either of you ever have moments where the other one had to pick pick you up because it was getting hard man i really need another car or i really want to go out tonight uh our cars our cars just started on cars man

it got to the point where i was like man forget this and that's part of the story where we had the one of the most important things i think was you know we have to really define our why because our why is what really kept us going and what's your why our why you know change our family tree when i read that book you know i saw what could be

and it just sparked hope and like you said hope deferred makes the heart sick and we were we once you have hope anything's possible and i feel like we're unstoppable we're unstoppable now we can do anything i feel like we do anything you definitely are you know so wow well done way to go you guys very cool excellent work excellent work okay what's the story on this income going from 90 to 175 in three years yeah well

we were like i said we were teachers i was we were both in education and uh i started uh there's an online platform for freelance work so it's an app you can just go on and yeah hire anybody you want for anything so i started doing everything you could on there like tackle or something like that exactly it's just like that it's called taskrabbit so you know

i was scrubbing toilets i was move

i was i'm showing grind painting i was doing everything i could what was the thing you did that made the most money for the shortest time when i was first started it was cleaning which i wish it wasn't but that's what it was but now i do a lot of mounting tvs and

uh yeah a year and a half ago i didn't know how to do any of it my dad he's uh you know he's got his own home repair business so he's taught me a lot in youtube okay if i didn't know how to do it i youtubed it okay and then you go and act like you knew how and did it exactly all right i like that that's gutsy man that's exactly right

and i know you've missed being in the classroom this past year huh oh my gosh wow it's been a tough year for teachers huh it's been tough i had some of my teacher friends they just told me you got it at the right time mm-hmm it's been real tough and speech pathology that's a tough gig man working with little ones elementary

man i've got the kind of like a teacher it's also rewarding though isn't it you're changing family trees there too yeah absolutely yeah that's so important i miss my kids but you know yeah i think i'm gonna stay what i'm doing yeah well you're killing it you guys are doing so good so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you did it you paid off 141 dollars in three years and eleven months be intentional basically i like the shirt dave yeah i

think the main thing is you gotta you you know we we talk we dream all the time i mean our date nights was riding around neighborhoods and houses that we wanted to live in and we still do it to this day i like that you know so dairy queen who was earlier that's our

dave ramsey dead okay hey dip cones baby

all day so but yeah just i think having your why like i said earlier you you got to have a why and um it has to be defined in hd like chris hogan says and and i got got up on the fridge

and just reminding yourself all the time because it gets not if it gets hard when it gets hard it's going to get hard very hard i'm not gonna lie sucked winning is not hard the price you pay to win is what's hard yeah exactly it sucked but that's excellent you know we just kept reminding ourselves of that why and stayed with it i love the driving around looking at houses

you want to be in some day yep the together together doing that together yeah and that that's a big deal that's kind of like you know like chris hogan talks about dreaming in hd that's it and there it is right there 3d hd in front of you you know it's real it's really happening so well well done we got a copy of chris's book for you every day millionaires that is

the next chapter in your story without a doubt absolutely very very well done tori and kayla dallas texas 141 000 paid off in three years 11

months making 90 to 175 the key is be intentional count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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coming out of school the first thing they do the first order of business is set this pattern in their relationship that's gonna work in every other area of their relationship going forward they set a success pattern up here it's unbelievable and i did the exact i got out of school and was in more debt after my first year of working than before because i wasn't intentional i was an idiot

and i was trying to keep up with the joneses i don't even want to talk about it i got you beat so there you go not these guys these guys are rock stars not tori and kayla on purpose boom this is the ramsay show

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how would you like to work on something that causes torya and kayla to be able to change their lives that's what we do here at ramsey solutions we transform lives we want to transform so many that disruption starts spreading like wildfire across our country imagine a day where it's weird to have a student loan where it's weird to borrow money to buy a car where

the credit card has been declared the cigarette of the financial industry where you do work that you love where you know how to get along and do relationships because dr john dolone has intersected with his information your life and it's changed everything imagine being part of causing that level of disruption with the work you do well that's what we do we got about a thousand folks here

we are adding 360 this calendar year we're just finishing up another building next door to put everybody in and if you want to join this crusade we're currently on the hunt for software engineers ruby on rails java c-sharp front-end technologies ux designers seo folks content folks marketing specialists digital marketing specialists and a lot of other stuff if you are a senior developer i can promise you we want to talk to

you we want to talk to everybody though if you want to find out about the jobs that are available and you want to do work that actually matters and you want to actually go home at six o'clock or five o'clock rather than work 80 hours a week we don't work 80 hours a week we go home with our families find out about the jobs available at daveramsey.com click

the dave's hiring tab on the right hand side of the page

that just reminded me man when i was a kid in college i used to tell us you know eighty percent of the jobs that y'all will work one day don't exist yet all those things you just settled off you don't know what they even are right and i only know what they are in the last 36 months so because i've had to learn as the ceo otherwise because i was like we're paying 225 000 a year for what exactly for you something

and so you start finding out oh that's what they do yeah okay i get that that makes sense wow open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five john is with us john is in

san diego hi john how are you

hi how's it going dave and john it's a pleasure to talk with you guys you too what's up um

so my mother is getting

what would you call it a um a gift from my grandmother selling her house and she's about to receive

probably around 150 000

and she wants to use that to buy a house here and basically the problem is my father's kind of hesitant because he's been burned in the past um we lost their house back in the 08 crisis and he's just afraid of like uh basically something happening in the future and not being able to uh hold on to the house basically that's understandable so what's the question um so i so um he

actually wants me to co-sign with him because my mother is actually getting back to work um he feels that his credit isn't

up to up to a certain amount that would get him the loan even with the 20 yeah no

yeah no way no you don't co-sign for anyone ever think about what you just asked you asked my dad is so scared that something bad is going to happen again that this time he wants to attach me to it right yeah because that's why i wasn't sure about doing that yeah no you're super sure you know it's just hard when your dad says hey man i'm so scared that i'm going to drown

i want to chain myself to you so if i drown you john too how about that and i know that's not what he's saying at all but it is actually what he's saying that's what he's done that's what he's going to do it's not what he meant so the answer is no yeah it is not good for him and it's not good for you to co-sign if

they are not in a position to buy a home they need to do the things they need to do to get in a position to buy a home now we can alleviate your dad's fears

of buying a home and something bad happening you're not going to lose your home your own it's very rare for you to lose your home if you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you have no other debt but the home and you buy a home where the payments no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate now those are ramsay guidelines on buying a home

if he does all of that which i suspect since his credit sucks that he has debt and he has some outstanding bad debt doesn't he actually he's getting out of baby step two i think he only owes about three thousand dollars on his car okay then he had some old bad done okay he did yeah he had some back back taxes and yeah other debt is that

and that's all paid now yes that's good that's great well let's get through six months of expenses built up or hold that back out of the 150 one of the two and it's okay if he sits there and rents for uh six months to a year with absolutely zero debt except that rental his credit will start to heal

but i would never i never tell anyone to cosign i i have cosigned for people and had the opportunity to pay the bill the reason a bank wants a cosigner is because they don't think the main signer is going to pay it's always a signal to me when a when a business that tells me loaning money i won't take your money yeah right i love loaning money but not to

this guy without your help right so that instead of it being an insult it should be a signal right there you go that's it and and it's you're not being disloyal to your dad as a matter of fact quite the contrary you're being loyal to him because here's what's going to happen you're going to move on with your last five or six years they're going to move on everything's going to be okay you're on

the stinking loan and you decide it's time to buy a house because you got married or you and your wife currently go decide to buy a house and guess what you can't cause you have this contingent liability called a co-signature on his it's going to bring you down keep you from buying a house or every time he pays late you know what it does it dings your credit or

he gets sick and can't work and suddenly you are having to work to pay his house payment because it's your house payment because you signed for it too proverbs 13 is not

proverbs 13 17 proverbs 17 18

says one lacking incense

cosigns for another that's the new king james version if you read the contemporary english version it says it is stupid to cosign it's exactly what

it says i thought that was the dave ramsey no it's a contemporary english version it's a real version of the bible it says it's stupid to cosign yeah

because of the whole premise is you're

going to end up paying it i don't know i don't know a family that doesn't have some sort of discord in it because somebody signed for a student loan somebody borrowed money from their borrow money from grandpa whatever i mean this is this this in this incestuous handling of

money is uh it's it's just a disaster please don't do it john i know you're i know i know you want to do good by your dad but just smile be kind be love and say dad i love you i love you and i want good things for you i'm and and me being on this loan is not a good thing for you or me um i'm going to be your biggest cheerleader i'm so proud of what you've done getting these debts paid off and being on baby step two encouraging but don't co-sign for him

and parents that would agree that would be the same thing for your children kids in those that said no but the opposite is don't co-sign for your kids to get a house no you know i'm trying to help my baby in a house yeah

leave your grown children to be grown yes it's an it's a novel idea a helicopter

and so so i have you have heard this term i was speaking coleman and i were talking about this yesterday i guess i've got a friend that works in educa in the education field coaching

school administrators and and

teachers and so on and she said you were at dinner she was telling she said you know there's all these new terms now she said you know what a helicopter parent is oh yeah i know i definitely know what helicopter they'd fly in you know pick up you know take care of everything yeah she said do you know what a lawnmower parent is do you no i do not i've not heard that what is that not it's a true thing though huh what is

it they cut the grass out in front of them so that they don't have any hard times assuring that they will never know how to handle hard times not if assuring they never know how to walk through tall grass wow no i've never heard that before that's lawnmower parents lawnmower parents are the next step after you're a helicopter parent and it's continuing to deteriorate

so the great the greatest these are all these great phrases for codependent the greatest parenting thing was my wife i went to help hank i know him to fall down and she said he's gonna fall down once and that was the greatest like let him fall then he won't climb back up on that anymore oh she's so wise

tough that puts this hour the ramsay

show in the books

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today he's the guy that does the dr john dolone show oddly enough and uh it's a wonderful podcast that is exploding where we deal with your issues

about life relationships mental health challenges boundaries family things it's all woven

in together and guess what it's all woven in together here at on the ramsay show as well and always has been for the last 30 years so it's perfect that he's here to help the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five you've got questions for dr john and or me we will definitely both jump in triple eight eight two five five two two five mark's with us in seattle hey mark how are

you hey good gentlemen how are you guys doing great man what's up uh first off just wanted to give you guys thanks for uh you know everything that you guys do uh my parents are big rambears they went through your class through church and all that they just kind of taught me everything and i pass along my brother-in-law's who are big listeners i'm sure they're even listening now just had a quick question for

you i'm getting out of the military here soon within the next year a lot of baby steps four and five right now i have two kids and all that i got about 15k in the savings uh and

when i get out we're looking at moving back home to florida or home for us uh back to

florida the question with that is my wife is

able to transfer she's a government contractor she makes uh between 20 and 25 000 a year

but i don't know what i'm going to do yet and so we're trying to figure out when we go back to florida if it would be smart for us to you know finally

get the house that we've wanted we've been nothing but renters our entire life finally get uh get the house we want or should we continue renting

until i can find a nice steady job um

and basically go from there

you're not gonna get the house you want with twenty five thousand dollar year income yeah did you say she makes 25 grand a year or 125 yeah uh 25 25 grand a year we got

about 15 000 in savings this is

my man yeah i wouldn't even transfer just go get a job at starbucks make 25 grand okay yeah so no no you don't you don't have enough income to buy a house that you're going to be pleased with okay and so i have the gi bill that uh

doesn't matter they don't they don't give you houses they don't qualify you for houses under the va for that you can't afford okay

we'll if i went that route we'd still be getting uh i'd be getting about 1600 a month for

the housing allowance uh as well as

me working either part-time if we go that route oh wait wait a minute you're talking about the gi you're not talking about the gi bill to buy a house you're talking about you're going back to school yeah oh and you're one you want to take the stipend and do that on top of hers no you need to you need to rent until you're out of school yeah runs until i'm out of school yeah what are you going to study uh right now i'm just working on my uh

just general associates and then from there i got a couple of different things i'm looking at uh possible uh looking at nursing degree

um my eyes are kind of open right now uh

i'm kind of getting out of the military earlier than i expected okay so we're just kind of open anything right now thank you for your service and you have this wonderful benefit to have education at your fingertips education with no game plan as to where it's going to take you is known as a waste of time

so you need to spend the next few months dialing in a detailed career path and game plan

that then will tell you what kind of education you need to get you may not need a four-year degree you may want to go into technology and get some microsoft certs i don't know i don't know what you're going to do you may want to go in the real estate business in which case you don't need a four-year degree you need a real estate license i don't know what you're going to do with your life but you need to dial that in and don't just go to school because it's there

that's going to take you nowhere john's

got a phd in higher education am i wrong no i do and i've worked with veterans for years who they get out and then they come and they just start going to school and think they're going to figure it out on the way and then you you know those that are dialed in and there is man there are a few students as as that you want in your class more than a dialed in veteran who knows what they're going

after it's got a game plan thank goodness for this benefit that i think they they fully deserve but yeah i'd rather see you go work for a year go be a nurse's aide go work in a hospital go do something and see is this what i want to do don't want to dedicate the next four to six years of my life doing this you do not have to go straight into school out of

the military okay in order to you know it does it does not invalidate your gi bill

right and yeah the only the only thing is uh trying to set up something uh like i said i had the two kids and all that so we're gonna need that some type of income uh coming in and her uh her salary isn't gonna really cut it that's right that's exactly that's what my point is and so buying a house is down the road yeah your big the big thing in front of you is to you know you got you got one year

so let's set some deadlines and say 90 days from today we will have spent enough time in prayer in discussion and reading and learning and uh visiting some people that are in different career fields that's right talking to real cr you know reading everything ken coleman writes uh and learning about careers and where you're going to go to have dialed in and then you say i've got nine months to get prepared to start knocking out the things that are

that are going to allow me to go be one of those after you've decided what one of those is go do that be one of those then talk

about buying a house how many people over the years dave have you talked to veterans who come in and they get that house-buying quote-unquote benefit then they find themselves stuck i used to live one of the colleges i worked at was next to a base and it just felt like there was a rotation they got a stipend to live off base and they just go by a house

and then in two years they're getting shipped out somewhere getting sent out yeah it's a mess they were had no money down so they're upside down upside down yep they're stuck just feels like people got stuck a lot yeah the va loan the sad thing is the va loan

for housing is supposed to be a nice benefit now the education loan is a nice benefit but the va loan actually sucks oh yeah

for two reasons one is it's actually more expensive it's a higher interest rate and higher fees which is absolutely ridiculous you would think that if you're going to give the veterans a benefit that it would be cheaper it would be better than everybody that's right it's not so there you go there's your veterans administration working for you but then the uh uh the second thing is is

they do have this zero down idea which means the seller pays all the closing costs you literally can walk in and sign the papers with not a dollar and buy a house but you can never walk out that back door again exactly but then you owe 100

more than 100 by the time all the stuff's rolled into the thing of what the house is actually worth you know how long it takes to get out of that five to seven years before you've got enough equity to sell it and break even and that geez louise yeah this is it's a

nightmare it's a trap

you know don't step there it's gonna rip

your leg off and i know you want to come home get plugged in get a house get those kids everything's stable just hang it there man hang in there va didn't mean for that to be a trap they were trying to be nice but nothing down is not nice nothing down screws you over and at a higher interest rate than you could have gotten if you put down a good down payment so no you don't want that benefit you're right it's a strap it's a trip this is the ramsey show

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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dr john deloney ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us

here on the ramsey show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five well folks

2020 was crazy and your 2020 taxes are gonna be crazy

so uh first you need to you know some of you got unemployment did you know that's taxable by the way yes that's taxable income um another big thing to keep in mind was remote working if you left your resident state to work remotely from another state you may have to pay taxes in two different states how joyful is that come on man

well not always the case it depends on the state you live in depends on the state you worked in and if you lived and worked in different states you need to look into state taxes and you know how this works it's complicated if you're unsure if

2020 has made your taxes different take our tax quiz it's free

it'll tell you if your situation is simple enough to do with tax software or if you're better off hiring a pro text the word tax quiz to 33789 and you'll

find out what your tax situation really looks like will help guide you and we can hook you up with the best the ramsey smart tax software or with one of the elps for taxes the pros whatever we need to do to help you we're going to help you text tax quiz no spaces

to 33789

and just so people know that's the tax stuff i'm using for my taxes for my family it's great man just like that charles is in toledo hey charles how are you i am

great uh glad that i found you on the radio mostly i'm sorry on on my heart actually a friend of mine years ago introduced me to some of your methods not to you so that kind of slowed my

progress down a lot i could have been doing a lot more sooner but i am uh 50 um pretty much debt free except

for mortgage and when i start putting in

it's a zero percent mortgage so it kind of doesn't make sense to really save a lot of money to skip the 401k to pay that off but i can do that but so the point is

um does

the financial peace university or the

dam ramsey plus teach me

how much of my money i can spend

where for example i like to take my wife

and kids out to dinner but i don't know i can't find online how much am i allowed to allocate towards that per month i'm a late saver uh just you know

i only have about 20 000 in my roth ira at the moment

so i do want to put in as much as i can

in july i'm eligible for a rough

401k but they will match seven percent so i want to do that that's great well budget percentages would change depending on your situation if you're in what we call baby step two meaning you're clearing off all your debts except your home and i think that's where you said you are you know if you're already past baby step two then uh you know yes you can allocate some

you can lighten up your percentages and allocate some for fun some for restaurants and vacations and those kinds of things if you are in the get out of debt mode gazelle intensity and baby step two the the allocated percentage for restaurants is zero the allocated percentage for vacation is zero while you work your way out of debt

and it's not like dave ramsey's punishing somebody like some of these idiots say on social media but it's more like uh this is how you win right you have to pay a price to get out of debt it's how i won you have to pay a price to get out of debt it's not easy it's hard now but but as you go along yes there are some uh guidelines we've got some percentages

some of them are in the back of the different books

in uh for instance total money makeover i think there's a percentage guidelines on the in the forms section in the back of the book they'll analog forms i don't think there are percentages in every dollar if i remember in the budgeting app which is really what i recommend you use but if you're just looking for some guidelines there's that now one that is well known as we tell folks not to have more than 25 of your income take home pay going out in housing your house payment

and uh so there you are uh but

you know what what ends up happening is this the percentages don't matter as much as every dollar that goes to one thing can't go to another and once you start doing that with your spouse then you say then you come to an agreed amount for restaurants right and it's you know and so if you make 70 000 a year the agreed amount for restaurants is not 700 a month right

because you can't hit your other goals and you're going to make those decisions automatically when you're looking at it um but there's not a magic formula that says you know if you just limit your restaurants to this but but instead you start making wise decisions that everything every budget category is a trade-off putting money in one by definition means there's no money for the other one and

i like what rachel talks about is asking yourself that next layer which is why are you buying that are you buying another shirt do you have money in your clothing budget because you actually need new clothes great are you buying stuff new clothes because

you're that's that's your addiction right yeah that is a way you're wallpapering over some some other stuff you'd be dealing with so i like to ask myself and the eating out thing is that that's right it's not for showing off for other people but you know why are we eating out so much right is it because we don't like spending time at home is because one of us doesn't want to cook or doesn't like to cook or

we can't get to the store or is it just because at the end of the day we just it's a form of entertainment that's right you know and so are we you know what's going on with that why is it why are we doing that doug's with us in tampa hey doug welcome to the ramsay show hi mr ramsey i'm dr john i'm a little nervous but um here

it goes okay

uh um a wonderful woman a few months ago

after moving down here from pittsburgh and um there's a large gap in our income where i'm at about 60 000 and she makes about 175 000

has a house that's valued at over 400 000 dollars she sounds like a wonderful woman [Laughter] she is she is and she's listening at home working and you know i've been down this road

before in 2010 met somebody and

uh married her and nine months later

i was diagnosed with leukemia however in

the meantime we were trying to buy a house and i had no credit and in order to get approved for a mortgage i had to take out credit cards long story short three and a half years later she divorced me before my cancer treatments were over and i i ended up moving into my own

place wow how can we best help you today doug

okay well how do i i see a future with

this woman but i've tried to convince her if she gives me a hundred thousand dollars i'll give her two percent cash back and she says well i won't have things but if you're so confused why would she give you a hundred thousand dollars well for credit cards she's she likes to

use credit card stuff oh you know and i'm saying you know you talk about that yeah the metaphor i thought you just met a girl like hey babe give me a hundred thousand dollars yeah

that's a problem so okay here's the thing the number one

cause of divorce in north america today's money fights and money problems and john will tell you an all good phds in

psychology will tell you you're not really fighting about money you're really fighting about what's important to you power control control life options margins

and so um until you guys can work your

way through this and get on the same page about money the relationship is stalled right

and she's not better than you because she makes more money than you and you are not better than her because of feeling like y'all got to come at this at equals who cares who's making the most money right now right or or what the really what the past is that's right the pass just makes you want to address it right which is a good thing but um

if you can agree on your money principles and on your spending you are agreeing about your whole freaking life right because those things flow around it and and when you cannot then you know

you're stalled until you can and so i would recommend you guys jump in you can jump in and go through ramsey plus jump in there together and start taking some of the classes together it gives you a point of reference to talk through some of these things and you know as this goes forward you may want to do some pre-marriage counseling that will get you there as well don't marry someone that you're not on the same page with about money this is the ramsey show

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now we love doing debt-free screams on the ramsey show we particularly love doing debt-free screams live in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage we really love doing debt-free screams

on the in the lobby on the debt-free stream stage when it's one of our own ramsey team members and kate cameron is with us on the stage

and half the dadgum building is out here to watch to cheer her on to do her debt-free scream there's hundreds of people out here this is a little nervous yeah yeah [Laughter] we're up here doing a world-class radio show there's about three people milling around out here you walk up here and the whole blaze shuts down that comes out here a lot of support that's for sure very cool very cool how much debt you paid off kate 25 564 cool how long did this take

12 months 12 months i will not ask your income because your peers are standing around and that would be unfair so what kind of debt was the 26 000

it was all student loans all right very

cool very cool okay so now you've been with us about what three years it'll be two uh next week okay all right

two years and you're in the ramsey education department meaning you work with the high schools and the k-12 right yes i do and what do you do there so i talk with our teachers and administrators and i get them to have our curriculum for the students yeah be able to teach foundations and personal finance exactly some of the 48 of the high schools in america that teach it and you're it's all your fault well done

well done so you've been here for two years and it sounds like you've been working on this process about that period of time then so does the story have something to do with joining us and so you're like oh i guess i better do this stuff yeah so um when i first moved down here i was really excited and a funny story you know i had my car break down

before i moved down here from michigan so i was like you know what i love this job i'm meant to be here i know i am so i moved into an apartment right next to the old building actually so i walked to work walked to the grocery store for about three months and then i was really thankful like while i was saving up i had my family friend just gift me a car

so it's just one of those things that things just work in your favor when you're following god right and so

after taking fpo i was like i really need to be doing this i need to be doing it the right way and so i finally decided after actually taking it twice to just say i'm going to be gazelle intense so my 2020 goal is i'm i'm debt free that's my 2020 goal and you did it during the pandemic then yes of course your pay didn't stop here so that didn't that that wasn't interrupted but uh our lives were all turned upside down anyway yeah so how old are you i'm 26.

classroom and so um it was after i went through fpu that i'm like listen i need to be doing this i know i can do it i have a stable income like there's no excuse so i think the hardest part when i was actually in the journey was saying like i know i can do this i'm gonna do my discipline god's gonna provide and just continue to

get excited about the process so you were your neck deep in it and then we uh we put everybody in the auditorium downstairs covet hits and we said okay um here's

what we're going to do everybody we're going to start working from home and if we don't keep revenues up it's not going to go well right and you know leadership won't take pay first but eventually if we don't get revenue in this place it's going to cost start costing people jobs you know i made that announcement and you're sitting there pouring all your money onto debt and gave all your savings up

you had to be freaking out yeah a little bit and i'm in a sales role so of course that's always uncertainty but i had faith in god and i

was at the time working at um like part-time for a catering company serving there and of course with catering companies it's usually like big events weddings that kind of thing and so that ended too so it was like okay one thing after another but um i found another job serving and bartending and i was like i'm gonna put my work in and god will provide and he did

and i'm really thankful to be here and of course sales went down because the school administrators weren't there to buy curriculum for from you and then they came back up right yeah so it's turned out okay by the end of the year but it's been quite a roller coaster you went through emotionally while you did this i'm so proud of you thank you that was tough yeah

and you're

coming to work every day your job was to talk to people who were completely frazzled all day long too and i talk a lot about secondary traumatic stress you experience that tell me about that yeah um daily i would have teachers be like i don't even know what's going on i don't know about curriculum i don't know about anything and i'm like okay we're gonna make it through guys like

i promise it'll be okay one way or another we're gonna get these students through so so every every day every week you are talking to frazzled people on top of your frazzled world right and going home saying i'm doing the right thing i'm balling the plan i'm falling apart good scott's got my back guys got my back exactly yeah well done kate thanks very well done you're tough

you are tough so so there's a 26 year old out there that owes 25 30 40 000

and they're just not all in explain the

feeling just throughout your body explain this to folks what this feels like now now that you're free yeah it is just so fun to be like okay

i just got a paycheck and i have options like i of course i'm saving right baby step three but um it's like okay i don't need to put it towards my student loans i don't need to put it towards this thing that i owe like i have options and that freedom and that ability to say i get to choose what i get to do with this is

so worth it 100 times it was worth a really tough hard scratch and claw year absolutely yeah the price you paid was worth it exactly you ever go back in debt no oh my gosh no no that's scary it's like oh

no sorry i i love my options and kate you are tough and you man you went step by step but i don't want the people listening to this and you can't see it but man you are surrounded by people and we cannot do life by ourselves and you've got cheerleader after cheerleader after chile in this room and so everybody's here sharing in this this extraordinary achievement man it's awesome well done so well done so proud of you

all right it is kate from the education

solutions team where she calls chur or calls churches calls schools and administrators and teachers every day to get them to teach the high school curriculum foundations and personal finance because don't you wish you had learned this stuff when you were a kid it's almost our byline over there you know and uh highly successful and this is what you call an incredible 26 year old right here we got a building full of these they're incredible incredible they're incredible so proud of you so well done all right kate 26 000 paid off in 12 months

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free

[Applause]

yeah baby

yeah you know people don't understand

that have never led an organization

that during the pandemic those of us that were leading companies yeah we're looking out at a room full of her yeah going it's my job yeah as the

leader to keep the revenue coming in so she gets to live her dream yeah and i'm sitting here thinking all that stress we went through last year in leadership yeah to be able to keep this place afloat be able to keep things running all the criticism we took that's why we did it that's right for her because she keeps her job that's right and she gets to do

this i'm so proud of her that is so cool man and she didn't cave in she didn't quit she didn't say well i'll try again in 2021 yeah she didn't panic yeah she played

through act of faith walked out her faith kept making the calls what a cool 26 year old it's awesome very cool got a building full of them man i love it this is the ramsay show

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so

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dr john deloney ramsey personality is my

co-host today this is the ramsey show thank you for joining us open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five donna's in utica new york hi donna how are you hi dave i'm doing well how are you better than i deserve what's up

okay so i have a whole life insurance

policy um and i i would like to cash it in

i just found out that there's dividends

on the policy which i believe are tax-free um i have a loan out on the policy

and a cash value on the policy a small

cash value so my question is

should i take out the dividends first or if i cash it in will i get those dividends that i have on my policy you should get them if they haven't been used to buy paid up editions yeah they have not i didn't

even realize that they would have just have been added to your cash value what's that i'm sorry it would have just been added to your cash value and none of this is going to be taxable

so they're saying i got forty three hundred dollars in dividends and a cash value of fifty three hundred dollars but then they said i'm going to be capital

gains tax on 80s no no

okay i doubt it so here here's

here's how the calculation works okay the dividends are not taxable period okay how much is your loan

the loan is 15 000. i just okay so

these numbers are above the loan being paid back right yeah okay because you don't get the loan money i mean you get you gotta the money has the cash value has to pay off the loan first so right now as far as the cash

value whether it has a capital gains or not here's the basis all the money you've ever paid into this policy added together is your basis

so do you remember what your premium is forty dollars a month okay for how long have you been doing this uh 1992. so

500 bucks a year for 30 years

you don't have any capital gains

30 times 500 all right is more than

your cash value you would only have a

you would only have a capital gain is if all the premiums you have paid in over time um is equal to

more than your cash value

or less than your cash value and it never is because these things suck so bad they're horrible i know okay now let me tell you how a dividend works just for the fun of it

okay now how old are you

60. okay do you need life insurance

is someone count on your income to eat

no are you married yeah

okay do you all have a pile of money other than this well i mean i have and we have savings but i mean i probably only have about ten thousand dollars in savings so how does he eat if you die

well he's working and has a retirement okay all right so if you don't need life insurance then it's fine if you want to buy some life insurance you would buy it prior to canceling this that's thing one now a dividend is not taxable

because it is not a dividend

in the true sense of the word a dividend is when a company makes a profit like home depot and they pay their stockholders some of the profit out and that's a dividend okay life insurance dividends have nothing to do with that at all there are two kinds of companies in the life insurance world stock company and a participating company stock company never pays dividends the only ones that do are participating the stockholders of a participating company are the policyholders

so if you have a state farm policy or you have a i don't know what who's whose is yours with credential yeah prudential's participating okay and that means that the policy holders

are the owners now in order for them to

give you an owner profit back

they would have had to charge you extra

to create that profit does that make sense yes so there's no dividend if you're if i own the company and i want to and i want to buy something from myself and i charge myself a little extra so that i can give myself back some more money that's nice of you that's nice of me and then so that's why

the irs has deemed life insurance policies that have dividends to be non-taxable because the the actual ruling states it's the return

of a deliberate overcharge right

okay and that's why it's not taxable it's a it's a shell game it's a scam and so uh it's of no benefit at all so that that's just all that is is you paid too much for the policy all these years so now you got 4 000 of it coming back that's all that was right then on top of that you paid too much to build up a cash value

and you're going to get that back but you're not even getting back all that you paid in so you've got no taxes on that either so that that's the moral of the story on that and and these whole lot that's you know one more way that these holiday

or one more way that these uh whole life policies suck it's just unbelievable and by the way you paid extra to create the savings account in there call cash value and when you wanted your money out you had to go borrow your own money and pay them interest to do that so that loan you've been paying interest on was where you borrowed your own money in this whole time do

these companies take that money and then they go invest it somewhere else and keep the gap right oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely so they're like a long-term interest-free bank

virtually interested in making money on their stuff right that's why you know that's why in any skyline in america you know you drive around there are two tall buildings banks and life insurance companies right you built them people wow you built them in both cases you gave them your money and uh you know this is the great the great credit card scam the great you know car loan scam uh the great the great whole life life insurance scam and uh

some of the wealthiest companies in america are life insurance companies because they have all of the money like hers sitting on the books in the commercial real estate business if you want to go get a shopping mall for uh 26 million dollars and you want to bought you want to find a lender for that the primary lender is life insurance companies they do functioning as their own bank insiders

they do tons of commercial lending and they're lending her money and they make the spread and they make the spread that's right wow just follow the money baby

just follow the money and you'll see where it is you'll see what's been going on so oh man and i've never heard that

you get the blessing of them increasing your rate and then saying hey here you go here's some of it back look how look how benevolent yeah right yeah wow

so you know if as long as your cash value now if her cash value does include her more her loan amount so shh

i'm gonna rethink that she probably had about a fifteen thousand dollar basis and she said she had a fifteen thousand loans so she might actually have a cash flow a capital gain you'd have to see your tax professional to be sure and double check that but the way you calculate your basis is all the premiums you've ever paid in

is your basis and as long as your cash value is not higher than that number it almost never is then there is no

capital gain on it because you lost money you lost money right you didn't keep up with inflation putting 40 bucks under your bed for yeah 20 or 30 years you'd have been better off putting it in a fruit jar you'd end up with more money wow at the end of this story wow you wouldn't have the life insurance but if you put your money in a fruit jar

and buy an inexpensive term policy you'd end up with more money yeah if you put the money in a real investment like a mutual fund and buy an inexpensive term policy good roth ira you'd end up with millions of dollars more wow i mean that little 40 a month policy would have amounted to not you know we're talking about 8 000 15 000 here these kinds of numbers

it would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars wow difference instead they loaned money to a shopping

mall developer with her money that's how it works

oh well that's discouraging it

yeah is just you know live and learn don't buy a whole life that's right and if you got one get rid of it this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice dr john dolone ramsey personality and host of the explodingly popular dr john dolone

podcast i is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you get real talk on life relationships mental health issues the chaos of anxiety depression disconnection and all kinds of just good old grandma common sense stuff from dr john all the time on his show and when he's on here too so you can call in right now triple eight eight two five five two two five

if you can't get through today because the lines are always pretty full around here you can always email and participate on john's show by emailing ask john at ramseysolutions.com

or leave a voicemail at 844 844-693-3291

ryan starts off this hour in akron ohio hey ryan how are you i'm doing well how are you dave better than i deserve what's up in your world

awesome hey well i've always enjoyed

personal financing and learning about it and in college i've even helped friends you know make budgets and just basic stuff like that and i just got so excited about it i know i wanted to help people with their money and i graduated this past may may 2020 got a job at a bank because i thought you know that's a great place to help people with their money

and that's right around this time i started to listen to your show consistently and really do the baby steps for myself good for you how many you yeah yeah i've seen how many uh lives your plan has changed dramatically

and i feel like um the stories i hear on

your show are from people who

would walk into the bank and i would feel pressure you know for my boss and from corporate to sell credit cards and sell home equity lines of credit i feel like i'm in this position where i'm putting people uh in a position to you know

come to your show like you know what i mean like um i just feel like i'm pushing i you know my job is to push debt and more debt

and i'm just wondering where you know in the financial world can i go um where this isn't the

you know tool of

making money for companies is debt yeah

well i mean if you work in a pizza place you're gonna be selling pizza that's the way it works so i mean that's um and if you're health food nut that probably is not gonna be right not to be congruent right yeah so that that's kind of where you find yourself um a lot of people with your itch

uh gravitate towards uh

the uh the investment advisory side of the business like our smart investor pros where you work for a a local

organization that is a member of a broker dealer and you help people get investments going and most of those

people do not peddle debt most of them peddle investments and they some of them go extend beyond that into some basic financial planning like they'll hook you up to help you get a will or they'll hook you up in that world they do now our smart mr pros generally just do

investing but the ones that we endorse but uh you know some of them get into that some of them get into a little bit of but you'll have the opportunity let's say you had a a client that had an investment portfolio that was uh 60 years old but he had a 30

year old daughter who was struggling and brought her to you

and you could you know to help teach her about budgeting in the process so we did to do a lot of that kind of thing in the crossfire like that the only place in the banking world where you're able to uh

where you're not forced with a quota a boss breathing down your neck to sell debt like you have experienced is

small town local banks community banks aren't as aggressive in the debt marketing and uh and credit unions uh that's why i endorse both both of those and not the large mega banks because the mega banks are pretty well they're just pretty well debt peddlers is what they do they just if they figure if you're breathing you need a bunch of their debt and um i don't know which one you're working at

i didn't ask but the the larger ones are much more soulless in their approach and you know i've got friends in the community banking business obviously i don't believe in borrowing money i'll teach people borrow money but they're much more responsible with their interaction there's a moral component for them with their interaction with their customer versus these mega banks they'll just shovel as much down somebody's throat as

they can get in there and and you know you're going to lose your job if you don't sell a certain amount of credit cards car loans and home equity loans in your position and i'll tell you that right the the the

30 000 foot view of your question is you can't work very long in a job that violates a core value of yours whether that's treating people disrespectfully whether that's like dave said peddling food that you think is not healthy selling debt at some

point you will begin to fracture from the inside out yeah i mean let's just completely change the metaphor let's pretend that you uh that alcoholism killed your father

and you don't believe in drinking and drinking scares your death you'd make a horrible bartender yeah

you know and that's that's what john's talking about is and you don't need to quit today we're not suggesting you run in there with your hair on fire and make some political statement we're not trying to create an act make you into an activist okay but the uh uh but you long term what is good for you is to find something and that's why that's what that's

the itch you've got that's what you're scratching is long long-term you need to find something that is congruent with your belief system and your values you're not going to prosper otherwise you're never going to be a really great banker at that bank that's exactly right and you're never going to be able to sleep either yeah you know the ball isn't going to be happy the customers aren't going to be happy you're not going to be happy nobody's happy you're not selling enough debt

the customers are getting debt they're not happy you're selling debt you don't want to sell debt you're not happy nobody's happy here yeah you know and so you know you're just you head on your pillow dude and and so what i would do is i develop a you know like an 18-month runway or a 12-month runway that says all right i've got to start doing some of ken coleman's materials on hunting for a career thinking about a career i'm going to investigate for instance

the financial advisory world what's it take to get into that what have i got to do what licensing have i got to get what have i got to do to get hired in that world and begin to move in that direction but

um i i you know i i would not ask a

pizza place to not sell pizza right and i'm not going to ask a bank to not sell debt i am going to ask all of you to not buy it from them so that you're not harmed but i'm not going to expect an alligator to quit biting it's what alligators do and this is a common situation he says he just graduated and started this job that he wanted to help people right

you have a vision and this helps people with money and bank's got money so i'll go over there that's right man and but that happens to graduates all over the place right and then they get in and gets you behind the curtain see how the sausages made see what we're actually doing here and then they have a crisis of value yeah right crisis of conscience yeah it's very real

i appreciate you ryan you got a good you're a man of integrity and you weren't you weren't being a drama queen about it you weren't being crazy about it but you're just going this just feels weird and i don't think it's going to work and you're right it's not it's not going to work and they're not going to change right so how do you treat them with dignity

and then how do you hold your head up when you go find something else you know you're going to be you're going to suck at selling debt so they're going to be happy when you leave [Laughter] this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at eight eight two five five

two two five peak real estate season is here if you are thinking about buying a home this year here's a piece of simple advice that could help save you uh from making a six figure mistake don't buy something you don't understand

are you financially are you sure you're financially ready for that mortgage are you confused about how the buying process works are you confused about the mortgage press pause and get educated before you buy start by checking out our new 13 step

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you'll learn about every step in the buying process from saving for the down payment to the closing day plus you'll get pro tips on how to make smart money decisions along the way to get this free 13-step home buying checklist text home checklist

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checklist and find out exactly what the what it takes to buy the home you're dreaming of text home checklist to three

three seven eight nine nick is in new

york city hi nick welcome to the dave oh to the ramsay show hey what's up

how you doing dave um i wanted to ask

you uh i'm 22 turning 23 this year and i

wanted to start saving for my retirement uh my company doesn't offer a 401k plan or anything else so i was interested in what your thoughts are on what kind of rra ira i should get into a traditional one or a roth one or something like that or if you have a better solution i would love to hear it well good for you man you're welcome way ahead of the curve to be working on this at your age excellent so are you out of debt uh yeah i mean

right now the only payment the only payments i make are on my phone watch and that's about 60 a month okay your phone what phone watch my

my cell phone and my smart watch oh i'm sure together they cost about 60 a month that's just the cellular service okay yeah and the uh and and how much money do you have in savings um well in my personal savings i have

like a few thousand dollars about three thousand dollars um but when i was in the eighth grade i got hit by a truck so when i was 18 i got some money from that and i invested it in stocks about three thousand dollars in single stocks uh yeah and

e-trade and stuff like that okay all right um all right well before we move into

investing i need you to have three to six months of household expenses are you on your own are you living with mom and dad uh no i still live with my parents okay all right your three thousand dollars probably is your emergency fund uh all right to start with nick let's just back up the first thing is i don't do single stocks i know a lot about them

i buy i buy investments i've got hundreds of millions of dollars of investments and uh but i don't buy single stocks because i don't like the risk associated with that and the game you're playing there's a lot of risk now if someone is really loving it and you obviously have a a knack for it and it's something you want to fool with no more than 10 of your net worth

so in your case about two thousand dollars worth is about all you ought to have in single stocks you're taking too much risk in my opinion okay so i would move that towards mutual funds and then as far as starting qets is not only single stocks but it is mainly single stocks yeah okay and uh then the next question is when are you planning to move out and what money do you need to do that

um i don't really have a plan on moving

out yet i'm still like i just started working

and i probably would want to move out between 26 and 28

years old possibly yeah

um i'm really not i'm not really sure on what do you mean with that yeah what do you make uh about 15

16 000 a year i'm working in a work study program right now yeah so i'm not making a lot of when will you complete the work study program uh a few years two years two and a half okay when you get your income up to where you can i don't want you 28 years old in your mother's basement dude get out and get going you do not need to start your roth iras yet

you need to you need to pile up money to make the transition out of your household and complete your studies and complete your career get your career going then you need to start and i would start with a roth ira in good growth stock mutual funds i love that you're asking the question but you're a little bit early in your process not in your age but in your process you're in

the middle of transit transitional things that need to happen before you start investing yeah i'm just trying to wrap my head around

that spirit and also that um

it seems it just seems out of balance you don't hear that very often that someone's thinking so strategically and so far ahead and also i'm living to my parents house

i'm about 30 28 you know what i mean so it's always the other way around i've got people like racing out of their parents house the moment they can and buying a way big too big a house or a truck and saying hey man you gotta have a future too so this kind of flipped around a little bit yeah yeah yeah get your own place nick get your own placements as soon as you're

you know you probably can't do that on 15k uh in new york city okay but when you get this work study thing going and you can get your income coming up in the next 12 to 18 24 months or whatever then let's move out get your fully funded emergency fund at that point of three to six months of expenses remain and stay debt-free through that whole process

and then you would start investing when you're stepping into your bed into your career and 15 of your income is what i would do there in good mutual funds with a good roth ira bill is with us in dayton ohio hi bill how are you i'm great dave how are you doing better than i deserve what's up oh awesome awesome yeah i have a question on an inheritance um i'm based on debt free

no house payment or anything debt-free um i do have emergency fund of about 25 30 000 dollars but i'm about to inherit about 440

000 dollars um yeah and it's in a uh

it's going to be in a um like a traditional i believe traditional ira okay an inherited ira okay yeah so i

don't know what the best i know i think i have to take that out you do have to begin taking over 10 years yeah you got you got 10 years on the new the new laws that just passed a year ago and so you're going to take out a 10th a year doesn't mean you have to take it out and spend it but you it's not going to be protected under

the ira and whatever you pull out is taxable each year no there's no penalties on it but you can take and you can't roll it into your own ira you can take it out pay the taxes and then you do whatever so 40 50 grand a year is going to be rolling out into your hand and you need to decide ahead of time after after i pay

the taxes on that what am i going to do with it and in the meantime it ought to be parked in you can you can move the investments around inside the inherited ira are is it already in good mutual funds or do you know i'm not 100 sure i have to look into that okay if i can't move it around if i want to move it around yeah

you can you know you can move the ira to a smart

vester pro sit down with them develop two different game plans one for the existing pile of money in mutual funds and two what am i gonna do with these mandatory rollouts these mandatory money this mandatory money have to pull out and you can turn around have another investment account and it just moves right over into that after taxes okay you don't have to take

it home you don't have to take it home by a truck you know it's not required but uh you may you may want to you may want to do some nice things with it you may you know there may be a few things you want to spend some of this on you may be some generosity things you want to do uh then all that's okay it's your money okay

so it is better to take it over the 10-year period to take a little out of the time because of it i'm assuming it's less of tax yes uh the the um

the because all that money that is tax

let's say you pulled ev every hundred thousand dollars you pull out you're gonna send 25 grand or so to the government that 25 grand is going to continue to make you money in there over the top using the government's what is effectively going to become the government's money it's going to make you money so i don't want to send it to them until i have to uh

the only downside is we may see some bumps in tax rates uh in the current political climate so we'll see hey thank you for calling this is the ramsey show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five kim is with us in new

york city hi kim how are you hi dave thanks for taking my call sure i'm considering i'm considering selling my investment property to use as a down payment for a new home the issue is i bought it for 375k and it looks like i'm probably going to end up selling it for 345k so it'll be at a loss loss will i still get hit with capital gains no capital gains are based me

you didn't do a 1031 into it you didn't trade into it did you no i didn't no you you don't have a capital gain if you're not gaining so uh oh okay that's how you know so you're fine why is it losing money current situation in new york well yeah

so i bought it during that whole bubble so it was when you know rates were high for homes and now it just never again it never went back up to that price point again from 2008 or from covid yes

no from 2004 so for 15 years it never went back up to 375.

wow i am getting rid of that yeah it's

it's a it's definitely not a keeper yeah

that doesn't sound like it's been a fun experience i'm with you i'll take my loss take my lumps and move on yeah right

right right you can see a tax professional to be sure i'm not a tax pro i don't even do my own taxes but i've been doing real estate uh

thousands of real estate transactions through my life and so i do know capital gains law and you do not have a capital gain if there's not a gain it's a pretty simple thing um wait a minute

you know what you need to see your tax pro because who's been doing your taxes will give you your adjusted basis you've been depreciating it for 15 years and so you've been lowering your basis for 15 years your basis for tax

calculations could be less than 345 it is not what you paid for it it's what you paid for it minus the depreciation you've been taking on your taxes that's your adjusted basis and that

might be below 345 so you might have a gain but i don't have any way of knowing what that is you'd have to look at your last tax return or talk to your tax pro but if you've been systematically depreciating the thing for 15 years you may have a hundred thousand dollar gain you very well could so so walk me through that i know that if i have a tractor for my farm i'm going to depreciate that every year

because it's actually losing value yeah and when you sell it if you depreciate it on your taxes as a business transaction as a business tractor not a gentleman's tractor but yeah then then it's going down in value right and but how do you do that with a house i thought a house with with a it's not the loss in value

but it's the same concept you are allowed to write off one thirtieth of the house every year i did not know and so as a tax of the

uh not the lot but of the actual capital improvements so let's just make up a number let's say that uh she paid 375 the lot was worth 75 she's got 300 000 worth of capital improvements that can be written off over 30 years then that's 10 000 a year regardless if

that house could be worth a million dollars you can still write off well it doesn't matter what it's worth your body people can depreciate you can take 10 000 of loss against your income depreciation in that case if you divided 300 000 by 30 okay uh each year but then that lowers your basis

and so if let's say it was 10 000 and you did that for 15 years that's 150 000 you've lowered your basis now when you sell it everything above that lowered basis is a gain ah well played okay and so she's going to have a gain if she's been depreciating that house and she probably has yep most people that have rental property do take the depreciation because in a sense

you know if you got ten thousand dollars and you made ten thousand dollars in rental income on the house you had tax free income right so well shelter is sheltered real estate has a tax shelter to it that's what a tax shelter is that's what that's where the phrase comes from all right colleen is with us in augusta georgia hey colleen how are you hi dave how are

you thanks for taking my call sure how can we help i well i'm in a little bit of a bind or a pickle i recently came across your program through my church it was given to us and i started following your program about a month ago i am on baby step two

though i've already completed baby step three and i know you're gonna say you know what you're gonna say but my concern and worry is um i have my husband his income has been

kind of unstable so i'm a little nervous about depleting savings and throwing it to my last debt so i guess i just need some advice

okay um

well you're right you're not doing the baby steps you're doing your plan but the uh the thing how unstable is his

income i mean do you think he's going to lose his job um he's been having some some problems with some struggles and has had to go away at times to

seek some treatment and um

kind of left me holding the bag which is fine because i feel like we make enough income to is he still fighting

the addiction yes okay all right

and what do you make and what does he make uh i make about 80 000 a year

and he's around 50. okay

and how much debt do you have and how much is in savings i have a 18 000

car loan and a 24 000

personal loan with zero interest and the

car loan is about i don't know 1.79 and i've actually been able to spend and how much how much debt do you have i mean how much how much savings do you have 17 000

okay so there's not

really a a way to work it in our system like you're working it what we tell folks is one of two things

one is work the system and that would be pull the set pull 16 of 17 out throw it at this situation i would not do that in your situation the second way to address this is i have i'm in the middle of a storm and so we don't work the baby steps we just push pause and we pile up cash

okay how long has he been struggling with this and how long have you all been married we've been married about six years and he's been struggling for about two that i was

aware of i guess i i kind of what what's he addicted to uh mostly alcohol which relates to a lot

of ptsd wartime issues and things of that nature

he's hurting and he's hurting you

in the process y'all are hurting and so

you don't need to be working in intense baby steps program you need to be piling up cash and addressing this and you don't need an eighteen thousand dollar car debt so you probably ought to move down in car until you all get this situated because anything we can do to have more cash and less debt stabilizes your life while you fight through this and make these decisions i'm

so sorry but let me tell you what you let me tell you what you can't do you can't continue to sort of do life while he sort of fights this and i'm sort of going to work a plan because i sort of hope this is all sort of okay it's kind of all in or all out am i missing something john no that's 100 right and i love dave

you just said it right this isn't a time to be gazelle intense because somebody's hurt right and if you even if you pile up cash and you put it in your checking account and just even mentally you can tick off we're getting closer and closer in six months in a year you're able to just write that check and and pay your debt down and pay your debt off um

but he needs to go full in and get this

thing taken care of or to get on a pad you don't get taken care of in that way but you need to go full full adventure here to go get on a

new road to getting well and he needs you by a side in that in that process yeah you you you're you

don't you don't glide in the middle with ptsd

with addictions resulting from it there's no middle can i ask you can i ask you this question calling um okay actually let's do this can we hang on sure and roll over hang on here and we'll catch you after the break and um i want to ask you a question as we follow up here yeah we'll make sure we walk with you because your financial stuff is is ending up being

the symptom of all these other things and the fact you can't move forward is the symptom of all these other things so we got to help you with the whole picture and this this is a good man who's been wounded and we want to help him it's hard hard

stuff

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our scripture of the day hebrews 10 23 let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering for he who promised

is faithful amelia barr says it is

always the simple that produces the marvelous there we go

we're talking with colleen in augusta georgia the young man that she married has uh

some ptsd and is resulting in some alcohol ism and not some is and

um uh so his income's unstable because

he's been apparently in and out of rehab a couple times and so she's trying to figure out how to work the steps during that we told her don't just shut down pile up cash and let's work on getting him well so that we are well so that we

can plan our future out and that's where we left it john does that sound right colleen yes that's right so let me ask you this um sometimes folks who are married they love somebody struggling with addiction that's such a helpless feeling it's such a unmoored unstable feeling that they start looking around their world and trying to grab hold of anything they can control and just start doing

it really hard is there a part of this situation where you feel powerless as he's going up and down struggling with this that this debt journey is a way that you

can grab control here or are you just looking at

your budget and you're terrified

we can't hear you you can't hear your call your phone went sideways oh i'm sorry i'm sorry um

i feel like it's a little bit of everything i feel like i

i it's just been a struggle because i feel like everything falls on my shoulders and not that he's never he's always brought income to the table

we just lost you colleen

yeah we just lost you there um

yeah dave as i was saying that that powerless feeling and it's always brings like she was saying always brings income to the table sometimes he does sometimes he doesn't the tendency is is just to say what can i do to make myself safe and then you jump into a program like this that only works if both of you are on the same page right and one of you really gets dedicated to a process and the other person's kind of in and out and not healthy not fully well and man that undermines the relationship

further accidentally right and suddenly you're you're going head-to-head on how we spend money going head-to-head on um are you making money and then it just separates you from the inside out i love the idea of stacking cash making sure on on the same page if you've got to do something help him when his debt-free journey

yeah i mean

yeah and i would other than that i would just pile up cash as high as i could pile cash to get rid of that eighteen thousand dollar car line right not because it's an expensive car but just it's a dadgum car line and i'd like for you to be free anything we can do to make less stress so you can pile up more money so you can address the real issue that's right and the real issue is to help him get some healing um and uh it sounds like he's a wounded

warrior yep psychologically those are hard man hard moments it's a tough it's a tough thing to go through and time we love him and thanks for his service and um and then you guys work and

um let's get everybody on the same page

with an ongoing coach an ongoing counselor a 12-step program and a rehab or whatever you need get it all lined up and pay for it let's do it let's get it done and plug it in with a va whatever you got to do to get the help and and uh and you get a clear eye you can't

accept this as an ongoing i don't

i don't want to project this for you that's why i put you on hold and held you was through this was i don't want to project this for you i don't want you projecting this instability in and out in and out in and out as the way of life for the next 10 years no or 20 years no that's not okay

that becomes co-dependent on your part and it will get with somebody with ptsd and i'll close them that will get increasingly unstable right that will continue to devolve into they're gonna say they're gonna heal or it's gonna get worse that's right and so um you gotta be working on the healing side of it to where you say okay we have a number of years two years three years whatever we're going to be clear of

this and we're going to look back in our rearview mirror and go well that was crappy and i'm glad we did it together and i'm glad we held on and now let's work take this pile of cash and let's work on through and let's get going and let's and i tell you you want to you want to accomplish a goal get a clear-eyed well-focused

veteran by your side man you're going to go fly through these baby steps right there's there's it's it's hard to stop oh you mean you mean him healed i thought man he's gonna be the greatest partner you ever had yeah because i mean you know once you've been through that stuff he's gonna be you know you've been under a live fire uh credit card that done but it's not it's not a big thing

you know that's right so i i want every veteran listening to this driving down the road by yourself if you're struggling please please not for anybody else but for yourself do what you got to do to go get well go see somebody go talk to somebody and then you're going to realize it is for yourself but it's also for your kids it's also for your wife it's also your husband go get help

but the healed version

has an unbelievable ability to focus

to do anything and a and a and a

a a rewired discipline yeah

that is there and it's a foundation that's what you mean you say a clear-eyed veteran you know they're they have a you know there's just built-in priorities yeah and um don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff hey i'll never forget man i i can tell you who he is right now i was walking down i was working at a law school or walking down the hall and i said man all right

it was exam time and law school exams are hard and i said man are you stressed and he said well sir nobody shot at me today and i'm in the air conditioning so i'm doing all right and i remember going whoa

what a perspective there's an old sales old sales uh motivational story of the guy that won uh you know the number one sales guy for one of the big uh or one of the big franchises in in real estate and they brought him up on stage to give him the trophy number one in the whole nation said you know well you know how did you do this

and he goes well it's not hard you just talk to people about houses and they buy houses and he said what do you mean he goes well like i walked in burger king the other day and i was sitting there and looked over and there's a young couple looking at homes magazine i went over and said hey y'all looking at houses they said yeah and uh uh

they ended up selling them house they said well weren't you scared to walk up to strangers and he said i did two tours in vietnam i'm not scared of people in burger king i'll tell you what a clear-eyed clear-eyed veteran will help solve our community challenges will be the best husband you could ever have the best wife you could ever have um go get the help you need yeah go do

it yeah and she she's brave to be fighting

this beside him but don't don't go all in don't be under the illusion that you can sort of do this stuff you gotta go all in and you you can do enough over here while he is over here tearing it down that's right that's not that's never going to work that's not all in on healing first and then go do the baby steps and you are going to sail through new baby step

you have a new baby step yeah you got to do this before you start the baby steps i like it that's that's what it amounts to and um that's true in any situation where there is a crisis of some kind and you know what you guys are facing is a crisis and a lot of pain a lot of hurt and uh we'll be praying for you we love

you yeah and we appreciate his service we appreciate your her service man your your uh your bravery and you know staring this demon down yeah if you hold on uh kelly if you can that phone went sideways like she dropped it down the garbage disposal i don't know but if you're still there kelly will pick up and uh we'll try to get you on john's show later

and maybe he can walk you through some other stuff and uh you know walk you through the the whole process personal finance folks is 80 behavior

we all know what to do it's 20 of knowledge yep it's not a lack of knowledge it's a matter of being able to do it and since it's 80 behavior it's also 80 relationships i was gonna say dysfunctional toxic screwed up twisted messed up family extended family uh misbehavior

addictions uh laziness whatever it is going on

in people's lives um affects your finances more than your lack of knowledge about how to do the math get people in your life if you find out hey i can't stop eating this thing i can't stop drinking this thing i can't stop filling the blank get people in your life there you go good show john thank you ma'am nice job james childs and kelly daniel in the booth

i am dave ramsey your host we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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you

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## 198. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 8, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Applause] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice anthony

o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today

author of the number one best-selling book debt-free degree and host of the ever-popular youtube and podcast show called the table which a new episode dropped today so what would y'all talk about i hadn't listened to today's yet i hadn't had a chance um what's what's who's on uh man uh our good friends dave uh mignon and big shakes uh oh wow yeah yeah yeah those two world-class entrepreneurs absolutely

and they came on and just really dove deep into how they started in in the entrepreneurship world how they got over some obstacles and has a barbecue operation both online and multiple restaurants and mignon has a cupcake operation tens of millions of dollars both of them doing revenue absolutely both world-class entrepreneurs and they both started from nothing nothing i mean young started with five dollars and a dream big shake started in new york with absolutely nothing

and now has three four shops uh multi-millionaires both of them and it was just a great show dave yeah it was a great show well they're great friends yes both of ours yes and um just

love them both and i met big shake through you you met mignon through me yeah yeah but uh they uh they're both just they they're just inspiring listen i mean people that want to start something and hustle and grind and turn over a rock and step on it man they get it done they they're getting it done and they're both kind of cool real cool i mean now big shakes

he he has that old man swag you know he he's just real cool yeah he's got yeah but he he's got more swagger mignon she's just she's just her she is he kind

of got he's got the strut down still she really is yeah i like it it's good man i can't wait to listen to it are you a lovely dad it's called the table yes with anthony o'neil and uh it's just dave it's is weekly podcast coming out and uh it's been on youtube for quite a while has quite a few youtube uh listeners and viewers rather

and so you can tune in and learn from two world-class entrepreneurs this week anthony he gets a little bit of everybody on there matthew mcconaughey was on there the other day and uh you had a table or a uh a panel for folks for uh black history month uh on there and so there's always something happening at the table there's always a conversation and be sure you jump in

and join it and check it out and next week dave we have some of our uh influencers we bought in you brought in we as a team we did we brought in some young influencers a couple of months ago and so i interviewed about half of them oh yeah and brought them in on the show so that's going to be a phenomenal phenomenon good i'm excited

lots of good conversations phone number here if you want to talk about your life and your money is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's

triple eight eight two five five two two five michelle is with us in harrisburg pennsylvania hi michelle how are you hello i have a question for you guys

and i wondered what you would think

my husband and i have signed papers through a real estate agent to buy a double a car apartment a house that has two apartments in it from his brother and

um in between the time of signing here and we have not made settlement yet uh but the

gutter has fallen on an electric line we were wondering whose duty that is to take care of it i want to say that i didn't understand whose duty to take care of what to take care of the gutter that has fallen on the electric line a gutter fell on the electric line well typically the seller would present a home that is operable to the buyer unless you unless you have specific language in the uh if it's a fixer-upper of some kind

uh the uh uh

you know you might have as is where is in the contract in case in that case you just bought whatever it is and you you got the gutter okay but most of the time when you're buying a b does it say as is where is in the contract i'm not

exactly sure okay it is a fixer-upper although we haven't made settlements so that doesn't matter yeah settlement would be based on you closing on the deal that you made if the deal you made on a fixer-upper is

we're going to fix all the repairs well a gutter hanging off ain't that big a deal to start with but um uh

i kind of have the feeling that you're getting cold feet

uh i haven't happened

where's your cold feet coming from michelle what was that where's the cold feet coming from the other half of it that you say it's half and half uh there's some family that thinks that we need to pay more and uh even though it's not worth that much who's the family are they the seller uh the father-in-law well it's none of his business unless it's his property is it his property no no okay okay well then it's that's

called nunya yeah none your business and it's also

very important michelle for you to you need to know what's in your contract i'm a little yeah uh disappointed that you don't know exactly what's inside the contract so the very first thing is you need to go back and read through or have an attorney read through everything so you know exactly what you're signing for uh where'd you get this contract this form uh the real estate agent

we are with oh there's an agent involved yes did you ask your agent about the gutter no okay that would be a good idea now is it is it your agent or is it the seller's agent michelle both oh it doesn't matter it

doesn't matter they can tell you what you've agreed to right you probably are using a standard form realtor contract that's a

what's called a boilerplate meaning it's a standard form uh and it may even have in it uh

as is where is if you're buying a fixer-upper they may have added that as far as repairs go so that they didn't so that the seller didn't get obligated uh to do this if i were selling that property i would have had that specific language in there so that whatever condition the property is in as of the closing date it's on you

if i'm supposed to present you with a retail deal meaning everything's and span and perfect then it would say that and you would have gotten a home inspector ahead of time if you did this properly and you would have known exactly what you were getting into but i think there's family drama here and a gutter is exposing that because let me tell you what it takes to fix a gutter 200 bucks so it's a non-issue

okay you don't not do a real estate deal or do a real estate deal over a gutter that's just not you know there's there's a lot of other crap going on here and um it may be that you don't need to

do the deal because of the family drama yeah and just look at brother and go you know what everybody's pissed off so let's just not do this you sell it to somebody else and y'all go get something else and but the gutter doesn't need to be the reason no and so yeah once you get to settlement you own the house it's over then so so folks here's the deal

everybody says don't do business with family don't hire family you know what that's wrong you can do business with family and you can hire family i got a family that works here what's the secret the secret is you have to be as clear or more clear in all of the dealings and expectations and paperwork than you would with someone that you never met before okay because it takes extra layers of communication to cut through family bs gotcha you have to be uber super crazy

blunt two before in the face clear yeah with family where with normal humans you could just look at them and say something and they could hear it but with family they get all caught up in assumptions they do right and so don't assume nothing write it down like it's a freaking business transaction because it is

and then you know exactly what you're getting into and you would never care about the father-in-law of the seller were you buying someone else's property

there you go that's how business works this is the dave ramsey show

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five 825-5225 i'm dave ramsey your host

our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you save a lot always use the magic word ramsey as your promo code today's question comes from zach in iowa my wife and i had a baby in august and now that

we are debt free we want to start investing in her future since we don't know her future plans and given the talk around the financial changes in academia would it be better to invest in a standard mutual fund instead of a 529 well first zach i want to say congrats to your newborn uh that's an amazing amazing thing uh but for me i'm gonna say stick to a 529

because i would say more than likely your child is going to want to go to college and you all are going to push for further education and so i would stick to a 529 and just make some adjustments there uh once she graduates from high school if she decides not to go to college completely agree the landscape may shift yeah it will shift it will it's shifting already yeah

and it's going to shift in the next uh number of years but starting a 529

you know and when you get up to ten thousand dollars you might pause a second and look around say now do i want to keep going right if you get up to fifty thousand dollars you may wanna pause and look around yeah uh long before you get to a hundred thousand right but you don't have to you're not making a hundred thousand dollar decision today right you can just start one

and then as it gets bigger you keep looking around and going well this is different now and this is different and um what has happened is the argument

and you talk about this in a debt-free degree yeah in the best-selling book of yours the argument against the cost the extreme

exorbitant cost of a four-year degree

is even stronger and was accelerated by

covid because you can't even freaking go on campus right right and so it's basically you're getting an online degree and everybody's going well my sure is crowding paying there for an online degree right and i was questioning whether i was going to do it with the college experience right but now when there's no college experience and now it's all online i'm sure i could just go on google and get that you know and so people are uh that is forcing covet accelerated a

cultural shift in us observing what's happening with our education so higher ed's um they're they're in a mess yes they are then if the biden administration goes through on some of its promises and forgives student loans and yet has the hypocrisy

to not stop the student loans yes

see if you're going to forgive them because they're evil you shouldn't keep making them absolutely agree dave because they're evil yep you cannot in good car i mean it's intellectually dishonest to forgive student loans and continue to make them right that's straight up pandering straight up politicians handing out money yeah that's all that is that's not a philosophical admission that the student loan crisis

is a screw job on the american public yeah and if you're going to admit that then you need to stop making them which they're not going to do by the way they're not going to do that dave and i know we're totally against debt but at least maybe put a cap on it you know don't make it unlimited for these these people it's just out of control

so but that's what's driven the call up this is unlimited supply of stupid money yes there's always somebody who will take the money yep and so you know government money which by the way you don't even have to pay back if it's forgiven so i mean this whole thing is getting super absurd so the guy's quest zach's question is really good it's really because that pressure was all

there and then add covered to it yeah and you go we're not even on campus yeah i'm sure not paying 50 grand a year for this right and people are starting to wake up and go hey i want a return on investment i want to pay get something you know get something i'm real proud of for what i paid for so online learning or reasonable state schools or community colleges or some of

the stuff we've been suggesting to avoid student loan debt for years yeah are suddenly much more popular but

that's going to change what the offerings are at higher ed yeah it really will over time so the answer your question is zach if if you said i'm going to put in 200 000 in my kids college fund this morning i would say yeah i agree with you don't do that because the landscape's changing i might not do that all at once but if you're gonna start gradually you're not gonna screw up having 10 grand under 529 so let's get started

but then continue to monitor the shift in the education culture and what's expected so now dave let me ask you this question uh you have several mutual funds i have not several i have a couple mutual funds outside of my roth ira now let's say if he maxes out his 529 he's already investing in all this other type of stuff can would you suggest he opens up

another mutual fund if he just wants to save more to give more to his kids and he can just have that in his name though okay and then that could be used for anything yes yeah i mean you can just go i'm gonna buy a piece of real estate with it i'm not giving it to the kid i got you so you can just build wealth and that always gives

you options for doing anything you want to do got you a pile of money in your name i would not necessarily pile a bunch of money in the kid's name okay you can if you want to

save some taxes but you lose a lot of control uh yep because see that mutual fund if you put in the kid's name it's called a uniform um well i can't call it out yeah

my brain went blank but anyway

uniform transfer to miners act the booth helped me out thanks guys my brain's locked up but uniform transfer to miners act and all that means is if you open a bank account with your bank for your child to have put their milk money in or their birthday money in because little junior has a little savings account at the bank right that's under the uniform transfer to minors act okay

because it's you can't technically open an account unless you're 21 anywhere you can't because you can't do you can't do business you can't you're not an adult so the parent opens the account in the child's name typically and the parent is named the custodian right and so but then that mutual fund

if we do that is taxed at that kid's rate so as it

makes money it has lower taxes than if it was in money got you i

got you because i'm gonna get my butt taxed off right i know that right and so it saves you some but again it's it's their money right when they turn 21 if they're doing cocaine they can go get the money yeah and so you you lose a lot of control over it until they're 21. gotcha uh and and so i

you know for what little tax savings there is i would just open it in your name and just book on but this higher ed

discussion and we've had it with dr john delony who's got a phd in higher ed and he comes out of the the university world as served in

leadership in multiple different universities but we're all observing that this is a

uh when when the dust settles on this after covet on what colleges charge and how many people attend them physically it's going to have change it's going to have accelerated the change yes that the student loan crisis started yes and i don't know to what extent but we're gonna see something shift absolutely to where you know my my university university of tennessee at knoxville with 30 000 students or got a guy sitting out here with a michigan hat on the university of michigan or the university of uh whatever kentucky or auburn or

alabama or california or whatever it's gonna look different yeah and those are state schools yeah now if you if you fast forward you go over into a super expensive private school they're going to feel it even more because people are going to go look the student loan thing is so bad that the democrats forgave it so i'm not signing up right right because not many people are

so dishonest just to sign up knowing they're going to get it forgiven right like i'm going to go get all i can get so the government pays for it i'm going to get on welfare because i don't really want to work you know most people aren't that lacking in honor they're not uh so that it's going to affect it the the if they do this forgiveness even

if they don't stop making them it's still going to affect the perception in the culture it has changed it's changed permanently and um you guys check out anthony's book

debt free degree and check out the borrowed future podcast on the ramsey network because it lays out in detail how

crooked and how

i mean filthy yes the student loan industry is especially and the government intent behind it yes i mean it is a colossal

mess it is an epic failure

man and uh you need to check it out and so and if you want to go to school and you should go to school by the way education is important i'm not we're not a group that says you don't need to go to college it's not worth anything oh it's worth it it's better to be smart than dumb it really is so you should go but you need to be smart about your education it's obviously moronic to not be

so i you know in debt free degree i'll help you learn how to do that it's uh like i said it's a number one bestseller anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today you are listening to the ramsey chef

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey thank you for joining us america patrick is with us in grand junction colorado hey patrick how are you hey dave hey

anthony uh thank you so very much for taking my call our pleasure how can we help well my wife and i read the total money makeover uh just two weeks ago wow and

yeah i am 41 years old

and we paid off our debt on friday

uh just three days ago wow

well now dave i gotta tell you someone

gave me one of your books when i was like 22 years old i'm not even kidding you and from that time till this time i've been on the dave ramsey envelope system

i have been real serious about not being debt i bought my wife's wedding ring for cash i paid for the wedding in cash my wife and i have really been blessed

because of the book we read of yours i mean forever ago okay and so the total money makeover the other day was just a tune-up then yeah it was because i i haven't been listening to the podcast i haven't read any more of your books and my wife and i just looked at where we were and we're like you know what we need to get on track so we only had twelve thousand dollars in debt we had one automobile we paid it off um i bought

the total money makeover uh it was the last purchase i made with my credit card the book came in the mail and there you are on the cover cutting up credit cards so i felt like a dumb dumb for that it's a blast from me yeah

but here's where here's where we're at we're on baby step three and um but we have been investing

a lot of money because we haven't been on the plan up until a couple weeks ago so got it my question is do i pull

some of that out for my six months of

uh fully funded emergency fund or how much do you have non-retirement investing we have 435 000

yes take enough out today and call it your emergency fund and put it in a money market right now let me explain that to you because it doesn't make sense yeah because you're going to hear me cry in a minute i don't know but it's not that much money it's not that much money what's your emergency for what is your three to six months of emergencies how much should this fund be so we were thinking

six months should be 36 000 okay so move

30 grand that's enough yeah you'll be fine because you got 400 other than that laying over there right okay so it's not that much money now here's the point okay that 30 000 has a new mission now

its old mission was to grow

as an investment your emergency fund is

not an investment

if you can swallow that it'll make this easier yeah it's not an investment it's insurance

now if you think about insurance versus investments insurance costs you money to protect the things

that make you money your house going up right you don't want to burn so we buy an insurance policy to protect it so insurance is defense investments is

offense so we're moving 30 000 over into defense

to protect so we don't have to cash out some of that 400 at exactly the wrong time because let me tell you what will happen if you think i'm going to use the 400 if something happens right uh-huh that's what most people think yeah what happens is you'll go i still can't cash out the 400. even though i need 7 000 to do dot dot

emergency i just can't do it and you'll pop it onto a credit card yep yeah and so the emergency fund is

the completed proper step in a good finance in a good financial plan but anthony it's very important that we change it emotionally from offense to defense absolutely dave defense is very very important i love how you called it out that so you know what he's going to see that 400 000 over there he's i don't want to touch that i'm going to take out a loan i'm going to put on

the credit card and and then next thing you know he's right back into what took him about 20 years to pay off everything yeah and so defense sets you up for effective offense okay and so i love how bad broke that down but thirty thousand dollars out of four hundred thousand dollars it's really not it's not a lot of money yeah you just ask tampa bay yes

wow defense sets you up for an effective offense yeah that was a good one dave no question i was going for the young man but man you just hit us hard without i mean it's just i i i'm not a fan of either team it's i'm not i'm not a hater on either team it's just just an observation of the game yeah true you you know it just

it sets you up yeah to win and defense wins games and defenses and that's that's not only true in football it's true in finance and so because here's what can happen you can be smart smart smart smart smart smart smart yeah and then have a moment and this is not the case with patrick okay yeah but just as another example like i've seen people who build up

and they got 400 grand laying there right and they've been smart all those years because patrick's been very smart right and then suddenly something comes along that's shiny this looks like a cool investment that their friend wants to get them into and you could put 200 000 over here and all this in one stroke of the pen you get stupid

yeah yeah and i've seen people just suddenly boom they just lose it yeah and so that's the that's the you know you've been really good at offense but you didn't have a good defense to keep you from stepping into stupid tacks yeah and i've done it i've never done it on the stage by the time i went broke i did it yeah but i mean since then i've even done stupid things that cost me money

but i have been smart enough after i went broke to do them small enough to where they weren't game ending and there's one other thing too i would suggest dave and tell me from wrong care that other 360 000 that he's going to have there sitting there give that a give that a purpose why is it sitting there it needs to go ahead and do baby steps four five

and six yes so if you've got a home yeah mortgage pay off your i'm going to start moving towards that with that other with that other balance that's going to even be harder yeah and another discussion but we'll get through baby step three first right zachary is with us zachary's in lexington kentucky hi zachary how are you i'm doing well dave can you guys hear me we can how can

we help good deal one to get you guys opinion on whether my wife and i are financially healthy enough to try and start a business okay we are 23 and 25

our only debt is we just built

a house for 350 000. uh we currently owe

270 on it okay no student debt

no car debt and we got about 25

000 in liquid cash um built up

you guys are on fire yeah what's your household income we're trying to be um our household income last year was 170. what kind of business are you wanting to start and what's it going to cost one to start a business that is a solution for treating hot tubs household hot tubs and pools i developed the product based on my own personal sufferings and that and we've got it

we've got to develop prototype and the next step would be is this a chemical product or a robotic cleaner uh chemical product chemical product okay so you can do it all by yourself for to start off right you know me

me and i one of my friends is a he's a

stay-at-home dad currently he's also debt-free outside of a mortgage okay so it's kind of something that we'd be taking on together my biggest drawback is

i've got a very good job and yeah i've

got about a guaranteed i work in sales i do logistics for a living yeah so what what do you want to spend to start the business uh very minimal only a thousand dollars well why wouldn't you yeah and you don't need him and you don't need to leave your job you don't need him you don't need to leave the job just start it yeah yeah and start selling it and after

you sell a hundred thousand dollars worth then you can quit your job and he can work for you there you go but you don't need a partner the only ship on sale is a partnership

i got you i mean it's a it's a best

friend kind of deal though it won't be bringing other people up with you yeah well that's okay he can work for you and you can pay him out of the profits that'll bring him up that definitely yeah and zach hear me clearly man uh you're a young man and i get it we want to be entrepreneurs do not leave your job keep working it until this can take care of your actual salary

you have coming in or closed yes but don't don't quit bro don't start it out of your garage i talked to a young man that they started the thing in his garage seven years ago did 25 million this year good gracious yeah not bad start it out of your garage and when it gets up close to your current salary then you can quit and walk away and

you need to um and you need to have your friend work for you he doesn't need to be your partner he said no you don't need a partner you have the stuff you've got the money you got everything

here

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if you feel like you're going to always be stuck paying off your debt well you don't have to be you think you're never going to have any extra money to save i think you're always going to be like a rat in a wheel well you don't have to be it doesn't have to be this way it's time for a new way of thinking it's time to reset

time to take control of your money instead of it controlling you you can millions of people have and we show people how every day and it won't take as long as you think it will with ramsey plus we'll kick you off with 90 days of guided help so you can put more of

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eight nine brian is with us in greenville south carolina hey brian how can we help hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up so my question today

actually is advice on what to do with our tax return um we've got about 6 000 planning on coming in from that and we're on baby step two so we're choosing debt to pay off but at the same time we just bought a house at the beginning of this year and it it's an older house 1957

and the inspector said that the ac unit actually is on its blast life and that it would probably be going out soon and we've made it thus far in the winter but

it from the outside it looks it looks pretty bad and so i'm worried that it'll go out if we spend this tax return we'll end up having to come up with money to replace that hmm so uh let's see you're in greenville

south carolina and it is february yeah

it's about you don't need an ac yeah

not too bad well it's it's i know

i'm poking fun at you

right so if it goes out in july you go

to walmart and buy a 10 box fan okay

how much debt have you got left

um well not including the house it's

about 30 000. okay what's your household income sir uh only about 26 to 30. for you and your

wife combined income my wife is a stay-at-home mom that's kind of getting paid under the table to babysit okay and what it what are you and so you're working 40 hours yeah how old are you 26.

what do you do a forklift driver for a

local warehouse okay okay all right so what are you going to be doing when you're 30 that makes twice what you make now

that's a good question i've i had

surgery a couple years ago and it is really limiting my options as to what i can do so i'm still actually in the process of trying to figure out what i can do um so it affected you

physically but not mentally yeah okay so you're gonna do something that's called white collar okay yeah right using your brain

yeah any education brian

uh three years of i.t but no graduate

okay all right so why are you not working in i.t um because in college i took the same math class about three times and wasn't able to pass it with a high enough degree to continue in the core class in the degree classes yeah but what did you learn did you learn programming a little bit of programming and uh networking okay so even if you couldn't pass the uh

the math class can you work on a computer yeah yes sir i pays more than driving a forklift most likely yeah like definitely brian let me answer this question man i don't i'm listening to you and i don't

i don't hear motivation i don't hear aspiration

i don't hear like yo i really want to do more like what why

why are you living today like where where do you see yourself what do you want in the next 10 15 years

well to be honest all the things i wanted to do i can't i wanted to join the military i wanted to be in the police force or something like that that's more physical and so i didn't really have a back-up plan when i heard that i need to be off my feet and i t i was never excited about because that's um one of my biggest weaknesses is being a gamer

and so i didn't feel like it would be a good idea to be in front of a computer all day you know with the chances of getting into different gaming stuff or whatever plus i like to be more hands-on so i didn't want to really be in an office if i could help it got you so you're going to be in an office yeah because you're not going to be in

the military and you're going to get off this forklift yeah and you're going to be doing you're going to be a software engineer dude yeah i mean if you love gaming won't we take all those skills and that love and let's use it for something the reason we're going into this is it solves your air conditioner problem yes because you don't have an air conditioner problem you have an income problem yep right that's why

we went

there okay so we're gonna get the cattle prod and zap you off that forklift ready

you feel it so i want you i want you

by uh this time a seat

by the first of march i want you to have

talked to three people in the technical world about you doing some side help for them while you keep your day job yes

i want you to stick your toe in the water and reset your dream

you're too young to have your only dream destroyed and you do nothing the rest of your life you have too much potential there's too much for you to do in this world yeah god was not surprised that you got

hurt and he has a plan for you right mm-hmm and

and i don't think there's nothing there's no shame in driving a forklift but i don't think you're there because it's your passion to drive a forklift i think you're there because you're hiding yeah yeah and it was the easiest answer

yeah like it was operating equipment it was default it was whatever program came up when you turned it on yeah yeah and here's the thing brian dave told you something that's key and i do not want you to miss it and before you hang up i want you to stand online because kelly is going to give you one of our friends ken coleman's uh book the proximity principle

he told you to talk to three people in the tech world and work for them on the side what's key is there is that not only will you get income on the side but you're going to build relationships what if you could make 200 000 a year working for a company that creates games that's it and that starts with the relationships as a gamer

well i think that would be better than any plan you had absolutely probably even the other plan that was your glory plan yeah i mean cause you love gaming

and your brain works that way i know that because you gravitated towards tech yeah none of this was an accident yeah

so hey man i just i i want good things for you okay so what i'm gonna tell you is i'm gonna tell you to take that six thousand dollars and pay it on your debt and i want you to get an extra job in the tech world and pay off your debt even faster and while you're working that extra job if your air conditioner goes out this summer you can stop your debt snowball for a little bit work 100 hours a week and at the extra tech job and then buy

you an air conditioner yeah but right now i want you working to that snowball but dude this is not about your debt snowball i think we got a hold of it it's about your career track and hold on kelly's going to pick up we're going to give you a copy of ken coleman's book go to kencoleman.com his website download all of his stuff it's all free and

we gave you the only thing he charges for which is the book and he will walk you through how to get this going man yeah and uh but it's exactly what you need to do you need to start poking around the career of the tech world and get off that forklift uh because

that's not going to take you where you want to go it's not because it wasn't your goal i mean i got a friend that owns a forklift company if you want to own a forklift company you can do it yeah if you if that's what you want to do but i don't think that was your plan nah you can hear it all in his voice dave and that's one thing well time is up but you called him out i did you called him out i didn't call about that you just

for his own good though that was a bus i love bus yes sir all right you loved it yeah

oh that puts this hour of the ramsey

show in the box

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five as

we talk about your life then we talk about your money and we talk about your life and we talk about your money and it's all here starting off this hour is gonna be cedar falls iowa elise is with us hi

elise how are you good how are you all better than we deserve what's up um so i just want to say um thank you for everything that you and ao do especially i am loving that

black panel uh conversations on his youtube channel um my question today is not so much

financial but just personal um so

i'm just wanting to know like the boundaries and guidelines of when it's appropriate to talk to a friend about a big life decision um and the fine line of wanting to help them um but not may not be close enough um to

the person to have the right to say anything on the subject so my uh friend is in a relationship

with this a very um very nice man

um but she is a believer and he is not

and she is adamant that she doesn't want to marry any guy who is a non-believer

and during this process their relationship they he's been very close to becoming a believer but they have had discussions of potentially becoming engaged maybe in like the next month or two and my big concern is that

she's that she's just going to get lost and it's going to be really difficult for their marriage and he knows that she won't marry him

unless he's a believer and so i'm just worried that the pressure of engagement is going to make him decide a decision that

isn't actually what he decides and he's actually going to want to become a believer not because of the faith but or his relationship with christ but more so to be with the girl and i just don't know if i am the right person to have that conversation i'm close with her um and i've kind of been announcing the shoes were reversed yeah and she came to you could you hear her i think so um is she close enough to you

yeah to tell you some kind of a hard

have a hard conversation with you and you hear it yeah well then you're close enough to her yeah and here's the thing um say it

say it with love say it one time and move on yeah amen you know this is not your this is not your crusade right this is a concern yeah don't lose any

sleep over it uh pray about it talk to her if she she receives it great if she doesn't you did your part as a friend but do not allow this and her decision for her life to impact you and how you're moving forward and also on the flip side and i could be wrong here so correct me firmer on dave this could potentially hurt the relationship depending on how

she receives it and you have to be okay with that as well yeah yeah that's the risk yeah real friends will risk pissing somebody off absolutely otherwise you're not a real friend yeah right now we're not setting out to

make them mad we're not setting out to hurt them yeah but you're will you know you know that that's a risk so if i were in your shoes what i would do is i wouldn't make statements i would ask questions that's so good dave write down five questions

and it might say okay you told me

long before you met so and so that you did not want to marry someone who did not share your faith in christ is that still true

that's question okay

um are you going to in

now that he's in the picture it appears you guys are getting really serious and the reason i'm talking to you about this is is i'm worried for you

and i want you to have a good life because i love you you're my friend and so i if he does not share

your faith are you going to go forward and marry him anyway

that's the second question you might ask um third question is how do you think that's going to work out yeah yeah i mean

these are questions and a part of that and part of that third question is they even go deeper that question is if y'all do get married how is that going to work out for your family how are you going to teach your kids you know if y'all have two doctrines that you don't believe on you know

um and then ask her a soft one ask her when it doesn't really come off so hard like hey so how is the relationship going that may be something to start off with and the the only other one i would throw in is are you concerned this is passive aggressive but it's still a question are you concerned he might pretend

to convert to a person of faith in order

to put a ring on your finger

yeah and if she says yes to that i might then say how can you guard against that but you know what dave the answer to that question is time yes slow down and those young men

we are known for saying yes to something or doing something that we already know we really don't want to do just to get the hand in marriage you know and so that's a real good question dave yeah and just slow down yeah anything listen if she's just all bubbly and over the top and is not listening and shuts you down on a series of five six questions that sound like that then you've done your job right because you really cannot you know it is not illegal to be stupid

if it was i'd have been in jail a long time ago [Laughter]

yeah i mean you're going to watch part of being grown up is you're going to watch people that you love in your family and outside your family people that you love do things that are harmful to themselves and you really can't do squat about it

it's just hard yeah it's hard watching your friends drive their car right towards the wall it is it's hard watching your uh friends

hit the wall it is or family members you know and you go there's a wall i know but it's fun

yeah i think the part for me davis it's hard up front but after i've set my pieces not hard you got to walk then though you got to be a you cannot be it's not a crusade it's five questions yep keep and it's short and it's very clear

don't sugarcoat it yeah and don't turn it into a preaching session that's good you're not there to preach yeah you're there to ask questions and that she should be asking herself yeah and you're just clarifying and you're saying okay it sounds to me like you're going to go forward with this and i'll just tell you i'm going to pray for you because i'm really concerned yeah and

then you just walk away from the subject and you can stay in her life but she's not the translation those my grandmothers should say those convinced against their will are of the same opinions still yeah yeah and i would definitely on this show people call in and after the third time that they want to argue with the same advice that i've given for 30 years you hang up on them

i just i'll put them on hold and move on because i talk to somebody that actually wants the advice because otherwise i'm just arguing with a wall yeah i just you you know what wasn't my dad you'd argue with the fence post y'all ever heard that one argue with the fence post but you know what dave country thing i want to encourage her to listen to john delony

so he he did a video on how to have the hard conversation with the loved one lots of questions yes this is the dave ramsey show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions with

a question is scott from los angeles hey scott how are you i'm good thanks guys good how can we help um i just uh well

my wife and i uh been listening for a long time just paid everything off except for the the house way to go thank you and uh we've decided we'd like to leave california we're kind of tired of it hey man yep so we've we're heading out here you're the only one i wish that was true maybe two years ago would have been better but we're here uh on our way

and uh we're kind of surprised in a way because a couple years ago home values were a little bit lower and we've realized that things are more expensive and now it seems like it's going to be more of a lateral move as far as uh the mortgage is concerned um we will save money but not as much as i thought and so that's of concern i i thought

it would be a you know we'd have more money left over if that makes sense uh sure what part of california you're in uh we're down in los angeles okay and what part of l.a marina del rey okay and you're comparing that to williamson county here exactly okay in tennessee outside of nashville yep okay um well home prices have gone up here but they've not gone up uh they've not doubled or anything like that um

and they're still considerably lower than marina del rey uh per square foot and so

forth now you are it's four square feet yeah oh yeah you can get a bigger house for sure yeah but yeah it's easier so the homes that you're liking over here are gonna use up the money from over there okay and um

well it's uh it's not a move down in that regard then because you're going to move up in lifestyle better schools we don't have to worry about the homeless out with our children but i mean and you're talking about more square feet huge 14 yeah 1400 versus 4700 yeah it's

shocking yeah okay so that's uh yeah um how much of a how much of a home are you looking to buy the homes here that i'm looking at are anywhere between a million and i'd say one to one point five yeah let's say i thought it'd be i thought it'd be 770.

so yeah it's just a you know you're gonna get 4700 instead of 1400 you're gonna get a different uh environment that you're gonna live in we'll just call it that to be nice and uh so

i penciled the numbers out and it's going to save me a couple grand a year and that's not including state income tax including taxes not including everything i'll just you know just move over the the mortgage is about the same yeah i'd love to pay the mortgage off someday but it's going to take some time yeah well you i mean as long as you're doing it on a 15-year fixed or less

and uh you you know you're still young you've got plenty of time to knock that thing out you've still got a game plan to knock it out you know put it on a 15 plan knock it out in 7 to 10 which is what i would tell anybody anywhere then that doesn't really change in this situation but more than anything you're just this trip over you're just getting

you got a little sticker shock this time yeah i expected just to kind of take a look at the area understand where everything was and then there happened to be a house that kind of fell out and that it's hard to find these you probably can do what you're talking about doing it won't be down all the way to from a million and a half down to 700

but you probably could take a step back like where you were in the other trip but you're going to go out one more county right uh into a much more rural setting

and you're going to get a different vibe in that county you're going to be in rural tennessee rather than in suburbia tennessee uh if you do that but uh you know that's

you know again your step there's lots of wonderful counties around here this isn't the only one but this is just the most expensive one where you're standing yeah but um yeah i mean i i don't i

don't i wouldn't say you're making a bad financial move okay you know you're not you're not being irresponsible or something by doing this but it sounds like you're just experiencing a little bit more of the just sticker shock and seeing the houses are just so massive it does kind of shock you for a moment i'm in a 30-year fixed loan over there so switching over to a 15

if i tried it that would probably that would change things yeah i'd probably be stuck with a another 30 i would think and listen you probably could buy less than 4 700 if you look around too yeah that's that's possible i mean there's there's other things in the market in the 3000 range and that kind of thing footage wise still double your square footage sure but um

and you know again it may just it may just be one of the things i do when i'm looking at property in an area that i don't know um is i just enjoy the whole process

of gathering every stinking piece of information in other words i want to know every neighborhood yeah i want to know this one over here and anthony's had you know he had a lot tied up out in uh an area that's just out south of here he's going to build a house and he decided not to and you know and then he ended up in downtown nashville and uh in a re-gentrified area

and so forth and so uh i just enjoy the gathering of information and i think you might need to do a little bit more of that too that might give you some more options it may lead you right back to where you were but you might be more comfortable with the option that you're looking at today after you've used the others to swing you back over to

it if that makes sense does that make any sense yeah yeah it's it's it's um it's hard to go back though i don't think i can go back and i just finished paying off me and my wife 400k so we're way to go yeah we're uh well welcome to tennessee brother thank you ma'am good to have you thanks guys open phones this hour this is the ramsey show anthony o'neil is my co-host today ramsey personality

answering your questions julie is with us in washington d.c hey julie how are you i'm good how are

you dave good how can we help i'm calling today

with a question about um using an inheritance that i

received to either invest or pay off my mortgage and

i'm a long time listener of the show and i know that you always say that you know if i'm already investing 15 then i should go ahead and throw extra money on the mortgage and i guess two parts of this is

you know i still have about 430 000 on the mortgage but i think we're probably going to move in the next two to three years and so thinking about it you know the inheritance is 150 000 so i can't completely pay off the mortgage and i'm concerned that i would earn more you know investing that for two years and getting a good return rather than you know what

the house might appreciate in the two years before we move and so i was hoping you could better explain why you recommend the mortgage route in this situation the house is going to appreciate exactly the same amount whether it has debt on it or not sure so you putting 150 on it doesn't cause more appreciation uh the only savings you would have would be the interest rate on

the that amount of debt uh whatever your mortgage interest rate is and as compared to what you might make on a mutual fund that might be small uh to your point to your concern uh

i would put it on the mortgage anyway

and the reason is that i am going to have a paid off mortgage whether it's selling this property and moving the equity to another property but i'm gonna have a paid off home as a part of your financial plan as soon as i possibly can because all of

the data with all the millionaires that we work with uh from the millionaire study that hogan did says that there's two primary things that cause people to have their first million dollar net worth and first one to five million dollar net worth and that is their 401k retirement savings yes and you're not going to put it in that because it's payroll deduct and um and a paid off home mortgage

it is we did not find a

single millionaire out of 10 000 of them that we studied that said i became wealthy because i never paid off my home and i used all of that money to invest right right all of them either had their homes paid off or were heading towards having their homes paid off they never once said oh i i would never pay off my home because i always want to invest

and one key thing she she said there today was she thinks so yeah so still put it on the mortgage because things may change too if you don't if you do stay you can pay off the mortgage if you don't stay uh you know they're going to give you that money at the closing when you sell the house exactly in the form of equity and come back to

you so you don't lose the money what you are going to lose potentially in the short term is what you would have made in a mutual fund versus your mortgage interest rate which might be fifteen thousand bucks a year might be

two thousand bucks a year something like that um but i i'm going with the data and the data says paid off home one step to being millionaire and i'm always going to move that direction and so that keeps me right on those baby steps you can certainly do what you want to do that's what i would do this is the dave ramsey show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage aaron and whitley are with us whitney are with us hey guys how are you good good how are you welcome where do you guys live franklin furnace ohio oh fun welcome to nashville what brings you all the way here a debt-free scream i assume yes sir awesome how much of you guys paid off we paid off 30 thousand dollars in six months all right way to go and your range of income during that time uh started out about 54 and ended up about

80.

okay how come he wasn't first how come he went into it at first uh i i wasn't like she she was going to

church at the time and i was just led way far astray

she brought me back and you know

here we are okay all right so tell us the story whitney what do you what happened from your perspective um they just had a class at church and our pastor led it um and then i just kept pushing you know you need to listen to dave ramsey you need to listen and he was hesitant but then finally when it was his idea he was on board okay all right

so you just started listening to podcasts while you're out of town or what yeah we picked up a lot of overtime so i was driving to lexington kentucky it's probably about two hours yeah um and i mean you can't

do nothing while you're driving i just ended up finding you and then i started downloading the podcast and i mean i just it just ate it all up man boom just like

that so you guys decide to okay we're gonna do the financial piece university the dave ramsey stuff wide open we're gonna get on a budget we're gonna get out of debt what happened uh we put disney world on a credit card and that's really what set it off yeah oh wow

so how did that say this last trip huh

yeah i had this hair brain idea that you know if you don't you get these credit cards and you uh well we'll just put all our bills on this and we'll get you know the 50 points or whatever and

it doesn't work so don't do that [Laughter]

so whitney he comes home and says now it's my idea and you went finally yes yeah okay all right

so what was the hardest part of getting out of debt all the extra hours i guess but yeah i'm getting on the same page i

would say for me i'm the free spender

didn't want to give up anything but then once we got a budget we didn't really give up as much as i thought how did y'all do a budget with uh with aaron working so many hours

um uh my brother my oldest brother he is a super nerd so he's like he loves spreadsheets and stuff and i just asked him one day to help us with us and we downloaded it on our phones uh google sheets and we punched

everything in and that you know once a week or once every two weeks we'd have a budget meeting and at first it was hard but now it's it's like the most exciting day of the week for me oh bad that's so cool what was what would you say is the secret that you want to tell everyone to young people listening to you right now what should they be doing right now well here's one thing why should

they get out of debt um because like even right now i feel like we're kind of ahead of the game but we're really not i mean we're i'm 33 she's 31

and i just think back all the dumb stuff we did you know decades ago on how much money like we would have right now and it's just uh it's it's

it's fun being weird i'll just say that yeah how does it feel to be completely done amazing yeah free right yes yeah yeah

yeah since it so we started you know

back uh was january last year

so we was out of debt in july

and here we are february this year and we're on step five so wow i mean we we cash flow

we cash flowed a down payment for our new old house uh we you know just it's awesome wow way

to go you guys congratulations feels good huh what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh for me it's just patience

one of the verses that really helped me is romans 5 3 it says we glory and tribulations because tribulations uh bring forth patience which brings forth experience character and hope yep so i mean if you just stay that course you can get through anything so wait wait wait you see what just happened today i did it he just quoted scripture he just quoted scripture i heard that

and six months ago he wasn't in the church i heard that this is what i'm talking about there you go i'm more excited about this and you paying off your debt i ain't gonna lie that's good man and that's one of my favorite scriptures i love her okay then rejoice in your suffering i don't think so well suffering produces perseverance and perseverance character and character hope and hope is a gift of

the holy spirit yeah well done guy that's awesome man thank you very cool i love it good for you guys

so fun and the kiddos uh what are their names and ages bring them into the shot uh braden is 14 and amelia is four

so have they been tracking with you on this or you've been dragging them yeah we dragged uh braden we actually read through uh the smart money smart kids oh wow so

and it must be sinking in because he just his ipad that he had for like i don't know seven eight years crapped out and he bought his own new ipad

whoa where'd he go man yeah well done

i told him if he gets any scholarship too we have a five percent cash back so ah he's been hitting that pretty hard too nice very nice well you guys you've changed your family tree you not only changed the way you you had a little bit of debt you cleaned up but on top of that you changed your life your marriage your parenting everything i'm so proud of

you well done guys very very well done excellent job good stuff all right aaron and whitney braden and amelia lexington ky area thirty thousand dollars paid off in six months making 54 to 80 lots of

hard work in ot count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three

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[Applause]

that's how it's done right there man that is fun oh you know these stories almost always

contain the part where for a married couple anyway yeah where the other one had to get on board yep and when that happens it's like ding ding here we go and they clicked game on and it clicked game on here sounds like it even helped their marriage dave yeah absolutely no question about it

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five sam is with us in hawaii hi sam how

are you hi mr ramsey good to talk to you you too i'm short on time give me a question right quick okay so um we just got a newborn baby

and uh uh the the girlfriend is at home with the kids so we got a single income uh i'm a full-time uber driver and i've accumulated some traffic tickets um that i think might be affecting my background check and uh i'm thinking if the background check doesn't go through i'll be out of a job in the meantime i also just found out i have eight thousand dollars in taxes

after all this coming year in april what do you make in revenue what would be about 4 000 a month and what is the uh tax what are the uh the traffic tickets cost

the traffic tickets are about 1200.

we'll take them out first yep and then you got to get on this you got to get on those taxes and you got to get on it hard you're probably gonna you're gonna need to file your income tax return on time even if you don't pay

and then you you contact the irs about what's called an installment plan and put that on payments until you can clear it and dude you want to clear it as fast as possible because the penalties and the uh

interest are ridiculous dealing with the irs plus they have almost unlimited power so you're not probably not going to quite clear it all by april 15th but you get the tickets cleared first and then get after the irs fast but by mid-summer it all needs to be gone and oh you got to start setting back your quarterly estimates so you don't know taxes next year

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so

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today if you're wondering if you should be buying or selling a home or if you should put it on hold well this is a big financial decision and big financial decisions should happen on your timeline well dave i'm panicking because of the pandemic dave i'm panicking because of interest rates and dave listen every time you're panicking if you start your sentence with i'm panicking or i'm afraid everything after the sentence is something you shouldn't do

don't do stuff because you're afraid that's never i mean unless it's get out of the way of a car or dodge a snake but other than that you don't need to make decisions when you're afraid they're always bad decisions fear does not induce clarity

quite the opposite so don't wait around for the stars to align to buy a home or sell a home truth is you can win in any market in any season if you put the right people on your team if you want to find a top real estate agent in your area like one of our endorsed local providers our elps they use years of experience and success and change in changing markets to serve you they know what things look like they know what's happening out there and that's the only agent in your area i

trust if you want to make a move that's right for your family text house 233 789

33789 text the word house and you'll get somebody in your corner to help you and you'll make much better decisions

not time to make decisions when you're scared right right absolutely dave anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today claire is in idaho falls idaho hi claire how are you

hi dave good how are you better than i deserve what's up hi um me and my husband we're graduating college we've made it out debt free yay um

yeah so he's doing software engineering

so we're going to move just wherever he gets a job because he's going to make more than i do um i've been working putting him through school just working at the courthouse and there i have about two thousand dollars that i've put away in the retirement fund um through my work i'm not going to continue working there so i'm wondering if i should you know pull the 2000 for my retirement

and then what i should do with it ah no you should never pull from your retirement i don't care if it's only a thousand dollars uh what i want you to do is transfer that over claire to a traditional ira uh get on the phone with a smart investor pro or you could possibly do that yourself with two thousand dollars but i would suggest a smart investor pro

and just let it sit there and start investing into the ira moving forward until you both land a job and then go back into uh your matches then you're roth then traditionals those are the three main things i teach and we actually teach when it comes to investing but do not pull it out don't spend it go ahead and transfer it into your retirement age direct transfer rollover into an ira is what he's talking about with a smart investor pro

and they can help you pick a mutual fund to do that it's not the end of the world if you cash out a two thousand dollar account it's just kind of silly to give the government half your money right and that's what you're gonna do so i wouldn't do it uh we don't cash out retirement accounts as unless it's to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure you're certainly you know not going to have either one of those in

this situation tracy's in lexington kentucky hi tracy welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi dave i have a quick question i think it's pretty cut and garage to whether or not to hit i'm 53 years old my husband's a retired school teacher i still i started late i spent time with the kids so i'm seven to nine years before i can get before multiple full teacher pensions my question is

we have 14 years left on our home mortgage at a rate of two points our interest rate is 2.75 do we continue to get outside of our pension now we'll both have a pension we have 401k and raw what should i be hitting the hardest with the market returns it looks like the 401k returns much better than 2.75 which is on our home mortgage are you free except your

home no we have 17 000 on one vehicle

before we even have this discussion that has to go okay so your number one thing is clearing that up do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses yes how much uh

right at twenty thousand oh good pay your car off today yeah oh okay yeah that's all yeah

then then your next number one wait

you're then your number one goal and i want you to do a written detailed budget with your husband your number one goal is to build your emergency fund back up yeah we'll show his annual income

um right out right at 100. good so this

is gonna you're gonna do this very quickly very quickly very quickly if you're not willing to pay the car off today you should sell it yeah okay because you've already

you're already owned the car the only question is are you going to own the debt so we're going to clear the debt now you don't have a car payment anymore we're going to build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses that's going to take you about four months is all and then we're gonna start baby step four which is 15 of your income going into retirement and everything else we can find we're going to throw at that house yeah okay okay and i i think i'm at

nine eight eight percent into my retirement already i forgot to mention that that's already you need to yeah you may want to stop that temporarily until you get that emergency fund rebuilt and then start it again at 15 and that's household incomes your husband worked

um he is currently starting a second of business he's a with a retired teacher and he's currently starting but that's not income anything expense nor income at the moment okay if it starts creating an income 15 of your household income goes into retirement that's what we call baby step four that's when you're debt free with an emergency fund that's the first three steps then four is 15 of your income going into retirement everything above 15

and by the way without this big stinking car payment and by living on a budget you're going to have money above the 15 to go ahead and clear that mortgage off because in seven years i want this house gone our house debt gone and when you move into retirement you're gonna have a healthy 401k a healthy pension he's going to have a business going and you're going to have a paid for house that's where

you want to be at retirement yep right yeah that's my goal

i come i have a money fear i'm one of those people whose parents didn't do they did everything i shouldn't do so i have almost irrational fear of not having money when i'm older well the step that we gave you

gives you both wealth and stability yes

wealth is in the 401k stabilities in the paid for house right and the the process i just gave you is the shortest distance between where you are and there okay

15 into retirement after the truck's paid pay off the truck for sale after the emergency fund's in place

after emergency fund's back in place okay then 15 into retirement and everything else we can squeeze out of the budget we chunk on the house how much do you owe on your home uh

184

yeah it's going to be it's probably going to be seven to nine years before you're done yeah you may not have it done in seven years but you're going to be close depending on if your husband starts adding some income to the equation or not yeah and he starts adding income to the equation you start throwing it at that and don't allow your fear tracy to prevent

you from getting to your your purpose as far as not your purpose but your future pay off the car today all right pay it off today and you'll get closer and closer and closer to your dream i think you can do it within seven to eight years um but the numbers do show seven and nine but i think if you and your husband really sit down get on a clear budget

i think you can be there within seven years twenty five thousand dollars

is eight years out of a hundred

sure you can do it faster than that probably you probably can do it in because the income should go up with the business yeah yeah i i do i think you're gonna be done in seven years if you stay concentrating on it right i mean you don't have to live on beans and rice to do it but i think you're just going to pay attention yeah just be very intentional with your money hang on i'm going to send

you a copy of the book the total money makeover which outlines those baby steps that we were using in detail it's like the baby steps on steroids that's what the book is and it's the best selling book we've ever done because of that because it gives everybody a clear path of exactly what to do here what to do there what to do there and what to do

there that's simple and so um very very cool good stuff

we appreciate you calling in all right

anthony that about puts another hour down well done know the hour it's been fun dave i like rock and roll james childs is our producer kelly daniel is our associate producer i'm dave ramsey your host this is the ramsay show

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hmm [Music]

this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple

eight eight two five five two two dion is in

bakersfield california starting this hour off hi dion how are you how you doing dave finally got the

chance to talk to you and i'm sorry i'm trying to this is my first time talking i don't know how to do all this but i'm trying i've been reaching out trying to reach out to your company for years now this is my first time well i'm glad you got through how can we help you today um i just purchased my first home

and two years ago i'm trying to figure out a way as a blind person how to pay off my mortgage faster than 30 years okay okay dion

did you say a blind person

excuse me i'm sorry did you say a blind person yes sir okay so what do you do for a living i receive social security okay all right

and how expensive a home did you buy in bakersfield california uh it's actually right next door to in lancaster but it's uh we paid 240 000.

you said we are you married via yes sir okay what does she do for a living she's a um

caregiver she takes care of her elderly okay so what's your household income then uh i received social security 900 a month she receives about

2 600 a month okay

after we moved into our house she was taking care of one of the people she was taken care of and um

their spouse passed away and we took them in and we've been doing it so we take care of elderly in our home as well and what does that pay

we receive about we have two patients

right now we receive about twenty two hundred dollars straight across money oh okay okay so that's about fifty five hundred a month yeah that makes that makes that makes us a little bit i didn't think you were paying a mortgage on a two hundred something thousand dollar house with thirty six hundred bucks so this is helpful good okay good so you did that because you had this mortgage and you had to do something right yes sir good well no well actually my dad was living with us before he passed away too so that was another reason why we were able to get the house and my wife was receiving i had more patience at the time before the coronavirus gotcha so what's your question for today then i'm trying to find out how to pay off my home faster i've been hearing stuff i've compared all faster than 30 years i've been following you since i've been since i was 16.

go there uh dion do you have any other consumer debt excluding your mortgage no we don't have any credit card debt we pay all credit cards in full every month we own both of our cars

so no we don't have any debt at all so you do have debt you just paid off every month oh well i i follow stupid people and

tell me about credit cards because he said he has credit cards and he pays it off every month oh okay but you don't have a balance on them so yeah yeah so you're going to get debit cards to replace those but then as far as paying off the house early you just we're going to put you on a budget make sure you have your emergency fund in place

and start saving 15 of your income towards retirement past that every dollar you can find up to baby step six is gonna go towards the house unless i miss something that's where he is yeah no he didn't miss nothing at all dave i mean i definitely want to say uh get rid of the credit cards though i mean because that's going to put you back into debt um eventually

i i'm just going to say that so first time there's a hiccup you're going to end up and you're going to look over on those things there's going to be a balance he's right about that but um i think the big thing here is is you guys have done a great job of scrap being scrappy you're hustling you're grinding you're adding you know adding people into your home that you're taking care of she's working

you know you guys are doing everything you can do to make sure that you make the payments on this house and you've always figured out a way you know and so that's good news right and i would just use that scrappiness and not use it as a way to uh save your bacon every time but instead be a way that you uh that you're actually prospering and that comes from working

the baby steps and doing that with a budget and you know baby step one is debt free except the home you've done that two is an emergency fund of three to six months or two is debt snowball three is emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you move straight up through that process yeah james is with us in seattle hi james welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave anthony thank

you guys for taking my call sure what's up um so my wife and i are considering

quitting our jobs and going back to school she wants to do a career change and i kind of want to accelerate my master's program it's in a it's a four-year program it's a part-time program and i kind of want to get it done in two years uh so we were uh considering uh quitting

our jobs um we make combined 220

and uh the only debt that we have left is our house which we owe about 130 on

um so you want to get your max version what my master's it's my mba it's in it's an

executive mba yeah um i'm a corporate

controller a financial controller right now and i would like what now i make 130 and she

makes 90. and you'd like to be a cfo yeah i'd like

to be a cfo my goal is by 35. and you think you have to have an mba to be a cfo um you know i've been looking a lot and they usually require like a cpa which i have and an mba i think that

would help with um you know i don't have a ton of

years of experience um my cfo this is a 300 million dollar

company my cfo does not have an mba

oh gotcha yeah just as a history

yeah just a heads up yeah i'm okay if you go get it no quitting your job to go get it quitting is a bit extreme yeah jobs not just job jobs because both y'all want to quit what is what's her degree field what's she wanting to go do um she wanted to do um she wanted to get

she wanted to be a lawyer and then she decided that she didn't want to do that she's got her four-year degree and she's a paralegal she actually wants to switch to health care management

okay and she has a four-year degree in what uh pre-law okay and what does she do now

she's a paralegal now she's a paralegal okay and she wants to move into the health care field and so she wants to get a master's in that management she wants to get a master's degree she either wants to uh she wants to get like a four-year degree in her uh health care management how old are you guys for her master's in healthcare i'm 31 she's 29.

okay okay well i i have

a we have we share

a view of education that

um with a few rare exceptions the

primary use of education is to increase income yeah and to move into a career field that you love okay and so um it is not something that you

just collect like thermo degrees on a thermometer and it is not something that you

have to have it is is what is necessary

for you to go win and um

in your case i would do the mba as an executive level and keep your position uh would definitely not quit in her case

i would probably do the same thing i'd probably pick up some night classes and begin to move towards health care as a career move rather than just quit your jobs you're making a great income i think you can make a more gentle transition than this and i think you should [Music]

you know healthcare has gotten to be ridiculous it puts people uh you know on the brink and so it would have put us on the brink had we not had chm chm saved our life same doctor

financial life christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget-friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today if you're trying to find the perfect valentine's gift consider this your suggestion

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and marriage live stream is this coming friday february the 12th for those of you that

are already ramsey plus members it is free to you so you don't want to miss out on that check it all out i am dave ramsey your host this is the ramsey show anthony o'neil my co-host joins me today ramsey personality matthew is with us in cleveland ohio hi matthew how are you

hey guys how you doing thanks for taking my phone call sure

quick question um i just got done reading the total money makeover i'm in the middle of a debt free degree right now both great books really love them thank you um my wife and i are in the process

of um planning out our budget and

looking through our debt and seeing what we owe we've already got enough money in the bank for baby step one so i guess we'd currently be on baby step two good so in in the total money makeover

um i believe you said to

divest from your retirement investments um temporarily no just stop actually not

don't take the money out yeah i'm sorry i'm yeah i apologize that's right i'm sorry that's okay um to stop adding uh so

like between my wife and i that's probably almost 500 a month which um but my my question is

in regards to uh my son's 529 so i've got

a 15 year old son who's actually the youngest of three i've got two that are in college right now one pace board herself um and the other one we're helping with the oldest one's got kids and she's single so she's basically getting college for free um through grants and scholarships

um so sh we i actively contribute like a hundred dollars a month towards this 529 and he's already in high school and there's not terribly much money in there about 5500 bucks in there but

my question is do we also do the same with that stop actively contributing in that what's your household income

gross is about 150. okay 100 bucks a month 100 bucks a month is 1200 a year

for three years before he goes to college is 3 600 yeah right this does not solve your college problem it doesn't

right so that's

my i was asking what i was actually thinking of doing was leaving it in and i know i you're gonna i know bad idea with uh student loans but what we were looking at dealing with leaving it in and letting it grow for the other four years and then taking what we have after the additional four years after the seven total years and putting that down off of whatever we can't afford yeah instead what i would tell you to do is let's work the baby steps

and um if you're reading debt-free degree you know he doesn't he you don't have to have all the money saved for him to go to college he just has to choose properly yeah so we're going to work for baby steps you're going to be how much debt do you have not counting your home

um numbers-wise i haven't finished

adding it up it's over hunter um my wife and i both

have student loans and then we co-signed for um not cosign but we have parent loans for my other son actually my student my student loans are actually going to be paid off in may of this year because i'm a government worker so i'll have made my 120 on time payments and i did talk to yeah matthew who's the first thing um

the first thing you need to know exactly what are you up against you need to know your numbers okay before you can really fix this situation you need to know exactly to the t how much debt that you're in so this means you need it on the budget okay so that's the very first thing we've got we've got leases on cars which

we're working on trying to get out of good um so that's part of it um we lease our cell phones which we're gonna we're gonna throw into the snowball and get rid of uh very soon good the only other mortgage we the only only other debt we have after that is our student loans yeah um cars are student loans okay yeah yeah so you've got it

the point being making what you make i

think it sounds like you are going to be debt free except your home by the time your 15 year old gets to school you'll have your emergency fund in place and um i would love for you to put 15 of your income away beginning with baby step 4 towards retirement and then cash flow is college beyond that if you put retirement on hold for a couple of years to cash flow his college oh by

the way he's going to do all the other things in debt-free degree in order to go to college yeah but you should map out a thing to where you are debt-free before he gets to school baby step two and have your emergency fund in place and then with 150 000 income and using the debt free degree plan you ought to be able to cash flow his college no student loans

and i would have stopped your retirement during that time until you get there and i would have stopped his 529 until you get there um and you're probably never going to restart it because by the time you get there you're probably going to be writing checks for college yeah and matthew have a conversation with your son now let him know like hey your college experience will be based upon your grades your scholarships based upon

you so if you really want to go to this particular school inside of ohio you're going to have to step up to the plate now is a great time to have that conversation with them and make sure that he's reading the book with you because we walk you through the step-by-step process what are the classes how does he prep for the act in the sat make sure that he's playing a huge part of that

and you're not just carrying all the weight okay because if he gets good scores on those and takes the classes and takes them again and super scores them that's going to qualify him for yet more scholarships he's going to be working while he's in school and he's going to choose a school the two of you together are going to choose a school that you can afford in ohio yeah it's going to be an in-state state school yes uh he's not going to a 100 000 year school no

you don't have that money he's also not driving a bentley no because and there's no shame in either one of those and he might even go to community college for the first year or two to get some of his basics out of the way before he transfers to a four-year so any of those plans and all of those plans get this kid through school debt-free uh and you're going to be able to help a lot just out of your monthly budget yes

because you're not going to have any payments except your house payment by the time you get there but you're going to take the radical steps to do that i sure hope that your theory on the student loan forgiveness works out it has not worked out for hardly anyone virtually no one has gotten that approved uh and so there's uh i saw the staff the other day it's up to

i think it's up to 30 000 people have now gotten their forgiveness but it's 400 000 have applied and didn't did yep and so um you know and of course

current political arguments are there's going to be some forgiveness in addition to that i will see but uh um [Music] you know i i you've got to lay out a

game plan to where you clear this debt these car leases these student loans these parent loans 100 get your emergency fund in place only then do you restart your 401k and you lay out a detailed game plan to cash flow college using the debt free degree so book and process to do that yes and i

think it's all possible absolutely but basically uh seven years from today yeah three years more of high school four more years of that you know you're gonna be you're the last one off the payroll yeah and um that's that's what we called it when our kids left they got them off the payroll now they're on this payroll i like that picture though yeah that's it they're off the payroll you can do it it's just gonna have to be very detailed and very intentional and uh no wavering and no waffling

like those cars don't need to be still sitting in the driveway the freaking payment on them this is the dave ramsey show

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foreign

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matt and sarah are with us in minneapolis it says on my screen you guys are debt free congratulations [Music] well done how much have you paid off

um 141 000. cool how long did this take

uh it took me 17 months okay and your

range of income during that time uh we started at about 235 thousand

and we ended at two hundred and eighty thousand wow what do you do for a living

um i am in software sales i'm in

physical therapy okay wow cool

so i'm guessing some of this 141 must have been student loan debts well you guessed right

how much was it so the student debt was

about 130 000 um and then the remainder is about

seven thousand for auto and then the rest was just impressive i'm having trouble hearing you you're gonna have to get where you could talk directly into your phone okay how much was the student loan debt

against 130 for the student loans okay

good oh my gosh so 11 wasn't about 4 000

for credit card okay so tell us the story what happened 17 months ago that got you guys started on all this uh i mean we really just got sick and tired of being sick and tired i mean we had two we have two little kids and we really just wanted to you know be able to you know have the future for them that you know we wanted for our family and it was just getting kind of ridiculous because we you know had an awesome income but we

felt like we were broke and we

you know kind of finally just came across some of your books um and actually we started listening to our podcast and we really started getting gazelle

intense after we listened to our first debt free stream um that we kind of hit home with us and really inspired us and got us motivated and we just got

gazelle intense since then wow very cool

good for you guys so you did it a hundred and forty one thousand in 17 months that's like seven eight thousand bucks a month yeah you're chunking on this man i mean this is big time uh so what do you tell people the key the the thing they have to know if they're gonna get out of debt what are the keys the well the key the first key for us was 100

the every dollar budget um well like i said maybe take a step back but why so we really thought about why we want to do this and that was so important because so many times during this we would um fall off even for like a week and then we would get back to why we were doing it and that would get us back and motivated and then

we use that gazelle intensity when we did have that focus and then the budget just to keep us on track because yeah we were definitely spending more than uh than we were meant to be spending at that moment yeah so what's your big why

well definitely just being able to

be outrageously generous i mean it kind of started like i said heading home when we just heard all the people on your show saying like we want to live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else and

you know we want to be able to do that and we felt like we were you know we should be able to do that but if we never get rid of this debt that we're never going to be in a winning situation um and so that was really kind of our big why yeah so what was the hardest thing throughout this journey throughout these last 17 months

the hardest thing oh well

i think i mean we just there were so

many you know bonus and commission checks that came in and i remember just kind of crying like each time one came in because i knew that we didn't get to do anything with it like i couldn't buy a new car we couldn't

um you know kind of do all the things that we saw other people doing right and we knew that it just had to go to our debt um so i think that was definitely the hardest thing is just you know stop comparing to other people and just kind of run your race um but we stuck with it

so good very very good very cool

well done so now that you're out how's it feel amazing i really still can't believe it

i mean it's we've and again we've heard this on your show so many times but we've started making such different decisions because

of you know our ability now to not

you know have like five six seven thousand dollars going towards debt every month um so it's really it's really i would like to say change our family tree yeah so most of the student loan debt was from my as if you from them it was like it felt like there was a constant chain um just holding me back all the time with this and it finally just felt like i was free um and and not having that burden

on my shoulders at all times and it's just been so um relieving and we feel like we can

make decisions that we never would have even thought about before so for example we we just decided uh this month that we're going to start our own business and that is was completely um not even

imaginable three years ago yeah yeah wow

very cool this is exciting so proud of

you guys very well done yeah yeah we appreciate

it we uh we uh took what you said to heart and it made all the world of a difference yeah you guys are incredible we've got a copy of chris hogan's book for you every day millionaires there's no doubt that that is the next chapter in your story you have this fabulous income and you have this ability to control money now instead of it or the lack of

it controlling you you guys have worked together you're a team you've done everything the right way very very well done congratulations it's not a perfect process but it gets you there and now you're free yeah so very well done thank you

matt and sarah minneapolis minnesota 141

000 paid off in 17 months making 235 to

280. count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one

[Applause] [Laughter] i love it well done you two

very very well done tyler is in kansas city hi tyler how are you i'm well how are

you guys doing better than we deserve you got a little football hangover today no so i am a king tom fan so i'm really excited about how yesterday went oh man

you're on pot you're unpopular in your own neighborhood yeah man we're going we're going to end this car right now [Laughter] how can we help you today sir well yeah thank you for uh taking my call yeah i've been a big big fan of your show for a while dave and read the total money makeover as a wedding gift my wife and i um as of monday last week we were officially on baby step four i submitted my uh

application or whatever on fidelity to get my uh retirement funded feels good now that i'm on babies what was that it was good doesn't it it does but now that i'm here it's like you know i kept pushing to get to through baby step three and now that we're here it's like now what that's why that's why i thought i'd give you a quick call um so my question is twofold i've been

reading several books one of which is rich dad

poor dad and he talks a lot about asset generating um or inc asset generating income but uh i i know what you'll say to me right now so i'm going to ask that question the question i'm having is i'm wondering i'm in a career where

i i work in a public accounting firm

where i don't make quite as much as the market pays so i'm in a position where i'd be able to leave where i'm at right now for a fairly significant pay bump like what's that what do you make now what would you make if you left yeah yeah great question so right now i make 67 and i've had several friends leave within the last couple years and they're both over 100 probably close to 110.

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our scripture of the day proverbs 13 11

wealth gained hastily will dwindle but whoever gathers little by little will increase it

winston churchill said continuous effort not strength or intelligence is the key to unlocking

our potential anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with tyler in kansas city he's in public accounting

has a job making sixty seven thousand as the opportunity baby step four just got there it's the opportunity to possibly take uh a position making almost double that somewhere else and uh i said well if the people are high quality why in the firm is high quality why would you not do that and you were beginning to explain something to us as we headed into the commercial tyler what was that yeah

thanks for coming back yeah so and this is kind of goes back to the what we've been we being accounting majors have been taught throughout uh college is there's a certain threshold that you hit like it's almost you know it's a five-year benchmark that you hit in public accounting and at that point you've kind of earned your stripes and then you've increased your earnings potential and so it's almost like a long game a long-term game that they're that

you know i'm trying to think long-term that if you leave before this five years you've limited your earnings but to your point

you know if i use my sorry i'm confused

if you stay making half of what you can make you are earning your stripes how

yeah this is this is the conundrum that

we you know i've been wondering is it you get a title that sounds like something from the 1950s

it's very archaic no but it's not you know the truth is is that the money to be made in your field is not in public accounting

long term it would be but that's 10 15

years out well building a book of business uh yeah

once you're a partner and it's about your book of business and it's much more lucrative but as a first couple years it's it's certainly not i see okay so you're on a model where you're trying to make partner much like a law student where they work your butt off you get nothing for five years and then hopefully you can get your foot in the door it's just yeah it's very similar yeah okay all right

so that's what you mean by that so if you went the other direction why would you not be on the same track you're you're working you know you're working for a a corporation doing accounting at that point you're not up for partner you're not going to stay in that world is that what you're saying yes okay so what does a partner make it's a place you work now yeah it's kind of a smoke

and mirrors question but i would say probably close to 800 depending on market and clients but

800 and above okay and you're how far out from that oh 14 years yeah

yeah and to be pretty candid that's not really where i want to live you know i'm not

real sure where i want to go but i'm pretty sure i don't want to be a partner so it's almost a question of is it worth sticking around longer for potential higher earnings outside of public accounting because i stayed longer here if that makes sense yeah i think i'm

moving on yeah i'm glad you said that dave that's just my inclination and because i think that the other thing that i see with folks um you know in your field is is that there's a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities that open up over time that you use your finance and accounting expertise in uh that can even be in a startup situation where you would make even more than

you might have made where your partner in a medium-sized firm so there's a lot of different ways your career could bend and twist and turn over the years um but um you know number one i think

the the key thing here of what you said is you don't really like the destination so why go 14 years to get there

yeah that answers my question

that's definitely something that i've been you know on the ken coleman episodes in his show you know that's one of the things that i often think about as well so it's the old thing of if you climb the ladder of success and it's leaning on the wrong building oh crap yep yeah you know

and so you know we want to make sure the stinking ladder is leaning in the right place now you know so what i've discovered is is that the economy and the career path these days is a lot more dynamic and a lot more fluid than just

one possible path for a given

field of endeavor i would have never thought i would have been on the path i ended up on with a degree in finance and real estate it was definitely not my intent to end up going broke and then coaching people on how not to do that but uh it worked out okay for me you know so it's a twist and a turn and you you know you pivot

and you uh play the hand that's dealt you and so on so uh it's in other words if you took the other position and you were there five years making twice and you were piling up cash during that time that gives you the option to do other things if you wanted to take a a hard right or hard left turn utilizing some of those skills and again go into an entrepreneurial startup of some kind or start your own public accounting firm build your own book of business where

you is the podna baby yes and uh that kind of a thing and you've got all kinds of options like that and you know uh with an extra four or five hundred thousand dollars uh in the next 10 years that would be

you know give it just give you a lot of options so i just don't think it's going to end up being a straight line to success and you don't like where the ladder is leaning anyway so i'm standing there i'm i'm i'm gonna go ahead and start looking that other direction yeah um so maybe you need to live your dream not your professor's dream so just my idea what do

i know i like that dave open phones this hour simon is with us simon's in tallahassee florida hi simon how are you hi dave hi anthony it's absolutely delightful to speak to both of you you too sir how can we help well i have a real estate question for you um i'm a young entrepreneur in tallahassee i have student rental business here and i'm having real trouble finding reliable affordable uh contractors plumbers etc

that actually show up to work and do the job properly so i was wondering how you went about finding proper contractors that's a good question because i had the same question for dave simon

no surprise you know when my son

15 years ago was in high school we were doing a little bit of renovation on our home and uh the guy wasn't showing up and the guy wasn't showing up and we're coming home one day and daniel says uh dad i'm he's 15 years old i'm going in the construction business i said why and he goes it's a really easy business all you have to do is do what you say you were going to do and show up and you have no competition

and it is it is i mean you can make if you're a contractor you can make a mint in that world by reasonably pricing

and showing up on time and uh doing what

you said you're gonna do keeping your word and uh to the point that uh too many times people don't yeah in that in that field so uh nick what we

have done over the years is number one uh we have settled in like for our rental properties and the properties that we manage and that we own we have settled on the fact that in order to lower our aggravation level we have increased what we spend to get a better person so you're you're really not going to get a super cheap contractor and get good work on time without problems it's just i

i have not had that as a experience because most of the guys that are in that world they charge a little more because they know that they're the only ones that are going to do the right job on time the way they say it so and i'll just pay a little more so i don't have the heartache of having to restart the project four times with four different people that screw

it up every time so i pay a little bit more uh not a lot more i'll pay double i don't mean that but i'm i i just changed my mindset on not necessarily always going with the lowest bid and the second thing we do is is that we are 100 of the time always looking

for more contractors

if we have a paint a guy that does painting for us and we've got a really good one right now he's an incredible guy um but we've always we're always looking for another one because i don't know what day he's not gonna you know at what point he's gonna blow up yeah and so if i've got options

as backup i need i need some bench depth

and so just because i've got someone that does good roofing doesn't mean i'm going to only work with one roofer i'm going to always have another one on the bench ready to go and just because i've got someone that's good at building a deck you know whatever whatever the thing is that you're wanting done i want another one in queue yeah and uh pay a little more

and get some bench depth and that's about the only way to avoid the majority of the heartache good question thank you for joining us anthony good job today dave america thank you that puts us hour the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with

the prince of peace christ jesus

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you

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## 199. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 9, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:31:26 |

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this is the ramsay show [Applause] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice ken

coleman ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money if you're familiar with ken's show it's broadcast now on about 75 talk radio stations across america plus big time podcast numbers and youtube followers and he talks about your career and finding joy in your work finding work that uh

has meaning so if you've got career questions job questions maybe you're bouncing back after a little covet 19 action i noticed we all had a little of that last year well ken's here to help phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five ryan is with us in cleveland ohio hey ryan how are you

hey sir how are you i'm great good how can we help got a quick question for you so i'm 24 years old out of cleveland ohio and looking to purchase my first home and a

little worried because of how the market is right now i kind of want to just ask your opinion you know with interest rates being so low it seems like if you're not the first offer and at least forty thousand dollars uh over asking you don't have a shot so kind of wanted to ask your opinion on that well i i don't play those games i've bought

real estate my entire adult life i own a bunch of real estate i bought a piece of real estate last week but i did not uh i did not uh offer

more than asking price in order to get it uh i don't get it caught up in that um my guess is you offered quite a bit lower yes no on this particular course

yeah i wish you

we were 35 000 over on our last um

house we looked at and we lost it yeah well you didn't you weren't supposed to get it it was a dumb purchase that's exactly right and i'm thankful i didn't get it yeah don't don't purchase something thirty five thousand dollars over asking i mean you're not desperate man you're 24.

okay you're single i am single but a

girlfriend of six years awesome okay and you are uh not

buying a house with her you're buying a house by yourself it is yep it's gonna be under my name and uh she'll also be helping to pay the mortgage nope

nope nope don't sleep with your partner and it'll just be on me don't sleep with your partners bad idea you'll get yourself in a mess if you want to if you want to if you want to do that it's time to get married uh but no you're gonna get yourself into a huge mess if you've set your life up based on something uh based on a roommate situation uh

so no if you're gonna buy you're gonna buy based on your numbers or you're gonna get married if we're gonna base it on both numbers because then you've got all kinds of protection she has all kinds of protection she's not paying someone else's mortgage on a home she doesn't own i'm her dad right now i'm not going to allow her to do that that's a bad move for her okay

it will all be under me then yep all right so you got your down payment and you have an emergency fund right yes sir i've got i've got money in the bank and my other question too would would it be smart to uh take advantage of the fha or should i just do it conventionally conventional is the cheapest loan by far a lot lot less expenses and

you need a good solid down payment 15-year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth of your household take-home pay if you change your household by getting married then you can recalculate that if you don't then you're going to run it on yours now the deal is this there's a couple of

things that cause people to get uh goodbyes

on anything real estate included number

one is patience

if you get emotionally married to

something you're gonna pay too much and it's dude it's a stinking house there's houses on every corner in cleveland i've been there there's a lot of houses in cleveland so you don't need just i gotta have this house you know when you when you when you get house fever like that you need to go home take a cold shower slow your butt down

slow slow

that's who gets the best buy it's the second person that gets the next buy next best buy is the person has the most knowledge so you learn the market you keep looking at this neighborhood you're looking at that neighborhood you know the differences in them you know the nuances you know the prices over there there's nothing in this neighborhood is sold for more than 350 dollars a square foot 250 a square foot 1250 a square foot whatever

it is you know what it's going for and so something comes on the market that is uh you know you can look at the numbers very quickly because you've gathered information he with the most

information he with the most options

because you don't get emotionally married to something and he with the most patience is the one who gets the best

buys and a wise purchase slow your

butt down it needs to

in this market is hot white hot as it is it may take you a year to buy a house just enjoy the process

you're not dying paying a little rent you're not gonna but don't go in there and overpay and it's just man i tell you what you you smell like somebody's getting ready to overpay because you got you're just so freaking excited he's in his early 20s he's in great financial situation the first house is the first house i get why it's so exciting it is exciting stacy and

i bought a house uh two and a half years in the marriage we ran in for two and a half years and we look back on that house now and we go oh wasn't that cute it's the first house it was nice it was a good move for us we were patient but it's the first house and the other thing here and i'm not trying to get in his relationship business

but it's very interesting to me that he that i don't know if he's talked to this girl about this or not but he was under the impression that she was going to pay some of the mortgage and they've been dating for six years and i think i don't want people to miss the relationship piece as to why you were so quick to go hey whoa whoa we're not gonna do that

and that you know six years we need to decide at six years whether or not we're moving forward or not six years is plenty of time to decide i'm a painter get off the ladder yeah so why are we talking about going into a co-mortgage situation with someone you've been dating six years i just think that part of life has got to be figured out first the

first house will always be there always slow down

just slow down

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five now here's what's happened the real estate market is quite hot and so that's one of the things that you need to get one like one of our endorsed local providers and you know you may have a high quality real estate agent that says you're going to pay more than asking price to buy in this neighborhood in which case

you just go well i'm probably not gonna be buying that neighborhood take it off the list or i'm not gonna be buying that neighborhood now i'll just wait this thing calms down a little bit it's okay now is there a housing bubble is there going to be a drop in values no i do not think so

like i said i bought a piece of real estate last week and by the way i did pay retail i didn't i didn't get a deal i offered it anyway get a deal right his kneecap is

sore i bit him on the knee but i didn't but

it's okay you know but um

my wife was involved and when my wife was involved i never get a deal because it's s-w-i sharon she sees the offer she goes sheridan wants it [Applause] you're gonna make them mad i'm like honey it's a spiritual gift oh my this is the dave ramsey show [Music]

we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five roland is in oregon hi

roland how are you i'm good dave how are you better than i deserve how can can i help

well my wife and i have been doing the baby steps our entire marriage about 16 months we've always been on the same page and recently we did a zoom call with the

financial advisor that she had before we met he helped her set up a roth ira and

she wanted to introduce me and he advised us to be fully funding her 401 and also

be saving for a home while we're paying

off student debt and so now she wants to throw your plan out the window and i want to keep going like a gazelle to pay that debt and i don't know how to get her back back on the plan i don't either yeah

well she thinks now that that

your your steps are kind of a broad stroke for people who are making poor decisions and

they're designed for people like her let me take a stab at this how much how much debt do you have right now 134 134 000 made up of what

student debt all student loans yeah any

of that any of that hers no sir it's all yours

how much do you make how much do you make i'm making none right now i'm a full-time seminary student she makes 340. she makes 340 000 a year yes sir

and and you're she's a doctor yeah

she is a a surgeon yes yeah

okay that's going to hurt my plan because here's the stab i was going to take and that is that she's got to see that while this guy has made this advice to her that you still got this debt and you're and you're it's going to take so much longer to pay it off doing it his way in her way and you're going to actually make progress faster part of

the problem dave i think is we've got a uh she's the full-time income she's the only income and she's making big money and she doesn't feel it doesn't hurt her enough the debt doesn't hurt and rowan i don't know how to help you let me tell you what you're experiencing yeah 30 years of me coaching people in finance the worst people the worst

category of people handling money are medical doctors as a category they suck at handling money worse than pro athletes worse than

anybody and the reason is is that they're very very smart intellectually and they make the mistake

of thinking that that translates to finance they don't know beans about finance but they have an intellectual arrogance

and they go make stupid but decisions and they firmly believe with all of their intellectual arrogance that they're making the right decisions and it's the worst category now not all medical doctors are that way but it's stereotypical i mean i'm in nashville with country music artists some of them do some stupid butt stuff some of them are brilliant with money i mean i meet everybody from actors to pro athletes to whatever over 30 years the worst

category are medical doctors they are perpetually in debt and they're perpetually underperforming in their wealth building because of their intellectual arrogance

and that's what you're running into and i don't know how to fix that because now she and her little financial advisor who between the two of them don't know beans uh about money have made a decision so i really i i don't know how to help you sir how long before you get out of seminary and start working it doesn't matter i mean well it's 340 000

they could pay it all off in one year but i mean unless he convinces instead the financial advisor kept her is keeping student loans around like they're a freaking pet i got she got a hundred and forty thousand dollars of student loan debt she makes 340 000 if you can't pay that off in a year you're a wimp yeah

it's ridiculous that this advisor takes this poor a stance and leaves this couple in debt this far you should be sued for malpractice as a financial advisor for doing that that's just asinine just

asinine but they're gonna do it

so i honestly don't know how to help you that's what you're coming up against though and um truthfully some humility on her

part is in order and saying you know what i really don't know anything about this area i just listened to this one guy and you know he disagrees with the other guy and so maybe now we can have a discussion but no no no don't doubt dave ramsey's a knuckle dragger and his his ideas are primitive and they're broad strokes how about the broad stroke your idiot financial planner gave you there's a broad stroke for you so i mean

just just god aggravating his crud so i

i honestly don't know how to help you i really don't know how to convince someone in that situation what to do i think you're going to experience pain before you do and i think you're going to experience that she makes a lot of money and you're not going to get the best use of it as long as you're following this idiot that she had on the phone well

the one thing we can do is he can if she's not going to get on board then once he starts working he's going to take all of his salary and yeah but now we're telling people split their money apart and that's going to split couples apart that's not healthy for their relationship well no i'm not one hold on i got to because i don't want to confuse

the audience i'm not suggesting that they split their money i'm saying well they have a split plan her plan and his plan well but he's not going to not pay the debt off yeah well he's got to pay it off he is if he goes along with her yeah so i mean you're not going to pay it off for 30 years if he goes along with her yeah that's true

i think he's got to sit down and show her if we pay this off look how much more we can invest how much quicker that's the only shot he's got it's just a little she married a seminary student so maybe we ought to read the bible there is borrower is slave to the lender that's true about that let's try that one yeah i just don't the only thing is dave

i just don't think you were clear enough with him and i don't think he showed enough emotion i feel like you mailed that i feel like you mail that call in no i get it it's frustrating it's a tough situation because this is a marriage well it is and you know he's getting bullied

well okay so i'm gonna bring this up and i don't and if you send a hate mail i'm not going to read it so don't send it uh well go ahead and send it we use it for kindling yeah that's true we do we use it for the fire pit out back yeah um how much this has nothing to do with her being a woman him being a man

but how much of this is the fact that it's his debt student loan debt and she's the sole bread winner i think that's a big factor in this isn't it it can be in

the fact that she doesn't think he's got a vote yeah that's what i'm getting at she's going this is something should have been handled before you get married i agree that you know this is a messy psychological deal given her 100 of their marriage she's gonna out earn him yes unless he has some kind of ridiculous career in ministry that that most people don't have right i mean a pastor's income is not going to keep up with the medical doctor's income and 340 000 a year in 99

of the cases so this is going to be an issue for 50 years oh big time if that's if that's really marital counseling yeah just like any other problem with it be parenting hey she wants to discipline the kids this way i think it's this way this is a big issue this is marital counseling is what this is this is the shot to get somebody objective in

there in the middle let both of them hear each other out and they've got they've got to fight on this as a married issue this is just like any other major issue in your marriage in fact maybe bigger let me explain to you what i'm talking about because some medical doctors are all mad at me now because i didn't call all of you i said the category okay it's a stereotype right which means that some people aren't right

but here's the thing the people that have

the most trouble with money are oftentimes

the most that have the best and the

highest intellect because they overthink it they think it's a math problem and personal finance is only 80 behavior

20 head knowledge it is a math problem but it is not the problem the problem is your relationships the problem is understanding the flow

of your income and you know where it's

going to go understand the spiritual principles that are underlying all of this and uh you know sometimes i run into an accountant or an engineer or i don't know

name somebody an attorney someone else who you know and there can be people in other category career fields that have high intellect but i'm people people are highly intelligent and highly analytical and both also are the ones that struggle the most to win with money well remember this most of

the world used to think the world was flat dave and these people are running in a world where it says you just go you get the debt and you're eventually going to out earn it it's not a problem so if everybody says it then you just believe it you should just do everything at the same time you need to get out of debt that's right the world is flat

now we've confused everyone now i'm just lost yeah i am truly a knuckle dragger this is the

ramsay show

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[Music] ken coleman ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today open phones at

triple eight eight two five five two two five if you

feel like you will always be stuck paying off your debt well it doesn't have to be that way it won't take nearly as long as you think it will with ramsey plus we're going to kick you off with a 90-day guided plan

to help you every single day exactly what to do small consistent wins that add up

to big results and better habits

you do not win with money you don't win at anything big all at once it's not sudden it's

incremental you win death by a thousand cuts and we'll show you how with financial peace university with every dollar premium with the baby steps tracker all the tools are in ramsey plus this year can be your year if you want

to do a free trial text the word trial

to 33789 if you want to take ramsey plus

as a free trial you need to get in and look at it text trial two three three seven

eight nine and you guys have got your

six uh easy to use resume templates to help you get noticed yeah so we we had such success with our free resume guide which is also at kencoleman.com and it came with a free template we had so much response because we really flip it on its head and you can learn more about that as you read the free pdf so we decided we got our world-class designers and we've got a bunch of them here in the building and they created six new templates that really kind of take in all different uh styles uh also

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six amazing templates to make your resume stand out and it's been a fun resource so it's a way to to pull yourself out of the pile uh to not just submit the free ones are there free and 9.99

789 as well resume 233-789

evan is with us in orlando hi evan how are you hey dave hey ken thanks for taking my call guys sure how can we help i yes my question is i'm wondering if you guys have ever heard of a million dollar baby plan yeah it's a bad whole life policy for kids

okay i was just trying to figure out because i heard it from my brother and my alarm bells were going off when you were telling me whole life and investing yeah they should go off it's just it's crap it's just got a it's got a snazzy name you know how you're going to get a million dollars in there you put 2 million in

it's it's the old joke how do you make a small fortune in a winery you start with a large fortune yeah they're playing on your emotions

it is a great name but the chances of you ending up with a million dollars in your baby's whole life policy is almost zero i mean

you would have to put so stinking much money in there the rates of return are pitiful they keep all the money that you put in for the first three years it is just a really bad

savings account with a life insurance company sucks beyond belief great name

i mean i pulled up one website it's got a baby standing there with a fistful of dollars yeah which he's getting ready to give to the insurance company that's so true so

yeah i'm sorry your brother got got had man tell him to run well it turns out ramsay solutions has had a million dollar baby plan since inception it's called the baby steps yeah well because if you actually work them out well you can actually invest money into your kid's name 529 plan right you become a millionaire and leave it to your kids wow there you go that's how you do it yeah yeah no there's no free laws no no no no

whole life i love it they always go it's tax-free growth yeah not really that's true that's semantics the only way you get the money out that you put in and not pay taxes on is you borrow it and you pay interest on your money so let me tell you something if you put money listen if you put money in a bank and you've got two hundred thousand dollars in a bank

and cds and you go borrow a hundred thousand dollars out of that same bank while you're two and you pledge your 200 000 rcd against it there's no taxes on that borrowed money there's no taxes on borrowed money duh yeah borrowing money is not a taxable event right because you're but you're borrowing your own stinking money and paying them interest to get it out so it's time it's tax-free growth

it literally means it's not it's an industry that's been screwing people since this is the power of marketing language we to wake up yeah but that's a great integrate title billion dollar baby are you kidding me what good parent doesn't want to have i want baby to be a million dollar baby i mean you're not a parent what kind of parent wouldn't do that yeah rodney's with us in little rock hey rodney how are

you doing well guys how about y'all staying warm just barely brother how can we help

my uh so i'm in sales business development good company good industry and my question is

you know thinking back to college the professors that really stood out to me or the ones that maybe just taught a night class or or one class and came from the business world and it's something that i always thought about maybe could you know do later and i was wondering what would be the way to to maybe check check into that to see if that was something

i would be qualified for or even be considered for a you know a night class or one class something like that at a community college or even a four-year school yeah well you just you just put all the elements of your plan so here's what you've got to do so let's start talking to the community college and go hey i've got a college degree i assume you do is that correct that's correct

so you got the college degree and so the question is on the community college level do i need a graduate level degree to be able to be a part-time professor no and the answer is no and i think it's probably no at your state schools as well so if you look at little rock you have a phd in life my brother yeah i think it's making connections

so what i'd start doing is is i'd go out of class if it were me i want to make connections best way to make connections get in the places where the right people are hanging out that is the essence of the book the proximity principle that i wrote and i'm going to give it to you as my gift but here's what i would do go audit some classes they're going to allow

you to do that after the class is over all the students file out here comes a sharp business guy like you who's on purpose and human humble and you go to the professor and go hey i eventually want to get in here teaching some business classes or teaching the class on this and this and this and you do it and you get clear on what courses they offer

and you ask that professor to connect you to who's in charge of that they've got all the information they got the connections and if they put in a good word for you great and you go start meeting people and sit down when they see a guy like you who doesn't want a full-time job who just wants to do it for the love of it uh and you've always wanted to do

it and they hear that from you that enthusiasm that passion and that humility say hey i'm on call i don't need money i'll take your part-time pay but i'm i'm here for passion i want to sign up what do you want me to do any qualifications beyond my college degree you want me to get yeah i'll go do it and here's what's going to happen eventually the phone's going to ring well

i don't think it takes that long i don't either i'm

stroll into the president's office of course you are well to the president's community calling well yeah but you're still not strolling in that lady in charge of that office is powerful i'm gonna stroll in and talk to her and tell her what i'm doing and say listen i've got a phd in life and i've got an undergrad and i think i can teach a business class at night

i kind of want to do it for fun um what's the what's the chances of me talking to you guys about doing that if they throw you out then go do ken's plan yeah they won't throw you out but right but these are yeah both of those will work try both yeah because i mean i don't think the barrier of entry is that big because i got to tell

you one of my favorite classes that i ever took was exactly what you're talking about yeah i mean i was in i got a degree in real estate and finance and a guy that was doing real estate syndication doing what i wanted to do taught a class called real estate syndication at night i mean he was an actual practitioner you know and oh my god i was just dying

it was like it was like elvis if you were in the music business man i thought if i could just be in his class and i'd do anything to take that class and i got in there and took it and and i learned a lot about syndication from that class because a guy was actually a practitioner on his day job he was doing real estate syndication that's my whole beef with a lot of colleges

we got professors teaching you theory they've never done it and i tell young people all the time i'm okay with college but you better go spend some time with people that are actually doing what you want to do successfully because they can teach you and it's a master class over lunch for crying out loud this guy he'll have no problem getting in there yeah i want to see him stroll into

the president's office so i'm looking forward to stroll just stroll don't walk strong that's

confidence i'm telling you he's gonna get hired immediately there's no question go do that for sure this is the dave ramsey show

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and coleman ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today open phones here on the ramsay show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

crystal is with us in newport news virginia hi crystal how are you

hi thank you thank you for having me sure what's up um yes i was calling um

my husband passed away last year and um

it's been it's been a crazy year for sure um i'm a single mom i have 30 children

a 15 10 and six-year-old

at the moment my goal was to go back to work but with this covet thing that's going on i am currently a

homeschooling teacher um and it's just

not not possible at this time i'm currently

bringing in about 30 grand a month that i'm supporting the four of

us on and i i just

when he passed we sold our house and i moved into an apartment so i could get my bearings and i'm just kind of ready to get into a more stable living situation um an opportunity to

fall into my lap i'm doing dealing with a special type of loans that can offer me a lower house payment

as well as little to no down payment

and i can have an actual modular home built for myself and my children um

how old are you i'm actually about to be

36. okay what happened

um cancer oh no i'm sorry yeah

he um he was i was in school and

he got a stage four cancer diagnosis and

wow i put school on hold to take care of

him my children and that was also on my list of

possibilities after he passed away i was like well maybe i can go back to school um but again with this covet thing it's really put me in a bad spot yeah uh no the covet

thing's not put you in a bad spot you lost your husband world got turned upside down that puts you in a bad spot um i'm so sorry i'm so sorry

so um here here's um it sounds like

you've made some really wise moves so far um

and uh and you have good instincts your

instinct is to try to get things stable for your kids

in a world where your entire family's world was turned upside down and so you're clawing and scratching for stability and for for a solid ground and um

so i i think you sit right there in that

apartment let's not do this house deal this is a bad deal you're looking at okay and it's a deal it's a deal that satisfies you emotionally but it is not um in a time when you're hurting but it is not a good long-term play

several things you said there were bad words in the in the world of your future and it was modular it was um nothing down it was a reduced

payment it was this is a special plan

um you know all of these things mean that you basically can't afford to do this deal right now and you're being put you know you're being sucked into something here that's not going to be a blessing to you i i want you to take the final stages

in the next 12 months out of your grief

into your future and as you do

those then make a decision on a house

but i think you haven't made the turn completely yet because you don't have a 10-year plan to live like you're living

yeah your 10-year plan includes some kind of a career move for you and ken she needs to start taking some steps that yeah i just wanted to ask what were you going to school for what was the vision you had a vision attached to that yeah nursing actually um

how much do you lack i'm about three

classes shy of applying to nursing school to nursing school yeah and then you got to what a two-year plan yes i mean it's been a little bit nerve-wracking because um you know obviously with the nursing

school itself it's very um

you have to show up every single day and it makes it hard being again a single parent with three children um i just

so i i've i was assuming that i would go back you have family in the area um very little a lot of my dependencies

relies on my 81 year old grandmother um

where is your family um

just various situations my mother how

did you all end up in newport news well i i was born in newport news oh okay um yeah so we've been around a lot it's just that like i said stability is not all there my mother had a stroke when she was 32 and she's disabled and you know my father i just

got him into rehab a couple years ago and he's been yeah i'm sober now for two years almost every two years in may um honey you've had enough crisis to last anybody yeah crystal crystal i want to encourage you crystal i want you to hear what i'm about to say so right now you are in a storm

and that storm's not going to last forever um kids get back into school that's going to alleviate a lot of things i want you to focus on trying to build some community whether you try to go to church or you begin to really seek relationships because there are people out there who want to help and will help you and you've got to be okay saying i can't do

this on my own but you've you're doing a tremendous job right now on your own but you're not going to have to always be on your own you need to embrace that now here's what happens once the kids situation when you're not home school teacher once that begins to alleviate we want to get you in a situation where you can finish those classes and if you've got to press pause for a little bit

before nursing school to get a really good paying job and get out there and save and save and save and cash flow your way through nursing school even if that takes you three to five years did you get uh life insurance you can do it yes um

i i i had about um i have about 55

000 in a savings account that i haven't really messed with too much good keep that i had a 7 800 credit card

from him that i i've been paying off i've got it down to about 58 now and i've got 30 20 about 29 000 in student loans so

far it's just um all right we're gonna we're gonna send you a bunch of materials we're gonna walk with you we're gonna send you a bunch of materials we're gonna send you ken's book on careers okay i'm sending you anthony o'neil's book called debt free degree a new way of thinking about going to school and not going into debt and then we're going to put you into ramsey plus which is our master class on financial peace university it's got all

the stuff in it we're going to pay for every bit of it okay we're going to come around you put our arms around you all right i certainly appreciate it i like i said i just didn't know what direction really to go with it you know my husband i want you to wait on buying a house until after nursing school yep with um with the actual apartment

situation the one that i'm currently in i wouldn't say is necessarily the greatest neighborhood and there's been a couple incidents uh there's a gentleman that was if you need to move and rent a little house somewhere that's fine but i would not buy a house right now right okay crystal you listen your brain's on fire yeah you got so much going on you've had so much coming at

you that it's very difficult to make large financial decisions when you have this much of a cloud over uh you know three different directions yeah every different direction every morning you wake up with a new idea yeah you know crystal i want you to hear this crystal listen dave gave you great financial advice you got to get your financial house in order first here's what i want

you to hear nursing school is still going to be there yep the very reason why you wanted to be a nurse and caring for people it's still going to be there it's not that far away don't you let this storm of life discourage you and confuse you from what you want to do and that nursing job is not going to just be something you love to do

but it's going to be something that takes care of those three kiddos get your financial house in order do what we tell you take all the gifts stay focused don't quit you're gonna come out of this storm and when you come out of it we get our financial house in order and then we move towards nursing you're so close don't you dare quit yeah i ken's exactly right let me tell

you what i heard okay i'm talking to a 36 year old right

that's what she said yes 36 okay

when you're 56

you have had a long nursing career working as many hours as you wanted to work and you're probably going to have close to a million dollar net worth that's exactly the end of this story beautiful vision you're going to be there and i'm going to show you exactly how to do it and ken's going to show you exactly how to do it so he's right you but but we don't need to

take any missteps along the way to keep us from getting there you can do it you hold on kelly's going to get you signed up for everything as our gift garland i'm so sorry

this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career your hero in your

story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i am dave

ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book the proximity principal is my co-host today which means we can talk to you about not only money but careers because that's what the ken coleman show does every day for a couple hours a day so we'll talk to you about your future and your income side of the equation i can talk to you about both sides of

the equation the income and the outgo side we'll just generally jump all up in your business because it's what we do here the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five kevin starts off this hour in greenville south carolina hi kevin how are you hey dave it's it's an absolute pleasure to talk to you i've been listening to you since i was 19 years old 33 now

and i just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you do thank you sir how can we help well i'll be brief um it's uh two quick questions if i can the first one um is i'm in babies four five and six i make 120 000 a year i'm married

and i'm 33 i'm getting near 100 000

in my uh roth iras and 401ks and i started looking into the self-directed iras to invest in real estate because i heard that i had heard from previous episodes that you recommend doing that um my question is that i'm trying to find a good company and i notice that there's no fidelities or vanguards uh in in this in this space is there any

companies that you would recommend that do this type of uh uh

no i don't have one that we recommend and i generally don't recommend it unless someone uh is really really hot on real estate and knows their stuff in real estate it's not a beginners if you're a beginning real estate investor i wouldn't put my 401k money into that uh now i do know people that have done very very well with it and of course the rules are that all the money made on the real estate whether it's from a flip or from the rental income has to stay

in the ira the ira has to fund

everything and all the money stays in there so it's not like you own a real rental real estate and you get a rental check and you get to put in your bank account you don't it has to stay inside of there

and so you're managing this property

for your retirement years not for today's income and that's what you've really got to get your head around and that's what's it's very constricting in a lot of ways but what it does do is it does free up a bunch of capital to pay cash for some real estate and those kinds of things typically you can find a local bank that has a self-directed program and you can look into that and there's probably a few places online and i would just shop them out but i don't have a particular uh

company that we say do that with and

i don't know if any of the smart mr pros would have that or not uh because it's not what we send people to them for so i don't know i mean they're helping you just do a traditional 401k or roth iras or those kinds of things your 529s for your kids college all that kind of stuff and so i don't know you know you could ask a smart investor pro in your area

they may actually have the service through their broker dealer that they can do that with but most of the time uh we do not recommend my personal

401k is not a self-directed plan my

personal ira is not it's just in mutual

funds just like we teach everybody else to do now i buy a lot of real estate but it's outside of that and the the constricted portion of that is there ken i knew a guy when i was doing real estate deals back in my 20s a thousand years ago that um retired

from uh kodak that's how long ago it was

oh wow yes kodak was a company a big

deal that was a huge company back in those days i mean this is 40 years ago 35 years ago and he had like in those days a lot of money half a million dollars and he took that and started buying real estate and flipping with it and ended up with about two or three million dollars with real estate in his it was his old 401 k and

he rolled it over into a self-directed when he retired and did did real estate deals in it but again you have to have an income to eat with other than that because you can't touch that money it's trapped in there until you're 59 and a half now in his case he was over 59 and a half so he could pull money out without penalty but it's like pulling money out of your retirement account

and if i heard you right he knew what he was doing this was he was he was a seasoned real estate investor yeah not a good idea for a rookie just to play with this game yeah i wouldn't use my my retirement plan right if i'm for my first five deals you know i wouldn't i think it's very dangerous

because you know real estate is starting your own business is the american dream buying and selling real estate seems to be the american dream everybody wants to do it and i've done both in my life a lot um

and so i don't recommend against those things what i do want everyone considering either one of those things there's a lot of people uh in their 20s right now it's like it's just this there's a a surge of entrepreneurism

right now for people in their 20s which is wonderful for america it's wonderful for them uh but the the thing is it it

starting running your own business is probably 10 times harder than you think it's going to be there's a i mean it's just going to take a while and you don't know what you're getting into and you're going to stumble around and you're going to bump into stuff in the dark and bloody your nose and the same thing's true with real estate you know everybody says well you just buy a house

and use flip house and he's like they've been watching too dead gun much cable tv and some you know guy you know you see an edited version of reality uh in a reality show and some guy walks

in and buys a house and they change the kitchen out or some kind of crap it's on tv and it absolutely does not work that way out here in the real world well they'll they'll go in and say oh this wall has to come out it's got all kinds of rod in or whatever and they go well it's going to add to the budget and then we move to

the next segment yeah it doesn't happen in the real world it's more expensive than you think flipping houses but here's what's going on there's a lot of people out there praying on these young kids 20s and 30s going this is the get rich quick debts good use debt to your advantage and they're not telling the other side of the story yeah and that and this isn't the horror story it's not like we're talking about

the one percent chance no you're guaranteed to run into bigger problems than you think flipping houses it's always more expensive it always takes more time contractors don't show up exactly when you when you want them to so in the 90s dangerous in 1985

i bought a package of 12 houses a

package of 12 houses okay i was 24 years old

wow for 240 000

one of them i paid 13 000 for in that package basically it was a pack from one guy who was going broke these were these were run down houses beat up houses in a bad neighborhood that was in air quotes historic and coming back

now 40 40 years later it is now a big

deal historic area right right but 40 freaking years later right okay or 35

years later one of the houses had they built the houses in a building boom some of them with green lumber and the reason the floors were warped was not because they were old it's because there's that lumber drive that pretzeled yes and it got hard as concrete so jacking

those floors up and getting them even took weeks and months

i had that house jacked up with floor jacks and posts under it letting it settle [Music] this is how bad the neighborhood it was they stole the jacks out from under the house one night they don't tell you this stuff that's not only cable tv it's not that doesn't come up on cable tv ever really happened oh how the house didn't fall on the moron's head is beyond me it's unbelievable this is the day

this is the ramsay show

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do

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host open phones at 825-5225 rob's with us in virginia beach

hi rob how are you hey mr dave hey ken how you guys doing great man how can we help um so unfortunately i got a divorce recently about a year and a half ago and i'm on baby step two currently and i co-signed for the car that she

currently drives and as per the divorce decree she's responsible for the payments and she's been making them as except for a couple which have negatively impacted my credit but i was just wondering do i need to add like our joint car loan in baby step 2

as part of my debt or do i go by the divorce decree and let her continue making payments and just kind of monitor it well every time she doesn't make a payment on time it's showing up gonna show up on your credit report yes sir she's only done that once fortunately but it hit it hit pretty hard it dropped at about 75 points so um that was about a year ago

and i was just wondering um in baby step two if i need to add her car on the list or not no you don't but you need to get that car paid off and get it off your name so how are you going to do that how are you going to do that i tried i tried to do a transfer of equity but her credit score isn't good enough

so it defaulted back into my name and she also tried to refinance in just her name but unfortunately she's

the type of personality that if i start helping her make payments or make put even a dollar towards it she'll um stop paying it completely so that's just what i'm trying to avoid because so what is the what is the balance on the car she owes

about 23 000 still good lord no you do

so what should have happened in the divorce decree was the sale of the car

yes sir it should have been a forced sale and so um

what do you make a year currently i make

80 000 i'm a disabled veteran so i'm at 100 right now with the i'm

trying to eventually get a home next year so i'm trying to be debt free this year because um it's still counting as long as that car loan as long as that car loan exists you're not debt-free yes sir because there's your name on it yes sir oh i'm sorry well thank you for your service um thank you for your support i uh what does she make um she was a server last night i spoke to her we're not on speaking terms was kind of a nasty divorce unfortunately so last i know she makes around 23

i believe okay so she has a car she can't afford yes sir and i think she's too stubborn

to go ahead and admit that and sell it so that well um

what i would do what i would do is if she misses another payment i would uh hire an attorney and drag her back in before the judge and ask the judge motion the court for the car to be sold yes sir as soon as she misses one payment okay because like i said i'm trying to i'm tired of renting and well the bottom line is that's what's going to help her is to get rid of

the car and it's also going to help you because she she cannot if she's making twenty five thousand dollars a year she doesn't need a twenty two thousand dollar car payment that just doesn't once they paid off yeah sorry go yeah and so and and i don't want you to pay the car off i want you to force her to sell it now if you could convince her that

it was in her best interest to sell it because it is um or if you have anyone that you know that can speak into her life that could convince her um to

sell the car it would be in her best interest it also by the way would be in yours but i mean actually yeah

if she gets a hit at all that is in my best interest she's less likely to do it basically well i mean it's obvious it's in your best interest you owe the money on the you're on the car loan she knows that but that's not the motivation here the motivation is she if she's got to get rid of this car payment because and she can't and so it's killing her

it's eating her alive and so she's going to miss another payment if you can't get word to her or get her to somehow listen to sell the car just go ahead and

have some money set aside for an attorney and the first time she misses a payment immediately petition follow file a motion with the court to have the car sold because she's not the court decree the divorce decree demands that she pays the payments and she's not paying them and she's damaging you and when you get before the judge you can say oh by the way you're on

it she makes twenty thousand dollars a year she's got twenty thousand dollar car payment it's not good for her your honor and he would look at her or she will look at her and say oh yeah you need to sell this car kid that's a bad deal and they'll they'll help her adjust her attitude that's one thing judges are pretty good at they take great great pride in that well

i mean a lot of them honestly at that level a lot of the judges are not it's not like tv they really do care and they actually will look at you and go you know that they use wisdom oh it's like the parent many people have never had exactly exactly i mean uh you know we do a lot of work with the uh uh the foster care system in tennessee

and so we've got to know a lot of the juvenile court judges and stuff and i got to tell you they're they're the best social workers on the planet i mean they really uh they care and they've got the power to do something about it too so uh it's um just it's just wisdom

and this this poor girl is not being wise it's not good for her stephanie is in orlando florida hi stephanie how are you hey thanks for taking my call um i want to know how much i should switch my car i have a 03 um ford expedition i love it but it's an

o3 um i have about

15 in my emergency fund um

and then we have about 25 in another for savings money to make about 250 a year um

but i just don't want to spend more than i spent on some investment houses for a car you're going to you make 250 000 a year you're driving a piece of crap yeah i know but it's a to b

i get it it doesn't take much to make you happy and you're a content person i get that but you're you know i don't you know i'm not

big on i i'm the guy tells everybody sell their car right i'm not the guy tells people buy cars but you need to buy a car darling well what is reasonable for a car

like because i'm looking at and well you have 20 000 set aside for buying a car okay

and that's that's only ten percent of your income yeah and so it's not it's not unreasonable to spend twenty thousand dollars on a car and you can get a great used car for that car okay you had a ton of car wonderful

car for that um okay so take cash and you should

never have all of your cars and things with motors and wheels added together that you own should never equal more than half your annual income because all of those things go down in value but we're not even approaching that oh no i won't sell that much stephanie

listen let me set you free you got 20 000 i think that's your budget that's the top and knowing you you're going to go shop and you'll probably find something for 17 that you love exactly so or you might find something for 20 and you offer them 17 or 15 and they talk i forgot the dave deal yeah if your budget's 20 always offer 15.

first the first car it's like okay now i can afford something and i the the car was 7 500 for some infinity

something or other and i took five thousand dollars in cash in a 100 yes 800 bill and i put it on the back of the uh on the on the trunk i did my best to fan it out but i was shaking yeah because i'd never done it before i was trying to summon dave and there it is there's a deal right there you're gonna sell my car

he said i can't do it for five i said well that's what i'm offering he goes would you take he says would you do it for 55 and i said yes before you quick you should have too quick quick shake shake i don't know man

so that really does work especially if you're buying private party yeah absolutely unbelievable it absolutely does cash still talks baby this is

the ramsay show

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our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee

that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they will remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run all the time you save even more always use the promo code ramsey

which means you heard it on the ramsay show ramsey blinds.com pretty impressive it'll save you some money all right ken what do we got today's question comes from jack in pennsylvania says i'm struggling to decide whether to leave my job i'm a 31 year old attorney making 154 000 a year i've been the in-house counsel for family owned business for two years a very profitable company but our boss

and founder has severe personal problems he's engaged in illegal drug use for decades and suffers from severe mental illness everyone in the company is afraid of him and morale is low we stay because our high salaries and fear that every boss is like this am i a crybaby for wanting to quit no you're not a crybaby wait a minute i don't have any illegal drug use yeah

i do have severe mental illness well it depends on what article you read

it has been reported that you do i will tell you that that is that is true uh but let me just blow this myth up every boss is not like this you know i know dave that a lot of people who are in toxic work situations what happens is it becomes so toxic and there's a fear of change

domestic violence it is they'll put up with it because i found that humans are are more willing to be miserable than uncomfortable and when he leaves this is a successful lawyer 31 years of age making 150 for a

year you can make that somewhere else i would suggest to you there's several places jack where you can make way more than that as a lawyer so number one every boss is not like this number two you're not a cry baby you should quit but i don't believe in jumping even at the money you make so here's what i'd say bite the stick start looking find something else sign a deal and walk in there and say it's been great i'm out yep yep and

don't try to uh rebuke no i'm mentally ill no toxic

no sense in blowing up a bridge no just go uh it was good thanks yeah i got i'm moving on bigger and better things next appreciate the opportunity next year yeah my goodness drug use for decades

and you're an attorney yeah yeah and you're in you're you're an accessory what yeah dave i just want to say something really quick on this i just because i hear this every day on the ken coleman show i'm trying to help people pursue meaningful work so if you're if you're new to me here on the ramsay show that's what we're doing because we believe that that that everybody longs to make a difference in

the world and through your work and your relationships is how you do it we focus on the work side but i see this every day and here's another case jack represents all of us and there's so many of you out there that are watching listening today and you know you're supposed to leave for a myriad of reasons it's not where you're supposed to be and and one of

the big reasons that people don't leave dave is because they're so scared of the unknown and so they're like i'm miserable but i know what misery looks like i don't know what change looks like and so here's how you step into that when you the fear is of the unknown so what's the antithesis to that the known go get some answers go dig go do some research

this is a require resignation letter go look go look and begin to see what's out there when you begin to see the answers and then you see oh there's a path and there's another stone and another stone another and then all of a sudden it's not so scary but i'm telling you uh fear of the unknown is keeping people

from from leaving miserable situations number one and finding meaning in their work to show up every day like i do here and get to do something i love that produces results that we were out feed my soul yeah we were on the farm the other day and um doing some shooting a bunch of us and uh doing some tactical pistol stuff anyway one of the got his truck stuck in the mud

and you know there's two or three we know number one somebody else can pull you out yes that's what ended up happening here actually but um but i've got my truck stuck in the mud many times and you know one thing you have to do is you have to kind of get you gun it and get it moving and kind of get it rocking back and forth and and then you gun it and you jump out of it you don't you don't kind of like crawl slowly out

you got to get a little rock going that's it then you got to punch it so jack what i'm going to tell you is you need to get a little rock going and you need to punch it meaning that your hesitation in this highly toxic situation is going to lead you to want to stick your toe in the water i don't want you to stick your toe in the water i want you to go on 10 interviews in the next 30 days

that's exactly i want you to do this get it i'm out go yes you got to get out of there

now yes and you need to go look for

lots of jobs and interviews and all of a

sudden you're going to get confidence that it's okay yes and but you can't go on one no no and here's the other thing once you do this jack you're going to find that this is the nudge you've been needing you finally got to your breaking point please don't be like jack jack's a good guy but don't wait until you're miserable you don't even have to work for a bad company

you just got to not like that company that's all it is like we've got one of our senior developers here the top top web guy or when you're uh

coding yeah you know what uh techno technology guys senior developer i mean this is big time oh yeah and he worked at microsoft for a while and matter of fact before he came to us he left seattle and came here came to work for us and he was one of the top guys i mean some of the stuff he wrote inside microsoft was absolutely amazing and so why did

he come to work for ramsey well number one we won best place to work last year in the nation okay and microsoft didn't okay they're not a bad they're not bad people i'm not running them down but he looked up and said i want to write code for and i want to train young coders how to write code for something that matters yes i don't want to just write

it just out into oblivion yes just ones and zeroes out into the universe you know and not have any idea that it changed someone's life but when you're writing code you know here it's life-changing you're setting king coleman up to completely change the entire culture in america away from toxic work and you're setting

rachel cruz and ken and chris hogan and

dave ramsey up to get to change the entire culture inside of america when you're writing code to create a situation where the credit card becomes the cigarette of the financial world where peop where so many people have paid off their student loans and gotten free that their life was transformed because people like you were writing that code he wanted to be involved in something like that and by

the way we're hiring more yes right now yeah we need them we got lots of technology needs right now lots of senior coder you're out there listening man i need you you know product designers we need you uh you know front end back end platform we need you i mean we need you you go to daveramsey.com and click on the we're hiring thing i mean i'll just turn

this into an employment ad yeah by the way tell them that ken recommended you and i might get a little bit of a bonus on that does that work that way dave no it doesn't are they acting hard for the tax they have to know me no no you don't get anything i thought i was going to get that no you're not you're not in that you're not in that you're not that's not part of your comp plan again

i folks we are looking for this is a toxic work environment ken you don't have any money for that [Laughter] but you were saying i'm sorry i was having fun because we recommend people now i mean but the point is yeah that you know what we've got we've got we have we have we have we have a legal team here we've got a you know chief council that's right several attorneys on our sharp lawyers

because we've got all these uh governance and all these contracts and all these other things that we get into hardly ever get into litigation but occasionally we have to deal with that too but uh most of them is trademarking and all these other stuff and so you know that the guy that's our senior legal counsel same situation he came out of uh you know a situation that wasn't toxic

it wasn't that bad but it was just didn't matter what he was doing wasn't making a dent in the universe you know apple i love that was one of their vision things i want to make a dent in the universe we want to make a dent in the transformation of people's lives in ramsey and we are doing that absolutely we're in the process of doing that i mean we're we're changing massive numbers of people's lives here absolutely

and so when you're our legal counsel you know you're not having to work for a guy like this guy and no you're not a crybaby for wanting to have meaning to your work that's just called being wise by the way that's written on your heart i'm just going to tell you your creator writes it on your heart nobody has to teach a person to want to make a difference

you know just like you don't have to teach a toddler to take a toy from another toddler or a lie or to say no that's it's all on we all

want to matter we want to make a difference and some of you listening right now are doing the right thing in the wrong place some of you don't know what the right thing is some of you know what it is but you know how to get there some of you know what it is know how to get there and you're scared to take the leap uh we'll take those calls dave

and i would love to help you on that we believe in you because we believe that you were created philly unique role that you were needed and you must do it yep kencoleman.com to get information on what ken's talking about daveramsey.com if one of those positions sounds like something you need

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five tax season is upon us i know

try to contain your excitement no one likes doing taxes especially after a year like 2020 man it's a hassle to begin with but then you go look for help and these so-called free tax software tools get you knee-deep in the filing process and then they sucker punch you with add-on fees and they want to pitch you like 16 credit cards and a mortgage i want to try to get you into debt i thought i was just here to do my taxes thank you turbo tax drive me nuts man

there's a better way to do it it's announced this year a brand new thing it's called ramsey smart tax our team's brand new tax

filing software it'll help you file with confidence ramsey smart tax you get upfront pricing no credit card pitches no other side deals it's a killer deal no tricks simply help you do your taxes that's simple text the word tax to 33 789 hardly costs anything

tax text the word tax to 33

789 regina is in las vegas nevada hi

nagina regina how are you great dave it's a pleasure to talk to you and ken it's wonderful to talk to you i love your show i just saw matthew mcconaughey so that was wonderful thank you thank you wonderful now dave i

have to pick your brain so this is my story i'm a long time listener and i'm a first-time coordinator very happy coordinator by the way thank you um i'm working back at 37.1

working hard my only bed is my car about to pay it off by september because it's on the budget and it's an online item and it's on strict allocation great um the issue i am

having is i have an attorney bill that's 14 000 and just growing exponentially i have a line item in the budget for it but i just don't have a big enough shovel i'm working day and night i've got four jobs and this build is not going to go away i have an ex-husband who loves to play games so my attorney has

told me in an email that i either need to get a loan or borrow money from my children or he will not represent me i'm stuck

what would you do

uh so the ongoing hassling is over

child uh visitation

and child custody issues

it's basic he wants more he wants more he wants more of him more i pay child support he wants more so it just keeps going every year between i make 42 a year

what do you do i work for a financial

institution the growth potential is limited however

if you ever bring your your product out west i'll be at your front door you said you have four jobs what are the other three i work lyft i work uber i work side job and i donate blood uh eight times a month wow

i work every single hour of the day i don't go to bed till 12 o'clock one o'clock in the morning get up and do it all again who keeps your kids i'm working hard at getting this done i want the dead done who keeps your kids part i can't fix pregnant who keeps your kids um the

custody of battle is basically ongoing but i only have my daughter which is just my little girl on the weekends friday through monday

so i work like you know crazy when i

don't have her and any other days that i can i work what works i work at work what's his financial situation

well that's multi-faceted he hides his assets he has six cars two paid for homes and he says he's broke and he's a student he makes 11.50 an hour

well dave i want to fire the attorney but what do you say yeah i think you need a new attorney well that's a wonderful idea but i don't have another attorney that'll take me either i'm broke i mean i really don't have the retainer yeah i think that's your move uh you know here's the thing you have a 14 000 debt to an attorney if you have a 14 000 debt

to a bank instead of an attorney it doesn't bother me at all i don't care where the debt is if you want to move it and go borrow the money to pay him off that's fine in the process of doing that i'm going to fire him though i just don't have another retainer i know but i'm going to gather up the money and find a way to do this you know even if you borrowed a little bit for a retainer i don't care i mean uh or you sell

something or you do whatever i mean you're just you've been been doing this uh work your tail off and save money for a shorter period of time it's not been for two years uh this but the attorney thing has been going on for a long time but basically basically you're getting your butt whipped and somebody needs to turn the brass knuckles on your axe

metaphorically speaking understood

he's offered me a one-time 30 percent discount do i just go get this loan i mean i'm really out yeah he'll knock 20 off that'd be great if he'll knock 20 off that'll be awesome and then use that 20 percent to get the retainer together and borrow fourteen thousand if fourteen thousand dollars in debt when we started the conversation you now have fourteen thousand dollars in debt we finished the conversation somewhere else and you have a new attorney

your attorney's getting his butt whipped yeah he's terrible he's terrible with the information you gave dave and i a good lawyer who actually cares about you and wants to get this right oh i would he would say i'll take it on contingency because i want to take it out of junior boys yeah all the cars

yeah i mean you know we fixed this but

yeah yeah um yeah this is uh the thing and here's the thing the other issue is is you are going to have to continually like you have a like you have a chronic illness and you're having to every month write

checks to a doctor you have a chronic illness every month you're going to write checks to an attorney until you get this solved one way or another here and i don't think i don't think a simple retainer is going to do it that just moves it gets it out of his hands and you move on but um

you know you're you're working too hard to lose all the time uh kelly uh tell her regina

regina let's have you call my show sometime this week or whatever i want to spend a little more time with her on the shovel part you know because we don't have enough time right now to dive into it but i think we can get her a bigger shovel and that will help tremendously making more money will help this yeah oh yeah definitely would eric is in detroit michigan hi eric how can we help pretty uh thank you for taking my call dave um i was just wondering i'm looking at purchasing um my mom's house

i'm going to be selling my house and purchasing hers but i just want to know the proper way to do that i have siblings i don't want there to be any hard feelings of that i got a deal or took money from her or anything like that i just want to purchase a house for a good price but i don't want to overpay for it obviously so

i just pay the asking price whatever whatever uh um have it appraised and pay that or i'm not sure how to do it exactly well i mean that's the only way everybody's going to be happy it sounds like because it sounds like you're super concerned about it so it sounds like you're going to pay for an appraisal are you getting a mortgage no i'm not my

house doesn't have a mortgage on it i'm just going to sell my house and pay cash for hers okay yeah then i mean if you want to be super bureaucratic about it you hire an independent appraiser to appraise it for 400 bucks and you know you have an appraisal done and you go i'm paid full appraisal i mean who's gotta gripe with that yeah okay now i mean

i mean is that normally uh how i mean because we're not gonna be using a real estate agent no it's not normally how it would be done normally mom would give us give her son a discount i was gonna say i mean she probably would but i don't want there to be any hard feelings between from anybody else and it sounds like that sounds like that that's a potential right like you've got siblings walking around a little chip on their shoulder insurance like deed insurance or anything like that or i'm sorry i've heard of do

i need to get any kind of insurance like deed insurance title insurance yeah you need to get titles yeah i do need to get that still yeah okay and do i just go through a broker to you can get a title company to execute the closing for you they'll prepare the deed record the deed

help you know what all of the recording costs are you'll pay a little bit of uh legal fees and you'll pay for a title policy how expensive a home is this uh i'm guessing 250 000. okay your title

policy is probably gonna be a grand give or take is it okay something like that and then the rest of it's probably gonna be another 500 bucks and odds and ends depending on what it takes to record a

deed in your state i don't know how many what kind of level of taxes michigan has on recordation but um that's what you're talking about here and then there's no question if you had an appraisal that you did the right thing and if anybody questions it you just go this was the appraisal what else did you want me to do but it sounds like there's somebody in the pile here that's not going to be happy no matter what you do so you better be ready for that anyway that kind of goes with zitara tori

oh that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show [Applause] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice ken coleman

ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life your career because ken's here and questions you've got about you know getting the right job in the right situation especially at the right time which is known as now again phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five preston's in sioux falls south dakota hi preston how are

you hi dave hi kevin how you guys doing today better than we deserve sir how can we help uh dave i'm claiming to figure out if we

have self-insured and if you don't mind i've got some numbers give you a better picture of what i got going on so self-insured through what life as far as yes as far as life insurance goes okay i'm uh 52 my wife is 53

and we have a net worth of what i've seen about 1.3 million good for you well done

we have a 20-year term

life insurance policy one on each of us that exposes in six years

currently we i'm thinking about we're in the crossroads of updating that um or letting that lapse if i

die today um i'm figuring that my wife

should probably have that 1.4 million in addition to that i have a pension with a

spousal survivor on it which is about 48

she would receive until she would value what does she need to live a year uh that's been my problem all right right now uh to replace that salary uh on that

pension no you're going to get that she's going to get the pension of 48 000 right yep okay so what does she need to live a year she's got 48 000 how much does she need total i would say uh a hundred thousand a year

okay so we need another 50 grand you got a million for what's the million for invested got 800

investments i've got about 200 in the home and the rest is in the savings okay

so if the 800 produced

10 that'd be 80 000. yes

if it produced six percent um

that'd be plenty i mean you'd still be there okay and so the other thing i was looking at in uh six years when that uh the policy that we have expires i'm going to assume that that 800 should be above about 1.6 would you agree with that yeah 800 in investments you should double on it pretty close to double that yep okay assuming it's invested in good mutual funds

and you're making a you know a 10 plus percent rate of return that would get you there we've been following your plan for 25 years and it's all on the spouse with victory and that plane that you put on there it works and if anybody's questioning it they feel free to give me a call it works on a different level so you didn't you didn't inherit this money

this is all from the ground

i didn't up not one time in fact uh when

our parents when when my parents died uh i was fortunate enough because of you they actually pay for females um

we came from a different account and uh if we can do it or anyone can do it well way to go i'm very proud of you excellent job i just removed his laughter when you said so you you didn't inherit this from the ground up and he just laughed a laugh of that sort of knowledge that's absurd yeah of no and he was reminiscing

the journey while he chuckled you gotta love that yeah i mean you really have to be out of touch with life and have your head stuck up some kind of twisted ideology to think that people build wealth by inheritance because it is such a small percentage of wealthy people that did not do it themselves um i mean of all the 10 000 millionaires we studied we found well in excess of 90 percent

inherited either not enough nothing

or not enough to have made the millionaires they got 5 000 inheritance or something like that uh it's about 93 percent of millionaires in america wow our millionaires because of their

own saving yeah and so

and like he said you come from a neighborhood where you end up having to pay for your own mom and dad's funeral and uh so i mean that's not exactly

uh privileged no not in terms of a

racial thing but in terms of a an economic thing yeah nothing handed to them they they earned it you know there was also high percentage uh and i wish i knew it my brain's a little little slow on it you may know it high percentage of those everyday millionaires also loved their work 68 68

thank you as opposed to 68 of the public hate their work yeah that's exactly what it is 80 internationally and so what that says to me is is that when you when you enjoy your work and you find meaning in it you'll work a little harder because you enjoy it you'll go a little harder to make more money not only harder but you just tend to be better well you do better there's no question your performance is better no question yeah and so you make more money yeah you get promoted you make more money you invest wisely and you're 52 years of age and he's self-insured yeah is what the answer is a 52-year-old millionaire 1.4 million 52 is young dave well that our average was 51.

wow in the study that that's when they got there now he's been a millionaire a while he was a millionaire several years ago already because he's at a million four right now but um that's exactly what chris hogan found and and our team found when we did all the research and he published we published it in the book everyday millionaires and the white paper that you can even get uh at daveramsey.com if you want to read the whole thing but and it's not to uh sometimes i get accused of shaming people it's not shaming people it's quite the opposite it's saying anyone can do it that's right anyone can do it i'm so dumb i did it twice [Laughter] see that gives you that authority though hey i've done it twice i was a millionaire by the time i was 26 and i lost it all because it was stupid hey one of the most staggering uh pieces of data from that study i remember when chris first shader team about fell out of the chair but i was so excited to hear that i think the third largest group were teachers now i know for a fact that the median salary in the united states for teachers is 60 000.

in america and so so here's what teachers do teachers believe in processes and they steadily invest and steadily

invest and if you put 15

of your income away and you make fifty thousand dollars a year you'll have five million dollars at retirement not one you know but you can't put fifteen percent away because you're driving a car you can't afford you got a boat in the backyard they cost you five hundred dollars a minute

for with the use that you actually get out of it considering the insurance the depreciation and the payments you're paying on it um

i'll going to boat people in the middle of winter yeah there you go i was thinking about a boat now dave just completely flashed up no no boat for me this year

it's true though but it's doable that's the point it's doable it's very doable very doable this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today let's get real for a minute some of you are getting close to baby step four and you're freaking out because you know you need to save 15 of your income for retirement you have no idea how to start investing it's all brand new to you it's okay a lot of people got questions it's brand new you got to have somebody help

you with it you have somebody to walk with you you need a pro like a smart investor pro they can answer all the questions that you have in plain english they do not sound like people in the industry sometimes sound like charlie brown's teacher like wawa you don't even know who charlie brown's teacher is i do yeah because you know when it comes to investing you need to know what

you are investing in you need to understand you need to sit down and work with a smart investor pro that has the heart of a teacher and they're going to teach you what's going on so never again do you need to sit around freaking out take your time learn learn learn

learn learn invest based on that if you want to get ready it's time to do it time to start investing text the word invest

seven 233 nine text invest two three

three seven eight nine

reagan is with us in california i'm

sorry cleveland ohio hi reagan how are you hi dave hi ken how are you guys better than i deserve what's up so i've got a question for you uh i'm 24 right now and i'm actually on my trial period of ramsey ramsay plus i'm working on getting all my finances in order where they need to be um i'm on i guess baby step two i'm finishing up grad school one day

and i just accepted a job offer that starts on march 1st my question is i'm getting engaged in about a week and a half congratulations yeah thank you and i'm curious who i

should put as the beneficiary of a term life and uh term life insurance policy i'm about to take one out about after i get engaged and i know you're a big proponent of keeping finances separate until marriage i was just wondering should i quit her as a beneficiary

i wouldn't i mean

unless you have a child with her do you no sir no sir okay then no i mean i i would not put

her i would change it to her name as soon as you get home from the honeymoon or the week before marriage or whatever something like that but um i i suspect you're going to be engaged a little while and you're probably not going to get married two weeks later right yes sir i think that um we're shooting for something like january of 2022. yeah i i would just put so i don't

even know that you yeah you can go and get some term insurance if you want to but you know and truthfully changing the beneficiary on your term life insurance is not that big a deal it's not that hard to do it's a one-page form if you do it analog if you do it digital it's no big deal at all uh but yeah i i would not i would name a

you know like your parents or somebody like that as a beneficiary right now and then after you're married i would change it you're right i'm a big proponent of keeping it separate and the opposite is true for those of you out there when you do get married you do need to change it ken we had a call um

i think it was hogan me on the air a couple of weeks ago that uh the couple had been married seven years and he died and he had never changed his beneficiaries and his dad got all his 401k got all his life

insurance and he had three kids they've been

married seven years and he'd never gone in and changed it so me and hogan had a bit of a rant there on get your dadgum stuff changed

it's the opposite in the spectrum of this guy but yeah you know you you get married you need to sit down and go through the paperwork and be a grown-up and you know make sure your beneficiaries are all changed to your new spouse i've got a question for you and it's a true technical quote maybe it's too small so help me um why wouldn't he the day before a couple of days before the wedding go ahead and get it changed then yeah in case something that'd be fine awful which you don't want to think

you know week before week after but not not not no not a year not a year ahead because too many things happen too many things can go on and then you know it's um

you know i'm not even sure you need life insurance until you get married that's true in this case yeah so i mean if you were a single guy out there i i'm that might be the answer it might be that you wait yeah i was wondering what what's the what's the benefit now if there's a benefit of this new job that's termed life insurance and they're providing

it here it's going to name a beneficiary then that's a different thing right but i thought he said he was purchasing he did say that and i was wondering why why would a single guy need to get done insurance doesn't okay yeah you don't um if you're single and you have a little bit of money in the bank to bury you if something happened to you um

then i really yeah outside of that that's the only one you don't need a bunch of life insurance at that stage of the game he's just a responsible young man he's very excited he's just got his first job congratulations he's getting engaged he just is trying to check boxes off he's doing the right thing he is she's being smart about all that so good stuff brad's with us in wisconsin appleton to be precise hi brad how are

you good dave uh pleasure to talk to you first time uh call or long time listener well thank you how can we help well quick question i'm 53 years old my wife is 51 we are everyday millionaires thanks to you and your guys and your program great um but i do have one small debt uh

that it wasn't about death my whole mortgage just slow forty five thousand that has eaten me i want that gone um we do have uh to each have a variable

life insurance policy which cash value is about 35 000 in there

would you recommend taking that out and just throwing it at the mortgage and leaving you with ten thousand dollars left piano yeah yeah what's your hand what's your you don't have ten thousand dollars laying around in an account somewhere well yeah you do yes

yeah so let's just pay it off i mean i don't wanna just you know come up short but but the answer is yeah i would pay off your mortgage and yes i would cash out variable life insurance now if you do need term life insurance you would need to get that in place first now you said you're everyday millionaires are you in a position that if something happened to

you without any life insurance that she would be okay yes she's a teacher she makes about sixty thousand dollars and we have no other debt available you know we have no other debt i make plenty to to cover that person as well so and you have substantial investments it sounds like uh about eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars i believe in in ten investments yes okay now

and so that money could be invested and create an income to replace your income if something happened to you yes okay then you know if you if you consider yourself self-insured then you don't need you know and it sounds like you are uh if the kids are grown and gone and mortgages paid off i mean you're in great shape so yeah i'm gonna i'm cashing that puppy out it's a horrible place to have money

and the little tiny mortgage is a horrible thing so let's just get rid of a bunch of horrible things one conversation and a celebration you can tell it's really nagging at him touchdown i don't know if he caught that go like you can pay that off today yeah dave said you're free coach yeah you probably got 45 000 in one of those other accounts you could just write a checklist yeah

and pay it off it's not in a retirement account and then just replenish it with this now don't if if you only have 45 000 cash to your name anywhere then don't do that but i suspect that you know i'm hearing i'm hearing lots of zeros in this discussion so i think you're okay open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five aaron is with us in louisville kentucky hi erin how are

you i'm doing great how about yourself better than we deserve how can we help

so i probably geared more towards mr coleman um i am at currently the job that i'm at

isn't a bad job i just don't really make a whole lot of money but it is pretty secure you know um when

everything was shut down or whatever i still had my job and it was considered it's quote unquote central whatever sure but i have to really work a lot of hours to really make any

halfway decent money and so i just don't want to do that forever i'd like to start pursuing trying to find something better but i'll just be honest i'm fearful that

you know as soon as i go out get something something crazy happens they shut down again and then i can't work whatever job that

i'm getting let me let me set you free i get that we'll come back to you after this correct we can get to that okay we're gonna come back to you after this break i'm gonna put you on hold yes and bring you back around aaron uh because we've i want to give you a good solid answer and let ken spend a minute with you right here this is the ramsey show

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welcome back to the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with aaron in louisville kentucky and uh ken i'll let you pick it up yeah so aaron uh where we left off we went to the break you're in a situation where you've got a good stable job but for you to make any decent money you're having to work some crazy hours and your concern is

if you go take something else and do something else which is what i heard you say you want to do you're worried that if things go bad you're going to be stuck and you'll have left a stable job so there's some fear there did i about capture that did the the nail or the hammer on the nail okay great so let's just talk about what you want to go do what is

it that you want to go do describe that type of work

well i mean i mean if i could pick anything i mean i would try to grow a couple of my photography business but as far as just to go enter another job i mean no hold on hold on i love this hold on i love this let's talk about the plan to go do what you really want to do which is photography so is that tell me about that is that weddings all types of family photography what is that what does that look like uh

i mean currently that looks like anything that i can take a photo of honestly i mean right i mean weddings is you make there is really good money in weddings you do you know portraits uh well enough you know there's decent nightmare as well so my the reason i ask that is that the type of photography that you want to do um i i don't really have anything specific

you know that i want to do in that i just want to take photos i guess okay all right so so here's what we wanted okay that's okay so what i want you to do i've got a quick homework assignment for you over the next couple days i want you to begin to make a list of the type of photography that you most love to look at what what moves

you when you see photos what kind of photos is it photos of cars classic cars is it photos of sunsets i don't care what it is but i think you got to get in tune with this is the kind of photography that i get inspired by that i like to consume make a list of people who are doing that begin to look into that and do some research into what that looks like how

you can get paid what those rates look like just become a student of that future because that's what you want to do now let's move to a better day job what do you think from a talent standpoint that you could go do in your area louisville kentucky uh and put yourself in a much better paid situation what would you look at just another day job that's more stable what are

you thinking you know

honestly i don't know i i i you know

what i was thinking about was just trying just hitting the streets and just trying to see who's offering jobs and you know what what hours they're offering and i mean i'd like to be in somewhere

that's somewhat kind of like what i as far as hours go what i do now as far as like i i start work real early in the morning and and there's the potential of getting off at a decent time during the day where i still have time to spend with my family but you know like i said i'll go to do even do that i just don't make enough money

but sure okay so here's the deal something that paid better that had those kind of hours all right so here's what i want you to do i want you to think about what you do best just your basic talents that you can that you can take to the marketplace and you're good at your job now correct yes sir what do you do i'm a

mailman i don't work directly for the post office i work for a contractor that can correct myself so let's look at other jobs let's just start looking in louisville kentucky right now with jobs where you can be in a car you can set your own schedule certainly that early morning because you've got a nice rhythm there let's look where i can make some money driving whether that's a delivery truck

you know for you've got your national companies you've got local companies you've got food delivery just start looking to anybody out there that's looking for a very dependable driver delivery maybe some logistics work maybe in a warehouse you've just got to say hey here's what i bring to the table i'm dependable i can do this and you start looking out there and saying these are the jobs that are out

there and this is what they pay they pay more than i'm being that i'm being paid now and i don't have to work as many hours this is just a simple research play turning over rocks and find it now i want to address your fear unless you're applying for something that is some brand new company some startup that has no history you have enough common sense i trust

you aaron to be able to determine whether or not this is a risky move and it's not a risky move because the reality is the type of work you're doing and the type of work you can do you don't need to worry about it disappearing you just can't live life that way just move forward go get a better paying job that you don't have to work these crazy hours

and for the amount of hours you're working maybe you get two jobs hey aaron is this safe to say your job sucks

well yeah it's safe to say that

and it's steady so it steadily sucks right yeah steady's not all it steadily sucks i guess the thing dude dude say that i mean really you need to hear that and let me just tell you if you keep doing what you've been doing you're gonna keep getting what you've been getting yeah so it is time to do something different i don't know you can change your day job

you can start the car the photo thing on the side definitely do let's let's do something yeah because because right now we got sucks on steady yeah and by the way if something good falls apart sucks still there you can go back to it there's nothing to be afraid of here there's nothing to be afraid of well i mean yeah i'm afraid that you continue to do what you're doing that's what i'm afraid oh

i like that that's exactly right but here's the thing here's the thing there there is no

security no none except your own ability

that's right and you're not even using your own ability here you you know you're just you you've got an entry-level base yeah job that sucks

and you know and so you're not even you you're really not losing anything if you lost this because you know if you can develop a skill

you're always going to be employed at that skill yep because you know that you're you're only as secure as your ability to go land something else and you if you apparently if you're breathing you can land this job that's right but see here's where his fear is coming from his fear is coming from he simply doesn't know he hasn't done the research to see all the different types of jobs

once we see one job two job three job four job five jobs seven jobs you go wait a second oh i can do those now i'm not so afraid but it's that we talked about this before people would would rather deal with the misery than the uncomfortableness and so he just needs that nudge go the devil we know go find it and then

do it yeah it's just here here's the thing it's you're stuck and you got to get unstuck

yeah i mean but you've dug your own ditch here this is you're you know you know what a rut is it's exactly to say it's a grave with both ends kicked out that's exactly right nobody says it better than that that's what it is and by the way this is a rut of your own doing yeah so change it yeah today if you keep

doing if you do nothing that ken just told you to do and a year from now you're still doing that yeah it's your fault that's right your fault let's start let me tell you you're being paid about half of what you're probably worth oh absolutely he's driving a mail truck

i'm looking for a local company that does a lot of deliveries they've got manufacturing auto parts i'm looking forward to feeling doing uber eats he could double his income oh for sure by the way let's talk about the security thing because you just mentioned it made me think about this i get this call it's a false thing total i get this call a lot on the ken coleman show

you ready for this hey ken having made payroll as a small business guy and the first 10 years of this business the people were on my payroll i'm scared i'm scratching trying to make sure i got the money to make payroll on friday and they thought they had a secure job yeah if you've ever made payroll you know nobody is secure that's right that's right we get

this call a lot uh ken i'm on a contract right now and my contract's coming up and i just i feel like i got to move into something with a more stable salary they think salary versus contract and the reality is you could be a salary employee and get fired let go furlough just ask the pandemic yeah so just because you have a salary position doesn't mean that you're immune to having your job removed from

you well i mean here's an idea if you're self-employed and you have your own photography company every day you get up you leave the cave you kill something and you drag it home that's called security there you go that's where security comes from yeah and i remember i was making you know serious money the first time i ever got up close to seven figures and uh my sweet granny who uh

my grandpa worked for one company for 38 years never changed because he lost everything in the depression and he was so thankful for the job that he never left of course never left and uh that that generation did that this generation these last generations don't including mine but i mean i'm making serious bank owning my own business and my sweet granny would say now honey when you gonna get a real job wow

she still want me to get secure yes you know and she's sweet as she could be god rest her soul yes but she wanted me to be secure and i was making more yeah you know it was you know just but

you know self-employed get up leave the cave kill something drag it home man and you you got to change it aaron you got to change it man just because it's steady it just steadily sucks change it [Music]

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so [Music]

so our scripture of the day first peter 1 13 therefore preparing your minds for action and being sober minded set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of jesus christ

john f kennedy said there are risks and costs to action but they are far less than

doing the long range risks of than the than the long

range risks of comfortable inaction yeah exactly what we were just

talking about i've been talking a lot about that yeah so that's for our last caller there are risks and costs to action but they are far less than the long range risks of comfortable in action the way i like

to say it is would you rather get to the end of your life and reminisce or would you have to regret or regret yeah it's a nasty taste in the back of your mouth

dawn is with us in asheville north carolina hey don what's up

hi dave can you hear me yes

oh good thank you so much for taking my call it's a blessing to talk to you uh i have a friend who is dealing with the offer of a lump

sum settlement and i know you're gonna say to take it but she and i have run the numbers and i can't figure out why she should take it

okay a lump sum settlement on a lawsuit

no no um she her husband was disabled

and died and she gets monthly payments from the state of new york and they have offered now that her youngest child is no longer a minor they've offered to pay out a lump sum instead of

continuing to send her uh the money every month okay and how much was the lump sum okay the lump sum is

000 and how much are her payments she's receiving she's 61 years old and she gets 2 000 a

month uh tax free okay so she's getting 24 000

and she gets 225 and when she dies the

payments stop right that's correct

and when she dies if she has 225 000 in the account that goes to her heirs correct

yes sir did you have that number in your mind it's a 225 000. there's a 225 000

swing at death yes

0 or 225 000 at death and if you invest

225 000 well she will make almost as much

or as much as she's making now although it will be taxable

okay so she made 10 to be 22 000 a year that's 29 24 000 a year but i mean if you invest it well she'd be able to get 24 000 a year out of it

and uh and there'd be money left at death

okay so the my own

when i ran the numbers because the state says they use 87 as their life expectancy and when i ran the numbers it was like 647 000. that's not how the numbers

work okay the numbers work on what is your monthly income off of the lump sum and the lump sum

survives death it's not a total dollar because you're you're looking at how much i need to use the lump sum for her to get as much income as she would have gotten otherwise and in this case it's very you are right it is very unusual in that she might actually make less per month if she takes the lump sum and invests it even invests it well so what i'd recommend you do is sit with her with a smartvestor pro and have someone actually map out some real investments and not just deal with theory here on the air and let's consider then what she could really do but the big difference here is upon death there's not going to be a big difference while she's alive because it's not like they're paying her like it's seven percent and she could make 12 or make 10.

on some real investments you can run what's called a hypothetical on a mutual fund portfolio and you say if we bought these four mutual funds and we had owned them for the last 20 years what would they have turned out to be and what would that what kind of income would they have created and that's called a hypothetical analysis and it is using the history but to project

the future which you can't technically do you know you remember that you know a stupid butt line they use that the feds make everybody use in the investment world is you know past history is not indicative of the future of course it is right that's just stupid

jared is in colorado springs hey jared how are you i'm doing well good afternoon dave and ken how are you guys great man how can we help well we have a rental um and i

am contemplating selling it it's actually my wife's old house before we got married but

um i think it might be a peak time to

sell in colorado and i'm afraid of what the market's going to do it's been a really consistent rental for the past six years um what are your thoughts on selling to in order to pay off our home mortgage not a bad idea

uh the i would not use the fact that i think that the real estate market is going to go down in colorado springs is my reason because i don't think that's true

okay okay colorado springs is a vibrant

awesome market it's got that proximity to denver and denver's nuts on real estate prices and so

it's a wonderful town i mean colorado springs is an incredible place to live work own real estate everything and so i i don't think you're going to see prices go down there in the future but

if you're done with rentals you've had a nice run and you'd like to use that money to pay off your mortgage you'd love the idea of being completely debt free hey dave ramsey not going to argue with you on that dude laura is with us laura's in new york city hi laura welcome to the dave ramsey show hi thank you for having me sure how can we help well i am a licensed massage therapist

and a dancer and i'm wondering if i should

change professions my parents think i

should go back to school because the job mark is hard with the things that i do and you're a licensed therapist and a dancer yes are you a professional dancer as in broadway i'm a professional dancer i have not done broadway okay um have you made a living doing that or have you made your living as a therapist i have currently been making

my living as a licensed massage therapist okay okay but it doesn't sound like you

want to go back to school sounds like mom and dad think you should go back to school please don't live their dream yeah

yeah that's the problem actually i have been living or doing for a while that's also why i went into massage therapy what do you want to do what do you dreamed about you've dreamed about something anybody that's creative like you has had a dream you've got no problem with imagination what is it what do you want to do

i wouldn't do acting but i i mean i have been i've been auditioning i did get some

small like background okay so listen laura i want to set you free in order for you be an actor you got to stay in it this is a long game and i can't speak to your talent i'm assuming right now that you're not delusional that you actually have the talent to do it uh you've got to be a massage therapist or something else you've got to have a day job or two that gives

you the flexibility to audition that is simply the game we're in nashville we always say how do you get the next country music star's attention uh waiter order an appetizer yeah you

you're gonna have a plan that gives you the freedom to keep pursuing don't you give up there's always a chance to go back to something else but you need to walk through this and figure out what your long-term dream is has it shifted but don't live your mama's dream that's a bad plan right there that's not gonna even make her happy not gonna work out for you that puts us hour of

the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus [Music]

you

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## 200. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 11, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm john deloney joined

here by best-selling author ramsey personality and all-around good human being rachel cruz how are you doing great jon yeah family's good yeah we're good just surviving you know for real sort of thriving too it's sort of yeah it's almost the week can you sort of thrive it's almost the weekend thrive sounds like uh yeah i don't know if you can sort of drive thrive it is what it is we're there we're there very cool well we are taking your calls on life and money and relationships and all the

things that we can help you with rachel's really smart and i will help drive today so give us a shout at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to

carlos in tampa florida carlos what's going on hey how are you guys doing thank you for taking my call you bet man thanks for calling what's up so um i came from south america i remember my wife here in the united states we have a baby five months old now

and now we're trying to figure out what to do next when my plan was to get into a mortgage and get a house i came with no debt but my wife has an

80 000 in student loans and right now we have enough to pay it off i mean i'm talking about like 95 000 and the student loans is 80 000 but i'm

trying to figure out what if we should prioritize that instead of

thinking about getting into a mortgage and i'm just getting trying to get that advice from you guys carlos you're a stud man how did you guys accumulate 95 000. uh cyber security man i

t that made him my wife worked hard she said you said it like it was like a scam you were like cyber security bro we got it that's awesome man hey those

tech jobs they are they're paying she's an elementary school teacher as well so so that also helps that's awesome that's fantastic so great well carlos number one congrats on the baby i know your life has just been turned upside down in all the most wonderful ways so congrats so our rule of thumb here when we talk about buying a home is that we say we want you completely out of debt and a three to six months worth of an

emergency funds so your expenses that total three to six months have that saved in the bank and then save up for a down payment from

10 to 10 to 20 for that down payment

so those are that's the tactical the the what now the why behind all of that is that

you'll realize soon after you are in a home and own a home that a home home ownership is extremely expensive things happen i mean just the other day our gutters screwed up we had an ice storm in nashville and all of our gutters filled with eyes half of them fell off the house i mean it's just i need to get a new roof out of we got

it inspected high fived and then two months later we gotta get it well we went in the crawl space last weekend before a date and uh an inch of water in the car like i mean it's just stuff just happens when you own a home and it's expensive and so what ends up happening is a lot of people rush into home ownership because it's kind of the dream right like

you own a home and it's exciting and it's fun but you have no money you have debt and you have no money and people go in and end up that this house becomes

a burden and a curse rather than the blessing that it should be so carlos if i woke up in your shoes tomorrow i'd write a check for the student loans i get it i get it it's gonna hurt carlos it's not fun but listen but it is fun because at the other end of it though you have no payments you have nothing and then if you want to bump

the rest of that 15 grand up depending on your expenses save that and then save a little bit on the side you guys are killing it for a down payment then i would buy a home because i promise if you go this route even though it sounds just like this simple formula you will move into that home and when something comes up it's more like an inconvenience than a complete crisis

right one question i had out yeah

one question i had on that is should we be waiting or trying to wait for a loan forgiveness now that they're giving away some kind of forgiveness for teachers is that something i should be looking forward to well there's talk of student loan forgiveness from dc but pieces of it or yes but honestly here's the thing about the legislation all of that like it's not like the president of the united states can just wave a wand and it happens like there's a due process it has to go through to actually let

that happen and we don't know if it will when it will so in my mind carlos i don't want to i don't want to depend on washington dc to change my life or waiting on them to do things i i'm gonna control what i can control and right now you can control a lot like you yourself without dc can do a lot for your family and not to get too political

but they promise stuff i mean if you remember 10 12 years ago they said if you went to school and took out loans they would forgive those loans if you worked in a certain sector now so it's not happening carlos i had a ringside seat watching some of the most brilliant minds combined with some of the most extraordinary young men and women who went to law school

and i was an administrator to law school and many of them chose to go into the public sector to help the least of these in our communities because of the public forgiveness program and

then it was year six year seven after practicing when suddenly they would apply to have these loans forgiven and they were either it just completely ignored or rejected right right and here's the other part carlos and this is just me i'm a guy who signed up for a bunch of loans i got a i got we got too many degrees in our house between me and my wife

we signed up for a bunch of loans we didn't know what we were doing but we we did we saw the numbers they just weren't real and we something like oh that's a problem for a future don to handle i have a integrity i've got an ethical issue in

my soul i told somebody i'm gonna pay you back if you help me get through school you guys carlos y'all are of means y'all figured it out y'all have worked really hard and you've got this money here for me it's a matter of you know we can we don't need to wait on the government we're not going to wait on the government they may or may not who knows

and it's going to come with strings you got to have um you know public service all this other stuff you guys have worked hard you told somebody hey if you give us this money we're going to pay you back pay him back pay him back and then be done with it wipe your hands of it you'll have in a few months you'll save up that emergency fund

and then it's off to the races i think that's a great point too and i mean just to applaud you carlos i mean you guys are killed i mean he's from what do you say costa rica from yeah uh south america south america yeah i mean came in killed it i mean you're i mean you're doing amazing carlos and you guys can do this you can do

it the numbers are here and you're only going to go up from here that's the exciting part is like you said you have to meet like it's there because because you did what was right you know what's right like yeah so i hope that helps carlos and um probably more important than that call is this um you mentioned in that last call right before a date

y'all are hanging out in the crawl space i have to i have to explore this with you we can go here it's not that interesting no winston my dates are different me and sheila's dates are different we don't start in the attic winston has a crawl space that's like his man room like down under the house like where his tool bench is like the the shock in

the crawl space well they say cross-sites you can stand up in it so i guess it's time to stay in space the stance space the biggest traps down there no no it's not a basement because it doesn't have heating and air and all of that like it's anyways it's not that interesting anyways he went down to check on a mousetrap if you really want to know cause

there were mice down there and he was going to get seattle's mouth stripping inch of water inch of water so we gotta go get a lovely learning about my friends marriages because you're so different our reservations are in 30 minutes he's like i gotta go get a pump and i was like sounds like the beginning of a classic rom-com to me this is a classic rom-com hey

we got a date hey everybody let's head down to the crawl space it's called i i don't know

money and relationship triple 825-5225

give us a shout and we will walk along with you glad you're with us this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm john deloney joined here by best-selling author and good friend rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on life and money triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five the board's lit up and kelly's waiting for your call let's go to adam in syracuse new york adam what's going on oh no not much dr dean just come back from work calm

because i was wondering how to get my wife on board with everything that dave says you know i've been doing the program since late january and i got about

40 000 dollars in debt

not including her vehicle with her vehicle it'd be about 55.

and i just want to change my family tree and be able to purchase our first home by next year oh man well i appreciate your heart dude and congratulations on turning this first corner here rachel you've heard this question for years and years talking with couples yeah so adam what's her biggest hesitation what what causes her not to want to get on board

um well she works full-time as a nurse

at the va and she's also going to school

for her rn and i think she's really focused on that which i'm super proud of her for but i i

really don't know her hesitation she when i first mentioned dave to her she got out online read some negative reviews

for all of us i'm like believe what you

want to believe i go this guy is making absolute sense to me and i'm with it it's just hard to do it

by yourself yeah you're right it's almost impossible to do it by yourself if two of you are not on the same page okay so what i so it doesn't sound like she is because i talked to some people in the spouse is like oh i don't want to budget because i just want to have fun and not be accountable or some people say i just want to continue to do what

i do because i i deserve it you know i mean like there's kind of some entitlement issues that i hear a lot but i don't hear that from her i just hear that she's skeptical of the process so

i mean she she's the saver and i'm the spender and yeah um i'm i limit myself on

everything now so well i was going to ask i mean i just so i wonder if it just sounds like a really big thing to to to

bite off for her because she has all these other things she's doing and she's thinking oh this thing is going to take over but what you both have to understand is that yes when we say work as a married couple you definitely work together but one of you naturally is probably going to do more and be more excited than the other like winston he's the nerd in our relationship like he's

the one that honestly does the excel he we do every dollar for a monthly but he has an excel thing to map out the future he always wants to talk he you know he'll want to talk about it i'm the one that's like uh i kind of want to watch the bachelor like i don't like you know that doesn't mean i'm not on board but i'm not as excited as

he is or he's the one that pays all of our bills he he does it all even though i know what's being paid and we're on the same page so so for her she just you just need her to

you guys come together and agree hey we want to start this process but the heavy lifting of the tactical day-to-day can honestly come from you adam and that that's okay from from our perspective adam how did you bring it up to um

you know we were laying in bed one night talking yeah that's your problem right stop are you serious awesome okay so it's great you're laying in bed you roll over and you flutter your eyelashes at her and she flutters alice's back at you and you say baby have i got a deal for you is that how that went yeah kind of come on man you got to be

more smooth than that how long have you been married eleven eleven years been together yeah eleven years oh adam man okay so a couple things that

you said that i want to make sure are you a schemer have you always had some things do you always are you the guy who brings good ideas she's a saver she's a nurse she's working in hospital like she's she's predictable making it happen yeah are you the guy with like hey listen yeah

yeah i think i am so you

when you first called you talked about her car payment your debt and so what i would tell you is you guys have a pronoun problem and what i mean is if you have a you

and a her in a marriage and then the you is coming to the uh oh i'm sorry you're not here y'all are just together okay you all been together for 11 years yeah we have two children together and we've been together for 11 years ah okay so if you haven't committed right if y'all

are just riding this out together as a in a committed relationship why aren't y'all married can i ask yeah you can ask um i i think she's afraid of commitment

is she afraid she's with you for a decade brother sounds like she's afraid of you [Laughter] that could be like a very well could be adam you know the truth is is that is that real is that real uh

honestly i don't know but you're probably right on the money so here's what i would suggest brother i would suggest sitting down with her and talking about what's the future going to look like when you have two kids when you're not married when you've been together for a decade suddenly the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months and suddenly you've been together three years

and five years and we'll think about this later and suddenly the future starts to happen in front of you and that's when one of you peels off to go back to school to start trying to create their own future because we're clearly not on the same page i've got mine you've got yours i'm gonna go make some more money for me so i can get a different car for me

and suddenly you're gonna wake up and you're both gonna be sitting on a couch and you're gonna be two inches apart from each other you're gonna be 2000 miles away from one another and coming in with something like this program which is we've got to work super close together not close together we have to be one on this deal because it's hard and it is back and forth

and months on top of months and suddenly you wake up and you're a united couple and you're two or three years down the road and you have this entire new trajectory so when you talk about want to change your family tree right now you got two plants in the same house so at first you got to do is you got to decide we're going to have one tree we're going to do

this one thing together and we're going to raise these kids in a certain way we're going to build a future together and a part of building the future together rachel is we're going to do money together right so your heart is right adam your spirit is right your ideas are right but they're just out of order right now and the first thing you got to do is to circle back to

this extraordinary woman you've you've you've created a life with for the last decade plus and say hey let's make this a unified thing moving forward right for sure and the richness that comes from that so not just the commitment to say we're gonna get married not just the commitment that we're going to work together through money not just the commitment that we're going to do parenting together well like that whole life that you're bringing together it's almost like all

these separate puzzle pieces and you start to bring it together and it is a beautiful thing while i feel like people it's dog marriage it's stable right yes there's something about it that the richness of your life it increases because there's a level of vulnerability and um unity that you've never experienced before to say hey we're going to be in this together and it's it's something that

i feel like is it it it enhances your life

and it's something about there's something about being tethered in being anchored in not even knowing that yeah yeah and i'm gonna fall off this mountain sometimes but i'm not gonna die right i may bang up the side of it but i'm anchored into something yeah and somebody may shove me off she may shove me off but we are anchored in here right and so yeah it's circling back to we got to be on the same page working to gather

how hard is it so you guys how long you all been married 11 11 years okay there's a myth that

all of a sudden you wake up when then you figured it out and there's no more discussions no more eye rolls no more whatever when it comes to budgets right that's not true right no

no i mean i think the logistical side of the budget goes pretty quick like the budget meeting quote-unquote like we'll talk when we do it and it sounds like oh of course she does but we really really do yeah before the month begins we sit down we're like hey let's look at march okay well we're going to the beach this week on spring break we're going to do

this and this and you start kind of mapping out and we and so all of that takes eight to ten minutes like we do that fast but it's the other parts of knowing being known by each other in a deep way because money is it's it reveals a lot of who you are and so working that

closely with your spouse yeah can create some moments where like oh i mean i'll be honest like i love amazon right now i know people hate amazon but i'm like i can't stop and and like and it's under his like he created the account years ago whenever we got prime and so we obviously just share the account but i know every time i buy something it's he gets a notification i'm always like even though it's in

the budget and i know it i'm the spender and he's the saver so even those things and i'm like hey just heads up i'm getting um a new pan because our

non-stick you know we really needed the house and we need it but it creates it just creates the conversation that's right which is what i love so so for those of you out there who are three years in five years in it does get easier it gets more routine but it always brings you back to a conversation that's right right that's right we had one at tractor supply this weekend me and my wife oh we'll hear about that we won't

this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show triple eight two five five two two five i'm john doloni joined here by rachel cruz and it looks like on the

debt-free stage we've got a beautiful couple we've got jared and stephanie from las cruces new mexico and i think i know what this means how are you two good folks we're doing great how are you guys doing today outstanding outstanding all right so tell us about las cruces las cruces is a wonderful community that is about uh 1400 miles away we drove all the way here you drove all

the way here how long does that take you uh it's 20 hours we broke it up in a couple days though it was his birthday on monday so this is his present for your debt-free scream to be your present i love it very cool and so you're here to do your debt-free screen how much have you paid off we paid off 140 466 dollars

140 466 dollars and how long did it take

you 15 months whoa did you sell a house

no no you just crushed it okay so

how much what was your income what was your rate of income during this time so we started at 188 403 and uh we

increased it to about 206 512. 200 6512.

are you are you the nerd i am linda i'm hearing all these very specific dollars i was like man i'd be rounding up good for you good for you so 188 to 206

that's still a lot of money to pay off in a year that means you are making an extraordinary income and you're still doing rice and beans right yeah that's right i mean we we both work in healthcare and uh i mean this last year there's all kinds of work to be done anyway so we just we're able to pick up shifts and work extra wherever that may be

i mean stephanie is a nurse in the icu so i mean she picked up an extra 12-hour shift for about 20 weeks i'd say wow thank you thank you for your work though i appreciate that so take us back 15 months what in the world happened so i'll take it back a couple years ago i mean about three years ago i was i'm a pharmacist and i was doing a pharmacy rotation through

the rural area parts of new mexico and uh one part of that was i got to stay with my uncle during one of those rotations and uh he was well into uh dave ramsey stuff and he uh kind of he knew that i had a large chunk of change to pay off without the salame loan and he's like you know have you ever really thought about what you're gonna do at that point

and i i really kind of brushed him by for that moment my uncle john and uh yeah you know i did i picked up his i picked up dave ramsey's book the total money makeover and uh about maybe six months after that and i was i was absolutely hooked right away man that book was fire man it was just incredible and uh so about of course um

of course about two years ago my my wife and i at that time were not quite married yet but i had mentioned her kind of the stuff that i've been reading into and i was kind of not wholly going into

paying off the debt because i mean i i was still learning what that was about and uh she she initially was not on page but

um we got married and we both put our bank accounts together and just were we're on fire from there you know so this sounds like the start of a joke a pharmacist sits down to explain something to a nurse right how did that conversation go where you rolled your eyes and you were like no um there was a little bit of eye rolling but we had a few road trips to albuquerque where

we listened to the dave ramsey show together and then i was kind of hooked after that um because i got to hear it for myself but right a couple days after i got married jaren took me to my bank and used all of our wedding gift money and we paid off my credit card so that was kind of my introduction to what our marriage was going to be like all that money that

we got from the wedding was just sent away and she just was like i can't believe it so

how does it feel now because you guys started marriage this whole new way of looking at my i mean you did it all at the same time so now you're on this side of it you've been married a little over a year you're debt-free it was just crazy it was a crazy time um we were dealing with the pandemic like everyone else trying to figure that out working working as a nurse through that was difficult um

and then we were trying to figure out budgeting for the first time figuring out marriage for the first time so it was a lot of firsts for us and it was difficult but um we definitely praise god for all the support that he's given us and this was all him that's all we that's what we wanted to say that's why she was working 12-hour shifts it's like i'm good i'll be out i'm going to go do

this so what kind of debt was this this was obviously pharmacy school is really expensive so student loans what else my student loan because i had gotten out of nursing school a while before that but i was just paying the minimum payments i thought i would never be out of debt that was my mindset until jaren kind of showed me that we could do something different so

and then a little credit card yeah just between yeah we'll see the wedding yeah just took over yeah that's awesome that's awesome so what i mean you guys what the beautiful thing about your story is that you're starting all of this together where we talked to some couples we just took a call last segment right and you're they're together but they're not working together and they've already created

these kind of money habits in their own lane so you guys started from the beginning so what encouragement do you have for couples that are dating maybe they're engaged to get on the same page like how important is it do you think to be one in the subject when you get married absolutely i mean you i could not have done this without stephanie you know this i mean

this this was all kind of something that i had brought to her attention but if it been just me and not her i mean there's always that wedge that's always going to be there and um and that that that is something that we didn't want for our marriage we wanted to go into our marriage knowing that um that we we don't have to worry about the money issue as an issue

if we kept our bank account separate it would have been a little bit more you know there's more of a chance of it to cause an issue or trouble i mean i mean you always you guys know the rates of divorce i mean yep that's not something that we wanted to be in our marriage and we know um we knew what um what

what yeah no no no it's right no you're exactly right and and two last question with marriage because i think we we did a thing money and marriage so this is always fascinating i love here talking to married couples about it because would you say your your marriage is stronger now than it would have been yes i i think that the the most important thing a part of this is i mean there's a whole grind that goes about being able to pay off this debt and um and i i've absolutely lean on

stephanie and a lot of the things that we were able to do but god oh my gosh like there's times that you know you're just watching your your paycheck go straight towards the government and it's i mean we're we're living on much we're living on much less than what even stephanie made and it it's hard it's incredibly hard it's just it's just sometimes like why why can't

we you know go out to eat like we used to that's something we really enjoy and um but i mean when you give it to god when you just absolutely just let him

help you handle your finances because we are his managers it's his money um it it does get you over that hill and it's just that extra boost and that extra stone to lean on

because he's just always there for you and i just want to add of course it just runs over into every other aspect of your life so i started um kind of budgeting with food because i you know overeating is an easy thing to do um and i was able to lose 20 pounds during this wow and then of course we started budging our time with god more like

we need to make sure that we're always spending time with god every day and so that's something that we do now too and we have grown closer to god to each other um becomes stronger people spiritually yeah it's amazing this finance has nothing to do with it but we've also grown spiritually because of our right decisions in one area

it does it trickles through that's awesome well i'm ready so we i can't wait i can't wait for y'all so paid off 140 466 dollars

in 15 months making between 188 thousand

to 206 000 a better marriage better health better spiritual life man they did it jared and stephanie when you're ready count it down let's hear it three two

one oh glory to god

[Applause] oh amazing amazing

i mean incredible can you imagine driving up to get your you know driving up to get your uh medication and your pharmacist drives up in an 85 camry and you think what are you doing and he says i'm changing everything man how cool is that doing it all and that's what i love too because you sometimes hear about these high-paying jobs and these high you know these high earners

and they're just living that they're living to the very top of what they make living in fantasy okay and and they said you know what we're gonna scale down for one year for a year for 15 months i mean it's pretty amazing 15 months and everything is different what a great couple yeah no more 12-hour shifts this is gonna be fun fun fun for them thank you for joining us

this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm john delonie joined here with rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on money and life triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to mark in washington dc mark what's going on hey guys thanks for

taking my call i'm still fortunate to be able to talk to you and actually feel fortunate about the situation i'm in but uh first time in my life having a little bit of extra money is causing me some stress as well so it's not all uh roses there you go hey this is this is a good call to take so what's up man it's a good call uh here's the picture i'm 44 um hoping to retire at 60.

yeah just uh change jobs still in the same profession but what do you do man it's a better compensation i'm a surgeon okay so you don't mess around yeah uh you know i was hoping to get on the radio soon because i have a case at four o'clock but i have a small case i'm gonna be on time so it's okay you're actually you're replacing a knee as we talk man you're you're a talented guy so what's up um so anyway um yeah so um

the only debt i have med school and i've been reluctant to pay it down it's at 1.75 started at about 200 000 i got 120 left okay mortgage house is about 1.1 and uh down

to 550 on that refinance recently about 2.25 percent that's my only debt no credit cards no cars like that okay so you know recently i came across a bonus for work um for 2020 as the last

um couple mentioned you know 20 terrible

in general but for health care workers it did give us an opportunity to earn a little bit more sure so i i came across a work bonus um

about 169 000 and

where i'm struggling and i'm not trying to say i'm in a terrible situation but i have bouncing around in my head you know how much do i keep in the bank i've never started a 529 how much should i put in a 529 do i do a 457b dump it all into a

brokerage account do i look at long-term care so i'm in that position and i just sort of can't figure out what what to do you got it man well thank you so much number one in a you keep you keep using very passive language you just like we're walking on the street and stumbled into a bonus my guess is you worked your butt off in some really scary situations in a

you were there when people were hurting and you earned that bonus and i'm grateful for all the work you have done and i'm grateful for your wife holding things together while you've been um working like bananas this year so yeah you earned the bonus for sure um i have worked behind closed doors with doctors with their coaching folks through mental health challenges through relationship challenges and whatnot

and i'll tell you something that's always been a mystery to me is the love affair between a doctor a

medical practitioner and their student loans you guys

love them you love to hang on to them and pet them and sing to them as though y'all are in love and here's what i think it is i've got i've got one person that i i work with now whose kids are in college

still has his student loans right loves them deep in his heart right and i we i give him a hard time about it but it comes down i think to looking at this as a math problem instead of a psychology problem and so i if i'm you and rachel hop in here yeah sure i would take that 165 000 and i would pay off my med school before the day is over today

i'd pay it off i would be free from all of that and then i would start considering going down the rabbit hole getting my house paid off and then moving forward kids called yeah i was going to ask mark what what causes you do you relate to what john just said like what causes you to keep the 120 around yeah yeah so i mean it's just the leverage of

the 1.75 percent i i i have this challenge you know in my life to uh meet somebody that has a lower interest rate on their student debt yeah and i haven't come across that person yet you know i'm out of med school about 20 years 30-year loans but i just feel like i can beat that rate it doesn't weigh on me um you know having that having that burden

it really doesn't my wife's totally fine with it i just feel like i can beat that beat that rate yes so i think that's like you're saying

you're hitting on the math stuff and you don't feel like it's weighing on you and all that and you're in a great position so honestly you're not losing sleep at night over this thing you're not mathematically because it's a small percentage of everything you have but i would tell you mark if you paid it off today and you woke up tomorrow i guarantee you there is a level within

you spiritually emotionally all of it that just is gonna exhale just so just a little bit you may not even realize it because you've been hanging on to it for so long so what we teach is getting completely out

of debts first and foremost and so that would mean yes just going and paying it off just getting it out of the way you have cash in the bank you earlier in the call i wrote it down you have a hundred grand what was the hundred grand at the very beginning the call is that cash that you have i know you have seven hundred and we're talking about yeah your hundred dollars just sitting in a

you know savings rate yes that's great okay so i want you guys to get and see how much is six months worth of living of expenses for you guys you're in dc so it's probably going to be a little bit higher dollar amount than someone living in iowa figure it out what your lifestyle is and keep that so maybe it's that maybe it's a less a little more

i don't know so put that aside keep that just boring in a boring money market account boring savings account because that's going to be your liquid emergency fund if something happens then i would start to look at your kids college and their ages again are what 10 and 8 10 so i would set up yep

yes so you may not even qualify because of your income for an esa so you may want to look at a 529 plan and start putting some money away for their college i think would be the next best step to look at and then at the same time be funding retirement and throw an extra at that house and because you you have your house halfway paid off which is amazing

so i mean you haven't yeah like we said an incredible situation market i think you can make a lot of ground financially if you just stay focused you know you're doing a couple of things here and there it's kind of all over but if you just make these steps and you guys do them you're going to find progress financially so much faster i think than you have mark what kind of surgeon are

you i'm a cancer surgeon cancer surgeon wow and so is it are you at on the front end

or are you more in stage four acute care

um well you know actually both um as a cancer as a surgical oncologist um probably about sixty percent of the surgeries we do uh the final diagnosis is actually not cancer right so you know there's people that get referred to us so i'm on the front end but i'm also you know an everyday sort of sort of surgeon um working in the office working in the or so is there a up early on especially march of 2020 march april may um the the folks in in in my in my

sphere just my buddies and folks that i i am connected to man they they puckered up the elective surgeries overnight right and there were some folks that were really scratching their heads about man if we don't open up some of these low-level things the whole hospital system rolls over because so much of our income is based on come on in were you and was that your case too

so it's really interesting right so we shut down for six weeks in april and may the health system i work for health system um they announced they were losing publicly announced they were losing about a hundred million a month due to the elective surgery crisis so there were you know there were places crumbling sure and we were concerned about um obviously the health system the patients we take care of our own livelihoods um

but i don't know if you're seeing this in your sphere but what i have seen is now that now that people are home people want their elective surgeries because they don't fit this work so i did more surgeries in 2020 even

with shutting down for six weeks than i ever had done any other year in my career and that trend is continuing yes very cool so here here was where i was where i was aiming and it rebounded really well for you which is excellent the folks that i talked to on the front end of this deal really got scared

because they thought that that election that elective surgery world was over and here's what i'm getting at if you even if you have this low interest rate and yes man you can sit there and give me a spreadsheet and make the math work and as a surgical oncologist that's what you do in your head probably nobody knows risk like you do nobody can sit down and say here's probability here is i'm gonna be

the the i'm gonna walk into this room and i'm gonna make sure somebody stays alive to tomorrow that's an extraordinary uh power for lack of better terms but i want you to go back to if you've got no payments you've got no debt you've got no stress if elective surgery is shut off then you can be all about how do i help other people not how do

i keep from falling apart thank you so much mark for your service and for your care man we love you this has been the ramsay show thanks for joining us and we'll be back soon right here

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your money and your life

i am john deloney joined here by best-selling author and good human being rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on life and on money triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel how are your little ones doing they're doing great just man

five three and one five three and one yes and i've got almost 11 and five

you space them out well i feel like i have a thousand people in my home and you have a million and a half oh it's there's a human everywhere a human everywhere and one's crying always but it's great you know it's great it is funny though like there's some days i'm sure every parent feels like this we were like man that was like a good like that was a good day

and then some days you think what did we do what are we doing what are we doing the random thing that my wife will say she'll walk through house and she'll just quietly toss away remember when we used to think we were busy i know remember we used to think we were tired remember that and she'll just keep walking through the next room it's so great i laugh all

the time though because i think i remember so specifically it's like so in my head i we had this this lady in college she like mentored a group of us and where we'd go to her house and we'd talk and we just like oh my god i'm so stressed elizabeth i have like three exams this week like i'm like yeah i have she had four kids i looked back

and i'm like her husband worked a lot like i'm like i just want to call her oh she probably thought you have no idea no idea you have no idea when i told my dad i called him and said hey listen you're gonna be a granddad

there was no fireworks there was no ah my son his response first response was well you're never gonna sleep again and i remember thinking like that was kind of deflating me that was the most prophetic thing i think my dad ever told me man well you have good kids though you all came over a few weekends ago and had dinner with us yeah hank i mean yeah yes they're both wonderful

but hank is just the sweet i mean talking to charles by our 16 month old boy oh he was like can i feed him when someone's taken out to bed he's like do you need help winston like oh yeah so listen in the car right before we came in your house we said listen so sweet to our two kids don't screw this up for us for every kind thing

you do we're gonna we're gonna give you froot loops and whatever sugar money yeah we're gonna pay you kids and my son was like dad let's just do it because it's right and my daughter was like sweet how much that's awesome all right let's go to the phones let's go to erica in houston what's up erica hi dr john and rachel i'm so grateful to be talking to y'all

and we're grateful that you called what's up well i have a what i would consider a good problem my business has been extremely busy lately i own a couple therapy private practice i can imagine so

exactly and um so i know

it's time for me to expand into adding some more therapists to come work for me that i would train under me and right now i have two interns um but i am still seeing about eighty percent of the the revenue comes from the services that i offer um so i've been having some trouble finding somebody to hire and now i've kind of uh i'll call myself out i've had some really bad boundaries i just started taking on more and more clients uh myself and i

find myself with low energy to be able to really do much else other than to see my clients and write my notes and supervise my interns and that's about it and so why do you why do you feel like you have to expand your business

sounds like you love counseling other people i do um i also love supervising

and i have another business i would like to start that would be uh separate and so i would like some energy and time to be able to give to that and not so much into the clinical work although i still like to maintain clinical work gotcha well i was going to point to you john cause you're you are in this world i mean yeah what i find with therapists is they

you get to a point where it's exhausting right erica you see clients eight hours a day and it's at weird hours and it's one of those things where if you stop and just like hey i'm gonna go home tonight and have dinner and watch a tv show there's that part in your brain that says well that was 100 bucks right you can always be working always moving

and then you the next conversation is what's passive income look like are we going to write a book and then you realize there's not a lot of money in books and i want to create a curriculum and i want to start work so you just start explaining so why do you want to expand things do you want more money do you want more um you want more reach

to help more people what's your goal here i think it's it's two of those things i do want more reach to help more people and be able to offer a variety of

services so that we can treat more people across the community and then

my other business is also focused on mental health so minimalism and mental health and i'm going to need some time and energy to be able to put into creating that content to be able to put that out into the world which would also help more people gotcha are you able to let other people do their job

under your umbrella differently than you do it but still effectively

yes i've been working on that because i did hire a virtual assistant um not too long ago and so i think that's given me some muscles in that although that is difficult for me and i would say to erica you can probably speak into this john because you're specific my brother-in-law he's a therapist and he's has a wait list all of that i mean like it's it's insane

but people come to see him not a practice necessarily right they want him so how much of your clientele erica would be okay to go see someone else like the percentage in that because i know that therapy it's such a personal thing right you you that people want to see you i know that's why you're so good um what

would it look like to bring on say those two interns but you make them full time do you think you'll still have the same amount of business do people will your clients feel comfortable going to someone else um we've

seen some trends in that so there's still obviously more people calling for me once they learn that they're that the other people are trained under me most clients are pretty open to that that's right that transfer of trust there yep perfect so here's what i'd recommend erica i i would recommend i just have experienced this with my buddies who are therapists they get so excited and then

they go to a training and it always comes at a time when they're exhausted from their day practice right they're just hearing the same married couple fights over and over and they know what they're doing and they're good at it in fact they're excellent at it they're getting the same calls and they go to a training and they experience something new and they're like i want to do

this with this group of people and i could crank out this business and i could hire these people and then you get a napkin somewhere in a restaurant and you map it out you realize oh we can make this much money and help this many people and then you start as as our friend ken coleman says you you jump off the dock before the boats all the way up right

and so i'm going to do two things one we're going to give you a copy of our friend christy wright's business boutique which is going to give you some actual it's going to help you walk through the steps of starting a new business right you know how to run a business you're running a successful one but right now the business is you and so how do you step away from

this business and then come up with how do i hire how do i train how do i do payroll how do i do hr how do i do training how to do marketing all these things while also keeping the practice going and the second thing is i want you to take some time to i don't

sound so cheesy i want you to take some time to dream and actually paint a picture of what this is gonna look like yeah right what would a a friday afternoon look like for you if your full your real business is running your supervision business is running you've got a group of counselors trained underneath you and then you're gonna have to reverse engineer that back and what do

you have to start doing right now to begin to build that practice and then you're gonna have to work on those boundaries and you probably have to see one of your buddies to help you with that one erica because that one's a challenge for all of us who love helping other people but i appreciate your question and houston needs more therapists i'm glad you're there don't give up on

it hang on the line and kelly will get you that book stay tuned this is the ramsay

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you know healthcare has gotten to be ridiculous it puts people um you know on the brink and so it would have put us on the brink had we not had chm chm saved our life

same problem financial lives christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians learn more today and check us out at chministries.org that's chministries.org

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triple eight eight two five five two two five taking your calls on money and life here on the ramsey show let's go out to charlottesville virginia and talk to logan what's up logan how are you doing hey john hey rachel how you guys doing good good good what's up um so a little debate here between my fiance and i oh you're going to drag us into it huh don't be the typewriter so we're getting

married uh on may 30th so coming up pretty soon um and we recently started fpu

um we're feeling pretty good about it pretty gazelle intense between the two of us right now we're working seven jobs in in two weeks went from 11 grand in debt to 2 800. so way to go man working pretty hard with that yeah thank you um so

and i know this is a little farther down the line but one of our goals um is to purchase a house with cash um

within the next 10 years or so um however i was thinking about it and i think so what she wants to do is just save up after we get done with baby step three go into uh 3b and save up specifically for

the house however i think because of how

young we are i think it would be more beneficial to use that time to open up a roth i.r.a i'm going to max that out at 6 000 every year and then what's left over after investing into that um

put into either a money market or a mutual fund to save for a large down payment on the house because we're right now i'm i'm 19 and she's 20.

so the yield on that would be a lot bigger if we start earlier sure so the debate is save up and pay cash right away for the house or not right away it'll take years to save obviously or go ahead and take out a mortgage and continue on is that that's the debate right save up and pay cash well no either either way we wouldn't be we'd be purchasing the house at the same time it would just be do we want to spend these nine

ten years before we buy just

saving for the house or should we invest into retirement and then what's left over after investing every year put that into a savings for a large down payment on the house but you're saying down payment when you put it down payment you're taking out a mortgage though so it's not cash right right right i'm sorry not not not i thought you were saying by now but no would be

the same time but yes yes okay let me let me make sure i'm understanding this i'm sorry i so do you take let's say there's a hundred thousand dollars do you take 50 of that and start investing it now do you have a hundred thousand dollars though logan like i'm not making that up yes but i'm saying but once you get once you guys pay off your debt you're gonna save up for that emergency fund three to six months worth of expenses

then what we would suggest that you do if you want to buy a home then is to save up babysit 3b for a 10 to 20 down payment and then start investing i would not use baby step 3b to save cash and not invest

in a roth ira so i'm more on your side on it i would i would go ahead and keep putting money away now if you want to use it would be baby step three right baby step four is investing and if you wanted to say hey we wanna rent for six years and we're gonna save up and write a check for a house in six years while we invest you can totally do that i think that that's a great idea but i would not miss out on the investing to save up to pay cash for a house does that answer your question okay yes yeah i i wouldn't because because like you said you guys are you guys are young you have the time a mortgage is the one type of debt we won't yell at you for so if you did decide hey we are going to just do a down payment of 20 go ahead and do the 15-year fixed rate do the formula to buy a house the right way that's great you can do that but if you guys were kind of more on the quote-unquote weird side which we like weird people and say hey you know we're going to rent a small apartment we're going to live on nothing and we for for eight years we can save up x amount and pay cash for a house but we're going to do that that's awesome and you've never had a mortgage in your entire life that would be that would be great so either either one of those is totally is as great from our book yeah does that answer your question i'm sorry i know that was a long way around but okay no that's fine uh it does yeah thank you and logan um not to oversimplify this but you're 19 she's 20.

y'all feel like you're 100 years old right now and then when you turn 30 you're going to feel like man we're really young right now right and so it feels like you if you mess this decision up it's man you might as well you're not going to start over your marriage is going to be off to a sideways start you all are so far ahead of the average couple getting ready to get married yes

you just need to stop and pause for a second y'all are crushing you're gonna get married in a few months you're gonna be off to the races and go slow do it together right then

and rachel's right when you when you're 30 you're gonna love that you have a retirement account that you started when you were 20 21 years old you're also going to love you got a big chunk of a down payment or you all went ahead and rented for a few more years and just started your whole new family tree with no mortgage at all that's right that's going to be awesome all right

let's go to gary in arlington gary what is up hey what's going on doctor d rachel how you guys doing good good good what's going on in your world man yeah so uh i'm in pharmaceutical sales i'm 27 years old i've paid off about 40k already in student loan down nice way to go brother i'm pretty much debt-free but i got this car situation that i'm kind of hung up on

i have no idea what to really do so my parents guided me into this release of a rav4 um after i graduated

oh no gary dubalisia i think we just lost you gary oh there you are you back

oh yep i'm here guys okay all right so your parents talked you into elise the rav4 yep rav4

um paid off all the lease payments so now it's like do i save up this money i

got about 15k left i got about 4k in savings uh

i'm starting to build up my uh emergency funds but i'm just wondering like should i like build up and start saving to buy this car should i maybe take out a loan pay it off sell it take that equity that i have left and then maybe try to roll that into a car that's a little bit more affordable since i am going to burn this car into

the ground with how many miles i drive so i'm just wondering like what i should do with this car i feel like it's going to be a sunken cost if i don't like just keep on trying to like maybe save up for it like buy it so i was just wondering what you guys thought yeah and you the 15k is what was that you said at 15k

and what uh so the 15k is to buy the car to buy the car okay i hear you i hear you yep yep so the lease payments are done so i'm just like what do i do with this like i feel like i almost have a part of this car but it's like i would just kind of hate myself if i just like gave it up i would have to pay

the mileage overage that i'm currently accumulating with this job how much is that how much is the mileage over so i just passed it not too long ago with that so the cap was at 36 i'm at like 38 right now it's i think it's like 25 cents a mile for

21. for 2021 you've already passed the cap

oh no this is a 2018 rav4 no no but i'm asking you are you talking about for the year you've already passed your cap or for the the amount of the labor for the the arc of the lease so over the three years i was given 12k

mileage per year um and i've already passed that like i'm past the 36k that that's been allotted for the lease so you're out so the lease is the lease is the lease is done correct lease is done these payments are done i would i would need until the end of this year and that's when the lease is technically up and that's why i need to make a decision am

i buying this car am i going to turn it in yeah should i buy and sell it yeah if you don't if you uh gary if i were you if i didn't have the cash to go ahead and buy it whatever that if that if it's that 15 grand or less at the end of the year depending on the lease payments i wouldn't buy it i would

i would be done with it even though you kind of take the hit and then just start over chalk that up as a mistake and then go pay cash for another car because that's good okay how far cheaper than 15 grand what's your penalty gonna be do you know

uh well if i keep on driving it like the

that 25 cents a mile is just going to start cueing accruing that's just going to be ridiculous i think at the end of the year yeah so like that's why i'm trying to like kind of like what should i do with this car like do you guys think like taking out a loan and then like trying to sell it and then pay back the loan immediately once i sell the car and then do it no it's kind of like not like yeah no

i wouldn't advise that because the only time i would take out a loan is if you were upside down in the car not through a car lease but a car alone you're trying to pay the gap off and get out of that yeah so i i would get out of the lease as soon as possible gary if that's at the end of the year do it and

then just scratch it up to stupid tax that's what we call it around here and so you would pay that off and then go buy a car that's going to get you yeah that's going to let you use this car because you're going to run into the ground anyways you don't need a brand new one

hope that yep gary sorry that's an expensive whap upside the head huh yes

don't get a lease with a mileage cap if you're in a job that requires you to try to be a traveling salesman come on parents you got it gary you can do it though i believe in you because it's a good clap this is the ramsay show

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[Music] 825-5225 taking your calls on money and life let's go to justin in new york city justin what's going on

hi guys uh nice to speak with you um i've been listening to dave for a long time and i've been focusing on my family my wife and myself and our income and

getting our debts taken care of and such but it took me a while to realize that my in-laws have been failing on their own and i'm trying

to get them to move out of their home and downsize to a smaller house and having that conversation hasn't been going so well um and you know my brother-in-law's been giving them money to take care of the mortgage for a while and they just they can't afford the house they live in they do have equity in it and i'm trying to get them to sell and cash out

and then downsize i wanted to get your opinion on how to go about what's there reasoning justin to stay in the home that they can't afford and they're having to take money from their son to pay their money i'm not i don't i

don't quite understand all of it but it's it's you know they've been the house for 25 years okay they've come to live in that lifestyle and downsizing just i guess and they think

they'll be looked down upon i guess it's a hurt to their ego it's like a kind of a little bit of an evil it's correct not enough of an ego hit that they're going to take money from their children to cert keep this mirage that's what i've been saying yeah so this is going to be hard to hear i don't get it yeah and that's here's the thing there's nothing you can do man um you can i say nothing you can you can

force the bottom you can be a kind person you can have this one hard conversation where you are respectful and you treat them with dignity and you you take a more

curious route hey tell me about what what the plan is moving forward you're working on your legacy with their daughter and with whatever family you are going to have it can become a curiosity thing but man you can't walk in and make anybody do anything and as you know this isn't a math problem when grown people start taking money for their from their kids not for food but for a

fantasy man we have left the the

the cognitive reasoning area right

that that ship has sailed yeah absolutely i mean that that's it justin i mean it's kind of a it's a it's a hard answer to your question which is how do i convince my in-laws that they need to downsize you can't convince them i mean i think that you can be a place to say you you and your wife can choose not to enable that behavior so

if their son can't afford it gets to a point where he can't afford the house payment you guys can set a very clear boundary that we're not going to help you fund this lifestyle and we're we will not be that back up i mean there's things you know that you and your wife can have together to know this is how we're going to do our life in our marriage um versus how they're doing

it but yeah

there is no convincing unless they're asking questions and want to know so justin have you sat down with your brother-in-law and talked to him about his enabling of of their lifestyle yeah i've been having that conversation as recently and uh he gets it and he understands but i don't know if he's assertive enough to um you know

really go hard and cut them off to kind

of direct them in the direction they need to go well i think for you justin if there's one more thing you can do just for your own self and tell me you're the therapist over there but i mean for you because you and your wife i'm sure are concerned and you hate this for them because it's eating up their money they're having to take money for i mean it's just not it's not a good situation

so for you too because it's it's her parents it's not your parents so both of you or even just her to say

hey mom and dad and it's the last conversation we're gonna have about it but for myself i just need to say out loud i'm concerned about you guys i hate that this is where life has taken you and i just i see the writing on the wall and i feel

like you would have a better quality of life if this house wasn't sucking the life out of you and you're having you can't afford it so as your daughter that's what i see whether you choose to take that or not i just need to say that for myself and then that's it like i don't know yeah and at the end of the day anything you carry with

you justin and it's gonna be hard for you to hear is a choice to make your day worse is a choice to make your marriage have conflict in it because you can't do anything about that conflict like rachel said you and your wife can talk about how firm your boundaries are gonna be not if but when they come knocking on your door for money how firm your boundaries are gonna be

if and when they lose this house because they run out of money and they're gonna have to move in with you y'all can have those conversations now but man there's no sense in just beating your head against the wall it's not gonna change it's frustrating and parents don't rob your kids of their

legacy because you're living in a fantasy world don't do that to your children if it if you need money for food if you

need money for medical care yeah you call your family if you think wow we got this really big house and it's important to us because we feel don't do that to your legacy come on all right let's go to tj in nampa tj what's going on

all right afternoon rachel thanks for taking my call i appreciate it you got it man thanks for calling in what's up well well i just want i need a little bit further advice on uh what next to target on our debt snowball here got a genius sitting next to me so you called the right place brother so what's up well um wife and i of course uh didn't

uh do the smart things we were actually pretty dumb early on and took out a bunch of student loans going to college and after we both graduated we're done with school uh here we are we ended up with uh combined between the two of us we got

uh just over 100k in uh student loan debt we rised up after we had

shocker when there was a kind of a family event that happened and it forced us to move back in with my folks for about three years but during that time we paid off all of our unsecured debt other than

just the student loans and now we've finally started to climb back towards solvency and we we got the house that we've been in for about three years we just recently refinanced it to get it down to a fixed uh 20 year it was on a 30-year variable and we owe about 140 on it right now

payment on the house is just over 9 30 payment on the student loans right now most of them are ibr and the rest some total about 220 but that's not even enough to cover interest on the on the loan

and so your question tj is which one to pay off you're asking the student loan or the house right because we're to the point now our vehicles are paid off our credit cards are paid off we finally got smart and buckled down paid off about fourteen thousand dollars in credit card good for you guys thank you and then we also paid off both uh vehicles um but now we're just to the

point where we want to know what to tackle next um if we tackle the house it's not much

more as far as the the balance

but the the strain on the budget is much greater i hear that yeah it might help us to snowball the student

loans on the other hand the student loans the interest is killing us it's actually the balances have gone up this year over the last even with our payment yep i hear you well i'm going to stick to our rule of thumb which is paying off all of your debt at your house and so that student loan it's the last one and it's the hardest mathematically it's the hardest mentally

because it is a mountain to climb right you like you guys killed fourteen thousand dollars in credit card debt like yeah a hundred grand is a lot so is that hundred grand how many are there are there multiple loans within that number i'm assuming

yeah there's about uh eight to ten okay

so what i would do tj because there's almost a mental game to this we always talk to people about when you're paying off debt that you need that momentum right and you guys kind of felt that i could hear in your voice yeah we paid off fourteen thousand dollars in credit cards like you couldn't feel it so on a sheet of paper i i would i would map out

i would break out that hundred grand so instead of trying to tackle everest you kind of have these little these hills right that you're working towards and that's going to continue guys on so i i would for sure tackle the student loan debt and if you can break it up even just for your own sanity i feel like that that would be helpful as well when we had my wife

and i had six figures of student loans we this sounds so cheesy but we made little little chains yeah and they were of the little loans right and every time we got one every month we would tear one off and some months i would just sit there and we actually hug it in our bedroom how's that for that's real man heavy uh bedroom decor sheila was like thank

you john thanks man all i wanted no john you really just know how to doll up a room but it so much you sit there and see it and it just but you never forget it right and then it gets smaller smaller and yeah it's just biting that elephant one eating that elephant one bite at a time that's right oh man thanks for that call tj just keep plugging away little steps little steps little steps

you got this you got this you got this we'll be right back this is the ramsay

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triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsay show i'm john deloney joined here with best-selling author rachel cruz taking your calls on life and money let's go to chilo in los angeles california chilo what's up

hello how are you doing today outstanding how are you good good i had a question i have um my daughter who's about to turn 19 uh this month um she has two thousand two thousand dollars put away and she actually had an investment i have no idea how to tell her how to invest it

um so i was wondering if i can get guided or some advice on how to help with that because i don't want to steer in the wrong direction what's her name her name

beautiful beautiful beautiful okay so

considering her age she's 19.

our advice usually for young people around this age is it's going to sound cheesy but it's just true the best investment is in themselves and so i think at a young age depending upon what's her education like is she gonna go to a four-year school is she going to university or is she going to the workforce she's not sure yet what she wants to do if she wants to go to school

if she wants to go to straight school she got really um um that's what i'm looking for she basically got when coveted hit it really rocked her she was supposed to graduate she wasn't able to walk her right yeah yeah so she's kind of like in a funk so

to speak right now yeah for sure um you know she's working um doing housekeeping um with her

uh mother's boyfriend and the two thousand dollars that she has she actually got it from uh that pandemic money that california was offering and so she hasn't touched it she said i don't want to touch it i don't know what to do with it but i know i want to invest it yeah so um right now you know schools are really going to be opening back up

so she doesn't know if she's going to be going to college or trade school just work full-time that's great well well i'll tell you my advice would be if she called me today i would say two grand

at her age and with the her seasons of

life changing so much right now that she doesn't really have a firm plan the best thing is just to keep it with cash and a really boring savings account or a money market account right now um because number one she may need that money if she chooses to go to school to help her with tuition she may need that money if she wants to go into the workforce

and get an apartment and start i mean two grand in the grand scheme of things right can can be a pretty good boost for that 19 year old so because when i when i think about investing investing for me is long term which means five years or more

and while it's great mathematically to start as young as possible again having that cash available during all these random transitions that she's going to be occurring in the next probably five years of her life having some cash to spare is a real is a huge blessing i mean that's huge so i would relay to her hey i wouldn't put it in the market right now even though what you're thinking about is so good like the fact she's even thinking about investing at 19 props to her you have a very smart daughter i was not but i yeah so yeah she's way different than dad for sure that's great and i think that's awesome and i would and encourage that in her like that she's so smart that's so good but i would have it available for me at 19 to use during this transition period and then once she's out of school or if she goes to trade school or she goes right into the workforce and she has a little bit of a steady um steady stream of a season of life that she sees and she says okay now i'm gonna work to see if i can use this if she has any debt to pay it off or to keep it for a fully funded emergency fund and then look into retirement so even though it's great to start early mathematically speaking it's much better to have cash available at 19.

hey i just have a couple of i guess a multi-part question all right go for it what's up we we're in are just coming out of baby step two uh where credit cards are paid off cars

we're right at the should have those paid off at the end of this month congratulations brother and then the only thing appreciate it the only thing left is our mortgage that's

first part second part is we own our

own business um and we do have a

business loan and we use credit cards at the business i mean i know even though we pay them off we we're looking at dropping those and just going like dave says going with the debit cards um but i i'm trying to figure out how to

move forward if we stuck to what we're doing now we could probably have our home paid off by the end of this year but i don't know if i should just go into the 15 or do them all simultaneous

i guess as far as retirement goes how much is your business loan

probably close to about 80 000. 80 000.

how much how much you have left on your mortgage about a 137. okay

well technically with business debt i mean it is still your debt right your name's on it you're responsible for it and that's the conversation me and my wife are happy totally so i yeah that's right so i would go ahead and pay off the business loan um okay because you said you'll be able to pay off your mortgage this year which means you're going to have 80 grand

this year to pay off that business loan so i would go ahead and relieve myself of that and then start looking at retirement like you said you're 15 um past that and then just kind of chip away at the house um but that's that's the order i would do because the hard thing with business debt again i feel like people function with two sides of their brain almost

they can like split it down the middle and say well that's my business side and this is my personal but it's still you like you're you still owe the money yeah you still have it so that that's a conversation my wife yeah it's a great and it's a great conversation it's personal i mean it i mean it's still guaranteed by me right exactly exactly so that's right yeah we're still guaranteeing yet which which kind of stinks in a way

because at least if you're paying off your house it's like you've a paid for asset for you personally it feels so personal where the business again feels like this other part of your life but it is your life so i'd go ahead and pay off the business loan if i were you daniel and with that kind of that kind of income you're you're almost you're flipping it right

so two years from now you're gonna have a paid off house yeah you're gonna have a debt-free business right and then you can start building up the business emergency fund your homework fund that's fantastic that's right that's right have you ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research me too rachel probably has it i have

most people make choices based on feelings or opinions especially when they're buying a house people fall in love with the house as though it's a person right but when it comes to the real estate market feelings are not your friend facts are so check your facts find out

what you can actually afford research trending in home research what's trending in home prices talk to a reputable real estate person in your area never buy a house without the facts again text house to 33789 and get an agent who will

help you make smart decisions that's house to three three seven

eight nine listen rachel i used a

ramsey real estate elp

it was incredible and here's why i come from texas where you know they ask for 150 000 for a house and you

say i'll give you 110 and they're like pew

pew pew how about 140 right and we all shake hands in the middle in nashville that same house is 11 million dollars and they expect you to give a million dollars over the asking yeah 12 million actually and write me a letter and i want you to sing a song on our front porch and um we go ahead and invest in my child's retirement account i mean it's like bananas so i had the first few houses we put offers on come now i feel like an idiot and

my real estate agent i'm a little bit loud and demonstrative and i'm like

john my elp she called and said we need

to have a talk about um your expectations and about reality

and rachel her name's amanda she is incredible she let me have it in the most professional awesome way totally recalibrated my brain kept my

marriage intact i think and we ended up in an awesome house that took too long to buy because the national market's bananas but having that person who was trained and a person of integrity and who knew the market sideways and forwards and would say this is a bad offer we're not doing this right and would say hey this is a really good deal this is what you're looking for

let's go for it yeah yep so good that's the thing about i feel like when it comes to our life these parts of our lives that can be complicated and kind of intimidating if there's people that work in them day in and day out use it like like let them do it have a professional in your back pocket at all times it's awesome hey another hour in

the books thank you so much rachel thank you james and kelly and bobby bobertson this is the ramsay show

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this is james childs producer of the ramsay show did you know the ramsay show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcast

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm john delony joined here with my good friend and best-selling author rachel cruz and we are taking calls about your relationships and your money and your mental health and everything going on in your life give us a shout triple 825-5225 that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

let's jump to the phones let's talk to jennifer in tampa florida jennifer what's going on hi thank you so much for taking my call how are you guys we are outstanding thank you so much for giving us a shout so what's up so here's the back story my husband and i make 140 000 we are saving for retirement second baby

on the way have a college fund for our first child we have about twenty thousand dollars in the bank we have fifteen thousand dollar emergency fund baby step six um we have seventy five thousand dollars in a single stock and our question is we're wondering if we should invest in the stock market or if we should pay off our house we have 200 000 left on our mortgage

the only issue is we know that we're probably going to want to move within the next five to 10 years um not guaranteed but we know that we would like to move this isn't we don't believe in a forever house but we don't think this is our long-term house gotcha well y'all are crushing it congratulations we are we're very black we've been listening dave ramsey for a while that's

so great so you're wondering if you need to pay off the house yeah should we pay off the house should we save um cash for our next house

um what is the single stock we want we

don't have to move i'm sorry what's the single stock that the 75 000 is sitting in is it work related stock

is it is it stock available from your company or is it you just guys wouldn't bought a bunch of a stock it was um it was it was the company my husband used to work for okay not investing okay

and what other retirement do you guys have jennifer um we're doing 15 percent you are currently doing 15.

years um since we've had that

and we have our emergency fund we have twenty thousand dollars in the bank we also transferred another twenty thousand dollars that's in a separate account that we're putting that towards the house every month wow so should we just throw that all on the mortgage so i guess we have forty thousand dollars in the emergency emergency fund yeah that's great good for you guys yeah well obviously yeah yeah so from the emergency fund oh separate yes well obviously keep that emergency fund the 15 grand that you said i'm assuming that's your three to six months of expenses leaving that cash in the bank and then everything else combined that that forty thousand dollars in savings i would yeah that that single stock i wouldn't keep in especially since the company doesn't work for anymore and it's sort of a different story if you want to buy into the company you're in all of that but you guys are out of that so i would take that out and i mean you could you could hit that house real hard jennifer i mean you could you could pay off half the mortgage with just that cash um and how old are you guys we're 32.

32.

degree with zero debt and i'm

currently planning to start grad school in the fall in january i'm actually looking at

either english or humanities i'm looking at a career in academia so i'm trying to figure out where exactly i want to position myself gotcha so

in january i bought a car and

put half down financed the rest that's

my first and only debt so i currently have thirty thousand

dollars in savings to cash flow

grad school awesome and i'm wondering right now is it a smart idea to go ahead and just completely kill the car loan and pay that off before i start grad school or or should i kind of put that through how much do you have left on the car

uh about ten thousand ten grand okay

um yeah i would go ahead and tackle the car um because grad school you're gonna have obviously it's it's very expensive but you have time chunks of time right to to pay it as you go um

where if you get this car out of the way that debt all your income can go towards aka investing in yourself actually i mean putting that money towards grad school to continue afloat um which i believe you can do because like you went through undergrad which you're crazy weird right now yeah you you're without them how did you do that ashley people are wondering that because everyone graduates with student loans everyone does that's normal how'd you do it yeah yeah so i had really great

supportive parents so i lived with them

for the first bunch of school i actually went to the community college i got two associate degrees through there and worked through school um so i was paying as i went um i also was able to get a pretty good gpa so i got a scholarship to go to university and i actually was able to finish up university in only three semesters because i had done so much uh through

the community college and your degree is from the university that you wanted and you paid very fraction of it because of what you did ashley you're so smart so smart well done yeah well done pay that car off and before my mom is an english professor those jobs are hard to come by these days so before you go to grad school sit down with a person who works in that field

and get some real life

information about what that lifestyle is like what the what the money on that life is going to be and what the day to day is going to be it's usually different than people think it's the roi it's a hard life beautiful we need good english professors but it's tough

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triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsay show i'm john deloney joined here with rachel cruz ramsey personality taking your calls on life and money

find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get

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rachel today's question comes from herbert new york i'm a history professor at an expensive private university students from my department will most likely not go on to make a six figure income as most of them want to teach part of my

job is to recruit students into my my departments but i cannot in good conscience tell them to take out loans i know most of them do because they couldn't afford private tuition otherwise what do i say to students to get them to my department but at the same time being realistic realistic that my major is maybe not the best thing for their financial future

that's a hard one john what do you think oh man well that's hard

this particular person um

yeah the values of their institution the values of the place that that pays for their paycheck is not in line with the values that sit on his pillow every night and one of the questions i would have if herb was just hanging out here and we have a cup of coffee and he's asking me the same question it would go deeper than that for me because he's doing a good job of distancing himself from this issue and making it a moral and ethical issue for them not for him the reality is his business

is supported by something he didn't

believe in so it's not so much as it's it you can flip this around right he doesn't want students to go into debt and he's having a hard time encouraging them to take on debt to get a degree that he knows they're going to struggle to pay back yep but deeper than that where i want to charge challenge herb is you're taking a salary from a company

that doesn't align with your values and

he's got a hard question he's taking care of these students but he's not really getting to the root of the question yeah which is do i believe in where i

even work and we we've taken calls on this show like hey i wanted to work in finance my whole life my whole life and i got my first job out of college at a local bank and all i'm doing is selling loans right and i spent all this time getting out of debt and i don't think i can keep doing this right yeah and so i think everybody

everybody has to have that hard conversation does what put food on my table align

with my values yep and you don't always have to go

running for the hills right like i gotta quit today and i'm gonna sure sure sure but i do think that's a worthy conversation to have herb i'm gonna tell you i know a number of people i've had this exact conversation with a number of my friends across the united states some of them have said i've got to get out of work in higher ed i can't keep doing

this some have made a transition from this from a private you know expensive private school to a community college some of them have just said man this is what it is what it is right the students are grown-ups they can choose to make this decision on their own and we're going to keep blown ahead the value proposition is different from everybody but man herb you're not going to be able to sleep i'm telling

you right now based on that question yep what do you recommend to folks who are balancing yeah i don't i don't believe in where i work anymore because it's a complete it's a complete mind shift right yeah from what you saw was okay and normal to suddenly realizing in probably his own life oh wow i don't i hate debt i'm going to get out well and now i'm here assuring a new generation a generation right into

it knowing that they're going to get jobs that aren't going to even support them financially to pay off the debt like well and if you're any kind of professor who obviously herb's good at what he does just because of his this the the depth of this question you talk to students all day long and you hear what's on their heart mind and what's number one on their heart mind is i'm never gonna be able to pay

this back ever i'm never gonna be able to pay this back so this is probably a bigger question that you can answer but you worked kind of in the sector in life like you've for a long time yeah you've been a part of it so how do we and again it's a bigger conversation but

prop the next generation and say yes education is good and we need people in all these fields right like the last call we just took was about an english professor uh his wasn't it yeah about one to be an english professor yeah yes and all of that in the roi and yes uh going to school and grad school and all that and you mentioned yeah just make sure

you talk to someone that's been in that world so you know so like how do we keep all of that because we need that in our society like we need english professors we need people that are getting degrees in fields that are not supported financially do you know what i'm saying but the degree is so expensive like it's just it feels like a not a lost cause

but it's defeating it's it's sitting in rc because i'm like man you believe in all that stuff and you and you love the people in those institutions and they're great but it just feels like it's broken yeah i think that's what it comes down to is i am i am somebody who believes deeply

that we have let go

the arts we have let go english we have let go the ability to read and discern some of these problems we're having now writers have been writing on the stuff for hundreds if not thousands of years right but we don't teach history anymore we don't teach them these things anymore because it's all about roi what's the roi on this job we get a coding job so i think we lose something i really really do yeah and you can't charge 150 000 dollars

first for a job it's it's a better they're gonna make forty thousand dollars

i think it's both and i think everybody in this conversation has to put it on the table sure and i will say i i know a number of higher ed leaders that are trying to fix it from inside out i know a number of tech companies that are trying to solve it from the outside and we all got a great lesson this last year man just throwing everything online

and gonna solve it either that has been miserable and we also learned a lot how can you make online learning better because it could be cheaper but you're right it's a mess yeah right and we need some grown-ups to stop acting like kids and actually say we're gonna be a part of some of these solutions and there's some really bold higher ed leaders who are making some major changes

there are some bold tech folks who are weighing in so i think we're going to see some significant shifts and i hope hope hope for the sake of our kids it's not at the expense of reading in history and music but it's at the expense of man it's not a four-year vacation anymore yeah right that's right that was a moment that's what's wild is that the four-year institution college as what

we knew when we went probably like it is what it is it was affordable you could you know i mean all of it i mean and not that you can't still go to school debt free we just got a call from someone that did it you can figure it out you can do it yeah but it's uh it has shifted and bring in 2020 when most of

the universities were closed and it was online yeah it's just i mean it's it's a shifting we don't have a solution

if eight if however many millions of eighteen-year-olds just hit the job market tomorrow in 1982 we can't absorb that either right so it's not as simple as close all the col that's a bad decision sure sure and so yeah it's gonna take some leadership which is the key here and some people being really honest about what tomorrow's gonna look like and some people not getting what they want et cetera et cetera

and that brings us back to her you're gonna have to have a hard conversation with the mirror my brother and not only about these students you're gonna have to have a hard conversation about where it does your income come from do you align with the values of where you where you draw a paycheck from and can you do what your job asks you to do and if your job is asking

you to do something that violates your core value system you got to find the job man yeah you got to and that's not higher just higher education that is that's absolutely every job you're listening yep that's it or you work at a gas station and you get a new manager that asks you to do stuff right it's like it's everywhere you got

to have those core set of values and say this is where my line is yes right yes which is part of knowing yourself and that's a lot of the stuff you talk about you got to know yourself is the self-awareness of that i mean like it's it's huge understanding why you do the things you do that's right and and and where you co yeah you talk about

it too i think all of us distilled down to this idea of you got to be intentional you got to be intentional that's right all right russ let's uh russell let's go to russell i'm just going to say russell about eight times here russell in virginia beach what's up russell how are we doing hey how are y'all today i appreciate you taking my call oh hey brother listen

i messed up the clock here hang on here and we're gonna roll you over and we'll get you right after this break i should have just kept talking for a second i tried to i tried to extend this a little bit john i'm not going to lie well i talk about self-awareness should we talk about self-awareness we'll get there we'll come to you soon we'll be right back russell

this is the ramsay show

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825-5225 we're taking your calls on life

and money i'm john delonie joined by rachel cruz we're going back to russell in virginia beach russell what's going on brother

russell are you there my man yeah i'm here one of the key things about uh answering the phone is actually picking it up so sorry about that so what's up man we're definitely here hey i'm seeking some advice today go for them i'm quickly approaching about 35 years of service in the navy oh thank you congratulations man yeah thanks i appreciate that it's been an awesome experience so uh recently bought

a home when we transferred back to virginia um the home was about a half million bucks and uh my wife and i have no credit card

or car loans the home is really it and

so we've done pretty well we've got about 400 in mutual funds uh which we continue to invest in we've got another roughly 230 between roth ira and off psp

and continue to contribute to that we've got about 115 in cash so my question is

is it a smart move knowing that i'm

going into retirement at least from the military and to take a large chunk of money say 300 000 out of my mutual funds to put on the house which would allow me to pay the house off by like 20 29.

if you pulled out the three how much do you owe on the house total today 4.90 4.90 okay now all the mutual funds

you just rattled off a lot of them were roth so are they all retirement specific mutual funds no no no the the 400 of it is just mutual funds oh

it's just a mutual fund okay so no penalties if you cash that out there's no retirement penalties there no yes just tax right yep yep um yeah i mean russell if i were you

if you if you wanted to take a chunk and throw it at the house because your other retirement i mean you have some other retirement the ones you you just named my yeah my first year out of service uh my retirement will be eighty thousand take them okay yes

i i would if i were you um again i would

not take out for those listening i would not cash out retirement in order to pay off that yeah no i wasn't planning on catching that yeah exactly but the mutual fund i mean you have 400 in it yeah you could take a chunk of it and throw it at the house because a goal um obviously is to pay off the home

and to be able to you'll be getting that 80 grand from your service and you'll you have these other these other vehicles for retirement which you can live off of as well so having a paid for close to paid for paid for home in that big time is is

huge so russell i'm i'm uh curious

30 years in the service

and now you think yeah you're transitioning out to become a civilian what are you gonna do

that's the million-dollar question i have some ideas i have a side hustle i breed snakes uh

so that's well that's what my little brother does my brother does that too yep i've been doing it for about 20 years okay what kind of snakes does it make a lot of money but it brings in about 20 a year yeah wow that's a pretty good gig

do you use real live mice or frozen ones

there you go that's a true breeder right there we could really get off the rails on this conversation russell i like you we could we could but yeah so

go ahead go ahead i was gonna say i i i'm a hundred percent with rachel i love the idea of you having that great military pension which you've earned every penny of and having a paid for house or really close to paid for house and um man getting this jet set off whatever the rest of your life's gonna be having the greatest reptile sale

online salesman in the country man russell the snake man i love it all right let's go to maggie in san diego maggie what's going on

uh hi thank you for taking my call um i'm new to the program so i'm just starting off in the baby steps i'm on number two to our band of

weirdos maggie we're glad that you're here thank you thank you um so i moved in with my aunt to be her full-time caregiver um and three years ago she put my name on her unless we did a grant bead but now i'm debating if i should sell my house since those prices are skyrocketing right now in order to pay off her house as well as pay off the rest of my debt because if i

keep the house that my house i could use it as an investment

you know later on down the line and have that as a secure monthly income but if i sell it off now

that's like a quick way to kind of get ahead sure

maggie how much debt do you have that you want to pay off um the only that i have is my car payments for my kids and that's about 28 000. 28 000 car payments for your

kids why aren't they paying their own car payment uh well i i did make some prompts to my kids before they went off to college that i'd buy them a car so they wouldn't have to worry about transportation so uh you know i'm still making the payments on them all right that's another phone call that's another phone call um maggie so you have those car payments 28 grand and that's it except for your aunt's home that you are on now on the deed of and how much is the home

her house is there's probably about a hundred and thirty thousand left on her house on

my house um that i'm not even living in right now my husband is there pretty much by himself um is about two hundred and eighty thousand left that we owe that two 280 and how much how much is it worth how much equity would you get from it it's worth about 600 000.

oh wow okay and how much is your aunt's house worth probably about 550 something like that

500 okay and so your husband is in your home yeah

so does he want to move in with your aunt is he is he on board with this well he doesn't want to but he's going to help you well played well played that sounds like i should probably have a breakfast together and talk about this uh what what is that what's the plan here for are are you is your is your aunt terminal are you planning on taking over

the home after she can have to move to a care at some point to skilled nursing or something we're going to take care of her here because i'm already i am a nurse so she'll get the best care for me so is there any other family drama that doesn't like this that are sitting you mean notes about it or is everybody happy that hey you take the house

you take ant and we're going to move on yes sir

everyone's okay with i mean they know i'm the closest one too that's why she couldn't she did a grant b when her husband died so we wouldn't have a problem with it okay it's been i i i don't i

my my hesitation maggie is you putting your money on a home that you're that the deed is split so it's not your entire home it is her home so that feels a little messy to me i would rather it be her home or your home that you take over

and you say i'm gonna just that you're you know aunt you're sick you don't need the burden of this i'm gonna just buy it from you and there'd be a clean line there so that's one conversation i would probably have maggie this feels a little bit convoluted when with both of you on the deed i don't really care for that um but also yeah if you're not living in

the house and you guys are going to be living with your aunt for the foreseeable future you don't need your other home um but you also but also the car payments are 28 000 which is a lot but you could work and pay that off keep the home rent it out do something with it because it has great equity so it's basically do you want to mess with the home do you not because if you had if you had 150

000 in student loan debt this probably would be a different conversation but the 28 000 you probably could put the pedal to the metal and get it paid off quick and still have your home if you wanted to keep it or you could say i don't even it's not even worth the trouble messing with renters any of that we're gonna just cash out get the equity out uh pay off that and have a big chunk of change in the bank which which feels good to me as well what's the status of your marriage

well that's a whole other conversation sir that okay um we we're like i said i just started with the baby because we've been coming for 21 years we've never mixed our finances ever [Music] but that's something that we that i do want to certainly now yeah you know i just felt like it was a

waste to you know have that second house i totally get that it's not uncommon that couples who have been in your situation they've been had parallel lives they've been married for a long time they've had a great relationship but they haven't been fully together then one of them goes to be a primary caregiver for somebody else and the whole thing comes unglued so i want you to go get with your husband

and y'all have some hard conversations about what the next 20 years are going to look like you got a guy's got to do this together otherwise you're going to end up um all by yourself and i don't want that for either okay we thinking about your marriage hang in there maggie this is the ramsay

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our scripture of the day comes from daniel 10 14 and came to make you understand what it is to happen to your people in the latter days for the vision is four days yet to come never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it the time will pass away earl nightingale

well that's kind of deep hold on let's hear that again never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it the time will pass anyway yeah so

it's going to pass anyway you might as well put it toward a dream a fun there's a couple that my wife knows back in texas and they were talking about they were like 35 and they were chit-chatting with one another and they were both like man we both wanted to go to med school and be doctors and they went and talked

to somebody and the person said well here's the deal you're gonna be 42

anyway the question you are asking is do we go to med school or not it's when you're 42 do you want to be doctors or not yeah and it's going to happen that way so why not right what is the obsession with this so i love that quote man figure it out both my parents have made major shifts later in life and it's just adds a whole new universe i think that's a fun story when i hear people that yeah they get to their 50s or 60s

like you know what i'm gonna and they just whatever it is yeah and you're like man they just started this whole new life still haven't lost it's almost how you see it right but it's not the end no you're just i just wanna i just wanna slide in the end with no tread left on the tire yeah that's right that's right all right let's go to bethany in scranton pennsylvania home of

the office how are we doing bethany i'm good how are you good are you an office fan or do you get beat up with that all the time hey my husband turned me into an office band well you married well

thank you you married well so what's up how can we help thank you um i have a quick question i'm a stay-at-home mom and my husband and i have been on babysit baby steps excuse me four ish

um for a while we're just not quite at the 15 and i was just wondering if you would ever recommend um

lowering that 15 just so that we can have some movement in baby steps five and six how old are

you guys bethany i am 33 we're both 33 okay

and how much do you guys make my

husband makes a little under 50 000 a year okay and you're a stay at home mom you said um yes so the

the mathematical reason for the 15 is that it will guarantee that you will get to retirements with dignity that you won't have the money to be able to live your dreams and all of that um and so that 15

we we stick pretty hard on just to ensure that that's going to happen um but you guys for the income and for

your house specifically um because your

kid's college you're not a bad parent if you don't pay for your kids college like we've talked on here that you can you can send them to school they can do community college for for a few years transfer to a state school like they can have a great and honestly by the time your kids are in college as we've been talking who knows what that world is going to look like

so if you don't have the cash to be able to invest right now in your kids college you're not a bad parent but looking ahead at the house uh how much do you guys owe on the house um i think around 86 186 okay

yeah so i would if i were you bethany i would stick with that 15 for a little for a little bit longer and

then just i would i would almost um start because of your income and

everything start chipping away a little bit at the house if you have any to throw towards an esa or something it would be very helpful for your kids i mean that's in the order of the baby steps for sure um but it's just gonna be a little bit at a time like it may not just be this this huge you know you it's not this huge shovel that

you have that you're throwing all this money at and all that right i mean like you guys are having to be very very diligent to do it all that is what i that was my question rachel uh bethany what's your husband do my husband's a pastor he's a pastor there awesome is there a potential for him to pick up some additional income on the side for a few years to knock that house out um

he could if if someone is going to be driven in our house to do it it would probably be naped okay so we're just not that he's not

driven but he's carrying a lot of hats um just he's the only pastor on staff um and which means he's the pastor and

plumber and yard guy and hospital chaplain

what's y'alls um take home pay at bethany a month how much y'all make a month a month just shy of 4

000 i think and how much is that mortgage payment all right so around 650 650 okay

yeah that's not not terrible at all

yeah that percentage yeah yeah

absolutely man y'all are really trying to do it you're doing it um there's been seasons of my life when they've been just that which are seasons right which are we can continue to you know somebody stay home we're gonna keep in this job and we can do it for this season for the next two years or three years or five years and then there becomes the math problem right

we either have to get to a point where we can pay this off or we have to get to a point where we can reach that retirement goal right otherwise yeah you're going to continue you're going to find yourself 43 and 53 you mean a very similar boat right and you're not going to be any further towards any of these goals at all right and that's a hard place to be good for

you and your family though for having your values and knowing who you are and what you want to be about and then you're going to make it happen absolutely it's it's a little bit of that contentment issue too bethany you know because unless something changes with his salary as a pastor or something drastic i mean um yeah the numbers are and and i think you know god's called

you to this place if that's what you you know you guys are in it for a reason um i believe in that discernment in your life and your husband's life that you guys have chosen this because you know you're called to it and so it is it's just gonna there's gonna be a level of contentment um that you're probably gonna have to find as as a as a stay-at-home mom too um

i can just speak as a wife right like i mean you're you're on instagram and facebook and see it all and so there's just a level of saying hey god has us here for a reason and it's not gonna be big and flashy we're not gonna pay off the house in two years i mean that's not gonna be the story but that's okay but that's okay but

you guys are staying diligent being smart with the money that you do have and so you guys are doing great as somebody who um we've had this in our

home you've had to make decisions like am i going to take this speaking gig for this much money oh sure i'm going to stay at home oh 100 yeah and there's a real true cost to yep my values are here right

whatever they may be right and it's getting to that how do you help somebody get to that contentment because i struggle with that it's hard i made this choice but living with what that choice means it can be hard yes very much so i mean i i feel like gratitude is one of the first places to start and i know it's kind of like the cheesy answer

but it's true but it's uh christine kane i love what she says she says that gratitude is not thankful for what he's given us it's to be thankful for what he's entrusted to us so everyone's life looks different of what's what i believe in a spiritual sense right god has entrusted to you and what you have and so being grateful for that um i think a level of

it is humility and giving and serving and knowing that the world's not all about you yeah and that you looking up to say okay what what can i do to serve and help people in bethany gill's entire life is that your one of service and it's and it's an amazing calling um and so there's a lot of that and then i think there's like a level of maturity too yeah emotional

and spiritual maturity right to be able to kind of say okay we're here it's not always fun i'm choosing to stay at home i really want to go out to eat tonight right but we made this choice that's right and not beating yourself up when you have those secondary thoughts right those why can't we just go to florida like everybody else because we chose this and you can have both

and yes yes that's right and it's hard i remember talking i had two sets of friends and two were lawyers here in nashville

and just working insane hours i mean like kids were in daycare she had mom guilt it was terrible but they are doing it because they said at the end of it or like we'll get to a point where we don't have to work these hours but we're going to make a big income so that we can enjoy take our kids on vacation we want them to have experiences whatever

it is so they valued that right or wrong people probably have opinions but that is what they chose where i had another friend four kids he's a teacher yeah history teacher and coach she's she stays at home yep so talk about a tight budget they just figured out and they said yeah we know we can't do all these things but this is what we're choosing and that's

the beautiful thing about all of this there's a level of choice right that we have of what you value when you live out of those values that's where the joy and contentment can come back to contentment right chasing it someone else's that doesn't work for you well that's another show on the books i want to thank james childs and kelly daniel for their

incredible engineering work and call screening action thanks to my good friend rachel cruz this has been the ramsay show

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit daveramsey.com show and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell your story

you

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## 201. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 3, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:30:17 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtube and podcast show the

table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is number one national best-selling author of business boutique has some amazing things going on host of the christy wright show um and killing the game especially around ladies and uh starting a business like

christy what's up hey this is gonna be fun you and i get feisty i'm pretty excited about this oh this is gonna be so good so this is like we haven't done this this year have we no no you all get ready fast in your seatbelts two people who who love each other who also love to talk so uh we have two speeds a sleeve or a hundred miles an hour there's no in between

there is no in between with us you know we're going to talk real fast we're going to get straight to the question uh and we're going to be very honest you know and so if you have a question about your life about your money if you want to start a business um there's this is a one woman appreciation month or woman acknowledgement month or something like that um

and so we have a woman uh who really

loves helping ladies accomplish their goals their dreams starting businesses and so i want you to give us a call christy wright is the i say she's the queen really she's the king but she's a woman so she's the queen in this space and so give us a call at 825-5225

that's triple eight eight two five five two two five uh you can find us both on social media if you want to send us a question at anthony o'neil for myself and at christie is it right yes i thought so christy b wright sent us your questions and we would love to have a conversation with you uh let's get straight to the phone let's do it i love

it so let's go out to my home state north carolina raleigh north carolina uh good afternoon rory how can christina help me hey guys how are you guys doing doing all right hey so i had a quick question uh i'm currently 18 years old i just moved out of my parents house on monday okay uh um i'm in school part-time at a

community college and i i was just offered an internship with amazon it's going to be 15 15 months it'll be

paid and i'm cash flowing college i'm paying for everything and i was just wondering where i should get started with the baby steps oh man rory this is good now uh what community college are you going to there in raleigh uh it's wake tech lake technical community college absolutely yeah i know i know all about wake tech man i was going to go to a fayetteville tech uh in fayetteville north carolina about an hour

and a half away from there so i know exactly where you're going how much is amazon paying you man for these uh next 18 months uh it's gonna be

twenty dollars an hour uh 40 hours a week what's the point of some money brother that's what i'm talking about okay any any debt do you have right now do you have any credit cards uh no sir i'm completely debt free it's it's a uh it's a robotic internship they just built a warehouse here and i'm studying mechatronics so cool yeah that's awesome

i love it i love it well you know chrissy i think the very first thing rory should do is really just skip over baby step two um and really just start saving your three to six months rory you're a young man you just moved out on your own and so what i want you to do is i want you to sit down and get on an every dollar budget okay rory what you're going to do is you're going to list all of your income which is going to be your amazon check um if you're driving for uber eats if you're doing anything extra i want you to list all your income then i want you to list all your expenses so this is going to be you know your rent this is going to be you know if you have an iphone or android phone any apps you're paying for um you're a young man so i'm pretty sure you're single so if you out dating you need to have a line item for dating okay um so you got to get creative list all your expenses i don't know why your young people out here laughing at me i know that's real i see y'all laughing at me uh but you know you got to put everything on there so you can have control over your money that's the key thing that i really want you to understand rory you're gonna start with baby step number three and baby set number three is gonna be three to six months of your living expenses okay and you're gonna do that by getting on an every dollar budget and that's the first place where i would say start but the key thing is man once you get that three to six months rory if you can do that by the end of this year and start investing next year you'll be 19.

if you can start investing 15 percent of your income rory but before you turn 50 you're going to be a multi-millionaire just by doing the bare basics so i mean

i i love it i mean here's the cool thing rory the fact that you're asking this question at 18 you gonna be okay like

most 18 year olds are not asking this question not calling the ramsey show and not cash flowing their college you are doing awesome you're asking the right questions you're already set up for success the one caution i would give you if you take this internship which sounds like an awesome opportunity you're about to have some money yes and when you got some money you know what it does it wants to burn a hole in your pocket because you're like oh i'm living good i got all this money it feels like so much and just like anthony's telling you don't lose focus of your goals and your plan just because you got a little cash in your pocket it'll be very tempting to overspend that so just be aware of that stick to your plan and you're going to be just fine that's awesome man listen hearing those calls what so cool yeah i was not asking that question at 18.

i was like do i get another t-shirt for that credit card where do i sign sign me right on up yeah i had to pay for my mistakes in my 20s i'm thinking about t-shirts free pizza

the ladies it's free money y'all no it's

not no it's not no it's really not man so rory man take my hats off to you thank you so much for calling in you are a true example of what most 18 year olds what most young people need to be doing is thinking about their future and so thank you for asking that question and make sure to check out with me um over on my show man i'm really gearing my show towards that younger audience

so come over there to the table with your boy anthony o'neil youtube podcast and i'm gonna show you how to keep the bag um and really build some more wealth man i love it let's keep the conversation going uh triple eight eight two five five two two five ramsey personalities anthony o'neil and christy wright are in the building today um we're looking forward to having a good show with

you uh we're gonna go out to richmond virginia and have a conversation with matthew uh good afternoon matthew uh real quickly what's your question hi there uh thanks for taking my call yeah um so so the question is my wife and i have saved up a bit of money money over the last few years we now have enough for our first house the problem is we don't know

if we should actually buy our first house buy an investment property or hold off until we figure out where we

go next with uh with our family okay just moved out of new york city the plan is to go to um the west coast

closer to family but you know all the markets and everything going on but just we don't know what the next move is and yeah maybe you can help us out a little bit yeah so are you do you plan on moving within the next three years uh within the next three months oh yeah so then we're not buying nothing yeah yeah so here's the thing um i don't want

you to buy anything until you know you're going to be in this city for at least three to five years bare minimum is three the ideal situation is five um but if you're moving within the next three months no don't don't buy anything because you don't want to be a long-distance landlord because you won't be able to watch it and really take care of it and then for me personally i'm going to buy a house actually

and live in a house before i go out and get some rental property so put your family into a good home then start talking about how to generate some more income that's good i like it that's good it's good one yo it's chrissy right anthony o'neill right here on the ramsay show and we'll be right back

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find healthcare coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at ch chministries.org we

absolutely believe in it

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welcome back to the ramsey show i'm christy wright author of business boutique co-hosting with fellow ramsey personality anthony o'neil and anthony i'm so excited because we get to have a conversation with someone that i absolutely love jamie kern lima is the founder of

it cosmetics who recently sold to l'oreal for a billion dollars so just a small accomplishment in her life and she has a new book called believe it how to go from underestimated to unstoppable jamie how are you christy i'm so good

thank you so much for having me here how fun is this that i get to talk to you on the ramsay show with anthony we were just talking about you off air and how amazing you are jamie i know so much of your story i had the honor of having you speak at business boutique last year i've had you on the christy wright show but for anyone listening that isn't familiar with you would you just tell us a little bit about your story and your new book believe it yeah

you know i'm probably most well known for going from denny's waitress to uh creating a dream

in my living room and going after it and and building that to it cosmetics which is now one of the largest uh luxury makeup companies in the country and then selling it to l'oreal but uh the reason i wrote believe it christy is um you know every single day i hear from so many people saying oh congrats on you know your fairy tale but i'm struggling or i'm getting rejected or my dream's not getting off

the ground and i realize if we don't ever share like the real stories behind the stories um then everyone feels alone in their own setbacks and gets tempted to give up and everything else so believe it it's really a book about overcoming self-doubt um what to do when

when you're not getting the kind of traction or or or success that you're hoping for when people like look you in the eye and tell you you're not enough what do you do in those situations um my real story is you know three years of having everyone say no uh with it cosmetics and uh eventually

turning those nose into yeses but it was a really long road um really filled with a lot of self-doubt and it's really it's really how do you go from not believing in yourself to believing in yourself and i think it's not just my story it's a story of so many people out there right now especially coming out of a hard season right up 14 months and a lot of people have been dimming their own light

and this is a book that hopefully will help everyone ignite their light again and learn to believe in themselves and the possibility of their own dream i love that i love your story because one of the things that's really cool about this book anthony is she has so many stories that you would never know if she didn't tell it and jamie you shared some of these stories on stage at business boutique

but i think that people would easily look at someone like you and think well she just she's an overnight success she just magically appeared on the mountaintop she's so lucky all these extra things and you tell story after story after story in this book of how you were looked in the face and told no how you had to overcome adversity overcome setbacks from stories at qvc to trade shows where you're literally stalking people down

the aisles trying to get to the right person to tell your story but you have this even through all these stories and setbacks you have a tenacity you have a won't take no for an answer attitude and i think that that is something so special about you would you tell us like where does that come from and how can people that don't have that naturally how can

they do that too that that may not come as as naturally to to be such a go-getter like that yeah i think you know everyone listening to the three of us right now i feel like all of us know inside of god's like place a dream

on our heart or maybe there's something in us that you know we we have that inkling where we know we need to create or or or or launch the business or maybe we're in the wrong job or the wrong relationship we all kind of have those feelings and you know i did a lot of things wrong that i talked about in the book but but the biggest theme through

the whole book really and the things that i did right was when i had that feeling that knowing that internal knowing um i made a decision to trust it and and

i think that uh i think that so many people know if

they're kind of made for more or they're you know have more to give or create or they need to start painting again or whatever it might be but they still doubt themselves anyways and this book is really about how do you break through that that barrier of self-doubt and step into really the person you're born to be you know and and yeah i was super super hard working and super ambitious but i think really this is what i believe i believe

and that's why i love that you guys share so many people's stories and so many people that had success stories through everything that you've done it uh with with the ramsey companies because when we see other people's stories and we learn how they got through it that's when we like pull those stories in we can lean on them ourselves um so yeah my book is really about of course working hard

and not giving up and those kind of things but really it's about how do you learn how to believe in yourself and trust yourself like hear your own knowing and make the decisions to trust it because i think that's that's the ultimate success um for all of us in our lives so james let me ask you this question this is anthony man good to meet you i i've i've seen

you on uh christy stage and i'm like man she's amazing and i have a question we have a lot of people who sometimes uh do not believe in themselves they they doubt their own selves they're scared to experience some type of failure to go to the next next level

uh what was one thing that you had to get over and what what could you say to inspire someone uh to say you know what hey start believing in yourselves start pushing yourself forward what would you say to that individual listening right now yeah the first thing i'll say is like i've now anthony had the blessing of meeting so many inspiring people that i never could have imagined meeting

the first thing i've learned is they all still struggle with self-doubt so the first thing i'd say is you're not alone anyone listening right now feels like oh i just don't believe in myself you're not alone and i think that's really important to know but also one tool i would say is really

starting to take inventory of who you let speak into your life about your own dreams a lot of us i talk in my book believe it about how to do this in terms of like if you imagine you have your own microphone we all have our own microphone and sometimes we hand our microphone over to somebody who after we share our hopes or our dreams or our situation with

we end up like you know self-doubt gets bigger right and sometimes it's our partner sometimes it's our family our friends people who love us but when we share our dreams or our hopes with them they kind of see them through the lens of their own fear or their own self-doubt and so one thing i talk about in this journey of building belief is learning how to like take your microphone back from some people in your life

you can love them but talk to them about you know what's going on with the weather and how it's for dinner but you know really curating the people around you and people listening to your radio show right now that's a way for people to speak into people about things that they want to do whether it's get out of debt or go after their dream right curating who

you hand your microphone to who you take it back from super important a lot of times we you know let everyone else's opinion get so loud that we that we and our own self doubt build that we don't even hear our own truth anymore so

that's one of many things to do on the

journey that i had to learn how to do because anthony i was told no so many times i was told no one will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight is what one investor said when they passed on investing i was told you know i mean on and on and on and i had to learn to turn down the volume on that before it took root in me and like turn up the volume on my own knowing and and

and people that spoke positivity in my life wow i love that because it's so practical and and something anybody can do now jamie before we go i want to ask you one more question because we talked about this on stage at business boutique you've shared this story on the christy wright show and i know anthony's going to love it so you are the epitome of success and

you have a story about how you were on the forbes richest wealth you know self-made women list and you didn't want to be on it and after three years of them putting you on it anyway you learned something would you just real quick before we go tell us something you learned about that experience because i think it is such a great lesson for men and women as

we um want to chase our version of success yeah you know i did not when i got that first phone call because listen i i've been a denny's waitress i have been so scrappy and worked so hard my whole life and when we eventually sold our company to l'oreal they announced the purchase price it was all over the wall street journal everywhere so all of a sudden

i find myself on the on the forbes list and and the name of the list was forbes richest self-made women and i was mortified i was embarrassed by it i

didn't want it to be shared and this was this went on for three years until i had this huge epiphany where i was like wait a minute

oh my gosh jamie i am so grateful for your story thank you for sharing with us thank you for being a light i love how you are just inspiring people to believe in themselves this is

the ramsay show

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsay show and ramsey personalities chrissy wright and myself anthony o'neil are with you on during this hour and on the last segment man we had the opportunity chrissy to interview one of your friends uh jamie who who's clearly a success story oh my gosh i'm like well i kind of want to get her on my show i'm i

she's amazing and what's so cool about her story from starting this makeup company in her living room to now having a billion dollar company that sold to l'oreal she just has this humble spirit and she really wants people to believe in themselves one of the things she didn't mention when we talked to she's donating all the proceeds from the book she donated her time to be at business boutique like she's just such a generous giving person

i could have talked to her all day um but but i wanted you guys to know you can get her book believe it jamiekernlima.com or

believe it dot com and i know she has an action plan and that kind of thing i did want to tell you anthony one story that we didn't get to wrap up because you'll find this fascinating so when jamie was uh called to be interviewed to be on the forbes richest women list she didn't want to be on it they were like we're going to we're going to publish how much

you make and we're going to publish and she's like no no no no no like i don't want to be on it this makes me feel uncomfortable they said well we the the records are public we're going to put you on it like it or not and they did so they published about her year number two same thing publisher she's like oh i feel so weird people know how much my business is worth how much

you know i'm wearing all this stuff year two they put her on there without her having a quote year three i think it was you're three or four they call her again to get a quote and so by year three or four she's like

all right i think i'll i think i'll give a quote like i think i'll actually like maybe this could be a light for people to help them see if i can do it uh you know they can do it too and so she decided to well she's talking to the interviewer the journalist and and she said i'm sorry it just makes me really uncomfortable and the journalist said all

the women do it and she said what she said all the women don't want to be on the list she said what's funny is all the women don't want to be on the list and they feel very uncomfortable with how much they make and that anybody's going to know it but every single man argues that they should be higher on the list about why they should be jockeying for a higher position

i was like man women can learn something from this you don't need to be ashamed of your success your success can be a light for other people to go behind you so that's the story i was trying to get to and we ran out of time but she's amazing you can get the book believe it and the action plan at believeit.com it's just incredible uh how inspirational her story is what a light

she is and i like how you just came for the brothers on that one

ladies want to be humble guys we want to be boastful guys sit down no women need to stand up we got we both got something to learn we both got something to learn from that don't be ashamed of what god's doing in your life absolutely you don't need to apologize for that so i thought that was cool and that's a good one and for the guys and whatever god is doing for your life don't exaggerate

it you know yeah well you know one of the things i see women and this is true with business boutique but anything we have all this is this is our posture anthony's like oh this little thing oh just this little

i just got this little side business oh it's nothing and i'm like you're diminishing not only your own sense of self-confidence but you're downplaying playing the kindness and truth in someone's compliments you're you're apologizing for god's gifts in your life like this is not humility this is just not true and so i think there's the confidence and humility are not mutually exclusive you can be confidently humble

and you know humbly confident and and you can hold your life with open hands so anyway i just love her example because she is gracious and humble and insanely successful and yes you can be both and honestly uh all jokes aside we need to hear messages like hers that's right you know to go from there to now a billionaire a wealthy woman um i mean we need that yeah

and keep your character intact along the way it's she's so impressive absolutely absolutely well let's get back to the phone uh christy triple eight eight two five five two two five we're having a conversation about your life your money you wanna start a business the lady is in the building if you are a woman and you need encouragement in whatever area of your life spiritually mentally emotionally hey christy wright is in

the building and for all y'all young people you want to get this bag or you want to make some money for the older people generation or give

us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five and let's go out to new york and have a conversation with matt matt good afternoon how can chrissy and i help uh good afternoon a

pleasure to talk to you guys uh so i'm about to graduate from college uh i have a job with secured with a seventy thousand dollar salary okay and i'm gonna graduate with uh thirty thousand dollars with that okay so i already have eight thousand dollars saved up and i wanna like attack this debt but uh the issue is my my car that i currently use that i'm going to have to use for my job uh it's uh kind of 20 years old and uh

i suspect it's about to die in the next year or so so how do i like balance between like making sure i have enough cash on hand to like get a new car or a new used car

and uh attacking out of debt all right so you have eight thousand dollars in a savings right right okay cool and you're saying you think the car is going to die in a year right

yeah there's nothing like like specifically wrong with it but there's things that have been going wrong with it uh recently and uh yeah yeah i'm just concerned about it's a longevity yeah i'll get you you ain't concerned about the car because i think i think you're concerned because you got the money you want to go buy a newer car um if nothing is going wrong with the car right now this is what i want you to do i want you to take 7 000 of that and i want you to put it towards your 30 000 of debt right now your student loans then what i want you to do if you start seeing issues with your car okay and it starts starts to have some issues i mean some serious issues too matt i'm not talking about you know you think you heard something so now you need a car now like no it's not working it's broke it's not drivable then i have no problem with you pausing paying off this thirty thousand dollars but how old are you right now matt uh i'm 21.

gazelle focused get intense get a purpose get driven um you can pay off the debt this

year you're making 70 000 on there how do you do something on the side to generate another 20 000 this year so if you can pay off your debt this year then next year you can focus on saving up cash to go buy you a real nice quality used car so what i'm going to say for you right now is don't worry about purchasing a new car right now

because you said nothing's wrong with the car right now great i would take it to the shop maybe get it tuned up a little bit you can take some of your eight thousand dollars to do that and get a good fresh get a good oil change maybe get some good new tires on there um then from there put the rest onto your debt and just just attack

the debt then next year let's go ahead and start the process of saving yeah my my advice is so similar to a call we had a little bit earlier anthony that i would say you're about to get this job where you're making 75 000 a year you need to pretend like you're not yes you need to pretend like you're making 25 000 a year and because if not it's gonna be oh my gosh

this new big exciting amount of money oh i can live a little more comfortably i can slow down on my debt snowball or my student loans or like anthony said need this car and there is some you do need a car at some point and so that's why you need to stay serious live on way less than you make have that margin to take all that extra towards your student loan towards

the car whenever you need it and then after that you can get a little bit more comfortable after you get your savings up and all that kind of stuff but i just don't want you to take your foot off the gas because you've got a lot more money than you're used to having which will be easy to do so keep that intensity even though you're making more money now absolutely matt

and man and listen man you're doing things right yeah you're 21 years old making about 70 75 000 you know the average income in america right now is right around 48 to 54 000 depending on what part you're in so you're ahead of the average person in america so now let's go ahead and get strategic let's go ahead and think about what can we do to really set yourself up to be successful down

the road and that is pay off all your debt get a fully funded emergency fund and so you do live in new york so i know the prices up there are a little bit more expensive so you're going to be a little creative but here's the main thing chris this is what i tell everyone especially young people um you know when they're so young and

when they are ahead of the game a little bit get a clear why get a clear vision

and if you get a clear why a clearer vision then it's going to be very easy for you to do the things that you have to do to be successful but if you don't have a clear why clear vision then you'll have those kind of questions well should i do this should i do that but when you have a clear why it there's a clear answer that you need to take to get to your why not that but that clear why is going to help you avoid the short-term temporary distractions

of the bag or whatever apparently i'm the old people because you're like a bag or more money i was like what does a bag mean i guess i'm in the old look all the young people are laughing i'm like i'm learning things from ao today learning things anyway that y will help you resist those distractions and stay focused i forgot i am on the ramsay show i'm not at the table with anthony o'neil i need to lord jesus i'm sorry y'all the bag means money [Laughter]

i'm sorry james i'm sorry kelly i'm sorry this is the ramsey show

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have you ever wondered if an online will is right for you do you need a trust or a mirror wheel what kind of power attorneys do you actually need you hear me say everyone needs a will and i seriously mean this my cousin just

passed away a couple of weeks ago and she had a very detailed will and life insurance in place and it was so peaceful for the family but i get a lot of questions asking if a simple online will is right for someone specific situation so with your question in mind our team decided to build a quiz that's right a quiz and this quiz gives you custom results based on

if you're you are married or single where you live and even the size of your estate it helps you understand exactly what you need for your specific situation so i want you to take the quiz to find out what you need to protect your family and your wishes and you know what your loved ones text the word quiz two three

three seven eight nine will also text you back a promo code for twenty percent off your wheel so again text the word quiz q u i z two three three

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you will think uh me christy dave

our team later because i'm telling you chris when we lost my cousin about actually about three weeks ago um it was

it was hard uh for our family during that time and it still is hard for us but to to see that she had her will in place and to see that she had her life insurance in place and to see that she had the correct powers of attorney in place as well which couldn't use the power's attorney then but she had the right people on the account to get to

it we were able to mourn with peace not more with stress yeah i think probably the number one reason i would guess that people don't do it is because they just don't want to face it they don't want to think about it they never get around to it it's not fun i understand that but gosh the peace of mind once you do it and and we've made

it so easy on people to be able to do this the peace of mind you have knowing that that's all okay like i i had surgery in november and of course leading up to surgery um i just want to make sure everything's in place just in case anything wrong you know and it's like dave we've got everything in place and so it's just it's just gives you

the peace of mind and also gives your family the peace of mind so it's just uh great advice oh man all right text word quiz quiz 23789 and your family will be very grateful because when you have that stuff in mind what you're telling your family is i love you you know that's what you're saying i love you and thank you and i'll see you soon uh

let's go out to indianapolis and talk to luke luke good afternoon uh how can christy and i help hey good afternoon to both of you as always thank you for the help you provide yeah yeah what's going on so yeah so at my church i i lead a group and we're actually going through fbu and uh this past weekend we're talking about baby step three three to six weeks

and actually tomorrow three six months and tomorrow uh we will be debt free tomorrow we're paying off event congratulations you're excited right oh yeah because that's tomorrow it's not today okay now

my big question my wife and i uh other people in the group have the same question three versus six months so we played the clip in the video you know based on a single family a single income family or how reliable so if i can give you my circumstances i i'd really appreciate you helping me out three versus six months yeah yeah yeah um so i'm retired military 20 years

so i have retirement day that's never going to go away i have disability from the military that's not going to go away okay and i'm a school teacher okay school teacher pay of course can go away my wife she uh we homeschool we have seven daughters

yeah and i'm watching to play out the window right now it's amazing a lot of estrogen yeah and and so um

while we are a single family income i am the sole person at the same time the military and the disability comes out to about 46 000 a year and my pay

for being a teacher is about 45 000. so

it's kind of funny i get paid more for doing nothing now than i get paid for teaching but uh you know but we have seven kids so even though some of the income is reliable you know more kids you you have more events could happen that you need to dig in more expensive that emergency but the sooner that we can get past baby step three i mean baby says four five and six i've got a lot of college to start saving up for for these kids yeah yeah so i i don't want to put a lot of cash in savings or money market that's i don't need to yeah yeah so i'm looking for advice yeah yeah so luke what's your uh guaranteed annual income right now uh if i were to quit or get fired from teaching my guaranteed income from the military and disability is 45 46 000.

but there's not there's no indication that anything's wrong with the teaching right like that's been stable up to this point that's a hypothetical i just want to clarify this not only to the hypothetical i finished my grad degree in educational leadership i i'm i'm thinking about being a principal that which would of course come with the pay raise yeah so that's that's as far as we know that's a steady stable job yes yeah okay so if you're going to combine everything then um we're looking at 92 or 93 000.

000 yeah so you're good with no debt um you're perfectly fine with just three months man yeah i would i would just jump into and the reason we give people a range even when you're talking about finances that is mathematical and formula based and there are steps and principles there's always going to be a range and comfort level there are going to be some people that they will not sleep at night unless

they have six months just because that's their comfort level even if all the numbers add up fine and there's other people that are like i feel pretty good with three months i want to go ahead and get that money going into college fund so the range is really for you to customize that aspect of it to your comfort level and so if you and your wife and have a conversation

you feel good about your steady income and you feel good at three months and or three months worth of expenses and you want to start to put that money towards colleges because it's a very valid reason to want to go ahead and do that i think that's totally fine i think there's just a little bit of room for customization within that range absolutely i mean i totally agree with christy

we want you to choose um now if you would have called in and say hey i'm on a commission-based job i don't have any savings i still have debt which way you don't have debit until you pay off all your debt but if you didn't have something stable and situated then yeah we may say hey you know go ahead and get six months because you're not as stable with your income

but with you you're stable luke you have good some good income you're out of debt yes set aside three months and going ahead and jump over to baby steps four uh through six right now so i would definitely do that but thank you so much for for uh doing the class and and i before you go like i'm curious uh throughout your debt-free journey what was the hardest part of your journey

so i was actually going to say that for everyone that's listening and hasn't taken the plunge um starting that one thousand dollars there is a mental leap that you have to take it's just a mental game and if you're not willing to take that you're not all in and you just go ish well just don't do it yet wait till next year when you're ready so making that first leap and saying we're in it to win it um and not going ish the first the first

step the first step that's right yeah that's good good advice good advice for money or anything just commit you know what uh uh i think

it's seth godin has a great quote he says if you wait until you have success to commit you'll have neither you need

to commit to this thing whether it's the baby steps or your business or whatever you need to commit and then

you'll have success you will not have success if you halfway tiptoe ish your way through you'll never have either so let's stay right there chrissy let's let's turn on christy's teaching head what if someone said okay i want to commit i know i need to do this but like what are the first let's say two things that they need to do to actually commit to the process to

the journey so you know one of the things we talk a lot around here is action i tell people all the time it's not the thought that counts i don't know who came up with that no one cares what you thought about doing no one's bragging about what your husband thought about getting you for your anniversary no one's posting on facebook about what your kids thought about earning on their report cards it's what

you do that counts but what's interesting is if you take a tiny baby step literally a baby step in anything not just financial baby steps but that's why we broke it down this way if you take a tiny baby step it builds your confidence and it fuels

your momentum to take the second tiny baby step and the 30 tiny baby step and so on you look up one day and you've built the business you've lost the way you've gotten out of debt you've done the thing but it didn't happen overnight it happened one tiny baby step at a time but it all started with taking a step it's that step that moves it's the

first domino yes then the second is easier the third is easier you start to get some adrenaline some endorphins some reward from your hard work some payoff you cut off cut up the credit card you lose the weight you whatever that thing is you get your first sale you're like oh my gosh i'm doing this yes research shows anthony that the most motivating thing to people male female any age does not

matter the most motivating thing to human beings from a psychological perspective is not money it's not rewards it's not uh recognition it's seeing progress seeing the scale to go down seeing the bank account go up you see progress you want to do more of that so make some progress i told you see a teacher y'all chrissy wright ladies and gentlemen yes yes yes oh man this has been a great

hour thank you chrissy thank you james thank you kelly uh hey you guys we'll be right back this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me as number one national bestselling author and also host of the very popular the christy wright show that

you can see on youtube and on podcasts and so we're here to take your phone calls by anything if you're a lady want to start a business give christy wright a call if you're a lady you want to figure out how to go after your dreams and your purpose give christy a call you want to learn i was about to say something i was about to say something

i was about to say it again

if you want to get a bag no no no no no

if you want if you want to make some money if you want to learn how to get your money right and for the the hip hop culture if you want to learn how to secure a bag give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five uh triple eight eight two five five two two five and you can hit chrissy or myself up on social media christy christy b wright um

and anthony at anthony o'neil let's go out to uh phoenix christie and talk to a barbara good afternoon barbara how can christy and i help hi um i have an invention and i'm trying

to figure out the steps i need to take to make that happen and protect myself oh what's your invention barbara are we allowed to know or is it a secret well you know i'm not gonna say exactly it's a cleaner product i have a cleaning service okay so it's something that i've looked at doing because i've used different things you know to to do this and um

so i have something i think will work better than what anybody else has cool that's awesome so when you say you have this i'm guessing you already have a prototype or a sample that you created on your own or you need to get that made well yes

and yes um i have part of it and i need to

make a it will require a handle so i need to i have an idea in my head of how i want the handle to be because of how i want the product to work but i i don't know do i

go to an engineer do i go to a lawyer first do i what do i do because i don't want somebody to be able to feel my idea you know i know i'm going to have to have a patent on it yeah yeah

yeah well i would say i would say this when you are kind of uh just in those first early stages of exploring and research research and development you're kind of getting prototypes you're asking questions you're refining your idea i genuinely would not worry about someone stealing it because you're so under the radar you're not posting this all over the world you're not broadcasting it you're just discreetly going to some different vendors uh seeing who

you know whether it's a company a manufacturing company that makes a prototype a mold uh you know plastic molds you got to look into some of the cost and what's the most efficient way to do it i would encourage you to find the

um simplest smallest way to start

because if when you're looking at molds for example if it's a plastic based uh handle that you know whatever your design is that can get really pricey in terms of upfront costs and i don't want you to do that until you prove the concept and get some sales in but what you can do is you can just start to dig around a little bit i would say that look in your area in phoenix

first search locally because there's something so invaluable to going in person to the manufacturing plant to shaking hands with the people that are running it to seeing what their options are how they work behind the scenes behind the curtain versus dealing with an online vendor you're gonna have a lot more options online but gosh you just could also make some mistakes and lose some money in translation even

if you did pick someone online i would i would go travel to where they're located to see where that where and how they want to look for these companies that manufacturers handles yeah that's what you're looking for the other thing i would i would do some digging is and this is uh this is a very common best practice in business don't feel like you're doing anything shady

you can ask other companies that are doing something similar that are manufacturing their own similar products maybe it's not a cleaning handle but it's a different type of handle or maybe it's a different type of product in a different industry and just say hey how'd you do this who'd you talk to do you know of anybody just ask around and that is a perfectly normal thing to do in business a lot of people will be willing to share resources contacts company names hey i've got a guy over here

he may not be the guy but he's got someone over here whatever the thing is you're just going to do some scrappy digging research and i would say that even when you find an option to manufacture your handle

you want to get three different samples from three different vendors you want to get three different quotes compare costs compare commitment um and that

type of thing before you make your decision and then and only then barbara once you have got it locked in you're like i want to go with this company here's how many we're going to manufacture here's how much it's going to cost here's what all the logistics of fulfillment is once you do that

then i would get serious before you maybe sign with them then i would get serious about a patent and and you don't need a patent attorney you can go to uspto.gov

that's united states patent and trademark office.gov and you can uh file for a patent yourself it's a little it's a little bit of you know maybe two thousand dollars you can do it yourself you don't need to pay all the thousands of dollars and attorneys fees to do that for you so you do that then but first let's figure out your idea and concept and then you're ready to do

the paperwork side of it but that's awesome i think that's i think that's really cool and i think you should do it i can't wait to hear how it goes that's really cool wow listen that's why i said give us a call we got we got the she's the one right tell her how to do it tell her how to save some money still pursue her dreams

but here's here's the first steps yeah that's why you know it can be intimidating when you have an idea because you're like well i've got this awesome idea how do i bring it bring it into action those first steps can be a little a little intimidating but you can do it absolutely absolutely uh max is in philadelphia uh good afternoon man how can uh christy and i help hey thank

you so much for taking my call really appreciate it yeah go ahead real quick we got about two minutes so uh good to your question so um yeah i'm on baby step two um i am trying to figure out ways to increase my shovel to fill this mess that i've made in um i just uh so i got a 5k increase for a new position at work within

the last couple weeks and i just found out that i got a little over five thousand dollar bonus for the year okay um i have a pretty unique ability

to play piano and sing on the side okay and i'm

wondering whether it's acceptable to sort of put some money into that whether it's you know i've been thinking about getting this piano shell that sort of mimics a grand piano to throw that tip chart kind of right in people's faces uh for those kind of request songs or you know

i'm kind of feeling guilty about even the idea of putting a pause in the baby baby steps um i also have to get into some sort of car to be able to get to those gigs which i don't have right now how much debt do you have right now uh max so i have 13 in about so it's an

old car loan uh that isn't around anymore due to an accident so i should be getting some settlement money at some point okay i i have no idea when though but uh and then uh like 250 thousand dollars in student loans yeah yeah yeah i'll tell you real quick max you don't need to put any money from your bonus into your side gig if you're in a different type of business like you're a fitness coach

and you don't have equipment to do what you need to do i'd say yeah you don't need it for what you do you're able to do what you do on the side without taking any money just get a bigger tip jar from like walmart and just stick it in their face on top of the piano the things that i'm hearing don't sound necessary they sound nice but not necessary

so put that money on your on your debt don't worry about you don't need that to do what you do yeah man i agree i totally agree with chrissy there's no need to spend any extra money or anything you need to put all the money uh towards your debt because you need financial freedom you don't need anything extra for your business now i do want you to consider keep that side gig

so you can keep some money generating people towards your debt but don't spend any more money into that all right get out of debt keep the bag this is the

ramsay show

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monique is in san antonio texas with

a great question for christy monique how

can christina help hi y'all it's an honor to

be on your show i've been listening to dave and everyone for years um i have a question for christy i have read ken coleman's proximity principle and i just started your book christy business boutique awesome and um i'm just at the beginning

and kind of it's i feel like god's been slapping in my face i've prayed about it i've lived the corporate life forever and i know there's so much more out there for me i have a chronic illness i do live with multiple sclerosis i've had it for about seven years or so and i want to share with not just other people with multiple sclerosis but anybody with a chronic illness

the importance of health and fitness and a positive attitude i think goes a long way too because i'm open about it but there's people that don't know and when people find out i have this they're like i would have never guessed that monique and how do you do it because i know somebody that has it and they don't they just kind of have such a bad attitude

i don't want to do anything so i've i want to start a blog well i have my website already i purchased that i don't know and i want to go into fitness training for people with disabilities and i just i don't know if this is something that could potentially become a career or even how to start i've seen all these like on facebook and everywhere oh pay x amount 100

and we'll teach you how to blog and earn money and i just don't know if this is something solely because i've seen in your book you've said it all you need is social media and you can start a whole new career i guess i'm still kind of how do i go about doing this and is this a idea that maybe could go somewhere

um it's kind of what i'm reaching out to you for christy yeah absolutely well first let me ask you a really basic question do you like to write i do

and i love telling my story because i want to help people because i feel like there's so much that people don't know about the illness and what's available to them out there from everything to assistance with drugs and do you need these certain medications or not yeah i feel like there's so much i've learned in my time and um the power of a positive attitude and how to help people

so that's where i'm at and i do love to talk and write about it okay well here the reason i asked is because you definitely have a message and you definitely have people you want to help with it so that is clear where i want to challenge you a little bit is blogging isn't your only way to do that here's what i hear and i'm just and you're just on

the phone with me monique i hear such expressiveness in your voice that i would be willing to bet you'd be good on camera you would be good on a podcast you would be good on a youtube channel now i'm not saying you have to do that but the reason i'm challenging you there is making money through blogging is very similar to making money through podcasting or youtubing

so you really get to pick what is your medium to share your message and maybe you do multiple ones i do multiple ones but you want to start with one you want to start with one and get good at it to get your message out what's cool is when you start to help people through that medium then you're going to learn

what messages are resonating what information people need and you can always add branches on to how you do that now here's the deal making money through blogging or youtube or podcasting or anything like that is a slow process if you don't have a product product or service to sell you're selling advertising or sponsorships or affiliate marketing you've got to have eyeballs ears clicks to be able to monetize it if

you're talking about just monetizing the blog itself or the podcast itself a better way to approach it is i'm going to look at this as a marketing channel for anthony and i we don't make very much money for our company or ourselves through our podcast show where the money comes in is the back end when we talk about oh by the way i have a devotional living true 40 days to get back to

you or i have a book business boutique or anthony has a book debt-free degree when we talk about these additional resources that people buy that's where the revenue stream is but the the podcast the show

the blog that's the it's more of a marketing megaphone as an example so you can approach it either way you can do both you can have affiliates and sponsorships and we have that as well but that's not going to be the bulk of your revenue unless you just have a massive following which when you're starting you don't so right what i want to challenge you to do as a starting point is think about which sounds the most fun to you being on camera through youtube being on a podcast or

writing and you like i said you can always add them in later but man if people are saying to you monique i never would have known that you struggle with this then visually they see something in you that inspires them and i don't think

that comes through in a blog i just want to challenge you there you're going to be able to possibly amaze people inspire people help people more when they see your presentation on camera or hear the expressiveness in your voice on a podcast and they go oh my gosh she struggles with ms i would never would have known and and make that much more of an impact so

i just want to challenge you there you there's no right or wrong you do what's right for you but then begin to think about what's the revenue stream um in addition to is it a course is it

coaching is it um you know some other type of consulting is there some other uh backend revenue stream that's going to make it more profitable for you faster than just waiting on eyeballs to come and monetizing those to advertisers so i just want you to think about that the revenue side but also think of the medium but i definitely think you should do it when you start to dip your toe in you'll start to learn more about what

you like and what works and you want to do more of that great question wow man that was an amazing question this is fine this is this is i love it i love it man let's keep the conversation going let's go out to cincinnati have a conversation here with allison good afternoon alison how can christy and i help hi are you there yes what's up okay

um so my husband and i are trying to decide we're in baby step 3b

um and saving for a house what our monthly payment should be because we make about eight thousand dollars a month okay so that would be the twenty-five percent for two thousand however we have a one-year-old and a three-year-old in full-time daycare and that's a pretty big cost it's about 20 a month okay so should we subtract that from the 8 000 to come up with the monthly mortgage payment i mean i think for you at this present time now do you have no debt right

correct okay and you have a fully funded emergency fund correct yeah all right i just want to make sure that we're super clear on that um so i think for me the bear max not the bear max but the max you can go to is two thousand dollars that's going to be 25 of your take-home pay and so if you want to go down lower than two thousand dollars by all means do that

if you feel as if you will be a little bit more it will it will be a little bit more comfortable for you and your family um but i firmly believe that two

thousand dollars is a great mortgage right uh but then at the same time how can we maybe cut out on some other some other expenses so that we can live in a comfortable house but if you wanna go down to fifteen hundred dollars a month totally great it goes back to what we were talking about earlier anthony where it's like there's a there's a comfort level that

you get to have the discernment to decide what are we comfortable with i'll tell you for matt and i as we have made more money over the last 10 years we have not upgraded our home and lifestyle we will at some point but we haven't and so we have more margin and that margin is peace of mind when my son went in the hospital a few years ago peace of mind there's no even with an emergency peace of mind

and so i will say that allison if you're even a little bit concerned about you don't have to go up to the limit that's a rule of thumb absolutely you can buy a home that's a little bit less than that still meets what you want in a home but you don't have to max it out just because you quote unquote can because it's the formula again use your discernment

and your comfort level and if you know like hey i'd feel better having a little bit more margin and wiggle room with two young kids which are highly unpredictable then by all means feel free to do that i think you need to do what's right for you absolutely i mean absolutely what does your husband think alison

we we go back and forth every day yeah

yeah i definitely i i definitely don't i definitely agree with chrissy just sit down with your husband and you all figure out what's comfortable for you just don't go above two thousand dollars but if you're saying hey let's just stick around 1250 a month hey that is that is great i mean we we want you to be comfortable uh we don't want you living paycheck to paycheck

we want you to have freedom we want you to have peace um but then at the same time i'm not just looking at my mortgage payment too chrissy i'm looking at everything though you know where can i cut out on some things where can i cut off on daycare a little bit where can i find maybe i want to say a cheaper daycare but like a daycare that may be still good

but even is within my budget yeah and the other thing that's so interesting too about margin especially when you're in this baby step and this is kind of what you're working towards if you're able to be in a home you like and have that margin then when things come up you cash flow easier you're not having to save for 10 months for an expense it comes quicker

because man you've got so much margin to put at it it just it makes a big difference it really does it really does well y'all i'm excited because coming up next on the next segment we got two young people on the debt free stage that's right so you all definitely want to come back after this tell your mama tell your daddy get the cats get the dogs cause

we bout to have a debt free screen

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christy america i'm excited

because we have in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage two young people james and megan's

megan see i'm getting excited can't say a name right man i get excited you know uh when i see two young people on the stage um who are clearly debt free so give us the

information how much debt did you pay off we paid off 93 000 in about 25 months

93 000 in 25

months yes y'all was working and then how much was your combined household income during that time where did you start where did you finish well for the first six months we're at about forty three thousand dollars what and you went up to yeah i'm trying

to do the math here okay and we went up to about a hundred thirty thousand dollars look at you a hundred and thirty then that's

chris that's how you secure the bag

right here on the stage his bag went big

so what okay so what happened uh

from for you ought to go from 43 000 to 130 000 income yeah yeah so we got out of college and had student loan debt and all those things and so we um he was finishing up the police academy and i was working and then it took a little while to find a job so when he finally found a job we were able to keep living like we were living on one income in order to make sure that we were paying off our debt smart yeah what what do you two do i'm a

police officer and megan's a teacher amazing two amazing careers that's right thank you both serving our country that's right yes yes all right so i'm assuming that ninety three thousand dollars in student loans majority of them well it was about sixty thousand dollars in student loans okay i had the majority of that um all right uh two car notes and just a couple other

miscellaneous like three thousand oh so yeah thousand dollars in credit card debt you're just very normal that's it student loans two nice cars and some you know some other small stuff okay cool so um what happened you know what made

you all want to attack this 93 000 in student loans well i didn't think we had a problem at all we're just living day to day um and i got an invite we got to invite to attend my high school football coach

and his wife uh for dinner we met them for dinner and they were just happy they were excited they were like hey we got to tell you about this thing we paid we're paying off our debt like we're getting out of it and just to see their faces light up and for them to tell us i was like megan we we have to do something but before that um right

after we got married someone actually gave us dave ramsey's total money makeover book okay with a hundred dollars so we took the hundred dollars and we kind of tossed the book aside like we don't need that everybody does every wedding gift ever so after dan and carolyn uh invited us over for dinner we went back scrambling looking for the book but we couldn't find it we don't know who gave

it to us either so yeah so shout out to whoever gave us that book for our wedding gift but we read the book and like i just lit up i read the book in a couple hours actually i just sat down and read the whole thing and megan was on board and

yeah wait you read the whole book in a couple hours like in one two hours it was well it was like it was like six hours oh yeah no not a couple but like six hours yeah still reading the book in six hours but it takes me six weeks it usually does too but that book i just couldn't put down for some reason i was determined i was definitely determined yeah that is cool that is awesome

so i'm curious when you decided to make this commitment what was the first like few weeks like when you realized like okay we've decided and now you gotta make some sacrifices and actually take action on it that for some people between idea to action is hard talk about that kind of that stage right there yeah yeah we our budget was really jacked up the first time so everybody says yeah

we never sat down and budgeted anything we didn't know where our money was going or what was happening so it was just a mess yeah after that after we finally kind of configured what we wanted to budget for everything it got easier but it took some hard conversations letting go of certain things and just um making sure that we were doing what we needed to do to get where

we wanted to go so what would you two say is the key to

getting out of debt what's that one key uh to the millions of people

listening to your message right now um it definitely takes commitment um with anything i never went through a process before where i mean i was that committed for that

long too i mean two years it was seemed like a long time it was it was a long journey but looking back at it it went by quick to us um but definitely commitment in if i can

add a one b it would be budgeting for sure

yeah budgeting was was great yeah

that's so good um i'm gonna put you on a

spot what's your why like why did you all really really want to become debt free think about 10 years down the road like why does this matter to you two as a married couple young married couple well i'll kind of talk about my why i don't know um i was going through the police academy i wasn't making any income and megan was taking care of the entire family and we had a two-month-old son at home wow so um he

he's definitely our why my why

of why we did things i mean i don't want him to go through the process we had with student loans and other debt so because we took

the sacrifice the short sacrifice to pay off our debt he would never have to experience that again so just knowing that i mean that's amazing for me that's awesome megan yeah i think mine was really motivated by micah he we had to struggle through and make sure that our our loans are paid off but we don't want him to have to go through that um and just not have to worry about money in general yeah that's

so good who are y'all's two biggest cheerleaders uh we actually had a couple um her sister alyssa and her husband

alex they went through financial peace university with us they actually are debt free as well that's great um and dan and carolyn the couple that introduce us to the dave ramsey playing so shout out to them shout out to him

so how does it feel i mean how let me ask this question if you don't want to answer it i might totally understand but how old are you two i'm 26 and megan will be 26

next week

you're about to get fired up i know that face i know that face you get excited you're 26 years old paid off 93 000

in two years in one month

i just got to ask how does it feel to be on the end of the millennial age you know and you're debt-free you have a beautiful son like how does it feel it feels

amazing it really does i i didn't know

it was gonna feel this great until it hit us i mean i thought the entire plan was a scam i want to be honest with you then uh i mean we just saw we just started tackling in debt our debt we're like we can do this we really can i mean it feels amazing and it feels amazing to not have to work all the overtime now now so just take a break and i mean it

feels it feels amazing it does your hard work has paid off that's amazing listen man oh man i'm this is the ramsey

show so i got to be i got to be careful what i say because i'm just excited for you too you know when i see young people like yourself focused determined living with intentionality saying hey we want to be debt-free so our son can enjoy life grow up without debt and then pass that on to his kids and to their kids it started with you all that's right

you two are the legacy beginners man i just i just salute you man so clearly you two are on your way to becoming everyday millionaires so we have a copy of uh our good friend chris hogan's book everyday millionaires for you man this this is amazing is micah here he is let's get him out let's get micah on the stage you guys man james and megan paid off 93

000. in 25 months making 43

130 000 in a year

let's hear a debt free scream counted down

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wow i mean chris i mean at 26

you're older than me right christy okay we don't need to bring that up uh we don't know okay he feels a little pointed anybody i'm just saying if i'm just saying at 26 were you thinking like that no i was hitting i was realizing i had to turn something around that was the beginning of my journey not the end of it for sure that for sure that's awesome and christie is older to me hey this is the ramsay's

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show and sitting in today is christy wright number one national bestselling author and anthony o'neil and uh i've written a book once or twice

but man we are here to take your phone calls and to really have a great time we love laughing uh we love um just talking and helping and serving people and so we're gonna keep it going on the phone lines uh chrissy let's have a conversation with alex out in tampa florida good afternoon alex how can christy and i help hey y'all how's it going here uh a long time less than our first time caller over here all right how can we help

i got a question for you all uh we are a first time home buyer and uh the real estate market down here in north florida is hot and just like it everywhere everywhere else in the us and uh just wanted to get your opinion on as a first time home buyer here and um if we should still continue the rent or if we should go ahead and pull the trigger and uh buy or uh build right now

um or wait till the summer or wait till you know no one can come to the market but i was just curious on what your thoughts were on that and says this is the highest the market's ever been with uh with the lowest inventory cool great great great give me a little bit about yourself you know how much are you out of debt uh yeah yeah we are

completely out of debt it's gonna be uh my fiance uh courtney and i okay uh

we uh we have about 180 uh saved up

we're completely out of debt okay 108.

um is that 180k on top of your savings or is that total 180 000.

uh that's a total of a 180 a thousand dollars saved between the two of us that's amazing that's real i mean you you you two are killing the game all right so yeah um so i like that so do you two

plan on staying in florida once you two get married uh yeah so we're getting married here in a few months and uh we'll be uh we'll be the uh in the tampa

area looking for a uh home cool great well here's my suggestion you clearly have the money okay um i'm not going to put i'm not going to spend 180 000 to put down on a home i'm going to look at what what will it take to have at least three to six months of your emergencies inside of there if you two have a stable income a stable job uh

then i would definitely go ahead and just keep it down to maybe uh just three months uh but if you're like in freelance uh entrepreneurship type stuff i would go ahead and set aside six months and so you'll have at least 100 000 put into a home so generally what what what we tend to say is um wait one year after you get married so you and your wife together can go around looking

and see what you know what you all like get used to living with each other and i still like that for you too even though you all are already in tampa and you're going to stay in tampa but i do believe that you should go in ahead and just maybe save up a little bit more and just spend at least give yourself six months in the same house learning each other learning what

you like learning okay we need this now since we understand how to live with each other uh so i would suggest right uh when are y'all getting married alex yeah we're getting married in september oh congratulations well it's interesting too because what's so cool about your position um financially especially is you have options so if something

happened to come on the market that's just the most perfect house in the whole world and you prayed about it you feel like god is this is the thing then you're in a position to buy it if you wanted to but i could not agree with anthony moore because i will tell you totally transparent and this is not talking behind matt's back but matt and i would both agree

the first marriage first year of marriage was hard everyone talks about the newlywed phase and it is fun but you are bringing your own set of expectations to even just living in a house with someone of how they grew up and you grew up and who's doing what dishes and chores and and so what's so cool is if you add the extra stress of buying a home decorating a home uh owning a home

and all the maintenance that goes into that on top of that first year it will add to your stress now it's not that you can't do it but i agree with anthony i think if you babystep that and you said okay first step let's just get used to living together as newlyweds with less pressure and the landlord can take care of the maintenance second step let's buy a home

and and take on that new level of challenge together i think it's just going to spread it out make it a little bit more enjoyable for you it's not like you have to but man i think that's the maybe the smarter option yeah great question alex and congrats on yeah congratulations your wife doing that hey stay on the line since you two are getting married i'm gonna have kelly give

you a free year subscription to um ramsay plus and so because you all are gonna be starting off in baby steps four through six and so i definitely would love to uh just sew into y'all's marriage because i i'm praying that it's going to be fruitful and you all will be married for years and years and years and years and years until both of you all go home to see

the lord so that's alone forever hey blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer for custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's

question comes from dylan in new york um i've been a part of i've been a part-time freelance proof reader for a little over two years now i'm ready to expand my business but there are only so many hours in a day christy i currently turn down about two projects a month because i don't have time to do them i'm thinking about subcontracting out the projects i don't have time for

but i'm not sure how i would structure their pay or if it's morally okay to accept work from a client and then give it to someone else to do though i would review every job to make sure it's highly quality high quality what do you think christy two things super simple number one raise your prices period raise your prices if the demand is higher than the supply

the supply being the hours you have in a day it is time to raise your prices and then that is just that's showing you what you're able to do at this time it's a great time to raise your prices second thing is when you talk about is it morally okay to accept work from a client and then give it to someone else do that is what business is

when you employ team members so of course it's morally okay the only thing that you might want to do just for your own peace of mind and to be fully up front with the client is to let them know that your subcontractor your team member however you want to uh phrase it and structure that that person's employment with you uh you should be upfront that they're going to do

it and you let them know like hey i'm going to pass this off to so and so they're going to but i'm going to supervise it i'm going to make sure the quality of work when it comes to that you need to think through the pay so you're going to build in to the the cost for the client

the amount that you're going to pay the subcontractor the team member to do it and the amount of money that you're going to make off the top for running the business because you're running a business now and you're employing people so you can do either you can raise your prices or subcontract it out and manage that like a business or you can do both and uh all of them are good ideas

and that's exactly what you should be doing when your business is expanding and the demand is growing great question oh man that's such a real good question um you know it's so funny because when you was answering the question christy i was like absolutely man people do this every single time all the time every single day yeah

that's right i call one company yeah we're going to send out a contractor but i called you well they work for us that's right so there's nothing wrong with it just make sure that whoever is representing you is doing a great job at what they're doing so this is what's your brand on it your name on it your reputation absolutely hey you guys are you feeling um stuck with your money uh like you've never you'll never get out of debt or save enough uh for

the future listen it doesn't have to be that way you can make progress with your money and faster than you think but the only way to make it happen is with a budget again we just heard the debt-free couple say you gotta get on the b word a budget that's why you need ramsey plus membership you'll get access to the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app you'll be able to plan out every dollar you'll spend

and save before the month begins connect your budget to your bank so you can never miss any transactions and get custom budget reports that shows you where you can find more

money and put towards your goals when you budget and get intentional with your money you will make progress

let me say that one more time when you budget when you have a vision for your money and get intentional with your money

you will make progress and progress very fast and you can start budgeting for free today to start your free trial of ramsey plus go to daveramsey.com that's daveramsey.com

i can't tell you how much i love budgeting i didn't like it at first chris it would be real really oh i didn't like it i didn't like it because i i was able to see where i was spending the majority of my money and i didn't like looking at myself see i like i'm the control freak i like the control like oh i get to just move

these numbers around and control it and see it and it's like a game i love it i'm glad that you loved it i didn't like it but now i do love it

well that's a wrap for this hour man it's been fun christy james kelly america thank you so much this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neil host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is number one national best-selling author christy wright and host of the christy wright show and author of the most recent book um living true yeah i'm so excited about

that christy this book is fire so this is so fun because did you know i don't know if you knew this ao okay this is the very first devotional our company's ever put out you know i just love to get away with stuff and try i just i love to push the boundaries a little bit i see you listen a couple years ago i just really felt a desire

and a call to write a devotional and here's the thing this is something i have felt and this is something i've heard from for over a decade of working with women i remember speaking at one of my first speaking events at purdue university in 2010 and a woman walked up to me after i spoke on life balance and she said i just feel like i've lost myself wow

and i've heard those words and it's not just women but i think women uniquely experience that whether it's in motherhood different seasons of life different jobs or careers you feel like you lose yourself in your own life and you're going where am i wow in my own life and so i really felt like god was calling me to tackle this topic so we released it just a couple months ago it's called living true 40 days to get back to

you and what's cool about 40 days and you know this because you're a church guy but 40 is a very biblical number and it's also not intimidating for a busy woman that wants to read it because even even not just 365 days but 100 days that's that's a big commitment for someone who's super busy but 40 days to get back to you and i walk through four sections who god is who

you are where you are in your season of life and where you're going and what god says about each of those we spend 10 days on each of them and ao it's been really cool and you know this when you put something new out in the world you're excited about it but it feels a little bit vulnerable and you're like i don't know is this going to connect is

this going to do what i want it to do and it is just blowing up in terms of reviews and and the the stories of people spending time with god or god speaking to them on just what they needed here on just that day which by the way is what god does that's not what christie wrote does that's what god does and the holy spirit but it has been cool to see how god is using that to help women get back to themselves

and get back to who they were created to be man listen listen you guys i need you to get this book um and for the brothers get the book for your wife oh mother's day is coming up oh mother's day is coming up you know get the book for your mother get the book for your wife get the book for your girlfriends and you know i want

you to live true you know what i was thinking about doing so 40 40 such a biblical number with the uh 40 days it rained 40 days jesus was tempted in the wilderness you know another 40 days between the resurrection and the ascension so i think i'm going to start on monday april 5th the day after easter and i think i'm going to walk through this on instagram with people for those 40 days

when jesus appears i mean i know it's symbolic because it's yesterday but wouldn't that be cool i think i'm gonna do that absolutely if you follow me on instagram at christybright we're gonna walk through that so get your copy so you can join us for those 40 days go to chrissyright.com you guys go to chrissyright.com get get a book so that when she launches this on her instagram um

you can follow her you can connect with her on instagram at christybewright again that's christy b wright uh so that way you can be a part of this get the book get on there because i'm telling you right now christy wright got energy so you're not gonna be bored you're not gonna fall asleep or lazy or slowing down she's gonna come with the energy and so and

you know what if it comes about living true if you have any questions about living true about balance life balance uh give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we have another hour with you all today four more segments or actually three more segments after this so we are here to answer your question about uh money i've been teaching uh the world today about what

the definition of securing the bag so security that's been a theme of today's show yeah you know sorry about getting it getting a check making money and so if you have a question about you know how to get more money how to get out of debt how to secure the bag give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five uh daniel's with us in uh jackson mississippi uh daniel good afternoon how can uh chrissy

and i help absolutely thank

y'all for letting me come on and uh i'll try to make this pretty brief my question is i am currently working through the steps and i'm about a month away from

getting baby step three and moving into four okay um and so basically i have

a positive cash flow of about three thousand dollars a month okay and uh my current financial advisor

has gone more the route of uh

encouraging heavy investment in 401k and

raw okay basically to the point where i'm not paying extra on my mortgage and i know um the the advice i've gotten so far is that uh to do it the way that you do 15 and

then pay down your house uh is some people say safe money or incredibly conservative um but can you help me understand a bit better the benefits of going that 15 route and paying down the home early yeah yeah so let me ask you this question how much is your your um financial advisor telling you to invest yeah so he's essentially uh 40

of my uh gross income so

uh he is out of that 3 000

he's encouraging me to invest 21.25 a

month and how do you listen up

i'm sorry i say again i mean and how do you live off of that right yeah yeah no i agree and so here's the thing i agree and go ahead what we teach daniel is we want you to live comfortable we want you to live below your means um how old are you if you don't mind me asking 21.

okay 29 so you're a young guy okay you're young like christy and i and so we have no problem with you uh

i have no problem with you even being aggressive with your investing but what i want you to do is first go ahead and attack the 15 and then go ahead and pay off your mortgage while you're doing that now once you pay off your mortgage and you're completely debt free baby step number seven is build wealth and give so if you want to go back and up your investments

you have that option you can do that if you want to go out there and start purchasing some land start purchasing some real estate you can do that but right now the main thing is start investing and at the 15

minimum and then get very aggressive with paying off your mortgage so that way you could be 100 debt free going into maybe your late 30s and your early 40s and if you and if you're married at that time your spouse decided hey let's invest some more over here or let's do this with real estate or let's open up this business by all means you have the right to do that

because you're in the the step that requires you or will not requires you but it's the step to build wealth and give but right now you're young i would rather you focus on paying off debt because i want financial freedom um i want bondage off of you and and so that's what i would really really focus on uh brother uh because yeah so i what i would suggest is to

interview another financial advisor i would go to smartvestorpro.com go to daveramsey.com look up one of our smart investors don't leave your financial advisor yet but interview one of ours uh you'll get about five phone calls from five solid people who i fully endorse christy fully endorsed stay fully endorsed and just have a conversation with them and get get some other advice because again i want you to grow doing

this process i want you to build wealth during this process but at the same time once you get the right wisdom below in this journey and yeah and it's a marathon daniel it's a marathon not a sprint you want to enjoy your life along the way you want to be conservative but you want to enjoy your life not have you know nothing to live on and enjoy

it just because you're you're investing so much oh yeah man yeah 40 it's a great question i mean it's good that he's asking that's cool gotta ask it this is the ramsay show

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hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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taxes christy nobody wants to do them

but you know what we all have to do them

but with ramsey smart tax you finally have an easy money smart way to foul online the other

software out there it's not what it's cracked up to be let me just be 100 with you all right they say it's free but no turbo tax is

not free for the vast majority of people who use it they sign up racket up the price and suddenly free turns into forty dollars sixty dollars even up to a hundred and twenty dollars which is ridiculous but you know what here ramsay solutions we love our people and we don't jack you around like that the cost to file a federal return with ramsey smart tax is crystal clear 17 or 37 not 60 not 120

and depending on the level of support you need plus 32 dollars if you have to file state taxes and some

folks don't just like tennessee but listen

it's not just about cost our technology and support we'll go toe-to-toe with turbo any day of the week and we will never let me say this again we will never leverage your financial situation to sell you credit cards and ridiculous loans like a lot of these young people not young people like a lot of these other companies do sign up for smart tax uh for free and take a look around the software you won't pay

a thing till you are confident you've got your taxes right and you're ready to click file so

take out your phones right now actually you should have your phones out right now if you're driving don't drive in text i want you to text the word tax tax 233789

that's tax tax 233789

let me tell you something people use tax software thinking these companies have their best interest at heart and they don't yeah and that's why they are selling you all these credit cards and all these ridiculous things and you go to it and you think oh well they're experts they're financial experts they know taxes i can trust them i should get this credit card and man people are making some mistakes with their whole financial future

because of that they're leading them astray that's why it's so important to use a company you trust that's why we want to help you with this yes yes i'm telling you right now um you know i actually fouled through my account but i mean if i didn't have one i would definitely be using this yeah you know because i mean it's clear i might have actually walked through

it myself um even on my youtube shows show people how to do it and this is super clear and they ask you all the right questions to make sure that you're filing correctly and you won't have any trouble uh legally down the road that's so good and so again i want to say this again i want you to text the word tax tax 233 789 and i promise

you you'll

think ramsay solutions uh later on we're going to go out to arkansas and talk to rachel rachel good afternoon how can christy and i help good afternoon how are you guys doing well doing well thanks for calling in how can we help um so i have my

like three to six months of emergency fund and i'm just wondering um how much is good like percentage-wise

for a down payment on a house yeah yeah yeah that's a good question so what we teach here at ram solutions has baby set 3b once you get once you are out of debt once you have a fully funded emergency fund you move over to 3b and you save 10 to 20 percent to put down on a home

now rachel the ideal situation is going to pay for a cash but a lot of us are not going to pay for a cash i know i couldn't pay for mine cash unbe real right here in the ramsey show and so uh the bare minimum we say is 10 to 20 percent to put down when are you looking to purchase a home rachel um in the near future um

my roommate situation is not like ideal

and i just also don't like the fact that i just keep putting money into rent and i'm not really getting anything out of it besides short term yeah yeah yeah don't don't see and when i hear people say this like oh man i'm wasting money on rent no you're actually saving money you know because uh in the long term i get the philosophy behind why you think like that

but renting allows you to set yourself up to make the right decision to purchase the home the right way so it can be it will save you a lot of money i know a lot of people who will just do the you know the fha loan 3.5 down get into a house that they really can't afford when they go to sell it they really can't make any money off of

it because they didn't do it the right way so what we teach here is to save 10 to 20 to put down on a home you're going to finance at a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage now some people say well anthony that's a lot of money so here's the thing when it comes to 20 rachel if you can put 20 down you have 20 equity inside of your home

this is going to help you avoid a pmi private mortgage insurance all right and so if you are doing a private mortgage insurance like what most most fha loans do you're spending a lot of money that doesn't go towards your principal or interest okay and we do not want you to do that but here's the bare minimum if you put down 10 the key thing here is just make sure that your mortgage payment is less than 25 of your take-home pay

so put down that if it's 10 15 okay cool

great uh but the ideal situation would be 20 so that way you can avoid pmi sounds good i'm here oh man thank you so

much for calling in i really do appreciate it uh ryan is with us in fort wayne good afternoon ryan how can christy and i help yeah so i kind of torn on

what to do as far as um housing situation here so i'm on baby step two and we're doing really really good gazelle intensity feeling great uh snapped all of our credit cards in half uh canceled them all yeah uh should have about half my

student loans paid off by the end of this year let's go awesome yes i'm feeling great um i was very very blessed income increased last year and it's going to increase this year as well too so i got an email the other day saying that the guesstimation i guess is what i'm kind of calling it that the equity on my house has gone up just from being

there for a couple years and the equity is getting really close to how much my student loans are on the outstanding balances right now would it make sense to sell the home in the next couple years if the equity gets past it and then rent to kind of streamline baby step three or just keep going with gazelle intensity and build more equity and just be more patient that way

when it comes to baby step three you know i'll have more equity in the house and if we do sell the house we'll have that much more for emergency funds investing

et cetera et cetera man such a great question ryan and um i love the tone of your voice i hear the focus um i hear it i hear the intentionality inside of you um the fact that you're willing to ask this question about your home lets me know that that you and your family are very serious about paying off your debt so i want to commend you and celebrate you for that let's just say right now that you had no debt you had a fully funded emergency fund would you want to sell the house yeah

you will so you you're not sold on this house you don't love this house this is not love love we we do love the house the thing is we know the pro the family's probably gonna expand in the future as well too so we're gonna need more room okay um but we got into this house at a really really good price at a really really good time in a really strong housing market out here and it worked in our favor just don't know if i should just keep riding this momentum train that i'm on or uh get into baby step 3 quicker if that means getting out of debt sooner and just renting how much debt do you have real quick close to about 50.

okay yeah um i'm going to stay in the house right now same same thank you good please i was getting so nervous

yeah i'm staying in the house man i'm going to stay in the house i'ma ride it until the house can no longer fit me and my family fifty thousand dollars uh real quickly what's your household income combined between the wife and i

so we both work commission so realistically we're going to be about 130. this year if this year goes well

we'll probably be close to about 160.

yeah you could be debt free within the next you know within the next 12 to 14 15 months if you all do this

and then here's the thing that's interesting ryan sometimes when we get so motivated we get so excited we're like how can i fast track that and i get it because i'm wired the same way but what's interesting is if you're not careful you will get so excited you will make a decision that just creates a different set of problems for you you then have to save up all over again for a house you're renting

you don't like your landlord it's a headache you're moving and then you've got commissions and fees and moves it's a different headache it's not like you got rid of the problem you just had a different problem so i would say stay put keep building equity just like ao said get out of debt and then do it patiently over time absolutely that's right y'all heard christie not so good no chris no

you had it this is the ramsay show

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i just love that music that our producer aka dj is playing right there that's some good music james thank you for that sir i need you to bring you on to the table with anthony o'neil cause i like that music this is the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five chrissy

wright and myself anthony o'neil are here today to talk to you today about your life your money want to start a business uh whatever you want to do uh give us a call we can talk about relationships normally chrissy when john deloney and i on oh we get a lot of marriage and relationship and boyfriend girlfriend and should i move in questions we haven't gotten any of those

i thought that's a i bet that's a fun conversation between you and delivery oh man listen you know before the show my producer our producer james came in and said hey man you should be a little more softer when you say things you know i was like i understand i can do that if i try real real real hard and focus he was like hey you shouldn't say that

because it could come off a certain kind of way and i was like okay all right cool great great great so you know what we need to do next time we need to set it up and have people call in with faith questions because i'm doing this devo stuff right now you've got a church background like we could just we could just bring him to church ao

i feel like we could do that let's do it next time we'll do that we got another segment coming up after this if you have any faith questions um not really devo questions because faith will even to the devil but any faith questions give us a call next segment triple eight eight two five five two two five let kelly know you got a faith question maybe she'll let

you on maybe she won't she's the boss you know triple eight eight two five five two two five andy is with us in colorado springs oh good afternoon andy i see you have a question for christy talk to us what's going on hi guys it's a pleasure to to speak to you today i i recommend dave and his team everybody and tell them i'd be a millionaire three times over voted known

he existed ten years ago you and everybody else right he did really i've got um i've got a weird issue that cropped up today okay i uh i own a coffee shop in colorado springs and i got an email we have we use a um

a an app for scheduling called home base

and we received an email today that they are rolling out something really exciting for my employees they're going to be offering my employees the ability to get cash advances on their pay at no cost to me and it's wonderful for

them in case they need extra money yeah what

how many points do you have i have 19. okay here's what i'm gonna do

andy and this is gonna sound drastic but it's that important because i can hear your voice this is this is against your values period right

right yeah we're not going to use a program that's against your values period so here's what we're going to do you're going to tell your 19 employees which is absolutely something you can manage on your own even if it is just means you write checks to people for their paychecks for a couple weeks until you get a new program in place but what i would do is i would go to the leadership of that company and say i'm canceling immediately unless you take this off the table and change this policy for my employees if they will not back down then you cancel and you let your team know you send an email to your team and say hey guys i hate that this is happening we're going to go with a new program uh we had some differences in leadership and values and we're just not going to use a program you don't even have to go in the details of what it was we're not going to use a program that's uh against our values and we've done that as a company just so you know andy ramsey solutions has absolutely pulled out i mean just slammed on the emergency brake with vendors uh companies that we've used for different things the moment they try to do something that is not in line with our values there's no price that is worth it when you're running your company you're running it because you want it to be in line with your value so what i would recommend you do is first reach out to the leadership of that scheduling app try to get on a phone call and say either this is not being offered and i will consider staying with you for for you know the time being or if they will not you immediately cancel your relationship with them i don't care if you use a google doc to schedule your team members you got 19.

we're not talking about 500 people here you can manage the schedule uh just to me it is 500.

yeah i yeah i hear you but keep in mind it's temporary right it's going to be up maybe a month maybe you make their schedule by hand in an excel spreadsheet or google doc for a month and that's it and and or even it might even just be a few days till you find something there's a million options out there you just need enough time to be able to find something that's better

and that's gonna take you a few days to do that so you're buying yourself a little time with your team and just tell your team whatever their schedule is how long have they been scheduled out through like what do they know they're scheduled through the schedule two weeks in advance okay okay you're fine they're set their schedule set their schedule set we're gonna pull out of this company

and figure out a different option for you but i absolutely would not let this roll out to your team you will regret it it will keep you up at night you will start to hate yourself they are going to regret it they are going to regret it so much and there's no like consequences and they tell you we don't sell your information but you know as soon as

they start borrowing something's gonna something's gonna drop yeah this is gonna give everything in you that is like the red flag alarms going off is absolutely accurate and i want you to listen to that and i want you to go ahead even though it may feel uncomfortable to do this it feels like a knee jerk decision they're forcing you in this position and and you need to do what's best for

you your company and your team members and the best thing is to not allow this to roll out worried that i was being more of a dad than a boss

no no no no here's what's interesting here's what's interesting this is not about you what you allow or

don't allow for your team members okay i want to separate this for you really quickly what you're not going to allow is for your company to have operations that are perpendicular to your values yeah because your team members do not separate you from the scheduling company it's all you right it's all their experience of their leadership and so it's you endorsing this type of

action and you're not okay with that this is not about you being a dad i mean i don't mind giving like a i don't mind giving anybody you know an advance if they have a problem and i figure out how they're going to pay back so it doesn't hurt them and they can pay their bills but at least i have control over that this this is going to be willy-nilly it's like giving a cookie to a mouse yeah no we're not we're not going to do

it andy you got you got you're on the right track you know what you need to do you just need to follow through with it let communicate to your team members come up with the new plan they know their schedules for two weeks they're fine two weeks is plenty of time for you to get something else in place uh but nothing is worth you having your company run your your business run in a way that's perpendicular to your personal values that's why

you started your company is so you could have a company in line with your values and and you need to stick with those great question though i'm sorry that happened man that stinks great question sometimes yeah it does uh blake is with us in texas good afternoon blake uh real quick man you have about a minute and a half uh ask your question a question to christy hey how's

it going guys um i me and my

fiance are on baby step two uh and we started this about a week and a half ago uh we're down to just the vehicles and the house but you know we're putting the house back and whatnot but

i'm looking to start

my painting company back up again i had it a while back a couple years ago i started it and then i felt miserably probably because the way i handled money before i found dave ramsey and listened to what he had to say and every everyone in his his studios had to say and started taking that all in and me and my fiance have been talking about me starting it back out but i have a full-time job i work 10 to 12 hours a

day and i make about 60 000 a year where i'm at um and i need a i'm trying to figure out where at what point i can actually

stop and then start something new like that um to make it your full-time job to make

it my full-time thing without harming my family uh being my fiance and my my 10 month old child and how to make that transition smoothly

as possible totally i hear you here's the thing you're going to build it up on the side in every hour that you can nights weekends get creative take as many jobs as you can for a while it's going to feel like you're working two full-time jobs maybe even three because you are but you're gonna build up that income enough that it can support you financially that might mean getting creative with your full-time job

if there's any way you can back off of some of those hours or whatever your days and schedules look like from a logistics standpoint but the way we say it is you want to pull the boat close enough to the dock that when you step in the boat that side business it's not falling in the water so you need to build up that money

that's why i love doing a show with christy wright hey this is the ramsay

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show

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today scripture and quote comes from psalm 16 verse 11. you make known to me the path

of life in your presence there is fullness of joy at your right hand are pleasures forevermore pharaoh

mcgalladen says do not follow where the path may

lead go instead where there is no path

and leave a trail i like that create

your own journey and let people follow you well you know what we're going to get back to the phone calls and i got to say man you know christy today's been fun this is great this has just really been fun i i like doing the show with you you know we gotta do this more we got a lot of energy i love that about us i love

it i love me some christy right we're gonna go out to uh chicago illinois where it is code right now have a conversation with drivers drivers hey man is it cold out there uh it's not too bad it's kind of warming up what's the weather travis i mean drivers what's the weather man what's the temperature i'm sorry what's the temperature

um honestly i don't know for chicago

i'm a couple minutes out from there okay okay all right all right cuz you know y'all 40 here and you said that that's not too bad not for chicago weather what's going on how can we help oh my gosh um so right now

i work 40 miles away

i have to carpool with my friend to get there because currently i don't have a vehicle um i've got about 1500 saved up

but i was wondering if i should just buy a hooky or if i should finance a very very small

loan for a vehicle just so i can get

there safely and not have to worry about breaking down i kind of feel like i already know you guys answers but i just want a

reassurance well um i'm pretty sure you know the answer uh but i definitely do want to you know i i want to say this in america listen to me we have to get out of saying by a hooptie by a dave ramsey car and just start saying let's buy a reliable car that would get me from point a to point b that may not be my dream car

i believe in there there's power in what we say and if we say it's a hooptie it's going to become a hoop d and we're going to treat it like it's a hooptie and so uh drivers what i would definitely say is yes avoid student loans i get it oh man i'm scared if i buy this fifteen hundred dollar car this two thousand dollar car it's gonna break down on me

and you know what the truth of the fact is it might but so can a used car you know

any kind of used car i purchased a beautiful high-end luxury car christy uh about four months ago before i totally doing this winter storm and within not even a week of me having

a car the car broke down i had to take it back to the shop so i think for for for yourself man i would definitely go out there and look i would see if i can just sacrifice maybe another month or two to get that up to about maybe two to three thousand dollars and then look into a good reliable car honda you know a honda product a toyota product a nissan product uh by maybe like a 2 2000 maybe like a 2010 acura tl's are going

for right around uh five thousand dollars if you get in high mileage of about 150 and 150 on a honda product is is is

beautiful it's just now getting started so what i would just definitely do some research man um because i'm telling you right now you can find you a reliable car i saw a uh a honda accord with 200

000 miles on it uh chris and it was going for 3 200 and a honda accord 2010 that is a good

car that is a reliable car as long as you just keep the maintenance up on it so drivers know stay away from the debt stay away from the debt do not finance anything right uh the only reason why i asked was because like i said um i do get a carpool with my friends

and it is about 40 miles there um

but he's going to be moving soon okay

and what i wouldn't have a ride there anymore what soon um well he doesn't really know honestly but he's trying to get it within the month okay within a month all right cool so then start looking start looking now you have fifteen hundred dollars you can find something uh and just start looking you know but no i'm not going to tell you anything are there any public transportation options from where

you are are you going into the city is there anything like that uh i believe so i think there's a train but i don't know uh the scheduling for it yet because i work overnights well the only reason i'm asking is because here's what here's what i don't like anthony i don't like in anything in life when i feel like i have two bad options and and

so a car loan bad option or no

car bad option so what i would just encourage you to do is just explore all your options get super creative you still may not end up going one of those routes but it's going gonna make you feel more empowered to go i've got five options and i'm gonna choose the best option of these five options versus i've only got two i'm painting in a corner i don't like being in that position

i don't think you do either and so if you look into this and you realize okay the person i'm carpooling with it's actually going to be two months so i've got more time and oh by the way whenever i looked into the train schedule they do have a training schedule i could hop on that buys me another couple months well how much could i save in four months well maybe

i could save an extra four grand well now you're looking at a really awesome five thousand dollar car man look how your opportunities have opened up just because you explored outside the box of your two bad options it seems like right now so i would just i would write it down look at all your options what realistically are we talking about with this carpool friend what are

the terrain options public transportation options is there anyone else in your area you could carpool could you put something on your neighborhood facebook post go hey does anybody work in the city i go this way would you ever want a car pool uh just get creative get a little scrappy and that's gonna give you more options to choose from and that's always a good place to be

i love it thank you for doing it uh saying that christy uh let's oh man chris let me ask you this question in your and you're from your expertise

when people say they want to borrow money to start a business what do you tell them well i tell them no i know that comes as a huge shock to you right now here's what i'll tell you that i see when people ask this though i see one of two things either one they have been told or somewhere along the way they believe that they have to borrow money to start business yeah

and they believe that's okay because they think what's not my loan it's the businesses loan so it's not really mine i'm not taking on debt it's the business's debt and they think somehow this is separate from them and i remind them that someone has to pay those bills and that someone is you yeah so it's still your debt and it's all a bad idea so they have

this belief that the only way to start is to take out loans and take up business loans and that's okay and i always encourage them you can start small grow slow dave ramsey started this company on a card table in his living room you can start small in cash flow the second thing i see and this is this is very common as well but it's just a different angle on

it there are some people that don't really need to take out debt but because they're starting this business and it's like this vulnerable time for them they're like i'm excited i'm nervous i've got this idea let's say it's a i use a fitness coach example or someone that wants to do hair it's a salon i'm so excited but but i've got to go spend all this money buy all

this equipment you know lease a space all these things they have to do yeah they have to do it ao they say they have to do it yeah like they they can't be business and i remind them that they don't really have to do that they don't have to buy those things and more often than not they don't nine times out of ten here's what they're trying to do though

if you dig at their motivation they want

to buy something to make it real to them

they want to buy something to validate it's kind of like when i graduated college and i needed some new

suits to go interview for jobs as if i didn't have any perfectly fine interview clothes i needed a new laptop bag i didn't need that ao i had clothes that were perfectly fine to interview in but i wanted to like validate or justify i'm in the workforce and do this and i think a lot of people this vulnerable stage of starting a business they're trying to validate

it and i just remind them buying stuff for your business doesn't validate it money does come on get money in your bank account when you make a sale your business is validated if you're in your garage working on a 1985 computer it's validated when money's there and so i just try to help people bust the myths pull away the layers of the lies they're believing to help them understand what

they really need to start their business which is tenacity and money not taking out a loan or a bunch of equipment you know what chrissy off subject but you know what i needed a new suit because my first job interview was in a red suit with a purple shirt i was fired

before i even did the interview you actually don't need something merry christmas i want to thank christy i want to thank our producer james child and associate producer kelly daniel in america remember the caliber of our future our financial future will be determined by the decisions we made today you made the right one by listening to the ramsay show

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you

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and i'm ken coleman host of the ken coleman show on the ramsey network joined by my colleague dr john deloney host of the dr john delony show on the ramsey network you see a theme yes we are a part of ramsey solutions and

that means we engage with you to help you get practical solutions to get ahead in the most important areas of your life if it's about your life we're here for you if it's about your money we're here for you if it's about your relationships if it's about your work we are here for you you're not where you want to be in your work you're not where you want to be in your relationships you're not where you want to be your money well that will be our focus

dr john delaney always good for

uh the opportunity to hang out together we we have a lot of collaboration turns out on our show a lot of people calling about similar things and when it comes to toxicity and not being happy in their work turns out there's some connections between that and and and your relationships and not being happy with you yes

with that person you see in the mirror yeah it's true it's uncomfortable yeah when you take it to work with you and you take it to your to your marriages and you take it to your parents you take it everywhere all kinds of data out there on that so john and i are gonna we're gonna talk about that one of the things that that might be fun

let's throw out some scenarios for people because we we on our shows we know where people are hurting right give me two or three scenarios people right now they're hearing us and they go huh i i need some help with that um man we

i'm getting flooded with calls from

moms and dads whose kids can't stay at home anymore yeah they've been staring at the screen for a calendar year yes and now you're watching bipartisan medical experts from across the country at a university hospital saying enough is enough is enough the downstream affects these kids and so how do you continue to parent your kid when they're breaking down how do you continue to be married how do you continue to love

somebody who has different opinions and thoughts about the stuff going on in the world today so relational issues and man

our lives were crazy and a mess before the last before 2020 hit they're already a mess and so this is just exposing some cracks in our relationships and our mental health and our physical all that stuff all together right yeah what about you man well i'll tell you what how about some people who want to get a bigger shovel as dave ramsey has said for years how about how about

you you're in the baby steps you're working you're going ken i i've always wanted to do this type of work can i be in the baby steps paying off debt specifically and change careers in order to make more money the answer is yes so we'll take on some of those strategic moves how about that i love it lots of people are just they're just stuck yeah they're just like man i've got a job i'm grateful for

it yep but i want more yeah i want to see meaning in my work we'll take on some of things how about some toxicity we take on how about we got a toxic boss toxic work culture just saying how about we take that on together that's right because you'll talk about how to handle that emotionally and mentally and i'll talk about hey what do we do what are

the moves to make so we always have a lot of fun i love it man i love it so let's open up the phones here we go it's a free call as you know triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go kirk is gonna

start us off in denver colorado kirk how can we help hey dr john ken thanks

for taking my call you bet

so i have a question dr john about dealing with feelings of resentment and

basically i've been married for 10 years we have two kids and we have a wonderful marriage relationship and five years ago the business that i started moved from uh where we live about an hour 45 minutes two hours away and so i've been commuting for

those five years about 800 000 miles a week

and 20 hours a week and um

initially it was a gradual thing we're going to you know move the business up there and then we're going to you know grow it and if it grows and if it happens well everything went according to plan and so now i'm in a position where i've asked her can we think about moving um last couple years putting our heads the answer is the resounding no and so as we

as a as i drive every day i'm building resentment and so i telling everything that's the death of our relationship and you know it's a comparison thing where every time she adds something to her plate whether that's you know

coaching or something extracurricular it

asks me to come home earlier or to ask

me to do something on the weekends that i don't necessarily want to do because of the

commute because of the yeah the issues

so um you said two things that that contradict each other one is we've got this beautiful relationship and two i've got this this resentment that is building every mile down the road i get from my house every time she says i need you to come home early which is a two-hour commute for you there's something bigger going on here than just this commute what what is it

uh well i think it's that

she values i feel like she values other things the reasons for her staying which is her job the kids where we want them to grow up her families here over me and over my success and

my um grind that i'm doing and

so here here's the thing i don't think that's necessarily that binary but you have you are exactly right what i'm gonna tell you is your your marriage is on um red alert right now okay yeah you

have made this into an either or she is i'm not she's forced you into an either or it's not that but um in the nerd world we call it fundamental attribution error when you get into somebody else's head and decide why they're making the decisions they're making or why they're not making the decisions they're making and then you go to war with your own explanations of why somebody else is doing whatever

it is they're doing so here's the thing your marriage is in trouble am i going to mince words with you and you again you can pipe in you can't work two hours from your house and commute every day and be a present father and be a present husband and at this point you're a paycheck and a courier and that is not that has no legs in a long-term relationship yeah here's what

i would tell you kirk you need to figure out what your professional options are that might make this better and to what john said you are projecting some real feelings that you're having onto her and i think you got to sit down and say here's what i'm feeling and let her say well that's not true but have you considered that when you ask her to move and uproot to

be closer to your work that you are asking her to do some things that she's afraid of right and so she has some very real feelings on the other side of this reality so one reality is this makes it better for you and your life easier but that same suggestion makes her feel like oh i don't want to do that instead of hey we got to be a big boy

and i'm going to tell you uh you need to be the leader here you need to be the person who puts your feelings aside for a moment and get some facts hey kirk let me ask you this what's more important to you at this point if i told you you got to quit your job today and find a job closer to home or your marriage is gonna gonna end

my marriage of course there you go i know you're gonna say that so at some point you guys gotta get across the table from one another at this point i'm gonna tell you i think you should get a neutral third party i think you guys need to go see somebody yeah and you all stop communicating and then that when you stop communicating it falls into an either or

when it falls into either or then it's you versus me and now we've gone to war and no marriage can survive that your kids don't deserve that she didn't deserve that man you don't deserve that you deserve to be connected and loved resentment i think is the cancer that will almost kill any relationship if it's not rooted out so get after this do what john said be a big man about

this come up with some other options all right wow we're just getting started folks don't move more of your calls about life this is the ramsay show

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providing you hope for a better future and practical steps to make that future a reality this is the ramsay show i'm ken coleman ramsey personality host of the ken coleman show on the ramsey network joined by my colleague in studio today he's dr john deloney host of the dr john deloney show also on the ramsey network it occurs to me that people must hear that and go wow

you spent a lot of time and money on those show names it is a lot of creative hours of people in the room and man i'm you're probably like me i had so many awesome kit like the laser show i mean i had so many cool laser show i would have liked that the laser show with dr johnson would that be feels like a vegas actually see yeah like

you would be on a stage with lasers i just had so many great titles glad we didn't go with that did not work out all right folks we're here to take your calls uh we're gonna take your calls on money we'll take your calls on your relationship mental health emotional health we'll take your calls on your work are you doing work you love uh do you want to move up get that bigger shovel you're dealing with some toxicity at work uh john

and i can combine a lot of these and we will speaking of uh how many of you out there right now are in a position maybe because of the pandemic that you are needing a better job or

maybe you are listening right now and you're saying hey i want to make a transition so that i can move up the ladder i want to get that promotion if that is you or you know somebody that is in that boat i'm very excited john to announce that uh ramsey solutions and myself are combining again

for the second version of get hired we did this event in june last year in the middle of a pandemic trying to help people who are displaced here's where we sit there are 16 people uh unemployed for every open job in the united states right now that's a shift from february of last year where there were more jobs available than people who were unemployed so we are relaunching we're bringing it back for a second uh spectacular night april the 27th 8

eastern 7 central time i'll be live here with a a small and really fun vibrant crowd here at ramsey solutions headquarters and we'll be beaming this all around the world tickets start at twenty dollars so think of if you've got three or five people in your life that need this that'd be a great gift hundred dollars in your budget this month will give people the edge because

the economy is warming back up but it is still very competitive so we're gonna go through the first three stages of my seven stages to meaningful work get clear get qualified and get connected all for the purpose of getting hired it's gonna be a great event again get your tickets at daveramsey.com

ticket start at just 20 that's

daveramsey.com it's going to be a really really fun night so tell everybody you know that needs wants to move up

move on in their professional work it's gonna be a great night this may be awkward but i probably need to get one of those uh tickets oh really yeah looking for a new job i don't think i'm doing very well i think it'd be great to i think you're doing teach me how to get connected i think you're doing quite well hey i have a question um

just a personal question on that last show you you've handled this question way more than i have do you have a recommendation a recommendation for for folks for families on how far somebody should commute to a job you know well there's no set answer yeah but it's a philosophical answer so i'm not going to say it's 90 minutes or two hours whatever i think it is when it begins to go from okay we can do this we've adjusted to

this to this is putting a strain on our family gotcha and that requires intentionality intentionality and communication we got to talk so it might be okay for six months it might have been okay for the last six years now the kids are older they're in more sports so i'm gonna leave that open to say i think as a married couple if we're in tune and we're paying attention to everybody in

the family and for whoever the spouse is whichever one of the family unit is doing the long travel and so they're not there as much versus and the other person who's having to do more everything so it's gone more and doing more right whoever's gone more okay who's how's that affecting everybody because they're not there they're leaving earlier getting home later whatever and then whoever's having to do more as a result of

the one who's gone more if it begins to now this is a strain we need to adjust you gotta adjust yeah that's my formula how does that fit with the uh mental and emotional health i i've i think i think most people don't um do the hard work of sitting down with somebody they care about and express how they feel about something um i think it we avoid hard conversations for

so long that you just keep getting in the car and driving and i think most of us don't actually know what it is that frustrates us what it is that's driving us what feelings we're actually having about stuff and so i get home and i'm frustrated at my kids or i'm frustrated after this or actually i'm frustrated that i miss folks and i've been driving for 45 years

you make a very good point and i want to add to my answer because you just addressed something it's not just the strain on everybody else but if your heart's hurting too much that's it right that's what you just described because eventually that's going to come out the way you describe you're angry at the world and yourself and eventually i think you're angry at yourself my heart's hurting yeah i'm doing

this to me you know i got to that point i'll tell you early on when i did the first version of the ken coleman show back in atlanta i was uh on a local radio station monday through friday and i was doing the 5 to 7 p.m slot while the kids were three i had three kids under three well you know this yeah it was 45 minutes away

i got home at 7 55 maybe 8 o'clock i

missed it all they're already upstairs stacy was getting them out of the bath someone was asleep and i got to tell you after six months of that my heart was hurting those are the magic moments you don't get those back yeah so i went to the station general andre i said would you be open to me moving from five to seven to three to five and thankfully

they were that's cool and you want to talk about a game changer yeah your marriage works better your connection with your kids works better and then you get to settle into that that's a real life example yeah mine i've always worked very close that's just always been a thing i want i want to be one or two miles from home and i agree now i've got more of a commute

and do your thing we're just having to adjust right and some families are fine we have some good friends uh that live in our neighborhood here and he works in atlanta and every sunday night he drives atlanta comes back uh on thursday gets home before the kids are home uh so late late thursday afternoon it's working right now i talked to him last year how's your heart

he goes we're good man we're good so if you know some people can do it right

but when your heart hurts where there's a strain that's when you know we got to make a change that's right love it triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number triple eight eight two five five two two five max is joining us in the big apple new york city new york max how can we help hey guys how are you today well we're having a blast how can

we help you all right um so i recently just got married uh last year my wife and i were 27 years old we both worked um and we've been renting in manhattan for about five years now and i'm sure as you guys know we pay you know you pay an arm and a leg for rent in manhattan so uh you know we started talking about purchasing a home

and we make pretty decent money together we have a nice chunk of savings combined and we're just kind of lost as far as how much house can we afford what's your income tell me your take home best as you can tell me our take-home uh it's tough because everything gets taken out automatically we do like 210 combined gross okay 210 gross

all right and how much do you have in savings uh between the both of us it's about 830 000. whoa now when you say between the both of us uh oh do we have separate accounts here she holds the ball well you guys got a a pronoun problem here y'all are married so that's y'alls savings yeah you can't you can't separate that brother yeah it needs to be joint accounts you said how much 8 30 about about 8 30.

the notion that you know she doesn't want to start her home she wants to just be in the big house and call it a day and i'm looking more for let's cut it back by a couple hundred thousand let's grow our family and start and you know we could always move up if things go well for us all right well we gotta handle this real quick i'm gonna let john address that real quick

the communication piece here's what we teach at ramsey solutions okay that you uh you need to the amount of house you can afford and should afford is 25 of your take-home pay but now you've got 830 000 in the bank do you have any debt yes or no no okay great then there you go you got a huge down payment you guys you guys can get house

but i would still be conservative 25 of your take home pay john and sit down

and don't let this deal be a deal breaker between we want the big fancy house in the in the starter house y'all sit down and have an honest conversation with one another about what you're trying to do i'd much rather see a young couple like y'all be out of debt buy a house you can afford and have no payments you got a big down payment you can dump on

there and then grow your family over time move up in house as the market allows yeah get on the same page you guys are in great shape congratulations big down payment be conservative then grow all right don't move more of your calls coming up this is the ramsay show

[Music] so

[Music] welcome back this is the ramsey show coming to you from ramsay solutions worldwide headquarters in nashville thrilled to have you with us dr john deloney my colleague joins me ken coleman we are ramsey personalities we host uh shows uh entitled uh the same as our name what is the word eponymous uh what's the word what it's it means the same is the name the same you know what i'm talking about that's a very fancy word i'll look

it up later i it's like a word you just said but i can't pronounce it i'm not sure yeah kelly's a word nerd uh what is that word can you look that up do you know what i'm talking about it's uh eponymous how eponymous

hippopotamus hippopotamus hey folks

we're doing it live here every once in a while you throw a word out and you're like i think i said that right but i'm not sure and i care enough to address it but uh nonetheless what i was meant to say is he's the host of the john dr john delony show that would have been easier it would have been easy and i'm the host of

the ken coleman show on the ramsay network and so uh john talks about your mental and emotional health as well as relationships i talk about doing work that matters deeply to you working on purpose which by the way coincides with living on purpose so we also talk money as well because this is ramsay solutions and the ramsey show so we're gonna talk about your life how can

we help you triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to san diego california next where jacinta joins us how can we help hey dr john

ken thank you for taking my call you bet

uh me and my husband we are on baby step two we are 69k in debt we have four kids under eight we are a navy family my husband's a sailor and i myself am looking to just make my shovel bigger i

i have my bachelor's degree um i did that while we were stationed in virginia for a while and raised the babies got my bachelor's but now i'm looking to just kind of advance a little bit and apply it to the accelerated nursing program i it should take me about three years i have some core nursing courses to take and then the 24 months of the nursing program to do okay so what's your question

um my question is if i should even do it

we have four kids uh my husband's in the navy he deploys next year most likely and nursing school is just a ton of work i you know i know what it takes my friends went through it and i'm nervous about it but i i know i could do it um we do have help of the family back home here in california and i'm wanting to use a gi bill um like

i said we're 69k and get so and part of that is a student loan which i will never ever do again i'm not even thinking about that so um thinking the gi bill might help us a ton with that of course and then that go ahead well here's the deal do you want to do this because when you don't want to when somebody calls up and asks

you this question i i can give you thoughts but when someone says should i do it that means you've already got a thought you've already got your answer you might have two answers you might have a head answer and you might have a heart answer what do you have one answer do you have a head answer and a hard answer and what is the answer what is your answer well to be honest

i want to just make my shovel bigger because being a stay-at-home mom i work at target right now i make 15 an hour i'm getting minimal hours maybe 20 25 and i want to do better for myself you know i've been a mom my kids are all under eight i've been maybe why if i want to kind of put myself first uh my head goal is to be director of nursing

and i know that's going to take some time okay hold on so here's the deal you want to be director of nursing this isn't just a job for you gave me the just a job i want to make more money i want a bigger shovel i want to do this this and this for my family that was the answer you just gave me but i want to know

the hard answer when you choose nursing i think you chose it for a specific reason and when you say things like i want to be a director of nursing i want to lead other nurses is essentially what you're saying there's a why behind that tell me the why um to make more money okay so it is just a job it is just a job this isn't work that you're deeply passionate about

you don't have a deep desire to be a nurse it's not something you've always wondered about yes or no yeah but i've never really got to explore what i'm passionate about i mean i've worked a little part-time jobs and i don't really know i'm more of a mom and that's kind of been my main passion i think you do know let's take nursing out for a second

let's take all the things you've just really done a great job of laying out all the things you got to do and why you would do it and there's a good economic case that you've made but here's what i want to know i want you to suspend your brain just for a few seconds if you knew you could not fail you didn't have to worry about child care kids

it was just this fun work adventure everybody was fine in the family everybody was taking care of it you could go do this work and you didn't have to commit to it for the rest of your life but it was going to make you more money and you were going to be successful at it what would you try

i know i want to do something in the medical field but you're right nursing i don't know if i can do the hands-on with the patients i've been a cna in that kind of so here's the deal i'm going to push you a little bit so i'm going to push you because you're really doing great your heart's starting to reveal the answer what would you do in

the medical field forget about title forget about how possible it is what would you do big fun adventure ken and john get to put me on what would you do in the medical field hands on go say it

i would be director of nursing i would do it i want to do that okay so should you want a leadership role i want a leadership role yeah i want to do the hiring part i want to do the office all right hr i want to work in a hospital i want to work with you know people that help but in order to get them to help

you have to hire them you have to direct them in the right space and lead them and i want to be okay i'm not part of the end of that so here's the deal so here's the deal we got all the way around came back to it and you just blurted it out i want to be in the medical field i want to be hands-on but you're more not

the medicine but you're about the people right yeah great so here's the deal yeah

you got to become a nurse in order to eventually hire and lead nurses so the answer is yes but here's what i don't want you to feel the pressure to do you don't have to do it right this second right maybe maybe the question with you and your husband tonight over dinner or a date on the weekend john i want you to jump into this is when is

the right time to do this with the kiddos you do have the child care feels like you've gone through a lot of these things you do have the gi bill which is huge for you and you can start to make progress now

but i would just make absolutely sure when is the right time to do this but my answer is your answer right which is yes you should do this don't doubt it the question is when and how jacinta as your husband is getting deployment orders and you know he's going to be going overseas next year how much are you feeling in your heart that he's doing this big huge thing and you feel like i'm just a mom and

there's 69 thousand dollars that i could be helping on he's going to do this dr john you're good that's exactly how

i've been telling you so listen your husband's a stud you know this right yeah he's listening right now on his way home he's a stud on behalf of your family on behalf of his fellow soldiers and behalf of my kids who he's never met and ken's kids who he will never meet and you're a stud yes you are

taking care of four humans under the age

of eight i would call you a superhero that's a weather event right every day yeah and so do you guys

have 69 grand between the two of you yup do you have it yeah you do do you have to solve all that like ken said right now no there is an industry that exists to make

moms of all types feel less than oh you want to be a full-time mom you should be working oh you're working you should be at home or oh you only have two kids you should have 11.

one is his type r he has a sports car that i'm like sell your car but then i feel like maybe he deserves it but then it would help us um that's our lowest oh he's listening right now you just dropped uh that was very well played well played yes you should sell the car charger sell the car sell the car yeah but listen listen

he married you because he loves you you're a great mom you're a great um soldier's wife we need

you as much as we need him put the guilt down y'all come up with a plan together to pay this debt off over time i don't think four kids and a

deployment is a great time to go back to grad school does it make that's gonna be a wild ride but you can't do it but it's gonna be busy hang on jacinta kelly let's give them a free trial to ramsey plus you two need to get together get into ramsey plus and get

get together on the process of financial peace and get that baby step working work those baby steps and get out of debt and get on the same page with your vision before you know it that 69 000 is gone and you guys are doing what you want to do sell the car sell the car ramsey show continues in just a moment

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney as we take you through this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five what do you need some help with you need to get something off your chest come on uh the doctor is in and then uh i've got

an opinion or two as well so it's a nice combo we'll talk about money we'll talk about emotions we'll talk about work how about all three of those money work mental emotional health parenting schooling parenting the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it which is awesome how about this one i get this one a lot john have had in the last week on the ken coleman show had two couples call in together

because i've been telling them hey because i get a lot of spouses will call in saying hey my spouse is not happy yeah they're miserable at their work they don't like it they feel down they've been they've been out of the workforce for a certain amount of time they're depressed blah blah blah you know and they're trying to help so we'll get them on yeah because on

the youtube i'll go i'll tell you what play this back i'm going to talk to them what's their name i'll look at the camera all right larry listen to me yeah you know what i mean love it and so we'll do that today you know if you need help connecting with a spouse well i love it how do you encourage the spouse to do give them that nudge of confidence how do

you help them but not push them that's right that's a tricky thing too so we'll take it all well and if you've got a someone who loves and cares about you and you've given them permission to speak into your life can this happen to me this week i was walking through our bedroom and my wife stopped me and she said you will stop talking to my husband like you've been talking to in

the last two weeks i slipped into just some negative self-talk running my mouth about myself and she said stop stop i love that guy

and you're gonna quit talking to him like yeah boy it was just a good call yeah man i've been right and i wouldn't have heard it i would have just thought my thoughts were right because we always think our thoughts and our own emotions and feelings are right and i got to snap out a little bit and yeah so yeah i love it when somebody calls and says

i love somebody who i'm sharing a house with and they're not good i don't know what to say i don't want to help them right that's a tricky situation that's right i love it yeah so we'll take those calls as well all right caroline joins us in greenville north carolina caroline how can we help

hi dr john and ken really appreciate you

taking my call sure um so i'm calling

because i'm feeling a little bit burned out and i need some advice um basically in a nutshell i'm

i'm 52 my husband's 55 we have two girls

one is about to finish college and the other one is going to college in about a year

um we have in

during the pandemic we've managed to pay off our house wow i know i know and um

i'm a respiratory therapist so i travel um so that's part of my thing that i want to talk to you about um i try to stay close to home i go to

south carolina i go to a middle part of the state and work in the hospitals there i also last year worked up in dc for about three months and in

between i would come home for a few days and then get right back out to it we were so focused for two years trying to pay down our home and then the rental property

and the goal was maybe to pay off the other rental property and then we looked at everything and i just said why don't we just sell these two properties and then our house is paid for and then we can just breathe and we we were very fortunate we

used one of your elps and within two weeks both of our properties were sold within uh within uh um about two months

everything was completely paid off wow you are dead free i mean 100

yeah that happened in october and um

you know we've worked really hard just paying that down so basically we paid 80

000 down we were working on the next 80 000 and uh we you know so basically in two years we paid about 160 000.

and that allowed us to by selling those

two properties the house is completely what's causing you to feel like you may be burning out what's going on we have we

have really you know i have to tell you your budget app i just can't say enough about it i was pretty organized with everything we had everything down on paper but it was the day-to-day stuff like the food the groceries the good for you you know miscellaneous stuff and that has really helped us uh so anyway that

really just kind of you know ramped it up so now everything on paper looks good

we seem to be good but caroline you

started off the call caroline listen to me i'm trying to get you and i feel like you might be dodging this a little bit why do you feel like you might okay i'll tell you what it is i'll tell you what it is so i love being

home uh but i also love the money that i'm making um and my family loves it too yeah sure um so i'll just tell you in a nutshell i know what it is can i guess can i guess what it is caroline i'm trying to help you because we got we got to get to this i think your heart's hurting really bad all this travel you love

the job you love the work i'm tired well you're emotionally tired john i think her heart is just spent and can i put something else on top of you you are about to lose your last kid yeah empty nester yep yeah you just cleared this major hurdle and

this is your other daughter's about to be gone from college and you're you're not all this transition is just

whirling and turning in your soul and your home and your husband's heart and soul everywhere i have a question caroline i'll tell you can i tell you something real quick really fast okay so i work three months um

doing a contract i can take off time

and i just haven't do it and carolina

you're talking about their trip in july caroline listen to me caroline caroline listen to me i got a question for you can you afford to quit this job right now in this season of life it's a yes or no answer yes yes we have almost 400 000. caroline caroline quit

you have a limited amount of time with your last baby before she goes off to college john nailed it and that's what your heart is telling you to do your brain's going well you got a really good job you make really good money and we got lots of toys and we actually can buy more toys we get a lot to do a lot of things now we've been sacrificed for

so long i don't know what to do i don't know what to do i don't know what to do let me tell you what you need to do you need to listen to your heart and caroline your heart's telling you to quit take some time off the break yes listen once baby flies

once the last baby flies out of the nest then you can think about re-entering and doing something that's close to home but you can do something even bigger than that your husband can say yeah it's just you and me babe now what yeah that's right we're a little over halfway done here because y'all are both gonna live to be 110 yep we're a little over halfway what do

we want this to look like what kind of work we want to do do you want to go back to traveling but you guys have gazelle sprinted and if that gazelle keeps sprinting and sprinting the lions don't catch him he just dies of a heart attack mm-hmm yeah exactly so

take a breath and that's what i'm seeing in my patients my population and that's what i was kind of like oh my gosh i have got to slow down a little bit well you called because you were looking for permission john she was looking for permission i've had this call granted a thousand times on my show and i'm just gonna tell you granted permission granted your husband may miss

the the paycheck he's gonna love getting his girlfriend back he might he might be a little irritated when she tells you to pick up his socks but that's good for him that's fantastic because she's been in and out and this is going to not just it's not this really i'm not so much worried about her being physically tired john i'm worried about the emotional because there's a lot of emotional capital calories spent uh trying to get out of debt

and sacrifice and especially in a job that's all about secondary traumatic stress where you are living in the pain of other people for a profession right absolutely that wears you out where's your you can take some time to get well go for walks be with your daughter absorb that last time help your other daughter transition from college you know what i think she needs to do caroline

i think you need to set some fun new things i think you need to announce your resignation to at least your family tonight and then do it the right way which i know you will you'll be classy and leave well but john i think she needs a standing uh nail appointment or standing something they spot with the glass she's going to create something at her

breakfast with my daughter love it and she's going to tell her i know you don't want to go i'm your mom you have to it's the last semester before you go we are hanging out every monday that's just gonna be what that is uh and it's gonna be great oh i love that caroline you're rock star congrats to you and your husband you are debt-free so cool so now you can live

and give like no one else awesome stuff hey i want to thank our producer james childs our associate producer kelly daniel and my colleague dr john deloney but most of all we want to thank you america this is your show this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

coming to you live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions and broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about life i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dolone we are taking you through this hour as we answer one caller at a time giving hope

and practical steps to get where you

want to be whether it is in your money it is in your work your pursuit of purpose in your relationships and your emotional mental health we are here for you and we have a blast doing it

triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number it's toll free jump in triple eight eight two five five two two five john as i was saying right before we came on the only thing missing right now on this giant desk is a plate of barbecue

barbecue all manner of meats and sides

i think that's what this was missing but other than that we're ready to go we have all the ingredients just barbecue donuts would be good too you like donuts they're not good for you but i love them yeah i love them all right all right we'll see we can yeah barbecue would be excellent yeah we'll talk to the production we're looking at you get a platter production barbecue

and then a side of doughnuts for doctor not eating donuts man i fall asleep right in the middle of the show boom forehead down that's why i know you're getting old when food you're stuck yeah i'm out yeah you know you're old when carbs threaten your consciousness that's it's like oh boy and you're it's a multi-day event yes i i finished a no sugar challenge

ken yeah uh a couple days ago i partnered with it with a with a navy seal i was having to text him every day not a good idea not a good idea and people shouldn't partner with if i missed a day the punishment was going to be brutal so i i made it

my life philosophy is don't ever fall off a wagon but occasionally you got to park the wagon and step off of it how soon after the challenge was over did you get sure i made myself go two days so two extra days and then i went for it and here's the thing what was the moment what was the thing you cheated with i did a speech for a group here and they gave me like a fish bowl sized bowl of gummy candy and

marshmallow products of all sorts it's it's my it's my okay sweet spot as you would say yeah not not where i would have gone with it but that was you when in rome they gave you a bowl they gave you a bowl of of and as i was sort of eating it yeah i thought this isn't just going to cost me today and tonight it's going to be a multi-day affair

because i'm old it is true i'm old it is true well you're not going to take care of your body no doughnuts just barbecue would be awesome yes all right well i'm sufficiently hungry let's go help some people let's go to ben who joins us in pittsburgh pennsylvania ben how can we help all right gentlemen thank you so much for taking my call you bet well my question is

this uh i'm 27 years old i live at home still i'm

on baby step two uh the only debt that i have is my college loans how much is that um it's about thirty five thousand dollars um it's kind of a sticky situation uh i was

at another university before i transferred to the university that i graduated with um and after graduating from there i received a letter from the federal trade commission that there was a lawsuit for fraud so it's kind of being investigated right now um but essentially enough that's not actually my my main reason for calling uh my my main reason for calling is i've

always been close with my family um i have six siblings and my my parents

are very much about helping their kids and getting them started on their feet right and i thank them so much for that however lately i've been butting heads with my father in the sense of um moving out and getting on my own i've

brought up the idea of renting multiple times to him and him being a renter himself and has also had tenants in houses that he does own he strongly persists that i don't do that and insist that i stay home and save for a house i'm kind of looking on some guidance to see if that's good advice because i'm not getting any younger you know my sister is getting married she's moving out

this year my other brother just bought a house he's going to be moving out within the end of the year and i'm kind of stuck if if i should move out and rent and and start my life or if i should ben what do you do what do you do for a living brother uh i work in i.t for a university here close to pittsburgh what do

you make a year uh right now making fifty one thousand dollars a year yeah move out tomorrow yeah okay you're i'm gonna say this as nicely

as i can because i i trust you that your dad's a good man and and i love that you are connected as you are to your family your 27 year old man making 51 000 a year your dad didn't get a vote and if you still owe 35 000 student loans you're not in a position to buy a house and you need to get your debt paid off

and then get a down payment saved up and get an emergency fund saved up which you can go buy a cheap one-bedroom apartment start having a life start differentiating yourself from your family doesn't mean you don't love them doesn't mean you're not connected to them but that means that they're not making decisions for you because you're 27 year old man and then you're going to be in a position to buy a house down

the road you're not that's not you don't you're not financially ready for that right and that's the point that i brought up to him as a i'm like you know i could get married next year i did he

you know like that that's not an easy thing to do when you have let me ask ben a question ben i'm going to ask you a question so that you can answer and my colleague can actually dive into this okay i love this tina's both up then t

and you're both up what's your what's your stomach for telling dad what john already told you you already started coming up with more things feels like you're just keeping this thing alive and i want to know stomach uh meaning you've got the guts to look at dad and say it exactly the way that john said it is it a one is it a five is it a ten where is

it on a scale of one to ten one being i'm terrified to do it it makes me sick to think about it ten i'm ready to go i just needed permission um i would probably say it's about a five or six i could tell them but you know i mean we've been so close to the family so you look for that approval wait a second wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

i got one more question john do you really think that he's gonna disown you no of course he's not but you're acting like it i acknowledge john he might be a little upset and think that i think his son is not being wise are you are you the oldest i'm the oldest boy yes that was his first son so it is always a shock to the system

the first time a grown child tells their parents i'm grateful for your advice i'm going east yeah or i'm going west and that always

sends a shock away through the family system it will take some getting used to because they're not used to this they've got six kids the oldest the oldest of which is almost 30 and they're you're still living at home as though you were 16.

here's the thing asking your dad the same advice overnight you know what no he's going to say so going back to that going back to that it's great there needs to be a transition from where your parents give you their thoughts on things but not the answers on things and this is your moment let me tell you something let me say this hey ben i'm going to give enough time for my colleague to clean

this up if i mess this up but let me tell you what i think you're going to be right listen ben the very man that you are so worried about his approval if you don't do this your desire for approval and love and connection is going to turn into deep resentment i'm telling you am i right john and resentment is the it's a killer it's it's the kill relationship that's right

so if you don't do what john said you're going to end up resenting your dad because here's the deal your head heading hard or clear on what you need to do you're just worried that dad's gonna be upset with me so take him out to take him out to a big boy lunch you pay oh yeah let him know hey dad i'm really grateful but i've decided to move out i'm gonna start my adventure on my own i'm almost 30

and it's time i'm so grateful for

your help up until now but it's time for me to move on yep this is the ramsey show we'll be right back

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so

the ramsey show continues i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney and

we are thrilled to have you with us taking your calls about life whether it's money whether it is hey i'm not happy in my work i want to get a bigger shovel i want to do more i want to work on purpose or hey i've got some some mental emotional stuff i got some relationship stuff get some kids stuff get some spouse stuff whatever it is john

and i are here to help triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we consider what we do work that matters and to that note uh before we get back to the phones i want to let you know that ramsay solutions we're all about transforming lives and we want to get more people to help us do this imagine being a part of disrupting

the toxic

culture whether the money culture the work culture the relationship culture

you can be a part of it we want to disrupt the toxicity in this world with hope and practical solutions that's why ramsey solutions we have a thousand people working together to create digital products and services to help people transform their lives and if you would like to join us on that crusade we are on the hunt for many software engineers with expertise in ruby on rails java c-sharp

and front-end technologies or if you're a ux designer seo and content marketing specialist we'd love to talk with you find out about all of the available jobs by texting the phrase work that matters

no spaces there text the phrase work

that matters to three three seven eight nine that's three three seven eight nine text work that matters to three three seven eight nine to find out about all of our open opportunities all right to the phones we go triple eight eight two five five two two five atlanta georgia is where adam joins us adam how can we help hey guys what's going on

got a question for john fellow texan here but obviously we're down in atlanta hey we got to spread the love everywhere right i'm in nashville so what's what's up hey man so second marriage been married 10 years got two kids with

my first wife 16 and 14 and a 16 year old has been living with us for two years now

my wife and i are expecting any day now

and so my 16 year old

is you know we're in we're in family therapy and he is extremely jealous

and depressed and and wants to

wants to move out and and move home with mom you know with the with the uh introduction of the baby coming home so we need some tools that you know can

help us cope with this and you know some things that obviously we can you know give some tools to him as well but as of right now i mean he's he's really tuning everybody out here yeah so so the basically adam the baby's

a proxy what's what's what's beneath that how long has he been struggling now he's been struggling since he moved with us two years ago what precipitated that move why do you have to move in with y'all um expelled from school okay uh

you know alcohol and alcohol and drugs at you know 11 12 13 years old that you know nobody

nobody knew about and and when it happened he was expelled that you know so he's 16. he's 16

and does that mean y'all got your divorce was when he was about six five uh yeah about three

about three yeah divorced in 2007.

he was about three his brother was just over one years old okay so when he was three he lived with mom and went back and forth and back and forth back and forth multiple times a year from texas to michigan okay so baby's just the latest

man he's been living with who am i and chaotic systems since he has any recollection in fact before he's got recollection his body has stored this stuff all over the place this level of trauma and this level of dysfunction and so what does your therapist say when y'all go to family counseling what what where what are they recommending

well you know we're kind of pressing your therapist now we'll meet without him and then we meet with him or he'll meet by himself and you know we just haven't seen a lot of progress because he you know he just repeatedly says that he's depressed but he never he never has any clarity to that

yeah 16 year olds man it's asking a lot of a 16 year old to be clear to be able to unpack emotions

be able to unpack feelings to be able to unpack hormones to be able to unpack this what did i do to cause this this co

this chaos that's been present in my life the last 5 10 15 years that's a tall order and so

the the impetus falls on the parents in these moments to do the connecting towards the kid do they have to be accountable for their actions absolutely do they have to have good behavior absolutely all they need those boundaries those are important but to sit there and say hey you're telling me you're depressed unpack that for me that's that's hard for somebody that hasn't been given those tools over the years um what is your relationship with him

like one on one y'all are out walking somewhere y'all going shopping together you're out fishing together whatever that looks like what's your relationship with him like

typically one on one it's good

um you know we we joke around a lot

you know we go to the gym and we you know we train together uh you know we do stuff here at the house we do our yard work together stuff like that our relationship is

is good but it seems like his bond is

shifting more towards mom

here in the past you know six seven eight nine months it's just increasing and so it's almost like he he puts on a

persona where everything is fine you know he's always smiling and

you know like in good spirits and excited when he gets home from school but you know when he talks to anybody else you know i'm depressed and you know things of that nature but and sometimes every every teenager is different so i'm not going to be able to give you hey you need to go do this this and this but i will tell you there are some situations where teenagers are will are looking for ways

to connect and if him saying hey i'm depressed

hey i i i'm not doing well is that's what it takes to get the people who love him in his life to stop and look him in the eye and say hey how are we doing then they'll do that or he's

actually struggling and does not have the words to put into context how much he's hurting my guess is it's been going on a long long time and he's continuing to look for different behaviors and so you're right to press your family therapist you're in the right place i would be telling you to go do this to go find a professional and if you're not getting some concrete things that can help heal that relationship now or to help you connect with him

now then get another therapist find somebody's gonna give you some practical tips to help heal this relationship um and man if if moms

if mom's a safe place for him to go i don't have a problem with him going back to moms if that's where he needs to be to be successful right now ken you've got two teenage boys

what's it like trying to get them to connect their their their words with their what's going on in their heart and heads uh it would be like trying to sandpaper a

bobcat's butt telephone booth i don't even know exactly right that's hard enough it's tough it's it's to the point where you they're only going to tell you what they want to tell you um and you know more about this you know we're learning too that you know at that age they can't even articulate that's is if we think they can because they're 15 or they're 16 and they've got all kinds of words

but then when they have to actually confront their emotions and then there's this you know what are they going to tell mom and dad versus what they'll tell friends

um and i can tell you from our journey that we can never truly predict although we have learned that there are circumstances and and moods and ways that we can get them to a point where they will open up to us they're still deciding it's not like we sit and go tell us and there's no great technique you know that but it's hard and i think what i was going to ask you in this situation is i feel for this this this man um how do the parents stay

healthy and we're going to break but maybe something to talk about is at some point how the parents stay healthy when their kid's not healthy that's tough you've got to make that priority numero you have to you got to be okay with them not being okay that's right and that doesn't feel very parental right when we come back let's talk about some of these words that kids throw around all right we'll tee

it up hit us differently than it may let's do maybe experience yeah let's do that all right don't move parents pay attention maybe get that teenager to listen in with you right now i don't know we'll see what's going to happen this is the ramsay show

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined this hour by my colleague dr john deloney and uh as we went into our last break we were talking to a dad a mixed family uh situation going on uh

different different uh biological parents and for second marriage all this kind of stuff and he's just really uh he's really hurting for his 16 year old and uh who's telling others yeah that he's that he's got some depression going on but seems like their relationship is he recounted to you pretty good he feels like things are good but he's hearing this over here it's confusing and then

i can just tell you uh as a non-clinical guy here as a dad of three teens um boy i tell you what you just hurt when you feel like your kids are hurting and so as we went to break john i said to you i said you know i think it's so hard for parents to learn how to be healthy when their kids aren't healthy or another way of saying

it is how does a parent be okay when your kids

aren't okay and i'm not saying you're okay that things are rough in their life of course you're not but it's like how do you keep things in perspective and john i'm asking that yeah i'm asking that too because you know it just happens teenage being a teenager in 2021 has got

to be brutal i gotta believe it's way worse than us what we had yeah so one of the things that i would tell

all parents is what you just said your kids can't be okay if your marriage

isn't okay right and we often get that mixed around and so couples will break up into into t like workforce mode right to make sure the kids are doing these things and what what gets sacrificed on that altar of our kids are busy and they're doing things and everything's exciting and they're happy is our marriage and you gotta invert that you and the person you're married to you've gotta be okay right

and then and only then can your kids anchor into that that solid foundation but i think as as the last caller was was was speaking i was thinking man we

we've got this passing in the night of we're all using the word depression it means something different to a clinical person it means something different to a dad who's got some guilt about a divorce he's got some guilt about a frustrated kid 14 and 16 year old and now we got a one a new a newborn baby from a new marriage is coming all this stuff has happened at

the same time and then you get a kid that man seems like things are great when we're around each other but then you go tell other people i'm depressed right so the first the most important thing that um that family's doing that is right is they're sitting with a with a family counselor how can we work through this with a professional we got now we're gonna have a blended family

and one of the one of the things i remember one of my counseling professors dr aretha marble one of the most brilliant women i've ever had the opportunity to to know said when when you have a new kid coming into a situation always rally the older kids with the words your your brother your kid right

give them some ownership and some participation in this not so much there's jealousy not so much that there's a burden here with that last dad was immediately saying hey my kid's frustrated because he's jealous man it's so much deeper than that right these kids these teenagers are desperate

to heal that chaos and that that frustration and that burning why did my parents get divorced the first time why do i have to choose between these two parents now you're bringing another kid in what are you doing it's 20 20 right oh and i'm just going to stare at a screen all day too right it's all of that so parents you got to

stop asking your kids to to speak like adults sometimes they

don't have the language to articulate their emotions and all of their feelings and all of this and that's they can communicate with connection they can communicate with can we just go play ball can we just throw i'm not going to ask you more questions i'm not going to give you more advice can we just go ahead can we have breakfast together i'm going to make you a breakfast with me

you can sit in silence good will hunting style we can ride this out in silence but we're gonna do this and i'm just gonna tell you i love you right if your kid is experiencing hopelessness if your kid is experiencing helplessness if they used to be really good and find things really exciting suddenly they just fall off the map that's when you know hey we're in some we're struggling here yeah dig into those relationships with those kids right

and if you do all of a sudden if you have a 16 or 14 year old and all of a sudden you find out hey we're having another one yeah man get way ahead of that right get way ahead of that if your kid tells you i want to go live with mom and mom's safe sitting all right mom and if yeah it's not your battle to lose man

you want your kid to be safe and be okay so there's a lot of mess there man but at the end of the day make sure your marriage is whole make sure you're good and don't give up on these kids yeah good stuff there all right let's go to new york city new york where alexandra joins us alexander how can we help

hi i wanted to first thank you both for uh taking my call and speaking to me today i really really love the show and love all you guys thank you and dr john congrats on your recent show i've been enjoying that as well thank you so much i only got about three listeners and so you're one of them so i appreciate you sure you have way more than that

anyway so what's up my question

yeah my question for you both is um

how can i feel more secure about money i'm 32 years old i was always a spender um coming out of

college as luckily able to not have any debts thanks to father paying for my tuition and really started above where a lot of my peers were but lived always paycheck to paycheck moved out on my own with no cushion or savings and basically spent most of my 20s doing

that and um was able to actually reverse and

learn to budget and save up a good chunk of money in my mid to late 20s about three years ago

but um ended up due to

some unforeseen circumstances with a bad

um apartment where the landlord wasn't able to provide a healthy living environment um

made me use a chunk of that to move and living on my own i just spent all my feelings away just because

i ended up going through like a depression of some sort um i released the money i had saved up and it ran out before i knew it and fell back into that paycheck to paycheck cycle since then i've worked with therapists and i feel like my mental health has improved but it wasn't until a year ago when the pandemic fit that i feel it was the worst and

best thing that could have happened to me um yes uh worst case scenario happened

with uh work-life balance lines has blurred

but um you know it really got me to focus on my finances um i got furloughed temporarily for three months starting in april so i was able to save a lot of my unemployment up until then and coming back from work

uh in july i was really able to

make a decision to move out of new york city alexandra alexandra alexander we only got about two minutes before we got a commercial break and your question is how can i feel more secure about money so do you have any debt i know you were debt-free coming out of college have you acquired debt are you still debt-free uh i have a 3k in

debt um just from a zero percent credit card that i bought a macbook computer in all right so you guys could pay off okay tomorrow i have 24 000

in savings okay so here's the deal um alexandra alexander here's what you do you got 24 000 in savings or you're back working correct yes and i've increased my job since my

my income increased 50 percent great so here's the deal since november the way you feel more secure about money is to understand who is in control of your money and you are in control of your money once before you have saved up a lot of money you went through a tough season of life and you spent all of that savings but now you're on your way back you got 24 000 savings you have figured out how to do this a couple times so you've got to work our ramsey solutions baby steps and so take 24 000 you need to cut a check tonight you need to pay it as soon as this phone call is over and so now you're going to be down to 21 000.

so now now you're now you're almost done with baby step three if you want to go to six months i would why not go ahead and really save you know get really secure you want more security have a bigger emergency fund we recommend three to six months so you're ready so that's how you feel more secure you follow the plan and uh goodness gracious i'm so excited i've

i got the baby steps all mixed up i know what they are john but she's there right there she's a baby step three now she can say fifteen percent that's baby step four and for income and now she's she's a young lady she's gonna be uh a network millionaire if she just keeps on saving folks security comes with a plan keep

security with discipline keep doing the right goal just do the right thing and security comes your way all right don't move more of your calls coming up this is the ramsay show

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[Music] welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by dr john deloney as we take your calls about your life triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to david in cincinnati ohio david how can we help

hey gentlemen how you doing today we are loving life what's going on that's awesome i have a question for you i'm i'm kind of in the process of need your guidance on going about um probably

how do i search for a new career is there suggestions that you would have that uh maybe like uh i don't know if there's

like an attitude test or things of that nature that would just give me some ideas of different career options about my job to get into sure uh let's start with what you've always wondered about because a guy who calls up and says hey i'm thinking about switching at some point in your life you had some other ideas and wondered about some things that you might do when

you grow up maybe it was when you're nine maybe when you're 19 maybe it was nine months ago or nine minutes ago let's start there because i i'll i'll walk you through this but i want to know what you've wondered about the only thing that i've ever my only passion i've ever had has been law enforcement and i'm probably a little bit too old to get into that how old are

you now i'm 45 nope you're not too old yeah

excuse one god yeah so why law

enforcement tell me why i'll tell them guys i'll blow your theory on the water i've applied for fhp twice i've been denied both times i've applied for the city of orlando i've been denied i've applied for the city of cincinnati have been denied so guys come on i can only take so much of that before you really feel like it's never going to happen you know okay hold on hold on

i get that that's one of those things i get it you're just stuff you know i get it and i understand you're a human being i know you are i was about to say you're discouraged but you're also wrong and and i don't want to beat up on you too much because you're already discouraged but let me tell you something uh 45 is not too old there's no manual there's no unwritten rule throughout

the united states where these local law enforcement officers or even federal law enforcement are saying well 45 is too old and and so but let me tell

you this if you feel like you're too old you'll act like it's not an option and you won't stay with this this is a tough field to get into uh you're talking to a guy who got into broadcasting uh starting at the age of 33. so i'm not

going to allow you to keep telling yourself this but let me i want you to answer the question that i asked you i'm going somewhere with this why sure do you want to be a law enforcement officer

the biggest reason is i like the diversity i like to get some opportunities the i like to

uh i like that it's

it's not you can yeah you can stop on the side of the road and help somebody but there's also a risk there so i like i like the fact that you have the off you have the authority to stop and say hey how can i help you is everything okay along with of course enforcing law and

when there's things that happen you're the one that responds to it and it's not a question of oh you know so it's not just well yeah you could be a good samaritan but it's just it's just having the ability because it's expected because it's your job and so it's not like oh well i grew up here and and the streets were like this and now the crime's bad

and i'm gonna go out here and be the superman and say but i'm not trying to do that i just there's always something that appealed to me and i i like uh investigation um there's things about that that really appeals to me so it was always something that's been my passion yeah of course you know yes why did i pursue it years ago well i tried and

then quite frankly some of the people that i talked to that weren't upset but it probably wasn't a good idea to do when i had my children it made sense and now that my children are gone i tried it again good and you know here's what i want you to hear i wanted you to list out all the reasons why this kind of work fires your soul up

and you did a great job listing it out so what you've got to then say is is

law enforcement the only way to do that kind of work so i'm going to challenge you here to realize that it's not just law enforcement to do that kind of work what are other ways to protect people what are other ways to serve people there are functions and roles that a law enforcement officer does during the day that exist in other places so i want you to expand your mind

but i also want you to understand that you getting into a law enforcement job is all about why i wrote the book the proximity principle which says in order to do what you want

to do david you got to be around people that are doing it in places where it is happening what does that mean practically that means you have got to spend time with police officers or federal officers you've got to get to know them and they get to know you and then all of a sudden you're not just a nameless faceless person who is applying for a job

you are somebody who has come highly recommended hey let me tell you about my friend david this guy's got the chops he's got the passion for it uh and they start making connections for you they're ultimately not going to get you hired but they are going to put you in a position where you're not just somebody competing at somebody else so all of a sudden the 45 year old has a chance to beat out

the 35 year old because of the relationships john and i'm telling you that's how you get in hard to get in fields that are so very competitive you got to have that edge that relationship now i've talked to callers on the show and i want to i want to call this out who have said you don't really it's hard to get that recommendation kind of officially and

i understand that so don't go official you still have relationships and you can meet people so this is a situation where you can't get discouraged you've got to get determined and it sounds cliche but that's really the case he's not too old no and and man

when you when you call somebody and this is something man it's just become a a a challenge for me

to process personally with my family with what's going on in the country when you call two people one of which has i come from a law enforcement background i've spent my entire career working with law enforcement both both on the payroll and

and in my communities and a guy who

does has a nationally syndicated show helping people get with their jobs and your response to their feedback is instant anger instant discouragement

you've got to be reflective enough to say am i applying for these jobs and i'm not getting them for another reason or am i going to create a reason why and it's because i'm too old right i'm just gonna i'm gonna come up with the thing that i think the thing the answer is right and so what i want somebody who is is is inventing answers or

getting discouraged or getting rejected i know it's frustrating i know it's hard you got to listen to the truth when people tell you the truth hey it's not because you're too old what else is what else is holding you back right what else is leaning on you ken what do you tell folks who are struggling with rejection after rejection after rejection when they're searching for a job searching for a job what what what advice do

you give well so what we do is we retreat to clarity okay so let's get back to clarity on who i am so do i have the talent to be a law enforcement officer that's a hard thing right well but hold on but but you do a self-assessment then you get other people in your life who are truth tellers who know you well but will tell you

the truth right not the american idol mom who tells their daughter or son that they can sing and they can't sing yeah so we go back and wait a second do i have all of the required skills and talent that this job

requires that's number one can i pass the if i get into the academy can i pass can i do it you got to do that so then we move to passion do i love this work right how much do i want to do that's why i asked him what's your why why do you want to do this work let's re-clarify why

because then that gets the heart feeling good again right so we're discouraged we're down because we got passed over that's very personal yeah it is so we got to snap back yeah one way to do that do i have the chops to do this if the answer is yes check that box if do i love this work am i passionate about it if the answer is it makes your heart beat thinking about doing that work oh check that box already

and now does that work produce results that really really fire your soul like you want to do this for the community i want to protect them i want to serve them right i want to put a different brand on law enforcement i want to be this guy now we go check check check so now we're clear again yes i really want this are you going to weigh back

i know why and that gives me the juice to step back in and face rejection again because here's the deal none of us john like to be rejected no and especially about something like david man i want to do this for a long time yep and then my kids got in the way and i stepped out and i'm stepping back in he's wanted to do this for a long time

and he's really down because it hasn't happened here's the deal you gotta double down by the way kelly i meant to give david a copy of my book the proximity principle dave you gotta read this and do it uh because the reality is is that john

i'm telling you when the normal resume process isn't turning something for you will you at least try my process i know right because it works and david i want you to go find a law enforcement friend of yours yes and let them know i've applied to all these places i'm i'm missing some feedback what should i be looking for a lot of times people don't get feedback yeah all right hey

i want to thank our producer james childs i want to thank our associate producer kelly daniel i don't want to thank my colleague john delaney doctor jonathan just regular john's good america thank you for listening this is your show this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

coming to you live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions and broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about life i'm ken coleman and i'm joined by my colleague dr john dolone we are ramsay personalities we both host shows as a part of the ramsey network he hosts the dr john delony show where he'll talk with

you one caller at a time about your relationships your mental and emotional health parenting's involved in that all kinds of stuff toxicity at work hello you'll deal with some of that i mean it's just all over the board and i on the ken

coleman show we'll talk with you about figuring out what you were created to do in your work uh increasing your income

moving up the ladder for more impact that's what we talk about and we also talk about money as a result of those conversations and of course our role here on the ramsey show so what is your question how can we help you triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to atlanta georgia where david joins us david how can we help uh yes i was calling i

need to get some uh term insurance and i was trying to figure out how much to get okay tell us your situation how old are you tell us about your family situation i'm 53 and married

i have two kids that are in college okay

so uh what do they are they uh

what what's their plan are they almost out of college how young are they what are they planning to do i've got one that's a junior in college and one that's a freshman in college okay uh so she'll be she'll be graduating like after next year so okay and what is your income and your wife's income if she is working outside the home uh my income is one around 160 and hers

is about 66.

okay so call it 220ish that's safe

right right yeah um my take on that is

it you know if if and let me ask you this too before i say this what is your investment situation you have any debt let's fill out the rest of the financial picture i have i have no dad i have a uh i had i do have a mortgage on the house uh for 314 000 um

but the house is probably worth like 650. oh wow fantastic yeah crushing it okay so

in retirement i've got um probably not i'm sorry not 900 560 000. okay so at this point you are

not because of your investment situation you're not you know self-insured uh and so what you what i would recommend dave and recommend too is ten times uh your income so you know you could do that just on you if you wanted to or your wife but because term insurance with xander insurance is so affordable uh to me i would do the two million two and a half million if you want to do that i'd run rates on it on just ten times your your um your your salary as well and uh

i also think because of your financial situation i'd look at what it would take to pay off a house plus take care of your wife and the two girls or and again you're not having to take care of the girls you know one of them obviously is is a junior you want a freshman but what would you want you know your life insurance policy to do if you went much earlier than expected and i think that helps you frame up that 10x number but i think

for you anywhere between one and a half to two and a half i think is the right amount two and a half million uh one and a half two and a half million and you could also look at uh potentially a separate policy if you wanted to just run the numbers with one of our uh with xander insurance uh and you know paying off the house as well okay and and would you suggest the 15-year or the year i'm 53 so i don't i didn't know if i needed to do a 20 or 15.

to 68 but no no no do 20. because of the the you're healthy right now are you healthy pretty healthy guy yeah i'm pretty healthy yeah so here's what's great every guy i

know would answer i'm pretty healthy so i don't know if dave would ever get this detail but you and i will so let's do this so i did this two years ago uh david

okay i re-upped okay and because i was

in way better shape than i had been before and i actually for the week of the test i went like super clean yeah dropped an

additional four pounds and the cholesterol in the blood was top rate i got the best rate possible so david if you're five to ten pounds from being you know some real savings i'd do the 20 years some real savings yeah awesome do 20 because that gets you to 73 that's enough yeah the the longer you go um the longer

the longer you wait to buy this policy the more expensive it's going to get right yeah so do it now all right what do you think you you you know knocking out the cheeseburgers for the next 10 15 days before they get out there to the house well i think the catches they they kind of get you on that because they say have you lost weight within

the last you know certain amount of time so they kind of um there's kind of a catch there but um you know i'll try to left cheeseburger trust me you need the good whatever the good cholesterol is and you got to get rid of the bad cholesterol i'm telling you david you can do this man and then here's the other thing this is all rounding out in time for

the summer bathing suit season so we are saving money we're looking better in our swimsuit the wife is excited there's a trifecta of goodness here dave david you made one phone call and we made every part of your life better yeah we gave way more than you expected which is what we do here on the ramsay show we'll give you a full holistic advice we'll give you

the whole nine yards call xander they're they're her new zander insurance trust my with my two i'm with as well right that's who i trust that's who dave recommends but more importantly they're great that's who i use to take care of my family in the event that i pass away they're great and on this show i've said it multiple times i'm going to keep saying it again one of

if i look back and i think through the crisis stuff i've been involved with those usually two in the morning three in the morning there's very few people the neighborhoods are asleep and i roll into a house with my you know with one or two partners there's police officers there there's ems there there is few things on earth more harrowing yeah than sitting with somebody who's just lost a spouse

and they look you in the eyes and they say i don't know what to do next yeah because they're gonna have to go to work on monday because they don't have any life insurance they don't know if there's a will they don't know they don't know what comes next they just know that we don't have enough money in savings to cover the electric bill next time that's right

and so don't do that get life insurance

yes get a will take care of your family something happens to me the house is paid off and stacey and the kids are set i'm in that weird moment where you're more valuable dead than you are alive yeah by a margin yeah i know that's how that works by a margin man yeah the xander folks took care of us so you know what we need is we need like for

these people these large insurance policies we need some sort of uh we need to invent the old remember the old days in the uh kelly kelly daniels in a history buff like me you had the tasters for people would taste back in the day you took out a king with a glass of wine oh yeah do you know what i mean like that that was the real deal yeah

and so we need that you know you start getting you and i need some sort of instrument to check the toxicity of our beverages my wife loves me is all she does she does she does hey uh it's tax time john hey

i'm done you're done i did it did you use smart tax smart tax i did it at my kitchen table it was awesome all right well listen uh your taxes don't have to be that complicated text the word tax to 33789 to learn more

on our smart tax program text the word tax to three three seven eight nine and use

ramsey smart tax it's a game changer

what i used and it was awesome it works hey don't move more of the ramsey show coming right up

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you know healthcare has gotten to be ridiculous it puts people um you know on the brink and so it would have put us on the brink had we not had chm chm saved our life same time

financial christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget-friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians learn more today and check us out at chministries.org that's chministries.org

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welcome back america you're listening to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dolone the phone number to jump in on the conversation is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple a eight two five five two two five let's go to dayton ohio where ronda joins us rhonda how can we help hi guys um really nice to meet you both

it's good to talk to you i am looking for some advice on what to

do as far as relationship goes with money

we've been married for 36 years

and we don't do well together

in any way shape or form we have gone to

several different streams where we just did our own thing and then i tried to step back and said okay you handle it all and that got kind of scary and

he didn't talk to me he doesn't tell me anything and i looked up a little bankruptcy because he wasn't paying the house payment and i didn't know um now the tables have turned

and i make more money than he's making

and we're still not talking and i

we have been to counseling i don't know what to do anymore and we're getting too old to continue this honestly because i'm going to retire one day and i'm going to be debt-free but how can i be debt-free if we're not debt-free now when you say you're not talking uh you mean not talking at all or not talking about money i'm not talking about anything okay you talk about everything else

um mostly mostly yeah we do actually

how would you describe your relationship let's take money off the table how would you describe your relationship on a scale of one to ten one being non-existent and ten you're you're you're in puppy love no we don't have any puppies right now but yeah right actually we're probably a seven a seven a seven

because what i hear in your voice is exhaustion yeah borderline resentment

and you if i had to guess

tell me i'm wrong okay if i had to guess you're experiencing what millions of women have experienced over the last 15 25 years which is once they begin to gain that

economic independence they don't got to put up with this crap anymore and at the same time

so it's not that i'm not well the reason i'm not there is because i love my husband and i'm not trying to get anywhere and and but you are right i am pushing back yeah you're absolutely right and i know that does he have i know rhonda does he have separate bank accounts as did i understand that am i picking that up oh well yeah there's another nightmare we we finally put our accounts together and

we were supposed to be talking about it and doing things right and we ended up filing bankruptcy and and then he took his money out of the account and so

for the last several years we actually finished a bankruptcy i know like some of the only people on the planet that actually finished one and we did um

he he turned around and took took his

money out doing the bankruptcy and said i'm going to pay the bankruptcy payment and then we'll use yours for this but i don't want the bankruptcy payment to get messed up and so he took his money out and now the bank's rope has been over for four or five years and the money's still all together but the only money in there is mine yeah so and i looked up

and take the money out and do it i'm like what are you doing so i go back to him i said dear what is this bill oh well that was this well all that was this was like okay what's going on with your money where's your money well you know i don't make that much anymore so it's i'm tired

yeah i'm telling you and i'm trying not

to do well you don't try not to be tired because that's gonna it's just gonna result in you taking those feelings and that's that's that is what resentment is right when you just smash and crush and hide those feelings they just

smolder and burn from inside out right and that you can't come back from resentment it's so hard to return from that it sounds like you're married to somebody who um has all kinds of struggles is that fair is he struggling with all kinds of things over the course of your 36 years yeah that's true and

i i really am in my heart i've talked to

i can't count the number of people i've talked to over the years this is rare you're talking your marriage is a seven i'm assuming your intimate life is awesome you are you laugh together you play you share meals you share chores

and this much heat comes from

the money part that's so so rare

well i love my husband does he love you

he knows it absolutely but not enough to be honest

and open in a person of integrity and character when it comes to money not knowing that his wife is so exhausted that she's falling apart under underneath this this burden

right because if you tell me somebody

loves me then they don't

the person that's walking alongside life with him doesn't feel like this does he know that you are this exhausted

yeah and what's his response

uh we'll talk about it later nope

they're not going to disagree with the i'm going to disagree well i'ma tell you this if you walked in and i was coaching you two in my living room i would tell your marriage is at a two not a seven yeah it's not even close to a seven and and i'm going to tell you something else um i don't think this is a does he

no i think you love him i think you love a i think you love a fantasy i think you love a myth but here's the thing john i'm going to say this i love saying things and letting you clinically explain what i'm saying it's like i'm going to drop a fact you give her the formula this is not about how much does he love how much he loves

you no this is he's broken i i think he does love you but this isn't about he needs to love her better i think this this guy is really really broken and he's trying to just keep his head above water he's trying to fill a hole or maybe several holes and his money behavior and everything else john is a derivative of that that's what i think yeah

i i i don't like to characterize people as broken right but i'm sorry you're he's hurting can i say that absolutely okay um and

he's hurting big time yeah this is somebody who's been struggling with who am i my role power suddenly

his wife over time starts making more money starts getting more of a voice and at some point and this this again this isn't just this family this is it this is a pandemic of men struggling over the last 25 35 45 years of being told you are the cause of these problems not understanding what my role is not understanding what hard work looks like plus feeling my feelings plus being able to sit down

i don't have the tools in my toolkit to have hard conversations i'm gonna do it tomorrow i'm gonna do it tomorrow i'm gonna do it tomorrow and the the women in our lives the kids in their lives are the casualties here and the chief casualty is just the men right so here's the thing um

you got to come to the table with your husband at the end of the day you're going to have to make peace with a guy that you're married to you say you love him you say it is what it is you're gonna have to go one more shot and you're gonna have to say this has to be different and then you're gonna have to have what they call in

the clinical world they call your or what moment are you gonna leave because if you're not then you gotta make peace with it and then get on about your life if you are going to leave you got to have that hard conversation preferably with a professional in the room because you don't want to be making threats and and threaten to walk away but you're at a place now where you've got to make

the decision if the person in your life won't change you can only control you right and you're going to have to either say this is a guy married this is what it is what it is we're going to ride this out or you're going to have to make some other life decisions right but that's where that sounds like where you're at this is 36 years it's almost four decades right yeah

i oh man this is

really tough yep and i want to encourage every single husband listening to this yeah

check in with your wives check in with the people you are married to tonight and and here's the deal get healthy i do believe this man loves her but this isn't you and i grabbing him by the collar and going love your wife no no this is he's got some hurt and some pain and he's trying to save it and she's in a really tough situation but do not quit i wanna hug this guy i wanna hug this guy i do too do not quit rhonda don't

quit please don't quit

we're not going to quit on you we got more of the ramsey show coming right up

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[Applause] welcome back to the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dalone you need to find out for

yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsay to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from jenny in florida she says i work for a large retail company who was able to stay afloat during the pandemic

because we were considered an essential business i was very fortunate to keep my job which i love however our company just announced to us that there would be no merit increases this year not even a cost of living raise but we are going to receive our bonuses for me it's probably about two thousand dollars i really love my job but is this a red flag to start looking elsewhere what no what are

you doing jenny let me

re-read your question back to you you start by saying i love my job but our company said no

merit increases this year which by the way uh the standard increase about three percent yeah yeah uh in american business let's go back let's go back before that my large company survived the pandemic

yeah hey hello we survived many did not no and their jobs did not so we survived yeah and i love it continue and

while they're not going to give a merit increase or a cost of living raise they are going to give out bonuses

ken you and i don't agree on a lot and for both of us to be like what are you saying dude

yeah jenny i appreciate the question no that's not a red flag you ought to be running in the neighborhood around the backyard in in the living room singing in the shower i'm so grateful that i get a bonus this year while many people are unemployed so no this is not a red flag i get a bonus doing a job i love not only is this not a red flag john

this actually speaks to the viability of this company yes that they were able to give out bonuses they managed their books well enough during the pandemic to actually be in a position to give out bonuses right and it wouldn't surprise me i've got zero data this i'm way into your territory here that we're gonna see this more and more moving forward because if a pandemic can come out of nowhere

and wipe us out right and our most

expensive thing is ongoing ever increasing payroll it makes sense to me that we're going to hand you a big pile of cash at the end of every year based on how this goes but we're not going to strap ourselves with this ever increasing payroll yeah right because then we only we have to continue to increase our costs et cetera et cetera man if you love your job

and your jobs i mean you're working for a company that can navigate this and still write your bonus checks yep some result time yeah now we don't have time for co-host counseling live on the air right but you just told america that we don't agree on much that's not true i want to talk to you about that why did you say that we agree on a lot

we agree on a lot of things do we

i'm just kidding i think we do a lot but you said it not me politics and economics we love to bicker back and forth right yeah we have different views but it's not like we're you know oh i didn't yeah i didn't mean that as well be careful what you say people think that we're fighting during the commercials no no no i'm just having fun with you all right eight triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five did

you like my co-host counseling i thought that was kind of a funny line you just you just went right over we could skip the uh i didn't get what you're saying i didn't know where you're headed with it no i like that you know we could counsel each other right here on the air we should do that you want to talk about some political topics right now no no by

the way before we get to the fights you want some advice don't talk politics with anybody no especially maybe not even your wife or your kids i just think it's gotten to the point where it's like ludicrous what what is the point like the dog i think that one of my doodles would argue with me at this point if i just said something in the house look at me like you're wrong you're wrong

so much vitriol too there used to be a day where you could sit around you know a martini or a beer with some people and just talk about all different points of view and everybody like that's interesting cool yeah

not anymore man no i'm going to learn to dump your grill over and yeah me and my me and my kids were taking our ball we're going home yeah yeah so don't catch a wine glass in the temple don't talk about it at all not good anyway triple eight eight two five five two two five people that's some good life advice there triple eight eight two five five two two five james is joining us in denver colorado james how can we help

hey how are you guys doing today well we're having a blast how can we help

um so i'll try to keep it short but i've got a couple of attributes to this question so

about a year ago i uh gave a personal

loan to my girlfriend of about three thousand dollars of that she has paid back 1500 so she

still has 1500 left on the agreement

since that time three things have happened number one

because of the pandemic she had to take a different job making about half the amount of money she was making number two we both started financial peace and we are both on baby step two and number three we recently got

engaged we're getting married in about six months given all that's going on right now i

kind of feel like it would be best to just

forgive the rest of the loan it doesn't feel right to me to keep it but i'm also afraid because our relationship has always been a 50 50 partnership that it's going to

come off like i'm trying to lord over her

or be better than her um

and i also have all the debts don't pay off so i was wondering uh should i just go ahead and try to tell her not to pay it back and how do i approach that

without seeming weird

okay you sound weird you do sound weird because i would never utter the phrase my fiance owes me money in a billion years that sentence can't come out of of my mouth no i don't know how it comes out of your mouth i don't think this is a her issue this is a usu this is a wee issue john my goodness i don't even know where to start well yeah there's a lot here so

if you are not able to have a conversation that says

hey i did something stupid we didn't

know we didn't know about um the we didn't have the wisdom about loaning money to people that were in uh romantic relationships with or friendships or family right give it away or say no

dude we're not we're done with this debt repayment situation if that becomes a lording over a power

struggle man you guys got to get to a premarital counselor tomorrow right you are not in a position to get married because dude the conversations y'all be having about kids and work and where we're gonna live and family and i'm sick i need some support they get harder and harder and harder this is a simple one absolutely

when is the wedding day uh

about six months six months from now well six months from now you walk down the aisle she doesn't owe you any more money

i guess i mean i guess i guess if she breaks up with you today or you break it with her then we can talk about that but if you're getting married it becomes our money it's hourly i mean i married stacey she had a masters in broadcast journalism i married her student loans

yeah yeah so so it wasn't like it wasn't like oh i'm paying every time i wrote a check and they go well i'm paying your master's degree that's right no you're in it together so james you you said you're you're both 50 50. is that a hard

who is this more challenging for

i i feel like it would be more challenging for her um it because that has always been a great sense of pride for her right that she is

you know her own person she's making a way in the world you know i i feel like it's something that comes from the way she was raised her family dynamics certainly something that i

personally would would push back against and i agree with everything that you're saying oh well then i think you just have to have a straight up conversation here to say hey you are who you are you're you're an independent woman you're all these wonderful things i loaned you some money big deal it's going to be our money don't even think of it that way you're going to help pay this whole thing off anyway yeah and this whole 50 50 talk brother it's

0.50.50 and you're about to become one you're gonna have to get with somebody and work on that before you all attach yourselves to each other forever man and don't be very careful about psychoanalyzing your fiance you only get with the premarital counselor today yes absolutely true

all right we're not done yet folks

don't move more of your calls coming up next this is the ramsey show

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welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman in studio with my colleague dr john deloney who's uh deciding now to join us everything okay over there words with friends on the phone before we come back from commercial break gotta tap you on the shoulder and say hey you know for me he's trying to solve some things i want to point out that we did not have a plate of barbecue

we we threw that out there we thought maybe it would magically appear earlier in the show did not happen gotta have a plan evidently bobby the engineer is falling down on the job back there in the control room the guy is a world-class cook um can absolutely grill smoke

i mean he's he needs his own restaurant he does he is his own restaurant he is his own restaurant bobby i was just saying you were you were doing engineer stuff earlier it would be great during the show next time delaney and i co-host they have a big giant platter of all things bobby barbecue some sausage some brisket

some chicken some pork some beef and all

the sides or as we say in the south fixins that's

f-i-x-i-n-s for people who aren't from the south that's an actual word all the fixins do you say that in texas no what do you say beans and cornbread salad now fixins

fixin's includes anything anything that's on the table that's not an entree is a fixing and there's zero percent chance bobby's gonna share not true that's wrong hey you know what

he talks to you that way bring it in here we'll put it on this side and i'll just do the heisman and i'll just eat while he's answering relationship calls and i'll wipe the mouth and we'll get into the other stuff all right we're having fun here bobby really is a world-class cook and i really would like to have some barbecue during the show and we'll just do

it when dave's not here yeah he doesn't care uh triple eight eight two five five two two five triple i'm really getting hungry i really am no you're you started a whole thing inside my heart and mind here man exactly triple eight eight two five five two two five back to the phones we go savannah georgia uh is where we're gonna

go oh you know what i'll get to this a second let's go to uh kevin uh in savannah georgia kevin how can we

guys i appreciate you taking the call you bet um yeah yeah so to give you some context me my wife got married about six months ago uh we've been doing super good we paid off um over twenty three thousand dollars and and college debt

thank you thank you we have about 1700 left now my question is uh so she recently got a offer actually earlier today uh for a different position in pennsylvania and right now we're kind of deciding whether to stay in savannah or where we make about 80k groves or

go to pennsylvania where we'll be making about 90k so about 10 grand more um that's about the difference for the two positions i work remotely so i can work either in savannah or pennsylvania and most and to give you a little more context most of our families in the northeast and pennsylvania and new york but we have been here for six months we're plugged into our church we've been doing very very great going to life groups

and all that so my question is should we just focus mostly on the money making a little bit more money so we can uh you know start putting um you know retirement savings and start investing in our future or should we just stay here knowing the expenses are a little bit less then kind of doing that interesting so john i get these calls a lot on the game show here man

so well kevin gets to answer this i can i could say what i think but that's not what this is about right this is about us guiding them kevin there's two of you in this marriage i want to know what you and your wife give me the two separate votes your vote first her vote as it stands right now which way you lean it so great question

so i mean olivia her name uh we actually don't know we we love georgia we've been here for six months like i said we love the south we went to school um i live in kentucky and in virginia she lives in in virginia and virginia and south carolina so we love the south we think we want to stay here and raise our kids we haven't done yet

but in the future but we're super tied down we're not too sure we've been praying about i've been fasting about it this week um i just we just don't know we're not really siding anywhere well i think you just gave us a clue i think in that answer you just kind of indicated you guys really love the south and you have at some point uh maybe through

the the short six months of your marriage you guys have uh kind of imagined a life in the south am i right uh-huh okay so here's the deal uh in this situation i think you guys i love that you're praying about it you guys are talking about it i think you guys could do the old-fashioned pros and cons list i love a pencil got one right here

i love a piece of paper got some right here i draw a line pros and cons for each of the moves pros

for staying cons for staying i don't think there's any cons other than the fact that you say well i'm going to get it my wife's going to get a ten thousand dollar bump but you said there's a cost of living so i would actually run those numbers john i'd run the cost and cost a living increase plus taxes in the state of pennsylvania and i would compare

it to your current income plus your taxes cost of living in savannah that's a pretty easy side-by-side comparison you can get pretty close there and i think i would do that for your brain for your logic because ultimately after the brain gets engaged john i think it comes down to the heart that's right and kevin i know how tempting it is when you guys have a plan

and the plan probably went something like hey we're going to live here for a few years then we're going to end up moving back northeast with all the family and then suddenly you like it right and yeah you get plugged in there and moving back home maybe isn't quite what it might have been cracked up to be and we had a plan but man we really like

it here well we kind

of beat you to it so i have the pros and cons list here that a boy yeah in a very kind of macro sense so the difference is about 5k give or take so we won't be making you know crazy tons more um but we are going to be closer slightly to our family so our kind of thinking is um that she has so the the hospital

here that she's working at it's a little bit larger and the one in pennsylvania is a little bit smaller so she'll have kind of growth potential a little better over there um so that's kind of the side on that and so he might be making more maybe two years on the line how old are you kevin i'm 24 and she's 24 as well okay so i'm going to give

you a magic gift you ready doesn't matter what you do you can't lose so true you you stay for two more years she's a hospital employee she's clearly good she's gonna have another opportunity you all moved to pennsylvania and realized what did we do this was disaster parents are annoying now that we're married they're hassling us come back to georgia come back to nashville come back to huntsville alabama there'll be plenty opportunities yep

so whatever you do look at it in 24 month chunks 36 month chunks you're not tied into anything this isn't the end of time for y'all don't get this it's not a forever thing here okay trust your gut kevin i know you

called because you're like i'm gonna run this by john and ken and i'm hoping they're gonna say that one of these is the clear winner that's what he was hoping for it's not our one it's not our call because there's not a clear winner that's right and i think what you said is beautiful i'm going to tell you that that's beautiful because because i think of some of

the moves stacey and i made early in our first year we were in richmond virginia for one year and then we took a great opportunity to come to nashville well you know what you could look at and go god directed our past and he did and you know but had we stayed in richmond it would have been great too you know that we overthink these things and

i gotta tell you john i'm a fan of getting your brain out of these decisions you're free i think it's the heart you're free i think i don't listen kevin i'm having some fun with you brother but this is all positive i don't believe you that there is not a

clear winner in your heart it might be john yeah 52

you know 48 it might be one of those deals it might be really close but i don't believe that given the just let's look at it let's get our head out of this deal which he's done the head stuff the good head stuff john i don't know what do you think i think he wants to stay i think i heard that too he loves the south and

i think they're trying to talk themselves into moving across the country for five thousand i'm going to add something else to it i don't think they're trying to talk themselves into it i think their family is trying to talk them into it and it gets back to this deal we don't want to let down the people that we love the most but we're going it does make sense that anybody any normal person would want to be near their family until

you know five thousand more dollars and then you go but that's not what my heart wants that's right and my guess is she could walk into the place that she works right now and say hey i have this opportunity and i'll get a looser for 500 a month follow your heart kevin that's right i don't think there's anywhere close oh i love that you can't lose brother

you can't lose hey uh our scripture today got a little out of order because i got excited about the barbecue but hey we're still getting it in john scripture today philippians 2 3 do nothing from rivalry or conceit but in humility count others more significant than yourselves today's quote one of my

mentors former leader had the privilege of working with this man john maxwell to add value to others one must first value others

that's good i tell you what not a lot of words but a lot of depth one of the great curses of our time yeah we don't value each other enough no we don't place the right amount of value on people hey i value you and you too man appreciate my colleague dr john delay i want to thank our producer ben hill our associate producer kelly daniel and you america thank you because

we do this for you this is your show and this is the ramsay show

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you

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## 203. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 8, 2021)


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| **Video ID** | `Cuw5PXp8b8E` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuw5PXp8b8E) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:52 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave the ramsey show where

america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is the national syndicated host ken coleman uh the host of the ken coleman show the number one career show in the world and today we are really excited to be talking with you here uh on the ramsay show uh because we're gonna be talking about your life your money your careers how to

land your dream job and then once you

get the dream job i'ma show you how to get some more money pay off some debt and build wealth yeah that's how it works that is you know you want to make more money let's get you a better job people ask all the time on the ken coleman show because they know i'm a part of ramsey's illusions hey ken can i change jobs while i'm in the baby

steps and the answer is yes because i do not prescribe that anybody jump off of a mountaintop wee you know we're just going to take a big risk no no no no that's not necessary and some of you out there are feeling

like you know what you want to do but you don't know how to get there we'll take your calls on that today i'll give you a very very clear path on how to get there some of you know what you want to do how

to get there but maybe you got some family holding you back you got some money problems holding you back that's where ao comes in and we'll work through that and get you on a plan and when you get your money plan going well then you can actually move towards that dream job a whole lot faster so we're taking your calls all across the board about your life we're really excited

so what are you waiting on i think i think somebody out there right now been listening they're going all right i'm i'm gonna call i'm gonna trust these guys and if you are triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh ken coleman anthony o'neil we are here to take your phone calls and we're going to go out to boston

and i love uh boston because

we have terry out there terry good afternoon how can ken and i help

hey hello thank you both for taking my call yeah my question today is regarding purchasing a used car um i've been following the steps and

we're on four five and six and i'm you know i need a new car but i'm not going to buy a new car so my question is when purchasing a used

car do you recommend certified pre-owned versus just pre-owned that's one

do i buy a warranty on these things um if i were to do it and if i pay cash typically do the dealers negotiate um when purchasing used cars uh man tara this is such a great question because i'm actually in the middle of this literally right now um i totaled my

vehicle uh back on uh february 14th actually valentine's day and so i am in the process of doing that but here's the very first thing terry uh that i want to ask you what's your budget so i i'm not worried about a warranty i'm not worried about cpo a certified pre-owned car what is what's your actual budget that's what you need to ask yourself right well presumably i get about four for my current car i would pay a total of 18.

will will it fit in this budget and if it doesn't then you up your budget do not do that so that's the very first thing i will say going out to new york city's have a conversation with danielle good afternoon

good afternoon um i have it's a little bit complex question but hopefully you guys can help me out yeah um i um

so i i have a great job i have i work for the state of new york and um but as everybody knows new york

is a very expensive state um i pay a lot of taxes my

mortgage my mortgage isn't what i owe my house is not that much but the taxes just kill me now my wife i have married i have

three kids um i make about 75

000 a year my wife works part-time and stay-at-home mom part-time also but we we are in baby step two i have i saved my thousand dollars and i'm i just have so much debt not so much debt but i owe about twelve thousand dollars in credit card i have a pension loan is about five thousand and my wife has a student loan that's twenty thousand now the issue i'm having is because my

mortgage and the taxes my i'm pretty much house poor my money goes all in what my house is my bills

my utilities now there's an opportunity where my grandfather um i could buy his house

for really low price in florida but it consists of me starting over and um

i don't know that's it's not a right away kind of thing but it's more of a future thing is that something i should do or consider doing i don't know well i think you have to consider it because of the financial opportunity but you only consider it as that okay if we move to florida our housing all of a sudden gets way way way more affordable but what do

you want to do with your life what work you want to do do you like the work you're in you know you have to look at the whole picture how's your wife feel about it the kids are probably young enough they don't care doesn't really matter but i think since that's a long-term opportunity anthony i think daniel what you've got to do is we got to figure out how to get your housing situation better right now

this florida thing's not something that's happening anytime soon so in order for you to get out of these baby steps a little bit faster let's look at how we can sell that home and maybe sacrifice our living uh to have a much cheaper living arrangement now to make progress for the future absolutely man and sorry for going danielle man moving too quick daniel i own that one man hey

this is the ramsay show

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find healthcare coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at ch chministries.org we

absolutely believe in it

[Music]

this is the ramsay show and jack is with us in new orleans good afternoon jack how can ken and i help hey thanks for taking my

call y'all yeah i am

wondering about how to help support my

mother she doesn't need it right now but she doesn't have enough saved up to retire when she wants to and i have the opportunity to make

either a lot of money

in my future career or less money

uh the trouble is a lot of money is going to come with a lot more work and not necessarily in the doing the kinds of things that i necessarily really love doing and i'm just trying to figure out how to prioritize that so are you asking that question as if uh

which decision do i make which is best for me or best for my mom sounds like that's how you're asking that am i understanding that correctly um yeah i mean i i'm you know i'm trying to thread the needle here i want to do both i guess no i don't think so i mean you you i know you want to help your mom but you don't want to take that career path that makes a lot of money

but has a lot of other sacrifices correct yeah yeah you'd be right about that the only reason you're even considering is because you think it'll put you in a position to help your mom play catch-up correct well well i mean it would be nice i got about 40 000 in student loan debt and the benefit of that would be that i wanted that i pay it off quicker right

and you know that's nice uh but i

i'm pretty decent you know i'm pretty decent at budgeting and saving money and and so i i don't need to do that i don't think so my point is i'm trying to help you hear how you sound it because the answer to that is no you know i'm never going to recommend somebody an ao wouldn't either to to go work in a

career or go pursue something that is going to cause all kinds of other long-term sacrifices that are not necessary to be made you don't have to make those kind of i don't like it it's not something i do but i'm just doing it to uh make more money and help mom out so so that that needs to come off the table now how to help mom you know to sit down with her uh i'll let ao take that one

but i mean this is this is sitting down with mom and going hey mom we got to start to take this really seriously and where do you want to be what is that what do you want that to look like i tell you what i do first i'd have her go to chris hogan's website chrishogan360.com and i would do the retire inspired calculator just to get some real numbers it's a really wonderful tool

and then then you then she knows what she's dealing with but reality and clarity is what we need right now with mom but i don't think you know that outside of helping mom with a plan helping mom with a goal uh but you to

make a professional decision even in small part to help mom that's not on you brother that's not on you yeah i agree how old is your mom

she's uh 55 55 okay cool and she has no

savings at all she has about a hundred in retirement

so she has about a hundred thousand dollars in retirement and um anything else does she have does she have any debt right now uh her house she's got about 100 left on the house 100 left in the house 100 000 in retirement okay and then any kind of income coming in right now she currently works she's a she's a nurse uh but she she works in like a high intensity kind of nursing

and she's she's already talking about how much strain has taken on her working so hard and so i have a feeling that she's going to step down into a lower paying position soon cool well jack i want to i want to tell you man i appreciate your heart as a son i can tell that you love your mother i can tell that you want the best for your mother um

i want to echo what ken said i totally 100 agree with him but i think now is the time you just start you got to have a real good conversation with your mom i would definitely say you know take your mom out to a nice dinner man and you pay for it and say mom let's dream here where are we going in the future i'm concerned i love

you i want the very best for you um but how can we set you up to win so this doesn't impact me and my family down the road but how do we start making decisions now that impact your tomorrow that impacts your retirement that impacts your future all of our futures and just walk through the steps with your mom definitely get her uh plugged in to um our colleague here uh chris hogan

i have her go to chrislin360.com walk her through her walk her through the retirement calculator and just start figuring out what can we do to start setting her up to win uh but how you help your mom is just by having the conversation not by putting more stress onto you and your you and your family personal friendly and so that's what i definitely recommend but i appreciate your heart my brother um

and and i believe god is going to bless you for your heart but just have the conversation man all right i appreciate y'all hey no problem at all no problem at all man uh brad is with us in wisconsin brad good afternoon how can we help well question isn't for me guys

well first of all thanks for taking my call this is for our 19 year old son he was homeschooled through high school out of 30 on his a.c.t loves god volunteers at church

and he decided to take his first year after high school to work and true to his word he has been working like a dog and he's doing very well at work but he doesn't know what he wants to do he is self-taught in graphics he built his own piece he was oh we lost

him boy we're getting to the gym i know it was it was it was getting good man i was myself oh boy it was okay we're gonna try to get him back we're gonna be trying so let's set this up while we try to get him back so here's a dad whose son very bright yeah says dad i

don't want to take a gap year and i'm going to work and he has so he's busting it right and so he's what but he doesn't know what he wants to do well 19 year olds have limited life experience so what do we

want to do as parents we don't want to get concerned about that because we got a kid who's very intelligent probably done very well in school has been working he said like a dog been working hard yeah uh and so that puts him in a situation where we've got a character kid we got a kid who's got good character yeah so what do we want to do

we want to go in and get some themes and i'm going to see if we can get this from dad when we get him on the line we want to get some themes of the type of work and we already started to hear it he's self-taught with graphics and right before he got disconnected he said he likes to build and so it sounds like to me we got a kid who ao with his head

and with his hands yeah he likes to be active and creative in some form or fashion so what we want to do parents is we want to look for the themes that we've been watching these kids uh with their whole life what are the themes what do we see where they they're really really good at something ao they naturally are gifted uh other kids or maybe even

another kid in the home struggles with one issue or one topic and this kid excels that's the talent piece and then what makes their heart get real excited when they're engaged in it that's the passion piece and the last piece is what do they want to produce in the world what result do they want to put out here in the world that makes them feel like i have done something that matters deeply to me

because i see a direct result of my work that's mission talent passion mission so the way that works ao a purpose sentence for anybody parents out there looking to start this conversation with a kid here's what it looks like you were created to use what you do best that's your talent to perform work that you love to do that's passion to accomplish results that matter deeply to

you that's mission yes that's your purpose now you can fill in the details for ao it's a little bit different for me right but that's how we begin to see this and for a 19 year old when you when you got a kid you're going oh they just don't know what they want to do yet well they have a pretty decent idea you just got to be okay digging yeah you're a youth pastor for years you've had

these conversations with parents and kids absolutely but ken i'm going to ask you this question he was a smart kid very smart how come he didn't go to college i suspect i suspect because i wish dad was on the line we're gonna try to get him online i suspect it's one of two things maybe both one the kid kind of knows i'm not sure that traditional college is

the best way to get where i want to go right but that's a that's almost taboo to a lot of families yes for a kid to even say that and then the second reason is is uh i think he's wondering

deep down yeah what he really wants to

do he's trying to figure it out it's one of both so he's going i actually just want to take a year because he may be this kid who goes i just want to see what it is before i commit to something else he could be that mature it's not crazy to think that he could be that mature to go i'm not sure yet so i'm going to work a little bit save up some money

and maybe he's read debt free degree am i right i love it there's a third reason why you didn't go i wish we could take a poll right now if your kid was this smart um i want y'all to answer this out loud why are you driving in your cars while you're watching this on youtube if your son or daughter was smart and they came to you

and said mom dad i don't want to go to school i want to go work would you tell them no you're going to school or you're working when we come back we may talk about that a little bit more hey i love this one we gotta get him back on the line kelly this is the ramsay show

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show one and only national syndicated host uh

the number one career radio show in the world and i mean that i know my producer's saying in the world yeah you can listen to him on podcast can call me and uh my name is anthony host of the popular youtube show the table with anthony o'neil and before actually not right before the break but on our last segment uh brad was on the line and he was raving about his son

and just speaking highly of him and unfortunately we got disconnected so uh brad we want to come back to you and we really want to finish this conversation because it sounds like you have a sharp young man and we want to help you out however we can so go ahead and finish what you started before we got disconnected yeah well hope this

one works better thanks for calling me back yeah uh yeah our son mike our son micah is an amazing young man he's always been able to have conversations with adults he was homeschooled by his mom as are his two brothers all the way through k through 12. he is

self-taught graphic artist he has done some graphics for his youth group at church he assembled his own computer at 16.

an avid reader loves to work out

and at his job they tried to make him a manager at 16 but had to wait until he was 17 because that was their policy

and he just doesn't know what he wants to do he knows he doesn't want to take on a bunch of student debt chasing a degree he may or may not want at this time and he's got like twenty thousand dollars saved up um my my wife and i are everyday millionaires we both grew up without any spoons in our mouths whatsoever just hard work and getting after it and

it hurts me to see him not have any direction i i know if he went to a university in the people's republic of wisconsin he would get in trouble because he's very opinionated very conservative and loves the lord and

i i don't think it would go well for him so okay guys given that what would you tell this kid

well first of all i want to talk to you before i tell you what to tell him i want to tell you dad you need to relax yeah i mean i'm serious you're a good man but you need to relax you got yourself a rock star in the waiting and you're you're hurt he is i know but you can't like on one hand you just gave us

this glowing resume of your son and and i believe it but on the other hand you're like well it just hurts that he doesn't know what he wants he's 19 and he's a kid who knows enough to

say i don't want to commit to college and and go into some type of financial situation that is not sustainable long-term he doesn't want to go into debt for something he's not sure he'll use this is a kid who's actually really really really level-headed and you and your wife have done a fantastic job and i applaud you for that so number one dad he's 19.

well to back up we've already had that discussion with him good told him several times how proud we are of him he's an amazing kid and i've told them i said micah if i had it to do over again i wish i didn't go to college right out of high school i says no pressure my friend i said we

love you we'll support you what does he like to do he loves doing graphics good and

anything anything computer related he's that kid that if you have a problem with your computer you go up to him and you say you know this isn't working can you tell me why i didn't give you half an hour on why it's not working and how to fix it what is he doing now is that is that related to the job he's doing now no when he was 16 he started working

at a restaurant that it's a popular burger and fry place it opened over two years ago okay he was one of their first employees and now he's been a manager for a year and a half here's what i want you to do tonight i want you to ask him if if he knew that he could not fail but he didn't have to commit for the rest of his life what profession would

he try for fun just a fun adventure and my guess he's going to say something to do with graphic design or something technology related wouldn't you guess yes yes you're correct then let's get him in that go online tonight get him to say that and then you go awesome let's do some research together how can me and your mom support you to try several things in that area

so have him list out graphic design maybe one um i'm making this up right now

video game design too you know whatever he says and then go online and look for training programs that are online

and it could be at a state school it could be in a non-traditional uh non-college type thing could be just a a private sector training thing i tell you right now uh you need to go to betheltech.net brad right now betheltech.net they sponsor and partner the concur with ken coleman show and they're training people you ready for this in less than nine months and less than fifteen thousand dollars they're getting people ready for the technology industry and they have an eighty-five percent emplacement rating starting at seventy five thousand and up

would you would you be surprised to know that my lovely bride already brought that up to him several months ago all right so at bet at bethel and we asked him is yeah what about bethel and he said well i don't want to get a job that i can be replaced

he seems to think that kind of work eventually is going to be obsolete well if he's 19. he doesn't yeah he didn't know what he's talking about

here's the point i'm just giving you them as one option if he wants to do graphic design and things of that nature then then get him a graphic design training program see if he can get a job locally uh he's 19. he's got a good paying job

what if he shadowed a couple of graphic designers in your area what if he worked for free uh for a couple of hours a week five to ten hours a week if you will uh following something about those are the things that he needs to do right now brad and once he gets a hold of it and he tastes it and he sees it and he gets experience with it um he's going to come up with it but you've got to encourage him and and push him towards the path he's

already looking down yeah don't over complicate this yeah don't do it don't do it at all and brad also just i want to say this he's 19. let him make some mistakes you know uh don't fight him on everything that he says don't fight him on everything that he does you know hey give him let's explore yeah and just really really let him uh explore america do you ever feel like

you're always you always be stuck paying off your debt

or that you'll never have extra money to save and spend how you want if that sounds like you then it's time for a new way of thinking you have to you have to believe you can get rid of debt and take control of your money because here's the thing you can and it will not take nearly as

long as you think it will with ramsey plus we'll kick you off with 90 days of guided help so you can put more of your money back in your bank account not theirs but yours you'll learn practical ways to get small consistent wins that add up to big

huge results and better habits and that means you'll get you'll get where you want to be faster 100 debt free and spending your

money without worry this year you can let me say this again

you can make more progress on your debt

and saving than you ever have get ramsey plus and start living the life you want faster to reset your money and

to start ramsey plus for free america for free do me a favor

ashley no do yourself a favor go to daveramsey.com that is daveramsey.com right now

and sign up for ramsey plus 100

free for 90 days listen uh ramsay plus

changed my life years ago ken

um because inside of ramsay plus is financial peace university and when i took that class i was drowning in debt i didn't really understand the power of true stewardship and i mean when i took that class not only did i understand the biblical meaning of stewardship the correct meaning of stewardship but now i knew how to move forward now now i know how to move forward with my finances

and i'm telling everyone right now financial peace university inside of ramsey plus with all the great stuff ramsay plus offers you are missing out if you're not a part of this community join the community and i promise you it would change not just your life but your kids kids life but your family's life this is the ramsay show

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we have one full line just opened up uh kelly is standing by and she will um i was about to say happily take

your phone call she's always happy to answer your phone calls but she chooses who actually i'll get the makes makes it through so give her a call let her know uh the question and she will let you know if you can come through if you make it through ken and i would love to talk to you just like how we're about to have a conversation with paul in dallas texas good afternoon paul how can ken

and i help good afternoon guys thank you for taking my call yeah um so look i just started listening to the show last month we are currently on data step number two

my household income is 89 000 i'm the only one that works my wife stays home with our one year old

baby and my question is the only debt that we have is my car uh which is around 32

000 32 000

yeah 32 000 what kind of car is this

this is a lincoln netherlands

okay so you're driving nice nice what year is it yeah it's a 2019. okay yeah you're driving real nice nice nice yeah i wish that i would have

known that the baby was coming you know i would have gotten something else yeah i understand um anyways so

but but but that's the only depth that we have we don't have any credit card or anything else um but my question is

like i was saying i just recently started uh listening to the show so i'm already contributing 15 of my income

between my 401k at work and my ros ira

uh and my 401k is also rough so it's

i i have both on roth my question is

uh obviously i'm trying to pay off the car as quickly as i can at least that's my plan so my question is should i pause my 401k contributions to then use that

extra money to send on top of what i already sent for my car and try to pay that off

as quickly as i can paul what you just said sounds so beautiful like you literally just answered your own question that sounds amazing uh what you just said is should i pause investing into my future so i can take care of my present so i can set my future up to be sitting

sitting on solid foundation yes so the

answer to your question is absolutely um you have two scenarios

here okay um scenario number one is

some people are probably screaming he needs to go sell the car uh that's what probably a lot of people are saying if you go sell the car and you go buy you something cash and use i don't have a problem with that but with this being your only debt compared to your income i don't have a problem with you keeping it as long as you get aggressive

after it you know but if you i think you and your wife need to sit down and say hey you know what uh this is a lot of car okay um i mean

if it's 30 some thousand dollars right now this means you probably bought it at 50. you bought it brand new yeah it was brand new it was like i guess 43 or 44 yeah yep yep 43 44 and after taxes you paid about 50 grand and so you've already have about 12 13 000 invested into this vehicle so if i was in your shoes with this being your only debt i'm going to stop all my investments i'm going to figure out how can i even generate an extra 15 grand this year

to go towards that i'm trying to figure out how to have this car paid off within the next six months before before the baby comes that's what i'm really trying to do and if you look at it and you see you can't pay it off this year within the next six months to a year by the end of this year i'm selling the car i'm gonna sell

the car and i'm going to buy me something cash but if you can get aggressive paul i would say keep it just pay it off okay yeah because my only concern was that you know um i'm i'm i'm shooting to retire by 57

okay so my my only concern was like you

know i'm probably gonna lose out a year or maybe like 15 months you know while i pay off the car uh in the sense that i won't be going contributing uh that was my only concern because you know i don't i don't really want to go over like 57 would be ideal and i know i can make it but i don't really want to go over 60.

all right paul so paul let me let's just jump in here how much is the car worth today if you sell it kelly blue value 26

000 okay so you're upside down at it a whole lot yes yes yes a lot uh

well so again you get to determine i mean first of all you're not going to lose that much ground no uh that's that's a myth that you're going to lose that much ground on your retirement investing you're going to be able to make up ground by the amount of money you're going to put into it when you're debt free so i would i would go at this car everything

you got you know and again i'll just tell you this is me personally i think ao is absolutely right i don't disagree with what he's saying i'm gonna tell you if it was me feeling what you're feeling i'd sell

the car dave's given this advice before and i'd go get the the six thousand dollar you know difference in a loan and uh and

and and then whatever cash you've got you know you get something that's just reliable a five thousand dollar car or whatever and then pay off that six 000 and then you're right back into the plan that's what i would do that would speed everything up yeah a whole lot do you have any savings at all right now

uh what i have is uh

fourteen hundred dollars for you know for for baby step one okay um that's that's all that i have

uh i know i'm getting at least like five thousand dollars on my tax refund this year okay uh that i'm planning to put towards

uh the car right okay uh so i know

that's coming probably late this month okay uh because i already found my taxes yeah um so that will be extra money that i

have coming in but other than that i have i have 1400 hours

in in saved yeah so and then

i don't know if it helps you guys i'm also like i i have around 84 000 right between my

401k and my bus yeah and i'm 33 years

old yeah so you're in great shape yeah you're in great shape they're fine just knock this car out yeah however you choose to do it knock the car out you're not going to get behind retirement yeah and paul here's the thing man you have to sit down and ask yourself do i want to it should not take you a year and a half to pay off this car

if you're going to decide to keep the car you have to get aggressive after it you have to say you know in the next six months i'm going to attack this thing or you could take ken suggestion is go sell it take out a loan for the six thousand for those of you are hearing this oh my goodness they're saying take out a loan listen he's going from a 30 plus thousand dollar loan down to a 6 000 loan

he paid off a lot of debt right there so we don't have a problem with that but the problem he's going to run into is can he doesn't have the cash yeah so to go purchase the card well that's where i take that tax refund i go buy myself a 4 000 car and then i put a thousand on the six

and now i only owe five and i'm rocking and rolling yep so there's just ways to do it absolutely you know and and making 90 000 a year

i'm trying to figure out how do i generate another 15 grand and have this car paid off within six months it's a nice car you know and so um

i would get aggressive on my end especially at 33 years old man he could be driving for uber he could be driving we met a young lady last week not last week but the week before that can um i don't know if he was no's john me and john met met a young guy he made 78 000

in one year driving for uber yeah so

if you get aggressive if you are determined it can happen yes and it will happen yes but you have to be the one to say you know what i'm going to do this and so there's no way in the world i'm making 90 grand it's going to take me a year and a half to pay off and here's another way i mean we just said he could

he could go bust it work a couple jobs take that tax payment and he could actually get that car car what he owes on the car down to where if he sells it he does make some money absolutely i mean there's we've given him three ways to get there um the reality is though paul

um ao is right it's the right question yes you need to walk the baby steps out we we pause retirement and we walk out the baby steps you got the thousand dollars in the emergency fund and now we're gonna pay the car off then we get to the three to six months emergency fund then we start doing 15 yes towards our retirement so walk it out you're 33 years young yes you're in good shape you're going to be fine you're going to make up

so much more ground walking the plan absolutely man and what's the point of investing into your future you don't even have a an emergency fund you might have a child come no get out of debt get you three to six months set aside and then boom start investing into not just your future but even now your new child's future come on now let's think america let's take oh man man

this is a great hour ken always always fun to be with you always fun wanna thank kelly uh james and everybody in the studio over there uh this is

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit daveramsey.com show and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell your story

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your

money and especially today your career moves my name is anthony o'neil host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me is number one national bestselling author and uh also host of the number one career show uh in my opinion in the world thank you the ken coleman show is very creative we spent many many hours yes and lots of dollars coming up with that creative name i know that was very creative i was wondering where did you get the ken coleman

and hey listen so we're gonna do a little ken coleman show along with the table with anthony o'neil plus some ramsay show all together we're talking about your life your money and we'll take your calls about hey i'm not where i want to be i need a bigger shovel ken help me figure out how i can do something i'm good at something i love create results i want and make

the money hey man so when you make the money with ken come over and holler at me you know i'll show you how to use the money that's it you know this a tag team it works well

you know what kelly james we need to do this more often okay career get the money me i'll show you how to spend the money how to use it wisely let's go ahead and make this happen as a matter of fact uh i'll talk to dave i'll tell him he can take some time off and all right we'll take care of this yeah copy me on that [Laughter] kelly wants to meet copy now as well

because things really go well when people tell dave this oh yeah i'm gonna tell them you know what that i'm gonna tell dave you know that's what i'm gonna do go golf in two more days on me as a matter of fact oh you know he probably will he probably you're paying then man knows how to save a buck he knows how to save a buck oh man hey

this is the ramsey show give us a call kelly is standing by the phone lines right now triple eight eight two five five two two five triple

eight eight two five five two two five i see one line is open um but right now we're gonna go out to minneapolis and talk to andrew andrew good afternoon how can ken and i help ken and anthony thank you so much for taking my call today my wife and i are currently in fpu and it's been such a blessing for us we walked into this with 143 000 of non-mortgage debt

and in the past uh five weeks of doing this class we've been able to pay off roughly fifteen thousand dollars wow way to go andrew that's awesome come on somebody come on yes sir i feel that i feel the lord yeah right right and it's all because we've done a lot of the steps right we've been able to renegotiate things from internet to we've cut out cable

and stopped acting normal right got the budget going and then you know looked at universal life policies like this was crazy what are we thinking right so getting into terms so uh we're able to flow about uh an extra you know doing all those steps about extra 800 bucks a month just to our bottom line you know we have more money to play with but uh you know we're like

i said we're in uh you know step five i mean i'm sorry baby step two and wanting to pay off that uh 143 000 and and deep in myself i just want to continue to be gazelle and i have a great job and you know our net income is roughly about 107 000 a year and i want to pick up a side gig and i i

have a passion for real estate and i always enjoy it i love learning about it and watching my friends buy homes and stuff like that and i have this desire possibly to get my real estate license but i know it's going to be roughly a thousand dollars up front right but i'm sitting on a hundred and you know roughly now let's call 118 000

uh i'm sorry 123 000 in debt

is it wise for me in in this current state and being in baby step two to invest that thousand dollars to get my real estate license to help continue to be gazelle uh and do that on the side uh while i do my normal gig i'll be quiet and listen to you guys how much research have you done into what it takes to win as a real estate agent um

uh with the amount of time that you're gonna have because you've got a full-time job so have you done any research talking with some successful people and what it takes to get started how many hours they recommend i'm just curious what your thoughts are on that yeah yeah and you know uh to be completely transparent there hasn't been a lot of deep dive recently uh it was something that was on my mind three four five years ago

so i sat down with a couple uh real estate agents and and brokers in the area uh and you know almost every single person was like you can't do this part-time you can't do this part-time is true but then i i do see some people that say hey you can do this part-time uh and i would say right now i'm not in

the place where i would want to leave my job i feel like i have the dream job i love what i do and it pays well uh so all right so here's my take i think that's where i'm stuck no it's good it's absolutely great i wanted to know what you thought because i've talked to some some great real estate uh professionals people that are that train other real estate professionals and and and you cannot do real estate

part-time as a full-time income but if you're doing it part-time as a part-time job i absolutely think you should do it because i think you can do it well for part-time so let me repeat what i said those people have told you that they're absolutely right you can't do real estate part-time if you want it to pay full time but if you want to just sell a house here and there and let's say you make a nice 12 000 commission or 18 or 12 or 30

or whatever it is okay uh depending how big the house is in your market you can use it to pay off debt and in that case uh if you're doing nights and weekends and you're busting at your gazelle intense you're trying to show homes at nights and weekends as a part-time side hustle to help pay off debt absolutely i think you should spend the thousand dollars to get qualified i really do uh i i agree i agree i would

say do a little bit more research and again i'm not i'm not an expert in this area ken is an expert in career field uh but

i do think there's a little bit more upfront investment in the real estate agents like you got to pay for signage you got to pay for marketing at the house and stuff like that i mean i could be wrong but i think there there are a little bit more so what i would suggest if you go this route i want you to be very careful on how much money you're pulling away from paying off debt to possibly sell some houses so i

like the idea yeah but i do think that there are like you got to pay for signage you got to pay for do you have a broker relationship already that you're working somebody would take you under their wing for those kind of expenses that i was talking about you know i i do not uh like i said i have some really good friends that have been doing

this uh for many years uh actually i've got a couple friends have been doing it for 20 30 years right that's where you start that's where you start today as a matter of fact before uh before this week is over you need to have had several conversations whether in person on the phone to actually go through what anthony's talking about i took you at face value on

the thousand dollars for just the getting trained in the testing but uh if you get i would love for you to get underneath somebody who's a really successful broker in the area that would cover a lot of that stuff she wouldn't have to worry a lot about that and they take you under their wing ideally some of those people have been in there a long time if

you sit down and go hey guys i've always wanted to do this um

can you guide me yeah would you bring me along that's good and explain why you're doing it say hey i'm trying to knock out 143 000 in debt uh i think that's a wonderful wonderful strategy yep i totally agree i totally agree andrew hey i'm rooting for you man you are winning yeah i mean 15 000 paid off in the last two weeks and you could tell he's really excited yeah he's really really really really excited about paying off his debt

and i love how you you're starting to think okay what can i do to generate some more income just be wise find you a broker so they'll take on the fees for you and if they do go hard man go hard you'll be out of debt this year six percent on a three hundred thousand dollar house now he's gonna pay taxes on that but that's still a big chunk towards dutch that's beautiful that's been

i like that this is the ramsey show

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edward is with us in birmingham good afternoon edward how can ken and i help hello

hey edward uh anthony

yes sir how can we help man hi

a huge privilege speaking with you thank you for taking the call yeah

uh this one because i got some several

dilemmas recently uh got out of the military about a little less than a year ago i've been in fellowships walking with the lord and i've been following along with the ramsey show for quite a while the family is uh rather difficult to get along with doing a lot of uh exactly what's taught on the dave ramsey shows specifically what not to do already enrolled in financial peace university

and some of the dilemmas here is being at square one now or already seeing a therapist uh to have a meaningful conversation and to use the right words here but long story short just wrestling with a quality place to begin

can you be more specific i i was tracking with you a little bit where to begin what yeah

the word began at least with uh like employment getting back up uh getting back up on the seat uh okay gotcha that was a lot of time uh dealt a lot of toxic leadership and that time not to necessarily unpack anything here but the long story short uh been

struggling trying to actually put any teachings like into uh any kind of practicality here okay so uh first of all thank you for serving us on our country you're a great american um what what have you sought to do when you get out of the military what field do you want to be in what kind of work do you want to be doing

well been praying regularly for that

[Music] fortunately dealing with uh now having a freedom and latitude here

there's a variety of options available whether it be as a temporary uh solution here

lows are uh construction

but unfortunately wrestling with some uh

difficulty or uh figuring out what that next move is meant to be okay so here's the deal here's that's okay i feel like we're not quite sure what when you say you don't have freedom or latitude what do you mean i mean getting out the marine corps it wasn't a choice that actually had for uh to make it the contract was over but now i do have a lot more freedom here okay

so you're out of the military and and from my understanding you correctly you can decide wherever you want to go in birmingham alabama and and go apply for a job nothing's holding you back from going after work correct

essentially well yeah essentially so yes

all right and and so what would you try tomorrow what what why are you just limiting yourself to a home improvement store what do you want to do what would you do edward if you knew you couldn't fail if you didn't have to spend any money to get qualified i just put you in it right now what would you do what would you try

uh maybe in the justice department

great and be more specific what would you do in the justice department what's that look like well uh

yeah go ahead and say dating there's

only work to really come to mind right now okay and you've always been somebody who really is kind of intrigued and you kind of get down to the details you ask lots of questions that's something that's kind of a pattern in your life is that that talent of of investigation

well there is a very regular pattern of asking questions and trying to understand to understand something yeah unfortunately

there's uh people skills can be a little bit rusty that's okay here's the deal so you want to figure out how to so right now are you employed at all no okay you need to get employed that one of the worst things that can happen to anybody is to be out of work for a while it causes tremendous trauma you begin to start to doubt your self-worth and then that's a really really slippery slope how long have you been out of the marines

uh almost a year okay and you've not been working looking for it no i didn't say that i said have you been working at all since you've been out of the military no you need to so let's get out let's get out tomorrow did you you were you honorably i mean there was no dishonorable discharge none of that correct no it's just uh general discharge okay so so edward listen you got to get your mojo man and so until you can figure out

what type of work you'd like to do in the just department whether that be on the local level the state level or the federal level you need to start looking into that today what does it take to get qualified what are the types of jobs do i want to be a law enforcement officer do i want to work for the fbi and be more on the criminal

and forensic side you've got to start really looking into that stuff and and when you do so your heart is going to uh really make it very clear to you that oh that seems exciting to me and then we look into that we say what does it take to get there meaning how do i get qualified then we ask well how how much is that going to cost how long is that going to take based on my financial realities my friend

you need to be working right now so if you want to go work at a home improvement store i'm all for that i'm all for a second job you're a young man you've got to get anthony he's got to get feeling good about himself again to say i'm working i'm bringing in money i now have a plan

to look and investigate some ideas for my future once i look at those then i come up with the other plan again i gave you the four questions here are the four qualifying questions ao that'll help people not be so so freaked out by the unknown number one once we have an idea of what we'd like to do we look into say what does it take to get qualified four questions

the experience excuse me the education question is first what do i need to learn it doesn't have to be a traditional college degree could be a training course certification whatever second question is the experience question what do i need to do third question is the economic question how much is that going to cost me and then finally based on my financial reality yes the budget how long will

this take me to

cash flow my way through it debt free degree is an example of that anthony's book so once we get the answers to those four questions ao we've got ourselves the ingredients of a recipe if you want to use that analogy so oh we know how to cook this i know how to do this and this young man needs to get hired he needs to start working stocking some money away

so that he can pay and cash flow his way through this process okay you hit that one on the head man i read a study recently you're a former pastor i read a study recently that said that when someone is out of work is up to six months ao listen to this

that the trauma is the same the emotional trauma is the same as losing a loved one oh man and you understand this as well as anybody speak to that that speaks to somebody's i they're like hey i'm not doing anything i don't feel like i'm making a difference i don't feel like i matter we know that's not true not true but that's how they feel but i mean

i think when you and again i don't know the study so i could be off i'm just going by a general thought i think that study is probably even higher with men yes you're right because men we identify ourselves by what we do by providing for our families or providing for ourselves so we're not able to provide we feel that we've lost a huge part of who

we are as a man and let's be real yeah we have and so uh i agree that this young man needs to get out there just so he can have peace with okay i am a working man then from there he needs to be

connected with you your brand to really start identifying okay what's my sweet spot where do i go from there yeah let's make sure kelly that edward goes to my website kencoleman.com

get the career clarity guide a very simple free worksheet worksheet under my resources page that will walk him through the exercise to begin to get more ideas and really verify this idea of law

enforcement of the justice system

and to begin to see what's what's out there one of the things you and i preach to young people is if you've got a general direction of which way you might want to go go look at multiple if you say well i'm interested maybe in medicine and healthcare well go shadow go meet a nurse practitioner yes or a physician's assistant or a surgeon or whatever and begin to

explore what it's like to do this work day in and day out absolutely man can you hit it all good man that's why i like doing a show with you because you know how to answer the question and teach man about being a professor i'm trying to hang with you man you're the professional preacher i'm trying to hang with you i'm just a preacher's kid so i just got a little bit by osmosis you know what i mean just being in the house you know y'all man we have one phone

line just open up triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five keller standing by we would love to take your phone calls right here on the ramsey show

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my name is anthony o'neill hosting with me today co-hosting together uh ken coleman uh the radio host of the kenny coleman show and my name anthony o'neil host of the popular youtube show uh the table with anthony o'neil uh before we go any further you know i really want you all to make sure uh that you all are listening uh every single day to the king coleman show um it's available every every weekday on siriusxm uh your local radio stations wherever

you listen to podcasts i would definitely say get up in the mornings if you're looking at how do i land my dream job how do i even improve build relationships with inside of my dream job how do i go from where i'm at now to a higher level with inside of my dream job i really want you to connect with my dear friend um and my colleague ken coleman who's

the host of the ken coleman show where he focuses on works that matters follow him on facebook at king coleman's show also instagram and twitter the ken coleman not the king coleman show on instagram and twitter but the ken coleman and they get the book the proximity principle the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love and i'll tell you right now america he's working on something special

he got two big things he's working on i won't say it because i don't want to get in no trouble because that's not my brand oh but america when i tell you you want to be following his show you want to be following him on instagram because he is working on things that that's going to impact all of us including myself and so i i want to encourage

you all to please listen to him listen to the show call into the show ask him some questions read his book follow him on instagram thank you my man hey man i appreciate that but listen now i get to i mean the table is now in podcast form it is people know you on youtube the table's been rocking on youtube in fact last year an explosive year would be a mild way of putting

it but now you're bringing the table audio to podcast wherever you listen to your favorite podcast go check it out because you're taking on some big conversations and uh this is really good stuff i highly recommend it because anthony's got his finger on the pulse uh so every episode excuse me every monday he's got a new episode the table now in podcast form not just on youtube

so doing some good stuff over there thank you ken that's the big tag team yeah man lift each other hey i was on fox news last week you are and they have to ask me a question and student loan debt came up so here i am and i just did a little whoop just church just just moved over a little bit said hey let me tell you about my colleague let me let me get that out let me tell

you i'm a colleague anthony o'neil i did i did i threw my own i threw my own pass and dunked it for my man yeah the number one best-selling book debt-free degree and i think it's still as relevant as the day he wrote it because we got a lot of kids are going to come out of school ao in may and they're gonna be saddled with crazy debt

they are they are it's right over there look at that it's right over there left as i say it it's in my my peripheral on the bookcase listen looking good all right ken i'll uh i'll give you a good tip when we get off i love it let's help some people let's help some people but hey triple eight eight two five five two two five we have one phone line open man y'all y'all are calling in like crazy today kelly's standing by uh

she can squeeze one person in uh for this segment but hey give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go out to toledo ohio have a conversation with charles charles good afternoon how can ken and i help hey thanks for taking my phone call um

got married in in 17 uh 2017.

we had we do have joint accounts all of our accounts are our joint accounts both on both

we got married well

the question is i'm wondering if i should let her finish paying off her car or if i should just do it for myself because i'm getting tired of having it now to explain that you know after saying we have joint accounts yeah when we got married the agreement

was she was going to stay home and do some couponing about time we got married i started couponing and i really fell in love with couponing i i loved it i i felt like i was stealing from the stores you know they were paying me to carry their stuff out of the stores so i told her you know i said i make pretty decent money 28 dollars an hour

i said uh you know and i can work all the hours i want i work pretty much 60 hours right now sometimes one more a week i said i'll make the money you stay home and save us money take care of the kids take care of the house you know go to the gym et cetera

none of that really happened very well and i finally assumed okay maybe she just can't coupon well she has a hard time looking at two products and knowing which one's the better deal you know so she ended up getting a

part-time job thirteen dollars now which is about all she's ever done as retail stuff and so i'm trying to encourage her to

because i know when i paid off my car when i had a loan before for my car i paid it off and that felt great so i told her i said okay when you get your paycheck every other friday you know take out what you want for you you're spending money and then put the rest on the car yeah and she's been plinking

away at it about uh four or five maybe six hundred dollars every two weeks it's like trying to shoot a bear with it okay hold on all right all right all right all right charles okay i tried i appreciate what you're saying yeah something's not lining up so if you two are on joint accounts that means you guys are making your money decisions together then you shouldn't be calling us asking us

if you should pay off your wife's car and then you tell us a story that she's not paying enough out of her 13 hour job if you've got the money to pay it off pay it off why do you need my permission or ao's permission and you certainly don't need her permission other than buying to say this is our money but you're you're saying you have joint accounts

but you're acting as though you have two separate uh accounts and and she's just kind of paid it off whenever she wants to if you want the car to be paid off sit down with her and cast vision and say we're gonna pay it off i i don't know what's missing here

the only thing i left out and i apologize for leaving this out is i wanted her to feel good about paying

it off so maybe she could do what i did which is like wow i paid that off i need to go make more money no it's not working my life you know charles she's not wired the way you're wired you're mr coupon guy not her yeah yeah and here's the problem that i keep hearing charles and and and i'm not married so i

you know i told the producer james the other day i'm gonna be careful how i say things because i'm not married all right set me up and then i'll hit it i'm gonna set you up all right uh they can't be divided i keep hearing her car her money her this and it's not a we it's not a are we gonna do this is not our account it's her money this that i feel separation within a

marriage yeah is this the only debt you have

it is other than the house mortgage and i was just hoping it might be encouraging no stop charles charles charles we've already gone down this path i'm not i'm i'm gonna keep cutting you off if you keep trying to go down this you're treating her like she's your teenage daughter i can't wait to get married dude how much is the car how much is how much is owed on

the car 700 bucks that's been killing me for the last five oh my gosh i'm hanging on the phone it's the first time i'm gonna hang up on somebody yeah hang it up i can't do it i can't do it no more this is ridiculous charles this is ridiculous pay the car off today oh my gosh i've never ever hung up on anybody what's going on this just happened

he said

i thought he was gonna say like 8 000

i'm trying to get my wife to pay off the car with her 13 an hour job 700. i want her to feel good

pay the car off

oh i didn't say nothing but listen there's i'm not even see i'm sorry james i'm not even asking my wife i'm just cutting the check i'm just gonna cut the check baby i paid off your card um you know what i do i would i'd spend 750

tonight 700 to pay the car off 50 on flowers and tell her what you did come on what is happening here she's clearly not interested in paying it off we got a communication problem on top of all this oh my goodness okay what a good guy but now charles listen you're a good man your heart's in the right place i think your brain is totally in a different place

you all need to get back on the same page and say i'm making this decision for us this isn't about having your wife feel good about herself get rid of the 700 get out of debt this guy he wants to yeah he knows how and you know what as a matter of fact i would suggest that you too you two together go listen to one of our uh teammates here john deloney

you all need some counseling together you all need to talk through this together because uh there's no way in the world i'm having this kind of conversation with my wife i'm just being honest i'm sorry if i offend anyone about i'm not baby i paid off the car god bless you i love you here's some roses this is the ramsay show

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welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague anthony o'neal and ao i'm excited about this

because uh we need more great people

yes sir to do great work uh ramsey solutions we're all about transforming lives we want to disrupt the toxic culture in the area of money obviously work relationships mental emotional health and beyond and to be able to do that level of disruption we need great people who are sold out to the same mission and uh we now have a thousand people at our company it's hard to believe until we sit together in staff meeting like we did this morning we see all those great great faces so we need more people and

if you want to join us on that crusade we're currently on the hunt for software engineers with expertise in ruby on rails java c-sharp and front-end technologies or if you're a ux designer seo and content marketing specialist we'd also like to talk with you find out about all the available jobs we have many many more than just those technology jobs and you can find out more by texting the phrase work that matters that's one phrase

no spaces work that matters text work

that matters to seven eight 33789 that's

three three seven eight nine and uh maybe we'll see in the building soon hey i met a sharp lady uh today right after staff meeting uh she had listened to the ken coleman show called my show about six months ago she didn't tell me she was applying to this company but she was asking me advice for how to to get in a certain place and towards the end

i kind of figured it out and i said you wouldn't be applying for ramsey solutions would you and she said yes i said well if you get in and it's hard to get in here yeah it is but i said if you get in come see me someday after staff meeting today she came up and said hi started a month ago i love it so we need some great people work that matters text that phrase to three three seven eight nine

i love it i love it since you're leading this man where we going next oh let's see go to kyle in birmingham cows

in birmingham hey kyle good afternoon how can uh uh how about i say chris hogan can i help you out yeah i've got a

inheritance question yeah um my my

siblings and i received an inheritance from my father's mother and he passed away years

ago um it's only 55 000 divided six ways

so we each get a little less than nine thousand dollars a piece um and we're trying to figure out the best way to use that money to care for my mother in the future

um she has historically not been great

with money okay um and i've been trying

to help her but i still i don't love the idea of just giving her the money so i'm trying to figure out how what the best vehicle would be to keep the money save it for her and help care for her when she's older cool how old is your mom right now she is 62 okay how much debt is she in right now um she is debt free um

and has last i talked to her about 120 000 total and savings okay okay let me ask you this question why do you feel that you cannot trust

your mom with the money yeah so when my father passed away um i

became heavily involved in helping her with the transition

and i got her debt free we dealt with all the finances and i had her

set up so that if she took

if she lived off of the interest alone she would have money for you know the rest of her life

um and she burned through the stockpile

so she burned through all the reserves and all that she was left with was the house and then she sold the house cool and that's kind of what she has left i got you i got you ken what are you thinking i have a question about all the siblings is everybody in agreement that they are going to each give their 9 000 the sum total being 55 to help your mom in retirement no it's a mix a couple of us that have had a pretty decent year are willing to give all of

it some of us who have been unemployed for the last year need to keep some of this everybody's wanting to give some and a couple of us more than others well

uh i think then we find out what the number is and then i think you need to sit down with one of our smartmaster pros i mean that's why we have these men and women fanned out all around the country and i would sit down with a couple do you actually work with one of our smart investor pros now on your own retirement i do i'd sit down well

then that's where i would go i'd start there because you've got to trust a relationship so i'd go to your smartvestor pro and i'd say all right here's the deal um we've got let's just say the number is 25 for round numbers so that's what the total is whatever here's what we've got here's what here's what my history is with mom here's what she's done how can

we how can we put this some money away where she doesn't touch it but i mean my guess is and i'm gonna give you a general answer i'm not dave ramsey but my answer is is that she's not she's not touching her current retirement you say it was about 120 000 she's not trying to do anything squirrely with that right no she's not then i would put

it into that so to me it's just piling on what she already has that's where you're gonna get the best return but again your smart vester pro is is the person to talk to you about the specifics of what she currently has and how to make the most of that money yeah but i since she's proven she's not she's not being she's not being just crazy by trying to take out her retirement

so i'd just pile it on to what she has that's the best use of that money sounds like to me and i would definitely as well kyle have a conversation with your mother just pull it to the side and say hey mom we need to start making strategic moves to set you up for retirement to set you up to win successfully financially in these next few years um

and so we're going to make some wise decision with this pot of money that we're going to give back to you but then also let's sit down with a smart investor pro like ken said and let's figure out okay how do we invest more and then two mom you have to make better financial decisions as well okay you can't just be out here doing this and doing that

we need you to make strategic moves that sets you up to win

in the future because mom if we can set you up in a healthy place this helps out your kids and we're not stressed we're not hurting our families but um we can still help you out so i would definitely uh to have a conversation with your mom first then reach out to a smart vested pro then make some moves from there but such a great question uh there kyle thank you so much for calling and praying for you praying for your mom and praying for the whole family um that this will be an easy process

uh real quick we're gonna go out to phoenix arizona have a conversation with john good afternoon john how can ken and i help hi i'm going to ask about selling my

three rental properties in order to pay off my home mortgage recently we decided to have my wife leave her job to stay home with the kids and our income has decreased by half to 72 000 okay

if i restructure this way i can better

meet savings goals and have more breathing room in the budget which is pretty tight right now okay how much do you own your home

uh about three hundred thousand dollars um part of the reason we're getting this squeeze is uh it puts me above the 25 threshold for monthly home payment

how much would you clear if you sell the three rentals uh thousand 307 approximately

so right at the right at the number yeah

i have i also have a good cash savings as well right now but i probably need to sell at least two of the rental how much do you have in savings uh

a hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars in like uh liquid savings is what i would call it what's your household income seventy two thousand dollars okay i thought you said you went down by 72 okay and this is the only debt you you have is your actual home uh my home and the investment properties right right right right cool well yeah i i

i'm well to be honest with you i don't know that i would sell all three do you what do you do are you how much do you uh what what's the one that you owe the least amount of the rentals are the three the one that i own the least on yeah how much is that worth um well they're all like they're all pretty different in equity two of the houses uh one has

a hundred thousand dollars of equity one has a hundred and forty thousand dollars of equity and one has sixty seven thousand so if we were going to keep one it'd probably be the lowest equity because it'd be uh you know the least uh from getting sellers you know right well with 178 in the bank i mean the way we teach we teach the baby steps and i'm sure you're familiar with them

if you're not three to six months expenses is what we have you put in a emergency fund so what's what's your six month on 72 your take home is what about five uh per month

yeah i think it's more like 42

42. okay here's the deal i would use some of that cash yeah only sell one or two of the homes keep one yeah pay off the main house and then and then attack those rental properties all right right on right on i would do that um or you could sell all three and just you know all three so not a bad idea right there ken you're in a great shape with that savings account absolutely absolutely we're proud of you this is the ramsay show

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show did you know the ramsay show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtubing podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is ken coleman host of the king coleman show and number one national best-selling author of

the proximity principle and together today we're going to be answering your questions around your life your money and your careers if you're trying to figure out how do i make my shovel bigger give us a call we have the career expert in the building who will show you how to land that job get that pay increase and then once

we can help you out over there then uh he's gonna throw a alley hoop over here to me and i'm gonna show you how to use the money uh to pay off your debt build wealth start investing purchase your car you know i want i want to see more young people can get their dream jobs pay off their debt

when they pay off their debt they have a fully funded emergency fund and they're calling here saying hey how do i build my dream home yes how do i buy my dream car yes how do i send my kids off to to their school you know that's those are the conversations that i'm looking forward to having down the road as we help people get out of debt

and we start seeing their kids come up yes with no debt and now they're saying hey i was set up right um i just landed my dream job ken thank you hey anthony how do i do this over here so um i really wanna encourage you to give us a call we have two phone lines open here at the top of the hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh kelly is standing by uh

and i'm i'm excited i really am

excited you excited ken i am you know i love what you just said you know one i i think that one of the other things we'd see happen as a result of that vision you gave us is you know this well the mosaics gen z the millennials gen y they are a very

socially aware generation and i think we'd see people doing more with that money as well um that would be so missional

you know people doing things to help others uh starting non-profits or starting causes you know or uh just that this generation really is

uh well these two generations that i mentioned really are socially aware and i think that you know when when dave says and has said for many many years live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else that give like no one else i think those two generations absolutely uh could do some amazing things with that money so i love that vision

and and i think i'd add that one little thing right there because i think it could be extraordinary absolutely absolutely i agree with you man well hey schuyler is with us in iowa good afternoon skyler how can we help thanks for having

me um i guess i kind of got late listening

to dave ramsey show and i did stuff backwards from i guess the baby steps and we have a lot of money me my fiance and savings account but with her only working part-time going to school being a nurse practitioner gets very anxiety

about paying off some of the debt with that just because she doesn't work as much i guess i just don't know the way to help get her over that to get a couple of our debts paid off so when you say your fiance right now when you say help her get up help her get overweight a little bit more specific she just gets anxiety about spending that money just because she's only working part-time and she she just uh i guess doesn't

she likes having that safety net there even though it's a lot of money just being set there how much is a lot of money uh we got about 75 000 in savings

and then another 13 000 in our wedding fund for may how much money do you owe in debt uh

i was 16 on a truck and we have 8 000 on our student loans this is all we owe so you owe 24 and you got 75 or 78 is

that what you said 78 yeah yeah and it's about 10 000 a semester for a school that we've been trying to pay up front and she's you guys are cash flowing that together right yes i think you just have to sit down with her and walk her through it and go look if we pay my truck off and we pay your loan off okay that's 24 000 if i if i got the numbers right is that correct yep all right so show her what's left

it's the old math problem okay and you

show her what's left after that and you go we still have our 13 000 in our wedding fun we still have uh 78 and 24 what is that 58 and uh so

54 right yeah we both have good retirement

funds too yeah but yeah i'm not even talking retirement because we're not going to touch that i'm saying you still have over 50 000 in savings plus the 13 and you guys are debt free you got yours three to six months already fully funded before you ever walk down the aisle there's nothing for her to have anxiety over help her see how much money you guys are gonna save per month off of those debt payments show her that

number yeah yeah let me ask you this uh when is when are y'all getting married uh may 1st okay so it's right around the corner okay so march april may okay okay cool typically what we teach um on

the money side of things we don't combine income other than savings account for the wedding until we are actually married that's true that is correct so i would definitely say i would wait

to combine your income to pay off

debt you could take your money and pay off your debt she could take her money and pay off her debt um how is that savings broken down

thank you for saying i was i was under the impression it was your your money that's a very good point thank you for clarifying that how much of that 78 is yours versus hers she's got about uh 44 and i got about 34.

marriage um and but i mean what you all are doing right now is is is it's great you have the money uh to take care of that i will go ahead and take care of it um and i definitely want to let me let me ask him real quick skyler yeah what does she say when what what is her anxiety that's just a fancy word you know in

this situation for fear what is she afraid of if you if she spends that eight grand of her 44 taking her down to 36 what is she scared of specifically has she told you

not really that would that start always just worries about it well but so here's the deal so you started off the call saying how can i help her i think you got to have a conversation with and say hey what are you scared about if you cut a check today for 8 000 you are debt free and i'm gonna cut a check on

my side you get to decide so by the way ao is right you need to lead you need to go ahead and pay that truck off yeah and show her show her how much you still have left over and say what are you scared of because look at how much money i saved a month to show her that car payment and just show her how that plays out on a depreciating asset by

the way so just show her some real numbers but then say hey what are you scared of let her tell you once she tells you why you listen to her and i know you're not going to belittle it but don't try to tear it apart just let her voice what she's scared of and then go hey but you don't have to be scared of that here's why

and let her see how big picture hey do you want to be on the same page we've got to be on the same page before we get married we got to get we got to get on the same page on the money stuff yeah and that's when i tried to show her like we looked up jobs and what she's going to be making when she's done i'm like

you know if you're debt-free coming out of it you know that's even going to be there in a year yeah this is a math this is a math problem show her how the math actually adds up and you guys are gonna be in great shape wow what a great way to start your marriage i love it i love it this is the ramsay

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hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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connor is with us in youngstown ohio good afternoon connor how can ken and i help hi um

so i'm 19 years old and newly married

i was never really afforded the

opportunity to go to college based on my circumstances and i just i needed to support myself and be able to pay rent after high school

so well while i was in high school i got a trade school degree and currently i'm working as a machinist um so i just just recently got married

and i got myself in a little bit of a mess during covid but i'm working on i'm on baby step number two i have two credit cards paid off and just uh i married some student loan debt but so

i i have to pay that down and then i have a personal loan that i have to take care of but um other than that everything's going well getting the debt pit down pretty quickly ultimately i was just wondering since i have to work full time and i have another mouth to feed now

i i was just debating on whether or not college would be worth it because i mean i i wasn't able to go out of high school but um and i know

you guys teach the student loan debt isn't a good idea obviously so um what do you want to do you're 19

so you're really young but you've already been in the trades long enough to get a good sense of what that's like what do you want to do well i worked i mean i worked in a machine shop through high school too part-time so i mean this is about my fourth year doing it um i'm making almost 45 000 a year good

i usually go over with overtime good right so i mean we make ends meet

just fine uh cost of living what do you mean what do you want to do you're 19. what do you allow yourself to dream about when you're stuck at the stoplight or you're mowing the grass or you're working on what do you want to do when you're 39 49 what do you want to do successful picture yourself what are you doing i want to own my own shop someday so you're doing the work you're doing the work you're getting paid connor you're getting paid by somebody else to learn how to run a shop so

while you're doing one roll you your head needs to be on a swivel and i'm guessing it already is you sound like a really mature 19 year old but you're you're just paying attention to everything you can pay attention to and then if you're in a good relationship with your leader right now eventually you're taking him or her to lunch whoever's running the shop over there and you're saying hey uh how do

you do the books how do you pay how do you save money on parts you're learning everything you can because one of these days you're going to do it for yourself so do you need to go to college i'm going to flip the question on you do you need to go to college to eventually become an entrepreneur

owner of your own shop business do you

well i mean i suppose i wouldn't i mean i i would like i've definitely thought about getting my mechanical engineering degree because i love mechanical systems and design and just figuring out how things work how would that help you achieve your dream you tell me ultimately i mean for for customer service based as far as designing re-engineering different parts and things that they need made i mean most machine shops hire an engineer okay

but i mean ultimately it comes down to whether i want to shoot shoot for the stars and just bet on me doing that or going to college sort of a safer route to just make a higher income as an employee

wait a second wait a second see now this is this is ao i'm getting all fired up you have been taught conor the culture has taught you that going to college is a safer route let me remind you you're already in the industry all you got to do is keep doing a good job and acquire some skills in the actual shop and you can keep moving up is that true or false and i don't mind if i'm wrong tell me if i'm wrong i'd say it's true absolutely it's true

so so again your income is based on your

output not the degree

am i right or am i wrong in this particular business so if you want to go get a mechanical engineering degree just because you want to have it great but wait until you and your bride pay off that debt and you save up money and my friend here could take over and tell you how to do do the degree debt free he'll give you his book i'm just volunteering

you to give this young man the book but here's the point connor that's up to you but i'm answering your question do you need to go to college i don't think so i think you answered it yeah uh do you want to if you want to great but you better cash flow it ao yeah i mean i agree with you ken i really don't even want to talk about college

i think that i think conor what you need to do is just focus on your sweet spot like what you and ken just talked about uh and maybe go to trade school so you can learn some particular stuff around that uh but i would not go to college man i mean i can i can give you a copy of my book no i'm not gonna give you a copy of my book what

i want you to do is connect with ken i want you to listen to his show um and i really want you to learn more and more and more about his content because i think your path is different and there's nothing wrong with your path being different yeah and i think you just have to accept that uh making forty five thousand dollars right now if i'm not mistaken that's that's what

he said right yeah the average single person is making forty eight thousand so you're only three thousand dollars less than the average person in america right now so you're doing very well yes you and your wife double income pay off the debt walk out the baby steps pay off the debt get the three to six months expenses in the bank start saving 15 of your income towards retirement

you guys are going to be net worth millionaires starting as early as you are and then listen you're being trained you're being paid right now to learn how to run the business you eventually want to run absolutely absolutely nick is with us in atlanta georgia where the nba all-star yeah was i mean that was last night last night yeah nick how's it going man how you guys doing doing good how about yourself how can

we help doing good um so long story short i'm

turning 20 on wednesday getting married in july congrats my fiance is going to be 26 in july and we're going to be projected to get onto baby step 4 by

year's end i would say great um but my question for you is it's more career career based i'm a full-time teacher i've been teaching for five years now and this year i've been

really thinking about long-term in terms of if i want to take the administrational step forward

and get into principal superintendent things of that nature um i'm gonna have my student loans paid off very soon but i do know that if i do take this route i'll probably need more schooling um so i just want to get your thoughts if if you think um you know like what your thoughts are with that well the question is do you want to be in educational leadership yes or no

i i think i think i do because i didn't really think about putting myself in this position when i first started teaching but i've been as years have gone on i've taken more leadership roles as a teacher and now when you say now nick i'm a words guy because usually words matter and i'm just curious when you say i think i want to is that because you're still not 100 sure are

you 80 sure are you 50 sure i want to know a real accurate answer how sure are you that you want to be in administration in education

i'd say it's a little over 50 i mean i i wanted to be a teacher since i was like a fifth grader right it's my passion and i love it um but i

also i'm thinking just long term and um right now i'm making fifty four thousand and i i do not for the number but i would like to get in the three figure range just to support my my family okay so here's the deal all right nick this is a potential trap i get this call all the time on the ken coleman show ken i took a promotion ken

i changed careers to make more money i'm six months in i'm a year and a half in i'm three years in i'm not happy so nick you're 50 sure you have got to practice the proximity principle right now and that says in order to do what nick wants to do or think he wants to do he's got to be around people that are doing it in places where it's happening here's my homework assignment

you need to get on the phone or in person with two to three people that are in administration in education and you do like a college term paper on them over coffee or lunch or over the phone and when they fill in everything that has to be done to get there what it looks like during the day a week a month a year several years your head

and heart are going to get aligned when the head gets the knowledge the heart will then confirm or deny the idea you need to be 100

sure not 50. and don't pursue this just

for money i'm going to tell you right now there are plenty of teachers out there that are net worth millionaires chris hogan's everyday millionaire study proves it absolutely absolutely this is the ramsey

show

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[Music] triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we have uh this segment and one more segment so we would love to take your phone calls uh ken coleman your career expert and myself anthony o'neil life and money guy is here to help you out we would love to have a conversation with you so give us a call

and we'll help you out as much as we can before we get to the phones you need to find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply so ken today's question comes from tamara in connecticut

she says my daughter wants to go to school in south carolina for forty thousand dollars a year there is a school here in connecticut that has been that she has been accepted to as well and the cost is approximately 20 000

a year okay how do i get through to my

daughter that taking out loans to go to school is not a good idea

i have told her that we can pay for her to go local without her taking loans but she insists on going to this school that is double she didn't put that in there i said that i have shown her the interest calculator

and she doesn't care do you have any tips on how to get through to her yeah i have a tip

tell her i was waiting on that

i just had to say i had to say it in a respectful way tell her your 18 year old daughter is not old enough to make wise decisions especially financial decisions uh right

now you're going to tell your daughter hey listen you're going to go to a school that we can't afford because you can't afford nothing we are not signing we are not taking out

any student loans especially when you can get the degree here for half the price so right now there's really no convincing it's a daughter this is what we

me your your father and yourself

can afford and we are going to pay cash

for this school so this is the school you want to go to now if you want to go to another local in-state school we are more than welcome to have that conversation but what we're not going to do is pay 20 000 more to get the same education to get the same degree just at a different school because right now your daughter's excited about going to her school that her friends may be going to or

the school that may have some good fraternities or sororities or known for good partying or known for this no tell her your dream school is a school we can graduate from debt free and this is school you go into and so for me that's how i'm having a conversation now i'm not going to go that aggressive but i am going to say hey daughter no

that's off the top but here's why i'm saying no and i know you may not understand it today but when you graduate high school and when you walk into high school when you graduate college and you walk across that straight stage and you have a debt-free degree and when you meet your peers and they're saying man i'm i'm in fifty thousand dollars with the debt i'm in a hundred

and twenty five thousand worth of debt i'm drowning and student loan debt i gotta move back home you will then thank me for saying no so that's just my

answer on that am i wrong there ken you have you have a daughter no i think you're spot on she has an assumption problem she's assuming it's her decision it's not she plays a role in the

decision but she doesn't have the final say-so yeah i'd have a little fun with it i wouldn't even make it a big discussion either to be sarcastic and go have you lost your mind um i'm in charge

and these are all the reasons why i'm in charge i have some fun with it and just take the oxygen out of it in my house i mean when my kids think when they start making decisions and tell me they're going to do stuff i go well then we we have a role problem let me remind everybody of your role in this house you know man that's what

i like to do hey man listen my parents were they weren't even like that i said mom i want to do this she would just ignore me like i never even said nothing right yeah what well it's great that you want to i'm glad that you want to hey there's things i want to do as well hey i want to drive a lamborghini every day right i'm unable to do that man listen me too okay

i can't afford it i can want to do something all i want to but if i can't afford it i'm not going to do it yes so there you go pretty simple stuff yeah pretty simple pretty simple ike is in pensacola man hey good afternoon how can ken and i help

hello can you hear me yes sir

hey uh i guess i have a question about

church no yeah the pastor is in

anthony awaits your question good yeah yeah i'm debt free churchill 10 paid 10 our times

each month and have done for years okay

the church out here now do not give us a feedback on where the money is going so am i supposed to be happy we're just paying 10 and leaving it up to them to make decisions on the money or should i know where my money is going am i being a good steward i mean

if you want to go biblical yes you give 10 because that's biblical so you're not really giving it to the church you're giving it to god then the church is going to be responsible to how they're dealing with the funds with god now if you know for sure that the church

is doing something irresponsible they're not being good stewardships of the money then it's not even about giving money to the church it's about leaving the church period okay so that's what i would say but if i am at the church i it's not my responsibility to question how the church is dealing with the funds my my personal beliefs and i want to make sure i'm being careful here uh

because this is my personal conviction i'm not giving money to pastor ken per save he was the pastor of my church i'm being obedient and i'm just i'm just setting myself up to receive blessings from god the church is not going to give me a blessing the church is not going to uh give me a miracle i'm i'm saying okay god is saying give 10 um because 10 back in his hands is much better than in my hands

and so i'm activating faith i'm activating god so he can know he can trust me with more now from there i it's between the church and god how they deal with those funds but if i publicly see and i know for sure that they are not being good stewards with the funds then it's not about me giving tithes i'm finding a completely different church and so yes

if the church is still

in debt um if you do not know where the funds

are going um you know i'm i'm not really too concerned i don't know where my funds are going uh inside my personal church they do have like a yearly update on what they did the previous year and how many mission trips and i don't i don't even go to those meetings because again i trust my church uh and my church is still in debt uh so to answer your question yes wherever you're getting fed at

you should be sowing into the church but if you feel the church doing something wrong leave ken you want to add something today we're not add anything very good such a good question man thank you so much for calling in um on that one ashley's with us in detroit good afternoon ashley how can he help i'm sorry i hit the

wrong oh okay there we go all right that was weird i hit four and it went back okay hey ashley how can we help hey guys um i was wondering so i'm kind of in the pickle um i'm in the process of i want to buy a house but i also want to go back to school and get my degree okay why do you want to get your degree

um right now i'm a cna and i just kind of want to go back to just to get before our rn okay and how much schooling do you

need is it two year program uh

well with my past credits and i would have probably have to redo more classes because it's been like 10 years since i've been in school okay so um i would want to just start

fresh honestly okay so how many years are we talking about about four years okay and are you going to cash flow your way through it i'm hoping to i don't want to do any credit at all good well i'm about you said hoping hoping

it's still a possibility so we're not even having a conversation going back to school ken unless we know for sure absolutely we're not going to borrow any money yes no i don't i've done the student loan thing paid it off right now i'm about two thousand dollars in credit card debt and that's just only because of last year you know through do the covet okay well

i want you to hold on uh because we're about to come up on a break and i want to make sure that ken and i can definitely help you walk you through this process because ken is he's a career expert uh and i think your question is important but then also i want to hear about your dreams about purchasing a home and we need to we need to figure out what's what's

the best move yep going back to school or purchasing a home so stay on the line uh ashley and we'll be right back after this uh commercial break all right okay all right um yeah i like this question this is good there are some steps she needs to take and i like that we're gonna kind of come back and reset for her help her figure out what do

i do first what does that mean how long will it delay the house purchase so good stuff all right so when we come back we'll pick ashley back up he is anthony i'm ken coleman and this is the ramsay show

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today's scripture in quote comes from second corinthians chapter 5 verse 17 and we all with unveiled face

beholding the glory of the lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another for this comes from the lord who is the

spirit coco chanel once said don't spend time beating on a wall hoping to transform it into a door before break

ken and i were talking to ashley out of detroit and she has an amazing uh question that i think is very important for us to dive into and i didn't want to rush her off the line ken and i both didn't want to do that because it's a hard decision do i go back to school at 32 or do i go purchase a home so ashley

where what's your exact question for us how can we best help and serve you um right now

okay right now um i was just wondering going back to school what would be a better like option for me i know both are pretty adamant to me right now but what would be better like

i don't want to get into any more debt i've literally gotten out of debts

i haven't used any debts in the last what five years until you know kobe hit but i just want

to know what will be better for me in this situation are you prepared to buy a house right now do you have the the uh at least 20 down payment no i don't have the 20 down payment so i have the 10 so it's like depending on right now my range will be between 80 and 100 000 so i do have that

10 to put down but

i don't know like what am i making the right decision when it comes towards this because i do have kids too but i also kind of want to just kind of further my career and i don't want to like be in one of those dead-end careers where you're just actually just stuck in it how much are you making right now ashley annually a year i make about 40 000. yeah and then if

you go to rn i think you'll be making right at about 80 to 100.

yeah okay um

can you cash flow this go ahead ken well yeah answer that can you cash flow your way we were talking about this before but you feel like you can cash your cash flow your way through nursing school it's that no not really not if i use what i have because my savings is pretty much the same ten percent okay so i was it was yeah so you have

ten thousand dollars pretty much in your savings right pretty much how much is it for you about eight eight okay how much how much would the program cost you um it depends because i kind of wanted to like start fresh and go through community college before i actually get into the program yeah um it's gonna be about 40 grade on

average yeah yeah well look

ashley i mean you get to decide i mean

and and i think he and i are probably on the same page here i i mean look um

you're you are pretty much capped out financially in the current field that you're in uh you could you could work a second job to help cash flow your way through and save but you got kids i mean that's there's a lot of sacrifice ahead for you regardless so whether you choose buy the house first and then eventually go to nursing school their sacrifice if you choose i'm going to rent

and i'm going to go to nursery school and then put off buying a house down the road there's a sacrifice there so there's no getting out of you decide of you sacrificing something and and

then to to save up more money to put down on a home to save up the money to cash flow through nursing school either way you're going to have to really uh get after it and you're going to have to sacrifice say no to some things you're going to have to work really really hard and and in my opinion

based on what i do every day talking to men and women who are trying to figure out what they want to do with their life i think you really really want to be an rn not just because of the money but because of the work itself i think it's really important to you so based on what i'm hearing you say and you can correct this but what i'm hearing

you say is that that really matters to you and so i would put off buying a house there will always be houses and i know that some people look at well i'm 32 i don't own a home yet i just wouldn't allow that narrative to hit to kind of hit you in the head every day like you're some sort of less than because you don't own a home yet

i mean your reality is your reality and to make the future better i think a big part of that is cash flowing your way through nursing school so i would not spend any money on a home right now yeah and i just did the i just did the research for you so i want to make sure my numbers are right so yeah on the low end is going to be about 40 000 up to 100 000 to get that degree

so you will go definitely to the low end yes uh to get that degree but here's the thing rns are starting off on zip recruiter starting off at about 50 000 to about 94 000

a year so i think the question is going to be like hey you got to look up in your particular city okay what are rn's making if they're only making 50 000 a year 54

000 a year and you're already making 45 is it worth it and then am i willing to move to make more money so right now i think you have to really step back and ask yourself ashley okay let me do all the research this is what i want to do uh like what ken teaches what i teach and then figure out okay what's what can i make and and then scale

not scale but do once you do the proper research put them side by side what's the best move for me and my family here's the other thing ashley you said something twice you said i really want to start from scratch well you know i want to do a lot of things but i just don't think you know what i'm saying like i don't think you need to do that

you don't need to do that yeah don't do that like that's some sort of honorable thing you're you're an awesome rock star okay ashley i'm not picking on you what i'm saying is that's a purist and i appreciate that as much as anybody but i'm just telling you don't start from scratch just because you want to if you've already got credits let's start where we left off that's going to save

you time and money ashley time and money man thank you so much absolutely for calling in you got this don't quit don't quit you got this adam is with us in chicago illinois good afternoon adam how can ken and i help hey guys

uh i'm calling in i got kind of myself into a financial situation so i'm just about to finish med school

and before this i worked really hard i got out of undergrad with no debt okay there we go with med school i i couldn't you know blame that and right now i got

uh 420 993 in med school debt

420 you wish 420

000 100 000 yeah i i wish

you graduated with your bachelor's with no no no debt now he's in 420 000 in med

school debt okay how much do you make a year right now adam he's not out yet zero i'm i'm graduating right now

how much do you think you will make a year uh an intern depending on you know where you're working exactly can be anywhere between 52 to 60 k oh my goodness and what's the eventual goal eventual destination the invent

eventual destination is interventional radiology and which is going to pay what range very well uh depending on you know where you work and the type of practice you're in anywhere between 350 to 8.

cool okay so what's your question we only got about a minute and a half okay so my question for you guys is i know that the public service loan forgiveness those guys are not getting their loans you know forgiven it's only like one percent uh i ran the numbers and with what i'm taking home if i'm able to you know tutor

a little bit throughout the week i can augment that enough to where i'll barely be able to make the payments to pay you know this off theoretically in ten years with the with the graduated plan would you guys

suggest that over you know making the

bare minimum uh loan payments that i see you know so many of my colleagues make and then you know it's 20 years post med school and they're still you know paying this thing off adam how old are you man i'm 30. all right cool great here here's the thing adam you're going to be 30 for the rest of in for the next 10 15 years you're gonna work like you're 30 you're going to live like you're 30 for the next 10 years you do not have time for luxury you do not have time for

um fun you're in 420

000 worth of debt right now yes you're gonna work your behind off you're gonna make extra payments if your girlfriend comes up to you and says hey baby can we go out to eat you're gonna tell her no we can have peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at the house you're not getting a nice car you're gonna get an ugly car you're gonna get a car that you could pay for cash i'm sorry

but that's what you got to do i'm sorry ken thank you so much james james kelly thank you all so much america thank you so much don't forget the caliber of our financial future will be determined by the decisions we made today you made the right one by listening to the ramsay show with ken coleman and myself [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 204. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 15, 2021)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iawe_kUYG5M) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:26:25 |

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[Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice welcome to the ramsey show george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five among george's many

jobs in this uh locale called ramsey solutions he is the host of the newly uh popular big hit the fine print

podcast where he explores the fine print that is screwing you over in various industries and uh george the is it the is it the new one that just dropped i picked it up on my walk this weekend on um uh christmas holiday spending holiday spending is that brand new is that the the newest one okay i'm look at that look at me i'm caught up it's so great

thanks for listening by the way sure i'm trying to trying to boost the listenership here but the uh it that's really that was really intriguing and really good you guys did a great job with that thank you i hadn't seen the outline or the wireframes on it or anything and so i was just having the full user experience as if i was a consumer student instead of

the owner of the place and um it was it's really

insightful i mean with all this disruption with supply chain inflation cray-cray out there i mean you know crack-a-doodle man the whole the whole culture's got lost its dadgum mine and then let's have christmas right we started it going okay let's do one on black friday and what you need to know to not overspend during the holidays and all of a sudden this global supply chain disaster hit

and we're going oh my gosh there's more to this story and on top of that you've got all of the baggage that comes with the holidays when it comes to family and expectations and boundaries and so we had dr john delony come on there to talk about not only how to curb over spending but how to deal with family and how to say no and how to set up healthy boundaries that are respectful to family

and you get a lump of coal and you get a lump of coal and you too that adds to the stress of the holidays yeah so i mean i couldn't i did i hadn't really half paid attention because my need for stuff is fairly low uh but 28 billion dollars worth of goods

sitting in la harbor long beach harbor alone on 73 ships or something yeah you nailed it i mean that's that's real good i know that's pretty close to that your memory there pretty close to that because i was just like that's a lot of money floating out there and they can't get it off yeah that was when we shot it shot or when you when we did

the recording or the recording but might they may have gotten some of them offloaded now but yeah it's still just and then oh might be a little back up with the old truck drivers after that oh my goodness basically everything is bottlenecked and it's making everything expensive it's hard to get which means you've got a plan early you've got a budget better if you need a budget more

and that with all the expectations with family that can turn into a disaster and you have a lot of regret come january we pulled a ton of our stuff out of overseas production ramsey products and things we've got a few things that come but we used to regularly buy those cartons and you know a whole carton full of shipping financial piece university kits back when they we had kits

you know we'd have a whole carton coming on a slow boat from china thing coming over and uh

it was like very inexpensive and it went

it's like 22 000 a carton now

in september it was ten thousand dollars a carton and in june it was three

thousand dollars a card it has uh quadrupled i think no more than that i mean quadrupled it was nuts i couldn't

wow yeah that'll add to the cost of the goods inside the carton hello yeah because uh these businesses are not eating this stuff you you people are it's gonna consume if old barbie is a float on the seas oh barbie's cost just went up considering her value her value just went through the roof that's amazing is american girl dog doll maybe dogs are they made in america

i don't know i don't know but it's it's getting wild out there we're seeing goldman sachs backwards if they weren't but but they might not be so getting into port is three times slower and it's astronomically more expensive yeah so it's causing all sorts of issues and so i mean i uh santa claus has got his work cut out for him the old boy's gonna have to get a lot of that magic there's a shortage of batteries tvs gaming consoles laptops cell phones cordless vacuums

i mean pretty much everything you could want this christmas that was a pretty good joke line too if you can't get a cordless vacuum you just can't get it you can't get one who's getting quoted vacuums in 2021 i'm not getting a vacuum

i wouldn't know but um i was going to have rachel come over and do it but it might be a long wait uh i'd be hard-pressed to make it you're

thinking that's probably not the one not the one of my children to have to do that no she's got her own problems so bottom line is what do they do for christmas and they need to listen to the fine print podcast but yeah get ready for christmas this year is going to be particularly strenuous the big takeaway here is you've got to shop early you've got to be looking for

the deals because there's not many of them out there to find because the retailers aren't that desperate and there's not that much to get rid of and so you're going to have to really do your research and really ratchet down that every dollar budget when it comes to holiday spending and get it done as early as possible and i heard something else in there that i liked even better uh anytime you're buying anything

and you get married to a particular thingy

you are about to get messed over in the negotiation you need lots of options yes and so an a b a c even a d a fallback option uh default option in

case uh a and b are not available and c

is triple what it should be because of the shortages and no other apparent reason then uh you need to be you know listen the way you survive crazy is you don't join crazy right you got to have options well we we joked about it being like that movie jingle all the way with arnold schwarzenegger and sinbad when they're fighting over the final toy and that's what it's gonna be like

this holiday season when you want the certain model and you need that specific item and it's hard to find and it's already stressful going to the mall you know i'm not sure how that movie didn't end up a christmas classic it is to me in my heart in your heart okay you're the right age group okay which we found out this is the most fascinating part in

the whole podcast the research showed that there are over 200 hallmark christmas movies wow as of this season well and none of them made the sinbad level no funniest sinbad line ever has nothing to do with christmas my dad used to put me in timeout he'd take time out of his day to whip my butt

oh that's good great that's what held up great that one stuck with me yeah oh timeout yeah i love that so christmas you need a plan you need alternates you need to shop early and often and you take your time and slow down if you think you're going to stroll in there on the 23rd or the 24th gentlemen to do your classic guy shopping you're gonna find nothing in

there nothing out there may not even be toilet paper on the shelves at that point and uh scarcity marketing it's a real thing so pay attention to the marketing and what they're telling you and what's happening to your brain limited time limited quantity they jack up your brain and it's real now yeah everything's limited so be careful out there we probably have a have a marketing uh mention coming up

that says something about ramsey something being scarce just coming up right after we did that i'm sure that's usually the way that stuff falls but um but we don't tell you something scarce around here unless it truly is i think we've got plenty of everything this year from ramsay stuff books and we prepare wallets and everything except christy wright's uh the calendar the calendar that man that thing that's gonna

we are gonna run out of those and we're not gonna be able to get more because of the stuff we're talking about so you wanna get one of those you best get on it there you go folks there it is check it out the fine print podcast all kinds of wonderful

information there every week in this week featuring how to shop for christmas properly george campbell my host co-host this hour this is the ramsey show

[Music]

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ziprecruiter.com ken then create a free profile and let their technology do the hard work by finding and sending you jobs that are a great fit and get this ziprecruiter pitches your profile to companies whose jobs match your skills and experience if someone from that company likes your profile they can personally invite you to apply for the job so if you're ready for an easier job

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[Music]

george campbell ramsey personality my co-host today this is the ramsey show common sense for your dollars and cents and a culture where common sense is so rare that having it is like having a superpower andrew is in atlanta hi

andrew how are you well gentlemen pleasure to speak with you you too what's up um so i have a quote i was just recently informed by the all-knowing government that my student loans are being transferred to navient and given the questionable nature of that company i'm wondering if that changes my debt snowball the student loans are nineteen thousand dollars they're currently fourth in line in my debt snowball and uh i estimate being fully debt free in uh the spring of 2023.

okay what's in front of it

uh two credit cards and a land contract which i also wonder if the land contract carries more risk given something you said recently yeah yeah um so the land

contracts almost paid out it's not much older it'll it'll actually it yeah it actually is probably number two yeah um it's actually hard for me to get my head around not doing so what is the what is number the student loans are number four what is number three number three would be a credit card yeah what's the balance what's the balance 11 000.

is just one we featured in borrowed future but they all suck and you know what it'll probably be transferred again before you pay him off and so that's just the nature of that industry so i wouldn't be worried about them screwing you over i mean it doesn't whoever it's sitting with in the student loan world is they're not as much crooked as they are just incompetent

which is actually worse because crooked you can actually catch incompetence you can't fix and so you just have to manage you have to watch your account and make sure they're posting stuff the way they're supposed to all the time anyway

whoever it is so just watch it like a hawk and keep it right there's what i would do yeah i don't see any need to to move it around in the debt snowball i think you just stay the course and use this income to your advantage and maybe try to increase it if you can to speed this thing up because we're talking you're done with the student loan though and what six months yeah i'm probably done with it and um by the end of 22.

michael's in houston texas hey michael how are you i'm doing just fine thanks so much for uh taking my call guys sure what's up i got two things for you um number one i wanted to at least provide a testimonial for some of the advice that you're giving on here my wife turned me on to your show about four years ago and um in four years we are completely debt-free we've paid our house off 36.

in retirement and then the other question is that if this is going to take me about two to three years i'm a little bit unsure in how to invest it and i know that you can't call the stock market i know that you can't time it but my biggest fear is that i invested in something and then you're two or three years from now um i have less than what

i put into it yeah so uh the 750 000 is in retirement accounts right yes like if you take it out you get a penalty right yes so you can't put it in that if you want to use it to buy a house no no the uh the idea was that i wanted

to take that money and start to invest it somewhere else and then open up like a secondary are you saying you're gonna stop contributing to that retirement account to save up for this house that was kind of my question is that while i'm saving up for the house should i continue to still be putting money in my retirement accounts or do i have your blessing to say you're in a really good place right now um

you should put it towards the house you're a millionaire you don't need our blessing for anything but we would tell you as a matter of course just to continue to put 15 aside and above that save for your upgrade

that shouldn't make or break your upgrade to lose out on that 15 exactly that you're investing so i would yeah on anything above that 15 i would be putting away and if it's two to three years that i don't i wouldn't be putting it in mutual funds that's a little bit short of a time horizon um but when we saved up for our house if it's three to five years we worked with smartvestor pro we invested that and it grew it grew a little bit which really helped us with our down payment situation so

one to three years is a little bit tricky on the market so here's the here's the here's your here's your probability so you can split it up do some of each if you want uh in terms of uh whether you put it in money market or whether you put in mutual funds if you leave a mutual fund a general market mutual fund good growth stock mutual funds across the four types we talk about alone for five years 96 of

the time it will make money if you leave it alone three years 67

percent of the time it'll make money one out of three times it'll lose money okay but it won't lose a lot

i mean it might lose it might lose you know you might put in a hundred thousand dollars it might be worth 95 you know or something so it's not like you're gonna lose all your house money but you probably won't you won't make any money that's appreciable and so that's why i said you might play the market on some of it and some of it you might not play the market but even by playing the market in air quotes i'm going to be in some very conservative mutual funds and money markets or i'm going to be all in money markets if i just don't want to worry about it at all but if i really want to take a little bit of risk you might lose a few thousand dollars if you're only leaving it alone three years yeah and with a high yield savings account i mean you're looking at a half percent so it's not the sexiest thing but it is guaranteed and so you have that um as far versus losing money in the market in a short period of time exactly and the way i look at it is you know a typical mutual fund year in and year out averages 10 to 12 okay a decent decent track record mutual fund all right and so it's got to do really sucky to get all the way down to a half a percent yeah and so i i personally am willing to play that but but i don't want you to lose a little bit of money and then go oh i lost all my house money you didn't lose like you instead of having a hundred thousand you got 95.

so your range of risk is really small really small so either way you go but if you're going to get down under three years i start to get nervous and i just start to park it in money markets if i'm in your situation that's what i would do so good question thank you for joining us this is the ramsay show

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage jim and jenna are with

us hey guys how are you hi how are you welcome welcome i love your tie-dyed b-weird t-shirts best t-shirts of the week that's impressive very colorful i needed some color here that's uh we're ready to go man i was born in the 70s when i was born in the 60s but yeah but oh my gosh still oh that's incredible so uh where do you guys live uh

we live in perrysburg ohio just outside of toledo western part of the state welcome to nashville and how much debt have you paid off 731 000 that is sufficiently weird and how long did this take a little over nine years all right and your range of income uh we started at 125 000 it went

up and down in between there even a year of unemployment for me um and we ended at just short of 130 so not much change between start and end cool what do y'all do for a living so um i work at bowling green state university go falcons um jim and i met there no college of education there and

our oldest two also attend there so um

i gotta love that tuition waiver uh there so i work in stem education um teach some and also work with teachers in in our area wow home of my uh hometown of my good friend scott hamilton yes oh yes yeah and a famous runner from the 70s you know what his name was uh dave waddell oh yeah okay i went to ice hockey camp there when i was 12.

boy goes to the north and get my butt kicked by those northern boys playing hockey but that's what happened but very very cool learned a lot learned a lot well welcome guys okay i'm guessing i'm going to surmise nine years 731 000 and be weird t-shirts means you're paid off your house we have paid off our house that is correct yeah yeah you are officially we're done we are done bunch of weirdos yeah i love it congratulations thank you thank you thank you what's the house worth uh 250

000.

crisis took all of our rental properties down to you know nothing we struggled finding tenants we struggled getting people to lease the values of them dropped significantly and we were at the end and that was into 2012 13 where we were two days away from filing bankruptcy wow and about ready to throw in the towel completely and um trying not to lose it very good

just couldn't do it couldn't let my kids down and we were two days away we had the chapter 7 bankruptcy petition all filled out ready to go and they said we're just not going to do this we're going to fight our way out so my full-time job or our full-time job over the next couple years became dealing with all the banks brokers

short sales avoiding foreclosures

and made our way out from that and sold them all took a significant hit and refinanced we did stupid things like you always say not to do we borrowed money from our parents so when we bought the properties or borrowed money from both sets of parents to use towards the rental properties that we were buying your father-in-law who tried to get you to do dave ramsey he loaned

you money nothing down real estate so i might be really good at selling people i'm getting people to believe what i believe so wow um yeah like the wrong person converted the wrong person well it's funny well so he he passed away nine years ago and that was part of it in 2012 when i saw what he left he was a guy that drove the 1996 jeep cherokee his whole life

and i and i started to pick up on that when he passed i realized the legacy that he had left for his wife and

now his daughter and son and that was one of the eye-opening moments for me when i got to see behind the curtains like now i now i understand why you did what you did and that changed my life so he was an everyday millionaire he was an everyday millionaire that you would never know it he was the guy that drove the old car lived well below us means

and you just didn't know it and now we do and so after we refinanced all of that debt back into one big snowball that's been the last six years um that we've thrown everything we had at it and including our house we had a car loan in there um loans to

the parents um and it it it was significant there was a lot of dark moments but um so you guys narrowly avoid bankruptcy father-in-law passes away and you guys go never again never leave a different legacy for our family that's exactly right i looked at our kids and they were probably our biggest cheerleaders without it and without without any hesitation they were our biggest cheerleaders and they didn't know

it because we just couldn't let them down i refused to let them down and we weren't going to quit and we were going to make our way out of it and it uh and for a long time this story i wanted to keep to myself i was embarrassed by it i didn't want anybody else to know and then just in the last year or so i'm thinking maybe there's somebody else out

there that is going through the same things maybe some people have done the same stupid things we did and we can provide hope because there was a lot of dark moments and you're looking at little kids and are all of our kids dave they grew up with the financial peace junior envelopes i mean for 15 years they were little kids running around with the yellow envelopes and

the velcro thing putting their money into it and saving it and and now i'm so proud of what they've done and they understand what we've gone

through now and they've been a big part of this journey so we also had fun on the long road trips in the car um we uh you know when uh you could turn on the hot spot or the wi-fi we wouldn't turn it on until we listened to a couple dave ramsey episodes and made them listen and then tell us what they learned so uh oh yeah angled

it like a carrot yes yes you were a four-letter word many times our youngest could sing your opening theme song since i think he was about 10 years old they weren't really happy when we went on car rides a lot of times because they knew we had to listen to you in fact my future son-in-law is out here with us as well today and the first time

i really got to spend time with him wait a minute you turned into that father-in-law that's exactly right so this is exactly this is full circle it is you're going to love yourself that guy right so four years ago after the shortly after they started dating i went to pick him up from school and it was a three hour trip back to toledo and i made him listen to three hours of your show

because i wanted to make sure that this dude knew what he was getting into and i am proud to say he's wearing one of the t-shirts he's wearing one of the t-shirts he just bought his first car

for cash and my daughter is proudly wearing a debt-free diamond there we go married he is he is he's a keeper we've decided we're going to keep him i'm uh i'm taking high odds on the over and under that big jim will be crying walking that one down the aisle because big jim's a crier like me 100 that's exactly right without question yeah changing the legacy literally in front of our eyes yeah

i didn't say i mean i wake up every day inspired to educate mentor and influence kids so together we can change the world and we have generations of kids graduating from high school having no idea what they're doing completely lost having no idea how to find success thinking that living beyond your means is the norm having no understanding of personal financial management and i'm i'm blessed to lead an organization that believes

we can create a world that kids will graduate from high school with a clear vision of future success cool let me get you guys in to the shot before we do the debt free stream i'm about to run out of time here come on so the name of the kids are brooklyn jimmy trevor and the son-in-law is lance all right guys everybody's here with the shirts this is awesome what a great story

you guys you've been through hell and you made uh you made a lot of good stuff out of all that manure i'm proud of you very well done jim and jenna and the gang from toledo ohio 731 000 paid

off in nine years making 125 to 130.

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

[Music]

well done you guys very very very well

done we appreciate you being with us what a great family this is the ramsey show [Music]

[Music]

feels like it's too soon to start talking about christmas i know thanksgiving's still a couple weeks away but here's the deal we know and george talked about it on fine print this week that the earlier you get started for christmas with all the disruptions out there this year the less likely you already mess up your christmas budget so a big reason for that uh we're going ahead

and get started because we're going to give away some cash the ramsey cash giveaway every every year we celebrate with our ramsey show listeners with our ramsey christmas cash giveaway it's become a tradition this year we're giving away 500 every week and we've already started and a grand prize of 5 000 bucks so given that you're glad we started christmas early right there you go so no purchase necessary got to be 18 of course go to ramseysolutions.com to enter

and you can go ahead and get into in on the giving too we've got all kinds of life-changing gifts for you and your family our famous 10 sale on our best-selling books that means you can shop over 40 of these bestsellers and envelopes for 10 each or less uh you can

get books like number one bestseller or total money makeover uh christy wright's 2020 gold planner also is a great gift they are selling out fast that's one that is actually uh scarce so don't forget the one time use pres or do forget the one-time use presence and uh give a gift of lifetime of hope give away some total money makeover books and some rachel cruz's books and christy wright's books king coleman's book so on ten dollars each at ramsey solutions

open phones this hour this is the ramsey show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five florey is in cleveland ohio hi

flori how are you hi i'm good thank you for taking my call um i apologize i'm like super nervous um

no problem we never lost a patient

i love that line uh my question is i guess i'm like all over the place with my uh finances and i just kind of need to know where i should be um make a long story short um

i i'm a hairdresser i worked for a

one of the top like salons in cleveland ohio on the west side i ended up leaving that position the owner during the pandemic actually ended up

died by suicide so and then yeah so kind of going through a lot um

the new owners ended up basically i'm

kind of making different changes a lot of the stuff that i was taught and i was there for almost 10 years i've known him since i was like 14. um big mentor you know and i learned a lot and i'm grateful for that but things changed so i went off on my own i

and then i started booth renting um and i was on a non-compete for a year and then now i'm back in the city that i used to work in running my own studio with full salons i don't know if you're familiar with that too much but i rent like a space and i basically run my own business so my question is

i'm trying to shop around for health care i know i should have that but i am 33 years old i haven't really had the need to have it um my financial advisor my cpa is all

telling me like get yourself health care

and so my question is do i basically not pay extra on my house or do i take

that from like my contributing to my like uh my boss ira because right now i'm

putting 500 a week excuse me a month in

my wrath i have no doubt besides yeah okay george so i'm just trying to like budget and i don't know what my budget is i'm still trying to figure that out so you don't have health care right now at all correct okay yeah that's going to be your a1 i mean you can jump on ramseysolutions.com we have insurance pros in cleveland that can help you navigate this help find

the right option and that's going to become a budget line item and anything on top of that if you you don't have kids no kids single yeah okay so if you've got no debt that fully funded emergency fund you're investing 15 of your income into retirement then you're going to start paying off that house but it's going to be only after you've budgeted for all the things that are a part of your life like health care

so any money left over you can put it on on the house but yes that's going to cut into the money that you would have put on the house hey florey yes today get on the dad get on ramsay solutions get one of the health insurance elps do this today you want to know why it's so important here's why it's so important the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in america today is not credit cards it's not student loans it's not overspending it's a medical event with no stinking health insurance yes

so my other question is you kept driving too fast girl raise your right hand dave i will go get health insurance today dave i will go get health insurance right away today and you're saying um instead of like that money that i was like putting towards instead of like paying up because right now i'm paying more on my mortgage

you can't pay extra on your mortgage until you've met your budget and your budget now includes health insurance because you raise your right-handed stuff yes so how do i budget and like what should be my expenses versus my profit like for a small business

so you're talking we got to split the personal on the business side are you running these out of two different bank accounts so i have an llc um but i'm basically paying myself from my business yes okay because your book your budget for your personal life and your budget for your business are going to be two separate things so we've got to make sure that we've got those separated in different accounts

and when it comes to expenses versus profits dave can speak to what that's going to look like as a business owner but on your personal side you've got to get that piece down first and make sure that you are paying yourself a living wage yeah it's fairly simple you're running a single chair operation your income is you have very little expenses you have the cost of the chair

and you have some supplies and so your income comes in you pay the cost you pay your expenses for operating the business everything else is profit and you're probably bringing all that home and that's fine you do need to set aside a fourth of that for your taxes you need to be withholding on yourself because you're an independent subcontractor and you need to be filing a uh

you need to be following your quarterly estimates once a quarter on that and again your financial advisor cpa can probably hook you up with a good bookkeeper to do that or check tax pro tax elps at ramseysolutionsquad.com while you're there looking at the health insurance pros so flori um what i hear is somebody who's had a lot of

emotional trauma through the pandemic with the non-compete the loss of the job the loss of your friend the owner that mentored you the new people coming in jerking you around um your story had some pain in it and i understand that and i'm with you on that the trick when you go through pain is to come out of it very process and systems driven

john deloney always says facts are your friends and in talking to you you're just kind of circling the airport all the time that's why i hit you so hard to make you land the plane on the health insurance you also need to land the plane on your taxes land the plane on your budget you need to get very sis very systematic and

don't be circling the airport anymore land on some of these things and get very precise it's very easy in the pain because the pain was as much of your story as the details were and i understand that i'm not against that i've been there myself i know how it feels so um you know but make yourself the way this thing the way the the all the uncertainty

and the pain will go away is by putting these detailed processes in place yeah and i want to do one more thing for you florida kelly's going to pick up and i'm going to gift you one year of ramsay plus that membership is going to give you access to every dollar which is going to be our budgeting tool that can help you put this stuff into place that

you can look at it like dave said fax your friends and go oh what are my expenses what is my income and you can go watch financial peace university there's a great lesson on insurance in there that's going to tell you exactly what you need and more importantly what you don't need there's a lot of crappy tools out there crappy insurances so go jump on that watch

the videos get plugged into every dollar and you're going to have a lot of confidence moving forward and kiddo you made me a promise

better follow through today you need to go get health insurance doesn't affect me at all but it's going to affect you you need to go get health insurance right now like you promised this is the ramsey show

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did you know you can listen to the ramsay show on your smart speaker just tell alexa google assistant or siri to play the ramsay show podcast check out all ramsay network shows on your smart speaker today

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host you jump in we'll talk about your life your money george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print host of entre

leadership and co-host of this show today is my co-host so check it out george campbell and i'll be here talking to you about your life and your money it's common sense for your dollars and cents the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five tyler is with us in springfield missouri hey tyler how are you better than i deserve how about you dave just

the same sir what's up well i have looked forward to this phone call for a very long time but at the age of 24 me and my wife are

officially in baby step seven wow

that stinking impressive hero way to go

it it it doesn't seem real i'm not gonna lie what's the house worth uh roughly 275. gee man how did you do

that at 24.

i sacrificed a lot of time away from friends and family to uh work a pretty well paying job oh cool what do you do

i'm a truck driver okay so you've been like 80 hours a week huh oh well oh my god that's not legal that's not legal it wouldn't be that many wow a lot with a partner yeah yeah yes

uh so i was calling since we are

officially in baby step seven uh am i crazy for uh leaving my current job where i make

roughly 110 000 a year to go work in the same field

and take a pretty substantial pay cut but be home every day of the week working 40 hours a week what's the cut uh i would be going to like seventy thousand a year okay so a forty thousand dollar putt cut on 110 yes okay well because you guys are in baby step seven it gives you options and one of the reasons we tell people to live and give like no one else is

so later they can live and give like no one else and so what i love about your situation is you can afford to take the pay cut and it won't severely impact your financial life can you guys live off of your income absolutely yeah does she work outside the home she does what's she make uh about 35 000 a year okay if you have 105 000 household income

you can live on that easy got no house payment no nothing no trouble okay so that step is not a is

not the end of the world okay and yes you probably should or could do that without you if you got babies no babies yet okay not enough time for it i haven't been home enough okay yeah all right well the uh uh

yes i would do that now i got to give you a huge caveat though okay because there's this uh it is it has to be a temporary

trade-off you're only 24 years old i don't want you 34 driving local making

70.

yup so i want to know what the next step is i don't want to know today but i mean rhetorically i want i want to know what you're going to do that's going to make you when you're 34 150.

so what career are you going to move into are you going to move into owning trucks are you going to i don't know but i'm not gonna take you at 24 and that be the end of your career growth yeah and you call that okay because of baby step seven we're just gonna kick back and take it easy no no no no you're

only freaking 24.

okay so let's go do something with our life now and use this step back as okay i can take some classes at night get certifications in x y or z i can do this or that on the weekend and get set up to move to the next level and start running a ken coleman program on your life where you move into a career that is really not only fulfilling

i mean his new book from paycheck to purpose i'll send you a copy of it but purpose and time with family does not always need to equate to less money

it can on the short term but it doesn't have to in the long term

okay yeah so yes but not forever

yes but not for long is the answer to your question yes i would do that so i'll give you an example okay out in 1990

or no

1994. i made a hundred i was coming out of the bankruptcy and i was doing real estate deals again and i made 120 000 a year in 1994. i remember this specifically i

had written the book financial piece and i was selling them out of the trunk of my car for twelve dollars you got to sell a lot of those to get 100 grand okay it's not a lot of money and i was doing some speaking and i was making like 250 bucks a pop doing speaking i mean i was not making and i started doing some coaching and i was making 150 for doing coaching and i was on the radio and it paid nothing i was doing it for fun and to feed the coaching that wasn't paying much and the book sales that weren't paying much but the financial piece materials obviously grew into everything we know today is ramsey solutions right and so i had this call and this pull on my life so is it okay if i move from 120 000 a year in real estate to move to the call that god has on my life and the first year we budgeted out we knew what we were going to make we're going to make 60 000.

but the next year we made 100 and never looked back and i obviously make a good deal more than that now so the point being that that was not a permanent thing um and it was but it was a decision to take a step back so that we could take different steps forward and we had that ability because like you at that point we were debt-free um and so i could say i can step away plus i knew i could step back into real estate if everything got real bad and get my income right back up so you could go back on the road if you get yourself in a pinch but we don't we don't want that to be our plan i just want you to have a long-term career path that we take a step back in order to take 17 forward yeah and if you love driving trucks that's what you want to do that's great but have a plan for growth long term and if you don't love driving trucks this is a great time to sit back and go what do i want to do like dave said follow the ken coleman path read that book and figure out long term he's 24.

but the thing i want to push back on for our audience george and i do this every time ken's on the air i wear it out because it drives me nuts this assumption that in order for your work to have meaning you have to make less this assumption that in order to have a more balanced life and have time with your family that you have to make less

so you either have the horrible toxic job that pays a lot and you work too much and you never see your family or we have this sweet little job that has meaning and family but we make no money how about c none of the above not a not b c the cool

job that all has meaning and i make more money than either one of them that's the one you want i like that option but why do we have to assume that in order to have a better life that somehow we have to take less there's this thing out there floating around that needs to be destroyed that's the myth it's killing me so from paycheck to purpose with a bigger paycheck that's the book this is the ramsey it's a great subtitle

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if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 dollars about two years

after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today

at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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well we're coming into the time of year where money stress can really pile up there's the list of christmas presents to buy the extra travel expenses the bills the payments and the extra food

what if money was something you never had to worry about again not at christmas or any other time you know it's actually possible you just need a plan that works and that's what you get when you go through financial peace university you'll get the plan that has helped millions of people save for emergencies get out of debt become wealthy be outrageously generous

get the budgeting app the premium version of every dollar all of this is happens when you're a ramsey plus member

this is what you need to do when you're not always worried about money you get to live the life you really want so this christmas give yourself a gift that will actually help you get there faster start a free trial of ramsay plus

at ramsey solutions dot com slash ramsay plus just jump on ramsey solutions get to ramsey plus get your free trial going and that'll get you into financial peace university that'll get you into every dollar and you can get ready for christmas

our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free give free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get your best possible deal today's question comes from scott in vermont i know your company teaches to never use credit cards

but i'm having a hard time letting go of mine the rewards that i earn are very beneficial to my family because we love to travel my wife and i put all our utilities groceries and other expenses on our card and pay it off every month what's the problem with doing this if we never pay any interest on the card

this is an age-old question dave how many times have you answered this one uh six or eight thousand um the uh uh but the thing is you just did a great episode on uh the fine print about this yes we did one on credit card rewards uh and the numbers are worse than i remembered yeah the true cost of credit card rewards is what that episode was called and we talked to an ex-capital one um

lady named elena and she really unpacked the secrets that they're using to take your money and a lot of people think well i'm not paying any interest so what's the big deal dave yeah i'm not paying any more than i would have if i paid on it with a debit card well obviously that's not true okay you're not paying any interest but here's the here's what we know the step from the studies uh carnegie mellon did a detailed study

and uh using mri and they actually determined that when you use cash it activates the pain centers of the brain when you use plastic nothing happens no brain but um

but the uh but i mean it's just left flatline right and so what it might do is you emotionally experience buying something and have a tendency to spend less when you spend cash visualize everybody listening right now 100 bill in your hand leaving your hand oh god

right uh and and visualize you hand here's an interesting thing too rachel cruz brought up years ago when you hand them the hundred dollar bill they don't give you it back when you hand them your plastic they give it back think about when you were a kid or something and you were trading you know you traded something or when you give some you give up something to get something that's what you do when you pay for something with money but when you give them your card

they give it back you didn't lose anything see how that feels psychologically so it doesn't activate the pain centers of the brain plus cash just does and so here's what all the studies tell us depending on the area and the item you're shopping for you will spend 12 to 18 more when using plastic than you will when using cash when using a debt that's when using a credit card

when using a debit card you'll even spend more i use a debit card but you'll spend more i'll give you another example okay uh george are you old enough to remember walking inside the store to pay for your gasoline oh yeah okay before you paid at the pump okay let me tell you what happened the last time people had to walk inside and pay for gasoline and

it doubled in price there was almost a revolution they were going to burn washington dc down now it goes from 250 to five dollars and

nobody notices because you just pick it you just plug it in the thing pay you for your gas and walk away the only thing you notice is you didn't didn't seem like i got that much gas well that's weird okay and you drive off but if you walk into the store the physical act of walking into the store and pay cash and that registers

that freaking gas is doubled i'm gonna

kill somebody you know you you start to have this experience and so that again shows us that there's a behavior mechanism going on you can take it one step further move away from plastic used to apple pay or amazon prime where there's no friction at all i mean you don't have you're not even touching something physically you're just waving your you know you go to home depot

and you wave your little phone across and you just bought like a house of lumber you know but you just waved your phone you didn't even but you didn't emotionally experience it no i just bought tools i don't even know what they do but i just waved my little phone across i do it with my apple watch oh yeah it's even worse here's what i do dave you're gonna love

this starbucks drive-through line you got the watch and you just hand it over like a tiny king and they kiss your wrist as they scan it

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that's why people go to feel like royalty well i have noticed that with the dunkin donuts app that i buy more donuts too but that's how it works it's the same thing because you don't you don't have to pay for it it's already paid for it's built in chick-fil-a you can eat like half the dead gum restaurant and not even know you bought it so the point being guys everybody falls for this stuff i teach it and i catch myself falling for it that's why disney let's your room key if you're staying on property work to buy things all through disney smart that way they can charge you 82 dollars for a ring coat they paid 12 and a half cents for from china because disney causes it to rain every afternoon on cue but um you know it's built right into the system nine dollar ice cream cone right and but your room key did it and you don't even think anything about it it's the happiest place on earth and then you go to check out and you're like oh my god i got to refinance the house you know it's like so this is what's going on so that that's the problem with his little theory yeah is he thinks he's the exception to all that because he got some airline miles here's the other thing 78 of the airline miles are never redeemed that that's 8 out of 10.

to redeem them jupiter has to be aligned with mars to get on the plane i mean you have to get the age of aquarius to get everything to work there's all kinds of restrictions on those points exactly and that they do points on purpose if it was actual money you'd know but with points you go i got 48 000 points yeah that's amazing i'm wealthy and your point in

the year that was a fabulous metaphor you used in the fine print episode oh it's like going to chuck e cheese you know you you spend 83 dollars getting all these tickets to trade it for a 12 and a half cent plastic ring you know but i got me a lot of tickets what's your cash back and it's all free by the way it's all free because

it came with a pizza you know i tell people to give yourself cash back save up for your own vacation that's what you can do when you're debt-free and you make a plan for your money i don't have to hope at the end of the year that we have enough points to take our family on a trip you know we stayed 10 000 plus millionaires and um 90 percent of them 89 of them were

first

generation rich started with nothing and out of all 10 000 millioners we interviewed not a single one said made

all my money with my airline miles

they didn't say that wow they didn't say you know i gained the system i scammed all capital one because me i'm smarter than old capital one i mean i'm smarter than i'm i'm they they spent more on that one commercial that ran one time that i made in a year but i'm smarter than them the arrogance of this is unbelievable so the fact that you think that you're whipping their butt scott is kind of humorous i'm sorry son you're not whipping their butt they're whipping yours

this is how they built buildings taller than your house you would love to just trade the furniture in their lobby for your home you know but no you've paid for every bit of it and i know you think you didn't fall for it but you spent more and the number of times during your life you fall off the wagon don't pay it on time and accidentally slip into interest

because a high percentage of credit card users eventually pay some interest yeah um and everyone thinks they're the exception a little bit like a fishing story you know like golfing story that one time when i hit the ball just right you know that one time i caught that big fish and you spent seven million dollars trying to get to the point you got that one fish you know

and it's just like it's the same crap yeah so dude follow what millionaires do not what broke people with theories do and that's what people playing credit card points are they're broke people with theories if that makes some of you mad out there good that's my spiritual gift this is the ramsay show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage brad and julie are with

us hey guys how are you hey dave welcome where do you guys live uh we're just outside of atlanta georgia and cartersville yeah welcome to nashville thank you so much and all the way up here to do a debt-free screen how much have you paid off six hundred and seventy six thousand nine hundred ninety seven dollars and thirty nine cents

how long did this take five years good for you and your range of income during that time uh started off at 75 and ended

at about 175 wow what do you guys do for a living well well so uh currently i just ended my uh 28 year career with one of the country's longest family owned and operated wineries in california so i just finished my consulting with them and i'm going to reinvent myself and julie i am starting my own small

business i create unique handbags all right that's

fun good for you guys thank you yes so you were living in atlanta consulting napa uh not napa the livermore valley oh okay yeah but yeah so i was a director of operations so i was passing torch to the

the person who took over my position yeah plus helping out on some uh it type of thing so very cool good for you so 677 over five years you pay off your house yes two times the california house and then uh the cartersville house wow yes wow do you still own the california house no no we did not sold it okay we sold it

and uh we we came out very well i can suspect that yeah very

well done you guys okay so what happened to put you on this journey five years ago well um in december of 2015

a week before christmas my dad passed away and then the very next day i found out i was losing my job oh my gosh so it was a dark time yes it was it was a really dark time for me and you know i was freaking out um you know i realized you know sitting down and doing the bills we're a thousand bucks short every month thousand bucks

you know too many bills you know i mean yeah car payments 401k loan a heloc this i mean a bed i mean just if we had a if we had the checklist of stupid from you dave we ticked every box and added a few okay yeah because uh you know under miscellaneous yeah miscellaneous which is refi roll the car loan into the refund oh yes 30 years start over 30 years yes um

kick the can kick the can but you know and and at that point in life didn't even realize there's a can didn't care right yeah you're young enough um i'll work my way through this you can make the payments yeah no biggie we're still eating right until you can't until you can't and then you're a thousand bucks short then what'd you do well then it was you know

we realized like oh my goodness you know it's just us you know we didn't get anything from my dad's estate you know this is us no one to go to for help i mean i'm a huge talk radio guy so um i couldn't tell you how many times i was driving home from work hearing you on the radio and then listening to two minutes and going to

the next channel because it's like uh what's this get rich quick guy you know there's no way until i was in that position and um

that's why we got to thank you dave i mean you you literally saved our life and i'm hoping that we can touch somebody with a similar story as ours because i eventually stopped and i listened and

when i got home that night i said we got to check this guy out he came home and he was like julie i heard a guy on the radio and i'm like okay and he's like yeah i really think we should get out of debt okay mr amazon

i'm the free spirit i'm the free spirit she's the nerd i'm prepared and so yeah so that was in february so 2016 and then we signed up for fpu yep

and i got to give a shout out to um kim and garrett um our coordinators they're awesome we still talk and um yeah we just went gazelle from there um it was actually funny because i was like i have no job i'm you know i'm sitting in these fpu classes i'm like steve i'm not going to be able to pay this off you know but you know

once we started going through the classes and working the snowball whatever we could you know throw at it it's like oh wow i think this is possible and and i must say you know anybody out there that's thinking about fpu or yeah what is it and if you have an opportunity to do it and we've gifted it before do it you're gonna feel weird the first two weeks undoubtedly you're going to feel like julie said what am

i doing here what am i doing but you meet a lot and i i encourage you to go to the actual class you can do it online or you know through dvds but go to the class meet other people realize you're not the only ones with these problems yeah and actually i hate to say it but i felt better we felt better coming out of the class by

the third week because we realized we had a lot of debt but we were nowhere near some of the other folks in the room but uh the other thing is and this goes very very true for single folks you probably feel the worst because you feel like you have nobody out there but you know folks like us you can all relate you all have death and that's what's happening right now in

this country we got a huge problem what's going on with the you know with the healthcare situation right now and all that now is the most critical time for folks to shut the cards off get down get your feet dirty yeah and hammer it out because it can be done it's not going to be fun it's not like oh this is awesome

you know i'm not you know who doesn't like to go get a five dollar coffee in here like royalty you know yeah just my watch so brad and julie i'm just i'm looking at the numbers and i'm just like in awe how did you guys pay off 677 in five years making what you make sell some stuff what happened yeah well yeah in a second yes okay so so our biggest one was our california house that was like 188 000.

and so we paid that off um

in september of 2020 and we're like cool and then we're like let's move and so then we decided we were originally looking at tennessee we settled on georgia and so we were like debt-free for three months and then we bought the georgia house and moved across the country in january um of 2021 and sold the california house and then paid off the georgia house okay and had a nice chunk of change left over

and yeah getting back but prior in california before we you know actually paid that house off oh yeah it was everything it was comic books musical instruments sold my motorcycle and what was cool was the dude that i sold my motorcycle to i gave him a screaming deal um he he came

out the night before looked at the bike came back the next morning with cash and uh he came into our house and i think you have some of the photos there we had a mortgage chain going down our hallway wow so this guy's filling out we're filling out the paperwork and i'm like you know and i see his face i go you're wondering about the the links on

the wall he's all yeah what's what's up with that so we told him dave ramsey goes oh i know i know about dave ramsey i go yeah you're helping us pay our debt off right now that's awesome and i go you know for me i i love selling my motorcycle to a guy who appreciates it he actually brought his high school friend from nor from southern california up to northern california

and they were gonna go on a bike trip and it was like you know what everything happens for a reason it all works out yep so now you're 100 debt free and oh you can buy a bike anytime you want exactly yeah so what's your first big thing you're going to do now that you're out of debt you know quit your job apparently yeah we already did that

but yeah yeah we did that you know but i mean i've never been happier i mean our

i think that's the thing dave it's like what what's going to be your big thing at um i know you're looking at things differently right yeah uh well dude we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story to move on and be baby steps millionaires you're right on your way to do that and we just got ken coleman's new book just in

the mail a couple days ago so that's actually perfect perfect timing for the job thing excellent all right well let's count it down brad and julie currently of atlanta georgia 677 000 paid off in five years making

75-175 count it down let's hear a debt-free screen three two one

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that dude's about to run through a wall hopefully not this glass this is triple payne he's not getting through it but man what an inspiring couple wow they're on fire way to go heroes proud of you guys very very well done that's how you live life man get after it get it get it this is the ramsey show [Music]

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welcome to the ramsey show george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today kaziah is with us in minneapolis hi kaziah how are you

i'm good how are you better than i deserve what's up um so i'm getting married in february

and um i am living in an apartment right now with a couple of friends but i'm looking for an apartment to move into before i get married so then i won't be as hectic during the wedding and there's just not a lot of apartments available in my area and i don't have a credit score which is totally fine but um i also me and my fiance both just

got new jobs recently so we also don't have any like proof of income to show the apartments so we don't exactly know how to go about that when did you get the jobs um like three

weeks ago and they're looking for like multiple months and i had jobs before of course but they're looking for someone that i'm like currently employed with i think you've talked to apartments

we did an interesting thing we did an experimenter here a while back we called all the major apartment complexes in the nashville area like 30 of them two of them required a credit score

oh yeah i i i'm totally i called them and they're totally fine with me not having a credit score i agree with that um but they just need a proof of income which i have an income i know so just get a letter from your employer i'm gainfully employed i just started a new job i'm getting married i mean how many pay stubs do they need yeah

she said like they want multiple years or something for a freaking apartment that's silly no you i mean you're not a freelancer right this is a salaried position um i have a like a lot of my income is from babysitting and then from an internship and then from a preschool so i have multiple streams of income but my main one might so you don't have a pay stub except from

the preschool yeah except for the preschool yeah so that that's your problem yeah yeah i think you need to look around and find a landlord find an apartment who's willing to look at all the sources of income and say hey this is clearly something that you can afford and recently on the fine print we did this day and we called all around the country we called normal single-family homes with landlords

we called apartment complexes and all of them just said hey you might need a little more deposit so you're just gonna need to explain your situation like a human and they should be willing to work with you if you find the right place yeah occasionally you'll run into somebody who's just being a corporate geek and is following the barney fife letter of the law or something but

but most of the time you can say okay look here i can show you the budget i can show you exactly what's going on to show you i've got these six jobs babysitting and they're i'm a legitimate nanny this is what i do it's just independent subcontract and i've got this this stuff pay stub and your fiance if uh if he's

signing on it as well if he has a traditional pay stub that'll be enough as well but um yeah you're going to run into uh some people that aren't going to understand without a cr without a credit score and you're going to run into some people that don't understand without uh a traditional job but um but you just have to search a little bit more that's why

i was challenging the number of times you've done this and the other thing is this quit emailing people and texting them go sit down and look at them in the face and that'll change the that'll change your outcome as well go sit down like you seem like a very reasonable person i'm sure you present well sitting in front of someone and say here's the story here's the situation i'm getting married here's

the guy i'm getting married to and would you all consider it in this situation no no no yes you know that's what you're going to get you're going to get a few no's and you're going to get a yes and you you can find someone to do this but it is going to take more than just everybody does your deal because everybody doesn't do any deal yeah

and if you go there and you get a tour and you sit down face to face i think it is a different situation than a cold email definitely but you guys just jumped on the phone now you were doing a credit score only you weren't trying to we asked them about the whole situation they said well you need to we need to have proof of income and

we need to make sure you're not a criminal that was it and other than that they said you might need a higher deposit which you'll get back if you don't trash the place and that was it and with with her income being multiple streams and some of them being self-employed like babysitting and so forth she may have to put down a higher deposit yeah in that situation

because the proof of income is what she's running into but still um you know i i've got a bunch of rental property and we would rent to you but you're gonna have to make the case it's not gonna be just automatic like you know well i'll make some money babysitting let's not no no you got to show me what's going on i got to know you can pay

the freaking rent and then our i you're not talking to me anyway but our property management team that's what they would do bob's with us in atlanta hey bob welcome

to the ramsey show hey dave hey george how you doing great man what's up so i need a new car pretty badly i've been driving a 500 car for the last five

years and it's getting to the point where everything's starting to go on and it's got 280 some thousand miles on it you do need i've been shopping around almost every day and i'm having trouble finding a used car that seems like a good deal a lot of these cars are seem like double what they should be so i went out over the weekend and looked at a new car

and i know you say that you have to be a millionaire to buy a new car but i just don't see the benefit right now in saving 10 grand to get a used car that's got you know 80 90 000 miles on it no warranty so i don't know i don't know if right now the situation warrants bending your rules i just want to get your opinion on that well where are

you at financially do you have any debt zero so i'm and babies have seven and i've probably got a net worth of like 600 and uh why are you driving a 500 car

well it was it was a hand-me-down for my mom i know but leave it in the side yard and plant something in it oh my god 500

you got 600 000 dude go buy a car have you saved up for this car already yeah i could i'm not there yet i probably like a month away from having cash board i looked at like a 40 dollar jeep what's your sixty thousand what's your six hundred thousand in uh half of it is my house a quarter of it's in a roth ira and another quarter of it's between brokerage

and savings so you have the money in there to go write a check and buy a car go buy a 10 15 000 car and this crap that all 10 000 cars are worn out or 15 000 cars are worn out dude you've been driving a 500 car this is exponentially a better vehicle than what you've been driving okay you don't have to buy new there's no

i mean but you're saying he's saying well it's not a deal right now because of the car there's nothing that's a deal right now new cars aren't a deal a lot of new cars are going for over sticker for the first time in my lifetime and i'm 61 years old we've always been able to buy cars on new cars under sticker and some of them are sticker plus a lot of them are sticker plus right now

because there's a shortage on them and that's what's driving the used car market bonkers as well is there's a shortage so i would just go get me some kind of car my god get out of a 500 car

and then you're going to move out of move again out of the car it's not that big a thing it's not that big a deal so i was looking at a uh an escalade the other day and the brand new escalades are bonkers people have gone it's an upgrade they've got this like 36 inch screen in them they're nuts and uh the guy at the dealership's a friend of mine

he goes yeah i'll give it to you for sticker and i'm like i'm buying nothing for sticker and he goes dude if you go up the street to the other cadillac dealer their 20 000 oversticker because you can't get these wow and i'm like unbelievable so i got neither that's what that's the move right that was a different move but yeah it worked i mean i'm not mad at him it's just not

the time for me to buy a car obviously now suit but dude you've got to fight but a lot of people are in that boat they're going with 500 cars a new car is going to be way better but if you get a 5 000 car it's 10x what you're driving i mean my god it's just you know anything is an upgrade yeah a bicycle might be an upgrade at

this point so move up a little get something reasonable pay cash here's the thing don't talk yourself into stupid because of the markets going stupid you know just because everybody else has gone nuts doesn't mean you have to and you can justify well because of supply chain i was forced no you weren't you weren't forced to do nothing you're forced to do anything you may overpay for that used car

but not nearly as much as you will that new car and it's going to go down in value faster and uh those new jeeps are sweet though

40 000.

good hour good hour george well done james and kelly in the booth i am dave ramsey your host this is the ramsey show and we'll be back with you before you know

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five matt's

with us in indianapolis hey matt welcome to the ramsey show thank you guys god bless you for everything you do we really appreciate it well thank you what's up got a question i had a 24-year career at a previous player and i had a company sponsored i guess you'd say pension plan

and when i left there i was given three amounts what the life annuity might be worth

at 55 62 and 65.

and i was wondering if there's any way to try to convert that what it might be as a lump sum payment is there any kind of calculator or estimate um because that was not given to me at all okay so you got the possibility of a monthly payment for life yes you got the possibility of a lump

sum at 55

did they give you a lump sum today no i'll although i have the i have the numbers for what they will they will they well probably not i would have to call the the company that actually handles the money which is uh like one america and whether they would talk to me or not i don't know well i guess my question is is that an option to take a lump sum today

not today i'm 53 so we're just trying to do some planning okay so 55 55 is the soonest yes sir okay all right all right here's what you're going to want to do you're going to take it at 55.

but i'll back in and help you with the answer to your question as well what you're looking for is a discounted cash flow analysis or a net present value of the money okay and so uh when you

back that out and you run the calculations with a financial calculator you're going to find this annuity paying in the five to seven percent range

okay that's what you're going to find okay and so were you to take the lump sum at 55 and roll it into an ira with no taxes involved because this is pre-tax i assume right

it's a pension yeah so it's dependent yeah so you'll get taxed on it if you pulled it out we're not gonna pull it out we're gonna roll it to an ira that way there's zero taxes on it all right now when you do that if you rolled it into a good growth series of good growth stock mutual funds you'd make 10 to 12 and you're going to find that produces much more income than the annuity would produce now the annuity for life is probably calculated out with you dying uh 78

years old maybe 80 depending on which actuarial tables they're using and that's how they run the numbers out uh and so but here's the here's the hook to the whole thing that the deal breaker when you die with the pension regardless of which option you take your estate will get precisely zero

yes when you die with having rolled this over to an ira 100 of money will be in your estate

yeah that's that's the right way i definitely want to go yeah so that not only are you beating 12 or 10 over 7

but you're also beating zero over at death zero over so you're better off alive better off dead to take it but it's okay to run the calculation out and a smart vester pro can help you do that and sit down it's not something it's a little too cumbersome to do on the radio but i could do it i could take my financial calculator out of the drawer over here and do it for you but but it's a it's a series of numbers and you have you need to sit down with somebody take about five minutes to do it and you can figure out then what the actual interest rate is that they're paying based on the different numbers that they're giving you there's a formula to put the stream in and you can make an assumption of 80 or assumption of 78 and there's a formula for putting the lump sum in there's a formula you said there's another number at 65.

um but um but the pension

is one of the reasons that almost all mainstream companies have done away with pensions they're almost all gone everybody's pretty much 401k now don't you still do find pensions and unions in huge companies and certainly in government you find them everywhere in those situations but i mean most traditional

corporations in america today don't have a pension anymore because it's just not a good deal and it's cumbersome it's crud to manage it from the employer's standpoint it's a disaster it's really hard but um the uh but but so the big thing

is just when you die you get nothing and versus when you die you get something your your airs get stuck that alone is good reason to take it and invest it as soon as possible you know you talk you know it's a hundred thousand bucks fifty thousand bucks two hundred thousand bucks whatever it is it just evaporates you know and so that that pretty much destroys the math even

if the numbers were reversed if you only made seven moving it and you would have got 12 leaving it you still got to think about zero at death and it starts to offset the numbers so you know you just still got to do the critical thinking on it but it's okay to do the math and it sounds like he wants to so sit down with the smartvista pro

they can pull out a financial calculator and just a few minutes back into those numbers i could do it but i'm not gonna do it on there i used to do that on the air and it drives me nuts because i get two adds punch one number wrong i'm trying to talk and then i hit it in and it just doesn't work so all right so generally folks

if you have a pension lump sum option take it and roll it to an ira in good growth stock mutual funds with your smartvestor pro because when you die it doesn't evaporate that way that's your general answer now there may be some weird exception somewhere so it's always good to think about it always good to learn about it uh but in general that's some

fairly simple reasoning that'll get you to that answer ryan is with us in johnson city tennessee hey ryan what's up ryan george it's great to talk to you guys you too sir um i've got a uh i don't know a serious life question a quick backstory dave i dropped out of school when i was 17 years old and i've worked my hand in off the last eight years to get to where i am today um but you're 25 my father-in-law yes sir okay um i've been a heavy-duty diesel mechanic ever since i actually run

a shop now um and uh for a major company um and my father-in-law has approached me to take over his construction business now i'm not i also own a home investment company where we buy fix and resell houses i'm currently working on two houses all this is done with cash no bald money um

and i just i don't know i've worked really hard to get to this point i'm nervous i don't i don't know what kind of decision you know what kind of you know i understand i guess you could say that's a very very good question i'm bumping up on a commercial break here so we're gonna go make a little money so we can stay on there and uh we'll come back here

and be sure we answer your question a little more thoroughly i don't wanna do it in 10 seconds so hang on ryan be back with you this is the ramsey show

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we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verses

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with ryan in johnson city tennessee started out as 17 years old as a diesel mechanic now he runs the shop doing really well his father-in-law comes by the way he's doing some uh fixes and flips on some houses father-in-law comes along and says he owns a construction company and uh ryan we want you to come over here

and run it and that's about how far we got in the discussion is that a fair summary of what you told me so far sir yes sir mate that's accurate okay cool so what is the uh what's what's your what are you going to do

that's i don't know that's kind of kind of what you know wanting some advice from you guys today uh you know start off you know he what it is is he's looking to in the next five to six years he's looking to to pass it on and be you know he's ready to retire he's he's worked he's worked this business for 30 plus years um the last five or ten years he's just he's got older in his age and he's not been as engaged as he used to be but i mean he does painting and trim work and you know really high-end houses it's not you know regular mom-and-pop type houses so it's it's specif it's specific work and it's highly you know it's in high demand for the type of work that he does um and he just is he physically is he physically still doing the work or he has people working for him but does it um he goes to the job site yeah he he he has multiple people where he's got a paint crew and a carpenter crew but they're doing specific type of like trailers paint work yeah they're doing craftsman they're doing high-end stuff it's not slap it on there but he's not swinging a hammer or a paintbrush anymore he still goes to job sites but you know he works the farm he'll you know he may go job site and help guys if they need help but he he's not required to be there like you know like he used to be you know years ago building the business and this and that he don't he's got he actually let the business get a little smaller than it used to be he used to have about 60 or 70 employees and now he's he's around he's in the 20s but like i said last five or ten years he hadn't really wanted to work okay so what's the profit on the business um i don't know it's okay we haven't sat down and talked those numbers but basically he can he can replace my income as and you know as far as what i'm making here today i'm putting in long term you're doing this to get your income up yes yes okay so i don't want to know what that is i mean replace my income what do you make now um i make between just depends on how hard i you know want to work between 85 and 90.

uh you know depending now i'm still an hourly foreman so i run you know i still run a shot but you know if i want to work extra every time i can get you know i can get into the high 90s just depends on how how hard how much i want to work that's that's just from my current job that don't count my you know the company that i've got where we buy and sell houses uh i think i made like between

foreman and that last year i made like

135-ish or something

what are the what are the terms of you taking over the business

basically uh he wants me to get in there and learn this hand trade i would be at par i would be an owner from day one basically

um so you know he's always just he would go work the job sites and he would get to pay for pay for you know the what he would earn that week that's all he'd pay himself and the rest of the money that all the other carpenters would work and that he would make on top of what him be on the job site he would just put in

the business account and then he would pay himself you know quarterly or once a year just a bonus or something and i mean he's he's got a very high net worth uh well over three million dollars so he's done so is he gonna get he's gonna give you this business at the end of the story at the end of the story end of the day he wants me to run

he wants me he's at this business he won't know you running it for him is different than him giving it to you which is it it's it's he it's you know he's gonna give it to me at the end of the day but he just wants me to learn the trade i understand running i said at the end of the story so you're 25 when you're 30

this will be yours

yes but yes okay now when you're 50 what

do you want to be doing with your life diesel mechanic or running high-end trade

uh i'm gonna work for myself dave um

uh you know that's not the answer and you work for yourself doing anything yeah that's true you could be a diesel mechanic for yourself and not run a shopper yourself uh you could be a high-end trade for yourself what do you want to be doing every morning when you get up monday morning you're going to work have a smile on your face like i did this morning yes sir i've been doing this 30 years and i still like it

at the end of the day dave i could be doing either one of these jobs and be happy at the end of the day um bull crap i'm limited i'm i'm i love them both now listen you you

you are good with your hands and you are such a freaking hard worker that you are you are content with anything that is hard work that you can make a living and i want you to rise up above that and get into your head not just your hands and go what's going to make me smile when this is big

and you don't have to answer me but you got to answer you before you make this decision i think you're going to go to work for him and the hand that take this over but i want you to be really sure that you're not just doing it just because it's there because you'll be miserable don't be miserable and look back and go i live my father-in-law's dream yes sir ryan's dream that's what we're

after here and it's okay to do that i mean my kids are involved in this business they're taking it over they're not going to be miserable we've gone through a very detailed process to make sure it's god's call on their life for them to be here or don't be here because nothing's worse than family business when somebody don't want to be there yes sir i i tell

you what dave i i won't do anything it makes me miserable i'm i'm yeah i want to come home and you know be with my family and enjoy the time i'm with my family so i want and so they really enjoy what you do you aren't doing those real estate deals just for money you enjoy that project based get stuff done take something and transform it and put

it back out in the marketplace looking better than it did and make some money on it you enjoy that don't you

you're a absolutely who fixes things so i think you're going to end up doing this but i want you to get down inside your heart talk with your wife and then the other thing is with your father-in-law don't assume squat this needs to all be written down yes sir that's that's what that's one thing he said he said we can get with his his order yeah like on this date if i am competent and i have learned the trade you will turn it over to me

yes sir that needs to be in writing okay so hang on i'm gonna have kelly pick up ken coleman's book from paycheck to purpose will be helpful to you but more importantly kelly give him this career assessment that we've got now and it is ryan it's

just magical it'll take you about 15 minutes to take it and you will have insights into yourself you can go over it with your answers with your spouse you and your wife look it over you could even go over it with your father-in-law it sounds like he's a great guy and just talk it through and go what does this the answers to this assessment lead me to

this deal yeah that's a very interesting situation where he can do anything and he's a hard-working guy but what does he love to do because that's what i'm looking at is you could take over the business and go all right this is fun but when you have options which he does right now i don't want him to feel obligated to step into family business and then step into a nightmare down

the road exactly and

it's um both of these jobs are activating the same stuff inside of him that makes him you know he does stuff with his hands he's a fixer he's gotta fix his stuff so that and that's all perfect for both of these that's one of the reasons he's saying that but i want him to push past that and uh ken's this this new book that is it is really incredible yeah uh to get really clear on what

it is you're going to do that's step stage one of these seven stages to get to move from paycheck to that get clear assessment that you're talking about that purpose statement that it gives you is so it gives you such clarity and you go up want to run it through this filter nope the trade's not going to do it yep i need to be a diesel mechanic

i need to be in real estate yep and i um yeah

and you do move through the process i talked about this with ken's group the other night when we did that live stream for his book you do move from the process of just having a job to make a living and feed your kids eat keep the lights on and then you move to career and then the best of the best is when you get to move from career to calling

when you move into your calling that's where the joy is that's where their soul deep work in your work yeah and you and i are both experiencing that personally yeah so good stuff this is

the ramsay show [Music]

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today on the debt free stage in

the lobby of ramsey solutions james and

emily are with us hey guys how are you hello hey we're good welcome welcome where do you guys live uh we're in kennesaw georgia just north of atlanta awesome welcome to nashville good to have you second atlanta debt free screamer today very good how much debt have you guys paid off uh just over 50 000.

because we had a baby during that time and i work part-time at a treatment center to help um substance abuse clients okay and that was your career before it was yeah i was full-time um i i just kind of took a step back to take care of our baby absolutely cool and what about you james what do you do i run a lawn care business in the kennesaw area awesome very cool what kind of debt was your 50 000 my student loans it was my student loans my car

was a good bit of it and then a credit card too yeah no mowing equipment no

he runs a debt-free business because of you i love it that's awesome there's pictures of that too by the way yeah i see them they're showing up here on youtube very clean it mows better when it's definitely that's that's some kind of pickup you got there the humble beginnings that's the beginnings of the whole process check it out okay he's got a real truck now he's pulled

it with a honda accord before it's good i love it well done dude i like it that's cool and so uh debt-free dude marries emily nguyen how long have y'all been married just over a year it was august 2020 we got married okay so before you even got married you started on this idea of getting out of debt and then completed it after marriage and then had a baby yep

he uh been busy he uh

was the initiator of the whole situation

i can imagine yeah how did that go down tell us that story so i had proposed to

her uh early and i guess it was 2019

and it was kind of a time where i i didn't really have a plan or goals with money i didn't have like i was just you know flying through the wind with everything and you know i came across your stuff from our friends and to have like a straightforward direct like follow these instructions things was was super easy for me to get behind and i really liked that a lot

so you know we discussed it together that this is kind of what we wanted to do for our life and how we wanted to live our life and to grow and to prosper and then uh so we set the goal and then you know we found out we were pregnant with lily not long after we got married and so uh that kind of made things real and made things sort of like yeah

it kind of gave the timeline like i was really i personally was sort of pushy with it i was like i really want to try to get this done before she comes um if we can so that we can come home and not have to worry about that um so but we did we as soon as she was

born in home safe and healthy as well as me um we paid it all off you got the money

saved and you chunked it in that's perfect that's exactly what you're supposed to do um during that time though we were able to cash flow our wedding um pay for an acl surgery for

one of our dogs and to pay cash for her birth oh wow yeah and he's building this lawn care business with cash the whole time yeah yeah he was doing that um and i worked three jobs up until um i gave birth wow

man you guys have been after it for 17 months so what was the heart of sacrifice along the way that you guys had to make uh i don't know sacrifice i was really i really like eating out um but i would say the hardest part was probably when we came to the grips we you know we we did financial peace as kind of our pre-marital thing um we we went through the course online at the time because it was covered um

but we when it when i when i had to personally accept that our bank accounts were going to be joined that was very difficult because i couldn't do what i wanted to do with my money anymore it was like you know i had a built-in accountability partner and it was kind of that was the most difficult part to me i think wow so along the journey you guys had to combine finances

and you were going i don't know how much i like this but now you see the benefits of it when you get on the same page absolutely yeah oh yeah how's it feel now to be free i mean that financial piece is the perfect way to describe it you know it's like it's kind of i feel normal like this is kind of it's hard to describe like

i felt weighed down before and stressed out a lot and you know i'm sort of a naturally high anxiety person as it is and so to not have to worry about that

is just huge i mean it's huge it really is just like that sigh of relief like it's like this part's taken care of you know like we're okay and we have a goal and a plan now that we have a direction that we're going in financially and like i really you know want to do that for our daughter and for our family and our kids kids so

you guys are heroes you're so fun you changed everything for her i mean she's she's got a great future because of you two because of the way you've taken control of your life congratulations i'm so proud of you thank you thank you yeah it's it was tough um i'm a spender i

would say um and it was difficult but i think having him was super important because at times i wanted to be weak he was strong and at times he wanted to be weak like i was strong and i was like this is why we're doing it like we need to remember that and i took out a ton of student loans not knowing what it was going to do and now my daughter is never going to do that amen amen well done yeah that's that's the family tree that's changed right there it's not the 50 000.

um i'm 27. i'll be 35 in december okay

very cool good for you guys yeah the future is bright baby future's bright very very very well done and what's your baby's name um her name's lillian lillian okay and she's visiting off to the side i understand she is yeah she might freak out she's a little camera shy at her age okay that's cool no troubles no troubles oh good all good well done you guys who were your biggest cheerleaders outside

the two of you i would say our friends were kind of cheering us on along the way a lot of them uh they didn't necessarily friends and family were cheering a song along the way they didn't necessarily buy into what we were doing uh because it's you know not a normal thing in the eyes of society but they they cheered us on yeah yeah like everyone wanted you're weird

but i love you yeah yeah yeah you guys are doing good yeah that's good i like it well you never know some of them may come along now that you're having this sense of peace that they don't have yeah yeah you know so good stuff so what would you guys say to the couple out there who's about to combine the finances they're getting married they've got a pile of debt

and they're a little bit anxious about all this stuff um i would say i mean you said it really well george when you said that like it kind of it gets us on the same page because otherwise even if we both have the same goal but aren't combined in what we're doing it's just still off a little it's like not you're not really there you're not walking hand in hand on

the same path you're kind of walking two separate paths in a similar direction and it's like just so much stronger it's like getting in the car and driving down the highway rather than wandering you know it's like so much better for me it was trust like i took that extra leap to trusting him because i told him straight up i was like i kind of want a separate savings account just in case like what

if um and his exact words where you're setting us up for failure and for divorce and um yeah i'm fighting words that was pretty cool that was before being married um so we still got married but he was he was right like

i don't need an escape route because we're in this together like we're in this together and beautiful beautifully that's strong i don't need an escape route because we're in it together that's that right there's tweetable i'll take it back back when people that were real were on twitter but yeah oh my gosh way to go guys so proud of you got a copy of the legacy journey for

you that is the next chapter in your story for sure that's where you're going next and on the baby steps millionaires before you know it and i can't wait to hear from you when that part of your story occurs as well really well done copy the total money makeover for you to give away for one of those doubter friends and maybe you'll bring them along on the journey all right it's james

and emily and lillian from marietta georgia 50 000 paid off in

17 months making 60 to 74. count it down

let's hear a debt-free scream count one two three we're different

that is how you do it ladies and gentlemen this is the ramsay show

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so

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our scripture today james 1 12 blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test that person will receive the crown of life that the lord has promised to those who love him joe vitale said a goal should scare you a little and excite you a lot that's the truth so let me ask you a question when you think of a millionaire what kind of job do

you picture them having some kind of high-powered executive position ceo vp well here's the thing only 15 of a mil of millionaires actually have jobs like that the reality is the top five careers

for millionaires in america are engineer accountant teacher manager and attorney and that's just one of the surprising things our team found when we conducted the largest study of millionaires ever done they talked to 10 000 millionaires about who they are and how they achieved that goal our study also made it clear that to become a millionaire you've got to invest wisely and a big part of that is getting good investing advice

the vast majority of millionaires use an investment advisor to teach them and then they make their own decisions our team recommends trustworthy vetted investing pros from all over the country we call them smart fester pros to get in touch with the smart investor pro in your area go to ramsey solutions dot com slash smart vester and start building wealth today that's ramsey solutions dot

com slash smart vester george campbell is my co-host today alex is with us in sacramento hi alex welcome to the ramsey show hi thanks for answering sure how can we help um

i have a question about cancer insurance and so i know you don't recommend cancer insurance but i was wondering if that still applies in my situation so i have a genetic mutation where my chances of getting breast cancer increased to about 70 percent and

i scheduled the appointment to meet with my insurance company and i'm about to

cancel it but i want to make sure that i'm doing the right thing

okay so what is your can what kind of cancer insurance do you have

um it's cancer insurance offered through my workplace um basically if i get like

some kind of service that's related to cancer

like a mammogram then i'll get like a little check like a good job for doing that and then if i do get cancer then

i'll get a percentage of what i would have gotten um if i were working

okay so it covers your income if you're off from work due to cancer

yeah but i have to have a cancer diagnosis yeah i know i understand that and uh but mammograms are free with almost every health insurance plan out there now right yeah yeah okay so so really this is basically disability insurance in the event of cancer only do you have long-term disability insurance yes i just signed up so now i do good do

you have an emergency fund

um only over a thousand i'm still on baby step two okay and how much does your cancer insurance cost

um about 30 bucks a month okay and what does it pay if you get cancer

70 of your income right yeah for how many months i'm not sure okay be good to know be good to know how long before it starts too after a cancer diagnosis does it start six months after or six days after that's important right okay so here's the thing if you have three to six months of expenses i would drop it even in your situation it's a gimmick is what

it is they don't sell heart attack insurance they just sell cancer insurance and as many people die of heart attack as they do cancer but they just cancer so scary and it's such a thing and if you've ever had a loved one and most of us have that have had cancer then it just you know just devastates you emotionally and so it's you're so susceptible to that

so i would keep it for now but i would not keep it long-term because it is really not a good product but for right now you know 30 bucks a month is covering you because you only got a thousand dollars but once you have three to six months of expenses set aside and long-term disability insurance in place you've got no need for it

yeah you talk about this in financial peace university in that insurance lesson there's so many different types out there and writers you can add and a lot of them are just gimmicks and they're covered through your normal insurance they're covered through long-term disability so you really gotta look at the fine print no pun intended to figure out what you actually need and alex i do want you to do just exactly that george is right

because you don't know what you're getting for your 30 bucks and here's the rule in insurance if it doesn't cost much there's a reason the fact that it's only 30 bucks 360 a

year there's a reason because it doesn't cover much so it either has a elimination period meaning it starts late or it's a short payout it doesn't pay out for very long and they know that on average covering a young woman of your age that that's where you are so i'd leave it in place for today but i want to learn what it actually covers and then i do want to get your emergency fund in place

the fully funded one and then drop it at that point just because you in particular are worried about this because of this genetic situation for most people i just drop it period just because it really doesn't cover much when you get down into it it just doesn't there's not much benefit for the cost that's what it comes down to so good question thank you for joining us eli's in clarksville hey eli welcome to

the ramsay show you how can we help so i'm a sergeant in the army right now

and i'm planning to get out june in uh

june 18th of this coming year and i have about 60 days of leave before

i do get out and like the army will still pay me for like that that time but i'm not sure exactly

what i want to do when i get out because like i there's all kinds of different options and i was just hoping that you could i don't know like uh help me like figure out like how long of like a window i really have to like figure out what i need to do eli how old

are you i'm 22 and i turned 23 in february

awesome well thank you so much for your service and sacrifice first of all

thank you so when it comes to what you want to do you've this this is all you've known is being in the military right yes sir so what you got to do is figure out what do i want to do for the rest of my life as a 22 23 year old and we've been talking about you know ken's book from paycheck to purpose and i want to gift

you that book and i want to also gift you that get clear assessment that's going to help walk through what are you really wired to do because there's a lot of things you could do like you're saying i've got a lot of options is there anything that comes to mind when you think hey man if i could get out and do anything here's what i would love to do with my life with my work

so i mean i'm a really big fan of like

helping other people out and like uh doing kind of like a or like doing like a supervisor type position like so you want to lead people i thought i thought a lot about opening my own business though but yeah i'm kind of i don't know i need to learn a whole lot more about that before i would be able to move anywhere in that direction agreed agreed i agree with that you got time i don't think that's your first step i think your first step is find something to move into and begin to find your way toward something that gives you joy where you can serve folks and you can get some sense of soul so george is exactly right we'll send you the get clear assessment take that it's our gift to you to say thanks for your service and we'll send you a copy of ken's book from paycheck to purpose and read every bit of that and look at every bit of that dig into it and then dig into ken coleman's website because you've what you are is you're on a journey a process here of self-discovery that's very healthy and good people do it at 22 they do it at 32 and they do it sometimes it's 62.

really working hard on where you want to end up good hour george well done times thank you well done james and kelly in the booth we appreciate you this is the ramsey show we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 205. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 17, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:26:12 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five ken's show the ken coleman show deals with careers you getting the job you love his brand new book that came out last week as went on sale last week we've been pre-selling it but it hit the actual shelves and shipped into your mailbox and so forth last week from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love on the

heels of that book actually uh launching on the street date last week we are launching pre-sale yesterday on uh the first book i've done in eight years it's called baby steps millionaires how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too it's on pre-sale now you can get it at ramseysolutions.com you can get ken's book ramsey solutions.com the pre-sale on mine like all of our others has a whole bunch of goodies in

it including audio books and e-books and 100 worth of stuff to go with it so check out books they are available a lot of things you can't get this year for christmas these books you'll be able to get well baby steps comes out in january but um but you can go ahead and do the pre-sale and put the uh i don't know wrap up something under the tree yeah

you put a picture of it or something in a stocking maybe take a picture by the way speaking of pictures put it in ken's book i like seeing the oh yeah thank you very much thank you dave i appreciate that the gift that keeps on giving uh so i like the new picture by the way i mean not only is it the first book in eight years

but we've got a uh updated pick looking pretty cool there standing in the meadow i mean i like the whole scene there it looks like the sun rising did you take that at six in the morning yeah we did we went out to my farm and did a photo shoot as as the sun was coming up yeah it's fun and uh they did a really good job with

it um and you know photoshop's amazing i've said that yeah i've said that i i one of my main objectives with putting my face on the book was if people if i ever get the privilege to meet people they're gonna go wow whoa they really really glamor shot at you

know our team does a great job so it's it's good it's exciting stuff fun times yeah fun times so check it all out at ramseysolutions.com meantime here the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five manissa is with us in austin texas hi menissa how are you hi dave i'm doing good how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

so i was calling because you don't know this but you your book helped me to get out of credit card debt good for you thank you i started with my by myself trying to to take care of myself and then i showed my my parents but they were skeptics and my mom finally got on board and then my dad got on board so we we no longer have credit card debt um however now we're in the dilemma where the house that we purchased

was a wreck so we had to sell it to an investor and we're in limbo we don't have anywhere to go the the housing market is so bad we

keep getting outbid for houses and we tried buying a trailer house and there's issue with land so i'm i'm thinking i needed to go there regularly too to find out how do i invest so that i can

build my wealth i i know i i you're one

of one of the sections in your book says to get an emergency fund and then do 401 of course i had already had my 401 and but i for some reason i can't get the thousand dollars i can't even get a hundred dollars and i don't know what that is so i was hoping maybe you can leave me in the right direction okay uh who's we your parents and you are doing all this together yes i try to do it on my own like after i read the book i mean i mean you're like you're like the house you own you own with your parents yes we did but we we had to sell it because it was so it's sold so you don't currently own a house with your parents no sir we were trying to buy good don't don't don't own a house with your parents how old are you i'm 52.

yeah i completely agree with you okay good then don't do it they agree with you yeah so how much of the money did you get money from the sale of the other property because we had to sell to a home investor we didn't really get that much but we have fifteen thousand dollars you have how much um fifteen thousand dollars okay and so you have 7 500 for them and 7 500 for you right uh well they can have all of it i i mean you're going to give them all of it okay then what do you make a year um about 41 000.

there's a them and a you yes there's no we yes sir okay so you make 41 000 a year

and how did you pay off credit card debt

well um so you got on a budget and you found money in the budget and you put it on the credit cards right well uh what i did was that we took all of the bills and the one that was the lowest we just split the the balance three ways and we we paid that and then we paid we did that for each one of the bills until

we got them all paid off okay all right so you found a money in your personal income to apply to the debt correct yes yes sir so that's how you do your thousand dollars only now it's gonna be you and you need to go find an inexpensive place to rent give them the fifteen thousand set up your life and begin to work the baby steps with a written budget you're not doing a budget

and you need to start doing a budget immediately so get on every dollar and download the the world's best budgeting app and get your get your budget going to where you are doing this but monisa you have to separate you can love mom and dad but you're 52 years old time to move out

of your mother's basement time to quit sharing bills with your mom and dad it is way past time unless you have some kind of a a mental disorder that doesn't enable you to live on your own but you need to do that and you need to do it now and i don't think you do based on talking to you yeah i i would just add one thing

when he said i want you to ask yourself you said they need me but i wonder how much you need them and you're not even aware of how much they're a safety net for you for you not to truly fly and to do what you're supposed to be doing i think you've got to really confront that i think at 52 it's time as dave said for you to strike out

and do your own thing and at 41 000

a year you can get that a thousand dollar emergency fund pretty quickly yeah and move through this and before you know it be truly in a great place financially get the least expensive thing don't buy a trailer they go down in value get the least expensive thing you can get to rent get yourself started get and take all the extra jobs you can take and get on a written budget

and begin to build the thousand dollars and then work your way on up through all of the baby steps and you'll be just fine you can do this this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author with his new book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love is answering your career and job questions i'm answering your money questions we're answering your life questions together you jump in the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

ahmed as ahmed is with us ahmed in green bay wisconsin hi how are you hi dave uh i'm doing good how are you better than i deserve what's up so currently i'm trying to transition from just working as a gig worker i'm trying to get into the cyber security field and i was wondering if i should get a degree or just work on it on my

own and get certification that way certification uh there is no evidence anywhere and i would welcome your research to prove me wrong there's no research that would bear out that a degree is going to help you get into cyber security faster and make more money in fact there's such a demand in this industry and it is white hot it is probably the most uh not just

fastest growing but the most opportunity long term with cyber security and i i endorse a program called bethel tech and they can train you in nine months for if you cash flow less than thirteen thousand dollars that's just one example do your homework look at other people as well but you don't need a degree to get into cyber security if you get certified and while you're getting certified

you are making connections in the field talking to folks that are working in cyber security getting ideas from them at companies that are hiring directions to go within cyber security those two things getting certified and getting connected is all you need to do to get in a four-year information systems degree is an excellent degree field the technical items you learn while doing that are obsolete by the time

you finish the degree yeah they're of no value i've got we got a thousand team members here i've got an in-depth security teams internet cyber security team obviously we've got a lot of web presence and a lot of risk

and so we spend a lot of time and money on cyber security and a four-year degree

in information systems is not a requirement to join a team our size we do look for the certifications in this and we do want to see uh that you've got some kind of hands-on experience actually fighting to keep the hackers out which is the full-time freaking job these days but um yeah ken's exactly

right this is not a four-year degree world the technology field in general is not a four-year degree world if you want to get it that's fine but what you're after there is if what you're after is the ability to get hired it's not necessary as a matter of fact it's not even preferable because what you're learning is processes and concepts not the technical hands-on application because the stuff

you learn today a year and a half from now be obsolete you've got to have your hands on this stuff to know what's going on in that world you blink and it all changes again uh you know how your computer is uh obsolete ken you got it out of the box isn't that the truth that's how about how it works this freaking thing's a door stop six months later that's right

the number of times i replace technology around here is unbelievable the money we spend just to stay not on cutting edge but just to stay up to speed cyber security included but even hardware issues as well bobby's with us in columbia south carolina hey bobby welcome to the ramsay show hey dave uh and it's george right ah this is ken today but i'll answer it with me george was with me yesterday

and dave i just want to say thank you both um george is nicer than ken yeah yeah i can't i can't argue that he's the nicest person on the planet he is yeah he's nicer than all of us that's good stuff good personality qualities right there right yeah okay sorry about all that how can we help i'm basically you know recommended to you from a previous boss and a longtime friend of mine uh you know very humble man uh man of god brandon blake thank you very much i hope you hear this um i'm kind of in a pickle right now dave i'm 24 years old i'm a young father i got a three-year-old i'll be three in december absolute pride and joy in my life and my biggest form of motivation um and my wife and me we're still together um i'm currently living with some relatives and i've been here for about seven months uh my wife was working full-time and just switched to staying at home to watching her son while i work full time i just got a really nice job the best one i've had since i've been working in the professional field 401k offered paid time off bonus structure things of that nature i'm in a very weird position though with how to take you know i'm very young with my professional career i want to set up my foundation with investing properly as we stand right now my debt i only have about twenty thousand dollars of debt seventeen thousand dollars in student loans about two thousand dollars in medical bills and how much do you make um thirty five thousand dollars a year um if my bonus comes out the way that it should this next year will be at forty working 40 hours 40 hours a week yes sir your baby's how old uh he'll be three in december december 6.

what was your wife doing before she quit

she was working as a cake decorator for lowe's foods um and has since lost her position uh mainly due to it was during covid so it got pretty hectic

um and right now she's just staying at home and interestingly enough she also has an international business degree four-year university from rollins but she doesn't have any direct experience working in the field um not even a job like a starting job that would even be relatable to that yeah

what's the pickle that you're in you've given us a lot of details what's the pickle my pickle is i have two options right now um you know eventually inevitably i want to move out um my mom and dad are generous enough to allow me a little allow me to live rent free um so i think i'm having is living expenses and a couple other payments um but i need to figure out you know if i mean obviously saving money is what needs to happen um but where to put that money is the question no there's not a question you're you're broke and you're living with your parents you need to pile up some money in a savings account and get out of there yeah you don't need to start don't worry about investing and don't start your 401k you're broken in debt and you guys have got to do something in this household to increase your incomes so since you're only working 40 hours you need an extra job and your wife needs to start doing some freaking cake decorating while she's at home with a three-year-old yeah no you're right you're not wrong dave um and i guess my next question is you know to make my the smartest decision possible um you know my credit score is pretty good at 700.

thought process was getting either a mortgage on a house no you're broke you need to go get a one bedroom or a two-bedroom apartment as cheap as you can get and you need to pile up cash as much as you can and you need to be working 80 hours a week and she needs to start working 30 hours a week when the kids down so she can get some other income coming in

you guys need to get your income up 50 to 70 000 immediately and start paying these debts off and get out from under your parents roof yesterday

yes sir my question is in regards to the rent with renting i mean as you know rental properties the money you put in goes into a hole you don't get it back honey you're broke you're a renter you don't buy a house when you're broke you are broke and in debt you make thirty five thousand dollars a year and have a three-year-old you're 24 years old you don't go buy a house right now

this house will be a curse to you you're trying to mix long-term issues in with your short-term emotions and you need to get the short-term stuff taken care of you need a big pile of money for an emergency and to move and to get out and you guys need to get your incomes up and then you begin to attack the debt and when the debt is gone

you build an emergency fund a fully funded big emergency fund of three to six months of expenses then we'll start talking about saving for a house you're not buying a house for three two to three years from today if you're wise it's just hard dave because you know with rent it's not hard an additional it's not hard you're 24

you'll be 27 when you own your first house it's not hard at all yeah somebody has told you that renting is throwing money away and you can't get past that thought and it's simply not throwing money away for two years when stacy and i moved here to join dave this was the move for me we took two years and rented

because we wanted to make sure we were going to the right place we wanted to make sure that we were going to lock in and and dive in and we had to save money to be able to get the kind of house that we felt that we wanted to get we weren't throwing money away that's a false narrative and you're not hearing the wisdom and the truth here that dave just gave

you the baby steps work every time but only if you get this mindset out of your head that renting is wasting money renting is buying patience while you're too broke to buy oh that's good

you're buying you're buying time and honey you're you're so broke you live with your parents that's how broke you are you don't need to go from that to owning a home you you need to get out get the debts paid off build up an emergency fund build a foundation for your young family

slow your butt down you're okay you got plenty of time this is the ramsey shop

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ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage richie and carol

are with us hey guys how are you doing good how about you better than i deserve welcome where do you guys live knoxville tennessee knoxville all right good people i was born just south of there in maryville marvel you have to say that correctly yes all right so how much debt have you guys paid off we paid off seventy nine thousand five hundred and fifteen dollars and fifty cents all right how long did

this take it took us 23 months good for you and your range of income in that two years um we started off at 58

000 and then we're on track this year to be at about 108 000. wow there we go what do you guys do for a living i'm an elementary school music teacher and i'm in sales okay so worth the extra 50 grand in income i mean you doubled your freaking income we did um so i started off in a smaller job with not so much pay and then um right after the

coveted pandemic when school started opening up i was hired into my teaching position oh so you got like a full big job pretty much yeah you're not you're working like part time kind of uh yeah pretty much yes and sales is good obviously it's god's ups and downs yeah okay all right so eighty thousand dollars in debt what was it what kind of debt it was a little bit of everything

we um it was credit cards car truck uh motorcycles loans crews we paid off a cruise so you guys were like normal we were so normal we bought everything on debt yes we did unfortunately look at you awesome

okay so what happened two years ago how y'all been married uh six and a half years okay so uh after four years of marriage or three years of marriage someone says this ramsay stuff we gotta try tell me how this happened what happened so um it happened a little bit before um i had found out about you um

through some friends and so i started listening to your podcast um looking through all your tools and everything and i told him i said hey let's try this he's like no i'm not interested no i don't want to do this and then about two years ago um he had an emergency appendectomy oh and so i was sitting in the emergency room waiting and i was like there's no way

because with my income if something worse were to happen we couldn't be able to pay our bills we and i was i was in freakout mode um and

so when we got home from the appendectomy i looked at him and i said we have to do now that you lived if you don't do this i'm gonna kill you yeah yeah pretty much

and so um that was kind of our i had it moment um and so since then we

really really buckled down um it took him a little bit to get on board but i mean first couple times i'd you know she was just like let's try this dave ramsey thing and um i was just like no i just i was stubborn just like everybody else is well i'm a salesman i always tried to outsell my stupidity and right i just tried to out earn it right yeah and so after uh after the the surgery i

was just like okay let's give it a shot and we started off we had a little bit of money put back and we paid off one of our credit cards and as soon as i paid off that credit card i've got a massive adrenaline rush and i was just like okay what else can we pay off and it just kind of went from there he was fine yes yes yes that's

when he finally was on board um and then we finally were able to start really getting some debt paid off so i was catching the youtube uh feed through my peripheral vision while i was looking at y'all i saw the motorcycle pop up did you keep it or did you sell it no i actually sold it to pay off uh the hospital the appendectomy oh she told me

she said it's not a good trade no no that's an appendix for a motorcycle

well we um that was part of our debt we paid off the motorcycle and then we turned around and sold it to pay off the medical debt what did it sell for it looks like a great bike it uh i sold it for 2500. oh wow and that that covered

everything and i told her when i sold it naturally i said so we pay this off and

after we're debt-free yeah i want to buy another bike and she said okay absolutely yeah a better one fund for that so pay cash for it yeah that's that's what you live like no one else later you can live like no one else exactly ride like no one else later you can ride like no one else yes that's good way to go man cool very cool thank

you so you guys just when you once that adrenaline hit you leaned in and 23 months later boom boom we did there was some struggles of course what was the biggest struggle uh probably um having to say no a lot and

being like no we can't go out no we can't do this or do that no we don't need that even though your friends look at you like you lost your mind they did they were like what just go out and have fun everyone's going to be in debt everyone's going to have debt just go out and have fun and we're like no we don't want to do that

we don't want to be in debt anymore it's wearing us down it's worn us down our entire marriage and we just don't want to do it anymore so i i love when when couples share the struggle i want to know in your situation what did you two do for each other or individually to keep pressing on through the struggle what kept you moving we um we had to be each other's rock yes

there were times where he wanted to quit where i was like no we're doing so well we have to do this we have to keep going there were times i wanted to quit and he said no no we can't you know we just we really had to push each other to keep going um i mean

and and we would pull up the podcast we would listen um dave we watched your story a lot on youtube about where you came from and where you're at now we said brought me in tears every single time to hear the story so it was just one of those things where we had to remind ourselves what we're doing it for um so later on when we have kids of our own that

they don't have to live like we did i love that i want to ask you take me to one of those moments well either one of you i don't care but what did you say i know that you were each other's rock but what was that thing maybe that you said besides watching dave's story and seeing that desire future certainly that's motivating but what'd you say to each other hey stick with us what'd

you say we would be out somewhere it didn't matter what story went to if we wanted to buy something that we knew we could take that 20 40 50 whatever towards debt

and naturally my immediate response is because i want her to you know she wants to buy something i want her to have sure naturally and at the end of the day i would be like you know if you want it by and then we'd sit there and stare at each other and be like what would dave say we would we would be like we would we would get down

and kind of a well i'm tired i don't want to do this anymore and we would be like what would dave say like what would dave do at this point and i think that kind of kept us going a lot and also i mean it's like this past weekend i had a funeral i had to go to

my uncle passed away in hernando florida so we drove there and back and the 10-hour drive back i can promise you we had 10 hours of dave ramsey in the car oh my gosh we did i don't even want to be in the car and it also took a lot of prayer too a lot of prayer good luck trust you know god telling us so you did

it all off the podcast or the total money makeover book or financial piece university we did financial peace university oh yeah we did it um in our home we didn't do the class um i think during the pandemic well yeah online yeah and so we didn't during the pandemic most mostly when we watched it sure um but that really helped us to kind of figure out our direction

and where we need to go so proud of y'all thank you y'all are amazing what a great couple thank you you just really you got the right spirit on you you're going to be able to do anything you want to do you're on your way to being baby steps millionaires before you know it now that you hit this stride so very very well done we got a copy of

the legacy journey for you to celebrate that next chapter and a copy total money makeover for you to give away to somebody help get them started because you've been talking about this you can't shut up about it i actually gave um i gave the total money makeover book to a co-worker of mine she was struggling and when i gave it to her she did like what anybody else would do even i've done

it put the book aside yeah i asked her i said have you read the book and she said no i haven't read it yet i said okay now i'd come back next day hey have you picked up the book yet she says no and so finally i met her at work one day and she said hey i wanted to tell you something i said what's that she said that book that

you and carol gave me i said yes she said me and my husband were having a um a struggle a fuss over money we don't have any money right now and i said okay and she said i prayed to god and asked him to help me and she said god told me i

gave you a book [Laughter] all right guys count it down eighty thousand dollars paid off in 23 months make it 58 to 108.

let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're

i debt-free it

i already gave you a book wow that'll preach this is the ramsay show [Music]

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well last week was launch day on ken coleman's new book from paycheck to purpose they were shipped to your mailbox if you'd ordered one if you haven't gotten one yet you can get it now we'll ship it to you immediately the clear path to doing work you love and then yesterday we released pre-sale on the first book i have done in eight years it is called baby steps millionaires how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too it's all about step-by-step how to

exactly become a millionaire and i prove to you without without beyond a shadow of a doubt that you c that you you know i'm talking to you that you can do this that's pretty cool it's not out of reach it's doable so if you want to pre-order this book actually comes out january the 11th but it went on sale on pre-sale yesterday when you pre-purchase a ramsey book

we typically bribe you to buy it early by giving you a whole bunch of goodies and this is no exception baby steps millionaire audio book and ebook is included in the twenty dollars the legacy journey audio book and ebook is included in the twenty dollars the baby steps millionaires live stream event in january is included in the twenty dollars a ramsey smart tax tax

filing is included for free in the

twenty dollars and a thirty day free trial for ramsey plus is included in the twenty dollars it's over a hundred almost two hundred dollars worth of stuff included when you buy a twenty dollar book now that's pretty cool so be sure and check all of that out danielle is with us in philadelphia hi danielle welcome to the ramsay show hi there hi what's up

so a little over a year ago i married my longtime

boyfriend and we're not young we're late 40s early 50s and

we still have two houses now a year later because his house is an hour and a half away from my job i spend about 240 dollars a month in

gasoline going back and forth i don't do it every day how far is your house from his job um maybe two hours so you guys work you guys work two hours apart yes that's wild his his his job is actually an hour and a half from his house as well but he's willing to make that sacrifice i i'm not i think i think it's cray cray

i think you need to sell both these houses and buy a house close to your jobs well i agree with that however i have been in the mindset lately of well perhaps maybe i could

look for a job closer but my dilemma is that i have been working in the school district for 25 years as a custodial supervisor and i make about 68 000 a year

my concern is going someplace else and not making that kind of money i work my way up to where i am now there's also another reason i keep my house because i have extended family

also living in this house right now

why um my daughter had two young children and she got a divorce and was only making about 13 an hour so she had a hard time maintaining anything

and um so you're paying a house payment for her correct so when's she gonna get on her feet well she just got a promotion uh she started last week and it should bump her up to about twenty dollars come next month you need a plan for her to be on her own and you just sell that house and you guys ought to sell the house that you live in and you ought to move closer to both of your jobs

this is tough his job he's making over a hundred thousand so and he's just a bus driver in new york city so um okay so hold on i gotta jump in i'm going crazy so both of you make good money and you both are assuming that you can't do anything else so i want to i want to frame what you've been doing a little differently you're not just a supervisor of custodians in a education system

you are a leader of people in a specific area you're a leader oh it's true oh it's absolutely true well listen i'm the queen around here i know you are and here's the deal you got a lot of experience i just heard some sass come out we are in the hottest job market in the history of the united states and you have something to offer years and years of experience of leading people that are in uh

you know the traditional custodial roles and things of that nature there's a lot of options for you out there i would also say we have the greatest need in the history of the united states in the area of drivers whether it be uh your traditional 18 wheelers or other

we have a supply chain problem and i saw an article just last week there's a need

right now in the united states daniel for 80 000 truck drivers if he's driving a bus in manhattan he can drive something else you guys have got to get outside of this mindset that we can't make what we make or more somewhere else

because i don't believe that's true and you at least owe it to yourselves to do the research yeah investigate see what else is out there i mean you're like there's only one kind of spaghetti but you've never been to more than one restaurant that's right i mean go check out some spaghetti restaurants keto go look at the jobs that are on the plate out there and see what's happening

you have a lot of experience and skill to offer and not to mention you're the queen that's right well that comes that the royalty part should go a long way i like that yeah and here's the other thing a house is a stupid house yeah i ain't driving an hour and a half for a stupid house oh that's too short get you another stupid house there's stupid houses on every corner

and this idea that you know i'm not well i've always lived so what sell it i am not driving an hour and a half over a job or a piece of real estate all of these things can change and we didn't even discuss the potential financial gain from those two houses yeah assuming what their what their position is in them absolutely we got to get daughter up

and out so she can sell that other house but still oh my gosh y'all there's a lot of stuff going on here and you guys are holding on to the past so tightly you're not going to live well in the future yeah the past job history the past i worked so hard to get here so use that to go into something else i've always lived here so use that to get into something else don't hold on to

the past so tight that you lose your future all right jeff is with us in tulsa oklahoma hi jeff how are you

hi dave thanks so much for taking my call i really appreciate your time we're honored how can we help well i'm 56 years old and we're in baby

step seven and i heard you say something recently that got me to thinking and that is that social security basically is a break even if that and i was wondering what the advantages or disadvantages would be like if i were to take out my social security uh as early as i can 62.65 whatever the age is and invest that 62 and money it and don't touch it you'll end up with more money yes sir that's what'll happen that's my question yeah

so the difference in what you get paid if you wait to 65 versus 62 would be made up for in the investment that you create

by investing everything from 62 to 65.

you take all that put into a lump sum that lump sum will pay more than it would pay extra if you wait oh and when you die that money is in your estate when you die with social security it disappears magical government math

just gone poof just like that oh yeah

yeah yeah the social insecurity system gives you a negative rate of return

it is an absolute governmental disaster think dmv runs retirement program now

you got it figured out okay this is what's going on and and so well it was never designed to be retired programs designed to be a supplemental yeah it's designed to be supplemental and a whole bunch of people are living on it because we've raised a couple generations now that think the government is so smart they're going to take care of you and if you wait on

the government to take care of you your life is always going to suck so he's right just really smart to ask that question and say i'm not going to count on social insecurity when i get to retirement because i'm going to have actually saved some of my own money oh and when i do get the money from the government i'll never get as much out as i have put in

that means you have a negative rate of return you don't even get out as much as you put in unless you just live to 192 you know and so you're it's a negative rate of return they are sucking the blood out of the american public continually with this disaster of a program nobody gonna do anything about it though but i'll whine a little it's good for me yeah helps my blood pressure yeah ken coleman good show

this hour and uh james child's gonna show this hour jenna on the phones good job this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and author of the brand new book from paycheck to purpose

the clear path to doing work you love is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five kelsey is with us in connecticut hi kelsey how are you hi dave hi ken this is exciting i wasn't expecting this today well we're honored to have you how can we help um i have a career question

so my boss has just asked me if i wanted to take over her small business it's a gym i'm a personal trainer but i was actually planning to join the air force in the next year and now i i just feel lost like i don't know what opportunity to do oh well this is a fun place to be in uh but i think we've got to simplify

this so your head and heart were totally focused on going into the air force for a future there and when your boss hits you with this it felt really good didn't it felt nice that she would trust you enough and it felt very nice correct

yeah yeah yeah good but after that wore off and you begin to really wrestle with well wait a second i think i was heading over here what was your heart telling you right before you made this phone call which way were you leaning because i know you were leaning one way yeah so i've really been leaning towards the air force i've i've actually been thinking about that since last um last march i've just been like head

and heart in there i just couldn't do it sooner because of medical reasons good but um so here's the deal i just so

here's the deal are you worried about letting your boss down or are you worried maybe what others might say about turning this on paper really amazing opportunity to run a business what's really making you question what you know you want to do that's what you have to answer right now what is what is causing the doubt about the military decision

um it's a woman's gym and i'm afraid that if i don't take it over it's going to close and i just care about the members a lot got it okay that's amazing now kelsey you got to be careful here to not misinterpret what is a really beautiful heart you're a good person and you have built relationships with those women you care about them you've invested in them and if you're not careful that false guilt

is going to turn into resentment if you were to do this and take this all for the right heart reasons you will be delaying and maybe

completely moving on from the thing that you know you're supposed to do and i'm telling you that will eventually turn into resentment and you have no reason to feel guilt about not taking this business those women will find other places to work out you didn't open it you didn't open it and it's not your responsibility to take care of their physical life do you understand what i'm saying yeah

it makes it makes a lot of sense i think like i talked to my family about it and of course my family's just gonna tell me to do what you know what i should do but i i just needed like an honest not family family-oriented opinion to kind of steer me in the right direction let's refocus for just a moment tell me in 30 seconds or less from your heart what

the future is because you're moving into the air force what's that look like and why are you doing it um the opportunity to travel meet a lot of new people go different places and

um just serve our country which is something i've been thinking about for a while that's that's all you need to focus on there's no guilt here you do what you believe you're supposed to do there's no guilt those ladies are gonna be fine one of them can take it and run it yeah

you're free kelsey that would do it yeah thank you yeah thanks for the call thank you for being willing to serve our country you're a great american absolutely yeah absolutely incredible well done all right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five tyler's in fayetteville arkansas hi

tyler how are you good how are you dave better than i deserve what's up so um my main question is so i'm in the military right now and what i'm kind of struggling with is whether or not i should purchase a home while i'm on active duty or wait until i transition to the reserves right now that looks like a six year timeline just to give you some stats i have no debt i have about three hundred thousand dollars invested um with a tsp two roth

iras and a taxable brokerage account good for you um yeah oh thank you how much is in the bra

i have about 190 000 in there i believe way to go all

right and how how often will they move you and during the next six years while you're still active duty so i'm in yeah i'm in fort bragg right now in fayetteville and i will move in about three years and i eventually uh after my sixth year want to transition to the reserves and go to where my parents yep yeah so you don't need to buy and it's not

because you don't have the money you have the money but the problem is you're going to be moving and you're in an area that the uh the properties are largely military properties and so you've got a lot of properties coming on the market because they're always moving people and uh it's a little tougher to move a property in one of these military towns

agreed oh i agree oh i absolutely agree

that's what i was thinking too because my parents actually just recently moved to nashville and um knowing how the

housing market is there me and my wife are trying to decide whether or not to just keep investing and piling cash and then have a ginormous down payment yes and

then buy buy once you've settled into a place once you settle into wherever it is you're settling into and it's probably after your military career when you move into the reserves after your active duty career and thanks for your service because you're moving so often that you the house is not going to go up enough in value and it's hard to sell them sometimes and you can get stuck with properties everywhere you've been stationed

and so when you're moving every two to three years almost always it's better off to rent and just pile up some cash over here for when you settle in now some branches of the military some jobs in the military after a while in the career you will settle in and be in one location even while active duty for a long time if you're going to be there a while like five years plus

then yeah you just start talking about buying but most of you guys and gals are moved every two to three years and most of these markets do not support enough turnover and do not support a price increase to justify buying when you're only holding two to three years you'll lose money on the transaction if you can sell it or you'll get stuck with the thing and end up with rental properties dotted all over

the nation and you don't want to do that so but again thank you for your service as well yeah his theme is one of my favorite scenes from braveheart where the the english are thundering down the cavalry on wallace and his men

and he says hold hold hold and that's gonna be a great position when you get out exactly right exactly right i love it this is the ramsey show

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org budget we absolutely believe in it

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well we're coming into that time of year when some people get all stressed out about money it's called christmas

the gifts the travel expenses the extra food the bills oh and life still has to go on but what if money was something that you never had to fret about stress about worry about again what if christmas was actually like enjoyable and stuff

well you'd need a plan to cause that to happen and we can show you how to do it

it's called financial peace university this is the place where we teach you how to handle money how to get out of debt

how to build wealth how to be outrageously generous how to live on a budget how to live on a plan it's the class you should have been made to take back when you're in high school but back then nobody made you take it financial peace university and our premium version of every dollar the world's best budgeting app goes with

financial peace university when you become a ramsey plus member it gives you access to all of this stuff and much more if you want a free trial of ramsay plus to try all this out go to

slash ramseysolutions.com plus our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more it's an incredible american company blinds.com

use ramsey to get the best deal today's question comes from daniel in maine i got a job at a major law firm after my first year of law school i am now a third year law student and the firm i work for wants to hire me after graduation i would like to own my own law firm someday and feel like gaining experience in a smaller firm would be better to prepare me to achieve that goal would

i be crazy to reject a higher paying job at a respected law firm to pursue my dreams you wouldn't be crazy but i want to challenge this thought that you saying no to this bigger firm uh and going to work for a smaller firm is going to somehow prepare you to run your own firm better because you picture it being a smaller firm i actually think that

i would consider what you could learn from working for a bigger firm and understanding the complexities of the business and i think that's just as relevant as you would scale down eventually running your own firm so i i don't know that this is the actual right narrative that well if i work for a smaller firm that's going to better prepare me to run my own small firm one day

i think leadership is leadership organization is organization and i think you'd learn in some ways more from a larger firm and getting to know their leaders and those partners and learning from them taking the higher pay and then if you feel like that you can get something unique from a smaller firm let's move to that eventually so i wouldn't assume this is the right choice either way you've got to learn how to run a business that's correct

and so the more time you spend being a lawyer and the less time you spend on actually building business acumen regardless of which location you're in that's going to take away from your dream so your dream is you need to become a great lawyer but also learn how to run a law firm the

business practices of that so

i think you could get the the business acumen like ken is saying either place you've just got to be very intentional about it you're going to run into the dichotomy that anyone that has a a specific discipline or skill runs into

if you paint houses and you do a really good job and you want to be a painter and you want to own your own painting contracting firm running a painting contracting firm is different than painting that's a running of business that's a different set of skills and so the more you paint houses the less you will learn about running a business and the more chances of you failing running that business become so anybody that's a maker anyone that's a doer like a lawyer

even a doctor yep the more time you spend actually being a doctor and not

actually running the practice they're two different things and you can't make enough to out earn your stupidity so you've got to learn these business skills that's correct regardless of which place you are and the law the smaller firm could eat you up as a lawyer and take up all your time lawyering as much as the larger firm does so you just got to be intentional about wherever

you are learning the business skills yeah and so i think i'm with ken i think you took the higher paying job i do too i i just think that's better because there's some complexities at the larger firm that you're going to learn about amanda's in nashville hi amanda welcome to the ramsay show hi how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world um not a lot

i just had a quick question and i wanted to press this by saying that i do follow your plan but i've been trying to diagnose the medical condition for the past year so as you have a larger savings than you would approve of

my question is should i refinance my house to pay off my student loans or should i sell it pay off the mortgage should pay off the student loans and then rent until i can buy again my husband and i

okay a lot going on here how much is your student loan debt uh 137.

what's your degree in uh my husband is a chiropractor i'm a medical assistant okay and what does he make he makes around 110 i think is it your

student loan or his it's his oh okay he makes 110.

all right and um

interesting and and you make how much um i make somewhere around 30. but the household last year i think we brought home 122 not mistaken

it's going up this year have 130 000 in student loan debt yeah 137 137 okay and 63 and savings all together so

you not being able to work is not going to because the your income is a the smaller portion of your household income right yes and i i'm not you're met you that have a medical condition or him it's him oh it's him

oh so yeah we're both able to work so you're piling the money up because waiting on what this diagnosis for him might be what has he got what's going on with him um i'd rather not say it's just something that we've had to do a couple of diagnostics on in the past year

okay well depending on how debilitating it is and how sure the diagnosis is correct is uh the more debilitating and the more sure you are the more i'm just selling the house i'm not refinancing and borrowing your way out of the debt either way yeah our thought process there was that we would be able to lower the interest rate it's not an interest rate problem it's a debt problem okay

and you have a huge pile of debt so if you sold your home would it pay off the student loan and the home oh yeah everything and you'd be free okay so if he's not going to be able to earn that kind of income to be able to pay off the student loan

by being a chiropractor that he took out getting into that he took out to become a chiropractor because of this medical diagnosis yeah you need to sell the house to reset and to get yourself positioned to weather this health storm

okay now the the other question is this um or the other thing to bring up and because i you intentionally are i've got an incomplete picture because you're concerned about privacy and i that's okay all right but let me let me give you two other pieces of information that might enter into this when is are these uh federal student loans uh yes they are right now okay well they need to stay federal student loans because if he were to pass away they are

forgiven

okay well it's not anything that's serious it's just more of a yeah if he were be to be declared permanently disabled that's not going to happen either okay so it's not that extreme okay that's good yeah that's nothing extreme good okay so you're gonna pay them so the only question is how long is he to be with and you got you just had you guys have to assess

this the longer he's going to be out of work or have hugely diminished income the more i'm going to lean towards selling the house but if it's a one-year thing and you want to hold on that's fine hold on put the student loans on hardship deferral come back from the mess and get the income back up and attack the student loans and get rid of them i'd be okay with that yeah

i think the other factor here is how expensive could the treatment be i felt like there was a little hint towards that and that's why i'd still sell the house sets you free you got plenty of cash plenty of freedom and income to be able to pay for the treatment well when you come back and you're making you're making a hundred thousand dollars again after the other side of

this and just buy another house i agree that'd be an okay thing to do too this is the ramsay show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage marcia and cameron are

with us hey guys how are you great how you doing yeah welcome where do you guys live uh fort branch indiana just outside of evansville all right well we got to get started with i love the t-shirts be the third pig the back is even better what's it say on the back we're debt free

that's right brick house be the pig in the brick house the third pig i love it

way to go you guys you're prepared for the big bad wolf excellent all right how much debt have you paid off uh we paid off uh 120 000 very good how long did that take uh about three years once we really got working together okay and what was your range of income during that three years um 90 up to 1 30. cool what do y'all do

for a living uh i manage a home improvement center and i'm the founder and executive director of non-profit benefiting kids in foster care oh good very good great good job you guys okay what kind of debt was the 000 well we were very normal we had uh student loans credit cards medical debt

and uh most recently our house wow

yes we did super weirdo i'm looking at weird people looking at weird third pigs i like it so uh what's this house worth uh 225 ish

that's so fun your house is paid for dude it feels weird yeah it's just strange i love it the grass feels better under your feet

yeah ken and i have a good friend down in atlanta just sent us a video this morning he paid off his house showed us hitting the hit and submit on the computer and then you see their feet out in the grass like euros youtube picture just a second ago here yeah the grass feels different under your feet when you pay for it way to go guys thank you thank you so very cool all right there's a story here how long you been married 13 years okay so three years ago you got

serious yes and you said you you did qualify you said when we finally got together and both of us were doing it we got serious it went zoom zoom tell us what happened and tell us how you got plugged into ramsey well our story goes back probably 10 years

i'm probably the the textbook example of of how not to do things i stumbled upon your radio show just driving one day and kind of dabbled in it didn't really you know go full force into the baby steps or anything but i started listening to you and and your principles made a lot of sense so i started doing some of the the steps and doing some of

the things and my mistake was i did not bring her in on it so although i was making a little bit of progress it was really creating a pinch point and a stress in our marriage because we weren't operating off of the same page and i'm over here trying to do one thing and she's doing another thing and it just it wasn't working out so well and a little bit of backstory to that is

when we we lived in kokomo indiana it was a 2008 during the

housing crash or flip or whatever it was and um we he's going to tell you a little bit more about that but but i guess what i was trying to say was uh dave ramsey was not a good word it was what would you say a cuss word in our family yeah um and i was i was the free

spirit that wanted to do whatever i wanted to do and i was even though we talked about what you were the plan i was i was not having it no not at all so what happened that caused you to get together and decide to do it together um well going back near to the beginning of our story uh near there anyway um we were upside down on a house by a lot and we got we moved my job moved us so

we were in a position where we were way underwater on our house and fortunately my parents have always

been a big help to us and my dad loaned

me some money about twenty thousand dollars just to be able to sell our house and you know write the check to get out of it um and then you know fast forward we were gonna pay him back it was alone and uh that very next christmas after christmas dinner my dad sat us down and

said that his present to us was we didn't know him that money back anymore wow so um that really did it for me that was kind of my why because you know it really got me thinking you know if i ever want to be in a position to be able to bless my kids and my family like that then i really need to do something different than i've been doing so i don't know really what was it that three years ago really put us on it together so another important fact in

10 years ago we actually owed 216 000

dollars so we came a long way as we as we marched forward uh to three years ago um but three years ago he he was just so

excited about your principles and he's he started he started teaching fbu classes and uh and and sitting in that class he invited me to really be hands-on and part of it and and i had started listening to him and your principles and and i got excited myself and i became the i don't want to sit at this table and talk about this i don't like that name in my house i want to buy whatever i want to like come on guys you can do this and um and really the the where we

got gazelle intense was um during the pandemic uh just a little over i guess it's been like 15 months now but my dad was um he was dying and uh he did not leave a good family tree as far as finances and and we were really left with a huge mess and then i have my own um medical issues that that i was told that i was a big high-risk complications from kovid

and i just it just really was an eye-opener that i have two amazing kids and what if something happened to one of us in this time how would i what would that mean for my family and um and that was it like i was sold i didn't care from then on else if we were eating rice and beans being the rice we were getting everything paid off

and so i called him at work one day and i said let's do this we can do this and we're here we did this and we're grateful and he's like who are you and what have you done with my wife

way to go you guys yeah i just want to know i mean obviously we heard the whole backstory i want to know you get really fired up right and so now we've got big motivators yeah what was the hardest part once you actually got into it because there's that initial high this must be done right conviction and at what point did you start to struggle or did

you struggle and what'd you do to get out of that yeah we did i think the biggest thing was it was so different you know we'd never it was the first time in our marriage that you know we had really been on the same page and focusing on the same common goal and there's unbelievable power in that you know we did it for so long um you know

i i we were talking on the way down here i felt like i was you know repairing holes in the boat while she's on the other end drilling bigger ones and and you know so just once we really grasped the concept and started working together it was so different than anything we'd ever done that it took us a while to kind of adjust to that and getting accustomed to using a budget

and following the every dollar budget but you know really once we started on that same page together it was game on very cool i used to be the kind of person that i'd get a couple hundred dollars from a bonus or something i'd be like oh he didn't know and i'm shoving that in the drawer because i'm going to go shopping and he'd see it when it showed up on amazon right on my front door or wherever that was from

and it just became you know what we have extra money let's do something intentional with it let's be intense and it was it was really just getting on the same page and actually i was sharing this this story with somebody a couple weeks ago about being able to be on this stage and share such a a big win for our family and changing the family tree and um

and i said you know what i think another big motivator was knowing this is not like something that somebody else can do we can do this every day people

can do it if you if you do it on purpose and i have to give a plug to my son here let's get the kids in what are their names and ages uh jackson and harmony okay so jackson twelve and seven twelve and seven so jackson is is i think he was born a nerd like his dad um and we gave him the give save spend

pigs many years ago and he was really diligent about giving and saving giving and saving and um he is going to be 13 in february and by his 13th birthday he is going to have a toyota camry paid for with less miles than my vehicle and a 3 000 savings account well done

very impressive all right marcia cameron jackson and harmony harmony from evansville indiana 120 000 paid off in three years making 90 to 130 be the

third pig house and everything count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three

two one we're dead free

wow what a complete transformation

and the reluctant spouse goes in to help with financial peace university whoop whoop there it is

this is the ramsay show [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show he's a number one best-selling author and his brand new book is out from paycheck to purpose the clear path

to doing work you love patty is with us in boise idaho hi patty welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you for taking my call sure you had a call a few minutes ago that piqued my interest and i'm trying to understand my husband is losing his job on friday

because he won't take the covet shot and his company is firing everybody that will not do it they're not doing exemptions or anything he is almost 62 he'll be 62 in just a

couple of months and we're trying i'm 51 or 51 so i'm a

little bit younger than he is how has he been with that company uh seven years wow okay

um and it's been a lot it's been a lot of going back and forth they kept coming back and forth and saying you're going you're not you're going you're not and finally today they just said no you're going like everybody that refuses is just gone so what we're trying to figure out is somebody asked you about early retirement with social security and one of the things that he and i wondered is would it be better for him to take early retirement because we understand that investing that would be better but he's not ready to quit work and i was under the impression that if you took early social security that they ding you if you are working correct and okay so you don't get a lump sum that's why no it's not a lump sum it's monthly income okay if you start your social security at 62 you get a smaller monthly income than if you started at 65.

but then if he continues to work don't they doing that social security exactly they will yeah okay so probably if he's gonna go back to work don't take social security okay okay he would not be happy not not working he's still got years where he's going to want to be productive he's not going to want to just well i would hope so he's just a spring chicken we're

the same age so there you go yeah no and he loves what he does i mean you know most people go to work and they come home and leave their work at work he's he's an inventor and an engineer and that's what he loves and so he does it all the time so he's not really ready to just give that up and so we weren't sure if taking early retirement

i from the call it sounded like the guy was going to take a one lump sum was so secure it's not a lump sum they don't offer lump sum if they did i would have already taken it okay okay well that helps thank you early and often as i can get money from the government that is mine that i've given them and i'm not even going to get

it all back i would take all i could get as fast as i could get it because uh they've been screwing me for years and so i'd be happy to take some of it back and that sentence you just uttered is a total fantasy oh i know i didn't say it would happen i just said it'd be nice no i know i'm so saying we would all be doing that yeah oh boy

we'll turn into this grumpy old man molly's in st louis hey molly how are you good um thank you for taking my call sure what's up we well i just feel busy so we have a farm we have a rental property and my husband has a generator business and our money i feel like our money's in a good place um but the farm operation is a little tricky to wrap our brains around like how to get

it to where it's debt-free but also like the motivation behind it because like if you if you so we use an operating loan

while the crops are being put out and all that um so it gets paid back uh gets paid down to zero but

um if we so if we buy if we save to buy land you can't deduct that purchase so you have to pay tax on anything what's your question if how do we get rid of our operate i'm not really sure honestly how do we get rid of our operating loan uh like what's the motive behind that

when we would have to pay so much in tax to build up enough money to to have the cash to do that okay um you understand a tax deduction

is not a tax credit so the operating loan does not benefit you for taxes except for 25 percent of the interest that you pay there's almost zero tax benefit for an operating loan

did you know that um i thought our i thought what we paid on that was part of our farm expense no not for not not the principal only the interest okay only the interest okay and so let's let's put how big is the operating loan typically um our limit is 225 the max was ever done

is like 160. okay so let's just use some crazy numbers okay let's say you did 160 000 and it cost you uh eight percent of that and so it cost you

or ten percent of that it wouldn't be that much what's your interest rate four percent okay four percent all right and so it costs you what sixteen thousand it costs you about four thousand dollars in interest yeah no it cost you about six thousand seven thousand dollars in interest okay well seven thousand dollars in interest is all that's deductible nothing else is deductible correct okay now the seven thousand dollar tax deduction if you're in a thirty percent tax bracket saves you two thousand one hundred dollars in taxes

okay so you're screwing around with 160 thousand 000 for a 2 000 benefit and calling that sophisticated that's not sophisticated

no i think the issue is more we're not it's not really that to get the deduction it's it's like okay so then i misspoke okay um so if i in order for us to build up like

you have to pay taxes on 160 000 worth of income to have 160 000

yes that's how life works yeah yeah yeah but that's what you need to do to get out of the operating loan business because all you got to have is one bad crop in your bankruptcy

do you make in a year on the farm do you think um this last year after we did everything we'll have like a hundred thousand okay income and so so

let's pretend and let's say okay you need hundred and sixty so let's say over four years we're going to take 40 000 a year and we're going to borrow 40 000 less each year because the 100 000 in profit you pay taxes on you don't have a choice

okay so after you pay taxes on your hundred thousand dollars i want you to put forty thousand dollars aside each year for four years that will equal 160 000 now you are your own line of credit because you actually have some freaking money and i'm curious really quick molly i'd love dave to hear this i want to hear this how much is the rental property worth what do you owe on it uh we don't know anything on the rental property what's it worth probably worth

450. what kind of profit does the generator business make

so real quick generally we take home five thousand a month okay okay so 60 000 on that so you're making 160 000 a year you've got a 450 000 rental property if i were in your shoes i'd sell the rental property and fund my operating line that's what i'm thinking you're 100 debt free you're operating the business debt free you're going to increase your you're going to decrease your hassle

because you're dealing with a renter a generator business and a farm okay so you're going to decrease the craziness where you're chasing your tail when you started the call you talked about how confused you were and um and you're getting rid of the debt which lowers the stress of the situation and you're paying cash for everything on the farm from this day forward and you're paying cash for everything in

the generator business from this day forward and you never fall for the tax deduction myth again because when you fall for the tax deduction myth and you call that smart really what you're saying out loud is i love trading dollars for quarters because that's what a tax deduction does it trades a dollar for a quarter and you don't want trade dollars for quarters so don't stay in debt for

the tax deduction and don't stay in debt because you think you have to you don't have to

effectively you are borrowing against your rental property once a year for an operating loan that's what the balance sheet says it's technically not a loan on the rental property i got that but effectively that's what you're doing yeah so you can clean up your whole life pretty quickly if i were in your shoes and i wanted to be a farmer i'd sell the rental property if i didn't want if i want to be a rental landlord and not be a farmer i'd sell the farm this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today his new book is out and on the bookshelves and at ramseysolutions.com flying out the door it's called from paycheck to purpose

the clear path to doing work you love so

if you want to talk about career and jobs this hour well mr ken coleman is here to help and of course i'm here to help you with your life and your money we started pre-sale on my first book in eight years

wow yesterday i didn't how's that feel it's been a long time since you put a book out it feels old but um yeah i mean basically i've been putting your all's books out first i know so now now you're on the cover now i have 10 ramsey personalities and putting putting out books on tim ramsey personalities and supporting and pushing out those brands and helping those has been my job for eight or ten years

and so the last book i did was actually with rachel so she and i did number one bestseller called smart money smart kids um and she was of

my daughter rachel cruz is one of the ramsey personalities and so um this one's uh not got anybody's name on it but mine and it's all about the people that have followed the baby steps and have become millionaires and it's the proof text to prove to you that you can too not billionaires millionaires have a one million dollar net worth or greater and there's that that's you

you would want more than that probably that's not enough maybe i don't know but it's a million and it's million more than most people got it yeah so if you want to be a baby steps millionaire we can show you how and following the baby steps gets you there and this is a you know truly motivational book to show you exactly with the math exactly with statistics exactly what will happen with

the arithmetic if you follow this process you will get there and it also pretty much tears up anybody's who tears anybody's butt up who says you can't do it and so i spent a few chapters tearing up those butts little whack-a-mole in there a little whack-a-mo a little chapter little uh solve the objection to

make the sale thing so uh people that tell you you can't win i don't like those kind of people so it's my job to tear their butt up that's the thing so um it's what we do so baby steps millionaires on sale now it actually comes out january the 11th if you pre-order it you get all kinds of goodies including e-books and books and 100 worth of stuff so check it all out at ramseysolutions.com chad is in minneapolis hey chad how are you

better than i deserve how are you just the same sir what's up

so i've got a question um

my fiance and i have very different views on money we're going to get married next next summer congratulations yeah thank you uh grew up on a farm working saving you know striving for a better life it wasn't that i was destitute when i was growing up but you know it was it was not always the easiest thing her mom had her my my fiance's grandfather passed away and her mom had inherited millions of dollars never had to work and ended up raising nine kids on her own after her dad left

um and sort of abandoned the family

and then ended up using the money that she had inherited to manipulate the kids into doing things into thinking the way that she did doing things for her but ultimately has left sort of a bad taste in her mouth with money

how do i work with her to show her that money isn't intrinsically evil um i am i'm the breadwinner i i have a very good career

um you know i make about 120 she makes

38. how how do i work with her to show her that money's not bad how old are you guys uh 36 and 38. okay

okay um either one of you been married before both of us have actually so we're we're combining i've got four boys she has two girls okay well let me tell you some statistical things to think about and these are things you can go over with her okay um one of the things you want to do anytime you want to enter into anything

in business we would study if you want to enter into marketing we would study marketing and emulate best practices find best practices and find

where the landmines are we want to avoid the mind landmines keep from getting your leg blown off right and we want to emulate people who are winning we want to copy the things that the people that are winning are doing agreed

okay so here's what you guys are facing it's not insurmountable by the way but it is an uphill climb you have three major strikes against your marriage before it even starts

you don't address these i'll give you a high probability of failure okay number one her family upbringing was toxic she comes from a highly dysfunctional family number one hard to have relationships when you have come from a highly dysfunctional family unless you've dealt with it did i did i misstate that

no okay number two you both have failed at marriage before and if you have not healed through those failures and learned from those failures um you will replicate the exact same stupid crap again

high probability of failure if you do not deal with that that's right number three the number one cause of divorce in north america today money disagreements money fights and money problems and you're already having those you have to solve all three of those before the summer

and and to be honest with you so in in both both of our um both of both of us

chose to leave our marriages due to a lot of issues unfortunately i we we knew each other's exes so we we saw it there was a lot of people that saw it um yeah wonderful you

still both failed at marriage listen dude you got what i'm trying to tell you is you guys need a lot of one-on-one

counseling pre-marriage counseling to deal with these three issues before you walk down the aisle otherwise statistically you have a very high probability of hitting the wall yeah don't miss this i'm not trying to say you can't make it i'm just saying dude there's land mines everywhere and i'm trying to guide you through them and you need a coach a counselor that they can talk to the two of

you that is excellent that is world class this is not two little puppies getting married and they need some little pat on the hand pre-marriage counseling you need to deal with divorce healing you need to deal with her toxic upbringing because her mother's crazier than a freaking bean man what you described to me is dangerous stuff and then on top of that you're in total disagreement have different value systems about money

and you boiled it down to she thinks money's evil that's not the problem here that'll be one of 14 things that come up while y'all unpack this yeah chad i hope you're hearing this you need to pause this wedding date until this stuff gets fixed we didn't say not marry her we said pause well i don't even need to pause it you just gotta do the work between now

and summer well i i appreciate that dave it's very optimistic i i think it's pause until we get healthy and on the same page of this and i'd say this she's gonna have to see a desired future that you both agree on that money helps us get there that's eventually where you're gonna have to get her if you can't agree about money you're not gonna agree about life

and you guys really do have some work to do to get ready for this marriage i think you can do it but you're not gonna do it if you'd ignore it

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so

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have you guys heard that the real estate market is crazy what what are you talking about nuts buyers out there i think they got a buy there's a line around the block multiple bids every stinking house listing is an auction i mean out of freaking control and mortgage interest rates are lower i don't know how they can get any lower they're going to pay you to take a mortgage soon

i think hey don't get me wrong a low rate's a good idea it's not a green light to do stupid stupid as in buying before you're debt free or with a zero down payment or just lining up and paying like way too much for something because you're out of control hey get your head out of the craziness for a second look at you and your situation

are you debt-free you have a good strong down payment saved preferably 20 that'll avoid pmi

right can you really afford home ownership do you really want the responsibility you know somebody's got to cut the grass hello if and only if your answer is a big fat yes to all those questions then buying a home is a really smart move for you and it's easy to get caught up in all the crazinesses out there which is why you need the facts go use our free mortgage calculator to figure out what

you can actually afford with the mortgage options that are out there go to ramseysolutions.com click free tools to check it out free tools to check it out josh is with us in greenville south carolina hey josh what's up

hello sir gentlemen thank you for your time in advance uh my question is i

am selling my home back up in indiana it's set to close on the 30th and i have not heard this question yet uh

how do i keep myself from feeling like i've hit a jackpot and keep myself more along the lines of adulting i am going to admit that i've been like ramsay-ish along the way but i do have plans to get my uh debt paid off and say that's such a good question yeah that is very good how much is the house selling for dude

uh i i asked for 135 and i originally

bought the home nine years ago about 86 so i'm looking at roughly 50 something

thousand dollars in your pocket and you've never seen fifty thousand dollars in your pocket not in one lumps and no sir how old are you i am 32.

what does it do to your head and heart

you know the only way i've been able to work through it and i have to work through it regularly because uh sometimes my emotions still operate um you know making one jillionth of what i make now uh and so i mean we spend more on copier paper in ramsey than i used to make in a year you know so uh it's weird it's an emotional sure it's an emotional swing

so the way i do that is just you know john dr john delaney says facts are our friends yeah and so uh what i would tell you to do josh is just write down a lot of facts

facts are that emotionally 50 000 feels like a lot of money but actually the arithmetic on it is it's not much right you know and so like facts are i can buy this or this or this but then i'd have nothing facts are i i want to do this with it so that i can turn 50 000 into 500 000 over the next 10 years with the house by or whatever it is what are my facts

not my feelings feelings will lie to your butt

yes sir and so that that's what you're fighting against and that just means you're just like a a real person because we all fight against that but the feeling is like oh man like woohoo i've

hit the lottery but then the facts are

i could fritter this away real quickly and i really would end up with two ugly cars and that's it you know or something you know it would just be bad and then you'd be mad at yourself for like a decade for the having screwed this up and that's a fact those are facts and you know it won't hurt to sit down at the computer and just write some of those things down like write yourself a note that says you know hey let's be a grown up here you know i i have attendance i could be a lottery winner and act like i'm in high school and but adults devise a plan and follow it children do what feels good that's what i want to add josh while you're writing down what dave asked you to write down i want you to write down what your future looks like what are you dreaming about because dave here's what's going on you're absolutely right uh feelings are always present focused exactly exactly plans was future focus wisdom is an act of the will yeah i want to think about distance vision is an act of the will that's it and i think the desired future if you plan it out and then you say where does this new found money this 50 000.

how does it plug into that and what that does is that unplugs it from friday night 100 now we got discipline it unplugs it from a visit to target that's right or hey none of those things are none of these things are wise right because he could be tempted to buy a new car he's got the cash but wait a second where are you or you allocate 2 000 of it to blow to get it out of your system then it'll go i'm going i'm going to be wise with the other 48.

uh i just turned 20 and um

i'm gonna be honest all throughout high school i kind of was a knucklehead i mean i didn't say no i didn't by the way that comes with the deal daughter ken was a knucklehead all the way through high school man you know man i wasn't even a knucklehead i was just an idiot yeah welcome to the humanities

yeah i um got really bad grades and all that and uh now i'm kind of looking more towards the future now that life has kind of hit me yeah i'm still left at home i've got a paper route i make about 20 000 a year

um and i'm thinking about going into the military so they'll pay me to go to school as well as um i would like to serve my country it'd be an amazing thing and i'm thinking about going into the police force and it's pretty seamless to go from that um into a city police uh where i'm at

um i don't actually need a college education for it but um if it's paid for you know i thought that i might as well take it um but my main thing is my family isn't quite on board with me going into the army why just because they're they're very very scared um mainly because i'm not sure if i want to go active duty yet or not oh they're just worried about your safety 100 oh yeah that as well as um

i didn't tell you i am uh 17 000 in debt

i found you just a little too late um i got into a 400 car payment so dalton before i run out of time what's your question honey um i was just wondering uh

what i should do as far as the military as well as um working my way out of debt in the meantime got it ken well i i got to tell you i think i heard your heart here and i think if you want to serve our country i would not chase the military option just as an education fund it's not a bad move it's nothing moral about

it but i want you to decide why do you really want to serve our country uh and i think it's in that answer of being a police officer you want to protect and serve and so i say go be sensitive to your parents they're concerned about your safety but i think you've got to do what your heart's telling you to do and the good news is you can pay off that car loan uh you're 20

you didn't find dave and ramsey solutions too late you can pay that off in no time i mean you're making 20 from a paper route what if you went right now in this market where people are looking for anybody with a pulse and they'll pay them 15 an hour minimum wage how can you

go get another job pay that 17 000 off

really quickly and then step into the military serve your country and then find a way to step into a police force and protect and serve your community i think you got to do what you want to do you're heading in the right way young man um just move slowly and make sure you spend a lot of time uh beating up the recruiter for the best possible deal yeah on what

it is you're signing up for and that you get into an area of the military that's going to serve your long-term dreams and serve your educational dreams make sure you get all of that in the package you might even have your dad or mom involved with you in negotiating with the recruiter this is the ramsey show

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get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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oh now this is fun this is fun right here in the lobby of ramsay solutions on the debt free stage our good friends dr andrea and jim are with us all the way from bowling green ohio i got that right that's correct good friends of ramsey been friends a long time and you're here to do a debt-free scream we are yeah i love it

you know here's a weird fact for you this is the second bowling green ohio debt-free scream in a week really what are the chances of that stinky little town it's wonderful the lady was a big uh the kids were at the university they were falcons right yes yeah yeah cool all right andrea how much debt have y'all paid off we have paid off 158 000.

how long did this take 24 months you rock wow and your range of income during that time it was we started off at 130 and then we ended at 190. okay i know the answer but the listeners don't what do you guys do for a living i am a clinical child psychologist and i'm a capital project manager awesome very cool and what kind of debt was your 158

000 well 46 000 was my student loan debt for being going earning a phd over 10 years of higher ed um he didn't come into the relationship with any debt and then the other 112 was our house

we are looking at weird people i love it way to go you guys what's the house worth uh 300 000 we checked zillow just before we came up here i like that he was ready i had it appraised 10 minutes ago yeah i was a project manager well done you guys well done so a phd and a project

manager and a house worth 300 grand and

you guys are how old 38 wow

36. on your way to being baby steps millionaires if you're not already well done you guys i'm so proud of you thank you it's neat and i'm proud of you as your friend too so very very well done good stuff all right so what inspired you 24 months ago to get on this horse and make sure it's done well it's a little bit broken up so we did it in two phases so back in december of 2013 when i earned my phd

and we had that 46 000 we decided hey we're just gonna we're not gonna pay a penny to sally may we're just gonna get rid of it in that six-month grace period and so we just lived off of one salary and we paid off the 46 000 in that sixth month grace period before we had any interest so we got rid of that and then

we took a little bit of a break we bought some stuff we bought some stuff with cash with cash but you were on baby steps four through six at that point because you're working on your house absolutely no other debt left but the house at that point correct right and we had some twins via ivf which is a pretty penny if anyone's done ivf um it costs quite a bit of money so we had that and we also bought three cars in that amount of time with cash and not new um and then

probably in december of 2019

that's kind of when we got intense about it with paying off the house over the course of the years we had led financial peace university and we had walked alongside people and one of us would say like hey we're teaching financial peace university we're really supposed to be paying off the house early and then the other one would run the numbers and that person would be like it's not worth

it i'd be the one running the numbers saying it's not worth it and i would be like well maybe we should try and he'd be like uh no i wanna i wanna live a little bit and i was like okay and then we'd run some more people through financial peace and i'd be like we really should pay off the house and then in december 2019 he looked at me

and he was like he ran the numbers again and oh we should pay off the house oh no there it is jim what changed uh

well when i was doing it early you know you just buy a house you get a 15-year mortgage how much sacrifice am i gonna have to make to pay it off you know two years early you know it's a ton of sacrifice there when you're really early to uh to pay it off that much early and then we just after seven years or six seven years it's like oh okay

the number i can hit is much smaller now and i actually felt attainable i felt attainable yeah i could do oh in 18 months in in 12 months if we really buckle down we can actually do this and really having that ability to do it was like all right let's let's get after it and we paid it off so cool and then it was funny because then in december of 2020

when we sat down to set up our each of our individual goals i was like hey for a financial goal let's pay off our house by may and he ran the numbers again and he's like there's no way we can do that and i was like but let's set it as a goal and he's like there's no way and then

he's going to love this background we paid in may 21st of 2021

wow wow way to go you guys how's it feel

to not have a payment in the world absolutely wonderful yeah it's great it's if you run the numbers on that oh yeah give him a minute dave i i've done the numbers of you know also hit zillow right before you came up with you know how much per year all that what are we going to have in 20 years all that's done but uh it's just the

the ability to know that you know whatever i'm whatever i have is we own everything that we have and that any dollar that's coming in if i'm spending a dollar like i don't have to worry about that right it provides us freedoms like oh i can help someone out you know i you know we can make independent decisions of like oh we don't you know our ability to make financial decisions of just on

the spot is so much higher and being able to feel that when someone's needs something or we want to do something it's just it's done there's no worry about it because we know we have the money and i think the other thing with that is that not only financial decisions but we can also make career changes so after we paid off the house in may we actually both changed careers in june of

this year and so we both started new jobs because we had the financial security of we didn't have any more debt wow good for you that's very

cool yeah because you know it's um i can work where i want now it changes everything you know i don't have anybody breathe i don't have anything breathing down my neck that says i have to stay in this environment i can do it it's really interesting the psychology there because it gives you guys a little bit more confidence to make the move because it's a big deal to switch yeah to pivot there's a whole lot of unknowns

there absolutely give you that extra confidence it's really interesting i gotta know all right so you're going maybe may he's like i don't think so maybe you just wore him down what was the intensity i'm just curious what was the most intense thing you guys did to meet that stretch goal because it feels like it was a stretch it wasn't even really a stretch because what we did was

i had opened a private practice in 2020 2020 and we just didn't touch

that money we just kind of set it aside so then at the end of 2020 we just took all the money out of the private practice and just threw it at the debt and then oh i see so jim was spending that money and that's why i didn't think it was possible yeah it was in his spreadsheet it was in the spreadsheet yeah and it's really you know

when you get that really you took a second job really of his second career you just put that all towards it although it didn't feel like that because it was where we wanted to go career-wise anyway and just kept you know two jobs at the the same time and then made the transition fully for her to private practice after we paid it off i love it i'm

so proud of you guys thank you well done well done all right when you're teaching financial peace what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is the key is budget i cannot tell you the number of times just sit down and have a budget meeting with your spouse and sit down and run the numbers and give every single dollar a name and just

the just the amount of people realizing when

they actually sit down and do a budget and be like i should have a thousand dollars more this month where is it going and i'm like i don't know you tell me you're the one spending it and then it's just life-changing and marriage changing it changes your marriage when you no longer have to fight about money yeah very cool all right jim have you run the numbers when you're going to be a millionaire uh yes it's soon if not happened so

he's

he's already there he's already there

way to go baby steps millionaires i love it this is why i come down here and work still just for this there it is there it is i'm so proud of you guys well well done very well done excellent excellent stuff all right who are your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you um probably your parents yeah probably my parents and you know my family's been you know my mom got me

the uh totally money makeover when i was in college my dad would watch you i believe fox business on like saturday morning financial peace baby yeah yeah i mean

yeah so they just gave me that

my grandparents you know it was always you know not having debt and just you know being able to pay for things and blessed me with not having any you know debt going coming out of college um and so that's just kind of my family's just you know grown up in that and and so they were really just just living living how we live you know dr andrea and jim 158 000 paid off 24 months house and

everything not even 40 years old we suspect they're baby i love it making 130-190 a year count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free

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this is how it's done boys and girls

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our scripture today psalms 86 11 teach

me your way lord that i may rely on your faithfulness give me an undivided heart that i may fear your name dr martin luther king said you don't have to see the whole staircase just take the first step boy there's so much in that so much in that just take the first step bj's with us in baltimore hi bj welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call

we just love you guys um we were doing the dave ramsey and we paid off all of our debt except for our house way to go um when we had a second mortgage so we just have the regular mortgage now so um the question is i have a lot of

health issues and as i've um i've had to go to a natural doctor because the regular doctors weren't working and my husband has a year and a half before he retires and my aunt has offered to sell us her trailer but we would have to relocate

and the question is should we take early retirement and then take the the difference because she's practically giving it to us um should we should he take early retirement and then pick up another job

because he would need something to do because we could actually live on his

early retirement or should he continue working where he's at and then possibly

just rent a place and but all the rentals are more than what are what we would pay what do you owe on your home we owe a 125. and what does he make

he makes uh 80.

do you not like your home i have health issues i can't go up and down steps the bathroom is up on the second floor and in the basement so you need to sell the house for your health reasons yes to get you into a one-level property

we could live in the basement which has a bathroom but it's who really wants to live in a basement yeah amen okay and so your houses would sell for how much it would sell for uh 200 to

uh either 180 to 200 000.

and you owe 125.

yes okay why don't you sell it and buy a one bedroom or i'm sorry a one level house around a 150.

well in this area if you can sell yours for 200 you can buy something for 150 that's not that dissimilar to what you're living in

if yours sells for 200 150 175 will buy

a very nice one level on your freaking street

okay you know this is a large house that's got an apartment in the basement it's all been redone okay so sell it for 200 and buy yourself a nice one level house for 150 to 175.

okay so it wouldn't be a problem to have another mortgage because he retires in a year and a half nope because he's going to keep working after he retires and he makes enough to live on when he retires i'm not moving you into a trailer that's going down in value there's not a good enough deal in the world to move into a trailer there's not a good enough deal in the world to live into a trailer that's going down in value and this be your signature golden years no thank you

all right so i think i think you're sick of these stairs and you know you're just grasping at straws trying to get out of there but here's the principle bj that you need to hear okay okay if you're gonna sell a house in a market and buy a house in the same

market you're going to sell in the like things are crazy over there right yeah so you're going to sell in crazy and you're going to buy in crazy so this is a net net it's not a net loss it's

not i i sold low and bought high i sold

high and bought high it's a net net so it doesn't prohibit you from making the move and you you know now if you move from a crazy low market to a crazy high market you know you might have an argument then but if you moved on your same street

you you can move down in house down in price and get into one level three bedroom house and that's smaller than the one you're living in and do it in the 150 to 175 range uh if your current home really is worth 200. now dave you were so certain about the trailer what if it has a redwood deck does it change your opinion

what if it has an outdoor above ground

pool you were still you were so certain dave i was like wait a second i feel like you oversimplified that oh i'm just talking about things i'm talking about things that go down in value that's absolutely right i couldn't resist i'm not above any of that in terms of being a snob that's not the point the point is the stinking things go down in value yeah and they're basically a car you sleep in alex is with us in new york city alex

how are you redwood you didn't see that one coming i didn't see that okay what's up alex hey dudes ken how are you we're doing great man what's up so i kind of have like a part i guess student loan and retirement questions so

i was as they say i was dumb and i went to out of state school and um i let my folks

handle a lot of the student loan stuff and borrowed more than i needed so um so yeah long story short i paid off the loans in my name to the point where my employer will pick up um the payments the minimum payments and then the big one is the pan plus loans that i'm also paying on um uh that right now i got it down to 150

150 000. wow um

so your parents took out parent plus loans but you've agreed morally to pay them yes you're not legally obligated but you you that's the deal between you and your mom and dad yes okay and your student loans are all gone uh all except for eight thousand but my employer they're paying um a certain amount per month on it what's your degree in accounting what do you make uh right now make 80. how old are you

24. master's degree in accounting

no uh i decided to go to community college for the 1503 so i was smart with that i decided not to uh build a master's degree you went to a community college for 150 000 in student loans debt on a parent plus loan no no no no no so i went to uh uh an out of

state college four year um so most of what is it 180 ended up being for the my

four years and then i just cash flowed 2000 for community

college because for accounting you need 30 extra credits so i just did a community college instead of masters oh i see what you're doing okay yeah you're talking about credit you're talking about getting your cpa okay all right okay okay okay okay so you're 24 and you're making 80 grand all right yeah well you got 150 to go

my question was like i wasn't sure like if since it's not in my name oh yeah it's in your name you shook your daddy's hand all right yeah yeah this is your you took on this debt your you claimed this debt i heard you a minute ago yeah i don't care if the law doesn't say you owe it but the law of the of your household says

you owed it because you're a man and you gave your word yes that's yeah so you're gonna pay it yeah going to treat it like your debt because it is your debt the technicality of the legal technicality don't get you out of it you're going to pay it anyway so you're going to pay it like it's your debt because it is your debt now you took it on

so yeah 50 000 bucks a year for three

years you're done and that means you're on beans and rice rice and beans or forty thousand dollars a year for four years and you're done by the way your income is going to increase dramatically from 80 as you move on from 24 years old up to an accounting degree and so all of those increases do not go to partying or having fun in new york they go to paying off daddy's loan that you promised him you would pay

yeah did i read your mail all right

he was just running his weekend schedule through his head right there just cancelled that vacation that all-inclusive in jamaica that's what just happened yellow yeah you got to clean this mess up dude [Laughter] and the fast deeper you sacrifice the faster you'll get out that's the formula and the faster you get out the better life you're going to have live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else great job ken coleman thanks for having me great job james jim jim

jimmy's in there we'll be back before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

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## 206. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 19, 2021)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:26:03 |

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[Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm george campbell ramsay personality host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast and i'm joined today by the wonderful rachel cruz best-selling author host of the rachel cruz show all around great person rachel how are

you doing great george this is our second time hosting together we were such a fan favorite we're back the votes are in the votes i wish that was a true story it was just a luck of the draw this time but i i do enjoy hosting with you uh two of our money personalities together we're like the avengers avenging debt i guess and the student loan crisis take over

the world in the student loan crisis i love it i'm here for it we should it's a free call this hour open phones triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number to call hopefully kelly gets you through and we can have a conversation about whatever's on your mind whatever's uh whatever you're worried about something maybe you're excited about maybe there's a decision you're trying to make

and you just need some affirmation from some friends we are those friends today that's right that's what i love about this it's it's everything around your life right i mean obviously through the money lens for a lot of people but money touches every part of our lives so it adds in the relationships it adds in the stress and the anxiety it adds in everything so it is life

i mean in and out day and day i love it well let's get to it here's what we're here for sean is on the line in los angeles sean welcome to the ramsay show hi uh thanks for having me absolutely it's all good uh we just bought a my wife just got married did for um our uh honeymoon and all that stuff everything is good you just bought in her car cash um thank

you very much um so we just bought her car cash um and then we ended up out of vehicle so we have about like maybe like 11 000 saved after everything um and then uh i'm gonna get six thousand back from from the other one so i'm wondering uh do we go like you know do i kind of try to spend it all on something and try to get something a little more reliable or do

i nickel and dime at like five thousand and then throw the rest of it um the only deal we have is a student loan so of um trying to tackle that too so i'm not really sure what we should do yeah well i mean i don't like the word only debt yeah it's the only debt i have how much is this debt the student loan well it's pretty steep it's like 50 57 000

but we're good good earners and you know we haven't we had to map out just something unfortunate happened you know you know what i mean yeah how urgent is this car purchase um it has to be done yeah i mean uh i mean yeah i mean we both commute for work so we got to do it and you have one car right now one car yeah okay

so you need another car for the job and you have eleven thousand dollars saved in cash is that all of your savings everything liquid cash you have right now yeah it was all we had kind of um i planned on just throwing that straight at the debt and then and then this came up so now but we do have i'll get six thousand back from from everything else what's everything else uh my insurance it'll be though

you know big crashes okay so they'll write you a check for six grand you're saying yeah okay all right that helps we got all the details down rachel yeah i mean sean if i was in your boat because of the student loan obviously you guys need a car i mean that is we talk about your four walls transportation is one of those so i'm not against obviously

you getting a car uh but no i would not spend all of this on the car because you

can still get a reliable used car i mean you can i mean it's amazing honestly four five six thousand dollars what that will get you no it's not gonna be a beautiful car it's gonna be an older one but you go get you know a honda civic or a toyota camry like there are there are cars out there that their reputation is to be reliable and again

it may not be the thing you want to drive for the rest of your life which is fine but going ahead and getting a car um as inexpensive as possible so again

i'm talking four five six thousand dollars and then keeping a thousand for your emergency fund and then throwing the rest at this debt so i really would concentrate on that and the great thing about four five six thousand dollar cars is they really don't go down in value very quickly so yeah by the time you guys are out of debt you know in in three more years you guys can upgrade to an awesome car and that time is gonna fly so quick so um i would put as much money towards the student loan shawn as possible and sorry i'll add this to sean you know you and your wife yo hello you guys have been married what just i mean really recent you said oh yeah october yeah they're just coming october okay so honestly this is kind of a fun fun may not be the right word george i love the word fun so everything feels fun to me this could be a really unifying goal for you and your new wife to to experience something together as a newlywed couple and any couples but especially when you're newlyweds to have something that you guys are sacrificing and working towards together um there's something really unifying about that that you get to experience early on in marriage so i would almost look at it like that but hey you know it sucks that we have all this student loan debt but man if we attack this together there is this um this this bridge between you two that gets built in such a quicker way when you have a unified goal yeah and sean i'll tell you i drive a 2009 honda civic with body damage so it's exactly what rachel's saying and i paid six thousand dollars for it back in 2017.

still drives perfectly today and yeah we have the money to get a new car but i'm like that's fine and i kind of like that it has some body damage you get a little ding on it you don't care so let this be a memory that you guys look back on and let it fuel you to go gosh i hate this car i wish we had a nicer car

let's pay off this debt asap so that we can get that nicer car but what happens is people get a nicer car and they get comfortable with their student loans sitting here like a pet and they never pay them off and so i want you to get intense what was that we're hardcore on it we decided we had already planned on it it's already i had map out like

the next six months to take care of it we just uh it's just something came up and i'm like i don't know if we should you know totally no i hear you're gonna pay off the student loan in six months yeah that's awesome oh that's well hopefully that's the idea what's your what's your household income um together we do like 165 so oh yeah

this thing is definitely gone in six months or less and guess what you can then sell that car for probably about what you paid if the market is what it is and you can upgrade uh before the year is over before 2022 ends

awesome uh thank you very much absolutely thanks so much for the call cars are so interesting because there's like this level of like a standard of living a level of luxury this thing that cars have become it represents something like you know dave's opener of the show is this you know the bmw is now the status symbol of choice and it is i'm like and what i don't

i just laugh at myself sometimes because i can be that i want a tesla that's my i'm not a car person but whenever i see a tesla i'm like man i want a tesla's so bad and but like a car gets you from point a to point b yeah see what i'm saying like like if you go to like you zoom out utility if you just look at

the utility of it and then like you said too the nicer the car a little bit more the more stressed you are the more you're thinking oh gosh i got to keep it clean if something happens right it becomes this this uh it fills your emotional tank where it's like oh it doesn't need to right because it's just stuff so there's cars are just f they're fascinating

and there's a big spectrum especially with guys i mean guys calling into the show yeah it's always they want the nice car and they want to impress the buddies and they got to have this the premium features yeah so i would be curious we could like take a poll like instagram on the radio but we can't but i'm like okay for like the the longing for a new car especially for a guy is

it do you think george more of the perception of what it brings or is it that you just like nice things and you like to get in to a car and it smells good it's all new technology like it's fun i wonder what percentage it is for most people out there i think that's a bit of both but i think if you're an i am legend scenario

and you're the only person in the world left i don't think you're that worried about what other people think about your truck so true i think part of it is you want to go with your buddies and go hey dude check out check out these rooms i just got if i just got george if i ever get a tesla i'm going to i'm going to say george i'm taking off look at my tesla

i will be one of those people that tells you i love it well hey folks it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five i'm george campbell that's rachel cruz we'll be back with you real soon [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

[Applause] [Music]

this is the ramsay show i'm george campbell host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by rachel cruz host of the rachel cruz show all of those you can find on the ramsey network well i've got a question for you is it too soon to start talking about christmas i know thanksgiving's still a couple weeks away but here's the deal me and the rest of

the ramsey team are already in a christmas frame of mind and it's not just the hallmark movies rachel a big reason for that is that we're already giving away cash as part of our christmas cash giveaway we love being generous around here especially with dave's money one of my it's my spiritual gift of mine to give away dave's money so here we are every year we celebrate christmas with our ramsay show listeners with our ramsay christmas cash giveaway it's become a tradition of ours

and this year we're giving away 500 bucks every single week and a grand prize of 5 thousand dollars you can enter every day to increase your chances of winning just go to ramseysolutions.com giveaway to enter and you can go ahead and get in on the giving too we've got all kinds of life-changing gifts for your family and friends and our famous 10 sale that means you can shop over 40 of our best-selling books

and envelopes for just 10 bucks or less get books like the total money makeover dave's number one bestseller and rachel's newest book know yourself and all your money both on sale for just 10 bucks that's a good deal this year forget the one-time use presents and gift a lifetime of hope shop the 10 sale at ramsaysolutions.com

mike joins us in new york city mike welcome to the ramsay show hey guys thanks for taking my call much appreciated um i have a two-part question the first part deals with my pension i am forced by my employer to

put in six percent of my total earnings towards the pension and i was curious as to how you guys and dave think about that six percent as it contributes to the entire 15 percent that you recommend for retirement savings and the second part of my question deals with my current uh tda my tax renewal it's a 403 b and currently i'm putting in uh nine percent uh of my gross and it's a fixed

guaranteed return of seven percent that's what i'm guaranteed i guess it was negotiated through the state legislator that i'm guaranteed to do seven percent i was told that this is very rare and it's a great deal but i've also been told by you guys that opening up a roth ira is a really good choice so i'm debating about moving my

finances from my 403 b into a roth ira maxing that out six grand five grand or six grand a year i forgot what the max contribution is and then whatever i have left over putting that leftover towards the 403b annuity uh with a guaranteed fixed seven percent i just want to know what you guys think about that second question as well okay cool so let's start with the first question the mandatory six percent contribution is that coming from your own salary this is not something that the employer is contributing on their part yeah it's from my own salary comes right on my paycheck i have no choice in the matter so they're just forcing your first six percent out of the 15 essentially exactly because i'm part of the uh you know new york city and part of the state the pension contribution is is mandatory okay yeah i mean i don't see anything wrong with counting that as part of your 15 since it's coming out of your paycheck yes yeah so yep that'll be that will be included in the 15.

is left of that it's looking like you said i got the 403b what percentage are you putting in the b so i'm putting in nine percent so if i do the six percent for the pen and then another nine yeah i mean right yes well my knee-jerk reaction alway i just love the roth ira i mean it is it is tried and true and it grows tax-free and usually you can get more i mean another

they're guaranteeing seven percent but with the roth my husband i even just looked at our stuff the rate of return yeah it's just you can get more even just in the market and so that's where i tend to lean um mike to go ahead like you said that your knee jerk reaction i i would i would do that i would do as much as i can in that roth ira but then whatever is left after you do that that's six thousand five six thousand dollars when you max out that roth if there is anything left i think you i think you just walked us through it i'm like that's exactly right you i would put the rest in that 403 b yeah i guess i'm calling just to confirm i'm doing the steps correctly and i think i am i guess my only concern was what is some you know if you look at the s p 500 over the last 30 years i think it's what an average rate of return of around eight eight and a half which is obviously higher than seven percent the only great thing about the 10 is that it's guaranteed it's set by the state legislator i have literally zero risk of loss all at all so that's why it's like oh that's pretty unique and unheard of so that's why i was questioning what percentage should i only put one or two percent towards that uh fixed rate of return then dump the rest into the roth ira and you guys are saying yes it is in fact worth it yeah i think it is because i think you're gonna get i think you're gonna average out more than seven percent over this how old are you mike i'm 37.

don't know another piece of this rachel is the control factor in the roth ira you're going to have control of what funds are invested i don't know mike how much control you have over the options in this 403 b piece if they're guaranteeing that seven percent i don't know how they're guaranteeing that or if they have full control what's the situation there these so great questions from what

i understand the the fixed guarantee return 10 that was negotiated through my union and collective bargaining through the state legislature so seven percent is locked in place now that is an option for me in addition to that i also have options of playing around with the market doing uh equity diversity funds i can i can uh sort of you know spread my uh contributions however i want

but currently i'm putting it all in the bucket of fixed return um does that make sense got it yeah yeah yeah and what i would do too is you can bounce this off of one of our smartvestor pros in your area financial advisor who can just go hey this is what's going to make the most sense for your age for where what your situation is and your goals

they can walk through all the nitty-gritty the nerdy numbers with you to help you make that decision but if i'm you i'm going to the roth ira whatever's left over it's not a bad plan to uh to throw some money in that as well especially with the guaranteed um rate of return there so thanks for the question appreciate that matt joins us next in houston texas matt welcome to

the ramsay show thank you for having me guys how are y'all doing today doing great how can we help awesome so my wife and i are new uh

to the baby steps we're currently on baby step two um trying to pay off some of our debts and um before we got on board with the

whole program i had invested during the pandemic when the market crashed i invested into some stocks which i'm learning now that it's not the best option to have so what we're trying to figure out is if

it would make sense to go ahead and pull out our current investments um obviously take out what what would be tax for capital gains and put that aside for the end of the year but then utilize the the other funds to pay off some of our debt i'm just wondering if that's a good idea or what you guys would suggest we do with that yeah i like

this plan so far how much debt do you have so we currently have about five thousand dollars in debt fifty of that being student loans uh the other two are car loans okay and what uh what's how much is in this investment uh total and the investment is around twenty one thousand okay so we're not going to knock out the debt completely even by cashing these hours

but it'll help kick-start this process for you

right right yeah yeah that's the thought process at least to at least get that going i mean we also have around 11 000 in savings and that's kind

of like that's our limit right now as my wife just gets a little weary when the bank drops a little bit um especially with my

with my job i'm prone to injuries because i teach tennis and so like right now i'm doing some injury pains and a hernia and so that extra money she she doesn't want to go below that just in case something happens but um again you know any guidance on on that situation would be would be helpful for us as well yeah well your first um question matt i

would anything that is not retirement i would cash out and throw at the debt because you're going to be able to go and invest

double twice three times as more when you have no payments like when you guys are completely debt-free and you have an emergency fund suddenly you're gonna feel your income be able to be like oh my gosh this is amazing and then you can you guys have time to go and invest more into things like retirement and that security gland is flaring up over here but if i'm

you guys i'm going down to that 1 000 that's gonna give you 31 total throw at the debt and the sooner you get rid of this debt that's when you have true security true financial peace so i think you guys have the hard conversation about using this money in savings to kick start this debt and really start to paint the picture of what you want that future to look like rooting for

you guys this is the ramsay show [Music]

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[Music]

i'm george campbell next to me is rachel cruz and this is the ramsay show it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five let's have a conversation about your life and your money what's on your mind let us know let's have a little fun friday conversation about it agnes decided to join us in new york city agnes welcome to the ramsay show hi

thanks so much for taking my call absolutely my question is my question is that my husband and i are finishing baby step three so we're getting ready for investing and we're starting to think about it yay but we don't know anything about investing at least not much and i was wondering if um if a smart investor probe would be helpful in um

you know when we start to invest in a company 401k or that's something that you know you know being that it's not there we're not investing with the smart investor pro would they still help with that yeah absolutely yeah i in fact have a smart vester pro and i show them what's going on in my company ramsey 401k and every year i'll just go hey does this still make sense to

you all the you know allocated across these funds and it's it takes the pressure off of me to go oh okay good i'm doing the right thing i shouldn't be doing anything differently so absolutely they have a heart of a teacher and they'll educate you from start to finish that's why they're there they're not there to sell you on products they're there to help you understand where you're putting your money yeah

and hopefully you know for you guys um you you'll have more to invest than just the 401k because you'll take that match but then maybe you'll open up a roth ira like we talked about in the last segment there there are other retirement options out there that they can even help show you and and i'll say this you know i remember when i had my husband and

i we got married uh we 12 years ago which is so crazy and after we got married we sat down with the smartmaster pro that was here in nashville and and even

being dave ramsey's daughter let me just say i had so many questions i didn't quite even understand some of it and i kind of felt stupid at first asking some of the questions i was like these are probably dumb questions that are like super elementary and i should know this but the more i asked and the more he started explaining i was like okay there's just that there's a level of knowledge you're gonna want

when you're putting your money into something so don't be afraid to ask questions honestly you may you may you may feel stupid or like i should know this i'm an adult you know i pay taxes like i feel like i should know these things uh and you me and you don't i mean or you may not like i in things like insurance i laughed about taxes but seriously taxes investing it's

these niche parts of our financial picture that people that work in these industries hopefully the ones that you know or the ones that we recommend are kind people they're going to help you and they're there to teach you like george said and these people eat and breathe this stuff they do it day in and day out they meet with all types of people all income level i mean

they see it all so i don't want you to feel inadequate at all when you guys go sit down for the first time ask as many questions i want you to be a be able to understand what you're putting your money into so when you leave that office that you could explain it to someone else right like that you know it so well um so absolutely i would have a financial advisor in my corner

and do my first degree first i understand and do we first go to the the other financial advisor or do we first try to open it up with the company the 401k well it'll probably be through it'll be through your company but they're going to be able to to guide you in it like what george is saying and then other things that you may decide to put your money in they're going to be able to help

you in that so you can open up the 401k and then they can help you select what funds inside of that 401k you're putting your money into and so that's what's going to help obviously we have a lot of resources at ramseysolutions.com to help teach you how what the ramsey way is across four different types of growth stock mutual funds and we've got a new book coming out from dave baby steps millionaires where

he really unpacks his own investing strategy and i love that dave does exactly what he tells other people to do he's not out here jumping on single stocks and telling everyone else to go into mutual funds so we really try to practice what we preach around here and those smartvestor pros they're aligned with the ramsey principles and they're going to treat you right so absolutely reach out

and just get some information and get some guidance from them even if it's for your company 401k and maybe down the line like rachel said you work with them on another project like we did that when we were saving up for our down payment oh yeah we invested for the long term and we worked with our smart mr pro absolutely agnes way to go baby step four here

we come feels good yeah that's awesome thanks for the call josh joins us next in seattle washington josh welcome to the ramsay show

hi thanks for taking my call george and rachel yeah i'm a small business owner out here and we've built this business over 10 years and done fine but the last couple years we've just gone gangbusters made more money than we've ever made and uh we've through that my wife and i have accumulated a good stockpile of cash just in regular savings accounts and we're looking to build a house in

the next couple of years so for now i've just left that in savings accounts it's been piling up and we're getting a half a percent of interest which is the very highest rate we can find around my question is should i be doing something else that money just feels wrong especially with all the talk of inflation the reality of inflation i'm not worried about hyperinflation but there's a reality right now especially in

the building cost world or should we just sit on that uh you know depending on when we're going to build the house probably starting as soon as next spring and just sit on it and wait um what you think we should do yeah it's a great question i'm just curious josh what do you guys do for a living just what's what's going crazy what kind of business sure yeah we're in

the gun and ammo business awesome there you go that has gone crazy very cool um yeah so i i'll say if you guys know you're gonna be building in the next three years or less four years or less i would just keep it where it is josh which i know hurts my husband and i we did the same thing we had saved and it we we had saved um for longer than even that

and kept it just in like a money market and we look back and winston was like i guess that was the right decision you know we still talk about it because it was over a longer period of time um but especially if you go if especially if it's three years or less our rule of thumb at ramsay's really five years or less um

and so in this case anywhere from three to five years if you know you're gonna be building in that time i would just keep it where it is even though i get it like you're not making a ton back i know but um it's kind of the safest route it's just the money that you have because if something dips if something happens and you guys want to go

and build and you don't have the time to let it regain where it was then that kind of sucks yeah when you have that tight time horizon of we want to build at this date that's where i start to get real nervous about putting it in the market for a short period of time josh how much money is this

uh in our personal savings accounts about 500 550 000 and then we're a little heavy on the business right now another 250 thousand retained earnings in the business which is a lot more than we normally keep there so are you guys are you guys investing though john like or josh for um like retirement and all of that like are you are you doing other stuff are you just really focusing on yeah we've been doing 15 of our of our take-home pay at raises

a good point i guess we haven't we just continued to do that off our base salary that we pay ourselves i've not done that out of this excess so perhaps that is a portion of it that we should take and then set aside for long-term investing this excess we've just piled up you know in in cash and along the way paid another 400 000 for a piece of land that we'll build on

so that's you know debt free and yeah ready to build but yeah that's all i was gonna say is that you can should we use that no i would use what you have to to do is put as much away to the house as possible when you guys start building for sure should we take 15 of that and invest it is that considered part of our 15 part of our income on which

we should be doing investing no i wouldn't if you guys already are investing on just the income you said you're doing it on the take-home pay though right the investing well we're doing it on our on our base salary so we've paid ourselves for years uh we take 15 of that you know out of our regular you know 130 000 bucks a year or whatever and and invest on that out of all

this excess we've done zero investing no i think that's fine uh because again you're you're saving this money for the house to build so that's what this is a lot of different goal here how much uh house are we talking ideally for you guys uh pro probably the bill probably cost somewhere within eight nine hundred thousand okay i mean i you guys are so close to being able to pay cash for something like

this you just kept saving up with this business crushing it like it is and you waited two years i mean that could be a really cool stretch goal for you guys yeah you know and i think if we sell our current house that we're in it'll definitely be able to cash flow and that's another question in the back of our mind is do we keep that as a rental or do

we sell the current place and and you know just cash flow the whole build so yeah if you're able to cash for the whole build i would keep it it's pretty bad for a rental yeah i would if you got a paid for property and yeah i mean that's that's pretty cool man you guys have done right now congrats josh i love hearing stories like that right awesome warms my heart

i see people go yeah we got like 800 000 in cash and we're crushing it i mean this is this is what we like to hear so thank you so much for the call of josh way to go this is the ramsay show

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you're listening to the ramsay show i'm george campbell joined by rachel cruz today and it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five call us up we'll talk about your life and your money michael joins us in phoenix michael welcome to the ramsay show

yes hi george rachel thank you for taking my call i hope you guys are better than you deserve we are for sure how are you doing well pretty good pretty good um so a couple questions well one major uh

a little bit of background just became homeless back in september um gives you some unforeseen circumstances sorry um but i'm a single dad two kids um trying

to uh uh build back better if you will and i have a great job but don't know where to don't know where to start really i got my emergency fund in place got into a cheaper car got into a cheaper apartment and just really trying to take control of my finances so my finances aren't taking control of me anymore yeah well it sounds like you're you're doing a lot better than

you were not long ago so you're in an apartment now you've got somewhere safe to stay and the kids are safe yep absolutely and you've got the job what's your income uh don't know the uh annual but at 26 an hour i'm a drunk driver truck driving 26 an hour that's great and uh are is child care a part of the equation here they're negative okay good good

and you have debt uh i don't know how you would label consumer debt but creditor debt

okay how much debt is owed currently

uh student loans car

a couple of hospital bills right around 30. 30 000.

okay and you've got an emergency fund in place how much is in there uh about 1200 1200 bucks so you're right you've got that baby step one going that starter emergency fund and you have a reliable car and you've got a place to stay and you can afford the the rent there correct okay well you're honestly i'm i'm impressed it sounds like you've been through a whole lot in the past i don't know a few months how recent is all of this

uh september wow man you are resilient yeah michael you've done you've done an amazing job do you know that right well it's my kids i learn from my kids i

work for my kids i love my kids yeah

well it's a good why in there because what you've been through is i mean it's hard it's really hard and especially if you're the sole provider of that i know the weight that that feels and that responsibility that you feel and i feel like the thing that

sucks about money is that you know your past decisions they do follow you you know you're having to face these things that you're like man i hate it but um but you you have not let it completely just overtake you or define you i mean you really have i hear it in your voice of i'm gonna i'm gonna do something different because what i did didn't work

and so i'm willing to change and do the hard work to dig myself out of this and i just think that's like it's just really impressive and really brave to make big changes like this in your life michael so i just i want to encourage you in that um and that this that this debt it is um

is it all in collections because you were talking about creditors incorrect yeah it's all online questions okay well one positive note in some of that maybe not as much the student loans but the other stuff there are chances that you can negotiate with them when it gets to this point um and and once you get some money um

let's just use like one of them for an example what how much would you say is on the car for instance uh 16 16 000 okay so you know working to

to get some cash and sometimes they will settle with you um and to say hey it's been x amount of time and here's what i have what's the best thing you can do um for me what's the best deal you know you can give me i mean there's always that strategy as well that um is a possibility not that it's all in collections but um if that doesn't work

then obviously kind of just chipping away at this and it'll be it'll be a marathon you know it's not gonna happen happen overnight like we say around here but uh getting those quick wins of paying off that smallest one is going to be um it's going to be exciting what is your smallest step michael uh about a thousand okay okay awesome

well you got 1200 in the bank so you know you can do it you know you can work and save that um so that'll feel that'll feel real good when you when you hit that first one out yeah so if you're following the baby steps we talk about the four walls and it sounds like you've got those covered that's food utilities shelter transportation once we have that covered you can move on to that starter emergency fund which you have and then next up we're going to list those debts from smallest to largest depending on what's going on with the creditors and like rachel said the older the debt has been in collections the better chance you have of settling and so if i'm you right now i'm gonna work my tail off maybe that means taking a second job doing anything to increase income and cut down expenses to create that margin so that we can save up you know eight thousand dollars and go to that car loan and say hey i've got eight are you willing to take that today and be done with this and a lot of the times they'll say we'd rather have some of the money than none of it yeah and they'll take that and that can be knocked out in the medical bills especially a lot of those can be negotiated down especially with hardship and income so do your research and be proactive communicating with the creditors uh you know call them once a week give them updates i want you to bother them more than they bother you uh they're gonna want you off their back instead and so you've done an incredible job um obviously i want this debt out of your life as soon as possible so that you can really start to create that new financial future for you and your kids how old are the kids 14 and 12.

and are they are they in school what's their situation yeah school full-time okay awesome that's good that frees you up to be able to to work are you back home every night with this trucking gig oh yeah yeah i'm local okay that's great

news well you know the good news is the trucking industry is in high demand and so you might even look into what other jobs are out there can i increase this income ca is there overtime i know that can be difficult in the trucking industry with um regulation but just doing whatever you can for the next you know maybe it's two years to knock out this debt especially

if you can settle some of it it could be shorter than that and once you're through with that you get that fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then you can rest easy at night and start investing for your future how old are you 36 36 dude you got your whole life ahead of you you've got a whole new life to start a new legacy to build with

these kids and uh i mean you know what to do and i i think you're going to do it you're a resilient guy nothing's going to stop you at this point from where you were to where you are today and where you're going to be that's right and my kids have a full life ahead of them and i want theirs to be better than me and it will michael

i mean honestly financially yep i mean you're you're literally making doing the steps right now to what we say around here all the time is changing your family tree and that's exactly exactly what you've been doing do you feel more hopeful today than than even three weeks ago like as you start really making progress and you save and and you're feeling kind of the traction of this working how how does

i was able to pay off a creditor last week and it felt amazing amazing it's

discouraging when i can't do it every week but it you know it gives me hope yeah and that's awesome well you keep taking one day at a time keep busting your butt for this family clearly that's your why so let that y fuel you along this journey and start to dream of what that future looks like and what it looks like to maybe being a home one day or be doing

the job you really want to do and the kids going to college and just start to dream about that future and that's going to keep you going every day that's what you need right now is that daily motivation listen to this show for motivation get a community around you if you don't have any right now some friends who can cheer you on along the way some family that's really going to help

you get through this journey no thank you absolutely michael thank you so much for the call we are cheering you on my friend yes what a good dad i know i'm just impressed by this guy and it sounds hard like the road he just explained i'm like oh that i mean it's hard yeah and yet

choosing to say okay i'm i'm gonna do this i'm gonna i'm gonna figure this out get another job find an apartment i mean all of it that's that's so courageous to me because there's a lot of you know and i get it but there's some it's just like i don't even know what to do they're stuck and they can't move it's almost like they're paralyzed by fear

but he didn't really know really digging in and said okay i'm going to do something different and i'm going to change what i've been doing which is uncomfortable in the first place let alone his life situation so i think it's amazing call us up or come visit us to do your debt-free screening that's right from homeless to debt-free that's a cool story that's inspiring man absolutely fun hour rachel thank

you so much big thanks to james childs our producer kelly daniels our phone screener and you america we appreciate you listening in we'll be back with you before you know it until then spend wisely save intentionally and give generously this is the rambly show

[Music] hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free screen live on the show make sure you visit thermzyshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm ramsay personality george campbell join this hour by rachel cruz

national number one best-selling author host of the rachel cruz show you name it she's it she's got it all folks and i'm excited to be co-hosting with her today taking your questions about life and money it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five if you're a gen z or millennial that's a phone number and if you pick up your phone there's a phone app

you can actually dial those numbers and it connects you with a real person don't throw the millennials i'm a millennial i'm the same way now we can we can throw it here's the thing rachel i'm the first one to not want to make a phone call i'd much rather text yes i know but to make the show interesting we have to hear you and so i just want to encourage people out

there who may not make a lot of phone calls to make it the day they do so you know speaking of phone calls can i tell you something i think we're going to do george this is so off topic we just need to get to the calls speaking of phones we're going back to a landline really at the crew's household we're going to get a landline tell me

the reasoning behind this for our girls they love talking on the phone but they always take our phones and i'm like wouldn't it be great for them and like obviously grandparents would just have their number but that they could call like my parents or winston's parents it's a real actual call and it's a phone and they and they got or they or how sweet would it be for someone to call

the landline and the and the girls feels like we're living in mr rogers neighborhood i love this isn't that great doesn't it just kind of take you back to just so we bought on amazon like like felt like actual phones very impressive anyways i thought winston was like a doomsday prepper and if the satellites go down i'm the conspiracy theorist you're here for that that's okay secret reason

i can't wait till the phone rings at home and um one of your girls answers and it's like would you like to re-extend your warranty for your whatever i know or your student loan is in deferment

like some spam i'm here for it though let me know how that goes okay so here's get it landline let's just go back to the day the good old days it's gonna it's gonna be vintage soon and cool just like the 90s clothing has been so did you ever have your own phone line 100 okay instead of the party line yeah where you could pick up yeah yeah not

the party line but you had like euro like we had a kids line growing up oh no no i wasn't that fancy and our um should i do our recording or so off topic right now james is about to shut are you ready james are you ready he's invested in this though go for it should we do this i'm sorry america i can't this is a treat okay

we did a wrap

please do this

this is rachel denise's line you know what to do leave a message get back to you wow there you go folks you didn't know you wanted to hear that but you got it and that is a friday treat you're welcome thank you so much for that rachel that is that was broadcast live on national radio yeah i want to remind you i know i mean did you have to like sing christmas songs on your recorder like no one made me yeah apparently it's a different time in

the ramsay household wow all right so behind the scenes for you folks terrible back to the back to the phones that matter tommy's on the line in phoenix arizona tommy i apologize and we're excited to talk to you how you doing hey no no worries i'm doing well thank you for taking my call guys did you expect to hear a rap from rachel cruz right before you talk to us

i didn't but to add to the conversation i'm actually a millennial so yeah tommy don't you want a landline back in your life doesn't that just feel better

i'd be down i used to talk to the operators all the time when i was younger my mom would be like tell me give me the phone tommy i love this guy well how can we help 69 i mean all of it that's great yeah yeah so my wife and i are somewhat newly married two and a half years in and um she's studying to actually become a doctor or a pa

so she's kind of in that waiting season right now so um i was just curious we're on baby step 3b and i was curious if i should just be throwing 100 of that right towards you know that fund for her schooling or if uh we should be investing uh through my company's uh retirement plan 401k plan a

little background we have about 75 000

in savings 20 of that being our six month emergency fund and so that leaves us with between 55 to 65 000 uh

towards school right now cool how much is school going to cost yeah so school depending upon if she wants to go the pa route or the doctor route in state uh it will be about 60 000 for uh for the three years uh for pa or a

160 000 for in-state doctorate program okay and that's 60 per year for three years no sir so it's not only the 35 per year it's awesome that's very reasonable yeah it is i think most of the time with doctors and pas they just think they're forced to take the loan route so they put in all of their spendings like housing food expenses and that's why they get

so uh this is just in-state tuition that's awesome well what's great about it too is she's gonna have to when will she have to make the decision for the 160 thousand dollar route when will that happen um probably within the next couple months right now because of coveting stuff she hasn't been been able to really get like any little to any shadowing hours and that's really uh pivotal for for um uh doctorate school

for medical school so um right now it's kind of looking like she might go the pa route because she has more experiences higher chances were getting uh uh approved essentially or accepted um but yeah that within the next couple months i'd say lord willing that's awesome well i mean on that route obviously you guys have the cash to and and you don't to pay at all up front obviously right you're gonna be paying as

she goes which is great which means you're gonna be able to still continue to save because you have this money set aside basically for her tuition and you'll still continue to be able to save and then um ideally you know if she goes the other route knowing that okay we're gonna have to save on the side uh and work harder and be more focused to continue to still cash flow her

if she chooses that 160 000 route um but

the 65 000 paid for route sounds

and here's the thing with pa if she goes the pa route she can always go the doctor route later correct uh that's kind of no not really you'd have to do everything over again all over

you'd have to go back to from what i understand you'd have to go back to medical school and then do the three four years of residency on top so it's not really uh it's they really try to differentiate the difference between pa and doctorate yeah and keep them separate so that way that there's the two distinct routes and so i guess for respecting doctors and the work

they put into it and things like that sure well so i would say on the money side though tommy if yes i would i would continue to invest um yeah for retirement if she goes the 65 000 out because you'll have it basically paid for it's there and you have your and you'll still have your your emergency funds uh in place so yeah that now if she goes

the other route then i would pause the investing and then just keep saving up cash and cash flow her through it but for her i would ask her too i mean that's a hundred thousand dollar difference i'm kind of just making these numbers seem like they're not that big of a difference that's a that's a big difference but and if the outcome yeah and if the outcome is

the same for her if she's getting what she wants out of her career out of both then it's the same i mean obviously i would i would pick the pa route just to be able to cash flow it and she could jump into it all of it uh but but if it's something that she's passionate about the the other routes then she can still do that you always have to pause a lot

and save a lot to make sure your cash flowing up yeah and the upside of the income from the doctor versus pa look into that and find out what the difference is and we want to make sure there's going to be a good roi on this regardless but cash flow it avoids student loan debt you guys are doing so great you're following the steps super proud of

you guys rockstar millennials look at that rachel they're out there you can find them this is the ramsay show

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still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry it's

worth it

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i'm george campbell my co-host today is rachel cruz this is the ramsay show if you aren't strapped with student loan payments odds are you know someone who is millions of people are putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck or even worse they're waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness what a joke our team produced a brand new documentary called borrowed future

and it is out now it uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you you'll see dave ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program along with featured interviews from industry insiders and thought leaders like seth godin seth fraughtman and dr john deloney we're coming at this hard folks we're taking big swings at

the student loan problem with the goal to arm parents and students across the country with the truth here's the truth you do not have to take out loans to get a college education you can graduate debt-free and avoid the predatory student loan industry borrowed future is available to watch now you can find it on apple tv amazon prime video google play or just go to borrowed future dot com rachel

i love that call we took before the break about student loans and his wife's going to go to med school debt-free i know isn't that great you don't hear that very often and it's because they had a plan and they they had a wise choice when it came to what college she's going in state and that whole program 60 grand for pa yes and

she's doing it and i and he's exactly right that you know when you just even entertain the idea of debt and you think okay well i mean we gotta it's got we have to have debt and you and you go down that mindset that trail then you're not nickel and diming everything you're you're adding stuff here and there and oh here here here do what i'm saying like you don't feel the urgency to get it as low as possible and that's on anything even a car right if you think oh i'm gonna have to get a car law and you're like oh yeah i'll do that upgrade here yeah it's 40 versus 50.

yeah you don't feel it um but when you pay cash that's one of the that's one of the beauties about it is that you end up spending less but also it's because you're working so hard to get the price down because you're like no this is my hard-earned money and you feel it and i wonder if there's data on this but people who pay cash for school

i wonder if they're more invested if they're studying like that if they're trying to ace the test because you paid good money for that or the graduation rates higher yeah yeah i wonder i i would guess that it's higher i'm sure there's that cash and i bet there's stuff out there for sure but i'm proud of them i'm proud of people going you know what their student loans aren't

the only path and we're going to forge our own path over here and we're going to do it with cash and uh they're going to do it and here's what's like when i'm sitting the seat especially and i'm talking to people like man it can be frustrating because we know it's possible we know it's possible choosing a school you can afford even going to a community college scholarships

and grants work like all of these this formula is it easy no it's not easy but it is possible and then when we you know talk to people that do have debt their largest amount of debt always is the student loan and it's like oh man i did a instagram post of some shoes that

i bought that it was like my buyer's remorse is what i say like my one of my spending regrets in life um and they and some people and so i asked people what's your biggest spending regret and so many it was student loans because it's like years later it's a degree they're not using um or they could have gone to a different school and gotten it half

you know the price of what they pay anyways i just thought that was fascinating i wasn't thinking when i thought spending time with you think about it purchase you don't think about student loans yeah yeah i was expecting like a thing and so but hearing so many student loan answers in there of the regret and i'm like yeah i mean it is it's a hard one so

the documentary bard feature it's it's amazing yeah go watch it if you haven't it's 88 minutes it's a great weekend watch and if you've got kids oh my goodness it's a great thing to watch with them because it sparks conversations what i found after talking with so many teens is that parents aren't having the conversations and so they're wandering into college when they're 17 18 going my parents never really talked about

it and they just said we'll figure it out next thing you know they co-signed loans or took out the parent plus loans or let the students go off and take out 200 grand on their own and it all comes down to communication expectations where are we at financially how much can we contribute and a lot of it stems from shame from the parents too yeah sure we can't pay for college

so we don't even want to talk about it right right but that's what i even love about this message of getting under like the underbelly of this whole industry because like you're saying these are 18 year olds making decisions so there is there's a part of me that i mean and that ramsay i'm like we want to fight for those 18 year olds it's not fair for them to walk in to an office

and they have no clue what they're doing because no adult has talked them through it and someone says sign and they sign because they don't really know i mean they're 18 years old like isn't it that your frontal uh like your brain cortex isn't even fully developed like 25 or something and i'm like oh you know they're making these decisions that follow them for the rest of their life

so parents i mean george i think that's great i think it's a great encouragement for parents to dig in and have the conversation yes talk about it go check it out borrowedfuture.com open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five alexandra joins us from chicago illinois alexandra welcome to the ramsay show hi george hi hi rachel how are you doing great how can

we help um i'm 32 years old i'm in baby step

number two for the first time in my life i feel like i have you know some control um 2020 really kicked me into gear to

start in my debt i started with 124 now i'm at 81 000.

way to go congratulations thank you i went from making less than 20 thousand a year to now making over 50.

great um but i'm having a little bit of guilt about a little bit quite a bit actually like this morning i'm crying about it um i'm having guilt with kevin um i have two brothers who live in

mexico and they are way under the poverty line and i feel that now i'm at a place where i can actually help them but everything that i'm doing in my budget and all the extra money that is going towards my my debt i feel like i should be helping them

i mean you have you have a beautiful heart i mean i can just hear over the phone your um your longing and compassion for brothers that you love and knowing that how their their their living conditions and living below the poverty line it's it's it hurts you right i can i can i can feel that um um i i have two thoughts around and george obviously i want to hear yours but my first is that we always encourage giving no matter even on baby step two we want you to be giving and really 10

is like our recommended percentage um because the element of giving it we want that even from the beginning because it makes it that much easier to continue to give as you start to build wealth so so that giving portion you can choose where to give that and so you know for uh people that are part of a local church for instance we say hey that can be your tithe

you can give that to your local church or if someone is not um have a spiritual walk it could be to a non-profit or something so alexandria i mean you could say hey this ten percent i'm gonna give to my brothers to help them right now um in this season i would not be mad at that it's not like you're enabling some bad behavior right i mean there's a they're just a totally different situation in mexico

and so um you could choose to do that and then still focus on your debt snowball because my my other point that i want you to hear is once you pay this off even though it's it's going to be a little bit of a journey for you still you you've you've knocked out for what forty thousand forty three thousand already which is amazing um and so you're going to be able to beat debt-free sooner than

you can even imagine and when you don't have those payments and you have that emergency fund you're going to be able to do so much more giving which is even more exciting and it's easier to give because you have the margin when you don't have the debt so i do want you to still be intense with it because because ultimately it gives you not just you freedom

but it gives you the ability to help others in that sense when you don't have the payments so um so if you want to be giving a little bit to them right now while you're out of debt of that giving portion of your budget i i i don't see anything wrong with that um because you you are helping

someone that's beautifully said and one thing i would add is you probably can't give them enough money to to get them out of the situation that's great and so i don't want you to feel like you have the burden to fix their life but what you can do is support them in figuring out what it looks like to get them back on their feet and that may not be monetary that might be finding them an opportunity um from where where

you sit in chicago and going hey let's find you a job where you're able to afford your bills and get out of this poverty situation and that may not mean the 50 to 100 bucks that you might be sending them every month but you've got a beautiful heart and we're cheering you on on your debt-free journey and definitely hopeful that your brothers can get out of this situation thank

you so much for that call sweet stuff rachel good stuff there this

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you're listening to the ramsay show i'm george campbell ramsey personality and host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by rachel cruz host of the rachel cruz show rachel in the first hour we took a call from a gentleman wondering if he should buy a car how much car he should be buying uh with some other goals he had going on and you decided to do a little poll on your instagram what was going on with that poll well

we were talking about you know how cars have become the status symbol right that's what dave always says in the opening of the show um and and how a car really is supposed to just get you from point a to point b but yet it's become this luxury item in our world that people love so i just asked the question i asked people to be honest i don't know

if they're very honest george that's a good start yeah yeah at least asking for honesty i did so i asked why do you want a nice car because of what other people think or you just like nice stuff and the winner which i guess i'm not shocked is i know i gotta get these up perfect okay was 93 like nice stuff okay seven percent

say because of what people think wow i i appreciate that the seven percent's honesty saying i'm just doing it for other people i just think it's more right it's gotta be i think the numbers or there was a third 66 people said because of what other people think 836 said wow uh because they like nice stuff again that was just in the last hour if there was an option c do you think most people would select that of a little bit about a little bit of both i like nice stuff i mean that would be i mean yeah i don't want to be ridiculed think about my tesla eighty percent is for me because i just genuinely 80 20.

that being your leader your leading motivator in life when it comes to money is terrible so that's like where it gets super unhealthy it'll set you up for failure yeah yeah and i always ask the question if nobody sees the purchase do you still want it and i've done that with my tesla dreaming and yeah i do like it like literally no one ever saw i want to sit and drive an electric car so

bad yeah it's fun what's your dream car nobody's even if nobody saw it like that you just genuinely were like oh that would be fun i'm going tesla too because i'm a giant nerd and i like the tech i just like the technology i don't need the revving engine like dave does dave's like i don't hear

that's not a car that's a computer listen if i never had to do an oil change again praise jesus god we just spent so car ah man why are we getting on the scene we had car repairs uh this month this month and the oil pan which i don't even know that's a thing had to be replaced and that's like what is supposed to be replacing cars that have like 200 000 miles now mine's up in like 90 000.

so i just had a quick question um i am about to which not careers but jobs

um i'm currently work as a correctional nurse and i make about 120 000 a year

and i'm going to go be a school nurse to have my kids full schedule and my salary is going to drop down to about 80 000 a year and my husband makes about 120 as well

and we just sold our car so we just got

rid of 33 000 and we have about 35 000 in credit card

debt and about 180 in our mortgage

so i just wanted to know i'm just having a hard time with the whole salary reduction and how much is enough for a

family that's a great question and you guys are in california and so i know this looks different for people in high cost of living areas but you don't get a pass on the math and the truth is it really doesn't matter i mean there's people who make forty thousand dollars who live very comfortably there's people who live in million dollar houses who feel like they don't have enough and so what's gonna make you feel like you have enough is when you have margin and right now you've got a pile of debt here in thirty five thousand dollars of credit card debt that's making you feel like you don't have enough and so can you live on 200 000 income which is what you'll go to in california comfortably yeah you can but not when you have a pile of debt breathing down your net emeraldo what's the 35 000.

and just like odds and ends that have piled up over the years yeah so over the years you've been paying on this debt for a long time probably about two years just kind of

the last year and a half we've just kind of been living life and um yeah buying stuff going on vacation and

now that i'm able to i finished my bsn so i was able to apply for a school nurse position and now that i'm actually going to take it i'm like whoa well i know i'm going to take a picture but now i'm like oh is this the right move right now brett yeah well me here's the deal you're still going to be making around 200 if you're making 80 he's making 120

you guys are still making an incredible income and so y'all's issue is gonna have to be hey i'm gonna have to set some boundaries and actually get serious about this because you guys have kind of just been floating around having fun going on vacation buying stuff and just not really thinking because you've had the money to cover your mistakes and suddenly when you don't have the money to cover your mistakes anymore

and you're down forty thousand dollars a year yeah it's gonna you're gonna feel it exactly what you're calling right you're feeling that intensity and and as well that's the intensity that you're going to have to clean this up i mean people they do it all the time and and if i were you guys i mean your life is going to look drastically different for the next nine months of your life like

i would buckle down and do nothing i would i would sell some stuff you guys bought on those credit cards that you're not using anymore i would not go out to eat i would not go on vacation i would do nothing and i would get rid of this because if you can take this intensity and actually get serious about it this 35 000 will go away you guys have

the income to be able to do it you're going to be able to really knock this out even if you go and take the nursing job which is not mad if you do that i think that if that's what you're wanting to do that's great because you guys still are going to have a great income to pay this off but you got to get serious about it

and you guys have not been serious about this and man when you pay this off like george said it's going to put you in a different spot it is going to it is going to bring the freedom that you're wanting right now to be able to switch jobs and not feel distressed

okay yeah we sold our cards on monday

which that took off 33 000 and we have two other cards that are paid for so we're good with that and my husband's like i'm so proud of you you actually gave up a nice luxury car to drive your paid off car i was like well i want to do this i want to be able to be home and spend more time with the kids and you know my salary eventually will go up to a hundred thousand in about three years each year i'll get a pay raise

and of course he will as well so yeah i guess it's just a drop down right now that i'm like oh we're gonna get to get adjusted a little bit and well here's the thing esmerelda you called asking how much money do you need to live comfortably and right now i don't want you to be comfortable i want you to be uncomfortable for a short season so that

you can live your best life later on completely debt free because clearly this comfortable living doing whatever you guys wanted to do it's not a great life because you're sitting here with a little bit of anxiety about is money enough and what about these bills that we're paying and maybe some buyers remorse some regret some shame and i don't want any of that in your life and

you guys have a fantastic income like rachel said buckle down get rid of this thing in six months and uh clean up get an emergency fund in place do you guys have any savings right now we do we have about um like 20 000 or so

okay well if you're following the baby steps throw it at the debt you've got 1 000 starter and 19 is gonna get thrown on that 35 of credit card debt and all of a sudden you're gonna go oh my gosh we can see the light at the end of the tunnel i would write a big check tonight esmeralda i really would because i i y'all need a shock

you need like george said you kind of just been floating around like you you need something to kind of shock the system and man when you do that and you soccer and you said okay we're gonna just throw this get rid of all this other debt pay down the credit card it's gonna make you get into gear to pay off the rest because you're gonna want that emergency fund back

because you want to get comfortable again which i don't blame you uh but you need a little you need a little shock to the system yeah i'm here for it you guys got it you guys got it esmerell you could do this i'm not worried about it but you're gonna have to get some self-discipline in place and get uncomfortable so that you can be comfortable later on that's true financial peace

this is the ramsay show

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i'm george campbell joined today by rachel cruz you are listening to the ramsay show give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll talk about your life and your money pat joins us in sioux falls pat welcome to the ramsay show hello yeah hey i just started a little business in llc and i went to the bank to get a an account business account going

and they recommended a credit card that they did yeah they did and uh you know back in my mind i knew what they would say but um i'm calling to see if i was right about what they would say no credit cards it doesn't matter if it's business or personal or nothing that that that sounds about right to me uh did you end up doing it i did

but oh boy um but i can cancel it so i haven't even got it in the mail yet like i said i was going i was wavering and i called my wife and she said yeah i get it you know and then and i still went back and forth and then i said well i tried to call you guys like yesterday too but hey hey don't put

this on us pat all right i got voicemail you can sign up for the credit card pat i got voicemail so i decided to go into debt uh well pat tell me this what was your reasoning going you know what i'm just gonna go ahead and do that probably gave you some good some good excuses well i'll tell you i'll tell you what it was it was um my wife was thought

the 1.5 would be cash back would be ah cash back you talk to successful business owners and they're like man the 1.5 is what did it so i'm going to be a multiple you know a bunch of this it's just a little small business and i just you know it happened so fast you're filling out all these forms from this llc and everything else and you know

then this and that and so yeah i can get rid of it i just wanted to check with dave before i didn't whenever it comes to these decisions pat i like to go who benefits from this decision and in this case the bank benefits from this decision that's why they're pushing the credit card is because they're not going to make a whole bunch of money from you taking out a business debit card they're hoping

you rack up some some debt on this thing and pay a whole bunch of interest over the course of your life running this business so i'd like to win i appreciate you guys taking my call absolutely thanks pat thanks for cutting it up as soon as as soon as that card comes in cut it up and maybe go to a different bank uh just to just to stick

it to them and get a business debit card that's what bank will do the same thing george well go to a credit union i just don't want to do business with a bank that sold me a credit card that's all i'm saying that's what they all do though right well yeah i mean they're banks this is this is what they do they're out to make money that's what they're doing

but uh that's what we do here at ramsey right so we're a big company millions upon millions of dollars and we only use debit cards sure believe it or not yep yep even the real estate here is paid for we move at the speed of cash is what we say around here um and what it does though i mean from on a business perspective is it makes

you make different business decisions when you are using cash when you're using debt there's a level of oh we try to test it if it doesn't i don't know you know you're not as emotionally kind of freaked out but when it's your cash you're like i'm gonna make sure this thing that we're investing in is gonna give me some roi you just you have a deeper emotional investment

when it's your own money and then on the flip side on the consumer side with the points i mean this is when we hear all the time george so people have credit cards you know whether it's oh it's a just-in-case thing or i do it for the airline miles and the points and what i've you know one thing i want people to realize is that you know

when because people do pay off their credit cards every month right there are people out there they're paying off and they're quote unquote benefiting and they're they are getting the cash back all that but you understand you're getting all of these points because other majority of people the average american is carrying 16 000 credit card balance so people because they are mismanaging their money and the banks are making tons of money off that

you now quote unquote get to reap the benefits of a system that's screwing people and they're putting people in bad positions so i'm like i don't even want to play the game i don't even want the points because because you're you're not you're doing it dirty money a little bit is what it feels like because i'm like because there's some you know single mom out there is trying to make her bills

and she's using the credit card to help her in that because it's the only thing she knows and i get a i get a free 70 southwest fly i'm like no no i

will pay for my own southwest flight thank you like i don't there's a moral argument to be made that we really don't talk a bunch here ramsay solutions we stick to the financial part but there is a part where it's just it's a corrupt industry and it's hurting people and you have to decide do i want to be a part of an industry that does this to people

i don't want to play the game and yeah 1.5 is not going to change your life it's a few hundred bucks back and i tell i tell people give yourself some cash back that's what you can do when you live a debt-free life and you have the margin in your budget and if i want to go on vacation i don't have to hope that i have the points at

the end of the year we just budget for it and go on vacation that's right that's simple yes so we've got an episode all about this on my podcast the fine print and it's called the true cost of credit card rewards so if this is you and you're out there and you're going well what if i pay it off every month and what if and what if

and what if and you're wrong just go listen to the episode uh we talked to an ex capital one employee elena who really dished she spilled the tea all right on on the credit card industry 10 000 social experiments they run you're just a you're just a mouse in their maze wow when you get to the cheese you think but i'm winning i got cheese and then

you zoom out and you go no you're just a mouse in a lab being socially experimented on wow so go check out that episode uh you can go to fineprintpodcast.com or just search for the fine print wherever you listen to podcasts all right let's take a call here we've got lauren in las vegas nevada lauren welcome to the ramsay show

i'll get him next time thank you kelly for putting me through um real quick um my husband and i were on baby step six yay for the program congrats of you guys thank you um we just moved into our home here in vegas and we did it the ramsay way um we're just trying to decide um how much to save for home improvements versus paying down our mortgage

after everything we have about a surplus i mean on average from two to five thousand that you know i either put towards paying off the mortgage but then i thought maybe i should pause doing that and save for improvements i don't know well i i don't think it's in either or here i mean how urgent are these improvements are these nice to haves or is like the roof gonna collapse

no these are definitely nice to have um we plan to be in this house for i mean as much as you can plan right uh

ten years yeah at least you know we're in a neighborhood we picked this neighborhood for our kids we want to grow up and you know have our kids grow up with friends in the neighborhood so that's where we're at it's awesome uh how much is left on the mortgage um a good number um i mean uh yeah you can't shock us just throw it out there okay one million yeah okay we're still here

and you said you did at the ramsey way which makes me think you guys can afford you put 20 down or 10 10 to 20 down and the mortgage payments no more yep i i just sound funny to say out loud

what's your household income i'm curious yeah it's um i mean the 350 base and then add-ons yeah great it's awesome you guys are doing great way to go thank you yeah my husband works very hard and we're a good team so well don't be ashamed yeah so i think um so lauren with the money you guys are putting extra you said you're having you have two to five thousand

i guess a month so you're saying extra on average yeah yeah so yeah when i say that because some it's not we don't have overage and then other days or other months we have like 5k it's just the timing of things totally so well at this point here's what i would do and george you obviously i don't hear your thoughts but um you guys look at so

the mortgage you got about a million left and i would do i would do a 10-year plan that you're gonna be in this house for 10 years and say okay when do we want this mortgage paid off like when would it feel great and do some math to see okay what's realistic if we because again you're on baby step six so we say this is the time

you get to kind of take your foot off the gas enjoy life a little do some house improvements you can do some of this but i would still have a time frame a goal just for you and your husband to know hey we would love to have our house paid off in x amount of time and that could be in five years that could be in seven years

but kind of aggressive because we really want you to have that house paid off um but that feels good but for you to still have margin in your budget to live life because i still want you to say hey okay so that's our goal is to get it paid off here so then how much extra do we have per month to play with how much how many vacations

we want to take a year um you know do we do a one improvement on the house maybe one every year and we cash flow it so you you can still live your life lauren so it is going to be it's not an either or uh it is a both but it's a it's a decision yeah we don't want to be wasteful because i've got to tell

you i was what your dad called a princess before

i know you're you're not being wasteful at all you're doing great just just allocate to both and start saving up in a sinking fund and maybe you start paying off the house once those improvements are done hardcore waiting good job though laura you're doing great that puts this hour in the books this is the ransomware family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about

the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm george campbell host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by rachel cruz host of the rachel cruze show and best-selling author and we are excited to take your calls this hour about life

and money so give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five michaela kicks us off in kansas city missouri mikayla welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call we're glad to take it how can we help so i'm a small business owner

married we have two younger kiddos and

um just gosh with everything that's going on in washington um they officially passed the um whatever you want to call it the buildback whatever uh bill today and knowing the implications that that is going to have on me as a small business owner um especially in my industry um i'm just kind of curious we um are so close i guess you

could say to paying off our home and knowing that this bill fundamentally fiscally changes um the system of

finance in america i'm told my finite

mind um comprehends that it changes the

stock market as we know it and there's potential for it to crash and not come back and this is not like whatever conspiracy of it whatever this is just all the information that people throw at you right and so i'm i'm kind of wondering do i should we pull out what we have in the stock market to just finish paying off our home not knowing whether or not

you know the kgb is going to cut i mean the irs is going to come and you know then audit and close down all small businesses or let's do a quick exercise together we're going to take a deep breath we're going to do three in and three out hold for three seconds in yeah right and then out for three there we go okay it's not past the senate

we got our news source it is it is not past the senate okay okay did you hear that okay okay so it's not it has not passed yet i am a bill on capitol hill did you you know that you know listen rachel's all about some singing today so you might get some of that because i might be rapping about how laws are in place i mean jesus could come tomorrow

but i still i'm still going to pay my bills up until that moment and so i understand that you have valid fears especially as a small businessman it's just fair p.s i don't i don't want to invalidate i get it yes but on the side of the market's going to crash and i don't need to upheave my life i don't think we're going to be able to time

it if it happens so if i'm you i'm going to keep living my life here now i do want to know about your investments when you say pull out money out of the stock market what do you have invested currently

um well we kind of i feel like have a little bit of everything kind of everywhere so we've got um and i think it's if i understand right it's like 60 40 in um conservative

um like stocks and bonds versus like more aggressive are you invested in mutual funds or single stocks um some of both some of both um we do have um an ira

um a roth iras i am um you know

obviously self-employed my husband um does not have a um yeah i mean he just started his new job and so we don't have like a 401k there um we do have i have a small business

emergency fund that's separate just in like an ally account um and then we thought our other

emergency three to six months for our personal home so it's just kind of everywhere um how much do you have so let's separate retirement from non-retirement so we're not going to touch retirement let's just take that off the table we're not going to pull any money out of our retirement accounts how much money do you have outside of that in just a general brokerage account uh all of them together probably about

40 or so and then because i am a sole proprietor llc technically everything in my small business account is mine i could pull it out i have about 90 in there and how much do you have left on the mortgage about 80 okay it's the home's worth about i could we could sell it right now our neighborhood's pretty hot um we could sell it for about 340 probably right now

okay so we've got 80 left on the mortgage you have 40 000 just sitting out there in general mutual funds and stocks that are non-retirement correct right okay so that portion i would say yes let's pull that out not out of fear but just because the best use of that money right now is paying off this mortgage versus being in the stock market especially the ones that are in single stocks that are super volatile and risky okay so that cuts you down to 40.

enneagram ones also that also that thank you for being here you've encountered enneagram rachel i know you all right yes i see you michaela i see you um part of it so i was in business with a family member there was some trauma there um the business or the family member that i was in business with decided um after me finally getting it for myself and saying no more um didn't understand why

she wouldn't be paid for not working decided that she would just take all of our money out of the account close the account i had no idea um and it then like then it took like three years to sort of rebuild because i knew i wasn't going anywhere i loved what i did um i knew that's where i was supposed to be um so a lot of yeah a lot

i guess trauma there and so i just i this sounds horrible but like i hoard it there i think because sure out of the fear yeah but what if that happened yes 100 percent yeah it doesn't get it it's not right

i have my i have my emergency fund uh

for my business but i don't know i mean i'm self-employed you never know especially with taxes being raised like you never know really um in an industry

like i'm in you never really know exactly how much you're going to owe in taxes because your profit fluctuates so much like 2020

we operated at 11 that we operated at in 2019 because i'm

in the wedding industry so do you have a tax professional that you work with right now oh yeah oh yeah okay well work with them and get facts on paper because as john doloni says facts are your friends and let's not live in just fear and paranoia and i understand that you have legitimate fears but what i want you to do is just turn off the news slow down your life

and do the next right thing that you need to do every day go work in your business and don't live by the headlines because truthfully they're overblown and it's never as crazy as they say it is on both sides i'm not this is not a political party i do love conspiracies but rachel does kayla so i can jump on the train and go there that's ramsay after dark it's where rachel shares her conspiracy theories

but uh michaela i really appreciate the call and uh way to go in your business and just take a deep breath well that money feeling so great put it toward the mortgage like you said and start work and chip that mortgage away yep and you're doing great you'll have some awesome financial peace you'll sleep a lot easier with no mortgage but no more paranoia no more fear no more headlines just take a break for safety's sake

this is the ramsay show

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this is a big week here at ramsey you know most people know dave ramsey is the rich guy on the radio and that he is he made his first million in his 20s and he did it the wrong way and went bankrupt many of you know that story and that's when he set out to learn god's ways of managing money and created the ramsay baby steps and by following

these steps dave became a millionaire again and this time he did it the right way with zero debt he spent the next three decades guiding millions through the same plan he followed and today the evidence is undeniable if you follow the baby steps you will become a millionaire and get to live and give like no one else and he covers all of this in his new book called baby steps millionaires that's available for pre-order now you'll learn how ordinary people build extraordinary wealth

and how you can do it too it's not out of reach he walks you through how to invest build wealth and bust through the barriers preventing you from becoming a millionaire so for those who are ready it's game on you can baby step your way to becoming a millionaire you can pre-order your copy today at ramsaysolutions.com and we sweeten the deal we've got over a hundred dollars worth of bonus items

when you pre-order including the baby steps millionaire's audiobook and e-book and dave actually reads the audiobook himself which is that's going to be a good time you also get the legacy journey audiobook and ebook and the baby steps millionaires live stream along with ramsey smart tax you can file for free using that including a ramsay plus 30 day free trial there's so much in there rachel i'm super pumped for

this book and the cover is just beautiful i must say say that same thing such a beautiful it's dave on the farm at sunrise i know he's out in the field very excited in the wild yes with a no teeth smile and this has been

the smirk and uh this is dave's first book in a long time i know it's an awesome a long time and so i'm pumped for it there's some awesome stories in here you're gonna learn how dave personally invests his money and uh i'm i'm baby stepping my way to be a millionaire i'm excited to pay off my house maybe by the end of the year close you

and whitney fingers crossed by the end of the year rachel we're paying off the house by the end of the year like yes oh my gosh george i know i know are you gonna do a debt-free scream i want to do you think it'd be weird no okay that's a new poll should george do a dead freezer i'm here for maybe with confetti we also don't really have a say it's going to be kelly

so we have to decide if kelly wants me to do that free spring oh kelly decides

when he pays off his house at the end of the year yes kelly said yes america it's gonna happen that's like a and that's a big deal and i'm just i'm so proud of you and whitney the way you guys went about that whole thing because i remember you guys building yeah you because it was it was a newer build yep and you were able to pick up

the finishes and you guys were being so smart about the upgrade i mean all of it and and you did it so well thank you i'm excited that means a lot it's awesome yeah it's been just over two years so it can be done i'm not that special i'm not like a financial genius we just followed the baby steps and we created margin by paying off our debt

and we've been been investing diligently and those of you know my story my wife works here at ramsey solutions so not a huge leap to get her on board she's all in on this stuff and so we're super excited and i just want everyone to know that the stuff in this book is not theory it's real stories real everyday people not you know athletes and celebrities they're everyday people they're teachers they're engineers who just diligently saved

and followed the steps and did it so i'm super pumped for this book make sure you go grab your copy at ramseysolutions.com open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two is the number to call jessie joins us in springfield jesse welcome to the ramsey show hey guys thanks for having me on absolutely how can we help well my wife and i are on baby step number two um just kind of just getting

the ball rolling right now however we got a call my uncle passed away and my sister and i are his heirs

wow i'm sorry to hear that

oh thank you guys i appreciate it it was it was a pretty sudden but you know he's in a better place than we are i guess yeah um so we know it's going to be a substantial amount of money it should be somewhere between 100 and 150 um for my sister and and for myself but we know it was not in the will but we do know his wishes that

he wanted to take care of my kids and my sister's kids colleges my wife and i are on the fence of whether or not we use this money to get

out of all of our consumer debt everything but the home and fund the college ourselves or whether or not we just leave this money invested and to use it for their college how many kids do you have and what are the ages i have two that are six and three okay so we've got a long ways away for college and how much debt do you have yes consumer debt other than the mortgage consumer debt if you count school loans it's about 120.

okay and when you said 100 250 is that each so you're saying two to three hundred total um correct okay so if we're saying two to three hundred total here and you have 120 in debt that means you can clean up the debt wait no he's going to get 150 the sister will get 150.

oh the sister yes yes i think it's split in half yep so 100 to 150 so with this money you will maybe be able to clean up all of your consumer debt and that's it correct yes and then you're saying can we just then fund our kids college and will that be enough to kind of be a blessing to the legacy that he left you right that's exactly the question yeah

this may be a little technical i don't know this is kind of what went in my head because i don't know if you feel this jessie because there's two ways you can look at it one it's like yeah you use the money strictly for hit what he wanted is what you know of the kid's college um or you used to pay off debt and like you're saying go through

the baby steps by the time your kids are are 18 you're gonna have plenty of money to send them to college um so there's like kind of the or i like that kind of the both options so what you could do if you if it makes you sleep better at night you could open up you know a 529 or an

esa and start out

with a little bit to put in there so it's like you start the college fund with his money and then use the remaining to pay off your debt and then as you and your wife get to baby step five then you guys fund the rest of it but almost it's kind of like he his money kind of kicked off a little bit of the funds you know just special because if you put some money in there now at their age you've got uh 12 and 15

years for that money to grow and the esa has a has a limit so i think it's close to about 2 000. yeah so that's 4 000 of

150 000 just to get them started

jesse just so there's kind of a okay i don't know a little bit of a symbolism there yeah just to say hey there's there's some of that and then using the rest yep to pay off your debt because again his legacy for them to go to college will be fulfilled because of you

guys either way it's because of that legacy he left that's right that to me it's still there yeah but i like what rachel's saying about starting that esa for them right now and you could front load a 529 and get that money rolling in your favor and the the limits on that are going to be a lot different and so you can put a lot more in

there but make sure you've got a good option for your area i would connect with a smart investor pro in your area you can jump onto ramseysolutions.com they're going to really help guide this decision and

figure out what is the best vehicle to make sure that your kids colleges are paid for and that this money grows in the best way yeah but but jesse hear me say though i would i would still take majority of it and pay off the debt though like i mean i'm just saying take a little bit of it just to kind of start it out of memory for him but i would still use majority of it i would i would i would put it towards the debt um to set you and your wife up to really fund those colleges sooner than later maybe set a goal you guys propose now that you guys propose that option what makes sense to me is if i were to pay off my all we have is two vehicles and a school loan so if we paid off the two vehicles and put the rest into a 503 then the the snowball would already be so big we would be through the school loan in no time okay what's your household income uh about 110 okay so either way we're gonna get rid of this debt fast um but i do like the idea of setting aside some of the money uh for that the college for the kids and letting that grow for the next 12 to 15 years and maybe set a goal and say hey we're gonna we're gonna make sure that we have a hundred thousand saved by the time both of them are 18.

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i'm george campbell joined today by rachel cruz you are listening to the ramsay show open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five

our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsay to get the best deal today's question comes from joshua in indiana my wife and i are debt free including our house becoming debt-free has been important to us

because of the spiritual component of not owing anyone anything my problem is that i don't know many people that are truly debt-free the people i know who are successful with money have taken out heloc's on paid for homes to invest the money in the stock market or real estate my financial advisor thinks that i'm silly to not leverage some form of debt with interest rates being so low my wife

and i are considering doing a home addition that would cost around 100 to 125 000 my advisor says that i should take out a hundred thousand dollar equity from take out a hundred thousand dollars of equity from my house invest it and use the earned interest to pay for the remodel this makes sense and sounds very appealing however i'm fighting not to wanting to get back into debt

i hear dave talk about your study of millionaires and how people that got out

of debt never go back into debt again unfortunately i just don't see that done around me what am i missing

a lot to unpack here rachel man where to begin george so first of all joshua way to go baby step seven yeah paid off the house i hope you stay there joshua you're starting to move backwards so well here's the thing he's asking the people i know who are successful have taken out heloc's on paid off homes to invest the money in the stock market and it really comes down to what is your definition of success is

it people who leverage debt up to their eyeballs and one day the market crashes and their life is screwed and they have to file for bankruptcy or is it i don't owe anyone anything and you said in the beginning that becoming debt-free has been important because of the spiritual component of not owing anyone anything so here's what's hard about all of this especially when you get into

this conversation about investing and real estate and i can invest my mortgage payment make more on the interest and you know i mean like there's all these taxes interest rates are so low you're stupid to pay it off yeah about the mortgages or even things like this like the heloc but here's what people you touched on this george but it's just true here's what people don't take into consideration is

the amount of risk that you're putting on yourself that you don't have right now joshua you have no risk if something happens right now you haven't paid for it you're fine like you don't bills and suddenly when you start kind of messing around and again the math could work you could we could sit here and do a whole math lesson and it could come out on paper right like

it could come out but what you don't factor in is risk you don't factor in life you don't factor in you know that that something could you know happen to your i mean this terrible say but right that something could happen to your wife and and she wants to stay home then with the kids not work and now you have this bill and you took this out

and now you have to have the income because you took on this debt i mean like it just snowballs into this insanity and you don't have to step into that and so there's a level of that freedom that i think is way more successful than messing around with the numbers and trying to kind of get rich quick is what it feels like i want to i want an easy way to build wealth well

this is easy um instead of actually working and saving i'm paying for something i'm gonna finagle the market and finagle my assets that i have here to try to make some you know it's like this math game you know what get out of the game just save them and pay for stuff it can be that simple and that clean yeah and it's amazing that they've done the baby steps yeah

and they're still at this place mentally of was this the right choice i mean do you want a mortgage again joshua buyer your financial advisor 100 stupid

get rid of them i highly doubt they're smartvestor pro because they don't have the heart of a teacher they're telling you to go back into debt and invest it and use the earned interest to pay for this remodel that's dumb you guys have the money how much is he getting huh that's the question who's going to win in this scenario joshua if i'm

you've got to stop looking to the culture to figure out what success looks like financially because they don't have a clue man walk down the streets look at all the cars with loans on them the homes that are over leveraged and you tell me what success is when the bank can't come take your house when you can't make a payment yeah and so you have all the income in

the world you don't know anyone anything and therefore you can pay for that home edition of a hundred thousand dollars you can save up and pay cash for it cash flow that thing without needing to take equity from the house and do all kinds of stupid don't go backwards that's right keep going forward thanks thanks for asking joshua good good question there steve joins us from wichita steve welcome to

the ramsay show thank you for taking my call sure how can we help yeah well i'm trying to make a decision here i am i've been a uh straight commissioned salesperson for through the years i'm an independent contractor i've been very well in it um

last year was a bit of a struggle because of covid it did affect my business and um but i still had a pretty average year

income wise last uh so then this year uh thinking that everything would get quite a bit better it actually hasn't my business is down about 40 this year

um so my struggle here is um wondering if i

should use some cash to pay off my house and a truck loan um being on straight commission i'm just not really comfortable pulling the trigger on that how much money do you have in in cash and savings well right now i've got um close to right around 100 000 in cash uh liquid cash um i've got about 70 cash on hand i've got a ten thousand dollar emergency fund and about a year ago i started another independent uh sales job it only doesn't sales but an independent business that i make about 20 000 a year on that also i'm trying to keep that separately so what's your average yearly income obviously this year was different yeah with um with the straight commission i'm usually around 80 to 110 000.

and how much do you have in that in total uh the only debt i have is uh 41 000 on

a house and about 13 on a truck we have no other debt okay um i am

getting ready to do a home improvement that i will use about 15 000 in cash to do that um what i'm seeing here on paper is you could pay off the truck loan pay off your house and do these home renovations all with the money you have and still have some left over and still have your emergency fund is that right that's true i'm just being on being on straight commission for 30 years

you know it's just you want to have a bigger emergency fund in case the sales don't come in yeah yeah you know and it's just like said it is something i could do um i'm just hesitant to pull the trigger on how about this steve if you don't have a mortgage your expenses are going to go down right so there's less to worry about there and so

then i would plan out what does six months of expenses look like if i didn't have a mortgage and that's going to give you some peace here way more than having the car loan and the mortgage riding on your shoulders yeah because steve you'll have about 30 i mean from what i jotted down if i got the numbers right you mean you'll still have about 30 000 left over

after you do all of that um which is a pretty solid emergency fund you can always bump that up if it still does that doesn't make you comfortable and i know the income went down you said what kind of business are you in what are you selling promotional products and corporate apparel okay

and so with uh kovad last year there

were no events everybody started canceling events and i thought it would take up quite a bit this year and it just hasn't come up to my expectations as far as my business goes now i don't know what next year is going to do you know right i don't know yeah but um this year's down that's why i'm hesitating this year to you know go ahead and chunk that money out

and steve do you have anything in retirement do you have anything in retirement yeah my wife uh just retired so she's you know she's got her social security and we do have investments that we haven't tapped into yet so she's pulling social security only okay um i'm 64 so

i'm not ready to retire and i probably won't retire till i reach full retirement age okay that's great well i want you to still be thinking about that before the house has paid off if you want to throw some extra at the retirement just because you're getting close to that age yep yeah but man the true financial security true financial piece is gonna come from not owing anyone anything get rid of that mortgage get rid of the truck loan you'll still have plenty of money left over well done this is the ramsay show [Music]

[Applause]

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so

our scripture of the day comes from proverbs 13 12.

hope deferred makes the heart sick but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life

dale carnegie said most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five you know rachel i was just with uh my pal dr john deloney yeah and he gave me these uh these little cards and he just released

these and they're really fun they're called questions for humans by dr john deloney and it's literally a pack of cards a deck of cards that have questions and there's three different kinds you get the parents and kids edition the couple's edition and the friends edition and he gave me the parents and kids edition which i don't have kids and he gave us the couple's edition and we thought

you know what let's try our hand at this and george was like at the break okay let's go through a couple and pick some out and i said no george let's just randomly pick out of the deck this is delony we have full um permission because george and i are not a couple that we get to put at least two back if they're like inappropriate a couple questions

because it's doctor johnson to be clear uh this is fun the reason he did this he's always telling people to unplug to connect with real people and this is a way to actually have real conversation instead of staring at each other awkwardly okay here's my first one um if you could try three different careers what would they be oh that's a fun one am i answering for myself or does

this like you answer i answered and i'll answer okay three different careers what would they be number one i would be a political correspondent that's good for a news network yep

absolutely follow campaigns rounds number two i would be a singer oh nice arena style like tv

okay oh yeah like i would but i i almost would go for the younger generation like the whole miley cyrus hannah montana thing you know she she you're the crowd she dropped hannah montana i'm like you could have taken that brand hannah montana could have gone to college hannah montana could have gotten married sorry like she could have made bank on that brand but she decided to go different directions clearly but i would have done that i would have done like the teeny bopper yep yeah all right and then my third um um

oh my gosh maybe like a like like um

like on a caribbean island type situation that's not is that how is that a career i'm not sure you just want to be on a caribbean island i'm just going to be a president well there you go folks she wants to be a political correspondent a pop star or just live on the caribbean okay for me i'm gonna go uh late night show host okay uh a rockefeller center would be fun yeah that's a one career uh mailman

really there's something about such a simple you're just delivering people the most i love it and you just walk around everyone loves the mailman

yeah you get to wear the shorts with the high socks it's kind of like dorky and old school mr rogers had a mailman it just feels cool i love that george you could do that and then lastly weatherman oh meteorologist i grew up watching meteorologists and on the news and i just thought that looks like fun you know a storm trace chaser would be fun you're much more adventurous i just want to be in front of the green screen pointing rachel wants to be in the middle of the storm oh my george the year this

this is what america needs uh all right if you if i took you to a tattoo parlor right now and you had to get a tattoo what would it be that's a fun one i would get like kids initials winston like i would do like a like a a family oriented like a yeah something um i don't know if i'd want to visit i don't know maybe like on my like my ring oh that would be nice yeah like all

the initials on your right do that yeah yeah sweet something like that that's what would you do george um i was gonna say my wife's name but i feel like getting an actual little like camel symbol like a little you know cause my last name's camel with a k it only feels right to get an actual camel um maybe with whitney's initials in it that would make

it sweet and not as weird but i'm not a tattoo guy i'm not you know no one would take me seriously if i had a full sleeve no they're like nah we don't buy it i'm like well crap it's on my body forever now yeah you know we got a lot of tatted people here at ramsey and they look really cool one of our engineers in the booth james childs no tattoos okay uh

i well uh folks if you want to check these out you can go to ramseysolutions.com uh they've got a deck of cards for couples for parents and kids um and for friends yes so there we go check it out questions for humans by dr john dolone this is great to bring home for the holidays yes because it's sometimes hard to connect with with family and you're trying to catch up

and this kind of relieves the tension and you really learn a lot and you'll have a lot of laughs and uh it's a great mailman george with the camel tattoo yeah i always was obsessed with ups guys all the brown i had a thing for the color brown yeah just total i don't know what what they always bring happiness you know all right let's take a call uh

before james takes us off the air scott joins us in minneapolis minnesota scott welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for having me hey how can we help today uh so i'm a 29 year old um currently

paying an additional 2 400 on my the principle of my mortgage each month way to go i should have it yeah thanks um i

should have it paid off by december of 2023 if i keep on being able to pay the same amount um i don't really enjoy my job right now and i was thinking about going back to college and getting into maybe a field of engineering or finance just kind of wondering an opinion should i wait until i pay off my house before going back to college or should

i call it paying off my mortgage on hold so that i don't have to go into student loan debt and i can instead use that money for my student loans or yeah that's a great it's a great question well here's the thing uh i don't think you need to you don't have to be in a rush to pay off the house i don't want you to be miserable for years

and just to say well i paid off my house now i can pay cash for school can you pay save up and pay cash for school as soon as possible and then attack the house after that

i mean i'm sure that i could and especially if i get into a higher paying job after college then probably even be easier to pay off the loan and that's sort of what i'm wearing right now what's your income um right now i make 46 000 a year and my

wife makes about 20 000 so combined close to about 70. and you have 2 400

extra to put on the mortgage every month after all said and done yep absolutely because i've been following the baby steps got all out of debt and we don't have many extra expenses we just kind of live minimalist that's awesome so great um scott do you know what you want to do um like i almost would want you to have like a career out there that you're working towards um

before you go get a degree because there are situations that you don't even need a degree depending on where you work where you could change jobs and not feel like you have to go and invest in a degree now some some career paths obviously you have to have higher education um for so that would make total sense but i just wonder if there's something out there that

you could do that still gets that fulfillment you can change career paths without having to get a degree sure what i'm looking at out of my degree right now would be environmental engineering would be kind of the goal or possibly a personal financial person

would be kind of my idealistic world but yeah i've looked into other things like certificates and things i could get as well and none of them have really stuck to me as much as those career paths sure sure which is yeah totally fine well um yeah i think once you kind of figure out and narrow down hey this is the path i want to do whether it is doing engineering or personal finance but once you kind of figure that out then going for a degree that you're going to need in the dream job after

you know if you if you hold on scott kelly can pick up and give you uh ken coleman's new book paycheck to purpose because he walks people through a plan kind of where you're at of kind of figuring out okay what do i want to do what are the steps that i need to really change and and oh yeah and she said the clear assessment too is what will give

you that because um all of these tools are really going to i think help give you more insight and more of a game plan um to have something that you're shooting for so hopefully those will help and then make sure that education matches the goals and figure out what is the right college choice that i can afford in cash and cash flow and uh that

house will pay itself off i mean you guys are so gazelle intense i'm not worried about that house getting paid off soon i want to make sure that you're living in your purpose doing something that you really love to do and that you're getting paid well yeah do it way to go man great job scott all right that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

i want to thank my co-host rachel cruz good times today rachel i want to thank our friends in the booth there james childs our producer kelly daniel our associate producer and phone screener and you america it's been a fun one we'll be back with you before you know it until then spend wisely save intentionally and give

generously this is the ramsay show

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did you know you can listen to the ramsay show on your smart speaker just tell alexa google assistant or siri to play the ramsay show podcast check out all ramsay network shows on your smart speaker today

you

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## 207. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 8, 2021)


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[Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice ken coleman is my co-host today

here on the ramsay show ramsay personality best-selling author and author of the brand new book that launches tomorrow from paycheck

to purpose the clear path to doing work you love now ken if a book launches tomorrow that means today is the last day to get all the bargains that's right and we've put out quite a bargain i mean first of all 20 bucks

is your entry point for this at

ramseysolutions.com and then we're gonna give you the ebook the audiobook read by me plus over a hundred dollars in other tools like our resume templates uh a video course that teaches you how to get hired how to beat the competition right now dave we have the biggest demand in employee talent we've ever seen and it is competitive and so that's a course that comes with that purchase all a part of that 100 plus of free items so we are certainly uh bribing but it's one of the greatest bribes of all time 55 of

americans are looking for a new job right now and if you want to stand out in that sea of talent passion and experience uh you have to be very very clear and

ken has the process to do that from paycheck to purpose one of the things some of you discovered during the uh aforementioned pandemic was that life's too short to spend your life doing things you suck at or you hate and or both and so people are leaving stuff where they're not ain't good at it they're leaving stuff where they hate their toxic environment they're sick of it

they want to move on they want to do something with meaning and from paycheck to purpose helps you do that in the title it tells you that so yeah that's the whole process by the way we we're giving you both we want you to have a fatter paycheck and and experience more purpose and yet dave in that ramsey it's not either or it's not either it's both

and it's not like i have to live my purpose but i'm gonna work at a non-profit for ten percent of what i could make somewhere else no that's just we'll grab that's exactly right and this idea that i can't make a really good living doing something that i care deeply about it's a process and we unveil that path interesting dave in the ramsey solutions work study the full study will come out

first of the year that 55 of americans looking for a new job right now that's one little piece of data from this study another piece is that 64 of those americans that are actually 64 percent are saying i want to

move but i'm not sure where to move and again this book provides the clarity that key word there clear path is this isn't just grab your machete and go we're going to point you on the right path and show you how to do it even if

by the way you're working through the baby steps i think a lot of people certainly in in the ramsey solutions tribe go okay i definitely want to work on purpose but i'm paying off debt well there are multiple maybe more money get a bigger shovel as a result of this and get out of debt faster so 20 for the book today's the last day that you get 100 worth of bonus tools like resume templates guides video courses all kinds of goodies included in the audiobook the e-book everything in there it's it's a deal today is the last day from paycheck to purpose by ken coleman number one best-selling author esmeralda is going to start off this hour in fresno hi esmerelda how are you hi guys i'm ready to get to talk to both of you better than i deserve what's up okay so i'm kind of like corruptional nurse and um i get paid pretty well for what i do just because of the environment that i work in and my goal is to become a school nurse which actually got the position and i should start soon but i'm definitely going to take a pay cut just because of the change of environment and this is something that i've been wanting to do for a very long time because i'm just stressed and overwhelmed and the environment is just not the best to work at but my question is whether this is a good move right now financially just because i will be taking a pay cut how big of a pay cut it's about fifteen thousand dollars a year what do you make now i make a hundred okay and you're going to cut to 85 and be a school nurse is that what you said yes but then in about two to three years i'll be back at 100.

okay well let's talk about what the next two to three years looks like before that so where does that put you are you single income double income um double income my husband makes about 120 so that's why he's not worried and he's like you need to go for this if this is something that you really want to do because we're we have about 40 000 in debt so he's willing to buckle

down and pay all that off that's awesome well have a 200 000 income between the two of you sure so this is not just more me and being scared of like hey you know i went to school and got my rn and i wanted to make 100 and i think it's just more me taking like the drawback of taking the pay cut yeah can i suggest to

you esmerelda it may not be just you part of this i wonder i wonder if you're worried about what other people might say or are already saying when you go from rn and this you know that's obviously a very prestigious role and moving into school nurse i wonder how much of that is coming from what you think other people might think or say

i think i don't think it's i think it's just me if i had a goal of making a certain amount and how i am and with over time here that the potential is limitless but also i'm concerned with my mental health and obviously a little bit of safety because it's getting a little out of control in here at times i would say well esmeralda you just laid out multiple reasons

you answered your own question as to why this is the right move all of those negatives are absolutely confirmation that you need to move but the biggest confirmation is that you've longed for this you said i've wanted to do this for a long time your husband is on board that's a fantastic position to be in financially this is not going to be that big of a hit you're still going to pay off that debt

and you're going to be happy and you're going to be fulfilled and i understand where you're coming from but you need to give yourself a break because you have in fact achieved that goal but what's great is you now realize that that goal doesn't match up with your heart and you got to follow your heart here esmeralda step into this this is a great move there's nothing wrong with

this move this is the right move what's the uh what's the worst case scenario you take the new job and you get over there and you hate it and 20 seconds later you can be an rn again in a hospital oh no yeah i can so you're not this is not a part this is not like uh you've burned all the boats and you can't go back home

you know so you you can do whatever you want to do go try it and if it doesn't work go back to being an rn in a less toxic environment someplace some other hospital some other situation would be an rn at the school i know but i'm saying go back into the medical world rather than the school nurse world and um if you don't like it if

you like

it you know it it this is a no

lose scenario because you you can

in the world that you live in you can get another job in 26 seconds if you decide you don't want to be a school nurse anymore after a year so do it absolutely go do it esmerelda yes that's exactly the way this works guys so what ken does every day on the ken coleman show if you want to talk careers we'll do that you wanna talk money we'll do that

the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five or we'll talk about your mama you're right in front of you if you want me to whatever you wanna talk about we're here it's that simple the book is from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love on the streets tomorrow last day today of the pre-sale at ramsey solutions.com with all

the goodies get it while the gettin's good

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[Music]

so

[Music]

welcome to the ramsay show common sense for your dollars and cents in a culture where common sense is so rare that if you have it it's like having a super power ken coleman and i are here to help you with your life your money your career the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five devin is

calling us from japan well there you go hi devin hi dave i'm looking for

short term housing for about two months out of the year when we come home come back to the states in the summer time my wife is a teacher and in the fun and i'm a retired military so in the summers when we come home we need a place to stay for about two months and we don't own property right now and with the way the market is right now is i don't see when that could actually happen

but should we buy a house or is there a good way to find i didn't think so and i was

really warm to that i've tried airbnb

but um airbnb just seems really overpriced to me so i'm looking are there any other alternatives to that um there's some corporate housing stuff out there in the hotel world uh where somebody's coming to town to work and they'll it's like a corporate suite thing it's not necessarily the best in the world but i would probably prefer an airbnb or a vacation setting of some kind um

and it just depends you know what i've done on uh not airbnb but on vacation housing is uh and i did it not long ago i negotiated with the owner i said listen i'm not going to be there for a week and i'm not going to be there for a weekend i'm going to be there for a month now you don't have to change anything out you don't have

the labor you don't have the turnover you don't have somebody tearing up your stuff this was a luxury property i'm going to be there a month i didn't stay the whole month but sharon did so uh i had to come back and work but anyway so we we rented the thing and it was in effect like an airbnb type thing there's a luxury uh uh vacation rental

and uh i just

negotiated with a guy now i got to tell you the first three people we went at said no we went full price and i said well you're not the one then and uh because guess what there's three more down the street and i'm going down the street down the street down the street until i find one and i think that's what you're looking for so you may have to get something that's not your

first choice but um i think you shop around in that world and you go at it with this is a two-month deal it's not a weekend rental

and you should get a different reaction if you put your shoes on the other feets what i was doing i was saying i mean put the put where are the other guys moccasins if i had a vacation rental up i would do a deal that way sure yeah because i'm getting some i don't have to screw with it right and somebody's not i don't have the wear

and tear of three bachelorette parties versus a stable family you know coming in and out of there which nothing will tear up a house like a frat or a bachelorette party they'll just tear up anything right so wild yeah

crazy it just depends here on his situation too where he's staying where they're coming in do they have any community where they come back to for a small amount of time and putting the word out too i wouldn't overlook the idea of like putting the word out saying hey here's our situation you know rates can be really high on these vacation homes yeah some local pastors if your mom

and dad are in a church in that market or your brother's in a church in that market tell them check with their pastor and say hey my you know my brother you know they he served his wife's a teacher and uh by the way thank you for your service yes absolutely and uh that's the best idea i got dude off top of my head uh that and

you can check some corporate housing uh those things are typically not as good a property as a good vacation rental a good one rick is with us rick is in houston texas hi rick welcome to the ramsey show

so i recently lost my job i was on a step 3d so i had 10 000 in my savings for my emergency fund and uh 17

in my separate savings i was saving up for a house fund if i need to start pulling from my savings before i'm able to land another job should i be pulling from the house fund and leave the emergency fund alone or should i be pulling from the emergency fund itself i don't think it matters because you could rename either one of them at the drop of a hat right well

i guess i didn't think of that yeah yeah it's just twenty seven thousand dollars we've got between us and problems and so um but i i probably philosophically would start with the house fund uh here's the thing though i

really don't want you to tap it at all when did you lose your job friday from what why

um there was a training incident

i was training a guy and there was a undercharge in one of the units and you know they terminated both of us okay all right what kind of work are you looking for uh i'm a process operator in the chemical field okay uh in your area of houston texas i'm assuming you've done a cursory check what kind of jobs are open is there a lot out there or is it a little bit tougher yeah typically they do the most hiring in the spring but there's a few here and there that'll hire at this time of year it's just uh you know well and they probably are short-handed right now right you probably got some people that are that normally would hire in the spring but they've got some empty seats yeah right what kind of money were you making um i was at a base salary at 95 000.

companies that said something to the fact of no experience no education no

background check required that was the headline and that's where companies are right now and we're talking about big time companies and so i just think that the market is so hot in the interim while you're applying and you're making the connections and getting interviews i mean dude you could be making somewhere between 15 and 20 an hour uh just to kind of keep things going i just wouldn't touch that account

i don't think you need to i think you're gonna start making some money by friday yeah and uh while you look for this job and i think you'll land a job in two weeks so i don't think you're going to end up touching it but you can make 15 20 an hour doing almost anything right now because there's such a hurt in the market yeah uh and

so and it may not be

what you want to do but rather mess up your house fund is what i want to do sit on my butt at home and mess up the house fund no i'll go i'll go do something else something unpleasant that i didn't really sign up for uh until this gets solved but i think you're going to land something if you'll uh get on this really really fast so ken um

the first thing he should do in his job hunt is what first thing i want him to do is look at what's open out there and then he immediately goes okay who do i know i'm looking at the connection because he's got experience and skill yeah okay and so he's immediately going all right company xyz abc are both

hiring a position i'm ready to go who do i know over there so i can fast track and get above the applicant system and what i mean by that is you know somebody rick and they say all right yeah man i'll put in a good word for you i work in building b the guy who's hiring is over in building a i'll walk your resume over and put a handwritten note on

it if they're not in their office and go hey i've known rick for 18 years that's the play here and then then you go through the applicant system but you want to have a good impression before you ever get into that and they go okay we're going to fast track an interview for rick that's what we're trying to do first get your foot in the door and

you got to know somebody to get in and get past the 30 000 resumes in a stack and the book he's referring to the concept he's referring to is the proximity principle it was the number one bestseller rick i'm going to send you that and i'm also going to give away my very first copy that i gave away

from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love so i'm gonna send you both of ken's books the new one will be a bestseller as well um and then i want you to also i'm gonna send those to you kelly's gonna pick up and give you the stuff uh but go to his website and download all of his free downloads on resumes on letter writing

on the things you do to get your foot in the door do not just go apply for 8 000 positions at monster.com and be surprised nobody called you back that's a that's a fool's errand right now and let me tell you why that advice that i gave is also so vital in this situation it doesn't sound like there's an ethical issue here but the fact of the matter is rick was terminated uh

and yet we still have a super hot market and people are okay with that if you own it don't try to do a politician spin on

this stuff if it comes up own it uh own

it with confidence humility i learned from this is a good thing i totally get it don't throw the old company under the bus here's how i can help you win i'm ready to go don't ever try to just kind of cover that stuff up but when i asked him he gave the perfect answer he gave a great emotion it was not throwing the other company on the bus

he was not a victim that's very clear very concise and that's the exact answer he ought to give up front in any initial interview so that no one catches later and goes well why don't you tell us about this now tell them right up front bust it bust that down and move on move on move on move on this

is the ramsey show

[Music] [Applause]

so [Music]

still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry it's

worth it

[Music]

so

the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage kyle and brenda are with

us hey guys how are you good how are you welcome where do you guys live delano minnesota just outside of minneapolis wow and all the way to nashville to do a debt free scream how much have you paid off 572 000. wow 383 dollars and 41 cents

wow how long did that take seven years in two months all right and your range of income during that seven years two months yeah i was about 110 to 200 and currently we're at about 140. okay cool what do y'all do for a living uh brenda's a stay-at-home mom and i am a reporting analyst for a large health insurance company cool well i'm guessing by the length of time and the huge amount of money you paid off your house

and we also own a third of a lake home too so one and a third houses i guess technically all right all debt free 100 death don't know a soul in the freaking world nope nope way to go guys look at

these weird people uh these are weird people right here man you guys are amazing congratulations what a seven year journey that's absolutely cool all right tell us the story how did you get on our stuff for seven years yeah when our second child was we knew they were on the way we put in our spreadsheet that was less than accurate and optimistic at best and the number was actually negative

so we knew that we had to do something we didn't have enough money to pay for daycare for our second child and so we naturally i think we went on facebook and then when the tea where one of the students ready the teacher will appear and someone posted something about it bought the total money makeover and i persuaded brenda to uh join in the joining the fun

so a lot

of persuading i'm glad he did okay so he reads this book and says uh uh we can't pay for daycare which you already knew yeah but this is uh what we're going to do is live on beans and rice rice and beans live like no one else so later we can live and give like no one else and you said i don't think so yeah well i

it took a lot of convincing to you know the slow steps of you want me to cut up my credit card you want me to do what what if something happens being a mom having all those insecurities and then we just went for it and we went crazy and everybody calls us crazy you are crazy you're wonderfully weird i love it wonderfully weird so what did he do that finally convinced

you brenda

what did you do i don't i don't know it was i think just staring down the the

just staring down that we had no other choice i don't know what else to do so i got to try this crazy right right and he's my partner and i trust him and so we just went for it okay and

then the more it worked the more you thought this is smart right right we got after it pretty quick i mean and i was able to quit my job and take care of our kids before our third was born we bought a brand new vehicle with cash and it did all that before we even started to attack attack the house in the morning so how fast did

you get out of the non-mortgage debt it was a little over two years like exactly what your numbers were are normal yeah and two years to do that seven years pay off the house yeah and the car she's talking about was a sweet minivan so she might have left that part out

a sweet minivan let's just go ahead and call it what it is sweet so brenda you said something a minute ago and i think this is this is really good i'd love for for for moms and wives to hear what you say about this when he first approached you about this you were like wait a second i got to cut up the credit cards what if something happens

implying that you saw those credit cards as a safety net and i understand that

and yet here you are now so what would you say uh which is a natural kind of that mother you know like hey you i got to take care i'm a mama bear on the other side of this what would you say to somebody who's listening and watching right now they feel the same way about this journey what i gotta cut up their credit cards that's our safety net what's the answer to that now go get the scissors

i don't know it just is it's just you um but can you have a safety net without credit cards is michael oh absolutely yes i've never even thought about getting a credit card you absolutely can so how did you approach that emotionally as you started to walk through that because you cut them up and then how did you address that safety issue that emotional need yeah that's a good question i just trusted the process and knew that it was there for me and it was there to catch me as long as i put my trust in there yeah that's good just for a while because here you are seven years later with a paid for house what's this house worth it's probably 250 yeah something like that we got we got real crazy we actually downsized our house yeah in order to be debt-free sooner you introduced us to the minimalist then we gave away all our stuff and then we realized we don't really need the big house that we're in before and opportunity came in that we were able to get my grandma's house and we downsized everybody thought we were nuts and two years later no here we are yeah a lot of people thought you were nuts but uh you're not you're you're on your way to being baby steps millionaires in no time i think so well done guys actually we already are yeah you already are yeah all right so how much in the 401k uh it's probably like six it's like 600 and then the house and cabins 400 something so it's plus our minivan is probably still worth 10.

love it well you did everything in order you did it right you submitted to the process and guess what the process worked yep so you're not only debt free house and everything baby step seven but your baby steps millionaires as well way to go i'm so proud of y'all what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is what we were saying about the budget

and how that's cliche so we we were going to pull up the minimalist card and just say like just keep an open mind and try to listen to what other people are doing and just keep learning and it once you get going it just snowballs and it's just rapid pace and next thing you know you look back and seven years later and you're done yeah

what about you brenda what do you tell people the key is um the key is definitely the budget but two i think like the deprogramming of what the world

has told us that we need to have be and how all of a sudden you look back you're like wait i don't need all this stuff i don't need this house i don't need these things i just need my life i love it wow hey we got to send this to joshua yeah they will love this joshua and ryan they will love this yeah that's really great

we had dinner with them last time they were here up at my house and hung out we had some great conversations until deep in the morning they're they're incredible guys so well done you guys i'm so proud of you very very very cool and you brought the kiddos with you to celebrate what are their names and ages drew is nine will is gonna be seven and reid turned five on sunday all right very cool

and if

they've been uh they've been plugged into what you're doing oh yeah they know that their lives are changed they do there's no payments in your world none ever again i love it way to go you guys very very

very cool well we've got a copy of the legacy journey for you because that's definitely the next chapter in your story as you continue this baby steps millionaire journey and i'll give you an extra copy of total money makeover to give away maybe you can start somebody off like you guys started off on that same book that sounds good and that's how you got here well done you guys very proud of you whoo i love it

man this is these people are weird they're awesome they're awesome all right kyle and brenda drew will and reed from the minneapolis area 572 000 paid off in seven years making

110 to 200 house and everything baby steps millionaires count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two

one

[Applause] yeah man oh man oh man

can when you have a clear path and the stuff she said we we i love the phrase uh submit to the process she said she said uh uh

deprogram program from the culture big

word because the culture's idiots that's right in almost everything that's right almost any area of life this culture has lost its mind so deprogrammed from that doing your own thought your own independent critical thinking uh my my good friend one of my

best friends is a pastor who says don't let the world teach you theology talk about deprogramming right and so you know where are you getting your truth from where are you what are you dialing in on are you believing all these broke people are they giving you advice about money because they talked about how many times somebody thought they were crazy but look at crazy look at crazy now baby crazy rich

love it this is so fun this is the ramsay show

[Music] so

[Applause] [Music]

i'm dave ramsey welcome to the ramsey show ken coleman number one best-selling author is my co-host his brand new book comes out tomorrow from paycheck to purpose the clear path

to doing work you love the baby steps are a clear path to becoming a baby steps millionaire paycheck to purpose outlines the clear path to doing work you love exactly step by step by step what you need to do if you want the goodies all the pre-sale items that go with it order it today and you get an extra hundred dollars worth of stuff that you won't get tomorrow all for the same twenty dollars not a bad deal our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they will remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey

to get the best deal today's question

comes from john in indianapolis i have a high stress job that pays 230 000 a year

in addition to dealing with aging parents teenagers in the pandemic the job is wearing me out and it's having a negative impact on my life i've been offered a new job where i'd take a 30 to 40 thousand dollar a year pay cut with the same company but the work is invigorating and entrepreneurial i'm having trouble justifying this pay decrease although i feel i'm going to be happier our only debt is our mortgage

college is funded my wife earns a great salary and we have a healthy savings account so why am i struggling with this decision i don't want to be one of those unhappy people saddle with a job they don't like yet they stay for the money well john then don't be one of those people you don't want to be one of those people so uh my mentor this guy to

the left of me he's got a great little tactic when he gives a speech and he's talking about money changing you go just aside just a little quick clap and i think john you don't want to be one of those unhappy people that stay just for the money let me help you a little bit you don't need the money a 30 to 40 000 pay cut right now uh for

you is going to take you just below 200 000 a year and your wife makes a great salary we don't even know that number so you guys may be in that 300 000 range you're above 250 this work is clearly having a tremendous impact on you all of the signs are there you need to give yourself permission to do the right thing and this is the right thing

i will also tell you that this new job being invigorating and entrepreneurial tells me two things that there's probably a path back up to the money you're making now if not going beyond that i don't have uh that information in front of me but this is the right move you don't need to feel bad about it you're not doing the wrong thing you know dave it reminds me

you know we heard our last the debt free screamer talk about deprogramming and this is an issue here where we are so programmed in our world to put significance and success completely in the financial bucket and yet that's just simply not the case and it makes people like john feel like if i take a strategic cut

that i can absolutely absorb that somehow i'm doing the wrong thing or it's a dumb thing or a not smart thing and i think that's real but in this case john this is the right move all the way around i don't think it's dumb and i agree with ken i would take it however i think you need to keep in mind

that the aging parents and the teenagers

are still going to be there

so where's your stress really coming from what's really going on i mean if you've got some family stuff that's out of balance and you need to set some boundaries have you got some tough decisions you've been unwilling to make with either one of those other two subjects that are putting that are the real cause of the stress make real sure you're treating the right problem not the symptom

and uh the second thing is this again i'll agree with ken take the job john however i do not agree with the supposition that the only way you find happiness is to move down an income that you can't find something that's invigorating what was the phrase he used an entrepreneurial that pays 300 000 a year why is it we always think to be happy we have to make less money what is

this stupid thing that's floating around in this culture that says that by the way if you do something you love you're better at it and you should make more money ultimately yeah i mean but this idea that you have to have poverty associated with happiness or less money associated with happiness is absurd so i would choose a third option as a consideration

and that is where can i find something invigorating entrepreneurial that pays 300.

oh why is it we have to go down all the time i don't understand this so anyway it's okay if you do and i'm going with ken's recommendation but i'm going to challenge you on those two points make sure you got the parents and the teenager thing working because dude that's still going to be there yep and you got to be careful what you think the stress is

so you know the first time that happened to me is when i filed bankruptcy the bankruptcy attorney um didn't do a lot of things right but he said one really wise thing he said uh because you're you're under this tremendous weight of debt which feels like he feels right you got this overwhelming anxiety over the top of you and where you're like something's standing on your chest

i can't breathe and then the day you file bankruptcy that that's just poof you know most of it anyway is gone right and you got some more stress points but by and large i've been fighting it for two and a half years i was ready to sit down the rock baby okay but that guy looks at me and he goes you know what filing bankruptcy does not create an income yeah mic drop yeah that's right it's really good

you know it's like you know you're not going to prosper because you filed bankruptcy you've still got to go out there to kill it and drag it home whatever it is you still got to find a way to eat and of course i responded i got this figured out but but i mean it's still i can remember that 30 years ago i remember that conversation right now

and so that's what i always think you know be careful what you wish for because it might may not be touching what you're talking about you're still the common denominator you're still going to be in the next marriage you're still going to be in the next job your parents and your teens are still going to be there after you make this move you're the common denominator follows

you everywhere i'm glad you brought that up because he could take this move and it could be on paper all the things that he says it is but if the personal life is burning

the job doesn't solve that right it will help right in some ways you've got some purpose as you move into the office but if it's 70 job stress and 30 family it'll help it'll help if it's the other way around it's not going to make a difference you're just going to make less money exactly right and i think that was a really great call out here and

i would also agree with you in this situation if that's the only thing that you've got but it's rarely the only thing and this is situation well i've got an opportunity here and it's going to be better in all these ways and it's less money and i think you're right you got to consider the whole field the whole universe of jobs samantha's in charlotte north carolina hi samantha welcome to

the ramsey show

hi dave hi ken it's an honor to speak with you both you too how can we help um well my husband and i have well we're on baby step seven we have five different retirement accounts between us both i'm wanting to open a sep ira uh with our

business to reduce our taxable income but my question is is there a maximum number of retirement accounts a couple can have without being penalized somehow

no there's not a maximum you can do you can do whatever you need to do if you have too much money sitting in an old 401k or old ira it could affect your

roth contributions but that's all um and so but those are old but in terms of can you do it you can do a sep ira

you could do a sep roth ira instead

you can do a roth ira at the same time

and your husband can do his 401k over at work now the sep is any employees have been with you more than three of the last five years

are also going to get the same percentage of their income that you put in the percentage of your income into it so do you have employees been with you a while we do not okay so you can put in up to about 13.6 is what the calculation is going to end up being 13.6 of your uh

profit on that business your taxable income on that business can go into that sep and you can make it a a roth sep is what i would do and get with one of our smart vester pros at ramsey solutions.com and get signed up for that and uh um you know they can help you walk through the process but you know there's a lot of different kinds of accounts

you can have 401ks you could have uh you could have a 401k at your work he could have a 403 b at his work um you could have seps you can have uh ir individual iras at the same time uh

as you've got all these others that there's you know there's a couple of them there's one or two of them that overlap now now and each of them have an in each of them have a contribution limit that you can do but uh but the number of accounts no

by and large there's very little if any limitation on that so good question ken coleman ramsey personality my co-host today here on the air this is the ramsey show [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host thank you for jumping in the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today today is the last day to order his new

book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love for twenty dollars and get a hundred dollars worth of pre-sale items thrown in all kinds of goodies there you can get the video course guides templates resume

templates you can get the audio book and the e-book all included the pre-order

ends tonight because the book goes on sale in bookstores and around america all day starting tomorrow and all of you that have pre-ordered the book they will all ship uh this week to you so you're going to be getting them as soon as possible uh we've been able to uh work through the uh uh pandemic paper shortage and got the book got the books out no question got them out into uh into target and into barnes and noble and into that fine french store and um

uh all those places right and all the places great books are sold and uh of course amazon has them and of course ramsey solutions has them if you want to do the pre-order and get all the deal go to ramseysolutions.com today today's your last day gary's with us gary is in kansas city hi gary how are you hi dave team ramsey uh honor to speak with you

you too i wanted to uh just go over what's in my life in my brother's lives a little bit of a complex uh question question we need answered regarding uh my mom who died a couple of months ago and uh some of the far out from that oh thanks what happened what did she pass away from um

i think officially it was covet however there was more to it she was she had a lot on her mind she was dealing with my dad who had dementia she was uh lived a life of service and entertaining for us and just provided her life that she was very joyful person and a lot of friends a lot of uh a lot of great relationships she established and

we uh we were just blessed for a couple of show weeks ago you mentioned uh what we inherit from our parents you know a big cash nest egg and all maybe that's not so good but instead is better a

a work ethic and i think we got that from my parents god god bless them you know anyway we miss him please her fiercely and uh so it's it's part of it's so that's joy but there's a sad part that we're trying to work through she was scammed the last two years of her life pretty pretty and she bought into bought into it pretty pretty deeply um

and we were sort of tracking it but not real uh not as close as we should have this as i'm remote from her i have some some mega million scam or something uh got it got into her head and uh she was very uh concerned about you know providing some kind of uh inheritance for her for us is your dad still is your dad's still alive he is

and and yes he he's with us and

my middle brother is really stepped up and he's he's doing dad basically taking the place of what my mom was doing so did she lose all of their assets

in a word yes okay she has sold a house about a year and a half ago all the proceeds spent and

there's nothing left but debt the debt is the debt is not that so the debt is like kind of small but it's so

where we're going with this question is the ethics of it so she had in this scam the the scammers had convinced her to buy three iphone 12s and and and they would reimburse her in all this and it was somehow how she was going to pay the taxes as well that's where a lot of the money apparently went then he had a she uh so she bought

these three iphone twelve they're a thousand bucks a piece and uh a big cell company or a big um one of the big ones um now has this bill out she wasn't getting

the installments of funding that were said to be coming from the scammers of course so at the point where she was seeing she bought these phones and then of course shipped them off all at her expense with the cell phone provider companies whatever they uh

they they got free two free phones she kept one of them and now she wasn't gonna pay the financing find it you know your finances these things and then she was i guess kind of so she didn't pay the three thousand dollars off we still have this three thousand dollar bill and there's nothing to be redeemed as far as her credit because her credit shot she had a great credit she did great things with her money for her life when you pass away gary what you own stands good for what you owe

and so she has a 3 000 debt does she own your dad and her own anything he's got a car um there's there's little penny any stuff that is around a car

the uh i mean there was some some little some hard assets that were were uh able to uh liquidate an event that wasn't even to be done but we weren't really uh

uh they come after her estate that i guess that's all they can do they can come after her estate and if you guys sold an antique dresser for ten thousand dollars and kept that money instead of paying this bill then they would have recourse against you guys okay so yeah she uh saddled us with this it sounds like yeah what you own stands good for what you owe

when you pass away but your kids do not inherit debt but your kids will not get an inheritance until the debt is paid out of the things that they owned your mom and dad owned where is your dad living he's in a a memory care facility [Music] so he's got a checking account with three thousand dollars in it yes there's that yeah we've got a little bit of uh my brothers

and i are all if this is the only debt that there is you're gonna have to pay that debt in order to clear the rest of the assets even though they're penny annie it's not ethics it's the law yeah okay and they that you know they're probably for three thousand dollars not gonna chase you guys down and you know put you in a headlock and and you know try to get

the three 3000 bucks out of you if it's a practical matter but that's technically the way this works and so morally the way this works understood yeah you're gonna you're gonna have the unhappy experience of completing the scam right goodness um okay and how prevalent is this is this a very proud i need to do i need to get as i retire from my military should i go into detective work in cyber

and in regards to trying to protect elders from their yeah the only problem is the people that will be paying you are broke because they've been scammed uh but yeah it's pretty prevalent that's a pretty standard the iphone scam you know that whole thing that's fairly normal we hear it sadly more often than we should and um yeah it's it's it's pretty prevalent but i don't know whether

you can make an income doing it or not that's a whole nother discussion this is the ramsay show [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personalities my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five

two two five so if you suspect that a loved one is being scammed

suggested steps i think you have to have a sit down with them and say hey i think something's fishy here can we dig into this and try not to put them on the defensive but ask some questions dig in uh do a little bit of uh your own version of a private investigator and uh dive into it and then show them hey this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense

and many times they just need somebody else to kind of look at it and go hey this doesn't seem right and i think that's the first thing i do and if it's not right i'd say hey this is a bad idea we're going to get you out of this let me help you know because i think there's a certain amount of embarrassment there oh always think about that

you know so go in i go in a little easy i'm trying to put myself in the shoes of talking to my father you know if he were to have that situation and i'm going to have to come in there and not embarrass him not make him feel like he was totally duped make the bad guy the bad guy not them the bad guy that would be my approach that's exactly right that's exactly how

you do it and it's really not hard to research these scams that's correct well a simple google search will pop up in front of you and uh you know mega millions scam spanish letter scam nigerian letter scam there's several versions out there and uh um the people get sucked into all kinds of different things and just if you just if you have enough information you know where there's cell phone

and mega millions both mentioned all you do is type that in boom it'll pop up show you exactly what they're doing how they're working it yeah what's going on and then

you just can send that link and go listen this is what's happening to you yeah yeah let's get you out of there and so um you know you didn't do anything wrong no uh you were just trying to leave an inheritance what a horrible motivation but uh the number of times i've seen people in the name of leaving an inheritance to their children get into stuff they should not get into is over 30 years of doing

this it's all the time oh i'm sure bad financial products scam real straight up scams like that lady got scammed um but all in the name of i want to leave the kids something which is a misguided thing to start with the most important thing you can leave them is to not do that kind of stuff well you know i just i've learned this you know if it's too good to be true it's almost always yeah

if it smells fishy there's fish involved

i mean come on you know if you think if you i got a bad feeling you know why you got this this just felt weird you know why it felt weird because it was weird oh yeah that's why i felt weird yeah and trust yourself you know yeah i'm glad you said that so you know i'm a big nerd and i read a lot i was reading a book i'm reading a book right now by a physicist

and you know you talk about you it's legendary you talk about sharon dave's wife sharon she's she's got incredible great great great common sense you always talk about that feeling you say it the way that i can't say it but you can say it there it is and but you know there's actually the physicists have done research on this real quick they had they put heart monitors on world-class grand master chess players to find out

if that gut feeling is that a gut feeling or is it actually tied to the same mechanism that we kind of say well i logically thought through this decision long story short this grand master chess player's heart rate spiked every time in the match before they made an incorrect move and the the so the the

conclusion was that gut feeling

that's actually your brain sending a physical response to your body and your heart is warning you don't do it don't do it and so i just wanted to point out that when you have a bad feeling don't put that off as a gut thing as some mysterious thing that's your brain and your body combining to go stop

yeah but i had a weird feeling about him you know that's because he's weird right you know that's just you know that's the thing it's just trust yourself yeah and um you know because you know that about 20 times while that lady was sending off that money of those cell phones and selling her house to do this that she had those things you know she had an inkling that

this was wrong and so the way you can step in is to tap into that and say you got to trust yourself because yourself is telling yourself this is not this bad deal this is a bad thing trust yourself and i used to say trust your gut instinct and my friend who's a pastor said that's not your gut that's the holy spirit don't call the holy spirit your gut trust god's spirit that's in

you which will speak to you and say don't do it yeah yeah that's it yeah and your body is sounding more like a demon than it did it kind of did but hey that's kind of what we have to get rid of sometimes right alex is with us in minneapolis hi alex how are you hi i'm doing good how are you today better than i deserve how can

we help

hey so my husband and i are both about 30 respectively we make about 200k

together uh we have a little baby just one kid we have no debt we are investing in full we tithe in full etc um we also have our six month

emergency fund saved up and we have a little bit of extra money look i'm saved we've got about 40 grand on top of our six month emergency fund that we're not really sure what to do with um we were thinking about putting it into our house to pay against the principal yeah the only time to be in the house for another three years or so it doesn't matter pay it off anyway pay it off anyway as fast as you can

okay we can do that yeah you should be putting no more than you should be putting no more than 15 of your income

currently into retirement and you should be saving for your kids college and every dollar that you have beyond that after having a reasonable life because you're at a good stage of this goes towards the house that's what we call baby steps four five and six

now when the house is paid off then i would go back and i would max out retirement but until then i want this

house paid off because we've discovered in our study of millionaires the largest study of millionaires ever done in north america that the typical millionaire the first million to two million dollars worth of net worth that they gain is from a paid for house and a funded retirement okay not one or the other it's both

that makes sense we thought that wasn't the answer we're just nervous about it it's okay it's okay here's the thing you're not gonna lose the money by paying the house mortgage down because if you do sell the house within three years which you're anticipating they're gonna write you a check at closing all that money comes back out yes so do you i mean it sounds like you recommend that over we're planning to move

and we know where we want to go next by buying a piece of property so you recommend paying the house instead of putting money on the property right away yep yeah okay because the two things i run into are not a paid four third piece of property in the millionaire study i run into paid for houses and fully funded retirement plans that's what we run into all

the time that's where the data leads me and so i think i'm going that direction every time there every time so good question dave what's the emotion there because she's they're they're amazing what an unbelievable job so they're such a good job yes what's the emotion there where's that come from on that what's behind that this is a person who's very smart with their money should i put that 40 000 into

the house when i'm moving in three years what what's what's causing that to think oh we don't know if that's smart is what she feels it feels like it's trapped it's like the money's trapped okay can't do anything with it it's in now in the house okay and that is that makes sense by the way that's also a good thing right because you don't accidentally buy a bass boat with

it you know um oops there's that boat in the driveway it is true yeah and so when you trap it in there but it does feel like oh i can't get it back out i can't get to it that's good um and that's why you know someone who's that smart i still remind them even though i know they know this that they're gonna get their money back out of

the house when they sell it because you need to emotionally feel that oh it's not really gone i'm just storing it there that's good storing it as opposed to being stuck it's not stuck it's stored yeah and it's it's it's got a lock on it that's key on it but it's stored open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five today is the

last day to order ken's brand new book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love and you can order it today and get for twenty dollars and get a hundred dollars worth of extras including resume templates video courses guides resume guides and the audio and the

ebook all included if you order today if you order tomorrow for 20 you will get the book today you got all the other stuff yeah move on it tomorrow's launch day so get on it while you can ride at ramseysolutions.com

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today on the debt-free stage in

the lobby of ramsey solutions tyler and

melissa are with us hey guys how are you doing good hey dave welcome where do you guys live so we live in a small town called trenton it's near cincinnati ohio it's about 12 000 people in it okay cool well welcome to nashville good to have you and all the way here to do a debt-free scream how much did you pay off so we paid off 49 992 dollars love

it how long did that take it took two and a half years okay and your range of income during that time about 60 to 70 000 although at one

point it was about 40 when i had a back injury and was out of work what do y'all do for a living so i'm a sewer pipe inspector at a company called televac environmental and i'm a wedding photographer and a stay-at-home mom oh fun good for you guys so what kind of debt was this fifty thousand dollars mainly my stolen my student loans and then car um medical bills credit card debt just

the whole nine yards pretty much so how long y'all been married a little over four years okay so two and a half years ago something happened and you start this ramsey journey stuff what'd you do what happened so what happened was our church the little church in hamilton ohio they ended up hosting a financial peace university class and that changed it all so i i just want to give praise to

the the people the leaders for that mike and liz knutson like really changed their lives wow very cool so you you go in there and they're they're announcing it on sunday morning that there's going to be a class and you decide to take it yes yep we knew there was we knew the way we were handling our money wasn't the greatest and we just knew it could benefit our family

and we had a lot of weight from like medical bills when we our daughter was born just a little bit before that so kind of that pressure i kind of like pushed us into it yeah okay cool yeah

there's something about having that first kid and then there's some bills laying around you're like i gotta get this mess clean now yes yeah kind of a wake-up call huh mm-hmm yeah way to go proud of you guys great job very very cool okay so what did you do to get out of debt tell people what the key to getting out of debt is so there i mean there's a lot of keys for us a couple of them was like vision

you know we had to have a road map kind of figure out where no what's coming in what's going on communal care right we had support from

community family friends co-workers that would kind of talk to me along the journey our my parents let us live live in their basement for a little bit her uncle ended up gifting us a car wow you know so and my parents ended up gifting us a car as well wow but a really big one especially for marriages i would say is forgiveness like because you can you could use

the the budget as a weapon if you wanted to and we do you know anybody that might do that i've definitely done it a few times so yeah

so uh so melissa you had to go uh-uh no weapon we're working together um it definitely took a little bit to actually get on train and stuff but because i love hobby lobby taser max target you know there's that okay so a weapon to control melissa's spending okay all right okay that works too it works for me i'll go with it hey the good news is you got on

the same page and started working it together and uh so what was the hardest part of this whole process for y'all the hardest part of the process i guess was like the consistent grind but the the truly hardest was like when i was out of work so we're i ended up getting a back injury we're about almost a year into it and i was out of work for about eight months whoa yes uh bad back injury um

my discs were herniated and that some my mild grades spinal stenosis and that wow

and during that time she kind of really helped us out with you know more wedding taking on more weddings as a photographer than that but i went through kind of a depression and that and ended up you know adding some more debt you know through that process and that and but god so preserved our lives and you know eight months after that we kept kept going on

this whole track and then ended up two and a half years boom we paid it all off wow so i wanted to ask you guys about going into that class financial peace university i'm just curious

you know it's it's it's like we all revert to being childlike in our lives even as adults you know you remember that first day of kindergarten you know first day of junior high it's scary you're walking in i'm curious what was it like even though it was your church is that right what was it like to walk into that class environment this is a brand new thing uh for

you melissa obviously you're kind of like i don't know i'm curious what was the dynamic like as you went in week in week out like definitely it was like nervous at first like i didn't know what to expect um but definitely i think just like the workbook and going through that with our class and like just the slides i just remember like us having conversations i think like weekly just talking about

it and like how it could help our family and all that stuff so i just it was definitely

mind-boggling definitely took a lot to take in but it definitely was worth it what was the part about other people in the class that maybe brought you into some comfort level or hey we're not the only ones talk about that i mean there's definitely other families in there um

people who like even were childless but it was just nice seeing other people that were like us going through the same things people who had credit cards that needed to be done with that and all that stuff so it was just really nice to know that we weren't we weren't alone yeah it makes you feel not so weird that you're not the only person on the planet that messed up with exactly yeah

it kind of normalizes that normal's broke yeah i just don't be normal anymore yeah yeah well way to go guys it sounds like you had quite a long journey there the grind and the the setback and then coming back after the setback and well done very well done very proud of you guys david i want to ask melissa real quick so wedding photographer and i'm looking at

the two and a half year timeline here your wedding's during covet yeah how did you keep that going um kind of stressful but a lot of my couples i'm very thankful for them they didn't actually reschedule for the following year they kept their day either had a smaller wedding or just postponed to like another date and i was available so it was just nice being able to keep my couples

and yeah it was definitely challenging especially it's just yeah covered good for you that's awesome wow very tough

and you brought your daughter with you what is her name and age her name is leilani um she is three and a half years old all right and this is our why this is why we did all this just to change that so hi leilani girl i love it unicorn squad yeah it's a good squad to be on i've heard i've heard i was unaware that it was a squad i got to do some research dave you need to catch up on these things

all right way to go guys very proud of you we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story to be baby steps millionaires you're on your way way to go and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and get someone else started on their journey maybe one of those young couples you're shooting their wedding

you never know you never know very good stuff all right tyler melissa and leilani from the cincinnati area trenton thousand dollars paid off in two and a half years making sixty to seventy count it down let's hear a debt free screen ready ronnie ready lonnie three two one

words are free

i love it

man that's so fun it never gets old it never gets old financial peace university class taught ramsey plus taught in a in a local church somebody jumps in at just the time that they need it perfect timing and uh and

boom here we set things are going the way they are supposed to go very very well done that's a great testimony too folks if you're considering going i don't know anybody there i don't even go to church there trust me they're going to welcome you the people that are the coordinators are some of the finest people i've ever had the privilege to meet in my life and

then you just heard they're going to be other people and they have the same stuff you have there's no shame it's everywhere just go those people aren't good with money join a community most people aren't you he said the communal party that's right the family helped them they were in a group that's a big part of the process it really is very very well done you guys proud of

you this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the ramsey show open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five kansas city's on the line michael is with us hey michael how are you hey dave great to talk to you sure you too how can we help i'm calling uh my mother passed away september of 20.

we are at the end she didn't have a will we're at the end of the probate process and we're trying to figure out what we should do with the house she owes about 90 thousand dollars

there's some foundation damage i'm not sure if we sold it as is it would even be worth what she owes my brother uh me and my brother for the uh the heirs um i tried to get him to uh see if he could get a loan to uh take over the loan because he wants to stay there but he's a convicted felon that's never really thought of working other than buying

and selling used cars so he only makes about twelve thousand dollars a year how's he gonna pay a thousand dollar a month payment well he got uh quite a bit of money from life insurance and things like that but if he doesn't work you know that's gonna run out obviously exactly so he you know i was like well maybe you know we can both go in on

it but i don't really want to be involved uh especially with him right now um so here's the thing

if the house is worth 90 000 and there's 90 000 odd on it it's not worth anything to you you could just let him take it

was um as the mortgage goes do we need to you're not on the mortgage are you you didn't sign the mortgage did you no here's my mom's mortgage do you have any idea what kind of mortgage it is fannie mae fha va it's a uh just a fha okay then your

brother can take over the payments without uh having refinanced it

oh we can yeah okay yeah that fha will not foreclose on an estate they'll let him just pay the payments as long as he keeps them current obviously if he didn't win he quits keeping them current they'll take the house but yeah he's been paying the payments since he passed okay he's living there taking care of her okay um i just wanted to have it then let him just tell him to pay

the payment don't miss a payment though no well i thought maybe if we put a little money into it we could probably sell it for twice what what she's owed on it and then make a little money on it okay that's a different scenario than what you laid out you said the house was worth what was owed on it yeah if we didn't do any repairs yeah yeah

and how much insurance money did you and your brother get uh we ended up getting about 80 000 a piece okay and how much in repairs would you do and then what would the house be worth if you did those repairs i think if we put 20 into it we could probably sell it for 160 to 180

in this market

what do you make a year i'm like 80 and i'm you know married with kids and

okay and i got my own mortgage and a second mortgage to help my kids go to college but uh but you got 80 thousand dollars in the bank yeah so do you because here's the thing your brother would like to stay there if you guys both put in 10 each of your insurance money you know you're going to get that 10 back and another 30 or another 20 or something right each right

after all the smoke clears and go through all this trouble and everything well he would actually get a little more because he's been paying the mortgage yeah okay um i'm gonna give you some

weird advice okay you're signing up for a bunch of hassle

your brother's had a mess of a life and needs a leg up i'm going to take my 80

000 and let him have the house and walk away that's a gift to your brother a little bit but it's also a gift to yourself

and lack of hassle lack of problems lack of whatever he was there he took care of your mom yes he's paid the payments yes all that but uh this will give him a good hard fresh start if he wants to put 20 of his 80 into it and flip it he can make a little money i don't think he's going to do that um and i think

you can just walk away from the hassle and the problems that you're getting ready to sign up for and do your do your brother a favor do something nice for him in the process i think this is a win-win to walk away what do you think right i agree that's a great idea how much debt do you have

i have uh 20 000 on a second mortgage to

help my kids go to college yeah so i have a mortgage yeah so i

agree with delta a second bank some of it for the rest of college that's right and you got a clean clear life out of this you guys have gone through the grieving of losing your mom together um

and i i i want it to be a clear conversation with him that i'm giving him a gift that might be worth as much as twenty thousand bucks

and and that uh that thought process has come up in our discussions but uh so i would just really want to get some advice so i appreciate it yeah i think this is a good time for generosity on your part yeah that's going to benefit everyone it's just a thought yep i couldn't agree more dave i think this is a nice move it takes the kind of takes

it off of his takes it off of his shoulders it's done i've gifted my brother i've given him an opportunity and thus doing so i'm not going to get any more money but i got 80 from mom i'm debt free except the house

it with a stroke of one check uh and still somebody got some money left

yeah and we're not tied up in some kind of real estate flip this house crap on cable tv because you know more about this than i do but it's never as simple as well it's just 20.

hey how can we help sure hi okay so my question is my question is basically and don't get mad at me dave but i think i want to lease a car

and i know you're not supposed to lease a car supposed to buy a used one in cash

but i think i can afford to lease a car and i think it's the better move for me like i'm curious what you have to say on that well you kind of know what i'm gonna say obviously don't you

yeah but maybe um well daniel i think this is where you lay out your case for dave you know what he's gonna say so why do you think it's a better deal than buying a used car okay good idea right so why i think is because

i could let's say by uh try to find a reliable used car for like a 10 or 15 000 but i personally wouldn't feel comfortable driving that around in terms of reliability because for work i'm driving sometimes two hours in the middle of nowhere i just don't want to you know risk anything i want to have a new car and 10 years from now i don't want to be driving a 10 year old car

okay so that's that's why for me that's why i think and uh i don't have in your how old i'm 23. and your house your income is what i make uh 120. okay good for you how

many miles you putting on that car

i would probably keep within the ten thousand miles a year not if you're driving a day that's where i had a problem with your math are you driving four miles an hour no but it's not it's not every day i work for myself so i'm more i'm not working every day dude you're in prison with those lease miles but so wait a minute you can't have it both ways okay

you can't have it i drive two and a half miles a day i drive two and a half hours every day so i need a reliable car but wait a minute no i don't drive two and a half hours a day i only drive ten thousand miles a year so i don't need a reliable car

occasionally i drive two and a half hours yeah frequently okay well not frequently

over 10 000 miles the occasional frequency it doesn't add up you can't daniel you can't have it both ways the math doesn't work in your discussion okay so here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing broke people drive new cars

there's two people that drive brand new cars mega millionaires and broke people these are the only two people the vast majority of new cars are broke people because they go down in value like a rock you're either going to put the miles on this fleece car you're going to blow the lease up or you're not going to put the miles on it and it's going to eat

you alive you can do what you want to do you call me there's no possible way i'm going to tell a 23 year old is smart enough to make 120 000 to go fleece a stupid car

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit dot com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality host of the king coleman show is my co-host today

tomorrow is book launch day for ken his brand new book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to to doing work you love uh is in bookstores available tomorrow be shipped tomorrow to those of you that have pre-purchased it speaking of which if you pre-order by midnight tonight you will spend 20 for the book and get a hundred dollars plus worth of goodies uh added in included in

the process and uh man pretty incredible you're gonna get resume templates guides a video course the audio book the ebook

all of it included uh all for just purchasing the 20 book why because pre-orders matter towards the best seller list and we bribe you into pre-ordering because you're going to get the book anyway you might as well get all the goodies so go ahead and order it right now at ramseysolutions.com while you have the chance last day to do that tomorrow is launch day uh lots of media

and stuff happening this week for you you're gonna be really busy yeah we're excited we're getting the word out and uh it's uh it's we would have never known that the scenario that we sit in now this great resignation people considering moving coming out of the pandemic moving more than they've ever moved before in their work because they know that there's more there they want a bigger paycheck

but they also want to do work that has more values attached to it so it's very exciting time to see what's going to happen as the world shifts certainly the american workforce is shifting tremendously and so we're excited about it going to be talking about it anywhere we can possibly talk about it yeah so if you're one of those 55 or so thinking about changing jobs listen

you don't want to just change jobs you don't want to go from the frying pan of the fire more money and i hate my job in a toxic environment yeah you need to be careful what you wish for right and so from paycheck to purpose making as much or more money than you make now and get meaning yeah this is the goal you don't have to take a 50 pay cut to be a happy camper yeah matter of fact that's not going to make

you a happy camper money doesn't make you happy that's not the point but the point is you need to get after this so hey paycheck to purpose at ramseysolutions.com

get it while you can today with all the goodies attached daniel's going to start off this hour in knoxville hi daniel how are you hi dave hi ken thanks for taking my call i'm doing well great how can we help um so i have a baby step four question for y'all

um so in order to maintain that 25 ratio

across fund categories in my ira

i feel like i'm only ever thinking money into the international fund the basis in that fund is is much higher than the others and it's growing right so every time i deposit money it's always into that international fund because it's formed not as well as the rest is that still the correct way to invest or am i interpreting y'all's advice incorrectly

way to go you're really paying attention the international category of the four categories sucks i mean it's bad it's ugly and so you notice that that's a good thing and what you're trying to do is rebalance your portfolio with your monthly contributions that's right i would i would not do that

i'm fine if a category's sucking if it gets a little bit out of balance because i'm going to end up with less in a sucky category

okay until it comes roaring back and then when it comes rolling back i got so pissed off about this international category underperforming because i've given the same information the same and i personally invest that way my personal 401k is like we're talking about it's 25 into each category period and i have i don't go back and rebalance some people go back and rebalance every year or two and if you want to that's fine it's not the end of the world but you're not going to usually see a huge change on

uh your results if you do now what i did

do daniel just as a side note because you noticed something that a lot of people haven't really brought up is that i i considered maybe we need to change our advice because that category's so bad maybe we just need to go third third third and drop the international because for it's like a 20-year run of suck i mean it's

it's bad and so what i did though i went back with my elp or my smart master pro and i

had him run a whole bunch of scenarios and i told him what i was thinking about i said not only am i thinking about changing mind i'm thinking about changing because i'm not going to change mine and not tell y'all okay i think the market's moved i think this international category is bad i was ready to go there and we ran the scenarios out 14 different ways and they found all kinds of anomalies and all

kinds of things in the marketplace because i always look back 30 40 years i don't look back just three years or even 15 years right i want to look back i want to see how this market moves how it reacts and they said okay over 40 years here's what it would look like if you had the international in your mix at 25 going in

no rebalancing uh back to your original

question and here's what it would look like if you didn't have the international and even though the international sucked it has offset the other times that the domestic market is turned down it's shot up because it runs inverse of the other markets usually uh enough times that i

actually end up with more money with the sucky category in there which is weird so i left it i left it in my portfolio and i did not change my recommendations after running out actual hypotheticals they're called in that world and running it out that way but yeah you i would not recommend to do what you're doing uh it's not the end of the world if you do

but i think you're working too hard to get a lame horse to run and so uh throwing that extra money on that international so i just put 25 on everything and if you want to rebalance or move some around a little bit every if it gets way out of whack that'd be fine but uh i think over a long period of time the thing will probably pretty naturally rebalance or get close to

it a

long period being 20 30 years not two years so that that's the thing i have never done what you're doing i've always done 25 each period a fourth each i've not

done it not rebalanced with the contribution rate in order to get it to catch up um if you do that you're probably going to be okay but i think you'll make more money the way i'm talking about than the way you're doing it just tonight i think mathematically that's the way it's going to work if if when you say to him okay if you do that it's fine

i don't think you're going to win and you explain why but if someone was going to do that what would that allocation look like instead of 25 well what he's doing is he's putting more than 25 into the international because it's dipping to try to gas try to catch it try to have it catch up get the balance to catch up because he's trying to get his balances to be 25 each

so it just depends on how long you've been doing it and how far in the hole that account is i mean you could put 90 percent into the international and for catch up if you had to you know got it but i i again i'm not going that route

um i'm just going to keep plugging along here here's the interesting thing the fact that you're looking at this and you're paying attention you're using good critical thinking skills and you're constantly investing and you're constantly investing and you're constantly investing that's what we found in all the data that causes people to win more than the technicalities the technicalities don't end up mattering as much as paying attention and continuing paying attention and continuing that's what we found with all the data on the millionaires

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ken coleman

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open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today aaron is

with us in charlotte north carolina hi erin welcome

to the ramsay show hi david ken how are y'all today great how can we help yeah so my question is i i

i could apply for a position within my company that i'm working at now but i'm not sure if that's the best idea for me and i'm hoping that y'all could as unbiased could help me determine that give you a little bit of background i've been at this company for almost five years and i was promised growth opportunities whenever i was hired unfortunately that seemed to be uh has seemed to be a lie

the growth track that i thought i was on uh doesn't appear to be a viable track for a growing so i was wondering what i can and you might say about that okay so in your honest opinion have you been able to do everything that you feel like you could do to be the best that you can be in the contribution you've made over that five years

and you still feel like no track for growth no opportunities have come your way uh yes and no there's definitely the

potential where i could apply for this new position and it would be the growth opportunity that i would want however i'm being told that uh that the work

that i've been doing over the last several years do not qualify me for this position as i was originally led to believe well whether you were led to believe that or not the reality is they're telling you that the work you're doing now hasn't qualified you for this other position so it doesn't seem like that's an absolute possibility so i think going after something like that where they've told

you your leadership has told you you're not qualified it's like me trying to go outside and dunk a basketball tonight on a 10-foot rim it's just not going to happen and so i it feels like to me we've got to start short by the way and can't jump i've got the double hurdle there so i i understand the want to

but the there's the leadership has said you're not qualified for it and i think you're setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment that's unnecessary when i think it might be time for you to look elsewhere and i think really it's about getting clear aaron let me ask you this okay so if i understand you right you're coming in you came into this job and you were told

if you do x y and z that you'll be able to uh move on to this type of a position now you've done x y and z and now they're coming back and saying that's no not true what we told you was wrong uh or what you understood was wrong that you didn't do x y and z so uh or even if you do x y and z you're not qualified is that what you're telling me

because you've seen the way you the way you've structured your sentences two times you've two different times in this conversation it sounded like you think you work for liars well i we i will say i definitely have a new manager and i think that this new manager wants me to apply for this new position however i i feel like i have if

there's no chance of getting it why does your new manager want you to apply for it that's my thing is i don't understand

the thought process behind my managers and i've tried to get some clarification and i'm still uncertain uh coworkers are

saying you should just apply just apply because there's no harm in it and i understand that but at the same time it's causing me more frustration and emotional and mental harm than it is doing me good trying to fight for something that i can't get right well then don't do it and you also have some concerns so confused i don't know why you can't get it your manager told you to apply for it he's not going to tell you to apply for something you can't get

i honestly i can't tell you why dave it's been a it's i've been asking for cross-training opportunities to get a position like this for at least three out of the four to five years that i've been here so why would your manager tell you to apply for something that you have zero chance of getting that's not logical they haven't told me specifically to apply for it but i i

just get the sense that they would like for me too okay but didn't you all so do you have a sense that they think you're not qualified do they tell you you're not qualified they specifically told there's two positions available one is a

a lower level position than the actual position that i'm looking for and that position both are currently available one i think she would like for me to apply for the lower position but she has told me that i'm not eligible that i'm not qualified for the higher

position all right but do you even want the higher position let's just remove all this for a second all this confusion back and forth do you even want the position if you were qualified would you be jumping for it yeah actually whenever i begin to apply for the position that i currently have i originally applied for that position and they asked for me to apply that for

the position that i currently have okay so i've been asking for that position ever since i've been there oh i get i think there's a pattern here do you feel that you're qualified on paper for this role i think so well no no no i don't want to think so i mean like do you know if you look at this position out in the marketplace like if

you went somewhere else you could make a case when you're being interviewed that you should be able to get this job done so you feel you're qualified i believe so okay i think it's time to start looking today let's start looking let's test the market let's find out there's a there's a gap here between you feel like well dave's right i feel like you feel like they're dishonest we're not we're not saying you're wrong we're just saying it's all over

you you feel like they've been dishonest with you they're not giving you an opportunity we've got previous management saying you're not qualified new person comes in i think she there's too much this stuff going on getting your extreme job with dishonest people is not your dream job yeah that's my thought process as well dude yeah so you move on yeah if that's if that's that's why i was asking where your head was on that issue

because you know if you feel like that because they're going to cut your knees out from under you if they're going to catch you right if that's who they are uh if that's if that's the real conclusion that you've come to now you beat around the bush in this conversation you've not been clear with us we've had to pull this out of you so keep in mind

i mean i don't know whether you're trying to be nice or what you're trying to do but you know bottom line is the issue here is you don't trust your leadership and that means it's time to move yeah listen folks when you feel there's a lid on you whether you know all the reasons or not start looking elsewhere because it's only a matter of time before you become bitter

and then this thing can turn toxic on your end and you end up burning a bridge and hurting your future because you're just sitting around kind of e-warring you know you got to move on and i think i'd start looking today again this is such a great time to look and this is where we find out by the way if if we are qualified yeah if you go out

there and can't get the job then maybe they were right that's right they weren't dishonest they were just being honest they were telling you the truth you're not qualified we've got to find the common denominator in this situation yeah is it him that'll do it or is it leadership go do some interviews if you don't get the job then you'll know that's what's going on so at least hypothetically you'll know yeah

so um yeah the other thing you can do is have some very clear precise language not like you used with us uh discussions with some leaders

in the organization and go listen i really feel like this is what i was promised i feel like i've lived up to it so i'm really struggling with why i

shouldn't get this position can you show me what i need to do to be able to follow through on what i thought we were doing and that's a very clear concise

set of words yeah and you don't have to accuse somebody of lying with to do that you can just challenge out the situation say i need to know why it is that after five years and having done these things that that i'm not able to do the thing that i thought that i signed up for to get to see this is very important folks make sure you hear what dave said most weak leaders they're just weak

i mean doesn't mean they're bad people but weak leaders don't communicate clearly they're afraid of confrontation so by being honest like dave just described that kind of very clear very clear put the ball in their court and if you give them a clear question and they don't give you clear back there's your answer this is weak leadership they're never going to tell me what i need to hear

because we need to hear it but it takes us being honest what kind of value do i need to add to be qualified yes and when i do that then what you're saying is then i get the role right and if if they look at you and go one of the things you have to learn is clear communication it might be it could be that could be

the comeback you know yeah so um it's a possibility so that's the kind of stuff but there's nothing wrong with testing the waters and going and interviewing especially if you've lost faith in the integrity of the organization that's really when it's time to move on this is the ramsey show

[Music] [Applause]

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if you're ready to get out there and find a job you love then you need to hear this job hunting can be stressful and time consuming but my friends at zip recruiter have made the whole job search way easier ziprecruiter is rated the number one job site in the us by g2 and it's free so how does it work first go to ziprecruiter.com ken then create a free profile

and let their technology do the hard work by finding and sending you jobs that are a great fit and get this zip recruiter pitches your profile to companies whose jobs match your skills and experience if someone from that company likes your profile they can personally invite you to apply for the job so if you're ready for an easier job

search check out ziprecruiter sign up for free right now at ziprecruiter.com

ken that's ziprecruiter.com slash ken sign up today

absolutely free and let zip recruiter

work for you

[Music]

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage

mike and christy are with us hey guys how are you great dave how about you good to have you where do you guys live matt menville tennessee oh just over the hill just over the hill well thanks for joining us here guys great and how much debt have you all paid off fifty six thousand nine hundred and eighty four dollars in the past 18 months wow that was quick and your range of income during that time a hundred thousand between the two cool what do you all do for a living i'm a tool maker in a plastic injection company she's a kindergarten kindergarten teacher at eastside elementary all right fun very fun so what kind of debt was your 57 000 oh a lot of fun credit cards truck jeep house kind of normal that's normal oh you paid off your house yeah in the 57 000.

wow wow okay very cool looking at weird people yeah okay so you had normal debt yes and and

have been going along how long y'all been married 24 years okay and you look up 18 months ago and decided to do this crazy ramsay stuff what happened um well actually my mother had given me a book in 92 when i got my first home and uh

she's always preached to me about saving and working and not being in debt and paying for cash for things and of course i ignored all of it and had a lot of fun and running up credit card bills about about 10 000 in that and um

you felt like you didn't have i didn't have a way out um you feel trapped you smell you feel smothered um but then it uh you started seeing progress you know and then 18 months ago you know we we decided that you know i'm tired of this and let's let's get out of it we started following your baby steps and i was marking off each day we started with

the lowest and kept marking them off and just visually seeing that just made a difference for us and then we printed off your little bricks on the house where you mark off the bricks and course that helped us keep going and and we have two children in college too so we did all of this while we're paying for college too and two others over here wow where are

they in college um one is at utc and one is at tennessee tech and thankfully they did the community college thing for two years in both affordable schools that they're in for your school yeah so you're not yes you can go crazy on that yeah so that's good the scholarships so in 1992

your mother gave you one of my books the little blue one yeah it has to be because that's the first first year i said that's the one i won't sign i want one mom that's that's the uh that thing's a classic i mean 92 is the first year that it came out i saw those out of the trunk of my car just like that car over there oh see that's vintage vintage i like that i'm slow reader

yeah that was slow on the uptick but yeah just took 30 years to get around to it that's awesome but then okay so what happened 18 months ago that was the wake up call that made you get so intense

well i i was really pushing it i'll be honest and i just wanted him to get on board with me and uh i would we would just be very intentional about our spending and i kind of started doing the minimalist thing where less is more and

that helped out a whole lot and it wasn't easy because i had a bump in the road i had a stage one breast cancer diagnosis last year in august so that kind of set us back a little bit but i went through the radiation treatments and we just kept persevering and we're here now and your cancer free now cancer-free now it's been a year that free cancer free what a year it was like for us the budget

working on the budget that was probably the hardest part for me because when you put it on paper and you see i mean there was actually a few years back when the kids were just born not just the twins but nolan and katie

i was working she was at home with the kids and it's a lot of stress and you're asking for overtime and you're just trying to break even because at 40 hours there was a time that you know 94 a week i was in the hole at 40 hours a week and that's a lot of stress on my dad and a marriage in the home and and it just builds on you and and as we the past 18 months you see that

light at the end of that tunnel when one gets paid off you get the credit card paid off you get the trip to paid off you get the truck paid off you get and it just starts snowballing just like you know it's like you teach you know you see that hope and uh it's i didn't know

how much stress i really had

because it'd been there for so long yeah and once you start getting to the end of it it's like man what can i do i mean it's like i look at everything totally different now it's um what what can i do you know instead of what i can i can't do it's like i told my wife instead of buying on time i want to live on my time now

i don't i don't want i don't want to just struggle and i like it and we want to give god all the glory because and this none of this would be possible without him we definitely put him first in our lives and we're here now because of him yeah we i mean we've been blessed with with with health and things that bumps comes along but it's still was still worked out

and uh again getting to work through a pandemic nothing you know i didn't have to worry about any of that it could still work and still go and still do and it's just been a blessing i mean it's pretty cool yeah so christy i gotta go back in the story because i think i'm missing something here and i want to make sure i'm catching on what's happening okay

so we go along and about 18 months ago you somehow connected to us fresh

um i had been listening to you oh you had been listening for a while several years you just kind of turned up the old heat a little bit in your sweet little way yes and i was listening to your daughter too and um okay and you know okay so you just kept turning it up a little bit turning it up because we did try this several years back yes and um it just i

gave up yeah we weren't on board and we weren't intentional with it so we just became intentional and this paid off

look at mike he's he's going through active recovery right there yeah it's the truth that is the truth yeah i could see it hey mike i do want to ask you because you shared some really gut-wrenching stuff there and i think a lot of people feel very all right what's it like on the other side and i mean i want you to now drive now that you're free

i want you to describe because you said you didn't know what it felt like because you'd had it so long so now on the other side what is the positive emotional and physical peace that you have you're not trapped i mean and what i mean by that is i mean i love my job i mean i've been a tool maker all my life in my working life

and you know i've been there since 92 you know for coming up on 30 years but you feel um i don't i don't owe anybody anything you know i can give we have some very dear friends you know lost a daughter to cancer during all this you know almost well not a year ago but i want to help and i want to help i want you know

if it's just giving something to saint jude or if it's just doing i just want to help yeah and and those opportunities you can you you see you you see somebody that's alone and eating at a restaurant i i i i'm not a secret's out i guess now but i try to i want to buy their lunch and just let them not know and just go just

the little things you know nothing big but just you can just do those things and not worry you can be a little you're a little kinder you're a little nicer it's a little sweeter at home i mean because i mean the family's growing and and we're just kind of off and running and you wanna you can step and watch and you know i i had uh uh covered in in august

and i missed the month of work but guess what there was a savings and i didn't have to worry about it you know and it's just those types of things that you see it working and it's great and it's yeah and you brought two of your daughters with you what are their names christian and kerrigan okay and they're they're the twins they're twins okay how old are they 15. all right so here comes some more college yeah i like it but now we're ready we're ready game off we're ready i'm so proud of y'all congratulations thank you very well done what's this house worth you paid off um probably about 350.

awesome on our way to being baby steps millionaires then that's welding nice well you're right there you're going to be there for you know it well done you guys we got a copy of the legacy journey for you copy a total money makeover maybe you can give it away to somebody and they'll read it before 1992. yes we hope to help others definitely i love it all right count it down gang 57 000 paid

off in 18 months making 100 a year count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're dead

that's gold right there man yeah that is

cool there's so much in that

so much going on that's fun mike might

get in trouble for getting ahead of the count there he might he might you never know this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day philippians 3 13 and 14 one thing i do forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead i press on toward the goal to win

the prize for which god has called me heavenward in christ jesus serena williams said don't let anyone work harder than you do that's important right there guys it's

almost time for christmas it's going to sneak up on you but for some of you what should be a time of joy tradition togetherness is stress you're stressing over how you're going to pay for presents the big grocery bills the stuff doesn't have to be that way when you have a plan you have confidence instead of stress and when everything else seems out of control financial peace university will show

you how to put that plan in place you're going to learn step by step how to get out of debt save money build wealth be outrageously generous you put the plan into practice by budgeting with every dollar it syncs up easily with your bank you can track your spending you can finally see where your money goes you get all of this with a ramsey plus membership and that's

the only way to get it you don't have to live through a stressed out christmas make 2022 the year you start winning because right now you start a free trial of ramsey plus plus by texting trial 233

789 a free trial by texting trial two

three three seven eight nine kevin is in orlando hi kevin

welcome to the ramsay show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up so um my wife and i um we have a baby on the way we just purchased a house together i'm trying to decide whether my previous

house which i had paid off whether i should throw all that at my mortgage or

invest that you know in the market in some kind of safe conservative mutual funds well uh you're debt-free other than the homes uh we have a car payment but just going gonna pay that off uh once we get the new money from the house okay so the the the original house you're talking about is sold or is going to be sold and how much are you going how much are you going to receive from it um about 550.

550 000 clear

yes sir okay and how much do you owe in your car

um just under 60 000. and what do you owe on your home uh 800 000. and what's your household income uh just about 400 000 a year wow way to

go dude what do you guys do for a living thank you um we're both in healthcare okay congratulations very well done great careers okay um well what we have found

is that the first one to five million dollars of net worth that people get is typically from a paid for house and their retirement accounts in 401ks

403 b's iras our baby step number one is save a thousand dollars you've obviously done that two is to be debt-free everything with the house we got a plan to pay off the sixty thousand dollar car which is going to leave us 490 000 with an 800 000 mortgage baby

step three is saving three to six months

of expenses how much non-retirement saving and investing do you currently have uh just under nine hundred thousand

non-retirement yes mutual sorry um money market account and

uh savings okay uh what i would do if i woke up in your shoes is i would pay off my house 100 okay now you're sitting there with a paid for house a four hundred thousand dollar income you have an emergency fund set aside of three to six months of expenses and now there's nothing left to do but build wealth and be outrageously generous but no house payment is going to get you there and here's what you're going to find okay you're in a high stress environment

that is emotionally and intellectually fatiguing agreed correct you're going to feel something that you don't anticipate that your intellect doesn't tell you you're gonna feel when you pay off this house you're gonna feel a release a sense of peace because it's like having a backache and you've had it so long you don't even realize it's there and you don't think about it but when it's gone you're like wow

i just got set free that's pretty incredible so um that's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna pay off that house that's the way i have lived personally and once i got there it was fairly easy to become very very wealthy with that kind of income and not a payment in the world plus you don't have a care in the world in the middle of weirdness and dude you've experienced some weirdness in healthcare in

the last 24 months agreed yes sir yeah and and so one less thing you know i have two i've had all kinds of stress around the business and trying to keep this thousand people employed and revenues going up revenues going down entire areas of revenue disappearing and trying to run this thing but i never had the stress of worrying about a foreclosure i never had the stress of worrying about

if i personally was going to be left out in the cold because it was all paid for there's a release there the borrower's slave to the lender and when you're 100 debt free there's a freedom that's going to cause you to prosper yet even more changes your decision making paradigm it really does and and you're right this at this stage where they are at this is the right move

it sets them up for their future serious serious good position you've gotten yourself into well done catherine's in london hi catherine welcome to the ramsay show

hi dave hi ken thank you very much for taking my call and this is my first time calling in so i'm thrilled to have got through well we're honored to have you how can we help um okay so my question um

so essentially i'm in a job that i don't

love um but i have the equivalent of about 25 27

000 worth of debt that i need to pay off my job is well paid and i make about

98 000 equivalent um before tax um then i

i i want out and but then i i've got this debt that i need to pay i have an eight-year-old son he's in private school um that i'm paying for um and my question essentially is how do i plan an exit from a job that i don't love yeah well do you like it

okay well a couple things don't walk into this with the assumption that if you change jobs that you have to take a big pay cut and we're not going to jump off of a cliff here we don't want to see any interruption in income so catherine if there's no interruption in income and you can step into something else that is much more enjoyable that doesn't have all

the factors at play that's going on with what's going on now you wouldn't even be calling us you'd be like okay and so let's let's start with the assumption that we're not going to have an interruption in income okay that's first but the question is do you know what you would love to do or is there a job that you are very intrigued by a career path that you've always wanted to pursue um to be honest i'm not sure i'm i'm 45 um

and i kind of feel like that's so i work in healthcare and i've worked in healthcare for 25 years okay um

and i have been looking at other roles that are within my field but i quite and

you know it's um it's quite a thriving industry at the moment but every role that i come across i just i don't even bother to read the whole job specs but i'm just not interested and i just i don't know if it's because you know if it's a combination of

um part of the reason why i don't love my job okay all right so let me know

or the pandemic i kind of feel like i don't want to do this anymore yeah well you have to listen to that but here's what i want you to do you've got some debt you make really good money and you've got some debt that you can pay off pretty quickly if you stay focused so for right now catherine i want you to stay in this job i know

you don't love it i know you want out but let's change our attitude the attitude is hey i'm grateful for this job because it's taking care of me my eight-year-old son and it's allowing me to pay off debt and i'm going to stay put until i've got something to step into so that's our focus so here's what i want to do kelly let's give kathryn a link to

the get clear career assessment that we sell here ramsey solutions kencoleman.com would you take the assessment it's going to point out a whole lot to you that you've never seen before and then let's come up with a clear path hang on we're going to give you the brand new from paycheck to purpose because it's the field guide to the mountain that the assessment will point out both of

these tools catherine will show you the direction that you need to go walk through it stage by stage don't interrupt your income and you're going to be fine that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 208. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 13, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today we're answering your questions about your life and your money you will know george's voice from several of our podcasts the borrowed future podcast which millions of you have downloaded now the new fine print podcast which is uh wow it's come out of the gate like a super popular thing because it is very well done and of course he's

the host of the entree leadership podcast so fine print is uh has dropped another episode this week we got 10 episodes total and this was like number seven right yeah yeah the dirty truth about credit scores that's one you've been railing against for years dave and so i just wanted to once and for all you can send this to your friends and go just listen to this listen to

this 25-minute episode on credit scores to get the skinny yeah because you we've done one on bitcoin it was very good listen to it i listened to the one on uh the uh miles and points oh

credit card that was well done well done chuck e cheese that was a good chuck e cheese best analogy i could come up with i'm well played well played because it's beautiful too i mean it's the exact same thing yeah it's all it's all psychological sticky hands gamification sticky hands you gotta have them open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we answer your questions about your life and your money shane is with us shane is in indianapolis hi shane how are you

hey dave i'm doing well how about yourself better than we deserve what's up well great um my wife and i are seeing a move in the next one to three years

i'm debt free other than my house i owe 115 000 on on the house right now

and i have 125 000 in cash and then i

also have twenty thousand dollars of an emergency fund um thanks so i wonder just do i pay out the house now or knowing that we're probably going to move you know in the next one to three years do i continue on the path that i'm on of just stacking away cash or i'll pay it off and then you can stack more cash because you don't have a house payment yeah yep okay that's impressive how did

you save up 125 thousand dollars i'm just curious um we just kind of had a wildly important goal of my my wife staying at home and

um we thought the best path of doing this um you know is to pay off the house and to remain debt free so early on we started off um we took your financial peace university before we got married and we've kind of uh just always lived by your rules and principles you're doing extremely well i'm very proud of you let's back into why i said to do that okay you're gonna move anyway obviously

you know that when you sell the house they're gonna give you a check so you're not losing the money you're not spending the money you're not consuming the money it's just changing positions which asset is parked in right and so you're doing away with a mortgage and your interest rate is higher than your savings rate on your savings account so you're mathematically going to win a tiny tiny bit

there but it's not really worth doing it for that what will happen is this and this is what i it took me probably 15 or 20 years of doing this before i really gave credit to this because i'm a math nerd i wanted everything to be a math thing but here's a weird thing you make biff different decisions with a paid for house yeah you just do

because you're your head space you're where you are spiritually where you are relationally changes and so i'm not saying you'll stay because it's paid for i'm saying you're gonna kind of feel um

very confident edging on cocky as a

seller because i don't have to sell it

and um i'm you know i'm going to get a price and there's nothing pushing this there's no there's no uh i just don't have to be in a hurry because i don't have any payments also you're going to be able to pile up cash like a crazy man because you don't have the house payment anymore that works too and you're obviously very good at that congratulations again i'm very impressive uh but but you know even stuff like uh you know

another wave of covid comes through or uh uh or just a wave of political stupidity comes through which seems to be coming in the tsunami level these days but the uh uh but you know if you just keep this you know something comes through all these external variables that we don't have control over our spirits and our decision making

is much cleaner and wiser when we're sitting in a paid for house than when we're sitting with 115 120 000 in the bank and not a paid for house it's just weird and it does it's there's no math to it it's just a the borrower is slave to the lender and the slave when he no longer has a master is known as free

and it just you know think about a slave and how their mentality changes and that's a there is something to that that is beyond just the apparent mathematics yeah absolutely and not only that but you're saving on interest you're going to pay to this bank you're freeing up the payment and you said at the beginning you have this wildly important goal so that your wife can stay home

and so if you can do that earlier now with a paid for house this is fantastic news well she's probably already done it i mean it's just incredible very very well done sharp young couple and i'm glad that uh what we do at ramsey was able to add value to somebody like that's life yeah very more

of that i want to see that happen all over the yeah i mean what problems to have i have the money in the bank to pay off my house should i do it this is a there's a better much better question than i'm four payments behind yes how do i stop the foreclosure yeah because we have done detailed research and 100 of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage ironclad data it's just straight up there's no question about it

so there is risk associated with it and we just do not perceive the risk because we all understand that housing is such a good investment real estate's such a stable investment by and large and so we don't assign any emotionally and spiritually any risk to the process now shane wasn't pushing back but some of your you know dave ramsey lost his mind he told that 32 year old guy pay off his house

he should have been telling me no no dave's not lost his mind the instructions i gave him were the shortest distance between where he is now and wealthy and we know this from the millionaire data yeah and we're seeing this where a lot of people have a stack of cash and they go well dave doesn't make sense to pay off the house i could invest that the market's doing

so well right now it is but those people have never felt the feeling of having a paid for house without mortgage payment and here's the thing too if you don't think there's an emotional element to it just reverse the process what if you were sitting with um ten thousand dollars in the bank instead of 125 000 and your house was paid for would you go borrow 115 on your house in order to put

it in the bank can have 125 in the bank with a mortgage reverse the process and i bet i mean i i would say 98 percent of the time i ask the question in reverse like that people just go well no but it's a trick question because it tricks you to thinking with your heart not just your head and your heart's where you measure risk your math where

you do math oh that was good your head's where you do math your heart's where you measure risk and you just kind of you have an almost a visceral reaction to that no i wouldn't do that but well it's the same thing yeah you get excited about seeing that money grow in an investment but you don't take into account the risk when you do that but when

you talk about borrowing money on a paid for house you feel the risk for the first time yeah all of a sudden all of your end quotes air quotes sophisticated math goes out the window yep yeah i say air quotes because it's not sophisticated because you left out risk and sophisticated math would include risk this is the ramsey show

if you're ready to get out there and find a job you love then you need to hear this job hunting can be stressful and time consuming but my friends at ziprecruiter have made the whole job search way easier ziprecruiter is rated the number one job site in the us by g2 and it's free so how does it work first go to

ziprecruiter.com ken then create a free profile and let their technology do the hard work by finding and sending you jobs that are a great fit and get this zip recruiter pitches your profile to companies whose jobs match your skills and experience if someone from that company likes your profile they can personally invite you to apply for the job so if you're ready for an easier job search check out ziprecruiter

sign up for free right now at ziprecruiter.com ken that's ziprecruiter.com

ken sign up today absolutely free and let zip recruiter work for you

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so

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today he is also the host of the ever popular podcast the fine print be sure and check it out ramsey network's producing all kinds of wonderful podcasts these days and we've got a little documentary coming out tomorrow it's big dave it's not little nothing little about it and i'm telling you it's a big deal i've been doing media all over

the nation they're wearing me out around here and i'm about to do about 20 more hits tomorrow on it to promote it and it is uh it's gonna be mammoth i mean i'm so excited about it it's so well done borrowed future how student loans are killing the american dream the epic failure of the student loan program you watch this with you're gonna go every teenager in america needs to see

this and every parent of every teenager needs to see see this so they grow a backbone and don't allow their kids to make some of the mistakes that people make all the time 45 million americans in student loan debt that's a lot wow it's crazy yeah i just talked to seth fratman the other day who's featured in the documentary and he was giving me the update on where things are at two years later

because we interviewed him back in 2019 and let me tell you it's it's dismal not a lot has changed no the hope that people had uh they're still hoping they're waiting with baited breath for forgiveness and new legislation and the new president and is he going to do what he said he was going to do and we just want people to be free and take to take control for themselves yeah

if you wait on washington to bless your home you're going to be a loser your whole life your home has to be blessed by you and your hands and your work and your decisions and your critical thinking skills that's what's going to happen that's real so yeah these are the people that get out of student loan debt and the you know the public student loan forgiveness program 98 of those that apply for forgiveness

denied people paid 10 years work a job that wouldn't work and 10 years later 98 tonight that's called lying

if if anything else had that pass fail right i mean i wouldn't exist today yeah

that's called lying to your constituents when the federal government makes you a promise that 98 of the people don't cash in on can't cash in on are denied dedication on it's a lie is what that is it's just it's it's criminal is what it is it's like trying to cancel comcast it's nearly impossible very few people are able to withstand well have you ever tried to cancel a discover card it's not it's right

there next to it yeah that's it that's the truth right there man so anyway check it out apple tv google play amazon prime and borrowed future dot com if you are a teacher and you would like to show this documentary to your teens or pre-teens

uh it's free for you as a teacher to show to your classroom we're not going to charge you a dime or college even i don't care just tell me you're a teacher go to borrowed future.com and we will set you up with that if you're a sunday school teacher and you want to show it to your teen for teenagers and you want to show it to them

i we want to we want to cause a holy ruckus with this it's time it's time someone stood up and said this is wrong the actors are bad actors there's so many villains it was hard to tell the story yeah a good story has one villain and one hero and it is very difficult it's a terrible story this one's it's like it's like a bad saturday morning cartoon that got out of control yeah

i mean it's just it's a bad thing but it's it's a you won't be able to put it down people that have watched it in the previews oh man you can't unsee it at the end you have to make a decision you have to go what do i believe about this am i going to support the system exactly kimberly is in san antonio hi kimberly welcome to

the ramsey show hi dave how are you doing today better than i deserve how can we help i'm a little nervous right now it's okay we've never lost a page okay thank you thank you um so we we're an active duty uh family

thank you for your service thank you i appreciate it um i just have some questions all my questions are related up to our military lifestyle

uh i guess my first question is going to be about the service members civil relief act um how we can use that in our advantage um in my for us personally we don't uh we

have zero percent interest in all of our credit cards due to that act and how can we use that in a in our advantage that would be uh my first question um i can go into the others but i really want to tackle these well the biggest thing there is uh that the service relief act gives us two things one is you've got the zero percent that you're able to say okay 100 of what i pay on this credit credit card debt goes on the principal so it's a real opportunity uh

while apparently someone is not only active duty but deployed into a combat zone right

correct yeah but um yeah it has varieties but we have been

participating for a few years already okay then you're in there good so yeah so 100 of what you pay on these credit cards is going to get rid of them so chop them up and let's list them smallest to largest as far as the debt rate goes and attack them with a vengeance the other part of the act that sometimes folks have to use and we've used in financial coaching with the military for years is that if you are behind on something

uh like a behind on a car payment or behind on rent or behind on a house payment the creditor cannot foreclose or repossess on you because you're falling to that act uh until you guys get back and everybody's you know not deployed into a combat zone and get back active and so forth but that's probably not gonna apply to you but the whole thing is when you got zero percent instead of eighteen percent

you know let's take advantage of that and use that extra that same thing with those those of you sitting on student loans right now you have zero percent so let's let's just use this time not to sit around and twiddle our thumbs and go oh we don't have to be in a hurry we have zero percent no this is get in a hurry time yeah and that's what we're seeing

it reminded me of the student loan extended relief where it's zero percent people go well i'm going to take advantage of this but the real way to take advantage of it is to pay off all your debt and get rid of it so i don't know how much debt kimberly has on this or if she's just saying how do i take advantage of this card going forward

there is no way to take advantage of debt that's not really a gift yeah it takes advantage of you felicity is in newark new jersey hi felicity how are you great thanks for taking my call sure what's up so my husband and i are debt-free we're currently about 30 000 into renting to

own it's an interest-free contract with the option to buy it back excuse me to back out or to buy out at any time um if you're a close family friend of ours who's now looking to close his rental business and while he's obviously still willing to carry through on our agreement contract he approached us with the option of avoiding the agreement we have to instead purchase the house for a dollar both him

and ourselves using his lawyer and then essentially draw up a second agreement that was basically a personal loan between him and ourselves for the remainder of what we owe him on the rent to end this would also be interest-free but um since we're doing him a favor as well as paying the lawyer fees he would deduct our total amount by like 10 to 15 000 but my husband

and i are just a little nervous we're not sure if that's possible or smart to do and what kind of tax transfer issues we would run into since it would look like we paid a dollar for the house when really we didn't wow you're not going to run into any problems uh you may need to pay more recording fees than than you would pay on a dollar

because that is going to be weird uh you may want to give assign an actual value because you're in most states i don't know how jersey works but in most states when you when you record the deed for the house you're taxed on the amount of the sale at that

time the warranty deed okay which is your title all right and so you're probably not going to want to try to pull that off at a dollar that's going to create problems for you but other than that um i this sounds a little um

why does he not want a lien on the house why is he making it a personal loan

it's just a close family friend i mean he doesn't know but there's no point there's no point that's just weird

it's not like it's not really doing you a favor and it leaves him in a very very weak position doesn't hurt you your position's fine

see if you don't pay and he's got a lien on the house he could foreclose on the house you don't pay in this situation he just has to sue you like it's an unsecured debt exactly yeah there's no harm in what you're outlining i would have an attorney draft it all pay be willing to pay some attorneys fees to make sure this is done the way it's described here but um

it feels like he's hiding something from someone else is what it feels like he's trying to keep his money off the grid somehow because of course when you record when you have a mortgage it's recorded at the courthouse a personal loan just between you and him there's no public record of it so it sounds like this guy's trying to get off the grid or something i don't know be careful because it's an unusual transaction so i don't know that there's a rat but there's hints of rats here

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage adam and olivia are with us hey guys how are you great how are you dave better than we deserve george hey hey george where do you guys live uh verona new york cool welcome to nashville and all the way here to do a debt-free screen how much do you pay off 172 630. way to go and how long did that take 27 months all right and your range of income during that time 126 000 to 190 000. wow

nice jump in 27 months what do you guys do for a living i am a maintenance and facilities engineer at aerospace company and i'm a project manager for a commercial millwork company okay so how does your income go up seventy thousand sixty five thousand bucks during twenty seven months change jobs you got new jobs both of you yes oh wow what precipitated that uh wasn't happy where

he was just wanted more money oh yeah and it was there so we're gonna go get it correct absolutely i like it good for you guys what kind of debt was the hundred and seventy three thousand we had uh we had a wide range we had credit cards student loans personal loans we had uh some medical

debt some uh previous marriage debt and uh oh yeah we uh paid off our house our house whoa look at the weird people how old are you guys i'm 30. 37. and a paid for house you are so weird i love it what's this house worth uh right now right around 200 000.

you own it baby you own it it's yours yeah we originally bought it about seven years ago for 40 000.

excellent job wow so you just plugged into the podcast or what yes watched a lot of them watch a lot of youtube videos we we just went went to town on watching you yeah about a half an hour commute each way um so that was all it was on the car i love it well we are honored thank you i'm glad we added value you guys are incredible well done i'm proud of

you who was your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you i would say michelle was probably one of the biggest cheerleaders you're you're a financial advisor financial advisor our parents are obviously super proud of us and um our oldest son aiden loved to see us color

in our chart every week and was so happy and cheering us on and excited to get to that next line yeah what made you guys plow through this so quickly i mean you have a great income but most people would go you know we'll we'll get this thing done but you decided to do it in just over two years we sold a lot we we

did so a lot uh just running the numbers through excel spreadsheets i was like i think we could do this and we just put our minds through indebted we took a lot of side jobs uh like she said we sold off a lot of stuff i sold my corvette a porsche a corvette and a porsche so you said you know what it's worth it i'm gonna sacrifice get rid of some of these toys and i can have all the toys later on exactly wow that's big deal

what did the porsche and the corvette sell for uh not as much as you think uh the one they were both fixer-uppers and they were just gonna be projects and i just never got around to actually doing anything with them okay so they were actually gonna be a money drain correct because of the if a project car they you could spend some money on that exactly wow wow okay all of

this sacrifice you're working like crazy you're selling everything you're in the wood shop making your own cabinets all this sacrifice you've been busting it for 27 months was it worth it very much so and it's hard to get out of that mindset it was hard to to say hey we're gonna we're gonna put this money aside just to travel down here for this about i mean we

we knew we wanted this the whole time and so we made it happen yeah when you bust through the end of it it's like okay what now because it feels like i have to slow down it's kind of weird isn't it yeah yeah we enjoy watching our savings account go up our our retirement account go up our 401ks our roth iras everything

and it's kind of hard watching any of it go yeah but still working hard to get that house finished oh yeah yeah you'll get there it's going to be amazing well done you guys very well done excellent excellent job so what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is is track track drag just like you said but put a name on every single dollar just uh just keep track of everything you spend and don't be afraid to ask why

why why do we have to spend this do we really have to do we really need this working together being on the same page yeah you guys do seem there's a you can just almost an air of unity yeah i mean they are so close together they might fuse into one person just physically right now i love it it's such a key every time we see a couple like

this they're always holding hands hugging there's always this sense of unity that did you did your marriage grow during this journey in 27 months and more than i ever thought we uh it not only grew it kind of divided a little bit made a new one all right here we go i like it that's good stuff all right so you brought the kiddos with you to do

the debt-free scream what are their names and ages we have aiden he's nine and this is connor the new one he is six months all right and that's who we were just discussing yeah way to go connor you did it man good job

all right you can get free from sherry there good all right that's fun good stuff good stuff we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story you're going to be every baby steps millionaires before you know it if you're not already well done very well done and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give it away

and pay it forward to somebody and get them started and 27 months later maybe they'll be standing here you never know we would love that that's how that's how this stuff gets spread so thank you guys so much definitely uh looking forward to watching on the borrowed future ah welcome well i'll tell you what we're going to set you up with a uh with a free view of

it we're going to do that as part of the package you'll be in here today it'll be perfect we'll take care of that for you our oldest daughter is 17 and she's about ready to go to college next year oh wow this will uh this will scare you straight right here i'm just saying good good work you guys excellent excellent work all right it's adam and olivia aiden

and connor 173 000 paid off in 27

months house and everything not even 40

years old 126 190 000 income during that

time count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one [Applause]

well done i think that baby knows he's dead free i can see it on his face conor connor i mean hayden does the countdown this is good i could hear him he didn't have a microphone and we could hear him see this is uh this is how family tree's changed now he may not remember a lot but he's when he's 29 he'll remember that time his parents came

and stood on stage in nashville and yelled because they'd sacrificed and worked like crazy to change their family tree and when he's 29 out there walking around he's going to be making completely different decisions because of this yeah the the modeling that you do before your children and involving them in this process is as important as you becoming wealthy

in terms of you if you want to change your family tree you can leave an idiot ten million dollars they'll go through it but if you raise children that aren't idiots and because you modeled before them and you you know they'll win like one guy said the other day i was on the uh every day on the everyday millionaire hour i said would you inherit from your family

he said work ethic oh i love that you know character is more important to pass yeah morning morris caught than taught and uh he caught a lot watching his parents sacrifice for 27 months way

to go aiden incredible good job man well done well done well done good stuff

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we appreciate you guys listening george campbell ramsey personality host of the new podcast the fine print is my co-host today darren is with us in chicago hi darren how are you hey i'm doing pretty well how are you guys doing better than we deserve what's up i just want to first say just thank you guys for all that you do really appreciate uh you and all your your team there well thank you um so my question is uh so my wife is an

interior designer right now and um she's wanting to start her own interior design business in the next few years and i was just wondering if i could get some advice on how i could be you know just kind of a better encourager to help motivate her

and just kind of be that support person behind her um when when sometimes she does kind of have you know a lack of confidence in her ability to to be able to do that yeah absolutely first of all i think it's awesome that you are calling in on behalf to to want to show that level of support how serious is she about this business right now is

it just kind of a dream um it is a dream but she's you know like working towards uh to be able to do that um right now she works for a pretty big firm uh architecture firm um and so you know she's been getting more into reading different materials getting into like christie's uh material and just trying to set herself up whenever she is ready to kind of make that leap um

you know i know you guys always always say don't try to kind of get the boat a little bit closer to the dock before kind of making that leap so she's trying to kind of position herself to kind of start dabbling in that more and more yeah there's a lot of people that are um what we call makers um that make uh that often make the error of uh

because they're good at doing a thing they think they need to do a business of that they they're good at cooking and so they're a good chef so they need to run a restaurant cooking is a different skill set than running a restaurant is uh they they're good at uh being a uh a

web developer and so they need to open a digital web development company no you're there it's different skill set um they're good at uh sales and so they need to be promoted to sales manager uh now it's a different skill set to manage sales people than to actually be one and so on and and so you're good painter a house painter and so you want to open a house painting business well it's different skill set to run a business

and it is paint houses so that's the first area i would encourage her in is not to recognize how good she is at home decorating i think that's already established she's probably pretty confident about that where her lack of confidence and her fear will come up is is wise fear in that she realizes she's getting ready to become an executive in business and doesn't know how and

so now dive into christie's materials and learn how to run a business and then when she's learning the different components of business from entre leadership from the business boutique brand from christie then um you know you can do any i don't

i couldn't spell digital five years ago now the company i run is basically a digital company and i'm the ceo of a 300 million dollar company so but i don't i sit in the meetings with these digital people i don't even know what they're saying sometimes and i own the place but i don't but i don't have to have the digital skills i do have to have the executive skills to herd the cats towards a common goal

and a vision and setting that and keeping everybody in the in their lane and uh listening to the experts and going with learning enough to where i can make a good solid um decision and so executive skills are gathering up people to do things you don't know how to do and helping everybody going the right direction yeah part of that is figuring out is this a hobby is

this something i can do on the side and i still get joy from that versus when you do it full-time and this happened to me with music i tried to go in full-time into music and realize you know what i'm running a business and i don't want to be running a business i got into it because i love making music yeah and so that's something that she needs to dig into

and maybe she does it on the side for now and as it grows she may say you know what i do want to be my own boss i want to take this thing full time and that's when you can come along cider and support her with anything she needs yeah and you know so what i the encouragement is going to be you don't know how to do that

so what most executives don't

they don't know how to do the thing that they run necessarily uh and so the key to running a business is not to be an expert on the thing the key to running a business is being expert on getting people that are smarter than you in certain areas to all work together in concert you are the orchestra conductor you don't have to play the violin but you do have to get

the violin to come in at the proper time with the oboe yeah and darren notice i worked oboe into this i'm impressed that was one of those words i didn't know that you would work in today dave no that didn't when i got up this morning i thought i'm going to work oboe into the first hour my bingo card is now full yes so darren what i love to do is gift your wife a ticket to

the business boutique live stream she can tune in from chicago and it's happening this weekend dave's going to be speaking there and i think this will give her some real encouragement and really put down on paper what this dream is what it's gonna take to get there and then at least you know there's some facts on the ground where you can go all right is this something we're gonna do what is

the next step i can take and if it's confidence thing christy is a master at that and she's going to have a little bit more if not a lot more confidence after viewing this event so we'll have kelly pick up and make sure that she has access to that live stream and maybe you watch it with her that would be a cool thing to do to support her yeah christy has a talk on fear that even fear is afraid of

i believe that you don't mess with christy she's a beast [Laughter] in the best kind of way pretty incredible speaker pretty incredible communicator so uh yeah if you're worried about the fear in the face of what's going on in business you need to tune into business boutique this weekend uh you don't want to miss her and uh i'll be speaking dr john dolone several of the ramsey folks will be

there and the lineup is off the charts cool but of course christy is the star so open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll

talk about your life and your money

george it is interesting there's something that occurs um in the human spirit and it goes back to starting and running your own business like that but also has to do with any area of your life that you don't know something about you can learn about it yeah information is accessible you can you know you don't i don't know i've never been good with money okay you know get a free uh

you know get get a free trial to ramsey plus and start working your way through financial peace university we'll show you how to it's built for people that didn't know how to handle money it's not built for people with an mba i mean mbas go through it all the time but if you've got a phd in finance you're going to be going well this is very primitive well um yeah

because the stuff that you do doesn't work so we had to teach people stuff that works and so you know but i mean i can't tell you when i got married how many marriage books i started reading because i discovered i'm pretty bad at this i don't know how to do it and then when i started having kids i'm like oh they didn't come with a manual no instruction

when i brought them home from the hospital you know you know nobody to teach me i gotta learn how i mean training a dog you gotta you gotta learn from somebody because you don't you know and so in it the point is you can learn almost anything if you want to bad enough yeah and i found that i've got so many books sitting on the shelf that

i thought i want to learn about and i found that what i care about is what i invest my time into and so if you're big into interior designing you're going to figure out a way to do it you're going to watch youtube clips you're going to read books you're going to talk to mentors and you're going to figure out a way to do it but you have to want

it badly enough you get a fire in your belly yep and then you can you can learn anything now i mean it's accessible information is accessible and you don't have to be a genius so don't don't ever say i'm not good at blank blank you can say

i choose not to be good at blank blank but you're not good at it because you chose not to learn more about it whatever it is that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsay show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paying off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host thank you for joining us america george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print podcast among others is my co-host today

open phones as we talk to you about your life and your money this is a weird talk radio show because it's about you it's not about me not about it not even about george shock i thought that was gonna be the answer dave shock it it's all about george no no it's not no sorry george

not about me my feelings aren't you guys so it's weird because most talk radio is about the guy on the microphone and we're not the hero in this story you are we're just showing you how to do it open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five asheville north carolina glen is with us hey glenn how are you you're doing great dave thanks for taking my call

i really really appreciate all you do you too sir how can we help uh our family's been very blessed in that uh our children are registered with uh through my wife are part of a native american tribe and so they pay money into uh i guess it's kind of a trust fund for them that they can't access till they're 18 and then they disperse it for a few years

after that we have seven children and they're all registered so my approximations uh the oldest is 16 right now and my estimates are that when they turn 18 it'll be in the neighborhood of about 250 000 dollars until each beginning so each correct yeah so so my question for you was i mean i have some ideas but i wanted your opinion on what kind of things should

we be doing in the home to teach them about money now as well as make sure that once they get it they don't squander it because we know a lot of other people that are in the same boat and you know they buy cars and end up in a ditch in a few years and you know it's it can be pretty it's pretty sad i know it's not ten million dollars

but it's to us it's pretty substantial amount oh it is substantial it is and this this happens a lot and we've worked with a lot of tribal situations because the money has turned out to not be a blessing because it's caused people as you said to fall into addiction uh to fall into a

lack of a work ethic because they think they've got it made without working because they're on the tribal dole and um it's uh it's had a socio-economic effect that i don't think anybody really saw it was an unintended consequence across the board right uh certainly certain individuals have used it to be a blessing and others it's it's really damaged their life which is really sad and so we've seen that

so you guys are this is probably what cherokee correct correct yeah okay all right cool yeah been there been to that harass yeah so um the uh yeah sure i mean i was born in maryville so cherokee north carolina's just up over the hill from us yeah so uh i've been around this my whole life but it's just become extremely profitable because the casinos in the last uh few decades for a lot of

the tribes so anyway all that to say um it's a little

bit like growing up in a wealthy family only the family didn't earn the money right and so you have to guard your kids about against the dangers of wealth which are sloth a addiction and misbehavior sloth meaning laziness okay and so we had to teach the ramsey kids as an example growing up that they had that they're entitled to nothing

don't talk to me about entitled uh you know a ramsey kid get jacked up growing up if they start acting entitled and especially if they start acting like my dad's on the radio so i get to do so and so i really jack you up you start playing the dave card rachel can tell you stories from her childhood that left scars and so because it's just because

i was not going to have our kids turn out as a reality show because we built wealth and i wanted quite the opposite the wealth needs to be a blessing and the money is not the problem the problem is how you react to it and so what you have to start teaching your kids as early as possible is that this is this is not you hit the tribal lottery

this is you have a tremendous responsibility with great blessing comes great responsibility and i want you instead of feeling like you had like you scored a touchdown in the super bowl and like you did something fancy because you hadn't done nothing you just hit the dna lottery that was it that's all you've done you're entitled to nothing here so instead you need to take this money and see it as a responsibility to your family you know your own future

family to yourself to your community and so wealth is a it is a responsibility and i want you to feel the weight of that we did that through a spiritual lens saying we don't own it god owns it we're managing it for him so we have the responsibility to be faithful to be trustworthy worthy of trust in this and so there's going to be a lot of dad speeches in your house if you're wise and you know teach them to work teach them to act like this money's not there if they act like the money's not there they'll be just fine and that money then can be a blessing and they can hold it with an open hand with a generous hand they can hold it with a hand towards the future um all of those kinds of things and and so but it can be done you can teach a kid in a rich family work ethic you can teach them integrity you can teach them character uh you can teach them delayed pleasure uh you can teach them the generosity um but but where this all falls down is when it becomes very all about me all about me all about me that's the entitled arrogant mentality that that sometimes the truth in a sense it's like a trust fund baby right right yeah so uh smart money smart kids is the book that rachel and i did that was the number one bestseller that addresses how to raise kids and teach them how to handle money we talk about this kind of stuff in there i'll send you a copy of it uh george what do you want to add to that you've watched rachel and daniel and denise around this place yeah there's zero entitlement and all work ethic and what i've seen glenn is that money is going to make them more of whoever they are and so whatever they are at age 18 well that's how they're going to handle that money when they get that 250k so what i want you to do is raise them in the best way you can walk them through the principles of smart money smart kids have them go through financial peace university maybe as a family and then you can start to go hey what are your goals this money can then flow through that framework that you've worked so hard to build to where they go cool we're going to cash flow school we're not going to take out any debt we're going to get ourselves a car we're going to have a down payment for the house we're going to have a fully funded emergency fund and what that's going to do is catapult them into their adult life while their peers are hanging behind with all these student loans and car payments they are able to have a paid for house at 24.

and so i'm glad the young man young ladies are being blessed it's a good thing let's just make sure it is uh that they understand they're blessed so that they can be a blessing [Music]

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host the last 24 months have been

hmm a lot hasn't it a lot of worry a lot of wondering what's gonna happen next a lot of uncertainty a lot of cray cray out there and maybe that's how you feel about your money you're tired you're stuck you're stretched thin it doesn't have to be this way the weird thing is is even in a wicked weird environment if you have a plan

there's a sense of calm and a success level that changes because a plan gives you confidence when everything else is out of control we teach you the plan and have for decades in a class called financial peace university almost 10 million people have been through this class and it'll teach you everything you need to know to save money get out of debt become wealthy and be outrageously generous you can stream the lessons on your own or you can even go to class with other people and get support that way or both

then you'll put the plan into practice with the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app the world's best budgeting app it syncs up with your bank and you can track your spending and see where your money goes you get all of this only with a ramsey plus membership

you don't have to stay exhausted you don't have to be overwhelmed you can win

with money to start your free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33 789 text trial to 33789

george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five riley is in minnesota hi riley how are you oh not too bad how are you doing dave better than i deserve what's up

okay so my question is kind of a two-parter so i'm gonna try and keep it as short as possible um when i took um personal finance my

junior year of high school my personal finance teacher actually showed us your classes for her class to help prove like reinforce for point and in my when i was junior i was not very

smart and i thought you were actually quite arrogant and i didn't take your advice but now my grandparents recommended i started listening to you again and now i'm feeling really arrogant and stupid the table's turned well that's okay me too brother i understand that's exactly what i would have done in high school i like you if i had watched me in high school i would have been making fun of me

that's exactly what i was doing unfortunately because now i feel like i've put myself in quite a bit of a pickle what'd you do um well to start i don't this is gonna make

your jaw drop i don't use uh debit card

or cash i strictly use credit cards okay

what's your question for today let's try it that way my question for today okay um i guess like for the first part would be um with how i use actually else gets the big problem is i am 20 years old and i

bought my house when i was 19 years old

on a 5 down payment and a 30-year loan

okay and i was wondering what should what should i do are you having any trouble making the payments no that's not the problem it's just you

after watching i've been watching your videos again for about five days now and you recommend doing a 15

what is your income my income um do you want that from my main job or from all sources all sources

about 40 000. good for you good for you okay um well here's the thing what's the interest rate on your mortgage uh three percent fixed okay you don't have to do anything with this mortgage you just need to get yourself on a plan and just you can pay extra on it without refinancing it and if you pay a 30 like

a 15 it pays off in 15.

so you haven't you haven't ruined your life you're okay okay yeah that was just my biggest concern is because when i bought the house i thought of it in more of a

mathematical thought process i guess you could say it because the house is a i bought it under market value because the area i'm in the houses are roughly 150 000 to 250 000. i got it for 110.

and i figured if i spread it out over the next 30 years with inflation that 112 000

will be hundred and something thousand and the house plus interest will be a hundred and sixty thousand so i thought if that plot was if i paid out the full thirty years i'll end up saving money through inflation because 30 years from now i'm going to be paying the same amount but with money that's technically worth less than it is now yeah but not really and here's why okay the house is going to go up in value due to inflation whether it has a mortgage or not

these are independent equations these equations are not interconnected and so you don't have to have a mortgage in order for the house to go up in value and so what if you had it paid for and it went up in value oh now we've got the formula on how to be a millionaire yeah and to the credit card thing he he wanted to make it clear that

he uses no debit cards in cash only credit cards there's other pieces to this equation that you've got to figure out obviously the mortgage is not syncing you financially but i am worried about your mindset when it comes to debt and so this is something i want you to really take a hard look at and go what other areas am i willing to have payments on because right now you're willing to have

the credit card payment i don't know if you're paying it off i don't know what other kind of debt you may have but i think we need to change our mindset here because you're 20 years old and you're good at math but you're not great at managing money and so i want you to get better at the second part and then the math will help you going forward

so you're doing great riley obviously you made uh a little ouchie here but it's not sinking you and your income is only going to go up and as it does i want you to pay that mortgage off i don't know why you wanted to hang around for 30 years that made you made it very clear like well in 30 years no i want this thing gone in five

10 15 years because you have a life to live and i don't know about you but i don't want a mortgage when i'm 50 years old well you're getting ready to be done with yours yeah i'm 32 and then we're paying it off in the next four or five months and i'm saying sayonara and i wish i was like you riley i was really good at math and really bad at money management and once i realized that there was a difference between the two it changed everything so go through something like financial peace university maybe now that uh your arrogance has gone away maybe it'll stick this time and you'll listen to grandma and grandpa because they've got a good head on their shoulders it's just common sense you're fine man uh you didn't do anything that most of us haven't done or wouldn't do the trick is to um learn and change because continuing to do the same thing over and over again expecting the different a different result is the definition of insanity mark is in peoria hi mark welcome to the ramsey show thanks for taking a call dave sure what's up hey uh i'm 60 my wife's 65.

i uh five years i'd like to be retired or semi-retired i have no pension no 401

no so-called retirement fund but i have accumulated and that's my business uh we've got 32 rental properties and i'm in the process of selling them uh a month ago i sold

well one of my last ones i sold i took that money paid the last three mortgages off uh a week ago uh close on another one so i've got about 70 000 sitting in the bank and um i've always been confident in the properties that i've bought and i know the business but i would like to start buying mutual funds and i'm out of my comfort zone

and i guess i'm terrified to you know i've watched uh american greed over the years and you've always talked about smart investor pros that you have but uh that being said um i'm out of my comfort zone and um i'm a little skeptical or scared of

starting to put the money in mutual funds wow how much these 32 houses so far would you get you should have more than 700 well no no well i mean we live i'm in the midwest midwestern part of the country all right i tell you what you hang on through this break we come back we'll talk about it see what's going on and see if we can help you with this process this is the ramsey shack

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still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry it's worth it

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with mark in peoria illinois he just sold 32 rentals thinking of putting the money into mutual funds but he knows real estate at 65 years old is comfortable with that and is scared about mutual funds is that a fair summary what you told me so far yes i i haven't sold 32 i have 32. oh i

misunderstood the last few i've sold been in the 60 to 70 thousand dollar range okay they're now nice small well

maintained bungalows are ranchers usually so why are you making the decision to get out of the real estate business and into the mutual fund business well uh i'm tired of it there's with 32

properties there's a lot of maintenance i'm a one one-man show i pretty much do everything i've had one person helped me throughout the years and right now i haven't been able to get anybody to help me in the last six or nine months there's just nobody out there that will i can hire so you've got 32 individual single family homes yeah a couple couple two three you know a couple of duplexes

and three units mixed in there but majority of them are single family houses what's the total value of the whole portfolio uh which is just about everything uh including my house that i live in is about 2.1 million good for you well done

well done well thank you well i'm not sure that uh if i were in your shoes i would make the leap to 100 mutual funds from 100 real estate what i would consider is some different kinds of real estate you're in the highest hassle factor type

of real estate um and uh if you're if you're gonna i don't you're talking about selling the entire portfolio off right well i'm thinking three quarters really slow down i might consider buying a commercial property that's income producing whether it be an office building or something that has a lot less maintenance issue and a lot less hassle with the cl with the uh tenant issue

the number of times i mean i've got i've got several of both and the number of times i get a call from a commercial building versus we get a call i don't get a call but our our team does our real estate team does versus the number of times we get a call off a single family home is i mean commercials just about a tenth of the hassle

and so you could take you know three-quarters of these you know 20 of these houses at 25 of these houses and convert them into a different kind of real estate if you wanted to uh if you don't want to it's okay as far as mutual funds go it's just like real estate the first time you bought a piece of real estate you didn't know what you were doing

it was scary all right the more you did that real easy the more you did it the more you became familiar with it the more you studied it the more you knew the neighborhoods the more confident you became in real estate because of your knowledge level and so mutual funds are going to be the same way click on smart vester at

ramseysolutions.com get with the smartvestor pro they have the heart of a teacher that's why we use that measure as one of the ways we vet them whether we will endorse them or not they have to have the heart of a teacher because i don't want people putting money in something they don't understand because you are always scared then so

you need to begin the process of learning a whole new type of investing and just work on it and just learn and you can wade in you don't have to go all in at one time there's nothing driving this except you're just tired of fooling with rental property yeah and hopefully i don't know that his income if all these rentals are producing that income but if you get rid of three quarters of your rentals that might be three quarters of your income

so just be thinking about that if it's tied up in mutual funds mutual funds you can pull the income off yeah i mean you can you can income it can produce you you put two million dollars or million dollars in mutual funds it should produce a hundred thousand bucks yeah know you don't have to leave the growth in there you can pull it off so he can live off of

the income there just as well but the truth is the real estate's gonna make more money than mutual funds but it does have a higher hassle factor it has more you know more to do and you've got to get out of the business of doing the maintenance yourself that's just not a good long-term plan that just steals your joy it just you know when you start out it's like kind of cool

because i got a hammer on my belt and all this but yeah real quick that crap gets old i know how to do it all but i'm not doing it all all right let's go to jordan and lee in albany new york they are debt free leah

hi guys how are you hey you doing good how much have you paid off so we paid off a hundred and five thousand dollars in about three years good for you and your range of income during that three years so we started off at forty thousand dollars and we wound up at a hundred and seventeen 117 000 at the end good for you wow what do y'all do for a living

well i'm a dietician and then i'm a special education teacher cool well you definitely increased your income during this time what was the 105 000 worth of debt so we had a loan uh to lea's parents we

had a loan on a bmw we had leah's

student loans and then we also had my student loans whoa okay and uh making 40 grand

yeah to start with yeah they were working with one income at the time yeah and and that beamer is just looking at you in the driveway yeah it was nice but it wasn't that nice yeah really so so what happened 36 months ago that put you guys on this journey well we uh we got engaged really is sort

of where that boiled up i had known about you for years and when marriage was on the table you know it was time to get serious with the finances

who had the beamer jordan who had the most student loans uh jordan as well also me yep she's very quickly been paying them off for a while okay so uh that see i was still accumulating when we got married ah okay good very good how'd you get connected to our plan

well um i had heard about you when i was

in college just listening to christian radio and uh your show would pop on every now and then and i found it fascinating so i didn't necessarily take all the principles and apply them but i listened to the advice and then when time came to

get serious about it i knew where to turn wow way to go you guys wow so uh what did you do to get out of debt what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is well the first thing we paid off our parents debt first

and then we sold the beemer that'll do it that'll do it so are the parents are both sets of parents off in the background just cheering you on certainly yeah yep um we had a little bit of skepticism but also a little bit of uh cheering on okay healthy mix that's a good thing that's good who are your biggest cheerleaders so i'd like to give a shout out to my brother robbie who was definitely a cheerleader in

the process and is going through the same process himself all right yeah and then other than that we we cheered each other on and we kept each other honest with it yeah and uh field it that way well congratulations on your success we're really proud of you we're cheering you on for sure well done how's it feel now that you're free it feels good i was expecting almost to have um more freedom with money

but there's also goals that we have now the next baby steps so i don't just get to spend my money on whatever but yeah but cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status of choice right so they lived it there we go this is real i love it you guys well done yeah you'll get whatever car

you want later you drive like no one else later you can drive like no one else you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else so you paid a price to win congratulations will you go back in debt no never absolutely not okay had all this fun you want then good well way to go you guys we're very very proud of

you got a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and encourage someone to get their journey started and we've also got a copy of the legacy journey and uh

that's for you guys because that's the next chapter in your story to change your whole lives your family tree you're in the process of doing that very well done you'll be baby steps millionaires before we know it you'll be calling in to talk about that so congratulations all right jordan and leah in albany new york 105 000 paid off

in 36 months making 40 to 117. count it

down let's hear a debt free scream

three two one we're debt-free

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you gotta love it well done you guys

well done this is the ramsay show

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george campbell ramsey personality host of the new podcast on the ramsey networks called the fine print 10 episodes of things that you might or

might not know are not a good idea and george will explain it to you the one that came out this week is on credit scores the dirty truth the dirty truth of the dirty fico score oh filthy dirty filthy filthy 50 50.

well when the uh when the whole thing is done the mortgage that you end up with does not need to be more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate and okay the ratio of ground to house can vary uh and you know if you're if you're buying a big track of ground obviously that you're probably gonna have a higher ratio of land cost versus house than you

would if you bought a simple lot and built on it a subdivision lot generally is going to be around 20 of the total price

if you buy you know a standard subdivision lot if you spend you know 100 000 bucks on a how on a lot you're gonna drop about a half million dollar you're gonna have a half million dollar project total so about four hundred thousand on the house that's about that's a fairly standard ratio but it's not a rule and there's nothing wrong with it being different if you want to buy a big track of ground

and build a small house on it because you wanted a farm type setting there's nothing wrong with that at all that doesn't mean you did something yeah we're quite a bit ways out of st louis and uh so we're going to be buying a three acre track of wood and then we working the ground and building our dream home on there cool good yeah so uh we're hoping to get

the land for about 60 000 and then uh build our house on that so i know yeah the ratio between land and house

mean it what are you thinking you're going to spend on the house on the construction uh you know we're hoping you know between you know 400 000 i think that's what we're going to be comfortable with after after getting the land um so that's about that's about a 20 ratio again you're not far off of that yeah so um you're a little higher on that but it's not it's not

the other world everything you're saying is fine i mean um in some cases you may be in you're in an area where the you're far enough out that the land cost has gone down you're three acres for 60 grand anywhere in america that's a pretty good deal you know and so um where where abouts

outside of st louis are you effingham illinois oh yeah absolutely yeah we've got an affiliate there yeah very good yeah uh yeah so we're just looking to buy a little check to land and start our start our dream home absolutely i don't see anything any reason not to do it as long as when you're finished 460 000 is on a mortgage on a 15 year would depend on how much cash

you put into the deal but your net mortgage cannot be more than a fourth of your take-home pay should not be more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fix because otherwise you end up house poor yeah and we experienced that we we did an episode on the fine print on the housing gold rush and we talked to people who got into these houses we've taken calls where people go dave i'm 50

of my take-home pays going towards this mortgage and it's crushing me so that's it really comes down to the ratios and math on this where you can breathe and you have margin to attack your other goals and invest and give and do all these things to where the house payment isn't bearing down on you it's a big deal all right matthew's with us in little rock arkansas hi matthew how are

you doing well how are you sir better than i deserve what's up oh not a lot i just want to start off by thanking you and the team for everything y'all do a few years ago i was able to make a jump into doing um my dream business from my day job and i would have never been in one position to do that if it weren't for

the principals y'all teach so the value all you all bring is uh awesome and i'm forever grateful well thank you sir yes sir down to my question um my wife and i have a three-year-old son we are starting to want to talk about a college fund getting together we're wondering about the difference between a 529 plan and a custodial account both my wife and i have been to college however kind of went

the budget route and if my son ever did want to do anything outside of college business oriented like we do i would want him to be able to convert that and i was just curious on your thoughts of the 529 versus the custodial account

well um even as mad as we are about the student loan debt and some of the ridiculous decisions people are making in the education world

we're not against education around here and so um you know there's no shame in going into the trades at all and sometimes you're going you're a diesel mechanic a welder can make more uh than somebody with a master's degree in sociology right now and so um you know you have to be careful about your decisions on your career path and what you spend to become

whatever it is you're going to become uh and so no there's no shame in any of that all of those are valid careers uh you've got to decide that but um but i will tell you this spending some money on knowledge is going to be a good thing for this kid whether you whether it's a classic higher education four-year degree or whether it's a community college or whether it's an associate's degree or whether it's a trade school of some kind that they're plugging into

so all of that can be used for the 529 the 529 gross tax-free the custodial does not

that's it that's the big difference uh the custodial does have an interesting feature in that you control the money until they're 21 you do not in

a 529.

interesting okay you control it only until they're 18 in the 529 and so if

during that three year period of time they continue to have no brains um then you can have more say in it if they have if it's a custodial account uh when our kids were growing up the 529s and esa's were not there so we did custodial accounts okay and um so i'm not afraid of them and and since it is basically the mutual fund people don't know what that means anytime

you open up a a bank account in a kid's name of any kind mutual fund or otherwise it's a custodial account because you cannot do contracts until you're 18 so you cannot open an account so basically you're opening an account in their name but you are the custodian you're the one doing the transaction and so if you open a savings account at the bank if your 16 year old has a checking account at

the bank it has you on it as a custodian because they cannot legally do that in any state you cannot do contracts in the state so and when you open an account you're entering into a contract so these are all custodial accounts but when you open a custodial account with a mutual fund company you the the money is in the kid's name

technically from a tax standpoint and so until it makes enough money to go past their standard deduction there's no taxes on the account so the account can grow to pretty good size because it's not going to make enough return to even be taxable so it's going to grow tax-free for the first big chunk of time the custodial account will but the 529 um i like the fact that

it points them towards knowledge and points them towards education because even as mad as we are about student loans and the stupidity in the higher education world we still want to point people towards education higher education trade school education education of some kind no education is not the answer to the student loan problem yeah and with the the esa or the 529 i love that tax-free growth

and you can pass it on it can go to a different family member there's a lot of things you can do with that even if they don't go the traditional route but that growing from three years old to 18 that's a massive growth even if you're putting in a little chunk of change every year a thousand dollars 2 000 15 years so if you're watching this kid

and as he ages uh he's less and less

likely to be higher ed more more likely to be starting a business or something else um you know you may want to divert and put less into the 529 and open a custodial as its twin sister to run with it that would be fine to have some money in each uh but i i there's something positive about going this is your college fund that's your college fund you're brainwashing them

the whole time they're going to college uh this is your college fund that's your college fund that's your college fund mine looked at their college fund and helped me calculate the mutual funds when they were 12 and 10 and so it kind of there's kind of this assumption that well there must we must be going to college and so it's a good thing and i'm glad i'm glad that my three kids

and i and my wife all have four-year degrees i think that's a positive thing you just want to do education in a smart way where we've somewhat lost our minds in this country there was a lot in that side and i you'll find out why when borrowed future launches tomorrow as a feature full-length film yeah there's documentary coming out check it out on apple tv google play google play

and um

amazon prime amazon prime thank you very much george and borrowed future.com you can rent it there as well this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermzyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your

[Music] story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host thank you for joining us america we are so glad you are here open phones at

triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five

five two two five george campbell joins me as my co-host today he is ramsey

personality and host of many of our podcasts on the ramsey network including the new one the fine print which is uh

extremely popular be sure you check it out a new episode dropped this week on uh the credit score debacle it's a

big one it's a big one yeah anytime you can do something where everyone in america thinks they're measuring their money by your score you've done a big job it's impressive it is impressive i mean when you were growing up that that was not a thing people weren't measuring their lives against a number yep and now they are

d is with us dee is in kansas city hi dee how you doing hey dave i'm doing great thank you for taking my call sure what's up

well um it's a little overwhelming um today i just got a check that um we

inherited um just right under two million dollars how much and

two million two million dollars wow who who left you this

well my mom and dad but my my dad worked really really hard and lived very conservatively and um you

would have never known it growing up wow wow way very long ago really what did that how long ago did he pass

um he passed about a little over a year then my mom

just passed um just not much very long ago oh wow wow

right together how long were they married yeah oh goodness 60 plus years oh my goodness

well i'm sorry for your loss that leaves a big hole in your life yeah but yeah it's just a lot to take in

and we just want to be wise um

it's just a lot all at once

you get all um of financial people that try to tell you do this do that and we just my head spinning to be honest um we've worked hard my husband and i um

hey my husband's retired and he's 62 and

i'm 57 and i work part-time what is your net worth before you got this check

um we have about let's see 1.4 million okay so you were already millionaires yeah but um this just kind of all just happened my husband retired and i mean we just been working towards this day let me tell you how you got 1.4 million

slow and steady

yes sir and you did it without all of these financial sharks that are swimming around you in circles right now like a jimmy buffett song yeah okay yeah we just plugged it on you know how you get rid of those sharks you shoot at them with a gun and they swim off i'm i'm being metaphorical okay i'm not saying don't really shoot somebody okay you you're in kansas it could happen but um yeah no the uh uh run them off unless they're your financial person that you're already we're dealing with run them off

okay gotcha yeah they're they're there for the wrong reasons at the wrong time they have violated their their lack of class disqualifies them goodbye

all right all right now then so rule number one slow down okay going fast is bad going slow is good a lot of peace in that in there yeah your dad moved slowly your dad moved slow you got to 1.4 slow and the way you're going to properly handle 2 million extra is slow calm down there's no rush there's no one in a hurry a tornado is not coming you're fine okay number two don't put money in anything

you don't understand

it's your job to understand it but guess what you were already a millionaire so you already understand how to manage wealth you were already managing wealth

but maybe you need to bone up on it just a little bit maybe you need to polish up on your skills a little nothing wrong with that okay with the extra weight of this extra responsibility so rule one slow down two don't put money in anything you don't understand three do not work with anyone in any field anywhere in the financial world at all for that matter anyone anywhere probably

but certainly in the financial field unless they have the heart of a teacher okay and the sharks that are circling right now don't have the heart of a teacher get rid of them all right 85 percent of the people in the insurance business in the investment business in the real estate business in the estate planning business are sales people 15 of them are teachers

you're looking for one of the 15 percent and i made that number up by the way but i'm pretty close all right so you have the heart of a teacher as your advisor they are not telling you what to do and you're expected to do it blindly because you're going to understand it before you do it and you're going to slow down can you handle one more rule

i sure can ask yourself before you do the investment before you make the move is this honoring to my father's memory

okay and the reason i'm having you do that is your dad was a hero i want you managing money like he did

and if you think he's in heaven smiling because you're smart then that's probably because you're smart

and if you're if you invest in something you go my dad is up there shaking his head going uh uh uh uh uh that one's stupid and then you know you're doing the wrong thing right that's correct yeah because your dad was unassuming and steady and wise consequently proverbs says a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children

that's your dad okay if you do those four things kiddo you're going to be just fine george what do you want to add one no i just want you guys to start dreaming about what this does for you because what it does it gives you freedom and it gives you options and so start dreaming about what you want to do to make this a blessing i don't want

it to give you anxiety i want it to to give you that feeling of what could we do with this money do we want to uh you know there's three things you can do give save spend where do we want to give a portion of this how do we want to spend some of this and enjoy it and how do we want to save this or put

it towards other goals maybe you want to buy investment property or do something absolutely wild you have the freedom to do that now hey dee you're more able to handle this than you think you are you already had 1.4 million you're not dumb you know more than half the people that are purporting to give you advice trust your instincts you have good instincts this is the ramsay show

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if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 000 about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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[Applause] george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show if you've ever wondered if an online will is right for you if you need a trust do you need a mirror image will what kind of powers of attorney do you need well you hear me say everyone needs a will but i get a lot of questions asking if a simple online will is right for someone's specific situation with those questions in mind our team built a quiz to help

you find the right option for you the quiz gives you custom results based on the basic info like if you're married or single where you live even if you even the size of your estate it helps you understand exactly what you

need for your specific situation and everyone needs a will take the quiz to figure out what kind of will you need to protect your family and your wishes text the word quiz to 33 789 it's free check it out for yourself if an online solution works for your situation we'll send you a promo code for 20 off your will with our ramsey trusted provider

text quiz to 33 789 quiz to 33789

our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from chris in tennessee with covid cases ramping up again i'm wondering how to prepare in case

we have lockdowns again my profession isn't one where i can work from home what steps can i take now to protect my family in case i'm not able to work for several weeks

interesting well uh i don't like people going into paranoia uh about what could and and what ifs but several weeks sounds like something that could be easily covered with an emergency fund where if you for some reason got laid off fired you'd be taken care of for

three to six months yeah but it sounds like there's more behind this question than just a financial question yeah there's he's afraid um and rightly so um because we've all had our uh world uh turned upside down and shaking like a freaking snow globe so um you know we don't know what's gonna happen next and it's not even the disease you worry about all the time it's whether the government loses its mind or not um and

well that's not even in question anymore but the um uh it's just a matter on from state to state locality to locality how much crap you're gonna get so he's in tennessee so he's safer than most yeah he's probably very safe in that regards um

huh the thing about the stuff we teach george while we get criticized for it to be um overly simplified or one-size-fits-all or primitive or not for people with money it's only for broke people or whatever we get all these you know these critics on this stuff and um the reason they're wrong is not because we're smarter or something like that the things we teach are common sense biblically based financial principles and the interesting thing about these principles is they work during

times of crisis and they work during times of prosperity

they're the only set of principles that work during both times

and so if you're out of debt principle number one you have money in savings for an emergency principle number two you're living on a plan principle number three you are not self-centered so that you're generous principle number four you're

surrounding yourself with like-minded people principle number five uh you're diversified spread your portions to seven years to eight for you do not know when disaster may come upon the land ecla ecclesiastes says in the bible diversification is a biblical concept it's also a financial concept but you know you know we're going to live on less than we make we're not in debt we're not co-signing debt debt's off the table we're investing wisely

what you are then is you have gone the slower route and you have built the brick house like the third pig and so my answer to chris is be the third pig you remember the three little pigs right the first two little pigs got their house blown down by the big bad wolf called pandemic and then he came over to the other little pig who had a lot of money in the bank and no debt and they blew any huffing puff then he went to somebody else's house and um they said no bacon here buddy

and so uh you know that that's the story we all remember it right so be the third pig we're gonna need to print up t-shirts be the third pig right and so if you're the third pig you are prospering during wonderful times and you're prospering during the pandemic and it has a tendency when you're not broke

to help you avoid paranoia because this one sounds a little bit paranoid yeah and i think a lot of this

is fear and we dealt with this you know during the pandemic we realized we were in a position to go we need to help people not just with money but with fear and what was what was the antidote you found to fear in the last 18 months we were quoting dr john deloney the whole time facts are your friends when you're in the middle of a crisis facts are your friends not feelings

so we need to go to reality here and so you know the truth is chris if you're in tennessee if you get out of your house and walk around you're not going to see a society that is shut down by covid uh even though there was a slight spike in cases which now are back down but um

you're not going to see facts before your eyes that match your words on this paper the facts are your friends feelings are not your friends and worry is a feeling paranoia is a feeling concern over observable craziness and stupidity is a fact and that's okay to be that i'm that

i don't know what's gonna happen next you know who knows what their people are going to do and i truly am more concerned about an out-of-control government than i am the disease both are scary uh one of them though is not um well anyway it's just yeah so you just if you'll get out of your house and walk around sir and get out in the sunshine and exercise

you need some vitamin d and um walk around see human beings interacting that are not freaked out they're not scared they're they're i think you're going to have a different conclusion into your situation but to answer your question about worrying be the third pig because these principles work in good times and they work in bad times george i remember um 2008 when the housing bubble burst when

the hedge funds had securitized subprime mortgages and stupidity had run amok and wall street brought the american real estate market to its knees with it the stock market stock market dropped in half bush is transitioning into obama neither one of them could find their butt with both hands at the time and um it was a disaster i mean it was scary and i i remember distinctly i was on fox news

i was in new york and i finished cavuto's show kavuto and i've been friends for years and cavuto is very very smart neil's a very bright man we've known each other 20 years probably and we're between breaks and

the octaves in his voice had changed he was scared because we're watching that red ticker tape go across the dadgum thing you know six feet tall across the side of the new york building and the stock market's going down gold prices are going up all these volatility signs are not good and he said you think we're going to be okay and i said i know we're going to be okay

and i went and sat down there's a steakhouse right across the street from there and sharon and i left the fox green room went across sat down ordered a steak and i'm looking at that dadgum ticker tape and suddenly that chill went down my spine and i thought i wonder if we're gonna be okay and sharon and i were talking about it that night at dinner and

we said why are we not scared because everybody else at that point was in freak out mode i mean we had

congressmen that were like crying on the television because they couldn't get the stimulus package passed you remember the stimulus package you know that kind of crap they were going crazy and it was just like this panic literally their voice octaves were changing and i said why are we not freaked out she said it could be our faith and i said well sometimes christians get afraid what's i mean you're not christian

i mean you don't get afraid and she said well could be we've got several million dollars in the bank of no doubt oh well that could be that that might have something to do with it

be the third pig chris be the third pig this is the ramsay show [Music]

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george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage joy is with us from san diego california hi joy how are you i'm doing good how are you welcome to tennessee so good to have you how much debt have you paid off about a hundred and six thousand dollars how long did that take about 45 months good for you and your range of income during that time about 59 to 85. good

for you what do you do for a living by day i am a buyer i work in supply chain and i do a lot of other things on the side okay whatever it takes huh good for you well done what what kind of debt was the 106 000 that you eliminated i had

student loans there was a car some school loans from family members i had a nine dollar library fine that i didn't know about and a handful of credit cards i can't believe you had a nine dollar library fine that's just straight to the top of the desk i thought you know i thought and i thought joy was gonna be one of the good ones and then i found out

she had a nine dollars was it one book can you tell us that was it worth it it was one book and it was four years old and they never even told me i had a fine oh there you go see that's how they do you oh we're at the library they're that way joy good for you that's amazing

well done you've been at this a while almost four years you've been hustling and grinding to get through this congratulations that is quite and sticking with anything that long's a great task but you've been at it so what started this ramsay journey of you getting out of debt so i was already wanting to get out of debt because i i'm an ordained pastor and i can't do that job as my full-time job with a 900 student loan payment oh there's that there's that and so i

i was working a plan and it was not working my plan was no good and i started following somebody's budget workbook and i decided to do it on my blog because nobody knew like people knew i had student loans but nobody including me knew how bad it was and so i did the first page of the workbook and it was to total up all your assets and all your debts

and i wrote a blog post about it and a friend of mine saw the post and sent me the link to her debt free screen and said this might be motivating for you if you listen to this podcast and so i listened and my first debt free screen that i heard i was sold and a few weeks later that other workbook kind of went out the window

and everything the credit cards are gone and everything's gone from there yeah wow good for you good for you wow that's fun i love a good friend that says this might be encouraging to you that's different than yeah listen to this you're stupid i got i got both kinds of friends but this might be encouraging to you that's nice yeah that's really nice well done very well done

so joy tell me this what was the what were the sacrifices that you made you said you were doing a lot of stuff on the side to bring in some extra income what were the sacrifices that caused you to pay off six figures in under four years well i worked a lot

of saturdays doing websites and ebay and

not going hiking and not doing things with family and friends i did some things did some free things but i said no to a lot of things in that process

a lot of really interesting dinners [Laughter] very creative what was the worst interesting dinner i don't know that any of them were like bad but people would give me food people were really supportive and would give me food and so i'd have to go find how many lentil recipes do you know

wow oh that's wonderful they would just donate you food yes oh when we were getting out of debt we were broke sharon would make tuna fish sandwiches and i would put them in the refrigerator at the office and by the time i got them out of the refrigerator at lunch they'd be soggy when i smell tuna fish this day it makes my net worth go down i it's it's broke people food for me

you know and you get a smell off of something that's broke people food that you equate with this time you'll never be able to eat it again it runs it it just ruins it so it's not it's not diet food it's broke people food so it's just like oh man that's cool that's fun good for you what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is

you did an incredible job by the way so i have three one is the budget but really actually looking at the budget like week to week because my tendency would be to have a budget and then do my spending and then come back to the end of the month and go what happened like it didn't follow it right and so or you get sloppy you lose you didn't

you forgot you spent money there yeah and so for me like i have to try to touch it every week and look at it make sure my receipts are entered and keep track of things week to week because if i don't touch it i get sloppy perfect the second one is that sharing takes away the shame i heard somebody say that once that's good but if i hadn't shared

on a blog post four years ago like i wouldn't be here

because i wouldn't even know yeah right but then there's this whole other piece of it's not something that i have to be afraid about somebody finding out that i've got this mountain of debt because everybody knows i'm destroying this mountain of debt i am a girl who pays off debt and so um

i am joy who pays off debt it's like you know you kind of pop the balloon and then there's no longer something for somebody to find out that's like this bad thing it's just it has no power over you anymore yeah um

and and the third one is you really have to cut up the credit cards i paid off all my credit cards in 2012 and then i paid off all my credit cards in 2018. see what happened here

i see a friend yeah so i know a lot of people who tell me they want to do the points thing or whatever and they are adults and they can make their own decisions but for me that was i was not going to do that a third time no it was done there's a youtube video with evidence they're all gone i had to put an end to that yeah yeah that's good that that's very smart it's very wise there's something that happens

when you burn the ships yep you can't go back cortez right and so yeah it changes the whole uh changes the whole thing and you go okay i'm really going to do this i'm going to have to live on a budget because i don't have a plastic crutch anymore right and i'm going to have to i'm going to have to have my emergency fund because i don't have a plastic crutch anymore

and um it forces you to to finish up and get rid of any ish

that you were doing it's no ramsay-ish you're going to you're going to be pure down the line and that that when you do all that you're exactly right that's that's when you see the results do i trust god or do i trust a credit card to get me out of an emergency who is your provider who's your provider master card who named that anyway yeah or god there you go that's very good powerful powerful well done joy

good job who were your biggest cheerleaders sounds like you had a bunch of them i had a bunch of them now there were some people that thought i was insane when they saw the video of me cutting up my credit cards yeah that's good that was that was nuts but broke people are making fun of your financial plan you are right on track but my my family has been amazing i'm

part of a writers group the acfw in orange county and two churches that i've been part of during this season coast city church in oceanside and citywide mosaic in temecula yeah and these people

cheered me on and wouldn't let me pay for food and gave me hand-me-down clothes and gave me massive amounts of things to sell on ebay like i didn't go and buy things to sell in my ebay store people just kept giving me it just kept coming when i was done i had to clear it all out of my house because there was still so much stuff yeah

so mosaic erwin mcmanus uh no it's citywide mosaic and temecula okay so it's different than mcmanus yes okay all right because he's got his called mosaic there too all right cool very cool good for you well done well done well done well done man she's impressive very i don't think there's any stopping joy no she's going to cut up anything that comes her way

[Laughter] that'll work well i mean once you set your face towards something and um you know there's something about the power of confession uh it takes away you know nothing has secrets have power over you

but when you when there aren't secrets there's no power and so you know i've often said uh you know once i went broke i got over worrying about what you people think and so my failures are my biggest part of my brand yeah so i just kind of relish in them because it's kind of who we are i've got a phd in the umb and if you don't like that shut up you're wrong so all right joy way to go 106 000 paid off 45 months make it 59 to 85.

this is how it's done

45 months coming to that moment that is true joy yeah literally and figuratively this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day philippians 1 27 whatever happens conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of christ then whether i come and see you or only hear about you in my absence i will know

that you stand firm in the one spirit striving together as one for the faith for the faith of the gospel babe ruth said never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five hayden is with us in oklahoma city hi

hayden welcome to the ramsey show thank you how are you dave better than i deserve what's up so i'm 25 my wife and i just got done

paying off some student loans great don't quite have our emergency fund set

up yeah you know where it should be yet uh but you know i'm a planner so we're sitting talking with um you know the companies we work for and then some financial advisors in the area about setting up a 401k and ira and stuff so my company so the question i have in my company only matches up to half a percent so i'm wondering how much i then

you know take out for that side and how much i go to the

my financial advisor uh with a just regular irv so if in the baby steps you said you almost have that emergency fund ready to go once you're at baby step four then we're gonna put 15 and you're wondering how do i do that in what order uh because of this half percent match and we like match the best so match is gonna beat pretty much everything out

there because it's free money we're gonna follow that up by going to that roth ira that you mentioned and you can max that out uh followed by going back to the 401k and you said you and your wife are looking into what options she has uh and it won't make a difference as far as 15 is gonna be across your household income and so as long as you're you're doing that total across

it uh i don't know if does she have a match as well yeah she does and hers is um it's like up to three percent and then after three percent it um every other percent and then it maxes out five okay so you want to do all

matches first so let me let me back up you kind of have to back into this what george said is exactly right match beats roth beats traditional so that's your order of attack is matched to roth for traditional and roth can be roth 401k or roth ira either one

okay but a roth without a match does not keep up with a traditional with a match or a roth with a match either one so match is best now so just take your whole household income times 0.15 that's the number we're trying to get to okay then you do your half percent match and that gives you a number what's the number as compared to you deduct that from the 15 percent that not the percentage points but you say that let's just use a round number let's say you made a hundred thousand dollars so your number is fifteen thousand dollars you're trying to get to if you're half a percent is uh two is a thousand dollars now we got still gotta do 14 000.

every other 1 adds up to when we by the time we do all that to get all that match that adds up to out of your pocket

another 4 000 well now we're down to 10 000 okay out of that 15. and so you start spending off of your 15 000 or your 15

number uh first by match then by roth and then by traditional

george is exactly right that's exactly how you approach this and that's going to get you there but sometimes people it's a little bit confusing because it's like what it's a percentage of her income on hers and half percent of your income on yours and you're trying to how's that equate to the 15 percent well you can't mix it up because you got percentage of two different numbers

so uh you just go with an actual hard actual dollar amount the nominal figure the real number and then use that number to chunk out of until you get all the way down to zero yeah and it works the same way if he goes i'm going to do 15 out of my income she does 15 out of hers that simplifies it numbers wise and gets you to

the same place yeah uh but we might not do that because she might have a better match and we might end up doing a bunch of it over on her side yeah so you use the whole household number because if you if you split it up and you do 15 of her income and she runs down through that same formula match versus roth versus traditional uh you might miss out on

he might have a better match or she might have better if there's a big match exactly if one or the other has a match the other one doesn't you want to be sure you're chunking out the whole thing look at it holistically uh vishwas is with us in uh cincinnati

hi vis welsh how are you hi miss dave this is a great honor to speak to you thank you so much for taking the call sure what's up uh i'm a legal immigrant from india i make about uh 53 to 50k a year uh i have

eight thousand dollars in debt that is seven thousand dollars in credit card and a thousand dollars remaining in my personal loan that i took couple of years ago um i it's due to my visa restrictions it's a single household income i'm the only person out to work right now i i listened to your shows and i was trying to try and see if there's any possibility i could take up some additional work

and kind of reduce my debt i have already scrapped off all my credit cards i've just kept one just in case i needed because we might i did not have much of an emergency cash i have like close to 500 600 i just just to be on a safer side any

expenses it's a two-part question would you have any suggestions unless otherwise i take a different job uh or go back to my country i don't see any other ways i could tackle my expenses to become debt snowball and reduce the debt you have any suggestions for that and the main reason is that i'm also planning for a house because my family got bigger i have thirty five thousand dollars at my home country which

i could probably get it over here for my down payment but even even though i'm going to be staying here for only for two years because of these restrictions i'm not sure if it's an economically viable option to purchase off the house and because my family is getting bigger what's the probability of your visa renewal it's a work visa i assume yes sir it is so i would say it's probably close to 50 percent uh

because it's it's a different extension then it might be a different scenario so it's close to 50 percentage and you would have to at least go back to india for a period of time right that's right uh what i see like my wife

and me we just became new parents so the mental mindset is that if we head out of this country it would be for good and i don't she does not want to even come back here okay so she's indian as well yes yes okay all right cool all right no i would not buy a house okay it sounds like you're leaving and not gonna come back okay in two years there's not enough time to turn a house

and make a profit on it uh yes i would pull some of your money from your home country just pay off your debt be debt-free okay okay and then let's go ahead and pile up cash for your future in india

and follow your baby steps in india at that point uh because that's where you know basically you got a two-year stopover here is what you're telling me and a 50 chance of renewal um and if that does not if that renewal does not occur if it does occur how long is it extended for so that's the catchy part if it does occur uh it would be extension of every three years

so then it would be another three years after that what is the pathway to citizenship look like oh that's a very long processor it's like this process i'm talking about is a green card so i'm applying for the green card and it's due it's a work visa related green card the backlog for indian citizens is close to 10 to 12 years easily so uh i would still be able

to extend every three years and stay in this country but uh the green card i would get only after like probably 20 32 or 30 35 something like that wow okay i i don't i don't have much knowledge of that world uh uh just enough to ask a semi-intelligent question was all so uh that's that's shocking to me i'm sorry wow um well here's the thing you still work

the financial principles they work uh the only thing is you're probably going to step back from buying a house in this case it's not going to make sense yeah you said based on your income you feel like you couldn't pay this off and i just want to challenge you and tell you that you can and people make a lot less and pay off a lot more so

you absolutely can do this and you've got the money sitting over there in india so if you can use that to at least pay off this debt and create an emergency fund of three to six months that's going to put you in a really good spot as you at least finish out this visa yeah wow hey thank you for the call

sir it's honored to talk with you george campbell ramsey personality my co-host today good show george thank you always a good time nice job james and kelly in the booth as always i am dave ramsey your host this is common sense for your dollars and since we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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you

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## 209. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 14, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today as we talk about careers and jobs with him and life and so forth with me and

ken together this is launch day around

ramsey borrowed future the documentary is available as of now you can watch it on apple tv on google play and on amazon prime or borrowed future dot com if you're a teacher and you would like to show this student loan expose

to your students after they see it i promise you they will go to college without debt it will uh scare them straight

and we're here to stir up a holy ruckus it's what we do around here and i can promise you this uh this documentary will uh it's not gonna be some people not happy when they see that what we did to them yeah because we exposed the underbelly of some of these places that uh have been misbehaving for years and all shows

up in this documentary you will enjoy it it's riveting it's very very very well done borrowed future anywhere great docs are found

so ken the wall street journal reads the irs wants to look at your bank account on your next trip to the atm imagine that uncle sam is looking over your shoulder as if your annual tax filing wasn't invasive enough the biden administration would like to look at your checking account charles reddig the

commissioner of the internal revenue service wants banks to report annual cash flows for ordinary account holders

treasury secretary janet yellen is promoting the plan and the house ways and means committee is debating whether to include this mandate in the democrats 3.5 trillion dollar

spending bill mr ellen says the reporting will help to catch wealthy tax dodgers in a recent letter to the committee she said the plan would reveal opaque income streams that disproportionately accrue to the top

yeah the re the wealthy are evil and i'm sure they're all hiding their money in the bank you stupid woman seriously well this is uh this is unbelievable had had i not seen that this was an actual article i would have thought this was a spoof from the onion this is so unbelievably outrageous

that the federal government is kicking around the idea of being able to look into our bank accounts let me tell you something this is going to get nasty right here because uh there's there's always another way around every time government tries to move and pivot to take away our personal freedom uh people figure it out and i hope some bankers are paying attention right now because if

i i i i can you imagine something can you imagine that this would not help deposits that's what i'm saying it's going to disrupt and destroy an industry i got to tell you the irs plans to review every account above a 600 balance

or because that's the people that are these are the wealthy tax dodgers here well there's the catch it's not about wealthy people it's about everybody yeah it's about control again it's time for some pitchforks to come out i got a little bit of a little bit of a probably a couple of uh torches to go with the pitchforks yes it's also a privacy breach waiting to happen not long ago

the confidential tax records of jeff bezos mike bloomberg and other wealthy americans were exposed by pro-publica whoever leaked or hacked those records committed a crime but the irs has revealed nothing from its promised investigation adding bank account info to the irs trove would dis risk the disclosure of savings and spending information of political adversaries in the same way no that would never happen 23 state treasurers and auditors signed a letter last month opposing

the plan calling it one of the largest infringements of data privacy in our nation's history you think by the way watch this watch how this might just flood the cryptocurrency thing becoming an outside fringe thing to an actual everyday thing that's why this thing is out there i'm not endorsing it at all i don't do anything with it i want to be very clear but that's where

this is coming from because of this government overreach you watch it it's just gonna if this happens or even tries to happen it's gonna create a tidal wave of of mistrust and

all kinds of problems it's laughable it's so absurd it really is it's it's mind-blowing that that they think that this could actually happen yeah and and you know i would think that probably one of the more powerful lobbying groups even for democrats would be the bankers

abs that's why i laugh and i would think that they would put their big heel on this and grind because this is going to create um a lot of cost for them because they have to build systems to report this to comply this is like this is a billions and billions of dollars of cost for the banking industry yeah yeah the the this my god if you got 750

joe biden wants to know it oh yeah and first of all let me just say this i i have no this is opinion i just don't think this has any legs to it all it's so ridiculous but the emperor is officially not wearing clothes that's where we are right now this is such an unbelievable tradition yes on top of everything else he's taken his clothes suit needs ironing yes don't do that yes it does don't do that yeah it's just so absurd that this that this policy would even be floating but it's

you know it goes along with a lot of the covet overreach and some of these other things that are overreaching constitutional rights um and it's been going on for some time yes and uh just how much before people bow up on it um i think this would do apparently there's a weather problem with southwest air right now yeah weather the weather everywhere southwest air is flying is bad yeah and so uh they're struggling with weather and everywhere they land is a problem yeah so yeah this is gonna this has

these statements and policies and supposed

things even if you don't implement them if you just toss it out there like a trial balloon that has a grenade attached to it it still has implications that's a great point you know reverbs through these industries that's absolutely a great point dave this is a threat to privacy a threat right now it's a threat it's not an attack yet but it's a threat and i don't know

if there's anything more private than our bank accounts you start talking about people's money i mean we're talking you've been doing this for a long time we're talking crazy emotions around your money and the privacy of that yeah this is a threat to privacy that's what this is you know it's it's like a a banana republic where you can't trust the banking system so you have to keep your money under a mattress

and you have to stay off the grid because you can't it's not trustworthy they're correct why they steal the cheat and you know some of these crazy countries and if we're are we going to devolve into that with this kind of movement out of the federal government of course the good news is we've got a group of governors on several of these issues that are saying uh your overreach doesn't extend across our state line we're not going to allow

it and then we've got another group of governors that went oh yeah we're all in uh whatever you want to do we're with you big joe yeah this is out of control out of control the tyranny is uh is real

so yeah just let them poke around in everybody's bank account not to mention how much that costs not to mention how much you do but every time you get ready to move your money that you earned they want to know about it [Music] uh yeah we'll see how that works out this is the ramsey show [Music]

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life is full of firsts

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as the first and longest-serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verses

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[Applause] [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at

825-5225 michael's with us in tampa florida hey michael welcome to the ramsey show hey guys how you doing great man what's up hey so um i'm having trouble deciding if i need to take um this new job along with the challenges

the schedule would have with me and my wife um we just had like a big rent increase in the entire tampa bay area and the job was pos was going to pay me probably about eight grand more walking into the door and i wouldn't know if i should take the job why would you not take the job what are you wondering about um so i have a older child from a previous relationship

and she comes over every other weekend and it would disrupt my time with her as well as my wife and i are disagreeing about you know i have one son and um she wants him to play sports and i do too but by the games being on the weekend i wouldn't be able to be there and we've kind of been bickering back and forth about that and i'm trying to get her to hold off

you know to agree to hold off on it but

i'm having a hard time yeah so are you guys in tough shape financially to where this eight thousand dollar bump is really really needed how is it going to affect you guys if you don't take the bump besides all the relationship stuff i know that you guys recommend 25

um our rent shouldn't be that uh but i mean to take home pay and the rent increase will probably put it at about 30 percent

what do you make a year combined last year we made 98.

okay so you're talking about an eight percent increase or seven percent increase

and [Music] your dispute is you would be working every weekend yes doing what what are you going to be doing i'm a truck driver for dr pepper right now and i have a better opportunity at a food service distribution as a food truck driver okay and will you be working weekends then the rest of your life yeah because i have a friend of mine that works there

and i was communicating with him about it and i spoke with his direct supervisor and he kept it you know on he was honest with me he said this he said he's been working saturday for 18 years he says i hate it

you know and i just i have guys quit all the time because they have kids that want to you know play ball and they want to be there and they can't michael is it is it possible i just want to know what your opinion is is it possible do you think that you could find another job making 8 000

even more than 8 000 more where you don't have to work weekends

it's it's very tough um i've tried tanker and hazmat because i do have those endorsements on my license but those guys work saturday and sunday

and evening time i've turned down

countless jobs even up to paying 90 grand because they want you to work in

the evening and it's saturday and sunday are these all driving related jobs where you're driving yes yeah but again i want to put that question back to you i think you've limited yourself because you've got a background you may enjoy driving i think you have to open up your possibilities right here to say well wait a second i've got some experience and i've got some skill and it's very transferable

i can do a whole lot more than just drive a truck and you are making a pretty decent household income together but you can increase this i think you've got to open yourself up to what's out there and when you begin to look for those things you will see those things and you got to get busy on this because taking this job is not about the 8 000 bump you're gonna be very miserable relationally

because you're gonna miss your kid you're gonna put pressure on your wife to not let the kid play sports and all that stuff and that's just a bunch of relationship turmoil that is related to you boxing yourself into this is the only thing i can do and i think that's the challenge and to begin to see what else you can do that is a much different schedule that doesn't require

you work weekends the rest of your life this is a great market right now to be looking and you've got to just harness all of that negative energy and turn it into i'm going to look for something else that does fit my relationship goals as well because it's out there yeah and this is the moment um because

with all the stuff happening in the economy one of the issues is logistics meaning

delivery by trucks and uh we're you know we've got ships that they can't get into port because they can't get the trucks to put the stuff on and so i'm not suggesting you start driving over the road i'm just saying that truck driving is at a premium right now and so no i would not take this other job but no i would not stay where i am either that's correct and so i'm going to do what ken said i'm going to expand my uh the the color the page you're

coloring on is not big enough you need a bigger page and you need to draw a better picture of where your future is going to be uh hang on the line michael i would love to give him a code a link and a code to the get clear career assessment which is going to help you see things you've never seen before it's a wonderful tool take your lesson 20 minutes it'll help

you see purpose in your work but more than that give you some real possibilities you can see what you have to offer to this world because you've got a lot to offer mark is in los angeles hey mark welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up dave i have a legacy journey question my wife and i are on baby step seven

and we have a nest egg of about four million three million in iras and one million in a taxable brokerage account we'll live off the interest you know with the goal of preserving the nest egg as an inheritance for my daughters here's my question as we manage this nest egg i'm currently planning to deplete the money in the iras and grow the money in the brokerage account over time with a goal of leaving

the kids a portfolio that's a 100 brokerage account and no ira money so their inheritance isn't encumbered with any government strings or tax bonds or anything and what i wondered was is this the right strategy yes if so how you would recommend i manage it to achieve it yeah i mean you've got the idea and it's just a matter of drawing down on the thing uh fast enough to keep

uh you know that you hit the perfect mark right where there's nothing left except the uh brokerage account when you get to retirement so uh that your your money that you are generous with while you're alive to other things uh your money that you are

living off of all comes out of that ira because that is it doesn't create an inheritance tax the ira doesn't but it is taxable because it's a traditional ira it's going to be taxed uh as an inherited ira or inherited 401k uh and

so yeah you're right you you you're on the right track but there's not a magic number to it if you know when you're gonna die you can figure it out easy yeah right but you know just start to start running your numbers and and deplete it exactly at that moment but you don't have to worry about that if you can just minimize the damage or minimize the process that

they have to screw with the government by by using this strategy it's very very wise i think you're way ahead of the curve that's some really good thinking on your part really good thinking beautiful idea i hadn't even thought of that actually really no i haven't i may need to think about that myself well that's good that's kind of a nice thing i've done a whole bunch of other things to keep money off

the estate plan right uh from a state tax standpoint

but um but i haven't thought about that stinking 401k which is sitting over there it's a monster right so is it about the pace by which he has to draw it down there's no i mean well you've got to use it up because anything he doesn't use up is going to be taxed right but you could there's nothing that keeps you from pulling out of a certain sums at some point

and certain something i mean you can do it discriminately you're going to pay taxes on it he's going to pay taxes on it or they're going to pay taxes on it right you're not going to get out of the taxes but it's not a state tax it's income tax right on the 401k and um yeah this is one of those uh tax dodges that the wealthy do

this is why the rs irs needs to get in our bank account yeah this is exactly evil because we you know we worked our whole lives and we actually built up something of our own money and already paid taxes on it once and then they want to get us again pay your fair share you you full wealthy people evil wealthy person you

this is the ramsay show [Music]

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage don and paula are with us hey guys how are you good where do you guys live let me dream minnesota all right welcome to nashville

so good to have you how much debt have you guys paid off 135 thousand dollars way to go and how long did this take oh 26 months good for you and your range

of income during that time 148 000 to 158 000. good what do you

guys do for a living uh i'm a physical therapist i work for a large credit union okay very cool what kind of debt was the 135 000 uh we had three credit cards uh home equity lot of credit uh two vehicles a camper and a massive student loan oh man a big old student loan huh massive how long you guys been married 18 years wow

so what happened two years ago that put you on this ramsay journey we actually heard about you back in 2007 a friend of us had given gifted us your dvds uh we read them listened to them thought it was great at the time though we only had the massive school loan the mortgage so it just didn't stick fast forward life happened and uh

you know i paula paul always took care of the money so in 2018 you know all of a sudden she comes to me and says you need to quit going out for lunch well okay well thankfully i only live seven minutes from lunch or from work so i would go home and do dishes and laundry and go back to work not a big deal so a few months go by and she uh she says we need to cut cable we can't afford it we can't afford 100 a month oh

okay well begrudgingly i did so um in march of 2018 i'm working away and that morning i get a i get a phone call from her she was traveling a lot for work and she says you need to get out of this podcast we need to do this now and it was your podcast hopped on never looked back so we we took our credit cards from april and itemized everything and uh in the month of march dave we spent uh 1 225 out in restaurants

and 225 out in coffee shops wow i never

know where your retirement was going you were eating it never again no and we never looked back wow it was game on game over wow wow yeah you don't do anything when he jumps he jumps into the deep end that's right wow that's pretty impressive very cool so you went wide open then for the next two years yep game over these numbers are pretty impressive i mean you've been on beans

and rice yup yes we have i mean you had to have broke people making fun of you we had a lot of naysayers absolutely i bet you did still a lot of haters yeah unreal and um but now you're free and they're not so here we go look at me now how you like me now yeah i like it yeah good for you guys i'm so proud of

you thank you very very well done how's it feel to be free unbelievable it's it is absolutely crazy yeah i mean the emotion is all over you done and it's powerful stuff

where's that coming from is it the sacrifice is it the future is it all of it together that you're feeling in this moment well it's just the feeling in 2019 you know basically being normal living in an outhouse and now i'm in a penthouse kitchen's college funded retirement fully funded it's done i don't have to worry about money anymore it's over wow very cool wow so paula what do

you tell people the key to getting out of debt is now that you guys did it you know i think for me well a the budget because it was crazy

you know always being in charge of the finances and paying off the credit or trying to pay off the credit cards and we didn't have the money to pay off their credit cards and and then we did a budget and it's like holy crap we have

extra money to put toward this debt where did this come from well it wasn't going out to eat and the coffee shops and so

the budget was huge but i think the thing that made the difference in 2019 versus 07 when we initially heard about you was we had a why you know in 07 we didn't have the kids we didn't have to worry about college and now we have the kids and we

have a lake lot and the goal was to build a house at the lake lot and be able to do that when our kids are still with us and not out of the house and so i think it's having the budget but having that big why

so it sounds like you were handling the money obviously right and just kind of giving don instructions and uh the last instruction you gave him was uh listen to this podcast which meant that you no longer got to handle the money by yourself but you also didn't have all the weight on your own shoulders carrying all the decisions by yourself and talk about how important it is or how

you felt when your husband has put his shoulder up under there and lifted some of the weight off of you by making the decisions together it was it was huge i mean i was the one that always took care of everything and all of a sudden don is the one that's checking the bank account like 500 times a day you lit him on fire didn't you and he's like oh just

so you know i updated the budget i updated every dollar um and it's huge and and honestly it's so nice because i know that we're both on the same page you know because back in the day there were times where we would go out to eat and he'd be like oh you know i got this and i'd look at him like uh we don't we don't got

the money to got this now i don't need to worry yeah so great all right so so don you got on board right and it's obviously went all in okay absolutely what was the most extreme thing you did early on that you look back on now and you go this this helped me go from conviction and knowing that we have to do it to this got me really going

um you know there was an instance a couple weeks in where she had called me and she was down uh shopping with one of her sisters and she had asked me she could buy a sweatshirt and i said no you cannot buy a sweatshirt you can use one of my sweatshirts i have 12 of them that i never wear so you can go ahead and use one of mine

if you need a sweatshirt we do not need a sweatshirt wow the bravery to say that my man how did that go i want to hear the rest of that story well i told i was shopping with my sister she was in town and she's like oh paula this is really cute you've got to get this and i was like no that's that's not in the budget

and she's like oh come on paula it is a sweatshirt and i was like i can't it's not in the budget and she said fine i'll call up dawn i'll ask don and i said oh oh this is called you can ask don i know what he's gonna tell you he's gonna tell you no way and she's like he is not and she got off the phone

and she goes don told me you couldn't get the sweatshirt i was like i told you he was gonna say no

nice that's discipline though no that's it that's when listen if you live like no one else later you can live like no one else yeah and you know when you make 158 000 a year and you don't have any debt you can get a sweatshirt yeah by the way i would like to point out at this appropriate time don you should probably buy her a sweatshirt yeah one that one that says nashville on it while you're here she's earned it this woman earned a sweatshirt we're we're gonna we're gonna go all in on that i think so matter of fact ken's gonna buy you don't there it is hey why not with my money you guys are fun thank you so much congratulations we're very very proud of you you brought the kiddos with you what are their names and ages let's get them up into the shot we have garrett and owen who are 12.

mallory who is 10. all right very very

good most awesome very cool we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's a your next chapter in your story for sure you've changed your whole legacy guys as you said you've got a great why uh you changed your life for your kids and you changed their life in the process very cool stuff also copy the total money makeover for you to give away to somebody one of those people that was making fun of

you maybe maybe maybe we can help them out that's a good idea so very well done all right don and

paula garrett owen and mallory from minnesota 135 000 paid off in 26 months making 148 to

158 you are looking at life change right in front of you count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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that's how it's done right there baby yeah freedom [Laughter] it doesn't get any better hey listen when you work that hard and you sacrifice that deep you'll never go back no people never go back i'm not going to talk to them later they go well dave you know we sort of fell off and went and bought a car on a jet you're not going to hear that from don no don has changed he's done yes he is he's

stick a fork in him he's done yes this is the ramsey show

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so

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host open phones at

two two 825-5225 brian is with us in boulder colorado hey brian how are you

hey dave good how are you doing better than i deserve what's up well pleasure to be speaking with you um i wanted to talk to you about uh we

recently refinanced our home to a 15-year mortgage um but it puts us over your recommended 25 of our take-home pay it puts us more like 35 and just wondering if we should be looking for a cheaper home well here's the thing the whole reason for that ratio of 25 is for people not to sign up for something that causes them to be so pinched in their budget that they're tempted to go into debt for things

they should have been saving up for in other words if the house payment is pinching your budget so tight that every little thing that comes up looks like it's going to be a new debt then that's being house poor and that that's the thing so 35 doesn't kill you particularly if you are on a career path where you're going to see your income come up and it's not going to be 35 percent long for long it's going to be 30

and then later on it's gonna be 25 so i don't know that we have to panic about this but it's it's just a matter of don't do not be continuously engaging in

a process that that makes you broke that makes your monthly cash flow pinched and so you know as long as you have a good career path and you think you're going to see your income coming up i wouldn't panic and jump ship on it uh at this stage now if you're going to go buy a home don't do that okay don't don't go buy a home and take on 35 gold well my income's going to go up that's just that's

you know that's twisting my words that's not what i'm saying but you're already in a house are we going to sell the house move go through all that expense when in 24 or 36 months your ratios would have been all right anyway because your income came up no i'm not going to do that but don't go signing up for these things in the future that put you in a pinch that's

the whole point of the thing so ken the great resignation is underway

a lot of people 55 percent of americans one survey says are thinking about changing jobs actively right now couldn't be a better time for us to launch a book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to getting work you love i think your books timing might be just uh maybe the best i've ever seen yeah we we believe so because people are changing for a variety of reasons

so whether or not you just want to get promoted make more money you're doing what you really enjoy now you just want to move up get a bigger shovel to get through the baby steps or you're just showing up to a nine to five and you feel like you're just miserable when you pull up in the parking lot monday morning or you just want to find what is that meaningful work

this book really helps everybody who wants to work on purpose who wants more than a j-o-b who wants to make income and impact and the seven stages that we unpack in the book no matter who you are where you are will get you there and that's why we're so excited about it everybody knows that there's something they're supposed to do but they just wonder how do i get

there is it possible and the answer is yes there is a clear path yeah just a couple weeks before we ship these books or in pre-sale right now if you want a hundred dollars worth of extra items including the e-book including the um the uh audio

book including a whole bunch of other things go ahead and get the book now for 20 and you get over a hundred dollars worth of bonus tools resume templates and guides a video course that'll coach you through the interview process all of this paycheck from paycheck to purpose

at ramsey solutions go ahead and pre-order it now our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings with free samples free shipping and the new promos they run all the time you will uh well you save even more use the promo code ramsey

today's question comes from ahmet in michigan i'm 30 years old i work for a local credit union and we get quarterly reviews i've met expectation for my next review and i've upped my skill set i want to ask for a sizable raise after working really hard during the lockdown where half of my team worked remotely during that time one co-worker and i have been in the office whenever

it was open and i recently found out that one of my co-workers is making 15 to 17 000 more than me and when this person takes time off i'm responsible for making sure their tasks get done the only person who knows how much i work uh how much work i put in is my manager i currently work over 60 hours a week i do love my job in

the company i'm working for but it is hard when i know i'm putting in more work than everyone else and getting paid less well we've heard this question before and unfortunately this the psychology around this kind of information that you've gotten is really hard to overcome because you are now aware and you are comparing yourself and that is a very dangerous dangerous place to be in because

you can't do much about this in this situation when you go into your next review uh you know leveraging this information isn't going to help you i wouldn't do it what i would talk about is a growth plan i would lay out how much you love the company as you as you put in this email and that you want to be here and you want to grow not just professionally

but financially but you lead with professional growth what are some areas that i can get better in where i'm a little bit weak what are some skills some tools i can add to my tool belt that will allow me to a get more responsibility drive greater value b and

then c grow financially as well that's

the posture by which you approach this so that your leaders get some buy-in they see your hunger but also your humility and that's all you can do and if you've got healthy leadership they're going to respond and they're going to talk about a growth plan and then measure the growth that's tied to compensation if they are not going to address this and they kick the can down

the road this is a sign that it may be time for you to move on and where you see a ladder and not a lid yeah that's the thing and so there is nothing wrong with saying in my mind and you can correct me ken um

how can i add value that will make you want to give me more money because i'd like to see some more income but i want i want to be worth it yes instead of i deserve this because so and so that's right if you say i did i deserve this because 60 hours i deserve this because so and so you know the entitlement i deserve this thing um is uh one of the most negative

possible emotions uh that you can that you can generate and you've gotten yourself kind of down in that hole a little bit here yeah a little bit of a pity party going on in the email there oh sure and uh and rightly so but still you know it's a wrong posture for you to get ahead you're not supposed to know what your co-worker makes and this is why because it's almost impossible to not

deal positively with that and that's why i laid it out when you sit with your leader you don't ask for a raise you ask for a growth plan you lead with as you notice what i said first where can i get better what are some areas where you where you think i can how can i add value that once makes you want to give me if some i'm not

i mean i own ramsey solutions if you come in my office and i'm doing a review with you or whatever or we're talking or even you just came in randomly and said listen i i'd like to make more money and uh the way i want to do that is i want to be worth more how can i be worth more how can i add value versus i actually had a guy come in my office many years ago had more degrees than a thermometer overeducated fool

and said uh you know show me his resume you know a guy like me that has this many degrees we usually make like a lot more than i make now and i said well you know you're working a small business son and he said what do you mean i said well small business works like this your raise is effective when you are i don't give a crap about your degrees

when you do something i'll share it with you that's how it works in a small business but but you know i got a degree so i got or i got six degrees so you know what are you a black belt yeah i mean come on no so um that didn't that doesn't that didn't play in dave's office no and it won't play anybody else's either by the way exactly right not

because i'm a jerk it's just that's the way it is yeah open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five again this is launch day for the new documentary borrowed future is available any great doc where any great documentaries are seen for instance you can see it on apple tv you can rent it for 4.99 on any of these locations including app google play uh apple tv uh amazon prime thank

you there i know there's another one yeah i gotta decide which one i'm gonna watch it maybe i'll just do all three of them well we're number two right now we launched it this morning yes we're number two among documentaries on apple right now that's great so it's already coming out of the gate pretty strong and i got to tell you when you guys watch this thing you're going to tell everybody

you know they have to watch it it is amazing yeah so

proud of our team borrowed future how student loans are killing the american dream out today this is the ramsey show [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality host of the ken coleman show where he talks about careers and jobs in author of the number

one best-selling book the proximity principle and the new book from paycheck to purpose he is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five samantha is with us in

san francisco hi samantha how are you

hi i'm doing good how are you today better than we deserve what's up um well i wanted to ask you guys especially at ken about possibly giving me some direction on where i should go career-wise at this point i currently am

in an electrical apprenticeship it's actually the family trade a bunch of electricians but i'm starting to realize that it's not really for me i'm a single mom and so there's a lot of pressure when it comes to trying to balance that as well as balance this career as well it just seems as though i keep having these roadblocks you know put in front of me and so

it doesn't seem like i'm going down the right path and because i'm starting to feel that way i've been thinking about some other career options that might be good for me and i just want to make sure that if i do change careers that i do go down on the right path instead of you know walking down another path and realizing that it's not for me again sure uh what what's

the big idea there is there a leading idea in the clubhouse right now yeah well i mean i have two two ideas um

one of them is actually your idea i was thinking about being that i'm here in the silicon valley area going to betheltech and trying to get a certification with them to become a ux designer because there's a lot of open jobs for that here so that was one option and then if if nothing else mattered and i followed my heart it would be i would try to go do producing um

i really like the idea of that i did a lot of stage management in high school so i did a lot of the live production type management and background back behind the scenes type of work and you know i really do love that kind of work but i understand that that would take me getting a little bit more qualified in the professional setting before i could actually make that a career yeah what does that look like just fast forward real quick take me up

the ladder i have a good idea of that industry but you've got a better idea what would that look like if everything was just equal and we could fast forward you there you're making the money you want to make what would you be doing where would you be doing it yeah i mean i i love the idea of you

know the producing live events um i

thought a lot about doing professional stage management for a long time but i don't think that the purpose would really be behind professional stage management i'm in live theater so i was thinking more like live events that help people you know okay talk shows and that kind of deal okay so i'm glad you gave me that specific i want to encourage you on something there is a path to get to that um and i will tell you that uh

you're already qualified to do that you know the fact that you've done some production work in the background uh i mean excuse me in your background your career background you are uh qualified now if you've got the talent of organization and detail management you've got some good personal skills and connecting with people and you're a good coordinator is the word that's coming to mind you can do that

and you can get in if you do a great job you can do well in fact i've got a friend who lives in the nashville area who now he's been doing this 25 years who now gets called for just every la award show that you can imagine i see him on tv all the time he's a professional stage manager now that's more you know that's very cool yeah

so i just want to share with you that that's possible okay so now it's about i'm a single mom i want to get out of this trade that's not right being an electrician that's kind of not my jam i'm thinking about technology as a ux designer i got to tell you i like the idea of you moving into a good solid day job okay that takes care of

you and the child or the children and we got some great stability and then you begin to work uh live events on the side that's going to be some weekends maybe a little bit of travel but if you can travel some and get in that live event industry and as a contractor and we at ramsey solutions hire some not many but some live event producers you can get in that way

and begin to build it and with that technology background and degree and qualification i think it gives you i think it's both and i think that'll be a really nice stable path because you're going to have to build relationships over time and get in and then once you realize i'm in and i can make the income i need then i step into that so i think you've got either or uh

if you can make the connections now and get in the live event space and make what you need to make i'd say go now if you need to build up to that then i would look at technologies a very safe day job brian is in jonesboro arkansas hey brian welcome to the ramsey show hey ken it's an honor to talk to you you too i've always had a low self-esteem

and i

recently went through a separation and divorced how do i throw my net worth without confusing it with self-worth

well let me reverse that who builds a big net worth and what type of person builds a big net worth and confuses it with self-worth

not sure i would someone with a low self-esteem no no not at all no because low self-esteem is not you know you don't confuse network if you have a high net worth and a low self-esteem you're not you're not confusing it so that's not the case the person that becomes what we're saying is someone becomes wealthy and they become a jerk or they become power hungry or they become they think they're all that and so what they are is they're spiritually and emotionally psychologically shallow

they have no spiritual depth to their life they have no psychological depth to their life and let me help you with this a person who asks this question is not prone to that yeah the person i'm talking about would never ask this question they would never go i'm confusing my net worth with my self-worth i'm really i'm all that because i've got a million dollars you know that's that's that's somebody that made that confusion

and that's a shallow entitled little jerk you know and whether they're a 58 year old little jerk or 18 you're a little jerk but um you're not going to have that problem brian i i just hear failure all over you yeah you've been through such help sounds like some tough stuff and you're starting to question how valuable you are and so i think i'm going to give

you two practical answers to your question number one you need to get around some people who know you really well who can remind you of how valuable you are to them secondly i want you to just do a little self exercise and just begin to get to know brian again and ask yourself what do i do really well what have people complimented me on in my life

i think i messed that up i think he was saying i've got a low net worth so i think i have a low self-worth he is he's he's i was flipping it i went the other way well i was going where you're going he's struggling financially and in his relationships and he's going i'm having a hard time seeing if i'm valuable because i don't have any money yeah okay well your value is intrinsic your value as a person your value as a human has nothing to do with your money that's right

but that's just uh that's a normal transaction when you've gotten the crap beat out of you like you have with the loss of relationships and everything else so one other question i'm sorry i completely blew that no it's okay but brian here's what i want you to apologize into you oh i know but i'm just saying it's okay but brian here's what i want you to do

i want you to find some people to add value to volunteer go love on somebody go do something valuable for somebody and feel the value that you be of help to someone serve and that will raise your self-worth and it is independent of your net worth i'm so sorry i messed that up

[Music] if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 000 about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today at betheltech.net and get 1 000 to 2500 off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net ken coleman

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage jimmy's with us hi jimmy how are you dave i'm great how are you better than i deserve sir so where do you live white plains new york white plains all right very cool welcome to nashville and uh how much debt have you paid off jimmy i've paid off just over 97 000 very cool how long did that take you sir just about five years love it and uh your range of income during that time talking about pay after tax um 53

to start and finishing up at 78. good for you what do you do for a living i am a training specialist i work for a large engineering company um so if your employees here at ramsay have to take any of those computerized e-learning modules i make those for the company that i work for ah okay good for you

very cool what kind of debt was your 97 000 it was a car and two student loans

one private one federal ah okay so what put you on this ramsey journey thing five years ago so in my family any

time you have a question about money my cousin stephen he's a little older to me he's in his 50s he's the guy you talk to about money quick background on him he's in his early 50s owns a mini mansion in north carolina free and clear is retired already after putting two kids through college so that's who you want to be when you grow up gotcha i had a question for

you because of steve yeah cousin steve so i had a question for him something about my 401k back when i was new with my current company so i called him and i was asking him whatever it was that i had to ask him about the 401k and he goes hold on time out stop for a minute let's take a step back you just finished your masters right yes steve okay how much student loan debt do

you have hanging out i told him the embarrassingly high number of student loan debt that i had and he goes all right have you heard of dave ramsey and i said actually yes and the reason that i have was because my mother actually had the exact copy of total money makeover that i brought with me here today sitting on her coffee table at her house it's a great coaster

it really it really was i think i used it a few times myself before before i realized what exactly it was so my apologies for that that's it's all good it's it's america's greatest coaster so anyway so he goes read that book and then talk to me later and we'll see how you doing i read that book and it literally completely changed my life and i'm not just saying that to blow smoke dave really

i never thought about money the same way again wow i like cousin steve yeah yeah he's my greatest promo guy way to go steve that's cool he kind of handled it like i think you would he was like hold on let's just go back he just cut him off and said no no no no no no no no no no i'm doing it i'm going to talk to

you about your 401k until you read your mother's coaster that's right i love him to get the coaster off the coffee table and i don't think we even finished the conversation about the 401k from there on out it was all about the debt yeah just all and you got done you got done and five years later here you sit all of it's gone car student loans everything sitting with a master's degree your mattresses

and what industrial and organizational psychology which he uses every day yes he does

fabulous yeah and thus you and thus you are doing that that's beautiful i like it very cool very cool jimmy i love it

how's it feel to be free oh it's tremendous dave it's like having a 400 pound monkey no longer on your back

absolutely absolutely what do you tell people you're a trainer what's the key to getting out of debt ignore and drown out all the noise as you're going through this process i mean i live in new york i meet a lot of people that wear very expensive suits and sound like they really know what they're talking about when it comes to money i've had people try to get me into cryptocurrency people try to get me into pyramid schemes

i mean all kinds of things that we're going to take away from my total money makeover debt-free journey and sometimes they make points that like make sense for a second and then you're like wait a minute no i listen to dave ramsey that's what i'm gonna do so it's drowning out all that noise staying the course and really just being focused on it wow submitting to the plan exactly

and stick to the plan stick to the plan stick to the plan good for you very well done sir wow this is powerful it is i

i'm curious is there a moment you can look back to or you you said okay i i caught some serious momentum uh or did you just from day one you were a bull and you never let up the momentum and this is where i think the snowball method is really really effective it was i had one of the student loans was for 3 000 so that was easy cash

then came the car i had i think 11 000 left on the car at that point once i paid off the car and now i had 280 from the car plus 30 for that other one 330 which for me back then was a lot of money at the time now that i had that free to apply towards the largest debt which was the largest student loan that was

the point where it was like all right now i'm really making progress now we're really going to see this thing take off awesome wow how big how important is that to experience that momentum in this journey it's essential because if you don't feel it if you don't feel it here your head is not going to listen to what's in here if what's in here is not there

if that makes sense does that make sense man you're preaching that somebody ought to tweet that that's phenomenal what you just said that's really good very well done very well done congratulations jim i'm proud of you thank you dave and ken proud of cousin steve oh he'll be so happy because i'm going to show him the clip once this edge so he'll be that's awesome he'll laugh for sure

i love it was he one of your cheerleaders as you went through this absolutely he was of course my my family mother father sister they were all very supportive but who i really have to thank is the ramsey community because they were my accountability partners i mean if you notice i'm standing up here all by myself i don't have a spouse i don't have kids there was nobody to really hold me accountable for doing all

this per se but when i turned on youtube three four times a week to watch the replay from the show just hearing the phone calls and and seeing the reactions and the emotion from people when they did their screams and just hearing all their stories that's what kind of held me accountable so i did this not only for myself but kind of also as what i felt was an obligation to

the ramsey community so a thank you to the entire ramsey community of listeners seriously from my heart to yours i love it love this guy this is great what a what a powerful thing we got a copy of the legacy journey for you a new coaster for your mom's table and uh a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away so that can be a coaster on someone else's table hey

but it hangs out long enough eventually it gets red i'm i'm going with this plan multi-purpose it's a long play it's not a short game it's a long game play but i'm going with it it's working for me well done jimmy very well done all right jimmy from yonkers new york 97 000 paid

off in five years making 53-78 count it down let's hear a debt

free scream three two one i'm debt free

i love it that is so fun

uh i think that whole segment was tweetable oh i know i mean that that screen right i want to tackle somebody and i don't tackle anybody but i want he's ready to go i mean the sheer passion from this guy how about the shout out to the entire community and i think that's a really interesting point that there's a whole bunch of people that we get the privilege to serve

and and in serving them they end up encouraging each other it really is the community it it's it's amazing you know all the people in ramsey plus and all the people have come to the events all the years all the people that are on the facebook page all it's amazing to see that here's a single guy who shouted out all the other people he came in contact with on

the same journey yep that's really cool and there's that um well it gives you permission to do stuff that that the rest of the culture is not doing when you look around you go okay there's there's about a bazillion other smart people doing what i'm doing exactly right and yes there's a bunch of crazies out there in the toxic culture but um but but but but there isn't

this oasis of humans that are engaged in transformation they're engaged in doing the work the hard work of change that's right and changing is hard wow get yourself a community even if it's on the facebook page uh or on the youtube channel get in community it's uh

it's vital way to go jimmy yeah proud of you man good stuff way to go cousin steve i love it love it love it love it everybody needs a cousin steve most people don't have one though that's a privilege right there i feel like we should get cousin steve on the line james i mean wouldn't that guy be a great interview at some point

this is the ramsey show [Music]

so

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage

blake and macy are with us hey guys how are you we're good how are you better than we deserve where do you live uh we live in dallas texas all right welcome to nashville and all the way up here to do a debt free scream how much have you paid off we have paid off 66 147 cool how long did that take about 15 months good for you and your range of income during that time so we started out at 133 000 and then at the end of the 15 it was a 143 000.

credit cards uh with that we financed our wedding our honeymoon uh just about everything uh yeah you name it we put it on a credit card a really expensive couch and uh in both of our

cars also so it was four credit cards and two cars so you're just kind of normal yeah we were really normal so you come home from the expensive wedding honeymoon and expensive cars are sitting in the driveway how long have you been married uh almost four years okay so you've been married a couple years and you look up and say uh we got to do something different what what introduced

you to ramsey how did you get this stuff going so my sister and brother-in-law actually had paid off a lot of over 175 000 a couple years ago and it

was thanksgiving of 2019 and we just

found out we were pregnant and so um and

i just talking to her you know at casual thanksgiving dinner and i was just kind of like well we we have all this debt and we don't really know what to what to do but we i just i showed an interest in wanting to pay it off and so she just very gently mentioned you and

that your podcast and she was just like this is easy to listen to you know on the way to work or while you're working out or whatever and so the very next day on our drive home um we listened to our first podcast and something just clicked to blake has he was the nerd i'm the free spirit and he has always been good with money he tried to put us put us on a budget right

when we first got married and i laughed and um i was just like no but uh no but after listening i don't know it was just something about it was just easy to listen to you and just kind of get what we needed to you know to get going and then um it clicked and so that was thanksgiving and so january of 2020 we

started executing our plan we're like okay this is what we're going to do you know the the baby steps everything they my same sister and brother-in-law gifted us the total money mocha money makeover and so we read that and you know like a week and then we were pretty gung-ho and then covet happened a couple months later i was pregnant um and we were very

lucky that we kept our jobs and um you know we didn't have to lose any income so that was a blessing but um so covet actually helped us because we didn't do anything we weren't going anywhere and i was pregnant so it was like we weren't really going to go out and do anything anyways and so um that it made it was initially a two-year goal and we ended up doing it in 15 months wow you blew through it yeah yeah and it was just it was all the the debt snowballs

it's just it works it gave us all the momentum in the world so what was uh maybe one of the most radical kind of get after it intense things you guys did in this journey so i think uh one of the things was uh saying no to everything so like it was so hard that you know we're sitting there and all our friends are going to beautiful trips

and everything or they're wanting to go to dinner or anything and we were just having like no i'm sorry we can't and it was just hard the fear of missing out type thing but once we got over that and then i think the probably the one of the things was we were expecting our first child and so i wanted to go crazy with the nursery and and doing all

the things you know that a mom wants to with their first kid and well that's unusual no one ever does that yeah and we didn't

have any money because we were paying off all this debt and so we didn't buy one piece of furniture for the nursery we it was everything was given to us or hand-me-downs or i mean we just we didn't have to go use any of our money

for our snowball and it turns out two-month-olds aren't that picky about where they sleep right yeah right so that was that i think that was probably one of the hardest yeah that's hard that's a big deal yeah it's a big deal not decorating the nursery except with uh things that folks give you that's a big deal yeah and it i like i like it a lot but it's a big deal yeah very cool good for

you guys well you just proved the difference in a need and a what the kid needs a place to sleep a want is everything you want around them they don't even know what's there right it's all about it's all about mom making a nest and dad making a nest or dad making momma nest or however that works but yeah it's uh it's real yeah so

absolutely and people spend an amazing amount of money on that stuff yeah and the baby literally does not care at all not even a little bit not even a little bit yeah so way to go you guys all right what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh one of the things that i think is uh communication and collaboration but uh the main thing was

the the budget and i think that every dollar app was just mind-blowing for us and we sat down every month and at the beginning of it you know we assessed what we could do and then you know at the end of it it was easy to say no when it was the category was zero it's sorry and then and then i would just say going into it knowing that

you know mentally it's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term reward i mean if you go into it thinking oh this is going to be a bree i mean nobody really thinks it's going to be a breeze but if you think that it's going to be easier than it really is then i think people get stuck a few months in and they get frustrated and they're you know

they just give up and i think we very really we just sat down

every month and was just like this is our goal this is what we want to do and 15 months is literally nothing in the grand scheme of things and so and i mean i'm so glad we did that it's just it's been it's an amazing feeling especially now having the baby he's 15 months old now and um it's just it's a it's a whole new world i could i can't imagine uh still having that much debt and also taking care of

you know a baby absolutely yeah absolutely well

congratulations thank you who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you definitely my sister and brother-in-law that got us on we got started every time we paid off a credit card we'd send them a screenshot yeah i like it they celebrated us through and through and then my parents and blake's parents and just yeah and even like our friends and coworkers like everyone was super supportive

they really were cool loved the journey for us that's cool so who all came on the trip with you my parents and um our baby is over there yeah okay all right cool all right your baby's name is what asher now do you want asher in the shot for this or yeah yeah we'll make it all right cool very cool good good good we've got a copy of

the legacy journey for you that is the next chapter in your story for sure you've changed your family tree way to go you guys excellent job and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away when someone at thanksgiving mentions that they need some help you'll have a book you can hand them very good stuff blake and macy and asher asher's

life has been changed by his mom and dad dallas texas 66 000 paid off in 15

months making 133 to 143 count it down

let's hear a debt free scream three two one

[Applause] i love it i love it

well at the break we're going to interview asher about the psychological damage of having been brought home from the hospital into a used baby bed yeah you can just see the little guy scarred right there he looks like he's struggled yeah he looks and it looks like it's you know the wallpaper on the wall was not right in that nursery i'm just saying there's there's a permanent damage done here didn't have a branch those parents should be assuming what do they call those things that like thank you dave

dave's got all the baby stuff dialed in now yeah including the expense of nurseries although i didn't write a single check for any of them but um i am privy to the process all of them i've toured all of them at lengths at various times of day and and even into the evenings yes it has happened so yeah that's it's uh but i i hey same thing happened

when the ramsey kids were coming home a million years ago or the coleman kids you gotta have a gotta have a special room gotta have a special thing but we in america go nuts what we spend on our pets would support egypt oh don't even get me started on that one i love my pets and you love yours too but man oh man what we spend on halloween what americans spend on halloween would do away from with hunger for most of

the people in america that have hunger issues by the way the kids these days dave are getting full-sized candy bars i grew up in their old days when we got a little tiny little one half of a bite well that's what's wrong with the world this is just saying it's just a spool it's just awful it's just awful this is the ramsay show [Music]

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well you're hearing all these debt-free screams and you're thinking about fall stuff you got to buy like halloween candy and jackets and sweaters christmas is coming up christmas sneaks up on people every year like they move it or something it's always in december i'll just put christmas on a credit card again what do you think you are in congress hey when you plan ahead with a budget

you can keep christmas from getting out of control and the best way to do that is with our world-class budgeting tool every dollar and you can sync up with that and go through financial peace university at ramsey plus with a ramsey plus membership and every dollar working along with financial peace university inside ramsey plus gives you everything you want stress free you can get control you can be

the these people you were just listening to start budgeting with every dollar by texting budget to 33 789 text budget to 33789

dan is with us in hudson wisconsin hey dan welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thank you how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

i just want to give you and ken and your team a huge shout out my wife and i recently became 100 percent debt-free here we go everything so we are super grateful for all you and your team do uh my question tonight on baby step seven part of what we're doing we're self-employed we have a small business

is to up the contributions for our

iras for our employees

we currently have a simple ira we're matching three percent and i was told that three percent of the max that we can do in a simple ira that's true um okay and then would it be worth going into a 401k and i was how many employees do you have

we have six uh talk with your smartvestor pro about this the simple ira is a 401k for small business but it is very um structured it requires that you put in three percent no more no less as a match and it's 100 vested from day one for anybody that goes in uh the 401k could cost you as much as

five or ten thousand dollars a year in administrative fees and across five or six employees that seems like a waste um so it might be the way to do this is

with a sep ira you can do that in addition to

the simple ira the sep plan the simplified employee pension plan says any employee that's been with you three more than three of the last five years you are required to put into that the same percentage of your income that you put in for you that's why a lot of people don't use it

so it works really good for a solopreneur like if i want to just dump a bunch of money into retirement plan but if i've got employees been with me more than three the last five years and i put in 15 of my income i have to put in 15 of their income for them and so you're wanting to do that so this

might work really well for you you know you're not required to put in any amount but and you can change it year to year so you could come up on the end of the year and go hey this year i'm going to put in seven percent of my income and i'm putting in seven percent of everybody else's in addition to doing the simple okay and so you

the good news about it is it would give you flexibility you don't have to do anything uh depending on how your profits go that year and you could decide you know you could do a little bit through the year and then pop it up at the end and you know jack the numbers up at the end of the year if you wanted to so check with your smartvestor pro uh

if you're not working with one go to ramseysolutions.com and click smart investor those are the people we recommend in the investment world it'll drop down a list of the ones in your area you can pick one from that list and they'll all be people that we have vetted and people that have the heart of a teacher very cool when a guy has six employees and wants to make sure he's taking care of their retirement brings up

the old phrase dave you said a billion times if you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else and this is the backbone of america right here there's a young man they've done the hard work they've they've become debt free now he wants to pour into his employees i mean that's phenomenal yeah that right there no one requiring no he's calling

and asking yeah that was passed it was not a a an executive order no

it was not the irs looking into his bank account no it wasn't any of that stuff it was just a guy who did well and thought you know i want to share with the team that helped me get here yeah and um

knowing that they could leave and take that money with them yeah they can at any time that's the rule but uh what a great heart i love that yes robert is with us in california hey robert welcome to the ramsey show

hello um yeah so my question is very related to

ken's book that he's been working on and

basically i have two job offers both really good offers but one of them is substantially higher than the other and the one that's higher is working for a really big tech corporation that i wouldn't necessarily be super excited about and the one that's lower is a job i'd be much more excited about but it's a lot lower it's like uh 70 000 left so i'm

wondering what you what are the two numbers uh it's like 240 total compensation versus 170

doing what software development for the tech corporation what's the other option 240 and 170.

yeah but what's the what kind is it both tech jobs tech development yeah they're both software which one's a big company yeah they're both software development but the the smaller uh the lower one of the smaller company that's doing work that i think is actually interesting where i would be much more excited to like go to my job every day as opposed to exactly all right so

let's ask this question for that company you're more excited is there a ladder what does it look like a year two three years down the line if you take the 170 doing the work that you're interested in

so they've definitely assured me that there's a ladder but it's a little harder to find information on how much of a ladder there is because the companies the the lower salary one that i'm more excited about is only a year and a half old as a company so there's not a lot of information on how the ladder's been for other people yeah what do you make currently you've got two offers what are you currently making i currently make about 130.

two more than option one and if there is a ladder it seems that there is i'm always going to say follow your heart and do the work that you're excited about if there is a ladder and it sounds like there so that's where i would go because i think money's not enough to sustain you completely agree only i'm going to do a modified option one i'm going to go back in and go guys my heart is here this is what i want to do i love what you're doing i want to be plugged in i got this other offer for 240.

help me help me figure out a way to come here

yeah so i mean they probably they're not going to go to 240. i didn't say that i didn't say you had to match it i just said help me figure out a way to come here and then they you know and it could it could be that they very clearly outline a detailed ladder on a calendar yes it could be that they offer you stock options in this startup that are worth a whole heck of a lot more than 70.

right that's true they could give you some points in the deal what the stock is going to be worth you take you a couple deal points and and you take this job yeah but you go back in and you ju you just smile and you just say i really want to come here help me figure out a way right that's a great point and then just let them squirm and start answering that question that don't you don't tell them what the answer is and here's what's going to happen a they're going to give you a more more than 170.

let this let the let the pressure fall in the room on the other side of the table gently kindly say i really want to come here these other people are offering me 240.

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show you can listen to all our shows with the ramsay network app on your smartphone browse by topic or even send clips to your friends download the ramsay network app in your favorite app store today [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where that is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice and the paid off student loan has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice george camel ramsey personality host of the fine

print a new podcast out on ramsey networks is my co-host for this very special theme hour on the ramsey show as we celebrate the launch of the new documentary borrowed future we're going to talk student loans this hour if you want to talk about student loans you got a question about student loans you have a success story about student loans you think they're awesome you think they're

the most horrible thing on the planet uh you have an opinion about anything you want to talk about as long as that's that subject you call triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five borrowed future is out of the gate it has launched george and it's already moving the needle and it's it's climbing the charts and for good reason i've already seen

the feedback one woman said she's watched it twice already before 9 am that's impressive she was so fired up about this she's telling everyone about it her daughter all of her friends it's one of those that you can't help but you have to tell everyone you need to go watch this today if you don't know what borrowed future is it's our new documentary it launches today on apple tv on google play

and on amazon

prime and you can also watch it at borrowedfuture.com and if you're a teacher you can it's all a standard documentary it's what 4.99 to rent it whatever 8.99 to buy it or whatever the normal thing is on that stuff and uh just like anything else you look to see a first class documentary on something this is all about the student loan world

how the student how student loans are

basically killing the american dream it's called borrowed future be sure you tune into it again amazon prime google

play apple tv it's number two in the documentary already today of all documentaries on apple yeah so it's moving you guys are watching it like crazy you're sharing it if you're a teacher and you want to show this to your students it's free go to borrowedfuture.com i'm going to tell you that about a hundred times this hour but it's time to talk about these student loans and how out of control

they are george did you have a student loan yeah i had 36 000 it was i think the average at the time so i was very average hmm

how long it took you to pay it off uh 18 months once i got on this plan once you got serious about it you knocked it out fast yeah i didn't realize you could get rid of them i just thought it's something you just keep as a pet uh until your adult life and maybe take it to the grave if you have to yeah i had 3 200

wow way back there it was 1982 right

and um yeah and i had way more than that on my amaco card my gas credit card because in those days if you went out in the country you could buy a couch on your gas credit card i mean it was you know crazy stuff so uh but yeah it was a different different world and certainly tuition was different and but uh so was the cost of living gasoline was under a dollar

you know that a gallon and that kind of thing so that's how long ago that 1982 was for you people but uh student loans have

continued to grow to where it has become and uh just a weight on people to where they can't breathe it's just so normal i mean most people you meet that's the one thing you're going to have in common is oh you've got a student loan too great how much is yours and then you laugh about it because you can't fathom because you can't cry about it but only

so much exactly if you when you can't cry you laugh and so this is a huge issue and as we explored this two years ago while we were doing the borrowed future podcast which you hosted which i hosted the documentary team was just getting started on this so this was two years ago and watching that team develop the story and iterate and iterate to tell the right story has been absolutely incredible well we're storytellers here

and i gotta tell you when you're telling a story there's a process to telling a story uh if you're going to do it properly there's a villain there's a hero there's a guide and there's a story arc

and there's a process you build to pull someone through a story and we had a

serious problem with this documentary

there were too many villains there were villains everywhere you don't know who to point the finger at is it sally may is it the guidance counselors is it the parents is it the student loan company person who signed up for the loan the person who signed up there's kind of hard to blame them although they did sign up for it but they're in just such a pitiful horrible situation

and you want to cry with them rather than beat them up yeah yeah we're not mad at you if you took out the students i mean i'm not mad at it you know i am mad at the banks i think they're out of control um you know there's only been two or three times in my career 30 years here on the air that elizabeth warren and i have agreed on something

and uh because i'm a capitalist pig and she's a socialist um and uh she's a very

bright lady and i've actually had her on the air here back in the day we were fighting a bankruptcy bill that the republicans put through uh at the behest of the bankers and it was a bad bill and it's a bad law and it's still in place uh modification is the bankruptcy law and she and i were on the same side of that ted kennedy was the three of us were fighting against that and we all lost of course uh and but she's come out today and of

course if you haven't heard uh naviant uh six million student loan borrowers are far better off after yet another major company announced it will shut down its services elizabeth warren said like like elizabeth warren calls navient to shut down come on elizabeth you didn't cause this but yeah no one uh

no one is crying a tear that navient is gone navient one of the largest student loan companies unveiled plans to end its federal loan services the student loan industry on tuesday received yet another major shake up when navient became the third company to announce its plans to end its federal student loan program amid regulatory crackdowns this year senator elizabeth warren had one message for the company good riddance

i would agree with you senator warren navient has spent decades misleading cheating and abusing student borrowers the federal student loan program will be far better off without them the federal student loan program would be far better off if it didn't exist senator warren it has not been a blessing to anyone except people like navient and people like you who used it to get votes navient which collects

the federal student loan debt of 6 million borrowers said in a press release that it's working with the education department to approve the transition of those borrowers to another loan company called maximus that's it that's comforting that's a comforting maximus what interest maximus interest that's scary maximus

screwjob so you just get traded to the next one can't make this up they're gonna call it maximus

oh boy this is fabulous this is what's wild richard cordray head of the federal student aid office he said earlier this month student loan companies are choosing to shut down rather than face more accountability

because they've been screwing people they go hey this ship is sinking let's get out of here well we we we didn't got caught with our hand in the cookie jar we got all the cookies out of this we're gonna get we're gone baby we're gonna get out of here before we end up the subject of a federal investigation and get more than shut down yeah that's what that's what's going on here they're not doing anyone favors

but themselves here yeah and i got to tell you the democrats and the republicans uh did put pressure on navient for its misbehavior and thank you i will go along with you senator warren uh good riddance to naviant

ciao baby student loans we're bringing people from across the aisle today bring all maximus bring our maximus maximus interest [Laughter] [Music] maximus

oh i can't believe it [Music]

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it's a student loan theme hour we're talking student loans in honor of today's premier launch of the new documentary borrowed future

you can view it anywhere you view great documentaries like google play amazon prime apple tv and it borrowed

future.com stockton is with us in phoenix arizona hey stockton welcome to the ramsey show good afternoon um i graduated graduate school a year ago with two hundred thousand dollars student debt at seven percent my question is the recommendation is to get out of debt except for a home the home debt is okay what if my student loans is as much as a home would cost is the recommendation to still pay off the student loans renting during that time and if so that'll be 10 plus years

what's your graduate degree in i'm a chiropractor okay and so what are you going to be making

uh i just started a job here in phoenix 85 000 a year okay and so you you plan to pay 15 000 a

year on the student loans yes well that sucks yeah that's pretty lame you ought to pay a lot more than 15 000 if you're making 80 and you should be making more than 80 as your chiropractic career grows would you agree with me yeah the hope is definitely to make more eventually um as i grow in the company and whatnot the other issue what did you make

but the year before you graduated what was your income 50 000 associates in chiropractic don't can be taken advantage of and i was last year so i didn't make very good money last year yeah okay so what if you lived on 35 000

and put the rest of it towards the student loan debt yeah that was one of the reasons why we postponed getting a home is is to hopefully throw more money at the student loans the only issue is to live in a rental home where my wife and our kids feel comfortable walking the street our rental is 1600 a month and that

doesn't include the administration fees the hoa fees and other fees associated with the renting so that's something that i struggle with is being able to throw all my money at student loans yet my rental i feel like is taking more money than it should i'll tell you as as a homeowner

it's very expensive and i'm not talking about the mortgage payment versus the rent payment i'm talking about home ownership in general so if you can't afford to rent you definitely can't afford to be a homeowner and so what i want you to do is focus on these student loans first i want you to buy a house i want you to have that american dream but as we talk about in

the documentary student loans are killing that dream because you've got this bear of a payment in your life and you've got a great income it's going to continue to go up and like dave saying this thing's gone three and three to four years from now stockton here's the thing you have two choices you can go the way that you're you're trying to your emotions are taking you where you're justifying

this and you're figuring out a way that it takes forever and so you go ahead and buy a house and now you've got a house payment and you've got the cost of home ownership that georgia's talking about and your career will move along and it will take you 10 years to get out of that or more if you go that route or you can do the thing that

we have taught and many many chiropractors have done what i teach and they roll up their sleeves and they say not today i'm going to engage in a

different treatment program for the patient i'm

going to roll up my sleeves we're going to do nothing around this house we're not going to do anything except get out of debt we're going to clean up this mess so that as my career grows i get to

actually keep the freaking money instead of sending it all to sallie mae navient or maximus so uh this is going to be too much fun i'm looking forward to the next decade of this well and so uh yeah the uh uh yeah

but right now the the state of mind you're in you're going to be in debt a long time because you bought the lie that you're stuck and you bought the lie that you might as well just keep this like it's a freaking backache or you can do the i

just told a chiropractor like that i just said that i did that on purpose that was a metaphor that he would understand and so yeah the uh i hope so

you you're gonna either engage in the extreme measures to get the extreme results or you're gonna be normal and i sound like you talking to one of your patients with the treatment program you put in so you got to decide physician heal thyself sierra is with us sierra is in what did

i do there she's in uh did i did i i gotcha didn't i got it i managed to pull it off in san antonio hey sierra how are you i'm good how are you good now to back story for our listeners you were here just the other day with your parents who did their debt-free scream they were amazing you were amazing and we called you back because of while they're doing their debt-free screaming talking about getting out of debt

they said and oh by the way our daughter who was going into college while we're getting out of debt managed to go and get her degree debt free and you're an impressive young lady i remember remember meeting you the other day thanks for coming on with us thank you for having me i really appreciate it it was a lot of fun being able to uh watch my parents tell their story

and then now i get the chance this online so i'm super excited cool so your degree is in what i got a degree in marketing from where

stephen at austin state university in nacogdoches texas vacuum checks there you go and you did this 100 debt free how weird are you how did you do that

yeah so um it really all started with a plan that my dad and i put together my senior year of high school um it was getting down to the wire i pretty much had um my own plan actually figured out i thought i did at the time i had the school i wanted to go to i had the acceptance letter i had you know room and board figured out um i just didn't have the money to pay for it so that was the biggest uh thing that

i had to figure out and so my parents sat me down and they were like look you know we want you to go to school we're just not going to go into debt in order for you to do that and so i kind of had to just come into terms with the fact that i wasn't going to have that first year college experience that i was looking forward to but there was a bigger picture at hand and so my dad and i

devised a plan and we basically figured out how much it was going to take or how much i would have to save to go to the university of my choice which was sfa for the last two years so four semesters

we got that number and then we figured out how much i needed to be saving monthly in order to reach that goal at the end of my first two years at my community college and so while i went to community

college for the first two years i worked i would say at least 40 hours a week every week and i was saving pretty much my entire check what were you doing what kind of work oh i worked at a local grocery store and you were how old i was 17 at the time so 17 18 years old

you're in community college for the first two years and you're working and saving to do the last two years at your dream school correct wow right so is that what happened yes i did i was making about i want to say maybe 13 an hour and i was able to actually finish a community college a little bit early i finished in three semesters instead of four so because of the high school credits that i took i mean the college credits that i took in high school um i was able to finish up so you did like some ap classes that got college credit correct they were like dual credit cards which sped up how fast you got through and was made you did not take those classes so it saved your money correct ding ding ding ding ding ding wow yeah so that helped me out a lot i was able to finish an entire semester early at community college so that last semester i just worked i mean i was working every day every night i actually ended up taking on a second job because the one job that i had i wasn't going to reach my goal in time when did you graduate i graduated um i graduated high school 2016 finished community college in 2018 and then graduated um from sfa this past may 2020.

new marketing job not yet currently i work at ernst young one of the uh big four accounting firms as a financial analyst right now but without the the mike

i make about forty seven thousand family i love you you're amazing incredible incredible okay key point made a plan my dad was a parent my dad did two things he took dead off the table not an option my dad helped me plan you picked up on it george yeah she made a plan rachel cruz says we don't have a student loan crisis we have a parenting crisis

i believe that moms and dads are letting their 18 year olds run off into a ditch and watching them do it instead of grabbing you and going no debt plan no debt plan work sounds like dad stuff sounds like mom stuff this is the ramsey show

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it's a student loan theme hour here on the ramsey show open phones at triple eight eight two five two george campbell if you want to talk about student loans this is your place george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host he is the current host he was the original host of the borrowed future podcast which actually gave us the inspiration and the idea to turn it all into a documentary

and george did a great job with that millions and millions of you have listened to borrowed future podcast uh i think it was 10 12 episodes yeah it was eight and now nine we released a bonus one today oh bonus episode on podcast today yeah updating everyone to go with the launch on the documentary and of course he's also the host of the new ramsey network's production called

the fine print and you can listen to him there all the time i want to go back to sierra's story for a minute she's incredible a young lady comes in says i'm going to go to college and i have no idea i'm going to pay for it and there's no way i have the money as if the money's going to just rain from heaven which is you

you were interviewing some students some high school students recently and you started asking them and it freaked them all out basic questions what it was going to cost what do they want to do what was it going to cost how are they going to pay for it and you would have thought it was an interrogation room and i went oh my gosh their parents have never talked to them about

this stuff well their parents have never thought about it either they probably what are you studying

that's matters and that you can get a job because you paid money to get a degree not i got a degree in left-handed puppetry and then i'm shocked that i'm serving coffee come on moms and dads you got better sense than this but sierra's dad said no you're going to study marketing consequently she's got a job straight out of college making almost 50 grand and that young woman

there she'll be making double that in just a handful of years i promise you uh she's incredible and then the second thing dad did was he said no we're not going to borrow money which means that we need a plan we need a plan so how are we going to do this well she worked her tail end off oh by the way working while you're in college is not child abuse call

the ambulance you don't get to participate in the beer pong tournament you'll survive

you're there to get a degree to gather knowledge this is what you're paying for not how much alcohol you can consume

and whether the football team is good or not will not affect your future career they don't ask about that when you do the job interview who knew who knew you know yeah it's conversation piece oh you went to so-and-so and they suck at football that's the only thing that comes up and then it moved right along right oh my god you know and so the the the uh student experience that we're paying 150 grand for somebody shoot me

and get it this over with really instead we're going to end up with maximus debt as us that's the new lender if you maximus debt is us navi just renamed them i just renamed the whole thing i'm going to have so much fun with this it's just you're right it sounds like a villain from a saturday morning cartoon maximus dedicated that is us i love it it's frightening

so parents moms and dads you can stop

this watch borrowed future scare you straight scare your kids straight and it'll also make you vote your congressman out of office because they're idiots they keep the student loan thing in place and then they go around we need to forgive student loans well student loans are so evil elizabeth warren that we need to forgive them she tweeted that today by the way if we need to forgive

the student loans elizabeth warren why aren't you passing legislation to stop making them oh that would be intellectually dishonest oh wait a minute you're a politician oh women you're a democrat oh my god seriously huh are you riled up i'm riled up we did it i have for 30 years worked with people whose lives have been screwed up by this and it doesn't affect me at all yeah

i don't have student loans like i said 3 500 years ago when the dinosaurs roamed the earth nobody cares about my student loan debt but i tell you what talking these people their lives unbelievable carol is with us carol is in philadelphia carol your student loan question or comment hi thank you for having me i just had a comment about student loans and my back story i am 46 years old

and i still have 101 000 left in student loans i was

double dumb and went back to college twice and took out loans twice um i just didn't know any better before you know following dave ramsey

and personalities yeah

i still have to rent an apartment um i

only have a thousand dollars in my emergency fund i've never really fully been able to invest i always thought investing was you know for the rich people um and it's

just from my background neither of my parents went to college they had no idea what you know they could never teach me what were your degrees in well the first degree was in history which if you don't go to grad school and you don't want to be a teacher is basically like left-handed puppetry

when you graduate so and then i worked in an office in my 20s and then in my 30s i decided to go back i always wanted to be an architect so i got an architecture degree um but i went through a private school yes yes i'm doing financially well how much do you make next year i am making 80 000. that's good okay so now we're going to claw our way out of this okay good exactly exactly so um but i just would

tell anybody don't take out student loans at all it's

not a good roi you know sally mae is not in my spare bedroom i'm living in her basement it feels like right now you know she owns the house i'm just a tenant yes exactly exactly um and i i think people are so they want to get done in four years and they want to start their life and you know at 17 and 18 i didn't know what

i want to do most people don't know what they want to do at that age i think it's better to take your time work you know build your savings to be able to go it's okay to go to school part-time you don't need to go to the party school you don't need to live away from home it's just you really have to think about it i wish

they would have taught it in high school um so yeah it's it's tough it's it's not easy carol i'm proud of you for facing the monster i think you're going to win i think you've turned the corner i will win my goal is to get it all paid off before i'm 50 because i do not want student loans in my 50s there you go that's a good that's a good goal

and you're gonna get there i mean it's four years you're gonna make it you're gonna do it that's 25 000 a year making 80 grand you can do that and um i i got faith in you and thank you for telling your story though because it is a wake-up call and again we go back to studying something that's applicable someone got an architecture degree now that actually works hello

and studying something studying at a school see here's the thing okay i'm not mad at you if you want to go to a famous school and pay a lot of money

i mean 70 80 000 a year okay vanderbilt

right here in nashville 70 something thousand bucks a year tuition okay university of tennessee in-state tuition state school twelve thousand dollars so is vanda are we saying vanderbilt is seven times your income is going to be seven times as much if you go to vanderbilt as if you go ut well i know this is not a fact because i went to the university of tennessee and people that weren't went to vanderbilt worked for me

so i know the 7x thing doesn't work and oh well i make connections with what other broke people who are you connecting with other people who didn't have the ability to look for a value now again i'm not i've got relatives that graduate from vanderbilt they're very smart and vanderbilt is academically superior it's not 7x superior no not even close

not even close and if you go 300 000 in debt to go there it's an indication you're not superior yeah your your lack of judgment is unbelievable and so i'm picking on vanderbilt but they're just an example of one of the famous schools that's a they're the southern ivy league if you want to call it there's a lot of pride and you went my my mom and dad went

there and so i've got to go hard to get into it's right it's very prestigious the football team well maybe not there's not there but a lot of times you make these decisions based on where mom and dad went what the experience is going to be like what the football team is like not can we afford it and is this going to get me the degree that

i can get the job in the field that i'm passionate about we're not thinking that way we took a call here on the air just a few months ago a young lady in south carolina was talking about going to oxford to mississippi and i said why are you going to mississippi instead of south carolina it's 14 000 or more because of out-of-state tuition a reason the town is pretty

ah

i'm gonna lose my mind where are your parents this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day first peter 5 6 and 7 7 humble yourselves therefore under god's mighty hand that he may lift you up in due time cast all your anxiety

on him because he cares for you martin luther king said no work is insignificant all labor that uplifts humanity has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking

excellence george campbell is my co-host today this is a student loan hour as we celebrate the premier launch today of our first documentary it's called borrowed future

how student loans are killing the

american dream you can watch it on apple tv rent it for 499 google play amazon prime or borrowed future.com or

you can buy it and download it like you would a great documentary of other kinds so be sure and check that out darnell is with us in huh raleigh north carolina hey darnell what's up hey dave i'm will how are you better than i deserve how can we help yeah so um i was calling because i just finished watching the ball feature documentary and it's gotten me thinking about my student loans and my repayment plan i'm especially considering that i'm going to be graduating soon and i'll have to start paying them um so so far my student loans have been kind of in the background one because you know i have four years to work on paying them well to consider how i would pay them but i also went back to school right after so um so they've really been in the background for a while but after watching the documentary it's kind of gotten me thinking of what the best repayment plan is yeah how much student loan debt do you have right now i have 38 000 and i'm gonna have to accept another five thousand to finish off okay she had 45 000 give or take by the time all this smoke clears and your degree is going to be in what um this will be my masters of business administration good good okay when will you graduate uh may of 22.

okay all right and so well between now and then what i'd prefer you do is work your tail end off and let's see if we can not take out any more loans won't you see if you can cash flow the rest of it that's the first thing let's stop doing harm and then from there george when he gets out and gets the job yeah as soon as

you get a job uh that money is not going to go to you it's going to go to lenders and you're going to work your tail off probably get a second job and get rid of this debt it's 43k if you've got an mba and you're making 50 60k you can get rid of this debt in two years or less yeah exactly so it's possible beans and rice rice

and beans dude you don't come out and buy a new car you don't come out and buy a house you don't come out and spend a bunch of money you don't come out and act like your top dog you're not your bottom dog you've got 45 grand about in student loan debt you got to clean up and that's so that's mission one the quicker you knock that out

the quicker you get on with the rest of your life and you get to benefit from this education the longer you keep this around it's more going to be like trying to swim with concrete concrete shoes on don't do it we just took that call from the 46 year old still paying on her loans i don't want that to be you darnell i want you to have your entire adult life student loan free good observation nadia is with us in houston texas hi nadia hi it's nadia nadia

i messed it up i'm

sorry okay nadia my bad i remember seeing you the other day on my daughter's show rachel cruz and you were impressive and i told them to reach out and see if you would come on thank you for doing that thank you for having me now you went through school debt free tell us your story right quick absolutely i actually got my start in community college through bureaucratic courses when i was in high school i started at 12 graduated from my with my

associates when i finished high school at 16 and then went to my four-year university finished off my four-year degree in another two years and graduated debt-free at team with a degree in what political science okay what are you doing uh right now i'm actually saving up money so i can cash flow for grad school and in hopes to become either a social worker a social worker or a child advocacy lawyer okay i like b because i think you're incredible i i was watching your your why i watched your presence and your poise on the air with rachel it was absolutely and you currently are 20 years old i'm no sir i'm 18.

that's that's i think that's doing your part so your mom and dad immigrated from where jamaica from jamaica and they said we're coming to america we're going to change our family tree so by god you're doing this yes absolutely and one thing i appreciate is they would never helicopter parents because i know so many people their parents are just on them so much they don't have any room to grow my parents are always like

you know what you need to do make sure you handle your business and then we don't need to be overbearing in any way they treated you like an adult absolutely i was 12 in in a

community college i was taking classes with adults so well they're in that respect and kept it yes sir so you're are you uh have you been tested for intelligence are you like a savant or something i have it i did skip to grades kindergarten in first grade so i went from preschool to second that was the last time i took an educational test like that i can't skip lunch

and she's just skipping grades over here you are very you're impressive well i think i think you've got i think you've got a high level of intelligence but i think you've got a higher level of uh drive and really and that comes from a higher power yes absolutely yeah no question no question god being involved in your all's lives and uh if you guys want to hear more of uh nadia did

i say it right that time you sure did nadia's story you can see rachel here on rachel cruz's show on youtube uh which comes up pretty regularly that's where i picked it up and i was i was just thumbing through rachel's show and i'm like whoa look at this young lady she's amazing so uh the

ke your your thing was you worked your tail off you went to community college you got school credit for school classes you were taking you rolled that up so you didn't have to take as many classes and you do the whole thing in four years uh now did you get all scholarships or were you working to pay for it uh i actually got my first job when

i was already a junior at howard university and i use that to pay off some of my books and things and just additional expenses due to the pandemic but i didn't get a full ride from howard a lot of it was external scholarships like i mentioned on the show i'm not the product but like these big 10 20 30 000 scholarships i'm the product of 50 scholarships

and 100 and 200 because a lot of people snubbed their nose at those but i was the person like if there's any scholarship y'all are going to give me i will apply take my chances and keep collecting the winnings so out of the total how many dollars in scholarships did you collect do you think i don't know the exact amount but i know

with the other schools that i didn't choose to attend in total the last time i checked was over two million dollars offered when you considered like the tuition and full rides from other schools i was offering yeah but the actual when you add up all those fifty dollar ones and all that and actual cash dollars that went towards your school well you think it's ten thousand or fifty thousand it's probably closer to fifty thousand

and ten yeah wow and how many different scholarships do you think you had you said you had a lot of little ones

well over fifty yeah so they averaged under a thousand dollars a piece yeah is the point yeah that's what it's not about 20 000 scholarships and full rides you've got to apply for the little ones it adds up guys this can be done you just have to pay attention and when you don't pay attention to any area of your life including your education your kids education including your wealth including your debt you wake up and you're normal and your life sucks

and these people that have wanted this were not zombies they did not sleepwalk they paid attention their dads and moms paid attention so this is what borrowed future is about it's trying to get america to pay attention to an epic

and epic failure called the student loan program it is a failure it needs to stop yeah you've got to make a decision once you watch this documentary you have to decide if you're going to be a part of this system any longer if you're going to let your kids be a part of that system and your friends be a part of that system so every living breathing person needs to watch

this documentary the stories are inspiring there's some heartbreaking stuff there's some amazing experts featured on there and it's 90 minutes and it is a world-class feature film documentary i'm so proud of this team and what impact this is gonna have yeah me too borrowed future again you can watch it at google play amazon prime and apple tv as well as borrow future dot com if you are a teacher show

it to your class for free uh and so far today we've had several hundred teachers already sign up for that which gives me hope you can do that we gonna stir up a ruckus boys and girls check it out that puts us our the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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## 210. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 15, 2021)


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four three

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsay show and it's where america is hanging out to have a conversation about your life i'm ken coleman i'm joined by my colleague ramsey personality george campbell the phone number to jump in on the conversation today is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

i will uh dive in on your work questions you wanna get a bigger shovel ken i wanna get promoted how do i make more money so i could speed up the baby steps i'm your guy i'll help you get a bigger shovel uh some of you going ken i just need help because i don't enjoy what i do i'm on my way i'm paying off debt i'm wanting to know can

i work the baby steps but also take steps towards doing work that i really really love pursuing the dream is that possible the answer is yes we'll take on your specific situation and of course george is here our money guru he's going to help you with your money questions as well and so it may be the day for some of you to call in and go you know what uh

i need to call i'm nervous about calling uh we will change your name and your location we understand that these questions many times many times are very very sensitive george and we have no problem changing your name and location so that you feel confident to call in and get some help so we are here standing by triple eight eight two five five two two five got some fun stuff we're gonna cover today george

you doing well i'm doing fantastic you just had the minimalists on your show yeah must have been a good time good time and uh i must say uh for

those that will uh see you on youtube today uh this shirt is very interesting i don't find that uh you are much of a football fan from what i know of you and yet you have miniature classic old football players and uh footballs all over your shirt today i i think it's irony and i find humor and irony so you bought it because you thought this will be a funny shirt to wear pretty much yeah

you ever do that no okay just me yeah i i don't try to be funny but but i like what you're doing there it's a great shirt it's football season there's probably a big game somewhere yeah this weekend so oh i see you just you sat back and i see that you've got a grill yeah it's it's just football culture grilling football yeah all right and george just learned recently what football is

so that makes it even more this is why you've got to watch the show yeah you get to see things like that that's exactly right nnhd maybe we'll have the guys zoom in on your shirt later in the program and we'll do a full diagram and break down but let's get to the phones that's why we're here to help you it is your show we're going to start off with marcia who joins us in atlanta georgia

marcia how can we help oh thanks for taking my call you bet um

my husband and i um have been working the ramsey plan about two years ago and we sold our home and we paid off over 140 000 worth of credit card bills wow

140 000 in credit card bills yes my husband was

i guess he was just caught up in uh trying to get extra cards to pay you know and transfer

uh balances and just got caught up in a lot of credit card names what was he buying

well we had we were uh you could call it

living the vida local uh living that's great i love this but you know what matters marcia is that you guys got on the same page and paid this off that's unbelievable

we did now that we are in a situation um that i really need some help with uh we have over 300 300 000 worth of student loans

uh between myself and him

and we have five investment properties three we own outright and two we have a mortgage on

and you know we're thinking should we sell

uh investment properties to just get this student loan out of our lives that's the only debt that we have now or should we

continue to rent these properties and just use our income to pay off the student loans what is your household income our household income is about 200 000 okay great income there and you've got 300 000 in student loans making 200 i mean if you wanted to if you wanted to get intense you can just use your income and pay off these student loans now if i'm in your shoes

and i've got five rental properties uh two of them having a mortgage on them i want you to be completely debt-free as soon as possible so if i'm you i'm selling one or two of those mortgage pro properties to pay off these loans what are these properties worth well um

they were they're both worth about 200 000 but one of i mean we paid dirt cheap

for them like 20 000 so

well the mortgage for all the mortgage properties sorry um the mortgage property is probably about two hundred and fifty thousand and one is worth two

hundred thousand what do you have what do you owe on each on on the one that's worth two hundred thousand zero sixty 000 on that one and the other one we owe

123.

wow so there's your answer i'm hearing if you sell the two with the mortgage on them you could pretty much be debt free like tomorrow yes and you still have three paid for properties right i'd put a ha i put a sign in the yard of both of those two that you have a mortgage on today

oh that that that is good yes that's what i was thinking that's what i thought you all would say well you are thinking properly i'm glad we could give you some confirmation there well you guys have done really well on that side i think you were just doing some things out of order and now once you pay off these student loans you've got three paid for properties you're going to really build some wealth

and my take is that you're going to buy your next properties with cash most definitely that's what we're thinking i love it well you guys have done really well we're cheering for you get rid of these properties get rid of these student loans way to go marcia and you know what's great uh you could hear the husband in the background like they're all in yeah and you know

i really loved about that call when we first you know started talking to her and you asked what was the debt they paid off like 140 000 and credit card debt and you were like what was it and she was like my husband and it was so sweet in that he was completely off the reservation and somewhere in that story we didn't get it they got on

the same page yeah and paid off 140 000 dollars with a credit card debt and now look at them is clear they're doing they're willing to do whatever it takes even though they've made some mistakes they're they're owning up and going we don't want to live this way anymore we're done live in la vida loca oh yeah that's what was great that was the life needs to decide we're done live in la vida loca it's smoking mirrors it's a house of cards yeah

you know what i'm embarrassed to say i don't actually know what that means okay yes very popular ricky martin song back in the late 90s early 2000s i am embarrassed to say i forgot i it felt familiar to me but i was like i can't place it i'm wanting to sing it on air but i think the fcc might shut us down oh we don't want to do that

i want all the license for a lot of reasons what does it mean though uh it means living living the crazy life ah thank you for living the good life you know i didn't right no i didn't know they're laughing at me in the control room i don't mind okay i just taught you some spanish ken i feel pretty good i feel a little bit more valuable who says

you can't teach an old dog new tricks

well you know i would take offense of that but compared to you george i am the old dog and i might as well just own it hey uh folks we're just getting started we're here to help you on your money questions you want to get a bigger shovel you want more out of your life and work george and i here together teaming up to help you somebody needs to call triple eight eight two five five two two five don't move more of your calls and more of the ramsay show coming right up [Music]

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welcome back america you have joined the conversation here on the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell we're taking you through this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh boy i'm gonna take a stab at this one i i like to say that i'm hooked on phonics george and i'm looking at

the board i'm gonna go it's uh euclare wisconsin we'll see ken joins us later eau claire oh i blew it ken i'm so sorry how can we help hi my name is ken yeah it's a good name

it is a cool name hey uh i've been an artist my whole life

i've made excellent money i've actually uh paid off my mortgage 20 year 10 years ago wow with with the sales of art but ever since then life kind of took a real deep turn and i've been underemployed and i i it's all i needed to hear was your philosophy and i've agreed with that my whole life that i've been doing things like moving dirt hauling gravel driving truck right now i'm way underemployed and i can't do anything other than pay my bills uh but marketing i i've got a website with my

artwork nothing has ever happened with it i i don't know what to do i don't know how to market my artwork to get people to see it yeah tell me about the artwork what kind of art is it well it's a wildlife landscape realism

okay uh forgive me painting i'm assuming yeah painting okay correct have you ever sold one painting well did i ever i got a huge corporation out of chicago they're the ones that have paid my mortgage uh they helped me add on 20 years ago i've been buy or selling to them and they have given me like over a hundred thousand dollars in my life so you were going through a broker essentially no no just uh i went to the fairs and i

went to the affairs brought me the galleries and then the galleries had customers come in and then i had personal contacts they wanted to meet me personally and so wait a second wait a second wait wait let me make sure i heard you properly 20 plus years ago you made really good money selling the very paintings that right now you're having a hard time selling and george just said well what'd you do and you just list it off you rattled it off so fast i couldn't write it down

sorry no no no

ken you've done this before what am i missing

uh i guess i'll trust that one customer cannot pay my whole life's income

yeah but yes my point is ken have you had success selling paintings that's where i was going i had no idea you had had that kind of success i'm blown away so answer the question have you had success selling paintings before nice job uh yes and you had a

personal contact there you go you know what it is you got to get back out there again i don't know what the actual fear or doubt is but that's the issue the issue is what is the fear what is the doubt and i mean specific voice you're wrestling with right now i want to know because that's what's holding you back yeah that's that's a good question that's one i've been asking all my life yeah

but i'm not going to let you off the hook i'm not going to let you off the hook because i think you know i want you to uh own it i am i'm trying tell me what are you most afraid of what do you doubt the most yeah that's not going to be uh a steady stream okay let's let's now let's dive into that okay let's dive into that maybe

it won't be a steady stream at first maybe it'll take a few years to get it to a steady stream maybe that stream won't be enough to fully take care of your needs but is that really the issue because you can do other work that'll keep you going you're doing it right now

so what are you really afraid of you afraid that it was a a whim that it was a chance that one massive corporation liked your stuff and they paid you well for it no one else on the planet is going to like your stuff and because you've done a crappy job of marketing your art on the web don't judge yourself by that that's not how you got success the first time around feels like to me you gotta dust off the old plan and that was good old-fashioned hustle

shoe leather to pavement ken and you've got a track right here i need i need ideas i guess i just need ideas

okay you know other than being a blogger you know i've been going through this stuff uh it's so much crap on the internet you try to look up this information and here's why you want to be a blogger i know but ken you're still missing it i don't think belonging is the answer i think you getting back out and showing your work again

i think for some reason go ahead are you saying start over like the art fairs again yes yes who's buying art where are they that's where you gotta go you're trying to do it all online i didn't do very good with the art periods because i it was marketing i didn't learn it was like a marketing lesson to me i came that was four thousand dollar items at a at a 200 uh

show you know all right i understand but here's the deal i'm trying to simplify this for you because i am not an expert in the art market but what i am good at doing is simplifying the complex and you are facing right now what feels like a very complex problem i'm simplifying it for you who and you don't have to answer this right now on the air

but this is your homework assignment who is buying four thousand dollar pieces of art who is buying four thousand and higher dollar uh pieces of art that are in your particular style forgive me if that's the wrong way to say it but you get my point where are they george you brought up the broker issue you know who's who's out there helping sell those things this is good old-fashioned research there's a market

for it and ken i think the most important thing is for you to remember that you've made a lot of money selling art before this is not a pipe dream for you this isn't some willy-nilly crazy notion you just gotta get hustling again and be willing to deal with rejection that's what's going on george i'm telling you right now you're gonna hear some no's but you're gonna have to step into those no's to be able to get some yeses

and you're so worried that you got the only yes that you could ever get that it's clouding your judgment yeah there are so many people out there ken and ken who who want to buy really great artwork at that price point so if i'm you i'm going to find every avenue and try it and see what works go to your local coffee shop and say hey can

i hang my painting in here for free i'll let you guys have it in here for free if you'll just put my information underneath it hey i'm gonna go on tick tock and show people the behind the scenes of how i do my artwork and get people excited about it and show them how much work i put into this maybe you start on instagram and try there

because that's a great visual social media place where people are already hanging out and you start using some hashtags there are so many avenues to learn about marketing through youtube linkedin wherever where you can really start to test out where are these people at who really appreciate what i do how about walking into a local art gallery talking to the owner and going hey here's my background 20 years ago

i did this many pieces of art for this company that's impressive that's credible and you go hey can i show you a couple of pieces i got it in the truck and i'm i'm just i want to start putting my stuff back out what kind of deal do you want if you sell it what do you want for it the answer is whatever whatever they say say yes

you got to start showing your work and get it back out there again but i can tell you right now that the fear of rejection and the fear of failure are hanging out on both of ken's shoulders right now yeah and it has clouded his ability to see that he was successful before he could be successful he thought it was well it was my one i did

it back then i'll never do it again it was a stroke of luck yeah you know i've heard dave say this before uh that you know making the second million is easier there's a reason for that you got some history inside of that history are is some skill

inside of that history is some experience and um when we embrace that and go wait

i've done this before i'm not starting from scratch it's not this new thing i know i can do this then all of a sudden

confidence emerges and i think ken the name of your game is confidence you got to get your confidence back up put yourself out there it's worth it because i'm going to tell you right now if you don't do this second time around you're gonna get to the end of your journey and be sick with regret don't regret reminisce go after it put your work out there you got this this is the ramsay show [Music]

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welcome back america you are joining the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell we're taking your calls this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and

we're now gonna go to victorville california where i see on the screen stefan and lisa are on the line george and i'm

told you guys are on the line to do a debt-free scream yes yes oh that's awesome well welcome

thank you so much you bet all right let's get to the story how much debt did you pay off we paid off over 124 000

wow 124 000 okay and uh how long did it

take that took four years of really just hitting it every single paycheck oh yeah that's a lot of money that's unbelievable tell us your range of income during that time we from that time that we started we were about a hundred and fifty thousand and then um ended up at about two hundred and fifty thousand whoa okay we can't go any further i gotta know what led to the hundred thousand dollars in increase

uh my wife had a promotion to be a principal so oh nice very nice by the

way i like what happened there george you know selise was like i'm gonna let you tell him yep way to go lisa how does that feel oh it felt good thank you that's impressive uh all right so

uh tell us what this debt was what made up this 124 thousand dollars that was student loans that i had accrued you know bachelor's degree master's degree my phd i just kind of wrapped it up okay

all right very good and then we had a car loan as well that we were able to pay off all right okay so pretty normal stuff there so take us to four years ago when you guys start this journey what led to this

i think we had done the financial peace

university or early in our marriage and so we knew the the steps and we knew what we needed to do to make it happen

okay and so what was that you kind of knew but was there a moment where he went we've had enough i mean what led to this because this is we're talking about intense 124 thousand dollars over four years i think finally we've seen that uh the student loan was actually due so it made like an impetus that we had to start really attacking it so i made

it our number one goal was to pay as much as possible every month and just attack it you know so you got sick of giving a chunk of money away every month and you went we don't need to do this anymore we make good money we want to live life on our terms and have this money back in our life attacking our goals exactly i love it

so what what did you guys actually do what were the sacrifices you made along the way

the sacrifices were things like cutting back on the big vacations and

uh thinking about refinancing where where we could with our mortgage and getting better rates there so that we would have a better uh monthly mortgage payment and just you know following the the gazelle intensity of paying it down and communicating and knowing that this was our our combined goal to get this out of the way wow so you reallocated a lot of this money that could have gone to a lot of places

and you said nope it's got an assignment it's going to this debt what was uh is there something that sticks out to you all as maybe one of the toughest things you had to deal with it was really really tough maybe maybe it was along the way and you felt like well we're hitting a lull what was a real challenge for you on this journey i think in

the middle it just got kind of hard you know you didn't see that much of an improvement it's you still uh that insurmountable mountain you're climbing but then you just have to keep you know put your head down and just keep moving and trust the process so what was the what do you think the key was the last the last loan for another couple out there who may be where

you guys are at six figures in debt going well we're just going to pay this thing off for 20 years what would you tell that couple the keys to getting out of debt right absolutely what was the key the key was just trying to

do right living like no one else so that we could live like no one else so you had to change your mindset and go we've got to live differently rightly so we can live differently later

so who were your biggest cheerleaders on this journey walking you through this like that middle period stefan that you just mentioned that was so difficult we didn't feel like you were making so much progress who helped keep you in the game

i think we could say our church family that you know started us on fpu so many years ago and then um we were leaders at one point and just

being that example too you know we we can talk it but we had to live it as well walk the talk yeah that's been a theme this year yeah really has definitely so uh george asked you kind of what the key is but as you guys sit here today you're about ready to do this stream how would you encourage um others that are listening because at some point

you all listen to other people do what you're about to do what would you say to them if they feel like they're in this lull or they don't know if they can do it what's your advice to them

just keep keep grinding i mean i mean it looks insurmountable but you know one step at a time and you'll get through it and find that the extra side things that you can contribute to make it a little bit easier like stefan said it's in the middle it's still monotonous and you're looking at the shiny things that you could be spending your money on and you have to just deflect to what

you know would be the right choice yeah wow well let me tell you something you all um you're an inspiration you're heroes you've done something that is very very difficult to do you've shared that story and you stuck together and now you're on the other side of it what does it feel like

such a release such a relief absolutely yeah you've heard dave talk about the grass feeling different is that true what feels different specifically as you guys walk through your everyday life i think not having to worry about extra debt extra payments we have to make you know now it's savings and different other projects we can do and we can save for that yeah that's awesome and uh

i see a picture here uh two kiddos tell us about the kids and and and their ages because we know they're gonna benefit from this unbelievable sacrifice that you've made absolutely we have ryan our son he's now

seven and elizabeth is now four and

they're learning the the system they know that if they don't have the cash we're not going to give them a card wow they should run for congress oh great that'd be great very nice george very nice that's impressive i like that changing a family tree hey uh stephanie lisa we want to gift you with two books uh to uh thank you for sharing your story but also for you all to to keep

moving forward the first is dave's book the legacy journey because that really is the next step for you all on your journey you really are living and giving like no one else the second is we want to give you a copy of dave's wildly popular best-selling book total money makeover and that is a gift for you all to give to somebody else who you can now say hey

this works and we want you to be able to pay that forward in their life as well so we want to give you those uh so yes so we'll

send those out to you all right let's do this stefan and lisa from victorville california they paid off 124 thousand dollars in four years

making 150 000 then up to 250

000 stefan and lisa take it away let's hear your debt free scream two one we're dead free

there it is another couple debt free another student loan bites the dust there it is uh a whole bunch of it too yeah i mean that was a big big chunk of what they paid off that's a chunk of the one point now six trillion dollars sitting out there oh man man oh man and uh you know it's great when you hear the stories but you realize there's kids involved yeah

you know and and these kids are learning to not ever fall into that same trap their mom and dad did but you think about the life that those kids are gonna lead as a result of what their mom and dad did i mean this really is legacy and i love that we give them a copy of the legacy journey because that's what this whole thing is about george yeah they've you've got to teach

these kids this stuff early on and these kids caught it it wasn't just taught they saw mom and dad sacrifice along the way and i doubt they're ever going to touch debt after hearing this story again amazing stuff amazing stuff thank you again stephan and lisa you are heroes thank you for sharing your story countless people will be inspired to do what you did so thank you again very much

he is george campbell i'm ken coleman you're listening to the ramsey show

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welcome back america you are joining the conversation here on the ramsey show uh if you've been paying attention to any news you've probably heard the term the great resignation flying around and uh it's the big name that people are kind of putting on this massive job turnover situation going on uh in this country uh people are saying hey um i

don't like where i am i want to level up i want more out of my work and so

they're leaving looking for something better now you may feel like now is the right time for you as well but if you don't have a clue what you actually want to do then you may not even actually get what you want and move to something that's going to be better for you in the long term you need a plan and you're right work isn't supposed to be a four letter word

you can find work that will leave you feeling energized and fulfilled you can make the income and the impact you want out of the same gig and that's why i wrote my brand new book that reveals to you the clear path to finding and doing work you love from paycheck to purpose we'll walk you through the proven plan that has helped thousands of people find their dream job

and when you pre-order the book today we'll also send you over a hundred dollars in free bonus tools like resume templates guides a video course on how to get hired and beat the competition all of that is going to add value to you

on this journey so get your copy of from paycheck to purpose today at ramseysolutions.com that's ramseysolutions.com the book is from paycheck to purpose triple eight eight two five five five is the number let's go to azure in dallas texas how can we help

hi it's wonderful to talk to you thank you um i i have a small counseling practice up in north texas and i am looking to relocate to east texas in about a year and a half

um and i'm trying to figure out what's the best way to transfer it do i sell it

and free and just restart

move it down there yeah that's that's a very interesting question my question is is have you looked into uh what the details could look like if you were to sell the practice meaning is there any interest who would you approach to see if there is interest where are you on that option

sure so i have two two other therapists that have contracted with me they work underneath me and one of them is a good possibility of possibly wanting to purchase it um and she's she's up and coming and she's dynamite so she would be a good option but i don't know that she would definitely be able to do it in a year and a half yeah yeah well and so when

you talk about counseling practice i mean are you doing much um i don't want to call it telecounseling but i mean are you doing much zoom stuff or is now everything kind of resumed back to in person for you i do a lot of both actually um and

it's been a really good option and having the zoom option has been a really great deal for my clients um i probably care about 20 of my clients online and the other the other 80 or in person yeah i'm gonna

throw another option at you i'm sure you thought of it but i just i'm curious why wouldn't you if you're just simply moving from one part of texas to the other and you already are doing 20 of your counseling online if you will

why wouldn't you keep the practice uh where it is and just open up another office where you are

i have considered that and my concern is that i wouldn't have enough of the client base to to get the revenue that i need to to maintain and to pay for another office space um if that makes sense like in the interim until i build up another another client base in the new location

would it be enough but yes and i have i have thought about you know continuing with some of my current clients online i just know that um the majority of them don't want to do online and they probably would fall off if i you know if i moved okay i totally and i get that sorry yeah but see here's the issue when you're selling a counseling business what are

you really selling you know i'm guessing you don't own your building is that fair that's true i rent office bills yeah so what are you selling in your mind i want you to answer that

so i incorporated i have a pllc

and i have the i have software that is

set up specifically for this practice okay people know this know where it is and they're familiar with the with the name of the practice but it's it's primarily north texas nobody in east texas has ever heard of me right exactly so my point is is if you move to a different part of texas and only 20 of your clients want to continue to do online that means 80 of your clientele has to choose are

they going to keep coming to this practice even though they're not seeing you they're not going to have to choose to see the other two counselors correct that's correct yeah so i guess my point is you've got a challenge in that the person who's interested in buying it isn't going to be able to buy it when you want to move and so i think in this situation

i would probably if you can't get somebody else to buy that software and then uh i mean what else are they buying i just think it's a hard purchase to sell i think it's a hard sell and so

i think i would just wrap it up and uh and i would move on that's what i would do but if you could sell it great sell it but i think that's going to be difficult so i think that you may just end up having to shut it down and then reopen where you move that makes good sense i appreciate the insight yeah yeah you bet thanks for

the call and you know george this is very interesting in this world we live in now you know because of the quality of video conferencing um you know doctors were doing telemedicine that way certainly i think uh counseling is a very intimate setting

um but it is it is possible to do that kind of work now yeah that way if you can do it if you can get clients to do it i like the idea of her not letting go of this quite yet and starting small in her new area and starting to build that up over time and maybe by then there's a buyer or one of her counselors are able to purchase it yeah absolutely let's go to mitchell now in chattanooga tennessee not too far from us here in the nashville area mitchell how can we help

hey thanks for taking my call so um a few months back i used ken's principles and got a new career and that got me out of debt oh i like hearing there we go

yeah so now i can actually start um contributing to the company match 401k since i'm out of babysit three and they have a six percent match so my question is with dave's fifteen percent going into retirement would i do six percent match and then nine percent outside of that or six percent there and then 15 outside of that that's a great

question and in these instances when you've got a company match we look at that as icing on the cake so i still want you investing 15 of your income

into that 401k and if there's a roth option that's even better uh and then take that six percent match as a bonus but no it's not going to be a six and a nine on your part i want you to invest still the full 15 your job could change your life could change the company numbers could change the benefits could change but i want you consistently investing 15 percent okay

and would i do the 15 in the company match on top of the six or would i go through an elp and just do it separately from the company match no they have a 401k correct yes yes yeah so what you want to do there is you'd go up to the match that's six percent then you can open up a roth ira if you don't have one already

and you can work with a smartvestor pro like you mentioned there to get that open and you want to max that out uh the limit is 6000 for most people this year and then you go back to the 401k uh and you can dump money into there and if it's that's if it's not a roth option i assume it's there is no roth option there no it's it's

the target date option as far as i know it's a traditional 401k okay if it's traditional then that's what you do is go to the roth then back to the 401k and finish out your 15

awesome okay thanks you guys thanks so much yeah absolutely congratulations uh what a success story i love it guys got him a new career but by the way that's the bigger shovel yeah that right there if if we can help beat ramsey solutions uh through through the ken coleman show and the resources we've created to get that bigger shovel um let's go because that's an example mitchell got a better gig got promoted

and got out of debt and now he's calling you for investing questions i mean this is what it's about this is the sweet spot when it comes to what we do here ken is when you can intertwine the career side the purpose side with the money side and you realize they actually work hand in hand they do i mean have you ever heard a debt free screen i've not have

you ever heard one where they didn't make at least some more money i mean just some not many times it's substantial where they make more money yeah so making more money is a big part of getting out of debt george and i will take those calls i'll have

i want to thank our producer james hiles our associate producer and call screener kelly daniel and thank you george thanks for hanging with me we want to thank you america for listening because we do it for you this is your show it is the ramsay show [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting for the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show and it's where america hangs out have a conversation about your life your money your work i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell the phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two

five okay so george i gotta get you to weigh in okay on something i saw in the news i don't weigh much but i'll try it

well that's well played sir okay so here's the headline i believe this is wall street journal yeah millennials team up to fulfill the dream of home ownership

burdened by debt and facing soaring home prices first time home buyers are pooling their finances with partners friends or roommates what george this is frightening say it isn't so it is so wall street journal is pretty reputable yeah here's the thing it says the number of co-buyers with different last names increased by 707 percent

between 2014 and 2021. so this isn't

just a 2021 phenomenon this is kind of happening and what's happening is uh millennials are strapped with student loan payments and all kinds of other payments and they can't afford home ownership and they're going to inflation and i live in a high cost of living area and so what do you do ken you call up your buddy and say hey rent is real expensive what if we went in on

this and we became homeowners together okay now let's talk about the nuances there it's not a it's not a spousal situation where you both have the same last name no and as we teach shared assets and all that stuff shared bank accounts these are two completely different individuals so uh two of my favorite fake names to use in these scenarios is bob and larry so let's say sandwich by

the way would do this no millennials on the planet are named bob and larry parents don't name their kids that anymore they don't be robert okay so let's go with let's go with robert and uh randolph perfect and robert and randolph are buddies and they go okay well let's go do this and so they buy a house together what's that look like they're both on the loan yes it's called

the joint tenancy or tenancy in common okay and so it's it happens and it's just two buddies friends they don't have any marital no connection and they just want to own a home and so you can you legally it's possible it's not an illegal thing to do it's totally fine to do but it's a very dangerous move why is it dangerous well um home ownership is a big deal yeah

and when you got your name on the title of that home uh and then you got to go okay who's going to hire the handyman who's going to handle the mortgage payments uh what if one moves away what if one gets married and so what happens is uh there can be a lot of hairy stuff in that relationship that goes down yeah i mean you're stuck i said well robert robert meets a gal

falls i want her to move in you're getting moved out wait wait wait wait wait wait i co-own the house it's just

an and by the way we're at the very top of the onion here we haven't really peeled it there's all kinds of problems here legal mess uh relationship mess i mean it's just a mess but like many things it looks good on paper and you go well financially this is a great move when it comes down to the numbers but when people see this through these rose-colored glasses

and then life happens it gets real messy and i think we're going to see a lot of relationships hurt by this as we try to figure out all the nuances of homeownership with someone that you don't have a real connection with so the moral of the story is please don't fall prey to this supposed good idea

this has just got all kinds of crazy risk attached to it but i mean wow

extreme times it points back to what we're trying to do with this borrowed future documentary help people get rid of their student loans so that they can live the american dream yeah buy your own house yeah i love it home ownership all right let's get to the phones triple eight eight two five five two two five abby is joining us in san francisco california how can we help hey ken hey george all right

thanks for taking my call sure uh yeah so this kind of based on the student loan thing this little like you guys were talking about um so my partner took out loans to go to college and her parents took out 175 000 in parent plus loans so if we get made like combined we'll be making a total of 240 thousand dollars a year so i just wanted to press

this by saying i don't have a problem combining finances paying it fully off when you get married even though it's fair and false i get that um currently her parents are on income-based repayment and they're hoping for loan forgiveness in ten years that their mom is a teacher but like george already talked about everywhere forgiveness chances about like two percent so like what kind of conversation should

i have about boundaries with my partner and their parents like before we get married you are a wise man abby for even having this level of maturity to go i've got to have boundaries i've got to have a hard conversation and so is this a conversation that you and her need to have with her parents or is this how do i have the conversation with her both

i guess i i just i'm just lost as to how to have this conversation because her parents have made it clear that they want to hope for forgiveness in ten years but it's only two percent chance like i don't know what to do yeah well you're not going to be able to convince the in-laws of much that's a difficult thing to do to give them financial advice i've tried that

it did not go well so i'm telling you from experience what you can do is empower your wife and

help her have this conversation with her parents to say hey listen we this was this was loans you took out for me and we want to do an honorable thing and pay these off we don't want you guys to have this on your shoulders and wait a decade as we grow into our adult life and still have these loans hanging around for the hope of forgiveness which we've seen not moving at breakneck speeds even with new legislation

and new presidents i just don't see a day where there were it gets much better than this and so i think you're doing the wise thing by having the conversation but i think you need to have it with her and not go directly to

the the in-laws or future in-laws

so then if they want they're older should they want to retire so i'm sure so won't it come back down onto us later

on anyway like i'm just trying to understand you're saying what do you do once you guys are married what do you do then financially if you want to pay them off no not that like if if our parents want to retire right they can't retire when they have this kind of loan where they'd have to pay income based repayment plans so like how would that affect us

because it'll come back down to on to us what not no i mean it's her parents took this out and so when what happens is when the student applies for a loan and can't get it then it turns into the parent plus loan if the parent is willing to take it on solo so normally a parent can cosign for the loan meaning hey you're both on the hook

and if if abi doesn't pay then it goes to the parent but in this case the parent is fully on the hook so that's the scary part with these parent plus loans is the parents are trying to do the best thing for their kid and set them up but then they can't retire and so what happens is the kids then have to help the parents in retirement

and it really creates a bad bad situation so you guys have a fantastic income and i think it's really honorable that you're wanting to pay these loans off even though they're not in her name and so i think if she has that conversation maybe you sit down with her if they're willing to have it together and you say hey listen here's what we want to do once we're married

we want to tackle her loans and we really appreciate what you guys have done to allow her to go to school but we want to take these on and help get this thing out of our lives and we don't want to wait a decade yeah and again i think that having her be the one that cast this vision because it's her parents yeah and tied it into their retirement

and the way they want to finish out not from the son-in-law yeah stay out of it the parent plus loans huge high interest rate i don't want you waiting 10 years and then nothing happens and run the numbers show them the numbers yeah of how it's going to actually turn out good stuff george thank you for the call avi all right don't move folks more of your calls right around

the corner this is the ramsey show [Music] [Applause]

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ken coleman

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the ramsay show continues thrilled to have you with us i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague none other than george camel and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five i gotta tell you something i've never told you before oh boy i really enjoy saying your last name wow that means a lot yeah camel thank you by the way tell people how it's spelled if they're new to you it's with a k a-m-e-l like the animal and i

will say ken i do have a middle eastern background that's a shock to a lot of people based on my uh complexion

you said that i just came back from cabo after a week oh you did i don't think i'm even one percent tanner did you soak in 75 sunscreen well it was about 100 degrees in full sun i didn't want to come back crispy you know okay i burn easily do you tan no so you have a very

light complexion and that's just your deal and you're going with it that's just my deal fantastic hey uh if you aren't strapped with student loan payments odds are you know someone who has millions are putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck or even worse they're waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness which by

the way is a total joke our team has produced a new documentary called borrowed future and it's out now it uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you you'll see dave ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program along with featured interviews from industry insiders we're coming at this crisis hard folks

we're taking big swings at the student loan problem with the goal to armed parents and students across the country with the truth which is you do not

have to take out loans to get a college education you can graduate debt-free and avoid the predatory student loan industry borrowed future is available for streaming now go watch on apple tv

amazon prime video google play or go to the website borrowed future dot com that's borrowed future dot com you're excited about this because you you kind of were involved in the precursor yes with the podcast and a lot of the stories started there and you'll hear some of that but i'm just so passionate about this topic as we dug into it uh this was two years ago

and we just did a bonus episode for the podcast and uh surprisingly not much has changed in the student world the student loan world can in two years forgiveness hasn't budged much the legislation hasn't budged much a few of the players in the game like navient they're getting out but it still doesn't give me a ton of hope i still would say stay away don't recommend 100

because i will tell you right now i don't mind saying this i think that whole forgiveness language and conversation is a carrot to get more people to jump in well they're going to forgive it so this is free money and waiting watch the documentary if you said hey you can have it but you need to wait 10 years tell that to an 18 year old 22 year old that's a lifetime yeah

it really is so it's a lifetime for me my goodness oh thank you just not interested no no no triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number let's go to gainesville georgia incidentally george where i started my radio career look at wdun was the radio

station where i started out so i love gainesville georgia ashton joins us there ashton how can we help hey i just wanted to say first and foremost i'm a huge fan i've been listening since i was in high school wow um and i've been following uh for the past five years because i graduated 2016 has uh been doing my dave

ish plan and i have recently just come to realize that dave ish doesn't work and it's all or nothing and um so with that i have a huge question i'm currently in baby step two

and i'm also cash flowing my way through school no student loans or anything but i do have just shy of 20 grand in debt

um with a household income of right

under 40k i want to say it's like 39.5 is what right about what i bring in what kind of debt is the 20 grand so 10 3 of it is a car loan and then the

rest of it is just multiple credit cards kind of spread out between different credit cards

and my big question with that is do i

need to put a hold on school to finish baby step two or do i finish cash flowing my way through in this degree that i started as uh i'm

not even sure if this is the field i want to go in or

not i'm not sure where to go so all right so let's press pause on the on the uh money question and because i think this is going to tie in if you're not entirely sure i want to know what you percentage you would put on it right now is it 50 50 is it 80 20 70 30 as to

how sure you are that this degree you're in right now is not the direction you want to go hit me straight as far as as far as it's a business management degree that i'm working on right now and as far as percentage-wise and

everything like that goes i'm looking at like i'm like 70 30 70 30. not pursuing that direction

the 30 would be in the knot the 70 is in

the end uh as far as pursuing it so he's

leaning towards a yes oh you're okay i i confused myself here you are leaning towards moving into business management type work correct it's really just a

with how broad of an umbrella the degree is and everything like that i'm not sure where specifically and there i want to go i do have about a about 14 months

yeah of management experience that shift leading count hey ashton i gotta tell you right now i would press pause on cash flowing to school and i'd crush the deck because i'm gonna tell you right now uh you don't need a degree to get into business management you already said you got 14 months of experience leading um

you know uh you could go get a job two jobs increase your income which gets you out of debt faster and get in a situation where you're following somebody and there's an opportunity there's a ladder there for you to step up into leadership you don't need a degree to get into leadership so i would press pause there's just too much unknowns right now for you to be taking that valuable cash and cash flowing a super general degree

for sure the only reason that i uh that i have that experience i've been working uh in the food business for a while um and everything and i uh my fiance and i welcomed our son into the world back in 2019 and i jumped up uh you jumped up the chain just a little bit just bring in a little extra money but that jump forward put me in a bind on the

family end and every schedule it felt like it drove a wedge into that and everything and so it was like it was like i was doing my calling but in the wrong area and i don't know quite where that area okay we're gonna lock in we're gonna lock in right here ashton you just led to it you felt like you were doing your calling but in the wrong place

i like to call that you're doing the right thing in the wrong place i'm guessing the hours in the food service industry and all that was just crushing the relationship i get that because you got a little one now so is leading and managing people that's what you love to do that yes okay so so hold on

hold on i want you to focus on something very clearly if you can lead people and manage people and develop people help them win in the food industry can you not do the same thing in other industries yes or no for sure for sure i like that answer george confident all right so george let's now so here's the deal ash i'm gonna turn you over to george i want you to press pause on this degree right now i'm not saying don't go back and finish it but i'm saying you can move up professionally even now

because you've got leadership experience he's got 20 grand to pay off george yeah at this point is your fiance working

she is in about 1400 a month 1400 a month and that's on top of the 40 that you're bringing in a year correct okay well if either of you can get a second job i want to tackle this thing if you're going to pause school then we need to go really hard at this debt if you were going to continue school i'd say all right well continue through school cash flow that

and then tackle this debt as soon as you graduate but if we're pausing school we've gotta get gotta get rid of this debt i mean this is half of your income tied up and credit cards and car loans maybe see how much the car is worth you can drive a beater for a while and get this debt uh payoff cut in half i'm all for that and here's

the deal they're gonna knock out the 20 grand pretty quick school will still be there okay but this is the greatest priority and i think it's going to put some attention on how i can get where i want to get minus the degree and leading people well you don't have to have a degree to lead people come on get after it young man your future is waiting for

you don't move he is george campbell i'm ken coleman you're listening to the ramsay show

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the ramsey show continues i'm kid coleman joined by my colleague george campbell and we're taking your calls this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five how many of you out there want to get a bigger shovel so you can fast forward the process of getting out of debt we can help with that that is a particular area of focus for me george and i will team up on those uh

if you're feeling like hey i'm just not doing work that i enjoy at all we're taking those calls of course that's what i do on the ken coleman show and then george is going to answer your money questions he's ready to go as always and um we love doing this we are

here because we really enjoy coaching you up so let's go triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and in

the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage i see jason and stacy how are you good how are you you guys are here to do a debt free scream i love it where are you guys from booneville indiana okay very nice all right tell us give us the numbers how much did you pay off we paid off 68 thousand dollars how long

about three years and five months three years five months and what was your range of income 98 000 to about 110. 98 to 110 what do

you guys do i'm a service man for water utility okay great and i'm a third grade public school teacher oh okay very nice but you have to have a lot of energy don't you to keep up with third graders for sure

i love it okay so what kind of debt was the 68 000 we were super normal we had credit cards

student loans truck payment car payment 401k loan medical bills just a little bit of everything i think so george did she leave anything out that was like the potpourri of debt right there very impressive that is awesome i love it so what happened three years ago where you guys said now not doing this anymore we're getting debt free well i had had a really long day at school one day

and i needed to stop at target and get some things for school the next day for a science experiment and i just blindly grabbed some things and i went through the checkout and my debit card was declined and i wasn't even mad of course i didn't think it was my fault i thought there's something wrong with this machine and i just used my credit card and went to my car

and i thought you know i'm going to pull up our accounts just to be sure that everything's fine and all i saw was red like everything was negative he had no clue i had no clue and what really just

got me was that we were in a normal time we hadn't had any extra expenses or anything come up and i just had no clue and i thought we are too far along in our career and we work way too hard for us to have no money where is all of our money going and so i just said we have got to do something different wow so jason what'd

she say to you and how did you respond i don't even remember what it was but you know it was basically we have no money yeah and what are you saying do something yes yeah and then and so at what point uh do you introduce the financial peace university the ramsey solution stuff and what was the was it fpu was it the total

money makeover what what was the uh the starting point well what's funny is i owned the total money makeover but i never read it oh i've read it multiple times since yeah um but a couple of our really good friends had the home study kit for fpu and had offered it to us and so when i got home that night i texted her and i said please bring me

this kit we are ready and i we started the next night okay and i'm i'm reading by the body language here jason that you were all you weren't pushing back you were like oh no yeah if we're gonna do it we're gonna do it that's amazing what's that what's that feel like each of you comment on that when each of the spouse you realize hey we're not fighting against each other on

this we're joining arms here oh that's a great feeling yeah it made all the difference really because i was i was so upset with myself and i feel like he easily could have been upset with me for for having this hole that he really didn't even know about um but he definitely showed a lot of grace and he he kind of owned his part of you know

he kind of never paid attention to our finances and so when i came to him and i said i've been doing this on my own for a really long time but obviously i'm not very good at it and we need to do this together and and he agreed and he said you're right so you would you guys went from problem unaware you didn't even know you were broke to solution focus real quick

you went zero to sixty three years five months ago what made you guys just go all right game on nothing's stopping us um i think when we people look at us and have have told us before you know you don't really seem like the kind of people that are in debt and and we didn't think we were either we're not fancy people i mean at all and

so but when you list out your debt um

one of my favorite podcasters says you gotta know where your fist is gonna land when you're punching it in the face and that's true when you list out all your debt and we totaled 68 000 i mean we were blown away and so we knew we had to get serious wow unbelievable so what did you actually do what were the tactical sacrifices you made to get rid of this debt in three years and five months

basically nothing extra nothing no frills yeah none at all we did so much budgeting and i became really good at meal planning and freezer meal cooking and we we cut out all the fat all the subscriptions the pandemic helped you know nobody did anything we didn't go anywhere we both were very fortunate to have jobs that were very secure you know all through that time and so we just used that time to kind of to kind of keep us rolling forward and um we just

locked arms and put our head down and said we're getting this done what kind of what kind of meals are we talking about did we have a lot of rice and beans or did you get a little bit uh yeah we had a little bit of chicken and pork and there we go with that rice you know i mean that's the key is changing out the protein he's willing to sacrifice

but he's not going vegan yeah right and potatoes yeah yeah that's that's a sturdy man over there he's not gonna go vegan yeah you guys got a raise along the way what happened there with the increase well um as a teacher i don't get many races right you know he does and then i also just side hustled like crazy tutoring summer school i sell avon pet

sitting dog sitting house sitting we just anything we could what was the most lucrative side gig um i think teaching summer school actually there's not a lot of things that teachers can do for their hourly rate but summer school is one of them and so it's a lot of hard work it's intense it's a short amount of time um but it was it was good money for what for

the work so gave up a summer that's that's two summers actually two wow so bless our teachers yeah absolutely well you guys have done it so what would you say is the key to making it through this journey well just helping each other being there and being willing to work together i listen to that question asked a lot because i listen to the podcast all the time um

and i always agree with everything that everyone says and i would add to that consistency you know it's not just about um budgeting or communication for one month or for three months or for six months it's about the consistency for month after month year after year we still create a unique monthly written budget every single month we just have a different relationship with money now and so

it just takes that consistency and if we can do it anyone can do it we were team tiny shovel and we did it so anyone can do it you did it and did you bring someone with you today we what do we have we brought our son wyatt he does not really want to come up on he doesn't have to he'll be 14 next week you just explained everything yeah

i i totally now get it my kids only want to be seen in the same zip code with me much less a stage so i get that well hey real quick before you do your screen we want to give you two things one the copy of dave's uh latest book the legacy journey that's the next stage for use you guys really build legacy um and so we want to give that to

you and also a copy of the total money makeover for you to gift to somebody else so we want to give you that uh as a gift and appreciation for sharing your story all right here we go you guys ready to roll okay we've got jason and stacy from evansville indiana

area they paid off 68 thousand dollars in three years and five months making 98

000 to 110 000 jason and stacy take it away let's hear your debt free screen three three two

one we're debt-free yes you are i like that perfect unison

very good phonetical uh you know kind of strategy there teachers are great communicators i expect nothing less they are you know what i love about this particular story because you know obviously with a lot of couples we go i love that like their story was they both realized at the same time had no clue but both also decided come on let's go yes there wasn't any hanging on any arguing

and it was like no let's go dude it tells me there was a healthy marriage there to start very healthy and even healthier now that is really awesome stuff wow that's why we do we do george i love it never gets old no it does not tell you what else doesn't get old the show the ramsay show don't move we're coming right back [Music]

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welcome back to the ramsay show where we hope you get where you want to go in your money in your work in your relationships we're helping you live the life that you want through practical steps triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number i'm ken coleman and i'm joined this hour by my colleague george campbell we're thrilled that you have joined us blinds.com uh blinds.com that was

i don't know why i struggled to say that george 100 satisfaction guarantee means that even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color which i would mismeasure george that's that type too you you and me no chip gains yeah exactly so this is why blinds.com blinds.com rather is where you want to go they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos

they run every month you'll save even

more make sure you use the promo code ramsay to get the best deal today's question comes from jessa in michigan i am a loan officer at a credit union and i absolutely love my job but i also am

on the dave ramsey plan and have i have fell in love with teaching your concept to our members about getting out of debt i feel like a hypocrite because basically my job involves me creating debt do you have any advice for us who are stuck in corporate america i feel like i am not part of the solution to money issues but have become part of the problem what fields can

i pursue so i can become a solution well it sounds to me like jessa really enjoys the financial industry yeah and so she's she's obviously because she believes in in what we teach at ramsey solution there is a conflict there now first we start with jessa you aren't part of the problem you aren't a bad person you are not doing anything that's unethical or illegal however i understand that

the values disconnect so if you love finances the planning the strategy the numbers and all that kind of stuff and you want to help people win financially that doesn't involve debt i'm looking at uh

one of our smart vester pros you know you know our system i really want you to reach out to somebody uh in our in your area that's a smart investor pro and go hey ken coleman i was the ramsay show they read my thing and told me to call you guys i think about moving into your side of things because i want to help people win with money not get weighed down with money and i think coffee lunch

a phone call to learn a little bit more about the investment side of things financial planning certainly financial coaching is an option working for an organization that

has good products and services that

better people's lives and maybe you work in the finance side of that company what i'm trying to say here is there's a whole lot of opportunities for you you don't have to feel as though you are painted in the credit union corner you can do a lot of what you like to do in a lot of different places and she's saying she's a loan officer and she loves her job

and if you do that i mean we have our friends at churchill mortgage they're helping people get mortgages the right way that's right so i think it's a great opportunity if you work for you maybe you are a mortgage loan officer you help people understand the right way to get into a house that isn't going to bury them and so you go hey i want you to do

this there's a great way to do this here's the kind of down payment here's what kind of mortgage loan i would steer you to and here's why to where she can actually help people that's right do it the ramsey way and do it uh financially that's a very good point george she may be able to stay in the credit union if it's a perspective change don't push somebody to a bad product

but if you're getting pressure to push to a bad product then she's making car loans all day i get it yeah but if you want if you love the loan industry i think mortgages might be something that she could get into where she could really help people yeah and really guide people to do it the right way really good stuff there all right let's get back to

the phones triple eight eight two five five two two five robert joins us in albuquerque new mexico robert how can we help

how are you doing all well we're having a blast what's going on

every day is a good day um i just had a question i have uh you know where i work now i make good money and me and my wife are you know pretty much get well not pretty much we're debt-free except for our mortgage okay and uh the problem is is the company i'm working for basically you know got rid of all the people that started the company

and then now the new owner is wanting me because i'm outside self wanting me to do like things that i don't agree with that to me you know down gouge our customers and i don't agree with it okay so they got rid of everyone else and those people are starting a new company and they want me to go there well i'm leaving a six figure job to go

there and then start over but i don't know if you know my wife thinks it's a you know she doesn't know if it's a good idea or not but morally i can't i just i can't do it right well i'm not

into that that's not because i'm in construction just to kind of give you a little yeah well you're a good man robert you're a good man and um you've got a decision before you one way or the other so you and your wife got to sit down and go okay one way or the other i can't keep doing this i think the million-dollar question for you robert is how much longer can

you do it are you at a point where you feel like each day that you stay here and you're asked to do something you don't agree with it's like could you last 30 days doing this i don't think the answer is yes but i want to know what you how long can you last until you find something else to step into if we don't take this startup opportunity

i want to leave it today can you do that financially i have a lot of regular

customers that you know i'm charging them double what i did before right and it's just not right okay so they're just making more money right so but financially you can't walk today did i hear you say that yeah i mean now i mean my wife makes good money too so i think you could you don't have any debt you don't have any debt we have six months of our reserve yeah well

i don't want you i don't want you to necessarily use that my question is can you live off of your wife's salary for 30 days 60 days

probably not okay so here's the deal you're going to have to you got to be a big boy you got to be grown up here and so i think it comes down to doing your homework and finding out what would you make is it straight commission if you go with the startup all these people you used to work with yes okay so you one way or the other it's like you can't be without pay for 30 day uh well for 60.

you know you don't think you can get back to six figures in no time

i think so well you got to show her that robert this this is a safety issue your wife doesn't feel safe you've got to show her how i know but listen but the good that's good news and bad news bad news is your wife doesn't feel safe the good news is all you have to address is their safety so you got to sit down with her with a good old-fashioned piece of paper

and pencil and go with the 10 to 15 going with me over here this is where i'm realistically going to be in the first three to six months it's going to pinch us maybe a little bit but we're in no way we're no way near any kind of danger

and you show her how long it's gonna take to get where it's going and you have a conversation where she goes oh okay i feel safe and reminder we've got six months in our emergency fund yeah we have no consumer debt you're positioned we can do this you absolutely can do this uh yeah i would do that tomorrow like i'd do it today end of business if

i talk to my wife first i want the wife to feel safe sorry smart man i did get a little excited about like getting married ken 23 years which is why men did what i said there talk to the wife then submit the resignation that's the order of that hey uh good stuff george thanks man always fun i want to thank our producer james childs and our associate producer

and call screener kelly daniel and we want to thank you america this is your show it is the ramsay show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life your money your work your relationships

it's all on the table we want to help you and the way we do it is just good old-fashioned conversation coaching you up giving you some practical steps to take that you can do because it is up to you and i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague fellow ramsey personality george campbell with a k by the way k-a-m-e-o

thank you for that ken can i just say i always appreciate when you call me a colleague it just feels i feel very my back straightens up yeah i've better posture you know why that is why is that because you're a millennial i'm an i think colleague is a term that you are only vaguely familiar with so when i say it it has a little extra punch to

it although it just means co-worker it feels old-timey in a good way it is i'm a little bit of an old soul kelly's looking at me like she's irritated should i should i retire colleague

no boy oh she's oh you're irritated at george thank you very much okay because i feel like colleagues two exercises this is too classic guys yes yes and kelly and i are almost like exactly the same age i would have thought kelly was much younger way way younger nice move george

well played i'm mostly just scared of kelly so just trying to earn the brownie points where i can as you should all right let's get to the phones hazard kentucky oh that's cool

josh is on the line and has well i love saying this and hazard josh is there josh how can we help yes i'm actually currently in baby step two uh me and my wife we make around eighty thousand dollars a year right before i started the baby steps we bought a uh property which was adjoining a uh development area which was eventual tourism and myers where really it's a rural area uh long story short it took

off very well this and the county government has actually got a grant for their side of the adventure terrorism for like 1.5 million and they're making a lodge and right now like i said i'm on baby step two we're working the plan uh we're just kind of my first cabin i built i ended up doing some rentals there uh kind of want to see where i need to go

if it should be right to build another cabin now or wait till we get finished the bank has actually i spoke with them they're open with doing another one but i understand you know it's hard to get out of a uh hole with a very small shovel at the same time if you're digging deeper so so you are taking out loans to build these cabins yes it was

before we started any type of baby steps or anything and you're saying hey should i go build another cabin if it's going to mean taking out another loan yes that's the only thing i don't really want to go through with that but at the same time like i've turned away like 30 people the last month for bookings on my cabin so you're seeing the dollar signs going man

i got to get another cabin asap i can make some money yeah how much debt do you have uh minus my mortgage and the vacation rental i've got about forty thousand forty consumer event yeah it's a couple cars and then a personal loan and one credit card okay and what uh do you have any business debt uh yes for the land the property we bought in the cabin

it was uh we owed about 50 58 000 i think on that

how much about 80. how much are you clearing josh on this one cabin rental that's just hot hot hot um i'm clearing uh a route thousand

dollars a month on it so

yeah yeah but i mean you haven't gotten into any repairs that thousand dollars a month that's not a whole lot when you think about upkeep and stuff like that that's 12 grand a year so it's not a it's not a money making scheme yeah so the answer is no you're not going to go into debt for another one you're not even making enough money to get that excited

i mean i understand it's kind of nice to see it all booking up and stuff like that but the reality is you're clearing right now and when i ask you clearly i mean are you working in expenses to that like upkeep and repairs yeah okay but even at that 12 grand a year i mean

and you've got almost a hundred thousand dollars in debt from your consumer debt plus the business debt and this is outside of the rental correct in your home yeah that yes okay well that just my just the consumer debt which i'm not adding in you know the whole business yeah about 40 000.

all right and that's kind of why i felt too but it felt good to hear from somebody else yeah thanks for the call josh and here's the deal you can knock this out and once you knock this personal debt out knock that cabin out now all of a sudden uh you've got some real uh wealth building opportunity here

and and and then then expand that business because clearly it's working and so that's a positive asset in the sense that okay we've got something to build off of but don't don't take the temptation to take on more debt yeah yeah that's a good move but he's got he's got some good things going on but again when i hear credit cards and the cars and personal loans

it feels like things are out of whack right now we've got to clean up the mess before we can focus on growing the business uh george i was going to ask you this um are you sensing because i know you look into consumer stuff as well are you sensing any trend here on are we going to see used car cost kind of slow down feels like they're pretty high a premium right now is that going to change anytime soon am

i reading anything my prediction is in 2022 we're going to see things level out a little bit we're not going to see this craziness where used cars are going for you know 30 more than they would have 18 months ago as the supply chain starts to fix itself when we see more new cars in the market the used cars will get a little less attractive and so right now

if you've got car debt now is the time to look into some of these sites like vroom and carvana carmax dealerships even facebook marketplace i've been hearing crazy stories of people listing their car on facebook marketplace and dealers from different states are contacting them and they're legit and they're saying we'll give you way over uh your offer oh so you're saying to go to a car dealer which is traditionally an awful idea

because they give you way less yeah kelly and listing on facebook marketplace and the dealer reaches out to you so you're getting kelly blue book value from car dealers oh yeah even more oh they're desperate out there this this is why crazy this is why i'm just a consumer's friend right i'm a nerd good stuff hey don't move more of your calls coming up he's george campbell i'm ken coleman

and this is the ramsey show

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welcome back america you are joining the conversation here on the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined by george campbell as we take your questions this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five the number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five now of course we take your calls but we also get you know a show this large tremendous amount of social media questions um

and i should mention if you want to follow george and i on the gram as the kids call it instagram do cats call i don't think kids call it that but i'll give it to you i did that i knew i was gonna anytime you say as the kids call it just know it's not what they well i you know i slipped into dad mode there george

because i have three teenagers and i do that and recently the team got me on tick-tock that's right and i don't do anything over there so this is not like go follow me over there because i the team does it and you know we're kind of you know dabbling into some content there you're not doing dance challenges don't be excited we had a post that went kind of nuts

and i came home that day and i told my kids hey uh so dad's pretty big on the talk and dude they were so irritated with just like you are right now yeah that i called it the talk but it's not the gram either no it's instagram yeah at george campbell at george campbell with a k and that ken coleman yeah yeah also with a k

coleman with a c thank you jerry she just confused everybody yeah we got a lot ramsay has a lot i don't have many fans but the ramsey brand we get a lot of social media questions we love them and you've got a very interesting one right now yes we've got a great question from joel on facebook and here's what joel asked i got hit in the t-mobile data breach earlier

this year and i keep getting weird voicemails and texts from random companies should i be worried about id theft that's a great question ken if you didn't hear about this back in august t-mobile had a data breach that affected almost 50 million customers i think i remember i think i remember seeing a headline yeah so this is scary stuff a lot of data breaches out there at some point your life you're going to be a part of a data breach

i mean a lot of major companies very scary really yeah but here's the thing let me explain to you and this will answer joel's question a data breach is different from identity theft so data breach just means that your information was exposed so there was a security breach and your personal confidential information is out there someone may have access to maybe your birthday your email address maybe your social security number your street address things like that

but it doesn't turn into identity theft until someone actually uses that private information for their financial gain and i experienced identity theft did you i had uh someone opened up an att account a verizon account under my name using my nashville address but they did it in boston with my social security number and wrapped up seventeen hundred dollars on what was this this was uh back in 2014 was

it uh did they at least uh re

um when they stole your identity were they like a six foot five i was hoping i don't know if they ever found the person but here's the thing uh it was very scary because you go this person has my very personal information they used it against me to create this debt in my name that's crazy obviously i didn't have to pay it but they racked up 1700 on both accounts uh and the good news is i was working at ramsey at the time i had id theft protection through xander dave gets that for all the employees but here's some things that joel can do because i think it's a it's a legitimate worry to have i don't want you to get paranoid about identity theft you can sleep sleep easy at night but here's some things that you can do number one is check your credit report what's really interesting right now is the bureaus are offering free weekly reports through april 20th 2022.

normally you can access them once a year for free right now they're doing it weekly uh through 2022 april 20th uh 2022 thanks to kovitz so that's one thing you can do check for any suspicious activity there another thing you can do and i did this after identity theft is freeze your credit so call up uh contact the three credit bureaus and make sure you freeze your credit that's equifax experian transunion what that means is no one's going to be able to open up an account

because it's frozen you might have to lift it temporarily right temporarily if you're you know applying for an apartment and there's a hard inquiry if you need to do a check like that another thing you can do beef up your password game right most of us we don't we can't remember our passwords we use the same one on everything oops and that's a dangerous move is it

because if they get your your password for your t-mobile account that might be the same one for your email and now they access a whole web of things and so make sure you're using strong passwords uh use a password manager james child's a producer loves a good password manager that's another thing you can do he does he strikes me as a privacy nerd yeah another thing have

you heard of this two-factor authentication um is that the deal where

this is gonna have to get a cell phone number well yeah so you can do different things see smarty pants i actually knew a little a little bit you've got a password but you also have to verify it through maybe a text message opening up a smartphone app or a physical security key so those are all great things but the number one thing i tell you to do to sleep easy is just get identity theft protection it's super cheap for an individual it's

you know it's the cost of a latte and for a family it's the cost of a pizza per month to stay protected and what this does this i didn't i didn't know this xander does all the work for me they do and so they're they're 24 7 365 support

and they will cover up to a million dollars for stolen funds and expenses and there's proactive monitor monitoring and alerts so i love this i sleep easy at night now i haven't had identity theft since and i do these other things you know i freeze my credit i make sure my passwords are strong and i use two-factor authentication so that in case of a breach it doesn't create identity theft yeah

i got to tell you george i feel much better because when you started off on this whole deal about data breach i thought somebody was going to break into the studio cut some guys in some black suits and you know the aviator glasses it sounds very very scary but i do recall that each month you know i'm not a fan of email but i do get an email from xander

and i click on it it tells me and they'll let you know hey your email was compromised um go change your password here and i go oh thank you zan i would have had no idea yeah so it there's it's a great feature and there's a lot of things you can do to protect yourself don't freak out joel but make sure that you're doing these things good stuff good question

thanks george good stuff there megan is up now in green bay wisconsin megan how can we help hi i am so honored to talk to you guys

well thank you what's going on all right so my husband has been employed for 20 years with a spin company longer than we've been married actually um and his employer is implementing a surcharge on insurance costs for those who are not receiving the covered chat um which we definitely do not want and so we're trying to figure out we

don't know how much the surcharge is going to be and we're just looking for some guidance as to where to go from here if we should just kind of wave the boat or if he should maybe just start looking a little bit to see what else is out there in case it gets you know let me ask you this if this wasn't coming down the pike would he be thinking about moving on

no he really likes what he does yeah

um i this is i'm gonna try to not get involved in this emotionally and and help you walk through this um because on one hand you guys don't want to get it you don't want to get the shot and uh on the other hand you don't want to you know get hit really hard and take on an expense like this and he wasn't looking wasn't thinking about looking prior to this so this really puts you in a tough situation but i think this comes down to to your priorities

and uh you know i think at the end of the day they need to tell you what the what the cost is going to be and then you weigh the cost literally weigh the cost okay in order to stay in this job that he really enjoys there's going to be an added monthly expense now that i'm getting hit with

how long is that going to last we don't know the answer to that you know is it going to be uh forever you know who knows i think you have to weigh that um while you're weighing that and waiting for that information i would be looking though i'll tell you that yeah there's two pieces of this there's the ethical component of do i want to work for a place that has

these values and if overall he agrees with them ethically and he goes all right this is something i got to deal with and uh it basically you know turns into a 200 pay cut right if it's 10 15 bucks a month now if it's i can't imagine it's anything large i'm not gonna charge you a hundred dollars i would hope not but then you weigh it and go all right am

i willing to take this little pay cut uh to stay at a job that i truly love and this is just an annoyance that i'm gonna deal with as part of it but if you're like hey i can't agree with them ethically anymore i've gotta leave that's your decision that you have to make yeah yeah i i think this is tough um

and i gotta tell you now that i think about it george you know i i wouldn't be surprised if it's not a hefty bump because i'm going to tell you what this amounts to this is a penalty and companies are saying we think everybody should be vaccinated and we're telling you that you need to uh because i think delta airlines came out they were the first i think major company for

this kind of thing was like hey we're going to hit you with a with a premium uh on your healthcare because of all the uh the implications they're saying yeah but i think it comes down to a penalty and i don't know it may not be it may not be insignificant it may be a significant number and in that case unfortunately turns into a budget line item your values

and your money are driving this decision and if you got to move on you got to move on hey don't move on because we've got more of your calls coming up this is the ramsay show

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welcome back america you are joining the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell and we're here for you this hour it is a free phone call triple eight eight two five five two two five and george this is uh it's our favorite part of the show looking out there in the ramsey solutions lobby on the debt free stage i see brandon and makayla

welcome thank you hello yeah where are you guys from we're from paducah paducah kentucky all right and uh if you're on that stage that means you're here for a debt free screening yes sir fantastic how much debt did you pay off we paid off 25 500 and then we also had a baby in the middle of that whoa congratulations thank you how old is the baby she's six months old six months are you sleeping actually yes she sleeps really well she sleeps that really she sleeps that's fantastic okay so twenty five thousand five hundred dollars how long did it take ten months ten months and what was the range of income it started at a hundred thousand and then it's up to 115.

a cpa office oh nice okay fantastic so

great income here um and uh what kind of debt was the 25 500

um everything it was a car loan student

loans credit card we financed some flooring some carpet everything really

okay all right are you happy with the flooring choice i love it i love it

it's paid for now that's right it's paid for so i hope you're happy probably feels a little bit better to walk on wonderful yeah i thought that might be the case okay uh so ten months ago

uh did you know about ramsey solutions financial peace the total money makeover what what led you to start this journey

you can take it okay uh so i had actually known about dave ramsey for a while um i had i had done fpu probably two or three times okay and i knew how it worked i just never did it never really i guess was motivated to do it and i guess it was towards the end of december of last year we were like okay we're really going to do

this so we downloaded every dollar app and we started doing it for real and then we got pregnant yeah yeah how did that how did that what because you'd already started it then you find out you're pregnant well did that intensify it we found out we're pregnant in what august oh we started in january oh i'm with you i got you do you think that may have been

the domino that i think yeah i think it was definitely a big factor yeah just to be prepared for when she was here yeah sure so what were the things you guys did because that's a pretty big chunk even of your income in 10 months to pay off were there some sacrifices did you sell anything get extra jobs uh well i mean we sacrificed eating out which

we love to do yeah come on no um we did sell an older vehicle that we had for what was it five thousand but everything else was just hard at it just get after us what was what was uh what was maybe one

of the most difficult things to kind of say no to or maybe one of the most difficult things to do in the middle of this journey you want to answer that nope you can oh geez you guys are so polite i feel like you guys need paddles not really so you guys can determine who's going next i like that yeah um i would say the hardest thing was probably

you know we had friends that hey you want to go do this you want to go do that we're going to go here it's like oh man we can't do that yeah wow i get that so did you have cheerleaders were they cheering you on or do they think you were weirdos for doing this thing crazy yeah weirdos uh actually our biggest cheerleader was my younger brother which

we kind of got into this and we gave him our older what was it

financial peace total money makeover i'm sorry okay and he was kind of hesitant at first and he got really into it and he was cheering for us the whole time so now he's doing it so that's incredible i love that what do you what would you tell people is the key to winning this

waking up every day and making the decision of i'm going to choose to be debt-free i'm going to choose to not live like i did before yeah and consistency consistency consistency and communication that's a theme right here consistency and communication i love that wake up every day and choose to be debt free it's a daily decision you can't just decide once and then keep living your life

the way you were living you've got to make some changes change some habits make some sacrifices like you guys did absolutely incredible so how does it feel now wonderful amazing absolutely wonderful yeah you could see it so how has it changed you're a young couple how has it changed your outlook on the future now on the other side of this you're now debt free what's it done for your vision for

the things you're dreaming about i mean you know it's it's kind of nice to wake up in the morning and not like you know on fridays when we get paid it's like okay we get to keep this you know it's not like it's going everywhere else and now we've got a little girl that you know she gets to grow up and we get to race her in

the way that we've now been taught and it's just endless opportunities really and now you can eat out again what's your what's the spot yeah that's what i wanted free where did you go what was the meal we haven't have it yet yeah we're planning on doing that this weekend oh this weekend okay so really seriously you've not been out to eat in in 10 months not nope not really are

you guys going to stay over are you going back to paducah we're here for the weekend so as much as we can george i feel like during the break you should go give them some suggestions you're mister you're mr uh millennial no this is my nashville

eateries george please do they haven't been inside a restaurant for 10 years 10 months ken i gotta tell like ten years like george is so fired up he's gonna give you so many great suggestions i'm gonna leave now please do and we gotta get to the screen first that's the best part well absolutely so uh wow wow wow what a great story well hey couple things before

we get to the screen uh we want to give you a copy of dave ramsey's the legacy journey because this really is now the next step for you guys truly building a legacy not with just that beautiful little princess but in everything you do who you give to and how you spend that money uh so we want to give that to you and then i love that

you gave a total money makeover to your brother because we're going to give you a brand new copy uh to give to somebody else and so that is our gift and we want to give that to you so that is just really good stuff you guys are a great couple thank you you guys are heroes and uh this is why we do what we do we're ready to celebrate

you guys ready to go ready ready to go okay here we go brandon and mikayla from paducah kentucky they paid off five thousand five hundred dollars in ten months make it a hundred thousand up to a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars brandon mckayla take it away do

your debt free scream three two one

we're debt-free

there it is that's how it's done huh how about that couple look at that i've her face is changing just giant smile plaster on the face yeah incredible yeah i mean they've done their debt free stream i'm not sure what is leading to the big smiles the most is it their debt free uh because they've been debt free for obviously a little bit to get here or is

it the excitement about the restaurant suggestions you're gonna get it's the upcoming meal ken nashville's got a lot of great food they're in the right place and they're in the right hands but you know we're having fun with that but that seems like a little sacrifice

but it's not dangling that little carrot is really powerful to go hey what do we want to do once we're debt-free what kind of things we want to do again or for the first time and it's one of those things where you go we don't have to think about it it's in the budget we're going to pay cash for it we're going to have a great time yeah

but instead of wondering yeah do we have the money am i going to put this on the credit card yeah but speak to this george you coach people on this i mean you start racking up things like i'm not going to go out to eat we're going to you know do this this this all those things together add up to where you can pay off 25 grand in 10 months which is that's a lot of money in 10 months what happens is

you go we're going to make a temporary sacrifice for a long-term gain when you have that kind of mindset it changes everything most people go i'm just going to keep living this way for the next 20 years and i'll worry about it down the road they keep kicking the can down the road and one day they realize hopefully

they're broke and they're miserable they're living with anxiety and they can't reach their dreams and buy homes and go on vacations and it's all because of that and so i love meeting couples like this who decide and not only decide but wake up every day deciding that it doesn't have to be this way and we're going to dangle this carrot this goal in front of us of debt freedom

and all the things that comes with that so that we can power through and pay this off i love it all right george um i want to know you go 10 months without eating out

where do you go what kind of meal just tell me the meal i think it's got to be a high quality meat i'm probably going rib eye okay that's just me yeah uh i asked you maybe a big old pork chop okay what's your side uh i'm gonna go with

mashed potatoes really maybe some asparagus i'm a little shocked that you

chose mashed potatoes it's creamy it's buttery it's filling oh i love it i gotta tell you if i go 10 months without a meal i'm going to have to work in some amazing seafood george maybe a surf and turf you know a little bit of maybe a fillet and a giant lobster this is helping my decisions for this guy there it is folks this is what you come here for hey don't move it's not done yet more of your calls more breakthrough coming up this is the ramsay show

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the ramsey show continues i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell so thrilled that you've joined us today triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life our scripture of the day is matthew 7 13-14 enter through the narrow gate for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it but small is

the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it today's quote comes from john maxwell the secret of your success is determined by your daily

agenda good stuff there amarillo texas is where we go now and chancellor joins us on the line there chancellor how can we help hey yes sir thanks guys for taking my phone call you bet hey hey uh so kind of crazy here i uh i'm in a point at a point now to where we are my wife and i were completely out of debt and uh we've been doing the we did the

baby steps and we got gazelle intense and it seems as if the gazelle intensity has

kind of taken over our lives we don't really know where to go from here and it's not a bad situation by any means you know we have a nice savings account 15 going into our retirement and uh we got our kids college funds on the way we're building them however we still have an influx of money and we don't know what to do now so you've got leftover cash after four and five and you're wondering what do we do with it yes sir how much money are we talking

uh right now we have about fifty six thousand dollars in cash that's on top of your emergency fund

yes well that's no no i'm sorry 41 000 we have 56 000 total okay 41 000 is your emergency fund

15 000. oh okay okay so we got 15 in the

emergency fund what's outside of the emergency fund in cash 41 000 okay there we go all right now we're cooking with gas so you've got baby step six paying off the house early and you're saying hey we've been going real hard is it okay for us to slow down and enjoy our lives uh yeah i guess so um i guess

my fear is you know with college prices being college tuition being so expensive

i just don't know how much what's the cap where to stop where to start i mean really just right yeah i mean my kids are my biggest how old are these kids at this point well i have a nine-year-old stepson and i have a one-year-old daughter okay we've got 17 years till college and we've got another nine years till college you've got plenty of time you guys have done really well i'm not super worried about them being able to afford going to college debt-free with

the way you guys have handled your finances is that what you're worried about will be will we be able to afford it um yeah i am worried about that i am um

but more or less you know i i would like uh i like my kids you know i'm i'm 27 years old i i my wife's 29 but i i fear every day that

i just don't want my kids

needing anything ever yeah if that makes sense well i mean you're a great dad for wanting that but i don't want you living in this fear ever you said i'm living in fear every day uh that borders on paranoia at that point and so i want you guys to you guys have done so well you've worked so hard you have 41 thousand dollars sitting there in liquid cash

so have some fun have you guys been on a vacation well we do we do enjoy our vacation chancellor chancellor can i speak to you as a dad uh of three i totally understand your heart that you don't want your kids to want for anything but the way that sounds is if you have the pressure that you've put on yourself to fund their entire life the way

you said it sounded way more than college and george has already made it clear you're going to be fine on college fund and you just keep doing what we teach there and they're gonna be fine they're gonna have plenty but this idea that i don't want my kids to want for anything i completely understand that believe me i understand you but your job is not to fund their life they're gonna

they have a role that they were created to fill there's work they want to do there's dreams that they have it's that's on them to do that it's not on you to fund their entire life

okay okay you needed to hear that didn't you

yes sir yeah man yes sir you're a good dude you're a good dude look the baby steps are the baby steps you're doing it man keep walking it out relax outside of that your kids are going to make their own decisions you your job is not to now look if you want to do a mutual fund and something for them down the road and give them a great start whatever and put some nice strings on all that that's all good but again i feel this heavy weight on you it needs to be released today

okay so i guess that leads me into my next question um what could i start doing you know like i

i have a really good job i can't complain about my job however i don't absolutely love my job but you know i i have this dream of

you know working for myself or tell me what that would be i don't care how pretty it sounds and how great of a business plan you have tell me what right now in this very moment you would do for yourself if you knew you couldn't fail what kind of business what would you do and honestly i think i would do landscaping i truly love landscaping i've done

it i did it okay now listen chancellor you're in a position man where you can start to plan this out and start this thing on the side with no risk how much money do you make in your current job

well it's a little bit it fluctuates quite a bit but i'd say between 130 and 150. all right so let's just let's just pick 150 as a number you would want to replace and if i promised you that you could make 150 today running your landscaping business how quickly would you resign

right now that's it my man so here's the deal what is it going to take for you to eventually start that business

and take care of your family in that business there's a couple ways you could do this you could keep busting it the way you're busting it you got some money right here george he's got some money that can begin to be the seed for starting that landscaping business and maybe you do it on the side you hire a couple young guys and you're the face of it

and you build this thing up you build it up and you get enough money in that landscaping business account that you've got six months of your salary there and you know if i just go at this full time i get the pipeline full i can go this becomes a math equation that's right i start today start pursuing today by planning and thinking through how would i do

it what's the best way to do it save it all up and step into it or start it on the side and establish it i really like starting it on the side and establishing it by the way and chancellor you can do that now can you not yes sir i actually you know i have about 10 yards a week i do right now oh look at that

i had a sneaky suspicion george that he was already happy my yard's next man that's i'm so glad people have a passion for landscaping ken because i have zero yeah so listen man you have done so well you're 27 years old you make a hundred fifty thousand dollars you're in baby step six you have a pile of cash you need to let go of this fear and start getting excited about your life again your kids are gonna be fine

you need to start dreaming and uh really going after this thing like ken's talking about yeah and you've got it chancellor those 10 yards every nickel that you make or rather keep after you pay for the you know the lawn care equipment and all the things in gas right

that's just going in that side account and i'm building that side account up and i'm building it and i'm building it and i'm building it and i'm trying to figure out can i put six months of my salary what i currently make in that account and i'm building up the clients and i'm going i know that i can blow this thing wide open and there's no risk here george

you know we talk about stepping from the boat right on the dock that's what this side hustle is and then he's going to be in such great financial shape that he doesn't have the pressure that a lot of entrepreneurs face it's amazing how many times people get their financial life in order and then they can focus on purpose and career it's incredible yeah if only we had somebody hit ramsey solutions that could help them figure out that dream cough oh wait a second wait

we can do that fun stuff hey i want to thank you george we had a great time today we did fun stuff man great great job always great to be with you i want to thank our amazing producer james childs and equally amazing associate producer and coal greener kelly daniel i mostly want to thank you america for listening because we do this for you this is your show

this is the ramsay show

[Music] hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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## 211. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 20, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am rachel cruz best-selling author ramsey personality and host of the rachel cruz show hosting today alongside

i like to always say real life friends that's my official title when we're all together uh christy wright best-selling author host of the christy wright show uh chrissy it's good to be back with you yeah this is so fun it's uh it was a big week last week for business boutique and now back in the back in the weekend i know how did it go you guys had an event here in nashville yep

and live stream thousands of women and uh it's just amazing how every year we change up the speakers change up the content and every year it raises the bar it's so fun and so exhausting and awesome how was bianca and jasmine because i know them personally and they are they're amazing they're so fun do you know that that was the first time they've ever spoken together because they're twins they're 20 that do not know them

but yeah bianca oltof is a bible teacher and pastor jasmine starr is a social media expert both of them are very branded in their individual spaces they are identical twins and even

though they are identical twins most people don't know that they're twins because they're so branded in their space and they have different laughs last names so in all the promotion for this event we did not share that they were twins and so thursday night bianca spoke and just brought a great word she was so powerful and then friday morning jasmine starr spoke and then we did this fun reveal

and did a panel with both of them talking about how you find your unique calling when you are constantly compared to someone else great yes it's really that's so great all right so we are taking your calls live at triple eight eight two five five two two five so give us a call we're talking money we're talking business we're talking life we're talking balance we're talking parenting anything

you want to chat about america uh christy and i are here because they

they give this to us which is just absolutely crazy just keep letting us host together absolutely crazy okay um before we dive into the calls i do want to ask because last time we were on together we were talking about your planner yep and different fun things launching how has that been yeah it's so great so the planner is awesome i actually had someone um asking about

it last week for for people that don't know our 2022 goal planner is out and this is the fourth year that i've done this planner but what makes this planner different than other calendars which are great is um it's filled with content and worksheets and journal questions for reflection and a month in review so there's a lot of personal growth tools and content woven into the calendar

and oh by the way that informs your calendar your to-do list so um it's one of those things that we try to pull together all the best pieces of things we teach we teach you to read books to grow as a person we teach you to you know do bible studies to grow in your faith to journal to write your goals on paper this is all of that

it is your yeah it's your goal tools it's all that together so um yeah it's been fun and people get so excited because it's really beautiful i mean it's a piece of it it is it is oh it's gorgeous it's absolutely gorgeous yeah so i feel like that's one of the fun things that we get to do is create these tools around what i think individually we're passionate about

but to help people because it's like yeah we can talk all day on shows like this or our own podcasts but to be able to live in day in and day out as you're living life whether you have a planner next to you helping you with kids schedules and your schedule and appointments and all of it um which just remind me by the way i have a planner on my phone like

i do it digitally anyways i didn't take off an appointment so i took two of my kids to the dentist today and we didn't have a dentist appointment i had like not taken off so i actually probably need your planner honestly uh not digital because my digital planners are not working um but yeah but one of the things i'm so excited about the rachel cruz wallets has been out for a few years now

we have uh just different different colors different variations of it but uh it it's all based around the cash envelope system because that is something that we talk about here those of you that are new to the show and our money principles one of the biggest ways to stay within your budget and honestly just control your spending and know what's going on is to use cash and

i know that's kind of now even since covet and all of that it's kind of like a it feels like a dying art in the world today and so i do tell people like it doesn't have to be for every category but if you especially people just starting out budgeting when you are just at the forefront of hey i'm for the first time actually saying i have x amount for groceries

this month that's the first time you've ever done that yeah you know to have anything visual to help you day in and day out and cash really does that i mean it can be inconvenient at times but if you have a couple of categories in your budget to really help and say hey i'm going to just cash these out and use it and so the the wallets that

i created helps with that so we partnered with join who's an incredible organization out in india and they rescue people from just just trauma devastating life stories and really take them and give them a trade show them a skill and put them to work so they're able to earn money so it's a beautiful redeeming

business that join is i mean they just do an incredible job in india um and and

i'll say this too for people that have bought the wallets um the owner i was talking to her a few weeks ago and she just said and thanked us so much for partnering with them because even during coven you know india was hit so drastically hard during that time and where everything shut down they were still able to employ people and still keep people in business which

i think is just a beautiful amazing element to all of this which i just love but um but the wallet we released a new color this week and so it's called classic brown i love it classic brown uh but for the fall season so if you have not checked that out make sure to do that you can do that over at ramseysolutions.com what are the colors remind me what

the colors are that you have available now i know this is getting added but what are the other ones yeah so we have a camel so we have like a uh i don't know how it's a lighter brown i guess you could say yeah and then black and then we had a metallic blush for a short period of time and it sold out within like i think

it was 15 days they're all gone because it was beautiful too so popular yes yeah but but yeah but i just i do i love um these

tools whether it's a whether it's a book that we have you guys or a planner or this wallet whatever it is to integrate into your life and help you because you find that do you have things in your life that just it help you stay on track with things that you want cause goal setting and knowing where you're going intentionality is so important to winning not just in money yes

but in so many aspects well it's one of the things that we teach here but we also live out we want to help you live the principle so anything that we create from ramsey solutions from any of our personalities is going to be a tool that helps you work the plan we don't just create stuff just to create it it is specifically to help you get those results

and so that's what i love about it because there's such a purpose and depth to any product

it's not just a product it's not just cute and it is beautiful but it actually helps you work the plan and so i love the the purpose behind it yep absolutely absolutely all right well christy and i are again taking your calls here on the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five we're about to head into a break soon christy but um what else do

you have going on that's that's exciting so one of the things that's really fun with the end of the year and we've talked about this with goal setting but i think people in this year with the pant well with the pandemic last year but even this year people are just starting to rethink their lives they're rethinking where they work jobs yeah that's what it's so fun to think about ken coleman's new book coming out in just a few weeks from paycheck to purpose whether it's a career change setting new goals finally getting their money under control people are rethinking

and i think you're going to see a lot of people make some positive changes because of that new awareness yep absolutely absolutely so great well again aaa 825-5225 christina are here to answer your questions we'll be back

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welcome back america i am rachel cruz here with christy wright taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five all right we're going to jason in chattanooga hey jason

welcome to the show how are you guys today doing great

great thanks for taking my call i have a

two-part question for you guys

the first part of the question would be

my wife was terminated from an employer

after 17 years with the company due to

the vaccine mandate and we are navigating through this new

chapter in life and i i really just want to know

what is a way that i can support her

through this let me give you a little bit of background she's been in corporate for 17 years and she's going to transition to go into small business with me so i know that's completely different from what she is used to so i know there's a morning process i see her going through that now and and yeah i thought christy you might could help me with that part of it yeah well i love how you first acknowledge that there's a mourning process because um it is it's different

and and there's a lot more going on at

her um leaving this job of 17 years than

just losing the paycheck or using the losing the day-to-day responsibilities because there's there's this feeling of was i just a unit of production was that just a you know is that is that how after 17 years i'm going to be treated and so um yeah there's there's the there's a lot of feelings attached to this transition but also moving into the small business type of role is just going to be a different day-to-day different responsibilities different energy tell me a little bit more about what

you do and what she's going to be doing yeah so i work at a insurance agency

a property and casualty insurance agency here in town and the timing as far as me needing help

to take it to the next level is really it's really good timing from that standpoint so i don't think any of this happened um you know just accidentally right i really don't i think the lord was completely orchestrating all this that doesn't take away the morning process and all those things that go with that but definitely um it's good timing from that standpoint okay well here's what

i would do this is a very simple practice and so many people don't do it okay so so don't underestimate it because it's simple i would sit down with your wife and when y'all are ready to talk about her role in the business and that type of thing i would have i would ask her say i want you to define what success looks like in this role for

you what are your what tasks are you passionate about what are you good at what does a typical day look like what gets you energized what do you love doing and let's just and with in light of what you're doing right like in the context of what she would be doing for you write out that list and then you separately write out a list of what success looks like for

you what is the help that you need what are the problems you need solved what are the gaps that you need filled and see where this overlap falls

between what she wants to do and what you need now likely there's going to be some things that you need that she doesn't want to do and you can figure out what to do with those does she do them anyway because we all have things we don't want to do sure or do you find someone else to do that part of it but i think the biggest factor to set

you guys up for success is simply defining success from the get-go success in her mind and success in your mind and making sure that there's a connection point between those it may not be 100 overlap maybe it's 80 percent overlap and you figure out what to do with the other 20 percent but so often um you have an idea in your head and she has an idea in her head

and you all both start running and those are not the same idea and that leads to conflict miscommunication and just overall frustration and more mistakes made so i would just have her write out what this looks like have you write out what it looks like define success and then just have some conversations around that i think that's going to set you up uh from a really strong standpoint out of

the gate yeah that's good jason is is the things that she was doing in her previous job going to be similar to kind of what she's well not really she's she was a senior manager at a company um

very high up and so i i knew from the

beginning that her identity finding an identity that she's happy with is going to be difficult because this is so much different than a large company so i've already given her some things to do taking some i.t stuff and running with it and she has really enjoyed that she's already played with that some so i think just finding the identity is going to be a big deal this may be a real basic question

but she want to do this i know you need it but does she want to do this for you i think she does i just think yeah i think she would tell you that she does well i think i mean that's that's huge but and i just heard you say she went from a senior manager role that she very much found a part of her identity in which is fine to being more of a support role for

you

that's a shift not in not just in tasks but in the role that you play and so i think that if you're sensitive to that that will be huge especially in this transition process but if she wants to do it then she'll she'll want to figure out how to make that make that modification how how old is she jason she's 44. 44. okay okay yeah so she still has some years we've been married 20 years and we've never dealt with anything like this thankfully applying their principles you guys teach and mr ramsey

teaches we're we're in good shape um

the second thing i wanted to add real quick if i can we have a 401k

that we have invested specifically the way dave has said his gross stock mutual funds long track record we've done that for years and it's it's done very very well what do we do with this thing now should we sit on it for a couple of months and let the smoke settle what do you guys recommend

the first thing i would say is to contact one of our smartvestor pros because they'll be able to tactically help you walk through tangibly all of these changes but traditionally i would say when you leave a company that you would want to roll your 401k into just a traditional ira

if you guys can pay the taxes on it you could even do a roth ira at that point um but again a smart investor pro can definitely walk through all those details yep and that thanks jason

you know he brings up an interesting point and um i guess i've thought about this but not just in depth is is that um shift of people that are leaving their jobs changing careers for whatever reason it could be anything but how much we do find and value especially if you love your work and your job right um who you are in it right and then there's that morning

you know that takes place especially if it's a if it's a decision that wasn't your own or you felt backed in a corner that you had to leave um that is really real for a lot of people out there that are in transition one i think there we can swing to these extremes of we only find our identity in our work and that's a dangerous place to be

because your work can change just like even finding your identity in relate in terms of relationships if those relationships change we we there's a danger in our only source of identity being followed there uh falling there but then we can swing to the other extreme of saying well um i don't find my identity in anything that i do it's like my identity is in christ and it's just that simple

and that sounds nice but there's a very healthy normal level of identifying with the work that you do every day if you spend 40 plus hours a week of doing anything you're going to find at least a part of your identity there yeah and and i think as long as you hold it with open hands and understand this is something that i do it's not who i am yes

but because i do it so much i do identify with that i do pride myself on the work that i do or you know you've been with this company 17 years like that that's a big part of who you are anytime you invest a lot of time in something a job a relationship anything it does become a part of you and when that changes if it does

there is a little bit of mourning and um and so i think we have to figure out what that healthy balance in the middle looks like of yes we're going to find a little bit of our identity there like i identify as i'm a runner you know yeah yeah it's like it's like i don't you identify as that i do i do not and you don't and

you don't really mourn the loss of that no i don't i quit marathon training two weeks in i was like heck no this is stupid but this is a healthy amount yeah there's a healthy amount of holding with open hands and going yeah this is part of who i am in a healthy normal way yes and at the same time it's not only who i am and

so i think we need to just acknowledge that because when you're going through a change or losing a part of yourself yeah give yourself some grace in that transition in that morning because that was a big piece of who you were and it's okay if that changes you know and i think that there's not you know there shouldn't be shame or embarrassment either to have those feelings

and i love that even jason pointed that out about his wife because i think sometimes we can be in the mindset of like just you know pull your boots up and just just charge you know it's like no there's a big part of your life that is shifting and changing and if that makes that's hard and sad then let it be you know for a little bit

so that's great awesome well christy and i again uh are happy to be here answering your questions you also triple eight eight two five five two two five and we'll be back

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if you aren't strapped with student loan payments you probably know someone who is there are millions of people that are literally putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're just stuck and they're waiting and waiting and the worst part is they're waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness and it's just it's a joke uh our team has produced a new documentary you guys and it's incredible it's called borrowed future and it is out now it uncovers the dark side of the

student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you

and so you'll see dave ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program and has interviews with some of the industry insiders and thought leaders like seth godin seth from and dr john deloney

and we're coming at this hard ramsey solutions really we're taking a big swing at the student loan problem with the goal to lock arms with parents and students around the country with the truth that you do not have to take out loans to get a college degree you can graduate debt free and avoid the predatory student loan industry so borrowed future is available now you can watch it on apple tv amazon prime google play or go to borrowed future.com

find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promo codes they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsay to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from daisy in tennessee i work full time and also have a side business that i've worked hard to build it's grown to

the point where it's becoming hard to manage my time and i've not done a good job of serving my customers which really bothers me i've been praying about working on my business full time and leaving my current job how do i overcome the fear of leaving a great job and benefits so i love this question because it's really common and anyone listening right now that has a side business maybe

you have a side hustle maybe you started it just to work on your debt snowball faster and as you're doing it you're thinking wow i really love this it gives me joy i'm passionate about it what if i did this full time what if i could quit my full-time job well the thing that we tell people all the time is we don't want you to walk out on your study paycheck tomorrow

i don't want you to have this jerry maguire moment where you grab the goldfish and say who's with me that's fun in the movies and not fun in real life nothing will make your dream a burden like having um

the money being the driver driving force where you the money's not there so here's what i want you to do for daisy or anyone daisy one of the things that you said in your question is that you've grown it to the point where you're spending a lot of time on it but you didn't mention how much money you're making in it and i'm not as interested how much time you spent on it as i am how much money you're making as long as that time converts to two dollars you're bringing in and so what we tell people to do is you need to build up your side business so much from a financial standpoint the revenue the personal income standpoint that it can support you now let's say for example that daisy is working a full-time job and she makes 60 000 a year and her side business she's built it up to 30 000.

to help you know put a down payment on the next one or is it dumb to have two mortgages

neither of our homes are paid off yet we both again are debt-free and you know have good income stuff like that yeah that's great great question and i'll tell you mike from always sitting in the seat that i'm in when i hear real estate questions i like have my husband and my dad in my head because they love real estate they love passive income this is like their bread

and butter they love it so my answer i'm telling you comes from someone who is in a family and married to someone who loves real estate but when it comes to investment properties um and expanding past just that fifteen percent of your income into retirement on baby step four we really want you to be in baby step seven uh when you go to look at rental properties

and and i know that's not the answer you wanted because you're like we have stable income we're good i know you wanted me to just be like yes you can keep one and i and i understand even mathematically you could look and say yeah i mean it should work with the math but what you have to remember is that life happens and the two mortgages and if

you don't have a tenant in the house or if something breaks i mean it's just this level of risk at this point and so you guys uh you're in an amazing position i mean you guys don't have consumer debt uh you both own homes so even selling those in this market today if that's what you're choosing to do um to go buy something else you should have great equity

so but my question would be why why not just live in one of them and sell the other well we've thought about that um certainly but we you know both of our houses are are small and if if and when the time comes for kids and dogs and things like that are you know we have less less than a thousand square foot in our house okay um

so we're just thinking you know more yeah down the road when that comes kind of deal absolutely and i think that that's that's wise but i would i would encourage you guys at this point especially since you're going to be newly married to maybe just say hey for a year we're going to just live in one of our homes and just kind of let the death settle get marriage worked out figure

you know get all this kind of in a in a more you know quote unquote stable position because of a big life change like marriage and then maybe it's

i don't know fall of 2022 and you say okay we're ready for a bigger place uh and then you choose to make that leap um to something brand new versus just living in one of yours just as an idea because you guys aren't you don't have to have something bigger right this second i mean if you were expecting or something like that i could see that um

but even just being in one house just for a little bit uh i don't i don't think is a bad plan at all well and one of the things that that will give you um mike is it will just give you perspective of that first year of marriage because when you get married i remember the first year of marriage with matt we learned so much about each other

and how we lived and house responsible like there's a big learning curve of merging your life with someone else and what's so interesting is in a year you guys may know more about what you want what neighborhood you want to be in what you want in a house and once you've lived together to talk about some of that stuff you could you could guess now but you'll really know

after a year of living together so it definitely can't hurt um and the other thing that i just would remind you um mike is a lot of times we'll have this question of should i do this and it's just because you're sort of inheriting a situation if you would not set out to go buy a rental property to become a landlord your first year of marriage then you're not going to keep that situation in which puts

you in that situation sometimes we just want to keep it because we're already there well if you wouldn't go do that today then it's not the right thing yep so i'd live in one of the homes sell the other one and then here in about nine nine to 12 months look to sell that and move up in house if you guys want congratulations mike too marriage is awesome we're excited for

it this is the ramsey show

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welcome back america this is rachel cruz

and rams personality and best-selling author christy wright you can give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five and we are answering your questions all right up next is john in grand rapids michigan hey john welcome to the show hey good afternoon ladies how are you doing great how can we help hey got a question for you um

i was planning on going on a vacation this weekend and just had an emergency arise today that's going to probably take half of our emergency fund and we're thankful we have that but i

don't know if i should cancel this vacation and you know go back to stockpiling money to rebuild our emergency fund or worry about that when i get back great question was your emergency fund more on the six month end of the spectrum or more like the three month before the emergency uh it was closer to three it was probably three to four three to four so it cuts it down to what probably a month and a half of savings yeah about about that we

don't know for sure um i would i made a really bad judgment call and drove my tractor over top my septic tank and fell through wow so we have to get a new septic tank put in gosh

tell me a little bit because i mean it's this weekend it's in like 48 hours right

yeah i'll be leaving early early saturday morning okay what what it is it entails all the family i'm just nope it's just me i'm going by myself i plan to trip up to the upper peninsula michigan just to go do some photography for four or five days gotcha um it's fairly cheap you know three on the low end 500 on the high end is how much i'd spend on the whole trip with gas and everything so yeah and how much do you make a year john uh household incomes about 85. 85.

you know i have i always have big dave in my head sitting there i was like you got two spenders giving you advice right now listen john honestly i mean again if

you were going to be spending 10 grand going somewhere super fancy and all of this i would probably let's pause but three to five hundred dollars with your income everything i mean i think you're fine going i mean i would i would focus in on when you get back yeah bumping that back up um but to build up that emergency fund you could you you can do that in three or four months focusing all your efforts um and now now it i will say this though john it is a vaca it's not a i always

feel the pressure that if it's a vacation that you know you can't cancel because of a hotel policy if there's family if other people are involved in the plans that that's a harder one to just flat out cancel this one it's just you so if you didn't want to press pause and go in two months you could do that and probably be on the safe side but because it's not a huge dollar amount and you still have around a month and a half two-month buffer there um

i'm okay with it and we tell people once you're once you're debt-free like you know yes you want to build that emergency fund fast but that's when you're able to kind of celebrate and enjoy life um a little bit more yeah i think for me the dollar amount is what is the determining factor like i don't know what dave would say if he were here if he would hear

he might be like no don't go but dave's done here john dave's not here me and rachel are your friendly spenders just giving you advice no i mean seriously it's it's it's negligible in the grand scheme of the emergency funds you already have and the income that you make and it's in two days go take some pictures enjoy your photography i don't think it's a big deal

if you want to cancel it you can there it's it's not a big deal either way but i think if you want to go you can start building that emergency fund right back up when you get back the fact that you're even calling shows that you're cognizant you're you're a saver you're doing great yeah uh but yeah i don't think it's a big deal if you go

and consult your wife and if she's feeling uncomfortable then i would i would add that in there too but i think i think you're i think you're good again again only because you have still some emergency fund it's not a huge dollar amount and your income is 85 000 a year yeah it's gonna i think you're gonna be you're gonna be okay it's not gonna make her your

this vacation is not gonna make or break your emergency fund that's right or your ability to build it back up that's right all right up next is t shaw in wichita kansas hey welcome to

the show how are you ladies great what's going on

good uh well i'm my husband and i are kind of in the middle of trying to make some decisions as far as what it is we want to do um with our lives as far as if we move and potential career changes if we decide that we want to go that route and really my question is you know how do you go about discussing those decisions you know full-time parents full-time jobs

and then you get home you're exhausted and you're just kind of overwhelmed with everything coming at you in life because i feel like we've got it coming at all ends um yeah well tell tell us a little bit more about your situation what do you both currently do for work and what are your kids ages and how many kids give us a little bit of a picture of what we're talking about here okay

so um i'm a financial spreads analyst for bank and my husband is a heavy equipment operator and foreman for a construction company um so both very solid you know essential jobs when it comes to that and our children are the oldest is three years and the youngest is just 10 months you know so they're they're very active um you know going to daycare full-time of course i want to be a stay-at-home mom

i never thought i would say that um you know and there's just everything going on has made me just kind of want to go home and squeeze my kids and just not even worry about work the next morning um you know there's been a lot going on in the community you know that just makes you feel like life is just way too short to be focused on

the career yeah

um so t-shirt so is your is your goal here to shift out of working to be that stay-at-home mom um i would like to yeah i would really like to do that um i don't know if that's possible yeah have you guys are you guys on are you guys on a budget baby step two you're on baby step two yeah we're yeah we're on baby step two we have about 85

000 in debt and we bring depending on my husband's job annually both of us household income is about 80 to 90 000 a year 80 to 90

combined yes combined okay um well this is i mean it's really a

value system kind of conversation i mean obviously the math when you're looking just strictly at the money on the piece you know the seat that i sit in um to get you guys out of debt the fastest

and to get yourself in a stable position um i mean you guys you know if you really buckle down you could be you could be out of debt in two and a half years if you really just cut everything

or you could just map it out and say okay if we if i do quit and i stay home and this is cut by how much how much do you contribute to the 80 to 90 000

half of it okay so it goes down to 40 45

000 um and what does that look like and so um for some people it's worth it some people it's like yeah we will i'll figure out a way if i can make money from home because my number one desire is to be with my kids right now and that's all i want some people say you know what i'm going to sacrifice that longing for just 48 more months sorry 24 more months and do what i can

to to get this debt out of the way um but again i think it is a it's a it's a values conversation between you and your husband and what and what you what you decide but this this debt is holding you back and that's one of the reasons we we talk so strongly about this whether it's student loans or car loans it's like this this this culture

you know you're you're working to pay bills and that sucks you know that that is that's the miserable part of all of this uh t-shirt you said you're a financial analyst yes okay i i think that you can look for something else i i think that you can look for something else and work from home there are a bazillion work from home jobs you can be making more than you're making right now with your skill set

you also could start a business if you wanted to if you'll stay on the line i'll have kelly send you a copy of my book business boutique because while that's a plan to start your business it also might just give you your idea for what your business is but i think you don't want to walk out tomorrow like we said but i do think you can start to look at something that could still get

you out of debt but help you be home a little bit more absolutely all right i want to thank our producer ben hill and associate producer kelly daniel and you chrissy wright for co-hosting the show with me so fun and this is the

ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey

show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am best-selling author ramsey personality rachel cruz hosting today

with my good friend best-selling author and host of the christy wright show christy wright this is so fun i love this good to be back with you we are hitting the phones this hour you guys were talking about everything from yeah everything that involves your life whether it's your money it's your work it's your kids it's your schedule it's your balance anything all of it uh we

are here to hang out and and talk about it which is just so fun i love this show because i just love diving into people's lives for about five four to five minutes depending how long we have with them um because everyone has a story yeah everyone has things going on in their life and christy and i are sitting here in the studio in in nashville tennessee just here wanting to help direct and guide you on everything

that um everything we know i don't know though this is so uh known as a money show you know it's been a money show for over 30 years and people often think they're calling in with a money question and it's rarely a money question sometimes it is sometimes it's as simple as yeah we're going to move this investment here or we need to save this amount of money sometimes

it is a lot of times it's a deeper conversation and we had some of that in the last hour um you guys call in you know we'll have here here's the conversation my spouse and i can't agree on this that or the other and it's really a marriage question it's a it's a communication question it's a relationship question it's a boundaries question and so we love to help

you look at this through a different lens and peel away the layers of the issue below the issue and talk about it there and oh by the way of course that does have an effect in your money decisions and in your bank account but um yeah that's the reason we like to let you guys know we're not just talking about money if you have a question about something else we're here for

you but often the money questions are actually uh a different type of question uh camped in that so we're here to help you absolutely so again triple eight eight two five five two two five okay we have ruth in seattle up next hey ruth welcome to the show hey you two are amazing thanks okay i'm pretty sure this is a money question all right

my question has to do with how exactly to calculate the emergency fund um i

mean i'm in baby step three and um we'll probably make about 45 k this year between instacart shopper and ubereats and i'm trying to figure out does the stream of well i'm kind of on the fence about three or six months but

when it comes down to the numbers

is it three let's go let's go with the three months just for example um is it three months of everything including lifestyles if any any and all bills that you've got or do or should i chisel down to say the

other day i kind of pretended i you know pretend you have a car you had a car accident and just to figure out what you would be paying for it and what you would cancel out yeah for three months type thing how would you which one would you go with yeah that's a great question ruth um you know you can go about this kind of both ways honestly

i talk to some people and they want the three three-month emergency fund where their life doesn't change that if they lose a job or a spouse loses a job or something happens that they don't have to shift their lifestyle much that they have three months that they can live consistently on uh as is now other

people it is more of the bare bones it's more like hey to not be late on bills electricity cell phone it's more of those four walls making sure we're eating where we we get the mortgage paid or the rent paid uh it's really the bare bones and calculating that and you're so in that instance you're cutting out things like out to eat you're cutting out shopping if

you have a clothing you know thing that you can you can do without that for a few months like more of that bare bones so it's kind of how quickly you want to get to it and then to decide

okay is it three or six months so so i would lean on the three-month side you know if someone is out there and they're single if they have a pretty steady income you know a job that's pretty predictable you could probably live on a three-month emergency fund now if you have kids a

lot of dependents if you're married if you're on commission uh if you're ju if it's not really a very stable you know situation like you said for yours for instance you know instacart and ubereats is that what you're saying you do yeah so for that you know that's a little bit more volatile in a sense you know you're not just on a strict salary so in your case

i would probably lean closer to a six-month mark in that but whichever one you take and for you because you're gonna be on that six month i would almost do a bare bones budget to say okay if i cut out all the fluff of my lifestyle and really have to stick to my bills um i would have that um as your six month if i were you ruth are

you are you married do you have kids no but it's just me okay okay awesome so

um yeah i mean i hope yeah you know it's great um so yeah so if i were you i mean well yeah now that you're not i mean you could probably do closer to four months if you wanted um and again it can be the bare-bones budget or you could say i just want to be comfortable um and have that that budget they want to get to

the next goal huh what'd you say well they're all going to know how fast they want to get to the next goal basically yeah it does that but i think that's the reason i mean the way that i've always looked at it ruth um and i don't know that anyone's ever told me this i think i've just kind of looked at it this way the reason we give that range is for that reason

we we give a range of three to six months and i've always looked at it as if you're going the three month route it's probably going to be a three month you're not changing your lifestyle if you're in the six month route it's probably six months of bare bones but the number could be defined either way it's yes three months if we don't change anything or it's our sixth month of bare bones

you know if um like in in my case having three little kids i want a more full emergency fund for peace of mind because i have more people i'm responsible for in your case i mean yeah like if you're like yeah i feel good on four months of you know uh middle middle of the ground you know middle road whatever i think you're fine i think we give

you that range for some freedom and flexibility with your comfort level probably all of our savers and our nerds are gonna have a six month and all of our spenders like i'm fine on three months so uh there's a little bit of flexibility in there for you to adapt it for what's right for you yeah that and i think that is so true that when i first got married

and we were going we were doing the baby steps we did it and it was like okay we had the emergency fund and and i had some money that i brought in he had a little bit of savings we were kind of like you know i was like oh yeah three definitely three months barebone plenty let's move on let's move on and then once i had kids

we have a family i went back um i mean it's probably been five years now or so but i was like hey let's like really beef up that emergency fund just so i know so i know so i know so i know that that's in there if something happens and that's the beautiful thing you guys about this i mean and ruth congrats on being on baby step three that means that she's gotten out of debt that's right

and now you're moving on to that and ruth i'm excited for you to hit that baby step three because there is this emotional piece that you get when you're like okay i don't owe anyone anything we have money saved so god forbid i i lose a job something shifts uh another pandemic like whatever happens there is that safety net and there is something to that peace of mind that is priceless yeah yeah absolutely that's why it's

there it's not just about the money it's about the peace of mind absolutely this is the ramsay show

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well you guys i have the perfect gift for you and all the women on your shopping list for this holiday season this gift actually makes budgeting look beautiful i have had a best-selling camel color wallet and black color wallet

of the rachel cruz wallets and we are out now with a brand new color just in time for the holidays and it's actually the most popular color according to the manufacturer that we work with and that is classic brown so this genuine leather classic brown wallet can literally go with anyone's style it's timeless which is my favorite and the best part is that these wallets go beyond just the beautiful exterior that you see but it really does it helps you budget it is handmade authentic

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the debit card slots that you need so last christmas um we saw post after boast of people saying that this was the perfect gift they were buying it for all the women in their life which is so fun so it is available to order now and we'll ship by early november so you can get your rachel cruz wallet and our classic brown

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three three seven eight nine even the box is beautiful like this is like it's a perfect gift box isn't it great the presentation is is awesome yeah i appreciate that and just a reason a reminder for people um shipping is just weird right now across the country everyone is experiencing unpredictability some delays in shipping so if you want something from the ramsey solutions store for christmas get

it now whether it's the wallet or a book or something else get it now just to make sure you don't face any of those close calls in december absolutely all right we're gonna go to the phones with christopher in atlanta georgia hey christopher welcome to the show hi thank you guys for being here absolutely how can we help all right i guess um my question will be um i'm 22 right now uh making about a little bit over um 85k wow um

i guess um my question would be

kinda what um but i guess what what exactly um with being

22 some steps that i can take to make sure that i'm managing my money properly um with making this type of money um being this young yeah it's a great question great question yeah what do you what do you do i'm a cloud engineer great so so awesome oh man okay 22 making 85 000 do you do

you have any debt um right now i have um about

about uh 9k and um in student loan but i still

have about a semester left so um i'm debating about just go ahead and pay it off and i have about about 40 40k um saved up wow

that's awesome um well to answer your question yes i would pay off that student loan i mean that 9 000 for sure i'd pay that off and then cash flow that last semester of school um which is absolutely incredible incredible well i'll give you my top piece of advice and then christy you can you can chime in so at 22 i mean you have so much going for

you the fact that obviously your income is amazing you really you're gonna be debt free by the end of today and if it were up to me that you just write the check and you do it um but you know i think the biggest mistake people make christopher that we see all the time is that they're just not intentional and i know it's a really broad piece of advice

but people really do they float through life they make great money just like you and they just spend and go and they look up

at 40 45 and they realize oh gosh you know i've tacked on some debt here i i don't really have a lot in retirement and oh and they feel themselves realizing well i was not intentional with this money and so if you really do kind of buckle down live on a budget which again where you're at budget does not mean that it's going to limit your lifestyle in fact it's going to give

you a lot of freedom to enjoy your lifestyle and if you i'll have you hang on the line when we get off the call here because we'll give you a subscription to ramsey plus because every dollar plus is our budgeting app that helps with this and helps you budget and know exactly where every dollar is going um and there and there's something powerful about that and then from

there being able to walk the baby steps and again with you you you pretty much are on baby step four five and six at this point um meaning that you'll be out of debt you have a fully funded emergency fund and you're gonna be able to start investing into retirement uh saving up for a house if you haven't bought a home and that's something you to do in

the near future and really i mean you're going to walk this path so fast christopher um which is amazing and to be able to just be extremely generous as well and that's another piece of that puzzle i would put in but all of that to say under the umbrella of just do things on purpose yeah be intentional don't just float through life with your money yeah the only thing that

i would um add christopher just in consideration of the overall plan that rachel just laid out for you the one thing that's um specific to you is your age and so you are at such a young age

and coming into um a season of life where a lot of people experience a lot of transition so i love how much money you have saved i would just continue to add to that in addition to you know paying off the debt like she said and cash flowing college and um starting investing and all that just continue to stockpile cash because if and when you're ready to buy a house you've got a down payment

if you decide to get married you've got some money for a wedding a honeymoon whatever and so there's a a lot of people experience a lot of very expensive life changes between 20 and 30 in a lot

of cases and so you're already on that track just um maybe go above and beyond your your three to six months expenses from a savings standpoint because you may want to access that money for a house down payment that type of thing and you could start now and then gosh you have that much more to put down when and if you're ready to do it yeah you're doing awesome yeah christopher can

i ask you you know what was your upbringing like did your parent or parents like talk to you about this stuff or you just kind of happen to not have a ton of student loans but great income or what kind of what's your story um it's kind of a little difficult to explain um kane um from you

know that went ahead and got adopted um young age and um got into a couple situation actually um have kids um have kids very young um and that's kind of what really really made me you know started focusing and so on

yeah and and since then i just know that i i i want to be ahead in life um for them and

and so on and i guess i'm just wanting to go back where i came from and um starting the orphanage opening something like that um and i know that i have to work hard from another age to be able to do that i guess that that's really was my upbringing just making sure that i can get ahead as young as possible and to be able to to do all

the stuff that i have planned and making sure all my kids have a good life instead of them yeah wow absolutely that's amazing and you are oh oh absolutely i mean just obviously calling in and being aware of the responsibility that you have because that is one thing you know you consider we we talk about money here a lot and money i always say is a tool to create a life that

you love you want to take control of it but it is a tool it's not the end i'll be all it's not the thing that the number one goal that you know you're working towards is just it's just cash and money um it is a

tool to do life with i mean it is a tool to create a life that you want it's a tool to be able to help people and so making any kind of money i mean you know if you what is it if you have two cars and food in your refrigerator you're like in the top two percent of the universe or something right i mean like so

there there's just a level of responsibility that we all have and that we carry to do this well to do this well and not let the money ruin us uh from an emotional standpoint or a financial where you go into so much debt and it's stressful and you know you're working a job you hate to pay bills all of that but but really seeing this is okay

this is this is a responsibility how do i do this well yeah and it was like you were just talking about being intentional i mean you already have been christopher with having forty thousand dollars in savings that didn't just appear in your bank account that's right you have been intentional and worked really hard to get there i think just um following those baby steps and continuing that you're going to be able to set yourself up to do those things

you just described for the legacy you want to leave to be the type of person you want to be to help the people that you want to help and i think that's awesome and when you have a deeper why that is what fuels you way more than anything at the surface and you do christopher you do well done absolutely and to show that your past does not dictate your future your past choices

you can make decisions today to change yeah not just who you are but even your money habits and what you're doing with this so so well done christopher very very awesome well this is the ramsey show again we're taking your calls america aaa 825-5225

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well in the lobby of ramsey solutions on

the debt free stage we have nick and

ashley and you're on the stage for a reason i know that you guys welcome to the show thank you where are you guys from minden nevada okay nevada great okay so

you guys you're here to do your debt-free scream congratulations thank you yeah so how much debt did you guys pay off uh thirty six thousand one hundred and eighty three dollars awesome count and count the dollars i love that thirty six thousand and how long did it take you ten months ten months making what kind of money we started at 48 000 and got up to 104.

whoa what quite a jump there tell us about that we both switched jobs which was part of it the first month was just on her income because i was in between switching jobs and then with the job i went to i got in a much better spot and then she switched jobs as well what do you guys do i'm a service writer for hyundai okay and then

i work in a dental office yes awesome amazing okay and how long have you guys been married three years three years okay so what happened 10 months ago that you said oh this this 36 000 is just we're

feeling it we originally did this it was a prerequisite by her father to go through financial peace before we got married oh and uh me too

we went through that and we're like oh we don't have that much debt and then a couple years into being married we we switched it up and it was like okay it's it's time to do this yes well and i think when he was switching jobs we were going to go a month where it was just my income and we looked at our budget and we were like we're not going to make

it like and that was a point for us where we're like we don't have anything in savings we don't have like any extra money i don't know how we're gonna get groceries for like this next month while we're just waiting on like my income so i think that was like our low point and we're like we can do this yeah so what was the 36 000 it was cars credit card

and then an old car loan that we didn't even have the car anymore anymore so it's just kind of normal so i mean you are the classic you kind of just are living paycheck to paycheck if something happens you're like oh gosh what do we do we can't we can't make it so what was the conversation like then when you realized okay we are not going to make

it on just my income i'm we're starting to kind of freak out we're starting to see the reality of this debt and the bills

who came to who how did that conversation happen she came to me i am 110 free spirit here um i have very

expensive tastes and a lot of things and she was like hey um we i want to get out of debt i you know i was that one for a while i was like we'll do it over time like you know it's fine it'll go away and then uh it never went away and it got to the point the month i was switching jobs i'm like wow i

i don't want this anymore yeah sometimes that sometimes that freak out that you guys described is incredibly motivating to change like you almost need this freak out moment where you're scared enough to consider doing something different and doing something hard i think it's funny that you said you're the um you were the resistant one because i've noticed a consistent pattern that the resistant spouse is always the free spirit actually it's never

the nerd that's like i don't know if we should save money it's like they're always the one that's on board the free spirit's like no don't box me rules it'll just go away i love that say i love that you said that i was like oh yeah it'll just go away exactly and you know she just kept like sliding me brochures and like conveniently i'd find her old financial piece back

and i'm like okay i get it i get it i get it okay so what did you guys do i mean obviously you switched jobs so the income helped tremendously but what else what else did your did your story look like through this um i can't believe i'm going to say this but covet actually helped us with because you know you don't want to go out and do anything well

you can't go out and do anything so it was one of those that helped uh and i mean you know just sacrifices all around i mean well and you picked up pizza delivering too for a while and he was working six days a week and that was like our new normal was i would barely see him and then yeah when i did see him he was doing pizza runs

and all that yeah i went up to my boss it was like my second month i was like hey i know i'm supposed to work tuesday through saturday but i'm gonna work mondays too and he's like okay so amazing isn't that crazy i'm like the two elements of people's money it's your

expenses and when you cut that whether it's the culture has cut it for you because of covid and there's nothing to do and spend money on and you raise that income how drastic those those two elements if you can get those under control how much you can see that progress oh it's huge so what would the key be someone listening right now and they're thinking okay these guys got out of 36 000 worth of debt what would you say like the secret to getting out of debt is i heavily relied on my nerd i'll 100

admit it but um no i mean just just be a

team about it communication and everything is huge so what what did marriage look like for you guys because i mean this is a big it's a big struggle for people money and getting on the same page and i know i love that you're just so uh you just raise your hand and say yeah i'm the free spirit i'm the one that pushed back against it but what did those conversations look like at

the beginning a lot of them were let's sit down and talk to budget and i'd say maybe later and you know eventually it got to i wanted to talk about the budget but i mean it was a lot you know there was there was the tough times i mean you know we used to go on road trips to go visit family and we'd just listen to the show over

and over and it was just it was driving it was huge yeah it's amazing too because you guys had to make those sacrifices and now you get to experience the reward of it not just financially but even just oh my gosh we were a team we didn't see each other a lot when we were working those jobs and now it's like we get time together and you can take your foot off

the gas a little bit and enjoy the fruit of your hard work i think it's so interesting when people sacrifice so much they appreciate it that much more because you work so hard to get there yeah so absolutely who were the biggest cheerleaders in your life during this time like our parents yeah yeah our friends didn't really understand they're like why can't you hang out i thought you're crazy yes oh that's amazing

you guys well you've done an absolute incredible incredible job so how does it feel how does it feel standing there without any payments surreal i remember sitting in my car at like lunch breaks and listening to the show and being like so frustrated because i'm like we're never gonna get here it's taking forever like we only have like 50 extra dollars this month or whatever and so it's

so swirl being here

and being able to be where we are now and not have that weight or anything yeah it's freedom it is and and the beautiful thing that i love that you just said is i'm like there is hope that it is possible because people are right now are sitting in their cars thinking the exact same thing and you just gave them that green light to say no even though it's it's an up

and down journey right it's not this like straight up there's good days there's bad days but as you continue to be consistent in it and you get the reward and you guys did it congratulations so so excited for you well we're going to give you a copy of the legacy journey because that is your next step and the total money makeover so you can give to someone to pass on

but i'm so excited

for you guys nick and ashley from carson city paid off 36 000 in 10 months making 48 to 104

thousand dollars let's hear a big debt

free scream three two one we're dead

i love it i love it i i love their story

because i'm like this is textbook like this is exactly it and i talk to so many women who are like i can't awesome i can't you know i can get my husband on board he's the free spirit you know and then you're feeling this tension you feel like it's not gonna happen and then you're working it and it's like oh some weeks you know or some months

we only had fifty dollars and it feels like it never we're never gonna get there and and they did i just love ashley's persistence too because there's a lot of people listening right now and the spouse listening to the show is thinking i want so bad for my my spouse to get on board whether it's the the husband or wife or whatever i want so bad for my spouse to get on board

but i just love ashley's persistence and it paid off like it you know your spouse better than anybody you know the best way to go about it how to have conversations how to to connect there on things that you guys disagree on and this is one of those things that it's worth it to be persistent it's worth it to keep on talking until you can guys guys can get on

the same page because you're not going to make progress until you're on the same page and i love that they got there and uh and now they have this to show for it yeah and and and i feel like consistently two people's income goes up usually when we do this call they say well we started here but we ended here with a big jump because something does unleash

when you have a goal that you're working towards something as big as being debt-free you're looking at every avenue right you're you're picking up you're saying i can work extra i can do what i can and it just shows the beauty of like yeah when you put your mind something it can happen that's right i love it so great well again congratulations nick and ashley for being debt-free

so glad that they're here with us this is the ramsay show

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welcome back america this is the ramsey

show i'm rachel cruz hosting with christy wright and we are here to answer your questions all right we're going to go over to ian in baltimore hey ian welcome to the show

hey rachel i'm kirsty aloha um so i have

a huge um dilemma to face um my wife and

i we're currently on baby step 3b

we have our 360 emergency fund

and we have two kids under three our huge dilemma is should we travel nurse as a family to either guam or move back home to where i'm from in hawaii and that's just part a because part b is is it is it even worth it financially to do it right now with the times with you know travel nursing being um a hot commodity is it financially smart for us to move as a family

so this is such a small question ian i mean this is just a tiny little question make the decision no big deal nothing really on the line here i don't know okay so ian how much extra would

you guys make because you would do this strictly out of a financial reason not because you just like long to travel be be you know travel as a nurse with your family well my so my wife is the nurse actually um so i mean you know we have our we have

we have enough money to where we can use our use it up but we we want to buy a house but same time we don't know where we're going to end up because we've been living a nomadic lifestyle moving from utah to texas now we're in maryland but we we kind of have that itch to move again um and we don't know where to settle and but

we want to travel right now where the kids are still young they're not in school and we want to live the life you know like kind of like what you're doing disneyland on random weekends yeah so

um but we we want to have that kind of lifestyle as a for for our kids um but

at the same time we want to you know eventually settle down but travel nursing has always been on top of my wife's list and i want to make it possible for her but i don't know financially for us we're kind of country to numbers is it it's costly it's going to cost us like 6 grand you fly to guam and then you know we've talked to several nursing agencies um but it's just

i don't know i mean i don't know what to do

i'm curious about the choices here did you say guam or hawaii where someone's family is yeah i'm from hawaii okay so you'd be settled if you went to hawaii you'd probably be there for like like that's kind of like planting roots we're gonna plant roots in hawaii probably um i don't know that's the thing we i moved to hawaii because i want i moved out of hawaii to you know have a better lifestyle i guess for more opportunities i mean i can't see my kids being raised there um so why would you go to hawaii

um because we want to be customers parents and my wife has never lived there she's only visited it but she's never lived there like i have man she wants my kids to have that experience yeah yeah yeah that's right like that nomadic lifestyle i don't know any other word i just don't know what to do because we don't want to settle but we want to travel and

so i don't know what and can you give us some like what would you do in your situation if you guys were have two kids under three you you had like an opportunity to travel you have nothing no tie yeah and ann can i tell you can i tell you what i would do with with two young kids in terms of traveling traveling is the last thing

i would want to do with two children so i'm having trouble relating because travel for me is zero fun with small children like that's the most stressful activity i do with my kids so i can't even sort of relate but here's the good news for you that i will speak to you call it asking if it's a financial decision and because y'all are debt-free and because you're on baby step 3b

and you're in a good position you actually don't have to make this decision based on money you're not asking about some massive expense because you'd be making more money so i know this is not maybe what you wanted to hear but you can kind of do what you want to which is why we tell people to get debt free in the first place is so that you can do what

you want to so if you're the kind of people that travel excites you in a new

place like guam i don't know what's going on in guam i don't know let's go move there and find out with our two small kids if that is fun for you i find that crazy ian but i think you should do it i think you should do what you want to do because you've earned the spot financially to be able to do what you want to do even

if i don't get it if somebody else doesn't get it it's your life your kids your family your money and you can and that's the coolest place to be so i think i think if you want to go you go go to guam and go

amen sister christy i i will i'm like

not no longer like i cannot relate and i would never want to drink my two-year-old with grandparents so we don't have to be on a plane with them so christie or we don't get it but no but for real ian christie's exactly right it's what you guys want i mean literally my i we had friends they sold their house put all their stuff in a storage unit

because they had no debt they saved up a ton of money over three years and their goal was to travel for six months around the world with their kids yeah and they did it and they paid cash and they did it and that's what you can do it's what you guys want so um yes understand and know that

each of these scenarios the hawaii or the traveling nurse maybe not to go on but somewhere else it's always going to be available so if you guys choose one and say hey we're going to move to hawaii for a little bit i would not buy a home in hawaii if you're not going to be there more than five years just that's a little financial advice i'm gonna give

you um but yeah maybe you go rent there for a year and your wife's like perfect i got the experience right now i'm done and then maybe you say all right we're gonna go back to the the big land of north america i guess hawaii's in north america go back and you know be have a more predictable lifestyle in a sense that we're gonna buy a home

and settle down or maybe you leave hawaii and you say we wanna go travel and be a nurse and now you can like these options aren't there's not gonna be closed doors i don't think for you guys um coming up does that help ian at all us just kind of talking through it uh yes it does um it's just like you know like the living situation i

we know like the market is so volatile right now um and it's just uh i guess financially

we're thinking like is it is it worth it to you know pay for our flights here and there to to live for that you know contract that she you know what if it's six to eight to 13 weeks um i'm not sure if you guys are from like travel nursing but like you know it's very it's unpredictable uh nothing is guaranteed there so you could have a contract that

you know it'll expire and then oh you need to go find another one so you'll have to move you know so just right but you make more right you make quite a bit more okay so here's the thing i just want to remind you you're not considering going to guam for nursing you can nurse right where you can have nursing the nursing job right where you are you're going for

the experience one of the things you said on this call that i think is so important to pay attention to is we have the itch rachel and i don't have that itch we don't know that itch that you're talking about but if you have it that's why you're going you're going for the experience of experiencing nursing somewhere else yes you're going to make a good income that will offset

the cost to get there but you're not going because it's a financial move if you think of it as a financial move then it doesn't necessarily make sense you're going because you want to have the experience of going somewhere you've never been and that's oh you're perfectly able to do that and that's totally fine i think it just comes down to you figuring out what this looks like for

you in your life and it's okay if it looks different than someone else it's okay if it doesn't look like your neighbors or what your parents did that's what's really cool about the world we live in you have put yourself in a position financially to look at that and say where do we want to work where do we want to live and maybe we're going to be nomads forever

and that's cool you can do that yep absolutely and i think that that is um the key part that i want people to hear about this is that they are in a place that they have no debt they have a fully funded emergency fund and they're saving up babysit 3b which is for a down payment on a home and again ian i would not purchase a home unless you're going to be somewhere for five years or longer

so just keep that savings going if you want but don't feel the pressure to put that down for a down payment on a house you're only going to be somewhere for a year or two but they but they have these choices they have the freedom with options and choices of what they want to do and that's the power of this you guys when you are intentional with your money

and you don't owe anyone anything and you have a safety net of a savings account like you get to make these decisions yeah maybe our parents generation thinks that we're crazy and you know but but i'm like you can you can go travel you can go live in hawaii for a year or two rent and why not i mean if that's what you're choosing to do and that's what that's what's fun for

you guys and as a family that's something you guys value there's nothing immoral about that you can you can live that out well that's what that's what everything that we teach is about it's not about the money it's about the options it gives you when you have money you have power when you have money if you control when you have money you have options you can move or

you want to move cover expenses you want to cover do what's right for you and so that is the purpose it's it's it allows you that and and you've got that ian you've done great absolutely absolutely well as we close out this hour i want to thank producer ben hill and associate producer kelly daniel and you chrissy for being on with me and you america for listening

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story [Music]

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am rachel cruz best-selling author and ramsey personality sitting beside me today on the show is christy

wright best-selling author ramsey personality host of the christy wright show and real life friend yeah we're taking your calls working together and getting to have a little fun in the process that's right so you can give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five all right we have a

jeremiah in roanoke hey jeremiah welcome

to the show good afternoon rachel christie thanks for taking my call absolutely how can we help well i wanted to jump right into my question before i give a 10 second plug thank you for everything you guys do in educating the nation on the student bone crisis and the alternates by god's grace i am actually in the dissertation phase of a doctorate and have been able to make

it the entire way through without a penny of debt so it is happening i appreciate wow can i ask you a question jeremy how are you how did you do that because people think that's impossible it it you'd think it was impossible but no it's not uh it was a combination of there were some scholarships early on an undergraduate for my graduate degree for a master's i found out that

the school that my wife wanted to get a bachelor's in nursing in if i had a job any job there she got preschool and i got preschool so i worked security

for the time i was there and we got preschool that way and the rest have been cash flowing amazing jeremiah well done well well done all right thanks for letting me interview you for a second what's your question for us all right so my wife and i we are currently on baby steps four through six uh we have a home right now but we're starting to outgrow it so we paused and went back to 3b and

have been just stocking uh socking it away saving up for a down payment from a building standpoint uh right now we we have about 125 000 in

equity on our existing home we've got about 40 000 above our emergency fund that is saved for the home we want to build looking to have about 100 cash on hand for the for the down payment for the build it's going to take us probably another 12 to 18 months to get there i'm getting a little anxious uh pausing this long i'm four five and six i feel like it's a wise

plan but i guess i just wanted to run the numbers but you make sure you all thought that was a good plan jeremiah how old are you i am 37. you're 37.

and so your question is pausing four five and six to continue to build on

this baby step 3b is going to take you guys another probably what six months did you say six months a year about 12 to 18 months beyond where we're at right now and it and that will be 10 to 20 for your down payment for the build or is that better twenty percent that would be twenty percent for the build and then once the build is completed

and we sell our existing home uh we would have uh lord willing uh somewhere over a hundred thousand of equity that we would apply towards the principal on the on the new build okay well jeremiah i'll i'll say this i you're fine i understand that 12 months of pausing retirement um is kind of freaky and you're like oh gosh but you're going to be able to make up for that

so fast not just with your age but the fact that you guys already are going to have so much equity going into this home you're going to get to baby steps four five and six really quickly uh maybe even baby step six you may be able to pay off this house even even the new build you know with you know i didn't even ask the numbers but um faster for sure than that 15-year mortgage

and that's going to give you more cash to go and invest other places not just retirement i mean you guys can open up mutual funds you can invest in real estate you guys are going to be you're going to be totally fine i mean if you're 65 with no savings no retirement this is a different conversation but you guys are in a great spot and i understand

the feeling of still pausing retirement feels like oh but as much cash as you can put towards and get hit that 20 you can avoid pmi i mean there's there's a lot of pros here uh in the short term and in the long term you're just not gonna be that affected by it mathematically yeah and it's just it comes down to what's right for you at the right time

this is right for you right now you've decided this is a priority and so it's just a temporary

redirection of your funds and your focus and then you're going to get right back on track all right coming up next is forest in

west virginia hey forest welcome to the show hello oh how can we help yeah so i have a question about um it's

about a debt situation um so me and my wife we i brought in about fifty eight thousand

dollars with student loan debt and uh marriage and she brought in about sixteen thousand and i just got a job as a teacher and and she's an engineer so it was looking pretty good as far as paying off the debt but she's wanting to stay home with our with our son now so i was wanting to know is there any way that we can really make this possible anytime soon or

this is something we're gonna have to power through how much are you guys making a year together and then how much would you make if she stopped working about a hundred grand um but together we are okay but we stopped working it'd be about 35 000

about about 49 000 because i'm a youth pastor too and they pay me a stipend but okay um but uh that'd be about how much we make yep okay um well again we we took a call like this in the last hour and for us this is this is one of these questions that it's it's kind of a value system conversation to have and we talk to a lot of people on

the debt-free stage and they say you know the things we wanted in life we paused including staying at home because we wanted this debt knocked out and the fastest way we could do that was with you know two incomes coming in and just knocking it out really quickly and then and then having no debt you have so much so many options beyond that some people say no

this is something that i feel called to like i'm i'm going to be home and figure out maybe a way to earn some extra money while home and it's going to take us a longer debt-free process but we just know the deeper you sacrifice lifestyle the more income you're bringing in the faster obviously mathematically you're going to be getting out of debt what's the age of your do

you have one child or how many kids you have i have one he's 15 months old 15 months okay yeah i i agree and i know that some

of the things that go into that decision are the ages of kids because some people think oh well when my kids are in school like i don't mind going back to work at all i just want to be home in these you know young years and these are all things you guys should talk about so it's it's kind of a more extreme example of where someone says oh should

i cut out you know all television all cable all everything to get out of debt or am i going to keep my cell phone and maybe it takes me a little bit longer so there's a there's a range in there of how gazelle intense you guys want to get and what other things that affect like like how old your son is and whether or not you want to be home

you will get a debt faster obviously with two incomes the thing that i like to do for us and this is something that you guys can have this conversation is i don't like two bad options like oh i'm gonna work full time and not feel like i don't get to see my kids or i'm going to be in debt forever what is is there a third or fourth or fifth option where she's working from home or starting a side business or doing a virtual assistant where maybe there's a happy medium

and you just look at other options to consider as you as you plan your next step that's great yep looking at all different options yeah it doesn't have to be a or b right there's other things out there for sure it's a great question for us thanks for calling in this is the ramsay show [Music]

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welcome back to the ramsay show i am rachel cruz and with me hosting today christy wright and we are taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five all right up next from canada ontario

gazette is with us hey welcome to the show hey guys uh rachel christie thanks for taking my call absolutely how can we help uh so my wife and i finally got married back in september and we are expecting a child in february

yeah congratulations amazing thank you thank you very much and so right now we've been saving up some uh

we have some money and savings and we're

driving a houthi we just have one car um and i kind of feel like it's coming to the end of its life i got it it has a

couple problems uh you know check engine light 300 000 kilometers um i've got it checked out they weren't 100 able to tell me what was wrong with it so i'm going to get a second check done on it but essentially you know i'm just wondering when would be a good time to up you know move up in vehicle we have about 12 000 saved up right now

but since we got married i also took on

some of her debt so went from baby step three back to two and uh we have about 35 000 in student loans that there and that's about it

um so when it comes to the car situation and considering where you guys are in the baby steps i mean obviously you're gonna be paying cash for the next car um and the baby comes in february you

said you guys yeah um so what what do you think you could sell it for have you kelly blue book did all the the current car you have um yeah i mean with the with the you know the kind of work that it needs no more than like five or six hundred dollars probably okay okay so it really is a hooptie is what we say okay it is a 2003 honda element nice okay hey

that's pretty good it's lasted lasted a good bit yeah i like it i like it it has it's just it has a really bad like vibrating problem right now at like highway speeds as well as a transmission solenoid i think it was like it's got a few problems well my rule of thumb always again with cars is this is something that gets you to point a to point b and in this situation you want something obviously reliable but it is amazing to me how many five six

thousand dollar cars are out there that are great cars that

that will last and are reliable and can get you through this so so i don't want you when you do replace the car um obviously to buy anything crazy expensive this again needs to get you to point a to point b um and so it's you're not gonna be spending a ton and i would take that 12 grand i mean maybe take 5 000 of it go buy honda

civic i always use honda i don't know why they go forever i do i know a honda toyota or something something that just goes i like the hondas yeah the hondas

are pretty good toyotas they just they have longevity i was looking at a crv at around hopefully i don't know five grand was a bit too much but they seemed like whenever i seem to find one it just seems to sell like right away so is it something i should maybe pull the trigger on if i see a good deal on or just wait i was hoping to get into a new car by

the time the baby comes around yeah i mean i would say at this point i mean if your car's worth 500 and you still have to do maintenance on all of it i mean it's inevitable you're gonna have to get a new car soon so yeah so yeah if there is something and again you guys talk it out see what you're comfortable with and then i i really want

you guys to lay out the rest of this money because um because you're gonna be able to knock out some of this thirty five thousand dollars with your savings keeping that thousand dollar savings account but i i want you guys still focused on getting this out i know you know you're you're in a fun new season you're newly married baby on the way all of it but getting

this 35 000 that needs to be the biggest priority and so the club

yeah we're on a budget uh you know we have both read um it is dave ramsey's

complete guide to money um which you know people found super helpful my boss gifted it to me so we're on a monthly budget um i guess the size question is when would be a good time to sort of i know you guys say you know to pause when we're expecting uh or just emergencies in general so when would be a good time to sort of take what

we have saved up and just start tackling the debt again um that's a great point i totally forgot about that i'm obviously in the third hour the show yes yeah you guys don't need to be that's right you need to be yes saving you're doing exactly right and when the baby comes you guys are home from the hospital mom's good baby's good that's when you go and take

the rest of that cash yes and pay it off you're exactly right pausing baby step two while you're expecting um is what we recommend so i would i would continue to do that yeah and you're gonna get a position to take about half of that get you a better car that's going to give you peace of mind when the baby's here and then keep saving between now

and then and then take that and put everything other than a thousand dollars at that debt and you'll just keep tracking that's right great job all right up next we have tony in fort lauderdale hey tony welcome to the show

hey can you hear me yes we can what's going on hey well it's really cool to be talking to both of you i really like the podcast um and thanks for taking my call thank you um to be brief i i would say that i started this whole money makeover like two years ago i've been trying to do the dave ramsey plan and um you know continue on that route

but you know obviously i've made mistakes down the road but in the last couple months um you know me and my girlfriend that we had been dating and living together for six years she decided to kind of leave break up whatever you want to call it so we're going through a transition right now so my two questions are um i don't know if you guys have any great advice or like any best places to recommend selling an engagement ring um

so i bought one for like 5400 like in 2019 i just haven't presented it just because you know i just never really saw an opportunity and then this came up obviously yeah um and then the second

question is like going through a transition like you know leaving your current home and then um you know starting a new rent by yourself is that a time to like stop the baby steps temporarily and like put a little bit more into savings to try to like re-um you know discover your new bills

well how are you doing tony i mean you you broke up with a long-term girlfriend that you had a ring for for a few years yeah no i mean it's definitely really sad um but luckily you know i've got a good group of friends and stuff and you know i don't necessarily know if there's like you know something on her end that she's not telling me like mental health or drugs that has to do with why she's reporting

but like you know so it's not like i've got like any great answer for why we broke up um but like you know mentally i'm you know i've read a codependent no more and you know so i'm trying to just uh stay positive yep i'm sorry you're going through that yeah that's that's hard um as far as selling the ring somewhere specific there's there are you know used yeah jewelry stores

i mean there are places that do that i don't know if i know somewhere specific in fort lauderdale i don't know if you know no i think you just do a little bit of research i mean it's just going to take some asking around going you could literally go to jewelry stores um i mean you could sell it yourself like you know like we say private party with a car yourself um

you could do that on craigslist facebook marketplace i mean if you do you have debt yes um yeah i do i have uh i can list it

out if you guys want just how much total

uh total is twelve twelve hundred twelve thousand seven hundred on a personal loan ninety four hundred on a car and then another four thousand on ammo okay that cree the reason i asked is because that creates a little bit more urgency if you didn't have debt i'd be like well you can kind of hang on to this ring until you really find a good price for it that

you feel good about selling it for um it's a little bit more urgent with this debt because you could take the money that you're going to get from it and put it on that debt but yeah i think i think as far as selling it where to sell it you literally treat it like as if we were you're going to make a big purchase and you're going to ask around who can

you get the most you know where can you get the most money for it do a little bit of digging whether that's um you know private party through facebook marketplace craigslist whatever if there's a jewelry site like a consignment jewelry site um and asking some jewelry stores just asking around a little bit i think we'll tell you how to go about that one yeah and then i would not stop

the baby steps tony i mean at this point i would still continue on don't go purchase a home if you're moving out of your place rent for a little bit and start working on tackling this debt but with money from that ring and everything should help you in it so i'm sorry tony you're going through that but i appreciate appreciate your call this is the ramsay show

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welcome back america i am rachel cruz and with me co-hosting today is christy

wright and we have some fun things kind of going on here at ramsey solutions and um

and and some stuff because it's been a hard a hard 18 months 24 months yeah for

a lot of people well and the whole heart behind this show is to help you guys get control of your money and the good news is this show is a great way for you to have that ongoing inspiration and encouragement hear the stories of people hear the advice that maybe you have a similar question but the reality is we also have a lot of tools that help

you put this into practice and i know that the last year and a half has been really hard i know a lot of you have experienced a ton of stress a ton of worry a ton of wondering what's going to happen next and man the unknown is just

so overwhelming it's just the fear of not knowing what's gonna happen you've probably felt that with your money you felt tired stuck stretched too thin we've all been there but it doesn't have to be that way you just need a plan because a plan gives you the confidence that you need even when everything else seems out of control and that plan that we have created that is proven that

we have used to teach people to get out of debt and build wealth is called financial peace university this class will teach you everything you need to know to save money pay off debt and build wealth for the future you can stream the lessons on your own or you can get support by going through the class with other people then here's what you'll do you'll put that plan into action with

the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app it actually syncs your bank to your budget and you can easily track your spending and see where your money goes you get all this with a ramsey plus membership this is why we talk about ramsay plus it is our class that teaches you what to do with your money and our budgeting tool that helps you put it into practice

and live this out every single day you don't have to stay exhausted and overwhelmed you can win with money to start your free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33789 that's trial two three three seven eight nine give it a try for free practice this budgeting thing watch some of the lessons and watch how you instantly

reduce the stress you reduce the overwhelm because you have a plan you have the tools and you know what you need to do to get control of your money that's trial to 33789

trial to 33789 to start your free trial of ramsey plus take the class and get the budgeting app yep and a lot of people that that call in to do their debt free screen they there's something that has helped them listening to the show helps a lot of them say financial peace university and getting more content and more knowledge on how to apply it talking with friends

and having community around you i mean there's so many aspects to this journey and ramsay plus gives you so many of those tools right there so it is it's such a it's such a helpful thing and again financial peace university it's it's our flagship program that has helped literally millions of people get educated like this is it's all it's mind-boggling to me i've done this you know i've been in

this for 12 years now but still i'm like you can graduate from college and you don't have a club you you haven't been you haven't gone through a class necessarily on the basics of budgeting and insurance and emergency funds and the difference between money market accounts and mutual funds like the the basics of personal finance the class that you need it is financial peace university you don't always get

it in an educational setting even though we have foundations and personal finance our curriculum in high schools all over america but man this is like the class that everyone needs and the reason we put everything that we do into plan format is because when you can see it you can do it so we don't just give you a bunch of scattered information a bunch of um disconnected pieces of

the puzzle we actually show you step by step and you will find that in any book that we write any book that we publish any product that we create any course that we create it's in a plan format it is going to be a step-by-step plan so that you know what steps to take because truly when you can see it you can do it all right up

next is bob in west palm

beach florida hey bob welcome to the show hey christy rachel how are you doing we're doing great how can we help yeah so i have one question my question for you today is um i graduated as an engineer this past summer and i am extremely passionate about fishing so i've developed an idea for a fishing backpack i want to try to manufacture but it's pretty expensive the whole process of um manufacturing

you know you need to order a certain minimum of units so i project more or less it would be um around 10 to 15 000 which

seems a lot to me so i'm pretty hesitant

on it because i like at the end of the day i just don't know if it'll do well in the market okay you're cutting out a little bit bob what are you manufacturing i'd miss the actual thing you're manufacturing yeah a fishing backpack a fishing backpack yeah okay so when you sorry i've got some follow-up here really quickly when you talk about there's a minimum order typically there's a minimum order for a price break

but you could order small batch orders it's just gonna be much more expensive per unit is that the case in your situation or you're saying they will not manufacture it for less than whatever this this minimum is you're saying yeah because it's a unique design they don't want to go through trouble i guess to manufacture a small amount they said that the minimum for them would be 500

and i've contacted a few others and more or less that is the minimum amount

okay do you have any past experience bob was selling this type of backpack like do you do you have any track record of it no past experience whatsoever yeah do you have anyone to sell it to bob do you have an audience do you have a blog do you have a fishing community that you hang out with that you have uh qualified people that would want this backpack

i do not all right these are some red flags for me bob if you had an audience like let's say that you had a podcast you had a blog you had a fishing community you teach phishing classes some people that would be interested in this product then i would say you could you could put the money into it if you have it okay we're only going to cash flow

this i don't want you to take out any debt but you could even do it on pre-order like you could pre-sell these take the payment and then use some of that cash to fund it let's say that you pre-sell them you know for two months and you at least get a a good chunk of cash and those release

you know on whatever date you you deem that they're going to release the fact that you don't have anyone to sell it to is the biggest concern to me because it doesn't matter if you create the best product in the world if you don't have an audience or write the best book in the world if you don't have audience then no one's going to buy it and

so what i would encourage you to do that is more concerning to me than just the money i would encourage you to work on the marketing of it to work on building the audience creating the demand around it getting yourself in these spaces um to generate interest and maybe

maybe for you it looks like you're going to create um uh you know an ebook a download something to start building an email list of people that are interested in fishing that are interested in this thing that you're going to create a product around but you just start to generate some demand and brand yourself as an expert in the space or a person that provides content and solutions in

this space then maybe in a year maybe in a year i'm not saying you can't do it but right now you're going to have 500 backpacks on your hand and it's not because the idea is not awesome it's just because you don't have people to sell it to you um if you'll stay on the line bob i would love to have kelly send you a copy of my book business boutique

i know it says a woman's guide for making money doing what she loves but the business principles are proven whether you're a male or female it doesn't really matter but i talk about getting your market i talk about marketing and building your market building the demand for this thing and so that would be a great resource for you to start to think about how you're going to get into

the spaces where the people are that would want this thing and then go create it when you have people to sell it to if you've got the cash i think that you can sell 500 of these i just think you need the people there in order to be able to do that bob i'm just curious what do you do for a living how did you get into creating

and inventing this fishing backpack yeah so i i'm an engineer by trade so it's very natural for me to just create

stuff again and a follow-up question um

well when you're doing like when you're making a company like this and yourself financing this is there a percentage of your net worth that would be considered too risky to put into it for example i have 60 000 saved up over my lifetime so would it be feasible or would it be too risky for me to put five thousand ten thousand into this company or any other company that

i might want no you can that's not too risky you just need a proven business plan that you're gonna be able to make it back because just because you have it it's easy to lose it because you're like oh i've got it i still want your business plans showing that you can make that back check out one more thing bob i've never used it but i've heard of people that have startup labs startuplabs.com it's where

you can start to generate interest around your idea try that i've heard someone else use that i don't know anything about it but that could be another resource for you that's great this is the ramsay show

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the lord himself goes before you and will be with you he will never leave you nor forsake you do not be afraid do not

be discouraged deuteronomy 31 8. it's never too late to

be what you might have been george eliot rachel you got some exciting news you have a new color of your walls

so fun so the rachel cruz wallet has um it's been a fun project for me to to to do and to finally have people actually buy and use because it's a year have you had it out a year yeah over and it is it's it's everything we talk about when it comes to because i love talking about budgeting i love talking about how um living this plan doesn't mean

you can't enjoy life or have a great life that was always kind of my assumption i feel like as a free spirit as a spender i'd hear the word budget and it was like oh well that means you can't go shopping you can't go on vacation you can't have any fun and i was like god people on budgets are terrible people like that is not a fun life

but really truly living this out especially after once i got married and realizing no a budget really does give you this freedom it gives you this peace of mind because you have a plan you know what's going on never once are you okay i went to target today here's a great example and our our neighborhood we'll do these like little boob baskets i don't know if y'all haven't you've been booed have

you heard of this no you so you like do a basket with just some treats and stuff and you like don't know who it's from but you go to your front door and there's a little basket it says you've been boots then you've got to go is this for halloween or just for house no for help yeah yeah yeah around halloween so guys i go to target

and i was like okay and i looked in our little miscellaneous category on every dollar and i was like perfect i know how much we have left i mean like i spent all that on this little blue basket but i'm like i can go down the target aisle you know and just have the girls pick out some stuff and i'm like that's great i'm not sitting there being like

this is a waste of money is this so good you know and you're second guessing everything you can enjoy life right but you have a plan and so the wallet has a built-in envelope system because when you're starting budgeting if you if you are early on in this process we recommend cashing out a few categories just to have cash because you end up not only spending less

when you spend with cash studies have proven that but also it's just this built-in accountability you know how much you have in each category and it just gives you this extra sense of control well people use paper envelopes and all that which is fine but i was like this can be cute this could be beautiful and we can have a really great wallet and us ladies out

there who have a lot of stuff and so i created the wallet the rachel cruz wallet and so there's holder you know there's tons of card holders for memberships or debit cards you have and then and then these slots for your cash and so we came out with a black and camel version that have colors that have sold tremendously well and then came out with a metallic blush for just a limited time that sold out in like

i think two weeks 14 days and so we have launched this week the third uh color that will be where you can consistently buy it's not for a limited time uh but it's the classic brown yeah so that is out and yeah perfect christmas gift and and that's what's fun because we were just talking about this earlier but there's all kinds of shipping weirdness going on in

the country and um yeah you can get your christmas gifts early i've i've done most of my christmas shopping already because i was so scared of the shipping issues and so i just even just a couple days ago hit it and all the spots in the you know the kids can't find um but if you want to get this as a gift for someone someone that is a huge fan someone that's on

the ramsay plan um this is a great gift it's it's in the box the presentation is beautiful um but that's true for anything um in our store at rmc solutions.com if you want to get some of the book if you want to get um uh the goal planner my 2022 goal planner is out if you want to get them ken's new book all of these things are available to

you in the ramsey solutions store and i would just encourage you to shop early especially for things that could sell out my goal planner sells out every year um you know i don't know what the inventory is like on the wallet but go ahead and get it and you don't worry about shipping you don't have to worry about stressing out about that and you've got it for christmas it's a great gift

and it's a good reminder it's 10 weeks to christmas you guys crazy is that not nice it's almost the end of october so pl plan this you guys look at

christmas is always the holiday that people we overspend people go into deep debt for and it is because we're not planning so we're giving you lots of heads up lots of heads up uh on being

able to plan for things um especially around the holidays and yes i turned on the news too and all the shipping cargo that's just sitting there i'm like oh god i got stressed just seeing the picture i was like oh my gosh so it's crazy all right up next is josh

from indianapolis hey josh welcome to the show hi i'm so excited to talk to you too absolutely how can we help well i'm getting married this weekend congratulations wow yay thanks and we are also moving um in two months um

so we we are unsure of what um our emergency fund should look like or what our moving costs uh we kind of we have a mover already kind of established but we won't be employed uh when we get where we're going um so we're we're just kind of i'm i'm i like to i don't know i don't know where we should be okay what's the story i feel like there's more to

this story you're getting married why are you moving what what where where are you moving to my we're actually moving from um new york to indianapolis

um and um yeah so we have a fully funded emergency fund we don't have any debt we're we're investing awesome but some of that a lot of that makes me nervous um because we won't we don't have jobs yet um but

you know we both have skill sets that i think will will get jobs quickly what's in indianapolis josh just curious family yes family okay cool and if you're in new york it's probably a lesser uh expenses when it comes to the living yeah yeah and it's politically oppressive yeah fair and there's a great uh this is a great time to get it i mean everybody's hiring so you're yeah i'm not worried about

you being able to get a job when you get there and it sounds like you'll have put yourself in a really great position financially already yeah be a debt-free and emergency fund i would say just be just be aware of it i mean even even though i know you guys have the movers it's in two months so maybe if you haven't already maybe you did price out a couple of movers

and just be aware and and i would not at this point buy anything right now in indianapolis not because of the market or anything just because of you guys are newly married you're going to a new city you've just coming off of living in new york and it's like okay just take a breather um but this emerges yeah she's never lived in indianapolis so i think that's that's what our plan was as well just kind of get a sense for

the neighborhoods but i should also mention i'm going to grad school starting in january too but it's it's flexible it's online and

but i'll be working i'll be trying to trying to work full-time so yeah that kind of it also it just adds to the concern like being married moving and a new lifestyle

or of going back to studying and workings too so it's yeah it's a lot and it seems like you're aware of it you know and and you'll plan for that the other thing i would say is you can start looking for jobs now i think if you have if you had a job lined up by the time you got there in the next couple months that would give you peace of mind you're not starting from scratch when you get there start looking now and it's very normal to do zoom interviews or they may fly you in for further interviews we do that here as a company when we're recruiting people or talking to people from out of state so you don't have to wait till you get there to start looking that may relieve some of your stress of feeling like oh my gosh i'm moving and this and this and this if you had a job lined up or your wife did that could just help alleviate that but it sounds like you know what you're in for i would just just like rachel said reduce stress in the areas that you can so not buying a house will reduce stress trying to line up a job starting now will reduce the stress there are there are some variables in this that you can control to just not eliminate it but reduce the stress of the whole situation yeah how old are you guys josh i'm just curious 31 and 32.

later in life i mean both have pros and cons right there's pros and cons getting married young and later but you guys do have two established lives that you're going to be coming in and kind of merging and again pros and cons to that but um but i think that there's some some great there's there's a level of stability there because you guys kind of know who

you are you know even on a logistical level the careers you have your passions where you're going all of that so i think that's that gives you some kind of foundation there for sure yeah you're right because there's a there's a hard part of getting married later because you're you're kind of established yeah yeah exactly i mean there's a lot there's a hey i have my life

and when you're 21 you're like i don't know we'll just figure it out together right that's right yeah that's right that's all of it it's all of it but the emergency fund josh that's why that's why we teach that is for moments like this even though i know it's not a quote-unquote emergency but you have savings there lined up if you need it well christy this was fun today that's great

i love it love hanging out with you and thank you guys out there for calling in and listening in uh hopefully this show helped you i want to thank producer ben hill and associate producer kelly daniel and again you america thank you so much this is the ramsay show

[Music]

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show you can listen to all our shows with the ramsay network app on your smartphone browse by topic or even sync clips to your friends download the ramsay network app in your favorite app store today [Music]

you

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## 212. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 25, 2021)


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[Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm christy wright author of the new book take back your time the guilt-free guide to life balance and i'm joined today by my good friend fellow ramsay personality dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five

if you have a call about money if you have a question about relationships of course if you have a question about starting a business y'all know i love talking about that we are just a week out of our business boutique event that we had last week which was awesome john deloney rocked it on stage was that so fun for you by the way that was the most fun man they're a great crowd incredible crowd yeah okay

so you can tell me the psychology of this but here's what's fascinating about that specific audience because it is 99 women 99.8 but yeah okay thank you uh there is

something about the safety of that they feel very safe to be more expressive they laugh they have so much fun you set that up because i went to that event early okay i heard about this quote-unquote vibe are you are you going to tell the story of what what happened backstage yes um i was scouting it out because i don't normally talk to that crew and um although on my show it's that's that's

the the demographic but i'm usually speaking to business owners and and rough and tumble folks and so i went into that vibe and what you created was a room of 14 or 1500

terrified i'm not here by myself and you

systematically interjected safety you interjected hey

you're gonna have to just let that go because that's not how we're gonna roll in here and then yeah i roll up and i just walked backstage and there was like dancing going on and i thought what is happening this is if i have to dance tomorrow in spandex and heal i'm not gonna be able to do this and anyway but what you did though and that's

so strategic was you made everybody say dude you gotta put all of your am i standing right am i the right am i the right fit or the right that's all got to go because we're about to dance we're recording the whole thing right it was awesome yeah well it was it was really cool there's a there's a method to my madness people may not see it

first glance but we had a you know there's a girl on our woman on our team that is an nfl cheerleader and um she choreographed this dance because it's a trend on on instagram reels and tic toc to to make up dances and dance to it and it wasn't about the dance you know that right like it wasn't about the dance at all it was about she's going to come out

she does this dance they all think they're observing they all think we're being entertained by this professional dancer and then courtney turns to them and says you're going to do that and they're like no i'm not right like they immediately think no i'm not i can't i'm not a dancer these are all the excuses which is basically a an analogy for life and business i can't i can't

i can't they're different i'm not smart enough not business minded don't have a business background and then they break it down into steps dance steps four counts break it down step by step they do it again and again and again and before you know it that whole crowd of almost 2 000 women are doing the dance and it was about what you can do when you get outside your comfort zone what

you can do when you break something down into steps how you you thought 20 minutes ago you could do that now you're doing it that's the message of it and there's also a few and by the way you're gonna have fun while i'm teaching you this message there was a few brave souls who went first yeah that inspired everybody yeah because everyone's looking around and there's a few rock stars who may have been

there a few times that thought oh here we go i'm all in right and they made it okay for everybody else yeah and that just reminded me when i went home like man you got hard stuff in your neighborhood and your community go first just go first yeah awesome it was a lot of fun well you did such a great job and i know you're you're talk early connected with people there's such a power in digging into

the issues behind the issues and you guys uh experience this when you watch the ramsey show a lot of times you call in and it might just be a money question like how much am i supposed to save it might be you know kind of surface level in that sense and we'll give you the practical financial steps you can take to get to where you want to be

and get out of debt and build wealth or it might be a deeper issue i can't tell you how many times i've you know we've taken calls on the show and it's like this is actually not a money call at all it's not a money it's not a money question it's a relationship question or it's a you know some other type of question so if you have a call for dr john deloney or myself

we are here for you all day today triple eight eight two five five two two five we're going to kick this off and go to indianapolis with rebecca hey rebecca how are you good how are you good how can john and i help today can you hear me yeah yeah you're great what's going on um so i graduated in 2019 with a hundred

thousand dollars in debt 36 of that was my name and the rest was in my dad's name as a consolidated parent plus one um and then he wants me to pay it back but i'm not sure what to do here because when i went to college i actually had a full ride to one school but my parents wanted me to go to the same school that they did

i didn't have money for school and my dad just said we'd figure it out with loans and that he would sign all the paperwork and do all the details and he would just call me every semester to fill out the paperwork and get it signed and we would figure out later how to pay it back he said initially that i would pay for textbooks and tuition and that

he would take care of the grooming whether that was in the dorm or renting an apartment um but you know i found out later that he used the rent um to pay for the apartment with the parent plus lens so when i graduated he said that i'd pay two

thirds of the seventy three thousand dollar parent plus loan but now he's changing the turn to half and half and now it's kind of just we'll both work towards it until we get it paid off but he hasn't paid a penny throughout this whole entire interest rate deferment and i've been kicking my butt off to get my own loans paid off so good for you so you you guys fell prey to

the three worst words in the english language which is figured out or four we'll figure it out um which is mean let's just punt this hard decision way down the road and it just gets more complex and more messy the further along we go um i i'm torn on this christy so hop in here i part of me says your original agreement was you got into a school mom

and dad say we don't want you to go there once you go to our school we'll cover it we'll take care of it we'll figure it out in the road but we're going to take care of this and then you found out take care of it man they took out a loan in your name and now you're going to be on the hook for it um the other part of me says

i mean you're i mean your name's on the loan at the end of the day you're gonna lose your dad over this deal and you may end up having to pay this back anyway um so my off top my head christy i'd love to hear what you say my off top my head i'd love you guys to sit down you sit down with a spreadsheet or a piece of paper

and a pen across the table from your dad and said the days of we'll just figure it out are over here is the dollar amount that i slash we owe here's what you told me and we need to come away from this with a plan and we're both going to sign this piece of paper and this is going to be hard for you but you are having to be

the adult because you're being dragged around by a child masquerading as an adult does that make sense yeah well so the 36 000 alone is just in

my name and then he has 73 000 that is just his name is that 73 000 okay just

in the parent plus you're right so is that 73 was it school expenses only

or did he use that for other things i am not sure so when i calculated my room and board and tuition and everything there's an extra 25 000 that i can't account for and i'm not sure what it's for and he doesn't like to talk about it yeah there's a lot of unknowns here rebecca the the agreement up front was unknown the agreement now is unknown it's a moving target

you feel like you're not gonna be able to hit the target and you can't because it's moving i completely agree with john you sit down have a conversation come up with a new agreement you both agree on and then whatever that is even if it's that you pay all of it you'll feel peace just knowing what you're working toward here because right now it's a moving target sit down

and have a conversation nail down the terms and i think you'll feel better whatever that is this is the ramsey show

[Music]

uh

still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit ch chministries.org budget don't

worry it's worth it

[Music]

i'm christy wright joining me today is my good friend dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five just before the break we were talking about how a lot of the calls that we get on the ramsey show come in as a money call or a money decision and often it's it's really something more than that we peel away

the layers and it's either a relationship question or a communication question something else going on and i think the the call that we were just talking to you rebecca in indianapolis even before the break was it was an example of that because i've seen this too john ian you could apply this to anything in life you could apply to business or whatever it's like well we didn't really have a clear agreement up front or

we didn't really have a clear plan up front and then we both feel like we've missed the mark on the plan but it's because there was no plan right and then people are hurt there's actual financial financial consequences and uh and man that's such an example of that because now it's this ambiguous we'll figure it out and then it's not getting figured out and then dad's gonna like

so in that last call um there was about a hundred thousand dollars of of student loans 75

about 70 grand that was a was a parent plus loan 30 grand of it was um her student loans and at the beginning dad said hey you know what i'm going to take care of this we'll help you out here and then three

four five years later it's all right well you went to college and we got you through it now you're going to pay the rest of this back and then this young woman who's graduating saying whoa i feel like the terms were switched oh and by the way i did the math and there's 25 000 or so extra dollars here and that's something christy that happens a lot as people get

these student loans they get big checks that may cover all their tuition all their own board and there's an extra 4 5 7 five thousand dollars left it takes a special level of discipline to have that much money and not spend it on i need a house repair or a car repair i remember i had a check like that and my transmission fell out and i just used student loan to pay for that

and i didn't think about the fact that it's gonna i'm gonna end up paying 18 times for that transmission right and so don't

ever go into a financial arrangement with anybody without sitting down having the hard conversation up front because my promises that hard conversation becomes way harder later and the relationship is the casualty on the back end so in that in that example with rebecca so you were saying you know so she was saying just her name is on around 30 000 something like that and then heard just her dad's name is on

this other part so um legally she can walk away so okay dude i'm paying my thirty six thousand i'm out yeah and then what he's gonna say is my ungrateful right daughter whatever right but but don't you think that there's a there's a um it's reasonable to say if she's going to pay part of the parent plus to only pay the part that she can account for absolutely that

she can't account for i didn't use this i don't know what you put on it but i'm not paying for this mysterious thousand and that i didn't use that's the problem is now you're waiting and now what dad's gonna say is are you telling me that i ripped my daughter off twenty five thousand you call me a liar call me a cheat like well you know at that point speak to me from from your perspective at that point isn't that a boundaries issue of like i'm going to cover my basis

and do what i said i would like to do which is boundaries you that all that manipulation is on you if you don't have boundaries you will at some point and they will either be imposed on you or they will be built out of self-defense self-preservation not out of mutual

out of i get to do this it becomes i have to do this and you never want to build boundaries out if i have to because that's always protecting yourself from someone that you should be in close relationship like your dad right that'll that'll preach john you're going to have boundaries regardless i get to from a healthy perspective we all agree on or i have to out of self-preservation

i can have boundaries about what i eat every day or at some point i'll be in a hospital bed and the physician right there they will be imposed on me i can treat my wife this way this way or i will get a boundary you will not have it right so you will get boundaries man what you want to do is set them as early as possible

and towards what you want not what you have to respond to good man that's really good that's powerful all right we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna go to knoxville tennessee with jesse hey jesse how are you pretty good how are you guys good what's going on well um my wife and i just moved to knoxville a couple days ago a few weeks ago

we previewed the apartment we would be moving into and it looked immaculate and on move-in day it was an absolute mess i mean maintenance was still pulling somebody else's stuff out it was a wreck i talked to the manager of the place and uh and basically said fix it and she put us in the town home on the property which is awesome but the townhome still has a whole host of issues

and i don't really know how to approach it um okay when you said you toured it it was immaculate you toured like the the model i'm guessing okay and then this one is the real one which has people's stuff in it how long is your lease jesse uh 13 months so you're in this one for a minute um i i know that the these tenant

laws are sometimes um state specific um oftentimes city specific i can tell you an experience i had in texas where my wife and i moved into our first apartment it was a disaster there was bugs everywhere it was a wreck it wasn't taken care of and ultimately they said go get a lawyer and um they called my bluff and it would have cost me x amount of dollars to fight

this thing and get and drag it out and we only had six months left and so ultimately we wrote it out and then left um but really you've got a legal obligation what i would recommend is that you send stuff in writing because they do have some legal responsibilities if you write down here are the things that are not finished then you can begin to build a case

so if this is a pattern of behavior if the um things are messy turns into things that are unsafe or unsanitary you will have a pattern of in writing

not just hey i called over on this day and if you did call document that phone call but just open up a file and this is super annoying and i'll tell you this for you and your spouse um this can be a thing you'll do together that brings you closer together or this can become a fist fight that divides you don't let the second happen be intentional about

it and send registered letters send emails with read receipts on them and if you do have a conversation make sure you document that in a special journal there and so if it does get messy if you do decide you know what i'm not paying this for another 11 months or 10 months um you can call an attorney and see if they can get you out of that lease yeah

the one the one piece of this that is encouraging to me in the in the context of your story and your question jesse is that they seem somewhat like they're willing to make it right are they are they like the fact that they put you in a town home and they're trying to fix it are they trying are they trying or are they just kind of like yeah

this is it deal with it but i mean it's hard to tell because we moved in on thursday and then friday was the first day where we really had a good look at the town home but all of our stuff was already here we tested out some of the appliances and they only kind of work

they were closed on the weekend otherwise i would have recorded a bunch of stuff and we just got the last of our stuff from our old place today that took most of the day so i mean aside from me saying fix it or i'm going to take you to court and then for putting this in the town home they really haven't done it again they swapped out one uh electrical socket

you know what they swapped that one socket gotcha and it may be something that you ask them in writing obviously if i go ahead and fix these things can i deduct the cost of these from my rent and if it's a matter

of i need to order a new dishwasher i need to change these plugs out et cetera um we can deduct these out from the rim but ultimately it's going to be on you to keep immaculate records communicate in writing and don't let this steal your

um character don't stoop down to their level don't act like a an immature brat

um continue to be professional and respectable don't make big threats i'm gonna do take care of your business and if they don't take care of their professional responsibility what they agree to in the lease then you go about your options which are really i mean getting a lawyer yeah and i think it it it stinks because in situations like this jesse it's one of the things where

you just have to figure out which is the which version of hard do you want to deal with do you want the version of hard living in a place that the appliances kind of work or the version of hardware you're trying to take an apartment complex to court and the legal side both are hard yeah you just choose which one both have a cost you just choose which which costs that

you want to take and i'm sorry and you're in this position no one likes to feel misled and um and i'm just sorry yeah that really stinks i do think that if you continue to talk to them given your options um i would try to get

as much leverage as you can while maintaining good relationships just because people are going to respond better if you're nice in the process just like john said don't let it chip away at your character where you turn into a jerk you don't want to be a jerk and it's not going to get great results in being a jerk so how can you protect yourself and move forward and in the best way possible with the options you've got i hope that helps good luck to you this is the ramsay show [Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

i'm christy wright dr john deloney and i are hosting the ramsay show today for you and we're taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five and with us on the debt free stage are don

and joanne hey guys welcome hi so i'm guessing this is good news for you you are on our debt-free stage that can only mean one thing you are debt-free yep we did it congratulations y'all okay how much debt did you pay off uh over the last 20 years it's been quite a bit since we got started and married and everything but all right we really buckled down the last five years and paid off 500 000.

you want to focus on the five years or you want to focus on the full picture of the 20 years you tell me i can tell you a little bit of the full story but past five years we've buckled down but um we've been married about 34 years and started out with a little bit of nothing you know like most people do my wife stayed home with our three boys

and i worked a lot of hours to kind of make ends meet you know and she babysat and through the years i've kind of done the dave ramsey thing i'm pretty faithfully and we didn't really spend much on vehicles and just got by you know and uh

try to make it better for our kids but last five years i was actually diagnosed with parkinson's when i was 48 so we decided to buckle down and get the house paid off and and uh make it make it easier in case i got sick and couldn't couldn't keep working so wow so you paid off the house and everything this is everything wow we've done everything y'all are amazing would have been a little bit faster but we upgraded our boat and okay we really enjoy that so yeah gotta do what you gotta do what's your household income during this time um in the past five years we went from 150 to about 250.

that jump tell us that story um i changed jobs i work for ford motor company um on assembly line actually and work a lot of hours there and my wife i have my own tax uh accounting practice where dave ramsey elp provides awesome my two sons three of them are here two of them are work for me or my partners yeah so it's a family business and uh

so our income is increased a little bit so that's amazing what a story you guys have had especially over the last five years of just the motivation to do this the focus and intensity tell me a little bit about this specifically the last five years of buckling down or saying we're going to pay it all off so was that 500 000 was that all just the house or was

there other stuff in there um 275 was a house and like i said we upgraded a boat yeah which pretty good sized boat yeah you really upgraded that picture

dave always says boats are a terrible investment but we kind of bought it the right time and then covet hit and it's actually worth more than we paid for it so okay my boat is uh fits about two people in this camouflage there's holes in it it is not that boat yeah godly that's incredible look at that that's where we spend most of our time wow beautiful all right

so tell me what in the last five years especially when you guys got really focused and intense like we're gonna pay off the house in the midst of upgrading the boat and all this that stuff what was the uh what what kept you on track what what you know what did that look like in your marriage in a practical way i probably was the least he was pushing me all our marriage

and i had he'll tell you our mentor was my dad okay and i always i shouldn't say this because he's probably going to hear it but i swore i wouldn't marry anybody like my dad because he was so tight with his money and then same name too yeah same name that's amazing and my dad met him and turned him into himself done loved on thought don was

the best choice ever so and i was the spender and but the last five years i think i probably cut back and i agreed to you know help out a lot more he's worked really really hard and i kind of said okay let's do this take us back to that that i mean your stomach falls through the floor your heart stops beating when they say hey this is

this is your diagnosis this is parkinson's um and then you have to sit down and tell your wife you gotta tell your family like take me back to that moment uh it's pretty scary but we both kind of embraced it and i'm doing doing fine the last five years so um like i said we paid that 275 on the house we had a 15-year loan on it

and paid it off in probably eight years or so wow so we got the house out of the way and then the boat was a little bit and cash flowed our new car recently so just

just kind of buckle down and work a lot of extra hours over time and knock it out wow y'all are amazing the dedication in this face of that diagnosis and the the fear and all that the fact that you guys are buckling down and doing that is incredible who were your biggest cheerleaders on this journey especially this last bit well like joanne said my father-in-law was probably

the biggest influence of course our kids you know they've had to suffer a little bit through the through the years i'm not having much but they're we're here on a trip from kansas city this whole week and we're kind of treating them to this deal too to give them the little bit of fun that would we kind of cut out on when we were younger you know don i'm looking at them

i don't see a lot of suffering going on over there you're missing there uh there's 23 year olds over there in the stroller sleeping so those are our grandkids awesome that's awesome all right so for someone listening right now and they are feeling paying off their house feels impossible and they've got health things that they're struggling with and they just feel down and discouraged speak to them for a second what is what is

the key that gave you guys hope kept you motivated kept you connected to each other talk a little bit about how you stuck with it even though it's hard most people say the budget was the biggest key to keep them on track um i tried to do that like she said she was a bigger bigger spender so she would tell me well i know what i'm spending

i don't really you know need a budget but um i think the biggest thing is just to stay focused and not worry about what other people have um like i've sent a few pictures of vehicles that i drive and drove a 20 year old car for quite a few years and now we can kind of upgrade and get some yeah nicer vehicles john what would you tell somebody who just whether

they got laid off whether they are having relationship issues they lost somebody in the last couple years which we all know somebody who's passed away what would you tell somebody who's wrestling with really hard news um what's their next step like i said just uh have faith and and

keep your head down and buckle down and anything can be anything's possible i've actually got a guy that i work with at ford um he's under 30 and i kind of

influenced him a little bit five years ago and he's actually paid his house off already wow anybody anybody can do it and his wife stays home a lot too so that's incredible that's it for you man y'all are amazing and i'm sure that's just one example of the people that you've inspired and uh right now you're inspiring millions more with your story so thank you for sharing that

and thank you for just uh yeah the testimony of that hard work all right y'all we have got a copy of the legacy journey for you because that is definitely the next stage in your journey and you're already on it with paying off the house which is incredible and we've got a copy of the total money makeover you can give that as a gift to a friend pay

it forward maybe get somebody kick-started on their journey you want to get kyle and andrew and cody up there yeah you want to get the kids up there get them up there that'd be awesome all right we have got don everybody is with kyle andrew and cody y'all look so good from kansas city paid off 500 000 including the house

over 20 years but really buckled down the last five years making 150 000 to

250 000 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two

one

oh my gosh that's so awesome oh now they're kissing what a story i mean especially in the face of that diagnosis and that adversity and feeling you know when you get some news like that i'm sure you just want to get in the fetal position and just give up and they did the exact opposite yeah it's it's it's hard to think of any sort of light at

the end of a tunnel when you get a diagnosis like that that you know come two months come two years come 20 years things are going to be different and really in my experience i've seen two really different approaches and it tends to be one or the other i just throw my hands up and say this is what this is or you see a group of people rally around one

another you've got in-laws and a incredible wife support a wife and say let's just go go ahead and get this done it's kind of like we're talking about earlier the boundaries boundaries just got imposed and they can lean in and say all right this is common let's have no payments when it gets here and by the way let's have as much fun as possible let's make sure that boat is real nice

and we're gonna spend a lot of time out on the water let's not sacrifice both but let's be intentional otherwise this thing's coming in some shape at some point it's coming for us let's plan as far ahead as we can good for you guys yeah amazing amazing too because they buckled down this last five years but that was built on 20 years of following the plan so

it was that much easier to implement these strategies when they'd already been doing them they just did them with more intensity and i love that the free spirit spender is now an account that makes my heart feel good she's my kind of accountant i love it so good all right y'all we'll be back before you know it this is the ramsay show

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i'm kristy wright joining me today is my good friend and fellow ramsay personality dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five and we're going to go to harrisburg pennsylvania with evan hey

evan how are you good how are you guys good what's going on um so yeah i just had a question um my wife and i um she's 36 i'm 34.

we have a one-year-old i left my job

when she was born to be a stay-at-home dad so right now we're in um baby step like

five slash six where we started saving for

for her for college and we have a fully funded emergency fund but we're also have savings on top of that and i'm just wondering what to do with that money should we front load or 529 a little bit more so we just focus on the mortgage and get that paid

off or what will your suggestions be there yeah the interesting thing about baby steps four five and six is that they're all happening at the same time in most cases um sometimes they won't if someone doesn't have kids but in your case you do i remember recently dave was talking about doing the math of what his uh what the 529s would be when his kids went to college backing out of that

and just front loading them and then just leaving him alone so that's always an option for you if you just want to put more in there and let it grow to the amount that that you would need um that's an option and then yeah typically what people do is they just buckle down and with that excess above and beyond their budget that they you know they're enjoying some

and and you know you should enjoy some evan but above and beyond that you you pay off the house early and you know we just had a family on stage that that just paid off their house um as an example that we're seeing that more and more now with people that have been living the baby steps principles um for years and it's starting to to catch up

and pay off so yeah it would really be other than front loading that um college fund which you could do be paying off the house early and then you'd have no payments yeah evan i tell you what i'm doing in my house i got two young ones and i am uh i

am making a calculated gamble that higher ed will look different in 10 years and 15 years after being in it for 20 years it's gonna look different and so i am saving for college appropriately but i'm i'm taking any extra money and paying my house off that feels like more like a a more um present liability to me than what the cost of higher ed might look like in x number of years

let's let's just stay here for a second evan if you've got a second let's just camp here for a second and talk about this this issue with college savings because i know that that's something that a lot of people fear is exactly what you just said and they think i'm putting all this money in this account and it's going to look different what if it's not enough what

if it's too much so what what what are your thoughts on that especially you know with your background being in higher ed what's the best route to kind of go okay we're going to follow the baby steps and at the same time know that it probably will change the way they're structured right now is any sort of education or post-secondary education you can use it for and

so if i wanted to go back and get some more counseling classes or my wife wanted to go get a fill in the blank certificate or just want to do a mid-life career change which i've done just now um that 510 will pay for that right and isn't it something where if your child gets scholarships that you can then give them there's a lot of yeah he wants to yeah

so all that to say is it's it's a great retirement i mean it's a great savings tool and for those especially

for those of us who man if you look over and you've got a pile of money in account that's gonna be hard to let it sit there and grow over this over the course of time at the same time

i personally and again every teacher's owned on this one because you're doing four five and six together but i'm gonna pay my house off which is a present debt that i stare at every month that drives me crazy versus what this thing may be yeah next number of years yeah yeah evan i hope that helps and you make that such a good point too because you've got that you've got

the interest on your mortgage right now that you can knock that out and and you know get not only get it paid off earlier but then you have no payments at all you can do whatever you want to um but i love that reminder because it probably will look different and and you know what the fact that you're asking that question evan shows me that you have a lot of margin yeah

because if you did not have that margin and weren't living on a budget you would not be asking that question so well done you're doing awesome all right let's go to leah and lima ohio hey leah how are you i'm going are you good what's going on

um my husband and i we are 28 and we are

married uh 11 years now um we got two kids who are both in school we have zero debt we have a

debt-free trucking company

we have fully funded emergency fund and we are debating on opening up a restaurant

all right so what's your question for me hooray on all counts yeah first of all way to go you're doing awesome so let's start there if you sell tacos and or burritos you'll make a billion dollars what's next no you'd be sitting on the toilet

okay so yeah what can we do what can we do to help well there is a big huge building which the location would absolutely be perfect because it's literally right off of the interstate there's plenty of parking especially for truck drivers and this building has like

a section in the front which could be the restaurant part the kitchen is in the middle there's like a little tiny bakery type thing on the side with the drive-through window and on the other side of the kitchen is a huge like hall like would be perfect for like wedding venues or wedding receptions or birthday parties or whatever oh leah you're already in love leah has got

the vision leah is already in love oh no and then like in the very back there is like this little office and it would be like perfect for the trucking company like there's like three things right there in a row don't do it i just don't know if we should do it or not if you've got the cash do it tomorrow if you don't don't do it okay

let's let's start with that part of it do you have do you have the money to do this the savings to cash right now our checking company would be able to fund it in cash and we have the deposit and the first month like lease payment upfront in cash right now

yeah yeah okay so you you've got something to work with which is great here's here's a couple things that i would encourage you to do number one i would encourage you to take that big vision that you have and i see it you can see it you can see the people they're getting their coffee you've got the office look you can see it leah i hear it in your voice

you can see it what i'm gonna need you to do is back out of that idea to the babiest version of that idea you can think of is it just the front space is it just the tacos is it just the off like what is the minimum idea that we could start with to prove this concept where is it just a build out of just the front

and you're going to serve some baked goods and you're going to prove that truckers are going to stop at this place and get their okay i want the baby version that's going to be the lowest cost because it's the lowest risk while you prove the concept get some more money in the door to fuel fund all that the expansion of it to then the second part and

the third part and so on i got a head tilt to the wedding venue because i'm not having my wedding where truckers are now it's a it's a restaurant wedding venue truck driver hangout and bakery

stop meets your dream wedding i don't see that that could be a reality show well yeah maybe i still have the vision but let's start with what you know will work which is possibly a restaurant a quick serve food service off the interstate for your target market which happens to be the trucking company that you're already working so i want you to definitely come up with your baby version idea where

you can prove this part two you need you need a real business plan for this what stages are you going to do what things how much is each stage going to cost how are you going to operate it who all the details that are not as fun for visionaries like you and me but they need to happen so think of of the staffing and all of that information um

and then i want you to think through uh even the record-keeping piece of this because when you said the trucking company is going to fund it i just want to make sure that you know when entrepreneurs get into things sometimes that money can get mixed and it becomes a nightmare for taxes and record-keeping so just make sure part of your business plan is getting all of your your accounting in in order for those

the expenses of this chrissy you work with business owners all the time can i tell you my first big head tilt tell me if i'm crazy don't put a penny down on a lease until you have gotten a contract or two in there to tell you how much converting a kitchen and building it and all that because that build out may be six seven hundred thousand dollars

and if you know the cash to do it don't do it well and i'm thinking too like just set up literally a taco stand in the front with no commitment no least nothing prove the concept before you make a commitment that's the idea of the word perfect we do that in relationships and businesses it's never perfect it's never perfect that's a good note to end on all right

i want to thank producer james childs associate producer kelly daniel my co-host dr john deloney and you america this is the ramsay show

[Music] hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm christy wright author of the new book take back your time the guilt-free guide to life balance and i'm joined by my good friend dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five

if you have a question about money if you have a question about relationships maybe need some advice you're at a fork in the road having to make a decision you're not sure which decision is right and just want to bounce your ideas off of someone else we're here triple eight eight two five five two two five and we're gonna kick off this hour by going to orlando florida with holly hey holly how are

you hi i'm great i'm so excited how are you doing today good we're excited to talk to you what's going on good good thank you so much um i i am a single mother i'm 40 years old and i have my little miracle baby two-year-old daughter and i am trying to determine right now whether or not i should sell my home to take advantage of this market

and perhaps move in locally with my mother for a year or two even though i know in my heart that probably is not the smartest move it

might be the best and financial decision

um to help secure my future um and i just wanted your advice you know just kind of wanted to bounce a couple ideas off of you and see why it might make sense and might not yeah well well i'm so glad you called first of all um i'll i'll tell you my my gut response and then i want john to talk about this because i'm sure from

the relationship aspect he is much wiser than me i can only speak from my experience and that is that um if i want to have a relationship with my mother i should not live with her and i

love my mother love her love her living in a different house than me most of all so for me what immediately jumps out to me holly is not just that relationship piece that of course i'm looking at it through the lens of my own relationships but um is that real estate typically only goes up anyway and yes the market is hot right now but you're not going to lose money

if you stay in your house your your your house is secure your house is safe yeah i mean your your real estate goes up typically so my thought my gut is no stay you know especially when you said like i think i know like i think that's not a good idea from the relationship aspect you don't need to you don't need to unless you do i mean is

there is there some financial burden that you didn't mention do you have a lot of debt like what's going on with your other finances that makes you feel like you need to sell it to to have that money yeah um i think the biggest um concern is that i am 40 and i only have

about 60 000 so far in retirement i've

been following the baby steps for the past four years cut up my credit cards i paid off 30 000 plus dollars in credit cards over the past four years and i just paid off a 50 000 student loan in september congrats congratulations that's huge thank you um i went back as kind of a non-traditional student earned my mba in 2015 and went from earning around 40 000 a year to now i make about 86 and change

wow you're amazing you are amazing

thank you so i feel like i'm on a really good upward trajectory however now being

a mother there are daycare expenses additional insurance costs things like that so i'm on baby step two but i only

have about three thousand dollars left of attorney's fees and that was um for a child support related case unfortunately that's still an ongoing battle and kind of a variable um but the other the other so that's kind of where i am i feel like i'm in a decent position but i'm a little bit behind in retirement i am eager and anxious to begin um or to resume the college savings fund for my daughter and to get the three and three to six months of um you know security put in

the bank for us um so yeah that's kind

of weird so holly here's been my experience over the last 24 months tell me if this rings true with you at all okay every single media outlet on the planet

i guess except for this show where everybody seems to have kind of a still pulse is rattling every cage they have they're

banging every pot and every pan and every gong and every drum letting you know that you're not okay you're not safe you're not filling the blank you're not enough you should have been oh my gosh

what you just rattled off to us is that you got three thousand dollars you've been busting it both in your academic life in your professional life in your personal life and then ta-da you got a kid and hey let's figure this out we're gonna keep going you are walking what like as dave talks about the tortoise and the hair you're the turtle you're just getting up every day and you're grinding it out you're working hard and the next day you're working hard next day working hard do you have a math issue when it comes to retirement yeah you're 40.

this is the ramsay show

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ken coleman

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i'm kristy wright john deloney and i are taking your calls today

825-5225 if you have a question about money relationships starting a business life balance anything you want to talk about we are here for you we're going to go to new york city new york with pete hey pete how are you how you guys doing good what's going on

i'm the proud owner of a tesla 3 a 2019

tesla 3 and i've noticed that the trade-in values for used cars and in particular tesla's are very high almost as high as what i bought it for and i did a quick uh

research kelly blue book puts my trade in at around uh 49 000. cost of a new tesla three uh

with zero miles on it obviously is about 57k so i was wondering uh should i go for it i have 20 000 miles on the on the car i

have now or uh realizing that i probably won't always get a chance to lock in on such a high trade in or should i just go old school like my dad would say and just drive it into the ground which is what i had planned to do before these uh trading values went haywire what do you guys think okay so i don't want to answer this question in a vacuum outside the context of the rest of your finances so let's talk about how the rest of your finances are doing do you have any debt

just my mortgage okay and you have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months yep okay cool so i guess the thing that sticks out to me we've got a lot of calls like this and john you jump in on this um the thing that's interesting is people are asking questions should i do this should i sell my house should i trade in my tesla in

this example just because the opportunity is there when really outside of the opportunity or perceived gain you like the car that you have you like the house that you have whatever so i guess is it just purely because you could make some good a good return on it well it's not a good return because i'm actually losing money i'm sorry not a return what i mean is like

the trade the value that you're getting back is more than you would expect to get in this market that's what i mean to say historic historically trade in values for used cars are high and the height is high for tesla threes that i read that that's like the most in demand car maybe i'm wrong but that's just what i read so so you got 20 000 and

then you got 20 000 miles on it yep so you're you're basically paying a 17 dollar is that about right ten thousand dollar what's that what you're gonna turn and go buy another tesla what's the gap it's it's a difference the gap is about nine thousand okay so you're paying if you had a hundred thousand miles on this thing or for a tesla you'd have two or three hundred thousand miles on

it um yep that makes sense it sounds like a lot of headache and you're you're trading nine thousand dollars for for 20 000 miles i mean a 2019 with 20 000 miles in my mind again i drive old cars it feels brand new um no i i agree what about this new tesla so let's let's let's change the the whole math problem here or not the math problem psychology problem what about

this new tesla is more exciting to you than the current one that you have right now honestly like and i think you're kind of getting at like what is the emotional thing driving this if i'm reading your question right and i'm just asking are you good are you excited about the new tesla um you know it's not a whole lot better than the one i have now it's just

you know there's a couple upgrades but but it wouldn't be like a way better car it would be close to parity just just newer uh i guess what i'm really worried about is or not worried but am i going to miss this window where the trade and values are as high as they are and then i'll be kicking myself in five years when i'm trading the car in for

you know fifteen thousand dollars when i said you dummy why didn't you trade it in when when you could have gotten a better deal for it but you're talking about a a two-year difference here man and twenty thousand miles i think i think it's a perception thing yeah i think it's a perceived loss yes it's like this i've gotta jump on this and it's that fear of like what

if i miss out to your point but there's nothing that great about the new car that you want need whatever you like your car and so it's more just it's more the opportunity that seems shiny and i don't think there is a cost to it not just the financial cost but there's also the headache costs and i think it sounds like you and your car you're in a great situation

i don't think it's something you need to do yeah so we we have a there's an incredible book by daniel kahneman called thank you fast thinking slow and one of the things it talks about is we are so hypersensitive to perceived loss even to the point that we will

go after perceived loss at the expense of known gain right so here i the hardest thing for anybody to do right now is to just say i like my house what i i know on paper imaginary

it's worth more nobody's handing me cash yet so it feels like it's worth more or my car or whatever i guess i got to do something now because i have to get this good deal or three years from now i'm gonna be mad i didn't get this great deal not ever asking yourself dude do you like your car and do you like your situation and do you just want to throw nine thousand dollars at a thing that might make

you feel better three or four or five years from now that just seems bonkers yeah i say i mean you're not gonna you're debt free do whatever you want man but if it's me i'm gonna go that's cool yeah i'm glad that my car has got high value i'm gonna keep loving my car and then i'm gonna go about my day yeah yeah and the the thing

i want to highlight is you're in a great position pete the fact that you're even asking this question you've done really well with your finances you're debt-free you're in a great spot but at the same time it doesn't mean we have to do something new just because it's available just because you could get a lot of money for your used car and we again we keep using

this example but we keep getting calls about this should i sell my house because i could get a lot for it it's like well do you want to move no do you need to sell your house no well and our friend kate coleman gets there like hey i just they called me and said would i be interested in this promotion do you want to do that work no no

you want to have those hours no but it pays 30 000 more dollars like think about your life we have this it may never come again or they put me in a position if i don't take this promotion i'm never going to man that's okay the other thing i would add uh pete in your scenario we didn't say this but i want to make sure i say

it the two options you have is not trade in and go to get a good amount um for your car now to have a newer car or drive it into the ground there's like a we could upgrade before you drive into the ground it could just be hey i'm going to drive this for about five years and then your point maybe you trade it in for a little bit less

but by that point you've got so much more savings and you've getting gotten uh great you know great miles out of that car and then you want to get a little bit newer car it doesn't have to be these extremes and when we think in extremes then it makes it feels like it makes the decision so much more emotionally heightened and so much more like oh my gosh

so much on the line you can just you can just do that in like two or three years if you want to but for everybody out there listening wondering should i sell my house or should i sell my car because it's a good moment to do those things that's the wrong question the right question is do you need a new car right do you want to and can

you afford to move into another house and then you look backwards and say okay what's the market for myself my sale here right yeah this is um it doesn't always apply in these scenarios but it makes me think one of the things i've talked about at business boutique last weekend and i've talked about in the context of all of my teaching on life balance which has been such a theme

this fall sometimes we just look at good opportunities and we say should i do that because it's good but a good thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing yeah a good thing at the wrong time will stress you out a good thing at the wrong time well you actually put you in a bad position and so just asking yourself not is this just a good thing is

this the right time for that thing and uh and when you ask yourself that you'll come up with a much better answer whether that's with your finances with your car with your home

with your business don't just ask yourself is this opportunity good is this the right opportunity and is this the right opportunity now and i love how you talked about the even the science behind the perceived loss because that drives so much of our behavior there's a there's an incredible study at where you come into a room and you have 50 one dollar bills and you start laying them down one

after the other and i'm a stranger i sit down and then i call it i say um good you you know you call good i put down three dollars and then if i accept the deal you take 97 i take three and we're out of here and what the research found is if i perceived it to be unfair to it within a certain degree i would say no

and scratch the whole deal rationally speaking i would walk away with three dollars more than when i sat down but unless you put down 55 and i get 45 and

i'll be like okay but if i felt like uh i don't it's this it's this perceived loss that we're so obsessed about and we lose the fact that dude i could just take 10 bucks and go chick-fil-a here and grab some dinner that i didn't have before yeah right so you got a great car you got a great house yes it's it's got some imaginary

money associated with it great are you happy with your life right now yeah don't look for these imaginary losses that haven't happened yet that might happen in future you're going to make yourself crazy in the present that's good that's good this is the ramsay show

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so

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i'm christy wright joining me is my good friend fellow ramsay personality dr john deloney and this is a very special moment because one of our own ramsay solutions team members here in nashville tennessee matt is on the debt free stage hey matt how's it going hey christy hey john how are you it's so exciting this is huge okay so this is really fun for us because you're on our team

and we get to hear your story and so obviously you work here on the team but we're gonna hear the debt-free journey let's start by getting the basics how much debt did you pay off uh eighty thousand one hundred and ten wow and we're not supposed to ask this but i got to know how much money you make i'm just kidding don't answer that just kidding hey don't tell everybody what your role is on

the team though what's your role in the team uh i'm a developer on the b2c uh team cool one of those really smart people that knows how to program things and make things happen for you guys that go to our website and things like that okay how long did this eighty thousand one hundred dollars take you 27 months 22 27 months how long have you been on

the team uh i started may 10th so just under six months oh you're somewhat new yes okay cool okay well then cool so when so when you take us back to 27 months ago this is before you were a team member take us back to that moment and how you got started on this whole journey so i was uh dave ish for probably

not five ten years i mean dave always says that the the hardest baby step was baby step one i don't know i did it i mean five six times at least it's not that hard i just keep doing it yeah i just kept doing it that's right uh but in july 2019

uh i met a girl i thought i was going to get married that did not happen but that event caused me to to really have to reflect and like

what do i want to be true you know when i when i get to this stage of my life the meeting her the breakup uh the meeting her okay like when i met her i was like oh like if i marry this girl like what things do i want to be true you know that weren't true then which is it was a lot you know so the one i decided to tackle first was finances okay um and i decided

um to really just submit to this program i decided i am and not in fact smarter than dave so um when i went i decided you know i tried to do it before and failed so i was like i'm going to get a coordinator so i actually took fpu with a coordinator i was the only one in this class shout out to mike ford he's so awesome and you know like having that the accountability from the coordinator and then the accountability with uh some friends in my family like

those two things really uh really were the difference in the 27 months that's awesome well i'm really impressed that you when you decided to commit to it you did something different in order to have different results like get going through it with the class having a coordinator having having different people around you because a lot of people they will attempt to do something like pay off their debt multiple times

and when they don't it just it kills their confidence that they can because i tried that didn't work tried that didn't work and you're like i didn't try that didn't work i'm gonna do something different so that it does work and you did that which is awesome i didn't ask this but um what kind of debt was it um so it was i owed my parents 1200 from them fixing

my car i owe i had about 10 000 credit card debt uh 20 on a car and the rest was student loans okay so a little bit of everything how old are you matt i am 33.

so this 27 months 80 000 you hit the gas when you turn the corner you said enough's enough's enough what lit that fire um you know i i'm a enneagram one so

like once i got convinced to do it and once i had the accountability and the structures in place you know i just i just hit it and i also should say um

probably the most tactical thing i did though was i really just leaned into god's calling uh for me you know the first was submitting to this program uh and god really blessed that and then i also i had been i'd felt for a long time probably at least a year probably that i should increase my tithe from uh tithing off my net to tithing off my gross income

and i'm not a prosperity guy the only thing that i think god owes me when i read the new testament is a butt kicking so uh but i had felt called to do that for a really long time and i finally did it and i was really really nervous um but those two events together led to my income going up forty seven thousand dollars in six months wow very cool uh just from that's all

and i like i'm good i mean i'm willing to believe i'm good but i'm not that good yeah yeah well there's some there's such a principle in there and it can get into you know people could have opposition saying oh prosperity all that but i have just found again and again and again obedience precedes the blessing and it wasn't about the amount of money necessarily probably it was about

the obedience obedience to the plan and your your words submit obedience to tithing what you're just any whatever it is just doing what god is asking you to do god blesses obedience absolutely and you're just such an example of that okay so matt you have heard the debt-free calls um you know people call in what is the key for you and i know you have an interesting story

because 20 of the months were not on this team six seven of the months were on this team um for for your seat and how you've walked this out what do you think the key was that helped you actually do this uh so i mentioned the the tactical thing uh the biggest strategic thing i think was evaluating the my previous times that i had failed and really just knowing my why

you know ao always says that if your why doesn't

make you cry then the price of commitment will and that for me that was so true um that like i knew why i was making sacrifices i mean the car that i had that on i sold it and the one i replaced it with has had probably three thousand dollars worth of repairs at least like you know one right after the other and but i still kept going because i knew it was worth it though i still had the why of why i had done it so i knew

i didn't like even though i was tempted to just go buy another car on payments i was like no that's not why i sold the other one that's you know i'm getting out of debt it matters yeah well as a member of our team i i don't want this to be lost on the listener or anybody watching this but especially on you look around here man everybody stopped working

they come out here to cheer on the brother and as you've crossed this incredible threshold and you head into whatever's coming next for you i want you to never forget you're not alone in this deal and

it's incredible i i just never minded every day we show up to work here with somebody high five just says good job you've got an army of people here walk doing this crazy life thing together with you and um they got your back for whatever comes next right yeah so good okay who who else in this journey have been your biggest cheerleaders uh so my parents were a big help i uh during covid i ended up staying over there a lot because i was i work remote

i was at the time i was working remote and i mean i would go like days without talking to anybody in person so i ended up over at my parents a lot uh they also have an anxiety written dog that i needed to take care of um so i did that and then my buddy aaron

and his wife sarah are both

they were both my accountability partners i want to be like both of them somehow when i grow up and you know they were really sort of the tactical like hey i really want to buy this and they just said no no like you don't need it no you don't need it i love it well matt you're amazing and the work that you do here at ramsey solutions is what leads to

the life change of so many people that are listening to this show right now and so we're so so grateful you're on the team so grateful for you to share your story and uh and gosh what an amazing hard work that you paid off 80 thousand dollars and 27 months you're you're incredible no you know matt normally when you say we have a copy of the legacy journey

and total money makeover which i think you have access to anything you want here as a product benefit as a team member all right matt matt from nashville tennessee here on our debt-free stage as a member of ramsey solutions paid off eighty thousand one hundred ten dollars in 27 months matt

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free

i love it i love seeing a team in the lobby oh my gosh it's so cool and how cool that the last six months or so as he paid it off was here on our team i mean that's just one of my favorite parts about matt's example is he said i tried a few times i was davish i tried to fail tried failed and then i did something different do something different do something different doing

the same thing over and over again i just yell at my kid all the time and they just keep doing the same thing will you change maybe you guys are listening right now and you've tried this baby steps plan you've tried the dave plan your day ish and it hasn't worked maybe you sign up for a financial peace university class maybe you sign up for ramsey plus maybe

you get an accountability accountability group maybe you put some things in place to help you do the things you say you want to do maybe you do something different this is the ramsey show [Music]

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i'm christy wright dr john delonia are taking your calls answering your questions got a question about relationships money starting a business or the million dollar question how do you balance it all it's one of my favorite ones to answer especially these days we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five answer that question is like 20 bucks you wrote a book on

it didn't you i have a book for you it's like 20 bucks you don't have to cost a million dollars well that's the question that everyone loves to ask everyone loves to talk about and here's the thing everyone has a lot of feelings on this topic of balance they have a lot of feelings on a lot of things totally but despite their hatred of the word can't stop talking about

it you can't stop asking about it so yes someone asked me in an interview recently like yeah you just you just put that on the cover the guilt-free guide who i found so like sure did i'm an enneagram eight i'm just gonna go right into them

i know it's a thing all right let's go to palm beach florida with janice hey janice how are you hi christy i'm good how are you good what's going on well i'd love to ask the question about balance but today i have a different question hey it's free not even a million dollars yeah well you guys are going to think i'm joking um but i found out over

the weekend that my father bought a car for my 12 year old daughter wow planning on unveiling it on christmas as a gift for her and he doesn't know that i know about it and i honestly am really upset and do not know how to approach this with him that so sounds like something my dad would do janice why would he buy seriously why walk me through

this i want john delony to walk us through this together janice yeah should my dad do this potentially first of all can i ask a follow-up how did you find out uh my mom told me okay all right all right oh mom this is your very good friend dr d okay so why why why why did your dad

this isn't the first time he's done this what but why did your dad buy a car for your 12 year old okay so let me give you a little bit of background information i know my dad had this older jeep that belonged to

his dad before he passed away and he recently made about six months ago approached me and said that he wanted to give that jeep to my daughter for you know when she was able to drive and i was i said no we have a plan with that you know we're gonna make sure that she works and saves money and we told her already that we're gonna match

it you know we have a savings account she asks to see it every once in a while to see how much money is in it you know all that sort of stuff and he said well why you know why can't she have the jeep i said well it's really old jeeps aren't super safe and i think from that he heard well it's old and jeeps aren't safe

so let me let me get a different car that's actually that's not what he heard but go ahead i'll tell you what he heard in a second so you know and i told him we have a plan we want to do this for her and um

yes but he totally ignored it which he does say how long has he completely ignored your plan and your boundaries probably for all of your life always yes and so what he heard was oh a boundary that's cute watch me go right through it

i i'm so here for this for this answer janice i am on the edge of my seat i know a friend who might

be curating can i ask you one one more hard question sure what does he contribute to you and

or your daughter financially uh nothing anymore i was a single mom

for the first five years of her life so i did rely on my parents a little bit with some help with day care and insurance expenses okay once i got married my husband and i worked really hard to pay off debt for about three years so i think my family saw us working really hard and didn't quite understand it and thought oh they must not have any money

so i think maybe he still thinks that but as of right now he does not contribute anything gotcha so um we could do this one all day long this is super fun um here's the the way to cut through this is always remember two things secrets

destroy relationships and secrets are weapons for bullies

narcissists um people who are small that are trying to feel bigger and so the approach through this is throw all the lights on and turn all the music off call your dad and say i heard you got my daughter my 12 year old a car

walk me through what you're thinking dad and here's what you're gonna do that is um punching a bully in the nose i'm not gonna let you show up and then put me on blast in front of my 12 year old to make me the bad guy when i tell you to take this gift that you got my 12 year old away and so call it out and say did you do this and let him the the stammer around

and then he'll say you need to save this and i'm just trying to help out in just five years and he's going to weaponize how he's helped you in the past and make you the bad guy because he had to step in and help you and he's always got to step in and help you and blah blah blah and this is where this is going to become important

you laid a boundary down when he said i want to get her the old jeep i want to fix it up and give it to you and you said no we have a plan well now he's calling your bluff on your boundary and we get to see what what you're made of okay this is where you're gonna have to say something hard like if you bring a car to my house i'm gonna have

it towed away or you are not welcome at christmas if you show up to my house with a car for my 12 year old i love this advice so much i want to ask one quick question of janice as as john is giving you this advice janice have you ever had similar hard conversations do you have the habit of calling your dad out on this stuff in

the past yeah probably at least once a year and i did have a follow-up question should i bring my husband in on this conversation with my dad or should i just leave it between us for now uh i i think that six one way half dozen another um i think you talked through the decision with your husband if it's me i'm gonna reach out to my parents christian i've actually disagreed on

this we've had a lot of fun with that on your show um i don't know that that's necessary you can if you want him to call your dad and say hey you're not we have a plan my my your daughter my wife told you that um but i'm stepping in here saying there's not going to be a car brought to my house on christmas period um and i'm have

it towed away i don't know that that's necessary i think if you are as direct as john is telling you to be which is absolutely what it's going to take i think you're dead i don't think you need to invite her i don't i don't see a reason why you need to i say this in love because i've had these exact conversations with my parents i mean it's like

we are so close and because when you have a real close relationship there can be a lack of respect for boundaries that's right and it's like i will be as direct as you i'm like we're not doing that i don't know how else to say it that is not happening if you're willing to be that direct i think you will get through but you can't tiptoe around

this janice like you've gotta you gotta say why did you do this i will tow it away this is not happening and you've gotta be that clear and expensive i can't say are you absolutely crazy well when you do that you are evoking emotion and you're trying to um i'm going to contradict myself here you're trying to hit him back and i just said you're punching a bully in

the nose which is you want to take the absolute most dignified high road here because you're dealing with a child and just say the facts like you always say this just say the fact there's no reason to say are you crazy because it doesn't matter even if he is it doesn't matter it's irrelevant because that car is not coming to your house on christmas and as long as

you cover that this car is not coming to our house on christmas or it's getting taken away by the touch it's going to get towed and that would be embarrassing for you but like as long as you're that clear then you don't have to have any of those slams like those jabs and this part always sounds fun and empowering when you talk to somebody about boundaries and they'll walk away be like yeah i'm gonna make no mistake

this will cost you it will be hard because i know most people who try things like this garbage are immature psychologically and spiritually he'll throw a temper tantrum it will well then i'm not doing anything and he's not going to call you on your birthday it'll be all kind of manipulative nonsense on the back end of this deal that's where your husband and your close community of friends will really be

you know i always say that your friends or your emergency fund for life that's when you're gonna have to lean on folks because you have a father figure who's acting like a four-year-old right

yes and so when you understand the back end of holding your boundaries is going to cost you something whether it's relational whether it is a pity party whether it's actual money um because he's supporting you in some shape form or fashion which he's not anymore then yeah hold your boundaries hold your boundaries firm and um don't look back yeah you got this janice good luck don't let

it manipulate you parents your child your christmas your family your grown-up kids be grown-ups support and love him i feel like we could do a theme hour on boundary stallone i feel like we i feel like this needs more dignity 20 million books maybe for a different day all right i want to thank producer james child associate producer kelly daniel my co-host dr john deloney and you america for listening

this is the ramsay show

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm christy wright author of the new book take back your time the guilt-free guide to life balance and i'm joined today by my good friend dr john deloney host of the dr john deloney show author of

the best-selling book redefining anxiety and we are here for you give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we're taking your calls about money as always but if you wanna talk about relationships you have a relationship question you have a question about time management or work or business or all of it yeah a boss that you just can't handle anything and let's be honest they're all related anyway all related all

the time you don't have a work life and a home life all your different areas of your life affect each other work affects home home effects works your relationships affects your money of you know it goes in all directions and so we'd love to talk to you give you some advice talk through it with you help you see your options triple eight eight two five five two two five john one of

the things that um i think is really fun here as a as a team ramsey solutions and um you know especially in the busy fall season i feel like we're kind of coming to the end of the fall and the busy season we're always planning ahead so i'm curious what are you working on what are you excited about what are you thinking for next year what kind of things

i haven't got to tell you congratulations to being number one bestseller dude thanks that hit the big big old numero uno yeah that's awesome that's fun thank you so i turned in my manuscript for a big book uh when does this come out i know it's not like april april okay and so a little we're we're excited and starting the whole getting ready to get that ball rolling downhill now is

it so does it launch for pre-sale in april in february okay gotcha but it will be a kind of the the flag in this in the sand on how to change your life and man just the the nonsense and the about relationships and mental health and all of it that we've been just sold a bill of goods man and here's how to get it back how was

this process different for you than uh writing redefining anxiety um redefining anxiety was more like a grad school paper i mean for me it was like uh um this was more of something i've been working on for about 10 years and just happened to be here yeah and so yeah um

and there's a team of people that help make sure my i can get a little uh pop off the mouth a little bit and they'll say what does that actually mean and i'll say i don't really know and so there's a refining process here which is great and there's editors here so i the book will be much shorter than what i submitted which is good because i talk too much

but i'm i'm looking forward to it did you know that when i turned in the manuscript for business boutique well let me let me start over when i wrote business boutique our team i was a new author and our team really didn't know if i would have enough words yes we have plenty we could all laugh about that now in hindsight so my instruction was to write until

and i quote the cows come home right until the cows come up just keep right like they were so concerned i wouldn't meet my word count the minimum word count that they needed was uh sixty or seventy thousand words i turned in one hundred and ten thousand yes yes fun fact for those of you guys that have read business boutique uh the reason it is the size that

it is is to spread out all the words to make it physically larger so it wouldn't be a tomb of thickness that's exactly right that's basically what i turned entered in a lot too so yeah yeah so we have a good editing team it's a fun it's a fun process though you write your you know put your heart and soul into that and i know it's going to help a lot of people dave tells

the story about the one of the way back in the day when he was doing just financial peace university that he had written the his first book and it was the it was clear and simple and the woman

who who spoke the words over him that have just stuck in his heart for years finally a finance book i can understand and that was the echo through this whole writing process for me which is finally a mental health

and relationships book that i can actually understand that's right that 99.9 of people can actually pick up and it's not 800 pages and it's not full of

all of this complex neural that stuff's important and i geek out on that what i found is my friends don't and what they do is they just stop reading yeah they give it and this stuff's too important now yeah we're all frazzled and cooked and burned and we've got to make some changes that is such a complex i mean i'm sorry that's such a gift to take complex ideas

and put them in simple language that people can understand um i'm reading a lot of books right now in seminary and the ones that i can actually understand i'm so grateful for versus the people that just try right to sound like smartypants i'm like okay you're super smart now i need a dictionary to look up every other word i get how smart you are could you please explain

it in a way and what i've learned that's how they talk like when they're at the movies and my daughter said something the other day she used a word that was 111 syllables and my wife and i looked at each other's like we're raising nerds and she's like yeah it's because that's what we are john like so it's the way people talk but it's not helpful yeah to

the to most people's time so it's anyway i'm excited to get it out there and congratulations on your books all right let's go to detroit with dawn hey don how are you good in yourselves good what's going on

um i consider myself baby step four

um do you consider yourself or you actually are well i consider myself baby step seven but i am not mathematically there but it's fun to think about it i have all my debt paid i have a six month uh emergency fund

but i have not been able to put 15 percent towards investment because my uh elp we both came to agree and said i was

house poor so i sold the house and moved

into an apartment so i will always have an apartment rent so i want to try to increase my investments because for 26 years they were frozen and in addition i don't know how much to set aside for medical i usually have seven to ten sometimes twelve thousand dollars a year in medical fees okay uh payments so you're just saying from a budget standpoint how to set aside the money for your medical expenses yeah right well i mean it sounds like the good part is it sounds like this is not a huge mystery you've got a range even the range you just gave me seven to twelve thousand i know that's a you know you got some five thousand dollars in a range there but at least gives you something to work with and the good news is that let's say for example you set aside ten thousand dollars and you you budgeted that out as you know whatever roughly you know you wanted to do on a monthly basis and your medical bills next year in 2022 came in at 15 000.

you have an emergency fund for that reason if there were if there's something above and beyond what you expected or anticipated or budgeted for especially when we're talking about medical here that is exactly what that's for so i think you're i think you're in a better position than you might feel like um dawn for for you know having that having that money there do you have a health savings account that you can keep this money in

yes i do now i did not have yeah that's an important vehicle for you because it will it will be there in the years when you only have five thousand dollars and it will it will grow so the years you have the ten thousand dollars or the twelve thousand dollars it will it will roll over year after year which is fantastic what's your health challenges that are ongoing that that at that cost

i have autoimmune connective tissue disease with central nervous system that's painful painful painful huh it at times uh but just recently i'm in

um early stages of heart failure oh i'm

so sorry dawn so sorry we'll be thinking about praying about it um praying for you but yeah just be intentional about those costs and put that money away um and it's hard hard money to put away do it every month put it into hsa and we'll roll over for you and um we'll be praying for you you've done you've done a good job so far don you're doing great this is the ramsey show [Music]

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last 18 months have been a lot a lot of

worry a lot of wondering what would happen next and maybe that's how you feel about your money too tired stuck stretched thin but it doesn't have to be that way you just need a plan because a plan gives you confidence even when everything else seems out of control and that plan is financial peace university this class will teach you everything you need to know to save money pay off debt

and build wealth for the future you can stream the lessons on your own or get the support or get support by going through the class with others then you'll put that plan into practice with the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app by syncing your bank to your budget you can easily track your spending and see where your money goes you get all this only with a ramsey plus

membership you don't have to stay exhausted and overwhelmed you can win with money to start your free trial of ramsay plus text trial to 33789 that's

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all right today's blinds.com question of the day find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsay to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply

today's question comes from trina in california trina says my husband and i have four children ranging in age from seven to fifteen we live in a three-bedroom two-bath home so the kids share two bedrooms and a small bathroom my oldest daughter has anxiety disorder and insomnia so she struggles with having to share a room it's also hard on her siblings to share a room with her she's constantly looking at bigger homes for sale in our town

and when we tell her we're not moving she begs us to let her move in with her best friend or grandparent so she can have a room of her own are we being selfish because we chose a smaller house that we can afford my therapist suggested we consider moving into a bigger house with a 30-year mortgage just to give her that space for the next three years

and then downsize again when she is on her own

so to answer your question here are we being selfish because we are living in a home the size of which we can afford the answer is no good for you um i think we have a culture christie where people have buy caught gigantic cars they can't afford gigantic homes they can't afford so everyone's got a bathroom everyone's got a room and everyone's got a yard everyone's got a pony

and a whatever um so know you're not being selfish if you're living a smaller house that you can afford if you try to if you the reality is you

live in a smaller home and you have a lot of people people are sharing rooms then you have to be hyper intentional about connectivity about roles about how who is not here's the rules of our house but here's why you matter here and kids feel a desperate need for

connection and they feel a desperate need for purpose and if you just plop a 12 year old in a 15 year old's room and say y'all figure it out yeah dude we're not going to figure that out so the easiest thing here is to run is to punt this down the road let's take on another couple hundred thousand dollars in mortgage debt so that we can what i'm telling

you this won't solve the problem yeah right you won't solve the problem you'll have a 15 year old who disappears for three years and then moves out you will not have healed or supported or helped your daughter you may have quieted the chaos for a minute my guess is you won't when kids have anxiety when they've got insomnia when they've got ocd when they've got adhd i always want parents

and this is myself included here understand most of the time your kids bodies aren't broken or disordered those that anxiety that insomnia that is your body saying i'm not safe there's something going on here i'm not okay it's not because there's somebody sharing my room with me most of the time it is something bigger than that so i want to look at those challenges not as things to run from

but as let's get in try to figure out what your body's trying to tell you here yeah and those are hard and those are messy and i'll tell you if your therapist is telling you yeah you know what you should um do put your family at risk in

a situation financially that you can't afford to placate a 15 year old you may

need to get a new therapist right that's a that's a tough situation they put you in what do you think yeah i guess it just for me one of the hardest parts about this it's not just about the house or about the money i totally agree with you obviously you need to live a house you can afford and and figure out what's really going on that's probably not

the room i think one of the hard things and i'm curious your thoughts on this when it comes to parenting and i still consider myself pretty new at this because my oldest is six so i have been in the parenting game for six years i just have three kids under age sex the hard thing is when they have different needs um not just that they're wired different

they have different personalities but they have different needs um it feels unfair to have different

expectations of them like that i would expect of carter that he behaves differently than my middle son conley gotcha not just because their age but because of their capacity right and so how do you handle that where as the mom as the parent as the dad you're going okay i've got four kids one has some things that she struggles with and so and so how do you accommodate that

and make that child feel safe while also not making it quote unquote unfair or whatever with the other kids in the household where it's like okay we don't want to walk on exhales around this child because we don't want to ignore these children and do you see what i'm saying i don't feel great i don't feel like i'm asking anybody perfectly but there's other kids involved in

this equation and how do you help everybody when their needs are different and their struggles are different so the demon of mental health challenges or more specifically the demon of everybody's body reacts differently to things some people respond to chaos by getting really loud some kids respond to chaos by trying to disappear become as small as possible the challenge here is you can't see it and what

i mean by that is my son is 11

and he's humongous i will ask him to go grab uh hey we go grab that thing for me while i'm in the middle of cooking something because he's tall and he can go get that right i won't ask my five-year-old little little girl she's very short i'm not gonna ask her to do that that's beyond her capacity similarly i want all my kids to get in the car

and go to target with me right now even though she's exhausted he's been running a track meet and he played a baseball game and so i i tend to

moralize and and make issues of character things i can't see and so every kid's got different needs and it may be that for a 15 year old who is brain is saying we're not okay right now i can't even go to sleep at night because i'm scared something's not right that tells me there's chaos in that home that tells me there's third rails in that home and that tells me that hey

you know what i really love i love our whole family getting together for dinner that might be the only hour of the day that my 15 year old has time to herself and so for this season i'm going to concede that but you're going to go on a walk with one of us with mom or dad and that means mom or dad we're not going to be able to watch our favorite show every night

and we can so or we have to put our phones down and fill in the blank right um it's about re-examining the entire picture but no i think you're exactly right as a parent i want all my kids to do what i say and the way i say it because i have this picture of going to the hardware store today i just got to know that man she's got to go to sleep right now yeah

and he has asked can i just have some time by myself and i'm not going to do that to him yeah and those sometimes those are issues of character we're all going to store and so when we're going i need you to be respectful most of the time that is something that's exceeding their capacity and as a parent i got to change my picture of what that's going to look like yeah

i think that's so powerful and and something we have to practice on a regular basis you let go of this picture of how you thought it was going to be and one of the things i learned from david thomas who has written multiple books and he i've had him on the christy right show he's so smart but he's he he talks about be okay with letting go of that picture for

this season it doesn't mean forever but maybe in this season we're going to let this child off the hook and they're not going to have family dinners and they're going to eat in their room or eat on their own because they just need some peace and quiet to themselves in this season but see as a parent you think like we're never going to eat as a family again

it becomes these extremes in this season you can let go of your expectations and the way that david thomas said it which i love how he talked about this he said for a better outcome you can force it and everyone's miserable and anxious and not sleeping or you can say okay what what is needed maybe we divide up sometimes matt and i will split up the kids even though

i want everybody together but we'll split them up for a better outcome right saturday you're gonna take two i'm gonna take one or vice versa and i just love that it's it's a hard step to take to say i'm going to let go of what i wanted things to be but if it's for a better outcome then it's amazing because it really is that active love of saying

this is going to lead to better results for everybody yeah so think think this this guide to me if i get to a conversation with my wife and i win and she loses we both lose that's right when i get into a piss and match with my kids and i win and they lose we all lost yeah

and so the goal is how can i even have to make hard decisions hold my kids accountable get them to do things they didn't want to do it's because of this outcome yeah and they've got to know where we're headed here yeah right and i've got to be flexible in that season yeah that's good being willing to let go of that that's good that was a good good question great question

but i'm glad we talked about it because i know a lot of people probably can relate to being in something similar this is the ramsay show [Music]

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listen do not let your valuable time pass you by your time is like your money once it's gone it's gone and if you try to balance it all you can feel overwhelmed and at times you end up pushing your goals and yourself to the sidelines putting your plans on paper is the key to accomplishing anything in life and i've got just the thing to help you do that my 2022 goal planner is

here and here's the thing you need to get these before they sell out because trust me they sell out every single year and by the way they sell out earlier every year people love this planner so much because it really helps you focus on what's important to you your spirit mind body relationships and resources we've got monthly weekly and daily calendar sections that you love but there's also monthly teaching you've got content every single month like reading a book on a particular theme to help

you grow in that area of your life then you've got action plans which are tools and templates to help you put that teaching into practice you've got guided journaling to help you reflect on these things and even month in review so that you're reflecting on the last month before you dive into your goals for the next month it is incredibly strategic to help you stick with your goals

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gold planner today in our online store at ramseysolutions.com and i promise you when they sell out they're gone no we won't reorder i'm sorry they're dated and so once they're gone they're gone if you want to get this as a christmas gift go ahead and get it the feedback has been awesome the reviews are awesome and and people love using them it not only helps you plan your year

it helps you put on paper on purpose what you want your year to look like which is a powerful step and actually making that happen that's ramsay solutions.com you can get your 2022 goal planner today okay let me ask

you this all right i need some help okay

this is me coming clean on the ramsay show this should be good million people this should be good so one of the things i struggle with most in the world on 95 of my days i have a

note card with me that just have here's what i've got to do today i want to make sure i do today well

i had a conversation this weekend i'm working with a new doctor and we went over everything from genetic testing to i mean everything this guy knows me real well and he's like you have a problem with sweets don't you and i was like oh my gosh did you know that right so he knows everything are you reading my mind no he's just reading my dna um i struggle with setting up a plan like

this the day-to-day linking to a series of outcomes that i'm looking forward to um down the road whether it's a month in advance two months in advance four months in advance my philosophy has always been i'm just gonna make sure i work out today and tomorrow takes care of itself yeah and the older i'm getting the more i realize that's not always true it will i'll end up somewhere

but it's often far from where i the picture i had in my head of where i could have been yeah so how this thing i don't know much about journals i've bought a few in the past and they've got like 11 ribbons in them and they're supposed to go this back for this thing sells out whenever they announce it to this to our staff people it's like dave's just throwing cash at people it's like people are screaming like ah it's like a metallica concert

when they announce the the planners are out what is the magic sauce number one that makes this planner so good and number two give me coach me okay forget the first question we all know it's good help me um what would you tell somebody who struggles with connecting the dots long term because the reality is i'm kind of just stumbled through life does that make sense yes yes

i think you're being i think you're being a little either humble or underestimating how much hard work you've actually done that has led to you no i've done a ton of hard work being right here you didn't just wake up here no i've done a ton of hard work but it's all like ah let's have a good tuesday we'll get i need some

a tip or two that's going to help me get from a to b okay here here's to link my daily practices with goals so so let me tell you one of the things that i think is the magic of the planner and and it's not a personality style and it's not so one of the things that many women experience and this one this book this planner is not just for women though it's highly feminine looking

it has hot pink on it so probably most men are not going to buy but it's a great gift for their wife but here's what i think is is magical about it so many women feel this responsibility either spoken or unspoken to be cruise director of the universe they are orchestrating all the pieces of all the people all the time that's a lot to manage so this planner helps

you manage that but here's the power of it it helps you consider yourself in that game it helps you consider yourself in your week it helps you consider yourself in your day like how are you taking care of yourself this week what are you doing towards your goals this week what do you what do you want your week to look like and it's not a selfish message of like ah bulldoze everybody or else

you know it's not that it's just like hey in the grand scheme of the 400 things you've got to do why don't we consider ourselves how can you grow and take care of your mind how can you grow in your faith how can you take care of your body but you know general questions for reflection just the simple practice of pausing and saying hey how do i feel about that or how am

i doing today before i pile on the pressure of my to-do list whether it's in a planner or on a sticky note or a napkin yeah so many people all i think all people do this but i i work with a lot of women so a lot of my my products are directed at women um they wake up they pour the coffee and they just run as hard as

they can then they collapse and they collapse and they they never even consider how am i doing what are my priorities for the day we just react to the world around us and i think that there's something very powerful in getting in the rhythm where you consider yourself in your own life so such a simple concept but we don't do it the reverse engineering of that for

those who are singularly focused on their life is where do you plug into the world around you right if you've got kids at home how are you participating in their life if you have a spouse at home how are you participating in his or her life right how are you making your household um a better place a more hospitable place a safer quieter whatever place yeah right

so it's the opposite of that but it's still the same well and it's there's just certain while balance looks different for everyone and goals look different for everyone and even how you plan if you're a planner on your phone or planner paper everybody's different that's totally fine but there and i write about this in my book but there are certain ingredients to living a balanced life there are certain ingredients that that are good to have in your life regardless of who

you are male or female any personality style doesn't matter what kind of planner you are having time alone having key relationships so even in in the weekly planner of the the 2020 goal blender there's a spot what am i doing for myself this week what am i doing for my family this week and what am i doing for my dream this week your dream could be your career or a project or a hobby or your business

so it's just remembering hey these are things that each week not every day we're not gonna do them all every day but each week hey if i haven't done anything to take care of myself in a week we need to check on that self-care is not a pedicure or a spa day once a year on christmas or your birthday this is like brushing your teeth so daily practice how are

you taking care of yourself on a regular basis and so it's just those reminders what am i grateful for it just gets you in rhythms of of paying attention to these different ingredients that that create a

balanced life it's not all perfect and it's not a formula but man when you have a tool in front of you that just reminds you of what's important to you it helps you actually pay attention to it spend time on it so knowing kristen and not missing because you're telling me i have to be intentional and make choices

i like your napkins or your sticky note system though i think that works great yeah but it provides for a really rudderless life it's fun but as my wife

reminds me there's a whole team of people cleaning up the world behind you john as you just are like ah what if we try this you know what i mean or oh that sounds fun i'm going to the gym it's like well cool i will make sure the kids have food right so it's it's a

it's exactly the opposite of what

some focus on which my life's about everybody else and i am silent and invisible in this life versus the other side of it and again it's a balance of yeah of both having both in your life well i think the key that i think people need to remember is the tools that we create for you all whether that is the every dollar budget every dollar budgeting app or um ramsay plus where you've got your course to take your financial piece university classes or john's book on redefining anxiety or the 2022 goal planner these

are tools to help you be the person you want to be to create the life that you want to lead to help you do what you say you want to do the the tool in itself is not valuable those planners sitting in a warehouse it's not valuable it's when you use that

to do what's important to you to spend your time on what's important to you to think about what do i want this year to look like what do i want this month to look like what do i want my budget to look like how do i want to get out of debt you know the plan is the path for

you to get to where you want to be that's the reason people get out of debt and it works so it's just it's the tool you but you're the one that makes it work uh that means i gotta do it i see what you're saying here this is the ramsay show

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romans 15 4 says for everything that was written in the past was written to teach us so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope romans

15 4.

martin luther king jr said intelligence plus character that is the goal of true

education all right we're going to go to new haven connecticut with miguel hey miguel how are you good thank you how are you great what's going on thank you for taking my call sure so i am about to be 37 years old and uh

i'm finding myself in a pretty overwhelming situation uh i've got about five hundred thousand dollars in debt that has uh accumulated it comes a it's a mix of irs debt uh student loans credit cards and auto loan and uh i'm making eighty 87 000 a year

on my income and about 17.50 a month on disability

uh so i'm finding myself in a situation now where it's all kind of falling on my lap i just put together my very first budget at 36 years old using the every dollar app and i'm coming up short um i'm not really sure where to go from

here so i looked into bankruptcy chapter 7 chapter 13 and i got off the phone with a law agency earlier today they said that i would probably qualify for chapter uh 13

but my income i guess is too high for chapter 7.

so i'm just kind of looking for some guidance looking to see what my best option would be uh where i could get some free advice uh if there's any um see where to go from here yeah i'm so sorry i can hear that in your voice yeah are you are you married have kids overwhelming yeah uh so i have one child

i'm divorced and uh i've been through two separations which have you know they've kind of led me to this situation financially

um so yeah i put that a little bit on my plate well yeah what do you what do you do for a living i am a nurse practitioner okay awesome

so currently i'm in a residency program um and they're only paying 87 000 a year

uh because i'm in a learning phase this is a one-year program after this if i decide to stay at the va

i'll go up to about 110 000

if i decide to go outside of the va i will make more money but in the end i'll lose you know retirement benefits and and you know free health care for life everything that comes with being a federal employee so that's another question whether i should continue to work at the va and bank on those benefits or you know seek employment elsewhere and try to make as much money as fast as i can so what i would tell you is um you're drowning right and you know that right

yes um here's here's the analogy and it might not be perfect but the analogy you just gave me is i want to stay in the water because i've got this life raft here versus i'm going to start swimming to shore and i'm going to get out of the water completely and what feels safe long term eventually

if you will

may ultimately sink you because you're you don't have enough money here this makes me happy that you're in a one-year program okay because you're going to at least double your salary and absolutely you're going to get out of the va and go out to the open market and work and you're going to be able to be being a nurse practitioner man you're gonna be able to make a great salary

and you're gonna have to just start slowly grinding this thing away and you feel like you're 100 years old you're not you're absolutely not um what uh you said you got disability what's your disability from are you a veteran i am okay from my time overseas awesome

um so you've got disability on top of your 87 uh correct yes okay so total growth income is 108.

okay all right great so the chances of you coming out of here and getting 160 or 170 what's that what's what's the feasibility in your market um i mean if i were to take travel

contracts like a local tenant position yep i can probably get that there would be you know multiple short-term contracts which i've done as an rn uh to make ends meet you know with the covet crisis there you go bill um i'd probably do the same thing as a nurse practitioner so what i want you to step back and look and say okay 37 i'm going to be 38 when i'm out of this program here if i put myself on a four and a half or five year plan and i worked backwards

what kind of contracts would i have to take over the four and a half to five years and will you be tired abso freaking you're gonna be exhausted but what would it look like to pay this debt off settle some of this with the irs if you can settle some of this with your credit card company if you can you can't settle those student loans you're those are just weights you're going to have to tread water with what would

it look like what would i have to earn to be able to reverse engineer this and my guess is at 150 160 175 000

this becomes a lot more surmountable

with if you've got a plan you're experiencing christine's beginning of this you're experiencing miguel with so many folks and whether it's 500 000 or 50 000 is that initial shock when you see a budget and you think oh no this is forever and i want you to know it's not

but it's a matter of these baby steps as you walk and walk and walk and you've got a pacifier with the feds and you're gonna have to let that go and you're gonna have to work like you thought you were busy when you were younger in the ser you're gonna have to work like you haven't worked but man at that salary at that level you've got a big shovel you'll be able to dig out of

this quicker than you think and just and the key to this is while while you're making good money and you've put in the work to do this residency and all those things it's going to be really tempting to be like well i deserve xyz you've got to live on

nothing the the more you live on nothing rice and beans means the rice i mean you get creative with every possible thing that you can to keep your expenses to an absolute minimum for a season the more you can live on nothing and get that income up like we're talking about the faster you're out of debt and so you absolutely can do this and one of the things that um

i want to make sure that we give you miguel if you'll stay on the line i'll have kevin kelly give you a membership a year membership to ramsey plus which it has our class in there called financial peace university and you watch these lessons and here's what's gonna be so key it's not only going to show you how to get out of debt it's going to keep

you motivated on the journey there's an incredible community in there as well and you can connect with those people you can get inspiration get encouragement get teaching you'll also have that budgeting app that we're talking about which will sync with your bank so watch those lessons and do exactly like john said we've got to get the income up to be able to get out of this mess

but you can do it and once you can see the plan then you'll see how you can do it so can i tell you this miguel we just had a couple in a previous hour on today's show do a debt-free screen and they paid off 500 thousand dollars

oh man what they say they got they got after it they got after it in in five years yes and right after he was diagnosed he was diagnosed with um with a parkinson's parkinson's and so i'm gonna tell you i just had somebody stand in front of us on the debt-free stage and they did it okay

here's another thing i want you to remember um tell me about your little one uh she's nine years old nine years old dan she loves to sing that's awesome so listen to me this stops with you because in five years how you said she's nine years old she's nine yeah nine years old right in five years she's gonna be 14.

and she's gonna have a debt-free dad who walks about seven inches taller than he is right now and she's gonna skip to have a ringside seat to sacrifice to hard work to hey we

don't have the money to go to disneyland so we're going camping we're gonna sorry we're going fishing we're gonna figure this stuff out we're going to hang out with uncle so-and-so and aunt so-and-so and they live in this crazy town and she's going to have a ringside seat to adventure and sacrifice and she's going to get to watch her family tree change while she's in it and it's

because your sacrifice is not going to go unnoticed so brother you're about to change your family tree and your daughter's never going to experience this and your why goes way past this scary moment right now your legacy her legacy and her kids legacy brother so congratulations and you call us back when you're debt-free and you're gonna do that debt-free scream on this stage absolutely with us and we're gonna celebrate

you because you're gonna do it and i can't wait to watch you do it gonna be awesome thanks for calling miguel all right i want to thank producer james child associate producer kelly daniel my co-host dr john deloney and you america for listing in this has been fun this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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you

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## 213. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 26, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:26:46 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm ramsey personality george campbell host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by none other than dr john deloney best-selling author host of the aptly named dr john deloney show and we're excited to take your calls america it's a free call today

and every day triple eight eight two five five two two five we can talk about money relationships emotional wellness mental health most of that i'm going to delegate to john no i want to watch you answer this question john you want to watch the world burn man come on that would make me happy well uh i'll answer mutual fun questions and you answer relationships and you know what that is that creates mutual fun all right

i wish if there was a band he'd do the little drone we just sell out there we only had 11 listeners and we just lost half of them we just lost they're like you know we're leaving well for those that are still with us we are so glad you're here and we have a really a a lobby crowd that i think is electric today the lobby crowd is riveting

i wish

you could be here to see in america the building's on fire come visit us there they are if you're watching uh you can see them they're waving nicely at the cameras so we're taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five and we're going to kick this hour off with dave in lansing michigan dave welcome to the ramsay show i thank you i appreciate you taking my call in a nutshell my mother is 98 years old

just recently her health decline is declining rapidly so we put her into assisted living which is about eight thousand dollars a month now she has approximately a hundred sixty thousand dollars cash in a bank

and she has just over a million dollars of investments nothing crazy uh being it from the generation that she's at so it's just stocks and bonds now would it be better to to run out the money from the bank first

or take the money from the stock market or from her investment with the fear that the stock market might crash or go down significantly that's a great question dave and it does uh bring me some joy that she has done well financially i mean usually you get these kinds of calls john and they're like we have zero dollars in the bank she's broke but she's in a good spot and so i wouldn't worry about this the stock market crashing but i would say she's 98.

you know i guess that's the style of living that she uh was hoping to have at this time in her life yeah she got a million dollars in the bank i mean in investments in the bank so yeah she's earned that to write out that that last time there um yeah i'm fully on board with george there man i i'm thinking if it's me

i i think i would i are you is the will all done so this money that's in her savings would be dispersed on when she passes and and everyone knows where it's going okay yeah all of a sudden yes

yeah i think i was an interesting thing she she's never had a financial planner you know there's somebody at the bank that said yep we'll help you along and they obviously have done well but you know they lived uh very prudent they uh didn't have boats and uh cottages so yeah that's that's that's that's the joke here internally that dave says all the time is i'm not telling anybody anything my grandmother didn't tell me right that's how

they lived they had this awesome thing called common sense and another awesome thing called math that they could do and they continue to do it right you end up with a million bucks in the bank i would probably start with a cash just for ease um until you can sit on the financial planner and begin to see which one of these things you could liquidate um and in what order is

there any um

any of this stuff have to be withdrawn

that i don't you know this is first retirement okay and you're saying there is no financial planner in the picture currently there's no advisor no i would i would work with one to make sure that we make the best use of this money for the remainder of her life i mean right now you'd be okay with a million dollars and we're talking under 100k a year all in for her care it would take i mean she'd have to live another 10 years to get close to draining the investment account which i mean there's she could live to 108.

let that be the light on the hill for everybody have a million dollars in investments and 150 000 in cash so that when your time comes which it will your kids are wondering what's the best most strategic way we can do this not how are we going to do this that's a very different conversation totally different conversation i love it no stress there well john uh before

we head to this break you are uh you're crushing the dr john deloney show i've been tuning in and the way you've been handling these calls especially in some of the people's darkest moments it is it's inspiring i'm glad you're on the team for those that don't know what the show is what are you doing day in and day out that's different from the ramsay show uh

we are man we are taking calls

not not around money we're taking calls around um the calls we took today that we recorded today was um just found out my husband's cheating on me i don't know the next steps and just found out that my mother's gonna be passing away and how do i tell my kids and it's everything from parenting to relationships to my kid just got this mental health diagnosis at school

and we love him but we're tired of all these programs so what do we do next and so it is sitting with people when they feel like the wheels are falling off and then we just walk through it man we have a lot of fun we laugh james and kelly are a lot more joyful on that show than they are on this one and man it's a great time together well i'm glad you're on

the team taking those calls and it's it must be an honor to be the first person they think to calls i'm gonna call doctor john and get his thoughts on that's a pretty cool place man that's cool well we're happy to help here today give us a call triple eight eight two five five this is the ramsay show

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life is full of firsts

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as the first and longest serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verse

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm george campbell ramsay personality joined today by dr john dolone we're taking your calls on money on life relationships emotional wellness you name it we'll give it a shot so we are here for you america and on the line right now we've got leia in sacramento california leah welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call absolutely how can john

and i help so my husband and i have a piece of property up in northern california near tahoe we're listing the property for just over three hundred thousand um it's actually two parcels a larger one of about an acre and a smaller one about half an acre we just got an offer from

um like a branch of i guess the county offering to put batteries on the smaller parcel and to lease the parcel for the next 15 or 30

years for about 30 000 a year if it's 15

years we get 450 000 over the next 15 um

if not we get 900 000 over the next 30.

um we'd still be able to sell the larger portion but we're kind of concerned about trying to sell the smaller portion after 15 or 30 years if we do accept that um so i just i don't really know if we should just continue to list it as one piece and try to sell it and get kind of the lump sum right now or look at this option to lease the smaller course the smaller parcel out and get the 30 000 over the next 15 or

30 years depending on the contract okay why are you concerned about your ability to sell in the future um it's i mean it's bear land um it's near tahoe

um which is great but there's a river that goes through it and you can't build a certain i guess proximity to the river and then you also can't build a certain proximity to the road so it just kind of makes it a little bit more difficult i guess it's been on the market for about a year but we've had it for a few years just trying to clean up

the property and clean up the the title on the property and things like that so when it comes to bear land i'm always kind of concerned about the difficulty when it comes to selling do you guys owe on this no we're we're in baby step seven we don't know on anything fantastic well that yeah that puts you in a different spot where you now have options what is your household income um

we make about 150 or 150 000 years

okay and other than that what are your next goals i mean do you guys want to get into real estate investing because in baby step 7 you've got lots of options there to build wealth to give to do some things are you guys wanting to be in the investment real estate business long term um yeah that's the plan i'm a licensed marriage and family therapist right now

and i do a lot of crisis work on the weekends and my husband is in real estate so i'm looking to kind of leave the crisis work when my kids are a little bit older and kind of start helping my husband more on the real estate side um so that is the plan ultimately maybe in the next couple years um so he started with this piece of property

and um so what i would what i would tell you is if i could if i could secure a lease

for what are we talking i mean we're talking almost 9x over 30 years your return um i would

sign that today and sell the bigger piece

again this doesn't bear out over time but a philosophy that i live by that i was given by a guy when i was younger is

i invest in dirt because they stopped making that a long time ago now you can buy stupid plots of raw land in the middle of southern utah i mean that are useless um having a half acre plot or an acre plot next to lake tahoe even with the restrictions i can't imagine you're not able to unload this even if you sell it at a reduced cost in 30 years

you still have made a million dollars 10x what you were going to sell it for right okay yeah and so the beauty of your situation now is you've got an acre to sell that you can hold cash on and you've got a long-term lease on dirt that you're still going to own in the into the future so it to me it feels like it's not you can't lose either way

okay yeah the way the way i'm thinking about this is based on whatever your next goal is which it sounds like you're wanting to step away from the workforce maybe uh for for what you're doing right now and to me you don't need that 300 000 today there's no fire to put out with selling it today getting 300 grand so i like the idea of locking it in for 30 years

and making almost a million dollars i mean you can just invest that money if you want and that becomes a whole new nest egg for you guys in 30 years from now that's incredible so because you're on baby step 7 if you were like hey we've got a pile of debt over here we've got to clean up i might say hey let's sell that thing get rid of

this debt and we can restart on real estate investing down the line but because of where you guys are at you have options and that's the beauty of baby step seven you guys have done really well thank you way to go thank you so much for the call awesome all right we're going to zach in dallas texas zach welcome to the ramsay show hey george and thank

you for pronouncing my name right i actually thought you were going to misspell it yeah z-e-c-h kelly's a great help i will say that how you doing doing pretty good i'm wondering if you and dr john have some tips on how i can

help kind of coach my sister-in-law through the college application process without scaring her stressing her out with all the things that go with it what what has put you in this coach role are you just wanting to help her she asks for it

part of the question if you have a tip on this i want to ask her if she will help me with it and talk to her mom about it as well but it's also because like i'm pretty much the only ramsay follower in the family and i know like i've watched broad future i watched your fine print episode on the student loan crap and i don't want to see her go through that

i want to see her succeed on what she wants to do because she's a very talented girl she wants to go into performing arts and stuff and she's filling out some process some applications and stuff but i'm trying to figure out how to like talk to her about some of this stuff like the dangers of loans and stuff and how to avoid those

yeah go through the process but so here's part of the reason i'm asking for help i'm i'm a little too practical and i don't know how to just if i go into this blind i'm gonna say something that's gonna scare her out of listening yes so here's an important thing i want you to hang on to and i want you to wrap your heart up in this okay

you cannot make her do anything you cannot coach somebody that doesn't want to be coached you can only reach out and say i would love to help if you're willing to accept it or i'd love to go to take you to coffee and talk to you about the student loan i've talked about how to apply to colleges but you're inserting yourself into a process you haven't been asked to enter

and that usually ends up in messed up relationships and so you're asking for an invitation to a party you weren't invited to and i think your heart is good and i'm glad you're asking for that invitation i say go for it but don't approach it with

hey y'all aren't that smart and i just watched a documentary and i'm going to teach you all about that i've had my friends who are vegans do that to me i've had my friends who are filling the blank they watch a documentary and they call and uh hey we need to go talk about this and it usually ends up in oh my gosh so

it's best to say hey i would love to reach out to you and i'd love to uh if you'd be interested in this conversation what we're going to do is hang on the line here we're going to send you a copy of anthony o'neil's debt free degree that i'm going to send it to you for free and you can give that to her and you can say hey

i got a gift for you i would love to sit down and talk to you about how to apply for college how student loans work and see if we can come up with a solution there i want you to not just have a lot of info about how much student loans suck i want you to have some info on how to actually apply for college how to get scholarships how

to take two years of free community college if that works in your state and then how do you transfer that on and on and on and on go with some information and some data and not just a fired up spirit yeah and i think even getting her to maybe watch the bard future documentary with you hey friday night hey you want to hang out let's catch up i've got

this great documentary if you want to watch it with me that could open up the conversation to where maybe she's starting to ask some questions and that's when you can step in but the the phrasing of it it felt like hey she needs some coaching it's like john's coming into me and saying george i'm going to be a personal trainer and i was like john i didn't know

i was overweight need to get fit well this now it's a personal attack well i mean let's let's be honest who are you going to trust america when it comes to fitness me or john but hey that's actually a great a great a great thought is when you walk up to someone you look at them and you're like you need to get in the gym i got a workout praying for

you i mean no one's gonna listen to you after that i'm immediately upset that's right if you knock on somebody's door and say hey i just have my life changed and i'd love to share it with you are you interested then you might get an audience that's a different spirit but i love the heart behind it zach we're rooting for you as you coach her through this college process to get her to avoid student loan debt

this is the ramsay show

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if you aren't strapped with student loan payments odds are you know someone who is millions of people are putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck or even worse they're waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness what a joke our team has produced a brand new documentary feature film called borrowed future

and it is out now it uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you you'll see dave ramsey and dr john deloney weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program along with featured interviews from other industry insiders and thought leaders like seth godin and seth fratman we're coming at this issue hard people we're taking big swings at

the student loan problem with the goal to arm parents and students across the country with the truth that you do not have to take out loans to get a college education you can graduate debt free and avoid the predatory student loan industry borrowed future is available to watch now and you can find it on apple tv amazon prime video google play or at

borrowed future dot com dude i'm excited about this man so pumped the feedback has been yeah it's burning through man incredible we are giving this away to teachers i want to let america know that i didn't know that if you are a teacher or if you are a youth pastor you've got you are leading teens in your life we want to show this uh for free so

you can access this go to bardfuture.com you can scroll down and click on the link if you are a teacher or in that in that realm where you are trying to influence the next generation which is a difficult task and so to have an 88-minute documentary you can push play on that says it for you yeah that is a game changer so i'm real excited and you did a great job in

this john really unpacking what you've seen because you've been in the education world for a long long time and i love it you you loved it so much you left well i mean i i do i believe in it and i love it um and i think it's important for our country i think it's important for individuals and there's got to be another way got to be

another way man yeah it's not the only path we got to reimagine doing different student loans aren't the only path college isn't the only path and we are we're very pro-education yeah we always have to caveat we love education but you got to do it the right way and you don't want to leave college with a hundred thousand fifty thousand dollars in student loan debt wondering wait

i thought this was supposed to set me up for adulthood no i was there man we had six figures and i remember pacing my house at night my wife was asleep wondering what we're gonna do and i was still in school so they were i mean it was like the meter was still running you know what i mean and i didn't i mean i that's one of

the most desperate feelings of my life not having enough money to pay my bills the meter's running i'm just racking them up because i'm halfway through a program and i don't know how we're gonna do this like i just don't know how we're gonna figure it out and so yeah it's there's i i love it i'm all in on college and

universities and we gotta do it a different way yep it's hard man check it out borrowed future.com or apple tv amazon prime video and google play all

right open phone lines this hour the number to call is triple eight eight two five five two two five bob joins us in new brunswick new jersey bob welcome to the ramsay show hey thanks for having me guys i appreciate it absolutely thank you

well um i turned 62 years old this year and that means that i could potentially well i will have access to my self-employment pension so you talk about education i am an educator i teach boating education as in uh drive a boat

on the water very cool and um how long have you done that for bob i've been doing it for a good part of 12 13 years now very cool

man prior to that i was self-employed as a

mobile disc jockey weddings banquet parties all that good stuff and prior to that worked out a pharmaceutical company realized that i didn't really want to work in corporate america but anyway well the first time i took my boat out i recognized in short order i probably should have had some classes on how to even do what i'm doing he needed you bob where were you bob i'm glad

there are people like you out in the world keeping the water safe from people like me so what's up man i i do i do my best at it i really do and and and and on top of that i really really enjoy what i do so i'm really blessed and uh so so the challenges that i have noticed i didn't say problems the challenges that i have are all

first world challenges um i do have debt and i have money to pay it off i'm just looking for some common sense uh advice here on how to go about

doing that now again emergency fund you know taking care of uh you know plenty of money in the set between you know between uh my wife's 403 b and my set

where we have plenty uh plenty that you know to cover these uh debts however um you know i just want to throw these things at you we have a mortgage we put solar on top of our house so and i purchased that as opposed to leasing it do you have a car loan and uh and my son

has a loan that uh i want to get some advice on uh that he's working towards

becoming a commercial pilot so um you know the loan rates could be a little better and i think with my credit rating i might be able to do well too so talk to me on what would be the best uh best way you

know to pay these off so bob you said you have a car loan for your own personal debt you've got the mortgage your personal mortgage and a car loan that's it for you uh the solar loan as well oh i thought you said you purchased it outright oh you took a loan out yes okay okay well again purchase as opposed to leafs oh okay all right so you've got the solder like the solar renewable energy credits in new jersey they're very uh forward-thinking and uh for each uh s-rack i'm i'm getting 220 put right

into my bank account so okay all right so here's what we teach is the baby steps of course the debt snowball and you said you already have an emergency fund and you have the cash to pay for it is this cash in the retirement accounts or is it liquid innocent yes it is you don't have the money in a savings account in cash to pay for it you would have to dip into those retirement funds at this point that is correct okay what's the car loan how much on that uh it's 23 000.

solar is 43 000.

that's going to take a while to to roi on even at 200 well because i have an electric vehicle um that actually has taken it down to uh

according to my calculations if i included that without the electric vehicle charging uh my my payback is 7.67

years is that what the sales person told you or is that with the no no no when you include the gas tank i did take the 30 federal tax credit okay all right so the car loan is gonna go first bob so that's what we have to tackle first i don't know what the car is worth uh is it worth more than 23

yeah it's a it's yeah it's a uh it's a 2020 tesla okay oh

yeah so it's it's roughly worth uh i paid i paid 50 000 for it so i'm gonna say it's probably 45 000 now okay well if you want to do it the ramsey way you're going to have to line these up from smallest to largest if i'm you i'm right now bob truthfully i'm probably selling the

tesla well uh household income is it

varies because of because of my business but it's uh generally between 150 and 200. okay so i i mean you can hang on to the car there you got 20 left on it

23 23. so we got about 66 total in debt

that is non-mortgage bob from what i'm hearing and with your income could you not pay this off in the next eight months yeah you should be done in less than a year pay that off the car pay off everything and do it with your income that makes the most sense that's you know i could i could definitely do that so i would love to see you and your wife just buckle down for 10 months

and pay off the solar and pay off your car and then knock out this mortgage how much you get left under mortgage uh it's uh 60k oh bob what do you mean

bob you could be done with this whole thing in a year done max two years then you're what 64.

and then you're doing some assaults out in the street with no shirt on because you don't want anybody any money and then you could be like you know what no i don't work on wednesdays just because i don't want to how much you have in retirement accounts uh well that's like i said that i we have first world problems two and a half million dollars oh my gosh bob i'm get i retract this entire phone call yeah let's go back to square one bob in fact this is normally a free call

yeah no you're killing it dude you're crushing it i wouldn't touch the retirement bob you can cashflow this whole thing and let that retirement grow and not unplug it quite yet absolutely yeah pay the stuff off before the year is over and stop watching bob stop touching debt get away from it no more debt no more loans no more anything you can do this man you got this you're a baby steps millionaire we just gotta follow the plan to a t to do it the right way this is the ramsay show

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i'm george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast my co-host today dr john dolone best-selling author of redefining anxiety and host of the dr john dolone show we're taking your calls on pretty much everything money life relationships mental health give us a call triple 825-5225

the number marie joins us in cincinnati ohio marie welcome to the ramsay show

thank you so much absolutely how can john and i help well um i purchased the house six years

ago for 27 000 i worked on it which i've always loved to do and i recently sold it for uh well

actually filled it for 237 and then after commission and tithe and giving to my church um i have

a hundred and eighty eight thousand way to go congratulations marie how did you do that how many how much did you put into it in repairs well i did a lot of the work um well sadly i my husband passed away january 31st so we were doing it together um he's with the lord jesus it isn't easy but it is it is um hope that you

know we will see each other so we did it together and then um

he got sick and then i just i've always known how to have tool time and i've always known how to do things um so we bought it for 27 000 when the market was not so

hot um and we we put in like the things that we couldn't repair like the roof and the electric and the plumbing we put in about thirty thousand um and so that's how we did it wow wow number one so we're so sorry for your loss sounds like your husband was an incredible guy huh he he really was it it's um

it was difficult really really difficult

um but you know it's it would be harder without

jesus so um you know it's it's been hard it's easier now but i mean it's only been since january oh yeah and it's okay for it to stay hard for a long long time yeah we're together for a while and he sounds like he was a great guy and man i'm so sorry for your loss and

on the other side congratulations for seeing this project through and finishing it and wow 188 000 cleared

wow so what's your whole financial picture marie are you okay financially obviously you've got a big pile of money here do you have a primary residence that you're currently living in well i'm actually

when i sold my house like two weeks ago uh so let's say two and a half weeks ago i moved in with my sister who's down the street we're super close it's just uh she and i together and um so my expenses went from you know

no um homeowners insurance or any of those things to my monthly expenses or like 300

i don't have a car payment i don't have credit card debt i don't have a school loan i just have my monthly expenses i can live on nothing because that's just the way we were raised my parents my parents were immigrants from santiago chile and they taught us how to live with little and make money in this beautiful america so we did what a legacy it's awesome that's awesome

so now you're sitting here you've got no debt and you've got a pile of cash and you're not looking to buy a house anytime soon because you're living with your sister and you've got a great situation there right because the long-term goal is to

my i'm gonna help my sister get her house ready and then we're gonna sell her house and then we want to buy land but it's just the mar i just don't know what to do with the money now because i'm not going to be doing that for another year and a half okay i don't want it sitting in the bank doing nothing sure so it's still a pretty short time horizon

if you're talking about a year you know 18 months from now so i wouldn't go you know throwing it into the stock market because of the volatility from you know from now to 18 months from now you could lose money so i get that you don't you don't want to putting in a bank and it's not going to grow by much you know in a money market account or a good high yield savings account you're probably looking at about a half a percent

and so it's not super exciting to see that money grow at such a slow pace but right now what i want to do is protect this money more than i do more than i want to see it grow astronomically because of the short time horizon now if you said hey five years from now i want to do this i would say all right let's put in some good mutual funds

and watch this thing grow for five years so a high yield savings account would be your best bet right now for that 188 000 as you figure out what those next steps are uh and make sure you have an emergency fund in place do you currently have three to six months of expenses i know you don't have a lot of expenses i don't i just have that's all

i have is 188 000 to your name okay so i'm gonna take six months of expenses which for you that might be really low um but you can park that in a savings account and don't touch that that's just for emergency situations that are unexpected urgent and necessary so maybe fifteen twenty thousand dollars you put in a savings account yeah or in a checking account when you're

when your transmission falls out of your car it will be annoying not

catastrophic no stress got it got it do

you have anything in retirement do you have a nest egg that you've been growing i don't i um i never worked corporate i raised my sons you know as a stay-at-home mom and then when my sons became men and they didn't need me which was great um

i kind of went back to my love which is i i'm an artist i just take vintage things take them apart and put them back together as julie and things like that so my income has never been good and so i've never had a retirement did your husband leave you with any retirement from his his professional career nothing okay no and how old are you

i'm 54.

yeah you may want to consider not may i

strongly recommend you you sit down with a xander representative and walk through what it would look like to get some health insurance over the next five 10 15 20 years were you able to cash flow your husband's illness

no you know the illness um

he was a he was an amazing person but he and he did construction as his career okay but

he he died um [Music] it's kind of embarrassing even though he's not here he died of alcohol abuse okay okay and um and so

with that said you know he had his good days and his bad days um and so he didn't leave anything he didn't do anything as far as

savings or thinking of the future that was always my job that was always like put money aside or go get the

regular job or go do the shows that i would do it was never on his radar so marie here's what i want to do we're going to give you um a year's subscription to ramsey plus and i want you to sit with your sister and i want together i want you all to go through every one of these lessons together everything from a thousand dollar emergency fund paying off your debts which all have already done to baby step three

and four and building an emergency fund and then talking about insurance talking about investing and it's gonna lay it all out there for you and i want you all to do this together because you're going to need somebody to walk alongside you and she's going to need someone to walk alongside her because you're going to be learning this stuff for the first time in your 50s and it's going to alter your dream i'm telling

you right now it's going to alter your dream but it's gonna be right

and it might be for the first time in 50 years that you sleep all night okay the first time you think about the future and your heart doesn't start racing on you okay yeah okay okay does

that sound good it does it's pretty cool huh to sleep yeah yeah not worry if we get sick we're gonna be bankrupt right yeah and that's

why i called because i you know this is a lot of money but it's all i have that's right so it's a lot of money and it's not a lot of money all the same time and marie one more step for you i want you to go to ramseysolutions.com click on trusted pros i want you to get in touch with one of our smart vester pros to teach

you what you need to do with this money when it comes to investing i think this is now your retirement nest egg this is not land fund yeah so that's what you need to do appreciate the call we're rooting for you that puts this hour of the ramsay show in the books our thanks to james child's producer kelly daniel and austin screen of the phones back there

and you america and of course dr john doloni we'll be back with you before you know it this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money and your mental health and your relationships and boundaries and all of the things that concern you and alien i'm george campbell ramsey personality joined today by the wheezing doctor john delaney concern you and ale yes

i'm like a 1920s uh keeper john welcome to the 21st century i'd like to introduce you to a microphone i think we need to get back to the old times in some ways our language the kids these days my wife reminds me regularly that she believes i was born in the wrong century but i don't think i've ever said well honey what ails you today

jesus oh we're having a good time give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five john would love to take your call instead of listening to me but it is it is what it is what ails you give us a shout what else yeah we'll talk money life and uh jeff was brave enough to call in all the way from phoenix arizona jeff welcome to

the ramsay show hi gentlemen how are you doing we are doing great what ails you today how can we help i'm just kind of torn in between uh

buying a piece of property uh probably be a retirement property it's about sixty thousand dollars just for the dirt so i'm trying to figure out if it's really kind of the right thing to do the right decision um you know i've got a i don't have any i don't have any bills i don't have a mortgage i don't have any uh student debt you know cars are paid off house is worth about the house is worth about 5.75 i've got a rental property that i would probably sell that's worth about about 250.

i've got about 35 000 liquid um you know what was the liquid amount of stuff 35 000.

yes but you would keep the primary residence and use this as a secondary property for yourself probably not okay because you said you were going to sell the rentals yeah the rental we would sell gotcha okay yeah i mean with that kind of money you you've got the cash either way if you sell one of these properties right

yes how are you if i don't how old are you jeff i'm i'll be 62 in december yeah so

what what's your timetable for building this house your dream home and and settling in uh probably two to three years okay i mean i mean yeah you're debt-free you've got a retirement um you don't have a ton of money in retirement but you've i mean you're a millionaire you've got a million bucks in assets out there and cash and if you want to sell the house right now

the market's hot and hang on to that cash and buy dirt in your dream community uh i mean that's what i would do if i'm being honest with you that's what i would do and you're still working jeff yes what's your household income

about 110.

all right well you've done really well um aside from the the retirement account which i think like john's saying if you sold that primary residence and kind of used that as part of the nest egg and started investing some of that or just sell the rental and cash flow the the property could you do that

if you just sold the rental and cash flowed the rest uh yeah we probably could i mean i like that plan because it sets you up for retirement i just don't want you to sink a whole bunch of money into this property and you've got nothing in retirement as you try to settle into retirement right right i think that the property i think my my first plan would be to um invest in

this this property this dirt and you know if i needed to sell it then i could sell it and probably make some money off of it sure but you know because the the price of the the uh the dirt around it is significantly higher than what i would be offering would be buying the other property from one thing i would check on that is make sure it's been perked

and all that it may be a reason why it's it's 33 less expensive

than the dirt around it yeah dude i don't have any problem with that if you want to if that's where you all want to end up you've worked really hard you're a millionaire you're you're pretty close just don't leverage yourself on this decision yeah you do this thing in cash man you got this way to go all right amir joins us in toronto canada amir welcome to the ramsey show hi how are you we're doing great how can we help i'm just calling regarding a question in a way it's two-parter but i'm currently

in university i'm 20 years old in my

third year and over the past year and a half almost two years i've been back at home because it's called it and my classes and everything have been online but next term starting january my classes uh will be in person and all

five courses that i'm planning on taking will be in person and i'm just trying to decide if it would be financially better for me to move to my the other city where my university is or to continue to stay at home what's the commute like right now uh it's it's a drive and it's about an hour and a half to two hours whoa and you're there like five days a week

i don't exactly know my schedule but i think it would be somewhere around three or five days can you cash flow the campus living you won't take on any debt can you do that uh yes yes i can i have uh savings and

i have the money for it it's just it's a high cost and i'm and the sort of degree or career that i'm pursuing is extremely expensive so i'm trying to save and budget as much as i can so here's what i'll tell you if you have the cash the research tells me that students who live on campus

have higher academic they do better on a host of metrics now that's not universal that's just that's taking an average of the students who live on campus versus those who commute there's something about meeting classmates you all start businesses together you form relationships together you learn how to do this you learn how to talk to your boss in the future all kinds of data that suggests if

you live on campus there's some some significant benefits i'll also say if you have to borrow to do that it is absolutely not worth it because there's also psychology of debt challenges and getting out and the accelerated anxiety and depression around i don't own my future a bank does

right so if you can cash flow this i don't have any problem with that at all man yeah that's going to be a question man that would be a great experience for you what was your second question we're running up against somebody yeah uh it's the the second part is that if i continue to stay at home i can pay off my debt but if i move back to school that people would be on pause yeah well listen

i don't want you to go into more debt we can work on the debt as soon as you graduate but it feels like moving on campus is still the best bet for you psychologically and financially right now cash flow man you got this this is the ramsay show

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if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 000 about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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[Music] so let me ask you a question when you think of a millionaire what kind of job do you picture them having is it some kind of high-powered executive position like a vp or a ceo well here's the thing only 15 percent of millionaires actually have jobs like that the reality is that the top five careers for millionaires in america are engineer accountant teacher manager and

attorney that's just one of the surprising things our team found out when we conducted the largest study of millionaires ever done they talked to thousands of millionaires about who they are and how they achieve that goal and our study also made it clear that to become a millionaire you've got to invest wisely and a big part of that is getting good investing advice you need to work with an investing pro who can walk with

you and teach you about the options that are right for you our team recommends trustworthy vetted investing pros from all over the country that we call smart vester pros if you want to get in touch with one in your area just text the word invest to 33789

and start building wealth today that's invest two three three seven eight nine this is the ramsay show i'm george campbell joined today by dr john deloni and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number brian joins us in toronto

brian welcome to the ramsay show hi guys thank you very much for having me absolutely we're doing great how can we help uh i'm a recent graduate i'm 22 years old and i graduated with my degree that freehand people awesome i decided to take the year off because i wanted to pursue a master's of public health next year but i wanted to be able to castle and i felt that i needed to develop my professional skills way to go i had an internship in toronto

um and i've secured that internship and when i thought there at the community health center uh the first words out of my supervisor's notes were you weren't my first choice uh management made me hire you my question for you guys and it just happened like two or three days ago my question for you guys is what can i do to salvage this relationship and make it to turn

this experience into a mature one that will help me realize my goal of strengthening my cv and my professional development dude this is a this is a fun situation john this is your super bowl so uh i'm just saying i may have had that happen to me a few times just saying i think i've been the second or third choice most of they ran through like 40 different personalities for they're like god just hard to loan

it then that's all we got left so dude i've been there a bunch brian um a couple of things i'd recommend you do first thing is brush this off like jay-z said brush your shoulders off dude you got to move on from this okay that in some ways that was somebody trying to weaponize like radical honesty

and they were trying to make a power play okay i'm not gonna give that a

second thought you know why because you got the job who cares who made you higher you got it

the second thing i'm gonna do is i'm going to reach out not because i'm trying to make a move or this is a good political thing no because i'm a person of dignity i'm gonna say hey i'd love to take you to coffee or can we set up some time and here's something i do with all of my bosses even at ramsey solutions i've done this i did

this with all of my other bosses is i would ask how do you like to get information are you a lunch person a coffee person do you not take lunches with different people um how do you if there's a crisis how do you want me to call you if i want to be as hospitable and i want to

be the employee that helps them be successful in their job and i take notes and then i say great i will go from there i've had bosses say i don't do lunches i do coffees with anybody who reports to me and i said great and i've had somebody say i like to do office in my office so if you'll go pick it up i'd love to meet with

you once a month but i've had it all over the place but you go first and here's the third magic thing are you ready this is gonna be the brand new news for you so i want you to hang on to your to your seat belts on this one okay do incredible work and be fun to be around the the gold standard is do your job

real well and don't be an idiot right if you do those two things and they still don't like you then your boss has a problem that you can't solve man and you're still going to leave this year or the next year or whatever this ends up turning into for you with some great experience you're going to learn how to navigate some of these wild political systems and you're gonna get some great leadership experience

and you're not gonna sacrifice your soul in the process man okay can you do that will you just go work real hard and be a person of character absolutely that helps a lot uh like i said it just kind of caught me off guard the first words out of your american league but so think about it this way thank you two kids just showed up to the school yard

and one of them was like hey man my name is is george and the other one just takes his shirt off and flexes real big and goes look at my muscles that's what just happened to you and dude like it's like cool muscles bro can we go play on the slides that's what happened don't give it a second thought just work really hard be a person a character

and you go first with how can you serve your supervisor man good for you congratulations i love that out of a sea of analogies you chose the shirt off flexing john there's so many that may have happened to me as well well brian i i've been in your shoes too i started at ramsey solutions as an intern and while the team was very loving there were people who just went ah

i don't buy it yeah this guy's not for me not my cup of tea and i had to prove them wrong not with a chip on my shoulder but just going hey i'm happy to be here i'm going to work my tail off i want to be a guy that people like to be around and here i am eight years later yeah so that's the best advice

i can give is prove them wrong and don't do it in a in a revengeful way but just kind of like all right that's cool man i'm 22 i get it i'm a young buck don't have a lot of experience i'm here to get experience yeah so uh three years from now he's probably gonna be he's gonna go man that that's that's my guy right there three years from now his resume will be on your desk

and then you can say wow yep good to see you yeah that's how it is man prove them wrong i love it all right nancy's in philadelphia nancy welcome to the ramsay show thank you so much i have been trying to find the answer this question hoping you guys can help me my question is around the long term care insurance portion of it from my understanding that that um world has changed quite drastically um my husband

and i are in our late 50s

and my husband was diagnosed with parkinson's about a year ago um we are current that's okay we're you know it's all good god was gonna bring us through all of that so i i feel very super optimistic and super hopeful um so my husband was laid off during coronavirus and for the coveted stuff he's still not got another job i was laid off for my job but i'm looking for a new job

we have zero debt the only thing we have left is um our mortgage to pay off which i'm going to do with gazelle like intensity in three years get get back on um but we're about 1.5 million and my question

is um worth and my question is do i need

long-term health care because i'm that's what i'm looking at for him and i don't know what to do at this point have you looked into what it would cost

for long-term care yes it's like fifteen thousand dollars a day if he is you know whether you know if we can't take him care of him at all anymore you're saying that it would pay out or what what does it cost you what are the premiums every year oh right okay so from what we've we've been through the um medical things we haven't been able we haven't gotten

it back whether first of all if they will even cover him there is nothing that i can find long-term care that will take us at the moment um there's the hybrid plans which i know dave is like a big node for the whole term life and the hybrid plants are super expensive like it's 20 for just for me it would be 20 000 um a year and that would be for like 10 years

but i'm not doing that i'd rather take that 20 000 and put it into investments and let that grow so i just didn't know for on his side what what i would do what i need to do for him yeah i'll let george answer the actual there's where to get it and what age and all that i think you're going to have some trouble getting long-term care with a

with that diagnosis diagnosis would be my guess unless you found somebody and it would be incredibly expensive if you do find it yeah there's

two options here you either self-insure and use your own money or you pay for this exorbitant premium and the only time that we would consider buying that hybrid policy is if you don't qualify for the traditional long-term care so while it's not ideal if it's what you can get and that makes more sense than you having to foot the bill and wipe your retirement account out i think it's worth looking into

so if i'm you i'm jumping onto ramseysolutions.com click on trusted pros and talk to one of our long-term care insurance trusted pros out there in your area they can walk you through all of your options and help you make an educated decision but i'm so sorry you're walking through this that's such a tough thing dude man he is lucky to have you running point for the rest of y'all's time together good for

you well nancy thanks for the call this is the ramsay show

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast both podcasts you can find on the ramsey network i'm joined today by dr john delony you can also find his show the dr john delaney show on the ramsey network and you have been cranking out some shows john i see you in the studio next door taking people's calls helping people

and then we put it out there for the world to consume and hopefully they get something out of it yeah it's been wild man and what about yours your you're the fine prince crushing dude thank you it's been fun we are we're trying to uncover all of the the money traps out there and it turns out there's a lot we're like we'll have to save that one for season two

we got too much on the plate to try to uncover now we just released an episode all about bankruptcy is bankruptcy a quick fix for struggling americans is there a bankruptcy tsunami on the way

i talked to some experts in this field we hear some real stories of people who are on the brink it was fascinating stuff i learned so much you can go check that out on the fine print podcast feed some really good stuff there some things that are hard to hear and we try to bring some levity to it i did my best michael scott impression in the office where

he declares bankruptcy that's one of my favorite tv moments of my entire life it's gold like i try to keep track of the hardest i've ever laughed and that's in the top ten wow yeah so go go listen just for that there's also a dashboard confessional reference in the podcast so i sneak a lot of things in there just to make it fun for me john but we're having

i mean i'm just looking at these topics man you cover hard stuff like yeah taxed off the true cost of credit card rewards i only use them for the points george makes me feel so don't rile me up john not now bulletproof your money for the next pandemic there won't be a next pin there for sure will be sorry guys man by now pay later you know what's super cool buying a 20 t-shirt on payments john

they now you can do buy now pay later i'm not joking on pizza you can put a pizza on payments well it's just like putting it on a credit card right yeah but this is worse

it's because of the mentality around it of you know what why pay fifteen dollars for pizza today when i can pay four dollars for the next four months what are we doing here man wow it's crazy stuff bitcoin solves all of our problems credit scores oh so good

student loans are back and bankruptcy yikes yeah man we're not even done we're not even done in fact you are on our next episode on holiday spending and if you've been seeing the headlines the supply chain is basically saying like hey you're too late for holiday shopping it's too late the pumpkins just came out and you're already too late for christmas so a lot of good stuff coming your way we're doing one on diy investing

this year you get high fives yep high fives kids well i relate it to the jingle all the way with arnold schwarzenegger and sinbad fighting over the turbo man action figure on christmas eve and it's the best analogy i can think of i wish it was that fun that's how dark the holiday season has come that we're back to schwarzenegger and sinbad we're back baby 1996 jingle all

the way so it's a lot of fun we're having a good time helping people understand that if you follow the trends you will fall for the traps right do it old school do a grandma's way that's what this show's all about and you can just operate outside of the system buck the trends man that's what i'm all about and i know you are too you know what

i love i don't like bucking this i like sleeping at night i like that my christmas shopping is already done because they were telling us about supply chain issues a year ago and so me and my wife were like hey why don't we go ahead and take care of some of that life hack christmas a year ahead of time it's not even a life hack it's just like a math problem or a supply chain

i mean yeah some of this is like oh wait what am wait a minute halloween's five day god well john people are they they can't think that far ahead because they have so much going on in their life so much anxiety so much debt payments thing to keep up with social things and they can't even think about what's going on this weekend yeah and so we've got to get people to think ahead

let's be intentional man and that's what that's what we do is all about so we're happy to take your call it's a free one triple eight eight two five five and check out dr john dolone on the next episode on holiday spending you help us create some boundaries with family around the holidays super helpful stuff that is one of the biggest things to face so a lot of good stuff happening around here at ramsey solutions we're going to tom in miami florida tom welcome to

the ramsay show

hey guys how you doing doing great how can we help so i uh i know the father husband inside me what i want to do i just need some guidance long story short i have a uh 2021 chevy suburban that is um almost paid off i have probably about 10 grand on it i could turn around and sell it given the used car market for about 70. and

given the financial situation of our family it would really help with i haven't done a very good job uh leading our family financially um we're we're getting better but um you know it would put us and that's the only debt that we have is that as the rest of the vehicle

i'm i've been talking to my wife about selling it and that'll give us a fully funded emergency fund i'm severely behind on retirement to the point of i haven't started yet i'm 37 years old um

and with the scope of the economy and everything and just with you know everything going on i feel like uh you know it's my duty that i gotta i gotta get this turned around somehow my wife loves the car granted i

mean it's it's a beautiful vehicle but we have three kids a two-year-old a

four-year-old almost six-year-old and i can imagine now i'm neurotic about it it's causing me a lot of stress that the car is going to get destroyed and the value's not going to be in it and so i'm just i don't know what to do

that's my question well number one dude um i this is this is one of the this is this i've taken a few brave calls today we recorded several episodes of my show earlier today and i talked to a brave man and you two are also brave you're brave for looking at one scary place and that's the mirror

and saying um i need to make some changes i got three little ones and i just i'm looking at the news and the world's changing and i gotta do i gotta do better dude i wanna high-five you i'd hug you if you were here i'm proud of you man that's a hard place to start is in the mirror so good for you number two it sounds like you've crushed a whole bunch of other debt is that right yeah we've we've done well

we we actually we bought a house in 2015 and we were very fortunate to accrue a lot of equity in it um hey i want to stop you real quick you know what you're really you're really good at when things are bad you take the blame and when things go well yeah you say we

or you say we just got really lucky on this one i suck but we got lucky i want you to own the good and the bad okay

yeah yeah is that a fair trade

yep okay so let's start owning the good stuff so you bought a house in 2015 the market appreciated you made a great purchase and then what uh we moved into a brand new home which were blast beyond belief um

you know and yeah i mean we've we've done some upgrade you know we had to put a fence around it you know so the kids weren't flying the neighbors pond and you know but we we you know we depleted pretty much a lot of the equity with the down payment of the home and you know all the other stuff that we had to do to it and you cash flow yeah okay yeah so to get to your question um

i don't have a love affair with cars george i know you do so maybe you're i'm just kidding you don't either me and john both drive trash cars that are worth a tenth of what that suburban so if it's me yes i'm with you i'd sell that car i would go buy a great highlander something that i could tote three kids around in that also i could grow with for

the next decade and then i'm setting everybody up the other side of this conversation is less about my wife loves the car that that that's okay those disagreements happen throughout marriages all time i'm more concerned that i don't know that she's heard your heart yet does she know that you are scared

um yeah

of okay here's what i want you to do

i i have a tendency a lot of my friends have a tendency to have these conversations and their math problems look at this we could sell this pay off this buy this and be done with this i want you to sit down when you take your wife out for a meal and i want you to look her across the table and say i'm scared about our financial situation i'm ashamed of how i've how i've led us here

and i want you and me to be together in this making the next steps and i want to sell this car and it's going to bring me peace will you join me with this

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the housing market is hot and your house could be worth a lot more today than it was when you bought it that means your old insurance policy might not give you enough coverage anymore and what's the point of paying for insurance that won't swing the cost to repair or rebuild your home now some policies will automatically raise your coverage to cover rising home prices or material costs

but not all of them if your home's value has gone up or it's been over a year since you checked your homeowner's policy you need to talk to one of our endorsed local providers these independent agents will compare multiple policies to find the best coverage for your home in your budget that's why they are ramsay trusted because they'll put you first period text the word home to 33789 to talk with a trusted home insurance pro today that's home to three three seven eight nine i'm george campbell ramsey personality joined today by dr john delony

and it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five celeste joins us in phoenix arizona celeste welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you so much absolutely how can john and i help so my husband and i recently crossed kind of a big financial milestone that we're

excited about but also now have a whole new set of questions that we're trying to figure out in short we're trying to determine whether it might make sense to press pause on our retirement savings

for one year so that we can instead front load our daughter's 529 um for college savings

so you you got through baby step three this fully funded emergency fund and then you went oh gosh our daughter's about to go to school and we haven't saved should we stop investing for retirement the situ i'm sorry to enroll too the situation is a little different than that so first she's three so we have some time oh good um i thought she was like 17. yeah

no and and we've we have been saving we have about 25 000 in her retirement i'm sorry in her fort 529 account

um you're doing great we've

yeah what makes you think you're not on track um i think when when i started doing the math and looking at calculators we got to the point that i kind of realized every dollar we put in now will be worth like two when she's in high school and we're trying to think about whether

theoretically you might be looking to retire around the same time that she starts college so we're trying to figure out if front loading you know putting putting more into her 529 now so that we might

not have to put as much in later would put us in a stronger position just from an expense perspective when she's in

college well i'll say i don't want you to pause investing i think you guys are doing great this is not a dire situation i mean she's got 15 years before she's even going to explore these college options you already have 25 000 saved it sounds like you're gonna have well over six figures as this money grows over the next 15 years is that right

we hope so um i think you know we're also concerned about these crazy inflation rates for college specifically

you know it looks like it's been well over five percent over the last few years but it it it makes me feel calmer to hear you well i don't want you losing sleep at night over inflation because your daughter is going to have a great head on her shoulders and she's going to focus on what college she can afford 15

years from now and there's gonna be options out there i lived in that world i am

i'll just tell you i have an eleven-year-old and a six-year-old and i'm not front loading mine um the the year over year five percent seven percent three and a half percent tuition hikes that have been going on for the last 25 or 30 years cannot continue

this college will be a million dollar i mean it won't be a practical investment so i would not get over out of your skis don't overthink it can i just have you guys been doing this for a long time you all been running and running and running for a season

yeah pretty hard and you know i mentioned at the beginning we have sort of a milestone that we've crossed which is we've kind of looked up and just realized we we've got almost 1.2 million

in our retirement account incredible part of what's driving it too thank you yeah we we feel really good about that and honestly it just it just kind of happened without our even realizing sure well y'all are doing all the right things and can so here's what i want to shift your perspective you you know have you heard of dave talk about gazelle intensity

a gazelle is running from a lion for its life and that's how he wants people to attack that he wants people to get off that system like your life depends on it you can run into some problems psychologically spiritually physically if you continue running like that for the rest of your life and you guys crossed a magic milestone and it's not magic you worked your butts off

and you got here that way i want y'all to stop for a minute you're not running for your lives anymore and i want you to breathe and have peace and i want you to enjoy this little girl i want you to do your regular investing y'all are millionaires i want you to live your life debt-free and i want you to put the normal amount of money in

this 529 understanding that either college is gonna be a million dollars and they're gonna have to figure something else out or the colleges are gonna have to re-regulate themselves which i think is what's gonna happen and y'all guys are doing a great job

you're doing a great job and you don't have to run for your life anymore

thanks for that are you still there okay there you are you're so taken aback yeah just just processing some people

myself included get so obsessed with sprinting and sprinting that we are going to get to the end of our lives and have a great retirement we're going to realize we missed it and that's why dave's so intentional about baby steps four five and six which is make sure you live too right be intentional about your life but make sure you're living too y'all aren't running for your lives anymore you're just not celeste how old are you two

uh 43 you're 43 and you are millionaires you are doing amazing yeah congratulations and you have a three-year-old that you already have 25 000 saved for for college we have people calling in that are way older with kids way older who are a lot less freaked out than you are so i just want to affirm that you guys are doing so so well and like john said take a breather when's the last time you guys did something fun for yourselves oh i mean we're pretty good about that good i just want to make sure because i know it can be so hard when you're just running a gun and to go no no this money could be used over here we could fund the college if we don't go on vacation this year and this is a marathon and you guys are doing great you're going to retire with multiple millions of dollars if you just keep following the baby steps like you've been doing keep investing the 15 percent build up the 529 do you guys have a paid for uh property or are you working on the mortgage after this no we we have not paid off our mortgage yet so that'll be that'll be next great so i want you to keep the other goals in mind too it's it's not all about funding college we love to say that there's a hundred percent chance you will retire there's a 50 50 chance your daughter goes to college and so we want to make sure that you're taken care of first you've got the mask on before you help your daughter out and you're already doing that you're going to pay off the mortgage uh probably the next few years at this point based on how well you guys are doing what's your household income uh about this year it'll be about 250.

250. oh my gosh i'm not worried about

your daughter going to college debt-free i mean you could cash flow this at this point right just out of your budget if you needed to um so you guys are doing great and in 15 years guess what you're gonna have a paid for house if you're doing at the ramsey way and you're not going to let your daughter go to college with student loans and she's going to be raised up in that house with amazing parents who have worked so hard to leave a different legacy for her

that's the plan fingers crossed no you don't need fingers crossed you're there that's what people do when they're hoping you don't need to hope let me say this in a way hopefully you can understand you're a millionaire

a millionaire and on average return

which we know things are like shaking a snow globe every seven years it doubles so if you're 1.2 then that's 2.4 and that's 4.8 million and that's

just when your daughter decides to go to college y'all are okay you're more than okay you're kicking but at that at 4.8 in a paid for house you'll be able to cashflow college and retire and do whatever you want to congratulations you're crushing it so proud of you way to go celeste that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books our thanks to producer james childs austin selby handling all of

the phone screening today kelly daniels uh acting associate producer i guess in the back there and dr john deloney thanks for being a great co-pilot on this wild ride in you america for listening in we can't do this without you we're thankful for you checking out the show today it's free call triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll be back with you before you know

it

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hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermzyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money and your relationships and your whatever i'm george campbell ramsey personality joined today by dr john deloney host of the dr john deloney show john how long did it take to come up with that name the doctor probably too many hours

the amount of hours is embarrassing and we don't even talk about it anymore i had some cool like names for the show after old heavy metal bands that they didn't go anywhere it was a lot of discussion didn't uh didn't really go anywhere it's fine it's a solid name yeah it's good strong hey but give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we're talking about everything

and hey we got a lobby full of smart vester pros from all over the country so good to see you wave everybody it's great to see you they're like kids in a candy shop right now wandering around here it's so great they are pumped up my kids in a cookie store because they're actually our cookies out there but it's good to see everybody that's a good thing to to note that

we do have free cookies free mugs free coffees all the combinations that's right we love it just south of nashville all right open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five zak kicks off this hour in huntington west virginia zach welcome to the ramsay show hello hey how can we help

okay yeah so i'm calling because um

right now i'm pursuing several pastorate positions and these positions they come with uh

personages uh you know the house on the on the church um and i was wanting to know what you thought my wife is thinking that we should just use a housing allowance and buy a house wherever we're at but i'm not so sure about that because if i can get the personage it'll it'll come with utilities paid and i won't have to worry about any financial decisions

but my wife thinks that it's it's not secure enough that it fall right out underneath of us so i was wanting to know if you thought that i should just go if we should just go for the parsonage you know of the free house with the utilities paid and you know all that the stuff that comes with it so i was just curious what you guys thought about that

i i'll give you my perspective george you hop in here too um first thing is give me a picture of your of your total financial picture

so well right now i'm a teacher but if i take this i will i will uh you know be a full-time pastor um

i owe about 50 000 okay what kind of debt is that it's student loans from uh seminary okay

um and what's this what's this pastor position going to pay you about 40 000. okay 40 000 plus a house

plus a house okay with no utilities right right so they pay all your your expenses when it comes to housing yes okay so you have a picture of a house where y'all are gonna crash and your wife has a picture of a home where you don't crash it's where you live in a season when my wife and i owed six figures she's a a doctor too we have a bajillion degrees

in our house too much too many degrees in our house we sold our home and we moved into a residence hall apartment at a university where i worked and we were faculty and residents and we did that for a year and i took on two extra jobs and she

was a rock star professor and we paid off a whole bunch of money

and we had about a year that we could do that and so if i'm you i would sit down and say i dug us into a hole 50 000 in seminary loans and this is a

way to clear that up in 18 months or so

and i would let her know hey our plan is to become debt free we're gonna let's live in this personage and we're gonna have no bills we have no electric no internet no nothing and we are as a family we're gonna suck this up for 18 months or 24 months max tell your bosses at the church we're going to do this and then we're going to expect

the housing allowance on the back end and then you'll go buy yourselves a place but that's what i would do and that way you can sit down and say hey we can crash for a destination and in our home

me and my wife and my my son we made those little chains that you make out of construction paper i mean we set it up this is short term for us we can do anything for short term and then we went and bought a house that we could become a forever house right not a forever house but a whole a home that's what we said set up a home

so that's how i would approach it yeah i love that mentality what's the housing allowance if you took that um you know it varies from church to church you know uh but about like 1500 a month okay and like john said if you could pay off your debt stay at the parsonage and then could you take that housing allowance down the line if you agreed to yeah

it would definitely cover you know stuff because i'm in west virginia housing prices are really low here there you go you know yeah and so yeah you one of two things is going to happen you're going to be debt free you're going to have accomplished something together you're going to have sucked it up you're going to be able to um say look at what we did or you're going to realize man living partners is kind of awesome

we call somebody else when something's broken and now that we are debt-free we can just start socking away this this living money and continue saving and saving and saving at one point uh some point buy a house with cash right but but again put it put a short-term lease on this deal i shouldn't say lease i'm on the ramsey show put a short-term leash h and um

then go from there and is your wife going to be working at all zach

it's possible probably part time if so she's an engineer so okay that's great well i'm thinking if she can come in and help with with this shovel to get more income coming in and you guys could clean up this debt even faster and get her to that dream even faster you clean up this debt you'll get a down payment for a house get an emergency fund and get out of there man it's great good for you

thanks for thanks for the call zach way to go man interesting scenario with the parson it's a fun word to say number one but very interesting scenario where they're paying for you basically you can live here rent free and you experience something like that in some of your previous uh careers where they're paying for this and so we've got to make a financial decision what does this mean for our future housing

because i think what the wife is seeing is hey we don't own this we're not building towards anything with them paying for our rent well and you don't feel secure because somebody else owns your home right and we get that call from renters a lot we get that call from hey if i just sold my house and moved in with my parents me and my five kids

and my wife moved in with my parents for a season right and i i've done it and for a season it was magical

and i say magical it was hard but in my case we learned that we could live a lot smaller than we thought and every house we've bought since then has been actually small i mean we ended up changing our whole trajectory of our life we got rid of a bunch of stuff we live a lot lighter and so we learned a lot about ourselves and we paid off everything

and um it set us up for the next several decades of my life because we we made a hard decision there in the middle it was not a two or three year decision right it was hard with a little one and two working people et cetera et cetera so it's meant to catapult you through the baby steps faster a short-term plan with an exit strategy that's when

it can be applied we wrote down the plan we were very clear and then we executed that plan right brilliant that's the way to do it get rid of the step man this is the ramsay show [Music]

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for most homeowners being financially ready to sell a house comes down to one thing equity now equity is a jargony

word but all it means that your home is worth more than what you owe the bank for it and since home values have been on the rise for the last several years many folks have built up you guessed it equity how much of the home you owe you own so if you've been thinking about selling your home the first step is to figure out if equity is on your side

because you want to make money on the sale of your home right if your equity looks good it might be time to go ahead and get your home on the market and that's when you need to find an experienced real estate agent to help the right real estate agent does way more than just schedule showings they know how to accurately price your home get it in front of hungry buyers

and help you navigate negotiations that way you won't leave any money on the table to connect with a top performing agent check out our nationwide network of endorsed local providers or elp agents

elps are the best real estate agents in your area who've earned the right to be ramsey trusted our agents are committed to excellent service and to putting your financial goals first if you want to check them out just go to ramseysolutions.com agent you can find a trusted pro in your area that's ramseysolutions.com agent i'm george campbell host of the fine print on and entre leadership podcast joined today by dr john dolone we're taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five lisa joins us in minneapolis lisa welcome to

the ramsey show hi thanks for having me absolutely how can we help yeah so i'm calling because um i'm recently married and um also recently graduated from law school congratulations huge a lot of life changing thank you did you pass the bar yes i did yeah congrats i know they just went out all over congratulations yes they did thank you appreciate it um so i have um 60 000 of debt from law

school alone yep how much from undergrad none none excellent yep my dad is a very large proponent of living debt free so my upbringing was very much those structure around the principles that um ramsay teaches so very cool fortunate in that sense um but my husband is still in grad school and he has another year and a half i'll graduate in december of 2022.

um and so my question for you guys is should we focus on paying off my debt now that you

know i mean granted the government isn't requiring us to pay off anything right now but i know we should be or should i

be paying cash for the rest of his schooling that he has so the option is he goes into debt to continue grad school or you start paying off your loans right stop the bleeding yes

okay so pay his school keep cash yeah we want to minimize the damage here going forward for your debt your debt payments so as long can you cash flow the rest of his school yes great and as soon as he's out uh

does he have any debt so far

like 20 000 from last trimester okay so that puts you guys at about 80 grand total in debt and that's all student loans yep okay yes let's cash flow the rest of his grad school and december 2022 he graduates january 2023 it's game on

we're going gazelle intense with hopefully amazing salaries what do you think your uh combined salary will be at that point um probably over 200 it's hard to know

if um he'll be a chiropractor so it's hard to know sure as he's getting minneapolis it's the most saturated market right now so if you if you're making 200 and you've got 80 dollars in debt that debt is gone in under a year yeah yeah

okay get it get it get it you're gonna take cases on the side too he's gonna see people in the garage they're gonna do whatever you gotta do get that get rid of that and then you're basically a on a two and a half year plan to be completely debt free and then you're off to the races and now you're making two three hundred grand in a few years with no debt

and you guys are young how old are you two twenty three and twenty four oh yeah dude congratulations this is what i like to hear way to go lisa we're so proud of you cheering you on as he finishes grad school and you guys get this debt paid off thanks for the call nick joins us in annapolis maryland nick welcome to the ramsay show thank you how can

we help so i a few weeks ago managed to screw my car up pretty bad i got it mostly fixed up but sounds pretty bad so i'm not sure how long it has left in it and i was looking at the used car market and with everything so inflated it feels like it might almost be better just buy new so i was wondering uh what i should do in my situation um a couple of questions here

so have you taken it to get it looked at see about fixing it yeah i got a i got it fixed up a good bit paid a good bit to do that and uh it still seems like it's probably going to be on its last legs pretty soon what makes you think that um sound steering's pretty bad uh

it was already a little old and okay kind of a beater to begin with okay sometimes i have been guilty of in my own life i start finding problems with things because i want to change and especially after i get in a wreck i have this feeling the car is not any good anymore it's not safe anymore or i'm just mad at it or i just paid a big repair bill

so i hate it and so that's why i'm digging in like is it are you done with the car are you sick of it are you annoyed by it does it make you mad up to me get in it because you just had to spend 5 000 bucks to fix it or is it really going to fall apart on you um to answer your other question i think

it comes down to cash and what you how long you're gonna hang under a car um i'm i'm i'm in the market to buy a used car right now and i can say that out loud because my wife doesn't listen to this show and it's for her christmas present and so i'm buying it early and i'll be buying it the next couple of days and i got cash

and i'm planning on buying a car that i'm going to drive that we're going to drive as a family for a long long time hopefully for a

decade or so and so the the

the higher price right now i it will make itself up over the next decade i'm not worried about that if you're gonna buy a car and then sell it in two years and sell it in two years and sell it two years yeah it'd be a terrible time to buy any kind of car right um what is your even though you think it's gonna be less buying a new car well

i don't know i will say this i've heard some bananas deals i haven't seen the numbers that there's dealer incentives for getting rid of new cars and then you can actually walk in a dealer buy a new car for cheaper than you can buy a used car in some situations especially when it comes to trucks and things i don't know if that's true or not that's all anecdotal what

i would tell you is don't do anything on any sort of payment

do you have cash to go buy a car i need to i would definitely need to finance yeah absolutely not hang on to your car man so what's your what's your financial picture how much money do you have in cash in savings um so in cash in my savings i think i have about eight grand today um okay uh 8 grand in 401k as well do you

have debt um only the house oh just a house

okay yeah i bought a house a few months ago right before graduation so you don't have any debt except the mortgage and you've got pretty much you're basically kind of in this baby step three maybe land around there is this three to six months of expenses if you add that up yeah yeah definitely okay so until that car actually goes to put and it's not an emergency because we kind of know this thing's on its way out if i'm you i'm going to start to create a sinking fund very quickly where i go all right every month i'm going to throw a few hundred bucks at least into a separate savings account so that when this card does go i'm ready to use whatever money i have to buy whatever car i can get for that amount of money so it becomes a simple math equation instead of well i could get this 25 000 car new and it's actually a good deal because use they go for 26.

that's just some backwards math there and i don't want you financing like john talked about so can you create a sinking fund right now i mean you must have a little bit of margin in your baby steps now that you don't have any debt yeah um i think i have about 2 000 a month that doesn't go into like so wiggle room you've got two grand are you investing 15 into retirement before that um right now i think it's doing five percent uh i just got the emergency fund back up so i need to start doing the 15.

yeah let's get that investing up to 15. and uh do you have kids uh no i'm 22.

money after that 15 that's going into a car savings fund and that's going to be my a1 is to get a car that i can afford in cash that is your next goal nick and in 10 months you got 20 000 in an account boom now you can go buy yourself a used car that's not gonna be fancy pants but it's gonna be safer than when you got don't borrow money on a depreciating asset don't be fancy pants john said it best this is the ramsay show

[Music]

[Music]

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means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from caleb in scotland did i do that right that was a pretty rough accent but continue it wasn't great

it's fine today's question comes from caleb william wallace in scotland better says my friends have gotten caught up in the bitcoin market craze and are making a lot of money trading i know your company says it's not a secure investment but i have to admit i'm intrigued by the money they're making is it a good idea to put some of my emergency fund in bitcoin and see how fast i can grow my savings george you are a bitcoin expert oh my gosh john okay so we did an episode on on the fine print all about bitcoin we called it is bitcoin your ticket to wealth could bitcoin be your ticket 12.

and what made me laugh at the end there was to see how fast i can grow my savings and in my head i thought you mean to see how fast you can lose your savings that's that's the question i want you to ask it's a risk problem john i know you're you're big on this risk analysis and what we found with bitcoin is that we're not against bitcoin i'm not mad at

you if you want to put some money in bitcoin but this is not your 15 retirement we're not banking on this money to live off of now if you want to do some fun money if you're debt-free you're already investing you've got your life taken care of you want to put some fun money into bitcoin that's fine have some fun with it but treat it like entertainment

because right now that's what it is and so no it's not a good idea to put your emergency fund in bitcoin because guess what when there's an emergency you're gonna need that money and it needs to be liquid you need to be able to pull that out of the account and know it's going to be there and with the drop of a dime or elon musk saying something on saturday night live your emergency fund could vanish evaporates that frightens me

so don't do that man put it put your emergency fund in a money market account and a high yield savings account and keep it there part for safety this is not where you want to play with investing and for those of you who want to use bitcoin as a hedge the dollar's all going down so we're gonna have please don't please please do just a rudimentary risk assessment on how how currency works don't do that don't do that love yourself more than that right that's all i'm going to say that's

it that's it caleb thanks for the question all the way across many ponds to scotland yeah that's fun and we

either i wish you would have called in and i could have heard that amazing scottish accent all right open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five allen is in houston texas home of the john d'alone welcome to the ramsay show allen hello gentlemen thank you for taking my call alan what is tonight what is tonight you know something i'm actually out of town right now oh boy oh alan i'm guessing there's a big game john just

first game of the world series that the astros are going to win but whatever go ahead with your question directly into the phone we had you nice and clear there for a second yeah okay so [Music] uh unfortunately last month my father passed away oh man

i'm so sorry yeah it's it's still hard yeah absolutely man how do you pass away

cancer cancer i'm sorry he he fought the cancer for two years

when the doctors two years ago gave him eight weeks to live so he did good he's a warrior that's right man yeah dad was always a big time fighter

he he did everything great he really did it's awesome man so how can we help today so i stand to inherit between some

in the neighborhood of about five to six hundred thousand okay i have been a truck driver for 22 years now i could actually with that kind of money

buy my own truck and trailer i would then stand to profit probably

about an extra 50 maybe 75 000 a year

up above what i'm making now okay do you think that something like that would be a good investment or just putting half a million dollars into a good mutual fund and just let letting it do its job down well the the latter with you starting your own business is a whole lot more work i mean if you put 600 000 into a good growth stock mutual fund

and it grows at 10 percent uh with a rate of return that's 60 grand a year right there which is what you said you'd be making profit from the business now if you want to start a business because that's your heart and that's where your passion lies then i think you start this business uh what's your whole financial picture look like do you have any debt currently uh about 28 000 on

the car loan and

that's it okay and do you have a mortgage no i would like to eventually buy a house okay so that was my question is what are the what's the whole picture so we can really look at your goals uh holistically and go all right if a house is your goal maybe we do that before we start the business and get into the into the trucking game so you're you're renting right now yes okay

if i'm you just this is just brushing over it i'm gonna go all right i'm paying off this debt a1 this 28 000 car loan is gone as soon as you get this money followed by i'm gonna pay cash for my first house and do that as a way to honor my dad and the legacy he left well that's really important to me actually in fact the day

i get the money um taking 4 100 hours and pledging it to

his synagogue because that's what he would want to do with it awesome yeah because his wishes are most important right now i just want to make them proud yeah yeah um when when do you expect to receive a check um it's going through probate right now

okay um so i already received about 150

from an inherited 401k

and the rest of it i added another 2 2

50 i would say probably before end of the year and then there's another 200 and change

invested in a building that me and my brother now own outright okay so it depends on when we sell that and all that stuff so here's what i want you to do i want you to do nothing for six months

okay okay and this is the advice that i was given by the guy who who trained me in crisis response and

it's been wisdom that i've passed on over and over nothing will make sense for six months and you're gonna think it does one day and it's not the next day you clearly loved your old man he was an awesome guy

he left you a legacy he left you with with you and your brother with financial security and you're gonna be grieving this and letting this settle for a season so i don't want you to sprint off and say oh i got to go do this gotta go do that i want to spend this money before before you even have the check in your hand i want that money to get to

you if it's coming in different investments you may want to hang on to some of those investments and not cash them out or you may have to take um graduated withdrawals from them depending on what kind of accounts they are so clearly sit with down with the smartvestor pro to walk through what you've got um but i want you to hang on to this for six months dream a little bit think about

it a little bit and maybe i want to get out of trucking all together or i love what i do man it's always been my dream like george said i've wanted to have my own business forever actually i just want to buy a small house and settle down for a season and become a local driver right it's all those things um it just gives you some space to grieve some space to make some of those decisions does that sound okay yes

it does awesome very cool we'll be thinking about you and your family praying for you and what a cool legacy that your old man left huh

yes he did he did he he did very well in life in business but the most important thing too was his family that's all that mattered was family family family incredible incredible thank you so much for the call brother yeah thanks for sharing that story that's awesome john i love to hear situations like that where it's not easy but it makes it easier when you're not left with a financial mess

and instead there's a financial blessing on the other side yeah it's such a gift to be able to say what do we want to do not what do we have to do you've got options that's one of the best legacies you can leave well so financial financial legacies are great and so i just imagine my kids sitting around saying man that guy loved me i can't think of anything more incredible wow love

it very cool awesome this is the ramsay show

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day comes from 2nd chronicles 15 7. but as for you

be strong and do not give up for your work will be rewarded christopher columbus said you can never cross the ocean until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore

amazing we had quotes back then john who's writing these down 1450s yeah i'm calling i don't know about that one he's calling the bluff on columbus there all righty well hey i'm george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print podcast and entree leadership podcast joined today by the amazing dr john deloney host of the dr john dolone show you can find all those shows on the ramsay network uh wherever

you find podcasts all the stuff john's show is on mondays wednesdays fridays youtube podcast it's everywhere that's right i can't get away from it john i pull up my youtube and it's all john dolone clips you've taken over yeah see i have this um it's cool my job is every day i don't get to just do a series like you do oh that hurts that hurts john

the amount of work we put into our beautiful narrative storytelling podcast let's do ten episodes and call it good for the year we're whittling away with a little pick to make a perfectly crafted 30-year podcast you found a glitch in the matrix so congratulations i have to show up every day to record my show so it's cool man hurtful it's good well uh it's been a fun ride guys me

and john clearly uh two two hours and 40 minutes is our limit together before john james is about to pop in i actually don't show up every day either so it's okay well the way to avoid all of this is to go to the phone lines john that's where we do our best our best work and nina is on the line in pensacola florida nina welcome to

the ramsay show thank you for having me absolutely how can john and i help um i have a question about trying to minimize the accumulation of interest on my um on my loans okay

on student loans yes sir i have um i have federal student loans i also have a private loan and they have credit cards as well okay

so you want to minimize interest what was the the thinking behind minimizing interest just you you don't want to pay more than you have to pay

yeah um ideally i would love to be able

to start paying it off but realistically i'm in an intensive nursing program right now and i don't graduate until after the summer of next year um so i wouldn't be able to start working to start paying it off so um i

actually tried to transfer my credit card debt um to get zero apr for at least a year

try to get that interest down i don't know about loan consolidation if that would help but try to get the interest down are you continuing to take on debt as you finish this program i am um i am finding ways to pay for it um as the semesters come i'm not taking any more federal loan that i'm not taking out any private loans at the moment so what are you taking out to pay for this

um the money that's been coming in from covid

like um the school's been sending me money for clothes like um relief funds and then

everything that supplement my parents have been helping me to cover it yeah okay well the interest has been paused with the student relief um extension being in place until january 31st so february 1st payments are back on interest back on and so the best thing you can do is pay off your loans while you can right now but it sounds like you don't have the cash flow to do that as you continue to finish this program

so the only way to minimize interest on your loans other than refinancing getting a lower interest is to actually pay off the debt as quickly as possible and so that's why we recommend what's called the debt snowball and it sounds counterintuitive because what we say is hey ignore the interest rate you're just going to list the debts from smallest to largest the balances you're going to pay minimum payments on all of those debts except for

the smallest debt and on that debt you're going to attack it with a vengeance with everything you've got with side job money any income you're going to shave your expenses down to bare bones and attack that debt because once you do that you free up a payment you are making on that debt and you use that on the next debt and the next debt and the next debt

so that is truthfully the best way to minimize interest is to get rid of the debt as fast as possible

all right since you're still in school and i do know a special medical intensives whether it's nursing or nurse practitioners or you know you're in your clinical rotations in med school whatever i understand those are those take up your your entire life you're working 10 to 12 hour 14 hour shifts and then you're doing class work at night and then you're starting up and doing that over again your goal right now is to get through school with no more debt stop the bleeding okay put a put a plug

in that in that drain so the water doesn't keep coming out trying to fill up the drain doesn't matter if i mean trying to fill up the sink doesn't matter if the if it's just all draining right back at the bottom so stop the the drain stop the bleeding i'm going to use as many metaphors i'm just going to use 30 of them in this one a lot of medical analysis too many

but stop that and then when you get done with school you're gonna have to make a commitment to yourself that you're gonna do what george just said put those debts in in order smallest to largest and you're gonna start knocking them off and you're not gonna buy a new car you're not gonna go buy a new house with your big nursing salary you're gonna just spend that

first year that first two years getting out of debt and you're gonna set yourself up for a lifetime of peace okay good for you thanks for the call nina we are going to selena in salt lake city selena welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you for taking my call absolutely how can john and i help okay i just sold my house today earlier today congratulations thank

you thank you i'm currently i moved out of state recently moved to utah so i'm currently paying a higher rent than my mortgage was but i sold my house earlier today and with the money i intend to pay off all of my student loan debt which is about thirty nine thousand i love it i'm going to take five thousand dollars add it to my emergency fund which will bring that up to fifteen thousand

and then i'll have forty thousand left over and so my question is what do i do with that because i i don't have any car payments credit card debt um i don't have a mortgage um and i don't want to just put it in a bank and have it sit there that's awesome so selling this house has catapulted you from baby step one to four pretty quickly yes where are

you gonna live um currently i'm in oregon utah i moved here for work from nebraska but are you just renting an apartment yes renting a town home uh the market here is actually worse for maybe a a not very nice condo or townhome they run about like four hundred thousand wow we're out for out for outdated condos that need all new flooring and on a busy street

and a corner spot so that's and it sounds like your next goal so you you'll be investing 15 with this new job i assume into retirement i'm currently at 8 and that's another thing because of my age i don't know if you know if i should do the traditional or the roth um i struggle with that um but currently i'm investing eight percent into my how old does

it work

i'm 42. okay i mean you can definitely

connect with a smartvestor pro in that area to go hey what is my best bet based on when i want to retire what my goals are but on the money side once you've got i would bump that up to 15 regardless of if it's in traditional roth don't let that paralyze you in your decision-making process but once you've got that it sounds like your next goal is to plant roots

there and maybe get a house um not necessarily my daughter has two years of high school left and so i i just there's a lot of uncertainties right now so you might be moving again in a few years i'm i'm i might be and so i'm

thinking whether it's buy a house and you know either here somewhere else i'd like to possibly have that money work for me somehow but i just don't know where how you know do i open up my own vanguard account and do a you know standard s p do i dump it in my retirement which you know what i wouldn't be able to use later um i think beyond

the 15 it comes down to hey do i want to save up for the down payment in the future whether it's in salt lake city area or elsewhere and you can park that money in a high yield savings account and get a half percent if it's going to be long term if it's if you're talking three four five plus years you could put it in some index funds in vanguard

you could put it in some mutual funds to let it grow at a higher rate but if it's going to be short term i wouldn't go investing into the market yet especially if you don't know what the next few years looks like okay so short term would be if i'm not going to less than four or five years yeah one to two years yeah if we're talking one to two years that's too short for me to be jumping in

the market but if it's longer than that if you're talking three to five you can park that in some index funds or mutual funds and let that grow thanks so much for the call it's been a fun hour john our thanks to james child's producer austin selby on the phone screening kelly daniel associate producer and you america thanks so much for listening until next time spend wisely save intentionally

and give generously this is the ramsay show [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

[Music]

you

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## 214. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 23, 2024)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll4mBgXLaII) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:39 |

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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today from the Ramsey Network it's the

Ramsey Show I'm Jade warsha next to me is Dr John deloney and we're taking your

calls we're talking about your life and your money we're helping people build wealth do work that they love and have

amazing relationships this is a live

show you can give us a call if you want to call in the number is 888 825 5225

and we'll try and get you on the line and try to hook you up with the advice that you need all right John you ready to do this let's go let's go straight to the phone lines we've got Jody and Milwaukee Wisconsin what up

Jody Hi how are you doing great how can

we help today I well I'm oh I can't

believe I called in and I'm doing this but anyways um I am in a very um

emotionally abusive emotionally and

financially abusive relationship um I've

been with him for 18 years we have a nine-year-old daughter and I need out

and

I I I start trying to figure out plans

and I like we'll research this and

research that and then I'll put this in order and then I and um I become this

paralyzed Whirlpool of this is I you

know what I'm saying like I could probably help other people but my brain

and I'm just emotionally exhausted too so I don't think that helps um what what

happened Jody something happened that said you said this is enough what

happened

um you know I think I have um a blood

clotting disorder and I had a blood clot

um at the beginning of the summer a a deep vein blood clot in my leg um and

they are incredibly painful um also

potentially life-threatening I've had a couple of ones I had one in my pelvis after my pregnancy that um came close to

damaging my heart I had some in my

things like that so it's a really serious thing and um I am sitting on the

recliner and he comes home from work and

starts screaming at me to get off my

lazy butt that I'm on his chair and blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I

mean that's just one example and I mean

my daughter and I are both staring at him and I said I don't know why you think you can talk to me like

this and I

mean I you know like it's a big deal my

blood clot is a big

deal and I just I've been done before

and then things happened and I allowed

my plans to become derailed and

everything like that and so I do me a

favor right do me a favor right now Jody

uhuh where is all of this in your body

is it in your chest it is okay take your

fist and put it in your chest right now

uhhuh take a humongous deep breath real

big and then exhale it out drop your

shoulders as low as you can go pull them down okay okay and here's why we're

doing this exercise this is what happens inside

your mind too yeah when you start researching

stuff isn't it it spins faster and

faster and faster and faster yes and then it feels chaotic and

then your daughter comes in and says hey can you help me with my lunch tomorrow and then you're off to the next thing

and this thing never resolves itself and it just spins faster and it's heavier

and heavier yes the only way I've learned

and and I'm like you I get pretty emotional got hard I don't have anything

like what you're dealing with at home but when I get emotional I spin and I go faster and faster and faster and the

only way I've learned to be able to walk

through those things is with other

people I have been Gathering my friends

and family I've um kind of explained

where I'm at but listen to me you're

doing a lot of you're using other people

and you're using your internet searches as Xanax yes you need to find somebody I

want a practical plan you need to sit

with a lawyer that you are paying that

you are on the clock with because that will force you to Laser in and say what

do you want to do next otherwise you

just have a bunch of people that you talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and you've got you've got to have a

you've got to have a gang you got to have people that will listen to you and that will sit with you and will show up with cast RS but you need to have somebody who will say here's what

happens if you do a here's what happens

with b and someone that will walk you through

step by step here is legally and

practically what happens

next yes and there'll be Financial

ramifications there will be um custody

ramifications there will be all sorts of

ramifications yeah but I want you to

stop spin in and sit with somebody and

by the way an some attorneys aren't people of character and they'll take your money they'll let you spend all day long and they'll just put you on the clock most of the ones I've ever met with care deeply about their clients and they will say okay if you're hiring me to go to war let's go to war yeah so I'm

gonna ask you what's your next move I I will well lawyer retainer um I

have a friend who said that she would help me get the money I have no money I have nothing in well that's my next question is my fault what does this mean for you because you got to eat

I'm yes and I um met with an Employment

Specialist um I had gotten a therapist

um and a psychiatrist um because I was

depressed and I um was undiagnosed ADHD

for many years and

um so you know and tell me about your

job tell me about your job oh she's so

awesome but but this is this is why I

need to go this is taking its toll on her and as he was sitting there yelling

at me I'm like I don't want her to think

that I'm sorry tell me about your job

not your child tell me about your job what are you going to do for money sorry if you leave um how are you going to eat

and where you going to live um I told

the employment Specialists we're meeting um next week to um help me with my

resume okay and um I am my heart is in

the nonprofit World however I told them

that my first priority is to make enough money for me to be able to live on my

own and support my daughter there you go have you ever done that before um lived on my own yes okay then

you can do it again as a student yes

okay I know I can do this that that's the thing like I know that I can do this

I keep tripping myself up I know I'm

worth more and um more than anything and

the reason I'm willing to accept Help from My Friends and Family financially

is that I owe my daughter

more and um part of the reason that I've

been also kind of De um not putting it

off is um I know um I know he's going to make it so

ugly and I know he's going to drag her

in it but I tell myself he's already

dragged her in it yeah and I've allowed

it and in leaving him I I think I hope

that that means I'm not dragging her in it I'm dragging her out of it and if he continues to Drager in it I will just

have to do my best to so let's let's Sol

that let's solve that problem when we get there let's do the next right thing

in front of us and Jade's going to walk

you through the four walls but these are

the things I want you to put on a list I want you to sit down with a trusted friend or or um a a a couple friend that

you trust that you can walk through what

this actually means because these have to be real numbers they can't be feelings and thoughts they have to be real numbers and I want you to sit with an attorney and if you need to leave and go stay with somebody because your home's not safe then do that right now

like today physically I'm safe I am

physically safe I really do believe that okay but not mentally okay yeah you know

when you get when you make that leap and

you you know walk out of this thing the thing you're going to have to focus on first is just making sure that you can pay for your shelter like you've got to

find a place that you can live that you can afford after that it's utilities

after that it's food after that it's

Transportation because you need to be able to get to work and back and so

those four things before you get off the line today we're going to get you set up with every dollar um and and totally for

free so that you can use that you can

start budgeting you can start looking at what your life is going to look like financially I think that you making this

choice I know you said you were worried about dragging your daughter through it but she's also going to see something really great of a woman who says I'm not

going to be treated like this and I get to decide and she's going to take that and carry that with her and it's going to mean a lot for her Soo tough stuff good job John we're

blessed we're praying for you call back

any [Music] [Applause]

[Music]

time this show is sponsored by better

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[Music]

you're listening to the Ramsey Show I'm Jade warshaw joined by Dr John deloney

today as we take your calls you can give us a call number is 8825 5225 get in

where you fit in hey guys all the time

we're talking about the steps and the

changes that you need to make in order to change your money your career your

mental health uh even your relationships

every single day because we know none of

it is happening by accident okay it takes intentionality to do this it takes

hard work so here's how we're going to

come alongside you and help you uh we're

excited to announce that today we're having a one day today

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this book should be like $100 that's

what I'm saying but you know what I'm saying and I love when Dave sells our

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purpose from paycheck to purpose and that's going to help you if you're you know kind of in a career situation if

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again one day only this is a one day

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sale ends today when the stock market

closes the I don't know if it's at 5:00

11:59 PM I feel like one of those floppy

guys in front of a car dealership the wacky wavies the wacky wavy so they're

called so they're called there we go at 1159 put the camera on thday a second

make it happen 10 bucks go get them y'all don't want to see my wacky wavy

they refuse there it is they cut away I know they don't

nobody wants to see that all right let's go to we should start a band called The Wacky wavies I like it that's an amazing

band slide guitar slide guitar okay

let's go Natasha is in Kansas City

Missouri what's going on

Natasha hi guys how are you good what do

you think about the band named wacky

wavy oh I don't know I'm probably not

the right person to ask that means we're

on to something I'm not a musician I'm

not a musician I don't know well how can we help you today um well so I just wanted to I

listen to the show all the time uh

longtime lur litter firstand caller um

so my husband and I have several rental

rental properties and a couple years ago

we bought a property with the idea that

his mom who was in the midst of a

divorce uh could live in that house and

obviously we didn't want to dictate anything for her but she's been living

there and she I think would like to stay

which we're totally fine with um but she

has approached us about maybe putting an

addition on the house um and I think

it's fine I want we we desperately want

her to be happy and you know we want it to be a blessing to her but um we've

never had a business partner in any of our like rental properties and so I feel

a little bit weird with the idea of her

paying for some portion even though I know she's living in the house so I just

wanted to make sure like I'd love to

just like give her the green light we really would be tickled honestly if she

it's a blessing to her and she stays forever as far as we're concerned but is

there anything I'm not thinking of you know that I should I mean listen I love

your heart on this I think that you love your mother-in-law you want you know to

her to feel like the place is hers um

it's not hers it's yours um is she

paying you rent or do you let her live there rentree no no she's not paying us

rent I mean we did we OB we we vetted

the property as a rental with the idea

that if she didn't like it we would rent

it out because we do have other rental properties that's part of our portfolio

so you're just using the other properties to to float this one or is it

paid for in cash so so we will have this

property paid off by the end of next year and we have one other we have we

have a total left of mortgages between

our between three of two are paid off

great five total properties they'll

they'll all be paid off in the next probably three and a half years so then

back to this idea of the addition on the

house um I think

because here's where I think I think if

you let her pay for this um and

something happens because no you know

nobody knows what's around the corner right there's going to be some feeling that it's her house and I put this money

into the addition and it just feels like

it could get very messy very quickly

even if you put it in writing which if you decide to do this definitely put it in writing the amount that she's putting

into it what would happen if the house

uh were to sell or if she were to move how does she get her money back that sort of thing um but more than that you

want to know what I would just do it's your house if you want an addition on it just put an addition on it that's what I

would do that's what I was that's what I was wondering should we just pay for it

I would and it's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law cuz here's what's going to happen by the way what's this addition for so it it's a cute little starter

house but I think she'd like a house

that has more room for her grandkids to

be over I mean I and honestly it's in a

great neighborhood we bought a little house with plenty of room like a lot of

people in the area have done additions so I think there's plenty of upsides

financially to doing the addition but I

did I have like this little bit of Ang like should we just pay for it yeah what

she want you're gonna pull out you're gonna pull out the back wall and you're going to find a ton of termite damage ex exactly nice her kitchen and she would

like she wants to wash her dryer upstairs so when she gets older it's not an issue which I to yeah makes sense

what what about just moving her to one of these other houses I was going to ask that same thing so the other properties

that we have we did offer to her

initially when we when she was moving

and she wasn't ke some of the they're they're all stairs they all have okay so

this is the only this one is a single family nice little ranch what's it going to cost you great neighborhood to do the

addition we haven't even looked but I'm

guessing I would I would guess we

wouldn't pay more than like 100 do you

have cash it's it's a two it's a $200,000 well we won't do it if we don't

have cash but um we we I love how you

said that you're like listen I would not

I would not take her money I would keep this clean this is y'all's place um and

only it's in our trust and we and we're

in a we're in a really good Financial spot we I mean we're we're several

million dollars now yeah you are yeah

job if y'all feel like you want to do this I would I would I would pay for it and I would not take her money and I would tell her hey thank you so much for offering but I want you to we want you

to live to be 125 and so we want to make sure you can afford all the way down and we've been blessed and we can do this it

just keeps everything so clean and it's

not you I'm worried about it's not your husband it's not her it's it's your brother-in-law who has a

gambling debt that you don't know about that turns to Su just we would not have

a job if every family acted like you and

your husband and your mother-in-law yeah

it always goes sideways and if every

contractor was honest and no trees fell

through houses and so I would just keep

lines as clean as possible or deed her

the house give it to her and say this is Merry Christmas and just make sure you

put it in your will that we get it back and do that give it away to her that's pretty cool um but I oh that's an idea I

keep the lines as clean as

possible okay yeah yeah that's what

we've like I said we've never had business partners or anything for that reason like we're The Entity we're the

engine even even when people call and

they've done all the paperwork and they've written it the right way there's still something that causes a saltiness or an animosity and that's why I said

before even if you were to do all of that it still doesn't make up for the

the feelings that ensue after the fact

and so I'm with John I would either pay

and have this addition put on with your own $100,000 cash or I would deer the

house and say hey really this is our gift to you whatever changes you want to make it's yours free and clear I I like

that idea you guys have done really really well um and this is the stuff

that we talk about you know you live like no one else later you're able to to to give like no one else and this is

giving on a whole another level yeah and

I just don't want to see next Christmas

there's a lot of tension because she's doing something to your house with money she doesn't have just just don't keep the lines clean cuz you love each other

yeah I like that this is the ramsy

[Music]

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what's going on you're listening to the ramsy show my name is Jade warshaw next

to me is Dr John deloney if you don't

know now you know you guys need to know

about Dr John John tell them about

yourself my name is

John my friends call me John yeah dude

my friends call me John my wife calls me John does anybody call you Johnny my

kids call me old man no I wanted to be

Johnny cuz a CED a kid but never stuck is it short for Jonathan nope I think

they were gonna call me Jonathan and my mom said when I was born I just look like a John so she John she called it

all right I like it all right she called it well he's the guy that's going to take the calls about your relationships

if you're dealing with things going on

in that side of things mental health

World wellness world he's got you covered I'm here for the money side so

if you want to call us the number is

88882542886 let me just say um John and

I have jobs because of you guys so we're

really grateful that you listen to the show that you uh listen on podcast that

you log in on YouTube that you pull it

up you know you turn the radio dial some

of you and you listen to us on the radio and we're really grateful for that so if you could do us a solid here and

wherever you listen to the show like it

subscribe and share if you can do those

three things it'll cost you like two seconds of your time and we'd be so grateful because when you do that not only does it share the show with other people but it makes the show more accessible uh the way the internet works

and the way all these things work together so that would help us a lot we know that you already do it keep doing it is what I'm trying to say all right let's go to the phone lines we've got Nick in Chicago Illinois shy town what's

going on Nick hi I was just calling because um my

wife and I are trying to St for a house

and I've talked to her about having a

budget and for some reason

she says that we can stick to a budget

and I have like just used my notes app

on my phone and talked about it with her but it seems like it's like $10 here $20

here $50 here and it adds up and I don't

think she really realizes it so I'm just

calling to like ask um how I can like

talk to her talk to her about it in a

way where like she can get on board and

then like how she can like stick to the

budget that wanting to stick to if that makes sense so there could be two things at play um it could be that the budget

is not quite realistic enough it could

be I don't know I always say that budgets should be three things detailed

realistic and flexible so just that

first pass here there's part of me that thinks it's probably not hitting the the

mark in one or more of those areas um

did you tell me that you're using the notes app to budget or you're using the

notes app to decide what to say to

her um no we've just written down like

all of our expenses and then like all of

our um how much we make and then all of

our expenses per month okay so that's

another part of this you know having the

right tool is what's going to make budgeting something that you can stick to and that you can do for the long haul

it makes it more enjoyable um it's

really hard to stick to a budget that's written just in the notes app I'm I'm

just going to tell you that so I think I

think here what we need here is the right set of tools and the right set of parameters and how to work the tool so

before you leave today I'm going to get you set up with every dollar it's the best budgeting app there is because on

it um it's not a Notes app it's it's a

really great app that you can have on

your phone it's on her phone it's working with you in time so if you make

a purchase on your phone she sees it on her phone and it's something as simple

as hey uh I'm going to the grocery store

I I just need to see how much we can spend and you open up the app and it says $300 and you're like great

and then when you make that purchase at the grocery store you spent $50 it

automatically goes into the app and now you can see now I only have $250 left to

spend so it's going to do that math for you and it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers I think that's going to go a really really long way and then

it's going to help you to see um okay

the numbers that we said are they

accurate like does this actually work with our life because it's possible um

Nick that she's going over budget because what you've said is just not a realistic amount could I be right about

that or yeah possibly I just feel like I feel

like just her like knowing like how much

is left or how much we like is in the

budget to like go out to eat and stuff like that like we have like a budget for that but I feel like it always goes over

um but it's also a Notes app so you're constantly like it's almost like an old

school Ledger that you're having to yeah

I gu you mean like the app or whatever you're talking about I feel like seems like something a lot more practical do

you do you all do this budget together or do you sit down and sit or

you tell her I I sat down originally and

wrote it out and we sat down together

and looked at it together and went over it together and agreed like hey this is

not right this is right and then we should changed a few things but that didn't seem to work how long have you been doing that um six months okay I give every

dollar a try and see if it helps next

thing I want to know is the area that she's go the areas that she's going over is it the same area as every

month yeah it's mostly just shopping and

eating out so you're both eating out or

only she's eating out or she'll um typically I'm like her

lunch break from work she'll eat out got

you okay so she's going out for lunch um

and then what's the other area you said

shopping like for clothes shopping okay

yeah so next question is what baby step

are you guys on

uh we're debt free um and we don't we're

pretty much saving for a house we don't

have any debt how much have you saved so far renting what how much have you saved

so far for the house um 24,000 okay good and what's the

goal we're trying trying to get it as

high as possible but our goal was

originally 880,000 and our it hasn't

really changed like the past like four months we haven't

really made any progress on saving more

okay let me ask you this I'm just trying to get to the core because I don't I don't want to say anything that's not quite right how long did it take you to pay off your debt and save up the three to six months before you started

this um most of it was done um most of

it was done by me before we had uh

gotten married so I feel I I we didn't

she didn't have any debt I paid off my

debt before we got

okay so she didn't have debt she comes

into this and it's like we're in saving

mode basically for the home okay um Nick

you keep saying we there's no we here you paid off debt

you you built a budget you want to buy a

house she wants to eat lunch with her

friends and buy

clothes yeah can I also ask another

probing question buy a house tells me

she's so passionate about it she can't wait to do it she wants to do it yeah but behavior is a language so she's being pretty clear about what she really believes uh what is the clothing budget

what is the food the out to eat

budget like we've said like a h for like

eating out for her we said um once a

week go out and eat and I said like $10

a week once a week that's what we agreed

on so $40 yeah and then what's the clo the $40

a month and what's the shopping I and then we had originally agreed on going

once a month shopping with a $50 budget

of that okay and what's you guys's income combined what's your combined income 100,000 okay I think that she

feels a little suffocated she's like we make $100,000 a

year I'm working he's working I want to

spend more than $40 on restaurants and maybe I want to

spend so when she goes over shopping I'm trying to meet in the middle cuz I'm not saying she's right and I'm not saying she's you're wrong when she goes over

budget for clothes how much does she go

over like she's spending like $300 a

month the last few months on clothes okay she's tripping a little bit let's

be honest about that so maybe it's hey I

noticed you're going over $50 isn't cutting it can we go to 150 can we go to

can we go to 100 try to meet her in the middle because what I think what I think could be happening and John you could

pop in here but I think she's like we don't have any de like we've got 3 to 6

months of savings I don't want to feel so tight I want a house but I don't want to feel so so tight there that might be

going on try to meet her halfway on that

and um other than that it's you guys

sitting down and having a a big kids conversation about do we want a house or do we not want a house and maybe it's

you rolling out the numbers and saying hey if we keep going at this rate we're

not going to have a house until the year

2034 you know what I mean and it's just you being honest about what's actually

going on and then you know see see where

it goes from there it's not easy these conversations

are not easy this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

thank you for listening to the Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network I'm Jade warshaw next to me is Dr John delone we're taking your calls and here's the thing sometimes you guys call we have a number here that you can um leave a

message if you have a question or something you want to talk about sometimes people call and we miss the call so if we missed your call sorry we

missed your call uh we'll get to it

matter of fact we have a voicemail here

uh from Meredith uh let's take a listen

I have a question about how' you go from

being on welfare to being in the baby

steps it seems very very scary to go

from being on food camps and Medicaid

and all of that stuff to switching to

paying for everything yourself not

really sure how to change that I know

it's a mindset but I'm not really sure

how to get from point A to point B

without hurting myself and my children

drastically thank you bye wow okay that

that's a that's a deep one John yeah I

like she said it's a mindset so I want

to separate I have a close friend of mine who um right before she had child

number three um husband left like was in

desperate need of support and care right so um I think we're I I love that we can

support and Care people who um find themselves in the margins when life happens right um I get a different vibe

from Meredith and I loved how she said it it's a mindset and there can come a

point when the world that we've set up

for for some of our our our citizens is

you know what you're never going to be enough you just sit over there in the corner we're going to Pat you on the head and well somebody's going to come take care of you cuz you you can't do this yeah and over a long period of time

you begin to believe you're less then

yeah that you can't 100% And she I love

this question she's asking cuz she's saying no I want to I want to stand up

and I want to be I want

to be in the driver's seat of my own

life and it's terrifying because I've

got this sense everybody's been treating

me for so long and I've been living this way I that I can't I don't know how I'll

never know enough I'm just going to hurt everybody I'm going to screw everything up and y'all told me to go sit in the corner and Pat me on the head y'all just y'all just send money in the mail and it's going to be all good and so for

someone to Merit the situation I think it's important to keep this one word and

and always keep this word front and center which is practice yes I'm just

going to practice it's a skill that I

don't have I've never done this thing

and I'm going to practice this and I

have to practice I've never had a high school kid I have one right now just

started I'm having to practice being a

high school dad because I've never done it before and I'm already not doing a great job at it right I've never been

the the the dad of a third grader I've never

done that I'm practicing a third grade

daughter I've never done that I'm practicing it similar if you've never

paid for anything and often this this

generational poverty can be generational right yeah you you learn that you learn how to sign up learn how to work the system somebody hands you helps you out

I've never done it before okay cool we're going to take we're going to take baby steps first thing we're going to do is we're going to learn how how money Works we're going to watch these courses we're going to get a job well you've

also not on had to had the opportunity

to like stretch your legs on it because if if you're in these if you're in these programs there's limits like hey if you

if you earn Beyond this you know longer

get the crutch we cut you off and I'm thinking that like follow me on this uh

in college I played volleyball and I was a middle blocker and I went up for a block and this crooked thumb snapped all

the way back and I tore the ligaments

all the way through and it was the most painful thing I've ever done even more painful than childb birth so I had this

guard that I used to have to wear and

after a while um

the trainer was like hey you got to take that guard off and I was like oh I can't

take the guard off like I'm going to feel pain I don't know like I it was it

it it was it made me so afraid to play

the game I loved playing without this

guard on because I was like for sure I'm going to snap my ligaments again and then you find yourself going up with two hands but kind of head in one halfway

yeah like halfway you're like oh you know you've got this and I'm like you're never going to know what you can do until you just up and do it you got to stretch your legs you got to play you got to take the guard off and see you

know she she adds a very interesting component here I don't want to hurt my kids right so there's a lot of weight on

that hey you just got to go you got to go do this but the thing is you're on it

until you're exceeding it that's right

so once you're exceeding it you're exceeding it and it's like okay I can do

more I can keep going I don't need this

crutch any longer it was their for

season it was never intended to be something that you had for the rest of your life and so I think that's the part

she's got to understand is okay this was

here to just kind of like raise me up a little bit and get me to that point but

I'm to that point now I can I can go

forward and you know I think you have to

be real about very very very real about

the dollars and cents we took a call earlier yes how much is my house cost

what are my electric bill what's my water bill what is my gas bill what does food in this house what's Transportation look like how stable is this job do I need a second job with childcare yes you

have to be honest about those numbers

and it's easier to say I just want be done with this great but you're not

ready math may not be done with you right same as we talked to people on the other side who's like I'm just going to buy this house math doesn't care what

you want to do right so it's being

honest about these numbers and then we're going to practice and you will

mess it up if you've never stretch your legs you're going to fall down that's

okay it's part of it that's why we have

coaches that walk alongside people that's why we have budget that gives you a good framework for it um and we'll

walk with you every step of the way but keep that word in mind practice any of us the the cool cultural thing to do now is

to scream and yell at people who are trying to change just beat them back to

the place where they deserve that's good

job I I see men trying to become different kinds of men and they are beat

up on both sides and what do they they stop I don't want to take it I see women same thing see those with the least of these those who are trying to learn to give so you're going to have to ignore

the voices and you're going to have to go do the next right thing and we all have to practice it's okay we're learning new skills we're going to go make it happen I like that that it's

good John all right let's try to take a call we've got Darren and Boise Idaho

what's going on Darren well uh good afternoon I've got

um a couple of questions for you I have

um a HELOC that I'm I'm paying on we had

we had some big issues in our kitchen

and we felt that it was probably best to

just redo the kitchen and try to make a

few different things work with it um we

had hole in the bottom of our oven so we

couldn't use our oven our cooktop wasn't

working anymore uh so we we just we

redid our kitchen what' you what was the

for amount well it was oh $40,000 okay

what else you got red did it um and then

we just we have our home that's it okay

we have our home on a 15-year mortgage

we have 180 188,000 left and it's at

2.25% okay

um so my question is this I'm I'm 53 I

um I'm I'm investing in my 401k uh doing

the catchup so it's like 30,000 a year

okay and I'm I'm wondering should I

should I drop that for a year and pay

off this seock is that gonna I mean it's

going to hurt me a little bit but you

know we're we're okay we got about we almost have $600,000 in our 401K yeah um

and then and so if I do that then also

then what is my tax liability because my taxable income is going to jump way up

and my my taxes are going to be brutal um it probably won't be that

that bad it's not gonna your when your

tax bracket changes your your whole pay

you're the whole isn't amount isn't on

that bracket it's just the amount that puts you into that bracket so you're not

going to it's not going to be a blood bath here how much do you

make um our combined household income is

is about 200,000 bro I here's what you

done you put your house on the Block for

a new

kitchen I I would get I would get you

put the house on the Block you went to the bank and said hey you give us a kitchen and if we don't pay you back you

can have our

house I would take my house I I I would

be much more concerned long term that

somebody else has the keys to my front

door then than not than any kind of

interest rate any kind of tax

implication do you get what I'm

saying but so you would you would stop

putting money into your form I I would stop everything and pay that helck off your house is on the on the chopping block right now the key here is Darren you really Dro back to baby step two on this we always say that if the HELOC is more than H is less than half of the

total value then it goes into baby step

two so you owe 188 the helck is 40 so

for all intents and purposes you're on baby step 2 and so that's us pausing uh

pausing retirement if you wanted to take

some of the money that you had in savings and put it onto this and then rebuild that up you could do that but you're back in baby step too um it's not

going to take you long to pay it off and rebuild your savings and get back to investing but that's the bed you made

and so you kind of have to lay in it and I hate to tell you that because it feels

not fun at 53 years old but you guys made that choice this is the Ramy show

[Music]

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

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today from the Ramsey Network it's the

ramsy show I'm do I'm Jade botw next to

Dr John delone and we're going to take your calls all hour long we're going to help you build wealth do work that you love and create amazing relationships

it's a live show so if you want to call in you can do that the number is

8825 5225 uh let's get it on and popping John

let's do it and I'll call you Dr Jade I accept that I no don't do it dude you

can get them online now it's all good it's all good it's a certificate

what is it called when they just bestow it on you cuz you did something cool honorary honorary yeah we had to give

that to James he wanted that so we hooked him up with that but Dr James child's yeah Dr James child has a nice ring to it Dr Jimmy C let's take a call

let's go to Denver and talk to Chris

what's going on Chris in Denver hi how's it going doing good how

are you oh doing okay um I'm on Bas step two

which is paying debt off and I've been

just attacking debt but I'm getting to

the point now to where

um you know should I start putting a

little bit into my emergency fund it seems like

every time I turn around right now I'm paying on a credit card and it's two

steps forward one step back because

there's a dental bill that comes up or something we have three kids okay um

um so let's talk about that a little bit you're on baby step 2 but do you have the Thousand saved oh yeah okay so you're you're

feeling like you just keep going through it and and then some oh yeah okay uh part of this part

of baby step two uh the huge the huge

Crux of baby step two is budgeting and

the way that you're budgeting and how you're kind of scanning the next week

and the next month and the next six months to make sure that you're budgeting properly um to try to avoid

some of these what now feel like

emergencies cuz whether it's Dental stuff or it's something with the car um

so a lot of people will utilize sinking

funds if they know okay like I'm going to have to take you know Junior to the dentist and it's never $100 right so

that's one way you can kind of start looking towards this another way you can look towards that is just to say not right now like if it's something that

can wait obviously if somebody's having tooth pain it can't you know wait but

there might be some of the things when it comes to Orthodontics and you know

Jimmy needs braces things like that that can wait so tell me more about the

emergencies that are popping

up oh it's just I

mean it's now that you've put it that

way it's just failure plan um you know

I'll be honest I've paid off in three

months I've paid off 30 grand worth of debt Wow way to go can I tell you can I

tell you Chris What I Hear are you you sound tired man I am are you exhausted I run I I run

a business um and I'm exhausted all the

time I work six sometimes seven days a

week last night I got home at midnight I

was up at 5 I'm at my stop um can I stop

real quick and just celebrate you man I I know that's not going to pay your life bill but dude we have a culture of

people who are sitting on their couch watching TV and posting and

whining and you are the man who gives me

hope for the world that my two kids are in

inheriting I appreciate that hey I'm

telling you right now brother you're out

doing it if I had a culture of men like

you and women like you we would have

literally zero of our innate challenges

right

now yeah I'm listening dude I'm I'm just

telling you just Dad to Dad I'm I'm so

proud of you I can hardly breathe man

it's awesome now you're getting me choked up how much longer do you got to

go uh I did the debt calculator and

that's the thing I did the debt calculator and um it said

2027 okay um February 2027 with

everything that I've got right now okay

um Consumer Debt wise um our mortgage

will be paid off and half of it will be

paid off in four years and the other half will be

uh 10 years so half of it in four years

so that's the 2027 are you including

half of it in

that

uh well half of half the mortgage

payment goes away we bought two loots I

see I basically bought two locks and

moved a mobile on it that I bought for

three grand and renovated the whole

thing and paid cash to do it so now we

owe we're not we don't do business with

banks um I don't have I have they did an

owner carry on my property and I did it that way so I

could pay cash to do it and have a place

our mortgage is 1,100 bucks a month okay

and what's how much is the other Consumer

Debt 75,000 okay and what kind of debt

is it can you go through it for me see

if we can truck for 62,000 that

I didn't really have a choice on

um tell me more about that $62,000 feels

like a lot of choices tell me what is it

I had a I had a 27 um I shoot horses for a living 65,000

miles a year on a truck okay 65,000

miles yeah 65,000 miles a year on a

truck um my truck blew up they wanted 30

grand Fixit it had 35,000 on that

um it was over 2022

right around there and there was Zero

trucks on the lot and they were wanting

more for some used trucks than they were

for new trucks and I work for very high and

people

that I have to be there it's just here

here's what I want to get to because I don't want to run out of time on you okay so it's a $62,000 truck what what's

it worth you owe 62 what is it worth I'm

30 grand up down on it oh gosh okay 30

grand upside down okay tell us the rest of the debt let's keep going uh I have

another truck that I bought

used by Ember talk right into your phone because

you're breaking

up talk right into your phone for me

yeah yeah go for it I'm talking right into it okay can you hear me y

y um there I owe 32,000 on another truck

what's it worth

uh I'm 10,000 upside down on that one

okay so it's worth

22 Yeah okay is it necessary for your

life or can we off haul it is it necessary for your business yes this is what I use primary

for my business I I wanted to stop driving the one that I'm 30 grand upside down on pay the payment and hopefully in

a year I can get rid of it okay it might require you switching

that ideal because it's going to be harder to get out of this $30,000 truck upside down than this one that you're only $10,000 upside down and that could

clear out $20,000 of debt lickidy split

if you did that if you just got a loan to cover the difference well my only thing is is the

other one that I bought is a

diesel my one that blew up was a diesel

and when the diesel blows up it's 30

30,000 plus dollars okay but there's no

I'm driving now is a gas truck and it

doesn't cost the repair cost and everything on it is hold on hold on brother listen you're creating a world where you can't win you're creating a world where you

can't win there's not a path forward without sacrifice here man mhm there's

just not we want you to win so bad but you're

going to have to make some concessions whether you stop doing high-end horseshoeing or you sell one of these trucks or you get rid of one of the Lots you're going to have to make some hard calls brother yeah you know what I'm

interested in talking with you more can you stay on the line so we can talk to you a little bit longer this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

you're listening to the Ramsey Show I Jay next to me is Dr John we're taking your calls matter of fact we just took a call from Chris in Denver he was telling us about his situation he's

$175,000 in debt uh and right now it's

going to take him until 2027 to pay it

off I asked him to go a little a little bit more deeper into the situation it turns out he's got a $62,000 truck that

he's $30,000 upside down on he also has

a $32,000 truck that he's $110,000

upside down on and I just wanted to dig a little bit deeper uh Chris does that

sound about right Bud yeah yeah that's that's about right

and it's not like we're destitute I mean I make really good money yeah I know you

do I know you do I I see that um I just

want to make sure that we're making the

most of this debt-free timeline because

you know you sounded so tired when you

called in and we want to make sure you get to the to the light at the end of the tunnel here so you're currently driving the $32,000 truck you're driving it because it's not a diesel truck and you don't want it to blow up but meanwhile you've got the $62,000 truck

sitting in the driveway what collecting dust so I want to figure out the right

Solution on that but tell me about the rest of the debt uh I owe um 40 Grand to the IRS

okay and and then I and then I have

uh let's see there's that that and then

I owe 11 on a credit card 11 on a credit

card is there something else uh 1304 I

think so maybe I'm wrong on the number okay because right now I've got right

now I've got 100 134 144 and you told me

you had 175

right yeah what else let me think for a

second here meanwhile that there's that well

you talk about that I think that's it

that's it okay so it's a little less than what we thought about um first

things first IRS has to jump to the top of the list if it's not

okay okay usually we talk about the debt

snowball being smallest to largest in this case IRS has to come first and

that's for anybody listening if you're in trouble with the IRS you got to deal

with that first because you no telling what they can garnish your wages and then that would really put you in a Dilly of a pickle as they say okay so

that's for I I've got an agreement with them I just make them I make them a payment okay but you're going to pay them more because they're going to be the number one thing in your debt snowball yeah okay okay knock it out as

quickly as possible yeah and I was I've got that

that that was next in line after the $11,000 credit card yes but now we're

switching that and we're putting the IRS IRS first okay okay got to do it

that way all right uh going back to

these trucks hey I really you got to

sell one of them in the one that makes the most sense to sell John cut in if you want to I'm just thinking about I

mean if you wanted to take the hit on

the $330,000 the $62,000 truck and just

say hey I'd rather owe 30 than than 60

you could I guess take out a loan for the difference and be on the hook for the 30

um yeah I let me dude I I are you

frustrated with us Chris like are you

frustrated with yourself no no not at all I I'm I'm I'm just trying

I'm a number I mean I know I've gotten

myself into this but um I I I I would

love to get rid of the the the $62,000

truck then do it head head over there if

your credit will allow you get a $330,000 loan for the difference and

sell the truck for $30,000 you're free

and clear I'd rather you owe 30,000 than

62,000 and you're it's it's going to

suck you're going to be like why but you

got to get out of that the only other

choice is to go and sell the $32,000

truck that you're $10,000 upside down on on that one can I ask you this how much

do you make brother like like what's

your what's your net income from your business alone my the whole

business is I

175,000 a

year yeah

okay and that's with that's that's after

all the truck payments and everything too I bring in a quarter million a year

that's your bottom line so why in the why in the world is it going to take you two years or three years to pay this debt off because I was it hasn't I mean if I

did more towards it but I'm just living

like I've been putting 10,000 a month towards debt and then I drain my bank account and then something comes up and then I got to put it on a credit card here's the thing I hold some of that back a little bit yeah I mean if you know a dentist appointment is coming for your child yeah with you own owning your

own business there's a there's a tension here between are you going toay pay yourself more and pay taxes on that and do all that whole song and dance or you

going to leave the money in the business and do it like that so I think that you have more I I'm not sure the workings of

your business I don't know if you're the only employer of your business but if

you have the ability to pay yourself more so that you can work through this quick more quickly I would do that I

would get rid of one of these trucks whatever makes the most sense whatever one you're willing to part with you've got to get rid of one maybe it's the $60,000 one that's probably where I

would start you've got to move IRS to the top of the list that's the prescription it's up to you if you're going to take the medicine or not all right let's go to Travis who's in Dallas

Texas what's going on

Travis hey Jade and Dr John how are you

guys today we're doing good how can we

help F fantastic I am super glad to be

on Dr John I just finished building a

non-anxious life on audiobook while door

dashing so excellent hope you're a

little bit less anxious man y absolutely so uh my question is uh

my wife and I are in baby step two um

we've got about

129,000 left to pay um we are

um so basically what I'm trying to

figure out is I have a loan that is a

it's a loan from a credit union from a

car that was underwater and the minimum

payment is

583 um and there's 5,000 left on that

however that is like seven debts down

the debt snowball uhuh and so I was

curious on what your guys thoughts were

in trying to pay that off a little bit

more quickly to free up that

$583 payment a month so you're saying

it's four debts down and the ones in

front of it have a lower have less money that they free up correct it's it's

actually uh well the IRS is on the top

right now um and then 1 2 3 four five six seven

it's actually eight debts down from the

top I mean the truth is the truth is

Travis a lot of the thought behind some

of the things we teach is not necessarily from a mathematical perspective that's the truth right um a

lot of times it has more to do with how

you're feeling and what makes you feel more motivated in a moment and so the

way the reason we teach the debt snowball is because there's something

about being able to check something off a list and cross it off the list and go okay yes I've done something successful I can keep going and so my guess is I

mean not a guess it's true the ones that

are before this $5,000 debt are a lot

smaller of debts and you should be able to knock them out fast they're $5,000

and lower right and you said it's eight

that go above that so I mean how much

could these debts be$ two and

$3,000 yeah so they're anywhere between

2 and 4,000 and uh you know so far we've

paid off about 30,000 since we started

with you guys in March um how much

margin are you putting every month what's your what's your shovel about

2,000 a month okay so 2,000 extra 5,000

total towards debt a month so in about

five or six months you should be up to

this $5,000 debt yeah if you're if

you've got a $2,000 shovel and most of

the debts are between two and 4,000 we

should be clicking up this basically

almost every month you're almost knocking one of them out and so I think

that's going to feel more gratifying than having the extra money there now

it's your life you can do whatever you want I'm not going to yell at you you're the one who has to sleep in your bed at night is what I'm saying but um that's

my advice and I'm I like the bur in your

saddle I like the fact that it pisses

you off uhhuh oh yes yeah I like the

fact that it's it follow it in order man

and let it just drive you crazy let it

drive you crazy and it's going to I

guarantee you if you don't pay it off early you'll get there faster than 6 months M yeah for sure yeah it's definitely

it's definitely got a motivation when you have $175,000 of student loans where you

started with and you know I've made more

progress in the past six months than I almost did in 10 years of course you did that's right that's right and so I think the next six months to eight months are

game changers for you guys momentum wise mhm there's a reason that we teach what

we teach we teach it because it works at

the end of the day it works we've been teaching this 30 years um not me but

Dave Ramsey the goat and I've just been here I don't know two years but I can tell you it works it works for me my husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt using the debt snowball

method listing those debts from smallest to largest making minimum payments on all but throwing all the money at the smallest debt this is the ramsy show

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

you're listening to the Ramsey Show I'm

Jade warshaw next to me is Dr John

deloney you can give us a call if you want us to take your call it's

88255 225 and we will get to you all

right John the live like no one else cruise is almost sold out can you

believe that I can more than 80% of the

cabins are already booked yeah dude so if you want to join us uh in March you need to secure your cabin today uh the

cruise really it's just the ultimate debt-free celebration that if that's the way you want to look at it um this is

for people who are on baby step 4 and

above all right so if you're on baby step two the boat's going to leave without you is all I'm saying it's not for you so D you straight up rhymed that

if you're on baby step two the boat will leave without you listen I'm a poet and didn't know it be rhyming all the time

all the time here we go join us and when

I say us I'm talking about all the Ramy personalities Dr John myself uh George

camel Rachel Cruz I'm GNA forget

somebody Ken Coleman the goat we're all

going to be there all right George George is uh he is campaigning for a

cannonball compet ition he is very small

but he is a mighty cannonballer so

that's going to be a key a key part of the week it's a speedo only Cannonball

competition that's what he's that's what he's campaigning for obviously Ken and I

want to wear well Ken wants to wear jean shorts I just want to wear regular regular swim trunks but we'll

get there we'll figure it all we'll figure out the logistics it's going to be a party no shoes no shirt and hey

it's also um because this is like the

meeting of this is like the meeting of the epicenter of the cult there's going to be many punch B bowls and ladles we're just going to drink Kool-Aid stop it it's going to be amazing okay wait a minute let me go back this is not going

to be K Kenny chest's Cruise as I may

have saying it's going to be blast

cultic Cruise as John has said why would you not come it's going to be so fun we're going all over the place it's going to be so much fun we're going to Turks and quos St Thomas Puerto Rico

Bahamas uh We've made this announcement

a lot of times that's why me and John are cutting up but it's going to be a great great time uh you don't want to

miss this we're partying with Dave come on you don't want to miss it you can secure your spot for 600 $ uh that's the

deposit uh before all the cabins are

gone so if you just like let I don't want to miss out put your $600 down um

and book your cabin today at ramsy solutions.com Cru that's the way to do it we'll see

you there we'll see you out there all

right let's go to the phone lines we've got Angie who's an Albuquerque New

mexico5 what's up

Angie hello how how are you doing doing

good what's up so I have a question

regarding my marriage so legally I've

been married for 13 years but um it's

been on and off for a while there but

lately um recently within the last three

years I have been living a silent

divorce with my

husband as far as um being emotionally

physically financially detached from our

marriage so I have a roommate now tell

me about that tell me about tell me about that choice why have yall chosen

that world

because there's no more connection there I know but like um there's kind of a

thing in popular culture to say like our

relationship are in its course I just reject that i i people at at the end of

the day they stop or one person just

gets off the train and the other person can't keep going but have y'all sat down

and had this conversation or have yall

just have yall just slowly let this

thing go out to pasture like right that's basically how

it happened we did not sit down for it

and um I've particularly asked for

divorce but he said he's not signing

anything so we just live like this the

issue around all of this is this is what I'm just wondering if it's even healthy to do this part here I know it's not healthy for me but from what the what

I've been looking for spiritually is what they've been telling me and what I've been you know throughout my research is that it's better for the kids to be at home and see both

parents even though we're living in this

situation versus being separated in

different homes that would be more harmful for them that is that doesn't even

understand how that doesn't even pass your smell test you know that's not true

and you're repeating something you continue to

hear

so do you think it's better for your

child to walk home and see two people who say we are married and your child is

downloading into their nervous system and into their heart and mind and soul this is what marriage this is what love love and compassion end till death do

his part looks like I know no I don't

agree with it but this is what I know

people are going to say what they're going to say you know well not

necessarily it's like you know the Bible says you you know once you get married you're married for life that's it you know your husband left you and I'm

saying this with all love in my heart he left you he just won't leave the

house well well I wish he would I I know

but he left you

we both did then you both left each

other and so what you're doing is you're playing legal semantics with the Bible

stop so I can't make someone sign you

know what I mean it's like that's there can be a no fault divorce and the judge

will make you sell your house and property and divide it

up and he will get whatever part is his

and you will get whatever part is yours and you will gone about the life yall have created for yourself but both of you are making a choice every single day and I hate to be so direct but that's the truth and what you're I what I think is

you're I think you are you're living a

life as a divorced person that's the word you gave me right well that's what

I mean so you've already violated this this biblical contract you're trying to stay like you're trying to stay true to

you've already done it plus most contract can I just say the

heart of a contract is the heart of the matter like when you get married the

piece of a paper is a legality but it's

more about you're saying I'm in commitment and Covenant with this person it's the heart that's really what is the

marriage like if we're talking about things from really like this biblical perspective it's that commitment but you guys have long since detached from that

so it's not about the the legal piece of

paper that's not are are you telling me the reconciliation is over that he won't sit down and say okay we've chosen to build this life and now we can choose to build something else no it's definitely over but again

my it's more towards what's going to be

more like a word what what what is just

going to be more I don't know uh

healthier maybe you're so far ma'am

you're so far past Health you're you're

so far past that and I know it's hard

because you're living in it you've been living in it for 36

months you're so far past Health a a

healthy mother and a healthy dad that's

the greatest gift for your kids and I it

doesn't matter rather if it's the same household or not regardless if they're going to be wonderful productive people

of society it just doesn't matter rather

it's the same household or not that's

just the bottom line no it's it's a this

is like it's a straw man so people ask

people ask me on my show all the time the the question is oh should we stay together for the kids no fix your marriage for the kids like that's that's a it's a it's a

false dichotomy like fix your marriage

for your CH for for yourselves and then

out of that repair your kids get to see

two people that got really distant but they made a covenant and they came back

together and if both of you refuse to do

that yes then your house becomes cancer

stop but it's not just for your kid it's

for you too and for your husband can I

ask a question are you guys living together peacefully or is this like the

worst no no I mean we're fine so you're

living together peacefully can I ask another question was there like a c like a cataly like was there a moment that it was like that's it like did somebody

cheat did somebody was there that big

blowup moment or did this just slowly erode over

time it's like I said in the beginning

so you know in the beginning of our marriage has been on and off because I had a child previously um and supposedly

he was going to you know love my child and everything and just throughout the years I realized no he resents her a lot and because of that it's just it it had

it just turned turned me off completely that so you're so you left him

no we're still in the same home no no no but for all practical matters you left

him right okay then call call a spade a

spade yeah I can't get I can't get that

love back it it's just not you no that's not true you're choosing not to and that's okay you can make that choice

no okay you can make if if if you're done

you're done you're done you're done I I don't I don't again I don't want that to

be the case but I also understand

understand if y'all both made a choice and let's make a choice then let's go ahead and call what we're doing what it

actually is we're doing this idea of a silent divorce it's like all hipster and

cool man you are untethered inside your

own home so you begin to come home and

you don't know who or what the energy in this home is going to be it's not safe for anybody it's not good be adults and

let's sit across the table and let's say if we've made this choice to end this then we're going to do the right thing the next right thing if there's any

chance we can choose to come back together let's make that choice and let's fight like hell to save this marriage but y'all get to make that [Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

you're listening to the Ramsay show next to me is Dr John delone I'm Jade warshaw we're taking your calls uh we mostly

take your calls it's a live show but

today we have a question of the day that's coming to you from why refi

today's question of the day brought to you by why refi so now we don't

recommend refinancing on everything but for distressed private student loans

there is y refi We Trust y refi because

they help you with low fixed rate fixed

interest rate uh they help you get a low

fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt learn more at

y rei.com Ramsey that's the letter Y

ry.com Ramsey may not be available in

all states all right today's question comes from Wyatt in California Wyatt

writes my wife recently asked for a

divorce but she wants to stay married

until she finishes her MBA

degree wow to complicate things my

family oh

nice to complicate things my family had

agreed to pay for her degree when she

started the program as an early inheritance for me oh this guy's is a is an honor

student I think she only wants to stay

for the free tuition what should I

do if I had a beard I'd be stroking my

beard on this one because this is

Ridiculousness I I I don't mean this to

be mean Jade but we're doomed just as a

society this is bananas bro your wife

left you she asked you for

divorce there's a there's a

[Music] word oh boy okay um dude listen it's not

good if you say yes to this you got to

bounce with an ounce you have to uh

brush your shoulders off she left you she left you and um there's so much complexity

here yes don't pay for the wife that's

leaving you that's divorcing you don't

let her take part of your inheritance I this whole thing is such a mess um yes I

would stop tuition payments how about that let's just start there for God's sakes yeah if you're not the gravy train

ends like at that point like if you if

you get divorced you don't get to say oh and will your parents please still pay for my you know it's like be it's a

Golden Corral and you cash out and you get your ticket and you're walking to the parking lot and then you see him bringing bringing prime rib you don't

get to go back wait a minute wait wait wait I'm going to back a truck up here and take all the prime rib out dude you cashed out you cashed out somebody else

gets the the prime rib that's right you left it's golden cral baby wow this is

this is this is a boundaries conversation I'm guessing John I mean

yeah there's clearly a lot here she can

you don't you don't get both sides of

you can't have your cake and eat it too if she says I want a divorce all right

boom and I definitely wouldn't drag the

in-laws into it no that just makes it

even more messy and if your in-laws hear the story and

they say well that's cool we still want to pay for her um for her

degree a they're they can do what they

want to do it's their money and B if it

is part of an inheritance then it will

come out of a divorce settlement so it's not just going to be free money it will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement and y'all will figure that out in court and I'm heartbroken

for you Wyatt that your wife wants to divorce you I hate that for you man I

just hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it yeah this is sucks and if I could be

ridiculous for a moment her timing was

terrible I mean like it she must feel

some type of way like if I'm like gosh

let me I want to finish my MBA but I

don't want to tell him I'm well there's also the other side of this that like Wyatt cheated five times and she finally

says I'm out but I'm getting my my my we

don't know we that's the thing about these questions we never know you could you know throw a lot of different

wrenches into this subject but at the end of the day it's like if you say you're done you're done here here's the best way to to think of it the moment somebody says I'm divorcing you from

this point forward this is no longer a

romantic relationship this is a business

transaction period it has gone we we we

got married we signed a marriage contract for this reason this is how

we're going to set separate everything it is a business proposition from this point forward when somebody throws the dword and says I'm divorcing you MH cool

then that's how we're heading along this moving forward can I ask you a question yep um I'm not trying to trip you up in

any way so on the show on the show we talk a lot about um money obviously and

we always say that you know one of the main causes of divorce is money fights and money problems you're a person who's in this

knee deep all the time is where does it

start I I think we I mean I think it's

both ends so we say money is a symptom

and I'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row yeah of just

whacked out just what's going on here we

say that money is a symptom and I think

it Contin so let's take abuse and let's

take just evil and put off to the side

that's outside the bill curve in this conversation right there's abusive people and there's terrible people we know that I don't think most people are

abusive most people are terrible I think most people are um

unintentional and they have a picture about what they want their life to look like and they just assume that the

person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture not

knowing that that person has a picture of what they're life is going to look like and vice versa and so here's a good

example in my house is something so tiny

that happened recently um we have two

dogs and then we just I got my daughter

a little it's like a gremlin dog so now we

have three and they fight and scream and

run around I got to where dinner time

was frustrating for me it just felt like so much MH and I wasn't being the dad

that wanted to be I was finding myself snippy I was finding myself just like hey can y'all once we backed out and my

wife and I and she's like hey man dinner's like a sacred time we always just come here and exhale it's where we laugh it's these three dogs that we took

from outside I run it around underneath the table we put them in a kennel now during dinner and man just made a clear

choice but it was unintentional and what

was happening was I didn't want to come to the table my wife didn't want to be

around to grumpy me so it's easier hey

we're just going to grab we're going to grab chickfila on the way home right and so it happens by teeny tiny degrees and

turns out it's the dumb dogs running around the table so it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying hey this is a thing for

us you want this I want this how do we choose to make this happen oh we can just do that that's easy it's a lack of

intentionality when you're not intention about your money then suddenly I'm buying this you're buying this you borrowed this I want to buy this and now we have two different worlds but we live

on the same couch and then it implodes

right so money fights are a symptom of

two people that have not aligned their pictures and not aligned their values

and have not committed we're going to sh we're going to forego short-term pleasure for a long-term vision of what

the world we want to to build together

and it sounds like they've chosen The Wrong Enemy to direct their that's right

their guns at right that's right yeah and so going back to the previous

call you make a choice you make teeny

tiny choices along the way that gets you

this final choice you do that with your money you do that with your physical health right like my buddy Lane Norton

didn't just wake up one day and win Worlds he started 20 years ago lifting

weights right every day I got to it's

the same thing getting back right that's

the beauty is if you will own you and I

both made choices to choose a miserable

marriage then you can both make choices

to choose something amazing that's that's what where the that's where the the light in the darkness is you can choose something else it's nothing is inevitable unless unless outside of abuse nothing is inevitable you can

choose something different together it's amazing I love that John see this is

this you add a lot to the show John and

and I love picking your brain on stuff

like this cuz you just have a different perspective um and by the way I believe

in people I really do man I like that I

like get in host with you um I have to I

kind of wanted to go to John for a minute but I also want to let you guys know before this hour ends that this

hour is about to end if you're listening you know on your favorite platform but

if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode

keep hearing from John keep hearing from me you got to head over to the Ramsey Network app in order to finish the show

um if you're on the radio you can you can just keep listening it's still going to play uh more calls are still coming

up we've got Christian from Madison Wisconsin we've got Carol from Sacramento we've got a a truck driver

who's you know living out of his semi TR coming up uh we've got a woman Ashley

she wants to know if she should use the money uh that she has uh to get a car or

to pay off debt so we've got really great calls coming up I'm going to pick John's brain a little bit more um but

again the Ramsey Network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey Show

like you used to like you're used to hearing so you got to go over to the app if you don't know where it is you can search ramsy Network in the app store or

on Google Play that's the way to find it

and by the way we're still working on the app we're every day we're doing things to make it better uh make that experience the best we can for you we just started this so it's kind of cool you guys are in on the ground level and we're here we're happy you're here with us uh but again don't miss what's coming

up next head over to the Ramsey Network app and it'll be me and John we'll be in our same clothes same shirt same pad

finishing up the show thanks for hanging

out with us this is the Ramsey

[Music]

[Music]

Show caller

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird okay I I I got nowhere to go so you need

to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

---

## 215. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 24, 2024)


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| **Video ID** | `BXg22CvpwTk` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXg22CvpwTk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:27 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause]

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey

your host George Campell Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book Breaking Free from broke and co-host of the smart money

happy hour Ramsey Network production

he's my co-host here open phones at8

825-5222 as an

electrician um doesn't have a lot of

debt but he is uh asking about tax lean

investing um I guess his goal is

obviously to make some more money but

also to get into real estate uh I guess

a little easier in a way but I just kind of wanted to know your take on tax lean

investment okay he's asking you about

it well he

okay so he's telling me what he's

thinking about doing okay how old how

old is he he's 24 okay all right um This

falls in I can explain to you what it is

and how it works and I'm happy to do that for the especially for the benefit of our audience but it let me tell you

where he found it he found it on Tik

Tock with the get rich quick easy

nothing down real estate people

okay that that's where he found

it because that's the only place anybody

talks about this subject and they do it

to get clicks and Views because it sounds amazing and it sounds too buy their course for $3,000 on how to get

rich buying foreclosure real estate and doing tax Lans okay right and by the way this is

the same exact line they used uh wait a

minute Kristen how old are

you I am 43 okay you're barely old

enough to remember infomercials you

remember those I do okay it's the same line they

were using back then the only difference

now is it's cool because it's on Tik

Tock okay and it's on Instagram and it's

on whatever but it's still the same

genre of stuff can you buy a piece of

real estate at foreclosure at a bargain

yes I used to do it for a living in my

20s and I bought a lot of real estate

since then that was distressed in one

way or another at a deal it is however

one property out of

200 we consider 200 properties to buy

one okay it's not like I walked out my

back door and the sun came out and I

looked over there and there was a foreclosure and I bought it it is actual

hard work expertise needle in a hay

stack okay can you buy tax leans and turn them into

real estate and into profit yes the

likelihood of your 24y old doing it is

really close to zero it's really

complicated it only works in a couple of

States here's the way it works some states will sell if someone's behind on

their property taxes the state or the

municipality the local Village or city

takes a lean on the property for back

property taxes they sell that to someone

in some states my state they do not do

that you can't buy tax leans in Tennessee okay but they they so if I

lived in Tennessee I'd have to be buying them somewhere other than where I live problem number one okay problem number

two is you're buying a tax lean okay now

let's say that you foreclosed on the tax

lean and the people that owe the pro

that own the property do not pay off the

tax lean and you end up with the

property the property is worth

$250,000 and they have a

$270,000

mortgage you know what you got nothing

honey nothing got you got a $250,000

property with a $270,000 lean on it you

don't want that it has no value okay so

you would have to find a property tax

lean that is delinquent on a property

that actually has Equity oh now we've

really made this difficult oh and wait a minute almost

all of these states with property tax leans have a two-year or a one-year

right of redemption now let's take this a state further you find a piece of property needle in a hay stack that actually doesn't have a lean on it

probably not in your state of Texas I'm

pretty sure Texas does not sell them and

so um then you've actually buy this

$250,000 property maybe it's only got a $100,000 mortgage on it

um now you've got $150,000 in equity but

you got to pay the $100,000 mortgage to

keep the property that you just became the owner of or they'll foreclose on

you follow me oh wow okay this is a

problem and then on top of that youve

become the owner of it but the the old guy that didn't pay us taxes has one year or two years to come back and redeem it for by paying the taxes plus

10% or 15% interest so you can do

absolutely nothing with that property except pay this mortgage payment for the next year and a half to two years and you're 24 years old this is

suicide oh yeah absolutely okay can it

be done yeah you need a real pile of money a lot of patience a lot of expertise and the ability to do a lot of

work to actually find this needle in a

hay stack um and so can you do it I've

actually bought two of these in my life I've owned about 2,000 pieces of real

estate in my life and I have actually

bought two of these and as you can tell

I've done it I know how it works it's a

freaking nightmare I'm not buying one ever again

I haven't done it since no thank you too much trouble too much risk da too much

time frame I hope I explained it well

enough that it sound does sound like a barrel on of Fish Hooks George so Texas has redeemable tax deeds so it's

different than you're right there are no you can't buy tax leans but you can get these redeemable tax deeds and you're right there's a Redemption period they can come back house they do sell

so it's a little yeah it's a little different but it does not clean the title people meaning if there's a

mortgage on it it stays there property

tax foreclosures in zero States clean

the title if a first mortgage forecloses the

second and third mortgage are now wiped

out it cleans the title you get a clean

title if you buy a foreclosure in a

second mortgage position you inherit the

first mortgage if you buy a property at

a tax tax lean sale or create a tax lean

sale you inherit all the mortgages

including the IRS leans from the goober

who also didn't pay his IRS taxes

because he didn't pay his property taxes you think these things might walk hand in hand you can bet they do I'm guessing

the house could be in disrepair as well yeah think we Haven paid any of our

taxes or our mortgages and we're so far

behind that and and then I'm going to

sit there and maintain the house pay all

these bills for two years and then he can come back and redeem the thing for

10 cents over what I paid for it no

thank you and if this was a money-making scheme there's going to be Banks head fund managers Real Estate Investors with Deep Pockets going after these got some

competition it's been going on for years

people and people I will say again it is

possible to go down this rabbit hole and

get out with a handful of money but it's

just it's juice ain't worth the squeeze

it's a 24y old got on Tik Tok and thought he found a way to make easy money and I'm just here to say no you

you'd be better off delivering pizza you'd end up with more this is the ramc

[Music]

show hey you you guys I'm not a fan of

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there look at the combined checking and

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

George camel Ramsey personalities my co-host today Ryan is in Grand Rapids hi

Ryan how are you

good how are you guys better than we deserve what's up so uh I'm about to graduate my um

with my bachelors um in computer

networking and I'm just looking to figure out how um if I'm good enough to

get married or get engaged I have about

3K in um savings I'm about $25,000 in

debt um so is um she uh and I just I

make about 800 bucks a week for right now but I do have a job lined up after I

don't know the exact pay but I know it'll be above six 2000 a job L job

lined up after what after I graduate when are you

graduating again December okay when are you thinking

about getting married this winter hopefully after

after December engaged after December I

plan like maybe like early um either

January or February for the engagement and then August for the actual ceremony

so by then you will have been working eight months at a $60,000

job m mhm and you have a $25,000

debt correct and um I just didn't know

if I should start attacking the debt first before I like buy a ring or do I

wait until I have the ring and then start working through all of the debt well how long you guys been

dating a year and a half a a year and a

half was yesterday have you guys talked about marriage at all a lot yeah what's

her financial situation um she is a CNA she works um

she works there and she has an apartment she also is about 20K in debt and then she plans on going to community college

in the winter to go for nursing okay so

what is your all's plan and view of debt

and budgeting going forward if you're married uh we're both we both listen a

lot to you um and I my parents are also

um like use your way to get out of debt

um with their small business and stuff so we know the right way to do it it's

just about when do we start doing going through those steps do we get married first or do we do it individually and

then get married and we know the we both

have the same philosophy of combine everything it's us it's us it's us not

you and me well each of you would be doing the

baby steps on your own and then as soon as you're married we combine finances and we attack it together and it usually goes faster at that point so if you wanted to say I'm not going to pay off the debt I'm going to save up to get a ring we're going to save up and cash flow the wedding and then we're going to attack this debt together you could do that as long as you're aligned on the

the belief and where you're going that's

all that matters I don't care how broke you are when you get married okay what I care about is where

you're headed not where you are okay now if you're broke and

planning to and she's planning to get broker or you're planning to get broker

like you know I I think I'm going to make $800 for the rest of my life um you

know I'm going to be her dad and tell her not to marry you m yeah until you get up off your

butt earn some money but you got a good job lined up you're graduating she's got

a career move lined up we're going to knock out this uh combined $20,000 worth

a debt with a combined $100,000

household income next year uh when

you're married yeah I think that's a wonderful thing so um obviously the ring

doesn't need to be anything super fancy but um you can always upgrade later yeah

well I did yeah Sharon Sharon married me

with a spec it was so small it was

unmeasurable now it was actually a point

2 three karat which means you needed a

magnifying glass to find the freaking

thing um we said it in the safe the

other day and thought we lost it it just

disappear it's that small well the one

she has now I've seen it it's blinging

it's a headlight now yeah but that's 40

years later and one bankruptcy later so

she gets whatever she wants now but yeah

you can get married by the way there is zero research on the size of the ring as

a correlation to the quality

and uh uh constancy of the marriage the

success of the marriage as a matter of fact there might be an inverse correlation so I thought I saw that with how much you spend on the wedding like

you spend an inordinate amount on the wedding could hurt the chances there's something there inordinate amount on the ring same thing but uh but there's no

there's no actual data on it it's just U

but lots of people got married with um

very inexpensive weddings and very inexpensive rings and have a long wonderful life together Barbara's in

Atlantic City hey Barbara how are

you I'm good Dave how are you better

than I deserve what's up thanks for

taking the call okay I um recently got

engaged um we're an older couple and my

fiance has a home um on a in a Shore

town uh he's had it for about 30 years

but he has a reverse mortgage on

it um I saw the paperwork

and he owed I guess it said that the

total for the the reverse mortgage right

now is about

386,000 that was in July good

lord well I'm not done um I know he was

in a lot of credit card debt but um

someone's helping him get out of

that um I saw him right in front of me

cut up one of his credit cards he works

four days a week he just got taken down to two days a week and is upset and

anxious and nervous

and um I think in New Jersey if I was to

when we were to get married it's half I'm a little nervous

excuse me everything's half credit cards

I guess this home equ see the thing is

is that being in a short town if he was

to sell the house he would get over a

million dollars for it so he could get

out of the reverse mortgage but he'd

have to move and he doesn't want to do that so he's trying to reverse the reverse

mortgage

now so my question is should I walk

ahead into this thing I'm a Christian

he's a Christian and I'm just not sure

if we should hold off on the wedding or

I would like to sit down with someone the two of us some realtor mortgage person that I know

rather than go with he had already gone

with somebody who I never heard of and I

think they're not even accessible you

know you get them through the phone or some you know something like that you're

so quiet well what is it you're wanting

to accomplish here I'm

confused well I want I love this man and

I would like to see us spend the rest of

our lives together it sounds like to me

that he has a pattern of financial

irresponsibility and not working much

how old is he 75 okay well that's understandable

then that he's not working a lot um he's

past retirement age so to speak um and

how is he how is if he took out a $300,000 traditional mortgage to pay off

the reverse mortgage on this property

how is he going to pay the

payment well I think that's what he's

upset about now is because he just lost

two days out of the four days that he's

worked and of course he has Social Security working those four days how would he pay that payment through that and Social Security

so he's making plenty of money in the four

days I don't think so do you know what

he makes what does he do for work I um

he works at a furniture store a seashore

furniture store you're talking about a $4,000 a month house payment here he's

going to lose the house so I think he need there's no well he wants to keep it

he doesn't want to sell it he has to sell it he's broke in

75 so you're going to be signing up for

some of this money stress and you can choose to do that I don't think he's going to be able to pay this thing off with his income and his

lifetime I don't want to do

that I don't want

to you know I I just when you get

married you're signing up for all of his problems and he's signing up for your problems not legally but

morally you're not your name's not on

the 20 years I've been walking with you and following you and I own my own home and

I have an IRA and I don't have any

credit card debt I mean I'm not so if you got married and you moved into your house and sold his house what's wrong with that he he doesn't want to do that he I

know he doesn't want to do that but he can't pay the

payment he doesn't have the money to

from from the sh don't care if he's in

the corner of the Empire State Building he can't pay the payment

it doesn't you no no nothing being on

the shore magically creates money into

your hand to pay the monthly payment you have to pay the monthly payment or you have to get rid of the property and so yeah this reverse

mortgagees bit him in the butt now

that's what it amounts to you don't get to reverse the reverse mortgage it doesn't work like that the only way you reverse it is you pay payments go get a

new Mortgage and pay that one off with the old one refinance it and then you've

got a$3 or $4,000 month house payment

that he can't pay that has to be solved

for both of your sales this is the Ramsey [Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

thank you for joining us America so glad you're with us George camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today we're so

glad you're here hey we're going on the

live like no one else Cruise setting sale March 22nd the 29th over 90

something per of our cabins are full but

we have a couple left if you want to come you can still get a suite on the

get a state room on the Holland America's uh one of their newest ships

and it is a premium Caribbean cruise

only going to be Ramsey people on the entire ship her and Kos Puerto Rico St

Thomas the Bahamas all of our Ramsey

personalities all seven of us will be on there all week long and my wife Shar will be with us the whole week and stevenh Curtis Chapman uh comedian Trey

Kennedy now this is a big deal Trey

Kennedy's like world big deal world

class chef from the Food Channel manit

Shan she's also a big deal and by the

way Steven K Chapman's a big deal and so

is Dena Carter and they're all going to be there and others all week long so

it's our friends are coming to hang out with our friends it's a good thing

Ramsey solutions.com Cru check it out

Josh is in Greensville Greenville South

Carolina hi Josh how are you doing good

how are you Mr Angie better than we deserve man what's up well um I'll keep it brief um so me

and my wife are actually in about 20K

worth of debt and uh we weren't in this

shape last year but circumstances kind

of changed for us and uh we've got three

credit cards two have pretty high

interest on them and we have a car that

we bought when we actually had a bit of money we paid cash for and my question

was do we sell the car to pay off those

two high interest rates cards and then

turn around and then throw everything extra at that other card it has no interest on it and it's a low payment

okay so wait a minute you were debt

free and then you ran up $20,000 on

credit cards yes sir and now you want to sell

the car that's paid for that has no payment in order to knock out some of the Cs yes sir okay why do we why do you

believe the stupid has left your

house well I'll put it this way um I'm a

Christian born again and I had to repent

of my money mismanagement along with

some other things um loving my wife like

Christ loves the church being one of the others I've kind of got a hold on that

one or at least I'm putting forth the effort not just saying I'm trying now

and uh TR in my heart do not want to go

back to where we were last year what did

you spend this money on

man well we sold our house we had got it

under a previous administration for a very low price obviously the administration changed and we were able to make uh profit after the mortgage and

everything about 990,000 and debt-free

with 90,000 in our savings account and

through pretty much taking that um well

it what 90k Josh what did you spend

$20,000 on with credit cards oh um so we

live in a rental and we pay rent by

pretty much working on it and what do

you spend on the credit

cards well about 8,000 of it was home

redecoration anding okay I don't know how you don't

own exactly and then the rest of it was

dumb decisions what happened to the 90k

in profit there ain't anything here that's been a smart decision what was the dumb

decision well pretty much everything uh

that we spent that money on was Dumb and

the bad thing is I've been a listener for okay here here's here's why we're

asking let me stop here's why we're asking this H if you don't stop what put

you into the credit card debt and you sell the car you'll

repeat the

pattern so right yeah so I need the two

of you as a couple to go through Financial Peace University we're going to pay for it so that you guys really

get a handle on doing a budget together

and not spending any money that you don't have and please don't ever spend

money to fix up someone else's

house ever again I agree ever again

there is no situation that that makes sense none whatsoever um I agree and so

um and anything we're going to buy from

this point for we're going to pay for it now what's your household in

come uh currently we make about

3500 a month yes sir okay and so only

one of you is working um my wife works part-time she

works mornings and then do you have children I watch yes sir we have an

18mon old and have another all the way

good for you that's exciting okay sounds

like you need to work on your income side of the equation too don't you yes

sir okay I'm actually uh trying to get

two part-time jobs as well one for the morning before my work or my wife's work

and before mine and then one in the evening as well good for you those applications are pending that's a good start and then we need to say okay what are we going to do that makes me 60 70 $80,000 a year what do how are we going

to move into that in the next year and a half to two years so we don't work part times the rest of our life to

survive right and I think you take your

side hustles right now and you pay off the 20,000 and you keep the car yeah

paying you know getting rid of the car it's not freeing up a payment and so all

you're doing is leaving yourself without a car without changing Behavior exactly

exactly so you hang on we'll have the team pick up and get you signed up for

Financial Peace University and the every dollar premium both is our gift now the

two of you as a couple sit down and work on that and that's going to tell you I got to work on my income and I've got to

work on my outgo we don't buy anything

else we can't afford cuz here's a sad

story I think I just heard we sold a

house made a bunch of profit and now we

have pissed it all

away that's what I just heard and so now

with a brand new baby we get to start

again and when we had $100,000 in our

pocket earlier 90 anyway so yeah the car

is not your problem honey your income is your problem your lack of management is

your problem and you're no you're like a

dog I used to have you don't have an off button for spending dog would eat itself

into Oblivion I mean you just if you put

food out it it would get so fat it was

just it did not have an off button for food it just eat and eat and eat some

people some people that way was spending you just Spin and spin oh now we can't do it anymore look at that and now we got the credit card looks like unlimited food to the dog exactly that's exactly right we just keep racking it up doesn't have an off button it will run your butt up into debt I mean it'll act like you're in Congress or something that's what's going on there Madison's and boyy

hi Madison welcome to the Ramsey Show

hi thanks for having me sure how can we

help um okay so I'm recently divorced

after 14 and a half years we have thank

you um long time coming but it sucks

obviously um three boys 108 and six and

I have 5050 custy um so basically we are trying

we've been trying to sell the home um

and both moved in I moved into a rental home and he moved in an apartment and um

it's been for sale for almost 2 months

and it may end up in foreclosure um we both don't want a

foreclosure on our record and

technically I guess foreclosure we could end up having to file for bankruptcy or something like that and my ex doesn't want to do that because it'll ruin his business and I mean I don't want to deal with that either what do you owe on the

house um 512,000 for the first loan and

27,000 on the second loan what's it on

the market for at 540 the lowest just just enough to

get out huh yeah we're pro we would

probably have to put 5 to 10,000 to

close on it um right now okay so when we

got the home I was making over 100

110,000 and now I don't know my I've

been dealing with a lot of mental emotional stuff and I don't have a stable I have I went from a fulltime job

to working from home doing my own bookkeeping what what were you doing at the full-time job um I was controller

then I was Financial accountant and I

was just way overworked and burnt out

and couldn't handle it anymore so I wanted to go back to working from home

and I if I was to guess if I was caught

up in on everything and not behind I was

I'm probably making four to 5,000 right now but I have multiple um monthly I mean but I have

multiple clients um that I could start

in October husband make uh I have no idea what he makes how

far behind are you on the house

two months okay the second mortgage

won't foreclose the first will the second mortgage will then come after you as an unsecured note you're going to be

bankrupt but you're going to have more problems on top of this if you guys don't get the house sold that is where

you are so I suggest both of you make

all you can make and make these payments till you can get this thing sold it's going to be a bigger mess if you don't handle it sorry

[Applause] [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

our question of the day is brought to

you by we why refi I'll get it out in a

minute politicians make a lot of promises and sometimes they might even keep one or two of them but if you're in

over your head with private student

loans you can't and shouldn't rely on

the government because they're private student loans contact why refi they

refinance defaulted private student

loans and they give you a low fixed rate

loan built for for you you can actually be current and stay current and get it

paid off go to Y refi.com Ramsey that's

the letter yy.com Ramsey might not be in all states

today's question comes from Ian in Maryland the Federal Reserve cut

interest rates recently how long will it take for people to see any real impact from that decision also my high yield

savings account is paying me over 5%

should I expect to see that rate to start coming down in your opinion which rate is more important to the economy the rate we pay to borrow money or the rate we get paid for saving money few

layers in this question let's start with the first one how long will it take for people to see any real impact from the

Fed rate Cuts well it depends on the

type of debt um mortgages are going to

take longer to be affected it's not a direct relationship whereas things with

variable rates credit cards student

loans car loans will be impacted sooner

rather than later well my experience is credit cards

don't move at all they charge a bazillion dollars in

interest and they will continue to charge exactly a bazillion dollars in

interest 18 22 24 28% whatever it is and

they don't move that up or down based on the Fed rate the Fed rate is what banks borrow money from other banks at it's

the wholesale banking rate okay so if your bank is paying less

to borrow money from another bank then

they don't have to charge you as much

interest on the debt that they are issuing so local bank or Bank

debt credit cards are not affected at

all maybe home equity loans might see a

little movement maybe car loans might

see a little movement as George said

mortgage interest rates are not determined by the FED at all they're determined by the bond market now they generally follow the FED but they're not

they're not directly connected in any way it's just trending prevailing

interest rates is all that drives that

and so a half a point drop by the FED 45

days before a national presidential

election [Music] H which basically does nothing is what

I'm saying it's not going to affect your

high savings account probably at all

half a point it goes from five if it goes from five to two yeah your high Yi

old savings account is going to go back down where it was when things were two right but right now you're not going to

see all it was is it's just great and

interesting political

timing when the economy is like probably

the number one political issue whether the

candidates realize it or

not it's not some of the other stuff

they're talking about it's the economy

we know because we're talking to you and

you tell us all the time the things I'm concerned about they're not talking about up there I'm concerned about $5

gas $5 eggs and 7% mortgage rates that's

what I'm concerned about and so this one

thing this move right here is is actually touching on the number one item

in the political landscape today very

difficult to find in history a troubled

economy reelecting a party to the White

House they usually get booted from the

White House they get their little eviction notice by a bad economy either

side Republicans are in bad economy

Democrats come in vice versa right we

see it happen all is that the old saying people vote with their wallet they do

what affects them and their house they do so that that's what this move is about and so the actual truth is um Ian

it's not going to make a lot of difference in anything you're seeing number one it's only a half Point uh your high yield savings account will follow it because the when your bank is

paying you to save money with them they

are borrowing money from you at

5% if they can borrow money from another

bank bank at 2% they're not going to pay you 5%

anymore so when the prevailing Fed rate

goes down lower than your high yield

savings account substantially they're not going to borrow money from you anymore because they can borrow it from somebody else wholesale cheaper but

right now the Fed rate is fairly close

to your high yield savings account even with the half a point drop so they're probably not going to monkey with it much but when you're saving money in a

bank remember what you're doing is you're loaning money to the bank at that interest rate

and that helps you tell why they're willing to pay that interest rate and uh because they're borrowing

money and they can then loan back out

approximately 12x whatever their deposits are

according to FDIC guidelines and so if

you put $1,000 in there that all if if

you loan them $1,000 at 5% that allows

them to loan other people $22,000 at

higher interest at a at at 7% on the

carit on the car loan and they make the spread on that and that's exactly how banking works it's really not much more

complicated than that uh bernon is with

us in Lexington Hi bernon how are you

not too bad how are you Dave better than we deserve sir how can we help so I'm a single dad struggling to

put food on the table for my

kids um I don't have any credit card

debt I do have a auto loan um that I'm

majorly upside down on um I've got about

$4,000 in medical debt

um and probably the most embarrassing

one is I haven't filed any taxes in the

past the this coming season will be

three years I just have not had the

money to file them and I'm tired of living paycheck to

paycheck ends are not meeting I make

about $80,000 a year I should not be

this broke I just I need some

help okay when were you divorced

um about six years

ago okay and you've never really taken

control of your whole life since then

it's all kind of just happened to

you yeah I I've I've never been taught

how to manage finances I don't know anything about it yeah but what you described to me was you've been

coasting yes just today you took a step

to try to figure out how to fix it but been coasting yes 0ar in the bank at before

every paycheck yeah and $80,000 you

ought to have some money shouldn't you yeah you should yes are you

self-employed I don't know um I work as a 1099 contractor yeah

okay that's what I meant yeah yeah okay so um well the the first

thing we do is we get on a written Game

Plan called a budget and we make every

dollar that comes in behave and starting

this month you're going to set aside

25% of every dollar that comes in to pay

your

taxes so if you get a $1,000 check

you're going to take $250 and put it in the savings account to pay your quarterly estimates on your taxes and

then you're going to do a budget with the remaining $750 per thousand follow

me okay you'll make every dollar behave

and you're going to withhold on yourself

because you have no money in the bank to pay three years worth of taxes this is a

problem right and I'm guessing you're

going to have somewhere around $60 80,000 in taxes on these three years

you've been making 80 a year of those three years uh pretty much yeah yeah okay so

you probably got you know 60 Grand going

to be old plus penalties right okay so now here let me

you have a tremendous responsibility as a single dad that people do not get put

in jail in America for not paying their

taxes they do get put in jail for not

filing them so you have 24 hours my friend to

get at Ramsey solutions.com and click on

tax ELP Endor local provider for someone

in your area to sit down and you get

those taxes filed I don't want you let

away in bracelets at

connect I hope I'm scaring you

2571 people went to jail last year for

failure to file it is a law it's a criminal law not

paying is different you can get away with not paying you can't get away with not filing get your freaking taxes filed

now and then get on a budget and we'll

walk you through the rest of this hang on we'll also send you a copy of Total Money Makeover and help you with the money part of this you got to get on this buddy

[Music]

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause] today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show we

help people build

wealth do work that they love and create

actual amazing relationships George

camel Ramsey personality number one

bestselling author of the book Breaking Free from broke he's my co-host today

and also the host of The George camel

show on the Ramsey networks you'll see him on YouTube be sure and check it out

open phones here at8

825-5222 better than I deserve what's

up okay so long story short I'm gonna

make it quick my husband and I are in our early 40s we did things a little bit

backwards but we're debt free now we

have about a total of 220 or so in

401ks however um about 125 or so is in

Old 401ks from old

jobs what is it or when is it um good to

roll the into rth so that we don't end

up paying taxes on Gross and requirement

on distributions when we get to that

point you're asking end a million

dollars this is great question really

smart you're on top of it kiddo way to

go so when you said debt free do you

mean your house no no no no I wish household

incomes what um about 130 okay all right so the

original question when do I roll a IRA

or a 401k an old 401k you can't touch a

current 401K into a Roth and create the

tax bill so we move $100,000 over there

we create a tax bill of

$25,000 okay now if you take the 25,000

out of the IRA and therefore only end up

with 75,000 in the 100 25 goes out for

taxes and out of a 100 right and you

leave 75 in there the 75 will only

grow it it it's a break even the 100

would have grown to enough to pay your taxes although you'd had the rmds so you

shouldn't have done that one so you

don't take it out of the actual account

to pay the taxes number one you would move it only when you have the cash

extra to pay it out of your Pock pay the

taxes out of your pocket that has the

mathematical effect of actually investing an additional 25,000 per 100

you follow me okay so if I move the 100

over and don't reduce it now it's

growing tax-free but I got to pay 25,000

in taxes out of my own pocket over here to the side you follow me correct so you

got to have that cash number one number two you need to have been debt free on your house before you do that because it's more important that your house is debt free than that everything's in roths but you'll get there pretty soon okay I think that was the question

my husband's a mathematician so like he

runs the numbers good and so he was but

we neither one of us grew up with any

financial literacy so we are kind of new to real financial literacy okay and so

we're trying to like that's where I think the thing was what what priority

does that make it do we just let it sit for now well this is not a a completely

a math problem it's more of a data

response okay when we study millionaires

we find that the first $1 to5 million of

net worth that they have comes from

their retirement savings and a paid for

house so we typically run into somebody

with like 49 years old they got a

million eight net worth and 600 or 700

of that's their house and 7 or 800 of it

is a retirement account you follow me

which is kind of where you'll be at

50 okay that's about where you'll be

what's left on the mortgage which is just um about 170 yeah so you're gonna

be out of that it'll be gone few few

years you'll have it knocked out so the element that that's what a the profile

of the typical person that getss the first one1 to5 million of net worth um

looks like is is that so I want to take

you there first and then yes you get all

the benefits of having all of your

accounts then when you got extra you got

no debt and nothing to do left but to invest well paying the taxes on a

rollover has the same mathematical effect of having invested so we'll do

the rollovers so like for instance today

I've been in baby step 7 for 30

something years and so I uh I don't have anything but

roths now so now you're just trying to optimize the wealth exactly exactly you

know when you get to my age at 65 or something I'm 64 um 100% of my retirement is in roths

so that does a couple of things one is

not only is it growing completely tax-free and say I live to be 84 that

money is going to be it's going to double like four more times if I don't touch it all taxfree that's pretty cool

I have no required minimum distributions

at 72 and a half now because the

government already got their taxes you

Ross don't have required minimum distributions only traditional so I

don't have to start pulling money out of my account unless I want to oh and

here's the cool part that I didn't even think about when I did all of it and but now I'm getting into it a little bit uh

when you have an inherited IRA you have

to pay all the taxes on the inherited I

traditional IRA or 401K uh in 10 years

under the new secure Act Grand leaves you a million then you got to pay all

the taxes on that the income tax not inheritance tax but the income tax on it

within 10 years so you've got to start

you know you got to start pulling it out and paying taxes on it guess how guess

what myair have to pay on the Roth zero

ding ding-ding so they're going to inherit

Roth IRAs tax-free that are going to continue

to grow infinitely tax free hypothetically if

the laws don't change at all my grandkids could inherit my Roth IRAs wow

can you imagine what they would be worth by then they might be the first trillionaires can you imagine what they

be what those IRAs would be worth by then all growing without the stinking

government's hands on it I mean I didn't

even think about how awesome that was I

just thought I don't have to pay any taxes but now I'm going to leave tens of

millions of dollars completely tax-free

that they not required to withdraw and

by the way they don't need any money they're in all good shape so they can just sit there and watch the stinking thing compound tax-free maybe even a

whole another generation that would be

super cool that's a cool ripple effect

because inherited IAS regardless of whether they come from your mommy your daddy your grandpa doesn't matter where

it came from inherited IRAs that are

wroth have zero taxes this is stinking

cool mathematically you math people

you're going to love that one yeah your your grandkids will love Love The Inheritance they'll love you even more when it's taxfree I'm just saying yeah

it's one thing to get a million dollars from Grandpa it's another one to get a million dollars taxfree from Grandpa

that's just different right there I'm just saying that's generational a Godly Man leaves an inheritance to his children's children why are we doing this we want to change our family tree somebody had to be old man

Vanderbilt somebody had to be old man

Rockefeller somebody had to do it it

might as well be you you can do it so

when she ask a question like that that's

why I think she's awesome well you're thinking so far she's a hero man and I

guess that means you're old man Ramsey

based on your own logic hey not my words

hey you just you you you had to twist

this to something ugly didn't you the

history books will reveal he'll be up there it'll be Vanderbuilt than Ramsay

you need to get me a Commodore hat there

we go I can see you with a monocle later in life you should consider a mon Commodore Ram a monacle I just I need a ship you'll be

so rich one I'm going to if I'm going to be a Commodore I go this is the Ramsey

Show

[Music]

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[Music]

George camel Ramsey personalities my co-host Liam is with us in Salt Lake City hi Liam how are you I'm doing well

how are you guys better than I deserve what's up so my wife started her business

earlier this year and I wanted to ask if

there was some things that we should be trying to help get the business off the

ground uh so far we've only done two

online orders and about 10 per inperson

orders uh we've been doing everything

from social media to in-person

interactions uh and we were we were just

wondering how we can uh help get that

business going what is she

selling so we're doing a lot of uh her

artwork that she does and also some

customized uh like vacation t-shirts or

family reunion stuff is this an Etsy

Shop Shopify Shopify

okay has she tried Etsy

uh she did look at Etsy but I think

Shopify looked a little bit better to

her based on what they offered uh price

per month and uh assistance and helping

getting the website set up okay I say

that only because you want to sell your products where your audience is at and

I've only heard people going to Etsy for these vacation type t-shirts and you

know artwork might be a different story depending on what kind of art she's making there might be a local community where she gets her start but this is

it's not a business where it's instant aneous money starts to rain down from the heavens yes I was aware of that I was

just wondering what we what we should be trying to help get to that

point what kind of

artwork uh it's just mostly stuff that

she does on a whim it's a lot of uh

artwork based off of books and movies uh

and then she does commission artwork as well so is this more in the kind of Pop

Culture world if she went to let's say forums where people love this movie or this book I imagine that would be a better audience than a random Shopify

store hoping people see it yes I imagine

that would be a good good place to start

yeah let's find some Reddit Pages um

let's find some Facebook pages where people are gathering as groups that

around um those types of

things

um okay yeah I I I think you've got to

find this is not something you have you

can throw a broad net on and get a good

respon get a good return on investment

with your marketing dollar it's going to

have to be very targeted and so um you

know we're always asking ourselves where

where are the people where's the customer where do they live who what are they on how can we reach them where are they and

um you know the uh

uh you know what's the demographic and

and uh like George said if there's a a

group of people discussing that movie

somewhere and you drop an offering about

that movie in the middle of those people

well that that's pretty much like piranha that's perfect right but if you

drop it into the general public 98% of

which never heard of that movie you just lost all your money your marketing

dollars and so very targeted very

specific communities that you're diving

into I don't know other than that um cuz

the problem with podcasts or social

media is that it's uh now infinitely

large there somewhere around 2 million

podcasts and uh what is there something

like 26 million Instagram accounts or

something I mean it's just um in terms

of people trying to do business that way

it's not so um you know uh um and I I

you you're you're you know you're lost in a sea of

nothingness out there in those worlds

has she found people who are crushing it in this exact space I believe she has yes I would

study them follow them befriend them

figure out what they're doing and try to replicate it yeah look at Best Practices

there that's a really good suggestion um

if there's an Etsy shop that's doing a

thousand sales a month a lot of t-shirts

on I mean how many millions of people got tshirt on ET my God if you're going

to Disney and you want you know the camel family Disney Vacation well I got

a lot of options when it comes to who makes that shirt a whole lot including

myself I can go to canva and make one and get the Walmart you know iron on and

do it myself so you've got to have some unique value proposition to go here's why mine is better my artwork is that

much better I personalize it in this way

so it's going to take time to stand out and she's going to have to do a lot of research and get involved in a lot of different groups to try to kind of infiltrate and say I have a great

product you ordered family vacation

t-shirts I have not I'm not the type let

me just say that I'm not the target demo for vacation I didn't even know it was a thing so there you go well you've seen

our debt free screamers they get the matching t-shirts a lot of them get them from these you know Etsy themselves that's where that came from and so you know this I think it's the crafty mom Target demographic that's you

need to find okay I guess I'm not going to give Dave

the matching t-shirt I made him this is awkward now yeah that's good George I'm

glad we got that settled open phones at8

825-5222 yesterday about taking over

ownership or um taking over the payments

on the Family Farm um however in my

current Financial State right now um I

don't know it' be a good idea or if it would even be plausible and I not sure

where to go with

it okay the Family Farm your parents

have it yeah it's in my mom's name and her

health has been going down here

um for the last several years what do

you do for a living and uh so I actually

I live in logistics and I found out that I was

back in an application process for the

police force so I jumped out of the

logistics probably a little too soon so

I'm actually in between jobs right now because I didn't want to be out on the road uh if uh law enforcement decided

that they wanted to pursue um or go on

with the application process

um Logistics had you on the road you

were driving truck yes sir okay you call that

Logistics okay all right so you you you

quit your truck driving job because you're hoping the police department comes through yes sir I have uh several

different applications out with different police departments what are you doing for income right now how are you eating uh I was relying on my savings

now I'm working on doing applications um

around town okay and trying to be home

for when they uh go on with the process

okay and your Mom owes how much on the Family Farm uh it's right around 40,000 okay

all right are you going to move

there no I'm not going to move there I

already own part of the property there

free and clear um and all was going to

do is you know take over where the house

is and your home or have a mortgage on your

home uh I rent yes sir okay all right

and so you're going to start paying her

payments either start paying her

payments or she's going to make the payments through me she wants it over in my name in case she has to go to long-term care and I'm not sure that's a

good idea to be honest but I don't know

for sure I need outside information yeah

yeah how much debt do you have

personally uh right close to

100,000 what kind of debt is that if you don't have a mortgage so um I was looking toh start

my own trucking business and I bought a

truck and a trailer that are up for sale now um along with some other stuff that

I'm working on selling and so the truck

that you quit driving was

yours yes yes can you not just start

driving it again until you get the police job I could uh I'm looking for some

local stuff yeah but everything I'm

seeing is all uh either going to be out

for three or four nights or well I mean

they don't give you like 3 days notice

on a police application they give you like 30 days

notice right but one of these is for the

State Police yeah and they do random

home visits they randomly show up and

and you're supposed to be sitting at home 247 no not not not necessarily

sitting at home but you know be relative

close where they can have a essentially

an inperson interview right right close they can come to you real

quick I don't buy this whole process no

I don't either I think you need to get back on the road and get to making some money okay no you do not need to take

over your mom's debt because know it will not help her with long-term care

okay uh you can if you move property to

hide it so that you appear poor to get

welfare nursing home care called

Medicaid uh they have a 5-year look back

and they will undo anything that happened 5 years before and if they

think you did it even before that fraudulently for the sole purpose of getting free care from the government when you actually had the money with your property to pay for it they'll undo it whenever they want to undo it under the heading of fraud so don't do

[Music]

it I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls

I have taken are from situations that

are completely preventable yeah and

what's so hard is I feel like one of

those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills I'm next week yeah how in the

middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reup it

because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if

something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking

the time to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so

that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our family's needs for

insurance for many years including of course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356

4282 or go to zander.com

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

Solutions on the debt-free stage Maas

and Sierra are with us hey guys how are

you than we deserve Dave love it man

where do y'all live L Lakes Minnesota

just north of the Twin Cities very cool

good for you guys so how much debt have

you paid off we paid off $38,000

308 how long did that take 4 years and

11 months 4 years and 11 months and your

range of income during that time um

155,000 to 190,000 wow what do youall do for a living we're both physical therapists oh

okay wow PT excellent so was the whole

308 your student loans basically with a

Sprinkle of medical debt in there wow

that was ouch yes ouch it was terrible

how long have youall been married

years how long you've been out of school

6 years there we go and almost 5 years

of that has been spent cleaning up the student loans yes so you had one fun year of marriage so far that's and a

great vacation to Nashville to do a

deam so you had the the honeymoon phase

of a year and then you woke up one day

four years 11 months ago and said we got

to clean this up what happened tell us what happened oh we're just looking at

this debt we had a minimum payment of $3,200 a month for 10 years yeah for 10 years and it

was freaking us out and uh one of my

friends who was uh like hey we're taking

this financial peace course and I'm like oh my gosh this is heavily on my mind

and so we yeah we took the course and I

was dead set and I had to snowball my

wife into it a little bit snowball dead

snowball did you not go to the course with him I did but I was kind of against

budgeting at first okay um it felt very

restrictive to be on a budget so 38,000

exactly it it was well which one do I

want yeah which which which of these painful things do I want yes so uh how

far into Financial pce were you before you said I'm on board Sierra oh um well

it took honestly it took about a year

before I was like okay I get what we're doing and why we're doing this okay and

so then I was like okay we'll do we're

just going to go hard game on MH okay

all right good for you so you made more than that $3,200 minimum payment you put

extra at this cuz it would have taken 10 years you said yes to the plan um six

to$ 7,000 must dou your payment you do

it in five under five years that's amazing way to go so you guys were like

living on very little even though you're making great money you were still living like you were broke college kids well we lived in his parents basement that that

whole time so shout out to them for

allowing that and are you gone now yes

we are out yes it's it's beautiful

that's got to feel good that's got to be feel as good as being dead free

yes it kind of feel like this is the

honeymoon now yes it was just

delay wow that's incredible and how old

are you two now I'm 32 and 31 all right

tell people what you think the secret to getting out of dead is well one of the

big secrets I don't know for me is just

like so we're Christians and just like

the Bible says um to be renewing your

mind with scripture every day um to

remind yourself you know of the purpose of your life and day-to-day actions I think that same principle can be applied

to this getting out of debt as well and

just kind of renewing your mind I think through the show or reading your books or things like that so you're kind of you're constantly reminding yourself why

are we doing this instead of inputting

other things like from Tik Tok or

wherever I like that make sure your

inputs are coming from good sources that

are actually improving your life right

what what was the why what was your why

your your big motivator that drove you

so hard uh we couldn't do anything with

that with that minimum payment we just couldn't do anything so we were like

Freedom yeah Freedom yeah I want out yes

yes yeah wow well um if there's a 25y old that's

got $300,000 in student loan debt out there talk to them what should they can

they do it and what should they do oh

they can do it it's just going to take a lot of dedication a lot of ignoring what

your friends are doing and ignoring the

things you want to do as well MH but

knowing that there's better things in

you know in the future we always said

sad now happy later live like no one

else so later you can live and give like no one else I love it delayed gratification you guys did that you lived on way less than you made CU I mean if you're making 10 grand and you're throwing seven at the debt and

you're trying to pay all your bills with the rest you guys really sacrificed but

it's gone now the rest of your friends they're on the 10 20 year plan and you

guys are free in your early 30s it feels

amazing now we're thinking what should we be doing with our mortgage payment with the money should we be rolling it into that what should we be doing now we

used to living on nothing so you take

that same Seven Grand and chucking at the mortgage you'll be completely debt free houseing everything in no time mhm

yeah that's that's a little intense we might lighten up a little off of that these two seem like the intense type if I lived in my parents basement for more than a think a month I might just go crazy so that's impressive that is it's

impressive for everybody involved well done y'all very well done proud of you

excellent excellent work very very good

stuff all right Maas and Siara from

Minneapolis man this is incredible what

a great story

$38,000 paid off in four years and 11

months making 155 to 190 count it down

let's let's hear a debt free

Scream 3 2 1 we're debt

free [Music]

y

wow you know I that's an incredible very

smart very wise beyond their years young

couple I wonder these days with there's

so much in our face about how bad

student loan debt has gotten we're up to

about 1.8 trillion now as you know and

when we did borrowed future I think it was 1.4 trillion or something like that

when we did that documentary a couple of years ago on student loan debt but I

wonder I mean because I'm convinced that

98% of the people that sign up for

student loan debt have no idea what the

flip they're doing and they look up get

married and they go I got $150,000 a student loan debt oh wait so do you

we've got $300,000 this the thir loan

debt oh my God and it's more than a

mortgage payment just to make that minimum student loan payment you're talking $3,200 if you told an

18-year-old that they'd go never mind I don't want to sign yeah wow well because

they don't you know number one we think about us we don't think about getting married and when you get married you double it uh Rachel was talking about

she was at a Christian College speaking and a little couple came up and said

they wanted to be missionaries and they'

got $180,000 in student loan debt and

she said you're kidding oh wait each of

them oh my goodness had $180,000 she's

like you're not going to Africa yeah I mean you're going to be

working you can't make that payment on

missionary money well not no oh my

goodness so it holds back your dreams we're seeing the stats that people are delaying home ownership they're delaying marriage they're delaying having kids all because of student loans yeah parents teach your kids to choose a school you can afford teach your kids to

go into a field at least they the good

news about these two Heroes is they went into a field where they could earn some money uh cuz they're earning you know

almost 100 a piece here which that helped the story considerably um and and they they they

woke up saw it and to their credit said

okay instead of reacting like a victim

to this we're going to react like a Victor and we're going to get in attack

mode and we're going to knock this out

that's powerful and we've got a parting

gift for them we didn't mention but we we got two every dollar premium subscriptions for you guys good for a year piece you can use those you can gift them to someone else because that budget really is the key it's amazing when you go we make 200 Grand where is

it going well the budget shows the shows

you the reality of those numbers and you go hey you know our bills are actually like three grand we could throw the other seven at these debts and what would that do that could get us debt free in half the time and that creates

some hope and momentum that's exactly what it did four years and 11 months Wow

way to go guys excellent excellent work

so that's the you know the moral of story is know what you're signing up for and if you find yourself and you wake up and you have that oh crap moment which

is kind of where they found themselves after graduation then you go what do we going to do we're getting in attack mode

and gazelle intensity they were willing

to do anything run living in the parents

basement that's the equivalent of run in this case that's that's hardcore that's

hardcore for five years this is the

Ramsey Show [Music]

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[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at

8825 5225 fie is with us in Houston

Texas Hi eie how are you I'm great how

are you better than we deserve what's

up um I was calling um

I um so the last two years I've come

been coming out of postpartum depression

I had a couple credit cards that I let

go because I well I was also not working

and I couldn't pay them um my husband

and me we do not we do finances separately um I know a lot of your um

listeners they you know they might be

doing things together but me and my husband have always done things separately um so his dead is his debt my

dad is my dead um that's that's wrong

you shouldn't do that

and um I I don't disagree with you but

um getting my husband on board for anything is always very difficult so

it's

w but I have two credit cards that I

could not pay while I wasn't working and

one of them in particular has been sent to a lawyer and I like I'm they're

knocking on my door um they're Ser

they're serving you with law show papers

exactly so I have um I mean our debt is

considerable considering we have you know we have a rental house um we have

our our PR how much credit card debt do

you have that we're talking about the

credit cards that in con that I'm most

concerned about um it's about 20K okay

what does your husband make and what do you make um so I just started working again

um all probably been making anywhere

from 70 100 um just but it's not 100

isn't guaranteed it's bonus got and then

um what do same about the same um how much other

debt do you all have in the

house um how much other debt other than

the house do you have no no no yeah other than house do you have a more car debt or does he have other debt that he has in his name or what yeah well his

yeah it's it's his name like he has his

credit cards I have my credit cards

cars um so cars together with the credit

card with his credit card or well if I

was to combine both of them it's

12 13 cars or300 a month I I know that's

bad What's the total loan

amount total loan amount

for the your car and his car my car and

his car is 11 1120 11:30 a month no I'm

saying the total loan amount is it $50,000 left on this loan oh oh no no no

no no um I have we both have about

20,000 left on the cars okay so you're

around $100,000 in debt as a couple not

counting your house and you make somewhere around $200,000 a year as a

couple that's about right and you have rental with a mortgage on it uh yes okay all right and you're how

old hun 38 and you have a baby and do you

have other children uhhuh a seven-year-old okay all

right

um and you've just come through two

years of really tough

postpartum yes sir yes okay all right um

you're the same age as my daughter who

has three kids

okay um and uh I think what your husb

usband is doing to you is

abusive that's hard hear yeah as as your

dad I don't appreciate it the way he's

treating my

daughter I'm pretty pissed at him right

now he makes a he makes a

baby his wife is in

postpartum and his answer to it is go

figure it out chick

you're on your own we have our finances

separate I heard in the that they said

for better for worse in sickness and in

health I bet by God when he has the flu

he wants you to make him

soup yeah so this is the core of it you

don't have a $220,000 credit card problem you have a very

serious issue in your relationship

and you guys have you guys have walked along you've walked through the forest with your hands over your ears going la la la la la la acting like nothing happened until something happened and

now the situation that you're in is

revealing how terrible your theory on

handling money

is so the two of you need to sit down

together and rethink your

marriage and saying we're going to love

each other in sickness and in health

we're going to love each other

for richer for poorer we are Mommy and

Daddy we are husband and wife we take

care of each other it's us against everybody else you're not on your own

this is not a joint venture it's not a

partnership and so you really guys

you've really got to Ser rethink your

theories on relationships cuz they're

broken and they're wrong and it's caused

you to be in this situation where your soul is unraveling I can hear the

fear and even almost a sense of shame in

your voice and you didn't do anything wrong other than that as a couple you've

run up the dead so if someone had abandoned my

daughter while she's in po postpartum to

her own devices who was supposed to be

her husband who was supposed to love her and care for her um he and I would

probably be having a discussion about that and it wouldn't be

Pleasant cuz it's not fair and it's not

right the way you're being treated is

wrong hun and I'm I'm begging you to no longer

accept that as okay so cuz instantly

when I take a $200,000 income I can

clean up a $100,000 worth a car debt and

credit card debt when we're working together in a unified

front how fast can we pay off $100,000

George making 200 12 to 18 months Max

yeah this thing could be 100% debt free

and yet we have service PE people serving warrants at your door and you

have a

baby and there's no

excuse there's no reason you're not

broke y just broke in it's just to see

my wife drowning emotionally with postpartum financially with lawyers at

the door and I go well it's her dad it's

her problem I'm not honey they're here

to see you what kind of man does that

I I don't know if I can call him a man

that feels generous there we go there we

go there we go so um it's a crisis folks

it's a problem I'm sorry hun we love you

we love him but we're ready to box his ears right now that's an old southern

term but um anyway not even sure what it

means but somebody's getting ready to get hit in the ear I guess but um anyway

my mom used to say I'm going box your ears what the crap does that even mean I don't even know what that means adding that to had my my ears threatened to be boxed several times I I'm still trying to figure out what trying to find my couldn't find his butt with both hands you never explained that one to me well

that's it's like Southern riddles I got to figure out that's um means you're

pretty limited on your abilities that

mean that explains it just it explains

itself oh fie I'm sorry hun but you guys

really if you guys you understand the

the math in your situation is easy it's

a hot knife through butter you can fix this very quickly when you fix the

reason that it's caused re what caused

it the the the problem the people

showing up at your door are not the problem they're the symptom and I would even go so far as to

be so bold as to say it has contributed

to your postpartum your depression and so um it certainly didn't

make it easier at a minimum uh no

question about it this sense of

Abandonment um and you're on your own

you know no it's not how this works

so um if you guys want our help we would

be honored for you to go through our classes I'll put you on hold and if you

want to sign up I kind of don't think your husband wants to sign up with anything with me right now after I just finished with him but I'm okay with that

too pissing people off is like one of my spiritual gifts cuz folks I love you and

we're going to do one thing around here we're going to love you enough to tell

you the truth this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

he

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

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## 216. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 25, 2024)


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:16 |

---

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today welcome to the Ramsay show America

thrilled to have you with us this is where we help you win with your money

win in your work and win with your

relationships the phone number to jump in for you Isle 8 825 5225 that's 8 8255

225 I'm Ken Coleman joined by The

Fabulous uh Rachel Cruz joins me it's

always fun when we're together uh we always have some fun calls she'll be our resident money expert today and I'm your

resident work expert otherwise known as

income I'm the guy to help you make more

money Mo Money Mo Problems Money Mo

Problems what they say so we'll we'll talk about those problems that you're having so we always have a good time with itle 8825 5225 you ready to go yeah let's do

this all right very good let's go to Stella in Tucson Arizona Stella how can

we help uh good morning thank you for

taking my call you bet morning in my my

time zone at least um I was wondering

how do I protect myself in a Family

Trust and I can give you a little yeah

tell us a little bit more uh my parents are putting their

property into a trust for all of uh

myself and my siblings uh it's been

mostly completed they haven't finished the final paperwork on it and I'm looking at finishing a house that they started on the property 20 years ago

it's going to be part of the trust is this a good idea and how do I make sure that like I don't get sold

out yeah so will you guys be splitting

their primary home then how many siblings do you have uh I'm the oldest of nine oh wow

okay so so nine of them will be

splitting the primary residents but you're saying on the property is another

home that's your putting money

into yes uh it's actually going to be

the primary home it's they've been

working on it for 20 years um and they

live on a second second home in on the

same property okay okay so with the what

was the what uh for you to be you're

using your own money to fix up this

property yes okay and what was the

motivation for you to do

that uh it's an amazing property um and

the house once completed will be absolutely amazing and we've been

looking at moving and for the cost uh to

finish out this house I I can't even

touch it to buy it okay property similar

yeah I mean I would sit down with the siblings with your well with your parents probably first and foremost and I would I would lay out exactly how much

out of pocket you have put into this

property and that you want to be able to recoup that in the instance of a sale so

if they go and sell the whole property and they sell and they sell both uh

structures if you will right um You

should come out ahead of your siblings

because you're upping the the value of

the property but it's within your own money so uh being able to get that at

least back out do you have good records of everything you've put into it uh we haven't started yet I'm I'm

making sure I okay oh so you've amassed

this money you've got all this money saved up yes and and and how much are we

talking about um to finish out the house we're

looking at 60 to 70,000 okay and how

much could you sell it for like how much would it sell for today versus if you fixed it up that's what I want to know

um well today with the unfinished house

I am not sure what the the value is

because it would based be based off the other home it's a four-bedroom home the

home we're looking at finishing out is an eight-bedroom home right but the question we're asking is and you may not know but this is something I think you can know is to sit down with a really good uh uh real estate professional and if

you don't have one Ramsey we we've got

some great options for you ramsy solutions.com agent uh Ramy solutions.com realestate

we got all these slashes uh the point is

you need to find a good expert to say if

I put 60 to $70,000 into this house what

do I think that is going to valuate the

what will the new value of the property be isn't that what you're getting yeah absolutely yeah and and so let me just

say with home run cuz with how old are

your parents sorry I have so many thoughts uh my dad's in the 70s okay uh

my mom's a few years younger and they'll be on this property until they pass

correct assuming so uh no my mom if my

dad passes first and he's got some health issues um she's gone she doesn't

want to be on the property too far out in the country for her okay okay that's good to know well because I was going to say just for your benefit if I'm going

to be putting 70 ,000 into a property

you know you want to run the comps and make sure that again not only do you recoup that but you get out of it to a

degree I agree um the value because C

you could put 70 grand in an index fund

and make 12% you know what I mean so like this is an investment that you're

making and that needs to be said out loud and I and and it gets messy because

it's a family property um but I would

get all nine siblings on an email and I

would get things in writing the plan of what's going down the more communication

the better so that's in my opinion how you protect yourself in the situation but I mean and it may just because you

love the property and you think it is a really great investment and you work it out with a real estate professional and you really figure out okay this is what

I can recoup and it's worth it on my end

for the energy the time my money yeah I

want to get a good amount out of it but also just no sell it it gets real messy

real fast with redoing properties period

because you're G to get in there and they're going to tear drywall down and be like nope you got black mold and it's GNA cost you know 20 grand more to do

this or that like it can get real

expensive real fast so just know that ahead of time it's gonna take longer and more money and then you put the family

Dynamics on top of it can I have a question it can get messy yeah Stella I may have missed this uh but are you

guaranteed that you're going to get this

house at some point I right the conversation has been

and I've included siblings in this and everybody's on board with us doing this

uh nobody else wants the property right now I didn't ask you I understand that I'm saying but answer my question is it guaranteed

and and and and if it's not in writing

um where is it in the sense that you

personally will take ownership of this house at some point in the future is that guaranteed it's guaranteed that we

can live there I don't have in writing

that it's our house all right I'm going somewhere with this I don't like this

move I wouldn't spend a nickel on this

you called to ask our opinion I personally would not put one nickel into

this home unless you knew and what I

mean by knew is it was in the will or it

is actually transferred to you I wouldn't put a dime into this I just

wouldn't yeah or you guys just outright

buy it and make it your primary res and

you put your money into it right and and redo that's my point I I'm I'm This Is

Me Maybe I'm too cautious I for all the

reasons that Rachel laid out and she's right why I guess here's my question

what in the world would cause you to put any money into this right now when it's so up in the air and it's just too

complicated and I didn't realize you guys were going to use this as your primary residence Stella I thought you were going to fix it up and then when they passed or moved on you guys as a group was going to sell it you're going to move into it save the money invest it

we're planning to hold the trust like nobody's planning to sell at least you

know but are you are you going to move into it you and your your immediate family you and your husband okay so then that's a different deal because now your

that you don't have real estate then under your name and as the years and

decades goes on and that value then then

there's nothing you don't have it you

know to your to your name does that make sense and real estate is one of the biggest parts of your financial don't do

it don't do it you if you want to fix it up and all of that and you guys decide

hey here's what here's what I'm going to recoup out of it here's the growth of it

that's the only that's the only way I would do it I don't think I would buy a

home unless I it was deeded to me and I

bought it out right yeah don't fix up a home that you don't own and the audience listen the audience

Lobby is agreeing with me here save the

money look at them thumbs up everywhere

save the money invest the money and then when it becomes yours Fix It Up watch

fix it up shows if you need to scratch that itch don't do it it's not a good

move sorry to be cranky this is the

ramsy show cranky

[Music]

[Applause]

k statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all I don't understand

this John why don't people want to take

care of their family they think they're going to die or something well I used to be one of those guys I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said hey the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term

life insurance that's a gut punch and oh

you're telling me and for for decades Dave I've sat across people who've lost a spouse they've lost somebody important

to them they don't know what to do next

me too I mean you're going to have a crisis here and you know you got two

options while you're sitting and talking to a young Widow she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's

concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow that's exactly these are the two options take care of your dadgum family man term life insurance can replace income pay off Debs cover funeral expenses so your family can

actually have the opportunity to just be

sad yeah to just miss you that's exactly

what it's supposed to be it's saying I

love you to your family term life insurance Jeff Xander and the team at

Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable I've used them personally for

25 years they're the only people I trust

go to zander.com or call 800 356 4282

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz joins me so excited

that you're with us by the way we have a fabulous fabulous live audience today in

the lobby of ramsy solutions and so uh

come on come all we'd love to see we just took pictures uh Rachel Cruz and I

uh on the break with some folks who travel from Germany unbelievable it was

exciting and they had cowboy boots on

and everything like there so Nashville

one guy was from Minnesota I don't know

how he got to Germany but we're glad he's back uh one one lady was from the

Netherlands maybe a couple and they got excited about my sweater cuz that's what the soccer jersey that's the official jersey color

of the Netherlands uh uh so anyway wow

you're so sporty so athletic I am just

call me sporty kin today just Sporty Spice over here uh speak of sporty

things how about smart decisions I don't know what the connection is to sporty there I tried it didn't work but here we

go so August Rachel we always have these great deals right and so we have a bunch

of great books on sale for only $12

including my book from paycheck to

purpose going to help you figure out what your path is to making money and

experiencing meaning and then your book know yourself know your money beating

that comparison trap that makes people spend money they don't have these are just two best sellers uh that represent

a lot of bestselling books all on sale

until August 31st for only four more

days my goodness $12 Ramy solutions.com

store Ramy solutions.com store that's

where you go get them all right Briana

is up in Tampa Florida Briana how can we

help hi um thank you for taking my call

sure um so I actually am trying to

figure out what I should do to kind of up my income I'm considering um

returning back to school but I don't know if that really answer right now um

mainly because I have so much debt that

I'm would like to uh pay off eventually

that's the goal um but I do know that I

have an income problem and I'm just

trying to figure out exactly what to do all right three quick questions and we'll dive in question number one um how

much debt do you have so I have a little

under a 100,000 okay we'll just call it

100K for conversation uh question number

two uh what are you doing for a living

now and how much do you make so I

personally make um $15 an hour I'm um a

thrift store assistant manager and I

love what I do um but I only am able to

work part-time that's what they hired me for um and I'm only making that $15 okay

third question what degree or or what

certificate what are you considering going to school for and what do you

think the potential income is attached

to that so um there's two different options

one would be I would have to go into more debt for sure for um and that would

be like graduating with all these bills

um from it and that would be um nursing

school okay and then and um with nurses

starting here in Florida it's about 75,000 a year okay um and then the other

option would be um to be a marriage

counselor and um I have an opportunity

actually to pay as I go with um my

Church's University and with that um I

would but I would have a bill every month that I would have to pay but I wouldn't be in debt in more debt at the

end of graduation Bill what would the bill be every month it would be

$185 okay and that certificate ban

through your church is that like an accredited uh program that you could use

you it would have to be a degree to do counseling and you could well that's why I'm making sure that it's not something within their church that you can only counsel in their church or something that you can actually use it out in the marketplace as well correct What's the

total bill on that how many years are we talking about um it would probably it

would be four years Alto together so four years let's round it up to two a month so400 a year so we're looking at

about 99500 some nine grand n plus okay

well so couple things number one um

you're broke and you make very little

money so paying for school right now is

not an option it's a pause right that's

a pause I do have other income though

just to say like my husband I'm married

and husb well what's your combined income sorry um so that is roughly about

I'd say $3500 a month what does he do so

he works two different jobs he actually

works at Taco Bell at night um making

$1250 an hour and then um during the day

he actually just started a job this week that is a full-time position working for LifeLock insurance um and it ranges just based on sales and

how many hours he works like he gets bonuses so it ranges from $13 an hour up

to 20 okay all right couple things both

of you need to be thinking about your

talent your skill set and where we can

make the most money with that so let me just take you for an example you're an assistant manager of a thrift store and

you're making $15 an hour and you're only getting part-time hours so you're obviously very good with people yes yes

okay I would be looking for management

positions full-time management positions

in a variety of could be retail uh could

be maybe an office manager I don't know

but the skill set am I organized am I

really really good with people and communicating and serving because you need to be looking at I'm talking about a Walmart job okay which is nothing to

sneeze at uh and let me tell you why I'm

saying Walmart as an example and I'm not trying to hang this on you okay but

right now you're only working to get out

of debt and save money and then

eventually fund your future that's the

order of this right now so let me tell you why I like Walmart okay Walmart is

paying for People's College educations

so you take that thrift store management skill and you go in and go I'll tell you what I'll take the graveyard shift I'll be a manager or I'll go in and I'll start here and I'll work my way into being a manager within six months or a year and I'm making 18 20 22 $25 an hour

somewhere in that range all right and

then they're going to pay for my college

and they'll pay for nursing school uh

this is happening with big companies like this I think target does it as well

check me on that but I know Walmart does it they made a big announcement coming out of Co this is the path for you so no

debt at all the rest of your life but

we've got to increase our income if your

husband by the way has basic skill set

you know what I'd rather do I'd rather him go to a trade school and cash flow through a trade school and he's not working at Taco Bell anymore he's working as an electrician or HVAC and

he's making 30 3540 $45 an hour if you

guys can buckle down and go where are we

able to make the most money in exchange

for our time and then you walk through

the baby steps and I want to Hint it to Rachel to walk through that 100,000 in

debt and have her cast some Vision through our baby steps but I just wanted to preach at you there for for a minute

and I'm preaching in a belief standpoint I believe you guys could be making way better money which will help you pay off the 100 Grand and I think if we focus on

that and you go to a Walmart or another

company like that that may pay for your

nursing I I I just that's coming that's

down the line it's finding other other

options too Brianna because when people say you know and I'll quote it back to you but you said the beginning of the call well if I do this right I have to take on debt if you took debt off the

table and just said okay so now what am I what now what are my options it's going to force you to be more creative to either think okay I need to find another job be patient and safe I need

to find a job that maybe will attri you

know could contribute to my tuition like what Ken was saying um and also being in

an environment Brianna that that has an upward trajectory which is why I like an element like a Walmart or something you can use the same skills but you're going

to continue to raise your income right

and so you know and not there's anything wrong with thrift stores or all of that but I think for a temporary solution it's fine but your long-term career path

for the rest of your life we want

something that you can grow into right and so putting yourself in those positions like what what Ken is saying

um is so great and and I want to encourage you too you know the the world today it is Shifting and there are still

jobs that require a college degree absolutely uh and Fields obviously

nursing you have to go get schooling for or counseling even but there's there are

many companies that are paying you know

40 grand 50 Grand a year and you could

be a personal assistant you can do online I mean you can find a niche

that's right that you don't need a college degree to just up your income in

general now you know our goal and what

Ken's goal is is to be able to you know find something long term for you that you love and are passionate about um but

I I'm with Ken I think in the meantime you guys can find some other options so hold on the line Brian Christian's going to pick up because I want to I want to gift you guys um Ken's whole assessment

and find the work you're wired to do yeah the and and his assessment to to

for you and your husband both to check that out and I think once you get those incomes up then you start really attacking this debt um and you do that

by the smallest amount to the largest amount so hold on the line and Christian will pick up and and get that stuff for you just quick perspective what can we

do to pay off 30 grand a year in debt

that's a goal that would get us to that 100,000 pretty quickly and then we can

move forward on the work we really want to do this is the Ramsey

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welcome back to the Ramy show I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz joins me and we are here for you taking your calls about your money your income your

relationships your situations around all

of thatle 8825 5225 is the phone number 8825 5225

John is up next in Orlando Florida John

how can we help today yes um my question is basically uh

to determine if I just have too much cash sitting in in in my core account I

own my home I own my vehicles and I

basically have 92% of uh of my invest of

my money sitting in cash or treasury

bonds how much is that uh about four 4,1

100,000 okay John hold

on little cough you have

4.1 million basically in cash if I heard

that right that's where they're sitting

in cash accounts correct in a cash account with

and then I well and part of that is a

million dollar in in a 20-year treasury

bonds that have bought over the past

year at an average of like 4.82 okay so

about three million is in cash

account correct but are extremely liquid

I you know well yeah so John how old are

you 61 61 okay um what's caused you not

to invest on any level whether that's

real estate or the the market um the

stock market like what's caused you not to invest I've been in real estate I do

have a few retirements accounts that you

know that are in some stocks like Google

and Amazon how much and I start

um the retirement total of 273,000 in

between a rough and traditional and set

okay so no 401K nothing like

that um

well I own some real estates that's will be paid off at that yeah I've not done a

great job with that no no no we're not judging at all we're just trying to get the full picture of the total amount of

money you have available and and so your

opening question was do I have too much

money in cash accounts and the answer is

yes you do we'd like to see you invest

that with our strategy yeah I mean I think you're still a young guy for sure

and I and and just being able to look to

say hey I you know with the the average

growth you know 10 11 12% um what that could get you you know

John your money making money is

basically what it is because right now when you say that that's all liquid is that sitting in just like a high yield savings or is that a traditional savings account where do you have that 3 million

it's like a it's like a Fidelity you

know they have these money markets and they yep the one I'm in Pays 5.27 right

now totally yeah and then the bond the

treasury bonds which has gone way up because those yields have gone down yes

you know it's at 4.82 y so I figured rather than taking

any risk I'm just sitting on the site making 5% right now but that's G to

change yeah but have you done the math

on the on the on the compound interest have you gotten the

game yeah um you're scared what what

what is your this is all fear and there's nothing to be ashamed of but

I've never talked to anybody that told me the story you just told me that's that's astounding it's truly amazing

you're certainly not h in you're 61 you

you got a lot of money in the bank you're safe man you're safe but uh you know you

called us are you starting to feel as though I should probably be investing a

good chunk of this or what where can we

help you because you're just afraid to death of the stock market and mutual

funds and the whole nine yards it's just fear that's driving this actually I've

watched a lot of the shows and uh the

mutual funds seem appealing okay well

we've got a strategy for

yeah I mean for sure yeah so I I think

John are you married yes yeah okay so I mean if I

were you tonight I think you and your wife go buy a nice bottle of wine

because you can afford it and sit down

open it up and you guys start dreaming

dream about hey where do we want to be we're 60 let's just say the Lord's been

good to us and we live till we're 90 we got 30 years what do we want to do with

this money and there's a really interesting book John it's called die with zero I want you to it I don't agree

with 100% of it but it's a very

interesting take oh boy on on and and I

think it leans more in a John's case

right if there is a lot of wealth um

what the role money plays in our life and what you want to do with it because this book argues which I think in your case would work not for everyone listening but in John's specific case

you know that that to enjoy your money

and it's not just spending it all but if

you have kids John and you want to be able to to help them you know do you

wait till you know you you're gone at 90

and your kids are 60 and they you know or is there stuff you can do now you know with them to to help that Legacy

happen in real time uh the the generosity portion you know charity and

and what you give to is there is there more you could be doing kind of in these buckets with the money you have today

while knowing yes you need to live off of this for 30 years um but but but all

I'm saying all that to say you're in a great position just to dream and we say dream and HD like put pictures to words

as Dr John delone said says but you and your wives tonight sit down and just say hey what do we want the next 30 Years to look like cuz the truth is John you get have this call and do nothing and you're going to be fine to Ken's point I mean

you're going to be fine yeah but but I

think also to say Hey what if we grew a

percentage of this um and look for the

next six years and we put it in some mutual funds maybe some you know um

growth in income aggressive growth you know picking out some good mutual funds have have good track records and putting a portion of it and just seeing and then you look up in 5 years reevaluate okay

we like that you know so you can you can step into this I think there's some personalities that are like put all the chips in the middle of the table and we're going all in and we're going to make you know 10 12% starting today and

you could do that I mean if I were in your position I'd lean more towards that but I think it's okay for you guys to kind of stair step your way into it but

but I would really advise you to um sit

down with uh one of our smartvestor Pros

with the smartvestor pro uh because

sitting down with an investment professional in general that's right is

going to be really helpful because also John what's playing in the back of my mind which we don't have time to unpack right now on this call but you know it it is the the tax you know implications

to some of this the estate tax you know all of that I just want to make I want to make sure that you're doing things

specifically in a really wise way that's

going to be the best for you guys in your situation um so if yeah Christian

can um Can can give you that link when we get off the phone and and and interview a couple of them if you if you if you have an investment professional that you love and you trust you know talk sit down talk to them but I think getting someone in your corner that does this day in and day out is going to be

really helpful because I do think I

think you can do a lot with this and I think your money can make money and again not just for the sake of like we're just going to build a bunch more wealth but to be able to continue to live a great and Rich life for yourself

and your family and others yeah and John I I agree with Rachel I think going to

sit down with your wife first and and

and laying out what you want to do with that money where you'd like to see it go have that on paper ready to talk about

when you go sit down with some of these smart Vester pros and as you interview

several of them and talk about it see what their plan is um and then you get

to pick the one you like I really like that but I also want to just hit something for you John and our larger audience Rachel and I just got an email

this morning that was forwarded to us uh

and it was it was from a a local smart

Vestor Pro that we know and uh in short was telling us uh

about a friend of his who passed in his

early 50s of lung cancera Al but the the

the point of the email was is that they had invested a decent sized chunk of

money for their son uh in a 529 in 2012

so here we are just 12 years later and

uh it was an enormous sum of money now

and what he said to us is they got 12%

return over that time period so over the

last 12 years that 529 got 12% return I

just wanted to highlight what Rachel said and John these are not numbers that we're pulling out of our ear uh to be

shock jocks that's a real life story and

I just want to underline that to say imagine the 5% turning into 10 to 12%

that's not a fairy tale and to Rachel's

Point what you can do with that uh over

the 5% I think that's Legacy stuff John

and it's really doable so you're smart guy you're incredibly disciplined and

I'll say being a being a Ramsay at heart

too being in the market but also real estate John you mentioned that you have a proper and if and I mean that's I mean

Dave's very honest on this show that's where a lot of his his money is is so so

there's there's different um proven ways

to grow your money whether investing

traditionally just in the stock market or paid for Real Estate um there's some great Avenues out there to make your money work for you and I think that that's a great goal so thanks for the call John we appreciate it pretty awesome stuff there wow $4 million in a

savings account what's your problem it's

pretty impressive this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken

Coleman Rachel Cruz is joining me this

hour 8825 5225

8825 5225

five all right we go to Atlanta Georgia

now and Jimmy's there Jimmy how can we

help hi thanks for taking my call you

better um I've got um I'm 63 my wife is

52 and we have a household metet worth

of approximately 2.6 2.7 well done we uh

got 400k sitting in a money market right

now and we've got five houses including

our primary which is worth about 750 we

owe 220 on it and it's at four and a

quarter perc interest and all my rental

properties are within a 15 minute radius

of my house except for one and I've just

completely remodeled it's over an hour

away I'm considering selling it doing a

1031 tax exchange and replacing it with

a house near me or B selling it and

paying my house off I like B can I do a c

I like another option I vote for B

Rachel wants to introduce C Jimmy stand

by I would do okay I would do both Jimmy

do you need the 400k um at all for the new rental that

you're going to buy Ian if you're going to do the exchange taxwise it's it's

going to be this close to the same value is that what you're shooting for correct

and not touch the 4 400k no I would take

I would take 220 out of your 401k or I'm

sorry that wrong hello hold on I would I

would take I would take

I would take

$220,000 out of your $400,000 that's in

the money market today and pay off my

house and have 160 in there do the 1031

exchange with the property get another rental close by and there you go you got

a paid off house you got five rental

properties paid for with 160 in the bank

and you can you can build back up 200

Grand a lot you you have Rachel knows

how to spend other people's money I'm telling you that is fabulous I like C

now I'm going with C would you not Jimmy why aren't you wanting to pay off your house well you know I just now thought

of that as you were saying that this is

why you call Rachel Cruz right here

Jimmy she knows how to spend your money better than you all right you just need

a third party to be looking into the situation where you think oh I had

thought of that no it's great great that's what I would do Jim now what do that does that remove the house that's an hour away though or yeah cuz he's going to he's going to do that anyway getting rid of that one so he'll sell that but at 1031 exchange you can buy the same one and not have to pay Capital Gains I'm telling you Rachel you take the rest of the show off that was such good advice I'm not sure you can top

that that that's about as good as your but I think you can do yeah you can do both what do you think Jimmy well it sounds

good I try that it's just a little

nervous about touching that 400k because I've been broke before I know you got a

little scarcity mentality in you Jimmy so here's here promise me this I want

you to do this I want you to do it this week I want you to pay off your house

and in in January okay we'll go through

an election all the you know craziness

of the world and if you hate having a

paid for house Jimmy I'm not going to give you permission but you could go get a helck

right take some money out put cash in the bank or we'll let you call Rachel up and say bad things about on the show cuz

my point is Jimmy you're not going you're you wouldn't go back and borrow on your home at 4% would youim that's

what this is I mean that's what it is and Jimmy what are the chances that you're going to be broke again let's let's let's handicap it zero zero

that's I was kind of gon to go there

so how much is your rentals bringing in

a month all five of them approximately

uh once it's said and done about 2 200 each so you're talking 10 grand 9 to 10

grand a month Jimmy you got more money

buried in your backyard than most people will ever make you're fine there's zero

chance of you going broke all right well I appreciate it

yeah she's going to get you a better return that's what she's good for you Jimmy I mean that's that's hard work Ken he's he's done it you live the American

dream are you where in Atlanta are you

uh North Woodstock yeah yeah yeah I

lived in Swani for for 11 years I know

where you were at so yeah so you're a baby I've never been in the the market

and mutual funds or anything and I had met with a couple of financial advisers that wanted me to sell the houses and put the money with them and that was kind of a red flag with me yeah Jimmy

you're fine you got property in North

Atlanta area come on yeah and but you

have you you don't have anything in the market no Roth or 401k or okay none okay

oh think money market is paying 5.34

right now it is yeah and your rentals are are great I mean I think um yeah I

mean if someone comes in it's like sell everything does that change your opinion no it doesn't change my opinion but I would I would say though Jimmy to diversifi diversification is always good

in general right so we just had a caller

uh last segment where we kind of talked about this where two great places to

invest long term is the market I mean on average

average 10 to 12% returns and real estate has great returns um both have

can can be volatile at different times but you write them out and you're good so I think you're fine Jimmy I I would

maybe kind of just Tinker on the idea putting some in like just a just an index what I'm asking you let's go back to your plan you spent his 400,000

really quickly 200,000 of it no but then you

said take the rest of that and get another rental right no no no no no no I didn't no I'd say leave leave 160 in the

money market oh good yeah yeah yeah cuz

I was going to say oh I see you did y

all right so so my question not pain

that of course I hate capital gains it

gives me a rash just say in two words um

I'm GNA have to Calamine all over up up to after the break here but the question

is shouldn't he put some of that in the investment I shouldn't he invest some of that money that's what I'm wondering Jimmy is that's what I'm I mean again

you're you're G to be fine but I do

think diversification is great so if you did want to look into and do some research and find someone that doesn't gross you out as a financial advisor

yeah uh check out a smart Vestor Pro and

and and again I would not go I would not

sell all your houses and put it in the market like this person said I would not do that but maybe there's an element

that you have some good cash or maybe you take a percentage and just put some

in the market just again the diversification spreads around risk and

it's it's you know it's always a good thing in general Jimmy you're getting a call all right Jimmy we're going to let

think we're great we're going to let you go Jimmy I appreciate the call I think that's that's awesome got a call online

Jimmy Jimmy is a busy man yeah yeah you

got a tenant online too the gutter it

fell off this morning we're going to let him get take care that's great it's also

that I love the like 1992 era phone ring

that that was interesting to me as well I bet it was a landline may have been a

fax no didn't faxes have different rings

than that yeah it was just a bad joke oh

uh okay but I really love okay backto

back calls uh I love this and I bet I

bet first generation I wish ask both of them I know we should have but here's the thing I want to point out I want your take on this I'm teeing you up because you were talking to Neil Cavuto today you're the big shot uh all right

everybody's excited about the five plus

plus percent but that's not going to be

that way forever right now because the FED has raised rates steadily everybody's getting that really fat percentage they like 5% here on the I

just want to point out that the long-term play right for a sizable chunk

of money is not your money market account that's correct yes and

interesting the benefit of rates being

high the benefit and the downside right

the downside is that rates are high so meaning when you borrow on money it's going to be higher that's why mortgage rates are crazy right if you go get a car loan right now I mean everything is just high percentage when you're borrowing that interest but on the flip

wonderful side those of us that are saving in things like a money market or

high yield savings we're getting higher

returns than ever I mean usually it's like 2% it was up to six at one point

and our high yield savings this is crazy

but it to your point it's not going to be like that forever right things are going to shift and as the fed and the rates start to change um you know we're

going to see some shifts so yes your long-term play for Building Wealth is not going to be in a high yield savings account or a money market account the stock market is up big time for the year

I mean we had that one big scary day

where most people who aren't veterans or

don't listen to the Ramsey Show freaked

out and then it's back and it's just

fantastic and so uh the the the compound

interest is your friend it is your

friend it is your friend it is your friend and that's what we're preaching you got to be Diversified diversification is the key that's what

we teach David's taught that for decades

any of the smart Vestor Pros uh that you

can get access to in your area this for a larger audience listening and watching right now if they aren't giving you the

strategy that we talk about walk away but they will and I'm telling you that

diversification over the long haul it is and man it's nice and it's 15 % of your

income into retirement you all that's what we're talking about 15% once you're debt free and you have an emergency fund

and then anything extra you have put it at your house once your house sells then looking into things like a like real estate paid for Real Estate is that next step so um but it's a great plan and

some people have been very successful so

great job with Jimmy that was fun to watch you work my friend that was well

played all right it's been a good hour

we got a hop this is the Ramsey Show

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today this is the ramsy show thrilled to

have you with us America we are here to help you win in

your life we want you to win with your money win in your work and win with your

relationships that allows you to have peace and to live with great purpose

8825 5225 is the phone number 8825

5225 I'm sitting alongside Rachel Cruz

and I'm Ken Coleman and we're here for

you this hour ready to coach some people up let's go to Crystal now uh who's in

the Big Apple New York City love the

city Crystal how can we help hi thank you so much for having me

hello Rachel Hulk and thank you I truly

appreciate this opportunity and got to

be here good what's going on your advice

too yes so we are a family of two my

husband and I currently we recently have

a combined income recently I mean in the

last probably six to eight months of

190,000 growth yearly 400 or 100 what

you say 190 okay perfect yes and that

would be gross okay so um in that

pandemic my husband and I had the opportunity to buy our first house which we did two years later we decided to

rent it out which we have we moved out

and we bought a condo recently four

months ago which we flipped and we were

hoping just to continue on to this path

uh recently my husband came into an

opportunity where he was offered a fully

remote job but it would be a serious cut

in our income and I wouldn't be able to

work as well because it would be back

home in the Dominican Republic which our

initial goal when we came here eight years ago was to hopefully be back home

uh with our family so funny is that the

cut is Big Time for living in New York

because it would be down to $60,000 gross and here in New York the

lifestyle that we are having right now our expenses being at $8,000 a month won't make it so even if

he keeps a 60k and I stay with mine uh

both of us won't be able to you know

make ends meet in New York until we

finally get rid of our debt or probably

sell both of our properties so what we

would like your advice would be what would be the wisest choice in this case

our rental income right now is on a month-to month and is

$4,000 a month and where we're at now

that house sorry has a 2.9% interest and

we owe 385 on house

and right now I estimate about 500 550

MH all right let's pause a minute

because you gave us a lot of details I

know no no no no you did a wonderful job

wonderful job uh my question is um what

would you need to make to live

comfortably in the Dr we're going to put

the debt aside because we need to remove the debt regardless of where we're living but what what would you need to

live comfortably in the

Dr so 60,000 would be the young

comfortable that's that's what I and and

then what could you do in the

Dr well I definitely my family has small

businesses over there so I can definitely pitch in but that would be something that I would have to re I have

to start from scratch well hold on a second I don't know about that what do you do now well I currently work for a

retirement company for a principal are

there any retirement companies in the

Dr yeah yes and no okay here's my point

you have a lot of transferable experience and I think I think it's probably valuable that you're coming from the states with that experience and you got

a lot of connections in the Dr true or

false true so this idea this notion that

your only option is to go work for your

family small businesses and start from

zero I think that's a that's not that's

not the right notion I think it's an incorrect notion you would you agree with that I would say so yes it would depend

where we live too I get it but my point

is is what's keeping you from going to the Dr and he takes this job but he does

it there are they saying they don't want

somebody on site they're only wanting a remote worker so what's keeping us here is that

we have the debt and we cannot leave

with his job only and pay off the debt

that we have now and we would have to

either we cannot rent this condo that we

just bought because we bought it at 5% down payment okay so let me let me jump in on that I'm going to tell you to sell that anyway you guys don't

that right now you're in debt you need to sell it and take whatever money you can make from that yeah how much would you make off that sell how much would

you make that is that is for this condo

we just bought it three months ago and

we bought it at market price market

value so we are gonna We either are

going to go negative or just go clean

because we put in about 30 to 40K to

make it nice okay okay and you I thought

you told me earlier that it was it was

is worth more than you you talking about your current home well that's the house that's the house is how much can you get for the house if you sell the house so

if I sell the house I would get like 500

550 I can push it to more but I don't

want to you know no no no what would you clear yeah what would you clear with

what you owe um so for the house only so

for the single family house that I have rented if I sell it I can probably have

150k okay to 130 okay and how much other

what other what other debt do you guys have So currently we have around 990,000 in

credit cards that would include the loan that we did uh to flip this apart this

condo and plus um some renovation that

we did to the other house as well so in

total we only owe 90 okay so you if you

well if you sell the house sell the house you clear 150 use that to pay off

the 90 right so you got you got 60 Grand

over here so I'm trying to understand Crystal you guys want to be in the Dr

right and that which that that's what you're wanting or you wanting to stay in New York for longer no we do actually want to go to

the Dr okay you go so then why don't you

go why don't you do that and then and I would not live in the and I would sell the condo too to you may you may have to

wait a year um for capital gains and all

that make sure you you look into that but I but I mean I I would go sell it

all and go pay off your Deb you said you

would live comfortably off of his 60 in

the Dr doesn't you don't even have to work necessarily I mean I would do something but you're fine no debt if you

do what Rachel told you to do so that's

the whole point of our line of question if you want to go to the Dr what makes you not want to do that or what makes you not do that plan so the only thing

that I would say is since we never put

any work in the Dominican Republic

buying houses or even buying we would have to start from scratch so yes we would pay the debt but we would be on

zero you have 60 Grand how much is real

estate in the Dr how much to buy a house

there well for it can cost 200 300,000

but you're but you're both living comfortably you said you could live beyond comfortably off of his 60 let's say you make 40 you guys aren't starting

from scratch you'd be able to save up for a nice down payment very very quickly with no doubt yeah you could rent in the Dr for a year yeah save up

and you'll have that 60 Grand which I want that to be part of your emergency fund but you're you got a jump start on a great down payment for a house you need 5% is what we

recommend well in the Dr they don't have

5% is 30% down again you're still F and

they don't have but even

but even if you had to rent Crystal at the in the Dr for two years three years

that'd be okay right I it's where you guys want to be yeah I mean I would do

it I'd sell everything in New York i'

pay off the credit cards and I'd go to the Dr he's got a 60 Grand job it's

awesome and then if you make anything on

top of that that's just yeah I was just there it's a lovely country that's your dream why delay the dream we Rachel and

I can't figure out one reason why you would delay it in fact I think you put it at risk the more you mess around with

this Current financial situation get out of this deal and get home my goodness

this is a no-brainer I love this idea

move with you Crystal he's moving with you I love the Dr this is the ramsy

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz is along side

excited that you are with us taking your questions about your money your income

and your relationships 88255 225 Jim is up in Phoenix Arizona

Jim how can we help today hi there uh so I've been working

with RV rentals for the past two years

and I have no debt I'm looking to maybe

well here's the situation so I've been

managing a subcontract for another guy

in town uh so he works for basically

Cruise America I manage the RVs for him

he makes a commission check he wants to

get rid of the subcontract I'm looking to take it over uh but if I'm not able

to take over this subcontract not able to find a good commercial location to run it out of uh I was thinking about

kind of running my own rental business because I've been doing this for a couple years now I kind of know the ins

and outs of the RV business I was thinking about maybe buying my first starvie with cash uh renting it out and

then once I have enough money saved up from the profit from that I can buy the next one so on so forth so cash all the

way through that would be the Hope what's

the what's the margin on that stuff Jim I don't know much about RVs and rentals and all of that when you um especially

if you're the owner of it what is what what are the numbers around it how much are they and how much could you rent it

for so I would probably want to go for

something 2019 or newer uh probably not

brand new class C uh motor home we're looking about 7 well

let's say 60 to 90 grand for each RV

what's the margin though that's what she's getting at so what's the margin you rent how how often can you rent it out what do you think you'll make a year on it the busy season is is basically from

basically from May to September so it's

about a six-month period about 180 days

out of the year uh making about $150 an

hour or excuse me $150 a day um so I

think that works out to maybe about 30 grand a year for a single RV uh and then

margin after you know fixes

repairs um housekeeping all the fun

stuff that goes with rentals uh I think

I think it's about a 15 20% margin is

what you make okay um

H and yeah and this is something you you

want to do I mean I guess I'm not a fan

of it as a business model that's why I'm

driving on yeah and the the the idea of

owning an asset that's going down in value like plummeting year after year

after year I mean when you get done with it it's not like oh you have a pay you have a real estate that's gone up yeah

you got to buy another one it's gone down you know in in value um so I mean

the numbers in my head I mean you've been doing it for two years so honestly Jim you're from that standpoint you know more than I do about this world but it sounds like your investment could be better spent somewhere else do you

think oh perhaps I guess I mean um I

don't know I've I've done a lots of jobs

gone back and back and forth here and there done this and that and uh I

actually actually kind of like this industry okay um why I'm leaning towards

it well again if you do it with

cash yeah there's not a there's no risk

in it right well I mean again it's just

the you're burning through so what's the life cycle of a of an RV before you have

to sell it for pennies on the dollar

have you thought through that because that to Rachel's Point you're not going into debt and you said I hope so our

deal is you're not going to go into debt for this that would be I think it would be catastrophically bad idea to go into

debt for RV rentals yes so the question

is what's the life cycle when you buy one of these things before you pretty

how many years can you get out of it in other words rental money yeah I would say five five is

probably the max if you're buying it brand new uh and then otherwise I would

probably retire them at 130,000 miles okay I could be doing my math wrong Jim so in that case so if you bought a $70,000 one yeah that's and you're

making 30 on it a year but you're only

getting a 15

20% rate of return back right I mean

that's that's that's that's 10,000 so in

the years that would that would take seven years to recoup that 70 grand I

don't know mathematically if it makes sense and and Jim I am sorry that's why

I've been digging and ask guess you could sell it eventually but what it would be what it would be worth in seven years what are you going to sell it for in five years right so if I bought it for 70

it'd probably be worth like 30 this is not in my mind a good

business I'm not trying to be Shark Tank

guy but I wouldn't invest in this I

don't think it's I think I think for the

margins plus all the stuff that Rachel

just I mean it just doesn't feel right I

know you you would make 10 grand at the

end of five years though right if the math is if the math is going through you buy it for 70 you're making 30 you make

15 to 20% right 10,000 after 5 years

that's 50,000 you sell it for 30 that's

$80,000 so you put $70,000 into

something and after five years you make

$10,000 versus if you put 70 grand into

an index fund do you know what I mean I'm just I'm trying to get I'm trying to help you more money make more money on

your money um it's got a lot of risk

associated with it too we're not even getting into I'm not trying to be Mr you

know Droopy Dog but I wasn't that the

name of that dog that always had the pouty attitude droopy it James somebody help she's too

young anyway Sno was the Charli brown dog no not Snoopy there was a dog named droopy he was just thank you the audience you know what I'm talking about okay great here's the point I'm not trying to be depressing but Jim there is

so much risk associated with this it's

not a good business model I'm out well

it's not even I wouldn't do it it's not even risk on my end it's just the numbers as you just lay out the numbers

I said numbers plus risk okay I'm saying

all of it combined we walk through the numbers it's not a solid business model

and then on top of that there's so much more risk yeah with the things breaking

down and the I'm just saying it's it's

not I wouldn't do it Jim so sorry gosh I

know you were hoping for a better

answer no I wanted an honest answer so

that that's uh helpful yeah can I can I

address something I think that you think

that this is the only thing you can do

is that

true uh it's the thing I'm feel most

comfortable doing right now for sure all

right I'm saying you're successful

you're making good money now and and selling these things or whatever it is that you're in I just I want you to look for a better business idea don't be discouraged is my point yeah and I think

the line of work you're in is is fine I

think it's when you start going into the ownership route that's where the numbers start to play out to be like uh you know if you're making a cut of the rental

thing and that's your and that's your job right I mean like that you're making money you're not owning the asset and I think because the asset goes down in value so fast um that's what makes it

difficult but to but to your point Ken uh Jim if you hang on the line Christian

um can pick up and I'm going to give you out your assessment I'm going to give your assessment my treat uh because

honestly Ken or honestly Ken Jim this

assessment I think it would be great and I and I do think um even when you said it's what I'm comfortable doing um it we

all you know we we do settle and

comfortable um and not that you're not

being successful or anything I don't want to like downplay what you're doing right now in life gy but but it this could be an interesting play to just say hey I wonder what else is out there I agree and again what I would do is 7 ,000 at the end of the day is the

question you know and I just think you you can make way more on that you can and Jim here's the deal the tool to get clear assessment comes with the book find the work you're wired to do this going to help you ideate and you just need some ideas to see what can I do

from a skill set standpoint what can I do from an enjoyment standpoint and then

there there's where that idea that money that you could invest and do far more so

we'd love to see you get a better business model uh which greater greater

rate of return uh on on your time and

the money that you're going to invest and a whole lot less risk that's the uh

that's the goal and I think you can find that by the way in fact I know you can so great Point Rachel to point out that

we kind of do the thing we know because

we go at least I can do that and I want

you to see what you can do you know it's interesting and I'm not saying this is gy specifically but just in general um

the idea of being comfortable I read the Comfort crisis great book oh Michael Easter fantastic where it's just and it's so true I'm like we just the idea

of pain the idea of change to expand and

become greater it it it takes this level

of like oh my gosh I have to like you know be uncomfortable and I have to do

something that's outside of the box that that's normal but in order to to continue to grow sometimes we have to do that and that's true with our money I mean that's true within our marriages and our parenting with our kids I mean every every aspect our careers um to

continue to grow you can't stay comfortable because you do end up being stagnant fun question for you 30 seconds

till we go to break you can handle this you're a pro if you couldn't do what you're doing now what would be something

that you would try that would make you uncomfortable favorite oh that would make me uncomfortable oh my God you're interested by it interested but it it'

be outside of your comfort zone oh man

oh no

uh gosh I I don't know Ken I was going

to say I want to be a political correspondent but I don't know if I'd be uncomfortable doing that what would make

me uncomfortable different though a little bit different what about you uh

college basketball coach it would make

me uncomfortable I've never coached okay

other than just my kids and that would be that would be put me that's good

that's good maybe doing a doing a talk show with Ken Coleman may be really

uncomfortable this is the Ry

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz is alongside uh the

Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by why refi if you're in

a default and situation with your

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yy.com Ramsey it may not be available in all

states all right today's question comes from Ava in Rhode Islands after my

undergraduate studies which I did on scholarships I was accepted until law school I graduated under the impression

that I had about $80,000 in student loan

debt I didn't know that my parents also

took out a parent plus loan or loans and

they now say that I owe an additional

$75,000 I admit that that part is my

fault but when I was 18 years old is

when they did this and I didn't understand the ramifications of this type of loan I have opened a law

practice in my hometown which is small

so we only have two stop lights so my

income is very low my law license could

be taken away if I default on student loan debt and the monthly payment is

eight is about $800 just on the loans

that I took out should I allow my

father's paycheck to be garnished for

his part of the debt or should my

husband and I buckle down and take it on ourselves wow good night yikes we're

getting into the garnishing so that means it sounds like there's some tension and and and arguments about all

this so she didn't know her parents took

out $75,000 yeah and we hear this a lot that

either it's miscommunication or you know

it's just done and there is no

communication um and then this so I mean

well the parent what's your take on the parent plus situation what's your take on what the parents owe versus her well

I mean it was for her degree but it's under their name I know I mean and they

didn't tell her so do you have I just

want to know your opinion on that I mean in this situation I'd rather not get into a fight with the dad and have him

come after his paycheck that's not going to make for a very nice Thanksgiving no

yeah and you don't want I mean you hate to see relationships end over this stuff

get out of this small town and start making some real lawyer money I do I think that's the key I don't think you can afford to practice in your hometown

I think you have to go somewhere else

make law your kind of money and it's going to take a little while to get to get everything built up but it's very

doable yeah so I think the 80

grand is her portion that she knew about

mhm what do you think about the seven I know I mean the parents signed it right

I know I'm looking for an opinion over here I've got one I mean I think it's

the parents responsibility at that point

if you take it out on an 18-year-old and

you don't tell her that's on you I agree I agree I

agree what does the audience say out there in the lobby they agree with you Rachel that we got thumbs up I love this audience James this is the most active

audience that I've I've been with in in

months and months and months they're they're giving us the thumbs up thumbs down it's real time focus group right

here and these are ramsy people so

Rachel I agree the sticky part is par

sounds like Mom and Dad are not in agreement well and I wonder she's 18 so she's after law school right so she could be in early par this could have been 18 years ago when all this was going I got can I go back to the audience real quick yeah yeah audience do you sick the uh loan people on them

and let them garnish pops wages wow

we're getting we're getting I got mostly

yeses one guy says no wow

wow okay cuz it apparently it's going to

be an ugly Thanksgiving anyway so I

think I'm siding with the audience man

okay I like this real time focus group

stuff because I here's why I'm I'll be

honest with you you all bailed me out because that's where I was gonna go uh

at first I said no but then I was like o

I started thinking through I don't want to be heartless I know and I always wonder about these situations cuz she's 18 when this happens so maybe what if

they had told her and she forgot cuz cuz

it was two separate conf you know what I'm saying like I don't think they did the way she of course we this is why we need these people on the phone but bottom line is uh she she she throws it

out there should my husband and I take it on so she's got some character uh

this is a this is a a woman of character here so I don't know we'll see it was taken out in secret so no I don't think you owe it in secret I agree all right

tough one there Ryan is up next in

Oklahoma City Oklahoma Ryan how can we

help today uh hey Mr Coleman hey Miss Cruz uh

thanks for everything you guys do we really do appreciate it uh I had a question it's a little bit of money but mainly just career-based uh I used to

work in media TV everything and then I've worked in sales recently I'm currently a senior uh lead generation

specialist for a software company uh

I've been here about three months and uh

in the city that I'm in the school district that's right nearby I have friends that work there and everything uh they highlighted a job that was a high school media teacher position

something I've always kind of thought about was teaching getting back in media helping the Next Generation but was never serious about it and then they approached me with it I decided to interview and then yesterday they offered me the job so now I'm having to

decide between something really difficult uh because I've only been at my job three months right now so I'd

definitely be burning them if I leave and that doesn't really F well with me but uh there is more of the longterm

potential I think for the other job

being back in media helping um kind the

Youth of you know of the area pouring back into the community so just kind of looking for any sort of expertise or guidance on kind of weighing that option

yeah okay I'm gonna ask you a questions and let you you decide okay uh do you

pay attention to sports you like sports at all yes okay give me an example of

your favorite team uh the Oklahoma

Sooners and the Green Bay Packers either one okay good let's let's take the Packers because it's a professional thing okay sure we've got we've got thumbs down from the audience Ryan people didn't like your sports choices but that's okay you all behave I'll tell you when I want your opinion all right youall just sit there and be quiet all right uh I'm kidding of course uh sort

of uh so when when when when a free

agent okay leaves the Packers all right

so another team comes to him and says we want you uh you're not happy about it

when one of your top players leaves are you no but you don't think that they're

doing anything immoral or that they're a jerk they're taking an opportunity another team wanted them they're goingon to pay them a little bit more money and they feel like they can go play for another team and win a Super Bowl you may not like it but you understand it true or false and true I think that's

your situation uh this opportunity fell in

your lap can we say that yes you you

weren't out looking for it you weren't being a jerk you're not being

unethical uh there's nothing illegal in

this move is there no no definitely not

so here's my point yes they're not going to be thrilled that you're leaving them after 3 months but that's not your

problem this is an opportunity to to uh

to kind of express your your your your

journey here I can make some moves here

I can get a little bit further faster this sets me up for the long term based on how you've described it I think you sit down with them you tell them that you go listen I didn't plan for this uh

this is this is an opportunity that has

presented itself that I can't pass up I

am so sorry uh to leave you after only

three months but I have to take this opportunity and and if they call you bad

names or if they treat you in a poor way

you're just going to have to be a big boy and handle that but I think you have to make the decision that's right for you long term and because of that I I

think it's the right move sure I if I

can ask one other thing with it it is

about a 20 to $30,000 difference and I

know I've recently gotten into you know

listening to you guys and all the yes

it'd be less for how long

just uh well within teaching it's all

pretty uh segmented so I'd be going from

about I'm at 75 right now

and the job would be 55 now there is

commission into my job but just base

salary I'm currently 75 what do you want

to do teaching would be what do you want to do with your life where do you want to be 15 20 25 years from now

professional that is the biggest thing currently it's this job with everything

provides but I would not be doing this job two three five years from now right

can you live on the teacher salary like

oh definitely of course you I'm very good with that I'm just making sure that it's that he's not in some crazy position where he's like no I have all these B I know but I mean we did the largest millionaire study ever and the third largest group of net worth millionaires are teachers so it can be done and I'm asking not saying it can't be done I'm making sure Brian

specifically can do it for his

circumstances of course he can do it we

don't know until we ask well I wasn't

talking to you I was encouraging

him I'm only about one I'm about one

month or by the by the time I was leaving if I went to this new job at the beginning of October I would have just hit my six months of uh the 3 to six

months of yeah you're great you're

greaty you got one shot on this globe do

the thing that makes your heartbeat and you I was not as long as long as it's not a pattern in life of jumping jobs every three months you know what I mean there's no issue you're fine this is not a job jumper this is a young man who knows his role and he's ready to do it

go we great teachers go and be an

everyday millionaire you can do it this

is the r show

[Music] w

[Music]

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[Music] [Applause]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz joins me uh folks

stuff is moving in the real estate

market what's going to happen we don't know we don't know 100% but things are

moving and a lot of you going should we

wait should we wait rates are down uh

we've got little bit a little bit Jerome

pal saying time to start cutting again

we'll see how that affects the mortgage rates that's coming uh I think in

September so here's the point don't sit

around and wait wait wait and try to time all these rates if you're ready to buy or sell and you're and you know what you're

doing go for it and if you don't know what you're doing and you do know what you're doing you got to have one of the ramsy trusted real estate professionals

it's the only way to find an agent you can trust to keep you on track and we've

got the top agents in your area we trust them we vetted them and they're going to guide you through what may be for many

of us the most important investment and

financial decision you ever make go to ramseys solutions.com agent that's

Ramsey solutions.com

agent to Chattanooga Tennessee is where

we go nah is there Nina how can we help

hi yes thank you both for having me on

the show um so I'm just goingon to go

straight into it um I'm 24 years old I

have two kids an 8-year-old and a

four-year-old and um I just came across

the ramsy show about like two weeks ago

um so I've been on my own since like I

was 16 obviously I had my first child when I was young and never really really

thought about like I just been surviving

my whole life till recently um and I'm

just kind of overwhelmed and I want my

kids to be um I want to be able to be

financially free for my kids and I just

feel like it's kind of hard to do that

when I solely take care of everything

like rent do you know bills and all that

it's a lot so um I'm I'm just needing

some guidance and how to like budget or

where to start um I know the baby steps

uh they just start off with the emergency fund and um out of the

Thousand I only have 300 saved but then

again I feel like it's just I don't know

how to budget with like the bills and

everything and I'm just kind of

lost well number one you that that

feeling and that emotion is completely normal especially the story you laid out

for us I'm like yeah I mean you have you

have two kids you're a single mom you're young and you're trying to figure all

this out so I I applaud you so much

though for the work that that you're doing I mean that that is so difficult being a single parent so um you're doing

you're doing a great job so from from the money side uh where where you at how

much are you making a year and how much

debt do you have yes so I make about

45,000 a year um and um with my debt I

have I'm 12K 12K in debt okay and um so

I'mma break it down for you with the debt um I have in all the loans I have

10,000 but um you know I'm I made a

mistake in 2019 I bought a new car and

it got REO in 2020 and so um they cut it

down from 17 to 10,000 and um in credit cards I have

2,000 and then I have um about 530 in

collections okay now with the $10,000

car is that from the repossession and so

you don't have the car or is this on a

new car when you said the 10,000 it's

from the reposition so the car I have

now I don't you know it's paid off um I

bought a cheap car good good good for

you great yes um but you know my driving

history is pretty bad so my insurance is

at like 515 a month okay yeah so it's

it's that's all the that I have okay so

what what you bringing home a month is it around 3500 yes okay and have you done a

written budget do are you able to when

you look at do you like do you know

throughout the month hey beginning of the month I know how much my lights are going to be you know relatively uh water

my rents my you know all of that my food

like do you have you done a detailed budget yet so uh yes so my light kind of

like fluctuates um in my water but my

rent is about about 780 um you know

right now my light in water it came out

to like 500 okay um you when you list

out all when you list out your your food

your rent your utilities and gas for

your car and insurance how much does

that come out a month do you know that number off the top of your head um off

the top of my head no I don't but I know

it's like close to what I make it's

close to that okay to that 3500 yep okay

yeah yeah so in your case Nina what we

find with money so often is that there's

really two ways that it flows it flows in from the in income standpoint and

then it flows out with expenses and everything you've listed to me and as

we've talked in this conversation my assumption is there's no outlandish uh

cuts to probably be made I mean I mean

maybe some restaurants here or there but you're not you know you're not going on vacation on credit cards or doing you know those kind of things this is pretty your your bills your basic bills are

squeaking Buy which means on the expense

side of it there's probably not a ton to cut I would I would I would I would

challenge you just to look cuz even 30 40 bucks from a random subscription or

you know some restaurants like if there's any amount of money you can squeeze out do that but I think your

biggest up playay is your income side

what do you do for a living I'm an operations coordinator so

I work in logistics oh nice so what do

you think is the next rung or two up the

ladder in your current workplace is

there is there even a rung or two above you that is reachable um so I'm not going to lie um

uh this is actually one of my first good

jobs I was um I actually was a Dropout

so I didn't finish school so I don't really have an education I don't really

neither do I Nina I'm a college Dr well

did you get a GED you mean even high school because you left you left school you left home at 16 did you get your GED

yes ma'am I good for you that's great so

so okay I hear what you're saying so you're kind of going Ken I'm not even thinking about the next rung of the ladder I'm thrilled to be on this one and I and I'm not trying to get you but I'm just wondering um now that I know

that how long you been in that role so I

just I just start it's I'm like hitting

four months already um so you know I'm

I'm very blessed to be a part of the team but before you know I had like jobs

working in the carpet mill um so this is

actually a very stable job for me and

all right so let me switch gears on you real quick okay back to the bud I I think right now I think you could probably pick up a side gig is it

possible do you have somebody to go watch the kiddos and you could pick up maybe a 15 or 20 more hours a week for a

season a small season but a season so um

I know it takes a village to raise a kids but uh I don't have a village you

don't have anybody maybe from well let

me say from home there's a lot of you know remote stuff can you do some

customer service stuff at night when the kids are in bed this is all by phone or

by computer yes I can um I do sometimes

work from home so that all right so with

that in mind I want to get back to the budget thing and and and by the way before I forget I want to tell you this

when we're going to put you on hold in a minute when we're finished and we're going to get you a session our treat we're going to pay for it with with a financial coach because I think you need

a little bit more time and I think when they walk you through Penny by penny

where you're spending I want someone to be Hands-On and if you'll promise me nah

that you'll let them coach you and show

you how to do your first real budget I

want to give you a session with him will you do that I will because listen let me

tell you something n listen I'm not betting against a single mama and you've

got what it takes you got a good job uh

I I think you're making enough money I think you got to see where your money's going and I think some side hustles to

pay this small amount of money off I know it seems like a mountain but 12K is very doable but here's what I want to encourage you on okay I think that

you've got to treat your budget like

it's a full-time job and I think you're going to be surprised how much money you can find and pay that off and we'll give

you every dollar Premium Too Nina that's our budgeting app to do that and FPU and

stuff so we'll we'll load you up for sure in the because I got a quick question okay how much money Nina just

ballpark I'm not holding you to this how much money if we handed it to you every month would you think would make the difference right now giving you some

breathing um how much okay um ballpark

in order to pay off my debt no no no

just to be able to have some some Breathing Room what's that amount of money that you go Ken if you gave me this much a month what what's the

number um probably okay so I make about

35 um so I guess another thousand

another thousand okay so here's here's the point I want you just think about

through the debt payments and then getting a budget that $1,000 a month all

right real quick for the rest of you uh

who are not on radio radio audience

we're going to stay with you for the rest of you on YouTube and podcast the

show is done for you unless you go to

the Ramsay app and that's where you get

the rest of the calls and we got some good ones lined up so head over there you can search for the Ramsey Network in

the App Store

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hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

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## 217. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 26, 2024)


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| **Video ID** | `uZUE3jQKwic` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUE3jQKwic) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:01 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Ken Coleman number

one bestselling author and host of the Ken bman show here at Ramsey is my

co-host today open phones atle

[Music] 88255 225 that's tri8 825 5225 right

before we turn on the microphones Ken and I were just discussing a fabulous

appearance he just did on Mike Rose

Dirty Jobs um Mike R of Dirty Jobs has a

podcast that's a long form interview podcast Mike and I've been friends a long long time and I've done it a couple

times and Ken was just a guest on there and it just I think it posted this week

and I've listen I listen to it all the way through um it's an hour and 40

minutes of you two guys having way too much fun but it's very informative a

great discussion if you haven't uh

checked out Mike's podcast we recommend

that you do especially this week with Ken being on there it was incredible Ken great job thank you Brenda is in Tampa

Florida to start off this hour hi Brenda

welcome to the ramsy show Hello thank you for having me sure

what's up

um so my husband and I have been listening um or found you on December

last year and we started um the every

dollar app and we have gotten an offer

already of like $36,000 in debt but we still have way

more to go we have around

$255,000 in debt

still and we were wondering um like to

accelerate it a little bit if we should

sell our house if it does it is

2.75 um APR on our house um but just to

see what your opinion was okay the

250,000 in debt does that include your

mortgage it does not okay what's it on

student loans it's student loan um solar panel

one car um credit cards and a pool

loan yeah we did very bad mistakes but

we're learning from are bad habits what

do you owe on the

car the car um 35,000 okay and what's

your household

income um we bring home um around 9500 a

month do you like your

house we do we had two it has nice solar

panels in a pool we know

that yeah yeah so yeah okay um

if I'm in your shoes I'm not selling the house except as a worst case scenario if

you get completely stuck you have a pretty good income I would sell my

car and we did sell one of our cars the

35,000 one would go too before I sold my

house yeah yeah that's what a $1,200 a

month car payment actually no$ 760 oh okay you got

a good rate on that too then okay good

yeah but either way I'm I I would be rid of that that's 35,000 of the 250 you've

already made 36,000 progress and of

course every time we get rid of a payment it increases the the speed of

your progress because you have more money freed up to attack the rest of the debts working the debt snowball

right yes yeah it is upside down like um

almost 15 how many times you go out to eat last month um quite a few we did down Le a

lot less yeah yeah so that needs to be

zero you don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working

there and you don't need to be on vacation you call me about to sell your

house because you're desperate about your debt and yet you're going out to eat every night that's got to stop

girlfriend not every night you got to stop it's got to stop going out to eat is entertainment

it is not

nutrition okay you guys got to you need

to get on a beans and rice scorched Earth budget where your family thinks

you've joined a

cult you're you need to go crazy before

you talk about selling your house cuz

you got a good situation with this house

and if you walk away from it because you won't curb in your other appetites that

would be a wrong set of choices yeah the

advice I would give here is I would get

every dollar uh which is our amazing

budgeting app and get control of your budget within the parameter that Dave

just gave you and here's the number you got to come to I wrote down you said you're bringing home 9500 month I would

be looking to get the largest amount of

money possible out of that 9500 that

you're putting towards debt per month and I'm just making this up but start to think in terms of could we put $3,000 a

month towards debt that's $36,000 a year

that's just out of your current income be it needs to be more I I know but I'm saying you got to build up to what can I

put in and you've got to put the max

amount in and it doesn't feel then so

large and insurmountable to where she's

trying to go let's get the house and get

a lump and say no over the next two

years or three years we can knock this out but we have to do this per month so

Brenda another way of saying it is the only thing on the list of things you gave me that was smart was the

house everything else was

Dumb and so we don't want to lose the

one smart thing for the dumb things

without having pulled out all the stops

to save the house as if your life

depended on it yeah and so $4,000 a

month $5,000 a month extra jobs no

vacations no eating out no

nothing nothing just eat pay the lights

keep the water on work all the time and

pay your bills and you'll get out of

debt so fast it'll blow your mind how

fast you can do this but it it's going

to still take three hard years of doing

that and sell the stupid car and sell

everything else it's in sight anything

is sell so much stuff the kids think they're next the dog on eBay and the cat

on Craigslist I mean move some stuff

that that's you kind of got to get in that mindset where nothing matters and

once you've done that for two years if you run out of steam and you go I can't do this anymore I hate this worse than I

hate I hate I hate this house now all

this stuff I've had to do for it but you know you got pool you got solar panels both of which you're going to bring squat when you get ready to resell this thing so you're going to get burned again if you resell it so if I'm you H

I'm I'm going roll up my sleeves and go

after this with a Vengeance and that's

what changes everything absolutely it's it's that mindset to go I I can actually

do this but I've got to have a plan yeah

and that's why again the budget to

understand how much money you've been spending I love that immediately you went right to a very practical how many

times you eat out last month it's that idea of getting control of how much money we actually have to throw at this problem then it doesn't become insurmountable yeah this is doable very

but uh because the great news is you got a pretty decent decent shovel you got a really big hole but you got a pretty decent shovel there can you resell solar

panels no like reselling a computer that's what

I thought as soon as you plug it in it's obsolete the technolog is moving so fast

on them okay that I've always wondered

5-year-old solar panels are what is known as um dumpster food um you know

they just have no the because the quality of the quality of the technology

today versus 5 years ago same as an old

computer right it's the same thing and so yeah that's why they're just that's

why they're junk uh solar panels are

great if you can get about a 5year break even and if you pay cash for them but

not going into debt for them um because

you got to make your money back in 5 years because at the end of the five years they're going to be worthless they're going to be in the way and um I

mean they'll still continue to produce something but in terms of the value

added to your house nah not at all this

is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us open phones atle

88255 225 Amanda is in Knoxville hi

Amanda welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi Dave and Ken thank you for

taking my call sure I need your advice

um I husband and I are

exhausted we um so trying to figure out

if maybe starting a business or working from home may be a better option for us

um we have about $889,000 in thatb um

and I work full-time and I have an hour

drive to work every day and my husband

works full times but he works a night

shift from 10 at night till 600 in the morning and we have two children my

oldest just started kindergarten so we had help with drop

off and pickup with my mother andlaw but

she has had some health issues and she

can't drive right now so that's putting

on me doing the the bedtime routine and

the drop offs in the morning and my husband waking up early to pick her up from school so we're just exhausted I

don't know if that would be a good option for us considering the amount of debt we have what do you

make uh I make I make 57 but I'm set to

get a raise starting October one okay

what do you do sure about my husband uh I'm an account stable okay

and what's your husband do uh he works in a manufacturing plant

you drive this for list okay what would

be the business that you two would start I'm presuming you guys have kicked around some ideas if you ask us

that well I it would be me um I have

some experience in grant writing and um

I was thought thought about doing that as a side hustle um but then I'm

thinking well maybe a business a

full-time business might be a better option so that I can take care of the

kids and um you know it's only a better

option it's only a better option I don't

know what grant writers make I presume

that you know but it's only a better option if you're making the exact same

amount of money or more with absolute

opportunity to grow

that other than that you're just gonna

have to press through this is a tough season of life you got debt to pay off

well the other thing is you could just change jobs yeah or you don't have an

hour commute an hour commute in Knoxville is unusual Knoxville is not that it's not

that big I live outside of Knoxville I'm more

towards North Carolina but Boxville is

my closest city um I have 30 minutes to

the closest town um I actually and

that's if I go straight to work it's an hour drive I have to drop off one child

at my mother's 30 minutes away and then

to work and drop my mother-in-law at work so because she can't drive right

now so I'm actually hour and a half my

morning can you and then pick up my one

daughter on the way home so I I was born

inity what honey what what city are you

in um um our address is Hartford where

yeah okay up there where the rafting company things are yeah okay yeah all

right well the the job that your husband

has is replaceable in a day position not

an overnight because he doesn't make a

ton of money your job is

replaceable um if if you found something

there that even if it paid less um then

and you got two hours a day back you could do grant writing as a side

hustle yeah okay but driving in an hour

uh is is part of what the problem is you're losing you're burning 2 hours a day just to go make

$57,000 and um what you're tell me is is

that that's not worth it and him being him working overnight just to make what's he making 25

bucks uh close to that yeah yeah yeah

and there's no reason to do night shift to make 25 bucks you can make 25 bucks

at Target so um and then that get him back

on a day clock and you on a day clock

that helps cut your commute down down

that helps but jumping out and just

declaring I am now in small business in

a t in a small town in the hills of East

Tennessee suddenly and give up my you're

the major bread winner in the place give

up the biggest share of your income and

hope it works out no I'm not going to tell you to do that but I am with you

that something has to change another thing that could change

and this is really painful but you could

move cuz you're driving you're basically

driving into Knoxville is what you're telling me S County yeah yeah yeah what would

keep you from moving I heard your response to that as in it's not an

option why is that not an

option a family land um my inla that's

great it's a little hard to chew that up and eat it and right now you're having trouble

eating and and you're call me completely

exhausted ready to just throw yourself

off of a a a career cliff and hope you

hit a pad on the bottom no so I think

you guys I think you guys got to put a whole bunch of anything's on the table

until it's not him changing to a day job

you all moving halfway between so you

get some things back are you changing

jobs to something there in your town but

um you know like you said what you the

life that you've built you didn't build

it has happened to you by default and

it's tearing your butt up and you got to change yeah so you've you've identified

something that's got a give and so my

suggestion is that you decide what's

going to give and that it's wise meaning

that you just quit a $57,000 your job

because I'm worn out and go get and open

up a job hoping you make and you end up making nothing no open up a small

business no that I would not recommend that to anyone uh I would recommend you

start your small business as a side Hustle but you don't have any time to do that right now in this current situation

yeah it it's it's fascinating to me and

and not picking on Amanda at all because I've seen this so many times this idea

that proximity to family or some type of

family land or some benefit that I

perceive as a benefit tied to my family

as one of the key reasons why my life is

otherwise miserable is is so backwards

yeah and you've got to get to a point where you go what must be true for my

life to be better and then you stop

thinking well I have to figure it out in the terms of I got to be in your family

or I got to live on this family land everything's on the table when you're this tired I agree it's quality of life

bill is in Raleigh North Carolina hi Bill welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave thanks for taking my call

I really appreciate it sure what's up

got got a quick question my wife and I

um bought a speck house last year that

was about 40% finished when we purchased

it and so we had the opportunity to make

changes and add things um with signed

change orders with the Builder and we

ended up adding about 250k to the price

as far as what we we paid and then when

we closed in December and the sale was

recorded it was recorded as the original

sale price and didn't include any of the

change orders we did so I'm just wondering that accurate or can it

include the change orders that we did

why would you want them included in Most

states you record the deed based on the sale price and that's going to increase

it's going to increase your closing

costs um well I I guess the the the reason was

just if when um paid cash for the

house um and so I was thinking at some

point if we sell it it would look better

that that we purchase it for x amount as

opposed to x amount minus

250k no no doesn't affect sale price at

all what affects sale price when you get ready to sell is the actual value of the

house which includes the 250k worth of

stuff so when you get ready to list it 5

years from now you're going to say this is so many square feet and by the way we

added all of these things to it when we bought it five years ago and so it's a

it's a top-of the market uh appliances

or Top ofth Market flooring or whatever it is you you put in that increase those

things and so make sure you're considering that when we decide what we're going to list it for and also you

let the the appraiser at that time but

uh the what you paid for it or what you

uh what the tax rolls show has nothing

to do with the actual value I mean case

in point would be if you bought it at foreclosure for 50% of

value you know that doesn't doesn't keep

it from being valuable it has it's still

worth 100% even though you bought it at 50% at a deal and in this case it just

recorded no it doesn't affect anything at all I wouldn't worry about it not a bit this is the ramc show

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] [Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah how in the middle

of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking

the time to put this stuff in place the Costo stinking Pizza it really is so

that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our fam's needs for insurance

for many years including of course term

life ins to get a free quote go to 8800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com

[Music]

thank you for joining us America we're glad you are here Ken Coleman Ramsey

personality number one bestselling

author of the book paycheck to purpose

and his new work um discovering or

finding the work you're wired to do

which comes with the uh the get clear

assessment to help you figure out what your strengths are and where you need to head with your whole career and

money-making Endeavors it's a great

thing it's just hit a a bunch of bunch

of uh uh bestseller things this week as

a matter of fact very cool hey the average interest rate for a 15-year mortgage dropped from six to

5.6 this week uh and the average this

week I'm sorry fell to 5.15 the lowest

we've seen since February of

23 so um almost 20 some odd months now

since we've seen an interest rate that

low so if you purchase a

$423,000 house with a 20 % down payment

on a 15-year uh the interest rate change

is the difference now of uh about $3

$4,000 a year year is what it would save

you so yeah if you're financially ready

if you're out of debt you have your down payment ready and you have your emergency fund in place we're huge on

the real estate market and this is the

time to do it if it's also a great time

to sell because there's a shortage of inventory so it's kind of a weird Market in that way but you need a good strong

real estate agent in your corner that knows what the flip they're doing high protein high octane so go to ramseys

solutions.com agent and you can find the

real estate agent that's ramsy trusted

that we have vetted in your area so

there we go open phones atle 8825

5225 Nicole is in Jacksonville hi Nicole

how are you good how are you better than I

deserve what's up

okay so um me and my husband are about

to bring a baby into the world in January next year and

congratulations thank you he's had this

credit card um with his mom um that he's

been having for like the past basically

year and a half but um she basically has

like joint ownership of his like account

and stuff like that because he's in the military so like when he first um got in

he was like oh well you're going to overse everything um just make sure like

my bills are paid and stuff like that but she opened up her credit card and

she's ran up like $14,000 since then and

um every time I try to talk to him about it like hey like what's going on with this like um you know is she G to take

care of it now that we're bringing a baby into the world I'm concerned and

like every time she'll ask him about it like she completely like gets angry or

upset and cries because she has loopus

and she has like a lot of medical bills

too so we're not really sure how to how long

have you been married we've been married for a year

and a half MH okay and what does she

make what does he make and what do you

make um he

makes like 55,000 a year and me I'm a student so

I'm still in school and everything so I work parttime how old are you old are

you too I'm 22 and he's 23 okay

yeah here's the thing here's the thing

stop you don't have a mother-in-law problem you have a husband

problem okay so hubby has got to decide

now that he there's a new woman in his

life that's not his

mother when you the old in the old days

people would say things like uh when you

get married you leave

your parents and

cleave to your spouse leing cleave we

called it okay and there's a boundary

drawn there's a new household has been established a year and a half ago now it

has a baby entering it okay and we're

not going to blame any of this on the baby we're going to blame all of this on

your husband the day you all got married

it was his job as a man to separate all

of his accounts from his mother

this is very boyish not manly

Behavior yes that he's engaging in and

so uh you if I'm in your shoes I'm going

to sit down very calmly and I don't care

if his mom cries I'm sorry and I don't

care I'm sorry she has lupus but the

reason she's crying is because she's

ashamed and because it works on her

little boy so we're going to have to help your

husband run down to Walmart and pick up a backbone they're on aisle

three and then he's going to walk in

there very calmly and gently and say Mom

now that I'm married and I have my own family we're not going to have any more joint accounts so everything is being

closed today and you're going to reopen

your own accounts mom and you need to

pay this $14,000 you rent up on this

credit

card okay and if she doesn't you'll have

to because it's got your husband's name

on it this is a mistake that he has made

and it may cost him and you $114,000

because I Got a Feeling This Woman's not going to pay this don't

you yeah yeah and you're not to be

involved at all you'll become the wicked

you'll become the wicked daughter in law

it'll be all your fault because this woman is a travel agent for guilt trips

okay yeah every time I like try to like

talk to her about don't you ever say a

word to her about this again yeah but your husband he needs to

throw his shoulders back and become a

man today

today this is weak and fearful Behavior

he needs to become courageous bold

gentle with his mom there's no reason to

be mean to her he's the one entered into

this arrangement but it does need to be

very thorough and complete

immediately it's absurd that a man that

is married and has a baby on the way has

joint accounts with his mommy that's

ridiculous okay you can play this back for him if

you want he needs to square yeah he needs to

square his shoulders and walk in there I

I don't want him to be unkind to his mom

but was his duty the week before you got

married to separate

everything when my kids were getting married we sat down two weeks before I

transferred every single mutual fund that was theirs every single checking account or piece of savings that was theirs completely out of our name and if

they went and did something stupid with it the next day that's on them because

they're now what's known as grownup

adults and so I'm it's not my job

anymore to manage them they they are now

free agents they're grown people and you

don't you don't even have to get married to do that but that happened to be the

when we made sure that everything was Final because I did not want to be interfering with my inla my my

daughters-in-law sons-in-law just like Nicole situation this is happening more and more yeah I the EM the emotional emical

cord needs to be cut and this is the

reason why is because the lupus she's my

mom mom she did this she's done that and

you cannot think rationally when you

were thinking emotionally you cannot

have a rational thought at the same time

that you have an emotional thought and

this tie together he's never going to act rational until the clearcut has

happened and I really would recommend that he watch this so that he realizes

you're not the bad person and and you

don't be pissed if somebody be pissed at me it's like a spiritual gift I have I'm fine with that yeah cut the cord man there's entire Reddit Pages devoted

doing that so you can and comment sections of everything so by the way this is only going to get worse I want the young man to hear every every day this goes on worse this every day this goes on and and we're not even going to blame this on the baby oh no not the baby this is something should have been done before there was a baby well I tell you it's the big baby I'm blaming it on

the big baby not the baby in the womb

the baby who has yet to mature yeah uh

and by the way Mom enabled this so there's enough BL go she didn't enable it she manipulated it she wanted it she

likes this he was mama's boy to go to to

Military and say Mom pay my bills yep

yep I'm not blaming that all on him yep

we got to let these kids fly folks kick

them out of the nest that's what the birds do mhm yeah that's

um this is a national problem to your

point we're see it's a real problem it's

a real problem this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today today's Ramsey Network app

question comes from the Ramsey Network

app obviously if you don't know what that is you can download that app for free and you get this entire show every

day on video and audio so you can turn

into a podcast or a video watch whatever

you want the last segment of this show

every day is available only on the Ramsey Network app so be sure and do that and you can do stuff like ask a question there which is what happened here uh Taran uh sent us a question Ken

my husband and I just had a healthy baby girl in July and are transitioning out of stor mode and back into gazelle intensity in preparation for the hospital bills we were maxing out our HSA and have used nearly all of that

money on covering those bills I'm nervous to stop contributing to the HSA

and having no funds for a medical emergency to at least cover our deductible can you please ease my worries and explain why HSA

contributions should should also

stop um because all savings stops when

you're in gazelle intensity mode that's

why uh medical uh car

repair uh everything we're walking out

on the $1,000 tight wire and we're going to get

in attack mode and clean this stuff up

so uh but you do need to finish up whatever you're doing through the HSA with the medical bills I ain't get any problem with that with this particular set of medical bills but the HSA is an

emergency fund only for a medical

emergency doesn't cover other

emergencies and so it's like a you know

a part-time emergency fund a partial

emergency fund and we don't fund that

until we get to baby step three and so

um I no I would not do that now the the

exception uh no there's not an exception

I just would not do that I'm trying to think through no nope nope simple simple

Jacob is in Louisville Kentucky hi Jacob

welcome to the Ramsey Show

hi Dave hi Ken Ken how are you all doing

better than we deserve what's up hi so my wife and I we we have a

long-term goal to purchase some land

outside of Louisville uh and to build a

cabin on it and just make that our full-time home makes it close to church

and keeps us away from honestly the city

um which we so desperately want um but

we're trying to see how we can financially do that uh we found some

land we like we have a price on it we

know how much the house would be to build on it but I just don't know if

we're in a financial spot to do it

what's What's the total package land and

cabin right now sure yeah so land is

880,000 I think I can get them down to 70 but you know we'll say 80 um and then

house is

330 okay so let's call it 400 okay do

you own a home currently yes and what is it worth it's

worth 225 okay is it paid

for uh I have 150,000 left on the

mortgage okay so you get 70 from that if

you sell it as a down payment on your

cabin and land of 400 so you would take

out a mortgage of 330 in that case am I

right yes okay and what's your household

income uh collectively around 150 okay

so can you take out a $330,000 15-year fixed rate mortgage at

5% today and it be about a fourth of

your take- home pay I don't think you

can can

you uh no no I don't think so that's

we're thinking and tell me if I'm being

dumb which I probably am to purchase the land pay it off and

then sell our home no it doesn't change

anything you can just save up the money

to buy land and then sell your home it's

the same exact thing are you out of debt other than the house

we have a car loan that's going to go away here in the next week they'll be done then you need to build your emergency fund and then you need to be

putting 15% away for retirement and

start saving for land but you're not ready to do this deal today you can't afford it we have 30 already saved up does that

change anything on there or well where's your emergency fund we have about 20,000 in mutual

funds and 30,000 in savings okay all

right so how much of your 50,000 should

be your emergency

fund um which that would cover what and all

that is three to six months of

expenses okay that's 20,000 okay all

right and so you've got 30,000 then to

put between the two things you cash out the mutual fund you have 30,000 to put towards it so now instead of 70 we're

putting down 100 when your down payment

is enough that your house payment

becomes a 4 of your take-home pay we're

fine with that and then you go get a

construction loan that buys the land and builds the cabin you may need to rent

for a little while while you're doing that and get your house sold you may

have to move twice to make this work but

you've got to get that mortgage amount down to where your house payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed and um so your

take-home pay is what8 Grand n Grand yes

okay if we call it 10 you can take a $2,500 house payment as an example

right okay right and I don't think

that's going to support a 35 a $330,000

mortgage but it you know but as you save

more money you're going to get in a position to do that so it may be this particular piece of land gets away but

if you go byy the land now and finance it you're going to slow down the speed at which you pull this

off because you got more debt then to

support while you're trying to do all the savings so um be careful that you

don't do your dreams Jacob in such a way that they become a nightmare and so let's just slow down

you'll get there um or let's change the

house plan build less house on this

land um or let's change the construction

process and not where it doesn't cost as much I don't know I don't know what

you're talking about building on this acreage um

but uh you know I think you went

shopping for a house or for a piece of land before you were ready and now you got land fever yeah I remember getting land fever when we first moved here it's dangerous to keep going and looking at land when you're not ready man just wait till you're ready there you go it's hard

acknowledge that that's hard Chris is in Tampa hi Chris welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey guys thanks for taking my call

sure what's up um so I have uh two homes uh one is a

rental and one is my primary um the

rental has become more than I want to

deal with in my life um so much for

Passive passive income right um and I've

decided to sell it um and I guess my

question is um I have a financial

adviser I work with who's done really well for me um throughout my life and he

thinks that it would be in my best interest to take the proceeds from the

rental and um you know invest the money

um the proceeds will probably be about 150,000 is um uh but I feel like I

should take the money and put it in Pay

down my primary mortgage you are right your financial

advisor is wrong and why do you say that because as

we studied millionaires 10,000 of them

in the largest study of Millionaire's ever done we found that uh they had two

primary things that made them wealthy

steadily investing in their retirement

plans like 401ks in good mutual funds

okay and getting their home paid off the

typical millionaire that we run into say they had a million and a half million 8 net worth something like that the first stage of millionaire status they sitting

on A45 $600,000 paid for house and they

got 4 five 600,000 bucks in their in

their 401K very very few of them became

millionaires by investing with their financial advisor while keeping debt on

their home because it's essentially from

a balance sheet perspective what you stumbled into with your direction Chris

is that it's as if you've borrowed on

your home to invest and you would never

do that correct yeah because by not paying

it down in and instead investing it has

the exact same mathematical effect as

having borrowed on your home in order to

invest and that would be ludicrous from

a risk management standpoint because now you're putting your home at risk to play footsie with something your adviser wants to do no thank you yeah okay cool I want to hear what

you guys thought I I had a feeling you were going to say yeah I'm fairly predictable I've been saying the same thing over and over and over again for a long time my pastor told me day he goes

you say the same thing over and over and I said so do you

right well played yeah it's a great

point for 30 years yeah it's very

predictable but it turns out that the data actually backs up this idea of

being debt-free is one of the key elements of Building Wealth that's right it's undisputable there we go it's called Data yeah it's a fact those whole

fact thing facts get in the way of all this feelings this is the Ramsey Show

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today live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today open phones

at 8825

5225 Elliott is going to start this hour

off in Grand Rapids Michigan hey Elliot

what's up hey how are you you guys doing better

than we deserve how can we

help uh well thank you guys for what you

do uh my parents became millionaires

just following your guys plan um I'm

calling because my brother-in-law he's a

little younger than me he's 24 um he's a

pretty successful guy crazy hard worker

um but he's starting to get caught up in

a peer-to-peer lending program um that

unfortunately another family friend is talking him into um I know I can't you

know just kind of like this is stupid and ended at that um

do you guys have any advice how do I

talk to him about this because he's trying to make sure it's legit but he's also just keeps getting further into it

so well I mean the only way you can

convince someone is um is to the extent

of the quality of your relationship with them so if you have a deeper

relationship with him than this family

friend then you've got the ability to

get between them but if you have a

casual relationship with him that's about equal to the family friend you're probably not going to be successful at

this in order to hold someone

accountable in order to hold someone accountable and smack them in the back of the head you have to get your arm around their

shoulder yeah that's fair it it starts

with a it starts with a hug so I mean I

those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still I've had very little luck in my life answering

questions that people didn't ask

mhm he he has asked oh good which is

cool and I so he called you and asked

you about this yeah he was talking with me about

it and I was like there's a lot of red flags going up man and so he's just been

sending me things about it and I've been

is he trying to sell you and joining

it no I think he's just trying to sell

himself and kinding of prove he can out

discust me on it well now you got him in a good spot that that's okay then that's

good yeah so I I think that you know your best shot uh for persuasion is in

person in private you don't want to

embarrass him in front of um your sister

that he's married to I think or or your

or your wife is his sister I don't know whichever it is his brother-in-law but yeah so no embarrassment this is not going to be over a dinner with the gals

and you start but basically what I would

do is not call him stupid what what I

found is that that um the stuff that I

did when I that was really stupid when I was 24 came from trying to find a

shortcut I was trying to find a way to

get rich quick and it's very humorous to think

about that loaning money to broke people

broke people loaning money to broke people is going to cause you to get wealthy that's what peer-to-peer lending

is it's it's even funnier than that

because he's borrowing qand of the peer-to-peer but he's also like really

successful for his age like I think he could easily retire in like 10 20 years

if he wanted to yeah but he's not successful this he's success he's

successful because he's ambitious and a hard worker and and he looked over here

and went oh I'm I this may look on the

outside like it doesn't work but I'm

smart enough I can do this that's what I

did and that's how I lost my butt yeah Elliot I I I jump in real quick to say I

think since he's opened the door to you and your first response was red flags I

think you got to go back just as Dave said one1 and say hey I've done done my research and let me tell you what the data says that the risks are and I would

in this case play to the Natural real

fear to the actual high-risk situation

this is not a manipulation this is this

stuff is really really risky start

talking about the psychological and the relationship stuff start talking about

it's not an actual good investment strategy compared to and start showing

like the ramsy you know go to our website basically loaning money to people no one else will loan money to yeah you got to make the case but make the case kind of dumb but it's got to be databased right and say man

this is risky here's why the other thing

I would do is I would appeal to him to

say okay what you know let's study

wealthy people how many of them used

shortcuts to get there they really don't

they use their innate uh work ethic and

go-getter mentality in other words I think Elliott that your brother-in-law's Secret Sauce is him not that he hasn't

found the right thing to accelerate it yet he's the secret sauce I want him to

hear from you that you think he's

amazing and that this is a total

waste the it' be a waste of his time he

he's going to get he he's got the

ability to go far and go fast if he

stays away from things like this yeah

because of who he is so you've got this

admiration of him until he lost his mind

on this one thing right yeah yeah pretty

much I'm looking at him like man you've been doing so well up to this I would

say that over and over and over again

his secret sauce yeah his secret sauce

is him he's the secret sauce it's not

that he needs to find some you know the

multi-level people all go you need to find a a vehicle no you don't you're the

vehicle you know I need to find I need to find a a system no you don't you're

the system live on less than you make

and save money work your butt off that's

the system and that's the one that the

wealthy people use they don't go oh I found a Bitcoin there we look at that it

made it easy oh I found a algorithm

where I can do lotto tickets no you

didn't okay and so sh I mean this is

what get rich quick is based on that's

right is based on desperation or greed

yeah yeah and it always in either case

requires a level of Pride and pride is

what comes right before you fall I did

every one of these stupid butt things

every part of my story of losing everything in my 20s is because of those

exact things because I thought I could

do nothing down flip real estate and get

away with it because I was so

smart and everyone that does that

eventually goes completely freaking

broke um all the guys that did it when I

did it are all either out of the business or they paid off their debt one of the two they either went broke doing

nothing down flipped this house before there was Chip and Joanna they weren't even born yet okay and so this but it's

this stuff has been around forever but it's it's all rooted in desperation or

greed in your brother-in-law's case it's

greed that's right not not filthy greed

like horrible nasty person greed just

like I think I can do this because I'm

smarter than the average cat the rules

don't apply to me because I'm smart and

I work hard and I'm ahead of the game there something about all of these things that I want to make sure the audience catches what Dave said earlier every shortcut that exist always

requires you to suspend common sense and

the reason it does is because it you feel like it's that emotional I figured

out the hack and I'm going to Short

Circuit the system and so your emotion

takes over so the law of gravity doesn't apply to me exactly that's emotion flap

your arms boy you're about to hit the

sidewalk law of gravity applies boom put

your helmet little print right there on the sidewalk I know man it's exactly

what I did you know I understand I

understood intellectually the dangers of

Leverage but I thought I could beat it

that's the classic example flap your dadgum arms and hit the sidewalk That's

it man the law of gravity does not apply

to me mhm this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today number one bestselling author the best way to make the most of your money is by doing it on purpose most people don't win with their

money because we can't get them to do it on purpose if you will simply make the

money that you have behave and go towards your goals you will start hitting your goals but most people kind of wander along half asleep and then wake up at

retirement going oh man oh man hope the

government which is well known for its ability to handle money will take care of me bad idea you need a plan a plan

monthly is called a budget the best

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now yeah and you're not what's up every

dollar it's free in the app store or Google Play check it out and of course

you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or a podcast we'll take you straight in there Josh is in Charlotte

North Carolina hi Josh how are

you I'm anxious Dave how are you

oh okay better than I deserve what's

up well um my wife is a contract worker

she's uh doing HR recruiting and the

contract that she's with is slowing down

dramatically to the point where signs

are on the walls that she may be losing

her job in the next month or two we are

pushing hard to get out of debt um have

a medical loan uh from earlier this year

that we are hoping to be paid off by the

end of this year but our concern is with

the uh proposed incoming Doom um on the

horizon should we foro hitting debt hard

to switch to oh no we need to start

saving for a few

months that has the what I can't tell

here is um you gave a lot of metaphor

and dramatic things but no one has ever

said anything to her about this other

than she's observing things around her and feels like this is coming to a close I think she needs to go in and get some actual input from the leadership

team so the leadership team has told

them that with the way things are slowing down they don't know how much

longer their contract is going to be valid for but I would have another follow-up

question to that okay so how long is the

current contract going to last in other words is this a

reset or that the the whoever's paying

that contract can close that contract out at any time I just get really detailed on that but real quick Josh I

would immediately if I was in your situation and it was my wife in your in

her situation I would have her

immediately looking for a replacement

work I wouldn't necessarily pause on the

debt elimination I'd get real aggressive

to have some options out there while having this conversation let me tell you this if this is bad enough that you need

to stop all progress in your financial

plan and pile up cash because she's going to lose her job then she needs to go get another job yeah right

now is it that

bad it's it's starting to see that uh

they did a massive man you are hedging all over this year you sound like a

worrier I can't tell if you're worrying

or if this is really happening yeah uh

starting to no it's not it either is

this bad enough that she's ready to quit

her job and go get another one it's bad

enough that we ended up going to urgent care due to stress related illnesses

yesterday okay then happen to this

situation yeah then don't stand around wait on this to happen to you be proactive yes stop everything start

piling up cash and put her in a an

aggressive job hunt y she needs a new

job in two weeks

MH and then she needs to

quit and take the new job

no discussing this this is co hard cold

break these people have said we're about

to poop on you so Dodge the

poop okay fair enough I mean get after

it they told you what's they told you it's coming Dodge I'm telling you when I

hear about a storm coming I start to

make adjustments to the storm we don't

go well it could hit us it may not like

if it's dangerous and this is dangerous

financially address it get out front of

it Ken and I are the two guys standing in the front yard watching the tornado keep that in mind okay that is true I that was that's both of us all right

just just keep in mind that's who you're talking to I am ready but I'm waiting

till the last I can still get out of the way yeah Olay

right I never worry about Dave and when

the storm is coming because I know he's right where he is he know right where I'm gonna be right I'm G be walking right straight into it Jennifer is in

New York hi Jennifer welcome to the

ramsy show hi Dave hi Ken I love you

guys I'm hoping that you can help me with an issue um my husband and I would

like to purchase a one acre lot of land

but it's currently owned by a dissolved

LLC and there is an

$887,000 tax lean on it owned by the

town which exceeds the value of the land

which is most likely between 30 to

50,000 I have reached out to a couple

lawyers and they have let me know this

is beyond on their scope they've never seen like a weird situation like this

and I thought who better to help me than

the two you can't get clear title unless

the tax Lane's cleared so unless the town unless the

town will accept value the appraised

value you're about to overpay for this piece of ground no thank you right so I

do is this in New York

State this is in New Jersey in New

Jersey okay some states I don't I don't

know about New Jersey sell tax

leans to individuals they auction them

off and you buy them not for the amount

of the tax lean but less than the amount of the tax lean and then you can take

that tax lean and foreclose on the

property and have clear

title so if Jersey uh sells tax Lanes

Tennessee does not if you were in

Tennessee you would have to go into the

city municipality go into talk to the if

it's a small town the mayor if it's otherwise you talk to the tax assessor and say uh you have more owed on this

property than it is worth when you

foreclose you're not going to get all of

the tax stuff out of this uh can we

negotiate down to actual

appraisal and then then you got to

figure out why the current people that gave up and walked away would bother to

sign because they're not going to get anything out of this right so I don't think you're getting this piece of land probably it's probably a whole lot more trouble than it's worth sounds to me like but it's

worth poking around and learning about I guess if you if you're interested in it quick research says you can do it in the

the tax it does allow for it New Jersey

I don't know what the process is but you can do it you can buy a tax Lane they do

allow that okay well talk to the city and find out what you do to buy that tax Lane if you buy the tax if you buy the

tax Lane then you for close on the tax

lean the former owner would have to pay

you $887,000 you paid 60 for it okay and

they would have to pay you $87,000 to

stop your foreclosure now the other

thing you need to learn about then Jennifer and if you want to keep typing in there can you can does this have a

right of redemption some of some tax

leans have a 2-year right of redemption

so you could go through all this foreclose and they can come back any

time during that two years or one year

or whatever the right of redemption is and redeem it okay the owner of a

property or legally interested party May

redeem at any time as long as foreclosure has not begun okay that's

not a right Redemption then that just stops the Foreclosure okay but after

foreclosure some of them have an additional and you need to make sure of

that so what I would talk to Jennifer is

uh if you're going to go by the tax lean

before you do that talk to a title

company about what it's going to take for you to get clean title and buy title

insurance okay okay but my guess is if

you can buy the 87,000 what's the property worth it's probably only worth

30 to 50 but we why are you interested

in it yeah because so it is a lot that

is directly next to our property um and

it was from a builder who actually built

our house on one acre and then he I

think went bankrupt during the process sold off a bunch of the land to the town

but they must have had an oversight and not realize that this piece of land didn't transfer to the town so we're

trying to purchase this perfect yeah I

would go in and try to buy the tax Lan for less than the value of the property

and then do the Foreclosure or if the Builder will just sign it over to you as a favor and wave any rights of redemption you can have clear title tomorrow but you don't want to pay 87

for 30 this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host we invite you to stop by and hang out in the ramsy solutions Lobby

anytime you want we do this show from one to four central time every day and

um we can come in sit down for free we've got homemade chocolate chip

cookies and coffee it's all on us smells

like Mama's Kitchen in here not Corporate America and uh We've usually

got 50 to a couple hundred folks sitting around watching us do the show and they can hear the show and all that also in the lobby we have a a little stage that

we call the debt free stage on the debt

free stage is Quincy hi Quincy how are

you good how are you Mr Ramsey how are

you Mr Coleman good better than we

deserve sir where do you live I live in

St Louis Missouri very cool well welcome

to Nashville and how much debt have you

paid off Quincy paid off $55,000 good for you how long did that

take 36 months good for you and your

range of income during that 3 years 24,000 to 85,000 good for you what do

you do for a living I'm a business consultant good very good all right what

kind of debt was the $55,000 it was a rental property and two

cars you paid off a rental property for

$55,000 I did sounds like a fine piece

of property I so the the rental property I

had $111,000 left on it and the two

vehicles I had a truck which was worth

$155,000 at the time more than the

rental property more than the rental property and then I had my Cadillac

which I had just purchased at the

beginning of that year before when I started my debt free Journey that was around $29,000 to take so what's the story what

happened how'd you run into Ramsey and what made you decide to clean all of this up in just 36 months cuz you leaned

in man congratulations thank you I appreciate it so before I even knew

Financial Peace University or Ramsey

Solutions we were on the same page and I

didn't even know it before in high

school I had a negative experience with

debt with credit cards and so when I

moved out of my mom's house that's when

all of that came to light and paying off

those two credit cards that I had no

control over at the time it really

frustrated me and so I started learning

about finances and APR and interest

rates right out of high school and

turned into college and then I didn't

like college so I I had thankfully I had

got a scholarship I gave that back and I

decided to join the military to just

give me some stability until I decided

to to do what I wanted to do next and so

when I joined the military they sent me to El Paso Texas and the home church

that I found in El Paso offers FPU and

so I I learned more about Ramsay

Solutions learned more about financial liter literacy when I started FPU and

from there I mean my coordinator Mr Carlos and his

wife Mr Carlos is with us today but they

were spiritual mentors they were

Financial accountability Partners to me

and they led me through um they led me

through the course and I learned so much more so what branch of the military army

and what how old were you when you landed in El Paso I was 2020 wow wow 20

well thanks for serving our country y yes thank you and thank you God for

setting a mentor like Mr Carlos right on

a 20year old young dude in the Army

completely changed the trajectory of your life didn't they most definitely

yeah that church way to go Church what church is this hope City Community Church in El Paso Texas way to go hope

City you're living out your name baby most defitely you just laid out you laid out hope right here and did it that's EXA what's supposed to happen that's

exactly right wow you love somebody

enough to get all up in their life and

help them change the whole trajectory of everything and because you're looking at stuff that they're bringing you going oh

man oh man yeah I I can just see what I

can see it happening wasn't it most definitely yes sir man I love this

that's powerful that's powerful

dude you got a debt to pay back to young

guys later on you got to be Mr Carlos

the rest of your life man you you this

is awesome I love it I love it too so

what was uh what was the most difficult

adjustment after you so you're watching FPU you're engaged in the class and here

you are a young guy uh in the military

probably surrounded by a lot of other young guys with the first time they've ever had any money in their pocket most definitely what was the the big challenge for you to begin to adjust your lifestyle after you learned all

this after well it wasn't it wasn't much

of adapting to the principles because

these are all Godly principles and I grew up in the church so that part I understood and I was I was very excited

for what I really needed to adjust with

was making sure that I stayed focused speaking that there were young people

around me and even older people around me we're talking sergeants or you know

Sergeant First Class sergeant majors

that are are stunting so to speak like

they they have everything together and

me sitting over here eating on beans and

rice and what when I found out what

Moonlighting was uh I became a a travel

CNA I got that certification while I was

in the military and I got the document

signed by my commander and because of

that I was able to work overnight shifts

which were you know that helped and

that's what allowed me to be able to go

full force with you know paying off my

my vehicle at the time it jumped my

income up as well as you know when I

started my business after I got out the military and so uh I so you're how old

now I'm 25 how's it feel be free man oh

it feels it feels great you got of feel

so empowered you gotta feel like you got

muscle well it's not just that Mr Ramsey

but it's more so I have a responsibility

to pass it Forward yeah that's what I

yeah I've already called that out but yeah but I'm just saying you you're

you're incredible I'm so proud of you well done what a sharp young dude man

glory to God yeah amen glory to God Mr

Carlos and that church man that's good stuff right there that's the way it's supposed to be so um

you got a young private out there left home for

the first time doesn't know squat he's

listening to us right now what do you tell him well I would tell that private

specifically to to live below their means and to make sure that they

understand who they are and if they don't know who they are focus on who

they are and who they are because that

ultimately will help them not have to

feel that pressure and that burden of

living like everyone else yeah because it's not worth it that's

huge you nailed it right there one of the things we find among people that are able to build wealth and you discovered it and and are walking in it and you just gave that same advice back is that

you have to lose the need to impress

others yes sir when you quit carrying

what other people think Building Wealth becomes very easy because you really

need you spend almost no time on

Instagram very true because you don't

care what anybody thinks you're not posting look at me look at me look at me

cuz you don't care what people think just I I'm on beans and rice I'm going to get my overnight I'm going to get my CNA I'm going to jack this to

$84,000 a year I'm we'll get done here

in 36 months Mike drop man you're

incredible very cool very cool man neat

neat story I love it Quincy very very

well done all right so

um that advice you were just teach him

to yeah that's good advice very good advice what am I missing uh nothing I

just think I if you were going going to

uh share for people what it feels like

now on the other side of this you're about redo your debt free scream in about 20 seconds what does it feel like now as you're looking at your future it

feels bright is such an understatement I

was purposeful I was purposeful before

but it's it's even more empowering and

it feels like that I'm I'm creating a

legacy and and breaking generational

curses like never before is the American dream live and well to you it is live and well yeah thanks again for your service proud

of you way to go to that church and to

Mr Carlos and that's just beautiful by

the way he's here right is that Mr Carlos right there this is Mr Carlos and then this right here is Mr Allen Mr

Allen thankfully was able to make it because he lives here in Franklin Tennesse but he's the one that sold me

the my first house oh wow at 19 years

old oh very cool that's fun good good

way to go all right Quincy from St Louis

$55,000 paid off what a great story in

36 months making 24 to 85 count it down

let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 I'm

Deb free

[Applause] yeah that is what you call transformation he will not go back he

will not well done this is the ramsy

show

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today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi 93% of undergraduate private

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toay that's the letter Y

rey.com Ramsey might not be in all

states today's question comes from Andre

in Indiana I'm being managed out of my

job at my current employer when I realized what was happening I got ahead of it and have turned in my resignation

so I won't have a termination on my employment record I have several interviews lined up and I'm not worried about finding another position my question is how should I approach obtaining a letter of reference from my

current employer should I need it well

you're going to approach it now before you leave a building number one number two you're going to approach it with some gratitude and humility and just say

hey I appreciate this opportunity to to

be here and uh I would love if you feel

comfortable uh being a reference for me

and give me a reference letter upon request are you comfortable with that it's just a man-to-man conversation or

man-to-woman conversation and that's

about all you can do there and hopefully you've left well uh we don't know what

the situation here is but I'm such a

proponent for people leaving well uh

even if you feel like you're not supposed to be there anymore even if you feel like you've got some tension you feel like maybe it wasn't the best

situation for you uh leaving well and

not burning that bridge is always the

right way to go because you have to assume that any future employer is going

to call your past employer and so

humility and gratitude and class would

be the three ingredients in the ask and

by the way with every remaining second

you have at that place before you leave

act with class yeah smile act with class

do everything so um most employers Andre

do not give references on forers because

of the liability right um and so we

don't if someone calls here oh the only

thing we'll confirm is that they worked here between this date and that date and

that's the only thing we'll tell you we won't say whether they're awesome I didn't realize that that's good for me to know I did not uh I've heard of that I didn't know that because um we don't

want to get sued right because we

referred them or told or told somebody

you know this guy's a he he wasn't good

right and then you turn around you get you get all this other stuff on you so

um yeah we just and that's not that

unusual in the employment market we've

learned when we're trying to check references the uh it's tough to get

people to actually um give you a

reference I want to sidestep Ken I want

you to coach for a second here and and I

want to join you in it um let's pretend

that Andre I'm going to make up

something for Andre I don't know anything about him so this is all pretend sure okay let's pretend he's 26

and this is his second job and he says I'm being managed out of

my job now if you were working at Ramsay

we don't manage people out of a job we

do manage them if they're not

competent we're going to talk to you

about it and help you work on your competence we do manage you and talk to

you about it and create uncomfortable conversations if you're not handling

your relationships with others inside the building well if you're being a torp

okay and so

um being the being the potential

employer of someone in this

situation

uh I I wouldn't take the position I'm

being managed out yeah unless you've got

a pure political situation going on it I

mean just because someone tells you to

suck it up buttercup and get better that

is not being managed out that's correct

so if I were coaching Andre I would ask

a lot of detailed questions uh what does

that actually mean yeah and to the best

of my ability uh be able to discern well

you're not being managed out or maybe you are now what it's going to look like in this case if we're assuming what he's saying is that someone is basically

being um uh making you as uncomfortable

as possible not in a way of leading you

for growth uh and having an uncomfortable conversation with your growth in mind

but actually being a turd to you to get

you to quit because they don't want to fire you does that happen it does but in

this case that's bad leadership that's bad leadership so I would be asking enough questions to find out what's really going on and to your point if

they are holding you to a standard that

they hired you to keep you aren't being

managed out you're being held accountable for what they're paying you for so I would be diving into what's really going on and then coach from

there and in many cases uh and I'm going

to say this just because you're uncomfortable that's right doesn't mean you're being managed out that's correct

or held to a standard right and so what

we got to determine we're seeing this a lot with the younger generation um

accountability is really really hard we

had we had one a while back that just

couldn't seem to get to work on time wander in an hour late and we say you

know well you're creating stress by yeah

that's kind of like what we do here we create stress for you you need to be here on time if that's stressful just suck it up I mean that's I know I'm

sorry about your anxiety get your butt to work on time okay this is what we do

and so uh and that's about how it would

sound I mean we might be a little Kinder than that but you know it's a pretty

simple thing we open the building at a certain time and you need to be here by

then yeah you have to reframe that it's not creating stress right they say that

I'm not creating stress but it's like anyone that ever told me I'm not perfect

in the apple of my mother's eye now is

managing

that's that's just a bunch of crap

that's what I'm saying okay so now there's two possibilities you're you're being that I'm not saying that Andre is

but if you be careful when you're using

a phrase like I'm being managed out you are taking the position of victim and

you might not be the victim that's right

that's what I'm saying you might be you

might be the victim you might be a bunch of political junk and they're you know they're moving the chest pieces around trying to knock you over and get you out because they don't want you there and they don't have the uh the backbone to

just fire you right you know the metaphor I would use here Dave is are

you being coached or are you being

mistreated there you go and a coach and

I I I usually return to sports because I

grew up playing sports discomfort does not mean you're being mistreated yeah you know I I watch these NFL Training

Camps these are millionaires and the coach is pulling them off the off the field and they are coaching them up they're getting out those little Microsoft pads on the sideline and

they're showing these young quarterbacks

that franchise quarterbacks here's what

you did wrong on this interception that's not mistreating that kid that is

coaching that kid on what they expect of

them because they're paying them millions of dollars a year and the same

metaphor holds true in the workplace is

your leader coaching you are they M are

they mistreating you yeah that's true

exactly what I'm saying exactly what I'm saying because we spent a lot of time

and money to hire you and get you in

here that's that's right and so we're not going to to manage anybody out um

yeah it cost you more to replace them exactly we're going to try to help you make it that's exactly right but that may involve discomfort and it should it usually

doing something you've never done before or something you suck at and you got to get better is discomfort it it's not

comfortable it's outside your comfort

zone a quarterback feels really uncomfortable when he runs off the field

after throwing an interception because there's 75,000 people that are mad at

him and his head coach but guess what

that's the price of admission that that's the ticket to the B and me yeah

so step it up yeah so again I think

that's a good clarification are you being coached and if you are expect discomfort because that's what called growth that's right and you're moving up and in if you're being mistreated then

you're being managed out but either one of those could fall under this yeah phrase I'm not I I don't like the phrase

is what I'm saying it feels very victim

I felt the same thing when I saw it you know yeah and it but it it could be that

he's just he might be the victim of some

toxic politics it very well could that

happens all the time there's no question they're bad lead spineless leaders will

do stuff like that that's passive aggressive rather than just fire somebody that's right so you don't have that trouble here we're going to tell you this is what we're doing if it doesn't work we're going to tell you it didn't work we don't we're not

scared we're not afraid and we're not

mean and we're not unkind so hey guys

for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or the podcast it's about to end

you can get the entire show including

the next segment on the Ramsey Network

app which is free download it in the app

store or Google Play you can go out the

full video or audio podcast production

either one of the whole thing but certainly the last segment every day so

click in the not show notes and check it out we'd love to have you join us the

Ramsey Network app in the app store the whole thing's free we're not charging a thing for this this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show is happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue

watching you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over

for you so jump onto the app and let the

fun continue all right go on now don't

make it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

---

## 218. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 27, 2024)


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| **Video ID** | `84whUjGRXrc` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84whUjGRXrc) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:52 |

---

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

From Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Kamel and joined by my good friend Rachel Cruze and it's open phones this hour at 888-825-5225.

Help us help you take the right next step for your money and your life. Isaac

is going to kick us off in one of Rachel's favorite towns, Knoxville, Tennessee, home of the Vols. What's up, Isaac? Go Vols, Isaac. Absolutely, go Vols.

Good to talk to y'all. Pleasure. What's going on?

Yeah, so I'll start with the question then get some info on.

Uh um my question is should I liquidate some of my taxable investments to provide a larger down payment for a house? And if so, how much?

Um So I'll start with some info. We're on the equivalent of baby step 3B. We've got the emergency fund, no debt.

Uh we live in a house. Uh we're renting a house for about $500 a month. Wow.

And it would not be super Yeah, it's it's quite a blessing. We're uh staying in my in-laws' house. So great relationship there, thankfully. That explains it. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um so it would be not ideal to raise a child here. So we'd like to get into a home before we uh start down that path.

Um but we are not sure if we should use my wife's prospective income. She's not working right now. She's looking for a job. Not sure if we should use her uh future salary to um account for the 25% take-home pay recommended for monthly mortgage. Um so we've got $55,000 in liquid cash between a high-yield and a treasury and an additional 115 in those non-tax advantage investment accounts. Way to go. What are those What are those in, Isaac? I'm just curious. Is it mutual funds, stock? Yeah, they various mutual funds.

Yeah. Okay. All right. And you're saying should I use this money for the down payment? I personally would. What else were you saving this money for?

Well, it they didn't really have any uh specific earmarked past that. I mean we're doing other um tax-advantaged accounts like Roth IRAs, HSA, and employer Roth 401k.

So you're Are you investing 15% of your income right now into retirement accounts? Yeah, I think it's maybe a little bit over when we're uh all said and done with matching those accounts. How much will you need for the down payment?

Um well, in our area 300,000 for a house

is about the lower end. Anything less than that would require quite a bit of restoration. Um but in order to get that 25% of just my take-home pay cuz we're not sure what she's going to be making and if she'll be working long-term or not. Uh if we're going to have kids, we'd like for her to stay home if possible.

Um looking at probably around 100,000 or

more mark.

But it's a little bit of just trying to convince myself that I see all that in the investment accounts and then Well, that's Yeah, the problem when you when you invest for no reason, then you go ah I don't want to use this toward the house. But if I told you when you started, hey this is going to be your home down payment fund, you'd have no problem cashing it out.

Yeah. So I if I'm in your shoes, Isaac, and I've done this cuz our first townhome was $300,000 and we saved up and we put I think it was, you know, 40% down on that and paid the rest off quickly. I think you're going to be in the same boat. So if you liquidate this, you might have some capital gains, of course. Use some of the cash, leave your emergency fund fund separate. And then if you could put down 50%, I mean that'd be amazing.

Yeah, and I think the reality that your wife is going to get a job. So finding on average what you think she's probably going to make, I would add that to the equation cuz she I mean what kind of line of work is she in?

Uh well, she's got a master's in education, but we've decided for various reasons she's not going to go back to teaching in like a middle school. Um she is looking at a local university at UT.

Um possibly working there or some other companies in town. Just wanting to help um help people do do the work that they love. So she's she's very much um a supporting role kind of person when it comes to work. Not necessarily exactly the job.

It doesn't really matter too much. It's just who she's able to help is is what's really important to her. Okay, but she will be working is my point.

So it's going to give her enough time to find a job and while you guys are looking. So yeah, I definitely I think you're you're in a great position and I would take some of that money out of a mutual fund for sure for a down payment. Okay. Got you. And then I do have one quick follow-up question.

Um how much cash would you all recommend staying liquid? I heard that in the next in the 6 months or so after you get a house, it's going to be repairs like $1,000 a month is a good estimate. And we also want to have enough to pay cash for a car if one of our two older cars

goes out. I would just create a sinking fund. I you don't need to, you know, park 20 grand just for that. I would just start a sinking fund where every month you put away, you know, 100 bucks, 200 bucks to start covering some of that.

Maybe that car becomes a $500 sinking fund and 12 months from now you got six grand. So you you decide what's right for you guys and your family and when this car might kick the bucket or when you want to upgrade. But I think sinking funds are the easier way to do that.

Yeah, and if you need additional money, that's what the emergency fund's for, too, that you can use, Isaac. Some people Sounds like you'd be like, how could I not use this, right? That's a game people play. Well, you shouldn't have to use the emergency fund at all costs. Yeah, I know. Your savings muscle is incredible.

And so the hard part for you is just letting go of that and actually using it for your future goals.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good point. how how young are y'all?

Uh I'm 26 and she's 25. You guys are

unicorns. You're going to build so much wealth. I'm not concerned about letting go of these investments cuz you're going to build it right back up. And guess what? In a few years, you're not going to have a house payment. I can tell you're the kind of guy who's going to knock out this mortgage. You're going to replace that mortgage payment with investing. And before you know it, you'll have another 100 grand saved up.

All right. So way to go, man. Thanks for the call. guys. Yeah, thanks for the time. Love a Vols fan, Rachel.

Well, they're all smart. They're all smart, you know. It's here for the right team. You have wisdom. Wisdom everywhere. Spoken like a die-hard Vols.

Wow. It is good, though. But I think it's a good point you made that when you when you're putting money away, especially this is non-retirement, right? So if he's talking about 401k, Roth's, you know, 403b's, in that world

we would say no. We do not cash out retirement. But these investments that

are not retirements, but are, you know, whether you're out there and you have company stock or single stocks, mutual funds, um using that money towards something that's going to continue to up your net worth and up your quality of life, which is a down payment. And and almost, you know, a house I feel like is a great asset.

And this is why we always say to pay it off. Don't just leave, you know, if you have money to pay off your house when you're in baby step six, do it because it's like assured that your money's going to something worthwhile.

a forced savings plan with a kind of guaranteed rate of return. And once you get that paid off, I mean that's an amazing feeling where you now have the margin to do even more wealth building.

And so I think the hard part for a go-getter like our friend Isaac is I just want to keep saving. I don't want to let it go. But guess what? On the net worth statement, nothing changed. You just moved the money from here to a different house. And it's hard because you don't see the number going up like you did with your investments.

But what you do have is a lot of peace when that mortgage payment is such a small part of your world because you put 50% down. And you took on a reasonable mortgage. What most people do is say, I don't want to touch the investments. I'll take the whole thing out in the mortgage and I'll be fine. Yes. The mom

wants to stay home and they go, oh my gosh, I can't breathe. That $2,000, $3,000 mortgage payment now feels like it's too much. Feels like a lot. Yeah. And which is smart that they were even talking about, you know, you can't control everything in the future, right? So there's there's things that you have to make decisions on today that are wise. Um so her

knowing that I she'll probably get a house, right? But even the fam Some people are like, well, should we like wait till we start a family, all of this, right? But if you're in the market to buy, now is the time cuz prices are only going to continue to go up.

you're out of debt, you got the emergency fund, you got the pile of cash for that down payment, don't sit around cuz guess what? The Fed rates are going to go down, home prices could go up, and you're going to go, oh my gosh, I should have bought. I should have bought. Don't try to time the market. This is the Ramsey show.

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and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel, joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruze. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Rafael's up next in Kissimmee, Florida.

What's going on?

Hello. How are you? Doing well. How are you? Good. Good. Um, so, my wife and I can't

uh come to an agreement here on how to uh what to do with our motorcycle loan that we have. Oh, this is a fun one.

Rachel loves settling debates.

I love motorcycles, too. Who do you think is right?

Honestly, I I can't answer that. Okay.

Smart man. Yes. Okay, what's going on? What's the What's the issue?

Okay, so, I just think uh I I have an employee uh

stock purchase plan. Um, it's going to

vest, I think, in December. I'll have about $13,000 in there.

Um, I just tell her I'd rather leave that in there and get a loan to

figure out what what the upside down is, cuz I I want to get out bonus as I can.

And instead of owing 23, let's say I'm upside down by 10,000.

Um, I can get a personal loan for 10,000 and knock that off um

fast as possible, I guess. saying no, liquidate the stocks, and let's not go into debt.

Be completely debt-free.

Uh yes. Is this the only debt you guys have? Are there Is there more?

No, I have a personal loan of 20,000.

And you want to get more personal loans.

Mhm. Yeah, I see.

I'm just walking through the train of thought here. Now, I love that you're wanting to trade down your big debt for a smaller debt, but I like your wife's thinking more of we could be completely debt-free instead of you know, struggling to pay this next 10 grand off while trying to pay the other 20 grand off. Plus, when that When you have that volatile single stock, I mean, that thing could drop.

And so, I love the idea of using this as a blessing. You got that stock at a discount, let's sell it. And uh you know, it'll probably be in minimal gains.

And be out of debt completely.

Okay. What's your thinking in keeping keeping the stock? Do you just like to see the number go up?

Well, I So, my thing is I I I make 80,000 uh 80, 85.

Um, and I I just tell her wouldn't it be better once we if I do get the loan and I knock it down quick with her

I guess I want to just leave the money in there, so when we get debt-free, I can go buy like, say, a a cheaper $5,000

uh I'm really not that good with budgeting.

Uh clearly, obviously, I'm in debt, unfortunately, but we we want to prove our family wrong that there is a way to be debt-free. She's on board, I'm on board, too. I I just don't know

um how to tackle this.

Well, the best way to prove them wrong is to become debt-free and stay debt-free. Would you not agree?

Yeah. Yeah, I I agree. Are you guys um your wife Are you Do you guys have your money combined? Like, are you cuz you said I'm making 85,000. Is she working as well?

Yeah, she she gets about um $800 every 2 weeks take home. I get

about 26 every 2 weeks.

Okay. What does she do for a living?

Uh she uh She's a full specialist like in uh facials, nails, um etc. Things like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. And And are you guys um Yeah, does she have any debt?

She does, but that That's like a whole I I would say if you wanted to throw her thing in there, too, we're looking at maybe 30,000 on top of that, but I've been trying plus 30. You have a personal loan for 20, you also owe how much on the motorcycle?

Uh 23. So, you have 43 there, and then

she has 30? What's her 30 in? Um it would be like miscellaneous

like uh self One of them would be like Verizon, another one would be student loans. Okay. Most of it is student loans, but Okay, so, Rafael, let me tell you this. I love love and very encouraged that your goal, both of you, want to prove people wrong and not just That's not the goal to prove them wrong, but to prove them wrong to be debt-free, right?

So, you both want to become debt-free. You both want to live a debt-free lifestyle. So, what we have found is the fastest way to get from where you are, which is just the starting off point, to actually accomplishing that is a couple of things. First and foremost, you will win I'm going to say three, four, five times faster when you guys work together as a team.

Your language is still a hers over here, mine, my income, her income. When you start you and her start actually looking at numbers together, that combination of combining finances, working out of the same bucket, seeing this together, tackling all of this together, regardless of whose {quote} {unquote} debt it is, it you're going to get so much momentum by just simply doing that. It's unbelievable. And I'm telling you that because when you start doing a budget together, which we're going to give you uh EveryDollar Premium after this call, but when you guys sit down together and you start doing a budget together, and you start cutting expenses together, and you start making decisions about what you're going to have for dinner together, because you're not going out to eat, like, things start to really pick up speed when there is an emotional attachment that you guys are a team.

And again, that starts with the numbers.

than you are now. And then number two, you're trying to do too many things to

get the goal that you want. And it's And it's way less complicated than what you're making it to be. So, everything we talk about is is to liquidate everything but retirement accounts to pay off debt.

So, that would mean liquidating the stock, putting it towards the debt.

That would be selling some stuff, figuring out what you're going to sell the motorcycle, which is great. But when you start doing these things, and you guys are making 100 and around 105 a year, um it's a it's amazing the progress you guys can make when you are focused intensely on one thing, and that is getting out of debt. It's not trying to get you know, do retirement over here, it's not trying to like get some liquid cash over there. Like, it's not trying to do 18 different things.

Together, your number one goal is to get out of debt, and that's maybe working extra, selling stuff, cutting expenses together. Like, I mean, it's all of this snowball effect that occurs.

that's going to fuel this behavior change, which is key. That personal finance, it is 80% behavior. It is only 20% head knowledge. So, you're going at this more from a head knowledge standpoint and less of a behavior, and I want you to you know, flip those two. And just try it. Try it our way. And And if you look at it in 6 months, and if in 6 months That's right. And in 6 months, if you're like, this isn't working at all, you can do it your way. But try something different.

Yes. Yes. Awesome. And um just one last

question. I I heard you say you like motorcycles, too. Oh, I was kidding. Sorry. Will this

Will this uh budget app or like, will this teach me once we do finish Baby Step 2, how when am I allowed to go buy a $5,000

motorcycle off of Facebook or Yep. When am I allowed to do these things and actually enjoy, you know?

It's simple. Once you have a foundation to where you have no debt and an emergency fund, that's when you move from this intensity to intentionality.

Where you go, all right, if I save up 500 bucks a month, in 12 months, I'll have $6,000 saved up to go buy a used motorcycle in cash. Do you see the difference there? Versus rolling up to the dealership and them going, "Hey, we got a nice shiny one over here, and that we can get your payment down." That's how broke people think. They think about how much down, how much a month. Rafael, from now on, is going to think like wealthy people.

How much can I afford it right now? If not, we got to act like an adult and say, "We can't do this right now." Yeah, and that's after paying off all of your debt and having a three or yeah, three to six month emergency fund saved.

And once you do that, you're good to go.

You're good to go. Take, you know, take a great vacation, buy a motorcycle, you know, you and your wife together deciding on some of these big purchases.

Um but that would be Yeah, that would be the time. So, it's going to be maybe maybe a year or two.

You know, a year, 2 and 1/2 years.

Uh but I'm telling you, you'll do it with so much more peace and enjoyment

and freedom than you will trying to Yeah. Continue to live this this lifestyle. And your your arguments and debates will change. It'll be like, "Where are we going to go on vacation this year?" instead of, "Okay, what debt are we going to pay off first, and how are we going to do it?" So, the fights get better as you get to a better place financially, Rafael.

So, let me encourage you with that. And uh I I If you follow the things that Rachel just told you, you were going to have so much freedom. Not even 2 and 1/2 years from now, a few months from now.

Yeah, so, hold on the line, uh and Taylor's going to pick up, and we want to give you guys EveryDollar Premium and FPU. We'll throw in Financial Peace University, because I think so thank you. You know, learning some of these basics you two together watching these videos and and kind of going through this thing is going to be really really helpful. Thanks for the call Raphael. More of your calls coming up triple eight two five five two two five. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We're glad you're with us. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze.

Listen, I know nobody wants to talk about it, but I think it's cool to talk about insurance. In fact, I made a free 5-day video series called confidence in your coverage and I guide you through the different types of insurance so your insurance can finally make sense. And if you know me, you like I like brevity. I like it short, punchy, funny, so I'm not going to overwhelm you with nerdery.

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Catherine's up next in San Francisco.

What is happening, Catherine?

Hello. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Hey, sure, happy to help. What's going on? Um so, basically I have a 401k from a

previous job um and I was wondering if I should roll it into my current 401k or I also have two annuities that are variable annuities.

Okay.

How long ago was this job in this 401k?

How long it's been sitting there?

Um it's been sitting there for probably about 5 years.

It's time, don't you think? It's collecting dust over there.

It is.

So, generally the the best thing to do would be to roll it over to an IRA and do a direct rollover. So, what you don't want to do is withdraw the money. You don't want to see the money, you want to directly put it into that next retirement vehicle. And if you have a great 401k with great options and low fees, you could roll it directly to that new 401k. The difference is the the IRA is outside of your employer and you have way more options.

And it's in your control. So, we like the IRA for that reason. Was it traditional or was some of it Roth?

It was traditional. Okay. So, you want to make sure you do a direct rollover to a traditional IRA and that way you'll have no no kind of fees or penalties there.

Okay, perfect. And then I do have some money in savings, but I have it kind of in just some of those saving apps and I was wondering if you think I should roll it into a high yield savings account or one of the money market.

Yeah, high yield savings account right now are actually outperforming money money market accounts on on most basis, but you can what I would do is and what we've done is look at look at an online bank cuz usually you can get a better rate of return especially just for a high yield savings. So, I like that option the best

because I mean money market accounts, yeah, for the most part they they act, you know, pretty similarly to high yield savings, but what I have found at least in the last probably, I don't know, 12 months or so, we saw better rates of return with a high yield personally, but do some of your research and look, but yeah, just looking at it like a Ally Bank or you know, sometimes of Cuz you're getting like 0.01% right now interest on your savings, I'm guessing. Yeah, what app is it in?

Yeah, it's essentially like the like Acorns and Capital. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah, I

would be more I would I would be a little bit more aggressive with it. Yeah. So, yeah, I would look at an online bank just a good high yield savings and making sure that you know, some of them can come with like limitations meaning like you have to have a certain number or a certain amount in order to open it and all of that, but Yeah, you want to look for one that's good with no fees, no minimum balances, all of that. And there's a ton out there.

And essentially I'm kind of wondering is that money accessible when it's in those savings accounts cuz I feel like I'm going to be able to need to access it.

Yeah, it is. It may take one to two business days we found to take money out of our high yield savings and transfer it to our checking account. So, and some of them will come with check writing privileges even out of it and a debit card, but you can only do up to like five transactions a month. So, yes, you can get to it for sure, but it's just a good place to put long-term savings.

It would not be a account an account that you would use for everyday transactions, but something that you're like, oh yeah, that money can just sit and grow.

Yeah, cuz the only reason I kind of have savings right now is well, I'm about to move somewhere where rent is going to be higher. So, I just was also wondering if eventually if I kind of went through the savings, which obviously hopefully not going to happen, but then can I just close out the account?

Yes. Yeah. Just pull the money out and close it. Yeah.

Without penalties? Okay, awesome. Yeah, thanks for the question, Catherine.

Next up, we've got Hannah in Chicago.

What's happening, Hannah?

Hey, how are you guys? Doing well. How are you? I'm good. You guys are my favorite duo, so I'm happy to see you both.

So, my question is I have a truck loan.

I owe 6,000 on it right now. I can get

about 9,000 for private sale. So, I was

wondering if I should sell it, clear the car note, and then be able to pay off my remaining two personal loans and be debt free or continue working the debt snowball method. What are you going to drive if you sell it?

Um I'm not sure. I haven't got that far, but I do work in town and I do have a work truck. If my place of employment would allow me to drive that, I've thought that might be an option. Hannah, I probably wouldn't considering how low of cost that this is.

Like if you told me you know, that it was, you know, 30,000 or something, but I'm like, you know, if you sell this, you would cash out 3,000 and then you go buy a $3,000 car and the difference between a $3,000 car and a $6,000 car isn't like crazy different, right? I mean, I just I think you'll be going into a similar type of vehicle. So, I would just from simplicity's sake, I would just put this in the debt snowball. if you like the truck, the truck's not the the major problem here.

Um I have a personal loan for 2,500 and then a very small consumer debt of 900.

So, I'm almost there. I think I'm just I'm ready to be debt free and I'm getting so close. I was considering it, but Yeah, you're you're not nothing's on fire here. You're not in a desperate situation. I just don't want you turning around and going, well, all the cars I I that are reliable are going to be 6,000.

Now I need to come up with the extra three. And so, it's not a huge part of your debt and I would just knock it out and keep the car. What's your income? That's what I thought, too. I make 57 a year. Awesome. Well, you'll be there in no time. I know, you're doing great.

I think so. Yeah, knock out that 900 and that 25 first and then just start attacking the truck.

Awesome. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Absolutely, happy to help. All right, let's keep it moving. Jonathan is in Lexington, Kentucky. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you so much for all that you guys do. Happy to be on the show.

Appreciate that. How can we help today?

So, I'm in a really really good position all things considered, debt free uh out of college and making more than I'm spending. Uh where I live is a fairly

uh low cost of living area, but my question is now that I have 10k

saved, everyone is encouraging me to use that 10k to get a loan for a down payment for a lot

and build a rental cabin and then uh sell that, turn a big profit. And I figured you guys might have Are you talking about like three knucklehead friends of yours?

My broke brother-in-law, yeah. Okay.

Just feels like a very oddly specific goal.

Well, I'll tell you why. In In the place that I live, it's very high in tourism, and so a lot of people have have made money by by virtue of rental cabins. What's your um Yeah, what's the pri- what's your primary home um situation?

Well, I live uh I have a fantastic living situation uh thanks to my employment. So, I I have

I don't pay anything for where I live.

Uh and I live by myself, so it's amazing. Uh but where I live is heavily

it's a tourism area, and that's that's business year-round. And so, every rental cabin that's filled is bought. And so, the question is with only 10,000, you know, having outright I mean You're Yeah. Yeah, you're break- you're breaking up, too.

I We can't We can't get Okay, my my fear, Jonathan, is I want to make sure you're taking care of yourself. So, the fact that you're you're living somewhere that you're not paying anything or getting any equity, if you leave this job, you'll probably end up having to rent somewhere for a bit. So, I almost on the side would take that 10K.

Yes, I'll be here for a long time as long as I can without screwing it up.

Okay, but there's but I want you I want Jonathan to own a home eventually because I don't want you to get to 50 years old and not have any money to go and buy a home, and then you have to go take out a $300,000 mortgage. So, um so, I would be thinking about my living situation first and foremost cuz that housing part of your budget eventually will be the largest part. So, no, I would not take 10 grand and go into debt for a rental cabin, even though it's the best market.

shiny. I mean, this is basically get-rich-quick for your area, and I know it's worked for a few folks. You're not in a place to be a real estate investor quite yet. So, just hang on, keep saving up, get your own place, and later on in life, we can look at that option. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze this hour. Today's Ramsey Network app question is from Melissa. What does Melissa have to say?

She says, "I am single and about to move into my first apartment. My question is, how do I keep from spending foolishly since I'm now responsible for supporting myself. I would like to have an accountability partner to keep me straight, and I'm not sure how to find one. I have been hurt by people in the past, so I spend money to fill in the emotional gap." Wow, very self-aware.

Yeah. Melissa, I need to change that way of thinking, so any advice you have would be fantastic.

Well, therapy is a I think a great start. I think we need to figure out what's at the root of all of this and start to kind of heal from that. And I do love the idea of an accountability partner as another thing, and that could be friends. I'm They don't have to be like your best friends physically.

I mean, we have a great Facebook group, the Ramsey Baby Steps community, and they're always encouraging each other in there, and they'll say, "Hey, someone talk me off the ledge. I'm going to go add to cart over here." Um and then the budget is really it's kind of a built-in accountability partner.

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously there's pain from some levels of relationship.

I'm not sure which kind that um that

you've yeah, been burned by, and so I think sometimes that hurt and that rejection does come out sideways, and it looks different for for everyone. And in your case, being I mean, very self-aware, that yeah, you spend money to probably keep yourself busy or to keep yourself feeling good. And I think there's a reality of understanding that, you know, what's the What is the truth of what money does? And you know, the it's been scientifically proven that buying stuff does not fulfill you and does not give you literal happiness or joy long-term.

It just doesn't.

I think there needs to be some good input in your life, and that's where like therapy, George said that. And even I don't know what Even the word accountability partner, I don't know why, George, it kind of makes me kind of makes me Yeah. So, only therapy. Instead of accountability partner, have a good friend in your life who loves you a lot, who will ask you questions, who will dig in, who wants to know your story, sit with you in the hurt and the messiness of life.

want to hang out with that person. But here's the other side. Don't have friends that also spend frivolously and are always going out and are broke.

Like, put people around you respect your boundaries and respect what you're doing. And who also want to grow. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

So, yeah, having having just yeah, people in your life, but it's going to take time for you, I think, you know, to to build that trust because of obviously what's happened to you in the past. And the beautiful thing is about moving into your first apartment is you got bills now. So, you kind of have to go the bills have to get paid. There's not going to be a whole lot of extra, you know, margin just to go spend frivo- frivolously, and that's where the budget becomes even more important once you gain that independence.

But good for you.

That's impressive. Okay, let's get to the phones. Dave is in Charlotte. What's happening, Dave?

Hi guys. I'll try to make this short and sweet. I have a $1.5 million house

that's in an area where the houses sell normally in less than 7 days at or above asking price. And you guys have made very made me very cost-conscious, so it's hard for me to justify to pay a 6% commission or $70,000 for a house that's going to sell in less than 7 days, basically just to get it listed on the MLS.

So, what are my um options? I know a real estate attorney said he would charge me $6,000 to do the actual close. But in terms of working with agents, can you shed any light on how I can minimize the commissions?

Well, they've they've changed the structure recently, um and it's kind of

become an, you know, a big bubble effect within the real estate world, but I think a lot of agents are still uh kind

of abiding by that 6% the 3% 3% split.

So, um I mean, if you're using someone for their services, um I mean, I guess it it's now it can be dependent on the agent choosing to do on the commission side because it has changed in recent months.

But overall, I mean, you're using their services, so you will be yeah, paying some level of a commission, I'm sure.

Um if you want to do sell by owner, you know, you could do that where it's just you um doing it, then you wouldn't have a an agent involved, but usually we find statistically speaking, you'll make less as a private seller versus if you actually use an agent. But so, I would use an agent, and I understand the frustration around it, and some agents are changing their commission structure because of everything that's happened in recent months. So, you could talk to them and see what they would say and what they were what Yeah, what they're requiring for their services.

Yeah, cuz I I recognize there's some value to an agent handling some things, but I recently had an inspection done, so, you know, I think it would be a relatively very clean sale in a very short period of time. And you know, for me to pay somebody $70,000 for a week's work. What did you buy the house for?

Uh 550.

So, you're making a million dollars off of this. Right. That's pretty wild.

So, letting go of 25 years. Yeah, you've hung on to it, and that's appreciated. Why are you guys selling?

Uh we're just downsizing and and we're tired and moving to another house. Okay, that's great. Here's what I'll say about the agent. I think if you if you're just looking to get it on the MLS, and that's all the agent's good for, then you need to find a better agent. A good agent's going to make up for what they cost you.

Uh and that might be, you know, if you went for sale by owner, you might get 1.43. We don't know. And if you work with a great agent, maybe they get you, you know, you start an a bidding war, and you got 1.57.

Right? Right. So, that's part of it.

I just went through a tax deal with the city, so I've done a pretty extensive study of comps, you know, in the neighborhood and in the zip code, so, you know, the data is pretty readily available in terms of how long they sell and what, you know, how close to asking price, so that's usually the value that a agent brings, but in this case I'll just have to look at other options, I guess. like you should go into real estate, Dave. You've You've done all the work, man.

Yeah, I I know it hurts and it really I'm the same way cuz I'm super frugal, but the one thing I'm willing to spend money on is a good agent for the largest transaction of my life, which I assume this is for you. that, but like I say, knowing the the area so well and, you know, knowing that what what they're selling at um Yeah. I mean, there's ways you can negotiate.

You know, let's say your your agent who's going to sell, well, that becomes your buying agent and they end up taking 1 and 1/2% off.

Yeah, yeah. And so, that stuff happens all the time, so I would get in touch and if you want to kind of that some, we've got Ramsey trusted real estate agents. Go to ramseysolutions.com/agent

and see who's out there. Interview them.

See what they're willing to do and see what they're willing to offer.

I'll reach out for a couple of them. Thanks for your time. Absolutely. It's a great question. I love that you're thinking this way and it's what's helped Dave build this level of wealth. Well, and to have a mediator between you and the buyer and all of that, right? I mean, like it's just they take they take a lot of the grunt work out for you.

They do they really do help. Absolutely.

Thanks for the question. Andre's up next in Houston, Texas. How can we help, Andre? Um yes, I'm 28 years old with 20K in

savings and I wanted to know how to invest it.

All right. Give us a little bit more about your financial picture. What's your income?

Um about like 29,000

a year. Okay, and do you have any debt?

Uh no, sir. Okay. And is this your all of your savings, the 20K? Does this include like your emergency fund?

Um uh no, not really. I have uh maybe like a couple more stashed away in another uh bank account, but it's just like maybe like 2,000. So, you have about $22,000 liquid cash in these accounts. Okay.

Well, here's the deal. Once you're following this Ramsey plan and you're out of debt, the next step is to build a buffer between you and life called an emergency fund. And we recommend 3 to 6 months of expenses.

So, for you that might be, I don't know, 10, 15,000. Yeah, are you single, Andre?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, so you would probably be more on that 3-month side versus the 6-month.

Um so, yeah, I would kind of figure out for you what would be about 3 months of savings to keep you afloat if something happened to your income.

Um and making sure you have that and then, yeah, the next step would be investing. And so, I, you know, would look into things um you know, like a a retirement type vehicle with investing, so a Roth IRA. If you have an earned income, you can apply for a Roth IRA and that's a great option. You can invest up to $7,000 in that a year and that grows

tax-free. So, there's a lot of benefits to that that will count, which is great.

So, I would probably start there. Does your employer um have a 401k by chance as a benefit? Um they have a savings plan uh I think it

is. Okay. Yep, so I would look into that, too. Maybe um on Monday go and ask them about that and so, I would I would do the match for the 401k, but I would get that emergency fund in a high-yield savings account and then look into opening up a Roth IRA.

Thanks for the call, Andre. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Rachel Cruze, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat and you, America. Thanks for hanging out with us.

We'll be back before you know it.

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From Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze, who is also my co-host on SmartMoney Happy Hour, which you can check out on the Ramsey Network.

We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Call us up. We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Justin kicks us off this hour in Santa Clarita, California.

What's going on, Justin?

Hi there, guys. How are you doing? We're doing well. How can we help?

So, my question is is kind of a detailed question. I'm curious

what you guys give for advice when

an amazing job is in a different location

than a happy life, I guess, would be the

um primary question there and it's I guess there you live in California. Is this job elsewhere?

The job is in Santa Clarita and the kind

of where I envision a happy life is about 3 hours north of there, so it's a

You envision a happy life or what what does that mean?

So, the location that's about 3 hours

away is where family is, where my significant other

is. Well, that's a difference maker.

Yeah. Buried the lead there. Okay, so what is this amazing job and why can it not exist in that area?

So, I'm a veterinarian and um about a year and a half ago now, I actually moved to where I currently am working

um in order to take this job because

where I was working before had

wasn't quite making even life ends meet, even as a veterinarian. So, you weren't getting paid enough.

Correct. And and even then I was and the

the work-life balance just wasn't there.

I was averaging like 100-hour work weeks. Good night.

Um now I've got I found an incredible job,

but I have found somebody that is

you know, that and we've been dating for about a year now back where my family is from and where I would like to eventually move to, but now I've in the quandary of probably not finding a similar job lifestyle that I have found. Have you looked at vets in that area?

I have and they um they can offer

similar, but it's not I guess it's kind of one of those things where it's hard to turn down what I am currently making and

the fact that I only have to work 4 days a week um for what I'm currently making in order to think they would negotiate if you said, "Hey, I'd love to apply. Here's kind of what I'm looking for"?

I think it would be reasonable, but I

um it just I don't of living lower 3 hours north?

It's actually considerably higher. Okay, so that'd be a tough life move financially. Yeah. Do you have any debt?

No, no debt. Awesome.

I mean, I'm moving if I'm you. I'm like there's I mean, you know, I think part of of having a happy life, I think a job is a big part of it, right? You spend on average 40 hours a week if you're working 40 hours a week.

They Maybe 100 if you're Justin.

Yeah, yeah, we don't want to go back to that, Justin. Um but the other the other elements of your life, your family, relationships, I mean, all of that um

you can't pay for, you know, like those are things that are they're they're priceless. And so, what is going to create a healthy overall

life and I think, I don't know, for me

it wouldn't be staying in a city 3 hours away from the people that I love um

unless she's willing to Will she move to you when you guys get married?

She would um but I think in it's the same situation where her her family and

her job is where I would potentially be moving back to.

Um so, it you know, as far as the logistics, it you know, it doesn't make

a whole lot of sense. Sure. Sure. Is there a world where you move out there, you're working, it's not the dream pay necessarily or dream hours, but you eventually could start your own practice?

That would be something that I and I'm actually starting to do a little bit.

I'm starting to create my own mobile practice in the

basically back home.

I would start exploring the options. I'd start calling up and doing some Zoom interviews or next time you're over in the area, meet with them and stop by and get a vibe for what the options are and then you can kind of figure out, but I think right now we're making a lot of assumptions about what life is going to be like either way and I like to have a little more facts.

Yeah. Well, I guess so well, so I guess if I had more facts and I don't know if like a a you know, salary numbers anything like that anything that that would be useful to kind of add into this

conversation goes.

What are you making now in this amazing job where you make crazy money and work four days a week?

Right now it's about 440,000

a year. That'll do it for four days a week? Yeah. And what would you make?

Probably around 200 is what I'm getting as far as my interviews go that I have and people I've talked to. What does she make a year?

Right now around 40.

Okay.

you guys together said hey after we're married why don't we live here for two or three four years see if we enjoy this area like it would be worth taking a shot for this amount of money. if you just stacked up hundreds of thousands a year and you were able to move and start your own practice That's right yeah yeah yeah and maybe you have a goal that will eventually want to be up there but because of the situation that you're you're in right now but again that that would be speeding up the relationship and I don't want to do that on basis of money either right so there's some factors that come into play and I also would not move for someone that I'm not married to either or engaged to at least now I know your family's there too which is great right that could be a pull.

Yeah or a certain dollar amount or a certain time frame or something but I think that it's significant enough to have that conversation would she would she move at all where you are?

She would and I guess that's maybe part of the maybe a part of the major question is with we are currently both renting and if we

were to move one way or the other like I guess when I don't know yet. you would yeah I would I mean you you can afford just to keep renting while you guys go through the engagement process and then once you're married buy a house together don't do that before you're married it's a disaster legally and all of that if you guys ever break up so I would use the season you're in to just stack up so much cash that whatever the next adventure is it's going to be a breeze even if it means a pay cut.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze our

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Today's question comes from Nathan in Kentucky. I am 14 years old and I was just wondering what is a good way to try and become to try and become at least a hundred dollar oh gosh a hundred million wait a hundred a hundred million million air by the time I'm I didn't know that was a term. I didn't I wasn't sure either I was just wondering because I discovered you guys on TikTok look at us George and I thought to myself that y'all had good information and I just wanted to know if it's possible thank you for your time.

Wow.

friend Nathan here Rachel it's not looking good. a hundred million Do you want to know what it takes Rachel? I would actually would love to know. Okay it takes get this you would have to invest from the age of 14 to the age of 30 and we're going to assume a 10% rate of return okay from 14 to 30 you'd have to invest every single month $220,000.

So there's the true answer Nathan but because now your hope has been stolen from us Okay do do do a do a millionaire do one million one million dollars. to a million okay well that's would be a that would be what you say to a 2000 a month at that point?

220 grand was for a hundred million so if we take it down to 20 grand that's 10 million that's pretty good.

I'm going to go five grand a month would get you to two. So two million. Just about 20 Yeah just about 2200 bucks a month.

all right. From 14 to 30. Okay all right. That's that's still a lot of money for a 14 year old to be socking away. At least got a bullseye we can look for okay so Nathan I would encourage you

to get beyond this like label of quote

unquote millionaire cuz I think a lot of people believe if I just had this amount of money Whether it's one million or a hundred million.

character question there of why do you want to have this millionaire status and to go ahead and bust the bubble that just because you reach that does not mean that life is suddenly going to be perfect for you. That's like that's the myth out there you know. Oh yeah. Well and If I can just do this and by 30 you know there's like kind of that whole the fire movement and it's like I work I'm not going to do anything with my life but save money.

happen by this age then my life is over and I've failed. yes. It's insane so I just I rebuke all of the get rich quick even if it's with decent intentions and you want to do it the less risky way there's just no good reason that any human needs to make hundreds of millions or even I need to have a million by this age. And the truth is Nathan if you follow the Ramsey baby steps you're going to get there by 30 your net worth will be a million dollars or more just by staying out of debt stacking up cash buying a home getting the house paid off investing 15% of your income over time compound growth is going to take over and do the heavy lifting for you.

So that's the not fun answer but I do think we need a new book from Dave called baby steps 100 millionaires. Looked it up it's called centimillionaires the term. Centimillionaire that's right. Oh so it is a thing.

Centimillionaires you have a hundred million or more.

I I wasn't your words not mine that's all I'm saying but thank you for the you know Nathan it was a good brain exercise even if it was an pretty wild

question It's great though good for you Nathan. that a 14 year old thinking that way he's going to be the the world changer out there cuz it's going to take being an entrepreneur to make that kind of money or even close.

Yeah. you're not going to make that as a W-2 employee likely but I wish you the best maybe Nathan will be calling in at 30 being like hey just so you guys know I have a hundred million. I'm a wait what was it called again centi yeah. You know Alex Hermosi you know that super beefcake dude we've had him on the show and he's he's a centimillionaire and he's an entrepreneur that's how he did it and he's about my age so call me a failure.

Many many do many do you're still working George. I'm here I'm doing it.

I'm kidding. All right let's go to the phones Einar

is in Oslo Norway we're going international. going overseas here we go.

What's going on Einar?

Hi guys it's it's such an honor to talk to both of you I'm great uh What time is it there?

Right now it's 24 past nine p.m. All right thanks for

staying up with us. Appreciate it thanks for the call. What's your question?

Thank you. Okay, my question for is how do my wife and I decide the amount and the amount of our personal line items in the budgets?

So, I'm a firm believer that equal isn't always necessarily fair

because for instance a haircut for her is much more expensive than mine. Unless

you're George Camel. It is the opposite in the Camel household.

But yes, it's a good point.

Yes, and you two are the perfect couple to answer this with woman and man as spender and saver. So Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the

amounts totally could be different and I'll be honest Winston and I well, I think we may budget the same amount but I spend mine every month. And Winston probably rarely blows through his fun money. Yeah, he may I don't even yeah. So,

we probably technically could budget less for him and he would be fine. I mean he wouldn't be spending it. in the budget if you split? I was going to say it is equal in the budget. I'm you're making me question why do we do that? Why do we not just correct it to what's reality in the Cruise household? I'm not sure. Cuz I don't think Winston would care if you lowered his amount. No, and if Winston wanted to buy something like yeah. That's how it goes.

Once a year Winston goes, I want to buy this and he just does it. Yeah, he spends all of his money on fun money. ooh, how much fun money do I have this month? I would I would agree. I do not think that it has to be equal but I would I and I say that cautiously hearing

people that are listening or watching us now that are not in your position cuz you're saying that yours would be lower than hers, correct?

Correct. Yes, so I think that is that is totally fine. But I don't want some crazy spouse out there listening and being like oh my gosh. Mine gets to be higher and you should lower yours.

Yeah, like like like yeah. my hurt on the show. They said the husband should be lower. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, I don't want to like create you know, conflict between married couples out there. But if the reality is is that you're naturally a saver and you're not going to spend as much as she spends, then yeah, I think it's reality should reflect the budget. So, I would for sure and not feel bad about that cuz you're right. I mean as technically speaking women I think do spend more.

George is the exception here. You got the right co-host in the other thing. I don't have any hobbies.

Exactly. And coffee.

And coffee but I don't need to go crazy there. more than Do you spend more than Whitney though a month? I wouldn't say in fun money cuz I don't again I don't have fun. I went to a movie last night and that was like, wow, I'm really living.

That's it. So, I and her can you give us a number here? Like I don't know what's the what's the currency in Norway? Is it a kroner? krone? Yes, correct. But to keep it simple, we can

just divide the total amount in Norwegian kroner to by 10 and we got the

Got it. the dollar amount. Okay. Okay.

We bring in around 6,000 a month and for

for the next month we set up actually equal so 200 each.

But last month we set up five

450 for her and 250. And it worked out.

Yeah, sure it worked out but she feels kind of guilty.

See, that's something we can deal with outside of this but it has nothing to do with the budget. It's she just she feels like it should be more equal and she feels bad spending but the budget is permission to spend. It is and it should be a reflection of reality and the reality is her you know, what she spends per month is going to be more than yours and and that's that's totally okay regardless of who brings in the money.

Put it all together. You say what is our reality of our life and that's how we're going to budget.

Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruze. Just about everything costs more these days and health care is no exception. So, if you're looking at your health care options during open enrollment, be sure to check out Christian health care ministries. CHM is not health insurance.

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That's chministries.org/budget.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruze. The number to call is 888-825-5225.

Diana's up next in San Jose. Diana, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi yes, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, I have a question. So, I'm 28. I

have no debt and I've been saving for a house for about 5 years and I'm not

seeing no results and I just wanted to ask what else could I be doing so I can afford a home in San Jose?

Where are you seeing a lack of progress?

Is it in the savings account or is it what the amount of money will do for the housing market?

It's the housing market. So, I have a full-time job and I make about 100k a year. Cool. And I have about 100k saved in cash.

But it seems too little to buy a house here in San Jose

and the reason I would like to stay here is because all my family up here. Mhm.

Yeah, I mean it is so difficult Diana because I mean you are in what the top three highest real estate markets? I mean the Bay Area. It's like that Miami, Manhattan. I mean it it is the most expensive real estate

market. I mean it is. So, it's going to take you on average twice as long as you

know, someone living in Nebraska and buying a house. So, even though you make 100 grand which is great, it's not crazy money for out there even. I mean your your cost of living is going to is high and the market is. I think it's one of those things Diana that it's I'm it is frustrating and I think you know, you're going to have to map out

and just say okay, I'm in this for the long game and it may be you know, that I'm 32 when I own a home and not 29 or 30, right? Like you like bumping it out multiple years is probably what's going to have to happen and I'm assuming you're you're looking at like a reasonable situation for yourself

cuz are you single?

I well, I have a significant other but we're not married and I don't want to buy a house together right now. Maybe in the future. For sure. So, I think a a way to get into the market if you can is even a a condo or a town home.

It may not be a single family home just to get yourself in a position to even own something in that area, right? It may not be a single family home right now. need to be further out of the area.

Yes, so my work is in San Jose and my commute is about 15 minutes. 15 minutes.

Okay. So, let's say you were going to do a half hour commute. Would housing be cheaper out there?

Yes, maybe in Gilroy or Morgan Hill, I'm guessing but it's getting more expensive cuz people are moving out of San Jose

to afford a home. They've got the same idea as you.

They're going, well, this is where I can afford and therefore supply and demand.

So, here's what I would do Diana. I would sit down and go what am I what are my non-negotiables? What must be true and what can I compromise on? And that might be hey, I'm willing to get a fixer-upper but I'm going to live in the part of area I want to live in or it's going to be it's going to be brand new cuz that's what I want but it's going to be further out.

Or it's going to be at the town home instead of the single family. So, I think we need to start going, listen, the reality is it's an insane area to live in.

home in San Jose by for a single woman.

You know what I mean? And that might change one day as you get married and your spouse makes 100 grand and now we're making 200 grand or more. Well, now we can upgrade over time. So, it doesn't have to be a forever decision but I also don't want you sitting on the sidelines for another 5 years.

Okay.

Is that helpful?

Yes. Okay. I wish we were Thanks for the call. We could have like a secret life hack good news. I mean I'm telling you California real estate y'all. You get your Southern California, you get your Bay Area. It's just I mean it is so expensive. I mean in other areas are expensive too, right? I mean all of housing is up. We know that but there are just the there's these pockets around the country that it's like I mean it is what it is, right?

home but if you decided to move to you know, Beverly Hills or wherever and you put that same money you go, oh, we need to get like a we can't fit the kids. You know what I mean? So, there's just a reality to it that's not fun to deal with and so if you do decide I'm going to work in this area, we also have to figure out how do we get our income up in order to go with the ultra high cost of living. We kind of need an ultra high income. Right.

to make this work long term. That's right and it's it's the math which is not always fun. Math doesn't have emotion. We do or I do. George George has some, George has some emotion.

math. I wish he had more I know, but it's it's hard. It's hard. Rachel's the empathetic friend. sucks. I mean, like Yeah. Man.

It's hard. All right. Well, let's move on and hopefully have more some some good news. Barbara is in Atlanta. What's going on, Barbara?

Hi. I don't know if I have good news or not, but I'm really happy to be here. Dang it. Barbara, we were we were hoping, but hey, it's okay. the good news. We're happy to talk about that. you called. Aw, thank you. So, we have we're getting close to retirement. I'm 63, my husband's 66. We have $700,000 in an

investment account. Whoa. Nice. also have $40,000 in consumer debt.

So, I'm really tempted to take some of that money and pay it off.

And but he's starting to draw Social Security next month and it'll be about 3,500 a month. So, I'm wondering if we should use that to pay it off or if we should invest that and take out a lump sum and pay off our debt. We also have a little mortgage.

Okay, what what's the 700 invested in?

Um it's with one of your SmartVestor Pros. It's he's got it in a in a mutual fund account. Is it within like a Roth IRA or a 401k

or is it just a standard just growth mutual fund? It's a No, it's a 401k and we have a smaller Roth. Okay. But that is essentially that's your retirement nest egg is the 700k.

That's exactly right. Okay. So, that plus whatever we get in Social Security, that's the retirement plan. So, we need to make sure that we can live off of all of that.

Yes. Okay. And we figured out we can.

Okay. Have you talked to your SmartVestor Pro about the best approach sort of mathematically, strategically for where to pull this money from, whether it's from future income versus your investment account?

We talked about the lump sum and he says he thinks that's a pretty good idea, but he hasn't really gone any further than that. And I'm starting to think that maybe we have some options.

You definitely have options. I mean, I love the idea of not touching the nest egg. That That would be my number one goal for you guys is to leave the nest egg to grow because we know on average it's going to double about every 7 years. So, 7 years from now, if you don't touch it, you got 1.4 million.

Well, that's a very different retirement. And so, I don't want you to decimate the nest egg before we even get to retirement. And so, if you can use the 3,500 and you continue working, you guys are on a budget guys still working?

Yes. Okay. How much are will work another year and I'll I'll work probably 2 more years. Okay. Well, how much are you guys making?

I Well, we bring home $8,000 a month.

That's our take home. Okay.

Um How little of that can you live off of? What do you need to get by?

Well, we break even each month because we've got that consumer debt. And so, You're spending eight grand a month right now? Yes, and we need an emergency fund.

That's our whole problem cuz we're spending money that we're putting money on credit cards for like tires and Yeah.

our dogs, you know, need surgery and things like that. So, we need to get an emergency fund going, too. I'm really dedicated to working these baby steps, but I feel like it's kind of late in life and I don't really know if everything applies the same way.

Totally. Yeah, it and it does. And what I would be, you know, thinking about, Barbara, is yeah, could you pull money?

You have 700 grand. So, could you pull it and pay off this 40 grand and be fine? Yes, you could. Totally could.

Um but the truth is is the way you guys are living, your habits aren't changing by doing that. And by living paycheck to paycheck without savings is what I worry about you guys going into retirement because with those habits, that magnifies the more money you have. And so, I would rather your habits change here in the next year or two as you guys enter retirement more than anything. So, I think it would be just a good practice.

And like you said, you know, you're in your 60s and you're like, is it too late?

for, you know, 40 years or, you know, however long you've been working and and living. So, um I think it's going to it can be a harder change for you guys, but I think it's I think it's a needed one. And I think taking that eight grand and saying, what can we do to to not just

live off of that paycheck to paycheck, but what can we do to cut expenses, get margin, pay off this 40, get an emergency fund in place, do it all with your income here in the next 2 years.

Um that would be a great challenge for you all cuz then your habits have changed, you've created a new way of functioning with money, and then you get to go into retirement with freaking 700 grand, which is amazing. Yeah, that would be my goal. Not We're not retiring till we're out of debt with an emergency fund. And that means we're going to work until we have to. And that should put some fuel to this fire. Thank you for the call, Barbara. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

If you want to know the best way to manage your money, there's no get-rich-quick life hacks here. It is by doing a budget. It's by looking at the reality of what you make and what you're spending and then trying to stick to it.

And that's what we've done with our EveryDollar app. It's completely free.

We've got over 10 million people using it. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. And it's the same way Rachel and I manage our money. It's the same way I managed money when I was broke and now that I got some, I still use the budget to make sure that I'm hitting my goals and spending what I should be. So, go check it out in the App Store or Google Play. And if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, we've got a link in the description for you.

Wes is in Philadelphia. What's going on, Wes? How can we help?

Hi, George. Hi, Rachel.

So, I have a question. I am on baby step

two and I am So, my wife and I are on baby

step two.

We purchased some property on a tax sale

back in 2020.

And then um our plan was to, cuz it was

only a couple miles from our house, to eventually build a house cash and rent that out. Um but change plans have changed. We moved up north to Pennsylvania for my job.

And I am now looking at selling that property and um while we're on baby step two, um we are looking at uh selling that property to be able to either A, uh pay

down on our debt and or B, um help my wife start a business to be able

to increase our income and then pay down on the debt faster.

Uh how much are you going to get from the sale of the property?

So, retail um appraised value is about $21,000.

It's not much land.

Um but if I were to sell it to an investor, it would sell much quicker and I would probably get between 10 and 15.

And how much debt do you have?

So, currently consumer debt, we have 43,000.

Um various. Uh some credit card.

Some medical. Um I have a little bit left on my truck along with student loans.

And how much you guys already How much you guys make a year? 49,000. Nice. Well done.

Uh how much do you guys make?

Um I make 140 with my salary. Um

but I have the opportunity with bonuses

and things to make up to about 180.

Okay. How much does your wife make?

She's stay-at-home with our two boys.

Okay. What kind of business is it that she's wanting to start?

Well, um so, something we've talked about um is uh for a family business that she would kind of manage is um

a uh monthly family type of uh activity type of thing where we would um

put together a box of a kit.

So one of the ideas would be maybe for like

a spring or summertime activity. There'd be a small easel in there with a poster board and some water balloons and some water-based paint and you fill up the water balloons with the paint, throw it out there, you have an afternoon of fun and you have some artwork to put in the living room. How many of these kits has she sold so far?

Um none yet. We're just in the thought process. We have not even listed the property yet. So I'm just trying to look at the Okay.

Um what options type of thing Yeah. Um

you would go down. Um So I would put this towards the debt and

I would do that because um the business model, you know, the the the business plan it is not, you know, it's it it hasn't even, you know, been happening. Like I it'd be different if you're like, "Oh my gosh, she has all this business. She's doing this thing." And golly, we're making this and if we just put a little bit in there, she could make 4x that. Like if there was actually a proven um sustainable business, I may could talk about something different.

Um but as of right now, yeah, because it's just a a complete startup whiteboard, I would definitely get you guys in a position where you're debt-free. Um so that 10 grand I would definitely take to that 43, make it 33 and uh start working your way

down and then I would get an emergency fund in place before you start that business. And then once you guys are debt-free with an emergency fund, then she can start that and I would start it very slowly.

Uh move at the speed of cash and slowly

work her way up because I think sometimes, you know, we talk to people on the show and they they have a dream and they want to go get a business loan for 60 grand to start something that's not proven out and they get themselves in a mess. So just for future future uh advice, you didn't ask for that, but I'll give that to you for free. No, I I appreciate that, Rachel. Um and

that's the that's the other other thing is uh with us looking at selling this

little piece of land, uh we would have that cash and we were just trying to figure out which would be the better option. I would definitely put it towards the debt. The secret sauce here is your amazing income. It's not the land, it's not the business opportunity. It's I make 140 to 180 grand. Let's take control of that thing. Cuz if you can start throwing 6 grand a month at the debt, this thing's gone soon.

Yes. And so I think we've been hanging on to it too long.

Yeah, well, we've been working on it for a little bit less than a year now. And they paid off 49, yeah. And how much in a year? So you'll do the next half in what, nine 10 months?

Uh if we are unable to sell the property for whatever reason, you know, the storm Helene that went through, I'm not sure Mhm. if we'll be able to sell it. Yeah.

Um but um if we're able to sell it, then

we'll have it paid off before springtime, but uh if not, then it'll probably be summer to maybe early fall next year. That's great. Cool. Good for you guys, Wes. Well done.

That's a lot That's a lot of hard work. And I And I love the business idea. You know, they have some of those subscription boxes and I've gotten them as a gift. One of our kids got one as a for a birthday gift.

Yeah, so every month they got this like activity, you know, in the mail. It's exactly what you're talking about, Wes. And it's great and it's great. So I think, yeah, there's some fun outlets and creativity when you see a need out there to be able to, yeah, start a business.

I love it. One day we'll she'll call back and say, "I have 100,000 for my side business. What do I do with it?" Yeah, that's right. Like, "Oh my gosh, it blew up." Or 500 grand and my husband quit his job.

That's my favorite. All right, Ben is in Minnesota.

Hi George. Hi Rachel. Uh I guess I just

have a question about my company-funded annuity plan.

Okay. and whether I should be investing alongside that.

Uh baby right now I'm technically in baby step three. I'm just looking ahead.

Okay. But uh What are the options for retirement through your company?

Well, they it's a company-funded annuity plan. So whatever I make a month, they'll put in 25% of what I make.

Regardless of if you put in anything? So you put in zero dollars, they're still putting in 25% of your income?

Yes. That's awesome. And then yeah, it's it's a national electric annuity plan, so it's like a lot of linemen have it. Yeah. And that's the only retirement There's no like 401k, so you're on your own. We have We have a 401k, too, and right now I'm I've always just put in 5%, which is kind of the minimum.

Okay. So I've just been doing that and just been kind of living that way.

But I'm just wondering if I should be putting money into a Roth, too?

Yeah, so once you have your baby step three completed, so you have your fully funded emergency fund done, then yeah, I would look to say, you know, cuz the 401k, what's the match there? Is it 5% and that's what you're matching to?

No, they don't do a match. Basically their big thing is that ba- the big thing is the annuity plan for them.

Okay. Okay, I got you. And there's no Roth option? I I would then I would keep my 15% in retirement. I would not do Let it Let them do the annuity and all of that. I would not put my own money in it. No, they they do it. Okay, great. That's awesome.

Yeah, so I would go to the Roth first, max it out, uh and then go to the 401k

after that.

Okay. Uh the reason I'm really asking is that is we're going to buy my wife's grandparents' house one of these days.

They're in their 90s.

So I'm kind of was thinking of

flip-flopping uh baby step four and what is it? Four and five? Well, there's three B where you start saving up the down payment and you get to choose how much you invest during that process. But thanks for the call, man. Hey, if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, the show's about to end, so head on over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show in a distraction-free experience. You can go download that in the app store or click the link in the show notes. We'll see you over there.

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know, the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free.

Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right. Go on now. Don't make it weird.

Okay, I I I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

Okay. Bye-bye now.

All right, this is it's getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?

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## 219. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 30, 2024)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:38 |

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today what up what up this is the ramsy

show I'm John deloney joined by the

great George camel live from Nashville

Tennessee we are taking your calls on your money Building Wealth doing work

that you love and creating and

sustaining and hanging on to great

relationships so glad that you're with us today we're taking live calls 8825

5225 it's 8825 5225 we have a packed

house out here in the audience good to see everybody coming to visit us here in

uh actually we're in Franklin just north of Nashville but we are glad you are

with us as well let's go out to Milwaukee no no no no let's go out to

Dallas detone and talk to Cyrus hey

Cyrus what's up man hello how you doing doing

outstanding my man what's

up um so yes um I am 26 um I have

$116,000 worth of debt and I am

wondering if I should file for chapter 7

uh bankruptcy why'd you jump to that conclusion what makes you think you can't crawl out of

this well um I've been working um a lot

two jobs um constantly um not really

able to get anywhere um recently about a year ago I caught a

case um for a felony charge and um I am

still going on actively with that case

trying to get probation um so it's been very difficult

for me to find another job now that my

background check is shown a felony

charge um so what are you doing now for

work yeah so I'm working on Amazon um

I'm making uh about $4,100 a month at a minimum um

I can potentially make more depending on

um if they allow me to get overtime or

work um a six day I'm working five days

there as of right now okay um last year

I made last year I made 60,000 off of it

I'm off of Amazon loan um but I'm

just like drowning right now with with

payments and um I I did um

I rounded up all my minimum payments for

all my loans and and everything and U my

minimum is $5,300 whoa a month and that's just on

minimum payments That's not including

food or um or rent or anything else how

have you made it so far what's getting you through every month if you're going

underwater um so how did I make it so

far well I've been doing um are you going further into Deb every month no no

so I I'm tapped out I I can't even get the debt consolidation loan my credit is

shot what kind of debt is what is this

debt man can you break down the

160 yeah so I have um a a vehicle that's

um 51,000 I would left on it um

51,000 yeah it's a Tesla Model y

performance oh not a Tesla was it worth

yeah 55,000 how much

35,000 okay what else um I have nine

credit cards that um a total of $55,000

worth the debt on

that okay and then um and then I have

the rest of my loans which is

90 98,000 which is three um personal

loans and then my other loan your other

what my auto loan auto loan you have

another auto loan no no no it's it's the

test loan okay so you got 51k on the car

nine credit cards that are 55k and then

the other what is that another 50 or 60

is in personal

loans um no so total with the car it's

98 so it would be another like 40 in

personal okay what where did all this

money go what have you been spending

on so

we're talking 100K in just

spending yeah to make a long story short

um I I as I mentioned I had a

three-year-old daughter I I got in I was

in a relationship with this woman um basically she was unfaithful to

me we broke up um ever since then I've

been trying to honestly repair our

relationship for our child and also

because you know it's a woman that I

love and care about well long story

short it's been years of non-stop um

taking on her Debs um you know paying

you know for food and basically

basically living like two households the

whole time um and yeah basically just so

she's been scamming you for this I mean she's been just leeching off you all this time huh yes yes and now you know

recently I got you know we

you know uh I mooved we basically broke

up again and I'm left with all this and

I just she doesn't want to make it work

and I've been Contin trying to make it work for my child and it I just this is

where I'm at now making making it work

for your child is different than digging $150

$160,000 hole trying to impress a

girl yeah those are two different things

and you have lied yourself for the last two or 3 years saying I'm quote unquote doing this for the baby but you've been

running around like a like with your peacock feathers out trying to trying to

woo this woman and man she's been just

happy to take your money happy to take all your your stuff but it was it wasn't

about that girl and now again I think you love your daughter I think you're I think you're working as hard as you can but man you got to let the fantasy of this woman go it's it's burying you

what's this felony charge

about so it was um

she had a guy in my apartment for the second time um all right Let's do let's

let's do this let's stop there I don't want I don't want you to say something that's going to get S painted on the air let's just roll back to the money part is that cool yeah are you living alone

right now so I I was going back between my

parents and her um I was in my car for a

month um last month I was in for a whole

month um just because I couldn't go back

to either one um so now I am back with

my parents they you know they stopped

drinking supposedly so um I'm there for

for now and and this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy just because I have a case going on I'm

unstable household you know I can't rely

on nobody right now I'm a worker I I

like you know two years ago I made you

know 93,000 working doubles uh when I

mean I've been working non-stop two jobs

for the last three years but bro if you if you if you make 98 three years in a row you're out no no not for Reon no no

no no I'm telling you like I want you to

hear George and I say we believe in you if you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling uhuh you'll be out you'll be

free yeah listen to me you'll be free if

you file bankruptcy you're putting a chain around

your neck and you're jumping into a

lake yeah the the problem I have is I've

been applying for jobs in my record with

the felony charge I got it I got it it's

very the de the deck is is firmly

stacked against you until you get that cleared 100% yeah but I have never one time um

I've I mean I've never

uh the guy who mows my lawn I don't know

if he's got to F any charge he just does a great job right I mean there's work to be had it's not traditional work and it's not fun work and it is hard grinding hot cold work but there's work what do you think George yeah there's no shortcuts here we got to get your income up app I would not file bankruptcy

you're you can get out of this but it's going to take 3 years of hustle throwing

50 Grand at the debt and that means getting that income up and man you're going to have to get creative you might have to get a roommate or two keep Ling with the parents do what you got to do but do not throw that chain around you

just yet

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music] I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

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of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

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[Music]

[Music]

all right we are back I'm John delone

joined by George camel 8825 5225 taking

your calls on money and work and life

your mental and emotional health whatever you got going on I've got this

um qz.com looks like an internet article

but here's what it says says um talking

about money makes people more

uncomfortable than talking about politics and religion says the survey

here um that's actually been George

that's been one of my uh personal

experiences sitting with hurting people man um I remember back to I've talked

about this on the show I remember back to my practicum days when I was seeing clients me people talk about every

everything um their past their future

like like really hard stuff Partners

they've had like everything did not want

to talk about debt money it it just was

too sensitive of a topic I think it is it too personal is there too much shame and baggage connected to that versus politics and religion there's just like a tribe you're sort of connected to yeah that's the only thing I've I've been able to distill down and again I'm just speculating here is one yeah politics

religion um questions about sex intimacy

all those are they're tribal right you

can get on the internet and find a gang

right when it comes to your money when

you distill all the way down there's that one question what are you worth and

there's just nowhere to hide it's just you and what what how much money have

you earned what vacations have you gone on or not gone on like how much debt do you have how much how much do you owe it just all comes and I think we put so much pressure on that one number and here's what I hate about it um I mean

there's an old saying in in among

counselors and therapists Secrets will kill you right and so if you are out

there talking about stuff and trying to get well and get healthy but you can't

you feel so much shame around how much money you owe or I don't even know how the stuff works um um and I wish you

know what it comes comes to the mechanics of it I wish people would

believe me when I tell people I co-host

this show and I text you on Saturdays

asking you about a particular fund or I

you know text or talk to Dave about this a particular question we're always asking each other stuff um but I think

there's an illusion that if you have a show if you're on the internet you know everything about everything and so I feel embarrassed it's not going to ask anybody anything people just sit in it and they just keep making the same choices over and over and they look up like the last caller 160 Grand in the hole right it's a it's a it's a zoo man

it's a zoo is wild yeah I mean that's on the Ramsey Show we're trying to make talking about money normal in a good way

not you know there's things that you shouldn't share at Thanksgiving dinner it says here only 14% said money is a

normal Topic at holiday Gatherings as friends and family don't go home I think

it should be lower than that yeah don't go home and be like all right we're going to go on the table we're going to pass the roles uh Aunt Janet and then we're going to see uh everybody tell everybody what they make who has the most debt yeah who who made the most money this year let's go Dave Rams he's not sitting around the Thanksgiving table talking about hey guys what's your favorite mutual fund lately let's talk

uh let's talk returns yeah and I guess

he could go around the table and ask everybody what they makes but all his all all his kids work for him so he kind of knows right he knows he knows but this is the survey said 62% of people

were highly uncomfortable sharing their financial details with friends and family 38% said they're comfortable

sharing Bank information with family members and close friends that should be 0% Bank information it's a very I mean

that's private it's like saying well I don't want to share my social security number I'm uncomfortable talking about

yeah that's a little personal but I do think we should talk about money goals

money challenges we don't have to get into specifics but you know we talk

about this with relationships it's good to talk about money values early on you

don't need to get into here's how much debt I have here's how much I make on the first date but it's important to see hey how you what was money like for you growing up and I also think this so

George I do think I can

see money is such a sensitive topic that

I can imagine going home and saying hey

had a great year and you got one family

member that's like oh oh did we now o o

George is so rich right or that's

immediately followed by you know a

cousin be like hey man uh I need a I

need 40 bucks can I right so I get it

but that when everybody's sitting on a table or everyone sitting on a friend group is holding on to something like

hey I'm scared yeah right or like I

don't know how I'm going to make my payments or he I had a really good year

can I celebrate with somebody I'll tell you this the first year um on your past

change of future with number one it was a good year I never anything like it I'm a cops kid right my dad was a cop and a minister my wife was raised by school teachers it was a new year for us I

called one friend I like I just need to tell somebody and it was a cool little

moment he's a banker and so I could never catch him but he was like that's

like but it was a cool moment to celebrate so you've got to have people able you talk about things you're scared about talk about things that you're that you can celebrate together absolutely well I imagine there's a spectrum from if you're broke and you talk about money there's a lot of Shame and if you're super well off and you're talk about money there's a lot of guilt and so is

there like this Middle Ground of everyone else is like hey we'll talk about it I don't care yeah so I think for me it comes back to you've got to find some people you got to find some

people and it doesn't have to be your family um doesn't have to be your immediate group of friends but you need to find some people people that you can have conversations about politics about

your faith about this one says 71% of

people are more comfortable commenting on their weight 81% said they're

comfortable discussing their health um

78% said that openly discuss their political opinions affiliation 81% they

would said they would openly discuss their religious views and we ain't talking about money right so um we got

to have places where we can just fully let our hair down and say I'm not all right or can we just cheer for a second

um and there's the right way to do it I personally as much as I talk about money for a work I don't do it unsolicited I

don't just like hang out with friends like hey man let's talk about your financial goals where are we at I only talk about money when I'm asked about it or when people are openly sharing and they're looking for an opinion there you go and I think that's the important part no one's looking for opinion even if you're like the ramay you know Die Hard fan it's not the time to just like Ram

it down their throat and be like you better follow the Ramy plan or else

nobody's excited by that yeah or meeting

someone in the grocery store being like guess what I'm a millionaire and they're like yeah dude I can't I'm I I can't

afford eggs right so there's a balance to it but I do love when someone passes me in Costco and they don't even say hi

they just go Bay cash for that and they

just keep walking and it's just like an unspoken language we have together so

great good on you I was at a jeweler and the girl there oh that was a flex that's that was a good I was getting a watch repair John okay and she immediately it

was like I realized I was like a priest it was a confessional she saw me and she went I have a car loan but it's not that much it's the only that I have there's $22,000 left I'm working all hard to pay

I was like waa hey release the guilt

alas come on well so she's working on it

I gave her a book and she's on the path and so now she reports back anytime I see her it's great well money

confessional I won't even tell you some of the strange conversations I've had waiting in airport lines and in bathrooms and I can't I mean I talk

about money you're talking about mental health relationships intimacy the things

people probably share with you unsolicited I I I will I can't possibly be top

sitting at an airport I'm pretty sure not in a bathroom please tell me that happen a few times in the bathroom oh like at a stall I thought there was an unspoken like guy rule bro you just stare at the tile right ahead of you we all know that you stare at the tile but

I've had two different times someone looks over and they're like oh hey you're on that show and I'm like just look at the tile man and they're like

hey you know so me and my wife and it's like not a good time and they're like they're always gra like oh you're right you're right you're right and I understand people get excited but um I

have had one in the in the in a airport

in DFW Airport I think it was Dallas Love Field when a couple came up and

just started talking about their sex life it was just live therapy I looked at I was like it's it's not just not a great time like I'm super like it means

the world to me all listen to the show but kind of weird and you could see it

as they're talking yeah we just made

this exchange super weird we're just

going to go to waterburger and call it guys good to see good to see you guys so lesson learned here there there's a context in a place an environment a

group that it's wise to talk about this

stuff and then other times there's good reason not to talk about it I will say you have to find people that you can talk about hard things with period I think that's why Financial Peace University has been so powerful over the last 30 years it's called people into a room you show up and you go oh I'm not the only knucklehead that made mistakes oh okay we're all in this thing together oh we're not going to just sit here and

ridicule each other's mistakes we're going to just focus on getting better wonderful and you get to weep together

and every every week you walk in and you

see a a a an increasingly familiar group

of people that's all doing hard stuff together and you'll celebrate together

and I actually I think that's a an

unspoken um curse on our our current

generation is everybody talks about

their problems like what happened who

said this can you believe this oh my gosh so and so's running for president

what no none of us or very few of us

have people they can call and just be like hey can I just say something awesome happened today my marriage is amazing my kid's doing great can I just say that out loud and we cheer each other on right so find people that you

could tell the hard stuff to but also find people you could tell the great stuff to especially about your money8

825 5225 this is the Ramy show we'll be

right [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Ramsey hey guess what we just launched a

brand new tour me John deloney and my

buddy Dave Ramsey are hitting the road

coming to a city near you for the money

and relationships tour it's six cities

it's the radest theaters in the nation

and we're putting a new Twist on it every stop is going to be an interactive night where you as the audience are going to vote on what we talk about so

if you're if you see the list of things we're going to put some topics up and youall get to pick from 20 or 30 I don't know how many they going to be up there and if just going to be like all right

here we go let's go so that way we don't

come to you and play the songs that we want to play we're going to come and we're going to play the songs that you guys want to hear we're be talking about money and relationships and so much more every night is going to be different I promise you you're going to laugh I promise you if we do our jobs you're going to leave with some action items to go change your life and um probably be a

a shed a tier or two as well we're going

to have a blast we're kicking off in Louisville on April 21st 2025 and then

hitting up Durham Atlanta Phoenix Fort

Worth and Kansas City Early Bird pricing

is happening right now get your tickets

to the money relationships tour at Ramy

solutions.com tour Ramy solutions.com tour and if

you're checking this out on YouTube or podcast it's in the show notes all right

let's go out to Milwaukee and talk to

Alex what up Alex how we doing hey how

you doing do all right brother what's

up I was calling in because I just um I

do pretty well I I do really I do pretty

well compared to everybody else and I just feel like I'm stuck like ambitious

guy what is pretty well compared to everybody else um I make probably close

to $400,000 a year okay and uh that put

you in the top top 1% of any human who's

ever existed in human

history yeah I I I guess I'm just like

an ambitious person and I kind of feel stuck like I I don't know what to do if I continue to grow um

I I've done a couple different things and they didn't pan out very well and I failed at them done a couple other things that well what do you do for

learn so um my main income is I own a

restaurant and then my other couple

things I do I also own a lube and then I

also do real estate a what a real estate no the one

before that a Lube a quick lube oh okay

now I didn't know the industry lingo

okay that helps me what's a quick Lo

yeah quick luu go yep yeah I thought you

were talking about those sleds that they have at the the Bob sledding thing I

thought you were like talking about you're like French and you owned a the Lou Art Museum oh yeah all right so you

okay sweet so successful entrepreneur

yeah which one of these is your main is your main main bread winner yes the

rusher okay and what's your question my

my question is how do I continue to grow

I've experienced a couple of failures in the last couple of years with opening new businesses and it didn't D well I don't really understand like Ross Ras and all that kind of stuff

like my concept has always been invest

in stuff and grow like are you talking

about you want to invest in retirement are we talking about growing your income

yeah in the medical community unchecked growth is called cancer so if you just

wake up every day like I got to grow I got to grow like you're going to clod

what what what are you trying to aim what are you aiming for what are you trying to get to I just um I want to grow as a

business person I want to be able to create generational wealth and like I know some people might feel like I've already done that but like I just feel like I still have so much more to accomplish yeah I know but it sounds like you're running from something what are you running from because listen Dave

Ramy is worth a a God awful amount of

money and he is obsessed

pathologically with helping hurting

people and money is just the byproduct of this

Obsession to help people be

free you have an obsession right now

with I got to get more and I got to get more and I got to get more and usually

for for guys like you that comes at the expense of their families of their

romantic partners of their kids of their health of

everything and and that's true I um me

and my wife had some problems a couple

years ago and I realigned my priorities with my family and that's gotten a lot

better and we where everything got fixed and we're a lot happy and we're bro you

know how I know everything didn't get fixed because I've been married for 20-some years it isn't just it's not

like a car engine it's something you continue to grow together with what what

what's your ultimate question what are you running from what are you scared

of no I think I just what is driving the

insatiable need for

growth it sounds like you watched a Grant Cardone video and now you're just like bro I got a 10x I got a 10x like

like what is all what's behind this you

$400,000 a year

exhale I uh I don't know if it's

competition and I'm not I'm not envy as anybody but I look at my peers and I

feel like I should be doing better that's the definition of envy that's what it is like I what I mean is like I'm not what I'm trying to say is like I don't I'm not mad at what they have I just like I'm happy for them and I'd like to learn I'd like to learn I like to hear people talk that do better than me I want to learn it's not that I wish

I'm B I want like I I I want it like oh

I'm angry at him it's nothing I thought it's just my it's like I'm I'm competitive that way in this regards all right here's your homework you ready for your homework you're not gonna like it yeah promise me say I promise I'll do whatever you tell me I promise I'll do

what you tell me all right you just said

that in front of millions of people if you lie you'll probably get struck by lightning probably not but I like it's just fun to say that all right number one you cannot get on Tik Tok or

Instagram for 30 days I don't do those anyway I'm just

telling you number one no social media for for 30 days number two you have to

go for a walk with your wife in the morning or in the evening with no phones

no devices for at least 30 minutes every

day for for 30 days number two how many

kids you got number three how many kids

you got I got four you have four kids

how how old I got twins that are four

and then a five and a sixy old okay when

I ask you what you're running from one

of the most common questions I hear or common answers I get from high performing um dads and say high

performing High earner dads is that they

look at the chaos at home and they don't

know what to do they don't know how to be a dad of

four kids they don't know how to be a husband of a wife with four kids they it's just chaos and they think in their

heads the greatest gift I could give my family is to not be here and instead go

make money and if you are making money to

help people if you are making money to

change a generational situation go get

it if you're hiding from your family

stop so I want you to plan something

with each one of those

kids and it could be 5 minutes or 10

minutes I want you to practice plugging in at your home do bed times not for 30

days not for the rest of your life I'm not telling you to if anyone makes 400 Grand you need to stop what you're doing that's not what I'm saying at all but if you had a if you had a desire

in your heart to provide good oil change

services for people to provide excellent

Food for People people I would tell you George will walk you through how to do all that but I don't hear that I hear

you running dude and running and running

and those four kids at some point are going to start asking what was so amazing about that restaurant that he gave it up gave us up for that

thing do you get what I'm saying yeah I

just want you to Exhale for a second and dude I want you to make $5 million a year it's not it's not about the money

it's about George and I can just hearing your voice man you're not comfortable in your own skin

you're doing a pretty amazing job here's

the best question to ask yourself Alex because I've I've talked and hung out with all these people who are very successful young guys making crazy money

net worth of $20 million and the

question I think is so powerful for you to ask is this two questions or three

three uh words and then what I make

500,000 and then what I make a million

and then what then I start five more businesses and then what you see where that's getting to

there's no real purpose behind it other than well because more is better it's

like a toddler mentality right yeah at some point we have to

learn also how to be content and how to

have peace otherwise it's going to

destroy you against that 400 Grand how much do

you owe how much money do you owe um I go a substantial amount but it

doesn't come out of like my personal earnings because my real estate pays for

it all like I buy property I always put 20% down how leveraged are

you um so I probably like all in all

like with everything my personal and you

know financial and work stuff I'm probably like 1.1 okay here's what

you're doing you're sitting on a time bomb brother you owe $1.1

million and I know the Tik Tok Bros and

the Instagram Bros like bro you got to leverage this to borrow this the bank's going to Arbitrage you're sitting on a

bomb and you know who knows it your nervous system your nervous system got to slow

down brother hang on the line I'm going to send you Financial University on us I want you to watch it control all delete

get some peace in your life we'll be right [Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm John

deloney joined by George camel Ramy show

question of the day is brought to you by why refi hey we've all made money

mistakes if you have defaulted private

student loans we're not judging you

George might be judging you but I'm not judging you wow but we are saying you

can do something about it contact why

refi y refi was created for people in

your exact situation go to Y rei.com

Ramsey that's the letter

yy.com Ramy to check it out may not be

available in all states today's question

comes from Dean in Washington together

my wife and I earned around 300,000 a

year we both enjoy buying and building Legos together with and with our sons we

have a large Lego collection which I've been working on since I was a little kid we're in baby steps four five and six how much money is too much money to spend on Hobbies like Legos we've been

spending 400 to 800 bucks a month for

the last six or so months it's been a blast and it's provided some really great quality time for our

family great question so regardless if

you're into Legos it's a good question question of how much should you spend on hobbies in the budget yeah people want parameters they want the percentage how

much is too much that's that's a good question for me I like I'm not a Legos

guy but I like just I don't know I just

like buying stuff so yeah help me out

George on behalf of the declin and the John's of the world is is there a percentage what the bad news is I cannot give you a prescriptive percentage because that would be insane like if you make a million dollars it's okay to spend a$ 100,000 on your hobby and if

you make $20,000 you can only spend 2

200 so what I would say is if it feels

like it's too much that's probably a good gut check your body saying hey let's let's slow down now these people make $300,000 they're in baby steps 456

meaning they're debt free with an emergency fund and therefore if that's where they want to spend their money that's totally fine with me I know it's not that's probably a shocking answer cuz here's the thing some people are really into golf some of these golf

memberships 400 bus a month00 bucks a

month just to for the pleasure of being part of the country that's what it cost to sneeze on the course 800 bucks

Initiation fee of your you know firstborn child I think and so I don't

judge people's decisions for what they spend their money on in their Hobbies what I do judge is if they're going into debt for it and if they're doing it at the expense of their financial future there you go so I would say 4 to 800

bucks just on a gut check when you make 300 Grand a year you're probably making

uh we're talking what 15 to 20 grand a

month yeah so to spend 800 bucks as a

percentage you're talking that's a fraction of your world so I would say if

if that's what you're into right now go for it it probably won't be a forever

hobby that you spend $800 a month for the next 20 years I also want to say this um here's where I'm in support of

Dean here Dean did not try like I have

been guilty of with like my guitars or

other people with their beanie babies or

whatever um is trying to say I spend

this money but it's somehow an investment I love the de just straight

up said I love doing this with my family

it's a way we bringing ourselves together I've been doing this since I was a kid I love it we're pretty much

loaded and is this okay and for me if

there's there it doesn't sound like there's a pathology around it you're not trying to justify it you're not trying to like twist up some magical story

about how this is all going to work out for you financially in the end this is

just dude I like doing it we make a ton

of money I'm assuming you're putting money away in four five and six I'm assuming you're super generous can I

tell you um here's a balance I've struck

with myself um I still have a lot of um

I don't know purchasing guilt if you will just because how I grew up we grew up with that a lot and so um maybe come

up with with an arrangement that I'm going to buy some Legos but I'm going to give extra right I'm going to tip extra

this month or I've made some deals with myself to to as a way to it's a it's a

it's not real I just made it up um it's

just for me but it's uh all right I'm going to buy this guitar but I'm going to be extra generous in these other areas um as a way to balance the cost

that's a great point and for me I'm pretty goal oriented so if I had had a mortgage to pay off and college to save up for I would say all right we're going to limit this to 400 a month anything

above and beyond that we're going to throw toward the mortgage there you go and maybe pay the mortgage principal first that extra before we buy the Legos

and whatever's left becomes the play Lego money becomes Lego money that's right and so I think that is a better approach to it if you did want some balance and again I see a mortgage payment I see the interest racking up I'm less likely to want to go buyt 400

that's my that's been that's my hobby right step now we get to do some crazy

outrageous things cuz we don't owe anyone money with your Legos college is

covered all right let's go out to Pensacola and talk to Ryan hey Ryan

what's up dude hey guys how's it going doing all

right brother what's up Hey so uh my situation now is my wife

is no longer working full-time uh she

just gave birth to our second child a

few months ago W um and yeah we've got a

halfy old son already hey Ryan I get a

lot of grief for interrupting but can I interr you real quick sure go ahead just

no one's listening just me and you real quick let's rephrase how you said that

okay the way you phrase that was well my

wife quit working she gave birth to a

like as though she messed something up

so let's flip it around hey dude this is

so exciting we just had our second kid

and my wife is is staying home with the baby say it like that okay that all right so we just had

our second child and my wife is for the

most part staying home with the baby amazing that's awesome way to go dude

very cool thank you thank you okay get to

your question yeah so um we've got

substantial amount of debt um you know

we have been kind of living a little bit above our means um but it has been manageable when we were both working full-time um now I'm the primary um you

know Money Maker in the house and you

know things are starting to stack up now we've kind of burned through our savings over the past year and um

so now we're kind of looking at uh what

can we do to you know kind of lower our

monthly expenses we've already Tri the fat as much as we can um we I don't play

golf on the weekends anymore we don't go out to eat at restaurants anymore um

I've got our grocery bill down pretty low every month but um it's still

getting a little out of hand what's out of

hand is it your minimum debt payments

what is your totalb spending a lot of

money yeah so most of our debt is tied

up in two vehicle payments that are both

upside down um and how upside down five grand

or 20 grand um her car is uh we ow 23,000 on

it and it's worth about 17 okay um in my

truck we owe 15,000 on and it's worth

about 12 okay and is that private party value

how'd you get to those numbers of what it's worth yeah private party value on

KB okay so we have a deficit here of n

Grand what's left in savings if

anything uh nothing so there was about

4,000 in savings a year ago and we've

just been eating through that slowly uh trying to keep up with things we've got a personal loan that's 9,000 and I've

got a uh credit card that's 2 and a half

thousand and then we got various little

small credit cards that don't total up to about a grand I'm going to let George walk you through the nuts and bolts but I just want to say this and I'm get some hate for it but it is what it is um you

have created a world for yourselves

where staying at home may not be an option for a season you simply it's a

math problem it's not a values problem

it's a math problem you'll owe a ton of money dude

if she was making 4K a month and daycare is 2500 that's $1,500 extra dollars we

can put toward debt you see the math

there right um thankfully my wife is

working part-time at the preschool my son goes too uh so we get a discount

there yeah but it's not cutting it though it's not working you have a math

problem and it's because of the life y'all lived before you had kids right right so here's a few things

you can do number one cut up the credit cards yesterday get on an every dollar

budget yesterday I'll give it to you for free if you'll use it and you're going to list out your income then list out all of your expenses and anything that isn't food shelter utilities

Transportation insurance or minimum debt payments it's gone

and on top of that we need to go figure out ways to make more and that might mean hey Dad's going to have to go after

work to deliver pizzas or do Uber or

whatever overtime you can do in order to

make this work but it sounds like you

guys have my guess is about $40 $50,000

in debt how much do you

make uh I make with overtime and

commissions I make 55,000 a year yeah

it's not gonna you gotta make more money brother 22 an hour um you know about 45

hours a week so we need to figure out how to create at least two grand in

margin so that in a year we throw 24 at

it this thing's done in 2 years that's

the math problem you guys need to figure out and that might mean she goes back to work for a season yeah it might mean you're working s days a week for the

next 2 years man to dig out of this hole

and for everybody listening man I'm

telling you the debts not worth it this

is the Ramy show we'll be back next hour right here

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n

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

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today what's going on what's going on

I'm John with my good friend George camel and this is the ramsy show live

from Nashville Tennessee we are taking

your calls on money on Building Wealth

on your relationships on your work whatever you got going on in your life

88 25 5225 George and I will sit with

you we'll listen we'll figure out the

next right step we got to uh Phoenix

Arizona and talk to Cruz what's up

Cruz hi how you doing I'm doing good

excellent brother what's up man so uh

I'm uh 20 years old uh got married right

out of high school and uh um I'm

currently working at a church um doing

maintenance and stuff at uh around minimum wage and uh what's minimum

wage um actually I'm a little above I

think I'm making 16 an hour okay um so

my wife works as well so I think our

monthly take comes around

4,000 um but it's uh really expensive

out here in Phoenix so I'm I'm wondering

if um I need to maybe look into

somewhere I can make more money or if I

should move somewhere more cheaper or I

I don't know go I'm going to let George handle the dollars and cents but can I

just use you as a as a case study for what's going on in America right now uh

sure I feel like we've all been told

particularly those age 40 to

20 that you have a right to work

whatever job you want to work and live

wherever you want to live in whatever City you want to live whatever

neighborhood you want to live even um

and that it should work out and I love

your humility man you're you're you're

doing literally the Lord's work man you're cleaning toilets and fixing light bulbs and I was a maintenance man at a church for years you're doing good work behind the scenes man um and you live in

an expensive place and so now you've got this math problem

right yeah and it's frustrating because

you like the work you do and you do good work and you help people out and you're working for a bigger Mission than just getting wealthy and you probably have friends community and family in Arizona is that right in Phoenix yeah yeah

that's right I hate that for you brother

but yeah you're running up against um

and I appreciate you just being open

about it like you're running up against a problem that everyone's running up against which is I wanted to live here I wanted to do this job and the math isn't

working and George and I were just

talking off air George gets roasted

alive for suggesting well you have to make a change you don't understand

you're an idiot you don't care about me no it's I love you enough to say it's it's a mouth problem like it's just a mouth problem just is so um man what do

you think George what does your wife think about this is she open to moving

is she open to you switching careers and

kind of having a big life change well uh I mean we we talk about

it but we are really connected here you

know all our families here we have uh

deep friendships at our church and uh

you know so it would be a hard thing and we wouldn't know where to go and as for

a career change I don't know what else I

would want to do in life currently well

we can help with that I'm gonna make sure before you get off the line we give you Ken's new book find the work you're wired to do it includes a get clear career assessment and it'll help you get

some gears turning about what you were

really wired to do on this Earth to make an impact and it might mean hey I got to

leave the church I'm going to go do this other thing I'm going to get this education this credential um and for now

it might mean I'm going to go to Target

and pick up a job making 20 an hour instead of 16 cuz that bucks an hour is

an extra eight grand a year that we can use to get for closer to our goals so

what is your next financial goal do you guys have debt do you have savings yeah we got about uh a little

over 2,000 in medical debt that we

should be able to pay off soon and uh uh

we ran into a car problem and lost our baby St one so we got to build that up

again but so that's it you just have two grand

a medical debt yeah so so the debt is

not the thing holding you back it's not like like if you were debt free we can have our best life we need to get the income up in order to live what's your rent right now uh right now I got it at

uh 1,200 but in in reality I'm renting

like a little house from my parents on

their property and so it's sort of like

artificially deflated rent yeah yeah

okay so let's say we we kept this rental

situation until we got the better paying

job got out of the debt got an emergency fund is that a good exit strategy

uh I think I I I don't know I I don't

know just looking out here cheapest rent

you can find 16 or 1,800

plus like yeah for a one bedro what does

your wife do and what does she make uh

she um also helps with the church

preschool and she works at uh Starbucks

and uh she makes probably about as much

as I do overall we bring in four grand a

month so so Cruz I'm going to speak

directly to you cuz I love you

okay you're faced with a couple of

challenges that really are not going to move it's just expensive to live in

Phoenix everyone in America wants to be hot all the time I guess and working at

the church pay 16 bucks an

hour it's a job it's not a career and I

want you guys to both sink your teeth into a career even if that's you man you're handy you could go start a handyman business in Phoenix and charge 50 to 75 bucks an hour

do you believe that um I'm sure I could figure that out

yeah you could even tell the people at the church and say listen I'm available for hire I'm 60 bucks an hour I do good

reliable work I was going to say you can mow Lawns but the grass doesn't grow in Phoenix but you can shovel rocks right

but listen here's the thing quadruple your income tomorrow if you do that can

I just talk to you just D well you

called so I am going to talk to you dude you can't just sit at home and

go well you know huh

you deserve more than

that you know what I mean I feel I can

hear you just feel trapped you lost your mojo man when's the last time Cruz was real pumped about something fired up

what was it probably was it a project

something you were doing High School

when um I was renovating the house I

live in now and getting married and I

got this job at the church and

yeah all right here's what you were

doing you're building something you're building towards your future you and

your wife go out tonight you don't have a lot of money to spend but go do something even if it's going for a walk on a park bench or something and y'all

map out where you want to be in two and a half years just pick a number man and

almost be a little bit unrealistic about it and then I want you to get on the phone tomorrow and call Target and call

Walmart and call McDonald's call

everybody because you can serve that

church on a volunteer basis when you can

breathe when your wife can breathe when

you got stability in your house but the

mopy like oh well I don't it's hard man

dude you're going to look up in two years and your problem's going to be here and you're goingon to have a kid on the way yeah yeah I worry about that

sometimes okay then here's what we want to do I I want to stop worrying about it and I want you to take action take action take action take action okay five

applications by by the time you go to

bed tonight 10 applications tomorrow

let's see what you can Cobble together workwise and just go make some money

what you're going to find is I don't like retail I love retail oh this guy

who I'm working for at retail needs somebody to help with a bathroom model I can do that and now you're Off to the Races or George said like man call somebody at your at put the call out at your church I'm here to help anybody do anything after hours and here's what I charge I charge 40 bucks an hour and I'm

the best there is and I'll be on time and I'll finish below budget man you'll have more work than you know what to do with but you got to go you got to go you got to go you got to go go we can't want this more than you do hang on the line

we're going to send you Ken Coleman's find the work you're wired to do be sure to take the get clear career assessment inside of that I think it will unlock some really cool things for you

[Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show triple

8825 5225 I'm John deloney joined by hor

camel and Hey listen you want some more

money and less stress of course we all

do but if you scroll and scroll and

scroll George you get more and more

madness and Madness and Madness and Madness and thankfully you used this

wild thing that's not available very often which is called common sense and research and data for your new book

Breaking Free from broke which exposes

the most common money myths and excuses

headon like credit card schemes and investing traps and mortgage myths and all of it it's all the stuff they wish they taught you in high school or that I

wish Instagram got correct man um this

is the financial literacy that you're like oh okay never got this 20 years ago

but it's not too late to get it now or hey I'm fresh out of college I want to avoid all the mistakes how can someone

just cut through the noise and tell me the truth yes and that's what this book was and uh the reviews have been amazing

John because people are telling me dude

you convinced me to finally cut up the cards you convince me that it's not as bad as I thought and that I'm in more control than I thought well it's one of

those things where if you look around and everyone who's giving you advice is either broke or miserable or so anxious

they can't breathe it's like there's

this guy smiling on the cover maybe I'll try that one right and it's actual it's

actual truth you'll gain knowledge and confidence to break free from A system

that let you down here can I tell you this this is totally aside from this commercial I'm doing for your

book it's so ironic to me that people

that get the most mad at you are the

ones you're literally you're you're like

it's like their bike has been chained up to a fence and you've got the chain Cutters and you're like excuse me please can I can I free your bike and they're like no no and you're like and I'm just

trying to I'm just I just want you to be able to go home and ride your bike wherever you want to can I just cut this and they're like no it's th those people you're trying to help are the ones that get so mad it is wild out there but I

kind of you know part of it it's what Dave's been doing for 30 years is stirring up Ruckus by telling people to

like live on less than they make and it

you know really rils them up no one

tells me how to live my life that's right and so I try to do it with a dose of humor and self-awareness and get to

the objection in your head before you do

and that this book I feel like is the modern version of here's 30 plus years

of the Ramsey principles to still down through this Millennial sort of younger

lens that isn't yelling at you right but

it's kind of a snarky like hey man come

on we can do better and they still work

they still work they still work the ramsy solutions.com store what you going say well we we wanted to make sure this book was practical so we included for free three months of the premium version

of every dollar which is our number one budgeting app so you get to connect to your bank you get the paycheck planning tool all the fancy stuff the team's throwing in there you get three months of it with the book there's a QR code inside you can check out uh so get the

copy today Ram solutions.com store click

the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast and if you've checked it out and you love it make sure to spread the word and send one to a friend who could use it it's Christmas time people going to need it

let's go out to Chai toown and talk to Chris what up Chris how we

doing hello hey hey Chris hey what's

up well um hey I want to know a couple

things okay if we have we have some debt

we have some um some debt um so finding

out that as a couple we have about

$575,000 in debt I don't have a job

how much of that how much of that debts your mortgage our mortgage is

332 and a second mortgage at 65 which

ones did you know

about I knew about that and I thought we

probably had some credit card debt but I

didn't know it was this

significant um was this done behind your

back or is this you're not paying

attention I I hear in your voice you're

trying very much to not dishonor your

husband by telling the truth that he borrowed a whole bunch of money behind your back and hadn't told you the truth

yeah well correct and he also took out about

80,000 I think in our 401K that he

didn't tell me about what do he what has he spend in this on um he is spending it on I believe our

our paying what do they say robbing

Peter to pay Paul I think we're just

cycling that what did he use it to pay

not this much

cars probably some vacations that I

didn't really understand weren't real

money but credit card money um my

daughter's at um at at college and we're

we're paying for that we're paying for all her expenses she's in her fourth

year she's a senior right now okay but

we also have a a significant um son well

our son is significantly disabled and he

lives with us he's 24 okay and so that

prevents me from having an income outside of the home because you're a full-time caregiver correct that doesn't explain

180 Grand of outside spending and debt

yeah here's what you really need is for

him to sit down with

receipts okay and here and here's this

is a hard conversation we're having and we're going through it real quick um

George and I don't see very often that

this much debt this fast is taken on

things like you get what I'm saying like

it's not usually like a couple of vacations and uh and a new car almost

always there's something nefarious going on struggling is is there um is there an

addiction is there that my head goes

right to addiction My head goes right to some there's somebody else my head goes right to there's a big gambling issue like my head goes to there's something big going on and hey look if he sits

down and says no no no here's 100 Grand in college tuition here's these two

vacations here's these two cars okay

cool just show the receipts okay and

that you you don't have that piece

because the wool just got I mean the rug just got pulled out from under you it really yeah it really um it really did

so I know he likes to gamble he likes to

you know well you're buried the lead

there Chris there it is yeah own toy

receipts you're telling me that someone

who likes to gamble who spent and went

180 Grand into debt spent none of it on

gambling but what if it was over a

period of about 10 years is that

feasible anything's feasible that's 20 grand a year of course that's feasible um my how

am I gonna know if it's a gambling debt

just show me the

receipts I have a hard time believing

he's going to prove that there was 178

Grand or whatever spent on well I use

that to pay down this debt and pay the tuition and cover this cost he's not

going to be able to come up with it he's going to get defensive and he's going to get angry how did you find out Chris

we've already been there okay we've already been there how'd you find out um

but yeah he's defensive and angry and then I finally pulled up the Wells Fargo app that shows credit reports and um

debt and I was astonished okay I want

you to pull all three credit

reports okay and you can go to annual

credit report.com and do this for free don't pay for it they're all free and I

want you to compare and find out just how bad it is I also want your kids to

pull credit reports and see if anything has been taken out in their name on their um social security number again

all this is free annualcreditreport.com

and I want you to hear the words that we

this is what we call this in our H and here in this building we call this financial

infidelity that that betrayal is that

deep because now you got a special needs on this 24 and you've already been

thinking about life after you guys you're thinking about a Special Needs Trust and then you find out you're $200,000 in the

whole right yeah and so we got to we

have we have to have a come to Jesus truth telling everything's got to be on the table and then we got to figure out a plan working its way out and part of that plan is we are freezing our credit

all of it your credit my credit no one

is taking out a loan ever again for any

reason it might be telling your senior

in college you got to pay for the last semester on your own sorry we're broke

you got to sell some cars you got to sell the house I mean there's going to be some a reckoning to this what does he

make oh he makes 16 I just asked him 162

a year okay but he's in s so it's it's

you know it's up and down yeah Chris I

hope Beyond everything that this is just

the accumulation of of a couple of grand

a month over the course of 10 years I

hope that's the case it would be very

rare if there's not something else going on I I love being wrong I'm wrong often

my wife reminds me I love being wrong I

hope I'm wrong here but more so than I

hope I'm wrong I hope you get some peace in your life hang on the line I'm going to send you um Financial Peace

University this is 101 this is Back to

Basics and your husband's going to say I don't need to watch that crap he does

Hees cuz he's about to lose his wife over it okay yall watch these lessons

together and then I'm going to send you every dollar the best budgeting app and youall going to be able to keep track together on how this expenses are going

to go full transparency you don't get to

stay ignorant for another day Chris you're going to be very involved from here on out we'll be right back

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apply welcome back this is the ramsy

show triple 8825 5225 I'm John deloney

joined by George camel we have this rad

new thing called the Ramsey Network app

and it allows us to do things where we're not censored where we don't get throttled where we can control our own

messaging and our own our own words our own content so um it's completely free

and we have early releases in there we have special interviews in there we've got all kind of cool stuff it's the Ramsey Network app you can you can get

it anywhere but also it provides you an

opportunity to ask direct questions that we can respond to um people try to call

and call and call and they don't always get through on phone lines but here's a

place where they can where you can leave questions um so here's a question from

the Ramsey Network app questions from

Thomas um this is going to be a fun fun

answer because you and I probably handle this very very differently very I thought this is the question for John and I thought this is a hilarious I'd like to know George's answer to this while in baby step two how should people

prioritize emergency emergency

preparedness such as purchas purchasing

generators food water in general Supply

applies for when it all goes down

actually they didn't say that for an unknown future I added that part for emphasis cuz George I think that's the

spirit behind it it's all coming down

that's right and actually as I say that

in just um I have stored food I've got stored

water I've got a generator um and

there's a hurricane of the century heading towards Florida so this this is a legit question this doesn't feel like a uh um and while we're at it you know

the moon landing was fake and the the Earth is flat yeah this isn't quite conspiracy for real I'm going to assume the best intent from Thomas here this is a normal levelheaded person correct

correct so baby step two means you have

a $1,000 in a starter emergency fund but

all other money is going toward debt

payoff so he's saying Hey how do I prioritize things like a generator Food

Water Supplies well I would say we got

to limit what we can do we're not going to go build a bunker and spend 20 grand

but if you want to go to Costco and get a little emergency preparedness kit for

60 bucks put it in the budget and go do it um so I I would just say you got to limit how much we're spending on this

preparedness idea is this a can of gas

in the garage or is this a $5,000

generator there's a big difference and all I think there's I love that George there's some Nuance here so emergency

preparedness started a week ago for

people in the path of hurricane Milton that's headed right there right and so I

I would have considered that an emergency pause everything get water get

some food um and or fill up your cars

with gas and get some gas cans and go

stay with some relatives or some friends in a safe location so preparedness when

it's acute like man you got to do what you got to do to survive and take care of your four walls preparedness as in

maybe like me you watch a lot of YouTube videos and got some good Instagram

accounts on when it's all coming down right for me the most pressing emergency

in my household was how much money I owed people that would come knocking on

my door or take my house from me take my

my cars from me right so that is a

bigger emergency number one number two

then you begin to say okay do we have I

live in the country so if the power goes

out I don't have any water like I got to go get can like buckets of water to

flush my toilets right um that's different than living in the city so ask yourself where you are and that's a part

of living out in the country um and the

other thing is over time yeah if you don't owe anybody any money you're working on baby steps four five and six as a family save up and buy a generator

are you gonna have a portable generator or one you're gonna have built into the ground that's GNA you know automatically kick on I haven't thought this through John thanks for asking the hard questions you're welcome but again

here's what I want people to do make

these purchases intentionally don't make

these purchases haphazardly from a state

of panic remember when your body goes to

fight or flight when you watch enough videos and you start your palms start sweaty sweating and your heart rate racing you're like I God it's all coming down you're not going to make informed

rational decisions and and if you're still paying off your student loans you don't need to have five years of food

you need to pay off your student loans pay off your student loans and again all

this is coming from a guy that's got a generator in food and water like you know what I mean um and I just know a guy so that's the other you'll never

find me George you'll never make it here's what I know your Tesla will run out of charge again thank you it

wouldn't make it very far trying to evacuate anywhere unfortunately so there's that that's a

great video you just Pile in the film let's go let's go pile into the it makes

it trust me my wife was like I was like we we got her a new to her car and I was

like hey you should get a Tesla and she was like we are not going to be all like

are you serious we're going to have a gas car in the family very anti fragile

antifragile wife good for her all right let's go out to Tampa Florida and talk to Jared you should have gone to Jared

we're going to Jared what's up

Jared hey how's it going what's

up um just calling in first I want to

say thank you guys um you know working

through your guys' steps and working with Jim Stovall um is what allowed us to get out

of debt and have an emergency fund to

buy the plywood and board up our house and evacuate to Tennessee yeah well hope

you guys are safe man are you you guys

out yeah we're in Tennessee right now oh

good good good good I still I have

family down there but you know just praying for them and that's right um we

all have those family members Jared that just decide nope we're going to stay say so yeah we'll pray for him we will pray for him pray for him how can I help you today brother yeah my question is um just

thinking about future future Family

Planning uh my wife is here with me and

we don't have any kids yet but um you

know I'm trying to figure out the health insurance thing I've had people recommend High deductible with high deductible plans

with an HSA um or you know there's standard

plans or I'm on meta share um and so

what what do you guys recommend for as far as that goes well there's two kind

of uh buckets to put this in if you and

your family are relatively healthy then

the high deductible Health Plan makes a lot of sense and you get the HSA which

is one of my favorite tools out there

because it's triple tax advantage so the money goes in taxfree it grows taxfree

you can withdraw it taxfree for medical expenses so it's a really cool tool and

then like a PO plan might be better if

you go to the doctor a lot if there's kind of chronic health issues and so

there's kind of two buckets if you go to if you're like always going to the doctor you might hit that out of pocket

pretty fast and then it's covered but if

you never go to the doctor that's also a bucket where the high deductible Health Plan wins so it really depends on you and your family situation your health so what would you say is the status of your family and their health yeah we're both really healthy um

we like to do checkups you know once or

twice a year um but just thinking in a

couple years you know we want to start having kids and um

want to make sure that we've got help with that and coverage for that yeah

that makes sense well the pros of like a PO versus the high deductible Health Plan is there's a lower deductible and

there's lower out-of pocket max the cons

are there's higher premiums and there's a smaller provider Network so the high

deductible Health Plan wins when you look at the premiums every month but it does have a higher deductible so if you

guys can save up for that outof pocket max and be prepared for that higher deductible then I think it's going to be a win in most cases

and it's what I personally have for my family through Ramsey is I do the high deductible Health Plan within HSA I

imagine John does the same I don't know yeah that's that's what we do and I'll tell you Jared if I was back um running it back again having little babies um

I'm too old for that now if I was having babies um and I knew like you I'm going

to plan for two years from now or three years from now um my intention would be

to go into that three years out and save

up money and go to the hospital and say

what does the cash pay for baby and

they'll give you an all-inclusive cost

now if you have an emergency C-section something like that of course it's going to be extra but often they will almost

always they'll give you a cash option to

come and have a baby and it's inclusive of the before and some of the limited

after care so I would have that conversation but it might be just 5,000

bucks or 7,000 bucks and it's like all right we got three years to save up for that let's head on down that

road all right and then the as far as

like the high deductible plan um with an

HSA goes um that high deductible that like we'

save up for that and would that be part of the emergency fund or is that something to save up for separately or I

think it's fine to have in the emergency fund the chances of like the HVAC went out plus the deductible and all these things happening at once is very slim but let's say the deductible is $7,000

for the family I would make sure to have

at least 7 Grand and when you have your 3 to six months expenses saved up that's

likely going to be 15 or 20 grand so you'll be plenty in the clear as far as that goes yeah and George I that's I

that's what we've always done is hold the deductible as a part of the emergency fund it wasn't on top of the

emergency fund and plus you have the HSA to cover medical expenses as you begin contributing to that yeah and so if you can if you can I say get lucky if you

can go a month a year and not have to

touch that HSA that becomes a really cuz

you can invest wonderful cushion that's be on the uh the floor and then you becomes like a retirement account that's pretty cool yeah hey that's it for this

segment we'll be back in just a few minutes right here on the Ramy [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show 8825 5225

it's 8825 5225 I'm John delone joined by

George camel the handsomest face in

radio wow let's go out to Minneapolis

Minnesota and talk to Laura hey Laura

what's up hi how's it going what's going

on um well first of all I want to say

thank you um last year I worked through

the Ramsey plan and paid off my student

loans so amazing I really appreciate all

the work that you guys do how much did you pay off uh

$47,000 wow so are do you not owe

anybody anything anymore nothing nope

all right can we do an impro to you do a Deb free scream right here on the radio um sure can you scream your head

off are you in a place where you can Scream real loud um I'm in my work

parking lot oh that people already think

you're crazy it' be great it's true all

right count it down uh you paid off how much What's the total $47,000 47,000 all

right we got Laura from Minneapolis paid off $47,000 doing an impromptu kind of weird

screaming in her parking lot de free scream let it rip

do I count down count it down three two one three two

one dude look at George even coming

through all right the best is you're watching on YouTube the team zoomed in on the debt free stage with the graphic and animation well done just only thing

it's missing was you yes all right so

what's up Laura how can we help um okay

so actually well speaking of being

debt-free so um I found some land

recently um and it's a really good deal

um and I don't necessarily have the funds for it so normally I wouldn't even

consider that makes it not a good deal I

know I know but but but hear me out hear me out all right so it's 20 acres for

$29,000 oh that sounds so awesome I know

that's what I'm saying I might buy it is

there bodies buried on it why is that cheap it's so cheap um I well I can't

give the specific so I don't want anyone else to sign it wow yeah just tell me where the GPS coordinates

are so um it's like I I've driven past

this land a million times I checked it

out last night I plan to check it out with the seller I think the owner is just selling it directly I'm planning to check it out

tonight with him um and it's it's just a

wooded area a little bit of it is a I

don't plan to like build a house on it

or anything anytime soon I would

honestly like live on it in a tent um or

you know just save quite quite a bit before you know building or anything

then why are you buying this camping is a lot cheaper if you don't need 20 acres um well eventually I would like to

have you ever lived on have you ever lived in the woods I've camped

plenty have you ever lived in the woods

um no but I have considered it many

times a place where I rent I do and it's

awesome uhuh but it is not what you

think it's a lot yeah yeah so I I guess

I don't necessarily need to live there because I I do rent for pretty cheap so I could rent you know for a long time

before building on there but I guess the point of it was I don't plan to spend any more than the 29,000 I know but you

don't have 29,000 I don't have 29,000 can I give

you a great like Mama camel wisdom this

isn't I'm going to say it in Arabic I'm going to butcher it but

it's and that's what this literally translates to the camel costs one penny

and I don't have one penny is that not the coolest Mama camel

wisdom right there so here's what that means it's a the thing that's the best

deal that you can't afford is a bad

deal right so you're going to make payments on this thing that sits there

that you don't even use all for the

pleasure of knowing that you could camp

on it yes but I actually I can't take out a

loan on it because I don't have you're correct yeah cuz no banks thinks this is

a good investment and you know what the bank wants your business and when they're

like ah we can't take your

business then that's called a gatekeeper

they're trying to protect you from yourself so your only option would then

be to do like an owner financing thing

where they essentially loan you the money and you pay them back and you just create your own deal uhhuh and I have a feeling you're

actually going to try to do that when you go walk it you probably don't so

actually I was wondering maybe if there was some kind of other option like have

people convinced owners to wait six to

eight months while someone they absolutely have I mean

they've had this land forever if you really convince them that Laura is amazing this is who I want this land to go to and then you work your tail off

and go save up 29 Grand maybe they'll

call it good and say all right we're willing to sit on this land for 12 months but you're agreeing to buy this at this future date and I'm making this

up Dave is a real estate guy so I'm making this up but if maybe there's a contingency contract that says I will I

I intend to buy this in in 6 months and

here is my plan and even invoke the name

Ramsey I'm a Ramsey I I don't have the cash I'm saving up like mad I just paid

off all my student loans I really want this will you hold it for six months and here's my plan for how I'm going to get

$29,000 maybe maybe maybe so there's a small

chance yeah you're telling me there's a

chance right Lloyd Christmas thought the

same thing but hey can I tell you

something um that to give you some sort of optimism sure I promise I promise I

promise other land will pop

up yeah it just it just does it does it

does I think so I think this is a good

deal I don't usually find lands that is cheap or I haven't but also my friend

just told me last night she was like do you need 20 acres or would you be fine

with a lot less I think I would be fine with a lot less you would you would but here here's what you have in your head you've worked really hard for the last few years you're tired and you deserve

this and it's kind of a carrot out there

and it feels awesome and I dude I

totally get it I've got land for sale

all around me and I can't afford it and it makes me B na anas as the great Gwen

Stefani once saying makes me

crazy but I can't afford it and so I can

torture myself every day by being like Oh my gosh if I could just if I I can't afford it so I can go play with my kids

it's a better use of my time or go run around my dog right yeah just don't make

yourself bananas uhuh you know what I mean and

what are you gonna do with 20 acres for real like what are you gonna do are you a hunter um well sometimes okay my family

hunts so yeah and but I mean it's that

would be a lot more expensive than hunting on some some free land and what's the taxes on this 20 acres I don't actually know I'd have to

ask the owner that's a great question what the easements what is the ongoing maintenance cost it's right on land or

it's right on a road yeah and what's

eement cost to pay part of that like yeah it's

just a lot and I feel like I'm ruining

your dream and you're actually one of the people I don't want to ruin your dream I'm happy for you I wish every

American could own 20 acres it's

amazing you just don't have

$30,000 yeah but I could get there

pretty soon I think okay come up with a

compelling story get a guitar maybe sing

it to the guy maybe he'll hear that or

he may you may take him out and he just

uh um he just gets really mad that you

wasted his time he's going to look at you be like you don't have any money you be like no but I really want it in eight

months I really want it yeah you don't

have any like or a Christmas miracle and he gifts it to her at no charge Christmas miracles that's the George I

know I don't I'd always ask why you

getting rid of it it's a fair question to ask why you getting rid of it so cheap where are the bodies buried what's going on Buster yeah there's like some

secret uh it just feels awfully cheap I

know it's you know mines under there

Landing cheap these days so like a grand

an acre feels insane I know I kind of want to get it even though I don't go to you'll never find it listening to the show on YouTube or

podcast show's about to end I want you to head over to the Ramsey Network app

totally free to download you can finish

the show for a distraction free

experience if you want to go further with Ramsay we pick the calls for you filter by topic and you can get all your favorite Ramy shows in place that's important so if you want to go back and run a call back or if you want to be like hey I need a call about buying land

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coming up next and you can click the link in the show notes and go watch the rest of the show in the app for free if you're listening on the radio it's going

to continue on like radio does sorry

John I was distracted I'm now on the Ramsey Network app I'm watching you live

that's very meta it's pretty cool I

apologize if you're wondering I'm gonna go now is it hard to work with jiny in the workplace I'm not even gen I'm 35

years old man the answer is correct

you're like four years older than me whatever he's playing fortnite

underneath the table over here these gen xers they're all upset cuz they're the Forgotten generation oh we just don't

want the world to fall apart and you guys are hell bent on vring the whole

thing this good reason to tune in to the next hour in the Ramsey Network we'll see you soon right here on the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what are we doing

---

## 220. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 31, 2024)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:23 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today welcome to the Ramsey show where

we help you win in your life we want you to win with your money win in your work

and win in your relationships I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw is alongside and we're here for you the phone number is 8825 5225 that's Triple 8 825

5225 all right let's get it started with

Taylor in Los Angeles Taylor how can we

help hi guys thanks for taking my call

how are you good how are you good thanks

so pretty much some back story my husband and I have about like

$105,000 in debt between credit cards

cars and student loans and right now he

makes $8,400 a month and like we're

breaking even between like rent bills

and whatever my question is I've been

doing hair for three years off and on

and I've been doing it consistently for like the past four months now and I'm

just barely breaking even I feel like I'm not seeing a profit so my question

is would you advise like getting a different job like

a full-time job where I'm bringing in

more income because I finished the Total

Money Makeover and I feel like my mindset has changed about money and I'm

like I feel like I need to bring in more income in order to make a dent in our

debt but I don't want to quit what I

went to school for you know what I mean

well maybe it's not a a matter of quitting it maybe it's just a matter of adding two until you're making the money

that you want to make because I I think

you know the answer to this yeah you do need to be making money like you can only go so long uh breaking even and if

the if the situation were reversed let's

pretend that you had a 9 to-5 job that

you were making money and you said I'm going to go over here and do hair on the side How will I know when it's time for

me to do this fulltime what would we

tell you when you're making more money or or

when you're making as much as what you're making at your full-time job

exactly okay okay so can how does she

how does she play this yeah well I agree with you I think we look at a number that we're trying to make so what's a

number I'm assuming that when you called

in today you've got an idea of the budget the way you're talking about it so what what's the number let's take a take-home number after taxes that if you

were to bring in that right now that that seems a realistic and B it would it

would really help on the margin here so we can accomplish what we need to accomplish and knock this debt

out I would say like to help out and

knock out the debt like 20 2200 2

between 2,200 and $2,500 a month would

be very helpful okay all right and and

so what are you making right now on your current job what you went to school for so I went to school for hair and

like like said after rent no no no

you're okay after rent and like product

and stuff like that I mean maybe I'm making $200 a

week yeah so is it let's figure out

where the issue lies is the problem that

where your studio is is too expensive or is the problem you don't have enough clients or is the problem a combination

of three things where you are is too expensive you don't have enough clients and you aren't charging enough probably a combination of of of

those three yeah CU we moved to a new area so I'm so the past like four months

I've been starting from square one as

far as clients so I'm just kind of I

feel discouraged because now that I read the book I'm like okay I want to like go go go but with that in mind feel like

I'm not going anywhere yeah well first of all that's a low margin business so

I'm going to I'm going to say Amen to what Jade said earlier which is we can

come back to to doing the hair uh but

right now we want to get really intense

and so uh yeah I'm circling that number

of $2,200 to

$2,500 and the way I would come about it

is I'd go how can I help add that amount

of money what does that look like and so

you start playing it out okay so if I get a job making $20 an hour at Walmart

I'm just throwing that out there I'm not telling you Taylor that's where you got to go but I'm just saying you start to look at the possibilities and you don't

have a degree in certain things so you go okay what can I do do for the most amount of money per hour we're just taking an hourly job all right yeah but you know what you might be able to get a uh maybe get an office manager job or or

an assistant you know an administrative assistant job you you start looking at

that and you go okay what must be true

for me to bring home that $2,200 or

$2,500 that's where I would start

because that's where the ideation comes from and you begin to say okay I can go over here I can do this I can do this and so I wouldn't over complicate it this is just about a paycheck right now

in order to get into the the dead

snowball and knock it out then once we

get through uh where we want to be now

we can start to dial back and we get

back to building your business over time

and uh and then you do well but that's the advice I would give you that's because that's what I would do if I were

in your shoes I'd do whatever it takes to bring home that extra money absolutely and can I just dig a little bit deeper just cuz I'm curious uh so your husband's making you know over a

little over $100,000 a year

uh what's your what's your rent or mortgage situation how much are you paying a month right now we're paying three grand

in rent okay for at home okay um and

then you said the car tell me about the car because I'm looking for other ways that I can clear up some breathing room for you yeah so I mean we both have car

payments his truck payment is $600 a

month and mine is $400 a month okay and

what do you owe on them but we uh my car

I owe 14,000 and I think his truck we

owe 20 and what are what's his truck

worth if you were to sell it today private sale if you had to

guess I I'm not too familiar with the

truck prices but I think he's he said

around like you know 50 or maybe 45 I'm

not I'm not 100% sure okay so I would be

looking at these cars very seriously because if what you say is true and I I know that you're just taking a shot in the dark here but if it's true that he

owes 20 but it's worth 40 do you know

what that means that means that if you sell that car you're going to have a $20,000 spread of profit which means you

could get into a cash car for 20,000 and

no longer be paying $600 a

month so that's huge so by the way just

to plug that in Taylor what that now

means is that $600 comes off of the 2200

you said you need to make so now all of a sudden we we don't have to make as much and that's why that's such a huge play there mhm and the same thing could be true with yours I I would say coming

off of this call if you were to have homework it would be first off I'm

digging into these cars because that could be a pile of money sitting right there in front of your nose so I dig into both of those cars get your husband on board uh and then after that yeah

doing Ken's homework and saying okay uh

what can I do what's the job that I can

get this is not the be all end all is just to make that money and I think that

you're going to find a lot more money quicker than you thought if you guys are willing to make some sacrifices with these vehicles

okay awesome fair

enough yes thank you guys so much for

your advice I really I really appreciate you taking my call yeah and I love her

her spirit of what can we do yeah and I

think that you know when anybody comes

into the show for the first time maybe some of you are listening or watching for the first time today and one of the

themes that you're going to hear from no matter who's hosting uh on any given day

is that we're always going to recommend

the shortest distance that's right to

getting out of debt that's baby step two

yeah baby step one is $1,000 so we're

going to say what do we got to do we sell stuff you know uh we go babysit you

know we do whatever to get $1,000 that's

baby step one baby step two smallest

debts to largest Debs knock them out we're always going to say the straightest the shortest route and that

is intensity is what I'm getting at and

so it's for a season and in this case Taylor is really willing to do that I

love that they jump into together you've

done this with your hubs and you guys paid almost half a million dollars off the relationship strengthens when everybody's going we're going to both go all in and do everything we can that's

right Ken so thanks for the call Taylor we believe you guys are going to do this we're thrilled for you don't move more ramsy show coming [Applause] [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman and Jade warshaw is alongside

she takes my cool Factor up multiple

levels as I was reminded by somebody in the lobby I do my best skin you listen I

need all the help I can get and I

appreciate it hey the phone number is

88255 2258 825 5225 Jade and I are here

for you want to coach up Jade will lead

on the money stuff and I'll help you on the income side of things how about that and um that is how we get this thing

right uh and and work these baby steps

so that you truly live like no one else

all right we're going to Anchorage Alaska and Robert is joining us there

Robert how can we help today hey guys um

thanks for taking my call I I recently

sold a small business that I've been

building for six years and and in

getting about 2.2 million before tax

nice way to go yeah thanks what kind of

business was it it was a media business

like streamable assets great and good

for you I've been I've been building it since I was 18 I'm 26 now good for you

how about that yeah how do you

feel I feel excited but also really

scared scared cuz my income is going to

be gone my monthly income from this and

I need to invest this money properly in

order to replace it you know what were

you what were you paying yourself I'm curious uh I was paying myself like

$10,000 a month for me and my little

family okay and uh why' you sell it I

sold it because the deal was a higher

value than I was currently making um and

I just wanted to get more into physical

asset asset creation than digital asset creation right and the reason I asked that is because my next question is what

were you or what are you thinking that

your next move is I understand you're

calling about the investment piece and and we're going to get Jay to jump in on that in a second but I'm curious are you thinking about another business going to work for somebody else you think about taking six months 12 months what where's

your head at right now as far as new income yeah I guess I guess I'm a

creative person and I I things pop up

and I need to able to like quickly move

on you know ideas that I have the issue

is that I took this deal thinking it was

going to be capital gains tax and I

recently moved to a new tax firm and

they're saying it's going to be ordinary income so it's actually much less money

than I originally intended taking this deal yeah what will it amount to I think

it's going to slim all the way down to like 1.4 million okay um and yeah that's

a little disappointing yeah it's really

really disappointing so originally I was going to have like 1.8 out of this and I could just put

this in index funds as I've learned from the Dave Ramsey show is you know just Mo

moderate Investments that are not super

highrisk high reward and and just live

off of a small percentage for my family but now I can't do that I need to yeah

and I don't know that I would how old are you 26 26 I I 100 if I I'm just

going to tell you Jade's point of view can chime in if I woke up in your shoes

and I saw myself getting $1.4 million I

would say to myself okay I I have this

wonderful Nest Egg started so that when

the time comes and I do want to retire I

will be able to but I don't think the day is at 26 I think if you start uh

pulling the growth off of this now

you're just I think it's going to stunt

you in many ways because you're 26 you're just getting started and if you

had this idea there's way more ideas in

you uh that will earn you money and I

would see this as okay this was a great windfall that we had I'm going to put it over here it's going to grow and multiply and if at the time I'm 40 if I

want to step back and go okay whatever I'm doing I'm going to do it part-time or you know I'm working for a different cause now it's not really a money-driven thing fine but I don't think that day is

today yeah I agree in fact here's what I

would do um cuz Jay Jay's going to give

you the the any investment advice you want on this but I would take the 120

that you've been paying yourself if you've been paying yourself 10 10 10 a month i' take the 120 out of the4 and

I'd put it I'd put that in in a savings

account yeah and because you've got to

transition and and I wouldn't rely on

that I'm with you like I wouldn't I

would just put it over there and go all right let me get out and hustle a little bit maybe I take a month off whatever uh

I'd celebrate celebrate I'd go do

something real nice with the wife the MS

you know and uh and the kiddos if kiddos

really nice and celebrate I'd take 120

and I'd put that this is above and beyond your emergency fund I would just put it over there just until we get

rolling yeah and and and then i' invest

the rest I would not interest I would not even try to draw off of that for your income yeah cuz we didn't ask you what baby step are you on um I'm on I mean I I have no debt I

paid off my house throughout this business and um wow yeah so your baby

step seven yeah we own our $800,000 house outright

good we own every car outright Fant yeah

we yeah we just but the issue is that

now our income's gone we're just sitting

on this lump sum of money your income is

not it's not gone I want you to reframe that we just said we're going to take

120 which would let's say that's your

income for the next 12 months I mean you've earned that you sold the company that you started with your with your own two hands so I take take the 120 that's

my guaranteed income I don't miss a beat

for the next 12 months invest the rest

cuz you're already in baby step seven and get after and start doing some creative stuff start doing some fun stuff okay that's that's really helpful

thank you guys yeah you're welcome Hey

I'm proud of you you've done something really cool and the good news is I can

tell you guys are like frugal people you're not you know what I'm saying if

if you've done all of these baby steps by 26 you guys know how to live on less

than you make my is that you're going to

come up with something to do next and

you might live on 70 for a while or you

know until you get it back up but I I'm

with Ken all the way I congratulations

that's all I have to say thank do now do

you have an investment Pro that you that you have and you're working with beyond the tax Pro yeah and I think because I'm

26 I just assumed like this investment

would make at least you know 7% and the

more I talk with my

Pro they're like you should be way more

moderate about what this is going to do

like I don't know about that hey hey hey

hey I want you to get with a smart Vester Pro uh Ramsey we have a team of

people that we vet and they they do things the Ramsay way and so a smart

Vestor Pro is going to help you invest this money the right way for you and we

say all the time you should be looking for an annualized rate of return around 10 10% at the least oh that would make

my life yeah it will and it's not crazy

like Ken no it's not crazy I know what

my stuff makes and so it's not crazy

that's yeah that's historic that's not Jade's opinion and just look that up and and look how it does but but again let me just say this it won't make your life

Robert like this is a nice windfall for

you this is Jade's absolutely right

you're only 26 now if you invest this

and you invest it well the way we teach

you're different uh this money sitting

still is going to do awesome things for

you over the next 30 40 years lump sum

doubles every seven years that lump sum is going to be great for you but it's going to change your life down the road not right now so this is a long-term

play 10% you know with that kind of

money getting started you're going to do fine you're going to keep making money you're an entrepreneurial guy you said

it yourself you know the wind blows on

you the right way and there's a new idea

and and you and and to Jade's point

you've already proven an an an otherworldly discipline

for a 26y old dude in America I mean

you're way way way ahead of most

26% 100% yeah you're a freak of nature

you're a unicorn let's just say it yeah

I just stay I just stay really paranoid

I guess about like oh I'm just gonna

that's why we're so Frugal I think it's of like a paranoia that we're going to lose it all or something you're not going to lose it all go celebrate and and Ken and I will give you some ideas I

I love Europe this time of year look at

Jade she knows how to spend other people's money about as well as anybody I've ever met France yeah practice your

French yeah what has your wife always

wanted to do cuz you got the money to do

it mhm go go to New Zealand and see

where they filmed Lord of the Rings wow

look at you you're a virtual postcard

today you just keep it's like I'm flipping through postcards vacation

ideas by Jade I love that enjoy it there

you go all right we got to take a quick break we'll be right back this is the ramsy [Music]

show statistics show that half of

Americans don't have enough life

insurance or they don't have any at all

I don't understand this John why don't

people want to take care of their family they think they're going to die or something well I used to be one of those guys I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said hey the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I

immediately went and got term life insurance that's a gut punch and oh

you're telling me and for for decades Dave I've sat across people who've lost a spouse they've lost somebody important

to them they don't know what to do next

me too I mean you're going to have a crisis here and you know you got two

options while you're sitting and talking to a young Widow she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's

concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow that's exactly these are the two options take care of your dadgum

family man term life insurance can replace income pay off debts cover funeral expenses so your family can

actually have the opportunity to just be

sad yeah to just miss you that's exactly

what it's supposed to be it say I love

you to your family term life insurance

Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable

I've used them personally for 25 years

they're the only people I trust go to

zander.com or call 800

35642 82

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsay show I'm Ken Coleman and Jade warshaw is joining me

here in the studio here of the ramsy

show so excited that you're with us8

825-5222 55225 you got questions about

income feeling stuck um uh feeling a

little stale and want to make some moves

I'll coach you on that got your money problems Jade's got you on that and we

combine as well let's go to Jennifer

who's in Jackson Mississippi Jennifer

how can we help today yes I just have a real quick

question I have a son who is 17 about

turn 18 and my credit score is 8:30 and

my husbands is like

780 and we want to start him off on the

right track of having a good credit much

like we do and I was just wondering if

there was a particular credit card or how y'all would maybe suggest uh helping

him get and obtain a good credit score

as well okay uh I've never heard that

question on the show before actually

don't think I have I've gotten it a couple of times um Jennifer when did you

start listening I just started like about a

month ago okay great that makes sense okay we're happy to have you yes welcome aboard um so what is it that what are you

hoping he'll be able to do with that credit score I just want to learn a little bit more about your intent

here um well I just want to know that

when he he is also about to start

college um he's a senior in high school

now and so he'll be starting college and I know that he'll need you know we bought him his first vehicle but I know

that down the road that he'll need to get a vehicle and possibly be able to

have to rent an apartment for college

and this that and the other so I just want to make sure that he has a good enough credit score to be able to

get the things that he would need to get

like a vehicle later down the road or

maybe an apartment or something like that well here's I'll be honest with you here's why I don't like credit scores and here's why I I don't I've never focused on one and for you know for all

intents and purposes I don't um believe

in them at all uh because you have to

have debt you have to interact with debt

in order to have a credit score and we

also know that when you borrow money the

borrower is slave to the lender and so there's this part of the credit score that it has never it doesn't make sense

to me because it's all about how you interact with debt how much debt you have what types of debt you've had how

long you've had your debt what percentage of your debt that you're using right it's all nobody's asking

questions about can you actually afford

the item how are you managing that the

cash that you actually and the money that is actually yours that is in your bank account and so right that's why I have an issue

with the credit score what I would love

is for you to teach him away that says

okay if you have the money you can afford it if you don't have the money

right you can't afford it now let's go back to the things you talked about very good he is a very good saver right now

so he only works part-time like two days

a week and he has since this past summer

and he's already saved like almost $3,000 and has purchased like a like

he's purchased like a $2,000 CD and this

that and the other so I mean we have taught him like you do your 10% tith

then you have some that you put in this much you put in savings and this much is like your fund money so he's done that

but what I'm mostly worry about is like

once he gets off to college and he has

to rent an apartment I know a lot of

apartments look at credit scores if he doesn't have one they may be like oh we

can't rent to you well the the truth is

you're right a lot of credit card or a

lot of uh Apartments do look at your credit history uh but a lot of them

don't and the ones that do if you simply

go to them and say hey here's the thing I know you guys look at credit scores I have a zero credit score which means that I don't borrow money because I don't believe in debt but I also brought

a copy of my bank account and you can see how much money that I have here so

I'm good for the money I also brought you my pay stubs so you can see how I work and you know if you if you kind of

dig deeper and also let them know hey

they might charge you a little bit more for first and last month's rent but the

truth is you may have to do a little bit of due diligence to find people who

believe the same things you believe and can actually understand hey I actually

have money cuz those apartment complexes

are out there so let's check that one

off the list and then if we talk about the car well I don't know about you but

I'd rather him buy a car in cash and not have payments than put money down and be

loaded loaded up with a a car payment

because now we're teaching teaching him hey if you want a car you have to pay payments on it as opposed to teaching

him hey if you want a car let's buy one in cash you got $5,000 3,000 saved and

2,000 in a CD once that CD is available

let's buy $5,000 car in cash and then in

a year or two if you want to upgrade and add $3,000 more with it now you're driving an $8,000 car and let's do that

and so that you can always have your

money freed up because one of the things

we've learned um Jennifer is the car

payment is what keeps middle class middle class most people are walking around

here with a $700 a month car payment and

because they have that car payment it's tough for them to do things like invest for their future and so I'd love to set

him up with the mentality that I keep my

biggest wealth building tool which is my income at my disposal I don't give it

away in payments every month and

therefore if I'm not in debt I don't

need debt which means I don't need a

credit score okay it's a new way of thinking I

know that it is cuz people don't talk about it it is it's it's it's scary it's

scary new way of thinking but yes I I I

see your point tell me the fear I it's

not scary what are you scar of and it and it

it goes It goes beyond the rent because

so College will only be four years and

then after that it'll be he'll probably

want to buy a house and I know it's a

lot lot harder to you know obtain a

house with no credit score and save up

for big you know so let me let me let me

uh break in and I want my colleague to

tell you about that fear go ahead

explain it what if I told you that's not true I Jennifer I love this call so much

I'm so glad you're with us because you

are every woman USA right now calling in

the truth is credit scores they benefit

from us right they benefit from us being

in debt they make money off that when we're when when you get a credit card when you sign up for a loan there's a little thing called interest and so there's a lot of people making money off of that and so that's why you don't see

on TV people

advertising uh zero credit scores

because nobody's making money off of that and so this whole thing is a

product but the truth is you can buy a

house the it's no harder you can buy a

house with a zero credit score it's called manual underwriting and it's the

same thing like I told you at the apartment complex all they do it's it's

literally the same process but all they're instead of looking at your credit score they're looking at your actual money and they're going okay and

I've never heard of that I know but it's

true do you want to know that I bought my house with manual underwriting I had a zero credit score

and so okay just to clarify not not just

for you but anybody listening a zero credit score is not the same as a bad credit score that's right a bad credit score is you haven't done well borrowing

money and so you have a bad credit score

or a low credit score a zero credit

score is just as good as a high credit

score it simply means I don't borrow money and if you were to look at my credit report it would say

indeterminable and so there are plenty

of places Churchill Mortgage is one that

we talk about all the time they're everywhere in the United States except New York and Alaska and they do manual

underwriting and literally all they look at I'm going to tell you right now they look for 12 months of trade lines and

that could be you pay your cell phone bill you pay your utilities that sort of thing online or I'm sorry on time they

look for 12 months of your rental history so if he goes to rent he just

needs to show 12 months I paid my rent on time and then they want to see your

I'm sorry I gu said uhhuh okay and then they

want to see what you made over the last year and they'll ask for your pay stubs just like anything else and then they go okay great and if he happens to be self-employed they might ask him for tax returns but that is it and I just want

to clear the a for anybody you're you're

helping so many people right now because a lot of people don't know that this is a thing and it 100% is and once you know

that all of a sudden it's weird because

Ken the credit score don't mean a thing

but a chicken wng at that point so true and I love what you just said the zero credit score tells people hm this is somebody who's very solid with their money and that's all they care about is

are they going to get paid yeah so when you prove as Jade you know really laid

out well that you can pay your son's got

nothing to worry about about so that fear is natural Jennifer but it's because you've never heard what she just laid out most people never have mhm but

she's right could do your homework on it check her on it I promise you oh yes

it's popular to do these days fact check

us I think you'll like what you see this

is the ramsy [Music]

show mortgage rates of drop so if you're

thinking about buying a home in the next year contact your local church hill mortgage team right now if you wait more

people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices Churchill will help

you do the math to be sure your budget

is correct making your home a blessing

and helping you build lasting wealth

learn more at Churchill mortgage.com

Churchill mortgage.com

[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show thrilled to have you with us as we talk with you about your life specific specifically your money your work and your relationships I'm Ken Coleman and Jade

warshaw is joining me this hour the

phone number to jump in is triple

8825 5225 that's 8825 5225 well we've

just launched a brand new tour Dave Ramsey and Dr John deloney are going to hit the road and uh they're calling this

the money and relationships tour uh

little bit different twist maybe on on a live event that if you've experienced uh any of our events before uh this could be a little bit different very interactive and a lot of fun uh elements

to this where the audience is voting deciding on content of course they're going to cover money relationships and

whatever you uh want to talk about so

going to be a lot of fun kicking off Louisville uh on April the 2st 2025 and

then Durham North Carolina Atlanta Georgia Phoenix Arizona Fort Worth Texas

and Kansas City at the end of the tour so again uh

kicking off April 21 202 in Louisville

uh if you want to get your tickets get them at ramsy solutions.com tour ramsy

solutions.com tour and if you're tuning in on YouTube

or podcast you can click on the link in

the show notes to get the tickets so go

ahead and jump on that all right to the phones we go Zach is in Salt Lake City

Zach how can we help hey how are youall doing good how

are you good hey thanks for taking my

call um my main question is I'm a recent

CL graduate I graduated less than a year

ago and just started working full-time

um my long-term goal is to go to law

school but I'm just really not sure how

to financially plan for that and just

plan for my you know financial future as

a whole are you familiar with the uh

amount of law schools that will give a full ride based on elsat scores you

familiar with this anybody ever shared that with you um I've done a little bit

of research I know I I hear things where

the ones that are maybe more willing to give out better scholarships for a wider

range of elsat scores are ones where

it's harder to get a job out of the law schools because they're lower ranked um

so I feel like in some of those ways it's you know I don't know where to we

out the pros and cons versus a cheaper

law school or one where I get a scholarship versus one where there's a

higher promise of a better job or an

easier process of finding a job outside

of law school okay well I'm glad you're familiar with what I'm talking about because this is the advice I give every time I get this call and I've gotten this call several times and I've said it with Dave on the a I'll say it with Jade on the ear if it were me um sounds

controversial are you going to say something controversial Ken uh you may think it's controversial I don't think it is let me just get comfortable all right I would go to the school where I

could get the full ride and I don't care if it's got a big name brand or not because that's what that's what you're hearing and you're hearing people say

things like well the more prestigious

the more Sizzle Factor that the law school has the greater chance you have of getting placed in a firm and I think

that's garbage it's just like people saying you can't get a house without a credit score these are

all popular ideas that no one's really shown

the light of accuracy on and I'm here to

tell you my opinion I don't think anybody cares what

law school you went to and if you go to

a a smaller law school that doesn't have

the Sizzle factor and you get a full

ride or most of it paid for because of a great LSAT score and by the way that's happening all over the country it's very available the reason they do that is

because they're competing with the Vanderbilt law schools or the ivy league law schools that have all the name brand stuff but I'm here to tell you the same

people that make Jay crew they make Old

Navy okay and we got to get to a point

where we start really looking into this and we go a law degree is a law degree

and your ability to practice law is the

same whether you come out of a fancy

school or a smaller school and is there

some competitive advantage that can be proven if you go

to an Ivy League school and they've got

uh all kinds of connections into big firms yes yes but do you know what the

competition factor is there you're

competing with everybody else in your class and what I'm here to tell you Zach is if you want to practice law and you don't want to go into debt then I would do what I just said and i' i' I'd brush

up on my said I'd take it 10 times if I

had to because I can cash flow that and

then I'm going to get a full ride or pretty close to a full ride to a smaller law school and I'm going to get trained on the law and then I'm going to bust it

and I'm going to get an opportunity to go out and be the lawyer that I want to be and I'm not encumbered with any of

the debt that all these other big shot

guys that you think went to they got all this debt and they're stressed out of their mind so that's what I would do

because I can tell you anybody You Ever represent will never ask you where he went to law school is that controversial Jade that's

a good point ah it wasn't as bad as I

thought it was going to be I guess I know you better than I thought I don't

even know what any of that means what did you think I was say I don't know it could have you were setting us up for a cliffhanger no no I'm just saying go to

a law school yeah I agree with an lset

score that wants you yeah and they're going to pay for your law school and you have zero debt yeah and you can keep taking the you can keep taking the test take the L set to 60 times what's the cost to take it I want to say it's around like $200

oh yeah I don't know you can take it 60 times I've made that part up you're

saying prep and knock it out of the park

so you can get that's what I would do there's just no reason to go into debt

to then get in a Scramble with everybody else in your class you go to Harvard Law and they're all competing for the same firms yeah were you thinking about ivy league no I just made that up I I was

mainly there's a school local here in

Utah it's probably my top school um and

it's a it's I think it's turns number 22 in the nation um it's pretty good and

tuition every year is about 15,000 so

I'd come out you know if I didn't cash flow any of it would be about $45,000 in debt on top of you know any other living expenses depending on how much I'm working and stuff um and I know that's

way less than a lot of other law schools

okay now here's the other thing here's the other thing law school is goingon to be there so go go make the 45,000 in

cash flow it yeah why not yeah how long would it how long

would it take you to put that away um that's the other thing is I'm

not I'm not 100% sure like what that looks like currently in my job right now I make about 52,000 I try to save as

much as I can um trying to get out of debt in terms of paying off my car um so

I'm hoping you know within by next spring I can you know be up to the $70,000 range um I don't know you know

sometimes you kind of worry about the time frame of you know when do you kind of age out of these kind of things um

you know in terms of starting too late

in your career which that's up to you how old are you now I'm 26 okay first of

all you're going to be ready to fund law

school in two years two and a half years max if you get after it MH so so you're not too old you got

all these things in your head that I think this is conventional wisdom telling you Zach it's okay get a loone I

mean that's the conventional wisdom well

it makes so much sense you said something that I found to be revealing you said right now I'm working to pay off my car note which lets me know you don't like being in debt right and if you don't like having a car note I can guarantee you're not going to like having $445,000 of student loans M so

that was just a little light into your soul on that one but hey let me just

tell you my brother uh we both went to

college together and then he went and served a couple of Tours in Iraq and

came back and did uh social work for a

while and then he decided I want to help

people even more and he became a lawyer

and he went to night school and did it and he was in his mid-30s and then by

the time he turned 40 he became a judge so it's not too late to decide uh that's

pretty amazing you want to do and

there's ways to do it to where you're not going in in debt for it so just a little little story time there yeah Zach

the point is is there's there's no reason in our minds that you should take

out loans to go to law school you just don't need it so that's our that's our verdict I'm

gonna I'm gonna steal line I think you

need your own show judge

Jade don't see how excited you just got

I could see you man I could see you in

your own version of a Judge Judy I'd be

presiding you'd have a loud collar remember how she had the little polite white felt like a teacup I'm going to

put like spikes on mine yours would have some personality I would love that that

would be so fun you coming in in your big black robe and you kind of s a

purple Rob I want like a gospel Rob I

wasn't going to go there but I like that even more it's your show but you tell me

you wouldn't love like I would love it

yeah people coming in with their little we need a segment on this show where you wear that robe and people call in with

their and you make Financial judgments the judge is in yeah all right

the judges presided all right we'll keep

we'll keep brainstorming that amazing idea are you the BFF I would love to be

the BFF that's funny I'd look like uh

Barney F the old school bayf oh boy that

would be a lot of fun I think people would watch that hey fun hour we'll keep

concepting the show we'll be back before you know it this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

la

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause] today welcome to the Ramsey show where

we help you win in your life win in your

money win in your work and win in your relationships that's our aim we're so excited that you're with us the phone number for you to jump in because it is your show ask questions so we can coach

you you to get you where you want to be

8825 5225

8825 5225 alongside the incomparable The

Fabulous Jade warshaw I am just simply

Ken Carman Ken don't do that to yourself

it's good it's good I'm telling you it's

fun we have a lot of fun together and we're going to help you out let's go to Katie in Springfield Missouri Katie how

can we help hey guys so I am typically very

frugal and try to be wise with decisions

when it comes to money but I've been going back and forth on this idea of um

taking my daughter to a Taylor Swift concert um she's 15 and she really likes

her and I do too but the Frugal side of

me struggling with the price for a three-hour experience but then on the other shoulder I've got this folo side

um that says let's make the memories so

I just would like to talk through that interes oh my goodness this is is I have

been involved in another very popular uh

Taylor Swift call so I heard it heard it

my daughter wanted it be Rachel when I called in I'm sure Ramsey all right well I tell you

what I'm gonna listen along I mean we can so we got to find out where you're at financially yeah right so give us the picture you guys get any debt uh just our home okay just the home

no debt besides the house correct all right what's the uh

combined income

uh it's right at 175,000 nice okay how much are the

tickets going to cost oh probably

$5,000 um and then travel so probably

right under $6,000 for three hours oh so

you have to drive three hours the tickets you're getting are these like really we'll have to drive we'll have to drive seven hours but it's a three- hour experience got you seven hours so are

you staying you're staying overnight in a hotel yes ma'am so 6K total for this

trip is this for her birthday or is this

just because it's it's just because how are

you going to buy the tickets how what would be the method of

payment um so I would sell some of my um

my Employee Stock purchase

plan okay

interesting um that's your retirement

that's amazing uh no no no it's separate

from retirement it's single stocks

single stocks single stocks um

um yeah I I'm going to wait for judge

judge Jade but I I've already reached my

my answer how much single stocks do you have I'm just curious how much in that

um so we have about uh about 141,000 in

in employee stocks and about 50,000 in

single stocks so about right under 200

in both okay are these by the way are

these tickets are these um I and I'm

asking because I'm completely clueless

Katie uh are these like really close

we're looking at 2500 bucks each right

for two tickets that's a pretty good

experience right I wish I I I wish it's

the fact that it's the last it's the

last part of her tour and so they're

they're just really priced high for nose bleeds oh so those are nose bleeds at

2500 a piece wait a second wait a second

that changes my answer which is why I asked by the way because 25 100 was like

I was thinking that was artist Circle or

something like I need to be what you were thinking yes I want the sweat to

hit me for $6,000 N I can do without the sweat in

fact if I'm paying six grand I don't want any sweat to hit me you don't want t- Swift sweat to hit you no no no I I

want anybody's sweat hitting me certainly not hers okay I mean I got

nothing against the Swifty sweat I'm just saying I don't want to be sweat on

for that kind of money I'm going to let you know Katie and

is this a k I'm shth to my

core in a biblical sense that these

tickets are $6,000 you tell her listen give me a specific ruling please cuz she's got the money she has the money um

actually I have more questions about your Investments than I do about Taylor Swift but

um I mean if you want to go you can I

struggle I struggle with the seats for

the money that's where my struggle is it's not on whether or not you can afford to do it it's the Val it's the

value in it yeah that I'm I'm there

that's if if I'm being honest Katie that's where my struggle is is the value of the tickets is oh not the not whether

or not you can afford to spend $600,000

or $6,000 on a thing does that make

sense yes you can afford to spend $6,000

on something is that where you were leaning Katie why'd you call us I can do more

I'm I'm I'm struggling

because um just like to be really Frugal

but my daughter said well you know I'm

almost 16 and uh have you guys never

done anything like be there no not the

two of us yeah no we

haven't so did I did I detect a hint of

emotion just then yes because she said we're we're

just very frugal um and she said you

know like money is just money it's it's

so um yeah so it is kind of emotional

because I would love to go with her but it's like oh my goodness it's a lot of

money going to take I'm g i I am ready

oh okay I'm going to take a page out of

the Stacy Coleman handbook which is I'm unaware of this

the jar of marbles yeah oh yeah I'm

going to take a page out of the Stacy Coleman which is the days they go by and

you don't get them back is basically the the essence here yeah and I think you

have an opportunity to make a really cool memory something you've never done

before and also prove that you can be

you can be a cool mom and you can come off the wallet every now and then and you can afford it yeah do

it boy am I surprised I love that you

could knock me over with a feather right now really yeah I did I thought you were

coming in hot but uh I'm I'm going to

say because they're so Frugal this is

not a lifestyle for you guys of no we

just go hard in the paint all the time you have the money you weren't planning on putting on a credit card you didn't mention points one time it I she by the

way it's Employee Stock it's not out of her retirement right uh she said she's

going to sell some things do you have

three to six months of expenses laying around for other things yeah we have we have about 30,000

in savings okay y i I'm 100% im an

agreement with you and and and for the

reasons that life is short yeah

they have the money to do this it is

outrageous you can't if George were in

here he'd freak out because he can't George can't spend money on anything nice but it will be so Unforgettable for them that's what I'm saying and to me this is a Priceless trip with your

daughter Katie I also feel like I hear

your heart saying yes let's do this and your brain's going hold the phone and

you thought well I'll call Ramsey and we'll get somebody else to talk to my brain and in this case yes it's a lot of

money yes it's overpriced overpriced

completely overpriced painfully

overpriced but our our daughters don't

know this and in the case that you can

do this this is about a memory and one day she'll go good grief I can't believe you did that for me mom yeah and I think

that's why I do this but just don't mom

you don't don't complain if you say yes

I'm going to do it don't be like these seats are crazy and it don't just enjoy

it enjoy it for the experience because

in the nose bleed it nose bed sucks like

let's be honest about that I'm going to actually push back on that I have watched football games in the very top row of NFL Arenas and you would be

surprised these people know what they're doing okay let go uh I I think she's

going to enjoy the heck out of it the energy is going to be amazing I'm okay with nose bleeds for this okay it' really be a good experience but put aside some extra money for a t-shirt this is the RMC show

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw is alongside and we

are together here for you8 825 5225

88255 225 taking your money questions

and your income and work related

questions today uh it's time for our

question of the day brought to you by why refi there uh We've made uh We've

let me let me start over all of a sudden I forgot how to read Jade that's all right it happens to the best of us yeah that's right and live it's always exciting hey we've all made money mistakes uh so if you've defaulted a

private student loan we're not judging you but we are saying that there's something you can do about it and that's contact y refi y refi was created for

people in your exact situation go to Y

rei.com Ramsey that's

yy.com Ramsey it may not be available in

all states all right today's question comes from Hudson in Florida uh he says

I'm 26 and married with three kiddos

I've worked for the same company for six years during that time we've had a lot of growth which I played a key role in developing the company now grosses over

10 million a year and I've been offered a partnership position uh with the two

current Founders this has been what I've

been working towards this whole time

that I've been with this company but now

that it's here I'm second guessing myself and I feel like I have impostor

syndrome do you have any advice for me

so that I don't don't set myself up for failure yeah love the um love the

transparency here yeah imposter syndrome

is nothing more than doubt so the first

thing I would say Hudson is is that

you're not an impostor imposters are people who uh POS as someone else and

typically this is in a illegal operation

so someone who would try to steal my

Identity or poses me or poses someone

else to do something illegal that's an

impostor a complete fraud a complete

fake and then a syndrome is a fancy word

for some type of a disease or sickness

and you don't have a disease and you don't have a sickness what you have

Hudson is good oldfashioned doubt and

doubt only comes to people who are

attempting to move forward and so all of

a sudden after all these years you've been offered an opportunity through your hard work because Jade you you know business

you know small business yeah people

don't just come up to somebody and tap them on the shoulder and say hey we'd like you to be a partner they are giving

you my friend um a a good portion of

this company and their own equity and

they're saying we're going to split some of our pie for you that is the ultimate

endorsement so I would remind you to

remind yourself that the doubt you're feeling is because you're taking a major step up and a step up or a step forward

is always uh connected to the

unknowns and the fear of the unknown is

what's creating the doubt so what you're really dealing with is you got some fear

you got some doubt and that's very very

normal but you've earned this and so to

set yourself up to win you got to say hey I've earned this there's going to be some new things there's going to be some some Growing Pains but that comes with

the territory and I'm going to do then

what I have been doing and that is

learning and growing and becoming better so this is all mindset stuff and the

doubt by the way is very very natural

when we all step into something new doubt on the first day of kindergarten doubt on the first day of high school doubt the first time jakay goes into a division one volleyball game it listen

doubt only comes to people who are moving forward Jade you know who never experiences doubt who people with their

elbow deep in the popcorn and the bleachers wow because they're just

sitting there watching the rest oh she

should have done this or he should have done this and all this kind of garbage

are people that are sitting on the bleachers and they have no doubt they're

quite certain of their opinion yeah and what you should have done right very

good Ken and and that always kills me

you know it's like get off the yeah why

don't you why don't you put on a pair of shoes and then you see what you'll do in

that come on out here let's go how about you get out on the field or on the court

that's so true let's go you want to compete let's see how sure you are

Johnny Rocket up there into bleachers with your with your hot dog and your your diet coke and your whatever kills

me so I would like to encourage people that are dealing with doubt that tells me that you are moving forward and that

you want to move forward and and as a

result you're facing some unknowns and that's all that is you're going to do fine you're going to do fine congratulations yeah my goodness all

right let's get to Nancy in Los Angeles California Nancy how can we help

today hi thank you so much for taking my

call um yes okay so I'll just get into

it my question is how do I as a

Christian as a Believer how do I walk in

contentment daily while also creating

goals and aspiring to goals and aspiring

to you know move forward and also like

if I've heard from the Lord that I'm in

a waiting season what do I do with that

how do I balance all of that and how do

I I guess wait well and um just for a

little bit of context I'm uh completely

paid off debt this earlier this year March of this year um and and really

happy about that and um just different

moving parts and so that's really where

I'm kind of stuck is can you tell us what you're contentment tell tell us what you're waiting on and where the where the lack of contentment is is rearing its head yes sure yeah so I if

I'm being honest I we prefer that what

happened I I really dislike my job I

can't been going at all and you know i'

I've heard few phone calls and you know

I'm really embarrassed to say that it's been 10 years almost over 10 years yeah

that I've been at this job I inherited it it's a union job it's very coveted in

my area a lot of people you know wish

they could have this job what are the reasons that you do not enjoy the

job um well it's not challenging at all

um I don't feel like I'm you know using

I don't it's not challenging mentally or

intellectually I'm not I don't feel like

I'm really going anywhere or doing

anything moving forward and then also um

just it's kind of rough like the people

I work with it's mostly men it's like I would say I count sometimes it's like 40

men to two women and it's a it's a blue

collar job so can I tell you something

can I tell you something I'm gonna be really really honest with you um I love

your spirit but I think you've got this

all wrong and I think you're trying to justify this this movement inside of you

this restlessness inside of you you're

trying to justify not acting on it I

think you needed to leave a long time ago go Ken and I don't say that as a

criticism I say that as a coach um you

don't need to be content you need to

follow the restlessness in your soul you

aren't being challenged in this and that

means you aren't using your god-given ability to the extent that you can and

that's why you feel this way and it's okay to go I'm one or two women in a in

a in a in a blue collar room with a

bunch of dudes that doesn't make you

discontent that makes you a a living

breathing human being who is aware and

Nancy I'm going to hand it over to my colleague but uh I think you need to be

leaving you do not need to be any more content I think you're now relying on

this excuse of contentment to step into

like our call the question we just got

right cuz what did you think what you were going to feel when it was time to go that's my question

um if you weren't going to feel

discontented if you weren't going to feel frustrated and tired and like it's

time to go then what did you think that you were going to feel I don't know I I guess I guess

since it's I inherited it I just have

felt like I need to just be grateful and

just you know just I think you have I

think you you've been grateful in in

heavy doses yeah you've done everything

you need it's time to leave yeah you can be grateful and move on like just

because you you don't stick around with something forever doesn't mean you weren't grateful for it it's like you go

to a restaurant somebody served you a meal you ate it you were grateful for it and you move you left you went to your

next destination good call right say I

was really grateful for seventh grade but I don't want to stay there yeah seventh grade was a good year for me it was a big year I may have peaked but uh

that's a whole another call you know Nancy I do you have a sense we only got

about 40 seconds so real quick yeser do you have a sense of what you want to

do um I have a few ideas I'm in school

for herbalism I'm interested in ux

Design Graphic Design um all right so

here I've got something for you creativity all right so hang on the line

Christian let's get her copy of find the work your wired to do it comes with the get clear assessment ncy I want you to

take the assessment first then read the

book it's like me coaching you through your results I think it's going to reveal and confirm some things for you but hear this from Jade and I you don't

need to be content in a place that you're not supposed to be yeah it's time

to get a plan together and eventually we're leaving we believe in you Nancy you're a good good lady this is the ramsy [Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

budget the Ramsey Show rolls along from

our Nashville area based headquarters

thrill that you are with us I'm Ken Coleman and Jade warshaw is alongside

the phone number is 8825

5225 let's go to Chris in Sacramento

California Chris how can we help

today hi guys I just want to say thank

you for hearing me out um I'm 27 and I'm

getting married within a week and I have

a debt no debt sorry um but 65% of mine

income is going to my house and we're

drowning about negative 20% per month on

our utilities and groceries and we've cut back and I'm debating on whether I

sell my home rent my home I have an

opportunity out of the area for a job

that I would be able to live uh rentree

and just trying to figure out life wow

well what we know to be true is this

$65,000 this 65% mortgage uh can't

continue so we know that's true right

right so that kind of takes the weight

off of our shoulders to know okay we can't stay here and then the question is

what do we do next because you said you've got an opp now we can start to say okay do we want to do the opportunity that's outside of the area

what does it look like um I think you

mentioned renting this house and so now let's talk about those other options so

is it fair to say that we both agree you

can't stay in this house yes okay so now

now let's talk about what do we do with the house if I were you I'd sell

it I'd gross about

150,000 i' probably met after real

estate fees about 135 I like that what's

wrong with that nothing it's more it's

just my first home I just put $100,000

into it last two years and you know I

was envisioning having my kids here yeah

yeah so there's just the emotional connection to it um how long did you

have the property two and a half years I put about

$150,000 down on the house when I bought

it and I had a really good management

position at a restaurant before and that's where I'm going to now for the new opportunity um I tried to start my

own business and it didn't work out

exactly how I hoped but I I'm

recuperating my losses and I'm just

trying to get back on my feet I'm currently serving at a restaurant right now and I've been getting by with that

and me and my fiance have just are net

income together it's just we're R we're

not we're not making it you're in

Sacramento why are you guys staying in Sacramento for jobs that sound like you could do

them really in anywhere in any part of the country well and that's where that's

why we're moving it which is more of a

do we rent the home and make a a profit

per month about $100 $200 or do we sell

the home put the entire you know net

into a money market account yes and make

about $400 a month on money market let's

do the lad let's do the ladder because

if you have the opportunity to rent somewhere out of the area and they're covering the rent then this is an

opportunity for you to start over let that money grow that Equity that you're going to get out of the sale of this home let it grow over time because the time is going to come when you want to buy again I did I just I did have a math

question on this because I thought I heard you say that you put 150 down on

the home and then I also thought I heard

you say that you put 100 into it is that

right so you put 250 into this home but

you're only coming out with 135 what happened there uh bad

contractor um I got really jacked up by

that I lost probably about $50,000 maybe more and yeah and I mean I

I'm not a contractor guy I I you know I

was doing my job and I ended up going

underneath the house and I just saw problems and I saw problems long story

short cost me a lot more and I was

paying the mortgage at the same time as

I was living in it so I was you know

unfortunately paying double for away

yeah so it just really drained his out

and then I just paid off all my credit card debt um I had about $117,000 in

debt we completely debt free have car

payment yeah so there's there's some

Silver Linings here I think the hardest part is you had a vision for this house

you got taken for a ride and that sucks

and now as a result you know it's not going to be the house that you raise your family in but I love that you have other opportunities and and I mean you

can kins here on the on the career side

of this to to weigh that out I take

advantage of that while you're on the line yeah well Christoph I heard you

right you've got a really good manager gig you're heading into so you feel good about this yes I'm super conf it's a

nice restaurant and uh South Lake Tahoe

and it's it's to the ninth it's like my dream job so fantastic and did you say

South Lake Tahoe yes oh man that's that

ain't a bad place to work come on chis

and I'd be going for I it just it all

makes Financial set Y and it's just I

just I have with my business I've kind

of had some regrets on that and I don't

want to have my cart in front of the horse and I love it you're asking the right questions Jade gave you great advice you do not want to be a landlord from long distance this is time to move on this is

a clean start and and I think it's great

for you you're going into your dream job in one of the nicest places in the United States to live and um and you're

going to get free of this house which is just been nothing more than a money pit for you unfortunately so yeah sell and

move on my friend sell and move on I

love that and do you want to take another call or can I highlight this for peopley I want to highlight this because a lot of times people are like why does it have to you know we teach that the mortgage shouldn't be any more than 25%

and I know there's a lot of questions around that and this is a really great um it's just a cautionary tale of what

takes place when you don't heed that advice because if you really think about

it it you know if you look at your your

money as a as a whole thing you know

100% I love that you've got an orange for our listening audience she has a she has a little Tangerine in her hand yeah and if you think about it as segments

right we got to cut it up in a segment it's going into segments and so if you think okay if you do let's pretend like

yeah I'm taking your advice 25% okay now

we got 75 left and then it's like okay

if you're a person who values generosity

most of us do so you give another 10%

now you're at 35 and now you say okay

well you've got to invest baby step four I'm investing 15% now before you know

we're already at 50% of our income and

we haven't even paid our other bills yet

we haven't done Child Care yet we haven't put aside for kids college yet we haven't uh you know done taken a

vacation we haven't even done anything yet and we're already out 50 so imagine

what it would feel like if your mortgage was at 40% or 45% you feel that very

very very very quickly so it's it it

behooves you it's a great word you know

I like a good word it does behoove you

to to think about okay what are my

ratios here and is this sustainable longterm because

65% like you said they're burning 20%

every single month there ain't enough Tangerine left over there ain't enough you got to eat the by the time you

do that is fantastic that's why I showed

up today for that moment that was good

yeah but it's it's a wonderful illustration and and then I want you to

while we're on this okay also why we give him the advice don't try to stay don't become a landlord

don't keep that house because he think well I'm going to make 400 bucks a month I want you to walk through the math the real math when people think that that's a good idea well I think for him it was more of a sunken cost fallacy I feel

like he thought well I put this much into this property if I hang on to it

for a while and keep dumping effort or

whatever it is into it maybe I'll get it out and for a lot of time for a lot of us that's kind of what keeps us locked in to something that's just a bad break you kind of have to just m eat pith and

go this this was a bad break it wasn't a

good investment you know I got taken for a ride and walk away and for him going

all the way to from Sacramento to South

Lake Tahoe and now you're going to be a longdistance landlord yeah trust me when

he rolls in in that moving van to South

to South Lake Tahoe he's going be like I don't I'm knock knocking Sacramento yeah

all right but that's a difference he's going to be like forget you want to leave all that behind yeah you want to leave it behind and had a bad taste in

his mouth so I think for him to come out he's clearing 135 it's not as much as he

should that's right but it's still money

and it's going to sit in a high yield for however long until they're ready to

buy I agree and when they buy they're

going to put as much down possible on a

15year fixed rate mortgage hopefully

that they can get paid off quickly he's already debt free yeah and so so the

principle of this whole segment is uh do

you know what it is you've been saying it don't eat piss there it is

by the way spell that for people p i

hith p i t h is that right I think I'm

going to a hidden letter in there we did

we got validation the guys in the booth

great yeah yeah think about the ratios

of your income think about each section like this Clementine I hold in my hand

oh it's Clementine it's even better

Mandarin love it that's how we're going

to do this make sure it's right Phil we

went back to Sesame Street you laid it out for us I love it good stuff all right quick break she's Jade warshaw I'm

Coleman we'll be right [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show thrilled that you're with us I'm Ken Cola Jade warshaw is with me as well8 8255 225

taking your money questions and your

work related or income questions to that

end the get clear assessment a tool that

was privileged to create few years ago

it's helped hundreds of thousands of people and uh just wrote a new book

called find the work you're wired to do came out a little earlier this year and it includes the get clear assessment so

what does the assessment do well it

answers four really big questions who am

I what's my unique wiring and we're

talking about uh in the context of work

um why am I wired that way what do I

want to do professionally and how do I get there and that's what these two tools combined do for you you're going

to spend about a third of your life at work and I just believe with everything

in my being um that you shouldn't spend

it just doing something um that you're

okay at or that you're good at but you don't enjoy it doesn't produce a result

that motivates you so you can get the book find the work you wir to do and it comes with the assessment to get clear assessment you get it at ramsy solutions.com stor ramsy solutions.com

SL store or you can click the link in

the description of the show if you're listening via YouTube and podcast all

right to Susan is uh where we're gonna

go she is in Dallas Texas Susan how can

we help hi um I just went through a

divorce or finalized it recently it took

a while um and I've been a stay-at-home

mom during my entire marriage for um the

past 14 years anyway um I got what I

consider a pretty good amount of money

and I'm just curious I don't really know what to do with it I let my ex-husband handle every single bit of finances I

never knew how much money we had or

anything um so how much are you

getting um well there's a couple

components to it I got a check for 1.1

million okay um I got a 401k for 715,000

okay and then um

$115,000 per month for the next eight uh

seven years okay how old are you I'm

40 okay so you've got a guaranteed

income for for the next seven years

that's nice okay um okay great so tell

me your question okay so my question is I'm

completely debt free I also don't own a

home because I just got divorced okay um

so you need a place to live right I'm

renting right now which is $3,600 a

month which I feel like is really expensive but it is um it's also all

bills paid so my question I guess is um I've

got like $95,000 in a high yield savings

account I started a a

rth IRA I'm like totally I know nothing

about Finance so I've just been trying to learn just in the last month or so um

anyway my question basically is a can I

live like with can I live off of part of

this money like off of the monthly income or do I need to get a significant

job well the good news is the good news

is is you do have a monthly income for the next seven years so you've got some

time to reinvent yourself and figure out what you want to do with life and if I were you obviously you don't need $115,000 per month figure out what do I

need what's a what's a fair budget for me um maybe it's $7,000 a month and then

you take the rest and you're you invest it every single month right so okay

that's thing one you've been bought time

to figure out a career path for you and I'm going to toss it to Ken in a moment for that but let's talk about the rest

of the income that that you have so

let's say just for in just to keep it

simple let's say you invest half of what you're getting every single month for the next seven years so around 7 and a

half thousand or 7 and a half thousand

and then you've got 1.1 million that's a

check right yes yes and I didn't know

what to do with that so I just put it in a money market account because I didn't even know how to deposit that great I I

think that's a good place to start what I want my homework for you is I want you

to start learning about investing I want

you to start understanding okay I know

husband ex-husband used to do it but it's now time for you to start learning because the time is going to come where you're going to need to invest this and you're going to want to understand it you don't want to just hand a check for for $1.1 million over to any body and

say here you handle this you're going to

want to say okay I get it and a great

place to start is here you know here at Ramsey we do teach that investing is a

better place for you to build long-term

wealth than a money market account or a high yield savings account simply because of rate of return right if you

invest that money you'll get a higher uh

compound interest rate of return on that so it'll grow faster and so I would tell

you to get hooked up with a smart Vester Pro um they're going to have the heart of a teacher and they're going to be able to teach you about this and that's

the key thing tell them I don't want to invest anything yet I just want to learn

right and they're going to ultimately have you invested in a way that's um uh

four different types we're spreading it out it's not going to be high risk it's not going to be just in a set of stocks but I want you to understand that so when the time comes we are investing that check but in the meantime we're getting with a smart festor Pro to teach us and then as far as the $715,000 401K

yeah leave it let it grow you're probably probably going to have to do a direct transfer rollover into an IRA and

so the smart Vestor Pro is going to help you do that and then for you now it's

all about career and what you're going to do with your life because you're

super young I got a couple quick questions on the money first so the 715,000 how old are you I'm 40 oh my

gosh it's going to be so much money so the 715 that that is in the 401K and

that then that's your that is going to be a lot of money uh what is that going

to be in 30 years okay did you tell me

you're 40 now yeah she's 40 okay so

let's just say you retire I don't know

let's say 65 does that sound good okay

okay let's say you add nothing to it

that right there is going to be $8

million holy cow just not touching it

the reason I went to that Susan is

because on this work thing I this this

may or may not be a thing now how old are the kids um they are 14 and 11 my other

thing is can I buy a house like yes I

was going to say that I was working which money do I use I would take the

1.1 the 1.1 check is is what you need to

do plus you already have 95,000 in

another savings account so I was going to ask you what is a modest house in a

nice area what is a house price you know

your area for you and the kiddos what does that look like what's the what's the money on that I mean right now

there's like nothing to buy I've looking

um I mean there's a a nice home for

500,000 that okay it's let's just use

need let's just use that as an example

okay so if I'm you and and then I'm

going to pay cash for the house because

right now you're paying $3,600 a month

in rent yeah so you take just little bit

less than half of the 1.1 and you've got

it paid for a house now that monthly budget which I'm using is the 15,000

you're getting in the settlement mhm now

that 3600 was coming out of the 15K it's

not anymore right and your utilities and

things like are going to be nothing you still got the two kiddos in school so so

I would come up with the every dollar budget and and and budget off of the 15

and I would do the the some type of an

investment strategy based on what a

smart investor Pro tells you because

Jade already proved to you you don't have to put another Penny and I'm not saying not to but I'm guessing I'm

guessing their investment strategy is going to be you're going to diversify some stuff because right now uh you are

more than fine Susan like you're going

to be very very wealthy and uh based on

just the 401K and what it does over time

so for me if I were you I I would take

my time you just came out of this divorce you've just settled I'm fine

with you renting for a little bit longer you're saying the market right now is not a lot on the market we's see what happens after this presidential election the point is grieve stay cool the 3600

while it's a little expensive it's not

even phasing you I would take my time

I'd buy a nice house cash and now you

still have over half a million dollars to invest and when you invest it you're probably going to look for something that's non-retirement something that you can get to sooner that's in some sort of

a bridge account so that you can access it you know before you're I agree with

that and that that should be the advice

years yeah but for seven years my

goodness but here's the deal um you're

going to have some margin in that monthly as well that's $180,000 a year

for the next s years yeah you're good so

from a standpoint of work uh hang on the

line we'll give you the the the book find the work you're wir to do in the gate clear assesment but that is a relaxed like what would I do if I didn't

have to work which by the way you don't have to you don't have to I was just

talking purpose yeah so sorry we're

running out of time Susan hang on the line we'll get that to you but thank you for the call you're going to be in good shape this is the ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

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it weird okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

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## 221. The Ramsey Show (Replay for January 1, 2025)


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| **Video ID** | `kasEKDcJGmw` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kasEKDcJGmw) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:11 |

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[Music] brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music] today from the Ramsey Network it's the Ramsey Show I'm your host Jade warsha next to me is George Campell we've got a Rowdy studio audience uh over there

behind the glass if you don't know you can actually come here to Ramsey Solutions watch the show live a lot of people choose to do that and we're happy that they do if you're not here live you can call in the number is 88255 225225

and we'll get you on the line we've got the incredible Christian over there screening the calls making sure you're not a psycho but we don't think that you are so let's go straight to the phone lines we've got Lily who's in New York New York what's up Lily hi thanks for taking my call I'm

calling because I want to know your guys' opinions on me taking a second

consolidation loan out for my boyfriend's credit card de it's not even for you that was like three bad decisions wrapped up in one how did we get here so I've been with my boyfriend for about two years and when he met when we met he was making a good income I always

make a good income um he I guess didn't

really understand credit cards I'm a credit card person and I know you guys use that term but I I really am I've never been in thatt um I'm the one person that's able to like reap the benefits not pay the interest okay but I my boyfriend has taught me now why people are not credit card people okay um he didn't really understand I guess interest and the

first time around was about a year ago I was hoping to move in with him take the next step but we wouldn't do that he was about 20,000 in credit card debt okay and so I had an

offer 0% interest 15 months up to 20

grand I said I don't need it I'll take it and um I gave it to him it was about 15 I took some for myself and wait you gave him hold on hold on let me make sure I understand this you took out the credit card in your name but gave it to him to use no so it was a it was a credit card loan he had his own credit card

but I took out a consolidation loan for him because I I was given an offer like to me to just take out x amount of money I need but it's in your name yes and it's mostly paid off

actually okay so help me explain where

we're at now cuz thought is like if you took out one and it didn't work why are we taking out another one and why isn't he doing this did he pay this off or almost pay it off or is this you the the loan he he almost paid it off um it's about like 90% paid off uh

the reason why we're here again is because um he continued to use credit

cards and and I I maybe that can we didn't change any of the habits you bailed him out like a government bail out and then he went uh more please listen this is a red flag it bothers me there's a couple things that bother me about this um a that you're on the line and he's not that's the the the Raging

thing is all on you and then you're the one taking out yeah to George's Point you're the one taking out the loans even though he's paying it the loan is in your name and you're saying hey you can do it like this um yeah it feels like

you're kind of in charge and you're trying to mold him into who you want him to be financially and he's like all right you want me to do this okay I'll do it a little bit and I does do you see

that yeah I I definitely do and and

that's something I I you know plan toward I think that's probably what happened the first time at this point you know he's 30,000 in immediate debt

if not more oh so we're we went from 20 paid it almost off and now we're at 30 yes okay and what's he spending it on

does he not have a job what's going on no so he takes home about uh yeah he makes 80 before taxes so he compe is

about 43 a month um and I we did the math we did the numbers we just moved in together and um I didn't know he was back in De until we after we moved in together so um I would have not have done that but what type of work does he do and what type of work do you do because you guys are living in New York City

I want to see if you're living in New York City you it better be like suits like you got to have a reason to be there right right so we were both born here and raised uh he is a uh

junior project Pro manager in the city and he he makes pretty good and then I am I do have a couple of jobs I'm a teacher assistant and then I'm a bartender and I have a lot of side jobs I take home about 4,500 a month after

taxes and everything and like I said his take call Master tax is about 43 a month okay so here's here's the the short end

of the conversation and then we can go back and Trace back how we got there you guys are living together that's your choice you're living in New York City which feels too big for your britches for the jobs that you're doing but that's also your choice going forward what I would not do in your shoes or in his shoes is I would not combine my money with

this person that's A1 and I would not put my neck on the line to get them out of debt because there's not a true true commitment there and there's certainly no legality there to protect either of you um and so I would keep

this I would not if if you're going to choose to live together that's your choice I might say something different and I would say something different I'd ask well why don't you just get married married but if you're not going to get married at the very least keep your money separate because he's getting himself into this mess and he has a habit of spending more than he makes

he spends all that he gets and then some and he's not really interested in doing anything about it George she seems like to be the only person who's interested in getting him out of that which again is you care more about it than he does and at this point it's enabling would you agree yeah I mean I

would agree um with which why I came to my Breaking Point recently and it sounds like you've made an ultimatum like Hey we're not going to move this relationship forward unless you get out of debt yes but then you moved in with him

right so you took back your words it was after I found out after got it so it was there's another

part of this which is like I found out so it was kind of a secret that he was going back into debt am I hearing that right breaks the trust in the relationship he wasn't taking it seriously yeah it was that was bad I agree and the acknowledge is like that was not okay yeah do you have any debt sort of pushing it on no um I don't I

have maybe 10,000 in student loans but

that's not a curing interest and um so trick question number one you do because you took out the credit card Loan in your name plus you still have the student loans so you've got your own financial goals and we're trying to babysit this guy into doing the right things financially so I feel like we got to get our duck in a row and you go dude you live your life we're not going to combine finances

you want to take this seriously let me know at this point this relationship is at a standstill yeah Lily we have a studio audience here and

they're listening and I kind of want to know cuz based on what you're telling me if you were my best girlfriend I'd be like man it might be time to kick this guy to the curb and I want to know what they think by a show of thumbs up or thumbs down they did the Gladiator thumbs up there's a lot of thumbs up over here Lily because

we are seeing a woman who's trying to move move forward we're seeing a woman who understands what she needs to do in life and it's almost like you're being more of a mom to him than a a lady friend you know

what I'm saying like you're taking care of him you're helping him to do and don't get me wrong there is a there is part of a relationship where you are helping each other and you're you're teaching each other but this feels a little bit more you're going an opposite directions mhm and so that's what worries me so I would I would have a real hard conversation and

I would was I would also go I'm never letting anyone loan I'm never loaning money to anyone ever again no no at the very least I would not be living with this guy at the very least because that for you that's your leverage to say hey I I have goals and there's some things I want to do and I'd love for us to be on the same track

and going in the same direction with our money I'd love one day for us to be able to combine our lives and get married but you're not doing your side of it and I can't move in with you right now yeah you're one step away from paying this guy's bills cuz he goes oh man can you my rent I'll venmo you next month I promise yeah don't like that yeah don't don't give away your leverage um yeah

I want to what's that that that they say George uh no one's going to buy the cow if they can get the milk for free oh yeah there I know I just turned into my grandmother this is the ramsy

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[Music]

[Music]

you're listening to the Ramsey show next to me is George camel I'm Jade warshaw we're the ones taking your calls today so if you call in this is who you get the number Isle 8825 5225 George you

ready to get into it I hope so let's do it we got Lee from New York New Jersey what's going on Lee yeah hi um I listen to you guys all

the time I really love your show and um

I um wanted to call because uh my husband and I have a some credit card debt okay and we're debating about whether we want to transfer the balances

of that those credit cards to different credit cards for a 0% interest while we pay it down how much is the credit card Deb more um we have one card that has about n uh 20,000 on it and the other one has

12,000 okay and what's the current interest rate uh probably between both of them somewhere between 27 and 29 added pain and reg that's what APR stands for George what do you think yeah so here's the deal these are not inherently evil these 0% balance transfers but you got to know what you're getting into and you got to know that it's not actually doing as much as you think most people do

these transfers and think they've actually done something to get out of debt but if you're already crazy gazelle intense you've sold so much stuff you're working extra and you do this as one little move

while keeping intensity then it can be okay but you're going to pay you know anywhere from 3 to 5 % to make this transfer happen so it's not free it's going to cost you something and it does not actually speed up your debt payoff if you're not already intense so what what makes you think you're going to pay off this 32 Grand before the 0% uh is over or is this gonna be a z

perc card or what yeah both I would like to have both of them be a Z perent card for a anywhere from 18 to 21 months um we already are paying probably

clo I've already paid off my car we're getting ready to pay off another smaller debt um next week um my husband got a um

pretty good pay raise okay good um so

we're hoping that we can pay about a thousand a week wow good to these credit cards but getting them down to 0% um while we're doing that we have two

kids we're still trying to maintain life things like that but um we are getting very serious about paying off that because we'd like to start saving more for our kids college and um for

retirement so what's your total debt and what is your household income so um the credit cards are about

32,000 um our furniture is about 3,800

we do have a smaller annuity that my husband pays quarterly that's about 6500 and our mortgage is about

534 Okay so ignore the mortgage for now

that'll be a baby step six item later on so you're looking at about we'll call it uh 40 Grand in debt right I do have an $188,000 student

loan but it's eligible for forgiveness as soon as you know that goes through

when what do you mean as it goes through

so um yeah I like you've already youve paid the right amount of payments is this the psls yeah I'm on public yes it's public service loans for I've already had a $200,000 loan forgiven good okay and this is this is the remaining 18,000 um which was a separate direct loan and that is I've I've been actively calling to see when it's going to be forgiven unfortunately I haven't been given a time that's the when that's going to happen but you've done your side um yes yes I have enough

payments to be forgiven and what's your household income um my gross income my personal

growth income before taxes I work two

jobs um is

about 90,000 wow and my husband with his

with his thank you with his new job

Venture it's a little bit on the wax and Wayne side it's when he gets work he gets paid well when he doesn't we kind of have to like pinch our pennies what's a good what's a good month and what's a bad month a good month is five ,000 a

week okay to before taxes okay and um a

bad week is 2,000 a bad A bad month is

probably somewhere around 8,000 taxes okay well that's not bad he's Fe 200,000 you guys are making hundreds of thousands of dollars so this debt should be paid off in a few months yeah the the

the consolidation at that point is truly negligible because this would be gone in under a year what what's keeping that from happening because to to be making over 200 00,000 well over 200,000

um and having $40,000 of debt helped me

understand because I'm thinking okay why aren't you just living I mean I know New Jersey is an expensive area but is there something I'm missing here um I I'm just trying to get I'm

really at a point I'm 39 years old my husband's 41 we haven't done the best in

Saving throughout the years unfortunately I've been with my husband for 17 years um you know so I mean well

that doesn't really answer my question because you almost make 300,000 but do you see our Point here the balance transfer doesn't change any habits and that's what worries me here a couple making $300,000 shouldn't be needing to go to debt for furniture they shouldn't be needing to swipe the credit card and so that's what I'm trying to figure out is what got us here and how are

we stopping that part before we ever agree to this balance transfer I have a feeling it's a budget thing can you tell us about that it is okay it is our budget is not exactly the where I would like it to be and we're starting to get a little stricter with how we spend our money are you using every dollar I have not yet okay we're gonna that's

the key we're going to give you every dollar because something tells me you guys are kind of uh set it in forget it I made a budget three months ago kind of you know in my head we looked at our bank account yeah we should spend this much and that's where every dollar is going to really help is are George and I right a budget

issue for us yes agree um so we'll give

you CH before we get off the line Christian will pickup we'll give you every dollar and it's a budget that you make every single month and the good thing about every dollar is it kind of has this kind of copy paste feature where at the end of the month you copy it and then for the next month you just go through it and make whatever tweets and changes

you need for that month but what George and I want for you to do is understand that every month is different you have different goals you know different things pop up and so the budget needs to change to reflect that and here's the thing you make $300,000 a year a little bit more um you don't have

a ton of debt in ratio to that but I think you're kind of in this what we would call messy Middle where your income is good and so your debt it's not like you know it's nothing's on fire it's nothing's on fire right it's not the serial killer at the door it's just like all right this is moderately uncomfortable and so I think there's just a creeper out

the window but he's down the street that's kind of how it is yeah your debts a Peeping Tom it's it's not the analogy Jade wanted to make but I I forced her to do it okay but do you see what we're saying here yes absolutely I want you to act like it's on fire because that's the only way you're going to get out of this thing in three months cuz

I think you guys are incredible you work really hard and you make too much to be this broke would you AG 250 I agree I agree I am actively

working to try to revamp our spending and our and our budget is he on board with that expensive so we're working on that but is he like an anchor that's going to drag this down or is he on board and he's gone willing to do whatever it takes no he he is he's

resolved to letting me kind of like handle the financial part of this and whatever it is I need him to do he's willing to do but he needs to be a part of this budget making Because unless he sees it and he goes oh my gosh Lee this is insane we make so much money where is it going he's not going to be willing to make the right sacrifices

and if it just becomes a well you do this I do this it's just going to become another to-do list for him and I want him to really feel this yeah I agree okay agree so we

need to give you every dollar we probably also need to give you Financial Peace University for you and your husband to go through together um so that you can be on the same page and he can see that he's really an intricate part of this equation just as important as you are and you might be the don't get me wrong usually there's one spouse that kind of takes a slight lead right George you're probably

the one who's going to be kind of pluging the numers yeah pilot and co-pilot like they both have to be in the cockpit paying attention that's right you're not a passenger on the plane that's right not a passenger I agree very good analogies George I feel like I had to redeem it after the Peeping Tom one like I owed you that you took me there um but

the point is a lot of you listening are probably still in that messy middle your your income is good and the debt is just at that point where it's not ruining your life yet and you're still able to go to Applebee's every Friday you're still able to you know buy the new sneakers you want but it's kind of that that creeper in the corner and you see

it and now's the time to deal with it don't wait till it gets worse we can help you today this is the ramsy show [Music]

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chministries.org budget that's chministries.org budget

[Music]

all right you're listening to the Ramsey Show we're here on the Ramsey Network it's myself and George camell today um

hey that last call we just took was all about the budget you know it was a couple or family they're making $300,000

George making great money but still feeling the weight of living paycheck to paycheck seemingly not able to pay off $40,000 of debt and when I look at that I mean it's the budget every time it's not being intentional it's really not having a budget you know a lot of people think it's I said it and forget it we made it at the beginning of the year well

we have to Define what a budget is because a lot of people think well Jade I look at my credit card transactions that's like doing a budget no they're way off no I looked at my bank account there was money left I did a budget no it's not something in your head it's not your bank account it's not a credit card statement it's an actual budget like a budgeting app like every dollar that's right

and so the way we teach George is we want people in there every single month you're starting with your income all of the income that comes into your household and there's a area for you to put the income in and then you go through and you're methodically thinking about every area throughout the month that you could spend money and it's divided into categories so you know it's like your your lifestyle stuff it's your utilities

and home and your transportation and you can customize it but essentially you're giving a assignment to every single dollar and you're knowing on purpose this is what I'm spending on even the extra money you're giving an assignment to right and that could be paying off debt that could be going towards savings that could be just you know miscellaneous it could be a cushion it could be you know Grandma's birthday whatever

you decide that's what every dollar is for and so you're really making the most of your money and the way you do that is by creating a budget guys uh every dollar makes it so simple they make it easy to plan spending you can track expenses you save for what matters most to you and like George said it's all in this easy app that is on your desktop computer or

it fits in your pocket so you can take it with you to the grocery store and your spouse if you have one has the exact same Budget on their phone with the same login it makes it that easy so if you don't have it download every dollar for free you can do that in the app store or you can do it on Google Play or or you can just click

the link in the description if you're listening to this right now on YouTube or podcast but the the the Crux of this is we have found that people who manage their money well and people who have success with their money they do it because they're on a budget so there's a direct correlation there um get a budget all right George let's get back to the phone lines

we got Vincent he's in Fort Lauderdale Florida my neck of the woods what's going on Vincent hello hello uh good morning good afternoon good afternoon what's weather like oh uh you know we didn't really get any issues over here from the storm praise to the Lord I heard it's sunny outside I heard it's pretty sunny yeah warm and beautiful love toar I just want to say uh thank

you for you guys taking the time to um to take my call and so I was actually watching George this morning on a video with Tom uh from like impact something yeah Tom B impact Theory had a fun interview with him on my YouTube channel thanks for watching yeah it was really good um yeah so my situation is a little different than average American I'm a 39-year-old uh 100% disabled veteran uh

single no children and so I uh I have

four times the expenses in the emergency fund I have don't have any debt great credit currently renting and so I'm not sure if like I'm in you know or like how vital step number four is uh because you know I have guaranteed taxfree income and until I die you know which adjusts for the inflation right now it's uh 3737

so $3,700 a month uh and of course um it

adjusted inflation like you know like 10 years ago or you know like 13 years ago was like 2700 So it's it's went up like a grand in 13 years do you know what the rate is yearly is it 4% like what how does It Go um that's the federal government they they make their decisions like uh supposedly it's going to go up like two and a half%

so that that'll be like another $100 just kind of follow the CPI inflation rates and all that I I guess I'm not really sure to be honest with you I just know it it does it it does make changes um and so

I'm thinking like possibly I'm in Step seven and so I'm like I'm really seeking advice and counsel for potential options and like paths to follow uh I'm considering buying a home and like if if I subtract my emergency fund then that leaves me like like 43,000 that I have in the bank I don't have any Investments everything is just savings okay but my ultimate goal is to live in

the Caribbean so I'm still looking at some islands I got my eye on some but like you know I'm not sure like maybe buy a property here start here then go there start here and then go there I'd probably start here and go there so you you've never been a homeowner before and so I'd probably want to learn that and get kind of your sea legs for lack of a better term under home ownership

before you go abroad but I love that I think home P purchase is a good thing for you uh we say all the time here that you know your rent it's it's the biggest line item on most people's budget and it's variable as long as you're a renter and so being able to kind of stabilize that that line item and have a mortgage and one day pay

it off in your situation is huge um I do have a question and I

mean you're welcome to say no I don't want to talk about that or whatever but if you're 100 you're 100% disabled um do

you feel that there's any work that you'd want to do and could do oh oh certainly so you know uh each person is is different it's kind of like a different situation than the Social Security Disability like with a a veteran it's it could be a variety of spectrums but yeah like you know I am limited I have situations that I'm dealing with however my My ultimate goal is to continue doing something like

I I I you know I'm with like with Dave like I think he would agree like I I don't plan to stop working until like I die and then you know me Jesus you know what I'm saying so I want to be doing something gainful with my time I think it's you know good for your mind and good for community and so I'm not sure what this going to look like

I looked at maybe like teaching English or even like I went and visited an island and they pitched me being a tour guide because you know I could speak to English English taus so I'm kind of like putting the excuse me The Feelers out there I'm just really in this situation like I don't know what to do as far as like financially and just want to see like what options

you guys might suggest to me and just so I can kind of like um have stuff to consider I don't want you to take your foot off the gas I would continue following the baby steps and that means investing 15% of your income you need to look into what you can do with that income if you need you know different earned income from working outside of your disability payments in order to invest in a Roth IRA for example

but I would put you in this baby steps 4 through six and you know baby steps seven is really hey I've got a paid for house I don't have payments in the world I'm not trying to save up for a house you've sort of already overcome that so that would put you in this kind of long-term journey of investing 15% probably saving up for a house as well you're maybe going to end up paying off that home

and that's only going to set you up for Success later on down the road when you want to buy something in the Caribbean and you're on a fixed income mhm and to George's point I like

continuing to work the baby steps and when you are ready to buy a house just remember your emergency fund isn't your down payment so right now you said you've got four months of expenses so you know for all intents and purposes that is your your emergency fund so if you're ready to if if you're wanting to buy a property you need to save up a separate down payment

because I don't want you depleting that in order to um make your home purchase yeah good yeah I'm on the same page I you know like Dave says um and you guys have said too like you know stuff will happen the hot water heater will go iing or or something so I'm definitely on board with that and like I like that I've been listening and you know

I didn't hear before about like doing um like he recommend not using the VA loan if you can do it because you know there's more fees and stuff and if you can put 20% down and do a 15-year mortgage I'm like wow that's a really good idea it's just a better loan product in general now there are some time you know you can wave the funding fee

because you have the 100% disability it's not that it's a bad product just what tends to happen is people who have no money they put zero down and they can end up underwater on their home or they buy too much home because they have zero equity in this thing so it's all mortgage and so that's the part that's worrisome but if you go to it and that's

the right product for you and you can talk to our friends at Church Hill mortgage and they'll walk you through here's the ab of a 15-year versus the VA loan and what makes sense for you but thank you for your service what a sacrifice I can't imagine what would necessitate 100% disability so a

lot of sacrifice thank you so much yeah George you're right you know and speaking of Churchill I was talking with them the other day and you know because of the FED lowering interest rates even though home interest rates aren't really being affected by that just yet a lot of people are still looking at refinancing and is it time and is it this and talking to the guys over at Church Hill they're like

the time is to make a plan so it's always good to call up Churchill and start talking with someone and say Here's here's where I'm at and here's what my goals are and they can help you walk through that process and figure out okay what does it make sense for you to do if your if your goal is to refinance if your goal is to buy a house it's like it's never too early to call them up make a plan to get prepared

because they're all about relationships they want to build a relationship with you they want to get to know you they want to get to know all the factors that are surrounding your home owning or home selling or whatever refinance even it's a year or three away that's right at least you know what to do in the meantime exactly and it gives you time to actually start working a plan towards that

so contact our friends at Churchill this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I can afford child care how do I how do I Outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills yeah in the middle of all that grief like it's just

it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reuping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money

if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place

the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years including of course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com

[Music]

all righty you're listening to the Ramsey Show we're here on the Ramsey Network I'm Jade warshaw next to me is bestselling Author George camel author of the book Breaking Free from broke if you haven't gotten a copy make sure you do because it's litty all right let's go to the phone lines we've got Jacqueline in Austin Texas what's going on Jacqueline hey thank y'all for taking my call you bet how can we help we are on baby step number two and

we're working to pay $15,000 in debt okay and we have 23,000

of that enrolled in a debt relief program okay and there's been a settlement reached with one of the creditors of course after they write rightfully so threatened to sue yeah and then the other one is still being negotiated so my question is with all the other debt that we have is it wise to try to get out from underneath this program I mean what made you go into it

to begin with it's kind of odd to me that you had 102,000 but you kind of chose this subset to turn over to them can you tell me more about what caused you to do that it was out of desperation in the

time for just because the interest rates were so high and I just wasn't I was not

very wise about the decision at all were they already late like were you already behind on them yes okay let me summarize

what happened and you tell me if it's correct so you reach out to the company and they tell you hey stop making payments on all of your debt Let It Go to collections let them sue you instead you make those payments to us and then we'll help settle with the creditors for a lower amount that's pretty much how it's happening I didn't know about the suing part it's that yeah

they tend to leave that part out in the pitch in the brochure hey we're going to implode your financial Life tank your credit have people coming after you to sue you but it's going to be awesome help and they don't actually help you learn how to manage your money uh so they're just middlemen that are unnecessary and for those reasons I would get out of this agreement

because I think you are way more in control than you think and I wouldn't let it to middleman to employe your financial life to help what's it going to take to get out of it and what have you paid to them so far um i' quite a bit they've already

made a settlement um

and I'm about 2500 in on those payments

I have about 1,500 in a savings account with them because that's you know you make the payments they put it in this account and then that's what they use to make payments back to the creditors and I can take that out I mean they said I can get out at any time I am just not aware of any hidden fees that they may

have because yeah that's what we need to find out any money at all I don't need to ask him about that but I'm hoping you can get out without much penalty and fee and move on and do this yourself using the de snowball method with gazelle intensity using the baby steps that's the way people actually get out of debt and so that's your homework your homework is to go

and figure out what's it going to take to get out of this you said you've paid 2500 in which on $23,000 of debt isn't much it sounds like you're still in the beginning process of of this um you said they made a settlement did they tell you how much the settlement was for is it for the lump sum or just individual an individual one in there um it's it's for

the lump sum but

it's it saved me maybe maybe $3,000 not

very much but then with all their fees I ended up not saving any money all but it makes you feel like well this still Sav me money and hassle but listen you can negotiate this stuff yourself if you've got debt and collections you can call them you can say hey I want to settle I have two grand will you settle on the six call it paid in full

and so if you do have debt in collections you can do this yourself the rest of the debts stay current and attack them with a Vengeance using the debt snowball method okay yep

that's what we're that's what we're working on all right I just didn't want to do any more of this with this yeah I wouldn't go down this road any further you turn thanks for the call yeah George we never recommend debt relief programs debt consolidation they're they're charging you to do what you can do for yourself well they Market to you like Ramsey would they're like we're going to give

you Financial Freedom and we're going to help you get out of debt except we know the solution is the person in the mirror right not some middleman who's going to take your payments while imploding your financial life that's what they do yeah don't make payments Let It Go to collections because then when it's in collections now we have the ability to settle yeah and trust me I do not care about a credit score

but I don't want you to tank your credit score that will hurt you financially to have a bad score that's right yeah we would never tell you to do that on purpose all right let's go to Ray and Columbus Ohio what's going on Ray

hi hey what's up um so my question is is how do I

begin to pay down this debt that I have

with the low income that I make okay so tell us what your debt is and tell us what your income is okay so total debt is about

$330,000 and monthly I bring home after

taxes 1,200 oh what are you doing for work I work at a gym and I'm only part-time currently and

basically speaking to my boss he told me he doesn't have the hours to allow me to work fulltime okay so why don't you go go ahead George now I'm just wondering what are you getting paid hourly yes what are you making hourly 16 so could you not find a job

that's full-time paying 16 or 17 or 18 or 20 or 25 unfortunately jobs are not really

high as you know I've put in tons and tons of applications for lots of places and this

we're heading into the biggest shopping season of the year you're telling me no retailers are hiring yeah I me you checked them all on

you checked them all every single one you went to every retailer in your city not well you're telling me there's no jobs you just said there's no jobs looking you're looking okay I'm currently looking for another job right

now as far as the applications I put in I'm not heing I just think Ray is worth more than 1,200 bucks a month would you agree I agree yes what is this what is

the most you have made tell us when you

were doing if you had a moment where you're like yeah I was doing well job yeah my previous job actually I ended up getting laid off because they just were having major budg budget cut issues and I was making about 50k that when I was working okay so what is your skill set

here I'm sorry what what's the skill set

what's your background it was manufacturing it was at a a factory do

you have education in that field or did you just kind of fall into it I just fell into the job and started working there okay is it just you or do you have a family is there a spouse anything like that um I do I do have a son okay and

then I my boyfriend and I do live together so you know what does Child Care look like um child care I do get like

assistance for that but I do pay a little bit um monthly for that how much do you pay monthly can I ask only 108

okay so you've got that we wanted to know that because we want to know are you freed up to be able to work full-time and it sounds like you are okay at this point you got to just get like pound that pavement that's the only the only solution to this is income I wish that there was a magic button but there's just not in your situation income is your only thing that's going to break

you free luckily 30,000 you know you can tackle that but you got to be making it let's get back to the 50,000 let's let that be kind of a goal point for us but the reason that George and I were were really pressing you on the income is cuz we know like like you can go to Walmart you can go to Wendy's you can like there's places that are paying 18 an hour

and it's not um there

there there places that aren't hard to break through and so I think at this point you've got to raise your really

raise what you're calling a lot I've applied to a lot of places if in your mind a lot was eight well now a lot is going to be 30 right and you're going to talk to people that you know and say hey I'm looking for a job are they hiring anybody where you're working do you know of anywhere that's hiring so before you get off the line we're going to give

you Ken's book proximity principle because we want you to be um having the tools to really get out there we're going to give you the find the work you're wired to do get clear career assessment so you can figure out what you want to do going forward because I think you're at a Crossroads yeah yeah and I think you're really how old are you I do 23 yeah have

you

decided I'm not going to borrow any more money because it sounds like right now you're going into debt just to exist just to survive well so the debt is it's

like 177,000 from a car accident two of them are credit cards but they're within 800 you know each so one is 500 and then one is 800 and then more debt it was

like 8,500 was from a car that I had to repossessed after I lost my job yeah and then 3,200 in student RS that I had from the past exactly so I think the lesson learned is no more debt it works out as long as life's working out and then life hits you and you go oh boy this isn't fun yeah and the problem is being in this situation has

the ability to really impede the decisions that you make um and I don't want that for you so keep keep hitting the pavement you will find a job it's just a matter of time we believe in you we believe you've got it stay in touch with us and see see if there's anything we can do to help this is the ramsy show

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[Music] today from the Ramsey Network it's the Ramsey Show I'm your host Jade warshaw your other host for the day's next to me George camel we'll be taking calls about your life and your money you can get your call up on the line by calling 888 8255 225 we'll screen you and try to get

you in uh but yeah as long as we're calling to talk about your life and your money you can even throw in a career question you know we'll help you out with that Ken's usually the career guy but you know he talks to US during our lunch break and so we have some information absorbed a lot of wisdom from our friend Ken his desk is right next to mine all right let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Emma and Colorado Springs Colorado what's going on Emma hi Emma I'm sorry right thank you

so much for taking my call um so my question has to do with um my dad

wanting my husband and I to take a

$60,000 loan that's a parent plus loan he took when I went to college okay and

at at the time um I I never made a plan

with him to pay it back he never said you know at this date you're G to become

responsible for this or anything like that um I've been married 3 years now

and we have wanted to help my dad um

because obviously it was a helped me a lot um but I'm really really regretting

that now um and I think like he never

said anything when we got married or anything like that and I think he's just um he's had a lot of conflicts with my husband and it's the way I see it it's

like he's just frustrated with us and um

oh so you think this is first fight I do yes how much can you tell us

about the the context of this resentment was it because of financial choices no or is he using this as

leverage I believe he's using it as leverage um I I think if if I were to

say like oh yeah sorry my husband is

this this and this just like you say then maybe he would be like okay just because for the past 12 years he's been paying on this loan and has not ever mentioned it so what does he not like about husband where's the beef oh my so I think in retrospect so

in the past I was really close with my dad and now I'm just processing all of these things that happened I wonder if he what has been maybe kind of a messed with me like in high school he would tell me a lot of details about his own financial situation that I don't even know if he told my mom about um when he

got the loan when he got the Parent PLUS Loan he told me to not tell my older

siblings about it um okay and I'm the

youngest of I'm the youngest of six kids um so what does this have to do with your husband yeah you you mentioned you made it seem like it was kind of a yes yeah so he thinks that um that he's been

a very bad influence on me and I think that has to do with does that mean how old are you Emma did you get your ears pierced what did you do did you get a tattoo what happened it's it's been so ridiculous like so you're still daddy's little girl and he's like I don't like what this guy's done to my daughter and I don't agree with it

I don't like he votes wrong it's everything and I I think I think he's never let me go I think he doesn't like that I've I've become a bit more assertive which I feel like my husband has helped me really grow I mean you're married girl you you let Mar you're married have you had a hard conversation with your dad yet to say Dad I love you I'll always be your little girl

but I'm also a grown woman and I'm married to this guy and we're doing our own thing and it feels like

you're using this and dangling it over our head to go all right you little grown-ups here's your $60,000 loan back is that a good summary I feel like that's a very good summary unfortunately um and you're the youngest of six did you say that yes

okay papa is struggling I that's what it

sounds like it sounds like he is trying to hold on to a last little thread of

what life was at least that's the way it sounds is he doing okay financially because it sounds like he doesn't have the ability to even pay back this loan otherwise he would have done it so that's why it's so complicated I I have wanted to help with the loan never take it on myself but I've wanted to help because honestly he's made some poor decisions um he's a teacher he I so he told me like recently

that when my sister and I were in school he deferred some of his own debt to keep us in private school and to pay for music lessons and stuff like that so I feel like he has in his mind he's done

the very best he can which I'm sure he did in many ways but I think you're reading too much into it I got to cut you I think I think you have to look at this pragmatically and look at it for what it is otherwise you're going to keep circling a drain because the truth is yes our parents do sacrifice for us and they they're supposed to

and they do you know cut things off for them so they can do it for you like that they're supposed to do that and when they do it we're grateful and I don't think any you don't have to replay that to prove that you're grateful to him cuz we know that you are but if we look at this like let's just pretend that George and I are kind of

the judge here I think Parent Plus Loans are really tough because here's here's what here's what we're really deciding between the money was used for you and it was for your education you got your education and then you kind of did you ask for the loan I don't know did you no I remember

he really he really wanted me to go to this college and I did want to go but I remember saying like are you sure this is a lot of money but if you if you didn't pay for it what would have happened you just wouldn't have gone or what was the I would have gone to a different school for much cheaper or little to nothing and you would have paid for it in cash or there still would have been a smaller loan so no actually this is the kicker

he actually teaches out of college and I could have gone there for free but he wanted to go okay I know it's so bad sad what you isn't that like the one reason to work at the college your kids can go for free oh my goodness he really he really wanted me to go to this Christian private college okay so now now now we have but now

we have the facts because I I don't want to run out of time the fact is he took out this loan he wanted you to go to this school you were willing to go someplace for free and let's add the legality to it the loan is in his name

so if you came in front of Judge Jade you no legal or moral obligation to pay this back but if it's going to weigh on you and you have the financial means then help pay it down it's that simple and have the conversation you didn't have the conversation before so the next best thing you can do is have one now you go all right here can we come up with a game plan

I don't want this to hurt our relationship I know you disagree with my husband neither here nor there let's make a plan to get rid of this debt and if I were you I'd try to settle for half and half I'd be like let's go havies on this you played a part in it I took it I took the gift I took the loan so I played a part in

it as well and so that's what I would do and I if you do make this try

to I say this but this is family stuff and I hate I hate business between family but try to get it in some sort of writing of hey this is what we both agree let's sign it and so that we can always say hey we said this here's what we said I'll pay 30 you'll pay 30 what's the balance now is it still 60 so it's

60 I'm guessing it was closer to 72 when

he first took okay well let's talk about it at this point point and say it's 60 now you pay 30 I'll pay 30 and no hard

feelings and from now on none of us coign for each other and you know maybe you write him a letter and say all the wonderful things that you were going to say on the air about how he sacrificed and you know that's that on that but if if the wedge has already been driven then this debt is not going to change much of that it sounds like he's got other beef

and this is just one part of the puzzle which I'm so sorry that's not a fun thing to deal with and money getting involved just makes it 10 times worse it does yeah Parent Plus Loans are a big big big don't do if you're listening and you ever take a Parent PLUS Loan just know I'm mad at you and a puppy stop wagging its tail oh yeah it's a problem don't do

it this is the ramsy [Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

are listening to the Ramsey Show thanks for hanging out with us I'm Jade warshaw next to me is George camel we're the ones taking your calls we'll give you our best advice some say the advice is worth what you pay for it all right let's go to Sophia in Washington DC

what's up Sophia hi there um so I'm kind of dealing with this situation where I got divorced three years ago I was able to buy my ex-husband out of the house I'm looking at getting remarried now and my boyfriend is asking to be put on the deed to the house right now or after you

get married after we get married and you don't want

to I've had to make a lot of sacrifices

to be in the financial situation I'm in and I just

don't feel like he makes those same sacrifices and he's just walking into a

house and hold up then why do you want to marry this guy it you already have resentment toward him I don't he just really enjoys boating and I enjoy having a roof over my head girl uhuh there's something there's animosity there you don't think this is going to play out in a marriage because it's only going to get worse from here on out because it's going to be well

this is my money that I earned and so I'm going to spend it here and we're going to split the rent at that point just get a roommate I don't want you to get married if you're going to enter into the situation where you're resentful so you perspective I come from it is that

once we're married we'll put everything into a bank account together and we can save up for our own house the problem is I have a child from my first marriage okay and I want the house to go to her

if anything were to ever happen to me okay but that's not the way marriage

works necessarily um so let's let's pull back

because you came you came in hot into the conversation to the point to where George and I were like wow this woman has some beef towards him so let's kind of back out for a second because you're marrying a guy right that if to me if

you're marrying somebody this is the person you ultimately trust that you want to build wealth that you want to build wealth with and you trust your children with them so what I just heard you say sounded as though um and how old is your child by the way three years old three years old so what you just said sounded as though if something were to happen to

you God forbid you want the house to go to her but wouldn't the house go to your spouse who was taking care of your daughter what's wrong with that her father would technically get a

custody of her so she wouldn't have any

of that so then the father's going to move into the house that your husband's in to take care of her no the way I have it set now is that

the the house is in a in a guardianship

so my parents are the uh EX uter on that

and would be able to rent the house out until she's 18 and then sell it do you have life insurance I do okay you got term life in place 10 to 12 times your income yes okay that could be the

solution to a lot of this CU you can make her the beneficiary and she'll have the money it can be in a trust it you'll have a you know the the guardian of it but I I feel like the this is like a leverage piece and you've got a lot of hurt from the past which is very understandable but I think bringing that into this new marriage is going to just put a wall up instantly that says I'm not going to let

you totally in but I want 100% from you and I felt the wall when you just said it I felt like oh wow this lady's got she's really protecting herself is what it feels like you're trying to do and really almost Walling off your daughter as well and it just

for George and I I mean we've just been talking to you just for a couple minutes and it feels like oh okay so I like what

George said about the the insurance and if I'm the spouse like let's George and I sit in in your boyfriend's situation for a minute if I come into this I'm like wait a minute I'm living with you but I don't have any rights you know like I want to go on the mortgage together and of course it makes sense if something were to happen to you that

you know yeah is his name going to be on the mortgage no his name would not be on the mortgage why not I gu guess that would require us refinancing and it's at a low interest rate okay but he and let me put it in his shoes he's going okay I'm helping her build equity to a home that I have no real involvement in MH and that's going to go to

the daughter which I'll have no real involvement in if something were to happen you did mention that you were interested in saving up money together to buy your own place what would happen if when you got married you said okay I've got the life insurance for my daughter she's covered and

essentially if you guys were to get married your your spouse would have life insurance too so if something happened to him you'd be covered so like everybody's going to be covered here and then if you guys said okay this current house we're going to sell it and buy something together what's wrong with that or you just add him to

it yeah I I just I guess I wanted him to

understand what it's like to be a homeowner and sacrifice with me to build something completely from scratch together okay I think we can address that without using this as a leverage piece with the deed I I think you need to address this with them and say listen I want to spend my life with you but I have some real concerns about the way you handle money and I want to raise

this child I want to build wealth together and it sounds like you want to just go have fun and boat in your spare

time and I need someone who has more skin in the game I think if we address the underlying issues then the deed is is whatever Adam to it don't you know do

you think you you could have that hard conversation with him I I think I can would he be shocked

to know that you don't like his free spirit childlike attitude toward

money he would not okay this has come up

before it has I would also use that gut

check to say should this relationship move forward until we address this because if we don't align on this I don't think you should move forward I wouldn't move in together be fair he has been addressing it he recently sold his votes St paying marina fees so there are steps in the right direction so he's boatless now why we want he's boatless now that sounds like the ultimate sacrifice yes

and I do appreciate it quite a bit okay so it sounds like he is wanting to make strides and again if you're going to go into this I would be Allin I think it's the only way I know you have have passed hurt and once you're going you've gone through divorce in the back of your mind you're always thinking I need an escape hatch with the wha IFS

but I think if this is going to work it's got to be we're all in on this and that means we're going to combine bank accounts combine incomes combine everything combine houses Deeds mortgages it's all us and that that's what creates a teamwork y okay okay thanks for the call

to have a reality check yeah we want the best for you um you know we're not trying to accuse you or poke holes in your plan but we we really want the best for you and when you call and we hear that in your voice or we hear that that fear or that hurt we definitely want to address it because it's more than money right it's in in

this case it definitely is is more than just money there's a lot of emotion there there's to your point George a lot of previous baggage there and that's normal well and she's got you know the mama bear wants to protect that baby at three-year-old and I totally get that and so there's there's a lot at play here and there may be some healing to do and I just don't want that to be projected onto

this guy and right hurt the relationship in the long term and the truth is you know if you're dealing with a three-year-old if if we're really thinking about this okay you got three-year-old you want to make sure they're set up life insurance really is the best way um because think about it a lot of times if somebody does pass away and their left property the first thing

they do is sell it anyway right because they want to get their hands on Cold Hard Cash so that's really what people want is that cash so 10 to 12 times your income is going to be plenty to make sure your final wishes are taken care of and then that they're taking care of it's for anybody who who relies on your income basically is what you're covering

and the idea there is that you take that lump sum from the life insurance and you invest it and the returns off of that could replace your income that's right that's why we say 10 to 12 times we've seen the average return in the stock market over a long period of time 10 to 12% so if you want to get term life in place connect with our friends at Xander that's where

I have mine through for my wife and I same with Jade and just run

away from anyone selling you whole life term life is a fraction of the cost you're going to get great coverage and you only need it for that 15 or 20 or 25 years because you're going to become self-insured if you follow the ramay plan you're going to get the house paid off you're going to build up sizable investments in that nest egg and your family's going to be okay

and if you're a stay-at-home parent we still recommend getting you know at least a half million dollar policy exactly because you have something again there's people that are relying on you but what we don't do is take out policies on children so hopefully that gives you a little bit of insight this is the Ramy show

[Music]

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Ramsey this is the ramsy show all right

the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by y refi hey we've all made money mistakes and so if you have defaulted on private student loans trust me I know all about that we're not judging you but we are saying that you can do something about it uh so you need to contact y refi okay y refi was created for people in your exact situation so go to Y rei.com

Ramsey again that's

yy.com Ramsey and remember it may not be

available in all states today's question comes from Shelby in Oklahoma my husband and I are in our early 20s and just got to baby step 4 our income is just North of $250,000 with the help of overtime and side hustles but living below our means is actually how we've gotten to where we are I'm facing a lot of emotional conflict over family and friends hating on us for doing

the hard work of the baby steps and for our high income amount we don't have anyone cheering us on except the ramsy community and it feels very lonely at times knowing that we're still very early in our careers and knowing we will only increase in our wealth will the jealousy and nayang only get worse we really just need some encouragement wow uh will it get worse probably

because they're going to they're going to make fun of you for doing the plan then they're going to be jealous envious and judgmental when you do well yeah they're sipping on that there's no winning with these people yeah so here's an easy life hack stop caring what other people think if they don't pay your bills they don't get a vote that's my policy I agree yeah they're they're on that hater aid but you know what George it is it is painful because you you want

your family to be like yeah way to go you want them to notice that you've done something good right you want them to slap you a high five or say good job or just some sort of acknowledgement so I do think it's tough when you don't get that when you've done something pretty amazing uh like payoff debt and when you've done something amazing like you know Garner a higher income that that's that's a number one I think they're

secretly envious of their amazing income in their earlys I mean how many people in the earlys are making 250 Grand not many there's one piece and then the other piece is they're doing a hard thing and transforming their life and that holds up to mirror a mirror to how out of shape I am financially that's right and therefore I don't like it yeah and so I think there's there's a both end

there and it's only going to get worse as they become debt-free as they make more money and build wealth cuz then it's going to be wow look at the house they have they're must be doing pretty and they we did so much for them You' think they would there's always going to be something with unhealthy people you're always going to have some of this unhealthy toxic conversation

so the best thing you can do is shut it down ignore it don't talk about it and again you said we we have no one except the ramsy community listen there's hundreds of thousands of people in the Ramsey Baby Steps Community Facebook group alone yeah that are excited for you when you tell them weird things like we just paid off our house that's right so there's always a place for

you to go it's a safe place and so go join that group go join a financial Peace University class all of that get people around you who want to see you win and uh it's going to be a much more fun Journey yeah hold your head high tell them get that dirt off their shoulders okay George um you know something that I

noticed with these calls lately and it's worth talking about because you know we're going into the into this third hour here money we talk so much about

money in the health of our money the peace that we need to experience with our money getting debt free and we talk

about that so much because we know that money is entwined in everything right it's wrapped up in everything that we do there's a motivating factor Underneath It All and when you're in debt it does

skew your motives sometimes without you even realizing it you think about it you're in debt you take a job that maybe you don't like but it pays more but the motive is I need that money because I want to pay off this debt um or you sign

a parent plus loan because you think maybe this will give me a connection to somebody and I'll be able to kind of help them make a decision I can have a say in what's going on so there's a motivating factor underneath that or I don't know one of the callers you bought a house and you bought it in a hard time and you sacrificed everything to get it so now that you're getting married to a guy he didn't have to do that sacrific weaponized now you've so there's always this like motivation underneath money

and so ultimately we know that it's important to have a healthy relationship when your debt is cleared it clears a lot of that motive out and when you have a healthy relationship with how you view Money it clears a lot of that out and so just a

reminder that it's not just paper with

dead president's faces on it there's a lot of emotion and relational Equity tied up in that that's one of the reasons we tell people never ever under any circumstances lend someone money right cuz that adds if you want to gift it to them as a one-time thing that's fine but if you lend people money it always ends up hurting the relationship you become the banker that's right

and they become the person who owes you money which makes it real awkward every time they interact with you and you see them go on vacation and you go wait they owe me money MH no matter how much you love them so don't intertwine money before you're married don't sign on the parent plus loan for your kids don't take out the debt consolidation loan for your boyfriend

and if you think these are things I'm making up these are all calls we've taken in the last 60 minutes yeah and then there's the part of it George where let's have conversation like let's normalize talking about each other's views on money because if you're going to enter into a relationship with somebody but you're not talking about the elephant in the room which is the fact that

we both have money he makes more than I do or I make more than he does I spend it like this he saves it like if you're not talking about that you can hear when people call in and there's like kind of that animosity or there's a little bit of resentment because they're not talking about it and so if you're dating someone if you're engaged to someone

if you're married it's never too late to say okay let's let's have a real convers ation here because here here are my views on money or maybe I actually like to start with the other person's views on money tell me your views on money what is what's your philosophy what do you think about debt you know is it something that you did one time and you you made

the mistake and you never want to do it again or is it something that you did one time and you feel like it's a great thing to leverage like have those conversations because it's going to pop up again it's like a zombie it never really goes away and so you want to know what this person views are before you get too down the line with them and

before it feels too late to make a change yeah and if those are that person's principles and values and they're not going to change that's fine it we at least we know now we know but now we know not to move forward with relationship or we have to go to counseling to find out how we're going to overcome this in a marriage yeah because how many times have

we taken the call where one one person in the relationship kind of has their money together or they're working on it and then the or they feel like they're doing so much better than the other person yeah they feel like they're doing so much better and in their mind they're kind of the caretaker they've taken in the person who wasn't making as much the person who didn't have as much debt or has more debt not

you know not having the better financial situation and so underlying the whole time they're thinking like are they just taking advantage of me are they just living here because I'm giving them a they're mooching are they mooching so this is these are many of the ways that money just filters in and if we don't talk about it it kind of just festers and grows in our mind

so have these conversations with your spouse have these conversations with your boyfriend if you've been dating for a while certainly have them uh with your fiance

and make it part of marriage counseling like before you get married yeah well that's why I encourage people take Financial Peace University as a part of premarital counseling because it'll start these conversations de it is a big deal okay um do we have time to take another call I don't want to is it risky no it's risky let's just we're not rolling dice one thing I do want to add to that J a lot of people think well

I don't want to marry someone with debt or I don't want to date someone with debt and here's the deal we never discourage someone from marrying or being in a relationship with someone with debt but you do have to figure out are they wanting to stay there if they're with gazelle intensity trying to get out yeah and a lot of people go well Jade I work so hard to stay debt free or become debt free

and now they're coming into the relationship with $100,000 in student loans and if

you treat them like this project or like hey that's your debt you need to figure that out feel that don't get married don't get married yet you're taking on all of them all the good all the bad and the bad might be part of their debt but guess what if you look at it as this is a season hey I know I saved up all this money for a house

but now it's going to go toward my spouse's debt and then there's other part of it where it's almost like we want them to have the same Penance that we had and it's like I had to walk through this I had to sacrifice you should have to too and I'm like listen if you're getting married and you have the money to bless your spouse in the way of saying hey we're getting married I've saved up $40,000

and there's $40,000 of debt once we get into this marriage that's a blessing and to make it seem like you have to you have to go through what I went through that that's another sign of you're not ready basically just get healthy before you get in a relationship that's all we're asking and if you don't want to marry them if they're in debt then don't marry them that's also your choice too it's a free country it's a free country

this is the ramsy show

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he

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[Applause] [Music]

this is the ramsy show I'm Jade warshaw next to me is George camel hey guys I know we've been talking about this but I really want you to be on this live like no one else Cruise so we're going to keep talking about it it's March 22nd through the 29th 2025 and you already know most of the cabins are gone but we want it sold out and again this is not your average cruise this is a premere

Caribbean cruise Caribbean or Caribbean I'm a Caribbean kind of guy all right that's right Caribbean Queen that's it

okay so we're going to Turks and Kos Puerto Rico St Thomas Bahamas and again

this is a top-of-the-line Cru I can tell you I've been in the cruise business for a long time that's what I did before I came here Holland America it's pretty

top draw okay this is a nice Cruise holl in America it's the new ston d uh it meets the standard for for the ramsy guest okay let's let's just put it like that we we're not going to have anything shabby this is very nice it's all inclusive Foods included even room service okay so you can get your hot dog on at 3 a.m. in the morning and no one's going to stop you get your hamburger like a lot of poor decisions happen on cruise ships at 3:00 a.m.

well I'm good now we got power yesterday F 12 days and stuff oh my

goodness was this from Helen yes wow it looks like somebody up

in the can what is it called Poli stick

or something like that and just dumped it oh my my neighborhood and three

neighborhoods down we are probably like one mile directly from the Masters and

where people Park their cars I don't know if you ever been there on outskirts of it there probably 50 pound trees down there we're slowly getting power over in that area and stuff but over here people have like four and five pine trees on top of the house there's no way no way they can rebuild the house and and stuff what about you probably tear it apart uh actually

we had the last storm was 10 years ago and we used to get them every 10 years it was an ice storm iner yeah and it broke down a lot of Limbs and all that stuff so what we decided to do then was go ahead and get rid of all the trees in our yard so that saved you yes so how can we help

today how can you what how can we help today okay one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was this happens to a lot of neighbors and stuff when their neighbors trees fall on their property and stuff and then the neighbors responsible to remove their neighbors's tree and stuff but I don't know who passed that law and stuff I just don't get it so did did a neighbor's tree fall

on your house it's called no if a if a

neighbor's tree falls in new yard which which it did it did during I storm it cost us $4,600 to remove it okay and it

was their tree and stuff they F in our yard so that's what a lot of people are dealing with right now and some people don't have the money and stuff and the neighbors are just sitting back and say hey you got what are you dealing with markk what's your financial question okay my financial question was I we just got our house paying all that stuff we had storm windows on

the front of the house and stuff uh After the Storm no power and all that stuff we couldn't open on because the FES were SK drives crazy okay so I've got I've got one company and I'm about going to say their name and all stuff and they're well known and they said they will come out they're going to have to measure them they'll be homemade and all stuff

and it will take us four months before we can get them but they won me to give them 50% UPF front and I said I'm not going to do that I said I'll give you 10 maybe 15 I said I can even get you a letter from the bank saying I'm good for the whole loan but that's money that I'll be losing if I have it in

the savings account or something like that how much money do you have in savings do you have the full

69,000 okay I got 4K well retire for Kim Clark and all I

mean I'm good to go let me pull let me pull back so you're trying to get storm windows or you're trying to get a different type of window replace all the windows and they'll have Windows and how much is that going to cost total I actually ran across a guy I called the business and just I got a haircut I walked in next door to grab a beer

and the guy was sitting right there and he said $8,700 okay well I don't know that I would go with a guy who was just sitting there getting his haircut drinking a beer I would get multiple bids from reputable companies that you search my haircut oh but still he's the first guy you saw and he mentioned it here's the thing you've just come off of something traumatic scary what just has gone on where

you live oh that believe and then you've got the 12 days with no power and you're thinking to myself I want to just like you did with the ice storm you're like I'm doing everything I can to make sure if this happens again I'm in a better situation so you cleared out the trees and now you're going through that same motion again and you're going next time

this happens I'm going to be a better situation I'm going to get storm windows storm drains everything and I'm not mad at you for doing that and it might be a good idea based on where you live however I don't want you going with the first Yahoo off the street that says I'll do it for you 8700 I want you to take your time no no no it's not that it's

this is a place that's well known my neighbor across the street and all his friends have highly recommended this compy but I still want you to get I still want you to get a couple of estimates right that's just you doing your due diligence and saying there might be another well-known company that'll do it a little bit cheaper maybe they'll do it a little bit faster but at least

you can compare right and that's just being a good consumer at that point oh yeah you you get your and you look at what type of materials and all that stuff that stuff and then when you do it only pay cash do not borrow money for this okay I kind of end with this J you

were talking about this I've been listen to you for 40 45 minutes I'm sorry guys

I'm so tired that's okay but 45 minutes and the women were talking about that were trying to uh protect their Investments well they're they're right right guys are nothing but dogs I'm telling you so they'll go wherever they got to do and stuff but then they finally realize at the end I need to settle down somewhere wait a minute you went off you went off on a tangent we're supposed to be talking about storm storm windows

I know but I'm just telling this got some beef with these guys out there guys will they will take advantage of women well not a good guy hey we hope that everything works out with you in the storm and I do think if you live in a in a in an area that's prone to

natural disasters you need to make sure that you have the right things in place to keep you covered and of course for a lot of people it's impact Windows it might have be having the hurricane graded roof right obviously having the right insurance is in place and we know that insurance has gotten very expensive because of the storms that are happening and so just do your due diligence

there the other pieces don't let companies use this to sort of fearmonger and get you in your time Where You're vulnerable to say you need all these things to protect your family and it's going to cost $30,000 and here's the loan right A lot of people will fall prey to some of that as well because they're they're so and so you got to do things from a calm perspective

the person with the most patience information and options wins and that's what we're talking about here do your research with a calm head pay cash save up have an emergency fund in place don't owe people money and that's going to put you in the best position for no matter what life throws at you and no matter what it is that you're trying to get done don't go with

the first company that whose card you get you run into them at Home Depot or you know you metam at chilies I don't know whatever it is at least get a couple of different estimates because the truth is you might find a better one yeah I don't take business pictures in Chili's yeah that's my that's my rule it's my thing no no no well Jade this uh hour is about to end

so if you're listening on YouTuber podcast you got to jump over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show uh so go get it if you're on radio

the show will continue but if you're on YouTube or podcast jump over to the Ramsey Network app you can go download it in the App Store for free or click the link in the show notes and don't miss out what's coming up in the third hour cuz I see some good calls on the board that you don't want to miss out on I was approved for a home loan should I get a home in baby step 2 we'll talk

about that is it better to pay off my mortgage or invest the extra into retirement I don't know that's a cliffhanger you'll have to pop into the app to see what's next this is the ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird over there guys what do we do

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## 222. The Ramsey Show (Replay for March 29, 2024)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0duRCl9GQNw) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:19:24 |

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[Applause] [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw this hour the number to call is 8825 5225 don't be scared you jump in

we'll talk about your life and your money that's all we want to do is help you take the right Next Step and maybe talk you off the ledge if you're about to do something stupid that's always a fun call the preventative medicine versus the emergency surgery all right let's kick it off with Maria in Denver Colorado what's going on Maria hi thanks for taking my call um so

I purchased a home from a methodic and

I'm now $33,000 in debt because I had to do remed ation on the home um after I

closed and I just curious how I should

best pay this off and Salvage my credit I did receive a settlement from the owner um after discovering this problem

but um I still have probably 80k and repairs to make to the home and so I'm just curious how I can pay it down and Salvage my credit so how much total debt do you have outside of a mortgage um the 33,000 I don't have any other debt outside of my mortgage how many cards is that across across three cards how much uh how much money are you bringing in every month I'm bringing in about um 4 thou no

probably 5,500 5500 and then what

portion of that is your mortgage

payment 2,800 ypes all right we got got troubles

we got troubles so tell me a little bit more about this did you call it a

remediation yeah so um they had to rip

out the kitchen all the doors all the lighting anything porous anything wood

so I basically bought the home and then they stripped it um I found out two days after closing that did none of this come up in the inspection Dr problem that's my question no yeah none of it came up in the inspection so it come

up I received a police report that I had

requested um two days after closing I had received every other police report and they had some police activity at this property because I did my due diligence and I looked through it uhuh um but I didn't receive the one report that had the previous owner handing over the meth to the police at her home saying she had a problem um until two days after closing I don't know what happened to that one report that held it up but every other report was about a dog or about um so she was cooking meth

in the house no no not cooking just doing this

even at that level you still have to remediate oh my goodness and you said there's still $80,000 of repairs is this related to that or this is just other repairs that you were planning on doing related they stripped the home um

after I purchased it and so I couldn't really go back and

take I I couldn't like undo the loan

essentially I sued her and I got um thankfully I got about 60 Grand back but still there yeah what happened to that 60k so

I have that and that's my my question is how do I pay down like do I pay it all in one lump sum because I'm just worried that if I pay off my debt in one lump sum it's gonna crash my credit more I would not be concerned with your credit right now you got bigger problems and bigger fish to Cy I would knock out all the credit card debt today

the rest becomes your emergency fund and then we cash flow the rest of the repairs okay and so just make the rest of the pairs as on cash as you're able

to on cash yeah okay but leave three to six months of expenses in there for actual emergencies which is not known

repairs okay because we want to avoid you going further into that I don't know why you're concerned about the credit at this point you're not going to go take out more debt are you no no but it just I and you've got listen you've got a you've got a home you're going to make a mortgage payment every single month you're going to be you're going to be just fine

the credit score will settle itself yeah and you're not planning on taking out more credit so no okay you're right you're right that's the only point of having a good credit score is so you can access more debt yeah well I do want to I was planning to start like buying other

homes and you know no no no no we're we're done buying homes right now we need to focus on our s today and we can become real estate Moguls down the line when you have a paid for property and money in the bank to to pay cash well here's the thing Maria we're not and and hear us when we say we're not the point of we're not intentionally trying to tank your credit however George

and I both know that when when you set down the path of paying off debt you're also simultaneously saying not not only am I paying off this debt but I'm not going to borrow money in the future otherwise what's the point of paying off debt just so you can get more and pay it off again that doesn't really make sense so there's kind of this assumption that

if you're paying off your debt if you're working this hard to do that if you're taking this lump sum and you're being diligent in that way you kind of have to think about the future and go okay well if I've done all this work then in the future I'm going to pay cash the same way you're going to pay cash for these other remediations that have to take place in

the same way you know in the future if you do choose to buy real estate you'll save up and pay cash for it even though that sounds like a mountain load of cash it's just good to

kind of draw that Line in the Sand

okay well great then that makes my solution easy just pay it down and yeah work with their remaining cash well I'm equally worried Maria about this mortgage it is 51% of your take-home pay oh yeah well I had two roommates okay so

I'm not it all myself no but are go

ahead George well I'm just there's there's a lot going on here now with the roommate situation yeah are chipping in yeah I want to know can we have some clarity so you own the house are they chipping in at all for any of the repairs tell us you're the landlord so it's on you oh I guess leg true but are you increasing the rent to help cover some of this or what's the deal there no

rent is staying the same with them um

they are helping with repairs like by you know helping come in and actually do the repairs so their time they're paying me with their time right um and that's fine so that's been helpful um and then

also my mortgage lender offered two years refinancing so hopefully if all

goes well you know not predicting the future but if all goes well I'll be able to refinance the rates Dro they're saying we were not going to charge you to refinance exactly interesting the

only thing that makes me worried about this situation is when people own homes

but they can't afford their rent on their own so they have roommates I always like a situation where you can you can float the rent on your own and you can do the mortgage on your own you don't need the roommates for it to you know in order for it to not be dangerous for you and I don't like the fact that this would be dangerous for you if something happened with the roommates that's that's my only red flag on this well I can definitely float the rent myself the so what I told you the

mortgage I guess I should clarify that also includes utilities Insurance all of

the things bundled I have no car debt I have no other debt um my monthly

expenses include phone my cell phone and

that's more or less that outside of food so I can definitely Flo the rent on my own well I'd focus on just knocking out this credit card debt today cut up the cards Don't Look Back use the rest of the emergency fund and cash flow the rest of these repairs do not go into debt ever again and I'm sorry you're going through this crazy goodness gracious these inspectors should I just go become an inspector and be like looks good guys I don't understand how that was missed wow all right this is the

ramsy show

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw the number to call is 8825 5225 well it's time for our long running segment Jade and by long running you mean this is the third time third time okay long for me you know so it's called

pick aide and this is where we have two people on the line and we have to help them kind of settle a debate and you and I at the end of it have to pick a side after we hear them out and hear their case I enjoy this thoroughly I pitch judge George for the name of the segment they didn't like that judge George and I I wanted a little gavl oh well it's a little baby gavl then I'm gonna pitch judge Jade oh dang that's so much cooler

all right I give up here we go let's see

what Jennifer and Joe have to say in Denver Colorado what's going on guys hi

yeah I'm ready to buy a new car and my husband thinks I'm fine with the one that I have wow all right Joe what do you have to say for yourself well I do agree that she needs a new car um she just wants to spend way

too much on a new car want

spend 50,000 W that's a lot of money and

that's the most you guys have ever spent on anything outside of a house I'm guessing yes uh yes okay where are you guys at financially we're on baby step seven paid for house no debt love it and what's your net worth it would be what our house is worth yeah 600,000 plus retirement

700 so not quite a million no okay no

all right and what's the household income 150 approxim year we did

15050 and how much cash do you guys have in the bank we have our emergency fund right now of of 10,000 and I got 10,000 in my

business account so 10,000 and 10,000 if you were to buy this car a is it were

you thinking of getting something brand spanking new and two how are you going to pay for it what's I would want to save up for it okay and I don't necessarily want something new um it's just what I want just came out so I want

to wait a couple of years um until I can

buy one a couple years old what kind of car is it can can you tell us it's the Toyota Grand Highlander Highlander where's John deloney when we need him that's what he ended up getting I need like a picture of a Highlander I I don't really know what that is I'm going to Google it they're beautiful really great cars okay so what is the car you're currently driving I have a 2007 Acura

MDX and it's getting close to 200,000

mil on it oh she's just getting started that's a nice that's a nice MX is Invincible okay love that and what is he driving I'm curious I have a 2004 GMC pickup truck

and then we also have a 2020 Transit

Connect van I'm self-employed and so I use that van for work cool okay might be

time for both of you to upgrade baby step seven living like no one else I'm guessing you guys have a sizable margin in your budget now to save up how much could you throw every single month just to kind of a side savings account oh I think we could have it saved in six months wow yes yeah that's

pretty impressive pretty simple so yeah I mean we could save five six, a month our expenses okay so um tell us Joe why

tell us what you would do if it were your choice obviously we know Jennifer wants this $50,000 Toyota Highlander like L used in your book what's something a little bit more reasonable 30 35,000 maybe not the grand Highlander

but the regular Highlander that's what I'm looking at this one I'm looking at is like 30,000 2023 Highlander Le is

that not the one no I want the grand

High you want the big boy they just came

out in 2024 okay got Joe I'm curious

where where did you get that 35 number from just your heart oh yeah just my

heart yeah I mean I look on Craigslist and you can find the regular Highlanders I see one 30 30,000 miles for 30,000 or

so yeah I see what's going on here okay interesting um all right we have a lot of information here I feel like you know

we've been doing Dave Ramsey's baby steps for a long time I feel like I've been living like nobody else when do I we're on baby step seven when do I get to live like nobody else listen I feel that so tell me when was the last time you did an activity that you would call a live like no one else the ladder that that you like at least a couple of grand where you're like we dropped some money on this we went to the Dominican yeah okay

when was that last month nice okay okay so you

guys are enjoying life yes so we would say you you've driven like no one else now it's time to drive like no one else you've driven the the hoopdee Dave car now it's trying to drive the Dave car you know what I'm saying I've made up my mind I I know what I'm I know how I'm gonna vote it it I got got in a car accident a couple months ago

so it's dinged up on the side man listen you keep playing tell us more she's like really playing up all all these stupid little things don't work on it anymore like you cannot reset my clock so you can't tell what time it is in there Jennifer I call those special features my seat belt doesn't go back listen I got my phone in the car I got my Apple watch in

the car I know what time it is it's fine that's not a big deal but I'm with you here's okay can I vote I know what my vote is are we casting votes I think we're casting votes you guys ready to hear the the verdict let's say it on three all right or the name of the person that we think is right uh yeah say the name of

the person you think is right on three 1 2 3

Jennifer yeah oh my Jennifer you just won a brand new I'm just kidding

Highlander be fantastic a d set from

broy Hill I could be on you think are you shocked no I'm shocked of course Joe is shocked here's the thing because I know this we bought my wife a a new to us car it was a slightly used luxury car and it hurt my

soul Joe to write that check but I also

knew this is part of living the plan it's part of the plan and I have a hard time letting go and writing a big check like that but when you pay for it in cash cash you go oh my gosh that was a lot and then you go this is paid for this is amazing this is a huge blessing and it's why we live like this for

so many years and so I think you guys are doing the right thing just so you know the parameters here you don't want all things with motors and wheels to be more than half of your annual income so that's where I'm going all right 150k is your income everything you own should be 75k listen Joe you could turn around and get yourself a $50,000 car and be all right now what is

this Transit Connect worth um about 20,000 I guess yeah so

even the 20 plus the 50 for hers that would be 70 you still got some wiggle room there yeah not too much but not too

much and you know maybe you wait three years and you get the Highlander but I think you you go for it in two years from now and you get a 2-year-old Grand Highlander and uh if you can't wait that long then just go for a normal Highlander and you can always upgrade later M nothing says you have to drive this car for the next 20 years which is kind of how

you guys have been living right I feel like Joe's really disappointed on this he was waiting no you shouldn't spend more than 30 but I think that will help you guys to go okay half of our income shouldn't be tied up in these things that means we do need to scale back because this Transit plus the car Joe is going to get plus the car Jennifer is going to get it's going to add up to be a large part of our world

and then once you hit millionaire status you can go buy that brand new car and here's why it's not a you know fundamentalist thing it's just that too much of your world would be tied up in a depreciating asset but when you have a million dollar net worth you can stomach that hit on depreciation a little easier and so you guys will be there no time how old are

you two I'm 45

and I'm 56 oh my goodness you got so much time to live and drive like no one else and you know what Joe I think it should be time for you to upgrade after what is your dream car Joe it's a $30,000 car we know that it's the one he's got I actually love my truck he

wants another GMC pickup no he wants to

keep the one he the one I got aming it

it's got an 8ot bed it's got the diesel and I'm good thank you they don't make those 8ot beds anymore all these new pavement princesses out here got the tiniest little beds I'm like what are we even buying pickup trucks for anymore so then Joe real quick tell us if you could spend $330,000 on anything not a vehicle what is your thing like what's your live like no one else thing I would do a boat hey okay there

we go now we got it Joe's in the boat

thank you guys so much for the call and for letting us have some fun excited for you guys to make that cash purchase of that beautiful new to you car very very

soon more of your calls coming up 8825

5225 this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show

hey guys ramsy Solutions started small and grew fast because of that rapid growth there were times when our systems slowed us down that's why we switched to net Suite it works for us and it'll help your business too whether you're starting on a card table like I did or you're well on your way to becoming a multi-million doll Company netw Suite can scale with you and help you communicate and plan better because you know your day-to-day up and down and sideways but accounting analytics and supply chain are on another level so

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[Music]

Ramsey

welcome back to the ramsy show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw this hour the number to call is aa825 5225 Springfield Illinois where we're heading next Levi joins us there welcome to the Ramsey Show Levi are you with us

Levi we were so close to getting Levi on

the air well we'll try to get you back Levi I don't know what happened but if we can't um I'm sorry and call back later my friend we're going to go to Taylor up next in oakair Wisconsin Taylor welcome to the show thank you oh my gosh um okay so my

husband and I put in an offer on a house which was accepted right away we had seven days to turn in the earnest money and on day five we decided to

not um do it so we told our realtor right away and we never paid the earnest money um long story short we got married

last August we're now pregnant with a baby in July and we found out last month that my husband who's in the military is deploying this fall for about a year so the reason that we jumped on this house is because we got scared tried to make a decision it would be easier for me to live by myself for a year um and then

after signing it we were like this is not a good idea this is not the house we want so we canceled we never paid the earnest money and now the seller's mad and they want not only the 3,000 of the earnest money but they're asking for $5,000 000 and they're threatening to seek legal counsel I guess if we don't pay and we just don't know what to do so you signed the offer saying that you would and and the

offer said that you would pay ear money

within seven days yes what does the

contract say about getting out of this because generally there's you know a few ways you could legally back out of this and get your earnest money back or not have to pay Home Inspection contingency appraisal contingency financing contingency is any of that in the contract it is but none of that applies of the situation and it I mean it was

just us backing out of it our realtor isn't being very helpful which we feel like is because obviously she's not I think you are on the hook for it though Taylor if you make an off because I literally my husband and I were just in this situation a couple weeks back if you make an offer and then they and and

you work with the agent say here's what we're offering da d d d da they send you the paperwork you sign it you're saying when you sign it you're saying I'm going to pay the earnest money within this many days this is what's going to happen next and this is what's going to happen next you're kind of you signing on the dotted line is committing to the offer in many ways in all the ways so there's

part of me that thinks that you're on the hook for this and you just the fact

that you didn't pay the earnest money doesn't mean that it wasn't due it just meant that you didn't say what what you said you were going to do if the contract said that you would provide the money within 7 to 10 or 5 to 10 business days or whatever it was 5 to seven days

so they what would you do about the $5,000 so because it was originally three and now they want more money yeah where why are they wanting more yeah because are mad about last time and they refused to sign the contract the new one where we said W we're canceling and not paying and they so they're losing time because they won't sign anything um that's up in the air

I feel like that's I mean they could probably fight it in court and fight for that lost time and put a dollar value on that I would see if you can just settle with them for the three and go listen here's all we can do I got a baby on the way my husband's about to be deployed we're in a crazy situation I hate that this happened didn't want

it to go down like this here's your three okay I don't know if there's a legal way you can get out of this without you fighting it and I don't think you guys have the money or time to go to court and fight this no that's the

thing listen I I hate that this happened Taylor but I tell people all the time like that earnest money if you buy the

house it goes towards the down payment but if you don't that's money upfront that you're spending that obviously you have the propensity to lose and that I call it skin in the game money this is shows I'm I'm really serious about you know buying this house and so the other thing you could do which has its own risks of going through with the home inspection and the appraisal and financing and then having one of those things cause an issue to where you back

out but it sounds like these people are angry enough that they're not going to be happy if you back out later on and waste even more of their time yeah okay it's tough so those

that's a road you could go down but I'm telling you you could still end up paying and it still could be messy if it were me I'd take the contract and I would ask around and I'd ask a couple of different real estate agents I'd say like am I on the hook for this am I on the hook for this and see if you can get some free counsel from other agents

if you say that is not helping out much which never use them again by the way yeah um maybe contact a real estate attorney and say and just do a free conso say here's my situation do you think I have any a case here to even fight this or what should I do yeah we're just concerned we don't want this to go on any longer because obviously they're mad about last time

and we tried to cancel as soon as possible but it went on way longer because they're fighting it like we're a

little confused why they wouldn't just want to put their house back on the market but they can't do that until this is like done so they're losing time on

their own so this is it's causing them to hang in the balance here until they get the situation sorted with you guys yeah yeah I mean you've guys you have the 3,000 how much do you guys have in cash about 15 okay yeah I'm going to

label this under kind of a stupid tax and we learn from the mistake and we move on and go that hurt let's not make decisions out of desperation again cuz this is the kind of stuff that will happen Okay so are you guys going to rent for the foreseeable future while your husband's deployed we own a house and we talked about renting or buying

and I hated all the rentals and it just didn't feel like home and so we looked at a house that was closer because we live pretty far out and I mean the interest rate is double what ours is at and we just felt like it would be a big waste of money for us so and why can't you stay where you're at right now I can't it's just it's we're about 25 minutes out from town

so there's not a lot here for me and I feel kind of alone you don't have any family nearby not no and the dayc carees are far like like groceries you

know everything is far away so I just wanted like convenience for myself because it's going to be hard enough but um yeah we don't we're not really willing to pay for it anymore so yeah well if you did move closer to town you might need to you know compromise and settle and go all right this rental is good enough for this season that I'm in so that I can be closer to civilization as I raise this baby while my husband is deployed I mean that's a lot yeah so I feel for you but you know

adding to the chaos of becoming a homeowner I don't know if that's worth it right now yeah especially when you

guys have grand to take care of it by myself we just I just wanted something closer to town so that at least it was easier for me for running errands yeah now that's reasonable and I hope you guys get this real estate situation sorted out but but uh you know I would have other some other people look at the contract get some other opinions but I think at

the end of the day you just settle with them and go I we can do three we can't do the full five and if they want to waste their time coming at you for that I don't know if they have a case first of all but they might have a case but the the question like you said is it worth the brain C calories and time calories to go

after someone and you know judge George Court it's for sure you'll be lucky to even make it to a judge George Court you know but it' be

some small claims situation right there but I'm soor ha this is happening to you

yeah it was a dumb mistake we made but we kind of panicked so well we always say on this show never no one makes good decisions when they're panicked or drunk that's right but you can always go back and try to settle it and see if if they'll take something but yeah I mean I would personally have some pity on a you know a ass soon to be mom husband's getting deployed serving our country I'm going to go like all right

I don't know George because when you're on the other side of it and you've got timelines like you know she was super sweet but I'm thinking about when Sam and I were moving here you have a timeline it's all business and I'm like if don't mess around and make an offer because time is

money when it comes to this stuff and I I was trying to understand what she was saying but I think that um I think the seller I think they have to have this deal closed and wrapped tight before they can legally accept another offer is that what was going on there is that why they were saying that they were losing time I think right now it's contingent

and they can't make it Li and active again until this situation is sorted because this offer is still halfway out there I see that's the issue just remember when buying a house I always say George you need that stacked deck and down payment we know 5 to 20% earnest money that can be up to 1 to 3% of the purchase price it's a lot of money also think keep in mind closing closing costs

if you're going to be the buyer 2 to 5% and then stuff adds up and

then you got moving costs the Reps

inspections moving cost like you said home ownership is no joke so for those of you excited about it make sure you got your ducks in a row before you jump into this this is the Ramsey

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Show hey guys you know this but I'll say it anyway college is freaking expensive

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[Music]

Ramsey

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this is the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw we've got a fun

event coming up this May 10th and 11th it's called Total Money Makeover weekend a brand new event where in one weekend you'll get a crash course on everything we teach about money and no matter where you're at in your financial Journey the baby steps this will light a fire under you like nothing else it's going to be interactive lots of q& a we are coming up with some really fun different talks Jade than we've ever done

before trying to spice it up is that what I heard you working on this morning yes okay for those of you Schwarzenegger impression I heard some crazy hilarious things George

it that we're just workshopping we're just we're trying out some stuff these people are in for a treat I I like it it's going to be a blast every single ramsy personality will be on the stage it's it's a two-day event Friday and Saturday May 10th and 11th we've got smart money happy hour on Friday Night Live we love a live audience for that with Rachel and

I so don't wait to get your tickets the Platinum Plus tickets are almost sold out a handful left early bird pricing ends on Thursday of this week so if you're planning on joining us get your tickets now to save up to 100 bucks just go to ramsy solutions.com events and start plugging this into your every dollar budget plan for that Transportation it's a destination event here in Nashville you'll have a great time plan for that Platinum Plus that's gangster

I know I like that we we keep coming up with new tiar just to spice things up ramsy solutions.com vents is the place to go all right let's go back to Levi and Springfield let's see if we can get them on the air Levi are you with us I am thanks for taking thought

you you left me on red bro I got nervous how can we help how are you guys doing good how are you oh not too bad i'

a little bit bit of an issue though okay

um so my wife and I we've been working through bab set number two and we've been making pretty good progress and I just recently discovered that my identity had been stolen a yes and I

guess I'm just looking for some guidance on how to navigate that how bad is

it um I'm not really sure hopefully not

too bad yet um I checked my credit report and there was nothing on there okay that shouldn't be been keeping an eye on my bank accounts and everything seems okay there um what happened was they opened up a credit card in my name and then just a

couple days ago I got three phone bills sent to me for numbers that I do

not own so man that stinks and I've been in your exact shoes Levi this is back in 2013 I had identity theft they opened up two cell phone accounts AT&T Verizon racked up 1,700 bucks on both never paid a dime using my social security number and an old address oh shoot is it similar to you yeah my social security number but they're using my current address that's why I'm getting all

the notices man so have you frozen your credit yet I just did that today okay that's good that's good and did you have a fraud alert placed on all of your credit accounts um no because I haven't been able to speak with AT&T yet um it's

impossible to speak with a human being with them I guess uh anyway I uh filed

the police report yesterday and I want to keep trying to contact AT&T through to them um but the credit card did put a fraud alert the credit card company put a fraud alert on my okay and they revers the charges you won't anything on any of that nope there were no charges on the card I caught it in time okay that's good have you filed a report with the Federal Trade Commission yet on their website FTC no I have not okay I would do that

as well and you've already got the police report so you're going to need that as you submit it to different you know creditors and credit bureaus you might need that okay and outside of that

um make sure you're checking all of your accounts regularly make sure you have a freeze on all three accounts with all three bureaus okay and then beyond that you

want to get any account records from all these if there's a debt collector involved or AT&T get every record you can get that's the thing what if AT&T doesn't cooperate with me on this what steps do I need to take well I mean if you have a police report and you have the FTC report that should be enough to get them to go oh this wasn't him

I mean I don't know how they give you issue or cause you to don't ever pay a dime for any of these accounts gotcha even if it goes to collections this is not your yeah I wasn't planning on paying anything but and then did you already connect your talk to your bank no I haven't spoke to my bank yet okay that'd be my next move when I get off

the phone with us let them know that this has happened because who knows what else they have but I would probably get a new account set up with a new deit carded yeah okay and also contact your

utility providers and let them know do I need to contact do I need to contact the office of Social Security if you think that if you s suspect that they have either your social security card if you suspect that they have your driver's license I'd contact social security I'd

contact the DMV and maybe even you know if you think they might have your passport like only you can suspect what you think's going on here and how you think they got their your information and so you yeah I would I would contact them on their website and see if you can get a replacement okay yeah I know they don't have my physical cards but I don't think

you can open up a phone line without a Social Security number so that's just why I assume they had it yeah they have an office of the Inspector General and I'll send you a we'll send you the blog post that outlines all the steps you need to take I would also update your main passwords and usernames mm M okay and uh for the

future ID Theft Protection is super important to have we have it on every single team member here at Ramsey and ours is through our friends at Xander so it's a it's a like an insurance it's not technically an insurance product but it that will help with all the restoration services that you need to get your life back and it's super cheap like before I came here I think

I paid like 12 bucks a month for now it's I think it's like seven bucks a month yeah for me and my husband um Levi will make sure to send you that the article that outlines all these steps but man the truth is it's just going to take uh some time and effort to get all this sorted out but you're going to be okay yeah I think that that don't lose sleep over

it having that ID Theft Protection is going to be really important going forward because a lot of times once your ID is stolen once it's kind of like that information is out there and it's likely that it can happen again so having somebody who's monitoring it all the time is a big big deal yeah and we'll

hook you up we'll um um with our friends at Xander as well and see what they can do about it after the fact to help you clean this up man so so sorry you're going through this o be sure hey one other thing be sure to monitor your tax return too make sure that they're not trying to get their their paw at that because that is a pain in the you know what to go through y thanks for the call

Levi appreciate it man and for everyone listening out there if you want to check out that blog article that I wrote It's called what to do if your identity is stolen it's on the Ramsey Solutions website and we will put a link in the description and show notes wherever you're listening so you can just scroll down there and click and we'll make sure that Levi gets that as well

but be sure to check out Xander's ID Theft Protection it really is a great way to make sure you're you're covered your family's covered again it's like uh I'm seeing here on their website individual 675 a month 75 a year for a whole family it's 145 a year 12290 a

month and it has been it has saved my bacon uh one or two times when that does happen it's one of those things like home insurance you hope you don't have to use it but goodness when it's there and this this lady at Xander's handling everything for me and I just submit all the paperwork it just gave me a little bit of peace and confidence as I went along my business I've never had my identity stolen I've had a debit card

you know like somebody gets your debit card number and tries to buy Xboxes which is what happened to Sam and I won Christmas Eve but other than that like never the extreme of like they've got my social and they've got my well it's it's almost like a like a home invasion it's just such a invasion of your own privacy

yeah I mean they're stealing from you at the at the most personal level Y and the truth is this happens so often that like rarely are you going to get the I wanted my these people to like go to jail and they're like it doesn't work like that you want to see him taken away in handcuffs and I went full detective I was like I'm going to find out who

these people are my wife was like please don't don't do that you don't know what you're doing you're not John Wick all right you're not this is not going to be some Liam n level you know Revenge story I'm learning that about you George that you really do like to get to the bottom of things I'm thinking about another story you told me I'm a nice guy until I'm not a nice guy

but truly so so funny it is not a fun thing to deal with and so you want to make sure you know with one of these ID Theft Protection Services what they're offering is number one real time identity monitoring instant alerts the recovery work for every type of identity theft and what's really cool recovery of up to a million dollars in stolen funds that's partially what's covered with Identity Theft Protection

so be sure to check it out uh at Ramy solutions.com you can find our Identity Theft Protection help from our friends at Xander that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books thank you to my co-host Jade warshaw all the folks in the booth we got Skyler Ben Austin Zack

Nathan Bobby all hanging out back there keeping the show AF flat and you America thank you so much for listening we appreciate it we'll be back before you know [Music]

it

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oh [Applause] [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw it's your show America so call us up at 8825 5225 we'll talk about your life and

your money and we'll tell you the truth even if it hurts your feelings a little bit because we care that deeply Brandon

kicks us off in Fort Wayne Indiana Brandon welcome to the show hey George a big fan of yours thank you I appreciate you guys having me on the show Absolutely came across came across your book and it's changed the way my wife and I view money so that's so cool to hear that's That's the basis of our question um ultimately our question is

whether or not we should go down to one car to pay off our debt wow we have

three cars one of them is a sports car

just a fun toy that's automatically sold but my wife and I are trying to decide should we go down to one car to be out of debt as soon as the car sells or

would that not be smart to do that do you have kids uh yeah we have a one-year-old okay um and I'm a full-time student okay and my wife works full-time okay so and I'm guessing proximity my my mind goes to proximity because when when my husband and I were getting out of debt we went down to a onecar family and we did it because my sister-in-law my sister went down to a onecar family and they did it with two kids so we figured okay we can do this but I do think proximity matters like uh

her being able to drop you off at school you know on her way to work those sorts of things do you see a world where that could take place yeah um it definitely

be kind of hard but she makes her own schedule um and my parents have three cars and there's a chance that we might be able to borrow one of their cars for a month ooh um what would happen in that month um so we

we've literally just started the like the process so all we have is her student loans um but we have about 10,000 set aside that we haven't put towards it yet ,000 cash how much in

total debt uh 28 all right student loans

and between the two cars um based off a Kelly Blue Book we could get 25 so 2500

thousand 25,000 the sports car plus the other car that you're planning on selling great correct so between that plus your cash you have 35k you knock out the student loans you have seven left over right we go purchase a $5,000

car yeah I love this plan but think it's

solid okay I yeah it's just it's a

little nerve-wracking you know having a kid going down to one car um but even if

like my question was even if like we couldn't there's a chance we could borrow the car from my parents but even if not you think it's still smart I think it's really for you to buy for you to drive the $5,000 car for a while uh sorry you're breaking up on us

Brandon I'm sorry just to go down to one car um until we can I mean you could survive that for a few weeks depending on how strong your marriage is I think I could probably make it one week before it starts to tear us apart I I think that and my wife works here by the way let me tell you I'm just being honest I think that people don't consider it and I think that they would be shocked my husband and I were a onec car family for 10 years we started years yes we sold

our car um in 20 2009 Sam when we were getting out of

debt and we stuck to one car and then we

had two kids and we still had one car and when we moved here when I joined Ramsay I we bought our second car wow

yeah it can be done it just requires coordination and it's one of those things that when you first start out it's uncomfortable because you're not used to it but once you figure out your rhythms and your routines it's like yeah matter of fact I got to the point where I was like we don't need a second car and my H you can role play this for the

next week you guys only use one car see how it goes yeah idea as you get the other two listed and just live like that and see how it goes and if it works out keep doing it but either way I'd get that $5,000 card and just have it for now until you or upgrade a little bit later with cash you're going to see savings on insurance too which is great A lot of savings

but all the cars are paid off yeah all the cars paid off the only debt we have is uh is the student loans what's the payments on the student loans uh 2 60 like it's between like five different student loans comes out to like 267 I

think a month oh nice so that I mean right fa that's over three grand that you can put towards your savings goals

right as you free up the payment so I think this is an no-brainer okay I appreciate it yeah you

got it man that's a fun fun call I did not know Jade was a one car family one car family for 10 years wow yeah that's crazy I mean even Whitney working at ramsy I rarely get to commute with her our schedules are just all over the place and now with a baby it's like well you got to go home I got to record but you guys work in the same place George you and I could get like rides from people but I just I'm I'm I feel too guilty being like Hey man can I get a ride again you drive me home after work listen I I would take Uber like every once in a while on the weekend we might have an issue and it's like oh just get an U Uber and I remember my friend Fred would be like why are you ubering just call like we'll drive you like we'll pick you up I'm like no it's I don't want to burden anybody else with it that's my thing we never viewed it as a burden it was just like all right yeah I'll just grab an Uber that's why we need John deloney to be like you're not a burden to your friends text him at 3:00 a.m.

your ride like unless you're

then I I I might help you move if you're in baby St 2 but once you're out of that just hire a mover yeah there's levels to that cuz I'm not moving stairs like an apartment no I'll help you put some things in a box George if a friend

breaks something I'm like oh gosh but if the Mover does it I'm getting that money back yeah you can like yeah get funky fresh you know when my buddy Joe helps me move and he breaks something I'm like well that's thing he was helping for free would I charge the guy so that part's stressful you have to pay them with something even if you're an adult you have to have drinks or pizza or like there's got to be some form of payment

you can't just say come help me move absolutely well I was just reading a consumer reports article which I'm a I'm a paying member now Jade that's how you know I'm getting old George you're different I'm getting all I'm next step AARP is up next but they have a great article because we've been telling people the $5,000 card exists yeah it does and Consumer Reports had an article from February 14th best used cars

and SUVs for less than $5,000 you go and you wouldn't be shocked to hear the brands on here can you guess them Toyota yep uh Nissan nope Ford nope uh I was hoping

you'd hit the major too uh rhymes with

Ronda hondai Honda Honda there we go

Toyota and Honda took the top uh definitely and Lexus was on there too and guess what these cars are 20-year-old cars I believe that you know it's an ' 06 Accord it's the 04 Lexus ES

but you see these on the road4 Avalon 05 cam these are invincible cars these cars will out me 100% Rav 4 a 2001 Tacoma you

see goty in a 2001 Toyota Tacoma he's going he's got work to do

you see a guy in the brand new F250 yeah

that thing has not doesn't have a scratch on it Jade that guy's hauling mulch once a year from Lowe's that's about the only thing he's doing with that you never see like old Volkswagen you never see old Volvos yeah you ever see a Saturn on the road this my guy still holding on if you have a Saturn I'm sorry it's usually like in a Taco Bell drive-thru at 3:00 a.m. like this man has seen some things if he's driving a Saturn around at 3:00 a.m.

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budget

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George Cel joined by Jade warshaw friendly reminder you can always visit us here at the ramsy solutions worldwide headquarters just south of Nashville Tennessee if you're ever vacationing or you just want a fun trip come through we're uh just about a half hour south of of downtown Nashville we do the show on the glass live you can hang out for all three hours there's a museum timeline wall

the Baker Street Cafe with free baked goods and coffee uh bookstore a lot of fun so make a visit I just we just met a family with custom Cricut shirts they made and the girl shirt said we're on our way to Disney mom made us stop here that's so funny which is thats for the funniest shirt of the day well it's worth noting because sometimes especially if

you watch the show on YouTube it looks like we're like sitting in our chairs really fast and putting in our in ears it's cuz we go out in the lobby and meet everybody hands and all the personalities do that Dave included so it's a fun time we'll sign things take pictures just hang out uh for a moment and it's always a good time so make a trip to Nashville

and stop by and see us why don't you it's time for our question of the day Jade what do we have all right today's question comes from Brandon in Georgia he says I will graduate college debt-free this semester because of an internship I will likely receive a full-time job offer of7 ,000 a year at a reputable company with a lot of room to move up that's good how does someone who leaves college debt-free with a decent income manage their money

when it's their first time on salary I don't have to pay rent or I don't want to have to pay I don't want thank you I don't want to have to pay rent or get a car with debt while also having to save money for retirement at the same time my biggest fear is wasting money renting before I feel I'm financially capable to take on buying or morg moring a home what's your advice

I I love this I think this guy is just now getting started he's got a nice career setup for himself the first step is to get on a budget like that's Numero Uno if you don't have an every dollar budget you need to down one today the free version's amazing but the premium version is even better so I'd say that that'd be his first thing um he says

I don't want to have to pay rent or get a car with debt so my next

piece of advice is don't you know over here we just say that we live a debt-free lifestyle and we draw Line in the Sand and we don't borrow money so for you the next thing is to probably use that great income to start saving up for a car and to answer your question about renting I would rent for the time being I'd get a couple of Roommates could a get a couple of guys and just get used to living that adult lifestyle

right you're getting up you're going to work every morning you're saving up for a car you're on a budget start getting your your your confidence built that you can live on what you make and then at the right time I would look at buying a home I'd make sure that I have the right down payment in an area that's right for you with your job and I would not look

at renting as a negative because I feel like here you're kind of feeling that renting is a negative and I it's not it's just buying you time until you can afford to buy a house the right way and that's truly what it is George yeah I'm just exhausted by this narrative that society and parents are telling young people which is renting is a sin it's a waste of money

you better get in a home as soon as possible and I get the heart behind it it's well meaning yeah but then it creates this and it means people jump out of college at 22 and they're like I need to buy a house even though I'm not ready now luckily our friend Brandon has no debt making 70k a year that blows my mind I wasn't making half of that

when I got my first job out of college and I moved to Nashville and what do you do you get some roommates you get some side hustles and so I I think that's a a smart move be ready for the first month deposit last month rent whatever that is uh be ready for that financially so I would save up ACH of cash and maybe work part so that

when

you graduate even before that first paycheck hits you're ready to make the move and go rent somewhere with some roommates and renting to George to your point it does get a bad stigma and it's not it it it's not a bad thing my husband and I rented for over 10 years

before we bought a house and our situation was different we were trying to pay off almost half a million dollars of debt but in many ways I can liken it to what's going on right now because the housing market is so expensive that people feel like I'm never quote I'm never going to be able to buy a house and I'm like you will be able to instead of

it taking 3 years or four years it could take six or seven or seven or eight or eight or nine or 10 like there is part of this that I just want people to feel encourag that just because a journey takes longer doesn't mean you won't make it to the finish line and doesn't mean it's not worth it uh to rent until you get there amen and last thing I'll say Brandon

if you're listening and I hope you are is when you go from making nothing to making $70,000 the life hack is to keep living like you make nothing keep living on less than you make if you can learn to live off of 20 grand when you make 70 you're going to be unbelievably wealthy but for most people they just fill in the Gap they make 70 we're just going to spend to 70

and or they spend 80 that's

the American story right there and so if you can avoid that avoid lifestyle creep avoid the comparison culture and lifestyle you're going to be just fine my friend so great question love that for any young person that's listening someone about to graduate send them this call it could change everything all right let's get to the phone lines Philadelphia is up next Angela joins us there welcome Angela Hi how are

you doing well thank you for having me on the on the show Absolutely what's going on today so my my question is around student loans and emergency funds so I I'm older I have a

pretty decent salary um I contribute to

my 401ks I have brokerage accounts and

my issue is my mentality around um

dumping all of my emergency fund into my student loans so I have exactly the amount to pay off my student loan in my emergency fund but I am terrified to start over again how old are you building that emergency uh 41 and how many how much do you have in student loans $50,000 50,000 let me tell you

what's terrifying having $50,000 in student loans decades after you graduated when did you graduate so so this is from grad school and so that would be like 10 years ago girl listen I

I have two ways that I like explaining this one is just math math it's really

just the math for me because if you think that you have balance sheet yeah if you if you say that you have $50,000 and that's what's keeping you warm at night the math would differ and and it would disagree with you because technically that you owe that whether you admit it or not you owe it to I know you know so there's that piece of it i al yeah

but I'm worried about um like if something were to happen with my house where I literally need like $5,000 for something or so how much do you make every month um about seven I probably bring

home about seven and is it just you yes

it's just me okay and how much was your student loan payment um so last year I really after

like just really getting into my finances and make and just making sure that I'm like doing what I'm supposed to do I really I up the pain so right now my student loan payment is actually it's this isn't something I chose it's $1,500 a month CU I can afford that so I really am trying to knock it out but I'm like do I just say this three to five year course that

they have me on or do I Angela the whole point that I'm trying to make to you is you make $7,000 a month it's just you your student loan payment alone that you've chosen to pay is$ 1,500 which means this off how

quickly could you pay could you save up $5,000 and get that cushion back under you that you want yeah that's fair yep that's fair you'd save it so quickly plus I'm guessing there's probably if you wanted to get really intense I know there's more margin somewhere in the $7,000 that you could stack that up even faster right now you're living in the way I like to describe

this it's like the student loan house like on the on the inside it's like modern and beautiful and the payment's not that much and you know you've got 50,000 saved and you just think that there's like this beautiful landscape in front of you but the minute you open up the door you're like on a cliff and like be

like it's just you're one false move is and you're falling off a cliff and the Sun is burning you up and it's just like Doomsday out there and as long as you stay in the house you're fine but your body knows that you're in danger and that you're on this cliff and as John

delone says all the time your body keeps Theo the score and so I really do think that there's a toll that we pay mentally

and psychologically and physically inside of our bodies for having this debt yeah and it is definitely more of a

mental toll because I I've worked so hard I'm just like oh I could just pay this off but also it's like but then you will have nothing I will have nothing I think that's a lie that your brain is telling yourself you will have something you'll have your income back and you'll have savings the same savings that you had in a matter of a few short months

if you get after it you'll be there you stack up the money you're putting toward the payment in an emergency fund with your amazing income and how much do you have in the brokerage account um I well I have some a 401k but

I think my brokerage has about $880,000 now oh my goodness you're good you're fine this is paranoia if you don't pay this off today we're so proud of you this is the ramsy

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apply this is the Ramsay show if you like what you're hear please consider subscribing leaving a review or hitting the follow button sharing it with a friend maybe a text a link whatever it is we appreciate it you guys are the best marketing plan we have out there and we so appreciate the millions of you that listen Faithfully every week and you tell your friends about it

and they add it to their repertoire of podcasts or shows or YouTube and all of a sudden you know life change starts happening and they start getting excited about what could be with their money situation and it all could start with you so thank you guys so much for sharing the show Dakota is up next in Phoenix Arizona Dakota what is happening hey guys thank you for having me on um

so I have about $60,000 worth

of debt and I was hoping to get some guidance from you guys on where I should go next okay what kind of debt is this

so I have two car loans a car for myself and my wife that total just uh about

$30,000 and I have have uh a business

that my business partner walked out on so I'm owing him the rest of that money debt as well so $30,000 a him like a buyout from the business exactly yes

that's 30k what's the arrangement for that 30k um so I I work in an industry that

the monthly income varies just a little bit so I have the we way to pay either 500 or $2,000 a month obviously I'm

trying to get it done as quick as possible but it's hard to with the varying income interesting so what do you bring in every month not just you but your wife as well so we bring in anywhere from $6,000

to $8,000 a month okay and um these cars

so you said together they're worth 30k can you split them out for me so I can yes I have a Toyota Tacoma 2019

that's uh $20,000 uh and then uh she just got a

new uh not new but it's a used Hyundai

Elantra a 2019 as well I think there's $14,000 on that okay so 34 between the

two if you were to sell the $20,000 car

would it bring anything you upside down $10,000 I have

like $10,000 in equity in it right now okay I might consider getting out of one of these car notes especially since you've got you could get something for one of them yeah and my only hesitation about doing that is I I live in Arizona but I work in California and I just want to make sure that reliable transportation to get there well you said if you sold it it'd bring 10,000 yes is that's what you would net so it's worth 30 you ow 20 yeah that's

that's private I probably get a little bit less selling it to a dealership some

so there's some money there to get a reliable vehicle and if I mean think about it your your wife's vehicle is only 4,000 more so if you were to if you were really up against it you guys could switch for a little while until you get right side up on this debt yeah luckily she works from home but I just feel bad leaving her out here without a car my parents aren't exact no you'd be getting a $10,000 car oh oh I

got you yeah okay that that makes lot more sense yeah yeah what kind of business are you in uh I own a tattoo shop okay and you travel for

that yeah yeah so the shop luckily it it pays for itself the shop uh I mean it so the shop itself has a savings as well but I just don't want to touch that just in case something does happen I know have to replace the floor soon and right all that I've never really had this much de my life so I'm a little bit uh anxious to say

the least no I you have no savings for yourself uh we have a personal savings of somewhere around three or $4,000 okay but I've literally emptied my bank account um I mean I I have some other like Investments like somewhere around like $8,000 with a precious metal that I boled with the company but like that's about it well I'm getting rid of that yeah I probably dump

the precious metal and take 3,000 from your Pile in savings and go get yourself a reliable car with cash after you sell yours and

what's your payment on that uh my monthly payment on my truck is $600 a month probably $800 total with insurance so you'll free up that money as soon as you sell this thing yeah which is going to add a whole bunch to your income every month which will help you get rid of the business debt and get rid of her car loan and so you can see how

this thing snowballs yeah yeah I'm just I'm so anxious not to have like that Security net you know because that's all the cash I have and I don't want to touch the business Security net you got $64,000 in

debt that makes me anxious yeah that too not a Ply savings

account yeah yeah true so I'm getting rid of the precious metals I'm cashing out on that you'll be lucky to get I mean precious metals aren't a great quote investment so you'll be lucky to get out of that what you put into it what' you say it was 8,000 yeah listen you take that money

you take 3,000 and you you're I mean you're almost out of this car note with your wife you sell your car you take that 10,000 buy yourself something in cash this is happening really quickly with the cars and then you've got you're on the hook for 30,000 and then with that you freed up $600 from your car note how much is her car note uh I think it's like 270 a month

okay so you said with insurance six S8 so you've got an extra thousand that you're going to bring to the table relatively soon to pay off this

30,000 okay that's not bad so I would

set an aggressive goal that scares you just a little bit where you're like all right by this date I will be completely debt free if I just commit to this plan okay what do you think a reasonable like like like four five months like that Intense or once you have the 30k left for the business debt then go all right I can put uh you know 4K a month towards

this and be done in seven and a half months and so it depends on when you make your budget using every dollar that will show you exactly how much margin you should have if you follow the budget Okay cool so it's it's going to be you know a few months where you're like we can't go out to eat we got to cut some subscriptions we got to sell things laying around that have been collecting dust some old tattoo shop equipment

we no longer use and let the fact you let the fact that you only have $1,000 saved be the thing that just lights the fire under your butt to get to to keep going intensely at this right like you said it makes you feel like you're out there to only have $1,000 saved and it should it should make you feel like holy moly I got to get my life together yeah no doubt

and you're you're a tattoo artist I assume yes that's correct so can you make any ex ra side money oh no I mean I'm sure once I get the business you know or I get the rid of the car payment one or the other I'll be able to throw some extra income from the business towards that loan as well but but could you open let's say Sunday afternoons I'm going to do some extra hours oh yeah yeah right now I'm working five days a week uh

but I try to come home as often as I can to see my wife because uh I only get to see her maybe five days every two weeks because of the split between the business partner and all that you know I was supposed to be two weeks on two weeks off yeah I'd figure out way to create a more stable life where you're not having to travel as much yeah yeah that should be part of

this part of this getting Financial stability is how do I just change my lifestyle yeah what does it just look what does it look like to do tattoos in your area and to uh I mean I'm I'm so

sorry go ahead that's okay uh I mean we stay pretty busy as a

shop um I make $150 an hour and I typically do two tattoos a day um but obviously with economic slowing things have Tak a little little uh step back

unfortunately nobody has stimulus checks anymore so it's not as busy as it was but yeah I see what you're saying so for me that looks like uh understanding okay

how long am I going to let myself be in a situation where I'm not making enough to make a living and what can you do in the meantime to fill in that Gap are you investing at all right now uh my my precious metals were the only investment that I really had okay I would pause all investing until you get this debt cleaned up once you have

the debt cleaned up then we have to build a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses so if your expenses are $4,000 a month let's call six months you need 24 Grand in that account so that you have a force field between you and life and then you never have to touch debt again yeah because I know the the shop has at least like four or five months uh where

I could operate just on savings alone and then add is my personal stuff I maybe have like one or two months good between everything I have but yeah okay yeah the similarities between your personal life and business are are strong where you go all right if I can run this thing debt free with a pile of money in the bank to protect me it's going to be a lot more peaceful

I still had questions cuz he's got he's got the shop but he's traveling is he just traveling to do individual tattoos for Dakota uh singular tell me if I'm wrong but you're going to the other shop to do tattoos uh no when I'm when I'm out in Arizona I was just spending time with my wife uh and then uh when I go back home I I work

so the shop is not near your wife so there's the problem we need to move your family to where your work is that's what we need to be looking at in the future how far away are they uh it's about 4 hours goodness gracious why not just start can you start a shop right by your house uh unfortunately not most of my clients tell that I built

I I've had to in California for 10 years now and starting over sitting around waiting dude time to build some new clientele this is not a life that's sustainable man thanks for the call this is the ramsy [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw

reminder that we've got some great shows on the Ramsey Network when you're done with this one so check them out at our website ramsy solutions.com we've got the Rachel Cruz Show Ken Coleman show Dr John deloney show I've got a smart money happy hour with Rachel Cruz that's a fun one we're recording right after we're done with this show so that'll be a good time and then a YouTube channel that

I launched less than a year ago that's gone gangbuster so check it all out we have no shortage of content you can't you can't point at us and go those Ramy people just not enough no it's a wide variety hours a day and uh Jade will soon one day hopefully have a show I can't wait to see what it is listen I got a gleam in my eyes just let me be a guest that's all

I ask for of course hey I'm going to be on your show remember the little people that's right jade made an appearance on uh the George Campell YouTube channel people loved it right right all right let's go to the phone lines Frederick joins us in San Diego what's going on Frederick hi guys um thanks for having me I I purchased a home in 2021 for

500,000 with a 2.5 interest rate and

it's now appreciated to 750,000 I'm thinking about selling it

and getting a bigger home because my family's growing aha okay how many bedrooms is your current home uh it's three bed and two and a half bath and we have our second child actually due this week probably today or tomorrow actually whoa that's exciting yeah yeah very exciting

um and just thinking about getting into a four bedroom my wife and I are hybrid workers so things are getting a little cramped here and our backyard's a little small so just just think about taking that Equity rolling it into a house a little bit more North and getting more house what would that do um have you ran

the numbers out as far as monthly

payment and what percentage of your monthly payment it might be um so looking at the houses if if we

to do $750,000 house roll the equity in we still owe right around the same uh but the interest rates being like 6.5 to 7.5% now my monthly payment would go up maybe like 300 bucks which isn't like is

that a 30 year or a 15 that's a 30 I know you guys love

15 got him well what would it look like

since you guys are making this move anyways to to move to that 15year would that be what percentage of your income would that be of your take-home pay oh man I I haven't done the math to be honest on the 15 I'd crunch it and it's not to be a

rule follower I just I think the goal should not just be to upgrade an home but to be completely debt free and own that home outright and the fastest way to do that and the cheaper way to do that is with a 15-year not in payment but as far as what you'll pay in interest the interest rate will likely be lower and so I think long term you'll be grateful

you did that as long as you guys are in a good Financial spot do you have no debt with an emergency fund uh we have an emergency fund uh but we do have two cars that oh uh oh this

this equation is getting worse and worse

Frederick are you regretting the call no I really do think that you know

what George and I are saying we just want to set you up for Success financially so I would look into paying these cars before we make that move and get under an even more stable Financial footing and then I would not upgrade house unless I was also willing to upgrade to a 15-year fixed rate mortgage which for you is let's be honest that's going to feel very it's going to feel like Whiplash

because you're used to having that lower mortgage monthly payment you're looking at the monthly payment and we're all about like you said George paying this thing off in the long haul when we look at a car we never go well what's the lowest payment that's broke people talk people go well what is the total cost of the car and can I afford it and so obviously we don't yell at

you for the 15year fixed mortgage but I think uh you know looking at what it would take to get rid of these cars and what's in your emergency fund that would be a good first step so how much are the car loans total uh so the we have two vehicles um

I think total we owe right around 65 and

what's your household income um I make a 100 and my wife makes right around 90 awesome so we have a great income but we got a lot of car man that's a lot of payment is that 1,000 bucks a month in payments at least yeah yeah we're we're pretty much right there the other caveat to this I was thinking is I could rent out my house and then just I don't think

so that's a lot of risk and stress in my book taking on two mortgages and hoping that it all works out perfectly uh we've taken that call where it doesn't work out perfectly and so that's why we steer people away from that one what does it look like for you guys I'm just looking at what you said you have a $500,000 house it's three bedroom two and a half bath and you're about to have your second child correct okay so one bedroom

is for you your two kids share a bedroom and you've got a bedroom that's an office that's is that the plan right but my wife my wife also works from home too so it's just okay so then that means somebody's in the living room or someone's in the you guys are having work in the laundry room I yeah exactly

I I personally and this is you know you're a grown man you'll go away and do what you feel but I personally would not

I've had two 15-year fixed rate mortgages and I'm astonished how quickly

you pay it off because of how much of the payment is going towards in uh the principal as oppos to interest every month and I think that you'll just be

blown away you do that for the first time likely six figures Less in interest on the 15E versus the 30-y year when you crunch the numbers and that will make you want to throw up seeing how much money you're throwing away to the lender to bless them so that's another reason I look at that but Frederick you told me at 15E man that'd be tight and I'm going well if you freed up the ,000 from the car payments that 15year payment wouldn't seem so scary would it no definitely be probably way more

reasonable and that's where I go like I think you guys can do the 50 you make 190 I think it's reasonable to to do that 15 year but we need to get rid of these cars and if that means we got to sell them and downgrade for now I mean if you have enough equity and you can have some net profit out of this it might not be a bad idea how much do you have in the emergency fund uh we have right around three months worth um so I think we have close

to 20 20,000 right now okay what do you

think you'd get for these cars you think You' get 65 or 70 or 75 uh well so we would probably be under

on the cars just because it was a and we purchased them brand new that was the they depreciate the fastest when they're brand new yeah okay well I mean with our

parameters there's nothing wrong with keeping these cars but I think it's holding you back from that next step which you told me you urgently want to get into a house and you got the the new baby to me the baby trumps the fancy car and therefore I might still consider selling those cars and purchasing something with cash even if you can get what you put into it

and you use 19 out of your 20 in savings to go get you two cheaper cars you both work at home not a ton of travel happening that might be the move so that you can get into that house faster I think so and honestly like I'm just looking at numbers if you're looking at a $700,000 house that's what you're looking at right and you're putting the 250 down that you're getting from

the sale of the other house you're rolling it all over right yep okay 15year fixed rate I don't

know what your mortgage rates you know I don't know what the rates are and everything taxes and everything but I'm looking at Tennessee 6.7 6.7% mortgage

rate taxes fees it puts you at 4,900 a

month and I'm looking at what you said 190k is your gross yeah what's your current

mortgage Uh current mortgage I'm paying 3,300 a month now you say it would go up to about 4,100 on a

30-year right around yeah I think it was like 3900 was going to be the and this puts you at 4,900 so more and that's

exactly what your car payments are if not a little less and so I think this is very doable but we just have to trade in paying lenders for these cars into let's build equity and get this house paid off that's the tradeoff and that's a worthy

tradeoff okay all right thank you guys absolutely thanks for the call man I hope you do it because I I'm excited I get excited when I see people trade in the payments they were making we say you know if you want to do interest right wealthy people earn interest broke people pay interest that's a big difference and so when you get rid of those payments you free up $1,000 for most people it's more than that

when you add up all of the debt payment in their life and instead you use that to build wealth and pay off the house and invest the numbers start to just Boggle your mind the mind yeah that's so true and if you don't believe me go on ramsy solutions.com use our free investment calculator and add up what your debt payments are and put that as the monthly contribution

and do that from your age up to 62 65 oh mind's blown 8 to 10%

return thank me later you'll be like oh my gosh let's pay off the debt today honey we could be bajillionaires yeah it's so worth it I'm just thinking about owning a house in 15 years as opposed to 30 absolutely you know don't give yourself wigg that's what we here well you got to give yourself wiggle room uh-uh we got the emergency fund get out of here with that wiggle room miss me with that this is the ramsy [Music]

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[Applause] [Music] live from the headquarters of RAM Ramy Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George Campbell joined by Jade warshaw this is your show America give us a call at 8825 5225 you can't text us you can't

tweet us you can't X us you can't Tik Tock us you got to call the number with your handy dandy phone it still makes calls I found out it does still do it's not just an internet although I'll be honest I don't like when I get calls now unless it's from my mom or my wife or Grandma I don't pick up yeah don't call me and definitely don't call me and then text me call me after you've called me

wow I don't like I didn't know Jade felt

that way but now we Knowle 8825

5225 Malaysia kicks us off in San

Antonio what's going on Malaysia hi guys um so my husband and I

are about over $100,000 in debt and uh

we have a baby on the way and all kinds of debt just kind of overwhelmed and don't know where to start what kind of debt do you have can you list it out for us um so about 40,000 in credit cards um

20,000 in student loans which um haven't

kicking yet because I'm still currently in school okay um so I haven't started paying on those yet when do you graduate um he uh next 2025 okay keep going and

then um he has a truck we're both small business business owner so he has a truck that he uses he does General Contracting that's 35,000 he just got um

6 months ago and then we have a Mazda that we're about to finish paying off that's 2,000 left on that I have a Jeep that's 25,000 and then with his business um he

kind of fell behind in paying the taxes

so from 2022 he owes the IRS about 5,000

on that and then this past year he is going to have to pay taxes you know at the end of the year because he didn't pay throughout the year and then with um

what is it the um insurance we make too

much to qualify for Medicaid so we have to pay for the health insurance and then the max do pocket for the um delivery is

going to end up costing us about $9,000 okay that's your max out of pocket okay good so we got well over H 100,000 yeah okay I'm getting I'm

getting rid of every car on this list that's what I'm looking at except for that one that you got 000 paid off I don't believe that he needs a $35,000 truck to do general contractor work no

way do agree or disagree

Malaysia I do agree um he was he was

actually using the Mazda prior so that's

why we ended up getting the jeep is because the Mazda is like kind of trashed out at this point yeah it has a lot of miles on it he like ran it into the ground and then he's like okay I need I need to get actual work truck okay but he didn't need to spend 35,000 let's be honest about that and he didn't need to go 35,000 into debt mhm yeah so

some of this we can clean up some of it we have to crawl out of what did you spend $440,000 on with the credit cards um that was a crud over years um

just like a bunch of different things I used to have a RV and I ended up putting

it down payment on the credit cards and then I sold but then I still ping off the credit cards and then when we got engaged we bought the ring with credit cards just a bunch of stuff I can we both agree that your life is stressful and that you guys work too hard to live this Insanity yes absolutely what are you earning what are the two of you earning tell me yours and tell me his please so

my business I just started like maybe less than a year like maybe six to eight months ago so I'm trying to still figure out the numbers um but no no no no no

that's an excuse what have you been earning on average when you take all the average months together and average them out what would you say that you earn what are you paying yourself um maybe like 2,000 a month

okay and what about your husband um his varies as

well um it's just it's hard to say you didn't said no it's not what did he make last month um so it's been slow because it's like winter time still but we're start it's starting to warm up and pick up a little bit more um neither of you should be running a business if you don't know how much you made last month last month he made about 5,000 okay here's what

I think's going on um and I'm just going to call a spade a spade I'm glad you called we want to help you but when I ask somebody how much their business made and they go ah it's cuz in that moment you're realizing I'm this is this is part-time or this is a hobby because you're realizing in that moment that although you're passionate about it it's not making enough to sustain your household

and I think with your business as much as you love it and as much as a it's a passion right now you're making $24,000 a year before taxes and so it's it's not a business

yet it's something that you're good at and it's something you love but as long as you're making 2,000 bucks a month you got to have a full-time job on top of that this right now this is the side hustle and you've got to add another job what do you a school for

um so it's like multidisciplinary studies which is focusing in business communication and health and what's that going to do for you as far as your career well because I have my business and I feel like it's a good backing

towards me being in business myself like I've been learning a lot more um taking

the classes that I have been taking and then the communication behind it because I'm like you know the person running everything I'm learning about was now the time to go get go into student loan debt to get this degree I had started that prior I've been like doing that along the way and I'm just kind of like I want to finish and get my degree because I because I went to um I get my associates and I was

like well I just want to finish and get my bachelor so what's the plan you told me you graduate in 2025 what's the plan to pay for school from now until then for the next year

um just like I don't know just kind of

yeah you do got us here I got to call this out you got to stop saying you don't know because you do know you just don't want to say you know that you were planning on taking out student loans the same way that you knew that your pay wasn't enough to qualify as a full-time job and the same way that you know that your husband's pay is not enough to qualify as a full-time job don't say

you don't know because we can't solve the problem unless we are willing to look at it and go this is the problem say it out loud and then you know the problem right now is debt and not only debt but you guys have not decided to stop going into debt yet cuz you've still decided I'm going to take on debt to go you know to finish my education

so let's just be honest about it we're not mad at you we just want to be honest because we can't help you unless we're honest and the same thing with your income you guys have got to bring in more money because here's the thing if you choose to keep borrowing money that income better be on it cuz who's going to make the payments

right so what we want is to get you to a point where you're not borrowing money you're you're paying off your existing debt and you're using your income that is increasing over time in order to do that when does the baby do okay um

September okay right now we're in stor mode we got to save up cash because you guys have none of it and we need to make sure that we can cash flow all these medical expenses so we don't go further into debt in the meantime I'm looking into selling all these cars and getting whatever we can get with cash to get us by until then I want this baby to grow up in a debt-free home that is not filled with chaos

and I don't know that I can say that right now because it feels like your life is going to be chaos unless we make some drastic changes yeah and start paying your taxes quarterly estimated payments to the IRS there's no need for this to be a surprise every single April that we're going to be $5,000 in debt to the IRS we don't want that thanks for the call Malaysia

this is the Ramsey

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw let's face it guys taxes are confusing and uh they're no fun and if you buy into some of the tax service ads out there you'll believe you'll never get a grasp on taxes and you shouldn't even try or maybe even worse they suck you into offers that won't help you in with money but we think you deserve the truth around here so here's today's tax tip are you ready a tax refund is not a

bonus it's not sorry to burst your tax

bubble there Jade it's a refund meaning

it was your money all along and you earn that money you just happen to loan it to Uncle am interest free because of of your generosity wow so if you get a big tax refund sure you can have some fun with it and spend it and go on a vacation and buy stuff you don't need or

you could I don't know make sure that you advance your financial Journey there you go and uh apply it to your next baby step that's the smart thing to do so here's what you need to do adjust your paycheck withholdings if you keep getting these big refunds so this doesn't happen again you want to get as close to zero so people that are like I owed $7 I'm like that's a win celebrate yeah

I got a refund of $4 that's a win let's celebrate that means you're doing it right so if you haven't already filed make sure you work with a service you can trust if you've got a complicated tax situation get a ramsy trusted tax Pro on your side and if you're comfortable filing on your own with the software out there check out Ramsey smart tax it's not like

the other guys Jade it's low upfront pricing no hidden fees no agendas we're not going to bait and switch you at the end because you had an extra form right it's exactly what we say it's going to do do and it's exactly how much you think you were going to pay so go to ramsy solutions.com tax and we can help you figure out what situation is best for

you that's Rams solutions.com tax it's a

lot of money on the table for some people that is have you got your taxes done yet uh yeah there everything's turned in and just waiting to hear you know that that magic number did we make it did we do it that's right think about it though think about the tax returns you've gotten in the past and divide it by 12 and essentially that's the money that

you would receive back into your monthly flow which is so if you get a six grand refund that just means you need 500 bucks back in your life every month that the government hung on to that's a raise especially when everyone's feeling like money's tight I'm like but you're cheering about your refund I don't think people realize that it's their money all along yeah I think they think it's

the government giving them remind me that old commercial it's my money and I want it now yeah good job George that's J G Wentworth JG Wentworth I love still around good for them holding it down JG all right Matthew's up next in Raleigh North Carolina Matthew how can we help you today yeah I'm Matthew Davis I'm pleasure to talk to youall online um so

I'm 43 years old um I've been in working

in law enforcement for the last 20 years my wife I'm married and have a wife and two kids I have a 12-year-old daughter and a six-year-old daughter um I'm completely debt free and

have been for the last six months including my house that's awesome wow

um so my question is um with pinion

plans um I got about eight and a half years to I can fully retire um and my pension will be at

least $5,500 a month um at my current

Pace right now it'll probably be higher than that okay but um

so how does that factor

into my retirement like my 401k

because I'm currently saving um substantial amount of money because basically after I paid off all my debt I just kicked it in overdrive with savings and everything what's your nest egg um So currently I have my wife has 2

401K I have 135 in my 401k okay um the

Roth R we have she has 135 I have about

18 or uh excuse me 8,000 in my R okay um

we have 75,000 in just savings accounts

okay so is the question you said in eight years you'll be able to retire from law enforcement so that puts you at

51 yeah it should be 51 52 and what's

the plan after that when you stop law enforcement to go get another job okay so something that I don't have to work nights and weekends and uh that'll be more on my schedule but you know I plan to keep working till I'm at least 60 60 between 60 and 65 I what's your household used to earning um my wife currently makes about

93 I'm my base is 94 um I work substantial amount of extra

Duty um our last year we made 247,000

okay awesome and what's that Translate two monthly um I don't know that number um

so it's it varies because some months I

work more uh off duty than other months but roughly what's round number like 15 grand a month ends up in your bank account or what yeah that sounds about right okay so what's your we got a good Financial snapshot here so what's your what's your overarching question so my overarching question is like I feel like I have to keep working 80 hours a week in order to keep living the lifestyle that we're living um and it's not just like like to keep saving at the the rate

and I don't know if the the saving at the same rate that I'm saving at currently is completely necessary with the pinching plan that I do have or if

I'm just kind of working extra just to build a nest egg and I'm losing out on time with my family a little bit well I would crunch the numbers using you know we have an investment calculator on our website and go all right I got we have this much in our 401ks and IAS if we contribute this much per month even at a very conservative you know average return of let's say 8% how much would we have by 51 or 65 or whenever you plan to

keep working and that will help you get a full picture of pension plus this amount on investments if we pulled this percentage jof each year we could live off of this but it sounds like you guys have a pretty hefty lifestyle even with your Hefty how far are you from paying your home off you said it's paid off yeah my house it's paid off so I'm wondering where all this 15 grand is going every month um basically into savings like

we're putting like I'm putting 23,000 a year into my 401k my wife's putting 19,000 and her 401K okay we're maxing

out our Roth um and then 247 sounds like

a lot but when you have taxes that come out of that you know there's a lot of taxes that come involved that's true

what percent monthly expending is about 2500 a month just in bills like as far as cell phones groceries power taxes Insurance stuff like that have you looked can you tell me what percentage of your income is going every month towards investing my guess it's about 20 something percent it's about 28 to 30%

okay here's the thing um We call we would call that you're on baby step 7even and at

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when you're 51 so you're still going to have an income that's still money that you have the ability to put 15 plus percentage of a away in retirement and

you know A good rule of thumb I think that you should work with an investment professional But A good rule of thumb George is if you can live off the interest that your nest egg is generating plus your pension plus your Social Security obviously you could account for inflation at some point in there but that's a good place to start so if you retire and by the re time you retire you've got $700,000 you've been making a 10% rate of return you have to ask yourself okay that's $770,000 a year plus my pension

plus my wife's if she has anything and then plus your social security so that's just a very broad way to look at it but work with an investment professional and get yourself some peace of mind that's the key that sounds great don't freak out about it man you're on the right track it may be time to dial back a little bit and enjoy the fruits of your labor this is the Ramsey Show

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[Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George Campell joined by Jade warshaw and we've got a special guest on the debt free stage Jaden joins us from Frederick Maryland how are you Jaden I'm so good I'm so excited to be here thanks for making the trip yeah it's it's quite a trip I'm excited and you're here because you're Deb free and we're celebrating I am yes it's been a few months

so luckily I've had a little bit of an experience with it but yeah it it feels so good fresh it's still fresh it is still fresh we can hear it in your voice you're still excited know I'm so excited it's crazy to be here you know on the other side of it you look for so long and you just wait you work really hard and yeah it's here

and you made it through it's very difficult to get on the debt free stage uh we get thousands of applications a year and we we only take the best so you you are the best apparently my gosh I wasn't at first so

the reason made second was pretty intense yeah I made it the second time yeah wow well how much have you paid off I paid off just under $132,000 wow all student loans let's go that's

amazing how long did that take uh just under 15 months w wow okay what was your range of income during that time I started at $441,500 which was crazy and

almost all of them were private student loans through Sally May so I looked at um the amount that I was going to be paying and I was like oh my gosh there's no way I can do it um called the people who I knew had were good with money they had been through financial peace and yeah then eventually sorry I'm going through the whole story already but wow you start Inc up from 41 yes 112,000

that's an approximate yeah wow what did you study um I have a bachelor's degree

in international relations in Spanish and a minor in history so liberal arts I'm working on studying for my elet to go to law school for free so that is that's cool what are you doing now for work I'm a a legal assistant I do paralal work AES you're in the legal field that's exciting Good Field and you paid off all of those loans and 15 months are the numbers adding up for me okay so there is one small detail um so

I was living with my uncle and my aunt who had previously went through financial piece um and they actually gifted me $199,500 to pay off my Federal

loans which awesome amazing yeah they were more than helpful I can't even express how thankful I am that's awesome and the rest was just hustle and grind how'd you do it hle grind yeah I served I um went to work during the day my work I work for an intellectual property firm so it's a lot of over time if you get in applications that are Urgent um

and then so I was able to boost my income that way and then I just worked like crazy serving I worked six days a week at a restaurant and I doubled on weekends so it was a lot yeah wow so you're saying that if you work extra you can get out of debt yeah that's that's the key believe it or not that in a little self-discipline man tell everybody

because a lot of people think it's impossible to pay off student loans 132,000 at that I know I know I looked at it whenever I first started so I was watching the shows for a bit once I had talked to my my uncle to my Aunt Liz and um yeah I just I don't I couldn't find

anyone who was in the same boat as me who had so many private student loans my monthly minimums were almost $2,000 I know about that I know about that girl I know it's nice to hear your story yeah it was um it was really intense and single paying it off by myself and you know um I actually graduated a year early so all my friends were still in school which was great

I mean it's cool to go visit them and stuff but at the same time I was working all the time so I'm seeing them live their lives adult now yes I know it hit really hard so how old are you I'm 23 so 23 years old you

utilize the resources at your disposal your aunt and uncle they're like hey we're here for you you get two jobs two jobs work over yeah wow yeah push it to

six figures and that helped you knock this out quickly you were intense so what got you on this Ramsay plan um so I was at school um again yeah I was just I was so stressed I was shaking literally because I was so scared of that number 20 a month how was I going to afford rent and groceries and that and then I'm saving for lot you know like it's just impossible

so um I called them I knew that they had done a plan I didn't really know any of the details I've heard Dave's name before but that was about it yeah um yeah and I knew they were good with money gave them a call I said hey this is the situation I'm in and they were so helpful from yeah day one they we pretty much broke it down

I moved from Pittsburgh to uh yeah to Maryland Frederick and I just worked that was pretty much much it they were like you got this girl so so they just showed you the ramsy plan and you were like all right fine I'll do this yeah yeah you're smart they're good with money TR yeah so the question we get I

know the question I get all the time is how do you stay motivated and so I'm sure so many people want to know how Jaden did you stay motivated like you said all your friends are out here living living the best life like what did you do I think the main thing was just uh the two of them my friends honestly were really helpful too even though

they were living their lives they said they were like girl you are amazing you should totally do this they weren't doing it which is totally fine everyone moves at their own pace um but yeah they were so everyone was so nice and helpful and honestly I think a lot of it is just self-discipline like you really just have to I think when you see those numbers and you're terrified

and that's

your only option that's exactly what it is it's your only option I don't know I would have literally just you can't even bankrupt student loans so there's nothing else I could do and then you see the numbers working for you and you see the progress yes you get excited there's light at the end of the tunnel and it's not an oncoming train that's exciting yes initially I thought um whenever

I was going to undergrad I had always thought I was like this will be fine I'm going to go straight through to law school I'm going to come out attorneys make good money I'll be fine a not all attorneys make a ton of money B there I

life didn't happen as planned per usual you know this is should have been expected but it wasn't so wow so you said you had to you know make some sacrifices what were some of the biggest NOS you had to make on this journey as a young girl who's like I want to live my life and YOLO too yeah so my friends

went on spring break trips it sounds so silly saying it out loud now it's not though cuz it's life yeah it it really is they were going on trips to Nashville

and to the beach and my family was taking trips together and every single even if we went on a family trip and it was covered it was still that's money that's being taken away from paying towards the loans cuz you're not working during that time so and I would say other than that I think it was really challenging just not seeing I saw my aunt and uncle great a lot which was great

but you're not seeing your family like your my household family a lot which wow and you survived to tell the tale yeah I sure did here I am and now you'll be the one who's like guys want to go on this trip and they're like we're broke well now they'll be coming to you to figure out how to pay off their debt some of them already have been asking me about

it so it's been great yeah you're going to inspire a lot of people including Millions listening who are like I'm a young single girl with student loans I could be like Jaden yeah you can totally do this you just have to work really hard and it will be over yeah it will be over before you know it do you have some cheerleaders this journey my aunt and my uncle were really my biggest cheerleaders aming

they were seriously I could not have been more blessed but um my friends my family I people say that they have a lot of naysayers people calling you crazy I luckily did not run into that at all that's awesome yes yeah so it was amazing it was great you're you're different there are grow there are grown people who make more money than you do who they keep their loans around Forever Until

you know they start out low when they work themselves up to 132k and you just said not me no not me I couldn't

thank you thank you it's really exciting 23 making six figures bright future ahead of you we're so proud of you can you tell us quick how do you go to law school for free cuz that's your plan yeah you pred decided this is what's going to happen well yeah so initially that wasn't the plan luckily after going through everything absolutely um so I'm studying for my elsat right now

and if you get a high enough score on your LSAT basically it's about that there's other softer factors as well you have to take into account but um yeah just at you cuz

they want the person who's a brilliant Prodigy I wouldn't say they throw it at you but yeah yeah you definitely you can get into I feel like you're the type of person who will just do it because you're so focused you're so determined it's what got you out of debt and it's what's going to get you through law school debt free yeah you just have to be love

it very impressive very impressive we've got a every dollar premium for you a whole year and we're going to give you another one to gift to someone else to get their Journey started because we know getting a plan for every one of those dollars is the key spend less make more throw it at the debt do what you got to do and bada bing bada boom you'll become debt free like Jaden all right

the moment we've been waiting for it's Jaden from Frederick Maryland $132,000 in student loans paid off in 15

months making 41 all the way up to $2

with the side hustles and serving six days a week doubles on the weekends count it down Jaden let's hear a debt-free scream three two one I'm Deb

free yeah love that that's vbr in there yeah she had a little a little tone going on Jaden Jaden you need to get on the road I think that she is amazing I mean she's one of those people you just have a little pep in your step after hanging out with her she's attracts people who want to grow in life and she didn't have any naysayers cuz

she does surround herself with naysayers that's right she's got the right people around her you got to do the same thing America get the right inputs get the right people around you stay focused do whatever it takes whether you're 21 or 6 1 this plan works every time you work it this is the Ramsey

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Show [Music]

our scripture of the day comes from Psalms 373 and 4 trust in the Lord and

do good dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture take Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart Reba McIntyre says said be different stand out and work your butt off I like

that old Reba little Reba it worked out for her listen she never ages how does that happen I know we just saw a photo with uh Zach in the booth had a photo he ran into Reba somewhere she looks just like she did 20 years ago I don't know how that happens oh she's a Survivor we know that all right let's get to the phone lines Maxwell joins us all the way

in Australia let's do this thing what's going on Maxwell good morning guys how are you hi Jade and hi George hey thank you so much for calling we needed an accent today and this one's brilliant good day I've never heard another Aussie online so I thought let's be the first yeah people we don't get a ton of calls from a we get a lot of Canadians but I prefer

you I want your advice um because today

is a really good day for crypto and I also have a bit of gold okay about $45,000 crypto today and I have about

$4,000 Australian in gold which comes out to about 1.4 o I am in a little bit of debt I am paying off my debt um I do make about $75,000 a year but I just want to know what should I do with the gold should I maintain it until 2030

keep it in my bank and then trade it in or what what do you guys suggest with all my assets I do have a bit of a retirement fund but not much why did you get the gold in the first place what was the goal of that I inherited it actually oh very

cool okay so this is from

family yeah yeah okay my pop how much

debt do you have roughly 2 and a half thousand which

I paying off I'm working to pay it off very quickly yeah so that shouldn't be I mean that's like a paycheck for you isn't it well I wouldn't say that I've given myself a deadline which I'm I'm adhering to like I um I've set myself a timeline so it's like the 30th of April it has to all be paid off by okay so end of April

what kind of debt is it yeah so I've got um about 1,100 on a

credit card and I have another debt to my employer who brought me a work PC and

I'm just paying them back out of my um paychecks but and they haven't actually deducted anything yet so I still owe them roughly $1,500 but I'm I'm expecting to pay them back by tax time this year so the question is should you sell the gold the Bitcoin to get out of debt

faster well the Bitcoin I don't want to touch for now but for the gold do you guys think I should be selling it to get out of debt or should I it to 2030 no I I don't know why 2030 I would just sell it now sell as much as you need to to get out of debt and you also don't have an emergency fund it sounds like

no not really unfortunately so I'd sell all of the gold to be honest Maxwell even if you didn't have the debt the advice would be the same Yeah Yeah well yeah I mean because

I know Dave's not a big fan of the gold well it just it doesn't really make sense in any plan except for some sort of apocalyptic paranoia where gold becomes a bartering system and you know we've heard it's a hedge against inflation and when times get scary in the economy gold will go up in value but again in scary times no one's going out to buy gold to live their life they got to turn that into money so true so I don't know I'm just I

it's not I'm anti-gold it's fine if you want to own some for fun but I wouldn't use it as part of my investing plan you're better off investing in the stock market is there an equivalent with your job here we have the 401K do you have an equivalent of that in Australia that's kind of associated with your with your employer that goes into your

retirement no but since L into the show I've Googled it and you know as an Australian I can invest in that but I've heard Dave been talking about mutual funds so potentially if I do sell the go pay off the debt I can just tiip into a mutual fund because the return rate looks better than the stocks that I'm looking at I'm looking at like apple exactly yeah what you're doing with a mutual fund is you're just buying a basket of stocks which will help

you diversify and avoid you know being too risky having one stock if that company goes down or up in value all of that it's too volatile so if I were you I'm selling all the gold I'm getting rid of all the debt and I'm going to stockpile an emergency fund with all my future paychecks if you're gun-ho on keeping the crypto I can't talk you off that ledge

then you can hang on to it but build that emergency fund as fast as possible 3 to six months of your expenses so do you know how much money would be to run your household for one

month it I pay so much rent where I live

I pay like $1,000 every two weeks just on my rent so I need to kind of figure out a game plan CU I'm not in a stable if I was to lose my job today my emergency fund like I probably would be a bit screwed are youing why I need kind of a bit of um yes thank God okay I mean

you you could look into getting a roommate to help offset these costs right now if rent is crazy over there it's a studio I live like 600

meters from the Harbor Bridge so the studio is like super expensive but you know I'm definitely touching base with what I need to do to stay afloat I'm looking at maybe a different job different like maybe starting a business but is it necessary for you to live in such a high rent area you move further away could you find rent that's you know 1,200

bucks the thing is Sydney is crazy it's

crazy and I really do love the freedom of having my own apartment unfortunately it is so expensive but I'm looking at jobs that might take me back out to the Northern Territory where you don't have to pay rent you just earn like 100 and 100 plus k a year and all you know you're pretty much just taken care of and you have to just work work work but you still make absolute Bank I'm looking

probably doing that yeah yeah mining industry in many ways I think that there's a lot of differences between where you live versus where we live obviously but the baby steps I think remain the same for you and the idea of keeping $1,000 set aside by the time you get this debt paid off and then like George said working to save up that three to six months of expenses in your case I'd probably Veer towards 6 months

because you're the only one bringing in income and then after that if you can find a way to invest 15% of your income into mutual funds like what you talked about growth growth and income aggressive growth and international is what we say here and that's that's what

I would do and I think for you the same way if someone from the States called in and said hey you know I'm paying $2,000 in rent and it's too expensive we would tell them looks look someplace less expensive consider a roommate find other ways to bring in more income so in many ways you know the the equation is exactly the same even though some of particulars May a little different yeah even keeping your household expenses to

you know 25% of your take-home pay going towards the rent that's going to help you not get to you know sideways where you go oh my gosh no wonder I can't save for the future and do all these things 50% of my take-home pay is going to rent and so that's where I go I know you want you want the beauty of having a place to yourself

you want the beauty of living close to the city you want the beauty of this and that but at some point we have to make some sacrifices in a different direction if we want you know you can't can't have it all you can't have the cake and eat it too and so I think you've got to sit down and decide what's really important to you and uh luckily

you don't have much debt and this thing's going to be gone within a month or two but it's the next you know five years we have to look at to go is this

sustainable that's why I've come on board with the baby steps because it's so easy to to kind of be mean to yourself and push yourself but yeah if you just slow down like like you said Jade I I do want to get this debt and then I do want to um put that $1,000

away and then I do want to have that months back up because that stability having I've now since gaining crypto I've gained so much Financial understanding but also since watching the Ramsey Show like you guys have

helped a lot so thank you I I kind of feel like okay stop being mean and just slay down get their job done you know what I mean that's right that's right A lot of people they got to stop doing 17 things at once and just focus on one thing at a time get their ducks in a row build a foundation so even with you I'm not mad

if you want to put more money into crypto but I would wait until you've already put 15% into your your retirement plan then with any fund money beyond that go ahead and put it in crypto and uh I hope it works out for you so I think you're on a good path and regardless of where you are in the world I love that these steps are so simple yeah

they just work it's get out of debt stay out of debt you know have a fund for the emergencies for the future and sa for retirement and usually I might get a little B out of shape for somebody that has gold in crypto but with that accent I know he's mad at he's too dang

Charming he got me oh that was fun oh I love that these baby steps work everywhere that's great it's amazing how it works this has been the Ramsey Show I'm George camel that's Jade warshaw thank you to all the folks in the booth that kept the show afloat despite ourselves and you America thank you for listening until next time spend wisely save intentionally and give

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generously

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## 223. The Ramsey Show (Replay for May 27, 2024)


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brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

today live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey your host

number one best-selling author host of

The Rachel crw show and the smart money

happy hour co-host my daughter Rachel

Cruz is my co-host today open phones at

8825 5225 thank you for joining us America

we're so glad you're here Shane is in

Denver hi Shane what's up good afternoon

sir how you doing today better than we deserve how can we help course yeah hey

I was uh I'm just calling to uh my wife

and I uh we bought our house in 2021 uh

for about we bought it for 500,00

um we put 100 down on it uh we had about

100 in our in our savings account that

we kept in there too for our emergency fund uh we have now paid it down to

about two it's we owe about 280 on it as

of today very good um so in three years

we've uh we've put down another 115,000

into it you're killing it dude um we're

we're we have no debt our cars are paid

off we have no debt and we have still about a hundred in our saving account today as well um we are worried about

the house economy crashing here in the next six

to six months or so and our mortgage

rate is at

2.5% well let me stop you I'm sorry why

are you worried about the housing economy in Denver Colorado

crashing I don't know I I think my I

don't know my wife is she's uh she's

more of a real a realist than I am and

so I am I'm just kind of going with the

flow and we're just trying to I'm sorry

what does being a realist mean you mean a pessimist I I don't I guess so I don't

I'm not trying to talk down on her because oh I wouldn't either I'm just saying a there's there's a realist to

someone who observes facts there are no facts in the

marketplace that indicated housing crash

in Denver Colorado in the next 6 months

absolutely zero facts okay well that's

good to know so um and then also we're

trying to we're wanting to see if we should sell our house and then and

collect our reeven collect it's already at 700 no no okay you guys need to get

off the internet that's what I say too

yeah I'm sitting next to the Ramsey the

Ramsey family conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist I don't know when AT&T went out last month what is the

what's the Denver Housing conspiracy I missed this one you're up on all the conspirac have a Denver Airport you are close to the bunker that could happen if

it all goes down Shane that's your

greatest asset right now get at the same

time too my son we have a seven-year-old

son um and I travel a lot for work in

the state and we're trying to maybe move to the southern part of Colorado to

where I don't have to travel as much and

I can work my office down there but

please don't do that because the Denver

housing market is going to collapse in the six month next 6 months that should

not be that should not be one of the factors that drives your decision okay because it's

not it's not going to collapse okay okay

well and then percentage wise we didn't I didn't want to go get a new house and then pay a percentage on something with a higher interest rate at when we're at

2 going to have a higher interest rate for much longer because you're paying it off so fast yeah that's true I mean it

might be three or four years you carry it but you're not going to carry it for 30 years so it doesn't matter but make

your decisions out of a a glass half

full not out of

panic and really quit reading the

internet I'm serious okay there's some really dumb

dark people out there yeah that's that's

that's and I'm too busy with work my wife's a nurse practitioner in pych and

the last couple years she's been just a stay-at home mother with our kid during

the during these years and now my son's

getting to be where he can be in full-time school so she's about to go back to work too now so good we're going to have a double income yeah that'd be great and U you know but I mean py nurse

is a you know maybe she H oh my gosh

she's just seen a lot of crazy stuff no

pun intended right and so um you know it

can that can that can leave a mark on

you and so but I don't want her to live

in fear I don't meet people who

anticipate the end of the world who

Prosper none I just don't the people who who I

mean there's Preppers and then there's crazy Preppers okay prepper is one thing

but crazy prepper that's anticipating

the end of the world like I've got a friend who has gold bar I have a friend who has gold bars in his basement well and it's not it's just not right and let's keep talking about this though Shane because the housing market is a

point in our economy that a lot of people are panicked about and back you

know during Co when that when surg in 2021 we sat here at this desk and people

like it's a bubble it's a bubble it's bu

it's not supply and demand supply and demand we did the real estate yes we did the real estate you know hour and all of it so it is though Shane to your wife's

credit it is a it is a point of fear for

a lot of people because not to her credit to empathize with it I understand

how people are afraid but that doesn't mean that it's going it's sayal okay so

then give us the logic behind it because well the logic is there's a housing shortage still there's still three

buyers for every stinking house on the market and houses have gone up right now

today in most major markets homes that

are on the market are getting multiple offers but they're sitting on the they're sitting on it longer though it's not yeah like like eight days no it's

it's no but it's the the average days on the market has gone up eight days in the past 12 months just I my wife sent me

something the other day and it says new home sales Fall as mortgage rates weigh

down how well people I know when the mortgage rates did go it slowed it down though clicks on stuff unless it bleeds

that's a clickbait lead okay mortgage

housing starts fall as mortgage rates go

up which they did a lot of Builders slowed down there's not as many houses coming out of the ground you know what that does it means there's an even bigger shortage of inventory which makes your home even

that much more but house prices didn't

fall Builders slowed down building

because any want to get caught with specs if the market slowed down on them

but not if the market crashed

housing starts did drop but headlines always go everyone's

dying that's what the headlines always

say because that's what people click on is that stuff yeah so you know you know

yeah so look that's what I mean by don't read the internet okay and with the

election year coming up traditionally in

election years things slow down closer to the election too so you may see that happening traditionally interest rates go down because the sitting president

doesn't want to get unseated by a stinky

economy um we'll see yeah yeah we'll see but um

interest rates have come down a little bit in the last month and a half they've come down a full point and the market is

you know some areas the southern areas

of the country the grass is starting to get green people are coming out of their Winter Caves starting to buy houses and

the house market is heating back up it's a dirty little secret nobody's talking about it but um I I I've been

anecdotally involved in three or four deals lately where I'm watching and there's multiple offers coming in on these yeah and so I'm I'm getting ready

to put our home on the market and I was

just looking it's a different dollar amount but I mean I I was just looking at the you know what's the average days on the market the average days on the market what's the inventory inventory's

dried up I'm sitting pretty my timing is

excellent to put a house on the market

it's far from a crash quite the opposite

yeah you're going to see your homes go up in value in the next 12 months just write it down and say the old ball guy said it this is the Ramsey Show

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I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the

sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah in the middle of

all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible and so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reuping it because I'm like

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to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all

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[Music]

[Applause]

well there's one thing most of us agree

on on taxes suck this is the time of year which I

generally stay grouchy just in general

just because I think about how much

theft my government is involved

in can we talk about this real quick too

adds on to the text yeah um I don't know

why I it was kind of an epiphany I had

yesterday where I was like it is weird that like you could pay off your house you could be completely debt free but if

you you still have to the government to a degree still owns it like you got to pay your property taxes in a sense they

kind of own your career if you don't pay your taxes you get put in jail and then

car insurance you got a pay off car but you got to pay insurance like there's a level of of of this that you're like man

yeah it's not like some of these things never stop it's what it feels like yeah

for real I don't know I had that Epiphany the other day I was like man so you got two choices for claiming tax

deductions understanding the difference can save you big bucks literally over

seven out of 10 Americans get a tax refund that means seven out of 10 of You

Are doing math poorly there's a shock you know what cuz

I listen I'm old I know Santa Claus he's a friend of mine he never goes to Washington DC that money that's coming

to you is not from Santa Claus he has

nothing to do with it it's not a gift it's your money you sent too much money

to the freaking IRS they held it all

year at no interest and they send it back to you called a refund and you have a celebration like you hit the freaking Lottery all it was was a bad Christmas

account account you know you just saved

up money and then they send it back to you with as 0% interest with a stinking

IRS because you had too much taken out of your check stop it adjust your deductions to the proper amount of tax

withholding to where you don't owe any taxes and they don't give you a refund that's the proper thing to do now this

is what you got to do guys now if you're

doing your taxes right now you can take a standard deduction that's the easy option if you're single you make 65,000

a year the standard deduction knocks off close to 14,000 so you only pay taxes on

51,000 of your income and not even that

really that's if you're single so itemize your deductions if

you're going to do that it takes more work and you need a bunch of deductions right so if you want know to know more

about all this tax stuff there's two

things we'll do to help you one is if you have a very simple return you can

get the ramsy tax smart software smart

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and I'm not smart enough to say it and so the it's not very expensive and it's

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now if you have a complicated return like you have a small business a side hustle you bought or sold a house or whatever like that and you want to get a tax Pro we've got tons and tons of tax

Pros that are endorsed local providers

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there she is waving at us she was at the break getting her picture made she does taxes for you in Houston so good folks taking good care of you

that's the way to do it go to ramseys solutions.com and you can find out about

either one of those Noah is in

Sacramento hi Noah welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey Dave and Rachel huge fan thank

you for taking my call sure what's

up um I'm just I'm in a I got myself

into a a predicament I um I moved I was

living in Huntington Beach um around 2021 and then after covid and

stuff I lost my job and my family in

Sacramento said I can come live with them so that's where I've been the last three years um I got a good job well I

make about 60k um and but over the three years

being here um I've made some very bad

decisions um severe gambling addict I

think that me just having to pay my

parents a couple hundred a month like gave me two much uh not enough

responsibility and I was just blowing it left and right uh maxing out credit

cards long story short um now I'm here

um I told my parents everything and I

just told them that I have a game plan to move out of here by September and

just pay off everything I can until then

um I got a job

opportunity uh to go out and spray for

pests like Pest Control in Texas that is

guaranteed 30,000 for about 4 months of work until

September I'm wondering if I should quit

my current job and go do that and go pay

off all my debt but I'd come back with

no

job where in

Texas um wo i I think wo yeah you think

now I'm sure where it is okay um what

have you done about your what have you done about your severe gambling addiction haven't gambled what is it it's three or

four months it's been about all year um

but it was bad I I broke down how have you dealt with

it you just decideed you don't stop and

that's it you've got no help at all no I I it cost me um a relationship

and a bunch of stuff and it just I just realized I just had to stop no I haven't got like a therapist or anything but yeah I've been good deleted all my all

the websites okay there's two possibilities in this conversation one is you don't have a severe gambling addiction you were just stupid that's

one possibility and you decide to stop being stupid two is you have a severe

gambling addiction and if that's the case you have not done enough to fix this you would need to get into Gamblers Anonymous and you would need to be seeing a counselor okay okay how old are you okay

I'm 25 I just turned 25 in December okay

so I mean i' I've I've never had a

severe addiction but I have done stupid stuff so I can relate to one side of it

as a possibility I I don't know if this

is just immaturity and stupidity and you

can ask yourself that question I'm not calling you that I'm just saying your

actions were and and the way that you

just quit cold without any help at all kind of makes me think it was on that side rather than the addiction side but I'm not a therapist what do you what do you think was it is it a compulsion do

you know what I mean Noah like usually with an addiction there's a level of compulsion there it was it was it was

compulsion yes it was the dop it was

being bored I um all my I don't have any

friends in Utah I mean sorry in

Sacramento and um when I got here I got

a job right away but it was it's work from home I've been working from home for three years so I never met anybody

yeah and that's my bad I could join a club I could do stuff but I haven't and

so I've just kind of been working in my room and after I get off I'm in my room

gambling because I'm it's just it's just

been horrible yeah how much how much debt did you go into for it uh I've been

climbing myself out of it all year um I

also have a car payment because I just had to have the Lexus you guys know it

stupid um but I have a credit card with

1,800 on it um 4k on another card and

that's it for the credit cards and then I have a $10,000 car loan okay I also

owe the IRS

$1,300 um because I decided to go exempt

on some paychecks which was really dumb

yeah cuz you were gambling okay um

so well you hit your Rock Bottom though

and I think for a lot of people there is

that part of their story where it's just

you you lost everything your relationship all I mean it's just you got to a point you can't you couldn't continue to move forward until you had

those conversations right that to to

actually bring up what's been going on

um but I I'm with Dave on that that I I

would just for your own sake and I think that all of this is good for anybody just to do some work around who you are

how you got here what what are these things these compulsions where is it coming from I mean just doing some digging the problem into your story yeah

the problem with going to Waco is you go with you yeah so all all of these all of

these things are still there you're not

you're not getting away from

them totally I the The Good the good

thing is they're they're putting me in a hotel I know which is we were in a room

before by yourself that was dangerous

yeah not a good thing they're paying for

uh rent I have a work truck waiting for

me out there I know it sounds like a

good deal except that you're going with

you and I'm worried about you yeah I

would just say if you were to do this from a financial aspects I would put I

would put some parameters around it and I would I I mean things like like GA is

so great I mean the 12ep stuff is so

good you need to plug into gamblers or yes being in a weekly group I mean honestly it's like these practices that you put in front of continue to work on

the shame it continues to work on the

actual Act of it I mean I just I think it's I don't know so I I I without

having without being sure you're healed

or in a healing process just taking off

the Waco is a bad idea so if you if

you're engaged in some kind of healing process and Waco is part of that process

great but running away and you following

you is a bad plan this is the Ramsey

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

it's common sense for your dollars and

cents this is the ramsy

show proving that having common sense is

somewhat like having a superpower today

open phones atle 88255 5225 in the lobby

of Ramsey Solutions we have a wonderful thing called the debt free stage when

people stand on it they do their debt free screams we do the show on the glass

5 days a week from 1: to 4: every

afternoon you're welcome to stop by and join us here in Nashville Anthony and

Susan are on the debt free stage welcome

guys hey hi where do you guys live St

Louis mouri oh wow nice well welcome to

Nashville how much debt have you paid off we paid off 54,7 $73 very good and

how long did that take about eight months good for you nice and wow and

your range of income during that time yeah we went from making

$165,300 K yeah what do you all do for a

living so I'm a nurse she's a registered

nurse and I um I'm a Precision pler for

a defense company okay so what y'all do

just like work overtime out your ears

yeah or promotions or what 12 hours a

day s days a week y'all went nuts oh my

gosh what kind of debt was the 55,000 uh

it was the big bulk of it was student

loans and um also a Discover card and

then we had a lot of smaller stuff like

um Jewelry Loan um we had uh phones that

we owed money on we had a 401k loan no

we're like normal pretty normal yeah

yeah and normal sucks yeah it did so you

woke up and said this sucks y'all how long y'all been married 15 years so 14

years this has gone by yeah and what

happened a year ago what was the blow what was the blowup what was the ramsy connection well a year ago was about a

year of us really being stressed out with having a lot of debt um and we

would I remember we were like always

sitting in the hot tub that we of course

um got a loan for right finance and

complaining about like how the burden of

the debt and about what do we need to do

to get through it that is a great

picture yeah yeah it was pretty crazy

I'm sitting in my finance cot tub

whining about the debt

right yeah and that is so great um I I

actually um had an injury where I had to

um have a medical procedure done and I was out of work for three months oh and

that put the pinch on stuff it did yeah

so and you went oh this crap ain't working yeah we took a 401k loan out to

try to cover that span of of time and

then the credit card just took off um

because it wasn't enough um and so at

that point we knew that something had to change so at the point at okay so the

pressure built up yeah gave you a wakeup

call then what'd you do well we had your

book sitting on our Shelf for three months the total money or for a long time The Total Money Makeover um and we

started to read it probably three or four years prior cuz we we wanted to

change things but we didn't think we had a big enough problem when we dove in into it well um God put it on our hearts

at the beginning of last year that um we

could we could change and um the book

was staring Us in the face so picked it

up and and read it within a couple days

um started really listening to the

podcast and and watching you on YouTube

um and then we just we buckled down and

we started to create a budget we used the every dollar app um and that that

was the game changer was there one of you guys that was more like hardcore we

got to start we got to start more urgent about it or were were you both pretty

equal um I think he started things off

but then we were together wanting to get rid of the debt okay yes yes in that

process so what was the hardest part for

you guys for eight months I mean you're you're working insane hours and I mean

you're doing a lot you went crazy in a

great way yeah yeah for me it was like

he's working all the time so I'm taking care of everything at the house and the

kids um and the scariest thing for me

honestly was putting my 401k on hold cuz

we've I've always invested like 10% and

he was like we have to do this and I was like I don't know um but we did it and

that was the scariest thing and the weird thing is only eight months it didn't hurt no it didn't hurt we ended up doing the whole year and saving more money and then this year we started with

um a new investor and my 401k is like

doing better than ever before so okay

okay yeah funny how that works yeah we

hooked up with a smart Vestor Pro and he

really um sat down with us and explained

um what we were doing and you know like

you always say the reasons we we started to understand and she just pulled up a

statement the other day and and that since she started taking some of that advice the the changes have been pretty

insane so wow good for y'all so

encouraging well done well done

excellent all right now when people find

out you did this that you got completely out of DEA we were just bopping along 14 years of marriage and then boom we get a

year of hell and we get out of debt yeah

so that we don't have to live in this mess anymore when people ask how'd you

do that what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is I think for me um the big thing was

it you got to go to work you have to you

have to work hard you have to um and and

not only that you have to um get on the

same page and create a budget um for us

for the longest time she Susan always handled the finances I was like looking

back an ostrich with my head in the sand like she would come to me and say this is going on and I I didn't want to hear

it because it I felt like it stressed me

out and I needed to um grow as a man and

step up and and we needed to to lock

arms and come together and and create a

vision for for what we wanted uh the

money to to do so and every wife in

America just went touchdown I don't know if they said touch down they probably said amen amen

hallelujah uh that's so good so so good

and the bud this had to impact your all's marriage then Big Time y yeah like

Susan you're not carrying the whole way the stinking thing on your back right right it's been really awesome sitting down with him we sit down every week and do the budget do the bank book together

do everything together and you know it

was just me for like the longest time so that's just it's amazing so Anthony did it when you actually started leaning in and doing it did it stress you out as much as you thought it would back in the day when you said I don't want to look at that I get stressed um in the

beginning I wouldn't it might have stressed me out because I know for um a

while it was hard to learn how to be um

how to how to compromise um so there

were things that I saw that like that

money was going to places that I had no

idea and um so I had to learn that like

this this needs to go there like this isn't like frivolous or or or anything

like that like I cuz I my eyes were open

to where the money was going that

you weren't scared of hard work before but when you had a reason for your hard

work you went after it kicked it in overdrive yeah big time you kicked it hard well done guys well done I'm so

proud of you you're Heroes man than you you're Heroes and you have three kids yes all right let's bring them up and introduce them and give me their names

and ages please so our our oldest

daughter this is Courtney she's 14 hey

Courtney good good and then our our middle daughter is Sophia she's 12 mhm

then our youngest daughter Abigail is seven all right Miss Abigail all right

very cool and there's so many families

that are in the middle of this journey and I really than you guys just being here is such a beautiful picture that it's possible it's so possible well done

it's amazing we've got a one-year subscription for every dollar for you for the premium and another one as well

for you to give away to somebody and get them started on it way to go you guys

Your Heroes very proud of you those three beautiful girls lives have been changed by a a grown man a grown woman

doing what they're supposed to do well done you guys very cool Anthony and

Susan Courtney Sophia and Abby from St

Louis $55,000 paid off in eight months making

$1 165 and then went to work

266 count it down let's hear a debt free

Scream 3 2 1 we're Deb free

that is how that is done man I mean all

the questions we get I can't get my

husband involved I can't get my wife

involved that that guy just outlined

right there he just stepped up that was that was the most manly masculine thing I've heard in a

long time for that guy he owned every

bit of it yeah and stepped in there beautifully done and so many women were

hurt that that are running the household

on their own and it's a lonely place to be and so when you said sit down you end up talking about life you end up talking this is where the money's going what's going here on here and it's so much the

connection point is so huge so so huge

massive this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number

one bestselling author my co-host today

Emily is with us in Grand Rapids

Michigan hi Emily welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi how's it going good How can we

help good so I'm reaching out today I

feel like I'm a Ramy kid growing up your

theme song has been like a jingle in the household through the last 26 years of my life um I'm reaching out today I'm

kind of nervous not sure kind of what to do at this point we make just under

$100,000 a year my husband and I and he

is getting ready to hopefully go back to

school here in a couple weeks um just

kind of waiting on that official acceptance and we will be losing about

60% of our income um and we were running

numbers last night sitting down trying to evaluate things and I'm just not

sure what we do with such a large

reduction in our income based on what we

kind of saw are expenses are you guys able to cover the

basics on 60% or on 40% of your income

um barely um we do have two kids so we

are bearing the price of child care

times two um on the positive side he's

old enough now he's in his early 30s

where he's going to be going to school on pilgrims and scholarships so we don't have to necessarily work on like cash flowing his education um but I'm just

kind of concerned with how we're going to structure like our living expenses how long will he be in school

for roughly 8 to 13 months and it's a

full roughly seven days a week N9 to5

they said don't plan on working during

the program because it is such a vigorous course well that means that

means there childcare is no help at all

exactly okay so childcare stays there

and you're making 40K and you can live on that or not if

the answer is not you can't do it

I mean yeah I don't think you know and

we've looked at a couple different options you know my parents are getting ready to retire but I don't really want them spending their whole retirement watching their grandkids five days a week um well the eight to 10 months is

not their whole retirement true

true okay uh um I mean if they want to

do it that that's another thing I mean

they may not want to do it it may not be an option but um but I mean you you

what's he going to study

um electrical lineman so he wants to do

high power voltage okay and so he's making 60 now

he'll come out making 80 day one yeah I

think they said apprentices start roughly 45 to 50 an hour flat rate not

including any overtime you know so the

in car and his apprenticeship is like

only a couple of years and then he'll be making serious money yeah yeah is he

going to travel with it no I think he

plans to stay local um we bought our

house in 2020 for Fairly cheap at a super low interest rate so we're not really willing to give that up right now

okay because I mean if he's traveling it's a whole different world even in in

that in that world as you know H okay um

well here's the thing uh it feels like

the way you're describing this that you

first decided for him to do

this um and then tried to figure out if you

could afford it rather than the other way around

like you should have figured out if you could afford it before he decided to do it because his his primary job is to not

become a Highwire guy his primary job is

to feed his family yep and if he can't do that then

he can't do

this yep and was he talked about picking

up like a part-time job um or working

with his current employer to see if he can work on End hours um to kind of fill

those gaps but they said not to do that

yeah they didn't recommend it um until

they kind of get into like the core of

the program so and he's been working

towards this roughly about six years he's paid off roughly $7,000 in debt

because currently we we've done step one

we've been working on step two but as soon as he started to get the beginning of the acceptance it's just we kind of froze step step two for a minute to say

okay how much do you guys have left Emily for our debt yeah not including

our mortgage about 35,000 okay what

student loans um a vehicle and then we

put a new roof on our house after we purchased it how much do you owe on the

vehicle um I want to say roughly 5,000

okay is there a way to for him to delay

this like a year and you guys get in a

position where you pay off debt you can

get savings or like any level of traction if you had no debt and had your

emergency fund fully funded you could probably see your way through this a lot more to Rachel's Point yeah yeah and

that's something he's considered I just know the program he's currently in he's

you know put it off and talked about it and he's applied and so none of that

really matters if you have hungry

children when

yeah so and it off tough is the scary

this grownup land yeah you got to do

what you have to do to feed your family first and then you do this so you'd be

in a much better condition if you said

I'm going to intentionally spend this next year

getting our crap together so that when I do this it doesn't put my family in Jeopardy um cuz you're really calling

saying you can't figure out how you're doing this you keep saying we're barely going to make it but what you're really saying is is we can't make

it okay aren't

you well looking at the numbers I think

it's slightly doable but it's then again getting out of our comfort zone of our

current lifestyle and getting into that new lifestyle and I'm just concerned I

can handle you I mean I you can give up your comfort zone that's that's whoop you know that's nothing it's not comfort zone I'm concerned about it's

food yeah and you know the Necessities

will be met that's our biggest thing you

know I'm just worried about you know any additional expenses or things that come up how much is your house payment um a

thousand and your take home pays

3,300

yes and you're going to run the rest of

this household on 2,300 bucks a month

including $35,000 worth of debt

bull that's that's bull yeah that's what

yeah the numbers aren't crunching no

they're not crunching at all yeah so

they're crunching but it's not a good sound of crunch um yeah yeah I

um yeah I I I would wait Emily honestly

I I I don't I'm not a dream killer but I

love killing nightmares yeah and so um I don't want

to kill his dream but if his dream puts

his whole family you know you call me back eight months from now yeah he went but we're in foreclosure you know I I don't I'm not

going to sign you up for that and and have my stamp of approval I I want him

to go do this but I want him to do it in

such a way that he doesn't put all of you guys in Jeopardy and he he doesn't want to put you guys in Jeopardy but you

just you guys have not thought this through until last

night yep so we've been you know looking

at stuff and I you know I've pretty much

run our budget I mean he's not a spender

um it's not the question not I'm not

saying he's a bad guy I'm saying you

guys together have not thought this through until last night and you have to

Stephen cvy says one of the seven habits of highly effective people is they begin

with the end in mind and last night you

did that for the first time on this and

it took your breath away and that's why you called yeah cuz I just wasn't sure I

know to do so here here's what I'm going to tell you if I were in your shoes

here's what I would do my first choice

would be for him to wait a year Rachel's

suggestion is excellent and if it if it

takes 18 months or if it puts the whole thing in Jeopardy so be it I'll call

that God and so God put it in Jeopardy

because God says don't do things where

you can't feed your own

family those that don't take care of their own household first are worse than an unbeliever Bible okay so we we're you

know we're going to call it that now the

if but I am but I am convinced that if

he can get in there this round he can probably get in another round so that's

Choice one choice two is you guys look

around there and figure out how we're going to increase our income above your

base and Mom and Dad are going to commit

to keep the kids and drop your daycare bill because your daycare bill is probably what two grand a month yeah

honey two your daycare in your house and

you don't have any money left for food I just did that yeah so so and we're looking at

child care Alternatives and you're reaching out trying to find low is your

is your child care two grand a month

yeah plus a th000 3,000 yeah your take

home's 3,300 your budget's not tight

it's impossible you cannot go forward unless

you adjust something it's

fantasy okay you don't have any yeah

that that's just dingding so adjust the

child care sell a car

take six jobs he works on the side even though

he's not supposed to and for eight months you grind it out like that and for eight months and you pay a price for him to get to be this I'm okay with paying a price to win but I'm not okay

paying a price knowing I'm going to lose

that's a bad idea it's what it's one life event away from to your point foreclosure a car no they can't even make it it's not it's not it's one month away well yes you can't even get to the

food budget here this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free today

live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships I'm Dave Ramsey your host

thank you for joining us America open

phones at

88255 225 Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality

number one bestselling author is my co-host today and we're happy to talk to

you and America about your life and your

money so when I wrote the first book I

ever wrote Financial Peace in

1994 raise your hand if you weren't born

yet okay um they did a

love yeah when I wrote that book I

proposed a concept in our seminars that we were

doing in those days and in it was a

different world in 1994 sure um and the

90s are back a little bit I proposed a

concept and I got

so much one of the first times I got

just showered in hate oh I can't wait it

was fabulous and so the concept was this

and I don't remember the exact numbers

but they were a whole lot lower than they are today so I'll make up some

numbers that would be similar to what they probably were I said something like

if a lady is making $30,000 a year at

her job she has two kids and daycare is

$11,000 a month and she buys clothing

professional clothing to go to that job

and she dry cleans the professional because in the '90s you were wearing suits to go to that job for a lot of places well they weren yeah they weren't wearing sweatpants to work in those days

or your pajamas um and so it's a different world

like I said and if she were and if

because she was working she didn't prepare meals from scratch at home

because time and fatigue the family

would go out to eat more and they would spend from scratch but just meaning like

spend more on pre-prepared things or

going out to eat yeah because of fatigue ordering pizza because I'm tired I don't feel like cooking or the husband is choosing not to cook yes going well whatever I'm just saying and so uh 1994

I know this is the so just hang with me here but uh and I propose that if you

add all of these things up making

$28,000 a year paying $1,000 a month for

child care these other things added in

after taxes come out and gasoline to

drive to said job and wear and tear on

the car to drive to said job when you

take all of those things out she's probably losing money

working and it might be cheaper net net

net net net to stay home with the kids

if she wants to I didn't say she should

be at home barefoot and pregnant I did not say that I said if she chooses to

and wants to be at home now people said

I said a lot of things I didn't say but that's exactly what I said but even on the premise that she can't afford she's

not making enough to justify working yes

or he's with the expenses with the expenses at that time and I caught hell

for suggesting that net of daycare net

of all these other expenses she might not be making anything as you know

because I did some math and Dad blame if I didn't get

blamed for the other side of that not

that but the other way of what of not

understanding the cost of daycare and that you can't afford to work because of the cost of daycare the stinking Wall Street Journal some woman writes an article trash in me recently not4 just

the other day just the other day said I said on the air that that women that

they can't that that daycare is is

ridiculous and so you just need to shut

up and go to work I didn't say that at all I've said quite the opposite since

199 freaking 4 and I get I don't if

you're going to hate me hate me for the right thing okay if you're going to

about something Dave said pick out

something he actually said okay great

but I think they clipped I think there was a clip of you saying that's a ridiculous amount to pay for child care and they clipped that not knowing the whole call well that of course because

it's the freaking media I know but that's some idiot on Tik Tok guy yes

that specific guy was paying he was but

he was paying like $28,000 for one kid

yeah that is dumb well I don't yes

average right now yes average right now is 16,000 okay so depending on where you

are if you're in New York City and Manhattan that is going to look difference no that guy was calling in he was trying to put his kid in I don't remember telling no I don't know it was

Gucci daycare he was signing up for he

his upper lip was sunburned his nose was

in the air we don't know that yes I do

no we don't no we don't but I am not I

was I'm on quite the other side of what I got blamed for which is what I'm upset for I I did not I mean all I'm talking

about that particular instance it's like somebody calling up and going I'm paying

$46,000 a year for my child to attend a

private elementary school and I make

$60,000 a year what do you think of that

I think you're a that's what I think of that okay you can't do math

your kids shouldn't be in a school that fancy okay cuz you're just stuck up

that's all that is and it that's what

this guy was it had nothing to do with

the actual cost of daycare remember I think I think the thing is it is such a

it's such a hard subject because unlike

94 you fast forward to today where it is

it's it's like child care it's I think it's ludic 30 to almost 40% in some

areas since like 2019 like it really

going up faster than tuition I I I know

that yeah for working moms so and parents no it's not different than 94 so the exact same thing is true some people

now with the cost of daycare aren't making money that's right after after

toe so I'm still saying the same thing

yes no I know I know but now I'm getting hated for saying the other thing that I didn't say I know but I think too the

conversation of a household income because so many families are dual income

and a lot of families are dual income

and make on average right like in that

in that 60 70 range per year yep and

then in order to pay the mortgage and

have the food I mean like there is and these days Mama might be making more than daddy Not Unusual at all oh yeah

that's the other option is that that the

that the spous who is the one that goes

home I don't care that's not the point it's a math thing is all I'm looking at

and the problem is though again people

are are getting to this place now because it's risen so quickly that it

that they're having to look now at exactly what you're saying at the options of like oh my gosh and I've known some moms that they're like I got to go home like I have three kids under

the age of five and we can't literally

can't afford it or you make you make $4,000 a year today and you have three kids under the age of five in daycare you're not making money I know that's that 1994 example

in24 right2 I know and there's some other

there's some you know other ways you can

look at it I mean there's you got to find an alternative Child Care situation

if you're going to work in that situation yes yes because because you're

not actually making money yep you're

working and going backwards and what's hard is for the single mom too who doesn't oh it's almost impossible yeah who almost doesn't even have that but here's the other thing the 16,000 is the

average nationally this includes

expensive markets and expensive markets

and it includes expensive dayc carees and inexpensive dayc carees and so

there's a lot of ways to skin the cat

there's a lot of ways to take care of the kids but it is a valid thing to sit

and look at it as a family and make and

make AIS values yes but people don't use

they they get emotional because it's a

the issue is their children and you want

brains melt down and they quit doing

math because as a mom with little kids who works you go you go through some of these places you're like I don't want to I don't feel comfortable sending my kid here too right so there's a I know I

know but it's the idea that it's it's a

it's a hard subject for a lot of people it is hard it is

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okay so we left everyone with we're not going to keep the rant going how how hard that subject is in life yeah how

high Child Care is and how hard it is

yes it is high and it is hard the trick

is to not be

irrational and justify stupid

numbers because you love your

children love of your children does not

make math go away

math still will Roost it'll still come

home so we want to help you face this

high cost and if you go to Ramsey

solutions.com we have a Blog there

called 13 ways to afford the high cost

of child care almost like everyone at

Ramsey knows that child care I know is

high yes just in case some of you on Tik

Tok weren't listening were aware that

childcare cost is high but that does not

mean that you suddenly get a pass on

math the cost of Real Estate in

Manhattan is high but some of you can't

afford to live there because of

math it's that simple the cost of real

estate in Tokyo is high and some of you

can't afford to live there because of

math so we'll help you with this and but

I'm not going to help you with denial or

the system's broken so I'm going to

ignore math no that's not what you we're

not going to go down that alley no but there are some there are some different ways creative ways to kind of look at it and one of the options is what we talked about in the last segment was maybe one

one uh parent decides to stay home right

like maybe it gets to a point that a valid option yeah and here's the interesting thing I'll add one more thing I said we weren't going to extend the rant but now we are okay there are

parents out there right now uh with this

thing you and I have talked about this at length mom guilt if you work you're

guilty because you're not home if you're home you feel guilty because you're not working moms can't win yep they got

guilt either way society and on heaps it

on them they Heap it on themselves if

I'm at work I feel guilty because I'm not home with the kids if I'm at home with the kids I feel guilty because I'm not using my degree and I'm not out making money and so you just can't get

away from it guys don't struggle from this Mo by and large by and large the mom guilt is the mom guilt is a very real thing so in the midst of that

statement there are ladies who really

would prefer to be at home with their children

sure yeah and have never sat down and done the math that says you should be MH

and so this sets you free cuz stay at home mom I want to set you free if that's you yes if you if you're a professional lady Rachel's in the workplace my other daughter works if

you're a professional lady in the workplace I'm not trying we're not trying to say you should go home or you're not a good mom we're not saying that at all we're saying if that's your

choice to be at home but you feel like

you should the family needs money for working and yet you're not netting anything I'm this math is going to give

you permission to go home yes there's a

value a dollar value for stay-at-home moms the amount of work that they do no

question for sure Ashley in Savannah

Georgia hi Ashley welcome to the ramsy show he y'all hey what's

up well um to continue off of what y'all

are talking about how did my husband and

I pay off debt rebuild our savings and

potentially have another baby while living in the world where expenses keep

increasing like daycare and

rent what do youall make what's household income we both make 80,000

okay so you make

160 yeah you make

$160,000 well our joint that would be

how much debt do you guys have um so I have so we are renting uh

2300 um and then obviously like power

and all that stuff how much do you ow your cars just debt yeah we have we have

no uh car notes car loans my car is paid

off but she is reaching 200,000 miles

and my husband has an old Blazer that we

just can't rely on if our car what debt

do you guys have so I have two credit

cards uh one is 3700 that I'm making

minimum payments on unfortunately one

was charged off recently my other card

which is about 15 and I'm pretty sure there's some

medical debt for around how long have

you all been making 160,000 and

overspending uh the 160 just happened

this year what were you making in the other years uh well Co really rocked us uh

60-day fur low turned into over a year

um and then I took a job for 50,000 um

and I just got back up to

80 what was your husband

making um he's been slowly uh

progressing as well so um probably about

60 and just got to 80 as well okay so y

were around that 100 mark for a while so

here's what's happened okay you went

through a downturn in your incomes and you slowly progressed back

to and Beyond where you were before and

you faster than your income went up your

spending went up cuz you didn't give me anywhere

nothing you've given me so far tells us where $160,000 is going I have no idea

why you should be this broke how in the world you have a $3,000

credit card charged off making 160 means

you're out of control disorganized and

chaotic in your house so the credit card I haven't put

anything on a credit card in years this is like really but why don't you just pay it off you make $160 Grand it's

$3,000 cuz you didn't have any money cuz

all your money is going to restaurant

and trips you can't afford we're not

eating out we're not going on trips I'm not getting my nails done I haven't got my hair seriously where's your money

going seriously where's all your money

going then if you're in control and you

have a budget laid out where's your 160,000 going cuz it's not going to rent

you don't have that much rent it's not going to debt 2,300 she told us there's

no your rent's low you don't have any

debt where's your money

going our all of our money goes to bills

what bills you don't have any

bills this is hilarious yeah what bills

do you have don't yell at her don't what bills

do you

have hello for help what I'm sorry what

bills do you have all of our bills combined are

$4,000 a month okay that's 2,300 for

rent what's the other 1,700 12250 for

dayare okay which keeps going up year

over year yeah it does

okay and then power electricity all the

basic minimum gas okay so you said did

you say $4,000 a month did I hear you right correct that's $48,000 a

year and then plus child care no no no

that included childcare did it the $4,000 included $150 $1,250 for child

care so that's $48,000 out of 160 so

somewhere I'm still missing $102,000

okay somewhere I'm still missing almost

$100,000 that's what I'm talking about

this is recent and then any money that we have left over is going into the snowball method how much is left over

per month that you guys

have tax 500 I'm sorry 500 we're just

dumping that into savings

500 okay you're something's really

really really really off in your math

because you gave me $48,000 worth of

debt $500 is $6,000 that's $54,000 out

of 160 I'm still over $100,000 is

missing not counting taxes you following this are you looking

at a yearly number like like monthly week $500 a month is

$6,000 a year on Ashley how much do you

guys how much you how much hits your checking account every month in income

wise after taxes what are you guys bringing home now I get 1,800 every two

weeks and what is that's that's around the same thing

as well okay that's not $160,000 a

year before

taxes yeah no how much you got you got

money going in your 401k no okay you have way too much

withholding

okay you guys need to okay I'll tell you

what hold on here's what we're going to do I can't break this cuz I can't break

her so um you I'm going to I'm going to

hook you up with one of our financial counselors actually who can sit down and calmly go through this and try to explain it to you because I can't

nothing you're saying makes sense well 60 these numbers are 50

60,000 off that she's just so far off

it's unbelievable and so there's

something else going on with your math here I don't know where your money's going you you don't know where your money's going all you figured out is is

that it's not working um and so you guys

have got to sit down cuz

$160,000 a year is not 1,800 bucks every

two weeks times

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[Music]

[Laughter] [Music]

[Applause] [Music] Rachel Cruz ramsy personality is my

co-host today our event season is in

full swing we have three events coming

up where you can experience the ramsy teachings live and in person with

thousands of people just like you our

next one is The Total Money Makeover

weekend event Rachel and me Dr delone

Ken Coleman Jade George all of us will

be speaking at this two-day ultimate

motivator event to get fired up and wired up to live the life you've always wanted tell every dollar what to do make

every dollar behave and learn to win

with money get out of debt become wealthy be outrageously generous we're going to show you how to do every bit of it May 10th and 11th here on our campus

uh we're already half sold out so if you

want to come you need to get your tickets immediately then on May 21st and

22nd I'm going to be doing a virtual

event with George camel helping me as we

unpack not only the basics of investing

but the Dave Ramsey's investing Essentials something I've never done before I'm going to open my playbook my personal Playbook on real estate I own

several hundred million dollars worth and I'll show you what I've done and how I've done it and it's not a Tik Tock video it's not easy but I can show you

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then Rachel and Dr John delone will be doing the money and marriage getaway October 24th and 26 through the 26th

that is here on our campus as well spend

a weekend away with your spouse in Nashville and with Dr John delone and

Rachel Cruz uh real life

answers to Real Marriage questions gets

a little dicey in there sometimes I'm just saying but uh you're going to love the event you're going to learn a lot it's pretty incredible so any of these three things you can get at ramsy solutions.com

events and they all three are likely to

be sell outs well before so get your

tickets quickly on the debt-free stage

in the ramsy solutions headquarters

Lobby is Tyler and Jesse hey guys how

are you good how are you better than I

deserve man tell me where do you guys live Worcester Ohio cool what's that in

here uh akan akan all right cool and how

much debt have you guys paid 200

$189,000 wo how long did that take uh 44

months good for you and your range of income uh we started at 116 and now we

make 169 good what do you guys do for a

living uh I'm a firefighter and I'm a

I'm a physical therapist very cool awesome very cool what was the 289 what

kind of debt uh it was two car loans and

then most of it was a student loan wow

okay nice y'all good for you guys how

long y'all been married four years today

oh happy anniversary so they said it in unison

that was perfect yeah so great very cool

you guys so uh somebody comes out with a

bunch of student loans maybe Physical

Therapy could be I don't know a doctor's

possible doing a PT degree yeah and you

guys get married and you go okay cleanup

time tell me how that happened and what the conversation sounded like how'd you plug into Ramsey so I grew up uh my

parents did the Dave Ramsey um program

the baby steps and so when I graduated

in 2017 with my doctor's degree I asked

my dad I'm like what do I do about this and he said uh you need to read you know Total Money Money Makeover and you need

to get signed up for FPU it'll be the

best money you've ever spent and so I went to FPU a year before meeting Tyler

and then I met Tyler at work we started dating the next year we started talking

about marriage and I said okay I want

you to go through this course with me you need to know what comes with me

yes that's right that's right yeah so we

had the we had the talk the money talk

how long had you been dating before you disclose hundreds of thousands of student loan debt uh two months yeah get

this out of the way all right just see if he's a keeper or not right yeah so

great oh my gosh you guys okay so four four years you've you've been doing this

so pretty much since you've been married you guys have been on this okay so how hard was that because I feel like

especially when you have a new event like whether it's marriage or a baby or you graduate from college like whatever it is you kind of want to jump into a new season and just enjoy life so how

how hard was it being newlyweds knowing

like we're buckling down and doing this it it was rough I mean we got married uh

during the pandemic oh my gosh yeah and

so um my income actually reduced you got

married at the height of the pandemic

like about the time the quarantine started yeah we were on shutdown

whenever we got married yeah this is like this is mar this is the end of March yeah oh my gosh and it's your anniversary yeah whoa

okay so yeah so the whole pandemic you guys were doing this then yeah mhm wow

yeah trying to my income reduced by half

because my outpatient hours were reduced

um so it's just amazing because um I

actually found other opportunities um screening in the Ed on third shift um

going and you know doing cash based physical therapy in people's homes that didn't want to go you know out in the community um yeah God really showed up

yeah she got after it too wow you were

good isn't it good for y'all amazing wow

so you get married right at the quarantine and then you go wide open

into this thing uh so what was the

hardest part of the whole journey uh I

think the hardest part was just not playing the comparison game and walking

our own path you know we're at an age

right now where everybody in our life is

making different milestones and you know

we just had to celebrate ours you know through the dead Snowball the way it's

set up you can still celebrate while you're paying off your debt so yeah yeah

what do you think yeah yeah just um just

got to shut up and do it I mean you just

you know um I think what got me through was that I was hearing the de free screams of all these other people um who

you know lost a spouse or you know um

you know just different things hard life stuff during and you know like okay they

can do it what's my excuse what's our

excuse how much did you guys work would you say what was like at the peak how many hours a week was like the oh gosh

we we were like animals um we we we

would go whole weeks without seeing each other CU we work opposite schedules um

with my job I think I sometimes was like somewhere around 60 65 hours in a week

oh my gosh y yeah as a fireman I could

go upwards of 100 hours a week but you

know sometimes we get to sleep but not always it's not guaranteed by any stretch okay so besides work and income

what's the other part of this that you would tell somebody yeah the key's the

key what's the thing the number one thing to get out of debt oh um just just

take every opportunity you can to increase your income I know we did um we

just went after every certification we're at work anyways we're spending the hours anyways let's just do that too let's try to get you know our time worth

more um and then also to at home um just

making meals at home packing lunches um

we made our own laundry detergent I mean

just you know all these little things

that really add up yes and and just to

add on to that you know we're lucky

enough that the phase of life we're in we don't have children yet anything like

that so we took this time for a lot of

professional development like our life wasn't on hold really because we've

developed a lot so that's aw guys yeah

for sure for sure your incomes have increased permanently because of that so

so nice and no payments you're Heroes

well done so the first four years you worked your tail end off for four years you're 100% de free was it worth it yes oh yeah

yes it's amazing to walk into work and

know that we have the ball now this you

know every every you know dollar goes

towards our goals it's we're not paying some Bank you know it's amazing I that's

it yeah just put me in coach that's

right I love it well done well done so

proud of y'all who was cheering your own about your Dad yep yep our family our

friends um we definitely talked to people who gone through the steps and we're successful with it yeah yeah and

it's funny like you know at work I I

almost have like a second family we

brought some people around you know and they were cheering us on at the end too so it was awesome yeah that's great very

cool so great you guys well done guys

home run touchdown way to go Heroes hey

we've got a uh every dollar subscription

for you for the premium you probably already using it and that'll extend it for you and another one for you to give away for somebody that can't believe you really did this I'm I'm impressed with these numbers very hard work very hard

work she's not kidding lots and lots of hours she said it like six times but she's exactly right oh yeah really happened really happened all right it's

Tyler and Jesse from akan Ohio 289,000

paid off in 44 months making 116 to 169

count it down let's hear a debt free

Scream 3 2 1 we're dead free

yeah wo

way to go you guys and now their debt free scream is

permanently enshrined in the YouTube Hall of Fame to encourage other people

who are in the middle of their hard

journey telling you it's worth it this

is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

open phones this hour I'm Dave Ramsey your host thank you for joining us

today's question comes from Anonymous oh

I haven't heard from Anonymous in a while he used to write me all the

time usually doesn't have nice things to

say but let's see what Anonymous in Arkansas says it says how do you learn

discipline I spend so much of my income

on going out to eat I work overnights at

Walmart and make $20 an hour but my bank

account always is a Ras to zero I borrow

money from my paycheck before I get it

and use apps like Dave yeah there is one

to cash oh to get cash advance is it

really Named Dave yeah they named it after they did that on purpose oh no Dave oh gosh and Char app $5 for an

instant deposit I feel like I can't get

out of this $3,000 credit card hole that

I'm in I also owe the IRS around

$4,000 if I was disciplined with my

money I wouldn't be in the botom 27 I

need to get my stuff together

wow Anonymous that is

a

very I I think you have your stuff

together um my dad used to tell me that

when you recognize a problem 90% of the

problem is solved and so I think you're on a really

really good path here um I did the same

thing Anonymous um during the fouchy

pandemic I ate every d nut in a 50 m

radius and I looked down and there was a

thing growing on the front of me it looked like a belly it was ridiculous

there's still a little of it left but I haven't got rid of all of it but I got but I I lo I I said you know Dave you're

a mess Dave you're an idiot Dave you're

out of control if you would not eat everything

in sight you would not be the size of an elephant da an idiot you're making idiot

choices I was doing idiot stuff who you

are well I'm just saying not anid I did

not have an identity crisis never fear but but I mean the point is is that I look down just like you did and I said what's what I'm doing is not working mhm

I'm getting negative results for negative behavior I've got to change my

behavior that's a huge thing and I did I

hadn't had a donut since the fouy pandemic so and I lost 37 pounds and

I've walked every day for, 1473 days as

of this morning at least a mile up to five to seven miles in most days so uh

yeah I I get it I understand but what

what I what did I do there to change my

behav my my negative behaviors that were giving me negative results was I I said

what has to be true what has to change

well it's you know weight loss is a lot

like money it's a fairly simple concept

um you eat

less there it

is and you exercise more there it is and

so with money what are we going to do we're going to make more so you need to

probably be working more

and maybe even at a different place I don't know you might make more you might be able to find a better job and then

the second thing Anonymous is I would be

giving the every dollar app you can

download it for free if you want the

upgrade it's just a few dollars and it connects to your bank but that's the

world's best budgeting app and what the

budget does is it's making every one of

your dollars behave before you get

them that's the trick to budgeting mhm

is you say before it

occurs before the money comes into my

hand I'm going to already have spent it

on paper on purpose on the app or

whatever Y and that will give you

control then the discipline will come

from you saying I don't want to live

like this anymore so I'm going to live

like that I'm going to be the guy that

wrote this stuff down I'm going to be the guy that doesn't eat a donut I'm going to be the guy that doesn't S on his butt and watch Netflix he's going to get up and go walk four miles I'm going

to be the guy that does something different because I want a different result but you've got something to measure it against and in my case it was

the scales in your case it's some debt

and and you're written down budget will

give you tremendous motivation if you

really mean it and I'll be honest I've been doing this 32 years reading this

email from you Anonymous I think you

really mean it yeah and you see things

like I spend so much of my income on going out to eat so like the planning with your money you plan you plan food

though I mean like you know what I mean it's and just to say okay I'm going to meal plan on Sunday night and I'm going to know what I'm going to eat for breakfast Lun and dinner every single day and it's not going to be great food it's going to be cheap and it's going to be quick but I'm going to do that want

to go out for a drink I can't afford to yep and so it is my buddies want to go out to eat I can't afford to and it's like a muscle it takes time it takes

time to build it and so there's going to be but Anonymous that couple that was just up here that was making $170,000 a

year they they made their lunch and took

it to work mhm hello and they paid off $289,000 in

debt and change is hard though and I think like oh it is hard well and we laugh at you sometimes or I laugh at you

sometimes because you're like change just change you do this like

clapping thing and I'm like but it but here's the deal it's it it is it is

difficult because there is a norm that you set in it's a human experience of like what I know is normal is

comfortable even though I know it's wrong and that change it's going that's

almost the scarier step it's almost the scarier step to say I'm going that's why I say baby step one sometimes the hardest because like I'm engaging in something new and so you know in a sense

changing to do something that feels hard

is hard yes but change is not

necessarily hard if you change from uh

driving a horrible car to driving a great car that's not hard yeah that's fair I guess so that's a good change so

that's not a hard change okay if you change from living in a dump to moving into a million dollar house that's not a hard change change is easy when it's but

and so what you feel benefit it's when the change has sacrif what you got to do is you have to say is this change is this hard change taking me to a better place then I got to then I got to work my way through it you know is it worth it it's like the bumper sticker when I'm

you know I'm fat from the donuts I see this bumper sticker and it says nothing tastes as good as it is nothing tastes

as good as it feels to be thin and so don't put it in your mouth

you know it's that kind of thing you cannot run a Big M and so you can't do enough exercise to eat Big Macs it doesn't work so um

that's it and so these things you you

know you get okay I'm going to I'm going to live like no one else so that later I

can live and give like no one else no discipline seems Pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness

and so instead of sitting down and looking at my numbers and going

well this can't be

done I you know there's no way instead I

start looking at my numbers and go what has to change what must be different

okay we're not eating out we're going to have a written game plan we're going to look at increasing our income and when

you align yourself to all of those

because the belief that you're getting

to that that those are going to take you to a better place you'll instantly be

motivated no one exercises well I won't

say that most people don't exercise

because it's

fun some of you do but you're sick but

most people exercise because it's good for for you but you feel good though you

happy you get a HB you get high off when you're done

name that movie but I'm just saying it's not because it's like woohoo you know

and so there's I mean yesterday morning

it was raining I did not want to walk it

was not fun I did not want to walk what

I wanted was the result more than I

wanted the action mhm yeah I can't tell

you that was fun you should lift yeah I

should do something but yeah but I'm but

at least I did that so you could do

you're trying to find something I can do indoors I know but anyway the so uh

anyway the point being anonymous I

really think you're on to something I

really think there's good things are going to come to your life uh because

you you know discipline no discipline

seems Pleasant at the time his question

was how do you learn discipline but it

yields a harvest of righteousness the way you focus on it is you focus on the

Harvest of what you're going to get but there's also the day in and day out

consistency that it just becomes a part of who you are James CLA talks about how new habits you you just take on a new identity I am a person that Fs in the

blank I am not a person that borrows money yep I am a person that does not have credit cards I'm a person who takes their lunch to work that is who I am right I mean like it's like these new identity markers I'm a person with four

pieces of plastic in my pocket two debit

cards my driver license my handgun carry

permit these are the only plastic I own

I don't have any other plastic

that's the person that I am and you know

somebody says well you need to borrow money to do that well I can't do that cuz I I I don't I'm a person that

doesn't borrow money MH and so you're a

person that has discipline you're a person that works extra you're a person

that doesn't eat out when they're broke

you're a person that doesn't go to happy hour when you should be working overtime

you're a person you know and that you you're right that James Clear change of identity and atomic habits is a big deal

Anonymous I think this is a fabulous question and I'm really encouraged for

you this is the Ramsey Show

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love

and create actual amazing relationships

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number

one bestselling author and co-host of

the super popular smart money happy hour

on the Ramsey networks is my co-host

today also my daughter phone number 8825

5225 Victoria starts this hour in

Portland Oregon hey Victoria what's up

yeah hey daav and Rachel thanks so much for taking my call sure how can we help

yeah my fiance and I are getting married

in July uh just this week we started

your Financial Peace University and

within the last month we've been meeting

weekly to go over our personal budget through the every dollar app uh just uh

for personal Deb my fiance has about 4,000 left on his student loans that should be paid off in two months cool my

fian my fiance is a contractor he owns a

construction company uh he brings home

about not brings home but his salary is about 65 annually I work full-time I

have a side business that I recently started with my employer and I bring

home the same announce you guys are doing great congratulations thank you my question is

how should we approach business

debt who has business

debt uh we both do so my fiance has

business debt he has about 180 and then in my what did he buy on a

lot of equipment so he has an excavator

two trucks dump trailer a loan and a

credit card and there may there may be

another loan okay and what about you

calling yeah so for me mine mine might

be a little bit unique um my business

partner who is my employer he uh has

funded 30,000 into it into the

business I'm sorry your business partner

is your employer that those things are inconsistent well your like day job and then you guys started a business is that right correct yes corrects outside of my

40 hours and so that person put that

person put $330,000 into the business

that you started together correct how is

that debt then they invested into

it uh well I guess it's not really then

is it because I'm not paying it back

right now you you're not supposed to is

it supposed to be repaid by the partnership before profits come out or

something I that's how that's how I've

always assumed is that it would he would get paid off PA we not have an agreement as to when it how it will be paid off I

guess for that one no we don't okay you

need to get one by the end of the

weekend okay we need to know what's

going on here this is the kind of stuff that destroys Partnerships and businesses okay she has one set of

expectations and you have another and

then all of a sudden the thing gets blindsided so you guys need to determine that very very quickly usually it would

be something like a percentage of the

profits go to the debt until the debt is

cleared okay that would be a normal

thing and until there's profit profit

there wouldn't be any it's not debt

until their investment their investment is recouped is really actually the

terminology okay okay now over on his

side he needs to quit buying

equipment yep yep as of a correct

correct and he's on board with that not buying additional equipment yeah he's got way too much he may need to sell some um the now he took a salary of

65,000 what was his actual

profit H I don't know um so next week I

in our budget meeting we're going to be going over his business and then I'm

actually going to be set up taking

QuickBook classes and I'm going to be taking over that for his business to

start helping out okay all right so um

probably probably we need to find half

of debt and equipment to

sell CU I don't think his business I

don't think he's got another 100,000 coming out of that business so I don't think he's making much money considering

the amount of debt he has so I'm

scared $180,000 on a $65,000 net is

really scary right that's what I mean 80,000 I

can see my way to work through that so

I'm selling about half of this stuff give or take and you know try to get try

to get a bunch of the debt paid off that way now then let's let me give you one

other nuance and then let's address your question okay the Nuance is this they're

technically in both of these situations

are not business debt because he signed personally for th

that equipment right the bank doesn't think

he has a business the bank thinks it's

him the law think the law thinks it's

him and you didn't borrow money so you

don't have debt you have an investor that has a recoup plan on the investment

before you guys divy up profits or as you divy up profits or something you got to figure that out but his his equipment

is personal debt that he uses for

business that's the legal technical

thing that that does matter because you

know he it's him that'll be bankrupt if

this goes sideways not his

business that's what matters so now once

we said all of that then we say we're going to get the Quick Books going you're doing very good stuff Toria you're asking all the right questions you're doing all the right things congratulations and you've got good answers to everything so far um now when

you're doing the QuickBooks what we suggest when I'm teaching our entree leadership brand and he can start

listening to the entree leadership podcast if he wants to is if he wants to learn business stuff from us it's how we

teach small businesses to grow their business like we grew this one when I

find that they have debt I do it

differently than I do with your personal

credit card debt okay okay what we do there is we say

after he makes a basic living wage out

of the business which now he's getting married

you know he might make that be

40,000 okay because put with your income

you guys can probably make it at home if

he's doing that everything after that

we're going to call profit so pretend like he was just a

manager at this business and got paid 40,000 and I was the owner then whatever

was left from a keeping books standpoint

income minus expenses including the $40,000 manager is net profit you know

that right right cor okay so of that net

profit figure whatever it is and you can adjust the salary to be whatever you want it to be but but of that net profit

I want the vast majority of it each

month to go to debt reduction and the

rest of it to go to retained earnings

which is business talk for savings account okay okay now so most companies will do

something like 7030 or 8020 so like 80%

of your net profit after you take a living wage goes towards the debt 20

goes to build up your retained earnings

because you have to have some cash in business to operate and how much um like how many

months of that would be of retain earning month he's gonna every

month take a percentage every month take

a percentage of the net profit whatever

that is a bunch of it 80% whatever set

the formula ahead of time y'all look at

that and figure it out 70% 80% whatever

is going to go to debt the other's going to go and retained earnings if retained

earnings gets too big and SC you know

you got too much money in the bank reach over and pay off a piece of equipment right but I don't think that's going to happen I don't think that's going to be your issue you're probably going to be short of cash with the formula I'm

giving you you're probably not going to have as much as you want especially now that you can't borrow money anymore to buy buy more equipment you're going to want cashh to do that after you get the other equipment paid off but that's a

formula that'll work for you I think you

guys are on the track to success well done this is the ramsy show

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Cassie is with us in

Denver hi Cassie welcome to the ramsy

show hi thanks for taking my call sure

what's up um so I'm looking for advice on how

to improve my relationship with my

husband as we struggle with burnout and

feeling of the feeling of equity during

baby steps two and three um so we've been doing the baby

steps for eight months and had our first baby seven months ago and prior to that

it was easy to feel like equal contributors to the household in relationship which is important to us

but now he's working extra and I'm doing more at home with the baby even though

we're both working really hard it's just hard to get that feeling that we're

we're both in the same spot we're both dealing with the burnout right now and just kind of looking for any advice you guys might have you're not burned out you have a new baby yeah it's really hard I'm keeping one of

my grandkids tonight it's

hard yeah I'm keeping the littlest one

it's hard yeah because they they take up

a lot of energy they can't do anything

can they they're completely

helpless yeah and I guess you know me

taking on more of the household stuff I

I I'm feeling it burnt out than he is

well you got a brand new thing you've never had this gig before right if you guys weren't working

baby step two and three just having a

newborn it ain't no

picnic yeah and it's a different kind of

exhaustion yeah what you're doing C you

never sleep right yeah it's that and it's just

a yeah I mean it's yeah it's a lot it's

a lot of stress uh how much debt do you guys have left uh 39,000 okay do you

guys have timeline on when you think it'll be paid off so we're actually we know we're

getting inheritance probably 50 to

60,000 this summer but we're trying to live like we're not getting that trying to make the sacrifices now

so we don't go back into that and then also we don't have a house so the end

goal is a down payment for our house the more the more you can pay off the more the inheritance can go towards the house I love that yeah exactly that's a good

yeah okay so the way not number one we

have brand new baby is a different kind

of thing I'm not I'm not poking fun I'm

I'm empathizing it's a real you you've

got it's one of the toughest times for

exhaustion and a different kind of fatigue than you'll ever have any other time in your life okay as a matter of

fact every day it gets better yeah after this it really does

the night last night y there you go I'm not see I'm not kidding every day gets

better it's precious and it's wonderful

but it's exhausting

and so it's a different kind of thing than just we're working our tails off to get out of debt it's also a different kind of thing because your body's adjusting after having had a

child and so that the physical

attributes of that um affect this

discussion too in a very real way and

that's wonderful too but it's also a

very real part of the chemistry of what's going on it's just tiring yeah just tired you get tired yeah Cass um so

your husband are you working outside at all home or you are you there full-time

oh yeah I work I work full-time too and

and so yeah do you have you guys sat

down cuz even my husband and I we did this um when I was working and we had

kids where it was like what what are the

things around the house that I need help

with that I feel like oh my gosh like I can't do all of this and what are the

areas that he could step in right and

it's and everything's for a season life is going to change when when you know even if you have a second baby it just it changes Dynamic again um but have you

guys sat down and had those conversations because I think to the

responsibility at times especially if

you're a driver as a like a you're a

strong driver as a woman it can feel like oh yeah I'll just take care of it all I can do it and asking for help is

really difficult and so have you guys

sat down and talked about that yeah we have and it's honestly

gotten better than since I originally wrote in already it's improved from

talking I think it's it's hard cuz he

works a physical job and M's desk job

and then we just start getting into that hole it doesn't matter a relaxing no no

I think that's where you start splitting hairs cuz and there's a different type

of you did a physical thing having a

baby well and her job well her but her

job is a desk job right now you're at work all day and then you got a baby yeah I'm like it's yeah it's it's a it's

kind of all like we're all in this together it's not this oh keeping

scorekeeping of well you do this kind of

job here and I do this and you you know

what I mean like it can get into that and I think it's kind of this like whole mindset of like we're both exhausted so

what is the plan of action for us to get

through even just daytoday the basics

and necessities of stuff um and feeling

some level of that control in the household because I can because it is chaotic I mean it's it's really difficult um but when you have that stuff laid out and I think that's what Wiston and I did we kind of blew up the whole like responsibility roles and

responsibility of what we kind of thought and kind of assumed each other and for a short period of time we're going to make it whatever it needs to be yeah yeah it's kind of all hands on deck

feel and we could change it back and forth and we could do it for two weeks and change it again yep but um I I think

you're you know when you said Cassie you all sat down and started talking about but I I want to give you

um permission I I don't think it's burnout

I think it's just tired yeah okay burnout is I don't

emotionally that there's no light at the end of the tunnel except an oncoming train you actually see your way through

this you're just freaking

tired yeah that's fair yeah and and

sometimes when you have to pick up something out of the floor or take out

the trash or something because he went to sleep cuz he just worked a 12-hour shift or something like that you know

it's easy to it when you're tired you

get grouchy at least I do I'm grouchy

sometimes when I'm not tired so a little bit today so uh but yeah the

uh uh you know you see what I'm saying so uh I I I just want to give you I want you guys to give your permiss give yourself permission to say we are in a very unusual season of life it's a lot of Grace We're trying to do two very

hard things at the same time get out of

debt by working very intensely and deal

with a newborn both of these are heavy

lifting together it's really heavy and

it won't be for long yeah okay and and then that helps

me if I'm in if if I'm at the the end of

the game and I'm exhausted I got to run one more play I got to do one more thing

I got to push one more mile to finish that run whatever it is I'm at the end

as long as I can see the end I'm not

burned out I'm just

tired yeah and you're there you can see

the end and you and and you've done a

honestly from what you're describing I think you're both doing great I just think you haven't given yourself enough credit for how much crap

you've been going through I mean how many hard this is It's hard the only

thing we and to your point Cassie

marriage changes so drastically after you have a baby I'm like your your marriage looks different in a sense I'm like the lack of sleep the connection like all of that that you're talking about is so normal so so normal um so

yeah I would say even for you guys like find a couple of things I don't know for for us it just helped levity like if we could just find levity and laughter and like things just to like relieve some of

that tension and pressure uh that c

buildup I think is is really helpful cuz

you guys may not be at a place where like oh yeah weekly date nights I feel like some people are like do a weekly date night I'm like do you know how crazy how crazy our life is like we don't we're not in a season to do that

but like what's up what's something fun and delone will probably Dr John Delon will probably kill me for saying this but I'm like even like even like a

stupid TV show that it's like the thing that you guys do you sit down together and you watch it makes you laugh like what's a thing that just can bring some

levity to you guys I think is um is is

always helpful especially in these seasons and if yeah and if they're just now sleeping through the night at 7 months you're it's just it's exhausting

yeah yeah but you guys are doing a really good job Cassie and it doesn't last forever and um but I know I know

exactly how you feel because it's it's a lot but I I it also helps to put the

right language on it and burnout is not the right language tired is the right

language and I and and by the way it's

it's you're have a right to be tired

that's what we're trying to tell you um but it's also worth it so keep going you

know figure it out sit down parse out

the chores go honey tonight I just can't

do this I'm going to bed I mean whatever

or or yeah I you got to you got to take

the midnight you know I can't do it you

know whatever and and you just go back

and forth with that and you just work your way through till the end on this and you do you do figure out what you can do what you can't do and keep handing it back and forth handing it back and forth until you get across the goal line and you'll get there you'll

get there uh I think you're probably a

lot stronger than you feel like you are

matter of fact I'm sure you are this is the Ramsey Show

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host host today on the debt free

stage in the lobby of ramsy solutions

headquarters John is with us hey John how are you better than I deserve Dave

very cool and where do you live sir Seattle Washington very good and how much debt have you paid $59,000 696 or $

59,6 n6 I love it and how long did this

take 3 years 9 months 27 days all right

and your range of income during that time 20,000 to start and then after a

lot of side hustles and a little bit of over time 60,000 very cool what are you

doing now I'm a youth pastor and I'm

also a financial coach part-time with

your uh Ramsey preferred coaching cool

so dare to be different Romans 122 yep

all right be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of

your mind amen yeah good I love it one

of my favorite scriptures good for you

well done well done well done what kind of debt was the 60,000 student loans oh

baby youth pastor with student loans yep

making no money did you get out of

school and looked up three years ago nine months and said I got to do this or

what yeah so kind of like everyone or I

was a high schooler didn't really have any plans I jumped straight into student

loans went to a private private Christian School and um didn't actually

think about it I was like oh signing okay whatever I don't really care what I was doing two and a half years in I'm in

my dorm and I see this book and it's

five College mistakes you can't afford to miss by Rachel Cruz andth I was like

that's a good book and I looked at it and the first one of the chapters was College choice and it said public inate

versus private out of state and that's

what I did and I was like oh no what did

I do and I looked and I saw I

accumulated 60,000 and I was only

halfway through my degree so I just had

this holy crap like full of Shame full

of hopelessness like what am I going to do and uh during my part-time College

job I was actually um kind of looking

and I scrolled upon on a uh Dave Ramsey

you know bald guy giving someone Hope on

uh YouTube and I just jumped all in just

started consuming the podcast the YouTube and um I realized wait a minute

I can pay for my degree online while

working full-time so I actually stopped

it was December 2019 right before covid

so I did I did online before it was cool

that wasn't a plan but everyone kind of followed my footsteps not really but start yep but honestly the co pause

actually helped me kind of accelerate my debt payment but I made 1,600 a month to

start off and it was nothing wow and 150

bucks a month for groceries um instacart

door Dash house sitting cat sitting

anything and everything um but long

story short I even worked for a car

dealership for part of it um but using

Ken Coleman's materials I realized I have a passion for helping high schoolers uh find and follow Jesus and

that became just a really evident through the Kent Coleman materials just

uh Community speaking into my life as well as oh wait I also have this passion

for finances since finances is the

biggest and common reasons for divorce

so I then kind of did that so now I'm

actually at a church uh Bethany poop uh

we do uh FPU which I love because I get

to Point my high schoolers to it um but

a new thing now that I'm debt free and I can do is every senior that graduates

I'm going to give a a copy of The Total Money Makeover and say hey I was an

idiot with money and I didn't follow

God's ways of handling money I was a terrible Steward for the his resources

for his kingdom and for his glory please

learn from me and to talk about what scripture actually says about it um to

also like help them set them up for success and to like recognize that your

decisions you know have um the impact

your future so that's man you're amazing

well done sir so great well done how old

are you 25 all right all right very cool

good for you good for you who was your biggest cheerleader while you're going through this I had a bunch of cheerleaders my mom and my sister um I

got a list daav and stas toosy the

rental house I'm allowed to stay in my community group The gouges for my landscaping job accountability Jeff Brink Sean McArthur Matt Rand Lily and

Tony duck almost like he knew I was going to ask you I've listened to so

many of these we've had this conversation so many times um but I just

wasn't on the other end yeah um but one

person in particular I have a guitar

pick that says never give up pork chop

and pork chop was my family middle name

and um July 21st um this year uh my dad

passed away oh my and um he was one of

my biggest cheerleaders and um I got out

of that in October and he didn't get to

see it and um actually actually he did

you're right um but he sent me art

anytime you were on Fox news Dave he would like send me articles he's like John you're kicking this Dead's butt keep going and um he uh he modeled for

me sacrifice growing up and um it was

hard man I there were times I didn't want to wake up early to go landscaping and do all that stuff but Dad sacrificed

for me and my sister growing up so I had

that picture you know beachel says more is caught than taught and I got that

from my Dad wow and

um that's amazing I miss him and I'm

actually want to kind of dedicate this to him because um I really miss him but

yeah you got the T-shirt done that's great I like it I like it I like the pick on there that's very cool so good

stuff good stuff man so for you I mean

your dad's story integrated throughout this I know was was a difficult part of

the journey but for you being you know

in your mid 20s kind of figuring all

this out and wanting to do something extreme like get out of debt right and all this and all these student loans

what was the hardest thing like what was it the work you mentioned the Landscaping like what was the thing that was like man that that was the difficult that was the difficult part I think it was everything it was submitting to a

process that's worked for millions of people and I think the key for me well

it was saying no working a lot like

being okay with like I can't go

skydiving or can't go on this can't do

that but I realized it was like you know

what I want to be 25 without any student

loans and I get to I want to be a good

Steward of God's resources for his kingdom and His glory um and I want to

model it you and don't let anyone look down at you

because you're young with set an example for the Believers speech and life and love and faith and Purity and I want to do that for my students but I think

submitting to a process that's biblical

that's clear that has clear set paths

and I think there's something about that that impacts your mental health your finances your relationships and there's something about God's ways of handling

life that not just thinking about it but

actually doing it is really powerful and

you get to reap the fruit that comes from it so y but it's awesome it is it

it cuts through it cuts through quick and Deep Well Done proud of you man

thanks man good work good work I know your mom is proud of you your sister's proud of you and your daddy's proud of you well done thank you for your mentorship so excellent excellent stuff

excellent stuff okay so when someone

says what's the key to getting out of debt what do you tell them ownership

ownership I think ownership Vision um

for me like I realized I didn't really

know what I was doing when I signed those papers but I did and I have to own that um but I'm you know I was the

problem but now I get to tell my clients

I was like hey you were the problem but good news you're the solution you know you can do it um and the power of the

renewing of your mind it's like yes the decision is hard but you can do it you

can rewire your brain you can do not be

conformed to the patterns of this world and honestly dare to be different I think we as followers of Jesus should be different in areas every area of our life not just our finances but our relationships our marriages every area

of your life so that's why I wrote dare to be different um and do not be

conformed to the patterns of this world so amen it's awesome Amen well done sir

thank you congratulations very well done

all right John from Seattle

$60,000 in student loan debt paid off in

three years and N months making

$20,000 a year up to 60,000 with lots of

side hustles yeah don't tell me you

can't do this those numbers that's tough

that's some tough numbers right there

well done sir very well done count it

down let's hear a de free Scream 3 2 one

I'm death

free

yeah love it that's as good as it gets

boys and girls love it love it love it

this is the Ramsey Show

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our scripture of the day Proverbs 13:12

hope deferred makes the heart sick but a

longing fulfilled is a tree of life

Tommy lorta said there are three kinds of people in this world people who make it happen people who Watch What Happens

and people who wonder what

happened Elizabeth is in Colorado

Springs hey Elizabeth welcome to the

Ramsey show Hello thank you so much I'm

excited to talk to you all you too how can we help um we are facing in the next

several months um some changes in our

finances we have not lived on a written

budget yet we've just kind of lived in our means but I am tired of being

panicky every night wondering where my money is and just now going into this

season of uncertainty I don't know how to start building that budget and and

what's the season of uncertainty again sorry may have missed that um yeah so we

we just had our third child um and um

right before she was born we found out

that our daycare provider is um moving

so now we have to enroll our kids in a

new daycare which is essentially doubling our daycare day excuse me

daycare Bills starting in July um we are

also any day now going to start

receiving these bills from the hospital so um you know just kind trying to figure out what those are going to be um

while also still paying off our debts

and you know trying to provide for our family okay good news Elizabeth none of that is uncertain it's all very certain

okay it's happening right it's it's not

like you can't predict it you can know it it's it may be hard but it's not

uncertain it may be and the amount may

be uncertain with the with the medical bills do you well I mean you know no it's not I mean you know you've got insurance and you can tally up what the

what your co-pay is and figure out what your bills are going to be you shouldn't on a normal labor and delivery if you've got normal Insurance you shouldn't have a huge bill there but it's not it's not

one that's going to break your back but what it amounts to is is just as you decided to tackle this you had three

things come at you that were extra well

two one is I want to get out of debt

that didn't come at you but the other two things came at you so um you know

what you're saying is it's going to be it was really going to be hard to budget anyway now it's going to be super hard

right not to budget to make the budget

work with the income we have and so what

you're going to have to do is look at and say what what there may be something

that has to give um like you landed on

this daycare that's double you may have

to keep looking that one may not fit

your budget that one might not we are on

yeah we're on the wait lists for other

closer cheaper options but the one the

one that you had was some kind of it was a friend or something what was it yeah

yeah it was just it was a stay-at-home mom that just wanted pocket money basically so okay you got to keep looking for that yes to replace the one

you got and then it's not double how

old's your baby how old's the third uh

she's three weeks oh wow okay yeah

wonder you just had the baby all right

so yeah I I think what happens is as you

say all right we're going to we're going to lay out the written game plan and and

the written game plan is food is first

shelter is second lights and water is

third and then with what's left we try

to figure out all this other stuff right

okay and so cuz you will emotionally be

in a better place if you know you have a place to live the heat is on the water

is on and um there's food on the table

now the rest of it a Monopoly game and

when will you go back to work Elizabeth or or are the other two older ones I

guess they're still in daycare yeah

they're still in daycare I go back mid

June um and then with that I'm going to

keep home my oldest when the younger who go to daycare until she starts preschool

which we also have to build into the budget and like when she'll start in mid August then okay wow okay yeah so I

think I think yeah what we're saying is just the good news is you're going to

see all this coming and you're going to happen to it instead of it happening to

you MH but it is still going to be tight

and it's going to be stressful but not nearly as stressful as if you added chaos to it right so that is a relief

yeah and I would find out for even like the as much as you can get the facts I

think is helpful Elizabeth so even the medical stuff you like oh my gosh the medical bills are going to hit figure out how much those are and see okay as

we if we do a payment plan like you know can we are we able to pay off you know x amount next month um and really be

really really specific even for you because there's going to be so much change with you going back to work in June another kid starts a different preschool uh in August like even do if

you do the every dollar app which if you hold hold on the line uh Emily will pick

up and we'll get you the premium version for a year but go ahead and build out a

couple of months of budgets looking out knowing that these months ahead that the

budgets will change but at least you can kind of get a plan of like okay this is what it looks like here here and here it is amazing when you have facts down um

and those numbers are actually down on paper it's not just in your head it does

stress it low the stress it gives you a lot of Peace yeah okay no that's exactly

what I need yeah cuz when you again when you know the house payments paid the lights and water is on and there's food on the table then you can go oh okay now

the rest of this is

inconvenient now we know that we can pay

the medical bills and even the preschool in installments is that considered debt

should we try to pay that off preschool

is not preschool is just you're paying it monthly that's like paying your electric bill monthly I mean that's you're paying for it as you use it but uh the medical

bills would be debt if you can clear it clear it you have any money saved yes

yes oh yeah we're we're fine financially I just know I I don't know what things are going to look like right now so yeah

okay well the more the more you do what Rachel said and dig up that information and lay it out in a very certain way

yeah and have you guys ever done a really detailed budget like how much we spend for groceries are out to eat kids

activities like you're really line item by line item have you guys ever done that no and and that's always frustrated

me and panicked me

so checklist item yeah and go back

Elizabeth like the even in your bank

account the last two or three months and

just kind of average out okay here's all my grocery store runs and just take a sheet of paper and just write them all down and divide it you know and just say

Okay on average on average this is what

we were spending at the grocery before we were budgeting right and plug those numbers in and then usually when you're not budgeting your overspending in categories not realizing it and then say

okay if we really were on a plan what

could I limit that to what could I shrink that down to right and so it's kind of just ends up being this puzzle piece but you'll go back you'll run some numbers look back at your checking account for gas how much you guys fill up on gas every month like it sounds so

granular and detailed but it is so so

helpful and with every dollar it's going

to be attached to your bank account so when those transactions come in you just drag and drop them into a category and

it does the math for you and it just shows you here's how much is left in the

month and and just having that control like it is it's amazing it really is and

it'll take you guys a few months to get it down it won't be perfect um and you

and your husband are both looking at these numbers and you're both carrying the weight of the decisions in the

household both of you are looking at it

you may be the one that writes the checks or he may be the one I don't care

but both of you were looking at it and saying oh if you're going to have an old crap moment we do it as a couple if we're going to have a victory moment we do it as a couple how much you guys make

a year Elizabeth we make 220 220 okay

any debt um we've got 50 um and a a car

a home repair and some land so okay and

how much um uh how much do you have in

savings um about

25 okay yeah you guys are in great shape

Elizabeth I think you're I think you're doing better than you think you are but follow the baby steps throw some of that 25,000 once you get those medical bills

and kind of know pay the medical bills when they come in and then let's start cleaning up the rest of the debt and build a good strong

emergency fund in your case is probably

50,000 so if you had 50,000 in the bank

and no payments but a house payment and a written game plan where every dollar had an assignment and you and your husband had agreed to it your stress level is going to go down 90% that would be incredible yeah that's

why we call it Financial

Peace yeah you're doing you're you're

really asking all the right questions yeah this is going to turn out well for you proud of you good stuff you're going

to get it good for you well done well

done well done that's how you work a lot

of new babies the show it was a baby

show I know a lot of a lot of ones but

that's great and it is funny how those

different how different life events can

come up and and then you look at everything and you're like oh my gosh I was stressed about that I want that to change I see this and then the domino effect of yep of really helping your

life overall it it happens it's a

beautiful thing it's a very John delones

there we go love it good job Rachel that

puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the

books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the

Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

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## 224. The Ramsey Show (Replay from May 25, 2021)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:28:18 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book business boutique is my co-host today

as we take your questions at triple eight eight two five five two two five the call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it triple eight eight two five five two two five christy is also in olympia washington and is our first caller of the hour hi christy how are you i'm good how are you dave better than i deserve what's up okay um i'm a little nervous um

so bear with me um i've been dying i think i've been dying to have a reason to call you and i finally do um we have a house in california that we're currently renting out my husband's in the military we bought the house before he joined um so we are renting it out currently we're

not making any money on it um we considered raising the rent just to make ends meet but my question is we're due to we're on track to move again in six months to new mexico

um ultimately we would love to be back in california back into our hometown should we sell it yes

and i knew that was going to be your answer but i didn't know what you thought with the current market what you thought it would be and um let's try let's try reverse engineering it okay you're in the military and you're moving from city to city and you're not going to be in california for at least five more years correct and you don't own a house there

let's pretend you don't own a house there and you woke up one more and thought you know what i'm going to go over in this little town in california and buy a rental house that i don't make any money on

you would never do that right and yet you have so let's undo it sell it

and and okay so now we currently might be um profiting like a hundred thousand would we should we just put that into something and let it sit there so when we do come back to california we got a big chunk of change to put down on a house or should we buy something in new mexico that make a great house fund do you have any diving debt though no no debt

we have um 30 000 in the savings wonderful okay yeah i would just take whatever profits you have of course pay your taxes on it and set it aside in a um future real estate mutual fund put in a mutual fund and just in your in your mind you could kind of mark that file that's my house fund for the future and you can keep adding to

it by the way if you want to that wouldn't hurt anything and by the way there's not a law that says that you're necessarily going to end up back in california when you're done five years ago you never dreamed you'd be where you are right now

that's true we do want to be back in our hometown with family that would be our goal and that's and that's why we have a smaller mortgage right now with that house i would just be afraid of coming back to california and and then getting into a bigger mortgage than before just because of the prices well the problem is you're going to lose money between now and

then and you're going to wish you had just not had to fool with this whole thing you're better off not long-distance landlording you're better off not fooling with this it doesn't make sense and so um and we're not i mean i know

it's your goal to be back there but no one knows i mean five years is a long time a lot of stuff happens in five years yeah things may change dave you use this example a lot so speak to the principal at play there because regardless of the circumstances christie's question was about the house but i hear you say that a lot okay let's reverse engineer it

if this was not true whatever the circumstances are would you go do it would you go buy it would you create it the answer is always no right that the question answers no no no necessarily i mean you know uh if i didn't own a ski boat i'd be buying one this week because i'm going to the lake this weekend right but i'm saying something that someone's trying to get out of

i guess i mean the point is she do i keep it or do i sell it yes and you can ask that about anything an investment you can ask it about a ski boat you can ask it about um whatever but if you look at something and you say if i didn't already own that i wouldn't go buy it for the very reasons that you wouldn't go buy

it you're not using it you don't like it it's about investment it's whatever it's the same reasons you wouldn't keep it that was what i was going to ask so whenever you ask the question if this weren't true would you go do it are there ever circumstances where that doesn't apply so you're saying it's like if the answer is yes i would go do this today anyway

then then you'd keep then you know okay you keep it okay so for instance let's say um the the first place this always comes up is within a pure investment like let's say let's say you um bought stock in i'll just make up a company home depot okay about stock at home depot and let's say you bought it at 75 dollars a share

and it went down to 50 a share and you say gosh i'm gonna wait on it to come back up i go well would you buy stock at 50 a share yeah because i've got real reason to think it's going to come up right then you would sit and wait to come up and you say oh no i wouldn't buy the 50 a share i wish i hadn't bought

it at 75 dollars a share because i think it's going to go down then why then why are you falsely waiting on it to come back up to be your measure of when you sell it you need to say you don't analyze it based on the past you analyze it based on the future yeah okay you're forward-looking with your decisions and going okay if i wouldn't do that again now

then i don't keep doing it just because of the past yeah and that's an investment is called a sunk cost analysis what you've put into it your cost is irrelevant as to whether you keep it virtually irrelevant i mean you may have some tax implications but it's virtually irrelevant the the investment analysis should be and for that matter the position of a boat should be the future of that not my family's always had a boat i've always had a boat

this boat's not been in the water for 10 years it sits in my garage but but because of the past i'm going to continue to keep this thing in the garage yeah okay well that's dumb yeah but if you're going to use it this weekend and you've always used it in the summer then you would go get a boat or you would keep your boat in that case

so you're looking forward with all of your decision-making analysis uh not the past the weight of the emotions the weight of the cost of the item not that and so you know if you would go and buy a small house in a small town in california because you're afraid real estate prices are going to go up and if you didn't own it now and you would go do that now

i wouldn't suggest that but if you would do it right then maybe you would keep it different and that's where we see it the most every time i host with you it's always around real estate i had a house i'm holding the house now i'm renting out the house and it's another state and the house is almost always inherited into that situation meaning no one set out in those situations to be a landlord right right it's a landlord by default is where most of those questions come from yes

i became a landlord by default i got married we moved into her house but we kept mile house as a rental that's landlord by default we're in the military we moved we bought a house everywhere we've been and every time we move off we turn it into a rental property that's not i decided that's going to be my rental investment strategy it's landlord by default yeah and it's not wise

it almost

never leads you to a good real estate purchase yeah or keeping the right piece of real estate as an investment uh i i

own one piece of property that i formerly lived in right now and it's a great rental and i would buy it again as a rental so i i passed the acid yeah but but you know there but but the house i currently live in would not be a great rental yeah it's too stinking ridiculous you know so not a good idea so it's going to be sold yeah no that's the deal this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is the co-host of the ramsey show today

the christy wright show is where you can hear her on her podcast it's where faith meets personal development so you can have a bigger faith and a better life get the encouragement that you want the tough love truth you need

to connect with god take control and enjoy your life new episodes every tuesday on youtube and anywhere you listen to podcasts the christy wright show be sure and check it out phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from nema in maryland my husband and i have no debt we have a significant savings account considering our income

and my husband is super responsible with the budget the problem is that i can't stand to budget i hate the accountability the time it takes and how confusing it is besides for just sucking it up and telling myself to be a big girl what can i do to shift my mindset and my actions this is interesting to me because i'm curious i feel like there's more there of why don't

you like it because it really shouldn't be that confusing especially if you have no debt and you are using something simple like every dollar where it's actually fun to drag and drop your expenses and their categories and um you know i don't know i don't know if you don't if you don't know why something matters you don't want to do it but if you could see the payoff of how

you actually control your money versus it controlling you then the means to the end becomes worth it i don't know what do you think dave what what else is she saying in that question um

but i'm not sure uh that there's obviously a lot of possibilities number one um yeah you need to know why you're doing it uh because otherwise it's not confusing it's really not that hard and it doesn't take that much time once you start doing it so it really does come down to the accountability

and uh you know so if you're self-admitting i'm a princess and i don't want to be told no even by my own self for my own good then you might as well eat a box of donuts at every meal and be 800 pounds i mean if you have no self-control whatsoever yeah and no accountability to

for your own benefit yeah i mean you know it's just it's just misbehavior it's just immaturity at that point but i don't think that's really what it is here um i'm kind of thinking that that you know i'm a spender and i learned to love the budget because it gives me permission to spend that's what i'm saying i wonder if what she's saying without saying it is her

and her husband don't see the budget the same so like for her she doesn't feel the freedom to put in the budget what she wants to spend money and feels that we have money to spend on i don't think she's got a voice in this yeah but she hasn't bothered to take it either she's copping out yeah yeah you know i just need to be a big girl there's a little whining going on yeah

so uh you know yeah you do need to be a big girl and you need to speak up and say okay we've got plenty of room in this budget we make plenty of money we don't have any debt and we're going to put some joy on the paper here you set the budget you can make it look like whatever you want it to her money yeah it's your money

but you're not in congress you can't just spend not infinite you just can't keep going and going and going and going and going that doesn't work so yeah you do have to have some boundaries but they that but they're your boundaries you get to set them so a i think she's probably not speaking into it doesn't feel like she's got control b probably nerd husband's got the budget too tight yes to where there's no joy in

this thing um and then see yeah you do have to be a big girl and suck it up yeah uh there's part of that in there too no whining allowed but it might be that you just need to take control of this it is a spending plan yeah it's how you're going to spend your money yeah so it's not saying you know dave ramsey doesn't want me to ever have fun again oh shut up

the whole point of living like no one else is later you can live and give like no one else the whole point of paying a price to win is and by the way it's your choice dave ramsey's not coming to your house right and straighten you out right every night when you misbehave i mean this is a matter of are you going to be a grown up

and are you going to control your destiny that's all it is it's not me telling you and i and i don't think that you need to live on beans and rice the rest of your life and i don't hate poor people i have been both um and it's easier when you have a little money so i'm trying to teach you how to have a little money it's that simple

so you know the whining lefties are just beyond belief but they're there and so she's not that her thing is she just isn't speaking into this and she doesn't feel power yeah you know feel like she's gaining power over her life and this thing is being used by her husband to control her yeah yeah and she points out we have no debt we have significant savings considering our income

and my husband is super responsible for the budgets there's all the backstory why can't you i can't stand to budget you need to answer the question why can't you stand the budget and she says i don't like it's confusing it takes time that's bull it's absolutely bull yeah she's not represented in the budget you're not represented you don't have any say you don't feel like you have any say maybe he's not being hardcore

but you're just anticipating that he is right maybe that's the way you were raised i don't know what's going on here but but there's there's something about you need a voice in this you need to set it you've got some room you need to put some fun some joy on the paper enjoy

your money some of it but then yes you need to have guardrails we all you never make enough money to not have guardrails yeah i mean i make a lot of money and i have guardrails yeah you know i have boundaries you have a plan they're different boundaries than when i was broke yeah but there's still boundaries there's still guardrails you know you got different different situations

so all right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five thank you for joining us america we're glad you're here christy wright is our co-host if you've been paying attention the real estate market this year you've noticed that competition out there is really high it's a cray-cray real estate market in part because inventory has been hitting all-time lows it is truly a seller's world now

when inventory is low it simply means there's more buyers buying than sellers selling which turns the pressure up the price is up the bidding wars start this is not amateur hour you don't want to be playing out there without a pro in your corner you're going to get hammered to win in this market you need a pro by your side if you're buying or selling a monkey can sell a house

but not necessarily for the right price and lots of monkeys wouldn't got their real estate licenses this year a bunch of them they've sold two houses in their entire life and you're going to put your largest asset up for sale with them dumb idea now you need a pro in

your corner and you can instantly connect with one of our endorsed local providers high octane high protein real estate agents ramsey solutions dot com agent find a ramsey trusted agent near you ramsey solutions dot com slash agent open phones triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in and we will talk linda is here in boise

idaho hi linda how are you

hi dave and christy thank you for taking my call sure um this call is probably

more for christy my son played in the minor leagues for the cubs

and he's also been a high school

and a college pitching coach

but that that's in the past and he would

like to start his own pitching

consultant business um he works full-time this would be on the side and i would be the manager

so what do you do to get started

i have i have so many follow-up questions linda is this something you want to do i know it's his idea i know he's good at it i know all that but let's talk about you for a second is this something you want to do yes i'm retired it'll give me something to focus on i i'm all in okay what does he uh what's his vision for this business

he works full-time this is a side gig is it just for fun is it to make some extra cash does he want to grow it to be the full-time thing uh probably just for fun when he goes on

the baseball field he sees young children you know third

fourth fifth grade uh having poor fishing mechanics which could affect their future one in high school linda hang on the hang on through the break we're gonna answer your question when you get back so we can dig into this yeah we want to dig into a little bit more and give you a good solid answer we'll be right back with you this is the ramsey show [Music]

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welcome to the ramsey show kristy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today

open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five we're talking with linda in boise idaho her son is wanting to start

a side gig doing pitching coaching he

has been a professional ball player and he's asking his mom linda to run the coaching business i guess while he does the coaching and christie was in the process of helping her with that yeah so linda let's do a quick recap when we left and went to break i was asking what's the vision for this business so is this going to stay aside business does you want to grow it to full time let's kind of pick up there

i think probably for now it would be a side business um he just got his masters in social

work so he'll be working professionally with children on that side so this i would just be

keeping into the baseball okay well i'll tell you what jumps out to me first there's there's a lot you want to uh plan for especially because you would be running something that is your son is actually fulfilling the uh the business side of it of the coaching consulting pitching you know that type of thing here's what i would get really clear on linda really clear what is

he doing and what are you doing let's get real clear on that what what does he want you to do for the business is it the books is it the marketing is it the day-to-day admin work um who's wearing which hats so who's wearing the marketing hat who's wearing the accounting hat that type of thing obviously he would be doing the uh actual coaching but when you say running

the business that includes a lot of things and i'm curious if there's aspects of that he wants to do or expects to do and then what he wants and expects you to do just just get on the same page i would actually write it out i would sit down and get really clear you know what does this look like to you let's define it let's let's write

it out and then also what are um goals vision expectations you know how many hours does he want to dedicate to this um how much money does he want to make through this do those correlate um you know what what market does he want to serve and is that market there in your in your town and your city that type of things i would just get really really clear on what he's doing what you're doing

and then i would baby step into it he sounds like he's got a full plate already of things and this may seem like a great idea that when he gets into it he's overwhelmed so let's just take it uh one step at a time one client at a time one you know and you'll you'll learn a lot when you get into it about what he wants to do more or less of what

you want to do more or less of but i would take it slow start small grow slow and then you

can you can build on it more once you learn a little bit i'll definitely um lisa what do you do for a living she's retired you're retired how old are you retired nurse you're a nurse how old are you 70. okay all right and um is he wanting to do this for you

no okay he loves baseball i know that

but i mean is he wanting you to start is he wanting you in this business to help you are you struggling with money

no okay no we're he's independent we are

independent we've followed your all of your things for years and okay

all right cool i just was making sure that what the motivations were behind all of this and what's going on so this is just simply him wanting to help some kids learn to pitch properly and um he doesn't want to deal with the administrative and business side of it he just wants to do the pitching part and you pick up the rest that makes sense okay cool well

i hope it works out i'm with christy let's baby step into it move slow into it incrementally so that you guys can learn as you go and figure out what your next step let's send her a copy of business boutique that'd be great reading for her anyway as she's kind of having these conversations with him absolutely that's perfect so uh kelly i'll pick up linda and send

you a copy of business boutique elizabeth is with us in canada hi elizabeth how are you hi i am thankful to god for his blessings amen me too what's up

um so my husband's 29 i'm 34 we're expecting our first baby in july we don't have any debt except for our 30-year mortgage we have about 280 000 left on that

we've only owned it for a little over a year we have thirty thousand dollars in our emergency fund and we have about forty three thousand dollars just sitting in our savings that we've saved up and kept there and we're kind of a little bit divided on what to do with that so my husband

looks at the numbers and he wants to put it in investments for retirement and i hate having the house debt and i know that it's not a huge chunk in relation to what we owe on the house but i know that it would help pay down the principal and i just i hate owing on the house i don't like the debt and we don't have any other debt so it's like that's the one thing um so but numbers why is he thinking it won't get us ahead as fast as investing

will when you're looking 30 years down the road so i guess with the question is with that 43 000 chunk should we pay down the principal on our mortgage or invest now or split it somehow or just i

could just say screw it and get a brand new toilet tacoma that would be like

well that's possibility

i mean if you're on board there you go the uh i mean if you have a purchase that you need to make other than a screw it purchase but i mean a legitimate project that you want to make then that might be a play but basically what we teach is what we call the baby steps and it sounds like you're aware of them baby step one is

and two is to be debt-free everything but the house three is an emergency fund you've done that beyond that you have this 43 000 which we would apply to uh beginning your baby steps four five and six simultaneously four is putting

15 percent of your household income into retirement are you doing that um well okay so yes and no so not 15 but

so the coolest thing is actually at my husband's job he makes about 90 000 a year and i'm going to be a stay-at-home mom so i wanted working but i'm not so our let's just say we make about households 90 000. so at the end of each year his um

company gives him 12 of his annual

income above what he made and we use that solely for investing so it's not we haven't he just started there he's only been there for a little over a year so we've only received one and that's just a lump sum bonus

yeah exactly and so i think it's intended for investing and that's what we use it for just goes right so we've only been investing for a very short time because so what i would do is change your system then you do not have a 90 000 income you have 102 000 income okay counting bonuses yeah okay give or

take 101 but somewhere right in there and so i would be putting 15 000 a year

of your money systematically monthly into retirement savings okay and that that's a budgeting change for you that's not that really doesn't address the 43 000 but i would start that immediately i would not do what you're doing because you might not get the bonus one year and you need to you need to be in the habit of steadily investing 15 of your income and the um so that that's

the direction i would go now the um then the next step is do you have children one on the way in july then uh we might use some of that 43 000 to set aside for kids college maybe step five and anything that's left beyond that i would put it on the house and uh and i am also doing math and part of the math i'm doing is data that says that

the typical millionaire that we studied in the largest study of millionaires ever done in north america shows that the typical millionaire has

paid off home and substantial money in retirement and what i just laid out for you will get you there substantial money in retirement fifteen percent fifteen thousand dollars a year going into retirement and uh then beyond

that uh uh you know you're putting the the uh money toward every dollar above that towards getting the home paid off and the typical person listening to the show doing our steps pays off their home in seven to eight years the typical millionaire pays off their home in about 10 years but people following this stuff tend to be a little bit more intentional a little bit more intense

and move in that direction so somewhere in that 7-10 range house is paid for but it won't be if you keep screwing around and putting the 43 000 in investments because quote unquote i did some math um which by the way was wrong

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five christopher is in dayton ohio hi christopher welcome to the ramsey show

hey dave how you doing better than i deserve what's up so uh i'll try and make a long story short i am uh divorced about three years ago and in those three years i've been to court my wife's ex-wife is taking me to court three times five times excuse me so each time we go to court costs anytime anywhere between ten thousand and thirty thousand dollars uh i was on baby step two just bumped down to baby step one um so we're rebuilding our thousand dollar safety or emergency fund we are 96 thousand dollars in debt i am remarried uh we have a household income of 120 000.

um i mean i don't want to speak illegal i mean is this about kids or what's it about well in in her argument it's always

about the kids but she's um narcissists and depression so she lets that guide her ways even though i keep winning in court she keeps taking me back just finding a different loophole to do it and so we're gearing up for her fifth round now that she's taking me back for the same reasons okay i think you need an attorney that gets on the offensive not just the defensive

because she's abusing the court system it sounds like she is my wife and i have talked about we don't even know if it's legal to start doing like uh harassment um

type of uh legal action towards you but you you need an attorney you need an attorney to investigate that you really do because this is i mean i'm just listening to what you're describing and and you know people who are continually doing that uh leave themselves open to a lot type of liability there and so the abuse of the court system is a real thing attorneys can be sanctioned for that and um certainly individuals can just filing frivolous lawsuits is not allowed

you know and so that's the you know i i keep winning i keep winning and she keeps looking for some angle so anyway that that but anyway you so you've got 96 000

in debt is that what you said yes sir how much of that is attorney's fees um that is current attorney fees is

about twenty five thousand dollars okay and what's the rest of it

the rest of it is from going through the divorce um i took on all the debt that we had at the time and then um we uh

you know it was like a snowball effect in the wrong direction for us we were dropping everything to be able to pay for attorneys so then we accumulate debt because we have you know we could pay a lawyer we could pay for food um i could lose my kids or we could feed the kids kind of thing so we ended up making i wouldn't call them bad choices they were just a noose around our neck and we had accumulated credit card debt um so how much credit card

uh credit card debt is sitting at um i

believe it's 22 000 right now because that's 50 between those two things that are associated with this what's the other 50. and then there was a personal loan to accumulate the uh the debt from when the divorce first took place that's currently sitting at 37 000 and then um

the the rest of it is like kids and braces and stuff like that

kids and braces for fifteen thousand dollars uh no no um if that doesn't equal up to exactly fifteen thousand i'm trying to remember my dave ramsey uh that's our website what all of it is credit card and consolidation loan yeah okay oh and family debt because they helped me pay for lawyers as well okay and you make 120 household income now with your new wife yes sir okay good all right um

and then your question at the end of this is what so right now we're projected to pay off if nothing else happened uh another 17 000 in debt by the end of the year and we should be debt free by mid august of 20 or excuse me mid um

2025 that's our goal and i guess our question uh the wife and i were sitting around talking and that is what could we possibly do to better protect ourselves so that when we do get slapped in the face with another court um hearing we're not scrambling for twenty thousand dollars to to make it happen our our goal we're trying to pick gazelles and and uh knock out this debt as fast as possible but every time we go to court it really kicks us it beats us down yeah

yeah hey i don't know uh it may be that you treat this like it's a chronic situation and say um uh you know if you had a an illness that cost you 20 000 a year that was chronic you would have to put that into your budget and then above that work on getting out of debt right and so i i think you've got a chronic legal problem for now

and you've got to continue so i put a couple grand a month in the budget set over in a separate savings account only only for legal fees potentially if you

and it might be that if it happens again we're going to use those legal fees to be those attorneys fees to be offensive

okay okay so you would say slow down paying off the debt to build up a account to build it well because you're going to because you're you you have a very high probability this is coming at you again yes sir and so you know you've got to get ready for it i mean this is a christmas is coming in december a lawsuit is coming from the ex-wife

these are predictable things it is every time something good happens in my life that seems to happen and i'm not i'm not trying to be a black cloud that's not my point my point is just mathematically forecasting we're just going to predict and if the bad thing doesn't happen you've got the money it didn't go anywhere but you can't go buy a bass boat with it then

you got to use it for debt absolutely so if for some reason she decides to calm down without being slapped into next week with an attorney which may be what has to happen um i mean sometimes you just have to stand up and fight you know forward rather than backward and uh i don't know i mean i don't know the particulars are your situation i'm not an attorney uh

but you know i there there is a benefit to going

after offensively some of these people that misbehave using the court systems well this is not working so you're five times in th this is not working so we can't you know i mean like i would try something else after this fifth round or whatever it is you know i i never suggest i mean very very seldomly suggest someone pick a fight right but sometimes you have to finish one yeah uh in order to

you know in order for it to be over yeah it's not going to be over until you finish it yeah i mean you've got to punch into punch and punch and punch until it's over yeah and you just stand there and and just you know and the problem being in a fight is it it doesn't just uh hurt the person that you're hitting it hurts you yeah

when you're hitting you're you know if you're physically we're in a fight your hands will get damaged you know uh you know boxers come out you know they're damaged on but you know there's no no one gets out of these things unscathed it's not like there's one guy does all the hitting and one guy doesn't right you know everybody gets hit but the thing is if you're going to go through all that at least stick in

it long enough to win yeah where you don't have to fear this every single year and just absolutely defeat the evil foe you know that's what you and you have to take on that persona of doing that and it's very difficult yeah so it's emotional because you can hear the emotional drain on him oh my gosh like it's just never and he's talking about he's going along with his life

i thought you were going to be the ex-wife yeah but you're never going away you know just go away i've

had people in my life like that just go away just go go live your life over there somewhere just go away you know but they can't seem to do it so they they don't get it no it's not just a financial drain it's just that emotional drain time the headache the strain on your marriage your kids it's it it's uh you know and you you go from uh

you know being angry to sad to back and forth and i'm just i'm so sorry yeah sorry you've been been through that yeah and and and it's you know it's the problem is it's stealing both the emotion the spirit and the money from your future with your current wife right that's the problem you're taking your eyes off of good things that could be done instead you have to deal with

this crap yeah and this fight yeah and uh hey

been there myself know how it is not in a divorce situation but in other situations and you've just got to you just have to uh the bad actors they have to be punished and you know you don't have any way around it uh you know i i don't set out to be sheriff andy but um but we'll finish it you know if you're gonna pick a fight

and that's that's the re that's where i'm coming from because i've been in those situations and sadly in legal battles where you have to become the aggressor rather than even though you didn't start the fight right in order to stop it that's how it works all right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host

james childs is our producer kelly daniels our associate producer and phone screener i am dave ramsey and we'll be back [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsay call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host this hour this

day open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five you can hear her on the christy wright show where faith meets personal development so you can have a bigger faith and a better life you get the encouragement you want with the tough love truth you need to connect with god take control of your life and enjoy your life new episodes every tuesday on youtube and anywhere you listen to podcasts the christy wright show open phones triple

eight eight two five five two two five jeff's in daytona beach hi jeff how are you i'm doing well sir how are you doing real happy to be on the phone with you you too sir how can we help so i have a

question my wife and i are looking to install a pool in our backyard and i uh i know your your your thoughts on on pools and and getting refinancing to use the money for that but just a little bit about my wife and i have lived very financially responsible we have no debt cars are paid off we have college funds for the kids we maxed out both roth iras we're also both pension

employees with the city here so we have a pension to look forward to and we have deferred comp um we bought our we currently owe 134 on

our home our interest rate is 4.125

so we are wanting to install a pool in our backyard we have two young kids we are in what we consider our forever home and we are wanting to refinance the house and pull sixty thousand dollars out of the house to install the pool you

wanna put a sixty thousand dollar house in a hundred sixty thousand dollar pool and a hundred thirty thousand dollar house so no we only owe 130 oh i'm sorry

what's the house what's the house worth one third i'm sorry 330.

and the new rate we yep the new rate we could get would be 2.375 i said that's an expensive pool

yeah oh yeah sixty thousand dollars is an expensive pool that's uh that's that's my wife's feeling and that's uh that's uh it is yeah it's her doing you're the one calling jeff i i know it it it would be a very nice pool

and i know it's expensive but like i said we are not planning on on going anywhere at least until the kids are through high school so that's about another 13 years you know for the youngest one

okay um well what you're very clearly describing over and over and over again and you've said it six different ways is that you know this is an irresponsible bad idea

yeah but you're trying you're but you're trying to make me think it's okay so that so that you're gonna think it's okay so that they will say you're on to me i mean it's just it's um okay let's walk through it so number one i'm not against fun number two you have done a great job with your finances congratulations number three you have a clue where you are

you know exactly what's going on you're not a wandering generality you're not out of control you're you're very systematized you've been very uh beautifully done you've told me your numbers you're not you're not guessing you know exactly where you are so you have a lot of positive things going on and and then you have this uh your stomach is in your throat because you're getting ready to pay too much for a pool for a 330 000 house

it doesn't make sense to put that nice a pool on a house that expense meaning you would never recoup it ever you're b you're over building the neighborhood you have to be by definition even if there's pools all up and down your street they're not sixty thousand dollar pools and three hundred thousand dollar houses people don't do that that is true okay so number one you know you're spending too much number two you're borrowing money to buy a fun toy yes

and you know that that's not unwise and um you called the guy that was would tell you both of those things right i mean what what do you want

how can i help you could i could i run something by you you think it's going to change my mind i don't know

i try that technique jeff with my husband all the time well let me just give you one more all right let's try let's let's try it let's try it you're a good sport jeff let's try it for fun here so my wife and i we purchased the home we've been in the home about six years we purchased it for a hundred and sixty thousand dollars it has appraised quite a bit i i understand so the new if we were to refinance

um at a lower rate of 2.37 we would have

that the the mathematic equation you give out we would with the closing cost which is about 9 000 we would cover that in about three years we're going to be in the home for at least i'd say at least 10 to 15 years

and with the refinance we're only refinancing at 210 uh 210 thousand

dollars which is still substantially less than what all the homes really think it's gonna make you bankrupt okay yeah i don't think you're gonna go out of business because of this i don't think you're going to completely you know get a divorce because of financial stress that's not that's not what i'm saying i'm saying a you're borrowing money to buy a toy true even though you figured out some bass awkward sophisticated way to make

it sound okay but you're still borrowing money to buy a toy and you're over building your neighborhood both okay so if you want to do if you

want to do one if you want to do one of those over build the neighborhood okay but don't but don't borrow the money to do it gotcha so i and i so i i if i woke up in your shoes i would do one of two things uh and is do you have any money to put towards this project we would we have twenty thousand dollars that we would put uh towards but the way pools are built ever i mean it's such a hot commodity here in the state of florida right now that they're putting an 80 000 pool in oh jeff you're in more trouble now oh it's a 60 000 pool oh okay so you're borrowing you're willing to borrow 40.

yes sir i'm sorry okay no i'm misunderstood i'm misunderstood okay so you got 20.

so if you and what's your household income about 110 000 phenomenal okay

i would project that based on the fact that you two actually have done so good until we got to this conversation with your finances that the two of you could add another 20 000 to this 20 000 very quickly and pay

cash for a forty thousand dollar pool if dave and sharon ramsey were in your shoes that's exactly what we would do yes sir i'm gonna tell my wife we're gonna have to eliminate sushi sunday and that's that big that well no more it's up to you it's not a lemonade it's trade

yeah we're trading it for a pool

you eat a lot of sushi apparently but i was waiting for that but but your trade you know you're going to eliminate some lifestyle to get the pool that's what dave and sharon ramsey would do we've but we've got some nice toys in our life and i remember the first time we bought a toy we bought a little bitty dinky butt house on the lake for a hundred thousand dollars and we thought it was the oh god we just bought a second house

we're like rich people or something we have two houses it was a hundred thousand hundred three thousand dollars and uh but we pay cash for it and we've never regretted it we've never regretted owning a lake house because we pay cash for our toys and they don't come back to bite you in the butt later this is the ramsey show [Music]

we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org we absolutely believe in it

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i'm proud of my state of tennessee

and uh one of the greatest things about our state has been that we have had a great run of incredible governors

at least the last two anyway and

governor bill haslam was a governor here for two terms uh currently governor bill lee is our governor in tennessee and uh bill and i became friends during that time christie's wife as well and he was an incredible incredible governor and uh incredible not politician but statesman is a better word and has written a brand new book i i went to donald miller's house the other night with a bunch of folks in our area here that were friends of both of ours bills in mind

and uh got to hear a little bit of the reading from it and the background on it it's called faithful presence the promise and the peril of faith in the public square bill and i are both christians and it is messy when you once you say you're a christian someone disagrees with you immediately you're a fake christian immediately uh someone's got something to say about that but uh

you know how you can uh act out your faith in the public square uh bill comes from the pilot oil family his daddy is a started pilot oil and his brother owns the cleveland browns and uh if i got that right you got it right okay and uh make sure i say the right thing jimmy big jim will get me jimmy for sure you get a quick call

but yeah i'll get i'll get uh big jim would get on me i don't want big jim after that but uh big university of tennessee fans as well and alumni like we are and uh uh generosity

in that direction so a little bit of background there so bill you and i when you uh were running for governor the first time uh with your background coming from a family of means we're sitting you and chrissy and i and sharon were sitting on our back deck remember kind of getting to know each other right right a little bit and i asked you a question i said why

would you take this job because it doesn't pay that much in comparison to other things you could have done and have done in your life and you come from a family of means you didn't it's not something you needed financially and you didn't need the power you didn't need any of that why would you why would you want that job it's kind of what i said you remember that

i do i remember the conversation well and it was an honest question because i just couldn't envision it yeah well first of all you talked about the success of tennessee and ramsey and ramsey solutions is part of that story i i got to stand here where we are now when it was a field um and to see what you have done to see what you've done with

the place as we say around tennessee is impressive so first of all let me just tip it was with your help as well no cool story was a big help to us so why do i run you know we all find different ways to serve right you've been able to change thousands and hundreds thousands millions of people's lives by giving them some insight into financial um a better financial way to carry out their lives government serves a lot of different people

and it makes a difference who governs matters and um for me it just felt like a huge opportunity to serve and i know it sounds kind of corny but it felt like for me the way to to to change more lives uh for the better than than anything else i could do well and i also remember you saying you felt like god told you to i did

it well and it was a call a spiritual call is chrissy would would always remind me during the campaign campaigns aren't really much fun and she'd say okay you you are called to run the election will decide if you're called to serve [Laughter] so there was always a whole lot of well we'll see yes i will thanks for watching but she was right and so we really did feel that way

and so if you do feel that way then then you do it differently you don't do it uh with you know your own your own ends in mind bill haslam former governor of the state of tennessee the book is faithful presence the promise and the peril of faith in the public square so this your first book why write a book about this subject and why now you know uh

it is my first book it might might be my only you know some people like you have enough to cover a lot of books this might you know i only have enough for one problem but here's why you know it's no secret the country's at each other's throats uh and everybody talks about the polarization and we're not just that but we're mad um and we're not just mad

but we think the other side has bad motives the question is what are we going to do about it well jesus was pretty clear in in scripture when something was wrong he always started with us the religious types uh and he said hey if the meat's gone bad it's not the uh it's not the meat's fault it's the salt's fault the salt's not doing its job and

so this is a call to all of us who say that we want to follow jesus and then others who don't but want to know the role of faith in the public square to say what role could we have in being light in the darkness and being sought to meet and changing the tone of the conversation politics uh i you know anytime you get up in the spotlight like

i have been for many years you get the haters and you get the and you get the uh people who believe you can do anything which both are wrong right and um but the uh uh you

know you ought to run for office and i immediately just about no no i have a physical reaction it it sounds so exhausting would be balanced we know that that that's true and there would be a lot of angry people but yeah but uh it's messy it's exhausting it's sometimes ineffective why should we even care about politics well you know it says in scripture that god causes

the the sun to fall on the just and the unjust the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous so he cares about the common good and this is a way that that government impacts what we do and how life works and again think about your principles so tennessee's actually lived that way we've lived as a fiscally responsible state because of that we can keep taxes low we can attract businesses to come here

it matters the decisions you make and that affects again millions of people uh because of that so um one of the reasons i wrote the book is i don't want people to say oh a pox on both your houses i'm tired of all the argument uh i'm i'm not going to pay any attention because that's the wrong response to the current situation the the only way to fix

it is engage i stand back and throw grenades doesn't do it it's never it's never worked and by the way it's never changed anybody's mind either yeah that's true that's true so bill lee's been in office two years a little bit more about two and a half years so you know so you've been so the last 10 plus years right we've been having these conversations um it feels like to me that it's gotten a lot nastier

during that 10 years nationally yeah i don't think it just feels like it has and all the data would show you that that it's we've gone from disagreeing to think the other side has bad motives and even that being contemptuous of the other side yeah how do we get in this mess i think there's several things number one we've always been a little i mean we've always been

you know it's always been partisan you know are the founders got literally gotten duels with each other uh so so we shouldn't kid ourselves and say oh this is new but i think secondly the world's different and so with social media you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet as you know and people can say whatever they want about you keyboard keyboard courage the keyboard i love that i'm stealing that uh people can have keyboard courage people can uh people can in politics can say well

i can just go be a social media star i don't really have to solve problems so it's like i'm going to play a senator on tv i'm not going to really be one in terms of solving problems and i think the fact that folks can choose their own news and how they get it we we just tend to dig further deeper into our own beliefs and

not take any time at all to listen to is there a better way to do this yeah the ability to sit down and calmly listen to the other side is a lost art it really is and somehow we think that if we yell at the other side we're going to change their mind and that's changed nobody's mind everything doesn't you know yeah i'm going to get mad

and call you names and on twitter and that's going to make you feel better yeah and i'm going to vote your way now yeah exactly exactly faithful presence is the book the promise and the peril of faith in the public square former governor of the state of tennessee two terms bill haslam what strengths and gifts if people of faith come to the public square should they be bringing well

you think about one of those that we should bring is people always deciding am i going to be a person of truth or a person of love and we're supposed to be both we're supposed to understand that it's you know speak the truth with love we're supposed to people think well you either have to choose mercy or choose justice and we understand it's both i mean we actually have a god that lived out mercy

and justice at the same time uh and so we have a picture of that the other advantage we have is we know we're broken imperfect people that's part of the definition of being uh being a follower of jesus well if we are that then by definition we know we have the capacity to be wrong too that's not a bad place to start the discussion yeah and that makes

you a listener i hope so love your spirit love your humility appreciate your friendship you too you and sharon have become great friends thanks governor bill haslam former governor of the state of tennessee check this book out guys it's life-changing and it's really needed in the marketplace right now faithful presence the promise and the peril of faith in the public square this is the ramsay show [Music]

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five in las vegas andrew and shanae are with

us it says on my screen you guys are debt free congratulations thank you how much did you pay off

seventy eight thousand five hundred and sixty four dollars good for you awesome and how long did this take you 364 days okay there we go the one year minus a day mark okay and your range of income during that time um our range of income started about ninety seven thousand four hundred and ten and then we finished at um one hundred and forty eight thousand nine or eight hundred

and forty wow what do you guys do for a living i'm a police officer and i'm the office manager of a dental office how did you get your income up so far in one year um i worked over 901 hours of overtime

wow wow great place to go when you're broke to work huh way to go andrew man i bet you're happy this is over yeah the wife's pretty happy too she has help with kids now yeah absolutely she was a single mom for a year so uh that's what that's what my wife said yeah so uh what kind of debt was your 79 000

uh it ranged from we had a personal loan for forty two thousand dollars we had credit cards we had cars

and we had a thirty four hundred dollar vacuum cleaner of course yeah what well it does everything

or not but yeah so what was the 42 000

personal loan what was that um so we have two children and i was a stay-at-home mom for about almost three years and during that time we thought it was going to be a good idea to consolidate um a car

payment and credit cards into a consolidation loan and we were kind of you know at that time we didn't know a whole lot about paying off debt and stuff and we thought at that time that was going to be our best option and then when my daughter was born um she had a lot of medical problems and so we got behind on a payment and it kind of just downhill from

there yeah i got you okay yeah that thing you're trying to borrow your way out of debt lots of folks have tried that one you're not the only one way to go i'm so proud of you guys what started this uh this debt snowball this lit your fuse because you guys went nuts i mean you were going after it 901 hours of overtime what started all this a year ago um

so i had gone to a training with a co-worker and during the training finances had got brought up and he was saying that he was getting ready to pay cash for a million dollar home

and i looked at him and i said how is that possible like me and you have the same job we're the same age like how how are you doing this and he grew up uh in a ramsey household and so he started telling me about it and i spent a couple more days away from the family at the training just looking this stuff up came home told

the wife about it and we were just right then and there we started and we had kind of talked about actually the options of going bankrupt after that consolidation loan like went to collections and stuff because we were having all those medical problems with my daughter um and so when he came home and was talking about that it was like well we either do this or we file bankrupt

because we're not really sure what to do and we were so young that bankruptcy didn't obviously sound too enticing so this was the only other option we had and it sounded like the best thing and we kind of just went full force yeah you sure did so how did you plug into us

when we were at the training he told me your name so and then my mom had told me about you when i was in high school and something but i you don't listen to your mom when you're a teenager yeah and so once i saw someone my own age living that way is when we started i started listening to the podcast oh the podcast okay

every single day i've i have all of the books the audiobooks that i've listened to at least once a month it's just we went crazy on it okay all right cool and so the budgeting and the whole process so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is sticking to a budget yeah inconsistency i mean it gets hard and you know you especially

when you have people um you know that you're friends with or family that are kind of like oh well you know and they live in like the debt lifestyle and they're okay with credit cards and they're okay well i want the points you know i want this and so you know you have those people that kind of tell you what you're doing is silly and stuff and um

so my my opinion

is making sure that you're not listening to that because there's a lot of people that will try and tell you um you know their other ways are better and so just consistency and really knowing what your goals are and keeping keeping your goals in focus because otherwise people really do try to talk you out of it yeah there's a lot of naysayers and it's just because they don't have hope a lot of times right

and uh but who were your best cheerleaders um oh man that stuff we had i think each other honestly we had some friends outside but me and her one of us would start to feel a little discouraged or something like that and the other one would be like hey knock that off like we got this let's do this and so we just worked together as a team

it would probably be the best thing but we had some friends that stuck by yeah what kept you motivated i know a year is pretty fast for you guys to do this but there had to be some some of those times where you were getting discouraged would you what did you guys tell each other would you keep in mind to be able to stick with it i would say

it was the saying that dave has is live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else so we figured if we took a year away from being able to do all the fun things and just really put our heads to it we would have a lifetime of being able to do the fun thing that's awesome and we have a four

and a six year old and so

i think that was a lot of it too because um i really want to be able to you know send them to school and not have if that's what they choose to do and not have to have a lot of financial thing i know i grew up you know with a lot of hard like financial situations and i don't want that for my children um we've taught our we've taught our kids um

this kind of thing and like even my six-year-old he goes out and he gets a job cleaning up dog poop for friends and they pay him and we teach him how to like you know spend save and give so trying to show them a good way of living with a lot of motivation as well just trying to make sure that they can see you know that you have to work hard in order to live freely later that's awesome

so your

friend andrew who paid cash at your age for a million dollar house you know that that's your son right i really hope so yeah he's growing up in a ramsey house that's right he's growing up in a house where mom and dad are living on less than they make mom and dad don't borrow money mom and dad know how to work their butts off and you're teaching him how to work you know i mean it would do a lot of america good if at some point their kid had picked up poop for money

it could change this country it really could yeah 80 bucks a month going house to house yeah that's awesome wow that's awesome wow this kid's an entrepreneur uh no ken no pun intended but yeah

wow you guys this is incredible i'm so so proud of you guys very very well done absolutely incredible uh so here's the deal we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's uh the book about what happens now the live like no one else part now that you've done it and the legacy that we're just talking about with your kids and we've also got a copy of

the total money makeover for you to take and give to someone because now andrew you're going to be that friend that runs into somebody and starts their journey and uh that's how this works so paying it forward so again we're just so proud of you guys very very well done all right it's andrew and

shanae 79 000 paid off in

364 days with 901 hours of overtime

making 97 to 148 they are free count it

down let's hear a debt free scream

three two one winners

amazing you know it's not hard to work that hard when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel that's right and you can see that you're getting there yes i love that visual of how you said that's going to be your sun like oh you forecast into the future the ripple effect of this decision with that next generation and beyond that that's incredible change your family tree baby

you can do it and i'm talking to you yeah you you thought you were just in the car listing the radio now i'm talking to you you need to change your family tree it's in your power to do it now do it

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five

have you ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research yeah me too sometimes we all make choices dumb choices based on feelings or opinions and if you do something like that when you're buying a house yeah and this real estate market feelings are not your friend facts are your friend because everybody's gone bonkers out there check your fax

find out what you can actually afford research what's really trending in home prices talk to reputable real estate agents in your area this is not amateur

hour where mark warehouses are getting multiple offers do not let a monkey sell your house and a monkey can get a real estate license and they sell two houses and then you've listed your highest most expensive property asset with someone who doesn't know what the flip they're doing get the facts know what you're getting into and get a pro in your corner go to ramseysolutions.com agent you can plug in with one of our elps our endorsed local providers that

we have vetted their high octane high protein the top real estate agents in the nation ramsey solutions dot com slash agent that's how this works open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five tina is in austin texas hi tina welcome

to the ramsay show thank you for having me and listening i listen to your podcast a lot well thank you and um i just it's kind of like jeff

your earlier caller i feel like i'm pretty frugal i'm really good with my money um but i wanted to make sure i'm on the right track and i feel really stressed when i'm spending my money um when or when i'm using my money for myself when it's a gift or a donation no problem anybody check but then when it comes to me i get really nervous um grocery store

i don't want to binge on the five dollar chocolate or whatever right i just want to make sure i'm on the right path of um savings uh so i'm on baby step number six um paying off my mortgage i feel like i've done a really good job with everything else i skipped number five i don't have any kids um and thanks to the podcast i got really good

so intense during um the pandemic and i paid off my car this is pretty dave ramsey i've heard about you for 10 years but i never really read the book how can i help today how sorry how can i help today so i wanted to make sure that i was on the right path for um um when i paid off the mortgage i have two different homes one's a rental under an llc

and then one's my home home and then we always talk about paying that off and as soon as possible so i wanted to see which one should i pay off first um do i go get so intense and paying those off and or do i just kind of loosen up a little bit generally speaking what we do is if they're similar in payoff balance i'd pay off your home

first but if you have a tiny little rental mortgage and you want to just reach over knock it out and then come back to the home uh that's okay too we're going gonna get both of them eventually agreed yes okay so how much is owed on each

um i owe 61 205 on the rental with five years left

and then 170

with 11 years left and your income is what uh taxable income is 73.

5 000. that's how much you're getting 72 000. taxable income 73. 73. 73 000 okay

all right the w2 is a 97 yeah okay so you know the rental is substantially smaller in balance yes and if you wanted to push it up front you can uh that would be a reason to push it up front i always want to cheat towards the residents because of risk management and all that means is in an absolute horrible worst case scenario if you were going to lose one to foreclosure you'd want to lose

the rental not your home and so getting rid of the the place where you lay your head down at night having no mortgage releases you in the spirit releases your spiritual you know self a lot and then because of you know the rental property and whatever we can lose it or we can sell it and it's no big deal but where you live gives you an extra dose of peace

when it is paid off and so i tend to cheat towards that so that's a reason to put it first but the rental is very small so you can knock it out pretty fast if you get after it right right so either one is okay in this case but that's the way i look at it that's the two things i look at is it and so if

you owed 150 on the rental and 170 on your house i'd say go to your house because of what i was describing earlier but because your rental is so small if you want to go over there first you can do either one you know again you know we're only 230 thousand dollars from being completely free and that's pretty cool she's done a great job yeah it's amazing it's always good

when the question is either option is a good one that's the answer yeah you know you're in a good spot because you've done really well yeah you've done real smart uh and uh when both answers are smart answers right yeah that's a that that's a lot better than both answering your dumb answers yeah i've been there too i've done both uh joey's and how does hattiesburg hi joey how are

you hi dave how are you doing today better than i deserve what's up well i'm 20 years old

i own two businesses one is a startup but the other has been running for about three years um well for the one that's been running i owe 176 thousand dollars on the business 104 of that is owner finance loan um 63 of it is through a bank and then 9k is minor debt well i know the general rule is never to take out of an ira however i'm hoping that you'll give me permission for an exception um i've got a cd for 64 000 and an

inherited ira for 700 i'm sorry 79 000

not bad okay the inherited ira 79 and the cds how much 64 000. okay all right uh the owner finance loan um the one for 104k said if i paid in full they would take 10 off meaning i would save 10 400 on principal another 17 000 in

interest and my idea is to use that cd put that

towards it and take the other 30 000 ira yeah an inherited ira i would do that when did you get the inherited ira

oh um three years ago for my father okay i'm sorry sorry for your loss there um

yeah and where did the cd come from same thing same thing um it was life insurance okay and what kind of business are you running at 20 years old that you won 170 000 in debt for um it's a vending machine business it started out as two hundred and sixty thousand um and i've been able to get it down to there you're making money

um yes um to be fair during corona it was barely paying for itself but nevertheless paying for itself how much do you make a month gross right now gross i mean it varies for month month but on average 8k

it's an idea yeah okay

so you're making like 30 grand a year profit as of right now yes um but i've had that's because a lot of my business is taken away i'm regaining it back um now that coverage is coming to an end

in mississippi

absolutely okay yeah i would have thought it would be back mississippi's open it is but like the schools which is more than half of my business oh okay all right all right that does explain it okay and now you're out for the summer

exactly that's the reason my average is so low yeah okay all right that's helpful because i'm just afraid for you these are these numbers scare the crap out of me and here's number here's the thing yes i would answer your question yes i would do this i would take the cd and enough out of the inherited and pay the loan off i would also try to negotiate down more than a 10 discount

because they probably need the cash offer them 20 off and just see what they say all they can do say no all we'll do is 10 right so just say i'm having to cash out my dad's when he passed away inherited ira and it's making me feel funny i'll do this if you'll do 20 throw a little emotion in there see what you can get them to do

and uh here's the thing i want you to walk away with don't do this again you won't have another one of these shots to clean up this mess next time you get ready to grow a business or buy a business you pay cash for it don't do this again i'm scared for where you were you're

getting a one-way ticket out don't you go back that wasn't unclear was it no you you covered it well this is the ramsey show

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hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to the ramsay show dot com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today

as we answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple

eight eight two five five two two five kai is with us in

orlando is it k or kai kai kai cool how can we help

so i'm i'll be on baby step two and i'm working an extra job where i'm an independent contractor and i think i can pay off my debt in way before next taxis and certainly by the end of this year should i set aside taxes still or should i should i wait till later to get rid of those taxes ready yeah you're going to want to go ahead

and set those aside go ahead and plan for them do you know you have projections of what you're what you're planning to do this fall uh yes so um so it's just an ex it's an

actual a couple hundred dollars a week but uh it's it's my second it's soon to be third job um and my total uh debt is seven thousand six hundred dollars what do you make uh not counting this job uh that'd be about 32 000 yeah i'm just i'm getting actually getting ready to start the job next week okay oh cool cool well here's the here's the tech you're just out of college yes sir okay cool here's what we're

the proper way to do this is to file quarterly estimates on the profits of your business when you're an independent subcontractor you're technically running a business you have a sole proprietorship okay my guess is you don't have any expenses associated with the business that are deductible do you i guess not other than maybe gas and mileage okay are you what are you driving like uber each or something uh yeah it's a grocery delivery okay all

right yeah you will have some deductions there you'll want to keep track of all that yeah you want to keep track you can either write off uh the mileage by the

irs guideline or you can write off the expenses associated with the car one of the two usually in your case the mileage is going to be a better way okay so you have a deduction so let's say that um your miles amount to 50

a week that you can write off and you make 200 a week your profit would be 150 then you're following me yes sir so what i would tell you to do is this number one um uh you can probably just jump online

and look and see what the irs is allowing per mile and just keep up with your mileage keep a log book of your miles okay and you can do it electronically you can do it in an old-fashioned log book if you want to either one but you need to keep up with it in case they question you someday you need to have the records that questioning you is called an audit okay

so i don't think that'll happen but but you don't want to get burned on this so now so you take the my the allowable rate per mile times the mile you drive and deduct that as an expense

and then once a quarter you're supposed to file a quarterly estimate it's a one-page thing it's very easy to do with the irs and it amounts to all of the money you made at the grocery delivery in this case minus the deduction you're taking for all the miles during that quarter that three month period of time okay the difference is called profit what you brought in minus

the miles is your profit you following me yes times your tax rate and you're going to send them a check for that amount once a quarter on your taxes and so i don't

want you to wait until next year to pay your taxes because you're going to get penalized possibly for not paying them on time because you're supposed to do it once a quarter technically and then when someone does that when someone pays quarterly when they actually comes around a tax time aren't they just kind of reconciling the difference at that point it's just so much simpler on you as well you won't oh if you do it properly you won't owe any taxes on this portion of your income next uh spring when you file your taxes

okay and i don't want that to sneak up on you and hit you in the back of the head later because we said oh don't worry about taxes do that later no yeah that'll get you burnt right there man so just go ahead and stay stay ahead of the game the last snake you want to play with is the irs snake it bites and dave for clarification for anybody listening right now that is in a similar situation don't

you recommend percent if you're not sure what your tax rate is yeah twenty-five percent set aside out of your income yeah so as you're making it through that three-month period of time you can kind of be doing this calculation i'm going to take the mileage off and 25 of the difference i'm going to set aside in a savings account to be ready to pay those quarterly estimates yep

and that's that way you'll have the money when the quarterly estimate comes up because it's you and i have with business boutique and with entre leadership we have talked to thousands of people who got themselves in serious tax trouble they do not pay quarterly taxes they don't even know they need to pay them and they don't really realize the benefit to themselves if they do of just setting aside that as

you get the income as you get the revenue that you set aside that twenty five of your profit needs to be set aside on a separate savings account it's just for taxes don't touch it it's tax money you're withholding on yourself is all you're doing you're just doing what they supposedly do for you with withholding they seldom do it right there you go open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five cole is

with us in utah hi cole welcome to the

ramsey show hey dave and christy uh thanks for taking my call i'm very excited sure what's going on yeah so i'm an interesting situation um i started a i have a stable job as a full-time fireman in vegas i live in utah and i started a side gig to

help me to stay home more to supplement some income and now that income has

grown and the problem i'm having is i work 100 hours a week about and i have three babies at home and i want to be home more so i'm trying to figure out if i should step away from my stable job and lose that sense of security and stick with a commission-based job or what that's going to look like how far away from vegas do you live

it takes me about two and a half hours to get to my fire station from my house

i don't understand that you do you do this once a day four days a week no so i work two days on and four days off so i do a 48 hour yeah schedule so i drive down once or twice a week and then i come back and then on your off days you have a side gig that's kicking butt yeah i'm a real estate agent so i started doing that and it took my income from just fire about 70 and now i'm doing over 300.

okay uh now quit now driving

yesterday a long time ago

why do you have to think about it what is the question it's i know the market is hot now and it's doing well as an agent but if it's gonna slow down and my income could drop

back down low and the security

well if i step away from the fire job on the fire department i lose that that stability and that stable income yeah you lose five hour commutes and

you're we see your three small children dude you should have quit like 30 years ago wow like by the end of the week you're not a fireman anymore that's it

you have no life go get you a life

wow you are not afraid of hard work though this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five summer's almost here but that does not mean you can take a vacation from your money goals motivation to stay intense can go away i understand but especially when you want that beach trip or this kind of stuff the old vacation uh waves in front of you and you go stop your whining listen

if you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else if you will vacate like no one else meaning not at all later you can vacate like no one else meaning anywhere you want to go baby and

there's some cool places in this world you ought to be able to you ought to be rich enough to go see but you're not going to get there if you keep spending money like you're in congress so it's time to straighten up a ramsay plus membership gives you our best digital money course

financial peace university all of our digital money courses are there smart money smart kids know yourself know your money they're all in there legacy journey all the tools like the every dollar premium the world's best budgeting app all of this helps you keep moving forward it's about getting small wins that lead to big results your goals are worth working for all year long stay motivated with a free trial of ramsey plus text trial 233 789 that's trial two three three seven eight nine thanks for joining us america we are glad you are here

christy it's worth going back to our firemen for a minute yeah okay seventy thousand dollars a year two and a half hours each way commute

but he made three hundred thousand in real estate she had a 370 000 income three little kids at home he's working 100 hours a week in in our minds it was and in most of our listen most of you listening you were going why this guy quit already why in the world is he still doing this fire thing and what that says is this guy is tremendously driven by a need for security

and he falsely believes that the fire fireman's job is more secure than the real estate jobs yeah and that's a falsehood which is interesting too because i've noticed a pattern where we've had some similar calls not the same question where it's well when is it okay to do this and it's like it was okay ten years ago but it's that we we hold on there's this fear that keeps us trapped in some idea that that

we we're not there we don't have enough the what if i lose my job i've heard you ask people well how stable is your job they're like oh i don't know something could happen but it's a very stable job they've been there for 20 years and the industry's secure and and so it's just interesting how fear i feel like is this shadow that haunts us

and because we never really pin it down and define us it can always torment it's like what if what if what if but the scenarios are not even remotely probable they're not realistic well and when it comes to your income it can be the tapes that were played in your house when you were growing up in the sense of always get a good job and the definition of a good job is that

it that it's always going to pay yeah it's a steady work it's steady it's in its income you can count on and versus being self-employed or straight commission yeah which is an unstable job right but it's not necessarily an unstable income what's interesting though is i'm curious have you seen a correlation between uh preference in terms of like salary commission you know however it's structured by personality style

because like no i think i think it's just a uh it would be back to rachel's book know yourself know your money it's abundance versus scarcity or it's um you know we all have one of those uh but the the scarcity mentality i would just go with that as an example and that could be any personality style but it usually would go back to your uh the way

you were brought up the household you grew up in and um [Music] and you will either react way to the opposite of the way you grew up or you'll try to do the same thing again one of the two and but very seldom just in the middle yeah until you look up and you go wait a minute the way i was brought up is what's influencing this not

the facts feelings are not facts yeah and and so uh here's an example okay if you've made three hundred thousand dollars in a white hot real estate market if the real estate market cools off you've done enough transactions you know how to do a transaction you ought to you ought to it's logical

the facts would indicate that the chances of you making uh let you know one-third of what you used to make or greater

is very high based on your track record

right and how long you've been doing this you've been doing it longer you have word of mouth you have referrals there's there's not enough transactions that if you if you didn't make 300 but the market cooled off and you only made 100 but you used to make 70 as a fireman you still came out ahead so that it ought to give you all kinds of emotional breathing room to be able to quit the quote-unquote steady job but

here's the problem people think that where they work is how what makes it steady and it's not your talent and ability to land a job doing

something is what makes is the only thing that gives you stability and so if you're a high quality salesperson you can always land a job in doing sales always in any marketplace at any time

now you may have to change you might you might be doing medical devices and later you might be doing cars or later you'd be doing cars and later you're doing medical devices or pharmaceuticals i don't care but a sales person that knows how to sell and has worked on straight commission and knows how to has a high relational iq regardless of the personality type has a proven track record you're only as secure as your own ability

the fact that the that it's the government that pays the firemen makes you secure no what makes you secure is you have the ability to leave the cave kill something and drag it home and it's proven that's where your security comes from and and so but and you have to use those as dr john dolone would say we use facts are our friends and the way we overcome trauma

is uh we calm down and we deal with facts not the emotions of the situation and i think that releases people to go live their dreams then yeah it's interesting too because it's when you break it down like that it helps people see oh i had some beliefs about stable versus unstable job that had nothing to do with what the company is or where the money comes from we've seen something similar

when it comes to non-profit or for-profit status and building a business so i work with a lot of business owners and they say well i want to i want to structure my business as nonprofit because i want it to somehow be holy and do work that matters because as if the irs designation is somehow the holiness factor and so we'll have i will attach ideas to statuses especially in relation to government that are not actually accurate at all

but i have a friend that owns a small business that has grown year over year over year over year for 20 years he's not made his personal income out of that business that he paid taxes on for the last 20 years has not been under a million dollars a year that's incredible yeah that's incredible yeah

but and so is his income stable yes for 20 years yes yeah you know but

it's all but but cove had affected it yeah covett could have dr you know could have dried up his market could have done but is his income stable yes yeah it's an income statement it's got 20 years right of being able to do this it wasn't one time right it wasn't just not this young man here was he it was one time and it isn't just during why dot covid

and so forth but he's out there still getting stuff done he's there's a lot of real estate agents who haven't even been able to figure out how to sell a house in this mess which means you really do need to get out of the business but um i mean because god almighty anything can sell a house right now but the uh but but you know maybe you won't make 300

but you've got 300 000 of income that many transactions under your belt that says you know how to look at people and get them to the closing table yeah on the par on the purchase of their next home their dream yeah you know i participate with them in that in a way that causes them to do the transaction yeah and and so that is stable yeah and to your point where you're paid or who's paying

you doesn't make it stable right and to your point your second year if the market cools off and you take a small dip your dip is still way ahead of where you were in the firemen job so you have to look at it in relation to what you're comparing it to as if somehow 70 000 is stable when you're talking about even a dip would still be way above that which makes his call for most people listening a no-brainer yeah

but for something inside of him that was holding on to this false notion of where stability comes from stability comes from your ability

say it again stability comes from

your ability it doesn't come from anywhere else and god's blessings but it doesn't come from anywhere else but those two things this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five on the la on the debt-free stage in the lobby of ramsey solutions chris and amanda are with us hey guys how are you doing very well thank you welcome welcome good to have you where do you guys live ozarks awesome beautiful area huh yeah it is cool and all the way down here to do a debt-free scream how much did you pay off 278 767

wow how long did this take four years

one month and 19 days i love it and your range of income during that time about 130 135 140 somewhere in there what do you guys do for a living um we're in higher education both of us what are your professors uh-huh yeah cool good for you yeah thank you i teach chemistry for a junior college um i'm a chair over a masters of science and nursing program and i teach in that program as well wonderful awesome very cool so uh i was gonna say four years and 279

000 might be a mortgage but that might be student loans a lot of it we had to pay for a lot of brains between the two of us we have been purchasing brains yes we have five degrees between the two of us it's wow too much we over degreed ourselves

it was wow bad decisions all around okay

your professors we are using it yeah and you know what honestly we're lifelong learners we love to learn you know so it was really good we love to teach we love our students both of us we're really passionate about it we just um you know regrets about getting there the way that we got there but um that's okay because we were able to get out of it and now we're kind of on the other hand it definitely is yeah so how four years ago the time that you finished the last degree then

uh yeah we started the program about um

a half a year before i completely finished my phd okay okay so you're doing dissertation and stuff because you're doing it i was yeah wow yeah what's your phd in uh educational technology i'm online teaching is sort of my specialty so wow you got a little bit of a future wow you talk about stepping into them yeah and a dissertat and a dissertation in the middle of a pandemic huh well yeah just leading up to

it no no no no you started four years ago i'm sorry i'm sorry i am in healthcare so you know yeah wow yeah amazing yeah very cool

very cool good for you guys so uh how

long have so you were you were working on your phd how long y'all been married almost 22 years now oh okay yeah so

somewhere along the line of this journey of gathering degrees and education and lifelong learning and all of this five years ago or so something happened into the 22 marriage what happened so 2017 uh well late 2016 we just got to the point or at least i felt like you know all the money that was going out you know versus all what's coming in it just ended up being nothing left over

it just felt like a financial abyss at the end of it so that's how i felt but what about you yeah i think that um we are both people of integrity and we knew that we were signing for something that we were eventually going to have to pay and i think as i got closer and closer to the end of my educational journey i was watching it come my

friends some of them were going bankrupt some of them were starting to get their bills in the mail because you know they don't start billing you for those student loans until you're out and so i was seeing the size of their bills and their bills were like mortgage payments or more and i mean it was giving me a visceral reaction yeah and i think we just both of us just went oh

you know the the piper's coming like we're gonna have to figure out a plan to get this taken care of and we're both people of logic

and it was so nice to have this to sort of latch onto to say okay here's a plan here's a proven method that we can use to to sort of work our way through step by step

connected to us um i watch a lot of youtube videos and i just was following somebody who used the ramsay plan cool and um we got the book and we both read it and we decided we were going to get on board and it was very let's say i think it was intimidating to go up against that large number after we actually let the monster out of

the closet because it really felt that way but and i think um you know after we started budgeting and actually doing it and following it then we start gaining confidence um and you know since it was such a four-year long journey you know probably in the middle of it felt you know felt stagnant but we were making progress so we kept going you know but the last year went a lot faster of course with covet everybody was at home

so there was no way you're going to spend money anyway so you know it was we leveraged the advantage of you know we were paying off all the student loans at the end because they were the big biggest part yeah and

so you know we just kept going it's gone so we don't have to worry about it so i'm i'm interested with um the amount of education and you said

we're people of logic um when you uh

because so much of what we do we approach this through almost emotion yeah or behavior modification anyway but when you when you lay down like the baby steps in front of you or the debt snowball in front of you it was just instantaneous you just saw it said okay let's do it i mean i i think that i watched other people sort of on youtube who had done

it and and were successful and i said well it worked for them we can make this work for us too but we've always sort of plowed face-first into life and just done things with a lot of confidence that we we are a team and we're going to be able to conquer this thing so i think this was no different i think we just sort of came into

it very confidently like it may take us and my first calculation we did the excel spreadsheet at the very beginning was that it was going to be seven years and you know we got it done in four a little a little over four we just picked up all the overtime and overload that we could pick up but what do you attribute the difference the difference between four

and seven well i think it just working together at the same goal versus just kind of doing whatever the individual wanted to yeah you were able to sacrifice deeper than you thought when you did this yeah we did we definitely did it's on the shirt i mean we're a team and it's so different working together

it's one of those things like my students there's nothing a student hates worse than a group project really but it's such a valuable skill to be able to work with another person and to enhance each other's strengths and also work against each other's weaknesses but also to work towards a common goal you almost it's it's more than one plus one is two it's you one plus one is three you know it's more than that so team cole does have their own little university emblem there it's pretty cool they have uniforms

they probably have a soccer team yeah

we're not sports people

well done you guys i'm so proud of you so okay when people ask now you paid off 279 000 in four years in one month how did you do that what's the secret to getting out of debt i think being a team and sticking to the budget even if you don't have the confidence yet i think you gain that over time and you gotta both show up to

the meeting you can't get to scape out on it you can't get to skip a month yeah and i think working the plan um you know you find that plan that works and then you commit yourself to it you've i mean a million people have said this on the show but you have to submit yourself to the actual plan and not try to do ish um nobody is

the exception nobody's the exception to the role everybody thinks they're the exception but you know the rules are there for a reason and it works so yeah they're they're there because they work now with other reason there's nothing here to punish you it's still it's a bless you yeah so proud of y'all thank you very very well thank you very much who were your biggest cheerleaders outside

the two of you uh well obviously the two of us but we had some family and then i think my daughter was amazing

smart fester who has followed us through this whole thing so now we're actually using him yeah so he helped us out thank you rick and then we um also have an elp with a realtor so we're oh my god yeah it was one of the coolest things it was at the end of all of this we were able to um move into our dream home

we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story legacy is all about the what this is all about and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and pay it forward to somebody you guys are impressive very well done rock stars heroes well done chris and amanda from ozark missouri 279

000 paid off at four years in a month making 135 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three three two one

[Music] [Applause]

wow that is so awesome what a great story

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day lamentations 3 22 23 because of the lord's great love

we are not consumed for his compassions never fail they are new every morning great is your faithfulness

henry ford said the only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing

chrissy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air nathan is with us in minnesota hi nathan welcome to the ramsey show hello thank you for taking my call sure what's up so i'm i'm currently an accountant for a large company i've been there about 14 years my gross income is about 180 000 per year i'm married i have three small children

my wife and i don't have any debt we have about three hundred thousand dollars in uh iras and and um 401ks through my

employer to my wife's employer i have about forty five thousand dollars in savings uh and right now i have the opportunity to buy into a well-established tax practice with one other person i currently have a cpa my my half investment in the business would be about a ninety thousand dollar uh share and the gross proceeds of the of the tax practice is about two hundred thousand annually

so my my cut of that my half would be about a hundred thousand and we would operate it as you know s corpse each uh myself and the other individual and so i'm just trying to assess you know what that kind of pay cut would would mean to my current life situation

where you have 45 000 where are you getting the other 45 to put the 90 into it um actually so i've i've met with the current tax practice owner and the other person who who's looking at buying it and it would be over basically over a two year time frame so not not next tax season but the following so by the time i would be transitioning into this tax practice i would have the 90 000 saved up in cash to just pay good pay for the half of the business okay and uh i assume you

project that you can grow the business then correct okay and um the there's going to be one sub s corp and each of you are going to own 50

that's correct okay all right well i'm sorry no each of us would would have an s corp on our on our own and basically the so whatever tax returns we or whichever clients and tax returns we

fill or we fill out we would uh take those proceeds oh actually okay so you would have to settle you would have a book of business and he would have a book of business but you're basically sharing office space under the umbrella of the larger okay okay all right that works and that makes it easy to manage and um you know we know who owns what then that you actually own those clients

that's correct okay that's good that's a clean way to do it i i would suggest you get uh just as a sidebar uh some legal advice on putting together uh it's not really partnership agreement but it might actually be how these two sub-s's are going to interact share expenses and you always cover all the negative things we call them the ds divorce drug use default disability death what happens in

the event of these things and so you address those things up front but that's a fairly normal process in the type of business that you're going into normally i steer away from partnerships but this is a unique this is like a medical practice in a sense they're a law practice in a sense that it's done differently so i'm fine with it right so you make 180 your wife makes what

uh right now she's at about 35

but she she'll be starting a new job in the fall where she'll be around 60 60

to 65.

okay so you would take an 80 000 pay cut year one but she would have picked up 35 000 of that that's correct okay and and her concern is around you know right now we have very cheap health care through my employer that covers our whole family and she she would work for a school and her her health care package to through her employer is is not nearly as good as mine so it's really just the the uncertainty around yeah it's not that's not that's whoop-dee-doop-dee that's not a big deal okay yeah you just need to run your numbers and create a budget based on this new income i think when you can see it on paper and see how you can live on this new income including whatever health care increase in health care costs then you're going oh yeah we can do it it just feels scary because you can't see it you haven't put it on paper yet but you may have 220 now you'll be at 160 then or 165 then and uh on your way back to 220.

to god you can make it on 160 you don't have any debt right it's that perceived fear we were just talking about yeah so chrissy's right you need to the two of you need to write it down and actually look at it when you look at actually what the health care difference is it's a penance compared to your income yeah it's not going to be 10 of your income it's not going to be five percent of your income it's going to be two percent of your income that's affected by this it's that perceived security because it's coming from somewhere else and now you're going to be doing it on your own and you just need to see how you can do it and that will help relief from some of that yeah your big hit is going from 180 to 100.

of lowell now i haven't worked been responsible in your current situation for building the book of business where you are or were you just executing widgets yeah i i manage um a large portion of the of one side of the business so all the budgeting and the financial oversight of it so well the acquisition of new clients

um no we're we're a large uh yeah

that's what i'm talking about i thought so okay so that's a skill you don't have

proven that you'll need to get in order to raise your 100 000 income to 200 000. that's a true point yes yeah so we

some you know you're gonna learn about practice management marketing client acquisition development of new new books of business all all of those kinds of things to grow grow grow grow grow uh rather than just simply churning out tax returns uh and so that that can be that could be the challenge of this situation but there's tremendous upside and i love the idea of what you're doing yeah yeah

and you could use those slower seasons to work on those the skills and clinic client acquisition yeah it's uh but this is a really good move i definitely would do this haley is with us in dallas haley i'm short on time go straight to your question yes uh hi i'm uh i lost my job in

september as a director uh making a hundred and thirty thousand uh i'm talking to a recruiter today uh for a senior director position fortune 100 company i'm trying to

negotiate a higher salary but i'm not sure how much i should negotiate for

have you done your research on what the company pays what the position pays any of that kind of digging yeah i've looked online and i'm not really sure what to trust as far as the numbers go but i uh

i indicated i wanted a 148 000.

okay so you've already put a number out there i did she gave me an offer today for 125 000.

which was really low and i told her it was that i really wasn't that i was interested in a higher salary than that i just don't know since i you know lost my job and i haven't really gotten a lot of callbacks um i just didn't want to settle for something low but i don't know what's the right salary well if you're worth 150 in the market

i would wait unless you're unless you're having trouble paying the bills have you got some backlog have you got some money um yeah i'm doing good okay as many days yeah then you know don't take it lower job just out of lack of confidence then but the question is you need to do a detailed comp study and uh you know more than one site on the internet can help

you do that there's plenty of places we do comp studies around here all the time on what a senior director in that region where that company is is being paid and present that back to the headhunter and say look this is what the comp study says it says they're 25 000 low that puts us hour today ramsey showing the books we'll be back with you before you know

it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to thermzyshow.com

thanks for listening [Music]

you

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## 225. The Ramsey Show (Replay of the 2022 Annual Giving Show)


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foreign

[Music] ERS of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting

from the PODS moving and storage Studios it's the Ramsay show where debt is dumb

cash is king and the paid off Home Mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice we help

people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five but before you dial the number you need to know that this show today is dedicated

to generosity so we're going to take calls from folks today that have a giving story

a generosity story they were on the receiving end or the giving end of generosity because it is the season tis

the season this is uh well Christmas reminds us how

important generosity is and uh it is

live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else Rachel Cruz number one best-selling author Ramsay personality and my daughter is my co-host today as we take your calls about giving it's our annual generosity show our annual giving show

so we want to hear from you if you've got a great giving story you can jump in the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five Merry Christmas

to you triple eight eight two five five

two two five Kim is going to start off this hour in Kenton Ohio hi Kim tell us

your giving story Merry Christmas um hello Dave hello Rachel um thank you for having me on the show um this is my giving story back in

February my husband died of um covid and I took a portion of the

life insurance money and gave it towards my church's um debt elimination wow

November 26th my sons were there and we

all they saw me write the check fill out the envelope we laid hands and prayed over the check and the boys put it in the offering and my husband he was a

amazing Giver he gave to people all the

time he gave cars and trucks and vans and cash to families in need he gave wood and fuel oil to older people that

needed heat in the winter he just gave it was his it was who he was and um it was such a blessing to be his wife it's such a blessing to give

in his honor and his legacy and our

church um there down to 270

000 left on their mortgage and 12 years

ago it was a 14 million dollar mortgage so wow wow that's so powerful I'm so sorry for your loss um thank you thank you that was the motivator you know for this um so I'm curious for you when you received that life insurance obviously his legacy was one of giving right the way you just described to him is just beautiful um so what made you choose this specific way to give well I felt that you know

every year he gave to the Legacy offering and there's usually a project that the church is doing and this was his life insurance money um I wanted to give a tithe of it to the to

the Legacy offering so that he would continue giving throughout all the years as a legacy um I was going he wanted me to retire he

wrote these letters about me retiring and he had me call Dave I actually wrote

a letter because I didn't think I could get through the um phone call but um Dave gave me a um

a coach a financial coach her name is Lisa Lisa Barber and I worked with her for the last 10 months and throughout that process I came to I didn't want to

retire I want to continue to fulfill

God's will for my life which I'm a teacher and I love teaching children how to read I love being at the school I feel like I'm here for such a time as this so instead of taking

a portion of the re of the life insurance and buying out so that I could retire early instead I decided to continue working

continuing following God's will for my life and take God's will for his life and pay you know give it to the legacy

of my husband for God's kingdom to grow

that's that's how I came Acro came about

that whole process at Lisa helped me make these decisions that I did make them myself you know wow well at least as a precious lady you got a hold of a good one there so that's good stuff dad I love her yes yes I do love her what an eventful thank you for giving me that yeah what an eventful year you've had uh unbelievable highs unbelievable lows and uh it's very poignant very beautiful great story and how old are your sons

24 year old and a 23 year old okay

young men were able to sit there and see their dads uh see their mom write this

check from their dad's life insurance into this and and they get to have that imprint on the rest of their life that thumb print on the rest of their life that was very well played

um thank God that I was able to do that for for all you know for all to see that

yeah amen thank you for sharing Miss Kim God bless you honey and a Merry Christmas to you that's a great story a horrible start uh to the story in a beautiful end or a beautiful Next Step whatever we want to call it I don't know how to say how what you're saying that but uh uh without saying something dumb and awkward but yeah but uh uh it's

amazing that when people are in pain uh that generosity is something that automatically comes to mind yeah that's what I was going to say is that there's like a lot of these stories that we hear and that we'll probably hear today right that there's there's some level of people's stories that that pain is always a part of it right that that is that is a part of life

and I think that that scale is different for everyone depending on their specific story uh but man the depths of that pain in her case I'm like was the depths of her longing in that selflessness right and I think that that's a way to even combat and and and I'm sure helped with the grief like there's a level too of when you're giving and serving it's you are putting

your eyes elsewhere and there's just Beauty in that absolute Beauty

generosity is uh

considerably underrated as a healing agent it completely changes the chemistry of your body it completely changes the set

of your emotions it completely changes your spiritual walk it literally will

change the way you walk when you become generous and the more outrageously generous you become the more free you are as a person you find very few people who are depressed who

are outrageously generous

something to think about because what happens is I mean chemicals are released in your body that you get a high from being generous I mean it's it's unbelievable it is the most fun to

have with money there's so much to it there's more so much more than the math so much more than the individual person that's helped on the other end of the check there's so so many layers to this subject this is the annual giving show on the Ramsay show and we want to hear from you Rachel Cruz is with me the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five call us with your giving story or your receiving story we're celebrating generosity Merry Christmas

[Music]

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[Music]

thank you [Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today as we talk about giving

today this is our annual giving show we're talking about generosity if you have a story about generosity giving or uh or or receiving that is inspiring and

will help everyone all of us expand our our vision for generosity that's what this is for the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five Wayne is in Lincoln Nebraska hi Wayne welcome to the Ramsay show hey thanks for having me sure my uh so after my first deployment I came came

home in 2009 and was out running around

eating all the food that I'd missed and stopped at a burger joint there was a homeless man walking along the sidewalk so I just offered to have lunch offered for him to come have lunch with me and we ended up talking for several hours but

he had gotten married in 1966 in 67 he

was sent over to Vietnam where he was shot in the head and suffered some

severe brain damage he was unable to take care of himself and true to their vows his wife took care of him until the day that she died and so for three years he was completely homeless had no idea what to do um we had lunch and I ended up working with some of my

unit leadership and some local veterans organizations and this guy ended up getting a full VA disability and

now has a place to stay in a VA Veterans Home in uh in that Dallas area wow

man you took it up you took it up and ran with it way to go dude but it doesn't take a a huge Act of

money to completely change somebody's life and I think sometimes people get overwhelmed with that thought yeah it some it often takes more time than it does money in your case that's for sure time and effort yeah and a lot of caring yeah and that still

is a um an act of generosity in in a

maybe even in a greater way because so many people don't have any time they don't take any time they don't have any margin in their lives to stop and concentrate on someone else for a few minutes they're so busy doing themselves what's his name Wayne Jared Jared okay so for you

as you know you you obviously have completely changed the course of his life which is just absolutely incredible and like you said I love that it's more on that time and effort standpoint not just money right you you walked with him to be able to do that so you changed his life what ways has he

impacted you on you know even a day-to-day basis how how has your life been shifted because of him prior to that event happening I'd kind

of grown up with this belief that homeless people were you know lazy and drug addicts that stereotype that's not always true and after this I started

slowing down and really thinking Well everybody's got a story everybody's really got problems and it's never what it looks like on the

surface that's for sure that's for sure everybody's got a story wow powerful dude powerful well done sir

thank you for calling with your story Merry Christmas to you Wayne hey everyone that is calling in with their uh giving story today and the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll receive the live and give bundle the live and give box it has in it a one-year membership

to Financial Peace University it has in it a Total Money Makeover book it has in it a baby steps millionaires book and that is on sale for 99 which is about 50 60 bucks off of retail right now at ramseysolutions.com but each of these callers will be getting that uh live and give box uh as they call in today and of

course you know if you've got somebody that's just getting started with the stuff you hand them The Total Money Makeover book maybe you're down the road a little ways and you're ready to start really doing your investing and you're going to read the baby steps millionaires book um and maybe you've got someone that needs to go through Financial Peace University or maybe it's you so there's three different things there that apply to different situations different places people are in their money journey and so the live and give

box be sure to check that out and like I

say we're giving everybody the calls into day one Mary is with us Mary's in Atlanta Georgia hi Mary welcome to the Ramsey Show hi hi Dave hi Rachel um

thank you all so much for having me on the show to share um our story a small gift but one that I hope has been having a big positive impact on my niece and nephew love it tell us about it so just a little bit of brief background during covid lockdowns my niece and nephew really started to struggle they were both in middle school at the time their social life evaporated their mental health plummeted and they unfortunately started failing classes in virtual school so at the time my husband

and I had just had our first baby I was actually laid off in 2020 at seven months pregnant so we were living off of just his income and our budget was pretty tight but we decided initially just to host each kid for a special weekend once a month to get them out of the house they can do very fun cheap things in our neighborhood and generally just love on them my assistant sisters excuse me my husband's sister actually joined us in this and so it became this really fun family affair later the three

of us decided to offer a grade Bounty it was pretty generous 20 bucks for each a 10 bucks for each B and I am unbelievably happy to say that my niece has made a healthy return on the time she's invested in studying for about two years now she just started high school this fall and earned a 4.0 her first semester we're really really proud of her so

this is especially important because her parents do not have any money to pay for her college but the state of Georgia will cover all of her tuition through the Hope Scholarship if she has at least a 3.0 GPA at the end of high school so we've talked us about student loan and how she could avoid them and she is really eager to keep those out of her encouraging her to do that my nephew's also gotten himself a part-time job

and his grades started to improve too so I did want to just say thank you to y'all for the teaching and encouragement that you offer around Financial generosity because I struggle with the scarcity mindset sometimes so it's hard to do for me on occasion but I really like the idea of living with an open hand and just practicing generosity like a muscle until you're good at it amen well done good job Mary that's fun

hey be sure to walk those kids uh The Borrowed future documentaries free to watch on YouTube now I know we usually watch a movie when they come over for weekends and I keep telling my husband let's watch Barbara's future there's fun stuff on Disney plus and that'll seal in the uh no uh no debt

to college idea if you watch that you see how horrible the whole student loan system is yeah that'll seal that in for sure hey uh let me ask you something you said scarcity mindset and you're practicing a new muscle um what does it do to the scarcity mindset

my theory is is that it moves you from scarcity towards abundance the more you're generous or maybe it's the other way around maybe you're after you move more towards abundance you're willing to be more generous I don't know which is the cause which is the effect which the chicken the egg what do you think Mary I I really think it's about perspective because you know I'm sitting in my little house in Atlanta that my husband

and I own thinking oh we don't have enough to give away but there are so many people with less than that who

really don't have enough that they could be generous and so it's more about recognizing what's fear and what's fact and then deciding like that you want to

share what you have with people that you really love or just people in your community and I mean once we started doing it really has gotten so much easier and so much more joyful to do I'm

I'm not gonna lie like the first few times we did this we started like giving money away I was like oh God how I want to make the grocery budget this month but really it's been absolutely fine you hadn't missed a meal no well Mary what I love about your story is I'm like you were so um you took the needs very specifically of what they needed in

the time right so like during the lockdown it's like they just needed to get out of the house and that's what you provided and then as they were starting to not do great in school then you're like okay well let's plug in here so it's like whether it's the time the money all of it but but being so intentional Mary which you really are in their lives to see what do

they need and what can you do to maybe help fill that Gap and so that's I think that's amazing so really really well done yeah extremely well done Mary Merry Christmas to you excellent excellent job

it is uh you know that that kind of

intentionality comes from Real Love and that that's tied into real generosity this is the Ramsay show

[Music]

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thank you [Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Merry Christmas America Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality number one bestselling author my daughter is my co-host today this is our annual giving show where we celebrate generosity where

you have been able to do something for someone or for something and you want to

celebrate that generosity or maybe you're celebrating someone did something for you it's okay either way we all love these stories generous people make us smile generous people make our eyes leak we love generous people and all of us do all humans do I mean you got to be a real weirdo to hate somebody that's generous so that's what we're celebrating this hour and this day on our annual giving show

the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five and part of this giving show tradition is we always bring in one of our our some of our 1100 members of

Ramsey Solutions our team members and Jess is on the stage Jessica's with us and uh got a great giving story hey Jess

how are you doing how are y'all doing great great merry Christmas Merry Christmas well tell everybody about your story it's fabulous yes so you talk about people giving to you and you being able to give to other people this story is a little bit of both so about four and a half of actually five and a half years now years ago now we actually met

the sweetest most adorable little baby girl and she was a family member to some of uh our church church members there and

she couldn't be with her family and so she needed a home she needed a parents and I'm not a super cautious person but

my husband is ultra cautious and normally he has to think through things especially something very serious it's usually weeks sometimes months yeah it's just like serious parenting is pretty serious way up there on the serious scale yeah yes so but we just kind of made eye contact at church as as the request was being given to find a home for this little girl and she's just adorable

and so we kind of make eye contact and didn't even have to talk about it we came together after that and said are you in like yep I'm I'm in are you in my husband said yeah I'm in and so we at that that's a long conversation very you know 30 seconds long maybe cops

and so after that we decided to get

custody of our Gabby girl and it was about a four and a half year long process to actually solidify the adoption and so a long process I learned a lot of

things about the legal system some things I didn't really care to know about but I feel like I'm kind of a lawyer at this point after all of that yeah I don't know um and so the legal system is enough to uh well we'll just move on yeah yeah yeah and so but one of

the interesting things through that is when we met Gabby we actually were still in debt and we were working our way out of that and one of the opportunities with that was not only getting out of debt but finances was one of my biggest concerns going through this adoption I was thinking we got to get out of debt so that we can adopt this child well finances was

the least of my concerns God provided people were generous to us we had the funds to pay for it the emotional side was the hard part and one of the stories with that was we were actually we didn't have we had custody of Gabby what we hadn't adopted her yet at her one-year birthday party at our house we had actually had all of our

friends all of our family at our house just hanging out and we had some medical debt that was standing out there from my husband had a medical emergency and so we're working through that we were going to get that paid off but we have been served we've been served to collections and so we had hear this knock on the door during this birthday party and all our friends

and family are there and I'm thinking oh is somebody late you know are they arriving late so they knocked on the door and then my husband gets to the door and he says there's a police officer out here and I was like why in the world would there be a police officer and he was trying to be kind to us but I was like what in the world's going on

and he said you you've been served your your debt's going to collections and my pride just dropped I

was like what in the world we're fine we're okay but that's the moment where I was like I've got to get out of debt and I've got to give this child a home and so we were able to do both and not only were we able to be generous to her she's been so generous to us oh she changed everybody she's amazing she's an amazing kid now she's she's a great kid so very

cool so she's been with you how long now um she just turned to six this past weekend and she's been with us since she was almost a year old yeah all right yeah a long time that year oh yes okay so there's been a lot of you know a lot of people that listen have adopted Foster they're kind of in that in that space as well with that parental role

so so talk to the parents out there that maybe have adopted or are fostering and you guys have walked through this over years so what encouragements do you have

for those parents because I know that there's really hard days yes uh through it all like you were talking about even just the emotional side but man how that giving and consistency yes and opening

your home in your heart I'm like oh like yeah that that just that encouragement to parents that may feel discouraged this holiday season absolutely yes hold

your kids close that quality time it can still be yours even if you don't have the title and we were parents before we even had the title if we left it up to the government we may never be parents so that's one of the things that we're like you know what we're going to be parents of this this child and I would encourage all the potential parents out

there love those kids hug those kids give those kids everything that you can because they don't know they're going to be grateful for whatever you can give them and they're going to give back to you tenfold yeah just you've been with us how long almost 10 years I thought so and tell everybody what you do I'm a senior customer success agent on Ramsey trusted all right there

it is senior customer that's

how that works hey I claim that too absolutely absolutely you do a great job

and we're honored to have you as part of this family and uh honored to honor Miss

Gabby and your whole family is cat are you bringing her over for the camera good good yeah absolutely yeah she's

coming up here we go there's Miss Gabby all right that way everybody can meet her on YouTube very cool good stuff hey

Jessica thank you very much very well done proud of you thank you Merry Christmas miss Gabby thank you all right

very good stuff oh the adoption and the

Foster system is a

uh there's such a need and but it's

never an easy process it's always it's always difficult yeah I mean I mean that's it's about widows and orphans and you're just like oh like as of as a mom with three little ones like anytime there's stories like that like would just just talk through or you you know we have families and we know that that Foster and you just hear that's I mean there's a level like the ultimate selflessness I mean you are giving your life away for a

child that didn't choose that story you know it made me cry um I don't know so I think it's just it's just beautiful so I just commend her and her husband so much because it's hard being a parent's hard let alone you

know having that other dynamic in there but then the Redemption and the beauty of you know these kids and just even

with Gabby I'm like you know how her story is completely different because someone chose to do something and a really radical a radical way yeah very cool neat people neat people that's what this is about open phones if you want to talk giving this is your day it is our annual giving show the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two

five Rachel you and I first wrote about this a long long time ago in your first number one bestseller smart money smart kids and you've talked about it even more since then the idea that

contentment generosity and

um gratitude are all intertwined and

they're all choices and they all end up affecting your your wealth building they

all end up affecting your money yeah I mean I think it's people sometimes are like you know it makes no sense when you guys encourage us to be giving even while we're getting out of debt or while we're saving up for the emergency fund like as we're going through our process to get a solid Financial Foundation under us you're wanting us to like let money not go towards

the debt and get it paid off faster but to actually give and you know so like we'll hear those conversations sometimes or Those Questions by people with people and and the answer always is yes because What Not only would it what

it changes in you but creating that habit of generosity and and the change

of your heart of what ends up happening and and suddenly you know when you're generous gratitude flows through when you're generous you realize gosh all the stuff I thought I needed I I really don't I don't I don't need to be fulfilled by that you know there's a joy out of living without open hands that really does bring a level of contentment that I think in turn allows you to get out of debt even faster and say even more that's the weirdest thing and it's a beautiful formula that I kind

of feel like we've cracked in a great way so it's wonderful the Triad of

generosity contentment and

generosity contentment and gratitude the Triad yeah and all of these are things you can just choose to practice and they uh they build on each other and they take you where you want to go with this money stuff this is the annual giving hour our giving show here on the Ramsay

show

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thank you for joining us America open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five this is your last day to enter the Ramsey Christmas Cash giveaway the giveaway ends tonight at 11 59 PM Central Time

so if you haven't yet go to ramseysolutions.com giveaway you know for your chance to win the five thousand dollar grand prize of course no purchase necessary and of course you have to be 18 or older to win that's ramseysolutions.com giveaway don't forget that our 10 sale

is still going on and you can get our number one best-selling books like all of Rachel's number one best-selling books there's three of them and a couple of mine The Total Money Makeover number one ten dollars baby steps millionaire is my latest number one ten dollars and speaking of Total Money Makeover when you get the book we often tell people to flip through and read the stories

first because that's where the hope is it's in the stories of people who got free from debt change their family tree because they finally dealt with the person in the mirror these stories are powerful this stuff works be weird head on over to ramseysolutions.com and check the ten dollar sale out this is our annual giving show and we're talking to you about your giving story or your receiving story that is inspiring open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five Leslie is in Fort

Worth Texas hi Leslie Merry Christmas hey Dave Merry Christmas and thank you so much for letting me talk to you today about my story well tell us we'd love to hear it about seven years ago my son Jackson was

diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma he was eight years old at the time and we were

very blessed he went through treatment pretty quickly and was pronounced good

to go after about nine months well at

the end of his journey through that the

hospital referred us to an organization called a wish with wings and they're a wish granting organization here in Texas and any kid who goes through a situation

like Jackson where they face a life-threatening condition can be granted a wish and they granted his wish

and he got to meet Dude Perfect and we got to go to Disney but that wasn't the most important part like like you are Dave they are dealers in Hope and they

gave our family hope they were just such a sweet organization full of loving people and when you've got a kid with cancer even family members and Friends don't always know how to help you and how to be there for you and this organization of people did and we fell in love with them so about a year after Jackson finished chemotherapy he wanted to do something special so Jackson and I did a 200 mile hike and raised twenty

five thousand dollars from family and friends who pledged to wish with wings

for him doing this hike how old was he then he was nine years old oh my God you did a 200 mile hike one year after chemo with a nine-year-old and he did it in 14 days tough tough little man well now he's a

tough bigger man but still nothing to stop this guy wow yeah yeah and uh so

but still our family wanted to do more uh because we just love these people and

we started volunteering and when they had events we would go volunteer for those events I launched a business not long after that and the business has started doing well so in the last few years our family has been able to donate 65 000 to wish with wings and that's

enough to Grant eight which eight wishes and then my wonderful children have gotten their friends involved every time my kid has a birthday party he's collecting gifts for other kids who are sick who have cancer every time their

school has some kind of fundraising opportunity they plug this organization because they care about them so you talk a lot Dave about changing your family tree and to me this changed our family

tree because someone gave us hope and

taught us that our number one goal should be helping other people have hope so we are just totally sold out on

helping this organization else that is for kids with cancer yeah what's the name of it one more time a wish with wings a wish with wings very cool yeah this whole situation was a force multiplier one plus one doesn't equal two in this deal one plus one is equal ended up

equaling a hundred well and you can take a bad situation and you can let it gnaw at you or

pretend it didn't happen or you can decide you're going to make it into something better and while I'll never be

grateful that my kid went through cancer I am so grateful that now we understand

what it's like to be the people who are

the recipient of bad situations that are not they're doing and it's taught everyone in our family including both our kids compassion and love and we

really now in our family budget we put giving as a top line item there are so

many things we just don't need and we thought we did we would much rather give back and I know that sounds so cheesy and over the top but it's true because when we see these other families they don't have it easy like we did well yeah and when you face something Leslie like that like when your child is sick and you know and I'm sure you got

the the fear of what you know the ultimate fear of what what if we what if we lose him I mean all I'm sure you go through all those emotions I can't even imagine um and I think too it's that perspective that when you realize wow he came out of this and like it's life is so short and

you know all the stuff that we think is going to make us happy in this life that we go out and try to purchase and experience all this stuff that we're just like go go go go go in the consumeristic aspect of our world that we think is going to give us joy you know you in turn are like you know you realize oh my gosh no like

it it truly is this giving back out of this pain and the story that you guys went through but but it's this perspective that you have that you're like okay it's you know we could go buy a bunch of stuff with this money or we can give it and in your life like you are you are putting True Value um on where value should be so Leslie that's absolutely incredible well done Leslie Merry Christmas to

you what a great giving story what a great giving story yeah so it turns out pushing by now by now by now filling your cart is probably not what life's about yeah

who knew sorry Amazon but yeah there you

go hey a few weeks ago we told you our studio sponsors here PODS moving and storage we're going to be entering uh the giving season they're going to join us on this whole giving Crusade they're holding a sweepstakes to give away a free move or storage rental for one Ramsey listener we're excited to share the winner today it seemed fitting to do here on the giving show because this was up to a five thousand dollar value that's generous PODS moving thank you very cool stuff so congratulations to

Andrea K Andrea recently moved from

Apollo Beach Florida to just a little ways up the road here in Hermitage Tennessee she shared that she's ecstatic to have her move paid for by pods and hey who wouldn't be welcome to Tennessee Andrea and uh the giveaway is over if

you're looking for a company that does will that will work with you take care of you cause you to have a great moving experience well the PODS moving and storage folks are the people and they're the only ones that are Ramsay trusted in

the moving provider space you can check

them out at pods.com Ramsay we appreciate their partnership here with us their sponsorship of the show one of the reasons you are able to get this show all the ways you get this show is our sponsors the advertisers the people that are with us and the studio sponsorship's a big deal so the PODS moving and storage people are great folks and we are kind of hard to work

with in terms of we don't endorse just anybody we don't put Ramsay trusted on just anybody just because they've got the money and we'd rather just sit here with a studio then the PODS moving in storage Studio but the pods people are great folks I personally met with a lot of their leadership team they do a great job they give discounts to the military those of you in the military you move all the time and they give you great discounts they're great American company and um and Andrea k okay just got her

move paid for there you go that's pretty cool very nice yeah moving can be it can be pricey so when you just get it paid for you're like yeah it's great it can be really pushy if you go with one of those companies that mistreats you yeah it's uh they mistreat your stuff in the process yes yeah pod's moving and storage thanks guys it's a giving show today here on the Ramsay show Rachel Cruz is my co-host you hang with us we'll be here

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hey it's Rachel Cruz co-host on the

Ramsay show if you want to do your debt free scream live on the show visit ramseysolutions.com set free screen we'd

love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story that's ramsesolutions.com debt free screen

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ERS of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the pots moving in storage Studios it's the Ramsay show where debt is dumb Cassius king and the paid off Home Mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice we help

people build wealth do work that they love

and create actual amazing relationships

thank you for joining us America Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality number one best-selling author three times over and my daughter is my co-host today as we take your calls today we're talking about giving this is our annual giving show if you have a great giving story some outrageous generosity that you received or that you caused to happen meaning you gave hey we want to hear inspiring giving and generosity Stories

the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five Merry Christmas America tis the season for generosity this is the place where we celebrate that we teach you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else generous people

make us smile generous people make our eyes leak and that's what this show is all about open phones at triple eight

eight two five five two two five starting off this hour with a giving story Ben in Birmingham Merry Christmas Ben Merry Christmas thank you for having me on the show Absolutely so tell us your giving story so um this is actually kind of a receiving story that my siblings got but

um so my parents and our family have been missionaries for the past 20 years my parents move overseas uh early 2000 but prior to that my dad while he was in

seminary was working at FedEx and they met some friends who basically became really close family friends and as my dad was was working he kind of made his way up in the ranks that this job where he was working and when they decided to go overseas this family friend basically said that because you know my dad was willing to give up his career and kind of go overseas to serve that they were going to basically purchase uh cars all

of their children whenever they came back for college so there's five of us

five children wow so whenever we ended

up all coming back he essentially bought

a 15 to 20 000 car for each of us he

paid for the insurance for the first year for that car he paid for basically all the maintenance for the first year on those cars so kind of over the course of I would say probably 10 years as each of our siblings came back he ended up probably paying about a hundred thousand dollars worth of you know money that he put into buying cars for us to essentially get established

and have a way to be you know transported while we were back in the country and our parents were still overseas so it's pretty incredible gift on his part um and a pretty awesome story that I've actually never really gotten to tell a lot of people so very cool I love that

yeah I love the way the whole thing went down it's a friendship and they just admired your mom and dad and the you know nothing you could listen if you want to do something for someone and blow their minds do something for their kids exactly I mean that touched your mom and dad more than than if they'd gotten the money directly or if he'd wrote them 100 000 check to underwrite their their Ministry or their mission work uh it wouldn't have meant near as much as what he did yeah exactly and basically it

provided because they were still overseas when we would come back for college so essentially it provided us transportation to get to our school uh

school during the semesters our summer jobs during the summer to basically go and see our our extended family in different parts of the country because without that I mean my parents definitely couldn't have afforded to buy cars for us whenever we needed to come back to the States for school yeah absolutely pretty tremendous tremendous gift on his part for sure okay Ben this might be a weird question in

the middle of your giving story but yeah once some calls we've taken on the show some people have a really hard time receiving gifts so how did your parents what was

kind of their posture when this friend came forward and said hey I wanna I wanna give your kids cars when they come home um you know like were they was it a

hundred percent just they accepted it in this humble Spirits or did they have any

level of like oh man we wish we couldn't do it we can't do that for our kids and that receiving you know because I want to speak to that in a in a in encouraging people to receive the gift because sometimes sometimes I think people struggle receiving as well yeah I think it was honestly kind of easy for them because I think that they knew that that was something that they weren't going to be able to provide for us whenever we came back to the States

um so in a way it was kind of maybe a relief for them and kind of a burden off of their shoulders in terms of having to provide for their kids and that in that circumstance for sure so I think it was honestly kind of kind of a relief yeah no I love that that's that's what I pray you know people's heart is but I think sometimes people need to hear that to say hey it's okay to receive

and you can do that like it doesn't speak to who you are if you're the one given something so

um so I love that that's so great very cool Ben thank you for sharing that story man absolutely appreciate it absolutely Merry Christmas good stuff open phones here triple eight eight two five five two two five Patricia is in Connecticut hi Patricia tell us your giving story Merry Christmas by the way

you too

recipient of outrageous generosity that I wanted to be able to share with you guys and I haven't really told many people this story um because I felt like it wasn't my story to tell since I was the recipient but it's been two years and I think it's time for everyone to know that the business that I run was given to me

um in October of 2020. so I was given a

small business which is actually a self-serve frozen yogurt shop oh wow so how did that get about

um I got laid off from Corporate America back in 2014 um and I decided I didn't want to go back to that so I picked up a part-time job at the

local froyo shop I'm right in town

um in November of 2015.

um and then my husband and I actually started the baby steps January of 2016.

and then we finished our baby steps we paid off all our debt and then somewhere along the line the the owners had asked me because I was still working at the frozen yogurt shop um to purchase the store or they had numerous stores so they you know had it had been discussed um but they also knew I didn't borrow money so uh I would always tell them no

because I couldn't afford to own a business of course um and then covet of course came in April 2020 we have to close the shop down so I was actually unemployed um it

was self-served frozen yogurt so it just wasn't sustainable which was devastating um but we actually did reopen in July of 2020. um so my bosses decided to reopen and that's what we did um and then a month later they one of the bosses pulled me aside into the into the back kitchen which is never a good sign right I was nervous um and uh he had asked me if I wanted

the store if I wanted to you know take the store be the store owner and I said I don't really know what you mean what does that mean and he said we're going to give you the store but you're gonna get this store with equipment that is 11 years old they have been in business for 11 years yeah I'll tell you what I want to hear the rest of

this and I'm up on Commercial because I don't want to run this into the ground it's too good hang with us through the commercial Patricia we'll hear the rest of the story here on the annual giving show on the Ramsay show [Music]

foreign

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Christians helping other Christians by sharing each other's medical bills the medical bill sharing from chm was exactly the way the website described it there were no surprises no bait and switch no hidden agenda chm did everything they said they would by sharing all of our eligible needs we like that it's a non-profit Ministry and that we were being better stewards of our money all while helping other families established in 1981

and accredited by the Better Business Bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business get started today and check us out at

chministries.org backslash budget that's

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co-host today this is our annual giving show here on the Ramsey Show we're taking your calls with giving stories receiving stories this is all about generosity live like no one else and later you can live and give like no one else we were in the middle of Patricia's story in Connecticut she's left Corporate America went to work for a frozen yogurt shop

and they offered to sell it to her a couple of times and then during covet after going back to work the owner walks in one day and says they are offering to give it to her now

let's pick that story up there Patricia thank you thank you yeah that's pretty much how it went um so like I said they offered to give me the store um and the store had been in business for about 11 years already so of course the equipment you know the machines all that stuff was 11 years old um so that happened in about August and sure enough October 14th of 2020 we

closed on the business um I started you know an LLC I opened new bank accounts um and I did all that and we actually closed and here I am two you know two and a half years later as a small business owner in a very small town

um but enjoying every second of it so wow what do you what prompted them to do

that uh I like I said they had offered a few

times I think you know when when customers would come in I was always there so so customers would say oh is this your store and I would say no no no but they would always say well you treat it like your store because I had so much passion for what I was doing and it sounds silly people think it's silly but you know at my interview with with the store owners at when I started I had

told you know I had told them I treat every job like it's a career

um so I'm going to have a lot of passion I love being around people of course there's you know our clientele is generally kids uh so I think that after

covid there was a lot of restrictions um and they actually own a hardware

store in the same Plaza uh so they were

really you know we all know everyone was stuck home during covid so they were just slammed over there I mean they were every day all day everybody was home at the hardware store so I think it was just time to to figure something out to Let It Go ah okay all right but through

your diligence of being so excellent you

know at your job you're the person that shined through to yeah to receive that which is which is amazing it really is and it's been amazing and it's more than just a small business year you know it's definitely a family business I'm actually looking inside the store right now my husband's covering for me while I'm on the phone with you guys my mom does all our shopping at Costco every day so you know my retired mom guessed it with a Costco every day it's basically a joy for her and uh my

son does all the heavy lifting when orders come in or take some garbage out at night you know I have a bunch of great employees also but um it's the customers that really make it just really worthwhile it's it's definitely what I feel I was called to do oh I think you were yeah you're the backbone of America small business people like you that's what makes this entire Place run

it is not large corporate Goobs and it's not the government it's people like you that cause make this country great the free enterprise system causes people like you to shine and people like the former owners that were generous to you to shine yeah absolutely that's incredible just hand it over a business yeah pretty cool that's awesome very very very cool stuff hi Patricia thank you for sharing that Merry Christmas to

you we appreciate you hanging out with us today this is our annual giving show our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself whyblinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code Ramsay to

get the best deal so today's question comes from Jim in Florida I'm struggling

in giving recently because I have plans that I need to accomplish buy a house and get my small business off the grounds I am a generous person but I

feel like I'm being cheap when it comes to giving or when my wife gets to get

something for her friends or sister I don't feel good while deep inside I know that I am I'm kind of confused if I'm changing to

a jerk and a selfish person but honestly I'm doing it for my family so I need some help Jim you know I mean I think that there's a reality that when you have

your bases covered in your home and with

your family and the needs are provided for it allows that generosity to flow

even greater uh with with maybe not as

much stress but this doesn't sound like it's a I need to take care of my family first I mean yes you want to be able to buy a house for sure get my small business off the ground you know but this I would say to those gym that that giving it doesn't have to be extravagant and so starting to give a little until

you can give a lot right like if there are things in your life that you're wanting to do we all have that but that doesn't mean you can't do both is what I would say yeah it sounds like um that the uh what's bothering you more

than the actual giving um to the sister or to the friends or whatever by your wife is that it feels like that's blocking these other goals and it's not that's the reality so the way you can overcome that is just budget for it just say we're going to put a line item in the budget you and your wife that agree we agree on our entire budget but we're going to agree on this is the amount that that your wife has for

friends and sister and uh don't go over that and then you

can use the rest of the budget and see that you are able to accomplish your goals of doing stuff in the business or saving up for a home or whatever you'll see that it you know if you budget 100 bucks or something it's not going to keep you from doing those other things but this idea that it's not got any limits on it and um you're not in agreement when

she's doing these things that's where the rub is so if you were in agreement and it had a reasonable limit and you were in agreement on the limit on the amount that that you know your wife has for these two activities sister and friends or whatever you want to call it uh then you'd be okay with it uh but it's just the ambivalence of it that is uh that's probably throwing

you because you're you're obviously a person who who plans but this is not something it doesn't make you a bad person to say I'm going to accomplish some goals that's that's not a bad person now what we do teach and have taught from the very beginning around Ramsey and I think it's good to get into this a little bit is you want a baseline of giving that is

your normal rhythm in your life uh every month and then you have when you are are

prospering and you've got extra money

above that normal budgeted giving that's

just flying around and you have a choice between buying you know another thingy

and doing some generosity then you can change and and do some generosity with that Surplus money that extra money that's from prospering but when you're first starting out uh we teach people to limit their giving to their Baseline normal giving now for those of us that are uh Christians Evangelical Christians we teach and believe within our faith to

give a tithe a tenth of our income to your local church that's your Baseline that's your normal rhythm of giving you don't stop doing that and uh above the tithe is called

offerings and all throughout scripture offerings come from Surplus from

prospering and so they would come after you're out of debt after you've taken care of your own household and and so this idea that you're supposed to give away the rent money uh and your your kids are become homeless because you were generous that's absurd and it's not scriptural for those of you that are Christians by the way take care of your own household first or you're worse than unbeliever that's scriptural

and that's not lacking in generosity it doesn't make you a bad person quite the opposite it makes you a good person yeah absolutely so we start with taking care of our house then we

can expand and say we're going to take care of people outside of our house and then we can expand and say we're going to change our family tree and then we can expand and say let's change our whole community but that's that all comes from the Surplus above the normal rhythm of giving and I think you need to put a rhythm of giving Jim in your budget for

your wife to have some freedom without being worried about you being upset about it this is the Ramsay show

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personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today this is our annual giving show the show

where we talk about the power of generosity if you've got a great story that's inspiring on where you've given or received we would love to hear it and

you can call us at triple eight eight two five five two two five speaking of giving uh this Show's free for you on podcast on YouTube it's free for you on 680 radio stations all across America tens of millions of you join us every

week thank you we appreciate that we are grateful for you uh but it's time for you to give back you need to go and uh leave a rating a five-star rating at uh wherever you listen and don't leave a one star they're not valuable at all that's why they call them one star put a five star on there thank you we appreciate that and you need to subscribe it helps other people be notified by all the algorithms and uh oh the various things that the

wonderful people on the internet do to allow you to know that these things exist it's caused by you subscribing so subscribe leave a uh a rating and share

the show tell people where you listen to it on talk radio send a link to your podcast off of Spotify or apple or wherever it is or YouTube say Hey you ought to check these guys out the information is real and it's not you know we're not on here whining and crying and angry every day we're here helping people and so it's kind of an unusual show in that regard

you ought to spread the spread the word we had to get more of this kind of thing out there in this world today so open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five all of our callers today will be

getting the live and give box which has in it The Total Money Makeover book the uh baby steps millionaires book and a one-year membership to Financial Peace University this allows you to break this up and and give it away or book A book A book a class however you want to do it or use the whole thing yourself the live and give Box by the way if you want to

buy it it's only 99 bucks at Ramsey Solutions and that's about 50 60 bucks under what all of those items retail for so it's a good deal the live and give box one of our traditions on the giving show that we do is we bring on a few of our Ramsay team

members a few of the 1100 folks in this building who all practice generosity at different levels and have great stories but uh no question about it Nathan is with us and Nathan's got a great generosity story hey Nathan how are you good Dave how are you doing good Merry Christmas same to you Merry Christmas a little nerve-wracking putting on that microphone isn't it in just a little bit you're doing good you're gonna make it so tell us your story man so so my my

mentor is a guy by the name of Stan freeze super nice guy I worked with him for uh 10 years and and

and he it's like over the years he's just been so uh generous with me but there there was one instance that it that it completely floored me so

about uh 10 years ago

I was I was working for him and I was actually uh dating um um she is actually now my wife uh Lauren over here and and she and and so I

wanted to propose to her and I was just just casually uh talking to uh Stan about it one day

saying because you know because back

then this was actually before Dave and so I was very stupid with money so I didn't have the money to buy a ring for for uh Lauren and so I so I was just

kind of kind of venting to him about it one day didn't really think anything of it and then probably about two three days later he actually drags me to one of the conference rooms he says come here come here come here so so so we we go to one of the conference rooms and he

gives me a box and he says here you go I

said okay so I open it up and it's a

really nice ring and he just tells me you marry that girl right now oh my God whoa

just like that yep yep so he gave he gave you the engagement ring yes he did wow that's cool yeah he was um

um because I was just flirting I said Stan did you buy this and he said oh no no no I I um I upgraded my my uh wife's ring so you

can have that one and I'm like oh my gosh oh

oh my goodness wow that's very cool yeah

so how tempted have you been to do something like that for somebody now that you're out of debt and doing well oh we're we just we just try to find

just seem like every opportunity my life's very good with a discernment and

and so like when when she tells me we need to do you know to give somebody money or to

to you know to help them out help them move I always listen to her and say okay you you know what you're doing smart man I was about the same thing I was like smart man oh that's amazing okay that's what I love about this show though is I'm like all the different ways that people step into people's lives right and intersect them in their stories where they're at

and be able to to help right and even something like a proposal to be able to say hey go marry that girl yeah here's the ring and all that so stand stand well done is it still the ring you have your wife sitting over here yes yeah yeah that's amazing absolutely amazing there it is right there I like it so great all right Nathan how long you been with Ramsay since uh January all right

and tell everybody what you do here I am a a I'm a a senior writer with the uh content team

absolutely very cool well thank you brother for sharing that you did a great job and that's a wonderful giving story a wonderful Journey yes thank you Merry Christmas y'all very good stuff fun fun fun that's about as good as it gets I love it hey open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five

Teresa wrote in uh from the baby steps

community on Facebook group if you didn't know there's an official baby steps Community with uh I think it's over a million people in it now on Facebook uh that's the official baby steps Ramsey Community I don't know it's called something like that today a family member reached out asking for help they're truly struggling receiving food stamps but we're desperate for items you cannot buy with food stamps in less than an hour

I was able to go through my stockpile and fill a giant Ikea bag with every possible item they may need I'm gifting them toilet paper cleaning supplies toothpaste deodorant napkins air freshener laundry soap dryer sheets tissue trash bags and about a dozen other household necessities on my way over I'll be picking up dog food a gas gift card and some gifts they can give each other for Christmas I'm

so thankful for being debt free and that a bunch of recent overtime is allowing me to help them without it impacting my budget at all I'm finally in the season of giving

and I couldn't be more thankful for that oh I love that isn't that great and even just that a little bit of that convenience we're like all right I'm gonna just go through my pantry and see what I have here and be able to fill up yeah fill up a bag and be able to give it away well and you can double up I mean

you know a lot of people that you know they do the Costco thing and they buy like six jars of peanut butter and so they've got plenty you know so you're not gonna go without that's right that's right it works out you know it's it's uh but just to be able to do that spur of the moment and catch somebody Katie says for so many years I hated December my husband's son and sister's birthday plus Christmas I could never do

what I wanted this year I'm taking five

of us to Florida to my parents for Christmas doing house projects for them while there everyone can have what they need and some of what they want for Christmas birthday is plenty for giving but the hardest part is keeping the list straight check the bank a few minutes ago because it felt too spendy and I had

only spent five percent of what was allotted that's weird but good weird keep going it gets fun yeah there you go

well you know what it takes the stress off the holidays um one of the biggest elements of stress is the financial threat of a hangover a

financial hangover that lasts till May and when you've got your money in the name of generosity right yeah all in the name of generosity I hated December she says yeah I get it I completely get that this is the annual giving show here on

the Ramsey Show

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well it's our annual giving show and all

day we've gotten to hear some incredible stories of outrageous generosity this stuff that gets us fired up it never gets old guys if you've learned anything from the stories we're hearing today I hope you've learned that giving is the most fun you can have with money and you'll never have more fun than helping someone else change their life and one way you can do that is the live and give box everyone today has been

getting the live and give box that calls in with a giving story this is the Box we gave everyone and today we're offering it I thought it was 99 this is even more 79.99 that's 20 off a normal that's like

half price for these items it's an

entire year of Financial Peace University a copy of The Total Money Makeover and a copy of baby steps millionaires if there's someone in your life who needs this and there is then you give it to them you're going to show them hope you're going to show them Freedom they might be the ones calling in on the next giving show because you changed their life so get the live and give box at ramsaysolutions.com super sale on this thing 79.99 today you'll get it in time for

Christmas if you call it call in the day or email her to click on the website today and get it nobody call anymore and again that's ramsesolutions.com box you know we used to have people call customer care and order stuff I bet there's still a few that do there probably is but but majority go on the internet yes I mean it's just kind of a foreign

like there's two of them I know it feels

like there's a lot I don't know there's a lot of them all right Andrea is with us in San Diego Andrea happy Christmas

to you Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Dave and Rachel thanks for having me on the show Absolutely tell us your giving story please I have a receiving generosity story my

husband and I got married last year November in 2021 and we went

through Financial Peace University together and we're on baby steps 3B and

he is active duty military and is

deployed this year so last month on our

one-year wedding anniversary since he's gone I invited one of my best girlfriends to go out to dinner with me I said come to dinner with me this is you know my treat let's just have a good

meal and good conversation you know get whatever you want don't read the menu from right to left and so we went out to dinner um at a really nice restaurant the the type of restaurant where the manager is you know roaming around talking to people making sure everything's satisfactory so the manager comes over to our table and he asks you know if

we're visiting from out of town because it was a pretty touristy area and we said no we live here and so he said oh you know what's what's the occasion then and I said well it's my wedding anniversary but I'm just here with my friend because my husband is away for work and he had a pretty good guess he

said oh is your husband in the military and I said yeah he's a big military Community here and he said oh you know I'm sorry that you guys are apart but you know hopefully we can make your meal enjoyable and he asked me what what your

wedding anniversary it was and I just you know held up one finger and his jaw dropped and he said oh my gosh you know I'm sorry and he said you know which

dessert on the menu were you girls eyeing you know and so we looked at one and picked one I can't even remember what it is now and so of course they they bring out that dessert which was really nice and my friend and I are finishing our meal and a waiter came

over the server from the next section over it wasn't our server and he comes up and Taps me on the shoulder and he said that the couple sitting in the next section over the table behind us over her heard me telling the manager that my husband was deployed and it was my first wedding anniversary and they had paid for our entire meal I love it

as they should have well played that's

amazing yeah I thought you're gonna say it was the manager that just like you know picked it up and just said we got it but it was another customer there yeah that did that oh that's amazing

yeah we I kind of thought when the manager was asking like oh which dessert did you like you know I I thought that maybe they were gonna comp the dessert right right my friend and I were just so

shocked and luckily the couple was still there they were like finishing up and so I was able to turn around and I just said thank you so much for you know your generosity and they they said no thank

you thank your husband for his service and um yeah we I didn't really get to talk with them much but I asked you know if they were visiting or local and they said that they were visiting on vacation and they're flying home the next day and and that was it and yeah just like the

spontaneity and like the impact like I

feel like that is just has such a bigger impact on me than it did them and it's

like that makes my first anniversary like so memorable absolutely how long you been married now uh well last month was our one year anniversary just happened wow okay

I love that and I love the picking up the bill at restaurants Dave you're really good at that like if you see someone you know but I think because I've been the recipient of that not to that extent um Andrea like yeah you're one year anniversary with your husband deployed I mean like that's just like over the top but anytime someone does anything you think oh my gosh like

it is it's so shocking to be on the receiving end and especially with you in all those circumstances like that feel that's just I mean that like literally makes you smile for weeks and weeks just thinking about that yeah very cool absolutely very cool hey and

do tell your husband we we appreciate him too we love you guys we appreciate what you do for America and um all the

men and women like him and like you and the sacrifice that you do for him um being uh at work in quotes and if

it's out of San Diego then that could mean a whole lot of things yep that's right so um yeah wow thank you thank you

very very much open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five I had the honor

of doing some things with SEAL Teams and

um of course they're based out of San Diego and uh when they're at work uh

that means they're downrange uh it's

it's yeah that's when it's getting real so somebody is uh some bad guy somewhere is in trouble that's what that means so uh it's pretty serious and these men and women they they are uh their level of uh

sacrifice their level of honor their level of training is otherworldly it is

it's pretty amazing so anytime you've got the opportunity to bless someone in uniform uh please do it uh I don't care

if it's a police uniform a firefighter's uniform or a set of Scrubs sitting there

or certainly a military uniform you just reach over and do that every single time and um you know I watched a guy the other day somebody beat me to it I was in a nice restaurant and this guy walked in with a uh a Vietnam Veteran's hat on

the ball cap just a ball cap and

um he was uh elderly I mean this guy was

he was uh had I had served early in Vietnam probably um and uh but I mean it wasn't 30 seconds before people started lining up to buy that tables from you know I mean it didn't take but a second because you could just look at that guy and go that's a guy that needs to be honored yeah you know absolutely pretty cool stuff and there's something that happens Rachel you're like right

when somebody buys your dinner like that regardless of whether you're in a position of Honor like that or not um you're just maybe a position of need uh whatever it is but there's something about food and that that transaction that makes the receiving person feel very special yes at absolutely I hate I hate story because it's nothing compared to the all we just had but when we

we had been married about three months and moved to Nashville I guess it's been about four months and we were starting off our jobs once and I mean in our early 20s just doing it we had our budget and we couldn't really go out to eat like you know we were in the Franklin area um living in outside of Nashville and we

we kind of were like okay we can go out to dinner like twice a week because kind of like our Rhythm and so we went out on a big date night to to Puckett's downtown Franklin yeah uh one night and some friends that we knew family friends they were a little bit older uh than us and again we had just been married about four four or five months

and I remember we got Waters because we didn't want to pay for a drink like I mean we were like in that that season of life and they paid for our meal and I felt like I won the lottery I was like it's not coming out of our budget like oh my God yeah there's just it takes you off guard yep there's something there's something makes you feel special

I know it's a pretty cool but you do that great you always are paying for people's meals a restaurant and I just love that I I think it's just a it's a beautiful it's a beautiful thing fun stuff right it's our annual giving show here on the

Ramsey show man I love generous people

they make us smile they make our eyes leak this is the Ramsay show Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsay Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes download the Ramsay Network app in your

favorite app store today

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving and storage Studios it's the

Ramsay show where debt is dumb Cassius king and the paid off Home Mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status

symbol of choice we help people

build wealth do work that they actually love and create real amazing

relationships this day's shows are dedicated to giving

to generosity it's our annual giving show in honor of Christmas time Merry

Christmas America hey we're glad you're with us Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today and we're taking uh your calls all about

giving we want to hear your stories that are inspiring about giving and about

receiving generosity is the best thing

you can do with money it's the most fun you'll ever have with money and we teach you around here that you will sacrifice to win you will live like no one else

so that later you can live and give

like no one else so check it out we want to hear your story open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five J in a

Washington DC is with us Merry Christmas Jay how are you hey Merry Christmas Dave and Rachel it's real pleasure to talk with both of you you too tell us your giving story

yes sir so I'd briefly like to share today my family's progression of her generosity over the past couple Christmases and what we have planned this year but first my why so my three

siblings and I were raised by a single mother who's a real hero to all of us all four of us are successful adults and so ever real hard for helping single moms however I can over the years of course we were helped by family and friends and strangers uh in many ways and so I feel compelled to do the same in 2020 my wife's in my first Christmas

after completing baby step three we were finally in a position that we could expand our generosity to beyond our church and we opted to find a deserving stranger to help so I chose a diner type restaurant a few days before Christmas walked in and asked for the manager I asked him if he had any single moms working that day who could you use a little hand up with a money gift for

the holiday now someone came to his mind right away and he was able to help me hand an envelope with a little over 200 to a grateful mom with two little ones last year last year my family and I

became a little more strategic than that I called a different restaurant about a month before Christmas and asked for the manager and if she had any single months

a good benefit from a monetary gift there she immediately thought of one mom who had recently successfully completed rehab the manager and I skiing for a weekend shift for when this particular waitress was working and my wife and my kids and I visited that restaurant for a drink and a slice of pie in about afternoon and we wanted to be anonymous but evidently every employee in the place knew besides the waitress that we were about to give the gift they were all smiling and watching us the whole time and about 15 minutes in to our

visit we left the waitress 400 tip and

walked out so this year Dave and Rachel I'm a public school administrator and I get daily reminders of how blessed my family and I are through the course of serving my school community and unfortunately this year I learned recently the two siblings who attend my school lost their father to an accident and our school team reached out to this newly widowed mom to see how we could support

and she shared that among other things she was struggling with finances and and because her husband handled all the financial matters I immediately thought that my family and I could personally gift them a subscription to Ramsay plus that she

would really benefit from the financial coaching aspect of that so I called your company and Rick one of your longtime agents shout out to Rick answered I

explained the situation on behalf of the company he generously gifted the year of Ramsey plus to me to give to the Widow I'm really grateful for your company for stepping in to help and my of course my family and I've been talking about how we will outrageously give this year and it will go to our Widow and our school Community we have to help our single moms especially those who are widowed all

these all these ladies are superheroes absolutely yeah they are they they do wear a cape every one of them and uh most of them work multiple

jobs just to get by and uh it's it's a very

real thing so you've touched a nerve you really have that's fabulous well done Jay thank you I love that Jay thank you thank you so much for the inspiration yeah and uh we we will continue amen keep it up brother merry Christmas too you're very cool very amazing heart Jay you have you and your sweet family and like that's and I love the intentionality of calling the restaurant talking to them right like

you kind of build it up and then his kids Jay's kids you know going along on that as well like there's there's just life-changing things well if you if you can more carefully identify the target you're more likely to hit the target yes random things you kind of get sometimes when you're doing this kind of weird generosity stuff you you get a little nervous and you start kind of thrashing around

and get a little bit random and sometimes you miss the target yeah you know it's not your giving doesn't do what is what you kind of hoped it would do uh but in his case he's being very selective and helping someone go okay I love that that's a that's a person uh that okay now I've got that dialed in that's that's very cool and you know what I'll I'll brag on Rick our guy here

because I know he's talking about over in our uh Ramsay concierge team and um uh all of you

folks out there that own and run businesses uh that's a leadership lesson right there uh you know the way our team is Led they are one of the uh you know

we teach them to have a self-employed mentality treat this place like they own it treat the books that you sell like you own them treat the uh you know the stuff around here like you know that like you own it and Rick treated that like he owned it he said that's somebody that this is something that if I own this company I would give that and so he gave that and oh by the way if you're running the company your leadership style needs to equip and Empower your

people to do that to be generous to be generous without asking they don't need to check in just do the right thing and you know he didn't give away ten thousand dollars he gave away one one-year membership to financial base University we'll be okay you know it's okay and so it's he's equipped he's empowered to do that all through people all through this place here and matter of fact they're more than that it's like

we demand that they do it it's part of their job to be generous and to take care of people as one-offs now if you call in and just you know and if you call in and make up a lie and try to mess with us we'll charge a double Okay so

so we do we do that too because we treat it like we own it we don't be conned but we do want to be generous there's a difference right I mean totally totally absolutely way to go Rick that's very very cool stuff that's how it's supposed to be done so you can uh my my point of

that is is if those of you that run small businesses out there and lots of you do your entree leaders entree leaders meaning you entrepreneurs and leaders you can magnify your generosity just by

empowering your team to do it and uh

because they have more touch points sometimes than you do so it gives you a lot of ways to do it this is an annual giving show here on the Ramsey Show

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welcome to the Ramsey Show Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality is my co-host today as we do our annual giving show we are

taking calls from those of you telling your giving stories we're less than two weeks away from Christmas the Ramsey Christmas Cash giveaway ends tonight at midnight and by the time we're done we will have given away thousands of dollars why do we do that here at Ramsey because of one of the things I've learned is that outrageous generosity changes me logically you'd think that being unselfish makes you a generous person but the opposite is true being a generous person changes your heart and then you become less selfish

and that affects every area of your life unselfish people are better husbands better wives better friends better parents better employers better employees people just want to be around you more so when you're fired up because you're working the baby steps it's changing your life it is time to start giving start developing that habit and

while you're over there signing up for the free money get the ten dollar sale on The Total Money Makeover books the baby steps millionaire books all of Rachel's books you've got hope don't keep it to yourself spread it around go to ramseysolutions.com we got the best deals running right now so it's easy for you to find outrageously generous gifts for the season check them out ramsesolutions.com open phones at triple

eight eight two five five two two five harmony is in Santa Fe New Mexico Merry

Christmas Harmony Merry Christmas I am thrilled to talk to you it is such an honor to participate in the giving show well thank you tell us your story okay so my giving story started a few years back I got a really nice bonus at work and I I love my job and I know I'm

good at it but I also know I am nothing without my team so I wanted to share

and it was kind of a little conundrum because I wasn't really supposed to advertise that I'd gotten a bonus I don't think there were a whole lot of them giving out that year and I couldn't just give them money because I don't think that would have been appropriate so I did my secret Santa idea I just

made up some envelopes with cash in them and the person's name and that said from

Secret Santa thank you for all you do and I snuck around and I flipped them under the office doors and it was just

so much fun that I decided right then and there that I would just go ahead and add a line item to my budget so I could have a secret santa fun and do it again

so I did it again next year and then I

also noticed how great our janitors are where I work and of course everything we do would come to a screeching halt if they didn't do their jobs amen they're just always so friendly and cheerful and they say hi to everybody and they knock on every door of every office every day and empty the trash and all the other things that janitors do so I decided they would be a part of it too and then the most amazing thing that happened was that it went viral one of the janitors

sent an email to the all employees distribution list that said Thank You secret santa whoever you are and people

started asking her what was she talking about no she took a picture of the

envelope and sent that out and then yeah

so this is like um the entire staff gets these emails and how many is that Harmony how many how many people are getting this about about 500 okay okay that's amazing yeah so after about a day or so someone replied to the email chain saying I got

one of those too and then another one me too and these weren't the ones that I had given uh and secret santa stuff started magically

appearing all over the facility oh my gosh Harmony sounds like Santa got in on it I can't believe it it was so fun and I

can't wait to see what happens this year um because it's we're not quite we work right up until the day before um Christmas Eve so it's going to probably be next week when when things really I I'm expecting to see it again this year so and you know it's right

what you said it this is like like therapy for me there's I get so much more out of this than I would from any stuff or even any experiences that I could buy with the same money well the fabulous thing is is you inspired somebody else to start doing it too and didn't even know it I think it was it was her email that you

know really got the word out I wasn't I was tight-lipped I know no one knew

um unless some of the recipients that I gave um had said something to somebody else but um then you know when his email went out that was really um what got it going I think that's so perfect that's awesome well done well done great story so the original uh

secret santa if there is one is a guy named Larry Stewart from Kansas City and um we ended up connecting with him

having him on the show several times developed a friendship with him he's passed away a cancer since but Larry was quite an interesting bird he um was down

on his luck decades ago uh didn't have

any money was hungry pulled his pickup into a diner in Mississippi a little meet and three Diner went in went up to the counter and

sat down and ate and uh with the idea that when he finished he was just going to act like he forgot his wallet and just try to talk his because he had to have food he was hungry and uh you start talking to the the cook behind the counter who turned out to be the owner of the diner we found out later in the story um and the guy realized that he was broke and kind of was running a scam and

uh he walked around behind him and

reached down on the floor and said uh hey I think you dropped this and handed him a 20 bill so he was able to pay for he gave him the money in other words he was able to pay for his dinner Larry never forgot that he later goes on to be he got in the cable TV business and goes on to become a multi-millionaire and um started a tradition of secret Santa

and nobody knew who he was and he would go to areas of the country where something had happened he was in New Orleans after Katrina he was in uh after

a shooting in around Columbine he was there after that he was in New York City after 9-1-1 and he would walk around in a Santa Claus suit with his friends who were policemen would go with him and he would give away tens of thousands of dollars he'd walk up just hand people hundred dollar bills 200 bills 300 bills for one and he would walk around all day long just on

the street and just randomly coming up to people and just going ho ho ho and who are you and Jesus Loves You Jesus loves you and he had and he handed out over his life he ended up millions of dollars wow a secret Santa and so when he got sick he created the secret santa kit to

franchise it so that other people could do it and you could go to his I don't even know if the website's still up he died several years ago but the website was like secret santa.com or something and you could go there and get you know learn how to be him because finally the

no one knew who it was it was a big mystery all the media was trying to track him down trying to figure out what it was and he kept it a secret for many years Kansas City Star finally in his own Hometown tracked him down figured out who it was and so he came out when he got sick he came out and told everybody who he was

and started telling his whole story and we had him on the air and uh he was just a piece of work he was a lot of fun but he would dress up as Santa Claus and go into the areas of town where people were struggling uh or go to towns where something had happened and they just needed encouragement and it wasn't like five dollars I mean he's giving away hundreds hundreds of dollars

and hundred dollar bills and tens of thousands of dollars on a given trip in a given day it was very cool he was a great secret Santa like Harmony Harmony is a great secret Santa I know well done Harmony and you know the weird thing is is that just like uh Larry Stewart's Legacy lives on and people are now doing Secret Santas all over in his memory

and the harmony wasn't tracking on him I'm sure she just had her own idea there but but if you're tracking that whole idea they don't know who he is you never know what you inspire how many of those uh Gen 2

gen 3 generation three secret Santas are popping up all over uh inspired by you and what you and I would say I have enough hope and Humanity that you know if someone has given a gift like that that

somewhere in their life they will give

as well right like it's like when you are given to you can't help but then to pass that on right it may look different than the original gift given to you but that's where the generosity kind of butter reflect Butterfly Effect can happen and it may not happen every single time but I I have enough faith in humanity that I'm like I think it does like when something is given to you in a Act of generosity your life is

shifted and it changes and then you in turn want to be able to give to so I love the the passing on it's inspiring

this thing called generosity this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today this is our annual giving show here on the Ramsey show we like to inspire generosity and particularly here at Christmas time Merry Christmas to you America we want you to be givers we want you to enjoy money and the greatest joy you'll ever get with it is the joy of generosity one of the ways we also celebrate this uh day of giving on the

show is we get some of the folks that work at Ramsey one of the 1100 team members to come in and tell their giving or receiving story and uh Sarah is with

us on the debt free stage to tell her story hey Sarah tell us your giving story all right so about a year ago and

just in the past few years my grandmother has been such an incredible blessing to my family and myself towards the end of last year in August my grandfather unfortunately passed away due to covid but around the same time my grandmother had made the decision to sell her her home and move in with my parents so while this while this was all happening I was still living at home

and as a family we were like you know what we're going to go through FPU so we did and every single video that we watched because it was a remote class my grandmother was just sitting on the couch quietly just listening and absorbing all the information and I really believe that something just changed in her heart that kind of 10xed her generosity and she was already an incredibly generous person

I mean she'd be the first one to pay for your food every time I went out she'd be like oh and can I slip a few dollars your way for coffee just the sweetest little person a you know religious giver and

she also didn't just give her time but she or give her money but she also gave her time and part of the ways that she did that was every single week for as long as I can remember she would spend a ton of time making just a ton of food for her local church youth group and

every single year she also hosts our Thanksgiving fam family so our Thanksgiving piece so she would spend days on end cooking she would invite her family and not just her family but the entire church congregation oh my God so it was a whole feast and she'd spent days preparing this and she was older in age so she had a weaker heart and she couldn't even like just cook

it all at once she literally had to break it apart that far just to do this wow so it was just an incredible just inspiring woman that she did all of this and through this time uh towards the beginning of this year unfortunately her health did start declining but she wanted to make sure that her daughter's family my mom was well taken care of so as she was

learning all these principles near teaching she had made the decision to pay off her vehicle and a few days later she told my mom you know what I want you to put this in your name because she knew that it would be her vehicle when she passed and she didn't want my mom to have that burden of a car payment and that just helped so much and on top of that my grandmother was my biggest cheerleader in my biggest prayer Warrior as

I had made the decision to move from South Florida to Tennessee to pursue my dream job here at Ramsey's Solutions oh fun yeah we she would pray with me before and after every single interview on top of that she also helped fund one of my grad school tuition semesters and that just helped incredibly as someone who was on baby step three and a few months after that

she actually gave me five thousand dollars towards purchasing my first car wow as I moved up here uh I needed a reliable vehicle to get around and I actually moved up here without the job using the proximity principle to get the job and I couldn't have done this like on my

own but with her support I was able to get my Dave Carr I got my dream job here

and just last weekend I walked for my graduation for my Master's Degree all debt free at 21. oh my gosh so I'm super

grateful for the impact that she's had me on that way in that way but it gets

even better than that and as she was continuing through financial peace towards the end you know we have that generosity video and she actually asked

my mom one day if she would drive her to the bank now my mom had no idea what this like why she wanted to go go to the bank she thought oh maybe she wants to open an account an account but on the drive over she actually revealed that she wanted to pay off my parents house whoa completely like two hundred thousand dollars it was insane and

there was nothing stopping her from doing this wow so she went ahead and she paid off my parents house and without that mortgage payment such a huge weight was just lifted off my parents shoulders and my family and I are just so incredibly grateful for the blessing of that from

her and just her lasting Legacy of generosity and as I've moved up here now uh there's

a weekend since I knew that her health was kind of declining that I had decided to go back and visit her in South Florida and I flew in really early I think like 6 a.m that day and I got to the home and I was sitting at our bedside holding her hand my mother was on the other side also holding her hand and I got the privilege to spend

the last 20 minutes of her life by her side and just the lasting impact of generosity I hope that I can carry that on Wow and this place helps me do exactly that so I really am so grateful to be a part of this Crusade wow you're incredible what a great story oh I love

your granny she's awesome yes how old

was she when she passed she was 76.

stuff all right Sarah tell everybody what you do here and how long you've been on the team I am an email marketer with every dollar and I've been here about eight months and you said you're 21. yes and you just got your Masters and what in strategic Communications and Leadership wow very cool well you're a

great team member and that was a wonderful generosity story very very well grandmother I love it thanks for sharing it Sarah thank you for having me good stuff generous people make us smile generous people make our eyes leak I was crying on that one that one got me that was good right there powerful yeah yeah pop a day wiping wiping my tears away yeah that was good so good stuff ugh

well the granny kicking the grandmother kicking in and just going boom I'm gonna do this and boom I'm gonna do that yeah boom I'm gonna do that and the other thing that just occurs you know as I'm sitting there we've got so many Millennials and gen xers on this team and they get such a bad rap of as uh

not having hustle not having grind not

having that and uh like so many stereotypes they're just inaccurate um there's certainly a segment of gen Z and certainly a segment of millennial that's awful and a segment of the Boomers and a segment exactly there's no question and but I got to tell you we work up close and personal with a bunch of gen Z's that are like her that that lady right there is brilliant beautiful 21. great she's got her you know she's articulate uh just finishes her master's degree I mean uh and and is a you know proud member of

this Crusade and so on so you know they're out there they're out there and uh that you know when you get to meet people like Sarah uh you know that we're gonna be okay the Gen Z is you know there's enough of her enough those like her engines that's right yeah good stuff

hey this is our giving theme hour thank

you for our theme show today thank you for being with us on this it's absolutely incredible to share these stories if you've got a great giving story jump in and we'll uh try to get you on the phone numbers triple eight eight two five five two two five live

how our lives have changed Trudy as in the baby steps Community Facebook group how our lives have changed since uh finding the Ramsey Financial Peace University at our church six years ago before FPU it would be weeks before Christmas we'd be scrambling to find money to pay for gifts make payments on credit cards today my husband called to tell me it's giving Tuesday and we still have a sizable amount of money in our charity account

I stopped decorating the house and started a poll in our town for people's favorite Charities this is the most fun you can have with money before

dinner tonight we are delivering checks oh there we go all right good stuff that's the way it's done intentional giving intentional generosity this is

the Ramsey Show

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our scripture of the day second Corinthians 9 6-7 the point is this

whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully each one must give as he has decided in

his heart not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful

Giver Ralph Waldo Emerson said you cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know

how soon it will be too late oh that's a

good one yeah you know he he might have a future in that writing stuff called Emerson guy you never know this is a giving show for the Ramsay show we do it once a year we should do it more but we're here celebrating the power of generosity Grace is in Tyler

Texas Merry Christmas Grace tell us your

giving story Merry Christmas you guys

it's an honor to come on air today to share my story well my story um was back in 2020 during the height of all of the covet shutdowns in the world spinning it felt like my husband and I

were both fortunate enough to keep working and keep our jobs and actually have overtime opportunity as well as we were doing really good financially during that time when we know a lot of people weren't so when those rounds of stimulus checks started coming in from the government my husband and I both agreed that we wanted to use those checks to bless somebody who was who was struggling during that time

you know we were praying about it like Lord lead us to how you would have us use this money and since there was so many any needs we didn't know you know which need to meet there were so many and the Lord put on my heart to just reach out to a friend of mine who the year prior had moved to

Uganda with her family to oversee and

operate a a children's home there it's

basically like a foster home for babies newborn through age five who either don't have a family or for one reason or another aren't able to be cared for by their families and they take care of these babies and love on them and provide for them and care for them until they're either reunited with their family or are placed with some kind of permanent you know placement or in some

cases domestic adoption and when I reached out to my friend I found out that they had been really hurting because of all of the lockdowns there in Uganda the lockdowns were extremely strict they it was really difficult for

them to be able to leave their facility they had strong regular relations on we're regarding that and even when they were able to leave it's not like all of the markets were open and bustling and so they were running quickly out of

supplies for their Clinic medications equipment as well as clothes for those

grooming babies since babies grow like weeds and they needed to close in the next sizes up and were not able to get them so I asked my friends for a list of

everything they needed for their clinic in terms of clothes for the office everything and she sent that over to me and my husband and I went to Walmart and completely cleared the list and packed up five very large boxes and expressed

shipped them internationally to Uganda for them wow that's fun Grace that's

amazing that is great when they got those boxes they must have thought Santa had shown up for sure yes it was so sweet my friend when the

first boxes started to arrive she opened it and with some of the older babies you know the toddler age um sent me a picture with some of those babies holding some of the the new clothes and items from the boxes and that just it made me cry just from the

joy that I was feeling that I got to be that we got to be a blessing for them you know because we you know we were doing fine financially we didn't need that money and to be able to bless them in that way was just so incredible fun I've had shopping ever amen that is the most fun ever oh Grace that's amazing well done Grace very well done well played

I like it Ian is with us in Milwaukee Merry Christmas Ian Merry Christmas guys I haven't slept because I've been so excited to be on this show wow I'm sorry we didn't mean to have that effect how can we help tell us about it tell us your giving story um so I am I'm currently 37 uh when I

was 35 I had been a police officer uh

for 13 years and um I just recently been promoted to Sergeant and up until that time I had never had

any inkling of heavy mental health issues I extremely healthy I've done everything I ever wanted to do at the department and all of a sudden something just clicked and I was completely debilitated

by a form of OCD where you think you're

going to or you think you did

um harm your kids and my little girls um were two and five at the time and I

love being a girl dad um and I was at work and I'm constantly around all these bad people and I'm like oh my gosh that's me I did something I heard that when I was changing their diapers and my doctor's like no Ian you have OCD and you have it so bad you need

to contact Rogers behavioral health because they're I mean the best in the business so I I call them and they're like we need to get you in our residential program now you are you know you are one of the most severe cases we've seen and so I'm like all right let's do what I called my insurance and they said no we're we're not covering it because it's not worded and patient even though that's what it was and so I'm thinking my gosh we have we

were in baby steps we still are four five and six and I said we can cover this but what happens if my treatment runs past 12 16 weeks and the department

says you're not fit for Duty we're gonna leave I mean I was just so scared because that had been my life and their

Foundation says look we will cover 100

your stay and impatient wow and we will

make sure you you get treated and the the mental health organizations Foundation or the Departments Foundation no the Mental Health Organization oh wow 100 wow and when when I came out and did like their their Partial Program and like daily therapy um we cash flowed that without touching our emergency fund wow um and I did the

disability process for retirement all by myself um and I was able to retire full pension

um and I I could not thank them enough because they they really did save my life 100 in

my family's life and um you know now I get to be a girl dad I get to to talk about this I actually just wrote an article I talked about this at churches and um leadership

conferences and schools and

um you know you guys are my inspiration to do that and that's what I get to do now so well very well done sounds like you're doing good are you I'm doing good um and you know actually I there's a couple of people at your organization Tristan Dawn and Aisha they're listening today and actually just filled out an application for one of the positions with you guys to to give

it a shot and maybe share my talents with you guys wow very cool Ian very cool that's a powerful story though and yeah the generosity that piece is what a burden

that's lifted off you know when you don't have to to pay for something like that I mean that's that's absolutely incredible and you know there's there's things that are definable and you can put your finger on mental health things often aren't as easy to Define I mean if

you need uh heart surgery that's a very definable objective thing if you've got

uh that form in his case a form of OCD

that's a little tougher to uh diagnose

and to Define that goes oh there's an end to this treatment yeah you know and those people stepped up and as he said literally saved his life that's pretty incredible very cool and that's the beauty of having around Health Care Mental Health or a physical care either one having foundations and things that support and move that it's absolutely vital well guys that's a great giving show you folks out

there did it again you inspired each other you inspired America by calling in and giving your great stories Rachel this whole generosity thing is a big deal well it is and it's a huge piece of of why we do what we do here every day getting people in a place where they can be freed up where their money doesn't control them so that they can truly live

and give like no one else and this is that peace that we get to celebrate today so thank you guys so much for calling in great job Austin Zach Ben

James Andrew in the booth the booth

dudes they make the show happen that puts this hour in the boot in the shin oh whatever we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus foreign

co-host on the Ramsay show if you want to do your debt free stream live on the show visit ramseysolutions.com set free

screen we'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story that's ramsesolutions.com debt free screen [Music]

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## 226. The Ramsey Show Live from Chicago


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `o3fGWA4pQ5g` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3fGWA4pQ5g) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:03 |

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Heat [Music]

[Applause]

up

here.

[Applause]

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network, live in the den in Chicago,

this is the Ramsay Show.

Wow. >> Wow. How about this?

>> So good to be here, you guys. This is amazing. >> So, first of all, we're super super glad that you all are here. We're going to have a fun time tonight. Yes.

>> Yeah. I'm in Chicago. I got to have some deep dish. Whether >> Ken, we got we got a special

for you. >> What do we got? >> Tavern or is it actual deep dish?

>> Well, now this is Louise here.

>> All right.

>> Shout out. Yeah. Don't have to lose.

>> Would you like a slice? K. >> I'm going to get a slice. >> All right. Rachel, would you like a slice? >> I mean, sure. If we're all here, ladies, >> I'm going to be a gentleman. And uh, >> you want to give that to Rachel? Pass it down. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let me have one. Let me have one. >> Too much. >> I had a gluten-free one downstairs. Don't worry. It was delicious. >> Trust me, George already had a shot.

>> You had a gluten-free one? >> Yeah. They crush it. >> Special. >> Fun fact, I once ordered 67

>> deep dish pizzas from Lumaladis to Financial Peace Plaza. headquarters on Ice. Did you really? >> Yeah.

>> Too good. >> Okay. You know, we're here to do a show >> apparently and we are here to have some fun and we're going to answer some questions. So, let's get to our first live question.

Uh let's bring our our guest up here. Tell us your name and where you are from. There she is, I believe. Or they Oh, is this a couple question?

>> Yes. We love We don't get this on the show. >> Beware, we don't get to do this on the show. All right.

Tell us your names and where you're from and get to your question.

>> I'm Arnold. >> We're from Portage, Indiana. Our question is, "My mom occasionally asked us to borrow money even though her household income is higher than ours.

So, what are some tips or help to help her budget?" >> Oh, man.

>> She's not asking for budgeting help, is she? She's asking for money.

>> Okay. I think I think this is one of the hardest lessons to learn in life. And I think it took me thousands of dollars of therapy literally for this to like settle in and realize you can't change people. As much as you guys want her to do X, Y, and Z, as much as you want her to budget, live on less than she makes, all the things, unless she wants it, it's not going to happen.

So, it's either in my head a pretty strong boundary of a conversation.

income right now that has to go to this.

We're not going to be able to help you in the future as of now or forever, whatever you want to say, right? Um, and or hey, mom, would you be curious to learn or probably not to learn, it's probably a little patronizing, but like would you like to find a new way to handle your money? Things that have worked for us? If you're curious about that, let me know and you can kind of open the door for her to walk through.

Um, but it's hard and we get this question a lot with families because you're wanting them to not only change,

but now in your case, they're like asking you for money, right? And so there's a boundary that has to >> Rachel's the nicest one of all of us >> and I'll agree. >> And I think Rachel's right, but I think that's step two. Step one is Whose mom is it? >> Mine. >> Mom, no more. You're a grown blank

woman.

This is nuts. And I'm putting a boundary up. This is not happening anymore.

Here's why. You don't have to attack her, but you talk about your reasons and what it's causing for you. And at some point, you're going, by the way, you're getting to that age, and I'm really at that age where you become the parent, and the parent becomes the child. This is a function of life. And I don't know how old she is, but it's headed that direction anyway.

And this is causing strife for you. Yes or no? >> Yeah. >> All right. So, no, mom. Never again. It stops. Never again. I'm putting up a boundary. Then you go to step two. But this is this is not okay. And I know you're smiling about it, but I hope you walk away empowered tonight cuz you got to tell her to to grow. >> I know. Are you guys on the same page with it? Like, are you both annoyed?

Like, yeah. Okay. >> It puts you on. >> It's his mother-in-law. That guy is steaming Willie Beam now.

>> Can fry an egg on each other. >> You can. Well, here's the thing. You can tell her that's maybe also kind is I love you. I'm your daughter. I don't want to become your lender. I care about our relationship too much for it to become a business transaction. And now you don't want to talk to me cuz you know you owe me money. I want to come over for Thanksgiving and give you a hug and sit down and talk about anything else other than the money you owe me.

And that's what really happens on the Ramsay show. can send her calls if things gone arry, but I do think that it starts with you saying no in love and then getting to the root of it if she's willing. And one day she might be. Today might not be that day, but one day when she truly needs help and she sees the way you guys have been living, she's going to say, "Tell me more about how you did it." That's the day you can start to introduce some of our principles and teaching to her.

>> Are you prepared emotionally for her to get really pissed off and cut you off for a season? He's shaking his head. No.

>> Oh, she won't do that. She no cuz I the last time it was like more assertive

like why would I give this to you or if I give this to you when are you going to learn? So a little more mean than I have been. Um but she wouldn't cut me off.

>> Okay. Well that's great news. Have you been giving her money thus far?

>> Yeah. >> How many times? How much total?

>> Oh boy. >> I'd say like twice a year and it can range from a couple hundred to her refrigerator broke. So like a thousand or two. >> And she has she ever paid you back?

She's always paid me back. >> How How What time frame? Is it an agreed upon? >> Last time was the next day, which makes me most angry because you should not be that type with money.

>> Was it like, "Hey, I just need to get to the next paycheck and I'll pay you." >> Tomorrow. Yeah. >> So, you're her payday lender essentially. >> Yeah.

You need to Your wife needs to hear this. This is your moment. You stood up.

What kind of stress is this causing?

>> Step towards the mic. >> Step towards the mic. >> Step towards the light, my friend. >> Man, I'm so Do you want pizza? Do you want the pizza? We'll give you >> Get out. Get out of the situation.

>> Rachel only had two bites. I'll give her her slice if you tell the truth.

>> So you said >> get up on the mic. Get up on the mic.

>> You said what it what kind of stress does it cause? >> What's it doing to you?

>> It it like puts me in the middle because

I want to, you know, we the Bible says we are the lenders, not the borrowers.

So I want to be that, but not every time. And I don't want to be, you know,

the only sole, you know, every time they're coming to us saying, "Hey, we need this." So, it kind of put me puts me in the middle when I'm like, "It's your mom, but we shouldn't be doing this." So, >> yeah, >> it's hard. >> Yeah. >> So, are you prepared tonight, ma'am, to

to draw a line in the sand?

>> Yeah. >> Why are you smiling and laughing so hard? >> Because it's hard to explain because I've tried I've bought her every time.

>> Get up on the mic. We got to be able to hear. >> Oh, sorry. I've already like done all the things. Um I've bought her every dollar. I've tried. We talk about it. He They work together. So like they talk about every single thing she has. They work together. >> You work with your mother-in-law.

>> That's how we met.

>> Oh wow. So we just got tried. Like the

next thing would be like inviting her over secretly and just for nine weeks straight doing financial piece. But >> that's called staging an intervention.

>> I would have snacks. I would have fun stuff. No. Um next. But

a no would be easy. So it's not that.

It's just like >> she told you loud and clear. She doesn't want she doesn't want help in that regard. >> But like I want to help her.

>> That's right. You want her Yeah. her to help herself. >> I'm more of like like step one. Yes.

>> You're an idiot. Like get it together.

>> Um so I'm more like on the how do I help her step. >> Yeah. I first of all I did not say that she's an idiot. >> No, I did. I did.

>> Yeah. And I and I think honestly the the

idiotic behavior is you >> helping her.

>> Yeah. And I'm not calling you an idiot.

>> That's okay. >> All right. The crowd's like, "Ooh, but but I'm saying if I was going to label some really dumb behavior, it's actually you. She's broken. You're not broken." >> Gotcha. >> And uh she's going to have to hit rock bottom financially. I hate to say this

for you to be able to get through to her. >> Yeah. >> So, I do think it's a clear boundary.

Love, I'm gonna be your daughter, not your lender. Son-in-law, this is a weird deal cuz she's like in the cube next to you doing TPS reports. You're going to have to figure this out, too. So, you guys got to come together in very clear boundaries here. And mom needs to get a very clear but kind message. This is over forever.

>> And at that point, you're going to have to move on. It may not be ugly and that

she cut you off, but she's gonna come

back. By the way, I don't think she's going to get this >> stern message the first time.

>> Gotcha. >> So, what are you going to do? You got to prepare for that when she comes back. A second, a third, a fourth, and maybe even a fifth time. >> Gotcha. >> So, you guys are brave. Thanks for standing up and ask this question. Y'all give them some love. So good.

And let me say this too, the borrowing is different than the giving, right? So both need boundaries around it. But but when you are lending money and expecting to be paid back, like that's a no all the way around. Now, if there's a giving element and there's a family member, a friend, whatever, and you as a couple decide that we're in a good place financially, we feel like yes, we can do this.

We want to do this. We feel like they really truly need help.

that's a whole other prerogative. So there is a difference between the giving and the lending. So I would cut the lending off >> hardcore right now today 100% and I and probably the giving I think there's an element of that that's all true in this >> yeah the question asked am I enabling misbehavior or am I helping someone who's hurting right now and there's a big difference and clearly this is a long pattern of misbehavior on on mom's part. >> Yes.

And this is awkward, but I have a very personal experience with this with George years ago when George wasn't making very much money at Ramsay.

had to say no. >> He's got a great head of hair. I thought Ken would know what the best blow dryer is. >> So, we got through it though, didn't we?

>> We did. We salvaged the relationship >> and we're here to tell about it. I must tell you, we've been talking about this segment of the show for a couple of weeks. We're going to do a settle the debate and we've got a brave couple here

uh uh who is going to jump in and uh we

are going to settle the debate. Now, how many of you love Judge Judy? Do we got any Judge Judy fans in here? >> She's great. >> Yeah. Honestly, not as many as I thought. Uh how many of you are familiar with the Supreme Court? Let's hear from you. Are you so familiar?

[Applause] >> Judge Coleman presiding. >> Well, no, it's the three of us. So, we are a mini Supreme Court. Oh, >> on this decision. And so we're going to hear this case. We will ask questions.

You all can applaud, moan, weigh in your

laugh, weigh in with your reaction, and then we shall decide. Are you ready, John? >> All right, young couple. Tell us your names and where you're from.

>> Hi, I'm Jenny. >> And I'm Jake. And uh we are from Valparezo, Indiana. >> Okay. Jenny and Jake, give them some love. This is brave. Thanks.

>> Okay. I don't know who is speaking for you or if you're both speaking, but please give us this argument. What is

happening with you two?

>> Uh, we have the age-old debate. I'm a spender. He's a saver. He thinks I should spend less. I think he should relax and let me spend. And also, he needs to start spending a little bit maybe too. But I think to add some context here, uh we are we are not quite

in step seven. Uh so I think the gazelle

intensity should persist. What step are you on? >> 456.

>> Okay, boy. The crowd's turning on you fast. I know. >> This is not going to go my way. >> These people over here are already ready to throw pizza at you.

>> Okay. What are you wanting to spend on specifically? Is it lifestyle? Is it restaurants? Is it vacation? Is it what?

New car? Like what's the what's the thing you're >> Is it $20,000? Is it $200?

>> That's fair. Uh vacations.

Uh clothes. Just little Amazon. Just

>> cute. >> Cute sweater. Add a cart. Nothing like big. I don't care about cars. I don't care about >> Okay. So, it's like >> Do we have a number? >> An extra like what 400 bucks a month or something? >> Yeah, that's a good number. >> Okay. >> Is that Oh, wait a second. You agreed with too much too quickly. Is that really what you want? An extra 400 bucks?

Like you, by the way, >> she already gets that. I don't know. That's There's no >> Wow, she gets that.

>> I'm gonna ask you because this is a Ram. This is the Ramy show. How is she all make a year? This is >> uh just shy of like 160.

>> Okay. >> Both of you working outside. >> Just me. >> Just careful careful. She's working in the home. >> The way he said that. >> Four kids. I think this >> What are their ages?

>> What are What are their ages?

>> 7, five, three, six months.

>> Oh my gosh. Give her the money.

>> How are you even here tonight?

>> It wasn't easy.

>> God bless your ministry. How much did you Did you pay a babysitter?

>> Oh, her parents. So, >> there we go. This guy's not paying for babysitters.

Knew it. Okay. So, you have a baby step six goal to pay off the house early.

>> Okay. >> I already have that set. That'll be done in five years. >> Good. And in your mind, is that extra $400 that should go to the house versus to her lifestyle? Why not do it faster?

>> Okay, listen. I'm a I'm I'm a tight wad at heart. How many tight wads are out there? >> Thank you for making yourselves known.

Here's the deal. This is where you lost the audience. You said we got to keep up. The gazelle intensity, guys. Gazelle intensity happens in >> one through this cyborg. Once you're through getting out of debt, you got the emergency fund. We move from intensity to intentionality, which means we can let our foot off the gas a little bit.

We can increase the scing fund for vacations and upgrading the car in cash and buying clothes on Amazon if that's what you so choose. So, I think there's a there's going to be a split here. You're on track to do the house. Let's move some funds over to let her enjoy her life while she maniacally is a great

goal. I mean, 5 years gets your house paid off >> cuz how how old are you guys?

>> 35. So, you have a paid off house in at

the age of 40. >> Incredible. Okay.

>> Debtree. >> Debtree completely. >> I have a couple questions here. I'm not ready to decide yet.

>> You said that.

>> I'm locking in my vote, Bob. >> Uh Jake, you said, have you already decided, J? >> Yeah, I'm locking in my vote. >> Okay. Are they doing Jeopardy? I said, Bob, is that price is right? I'm mixing up. >> I don't know. I don't know. I I I need more information. Jake, you said that you you already give her $400 a month.

Is that like just blow money? Yes or no?

I do the >> So, she does the budget. Um, and so the

numbers are all moved to where they need to be moved to. It's We're zero dollar.

So, >> No. No. But you said >> I don't give her the money necessarily, right? It's like weird. >> But she gets $400 for whatever Jenny

wants. >> Sure. I I would say it probably averages out to that. >> Jenny, on the mic, please. Do you concur

with this information that you get roundabout 400 bucks a month to do whatever Jenny wants with?

>> Yeah, I mean I make the budget. He doesn't even want to look at it and I do all of it. I'm the spender, but I'm also the nerd. >> Boy, you are >> I love a budget. I love a budget.

>> I get it. Okay, so here's the deal. So, you're asking for we're settling debate.

Should you get more spending money? And Rachel asked you >> and he can spend a little. He needs to spend. >> Well, he but he he needs to, but he won't. Okay. That guy is not He squeaks

when he walks.

All right. [Applause] I'm just telling you. Yeah. And listen,

there's no problem with that, brother. I'm just calling balls and strikes. All right. Jenny, how much more money are

you saying you would like to allocate to the Jenny have a fun day because she has four kids fund?

>> I'm actually happy with the spending. I just want it to be like not him like having to side. >> It's the purchasing.

It's the side eye like amount is fine.

It's every time an Amazon package.

>> Why are you getting guac with that?

>> No.

>> Now Jake has something to say. Jake's got something to say. Go ahead.

>> Now I'm Now I'm just being liable. This is uh >> Are you telling me that's fake news?

You've never said anything like that. Absolutely fake news. >> Have you done Have you done a side eye when she spends the $400?

>> Well, yeah. when there's package after package after package. >> Is it in the $400? >> I'm thinking I have no idea. I I have no idea how much. >> You know why you don't know? Cuz you're not in the budget, >> right? >> So, you're not you have no skin in a game, but you're Mr. Opinion.

>> Well, >> I know. It's why I'm the judge. I'm on fire, people. >> I just think if if I were also a spender, we'd be paying off our mortgage in 8 n 10 years from now as opposed to the five. So, no, you can't. Someone has to write it in.

>> I'm I am now ready to rule. Any other questions? >> I just want to I'm trying to play devil's advocate uh advocate here. Who breaks down the boxes

>> every time?

>> It's not even an attempt. >> Are they thrown out in the garage?

>> No. Right. >> Just right in the walkway. The worst possible spot you can >> Can I tell you I think that's the root cause of the rift in your relationship is it's a part-time job for me breaking down Amazon boxes in my house. And I'm tired of it. Of course, that's very precise. >> If you bought it, you break it down.

>> Jenny, >> hey, I I have a question. Okay. No, I don't agree with that. But >> of course you don't. >> Spoken to someone who's never broken down a box in her life. >> She's never had a splinter. She doesn't even know what it is.

>> Look at these nails. Look at these things. That's big money right there.

You can't hide money.

>> How did you grow up with money?

>> Oh, I can tell you. Uh, yes. Exactly

like Ken's thinking.

>> Go ahead, tell us. >> Yeah, tell us. >> Okay. Uh, you know, we had what we

needed, but nothing more really.

>> Was it stress? Was there like a level of stress with it? Okay. So, I think the real issue, honestly, I think understanding what is going on.

Like we had a couple um some friends over and they were he was literally talking about how he got frustrated that she buys the nicer milk and she's like, I just don't get it.

everything going to be okay right it's kind of these deeper questions that almost get triggered that you may not even realize and then for you feel shame

and like you feel bad and guilty with doing the plan the plan that we've planned out and you're making me feel this way and so I don't feel like I have permission to enjoy the income of our household because I'm getting judged with every little purchase and that's probably hurtful, right? So, so deep down in it, I think seeing each other two or three layers down of what's what's really really really going on under that, but I do want you more involved with budget because I do think if you see it's within a controlled element, she's not out of control, right?

You're not you guys aren't secretly deeply in debt and she's not spending thousands and thousands of dollars.

There's there's something else going on.

And so I for you guys in your marriage, I think that yeah, to kind of figure out, okay, what's really what's really happening, but I've got my vote locked in. >> Well, we'll start with you, madam.

>> I'm siding with you, lady. What's your name again? Jenny. >> Jenny. I was right there. Sorry, Jenny.

I said, lady. >> You're siding with Jenny. >> I'm siding with Jenny. I think that it's totally appropriate.

It does not feel out of bounds. It does. It's not a crazy percentage of your income. >> It's a controlled matter.

You're doing the budget. You're tracking in the Every Dollar app. I mean, you know what's going on. >> You have the freedom to spend.

Judge George. I've always wanted to say that. Judge >> feels good. The court has ruled.

I'm going to go with Jenny. Caveat. Jake must look at the budget and must find a hobby and must force a line item in budget to spend money.

Is that fair? And in response, Jenny must break down boxes for one month.

>> And that's fair. I'm fair.

>> I'm tough, but I'm fair.

That's a good ruling. >> I I have to concur with my fellow judges. Uh Jake, to you, number one, you've been a good sport. Number two, you're terrified.

>> I'm No, I'm serious. I'm looking at a young man who's been terrified his whole adult life because of what he grew up with, money. So, I'm going to side with

Jenny, but I'm going to tell you to over

the next 30 days force yourself to have

some conversations with people you trust, you feel very safe with, including Jenny, about your real fears of money. I mean, real tangible fears.

At this point in your life, a young man who's doing a great job providing for his wife and those little kids, you're terrified. And the thing that's going to help you is to confess what that fear is. Number one. Number two, you need to confess to her that you have not trusted her like you need to trust her. You you've stayed out of the budget, so the trust is there to a degree, but the side eye and the bad attitude about the packages and all the things is a manifestation of the fact that you don't

like the way that she spins. And so, we've got to get on the same page. And as a guy who's 51, three kids that are

teenagers, one's here in college in Chicago, and it goes like that. I told Rachel today, "The days are long, but the years are short." And I'm going to tell you something. If you're not careful, you're going to be fearful your

entire kids' lives, and they're going to adopt that same view. As opposed to you are not promised tomorrow, you better have some fun and make some freaking memories with Jenny and those babies.

That's my ruling. Thank you guys.

Thank you guys so much. >> That was so good. That's a lot of bravery right there. I I want to do more of that. >> Great job.

>> What? >> Pastor Ken, >> that was good. >> Pastor Ken, rebuking the fear.

>> I'm telling that's what it is. You call it out. Quick shout out to Rachel. You really helped me begin to see this on the show when you wrote your book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And I give that book away all the time on the show. You hear me do it to couples >> cuz that's the deal. That happening.

>> That entire book would save marriages from financial ruin. So, if you know a couple that struggle with money, get Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and gift it to them. It really does what we just did there. So, and I want to say thanks to them. That was fun. All right, let's get to our next question. Who do we got next? This is fun. Let's give them some love when they come up to the mic. There we go.

>> Yeah.

Tell us tell us your name and where you're from. >> My name is Lynette. I'm from a little town south of here called Odell. Um, my question is about the average person who's trying to make ends meet.

Um, my husband and I are starting a financial class at our church next week. I am also the outreach director at our church. So, I'm in our community. I'm seeing the needs.

I run our church's food pantry and people just aren't making it.

Woo. Give us a little bit more of a

economic picture in that area. How much

of this We know a lot of this is debt.

We get that. But how much of this is a limited economy uh for people to move up? Is it a low wage area is what I'm getting at. >> Yes. Um I actually know the stats on that. Uh I think we're at 15% poverty level and below. And then I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term Alice, but it's income limited asset cons. No,

I'm sorry. Asset limited income constrained meaning they have no assets and also the ability to make income is is constrained. >> Is that government housing? >> Uh we have some Yes. Um we in addition

to that we're just losing government funding. So we lost our rural transit in our area for low-income people. It's just kind of sad. >> Yeah. >> That's tough. >> Kind of sad for us. Not us, >> but our community, >> but your community. That's right. Yes.

Absolutely. Well, yeah. I kind of partial the two conversations. I do think there's a real poverty conversation that they're in very a very very very difficult situation and then you have another group that's just living the middle class lifestyle in general and where their expectations are for lifestyle. So, I would probably tackle those two different things probably differently probably what I would say. Um, but I would speak probably more to the to the middle class situation that what our expectations are in life is so much higher than it was in

the 80s, right? Like you look at square footage of home, you look at material of what our kitchens are made of. I mean, whatever the thing is, um, what we expect in life today is just so much greater and it's not a reality, right?

And so for for people just to to get what they want with the income that they have. Um, and that's what we tackle I feel like a lot on the Ramsay show.

There's a lot of that because it's a lot of credit card debt and car loans. It's all the consumer side. Um, but for your

situation specifically, I mean that poverty that's that's a much harder bigger conversation. Um, and can you talk a lot about work finding I mean the income is the that's that's the answer >> is getting the income up and so how to do that and what that looks like.

>> It's a lot there's a lot of facets to that but finding >> Yeah. not a I can't give a really succinct strategy because the reality is this is a macroeconomic problem in your area.

>> It feels micro because it's local but it's macro and u you know

>> George can speak to you know how they can cut cut to the bone but at the end of the day if they're limited income their quality of life is not going to be very very good. So now, you know, I hate

to say this, but if you want to help those people, you help them find a path to a better job, and that means a pathway out of that community, >> right? Our largest community is about 30 minutes away, um, 30 miles away. So that's hard for many of them. They don't have reliable transportation, which you can imagine with no income.

>> So, but I agree with you. I mean, yes, we need to find something for for somewhere for them to work to get them ahead, but that's it's hard where we live. >> Well, and let me encourage you, the messaging for you needs to be this is going to be a long path. It's a little bit of Dave Ramsey truth.

very long time, do some things that are very difficult in your life to then be able to essentially afford a car that could get you 30 minutes away. Or to say we're going to I mean, the pioneers did

it with nothing.

>> A covered wagon mentality, right?

>> Say we're going to take everything we own and we're going to make a better life. Now that is a that is a message of empowerment >> and you don't get that in politics because what you get is policy and all the arguing but in all reality in your situation it is an economically depressed area and there is no simple solution.

Cuz by the way, that's going to happen anyway. And I'd rather it happen on the backs of capitalism and rugged American individualism than to just watch the thing die slowly and watch them die on government benefits. That's not a good way out, right? So, you know, they don't have much of a choice. But I want to bring George in because I think he's got great insight here on there is a way to

teach and to promote living on very

little. >> Yeah. >> Is it your book, George? >> No, I'm not going to just read my book.

Um I'm happy to to gift that to you guys and send you a box to to all the folks out there. I I think the true answer is, as Dave would say, we don't sell magic wands. You're going to have to choose your heart. Heart is staying where we are.

Hard is moving. I mean, I've come from a family of immigrants.

So, what you can do is on a case- by case basis, sit down with everybody and have them make an every dollar budget and go, "Okay, what is the root of the problem?" Because at least then we have clarity. If it's an income problem, great. We know we need to go make more.

If it's a debt problem, we know, hey, we got to get rid of these payments. we're going to debt snowball this by making more, selling stuff, side hustles, whatever they can do. And the budget will give them at least a financial reality check of them just looking in the mirror instead of looking to all the things they can't control out there, which just creates a new cycle of cynicism and hopelessness.

>> And so that person, the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution. And so your job, the best you can do is help them believe that.

>> I'll try. >> Thank you for what you do. It's a very noble. >> Give her some love. Wow.

I I'm so inspired by Lynette that that's

amazing because I'm going to tell you something that is >> really difficult work. It is difficult work to be a light in a community like that where there is no light. And so you're you're a great American. Is that your husband with you?

>> Okay. What's his name? >> Colin. >> Colin.

Okay. Well, I just wanted to shout you guys out. you really represent the best of us and uh any way we can support you uh just let our team know tonight we want to make sure we get as much resources as we can to you.

>> James uh James, our fearless leader uh

is here tonight. >> James, >> how many of you ever laid eyes on James Childs? >> Producer James, >> give James Child some love.

This is our guy.

>> You hear us talk about him and he keeps us I mean, God bless this guy to keep us all on the rails, including Dave. I mean, and is he isn't he handsome? Look how ruggedly handsome he is. >> A lot of personalities, literally. >> A lot of personalities. So, number one, we wanted you to meet James. James is phenomenal. James, tell everybody real quick how long you've been producer of the Ramsay Show. >> 14 years. >> 14 years.

So, great.

So, I'm going to give it to James because we've got a fun little segment here. James, tell us what we're doing. >> Well, before that, I just want to say this is so much fun because we in the booth all have these same reactions and it's fun getting to hear it live. Like when we react to these calls and now we can kind of hear it in the room.

So, this is a blast. And Jake, we the crew agreed. We're going to take you wherever you are.

>> and Jake's paying.

>> That's right. Yeah. We're not paying.

>> All right. So, here's the deal. We have a fishbowl here. So, most of the questions tonight are obviously from the audience about their life situations, but we also got a bunch of fun questions that are for you guys here on the stage.

So, these questions are meant to be kind of quick, a little bit rapid fire, uh, a little bit insight into your life and your personality. So, we've probably got about 15 in here. So, I'd say let's hit like half of them and then we'll come back again and do a little bit later. >> So, speed round, guys. So, quick answers. >> You don't need to tell us, Ken. Be difficult, huh?

>> Hey, listen. >> Ken loves his words. >> Dropping wisdom. All right.

Mr. Sound bite over there with your koi hair.

>> Okay, here we go. I'll read the first one. >> You need your readers? >> I might. Are you the free spirit or the nerd in your marriage and give an example? All right, >> that's for all of us. I'm the I'm the free spirit. Um I just really love to buy clothes and stuff.

>> Uh we're responsible about it, you know, but like >> spender for spirit. I'm very spontaneous and I will just forever be a free spirit. You know, I do the budget but it's exhausting. I sometimes need to go buy something after we do the budget

>> just to enjoy it >> just to regulate my nervous system.

>> Purchase. Yeah. Free spirit for sure. Uh

I think the best example is Winston. We have like we have the every dollar budget and I'm great with that and I love it. I'm like you. I'm a spender but I do like checking it. I feel in control. It feels great. And Winston has, I think maybe three, four, maybe

even five Excel documents on his computer mapping out different things.

And he changes the code in the Excel cell thing and it changes all Oh, I I

can't I can't >> All you people are repressed. I'm just going to tell you, you're repressed. >> Oh my gosh. Okay, got you guys.

>> No shock to anybody. I am the nerd. I have multi I have my every dollar budget. I have like outside spreadsheets that I'm working on. I get the bank transactions to my text messages and I'll text my wife like, "Hey, was this you or fraud?" Cuz I almost think it like if it was fraud, they would spend less than my wife does.

And then she goes, "Guys, you've heard this one. I'm going to return most of it." You can't even argue with that. You

can't argue with that. So, there you go.

I am the nerd proudly.

>> Love that. Okay. Uh, next question.

What's the best gift you've ever received or the best you've given? So,

you can either go give or receive. Uh, I'll go receive. Um,

I got a giant Blackstone griddle. I

mean, it's like it's like my own little habachi table. You know what I'm talking about? My wife got that for me for a Father's Day. And it's just I love cooking for the family. I love cooking for all of our We We were a house where all of our kids' friends were over all the time. So, I got so much joy out of that. And uh I'm going to say the Blackstone griddle because you can cook anything on it. burgers, fried rice, vegetables, you name it.

>> That's good. >> What do you got? >> Winston got me a nice ring when our middle daughter was born and that was a really special ring. But I'm not a creative person.

Like I don't I'm not good at creating anything. Not don't ask me to do anything creative. But I'm thinking of the lake house. And I think one of the most creative gifts I did was to mom and dad or no, it was to dad for Father's Day about 5 years ago for the lakehouse.

Maybe it's on my mind. And it's a sign. I got it off Etsy. a sign and there's an arrow that point I didn't make it.

messy, but it's a sign and one arrow points and it says Papa Dave's dock that way. The one below is the arrow back to the house. It says Mimi's kitchen and they have a fence for all the dogs and the other arrow goes the other way to the dog park. Like it's like a little like arrow thing for the lakehouse.

Ain't that creative? >> That's really cute. >> I mean, somebody was creative. You clearly weren't.

>> I came up with what was on the side. >> I think it was a lovely gift.

>> George, one last >> I'll give you a recent one. Uh, so I have a one-mon-old son now. It's our second. Thank you.

Thank you. And, uh, I didn't know about this, but there's a new thing called a push present where the woman demands a

gift understandably for carrying a human

being for 9 months and pushing it out.

Hence the word push present. And so I thought, you know, we have a lot of stuff. I'm done with stuff. Let's do an experience. And so I got my wife tickets to Backstreet Boys at the Sphere in Vegas in January. And I'm very proud of

myself, Ken, cuz boy did that hurt.

Oh, I was like, this does this count as your birthday and Christmas and our anniversary next year? She's like, no, that was one one gift. >> One gift. Such a great husband.

>> You know who needs to have drinks with you? Jake. >> Yeah, >> we already talked. We're going to compare spreadsheets later.

>> Oh man, I got to tell you, uh, the Backstreet Boys, huh? >> Yeah, it's back. It is one of the best concert. >> It changed her life, >> y'all.

With the sphere, I had chills. I was so em I almost cried. I was so emotional.

>> Was it a certain song that pulls that string? >> You know what? But what I learned, I won't go on my whole tangent. I learned this. Actually, someone on Instagram sent me this article and I was like, "Yes, that's what I'm talking about." When you your music between the ages of 10 and 16 of why your when your brain is like forming like certain parts of your brain, music specifically during that age sits in a part of your brain that is different than any other time in life.

So, when that gets triggered, it's a level of nostalgia that gives you like literal like something chemically happens to your body. And that was happening to me at the sphere.

>> It's science, Ken. How can you argue that? Well, this explains a lot. This is why to this day if I hear Hold On by

Wilson Phillips, I really enjoy it and I

feel a little guilty about it. Like I got to turn my man card in. But now I get it. >> Yeah. For me it's Living Levita Loca. So you can have your man card back, >> right? >> Oh, Ricky Martin. It's >> a good one. >> You got to love. And by the way, I'm not going. She's going with a friend.

>> Good. As you should. >> I don't want to be a part of that. I got sensory issues. I >> see the girls. women screaming in my ear for 3 hours over men who can't dance anymore. >> Yes, they can. No, no, they can still sing in It's very impressive. It's very impressive. >> It's an animatronic up there. I'm convinced it's AI. >> I'm telling you, the amount of Ben Gay in that green room after the show.

Unbelievable. >> Oh, their dogs are barking back there.

They are. And I just got to say this hot take. >> The dogs are barking. You never heard that? >> You know what that mean? By the way, inside baseball, Rachel knows very little cultural reference phrases at all. Like, my dogs are barking.

>> Who's never Has anyone not >> I'm from Boston. I learned that in the South. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're raising your hand. What? Did you don't >> Of course you do. >> Has everyone never heard of that? >> This guy's got some dogs that are barking. >> Okay, we got some.

>> All right, we have >> Let's keep the dogs in the house, pal.

All right, let's get this show back on the road. You heard of that one, Rachel?

>> Get the show back on the road.

>> Yeah. Get this train on the tracks.

Uh, perfect. Nailed it. Okay. All right.

Uh, next up, we're going to go to another question. Laura is joining us.

Give Laura some applause as she comes to the mic.

>> Hi, Laura. Tell us where you're from.

>> Uh, Logan Square here in Chicago.

>> Great. >> Yeah. Uh, I am 29, baby step two. Um,

just student loans left, but I'm going I'm a bridesmaid for my friend's black tie wedding here in Chicago.

And so I've already bachelorette and

then went to the bridal shower. Didn't get a gift yet. And then I

very nice rehearsal dinner and then obviously the very nice wedding. What would an appropriate gift be? My boyfriend and I kind of disagree about obviously we kind of each do something since we're both going together for all these events of how much we should each be giving. >> Oh, this is great.

>> Okay. I I'm a little old school wedding

etiquette here. Have you given a gift at all at any point? >> Um, no. Other than I mean other than the uh >> when we travel together, right? Like I think we all split the Airbnb for the >> Sure. Okay. Yeah. But you haven't given a physical gift yet. Okay.

>> I got a quick question for everybody and you Rachel. Why does the boyfriend He's just the boyfriend. Why does he have to buy a wedding gift? Am I Am I too cheap on there? George, you got >> Are you friend? Is he friends with the groom? >> Yes. And that's So, we're going to a wedding actually the weekend before.

That's just for my friend and he's not giving a gift for that one. I'll give one for both of us. >> Okay. I have an idea. >> Oh, I like it. >> I don't really have an idea, but kind of an idea cuz I'm not creative. Go on Etsy. What's like a What's a really

sentimental, really not expensive, but really cool thing that you could do that's like, oh yeah, it's not going to be an obvious like KitchenAid mixer that you know what I mean like that she's going to know the price of it. >> Do you think someone wants that for their I feel like >> No, but between your like your friendship or something like it's a gift to her. >> That's fair. >> Um and it's something there that's not going to cost a lot.

>> Okay. You're all black tying me up. I can't. No. Like like no. Like it's like ask her to name 30 things on the registry. She'll lose track after seven.

I wish I was >> I want to just give money. I don't I don't want to give her stuff. Ideally, I was I thought I should give >> Oh, you're just going to give like a >> I mean, ideally, I wanted to give like 150 each person. >> Oh, I hear you. I hear you.

>> I mean, for like a money Oh, I like this. This is a little more specific. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. I got you.

>> It usually is a phone call, but honestly, you've spent so much already.

I just be like, "Thanks for being my friend and being here for everything. I don't really care." >> So, let me get this straight. You're a bridesmaid. I Okay, call her me stupid.

I thought if you were a bridesmaid, you don't get a gift cuz like you're doing a lot already. You're spending a lot of money to be a bridesmaid.

You agree with this or you still get a gift. Okay. I'm hearing from the uh especially the older ladies in the room saying >> I'm going to go I like your 150. I think 150 150 >> each person.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. Total total my boyfriend feels like prices right now.

>> Oh yeah. This is good. >> I listen I love this. I told the audience to speak up.

I love it. It's my opinion. I'm going 150 as you I'm not speaking on behalf of the boyfriend. Uh but I'm saying to you I think 150 that's nice.

>> That's nice if it's cash. I don't believe you would not. >> Well, it's just I just know the amount of money you've already spent and I mean the way you're talking about it's a very elevated everything's been elevated experiences. So, I can't imagine what you're spending on dresses all.

I mean, you're spending a lot. >> Um >> I'm assuming maybe not.

>> Okay, that's go tot

a gift from my groomsman for my own wedding. Listen, >> you usually give a gift, but I'm saying

>> normalize no gifts if you're in the wedding.

Thank you. >> I know it's etiquette. >> I don't think that's a stupid etiquette.

It's etiquette. >> I went to the bachelor party. I'm taking up all my That's what I'm saying. Get creative with the gift itself. I think I'm going to go more George. I don't think you're being realistic. And I don't have a fundamental problem with either one of your answers. I just don't think it's realistic with people expect things. You yourself just revealed to me another sign of the apocalypse tonight that we have a push gift now.

>> Yeah. >> Push presents. Push presents. push present, whatever. That didn't exist when my wife had a baby. She got flowers

and whatever. I don't know. Too many gifts. So, we live in a society now where everybody expects something. And so, I'm trying to give you practical advice. I would go with a low cash gift or else she's going to be mad that you would you go low cash cuz it's so obvious. Like, that's my thing, right?

>> I thought it was supposed to give money to replace what they're paying on your the plate of food. Yeah.

>> And so I'm getting two dinners, rehearsal and then regular. And they're nice like salmon. >> How do we know she's even paying for this with her own money?

>> Now we're paying the parents for covering the bill. >> No, she and her fiance are paying for it. >> Wow. That's on them. That's on.

Listen, some of my friends are fancier than me. I can't keep up. I cannot keep up with my fancy friends. I guess the easy solution out of my element.

>> Don't invite me to your wedding. How about that?

>> Now that that I concur. I think >> I think $300 isn't going to break you. I think if you decide to do that, it's fine. But I do think this like idea that

we're just going to keep going and going and going and going and going is ridiculous in general, right? And I know you're it's it's a tough position like and we actually did a we did a I think it's smart money happy hour episode about being single friends today. How expensive it is just to be a friend with someone >> and 30th trip and the 40th trip and you better come with me internationally.

they have a lake house. >> Yeah. Yeah, you could. You could.

>> I think that's the play.

>> You need a sponsorship with Etsy by the way. >> And I never go like I'm not I'm not give her some love. Wasn't that good so far?

But can I say >> yes

>> I am not as bougie as you. Even though I'm the truffled mac and cheese up here.

Uh a black tie wedding kind of feels like a dream. I would be that would be so fun to go to a black tie wedding.

>> Only a woman says that >> the people that have to wear the long when you're the bridesmaid but like everyone's just I don't know. It just seems so like >> Yeah. I I think I'd rather get a colonoscopy.

>> I There are a lot of people. Hey, have fun. >> There's a lot of people in this room who get it. Earn your money back, girl. Earn

your money back on that open bar.

>> You know, that's right. Milk that open bar for all it's worth. No guy wants to go to a black tie anything. All right.

There it is. All right. Hey, fun segment coming up. You ready, guys? We're going to call it two truths and a lie. All right. So, let me set this up because you all the audience get to weigh in here. Okay. So all of us have done the Ramsay show for a long time before that uh the Dave Ramsey show. So we've been on and and when you do that many hours

live uh you hear some things, right?

People call in and say some things. And so uh what I'm going to do is I'm going to roll through a list here and uh I'm going to read three statements, okay? Uh

A, B, and C statements and you all are going to guess which one is the lie. You got it? >> And these are actual things that callers have said. Two out of the three are.

>> That's right. Two out of the three.

>> One is a lie. >> One is a lie. >> Two are real calls we took on the show.

One is our call we took. >> We got that. >> I love it. Here we go. A. My husband

thinks the government isn't real and has stopped paying our debts.

>> Hold hold hold. Just Some of you people, that's all you do is listen to the show.

>> You don't get extra credit for that.

>> Yeah. Just calm your jets. You're going to get to vote in full throat in just a second. B, I was scammed out of $100,000

being catfished on a dating website. And C, should I install a pay phone pay

phone booth in my house to get free phone service?

>> Which one is the lie?

>> All right, let's go. A. Who thinks?

>> Who's A? A. >> Who thinks it's A? >> A. Is A the >> Anybody think it's A? >> Okay, not A. >> Yeah, we got one back there. All right. Anybody think it's C?

>> All right. The real answer is B.

>> Um George and I were on together when a lady called in and said, "My husband thinks the government isn't real and has stopped paying all of the taxes, debts, everything." It was a Y'all remember that? It was just >> Oh boy. I never That was true confession here on the live show. >> Hey, keep your men off the internet, ladies.

All right. Just going to say it right now. Uh, I mean, that's a call where George and I couldn't say what we really wanted to say. It was just a train wreck.

>> I told her she's going to go to jail. >> She's going to go to jail if she doesn't >> That's sad. Yeah. >> Yeah, it was really sad. Okay, here we go. >> A, should I pay $5,000 to bail my

boyfriend out of jail? B, should we prioritize a reverse vasectomy?

And C, I'm 14 years old and have $21,000

in debt.

What is it? A. >> Is A the lie?

>> How many think it's B? Should I prioritize a reverse vasectomy?

>> A few people. And then finally, how many of you think it's C? I'm 14 years old and have 21,000 in debt.

Okay, the real answer, the lie is A. Should I pay 5,000? Uh George and I again were on when we took the call about prioritizing a reverse vasectomy.

>> What did we say? I bit my lip

>> cuz I thought it was insane to reverse it in the first place. >> Yeah. Much less pay for >> What was the situation? >> Huh? >> What was the situation? Second marriage.

>> I deemed it was not worthy of a reversal. >> Okay. >> Just Google it, Rachel. Reverse vasectomy on Google. The call will pop up. >> Yeah. And uh and then the uh this call came in. A 14-year-old really did tell Dave once that he had 21,000 in debt.

Okay. Next. Uh, A. My wife maxed out her

credit card on McDonald's.

>> The Diet Cokes are good. >> Yeah. B, my house is haunted by ghosts.

Should I sell it?

>> C. My husband took out a credit card on our 12-year-old.

>> You all think B is the lie?

>> C. >> I can't hear anybody. All right, the lie

is C. My husband took out a credit card on our 12-year-old. Uh, George and I again took this one. >> Oh, y'all have the craziest one. George and I get the good calls. Uh, the my wife maxed out her credit card at McDonald's. That was >> I did the math on air and could not crack it. >> This lady was >> She's was spending like 30 something dollars a day at McDonald's. >> Yeah. A lot of Happy Meals. How do you do that? >> A lot of toys. >> It's crazy.

>> All right. Next. Uh, A. Should I sell my daughter's Taylor Swift tickets to pay off her debt? Easy, easy, easy.

You You folks out there, they don't miss

a beat.

Uh B, I bought an expensive monkey and

then it started attacking my fiance.

And C, I won $1.5 million from a scratch

off my mom got me. Am I obligated to give her some of the winnings?

>> What is the lie? A

>> B. Okay. Well, actually B is the truth that uh Dave took that call in the early years. That is a true story. Bought an expensive monkey and the monkey beat the snot out of his fiance

and he still had to call Dave and talk to him about it. Uh, the actual lie is I won 1.5 million from a scratch off my mom got me and uh Rachel and I took the

infamous Taylor Swift ticket call.

>> Yes. And you uh shocked me on that one.

I remember >> you thought I was going to be a little fuddy. >> They were going to say, "Yeah, sell the tickets, get it to the debt, but you said go to the concert." And I thought, Ken, I am just influenced on you >> because I have a 16-year-old daughter and I put I was like, "This is where you got to live a little bit, you know?" >> That's great. >> Uh, okay. Uh, let's see here. A, this is

the caller speaking. Dave, you're stupid

and arrogant.

>> And that's just what Rachel said.

>> Yeah, >> that's not even >> to the car. >> Never say that. I am respectful.

>> B. Our beef jerky side hustle made our electric bill go up to $400 a month.

>> C. I financed my wife's breast implants

and then she cheated on me with my boss.

Which one is the lie?

>> I'm hearing a lot of bee. The actual lie is B. Our beef jerky side hustle. Dave

took the call for for the guy who

financed his wife's breast implants.

A poor guy. He was a double loser on

that deal.

through a call. Dave couldn't >> Didn't even get to use him. >> Yeah, >> Dave was beside himself losing. He couldn't get through the call.

>> I I I I don't know that I would have been sadder for a guy if I had taken that call. Terrible.

>> Uh okay. Um and then I was on the call

with Dave when the guy started the call.

Dave, you're stupid and arrogant. And I just was like this.

I I I don't know what was going to happen, but man, I think I replied to the guy, I've got a great book for you. It's called How to Win Friends and Influencers.

>> How about that? That's pretty fun. You guys are great. >> Yeah, y'all were great. >> Yeah, you guys knew it.

>> You knew it.

>> Yes, sir. I made my own little bonus question here. Um, you are kind of known for the crew infamous for having quite a bit of uh doozies that you don't even realize what you're saying. So, we have kind of like our own booth quote book for Ken. >> Oh, boy. >> We call them kenuendos. >> Inuendos.

They happen all the time and they're so >> Can I say before he reads these, I truly don't in the moment know that they come across the way that you're about to hear them.

>> So, the best ones I don't feel comfortable saying in front of an audience. >> That is I picked two and the third one is not Ken. So, so here's here's the Ken version. A head on over to your local hardwood dealer and make mama happy.

[Applause] All right. B, that's a whole different

process emotionally than drinking your mama's milk.

And C, he needs a good sip of grown-up

juice.

>> So, what's the what's the non-kin statement? >> C. >> James, tell them. >> So, the answer is B. But it was a real

statement said by Dave. So they were all real, just not by Ken.

>> And Rachel was Rachel was on with me when I made the hardwood dealer comment.

And I Does anybody in here remember that one? You all remember everything else? You remember that one? Oh, it's good to know you guys listen when Dave's not on.

That's great.

>> Uh just quick context, you remember this? Oh, yeah. young couple called and they had been saving up to renovate their house and been living in just, you know, a dump of a floor. They'd saved up. They had plenty of >> She wanted to do it. >> She wanted to finish their hardwoods on the first floor. And this guy was like, "My boy Jake over here

>> and you know, he was just he called us and he's just him and Hawing and Ken, should I do it? Rachel, should I do it?" And I finally said at the end, you know what? >> Go down. >> Tell your wife. Hang up. Tell her going out for dinner and then take her down to the hardwood dealer and make mama happy.

>> Except Ken, you said it a little more like this. Take mama down to the hardwood dealer and make mama happy. It was more like that. >> That is true.

>> A little bit more juiced up. >> That is true. And I look over and James and the entire crew. Uh they're dying laughing and I know that I've said something, but I don't know what I've said.

>> And so we go to the commercial break and these guys are amazing.

Twice a week. >> It's like ESPN playback slow motion.

This kind just caren off.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh we are going to now go to another question. Is that right? We got Ricky. Everybody welcome Ricky to the mic.

[Applause]

>> Hi.

I live up in Skoi which is one of the suburbs. Um and I brought one of your biggest fans with me, my daughter Ruthie.

I read your book. >> You read my book?

>> She's gonna be a future millionaire. I love it. >> She will.

>> That's fantastic. >> Um, so speaking of books, are there any books that you've read recently that you recommend um either lifestyle, relationship, financial, not yours, because we've read all of those. Um, particularly for people in baby steps four through seven.

>> Oh. >> Oh, that's good. um >> books that we've read lately >> that would help you in four >> uh I had I have two money ones that are not Ramsay but I loved them and they're bestsellers I feel like people have probably read them but um the psychology of money >> it's a great one okay so if you read that one and then die with zero have you read Die with Zero >> it's a great one I don't agree with everything in it but he does a really good job presenting the case of using your money while you're alive whether that is if you're instead of leaving a big inheritance give it to your kids when you when when you're alive and when they need it for like a down payment on a house all of this because his whole thing is if you die at 85 and all your grown kids are 60 65 they're fine.

So if you can use it throughout your life um which again we say at Ramsey that you know you should leave a legacy to your children's children all the things. So there's a balance in it, but I think he does a really good job of saying, "Hey, if you have done well financially and you do have the ability to spend it on experiences with people you love, if you're able to use it to help your family, if you're able to be generous, like instead of leaving it all to charity when you die, like be giving now more." Um, I love that mindset.

die with zero. It's a great one.

>> Real quick, uh, I would say The Pursuit of Happiness is the name of the book.

Uh, it's written by Jeffrey Rosen. And what he does is he goes back into our founding fathers. Obviously many of us know the phrase the pursuit of happiness from the first line of the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. But this book goes back and it examines who influenced the founding fathers to the point that they used that phrase and it goes back into the Stoics.

The reason I'm recommending this book for people in four, five, and six is because you've been gazelle intense. And so now you're in that stage of living like no one else. And this book does a fabulous job of explaining what that

phrase means. It's become an American phrase. Uh but the real heart of it is that the pursuit of happiness as the Stoics and then our founding fathers saw that phrase. It was not about gaining stuff.

It was about growing in your virtue. And I think that's a perfect book for people who are going now I can use my money in a very different way to live like no one else. And so the pursuit of happiness was a pursuit of getting more virtuous and thus you were happy. So I guess that's the one that I would recommend.

>> That's good. >> Beautifully said.

>> Yeah. Great book. >> I'm a guy who is very focused on the financial side, but my my if you look at it like a tire, I had a flat tire on the other sides, right? Like social relationships, physical health.

And so this book talks about yes financial but also all these other areas of life that if you don't have them under control your quality of life will suffer. And he talks about you know parenting and the different seasons of life and the amount of time you have with your kids. And it just helped me to look beyond just the money stuff as the nerd and go like oh I probably should work on these other areas now that I got the money stuff under control. So that's a great one regardless of where you're at.

>> Yeah, great question. Thank you everybody. Give her some love. Way to go.

All right, next is Ashley. Keep the applause going for Ashley. Where is she?

There we go.

>> There's a man following you. Be careful.

>> Yeah, that guy looks shady.

>> They They told me he could come up. >> Okay, great. Introduce yourself. Ashley and >> uh I'm Ashley.

>> Hey, Den Theater. My name's Jim.

>> Hey, Jim. >> Jim. >> That's Jim. >> Do you do voiceover work?

>> I have done that in a past life. long long time ago. >> Okay. Well, you haven't lost it, pal.

That's >> a side gig. >> Very exciting. Okay. What's your question, Ashley? >> Um, so we're in uh Baby Step four, five, and six, and we're just kind of like feeling kind of stagnant. Like, it's kind of boring. I mean, I'm happy that we're here, but um and we're able to invest the 15% um and we are saving for

college. Um, but we're just not finding

every single time we have any extra money, we can't put it towards our mortgage. It's like we have a plumbing issue or we need a new car, which was a

$5,000 car, just so you know. Um, you know, so it's just it's just been really difficult in this kind of phase because like we got out of debt really quick and we saved our emergency fund really quick and now we're just like, okay, let's move it. I I really want to pay off the house. Like I want to walk in the grass.

Like I >> Yeah. How many kids do you guys have?

>> We have two. We have How old are they?

>> Yeah. We have a 13-year-old uh son and we have a seven-year-old daughter.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> How long have you guys been in baby steps four, five, and six?

>> Year. >> About a year and a half. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Because I do think we have this picture of because the steps are so

succinct that everything is just going to go up like this and we're just going to keep going and going and going. It's going to be great. But the truth is life happens. You're in it a year on average.

I think our millionaire um from our millionaire study nine years I think is the average that they're paying off houses. >> I think it's seven for baby steppers, 10 for for millionaires in general.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah, seven's in your so you have just so give yourself another sixyear right runway meaning

within those six years your income's going to go up stages of life with kids is going to change like things of life are going to change and I really do believe if you are disciplined and your goal is to pay off the house early and you guys are looking and working the plan it's going to happen I really do believe that I think just give yourself a little bit of grace cuz life does this right like cars break refrigerators break things happen you know you got to buy plane tickets for a family to to go somewhere, you know, if there's a funeral, like whatever it is, things are going to be up and down.

And so, I would just say give yourself some patience. I think you really are going to get there. I really do. And I know it can feel frustrating right now, but um you will get there.

>> With the airplane analogy, it really is like when you're getting up to altitude, it's kind of exciting. There's like announcements happening. We're like, "Woo, we're taking off." And then you're 40,000 feet up. be like, "All right, 3 hours to go on this flight. I guess I'll watch it." And so it does get kind of boring. What helped us was tracking it.

Maybe make it visual if you want to do like rings for the mortgage and right now it's like, "Woo, 300 went to principal." Towards the end, you're really making progress. So, it does get faster and your incomes are going to go up. The kids will be out of the season where they're mega expensive and hopefully offer payroll eventually. So, just know that right now it might feel hard. I also would do a budget audit and go, why can't we make progress? You know, is the emergency fund good? Okay.

Why can't we cash flow these things in our budget? Do we need syncing funds for maintenance and repairs so that it doesn't feel like it's derailing this other goal? >> Yeah. Actually, I just wonder like we maybe we're putting away too much in our syncing funds. Maybe we have too many syncing funds, you know? That could be.

>> So, I think that that's something we should probably reevaluate. >> But we need them all the time >> cuz stuff comes up, right? Right. That's what you're saying. >> Well, just yesterday. >> Yeah. What happened yesterday?

>> We did need it yesterday. >> Tree roots blocking our sewage system.

Let's I'm I'm sure this I'm sure the Den Theater wants all the details. >> Yikes. >> Well, I imagine that Jim, when you saw that, you went, "Oh my, this is unfortunate." >> That's a great Jim impression.

>> Uh, >> this must end stat.

>> Yeah, Jim likes the microphone more than I do. And that's saying something.

>> That's saying something. I have a quick question because you said boredom. I I'm just wondering when was the last time you guys planned and saved up to do something fun. >> Yeah, I think that's also the situation.

We're taking a year off from like fun like like we because we've had a lot of fun. We did have a lot of fun after we paid off the debt >> and >> we just went on a Royal Caribbean cruise just a couple months ago. >> Oh, that's fun. So, we're we're trying not to take any vacations.

Got it. You answer it. Yeah. This year.

But >> yeah. Do you have a set goal every month for how much we want to put toward the mortgage? Can you tell us what that is on top of the normal payment? How much do you want to put toward principal?

>> I That's the thing. I I don't think we Yeah, we probably should be more specific. >> I would be very specific and go like, is it $500? Okay, we're going to do $500 before the other chaos happens in our life.

Like, make it a priority if it's a priority. Sure. >> And then track it. And you'll see the balance go down and go, can we do 600 this month?

Hey, we got a bonus coming up. Can we put that toward it? And as your income goes up, the amount will go up. the principal will start to sink down and you'll feel like you're making progress.

>> 155. >> Okay. When you go below that six figure mark, you're going to get a new pep in your step, a second wind if you will, in that marathon. So, just keep at it.

You're doing all the right things. >> Yeah, you guys are doing great. Congratulations for Thank you guys.

>> Thank you.

>> All right. Uh we're going to go to another question. We got Amanda's coming up to the mic. Give Amanda some love.

The ladies have shown up tonight and I have to say >> the guys no bravery. Pure cowardice. No guy. Come on. >> I think some of them come up.

>> Hello. >> Hi. Where are you from? >> Um I just recently moved to Milwaukee.

So um an hour and a half up north.

>> Nice. >> Nice. >> Um so my question is I was incredibly blessed with a 22-year career in the United States Air Force. I recently retired. >> Thank you for your service.

>> Thank you. >> You're a great American. >> Thank you. Um, and like a lot of veterans, my identity was completely wrapped up in the uniform. >> Yeah. >> So, my question is, how do I find meaningful work on my terms

um while I differentiate myself from my military career? >> Yeah, I love this question. Um, I'm going to go back to the whiteboard example that I used a minute ago. And so, we would look at your entire career in the Air Force >> and we would look at all the skills that you've acquired. And I think this is an exercise I'm going to challenge you to do. >> Okay. >> Uh tomorrow.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. And so one side of the paper, I want you to write down talent. And I want you to write down all the skills that you've acquired. And and and you know, like let it flow like I was really good at this. I learned this all that stuff. And it just creates the proper narrative. Then the second thing you're going to write down is all of the experience and describe the experience.

Right? So I had these talents and skills

but uh my experience was over here in crisis management or in you know whatever logistics >> just write it out. And so then you can look at both of those sides of the paper and go oh this is who I am regardless of

whether I was in the Air Force or not.

>> So that's the first thing. Second thing is to realize that a lot of employers

really respect people that come out of the military. It's the greatest organization in the world.

>> Amen. >> Come on. And uh so yeah, so

that's the narrative. Hey, I'm trained

and this is what I acquired and this is what I did. And then take that and now

go out there and look online and just see what's out there. You don't have to apply, but just see what's out there in the world. Because Chad GPT, by the way, is amazing. And I would literally take those things I had you write down and I would put it in chatbt and say, "Hey, describe for me potential paths outside

of the military." >> Mhm. >> With this skill set and this experience

blow your freaking mind. >> Yeah. >> All right. I'm sure. >> I'm also going to give you my Get Clear Career Assessment. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> And uh so Grayson right here, the handsome guy in the red hair, see him afterwards. He'll get your email. I want you to take the assessment and and I'm not going to describe it for lack of time. >> Sure. But it'll really dis create a I

think an ideal job description for you and it'll actually give you some AI suggestions. But that's the exercise because right now it's really hard for our men and women from the military. That's all they've ever known. So it feels so scary.

>> Am I nailing it? >> Transition has been difficult for sure.

>> Of course, but a lot of it is you're just terrified because of the unknown and you've only known one world.

>> Okay. And so uh here's what we know. If

you've ever driven in a car, Amanda, and it started to rain really, really hard.

So hard that you couldn't see.

>> What did you do?

>> Um, pulled over and waited for it to >> pulled over, slowed down, we stopped, right? And and we moved back onto the road when everything clears up. The lack of the unknown is one of the most paralyzing fears that we as humans face.

So the exercise I've given you is going to help you see, >> okay, what is out there. Now, once you

see what is out there and you match it all up with the exercise I gave you plus the assessment, now it's all about I'm going to tell everybody I know what I'm actually looking for. And I think you're going to find there are a lot of great Americans >> who want to help a great American.

>> Absolutely. >> And I really believe it's that simple.

Seeing leads to believing and believing

will lead to you getting the thing that you want to get and you're going to do great out there. I absolutely believe that. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you.

Uh, okay. Uh, oh, this is very exciting.

>> Do you know my This is very exciting.

You know, we we've never done like a really cool group debtree screen. And

>> we got a lot of debtree people in here. >> We got a lot. How How many debtree people? >> How many debtree people we have?

>> Oh, yeah. >> They're not excited about it, but they are debtree. >> They are. They're here. >> They are here. And uh so what we realized is is that we we we just had so many of you and so we said well let's do a group debtree scream. So um so we're

going to try to qualify you and see if we can do something fun here. Okay. Uh so who has become debtree in the last 12

months? Stand up if that's you. Stand up

tall. Don't sit down.

>> Oh yeah. We >> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

Okay, that's a good amount. So, George, you got your writing utensil? >> Yeah, I'm going to use uh >> Oh, you're going to use your phone. Now, here's what we're going to do. Stay standing. Stay standing. And if I miss you, because I can't completely see around me, I'm going to start to my right cuz I see some folks right here.

>> Add up how much how much debt has been paid off in the last 12 months in this room, right? And George has got his handy dandy calculator. So, yell it out loud and proud right here. This couple, how much? >> Round up. Uh, $280,000.

>> $280,000.

>> All right. Okay. Next.

>> 3500. >> Hold your applause. Hold your applause.

3500. Okay. Next.

>> 40,000. >> 40.

>> 75,000. You guys are going to have to help me if there's anybody else. Go around the room like the wave. What?

What's next? >> Uh, >> George, you got these numbers >> right here in the front. >> Right here. >> 48,000. >> 48,000. >> 48. >> Ma'am, right back here. I'm pointing at you. >> 5,000. >> 5,000. Okay. Up in the top.

>> 46. >> 46,000. This couple right back here.

>> 146,000. >> Oh, 126. And then >> 48,000. >> 48,000. George, you keeping up. Okay.

You, sir, in the hat. >> 4,000. >> 4,000. This couple right here.

>> 175. By the way, sit down once you give me your number. That That'll be 17

right here. >> 15,000 back here.

>> 42. >> 42. All right.

265,000.

>> 265,000.

Can I >> This is for fun. The total for just the year has been in this room.

>> Oh, I like this. Drum roll. Give like a

Joe drum roll.

>> In this room in the last 12 months, $1,172,000.

[Applause]

>> That's wrong.

>> I love it. How about that?

>> Oh my gosh. Okay, so for the debtree scream, I think everyone in the room who is debtree stands up. >> I I think is that what we're going to do? We're going to do a So, everybody who's debtree, stand up.

>> And that can be consumer debt, too. It doesn't have to be your house. >> It doesn't have to be your house or baby step seven. >> Oh my gosh. Look at all these debtree people.

>> Oh my gosh. >> I Here's what we're going to do. Rachel, >> I think you should be the one that counts them down. >> Do I count it down? >> Do a three, two, and one. Everybody count with Rachel. She's gonna take over and when she counts you down, we want to hear the loudest. >> No, I think I think they I think I catch you all up just like we do on the calls.

>> All right, go for it. Count it down. We're going to count it down. Let's do a free screen. There's your and then you all say three, two, one.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Uh live from the den in Chicago making anywhere from zero to >> $250,000.

Oh, we have an entire group of people that have paid off $1 almost $1.2

million in this room. So, you guys count it down for your big debt-free scream. 3

2 1.

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

>> Heck yeah.

>> You guys so fantastic. We applaud you.

>> Incredible.

>> We don't want to just applaud you because you know what we do, George? What do we do on the show when when we have a debt free little parting gift? So on the stage if someone does the debtree scream live from Ramsay headquarters then it goes to a break after the Braveheart plays then we sneak out. We go to the lobby. That's right.

>> And we yell, celebrate everyone that watch the show in the lobby. We hug. We take pictures. We give some stuff away.

>> That's right. And one of the things we give away is one year of every dollar premium. So we thought it'd be fun for anyone who did their debtree scream to get a year of every dollar premium. How does that sound?

Now, we know there's a lot of people who are in Baby Step 2. They're in the thick of it. They're trying to make it through and they're going, "That feels I shouldn't. I feel like I need it." So, Ken, what do you Can we do some outrageous generosity, too? >> We're going to do something crazy and borrow a page from maybe the one of the greatest television givers of all time.

It's our Oprah moment because if you stand up and turn your chairs upside down, everybody gets every dollar

tonight. Yeah.

You get in every dollar and you get in every dollar and you get in every dollar. This is so up.

>> There it is. This is the >> There it is. >> How about that? And can I add this is not this is not your grandma's Every Dollar.

If you guys didn't know, we just released an allnew version of Every Dollar. And it's way more than just a budgeting app. And Rachel and I with Jay did this premiere explaining it all. So give them the spark notes of what's now included.

>> Yes. So every dollar again, not just a budgeting app anymore, ladies and gentlemen. It's over your entire financial picture. So it's it's coaching, it's group calls, uh it's your budget still.

So it is a much bigger version. It's the allnew Every Dollar. We're so excited for you guys to experience. You guys, we are so excited about tonight. You guys have been >> Yes. Thank you guys so much for coming.

Chicago. We want to say on behalf of everybody back in Nashville, Tennessee, from Ramsey Solutions, for our entire crew, the cameramen, uh, everybody that

works so hard to bring financial peace to people, uh, our entire team, we're so proud to be associated with you. You are the ones that did the work. You guys are making a difference. You've got financial peace and you have changed your family tree. So, we still believe in you. We're never going to stop believing in you. So proud to serve you tonight and just on behalf of Rachel and George, entire team, thank you all for being here. Good night. >> Thank you.

>> Thank you guys.

[Music] [Applause]

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## 227. The Ramsey Show Live from Orlando


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What's up?

Normal is broke and common sense [cheering] is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, LIVE IN THE BEACH in Orlando. This is the Ramsay Show.

[cheering] Now we're talking. That's what I imagine everyone does at home when they're listening to the show in their car. Oh, this is so fun. Thank you for being a part of this.

We got a lot of people uh watching this at home and we're just grateful to be out of the house. I got a newborn and let me tell you, I was like, "Babe, I got to go to work. I don't know what to tell you. The people need me." Well, let's get to what you guys came here for.

This is the Ramsay Show Live and we are going to take your questions.

>> Ah, yeah. >> There she is. Step right up. We have a little stage for you. [applause] Tell us your first name and where you're from. >> Hello, everyone. Uh, my name's Michelle.

And, um, my husband and I have been married for five years. And debt is

something that we have tried our best to

tackle time and time again. And every time it feels we've taken two steps forward, it feels like we take three steps back. Um, tomorrow I'm actually going to be laid off from work.

>> Sorry. >> No, you're good. Take your time.

>> And it feels very scary. We have a two

and a half yearear-old daughter [snorts] who is special needs and um

she does various therapies and we have a

lot going on with her, right? Um

I was the full-timer to be available for

her. [laughter] Um my husband is part-time right now. We also have a small business that we are still growing, but it's not enough yet to pay

us full-time. Um, so I think there's

just so much going on. So, um, I'm just

kind of like, what do we do? What do we focus on first? Because we don't know how long it'll take for me to either get another job or for our business to really take off or anything like that.

Like, what would you focus on first?

>> Four walls.

And you've probably heard us say that, but it it gives so much peace to say first things the most important things are shelter, right? That's that's your rent or your mortgage. Making sure that's the top thing, right? And then after that, we're just going through the line of priority. Yeah. You got to make sure the utilities are stay on, right?

You need a AC, right? All that kind of stuff. You need to make sure there's food and cabinet and you need to make sure there's transportation. Those are the first ones. And then after that, there might be other priorities. Maybe there's daycare. Maybe there's insurance payments, right? But you can prioritize those down the list. But when you do that, it kind of puts a stop on everything else. And it's okay to do that. It's okay to tell the other stuff, let's talk to the hand like I don't have it right now. And they'll be strong.

They will be fine. I I I have been where

you're at right now. And it feels intimidating to know that you know your money, but you also have the power to say not right now. And and and that's okay. You got this is this is a season and you'll come out of it.

But really just dialing in and saying, "Okay, with the money that we do have coming in, how far does that get us?" And sitting down tonight or, you know, first thing in the morning and saying, "The money that we have coming in from the small business, from your husband's work, how far does that get us as far as what our actual needs are in the budget and what's that gap, right? And putting real numbers around this so it doesn't feel like just this cloud of uncertainty, right, floating over your head.

gap? How can we fill that $1,200 gap, right?" But at least you know exactly what the gap will be. And not only will you know the dollar amount, but you'll know and that $1,200 gap is these, you

know, six items or these five items. And that's going to give you peace as well.

>> Yes. Thank you. It's also okay to pause

trying to get a business off the ground.

It might be husband looking AC. This might be the moment that you say this can't never happen to us again, right?

This might be the moment that cat like that catapult y'all into taking control of your financial life, but it might be like I love what Jade said about it's real easy to get into um dream job or

career or small business. Those are all real big passiony things, feeling things. Y'all have a really serious emergency math problem. And so tomorrow

he becomes a guy with four part-time jobs because he has a math problem to solve. Not a career, not a passion, not we have a math problem we have to solve, right? And we're going to knock on every door we can find because we have a math problem, right? And it takes some of the some of the smoke out of it and we just start putting out out that fire. You got a good community around you. People you can lean on. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> It's awesome. >> Please don't be afraid to ask for help.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My wife went to the ER today. I'm out of town.

I'm like scrambling and next thing I know there's 17 people texting me, showing up, bringing meals, watching the baby. And so just know that like I know you feel like weird asking for it and there's shame and you just want to be alone, but now is the time to lean on your people and they will show up for you. We're we're praying for you to get that job real soon. >> Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Pray for that baby. Thank you so much, Michelle.

>> All right. Something we like to do in the show, Jade and John, is we like to help couples out by settling the debate.

>> People call and say, "Can you settle this debate? I think I'm right. Prove me right." And usually the person calling in is wrong.

>> Most of the time, >> they're trying to justify and go, "Jade, you're on my side, right?" And you're like, "Actually, [laughter] so we thought it'd be fun to do this live, which is a little scarier. So, do we have a Dawn in the crowd? Are they here tonight? >> Please tell me that one of them doesn't know this is happening.

>> Come on up. Give it up for him. That's nerve-wracking. [cheering]

>> Welcome, guys. Okay. What's the debate in your house? >> So, my name's Tom. I'm a to save aolic

and >> light. I haven't heard that term. Save a holic. >> It's my wife doing. >> I'm a I'm a give a holic. I'm a pleaser

>> and nobody's spending money in this house. >> It's just we're saving, we're giving. We're the nicest people on earth. >> That's not true. But we uh we're baby step seven for about a year and um you

know I make low six figures and we we do we do okay. But I she likes to give to

our kids. Um you know, >> we're a blended family.

>> Um he had three children, I had three children. Um, we've been together 10

years. It's been a 10-year process of blending and coming together. And our

family trips and our family time has

really that that's how I measure our wealth.

Right. I think it's more about with me like we do these trips, we spend5 to$10,000 and um they've been great trips, but every single time for me it's like oh it's like every you know whether we want to go spend a few hundred bucks for supper with all the kids. It's like she's like let's do this and I'm like I'm always glad after but it always is like every time. [laughter] So that's the debate like I need to figure out how to be okay with spending.

You know what I mean? It's like a me and money don't h >> how do we budget it? I think that's our biggest problem.

>> I mean now where is step 8 n and 10

>> that's when you get back to Dave I'll send you his Venmo.

>> There's no struggle here. It's not like it's you're not going to be able to retire because of this. It's just more that Tom is feeling like we should be doing more over here. we could be doing more over here and we're just spending willy-nilly on the family funding this

fun life. Is that kind of it? What's behind that, Tom?

>> It really It took it took a long time between the two of us to get, you know, I've been with the same company for 38 years working my ass off and it's just

like we're here now and it's like I want to just keep saving and make sure that there's enough and but I know there's going >> that there is enough. >> Yeah. My [laughter] my guess is you guys are probably multi-millionaires by now, Tom. Is that right?

>> There is enough. >> Okay. So, on paper, if you sat down with a financial adviser, would they be like, "Yeah, you could retire, bud." >> Yes, they have. >> And they've said it.

Yeah. >> They've said it out loud. >> Yeah. Well, my my brother-in-law is a financial adviser.

And he's like, "Yeah, you know, by the time you're 75, he said you'll have >> Say it. >> But but we >> Is it like $25 million or something stupid?" Okay.

Hold hold hold it down. We We want to just >> We want to We want to make them a priority while we're alive. We want to live and give while we're alive. We want to see the difference made while we're alive. >> Can I throw an alternative? >> Yes. >> Is there a chance? It's very common thing when there's blended families.

That means that somewhere along the trajectory, the forever plan changed and

there's hurt and there's fear and there's I want to make sure everybody's okay. And one of the ways I can make sure everybody's okay is to clear the deck of any possible challenge. And if

you marry somebody and y'all together, y'all now have resources that maybe you've never had, I want to begin to buy

laughter and joy. And it's not a bad impulse, but in a weird way, I end up using that money and those experiences to make

me feel less guilty, less sad, less

painful for the the memories I had when they were little, right? When they were asking those hard hard questions like where's this and why do we have to live?

Those kind of things. >> And so it's it's almost a both end, which is practicing. I hate to use that word because it's like we we turn these into moral issues and character issues.

I think it's a practice and and I I made

a joke earlier. I think this is where a budget can really help. Like >> your spiritual exercise, man, is I'm going to budget fun money.

>> I'm going to practice exhaling and saying, "Thank you, God.

Thank you, hard work. And I'm going to budget joy." And you begin to practice.

I'm going to begin to look in the mirror and say, "I'm a good mom. I've done a

good job." And I'm worth being loved

just at a table with a bunch of delivered pizzas, not at some five the

fivestar. Those are awesome, but also you're worth being loved. And your kids and their kids and their kids will have tons of fun. They'll have they'll tell the story at your funeral about the time you ran out in the backyard and sprayed them all with the hose. not the seventh vacation that y'all spent $20,000 on.

>> And so it's both of y'all practicing.

We've done good. Let's practice this next layer. And y'all get to ask yourselves that question. What do you want this to look like? You've worked real hard. >> I just made me think of this quote. You can't spend your way into a meaningful life. And I'll flip it for Tom. You can't save your way to a wealthy life.

It just goes so far beyond that. And so I think you both have some homework to do. And so for that reason, I think the judge is going to preside and say this is this is 50/50 right here. It is >> both guilty is charged. Congratulations.

Welcome to marriage where nobody wins.

>> Thank you. Thank [cheering] you.

>> Great question, guys. Thank you for trusting us. >> Great question. [applause] >> Can I petition to be one of the kids? I mean, you already got six. What's seven? I mean, add me to the vacation.

>> You all have to understand, though, that when George Camel tells you, "Y'all should spend some money." >> That's something. >> Yeah.

Well, what we found, John, there's a great book for you, Tom, by the way. It's called Die with Zero. This is a true book.

>> What' you think of it? >> Excellent. >> Excellent book. Okay. The premise is that you don't need to leave $5 million to your kids when they're in their 60s.

Use the money now to have these experiences. That's what's going to create more meaning than just like, "Oh, cool. I inherited $5 million when I didn't really need it." Set your kids up now in their adult life when it matters more. >> That's good. >> So, it's a it's a decent principles in there for for guys like Tom. Love it.

Uh, let's let's help the people. Can we do that? We have another live question coming up. We get that lined up. Give it up for them, whoever they are. Oh, this is fun. She's running down because >> Right. >> Why is that our only reference to someone running down in a game? Great.

>> All right. Tell us your name and where you're from. >> I am Caroline Goens and I am from Winter Garden, Florida. >> Lovely.

>> So, here's a little bit and then I'll tell you my question. So, my dad has recently decided to spend time with me after not being there for most of my early childhood and up to now. I feel

like I should spend time with him because it's the right thing to do, but part of me feels like why now? Where

should I keep my boundaries?

>> Good question. >> Tell me about the word should. Who gave you that story?

>> He kind of did, I feel like.

>> Okay. So, when somebody opts out of our

lives and they knock on the door to come back in, I always want to ask myself,

what do I want my house to feel like?

>> And is my body like literally not

sounding like woo woo, but like is it excited to open that door or is it scared to open that door? And if it's scared to open that door, I often, this is me personally, up in my bag, up in the room back here, I have a journal that I keep with me and it's just a stories journal. When I start telling myself stories, it's all coming down. I need to do this.

I should have done this. I'll write it down and I just ask myself, is this true? Am I scared because he might hurt me again? Do I not want to see him because he hasn't changed?

still a seven-year-old in the driveway watching him drive off wondering what did I do dad like what was so bad about me and asking yourself those questions and then those usually frame your boundaries which you can open the door and say I'm not ready yet or I can open the door and say I need you to know

I still haven't figured out why you left and I I want to have that conversation before you come back or if you come back

and you've been drinking, you have to go. Or you can't come in this door, but I'll meet you at another place for a while. Or thank you for the invitation, but not yet. Right? But it's it's often

when especially with our parents when they do something when we were kids, right? They leave, they were in a

different fa whatever. Um when they

call, my dad can call me and I go back

to being nine like that, right? and I

got a good dad. Like my dad's still around, right? And so it's remembering

I'm not in the backseat of his car anymore. I'm in the front seat of mine.

And that transition can be hard, but it's just spending a little bit of time with yourself. And sometimes a great

text message back or an email back is,

I'll be in touch in 24 hours. And that's a tiny way that you can reclaim autonomy. I'll answer you tomorrow or answer you later. And that'll give me some space. I don't feel like I have to jump back in. But often, I don't know about you, I I go right back to people

pleasing. It's all going to be okay or fear or whatever those things are, right? Why'd he go?

>> He cheated >> on my mom. >> Did she send him away or did he leave?

>> He left >> out of shame and guilt or he wanted to start a new family with someone else?

>> Maybe both. I'm not sure.

>> Maybe that's the question to start with.

>> Yeah, that's a scary hard one. How much of you wants to reconnect and reconcile and how much of you is like not interested at all? >> I think my heart wants to, but my brain's like, whoa, hold on. [laughter]

So, I think it's more of like I have I

feel like I have a very open heart where my my brain is like the logical like

I want to put some boundaries there or something there. >> Yeah. And probably both are true.

>> And both will lie to you also, right?

Yes. >> How old are you now? >> 28. >> Do you have a dream of 35-year-old you having him over for dinner? >> I do. >> That's usually a cool place to start.

And slowly reverse engineering it back to Okay. What must be true tomorrow for that 35 that seven years from now dream to come true. Do you have kids?

>> Not yet. >> Not yet. Okay. Do you have a dream of him holding one of your babies one day?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And by the way, that wasn't fair.

That was a hard question I just asked you. And the fact that you answered it quickly like that is awesome. I would listen to that voice.

>> I don't think it's all or nothing. I think it's just like John said, just taking that one little step. Let's test the temperature in the water here. Okay, we'll take one step in uh instead of just rushing in or blocking forever.

I think we just need to stair step into it as you feel comfortable and and hopefully that trust and healing starts to happen. >> And remember this always, you're in the driver's seat of the car. You get to choose what happens next.

happens next. It's awesome. I'm proud of you, dude. That's cool. >> Thank you. >> Awesome. Thank you for the question, Caroline. [applause] >> All right, we're on the road. We can't travel with the whole crew, but we had to bring arguably the most important person uh to the show who's behind the scenes, and that is producer James.

Would you guys like to meet him? [cheering] >> Come on out, James. There he is.

This is fun, >> guys. [cheering] >> I feel like you need your own music when you come on. >> I should have thought about that. >> Yeah.

What would it be? >> I am glad that John and I wore the same outfit. >> Yeah. I got I got I got James texted me and he's like, "Hey, bro.

>> Yeah. So, you know, obviously most of the questions tonight are from you guys about your situations, but we also got a bunch of fun questions that are more for y'all to get a little bit of a peak behind the curtain. Kind of dangerous, but there's some fun questions in here.

So, we've got maybe 10 or 12. So, maybe we can do like five or six of them now and then we can do some more later.

>> Yeah. But I think this would be fun. >> If they're okay with it, it's their show. >> That's true. >> Okay, let's do it. >> All right, let's do it. >> Thank you. This is the biggest fishbowl I've ever seen. Okay, here we go.

>> Jade can do. Okay. Oh, wow. God, this lady like I was scared of her. Let Jay do it. >> You better listen to her. >> I was going to pass it down. >> I was going to say, do you want me to just get the card out and hand it to him or >> No, you read it. The patriarchy's dead.

Jade, read it.

>> All right.

>> She wants you to sing it.

>> Describe your co-host in three words.

>> Oh, that was fun. [cheering] I actually really enjoyed that. That was more like a jingle. [laughter] >> Describe your co-host in three words.

Sorry. You never should have done that. >> It doesn't have to be like consecutive. I know. I know. Okay. Different words is fine. >> Yeah. It doesn't say consecutive. It says describe your co-host in three words. >> Okay. And just top of mind. Don't think about it too long. John, go. >> John, >> what do you think of me?

[cheering] >> Three words. >> Intentional.

[laughter] >> OCD.

>> I'll allow it. >> Great friend. A >> that was four words. So you say you lost the game, but [laughter] that was very kind. >> Hyphen very short.

>> All right, Jade. >> Wait, John has to describe me.

>> Oh. >> Ah, >> okay. I thought we're going to be all about me first. >> Oh. Oh, wait. You want to do it that way? >> No. No. It's fine. >> Let's ask her. What do you think?

[cheering] >> She'll allow it. Um, >> describing Jade. This is one word.

>> Do I need to come up with another truth teller? Okay.

Lots of hyphens. The most talented person I know.

Incredibly beautiful.

>> A my dog. So nice. Okay, George. First,

I've said this before, I'll say it again. Uh, intellectual.

Um, I will go with funny and

conscientious.

>> Wow, thank you. That's so kind.

>> Yeah, George is an extremely hard worker. Um, anybody who knows him knows that he puts a lot of effort into everything he's doing. >> Oh, I just called that OCD, but yeah, you can see that. >> Thank you.

>> Okay, John. I'm going to go with um genuine. I wanted to say fun, but that sounds so just like trite. I'm like, you're way more than fun. You're like jovial. There we go. How about that? And I'm trying to think of a word that describes how uh smart you are without just saying smart.

>> I was going to say academic. >> Academic, but yeah, that doesn't have any cache. Like you've got like >> I was going to say like soant brilliant

prodigy.

>> Take one of those. You put your jness on everything and I like that.

>> That's good. Okay, Jade. I will go I'll go quick.

Fierce.

>> Yeah. Poised.

>> Never do that again, Jade. Okay.

>> Infectious.

>> There we go. [laughter] John, I'm going to go tardy.

>> You know, John, to know John is to know John is tardy. Um, [laughter]

generous >> indeed. >> Hilarious.

>> I'll take it. That's it.

>> That's all I got. >> I agree. >> I'm going to do one. Don't be mad at me.

We'll pass it around. spread. >> Okay, but you have to sing this one. You have to come up with the jingle. >> This is so long. [cheering] >> Get it. Get >> I'm not going to listen. The people, they didn't pay to hear me sing.

[cheering] >> That would cost way more. You can stream my album on Spotify. And I wish that was a joke. [laughter] Uh, if you had to pick one restaurant to spend all your eating out budget on, where would you go? >> Something Italian, right?

>> Why you looking at me? Life. [laughter] I'm not going out to eat with you.

>> Oh, that's true. >> Publix.

>> Publix.

It said a restaurant.

>> I mean, we all love a pub sub, but [laughter] relax.

>> A pub sub? >> Yeah.

[cheering] >> You've never heard of a pub sub?

>> I can't tell if you're elitist or too poor to shop at Publix, John.

>> Man, >> at the deli at Publix, you can order sandwiches and they call them Pub Sub. Sub sub. >> Famously, there's one that is technically human food. It's just chicken tenders. >> Chicken tenders >> inside of a sub. >> That's the one.

>> And this is why America is the way it is. Even I know that.

>> I'm always going to have a job. Always.

[clears throat] >> All right. >> What is the restaurant? >> Where would John eat? I've never seen John eat. >> Yeah. What's your favorite even like kind of food? >> Without question. like um a

lowfi shack that does seafood right by the water. >> Ooh. >> Like of any kind. Like any animal that just came from the water and then we're going to eat it. That's That's my favorite. >> Or straight up like OG San Antonio

Mexican food.

>> That's a good answer. [applause]

>> Italian. Hit me with uh some kind of pasta, some kind of pizza sauce.

>> Dude, you you just saying those words gives George's special gluten-free tummy. >> I know. I know.

>> Gosh. >> What about you? >> Uh I'm, you know, of Middle Eastern descent and that's the food of my people. And so I got this is not technically accurate, but I'm going with like a taziki cava type. Like I could just eat that allian. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> There you go. >> All right. Down to John. We got We'll do one more here cuz John takes forever.

>> Which personality would you trust the least with your debit card? It's me.

It's me.

>> I mean, clearly >> you trust yourself the least. >> You would have more money in your account when I'm done with it.

>> That's actually fair. That's probably [laughter] true.

>> Which personality would you trust the least with your debit card?

>> I don't know why I want to say Rachel.

>> Oh, we didn't include Rachel. That's true. I I mean we can include She's not here, but we can include her, right?

>> Yeah, but she's buying like earrings on Amazon. John's buying like guitars and >> That's also true. That's a good point. >> No, but hold on. Rachel posts the Amazon purchases. Y'all don't see her drive up in the $400,000 car and the bags made of

a live alligator, like whatever. Like, so I'm still going, John. I'm picturing John like finding my debit card like, dude, we're gonna have some fun. [laughter] You know what I mean? Or Rachel like, we need to return this to George. She's probably worried about it, you know. >> That's true, Rachel. That's right.

>> If I found your debit card, there's a 100% chance I would buy some of the most gonzo things and have them shipped to your house. >> That's true. I trust me the least with >> Why am I getting boxes of diarrhea medication? Why? I did not.

>> Oh gosh. >> Can you see Whitney being like, "George, there is a pallet of hemorrhoid cream out here.

Are you okay? [laughter] So

there's I'm Y'all just I'm going to do that. That was fun. We had a good time. Hope you guys did, too.

We're going to do uh an anonymous question now. Uh one of you in the room submitted this, but you wanted to uh you know, not put your name on it. And we actually had two that are really similar. So, this is this is one of the questions that hits it hard.

I have been married for going on a decade and we're on baby step one. I love my husband, but he is not engaged in our finances.

our finances aren't combined and we aren't working together on a team to pay off our debt. I don't want to give up hope and pursue a divorce, but I'm so tired of always pushing him.

>> I mean, my first question would be, have you had any form of counseling? Like, have you sat down with a counselor at any point to discuss this with a third

party? Right. That'd be my first question. >> Yeah. What I found um that was unique to like coming from the world I came from to this to the Ramsay world is a lot of people watch the Ramsay stuff and they get inspired by the plan.

>> Mhm. >> And one of two things is true. They are

have always been a plan person. Like they used they brought home a bunch of Avon one time and now they like heard

that essential oils can cure liver cancer. So now they got a bunch of like it's always another plan and their partner just checks out >> like another scheme. >> It's another scheme. Um or they come at

somebody with a spreadsheet like here's the numbers and here's the debt. And we always find ourselves challenging people on air with that question beneath that which or that conversation beneath that which is sitting down with your spouse and saying I don't feel safe in my house. I can't breathe in my own house and I need you to help like participate

in helping me feel safe. And if your spouse says I'm out on that, that's a question. Like that to me is the question beneath the question. And if a spouse says I'm not participating, >> then that then you're going to end up in one office or another, either a divorce office or in a therapist's office.

But you you're going to have to involve professionals because that's somebody that's completely unplugged. Most of the time when somebody says, "I don't feel safe on my own house." Their spouse is like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't get it right." That was me.

My wife was so like, "I'm just an out of control person." But it was when she said like when I said, "I feel like you're creating a life without me." And she said, "I have to." That sentence I

have to was like, "Oh, like I'm so

erratic. I don't keep a budget. I don't I don't have any sort of stability." She's having to carve stability out of nothing because I'm I'm So that was the line that's like I got to go get help for me so that I can be more stable in my own house. >> All right, I'm going to play devil's advocate on this. This is a real conversation. You guys can handle it. So

the truth is yes to all of that. And the

truth is I because I I I'm talking from a a personal experience of a a best friend of mine. The truth also is you can have a spouse who you've said those things to and say, "Well, what makes me feel safe is being able to spend money on these things.

the truth is you can't make anybody change, right? You just can't make you could tell them everything in the book.

And she was like, "Jade, what do I do?" And I'm a firm believer. I'm like, "There's always something you can do to better your situation and you can't make this person change." And I told her, I was like, "Listen, if I were in your shoes, I would keep having the conversation, but I would do what I'm going to do, and I would share. I would share what I'm going to do. I would do it, and then I would share again." And so, for the next decade, she did that.

>> And she paid off $90,000 of debt uh

without her husband's true help. he was around, but he wasn't really helping.

And when the last $10,000 was to be paid, uh, they went to some conference and somebody mentioned the Ramsay plan over the stage and the light clicked on for him and for the last $10,000 he

helped and was on board. And so there's

part of this where there's you shouldn't be rendered completely helpless, right?

>> You still have to go do the next right thing. >> You still have to go do the right the next right thing. So, I would hate for somebody to feel like, well, they said, you know, we have to do it together. You do.

That is the best possible way to do this plan together, aligned on one accord, but at the same time, it could take a decade, right? It could take whatever your marriage situation is. And just because somebody doesn't want to do the Ramsey plan, you're not necessarily going to divorce them, right? And move on and go do your own money.

So, what can you do in the meantime? And I think that's the question that people really want to know is if this takes five years, am I rendered helpless for five years? No, you're not. Share, do you share?

And then the hope is that they get on board and in the meantime, you're in counseling.

>> That's a good line. On my show especially, I always ask when somebody says this or that, one of my first questions is always, "Are you going to leave them?" >> Right? >> And if they they're instant, no, it's okay. then you've made you've made that choice and so then what are you going to do inside that inside that choice you've made?

>> But if I ask that question, are you going to leave him? And there's that long pause, >> right? >> That tells me there's a deeper issue. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I found that there's such a wide spectrum for this question of basically how do I get my spouse on board? You've been married a decade and they've made it clear they're not going to opt into this. You kind of have your answer.

Did you just hear about the Ramsey plan or you're just excited and they don't get the vision yet? That's one thing versus someone who's actively dragging you down as you're trying to get out of debt cuz they're going further into it.

>> So, it's so personal to your situation,

but at the crux of this is a couple who has marriage issues for a decade and money is just the symptom.

>> And so, that's the hard part when we say, "Well, this is a marriage problem, not a money problem." We mean it.

Because until you get the marriage under control and they respect that person and what their dream and vision is and what their feelings are, then they're not going to change. Why would you?

>> That's true. >> So, that's a tough one. Uh, whoever submitted that, I appreciate that. I know that >> there are probably dozens more couples in here who have been there or maybe are sitting in this season right now.

>> All right, let's get to another live question. Tell us your first name and where you're from. >> My name is Serena and I'm from St.

Augustine. >> All right. What's your question?

>> What are some tips to stay focused on pushing through baby step two? I'm finding it difficult to get out of the yolo mindset when I'm confronted with the tomorrow isn't guaranteed internal voice.

>> So good.

>> That is good. >> So like a yolo thing would be like you're in baby step 2 and you buy

tickets to come to a club and watch the Ramsy show. >> Yes, precisely. So all cash paid. Um but

instead of you know sticking with baby step two and you think okay I really should save for this over here and pay this off but you know >> I really want to I have the opportunity so this is what I want to do and it's hard to stay focused >> on the right thing.

>> How long is this journey for you? Like what are we looking at? Is this seven years or is it one?

>> So I started with you guys. Uh, I say

you guys, I started listing to Dave Ramsey in 2021.

So, we are four years in.

>> Mhm. >> And still in the same spot.

>> How, like what percentage are you done?

Cuz you haven't moved. You're saying we haven't made progress in four years.

>> Little progress. Little progress.

>> I mean, I can tell you from my perspective. So, for Sam and I, it took seven and a half years to pay off our debt. And I think for us the mindset had

to shift from uh there's more ways to

enjoy life and there's more ways to get the most out of life. And generally that has to do with the people that you're around and the relationships that you're investing in. Um more so like don't get me wrong, experiences are a way to enjoy life. Going on a trip is a way to enjoy life.

But at the end of the day, I'm still coming home to Sam Warshaw, whether we went to Paris or we sat at home and made a pizza and it was delicious and we watched Sister Act, right? Um either way, that's a really great experience and there's ways to create memories and there's ways to truly enjoy and get the most out of life.

So, I think it really is a mindset shift that you're going to have to make. And it sounds like you spent four years not

seeing, you know, it's like you're doing all this toil but no traction. And I think that's probably what's got you feeling some type of way more so than the the yolo part of it. Right.

>> Right. >> What's a thing you've tried in the past that you've been really successful at

>> as far as >> athletics, academics? Like give me a give me an example.

>> Well, both. >> I'm seeing athletics. I'm looking at your guns [laughter] right now. And listen, gun show.

>> Don't embarrass me. Don't embarrass me.

Um, yeah. So, a healthy lifestyle definitely. >> What does a healthy lifestyle get you?

>> No pain in my bones.

The ability to um live life and not have

to depend on other people. So, h how

does it translate to I'm going to take autonomy and ownership of my body, my health, but I want to depend on a bank and a car dealership. >> That is true. That is true.

>> What is it about this journey that's that's harder than this one?

>> They both seem rooted in freedom,

autonomy. I think it's the being independent, being single, being responsible for

yourself. When you think, okay, I'm

going to take all of this extra and and pay it on this debt, then it takes it out. And I've heard this before, too, but it takes it away from being available for groceries, for because I depend on myself for all of those things. Mh.

>> Um, so it's it is that shift of using

the cash that you have to

pay off the debt, but then you may not have what you need for your necessities.

>> Oh, >> so budget oriented. >> That's a budget question that Yeah. I I love that you framed it up that way because I feel like now we're getting to the nitty-gritty. If we're budgeting properly, you're doing the other things out of um >> excess, right?

So, if you if you're starting with those four walls and you're like, "Hey, when I get paid, I know I'm paying for my rent. I know I'm paying for my utilities, my transportation, my food, and then on down that list of priorities, right?" And then if there's money left, okay, now I can do, yeah, now I'm going to go to the movies. I'm going to go, you know, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turt Turtles came out. I'm going to go see that, you know, and now you're able to do those things and actually feel a level of peace about it.

or you're able to say, I'm gonna take this extra money and I'm gonna throw it at this extra debt and I know I budgeted to do that and it's written on paper and I've done the math and I can feel good about that.

And I just want to hit this because I think it's worth noting and John was getting at this too. Um, I feel like your fear your fear is based on what if I don't do these things I want to do?

What if I what if I you know live my life and I don't you know take that trip or do but there's also a fear that should be considered of what if I don't do this plan what happens when I wake up at 50 and I still have the same debt only now it's higher because the interest you know stacked up. So allow yourself to play that out on both sides and I think that's going to inform what really matters to you and what truly the greater fear is. >> Um are you lonely?

>> I am single. I do have a German Shepherd dog. >> So, outstanding reflection. Are you

>> It is, isn't it? It's great. It's so great. >> You don't have to answer that. I spot there. It's a hard question. >> It's okay. It is a hard question. >> There is a depth to I want to hold on for this just in case. This just in case. What if they call? What if there's

an opportunity and spending or another

workout or another protein powder or I have a supplements not a not a cabinet I've got a supplement like clock like it's embarrassing right >> but that can all serve as a Xanax to

and so I wonder if you became with the same intentionality you are about fitness about taking care of yourself if you were that intentional about I'm going to put myself in positions where I'm going to meet other people and I can become a driver relationally and that will free up this what if what if I'm going to take the what if off the table and I'm going to start inviting people over. I'm going to get weird and awkward and ask people from work to come over.

at the root of that which is I need to hang on to some I'm not going to pay off this debt. I'm gonna try to get as much fun as as I can out of each moment because kind of all I've got and I've got to make manufacture my own fund through spending, through cars, whatever. >> Well, and you and with even the world that we live in right now, it's so hard to know, am I going to be here tomorrow?

>> Yeah. So, it's like if I have the opportunity to go on trips with, you know, with friends and and do all of these things, it's it's hard to say no to that to sitting at home and let me, you know, add this extra to this debt because I may not be here tomorrow. >> I think at the root of this, there's this like FOMO versus Jo, which is the joy of missing out. And when you're very clear in your goals, you're not like, "Oh man, I could have eaten seven pizzas tonight." Instead, you're like, "Man, I'm glad I took care of myself tonight.

I'm going to feel so good tomorrow." And so, to John's point, the chances of you dying tomorrow, slim to none. The chances of you staying the same in this sort of like mediocrity, not making financial progress, there's a high chance of that cuz that's how most of America lives. >> And so, you you've got to kind of choose your hard here and you're going to have to say no to the big trips.

And knowing that two years from now, it's going to look very different. And you get to define that later on, too, if you have that delayed gratification now.

So, beautiful question. Thanks for being Can I [laughter] Can I I got to flip this on its head for one second. And >> I'm nervous. >> Listen, I'm just going to go for it. Can I just state the obvious because here's here's what I'm thinking. >> The truth is, if you die tomorrow, you're going to be in heaven eating a sandwich. You're not going to be thinking, [laughter] "Oh my gosh, I DIDN'T CLIMB THAT MOUNTAIN WHEN I WAS ON EARTH." You're going to be in heaven like living it up.

>> Be meeting Jesus. You know what I'm saying? Like if anything, the other folks are going to be like, "Oh man, we miss her." Do you see what I'm saying?

Like you're thinking you're you're thinking that when you get to heaven, you're going to be thinking about all the things you missed out on earth.

That's not what's going to be happening.

And I think that's really worth you taking some time and thinking about this. This is not the home, right?

>> You know what I'm saying? Like this is the temporary. >> Yeah, for sure.

>> Beautifully said. Thank you for the question. Thank you for being here. Give it up for her. Thank you.

>> [applause] >> All right, we thought it'd be fun to play a little superlatives cuz as you guys know, we all have our personal brand listen to the show. That's a fancy word for most likely to >> you know when you were in high school senior superlatives >> most likely to I don't know for you it was probably run a marathon slash drop

out of college >> and you are you've never ran a marathon and you have like three master's degrees. >> Booyah. See, it worked out good.

>> Two PhDs. So, uh, we're going to have you guys vote, and this will also include Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz, who are not with us right now, but you're going to shout out who you think is most likely to do this thing. You with me?

>> All right, lightning round. Here we go.

Who is most likely to show up late to the studio?

>> That was too easy. Most likely to use a coupon at a restaurant or order a kids meal.

[laughter] >> That's hurtful, but true. Whoever wrote that, >> I've been with you when both things.

All right. Most likely to make a caller cry in a good way.

>> All right. I'm hearing a lot of John. A little bit of Rachel. Most likely to make a caller cry in a bad way.

>> Dave. All right.

Shout out to Dave. Just glad I wasn't in the running for that one.

>> All right, Jade, will you read a few of these off? Sure. I want to see what >> Let's see. Where'd you leave off here?

Number All right. Oh boy. Uh, number

four, get the giggles and not be able to recover. >> Rachel, >> that's easy. Giggly. Uh, leave their mic muted accidentally at the start of a

segment.

>> Ken. Wow. >> No, that's 100% me. >> I was going to say, I thought it was me.

That's great. I'm glad you didn't notice. All right. Uh, tell an 86y old

to get a job. Who would do that? Who

would? Heartless. Who ever would do that? That's not even That's a hypothetical. >> Use the word hemorrhoids on a call with a 52year-old mom. [laughter]

>> Oh boy. Oh, this one's good. Ask for a bottle of Tums.

>> Coleman. He loves He gets a little heartburn after an intense call and go, I got to get a bottle of Tums.

>> Yeah, that was a good That was good.

>> I've been working on my cannon breath. Thank you. >> That was good.

>> Oh my gosh. innocently dropped the worst

innuendos on air without realizing it.

>> Ken Coleman. >> Oh, I was going to say Dave.

>> Oh, Dave has done that. >> Listen, >> we call him kenuendos. Here's the thing.

You got Ken is like the most thoughtful

person and the most compassionate and he's the most like decor, right? There's a way you talk to people, especially when you're being a professional, and it just comes out. >> Yeah, it does. >> It's awesome. That's a good one.

>> And what's awesome about James and his team, literally, you can say something

and you can watch the show one the co-host will just look over at the booth >> and by the time the segment is over, our phones are already buzzing, someone's turned it into a meme and the whole company has it. It's awesome. >> Oh yeah, that's my favorite thing to do is when somebody says something sideways, I love just looking at James like, "Did you hear what I heard?" >> That's half my job now is just keeping track of a quote book of what you guys say.

>> I love it. All right, let's get to some more live questions. Let's see who we have next. We've got Is there a Jean Pierre in the crowd?

>> Hey, >> John Pierre, >> you in for coolest, fanciest name today so far. >> Thank you. >> All right. Where are you from? >> Uh, I live here in Orlando, Florida.

>> Wonderful. >> Thanks for being here. What's your question? >> Thank you. It's a privilege to be here.

Uh, just a little context. So, I've heard of Ramsay when I first graduated from college like seven years ago. So I didn't know anything about f finances till a buddy told me about Ramsay and like wow this is actually something you don't learn this stuff in high school and uh fast forward several years in the future now I guess I recently graduated from grad school in May and uh in that

time leading up to grad school you know we didn't have a lot of money we were saving up so I could go to grad school my wife and I and now it's done and now

that we are done you know we're on baby step I have we're very blessed, my wife and I, we have two kids. Um, how do we

grapple with the poverty mindset now that we are out of that now?

>> I love that question.

>> Well, Jade, you've been writing about this, haven't you? I mean, you got >> uh Yeah, you know, yes. Um, I have been

writing not specifically about this, though. Um, but I do like this question because I I feel like I understand it and I feel like it's relying on I kind of have like this checklist that I go through mentally cuz I feel that like there's times where Sam will want to do something and I'm like freaking out like why would he want to spend this money or vice versa and it is it's like your mind goes back to a mode from the past that's no longer the case, right? Yeah.

>> And it's like if I do this it could throw everything off the rails, right?

And so I kind of go through this checklist where I'm like, "Okay, am I it's it's what I call a financially responsible adult checklist." So it's it's five questions to ask yourself and it's based on the baby steps, right? So you're asking yourself, okay, wait a minute, am I on a budget? Like, am I utilizing my budget every single month?

I'm still doing my thing on that green light, right? Then the next question is, am I out of debt? And is what I'm wanting to do going to put me in debt?

No, it's not going to put me in debt. I'm still out of debt. Okay. Yeah, that's great. All right. Am I a person who uh values it saving? Am I saving in

all the right ways? Right? Do I have my emergency fund? Is this going to affect my emergency fund? Is it going to affect my 15% that I'm investing? Is it going to affect me, you know, putting more money on my house, which is a forced savings account? If the answer is no, that's a green light, right? Like, okay, I can spend this money. Then you're asking yourself, am I carrying the proper insuranceances, right? Is this do did I do everything that I was taught?

Do I carry my term life policy all you know do I have the right coverage on my home and my auto green light yes I do and then finally am I still a person who's valuing and prioritizing generosity and is this going to affect where that stands in my life and if the answer is no you've got five green lights that are showing you I have proven that I am a financially responsible adult and this is the guiding principle I'm not sacrificing that in any way and if that's true listen [clears throat] get into get involved.

And I think when you do that, it reminds you of what's kind of what John was saying earlier. It it reminds you of what's actually true about the situation. Everything's not on fire.

You're not going to screw up your life.

You're not going to go back to, you know, the hard place you were in before.

And that's really good to to remind yourself of that from time to time.

>> What was uh childhood like for you financially? >> Uh I didn't come from any money. My parents are two immigrants that came here with two suitcases and I was born here and I got to live out the American dream. >> I love that. That's cool. >> That's amazing. Awesome. [applause] But >> what what's a practical way you feel like you're still in that poverty mindset? Like what's something recent that's happened where you're like, man, why can't I I can't click out of this mode? >> I think it's you you guys always say

there's a spender and a saver. I always have that saver mentality and I probably

comes back from childhood that uh scarcity mentality and just I don't know fighting against that. I want to challenge you on that. If if in your situation the way you grew up it's not a mentality. It's wired into your nervous system. It's it's life or death. Right?

You grew up in a home where two people said we're going to make a run of it. We got two suitcases and that's all we got.

Right? So this it's easy to beat yourself up like I just need to change my mentality. This is in you. And so

it's got to be something that you're going to have to feel like I feel my body trying to take care of me. It's been to the other side where we got nothing right. And I have to know that's

not true. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna not just like try to think my way through it or change my mentality. I'm gonna practice. I'm gonna put like we talked earlier like I'm gonna put money in the budget that we are gonna just literally

go blow. We're gonna go have fun. We're gonna go dancing and before we go I'm

going to feel uncomfortable and that's okay. And then I'm going to go do it anyway. And what you'll teach your body over time. It's like the like the Instagram memes like how do I get more confident? Like you just got to feel confident. No, that's so stupid. You got to go do things and be successful and teach your body confidence, right? And so I'm going to teach my body it used to be and now it is. We weren't safe and

now we are. And a lot of firstgen folks

who find that follow this Ramsey plan, I hear there's also this quiet, sometimes

loud, often quiet voice of guilt.

>> Yes. >> Why me? And it's not fair. It It's like

joy is some zero. If I have joy, it somehow takes from somebody else. And that's not how joy works, man. Joy lifts everybody, right? And so it's being really grateful about what happened and then I'm gonna go practice. We're gonna be super generous and it's practice this

and come back in five years, man. You're going to have like a feather boa and you're going to be like, "What up? It's going to be awesome, man." [laughter] >> Have you used the word subconsciously, well, I don't deserve that.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, a way that I fought against that is to literally put it in the budget and use my accountability partner, my wife, to force me to go, hey, do you actually spend that money on that thing that you were scared to spend it on, that hobby that you want to invest in, that purchase, the experience? Do you have a thing in mind that you're like, that just takes my breath away a little bit to put the money there?

>> Nothing off the top of my mind right now, but yeah, instances like that come up. >> Does your wife have those things? And you've said, I don't think we can do that right now.

Absolutely. >> I'm really really proud of you.

>> That's awesome. >> You changed your family. >> I'm so proud of you, man. Thank you for being here. >> Thank you, guys. [applause] >> All right, we got another question here from Miguel.

>> How can I prepare myself at uh 19 years old to buy a house?

>> You're 19? >> Yes, sir. You got a full beard, bro.

>> Thank you. Listen, thicker than [laughter] >> George, puberty is coming. Just keep praying. >> They keep saying that. Hang in there.

Hang in there, George. [laughter] >> Oh my goodness. Okay, so you're 19. You got some goals? >> Yes. >> Are you working full-time? What's your situation? You in school?

>> No, I'm not in school. So, uh, my my family owns a a food truck for a long time, and I've always worked with them since I got out of high school. And so he pays me a salary and I also do like uh I guess hobbies that I I get I get some good money from weekly.

>> Some side hustles. >> Yes. >> Okay. What do you want to be doing long term? >> I'd really like to open up my own food truck and eventually a a restaurant and just be my own my own boss. And I've always liked customer service and serving people food. So that's that's my passion. I really >> You're 19. >> Yes, sir.

>> [applause] >> I'm just >> I was just trying to get somebody to go on a date with me when I was 19.

>> Hold on. Did you have a childhood or was it like I'm 12 and working in the food truck? Like you grew up fast, didn't you? Okay. So, your next goal is to buy a house. Uh, I I I think about, you

know, long a long long-term goal and I

think I'd love to, you know, get into a

marriage with a house or getting into uh

a house like I that that's my goal, you know, before before I get married or, you know, a couple years after I get married, I'd like to have a a house.

>> Can I ask why that is for you? Is it a security thing? Is it a wealth building thing? Is it a nobody in my family ever owned a house thing?

It's a It's a security thing and and also wealth building because I just I really like the the idea of having something that's mine. >> I love that. Do you have any debt? Did you?

>> No. >> No. No. I mean, I got a credit card when I was like 18 and then I cut it up after watching your video.

You cut it up when you was 18 yesterday. [laughter] >> All right. That's fantastic. You're doing great.

How much do you have in savings?

now. >> Good. >> Fantastic. Great job. >> Okay. So, you're working on the emergency fund. That's great. That's baby step three. And then beyond that, you could be in baby step 3B or four.

It's kind of a choose your own adventure if you want to stack up cash. I would say at 19, there's no reason you should go get a fourbedroom house tomorrow. Um, but I would work towards that and just stacking cash like keep living on less than you make. Do you have any fun hobbies that aren't side hustles that bring in income?

>> Um, I'm I'm working on it. Like hobbies like that don't include like uh making money just >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the hospitality world, like you're just like, I'm working 14our days, then I go to bed and wake up and redo.

So, I'm just trying to make sure that you live life as a 19-year-old, too. >> Cuz it's hard to meet a lady other than, you know, a customer at the food truck when you're in the food truck for 14 hours a day, >> right? Yeah. I'm working on that.

I'm doing like, you know, kaying.

>> Cool. Good gosh. If there's any single people here, he'll be outside in the parking lot when the show is over.

>> Okay. So my temptation for to tell him

this is the moment he found somebody,

the moment they got married, they're going to want their place and she's going to want input on that place. Like a wife someday. I would love to see you have your own food truck >> that you own outright. Like so I'm going to start investing in this. Not so I have stability like I get I get I want to have roots and this is mine. But I have found buying a house with my wife is a thing that we do together. It's a tree that we plant.

>> Whereas and not to say if you're single you shouldn't buy a house. That's not what I'm saying at all. But like at 19, >> right? >> But man, if you have that degree in whatever or in your case, I've got my food truck. I own it outright. Nobody owns Miguel. Yeah. >> And I'm a provider. I'm here. And that

to me feels where I would direct a 19-year-old. >> Yeah. I guess I'm not worried that you're going to get a house. Like, dude, you're so incredible that I'm like, sure, we'll save up and get you a good down payment, get a 15-year mortgage, 25% your take-home pay.

I have all the faith you're going to do that. And so, to John's point, I would be focusing on how am I going to build a sustainable career for myself where I own it. And man, that food truck's going to cost a pretty penny cuz I know you're paying cash. >> Yes.

>> What's that going to cost to get your own food truck up and running? The whole thing.

>> Yeah. >> What's that going to cost? >> If I build it myself and use like uh my father's business name and just make like a part two, it's like $15,000 $16,000. If I want to buy it from a dealer, like 22, $25,000 brand new.

>> I like investing in like a 401 Miguel for the next 3 years. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> You know what I'm saying?

Like, >> yeah, compound growth. You have all the time on your side. If you didn't start till 25 investing and working on the house, you'd still retire a multi multi multi-mill millionaire. So, what I don't want you to do is get the house and you're tied up and you're working on maintenance, repairs, and you don't have the money for the food truck and you're going to take on a loan cuz you think it'll pay off and work out.

I think it's just going to add stress to your life. And so, to John's point, I always love when young people just invest in themselves, especially people as sharp as you, that I'm like, I'm not worried about the income and the money. Like, you have an amazing work ethic. You're living on less than you make.

You're staying out of debt. And so I would focus on career at this point. And this is your college except instead of paying money to a college, you're making money and using it to invest in yourself. So man, I'm so proud of you.

>> This guy's incredible. Give it up for him. >> Thank you.

>> All right, man. I'm inspired. You guys are incredible. All right, we're going to play >> such a bum at 19.

>> I know. That's right. >> Yeah. I'm just like, dude, what were we doing at 19? A, I was staring in the mirror wondering, will I ever get a beard? No, >> I was taking out student loans.

[laughter] >> I was in an indie band and working at the Apple store. So, yeah, Miguel's crushing all of us. >> He is. He is. Good job, Miguel.

>> All right. If you uh listen to the radio show for some time, you know that we've had some great moments on air. Some hilarious calls, some crazy calls, some heartbreaking calls. And so, we're going to play a little game. We're going to play two truths in a lie, but with Ramsay show Call. So, we're going to tell you the the headline of the call that we actually took on air, but one of them was not a real call. Okay, you ready to play? So, I'm going to do ABC.

Tell me which one is the lie. A, is it

okay to work as a stripper if I'm making good money to put toward my debt snowball? B, I'm allergic to budgeting.

I break out in hives. Or is it C, I have

35 credit cards?

I'm hearing a lot of B. Is that fair?

>> I break out in hives. >> That's the lie. >> That was the lie.

>> I don't think we've taken that call where someone has a physical reaction.

>> Interesting. >> But the the stripper call was you and John. >> That was one of the calls like on the way home I was like, I think we actually helped somebody today. >> All right, next one. [laughter] >> Which one is the lie? A, my husband's been hiding $15,000 in the closet. B, my

husband is having sleepovers at his ex-girlfriend's house. Or is it C, my twin sister stole my identity?

>> Oh.

Very mixed crowd on this one. I heard a lot of A's. Make some noise if you think it's A is the lie.

>> Okay, make some noise. Think B is the lie about the sleepovers at ex-girlfriends. Make some noise if you think it's C. Twin sister stole the identity. [cheering] >> That's pretty split. Okay, it's C. My

twin sister stole my identity. We did not take that call, unfortunately. >> That would be a great call. But Deloney took them. My husband's been hiding 15 grand in the closet. [laughter] >> I remember that. >> I guess there's worse problems to have.

Like, I just found out there's all savings lying around. I'm like, all right. [laughter] >> Well, there's tons of wives that were like, really? Do you got them?

>> Better than finding you got 15 grand in debt. You know, >> the question is, what was he using the money for or going to use the money for?

>> Listen, George, that's where the call is. >> It's all coming down. We got to have 15,000 of cash. Hey, who who was the uh

who took the call about >> the ex-girlfriend? >> That was Dave. >> I was going to say that was an old one.

>> Old school Dave call when he was solo.

>> Uh my husband's having his ex-girlfriends. Yeah, we got to go Google that. By the way, you can literally just type all these into YouTube and find them later for your own enjoyment. All right, next one. Which one's the lie? A, I make $700,000 a

year, but I'm miserable. B, I was scammed by a NASCAR impersonator. Or C, my daughter embezzled $80,000 from our business. >> Oo.

>> B, I was scammed by a NASCAR impersonator. Happy to tell you that was a real >> I was on that call. I remember that. >> Tony and I were on that call.

>> I believe that >> it was a lot of money he gave this guy.

Uh, no. The lie was a I make $700,000 a year, but I'm miserable. >> Oh, interesting. >> A very believable call. >> It is >> over the NASCAR impersonator. So, if you ever get a Facebook message from a NASCAR driver, just know you're about to get scammed.

All right, next one. My ex-wife and baby mama are now friends. Our kids sports are costing us 20 grand a year and we're 150 grand in debt. >> I believe that. >> Or C, we haven't paid our bills in six years. Which one is the lie?

>> You guys could not be more wrong. A and C are real calls. B, our kids sports are costing us 20 grand a year. We're 150 grand a day. 50,000. Come on, y'all.

>> Yeah, it's way more than that for kids sports. All right, our next lineup.

Which one's the lie? A, my friend wants me to spend three grand for her bachelorette trip. How do I tell her no?

B, should I give my misbehaving spouse an allowance? And C, we're homeless and it's my wife's fault.

>> Once again, you guys couldn't We really planted these. Well, it's a my friend wants me to spend three grand for a bachelor, but I feel like we've taken very similar. [laughter] >> I took that call. James did his dirty on that one. >> James, wait a second.

[laughter] >> Yeah, Deloney was on the should I give my misbehaving spouse an allowance. I just don't like the word allowance on a grown adult. I don't even like it on kids. Honestly, >> I don't like the phrase my misbehaving adult.

>> Yeah, >> that's how they titled it. It may not be their words, but there we go. >> No, that's literally what they said. >> Oh. >> Oh gosh, we got problems.

>> I think of Austin Powers, like the O behave. Behave.

>> Next one. Which one's the lie? A. I inherited $1.25 million from my boss. B,

I spent almost $500,000 on med school and didn't pass the boards. Or C, I have rats living in my walls and my landlord won't do anything about it.

>> C is what was what was B?

>> I spent almost 500 grand on med school, didn't pass. >> I remember that. I was on that. >> Well, Dave took that one. I think it's an old school Dave call.

>> I took I inherited 1.25 million from my boss. >> I had questions. >> Yeah, that's I got >> What's your relationship like? Uh-huh.

>> with the boss. >> Makes you wonder. >> What do you think we'll inherit from our boss? >> Precisely. Zero dollars. >> Precisely. [laughter] >> Yeah. He's like, you are inheriting. It's called a salary. You work.

>> Congratulations on the inheritance.

Rachel's not here to defend herself.

>> Okay.

>> All right. Let's get to another live question. What's your first name? Where you from? >> Uh, I'm Doug and I'm from New York, but I moved to Florida like 10 years ago.

>> Cool. >> Um, my question is, uh, I'm engaged. Me

and my fiance are going to be married hopefully by September. I just opened up an LLC and we want to know how to the

best method for combining finances. We

have shared goals. We're already in premarital counseling. So, if you could

give me some tips on stuff maybe we wouldn't get from practical or traditional advice, that'd be great.

>> September of next year.

>> Yes. Like 2026.

>> Is she here? >> I played the fifth.

I'm just telling you right now, I'll perform the ceremony right now if you want to just do it. >> He's done it. No, we're huge fans of your show every Monday, Wednesday.

>> We get married today. >> I would love it. AR, would you?

[cheering] >> I don't think it's going to happen. >> I was going to say you did roll right here. >> You did roll in here short. >> No, y'all do the plan you had planned.

[laughter] >> Do the plan you had planned.

>> What we thought it'd be >> that would have been epic. So, you want you want untraditional advice on how to combine finances?

>> Yes, please. Or like the best >> you know how untraditional it is to combine finances.

>> It's so we get so much hate for telling people, "Hey, what if you had like a joint checking account?" >> No. My [laughter] independence. So, I'll just tell you what my wife and I did. I had a checking account. She had a checking account. We moved the money into mine and made it a joint account.

Kept my account number and she shut hers down. We have a joint high yield savings account. And that's it. Now, as far as the business goes, is she part of the business?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Then she should be on the business accounts as well. You have a business checking, business savings.

>> We got to open that up. And I'm doing the work. She's just like helping me with all the admin stuff, which sounds horrible. I just realized.

[laughter] >> No, I said doing all the work. >> I'm doing all the work. Yeah. No, I get it.

>> That's what I'm not. >> Yeah. This lady over here is going to come after you if we're not careful.

>> I was going to say here's some untraditional advice. >> Yeah. >> Don't combine money until you're married. >> Okay. And here's why. It's not like a like a church answer. I can make a case for that, [clears throat] >> but this is a and again, I'm only saying this. I think y'all are going to go be married for 75 years. You're going to live to be 140 years old. It's going to be awesome. Yeah. >> But if you're married and you end up not

making it, there is a legal process for dividing assets. If you're just dating

or or you're engaged and y'all start mixing stuff up, it is a nightmare to

untangle it. >> Should we do a pre- prenup on that?

>> I wouldn't. >> Okay. >> What's a pre-prenup? >> I don't know. I thought that'd be something [laughter] >> just making up new legal tools.

>> Yeah. >> I I would I would have an LLC in your name and you 1099 her and you pay her.

>> Yeah. >> As an employee. Well, I heard Dave Ramsey uh or it was you, John. Uh one

caller didn't know where her husband was spending the money and immediately I was like, Ari, you got to know. I want you to know every dollar that comes in, which isn't a lot right now, so it's easy. But [laughter] like, >> no, >> you can tell her though. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, all right. So, I'll tell her and then once we're married, then we do it. But like, cuz we heard a lot of different ones where like we live off one person's salary and invest the other.

like is there a way have you guys ever heard of that?

>> There's really no benefit of doing that because when it's combined it's it's both people's salary. So then the question is well what are we trying to accomplish? Are we trying to invest and then we if we are then yeah we're taking 15% of our money and doing it like that.

Now mathematically it could work out to end up being oh that happens to be the amount of money that you make but that's just kind of a coincidence at that point. So, it's really looking at the whole and saying what baby step are we on and then what amount of our money does it require to accomplish that baby step. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> I can't tell you the importance of changing from mine and yours to ours.

>> Oh, we're all about that. I got debtree because of you guys. I got my >> No, you got debtree because of you, brother. It's awesome. It's awesome. No.

Um I had one line you said that stuck with me. my we were just dating then and she was going through a lot and I just said what can I do to help you feel supported game changer we're engaged now

[laughter] >> she said put a ring on it that made me feel supported and he did way to go man >> thank you very much guys >> yeah we're rooting for you >> congrats brother >> all right let's get to some more fishbowl questions James where' the fishbowl go John has it okay let's pull a few more out John >> if you weren't doing this job what career would you want instead?

>> I know mine. >> What's that? >> Um, >> the singing chef.

>> Uh, well, I already did the entertainment thing. I'd be a chef. I'd open a restaurant.

>> You got a name for it yet, or you not want to leak it? >> Miguel's Food Truck Incorporated.

[laughter] >> I have some ideas, but I'm not ready to share them tonight.

>> Okay, so we got Chef >> George. What would you And I like the way it says it. What would you want instead?

What would I want instead? I mean, I think right now there's probably some gaps in the late night show host uh field. So, I'd probably put my hat in the ring, you know, it just feels fun.

You like the writers write and I do the monologue. I interview some celebrities.

We have a good time. Sneak in some personal finance advice in doing that.

>> You know, just give people some hope. And part of that is comedy and part of it is encouragement and fighting against cynicism and nihilism, which is what we're up against with young people today. So that's what I I think I would attempt to do. I'd probably it would really really be a YouTube channel. TV doesn't exist anymore. [laughter]

>> What would you do?

>> Man, [clears throat] walking into this room like into this this is like an old like a rock club, right? Like walking into this room reminded me like when I was 19, I so badly wanted to be the lead singer of like a punk rock band that would fill out rooms like this and just have chaotic evenings and then just go to the next town. So, I'd want to do that, but after the last year or two, if I could make a living traveling the country as a stand-up comic, that'd be a fun That's just a That's a super fun time.

>> Fantastic. Okay. >> Do you have a frugal habit you'll never give up? George's entire life.

>> Oh, man. So, I mean, all of them, but namely after being in Chicago two days ago, now Orlando, I will circle for parking for a good 15 minutes. If I'm

with my wife, 10. If it's just me, 15.

And I'm willing to walk at least a half mile to get free parking over a paid lot. That's my frugal habit.

>> That's good. >> And I stand by that. I will not be bullied by the parking lots. [laughter] >> Oh man.

>> Are you like, I've never been frugal.

>> Yeah.

I can think of one. Um I hate throwing away food. I mean, I'll I'll [laughter]

I've been known to eat some questionable food in the refrigerator just to make sure it doesn't go in the garbage. I am I am the garbage disposal. [laughter] Listen, 11 days doesn't phase me. I will get into it. >> Oh my gosh. >> What' you say? >> I said 11 days doesn't fase me. Like

lasagna. Come on. It's the gift that keeps on giving. >> George is changing color right next to you. [laughter] >> Dude, I'm like 3 days on my >> No, most things are good. like seven to 10 Jesus 3 days to rise from the dead. I think we can throw away the food now. Like >> no man, that >> George throws it away 48 hours before the expiration date. >> That's what the microwaves are for. They >> food poisoning once to go never again.

Never again. [laughter] >> A frugal habit I will never give up. I guess man,

I have a thing where cars and trucks and

clothes and shoes, the price of those

things is frozen in my head at the age of 20. [laughter] And I remember buying a truck that I could not afford for $17,000 when I was 20. And I went to get a truck a few

months ago and I looked at the guy and I was like, "You need to go in the parking lot and set yourself on fire for just like and so it stuck in my head." And I think the habit I would give up I went ahead and bought the truck cuz I I'm insecure. But I like the habit I'll

never give up is like dramatic exasperated dad anger over

the cost of everything. [laughter] >> That's my habit. >> That's strong. All right, pass it down to Jade because I don't want this lady to yell at us.

All right, here we go. Uh, what did what do you

think your life would look like if you weren't following the baby steps? What a

great question. Um, I've thought about

this actually many times. So, because of CO specifically, cuz when CO happened, I

remember looking at Sam being like, I'm so grateful that we did the baby steps and I'm so grateful we're debtree and we don't, you know, are everything is safe like we can cuz I told you entertainment shut down. Um, so without it, listen, I

don't even know. Number one, I hate to say this, but we may have gone through a time where we literally would have been like homeless and had to live with our parents. Um, but neither of us can live with our parents, [laughter] so we might have chosen like that street life. >> Dad, homeless. We'll take a seat.

>> Yeah. Listen, it wouldn't have been good. Um, terrible. >> Yeah. I'm trying to picture like going through it like I probably have bought too much house too soon. 30-year mortgage going, "Well, I guess I'll be, you know, 60 when that's paid off." Probably would like be leasing like the newest Tesla like it's an iPhone upgrade. Uh, I'd be finessing credit card points and convincing myself that I'm the smartest one.

>> Bragging about like the hotel I got for free, not realizing that I spent 60 grand to get that free hotel. So, I'd probably be like just that insufferable bro who like >> you have a mustache in a mustache.

Really tighter jeans than you have on right now. >> Yeah, probably uh probably still single.

I think fiscal responsibility is one of my only attractive traits at this point.

So, I think that helped get my wife.

See, I would just be an insurreable guy bragging about how I'm like I'm finessing the system, but secretly I'd be stressed out. >> I would be uh no question. I would I

would be institutionalized. I'd be insane.

That's not me making a joke. I'd be insane. >> I hear you. like I I owed so much and

every second >> there were these hounds that were coming after me and it was I was such an an

insane anxious mess and my life was so

out of control. The most frustrating thing for me as a as a like as a scientist, as a as a guy who did research for years, and as a professor, was to meet this guy named Dave who came up with a neuroscientifically accurate plan to pay off your debt, but also reclaim stability in your nervous system. And so like following that plan

also got me into a gym and it also got

me into a therapist and it also got me like sitting down across from my wife saying like we can choose a better marri like all those things. Um because it

gave me it gave me freedom and that

allowed me to take a deep breath and then think about what was next. So yeah, I'd definitely be not allowed out in public.

>> I love that. Yeah. I found like when people do their debt free scream, one of my favorite things is like they're like, "Oh, and I lost 50 pounds and my marriage got better." Like there's something where discipline begets discipline. And what I love about the debtree scream is yes, you got out of debt.

That's great. But it makes you realize how much agency you have over your life. >> Yeah. >> And once you have that, you're like, what else can't why can't I have a better marriage?

Why can't I have a better career? And so that's one of my favorite things about the baby steps is it's really just like a little hack to realize that you have more control than you think. >> That's awesome. >> Well said.

All right.

[laughter] >> Tell them about the game.

>> The game? >> It's time they can know. >> What game? You guys play a game without me? >> No. You and Ken taught me the game.

>> Oh, like the Ramsay after dark.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> What we would have said. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay.

>> What we wanted to say. what you muttered under your breath in the car that you couldn't say to your kids.

>> That's kind of what we do during the breaks is the real talk that we're like just the frustration, the anger, the hilarious thing that we could have said but may have been inappropriate.

[laughter] >> Well, I thought it would be fun uh to end the night with something that is one of our favorite moments on the show and that is the debtree scream. Can we end with that? >> All right. We have someone that we've hand selected who we think would be a wonderful way to end the night. Would you help us welcome Jessica to the debtree stage? [cheering] Give it up for Jessica.

[applause] >> All right, Jessica. This is a different debtree scream. >> Um, yes. Yes, it is.

>> You look here like you're having an out-of- body experience.

>> Mhm. Yep. >> How much debt did you pay off? >> Um, I paid off $127,611.

[cheering] >> Let's go. [applause] >> Okay. 127. What kind of debt was that?

>> Oh, um, most of it was graduate school loans. I also had, um, a car loan, medical debt, and credit cards.

>> Wow. >> Little pop parade. >> Yep. Oh, and I, um, cash flowed in emergency appendecttomy as well.

>> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Nothing stopping you now.

>> Not anymore. >> What was your What was the grad degree for? >> Um, I got my masters in international affairs. >> Wonderful. What do you do for work?

Right now I work for Grantsson Research for a local law enforcement agency in Tampa. >> Very cool. Thank you. >> Okay. How long did it take to pay off? Was that 127 grand? You said >> 127,000. Yeah. It took me just shy of 5 years. >> Wow. Holy >> smokes. Okay. And what was your range of income during that time? >> Started at 43 and ended at 72 at that time. >> Wow. >> You're amazing.

>> That is impressive. >> You're amazing.

>> Wow. >> Like how how did you >> You lived on nothing. >> Like were you selling stuff? for their side hustles. >> Um, >> how much did you sell that appendix for?

>> Listen, if I could have No, um, I did do

a couple side hustles. Um, there was a a limited option for overtime at my work.

Um, so I did tap into that. Um, I did do a side gig of grant writing. I also did a lot of dogs sitting over the course of that time. I did get a promotion and that's why it it jumped up. Um, that was about two years ago, so about halfway through. But yes. Yeah. Um, but honestly, living way below my means,

like honestly, all that budget is key.

If you're not on it, get on it. Um, but living below my means was incredible.

Um, having really understanding family and friends that when I said I couldn't go out to eat, but can we do a potluck?

>> Um, you know, that sort of thing.

>> What got you on the Ramsay plan to begin with? Um, so around COVID, um, I hadn't heard

of y'all quite yet, but we started getting these checks from the government for different things and people were buying Pelatons and water coolers and I didn't want any of that. Um, I had a lot of anxiety for my school loans and I just started to, you know, Pinterest getting out of debt cuz I'm that's my generation. >> That's fantastic. Okay, so you get on a plan and you're making, you know, 43 grand and you're like, "All right, let's start cleaning up a six-figure mess here." >> Yep.

started I started with the checks with my car and then I snowballed my credit card, my medical debt and then I had three different student loans. Um, two of them were federal.

not have a pause on it. So I just had to flow that through. >> You just plowed through that thing. So 5 years is a long journey man and Jade and her husband Sam it was like seven years because with a whole bunch of debt almost half a million like speak to the person who has that longer journey ahead of them who's like I two years sure but five I can't stick it out that long.

>> Yeah. Um it was just shy it was 3 months shy of 5 years. So um I completely understand that mentality. Um it was hard but I had I think I think it maybe was you Jade on the call. you're going to be somewhere in 5 years, where do you want to be? And I really wanted to be debtree. I did not want to live the life that I was living. So, I was like, what needs to be true for me to get there?

>> I love that. That Listen, you've got the mindset. I'm curious cuz you like we're kindred spirits on this. What was the craziest thing that you did to that you were like, I don't care. I'll do it if I have to get out. Was it something you cut from your budget? Was it a job you did? >> Um, yes. Um, okay. So, it does have to

do with the appendecttomy. So, I was dogsitting at the time >> and I was at I was at work at my day job and I went to the gym and I was like, "Something doesn't feel right. I think I ate too many chips, not that." Um, it

turned out that I needed to go to the hospital, but I was dogsitting and I was like, "If I if this is what I think it is, I'm not coming home." And I really don't want to lose this money, this tip.

So, I went back, walked the dog, figured out everything with the dog, and then drove myself to the hospital. >> To the hospital to walk the dog? >> Well, I didn't go to the hospital first. I went, you know, >> you waited >> knowing that this was like exploding inside of you and you're like, we got to walk the dog.

>> I need to walk the dog so the dog doesn't explode inside my house. >> I wasn't going to get the full amount cuz I wasn't going to stay, you know, for the agreed upon time, but I really I really wanted that tip.

>> Yeah, that any chance you're around 19 or 20 years old?

>> Me? No. >> Sorry, Miguel. I tried, brother.

>> Dang it. [laughter] >> [applause] >> This was feeling like a like perfect.

>> Set you up, brother. So, you had some cheerleaders. You said friends, family.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, my family was really supportive, specifically my parents, um, and my siblings and their families. Um, and then I got connected to a really good group at my church. Um, some of my work family supported me as well. So, >> I love it. So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is out of all that stuff you did? man. I mean, aside from the budget, you have to know your why. Um, unless you have a bigger

why of of getting out. And for me, it was just I knew what I wanted to I knew what I wanted my 30s to look like and it didn't want to be beholden to the man. I wanted to be free for the generosity that we've talked about and just the the bigger plans of doing whatever I want.

So, I kept that in mind when the times were hard. >> Wow. You're an inspiration.

>> I love it. Amazing.

Let's get to the moment we've all been waiting for. You ready?

>> This is a special debtree scream cuz usually the person doing the scream has like seven people in the lobby. You get 300 new best friends to cheer you on.

>> All right, it's Jessica from Florida.

$127,000 paid off in 5 years. Three months less

than 5 years to be exact. Making 43 to 72.

>> Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 GOD PROVIDES. I'M DEBTREE.

[music]

[applause]

>> We got the disco lights out here for you. That's something different.

>> Okay. Thank you so much, Jessica. We've got a parting gift for you. We're going to gift you a year of every dollar premium. The all new one that coaches you along this baby steps journey. That was a key to your your debtfree journey.

And uh I feel bad doing that in front of all these people.

So I feel like we should give it to more people. Don't you think we should give it to a few more people? Okay.

>> Look under your seat. We've got a year of every dollar premium for everybody in here tonight. >> Yay. >> No, that's for real. Look under your seat. It's seriously there. This is our Oprah moment. Congratulations.

>> It's taped under your chairs, guys.

You're all getting one year of our allnew Every Dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app now. We just released the newest version. >> Yeah. >> That will coach you guys along the journey. It's got uh digital coach experience recommendations. You got group coaching. So that's our gift to you to say thank you for being a part of our live audience tonight.

>> Give it to someone if you already have it. >> Guys, this has been so fun. Did you guys have a good time being a part of Ramsey Show Live? [cheering]

[applause] I'm inspired by you all tonight. the way you're living out the Ramsay plan, the dreams you have, the visions you have for your life, the people you want to become, the people you've transformed into already. Like, it's just it gives me hope for America, that we're going to be okay because of people like you who decided I have agency over my life. That's what this represents tonight. So, thank you guys so much for being here.

And hey, um I'm just going to say this

as directly as I can. I'm not I'm not trying to be silly, but like right now

leaving your house and joining a room full of strangers on a shared mission is

an act of courage. And I want to thank everybody who came out and who said, "I'm going to go into a room and meet a bunch of new people and hang out with a group of people that we listen to and we're going to get to see them and experience them." Thank y'all for being brave. Thank you for being courageous.

this right here, leaving your homes and being around like-minded people that share the same mission as you. Um, that's how this whole thing changes. And so, thank you'all for leaving your homes and coming and being a part of this tonight. It's awesome. [applause and cheering] >> You guys are incredible. Thank you, Orlando. We love you guys. Have a great night. [music]

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## 228. The Ramsey Show on Tour in Denver | May 15, 2026


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[music]

Cliff and I have been married for 2 years now. We currently reside in [music] the house that Cliff used to share with his ex-wife.

>> Do you want to sell it or do you want to burn it to the ground?

>> Should the guy [music] pay for all the dates or is there ever a time to split it? >> You asked [music] her out, you pay.

>> He put it on credit cards that I'm now paying for.

>> Sir, you're done. You don't get to talk anymore. >> How do couples continue to stay aligned over time when one [music] spouse is more financially anxious than the other?

>> If you're scared, can you blink twice?

[laughter] >> Have you ever seen somebody for anxiety?

>> No. I like myself the way I am.

>> Wow. You know what? I actually believe you. We've both been kind of slowly putting our finances together, but you're not married. Wrap it up, homie.

[music] [cheering]

>> [cheering] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, brought to you by Fair Winds Credit Union, live from [music] Denver, Colorado, this is the Ramsay

Show. [cheering and music]

YEAH.

OH, TO all these lovely people in the room and of course those watching wherever you're watching, however you're watching, welcome to this special tour edition of the Ramsay Show. So excited to be here and we're going to get right to it. It's the Ramsay Show except there's no phone calls. They are live in the room.

The good news is we can't hang up on them. The bad news is we can't hang up on them. Your personal brand is on the line. And by the way, I meant to mention when I got so excited when we started the show, >> what happened, Kim?

I didn't I didn't introduce you guys.

John thought I was talking about him.

Give Jade [laughter] some love.

>> I love it. I love it. [cheering] >> The handsome, the wise.

>> George Camel, ladies and gentlemen. [laughter] I mean John Deloney. I'm sorry. Dr. John Deloney. >> We get mixed up a lot. We get mixed up a lot. >> It's an uncanny resemblance. >> I know. >> And I'm Dave Ramsey. No, I'm Ken Coleman. It's exciting. Exciting to be here. Okay, we have a couple up here.

Okay, so I've got Cheryl and Clifton.

Not the big red dog.

>> No, I love that. Okay, >> that's Clifford. Ken. >> That's Clifford.

>> Close enough. >> That's like Mont Peelier. >> Well, I just >> That's like George Camel, dude. This thing's falling off. [laughter] >> I know. Yeah, I probably didn't get enough sleep last night. Sorry, Clifton.

[laughter] You're a dog. D A WG. Okay, Cheryl,

what's the question? We have a little debate going on. We're hoping you guys >> Are we settling a debate as in maybe like we're Supreme Court justices?

>> Yep. So, Cliff and I have been married for two years now. We created a very big

blended family between the two of us. We have nine children. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. And [applause]

we currently reside in the house that Cliff used to share with his ex-wife.

>> We all listen.

>> Yeah. This audience is on it right now.

>> This This case is not going to survive summary judgement. I'm pretty sure >> we have an extremely low mortgage that

would >> How much? >> Uh we have $225,000 left on it. We only pay $1,800 a month.

>> Okay. Gotcha. >> On a home that's big enough to hold all of us. >> Yeah. >> Um I would like to sell it and move to a

fresh start because it has bad juju in

it for me. Come on. >> He would like to stay, pay it off, and

save for our retirement and a long trip

that we plan to take when we get the last kid out of the house. >> Okay. And how many times, like hours,

just give me a general idea how many hours you've spent talking about this.

>> Look at the face.

>> Huh? >> Do you want to do you want to burn it to

the ground? [laughter] If we could get the money out of it and then burn it. Yeah. >> What's it worth if you sold it or burned it? >> Five to 530.

>> So, you walk away with a nice chunk of change and free of that. So, Clifton, this is uh fascinating. Couple hundred hours. That's why I asked that question.

And after a couple hundred hours, you're here live on the Ramsay show with three

people that are going to settle this debate. Are you not picking up the signals? In in other words, what is your after all of the conversation, what's keeping you hanging on to this house?

>> Honestly, we've gone around and looked at multiple other homes and we just haven't found something that's the equivalent. >> What do you mean by equivalent?

>> Just the bedrooms have been smaller. The

number of bedrooms, I just want to make sure that we have enough room in our house for everybody. If we wait two more years, we have a child graduating uh

here in a month and then the next one graduates the following year. Okay. So, if we had four kids still living with us in the house, then we could get a smaller house. >> Okay, I hear you now to you. And by the way, I'm going to do my judge part. I'll get out of the way. I want to know Cheryl when he says I'm holding on to it because we haven't found something that works. Have you found something that would work that you could make work?

Cheryl, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. the two-bedroom apartment down the street. >> I knew it. I knew it. John, move into a wall tent tomorrow.

>> Clifton, I've been doing this long enough to know I just put you in a corner >> and your wife is asking you to listen to her. >> You're bringing data to a feelings fight. >> Yeah. >> And you're going to lose.

>> We could go up to about $3,000 a month and still be within the Ramsay parameters, but [laughter]

There you go. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> Is it over the shoulder? >> No. >> I'd like it to come over. There it is.

>> I'm ready to rule. I don't know if you have any further questions, [laughter] >> John. Any further questions? J, >> I I just want to There's a point of clarification here. You said that y'all

could move all the way up to $3,000 a

month in monthly mortgage and still stay

within 25% of your total take-home pay.

>> Yeah. >> So, I the one question I'd have for the defendant is, "Brother, what are you doing?" [laughter] >> I think I'm about to lose my head according to Ken here with this weight.

>> But before he before he rules, let me rule yet. Let me be like for real. Is there a deeper attachment for you to the house besides the numbers? I >> It's actually the size of it. Okay.

Because if we could wait that two years, I mean, >> I love my wife tremendously, but if we could wait that two years and get a smaller home, the financial gains we'd have there would be >> I have a question for you, sir. If rolls were reversed and you were staying in this awesome house that >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. If rolls were reversed, would you be wanting to hang on to this house?

>> I honestly Yeah. I think I would be okay with it for the short time.

>> Short time. >> Has to be the short time, though. >> Two more years in your mind is a short short time with the ghost of the ex walking around the house. >> We've already lived in it for four years. >> Oh jeez. Clifton. Oh my gosh.

>> All right.

>> I rule in favor of Cheryl. Clifton, sell the house. [applause]

You get to do it next.

>> What am Oh, my >> Put it on the table and rule. >> All right. Uh, my ruling is the current house is indeed haunted, [laughter] and for that reason, I'm out.

[applause] >> I not only rule for Cheryl, but you,

sir, should go to jail.

>> Straight to jail. And and before we move on, James, >> don't y'all wish Dave was here tonight,

>> what if Dave [laughter] could be here?

>> Because Dave, I think >> What would Dave say? >> I think I got a message from Dave to you, Clifton. Are you ready?

>> I'm ready.

>> Suck it up, buttercup. [laughter]

Thank you guys. You're big sports. Give us some love. [applause]

Oh, I've waited my whole life for that moment, I think. How's the hair look? Is it all right? Okay.

>> I can't keep that on the whole time, but I'd like to. It get a little warm, doesn't it? >> Yeah. Uh, let's go to Trayvon. Give him some love. Trayvon, how are you? >> I'm doing good. How you doing? >> Good. Tell us where you're from. >> I'm uh from Corpus Christi.

>> Nice. Okay. What's your question?

>> So, my question today is, it's lovely to meet all of you all today. It's an honor. Would you change your approach to the baby steps if you were 29 today facing high rent and low wages while

prepping for marriage?

>> Wow. No, I wouldn't. Um

because doing so would make me the exception. And I think that when you go through life with that behavior that I'm the exception, I'm the exception to the rule, it gives you the opportunity to

cop out from a lot of hard things. That

being said, I do think that there's challenges. Like I want to validate the fact that there's challenges. There's always going to be a generation that faces challenges that the previous generation didn't face. And I think that you're feeling the weight of that right now. Um the advice stays the same.

So, what's the part of the There's something that you're wanting to go the other way on and tell me what it is and what you want to do instead.

>> I think I want to like invest more maybe like so I know it's like obviously I know the baby steps even like the emergency fund like you got do you want to save a thousand but I'm like is that is that enough for today kind of like how far the dollars goes and everything?

>> No, I mean a thousand's never been enough to be honest with you. I mean there's a lot of arguments for that but it's not supposed to be enough. It's I'll tell you what it what it was for Sam and I. And I think that these guys could probably chime in in the same way.

$1,000 is enough to make you get creative. It's enough that when an emergency strikes, you have to dig deep and go, "Okay, the washer and dryer went out. Uh if I had credit or if I had more

money, I would just go over to Lowe's and and get something or buy something off Craigslist or, you know, secondhand, whatever." But when you don't have any money to spend, then you go, "Okay, what can I do? Well, my mother-in-law is down the street. I can wash the clothes here.

I can dry him at her house, right? And you start thinking way more creatively.

My buddy is good at fixing things. I think I can call him over and he can, right? So, that's what $1,000 helps you do. And then, yeah, it's enough to cover, you know, a flat tire and little things like that, but um don't let that be the thing that stops you, especially if it hasn't stopped you yet.

I would hate for you to think towards the future and go, that's that's something that could potentially stop me and not test it and try it. >> I'd love to know your quick numbers. So, how much debt do you have?

like 6,000. >> That's it. >> What's the 6,000?

>> So, I have like my my car is the majority of it, but I have 5,000 in 5,000 in my for my car. Then, as far as

my I got like some tax stuff, maybe like a,000. Okay. 1,500. Yeah.

>> What What in what kind of income do you have? >> I make around like [snorts] 4,000 a month right now.

>> Okay. And when do you expect to be debtree? If you're mapping this out and you're getting after it, when do you think you're debt free?

>> Oh man. Uh >> 6,000. Come on, man. >> Yeah, it's not it's not a lot right now.

I'll say like within the next >> four to five months. >> Good answer. [laughter] >> I don't I don't four to five months.

>> I mean, make it 90 days.

>> I'm with John. I'd like to see So, here's where I'm going with this. All right. So, on the other side of that now

is baby step three. So, you have a $48,000 income. Quick math. What's a good emergency fund for him? three months worth of expenses. >> I I would start with 18.

>> 18. You feel good about that number?

>> Okay. >> All right. Let's fast forward. All right. So, what's on the other side of baby step three for you?

>> Baby step >> four. >> And what are you doing in baby step four?

>> Help him out crowd. >> Yeah. Help me out.

>> Investing 15 20 15 to 20%. Yes.

>> And how old are you right now? >> I'm 29. >> 29. >> Yeah.

>> James, do you have Can we do a quick investment calculator? >> I got it. I got it. >> Oh, right.

This here's cuz this was the this was the heart of your question, wasn't it? >> You were like, I want to start investing. I feel like I'm 29. I'm almost 30 and paying off this debt.

You were going, I'm not investing. Am I right? Is that what I heard? >> Right.

I do have I want to add one little thing, too. So, like if I want to like obviously preparing for marriage, >> how much should I be putting towards a ring? You know, from that standpoint as well.

>> Yes. >> She's right here to my left.

Uh, well, but I mean, which is the bigger question? Saving for the ring or hey, should I get out of order on the baby steps? You know what our answer is?

>> Yeah, >> I've already made the point. You're you're not far away from being able to

be into baby step four. And Jade's going to do a little investment calculator. So, pick him up at what, 30 years of age. >> Yeah, I'm going to pick you up at 30. Do you already have anything in there?

>> What do you mean? >> Do you already have anything invested?

>> Any 401k or anything?

>> Yes, I do. >> How much? >> About like 3,000. Okay. So, I'm going to

put that in there. So, we'll start this >> at age 30, assuming you're going to save up the $18,000. You have an engagement ring to buy. You have $6,000 of debt to pay off. Uh let's say that, and this is very conservative because I'm just going off the $4,000. I'm not doing it off your gross amount. So, let's say 600 bucks a month. Average rate of return annualized, we'll say 10%. Okay. So, if I calculate that from age 30 to let's go with 65. Does that sound good?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. That's going to be drum roll please. Oh, very nice.

>> 2.375 million >> million dollars. >> And and that's assuming nothing gets better from here on out. So the the

barrier like the bar is low here, >> right? [laughter] >> So Trayvon, you see what we just did?

>> Don't go out of order. >> Yeah. You don't need to. >> You're a young man. You're going to be very wealthy. You should see the smile on the face of that lady next to you when she saw 2.375

million. [laughter] Yeah.

>> You didn't think he had it in him, did you? Look at her. She's like She's like, "What's up? Look at this." >> And that's not even like Yeah. Once you guys get married, you're going to be contributing to that. Like you guys are going to be off the hook. >> That number's low is what she's telling you. >> Right. >> You got us. >> Yes. I got Yes. Sounds good. >> Now, do you want to add You want to weigh in on the uh cost of the ring.

This was a hot topic in Charlotte.

>> I think I think uh ma'am next to him

should needs to weigh in. >> Have you picked out the ring? >> No, not yet. >> Have you given him any guidance?

Not a ton. >> Not a ton. [laughter] Did you listen, Trayvon? >> I do. Yeah. >> Do you have an idea what that number is without saying anything?

>> I say between four to eight.

>> Oh, you went ahead and said it. Okay.

[laughter] >> I'm like I'm trying to make it easy on him. So four to eight. How do you feel?

I feel great about that. >> I feel really good about that. How do you feel about that? >> I mean, honestly, mine was lower than his. >> Okay, great. >> Bro, lock this down now.

>> Lock it in. >> Do you want to say a little something to her right now? Have you already asked her? Not right now.

>> Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. >> Bro, we got you. This is going to be big [laughter] time. >> Yeah, cuz Jake can sing. I mean, John's licensed somewhere on the internet to do something. I mean, we could just get it and wrap this up tonight. >> We can play John Legend right now.

[laughter] >> I love it. Hey everybody, give Trayvon some love. That's awesome. [applause]

>> Uh, okay. Who do we have next? Lauren.

Give Lauren some love as she comes to the mic. Where is Lauren? Yeah.

[applause] Come on down.

>> Hi, Lauren. >> Hi. >> Who do you have with you? >> My husband. >> Oh, very nice. Tell us your names and where you're from. >> Uh, my name is Christian. Um, origin from West Africa, based. Yes.

>> And I'm Lauren. I'm from Reno, but I live in Denver. >> Okay, great. All right. So, what's your question? >> Um, so it's I don't know if we're going to need judgment. Um, >> I can go get the wig. [laughter] >> You might need to. We'll see. Um, so we've been following the Ramsay plan for I don't know, eight months and we've paid off about 120,000 of debt. Yeah.

[applause] Yeah. Um, definit.

And um we disagree on the percentage for investment right now because we started investing like

probably in the last couple of paychecks to the max amount that we can and now

we're in the step where we could start putting more toward our mortgage. We have a 15-year mortgage and uh it just feels a little tight and I can't get him to see that it feels a little tight.

>> Okay. Tell us your position. We'll start with you. Uh, so what is your position on how much? >> Um, well I I would like to be within the

like 15 to 18% and right now we're at like 22%. >> Oh. >> Oh. Investing 22%. >> Yeah. Christian is like, let's go.

>> He Well, I in in all fairness, so we're both 38 and we have not saved much for,

you know, we don't have a ton in our 401ks. He has much more than I do. And so I think the >> I won't speak for him, but I've heard the argument. >> Let's hear from Christian. So Christian, why are you wanting to invest more than 15%. What's the fear driving this?

>> Well, uh, thank you, Ken. Um, maybe because is the number. Uh, so at the

beginning of this month, um, I saw the stock market tank. And I told her, well, let's mass the uh 24,000 for IRS limit

for the year because I'm a CPA. So, I was telling her that. So, and she said, no, Ramsey says 15%. And I said, I think they say at least 15, not at most 15.

>> Well, you're you're in baby step six. Is that what I heard? >> Yeah. So, yes. So, yeah.

>> Yeah. So, are you putting anything extra towards the house? >> Well, that is where I I was telling her that since what is going on on the stock market now and I think for me is a good opportunity to buy. So I said, well, let's throw in the 24,000 a month or

each so that after a year when the

market start going up, we can back up from the investment and now throw in the mortgage. >> I hear you, Christian. Your your your

thought process I I I get it. You're like, "Hey, I'm going to take advantage of the stock market while it's down. It makes sense." It does, but you're just not in that spot to do it yet. Right now is the time to throw any and all extra money that you guys decide at the home mortgage and start paying that off.

You're doing the 15%. That is great. As if you want me to bust out the the calculator again, although I have a feeling you've calculated this. [laughter] >> We do it like >> all the time. Yeah, I can tell.

>> You're going to be just fine because the thing is if you go ahead and start paying this mortgage off when the time comes if you wanted to invest 25%. If you wanted to in I mean you could really just go hog wild on this. I think you're

very very excited. And for whatever reason, and I tell people this all the time, investing, paying off your home mortgage, that's an investment too, right? It's still an investment. It's just in on a a different median, right?

So, I would go ahead and follow the baby steps and do it that way and go ahead and do the 15%.

>> For now, >> but [laughter] your face is saying but

>> no, the thing I think uh >> don't argue with Jade. No, listen. Let's go. [laughter] We gross okay we we gross like uh 250 and basically think about

our was mortgage is like around 2500 so

for me that's the most the biggest expense besides other child care but like I think we still have a margin but she does nothing so you probably do have the margin I'm just saying put it towards the mortgage cuz how much is left to go on the mortgage >> yeah like maybe a thousand

>> no no I mean total balance oh total oh $250 50 >> 250. I think here's what I think happens. I think it's cuz the money is the money, right? It's either going to one investment or another. What it is is it's very daunting to look at a $250,000 mortgage and go, "Well, I'm going to chip away at that little by little." That feels mentally daunting. What doesn't feel daunting is I have a goal to save up $250,000 over here, right?

And so, I think it's just your mind going to what you think is going to be the easier play when really it's the same thing. You're still, you know, the house is still getting paid down. you're still going to be able to have the money to invest later. So, think about that because I have a feeling that that's what's pushing you is it feels daunting

to pay off. Who here is on baby step six? Is it daunting to pay off the mortgage?

>> There you go. >> And Christian, can I throw something at you and tell me if I'm wrong, ma'am?

Okay.

In my house, my wife sleeps just fine with a

mortgage. She slept just fine with her

payment on her Corolla. It it it doesn't

have a visceral response in her. I can't

breathe if I owe somebody money. I I I wish I could just snap my fingers and say it is what it is. It a great gift

she gave me was to say, I don't have this same anxiety in my chest that you do about money, but if it means this much to you, I'm in. Let's do this thing. like let's make sure we're putting money in retirement or whatever. But I'll forego a vacation.

I'll forego fancy stuff because I love you enough that if we do this thing on the back end when we paid our house off, you better believe we went on the stupidest vacation I could imagine. But it was a gift she gave me cuz she said, "It's it's you and me ride or die. And if this means that much to you, if if we can still keep putting money away, um I I I'll be a part of this thing." And so even if you just set the numbers aside, I'm hearing this this mortgage weighs on you.

>> Yeah, it'd be great to be completely debtree. >> Okay.

[laughter] >> That's you look incredible, man.

>> That's true. [laughter] Yeah. Thanks.

>> Yeah. You know, I I I would just tell you that Christian, it's really important to her and you need to lean in on this because you're going to be fine.

Get on. You're on you're every day on the website according to your wife. Like we're looking at the investment calculator. You know, you're going to be fine. Nobody needs to tell you that. But to her, I think John just laid it out beautifully. And I'm going to put the pressure on you. Manto man, you got to listen. You and Clifton, man, you guys need to form a group.

>> I will give in tonight. So, >> you will give in? Yeah. So, quick quick last question. How any tip on making the

budget meeting pleasant and consistent?

[laughter] >> Okay. Is this So you're the nerd. Yes.

>> And you're the free spirit. >> He's a big nerd. >> Okay. What do you think, Jade? This is interesting. Make it fun. >> Making it fun and budget.

>> I mean, marijuana is legal in [laughter] I'm just kidding. Don't do that. Don't do that.

>> What? Um, so I'd like to hear from

Lauren. What causes the budget meeting to not be fun?

>> I could tell you right now. Can I guess?

Can I guess? Here's what happens. Christian brings the completed plan. And then Lauren says, "Okay, but food costs more than $9 a month." And Christian's like, >> "First, let me turn the suit this way." [laughter] And then he says, "I think we can make it." >> You know how to fix that, don't you? >> Without a doubt. Yeah. >> Make him eat rice and beans and you eat real food, >> you know. Yeah. like our kids don't need to eat. Like they'll be fine, you know?

>> Okay. So, it sounds like for you it's it's you're walking into a persuasion.

Like you're walking in having to already have an argument prepared.

>> Definitely. >> What would happen? Uh uh what would happen if you sat together and as you go down the line items, you decide together what the amount is versus Christian already having one set and you having to agree to it. Is that better or worse?

Um, there's just so much negotiation on

every single thing and then it's still the same argument of >> buddy, you got to loosen the purse, the purse strings, [laughter] man.

>> You realize you pulled off the greatest negotiation of all time, getting her to marry you, right? [laughter] Take the dub, man. Take the win. You got

to relax a little bit. You got to hear this from her. >> All right. Here's the plan. I got you.

You bring a completed budget and set it on the table. She for the next six months has to change at least three,

preferably five line items by $1, $50,5

I don't care. And you got to be like, I love you for making that change. You can under the table, you can be like, but you you have to practice doing this thing together. Y'all are co-creating this marriage together. And also, you've got a set of skills like you're good at numbers, you're good at budgeting stuff, and you also have to practice. I'm gonna trust her to also give us some fun and some joy in this house.

>> And I'm gonna do my best to try to help out. You need to loosen up. [laughter]

>> Let's go. Here's a bottle of red wine.

The next budget meeting, look at me. The next budget meeting, you drink about half of that before you start.

>> Okay. All right. Give them some love.

That's fun.

[applause] Oh, man.

Quick thing, John. I want to tee you up real quick. You know, uh, just couples in your, we got a lot of people watching this on YouTube, obviously, everybody in the room, but this idea of knowing how

your I want you both to speak this.

Knowing how your partner is wired about money, you got to get that first or else the budget meeting is like Charlie Brown's teacher. True or false?

>> Yeah. It becomes a it becomes a proxy war. It becomes a place where we have a fight that really the the disagreement is about. I don't feel safe in this situation. And the greatest gift you can give to your spouse is safety and trust.

And so if if y'all keep having this fight about I think this line item is wrong and I made this budget, back all the way out and ask yourself, why is it so important to me that this thing be mine and only mine? And ask yourself, what is it about owing somebody money that scares me? And then put that on the table and share that together. and let's let's get beneath the the the budget fight and let's get to the real connection underneath it.

>> Jay, give us a word to couples on getting on the same page. >> Oh, um, that's a good one. You know, Sam and I, we've vacasillated between who's the the spender and who's the nerd. And so, there's been seasons where I'm the spender and I know what that feels like to be shut down.

And then there's seasons where I'm more nerdy and he's wanting to spend. So, I think just having grace for where each other is in the season and to to John's point, really getting underneath it and go challenging yourself to ask why why do they value that so much and then when you can understand it, it's easier for you to um you know, meet them halfway if you can try to understand it a little bit. >> Love it. All right, we're going to go next to Stephanie.

Everybody give Stephanie some love. Stephanie, [cheering] >> hello. >> Where are you from? >> I'm from Salt Lake City.

>> Salt Lake City. Very nice. Okay, what's your question?

and information I'm going through, it's extending into my family now. So my ma my main main question is how do I talk to my siblings about their money habits

currently? um you know like they want to buy the expensive things, they want to look this successful, but I was hoping to get some more, you know, encouragement to them to like let's let's talk about financial security and what it looks like. >> How's that gone so far [laughter] >> without damaging our relationship? Um I

I get the nods, you know, I get the Okay, cool.

>> Did they Did they ask? >> Yeah. Have they ever asked? Um, no. It's

more like, oh, you um you need money to

pay for your your car payment or to buy

the latest jersey or, you know, someone's coming into town for a concert and they want to, you know, borrow the money to so that they can go, but they'll pay me back when they get paid.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the hardest things for people is when you have loved

ones >> that are making choices that you know

aren't healthy or good >> for them. It's hard.

>> And it's really hard when they don't want your advice. They would never ask for your advice. And in fact, they take your advice as as an affront or an

attack. Right. Yes. I think in in pitching I I think the greatest gift you could give them is to just live peace.

>> Don't owe anybody money. Buy presents with cash. Like be a such a radiant

joyful presence because you don't owe anybody anything. You're free that

hopefully when when when the when the damn breaks and it will >> they know, oh, I know there's a light in the dark somewhere and I I'm going to make that call. And that call may never come. by the way. >> Yeah.

>> And you grieve that and you go do the next right thing. But I've just made it, dude. I've ruined I've got several of my oldest friends. The friends I've been friends for 30 years here.

They'll tell you I have ruined >> I'd like to meet them later. >> They're incredible.

parties, dinner, gettogethers by trying

to over advise and lecture and I'm I can

be so annoying. So I just a few years ago like I'm going to stop giving advice to people who don't ask for it. And what I've given myself is peace. I have much more pleasant dinners. And weirdly, more

people circle back and say, "Hey, can I ask you your thoughts on something?" Right? Okay. >> And so if they're not asking for it and you've tried and they just give you that nod like you're trying to sell them essential oils. If you sell essential oils, stop. But like

>> like I think it's like half the audience awkwardly as I scan. I got a buddy who's like in congestive heart failure and his wife's like, "Just put some thieves oil." No.

Oh, I forgot. We're in Denver.

>> You got to read the room, buddy. >> My bad. My bad. You said that and half the room went, "Yeah, [laughter]

>> this is my quick take. >> Next, we're going to go around and ask each other who who you voted for." >> No. Well, you know, it's interesting. I

want to flip it for you. How many siblings do you have? >> I'm the oldest of five. >> Okay.

Has there been a time where one of your siblings started advising you or started telling you about something that they were excited about or who they were voting for or where they were going to church? Has there ever been a situation like that where they were a little enthusiastic to you and you were like, "Okay, thanks." >> Yeah. The oils. >> The oils.

>> Yes. >> Really? >> Essential oils. >> Well, that's like big in Salt Lake, right?

>> Mhm. >> That's interesting. That's why it smells so good. >> Salt Lake.

I think it smells nice >> in the whole city. >> Yeah, I think so. It's wafting. It's just wafting out of everybody's houses.

[laughter] Okay, so back to your situation. You didn't like it, did you? It felt a little uncomfortable. >> Weird.

Yeah, for sure. >> That's what you're doing to them. >> Mhm. >> And I'm [clears throat] not picking on you.

>> Oh, no. >> I'm just putting the shoe on the other foot there. And I think John's advice is fantastic. I think you just got to live it out.

A >> lot of grace. And when you feel tempted to go, but I do this and Dave Ramsey says that >> don't just live it out and I think you're gonna be okay. >> Okay. >> And you got your own journey to win, you know? >> So, the best thing you can do is walk through the baby steps and get really healthy. And now they're looking at a model of what they want in their life.

And John nailed it. It's peace. >> How How close are you to paying off everything? >> I still probably have about a good two years. >> Okay. >> Two years. Will you call into the show when you're when you're there?

>> Well, yes. Yes, I do. I plan I Well, I plan on it. It just I hope my husband's on the Well, is with me when he when I make the phone call. [laughter] >> Is he here tonight? >> No, he's not. He's back home. >> Okay, great. Same thing with your husband. >> Mhm. >> Don't be preaching all the time. Just say, "Hey, I think this makes sense.

What do you think about it?" Ask questions. One of the things I learned way too late in life uh in dealing with

u people in general uh family co-workers

and I and I you know I made a living asking questions but it took me too stinking long in my personal life to stop making statements.

I was making too many statements with my kids with my wife with my father. Too

many dagum statements. I was just one big giant conviction.

You know what I'm talking about? And if I can be real for a moment, and I want you guys to weigh on this, I'll just say this very quickly, maybe just to help a lot of people in the room.

I had to realize that while my conviction was pure and my heart was

pure, it wasn't coming across that way.

I was too busy making statements. And when you make a statement, it's like me throwing a ball right out here in the crowd. And when I throw a ball right here, what are you going to do? You're going to react. You're going to defend yourself, right? I don't want to hit get hit in the nose. And I think John, I don't know if this holds up clinically.

>> That's what I did. Yeah. But but I was throwing balls at people's faces

with statements. I'm as serious as I can be. I don't mind you laughing, but I'm telling you what I was doing. And if you shift this, and John knows more about this from his clinical and his education, all this stuff, but when you shift it to a question, the defensiveness goes away. Instead of throwing something at you, I hand you something. And if I hand something to Jade, she takes it and then it's hers.

John, you need to finish that. Even better than >> Well, maybe she doesn't take it from me, but >> I took it. I just tossed it away after.

>> Even better, you're you're not handing them something. You're inviting them.

Right. >> That's the idea. >> And um I think that's a I think that's a that's a gift. There's the old and you may even know the theologian who said this but um preach every day to everyone

always and use words only when necessary. Right? So let your let your life live this piece. Right. Stephanie,

you're awesome. Everybody give Stephanie some love. So fun. [applause]

John, I got to go back to the the essential oils thing. and you're hating on them a lot, but you have a pretty funny story about your own experience with them. I think you need to tell the audience. >> I think we are good.

>> Then maybe James needs to share. >> So, I got for real. I was clearing brush out at my house in the woods over Christmas and I got covered in poison

ivy >> and I had I had a whole drawer full of

essential oils and so I got the what I

thought was like the healer kind. And I got this stuff called oregano oil >> and I rubbed it all over myself. Well, I

was like parts of my arm were falling off

and my wife came in and I stepped out and I was like, "Hey, is this" and she's always like telling me like, "You're such a baby, such a whiner." She looked at my arm. She's like, "Oh, we have to go to the ER now." And I was like, "It's Christmas Eve." And she goes, "We're going to the hospital now." Like parts of my arm were coming off. And when I got to the hospital, it was one of the greatest. Like when he said this, I was like, "You're my doctor for life." This guy walks in in a rural Tennessee hospital Christmas Eve, and he goes, "Hi, I'm I'm Dr.

Braxton.

get this out of the way. I'm working at

a Dockin Box ER on Christmas Eve in rural Tennessee. I'm clearly not very good at my job." I was like, "You're my

man." I thought he was going to say he just delivered a goat or something. >> No, it was awesome. So, no more essential oils for me. >> You forgot to put the You have to put a carrier oil with it.

>> Now you're just like That's like Now we're at Hogwarts. >> Do you believe Do you believe that? Is that right? I'm I My wife >> Some of them you can't put directly. You have to put it with a It's too strong.

>> You can't triple stamp a double stamp. All right. Listen, [laughter] raise your hand if you ever get weird

spam text or emails.

All right. Listen. I joke all the time, I hate being online. And here's the

truth. I am online. My whole life and career is online. I'm on podcast, social media, YouTube, everywhere. And because of that, my personal information is all over everywhere. And somebody whispering

to me.

>> Wow. >> It was It was in our It was in our ins.

>> Oh, I thought you were saying, "John, you're doing this terrible." >> No, that's just a voice in your head.

Oh. Does anybody have an oil for that?

Yeah, >> we can rub it on right now. I'll rub it on your scalp. It'll be great.

>> We're going to have to edit this back. Is that cool? >> It's okay. Just keep going. Do they know that we're doing an ad?

>> We're doing John [laughter] >> John has the subtlety of an anvil.

>> Uh yeah, just start back over. Hopefully the whispering won't stop.

>> This is a live radio show, so I'm doing an ad. Are we cool?

>> Hold on one second. >> I'm not good at this job. >> If it Do you want me to read it?

>> All right, everybody. Raise your hand if you've ever get weird spam texts or emails, right? Listen, I joke all the time that I hate being online, but that's my whole job. I'm on YouTube, I'm on podcasts, I'm all over the internets. I'm everywhere. And because of that, all my personal information, pictures of me, my stories about my life, everything is also online. But even though you don't

host a national show, your information is also all over the internet, too. And

we all know this in your personal life, in your professional life, your reputation matters. Think about it. How many years you spent building trust, getting momentum, your character and consistency is what people know you by.

And all of a sudden, your entire reputation can go up. Poof. Just like that. Because data brokers are posting your data online without your consent.

So that's why all three of us use Delete Me. And we recommend that you do it as well. This is and think about this. your phone number, home address, old email accounts, all your family's info, it's all out there, and it makes you vulnerable to spam and scams. So, this

is dangerous stuff, okay? Delete me goes to hundreds of those data broker sites, removes your stuff, and this the best part. They keep going back and remove them. So, you don't have to worry about it. They take care of you. And you can get right now 20% off an annual plan at joineddeeme.com/ramsey.

That's joined me.com/ramsey.

And that John is how you do a professional ad read. [laughter] >> I'm sorry. [applause] I mean, [cheering] I felt like we were in that commercial where they bring the backup QB in. You know, I was like, Jade, yes, >> you're in. >> I was ready. >> You were ready. >> Oh, John, you're awesome. >> I'm not good at I'm trying.

>> Okay, >> you did good. >> Hey, while we're here in Denver, we decided to get out on the streets and talk to people about money. If you had a $1,000 emergency today, just out of nowhere, what would you do?

>> Go to my savings. >> What do you have in savings? >> I don't want to tell you that. >> Honestly, I don't know. I don't know.

I'm not too good with my monies. >> Who would you call?

>> Uh, probably my family. I would cover it because I've saved. >> You got the money. It's not even a blip.

>> I've saved enough money where I could easily pay it off. My father is a wonderful human being and I would probably say, "Hey, Dad, please help me. I'm crying." >> Do you think about things like having an emergency fund at this stage of your life? Not as much as I should.

For instance, my car desperately needs new tires and I have put that off and put that off. When it happens, I'll have a rude awakening call. Chris, >> you have young kids. Call and say, "I need new tires." Say, "Well, that's, you know, that's a problem you have, isn't it?" >> They ask you how you are, you just have to say that you're [music] fine when you're not really.

>> I can just pull from my emergency.

>> You've got it in the bank. >> I've got it in the bank. >> What do we call that in Ramsay land?

>> Baby step number one. >> You got it. All right. You thought it was a trick question. Hey, by the way, while we're talking about amazing partners, uh you know, we're very careful at Ramsey on who we endorse.

Fair Winds Credit Union, as you know, they're the title sponsor of our studio in Nashville. We'd love to see you guys come see us, and they're helping us make this tour uh happen. So, we're really

grateful to whatever executive at Fairwind's Credit Union made this happen. So, we want you to know, great, great organization. We trust them. Go check them out. All right. Now, we're gonna do something fun. >> I'm ready. Okay, everybody's been asking us questions and we will continue to do that. But now, John, Jade, this is our turn to flip the script. In other words,

we're going to ask you some questions.

Okay? We want to hear from you what you think. So, Jade, I feel like you're the fairest of us all, ladies first, what

you want to know from the audience. H I

want to know should the guy pay for all the dates or is there ever a time to split it?

>> Oh, let's say >> if you're dating. This is for my my singles. >> Who's got an opinion? Raise your hand because we want to hear you right here.

Tell us your opinion.

>> My opinion is that when I ask my

boyfriend out or when I ask another person out, I pay. And when someone else asks me out, they pay. Now, that being said, I don't assume >> what happens if they're in a relationship, >> like married. >> No, dating. You jumped really fast.

>> Well, I >> is your question. I I wanted context [laughter] from you. What do you think?

>> If they're Well, if they're not dating, what what's what's she just said, if I

ask a person out, then I pay. If they ask me out, I'm saying now if you're like dating for a long time are 6 weeks in. I It's your question. >> All I'll be honest. I'm always like, "The guy pays." >> Me, too. I'm old school. Dude pays.

>> But I also >> Okay, that got that got a a good got a good response. >> Decent response. If you think that you should go is it Dutch? Is that the term?

>> Go Dutch. >> If you think you should go Dutch, let's hear your applause. [applause]

>> Okay. >> That didn't that didn't hit right. >> Very progressive people. [laughter] >> That's great. >> Very progressive people or very broke dudes.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I want to know about that. I want to know a guy's opinion on this. Who is Yeah. Who feels it in their wallet? >> Do we have a guy >> who's who's brave enough to say something? >> Go against up in the up in the top.

>> I see him. It was a bold hand raise.

>> Okay, we can't. Can we get a mic to him?

We can. All right. Hang on. This is exciting.

What is your answer, sir?

>> I say regardless of your financial situation, you asked her out, you pay.

>> Let's go. >> But if she What if she makes the plans?

What if you're just talking and she's like, "Oh, I'm going to go to dinner. Do you want to come with me?" >> Is that how that sounds?

>> I don't know. [laughter] I've never >> I WAS OFFENDED ON BEHALF of women for your voice. >> I've never ASKED A GUY OUT. I DON'T KNOW. >> Is it Tinkerbell?

>> Doesn't change. Still pay.

>> My guy. My daughter right next to you.

>> Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

[laughter] >> Now, who? Wait a second, ma'am. You don't just take over the show. That's his That's his wife. Who are you? I'm his [laughter] I'm his wife. >> YOU'RE HIS WIFE. OKAY. >> PLEASE GOD, PLEASE TELL ME YOU PAID ONCE. >> NO. NO. What I'm saying is he put it on credit cards that I'm now paying for as his wife.

[cheering] >> Yikes.

>> Yikes. This guy thinks he's a knight in shining armor [laughter] and his wife says, "Hold my beer."

And she just jousted you off of your steed. [laughter] No, sir. You're done. You don't get to talk anymore. >> You got to know when to hold him and know when to fold him. Sir, >> I'm with you, brother. The gesture was right. >> But you're right. You're right. But you shouldn't have put it on a credit card. But you're still right.

>> Look at this guy. Won't let go.

[laughter] >> YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE DOING THE right thing at the time. I get it.

>> No, I agree. I I absolutely a stud.

>> And hey, is that your daughter right next to you, >> sweetheart? Listen to him. Not the credit part, but Okay, here's what I want to know. I like this relationship tension. We love it.

What's the last money fight you had? Who wants to share?

>> Dr. John's in the house right here. This lady, she was like the little kid in elementary school that was like [laughter] right here down front. Right here in the middle. Raise your hand, ma'am, so they can see you. >> Oh, I wish y'all could see his >> Is your husband with you? He looks >> Oh, he already knows what it is.

>> Somebody get him a volume. He looks like he needs it. Okay, tell us the money fight. >> The edge of my seat. >> About [clears throat] two weeks before Thanksgiving, the oven

stopped working.

And we had somebody come out who charged us $100. And he said, "Stove's fine. I

could pick it apart and find something wrong with it, but nothing wrong with it." Okay. I go to make cookies about a week after Christmas.

Burn them because I couldn't regulate the temperature. And I said, "Honey, we need a new stove." And he said, "No, we don't." And I said, "Well, you use the convection setting." >> No. [laughter] >> Oh, that's a low. >> You sound like the golfer who's always blaming the club.

>> So, I was so mad at him. I was so mad.

I'm like, "We need a stove." And I was thinking back to like when we got married and I was like, when I was single, I could just go buy a stove. I didn't have to talk to somebody about buying a stove. like I I could just go buy it. And he's like, "No, we don't need a stove." And I'm like, "Okay, I'm not baking anything. I am not baking.

I'm not b I'm not heating up a frozen pizza." >> What was your reply? Hold on. What was your reply to that?

>> We're going to go get a stove tomorrow.

[laughter] A boy. >> I had just gotten a profit sharing check from work. I had cash in the bank. I'm like, we could spend the money on >> the way to the heart is through the stomach. >> Then he went and baked something and he goes, "Okay, the stove doesn't work.

>> [laughter] >> But we got the stove. So, and you paid cash. >> Paid cash. Yeah. >> President's Day weekend. They had a great sale at Home Depot. >> So, you guys waited this start, this saga started in Thanksgiving, and you waited to February. >> He wouldn't let me buy a stone.

>> Well, to be fair, you can always go buy cookies at the grocery, but they're not the same. I get it. Well, this feels like a pretty mild fight. Dr. John, what do you see there? I think what you did actually, ma'am, is like if I could get

every couple on the planet to do what you did. It is here's what the story I'm

making up. I need a new stove and you won't let me have it. Here's how I feel about this thing. And then most importantly, here's what I'm going to do because I can only control me. So, I am not cooking anymore. And you you you let

it go and then you got your stove. So, well played. Well played. >> Well played. Absolutely. All right. Any other quick questions? We got time for one more. >> What's the dumbest thing you've ever done with money? >> Yes. Let's go. >> Somebody raise your hand >> right over here. This gentleman. We got time for just one. This gentleman in the hat. >> It better be super dumb.

>> Uh went to Las Vegas for a uh car drag

racing show with my father. >> I like how this is starting out.

>> I came back with a 2012 Camaro SS.

>> Had no intention to buy it.

>> How much? >> Uh 20 grand.

>> Gone now. Don't have it anymore. Sold it. Were you with her at the time?

>> No. No. No. No. No.

>> Because even you mentioning you bought a Camaro, she went. She >> She had her hand on her head. She was embarrassed. >> No more. Missed the car, but glad I don't have the payment anymore. >> All right. I think with James, the uh the uh fearless leader saying we have time for one more. We have another dumb thing with money. Come on. In the room this size. There it is. Back in that corner. >> Okay. I see that hand. It's another dude with a hat. This could be exciting.

>> Another Las Vegas story.

>> There's a theme.

Um, we went to Lux anniversary.

>> Hold on a second. Who are you checking with there? >> My wife. >> Oh, was she on this trip?

>> Yeah. >> Oh. >> All right. So, what happened? >> Bought a time share. [laughter]

>> Oh, no. >> We did get rid of it uh after we started following Dave Ramsey, but we got it and

paid it off. We were just paying the um maintenance. >> Well, I have something for you all. You get the stupid tax award.

[applause and cheering] I'm just gonna You come on down. I I

actually think I could throw this. Get right there on the uh I'm going to show my skills. Okay, you ready? Can you catch? Oh, boy. I'm a little nervous.

Here we go. >> Look at that throw.

>> Oh, he got it. >> Hey, that >> what they did going to Vegas and buy a time share. That's that's that's dumb. I

I I tell you a story I heard recently.

Listen, this is the dumbest thing I've heard somebody do with money. A guy

took out his girlfriend and paid for every date with a credit card and then he married her and made her pay it all back.

How cool is that? Well, I tell you, I wish that guy was here. That'd be Wouldn't that be awesome? >> We would roast him. >> Oh, man. >> That's really good. Okay, we are ready.

Our next question is David. Everybody give David a hand. Thank you, David.

>> [applause] >> David, where are you from?

>> Little town of Fairplay. >> Okay, very nice. Who do you have with you there? >> I have my teenage son, Helton.

And a few weeks ago on the show, Dr. Deloney said, "Make sure and embarrass your children as much as possible on behalf of all therapists in the country for future business." So, I drugg my son with me here. So, [laughter] >> and he looks a little angry. I'm not going to lie to you.

No, you're very cool. >> I like listening to you guys. >> You like listening to us. Thank you very much, sir.

All right. What's your question?

become, you lose motivation after a while. Starts to look daunting. Um, so my question today is is as I look at this and I try to stay motivated, um, I've got a pickup sitting in the yard that I've planned to be my 20-year pickup. It's paid off. Um,

should I part with that and try to rush the process a little further or should I just continue nose to the grindstone and and and get this done in hopefully another year? >> How much do you have left to pay off?

>> 32,000. >> How long you been chipping away at this?

>> A year. >> How long you been a single dad?

>> Eight. >> Eight years. >> How much does a truck What would it get you? >> Well, I put it up for sale and got no offers, but it's Kelly Blue Book says it should be about 32,000.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. So, it's it's worth the amount that you have left, >> but it's six years old and even though there's not many miles on it, I can't seem to find a buyer, but I I'll continue. >> Do you think it's overpriced? Do you think you're charging more than somebody would pay? >> I'm just going by Kelly Blue Book. I don't know, but I don't know if I want to part with it because I was hoping with the low miles it'll be there forever.

>> That's That's the part I'd want to play out. I'd want to play out What's your fear around that?

>> Selling it and and then what? just having to have a junker of some kind, you know, when I've got something that hopefully will last longer than the year that I'm still stuck.

>> How much longer do you have to go? Yeah, >> I really think I can be done in a year.

>> Oh, I keep the truck, homie.

>> Keep the truck. >> Yeah, >> that's something to hang on. Like, that's the finish line.

>> How great would it be to only work one job and drive that truck around knowing it has no debt on it?

>> Look at you. >> That's awesome. somebody when you hit that point in a year in you're like can I continue doing three jobs for >> how many hours you working >> I lost track over 80 usually

>> what >> I mean I don't know >> what's your son's name Helton hey Helton

this right here brother is what a man looks like okay [applause]

listen to me brother no dad is perfect I know he's not perfect [applause] but this is what you do when you got kids and you're trying to grind it out by yourself. You work three jobs and you are so tired you can't even see straight and this isn't not by your hand but it's

in your lap. You've been able to pick up some extra stuff around the house. You able to help out. Hey dad, I want to make dinner once a week. Your your brother or sister help out a little bit to take some of this from him. I want to tell you this is awesome. And brother, this is how legacy's changed. You got one more year left and this thing's over forever. Okay? Don't quit now. You're so you're crushing. [applause] Okay.

>> Um, okay. I'm bring I'm bringing this back to Jay cuz I feel like we're on the Ramsy show now cuz I'm always sell the car >> and you know this >> and you're always like a little more thoughtful about this, but I'm also going to throw something out to both of you. So, we're going to talk about you while you're standing there. Is that okay? It's going to be great.

>> I wonder if for just a short season, he

backs it down to two jobs. It's gonna push his payoff date back a little bit.

Not a lot, >> but just enough to get a little bit of breath. It's kind of like uh when I train for that half marathon that you love to do. It's that it's that little It's that little twominute break.

>> Uhhuh. >> Goes a long way. >> It does go a long way. >> And I'm not saying he should do it. I'm just thinking out >> the truck jobs and pay off in 18 months instead of >> Yeah. For a season. >> Yeah. >> For a season. >> I got to tell you, I >> What are you thinking? I like that idea.

I There's not a whole lot of sentimental value in the truck.

>> I think for the truck I think I'd let it go. Now, mathematically, he can keep it, but if I were in your shoes, bro, I'd cut it loose. >> I think so. Okay. So, >> so I'm actually with Jade cuz But I'm always scared to say it. She's so scary sometimes. No, I'm kidding. >> That's what we love about her. >> I know. She's amazing. Uh I think your problem is you're trying to sell it in fair play.

It's a tough economy right now and $32,000 for anything is tough. So, I think you got to expand your pool. And I'd find some friends in a larger area, list it on Facebook Marketplace, all the places. But I think if you get that truck in in a larger pool, you can sell it. And boy, I I think that'd be great.

You're home free, man. You're spending time with that kid. More importantly, you're smelling life and just enjoying life. I would sell the truck, but I think you got to go you got to put it out somewhere else. So, I say sell the truck, too. What are you putting towards uh if you don't mind, you don't have to say this, but what's your what's the amount of margin you're throwing extra at the debt every month?

>> So, that varies because my side hustles vary. So, sometimes it's 800 bucks, sometimes it's 3,000 or 4,000.

>> Yeah. I think if you're in that three and $4,000 range, you're going to save up for something so fast that you really want after this is all said and done.

>> I I think I'd drive a piece of crap for just a piece of life.

>> Yeah. Would you rather drive a piece of crap or work three jobs for another year? That's the question. >> I want to know what the audience thinks. If you would rather drive a piece of crap, let me hear from you.

[cheering] [applause] >> That's what I would do. >> And by the way, I want you to know I'm not just saying this. My wife Stacy, if she were here tonight, when I took her on my first date, I was driving a 1982

Mazda 626 with 274,000 miles on it. And

the cool thing about it was it was New Year's Eve. It was really cold. I went to pick her up and I could take the key out of the ignition and let it keep running. [laughter] That's how big of a piece of crap it was. And it actually was doodoo brown.

It was a turd on wheels. [laughter] And it was for a season. And I'm just saying nobody cares in fair play.

Nobody. >> No. >> And if you're embarrassed by it, park around the block. They don't know.

>> Oh, it ain't about embarrassment. It's about functional. That's all. Well, I figure you know a bunch of guys in fair play that could keep some piece of crap going for a while, >> right? >> Maybe. >> Yeah, you do. All right. Hey, this is a great Oh, I got one thing for him. This is great. I love giving out awards. You guys okay if I do it? >> Yeah, do it. Do it. >> This is a single dad.

>> Three jobs, 80 hours a week.

>> I've got a glass container of uncooked rice and beans. Sir, this is for you.

>> Come on down. This is a meal. I mean,

[applause and cheering] that's what you eat.

in the piece of crap on the way to the third job. Give him some love, everybody. This is a great dude.

[applause]

Uh, all right. Okay. So, our next question, this is fun, is brought to you by Y Refi. How many you've heard us talk about? Why refi? Have you heard about Yeah, that's great. If your private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do, Y refi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on what you can actually afford. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's yfy.com/ramsey.

It may not be available in all states.

Jade, tell everybody who's up next. Who we waiting on down here? >> All right. Up next, we got Lauren C on the mic. >> Lauren, ladies and gentlemen, give her some love. [applause] >> Lauren, where are you from?

>> I'm from Salt Lake City as well.

>> Oh, wow. Do you know the other person from Salt Lake City? >> I do not. >> That's great. >> Do you sell essential oils? >> I do not. Do you use essential oils?

>> I do not. >> You can stay. [laughter] >> What's your question, Lauren? >> So, about six months ago, I had my first

disagreement about money with my boyfriend, particularly about debt, and

it didn't go very well. Um, >> tell us what that means.

>> It was about a car lease. And I have been listening to you guys for a while. So, I was really excited. I was like, "No, no way, no chance." like, "Let's save up, pay cash." And I think I came I

know I came on a little strong. He felt a little shut down. Um, and so since then, our conversations have been a lot more surface level than I'd like them to be. Um, we're both in this. We want to further our relationship and we know that that means having deeper money conversations, but it just feels pretty daunting. So, I'm just curious if you have any advice on how to navigate having those deeper money conversations after a bad first impression.

>> I hear from you that you're taking ownership of melting this poor boy just

cuz he wanted to lease a car. Is that fair? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, the path forward is I I want

to take you to breakfast. And I say this all the time. Here's why I like breakfast. The sun is out. It's in the morning. Nobody's o like overly tired.

Okay, >> for sure he's paying. [laughter]

Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll put on a credit card and you can pay it off later. [laughter] >> I'm Dude, I'm going to kick this thing till it's just um so all right. Um

and use eye words.

>> I want to tell you I totally like came on too strong. I have a real big like

thing about debt and I just melted you and I want to say I'm sorry. And here's the magic. I learned this from my friend Jeff Jefferson Fischer.

>> Can I do this one over?

>> Can I try this again?

>> And if y'all can get that in your relationship now when you're married 10 years from now, everybody says things off the top of their head. They get mad. They get frustrated. Being able to stop and say, "I said that wrong. Can I say Can I say that over again?" and the person that you're with has enough grace to say, "Go for it, man." You'll you'll

that will cut off so many of your arguments, future resentments and fights and whatever, but you go first. Say, "I messed this up. Let me tell you debt, leasing. Here's the thing it does in my chest. Here's what debt means to me.

Here's my story growing up. Here's why I believe in this stuff. Tell me your story about money." Like Ken said, ask questions. Be invite. Be curious, not judgmental. Tell me about how you grew up with money. I just don't think it matters. I don't think it's And now you're all gonna get to the heart of these values issues, right?

>> Curiosity over judgment every time.

>> Okay. >> Unless he tries to lease a car and then you just, [laughter] >> you know, it's interesting. We get these calls nonstop on the show, right?

Getting on the same page. And it's just a constant theme. And and I'm going to tell you something. It's back to the same conversation that we've been having, but I think we got to emphasize it, right? It's like they're not going to jump on board with you until they know they want to be with you long term. Let's just start there if you're dating. >> Good point, >> right? Like let's just see if we're compatible on everything else. Now, money is massively important.

>> I would never compromise your principles on that, right? On what you believe. But it's a little early. And we're not saying that to judge you, but like let's just ease into it. >> How long have y'all been together?

>> About a year and a half.

>> Is he already looking at rings?

Yes. >> Oh, that's a little bit more advanced.

>> Yeah. >> Is he here tonight? >> No, he's not. >> Oh, that was going to be rich.

[laughter] >> I was going to get him on the mic, John.

>> Um I I like this conversation because it opens up the greater conversation of of his philosophy on debt in general. And I might try that. John, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I might back the conversation out instead of focusing on this one thing and just talk financial philosophy in general. What are your views on? And if I were you, to Ken's point, I would don't share your views yet. Seek to learn about him. Ask him a

bunch of questions and just listen.

Because I find, and I know you make fun of me when I say this, but when the love goggles are on and one person says something, the other person's like, "Oh, yeah. I agree. I feel that way, too." Right? Just let him talk and really get a sense of who he is and what he thinks.

And then you can take that information and marinate on that for as long as you need to then come back and say, "Okay, when when we spoke about this earlier, now you're repeating back a bunch of things that he said." He knows that you were listening and now you can really attack it from having chewed on it a little while versus kind of going tit for tat in the moment. >> But he's not going to be open and vulnerable unless you come and say, "Hey, I I'm I blew this. Like I attacked you and I came after you.

I went full Dave Ramsey on you and that wasn't super cool." Right. Yeah. >> And throw us under the bus. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, like I listen to this and D and it really speaks to me. And understand this.

Rachel wrote a great book. Uh and I talk about on the show all the time because I think it's so vital in relationships. Know yourself, know your money. And so one of the greatest things you guys can do right now, and I love Jay's advice to kind of step back.

house growing up.

>> He's bringing that to the marriage. By the way, he's going to bring in what his what his mom did.

>> He's going to expect you to do that. We all do this. By the way, first year of marriage is brutal. Nobody tells you about wild ride >> because you got two unique individuals bringing their environment with them.

>> I'll never forget it was like our first week back from our honeymoon. We're in our nice little apartment and I got home from work about six I think. I changed

clothes, turned on the news, was nerding out, fully expecting Stacy was making dinner. About 6:45, I'm a little hungry.

[laughter] And I'm looking, we're in a two-bedroom apartment. Where could she be? She's in the bedroom, what I call

fing around, organizing, doing all kinds of stuff. And I go, "So, uh, what's for dinner tonight?" She goes, "I don't know. I haven't even thought about it." I was like, I had to go sit in the living room and go, "What have I done?" Because in my house, Barb had dinner on

the table and Kent Senior just showed up like he was an old king. You know what I

mean? And he's a caveman. God love him.

>> Yeah. >> But that's what I was expecting. Am I right? I mean, so we're bringing this in on money and everything else. So early on before this relationship gets serious, let's just see what he thinks about money in general. And hopefully after enough questions, if he's a healthy guy, he'll start asking you what you think. >> Can I ask you one more question? Oh, go ahead.

>> Are there other things you run over him on?

>> Bring those to the table, too. You don't have to share them [laughter] in front of the internet. >> I just get really excited. Like, I learn I've learned so much from you all and I just want to >> bring that here.

And like he's always so ready for the next step in our relationship and I just want to say, well, I just want this, you know, this reassurance. So, let's talk about this thing. >> So, that's probably why he loves you because you're passionate and you're excited and you're driven. That's awesome.

I'm about to melt you with my excitement and passion or whatever, sometimes that excitement can turn into judgment. That can it turn into beating you up over stuff. Let's come up with a way that you can say let's pause, right? Let's back out for a second. Yeah. >> And man, handling this stuff now is going to be awesome. Lauren, see everybody give her some love. That was great. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Up next, we're going to go to Macy.

Macy, come on down. Oh, there she is.

Macy, hi. How are you?

>> I'm so good. How are you guys?

>> Great. What's your question? Oh, where are you from? >> Oh, I'm from um just north of Seattle in Muckle Tio, but I go to college about 2 minutes away from here. >> Oh, well, thank you for making the trick. >> Yeah. So, [laughter] um I did drive. I didn't I didn't walk, so sorry. >> No judgment. >> Um so, I am a college student, like I

said, and I work about 50 hours a week.

Um, I'm paying for college in cash and my parents are helping me some. Um, but they're the money that they had to help me recently ran out. Um, so I'm just uh

working on feeling like I'm burnt out

and um yeah uh I recently stepped back

from working on Saturdays for like a little Sabbath situation, but then I feel a little guilty for not working during that time. So I'm just wondering um yeah. Oh, also feeling left out from

like the college experience and life.

So, >> you know what? I want to recognize this young lady. She is absolutely crushing

it. [applause]

>> So, I I'm going let them jump jump in here, but I just want to ask when you took that Saturday, that Sabbath, which I think is so wise for such a young lady, amazing. How much does that if you were to do that a couple times a month?

I'm just throwing that out there, not suggesting it. H how would that would that put you behind the eightball financially? Would that put you in a bad spot? Like you're running that tight.

>> No, it wouldn't. But I just still feel like I either need to be working on homework or actually working. So, >> okay, let me challenge you. Okay, I learned this from my friend. She's a psychologist in New York. Her name is Dr. Becky Kennedy. She works with kids.

She's amazing. She taught me this recently.

Is it a violation of your core values to rest? >> No. >> Do you think people are wrong when they rest? >> No. >> Okay. Guilt is a good natural emotion

that our body feels when we violate our

own values.

I don't think what you're feeling is guilt. I think you're managing somebody else's stories and expectations that they've put on you your whole stinking life. and you're trying to make them

okay and you're paying the price for it cuz you're burning out. Whose story are

you carrying every Saturday morning just because you slept in until 8:00?

>> I feel like I just don't want to disappoint my parents. Yeah.

>> Okay.

Taking a break is good. Okay.

Codependence needing them to be okay so that you can be okay will burn you alive. Okay. So feel that on Saturday

mornings and say that's not mine to

carry. I'm going to go do something fun.

I'm going to go to the game. I'm going to go hang out with my friends. I'm in college and I'm working my butt. I'm working so hard. And rest is good,

right? Sabbath is good. Restoration is good. And here I say we applaud you. It's awesome.

>> Yeah. And I I want to add that uh friends are huge.

Friends are huge on long journeys. Do you have a couple girlfriends that you're thinking of right now that they know what you're doing? They know your schedule and they're for you. They're cheering for you. I mean, just picture one Saturday with them and just being a

young kid and enjoying life, you know,

friends, people that are for you. It will be like a jolt to your system. So,

I agree with John. I I think you have to plan this. No guilt, no shame. I mean, look at you. You have the disposition of the sun.

>> I mean, you really, doesn't she? Hey, what grade are you in? >> I am a sophomore in college, so I'm 20.

>> Okay, can I tell you this? I'll get choked up, so I don't mean to. I won't make eye contact. >> Okay.

>> With them, my my potluck freshman in

college roommate, who is now my Smart Vest Pro, who handles my family's future, is right there. Our my friend, great friend

Kristen is sitting right next to him.

Right next to Craig is his amazing wife Melissa. I met them in college your age

and to this day they're still ride or

die with me. Okay? Don't miss this opportunity to make friends that will show up when your things are low, when things are good, or when you win the YouTube lottery and you show up in their town and they come, right? Don't miss this opportunity. what Ken just said, man. Friendships and relationships are

everything. Cool.

>> Yeah. >> Take a Saturday. >> Thank you so much, >> Macy. You're awesome. Thank you. All right, up next. Oh, boy. You know what

this is? We got a couple. Gail and Eric.

Everybody give them some love as they come to the mic. [applause] Do I need to get my wig out again? Is this a settle the debate? It's not.

>> Shouldn't be. >> We hope not. >> We hope. Uhoh. [laughter] We'll divide you arms length away. Oh, wait.

>> That's right. We'll divide you. Okay.

Who's going to ask the question? Be up close to the mic so we can hear you.

>> All right. Um, how do couples continue to stay aligned over time when one spouse is more financially anxious than the other? The anxiety served us really well when we were working to build a nest egg, save money for our kids' college education, but now that we're starting to approach like retirement and thinking about spending money, it's really hard to picture spending any of the money for retirement.

>> So, what baby step are you on?

>> Um, so like like probably like seven.

>> Like seven. >> Wait a second. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

>> You know this crowd, you're aware of this [laughter] show. There's no probablys. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So we could pay off the mortgage if we wanted. >> Okay. So how much So what are you comfortable sharing? What's your nest egg situation?

>> So we we own a uh essential oils business. [laughter] >> Get out wizards. >> There you go. >> I love you, man.

That's good. That's well played. >> So we we we've been following Dave from like the really early days with like the 15%.

>> Okay. And so which one of you not that I have to ask, but this is for the show.

Which one of you is the anxious one with money? the one with the the question right on the piece of paper.

>> Well, believe me, I knew you had to get that question exactly right. And you did a good job, by the way. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay, so let's dive into this thing.

What is it that you want to do, Eric, that she doesn't want to do now that we've been gazelle intense and we're supposed to be intentional because we've been living like no one else so that we can >> and Gail is like, I'm not ready.

>> We're not. I'm not ready. >> I know you aren't. Yeah. Gail worries enough for the three of us. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> That's funny. So, what do you what do you want to do? Let's let's I want her to hear. I want you to share. You guys have talked about this. What does it look like now that you want to do? And she's like, "No, we're not spending a nickel on this." >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's probably just being a little bit more extravagant with some of the money. Uh >> well, relax, dude. You only have $5 million.

>> Yeah. And we want to hear specifics.

>> I think he's scared. If I can I can.

Yeah. If you're scared, can you blink twice?

>> He's scared. He just said it, John. He's terrified.

>> Gail, >> I I'm very sorry. [laughter] >> Don't apologize to me. Apologize to him.

>> Gail, what's what's your what's your what's your core fear >> that we run out >> of of But but okay, take me to take me

to the table when he pulls up the the

laptop and says, "Honey, we're we're out. We're out. Take me to that table. What's

that fear? >> That we're out of money.

>> That's That's the top. Get beneath that.

What is that fear?

>> Uh that like we would be broke and then we'd be like a like a burden on our children. >> You have a picture in your >> You got it. Yes. >> You're a burden on your children. >> Yes. >> Tell me about that.

>> I would never want to be a burden on our children. We've worked so hard. >> How would you be a burden on them? >> We've worked so hard to No. How would you be a burden on him? >> By not having any money >> and then what?

>> And then failing. Yes.

>> Where have you seen that story in your life?

>> Um I guess like my like my

>> Yeah. Say >> I was trying to think like >> just say it. We know. Go ahead. >> Like like my like my like my parents did great and they saved like so much money and worked so hard to like make sure that they wouldn't be a burden. So, I feel like I have to do the same.

>> So, you picked up all of their fear and

you thought, "This is how I'm supposed to act."

>> That makes a lot of sense. Yes.

[laughter] >> I want to know. >> And then poor Eric's along for the ride.

>> I'd love to know what actions need to play take I I want you to play it out in order. Which actions have to take place that you would blow through $5 million?

>> The pizza oven's going to take us out.

And truly like I I I would love for you to >> to write those things out, >> okay? >> And look at them logically and go, are these rational or irrational?

>> Okay, >> I would love for you to do that because a the truth I mean, we're laughing at it, but a pizza oven's not going to take you out. >> And and 20 pizza ovens are not going to take you out. >> Two homes in Esta's Park and you'll still have $2 million left.

>> Hey, uh Eric, what do you do for a living and how much do you make? Uh, so I'm a federal government, a a humble civil servant, I should say. Uh, >> do you both work? >> Yes. >> Combined income? >> 600.

>> Stop it. Okay. [laughter] No, that >> y'all need to stop. >> No. No. I'm >> I mean, okay, we're going to get real for a second. All right, Eric, I'm putting you on the spot and I'm as serious as a heart attack. I want you to look at her, not us, >> and I want you to tell her something that you really want to do that's going to cost some money. And And Gail, I

don't want you to say anything. I'm dead serious. Go for it.

>> Corvette, definitely. >> No. No. Say the mic. Say it in the mic.

Go ahead. >> A Corvette. >> A Corvette. And how much would said Corvette set you back? Cuz don't tell me you don't know. You look at it when she's not in the living room. >> So, it's the new one coming out in What's that going to cost? Yeah, we'll budget 140. How about that?

>> 140. Look at Gail right now. She's breaking out in hives. >> Meanwhile, Meanwhile, you have this I know you have cash aside from the 500 from the 5 million. How much is just sitting in cash?

>> Like 200 from an emergency.

>> Okay. [laughter] A Corvette emergency.

>> No, not that. No, not that emergency.

>> She's angry. >> I KNOW. NO WONDER HE BLINKS TWICE.

>> SO, HERE, LISTEN. If you were to go, have you ever seen somebody for anxiety?

>> No. No. I like myself the way I am.

[laughter] >> Wow. You know what? I actually believe you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]

>> Some people say that and I go, "Yeah, that's not real. Eric, we [laughter] tried." >> Here's the thing. Um Yeah. It it's it's

they they call it exposure. Okay. The

path to stop this nuclear reactor in the

middle of your chest. >> Uhhuh. >> Okay. Is you have to practice. You have to go right through the middle of it.

And so what that means is you have to look at data and see $140,000 we could

write a check and literally we would not feel it. >> We wouldn't feel it. Nothing in our life would change at all except my husband would get these really goofy sunglasses

and cruise around town in his new car

and I'd probably look pretty cool sitting next to him in it. Right? That is the only thing that would change in your life. And I want you to feel that feeling and then go do the next thing.

Right? Because here's what you're doing.

You're you're there will never be enough for you to quote unquote feel safe until you go right through the middle of the word what's enough because you're going to get 10 million and then you're going to be like well I don't know let's get right it will that finish line will never move and you're going to be 85 years old and you're going to have a big retirement account and you're going to have a really terrified husband sitting in a rocking chair on the other side of your porch. Right. He's so repressed that when I asked him to share something, he went to the top of the list and said, " $140,000 car." Let's Let's do a $25,000 vacation.

Can we do that? And you spent a lot of time, ma'am, in the spa. All right. Hey, I got something for you.

You're the ultimate nerd. Here's some nerd gl Oh, I'm dropping my pack.

>> I got you. I got you. >> Come on down and get your nerd glasses.

There you go. You've been a good sport.

There you go. [applause]

There you go. Oh boy. Thank you, Jade.

All right, who do we have next? We have Christina up next. Let's get Christina down to the mic. Everybody give Christina a hand. There she is.

[applause] >> So, I have to defend his honor.

>> Who's >> Oh, it's the wife.

>> It's the credit card guy. Figures he would send you to fight his battles for him. >> He's filming. >> No, listen to this. This man. So when I

met him, he had a lot of credit card debt. He did want to buy every meal for me, which is noble. When I told him, "Hey, we should do the Dave Ramsey plan

type of thing." I didn't really say it in that way. I kind of was like, "Hey, we should do this." And he was like, "Okay." And then he started listening to Dave Ramsey and he's like, "We should do this." I was like, "Yeah." So he stopped

all of his credit cards. He turned his spending completely around. We have paid off probably over $100,000 since we got

married >> three years ago now.

>> We have fostered four children and we have had two more babies. >> Oh, wow. >> And he works his butt off. And >> what's his name? >> His name is Mason. >> Mason. >> He's amazing. I just needed you. Oh, by the way, that's my daughter also from another marriage, but he asked her permission to marry me. So, if you want to know why I married this amazing >> Mason,

[applause] >> you get the hardcore rockstar award.

>> There he is. He's been a great sport.

>> He is >> so fun. You're an awesome lady. Thanks for sharing that. >> Wanted to let you know. >> I love it. >> You married well, brother.

>> Mason, you're a good sport. This is what happens when you speak up at a live event. You know, [laughter] let this be a lesson to you. There it is. is the you rock award. Is that what that is, John?

>> Yes. >> Yes. Okay, great. [applause]

>> Dude, there's a couple of uh in our culture, dude, men get kind of kicked a

lot and there's >> some several pretty I mean, there's some pretty lame ones. I can see them, but there's some amazing men in this audience tonight, man. Um it's pretty impressive. It's awesome. >> Thank you, John. I appreciate those kind words. >> Yeah, you do.

Oh, you weren't talking about me. >> No. >> Okay, John, you're up next.

>> All right, everybody, uh, raise your hand in this room if somebody depends on

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>> All right. Fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen, John Deloney, Jade War, >> I would love for you to share the dumbest thing you've ever done with money. >> I don't know. There's a lot of dumb things. I want a good one. I want a good one. >> Uh, gambling, I suppose.

>> Oh, tell me about this. >> Um, just, you know, casinos and >> I do a lot of dumb things with money.

>> Really? [music] >> Is this a daily thing? >> I like to spend out of my means. A lot of online shopping. I'm one of the people that if I see an ad on Instagram for anything cute, I'm just going to add to cart, buy immediately. [music] Recently, it's sent to my children $2,000 for a car he did not get.

>> Uh-oh. We'll keep it G-rated and just uh

credit card debt. >> I spent $600 on Hot Wheels one time.

>> Honestly, move here. It's kind of expensive, but you know, I'm getting myself back up. I'm getting myself back up. >> Probably get my belly button tattooed.

>> Wow, that feels painful. Can we take a look at that? >> Yeah, that sucks. >> Okay. >> Wow. [music] Look at that. How long does that take? >> It took about I think 2 and 1/2, 3 hours. >> Wow. And how much did that cost? >> 300 400 bucks. >> Do you [music] think it would be dumb for me to spend any amount of money on a tattoo? >> No. >> Look at me. Do you think I could pull a tattoo off? Absolutely, man.

>> Uh so up next we have uh Aaron. But

before we get to Aaron, I want to remind everybody this whole night brought to you by our friends at Fair Winds Credit Union. Thank you so much to Fairwinds.

All right, let's go to Aaron. Is this you, Aaron? Hi. How are you?

>> Hi. >> Where are you from? >> Um I'm originally from Chicago, but I've lived in Denver since 2001.

>> Okay. What's your question? >> Um well, I have been following the Ramsay program for about a year and a half. I'm on baby step six and um I

noticed you guys do a lot of events for like couples like love and marriage and things like that and I was wondering uh as a financially responsible single person if you're ever going to do singles events.

>> Oh boy, John, that's like your Super Bowl event, isn't it?

>> What do you think about that?

>> I think we might have done it tonight.

>> I know. We started, didn't we?

[laughter] >> She wants to finish that. No.

>> Who do you have your eye on?

>> I did not I only saw a back of heads.

>> Listen, before this thing started, we got to talk to um a select group of this

audience.

>> There's a single guy in here. He started his own business and his mom is here

now. He's with a woman, but they're not together. >> Oh, [laughter] >> they made it very clear they're just co-workers. He might be right here on

the front row.

>> I would like to interview his mother first. >> Well, you just made that real weird.

>> Yeah, >> I do think this is fun. Uh, I will tell you, if there is a single guy in this audience that would like to meet Aaron,

now is your moment.

>> Oh my god. >> Do we have a brave soul? I won't linger.

>> Aaron, just relax. I got this.

[laughter] We need like some romantic music.

>> Well, you know, I might break out of some Barry White if somebody makes a move. Anybody going once, twice?

>> Wait a second. I see movement over here.

What is happening? >> They're pointing.

>> This guy, he does not look receptive.

Okay. All right, sir. I can tell you're very uncomfortable right now. >> He He lives in Fair Play, though. Isn't that >> you know him? >> Is that who you're pointing to? No, the the guy with the truck.

>> He has an AWESOME PAID OFF TRUCK.

>> BUT HE LIVES IN Fair Play. OH, THE SINGLE DAD. OKAY, I didn't see you there. It's dark. Oh, boy. [laughter] This would make my career if we pulled this off. All right. Any any single guy that wants to meet Aaron and if she's willing to go on a date with you, Ramsey Solutions will pay for the first date.

You just got to tell our team. >> We'll pick somewhere nice. >> That's the best I can do. [laughter] And they're paying cuz we're paying. You know what I'm saying? >> I love that. >> We'll give them an envelope [laughter] >> just to see if they're the real deal.

You know what I mean? The guy's got to break it out, get his 20s. >> Oh gosh, that brings up another question. >> Oh, go. You go on a date and the guy busts out coupons.

>> Yes. >> Is this good or is this bad? This is fine. This is fine for you.

>> That is instantaneous. Bye, Felicia. We gone. [laughter] >> Or how does Dave >> See you later, Felicia. >> This how Dave says it on the air.

>> See you later, Felicia.

>> This is what when I make fun of Dave, this is what he says. Hold on. Let me see if I can get this. >> Shut up, Ken. [laughter] >> Okay, Erin. I don't know. It's not a part of John's master plan. It doesn't >> We won't probably put it on your list.

>> We'll put on a list. Um I'm afraid of

singles events because

it's a mixture of very awesome people.

And >> that's life. >> Not [laughter] >> at least everybody following Ramsay if you guys do the events. >> Yeah. You know, I just realized something. For decades, three plus decades, Dave has said, "Be like weird people." And if you get a bunch of weird people, it's like a dog whistle singles cruise. >> Oh, Lord have mercy. I'm not going on that one. >> Now you're talking. >> I'm not going on that one. [laughter] Are you going to anchor that one?

>> Zero chance. George Camel will though.

>> Oh, that's fun. You're a great sport.

Everybody give Aaron some love. Thank you. [applause] All right, I do want to ask James Charles a question really quick. What if we did a singles hour on the show and we only took calls from singles about money and dating?

What do you think? Do we ever get enough? >> I think it have to be video calls to make it really and we would post their uh cell number on YouTube in the lower third. >> James did not agree to that.

>> I think if if anyone's going to create like a sing like a Ramsay dating app, I think it would be your brand, John. No question. >> I think we need to I think we need to figure this out. >> I think it's a whiteboard session.

>> I think we need to figure >> We owe Aaron that. At least >> we do.

>> I think that's a great filter it. All these dating apps filter for height and how much money do you make. We just want to know if you owe anybody any money.

>> Yeah. No photos. >> No, just baby step. You know, I think

you got to see if they match on baby steps and values and then we show them the photos. That makes it interesting.

It's probably a horrible idea, but I'm just fresh. I'm ideating right now. It's off the cuff. [laughter] All right, we'll move on. WHERE IS OH, NELSON IS THERE. EVERYBODY give Nelson some love. [cheering] Nelson,

where are you from, sir?

>> Uh, Gley, Colorado. >> Get close to that mic. Yeah.

>> Oh, Greley's in the house. Are these your family members? >> No, no, [laughter] no. Okay, great. They are now.

>> Are you single? >> Uh, no. No. My girlfriend's here. Yeah.

>> Oh, that's awkward. Okay, that's great.

[laughter] How How long have you been in the Ramsay gang?

>> I'm not going to lie. Um, I just found you guys to be honest. And it's through my girlfriend. >> Where is your girlfriend? >> Right here. Right. >> She was the progressive young lady that said she should pay. Did you ask him out? >> Yeah, she did. >> And did she pay? >> Uh, no. No. I So, [laughter] okay.

>> Uhoh. >> Yeah. So she she paid because she's the one that asked me out. So >> I feel like you changed your answer there in front of all of us.

>> Maybe. >> Have you ever done Have you ever run for office or anything like that?

>> You'd be great. >> You would be amazing at it. [laughter] >> You'd be great. Anyway, what's your question? >> Uh about a year ago, I was actually in an accident um a car accident. A guy on

meth rear ended me. >> Oh no. Glad you're okay, man.

>> Yeah. Sent me to the hospital and everything. Uh but because of that um

yeah I didn't know what I was going to do with my life at that point. Uh things kind of changed. I was in flight school uh through my community college and because of the concussion and everything like that unfortunately I couldn't um I couldn't continue. >> Oh man. So sorry about that.

>> It's and it's one of those things to where um she helped me through like to

change my life or help me change my life. And so while I was home, um, she

kind of got me with you guys. And my question really is, I'm getting a large

settlement through the accident. Um, I

don't know much about finance. I'm not going to lie. And I don't really know what to do like the first steps on with this large chunk of money that I've never had this much money before. What should I do with it or how should I invest it? >> Do you feel comfortable saying the chunk of money? >> Yeah. So, right now, my bank account's sitting at about $60,000.

>> Okay. And that's the only chunk. Will there be more in dispersements or that's it? >> That's the total right there. >> Okay. Where are you in the baby steps?

Are you familiar? >> Uh, not too much. She was showing me, but not really. >> Okay, great. >> She's saying four. >> Just four. No debt.

>> Yeah. So, because of the accident, the first round of settlement, um, she convinced me you should just pay off all your debt. You're going to zero everything out. Uh you'll have no money in your bank account, but you'll have no debt at all. >> And how much was that that you paid off?

>> Um about 3540,000.

>> Okay. So you paid that off. Were you able to set some money aside for baby step three like an emergency fund?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So this money essentially there it's not earmarked for anything. You've started investing 15%.

>> Well, so yeah, I I'm trying to figure out exactly like um to be honest what to

do with it. Are you able Are you able to work now? >> Yes. >> Okay. Are you going to have lingering recurring health issues that this money is going to be you're going to need it down the road? >> The VA has been able to help me with it.

>> Okay. >> Cool. So, what's the living situation?

Are you renting? Are you thinking of buying? That's what I'm looking at with this money first off. >> Uh we're currently just renting. Uh she

uh actually is um well, I don't want to steal her thunder or anything like that, but we've both been kind of um um slowly

putting our finances together. Okay. I'd probably keep this money in a high yield for a while. It It sounds like the next thing on your list is probably going to be a residence of your own. Okay.

>> And you're going to want a down payment for that. >> I'm guessing 60 is a great place to start. I don't know what real estate's going for around here, average price, but my guess is it's pretty pretty >> a lot of chuckles from the Gley factory.

[laughter] >> My guess is it's rather high. Um >> a little steep. >> Yeah, a little steep. Exactly.

That's what I'd be thinking of. And I'm guessing it's shorter than a 5year horizon. >> Yes. >> Yeah.

>> So, yeah, I'd keep it there. Um, the hard part is going to be you were given a windfall and that and that's what caused you to pay off your debt. >> And for most of us, maybe not most of us, for a lot of us, the way we pay off our debt is we go, "Oh, the way I was living wasn't working for me. It wasn't sustainable.

I have to change my ways." and then we put in a bunch of effort to change that for you. You're going to have to make sure that you have had that aha moment.

going to get pled away on the same things that the the original $30,000. Do you see what I'm saying? So, that's going to be your personal homework that you're going to have to work through. Okay. >> Um, but I think you've got it.

>> One thing I heard, John, I heard you guys are slowly combining finances.

>> Mhm. >> But you're not married. >> No. Oh, so we've been uh dating since 2022.

>> Also, still not married.

>> Wrap it up. Take4 to $8,000 and put

[laughter] >> Look, she just looked at him. >> Yeah, I know. >> She's like, I've been telling him. >> So, here's the thing. None of us would

have a job. >> Mhm. >> If everyone's plans worked out. You're up here because you were sitting at a stoplight and somebody changed your life like this, right? And so

I'm going to strongly recommend y'all

been together for a long time. She's a pretty amazing woman. She's walked with you emotionally, physically, like spirit. Like she's with you, right? Ride or die. Okay. A What are you waiting for, man? And B. Um,

yet even though I would not combine

finances until you are officially married, I wouldn't buy a house together unless you're married.

>> Because here's the thing. I know y'all like it would never happen to us. The number of calls we've taken over the years of we were engaged for four years, we were together for this long and then something happened and we broke up and we don't have the legal protection to untangle everything. And so I wouldn't

combine your money. I'd keep your money separate from hers until y'all are married. And when you the day you get married, you get one checking account.

Everything goes in one. We're not going to slowly combine. Dude, we're getting married. We're going to put this thing in here and then we're going to do ride or die till death do us a part.

>> Okay. >> Right. Is that cool? >> That's awesome. >> Uh, one thing, uh, if it's okay with you guys, uh, can I get her up here real quick? >> No. No. It's not like that. Please tell me. >> MY HEART. MY HEART.

>> But what's the matter with you?

>> Well, no. It's not, >> dude. That is not a cool head fake.

[laughter] Oh man, >> bless her heart. >> I thought it was about to happen. >> Me, too. >> I was going to sing. >> I was getting my Barry White voice ready. [laughter] >> Okay, Nelson, what's happening right now? >> Uh, so we were trying to visit you and uh visit the show in Nashville.

Unfortunately, it was something really big to her. Uh, she's been going through a very um like when like you said, like

this all this money and everything came in my lap, I was able to pay off debt for her. She's been fighting she's been fighting in paying off uh debt slowly and slowly. Um she applied to to try to

do um uh you know the death free scream

on your show >> and um yeah I just wanted to give her

that opportunity if that's okay.

>> What say you can?

>> Well Nelson you put me in a tough spot buddy. [laughter] >> I'll trade you a scream for a will you marry me.

[cheering]

Wow.

>> Did I do that, James? >> I just made things real weird. Have you ever >> Did you just say I'll take that? >> Did you say that? >> Wait a second. >> As in right now. >> I'll take that. >> Okay. Get down on one knee.

>> Katie, let Katie get up there. >> Wait a minute. I I got to get my phone out. Can I tape it? >> Yeah. Can we get your phones out? This is exciting. >> I got to get my I got to get my phone.

>> Katie's going to hold the mic for you, Nelson. Do it right, my man. Get down on one knee. Oh boy.

>> So Roy, um you've been everything to me.

Um I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. You've changed my life in ways that

I never thought that was possible. Um

and um [clears throat] yeah, I never thought I never thought I would be in a situation to where I could um love

someone as much as you. And um I want to

know will you marry me? [cheering]

[applause and cheering]

>> She said yes, ladies and gentlemen.

[applause] [cheering] Wow.

>> [applause]

>> Nelson. Nelson, while she gathers herself, tell us your your your bride to be's name. >> What is her name? >> Uh, Roy Ogden. >> Roy. >> Yes. >> Okay, let's give the mic to Royce. Roy,

what is going through your head right now? Tell us.

>> I wasn't expecting any of this.

>> No. [laughter] Hey, neither was John. That's the best part.

That never works. >> That never works. I'm stunned right now.

Okay, we're going to James, we're going to pay this off. So, you guys know how we do this on the show. This is going to be amazing. Okay, Royce, how much debt have you paid off in how long? Tell us your story. >> I paid off about $35,000 worth of debt.

>> In how long? >> Uh 24 months. >> 24 months. >> Awesome. >> That's awesome.

Tell us what the debt was. What kind of debt was it? >> It was primarily credit card debt. um

and a little bit of medical debt. And while paying off all of this debt, I stopped twice to cash cash flow to

emergencies with my health, uh totaling

about $25,000.

>> Wow. >> You're so amazing. [applause]

What happened 24 months ago where you said, "This is it. I'm getting debtree." What happened? I was watching a lot of

the financial YouTube videos trying to figure out what I was doing with my life. I had just gotten off a work injury and it was just so hard to make ends meet on only 40 hours a week, which is insane.

Um, once I sat down and I did the math, I realized I was hemorrhaging about $400 or $500 a month just because of my debt payments. And if I hadn't had them, my work injury wouldn't have ever been an issue. >> Wow.

35,000 20 plus 25 that's 60 grand and

plus you cash I mean it's unbelievable all right so for people who are sitting in this room and who are watching on YouTube they're blown away by what's just happened what would you say to them is the key to getting out of debt [snorts] >> I think the key is probably setting the

goal and walking yourself through getting there um there were a lot of points where it's it felt like I just wasn't making any progress and it was

hard and the medical issues kept feeling like setbacks, but really they um it was

an absolute blessing to be able to get through them cash flowing instead of taking out any more debt.

>> Love it. And during this time, you were also loving and honoring a veteran who

was struggling with his health too, right? >> Yes. It was because of going through all of this and the Ramsay process. It was about halfway through this that his emergency happened. >> You're an amazing woman.

>> Yeah. a question. Both of them possible.

>> It's awesome.

[applause] >> Having all of these changes took it from an emergency to an inconvenience.

>> Awesome. All right, Royce, you ready to do your debtree scream? I know you couldn't make it to Nashville. We're going to do it right here. And these people are going to lose their ever loving minds. Are you ready?

>> Do I hold the mic away or do I >> give it all you got? Rick, you do Hey, listen. You do your screen the way you want to do it. I'm going to do a version of it. Okay, I'm going to lead you through this. Where are you from?

>> I'm from Gley, Colorado. >> Okay, here we go. So, we got Royce from Gley, Colorado. She paid off $35,000

in 24 months while cash flowing another

25 with health emergencies, dragging

poor Nelson along. God bless his heart.

She's helping him. She's an amazing woman. You are the poster child for

anybody who lays eyes or their ears on this show. You can do it and they can do it. Let's hear your debtree scream.

Count it down.

>> Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

[applause]

Wow.

[applause]

Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay, we're going to keep this momentum going.

We didn't plan for that, but we did plan for this. And you know what's great? I see women snotting all over themselves. Men are wiping their eyes.

You two are such great sports. Thank you for that. Okay, here's what we're going to do. Okay, we thought it'd be fun.

Jade, get your calculator out cuz we're going to do something. Here's what we want to know. If you have become debtree in the last year, will you stand up? We're going to do a group debtree scream.

If you've paid off, if you've become debtree in the last year, stand up all around the building, wherever you are, stand up. If you've become debtree in the last year.

>> Yeah, you can clap for him. That's cool.

Look at this.

All right. So, here's what we're going to do. Jade's got her calculator. James is backing her up. I'm going to go around the room and we're just going to quickly get the amount that you paid off. Okay. Is there anybody up in the upper deck? >> I see. Okay. How much did you pay off?

>> 268. 268,000.

Excellent. Anybody else up top?

>> 40,000. >> 40,000.

And anybody else up there?

>> 36,000. >> 36,000.

>> Got it. >> Did I get everybody up there?

>> 7500.

>> 75,000. >> Dang, son. >> Are you up to date on that? >> I got it. >> Anybody else up top?

>> Okay. Now, we'll come over here. And I don't think I see Okay, ma'am. Your number. >> 47,000. 47,000, sir.

>> About 300. >> 300,000.

Amazing. All right. Next. Right back here. This couple right here, ma'am in the white coat and the guy with the hat.

>> 100. >> 100,000. Okay. Couple right. Sit down.

Couple right in front of them.

>> 28,000. >> 28,000. Ma'am, right here.

>> 55,94.

>> We'll round it up to 56,000.

>> No, I got it. 55,931.

>> Don't mess with Jade. Okay, ma'am. Right here. >> 90,000. >> 90,000.

Uh, right here.

>> You paid off the house.

>> Paid off the house. >> 60. >> 60,000.

>> Okay, great. And oh, we already got yours, but let's get the number. 35,000 for Royce.

>> This couple >> 235,000. Deb, our favorite person in the world. >> 102,000. And right here in front

>> 120. Did I miss Oh, sorry.

cash flowing about $50.

>> Wow. I'm gonna put it at 150 then.

>> We'll go 150. Way to go. Is that everybody?

>> All right, Jade and James, we'll check your T. What do you got?

>> Announce it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. Drum roll, please. In the last

year, this room has paid off. That's

correct. You say it.

>> 1.741 million. How about that?

>> Wow. >> So, now you can stand back up.

>> Wow. >> For those of you that sat down, now you can stand back up. You've paid off debt in the last year. And John's got a fun idea. >> Yeah. All right. So, um, anybody else in the room who has debtree who wants to

join us in this debtree scream? Stand up. Everybody. Everybody. No conditions.

Debtree all around the house. Up and down. Let's do a group debtree scream.

John, would you like to count us down from three? Let's I'm going to do it.

>> Don't be the weird people that count up.

>> No. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. It's so true.

>> Denver, Colorado, you paid off $1.7

million. Plus everybody else who stood up here. Let's count it down and do a giant Denver debtfree scream. Three,

two, one.

>> Yes. Cheer for yourself.

How about that?

>> Wow. >> So fun. >> Congratulations. >> You guys are amazing. Uh hey, uh before

we sign off tonight, we'll have a final word of encouragement, but I want to do something we did in Charlotte. Uh it's so amazing to get out from Nashville, our beautiful headquarters, and get out on the road and do the show. But we couldn't do this. We are sitting and standing on the shoulders of an amazing team. If you're on the Ramsay team, uh would you stand up? or if they're behind cameras, would you give some love to our amazing crew, James Childs, Chris Wright, led our entire team? These men and women are fantastic. [applause]

So, I just want to say thank you to them.

Final word, 30 seconds from your heart to these people, John, what's on your heart for them? >> Um, it's easy to get stuck in you owe

money. Childhood was hard. You got you

got debt payments. You got car wrecks.

Listen to me. You are worth the work to

be well. You're worth the work. And it's hard. And it's long. And like you, you

amazing single father with with the awesome truck that you're probably going to sell even though I'd probably keep.

Listen, you're worth the grind. You're worth the work. You're worth being free. Thank you

for being here tonight.

>> That's so good. [applause]

I'm just reflecting back on all the stories that we heard tonight and all of you were so brave to share with us and I'm so grateful that you trusted us with your stories and I just I mean my favorite verse Galatians 6:9 you know don't grow weary and welloing at the right time at the proper time you'll reap a harvest of blessing if you don't give up if you don't faint. I'm thinking about Royce. I'm thinking about our friend who was smiling like the sun who was working so so hard. I'm thinking about that single dad.

I'm thinking about all those stories tonight.

harvest if you don't give up, if you don't faint. Please don't give up.

Please keep going. I I just know it. You guys have such a wonderful, beautiful future in front of all of you. Keep going.

[applause] >> Hey, Ken, before you give your last words, Nelson Royce, I'd like y'all to be my guest in October for the Money and Marriage Conference in Nashville. If y'all can make it there, I'll pay for your your tickets. Okay, [applause] cool.

Very nice. Well, John, Jade, uh, and to

those of you in the room and those of you watching on YouTube, wherever you're watching, however you're watching, the word that keeps popping up to me tonight as I've just been able to observe is strength.

Just tremendous strength. And I think that's what I'd want to share with you. You know, uh there's so many stories in this room and of people that are watching and we'll never hear those stories, but the commonality between

anybody that wins with money is strength. The

journey is so very difficult. No matter

how much debt you're paying off, whether it's 20,000 or 200,000, we've had people on the air that have paid off $2 million.

The struggle is absolutely real, but you

have the strength to do it. And I'm

reminded of story after story after

story in the time that I've had to sit on the Ramsay Show and listen to everyday women and men who have just overcome so much to get peace. And for

those of you that are still on the journey, you didn't stand up tonight. I don't want you to feel left out. I want you to feel inspired by looking at the men and women around you who stood up.

The men and women that you saw on camera as you were watching on YouTube, you're listening, however you're taking this night in. I want you to understand that there's no difference between them and you. You can do it. You have the

strength to do it. Focus on your life,

nobody else's life. Focus on what you can do in the moment. One foot forward

every day. Just one foot. and keep the

eye on the prize. As Philippians said,

I'm looking at the finish line. What does the finish line look like for you?

Where do you want to be? Keep it top of mind and you can win. And I'm telling you, we believe in you. On behalf of the

over a thousand Ramsay Solutions teammates that are supporting us back in Nashville, on behalf of Dave Ramsey, who couldn't be with us here tonight, on behalf of my colleagues, Dr. John Deloney and Jade Warshaw, I want you to know we love you. We appreciate you. We believe in you. We're behind you. You can do this. Thank you guys. You've been an amazing crowd. Thank you. [applause]

---

## 229. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 28, 2024


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:06 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the Ramy show where

we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw number one

best-selling author Ramsey personal my

co-host today open phones at

88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your money Kurt starts Us

in New Jersey hey Kurt what's

up hi how's it going Dave better than I

deserve man how can I help um I have a little bit of a business question so I have 57k in

personal debt um I started my business

less than a year ago I'm I've been

pulling out everything that I make from the business business all my profits in

order to pay off my personal debt I have

no business debt um I was just kind of

wondering I feel like I'm not able to grow the business because I don't have

retained earnings I don't feel comfortable hiring somebody without retained earnings um and I I was

wondering too if I should keep some retained earnings just to maintain overhead um what would you suggest in

terms of how I should go about that yeah

I would I would um you know you can what

how much have you pulled out of the business in a year what are you

making um so year to date I made about

80k way to go I would say my profit

margin is about 80% good for I've been

pulling out everything a little bit of a

tidbit too is I have a four-week old right now oh wow that's fun

congratulations what what kind of business did you open uh Physical Therapy I'm a physical

therapist wow good for you yeah okay

what we teach in onree leadership is

that you pay yourself a living wage or

you pay yourself a salary an amount that

you're comfortable with that you can

make progress on the the goals at home

which would include debt um you don't

have any debt at the business so you

could just say I'm going to take a

percentage of profit 10% 15% 20%

something like that and every month and

hold that as retained earnings and take everything else home and that way your retained earnings

grow as fast as your they grow as a

percentage of profits so as your profit grow your retained earnings

grow okay yeah that makes me feel a lot

more comfortable then yeah I mean if you had 8,000 bucks laying over there because you did 10% or you had 16,000 L

over there because you did 20% you've be in really really good shape yeah so then it's definitely more

than the 1,000 that would keep in for

exact the security exactly this is the

different formula because it's business that we're dealing with but yeah that's what we teach Entre leaders so what we do at ramsy and we laughingly call it

the Sharon fund because I was draining

everything out of here and then griping

about cash flow problems all the time

and Sharon's like well you you you're

not even doing what you teach you don't have an emergency fund you goober you're a hypocrite and I'm like oh God she's

right again so we called it the Sharon

fund when we first start doing it and so

you know it's it's we've been taking a

percentage of profits from Day from the

day that I discovered that my wife is

brilliant you know on so yeah well when

Sam and I started our business it was a

similar thing we had we still had about

$240 some odd, that we were paying off

and I mean we drained all the profits paid off and the the most painful part was you know you're taking this payroll and then you're turn around paying taxes on it yep and then you're using it to pay off all this debt and but for us it

felt a little different because it was just the two of us at the time we had very low overhead there wasn't a lot of risk involved and so yeah and make sure

whatever you're taking home that you're withholding on it so that you can do your quarterly estimates you don't want to get behind with the KGB I mean the

IRS yeah no yeah yeah definitely yeah

okay so as long as you're doing that yeah I just take pick a percentage I don't care my recommendation would be 10

to 20 somewhere in that range of net

profits and each month when you close your books go Boop going to set that aside over here take everything else home and attack the 57 and get done with

it and you know be able to buy diapers

for the four-week hold yeah everything works very cool good stuff man

congratulations sound like you got it going I'm proud of you Allan in Fort

Worth hey Alan how are you oh I'm doing

well sir thank you so much for taking my call sure how can we help well so uh

here's the detail um so my wife and I

were in baby step two and uh we're just

trying to figure out when does it makes sense to pause baby step two in order to

save for a beater car uh yeah what are

you talking about why why you don't have a car or what's the situation so the

situation is uh we're I have a car now

got a big well not a big loan on it it's

$24,000 and you know we're I guess we're

trying to do the whole gazelle intense

thing and I'm just thinking well oh if

you got a beater you would sell the 24

yes sir okay what what's your household

income uh so all said uh so about 6,000

months from my primary job I have a secondary job I get maybe 500 a month and then VA disability so um around 75

100 a month as take home okay all right

and so you have that car and it's worth

is it worth around the 24 or what's it worth it is so it's uh looked at Kelly

Blue Book and right now I it looks like

it's selling for about 225 but um okay

what's the other car uh that that's it that's all I mean

that's that's you have one car I'm sorry

we have another car which what's the other car uh Honda Civic okay what's it

worth well one's like eight probably

worth 8,000 that's no other car yeah there's two rules of thumb we use when someone asks this question number one

don't have vehicles ever in your life

that have Motors and wheels anything

with a motor or wheel added together

that equal more than about half your annual income because you have too much tied up in things going down in value agreed you're not violating that one

okay okay and the second one is can we be debt free everything with the house in around two years so we know we got 24

in debt what other debt have you got uh

about 3,000 credit card debt and that's

that's all the debt you like the

car it is a good car I mean then pay it

off okay you can be debt-free inside of

two years easy probably about 18 months or less

you're making 90 we need to pay off 25

Grand 26 Grand you can do that okay yeah

I agree yeah so yeah so you can do it

inside of two years and the total is less than a half your annual income that's the to tests that we use the

means test if you will to do that and

folks let me got tell you that's not a

um biblical thing in terms of it's not

in the Bible cuz yeah um I mean the only

thing that's in the Bible is the Honda Accord because Jesus said they were all in one Accord but um but other none of

the rest of them are in the Bible so you

just add it all up and uh the problem is

that we all in America love cars uh some

people love cars cuz they're redneck like me and they want a muffler some people like a battery called a Tesla

some people like like Rachel and George they want to catch fire to themselves and um and then some people like my wife

likes a a nice car cuz she thinks it's a

large purse and so um but that you know we

like cars in America and the stupid things go down in value and when you take 60 or

$70,000 and you turn it into

$10,000 this is not a wealth building

methodology and and it's the largest

thing Americans buy that goes down in value because you are what you drive in

America it's such an identity piece MH

and man it's um I never thought about

that Georgia is a battery you are what you drive yeah I'm

a loud Muffler so who knew that's funny

yeah but the uh um my neighbor said

there they goes I know when you go to

work so how do you know when I go to work he goes I can hear it you're so

that's who I'm hearing

driving driving down the road oh my gosh

good to know uh once a redneck always a redneck this is the ramsy [Music]

[Music]

show you know one of the first things I

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[Music]

Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us

guys we appreciate you being with us hey

the best way to get a sense of

power a sense of dignity a sense of

sustainability with your money is by

telling it what to do and instead of wondering where it went it's called a budget and when you write down or you

use every dollar of the budgeting app and have a plan for your money every month you'll feel like you got a raise

because you've been wasting so much with disorganization and Chaos me too I used

to do that too I know exactly how it feels and I've done Financial coaching

and counseling for 35 years and almost

and Jade has too not for 35 years but she done a bunch of it and almost every time we sit down with someone Jade and

they do their they have this aha moment

like wow I've got some money yep it's a

big deal so check out the every dollar

app for your budgeting it's the world's

best budgeting app for sure it's free in

the app store or Google Play and you can

go to everydollar.com and I get it there

as well so check it out we've got tens

of millions of people tens of millions

of people using this every day it's

pretty cool so thank you guys that are

using it we're glad it's helpful to you that's what we want to be is helpful and

uh just man pretty incredible Andrew is

with us in Lexington Kentucky hi Andrew

how are you hi Dave how are you better

than I deserve what's up hey uh so how do I pay off my debt if

a good portion over half of my income uh

goes to child support and

taxes um how many kids do you have

I have three total two are on child

support well if you have kids you do have to pay

for them and so that's just part of I

think that's part of normal life if you have kids in a family same thing with the taxes and so in this case it's

really just about the math right if you want to go faster usually the solution is you got

to bring in more income and more money

so what do you bring it in right

now uh I I average about gross uh

probably about over three but I only bring in

probably about um maybe 12 to 15 a

month yes 1,500 a month okay something

is wrong with that because in Kentucky

two children child supports

25% well I have two from two separate

moms okay oh so you got 20% each

uh the my

daughter uh when we went to court and

stuff uh they did not properly send me

paperwork and the lawyer I had at the

time before I found a different lawyer

was not in contact with the child support office so I ended up missing

that court date um so they went for Max

of what they could even with my other uh C or child

support that I

have okay um well I mean there's two

things we can do here to work on this

um understanding that what Jade said is

proper and I assume you agree with that that you need to pay for your kids there's no question about that but how am I how can I mathematically make this work so there is a legal amount in every

state I do not know if it's two children

from two different people if it changes

it but the max in KY is 25% for two kids

okay and if you're being charged more

than that um you can go back before

Child Services back before the judge and

have it set up properly and so make sure

you're getting charged the right amount and that you're doing that willingly and

gladly because you're a good man and you want to take care of your kids okay uh

but if you've got if you're being

overcharged uh because of a screw up

well go back and have have the screw up fixed it's not it's not ever it's not chiseled in stone you just got to get back before the judge and go your honor here's what I've got here's my budget help me with this tell me what I'm supposed to do I'm not trying to dodge here but I'm also can't breathe and so I

you know I want to sit down and look at that and so you've got to get back and and reset this to what it should legally

and for that matter morally be then the

other side of the equation is what Jade said and that start talking about how we can increase your income what can you do

instead of making 3,000 a month to make 6,000 a month and that may be side hustles it

may be career change it may be something

different but um one of the things we

see Andrew often it's almost every

single debt-free scream that comes in here and is on the stage had an increase

in income during the time they're getting out of debt it's vital because

the two things that you can do is you can cut expenses or or and you can

increase your income so there comes a point where you can only cut expenses so much and then you say okay what else can I do and then it's okay I'm increasing my income I'm picking up a side hustle I'm taking overtime anything that will pay

me that is legal and moral I'm going to

do that to get money serious money yeah

I mean we had a young lady uh in her 20s

that paid off uh doing a debt free scream uh that just just the other day

that um were you on with me yes I will

never forget tended bar $99,000 a month

single mom yep bartending

beating alcoholism yeah and doing 75 hard at the

same time yeah and you know $99,000 a

month but she's working 12 our days at the bar you know yeah um and uh that's

hard work by the way if you didn't know so um wow so I I'm not I don't know

Andrew but Jade's right there's only two ends of the equation I'd work both of them and that's be paying the proper

amount of Child Support by the law and

if you need to do an appearance before the judge in order to get that fixed that's there's nothing wrong with that

um and then uh and then increase your

income you know lower your expenses

increase your income and uh that's what

we're doing so good question sir we

appreciate you joining us open phones at

8825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money I will tell you this

something he brought up we hear a lot

and uh not necessarily exactly the way

that he said it or and I don't know his exct situation but here's the thing if you

know there is a thing out there coming

at you you have a former landlord that says

you owe them money that's a thing that's

laying out there you have a repossessed

car it's a thing that's laying out there

they're going to come at you you've got an old credit card from 5 years ago

you've not paid it they've not called you but you've done nothing about it

it's coming at you you're going through

a divorce um and you know when you go

through a divorce and you have children 100% of the time there's a child support

meeting that's coming at you when you

know these things are coming at you one

of the things I've observed is that if

you don't go headlong into it and face

it and handle it before it comes to you

mhm it costs you twice as much if you

wait till the former landlord sues you

if you wait till the old credit card

pops up it's going to pop up right about the time you're trying to buy a house or something or about the time you're getting engaged or some other kind of crap these things have a high rate of

Resurrection they come back to life

These are debt zombies yeah you got to

be proactive and you you know if you

don't go find the debt zombie and handle

it so don't don't tell me well they didn't tell me about child support dude you knew about child support youd go down there and fix it 100% instead

instead they they jacked you up cuz you weren't there because you down the court

and make sure it was taken care of you got to wander down there and take care of the stuff boys and girls you know

it's it's like well I didn't know I didn't know I had a CR yes you knew you had a credit card debt you did know that

you know you weren't that drunk for that

long eventually you sobered up and go

yeah I ran the B balance up on that thing you know I mean you've got you do

know it happened and so this stuff it it

you know it comes back to life and it's

10x worse than if you had gone and found

it and taken care of it yourself don't

let these things lay out there in the in

in the muck because when they come back to life they're the swamp monster monster and they're they're three times

more powerful just you know you've got

to face these things head on so when you

don't take care of business business will take care of your butt that's what I'm saying this is the Ramsey

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

[Applause]

Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

Solutions on the debt Street free stage

Kevin and Shaban are with us hey guys

how are you hi Dave hi Dave great

welcome welcome where do you guys live Cincinnati Ohio wow welcome to Nashville

and how much debt have you two paid off

$84,000 wow how long did this take 28

months good for you and your range of income during that time 158 to 200 cool

what do youall do for a living I'm in engineering operations and I am a

stay-at-home mom um homeschool my kids

and I've done some side jobs with just

like our homeschooling group teaching

good for you well done what kind of debt

was this 84k daveid was our house you

paid off your house looking at weird

people and we were saying that before the political people were saying it I'm just saying all right hey guys way to go

congratulations thank you I love it how

what's the house worth 475 I love it how

old are you two 43 or both 43 43y old

weirdos wow a paid for house how much in

your uh nest egg in your retirement accounts and so forth 625 uhoh baby

steps millionaires too at 43 boom boom

look at you how's that feel it's I never

thought I would be here it's amazing life changing congratulations proud of you all excellent so tell us your story what was

your I've had it moment what turned this whole thing around how didd you get connected to us I've probably been

connected to you for about a decade I think our story starts back in 2007 we

were just married I was living we were living up in Detroit area and I was work in the automotive industry and if you remember 2007 2008 was a real great time

um up in Detroit uh the company that I worked for was actually sold uh to a

leverage buyout company uh malan had

just been born in May 3rd and that was

the same day we decided we need to get out of here and we actually put our house on the market the day she was born

the day she was born yeah that's yeah

and uh we are out of here yes and the

real estate market was awful it took us five months to sell the house and I still remember to this day we had to write a $20,000 check and bring it to

closing just to get rid of the house and it wiped out our life savings and we looked at each other and it wasn't anything we had done wrong but we just said we never want to feel like this

again and uh was at that point I was

able to get a job in Ohio with and my parents lived down there and we actually moved in with my parents and lived with our daughter meline for the first year

just to just to climb back out cuz we

everything we'd save for was was gone

everything we'd save for was gone wow

and and then you end up buying a house yes and said but we're going to get it paid off fast yep okay cool and and you

were connected to us way back in Detroit

uh I think I may have started listening to it just a little bit but then really got connected once we moved moved down to I probably listened to you for over a decade so for a long time for a long time well it worked your baby step's millionair thank you from from having

from being broken living in your daddy's basement yeah oh my God it was actually upstairs it was in the basement put him

in the basement okay all right either

way I got you the attic okay wow

congratulations YN thank you so tell us what does it look like for a lot of people don't believe that you could pay

off your mortgage one day right that's not something people talk about every day unless you're here on the Ramsey Network right so so tell people what

does that look like what what what do you do in order to be able to pay off your mortgage so it it was about a

couple years ago Siobhan I mean meline is 17 now and she was you know she'll be starting College next year and I think I was just looking at the the principal like the amount I just started kind of doing the numbers in my math and I was like if I really if we if we really

focus on this we can get this thing paid off and it just just you had this

Clarity of thought like if we really focus on this we can get it done and then you start making the payments and the bonuses and just put it down it's like holy cow it's just unbelievable detraction that you can achieve when you you average three or four grand a month for 28 months and you were done yes but

there's still that intentionality of taking the numbers out of the air right and putting them on paper putting them in your every dollar budget yes wow yeah

so uh I I got a feeling I know who the nerd is in the family and um so you came

out of your cave with your spreadsheet and what did your wife say I I think

fortunately I listened to you long enough that we dreamed together we had

the why we have had the why conversation for a long time we talked about what we

want our lives to be like when we're older and so we had that discussion the

why discussion we dreamed in high definition as you said early on we talked about traveling and helping our kids pay for school and the biggest

thing for Siobhan was we had a really challenging time with mine when she was little she had some health issues and she said I want to be able to be able to

go when my children when I have my grandchildren and just stay with them whether it's a week or it's a month or whatever it is that they need I want to have that freedom to be able to go help with my grandchildren that was her that was one of her Dreams yeah and that's

called Financial Independence so to

speak it's not you're not independent you're actually interdependent but yeah

Wow way to go guys thank you very cool

you guys are heroes you go you go from broke to

millionaire in 10 years I mean that's

pretty incredible it's just one day I

would say it's also one day at a time too and just saying focused on that um

and the Small Things add up too mhm and

being content and realizing that stuff

doesn't make you happy you know the other gift that's

hidden inside this story is you got

these beautiful kids over here that are

living in your home being homeschooled

and they're breathing this air of

contentment they're breathing this air

of living on less than we make and uh

they're breathing air that's not in other homes and so they can't help but

be formed by that and so if they're ever

in their own home and they're not it doesn't the air doesn't feel like that then they know something's wrong and so

you've set a pattern for them More's caught than taught Rachel says and she's right so I that's a pretty cool thing

it's a pretty cool parenting they're going to they're going to do what you do they're not going to do what you say

so uh pretty impressive how do you

celebrate what happens next yeah what's the big celebration big celebration is

actually M's graduating from high school so we're actually taking a nday Caribbean cruise next baby love that I

like it yes we should do that absolutely

y yeah the year she's born we sell our

house at a loss move into the attic and

the year she graduates by God we're

going on a cruise I like it this is this

a book ending right here man it's perfect it's the way it should be well done you guys very well done all right

bring up the kiddos let's meet them all and their uh names and ages please uh

Malin here is 17 right Nicholas is 12

and Samuel is 14 all right very good

good job you guys proud of y'all and I

assume they've been practicing their Deb free scream because their mom and dad are heroes yes they live with weirdos in

a debt free house debt free millionaires

at 42 freaking years old amazing shut up

this is great I'm so proud of y'all

you're just amazing just amazing all

right Kevin and shabon

Madeline Samuel and Nicholas Cincinnati

Ohio 84,000 paid off that's their house and

everything making them baby steps

millionaires in 28 months they paid off

the house making 158 to 200 count it

down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1

we're de free

yeah woohoo woo good I love

it this uh 10 to 15 year time span it

was 2007 so I quoted that wrong it

wasn't 10 years so it would be 15 yeah

years or so 16 years they took them to

turn that the it it when you say I'm

going to become a millionaire most people think it takes 50 years your whole life yeah yeah and it's you know

it's going to take forever ever and I'm not going to have a life and I'll be 80 by the time I you know I'm going to live in a cave and collect lint until I'm 92

and old paper clips and whatever else

right it's just like oh God no it's not

how it works they're

42 they're going on a N9 day

cruise to celebrate this okay so if

you're 27 and you're whining about a

little bit of sacrifice shut up and do

the work I know wow Step Up seriously

cuz 40 is the new 30 I I thought 60 was but we can do that

[Laughter]

too apparently green is a new fashion

trend that's right you're on Trend Dave good job had no idea you and I were both dressed to join the Army today but we did so um hey we're we're a real team

around here we're more in sync than we realize way to go you guys we're got

give some of my hair

no oh oh man I'm proud of those people

what neat what a neat family this is the Ramsey Show

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thanks for joining us America Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host

today Tony's in Chicago hi Tony welcome

to the Ramsey Show hi Dave thanks for

having me on the show sure what's up

well my mother passed away about 18 months ago she left me and my brother a

paid off home currently valued at

450,000 I'm executive on the house and

I'm trying to make a decision is to whether sell the house and have to throw

my brother out on the street or let him continue living there

okay

um well I assume he doesn't have the

money to buy out your half he does not

okay um I think it's a little dramatic

to say throw him out on the street he's going to have $200,000 in his pocket

when he lands on the street I feel the

same way yeah um um so I under what on what

planet does he think he gets to live there for free indefinitely

well he's been living there for free for about 15 years now he has an anxiety

disorder which led him to uh be

dependent on xanx he does not work his girlfriend

pays all his bills she's been living there for about nine years she's a disabled vet who works part time as a nurse my mother couldn't have the the

heart to put him out on the street and as a Christian I'm struggling too you know what's the right

decision okay I'm I'm not sure that

supporting or enabling

people's uh inability or unwillingness to deal

with their stuff is

non-Christian as a matter of fact it's

non-Christian to enable them to sit in

the sewage that we call their life right

now I loving them well would require

them to deal with their stuff and build a sustainable life and dignity right

that would be an act of

Love does that sound right

it's I agree Christian the definition of

Christian is not wimp it's not

doormat it's kind but it's also strong

and it's acting in others best interest

so what is best for your brother is for

him to heal to seek counsel and deal with the

anxiety and get off the drugs and you

know you know cuz the way you stay this

you don't believe that um you believe he's

escaping reality rather than dealing

with and getting better that's what the way I that's what I heard you saying did I miss something no I I I think you're

saying it correctly yeah and that's your

that's your viewpoint on it and so if

this is my friend or my brother loving

them well would be helping them do

better in their life not giving them a

cocoon to continue to retreat down into

a hole right so that see that's what

enabling your mom was an

enabler right and sweet all enablers are nice

people they're all they're the nicest

people on the planet because they don't want to do anything that causes conflict or raises an eyebrow so gosh I you

know I guess you've got two options one

is you do have to deal with this lovingly and help him get better and um

sit down with him and the parasite that

moved in with him and um the uh because

he attracted that with his life that's

what his life attracted and um uh uh you know helped

them deal with it and help them see a path of what they could do with the money from the house um or just deed it

to him and walk

away right which is honestly cowardice

yeah do you need the money it's a lot of money I definitely need the money yes I

do yes yeah I mean there is a practical

nature to this as well which is just

because he lived in the house for 15 years doesn't make it it wasn't his it's

not his house it wasn't his house his house and now you have ownership of it

and there's nothing wrong with you saying hey can you please this is $200,000 that you're holding hostage and

I really need access to that and there's

nothing wrong with with saying that and to Dave's Point you're not putting him on the street he's coming away with a

couple hundred, which is a nice chunk of

change and where where where is the

house where's the house M and in Niles

just outside of Chicago oh in Chicago area okay yeah Chicago area are you in

that area as well right yes okay well um

are you married no I am divorced um okay um I'm

just looking for the what the Dynamics are so um is there anyone in you and

your brother's life that could sit with

the two of you while you work on this

that could help uh kind of navigate

through all the

emotion well I haven't talked to my

brother in probably five months okay so

this makes it even more difficult he's

he's um basically just cut everybody off

in his life okay all right I I would

call him and and I would go over there

and it's half your house okay and say we

need to have a cup of coffee and I love

you and I want to be kind to you and

we've got to talk about what we're going to do here because I can tell you this

one of the options is not this is you

talking to your brother if if it's me you got to love him well enough to be strong and kind and just honey one of

the options is not you stay here free

the rest of your life that's not an

option I I'm the executive of the estate

and legally that gives me the power to

evict you and so you and I can do this

together nicely and we can figure out a

way to get the house sold or if you've got money that I don't know about you can buy me out I don't care but I'm not

going to sit here and do nothing and you

aren't either because I'm going to force

you to do these other things so I I really want to do this in a way that you

and I work together and we can be friends the rest of our life and um but

that's going to be up to you okay that's

what I'm telling him it's up to him how

he reacts to this situation because his

set of assumptions are completely immoral unethical and

unreasonable correct and and so he he he

can choose to react and act like you're

doing something wrong but you're not and

you have to go in knowing that and and

it so let me just tell you so you go over there the whole thing blows up he

has a fit acts like a for year old says

get out of here I'm going to shoot you

then you say all right here's what we're going to do you're going to be getting a letter from the attorney and the attorney's going to be telling you that you have 30 days to move and after that

we're going to evict you and after that

I'm going to sell the house and I will still send you your half of the house

once it's sold but you are leaving and

you chose poorly on how to react to this

it's still going down honey and then

just walk off and go get a

lawyer okay cuz that's probably what's

going to happen am I

right I'm I'm I'm really taking this to

Heart the the other thing in the in the

inter ter my father has gone ahead and he's taken $1,400 a month from his

future inheritance and he's given that to me as rent and he says well as long

as your brother's in there he said you're going to keep getting $1,400 a month and that'll go over to your inheritance but you know Dave as well as I know we don't have the crystal ball

that money could easily disappear down the road we don't know I don't like that

so your father also is an

enabler he's covering for him

too am I understanding that

right I think he was just feeling bad

for me and just the sit feeling bad for

you okay well it's both because he's

saying I'm essentially paying your brother's rent and if you let me pay

rent to you then you can let him stay in the house it's it's very Twisted all of it I mean I don't have to tell you that it's unhealthy you know unhealth Dynamic

I would rather him give your brother 1,400 to help him get counseling and go

to a rehab center and get go inpatient

treatment and get some help with the anxiety disorder so he can become uh

sustainable and healed I'd rather him

use the money for that and um and let

the lady who lives there's family take

care of her and you your dad help take

care of your brother and if you want to use some of the money from the house to take care of him if he's moving in positive steps I'd be willing willing to do that if I were you but I am not

willing to sit here and cause this

dysfunction to happen to me it is not

good for anyone in the story no one in

the story is winning correct no one in the story is

going to have a better life because of this so it just requires proactivity on

your part and I'm sorry but it's going to be you got a year of emotional hell

ahead of you you're going to get called

everything in the book before this is

over I'm sorry pick up Dr Henry Cloud's

book boundaries um you'll read it and

you'll go oh there's my family this is

the ramsy show [Music]

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today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create made

actual amazing relationships I'm Dave

Ramsey your host J bosaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today thank you for

joining us America open phones here at

88255 225 the call is free and some say

the advice is worth exactly what you pay

for it Scott is in Baltimore hi Scott

welcome to the Ramsey Show uh good afternoon Dave and Jade how

are you doing today better than we deserve what's up

so I'm a 50y old 58y old single guy uh

getting tired of working I'm trying to get the retirement but I don't have

really anything saved I need to know how I should what I

should do to get there okay uh what do you

make uh 75 what do you

do uh I'm a trim Carpenter I trim

high-end houses and build some Custom

Cabinets as well okay you have any

debt uh I've got about

$25,000 worth of a mortgage and uh

20,000 order Lo okay good

okay all right

um why have you saved no

money uh I was I was married to a

spender and at the age of 50 um got

divorced and I walked away with zero

dollars that was eight years ago why

have you saved no money in the last eight years um well getting back on my feet I

ended up buying a house um that's where the mortgage comes

in I got $25,000 left on that so is that

where your extra money was going paying down that mortgage what did it start as

paying down yeah paying down the mortgage and it was a bank owned property um I got it for a song in a

great neighborhood um I put a fair

amount of money into it

um and that's where that's where most of my

money went so so the all right so and

you bought a

truck uh no I have it's it's my I have a

truck that's paid for oh what's the $20,000 vehicle uh I know you're into cars Dave

it's not a car um it's a motorcycle it's

a Harley-Davidson oh okay we gotta get

rid of that

I knew that was the first thing you were going to tell me to get rid of yeah it's gone if you want if you want to save

money I mean we have we can't keep doing what we've been doing okay you have a $20,000 you almost owe as much on your

motorcycle as you do on your house

that's weird yeah you know I mean really

so uh that you know you did so good on

the house and so poorly on the motorcycle so that was a weak moment I'm

sure it's a great bike I'm sure it's a great bike but uh but it's gone it's

gone somebody else's great bike now and

um cuz we need you to and then you know

what I would say is let's get on an every dollar budget and build an

emergency fund first of 3 to six months

of expenses and then pick up every extra

job you can get and let's pretend that

you saved $10,000 uh let's pretend you saved

$24,000 $22,000 a month 24,000 per year

for uh 10 years that'd be 240,000 plus

growth it'd be a half a million

dollar okay okay and you're you're 67

and you'd have a half million dollars in a paid for house okay I do have about

$23,000 in cash okay well then you got

your emergency fund in that that's great

I do have the emergency fund great um I

also I've got a a term life insurance

policy um that I'm it's $100 a month uh

for half million dollars should I keep that or is there a way to convert that to something else I doesn't convert it's

just like I have homeowners insurance and I don't have a home anymore do I

need it you know no you don't because

there's no one counting on you it sounds like for your income no okay and the house is the

house is worth more than you owe on it do you have children I've got three okay so if you

die they sell the house and pay the funeral right correct okay y let it

lapse yeah so you I I would close that out cuz you need that extra hundred bucks a month toward our $2,000 a month goal mhm so what I'm going to do is sit

down and do a budget and I'm going to come up with $2,000 a month I'm going to

sit down with a smart Vestor Pro and I'm

going to fill up Roth IRAs and simple

IAS and whatever else you can do as a self-employed person the great news is

as a trim Carpenter in high-end properties you are in great demand

you've always had more work than you

could take on right and so if you want to back it

up and make some extra money for a little while you can do that um I'm

always less tired when I don't feel like

a hamster in a wheel when I'm actually

getting

traction part part of part of what's

making you tired is you feel

stuck I don't know if I necessarily feel

stuck I know what stuck feels like because once I got out of my divorce

from and got rid of the spender and started actually saving or being able to

have money and and didn't have to live

paycheck to payche check and play the beat the Bank game um I sat down one day

I thought wow this feels really good yeah I'm tired of working is what you told me and so if if my work is going

toward a goal that I'm excited about I'm

not as tired that's all I'm

saying okay yeah well my goal is is to

to to get as much money save as much

money as I can for retirement and

retirement for me is probably working

three and four days a week instead of you know five six and 7 Days that's true

but there always comes a time where you won't be working anymore and so making

sure you get to the point that you're

okay when that phase of Life hits is also very important see if you had a half a million dollars in the bank at 67 or in a mutual fund at 67 in a paid for

house that 500,000 will throw you 50,000

a year right without

forever and so you you can travel you

could do whatever you want to do with 50,000 a year you work one day a week you can do whatever the what I do know

having grown up in the and been in the building business real estate business my whole life is trim Carpenters are artists they're the artist on the site

they're very precise very detailed he

makes Furniture you've got an artist's

eye and I need you to use your business

side the science not the art side of

this discussion that we're having okay you can't art your way out

of this one you got to science your way

out of this one and so it's it's a math

thing um and then you it will build you

a a situation where you have enough of a

nest egg that it cause you to have a good life that's what I'm wanting to move you towards so you got 10 years $2,000 a month and you can get

there it's very doable and you might

fool yourself you might get there sooner

uh because the more you pile it up the

faster the more you're willing to work all that kind of stuff so um you know you can back down it at

whatever point but uh I would sit down

with the smart Vester Pro go to ramseys

solutions.com pick somebody with a heart of a teacher and say this is my situation I've got to do this Dave told

me to get on an every dollar budget he told me to Jack my income up get rid of my motorcycle uh Jade told me get rid of

my motorcycle but Dave agreed

and I just slide that in there just

threw that un through the under you see the bus tracks I see the bus tracks

right across her yeah there we go and

yeah get you a game plan man and then

execute the game plan just like you were

uh doing a job on a house you lay out

the game plan you lay out what is needed you get the supplies on hand and you execute same thing here same exact deal

this is the Ramsey Show

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

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today's question comes from Patty in Illinois my husband and I purchased a

very modest home for his parents due to

the rising cost of rent in our area my

father-in-law is disabled my mother-in-law Works full-time at a very

modest job and they pay us a small

amount of rent each month it's been 5

years now and the home has required a lot of repairs such as water intrusion

of mold uh we've been able to cash flow

the problems but it has cost over 15,000

not to mention our sanity it has also

changed our relationship because they frequently contact us for issues or

requests in spite of many conversations

about what is quote nice to have versus

what is quote needed uh we're trying to

honor our word but it has been very taxing emotionally and financially we

are in baby step six and we need to plan for our own retirement I keep telling

myself to suck it up but we are losing

tons of money with no end in sight I've

listened to the show long enough to know we probably shouldn't have done this but at the time it felt like the right thing to do what would you do if you were in

our shoes well first off I wish I had

more information Dave I want to know how old these parents are I want to know I

want to know more I want to know the value of the house because I'm thinking if you bought a house in 2019 like the

value's probably gone up a good deal mhm

so so they're she they might not be

losing money in the way that she thinks now the actual idea of doing this I

think was a really bad idea um I think

there was just a lack of foresight here and I don't know what the promise was

did they say hey we're doing this house

you're going to live here you know until you die and we're covering it I don't

know what the promise was but I think

that they may have you know brought

promised more than what they could deliver on and I think that's probably what she's feeling some type of way about so she's got a lot of drama in her

words uh-huh she does and it's her

in-laws uh-huh I I the piece of

information I would like is I'd like to talk to her husband and see if he feels the same way uhhuh and if it was everybody's idea bothering him to the same degree or if this is in-law drama

that you are now molding or laying over

on this house yes

uh-huh I think it's a little bit of both

she does use the word we a lot which

makes me think that there is some Unity

no I think I don't think it was a hidden thing uh but I think he went into it and

went bought mom and dad a house and Dad's disabled mom got a you know not

not much of a job and they pay us what they can pay us and we fix the stuff that breaks and and she's going oh God

I'm dying yeah you know it's like um so

I don't I you know

$115,000 is not uh we are losing tons of

money over five years no it's nothing if

you own a house you're going to spend more more than $115,000 over 5 years on

a house M and they're getting some rent

which is good and it's going up in value

uhhuh going up in value mom and dad are going to pass someday and you're going to have a nice asset that's gone up in

value that you can sell and probably pay off your house and more if you haven't already so I I think I would first thing

I would want is get to the bottom and say what is where is all this resentment

really coming from um is it really coming from the

house I kind of don't think it is I

don't think so I now there is part of it

where they may have bitten off more than

they realized they were going to be chewing do you know what I'm saying like

in in theory it sounded good and then when you start walking it out you're like oh my goodness but to your point if

she's riding into to our show there's

something that they're not talking about yeah if your mother-in-law is calling you and asking you to fix something at a

house that you gave to her at a deal mhm

um and you already had you know

mother-in-law Ida

then that would just make it worse right

I mean that's it's like well you know

the difference in what is needed and what's nice to have yeah but you know

it's a modest home they're modest people she makes a modest income there wasn't anything in here lavish there's also

though Dave I didn't hear a Jacuzzi being installed I think to to to quote

myself I think there's also a vocab rehab that needs to happen amen because

here she's saying my husband and I purchased a very modest home for his

parents they don't own the home they're

renters you guys bought a house for yourself it's your asset it's your home

and I think if you start viewing it as an asset that we have it's going to

change your thought you I had a rental I have a rental house and it it a water

leak and I had to fix them all that's right as opposed to it's guess what I've had to do that a bunch of times right so

I had zero drama about it that's right

just fixed it it and it's going up in value tree fell on the back porch and

just fixed it it's just you know it's just you own a house and crap happens

right I mean it's like um it the other

question that I don't I'm with you I I don't think we have enough information because it's very interesting question it is and I'm imping a lot on you Patty

I apologize for that but um trying to

figure out what's really happening here and therefore to what to do with this

because also their age might play into it if she if if they're 87 suck it up if

they're 57 kick them

out you know sell it and give them the

money that it brings whatever it brings

give them the money for it um because

you didn't you didn't buy it for money you bought it to help them and you know if you want to give them the whatever proceeds are cuz you're going have made some money to your point from 2019 so uh

yeah that's that's that's part of it and

um yeah yeah and and I think then I

would want to just really ask I don't

know uh well walk that out what would

you so let's say let's say she's listening she goes yeah you know what they are in their 50s they need to get out of this house they've been paying us a small amount of rent what would you suggest in that situation to fairly I I

mean I don't care if you give them the money really I mean you sell the house

and whatever whatever I don't I don't know if there's a mortgage here or not but pay off all the expenses and then

whatever money you've made on the house

give it to them I don't care um oh I'll

tell you the other piece I don't know right here is I don't know Patty's income yeah that's right you know Patty makes $300,000 a year stop whining and

deal with it that's another good point if Patty makes $55,000 a year then you

were you did something you couldn't afford to do here that's true and that's

where some of this drama is coming from

is the pinch um because it's like oh it's we're

we're but we're uh it's been very taxing

emotionally and financially yeah okay I

don't understand it's um 15 grand is not

taxing emotion I mean it's not but so uh

that that's yeah it's a lot of details

maybe call in sometime Patty yeah yeah

we we do that so you can contact them

back off the email if you want to James we take the call cuz I I don't know what

to do but if yeah I think we could give a couple of scenarios if then okay kind

of flowchart it if they're super old and

you make a lot of money then this drama

is in your head calm down and suck it up

if they're super young and you don't make a lot of money maybe you need to move them out and sell the house I think

those are the two variables that that could be there I I don't hear a lot of

mother-in-law drama but I just think it's I it does it did it was curious to

me how much drama she had and I wondered if her husband would feel exactly the same way I bet he doesn't now if they're only

paying uh you know the mortgage is 2,000

and she said they're paying a small amount of rent so they're paying a th000

the proceeds I'd split okay I don't care um the thing is

I don't there you're not selling it

because you need money that's true she

did not bring that up she you're right she did not bring to get rid of an un

Anem and financially draining situation

to quote her that's true but she just

she did say we're in baby step six and need to plan for our own retirement so that made me think they might want some money it could be and it could just be

that the drama I'm tired of giving them

anything and I'd rather put it in my

account in Lost situations they get they

get salty really quick not going there

yeah not not going to do that you're right to that you started the whole thing right when you said you shouldn't have done it foresight you gotta you have to play these things out in your mind years and years to see where it will

land and all of the different variations

of the plan when you're trying to help your parents you're trying to help your grown kids you do not enter into a

process that does not bring them to

sustainability on their own and so you

get them up where they're standing on their own feet and you let them go so whatever you're doing create a situation

that gets them up on their own feet instead of a continuous drain and so that's so you people pay in

your 28- year- olds private schools for

their kids that's not sustainable we

shouldn't have entered into that this is

the ramsy

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

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Barbara is in Santa Barbara hi Barbara

how are you oh good thank you so much

for taking my call it's a pleasure to

talk to you both been listening to you for quite a

while I know how youd love a whole life

insurance policies but yeah my husband

took one out literally in college in the

60s because a friend of his you know got

their first job and sold everybody in

the fraternity house a whole life policy

so it is now

2024 we still have this policy but I've

never heard you address this issue if we

terminate this policy because I feel we

can self-insure at this point I have a

loan on this policy for

$63,000 and the agent is telling me if I

Surrender the policy that will be taxed

at my income or income level is that

true no no it's not true because I thought my

understanding was the way you talk about it when you borrow against the policy

you're actually borrowing your own money

and paying interest to borrow it exactly

and so your cash your cash value your

cash value amount is how much

$3,030 AB above the

63 yes okay so you get a check for three

grand okay okay and you'll have a net

income as a result of that of $66,000

which includes the loan okay um that

amount is compared to the total amount

you have paid into the policy since the

beginning which is way more than $63,000

okay your basis in a whole your basis in

a cash value policy for tax purposes is

the total of your premiums paid in right and your as long as your cash

value does not exceed that number you have zero taxes okay so I would think that since

it's been paid on since really the 70 or

60s 70s yeah what's how much have you

paid on it do you know no I have no idea

the de benefit's 24,000 but I mean if you add up you're

going to add up and see the total

premiums that you have put in is going

to be more than the cash value that you get out okay how am I going to find

where do you find that can they tell me that they can tell you that yeah the company can tell you that or you could just say you know how much is the

monthly or the annual amount and multiply it out since you got it oh okay

okay okay I got you so as long as and

and I would think that we've paid in enough over all these years that it's more than 63,000

exactly I mean it's been uh 60 was it

been 60 years 60 years oh my so if it's

$1,000 a year you only paid $1,000 a

year you're still okay yeah I wish I'd

found you a long time ago I would have

never bought this policy but I just never knew about this loan thing because I know you say surrender them if you can

self assure self-insure but I've never

heard you address if you have a loan on it because they keep telling me I'm paying income tax on it well that's what

they like to tell you because they scare you to keep the thing in but the problem is most of the people in the whole life business don't even know what they're doing I fig their level of expertise is

so low because 80% of them are gone in a

year people that sell whole life life

insurance 80% that start selling a whole

life life insurance are gone in a year

so the number of seasoned experienced

expert agents that have been doing it for 30 years it's close to

zero cuz they look up and realize how

bad they're ripping people off and they get out of the business the numbers on this are bananas she's been paying into

it since the 60s it only had

$63,000 of cash value and only a $24,000

death benefit yeah yep I'm shooketh yes

I mean what if there was 63,000 and she

hadn't borrowed on it I know and she

died or he died they'd lose it they get

24,000 the 63 be gone the way the only

way you ensure you get it is to keep a loan on it and so and then when you try

to get out of this complete screw job

they lie to you or they're ignorant one

of the two about how the tax calculation

actually works that is crazy yeah this

is how bad it it's a Payday lender of the middle class remember on sanfred and

sun when red fox I'm coming to join you

when you have that what was what was his wife's name Lily I yeah I think so I

can't remember I'm coming I'm coming oh gosh that makes

oh Lord

sheesh that's it that's how it works

Spencer is in Austin Texas hi Spencer

how are you Dave Jade thanks so much for taking

my call sure what's up uh yeah so um my

situation right now so I live in a house

that my parents own and um they want to

sell it to me and I want to buy it from

them and I have the cash to pay it off

good um but they want to yeah which I you definitely following your planing on that for sure paying off cash I don't like debt either um so but anyway I

guess the reason I'm calling though is because uh so they've owned this house for just under a decade and so you know

they bought it back in 2016 for uh just

under $100,000 and now as you know the

housing market is crazy so I think this house has wored somewhere between you

know 200 to 225 so you know they want to

sell it to we haven't negotiated a price

yet but they want to sell it to me you know somewhat close to what they paid for it so I guess my question is yeah I

know it's a good deal for sure um but I

guess my question is you know and I guess I'm calling on their behalf too because you know we're wondering about like are there going to be capital gains taxes how does it work with me buying it

at much less than what it's worth like how does all that kind of work and what's some ways around if there are any

don't like capital gains and things like that okay well capital gains taxes

calculated on the gain over basis now

let me kind of walk you through that that's a technical thing all right what

you pay for a house is your basis

okay so let's say they paid a 100 for it

and let's be simple for a second and say they sold it to you for 150 then they

would pay capital gains tax on the 50

gain see what I'm

saying yes okay and that's a

15% and so that would only be what uh uh

7500 bucks will be their taxes okay that's a

simplified look at the thing now we'll

add a couple of complications in there

if they have been renting the property

and have been filling out a tax return

on that and depreciating the property against their

taxes taking depreciation then they have an adjusted

basis so the 100,000 they paid for it

minus any depreciation that they have

taken becomes their basis so let's say

they had taken $20,000 worth of depreciation on their taxes over the

years then their basis is no longer 100

now it's 80 you following me yes sir

it's called an adjusted basis and then

your taxes are going to be on the difference between the 150 and the 80 so

they're going to pay taxes on 70 grand

in that case so that's how you calculate

it out if they sell it to

you uh weirdly below market like let's

say this thing's worth 300 and they sell it to you for 100 you probably ought to

get some tax advice as to whether or not

that's going to qualify as just a good deal or whether the IRS would look at

that as giving you a gift and try to tax

them on a gift tax I wouldn't want them to get hit with that so there's kind of

a gray area on the difference in a gift

and a good

deal okay and that was my my other

question too because I they're GNA sell it to me for less than what it's

currently valued at and so I guess they were kind of worried about that as well how far how absurd it you know if if they sell it to you for a dollar and it's worth a million then

they're going to get hit with a gift tax

okay because that's a gift that's not

just a good deal that's over the top okay it's going to be it's going to kind of shake everybody up that looks at it but if you sell you $300,000 house for2

200 that's probably just a good deal so

you need to talk to a Tax Advisor on that part of it to make sure that you're

not violating anything on gift tax what at what point does the IRS look at

something being a good deal or being a gift and then they also can help you

with calculation on the basis so good

deal and pay cash for it and it's a free

clear transaction sounds like a wonderful deal this is the ramsy show

[Music]

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[Music]

Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us

America we're glad you're here Val is in

Minneapolis hey Val welcome to the Ramsey Show Oh family family I listened to you

years five years and I said it's time to

stop listening and start doing okay good

how can we help today all right now I've finally started

with the first and second steps but now

I'm at the point where I have three kids

that I no I shouldn't have and I did it

years I coign for a car because you know

if you want you do one you got to do the other one so I'm stuck with these three

car loans one of them is about to be

paid off in two months the other one uh

she paying half on it because she said

she going to have all of it to pay the

whole card not I'm paying the other one

and the third one is just saying they don't have the money right now so my

question was I was thinking about just

letting the other two cars just go cuz I

can't because I you know I can't afford to pay for for neither one of them and

so would it be a good idea if I just let

them refo it and just let it go on my

credit well you're going have reposession on your credit you

cosigned and then when they sell the car

and it doesn't bring what's owed they're going to come after you for the

difference I know that's why I hit him

at the point guys yeah you're you're going to get sued and you're going to have your credit screwed up so um let's talk about

the the one car is almost paid off so

it's not a problem right right okay so

the other the second car they're W you to pay part of the payment what is owed on that second

car one car is oh one is 16,000 on one

and the other one is 14,000 okay and what are they

worth the one for 16,000 is only worth

8,000 I was shocked and the one that's

worth the one that's worth 14 or the one

you 14 what's it worth 14,000 is about

um I think they said I almost sold that

one for 10,000 so I'm thinking this guy

was going to buy it for 10,000 but he never did come to so I guess it's only worth like 9,000 or something well just

because one guy didn't buy it that doesn't establish value but um yeah so

um if you can sell the 10 thou the the

$10,000 car for 10,000 and get the loan

you have to get a loan somewhere for 4,000 to cover the difference who are these loans with they with the uh my credit G good

go down to your credit union tell them you want to sign a note for the difference before these cars get repoed

and you're going to have $122,000 in debt you sell an $8,000 car that you owe

16 on you sell a $110,000 car that you

owe 14 on you're going to have a debt

with that credit union because otherwise they take these cars and they're not going to sell them for 10 and for eight

they're going to sell them for five and for four at the repo lot sell this car back

to the bank no Oh I thought you said I

can sell it back to the bank no I said you go down to the bank and tell them you want to sign a note for the

difference of what the car won't bring

they have a $116,000 loan on a car

that's worth eight you're going to end

up with an $8,000 loan at the credit

union instead of a $166,000 loan and you

sell a car that's worth 10 that you owe

14 on you're going to end up with a $4,000 loan instead of a

$114,000 loan and your kids are going to

get about the business of getting their own cars right but you get to pay the eight

and the four difference which is going to be 12 cuz they're not going to come through on that you and I know that

yeah this is what you this is what you

pay this is called a it's called a co-signing

fee is that what you're calling

it I thought there was an

actual no it's it's a stupid tax is what

it is when when I do something stupid and it cost me money I call it stupid

tax and you're the co-signing is

stupid yeah I learned that you learned

it you learned it three times

over you thought you were doing

something nice and you did the right thing the wrong way mhm you were being

kind and sweet and unwise and you knew

you were unwise when you were doing it but you were too kind and sweet to stop doing it so next time be more wise and

less sweet I know that's

right wow well the truth is she didn't

do the kids any favors either because they've been strapped to this that's right that's right you think you're doing somebody a favor and you strap them to something they can't afford and that's why the bank wouldn't loan them the money in the first place and everybody feels The Strain yeah

Thanksgiving dinner tastes different so

I co-signing is so universally stupid

the banks are the most aggressive

lenders on the planet they love to loan

money and if they won't loan somebody

money it really means it really means

something that they can't that they can't pay it and instead we step in and

we go oh it's l Junior we'll help Junior

and you know we step up and we coign and prob 1718 says one lacking in sense

co-signs for another wow the

Contemporary English version the cev of

the Bible in 1718 Proverbs says if you

cosign for someone else it's stupid

that's what that version of the Bible says the Bible called it stupid so I

didn't get mad at God but yeah and I

co-signed for a guy one time and I ended up having to pay it and a guy co-signed for me one time and he ended up having

to pay it cuz I went bankrupt that time

and I had to go back and pay him back it's an awful awful mess don't get into

those things it's a horrible horrible situation so poor Val I feel so sorry

for it's awful hey guys uh things are

changing around the ramsy show here this

week back on Monday uh we made a move we

have a network app called the Ramsey Network app that you can download for free you can listen to the whole show on

the Ramsey Network app or watch the

whole show on the ram Network app

whichever you prefer to do the last 40

minutes coming up is only on the Ramsey

Network app or on talk radio as of this

week and so if you're used to getting

the entire show on podcast you can still

get the entire show it's still completely free but you can only get the

last 40 minutes on the network app you

can watch the whole thing but you can get the last 40 minutes only on the network app so you YouTube folks podcast

folks out there you're expecting another another 40 minutes it's there but it's

only over on the Ramsey Network app you

can get it for free we're not charging

for this it's it's all free and it's

searchable you can search it by subject

and uh you can even send in an email ask questions we might answer some Ramsey

app questions at some point so the

Ramsey Network app in the app store or

Google Play completely free not going to

cost you a thing and uh Jade this is

exciting this the things that we're putting in this app to help you guys and

help you access the information that you're listening for um you could listen

for 3 days and not get the answer to your question yeah but if you want to know about car repossessions you can

just Google it in and you'll hear Val's call yeah exactly that's what's going to

happen because they do come after you for the deficit like we were telling her in that case so uh two ways to get the

free app you can click the link in the show notes uh or you can search Ramsey

Network in the app store or Google Play

and again we're going to be adding lots and lots of tools to this thing in the future right now we have the searchable feature uh we have some um audio books

and some other things dropping in there we've got all kinds of processes because we're building stuff out where we can deliver to you on this app it's very

inexpensive for us to do so it's going to be free or inexpensive for you to do

so uh the last 40 minutes of the

show as of this week again on the Ramsey

Network app only or if your talk radio

station carries uh uh in on talk radio

it comes out as over three hours that's

what we do we do a three-hour talk radio

show but in podcast world it's going to

look like something different so that's the thing so you can get all all you get the full episodes to the Ramsey show

only the Ramsey Network app it's very

convenient very easy and very free don't

miss it and uh again Jade the the

features we're putting in this thing we're excited about I'm really excited I

heard a little birdie talking about a

show that one of us is doing that might land in there so that's really cool oh

okay that's all I'm going to say I'm just going to oh I don't know which little birdie this was so I have to find out about this birdie okay cool that but

that might be fun we could we could do just a a show just on that yeah like a

specialty show yeah that you can only watch on the network on a certain

subject or something that would be neat be special ah okay exclusive if you will

yeah and completely free you can't argue

with the free part we have no plans to make it a subscription it's just a free deal so go to Ramsey Network and get the

app in the app store or Google Play and

that way you don't miss a thing and did I mention that it's free this is the

ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramy Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching you

can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you so jump

onto the app and let the fun continue

all right go on now don't make it

weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do e

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---

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[Music]

today welcome to the Ramsey show where

we help you win in your life we're going

to specifically help you win with your money win in your professional journey

and win with your relationships phone

number for you to jump in so we can coach you up Isle 8825 5225 that's 88 25 5225 I'm Ken

Coleman joined uh by the incomparable

George camel he's layered up he's got

his his uh shacket unbuttoned so he's a

little looser today and so that tells me

you're ready to go I really thought you were going to say the incompetent George

camel now why would I do that you are very competent it's what Ken wanted to

say in his head but he said the kind thing instead that's not true everybody knows how much we love each other we enjoy being on the air together have

good uh we were just having a fun conversation uh before the show today which uh you

know we can't share that's true that was a very fun conversation you won't be privy to that you will not be privy to that let's go to Richie who starts us off this hour Richie's in Raleigh North

Carolina Richie how can we

help hey hi U pleased to talk to you

guys um I have over half a million

dollars uh debt um most of it I would

say 90% of it is actually my home um I I

was in a very lucrative job for almost

uh 7 to 8 years but after uh listening

to your podcast I um I came to a

conclusion that I haven't saved enough but I saved enough to uh put a deposit

in a house um and I've been jobless for

about 8 months now and I've um basically

exhausted all of my savings in fact this

month I will be uh taking out the the

,000 that I had kept um for my emergency

fund um towards the mortgage apart from

that I have a car that um I have to pay

around 500 more than $500 every month um

and um and I'm at a point where I've already started borrowing money from my friends and relatives and so I've kind

of um I'm in a um you know um big deep

trouble and I don't know if I should sell my house which I know in a few

years from now will um give me a lot of

equity because this is a growing area it's in the suburbs of Raleigh

let me jump in Richie let me jump in for just a second and George will walk you through uh the debt

situation what was the income and what

were you doing before you lost the

job so I am uh on the business side of

software engineering um I am a product

manager and my um salary fluctuated

between $110,000 to $130,000 a year okay

so uh product manager and um in on the

technology side of things

and you've been without work for eight months what's happening there because I

I I think you've got an income issue is the primary issue so I'm just want to dig here what what in your mind is the

reason why you've been jobless for eight

months um I believe it's the job market

right now um I know a lot of organizations are um um you know laying

off people black and blue um I know many

people who uh have graduated and still

haven't been able to secure a job and been jobless for more than a year now

okay and um so have you had opportunities have you had any interviews that's what I'm looking for what what what's your activity level I have been applying to at least

50 companies a day on an average for the

how are you going about that um basically in our uh job scenario

we basically T people on LinkedIn yeah

and um other job sites Richie I don't

want to I don't want to I do not want to

beat up on you when you're down because this is this is uh we know from

psychology that when you lose a job it

has the same emotional impact as losing a loved one so I want to be sensitive to

this but I can tell you I've coached so

many people who say they apply for

things 50 a day and when I find out it's

LinkedIn you are essentially playing the

lottery right

now that is not going to work and you

can tell it hasn't worked I will tell

you that you are going to and let me let

me just also say this the job market is

very tight in what we call White Collar

jobs and you're in a white collar job

and the market is tightening there's no question about that U but you have got

to go about it a very different way and and I want to give you to George here

but at the same time if we don't have any income coming in you're not going to

be able to do what George teaches you so

you've got to do two things and I'm going to give you at the end of this call uh I'm going to give you uh my book

The Proximity principle and it's an easy

read and I really think you've got to

change up your strategies because you have got to be connecting relationship

to relationship to relationship just to

get an interview then you've got to

perform well I think you understand that

I think you also have to open up the rest of the country are you open to moving or do you feel like you got to

stay in the Raleigh area no I'm open to

moving for sure yeah I mean we're in a desperate situation right now and to

that end I want to get super tactical here you need to be working at a Walmart

stocking shelves you need to be uh

driving you need to be doing whatever it

takes and I'm I'm going to pass it off to George with that as the segue just to

cover the basics right now so you got uh

you've got to change your strategy and

get really intense about finding a gig

but in the meantime you're working every job you can get George I hand it to you here to walk through his numbers so Richie you're you're telling me you don't you don't have any income coming in you've been draining the emergency fund to live correct yes he will for the

first time what is your monthly expenses when you look at your four walls food utility shelter Transportation what does that add up to um it's uh over $5,000 because of

around I have my mortgage itself a fixed

mortgage is 3600 and it's just you are

you single yes I'm single okay here's the

deal it might be where you need to move

you need to rent for a while one of the

reasons is this income situation the

other is you may not need a huge house right now in Raleigh mhm and so it's going to free you up with more options as you move into this next career phase the other is

you might need to sell this car how much is the car worth and what do you owe on

it um so the car I got a pre-owned car

for around $50,000 um I paid an upfront

$20,000 there so my current monthly

payment what's what's left on the loan

uh it's about 19,000 and what do you think it's worth if you looked up the Kelly Blue Book private sale

value um it could go for 19 or 20 not

more than that okay if I'm in your shoes

I'm getting rid of this car tomorrow I'm going to borrow a car for a little bit save up another thousand or two and just

get you a used beater car to get you around for now cuz that car is about to get repoed

you can't make the payment on it right

you're going to be paying that payment with your more debt to cover it yeah so

I think this house does need to go on the market for other reasons I think the car needs to go today and that will at

least give you a little bit of breathing room but like Ken said you need to go get three or four jobs just to cover the bills to cover those three four five

grand until you can get that career

that's right right and you you got to stop this

LinkedIn and I love LinkedIn I'm very

active on LinkedIn but LinkedIn is great

for information uh you've got to make some

real human to human connections right

now your your resume is is you are

spitting in the wind every day right now

that is that is how effective that is

and and you've got to get really intentional Richie listen you have too

much skill and too much

experience to stay unemployed eight

months I mean a product manager that is a very impressive set of

skills and also experiences that are

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but nobody knows you're out there man

folks I'm going to say this if I if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times submitting resumés online you are

just nameless faceless you're not making

any progress at all at all you got to

get back out and meet people say will

you connect me will you take my resume into the hu manager this is all about people the opportunity follows the

connections to people this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show where we help you win in your life I'm Ken

Coleman George Campbell is with me today

it's the firm of Coleman camel and camel

the don't hire those people if that was a law firm I'd say run yeah yeah do your

research on that you see us on a park bench you know with our faces plastered on there that'd be kind of funny been an injury call Coleman and you know what we would use that photo that has yet to say we got to share that photo today do we have the uh the Step Brothers photo that

we can share on YouTube well look that's

a tease that's a tease we recently got together all the the Ramsay personalities and we did new shoot a new photo shoot and it turns out that George

and I individual photos were backtack

schedule wise and we had a we had a little fun with that we reshot the cover

to the movie UHS Step Brothers and it's

uh that could see that on the Park Bench but I tell you where you could see us together outside of the show you know where we can see us Ramsey Cru on the

Ramsey Cruise it's called the live like no one else Cru and it it is coming George it is going to be here before you know it and uh I'm I'm told here on my

production notes that uh we've had more

than 85% of the cabins booked so people

are starting to to to lock in and we're

going to be going to Turks and C St Thomas Puerto Rico and the Bahamas uh

George will have an entire vat of of

sunscreen he is uh I'm a 50 SPF guy yeah

he is he is are you really yeah you

might as well just wear a head to toe sweatsuit well here's the deal I'm thinking I'll be pale for the rest of my life but my face will look exactly like it did 50 years ago okay that's my

strategy whatever you tell yourself I don't want to look like a baseball glove that got left out in the sun yeah it's not my strategy so uh while you're over

here working on your third base tan

listen it's just called being outside

I'm not you know I can't risk it okay

well you know we're going to be all over the place with uh the catamaran selling

jet skiing horseback riding I want to see you horseback riding on the beach

that feels right personal brand I think

horses want to stay far away from this guy folks I listen I'm trying to have

fun with this and you can see that he's a scared man you're bringing up trauma I

told that girl to sell the horse terrified little fellow is is what you

are you're scared I'm going to make you

get outside your comfort zone on the cruise uh by the way I'm told there's pickle ball courts on the ship for real

yes by the way I have people have been reaching out to me on Instagram saying

hey I would like to uh to set up a

pickle ball match with my husband and you and all this kind of things yeah I'll do that for charity it's the only way you're getting I'll be holding Court literally there uh all the food is

included even room service you can Lounge by any of the pools hottubs see

me and others other uh enthusiasts at

the pickle ball court um and

state-of-the-art fitness center and you

can hang out with all of us Ramsey personalities and also our exciting

celebrity guest Trey Kennedy Steven Curtis Chapman man Shan Deana Carter and

more uh this is 7-Day Cruise March 22

through 29 2025 you do not want to miss

this Unforgettable vacation uh you can

book your cabin right now by going to ramsy solutions.com Cru or click the link in the description

if you're listening on YouTube podcast I

also have mad respect for anyone using a fitness center on a cruise I'll be there

you and delone will be in there lifting powerlifting some would call it um all

four days out of the seven days I will be in the gym Jade and I will got to hit the weights man I think Jade and I should lead Zumba classes F Center great

that'd be fantastic there we go yeah all

right very that's more my speed all right very nice all right let's get to the phones 88255

225 Sally is joining us now in New

Orleans Louisiana Sally how can we help

hi guys I am in the middle of a lawsuit

I joined national debt relief and a year

later I'm being sued by one of the credit card companies that put into the program and I've listened to what Dave

has said about offering a 50% cash um

direct offer to the companies but at

this point with us in legal um legal

situations my question is should I

circumnavigate and go around my legal

representation through national debt

relief to make a direct offer myself to

those companies and try to get us out of

this mess without too much of a of a

bleed on the back end for me o well let

me recap for those that are confused about what's going on here with this national debt relief I I think this is

how they approach it they go hey let us

handle it you don't make any more payments you make those payments to us

and let your credit card debt go into default the collectors will come after you your credit Will implode and then we'll settle on the back end is that how

it goes they've taken care of three of my

four beautifully but number four they've

dropped the ball on and now you're getting sued how far are you into the

lawsuit a week okay have you talked to your your

legal representation about trying to just settle this outside of court I I

have talked to him before um he was the

one that brought brought to my attention the reason why they haven't made um a

successful settlement already and it was

because I didn't have enough money in this the savings account with national debt relief and the comment that I keep

being given is don't worry we're taking care of this for you you might have to put more money in but we're taking care of this for you St giving these people a dime I don't like these companies I

think they're scummy and you can do the same thing on your own you don't need

these companies to do this for you my

fear is they do bring certain skills to

the table that I don't necessarily have such as the negotiation skills and specifically because we are in legal

lawsuit at this point if I drop if I

pull discover from their program I lose

my representation because they're the ones representing you have you talked have

you talked to your represent

he hasn't really been able to give me too much additional information than what they have he's kind of a I would

just go call the company they're not

doing you any favors here no more money

they want you they want to keep stringing you along because that means more money in their pockets yeah so I'm

going to jump in really quick here S I

would be on the phone with them saying I want to talk to you I want a phone call

with whoever your person is there uh

your customer service rep and whoever this represent a is I want a call I've

already paid you x amount of dollars and

I'm in this mess cuz you all dropped the ball if I heard you correctly is that right yes so at this point I've already

tried calling national debt release several times I have not been able to get a supervisor they tell me they'll call me back you don't I have talked to the lawyer my lawyer has been in communication with me as well as his paralal but at this point I took the

last 5 days to devise my own plan to

come up with the the 50% and according

to a lawyer we have 30 um 3 months

before judge makes final final rendering

final judgment what I want to do is I

want to approach that credit card company and be like look in the 90 days

in the three months I will give you 50%

right here right now in cash what do you

owe in total 18 18,000 what was all this

debt for to begin with I jumped into on my running my

business before I got laid off of Co and

I had eared already had a part-time company I was running and I ran that full-time so it was good decision or good intentions bad

decisions I just feel like we're not changing any habits here we went into this debt knowing we couldn't pay it back and then we use this company to get a deal on the debt and I just want I want you to take some ownership and go

you're unemployed I have no no I I'm I

have taken ownership I actually fulltime

fully employed as of November I've gotten about 80% of all of my my debts

worked out and straightened out this is a Las thing hang out it sounds like you've got 9,000 cash in hand is that

that's what you're going to make the settlement offer on correct correct well

I like that George she's taking some responsibility I would just go around them then and say I've got nine grand can we settle this can we drop the lawsuit and be done with this it's the last debt and they'll take I do this before do I do this before I drop

national debt relief or do I keep them in my back pocket well if the debts if the debts not if it's noted as paid in full there's no reason to use them anymore okay don't tell them anything but to

your question the first action is you go

directly to the credit card and get it settled okay and here's the thing I

don't know the fine print of these contracts that you sign so I would read the fine print you might need to get outside representation a lawyer that

doesn't work for that company to look this over so we are not lawyers yeah but

we can't give you the advice on that there mayck growing up that's as close

as Ken got which is pretty good actually I mean Andy Griffith's fantastic Sally I

hope you can clear this up I hope the nine grand does it and and I hope you never use these companies again and I hope you've cut up the cards but man

that would stress me out so that's how these companies work and they say hey don't make the payments anymore Let it go into default let them sue you then

we'll Settle yeah I don't like any of

this you can pay off the debt yourself you can settle yourself you don't need to pay these scummy companies by the way that was a commercial for George that

phone call to never take those Services here's why she's called the she can't get a supervisor on the phone oh they'll call you back let me tell you something the supervisor doesn't exist there's a

guy going hold on one second and he's like doing his fantasy football team for

five minutes to make you think that he's trying to get a hold of super the office I'm you know what he's not going to be able to get with you ever oh it's a he

doesn't exist he doesn't exist all right

I tell you who exists we do we'll be

right back this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George camel is alongside the phone number is 8825 5225 Allison is up

in Philadelphia Pennsylvania Allison how

can we help hi good afternoon guys thanks for

taking my my call um I just want to give

a little background of what I'm asking about um I'm getting my boyfriend just

under two years and we have definitely

talked about the future together um you

know and the next step would be living

together uh we feel rent is just a waste

of money we like to buy a house um neither of us are in the financial state to buy a house um his parents have

graciously offered to basically have us

buy their house from them um for 350,000

which is you know pennies in this market

uh with the agreement of if we were to ever sell that we would have to split

the difference with them whose

parents my boyfriend's parents this is

an awful

idea that's why I'm calling um did you

feel like it was an awful idea when you called or did you think it was a great idea and you're just being nice to my really D

response um I was kind of 5050 um you

know I came from a divorce house and my

parents argued about money every single

day uh my boyfriend's parents are still

together they lived middle class so did we um I also have like student debt my

boyfriend doesn't have any so I'm just trying to I guess think of the future um I'm

also thinking am I going to sign off on

a mortgage without an engagement so I know that's playing into it um yeah

those are all legit questions it's I

mean George can go telling you red flag

red flag red flag don't do this it's not the opportunity you think it is and also

you splitting the difference with them what happens if you stay in this for 10 or 20 years and this house becomes worth a million bucks and you just gave away

300 Grand right you see how convoluted it is

can I give you an alternate Vision can I

do that Alison yeah I'm I'm all ears I'm

willing yeah here's the alternate

Vision you and your boyfriend uh don't

live together until you get married and

when you get married you join

finances and maybe you attack a lot of

that debt before you ever put a ring on

it and you get debt free and you guys

rent for two years or whatever it's

going to take three years to get a good down payment George will walk you through that formula of what we recommend but we just take our time and

we're not thinking things like oh what a waste of time us actually being married

and not owning a home and and just have

this alternate vision for hey we can

take our time and and move into this and

not be saddled with you know a really

weird uh clunky Arrangement and George

explain uh our formula on all this well

what you're looking for is 25% of your

take home pay going toward the mortgage and that's with two married people and

there's a lot of issues with uh doing

this before your married there's a lot of issues doing this with his parents involved and them having a financial gain in this it just gets real messy

what happens when you got or if you guys

break up and now not only are you hey

I'm on the mortgage he stopped paying but now the parents are involved with the sale of the house and they don't like me because I don't their boy it's

just a mess and I hope that doesn't

happen I hope you guys stay together forever but the next logical step is not

let's live together and buy a house even though we're broke the next logical step is how do we get out of debt how can we

take steps toward marriage and then once we're in a good financial position we buy a house but right now what's clouding your judgment is this quote deal that you're getting on this

house um it's not that I mean I'm going

to be 32 soon and he's going to be 36 in

a month so we're kind of thinking you know we want to get married you want to start a family start a life together um

the market right now is just but you

don't have to buy this house this has nothing to do with the market what let me tell you what happens because I know these stories you guys move in together to this new house and for four more

years you talk about getting married

because guess what now you've kind of already played house what's the point of getting married why the rush and we're

broke so we can't pay for a wedding and

therefore you're going to build up resentment and that's going to not end well for this relationship and so we're

just showing you what happens on the other side we're not trying to be naysayers we just get too many calls

when people hoped it would work out a certain way and then life

happened right I I get it and I you know

like I said you know I I came from divorced parents I'm personally in debt

um I'm working extremely hard to tackle

and just get rid of it so him and I

don't have to worry about about it um and he is a complete opposite doesn't have any debt didn't have to worry about

um parents Financial struggle so you

know we're coming from two totally

different point of views and when I bring up to him um you know I don't want

to find a mortgage away if I'm not engaged like I need at least a commitment what does he say to that

um he he kind of I don't want to say he

danced around the idea but he like he

goes well we're going to do it eventually like we're going to be together like you know but I really want

to live together before we do I'm like yeah me too but if I'm going to sign a mortgage without a ring like I don't see

how that's fair to me yeah you're right

don't I'm not going to get into my traditional views of all this but you

certainly should not sign a mortgage

when you were not legally married to him

that's to yeah yeah I mean at first I

was like I don't want to buy a house unless we're married and then I compromise with I need at least an engagement so I know it's coming no don't compromise and don't compromise

make him listen you got the leverage

sister he needs to step up right need to

step his game up is he gonna is he gonna pop the question or not you should play

this back for him on YouTube I'll tell him I'm the bad guy today I don't care

man up bro put a ring on it don't put

pressure on her to get into a ill-advised deal what's wrong with you and to use

this as leverage to hang over your head is just strange and manipulative it's weak say well once we move in then I'll

propose I want to try it out I want to I

want to live with you for a while before I decide to commit to you this is what's wrong with men in America today we got all these freaking women walking around that have got a lot to offer and they're

in their 30s and they can't get married because you got a bunch of freaking

children posing as

men we got a man problem in the United

States and and women you know what you

ought to do just tell these guys go

pound sand I'm not going to live with

you I'm not even gonna date you for a long time if you don't show some daggum

commitment uh I I just got to tell you

George I I get a little irritated with

it and this is a problem and he's in his

30s Alison right you he's 36 he's a

Manchild why doesn't he just buy the

house on his own he's so financially

well off there's a

notion right he doesn't have the money

right I think I shocked

Allison yeah um I I do know I I want

need to say like he has been the I know

this has probably sound contradictory but um he has been like the most amazing

partner I could have ever asked for and

like we don't have any issues um but you

know when it comes to like this is where

but when it comes to this like we obviously have two um standpoints he's

he's seeing it as let's get the you know

the living situation on the road and we can finally move forward and be together

and first like renting renting is one

thing but like a a mortgage I don't know

I it doesn't fit right with me I thought we told you that Allison don't keep waffling on this and listen he may be a

great boyfriend but he's a boy and until

he starts acting like a man I'm GNA tell you something I wouldn't do any of this with him I wouldn't do I wouldn't do any

I wouldn't move in with him either and

if that means you're renting don't look at that as throwing away money on rent you're buying patience if you have to get two or three roommates until this is all figured out and you guys are married I'm okay with that that's how I I did it

before I was married and it worked out

great and it really helps you avoid so

many issues that can come up when you

jump into this next step which is the biggest Financial move you will ever make in your life is buying this house and doing it with someone you're not married to is a recipe for disaster all right I'm GNA I got to ask you what's

this If This Were a dating show okay

what's your statute of limitations if I

if I can borrow a phrase on how long a

guy should be in a serious relationship

like this before we start to say hey

dude you have commitment issues here's what I'll say what's the length of time if it's High School sweethearts I think you can get more time if you're in your 30s I give it two to three years Max oh

that's way Eng long two to three years

Max I think a year I think 12 months if

you're in your 30s and you've been seriously dating someone for a year if

you can't decide by that point whether or not they're a life partner I like getting past the first year that's when you finally have your first fight the first year all gumdrops and rainbows no

I think that's about a 3mon period you got to know how they fight conflict is everything you got to know how they fight before you say yes yeah all right

Ken's an old man but I think we're on the same page I believe in commitment

been married 26 years I Believe in a Thing Called Love Stuff it this is the

Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George Campell is with me and we

are here for you 8825 5225 is the phone

number 8825 5225 Portland Main is where John is

waiting John how can we help

today yes hi how are you thanks for

taking my call you bet what's up so I'm

looking to make the right decision here

I've made a lot of right decisions and a lot of wrong decisions over the years but uh we've been you know paying a lot

of stuff off we at the end of baby step

two I have a side hustle and a full-time

uh Municipal job and the side hustle is

growing and growing fast we've we've

gone from two cars down to one as we've

paid off a lot of stuff nice but I'm at the point where I kind of need a second vehicle to get to some of these side hustle jobs and the opportunity to make

a lot more money almost double through

the side hustle what's the side hustle do you mind we ask so I install

emergency vehicle equipment emergency

lights Sirens police cars fire Vehicles

no kidding so a lot of your customers I guess are municipalities and counties oh

yeah a lot of them correct very cool and

so if I understand you correctly you

need a you you paid off car you sold a

car but you're down to one vehicle and

you need a another vehicle just to allow

you to get to the work and that will allow you to double your income yeah so I've recently changed the

business model a little bit instead of building full police cars for municipalities I've turned and I've

found it more profitable to do what I would call service work say a department

needs 10 new computers installed and

already built it's kind of like doing brakes and struts instead of engines if

if you want to think of it that way it's just simpler and you can knock more out nice correct yeah so the money has been

great over the last you know few months

um in going forward looks great but it

takes me a little bit further away from the house though sharing a vehicle with

my wife and four kids um go ahead and

ask a question oh what's left on the debt one vehicle right now the a Ford Expedition for the family uh wife and

poor kids she stays home in homeschools

they do co-ops during the day while I'm at work so they do use the vehicle to go

to different different and it's worth

about 35 and we owe about 27 and we've

paid off a lot of credit card debt a lot of other debt and that's all that's left

how much more money would you be making per month if you uh can add these new

clients probably

on the low side it 3 to 4,000 more a

month if I can get to like two of these

jobs a month that are a little bit further away what if you slowed down

your payoff of this car in order to use

that cash to buy a used car to get you from point A to point B so another to

put to give you the full picture another thing because I found the ramsy show about month and a half ago we were already doing a very very similar

process but I've been investing 8 to 10%

of my pay for since I've been with the city here for eight years so my other

question is should I pause that which

would add $450 a month onto our payoff

plan there's already $150,000 in a 457a

should I pause that for a year or so while I get these the rest of these paid off yes okay regardless of your situation we

tell folks to pause investing during baby step two because of the

accelerate yeah it definitely so there's

for to put it in perspective the I was looking at was about $122,000 for the

business I would buy it and write it off with my L Fe do you need a specific car

for this business no I need something

this I'm looking at an ecosport something very small good on gas me in a

tool bag me in a toolbox I don't want

anything I feel like you don't need to spend 12 Grand to get just a car from A

to B if it's not like a work truck so

are there are there things that are in the 5 to 6,000 range I'm going to try

the six to eight uh to get that a decent

little eco car I think you could do that

so yeah yeah no I I definitely hear what

you're saying especially with the automotive mind my the only other thing

I've thought about which is crazy to think about is that my oldest is 10 now

like buying this $122,000 vehicle there's a job coming up that I could take that's a week long that would I'd travel to in December for a week and

probably make 13 in that week to pay and

pay well here's the deal what does that have to do with the

10-year-old this could be his first car

if I buy something that's going to last five years oh I I get that I get that

this might be a six-month car and you might upgrade once you're out of debt upgrade to a little bit better and then upgrade to a little bit better and the chances are he's going to want a different car that's his that he gets to go shopping with you yeah we're trying to save you 6,000 now I'd rather save

you that kind of money now and then you know six years from now a whole different ball game yeah I understand that makes sense

to me yeah so John what I would do if I

was in your shoes is I would pause investing I'd slow down the steps in

order to save up real quick and get you a beater car to then increase yeah and

increase the speed of the baby steps

yeah are you did you say you're mechanical you like you can fix cars

yeah oh let me tell you even better I I

I can barely put gas in a car all right full admission I have no skill at all

but if I had your skill I'd absolutely

be looking at something you know really

really cheap because you can fix it up

and keep that thing moving you know

something with like major gas mileage

it's just you yeah you

know we also uh we bought our house back

in 2013 when the market was the opposite

of what it is now so we're in a really good position there as well great sounds

like you're doing great welcome welcome to the tribe uh you're doing great yeah

and uh car is just the last thing you know and I think later on this might

become your fulltime Gig if you want it to be could you do this full-time could

be oh I could um the stress of running

the own business and this is kind of a

good work life balance I didn't grow up with any structure nor did my wife so we're trying to give the city job gives that to the to the family and then the

side hustle has been great too what's your biggest stressor as a solar

preneur so doing the full police cars

they could take doing them on the side I could have a one vehicle apart for three to four weeks and it's like when my mind's on the project it's on I can't

get it off the project till it's done I

got that so shifting to this new type of

work where I go to the you know I go for a day or two or three and when I leave all the work's done and I don't think about it so I I have found ways to

to make that better but uh longterm I

call it the best of both worlds right now but you all right that could change in four or five years you might be able to find a guy who's also mechanically handy and you delegate it and you have a little team and who knows I like that

idea get know I tell you what if I'm him

again you look for some young dude coming out of high school that needs to

prove to his parents that that he could make good money as a mechanic and doesn't want to go to college i' I'd get that kid in there and doesn't want to work in the traditional mechanic role this sounds like a cool you know you get to be a part of a startup business make good money throw that thing wow side

thought but I like it riches and the niches Ken uh I like oh is it you're so

happy with yourself I wish if you

weren't watching on YouTube you should have seen how Smiley you were when you

said that did you like think about that

phrase today before say it first gonna

be honest you love a good rhyme I'm sick with Envy it's what is uh can we help

Renee real quick George all right let's try Renee is in Fresno Renee how can we

help hi there I was calling because I'm

currently in baby St number two but

we're actually probably going to have all of our uh be out of that step by

next year like mid next year and I was

calling because my husband retired from the Navy and we found out in his retirement that if our girls go to

college in California any UC or state

school their college is completely paid for amazing so yes so I'm still

wondering if I should be saving for

either a college fund or put a savings

account for each of them in a high yield savings account in case they either want to go out of state or maybe towards a

master's program I'm just kind of trying

to think down the road I would but I

would not until you're out of debt with an emergency fund and you're investing 15% for your own

retirement okay otherwise there might be

extra things living expenses books who

knows what they might need to cover I would work with them to create a plan to work and save along with Mom and Dad

working the money plan okay okay perfect I think that was out

everything that's incredible fantastic

thank you so much Renee for the call and

we also need the stipulation you are going to one of these instate schools that's completely paid for we don't get to choose but I really want to go to XYZ

private school across the country well

you better have the money to pay for that cuz Mom and Dad ain't paying yeah yeah especially in this situation absolutely they need to know the value of of what that education will do for them debt free and if they need that go

watch borrowed future on YouTube it's a

documentary we we created completely free to watch it will change the game with these conversations and Ken you do a great job in it laying out some facts

well you know we're we're in a world today where the the value of a degree is

increasingly fading with the American

people and we're starting to see that it's fading within the workplace with many many major organizations uh within

different Industries saying we don't require a college degree anymore so so the more you pay the more you go into debt for it the less RI yeah good stuff

all right great shacket today George it

matches your glasses that's always a pro

move thanks for hanging this hour this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause] today this is the Ramsey show where we

help you win in your life we help you win with your money win in your professional journey and win in your relationships 88255 225 is

the phone number number 8825 5225 I'm

Ken Coleman George camel is with me it's

Coleman camel time and we are here for

you let's get to the phones Jeff is on

the line in Denver Colorado Jeff how can

we home how you guys doing good how are you

good um so I got a question for you guys

I started fixing flipping houses this

year as like a side hustle uh my second

house is about to hit the Market within

the next week um but my question is like I'm going to have about $160,000 in profit once this sells is my

estimated uh profit how do I Shield

myself from this massive tax bill that's

going to be coming my way how massive is

it have you actually done the math yeah

I'll be about 160,000 of profit that I

I'll need to pay taxes on no he's asking have you done the math on your taxes but

you know depending on your bracket what your marginal tax rate is versus effective tax rate are we talking you know 16% of that I don't know what the

taxes are in Colorado yeah I'll be about 20% of that

okay have you already figured in like

you have existing expenses just on the

actual renovation uh not yet okay well that's

first thing you I hope you got some accurate you you got some accurate records on all that you spent correct yep I got everything documented

of what do you think what do you think the ballpark is um

like the we put 160,000 into this last

property okay well you put 160 in and you got 160

out uh 160 is from both properties um

I'm I think I made I'll profit about

880,000 from that first property and about 80,000 from the second property well you said you put 160

in into the investment yeah to to flip

it this is bad math it's telling me that

you're not making money in this business so let's let's start over Jeff either I've confused you or you're not tracking with us okay okay so you you you got one

house that you're saying or is it two

houses that you're saying you've got the total profit of

160 two houses so I sold the house in

February this year and I'll profit

880,000 on that um I I profited 80,000

on that house and then this the second house is about to hit the market and I

should profit about 880,000 on that okay is

that after getting your money back from your initial investment correct okay all

right I got scared I was like oh no I did it wasn't making sense okay so the

bottom line is you need to get with a tax Pro George and I are not tax Pros

Ramsey solutions.com great place for you

to see uh a good list of tax pros and I

would contact they'll help you find every legal nook and cranny to go where

what can I you know write off as a deduction from this B is it through an LLC you're doing this correct yeah okay

but the reason we want you to go to a Ramsay preferred or you know the

approved tax Pro is because a lot of

accountants and tax people out there

will try to get you to spend money just

to lessen your tax bill and to me that's

about the most mind-numbingly stupid advice I've ever heard you know well go

buy this and bu bu G wagon for 130 Grand

just to save money on taxes no save the

money and pay Uncle Sam you know and

that's just how it is so with your regular expenses everything else that's

what you're looking for but don't get sucked into that idea just a warning

okay that's good because yeah I was people have told me go buy a new truck and I'm like I don't need a new truck

thank you never spend to save yeah spend

money to save money it makes no sense so

uh you're a good man appreciate the call and congrats on uh flipping the houses

there yeah and just set aside that money

and put it away in a high yield savings account and then be ready to pay that with your quarterly estimated payments don't wait you know a year year and a half to make these tax uh bills make

sure that you're paying that quarterly through the IRS website to avoid any uh

fees and penalties all right Sarah's up

next in Detroit Michigan Sarah how can we help hi thank you for taking my call I'm

a tad nervous so I apologize you're doing great I thanks I'm very nervous um

so I was wondering if it would be in my

best interest to take money out of my

brokerage accounts to pay off my Parent

PLUS Loan how much is in the brokerage

account uh the two brokerage accounts um

are about 90 uh let's see they're about

93,000 okay and how much left on The Parent Plus Loans well uh I'd say about 68,000 I

just started paying the share okay and

what were you saving up in this brokerage account for because this is non-retirement you're just investing on

the side yeah I just when I first got married 29

years ago I just opened up some IRAs and

this joint this brokerage account which I didn't realize what it was until just recently I just put that money away and

I never touched it good well the good

news is this is likely long-term capital gains and so won't be you know a crazy

tax bill but you will have to pay taxes on the growth of this money so I would

pull out that 68,000 be ready to pay the

taxes on that and be done with this debt

get it out of your life andan the interest tra on these payent Plus Loans is excruciating yeah it's like 7% and I

want to pay it because in the long run

for one I don't want to give the government any more than money than I have to amen and um that's going to like

double by the time I get them paying it off so that's why I you have the money I

would just go ahead and pay it and it's going to hurt a little bit because you've worked hard to invest and save this money but it's for a purpose and right now that purpose is to pay off debt and for the rest of your life it

will be to instead build wealth and

leave a legacy and so I'm sorry that you

gotta use it for something not fun but

that's that's kind of the price we paid when we signed up to pay Junior's

College I know I know so I was worried

because I don't know how to figure out the capital gains but um but um that's a

simple fix I'll try and do that on my own yeah it's a simple fix you can reach out to a Ramsey trusted taxpro at Ramsey

solutions.com they can help you figure

out what you're going to owe and help you figure out what you need to set aside in order to pay this tax bill but

it's not going to be anything life changing um it's not going to be a you

know 25 $30,000 bill so you don't have

to worry about that okay but you have

the money to

pay well I was thinking if I take out

the full 93 I'm going to save some back

to pay for the taxes sure you may not

need use the whole 93 if you don't need to use the whole 93 you don't need to pull it all out right now if you have

other goals I was going to pay off my credit card debt oh my goodness you bury the lead Sarah there's the story do you have any other debt you'd like to disclose

I have other debt but no one asked me that um yeah I mean I I you're the best

Sarah I listen to your program so I

know you should she she listens so she

knows what to reveal and what not to reveal she don't want our advice these

other things just that one I would pull

as much as you need to pay off all of your debt and pay any taxes

due yeah because I still have a bunch of

401s and stuff so retirement so s would

the 93 make you completely debt free

[Music] um it would it would probably pay off

everything but my cars and my mortgage

all right that's a start yeah how old

are you well I'm 58 I'm old what does where

does 6 where does 60-year-old Sarah want

to be does she want to be dee when did 58 become old I don't know Ken is I'm

married too so okay yeah I'd make a plan

with your spouse and go hey let's go into our 60s completely dead free let's

have let's have a retirement that we're proud of a legacy we're proud of and not having to scrape by so that's what I would be aiming for and liquidating this brokerage account is one step toward that we're proud of you yeah thanks for the call 58 is not old cuz that hurts

Ken's feelings well to be clear I just turned 50 all right so you know it's all

perspective halfway to 100 Ken just saying thank you George this is the

ramsy show

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George camel is alongside the

phone number for you to jump in is 88255

225 it's time for a question of the day

George and today's question of the day

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in all states today's question comes

from Colin in New Hampshire I recently

got my license to be an architect I'll

be having a conversation soon with my bosses about a new role and responsibilities which should include an increase in Pay I have no reason to

suspect that my employer would underpay me however I would like to go into that meeting with an idea of what a fair salary would be looking at the numbers online they range anywhere from 65 Which

is less than I make now all the way up to 100K I understand there are nuances

to salary such as years in the field or type of experience this makes it difficult to gauge quote unquote fair I

want to manage my expectations of what I should be making where can I find accurate salary data to know what fair

is yeah good question here from Colin

and and I would just focus on the fair

part of this uh the the the fair part is

is really the wrong thing to be focusing on you've got to set your range based on

what you're making now and so he's saying the low range is 65 so he's

already done his homework so wherever you got this information uh is the same

place that you're going to look at for what's right for me so you're just looking at comparative salary analysis for for people with experience and skill

set similar to yours and you're going to look at where you're at on the Range so he's already given us the homework so 65

on the lowend 100K on the front on the

on the high end and so where do you fit

in that range uh of salary and so if

you're in that range of 80 um then I

would ask for the full I would go to the full number maybe go a little higher because they can always come down so maybe if you felt like all right I I feel like accurately I could I could

command an $80,000 salary I'm going to

ask for 85 that that's what I would do so aim a

little bit higher a little higher give that company a little room to come back

with a counter yeah and uh you got to

know what your number is where you go I would not feel good I would feel resentful coming into the office every day now hopefully that again is based on

viable information which Colin has gone out and done the research and he said I

just got my license which tells me he

might be more entry level so I wouldn't expect the full 100K but I'd also want to know when I go in what does a growth plan look like to grow in this role what

is that ladder if I want to step in and

have more responsibility that would at least help me not flounder in the role

going well I should be making more well who said that's right that's exactly right so good question really good question uh to the phones we gole 88255

225 Rachel joins us uh she hails from

the Washington DC area Rachel how can we

help hi um I'm

um I'm in a pickle um and I um really

don't know what to do okay um so

I am um right now I'm actually currently

overseas and um in

asah and um because

um my husband I I guess I too believe

like the US the cost of living in the US is

outrageous um and so um we're overseas

just to kind of get the cost of living

down um we are currently living off of

like VA benefits veterans benefits right

now okay and um hband has a what how

much are your benefit pay

pays total four grand a month and that's

what you're living off of that's from your husband's service or your

service husband okay all right keep

going and then um

so that's why we're we're currently here

um however um I recently got a job

offer that pays a

sipen and room and board

um 18,000 site then um and then housing

and what about salary yeah

and yeah so it's it's 18 for the

Academic Year so nine months okay I'm I'm I'm confused Rachel

what is the job that you just got offered why you tell us where that is

it's it's a residential hall director at

a university and so you're only going to make an $188,000 that's what the stipend

is

yeah and then they provide housing and

meals and meals okay all right and so

what is the what is the Dilemma should you this is in the US I'm understanding

yes okay so what's the Dilemma

us where are you at where's your husband

at um working no no I'm sorry where is your

husband on this idea of you moving back to the states where are you at on on

moving back to the States it feels like you want to do this but I'm just getting

Clarity yes I I want to that's the thing

like I want to honor respect my husband

um I'm you know I'm

Christian

um however like we've done this before

and I developed a lot of anxiety

overseas being away from friends family

okay so Rachel let me let me jump in he wants to stay you want to go yeah thank you is that

right yeah does he know that it's

causing you all this anxiety I assume this relationship is not going great

overseas yeah ex yeah so if I'm him I

want a better marriage and therefore I'm gonna compromise and go okay let's go

back to the US and figure out how to afford to live there because living

overseas is not the solution to the cost

of living issue so how can we help you

the reason okay

there just a lot I know I know sweetheart we're we we have about three minutes and so we want to try to help

you how can we weigh in where would you like us to weigh in so my husband has a real estate

business um I use that kind of whitly

not really but kind of so last year he

made 100 Grand but he got the properties

in 2022 and then sold them in 2023 and

are the real estate is the business in the United States or overseas yes in the US and he's managing

all of this

overseas yes okay keep

going and um anyways um so but he he

hasn't made an income in a year now um

so if we I'm in the Dilemma of like do I

stay overseas to support him and his

business or do we move back to the

US I don't I don't understand how you

staying in Asia supports his business

when his business has not made money in

the last year it's in the United States

it's across the world Rachel I am so confused about all of the details around

this except for one thing I'm not confused about you guys have a massive

massive marriage issue and you got your

husband who wants to stay in the in the

in the state overseas and it stresses

you out and you've done this once before

so we got a track record you don't want to live overseas he wants to live overseas you're willing to go get an

$188,000 stip to be an RA just to escape

wherever you are this is not good we

have to get on the same page quickly

well the reason the reason why I wanted

to take the um the job at the university

is so that we could save the four grand

a month okay but would he move with you

would he move with you

yes so that's what you wanted our

opinion on is should you take an $18,000

stiping to get out of wherever you are

you guys were making 150 Grand between his business and the VA benefits so this

is not a cost of living issue you guys need to move back to the

US and both get normal jobs yeah that's

and stop finding weird shortcuts yeah

and like taking this well we can save

the 4,000 so he doesn't have to work I

it just the whole thing is so anti to

what we believe here yeah move back and

start working and get a marriage therapist

quickly this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George camel is alongside the

phone number is 88255

225 we'd love to take your calls about

your money uh your professional Journey

your work so we can make more money and

your relationships 8825 5225 all right I

want you to think about something for me George you ready okay can you be imaginative there he's closed his eyes it's good I want you to look up a year from today and you finally accomplished

all the things that really matter to you how's it make you feel George amazing

accomplished I'm floating yeah absolutely does that involve going on vacation with me that would be a dream actually the colan's vacation well I

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solutions.com store all right Brian is

up in Boston Massachusetts Brian how can we help today yeah hi thank you so much for

taking my call so I did have a question

for you um I currently own two homes our

primary home that we live in we owe

about 223,000 uh left and we do have a rental

property uh that is paid for

unfortunately I took a line of credit I

uh accumulated about $125,000 in debt there and I have about

another $35,000 in credit card uh my question to

you is should I consider uh selling the

rental property uh to pay off my debt

and uh pay down uh what I primarily own

on my primary home or continue using

that as an investment um which is

bringing in monthly income every single month if it's bringing in monthly income you wouldn't be upside down going into debt every month so clearly it's not the investment

we wanted it to be what have you been spending this money

on uh the the line of credit was when we

moved into the home uh we didn't have uh

uh we didn't plan correctly should I say

we ended up spending more moving into a

much more aenial neighborhood um and we

did I think overspent to I would say so

I'd have a hard time blowing 120 Grand on a move in and what about the 35,000

in credit cards uh that part of that was a program

that I decided to take and uh the rest

has just uh at times I may need to use

the credit card to help of that's what I'm saying if this was

such an income blessing in your life you wouldn't have to turn to the credit card to spend and so that tells me we have some spending issues and habits here

that we need to fix and so I would

probably recommend selling this rental what can you get for it uh right now I could sell it for

about 375 after taxes and realtor fees

maybe get about 310 okay so let's say you took 310 and

you paid off the line of credit that's 125 you paid off the credit card that's 150 that leaves you with another 150 to

throw out your mortgage leaving you with about 75 left on the

mortgage correct and frees up those

payments right frees up the credit card payments you making frees up the line of credit payments what is your household

income without the rental I myself

without without the rental I make uh

depending how much overtime I work uh

anywhere between 150 to 250 a year and

my wife around 120 nice amazing so you

guys were making yeah 370 yeah and you couldn't cash flow any

of this yeah I think uh I uh we've always

been struggling ever since I was 12 I've

been working uh this is not a work issue you

got a spending issue if you're blowing through 370 and going into

debt that's the part we need to focus on

here and I think selling the rental is just one step and getting us a clean slate but as soon as that's done we need

to refocus our habits and go we work too

hard to be this broke would you

agree I would I would agree you guys

have been working your tails off I think that I partially these past uh several

years we've been able to uh putting away

for retirement I think I was just going about it the wrong way so we've saved up

about 750,000 wow but of course that's in

that's in retirement that's you know I can't touch that money yeah you so

you've been how much you've been putting away a month towards

retirement uh we the past I don't know

four or five years we've been putting away we've been maxing out okay well the

good news is your investing muscle is

strong you've got a great investing arm

but you're atrophied at your spending

muscles that's where all this is getting

burnt and so I do think you can keep

investing but I would definitely ratchet

it down to 15% once everything's sold

make sure you have an emergency fund get completely debt free outside of your mortgage that's left and then invest 15%

and let's start attacking this mortgage and be done with that probably within a year you could be done making 370 with

70 left would you agree we can knock out

the mortgage I I would I would I

definitely agree I guess my my concern

on selling the rental property is I

always viewed it as a safety net um um

not to get into pass but my father

always had a gambling problem and so I've always been afraid of of being

without you've been tearing holes in your safety net with this line of credit and so it's if you're telling me it's a safety net it's not

all right so I would find your own safety net that's an e Property not the

line of credit right I totally agree with you I'm just saying if you're

leveraged up to your eyeballs there's no safety in just owning that asset when

there's all this debt attached and the rental property is not spitting off enough profit what what are you making per month after all expenses on the rental property on the rental property um after

you pay your line of credit oh after I pray uh I was making

23 so here's the other dilemma I have

2350 is what I was making on it um of

course I then would have to pay the line of credit which is uh was around 12

or300 um so we're doing all this for

about 10 grand a

year uh yeah correct if I were to do

college students I can uh bring in about

uh 4500 a month no it's not the point is

it's we're trying to help you see it's not worth it this is a great opportunity for you to your overtime is much better

Roi than making the 10 grand managing a

property sell the house it's not it's not getting you the ROI that if you want

real estate down the line wait until your house is paid off and then save up cash with this amazing income and no debt payments and you will be buying up real estate in no time and the 100% cash

flow is going to help you buy the next one and the next one and yes it's a slower route but it doesn't lead us to where we are today making a crap ton of

money with not a lot to show for it

going into debt every single month so I

wish you the best changing your family tree Brian it sounds like you want to you don't want to live the same life that your parents lived you want to leave a different Legacy and that's going to take creating different habits so I'm going to send you a copy of my book Breaking Free from broke I hope it

convinces you that the debt system is not a path to wealth or peace and that

you can live outside of it so hang on the line Christian will pick up we'll send you a copy of that best of luck to you with the sale of this rental yeah and getting completely debt free and he can clean this up the shovel is amazing Ken making 370 households and he has he

has saved a a really nice Chunk in

retirement so it's not like he's you know unstable it's just a the system

he's been or lack of a system I guess I

would say is that he's employing is not as effective as it should be but he's

done a good job and to your point the money's there but I would get out of this thing now and I I talk about the flat tire analogy some people are really

good at saving and investing but they have spending habits and that's a leak in the boat we got to fix that's a flat

tire and so I like being well-rounded where we're giving we're saving we're

investing we're spending we can do all

of those things but it has to be well-rounded and the right ratios at the right time yeah because it does pay off

it really does it doesn't seem like you've got a great strategy until you wake up 20 years in and you realize

you're AE of everybody else and Ken you work out you understand you can't just do leg day you're going to look weird

that's absolutely you got to do some full body stuff can't Skip Leg Day either you know you can't have you seen these guys at the gym with a giant upper body and their legs look like noodles

yeah I'm right here you don't have to talk about me like that my noodle legs

my skinny jeans that's fantastic all

right George is gonna do some squats during the break and we'll be back before you know it this is the ramsy show [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show thrilled to have you with us I'm Ken Coleman uh

George Campell is with me Triple 8825

5225 um we got to mention this network

app really quick because this is so fun

kind of a new thing and I want to mention it on the front end very quickly

um as we will wrap up this hour of the

show uh people need to know that uh if

you're listening on radio we'll continue

uh but if you're on podcast or YouTube

this is it uh for what you're going to get today but you can get the rest of the calls and we got a great lineup here as I'm looking on the board some great calls coming up you can get it uh on the

Ramsay Network app you can get that in the app store Google Play I just want to mention that real quick as we head into this segment instead of mentioning it at the end uh run out of time that's right

lest we run out of time very good was

the last time you used well I love the word L it doesn't get used very often I

don't think many people your age even know what it is you bring out the best to me Ken thank you let's go to trayon

in Indianapolis who is joining us now

tradon how can we help hey thanks for

taking my call you bet uh here's uh

here's my question for you so I just

started my fourth year of college for my

degree in criminal justice but I

recently found out I'm going to have to

take at least an extra two years after

this one to finish my bachelor's degree

I just started a new job where I'm

making $100,000 a year right now

fulltime with the option to get upwards

of 150,000 so I guess my question is is it

worth it to continue with school to get my degree that I most likely won't use

or drop out and pursue my career well

the way you just positioned it no it's

not worth it to stay but let me backtrack a little bit why are you being told all of a sudden that you need two more years for a total of six years for

your criminal justice degree well uh during my sophomore year

I had uh I lost one of my good friends

of mine and it I didn't Focus that much

on school so that's Pro that's where I

got behind oh I see so you said you just

found out it wasn't like the school dropped this on you this is just you don't have as many credits as you need

yeah okay okay well what's the job

you're doing now where you're making 100 Grand with the potential to make1 15

uh I'm a pipe citter fantastic do you

like it I love it oh man that done give

me my gavel and my robe George uh the

jury has spoken I absolutely would drop out of college okay what's the other

alternative here you you're in school for three more years to get a criminal justice job that pays half of what you're making now yeah yeah yeah no what

sense does that make does that make any sense to you

tradon what was that does it make any

sense to you to stay in you called us

it's your call do you think it makes any

sense okay unless you said I hate this

pipe fitting job I really love criminal

justice I need to do this it doesn't

sound like that's the case did you kind of fall into well I guess I'll do criminal justice where did this come from uh I used to I I always wanted to

do it and then now more

recently with you know how cops are

looked at nowadays and everything like that I just don't and the pay cut and I

love what I'm doing right now I absolutely love it so it's just kind of hard I I I listen I I'm glad you called

and the reason I asked you what do you think is because at the end of the day

it's not about Georgia I's opinion on this and I think you were probably leaning that direction and and I'm going to tell you you have a path to not just

150,000 you have a path to being a

multi-millionaire because you you will

will eventually learn this trade to a point where you may end up owning your own business I'm assuming that's crossed

your mind yeah yeah now you're creating

jobs and and and so this is a no-brainer

and and I appreciate the call though because I think a lot of people think man I've been in it this long I don't want to be a College Dropout you're talking to a College Dropout I am a

College Dropout not a loser not a

grifter Drifter all the things right I

just knew that it was time to go work on

campaigns political campaigns and so I

didn't need to sit in an upper level government class when I had the opportunity to go being part of the fight and that was my path so you know

and then I ended up you know moving into

my early 30s into broadcasting which again didn't require a degree so it's

always is a degree required uh or is it

the best way so the only way or the best way and in this situation you've got really clear direction for your future

so I say drop out and don't let anybody talk you out of it okay do you got any student loan debt or any other debt uh I got maybe 15,000 okay you can

Crush that as you start working I would aggressively pay that off get an emergency fund you already got the job making 100K yeah okay man well now with your

focus fully on this job sky's the limit

knock out the debt get an emergency fund and start building some wealth my friend

yeah you know what uh he's not broke but I want to keep him from being broke so I

want to give him a copy of your book George I appreciate that to to avoid the

traps because you don't have to be broke

to get a lot out of your book and I want him to have a good path going forward as you start making money that's where the traps show up you start to inflate your lifestyle and this book's going to help you keep you on the straight and nrow trading so hang on the line we'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from broke appreciate the call absolutely Katherine

is up in San Antonio Texas Katherine how

can we help hi oh this is so exciting

okay I've always listened to Dave Ramsey

and like I followed his advice and

completely out of debt I just this month

that passed reached over 100k like N Net

worth like super liquid and way to go

Catherine hello thank you and I have

like no debt we have me and my husband have no debt like wow all Investments um

and thanks to D because I'm like a first generation immigrant so definitely

that's what's up amazing yeah and so I

guess my question is this now that you know we're at a point where we are managing like in the six figures I'm

trying to figure out if I should in

invest in like mutual funds or ETFs or

like kind of what balance to have I'm

trying to figure out like make my money

grow right now I have a Target retirement fund for my rth but it's got

like a 7% return annual and I think

those typically are lower than what

account are you talking about is this

your retirement is it an IRA or a 401k

Raw it's a that's a Roth so but is it a

401k or an IRA you can have different uh

Ira okay so this is not through your

employer you set up a Roth IRA you're maxing it out every year I

imagine uh the Roth no so that's kind of

what I'm trying to figure out so I'm maxing out the benefits in my like in my

traditional 401K okay do you have a Roth

401k option through your

employer I do and I actually just

changed that so to tradition

4% uh so 4% rth to rth and then like the

3% to traditional why the

split um I just heard that like at this

income level that I'm making it's like

good to like your to keep your tax rate

from going up but also taking advantage

of my current tax rate it's good to

split half and half so you're doing it

slightly for the tax deduction because on the Roth 401k you don't get the tax

deduction yeah exactly but you'll pay taxes on that money later right so to split it I guess okay

well I'll tell you what I do and what Dave Ramsey does you do what you will with this information Dave and I both do

Roth 401k only and if Dave had traditional money he'll roll it over every year to the Roth side so that it

grows taxfree and when he's in his

retirement if he ever retires at 90

years old that money he it'll be like

net income at that point if you have 2 million sitting in a Roth 41k that's 2 million you can spend without any go

without Uncle Sam getting his grubby hands on it which I love and you're not

worried about what am my tax is going to be in retirement and will tax rates go

up in 30 years when I retire I like not

having to worry about any of that and just knowing that I've already paid the taxes so your question should you do ETF

should you do mutual funds index funds in a retirement account depending on

your options mutual funds are a great uh

bang for the buck ETFs are not bad those

are exchang traded funds I'm sure you know but I'm explaining for the audience they're investment hybrid so it has the diversification of a mutual fund hundreds of stocks in there but it has the tradability of a single stock and so

there's intraday pricing so they can be

bought and sold throughout the day whereas a mutual fund closes at one

price at the end of the day so there's nothing wrong with them but it can create this sort of gamified thing where you want to buy and sell which I hope you never do you want to hold so for

those reasons I would probably stick to mutual funds and index funds ETFs might

have slower a slightly lower cost but

otherwise there's not really no big difference there yeah thanks thanks for

call thanks Catherine for the call and congrats I love that love her story they

are absolutely off and running great advice George good hour my friend all

right don't move folks we might be back

for some of you we might be back for join us on the Ramsey Network app there you go

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over

for you so jump onto the app and let the

fun continue all right go on now don't

make it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do e

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## 231. There's Always Hope When Facing Financial Hardship | February 13, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney. And it's a it's a special show because we're kicking off our money and marriage events and have many people here in studio that are going to be attending the event which is so fun. And so we are here though on this show to take your calls. So you can give us a call at8255225.

The lines are open. So we're here to talk about your life and your money. Up first, oh gosh, all the way in Alaska, we got Aaron. Hi Aaron.

>> Hi. How you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

Uh so my question is uh now that I am engaged to the most amazing woman in the world um when we do get married we've agreed that we want to combine our finances into one account and do that together. Um but I've I've one I've never combined finances with anybody before uh even in my first marriage. And two is I I actually kind of have some control issues that I know I have. Um so my question is is >> what advice would you guys give to people and how we can be successful in doing that together?

It's a great question. Very self-aware. Aaron, >> wait. Tell me tell me about your control issues.

control issues to say that sentence out loud, that tells me you're you're pretty special. What does control issues mean?

>> I've spent the last couple years in therapy kind of getting over my own personal things and stuff like that the last year or two. Um, I think for me it's I get really frustrated when, you know, part of it's kind of like not getting my way or I think this is the best way to do this. why aren't we doing this way? And then just kind of micromanaging things and stuff like that.

And I know it's been an issue in past relationships.

>> Bro, this is what changing a family tree

looks like in real life. I'm super proud of you, dude. >> Oh, thanks, man. >> Like, like for real.

To to be able to say, I've hurt people in the past. I've not been the guy that I want to be and I want to do something different and I'm going to go get the education and now I'm asking for wisdom on like okay rubber meets the road. How do I do this thing that that's how the whole country will change if people will start doing what you're doing right now. So hear me say I'm proud of you dude.

It's awesome. >> Well done. You mentioned >> the last couple years has been all about that. >> Good.

>> So good. You mentioned this is your second marriage. Is it her second marriage as well? >> It is.

>> It is. Okay. Because we do find with second marriages specifically that not that it's harder to take the step of combining finances, but there's already been so much pain and hurt and untangling of finances if they were combined in the previous marriage that going into the second sometimes it's like a bigger hill to climb to be like, okay, we're going to do this. But the fact that you guys are doing something even differently than your first with money is is so encouraging.

yeah. Yes. So, what I would do is like when we say combine accounts, that really means mostly your primary checking and any savings accounts, right? We're not combining any retirement. We obviously want to take advantage of each of you having your own retirement. And when you're looking at

combining it, there's a couple of things. So, it's the logistical side of just changing checking accounts, which some people we hear that excuse like, oh, I just want to go down to the bank and do it. It's just so much work. So there's that side, but then there's also the side of realizing, okay, she is going to spend money on things that you may not truly understand and vice versa.

And and what's beautiful about that though is that's where the conversations start to happen. Even in the conflict, that starts to happen. So if you can kind of get ahead of that, Erin, and do a budget together, sit down together and walk through where you want your income to go as you guys combine incomes and say this is one. Um, but you can start having those conversations and engagement.

I wouldn't pull any triggers till after you actually are legally married. But, >> right, >> this is a great point and even the wedding planning, you know, is a great kind of springboard into this. Like create a wedding budget. You guys sit down, you know, even have a checking account for the wedding budget and say, "Hey, here's what we're going to spend." And plan that out together.

It's kind of a little bit of a test run before you guys actually combine everything and pay bills together. >> And and I'll give you two practical tips.

>> Yes. Um, and I got this from from Rachel and from Dave. Tip number one is since

you're the controlling guy and you know that about yourself, I'm guessing um to use Rachel's language, you're the nerd, right? You you have a way that things need to be done, right? So you go first and you make the budget and you bring it to your budget meeting and then you

slide it across the table to your wife and you say nothing other than I want

you to look at this and change a few things

and then hold your breath and exhale and do all your breathing exercises as you learned in therapy and all that >> or change as much as she wants. >> Yeah. Ch change what she wants and and then y'all and then here's the beautiful part about it. Here's the second tip.

Anytime y'all get into a conflict on when you say, "I think we can do groceries for $100 this month." And she's like, "Actually, it's 700." And you're like, "Uhuh, I'll just eat right." That you get in those kind of nonsensical things. I want you to use this phrase. The story I'm choosing to make up is.

And for people who struggle with control issues, by framing it that way, you are opening yourself up. You're inviting someone in to challenge your story. And yours might be the story I'm choosing to make up is you don't think I'm smart or you think I'm dumb or you think that I

don't know how to do math or like whatever. And then she can say no that's not the story at all actually. And then now y'all are coming together on an issue. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. You're pairing into my soul right now man. >> Okay. Yeah.

Well I may or may not have control issues myself. So, like being able to just put that on. And by the way, this isn't just going to be your money. This is going to be about sex.

This is going to be about kids. This is going to be about where y'all live. If you can start hard conversations with the phrase, hey, this just happened. And the story I'm choosing to make up about it is, then you give somebody an opportunity to come to connect with you.

I I I say this and I don't mean it to be cheesy, but conflict in marriage can be a great thing. It's a connection point. It means something matters. And when you invite somebody into it, it's amazing.

screwed that up. It's your fault. >> Yeah. It's your fault. Then what you're doing is you're declaring war and they have to defend themselves, right?

>> And so just those two things. And I Rachel, I'm overdramatic. We know that.

>> I like the idea of both of y'all cancelling your current checking accounts and getting a new bank.

>> Unless y'all just have like a broad out relationship because there's something about y'all both had other marriages.

This is like us starting completely over in the same on the same page in the same place. And I kind of like that.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I and I can >> I'm I'm listening. I'm I'm right there with you. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and combining money, it is one of the more scary, vulnerable things, especially when you get married later if it's your second marriage, like I said, because you're so used to doing something the way you've been doing it and it's worked for you up until this point. And so changing the way maybe you

not necessarily see money but how you're handling it and then entering into someone else's story, right? That she has her own set of how she grew up, her tendencies, everything. And you guys combining that, it's one of the best things you can do, Erin, for your marriage. It really is.

It is. It is such a central point that so many couples miss out on when they choose not to do it because you end up running on just completely two separate paths and you never intersect. you never have a chance to have conflict because it's like, well, that's just his over there and he's going to just do it. Um, so you guys are you you honestly are you have such courage to step in and do something that's really scary that most couples wouldn't.

I think you'll be better for it. You really will. The intimacy that's created, the conversations that's created, the you you know, the unity on your goals and your dreams, so much comes out of that funnel of money cuz money is a tool that creates the ability to do everything. And when you're on the same page with it, uh, it's beautiful.

So, we're excited for you guys. And you know what? Hold on the line, Aaron.

Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you every dollar as a wedding gift for >> a premium for a year. A a Ron.

>> Yes. So, you guys can >> This one's going to This one's going to happen. >> It together. >> I'm excited for y'all.

I used to be that guy who bragged about running on no sleep. And then I realized being tired all the time is not a flex.

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That gives you up to 1,200 bucks off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on. That's casper.com/ramsey.

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Up next, we have Bernardet in Tampa, Florida on the line. Hi, welcome to the show. >> Hi there. How are you doing today?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Well, uh, we are blessed beyond all measure. We have a $800ish house and we have about 334,000

left on the mortgage and we're both looking, we're both united and wanting to pay it off. Yet um we are differing

in where we go for our refinance. I am

we have both been students of Dave Ramsey and I am very very tickled with

wanting to do a 15 but my husband citing

wanting to mitigate risk for the unforeseen future that he might lose his job. Uh wishes to stick with a 30 in the

event that we would have then a lower monthly payment.

>> Sure. just in case. What What makes him think he's going to lose his job?

>> Uh, right before Christmas, he lost one boss that was traumatizing and unseen enough. And then after Christmas, another boss was let go.

>> Oh, wow. >> And so I And he works with computers.

And 5 years ago, computer jobs and

especially administrative computer geeks, no problem finding a job. It's not as comfortable. Now according to him it could take up to a year to find a job and when he did it might not necessarily be for the same price tag. So he's so I

hear him and I respect him and I understand he has handled our finances

swimmingly for the last 15 years of our marriage when we combined our finances and he we have a budget. I'm sitting here looking at my budget. We have mapped out what a three month emergency fund would be and a six-month emergency fund would be >> and we have basically two years worth of emergency fund right now.

>> Oh wow. >> So okay >> we plan on putting a big chunk on our

refinance. Um and then in between all of

this he's also saying I want to go enjoy the Florida waterways. Let's go uh get

some jet skis. There it is.

>> Where are you from? Your accent is just like wonderful.

>> I I can tell you maybe off the air.

>> Oh, there we go. >> Oh my gosh. Sounds like a conspiracy and I like it. Okay. Um Okay. So, a couple

of things. Number one, you guys are in a great spot, FYI. Like, if if if you don't refinance to a 15-year, you guys are going to pay off your house early and and you guys are on track. Like, you are working your way there.

Do you know what I'm saying? like you're not restarting something and changing something big. It's just more how can we effectively do this as fast as possible is what you're looking at. So nothing is on fire for you guys, just FYI.

Like whatever we talk about on this call, you guys are good. You're moving in the right direction. So be encouraged in that. >> And I agree and it was beautiful.

We got to sit down and he showed me. He's like, "Here, honey. Here's our current mortgage and this is what it would look like if we paid it off and did nothing else.

And then here's the 15 and the 15-year accelerated and the 30-year and the 30-year accelerated. And he's like, there it is. It's not that big of a difference in the end, >> right? Yes. Yeah. Because I mean, after you guys refinance, you know, because your interest rate probably will go up a little, right? I mean, if you've had your house this long, if you've paid off half a million dollars of mortgage of your mortgage already, you probably got your loan right before 2020.

>> We've only we've only had it for three years. >> Okay. So, you did get after go down a little bit. >> So, what are you guys What do you guys make a year?

>> Um, he makes over 300,000.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And that's not counting the blessed stocks and some of the other little perks that go with the job.

>> Okay. That's just just base salary. Is that for him? And you guys have a 2-year emergency fund, you said. So, how much if you brought it down to six months, how much will how much could you throw at the house? If you have 300 left, how much is sitting in there?

>> Um, so 6 months as we calculate right now is about 40, we'll say 43,000. And the my

take is let's leave about 7 to eight months of an emergency fund just for an extra buffer. Okay. So, how much extra would you have to throw at the house after all that?

>> You'd think I'd be intelligent enough to write that down. >> Oh, sorry. No, you're How much do you How much do you have saved right now? What's two years for you guys?

>> So, it's about 176,000.

>> One I love how specific you are. Like 176. So, if you kept 75,000 in an

emergency fund, which is double your 40,

and you put a hundred down on this house >> as part of the refinance, >> you're down to 200.

>> Uhhuh. >> And you can flip what he told you right back at him, which and and again, this isn't a game or a competition, but you called us and so we're going to side with you. Um, since it's not that big of a difference, then it's not that big of a difference.

Correct. And what he I've tried to be

when we had our conversation, I asked, "Did you pray about it?" And have you asked or sought counsel? And I've been talking to my dad's. I've been talking to friends. >> I've written to you guys. And for him,

he's come from a different place.

>> Mhm. >> In his life. His his parents had had to he said he grew up wondering whether he would lose their house.

Yeah. >> So, I appreciate. So, for him, he's like, "I'm not quitting. I'm not getting rid of my job. I don't think I'm going to get fired anytime soon." >> No, but he he has in his nervous system, he has a lived experience of scarcity.

This could all go away.

>> So, in his mind, to have the potential

of a lower payment mitigates risk for

him, and that makes him more comfortable. So, >> is he is he I get that. Is he planning on paying the house off early? You guys have a plan to pay it off early.

>> We are the accelerated

concepts that he had. He's anticipating

about 8 and 1/2 years. So when he showed the numbers >> um the 15 year would be about 8.7 and

the 30 year would be about 8.4 and that's not counting any extra windfalls we might put towards it.

>> Okay. Okay. So Bernett, any anytime I'm faced with an eitheror, we have to do this plan or that plan. An exercise I go through and that me and my wife go through whenever it's both when we're at odds on something is we force ourselves to put four or five other variables on the table. >> Correct. >> You make 300 grand a year. You're about to potentially owe only 200 grand on

your home.

>> Uhhuh. >> What if y'all just sucked it up for 18 months and just paid this thing off?

>> Yes, that's my plan. And then all of the risk is off the table completely.

>> You don't need to refinance and get a little lower. All of it. Everything's been done in 18 months. >> And then he can buy the boat he wants in 18 months. He can if he loses his job, y'all can be free. But you're talking about y'all are sitting on so much money. And if I with with earned income

and with with your uh equity, your home, I'm telling you right now, if this is in my house, well, I'll tell you right now, this is exactly what my wife and I have done a couple of times, which is, hey, we're close enough now. Let's just bite the bullet for 18 months and get this thing out of our lives forever and then we take all risk off the table.

>> So, how does that look like for your family? Does that mean no vacations cuz he has a high stress job and we have young ones and he's >> so counting the years.

>> But no, but y'all live in Tampa. You could go down to a public beach and have a great time. That would be a year of

not going to like some >> Yeah. You probably wouldn't blow it out of the water, right? We and we say Bernett and you probably heard this on the show cuz you listen. We always say to be intense in baby steps one through three and then four through six is just being intentional, right?

But for you guys since this is kind of a stress point, something that you're talking about, it's almost a little bit more of that acceleration just to be done with it because of it, you know? So, yeah, we do tell people not to be have a mortgage around for eight more years. Um, especially with these numbers that you guys can do this >> and the potential risk that you'll have in front of you. Think about what he's doing.

I wish he was on the phone. He's holding an electric fence and getting electrocuted from it.

>> What's the electrocution? >> The electrocution is I want to hang on to this mortgage for eight and a half years and I have to keep working this job that's super stressful. I can get laid off from from any moment and I'm scared to death of risk >> and so let's hang on to this thing.

>> And what we're not saying is I do have my license as a nurse. I could go back to work. >> You could and you could get done with this thing in a year, but you don't have to. Well, I can't do that. I do have three young ones. I'm home domestic engineer, as it were. >> There you go. But I mean, I I like the idea of y'all letting go of the electric fence at all. If he's really concerned about risk, and his story rings true with me. I understand that feeling.

>> Then let's clear this thing off the deck. And so what? We give up elaborate

vacations for 18 months. Let's go to the beach every other weekend. We can do that on Saturdays and Sundays, but let's get this thing out of our lives for good. And then we take the 15, 30 year that proxy war off the table.

>> Yeah. And it's not a lofty goal. These numbers totally do.

>> 300 grand. >> You could do it. You can do it.

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Well, big news, John, for the Live Like No One Else cruise. The VIP upgrades are

gone. So, they are completely sold out for the Live Like No One Else cruise.

So, you've missed the opportunity for the top tier ticket. But if you are debtree, there's still a chance to celebrate and get the upgrade to the preferred for some extra access, better seating, and uh yeah, just some little surprises here and there. So, if you have not checked out this cruise, we are going again March of 2027 and we're doing the Western Caribbean.

And this cruise was so much fun when we did it last year. And so, um, yeah, I mean, the the time on board with all the passengers, an entire boat full of people that have been working the plan and getting out of debt. It is just some of the best people, honestly. >> Awesome.

>> So kind. And we do all the nightly events. There's entertainment, there's also us, there's teaching, we're around at the dinners and everything. It is so much fun.

So, if you want to go cruise with us in the Western Caribbean, you can lock in your cabin for just a deposit of $600 today. You can go to ramseolutions.com/events and book your cabin. All right, let's go to Justin in Chicago.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much for for taking my call. I've been a long time long time

listener and I just purchased um the Ramsay book, but it hasn't arrived to me yet. and I've just gotten ourselves my my wife and I into some trouble here and just looking for for advice and solutions on how to get it taken care of. >> Yes. >> Glad you're here, brother. >> What's going on?

>> Um well, I um there is some consumer

there is consumer debt. There is um

18,000 in personal loan. Um

we have 9,800 uh in a vehicle loan. Um the other vehicle is is paid in full. We have um

another loan, a heliloc loan of 44,000.

>> Okay. >> And our mortgage, our um we did

everything right with our mortgage. We put, you know, an acceptable amount down. I think we put like 25% down and we still owe we still owe 272 on our on

our home. >> Okay.

>> What's your income, brother? How much do you make household?

>> Um I make I make 95 and my wife makes

140. >> Oh, sweet. >> Good. Okay. So, >> I know I I I know that we can I I I know

I'm sorry to interrupt. I I know that we can, you know, take care of this in a

relatively short amount of of time, but

I just I've been listening to you guys for so long and would just value your your opinion on things.

>> Let me say this first. Rachel, walk you through a plan.

I can hear it in your voice, man. Like,

>> I'm I'm It's been a long time.

>> Yeah.

Like, hear me say this, and I'm not saying this lightly. I'm glad that you are here.

>> Yeah. >> I'm proud of you for for recognizing the challenge you and your family are are challenges y'all are in and a y'all dug

yourself a pretty nice hole and you have a humongous shovel to dig out of it. But you can't go anywhere if you're going to carry around all the past mistakes you made. >> Yep. >> So, we got to set them down and say, "Cool, here we are.

Don't ever want to be here again." And we're going to head forward and get out of this mess. I I'm ready. I'm ready.

>> Justin, can I ask you said you've been listening for a while. What caused um what caused some of this stuff? What was the car situation? What's the $18,000 personal loan? Has life just happened and it's just been exhausting and you guys feel like you had no way out. Well, life life did happen, but to be perfectly honest, I I put us in this situation and I have I have taken uh the

necessary steps for quite some time now to um to correct that.

>> Are you in recovery? >> So, um well, it's it's not uh it's not um

drugs or alcohol related or anything like that. It was gambling. I was going to say, yeah, which is the the curse on

our generation right now. >> For sure. >> Yeah. And I and I never used to I never

used to be one. In fact, uh the reason

why we were in such a good position earlier on in our uh in our marriage was

I mean obviously we you know we both contribute and things like that but I was just a I was a stickler on on things

and I I think I I think we just got to a

point where we were where we were doing so well >> and kind of let your foot off the gas. I I uh and I made and I made a lot of

mistakes and and it's you know it's been

about it's been about three 3 months now where I haven't I haven't been doing you

know anything and just really really focusing on just refocusing I should say

on >> just taking care just taking care of this and then I I I guess then my next

goal is our next goal I should say is,

"I'm just going to go full throttle at our mortgage." >> That's awesome. >> It's great. Was the um you know, it's it's always interesting because we we get these calls a lot when addiction some level of something is paired with this debt. That's a pretty common equation. And I think what the extra

hill to climb when you're paying this off is like I think there is like a deeper motivation there, especially when you're changing your life and changing your behaviors. But there also can easily be such shame attached to it, right? It's not like, "Oh gosh, we just decided to go on all these crazy vacations and got an $18,000 of credit card," right%. >> Yes.

So you >> But what you were saying, John, is letting that part go because Justin, getting rid of this stuff, we can make a plan. Like that is easy, >> but it really it's going to be a more fulfilling journey when you do that deeper, which you may have already done, but >> but and listen to me. Like I need you to internalize this, okay?

>> Mhm. Yes. If you start this debt paying

off journey and you saddle up next to

your wife and you all agree, y'all y'all make a blood oath and you all pay this debt off. If you wake up every day and keep your budget and check your Every Dollar app, we're going to hook you up with that for free. If you do all that stuff because you think you're a piece of crap and this is what you deserve, I promise

you 100% you're going to crash and burn.

>> Mhm. If you wake up every day and say,

"I'm doing this because I'm worth not

being chained to banks and to mortgages.

I'm doing this because I want to be a guy that my wife can anchor into, my kids can anchor into, because they deserve that." Like, they're worth that.

You'll do this forever.

And that's why shame will bury you if you're not careful.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Cuz that's really what I've been >> I know it is. I can hear it on you. You cannot go through get out. You go through the baby steps because you think you suck and you're an idiot and you're a loser and this is your punishment.

This is the path to freedom. It's not it's not a it's not flogging you for

what you did in the past.

>> Okay. >> Can I ask you guys a a quick question about it? It's It's not I mean I I I

just It's kind of one of those things where I just I How How did I get us

here?

>> I I know that.

>> Hold on. It's not a helpful question right now. That's a question between you and your therapist.

>> We're going to start doing the next right thing before we know why.

>> Okay. Because that that's a trap. It's a cultural trap.

>> Okay. Like, are you trying to figure out and get to the root of why I'm gonna stop yelling at my wife before I stop yelling? That's that's that's the wrong order.

>> But you do need >> you've got to do the work. Yeah. You got to talk to somebody. You need to be in a recovery group. You need to do that stuff, of course. But we're going to start >> we're going to stop gambling today.

We're going to stop borrowing money today.

>> Mhm. >> Before we get to the root of, you know, what happened when all that stuff is well and good. I wrote a book about it. It's important, but it's not the right order. Right now, we're gonna stop the harming behavior.

And Rachel's gonna walk you through a plan right here. It's pretty simple, especially for guys that make as much money as y'all do.

>> Yeah. So, >> we can I just say one real quick thing?

I I guess I got a little off track. And we do have we we do have a I I guess I

would consider a large a large sum of of

money, but I guess I would consider that my wife's because her mom did pass away about four years ago. And it's in a Roth

IRA and there's >> Yeah, I wouldn't touch that, Justin. Yes. So, keep that all anything retirement, 401k, Roths, do not touch.

>> Not because it's hers, but because it's in a retirement account. >> That's right. Because of the tax. Yes. Yes. Keep that there. And then if you guys have any stocks, any savings anywhere else, throw it at this debt.

But honestly, you guys can have this paid off. I mean, with your income in in 18 months, you could do this very, very quickly, Justin. So you guys pay off the smallest debt first to the largest and include the heliloc and then later you can start investing and then we can look at paying off the house.

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>> Oh man, I just pre-eread this question and I felt a rant coming on. So, you have to go first, Rachel. >> Oh, I can't wait. Read it.

>> Today's question comes from Marco in Arkansas. Marco, this is for you, brother. Why do you encourage people to have children in baby step two while they're paying off debt? I understand that babies can be unexpected, but why do you encourage listeners to have a child when it will add a large line item to the budget that could go towards paying off debt?

could go towards debt. Wouldn't that be a better plan?

Okay, here's what I would say. If it

would be if the only thing you cared about at life was money. Money is like a thing to help your life. So create a life that you love and let money support that. So >> yes, get married during baby step two.

Have babies during baby step two. Like like money is not your life. This is not your life. Now sometimes it has to be for a season to get yourself in a better financial position and you may be kind of obsessed for a year or two to get out of debt. Like absolutely, but that doesn't pause the bigger things in life which are your health, your spiritual life, your family. Like those things

trump money. You have to understand that. Now again, I will say with the caveat always there are sacrifices you make but we're not sacrificing those things. Those are that creates a full life. So no, have babies. Have babies and baby step two. Have two babies and baby step two. Make it a two twofer.

>> Have five. Have five babies. Marco, >> I wonder if Marco has babies. I will say out of all the Ramsay personalities, not to throw him under the bus, he's not here.

Maybe he can come in and do a segment, George is someone that's like, "Hey, if you are stressed to the max and you keep on have bait, you're going to continue to be stressed." Like he he has >> I know, but George also opens his garage with a cell phone. He's he's like a special >> case of anxious saying on an extreme case extreme extreme extreme.

don't know, think twice about I think that's what George may say. But overall, my philosophy is the big things in life are always going to trump money. And so have a life that you want.

>> Well, go John. Now, here's your go.

>> That's just I I >> What? You have to rant. I barely ranted.

>> No, I'm good. I Because I'll be ugly. I >> No, you won't. Go. You're never >> Let me say this. as somebody who

we struggled to have kids for years.

We've lost a lot of pregnancies >> and I've got two kids that if you had

told like again like look at on paper

you have a child it messes up your money it changes your relationship changes your sex life. It it changes everything.

>> Yeah. Not just >> so the algorithm on paper doesn't work.

And if I could snap my fingers and have

one thing different in my life, I would have more kids running around my house >> because of the depth of and the purpose

and the like you don't know who you are,

I believe, until you feel the weight on the squat rack. And that can be some people can't have kids. I've been there.

And so that can be in your purpose. That can be in the things that you're doing. That can be in the responsibilities that you put yourself underneath that you get to carry. That's where you find purpose.

And so I can't think of anything greater

any any greater calling if you're able to than to go have kids. Yeah. And so to pause it because I'm a part of this plan or man, you'll pay off debt as you go

because I mean following your same line of logic, Marco.

>> Um and again, by the way, I want to be sensitive to those who can't. I've been there. I know to those who have lost.

I've been there. I get it. Um and I

can't also not say that it's not super stressful. Doesn't cause fights in your marriage. It doesn't cause it's it's hard. >> Yeah. >> And anything in the world worth doing is

hard, right? >> But following your same thing, Marco, like let's not have a car then cuz that's an extra expense. Let's just walk and let's not have a home. Let's let's live in a tent. We can do that cheaper.

Like you can follow this line of thinking all the way out. >> Yes. That's so true. >> So we want you to follow a plan that you can actually do. >> We want you to make sacrifices where you need to. And the sacrifices we're talking about are going out to eat for God's sakes and vacations for crying out loud and working extra job. All that stuff's important, especially for a season. But man, the big stuff

like build a marriage with somebody while you are getting out of debt. That's amazing. >> Navigate having a kid and having to also make sacrifices. Yes.

Learn how to say no and learn how to say not yet. All those things make you give you the life that you really want down the road. So, >> and I would say too along those same lines, I think it's so common for people to say, "We'll have kids >> win." And it could be a financial goal, a career goal, a whole thing. And it's like there will always be something to be chasing, right?

>> Yeah. >> That's where I've changed in life. I'm a little bit like, >> have kids, have them soon. Have them soon if you Yeah.

>> Uh, well, Marco, you're fun. Thanks for Thanks for the question. >> Hey, you know what? I'm guessing I'm guessing his wife. >> Here's what I I think Marco's wife wants to have kids. >> I know. >> And he's trying to come up with reasons to not. >> I want to hug her.

>> Lord, >> have six. Marco, >> have six. Okay, let's go to Mariah in San Diego. Hi, Mariah. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. I am so nervous to talk to you guys. >> Oh, don't be. >> I'm nervous. I'm sitting by Rachel for How do you think I feel?

>> We're glad you called. >> My husband says I'm a glutton for pain by calling cuz he knows you're going to yell at me. No, you called when Dave's not here. We will not yell. I promise.

>> I know. Thankfully, I'm I am relieved.

>> So, we have been half listeners for the

last eight years of our marriage. And we

>> pretty much impulsively bought a house because we wanted to have a house before our first baby. And so, we've been in this house for four years now.

>> Okay. >> And it is 50% of our income.

>> Okay. >> And it is exhausting. It's like sucking the life out of us. However, my husband

runs his business out of our threecar garage. >> So, we don't we don't really know what to do because we have renters and that's

how we stay alive. And so, calling us,

>> correct? Um, two are family and then one somebody that we found um and we did background checks and everything. And he's phenomenal. So, we love our renters and we love the environment in our home.

It's just if one of them were to back out or all three of them, you know, it we would not survive.

>> Yes. Is it 50% with just what you guys are paying plus what the renters are paying or that includes the renters?

>> 50% includes the renters. We get 2400 a

month from renters.

>> Okay. >> Um and we make 6,400 on our portion. So,

we get about almost 10,000 a month. Um,

on average, it's about 9,500 a month.

>> Okay. >> And all of our house mortgage and bills

come out to about 53 a month. >> Well, how much is just the mortgage? Not the bills, but just the mortgage.

>> 43. >> 43. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you're definitely in a high-risisk situation and you're having to >> Yeah. depend on these people exactly how you're feeling. Yeah. I think I unless he's going to be getting a significant raise anytime soon.

Is the business he's running his own business. Is there an upward trajectory? Like are you guys looking out and say okay yeah in two years it's going to double like have you have you done projections like how it's been a pattern so far or >> Yeah.

Um so he's not even a year in and he did

125,000 before taxes >> last year. Um, and we took home about 86

of it. And so he's been doing really

well and he took off and because of his experience with his previous job, he's got really frequent clients. Um, and

he's getting a lot of really great work.

So, he sees a lot of growth and I see a lot of growth in the company. >> How fast will that grow?

>> Potentially in the next year, we're even thinking that he could double it. So, we see a lot of growth, but that's the biggest thing is we need the threec car garage because renting a space out here for that price is at least 4 to6,000.

>> Yeah. >> For the space that he needs with the tools and everything that he would need to move. >> Right. Right. >> But my my fear is you've already left the house.

>> What do you mean by that? Like my fear is you're already out >> and y'all can come up with a bunch of reasons to stay, but I feel you're already out. >> Yeah, the stress is weighing on you, Mariah. So, what I would do is I would have benchmarks for you guys cuz if you doubled it, then it goes from 50% to about 35% if my numbers are right.

And then if you double the business again, right? If it really is that successful, you guys will be fine in 24 months. But the question is, you have to have benchmarks. And if you can sustain that for 24 months and hold your breath and say, "Let's see if this works." I you could, but if those if it does not double in a year, you guys have to have a hard and fast rule to say we we're selling.

We're getting out of this. If it does not happen, >> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and the phone lines are

open. You can give us a call at8825-55225.

And we're going to go to Little Rock, Arkansas and talk to Skyler. Hi Skyler.

Hey, how are you doing today? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Well, I make annual income of 31,700

a year and I'm kind of in the bind with a car payment and ATV payment situation, too. Um, the car is worth like 28. It's

$28,000 when I got done financing it.

And the payment's like 529 a month.

>> Holy smokes.

>> Yeah. And then you went and bought an ATV. >> Yeah. For $10,000 and that's 252 a

month. So >> I don't want to kick you while you're down, but that's a very Arkansas thing to do, right? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's a Texas thing to do, too. So there we go. >> Yeah. >> Some pot talking to the kettle here.

Wow. >> Yeah. It's terrible. So I'm thinking I'm just going to have to get rid of this car. >> Correct. >> And I got a cash car sitting over here.

It's a Honda Civic 2009. So >> I'm fixing it. I'm fixing it up. So,

>> good for you. How How much money will we have to put into that?

>> Not very much. I got a new water pump installed and all it needs now is a oil.

>> Well, that's great. >> BBT oil um gasket and it'd be good to go. >> So, why are you calling us? You already know what to do. >> Well, so you got 28,000. Is that what you owe on the car? How much could you sell it for?

>> Come on. >> Oh, no.

>> Say it again. >> The negative equity is $10,000.

So, I'd be negative 10,000 upside on the

car. >> Okay. So, you can sell it for 18 is what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you just have to take a small loan out if you can for 10 grand. And how about the >> Is there any way Is there any way I can go through fair winds or is there any

possible way I could do it that way?

>> You'll have to call them and they'll sit down and check out your your history.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a credit union or a local credit union would be a great option. They're usually more willing to work with people and looking at their specific situation. >> How about the ATV? What could you sell it for? >> Oh, I'm not really sure. I haven't looked in the value on the ATV yet.

>> Okay. >> It might be maybe the value is like$7,000 possibly since it's new.

>> Yep. Well, I would encourage you on that one to probably just try to save up the three grand if you can for the difference. >> Yeah. um and and be done with it. And

thank God you have this other car. I mean, honestly, that's a that's a lifesaver in this situation. >> I used to be debtree.

>> Yeah. >> I used to be debtree a long time ago. I was managing money really good and I just had a I messed up.

>> Yeah, it happens. >> We've all been there, dude. >> It happens. How old are you, Skyler?

>> I am 27. >> Okay, good for you. What do you do for a living? >> I work at Index Screens. I'm a delivery driver working three days a week. I deliver teeth. >> Okay. to the North Arkansas region.

>> What do you deliver >> teeth? >> I deliver dentures. I'm a delivery driver for Green. >> This is becoming my favorite call of all time ever. >> I deliver teeth. Amazing. To North Arkansas. Amazing. Amazing.

>> What do you do? What are you doing the other two days a week? >> The other the other four days a week?

>> Well, I spark I spark all the time and I just work.

>> You spark all the time. Is that like a weed reference?

No, it is a it's a grocery delivery

platform through Walmart, you know.

Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

>> Um, how much is your How much is your teeth delivery job? How much does that pay? >> Uh, 15 20 an hour.

>> Okay. Do you get more doing that or the Spark? Grocery delivery?

>> Grocery delivery I could pick up like maybe on like four weeks like $800. So,

that's a little extra money in my pocket. It's just uh if I can get these car payments situated, I'll be so much better off. >> Yeah, but you're you're still very very economically vulnerable, brother.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

50 or something, right? >> Yeah. You can't you can't afford you can't afford a flat tire.

>> No. >> Okay. So, >> I can barely afford tires on this car and I had to put it on a credit card, which >> No, you didn't. You chose to. But here's the deal. >> I chose to. >> Here's the deal. Um,

why don't you pursue more stable work?

>> Well, I could possibly find a different

position. It's just >> you could, thousand million billion% find a different position.

>> It's just I I love three days a week, though. But sometimes we have to sacrifice to achieve what we want to

achieve. >> I think we do, Skyler. I think we do. I think 40 hours a week >> working Dude. >> Yeah, we got we got we got we got to up the we got to up the ante.

>> You have to get in the game of life.

>> Skyler, not that money brings happiness.

We're not saying that. But there is something about having stability.

>> Meaningful work does bring happiness.

>> Okay, fair. Thank you, Ken Coleman. Yes, thank you. >> It does.

If you ever call again more stable, if I could be more stable and have no payments, I mean, that's just the way to go. >> Well, exactly. But I want I'm going to send you >> and an emergency fund and a retirement account. Like there's some Yeah, there's um >> Are you dating?

>> I do have the Every Dollar app, huh? Oh, good. >> Yeah, but you don't have any money to to budget with. >> Yes, he does.

He's got like three grand a month >> and and and 80% of it goes to >> car payments, right?

>> Food, not dying, ATV. Okay. AK brother.

Um >> I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

has a career assessment in there.

>> I want you to get serious. I want you to do this exercise tonight. I'm being totally serious and I appreciate you having fun with us on this call.

>> Listen, sir. >> I want you to write a letter to 37year-old you tonight.

>> Okay? >> And I want you to write him a letter about the life he's going to have because you chose to get off your butt and stop coasting literally through life.

>> Yeah. And the work you put in today in your

entering into your late 20s and into your early 30s will be the platform from

from strength, from integrity, from work ethic, from skills um and and >> contribution to the world, >> purpose. People that you meet and shake hands with and they learn to trust you.

Those things will be the anchor points of your life at 37. Mhm.

>> And so I want you to write yourself a letter and say, "Here's who I chose that we were going to become." You're welcome.

>> And how I discovered the Ramsey Show is I know this guy that lives in Heaver. Um

he told me about the Ramsay Show and I got involved and I started listening to the podcast. I was like, "Wow, this is the same situation I'm in." >> Well, game on then. >> A mirrored mirrored situation.

>> Yes. I listen to the O podcast every day going down the road delivering dentures and working. >> Not every day, only three days a week.

>> Yeah, three days. Well, if I can find old ones, I'll review the old ones.

>> Oh, Skyler, you know what? You're great. I I would I'm with I'm with John. Yeah.

Um finding some purpose, you know what I mean? Like finding >> By delivery dur is is such a great gift.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that, but it's the it's the coasting, sleepwalking vibe that we're getting >> that it's like, hey, just let's add a little bit more >> a whole bunch more >> a whole bunch more of excitement and spark. Ask yourself that scary, terrifying question.

You only get one one roll of the dice in this life, >> one life. >> Are you going to are you just going to cash it out, barely getting by, >> driving 3 days a week, or are you going to say, "Hey, I was put on this planet to contribute, and here's what that's going to look like." And part of contribution means I'm going to have peace. I'm going to be anchored. I'm going to have some security so that I can offer that for other people.

And man, that means not working just kind of coasting 3 days a week. That means getting after it. >> Yeah. Hold on the line, Skyler.

Christian will pick up. We'll get you Ken's book. Um, but you you have some great foundational things that you're doing already, you know, with habits, with money.

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Up next we have Susan in Indianapolis.

Hi Susan. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks so much for having me. What an honor it is to speak with the both of you. >> Oh well, thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> Okay. My question in the most condensed form is how should I handle finances as

I go through a divorce?

>> Ah. >> Oh man. What what's going on?

um told myself I wouldn't cry.

>> Oh, it's okay. >> No, you're good. I'm glad you're here.

>> My husband of 21 years decided to walk

away. Um and I was completely blindsided

by it. >> Um which has left me living in fear and

uncertain of my future.

>> So, I'm trying to solve for peace and

>> um security. Yeah.

>> Um and Dr. John, earlier in this um

today's calls, you had talked about having options and I have some options

and I was just wondering if you can help me with the best step forward.

>> Yeah, go for it. Put some on the table for us. >> Um well, so we currently live in um my

husband's family farm. We purchased the

home a few years ago and remodeled and I

thought this would be my forever home.

Um, I do not want to leave. However, he

does not want the home, but he does not want me living there because I will no

longer be a part of that family.

>> So, here before we get going, I want to give you a couple of of frameworks.

Okay. >> Sure.

>> Whenever somebody files for divorce, whenever somebody says, "I'm leaving,"

what happens next? You go from

married to we go to a business transaction, >> right? >> And so I want you to have this I want you to tattoo this on your like not for

real, but like I want you to tattoo this on your spirit. Okay?

>> Okay. >> He no longer gets a vote.

>> Y'all are making a business transaction.

When he chose to leave you, he took his

name all out of the box that sits in the

middle of your table of people who get to speak into your life.

And for a time being, he's going to be replaced with a lawyer.

>> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> And this is how you begin that because what you're feeling, what you're what you're talking about, I've heard this I mean thousands of times. What you're what you're that that sense of loss and bewilderment. There's literally a death and it was your marriage and you have to grieve it as such. But that takes time.

But that other thing you're feeling is a

sense that you don't even trust yourself. >> Right. >> Right. How how did I miss this? I should have seen this coming. What should I have done differently? All those questions and there's never a there's never going to be great answers to those questions.

But it's natural that you ask them. But the way you begin to gain regain trust in yourself that the ground becomes firm underneath you is you begin drawing very

clear concrete boundaries about not what he wants but what you are going to do next.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And that's why we hire a good attorney. They're worth their weight in gold because it's literally hiring somebody to fight for you when you can't fight for yourself.

Okay. >> Okay. And so if you want to keep this house, then you have to go to the next layer, which gets a lot of folks in your situation in trouble, which is, I'm emotionally attached to this house. This was my forever home. I don't want to leave, but I can't I have a math problem. I can't afford to live here.

And that's what you have to be brutally honest with yourself about.

>> And then he gets to buy out, write you a humongous check for his part of the for your part of the equity.

Currently, he is paying for the mortgage

and all living living expenses while I stay there. And um his proposal is that

I can stay for um up to maybe three

years.

>> Let me say this. He doesn't get a proposal. I mean, he can tell his attorney what he proposes. And we are, yes, we're in negotiations right now.

But so I'm just trying to figure out what is best for me in this negotiation.

>> In no world am I going to let the guy who just walked out on a 20-year marriage be my landlord?

>> Yeah. >> No way. >> How much is the house worth, Susan?

>> Um, probably about 350,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys owe on the low end? >> Um, 240.

>> Okay. and question with the family with this being family land.

Number one, I'm just curious. Do you do you enjoy his f like that you want to create a life still in that?

>> I would I would go I would go to to like a a estate sale and get a whole bunch of toilets and just line the property line with old toilets. That's what I would do. >> We bought three acres in the middle of 80. And um so they own all of the land

around where we are.

>> Okay. Cuz when sometimes when there's a family >> land deal, there's something written within like I mean is there anything that like legally you could take this on? Correct. Like you guys >> No, there's there's nothing in writing that um we said we would never sell it outside of the family.

There's nothing in writing. That's what worries me a little bit, Susan, is that my only fear, even if the numbers work, and I could be wrong, that you stay on this property with his family surrounding you. You want to start a new life, and then you're like, "Hey, I'm I'm just making this up. Me and this this other guy in 5 years want to move close over here, and now you're stuck, and you can't sell that house because >> I wouldn't want to do that.

17 but >> when he's older I don't want to put him in that either. >> Okay. Let let me say I'm going to say one more thing and it's costic what I'm going to say. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And this is like a hard truth. And if you and I were hanging out I would wait for about an hour to say this thing but we only have a few minutes. Okay.

>> Hit me. >> The life you had is over.

>> Gone. Mhm. the dreams, the wants, the

things that I want to be in the future are now over. They're different now.

>> I hear you say that all the time. So, thank you for >> I know, but it hits hard. I know. And I don't say it lightly. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be braggadocious.

>> No, it's okay. >> But trying to think of the way things should have been where y'all have this amazing place and this amazing property and you deed it over to your son who's then 28 and he's got a young family, all of that. It's your husband ended it. He set it on fire.

And so that dream, that picture you had of coming back to your old house that he now lives, your son now lives in with his young family for Thanksgiving, you have to put that picture that you've painted in the grieve pile.

>> You get what I'm saying? >> I do. >> And I hate that for >> And we want to do what's best for Susan.

Susan in the next 3 years and Susan in the next 10 years and 15 years, you know. So, it is a it's a um looking so

far ahead, which is probably so hard to do right now in the middle of the pain.

Um but I just don't want you to make a bad financial decision that traps you in something that Susan 10 years from now can't freely live out.

>> Got it. So then I do have some other options. Um but I don't know if these are good options either. Okay, let's do Yeah, tell us what those are.

>> In, you know, it in the divorce, I I get

half of the 401k

>> and my financial adviser has told me

that I could take that without penalty and put that towards the down payment on a house. >> Do you have anything else in retirement?

>> I do. Um, I will get about 31,000 in a

Roth IRA and then I have about 10,000 in

mutual funds. How much is going to come over in the 401k?

>> All of it. >> I mean, how much >> What dollar amount is that?

>> I'm sorry. >> What dollar amount is half of the 401k?

What would that be? >> No. Oh, uh 106,000.

>> 106. And then um and then equity you'll get probably 50,000ish.

>> 50 grand.

>> Yeah. >> Um and how much do you make a year? How much are you working?

>> I am 45.

>> You make 45,000. Okay. Yeah, I would not pull out of that 401k. >> I would, you know, Susan, honestly, I would probably just go rent something for a year >> and settle some of this and then you can really take your time looking because if you have the ability to put down a great down payment and find, you know, a little home and your payment is no more than 25% of your take home. It's all in the parameters of buying a home wisely.

I would be great if you did that, but you don't have to do that next week. >> No, don't do that. Don't do that for six to nine months. I would put I would put a lot of this stuff and I would just hold it and wait a year and grieve and

then let's look at options. But I probably would get out of this house if I was you.

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Well, over on the debtree stage, we have Kyle and Sarah from Akran, Ohio. Hey you

guys. >> Hello. >> Hi. Welcome to the show.

>> Thanks for having us. >> Well, what an exciting day. Hey, so how much debt have you guys paid off? >> Paid off 150k. Whoa.

>> Oh my gosh. What did that consist of?

>> That was our house. >> Oh, dude.

>> Paid off the house, baby. Steph, >> you look like you are 17. How old are you? >> I'm 33. >> 37. >> Oh my. >> You have a paid off house at 33? Yeah, we do. >> Well done. How long did that take you?

>> 47 months. Just shy of four years.

>> 47 months. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, and how much how much were you guys making during that time? uh started right around a 120 uh upped it to about 145.

>> Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, what happened? What was it four years ago that you thought we're going to pay off our house? We're going to be we're going to be in our early 30s, mid30s and have a paid off house. How did that happen?

>> Yeah. So, we ended up buying our house in September 2021. And almost

immediately, I kind of looked at Sarah and we were like, "Hey, what what would happen if we were able to go ahead and knock this out in less than 5 years?" And uh yeah, we just started tackling it, just attacking it uh every single month. And we really looked at it and we said, "Hey, how do we have more options in our life, have more peace?" Really just wanted to go ahead and just provide more uh more wiggle room, I would say.

>> Oh my gosh. How much is the house worth?

>> House is worth around 330.

>> Okay. Amazing, you guys. That's that's incredible. How does it feel?

>> It feels absolutely amazing.

>> I mean, just wild. H Okay. So, what was the journey like? How what did you guys do? What were things that you said no to? What were things that maybe you added on? I mean, you were pretty intense. Like, you guys really really were focused on this. >> Yeah, we were attacking it pretty heavily. But I would say that one of the first things that we did was just come

in more prepared. Uh so when we actually came into the like house buying process, we were like, "Okay, how much can we put down?" And we ended up putting down 115K.

And again, your principles here at Ramsay helped us do that. just to be able to get that within that 25% Yeah.

>> uh uh mortgage payment that we were looking to try to to have. And so so if but if you if you walked in that's I I want I want to double click on that amount of that discipline that y'all had as a couple. If you walked in with 115 grand, you qualified for a house twice as much as 350 grand.

>> Yeah. >> On your income. they would have given you the world and y'all said, "No, we think we can find joy and have a great life in this house >> that we can own outright in five years."

>> Yeah. And it was during the times when the interest rates were super low, too.

So, that was kind of advice that we were going back and forth. >> Oh, yeah. Also, it was really stupid that y'all paid that off, right?

>> So dumb. Dummies, dummies, right? Nobody pays it off with a low interest rate.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, for you guys as a married couple, what does that look like? You know, we're talking about the money and marriage event this weekend.

How did you work together as a team?

Who's like more of the free spirit?

Who's more I'm assuming you're probably more of the nerd, Kyle. Is that true? >> I I am definitely more of the nerd. I felt it. I felt it. I felt that energy.

>> I have my my every dollar budget. We have our spreadsheet that we were looking at um on a regular basis. And that gave me a lot of, I would say, momentum and gave us momentum just to be able to see, you know, if you change that number on that spreadsheet, how quickly could we get out get out of debt going from we had a 15-year mortgage and start playing with those numbers and you're able to see, okay, we could get out in 10 years. What could happen if we up it another $500, another thousand, hey, we could get done in five years and >> and the interest you don't pay when you do that.

>> That was the big piece for me. >> I was gonna say that's what's motivating. Same with me, girl. That's the motivation of my >> 10 years of interest y'all get to keep >> and spend on whatever you want.

>> I was actually looking at I was actually looking at your values uh here at Ramsey just the other day and it talks about relentless focus over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable momentum. And I really do think that's been our story >> is just looking and saying, "God, we're praying for abundance here." And just seeing, you know, those extra paychecks come in or those little bonuses come in and be able to say, "Hey, we're throwing an extra two grand, three grand at this." and really just having that belief that it's possible at the end of the day.

So, I think that's been our biggest move. >> All right. So, Sarah, I'm getting some along for the ride energy from you.

>> No, no vacations, no new cars.

>> I would say we were not necessarily gazelle intense, which you shouldn't be.

So, that's good towards the house. >> Good. Good. Good. So, you all live some life, too. We backed off.

>> Kyle would have been. >> Yeah, he would have been. >> But he needs you. He needs you to balance a good balance. Excellent.

>> So, we built in incentives along the way. Um, we were able to do some renovations to the house. Um, we had our daughter that took some fertility um treatment monies. Um, so there were

definitely some celebrations along the way, especially when we hit those big um milestones. Do y'all do y'all have a a a a technique or a trick that or a hack or whatever you want to call it that y'all used when Kyle you got that extra check

and you were like we could get the principal down to this and you were like yeah but I want a human in the house like I want I want a child. How did y'all come to some sort of consensus?

>> We definitely used the principles of

just putting some in different places.

um a large majority towards the house of course, but then we have um like syncing funds that are set up for the things that are really important to our family.

So, we know in order which ones we want to fund first >> with any extra. >> That's great. >> I do have to say though that there was definitely those moments where I had, you know, we had a big chunk of money ready to go towards the house and life happens and all of a sudden you're like, "Hey, we got an extra three grand to put towards the house." But then the car breaks down and it just so happens to cost exactly >> three grand. >> Of course.

>> But I I guess when we've looked at that, it's always been God providing uh through that to say, "Hey, you know what?

Like it was supposed it's supposed to be this number, now it's not. And I feel like I got ripped off somehow or whatever. instead of looking at it like you did on the other side. Thank God.

>> It still hurt. >> It still hurt. >> Yeah. >> That's amazing. Do you guys Did you have people in your life that you were telling or did you guys keep it kind of on the down low that you were like we're going to just kind of do this between us or did you have people cheering you on?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh I would say that we were definitely cheering each other around because we just kept having that that vision of what would life be like when this payment was gone and what could we do with that money? But again, just letting our our parents and our families know, hey, this is what we're doing.

We're chasing it down. >> Did they think you were crazy or were they encouraging? >> Encouraging. >> They were good.

>> What a great day. >> Yeah, it was just really powerful just to to have people in our corner cheering us on. >> Absolutely incredible, you guys. Well, you did kind of the impossible.

I mean, today to say that you can pay off your house is most people most people would say no, that's not possible. It's not possible to buy a house. It's not possible to do any of this. And you're living proof that you can and in your 30s, 33 and 37.

How long you guys have been married?

>> Okay. >> Okay. And y'all have done this hard thing together. Y'all got been through fertility treatments. You've paid off a house together. You can look ahead of you and come what may, y'all know we've been through worse. We can handle this.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's really good. >> That's so awesome. >> Amazing. You guys, well, y'all are incredible. Okay. Is is the baby here?

>> She's here. She's here. Okay. Are you going to bring her up for the debtree scream or you going to hold off?

>> We're going to hold off. We just are nervous if we raise our voices. She >> You know what? That's fair.

We've had many tears, not happy kids. And we definitely stay from that. You know what? That's probably wrong.

>> Really happy parents and terrified young kids. >> Terrified kids. Okay.

>> I I'll go ahead and go first and I'll let Sarah share. But I really do think it comes down to belief. Um, when I paid off my student loans, 45K in in a year, paid off my car in a year, those are track records that I had that I knew it was possible. Yeah. >> I just always come back to the quote, uh, Henry Ford, whether or not you think you can or you can't, you're right.

>> Yes. >> And we just knew that we could.

>> I love it. >> So, yeah, I just think the belief part is so key. >> So big. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I just think having a unified mission definitely that's our big thing in marriage is being unified. Um, but with this too, like it might have been Kyle's big dream to to come here and do all of this. Um, but then I I latched on to that too because we need to be unified in all of our our visions.

And then just consistency and being able to track what we're doing and and staying on top of it that way. >> We have weekly weekly kind of marriage meetings and finance meetings and so it's good to stay on track. >> Dude, y'all should teach the money marriage retreat this weekend. >> I know y'all can see you guys.

>> So good. All right, you guys.

their house, making 120 to1 145. They did it in four years. All right, you guys count it down. Let's hear your big deathree scream. >> 3 2 1, >> we're debtree.

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer, and they've been absolutely great.

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We wish we could get to every call that calls in because usually some people leave voicemails and we can try to call them back and get them on the show and then sometimes we can't. So if you have a money question and you want an answer to your specific situation, head to our

website and use Ask Ramsay. So this is our new free AI tool that was built and

trained on money proven principles. So

we have taken the money principles here at Ramsey and gone through it all and said okay here is how we would answer this question. And so it really is amazing. You can ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast you can click the link in the description. All right let's head to Houston and we have Chris on the line >> town. What's up Chris? >> Hi Chris.

>> Hello. Hello. Thank you for taking the call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, I have a dilemma or trilma. I don't know how to call it, but um I'm big car enthusiast and and I really want to send a fun sedan. We have two SUVs,

fully functional. We don't need another car, but I want to. And I just want to

hear your opinion if if it's the time to buy something like that or or I should still wait or not buy at all. I don't know what would be the answer from your side. >> Well, number one, I just want to shout you out, dude. The fact that you called and said, "I don't need this. I want it." Already like put you in a different

category of person that usually calls us. Usually people are calling us and trying to explain why they need this thing so bad. >> So, shout out to you for just keeping it keeping it real, dude. That's awesome.

>> Okay, so Chris, what's your uh financial situation? Do you have consumer debt?

>> No, we only have a mortgage $200,000.

>> 200,000. How much do you guys make a year?

about 17080 depends on the bonuses and

stuff like that. >> 178. Is that what you said?

>> 170 or 180k per year.

>> 180k. Okay. And um what do you have

saved? How much money do you have that you would spend on this car?

>> Well, uh I checked the the net or the

asset every quarter and in January we were close to 800,000 for everything like uh retirement accounts.

>> Oh, retirement. Okay. savings uh the

equity in the house. So everything total came to about a little bit less than 800. Uh we have 45 in cash and another

17 um this what it's called like

investment account that is taxable account. >> Okay. Is the 45 in cash is that all you

have? Does that include an emergency fund too? Is that what you would use in case of an emergency or do you have another fund for that?

Well, uh the the taxable account is also

accessible um as emergency or something like that. But yeah, that's the cash.

It's money market uh 44,000. It's all

emergency and and kind of flash funds.

So I I don't break them by $1,000 or 3

to 6 months. It's just based there.

We're not touching the account.

>> How much from the lifestyle that you guys live? How much do you spend a month on your life including mortgage and everything? How much do you think it is?

>> Food, bills, all very well. Uh it's

about $67,000 a month.

>> Okay. And do you guys do you all have kids?

>> Three. Yes. Three. >> Three. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Well, so you have that 45 and that 17. So I would I would probably want a six month.

>> Not 17. 70.

>> Oh, 70. Oh, I'm so sorry. Okay.

>> So, 110 and 20 depends on the day.

>> Okay. I got you. I got you. Okay.

>> All right. So, um and you guys are consistently investing in retirement over 800,000 you said with equity in the home and retirement and everything else.

>> Yes. Yeah. We put about 20% in retirement. >> Okay. What kind Okay. How much do you want to spend on the car?

>> Well, it's it's about 30 $35,000.

>> Okay. What kind of car is that? used one

uh BMW F550i

sedan. We have two SUVs and I'm growing the desire for a fast sedan >> for a Yeah. What does your What does your wife think?

>> Well, she's not saying no. But then I

have this guilt inside of me. I keep everybody on the budget and now I need to splurge for myself. So, uh that's that's another kind of um factor in the

decision making. Uh I I feel very bad that I keep being on a budget all of us and now suddenly I'll splurge on something that I don't >> we call it a midlife crisis but we all have them so that's okay. >> Probably here's what I would like the money side of it. Here's what I would like to to you to consider on the relationship side of it. What if you took your wife How old are your kids by the way?

>> Uh almost eight, six and four.

>> Okay. So, what if you took your wife out

and y'all spent a half day together that you you planned

and y'all dreamed about, hey, we almost have a million dollars net worth. We have three amazing kids. Our marriage is good.

Like, what do we want our house to look like? What are are some dreams that we have? and give her an opportunity to put some things on the table that she might want, might dream about, things that she would love to see and experience.

And then y'all come up with some ways to fund the everybody's vision. You get

what I'm saying?

>> I do. And we kind of have a quarterly business dates where we we talk about that. We go to a nice restaurant and kind of I give a report. >> Oh, good. >> What changed? Here we are. Where are we doing? What we going to do next? What's your take? What should we focus and focus? >> So, Chris, is there anything? >> No. >> But that's a business report. I want you to do a dreaming report.

>> Uhhuh. Okay. >> Yeah. Is there anything in the future that you guys are you wanting to upgrade the house?

Any renovations? Anyones trip? Yeah. Is there is there anything looming at all that this money >> could be used for?

Or are you guys kind of in a holding pattern right now? You're like, we're kind of good. We're just invested in retirement and kids college. The kids are little and we're just stacking cash because we we have margin.

I mean, nothing nothing depends on those money. Like, we bought we go to Europe every year.

$6,000 on tickets and and we can afford it without going to savings.

>> You can just cash flow it. Sure. >> So, yeah, this doesn't depend on that kind of So, we we have the plan for that. We've done it already.

>> Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, if I'm you, I'm looking at these numbers and I'm thinking, okay, that's 70,000 that's in that one account. 35 of it is emergency fund.

35 would be car. So I'm basically that that account to me is non-existent anymore because I'm not even going to think about the emergency fund. I'm not calculating that. It's just going to be over here in case of an emergency.

Which means we have 45,000 in the other account if something comes up um that again we're not going to touch the emergency fund for. But if you needed, you know, a big purchase, that's that's how I would >> that's where I would go would be that $45,000 fund.

so. There's nothing there's no big red flag right now for me.

>> No, I mean I think you guys are doing great. I think as long as you're consistently investing, you're living below your means, you have the cash for it, um with, you know, an extra $75,000

cushion including the emergency fund after the purchase of this car. I would be okay with it. The only and and financially of course I >> your wife >> I yeah I I want you

and again I my bias is people only call

me when things aren't going well in their marriages. Right? So I don't want to put I don't want to put my bias on you. Okay? >> But I do want you to ask yourself the question and it it might be you taking yourself out for a half day and doing some journaling, some writing out, some dreaming on your own. But do you want to

get this car cuz you love like you said you love you're a car enthusiast. You got a gang of guys you want to drive around with. You just want to go cruising in Houston. That's where I grew up. There's I mean there's hundreds of miles of highways to drive. If like is that what I want to do or >> do I have an 8-year-old, a six-year-old, a four-year-old? I've got a routine and I'm just finding myself getting bored.

>> More more the motivation of the purchase >> because you're going to if that's the case, you're going to spend 35,000 bucks. you're going to be bored on this one and then you're immediately going to start looking for the next one and then the next one, right? >> And so I I would rather you deal with the am I create have I am I co-creating a life with my wife where there's excitement and aliveness and eroticism

and fun and responsibility? Are we doing that stuff together >> or am I trying to escape? >> Or am I trying to escape? And this becomes a really, really expensive, you know, like uh social media app. Just a way to numb out the fact that I kind of starting to feel kind of bored.

>> I see. >> You get what I'm saying? >> Very good advice. Very well. Yes.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, from the financial side, Chris, I think you guys have enough margin. I think you're fine. If $35 left today, I think you $35,000 left today. I think you I think you guys would be fine. I really do. But John's insight is

probably what I would put some of the focus on. So even saying no to this purchase might be a better decision for you, just for you. Um, but if you're comfortable with the answers that you get when you when you ask yourself those questions, then >> get that car and cruise the streets, baby. >> Green light.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and you can give us a call at88255225.

Okay, we're heading to Cleveland, Ohio to talk to Elizabeth. Hi Elizabeth.

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help today? >> Well, I'm looking for guidance on how to wisely handle my elderly mother's finances without enabling a lifetime pattern of debt.

>> Oo, this is a tough one.

>> So, what's the current situation? Yeah.

>> Yeah. My mother is 83. She's single and

lives alone in a rural community in another state. Her only income is social

security of about $1,400 a month. And

she has no savings.

>> For decades, she cycled between being rescued financially and accumulating $40,000 in debt. And it seems as though

that she has a spending addiction and she makes desperate financial decisions and never followed a budget. So, right

now she owns her home outright with low property taxes, less than $1,000 a year,

and the house is set up for aging in place. Our hope is that she can live there and live out her years there. Um, it's far cheaper than renting, and she also has an older reliable car. So, the

situation now is she's currently in debt

of $40,000. Again, it's 32,000 in a

heliloc and 8,000 in credit card debt.

Then she took out various life insurance policies to cover her debt because those television ads during the day geared towards her demographic predatory. Yep.

>> Pardon? >> They're predatory. Yeah. They pray on >> It's awful. >> Exactly. people in her situation lonely, by themselves, isolated, and they scare them to death, and then they sell them a solution to their fear.

>> Right? So, now she's paying $40,000 or

now she's got um $40,000 in debt, paying

interest, making minimum payments, and paying for those life insurance policies.

>> Okay, hold on. Hold on. I want to I want to cut to like the reality.

>> Yes. >> Has she come to you and said, "I have a problem. Will you help?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Awesome. >> So, two So, two weeks ago, she came to me and asked if I could give her $500 to help with some expenses, and I said no.

>> Okay. >> She then made arrangements to make some late payments to creditors, and we took

um we think that she's going to be in dire straits in about a month. So, my

husband and I have an idea that we're considering paying off her debt, taking control of her social security income.

uh putting her on a strict budget, trimming her expenses, getting as much assistance as possible, paying her bills directly, and giving her a small weekly allowance, but currently her expenses are more than her social security. So, she might not get an allowance. We would like to inherit the house. that's in a lake community, but the big concern is pre um how do we prevent her from opening new credit, doing a reverse mortgage, or creating another mess instead of her living within her means with food and shelter?

taking over her finances wise, or is there a better way to address the issue?

I mean, if if she would agree to that

and also agree to signing over um

financial control to you guys, make you like financial power of attorney >> and also freeze her credit.

>> Say freezing her credit >> so she can't take out any loans and no one can take out loans against like you know you know what I mean if if she agre and you had the code right you had to log in to unfreeze her credit.

>> I mean that sounds like a good solution.

I I don't think it's a good solution to

um I don't like the word allowance because I think she's going to bulk at that. >> Okay. >> And because because then she's going to feel like suddenly she's your she's your middle school child.

>> And that's a hard psychological shift for somebody.

>> But if you and also we we want her to have a good quality of life, right? Like I want her to have some money to go do some stuff and whatever. But there is like you said there's a financial reality. So if she agreed to all that, I

could see that being a great solution.

>> Yeah. I mean, I may be Debbie Downer in it in the sense that like when you know, an 83year-old, I don't know how much change is going to occur in her to figure out. >> Yeah. There will be no Yeah, that's a great There'll be no like psychological awakening here.

>> Agree. There's no learning.

>> So, it's more just keeping honestly, it's more just keeping peace with her in her latter part of her life, right? um keeping the lights on and helping her stay afloat. I mean, it's is basically what you guys are doing. You're helping her survive.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But I'll also say if I I think this again, this is my personal take that the main driver underneath a lot of this pathology and aging populations is loneliness.

And so if there was some sort of you have to get involved, you have to do some things with the local community groups, you have to do some stuff because that has a way of >> Yeah. that that will keep her alive longer. That will give her more reason to wake up every day and and all you get what I'm saying? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Do you have siblings, Elizabeth?

>> No, I'm an only child. >> Okay. Okay. and in the sandwich generation of taking care of our own family and >> Yeah. >> Yes. And are you guys in a financial spot to do this?

>> Um yeah, I think so for for that amount,

you know, if as a gift, if we were to cover roughly 40,000, we wouldn't want to do it again.

>> Totally. But you guys have the cash. Like you wouldn't be putting yourselves in a bad position in order to do that.

>> Well, we No. Um, my husband recently retired, so he's got access to um, retirement money. And how much net worth of >> We have a net worth of 2 million.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And what's he say? What does your husband say about all of it?

>> Um, he would like to help out.

>> A, >> sweet. >> That's cool. Is there a possibility, and there's going to be tax implications in this, so sitting down with a good tax pro or tax attorney would be helpful here. Um, is there a possibility that y'all buy the house >> and put it in your name? That way, nobody else can take a lean out on it.

Nobody, she can't take out another heliloc somehow or or you know what I'm saying? >> We considered that. We also have a a daughter in high school and we're about to start funding college >> and we don't want to have more assets.

>> Not until Yeah. Until that's turned over. Yeah, that makes sense. So, yes. I mean, if she is if she's willing to do all of that, Elizabeth, I think that that's I at this point I think that's

smart. I mean, I think you know, you taking over and her I mean, her because it's her literally reaching out to you and saying, "I can't do this anymore because I obviously cannot be trusted." >> Yeah. >> To make smart decisions and I need someone to step in and she's 83. How's her health?

>> Yeah. >> Is her health um is she in good health?

>> Um she she's okay. She has diabetes, so

that's chronic, but other than that, and it's controlled. Okay. >> Um, I'm guessing she'll be with us for at least 10 plus years.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And who knows? I I I if she agrees to all of your things, which I would I would just given my experience, put that as a big maybe.

>> Yeah. >> If she does, you have to steal yourself for she will say mean things to you.

She'll call you crying. She'll be upset with you. Very similar to how a teenager

would be with some pretty significant boundaries. And you and your husband are going to have to know part of this is not just going to be holding the line financially, but we're going to have to have the emotional fortitude to deal with a mom that suddenly turns on us even though we're trying to help. Cuz I think that will come with this territory here.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. And this is more than just our budgeting app. It is now the plan that is built right in. So you can track your progress.

You can get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work the plan even faster. So, it's like having us walk with you every single day through your money journey. So, start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Idaho.

>> Alex, are you there?

>> Yeah. Hey, can you hear me? >> Yeah. Welcome to the show. Good. Good.

Uh, so my question is,

I know Dave teaches to put 15% of your

income into retirement.

Is there ever an appropriate time to stop making those contributions

before retirement?

>> Um, possibly. I mean, investing is is

really part of the whole financial picture that you're looking at for your future and different, you know, generations beyond. How much do you have right now in retirement?

>> I have 850,000 in my retirement. I'm 50 years old. I

plan to work for at least the next 10 years. I th this last year my I put in

20 I did $20,000 in contributions

um and my 401k grew by 100,000.

>> Mhm. >> And so I just when I put my figures into

an investment calculator, it says in the next 10 years with no additional contributions, I'll be at $2.3 million.

And with $20,000 in contributions in 10

years, I'd be at $2.6 million.

So would it be I mean it's a $300,000

difference, but should I start taking more elaborate vacations now rather than

wait? >> How much do you make higher?

>> My wife and my combined income is about

215,000.

215. Okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, you put

20,000 in as your 15%.

>> Yeah. Well, and that's just that's just my side of it. She's she's got a pinchion plan she puts into >> that she's going to be okay.

Well, for me, I think there is it's more than just the numbers to me. Part of it is the numbers and then part of it too is

looking at your whole financial picture and is it balanced? Meaning, we always want to be giving. We always want to be saving. And we want to be spending and enjoy. So, my question to you, is that $20,000 that big of a swing for you guys lifestyle-wise?

>> Well, I'm I'm not sure. Um, it's uh I

mean, I feel like we've got a pretty good lifestyle right now. We go on

vacation and we have fun and and things,

but um again, yeah, $20,000 we could do a

lot more fun stuff.

>> Sure. >> Well, and I guess I would ask you to

expand your time horizon

because you're talking about compound growth over a decade, but imagine yourself at 80 if you live for what, three more decades.

that gap is going to be significantly bigger.

>> Do you get what I'm saying?

>> I do. Yeah. >> And so it again I don't have a calculator in front of me, but you you you say like if I if I go out 10 years, one is 2.3 and one is 2.6.

Um if you go out another 10 years, is it going to be 2.6 or is it going to be four and then it's going to be 6 million? Right? it it begins to compound pretty significantly the longer you go out,

>> right? >> And so, and I'm kind of with Rachel, I

don't get the depth of your question because if you're making 250k a year,

y'all are bringing home a chunk of change. And so, $1,800 a month into

retirement doesn't seem like that will impact your monthly anything at all.

>> Is your house paid off, Alex?

It is. >> It is. Okay. Good for you guys. I mean, listen, you're you're an adult. I think you guys can run the numbers and decide for yourself which one. I just part of the baby steps and what continues on.

Like Winston and I, we have we have enough. We're fine. If we stopped, well, we're not stopping. It is still this continual pattern for us because there is something about the giving, the saving, the spending, all of it that creates something in all of us. It does something for us. And um yeah, I don't

know. I I and it's 800,000 which I get

in seven years it doubles. You know, I'm I know all of that, but there is something about just having some cushion there. And I'm not a big scarcity mentality person, but again, it's not like you have 8 million and we're like, "Oh, yeah, you're fine." There's I don't know. There's still life to be lived.

And you guys, I just don't want you to ever touch that principle to be able to live off the interest. And so, for me, I would continue investing, but you guys you guys can decide. All right, let's go to Darien in Colorado Springs. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. How you doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Um, so we have uh two houses. One I purchased in 2020, one we purchased in 2023 when we got married. Um, we've been renting out the townhouse that we purchased in 23. Um, and it's we bought it and it was on the very like high end of our budget and we, you know, used rental income come to qualify.

Um, but we are now trying to sell it. And when we did have it rented out, we rented it for 2,000 and um, with the HOA and everything, we were losing like 850 a month. >> Oh my gosh.

>> No, it was not. Um, so now we're trying to sell it and we bought it for 350. We still owe 322. Um and comps in the area

show we should be able to sell it, you know, around 325, which is not great because after fees and like title fees and everything in realtors, um our realtor said that we'd probably end up bringing like 30,000 to the table to sell this house, which is wild.

>> Oh. >> Um we looked at like a cash offer for it

and it's um what 2.85. So we'd be 40

under 40,000 under that way. Um,

so I have it listed again um trying to rent it, but um it doesn't have air conditioning and um you know >> why doesn't it have air conditioning?

>> Good question. Every other house in this townhouse complex has air conditioning except for ours. So >> cuz you're Colorado Springs, I guess.

And it's just >> Yes. >> Yeah. But it's been hot there the last few summers.

>> It has. So, I'm not sure how we uh got got away with this or purchased it with it. Um you know, without it. Definitely oversight. But we were newly married and excited to buy a house. So, we did and we went overboard. So,

>> So, what's your question? >> We've we've also looked at I guess uh um

you know, doing like a going into foreclosure, doing a lean in foreclosure. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. >> Yeah. No. >> Yeah. So, this is >> trash whole financial picture. Yeah. No, I wouldn't I mean, I hate to say it, but

>> it's almost like getting a $30,000 loan and calling it stupid tax, which is a lot, but you know, when you make I mean, my my hope would be that you could s that you could sell it. Are you guys I guess you have the two mortgages. How much is the the mortgage?

>> The mortgage on that one is 2600.

>> And are y'all able to cash flow that right now with your current income?

not well because we also have that second mortgage and we have um somebody living in our current house so they're paying a little bit but we're also kind of trying to bless them so we're not charging them what we should be for this >> Wait do you have two Wait do you have a renter in the property right now?

>> Um no in our other house that we are currently living in in our primary the one that I bought in 2020. >> You have a renter in that with you guys?

>> We have Yeah, we have friends that are living with us that are um renting.

Okay.

>> That's a messy, complex situation, brother.

>> Could you sell that your current residence and go back and move into your town home for a season >> with no air conditioning?

>> We I mean, we could. Um, we were paying a little less at the the fourbedroom, which is wild. Um, so the townhouse has 1,400 ft². The uh the other one has like

2,200 ft. So, it is quite a bit bigger.

>> I I get that renovations on it and stuff. I guess hear me say at some point you're going to have to make some sacrifices. >> Yeah. I mean I I'd put on the market and I would try and I would sell it and then if you guys have a $30,000 crap mistake, you know, loan out there that you're like, that is just that was our stupid tax.

That's better than sitting there and paying $2,600 every single month for the foreseeable future, right? So, um, yep. I mean, I would sell it ASAP ASAP.

foreclosure route.

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over on the debtree stage. We have Brandon and Taran from Fresno, California. Welcome you guys.

>> Thank you so much. >> Absolutely. Well, congratulations >> for being debtree. How much debt did you guys pay off? >> Uh $291,000.

>> Oh my gosh. And what was what did that consist of? >> Our house. >> Yes. Another >> another house payoff. Oh my gosh. Okay.

How long did it take you? >> Uh about four years and three months.

>> Four years. And making what kind of income during that time? >> From 100 to 200.

>> Wa. What was the jump? >> Uh side jobs got busier.

>> Sounds like it. I mean 100 grand in side jobs. Not bad. What do you guys do?

>> Doggy daycare. Yeah, that was one of the side >> Yeah. So >> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, tell us what do you guys do for a living and then what were some of the side? >> I'm in I'm in medical appeals. Okay.

>> So, she works from home. I do apartment maintenance. >> Yeah. >> And then for side work, I carry on with that. So, if someone has like a dishwasher that needs work or plumbing, electrical, whatever.

>> I just go there, do stuff, and then they tell other people, and they just keep talking and telling other people.

>> Awesome. Yes. The references are real, right? When people talk about it, >> the references are real. That's like a t-shirt. >> I think so. Absolutely.

>> Like when they were like, "Listen, Brandon's the best." And everyone's like, "Well, let me let me use Brandon."

>> You do medical appeals like on behalf of patients. >> Yeah. I I don't make the decisions. I just build cases. So, >> can On behalf of humanity, can I say thank you for fighting the good fight?

>> A lot. You see a lot of stuff. That's for sure. >> I bet. Okay. So, what happened four years ago that you guys thought we want to pay off almost $300,000 and pay off our house? Well, it started in 2019 when

we were gifted the FPU class.

>> Yeah. >> And uh so we paid off all of our consumer debt. It was 47K. Then it was the credit card for the wedding. It was student loans and it was her car. So after that, then we had the funds to go towards saving for a emergency fund, saving for a house, and which we only put nine nine grand down, but we knew that the ability that we had was so much greater. So we just started smacking the house. >> Oh my gosh. That's amazing, you guys.

Okay, so what was that journey like for four years, >> your focus on it? It was fun.

>> It was honestly a lot of fun. We learned a lot about ourselves and we got it as a wedding gift actually, FPU. And we kind of >> honestly at first we kind of rolled our eyes. We're like, "Yeah, we already kind of know about money a little bit or whatever." And so we're like, "Well, she got it for us.

Let's go to the class." And we left and we're like, "I don't know crap." And it just it changed our lives and we learned a lot about ourselves and each other and >> it it definitely changed our lives for the best and it made our marriage even stronger. >> Was that year one of marriage in 2019 >> when you guys Okay. So, oh man, you guys, that's amazing. Starting off your marriage, changing the way you view money, >> pay off all the consumer debt, you do the emergency fund, all of it, and then you look up, you're like, "All right, now it's time to tackle the house." And you did it in four years.

So, you guys seem very organized. Did you map out and see, okay, how long is it going to take us?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> He's the nerd. He had the spreadsheet and I was like, >> so we use every dollar.

>> Um, but I also did Excel and I would do all kinds of formulas showing like what we originally had for interest, PMI, all of that. It was like 800 and something a month that we were just losing on the house. I'm like, "All right, well, every month when I plug in what the current balance is, it shows lower amounts." And so I'm like, "Oh, like we're saving this much from when we started." And the number just got smaller and smaller each month. And then we're like, "Let's just keep going.

Just knock it out, then we'll move on from there." >> Yes.

>> Okay, that's a lot of side hustles. That means for the last four years, you've been busy. >> So I only did the the after hours um

work for people. She also did Rover and then a ton of people word of mouth as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. The dog sitting is what you were saying, right? >> So, you're like fighting insurance companies and petting dogs.

>> Yeah, >> pretty much. >> You're like a You married a saint, homie. That's awesome. >> I did. I did. >> Was it And was it a pretty good side hustle? We do hear people doing this and I feel like it's like it pays well.

>> It started off as obviously just paying off debt and we paid off our debt and I'm like, I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to stop doing this. It's just second nature to me at this point. And so, She was $600 for over.

>> Yeah. >> And it just went up up up.

>> Kept going crazy. >> Man, you guys are awesome.

>> Well done. Did you guys have people that were cheering you on or or on the other end making fun of you, what you guys are doing with all your working extra and everything? Were people like, "Y'all are crazy." >> Kind of both. Kind of both.

I think the amount of dogs we would have during holidays, they're like, "Y'all are psycho." It's like, "Yeah, we kind of are, but it's worth it." But our families were super supportive. We had friends that were super supportive. like they'd bring it up in conversations like, "Okay, so where are you?" And it's like, "Oh god, I don't even know.

>> Okay. Sometimes people do their debtree scream and they actually hit the last payment a few months ago.

>> Have y'all had it where you both got

your direct deposits in your accounts and you have no house payment?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Tell everybody what that feels like. Um, well, you had the problem of debt before, but your new problem is now you have to think, what do I do with this money >> or like what savings are we going to put in?

>> Thing for most people listening to this, like I have all this money. What do I do with it? Right. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Oh man. What are your next goals? Have you guys kind of dreamed about the future and been like, here's what we >> Yeah.

Well, uh, so we're we're in California now and now that we have a paid off house, we're saving. We actually want to move to Tennessee.

>> Come on, dude. >> That's a beautiful part of the country. >> And with my background, we want to build a big barno on some land. So >> So fun >> at the speed of cash. >> That's a that's a fun dream though. Good for you guys. >> What's this house worth that you paid off? >> Uh right now like 420.

>> Awesome. >> Yeah. >> So great, you guys. So if there's someone listening and they think there

is no way I could pay off my house. I got a 30-year mortgage. It'll be in 30 years. It just is what it is. What would you tell them the secret to paying off your houses? >> Uh, if you're married, be a team and that will get you through and trust God.

There were so many times that like we're both very just like keep your head down and work and work work and then you just kind of look up and we're like, I don't understand where all this money came from, but God was good the entire time and he carried us through and we wouldn't have made it through without him. So, be a team and trust God.

>> Yeah. And be faithful and keep tithing.

>> God God has his rules and he doesn't stop. Don't stop believing in him.

>> Yes. continue it on. Oh, I love it, you guys. Okay, are y'all going to chill on the side hustles a little bit now that you have a paid off house? >> I mean, >> we don't know what that means for just like >> he's going to buy some property in Crossfield, dude. >> I mean, we just went to Costa Rica. We got back two weeks ago. We have a little tan. So, you guys Yeah, we'll slow down a little. She's got a baby going working on the way. So, >> congratulations, first one.

>> Okay. Oh, you guys, what a beautiful.

You're going to bring this kid into the world >> with no financial stress.

>> That's amazing. That's the goal. >> I told him I think the biggest gift is that we're bringing her home to a paid off house. And that's like crazy.

>> Gets emotional just thinking about it.

>> I I'll I'll go one deeper. You're bringing her to a house where two parents love each other and trust each other and have accomplished hard things together. >> Yeah. >> And the greatest gift we can give our kids is to love our spouse well.

>> And like a byproduct of that is y'all paid off your house. Mhm. >> But dude, this kid won the lottery. And not not because of the money y'all make, but because they've got two hardworking parents that love each other and know how to do hard stuff. That's That's incredible. >> It's wild. It's so wild. It's so cool, man. >> So beautiful. Is it different than how you guys grew up?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very. It was growing up for me, I would say it was there were financial problems. I I didn't know about them as a kid, but >> I felt it like you felt the tension and they to say, you know, don't worry about it. But then like growing up and now kind of helping my parents in those ways, I'm like, >> "Oh man." So it's it's crazy. And that's the beautiful part of the the changing your family tree aspect of this, right?

Which I feel like is >> such a bigger why in all of this money stuff that we talk about. You know, yes, we want peace in the present and not having all these payments gives you that. >> Yeah. >> But then there's something even greater of what you continue on in your family.

So you guys, congratulations.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely incredible. Right. >> Let's let it rip. Oh, we got Brandon and Taran from Fresno, California. They paid off $291,000, which was the house in four years, making a h1 to200 grand a year. All

right. >> And mostly side hustles. So awesome.

>> And lots of dogs. Lots lots of animals.

Lots of dogs. >> All right, you guys count it down. Let's hear a big debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1.

>> So great. That's amazing.

The h the house payoff stuff like that is that's just wild. Wild.

>> Anytime somebody a young couple like this in a place like California goes through hell for 4 years to pay off their house, they're like that kid in math class in middle school when you're like, "Nobody can get an A on this." And that kid's like, "I'm going to study so hard I'll get an A." >> They show everybody that yes, you can.

>> Amazing. Congratulations. You guys are proud of you, Brandon and Taran from Fresno. Well done.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is.

I'm gonna save money or I'm gonna get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win.

And our Every Dollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, Every Dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket helping you stay on track all year long.

So don't just wish your money works out.

Download the Every Dollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

Our scripture of the day comes from Psalms 145:16-1 17. You open your hands,

you satisfy the desire of every living thing. The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in his works. Frank Zappa

said, "Your mind is like a parachute. If it isn't open, it doesn't work." >> Yes, that's good. Well done. Open the

mind, learn, >> and jump out of a plane. >> And jump out with a parachute. Uh, all right. Let's go to Newark, New Jersey, and we have Elizabeth on the line. Hi, Elizabeth.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help today?

>> So, I guess I kind of have two questions for you guys. One question would be how

do I get over anger and resentment

towards my husband that has just kind of built up and now it's just coming to a head because he's had life changes.

>> Mhm. >> And then the second question is how do I

express to him I'm scared he is going to

put us in debt without him getting

defensive?

Oh, you're asking impossible questions.

>> That's a marriage therapist to take the lead. >> Okay. So, tell me why tell me why you're angry.

>> Well, I since since I've got pregnant um

back in 2016,

my husband and I only knew each other for about six months. We got pregnant and we both just decided, you know,

we're going to do this thing. I became a stay-at-home mom. He was just kind of

doing his own thing. He's a handyman, works construction. He was picking up jobs here and there, but he needed insurance. And I had a child and put the

child on my insurance. So then once he found like a big boy job, like a corporate job, a good job, we went on

his insurance and I completely like everything went from me to his

responsibility. So, he got his together, so to speak. Um,

and now he left that job and is kind of

doing our side um his side hustle, which

is technically our side hustle because I

have no job still eight years later. Um,

but I feel like he's going backwards

because he finally has freedom again, if

that makes sense. And the resentment is just coming from him picking and choosing when he wanted to help me at home for a stay-at-home mom. For instance, like the house is like I' I've

been burnt out, so the house isn't up to par. Like the laundry is not done, the dishes aren't done, like nothing is getting done in the house cuz I've I'm I'm tired. They said, "Is everything okay?" Instead of just helping and you

know doing it, he's like, "What's going on?" >> Yeah. I mean, if I'm fully honest with you, y'all y'all have deeper issues than I can handle and address on this call.

>> Okay. >> The the and and here's why. Um, y'all

have found yourself self at a place in your marriage where it is you verse him

and he is standing there with his hands out either a choosing to not help you in any way, shape, form or fashion or he doesn't know how to love you in a way that you can feel loved.

>> Yeah. >> And >> and I mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I I know. But but hold on. But that gap

between the two of you cuz here here's what I would tell you. If you have been very clear with him and and again what I'm telling you sucks. It's the worst because it sounds like I'm giving you another thing to do. I get that.

But often I hear I sit with men all over the country who are like I'm trying to love well and I don't I everything I do is wrong and I don't know what to do next. And to to their like I don't

credit them. This is a fault. but they just stopped doing anything.

>> And what I would challenge you to do is to give him a path. Here's what a way here's ways you can love me right now.

>> Okay? >> And that sounds ridiculous. I shouldn't have to tell him. He should just know you're all those things can be true, but the reality is where you find yourself right now is he doesn't.

>> Mhm. And if you're not doing everything

you can on a day in and dayout basis to see each other, to know each other, to celebrate each other, then everything is

a battlefield.

>> Yeah. And that's where we are.

>> Okay. So, somebody has to, you've heard me say this on the show before, somebody has to turn the lights off. I mean, turn the lights on, turn the music off, this this dance y'all are doing, and somebody has to say, "We're married.

We're not in a good place right now. I still want to be married to you, but we got to rebuild this marriage from the floor up. Are you in? And if he says yes, then you have to be willing to say, "Okay, here's what that would look like right now." And he has to say, "Here's what that would look like right now." And you'll both have to get after it.

>> And so, but you got to go you got to go see a professional at this point in your in your marriage because because the resentment is simmering. It's it's too hot. >> Yeah. Elizabeth, I hope that helps. And again, I hate that we can't, you know, unfold and have a solution right now, but honestly, sitting down with someone, a third party, and it's going to be a lot of work for you guys, but it's possible. >> All right, let's go to Toby in Chicago.

Hi, Toby. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. How are we? >> Hi. Doing great. How can we help?

>> Uh, yes. I am getting ready to get a

settlement for roughly three and a half million dollars for my employer at work.

>> Oh, and a half million. What happened?

Uh well, my uh my boss uh pretty much

threatened to uh whoop my butt and fire me. And then they uh retaliated against

me and kept me from getting a promotional job by hiring people who weren't. You have to have you have to have a certain license to to have that job. And they kept hiring people that didn't have that qualification.

>> So you sued them in civil court and you won $2.5 million.

Well, I went through the EEOC and then the EEOC gave me a declaration to sue and then I hired an attorney and we settled. >> Okay. Where are you at financially right now, Toby? Do you have consumer debt?

>> Uh what uh the only debt I have is my

mortgage and that's 108,000.

>> 108,000. All right.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I know how to spend 108,000 of the 2.5. So, it gets you down to 2.4. Um

Okay. Three 3.5 3.5 million

>> 3.5 Oh my goodness. Okay.

>> Well, when it comes to Yeah. I mean, a

large chunk of money, whether it's inheritance, a settlement, anything like that, we always say to remember the three buckets of money, and this is really important because it can e you can easily do one or two of these, but all three are really crucial. And that's to give some, to save some, and to spend

some. And honestly on the spend side, I

would hold off any major purchase.

>> No major purchases, no cars, no jet skis, no nothing for like six or nine months. >> Yeah, I would say for probably 6 months just for you guys to emotionally take all this in and just kind of know where you're at. If you can practice not

significantly changing your lifestyle like in a crazy way, uh, you know, you can go on a great vacation and maybe, you know, upgrade the cars and all of it, but this is this is almost like lottery type money that people win. You know, they'll win like a, you know, a Powerball here or there, whatever it is, and they end up going broke, right? Or, you know, you talk to professional athletes and they get a signing bonus and then three years later they're broke because they they end up spending all of it. So Toby, the the biggest thing is going to be to be really disciplined and to have a detailed plan.

And I would sit down with a smart vest pro and map out for you guys, hey, what could a future look like for us where we can enjoy some of this? Absolutely.

we put this long term that can change us, our kids, our family tree completely? Because how how old are you guys?

Um, I am 33 years old and my my

girlfriend, um, she is 28.

>> All right, we got a girl in the picture.

>> Both of us are both of us are

pretty much debtree. Um, >> okay. Is she the Is she the one?

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll be uh she uh she just finished We had an agreement that we were going to get married after she finished her college. Um, and she just finished her master's degree.

>> Okay. >> Right. So, your first $3,000 is buying a ring. Or if you're Rachel, your first $50,000 is buying a ring.

>> Not 50. I was going to say at least five, John, of the three point something. >> Well, and I already have I already have a ring bought, but I was that that was one of the first things I thought was getting something a little bit nicer. >> I love that.

Yes, Toby. Absolutely. And you know what? You guys need to sit down sit down and have some great premarital counseling because you guys are walking into wealth.

I mean, in this whole >> And it 100% will change your relationship. >> Yes. and you don't know how to handle it all right now because you haven't done it before. So remember, discipline practice.

Uh well, that's it for the show.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 232. There's No Financial Progress Without A Plan | August 11, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:12:51 |

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[Music] From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my friend Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at88255225.

you call us up. We'll do our best to give you the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Sarah? How can we help today?

>> Um, so my question is, uh, how do I tell

my mother-in-law or my husband that my mother-in-law is holding us back financially? Um, she's 60 years old. She

doesn't work. We pretty much pay for everything, her rent. Um, we my husband

has his her car in his name, but she pays like the car note and she's

constantly asking for money. Like at one point she was asking me for money and telling me not to tell my husband.

>> Yikes. >> Um, there's been >> Well, this is a pattern. This has been happening for a long time.

>> Yes. And he's in the past, maybe about 10 years ago, she actually lost her apartment. like stopped paying rent, lost it, and then had to move in with a friend. And so he's been taking care of her. >> Is she unwell? Is she sick?

>> She's not sick. She does collect like a check from the government. I think it's only $1,000. >> Disability. >> Uh yeah, disability.

>> What do you know what that was for?

What's the nature of that?

>> I don't know. >> Okay. But nothing that you're seeing as a real issue to her working? No, because I I've seen her volunteer her time at like homeless shelters or like thrift stores and she'll tell me, "Oh, I volunteered my time and they gave me a discount on X, Y, and Z." >> She's on the verge of being in a homeless shelter. She needs to get to work. >> Is she divorced or did her husband pass away? What's the story there?

>> Um, she divorced maybe when my husband was like not even one years old. She's been on her own >> with two kids for a really long time.

So, your estimation of her, I just want to make sure that George and I understand your estimation of her. She is able-bodied, able to work. Uh, she's

all the lights on, are on upstairs, so she could, you know, go interact and and have a job. And are you just feeling like she's kind of just uh coasting or a little little lazy? Is that how you're feeling? >> I think she's just Yeah. And she's really That's how I feel. Exactly. She's really lazy. Um, right now I have a newborn and I have her in daycare and

they want me to switch and employ her for and give her the $1,000 instead of the daycare. But I feel like if I do that, >> she's going to just use the $1,000 for whatever she wants instead of paying her rent. >> Ah, okay. Would she do a good job taking care of the baby? Do you feel like she would? >> No, I don't feel like she would.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> understood. >> So, I just >> there's some triangulation happening here. This should be between you and your husband and then it should be between your husband and his mother.

>> And right now she's trying to circumvent him to go to you to try to guilt you into it. Have you talked to your husband about this? Where is he at? Is he just like, "Well, we need to take care of her and she's my mom." >> Exactly. That's how he feels. And I've even told him like, "Hey, you know, I

would like give it an I would give her

the opportunity to watch um my daughter if I could just pay use the $1,000 and

pay it straight to her rent instead." >> But you said you didn't even trust her to watch the baby. I feel like that's a moot point at this point.

>> That's true. Yeah.

>> So, we got to take that off the table.

Um here's the thing.

Um, the only reason you're considering letting this woman watch your your child, even though you don't think that she's really would be do a good job, is because you're thinking of ways that maybe she could start paying her rent.

None of that's your job.

>> She's grown. Like you said, she's grown.

She's able-bodied. She's, you know, the lights are on. There's no reason in your mind, and I trust that you're telling us the truth, that she can't go out and make some money and have an apartment and, you know, do that thing. Now, at the very least, can I ask you this? Let's pretend you were able to get her out into an apartment. Is um and and it

caused you to kind of say, "Hey, let's help you with first and last month's rent just to get you out." Would you be willing to do something like that or are you like, "Hey, I don't want to put any money into this woman whatsoever. I just want her out of the house." >> I don't want to put any money into her at all. >> Okay. Then that's the conversation you have to have with your husband. Have you talked about it? And if so, what did it what did it how did it go?

uh it doesn't go really well. It's usually like Jill will just consider it and then that's the end of the conversation.

Um I have told him that like I do consider it but it's off the table because she owes me money. She borrow money from me and I don't think she's very good with money and so I just I don't want I don't feel comfortable giving her $1,000 a month and knowing that she could be homeless or asking me

for more money. What do you guys take home every month?

>> So, I make a h 100,000. So, a little

over 100,000. So, my checks are usually like $3,000. I don't give to my 401k right now. >> Why is your check so low? >> You mean like every two weeks?

>> Every two weeks. >> Oh, okay. Loving that. >> You scared us. I was like, you're getting robbed here. >> For Yeah. 6,000 for me and it's like around >> What about your husband?

>> 7,000. >> Okay. For him. Do you guys combine your finances or do you kind of keep it separate and you know you split the bills?

>> We keep it separate and mainly because she usually asks for a lot of money from him >> and so I just don't want to be a part of that. >> So I'm going to be honest with you. I think um that could be at the core of what's making this a very hard decision between you and your husband. Because if I am viewing my finances kind of separately, which means there's parts of my life that I view separate and that means there's certain parts of my life that I believe that I have the only vote on.

She's my mom." Do you see what I'm saying? Because there's that separation there. I think that's where he's finding validation to be able to say, "No, it's okay. I'm going to keep her here." Cuz he's probably viewing it as a I'm keeping it here.

>> I'm fine to spend some money on her. It doesn't bother me. But if you guys can get Does that make sense? Like George, are you >> Yeah.

I mean, because it's separated, he's gone, well, this is a thousand bucks of my money, so what's it matter to you? That's probably in the back of his mind. I don't know that he'd say that out loud, but truthfully, you're saying this is holding us back financially. >> It's not.

You make 13 grand a month take-home, you're doing great. It's the resentment that is breeding inside of you that should be the thing you're paying attention to going, I don't agree with this. We never agreed on this as a couple. We need to figure out an exit strategy here or a way for her to be independent cuz she could live till 90, which means 30 years of subsidizing her lifestyle.

That's the part you need to focus on. Not that, hey, this is holding us back financially, husband.

>> Yeah. And that's how I feel. I'm like, we are investing so much money into her.

She could live until she's 90 and then our kids will have to take care of us >> and it's your house.

>> So much. Exactly. >> The money side part part aside, that's there's a person that's in your house that you don't really want them to be there and they don't need to be there.

And if you're giving her a th000 a month, we can figure out a plan for her to go make a th000 a month with a part-time job. >> Yes, exactly. >> She's 60. She's not 86. And so there's

nothing wrong with her going to work if she's able-bodied. And you can help her with that. It doesn't need to be cruel. You don't need to throw her on the street. It's just, hey, what is something you could do that brings in $250 a week?

>> Exactly. >> Now we have a game plan here instead of just it being emotional. >> Yeah.

And you might have to bear this out a little bit longer until you're at that point in the conversation.

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Christine is up next in Los Angeles, California. What's happening, Christine?

How can we help?

>> Hi there. Thank you so much. Um, I've

I'm my own worst enemy. I'm going to call myself out. I've choked a couple times um trying to keep up with the budgeting.

Um, I just I'm not tech technically savvy at all, but I've come a long way.

I've got the first four steps done, I

think. Um, but now I'm starting to

question myself again cuz last year I was ready to start the life insurance

and then I choked and didn't do it. And

then I'll start listening to the show again and I'm like, I need to get this done. And >> what's stopping you from getting life insurance? Because that's not even a baby step.

um because I'm putting money into other

other things, getting those savings done

and starting to build, you know, the the

emergency fund and everything. Um and we

have put our daughter through private school, so that's all done. Um I just

started a new job where I'm making more than I thought I would be making. So, I want to set that separately and I was going to put that in the Roth IRA,

but I'm like, I really think we need life insurance because we ain't getting any younger and we're in our mid50s. So, I'm kind of panicking.

>> I wonder if you're trying to do too much of this on your own cuz I hear the I heard the word we. So, you're married.

>> Yes, it is me.

>> Okay.

>> It is me doing this. Maybe that's part of it because it sound you sound tired like you sound like you know you were like I tried to do this and you know I'm my own worst enemy and I choked when it was time to do like I feel like the way you're talking about it is very like it's a >> clean house ladies >> I mean the actual process of like xander.com enter age birthday health submit get

quote >> I mean >> like it's not I think there's more to it so what happened after that >> okay I did that and I got the call but I was unsure what how much

see I wanted to get to some facts we could help you solve. So what is your concern about how much? What is your current income?

>> Um I don't know if I can answer that off the top of my head. >> Ballpark it. Is it 10,000 or 100,000

>> monthly? >> Every year. >> A year. Every year. that I don't know cuz I don't do that >> Christine. Not you working and putting your life into your work and not knowing what >> someone like hired you because you're smart and stuff. >> You got to know what you're >> and they probably said here's your offer letter with the salary, right?

What was the number on that piece of paper you signed? This is Who Wants to be a Millionaire? >> It's not salary. It's not salary.

>> Oh, are you sales? Is it commission?

>> Yes. >> Oh, is it all commission? >> Okay, I see it. >> At a winery. Yes. At a winery. And it's not full-time. It's part time.

>> Okay. So, on a month on a monthly basis, like what's a what's a kind of normal check for you? >> Monthly on a monthly basis, our total

income is probably close to 7,000.

>> But what's your what's your income of that? Because we want to know what percentage like how to multiply and figure out your insurance that you need.

>> Okay. Now, I feel unprepared. Um, I should know that. >> So, what you're going to need you're what you're going to need is about 10 to 12 times. That's what we're looking at.

>> Your annual income. >> Mhm. Not household, just yours personally. Cuz the point of life insurance is to replace your income should something happen to you.

>> Okay. So my annual income my >> So that's your that's your homework.

>> Okay. 10 to 12%.

>> 10 to 12 times. >> 10 to 12 times. So if you made $100,000

10 times, you'd have a million dollar coverage.

>> If it's $50,000, you need at least $500,000 in coverage on a term life policy. Ignore anything that says whole life or permanent life or universal life or index. I ignore all of that, >> okay? >> Stick to term life.

>> And the same thing for your husband, by the way, would be true if he's, you know, working outside the house, which it sounds like he is.

>> No. >> No. Elaborate.

>> Um, he we have a special needs adult son. >> Okay. >> 25, nonverbal, low functioning.

>> Okay. autism. So, he is now the primary

caregiver. >> Understood. >> In the home. >> Okay. So, then >> So, you're tell you're bringing home $7,000 a month working part-time at a winery on a commission job?

>> No, that's I wish. No, that's what I'm

like kind of estimating is our total income. >> How does he get money or is that some of that money for your child?

>> It is. So, it's that whole inhome support services because we get paid to

care for him. >> Okay? Which means your husband really needs life insurance because he's providing an invaluable service to your home. >> You need private inh home care full-time if something happened to him.

Translation, >> it's both of us, you know, technically it's both. >> Yes. But you're able to work outside the house. My point is, if something, god forbid, were to happen to your husband tomorrow, >> you would suddenly be like, "Oh my gosh, I need another body in this house. I need somebody to do the things that he was doing. So, make sure he also has a policy, you know, four or five times >> that, you know, what he's what his value is, if that makes sense. Okay?

>> And we can monetize it by the money that is being brought in for your son's care.

>> Okay? >> So, let's straighten out your financial situation. You guys are completely debtree and you have an emergency fund.

>> Yes. >> How much is in that emergency fund?

>> 18. >> Okay. Good. And now baby step four, we're investing 15% of our household income.

Are you guys doing that into retirement accounts right now?

>> No, that's where I'm stuck. >> Okay. So, you're going to do that regard. You're going to get term life insurance today and you're going to start prioritizing. So, there's no priority. The 401k doesn't take priority over life insurance because they're not in competition. >> Life insurance is going to happen today.

You apply for that. You'll pay monthly, quarterly, annually, however you want to do it. And then you're also going to put 15% of your future income into those retirement accounts, >> right? Okay. So, that's what I was trying to do is just take my commission

from this new job and all my cash tips

and that's what I'm saying. I'm working for my retirement fund. That's what I'm trying to do. >> Okay, that's that's a way to think a bit of it, but it's not necessarily it could do you a disservice because if that's not 15% of your income, you could be investing far less.

So, what you need to do is I'm going to challenge you to get very organized here because to do what George and I are telling you, you're going to have to really do some diligence and look back on your year and say, "Okay, what do I make a year?

or you could just do uh month by month whatever I earned? I'm going to calculate what 15% of that was before I paid taxes and I'm going to, you know, park that away in a Roth IRA." >> Okay? But 15% is what you're looking for because if you're not doing that, you may not make meet the goals that allow you to retire with dignity.

>> Okay. >> How old are you? >> You're welcome.

>> Hi. I am 52 and he is 57.

>> Do you guys have uh combined finances or are you kind of doing this on your own?

>> Doing it on our own.

>> Okay. >> On our own. That's a that's an interesting turn of phrase. So, is he doing his own thing?

and he's going, "Hey, you do what you want to do, but I got my own thing going over here." >> No, no, no, no. I'm just trying to take over this role so he doesn't have to.

>> He does other things.

>> Um, and it's kind of complicating. So,

let's talk about that then because there's a difference between um somebody kind of running point on a team

>> versus I do everything myself because no

one else is part of this. So, you

running point on a team which the team would be you and your husband would be maybe you taking the lead and saying, "Hey, um we need to do life insurance."

And him taking a vested interest and saying, "Okay, great. Are you calling Xander?" And you're like, "Yeah, I am." and you guys having that communication because just having that communication takes some of the load off of you as opposed to I have to get the life insurance. I have to do the research. I have to make the call.

I have to make the budget. I have to, you know, sign up for the Roth. >> You're going to get overwhelmed real quick. >> No, you're not okay with that.

You're not okay cuz you're calling us. You're calling us. You're not okay with it. So, my point >> Initially, I was okay with it.

Now, I'm stuck. >> Right? So, you need to start having a conversation with your husband and saying, "Here's the thing. There's things that you're carrying in the in the house, and there's things that I'm carrying, but when it comes to finances, we need to carry them together because I'm getting overwhelmed.

Here's what I need from you." And tell him what you need. >> It's that simple. >> Yeah.

We have a really great coverage checkup tool that will demystify all of this for you. Make sure that you have the right coverage. Not too much, not too little, not coverage you don't need. Exactly what you need for your family. So, go check it out. ramiesolutions.com/checkup.

Hopefully, we can simplify your finances.

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2th3 of Americans die without a will.

When you do that, here's what happens. You are just inviting the court, lawyers, and the public into the most personal part of your life. So, don't let the government decides what happens to your estate or even worse, your children. I want to challenge you to create your will this August.

In less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

use the promo code will month, that's one word, willmon at checkout during the

month of August. Again, ramseolutions.com/willsquiz is the place to go. Get it done. Whether it's term life or the I know it's the last thing you want to go spend 15 minutes doing. >> Well, George, we had the perfect segue getting into this because during the break we were talking about self-driving cars. >> Oh, that's right. >> We could have just >> That's why I have a will just in case the car decides no, no more. This is my

final destination.

I do think that would happen to me. Like my car just stops on the interstate at 80 miles hour for no reason.

>> I will I don't think my heart can handle a self-driving car. I don't think that I could do it. >> Here's the thing. I trust robots more than humans at this point as far as their safety. >> If they were all self-driving cars, maybe that's different. But as long as like >> Here's my challenge to you. Next time you're driving, look over at every car and see how many of them are just texting on their phones. I know, scrolling Instagram, not even paying attention. At least the robots have like sensors and cameras. They're trying.

>> That's true. >> Humans have just given up. >> They've given up. I'm like, they're on Instacart. They're on I'm like, "What are you doing? Don't you see your very life is at stake? Anyway, >> there we go. Moving on. Get your will.

>> Michael's in Fort Meyers, Florida.

What's going on, Michael?

>> Hey guys. Uh, so I'm 22 years old. Got married uh 8 months ago, >> and we are currently living in a family

friend's house. They are missionaries, so they're out of the country for a year um until next June. Um, so they're renting to us at $800 a month, um, plus

utilities, which comes to about $1,300 a month. Um, and my question is, uh, when June comes, should my wife and I either,

um, rent a place nearby and, rent an apartment until we can save up for a down payment for a house, should we go immediately and use all first-time home buyer benefits to buy a house, or my parents are offering us to stay at their place for 6 months while we are able to save up some money for a down payment.

>> What do you guys make a month?

Uh, currently $7,000 plus uh commission.

>> Amazing. So, what are you doing with all that extra money? Sounds like your expenses are super low.

>> Um, well, currently uh we have uh

$27,000 in car payments or well in uh car loan

total. >> Okay. >> Anything else? >> Any other debt? >> Um, no, that's it.

>> No student loans? No credit cards?

>> No student loans? Uh, no credit cards.

>> Okay. So, um, how long would it take you

to save up a down payment to where you have a mortgage that's no more than 25% of your take-home pay?

>> Well, I I think theoretically, if I I

see there's some um first-time home buyer uh program that allow you to do 3.5. >> Wrong answer. We said, how long is it going to take you to save up a down payment? Not how do you get into a 0% mortgage where you're underwater day one broke with a huge mortgage payment because you have 100% mortgage. That's what you're telling us.

>> Got it. Okay. >> So, this is we're talking a 15-year fixed rate mortgage >> where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. So, when you use our mortgage calculator at ramseyolutions.com, it'll show you pretty quickly what kind of house you can actually afford. not what the bank says you can afford, not what the FHA, USDA loan says you can afford.

>> So, let's work this plan. Let's kind of work this out for you to help you out.

So, first things first is we need to pay off the debt that you have. So, this is the this is the order in which this will take place so that you can purchase this house when the time comes and it can be a blessing for you and not a burden to where you're not calling us back a year and a half later saying I'm I'm underwater in my house. I'm struggling with my house payment. Okay.

So, the first thing what we need to do is tackle the debt. And the way we're going to do that is we're going to start by saving up a,000 bucks.

off this debt, this $27,000 uh car debt that you have. >> How much do you guys have in savings?

>> Uh well, currently $1,000 cuz we're trying to pay off the debt. >> Okay, great. So, you understand that part. Um, and I want you tonight, your homework, if you haven't already, is I want you to get on every dollar and then I want you to calculate how long with the with the margin and the income that you have, how long will it take you to pay off this $27,000 of car debt. So,

that's your homework. Then the next thing after you've paid the debt off is now we need to have an emergency fund because you can't be out here buying a house. You can't buy a $400,000 house and then when the $4,000 AC blows out, you're up a creek, right? That doesn't make sense. So, you got to have some money saved to be able to actually care for the house and the things that go along with home ownership. So, you need 3 to 6 months of expenses saved in an

emergency fund. That comes after you've paid off the debt. And then now we can start saving up a down payment. So, you've got a ways to go. You guys are newly weds for crying out loud.

>> 22. You're doing great. >> You got a long ways to go. You're not in a rush. You're not in a hurry. So, let's take your time and do it right. >> I gave you Can I give you some napkin math to help you with this, Michael? I think it'll give you some motivation.

Yeah, please. >> You make seven grand a month. Could you throw 4500 of this at your debt if you got real intense?

>> Uh, probably >> every month. Okay. Then your debt is gone in 6 months. So February of 26, you're debtree. Tracking?

>> Mhm. >> Now take the car payments plus the 4,500. You could throw 5 grand a month toward that emergency fund, couldn't you? >> Yeah. >> Four more months, we have 20 grand.

Still tracking. >> Mhm. >> We're at June of 26. Your missionary friends are back. You guys go and rent somewhere completely debtree, still making 7,000 plus commission. Now, you could save five, six grand a month toward a down payment fund, couldn't you? >> Yeah. >> That's 60 70 grand a year.

So, now we're renting for a year or two.

We have a six-f figureure down payment, no debt with an emergency fund. Do you feel how peaceful it would be to buy a house like that?

>> Yeah, definitely. >> And by the way, you're like, I don't know, 24 by then. Just a young gun. Just

a whippers snapper. >> And there's no law in America as it stands that says you have to buy a home by 25 or else you're a loser. That's just what social media told you.

>> Oh gosh. Otherwise, I'd 100% be the loser. >> We don't. Hey, I've been called a loser for other reasons. So, I hope that encourages you. Michael, you're doing better than you think. But I would not rent with family. I would just go rent somewhere. You got to be with your spouse. >> Cuz when I'm at my mom's house, here's what happens. Mom says, "No, no, no.

Don't lift a finger. I'll fold that laundry. Let me cook. Let me grab your plate. And there's something about being an adult and leaving the whole leave and cleave >> and being one with your spouse to go, I'm an independent grown man.

>> Let's visit for the holidays. >> You went to the nice example. I'm like, you're in your room, you're with your lady, and here's mama knocking on the door, and you're like, >> I brought snacks, >> right? >> You're like, now it's not >> going to be very happy to hear that. And you guys, if if you guys were in like some real desperate stage of life and you needed a place to crash for a little bit, sure, there's no crisis happening here. You guys are making great money.

You're going to get rid of the car payments fast. You've got a good housing situation. Use it to your advantage to to get to a better place financially.

And avoid the FHA, VA, USDA. Stick with

the conventional fixed rate loan. 15 years is going to set you guys up for success. Cuz think about this. If you get a house at 25, let's say, and you get a 15-year loan, worst case, if you just make the minimum mortgage payment, you are completely debtree by 40.

You know how weird that makes you in America today? >> Yeah. >> So, just know it's not going to happen tomorrow, but if you just follow through on this plan to a tea and don't veer from it, you will be completely debtree by 40 worst case. And likely what's going to happen is you'll be debtree by 34 cuz you're going to go, "Oh, we can knock this out in >> nine years instead of 15 >> because you did it the right way with margin." >> Michael, be honest.

>> You You convinced me. You convinced me.

I uh one other question if I could. Uh uh we do plan on having kids within this time frame. Would that affect any of the finances or anything? >> Oh, yeah. It's all out the window. Forget I said anything.

>> I'm kidding. Kids are a wonderful blessing. >> Yeah. go definitely have the kids. Yeah, you might have some daycare costs pop up. Obviously, that like George said, he did napkin math for you. So, there's going to be some variables in there that change, but by and large, you're still on track. >> If you say 4,000 instead of 5,000, that

you're still going to be just fine. The key is, can you live on less than you make and use the surplus to get through the baby steps? That is the key >> regardless of the number. Now, the bigger the number, the better. It's going to speed it up. But, uh, kids are a blessing. And if that's in the cards for you guys, go for it. And >> you'll be making more money, too. All of it. All of it balances out.

>> Thanks for the call, Michael. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Music]

If you're enjoying today's show or any episodes of the Ramsey Show, be sure to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, send it to someone that you like. Hey, even someone you hate. That could be even more fun.

Really tee them off. >> Oh yeah. But that's a great way to help spread the word about the show and uh it kicks up the algorithms and and helps us get hope to more people and that's what we need in America and beyond right now is some hope. Madison is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's going on Madison?

>> Hi. Um I am a teacher and my husband has

a pretty good job in the city. Um, and we have a son and I had no intentions of being a stay-at-home mom, but now after a year and a half, I would love to be a stay-at-home mom. >> Love it. Love finds a way, doesn't it?

>> Tell us the tell us the limitations you feel you're facing in doing that.

>> Um, so being an educator, I have really good health benefits. I have a decent amount of time off in the summer and holidays, so I do feel like it is a best

case scenario job being a mom. But um we

we have a house. So we did our whole like budget and everything before we had the baby off of two incomes, >> of course. >> So to go down to one income, I think is terrifying. >> What does it do when you were to go if you were to go down to one income? What does that do mortgage wise for you? So what percentage does your mortgage eat up of that one income?

>> Um I would say my salary covers the mortgage. So, what's your husband's salary?

>> 120. >> Okay. So, what's he actually taking home

every month? >> Uh, that's Oh, a month he is taking Oh

my gosh. I feel like I don't even know.

>> That's okay. Is it like >> seven or eight? >> Seven or eight?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's say 7,500. And then how much is your mortgage?

>> Our mortgage right now is 3,300.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, you don't it's it's that's tight. edging up to half your income, half the take-home pay going toward that mortgage, which is a lot.

Now, is that does he investing right now in his his 401k and is he covering some health care premiums through his checks?

>> Um, yes. So, he unfortunately he can't be on my healthcare, so I cover it for my son and I. Um, but yeah, he is a big in retirement like he is putting money aside and all that stuff. Also, he puts money into an account for our son's education. >> Okay. I just want to be clear that our 25% parameter is about your after tax income but before other deductions like health care premiums or retirement investing which could help your numbers.

>> It could help them a lot. So that I think that'd be your homework is go home and find out what that number is again just the after tax amount like George said and then say okay what percentage will our mortgage be of that money? Now if you're like 30 you're fine like you can make that work even maybe up to 35 you possibly could make that work for a while. like nothing's on fire.

It'll just be tighter and a little bit slower to get through the baby steps. >> But if you start creeping to the 40s, you're going to really feel that.

>> Um, so right now we just have our mortgage and my husband's student loan debt, but those are the only two debts that we have. >> How much is a student loan debt?

>> Uh, 90. >> Girlfriend, how are you going to save that till last?

>> Um, so right now we like doubles. what he puts towards his student loan. We're on track to have that paid off in seven years. Um, >> can I challenge you guys?

>> That plan sucks.

>> Oh, >> so what I would have him do is pause investing, which is going to hurt his soul, isn't it? Cuz he loves investing.

>> Yes. >> You know what else it does? Lights a fire under him to get rid of those student loans so he can get back to doing what he loves, which is investing.

Cuz right now, he's essentially borrowing money to invest. That's what you're doing by delaying your debt payments to invest instead.

>> Okay. >> So, >> yeah, >> Madison, is it is it one baby or two?

>> Um, we just have one right now, but love the idea of one more. Um, and we're also it's I feel like it's like a blessing and a curse, but even if we had another baby, my my salary is still more than child care would be.

>> So, so >> it's just like I feel physical pain when I'm away from my family. >> I get it. Listen, you're preaching to the choir. I understand. Um uh those the

the mortgage piece of this is a very large piece of this puzzle and you doing the due diligence with your husband to figure that out and then $90,000 of student loans is a big piece of this puzzle. What I if I were in your shoes as a mom of two and understanding what it feels like to leave babies at home, I would play out both scenarios because

there is a piece of this that uh the

relational part matters. You wanting to be at home with the kids and having that time that matters, but quality of life throughout that time also does matter, right? So, if you keep the $90,000 of debt and the mortgage is 50%. That's just you literally being at home with the kids y cuz y'all don't have any money to go anywhere.

So, there's part of this where you do want to play that out and go, what would it look like? Maybe just six more months of working could really change this scenario. Maybe 12 more months of working could really turn this around to where we could pay off this debt and then when we have baby number two or during that period. Do you see what I'm saying?

So, I I don't think that I would jump right into this if you care whatsoever about how staying at home feels financially.

>> but again, that's for you and your husband. I mean, I don't think there's there's not a wrong answer or does that make sense? >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's there's a math problem here and there's also an emotional >> non-logical thing here, which is I just want to stay home with that baby. Mhm. >> And if you're really wanting that, then it's going to require sacrifices.

>> And those sacrifices might mean, hey, we need to downsize the house. You need to go make more income and or you need to do something part-time when he's at home watching the baby if you want to make this work for now. Now, if you get out of debt and you have an emergency fund, it's going to change the game for you guys and reduce the stress.

>> Do you have money saved? How much?

>> Yeah, our um savings account right now

is like 17,000.

>> Okay. Okay. So essentially that kind of

puts you a, you know, gives you a little boost on the debt because if if you choose to do it our way, which I did it this way, George did it this way. Um, what we do is we say, "Okay, we keep $1,000 aside. That is just our temporary basic emergency fund, and everything else goes towards our debt so we can get it paid off really, really fast." And so for you to do that, yeah, that drops you down and now you're in the 70s instead of in the '9s and you can clip through that a lot faster, especially if you're both working >> and he pauses investing and you guys throw a little over four grand a month toward the student loans.

Well, they're gone in 18 months. Few months later, you have your emergency fund. So now it's like, okay, what if in two years I stayed home once I have the second baby and for now we do the daycare thing or we find an alternative route for child care? That might be the way you go.

I'm not saying you guys don't decide you're not going to do it today. >> But if you want peaceful finances in the meantime, and both of you aren't stressed out to your eyeballs, you might want to just go, "Hey, we're going to still accomplish this dream, but here's the timeline, and here's what we're going to do. We're not going to do 19 things at once. We're going to do the baby steps with focus because we both agreed this is the priority.

>> And I did have one more question. So, everyone talks to me all the time about this magical pension that eventually I will get. Is it worth getting like giving that up?

>> Teachers pension >> that I just >> What was that? >> The teachers like your teacher's pension. >> Yes. I mean when you say magical I would

say no because I mean don't get me wrong it's nice to uh contribute to something and have funds there but the best way that you can re uh to me the best possible way is when you have more control over the funds. So if you're contributing the same 15% and you're choosing the funds in a Roth IRA or you know you open another vehicle I think that that is just as great.

>> What Jade's trying to say is pensions perform very poorly and they die with you. But if you invest on your own, you're going to see higher returns with more control and you can pass that money down generationally.

>> And so pensions aren't they're not all what they crack are cracked up to be there. Hey, if you got one, great. I'm happy for you. But I would not stick with this career for 25 years and, you know, let down the dream of being a stay at home mom all for a pension.

You can create your own wealth and your own sort of passive income through your nest egg later on down the road. >> And so this is going to be a tough conversation with your husband. I feel like you're more on board to do whatever it takes. and he might be like, "Uh, I'm not giving up investing.

Forget what those Ramsay guys said.

>> Right. >> Let him listen to this call.

>> Yeah, I will. And we grew up very differently. He was definitely um had a little bit more heartache financially growing up. And I, my parents were Dave Ramsey fans. They kind of instilled that in us. >> Okay. >> Um but we have different like life

upbringing. So, I think it scared him to go down to one income where I'm like, let's just take the risk. Well, it won't be a risk if you do it the right way, which is what George and I talked about. >> We're getting the boat close to the dock if you follow the baby steps with intensity for another 18 to 24 months.

We are rooting for you to be at home with that baby, Madison. Best of luck.

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Live from the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls88255225.

Aaron is in Danbury, Connecticut. What's going on, Aaron?

Oh, hi George and Jade. So nice to talk with both of you. >> You, too. What's going on? >> Um, I Yeah, I wanted to run uh something

by someone else that I've been thinking about. Um, a plan my parents told me

they're um going to do for retirement.

>> And I'm just trying to figure out if it sounds like at best it just has some pitfalls or if at worst it's sketchy.

>> Okay. >> All right.

So, they have found a retirement community that they think is spectacular.

>> They've put a little um like down down

payment on like a waiting list.

>> Mhm. >> And they told me about the entrance fees and I can't understand like the idea of a refundable scalable entrance fee.

>> What do you mean like every time you drive up or like a club fee?

>> Oh, no. That's a good question. No, like a down payment on living there. Um,

>> yes. >> So, you could pay like for example $400,000 for a like a twoerson

condo and you don't get any refunds or

you could pay like almost a million dollar and get like 90% back in a year

or something >> to be on the waiting list.

Well, after the waiting list, this would be like they would pay a huge sum of money to these people, but they have a choice. Like, >> help me understand. >> 100,000, for example, and not get any Well, that's what I don't understand.

>> Are you talking about a down payment on the house? Are you talking about like a a like a fee for being part of the club and having amenities? Are you talking about some sort of fee to be on the waiting list? It's like a retirement community where they're going to like plan to live for the rest of their lives. >> Understood. >> So it's like just to live there forever.

>> So you're saying they're going to pay $400,000 on top of the price of the home just to live there, >> right? On top of the monthly fees. Yeah.

But the people who go up the sliding scale and pay like a million dollars get like some kind of 90% refund after a

year or something. Hm. It >> just seems really weird to me.

>> I I'll be honest. I'm having a hard time understanding it because I don't think you also have all the information. Now, >> have you talked to them personally?

>> Well, so that's Yeah. So, that's a good question. And I don't have powdered butt syndrome. I'm not going to tell them what to do at all, but I'm trying to like gauge where uh it could potentially

affect my life. Like, >> oh, >> do they have this kind of money?

Um, it might be like most of their nest

egg. Yeah. When they Yeah. When they go.

>> I mean, does that include the residence is what I'm trying to find out. Does the 400,000 include where they will actually live? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then a monthly fee on top of that.

>> So, they're paying $400,000 for a townhouse. Is it a condo? Is it a single family? What is it?

>> Right. It It's like a single family, but they won't own it. It's just then they get to like move when they get a little older into like another dwelling >> because the idea is this is essentially the last place you live.

>> Understood. >> Exactly. >> So it's like a ladder. >> My other Yeah.

There's like a ladder for the entrance fees which I don't understand. And then >> I would get clarity on that. I would say this is it doesn't sound like they're trying to scam you. This is pretty normal in the retirement community um field.

But this is it's kind of like a really high sort of HOA country club fee to buy in. >> Mhm. That's really what's happening here. And it's covering their long-term future operating costs.

And you know, it's very capital intensive to run one of these places.

>> The question for for you is how does this reflect on you if if they change their mind or if they >> are they going to be broke in five or 10 years if they do this? That's the scary part. What happens if um this company like

gets sold and the rules change or it goes bankrupt? >> Oh boy. I mean, I feel like we have to see the >> bylaws or like I feel like I'd want to read that in the contract to find out is there >> Yeah. >> is there any language around that that sort of thing.

So maybe just ask him say, "Hey, you've been talking about this community. Can I go with you to your next meeting with the the rep or what, however they're going and get your eyes on some of the literature so you can read through it instead of going off of because you know how sometimes your mom will explain something and it's like wait what and they leave things out because they understand it but they're leaving big chunks of it out.

>> Yeah. >> And I would also look into alternative options for them.

And so I don't want them to get too stareyed cuz they were sold on the brochure and the landscaping with my tour and the people are so nice.

Yes. And they're charging five times for that >> versus the place down the road. So I would look into other options. I would also research.

Just start researching entrance fee for continuing care retirement communities and you can learn about it online and kind of get your bearings under you before you walk into that meeting so that you're more equipped. Or you could even call the place up and say, uh, you know, keep them anonymous and say, "Hey, my parents are going to be living here.

Just treat me as though I were somebody who was going to move in here." And that way you could understand it.

>> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> And see what the options are for waving it. What happens if they don't pay that?

Is there no way to get in if they don't pay the upfront fee since there's varying levels anyways? Mhm.

>> So, I would just look into all the options and do a whole bunch of homework. Uh, wishing you the best of luck. You're an awesome daughter for doing that. >> Corey is up in Florida. What's going on, Corey?

>> Hey guys. Uh, wow. I'm so excited to talk to both of you. So, thank you for taking my call. >> Yeah, we're happy to talk to you. What's your question today?

>> Um, so I am a 27year-old pilot, not

currently working in aviation. Um my wife and I have $328,000 in debt. Um mostly it's a $246,000

mortgage, $52,000 in student loans uh

from flight school and $23,000 truck loan. Um we make about $110,000 a year

combined, bringing home uh $7,430 a

month. Uh no kids. And um my question is

I I really want to get back into aviation, but as you know, I think

you've heard you guys talk about it maybe once before. Uh aviation is very expensive and it would take a lot for me to get back into it. Maybe just I have a commercial pilot's license, but it's like um I'm not quite uh experienced

enough. I don't have enough hours to really get a job right now.

>> What's it going to cost to to float that gap? I think being realistic, if I paid for all of it be about $15,000, I think that I could really um you know, I could get some time in and you know, pay for some of it just to get back into it. >> So 15 grand gets you to the dream job with making more money.

>> Uh in part, yes.

>> What's your truck worth?

>> Um it's it's going on the market tomorrow, by the way. It's uh it's worth 20 22,000. Um I'm cleaning it up to take

some pictures of it. Honestly, we we just got blessed with um her her parents

wanted to give us uh a car and her sister wanted to give us a car. So, we have two cars coming in um that are reliable, the freedom truck payment, why don't you use that and commit that to savings and save up that 15 grand to get you the education and uh then you'll tackle the student loans. That's all that's left other than the mortgage. So, the the debt's not as much as you think.

You can tackle this pretty fast. get aggressive with it to get to that pilot job and hopefully you can double your household income, man. Cheering you on.

Love that.

[Music]

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[Music]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default and you feel stuck, you're not out of options.

That's why Refi specializes in helping borrowers like you find real solutions with low fixed rate refinancing. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Carl in Georgia. He says, "I'm very disappointed with what you advise regarding combining all funds together when married. What about when you've been married less than 2 years and the couple gets later married later in life?

My wife showed me your video and says she wants her name added to everything I have. Do you think I'm supposed to put her name on everything I had before marriage and then she gets half of that if we divorce? This caused a major problem and she has moved out. No man on

earth would give everything he had before marriage in his wife's name.

Please explain yourself.

>> I love this question so much from Carl.

>> Listen, Carl, I um I'm going to have to take a quick breather cuz Carl Carl is

making me mad. Um >> I just love that Carl in the question blaming us for the dissolution of his

marriage >> is very telling about how Carl acts in his normal everyday life. Carl, I'm going to tell you, um, just because something is your second marriage doesn't mean it should be no have no, you know, it's a marriage is still built on the same things. A good marriage is still built on the same things. It's still trust, right?

There's still those levels that need to be there. So clearly, even in your second marriage, you're like, there's something about this woman that I don't feel like I can trust her because you're not willing to share your finances with her. you're not willing to put your her name on your assets and you're already anticipating a divorce cuz you're saying, "Well, what will happen when we divorce?" And I don't know about you, but I don't feel warm and cushy going into a relationship like that. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some things that we can plan for.

Let's say he had millions and millions of dollars, second marriage, he's got children, and she's got, you know, the person he's marrying has nothing. There are some caveats in there and some nuance that can be discussed, but it kind of just sounds like you guys are just kind of like two two folks, like two regular folks like me or George. And >> it sounds like Carl was already on thin ice and then she saw this video and went, "Hey, here's what these Ramsay people said and that sort of exposed the deeper issues in the marriage and he didn't like that." >> If she said, "Hey, I want to combine everything and that made you mad." You must have gone, you must have given her the smoke for her to just up and move out is what I'm saying.

So, you already were feeling some type of way about this whole idea. So, the problem, my friend, is not with George or I. The problem was you signed up.

>> The problem is the man in the mirror. I know that's right. >> Here's why. If I buy a house the day before I get married and then I go, "Hey, Whitney, not putting your name on this house, but you better pay half the rent, half the mortgage.

Also, you're not getting any equity in this house because I owned it before we were married. >> Oh lord. Oh gosh. That's a recipe for a beatd down.

>> I'll be lucky to sleep on the couch in my own house. >> I know. That's right. >> It's just that that attitude crushes relationships.

>> Yeah. There's zero trust there. And it's it's uh it's kind of like the opposite. You know, here we quote Zig Ziggler, "If you aim at nothing, you hit it every time." It's almost the opposite. If you're aiming at something to dissolve or possibly divorce, it's like then that's likely what's going to happen because you've put that out there and it's almost like you've created a target of when we divorce, when we go our separate ways. And there's no way that you can

avoid that. I mean, I don't know about you, George, when I was married, the advice I got was, you never even need to say the word divorce. Like, you just need to don't even put it in there and just act like every problem is a problem that can be solved. And I mean, we know there's limits here, but do you see what I'm saying?

>> Well, here's the funny thing. If you live your life and live your marriage with the gloves up in front of your face, eventually you're going to be in a boxing match. >> 100. Love that, George.

>> That's how it works. But when you live your life hands wide open, hey, there's no ring here. We're all in this together.

>> Amazing things happen. You build wealth exponentially together.

>> And that's what my wife and I have done from day one. We combin We had one joint checking account, one joint savings account. her name's on everything. And this is harder to do later in life when you've lived independently and you go, "Well, this is my money that I earned and whatever she earns, she can do with that what she wants." >> What happens when she stays at home?

>> Well, then I guess I'll give her an allowance. Okay, so you're going to treat your wife like a child and hope this marriage is successful. Good luck with that, bro. >> Good luck with that.

>> That's what we've seen happen in reality. Uh, so Carl, I'm sorry that I really hate that this is happening. I hope there's hope for this marriage, but do not blame us because the problems were exposed in your marriage. >> Yeah.

He said, "No man on earth would give everything he had before marriage in a wife's name." I don't >> listen, >> I think you've created a category unto yourself, Carl.

>> Carl, whenever I think of the name Carl, I think of On the Walking Dead and the son's name was Carl. Just >> I was thinking Carl Winslow. And that's very telling of our of our uh >> No, Carl W. Carl. Okay. Thank you.

>> Carl Loggerfeld. There's a lot of >> You lost me on that. >> Lot of great Carl. >> Is that a sports reference? >> No. Fashion. >> Oh, okay. Sports and fashion. The two things I I missed out on. >> Carl 0 for three. O for three.

>> All right. Justin is in Huntsville, Alabama. What's going on, Justin?

>> Hey. So, I'm calling in today. I've just got a brief question. I'm about to get married in about a month and a half.

Woo. >> Uh, my fiance is in school full-time and

working full-time. Um, she is carrying

about $20,000 in student debt. She's

going to be a teacher. I'm self-employed

and I am debtree thankfully. Uh, I I

have a little bit of money saved up and I do have some goals and aspirations. We do uh to make some investments to leave

things to our grandchildren. hopefully one day. But >> yeah, >> I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing financially as soon as we get married um for setting ourselves up

to reach those goals and how to take care of this student debt that she has.

>> I love that mentality. How much money do you have right now in savings?

>> About 50,000. >> Woo. >> Good for you. >> And the wedding is paid for.

Uh yes, her parents and my parents both

have have contributed to that.

>> Beautiful. So it sounds like day one

after you come back from the honeymoon, combine the checking account and write a check and pay off the student loans.

>> Okay. >> And then you still have an emergency fund on top of that sitting there, right?

>> Um well, the 50,000 was kind of

>> You have 30. >> 50 minus 20 for her student loans. You still have 30 left over. Absolutely.

>> Is that is that three to six months of your basic budget?

>> Um it it should be I I mean I it takes

about $500 a month um for for me and

then for her we're thinking it'll add another $300 a month.

>> How are y'all living? >> You living like a shoe box.

>> I I my grandparents work really hard and

my dad and I are business partners together. and my grand >> You're telling me your entire expenses to run your life is $500.

>> I I live pretty cheap. Uh I drive an old truck landscaping company.

>> You rent? >> 23. >> Okay. So, you're not pay You're still on your parents' insurance, still on their health insurance, still on their car insurance. What are you paying for? A phone and food.

>> Actually, no. My business my business pays for everything. Uh I've got it set up that way. Um, my dad, my business

covers everything, phone, insurance, all of that. >> But if you run the business, isn't that profits you would have taken home that are going out as expenses?

>> Um, in regards to the business itself,

just can you restate that? I'm sorry.

>> If you're, let's say you're paying $100 for the phone through the business, that's great, but that's a $100 you're not taking home that you're instead putting out there as an expense.

So, I just don't want to pretend like you have no expenses when you really do.

You're just running them through the business as sort of a write-off, I imagine.

>> Exactly. So, >> so it's covering your utilities. It's covering your your, you know, vehicle and your insurance and you're on your parents uh health and medical insurance.

So, yeah, you have low expenses. Just remember, it's not going to stay that way. Yeah, you 30,000 of an emergency fund is perfectly fine for you.

>> Which means as soon as you're married, you're debtree with an emergency fund.

Now we can begin begin investing for retirement, 15% of our household income and saving up a down payment for a house >> as a newlywed couple. You guys are in great shape, Justin. >> I'm cheering for you, man. That's awesome. Way to go.

>> She's lucky to have you. You're lucky to have her. That's the kind of marriage you want where you both feel like you got the longer end of the stick. >> And when he's willing to put her name on on the stuff. >> That's right. He's combining finances day one. Unlike Carl.

[Music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

Give us a call 888255225.

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You're in for a good time. Tony is in Indiana up next. What's going on, Tony?

What hils you?

>> Hi, how are you guys? I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um so this this coming weekend um we've

got my mother-in-law moving in with us.

Um she's >> You sound stoked about it, man.

>> Well, I'm I'm trying to not have it

affect me financially,

uh not have it affect our marriage.

You're like a You sound like a puppy whose tail stopped wagging.

>> Just Oh, my mother.

>> So, why is she moving in? What's going on? >> What's the impetus for this?

>> Uh she's had some substance abuse issues. >> Okay. >> And um we have uh convinced her to sell

her condo. So, she's at the point where she can walk away um pay all her debt

and not owe anybody anything. She'll probably have a few thousand dollars to her name, so she won't be hurt that way.

So, we're trying to help out and do the right thing. And then >> Is she working?

>> No. >> She hasn't worked since October.

>> Did she get help for the substance?

>> Um, that's been a thing, too. It's kind of voluntary. So, um, there hasn't been

any progress there. >> What do you mean voluntary?

Well, I don't think they can make you go into a program. You have to do it on your own. >> But that would I mean, if if someone is moving into my house who has a history of substance abuse, there's no way I'm letting them in the front door unless there's clear progress towards healing, aka she is in a program, she's in AA,

rehab, whatever it may be in her situation. >> Yeah. Do you have kids in the house?

>> We have two kids. Yes.

>> That's a no for me, dog.

>> Yeah. That's a no even for your mother-in-law. I guess that's the biggest thing I'm wrestling with. It's my wife's mother. So, >> yeah. I mean, it's you're creating an unsafe environment at that point.

>> What's the nature of the substance? Is it like alcohol abuse? Is she on like opioids? Like >> drugs? >> No, it's alcohol abuse.

>> Okay. >> I think that you're you This is hard.

Okay. So, I'm I I don't want to say anything. It's I, you know, I'm not trying to be trit here, but um alcohol

that that has an there's an expression of that, right? When she's under the influence of that and she has not said that she wants help with it. So, you have to know that she's going to be in your environment under the influence of alcohol. And I don't know how she how she expresses that.

Is it anger? Is it rage? Is it does she get really quiet? I don't know what that is.

But you now know that your kids are going to experience that as well.

like to get help. I would like to go to rehab. That could paint a different picture. But she has not said that. So part of me wonders if you guys are not letting um consequences associated with her

actions hit her so that she might then say, you know, I do need help. And I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I wish Dr. John was here. Matter of fact, if he's around here, roll him in.

But >> John, come on in. But no, there needs to be a clear >> plan here of saying, "Hey, there's going to be a clear sobriety expectation. Uh we need to have a plan. What happens if there is a relapse?

We need to talk about all of this upfront before any of this happens." >> Yeah, we we've had that discussion about sobriety um and being in the house. I just I'm worried it's going to fail pretty quick. Um well, >> because she's not been she's not shown that she can do that.

>> Um, I want to say yes, but I mean the fact that she's been unemployed for, you know, almost a full year now makes me question otherwise. I mean, a lot of it for me. >> I mean, that would be another expectation. Hey, you're going to be working 40 hours a week if you're going to be living with us while staying completely sober.

>> Yeah. >> Otherwise, what are we doing? And I was completely detached from the situation.

it would be a lot easier for me to make the call of it being a no. But like you said, it's a it's a tough situation and I just I want to not be like I don't

know. >> It's not you being it's you setting the boundaries and if she can't adhere to the boundaries then that's her opting out. >> But why does she have to live with you?

I understood her selling off the house to get out of debt. Why can't she now go to an apartment and you guys say, "Okay, we took the, you know, you had a couple thousand left off of the sale of your house after paying off your debt. That's your, you know, down payment on your on on your apartment, first and last month's rent. And then, mom, it's up to you to keep this thing rolling. You got, you got a fridge full of food, you got this. It's up to you to keep it rolling.

What does her living with you do?

Because you guys are not addiction specialists. So, what does that I'm trying to understand what does her living with you provide for her other than >> a roof over her head? But she can have a roof over her head >> in theory, but she hasn't been able to maintain a job since past October. She's

on the path of homelessness at this point. >> But has she ever gotten that close to where it's like I'm on the street? Do you think that she'll let herself get that that close?

>> I honestly don't know. I guess we haven't we haven't gone that route of just saying good luck.

You may have to you may have to see because if she's given okay your your debt's gone, here's your apartment. This is a a a rent that you can afford if you just go out and grab a job at Walmart.

Everything is here and you've you've gone over the budget. Here's what you need to earn. Here's some of the places that you can apply. It's up to you, mom, to go like, you know, maybe you fund her first month and it's like it's up to you to keep this going versus you just giving her. Does that make sense? And you're also putting your family in a very precarious situation.

>> Yeah. I would not do some kind of handshake >> enabling in a way.

>> Well, I what I would do personally, and this is not to be cruel, but I would have her sign a house rules and sobriety agreement that has very clear stipulations, very clear checkpoints as to what's going to happen and what happens if she doesn't comply.

>> And that's to be that's just to be kind to because you've probably heard this phrase, to be unclear is to be unkind.

to make up rules on the fly and kick her out when she's like, "Whoa, I didn't know." And so, just lay it all out there and say, "If you're going to move in with us, it's going to be you have 30 days to get a full-time job. If you don't, you're going to need to go find your own place.

That's it. And if you don't remain sober for the one, if there's alcohol in this house, you're out. >> If you come home drunk, you're out.

>> Game over." And then it's up to her.

She's a grown woman who makes her own decisions. It's not you being cruel.

It's you saying, "Here are the rules so that we can create a safe environment for our family," which is your priority.

>> Yep. >> And your wife needs to be on board with this, too. It can't be like they're ganging up on you and they don't agree.

You and your wife need to be in total alignment walking into this as a united front.

>> Yep. And I I guess that's my biggest fear. I feel like this is going to go bad in some sort of way. And I just

don't know which way it's going to go bad. And we've had a great marriage so far. And I don't want it to be affected by somebody else's poor decisions.

>> Listen, I'll be honest with you. I I and I I I I think I'm willing to stand on business that I don't think I would bring her in. I think a caveat to me

bringing her in and doing George's deal would be you must go through rehab first.

>> That would be okay. If you mom-in-law, if you do that, you can come stay with us and then when you come stay with us, here are the rules. But I don't think I don't think I could like you said invite that level of chaos like you said because it will affect your marriage. It will affect what your kids see like that is I feel like you got to hit this rehab first and then we can talk about it.

And your spidey sense is tingling. That's all very valid. And if your wife disagrees with this, I think she's kind of a little stareyed by the situation just wanting to help her mom because she's a sweet daughter. But you guys need to be united on this.

There's going to be a lot of discussions, a lot of homework. figuring out, okay, what does this contract say? What must be true for her to live with us? And if she doesn't comply, that's her opting out.

You gave her the choice, but we're not just going to give her cart blanch to do what she wants in our house and bring invite crazy in when we've got young kids. No thank you.

[Music]

[Music]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? I hope so. If you're not sure, take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode. Click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Titus is up next

in Pennsylvania, Pottsville to be exact.

>> Okay, >> it's exciting. Titus, what's going on?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Quick, yes, quick question. So basically

looking for some of financial advice here. Would you take or would you pass?

Um 28 years old, married, two little boys. Um we're farmers here and my dad

is getting older. He's ready to transition the farm. He is offering so it's bank appraised 2.7 million. It cash

flows between 360 and 400,000 a year. Um

he's offering it to us at 1.9 million.

Uh my situation is I own a I own a 50acre farm. Um and I it's it's

appraised at 8005. I owe just under 600

on it. So basically 200 grand in equity.

>> And would would you sell your 50acre farm and buy his? Is that the plan?

>> That's correct. Yep.

>> Okay. And you said it's appraised at 800.

>> That's correct. Yep. >> Okay. Um, >> so you'd walk away from your farm with about 150k, maybe?

>> Uh, probably 200.

>> 200 to put down on a $1.9 million deal.

>> That's correct.

>> But you're saying it's going to increase your income by $400,000 a year or would

that replace your income?

>> That replaces my income. U the other caveat is it's not a it's not completely a full-time job. It's like a 40hour a week job. I could probably pick up another 20 years. >> That's full time to city slickers like me. But I guess to the farmer, you're like, "No, that's part time. I normally do 60 to 80," >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. That's That's where

>> That's interesting. I mean, it sounds like it's a good deal. Uh, is he in good health? Is he just retiring?

>> He's retiring. Yep. He's off to some other enterprises. >> Okay. I'm just trying to figure out there's there's some real estate stuff here that I would want to at least ask a tax pro, maybe even a real estate attorney to figure out, which is step up in basis and if you inherited this instead of purchasing it, but it sounds like he needs the money. >> That's actually we've been working through that. Um, yeah, there is there is some interesting things there that can be done with inheritance. >> Yeah. What did he buy it for?

>> He he so he bought it as a as a bare field for like 200,000 and built every building that's on it. So, it's a it's a poultry raising operation. We raise about 700,000 chickens a year. Um, and

um, it all the money is basically in the facilities there.

>> Wow. Have you run the numbers on taking out a $1.7 million mortgage for this?

>> I have. Um, I'm looking at like 130

clear after running the operation and paying the mortgage.

>> Interesting. And what are you making?

What are you taking home on your current farm?

>> Uh, so I'm working full-time

um away from the farm and I just do the farm on weekends and evenings. I'm making just around 100k.

>> So all this 430k bump,

>> but you but you would be working less, you said.

>> Yes. Um, and I would lose my 100k salary

now and just go to the fourth to to the three to 400k I would make then. Yeah,

>> that would be your gross salary for the year. >> That's correct. Y >> What does your wife think about this?

>> She's good with it. Um we love the farming lifestyle. Uh we like u you know living in the country and raising our people that way. Um yeah, 100% on board.

>> Wow. I mean on paper I I if you've run

the numbers going, "Hey, our income's going to increase this much. We can very comfortably afford the payment on this farm. It's going to consistently yield this." Um, you know, there's definitely more risk with this situation. I mean, you still owe that lender regardless of the harvest. >> You know, you know the farm life bet way better than I do. I'm I'm beyond my skis on this one. >> But I would get the advice of multiple experts in this field, no pun intended.

>> Is it more about half the work? Is that the biggest allure?

>> No. Um, the allure is basically we could own our own operation. I can be at home once this thing is, you know, paid for.

Um, I can be at home full-time with the family. >> But wouldn't you be able to do those things? >> Wouldn't you be able to do those things quicker if you stayed in the farm you had cuz you'd owe less?

>> Well, I'd have to get a job basically.

So, I'm working on this farm full-time and that's where my salary is coming from. And so, if I don't want it, dad's going to sell it. Um, and at that point probably, you know, I don't keep my job there and I'm I'm I'm taking a lunch box somewhere. Do you also lose benefits that would affect your family if you're just farming? >> Um, not necessarily. I mean, yeah. No,

not necessarily. I'm not against >> Okay. Because here's my thing. On paper, you're tripling your payments and tripling your income.

>> So, I just don't want it to be a kind of like a net wash in the end where you're going, "Hey, we're making great money, but man, it's going way back out and there's a lot of upkeep here." >> That's kind of what it sounds like. That's why I can't understand why I don't really see the benefit other than the less hours of work. >> How I how I look how I run the numbers, I could if I pick up a part-time job, I can have it paid for in maybe 15 or 16 years.

have no debt and it should be all just straight income.

>> That's a long-term plan for something that is very physically taxing. You're like, "Well, 16 years from now of me working 80 hours a week, hopefully we can be debtree." >> Can we Can we go back to your current farm for a little bit that that you work on the weekend? You just said you do it on the weekends. Is that what it is?

>> That's correct. Yep. >> What would happen if you poured 40 hours a week into that farm?

>> It's difficult. So, it's it's difficult making a full-time living on a small farm. >> Understood. >> It can be done. It can be done, but you're working 80 to 90 hours a week for probably, you know, in the 100 to 125k

return. >> Okay. So, your acres are limiting your output, obviously. >> Next question. What does dad do if you don't go through with this deal?

>> What's his plan? >> Probably puts it on auction.

>> And takes the 2.7. >> I just don't want you to do it to help out dad. Obviously, he's giving you a deal on this. Would he sell it for 2.7 million if it went to auction?

>> Yes, it would go to that. Wow,

man. These numbers just kind of it you're taken aback by it. And so it would definitely give me pause. I would want to like just cross the tees, dot the eyes, get seven people's eyes on this thing, have everything drawn up, contracts, lawyers, make sure it looks good on paper, run the numbers seven times in the budget before I would make this leap.

>> Okay. >> It's going to add stress. >> Working on I haven't I I feel like I've done that. Um and I just wanted to get your your opinion. What about um then sorry, one more thought. So the living situation >> when you go to your dad's farm, are you is there a residence that you'll get to live in? What how does that play into all this? >> Is it very much inhabitable right now?

Your family would love it or is it going to cost 100 grand to renovate it?

>> No, it's very much inhabitable. Um very nice house. >> Okay.

Yeah. Other than the big red flag to me is the step up in basis inheritance piece. So I would talk to a real estate attorney on that one and uh a tax pro to understand the implications of this deal for both your father and for you.

>> Mhm. >> But man, if you're if you're you know, you've done the math, your sights are set on this thing and you've crunched the numbers, your wife's on board, your family's on board, it's it's undoable in a sense, like if you hate this place and it's a nuisance, could you sell it for 2.7 million a few years from now?

>> I could. Yep. But you wouldn't because it's too sentimental at that point, isn't it? >> It's dad's farm. He wouldn't have wanted this, right?

>> I would forfeit some collateral with the, you know, most my parents relationship there. I think take it over and then I would cash out the 800k >> and then yeah, you make all the profit and dad did. He's going, "Wait, I gave it to you as a So that's the other part of this you need to think through is the whatifs and the feelings and the relationships and what could be damaged >> if things don't work out perfectly on paper." That's a good point, George. >> That's all we've seen so far is on paper, but life, as you know, >> is is much more than that.

So, man, I mean, it's a sweet deal.

discount from dad, which is nice, but it's also still a $1.7 million mortgage,

hoping that we can still create this level of income consistently. And but it sounds like you're willing to do the work, get seven jobs if you have to to keep this dream alive. So, uh, you you have a green light for me, but it's sort of like it's caution.

>> Maybe a flashing flashing yellow flashing yellow for me on this one. But >> man, you know more about this than I do.

So, I'm again, I'm beyond my skis, >> but man, it makes me want to get on a farm, Jade. You think I could survive out there for at least an hour? >> Oh, no. If it was 70° in the shade and I

could only lift like things under 50 lbs, I could I could be out there. >> You could be out there. Okay, I'll take your word for it. I'd wear some skinny jean overalls. Make everyone upset.

[Music]

[Music] From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. This is the show where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships.

Christian is in Denver coming up here.

What's going on, Christian?

>> Hi there. Uh, thank you for taking my call also. Um, >> sure. >> Um, yeah, I'm in a a bit of a pickle situation. Um, I have an older sister

who started a business um, under my name, an LLC, and uh,

>> time.

>> Yes. Is it your business?

>> It's not mine. No. >> Did you know that she was doing this?

>> Yes, I consented. Um because I know she

asked me as as a favor kind of thing.

>> Um >> is this like a co-signer for debt? I don't understand what how this was a favor.

>> Why didn't she put her own name on >> construction company? And it was it was kind of so that she didn't have she's a

bit of a con a con artist. And um she did it so that she didn't have too many businesses under her name.

>> What? And you agreed?

>> Yes. Like an idiot.

>> Well, yeah. I was going to say, what does that say about you to work handinhand with a known con artist?

>> I know. I I didn't think it would have

caused this many issues. Um yeah, she

>> So, what issues are you now? And >> tell us the issues you're facing.

Yeah. So, she um during and then years

later COVID happened and she decided to take a loan out um under this LLC and

and so that she just hasn't been paying it at all and it's just >> to use for personal whatever just blowing money.

>> What was that? >> Was what did she use the debt for?

>> She personal personal uses. She did not use it for the business. So, she has been fraudulently starting LLC's, taking out debt against that to then spend personally.

>> Yes. >> And then you were like, "Sure, I'll help you out, sis. I'll be an accomplice to this crime." >> Yeah. So, >> so how much money? >> Unfortunately, >> how much money how deep how deep is she in this?

>> Yeah, the loans it was two loans. um they were a total of 122,000

and now with interest they're about 135.

>> You do understand that you're the one liable here. You're the one who's going to get sued. You're the one who's going to have your credit totally trashed.

>> I feel like there's a legality there, too, because it's completely >> the debt is in your name, correct?

>> Yes.

>> Oh my goodness. >> And there's no there's no operating business. It's just totally fake.

>> No, there was Yes, there was an operating business and um she ended up losing that business in 2022.

>> Moving it to where?

>> Oh, she just lost it.

>> Oh, lost it. Losing it. I misunderstood you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you mentioned earlier that she has done a lot of this. How many times how many fake businesses or failed

businesses has she run through?

>> Well, uh, under this LLC with my name, she it started off as a as a like a retail shop selling candles and things and then she ended up doing a um a a

barberh shop salon.

>> And then she you said she also had a construction business. And then she Yes, she also ha had a construction business which um I'm not even sure if she had that under her name, but she um >> Do any of these businesses still exist?

They're actually operating day >> pretty nope.

>> Now, can I ask you a question?

What in the world would make you say yes to this? Where where was your mind at?

We've spent enough time talking about her. tell us about you and what would cause you to agree to something so like

clearly bad. >> Yeah, she was just like when when she first convinced me to do the the the business under my name, she she pretty much was just saying like this is going to help your credit out. Um if you need to take a loan out in the future, this would help you out. Um, >> and you believed her like like yes like full um

>> well here's the bottom line. If we're starting today, she you're not going to refinance this in her name. She's not going to do that and she probably can't do that.

>> That's the solution here. She takes over the payments, refinances the LLC and all the debt in her name. >> Mhm. But she won't do that.

>> Have you talked to her about that?

>> I have not. No, >> that would be I would fight to the death to make sure that happens cuz if not, here's the here's the bad news. You're on the hook for 130 grand.

>> Mhm. >> And you have to pay that off.

>> Mhm. And you may as well fight to the death on the thing that D that uh George just told you because your your relationship's ruined anyway if she says. Do you see what I'm saying?

>> The fact that she conned her own sister

>> is disgusting. First of all, it's despicable. So, this relationship didn't exist. It was transactional and she used you.

That should make you angry, >> right? >> What are you doing for work?

>> Um, I'm a server, but I just um I just

stopped working because I'm expecting a baby. So, >> um I'm expecting a baby pretty soon here. So, >> is the father in your life?

>> Where's dad?

Um he's um he has some mental health

issues. So he's unfortunately not he's

not going to support me much I don't think. >> Okay so you're going to be a single mom?

>> Yes. So, we must this is like we must

talk to your sister and and she's got to

you've got to put this in terms that she can understand and say, "Listen, you you

you tricked me and I am now in really

hot water. I cannot pay this loan that is actually your loan. I have another life coming into this world that I have to feed and take care of. You need to come down with me to the bank and you have got to ref we've got to refinance this so that you can take the payment.

Otherwise, you are effective. That means you're effectively trying to ruin my life if you don't do this. And that's what I'd say to her. >> You're going to have to find the last ounce of empathy that exists in her body. >> Mhm. >> If it's in there to convince her to do this, cuz you've got your own crisis going on. >> The last thing you need is this. Do you have any other debt?

>> Uh, yeah. Student loan debt.

>> How much?

>> Uh, right now, I'm not sure, but maybe like 65,000. What's that degree in? Or

what did you start school for?

>> Um, that was a uh communication degree

and um a double degree in uh business uh

Spanish business. >> Okay. >> Uh translating kind of >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> So, what what type of job were you hoping to do with that? And can we still start headed towards that direction?

>> Um I mean like interpreting.

>> Yeah. >> I'm translating. Um, >> have you looked for jobs in that field?

>> I have not. No.

>> How come?

>> I don't know. I just got used to the the serving and making tips and just like I just stayed doing this. Um, >> so what are you doing for income now? You just said you'd stopped.

>> Yeah, right now I'm not doing anything.

I just stopped about a week ago cuz >> How are you paying the bills?

>> Well, I just moved in with my mom. Um,

>> okay. >> And I was able to save. I have some I have some money saved and the worry is that um the government will just like grab it.

>> Well, if you don't pay your student loans, they will >> and the creditors are going to come after it. And so, Christian, I'm heartbroken over your situation. I'm going to gift you a session with a financial coach on us who can walk with you, you know, for much longer than we can on this call to try to unravel the pieces and find some hope in this very desperate situation. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hang on the line.

Chris is going to pick up. We're going to hook you up with a financial coaching session >> and start looking for translator jobs today.

[Music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, doom and gloom, fear-mongering, conflicting data. It's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market and so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month at about 441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit a million for the second month in a row and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers are facing more competition. Average 15-year fixed rate held steady at about 6% last month.

So, if you're debtree, you got a fully funded emergency fund, a solid down payment, now is a great time to buy and even sell your home. So, to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseyssolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Teresa is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. What's going on, Teresa?

>> Hello. Um, just down the road from you.

We're hoping you can settle a marital argument. >> We love Juicy. >> We love doing this.

>> All right. Who's right? Who's wrong?

>> I'm right, of course. >> Perfect. Um, my husband and I are both 57. We are both currently transitioning

our careers, which is a little weird timing, but it's happening. And >> it's about time you had a midlife crisis, Teresa.

>> Yes, I know. I've been in my job for 20 years, so it's a good time to transition. >> Um, we have $2.5 million saved

>> and we're debtree. Um, good cars. We're

all set up for that stuff. Mhm.

>> We have um $290,000

mortgage and my husband um thinks says Dave says

Dave says all day long Dave says pay off the mortgage. My financial advisor says

you're making about 10% on your investments. Your your mortgage interest is 4.25%.

Let's not pay it off and get be making the money on the mortgage money that's in the bank. Can we play a fun game, Teresa? >> Let's do it.

>> Who is incentivized for you to stay investing instead of pull out $290,000

to pay off the mortgage? Who benefits from that the most? >> And I totally understand that. Say it.

>> She does. >> Exactly. Your financial advisor is incentivized to keep you invested.

>> You were going to say that. >> So, just I think it's important to have the full context and also Yes. We always

say, hey, the market will generally do 10 11% over the long haul, >> but we also know the market could be negative 22% next year.

>> And so there's a force savings plan with a known variable when you pay down the mortgage. And we also know, and you know, it's more than just about math.

You'll have emotional peace as you head into what could be retirement in the next 5 years.

That's what he's that's his thing is to not have that hanging on us, especially in this transition time.

>> And we didn't factor in this. You can now invest your mortgage payment when it's paid off. Can't you?

>> Yes. >> Have you calculated those numbers? Have you factored that into the equation?

>> Well, no, because at the moment we're transitioning, so I don't have a real idea what our income is going to be in the next couple years. >> Well, let's say there is none. What if you have a real hard time transitioning?

There's a layoff. Man, having no mortgage would really free you guys up to be flexible, wouldn't it?

>> Yes, but having that extra $300,000 in the bank would give me a little more security. So, see, this is what we do.

>> You have two and a half million to Let's not act like this is your entire nest egg we're asking you to deplete. How much of this is in nonretirement?

>> Oh, he's really smiling now. Can you not do this? I don't think >> Oh, your husband's next to you?

>> No, he's on the other end of the he can hear you. >> Oh, good. Okay. He's loving this whole conversation. I mean, you also have to remember this. If you paid off the mortgage and you hate it, you could always borrow against it again and put it right back. >> You could. It'll be a slightly higher rate, but you could do it. The banks will always lend you more. >> But I bet you won't. Like, I'm willing to make that deal because I know you won't.

>> Okay. Okay. Well, I was just to me the math maths, you know, and uh you know, I was showing him like what 10% looks like compared to 4%. And >> but we're not here's the thing. The truth is we're not making a guaranteed 10% every year.

>> And there's more to the equation than math, which is what George also highlighted. >> And go look at what you're actually paying in interest this month because the mortgage is frontloaded with the interest, >> right? So this month I paid $1,000 in interest and $500 in principal.

>> Exactly. And so you have to look at the actual numbers of what's happening with the interest. It's not a it's not the same as compound growth in the investments. >> That's a good point.

>> As it is paying the interest. So there's the mathematical argument, there's the emotional argument, there's the logical argument, but the truth is you're going to have less risk in your life and more peace if you pay off the mortgage. Could you have potentially made a little bit more if you left it? Maybe.

We don't know.

We just don't know what's going to happen. And so not owing people money is always going to put you in a better position. >> I was going to say that usually when people come when they have times of distress, the number one thing they think about is their home. They want to keep their home and their family safe.

That's it, right? I mean, you've been on

this earth 57 years. So, you know, when the moment comes if somebody loses their job or you're unsure about a paycheck or a health scare, those are the things you think of. You want to keep your family safe. You want to make sure your home is safe. Right.

>> Right. >> So, here you have it. >> And think about this, too. >> Ultimate security. >> When you pay off that mortgage, it lowers your monthly expenses forever, doesn't it? >> Yes. By $1,800, >> which means you need less in retirement than you did previously to cover your expenses. payment.

>> Y'all killing me. >> I hate to use logic. I'm trying to hit you at every angle, Teresa.

>> Here's the thing. I think your financial adviser is a better salesperson than your husband. That's what it comes down to. They're more persuasive.

>> I was looking at the math and the math made sense to me and we've been with her for a long time and her numbers have been pretty, you know, the numbers been solid recently. And >> I'm not saying she's a bad person. And I'm just saying that people tend to follow they they tend to follow the incentive whether they're sometimes realizing it or not.

>> That's all I'm saying. >> Agreed. >> I agree. The bad news is I lost the argument. The good news is I don't have to listen to Dave says. Dave says Dave says >> I love this so much. Hey, call us back when you're completely debtree. Let us know if you like it or not. >> Now you got to listen to George says George says George says yeah. I'm just telling you what I what I have done and what I would do. And so I don't tell people to do things that I wouldn't do.

And I paid off my mortgage at a very young age cuz I even though I could have made, man, you could have made XYZ in the market over those next 30 years if you hung on to a low, I didn't care cuz life happened. And my wife wanted to stay home. And guess what? She could do it cuz we didn't have a mortgage payment. And so you got to think about the reality of life on top of yes, some

of the logic, some of the math, some of the variables there. But it's a fun discussion. We're having fun with you. I'm so proud of you guys. You're multi-millionaires. It's a moot point either way. You're doing great. Laura is up next in Portland. What's happening, Laura? Get right to the question. We're up against the clock.

>> Okay. Should I sell my house or not? We bought it last February 2024. Um, we

owe421,000 on it. Um, I could make about 50,000

according to the realtor if I sold it for $494.95.

Our payment is actually 37%

of our take-home. My husband makes $145,000 a year gross. Um, we after insurance and

401, all that, our take-home is $8,822

a month. We have a total of $17,877

in debt after all of our expenses. We

have for the month about $4,000 left over. I feel that our mortgage payment

is just too out of it's just too much.

It's way over the 25%. Um,

>> but you factored in investing, didn't you? >> So, if you just looked at after tax income but then took out these other deductions, >> you might be okay. >> It'd probably look closer to 30%.

>> Right.

>> Um, yeah. So what I just said exactly

what goes into our account after like >> Yeah. >> So that's after insurance. Okay. So likely insurance is coming out of his check that you >> healthare investing all of that. It feels tight looking at the parameter. So I want to free you from that. Nothing is on fire here. You guys have an incredible income. I would be aggressive at cleaning up this debt and then getting an emergency fund back in place.

But I you're not in a place where I would say you got to go sell the house today. Laura, you're in a real pickle. I

think you're doing better than you think. >> Mhm. >> I have like I put $1,000 on something

and after everything I have like $50 till next payday.

>> That sounds like a budgeting issue. Are you guys budgeting together?

>> We I just got the Every Dollar app and I'm just kind of confused.

>> We'll coach you on that. Jump on there.

You get the premium one. If not, we'll gift it to you. You can jump on a 10-minute one-on-one coaching call with an Every Dollar pro on our team. They'll help you overcome the obstacles you're facing with budgeting.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Let's go outside the studio for a second because we've got some special guests in the lobby on the debtree stage. Kyle and Emily are here to share their story.

What's up, guys? >> Hey, how are you? >> Where are you guys from? >> Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

>> Love it. And you uh traversed the terrain to be here in Nashville, Tennessee for the debtfree scream. How much did you guys pay off? >> We paid off $150,000.

>> Nice. >> How long did that take?

>> 26 months. >> Wow, that's aggressive. Okay. What was the range of income during this time?

>> So, we started at 130,000 and ended at

90,000. >> Okay. Somebody stayed home.

>> I knew it.

>> Baby time. >> Yep. >> I knew baby time.

>> Wow. Oh my gosh. It's baby.

>> Hey, if you're watching on YouTube, uh you need to cuz that's one cute baby.

Cute baby. Wow. >> Okay, that's the best reason to have a dip in income right there. And uh debtree in the process. What kind of debt was this? >> That was our house. >> I knew it. You guys are amazing.

>> Wow. >> You guys, if you're not watching on YouTube, this couple looks like they might be 22 at most.

>> They're so young. 24 and 25

>> with a paid for house. Okay. What caused you guys to be so weird at such a such a young age? Who hurt you?

Who caused this trauma to get you guys debtree in your early 20s?

>> I don't think anybody caused us trauma.

I think we were looking for peace. So,

um, we solved for that by getting rid of all of our bills, simplifying our life, and, uh, ultimately following Christ.

So, we put him first in our life. And >> that's amazing. So, how did you get connected to the Ramsay stuff?

>> Um, well, Kyle actually found it first.

Uh, but he showed me John's show, uh,

the Dr. John DeLooney show and that's kind of how I got segueed into Ramsay.

Um, but Kyle was the one who really found the Ramsay show first. >> Yeah. So, I run a lawn lawn and landscape company. So, when I was outside working, I needed something kind

of positive to listen to. So, I stumbled upon Dave and uh I started following the principles and it it it paid off.

>> That is incredible. Okay. So, you're like you weren't like a financial peace baby. Your parents didn't instill this in you. You have some common sense principles. It sounds like you were not in crippling consumer debt at any point in your life. >> No. >> Did you go to college? >> Yeah. So, I started I went to school for a year and racked up 22 grand in debt

and then decided that wasn't for me. So,

I left, started the company, um finished

at community college, my associates in business management, and then um used

the business to pay off the 22,000 in debt. >> That's incredible. >> Wow. >> So, now you're doing that. You're you're the income provider for the family with this lawn care business. Emily's at home with the baby, right? >> This is a good life with a paid for house. Okay. What's the house worth?

>> It's worth $250,000.

Amazing. >> Wow. And how much do you guys have in the nest egg? You guys been saving?

>> Uh not too too much. Um we're probably

right around >> 30. That's great. Yeah. You've been busy with this house. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you're on the path to become baby steps millionaires. My guess is by 30 you guys are going to be there >> at this rate. because now you got your income freed up. It's your greatest wealth building tool. >> So the the world is your oyster. I'm so proud of you guys. >> So exciting. >> What was the hardest part over that 26 months?

>> Um honestly,

God has just blessed us so much. I feel like when bumps would come into the road, he would just provide. Um whether that was someone just giving us like a random financial gift. Uh I don't know.

I just God just provided so much throughout the journey. Mhm.

>> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So, the most important question then is how are you going to celebrate?

>> Um, well, I actually took my mom to Florida for a weekend, so that was funny. >> Just your mom, not him.

>> Well, with with a baby at home, we

didn't want to leave him overnight. First time.

>> Um, but he's getting ready to take his dad to Florida, too.

>> Yeah. >> So, who were your biggest cheerleaders?

>> Um, maybe your dad was a big cheerleader. Yeah. Um, >> and honestly, you guys, like listening to you guys, we're happy to be cheerleading you guys. That's amazing.

So, how does it feel to be completely debtree, especially at 24, 25, you're

like, this is crazy. >> Yeah, it feels great. It feels great. We have more more freedom to give. Um, we have more freedom to spend on little things. Just when we're out, we can just grab something extra if we want to.

Yeah. >> Um, >> was this a secret? Do your friends know about this? >> Uh, I mean, now they know. They do now.

They do now. Uh, but honestly, we weren't telling a ton of people. Not for any reason. Just >> now they're going to be asking you.

They're, "Can you tell me more about this Ramsey stuff?" Like, >> it's going to be in their algorithm now feeding them videos. >> This is not normal behavior, guys. This is really amazing. >> I love this.

So, what what would you tell that young newlywed couple out there who's gone, "Well, we got to just get a big house. We got to get a car. We just take on the payment. We We can't save.

We got the student loans." How would you encourage them?

even if it's like a $400,000 mortgage or more, just stay within your means, buy what you can afford. You don't need to get the biggest best thing that you can that you can spend money on. Um try not to finance anything. Uh and if you if you get a mortgage, pay it off as quick as you can. >> Wow. >> What was your interest rate?

>> Uh 5.75%.

>> Wow. >> Knock that thing out. >> Sure did. Was it did you get it 26 months ago? Like was it that you just got the mortgage and immediately decided we're paying it off? >> March of 23 we got it and paid it off in >> Holy cow. This >> Wow. >> So the bigger question is how do you get a spouse on board like that from day one? Were you guys aligned on finances before marriage? >> Yep. Y >> I think it was like the second date we were talking about finances and uh kids

and everything. So just right from the get-go we realized that we were aligned.

Um, and honestly, I think that would be the biggest piece of advice is to get on

the same page with your spouse. I couldn't imagine doing it >> without. It's amazing what happens when you're going in the same direction instead of pulling each other in two different directions. I don't want to.

And I had to drag her on board. 26 months, you guys are debtree for the rest of your life. >> Oh my goodness. I'm so proud of you guys. You're an inspiration to us and to many out there in the lobby and many watching and listening at home. So, thank you for making the trip to be here to celebrate with us. >> Thank you. >> You ready to do this thing? I >> think so. >> I think so. >> Okay, we've got Kyle and Emily from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

150,000 paid off. That's the mortgage in

26 short months, making 130 down to 90

so that Emily could stay home with that sweet baby. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 All glory to God, we're debtree.

So sweet. There it is. They're even

aligned in their pitch, the tone, the words. I mean, this is a couple >> everything. Lock step, baby. >> Two peas in a pod.

>> Yeah. >> I love to see this. It's amazing what happens, Jade, when you have that alignment early on in a marriage. And it's why we fight for this when people call in and we say, "Combine your finances, combine your life, combine your goals, and see what happens." >> Shared goals, shared effort, shared intensity, all of it.

>> Exactly. Yes. >> They're still hanging on to the mortgage, hanging on to the loans, not aligned what we're going to do with our money. >> Yeah. >> And look at the options and flexibility they have, too. When they have that margin, she decides, "Hey, I want to stay home." Yeah, absolutely. We can afford that. The math checks out. This is our goal that we're both aligned on.

Go for it. >> Yeah. They're unstoppable. Totally unstoppable, I tell you.

>> Very inspiring. >> It is inspiring. Oh man. Um, >> social question. >> Yeah, let's hit. What do you got for me today? I'm a little nervous. Depending on depending on which platform, I kind of get nervous. >> There's one on here that's specifically for me. >> Okay, let's hear it.

>> I'm deciding if I want to answer it. Okay, Jade, what what change made the biggest impact on crushing your student loans? >> Okay, so how much student loans did you guys have? >> Uh, it was 280,000 of student loans. Um,

and the biggest impact on crushing my student loan debt was the realization that no one else is going to pay it.

Like the realization of going, "Okay, there's no more deferment. There's no more putting it aside. There's no more forbearance. There's no, you know, >> no more $10 words. >> No. Yeah. Nothing. >> The government's not coming for you." Yeah. >> On the white horse. >> Yeah. And so the biggest impact was realizing I get to decide who I want to be in this scenario. I can be a person who is bowed about it or I can be a person who is waiting to be rescued by a hero that doesn't exist. The hero is me.

>> Oh, that's so beautiful. And that's I think the heart behind this. Yes, I'm super happy they paid off their house, but really behind that is they have agency over their life. >> Yeah.

>> They don't owe people money. They feel invincible cuz they know, hey, if we can pay off 150 grand in 26 months, what can't we do financially? >> Oh, so good. They're unstoppable, I tell you.

Yeah. At 23. I mean, this is just what are they going to do the rest of their life? Just sitting around and watch the prices, right?

>> No, it's better. >> So much better than that. Especially with that sweet baby. Congrats, guys.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Proverbs 3:3.

Let love and faithfulness never leave you. Bind them around your neck. Write them on the tablet of your heart. Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. And in a wild

transition, Taylor Swift said, "No matter what happens in life, be good to people. Being good to people is a wonderful legacy to leave behind." >> Oo, I like that. >> I mean, I'll amen that, Taylor.

>> That's like the what is it? Uh, it's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice. >> Oh, I never heard that. >> Have you heard that? >> I like that one. >> That's a good one. All right. I'll credit Jade Waraw with that quote. All right, Anony's up next in Ohio. What's

going on, Anthony? How can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, thanks George and Jade for taking my call. Um, I was calling because, uh, my wife and I are, um, our oldest, uh, son is getting ready to start school and we are back and forth on if we would like to homeschool or send him to public school >> and we get to decide.

>> Just looking for advice. We're we're kind of split down the middle, both of us. Uh just looking for some outside perspective as well. >> Okay.

>> Okay. So p it's not private school so there's not like a price tag attached to it. It's just do we want them going to public school or do we want them to have the >> education? Does homeschool mean one of us has to stay home and forego income that is currently there?

>> Yeah. So so that's kind of one of the things that we're hung up on. So my wife has been a stay at home mom since uh our oldest was born. He's five.

Um we've been living off of my income. Um, I just kind of stumbled upon you guys a few weeks back and I I really want to start to try to get aggressive with paying down debt and I think um, you know, with him going to public school and and we have a daughter as well that'll be starting school um, next year. So, you know, them going to school that'll free up some of her time to, you know, add some additional income and get more aggressive with our debt. >> So, what would be Okay, so we kind of understand why it could be good for public school.

What was the homeschool argument? Was this a values thing or just convenience? >> Yeah, kind of that. Yeah, I mean, so so she's she's more on the homeschool side and I'm, you know, it's kind of like a percentage.

I'm like 6040 public and she's like 6040 home. Uh we've been praying about it, just trying to figure out, you know, which way we should go. But um she's more on along the lines of like she doesn't think our 5-year-old son should be on the same schedule as me going to school for seven hours or eight hours a day. >> Okay, got you.

You know, >> I understand that. >> Yeah. She wants to kind of kind of like let them ease into it, wake up on their own time, you know. Okay.

Not spend eight hours, more like three hours a day doing doing school work. >> Understood. So, go back to the financial side. Tell us more about your financial picture right now.

Do you guys have debt? What do you have saved?

>> Yeah, so we do have debt. Um, not a crazy amount. So, we have outside the mortgage, we have uh about $45,000 in

car loans between two vehicles. Um, and then we have about $5,000 in credit card debt >> and our mortgage is about 160.

>> Okay. So, the cars there's it's it's kind of one of these things where there's a way to solve for the financial side of it. I mean, if you guys really wanted to do the homeschool thing while still accomplishing the financial side, then it comes down to these two cars.

you know, maybe. >> What are you making?

>> Uh, I earn 120 gross a year.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, a lot of it's tied up there. Is there one of those that you could downsize?

>> Uh, yeah, potentially. So, I've been kind of tossing around the idea of selling my truck. Uh, that's the larger of the two. >> What is it? >> Um, it is >> it's a it's a 2020 Chevy Silverado. Uh,

we owe about 30 on it.

>> 30? Yeah. Yeah, I mean there there's a big chunk right there. >> Are you underwater on it? Could you sell it for what it's worth or more?

>> Uh, probably about what it's worth. I I don't think I'm too much underwater on it. I just bought it last September.

>> Do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> Um, not really. We got about $2,000 and

I'm thinking about what I should do with that thousand since I just started listening to you guys to uh get it down to a,000. >> So, if you sell the truck, you still need another vehicle, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I mean, I I

drive an hour one way to work.

>> Um, so we defin I would definitely need a vehicle. And then, you know, for her just doctor's appointments and various different things. And she also does we do earn a little bit of additional income. She has a a photography business that doesn't earn a crazy amount. It's mainly around the holidays. Uh, it's probably about 10,000 a year.

>> What would she do full-time if she did go back to work?

So, that's another great question. Um, I think it would need to be something that's somewhat flexible because I think we would still want her to be off during the summers to be at home with the kids because that's how it's been for the last, like I said, five years.

>> Um, >> so probably something in a restaurant. I mean, she did that when we first got together for a while. Um, you know, just

where she could really focus in on her photography and try to expand that a little bit. Um, we don't really need to invest any money into that to grow it.

So, that's something that we could probably go down as well. >> Here's the thing. I think that you I mean, this is just my my thought when I look at your numbers. I think that you guys should be totally fine on $120,000

a year. Like, that's your salary. The problem is you guys need to live on less than you make. That's that's what it is.

So, although her going back and picking up a job for a while could help you pay off this debt a little faster, I think really what you guys need to do is really lock down the budget to get this thing done because you guys having a

$120,000 shovel to work on this debt is pretty decent if you sell the truck. And I think that will allow you to still clear it in in the time period that we >> you could be debtree by the end of the year. >> Yeah. But you got to sell the truck >> and then get a fully funded emergency fund.

That's going to put you guys in a really solid place for her to stay home, homeschool if that's what she wants to do. And hey, if she doesn't like it, you can always turn back to public school. If they go to public school and they hate it and they're not thriving there, she can always pull them out and home school. So nothing is fatal here.

Yep. Absolutely. Yep. I I keep telling her that I, you know, after listening to you guys for the last few weeks, I I really just want to get all the the stress out of our life and just make peaceful decisions and be able to make this decision no matter, you know, if we were debtree, this decision would probably be a little bit different. I don't know. >> You might not even be talking about it.

It might have just naturally happened that you homeschool them, >> right? Yep. Okay.

>> I love it, man. Yeah. Best of luck on the journey. And cut up those cards. You don't need those things where you make 120 grand. We don't need the points. We don't need the possibility of debt. We need some peace in our life right now so we can create some stability for our family. Appreciate the call. Kelly is up next in St. Louis. What's going on, Kelly? >> Hi. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited.

Okay, so we are in baby step two and I'm

looking forward to baby step three. Um, we only have about $5,000 left in baby step two. So, I'm looking forward.

Can we do like Okay, so it's three to six months and can we do like three or

fourish, park it in a high yield savings and let it do the rest or do I need to like do I need to shoot for six months?

>> That's a good question. I actually really like this question. Um, so there's a couple of things to consider with baby step three. Um, first off,

just always remember that it's your kind of your basic budget. A lot of people think it's like three to six months of income, like their full whatever they make in a month, and it's not that. It's if you were to whittle your budget down to kind of emergency mode, you know, obviously your four walls, daycare, insurance, like it's not your budget with all the bells and whistles built in. So, that's the first thing to think of.

And then second, uh determining between 3 to 6 months, yeah, you want to look at a couple of things. Are you a dual income household? Because if you are, then yeah, there's a little bit less risk there. If one person loses their income, there's still another income coming in.

So you could look at something like that as you're determining, is it 3 months, is it 6 months. Other thing you could determine is your health. Like are you guys in good health? Does anybody have chronic issues that are keeping them in and out of the hospital or could you know take away their income?

So those are the factors to determining if you're going to set it at three and like you said, let the interest maybe do the rest over time. >> It would take years for the interest to do the work cuz I mean, look at this. 15 grand >> in a high yield savings, you're going to make 500 bucks a year. >> Yeah. But I'm just saying at that point >> I'm just saying at that point you would be okay if it were just 3 months, right?

If it two incomes, solid jobs, everybody's healthy, right? Um I'll be honest with you, George, and you throw a flag. I just tend to air on the side of 6 months kind of regardless. I don't know the way the world is. I just like 6 months. I mean, that being said, I wouldn't let it stop you from moving on to baby step four or 3B.

>> Yeah. Is the next step for you trying to save a down payment or invest?

>> Uh, no. The next step is pay off our mortgage. >> Oh, great. >> Right. >> Yes. And we only got to be investing 15% on it. >> So, >> you got to be investing 15% first. Any money beyond that goes to college and paying down the mortgage. So, yeah, if you wanted to get to three or four and then begin the other steps and maybe slowly add to that emergency fund, that would be okay. But again, to Jade's point, man, there's nothing like having a six-month emergency fund ready to battle whatever comes at you.

>> It feels good.

Yeah. [Music]

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## 233. There Are No Shortcuts To Building Wealth | October 21, 2025


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Normal's broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshot. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls from you guys for the next couple hours about your life and your money. You can get involved and we hope that you do. So, in the meantime, we're going to Matt who's in North Carolina.

What's up, Matt?

>> Hey, how are y'all? >> Good. How can we help today?

>> Well, uh, my wife and I have been looking at our numbers, uh, just the debt that we have, and we wanted to see what you guys would recommend. Now, I've got about 60,000 in just various debts

aside from my mortgage, and we just want to figure out how to get rid of those in a systematic way. >> I love that. Uh, do you want to list those 60,000 of debts out for us? Like the type of debt and how much each one is worth? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I can do that. >> Great. >> So, I've got about 900 uh for a cell

phone.

>> Got about 1,900 um for medical bills.

>> Mhm. >> Uh I have a truck that's about 29,000.

>> I've got um our family van that's about 9,600.

>> Mhm. and a credit card that's about 11,000 and then a loan from my family for about

12,000. >> Wow. How old are you guys?

>> I'm 33 and my wife is 30.

>> When did you guys kind of tally everything up, Matt, and just realized, okay, here's here's where we are. Is that was that a recent conversation with you and your wife or is this something that you guys have been you you've known? been wanting to do a budget, but it's been my fault cuz I've been I've haven't I say I've been busy, but I could have made time. But we did yesterday, actually.

>> Oh, yeah. So, was yesterday the first time you saw all these numbers together in one place?

>> Yeah. For a good little while. Yeah.

>> Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Um, so what were you thinking do when you saw it?

What did you think? Did you think it was more than what you would have guessed or was it pretty spot-on?

Yeah, I mean it was around what I was thinking and then I was like what have I done? What am I doing? >> Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing. What caused Do you know what caused this? It's for you. Does this feel like an income thing or does it feel like an overspending thing? Which by the way, I didn't ask what is you guys' income?

>> So, well, I started a new job. Um, I'm an insurance agent now. And I make about a h 100,000 um now. I've gained about 20,000 since last year. I started at 80.

Mhm. >> Um but it was I was just looking at monthly stuff cuz I' I'd wanted to get a newer vehicle cuz my other one was wearing out and it was paid for. I should have kept it. >> Yeah. >> But um it's just we're both we're both spenders and we realized that yesterday and we're like, you know, we're wasting too much money. >> What about your wife? Is she working outside the house?

>> No, she stays at home. We have three children under three.

>> Oh, Lord help you. Okay.

>> Got a house full, Matt. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, so it sounds like typical lifestyle creep. You got a $20,000 raise and you're just like, "Well, I can afford this payment. I can afford this and this is good. We'll just kind of keep going and enjoy that $20,000 of margin." And then it turns out >> $20,000 in debt, more so.

>> Mhm. >> Yep. Yeah. So, I I would suggest I mean, I know you're kind of new to this.

You just laid this out the other day, but I'm going to suggest the debt snowball, which is we what we suggest to everybody, uh, which is you're listing the debt smallest to largest. The method is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you don't get behind because if you get behind then it really gets out of control. So make sure you're ma making min minimum payments on everything but all of your extra margin uh is going to go towards the smallest debt with a vengeance like you're going very very quickly and so as much margin as you can find which leads to my next question.

I'm assuming you don't have any savings lying around anywhere. Is there any extra money that we should know about stocks?

It varies. It's XRP, so it'll be $270 one day and the next day, you know, it'll be up or it'll be lower. And I've got some in Nvidia. It's not much. It's about $210 worth. Um, >> okay. So, just mentioned the mortgage,

too, on the house. So, I was going to say that. Forgot to say that. >> Yeah. Just tell me what the mortgage is, by the way. >> 218. >> 218. And what do you pay every month for that?

>> 1628. Okay.

>> Matt, is your job What do you do for a living?

Uh, I sell um just auto, home, lot,

>> insurance. That's right. That's what you were saying. Okay. Yeah. >> Is there um margin for overtime in that

position? Whether that's getting like more like working more just to get more commissions and more accounts or from like a salary perspective even, what would that look like?

Well, see, since I'm 1099, I I I was given a book of business when I got here, but it's my job to, you know, I can grow it as quick as I can because I mean, I work 247 if need be. So, >> Yep. Yep. Okay. Okay. Cuz the way I'm

looking at this, I mean, it's um added up close to 60,000 >> and you're making a h 100,000 and that's probably before tax >> and health insurance and all of that.

So, um yeah. Are you contributing anything to um retirement at all?

>> No. >> No. Okay, perfect. Yeah. So, what Jade's saying, I mean, that's it. I mean, you know, Matt, the the problem is going to

be you and your wife. I mean, you know what I mean? Because you're going to have to change the way you've been handling and viewing money like a 180.

Like you you said, we're both spenders, which I appreciate the self-awareness. I get it. I'm a spender. Like, I understand. Mh. >> And so you're going to have to do things that you've never done before. You're going to have to say no to yourself in places that you've always just said yes cuz of course we'll just go out to you. Of course we'll just do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Where things didn't seem like a big deal. Everything's a big deal now. It kind of feels like everything's on fire.

Even though you guys are going to be fine. It's not like, okay, we know bankruptcies around the corner. It's not that. But the sense of urgency like what Jade was saying earlier >> is going to be have to be notched up like 10,000 notches for you guys

specifically. You know what I mean? Because we talked to some people and they're >> um they're natural savers. It's okay.

But when you have two spenders, which again is not a bad thing. It's just how you guys are wired. This is going to just take that much more of a discipline. And so yeah, paying it off.

But I'm like, "Yeah, get the cell phone out. Do the get the medical debt. Have some lofty goals that if you >> even if you worked extra at a different job, whatever is more lucrative for you to make extra money. I don't know if that's working more at just like >> the insurance job to get more accounts or more.

>> Yeah. And and if you can up it, Matt, I'm not kidding. You know, I mean, people are driving or doing like Uber Eats and making a thousand easy. So like >> that's your that's your low bar.

>> When you plug these numbers, have you plugged this into an every dollar budget, Matt?

>> No, not yet. Um, got the We had that app, then we stopped using it cuz I slacked off on and that was the problem.

Okay. >> But, um, I I wanted to ask real quick before I forgot. Um, I did have an offer

for a dealership to buy my truck for

about 25 or so and I have 29,000 on it.

Do y'all think it'd be a good idea to just go ahead and sell it? >> Yes. But not >> Okay. >> Do a private sale because if the dealer's giving you 25, then private sale would get 29, I bet.

>> Mhm. >> Mhm. But the key is, now I don't know how long you guys can go with just the van, but the key is you're going to have to stack up some cash, right, to get something in the meantime to get you to and from work. And you don't have to spend a lot on it.

Maybe you spend 6,000 bucks on it, but just know that, yeah, for a while you guys are going to be a onecar family, which that could be a challenge with three under three, but all things are possible. So >> yeah, I mean there's there's families here that the you know I mean honestly the wife drops them off at work and they go you and Sam were a one car family for >> for a decade.

>> it is doable Matt doable. So it's just again it's going to your life is just going to look different for a period of time and then you guys can get back and enjoy the fruits of your labor and be some great responsible spenders and have fun. Like that's not the bad that's not bad or wrong but you just got to do it in the right order and you guys went out of order spending more than you make. So Yeah, homework is Every Dollar.

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in Columbia, South Carolina. Samantha's on the line. What's up, Samantha?

>> Hey, Jade. How are y'all? Thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. How can Rachel and I help?

>> Yeah. So, my husband and I are 11 months into Baby Step 2. We're putting like three or 4 thousand a month toward our debt. >> Way to go. We paid off four. Yeah, we paid off four credit cards and one of four student loans. >> Oh my gosh. Good for you guys.

>> Thank you. So, the last three student loans are kind of our big fish. Um, and

we were on track to get those done. We have about a 100,000 left, so we're on track to get those done in about two years. Um, but my husband is a federal

employee and with the government shutdown, we are experiencing a hold in

his paycheck. So, about half of our

monthly income right now is being held.

>> Dang. How much is that?

>> Uh, 5,400 takehome right now

>> out of out of 11,000 takehome um

>> a month. Yeah. >> So, we're just kind of trying to get by.

But I guess in the future to be prepared for this again, I was wondering if this would be a weird situation where we maybe um go to baby step three and save an emergency fund and then come back and hit those last three student loans hard.

>> Um I don't know if I would do that, but I think I would pause baby step two right now. I probably I would not be I mean you guys don't even have Yeah. You don't have money to put extra, right?

>> Cuz you were putting 4,000 margin.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. Are you guys able to stay current with all the bills, all your bills, like even housing and all of that?

>> Yeah, it's going to be it's going to be tough for the next month. Um, >> but I'm just really thinking in the future if this happens again. That's kind of where I was going with that. Um, so as of now, yes, everything's been halted. We're making minimum payments on everything >> um since middle of October, you know, two weeks ago. Um, yeah, the I guess to be prepared. >> Yeah, I hear you. Um, yeah, I hear you totally. But really, the only time that

we would suggest that is if there's something in the immediate future that you're certain of, like, oh, there's going to be like we we have people call like, okay, they're laying us off in 3 months. We would say like, sure, pause everything. Pile up an emergency fund because it's happening. Or even a health situation, you know, like there's a family member or child that's sick.

We would say, okay, get get some get some funds in place because, you know, that's going to be some ongoing challenges. But I hear and again we're in the middle of a government shutdown. So it's harder for me to say this to you to be like we don't know if it's going to happen again. But it is a question of like I don't know when it is.

If it is who knows and because of that uncertainty you almost would think I would want an emergency fund because of that. But I would actually say because it is uncertain you don't know what's going to happen. So I would rather get this debt cleaned up y >> faster >> because of it. So that that's what I would suggest.

There's more piece there because if you think about it just in terms of the numbers, let's pretend that instead of paying off the $100,000 of debt, you stacked up, I don't know, $20,000, right?

all the payments that you have to pay along with your normal month-to-month budget. So, you're still going to clip through savings a lot faster because you've got this extra debt there.

Whereas, if you said, "I'm going to focus on paying off my debt first," then if it rains and pours and maybe you have a little bit less saved because it's, you know, you haven't had as much time, your lifestyle is still paired way, way way way down, right? So, you're not having to pay debt payments on top of whatever it takes to live. So, I really I get where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, I think there's more peace in having no debt and payments when things like this strike versus having it's almost like insult to injury when you have to use hard saved money to pay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, >> so no, we would still say probably be gazelle intent, Samantha.

>> Yeah. H sorry you're going through that.

Hopefully that gets cleaned up soon. You know, it's I've had so many people message me on Instagram and thankfully more on the positive end of, you know, they're they're probably three years from where Samantha is because they're like, "Oh my gosh, if we didn't have an emergency fund and we weren't used to living on less than we make and the government shutdown happened because they've lost, you know, they're like, "We're good. Like, we we have six months saved, like we we're able to we're able to like even squeeze our lifestyle down and we're okay with that because they've walked through paying off debt, you know?" So there's like the the saving grace of why to do this.

As fast as possible because if and when life happens. Yes. You're set, you know.

>> That's right. And if you know you do have a job that has the propensity for layoffs or things like that, it is good to kind of know. It's like having an emergency plan. Do you know what I mean?

Like if there's a fire, you know where the exits are. It's the same thing if you're in a job where, hey, I kind of know like a layoff could happen from time to time or in the case of a government, a shutdown could happen from time to time. And knowing, okay, when that happens, here's what we do. Here's what our budget looks like.

These are the things we cut out. This is how we live. And we know that that's kind of our our plan. >> But it could go four or five years without it.

Yeah. >> You know what I mean? And you don't need it. >> That's right.

That's right.

Let's hit the phone line again. We've got Sean in Washington DC. Maybe he can tell us something. >> Help us out Sean. >> What's up, Sean?

>> Hi. Good morning. Oh, afternoon ladies.

Thank you for taking my call.

>> You're welcome. I'm sorry I said it was a he. I like Sean as a girl's name, too.

>> Thank you. So, um, just a little background about me. I am in my early 30s. I live just outside of DC, but on the Merlin side. Um, I don't have any kids. I'm single. I just received a really good job offer for my first six six figure job. So, I'll be making $100,000 soon.

>> Congratulations. And >> thank you so much. So, my question is, I do want to buy a a house next year. Um, I just renewed the lease on my current apartment. I'm currently paying $1,300 a month for my apartment. Next year, I do

want to purchase a house, but I have student loan debt. That's about $18,000.

So, my question is, do I just save up for the down payment on the house or just pay off the student loan since I'll finally be making six figures now?

>> Listen, I love that you're making six figures. I think that that is so exciting and I'm happy for you. That's really a milestone. Um, if I were in your shoes today, Sean, my biggest priority would be twofold. Number one, I'd be like, I'm getting these student loans out of my life once and for all.

They've been around long enough. I make, you know, >> 18. You can do this. Yes.

>> I make six figures. I'm going to knock them to the curb as fast as possible.

Then, if you're really considering home ownership, let's talk about this in in real talk with which is what you'll really need. It would be foolish for you, Sean, to just roll out and buy a house with no savings. Can you agree with that? Because once you buy a house, everything's on you. The air is on you, the roof is on you, the yard is on you, something breaks, it's on you, right?

So, the better way to enter that would to make be to make sure you have 3 to six months saved. Could you agree with that?

>> Yes, that's more reasonable. And I have looked into firsttime home buyer programs and one of the stipulations I found was a program that offered to pay off my student loan debt but it would not give me an additional funding for let's just say the down payment.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, a lot of those programs Sean are I mean honestly towards people that are broke. I mean like and trying to get them in a house. And so >> right now I would say for you yeah those probably look appealing because you're like I can get this faster. But I think this one-year timeline that's just self-imposed, right? No one's forcing you to buy a home next year. You just want to, right?

>> Yes, of course. >> Yes, I know. 100%. And I don't want that for you. >> Yes, 100%. And I think the new income has got you excited to be like, "Oh my gosh, I can actually start doing making some big moves." >> But if you start making moves out of order, it causes way more stress down the line. And so, yeah, I'm with I'm with Jade. I would be I'd pay off the 18,000. I'd save up an emergency fund.

And for you, honestly, Sean, it could be three months. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. you have a solid job, you don't have anyone dependent upon your income like kids wise or a spouse or something, you know, like you're in a good spot. Three months would be totally fine with me. And then save at least 5%

for a down payment because what those things are going to force especially down payment forces you out of these programs of what you're talking about.

>> Um because again, they're going to have terrible um they have adjustable rate mortgages. I mean, they have terrible interest rates. Usually they they lock you into something. Um and it and it's not worth it long term. I want you free of everything. any program, any debt, all of it, Sean. Um, so yeah, getting out of debt, an emergency fund first and then and so that may pump the brakes. I mean, maybe nine months, Sean, to Yeah.

>> 12 months maybe for you to to do this.

But >> well, I mean, I I will I will interject this. If you can at 5% down, if you can

get a payment that's 25% or less of your take-home, yes. But if you have to bump up that down payment because you don't want to be more than 25% of your takehome, and that's talking HOAs, taxes, insurance, all of that in that payment. Uh, Sean, can't be more than 25% of your takehome or else you'll be calling us back. >> Yeah, maybe not next year, but maybe three years out.

>> Just do that math. >> The calculators on ramiesolutions.com, Sean, that you can use. Um, how much mortgage can I afford?

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All right, we're continuing to take calls about your life and your money.

Tell us your situation. We've got Lewis in West Palm Beach, Florida doing just that. What's up, Lewis?

>> Hey guys, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking the call. I love you guys and everything that you do. >> Well, thank you so much.

Thanks for calling. So to keep it short, a pest control business, service business. We got through CO really, really well. And you know, got a big head, spread into five different cities, and we spread ourselves way too thin, but didn't realize it at the time.

>> Um, took a while, but we threw away all the money we had, allowed myself to get up to my guild and credit. Uh, any credit that was offered, we took it, trying to get through a cool phase that it wasn't a fade, it was just a bad setup. And ultimately, kind of last February realized, hey, uh, the the game is over, right? So, we sold off, you know, the the businesses that we could to get the investors their money back, and they were made whole.

So, during that time, obviously, like many, we're in a horrible spot, kind of rock bottom, you would say. And I I found Dave Ramsey and all the teachings you guys do and I should have probably sold the house, sold the expensive car, sold everything we own, bought it instead. I I just dialed back any expenses we had, no nights out, no, you know, kind of fun money, none of that.

And I said, "Let's give it two months to rebuild as strong as we can, as hardcore as we can, and see where we land." >> And it wound up working. We we've quadrupled in the last eight months, and now things are finally in a place where we feel better, and we know that we're going to a good place. >> Oh, great. Question. >> What a turnaround.

But my question is I felt super irresponsible for my family, for my childhood. Do we cut these things? Do we need to? And I'd just love to have a little more insight of, you know, how well, how how much should you trust yourself in a turnaround or when you realize you're making stupid decisions?

Go down to the basics. Like should we have cut, should we not? Because it could have very easily been 10 more months of of failing and then we would have done dug a deeper hole and god forbid, you know, we're never there again. But what are your thoughts on that guys?

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Because you didn't cut certain things out of your lifestyle, if the business had not quadrupled, you still probably would be in a bad spot. >> Mhm. >> Yeah.

>> Is what you're thinking. Yeah. Do you know the motivation, Louis, of why you guys wanted to keep the house and the car? >> Um, my wife trusted me with a lot of the decisions, and that may be a good or a bad thing, but I didn't want to, first off, I didn't tell her how bad it really was, and maybe that was a bad idea, but I didn't want her to to face the music the way I was trying to privately.

And I said, "All right, let me see if we can get ourselves past this and and save her that hurt and and that, you know, that cuz she's been through enough." I thought, >> "Was any of that about you saving face

too if she didn't know the extent of it?" >> No, no, no. Not at all. If she knew, she'd still be there. She's amazing. I just didn't want to put her baby through any of that. >> I think the biggest thing here is understanding um wisdom that you've

learned going forward because there's a lot of things that got you into this mess. And I think that a lot of times when we come out on the other side of things, if we haven't really examined what it was that got us there in the first place or all of the things that got us there in the first place, yeah, there's the fear that can I trust my choices? Can I trust trust my judgment going forward? But if you've done the work of examining that and understanding why you did what you did and why you're not ever going to do that again, then you can have a little bit more confidence.

obviously with money. But then there was the secretive nature of keeping certain things from your wife. I think there's just a some behavior that going forward can't be the case. So I know if I were in your shoes, Louis, going forward, I would be completely transparent with your wife about money.

And make sure that you guys are both owning roles within how you're handling money. So it it can't all fall on you. It can't all fall on her, but together you guys are in this and understanding what's our main priority. Why are we building what we're building?

Why are we doing the things we're doing?

That's right. The house and the cars and all those things. >> Uhuh. Yeah.

The two things I would say, Louis, from like beyond just the nuts and bolts of the math side of what got you guys there, which I think you know, um but two things we run into a lot and I and I commend you. First of all, I just I applaud you for even asking the deeper questions because a lot of people will just kind of get through it and not really think through what got me here in the first place and >> what's going on within me because we're the ones handling the money. It's the people, right?

It's not the math and all of that. Like we're the ones making the decisions. And so understanding ourselves is really important. And so, um, I would say isolations and is negative.

No more isolation. It's kind of what Jade just said. And I think you isolated yourself from your wife >> and from the reality of what was going on. And you were just trying to do it yourself, which again, I commend you for doing it.

There's a lot of wives listening right now. They're like, I wish my husband would step up, but it was too extreme that way, you know, like you can't be isolated in it and and for your sake, Lewis, but also for the relational. There's so much to be said when a husband and wife work together as a team with their money that does far and far and above more than just the finances. So there's just something really big relationally that you you miss and you do it to protect her.

I hear you.

even just hurting, but it can it can continue to put a wedge a little bit because you feel like you have to hold a certain level of truth with her to protect her, but yet she's a grown woman, Louis. She's a grown-up. And so she has to be able to handle the reality of her situation, too. and you may feel the brunt of it because she gave you a lot of the responsibility, but she doesn't need to do that either.

She needs to say, "Louis, I'm so sorry that I put all of this on you. I have a functioning brain. I'm an adult and I'm going to have my strengths and weaknesses just like you do, but together as a team, we're going to sit down together as a married couple and lock arms and be a team." >> And then the second thing I would say, Louis, and >> I'm going very stereotypical here, so forgive me if I'm totally off base, but I'm going to put the dudes more in this category that I'm about to talk about.

And then I even see West Palm Beach. I see, you know, I see Florida and I see I know where you're going. >> Yeah.

>> Oh man. Yes. >> And so when you feel like I have to sell a car, a nice car, if >> that lifestyle, hello.

>> And then downgrade a house. Yes.

>> The ego is shot to the extreme. And again, stereotypically, I think guys feel this >> a little bit more. Like I think there's something about saving face like what you're saying. Um, so those are the two things I would watch, Lewis, next time from an internal perspective. Am I isolating myself?

>> And is my ego in charge or am I in charge? >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think?

>> I think you guys are great. Um, >> well, thanks. >> For sure. And I I think there's there's something to to ponder and kind of sit on there on the side of the wife.

I think it was one of those things when rock bottom hit. I said, "Okay, cool. I think I can manage this and I don't need to put her through it." But you're right. maybe it would have been better to go through it together.

So there's there's a lot to chew on there >> and there is something to be said for I mean >> selling a house is a huge deal and if you felt like hey I'm going to ride this out for x amount of months and if I'm not here by you know if I get to that stopping point and it's not any better then I got to let go of the house right >> but if you made it there then it's great you got to keep the house so I don't know what did you do that or >> so I just to give slightly more context again I hate to take up too much time with other colleagues needing help as well.

It was, you know, when I was younger, I moved 30 times. We were super unstable, you know, as a as a family when I was younger. So, I just said, "Hey, it was absolutely no ego." I just didn't want my family to ever have to feel un totally fair. And it wasn't about the car or whatever, like, you know, yeah, I was dumb to buy a car, but, you know, for whatever reasons, it it was just about having stability, especially for a young child, and not having her love this home and make friends and a school and everything and her out and going out somewhere else.

So that was >> Listen, Louis, I think at the end of the day, you went through something and it was a learning experience for you and that is part of most of our stories, you know, >> and I'll say this, Dave says this a lot for himself. Um, because you sound very entrepreneurial. I mean, you're a very smart guy.

>> And dad says that a lot. And I think that could be another thing to think through because you kind of out earned it. You probably worked your tail off to get these businesses >> revenue to be able to cover up some of the mistakes. >> Yes, that's right. >> Um which in one way is fantastic because you know how to work and yes and you can bring in revenue and all of it but you can't out earn it. And so um that's a

little bit of the band-aid over the situation um is that you earn so much that you could get out of it which again one side of the coin that's fantastic but we got to deal we got to deal with the root issues of how we got there in the first place. um from the nuts and bolts and then from just the >> perspective of who we are as people and like checking ourselves because we can hold ourselves back a lot and make really stupid decisions um yeah based on what feels good and what we want in the moment and we all do it.

We've all made those mistakes but kind of tempering that side of it too. >> I agree and I do think that when you've hit a certain layer in your income which it sounds like Lewis has making those sacrifices it does hit different.

know, not hit that point yet. It's almost easier for that person to go, "Okay, yeah, I'm just going to take to the streets and work hard and sell my stuff than the person who's kind of been living that life." Then, yeah, you're right. Your ego does take a hit and that is tough, but it's good for you. It's good good medicine for the soul.

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Get it in the App Store or on Google Play right now. All right. Sebastian's in Richmond, Virginia.

>> Hey, how you doing today? >> Doing good. How can we help?

>> Um, well, I just had a couple questions.

So, a little bit about my situation. I'm actually a recent college graduate. I graduated technically in August and I've just landed my first uh big boy job, as

I would call it. So, I'm going to be making 70 grand.

>> Cool. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Starting very soon here.

>> I am a associate research consultant for a real estate company. >> Oh, good for you. Great.

>> Yeah. So there just a couple questions and um so my plan going forward is they

have a 401k with no match and um so I'm

actually planning not to contribute to that. >> Okay. Okay. >> So my idea is I have a Roth IRA

currently. I have about 4K in it and I'm

thinking about doing about like 580

bucks a month into that so I can max it out, right? And then I want to save the

rest because I want to start right now I have about 20k in savings and completely debtree by the way as well. >> Good. >> And I want to get into house hacking

maybe mid maybe like June July next year

if I can. >> Okay. So let's talk about the investing part first. Um I would rather you invest

based off of a percentage than based off of a limit or a certain amount that you

want to spend. Okay. So, walking the baby steps, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but after you're out of debt, which you are, and after you've saved up 3 to 6 months of expenses, maybe you save up 3 or 4 months, whatever you decide. Have you done that yet?

Just asking. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I have I have like 15K in a Roth IRA, like 2K in a savings account, and then um like 4K in a Roth IRA.

>> So, the the three to six months of expenses is noninvested. It's non-retirement. It's real. It's literally a rainy day fund, Sebastian, for if something were happen, if you lost your job, if you had an emergency, this is liquid money that you can get to.

So, I would suggest that needs to be your first order of business because here's what happens if you don't have it.

>> And you'll get penalized, too, for bringing it out early. >> Exactly. So, you need separate money.

Let's start on that first and just stack that up. You can do that fast with 70,000. It's just you. Then after that, Sebastian, 15% is the number we're looking for. Now, I I'm with you on maxing the Roth first because for you, that's the that's the better advantage since your 401k doesn't have a match.

But depending on what you have after you hit that m after you max out that Roth, if you still have money left to invest, yeah, then go ahead and throw it into the 401k. That's fine. But do it based off of percentage of your gross income, not just >> okay, >> you know. Yeah.

>> The number I gave was just because I think it's what like 7K a year is the max for me at this point. So >> yeah, 7 to eight in the Roth and then for you 15%. Yeah, it will be around 10,000. Yeah, you have to go.

You should be able to max it out with a couple of thousand left. And Jay's just saying put that 2 to 3,000 just in the 401k. Even if you're not getting the match, it's still a great retirement vehicle just to put that 15% and then if you want to do investing beyond that, then we can talk about the house hunting or house hacking thing. But yeah, the the Yeah, maxing out the Roth and then putting a couple of thousand more into the 401k every year is just a great starting baseline for you.

>> Yeah, that's amazing. So, what I'm thinking is because I'm currently living at home. So my idea was, you know,

purchase that first property, you know, as I'm moving out, right? So like when I have obviously the baby steps done and then I'm obviously investing and saving, right? The idea is to just kind of move out into that first house hack opportunity, which I'd hope to acquire sometime, >> which is what what do you when you're saying house hacking, what what what do you mean specifically?

>> Like you're living in one side, the other person's living in the other.

Yeah, I was probably going to do uh probably single family rent by room strategy. So, >> yeah. So, probably just purchasing a single family and then having a couple different tenants living in there with me. >> Here's the thing, though. I'm I I'm going to give you two words of caution.

Number one is let's say you do this, you've got to be able to cover it without them. So, for instance, let's say you you buy the house and the mortgage is a couple thousand, you know, 2500 a month. You've got to be able to cover that on your own to know that, hey, if for some reason these tenants don't pay >> or I can't get tenants. >> Yeah. Or I can't get tenants, it's not going to jack me because I can cover the mortgage. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, I 100% agree. And that's what I was kind of hoping to call about. Like I know kind of, you know, there's a little bit of caution with, you know, the Ramsy steps and whatnot around, you know, >> yeah, >> like leveraging yourself in real estate, but I'm kind of trying to figure out like to me there's no real difference between buying a single family home as a primary residence just for myself and then doing it as a house hack as well.

As long as at my baseline, I can cover that mortgage. >> Great. We're fine with that. >> There's more to it, though.

And that was going to be my second word of wise. Yeah. If you on the financial side, if you're doing what we said, sure. But just remember, this is your first entrance into home ownership and you're doing it with two or three other people strapped to your back.

So for the layman, like for the lay person, the the first time they buy a house is already stressful because they're realizing for the first time it's all on me. Yeah.

going to be counting on you if something happens with the AC, if something happens with the roof, if they get a leak in their bedroom, right? So, there's part of me, Sebastian, I think I I'm not mad at this idea, but there's part of me that wouldn't mind you if you did get the house. You hang out there for a minute before and just like get your bearings about you before you're just up and having all these people.

>> Yeah. Cuz I think it's just Okay. Yeah.

You got to paint reality, which is always hard to do if it's not been a reality. But what Jade's saying is because my my line of thought honestly, Sebastian, is that's great. You're a single guy. if that's what you want to do and you can cover it even if they don't pay and you're like listen I can make so much money off of doing this and I'm going to save here and do whatever whatever that's your prerogative if that's what you want to do but I'm telling you Sebastian when you start making you start going to work all day you're making your income you're coming home you know you're dating someone you're doing this and that you're going to get tire I think tired of the roommate situation if it's just to get extra money now if you're going for a goal to be like hey I really want to make an extra 20 grand this year.

>> and maybe there's like an end point in your mind. I don't know. But just the um the endless idea of it overall, I just

think you're going to look up and probably maybe a year, maybe less, maybe a little more, and be like, I'm a a

grown man. I'm a grown man and I work

and I pay my taxes and I want to come home to a house that I can I get to do what I want. >> It's clean. The kitchen is clean. you don't have to deal with roommates. Do you know what I'm saying? So, like just always remember that. But I think that's the line that I feel safe with you doing it is that you've already said I can cover the mortgage without anybody.

>> I'm going to just do it to make some extra money, maybe to hit a you know, maybe it's a goal or whatnot. So, so we're not against it. We just know >> I don't know. >> Just think we just want to encourage you to think about it from every angle that >> Yeah.

And I I definitely agree because I think I have because the end point for me is you know maybe house hack you know over over the course of five years or so four or five years maybe do it you know two or three times acquire multiple properties that way and then at that point I'll able I'll be able to get you know my own primary residence where whether it's whether I just want to rent somewhere like a condo or do whatever but I haven't thought that far ahead but the idea is of course I don't want to live with random people forever but >> right but even as you expand >> wealth building tool in this aspect it seems kind Like I mean there's there's there's two alternatives.

It's either do this or go out and just afford the mortgage on my own or go and rent and just throw money at the wall. >> The thing is >> so it kind of seems like the optimal idea to me.

>> Yeah. So that's that's that's the thing where I'm thinking of because you have some people who will say like you know just overlever yourself like crazy. Then you have Ramsley's side which is you know pay cash and >> so then you already know you got to pay cash. >> Don't put on the wrist Sebastian you're young.

You are you are you know going to the wall with all these ideas and it's a lot. >> But slow and steady wins the race over time. People that keep wealth they do it slow and steady.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio continuing to take your calls. So call in. The number is8825-5225

and we will do our best to get you on the show. I'm next to Rachel Cruz today.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Let's get into it.

We've got Kim in Memphis, Tennessee right down the road. What's up, Kim?

>> Hi. So glad to be talking to y'all. Um, my husband and I, we have combined finances and Christmas is coming up and

I want to know how to give and receive

gifts from your spouse when you have

combined finances.

>> I love this question. It's such a it's such a marker of someone who's really trying to do this the Ramsay way. This question, I'll tell you what I've done, and I know probably Rachel has her own take on it. Um, I am a lover of gift

cards this time of year. I'll go to like

Costco or wherever I can get like the

the dollar of like Visa gift card that I can then take that money and spend it on whatever I'm trying to get for Sam and then he doesn't see it. He might of course he'll see the gift card purchase.

So, he might get an inkling for what it is based on the amount of the gift card, but he won't know what it is because he won't be able to see that transaction roll in through every dollar. Uh, what is that? What do you do, Rachel? >> Yes.

Um, a couple of things. One, honestly, well, Kim, we're terrible giftgivers to each other, so I'll say that first and foremost. We're not great at it. >> Um, but the times in the past that we have, two things.

Either it's an obvious holiday like an anniversary or a birthday or Christmas. >> And so Winston will be like, "Hey, I'm going to buy your gift. Just don't look at the bank account." And and he'll delete it off of the Every Dollar app, you know what I mean? Like make a mark like I'll just put it back on.

Just don't look at it online.

And I'm like, "That's great. Like I know it's coming. So like that's >> You're not snooping around anyway. >> No. And I don't care. I don't know. I have I have three kids to deal with. I'm like I don't care. That's fine. Thank you. Nobody got time for that. So that or he did buy me a very nice ring um for

our anniversary two years ago. He got me a band and >> Well, you got to have some friends in high places. >> For sure. You can't do that on a gift card. >> But he had a friend. Yeah. But he had a friend that bought it >> and then Winston paid him back.

>> Oh. >> After. I love that. >> But you got to have a friend to be able to do it. And I did concert tickets one time and my mom bought them and I just told her I'll write you a check after >> because Sharon does not Vinmo which makes me laugh. So I still like will write her a check if something happens.

Um so yeah, we'll do we we'll get around that way. Um but you got to have like a good like you know you got to have like a trustworthy source to do that.

>> So I don't know I don't know if that helps but there's ways around it. And I'll tell you this too, Kim, for people listening, we will hear this randomly as an excuse not to bring in um to combine finances. They're like, "Well, we give gifts and we can't cuz we give gifts and all this." And I'm like, "Y'all, it's like three times a year." And you're a really great spouse if you're getting like anniversary, birthday, and Christmas. Like, I don't know. Are y'all giftgivers? >> Sam Warshaw has made me a giftgiver.

>> Okay. See, y'all are great. >> His family is gifty. And yeah, he's gifty. And Sam, >> he has an expectation.

>> He's got an expectation. >> He's like, I want a good gift.

>> And this man has expensive taste. I'm like, man, I got to I got to raise do.

What am I going to do? >> Oh my gosh. Yeah, but we'll we'll pull the parent or the friend card sometimes to to cover something.

>> Yeah, I like it. That's such a good question. That that is the true mark of somebody who's trying to do this. All right. Uh thanks for the call. We've got Kenny in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, Kenny. >> Hello. How y'all doing?

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Awesome. I have a Yeah, I have a question about life insurance. So me and my wife have four children under six and

we do have life insurance for them. It's a lot more than what y'all recommend. We have 150,000 on each of them and pe some

people have told me that's really like you don't need to be spending that much and some people are like well that's totally fine. My thought process on having the 150,000 on each child was

it's a going to be probably the most thing if if I obviously like a child passes um and having to be able to take

significant time off work um and then if we do have any debts at that time to be able to pay that off. I know you guys recommend 20,000 and no more than that.

And I know that because I called Xander Insurance and that they won't even sell anything over 20,000.

Kenny, I got I got I got to break in.

>> Um I think you are I think you either

got a hold of some wrong information or I think you may be a little confused about how we teach insurance. Can I

>> Sure. >> Can I explain it? First off, I I do want to say I love that you're thinking about that and you're thinking about how can I protect myself, my family. The thought process is right. The method for how you did it is a little off, but we can fix it. So the purpose of life insurance is

to help the person who is dependent on

your income. It's a income replacement.

So let's say your family for instance, you've got the four kids under six and you've also got the wife. They're all dependent on your income. So if something were to happen to you, Kenny, the insurance needs to be on you and your wife. So you're the bread winner or

maybe your wife is. But if something happens to you, your kids need to be able to have a source of income that they can say, "Okay, we can pay for dad's funeral." You know, hopefully that never happens. And we can afford to continue the lifestyle we've had because this this nest egg is there. And same thing if your wife were to pass away, she's contributing something, whether it be in the form of taking care of the kids and being a household CEO, that needs to re be replaced with money because if she were to go, yes, you would need child care, you would need help around the house.

So that's the purpose of the insurance.

do it by lump sum. We do it 10 to 12

times your income. So whatever you're making, Kenny, we would say 10 to 12 times that amount. And if your wife is a stay-at-home mom, maybe four, you know, four times your income, something around that that number. Um, and we want term life policies on the two of you.

So, not on the kids. >> We have we have uh we have life insurance ourselves, and that's that's great. Um, and I understand about the replacement of the income. I guess just my thought is like I'm not going to want to have to work for I would I mean I've never had a child pass and god forbid that ever happens but like I I know you all have kids like you wouldn't want to work for a substantial amount of time while you're grieving that.

sum of money for the kids in case you know one of them passes. So we actually have like Dr. John says to to grieve and just miss them and figure that out.

Figure >> out in the baby steps.

>> Yeah. So, we're on uh we're on baby step two, I think. Baby step two. So, we have our emergency fund and we're working on pay off debt right now.

So, my my goal is is um once we pay off all of our debt, then you know, scale back on the life insurance. You know, we don't have a huge emergency fund right now besides our $1,000. But, um you know, once we get that taken care of, then we can kind of back off on the life insurance. So, what do you think about that?

Do you think that would be good or No, >> I don't think Yeah, I don't think it's necessary, Kenny. I mean, I do think it's one of these things as an adult, you get to get off this call and do what you feel comfortable doing, and if that's what you want, that's fine.

they have to probably be cheap policies.

How much are you paying per kid, like per year? How much is going to this?

>> Uh, well, per month, it's about 40 bucks a kid. >> Okay. Because to me, that's I mean, you

know, 100 I mean >> 160 bucks a month. >> Yeah. So, I'm like, if that if you I we don't recommend this. This is not the way we would go about it. We would never tell someone to do this. Uh but if this is where you choose to spend some of your money because it makes you feel better and you want to, that's fine. Um but also, word of caution, there's so many, which I don't think you're in because you're working with Xander, but there's so many um bad philosophies

around kids and life insurance of things of like, oh, you get them wealthy here.

You're doing it for a financial strategy. Not really from what you're saying is if they actually did pass away, you would need that money to, you know, not work. Um, but just be careful that you don't go down this rabbit hole of life insurance cuz there is a like there's it's I'd say it's more crappy things out there about life insurance than good. >> Sure.

>> The good is very slim and and the good is good. Like the good is good, but >> there's weird stuff with life insurance policies that are really expensive for kids and all of it and we just don't play that game. So, I don't think it's necessary. But if you want to spend, you know, 160 bucks a month, you can.

But that's, you know, thousand or so dollars not going to the debt.

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Alrighty. We got Ashton in Austin, Texas. That's a bit of a tongue twister, but it didn't get me. Rachel, what's up, Ashton?

>> Hey, hello. How you doing? Uh, so thank you for taking my call. So, I want to ask you guys a question. Me and my wife are on baby step number two. And so, we we started with $130,000 in debt at the beginning of the year, and we got it down to $23,900 and some more dollar.

>> Good job. >> Yeah. And so, we both uh we've been blessed enough to um work at a company that we get ESP stocks and stuff like that. So, we that really helped us get this push and we thought about $5,000 anywhere from $4,500 to $5,000 a month

uh at at our debt uh every month. So,

what I'm trying what I'm trying to figure out is this though. I'm like, "Okay, we have So, with the ESP stocks, we have about we're going to owe about

14,000 in taxes, right?" Mhm.

>> So, I'm like, "Okay, should we take that money, throw it at the car, and I'll be

I'll have the car if I do that, I'll have the car done cuz that's what the last step is. I'll have the vehicle done by like uh right before well, maybe even

Thanksgiving time. Okay. I'll have the car done and then we can I can we can go

back, you know, start pilot stack stock piling cash and then be ready for when before April 15th comes, >> the 14,000 taxes,000." >> You get what I'm saying? But I'm like or should I leave it or should I should I should I just you know cuz either way it's going to get done cuz like now like I have the tax money but which direction should I go? >> Have you run out the number? You're positive that with just your income alone you'll be able to cash flow the tax bill when it comes?

>> Yeah, cuz we we once again we're blessed enough to be able to live off of one one income. So basically we meant we we live off in we live off of my wife's check and my check is about anywhere from with overtime 20 uh 45 to 4500 to 5,000 a

month. So I'm like you know I'll be ready. You know what I mean? Like I I the taxes are coming from I'm sorry I missed the >> They're cashing out stocks to pay >> and they're single stocks.

>> Yeah, they're single stocks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean we tell anybody to do that. >> I was going to say I would go ahead and do it anyways, Ashton because I wouldn't have single stocks anyways. So, I would probably tell you to do that and move some stuff to mutual funds or index funds anyways, let alone pay off the debt. So, I think it's a good move in general. It does hurt with the tax bill.

Like what you're saying, it's all it's like, >> but in the long run, >> yeah, I'm scared. I'm scared of Sam.

>> I know. I think we all kind of have a little bit of fear. >> Well, if you want to play it out with your accountant first and like just be double sure that you know what the number is going to be. I think regardless of I mean if you're in the ballpark I think you'll be fine with your income and cash flowing that but if you want just that extra knowledge of just tell me you know get get as close as possible to it I would do that.

$23,981.

>> So you've got other money that you're putting with that to finish the car. Is that what you're doing or is there another >> debt? Yeah. So I'm So every check like last I just paid 2,000. I'm paying 2,000 every two weeks. If I get a little more like I say it's about anywhere from 4,000 to 5,000 a month is my a wider

ballpark of what I'm putting on on the debt. >> Regardless, I've been doing that since the beginning of the year. >> Way to go. >> Good. Yeah. Well, I'm with Jade. If you're able to double check that you can tax flow or I'm sorry, cash flow the tax bill in April, I'd go ahead and cash it out. Yep. and then build up invest

I don't know if you guys run the numbers for some reason then you're going to get this car paid off in 5 months anyways so you could pay it off save some cash on the side after that >> and then sell the stock and pay it you know what I mean either way I would be doing both it's just the order you want to make sure that you're good at but >> if you are 100% sure you will have that money saved for the tax bill I would go ahead and yep cash it out and get this car get get it paid off cuz when you don't have that car payment and Ashton y'all did crazy so good >> I know that was fast >> I know that was so amazing what those numbers you just gave us.

So well done to you and your wife. I mean y'all are like textbook exactly what we talk about and so um yeah you guys got a bright future ahead. >> So good. Thank you for the call.

That's so good. All right. Now we've got Austin in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's up Austin?

>> Hey Jade. Hey Rachel.

make about $60,000 a year. Um, I'm about

$35,000 in consumer debt and my payments

are around 800 per month. Um, the

largest debt is what I'm most worried about and that's a $22,000 truck um at

$400 per month and I just got this truck

about five months ago. And

>> yeah, and the KBB value is 18,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Good night. >> You've already lost 4,000, >> man. Wow. >> Yeah. I am not very good when it comes to pieces at all.

>> Well, you're learning. >> You're 25. You're learning. Um Yeah. Our friend, kind of side note, Austin, um our friend bought a new Tesla >> and he bought it with 4,000 miles on it.

So like it was literally a brand new oneowner all of it. Really? 22% he got off of what he bought that 4,000 like with 4,000 miles versus what if he went retail brand new. So like that just shows you guys how quickly cars drop. So you're not just the only one, Austin. We we see it all the time and it's real.

>> Um how their value drops. So you know the truck we would always say if it is half of your annual income, you need to sell it. >> Um so you're not there. um you're you're

close but you're not there um with the 22,000 versus your income. But the question is I mean yeah the depreciation of what you would have to pay in difference and get a and get some money to replace the car. It kind of ends up being a wash. So I probably would just >> keep it and pay it down.

>> Yeah. What what are the other debts?

What's the other 12,000? So, the I have

10 just under 10,000 on a personal loan

>> and that was for another truck actually that it has a lot of motor issues and

that's why I went and bought this newer

truck. >> So, you spent 10k on a truck still didn't get fixed and then you So, you spent $32,000 on cars very quickly. Where's that truck

right now?

>> Um, I still I still have it. Um, I have

a welder actually coming this weekend to help fix the frame. >> Okay. How much can you sell it for once it's all done?

>> Uh, right around $8,500.

>> Okay. Well, that'll help >> Yeah. >> bring down your um your $22,000 car payment. >> Mhm. And what's the other what's the other $2,000 debt? $3,000 debt. Uh that

is what's remaining for my fiance's

lawyer. Um she is is in the process of

going through a large custody dispute

with uh her baby's father, her son's

father. >> Okay. >> And she was having some trouble trying to come up with that. and I that it was

something very big for >> her and very important to myself. So I

told her that I would go ahead and take care of it and we will handle that

handle everything at at the end. And what I did >> you guys get married?

>> Um we haven't set a date. um we're not

So I started listening to you guys about

9 months ago >> and that that is something that has been

heavy on my mind and it's something that I definitely want to get the ball rolling towards.

>> Um we both she I I'm ready to go to the

courthouse. Yeah. And and just get this over with. Um cuz I also just bought a

house about six months ago.

>> Oh my goodness. Um, >> hey, hold up. Hold up. I'm gonna stop you for a minute. >> You've been listening for nine months. >> You've been listening for nine months.

Um, thank you, Rachel, because I was about I think here's what I want you I

don't want you to keep going towards debt. I want you to start practicing patience >> because I see a guy who's like, I need to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this.

And I just think that it's going to start to compound on you. I'm glad that you called now before it's gotten too crazy. But I got I think Austin, you gotta just slow down a little bit.

>> Um I do. The truck is too much. The the

loan for the other thing is too like if it's not on fire, we should certainly don't need to be going into debt for it.

>> Yeah. >> Um so just >> take a little bit of a chill pill. Um I agree with you. If you're going to start paying for things for your fiance, you probably need to get married or you guys need to decide what that line is because I think this could get messy really fast. And it doesn't it sounds like she's got a lot of loose ends to tie up and it might not be time for her to jump >> so quickly in.

>> But also, you can't be saving a ship while yours is sinking. >> And so, you got a lot on your plate, Austin. So, I would I would focus first and foremost on paying off this debt smallest to largest. And so you're going to do, you know, the the fiance's debt, personal loan for the truck, and then the car payment. Get that taken care of.

Get a good emergency fund and start cash flowing your life all together.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. And take care of your dad gum family, man.

term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. >> To just miss you.

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All [Music]

right, guys. Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show. And if you are an avid listener, and even if you're not, make sure you're sharing the show because uh I believe that the content that we're sharing is so very helpful. I mean, after all, it did help Sam and I pay off $460,000 of debt.

And I truly hope and know that it's helpful for you guys, too. And it's something that you can do to just spread the word of the the Ramsay way. That kind of sounds creepy, but it's not.

So, just, you know, hit the little paper airplane if you're on Instagram or, you know, copy the link on YouTube and share

it with some friends. Uh we also have a really cool playlist uh that is easy to share. So, just make sure you're like, subscribing, and sharing. That really helps us out, and it's something that you can do that's free. That doesn't take any time at all. All right, let's get back to the phone lines. Ryan in San Antonio, Texas. What's up, Ryan? How can we help today?

>> Hi. Yes. Uh, good afternoon, everyone.

How are we doing? Everyone good? >> Oh, yeah. We're doing great.

>> Yeah. Awesome. Glad to hear. So, really what I wanted to call and ask for is um how I can just tackle my debt at a fast and efficient rate. want to be debt free.

>> I love that you want to be debtree. How much debt are we looking at?

>> So, my wife and I just got married August 2nd. So, our combined debt is 48,000.

>> Okay, perfect. What did you say right before that, Ryan? You said something about wanting to be debtree. Did you say a musician? What did you say?

>> They just got married. >> No. Yeah, we just got married in August 2nd. Yeah. We just want to be debtree.

>> Yes. Okay. Before that, when Okay. I'm sorry. I thought I heard something else. Okay. Um, that's great. Yeah. So, how

much do you guys make a year together?

Household income >> combined? Yeah, combined before taxes, we're looking at $100,000.

>> Okay, good. And what kind of debt is it?

Is it from the wedding or >> No, the wedding we paid out of pocket, nothing that we owe for that. It's student loans and a car loan along with credit card debt. >> Okay. How much is the car? How much of the 48 is the car?

$26,000. >> Okay. And that's what I have left. >> What's the student loan?

>> Student loan together? 16,000.

>> Okay. In the credit card, >> correct? Yes. >> Okay. Got it. Okay. So, is this did this

come mostly from one side or is this just really both of you together? This is both your debt.

>> Um, the loans under my name, my wife didn't come in. She has no car payment.

And the student loans I owe a little bit more as well. And then the credit cards together for sure. >> Okay. Okay. So, >> all yours, Ryan, bringing all this to your debtree wife. No, I'm just kidding.

>> That is funny. That's wild. Um, so yeah,

I mean, I think that you have the right spirit. This is something that is great to tackle headon um as you guys are

combining your finances. So, yeah, that's the first thing is combining everything together. I don't know if you've done this or not, but you guys together need a joint checking account that both all your money is going into.

Um, so that's there's complete transparency there. Do you guys have that?

>> No. So, we're very new to this whole to the real world. So, >> yes. How how old are you guys?

>> I'm 26, she's 25.

>> Okay. >> And that's what I wanted to call. Yeah.

For any advice.

>> Perfect. Yes. Well, um Jade's right. So,

combining everything that can be combined. So, that's going to be um any savings in in a high yield or a money market. Um if you guys have any of those accounts, put both names on it, checking accounts. Um yeah, the most like efficient way of combining is that joint checking account.

And people get all squirmish about that because they want their own money and all of this. But we've just found >> financially, not only do you get ahead faster when you work together as a team, when you say, "Yes, all this money is coming to our household as a household, as a family. What do we do with this pile of money?" Regardless of who brings in what? >> This is our money to run our household.

How do we most efficiently do that? And then just from a dollars and cents standpoint, just working out of the same account because Ryan, I mean, it's it still kind of amazes me, which I know I'm the weird one probably in the world today, but that people Vinmo or split grocery bills as a married couple and you're just like, "Oh my gosh, y'all like you >> you're both adult." Like, let's just let's just call it what it is. We're a married couple and we're sharing our life together. So, yeah, the joint the the account would be all of that.

>> And then Go ahead, Jade. Well, I was going to say, does your I know you're calling, but your wife is on board with this. She She knows that we're doing this. We're paying it off of aggressively. Does she know this or is this just you talking?

>> So, I'm the more uh financially savvy

one. I'm the one who's trying to find strategy. She's all on board, though.

She's all She's all >> Well, you say the most financially savvy, Ryan, but you are the one bringing in all the debt.

>> Yeah. What's it mean? >> All spade here. Um, no.

>> So, yeah. And then I would sit down for you guys and do a budget. We'll give you as a wedding gift from Jade and I. Yeah.

Um we'll give you every dollar, which is our budgeting app, but it also you plug in all your numbers so you see your numbers as a household. Um which will help you start working your way out of debt, giving you a plan and giving you some guidance that way. And I also throw in my book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, because understanding how you guys function separately, how you grew up, your money personalities, you know, you you I I made fun of you, Ryan. You said you're the savvy one, but you're probably the nerd.

we probably enjoy this stuff. She's probably a little bit more laid-back, which is great. Like, all of that's so normal, but working together >> and seeing each other's strengths is really big. And you'll probably get those conversations doing a budget.

that's a great um I mean, some people have a lot of bad memories around that, you know. I think it's a >> I have an okay one.

>> I think it's a great starting point to be like, "Hey, here's what I think we spend on groceries. What do you think we spend on groceries?" you know, you really start to get a handle on where your income's going. And in that budget, Ryan, is where you guys are going to be listing out your debts as well, and you guys will start working on tackling the smallest debt. So, it's probably one of the credit cards, uh, paying that off, and then you just you pay minimum payments on everything, but you start attacking the smallest one first.

And if you guys together, Ryan, >> can get fully on board. And if you guys go crazy with this, and when I say crazy, and Jade Jade lived this out, so you could probably speak to it, but I mean, it's not Yeah. not not only cutting expenses, but you both getting extra jobs, working nights, working weekends. Like, you just go all in.

You could get this 48 paid off, I think, in 18 18 months. For sure.

guys being newlyweds, you're going to have to basically live like your college students. Like, don't mistake getting married for now we're, you know, about that life. Now is the time for you to be like, "Okay, we're eating peanut butter and jelly because we're newlyweds and everything is fun, right?" Like, make everything fun because you're newlyweds.

And also I would say Ryan, don't mistake, and this is for anybody listening because sometimes a wife or a spouse or a husband can say, "Yeah, sure. Do whatever you want." Right?

Don't mistake that for being on board.

Make sure she's on like wants to be a part of it. Because I think sometimes if you're the nerd, it can be that can be

interpreted as, "Oh, she says I can go do this." >> Yeah. And you may be excited about it and Ryan's like, "Well, I'll do it. I'll do the budget. Don't worry." >> You got to do it together.

So you you you you got to make sure that this is not just hey she said it's fine so you go off to the spreadsheet and you know just dive in there on your own. Make sure that you're both to Rachel's point contributing. She has a you know she has a say in the budget. You might be the one who makes it but she's the one who's commenting on it and you guys are both tracking transactions.

Everything's transparent.

down the line. >> Yeah, for sure. Ryan, can you already tell um if you guys are opposites with money? meaning like are you more of the spender or she's more of the saver or vice versa?

>> I think we're both pretty conservative.

It was just actually writing down the desk. We were just like, "Holy smokes.

Okay, this is why we need um we need some advice on how to do it, but >> I think we're both a little bit on the conservative end. We don't splurge." >> Yeah. As much. >> No, that's great.

Yeah. And I'll say this, Ryan. you know, the faster you guys can get out of this debt, the the brighter your future is because we would tell you like stop investing, stop everything until you get this debt paid off and then you guys build up an emergency fund after that. Um, if you guys want to buy a home or I'm not sure if a home is in the equation, you know, that would be after that.

But, but it is amazing when you look up and run some numbers. If you go to ramseolutions.com and our investment calculator, if you start investing at 30 >> Oh, man. Oh, man.

Like it's insane. And just put in your car payment from age 25 to age 65 and see if you lived with the car payment your whole life instead of investing >> you paid a car company that payment what you're missing out on. So together just like start building this dream of like this is what we want to be. We want to be about this and we we want to be out of debt.

We want to be investing. You know, it that's the fun part of all of it when you're working together, which I think couples miss out on when they keep it so separate. It's like you don't get to dream together and be like, "Here's what we get to do as a couple and as a family." So, um there's a lot of upside, Ryan.

Um because I think you guys are you're on the right track and you guys are you're going to do incredible things. So, congratulations on the marriage.

[Music]

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So you guys, we're always giving you advice on obviously how to manage your money and the components that go along with that. So of course, uh we're always telling you things like you need to get on a budget. A budget is a huge part of managing your personal finance. You need to be paying off debt.

That's a huge part of personal finance. You need to carry the proper insurance, a a very big part of personal finance. Obviously, we care about uh saving for the future. We care about things like generosity.

But another big part of managing your personal finances is what would happen if you were to leave this earth. What happens to your personal finances, your assets, all of those things. And so, of course, that falls under wills and estate planning. And it's kind of one of those topics, Rachel, that's a little bit like I don't know if makes you feel some type of way to talk about it, but we really do need to talk about it.

So, um, we get questions all the time about wills. Can I can I just make my own will? Can I do it online? Do I need to get with a lawyer?

How do I do this?

Yep. And answer the number one questions, uh, actually the top four questions that people tend to ask us. So, the first one, how do I know, Rachel, if I need a trust or if my estate's too complicated for doing the online thing? >> Oh, yeah.

Well, we always say if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, then an online will is just sufficient. That's fine. Anything past a million probably can get complicated with passing down assets and taxes and all of that.

>> I love that. Okay, what about this one?

What do I need to start my will online?

>> Well, making a will online or not, uh, some big decisions you got to think through. So, think through >> who do I want to give all my stuff to?

You know, where does my stuff go? Uh, if you have minor children, um, children that are minors, who's going to be taking care of them? And also who do you want to make decisions for you if you are incapacitated? If you're not if you're not available or yes >> conscious enough right to make these decisions about your finances and then there's even power of attorneys for health decisions.

All of it um is there in the will. >> So important.

Uh number three is an online will legally valid? Yes, it is. But just not

any online will that you find on the internet may not be legally valid in your state. So again, it has to be a state specific will. That's one reason we we recommend uh Mom and Bar legal forms because they do a great job with that. >> Yeah. When Sam and I moved from Florida to Tennessee, we had to change our will because state state law applies. Okay.

And finally, number four. Why would I want an online will versus a traditional one that's made with a lawyer? Why would I even bother with that? >> Um it's more convenient. You're able to kind of do it at your pace. you're able to get to it. Um I'd say it's less expensive as well, takes less time.

Yeah. >> Um so again, it's it's very doable and again our world today, um the way we've made things accessible. So whether it's um you know, even brokerage accounts or index funds, you know, you can do through Vanguard, you know, uh your will you can do online. And so there are times that you can just do these things yourselves.

But when things get more complicated, whether it's investing, >> again, your estate, even like we're talking about making a will, bring in professionals to help you with some of this stuff, especially if you have anything that's a little bit complicated because it's worth getting an expert opinion. >> Yeah, I agree. So, if if if you heard us talk, but you're still not sure, uh why don't you take our Wills quiz to find out kind of where you fall on either side of the fence, and you can do that by going to ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz, and you can find out which approach is right for you.

All right. Thank you, Rachel. Let's go to Gina in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey, Gina.

How can we help today? >> Hey, ladies.

>> Doing great.

>> Awesome.

So, my question today has to do with

investing, but also insurance. Uh my

husband and I have gone through Financial Peace University and we've taught it two times. We're debtree. Uh

we're but we are also saving for a home.

We sold our home uh like eight years ago up north and moved to Florida and we've been saving since then um bought new cars and all that stuff completely debtree cash flowing everything.

>> Good for you guys. >> We are >> awesome. Thank you so much. Um, so we

are at this point maxing out

basically all of our retirement accounts and my husband recently got a new job

and the health insurance has doubled.

Our high yield health insurance has gone from $3,000 a year to $6,000 a year. And

we don't use it ever. So we cash flow

all of our health expenses because we do all alternative health. Mhm.

>> So, we have a chiropractor, massage, acupuncture, >> nutritional therapies, everything.

>> And they don't take insuranceances traditionally. Yeah. >> Correct. Yeah. And I've even tried to like I've taken hours even like, you know, sending in receipts trying to see if I can somehow like build up that.

Nothing has ever been. >> So, did you drop your policy? Is that what you're thinking of doing, letting it lapse?

Well, I just keep going back and forth because technically it's in play like right at this moment. Like we did sign up for it, but now open enrollment is coming around again. And I'm thinking I'm going to lose out on the investment portion of the HSA, which we've been maxing out the last few years, but have never taken any money out of. And so I'm like, >> which you can keep until >> $12,000.

>> is that what you're worried >> are you worried about the premium you just don't want to pay the premium anymore because you don't really use the insurance is that what you're saying >> I'm thinking I can just invest that and continue to cash flow my healthcare and just invest separately. I mean, we're also doing about $1,000 a month in an outside retirement. >> What's your nest egg now? >> What are you guys worth now?

>> It's not huge because it's only been the last few years, maybe like 500,000.

>> I don't know if I would drop that, Gina.

I wouldn't because because the truth is if something if a car I mean, if >> you could get in a car accident tomorrow and need brain surgery >> and it would Yeah. millions of dollars.

You know what I mean? Like, it just I mean, the health care costs are just it it's extreme. And so if you don't have health insurance in place, I mean, it's worth it. It would be worth it. Even if I don't use it yeartoear, >> it's an extra padding if something big happens. Um, a diagnosis. I mean, anything. Yeah. You're going to you're going to want health insurance. I would not I would not risk cash flowing that.

>> You got to remember, >> and that's basically what my husband thinks, too. But I'm like, and I'll tell you, >> you talked to you talked to Sharon Ramsay, Gina, and even my sister, and they are on your train. They are

>> activated charcoal with stomach bugs. I mean, they're into the Yeah. The whole thing, but they all But they all keep health insurance because the truth is like, yes. If something really bad happens to you, one of your children, I'm like, >> you know, >> I I don't know. I don't Yeah, we don't have to get like in a medical debate, but but I think you're going to want surgery or you know what I mean? >> Charcoal can't fix certain things.

>> I'm not against that for sure. I get it.

I just I guess I was just thinking like would the auto insurance just come into play at that point?

umbrella insurance like there's other insuranceances that we have that I thought okay if something like that happens >> tell me tell me the problem you're trying to solve what what I think what >> you hate paying the 6,000 every year is that it >> and you'd rather invest the money >> absolutely >> so what I would do if I were you if I was so hung up on that $500 a month being invested I'd go out and find another $500 a month and invest it I'd earn it if that's what you're trying to do um >> but >> yeah I just see this and insurance too.

I'll say this, Gina, like >> you know, home insurance, ours keeps going up and it's just it's it's it's a little bit of a pain to pay off it.

>> Yeah. But it's for the just in case the worst case scenario. That's what insurance is for. And you know, even life insurance, right?

You have life insurance in case something happens to you for your kids and like >> and you know, god forbid nothing does happen, but it's the just in case. So I so I would keep Yes, I would keep it for the just in case category and you're paying for peace of mind if something really really bad happens that costs >> literally hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars of, you know, whatever may happen. >> Um that you have that in place. So >> that's right.

>> Yeah, that's right. I know. I know, G. I hear you. I hear you. But um but yeah, I don't think I I I would um let that let

that go. >> No. If anything, think of it as um there are certain things in life that feel like a pain in the butt sometimes like uh insurance or when you you know people call in, they're like, I don't want to go to the next tax bracket. And I'm like, guys, at the end of the day, actually, these things are a blessing to be able to afford and to be able to uh

shoulder the weight of that payment. Um and to say something like, "Oh man, if I could have that money, I could invest it." Cuz some people, you know, they they can't even afford the payment. So that's right. Kind of try to keep it in perspective like that.

It's great to be able to transfer that risk. It is a pain in the butt, but at least you can at least you can handle it. It's not causing you to miss out on dinner or anything like that. >> And you guys are killing in other places, too.

So I Yeah, I would I would take the abundance approach like Jade's saying. >> That's right.

[Music]

[Music] All right. Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fairwind's Credit Union studio continuing to take calls about your life and your money. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Rachel Cruz and we're just chopping it up with you guys. So call in 88825-5225 and we'll do our best to get you on the phone line. We've got we've got Jasmine in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Jasmine,

how can we help today?

>> Hey. Um yes, so I'm calling kind of on behalf of my husband. Uh we live about

two hours away from Raleigh in a small town. Um but basically my husband is a

wonderful guitarist and his income has

decreased pretty steadily over the past few years due to not to his part but the

people he plays for. So I was calling to see exactly um how he could increase

that income and and be a better contributor because um I feel like it's

difficult for us because of the the stress of not being able to play as much as he wants to. >> So what level was he playing on? Was he like touring with a major artist or was he explain doing session work? Like explain what that was.

So he's not touring with a major artist,

but um he is touring with a guy based

out of Nashville. So he commutes back

and forth between our little town in North Carolina and Nashville quite or used to a couple of times a month. Um

now it's like once a month in the winter months it's hardly any.

>> At the height of that, what was he earning when he was doing that? like at the height of doing his thing.

>> So at the height he was actually still living in Nashville majority of his time

and also working with another music company as a sound engineer.

>> Okay. >> And so he probably at the height was

doing I don't know maybe 75.

>> And how long ago was that Jasmine?

>> That was three years. Three and a half.

>> Okay. and what's he been making since why did y'all move to Raleigh? Sorry.

Why did you move to Raleigh if he's a musician and he's doing music work in Nashville?

>> So, he moved back home.

>> How long have you guys been married? >> Never wanted to live in Nashville. Um, we will be four years or three years

this coming November. >> Okay. So, we made the choice that it was more important to be home than keep this gig, the sound engineer gig and the playing gig. And now he's in Raleigh and can't find the word. >> Yes, >> he's still playing with the same guy.

It's just that guy doesn't play as oft.

>> Yeah, but he was also supplementing touring and doing sound because we know Nashville. I mean, there's like tons of musicians and they do all kinds of things. >> Um >> Uhhuh. >> to be able to supplement a full >> live there's no >> Yeah.

So that's his choice. But do you do understand it would be like >> you know we have some students from Pennsylvania I think. So, I'm like, it'd be like working at Hershey's and being like, "Oh, I still want to do chocolate, but I'm going to move to Atlanta or something." And you're like, "Well, there's not a lot of," you know what I'm saying? Like, you moved out of the the the work.

What was his plan? >> Yeah. >> The plan was to still work with the

musician and then another guy that um is

has a band here and that he does sound for here. And so he still works with these guys. Um the problem lies that

they aren't Yeah. They're not working as often and not making as much money.

>> So I'm gonna tell you I'm going to tell you as a person who lived in this lifestyle. A it feels like he's got all

of his eggs in one one to two very small

baskets. And that gets tough because he's relying on these people because to

do their job and if they're not doing their job, he can't do his job, right?

So because of that, he's got to have diversify and have his hand in a lot of different things. And that is a full-time job. That alone, he's got to be on this all the time. He should be out marketing, you know, networking every single night. He should be at everybody else's live shows, getting to know people. So if somebody's sick, they're like, "Oh, I know a guy who can sub and he's great on guitar." Like that's has that been his full-time job?

Because if it has been and he's still not getting anything, then he's got to consider where his strength lies. If his greater strength is in sound engineering, maybe he needs to veer more towards that side of things. If it Do you see what I'm saying? Like I think as a musician, as an entertainer, you have to have a lot of tough conversations with yourself and you have to be very realistic on what you need to be doing

next, especially when there's money involved and a family involved. So what

have you observed?

Is he grinding or is he kind of like >> uh >> he has been distracted with a new baby.

So um I we had our baby n almost 10

months ago. So that has definitely taken

um a front seat to his work and and

being that person that is always going and networking and making phone calls and all that you just talked about.

>> Um so that >> but it's been four years. You said four years ago he was making 75,000 and what's he making now?

>> Um this year he last year it was about

45 to 50. This year it's 30.

>> Yeah. that he's he's on the decline. So,

>> you guys you you said that you're calling in for him. Did he ask you to call? Is that what you meant by that? Or you're calling >> No, >> for you. >> No, I'm calling for me.

>> Okay. >> To kind of see how I can help him.

>> And I think you need to sit down and I think you have to frame this not around his talent, not around what he can or can't do. You have to just frame it around the reality and say >> and of your reality too that what I'm feeling. >> Yeah. It's about Yeah.

You're talking about it from your perspective, which is we have a brand new baby. It's been four years and I'm feeling a shift. I'm feeling a decline and I'm very scared because I haven't you you're not talking about it and I don't see what the plan is. I don't know what the plan is, but I know that we need one.

Right. Have you had those types of conversations with him?

babysitter well established because he's kind of being a stay-at-home mom while I was working. Um because my income is

more >> Oh, >> and um >> What's your income? >> Yeah. And so mine is 833.

>> Okay. So I will say I thought you were I I thought his income was the only income. So it's good that you are working. >> Got it. Do you enjoy your work, Jasmine?

Is that what you're wanting to do?

>> Oh, I mean, ideally, if I could be his stay at home mom, that would be amazing, but I can't do that. We can't financially. But I do enjoy what I do.

>> Okay. So, your concern though with him, cuz you know, household, you guys are at over six figures right now, even with him making 30. >> Um, and he's replacing child care, right? I mean, he's not, >> you guys aren't paying for child care while you work. He's the one watching.

he was he doesn't do well um with child care because like he feels like he needs to be the provider and um

>> then he needs to go out and provide >> respectfully >> like you can't have he can't have it both ways.

>> Yeah. And we had discussed like what's the plan and his plan is well once we get you know somebody in I'll be able to focus and and work and bring like get

more gigs and bring up the income. This is what you need to remind him. The baby's 10 months old, but this decline has been happening for 4 years.

>> So that the baby might be a distraction, like a further distraction, but it's not the root of the problem. Um, and I think that's what you need to talk with him about is say, "I get it. We do need child care. I'm not saying we don't, but this precedes that, and that's what I'm worried about." and you sound like a really kind, sweet, you know, a little

bit more softspoken, but I think that you need to lay this out in very clear terms that he's going to understand that

you also have dreams here, which is to stay home. So, your dreams matter and his dreams matter and you've got to come together on a plan and a tipping point.

That's like the no the go no-go on this music deal.

Okay.

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All right. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. So, if your private student loans are in default and if you're feeling stuck, just know you're not out of options, okay? Y Refi specializes in helping borrowers just like you find real solutions with low fixed rate financing. So, go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Ryan in Vermont. He said, "I'm 40 years old and engaged to a lady who is 37.

However, I'm struggling to see how to move forward. I own a house and I've been using cash to upgrade and repair the home. She believes that I should put her name on the house without her putting anything into it. I disagree and

have asked that she at least match some of the equity before her name goes on the house. She makes significantly more than I do, but chooses to own horses.

And we need we need George on this card.

uh her hobby causes her not to be able to cover her own bills because she spends so much on them and their upkeep.

I'm at a loss about how to approach this issue. I have studied the Ramsay principles on how married couples should approach finances, but I can't figure this step out for us.

>> How do couples merge finances when they completely disagree on how their money is being allocated?

>> It's a lot there. >> Ryan, I don't think you're worried about the house. I think you're worried that you're marrying someone that can't do math.

>> There's a lot there, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I'm like, girl, you're 37.

>> Mhm. >> Like, I'm sorry that your Yeah, you're I'm with him on this. Your hobby causes you not to be able to cover your own bills. >> Yeah. That Well, well, I I do Okay, let

let me let me I don't know if it was just the way I heard it, but I also feel like he has a tone.

>> Yeah. With the house. >> Yeah. >> But I think it's deeper. I think it's cuz he's seeing her not being able to function as a human being and then she's like just going to jump in and and he's like, "Are you going to be able to help function as a married couple or am I going to be drowning in irresponsibility

the rest of my life because my fiance

>> isn't even covering herself?" Like I think that I think it's a deeper fear. I think it's coming out as the house, which I don't agree with Ryan. I don't agree with you on that from a principled standpoint. >> I agree.

I I >> But she's 37 and she can't pay her bills because of her >> horses. I didn't know. I don't know. And and I may have misinterpreted this, but I didn't know if he was saying like she can't even cover cover her bills.

Saying like her putting the equity that he wanted is one of the bills that he wants her to cover. Like I I was trying to understand if she really is like not paying her utilities. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. I guess so.

I I I think if she was I think if she was a I think if she was successful, responsible, she's investing, she's doing this and that. She's got her own place. She's going to sell. I mean, >> sure.

Yeah, you're right. I don't think he'd be worried about it. >> No, I don't either. >> I think that you're marrying I'm sorry, a woman that's not like you're she's not responsible.

>> Yeah. >> You're a little uptight, Ryan. So, you probably need to like >> You both need help. >> Have a Yeah.

Have a glass of wine and chill for a second.

think the >> You need marriage counseling. >> Well, you do. And I think and again not from like the X's and O's and the and the math side >> but from a reality of what you're getting of of genuinely money is a stress point for couples >> big time. >> And if you guys do not see things and again you don't have to be the same person. She can still be more of a spender. You're more of a saver.

>> But if you're not aligned on a value system at which you approach money, you're going to have an uphill battle to climb. >> Yeah. 100% harder. 100%. Yes. you're

marrying again. I'm so sorry, but a 37year-old.

>> Yeah. >> I like I just you can't you can't live like that your whole life. And so, >> no, you can't. >> That's um that's what I would worry about. And that her it's it's a it's a

um prioritization of importance in life.

>> Yes. And and yeah, their values are not aligned. >> Would worry me. Yeah. Mhm. >> So, no, Ryan, when you get married, you don't need your new spouse to bring in the equity that you put all that. No, you're all the same. When you get married, you are together. You are one.

You're choosing a life with a partner.

So, get that off. But again, I think he's highlighting that and worried about that because of this other stuff. >> I agree. I agree. That's like his guarantee that he's not going to get burned. >> 100%. 100%. Yeah.

>> Oh, man. Oh, good luck to you.

>> Good luck, Ryan. Again, you got to have these conversations when you're enga like before you're engaged. Like you got to know who they are financially. Yes.

So that >> if you don't get this straightened out, I don't know if I'd I don't know if I could do it. >> I don't know. I could at 30, you know, I don't know if this is her first or second marriage, but at that age, I have a I was just telling Rachel in the break, I couldn't be out in these single waters at 40 because the stuff that I

could not tolerate Yeah. >> is very high. >> It gets higher and higher. I know. >> It gets higher and higher.

>> The standards go up. Oh my gosh. I don't know if I want to deal with that. >> Life's too short at 40 at that point.

>> I know. That's right. >> We got a solid 30 years. We could travel the I don't know. >> It's like I can't say it on the air, but if you've seen Lethal Weapon, Danny Glover's famous line. I'm getting too old for this. >> Yeah. >> You know, anyway, it feels like >> Katon is in Chicago, Illinois online, too. What's up, Katon?

>> Hey, how you guys doing today?

>> We're doing good. How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, I am currently 24 years

old. Um, I don't have any debt. Um, I

don't own a car and recently just found

out for my job that, um, for my new location. I'm going to have to buy a car. And I'm looking for direction on

should I lease a car based on my salary.

Should I buy one? And just exactly how

much should I spend? And I have to make a decision like the next four weeks. So, decided to give you guys a call.

>> Yeah, that's great. Well, you got some time. That's good. How much are you making per year at your job?

>> I'm making 81,000.

Probably like another 5K for bonuses.

>> Okay, great. >> Good job. >> Um, do you have any money saved right now?

>> Yeah, so I have like five grand in my checking and then like another 24,000 in investments that I can sell off at any moment. >> Okay. Single stocks.

Um, it's all just the S&P I put all my money into for investing.

>> Great. So, I would say, you know, the

the rule of thumb here is, of course, you don't want it to the car to be anything with an engine to be any more than half of your take-home pay. And honestly, I mean, you're young, you're starting out. I probably wouldn't even go that high. I would try to keep this frugal. Do you have You said you have no debt, right?

>> No, I don't owe any money.

>> No debt. And uh this 24,000 is that your

only that's your only savings anywhere?

The 24 and the five that that 30,000, right? That's it.

>> Yeah. Then I have like another probably like 30 in retirement, but I don't really >> We don't need to touch that. Okay, great. So, what do you have your eye on?

What are you looking at? I mean, if if you tomorrow were to choose something, what would you spend?

I'm like thinking I think I want to spend like 15 to 20k because if I in my

mind I'm like if I buy >> a cheap car that like is just going to have problems and stuff or you know for like >> 78k then I'm worried that in like another two years I'm going to have to buy a new one. I'm going to spend a ton.

>> I agree with you. You're not in a position where you need to have a beater. You're not in debt. You've got a nice savings here. I'm with you. I think if you spend 15 or 20 on a car, that's not a bad thing. And you pay. >> I literally wrote 15 down. That I think that's great. What uh what's the commute going to be? Are you driving a lot?

>> Um it probably be like I'm in Chicago so the traffic's insane. But >> yeah, >> probably like I think it's 13 miles there, 13 miles home. >> Okay. But just traffic. Okay. I was going to say cuz if you're putting a ton of miles on it, that's something also to consider >> um of not just like wearing down a car, but that's not going to be the case for you. You're not getting brand new, you'll get used. >> Yeah. And leasing, um, it is the most expensive way to finance a vehicle.

Like, from a mathematical standpoint, you'd be better off getting a car payment than leasing because of the baked in interest and all that and all the the fees around it. Um, but we don't want you to get a car payment. We want you to stay debtree and cash flow the car. So, me too.

>> Yeah. So, I would put those options Yeah. off the table. And yeah, and I would just Yeah, I'd buy a 15 20 I think that's exactly right. 15 20,000. I think that's great. um you'll probably have to pay some taxes on when you're pulling money out. So, be thinking about that.

And then my next step, Katon, I think from a financial goal perspective is I would probably just have some cash available, like three months of expenses and just putting that in a high yield savings account. Don't invest it. Just have it over there liquid in case you need it as just kind of a standard emergency fund.

>> That's right. >> And then, um, yeah, have a have a quick savings goal of about 3 months of expenses just to set aside. So, if you run into an issue like this, like anything in life that you just need some cash, that way you're not to pulling out your investments because what you what you're invested in is probably great and the rate of return the past few years has been fantastic. So, I hate to >> pull it out of a great index fund, but you need the car and at least you have the cash.

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In 2026, don't just set your goals, you need to actually learn how to reach them. And the 2026 goal planner is here and it's packed with content from myself, Rachel Cruz, John Deloney, and all of it's there to help you stay on track in all the areas of your life that matter. Talking about your money, your faith, your relationships, all of it's going to help you follow through on your goal. So, you need to know guys, we sell out on the goal planner every single year.

They sell like hot cakes. So, do not wait to purchase one.

ramseyolutions.com/store.

Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can just click that link in the description to get one today. All right, we've got Ann in San Jose, California. Hi, Ann. How you doing?

>> Hi. Great.

>> How can we help today? listening to well I've been listening to Dave Ramsey. I look forward to hearing him every day.

And I just uh would like to have your opinion on how should my younger sister take title to a house that I sent her

the money because she didn't have any money. And um so I sent her 245,000

to purchase the house in South Carolina.

And uh I just want to make sure that if something happens to her, I would get the house. so I can get my money back.

>> Oh, okay. So, you I just want to make sure I got the story straight. You gave the money for the house. She purchased it and the house is for her to live in.

>> Yes. >> And then at what point were you hoping

to get the title back? Is it just if she were to pass away or was there another circumstance that you would want to get that house back?

>> Well, she's looking for a job. She said if she she's looking for a job, she'll start paying me back. Um that I don't

really need the money and I trust her.

So, um if she pays me, fine. The only

thing I worry about is if something happens to her, if she was to, you know, die suddenly or she's 60 years old and

uh I would then like to have the money or the house back without her husband getting it or her son.

>> Oh. Oh.

So, you would want her to will it to you over her immediate? Does she know that?

>> Yes. She said she's willing to do a will, but I was told if she does a will, it's going to be in probate and all that. >> If she does a will, well, it may go through for a little bit, but I mean, yeah, the will, if it's a state specific will, it'll it'll go through any uh legal, but I do want to Does the husband know this and the son?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And they're okay with it because they they get to live there, >> right? >> As long as she's alive. Yeah. And then if she were to pass, they'd have What would you do? Would you kick him out and get the money?

>> Uh Oh, I didn't think about that.

>> I mean, >> probably not.

>> That would be a little heavy-handed, but my I guess what I'm saying is >> you said you don't need the cash. Is that right? >> No. >> Okay. What What are you worth, Ann?

What's your net worth?

Um, five, six million without my two houses.

>> Okay. So, yeah, you're doing well. Um,

why do you want the money back? Like, >> it's a lot of money. >> It is, but also you're setting up a life

for your sister, which includes, you know, her family. Mhm.

>> Um and if she passes away and it says in

the will that it's titled to you, then

um yeah, you got to think through are you giving them and it needs to be all communicated. That needs to be all in the will to be able to say yes within 12 months an Aunt Anne expects us to find a

different place to live >> and you take the house um back. Um which

again, if it's everyone's wishes, that's that's on you guys. Um, but

>> no, I was wondering if we could do like tenants in common.

>> Do what? Say it again. >> Tenants in common.

>> Tenants in common >> where they are the tenant of the home, but you have the title,

>> right? But I don't really I don't want to be responsible for insurance and taxes. She'll take I don't want those in my name. >> Oh boy. That's >> if she if she passes, you don't want those in your name or just today?

>> Uh, just today.

>> Just today. >> I guess I could have think this out a little more. >> It's complex.

>> Uh, I think you have to make a couple of decisions and whatever you decide, you're you're the captain of the ship, right? Because you you paid the money and it sounds like your sister would go

with whatever you said. It sounds like it it's the it's the husband that you need to make sure also understands. I just think the main thing is whatever it is, it needs to be in writing.

>> Yeah. >> Um when if it ends up being the case that she wills it to you, you need to know about that. >> Yeah. Why did you do it in the first place, Ann? Were they in need?

>> Did they need a place? >> Yes. Okay. Yes.

>> Because of her and her husband can't provide um enough income to sustain a

home themselves, >> right? Yeah. because her husband was with the military. He's got PST. He's

not working and the money he gets is they can't live on. >> Okay. Um, is the house in San Jose, too?

>> No, the house in South Carolina, which is not not a community property state.

>> Okay, >> understood. >> Um, I'm trying to think currently. I'm just I'm thinking of the best solution because and I also don't want this whole

idea of o of owing

>> people money especially within family it just kind of changes the dynamic. So, I'm just thinking out loud here, Ann. I wonder if you tell her, "Hey, >> you don't have to pay me back." >> Mhm. >> I mean, you're worth a lot and you gave this as a gift, but maybe you say instead, I need you to be in charge of

>> the bills of the home, the property tax, all of that. That's what she's in charge of because you pay she paid for the home outright. There's no mortgage on it.

Correct. >> No mortgage. She bought it cash with the money I sent. >> Yes, I hear you. >> So, and legally, everybody thinks it's hers. like you're not on the hook for anything right now.

>> Correct. >> So, >> correct. >> Does it hurt you? Like, does it bother you if if it becomes a gift?

>> No, it's just that I kind of my, you know, my poor husband and I worked all our lives and now my husband I just have

helped my family.

>> I gave my mother a house, my brother a house. >> Oh, wow. And handed out the car and Oh my gosh. We got in the wrong family. How do we >> I know. >> And Jade and I are great.

>> We're great people >> and I would will it to you. I'm just kidding. >> So, is it that you're just you just feel like I' I've done too much. Maybe I need to pull back on this. Is that what it is? >> You're having like a like a little regret maybe.

>> Um, not really. The reason I do it is

that she rescued old dogs, rescued

greyhounds and they cost a lot of money for vet bills and and to feed them. So,

I'd always help with that. And um you

know, anybody who rescues animals to me, I we give money to all these rescue

places. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow.

>> And we got to work. Okay. what I want you to work on. So, I need you and your husband to get on the same page.

And if he wants this paid back cuz he feels like it's off, then that's y'all y'all go for it. In the will, it needs to be very clear. Ann gets the house back if she passes. Um, husband and son have to be out within 12 months and they have to find the place to live and we're we're done with it, right?

Everyone needs to be on the same page.

So you and I know and I want you to work on that Ann because solving problems with just money doesn't always work even though it feels like it does >> it still can leave people in a cycle of of irresponsibility and that's not good for them. And so I love your generous heart and your spirit and I think it can be taken um in such a better healthier

way as a recipient if the recipient is actually doing the work to take care of themselves as well. Right? You pair that with generosity and it's a really beautiful pairing if you're able to do it, which you are financially, which is so great. >> Um, yeah, >> but you just need next time you you want to give a house away, just pump the brakes >> and just you and your husband need to get on the same page and just think, okay, what's the situation >> that we want to give to?

And again, I love the generous spirit when you got $6 million net worth. Like to be able to do stuff for people.

But, >> um, >> you also want to give in a way that it's not a burden. >> Yeah. for both, >> you know, >> the pattern of giving houses away.

>> Yeah. Well, it's creating it's a blessing on the front end, but it's creating a burden on the back end and chaos. So, >> thinking through those things is very, very important. And yeah, I'm I'm with you. Borrowing a house is probably not

the way to give. You probably want to

either give it or there's >> some stipulations. >> Yeah, you need the stipulations.

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All

right, our scripture and quote of the day. Job 34:32 says, "Teach me what I

cannot see, and if I've done wrong, I will not do so again." Simon Synynic said, "Appreciate when things go ary. It makes for a better story to share later." I know. That's right.

>> That's funny. >> That is good. That's like, well, I told Rachel my story that went ary was in New York City this weekend, and it's true.

When things go arry, it does a better story. That's right.

>> Anyway, let's go to Louiswis in New York City, New York. There we go. What's going on, Louis?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You're welcome.

What's going on? >> My question is just a little backstory.

I'm 23 and I've been hustling non-stop since June after graduating to pay off my debt. >> Okay. Um, now I'm struggling with

whether hustling so much and not really being home as often if I'm losing time,

quality time with family. Um, while

health isn't good.

>> Oh, whose health is not good? Yours or somebody in your family?

>> Uh, my parents.

>> Okay. >> I'm sorry. Is is um is there something immediate happening or is it just kind of like they're just getting older and their health's declining?

>> Exactly. just just age, getting older, losing that time. >> How old are they?

>> 70. >> Okay. >> Okay. Are they again is there like an

immediate health concern or or are they generally healthy? You just see them getting older?

>> Generally healthy, but we do have like a

time on it. The doctor said like within

eight years, so >> Oh, so there's a diagnosis.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Um um Okay. How much debt do

you have left, Lewis?

>> So, I started with 130,000 and I'm down to 90,000. >> Good for you. Okay. And what do you expect if you were to stay on this pace?

How long it would take you to pay off that 90? >> So, it's nice. I live with my parents right now. I'm a little old to still be there, but I'm able to throw about 7,000 a month at the loans. >> Amazing. >> Be able to have it done >> by the end by next Christmas. Okay.

Okay. So, >> well, let me tell Okay. Yeah. Um

Okay. So, I mean, can can I just from someone that's not emotionally entangled in the family, I just from an outsers's perspective, >> uh June, we got July, August, September, October, we got about four months of hustling.

>> Um you live with your parents. Mhm.

>> Um there's possibly an 8 years

um a diagnosis of something, you know.

Um >> so >> you do have t you do have time. So if you stayed on the track that you're on

for one year, um

I think you I think you'll be okay. I mean, and I think you'll probably pay it off sooner than that. Um but just from like a time perspective, like let me say this loose. you had called and your mom had a diagnosis and she had four months to live, I'd say pause everything.

>> Yes. >> And and do what you got to do with your family like that, you would never regret that. But it doesn't seem necessarily

urgent. And I think if you got out of debt faster, it would free you up not

only to get out on your own, but also to have the ability to actually save and build wealth and do some things in these next seven years to maybe even um be a

blessing to them in some way.

>> Yeah. I'm also thinking about, okay, so you're you're living with them now.

Let's pretend that you weren't living with them and you were just, you know, as a 20, you're 23, right?

>> Yeah. >> As a 23-year-old, you were just in your apartment, right? What is what does quality time look like? Is it we do a family dinner every Sunday?

Is it I I want to challenge that because living with them now, I'm like, you see them every day. You probably see them in the morning and you maybe probably see them when they come home or when you come home. So, I'm I'm wondering what is it that what's the specific thing that you're like, "Man, I'm missing out on that because that might maybe there's a remedy there sooner than later." Um, so if it's like a family dinner thing, maybe instead of family dinner, we do a thing on Saturday. You know what I'm saying?

Is it something that you can shift around to where you still feel like >> I'm doing this special thing with them that I feel like I'm missing out on? Or is it just in general I'm just used to seeing them more throughout the day?

them when it makes sense." Does that make sense? >> Yeah, that does. And that's been like part of the question is I feel like I should be moved out already, >> but they're not rushing me to move out.

And my mom's always saying, "What's the rush for? You have no bills here. We pay for your food and whatnot." But it also I listen to you guys a lot and it could >> dwindle my growth as a man. Sure.

>> And I do wonder are they are they questioning how hard how hard you're working? >> Yes. >> Okay. They're putting some guilt on >> like a dog I leave. >> What does that mean? How many hours a week? >> Um probably over a hundred.

>> Oh wow. So it is about 110 to 120,000.

>> Okay. What are you doing? Is it a bunch of side hustles put together or one main job? >> I have a main job that makes 70k base.

>> Okay. >> And then I do a bunch of side hustles. I do freelance work. I'm a dog sitter. I do Uber. I teach at my alma matter.

>> Golly, well done.

>> Yeah. And I wonder is some of this

feeling like I need to pull back because of my parents' health and and spending quality time with them. That's coming from them more so than you.

Yeah. >> So there is a there is an interesting

season of life that

um I think happens naturally if you and

again not that this is right or wrong loose. I'm not saying this at all but if you like get you know you're out of college and you get married there's a natural break that happens.

or you get a job in a different city and your first job is like there's some

natural breaks that happen and when those don't naturally happen um which again is not a bad thing. It's not that you staying, you know, near your parents or still working and you like none of that is wrong, but it there's there's a harder dynamic to happen for a natural break to happen because it kind of naturally sets back into the norm of what you were like at 15 15year-old Lewis versus 23-year-old Lewis. And there's a difference there. And um

>> yeah, 15-year-old Lewis is at dinner every night. You you know, there's an expectation. >> Yeah. And I think too for some parents, and I don't want to put this on yours, but there's a there's a codependence there of that that you're around and you're there and they need you and all of this and >> No, there is.

I'm still vacuuming the house. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Um, not outside of work.

>> Okay. I just wonder if there's like someone that knows you well um to help kind of guide this because I feel like this next season for you is really important to gain that independence and there's going to probably be some harder uncomfortable sad conversations with your parents and listen I have a son and I joke all the time that Charles can live with me forever because I just it's so >> but but when rubber meets the road I'm like no I want him to >> go out and become his own person. So, I'm like, there is a natural uh bent towards a mom and her son.

But the fact that they're putting a lot of weight on you, Lewis, in this and and

that makes me sad because you're going to have to untangle that yourself. Um,

and there's going to have to, yeah, be some harder conversations of some boundaries of what's good for you and not what's good for us as a family unit at this point in life, right? I just think that there's a >> Yeah, the unit h the unit changes over time. It morphs and it changes and none of it's all for good because you're you

have to be able to go out in life and do what they've done which is they started a family and they they built on what they had and you need to be able to go out and do that too. And I I honestly would probably challenge you to do that sooner. Like you don't need to have paid off this 90,000 in debt before you go

live on your own. Um, I I would say to

rent, like you can't go buy something because you're in debt, but you can go rent an apartment and have a roommate and kind of get that taste of independence. And I think at the core of this, this is no longer a money question. I think it was more about you feeling good about going out and being Lewis. And, you know, yeah, our parents

age and they get older and the time shrinks and we figure out what that looks like in our in our life as adults with other things that we're balancing.

Um, and that's kind of that's kind of

like the facts of life. It's just kind of the way it happens. And >> yeah, you're not a bad son, Lewis. And on fire, but I I would start I'm with Jade. I would I would start kind of pushing some some um changes for you,

right? And this is all for you and you're not doing anything wrong. So, hear me say that. Everything that you laid out, I'm like, nothing here is is wrong. >> That's right. Well, that does it for this hour of the show. Thanks for hanging out with us. And remember, there's only ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 234. There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

I'm George Kamel joined by best-selling author Dr. John Delony and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. [music]

Jeff is going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Jeff?

How you doing? What What can we help you with today?

What's happening? Well, my wife over the last 8 to 10 years has

taken on a a series of I don't guess the

term is predatory loans.

Uh now totaling right around $300,000.

All without my knowledge, of course.

Goodness gracious.

Yes. >> What kind of When you say predatory loans, what what type of loans are these exactly?

You broke up on us, Jeff.

I'm sorry. It's uh it's the ones where they send you a check in the mail.

And they say cash this. And you fill out some paperwork online.

And they deposit the money straight into your account.

Okay. So, I'm trying to figure out the actual Was this one company that she just kept falling for this over and over? No, it was multiple.

Wow. And so, they basically say cash this check, aka it's a loan as soon as you cash it. Correct. It says you're pre-qualified for X number of dollars.

>> What did she use the money for?

She blew it. There's There's nothing to show >> a decade you had no inkling that this was happening. That is correct. That's the most shocking part of all of this.

It is.

Wow. What did she say she spent it on?

When she said she blew it, was there an addiction involved here?

No. No, just just blew it. Amazon, uh who knows? I mean >> And you never thought, "Hey, where's she getting all this stuff?" Because I know it's coming out of our account. I'm guessing there is no our account. Is it your money and her money?

Well, it is, yes. And it's always been that way?

No, uh it wasn't when we were first married. Uh we separated for a few months.

Oh, back in the 2010 time frame.

And of course, I obviously separated our finances.

And then when we reconciled, we never

we just never really got around to it.

And everything was fine uh until she retired She retired this past January. [clears throat] And everything was fine until she retired, obviously took a pay cut.

And didn't have the money. Feels like a bad time to retire when you're $300,000 in debt.

That is correct. >> guys have other debts?

No, well, our house. Okay. And what's your household income?

Uh about 125.

And that's just you?

No, no. That's in That's her retirement and and me. Okay.

Woo. And you're willing to go, "Hey, this is this is us." She made the mess, but it's our mess to clean up.

I don't know that I have a choice at this point.

I mean, you've always got a choice.

Yeah, but that's not a choice I'm

All right, there we go. That's what I was hoping I was hoping for some ownership there. Not some victim, but some owner. And I love that.

>> No. I love that you said >> I'm I'm Yeah, I'm I'm I'm definitely taking taking part of the you know, responsibility.

But no, I can't I would never leave her over something like that.

>> So, is she committed to not doing this playing this game anymore?

She is. And we're in the process of

recombining finances that way I can

if something like that were to happen again, I would know about it.

I I'm going to pass this to George to let him walk you through the just the process, but um if I were you, I don't I don't know the the help I get from leading with these were predatory loans. They were. They are.

But I think it helps it it kind of takes the edge off my wife did a thing repeatedly and hid it from me for a decade. We need to deal with that part of this.

And then together, we're going to heal both the trust in our marriage and be like you said, we're going to do some things very tangibly. We're going to combine income. We're going to be very diligent on a budget. We're going to tackle this debt together. She retired, she's going to have to go back and get a job cuz y'all are 300 plus in the hole now, plus all the interest that's racked up on this madness. Like we're going to tackle this problem together.

Um but I I would I would Yes, there's bad people out in the world. Yes, they took advantage, but also this is something This is a daily practice that happened over a daily deception that happened over a decade. Blaming it in any shape, form, or fashion on the lenders right now is just a distraction from the problem that y'all two have together.

You get what I'm saying? Yeah. I agree 100%. I just uh I just didn't know a a better term >> No, I mean, you're right.

It's I I hate it. I wish it was outlawed. It's miserable. >> practice.

But when you get bit by the snake once and you go back for eight more bites, at some point you got to go, "I guess I was I was a part of Yeah. And then you hide the bites from the person that you're supposed to be doing life like side by side with, right? So, that that to me is the bigger issue than these Yeah.

>> How much does she have in retirement?

Uh well, she draws Social Security and she's got a a pension that I don't know exactly what's in her pension. Uh between the between the two, she brings in roughly 70 between 70 and 75,000 a year.

Okay. And how much of that you guys actually need to cover your bills?

Do you guys have any margin right now?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um

Our We've got a house payment. That's it. I mean, we >> What's the house payment? How much? 27.

And then what's your total take-home pay for the month between the two of you?

About it's roughly $4,500.

Okay. That doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room after insurance, taxes, utilities,

food.

It It does not. >> But here here's the the napkin math. If you can put 50 grand a year towards these loans, they're done in 6 years.

Correct. And so, I don't know that you can scrape together. That's We're talking over 4 grand a month needs to be going towards these loans. Otherwise, the interest alone is going to keep ballooning the balance to where you'll never make progress.

So, you've got to get angry at these things. Right. But what I've actually done is I've contacted each lender individually.

And negotiated with them. And hopefully,

I'm going to be down in the 150 to 170 neighborhood is what I've

been able to negotiate so far.

>> Are they requiring lump sums for each of those? And that's the hitch. Is it I

would have to pay a lump sum.

>> Do you have any money you could use?

I don't have that kind of money. Well, I do. I mean, I I do have that in my retirement fund. And how old are you?

>> I'm 57. Okay. So, we're not going to touch those.

This might be Hey, in 3 years when I have access to retirement, if you have the funds, then we write the checks.

I was considering taking a second mortgage on my house paying it all in.

>> No. Jeff, then you're just adding to the mess. Now you're really putting your house on the block. Going in further into debt is not the solution to get out of debt. So, I would not do that. I would go for that settlement that you've been already going [music] after. And then do everything you can. She's going to have to work for the foreseeable future.

You're going to have to work for the foreseeable [music] future to clean this mess up. Wish you the best.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Andy is in New York City up next. Andy, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey guys. Hey, how can we help?

All right, I've been uh trying to talk to my wife about some stuff about trying to help out around the house, uh getting a job, uh but it seems like every time I bring something up uh and how I need her to contribute to the family, she tells me that I'm starting when I'm honestly not.

Um She tells me uh uh what uh I should be doing and uh

then she just turns around and just runs away from uh Uh we've been married from uh for about 4 years uh almost 5.

Uh she came from an abusive childhood. I bring home 35 a year, but after child support, it's about 27.

Uh I have uh 420 and $20 car payment.

Um I it's just been me and uh

I'm really struggling. I didn't know if you guys could help out.

Yeah, I I mean, it sounds like you're asking two different questions. One is a question about your money. Like, I'm what you bring home, the payments you have built into your life, that's that's a scary way to live. And you live in a very expensive part of the country, right? Like, that's a lot.

And doing this alone, and it sounds like you're telling your wife, "Hey, here's what I want. Here's what we need." And she's like, "Yeah, I don't care." That's got to be super frustrating and lonely and maddening and all those things all in one, right? But it sounds like you got two different challenges here. Um where would you like us to focus?

Um on us. Yeah.

So, when you say she doesn't help out around the house, she's not working, how does she spend her day currently?

Uh sitting, playing games, um How old is

she? She's 32. Do you guys have any children together?

No. Okay. So, it's not like she's staying at home with the kids. She's You say she's literally just playing video games all day. You go to work, you come home, you're doing all the house chores, the cooking, the cleaning.

Yeah, she cooks for the most part, but I have to do all the cleaning and everything else pretty much. And you feel like she's not pulling her weight in this marriage. Has it ever been different or has this been the case since day one?

Uh no, it was different uh back when we first started. Um What shifted? Gone downhill.

Did something happen in her life? Is she I mean, I'm guessing there's some anxiety, depression behind all of this.

Yeah, I I have no I have you dug into that directly. Have you Have you approached it from a place of empathy, of "Hey, what's going on? I

feel like you've been real down lately and just kind of vegging out, playing games, and there's this disconnection.

And, you know, what tell me about that versus "I need you to help out around the house and go get a job." You know, it sounds like you're her parent instead of a spouse.

No, I I've I've tried it and it it's

just "Oh, you're starting. You're starting. You're starting." when I'm just trying to have an honest general con- conversation about helping out. Um sought out help professionally?

Yeah, she sees a counselor uh once a week. Would she be willing to invite you or would she be willing to have you come with her?

Uh that could be an option. And here here's the way I would approach that. Um

this is you submitting. This is you taking a knee. And there's going to be people in the internet sphere that think this is bad and this is weak. It's not.

It's loving. It's connecting to someone who's clearly hurting.

Um and who's not experiencing the world in a real way, right? Because you have a big math problem, you have a marriage problem, you have a life, joy, [snorts]

and passion problem. You've got all the problems, right? So, so she's clearly not experiencing the world as it is. But she is experiencing the world as she feels it to be, right?

If you approached her and said, "I don't feel like I'm doing a good job connecting with you and loving you in a way that you can feel it. I'd love to come to one of your counseling sessions so your counselor could give me some insights on how I could be a better support system for you." And that might be an invitation um that she would extend to you that you could come to her session and from there maybe get some context on what she's telling this counselor, what the counselor is telling her, what kind of world you're inhabiting.

Cuz here's the here's the deal.

And what I mean by that is, are you going to leave?

Cuz if the answer is no, if the answer is till death do us part, I said I'll be here, then your energy is spent complaining,

your energy spent yelling, your energy spent fighting is wasted energy. I'm not going to leave. So, all of my energy is going to be towards finding some avenue, some shape, form, or fashion, some way that I can connect or deal with the reality that I've got a partner who's just going to scroll her life away. And we have a math problem and I'm going to have to go get a different job or two jobs or three jobs.

But you just continually fighting without an anchor point is it's just it it's not getting y'all anywhere, right? In fact, it's making everything worse.

Yep. And now you're in a place where you can't even say hi, I love you cuz then she goes, "Well, you're starting up again." and then it's over.

Yep. If she was to call into the show, what would she tell us about you?

How she experiences you?

How much I care about her and how much I try and do everything for her.

She She She'll say that, too, but like she'll just have her moments where she where I just try and have a general um honest conversation.

Yeah, it sounds like she's struggling with something bigger than just connectivity issues. And so, yeah, if if if there's a possibility that she would allow you to join her in a counseling session I think or two or three, I think that would be really beneficial for everybody. Um >> Okay. Let's talk about your money for a second, George. Yeah, how much debt do you currently have? What's the total balance of your consumer debt?

Um my consumer debt uh back in 2000 uh

21, we filed for bankruptcy because I had to. Um Why did you have to?

I was knee-deep in the swamp.

Uh I couldn't keep up with any payments.

Uh I had a broken scaphoid at the time.

Uh everybody was going to take me to court. Um So, did they wipe it clean or did you get put on a payment plan?

Nope, they wiped it clean.

Um And where are you today?

Uh now today uh I had a car that broke down.

Uh So, you had to get a payment.

So, I went and got a car payment. Yep.

Even though I told my wife that I didn't want to. Um So, she forced you. None of this has happened on your own volition is what I'm hearing. Everybody forced you into every decision you made that puts you in this terrible place.

Nope. Nope. I I went out Nope, I went

out and I got the car payment even though I didn't want to. That's what I was telling my wife. Um

So, we went out and got the car payment.

And then uh she also goes to school uh for nursing. You left that part out. I thought she was at home all day playing video games.

No, she is for the most part.

Okay. >> Except when she's going to become a medical professional?

What was that? Except when she's going to university to become a medical professional? Yeah, even our classes are at home some days.

But yes. Okay. So, what is the total balance today?

Uh today it's uh about 90,000. Goodness gracious.

Yep. And you make 30 grand a year?

Yep, and I make 30 grand a year.

Why do you make 30 grand a year?

Uh because I can't find a better job

that fits my schedule that I need.

What's the schedule that you need? What does that mean? Uh so, I have a daughter uh who lives about an hour and a half away from me that I have to go see uh every Tuesdays.

Uh that I pick up about uh 5:00.

And then >> think we need to readjust the schedule to go, "Hey, this Based on my work schedule, I can't make this happen.

You're not going to be able to afford child support at this point. [music] So, you need to make some serious changes, Andy. I mean, all the way around. And yes, there's other people involved, but all I've heard so far is I had to, I have to, I had no choice, she made me. I think we just need to control what we can control, and that's the guy in the mirror, and then we can work on the stuff around it. Wish you the best.

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>> [music] >> Alicia's in Chicago up next. Alicia, what's going on?

Hi. So, I uh So, basically, long story

short, um I had a manic episode and put myself into a little bit of debt, and I want to know where to start with the baby steps to get myself out of the situation I put myself into. Oh, very cool. So, uh when you say a manic episode, are you diagnosed bipolar?

Yes, I am. Okay. One or two?

Uh I believe it is two. It's the genetic one. Okay. Um uh different conversation, but um So, have you had manic episodes before?

Yes, I have, but they were not as extreme as this one. Uh tell tell me about it. So, basically, I was having a lot of family trouble, and then I had health problems, too. So, I also have endometriosis. I had a flare-up and had to have emergency surgery, and it was just a complication of everything all together that I think what made it a really bad episode for me.

>> Yeah. So, tell me about the payday loans you took out. How bad is it?

Um so, the original total amount was like 2,300 and something, and with all

that interest, it is approximately $5,800 with all that interest.

>> Mm. Gosh. I don't I don't know how those people sleep, to be honest with you. I just don't, but Yeah. I'm not very happy about it. I know. I know. I know. Okay. So, question number one is do you have your Are you Are you

I've seen I've seen friends, I've seen colleagues, I've seen countless students of mine over the years who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and and and you know it's on a spectrum, various various levels of it, um who

when when they commit to med management, when they actually take their meds, and when when they feel great and when they don't feel great. Um and when they put in some what I would call, for lack of a better term, some hurdles.

When I feel myself beginning to start

down a path where I'm going down to the basement, or when I'm starting on a path where I'm about to go to the mountain top, I know I'm going to give my debit card to a trusted friend.

I am going to turn my internet off for 7

days. Right? So, they put some really big hurdles to protect themselves from themselves in those seasons.

Um do you have Are you taking care of your medications? Are you seeing a professional? Are you Are you managing this thing in a in a healthy way?

Yes. So, we were in the process of figuring out what dose worked for me last year, like what medications, and that's when I had the episode. So, it wasn't the correct medication. Now, I'm actually on the correct one. So, I don't know if it's okay for me to disclose the type, but >> Well, it it it doesn't matter for this conversation, but I just want to tell you I'm proud of you.

Thanks. Thank you. And No, I want you to commit to me and George and everyone listening, you're going to stay on the plan. Okay?

Okay. And that's awesome. Now, when it comes to getting this paid off, George will walk you through it. It's a It's a It's a math problem, but we fully believe you can get there. Is that And you don't believe in yourself, we probably believe in you more than you do right now, but hear us say we believe in you.

Okay. Okay?

Same team?

Same team. Awesome. Awesome. I'm really glad that you called. So, give me some more details about your financial picture. Are you working full-time right now?

No. So, I'm actually going back to school for human resource management and business management, cuz I want to get a better career. Right now, I'm really just working as a waitress, so my income isn't like What's the proper term I'm looking for? It's not like a set-in-stone thing. It's always flip-floppy, and it's So, you're working part-time as a waitress, and then part-time school?

Yeah. Okay. What other debts do you have right now? Um I have a student loan debt that is only 3,000, but that's on deferment right now cuz I'm in school. Okay. And then, there's one dental debt that I'm still paying back cuz I had to get my teeth fixed. And then, um the last one

was a previous collection from a credit card when I was like really young that I decided to open in me. Anyhow, it's getting taken care of. Have Have you ever been debt-free in your adult life?

Um I guess technically not because like I opened my first credit card at 18. It was a student credit card. Didn't we all? So, I want I want you to just picture Alicia for the first time in her adult life completely debt-free with savings in the bank to cover any emergency that would come up. How good would that feel? Oh, it feel really great.

It's It's a thing you don't have right now, which is peace.

Yeah. Right? And trust in

when I'm having a good day, I'm having a bad day, I'm having a really really wild week or really low week, I'm okay.

It's It's a magic feeling for somebody in your situation. It's a magic feeling for all of us, but especially for somebody whose inner world can be as volatile as yours is, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Do you have any money in your checking account or savings account right now?

Um in my savings, I only have like 10 bucks right now, unfortunately. I do have 200 in cash savings, but that I was saving for like emergencies for my pet if something happens with her. Okay.

Well, let me walk you through the baby steps cuz this is the framework that will help you actually have a very tactical plan instead of just trying to do a few good things at once. And so, baby step one is get a thousand dollars saved. So, you have 200 now. That's awesome. We're on the path to getting a thousand. So, right now, can you make minimum payments on your debts while working part-time, or do we need to up the the income?

Um it's most If I do minimum payments and everything, it is doable with the income right now. Okay. Now, minimum payments on that payday loan, that balance grew since we've been on the phone. Yeah. That's the scary part. And so, I want you to get angry at this thing, and that might mean we need to take a semester off and go really hard and work 50 hours a week to at least knock out the payday loan.

Okay. What's the trajectory for this program that you're in? How much longer and how much money?

Um so, luckily, financial aid covers everything, and I've been doing scholarships, so I haven't had to pay for a penny for school, luckily.

Um And how much longer do you have?

I believe it is 2 years. So, here's the bad news. We can't go two more years working part-time as a waitress and make any financial progress. Would you agree?

Probably, yeah. And so, we need to figure out a different path. Maybe it's a pause, maybe you do less school right now, less credits, and it takes you longer, but you could go work full-time and clean this up, get some money in savings, and then go back to school with a whole lot more peace. Cuz right now, it's probably hard to focus on your school work when you see that interest accruing on that loan. Yeah, definitely.

Mm. So, once you get a thousand bucks saved, which I hope happen What do you make in a week?

Um so, just to average it out, probably like 300. There are some weeks where I can get up to like 500, 700, but you

know, it's not always guaranteed. >> So, you're living off of like $1,200 a month? Yes. Are you able to do that without going further into debt right now?

Uh yes. So, luckily, just because of my low income, you know, I have food stamps, and I'm able to get food and everything. My living situation is basically just pay what you can, so I have no rent. So, so far, it's actually been really doable, and I have like a really cheap phone plan where it's only like 25 bucks a month.

Wow. Well, I don't want you to stay there. This is not like a well, I can make it all work. You're in survival mode. This is literal poverty. And that That's the

exact target demo these payday lenders go after because they're the most vulnerable, the most desperate.

And so, this is going to take a lot of work, literal work. And that might mean we get two waitress jobs, and, you know,

we ratchet down on school, ramp up on income just for even a season so that we can get our head above the water.

Okay. Cuz once you have a thousand dollars saved, now Now can start tackling these debts and just list them out from smallest to largest. So today, this is going to really help you get it out of your brain. Put them all the debts on paper and put the balances and list them in order from the smallest balance to the largest balance. So your next goal after getting a thousand dollars is throw as much as you can on that smallest debt.

Okay. That might be the dental debt. I don't know. And maybe I'm guessing your credit is shot at this point. No one's going to go give you a personal loan, correct? Yeah, no. Um, I I know my score is like

625, but I don't think anybody's going to give me a loan or anything. >> Yeah. I'm trying to get you out of this payday loan cycle cuz if this is going to be another year before you can attack this payday loan, the balance is going to be 10 grand.

Yeah. Yeah, that is probably scary.

>> have to stop the bleeding and if that means the the dream of the HR job is on pause, I'm okay with that cuz I don't want you to look up and now it feels hopeless because this loan just keeps doubling and doubling because it's [music] three or 400% APR.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Alicia. Hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with our budgeting app Every Dollar to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars coming in >> [music] >> and hopefully you'll see some light at the end of this tunnel soon.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

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Karen is in Denver up next. Karen, welcome to the show.

Thank you. How can John and I help?

So this year, my husband and I would like to start saving for retirement.

Um, but in our budget, we only have

about 500 a month to put towards that.

Um, so my question is, is it

better for us to open

one Roth IRA and put the full 500 in

each month or for each of us to get one and split it in half or if there's if that makes a difference at all.

Well, as far as growth goes, it'll be the exact same.

Okay. Now, are you guys in a financial place to invest? Do you have any debt right now outside of a mortgage?

No, we don't have debt. Um, we have a

emergency fund.

And the reason our budget is lower for

retirement is we're trying to save for a house this year. So we're pretty much putting everything we can towards saving for down payment and closing costs and all that. Got it. So you're in what we would call baby step 3B where you're you can sort of split the difference here where you can choose your own adventure and invest anywhere from zero to 15% while saving up for that down payment. So how long is the down payment going to take?

Um, we're hoping we can do it in the next 12 months. Awesome. And so after that 12 months is over, you guys get into a home, would you then ramp that up to 15% of your household income and could you?

Um, we live in a pretty expensive place.

Um, so I don't know if we could do a the full 15%, but I think we would like to increase it over time as we can.

Okay. How expensive are we talking? Cuz when you say we're going to save up a down payment, we're going to buy a home, how much is this mortgage going to be in comparison to your take home pay?

Um, so

for the area we live in, pretty much the

the cheapest houses we can get is between 400 and 450. So that's our goal.

Okay. Um, and my husband,

he a lot of his work is commission, but

the goal would be to make about 150 this

year before taxes.

Okay. Are you working outside the home as well?

Um, I'm may I'm just bringing in between

like 500 and 1500 a month. Okay. So

let's add another 10 or 12 to that.

150? Okay. Mhm. So here's the good news

is you guys have a great income and I hope you're able to get that house within 12 months. My fear is that if you

if it's too tight to invest 15%, it's always going to feel too tight and that's going to leave you guys with, you know, probably needing to work later in life in order to catch up on retirement.

Mhm. So that's something I would consider. You can plug some numbers into an investment calculator to get a a better picture of what that's going to look like, but you know, you guys are young, you got time. Just make it a goal to get to that 15% mark and that might mean we need to cut other expenses.

That might mean we can't afford to live in the area we wanted to. It might mean you need to be working part-time or full-time in order to make the numbers work. And so whatever you guys do, uh, make peace with that decision and hopefully you'll get to that baby step four mark in no time. Silas is in Des Moines up next.

Hey, uh, I appreciate you guys taking my call.

Um, it was actually your book, George, that got me to take financial situations a lot more seriously, so I appreciate that. >> Awesome. Love to hear it, man.

So what's serious now? What'd you get serious about?

Uh, well, we've been trying to me and my wife have been trying to be better about budgeting. Haven't had the best time with that. But recently, we found out that, uh,

we have some settling going on underneath our house and our foundation is dropping a little bit. >> [snorts] >> And we've only got a couple quotes on it so far. The first one was 12,000, second one was like 24,000.

And we don't have that kind of money and

so just not sure what the best way is to han- best way is to handle this knowing that it could get worse, but not knowing how fast it could get worse and Yeah. How much money do you have saved?

A thousand dollars. Okay. And you still have some debt to pay off?

Uh, yeah, we've got just a little over 9,000 dollars of debt. Okay.

And what's your household income?

Uh, 60,000. Give or take. Is that both

of you working?

Uh, no, just me. Just you. Okay. Is she home with the kids?

Yeah, she's home with her our son. Okay.

So I imagine money's already tight as it stands, let alone thinking about, you know, cuz if if if you need to, you know, solve this problem within 6 months, let's say. Well, you need to save two grand for 6 months straight to get 12 grand to make the repair. Mhm. You tracking with me?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that feels like it's going to be a lot from your take home pay. So this might be a a season where we say, "Hey, we're going to pause the the baby steps if this is a really urgent matter and within 6 months we need to scrape together 12 grand." Mhm. Okay. Yeah, we've been spending today was the first day we've been trying to find extra work. I'm trying to find extra work. She she applied at a place and and

so we're trying to find find that. I just don't know. Would I don't cuz the other issue I have is um, I don't I'm not I'm not certain if we can afford the house even without the issues. Oh, wow. Like the mortgage itself?

Yeah. Yeah, cuz our mortgage payment with escrow is like 1400 and I bring home about three grand a month. You bring home three grand?

>> already concerned about Yeah, I'm already concerned about that, but I don't know if she's as concerned about that. How do you make 60, but you take home 36 grand? 60 is some with bonuses. I get a couple

bonuses a year. Okay. Uh, and then in the past, I've had a lot more overtime work, not as much this last year.

>> I think we're going to need some in the present and the future until we get to a better spot financially.

And so I would have her working if she's able to. I think you're going to need to ratchet up the overtime and maybe a part-time job on top of that because right now I don't think the mortgage is the the big problem here. I think long term you get your income a little higher we can make this work. If you're making, you know, five or six grand a month now these numbers aren't that scary.

It's not like you have a $4,000 mortgage payment. That's a reasonable, you know, you're going to pay 1,400 bucks in rent somewhere. And so this is I would do you have a professional that's looked at it who said, "Hey, this you need to deal with this within this time frame." That's what we're working on.

Uh most of the the two companies we've had come out they kind of just like it, you know, they don't know how fast it's necessarily progressing or how bad it actually is. So we thought about we've been uh thinking about trying to find a maybe just a local inspector or something like that that can come in and maybe try to get a little bit better idea.

Mhm. That would be money well spent just for your peace of mind.

Mhm. And then maybe you track it and go, "Hey, here's how it's progressing based on what he said and if it gets to this point we got we got to make this happen." But I would act like you need to make this happen next month in the fire that's under you guys to get to work and get this money saved.

Mhm. Okay. And so if that means pausing the baby steps right now cuz you're in storm mode because it is an emergency, great. Maybe the inspector says, "Hey, I wouldn't worry about this right now. I'd check back in a year." Well, that gives you some breathing room to go, "Okay, we [clears throat] can knock out our debt and get this foundation repair money saved up." Mhm. Okay. >> So we need a a few more facts here to give us some peace about the next steps, but I think you're well on your way.

Um the income is really the the glaring issue here and the good news is that's fully in your control.

It's not going to be fun, but for six months or a year you can do just about anything and suffer through it and live to tell the tale. So I wish you guys the best on the journey to debt freedom and

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel joined by Dr. John Delony and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

You call us up, we'll help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Ryan is in Flint, Michigan up next. Ryan, what's your question today?

Uh how are you doing, gentlemen? God bless. Um I have a few questions, but the main one I'm trying to get through is that I we've been listening me and the wife have been listening to um Dave Ramsey's uh Total Money Makeover. I've listened to one of his seminars about baby steps

and we're trying to dial in a few things. Um now I don't know if you want me to go into how much we make and then how much of a debt or not to help with these questions. Well, you tell me the question and then we'll dig in with some follow-ups. All right, thank you, sir. Um first one is that I know you guys said something about a savings should be around 1,000.

We have about 9,000 in our savings and we have a car the one car that we have that's debt that we want to pay off and that's roughly around 10 to 11,000. Okay. And it's and we're just kind of not used to not having some kind of um I guess oh crap money to fall back into.

And uh we have >> Um no, we have the car and as I've been

listening to the books and what you guys say I've I've been lied to so you must excuse me about this, but we have a car, we have two leased trucks. Our biggest is our house our mortgage and then from what I understand we have two loans that we took out on our 401 or Roth. Oh. But

we pay ourselves back on those ones.

>> [clears throat] >> Well, yeah. But you unplugged all the growth and paying interest so Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

>> I'm less concerned about your oh crap emergency fund and more more of your oh crap debt that you guys have racked up.

How much do you guys make?

Uh between me and my wife total probably around 200. Wow.

That's a great income.

Yeah, we're just not great. So uh I mean we ran into some issues. We moved in and we outlived let's just say we outlived what we had and what we had coming in until we got to the point where we were just about underwater.

Uh the wife had 34,000 I think on her cards. I took the loan out of my 401 to pay her card off. She took another loan out to pay the credit card off. So once the credit card was paid off I thought, "Well, man, we should be getting an extra thousand or 1,500 bucks a month." And it just didn't start equating to that. It just disappeared into more spending lifestyle creep. >> Into more You got it 100% sir.

>> That's the American dream right there. You summed it up. Okay, so you've been robbing Peter to pay Paul, playing whack-a-mole, taking out one debt to pay off the other debt. What is your question today specifically that we can help with?

Okay, so once we pay off the car with the savings that we have now do we just keep a thousand in there or because of our expenses say our mortgage and whatnot should we keep a little bit more money than a thousand in there?

The thousand dollars does not change based on expenses or income. It's a flat thousand dollars and it's not meant to cover everything. And so if something did occur where you needed more than a thousand dollars to cover an emergency, you would simply pause the baby steps and that next check that comes in you would use toward the emergency. You'd sell stuff. You'd work extra. You'd cut your lifestyle down to nothing until you got through the emergency. Now we're back to the baby step two paying off our consumer debts.

Excellent. And now the next one would be so I should obviously from what you said I should not we should not be borrowing from our 401 because of the interest we'd be missing out on the accumulated interest. Yeah. There's like 14 reasons why it's a bad idea, but we won't get into that today. Just if are you committing live in front of America that you are done borrowing money? That's the big question I have for you. No more leases, no more 0% cards, no more borrowing from retirement. Are you guys done with debt?

Yeah, we're done. That's kind of where 100% I I'm more committed than I would

say my wife is committed too and I'm very committed on it cuz I'm tired of living the paycheck to paycheck life. That's just that for what we make and what we do we should be able to be fine and live way better and you know, at least have more money in the savings. So I'm 100% committed. It's just these few of these questions that I'm having I'm trying to rationalize in my head to get my head around wrap around how I how you guys want us to do this.

Have you guys ever created a budget together where you actually sat down and said, "All right, here's the paychecks coming in. Here's all of our expenses for the month. We're going to track our transactions." Sir, we just have we've been married we've been together almost 20 years and about maybe two two and a half years ago we just put our accounts together. Wow, congrats.

>> Welcome to the big leagues. Yeah, I know, right. That's when we paid off the debt and that's when we started, you know, okay, we need to accumulate. So primarily what we do right now is most of our stuff comes out of our savings account slash checking account and then we like for groceries and other things that we have to buy for the most part goes to the credit card and then we just pay the credit card off every >> Oh, we there's a new character has entered the scene here, the credit cards.

Tell me about those. >> How many do you have and is there a balance? It's just one and there's usually there's only the balance for the week prior which is gas if we get groceries and that's pretty much about it. So we put gas, groceries or maybe a few other bills I'm I'm going to have to look to see that goes on it, but we pay it off pretty much every week with every check.

We don't occur a balance and let the balance hold on it cuz we just paid off 34,000. So we're not trying to get a balance on it.

Wow. So we're just you told me you're not going to borrow money, but you're okay temporarily borrowing someone else's money with the promise of paying it back within the week. It's like, "Hey, bro bro, I got you. I got you at the end of the week." Essentially that?

And so here's my challenge to you and I put this in my book Breaking Free from Broke.

And the goal is let's see if you didn't have more peace in your life, if you didn't create more margin to throw at the debt, if you didn't miss the credit card rewards you thought you were getting. And what I found is most people go, "Oh my gosh, instead of the 2% cash back, I spent 10% less than I was spending." Yeah, that sounds about right. And we only did this cuz of my financial my 401k guy said to do this. And and the main the main question was >> What is a 401k guy?

You have like a financial advisor told you to open the credit card? That's exactly what he said. He said we should have everything going under the credit card that we pay and then just pay that off.

Uh no, that was from I did that from Fidelity from my work because I get work and matching and I'm able to just go in there myself and take out. But that was he told me that's what I should do in order to pay the credit card off.

>> I say this with all due respect, you've got to fire that guy before the day is over and get a new guy. I've been feeling like that. I just told my wife the other day. >> [laughter] >> Just the other day I told her I go, "Something just not right with what I what what this guy is doing and I'm just not feeling right about it." >> You've been following his advice for years and you're broker than ever.

Yeah, yeah. I can't I can't Are you guys still investing as well? My guess is you're still putting some money into retirement. >> I am at 8%. I think I get a 3 and 1/2 to

4% match from work and my wife is roughly around the same. Um we had rolled over a previous 401 into this Roth with this guy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't know you could contribute to your retirement once you take a loan against it until it's paid back.

I can contribute. Yeah, the contribute no it it mine is is it takes a certain portion out on top of my percentage that I'm putting in for the possible Okay.

Okay. Well, here here's another thing I would encourage you to do is to stop all investing until this mess is cleaned up.

Cuz right now you're doing 17 things at once and you're not seeing progress on any of it.

I got you. With a debit card, you're saying just go to debit card and just don't even worry about credit cards then. Exactly. I've been living that life for like 13 years.

Uh I'm going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I cover the whole debit card credit card thing in the credit card chapter. So read that and I'm going to hook you up with EveryDollar. This is going to be like John and I in your pocket coaching you 24/7 with new recommendations based on where you're at financially and educating you along the way.

So hang on the line, we'll get you the book and EveryDollar. I'm rooting for you, Ryan. This is a solvable problem.

There's no reason to be this broke.

>> [music]

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Jamie is in Chicago up next. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Hey George, hi John. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

So um I've been following uh the plan

for quite a while. I got rid of my car.

I paid down all my debt. The only two things I have left are my student loan debt and my mortgage. Awesome.

>> I owe 98,000 on and unfortunately on my

student loans I owe today 142,000.

Oof. Last Wednesday, I learned that my

position at my job is going to be eliminated >> Oh, man. >> and I will be without a job on February 1st or on 2nd. And um

I am kind of freaked out. Yeah.

>> I feel like I don't have I only have about 25 in uh 401k

and obviously I'd want to get that student loan debt out of the way, but with uh my separation I'll get a severance package, but it's only going to be about 16,000 and that's before taxes. So I am not sure

So that floats you three months? What do you think? Yes. Yes, three months. Okay.

What do you do?

I am a facility planner.

For a guy who's not very smart >> manage >> What's that? for a large healthcare company. I manage uh the

plans before plans and where people sit and Okay. So like physical >> things like that. >> You help with the logistics. What's your chance of getting a new job quickly?

Um I hope well good, but I it took me a

couple of years to get that job.

>> Okay. So um John, I'm glad you're on this call. You'll understand this. I was on disability for some years and um was

able to get back into the job >> market and uh this was the position I landed and it's been a really good position for me. I work from home. Yeah.

So um I'm kind of nervous about, you know, kind of the things that go around with social anxiety and those kinds of things, so So I'm I'm going to I'm going to give you a word I'm going to give you a word it will be, but I'm going to give you a word that most it may cause some people listening to inhale sharply, okay?

Okay. But I'm telling you this word because I believe in you and I trust in you, okay?

You have an absolute emergency on your

hand.

Yes. >> And >> Agreed. And you have proven to yourself

you have documented evidence over the last few years

that you are not who you once were.

Exactly. And these kind of big events, a

job loss, a somebody passing away who we care about, our body wants to drag us

right back into this is how we always handle things.

Right. And what we you have a bonafide

emergency and you've got a tiny little runway to land the plane, right?

Right. >> And so what we're not going to do is turtle up.

We're not go we're going to grieve the heck out of this thing, but I'm going to say this and it's going to sound crazy. We're going to grieve it later.

What we're going to do is start applying for jobs like mad. And we're not looking

for careers, we're not looking for exact

replicas, we're not looking for perfect work-from-home situations. We're looking for two jobs that we're going to go to in the morning and in the evening and we're going to feel the social anxiousness. We're going to feel it and then we're going to go through it because we have an emergency on our hands. And on the other side of this you're going to be so freaking strong

that the landscape of jobs available to you will double or triple in scope.

You get what I'm saying?

Yes, I do. It's going to be hard, it's going to be scary, and your body's going to want to go back to what it has done in the past, which is turtle up and just um and wave the white flag. And we're not doing that this time. You've come too far.

Exactly. And that's exactly why I'm calling because I felt like um I was my

my instinct was to go back to that old thinking and it's like, "No, I've come so far, why would I do that?" I >> We're going to apply for coffee shop jobs, we're going to apply for maintenance [clears throat] shop we're going to apply for every a waitress jobs, everything. Everything.

Okay. Everything. Cuz cuz what you need right now is A a reason to get up in the morning and B you need money.

Think about this. If you could work so hard that you didn't need to touch the 16k and you could throw that whole thing at the debt once you get some stability >> That's the goal. you're going to be on cloud nine.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking and I just Make that the goal.

Now you're not a bad person if you touch the 16 grand. I'm not mad if you use the severance, but how cool would it be if you didn't and it really propelled your baby steps. Instead of waiting three months, the money runs out and you go, "Well, I guess I need to find a job now." That's not going to help anything, so I'm not going to do that. We're going to apply for fancy jobs and and you you know the difference what I'm saying.

We're going to apply for those in the evenings and at night.

Okay, sounds good. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Career Assessment in there. And what it's really going to help you do is figure out, "Hey, what are the skills behind the work I've been doing that I really love and enjoy and I'm good at?

And then what other roles can I apply that to?" Cuz right now you're thinking, "I need to I'm going to type in these keywords." And I think there's so many underlying skills. You can take a logistical nightmare and clean it up and organize it. Sure. That's an amazing skill to have that you can apply into anything.

Project management. That would be a great field for you.

I have a degree in interior design and a a degree in psychology.

I love it. Have you pursued interior design at all as a career?

I did and that's kind of why it took me so long to find this job because I felt like um I wanted a very specific commercial job and it just wasn't happening. So then I was I found this job. A recruiter reached out. Well, on top of your uh you know, your job shopping, I'd contact 10 interior design companies in your area and say, "Hey, I have a degree in interior design. I'm ready to start tomorrow." Okay, I will do that.

I mean, you got the degree in it. You spent a pretty penny to get it. Might as well give it your best shot. This might be the the on-ramp you needed to go, "I needed to get laid off in order to go pursue the thing that I really wanted to do." But here's your keyword. Okay.

We're going to go.

Go. We're going to act. There will be no hours left unspent twiddling our thumbs.

>> Yeah, you're going to [clears throat] you're going to close your computer screen and go for a quick walk around your neighborhood and you're going to put your head on your pillow exhausted cuz you've been working so hard.

The energy has to go somewhere, right? It can paralyze you or you can do it to solve this present emergency.

Exciting. She's She's paralyzed in excitement right [laughter] now.

That's so great, Jamie. Thank you for the call. John, let let's talk about this cuz a lot of people We talked about this on the show that it's it's like losing a loved one. Like the grief of losing a job and the the shame, the guilt, the fear. It's like all the emotions are there. >> And in her situation, having a diagnosed anxiety condition, the thing about anxiety that's the worst is the only way through it is through it.

And so, you're going to have all of this these feelings. You're going to have all these emotions.

She has an emergency. And millions of Americans have an emergency and what many [clears throat] people do when there's an emergency is either they run around bananas or just creating more

mess or they just take their foot off the gas, put the car in park, and exhale. And she doesn't have that luxury. She owes couple hundred thousand dollars in various things, right? So, we're going to be have some direction. We're going to go get a job, get some money, get some connections. We're going to apply for some jobs. We're going to read a book. We're going to have coffee with somebody who's in a job adjacent.

We're going to go do a bunch of stuff.

And the weight of this, dude, I got fired. They took my job away. That That grief will be there, but we're going to We don't have the luxury of just stopping for a season. We've got to go get a job. We're going to go, go, go, go. I love that. An

object at rest stays at rest. Once you stop, it is so hard to get moving again.

You get comfy, you get your favorite blanky, you're watching your favorite Netflix show, and you go, "Well, that's

a problem for tomorrow me." >> Yeah, it's hard, George. If I'm If it's like 9:00, I go to bed early cuz I'm a nerd. And I sit on the couch and just say, "I'm going to watch one show." It is so hard to get up from the couch and just go to my room to bed, right? I should have just stayed up and gone to bed and got the extra 30 minutes or 45 minutes of sleep.

Similar here.

And now you're going to be in a real mess. So, you got a job You're They're taking your job away in a month.

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One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning with money and we just heard this from Claire and Winston.

This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the EveryDollar app and I'm amazed how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500

of extra margin each month to put toward our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off never going back.

We love to hear stories like that and the truth is you can do this, too. That's not just a Claire and Winston thing. That's an anyone thing. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree and live like no one else and it starts by downloading the EveryDollar budgeting app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Go see how much extra margin you can find with a little bit of that coaching and encouragement. Lee is in San Antonio up next. What's going on, Lee?

Hi. Hey, how can we help?

Well, so my question I'm a little unique. So, I went through a divorce in 2024.

Um and by the grace of God um as of the holiday season of this year, we are reconciling and God's restoring our marriage. >> Wow. Yeah, it's really beautiful. Um my question, however, has to do with So,

um when we were married before, um I was not great in the financial department. Um my husband was with the same company for almost 20 years. Hard worker, always provided. I kind of jumped from job to job, wasn't the best with the money.

Um racked up a $10,000 credit card, all of that. So, over the past year while we were apart, um I uh graduated from FPU

and have followed Dave Ramsey.

Um and I've I'm working with a company right now to pay off my credit card. So, I'm hopeful that in within the next couple months that will be paid off. So, I will myself be debt-free.

Um my question really is I know that Dave is pretty vocal about his opinion that when a couple is married, that there is no my money, it's our money.

So, understandably given my past behavior, um my husband is a little hesitant to go back to commingling our funds. So, I'm just kind of looking for some guidance on how he and I can navigate that this time. Um just you know, as we

that trust is built back up. Um and maybe just some guidance on how to navigate this this season. What other trust was broke in your previous time together?

Um well, there was no infidelity or anything like that. Um I honestly the story My story is that I really just was in a really bad place. I believed a lot of lies about myself and my marriage

and um the enemy convinced me that it was right to leave. And so, I just did.

I just picked up one day and I left. I didn't There was there was no seeking God in any of that. So, really the trust that was broken was just me giving up on

us. Okay. So, I want you to hear his hesitancy as not about money.

It's deeper than that.

If if If it was a surprise to him, not that y'all were in a tough season, not that you know, you were struggling or anything like that. Um but if it shocked him when you walked in and said, "I'm out." Mhm. I want you to see that for what it was, which is you pulled a pin on a grenade and rolled it into his life and exploded it. Yeah. Right? Now, every couple co-creates their relationship. That is what it is, right?

So, I'm sure he's would sit here and tell me he's not perfect. I get all that. But if you're going to truly say we're reconciling, you can't There is no reconciliation.

There is no I mean, you can get remarried. You can do whatever you want, but there's not a true remarriage if both of you don't have your feet in the boat.

And at the same time, he's still living He still has fresh scars from when this person he's getting back in the boat with shot a hole in the middle of the boat and then swam to another shore. You get what I'm saying? Of course. And so, here's the path back. The path back is,

"Will you give me being him to you a very clear road map that I can follow

to reestablish trust.

Cuz trust will not be re-earned in huge grandiose moments. It will be earned in a thousand tiny little ways over time.

And the commitment here is we're going to do this every 30 days, every 60 days.

And it's not you groveling. It's not like, "How am I doing? Do I get an A on trust this month?" It's not that. It is I want a clearer path back. If we're going to really get remarried, we're going to go all in on this thing again, both of us have to put our feet in the boat and you'd be crazy to do that all the way. I get that. So, I'm going to ride in your boat for a while. Like I'm going to ride shotgun with you.

What does a path to reestablish trust look like? And he's going to lay that path out. And then you get to decide whether I'm going to follow that or not.

Yeah. Right? And and here's the other thing. If he says I'm in, he's got to be all in, too, which means he has to risk that the person he's marrying does this to him again.

That's the risk of any great marriage and any great relationship at all, right? Is that you could get hurt.

So, he needs to give you a path. You need to ask him, not, "Hey, why aren't you sharing our money? You don't trust me." And not you heading hanging your head in shame saying, "I'm not trustworthy." We're past that. We're going to start establishing this. What does a path look like for me to reestablish trust? And let's take infidelity. Sometimes people say, "I want to see your phone every night. I want us to get new phone plans.

I want us to change our numbers. I want you to cancel all your social media." And here's the thing, the person who got cheated on can lay out whatever path they want and then the other person gets to decide whether I'm going to follow that path or not, whether I want to be a part of this relationship or not. And when that when you start walking that path, they can't weaponize the past because they have said, "I'm in this, too." Yeah. And and reestablishing money, like sharing your money together, is part of

Me and my wife share a single account.

George and his wife do. Dave and Sharon like the people that I know or that are successful and the data bears it out.

Couples who share finances do better because not cuz not just cuz of the money, but that means they share a picture on what they value, where they want to go with their life, what their shared vision is like all that stuff gets wrapped up in we all know where the money is and and all that. So, it's just you humbly asking for a clear road map.

And we're going to do one at 30 days, we're going to do one at 60 days, we're going to do one at 90 days and we're going to continue to work down this path together until both of you feel safe enough in your guts that both feet are in this boat and we are rowing the same direction.

Yeah. Can I give you some ideas, Lee, of some tactical things you could do that might it might make him go, "Who are you?" Number one, cut up all of your credit cards and close all of the accounts.

Okay. And then all of them Here here's the baller move, you freeze your credit.

And you give him the the passcode.

So that you can't open any type of account. You can't take on any type of debt if your account is frozen, if your credit's frozen. And then on top of that, say, "Hey, you know what? We're going to have a joint account, but I don't want the debit card right now.

And we're going to turn on transaction alerts so that anytime anything comes out of the account, we both get a text message of what happened." Or to celebrate you guys getting back together, we're going to give you a year of EveryDollar Premium.

Okay. Okay? But these are some things you can put on the table when he's like, "What are you talking about a road map to trust? I'm going to do this thing and this thing and this thing. I want to know what a path so that we can reestablish trust in this marriage. All in, both feet in the boat, both of us." Here's what I've already done. Here's what I'm doing now. Here's what I plan on doing.

I'd like check back in. And then maybe you guys agree on a timeline. Hey, we're going to check back in in 6 months from now. If all is good, then we're going to open the floodgates and it's going to be you know, we're just going to fly and build wealth together. And I you know, I I think that will prove to you more than to him That's exactly right.

>> He's not going to get a new trust you right now, Lee. You probably have some shame and guilt and baggage.

Yeah, for sure. And by the way, you have to have the courage to say,

"I don't want to reengage in this marriage if only one of your feet is going to be in the boat."

And so you get to say one of my one of

my bedrocks, one of the thing that's going to be important for us moving forward is that we get back to trusting each other enough to share money, to share whatever.

And so but I also know that's a tough scary thing right now, so I need a path.

But you get to say this is a big deal to me, not just I'm going to put my head down and go along with whatever he says cuz I screwed up and I'm I'm just a whipping [music] post. That's not it it won't work that way.

Right. You know what I'm saying? I'm proud of you. Thank you. This is a big step, Lee, and I'm so just inspired by the reconciliation and I hope that you guys are fully reconciled soon. Full unity, building wealth together like never before with an amazing marriage. So, hang on the line, we're going to send you EveryDollar. That'll impress him.

Go, "Hey, I'm working on my budget this month. You want to take a look?" Like who who is this person? Or our budget. Now we're talking.

>> [music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Wyatt in Montana.

Dude, Wyatt sounds like he's from Montana. >> I love that name. We recently started the baby steps and me and my family are on step two. We've been snowballing pretty successfully. He sounds like a Wyatt. We've been snowballing pretty successfully by selling stuff and we're making good progress. Our question is that with all the stuff that's going on around the world, how is it rational to stick to this? My instinct is to use extra cash right now to cash flow stocking up on food, ammo, and water.

Should we really stick to the baby steps or make sure our family is ready for any unexpected disaster? Wow. This could

have been a question from John Delony in Nashville. You wish you were Wyatt in Montana.

>> I do. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so there's a part of this that I understand, which is, "Hey, there's some crazy stuff going on. Should we just stockpile some cash in case?" Cuz we got debt. If he's on baby step two, it means he has a thousand dollars to his name in savings. The rest is going towards consumer debt. So, is this a storm mode where you go, "We got to batten down the hatches and just save up money?" I'm going to say no.

Should you stick to the steps? Yes.

Should you make sure your family is ready for unexpected disaster? That's the part we need a definition on. Right.

Right. And so if your unexpected disaster is the air conditioner going out, the you losing your job, um the

stock market crashing, not owing anybody

any money is a really great place to find yourself. Having no other payments other than we have to scratch and claw our way to right? To pay our bills. There's a real disaster in front of you, which is the debt, the mess that you made. And so I'm not going to focus on what could be and is there going to be, you know, World War III and it's all going to come come down and that therefore I'm going to hang on to my debts forever. That's a terrible way to live. >> Yeah. And the um

I I just I again, I quote my friend who who told me this years ago, but I don't have a meteorite plan.

I do. I have a lot of meat in the freezer. Hunting season just wrapped up here, so like I do, right? >> Am I going to Delony's house if something goes down? Absolutely.

>> make it, but like um do we have unrealistic stockpiles of water, etc.? No, because if if the water local municipal water gets cut off, we're going to have a whole different issue going on, right? And so I think people like to say think our our family's life is going to be like this just minus these things. It will not be.

It will be such utter wild apocalyptic

chaos that right? So, um it is easy to get distracted when you're

doing when you when you get past the energy stage, George, like the it's it's like the January 15th at a gym. like already starting to fall off because everyone got excited. They started their first workouts. They even got sore the first couple ones. They feel like they're doing something. And then about January 15th, you're like, "Oh, I just have to do this forever?" And it just goes wah wah. And

so, it's real easy when you're in baby step two, you're selling stuff, you're feeling it, paying debts off, that you look up and you're like, "Oh, we have 2 more years of this?

4 more years of this?

What about water and ammo, right?" Stay

the path. >> Yeah. Stay on the path. >> The other thing is, dude, you live in Montana, not Gaza. Like let's not act like it's all coming down in Montana.

Like there's some there's some scary places. There's some scary things happening. Montana's fine right now. And so, unless there's imminent danger in your area, I would stick to the plan. And if something really did happen, sure, you can pause the baby steps, stack up cash.

I don't think the apocalypse is on the list right now. >> And Montana's probably one of the places where you'd want to find yourself. If it all went down, I would love to be in Montana. Don't tell the zombies. They'll go there first. They'll never make it. Tim is in Los Angeles up next. What's going on, Tim?

Hey, uh I was curious. Me and my wife are getting ready to pay uh we'll pay off our $148,000 worth of debt. Woo! And

um yeah, I know, right?

Uh and I was trying to kind of see what's next cuz we do have like, you know, a 3-month like quote emergency fund, but um you know, we're trying to wonder too like with these Trump accounts, uh should we just install like if they happen, great, but you know, we were trying to figure out like should we start investing like in a high-yield savings or something like that for our kid now who's doing April?

So, you're in baby step two, you've already done baby step three, and you want to skip to baby step five.

Did I hear that I suppose yes. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> I would I would do them in order, which is take your emergency fund, and let's focus on the emergency at hand, which is the debt. Could you clear your debts with the amount you have in savings?

Uh yes, we could do it honestly within probably the next like 30 to 60 days, uh even without the emergency fund.

Um and that's kind of like where I'm at, and you know, obviously we have >> off your debt today and spend the next 30 days restocking the emergency fund.

Okay. In Vegas, we call that I call.

So, that's one one idea. Number two, once you are through baby step three, you're now at baby step four, which is to put your own mask on and invest 15% in your own retirement.

Uh the other problem is we don't actually own a house at this time, especially here in California.

Uh it's a little more difficult uh these days, but uh and so that's kind of like

the underlying question is like do we just pay off the debt and then save, you know, do that cuz it's all intensity towards like a house or, you know, put our child's future ahead of our own?

Well, I I don't I don't think any of those are the options. I think you should invest 15%, and if it's going to take you a long time to save the down payment, that's okay. If you're going to stay in California long-term, it might take you 8 years to save a down payment instead of two.

Right. And so, that's the math of it.

But I would not put any money towards And here's the thing with the Trump accounts, the government is Did you have a child in 2025 through 2028? Is that the plan?

Yes. Okay. So, I'm going to open one, and here's why. I would love the free $3,000 from the government. After all the money I've given them, it's time they give a little back. You don't have to put any money into it.

And I personally wouldn't. I did a whole video on this. It's really not super impressive other than the free thousand bucks that will grow from age zero to, you know, 65 into a few hundred grand.

That's awesome. Not mad about that. But I would invest for your kids in a 529 plan, which has tax advantages of tax-free growth. And if you want to invest outside of that, you could just open up a brokerage account in your name, and you can use that to save up for their wedding or, you know, a down payment on a house for them one day.

Right. So, I love the motive behind it all. The 529 plan And the 529 plan, how exactly would you go about that? That's the first time I've even ever heard of it. Yeah, well there's there's a blog about it on our website, and so I'll make sure we get you that link, and we'll put it in the show notes as well for anyone who's interested. But a 529 plan is just a

plan to save for college where you use after-tax money, and that money then grows tax-free for education purposes.

You can withdraw it tax-free to use for your kids' college, and they've even expanded it now. It could be for trade schools and training and supplies and all kinds of things.

So, it's a great way to save for college with compound growth and some tax advantages. So, that's what I'm currently doing for for both of my kids.

I put money in there every single month.

If they get birthday money from grandma, grandpa, it goes into the 529 account.

But here's the new here's the bad news.

If you don't invest for retirement, your kids are going to have to fund it.

And so, that's why we tell people to put their mask on first. There's a 100% chance you need to retire one day, 50/50 chance your kids even go to college and graduate.

Right. So, you're doing a lot of good things, Tim. You've got a great heart, and you're so close. You're on the cusp of this amazing financial

but I would just do the plan in order.

It works, man. It works. Pay off the debt today, and if that scares you, that tells me that uh you probably should do it. Cuz you'll stack up that cash in no time. If you put, you know, 20 grand towards the debt, and now we need 20 grand in the emergency fund, well, now we're just paying ourselves instead of a lender. I would rather do that any day.

It's hard, John. There's so much you could do. There's so many things that are good things. We want to pay off debt. We want to save. We want to save for the kids. We want to save for retirement. And that's why I love the baby steps. It just takes out all the ambiguity and gives you just a clear Nope, do that first. Nope, do that next.

And that's what I do. It's what I've done for my family. It's what John does for his. It's just it it I get it though. It gets it feels so hard

when um the world's all screaming at you from every different angle. It's hard to just stay the course. Just stay on the path. >> And now there's a new one, the Trump accounts. So, now we're distracted. It's like squirrels. Like look over here. Look over here. Look over It's like just The folks that win unhook from the system completely and just follow a different path, and we've laid it out for you.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel here with Dr. John Delony.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Teresa is in Indianapolis up next.

Teresa, what's going on?

Hi, how are you? Doing great. How can John and I help?

Well, um So, my mom's 82 years old, and she just

got hearing aids for $2,000.

And uh she is asking me and my sisters

to help pay the money back that she charged to her credit cards.

And you know, she doesn't she lives on her social security. She never really saved for retirement. And I feel like

even every time we go out, she, you know, expects us to pay for the dinners or lunches or whatever we do, and most of the time I do, but not all the time. Um and I've helped her

before with her budget, and I know she can save to pay for this purchase,

but how do I approach her about asking

for money and the entitlement she obviously feels that we owe her?

Uh what would you do? I'm on baby step two right now, and really don't have the money to give her.

Well, I think you're you just answered your own question.

I think the part that sounds like it's weighing you down is the stories you're telling yourself about her requests.

And so, if you've offered to pay for dinner a bunch of times, I don't fault her for just assuming you're going to always pay for it.

If you think that's a move on her part, and she's done that before, and she's always trying to like your whole childhood she was trying to get people to pay for food or whatever, that's another story.

But if you're if you don't have the money, you can just say, "Hey, Mom, I can't I'm I'm working on my own finances. I can't kick in on this time." That's it. And you can't control what questions she asks you. You can't control her temper tantrums.

You can't control the guilt you would feel cuz you want to be able to do it. You just can't right now. You can't control any of that stuff. What you can control is what you do, the next right move you make.

Your feelings are going to happen like regardless.

The next right thing is I can't afford it. I can't help right now.

Have you ever pushed back on her and just said, "Hey, Mom, I love you. I want to be honest. I'm not able to give you money anymore. I got to focus on my own financial responsibilities." I have I have.

I've said to her before, you know, she asked me, you know, why haven't we even been doing some stuff as much as we used to, and I said, "Well, Mom, I can't afford you." Like every time I go to lunch, you expect me to pay, and then even when I pay, you know, you don't say thank you, and you know, I just I don't have the funds. Like I have to when I think of going out, you know, I have to watch my pennies cuz I'm trying to, you know, get out of debt. But can y'all do other things?

Can y'all go for a walk?

No, it doesn't. And I've tried to curve it that way as well, too. It's just It sometimes it's just really hard cuz I know she's, you know, she's never really been ahead of the eight ball with money.

And you know, I just wish I was in a better financial position to help her with these things, but you know, some of it I I feel like, you know, she set herself up for this, too.

Yeah. But you just nailed it and that's what I didn't want to say it out loud, but you said it, so I'll want to pull that string a little bit.

A lot of this sounds like she's making requests that you as her daughter wish you could just give her the world.

I know. And you can't.

And so if you feel guilty, if you feel bummed out, if you feel sad about your own financial situation,

man, don't compound that frustration and pain and guilt and yada yada by blaming

her. It would be cool if we all had enough money to give our parents whatever we wanted, but most of us don't.

And it just stinks. And so we can either just cut off contact, which is a whole bunch of people do, which I think's insane, or we can say, "Hey, I'm going to start coming over to your house on Tuesdays. I'm going to make the coffee at the house and bring over a pitcher of coffee." Or you mom, you make the coffee. I'm bringing the Domino's. We're going to play.

And I can control that part. And it's not as cool as an as a hip diner in whatever town and yada yada, but it it'll still be valuable time with your mom that you'll be glad that you spent.

What do your siblings feel about this?

Are they also wanting to stop the sort of forced giving?

Absolutely. Yeah, and we're all in different positions and we all don't have the money right now. Like, I have sis One sister has kids in college, the other sister uh just lost a dog and had a um pays for her heater in her house,

and my other sister just had a surgery.

And I had a surgery last year, so like >> better part. You don't have to have a reason. Yeah. You can just say, "Mom, I can't help out right now." Thanks for thinking of me.

And that's it. And then hang up the phone.

And if she chooses not to pay the credit card bill because she won't or can't, then she deals with the consequences of that. It might go to collections.

Someone might be harassing her on the phone telling her she needs to pay or else. I don't know if you can repo hearing aids. I don't think you can, but maybe. I don't know.

Yeah. But that's the hard part of setting the boundary. It makes you feel bad, but you need to just repeat the boundary and make it clear cuz otherwise if she knows that boundary's flexible, she's going to get over it every time. Every time.

So just hold the line and about four times in she's going to go, "Oh, this is a dead end. I'll try another sibling."

And if she chooses to opt out of the relationship because of that, the sad part is it was transactional for the, you know, who knows how long before that.

Does she reach out without money being involved?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> So there's a relationship outside of this.

There is. Okay, good.

And maybe one day you guys are all in a better place and you go, "Hey, we're going to take mom on this amazing trip." But it needs to be on your terms. And right now all of it has been entitlement and guilt.

Instead of, "Man, it'd be really cool to just cover mom's hearing aids. That'd be a cool gift to her." But if you like her and want to spend time with her, go over to her house with some Domino's and some coffee and some

homemade cookies or whatever. And when she asks the question that she's inevitably going to ask, which is, "Can I have some money?" you say, "No, I don't have it, Mom, right now. All right, your turn." And maybe choose to deal with a couple of awkward questions or annoying questions or guilt-inducing questions for the greater sake of the relationship.

But you and your siblings don't need a whole bunch of, "Well, this I got college and I got a sick dog." You don't need all those excuses. You can just together or individually say, "As for me and my house, right now we're not going to participate, but we love you. We're still going to hang out with you."

And she's not going to be on the street.

I mean, she's not in dire straits here, right? Does she have other financial problems that are pretty intense? Or is it just, "Hey, she owes a little bit on a credit card."?

No, she just constantly like something happens, she puts it on the credit card.

She's just in a cycle. And I've tried like I've worked on her budget before when she let me. And you know, I even um

bumped it up a little bit so that she didn't realize she was actually saving money. Um and

but now she won't let me. It's been a couple years and she won't let me redo her budget so that I can help her. She doesn't want you involved on that side.

Yeah. That's a sign.

If she doesn't want your help getting better with money, she just wants the money, then that's a sign that you need to stop.

And maybe one day she opens up again and says, "Hey, listen, I'm struggling. I got collections people calling me. Can you help me figure out a way out of this?" And you go, "Yeah.

Here's a way out." And it's not going to be you giving her money. It's you showing her how to get out of this once and for all. And maybe that'll get her to stop using a credit card.

The hard part is the credit card companies are insane for giving an 82-year-old a line of credit who's living on social security. >> Well, they're not insane if their kids are going to pay it back. You know what I mean? Like it'll get paid out of her estate or collections or it'll be a tax write-off one day.

Madness.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> John is in Fort Worth, Texas. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hello. Good afternoon. How are you doing?

I'm doing pretty good. I got a good spot to be at, but I still have the question of what do I do. So I'm wondering where do I go from here me and my wife with our investments and like in the future.

We just completed We're basically baby Well, not we are baby step seven now just this month. Paid off the house.

That's amazing. Congrats. What's the house worth?

Uh about 300,000. Awesome. And what do

you guys have in retirement?

Uh right now uh cuz we did put uh

basically just like 10% at the time. We just stepped that up or she stepped hers up for a 401k. We're sitting around 150,

five I think counting hers and mine together. Okay. But where I currently work, I only have a uh Roth IRA option.

They don't have 401k. But we're doing that right now. We're doing that.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So we're doing that. Like I'm I'm started that last month. I started funding mine for last year and now this year I'm going to end up funding mine and one for her. So that way it gets me to the 15%

or actually above it. Just max it out.

>> Yeah, what's your household income? What's the gross income you guys will bring in this year?

Um 2026 it should be about 150. We were

beyond that before because I used to get a lot of overtime, but I changed jobs this year. Pay went up a little bit, but no overtime. Okay.

Cool. So what's your question?

Well, where do we go with the investments from here? So after the IRA and after the 401k, we're going to have the house payment plus we were putting up to 17 grand, actually a little more than 17 grand a year uh extra on the house to get the house paid off in 10 years. We actually beat 10 years. We're at nine years and a couple months is what we ended up with.

>> That's awesome. So we were still able to live our lives off of that. So it's like, "Okay, do I just put it the rest of it in a 401 uh into a uh brokerage account for a uh like a uh S&P 500 or >> your wife has a retirement plan through her employer?

Yes. What is that?

Uh hers is currently a traditional and

she said that they were changing that to a Roth. Okay. >> But right now we're trying to figure out where we have to do what percentage we have to do out of our pay so that way we can max that out, which is I believe 18,000.

Well, the 401k is closer to 23,000

or 23 five. So here's the here's the good news. 15% which you can invest more

if 150 grand is 22 five.

So you still have the tax advantage options. If you both do a Roth IRA this year, I think they just upped it to 7,500 is the cap for each Roth IRA. So

that puts you guys at 15 grand there leaving seven grand to invest. You can do seven grand in her 401k on the Roth 401k.

Yeah. But then after that like the way I look at it doing the finances, we're going to we're going to eclipse that. We're going to have more than that and >> more. Yeah, so of that. >> you could fully Let's try to max out the 401k and max out two Roth IRAs. That would be my goal for 2026 if I'm in your shoes.

All right, but then what do I do with the extra after that? So, you're saying you're going to invest at 23 plus the 15, that puts you at 38,000 and you're still going to have more to invest.

Um yeah, we looked at our we looked at our budget and we were sitting around 47. That was like, okay.

>> Wow, that's awesome. >> Yeah, but do Do you guys have a high deductible health care plan?

No, unfortunately we don't. >> Okay. Cuz if you have an HSA, you can invest through that and it sort of becomes a loophole retirement account.

So, if you don't have that, so I'm kind of going through in my mind, what are all of the tax advantaged options? And that's going to be your 401k, your IRAs, your HSA. If you run out of those options, then you can be investing into a brokerage account in the market.

All right. >> Which is not tax advantaged.

And that's that's where my question came in cuz it's like, do we still follow the investment recommendation, growth, growth and income, aggressive or like or do we just do S&P 500?

>> Yeah, you can do either. I mean, S&P 500 is simple and outside of retirement, that's a great option. That's what David do. If David gets a big royalty check for Total Money Makeover, he's just going to throw it into an index fund into a brokerage account.

Okay. So, I would just go that route and how old are you guys?

Uh I just turned 40 and she's 41. Oh, amazing. Think about that, dude. You're in baby step seven, no payments in the world, investing 40, 50 grand a year.

Go pop that into an investment calculator.

>> That's what you do next and you keep doing it year after year.

And it's not exciting and people are going to tell you, "Dude, you need to be more sophisticated and you should put your money here and crypto is going to take off and you should buy real estate." Stick Stick to the plan. Stick to what you know, what you understand, and you will be multi-multi-millionaires in retirement.

Yeah, that sounds good. Congratulations, man. Never go back into debt, keep investing as much as you can, and also enjoy your life. You you know, we always talk about John, there's three things you can do with money, give, save, spend.

And it's easy to have too much muscle in one area where like, "I'm so good at saving and investing." And you realize it's like hoarding. Yeah. And your giving muscles atrophied and your spending muscle, your wife is like, "Dude, we haven't been on vacation in 12 years and we have a paid-for house." >> That may have been my house.

And also mine right now with a toddler and a newborn. I'm like, "I'm not going anywhere." But that's a good reminder and uh congratulations on baby step seven with the paid-for house. Matthew is in Columbus up next. What's going on, Matthew?

You with us?

We were so close to a great call with Matthew. It was going to be gangbusters.

All right, we'll try again. Oh, there we are. Oh, there he is. Hey, Matthew. Took him a second. All right. How you guys doing? Great. What's your question today? Yeah, cuz um trying to refinance the house uh that I got and got a lower rate, obviously. But now when I pay over, you know, I want to pay over my mortgage rate, I was told maybe invest that money instead. Who told you that?

Uh a family member.

Okay. >> I was under the impression if I can pay off my mortgage faster, I can pay off my mortgage faster and then that just opens up a lot more money in the future.

Yeah, you're right. And uh you know, that's what we teach in the baby steps and it's it's what I've done in my personal life. >> Me, too. And so, you can trust a family member. You're going to be you're you're not you're still going to go to heaven.

>> [laughter] >> You know, so like it's not like uh this is a But the the Ramsey plan says, "Hey, if you're in baby step six, which you are, put any extra money toward the mortgage while investing 15%." So, are you investing 15% of your household income right now?

Yes, mandatory with my job.

Cool. And then how much extra can you throw at the mortgage? Like, how fast is this thing going to get paid off if you follow our plan?

Well, it's going to hopefully refinance and I'm hoping to get an extra two payments in a year. Okay. Have you done the the mortgage payoff calculator on our website to see what that does?

I have not. I only get to listen to the show for like 20 minutes on my commute home. Oh, thank you for hanging with us today. I would tonight when you get home, I would just pop onto our mortgage payoff calculator, see what those extra payments would do, and then have a have a game plan and go, "All right, 6 years, we're going to have this mortgage paid off." And the good news is the mortgage gets freed up and then you have the rest of your life to invest that payment.

Which for all all the people who are like, "This is what you need to do. This is what you need to do." I I'm telling you, man, there's something about having a house that is yours that even if your local city jacks up your tax rate on it, it's super annoying, but you don't have a house payment. Like nobody can take your house. There's something so profound about that safety and security for you and for your family.

Yeah, it's more than math and I've seen the argument, "Well, I have a 3% rate. Why would I not invest or even put it in a high yield savings account?" I get it. You could make the argument on paper, but those people they're they're forgetting about the psychological component and you truly can't explain it to someone unless you do it and live it. That it just is a more peaceful life.

I sleep better because I don't have a mortgage payment and I never think about, "Man, what could I have made if I invested that money instead of putting it toward the mortgage?" I never thought that once. I just got, "Cool, I got a freed-up mortgage payment. I'm on track to be a multi-millionaire in retirement. Life is good." All right, excellent.

Yeah, pay your house off. >> Thank you so very much.

Absolute Hey, what's your mortgage payment, by the way?

Um I'm hoping [clears throat] to get it down to 125. So, I mean, you know, 1,250 bucks a month. 1250. Okay, that's fantastic. Is that principal, interest, taxes, insurance, all of that?

Is that just principal and interest?

It's It's all taxes. Everything is all wrapped into one. I would also do some fun math using our investment calculator and go, "All right, 6 years from now, I'm 46. If I invest that $1,000

principal and interest from 46 to 65, what does that turn into?" That's some pretty cool math, too, on top of not having a payment for the next several decades. >> Nobody's ever said the words pretty cool math. [music] Except for you, George. Thank you. I like pretty cool math.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who actually know their stuff. Well, Ramsey trusted insurance pros, they're vetted.

They're coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. AKA, they're not going to sell you crappy products that we would never recommend. So, if you want to learn more, go to ramseysolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Silas is in Tampa up

next. Silas, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. Sure. How can we help?

Um so, I have a Chevy Colorado and I owe

36,000 on it and my wife's car, she has

a Toyota CH Excuse me, a Toyota CHR and she just had a transmission. It didn't go out, but the dealership told her that it's bad and they don't know how long it'll last, so it's about $13,000 to fix and

we're 22, both of us are, and we're just trying to get our finances in order and I want to get rid of the truck or I want to do something with the truck. I'm just looking for advice what I can do with it. Okay. What's your household income?

Um I make We work at the same job. Um we I make 1650 every paycheck, which I get paid twice a month, and she makes around 11 or 1200.

Um I'd have to look at like exactly, but it's rough I think it's like 1150. She makes about 1150, I make about 1650 every paycheck and we get paid twice a month. Got it. So, we're talking like 3200 and 2200. Let's call it 5400, 5500.

Correct. Yes. >> Okay. So, how much is her car worth?

Um I just took it um I looked it up on

the Kelly Blue Book and they said it's worth about 13 to 15,000. It's like the

They have that fair price, poor price.

Is that the private party value or trade-in?

Um that would be the private party value. Okay. And is that with the repair needed or is that saying, "Hey, if we got the repair done, it's worth 13 grand"?

Oh, no, that's just that's just that didn't include the repair. That's just it by itself like if it was right now because it's a it's a 2021.

Dang. Oh, hold on, dude. Hey, before you do anything, go to a local mechanic that you trust that's not the dealer. >> I don't trust them.

Okay. Yeah, they were kind of bull crapping us. You go to a local mechanic.

If it's a If it's a transmission on a Toyota and it's a '21, my guess is it's covered somewhere in the powertrain warranty.

Right. So, I'm not sure because um her grandparents bought her the car. Her There was a whole situation with her >> doesn't matter. That doesn't matter.

Okay. Like I go to a local mechanic and get the skinny on it, okay? And maybe a third mechanic. To get another opinion.

Cuz they may look at it and say, "Yeah, this happens all the time with this car." Or, "Yeah, this is under warranty." Or, "Dude, you don't have a problem at all. All these cars do this."

Right. >> Have you checked to see if they warranty the transmission because it's newer?

Um they didn't say they didn't I asked them like I asked them a ton of questions when I was there at the dealership and they didn't give me like a straight-up answer. I was just asking I was like, "Is there warranty on this?" And they didn't They were just like beating around the bush with me talking about how I need to get a new transmission. >> do your own homework on that and figure it out. Cuz here's the truth, if it's going to take 13 grand to repair and the car's only worth 13 grand, I wouldn't do this.

I would sell it for what it's worth, save up some money, and then get a different car.

My truck I took it in around yesterday while her car was getting worked on and they said the appraisal the appraisal value for selling it outright is 19,000.

And to trade it in is 22 to 25,000.

How is it possible the trade-in is higher than what it's worth? >> That's because they're giving you a cash number. Don't do this kind of business with dealerships. >> Don't ask the dealership what your car is worth. They'll lie through their teeth. >> Go private sale. >> Yeah, go to the Kelley Blue Book, back to where you were. What is the private party value for that truck? Cuz that'll tell you the exact difference you're underwater. You owe 36. If the truck is worth, let's say, 25, well, now we know.

We have a number. We're 11 grand underwater. How What did they tell you the trade-in was?

They told me the trade-in was 22 to 25

and then selling it was 19. Okay, that means you can probably get 27 to 30 private value. So, you might be six grand underwater.

So, how quickly could you guys save up the difference in order to sell it?

And have a little bit more to get you a different car.

Right. And could you share a car for a few months? Or go down to Fairwinds Credit Union, get a $10,000 loan, pay this thing the difference off, sell this thing private party, use a couple of grand to get yourself a a car that's going to get you from A to B, and pay that loan off. And you've just taken a $36,000 problem down to 10.

Right. Yeah.

Do you guys have any other debts?

Um I do. I have It's a It's a few small debts. It's like um from like a It's from Synchrony Bank.

It's like a $1,000 debt and a $2,000 debt. And then I have like a one of my credit my credit card got shut down.

And it was really my work's fault, so I filed a complaint with the Capital One, which is who I have the the car loan and the credit card through.

So, what's your total debt balance between the two of you?

Um she has zero debt. I have I would say probably close to $40,000 including the car and those those few things with the

the Synchrony Bank and my credit card.

Okay. So, the good news is if we clear this truck, you guys can be debt-free within 30 to 60 days.

Right. So, that's the new goal. Now, the the thing is we got to save up the money to cover the difference or like John said, go to your local credit union and get the difference in a loan so that we can reduce 36 grand down to 10.

So, that's the game. So, you have two pieces of homework. We got to work on your wife's car, figure out what it's really going to cost from a few mechanics, and then we need to either save up for the repair cost if it's going to be worth it, or we need to just sell it for what we can get for it and get a different car.

Yes, sir. So, you You got plenty of work to do, man. And it's very doable. I feel very hopeful about your situation, but it sucks. And I'm glad you're learning this lesson at 22 instead of 42.

Um that car loans Here's the Here's the best news. When you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater.

And so, never go into car loan debt again. Never lease a car. Yes, sir.

Never go to a dealership and let them convince you into a payment. You will go in there with a check. And John has done this where he goes in and he's got a check for a certain amount and he goes, "This is how much I have. You guys want to do business? I'm here. If not, I'll peace out." And I've had them say, "Hey, appreciate you." We shake hands and I walk out. And I had somebody take $9,000

off of a car price.

Because I had a check and I said, "Hey, this is what me and my wife agreed on before I left the house, and I'm not going to call her and switch the deal up on me. This is a big check. I would like that car." And let me go talk to my manager, come back. Let me go talk to my manager, come back. >> games. >> And they said, "Just take this car and get out of here." And I was like, "Cool." Right. Right?

But it Here's the deal. I wasn't tied to the car. It wasn't like, "This is my dream." Like it's just it's a car, man. It's awesome.

It's nice. I love it, but it's not my identity. It's not my end-all, be-all.

And if that one didn't work out, I was going to find another one. That's cool.

Yeah. That's what I think my wife's situation her car is It's It's got 80,000 mi on it and Toyota they can go for a a pretty long time. And but her grandparents bought it for us, so I guess she's a little emotionally tied to it. And but she's also understanding that the more practical aspect is I'm willing to pay the price, you know, maybe sometime down the road then, you know, if they wanted to help us on another car or whatever.

But she's just I guess emotionally attached to it because I don't I have no idea to be honest with you.

Right. All right. And if you can fix it for three grand, great. Let's fix it.

Right. They Yeah, because they told me like I looked it up and it said that there was a It could be a wheel bearing or it could be the transmission. And then they go in and they give me the highest bid possible, which I I I kind of expected them to give me the most expensive >> the thing. Dealerships make money two ways, financing and the service.

They don't make money when you walk in with a check and buy a car.

Right. And so, they have a vested interest in getting you to do all of their service. That's why you get a million emails every day like, "You didn't do this." Or, "You need to do this." Or, "Come see us." >> Time for your checkup. And so, take it to a local mechanic.

And by the way, when you go to the local mechanic, look him in the eye or her in the eye and say, "I'm coming here because you're somebody has a reputation that is trustworthy.

Really quick question. What do you recommend? [music] How would I private sell? What's the best way to private sell?

You list on Facebook Marketplace. You pay a little bit, put it on an AutoTrader, take really nice photos. I actually did a video on this on my YouTube channel. Just search how to sell car for top dollar, Camel, it'll pop right up. We'll also put it in the show notes. And remember, don't let cars be more than half your annual income, total, all things with wheels and motors. You do that, you're going to build some serious wealth.

>> [music]

>> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 12:14.

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord.

>> [music] >> Jordan Peterson said, "Face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for cat- catastrophe." Oh, that's good.

I think most of us are bracing for catastrophe these days. We're just tightened up just waiting for life to happen to us instead of responding to the challenge and and being a little more proactive.

That's good. Maria is in San Jose.

What's going on, Maria?

Um hi there, John and George. It's a pleasure speaking with you today. You, too. Um I have a question. Should I continue um paying off my house with the same intensity um if I want to retire in the next 5 to 10 years?

As of today, I was paying off the debt.

I'm completely debt-free as of aside from the house now. Cool. Are you single, married?

I am married, but I am the sole breadwinner. Okay. So, at the rate that

you're currently paying down the mortgage, how quickly will it be paid off? I would believe that I've calculated it would be uh 3 and 1/2 years. Wow.

And this is like with serious intensity.

Is this like overtime, no vacations, we're not living, or what?

No, I do take vacations, maybe twice a

year. Okay.

And I work a lot of overtime. Okay.

Well, that just helps me cuz I go gazelle intensity is rice and beans, we're not eating out, no vacations. We say move from intensity to intentionality once you hit baby step six. So, as long as, you know, you're you have a happy life, you're going on vacation, you're enjoying your money, you're giving money, you're investing 15%, it's up to you how fast you go.

Now, John and I are We're crazy people.

We're like you. We're like let's get rid of this debt as fast as possible.

Yeah, so I went pretty scorched earth and I'll tell you three and a half years is right at the outer limit for how long your body can take.

Okay. What does your What does your husband think?

Well, currently he is not here with me. That's why I was kind of wanting to get this done over with so I can retire and go um out of state with him. Out of the country cuz he's not here. Oh, literally not here like you you guys don't live near each other right now.

Correct. So my vacations are to go see him. Wow. Okay, so let me throw a

complete wrench in this deal. Why not sell your house and just move there to be with him?

Um because my whole family is here. Ah, okay. Fair. Fair. Wow. Okay, so how old

are you now?

I'm 45. And when would you want to retire?

Um at the latest I would say 55. And you're

you're able to do that as far as actual nest egg retirement accounts all of that.

Um well, currently I do have about 50k

in my high-yield savings and 40k in my high-yield savings. I have total retirement [clears throat] accounts and brokerage like HSA and Roth. I have 256 I believe and I also have a pension plan with my current employer.

Okay. And you're saying between all of that and me investing for the next decade, I should be able to make this whole plan work.

That's what I was thinking. And not having a house payment at all. And then you can invest a portion of whatever that house payment was. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that plan. The only encouragement I would give you is to retire to something instead of from something. Right now it feels like you're you're running and it's a great goal cuz you want to be closer to your husband. But I wouldn't also like work a job that I hate and toil over it for the next decade or whatever.

Do you enjoy what you do?

I do. Okay. I do. So that's another thing.

It's like when I retire, I don't know if I'll be able to not do anything. No, don't do You're too valuable to the world. We want We need you We need you out there. What likely will happen, you'll take a month vacation and then be bored and be like I need to do something with some meaning and purpose. I'm going to go start an encore career or your own business or consult or something.

>> down to halftime with your current employer. Retire and have them bring you on as a 1099. Like there's a million different things and who knows what the world will look like in five years or 10 years or whatever. But I I personally, George tell me if I'm wrong, I love Maria not having a house note in three years.

Okay. I'm a big fan of that.

I love it. We We paid ours in like 26 months. And now it was a very modest townhome.

We had a huge down payment. So it wasn't like I mean, we we went hard, but we were young, no kids and we went huh, what's stopping us? We were aligned on the goal and I I I look back with no regrets. So I don't think you will either. We were just kind of gut checking to make sure that you weren't going to burn out and fizzle out because your life was unsustainable.

Okay. Do you think with my numbers and what I have so far in retirement that I would be sustainable for me to be able to do that or I wouldn't be able to tell you on a on a radio call. I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and you can lay out all the numbers and what your current investment rate is and they have the most high-tech software where they can plug it all in and show you exactly what will be true and what kind of life you can live and when. And so jump on ramseysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro and and lay it out with a pro.

Um and you can use our investment calculator and ballpark some of this, but there's so many variables that you forget about like health care. Well, that's going to cost a pretty penny when it's not through your employer. Especially before you can access Medicare at 65. So that's a whole another wrench in the plan.

And then what kind of lifestyle you want to have in retirement? Are you going to live real simple or do you want to go crazy? And you know, they found what happens in retirement is it's kind of a smile shape.

And so at first your spending actually goes up.

It's a little dimple there. And then what happens is over time your spending actually goes down.

As you kind of settle in, you travel less, less vacations, less excitement and then as you near the end of your life, the expenses ramp back up.

As you enter, you know, health care, long-term care costs and all of that.

And so it's not a straight line where you go, well, can I live off five grand a year for the rest of my life? I wish it were that simple, but life is more complicated and that's where a pro can really help you unpack all of all of those variables. Thank you so much for the call. It's exciting to be debt free in California before you're 50? That's a miracle. JR is in Atlanta. JR, how can we help you?

It's a sad ending, JR. Are you here?

Yes, I'm here. I'm here. >> There we go. Okay, get right to your question. We're up against the clock.

Yeah, so I'm 24. I'm going through college and I'm trying to earn a degree that'll make me the most amount of money in the quickest time frame. I don't enjoy the field I'm currently in, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after. Is this the right mentality? Yikes. No, it's backwards.

Okay. Okay, so Now here's the thing. I I don't We don't need to conflate the two.

I think you can hustle and work really hard at something you love and that is the recipe.

Cuz you'll never get bored of that. So I would not do something I hate and get a degree just cuz I think it will pay well. You meet a lot of those people.

They're not happy. Miserable billionaires. And they never go, well, at least now I can do whatever I want.

I've never met someone who said that.

Okay, so here's my counter to that, right? Like so my counter to that is is that you might say let's say I have a passion in you know, art creation. I like to paint or whatever, right? You know, you know, to be honest, you know, that's not starting the most, you know, paying field. So So my mentality and honestly my advice that I give most other people is that, you know, screw, you know, what you enjoy per se if it's not making money and just, you know, go to school for something that's paying.

Like for example, I'm about to get my degree in December for software uh

engineering. Right now I'm a software engineer team lead and you know, I you know, I don't per se enjoy the job, but

but you know, in terms of financial like I'm I'm I'm I'm happy. So I'm going to use the money later on, you know, to then fund, you know, whatever I enjoy.

The My pushback would just be this simply this.

A, you're right. There's a reality and I tell everybody in their 20s just be quiet and grind it. Go grind it, right?

But grind it towards the person you want to become.

And so there is a big difference between I just want to be a painter and I don't make any money and I'm a person who's creative. I help create beauty in the world. I help people create homes. I'm an architect. I don't love like architect isn't my first love, but it allows me to be creative and when I get home, I get my easel out and I paint.

You know what I'm saying? There's a big difference. It like work really hard grinding it out. Of course that's part of it. I'm glad you have that ethos, but become the person you want to become cuz man, I know a lot of miserable lonely wealthy people and I wouldn't trade places with them for anything. I'd reverse it if I were you, man. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and [music] that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 235. There’s Hope on the Other Side of Your Worst Case Scenario | November 26, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Open phones at88255225.

You jump in and we will talk about your life and your money. Heather is with us

in Nashville. Hi Heather. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um well, first of all, thank you so much for taking my call. Um my my husband and

I are in Sorry. um we're in way over our

heads and so I'm just uh I'm just

looking for some help. Um we are about

1.3 million in debt. Um that's with uh

two businesses, a house loan, a car loan, credit cards, and uh back taxes.

>> Okay. Pretty scary. How old are you guys? >> Uh we're both 28.

>> How long you been married? Uh, six years. >> Okay. All right. Cool. So, um, how much

do you owe on your home?

>> Uh, about 48,000.

>> Okay. And what's it worth?

>> It's from from last we had evaluated

about uh 250.

>> Okay. >> And what do you what do you owe on your cars?

>> 17. >> Okay.

This is starting to scare me. And um

what um what do you owe in taxes?

>> Uh 30,000.

>> Good. Okay. I'm a little less scared than I was a minute ago. And that means we have a whole bunch of business debt.

>> Mhm. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Like $1.2 million worth.

>> Yes, sir. >> What in the world? On what?

>> Uh well, so we got into business. My

husband was fired from his job uh what

is it four years ago.

>> Um and found odd jobs but was never able

to find like stable uh full-time work.

>> Um so we ended up starting like a summer camp um in 2022.

Um but built that with credit card debt.

>> Um and then to

it's going to sound really stupid, I know. to make that stable. We bought um

it wasn't a business sale, it was an asset sale. We bought basically um another business's assets um for the

1.2.

>> Oh, so the business the one business, not the summer camp. The summer camp has how much credit card debt?

>> That's the one that's got about it's it's still got about like 15,000 out of the the credit card debt.

>> Okay. I didn't get credit cards earlier.

I just got cars and house earlier. Okay.

So, the credit card debt totals how much? >> It's about 19. So, 4,000 of ours.

>> So, you have one business. That's the problem. >> Yes. >> Okay. And you you were able to secure a loan as unemployed people with a summer camp for 1.2 million. Why? Who? Who is

dumb enough to make this loan?

Well, um I mean the summer camp was

doing extremely well. Um

>> no, but the the loan was not on the camp, was it?

>> No, sir. >> You don't own the land on the camp, do you? >> No, sir. >> Okay. So, basically, you're renting a piece of ground in the summer, running a camp on it, and you make what kind of income on that?

>> Uh that makes about 200,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. And the business that you purchased, what was the assets?

>> Um, it's it's rentals. It's a vet rental. So, it's like staging and life and audio visual and um inflatables and

all that kind of stuff. >> All the fun stuff for the camp.

>> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you borrowed 1.2 who who

loaned you $1.2 million for that?

>> The SBA. >> I bet they did. I bet they did. Is the camp still operational?

>> Yes, ma'am. We we still do that every year. >> Is there a way that you can add things

for the other seasons to earn? >> That's >> quadruple the amount, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, that's that's what we've been trying to do. Um it's just we've um

I mean y'all know like we've hit a point in the economy where people are trying to figure out other solutions for uh fun stuff or child care, you know, so they're trying not to spend as much. So uh we kind of are stuck with the businesses that everybody's trying to avoid.

>> Not really true, but um in the situation as you all are in being so overwhelmed, I can see how you could start to think that. Um because when nothing goes right, nothing goes right. When when life looks like a country song, it just looks like a country song. Lots of people still renting kids stuff all over the place.

>> Absolutely. >> The economy is quite booming in some areas. But um >> so no, you just you just the economics at your house suck. And so I'm so sorry, honey.

It's so scary. So scary. Okay.

there any possibility of selling the

first the last business that you bought for anywhere near what you owe on it?

>> No, sir. No. >> How do you know?

>> Uh because the more it was like the layers of an onion, the more we peeled back, the more we found the deception

>> that you had overpaid.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> By how much?

>> Uh by by $400,000.

Mhm. >> Okay. >> Okay.

>> Can I How much does this cost you every month to pay the minimums on those

>> uh for the business? >> Mhm. >> We have it's we're operating at a cost of 50,000 a month.

>> And you're not making that?

>> I mean, some months we are like we're some months we are. >> Yeah. >> We're But it's it's both of our businesses are very seasonal.

>> Okay. I don't know. Um, here's the first

thing. I I was your age, been married the distance of time when we went broke and lost everything and ended up bankrupt. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the first thing I want to tell you is the worst case scenario is you

lose the business, you lose the camp, and you start your lives fresh after a bankruptcy, and you hold on to each other, and you hold on to Jesus, and you hold on to your marriage.

>> Yeah. >> And so what? Okay. Lots of people have

gone broke. That's the worstc case scenario. So, I want you two to sit down tonight and accept that emotionally and look at each other and hold hands and say, "We got this together, no matter what this is." Cuz I don't right now see how you're getting out of this. But here's an idea. Okay.

>> Okay. >> I would sell it for whatever you can get for it. If you can get 800,000 for it, take it.

>> Okay. >> And go to the SBA and do a short sale.

hire an attorney and tell the SBA, you get nothing, honey, if you don't take this 800 cuz I'm walking and you're going to own a blow up inflatable.

>> Okay? >> And the SBA is not not in the inflatable business. And so you go to the bank and you say, "We're going to do a short sale on this business because we got screwed.

You participated in it because you idiots loaned us the money." And they are idiots. Um,

anybody that made this loan should be just lined up and shot. Oh my god, this

is ridiculous. So, uh, cuz they they've

screwed you in the process. So, yeah, I'm going to short sell the business. If you can't short sell it, sign a note for the difference and scratch your way through that 400k making 200 and something and you can bust through these other little debts and pay the stinking IRS. They're not bankruptible. Before you pay anybody else, you pay the KGB. I mean the IRS.

Okay? They're first on the list. So hang on. We're going to set you up with one of our coaches and see if we can get you some better advice than you got here cuz I'm a little short on time and I had to rush that. I'm so sorry.

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The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave

to the lender.

You don't think that's true? You talked to our last caller. She turned on when I

turned on her phone on put her on the air, she started crying.

$1.2 million in debt

on blow up jump houses.

Good God. Wow.

And then some of you want to call me up and tell me how that is how you go into business. Um because you have an idea

that's no one's ever done before, like fried pickles. Well, there's a reason.

There's a reason no one's done it before. So

yeah, the more debt you're in, the more risk you take and the more you understand the slavery aspect. And she's sitting there with

some basic income coming in and nowhere near enough to even service the debt, much less uh everything else. And she can see the writing on the wall that it's going I mean I don't know if that kid makes it or not. Uh, well, they'll make it, but I don't know if they make it without bankrupting. I hope they can.

If they sell it and they can claw if they sold it, they claw their way through the 400,000 >> making 200,000. They can do that and they clean up the other 100,000. That's $500,000 in debt making 200 plus. You can do that.

That's very doable. But >> my thing is the fact that somebody lent them the money and that when you're that young, you do you think that if somebody will give you the money, that means you're good for it.

>> You know. >> Yeah. But I mean when you're first starting at a lot of things you do dumb things. I mean it's like people think if you have checks left there's check money in the checking account. That's right. That's right. >> You know. So um then u of course no one

even knows what a check is anymore. That joke doesn't land anymore.

>> But the uh um yeah >> uh it's yeah you've got a responsibility

to not to not get yourself in these kinds of things. And here's the thing.

He lost his job. They run the summer camp. everything's going good and

then there was some kind of a desperation or a greed thing that kicked in that blinds you to doing a deal that's that dumb. >> Mhm. >> Because that deal by any measure is dumb. >> There's I mean I didn't say the people are dumb. I've done dumber. I I was $4 million in debt. $3 million in debt. So they only did1 million. So I've got a PhD in DUMB. So uh I've done dumb

things. That does not make me dumb. Um, I did them for dumb reasons. They did this for a dumb reason.

And oh my goodness, folks. So, my point is the teachable moment when you listen to the show, you Yeah, you can just get entertained and go that's ridiculous and that's crazy and how sad for those people or how weird is that whole thing and you can kind of get that, you know, Jerry Springer effect off the show if you want or you could actually try to learn something, >> right? >> What's the lesson in that?

his poor little wife is so scared she can't breathe.

>> And that's exactly how Sharon Ramsey sounded at 28 years old. >> Oh yeah. But there's another the other lesson for him and for her too cuz she was part of it is exactly what you said.

When you do something like that, Dave, you know, >> the shame, but the shame of it because you think I'm dumb. You think I'm I was

I'm stupid. Uh it's my fault we're in this. But they've got to remember going through this that >> the business plan was bad.

>> The loan was dumb.

>> The the business idea was stupid.

They're not they cannot wear that as an identity. >> The thing you need to the the takeaway for all of you listening is this. When you're in the middle of doing something like this, you've done it. I've done it. And every one of you have done it. You have a moment of sanity while you're in the middle of this going, "This doesn't feel right." >> Oh, yeah. You get that >> and you go past that moment and do it

anyway. And a 100% of the time, you knew

better. >> Every one of us.

>> Yeah. There's a proverb that says the uh the simple see trouble and move forward

>> and uh the wise avoid it and take

refuge. >> Mhm. >> And the simple are punished for it.

>> Wow. >> And uh that's exactly what that is. Because when you're doing something like this, when I did something like this, I was simple. >> Yeah. >> It was not wisdom. It was a fool.

>> But you had that moment. You had that moment. >> I was like, I I know that I know this is out of control, but I'm I can handle it.

There's an arrogance, a greed, a desperation that causes you to plow through it. And that's a simpleton.

>> It's a simpleton. It's not a wise person. >> Not biblically wise. It's a biblical fool. And um you don't want to be a

Bible fool. That's a real dumb person.

That's really dumb. And so, you know, but I've done it. I was a I every one of those things in Proverbs, it says you're a fool if you did this. I did every one of them, >> you know, and so uh that way I don't have to do them ever again. And now I can be the wise person instead on those books. So, yeah. But but it it's you know people you know when you're getting ready to sign for that brand new car that you cannot afford.

You got a $400 a month raise and you're taking out a $1,200 car payment to celebrate. >> And if you have to start rationalizing it, that's how you know >> and you know when you're doing it. You know you're sitting in the office that this doesn't feel right.

>> Your heart is your heart rate is there.

There's some your spouse is looking at you like you've lost your dad gum mind cuz you have and you try to tell them how smart you are and that we're going ahead anyway. You just don't understand cuz the way you were brought up. You sound like your mother and you go straight past it >> and straight into the dad gum fire. And man, that poor girl.

That's exactly what they did. And it's what you've done out there if you're listening to this. So don't be too quick to make fun of her and don't be too quick to make fun of me. I've done it, too.

Turn on your heel and walk out of the room. Get run away. Run away." Carl or

Jay is with us rather. Jay is in

Portland, Oregon. Hey Jay, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I am currently getting out of the army and looking to move back to Oregon.

>> Cool. Thanks for your service. You're in the army, you said, or just or the military? >> Yes, sir. >> Army. What' you What was your rank? What'd you do? >> Staff sergeant. Uh, human resources.

>> Cool. >> Yeah. >> Um, I'm currently looking to go back to Oregon and I have a basically like the job of my dreams. The only problem is is that it is located about 70 miles away from where I'm going to be living for the first year that I'm back.

>> Why? >> And so I need reliable transportation.

>> Why are you living 70 miles away from work? >> What's that? >> Why are you living 70 mi away from work?

>> Um just for the way that my child custody agreement is set up.

>> Huh. Okay. >> That's the closest you can get >> for the next year. Yes.

are you're okay.

>> I've gotten it worked out and I will be able to move closer to the job within approximately 15 minutes >> after that. >> Um so it's just for the first short little bit while I'm back. Okay. >> Um but anyways, my I'm looking to get a

new vehicle >> and I have been looking at a Toyota Corolla. >> I have talked them down from their asking price down to approximate I think

it was 23,000. Mhm.

>> Um, as of now, I do not have a vehicle.

I sold my vehicle that I had out here, and with the amount that I'd be putting down, I'd be able to afford it.

>> How much money within the next year?

>> Sorry. >> How much money do you have?

>> Uh, about$7,000. And between that amount, I will have my Baby Step 2 completed >> other than the car loan. >> Then why would So, you're going backwards. >> I mean, you you have $7,000 in cash.

Yes. >> That's all you have today. What does baby step two completed? Come in.

>> You're already at baby step two. >> I'll have all my debt. I'll have all of my debt. >> Have all It's not all paid yet.

>> No. >> Well, how much debt do you have now?

>> Um I have the remainder of the money for

my divorce >> to to pay off and it's about 3,000.

>> Okay. So, you have $10,000

>> today. >> I have No, I I have $3,000 left of debt.

You have $7,000 saved and $3,000 of debt. So, you have $4,000 to your name.

Correct. >> Yes. Okay. Oh, >> okay. I I would not go into debt to do this. You You're going backwards. Buy a $4,000 car >> and then save up some more. And if you want to trade it in to get a little bit more dependable. If it becomes a problem, you can do that. But don't go back into debt when you're spending all this effort getting out of debt. You can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it.

>> Yeah. Can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom. So, yeah. I I you know, you're going to go buy it, though. I kind of think we can talk you out of it in 30 seconds. But no, there's no chance. I'll ride a bicycle before I get a freaking car payment again.

>> Take the bus.

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Not in all states. >> All righty. Today's question comes from Jesse in Texas. They say, "I'm 27, make

about 100,000 a year. I have 18,000 in

student loans, no other debt, and have 25,000 in savings. My old car died and I

need to replace it. I'm nervous about draining most of my savings to pay cash for a car because I've seen my parents make big purchases that sent them into decades of struggle. So, I'm wondering if I should get a car loan that's in my budget and pay down excessively over the

years. I want to make the choice right.

I want to make the right choice. What should I do? Um, okay. First off, you've

got a great income. Yeah, you've got the 18,000 in student loans, no other debt, 25,000 in savings. You have the money to

do this in cash. So, I would do it. What I'm really focused on is the part where

they're afraid of draining the savings and the part where they're comparing this purchase to something their parents did, I don't know, decades ago that

caused ruin in their life.

>> Now, if you paid cash for a car, it did not cause them to struggle for decades.

>> No. Going into put them in the car payment that caused them to struggle for decades. >> Yeah. This is >> a cycle of always borrowing every time I want something and I like my savings more than I like >> Yeah. >> You know, >> that's one of those things you kind of have to play out and ask yourself like what's really going on here? Because when I see stuff like this, Dave, this is just fear operating unchecked in the

background. And you don't even know what

it's based off of. It's very like it's very vague. It's very I'm afraid I'm going to ruin everything. I'm afraid I'm going to ruin my life. My parents ruined their life. But there's no real clear detail. And when that's the case, it's

very hard to track it down and find out, okay, like what what am I act what's actually going on? So, if I were them, I would look at this and say, okay, uh what is it? If you're really afraid that you're going to your life is going to turn into your parents' life, write like play it out. What actually did they do?

Because what you're probably going to find is what Dave said. They went into debt >> and this caused a domino effect of events. And that doesn't have to be the case with you. Um, and then I look at this part where he says, "I'm nervous about draining most of my savings to pay cash." I mean, we see that all the time, Dave, >> why would you Okay, start with you're driving a piece of crap now. So, why do

you need a $20,000 car to replace a piece of crap?

You don't.

So, by the way, when when someone says, "My old car died, >> Mhm. I I'm an old redneck.

>> Uh I fix the car, >> right? >> You could fix it or you could spend a little bit more and replace it. You don't have to spend the whole 25,000.

>> Take your old car, sell it for 2,000, put 4,000 with it, and buy $6,000 car and then go pay off your student loans.

>> Mhm. >> And you're debtree with a $6,000 car.

Now save like crazy. Get your emergency fund in place properly done. Now start

saving like crazy and move up in car.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> But drive a $6,000 car for a year.

making 100,000 with no payments in the world.

>> I love that. I love that. But okay, you you gave the number side.

>> I'm going to give the emotional side of that >> because that's really in your book. What what no one tells you about money is

that you have to not only crunch the numbers, but you have to deal with this person in your mirror who's misbehaving.

>> Cuz a person in his mirror is going, "Oh, but I'm so scared." Yeah. >> So, he's got to go, "All right, I'm afraid. I will own that." Now, what I talk about in the book is understanding rational versus irrational fears.

>> Exactly. >> Because the the irrational ones are the very vague, oh, I'm going to ruin everything. Oh, I'm just going to be stuck on the side of the road. Oh, I'm going to repeat my parents. No, no, no, no. What are you specifically afraid of?

Because if you can't be specific, you can't solve it. Now, this guy could say, "Well, here here's what I'm afraid of, Jade. Uh, I'm afraid if I drain my my savings down to 10,000 and get a $10,000 car, I'm afraid my AC is going to break and it's going to cost 12,000. Right?

Tell me exactly what you're afraid of.

Then we can go back and we can go, well, let's play out the worst possible scenario. Worst possible scenario is this. How would we fix it? And we can give answers, Dave, to all of that. But as long as you let it float around and just be in La La Land, you're never going to do it. So do yourself the service of taking a moment and go, why is it that when Dave and Jade told me to buy this car cash, I froze up? Write it.

What is it specifically that I'm afraid of? What did my parents do specifically?

And then it's like our friend Dr. John Deloney says, you've got to the facts are your friends. >> Exactly. >> Is there anything true about this?

>> A rational fear is don't touch a hot stove. An irrational fear is I'm not buying a stove because someone might touch it. Because somebody I once knew that I heard read about in a book got burned on the stove. >> My mother my mother when she was 14 got burned on a stove. We will never have a stove in our house. >> Well, that's cray cray. I mean that's but that's the same kind of stuff. That's the way our brains little drama queen that lives in our heads.

>> Just that little drama queen does this little dance >> and then all of a sudden you're in Stupidville. >> That's right. And I mean I'm not I I'll validate the fact that it's real. We all have it and to some degree, but it can't it can only be an excuse for so long.

a good reason if you let it go around long enough becomes a bad excuse. And so you've got to look at the reason and say, "Why am I doing that? What's the reason I'm doing that? I don't want it to be an excuse for me moving forward." And you got to work through that.

And that's what we talk about in the book. >> And I'll tell you, when I hit bottom, I said this these words.

>> Never again. >> Okay. So, you're sitting here right now, Jesse. You make $100,000 a year. You have a piece of crap car and $18,000 in student loans and 25,000 in the bank.

and I don't like this feeling.

>> So do something about it, son.

Say never again. I'm going to clean up these freaking stupid student loans. I'm not going into car debt and I'm going to pile up some cash and by the end of the year I'm going to have $30,000 and no freaking payments cuz never again do I want to feel this feeling again.

>> And you know what no one tells you about money is you got to get a little pissed off at some point and go, I'm not living like this. I've had it. And that's what

you and Sam did and that's what you talk about in this book. >> I do. I talk about just being able to understand, hey, there's more to it.

Some people, I'll be honest, I'm generally the type of person who can just up and change. I get to that sick and tired of sick and tired point, but then there's those moments the the wrong thing hits you in the wrong way and it's like you feel paralyzed and you're like, why do I feel so paralyzed by this? Why am I getting so upset about this? Why am I why do I feel like I'm going backwards? Why did I push pause when I was going so quickly at one point?

>> And those are the times you got to stop and pause and go, "What's going on here?" And to his point, he's thinking about something that it wasn't even in his life. It's something his parents did. Yeah. >> That's causing him to stop. >> Dude, you're 27. You make $100,000 a year. >> Here's an idea. Stop being broke.

>> Get off your butt and fix this.

>> And that, you know, when you kind of get that own thing going inside of you, that that voice saying that stuff to yourself, Mh. >> That's when you're going to just flip this whole thing around. But right now, you're dancing around all the sides of it. Go, I'm going to touch that. Little of this, little of that, little No. Knock it in the nose, dude. Reach up and

smack the bully in the nose. You are either going to tell your money what to do or you're going to be miserable the rest of your life. Cuz money's going to tell you what to do, and other people are going to tell you what to do. And you're going to watch Instagram and figure out that other people have a better life than you cuz they lied on Instagram, you know. And so nobody has a life that looks like their Instagram life if you didn't know. I I'll just clue you in.

There's no such thing. So I was with Willie Robertson this week. He was telling me he said we were talking about television show and he goes, "No, that's that's like a show that really happened. I do reality TV. It's never really happened. It's not real. It's not real.

It doesn't happen that way in real life." >> So Oh my gosh. Okay, Jesse. So what the

prescription is >> we're going to take some of this money. no one tells you about your money is that there's an emotional side to personal finance, a psychological side, a spiritual side to personal finance.

>> That's very much about you looking you in the mirror and telling you dealing with the stuff you said to deal with. >> It's three parts. You want to change your money, you have to consider three parts. The numbers in the math, >> your behavior, and your emotions. I say it like this in the book. I say if behavior is the car, behavior is the vehicle is where you want to go. You get in it. Your behavior as a vehicle, your belief is sitting in the driver's seat.

That's the thing. Do I believe I can do it? If I believe it, I mash on the gas.

If I don't believe it, I go in reverse.

>> And your emotions are the thing that say, I'm going to keep steering it down the right track. If you get spooked, you hit a tree. If you feel good and you are managing those emotions, you go straight forward to the goal. Yep. That's how it works. >> What no one tells you about your money.

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Bo is in New York City. Hi Bo. Welcome

to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hello sir. Thank you. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Um I don't even know where to start. Um,

I I guess my overall question would be

how to handle the overwhelming stress of the holidays while we're climbing out of debt and still trying to

be what we need to be for the children.

>> What's the overwhelming stress? Buying gifts?

>> Yeah. >> How old are the children? >> When there's when there's literally nothing. >> Well, we'll get to why is there nothing, but how how many children?

Four. >> Four. And what are their ages?

>> Uh 15, 11, 10, and seven.

>> Okay. Tell me why there's nothing.

>> Uh just not enough. There's not nothing, but there's not enough at the end.

There's not anything extra. There's >> paycheck to paycheck.

>> Hour to hour.

>> Okay. Okay. What are you earning >> at this point?

>> Four jobs right now. Um, >> you have four jobs. >> 20 a year. >> Okay. Yeah. You yourself have four jobs.

>> Well, one full-time job and then three like gigs. Amazon, catering, flex,

>> and that equals 120 a year.

>> About. Yeah. >> What's your main job?

>> Um, managing a small grocery store.

>> Okay. That was mine that I sold to them

last year. >> Did they give you money for it or you just got out?

>> They gave me a good chunk of

help toward the debt. >> How much? >> There's still some left over.

>> Um, on paper, >> yeah, >> 200,000, but I owed about 240.

>> So, there's 40,000 left of business debt

>> pretty much. Yeah, there's other debt local SBA loan.

>> There's personal debt, there's school loan debt, there's >> it's a mass

>> What's that? >> What do you make at the grocery store?

>> That's a hundred. >> Okay. >> Okay. Tell me. So, there's a 40,000 SBA loan. Tell me the student loans.

>> Um, all different ones, but between my wife and I close to 30.

>> Mhm. Tell me about the personal loans.

>> Not loans, credit cards that we took out in our own names. >> Okay. >> To help the business in the last year, you know. >> How much is that? >> Uh

I if I had to guess, it'd be 30 to 40.

I'm so sorry. I called on a whim. I'm listening to the podcast. >> I got you. I got you.

>> But 30 to 40. I mean, we haven't

>> How much we haven't >> How much do you own your cars? >> Taking anymore. I will say that.

>> How much do you owe on your car? >> Um >> I know you're gonna hate that, but we have one car that we owe about 13,000 on. It's a 2018 4Runner.

>> Um and then I take your advice and I went and I bought a HOD.

>> Mhm. >> And it blew up. So I had to buy another HD and it broke down. So now I'm on my third HD, which is a 200,000 miles 200

2009 Silverado that you paid cash for.

Yeah. And it spends more time at the mechanic than it does in the driveway.

So I think I spend less on the 4Runner

over the past two years.

>> Well, I chalk that up to I chalk that up to your You might not be know how to select a great older car. Yeah, >> that's what I chock that up to.

>> One of those Astro vans that that your wife drove.

>> So $123,000 of debt.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 43. Just turned 43.

All right. So, here's the thing, okay?

You live in one of the most expensive

cities >> in the world to live in.

>> Okay. And you can't afford to live there, can you?

I think I think you need a change of scenery.

>> I know. Well, there's a problem that

legally can't yet.

>> Is this custody? What is this?

>> That was vague. What do you mean?

>> Yeah. Um, my oldest son is not my own

son. >> Mhm.

>> And he's, you know, we're tied here to the father. >> Mhm. So, okay, then let's talk let's

still talk living situation because >> well, we have it. We live in a beautiful, beautiful area that we don't deserve to live in. >> We pay less in rent

>> than you would think you'd pay for a basement apartment. >> What do you pay? >> We have a $2,000 a month.

>> Okay.

>> Does your wife work outside the home?

>> No, she homeschools our four kids. Mhm.

>> We might need to change that.

>> I know. I know. It's It's kind of hard to bring that up when >> Yeah. But let's let's let's play, >> but let's let's stop for a minute.

>> Hey, Bo. >> Listen. >> Yeah. >> Something's got to change, dude.

>> You're going to have to decide what it is. >> Not even any more hours in the day for >> No, you you you can't work anymore. You got no emotion left in your gas tank.

I'm talking to a guy who can't even form a sentence cuz you're completely exhausted.

Something's got to change. You're going to have to change something. You're carrying all of this. You're the plates spinning this dude I've talked to and I don't know when. >> And these plates are crashing all around you and you're scared to death.

>> And and every time we bring up you got to try something. You got to try something. You got to try something. You go can't do that.

Can't do that. Can't do that. Something's got to change. You got to change something.

You're going to have to rise up and bust something and change something. I don't know what it is, man. But I I I love you and I want you to win. And I I'm talking to a guy who's scared >> the wrong work.

>> I'm I I I think you got to move. I think you got to do something different. Your wife's going to work. Somebody's going to work.

Something's going to change. Your job changes. You get away from that grocery store that failed cuz every time you walk in there, you feel like a failure.

words. And it's you're you're if you could you need to play this back and listen to it on the podcast because you're you're you're uh you're uh defeated >> is everything that comes up. I'm already defeated. I've already lost.

I've already lost. I've already lost. And you have not lost. You you you do you're a hardworking guy.

You're managed to keep a family together in freaking New York City. >> My god. I mean, you're amazing. There's a lot of stuff you can do.

>> Your life's not over. You There is a lot of stuff my friend Bo can do that makes more money and better decisions. You are not stuck. But you are going to have to change something. There's an old thing uh when the lumberjacks in the mountains of of the Appalachians used to put the trees in the river to run them down the river to deliver them to the sawmill.

They would get stuck in the bend. When they go around the corner, there'd be a log jam. That's where that come that saying comes from. You know how they fixed it?

They'd light dynamite and throw it in the middle of it. That's how you bust up a log jam. You bust up some stuff. Now, I don't know exactly what it is in your life, but I'm going to start selling everything in sight.

Anything is on the line, and I'm going to look at the kids and go, "Kids, we're freaking broke. We're freaking broke. We got no money." So, we're going to have to figure out a a very creative Christmas this year.

Okay? So, something's going to have to change and and something's going to change because you cannot the guy I'm

talking to is not in a sustainable situation. One year from today, you cannot be saying the same exact sentences you're saying to me right now.

You cannot exist that way. It won't work. Something's going to blow. You're going to blow a gasket. Something's going to blow up in your marriage. You're going to we're going to find you in addiction. Something's going to blow up because you're just fe the stuck stuck stuck stuck stuck and just start yelling at the stuck and say, "No, I'm throwing dynamite on your butt." Now, I don't know exactly what the individual tactical thing to tell you to do is right now, except to encourage you and

say, "I think you're a whole lot better than you think you are right now." >> Mhm. I'll give you some homework. If I were you, let's I Let's send you find the work you're wired to do cuz I think you need to get on a different career path. I think grocery store what you did before is that's just hanging over your head and the longer that you work in that it's just driving you into depression.

You need a new job and you need to not have four jobs because you've been doing that for too long. I'm going to look at this homeschool situation cuz your wife needs to be able to work. You need her help >> earning income in this season.

>> Something's got to move. You decide what it is before it decides for you. That's a situation. Bust up into it, Bo. You're

better than you feel like you are. Hang on. We're going to send you finding the work you're wired to do cuz you need some new work.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host. Carl's in Chicago. Hi Carl. How are you? I am better than I deserve, I hope. How are you, too? >> Just the same, sir. How can I help?

>> How can I go about helping someone that

I truly care about without financially ruining myself in the process?

>> Who's the person and what do you need to do to help him? >> Uh, so this is um a girlfriend. Um,

we're dating for about two years. Um, we actually technically I ended things a

couple weeks ago just because of the the patterns with her her money and her finances just kept leaving me in a bind.

>> Um, and >> now she's like really in a bad spot to where she's like facing eviction and she's got a young son and I don't know what to do cuz I don't want to enable her at the same same time, you know, cuz I've tried many things until we got to this point. But, um, I just I also don't want to see her homeless either. Are you thinking about this young son more or are you thinking about like is it more about the son or is it more about her?

>> I think I think a lot I mean it's it's

got to be the son. Uh he we obviously had like a really close bond like while we were together and it's just I don't want to see a kid on the streets or like >> Well, what stops her from working? Like is there something that keeps her from being able to have a job?

>> Sort of. Uh she was working when we were together. Um early 2025 she did get sick

where I uh I took over the family finances and everything. Um and she

still has this sickness but she ended up going back to work after we had broken up. >> Um and she's had two jobs since we've

been together. And I did make her several budgets. I'm like, "Hey, this is how much you make. This is how much you work. Like this will work if you just don't overspend." It's always been >> uh 27. >> And what type of tell I mean I'm not trying to pry but what kind of sickness was it? >> Yeah. Uh stomach ulcers.

>> Okay. Okay. Um and she's smart. Yes.

>> Very. Yeah. >> So what do you perceive like just be flat out honest. If I say to you, hey level with me. Why isn't she working? Is it because she's lazy? Is it because she has a toxic trait? Like tell me why isn't she working? >> Yeah. Um, I think more so it's like she

has toxic traits um that obviously like led to our breakup too. Uh, but you know, obviously when I met her, you know, our first eight months were were great until we got into the money issues and like me having to spot her. Um, but it was just uh >> Okay. So, you were living together. Were you living in that apartment?

>> Uh, yes, for a little bit. I mean, we never like officially lived together, but I was I was over there fairly often.

>> Okay. And so you were paying you were paying the rent for a while.

>> I was Yes. I was helping her when she wasn't working. Correct. >> Yeah. And how much is the rent?

>> Uh 1050.

>> Okay. And how much does it take to get it current?

>> Uh it's like 4,000.

>> Okay. And you you've been gone for I thought you said you broke up two weeks ago. >> We did. I mean we got >> How's she four months behind if you were helping with the rent?

>> Uh I was helping with the rent until June when we broke up. And >> Oh, I thought you said you broke up two weeks ago. We started talking again, but never official. But yeah. >> Um, did she ask you for help?

>> Um, >> or are you just looking at this saying, "I need help. She needs help." >> She she hasn't help. She hasn't asked

yet. Uh, but she has before. Um, when she gets in these situations like uh just trackable money since we've met, >> does she have any does she have any money at all? >> None. No. >> Okay. So, does she have a job now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, if she was current, could she stay? >> Yes. >> And she couldn't make it going forward.

How much money do you have? >> Maybe. I've got about 7,000 in my name.

>> Okay. You can't help her. You don't have enough money. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. >> It's really sad. >> Does she have family?

>> Um, yes. I don't know the dynamic too

well. Obviously, uh, when we were together, she had a lot of family issues, too. So, I don't know if they would help willingly.

>> I just don't know. >> If I were, >> you don't have the money to help her. And if I were in your shoes, here's here's the facts. She hasn't asked you for help yet. That's thing number one.

You're kind of thinking about this and it hasn't even happened yet. I'm not even sure why you know all of this if you've been broken up. Number two, if the if let's just play this out because let's pretend they did end up on the streets. I don't think they will.

I think she's going to figure something out because the truth is she was probably existing just fine before you came into the or she was surviving. I don't know if she was doing just fine, but she was surviving before you came into the picture.

got wind of the fact that this little boy was on the street, where are you living? >> Yeah. Uh, I live on my own right now.

>> So, is there a way that you could say he can stay with me for a couple of weeks until you get on your feet?

>> I could do that. Yeah. So, there are some options here that involve you

helping if it got to the worst case scenario, but I don't like the idea of you trying to be Superman and keep any of this from happening to begin with. >> Yeah. If you had 700 grand and you wanted to write one $4,000 check to walk away from this, clean, >> dust your hands off, shake the dust off your feet, and walk away.

>> Yeah, >> that'd be okay. But you ain't got 700 grand. You got seven grand. You don't have any money. You're broke. >> And you've got debt, too, don't you? Uh, no. Luckily. >> Oh, good. Okay, that's good.

>> Yeah. >> You're not in a position financially to give up half of your net worth.

>> 4,000. Yeah. 5,000 bucks >> to do this. It's just not it's not it's not not tenable. And it's not your job either. >> Uh I mean, because within within two

miles of you, there's eight of these people. You just happen to know this one. >> True. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. And you you're just not you're not Jesus. That's his job. You can't you can't do his job for him. And so you can only do what you can do. And yeah, and so I'm with Jade. If if you find out that the little boy needs some help, you can help him.

If it was, you know, if it was a small percentage of your world, I would give her some money and then just no more ever again. And because she's going to mess it up, she's going to mess it up again. >> And he said he's already done. And here's my thing, cuz I don't want anybody to think, "Oh my gosh, J, you're screwed.

You're so mean." There's nothing wrong with her. If she was on drugs, if she was having some sort of I mean, she's got stomach ulcers, but it seems like she can work. She already has another job.

it would be enabling. I think that it would be for her somebody who's just kind of softening the fall. Okay, I don't have to work as much. Okay, he's going to be here. I think that she can do this. He said she's smart. She's capable. If she has personality issues, go see a a therapist.

>> Amen. >> That's all I'm saying. >> Amen. So it's interesting that a lot of the things that uh keep us from working, the income from

working solves >> work. >> Yeah. >> Money. >> Yeah. Money. Work creates money. And

then you don't have anywhere near the stress. And so the stomach ulcers which are a stress induced by and large thing.

>> Um I mean the reason you got stomach ulcers is you've been broke all your life because you don't maintain a job all your life. And so these are created situations. And so yeah, your your

anxiety so to speak that everybody throws that word around these days goes down. >> Your stress goes down. Your health

improves when you create some margin in your life. And there's only one way to do that and that's work.

>> Mhm. >> A lot.

And you won't die from hard work. Right before you die, you pass out. you won't die. So just working all the time just

just like a crazy person and it creates this big old pile of money and money is not everything but paid rents.

>> Paid rent is and paid electricity is and food on the table is and Christmas presents are and all those things happen. All that stuff's what money buys. Money is not important but what it buys oh the stuff it buys is really important.

All

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Alex is in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hi, Alex. How are you?

>> Good. How you doing, Dave?

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, I've gotten myself into a pretty big hole with payday loans.

>> Oo. >> Um, totaling about 3500. Um, you know,

the APRs on them are all 500% or so.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah. I I took them out because I got laid off um in August and I didn't have

a good enough credit score to get a loan to get me help with rent and everything.

And um I'm starting a new job in about three weeks. And in the meantime, I've been working uh Lyft and making about 800 or so a week. And basically all of

my money just goes to those payday loans and basic living expenses. And I just

really want to get out of this cycle.

>> What's the new job pay?

>> Uh it'll be 63 plus some bonuses, so

probably about 70.

>> That's good. >> What else can you do for the next three weeks other than lift?

That's That's the thing. I don't know. I'm already doing 10our days, five, six

days a week. Um, >> yeah. So, you're making a dollar an hour. What else can you do?

>> I don't know. I'm >> Do you have a lawn mower? Can you go cut grasses and trim hedges and rake leaves and detail cars? Can you do something like that where you can set a higher rate?

>> Yeah. So, I've been looking on Craigslist and Facebook for just general odd jobs, and the only thing that I've been able to get was I helped this guy move um move all his furniture and stuff

for like 200 bucks. >> Mhm. >> I mean, you know, it's not really the best area, but that's something that I would be qualified for.

>> Uh what about I'm just I'm spitballing with you. What about It's holidays. What about like hanging up lights? People need help hanging up lights. What about something like that? I'm just >> FedEx. You can throw boxes.

>> Mhm. >> FedEx and UPS are hiring right now

>> and they're pay and they're paying more than you're making with Lift because you're making 800 coming in, but you got gas and wear and tear on the car coming out of that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um >> if you're driving that car 10 hours a day, you're not making any money.

>> Yeah. I I thought about going and just getting a simple being a server or bartender or working at UPS or FedEx.

It's I just don't want to go through that whole process and then just leave in two weeks because keep it keep it.

Your new job doesn't work on the weekends.

>> Yeah. >> Work Saturday and Sunday.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. I I could do that. >> Yeah. >> You're going to need to >> and clean this mess up in the meantime.

The first thing you do is you buy food.

The second thing you buy is you buy electricity. The third thing you buy is rent. The fourth thing you do is pay a car payment. Only after all of your living expenses are covered do you pay anything on a payday loan. And don't you ever walk in those places again and borrow money the rest of your freaking life. Remember the pain of this and

remember the stupidity of this and the ridiculous trap that you voluntarily stepped into so you never do it again.

Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I don't ever want to pay

500%. >> Teach your children. teach your grandchildren, teach everyone's children to stay away from those scumbers. They are screwing people.

>> Yeah. Um, the other thing was I was thinking about just revoking my bank

authorization for them. So, they can't charge me anymore until I can >> Yes. >> get out of it. >> That's fine. That's fine. But, but you can stop it. That's fine. Just stop it.

Or change your bank account or close your bank account. I don't care. But the point is, you're going to have to pay them the 3500 and you're going to have to pay them a bunch of stupid interest at some point. And the more money you make, the faster that's going to happen.

And then never under any circumstances

go in there again.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I know. I I I knew it was stupid, too. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it just you you you stepped in a bear trap and guess what? It ripped your leg off. Oh my gosh. This is ridicul.

I'm so sorry. Wow. It's such a trap, though. It's such a ripoff.

Uh but yeah, you just have to be one of those guys who goes, "Yeah, back then when I was that, Alex, I did that and I won't ever do that one again." >> And um I I got a lot of those in my life, Alex. A lot of stuff that I used to do that I don't do anymore. And it's caused me to have money and it's caused me to have a better life and a better walk with Jesus and everything else cuz I don't do the stuff I used to do, the other version of Dave, right?

And so it it changed everything. And that's where you are.

And you're on your way. You're going to clear this up. But the faster and the more you work, the faster you create income and the more income you create over the next uh four months, the faster this thing goes away and becomes a memory of that dumb thing I did a long time ago back in you'll tell your grandkids back in August of 25.

I was over there to bait. You know, you could tell the grandkid story, right?

And go that I did that stupid stuff, son. You stay out of them places. You'll be that grandpa, right? And that's the grandpa you want to be. the not the one that's still living broke. >> The thing is though, what I keep thinking about when I hear his call is he had been on the edge >> before. >> Before and >> he had no margin when you get laid off.

>> No margin. And all it took was one little flick and then all the dominoes fell down. >> Yep. >> And somebody listening is >> that's on the edge.

>> Like there's a whole bunch of somebody's listen better. >> Buckle down right now. Otherwise, you're

going to get laid off at the Because they don't they don't they don't come in and tell you like seven months from now we're going to lay you off. >> They come in and tell you seven minutes from now you're leaving the building.

>> Mhm. And that's Yep.

>> Because corporate America has one job and it's piss on their employees and so that's their only job and they're really good at it. So, you know, this is what happens. So, now you've got to build a

margin of an emergency fund and no debt payments. You got $30,000 in the bank and no payments and they lay you off.

You look at them and go, "What's the severance?" You got $30,000 in credit card debt and no money.

>> And they lay you off, you go, "Oh crap, I am heading down to the payday loan place." >> You're at the mercy of whatever desperate thing you do next. Yeah.

>> Sarah's in South Dakota. Hi, Sarah.

What's up?

>> Sarah >> is gone. >> Locked out. She dropped out.

>> Scary question. >> You scared her off. question. Brian is in Minneapolis. Hi,

Brian. How are you?

>> Uh, good morning or good afternoon, Mr.

Ramsey and Jade. >> Hey, >> I'm doing well. Uh, question for you guys, which I'm glad I have male and a female. Uh, I'm engaged. I'm 45 years

old. My fiance does not quite know what

my net worth is. How do I

tell her fully and that I my lawyer says I pretty much have to have a prenup?

>> Well, your lawyer is not in charge of your life.

>> Yeah. No, I gave uh >> number one, lawyers lawyers give advice.

They don't tell me what to do and then I decide if a they want them to be my lawyer anymore and b if I'm going to take their advice. They don't get to tell me I have to do something. That's not how you're not the boss of me now.

So, how in the world do you get engaged and have never told her? You should have told her before you got engaged.

>> I I agree. She knows I'm worth a decent

amount. She just doesn't know the full amount. >> What is the full amount?

>> Close to 20 million.

>> Wow. >> Close to 20 million. That's a little vague. >> Did you say close to 20 million?

>> Just shy of the last time I had my uh financials audited. And you're telling me there's no signs that you're a 20 millionaire?

>> Uh, she knows I'm a millionaire, but she doesn't quite know that. No, I'm I live

very frugal. Lived in the same house since 2005. Drive a vehicle from 2011.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, you said you you said your net worth is close to 20 million. Did I mishar you? >> Mhm. >> No, you did not mishar me.

>> You said 12 to I thought I heard you say 12. >> Close to 20. >> Okay. So I did miss.

>> Okay. So let's call let's call 600,000.

>> What do you what do you make a year?

>> Uh 700ish thousand.

>> Does she know that?

>> She knows I make a good amount. Yeah.

>> Well, >> she doesn't know that.

>> No. >> How long have you been together?

>> Three years. >> How long have you been engaged?

>> Uh eight months. So, you were Can I Can I ask a clear question? For that long of a period of time, that means you were intentionally keeping it from her. There was a a point that came. I'm not going to tell her this.

>> Yes. And no. >> And my question for you is why?

>> Uh I was in a relationship once where I

found out it started because of the money. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> I guess I never wanted to have >> Hang on. We're going to talk about this after the break cuz it's a good question. I appreciate you calling in.

Hang on.

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We're talking with Brian in Minneapolis.

Jade Waw is my co-host. Brian has a net worth of around 20 million. He's been engaged for eight months and has not

told her yet the amount of his wealth.

He makes 700,000 a year and she doesn't know exactly how much. She knows he has a lot, makes a lot, but that's all and not everything. And that's about how far we got in the conversation. He's asking how to let her know now and to talk to her about a prenup. So, let me backtrack

for a second. So, the reason you've not disclosed this to her is because you got you had someone before that was after you and you realized they were only after you for your money, right?

>> Yeah, you could sum it up to that. And so, and she How do you know this lady's not?

>> She's I I can say one of we did have a talk about debt because obviously I'm not a fan of it. And she did at one time have some debt and I went >> How do you know she's not after your money?

Uh because she never asked for anything.

She she tried to pay me back. Tried to give me money every month when I did that. And I obviously said, "I don't want it. Please." >> Oh, she gave you gave her some money.

>> I I did pay off her debt. She had debt and I I did pay it off. How much?

>> I looked at it that >> uh looks like 40,000.

>> So I wouldn't It was some student loans, uh car, and she had unfortunately a payday loan like you just talked But for someone who's so worried about her not finding out that you have wealth cuz she might be after you for your money. You sure did write a $40,000 check.

>> That's inconsistent.

>> Yeah. I I look at that as I've been with

her, you know, for years and if it got backed up that I got burnt on it. Hey, I got >> How early into the relationship did you pay off her debt?

>> Uh two years.

>> Okay. >> So not really early. >> Mhm. >> No. in it. Um, and I looked at it that if she left me, I >> And did she ask? Did she ask? She did not ask. Okay. You did say that. Pay it back. >> All right. So, okay. Here's the thing.

Um,

>> what makes you what makes you what makes And so just the fact that she's never asked you for anything and offered to pay that back makes her makes you think she's not after your money.

>> Yeah. I I I just think I would have seen it in the in the course of three years that we've been together that she she never came to me from >> How do you react to this statement? How do you react to this statement?

>> You should have told her before you

asked her to marry you.

>> Agreed. >> Okay. All right.

>> I don't >> because you shouldn't ask someone to marry you that you can't be honest with and transparent with that you don't trust.

>> Yeah. You know, I I I fully know I'm in the wrong. >> Okay. Uh, I mean, >> so I think the I think the conversation starts with that. I owe you an apology.

>> We should have talked in detail about our finances before we got engaged and I

didn't do that because I was afraid because of this other person, the way I was treated before. I don't think you're that person and I'm didn't know how to handle this and so I'm sorry. Now I've got to do something that I should have done eight months ago and that's unpack for you what I have.

>> Yeah. No, I I I I I truly agree. I just

>> I think that I think that's the way you have the conversation and you have it.

You have 24 hours, my man.

>> Okay. >> No more dreading this. No more thinking about it. This is cost. You can't sleep.

You're fretting about this. You're worried about this. >> Bob, second quick question then. Uh I actually won't see her. We actually uh I'm an American and she's a Canadian so I travel back and forth so I won't see her for actually a couple weeks.

>> Well then wait till you see her. This is in personace. >> Yeah. This is in person. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And I we do not recommend prenups except in situations where there's extreme difference >> in their net worth. And there's extreme difference here. So, I do recommend a prenup.

>> Okay? >> I recommend it. I I'm not your lawyer. I didn't tell you you have to do it.

>> But and let me tell you, if you think that you need a prenup

to protect you from her, don't get married.

>> Yeah. I I I don't believe that for one second. >> The only reason you're getting a prenup is to protect you from her crazy relatives.

>> And she has one. >> Yeah. Well, everybody does. And if you think they don't, then that means it's you.

>> No.

>> So, >> all right. So, when you get next time you're in person, we sit down and you start with I an apology that you should

have trusted her enough to unpack this before you ask for her hand.

Okay. >> And then you tell her what's going on and what we're doing. And um you know, a

financial advisor has suggested we discuss have has recommended we have a prenup to protect us. So you can look at your family and say, "I don't have anything. He handles it all." And um and

you come into the you go out of the marriage with what you came into the marriage with and basic prenup stuff.

Okay.

>> Sounds sounds good. >> Yeah. Very interesting.

>> Thanks for the call. Thank you so much. >> Appreciate it. >> Yep. Have a great day. >> You too. So, Jade, um John Deloney posed an interesting question to me the other day and it'll come up again in the next few months because he's doing some writing about it.

>> He read uh a book, I guess it was, or talked to an expert somewhere that said, um you know, we tell people get a will.

>> Mhm. >> Right. Why? Because if you don't get a will, the law tells you and the the court system tells you what what's going to happen.

>> That's right. That's right. That's right. And this guy's argument to get a prenup was so intriguing. We had a great

discussion about it the other day on the plane. Um this guy's argument was you

have a prenup because the law is there.

>> The law the judge and the court's going to just like with a will. They're going to tell you what's going to happen.

>> But with a prenupide >> you you decide what's going to happen.

And I've been so anti- prenup over the years that that created a really interesting discussion. I'm still not going to tell you to get a prenup.

>> But it did it did make me it did frame it >> in a way I had never thought about it before, >> which is you can preerdecide while you're in your right mind.

>> Yeah. Well, just like you do with a will >> without spite, without anger, without >> just like you do with a will. And then the judge doesn't tell you. The judge has to go along with what the prenup says. >> Judges, you know, if the prenup's properly written, it can't be the courts courts can't undo it. Mhm. Mhm.

>> And so, um, I mean, by and large, there's some movie scenes that tell you, but I mean, it's, >> um, >> I think of that one with Clooney that's hilarious, but, um, anyway, the, uh, uh,

>> yeah. Yeah. It, you predecide what's going to happen. Otherwise, the law decides and the judge decides. That's the same thing we tell people to do with the will. >> Now, the difference is you're going to die >> and you might not get divorced. >> That's facts. That's facts. Yeah. Yeah.

>> There's a difference there. And uh you know while dying while dying is a spiritual decision so is divorce.

>> I think the divorce thing it's like that for both. It's almost like what you're going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. >> Exactly. That's the problem. You're planning something and so you're aiming at it unintentionally. You spoke it.

>> Yes. Cuz everybody dies. Everybody doesn't have to get divorced. Yeah. I get it. >> Exactly. Yeah. So that that's it's just an interesting I had never heard it framed that way and it made me stop and think about prenups. I was a little lighter, a little calmer about it cuz I'm real anti- prenup. I I >> We had one lady call here on the show many years ago said her fiance wanted to get a prenup because he had a 67

>> vintage Mustang.

And I'm like, don't marry this guy. He loves his car more than you.

>> Run, girl. Run. And so, you know, that

that's the kind of crap I associate with prenups, right? Um, but the idea that two people >> if you got 20 million bucks and you know that's a lot. >> But even the idea that two people could sit down and say, "Hey, we're getting married. Let's do some some planning and

if you decided together, here's in the

unlikely event." It's like it's like when you ride a plane and they go through the safety precautions. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> In the unlikely event of a water landing, a divorce landing, here's what we're going to do.

Yeah. >> And then it's like you've done it before. There's anger. Before there I don't know.

I It's an interesting conversation for sure. >> Wow. >> I I I I still not a fan. I'm still not going to tell you to do it, but it did I will I'm admitting here on the air that it made me stop and think about it.

I'm thinking about it now.

>> As I'm thinking about it though, I'm also thinking if Sam Warshaw came to me with this conversation, I'd be like, >> "Yeah, >> the door is that way. >> We'd be done, bud. We'd be done, man." >> Yeah, >> we'd be done. Yeah. So yeah. So there you have it. That's the other thing is u I mean Sharon and I got married at 22 years old. I had a $112.

>> Yes. >> I mean it I I I couldn't even have paid to have the prenup done, >> right? >> Much less thought about. I needed one.

>> Uh-huh. And I had negative dollars.

>> I was just so happy to be here, you know? That's all. I'm just happy to be here.

>> Wow.

Heat. Hey, Heat.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price.

No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Countdown to Christmas is on. We got a ton of great deals for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Plus, we're dropping special one-day sales on Black Friday and Cyber Monday. We're talking hard coverver books, audiobooks, assessments, some with as low as $3.99.

Don't miss these deals. Go to ramissysolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes in the description. We would love to have you. All right, Jennifer is on a Zoom call with us in California. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> I am well. How are you? Thank you so much for having me, you guys. Thank you.

>> Our honor. How can we help you today?

>> Um, this is a hard question. I need help around my heart because my heart is not right. I'm having resentment and I'm a Christian. I don't believe that that is what we need to do.

>> Uh, I married a wonderful man, but now we are uh continuing to pay his ex-wife's child support. She went back for more and I am angry and resentful

and it's we're snapping at each other more and I'm I took Jade's advice. Jade taught me this where she said fight the problem, not fight each other. Right.

So, I'm like, okay, we're going to fight the problem. But, um but it's affecting everything. It's affecting even me parenting his kids and it's just affecting everything. >> The amount the amount of it or the the him having to deal with her?

I think all of it because that he's because we we do everything together, right? So, it's not just him. That actually triggers me. I love that you said that too. Like that he's going through it and I'm like, I'm going through it too, my love. It's my money as well and he just got a layoff.

>> Um, and so he his last, you know, he's going to end December and then he's he's laid off >> and mama does not make enough for our four walls. Like our four walls are it's 7,300 just to exist is $7,300

a month. >> And what do you make a month?

Mama only makes three uh 38.84.

>> And what was he making?

>> He makes uh 5060. So 5,60.

>> Okay. >> And how much how much is the child support? >> So the child support's not killing. It's 500. It's 500 right now. We go back because he's laid off. So the court knows that he's getting laid off. So we go back in February because she want she wants like the the all of it.

>> The the gun the good stuff. Um, and so thankfully they they and she she's surprised us too that she came to court and was like, "Oh, well I was laid off, too." So now we're like, "Oh, what?" Like you didn't tell us that you were laid off. We were transparent and let her know that oh gosh, you know, he received a layoff and you know, we're done in December. >> But then we found out like cuz she's remarried, but then we found out she's not remarried and she's she had a ceremony.

She's married.

shoes, I can see why this is a painoint.

I can see how it's annoying. I can especially I mean this woman's in your life whether you like it or not. If I could make this way more if I were in your shoes, I'd be picturing the child cuz the fact is if you make a human being, you got to pay for them. Period.

Like the same way you pay for money to raise your kids. That's just part of it.

So, I'd be thinking way more about the kid as much as you can. Imagine them.

Think about what that $500 is doing for them and try to keep her out of that vision as much as possible.

>> Yeah. This is not ex-wife support. This is child support, >> right? >> Yeah. That and and that that you know, and honestly, when he is working, what is the child support?

>> Uh, we don't know yet. So, because she's still he's never paid child support.

>> No, he did. Well, so he she actually was not awarded child support and alimony, which she went for the first time. She was because when he laid everything out, he paid everything already. He paid her car insurance, he paid cell phone plus all the all the kids. >> So what the court decided was just disparaging income. He got family

support. So he used to pay about 500 family support >> with the stipulation that he continues to pay everything, all after school care, dental, you know, all the things plus her car insurance and her cell phone and stuff. He still had to do that for two years. >> Okay. But that's over now. That's over now. >> So that was over. And >> you married into that though. You knew that when you got married, >> right? >> Okay. Let me Let me So that was how much total in a month that he was paying out.

>> See? So she he Oh gosh. To total all the bills. I don't know. All the bills were like all the medical, her car insurance, whatever. Probably. >> Okay. So when you go back, it's not going to be any of that. It's going to just be a percentage of his income.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good. >> In February, it'll be whatever. That's really good because really what that does is it disconnects her from misbehaving and wanting it paid for.

>> Okay? She just gets a fixed amount of his income regardless. Uh but she doesn't get it anyway. Kiddo gets it to J. >> So we're paying this for this child. And you knew this when you came in. It's not his fault. It's not your fault. And it's not even benefiting the lady, the the the ex-wife. Um it's just benefiting the

kid. Mhm. >> And truthfully, the reason I ask how much is most of the time in most states,

the child support that is paid is not enough to raise a kid. >> Mhm. It's a very small amount.

>> Yeah. So, she he's going to pay a lot, but and it's going to be bothersome, but it's still not enough to raise a kid.

>> And so, um Yeah. Um and how old is the child? >> We have two. Well, he has two. So, he has a seven-year-old son and an 11-year-old daughter. And then I have two. >> Okay. Family of six over here.

How old are yours?

>> So, mine. So, oh my god, you guys. We're in the thick of it. We have a 7-year-old, a 10-year-old, an 11-year-old, and a 12-year-old. >> So, then this is easy for you to imagine

these kids when you write that $500 check or whatever it's going to be. It's easy for you to imagine, okay, yeah, they they go to ballet and they go to, you know, they have soccer and they have school lunch. You know what this money is going for? They need new boots, all that stuff.

That's what you you need to focus on that. And you need to get practical about this.

>> You need to focus on what is happening today and what is the benefit and just remind yourself here's why I'm doing this. I got to refocus and I think that's going to help you. >> His youngest is how old?

>> Seven. >> Okay. So you got she got 10 years 11 years. Yeah.

>> Yes. >> That's really not much in the scope of life. That's not much. And um >> and um >> it's a me problem.

I I just >> No, I'm not we're not we're not picking on you. I think I think it's normal to have the emotions that you have. You ask how to handle them and we're just suggesting we redirect them and compartmentalize them. You've uh the way you've described it with your language was it's all about her.

And Jade's point is none of it's really about her other than she's obviously a test pilot for a broom factory. Yeah.

know, there's a reason she's called the ex. And so, you know, and and so we get

that part, but that's normal dealing with exes. There's a reason they're gone. >> And so, uh >> uh but yeah, you're going to be in weddings together. Um and you'll be at other things together in the future and for the rest of your life.

Um and it'll get easier and easier. But yeah, I I I like the idea that we're getting away from paying individual expenses like her cell phone. Yes, >> that sounds kind of ridiculous and personal. >> I would I would be much more torquked about that if I were in your shoes than I would just writing a child support check.

>> Yes, that was very difficult when I first >> stupid. That was just a bad idea. Yeah, >> but that part's over. >> Yeah, it's gone.

>> That part's done and gone.

>> I have a feeling you love your husband and I have a feeling you actually love his kids. >> I do. Of course I do. So this is their this is their money.

>> Yeah. >> And you would help them because you're a good mom. >> So yeah, >> that is really helpful. Oh my gosh.

>> That's that's the right way to do it.

Yeah. You're heading in the right direction for sure there. So I'm proud of you. It's a good question. It is good. >> And I appreciate you being vulnerable and coming on the air with us and talking about it. >> It's such a human way to feel.

>> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. It's hard. I mean kiddos are kiddos and that's where we are. Thanks for calling. We appreciate you being with us. >> Fun. Wow. I like that video situation.

That's nice. >> Yeah. I mean, that's super. I mean, we get these calls in there on the air on the phone. It's anonymous right here.

Well, you just walked right >> right into her house. I like that.

>> That's a And on a very, uh, personal

intimate question. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, uh, very interesting. Very, >> that's not easy. That's not an easy situation to deal with. No, but I mean I'm, you know, I uh so I guess some advice would be for everyone out there if you're going through this, don't set up a situation where you're paying for individual bills like that >> with the ex like for God's sakes her cell phone. >> That one's that one's just whack.

>> Well, then you're in their life. You're without wanting to, you're judging how they're, you know, judging the cost, judging >> I don't I want them to be away.

>> That's the reason they're ex. Go away.

>> Yes. Way away.

>> Way away. way away. Go find an away

place to be. Yeah.

>> I don't want I don't want to know what your issues are and I actually know what they are and I don't want to know about them anymore, you know. >> And so yeah, I don't want to know about medical. I don't you know, you deal with your stuff. >> There's an idea.

That's what you signed up for when you became the ex. You deal with your stuff. And here's what the law says I have to do to take care of my baby. And I will do take care of the baby.

That's what I'm going to do.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Heat. Heat. Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Jade Wall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your

host. Albert Einstein famously said, "Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it earns it. He who doesn't pays it."

If you invest $100 a month and you got

average stock market returns for the past 100 years or so, you would hit around 12%.

$100 a month invested from age 25 to age

65 is $1,176,000.

How is it that $1,200 a month for 40

years becomes $1 million?

$1,200 a year for 40 years.

>> There you go. >> Yeah. Becomes It's called compound interest. So compound interest, uh, Buffett described it as a snowball rolling down the hill.

So a little snowball picks up a little snow the first time it comes around. The next time it comes around, it's larger and it picks up more snow. The next time it comes around, it picks up more snow. and the next time it picks up.

And that's called a mathematical geometric progression. And so compound interest shows you that interest works on a curve. It is not a straight line. So an example of that is if you took a $500,000 mortgage.

Now interest rates currently on homes for a 15-year fix is 5 a.5%. Okay?

loan, we'll call it to make it easy, on a half a million dollars, >> your payment on that 15-year fixed rate

loan would be $3,953.

If you doubled the amount of time

that you're in debt from 15 years to 30 years, you would think, if you didn't

understand compound interest, that your payment would be half.

So 15 should be double what a 30 is.

Correct. >> Well, it's not. It's only 33% more

to be in debt half 50% of the time.

>> That's right. >> Because the the compound because you're doing away with the principal and doing away with the need to pay interest. And so you pay a lot less interest and

you're pay and so your payment is only 33% more to go to a 15-year from a 30-year.

It's not it's not double. But if you don't understand how the math works, you think, oh, a 15 and a 30 is a is thing.

So, a couple of weeks ago, uh, President Donald Trump came out with this, uh, crazy idea for 50year mortgages,

to which instantaneously my friend Seth Dylan over at Babylon B does a uh, does

a photoshop of me in intensive care.

Dave Ramsey's in intensive care in critical condition after learning of 50-year mortgages. Mr. Get out of bed.

And so, and I really look pretty sick in this. And I got here's the dumbest thing, okay? All of my 65year-old and

60-year-old and 70-year-old friends sent that to me laughing >> because it's the best dad joke ever. But none none of my 25-year-old friends thought it was that funny. They didn't even get it really. It's like, I don't understand.

But I did look pretty sick in there, Seth. you. I mean, did you really you doctorred the face up and everything? >> You were slim.

You were >> like, >> the guy the guys at Babylon B I'm look I look kind of old. It's like water. I need water. >> Water.

>> Yeah. So, Babylon B is funny. They're they're friends of ours and they're always they're always pick on me, but it's good naturatured and we love them and they're great.

President Trump actually realizes, I suppose, uh, because he is a a math guy and a real estate guy, that the difference in a 50-year mortgage and a 30-year mortgage is more about

looking like he did something to help people, >> okay, >> than the math is. This is a political

stunt by President Trump if he actually knows what's going on. Otherwise, it's an ignorant stunt by President Trump. I don't know which one it is because the difference in a 50-year mortgage and a 30-year mortgage, as we just described, you would think it would be almost half, but it's only 16% less. So, your payment

on a 50-year on a half million dollar is 2,200 bucks. On a 30-year is 2,600

bucks. You save a whole $300

by going in debt an extra 20 freaking

years >> and you save $300. And this is going to fix America's housing crisis. Oh, horse crap, Trump. That's absolutely asinine.

And you know it. It's ridiculous.

I mean, come on. >> Not to And then talk about the interest.

>> I mean, this is like Joe Biden saying he's forgiving student loans when he knows he can't. Okay, it's just the same. It's political stunt. You know you can't do this. The law won't let you do it, but you're walking around strutting around acting like you did something.

You politicians. So Trump's like, "I'm going to give him a 50-year mortgage." Like, because he's got billions of dollars of mortgages on all these New York buildings, and he just loves debt.

He thinks it's awesome. He and I have disagreed on that since back in the Larry King days. I remember y'all remember Larry King. >> Oh, Larry King live of course.

>> We used to do those TV shows and they had like six people on there. Look like uh uh Brady Bunch. Look like the Brady Bunch. We're in the boxes on the Brady Bunch and Trump would be in the lefth hand bottom corner and I'm up in the other corner and I'm yelling at him about getting out of debt and he's like, "Who is this hillbilly on the thing with me?" He and that's the first time he and I ever talked was I got in a big fight with him on Larry King like 25 or 30 years ago.

around him several times, but this is an absolute bogus political stunt and he knows it. He's over laughing at you people going, "Oh, 50 years we're not going to have to pay anything. We can get a mortgage for almost nothing." Compound interest, baby. We just explained it to you.

It saves you almost nothing over a 30-year mortgage, >> 16%, but you're almost 100% more in debt. >> But talk about the fact that it's a trap in that cuz I've heard a lot of people say, "Well, I can get it. It's a great place to start and then later on I can move something else." >> Yeah, there's a great place to start to go to a payday lender, too. It's a great place to start to go to a pawn shop.

>> They're not thinking about when you when you do that, how quickly are you gaining equity? It is not gaining equity except the house goes up in value.

>> Yeah. But you're, you know, you could get an interestonly loan and it would be almost the same thing.

>> Basically, >> they had interest only loans for a while. Y'all remember those? >> That was stupid on steroids. Hello, 2008, we're calling.

>> And yeah, does anybody remember stupid on steroids? I remember it. How about a one-year adjustable rate mortgage tied to an index that already started in the hole your first day? In other words, if you had to adjust it the day you took out the mortgage, you would already be going up.

That's how all the one-year arms are set up. By the way, boys and girls, this is why it's stupid. The game is rigged. So, what you want to do is if you're going to get in the game, you want to get out as fast as possible, not plan to stay in.

So, you're not saving anything by taking out a 50-year mortgage. Sorry, President Trump.

move. You either knew it or you didn't, but now at least if when you hear this, you'll at least know. And um I was on a call with him just a few weeks ago on some other stuff. >> You told him it was done.

>> No, it wasn't out by then. It came out about 3 days after that. Um, but I I I'm not gonna, you know, he he'll hear about this or he won't. I don't, it doesn't matter.

He He's not taking Dave Ramsey's opinion anyway. I can tell you that. It's not He is not worried about what I think at all. He's not worried about what anything thinks.

But, but bottom line, boys and girls, this political move, okay?

cuts it 16%.

Don't be stupid. >> If you're interested in lowering your payment $300, just get a slightly cheaper house. >> OH, WHOA.

MIC DROP. WHOA. THIS IS WHY WE PAY HER

THE BIG money right here, boys and girls.

T is the season time of year when we talk about giving.

We're going to be doing our giving edition, the special giving edition of the Ramsey Show in December. We want to hear stories from you about how you have

given generously sometime in the past and maybe you tipped a waitress $100 or $1,000 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford it. Or maybe you bless someone in need by giving them a car. Maybe it was something other than that. We want to hear something that makes everybody be inspired to give.

Generosity is the most fun you can have with money. Maybe you've been on the receiving end and had your life changed by someone who was generous to you.

Well, we want to hear from you. Either way, go to ramseyolutions.com/ask.

Put giving in the subject line. Tell us a little bit about the story. And we do this every year at Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. It's coming up on December 18th. So, start

sending in your stories on giving today.

Let's celebrate living like no one else so later you can give like no one else.

Robin is with us in Orlando. Hi Robin.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. You're the only person I think that I want your opinion on this.

My husband wants to buy a $300,000 car

and it just puts a rock in the pit of my stomach. So my question is what is the car? >> Yeah.

>> Like a Shelby. Oh, wow. Really?

>> Oh, see, now you like it. See, that's my finance guy, Matt. I say to Matt,

Listen, it's a very cool car. But, uh, so the the question is, um, is just, you

know, how much is $300,000 in your world? What's your all's net worth?

>> Close to 20.

>> 20 what?

>> Million. >> So, you have $20 million. Okay.

>> Yes. And are you retired or does he work or >> We're retired. Uh we retired last year.

>> Okay. >> Sold the business and we are Yeah. fully retired. Plenty of investment. I mean I

>> I really have no reason to say no to this except something in me says this is absolutely ridiculous. This is the worst idea he's ever had. But I don't want to cause a problem and say that. I need somebody to tell me which direction to go.

>> I think you should say that.

And I think then I think then I think you should say that's how I feel.

>> But my brain tells me that we have the money and you've worked hard a really long time and this is a small amount of money to us. My heart doesn't understand that and my stomach definitely doesn't understand that because you remember the old days when y'all were broke and couldn't, you know, couldn't afford to go out to eat, right?

>> Oh yeah. I always took care of the money and um >> so here's the thing. I've gone through the same stuff Robin Sharon and I have and um >> you know we've got 1100 people working here. We buy the coffee for our team.

The coffee bill at Ramsay blows my

freaking mind. Okay. Because my mind

still remembers my 28-year-old self that was bankrupt and couldn't feed my kids, right? My my emotions still feel that.

My mind though knows that the company took in $300 million last year. We can probably pay the coffee bill, >> right? We can afford. So the math, the math says it's no big deal. But the emotions are remembering the past,

not the current.

And so I have to use my intellect to go it's okay to buy coffee for 1100 people because it really is a small percentage of our overall budget and overall world.

And if here's the thing here's the thing when Sharon wants to buy something expensive or Dave or we want to give away $300,000 to charity to a ministry. Okay. In your situation, we ask ourself, if we took that amount of money and burned it in the kitchen floor, would our life change?

So, here's the thing. >> The stock market will move on your $20 million worth of investments more than 300 grand in the next 60 days, up or down.

>> True. >> And you won't even look at it.

>> That's true. >> Yeah. So, it's not because it's not it's not relevant. It's not going to kill you.

If it moved if it moved if it moved 20 if it moved $18 million out of 20 million. Yeah, I'm starting to have a duck fit now, girl.

>> Okay. I like how you put it.

>> It's a small percentage of your world and you you will survive. And it's the the thing that makes you want to scream is remembering how hard it was in the old days to get to this point.

And it's hard for your emotions to keep up with the math.

>> A $300,000 car is just outrageous.

>> It is. It is outrageous. You know what else is outrageous? You got $20 million,

girl.

>> That's freaking outrageously wonderful.

>> That's so wonderful. You know why? Cuz y'all busted your butt all these years and then you sold that business or somebody wrote you a big old check.

>> This is very true.

Luck didn't have nothing to do with this girl. >> You paid a price. >> Yeah, it was. >> You worked overtime. Y'all know what a Y'all know what a callous looks like. What kind of business was it?

>> It was construction industry. >> Yeah, you definitely know what a callous looks like. You've put up with some bull crap over the years.

>> H Yeah. Just make him so happy. But

>> I'm not for a car. It's not >> I want to talk to your wife and see what she says. >> She would say do it because I drive a Raptor. It's probably o, you know, it's over a hundred. So, my Raptor R, my

Raptor R pickup truck is nuts. It's crazy. There's no reason anybody should ever have a truck like that, but it's a very, very small percentage of our world.

>> All right. You've made me feel better. I appreciate it. >> I don't think you're being dumb. I don't think he's being dumb.

>> I think you don't I don't think you appreciate cars like he does. And that's okay. You don't have to. Um, and I think you're a good lady for looking over his shoulder and and I and I like Don't you love the way she's uh at She really is

asking the question. She's not telling us the question. You know what I'm saying, Jade? >> Mhm. I do.

>> Well, it's been eating me. And you know, kind of funny because I called a couple of times and then I would find out, well, you weren't on, but I couldn't hold on anyway. So, I just happened to get right through today because I knew I needed to ask you this. >> Oh, it's just me. >> I feel a lot better. Well, I just I feel like you your attitude with cars and

again, I wanted to talk to your wife more than you, I think.

>> Yeah. Doesn't everybody? We can't get her to come on. She comes on Rachel's show, but she won't come on my show.

>> Darn. All right. You made me feel better. The rock in my stomach is a little easier. I will tell him. At least it'll get off my chest. But >> tell him you think it's dumb, but you think he's earned it.

>> That's the way I'm going to put it. I think it's dumb, but he has earned it.

>> That's the truth. He has earned it. 20 million freaking dollars for a construction company.

>> I'm back. >> Back. Well, yeah.

>> Did you go around the planet once? >> I went around the planet. I I DID AN ORBIT and now I'm back.

>> H. So, when you live like no one else, one of the things we're discovering is we've shown people how to become millionaires, in some cases multi-millionaires. Now, we didn't show them how to sell their company. They did that. We'll give them all the credit on that. >> But we've shown a lot of people how to build >> a really nice level of wealth.

>> And um >> but a lot of money is always a lot of money. Even if it's a smaller percentage, everybody can look at $300,000 and go, "That's a lot of money." >> Yeah. I can look at that and say, >> you see what I'm saying? That part doesn't go away. I got to believe. >> Yeah. and a and you know and honestly

probably top of the market for I mean the Shelby that's a >> this is a special car but it's uh special car I don't know I'm not sure anyway doesn't matter doesn't matter again it passes the burn the money in the middle of the floor test >> right >> and so this is why you can't afford to spend 20 I don't know let's just say

$12,000 and go spend a week on Fast Pass

at Disney when you have $20,000 to your

Oo, >> you just spent all your money on Disney.

>> Now, see, that's way different. The, you know, if you want to put this in a ratio with her, uh, you can afford a Chick-fil-A biscuit. I was >> going to say that's drive-thru. >> That's that's your drive-thru biscuit.

That's your drive-through budget right there. So, this is like you buying a biscuit if you if you got $20,000. Yeah.

Same thing. So, 20 million, 20,000 little. >> But, it doesn't feel somehow it still doesn't feel that way. You know it, but it doesn't feel that way. Huh?

Or does it feel Did buying your Raptor feel like a biscuit?

>> Yeah, but it's the third. It's the third one I bought. >> Okay. Okay. You got three biscuits.

>> I've gotten practice.

The all-new Every Dollar is here. It's

way more than just our worldass budgeting app. >> Ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money and show you hand by hand by hand how to follow the Ramsay way. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in the first 15 minutes of using the app. And that gets you started to work your way out of debt into wealth and into generosity. Start Every Dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or on Google Play. The world's best

financial tool. Every Dollar. The all new one. Check it out. South Dakota's calling. Sarah is with us. Hi Sarah.

>> Hey. How are you guys today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Well, say just have a quick question.

So, um, my husband and I got a term life

insurance policy through Xander when our son was first born. >> Mhm. >> U, but that was 15 years ago. And,

um, since then, life has hit a little bit. Um, we are still making progress with our debt snowball. Um, we're actually planning to pay off our last debt um by um hopefully February. Um,

however, we're not there yet. Um, but

over the years, our income has increased quite quite a bit. So, when we were first married, we were making about 70 combined. Now, we're making about 180.

Uh, so my question is, um, >> why is it taking you 15 years to get out of debt?

Well, you know, maybe weren't so gazelle

intense. Um, >> like not at all. Okay.

>> Right. Right. But we're getting there now. Um, so we're getting really close.

And we >> So everything you still have a mortgage and you still have what else?

>> Uh, we have 8,000 on my student loan and

we've got our mortgage and that is all

we have left. >> Wow. >> So what's the question today?

So the question today we are curious do we need to consider increasing our life insurance through Xander um given that our income has gone up um I know the recommendation is like 10 to 12% of >> that's right >> your overall income or because we're so close to being debtree do we not need to

take that approach because ultimately we'll be self-funded through insurance >> no you need to extend because self being

self-insured would denote that you've got a massive nest egg of wealth that

can cover you when those situations arise. And you don't have that just yet.

If you keep going with intensity, you will. But if you play the next 15 years, like you've paid the played this last 15 years, >> you're still going to be in debt. >> Mhm.

>> You'll still have a mortgage.

>> Well, we are definitely not looking to

do that. We're definitely looking to get to that mortgage as soon as the student loans paid off. When you have enough money, when you have enough money in investments >> that the income off of the investments will support you, if he dies,

>> then you're self-insured.

>> You're not there.

We want you to be okay if something happens to him and you're not there.

>> Okay? Um and we want him to be okay if something happens to you and make sure the kiddos are fed and so forth. And that would be that, you know, and so if you had a million dollar and it was producing uh 10% that'd be $100,000.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And that's not even that won't even take care of you now because you're making >> 180. Mhm. >> And so you need about $2 million in investments right now in zero debt in order to be self-insured equal to, you know, having the right amount of life insurance. So no, yeah, you need to increase your life insurance and buy new policies. Yeah. If your 15-year fixed policy is running out, buy

by buy new ones. Yeah. >> And um >> Yeah. And here's the thing. If if you do get intense, >> um if that did happen and you get out of debt and you look up and there's a million or two million dollars in investments and zero debt, you can cancel the life insurance.

>> You don't have to keep paying it. You can just call them and cancel it. Mhm.

>> But um if you're not if you don't smoke, folks, and you're not overweight, life

insurance doesn't cost anything. It's very inexpensive. >> Very. >> So 15ear level, 15 to 20 year level

fixed rate. And the idea is that during

that 15 years, you pay off your mortgage. >> Well, yeah. >> And you get out of debt and you build up some investments and the kids grow up and leave. >> That's right. >> During that 15 to 20 years. And so we don't have kiddos to take care of. We've got a pile of money. and you you work your way into a net worth that allows

you to be self-insured >> the policy >> and so but you guys have been slow so

you get to reup your life insurance and uh and then you can always drop it later but for right now you're not ready.

>> That's a good question. >> Yeah. Felix is in Los Angeles. Hi Felix.

How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Uh thank you so much for the opportunity uh to be on the show. Sure.

Um, I'm calling today to get more to get your advice on my current living situation. Uh, I work for a government

uh utilities agency in Los Angeles as a engineer. Uh, I currently live in downtown LA. Uh, I'm paying uh about

$3,000 in rent per month and uh I just

turned 30 this year and I watch your show. I hear you know your advice about ownership and owning a home someday >> and that's a goal for mine for my for my

life as well and I wanted to get your thoughts on you know renewing uh my lease which expires uh this month or

going back home to stay with my parents.

>> Well, how much do you bring home every month?

Uh, so, uh, after tax I bring home about, um, somewhere between $6,000 to

$6,500.

>> So, um, your, what you're telling me is your rent's 50% of your take-home.

>> Yes. Uh, it's Yes, it's around that. Uh,

if you include utilities and, you know, survival. Yeah. >> So, I think, you know, there's there's one of two things that can happen here.

You can either figure out a way to bust free and suddenly make $20,000, you

know, a month, or you can look for someplace that's far less expensive for

rent. What would you do if you moved,

you know, away and moved towards where your family is? What would you do for a living?

>> Uh, well, I would still be an engineer.

Um my my my my my family stays in uh

Fontana, which is about maybe uh 50

miles away from Los Angeles. So I would >> Do you have an engineering degree?

>> Uh yes, I have a bachelor's in civil engineering and I have a master's in environmental engineering >> and you make $70,000 a year.

>> Well, that's that's No, I make around $105,000 a year. >> How long you been out of school?

Uh, I graduated with my masters in 2023

and shortly after is when I moved to LA and got my my job in Los Angeles.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're living in one of the most expensive places in the country. So, that there is always going

to be a limit because of that. So, I I

if I were in your shoes, yeah, I'd be looking for other places. Now, Fontana that you mentioned, I mean, have you priced it out? What's the difference? What could where could you could you get a onebedroom and what would it cost?

Would it get you to the 25% range?

>> Uh, well, in in LA, um, it's it's it's

very difficult to to find a place to stay. Um, >> I'm talking about Fontana, like you said. >> I I'll be staying with my parents.

>> Okay. So, Felix, here's the thing.

>> What you want staying with your parents is not your is not your play >> because it doesn't take you to the future you want. >> You've said no. You said nothing about where you want to be in 20 years, in 10 years, and and how staying with your parents is going to get you there. All we're doing solving the immediate problem by going backwards. So, no, I'm

not going to do that. If I'm you, I'm looking for a new job that pays 150,000

in a market where the rent is half of what it is in LA and you make a move for

your career. you're a single guy and you go out there and make some money and get your cost of housing down because and if you're working for a utility, your bumps, your increases in pay are going to be moderate to poor.

>> Yeah, it's a it's a government it's a government it's a government job. So, >> yeah, it's going to be moderate to poor.

The pay is already low and it's not going to get better. You're going to get cost of living bumps and nothing else.

And so as an engineer, you can go out there and make twice what you're making now in an area that costs half what it costs to live in LA. And that puts you in a position to build a life, a financial life, including home ownership. But the ratio you're giving me right now, going back to your parents, doesn't solve it.

>> No, >> that's regressing instead of saying, "How can I move forward?" So I'm going to be figuring out a way to move forward. either a different kind of engineer application for my masters in engineering in Los Angeles where I make a lot more or a different city or both.

Our

scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3:11.

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He's also set eternity in every human heart. Yet no one can fathom what

God has done from beginning to end. Andy

Warhol said, "They always say time changes things, but actually you have to change them yourself." >> All right, this is true with that.

>> Uh, Megan's in Detroit. Hi, Megan.

What's up? >> Hi. Um, I love you guys. I just want to say that first and foremost. Um, but my

question is, my husband and I just got married in September, and this year so far, we've been really working the debt snowball and paying for our um like

paying off some of our loans while saving for our wedding. And the plan was when we finished saving and paying for our wedding, we would go back and really like work our debt down. And six weeks

before we got married, my little brother died. And yeah, it's not really what I

pictured this season to look like.

>> And I guess my pro my um question is I'm

just curious on your perspective of like taking a break from the death snowball in the first year of this time.

>> What happened to him?

>> Uh he was in an accident.

>> How old was he?

>> 23. >> What was his name?

>> Uh Rocco. >> Rocco. Okay. I'm sorry, Megan. That

hurts beyond belief. Um, and you were

obviously close. Yeah. Uh,

>> yeah.

>> And how old are you?

>> 29. >> Okay. All right.

Well, um,

you're welcome to do whatever you want to do. It's your life. Okay. And if you

and your husband sit down and say, "We're going to take x number of time off and just uh we're not going into

debt. We're not going to grief spend,

but we're just going to take some time off with the intensity and cry a little." >> Um that would be perfectly fine. Mhm.

>> Um, what I would recommend is a that you stay on a plan because you can have a tendency to drift and go, "Well, I'm having kind of a down day, so I'm going to overspend." It's called grief spending. Okay? And you don't want to do that. You don't want to lose ground. You You won't like that later when you look back at it.

Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. >> It's easy to medicate grief with spending. A lot of people do it. And so, be careful with that. But if you say, "Okay, we're going to slow off on the intensity. We're just going to pay the bills, go no further into debt, and just

give ourselves a little cushion for some time to get to where we can breathe again." Well, that would be a human act.

There's nothing wrong with that.

>> What's like um I guess because I know this is not really like a unique situation. I mean, it feels unique to me, but you guys hear this call a lot.

like what's a good amount of time

>> to give yourself before you >> we don't get this call a lot. Uh we get the call where it's a spouse >> and that's the one I've answered many times in the 35 years, but I I don't I don't know that I've gotten a call from a sister with a 23 year old that was killed in an accident. I mean, that's that that's a different kind of thing than your spouse. >> It could be a good idea, and I I'm just talking out loud.

that you don't stay wandering for too

long. Almost like, okay, I did my thing.

I it's time for me to get moving. It's kind of like when you're sitting on the couch after a while, you need to just get up and and stretch your legs and move around again. >> Yeah. What's your household income?

>> So, after tax from our day jobs, we

bring in $9,800 a month. >> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

Um, we total 59,951.

>> Okay. And you're obviously the nerd of the family. You owe everything to the parent. >> I love you. You're awesome.

>> Okay. >> I love my husband. He's not like a money

stresser or >> Why don't the two of you talk about it and pray about it and say, "All right, how long do I need to get the majority

or or enough of my heart healed that I can focus?" Okay? Because we do know this about grief. When you're addressing it, if you address it properly, and you may need to sit down and talk to someone about it, may need to get a good therapist involved, >> but um but if you're addressing it properly, uh the the pain never leaves completely,

but it does get further and further and further in the rearview mirror.

And it's not that we're going to forget Rocko. That's not the point. Um or that his death's not going to be unimportant at some point. That's not what I'm saying. Uh but I am saying right now it's taking up a lot of your head space.

A year from now it will be less. 5 years from now it will be less. Would you agree with that?

>> I hope so. >> Yeah. You don't want to be sitting in exactly the same place of pain and he wouldn't want you to.

So we just say, you know, we acknowledge that it's hurting. We sit down, get some help with that, and we walk through it.

And so, um, you know, you two talk about it and I I don't really care. But I would highly recommend a that you stay

on a system where you're not spending more. You're not going further in.

>> That's a big deal. The two of you agree to that. But we're not going to work six jobs. We're not going to, you know, we'll go out to eat.

We're going to take some time off here. We're not going to throw money onto that snowball like it's like our life depends on it. We're not doing any of that right now. Um, and we're going to give ourselves a period of time.

And so, uh, I'll give you just a guess, but it's not a professional guess because Dr. John Deloney is not here, okay? Um, I'm just dad, okay?

just the old man. So, it feels like that

you need uh 60 to 90 days.

And I think at the end of that time, if you're working on this, you're going to have a lot clearer head. That's my

guess. But this happened right before the wedding and then you had the wedding. So you had these two huge events all within a couple of minutes of

each other and now we're going into Christmas and Thanksgiving and so it's like boom boom boom boom boom. Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you get the other side of the first of the year and let things calm down a little bit and get a little bit more boring because boring has not been your life lately. And then then that

that's kind of when that's kind of when some of this will flush out, I think.

But that's just an old guy talking, not a professional.

Does that feel right to you?

>> I think so. I definitely like it's I

like I want to be intense about paying off our debt still and then when I go to do it, I just don't want >> Yeah. This it's not it's not the most important thing to you right now. And that makes sense. >> Yeah. this this saps some of your strength. >> Takes some of your energy away.

>> And that that just means you're a good person. It means you're a good sister.

So I I just I think I think you and your husband pray about this. I think I would sit down. Have you Are you guys in a good church?

>> Um Yeah. >> Not really. Like we Yeah. No, not here.

>> No. Okay. >> We've kind of I've started looking around. >> Yeah. I think I'd be looking around and um you know, find a good therapist. find a good pastor to sit down and unpack some of this with and put it on the calendar that the 1st of March we're go time or something like that. I don't care if you decide it's the 1st of April, but it doesn't need to be 2028,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I I think that'll give you some peace. You're a very analytical, detailed person and this drifting is not

something that gives you peace. You need you it's going to give you more peace to say, "All right, I'm going to work on this hard this this grief thing and I'm going to honor Rocco uh very intensely for this period of time and then I'm coming out of the fog on this date."

And if you give yourself that as a set desired future, a set goal, I think it's going to help you because of the way your brain works. Am I reading you right? >> I think so. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

You're you're a good sister and you're a good husband or you're a good wife and your husband is lucky. So, you're you're going to be great. Okay. Yeah. And Yeah.

Take take a minute. Take a minute and breathe. You should. If you didn't, you'd be weird. >> Yeah. Right.

>> I mean, that'd be weird, wouldn't it? I mean, just to act like this didn't happen, that that's going to blow up.

And And it did. And it did happen right before your wedding. I mean, come on.

Right.

>> Yeah. It was >> I mean, this is like Yeah. This is hard.

This is bad medicine right here. So, yeah. Sit down and talk to somebody, kiddo. Set a date prayerfully with your husband. I think you're going to be great. She's going to be great. She's going to be okay. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 236. We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper | February 4, 2026


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `ZTooddQV_14` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTooddQV_14) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:46:34 |

---

[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. the

phone number to jump in today.88255225LE8 888255225LE8

825-55225 alongside the uh really really sharply dressed uh

George Kim >> I always like to see what adjective you're going to use on me today. >> You know I got distracted from the adjective was looking at that shet.

That's a well-appointed shet. George, as always, I'm Ken Coleman. We're here together for you. So >> looking good is half the battle, Ken. >> It really is. So you're prepared as well. All right, let's go to Travis in Huntsville, Alabama. and Travis, how can we help today?

>> Hey, um I am in $100,000 of debt and I'm

22. Um I have two kids, but I make about

70,000 a year.

>> Okay, tell us more. What kind of debt is 100,000? Break it down for us. Uh, well,

the first one was my uh I guess my

20-year-old idiot purchase, which was uh at at the time when I first got it was about a $75,000 truck from a a loan

rolled over. Now it's about at 60,000. I

pay $1,200 a month on it. Um, my second

one is a $23,000 camper. Started at

30,000.

pay that five about 500 a month on it.

And then the last one is a car for my

wife, which I currently owe about 16,000 on. >> Okay. And what is your goal today?

What's the what's the heart of the question? >> Well, I guess so we me and my wife have been talking a lot about getting rid of the truck. Um because the reason we have the camper and the truck to begin with is because we were traveling on the road. Um, I did just I worked for a

renovation company doing renovating government buildings. Made a lot of money the first year. Contracts died out, you know, just slowed down. Had to

find another job back home where we had a little more stability, but we still live in the camper and then the truck is

the way to move the camper around. So, >> Got it. So, you're living in the camper full-time. You're not renting. You don't have a home. Okay. How? >> No, we're not renting. So we and we actually don't pay for rent at the campground uh because we volunteer for state parks. >> Cool. So that kind of covers the fee.

They they kind of make it a wash there. >> And I'm guessing you don't move around much anymore. You're not moving this camper much? >> No, not very far. Just around like you

know like an hour from Hudville. Right now we're an hour so we're kind of far but we can move back in a couple months.

>> Okay. And your your wife is at home with the kids? >> Yeah. not working outside the home.

Okay. So, 70K is what we're making.

We've got 100K in debt. Have you looked into what the truck is currently worth?

What the camper is currently worth if you sold it privately?

>> Uh, yes, sir. So, the private value on

the Kelly Blue Book website is 36. Um,

so it's it's just I'm really underwater on >> So, 24 underwater on the truck. And then what about the camper?

>> Uh, the camper I don't know how much they depreciate. Honestly, I haven't looked into it. >> They'd appreciate a whole lot. That's for sure. >> You think it's worth 10 or 15? 20.

>> I might be able to get 10 out of it and that would leave me a 13.

>> Yep. So, total doing the math, you are

$37,000 underwater on these vehicles.

Meaning, you cannot get rid of these until you come up with the difference somehow to clear the title.

>> Yes, sir. >> There's two ways you can do that. >> I have a question. As I'm listening here to George talk with you, have you run the numbers on on on the most affordable rent? Uh because you're already living in a trailer. So you you make 70,000.

It's not chump change. What would rent cost you?

>> Um I there's some places where I think

we could get it for a,000.

Um but some of those places with kids I

just wouldn't feel safe putting them in.

And I know my wife would. >> Okay. But you went to the worst common denominator. So, so what I'm asking you is I would never recommend you put your family in a place where your kids are unsafe. So, let's ask reassent

look like in a place where you don't feel like your kids are under threat.

>> Um, I would say maybe maybe somewhere between 14 to,600.

>> Okay. Have you run a budget on what that could you you know, what would that do to your budget with your take-home?

>> Um, yeah. Um it would you know I get

5,000 a month. So that minus the car

payment would be you know say we had 1,500 rent two I get three three G grand

back uh a month not including expenses

but >> and the reason I'm walking through this with you Travis George I mean I wanted George to hear that ratio. Uh but the reality is is like you've got to get rid of this trailer. >> You're essentially paying $1,700 right now for rent. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> The trailer, truck and camper are >> sinking. The camper's losing value. So that's why I want you.

And George, is that too aggressive? I'd like to for him to to let's find a place to live and get renting and let's get rid of >> because if you sell the camper, you lose your housing. And so we've got to solve for that problem.

>> The issue is we need that money either through savings, through future income, or through a loan from your local credit union. Is [snorts] your credit good enough to get a loan from a credit union right now? >> Um, not really. Um, like I said, when we

were out of contracts, I was out of work for about six months in Seattle. And so I went, it was just a couple months of trying to get unemployment just to stay above water and knocking doors. Um, but

>> do you have anything in savings right now >> or anything you could sell? >> Um, anything I could sell? I don't really have anything I could sell per se. We have a camper, so every we kind of live minimalistic as much as possible. Um,

don't really have anything in the camper. I mean, besides Hobby Lobby.

>> Okay. >> Artwork. >> And nothing in your savings account. Correct. >> Um, I have a little bit. I'm working on baby step one. I believe it's getting $1,000, >> correct? >> In in the bank account. So, we have

maybe 300. And then I have a couple Roth

two Roth IRA and 401k which I'm not going to touch. >> Good. >> Okay. Well, you're you're speaking the right language here. We got to get the,000 bucks first. Then we need to solve for this truck cuz that'll free you of 1,200 bucks a month. And so even

if you go take out a $24,000 loan, it's better than what you got right now.

>> Yeah. >> At 60k. And so that's your next goal once you get the thousand bucks. And that's going to take some time. This is not going to be like, hey, we can just go do all of this tomorrow. But you're going to need to explore all of your options and try to get top dollar for these so that you can get out of this faster. And that might mean you're working two more jobs.

>> Yeah. >> That's not going to be fun for the next year or two to clean this up. But that's the only solution I'm seeing here to get you out of this without, you know, dangerous shortcuts. >> Yeah. I I'm just going to reemphasize, Travis, the first step here is you've got to find a place to live so we can sell the camper.

>> Yeah. Do you have any family nearby?

>> Um, not. We have some church family, but

we we wouldn't be able to stay with them long term. Um, all my other family is

same same deal. Not really not really fit to stay there. Um, >> one one factor I didn't mention that I've been thinking about is my old boss, he lives here in Alabama. he lives fairly close and he has offered to anytime I need to move the [music] camper to he would let me use his truck

for that. Um the one thing I I would worry about he's very dependable and reliable but you never know what's going to happen. He could move it could be broken down. [music] Um, but I was thinking if we could take care of the camper um we could still be able to kind

of live um rent [music] rentree

essentially if we have >> I think this is just we're still in short-term thinking now. We got to think about the bigger picture and getting out of this life we created. Man,

[music]

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[music]

All right, Marie is up next in New York City. Marie, how can we help today?

So, I have a question in regards to parent plus loans and if I should pause on paying them because my children are still in school. They are technically

not due yet, but I've been paying the amount that they said I would owe. Um,

but I do have credit card debt. So, I'm wondering, do I put a pause on paying the parent plus loans because they're not technically due yet, and take that money I was paying to that and put that

towards my credit card debt to get my credit card debt to go down faster?

>> Is that the only debt you have as credit card? I have um a small car loan uh that I pay

$240 a month towards and I probably owe

about uh $3,800 left on the car and I

have $7,200 in credit card debt, the

parent plus loans, and I have a mortgage of 100 that has about $150,000 left on

it. >> Okay, great. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

>> Yes, I have $1,000 saved.

>> Okay, great. Good. And what was the total amount for the parent plus loans?

>> Uh 55,000.

>> Okay. And I'm assuming that's broken out across some different loans or is it all one giant loan?

>> No, it's uh two children, three different loans.

>> Okay. >> Or four different loans maybe. >> Great. So this would st still fall into your debt snowball regardless if they're asking for payments or not. Cuz here's the truth. The interest is still acrewing. And so the more we kick this cane down the road, the more that balance is going to balloon. You're going to wake up to have a $65,000 loan.

>> And so this would just fall right into your debt snowball. So list out your debt smallest to largest. Is the credit cards is that multiple cards to make up the 72?

>> There's two cards. Yes.

>> Okay. So like a few grand each?

>> Uh yeah, there's two cards. One has uh 4700 and the rest is on the other one.

>> Okay. So this becomes pretty simple.

We're going to knock out that first credit card, then the car payment, then the second credit card, and then start attacking these parent plus loans,

>> okay? But still keep making those >> make the minimum payments that that they offer. Is there a minimum payment that you can pay?

>> So, it's just not required. >> They're paying correct. Yeah. Like they originally had said, oh, if you started

paying today, you should pay this amount. You should pay 305 a month. So,

that's what I've been paying.

>> Good. I would continue down that path and just keep doing minimums on all of your debts except the smallest one and attack it cuz I'm I'm looking at all of these debts. Are you close to like 70

grand in debt right now?

>> With without the >> without the mortgage?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what do you guys make a year? What's your household income?

>> Um, I make uh I have two jobs. I make 110 between both of them.

>> Fantastic. Well, there's some good news.

So, we can clean this up pretty fast. I mean, if you can throw, let's say, 3540 grand a year of your net income towards this, you're done in two years.

>> That would be amazing.

>> That's it. And so, I think part of this, K, it's hard to just like peel back and look at the big picture versus just staring at all the variables and debts in front of you. >> Well, let's talk about the big picture because you just hit her with that 35 to 40,000 a year. And it's almost like Marie, we could hear that you were stunned by that.

You you you laughed and said that would be nice. So, let's talk about while we got George with us here on the budget. He's the budget guru. Is that believable to you?

>> It's a little unbelievable

because I and I feel that I I work really hard. I

have two jobs. So, and I I listened to you guys and what you say about and I've been doing the debt snowball. So, I just got rid of one credit card last week.

So, that was a little celebration. Yay.

But the So, my mortgage I only owe $150,

but my mortgage takes like $2,200 a month.

>> Okay. That's why I wanted to lean in because, you know, George is taking a shot there. But if let's say George, we use your number of 35. That's just about 3,000. a little bit less than 3,000 a month net. So realistically, Maria,

Maria, if you are very disciplined to

the best of your knowledge right now, what do you think you could put away every month with the two jobs minimums

plus the extra? Yeah. >> What could you throw at all this debt?

I pro I usually I mean and I hear you

and and I think you are probably right,

but it almost sounds impossible, you know, when you're sitting on this side because I do pay, you know, $1,000 to

the credit card and I do work extra or

overtime at the first step. >> Well, that's why that's why I'm pushing in a little bit. I I wanted to see if it is doable. So, could you What is the most money you could commit? We're we're not holding you to this. This is an exercise while we have you. What do you think is the most I I'm talking like extreme budgeting, saving, cutting expenses everywhere. To George's question, after you pay the minimums and your four walls, what do you think you could put on debt every month? What number?

>> I probably could put $1,000 a month

>> on top of your minimums is what you're saying. >> Yes. >> Okay, great. Because I'm doing the math here. 27.50 gets you out of debt in 24 months. If you're doing all the minimums plus the extra, that should add up to 27.50. Now, two two years, that was just I'm just throwing something out there.

On average, we find that people who follow our plan to a tea, we're talking baby steps, budgeting, using every dollar, making the sacrifices, 18 to 24 months is the average. And based on the numbers you threw at me with your $110,000 income, seven, you know, 66 grand in debt, you are right there.

That's going to be 18 to 24 months of sacrifice. And at first you're going to feel like you're not making progress, but I'm telling you, month after month, in 6 months, you're going to have a few debts knocked out. Think about that. You free up the payments. Now we're throwing at the next debt. And so the snowball starts to roll and by the end you are just you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. >> Yeah, I love it. How about we just That was a great locker room speech, George.

Even though you never played sports. >> I don't think I've been in a locker room other than me getting bullied in one.

But what do [laughter] >> So what if we give her Breaking Free from Broke? Because I think that's a mindset book in her situation. You like that? That's your book. >> Yeah. That'll get you fired up about your debt. Give you the path out in in my voice. So there's a lot of jokes in there cuz you got to have fun along the way, Marie. And what you've created right now is not fun. Taking on the parent plus loans, which is a noble thing to do. You want to help your kids.

But here's the here's the kicker. That debt is in your name. The kids don't legally ever have to pay a dime. and the interest rates are higher and so these are not going away even if it's you know the payment is deferred the interest is still acrewing and it is brutal so I want to do a followup on behalf of our larger audience okay because for the [clears throat] minutia sometimes I want to make sure people get the principle so in Marie's situation um you told her to

continue making what the minimum payments would be even though that they're not asking for that money right now um why did you give why would we give that advice as opposed to saying do the snowball on everything else but that. Why that advice, George?

>> Well, if you're not making any payments at all and the interest is acrewing, you've got a double whammy situation.

That's right. Because you are not moving the needle at all with the principal.

And so, the only thing moving the needle is interest adding to your balance. And we hear those stories cuz people, they weren't taught how interest works, >> especially when you're not making a payment. And so, if you go punch the numbers into an interest calculator, you will find that balance will balloon. And who knows how long they'll be in school.

what if they're in school for another 6 years, >> right? >> And so, you've got to just start creating the habit of knocking out this debt systematically. And the debt snowball method is the way to do it.

>> Yeah, I thought it was I thought it was interesting to hear her brain and her reaction was really fun to hear that.

Wow, that would be nice. When we pressed in right now, she's thinking $1,000 a month. I got a hunch. Uh, and Marie's still on the line. I think she could get more than $1,000 out of that budget.

What do you think based on your experience? >> Yeah. I mean, if you take 110 grand minus your your taxes and you're going to pause all investing, so you're just going to, you know, pay your healthcare if that's through your job and all that, but whatever comes home, that's your number now that we've got to figure out. You got 2,200 in your mortgage. Okay.

Whatever's left, how little can we live on to throw as much as we can at the debt? >> Right. So, four walls plus insurance.

Anything else that can go? Everything else is a luxury at this point. >> That's right. And kudos.

Maria is working two jobs, folks. I mean, so this is superwoman here. In this case, you're looking to sell everything you can possibly sell. What if you can sell five, $7,000, maybe as much as 8 to $10,000 worth of stuff.

That again reduces that timeline. So again, we we have a lot of new people joining us all the time and trying to understand the practicality of these steps. Listen, we didn't say it was easy.

is hard. But boy oh boy, you heard how she reacted when George said, "I think I can get out in 24 months." That's exciting stuff. The quicker you get out, the quicker you move on in your life with the dreams that you want to achieve.

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All right, Charlotte, North Carolina is where we go next. John's got some type of a family issue here we need to talk about. John, what's going on?

Hey guys, uh thanks for having me on the show. Um so my wife's brother and sister

um not as well off financially as us and

we're coming up in in our own financial journey to a point where we may be able to help them. Um but we're having an

issue when we talk about it because and uh please I don't want to paint them in a bad light. I love them. They're great people. Um but in a lot of aspects of their lives they are very much um we can't right now because people um you

wouldn't understand because we've got three kids you don't that kind of thing.

Um what is something that we could do when we get to the point uh that we can that we could help these these people that we're not crossing a boundary but we're also not enabling bad financial decisions. >> Okay. Well, you answer that question. Is there let me flip this on >> and I'm gonna set you up.

Sorry, I didn't mean to just but you Yeah, you No, you called us. You tell us. No, here's what I want to know. >> You've already laid out George and I know exactly what you're saying.

You're not in any way attacking them. However, here's my question for you. Let's just fast forward into this future that you just mentioned where you're going to have some extra money.

>> Yes, sir. about $38,000 down and we got

about 30 to go. >> No, no, I know. Don't worry about that. We're going to fast forward to your heart of your question. Okay, let's fast forward to this future where you have some margin to where you could help them financially. In what area

would you feel confident telling George and I, I helped them, forget about the number, but I helped them how I could

and I feel like this help will actually make a difference.

Tell me the answer to that question. What area where you could help would actually make a difference and they wouldn't squander it and they wouldn't just, you know, motor through it? Where where could you help them where it would make a difference?

>> The biggest thing that we've discussed that I think could possibly work is if we were able to pay for a year of child care for their kids so that mom could go to work and help them financially cuz dad is kind of limited in his position with what he could make.

>> Okay. If you were to do that, a would

she go get a job? Yes or no?

>> I I couldn't tell you. I I think so.

>> And what if she doesn't?

>> Is the Is it conditional where you go, hey, you got to show proof of >> Well, I don't like I don't like your answer, John. You realize what I'm doing here? I'm walking you through. Is this a good ROI? And your answer to that was, I

don't know if she'd actually do it.

>> That's a bad sign. True or false?

>> True. >> You see, so this is how I would come about this. My heart says I want to

help, but I need to put real plans, real

specifics together. And I just kind of walked you through this. And the first thing you said that you would do to help, there was no certainty at all that

it would actually help. Because if you pay for child care, but she doesn't go get a job and thus get extra money and then we didn't even ask you. Even if she made the extra money, do you think that she would put it towards removing debt?

What's the answer to that?

>> I think so. They've been watching our financial journey. Um so hopefully we've been just hoping that they would see what we're doing and >> have they asked questions? Have they even said they want help or is it just more Well, that's for you guys, but we that's not a thing that we're going to do.

>> Yeah, I think that's true, George, because we've offered them financial peace because we have it. We're actually waiting to start it because we we want them to go through it and they've had it and haven't done it and and we're getting frustrated because it's it's like I I want to I want to help you. Let me help you. >> Right.

But John, you just said a moment ago until George reframed that, you said you thought that they would use that income of hers to help themselves.

now you're questioning that. So you see, this is the exercise. And I'm glad you called us because we can be objective. We're we're not related to them.

>> It sounds like to me that this is a bad investment.

>> Okay, >> here's the underlying fear. You don't help them move forward. They just get comfortable for a while while you get super resentful because you're helping them and you're really putting putting yourself out there paying for child care for a whole year all for them to not make any progress. Well, now the relationship's gone. You you've lost all respect for them. >> Mhm.

>> And so until they are at a breaking point, until they have enough pain in their life that they're going, I guess we should put on that financial peace thing. We are running out of options here. >> Yeah. >> I don't know that they're ready for it yet. >> I agree. That reminds me, George, of the old phrase, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And this is tough with family. So, George, I don't know where you're at. I'm going to say, John, I would not help until they say that a

they want help and because they acknowledge they need help. And I think those are your two boundaries. And I and again, I would run through a similar exercise like I just walked you through.

And my friend, you answered your own question. Um, and I know it's a tough situation. I hate that. But you guys got your own financial journey. You got 38,000 to pay off. Let's go walk the

baby steps. Continue to do what you've been doing. Let's get out of that situation. Make your life better and let the chips fall where they fall with other people. Let's go to Jonathan next who is in Fairfax, Virginia. Jonathan, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, longtime listener, first- time caller. My dad actually, he's really a big fan of the show. Um, and right now I'm just got a little uh question about how to find housing at my current stage of life. I just graduated college about two years ago. Uh, and I've been working as an RN for about a year and a half.

I'm about to get a raise and I'm still looking around trying to find good housing uh, without breaking the bank and just like being able to save continuously after that and it just seems like a really big struggle for me right now. >> Give us some real numbers. I know the Northern Virginia area. If you're in Fairfax area, I know that area. That's extremely expensive place to live. Give

us the numbers uh for George and I. What you're looking at for a rent.

>> So, honestly, I'd take I'd take really anything. The I'm really trying to reduce my commute as well, though. And um in the Fairfax Fair, they're Oak specific area, which is where my hospital is. It's around 1,500 at base

price as far as I've seen. and I've asked a few realtors, but it comes to about there. >> What have you been paying in this two years since you've been out of school?

>> I've I've actually just been staying at home. Uh my dad's very gracious. He's allowed me to stay at home for $200 a month. Um additionally, a few other utilities in there, but >> Okay. What's your income now? And you also told us that you're about ready to get a raise. So, give us those two numbers where you are now and then what your new raise will look like. Right now I believe it's 90 a year and further

than that in about a month and a half I think it goes up to probably 93 94.

>> Do you have any Do you have any debt payments? >> I do not. No. >> And you're worried about $1,500 a month?

>> Just a little bit. But >> well compared to 200. Sure. But that's a false reality. >> Yeah. George is in the middle of this stuff. George, what do you think about 1,500 a month for >> I mean, if you're if you're taking home about six grand a month, 1,500 bucks is right on the mark. We tell people 25% of your after tax income is what you want to stay in for housing, whether it's rent or a mortgage.

>> Okay. >> And here's the other thing. That's for you living alone, right? >> Yeah. Here we go. Tell him, George.

>> Can I tell you, I don't want to pull out, you know, like I'm a pioneer woman or something, but I had roommates all the way up until I was married because I couldn't afford an apartment on my own.

But you can. But if we've already established you can afford it, but to George's point, if if it gives you stomach problems, fine. For a twobedroom

and now your rent's a,000 bucks, you'd feel a little better, wouldn't you?

>> And you're splitting utilities as well.

>> I'd definitely love you if I could find someone. But you're right. You're >> I mean, Facebook groups all over for roommate finders and apps and ask around to your friends. I mean, you got young guys you work with probably. And so that's that's you got to put a little effort. You know where I'm at, George on this. >> What's that? >> You've proven that he's fine financially. He's got a great upward path. He's got no debt. You know what?

This is quality of life.

>> Jonathan, I think you got to focus on how much life is going to be better not commuting way out into Fairfax. I know

what that traffic is like, >> but it's scary to fly the coupe, Ken.

He's comfy. >> But once you start thinking about not driving in the seventh level of hell every day, there's a really nice tradeoff. Life is about trade-offs, George. That's right.

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All right, let's go to Kathy who's joining us in Minneapolis. Kathy, how can we help?

>> Hi, my husband refinanced our car and

now we have a 25% APR and wondering what

we should do. >> O oh boy, what caused this refinance?

>> Uh so we had >> What was the original APR >> experience? >> Uh the original was 14

and um he was trying to get money to pay

some things and decided to take out 3,000 on top of the car loan and that's

what happened. >> Yikes. Why would he do that inside of the car loan?

There's so many ways to get 3,000 even though it's a terrible idea to go into debt for any of it. But why refinance the car loan to get three grand out?

>> I think because it was the fast Well, so

he had originally applied for a personal loan, but his credit wasn't very good and so [clears throat] uh they told him

that he could do it through the car loan as like a secured I don't know.

>> Yeah, it's a secured debt. >> He didn't involve me in the car. They go, "If this guy can't pay, we get a car out of it, so we're willing to do it." Oh, and by the way, his credit shot, so the APR is 25%. Because he's a risky borrower.

>> Mhm. >> So, I want to dig here because you you laid it out for us very clearly. And you said, "What do we do? Is is we involved here or is it just you?" Because it sounds like he made a really desperate move.

>> Yes, he did. And it is we involved. Um

>> Okay. >> But yeah, he I wasn't included in that decision. So, >> yeah. But he's now going, "Okay, uh, I I

screwed up and I need some advice."

>> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. Any other debt? Because that that helps us with this with this answer. >> Yeah, we have a credit card debt, student loan debt, personal loan.

>> What's the total of all the debts?

>> Um, it's about Oh gosh. like

>> uh just under let's see like 70,000.

>> Okay. What do you guys make a year as a household?

>> Uh about 70,000.

>> Wow. Are you guys both working full-time?

>> No, I'm a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. So, he's he's pulling in 70.

>> Yeah. Uh and 13 and one.

>> Oh. >> For the ages. >> You just got restarted again.

>> Yep. >> All right. So, I have to ask because I think this is this is this kind of level of intensity. Are are there any type of skills, work experience that you have that would allow you to do some work from home? I know the one-year-old is that's a full-time job. Don't want to minimize that in any way. However,

you got 24 hours in a day just like everybody else. Is that even possible?

And what do you think you could do to make some money?

>> Um, yes. So, it is possible. I [clears throat] actually just finished school. So, um I'm going to be pursuing

something hopefully from home. I also homeschool, so there's that as well.

But, um I >> Is that going to be possible if you're working full-time out, you know, outside of >> Probably not full-time?

>> I'm I'm hoping to find something part-time from home.

>> What's your degree in? And what will the job be that you're hoping for?

>> Um holistic wellness and like um I'm

also certified in personal training. So

something with personal training and health and wellness. >> So like a your private coaching for nutrition, wellness. Okay. All of that.

And you that's a little more flexible.

You can kind of do that on your on your own schedule. Well, I will point out you have to go get clients. That's a whole different ballgame when you're doing it for yourself. >> So yeah, >> I'm going to just point that out that that is difficult. Not saying you can't do it, but I would give yourself some realistic goals. And if in a month or two or three months we're not signing up any clients, not getting anybody interested, you need to go work for somebody else.

>> And that's just a reality right now. Um,

you know, if you guys got to bring in more income. Do you have any savings at all?

>> No. >> What's left on the car balance after this refinance? >> Um, so he he just refinanced it, so it's

sitting around I think 17 18,000.

>> Okay. What is the vehicle worth? private party value >> uh 7,200.

>> Okay, so we're 10 grand underwater. So there's our number. If we want to get out from under this 25% APR, which is going to cause the balance to balloon if we're not attacking it, then we need to get out from under it >> by creating this 10 grand, either by saving future income or taking out a loan from a credit union, which I'm guessing is not an option cuz he's tried that and his credit is shot. Is your credit shot as well?

>> Are you tied to this? >> No. >> Okay. No, I'm not.

I'm I was on the original loan, but when he refinanced, I was taken off, I guess. >> Okay. You would I would see. Now, it's going to be tough because you don't have income.

And so, they I don't know if they'll look at the whole picture if you're the one taking out the loan in your name. Uh, you know, they're not going to allow him to be a co-signer, I don't think. But, if you can go to your local credit union and get a loan for the difference, that at least gets you out from under this.

>> Uh, no. >> This is your one car? Yep.

>> Okay. Well, the other option is you attack it with a vengeance. I mean, having an $18,000 worth of vehicles making 70 is not the problem. The problem is the behavior that got us here adding to the pile, going back into debt, crazy interest rates, a lot of desperation.

And it sounds like a lot of this was done without any teamwork. It was just kind of him on his own out of desperation. And you were an unwilling accomplice, or did you know about all this? >> Yep.

No, I didn't know until after it was done.

All right. So, what does he do for a living?

>> Um, he drives garbage trucks.

>> Is he handy?

>> Yeah. >> I'm telling you right now, he is he's

the one now. You've already said what you were going to do. And so, if he were on the phone be going, "Hey, buddy, you did this. You ought to feel a massive burden." I'm sure he does. But outside of driving that garbage truck, if he's handy, he's working in a warehouse. He's doing whatever he can. 25 an hour, whatever he can do, >> he can hold people in the neighborhood.

I tell you what, the one-year-old needs you. >> And I say this not knocking him, but saying this as a father of three, >> for the next year, the one-year-old doesn't really need him that much. He needs to be working. And the truth is is he doesn't even work for a year.

It's like I would be circling $18,000 if I were your husband. And I would be going, "How quickly can I make $18,000 outside of my $70,000 job?" George, that that would be my intensity. You agree, disagree on that? I mean, does that changes their life initially?

Gets us out from underneath that massively bad loan that's just putting them in quicksand. >> Yeah. When you're when your debt is the same as your income, I see there's a big problem here. Now, if your debt was 140 grand and you got 70, we could solve this within 18 to 24 months.

And so what that tells me is we need to get aggressive getting this income up.

That might be you getting a full-time job. And we put the kids in school, daycare, whatever we need to do right now to solve this crisis. And that's what it is. It's a crisis. >> That's right. But Kathy, you guys can get out of this. But it's it's both of you. It's two points you want you to walk away with on this call.

>> Both of you have to work more and make more. And both of you have got to be

super aligned on a budget that allows for no extra spending on anything other than just the four walls. You got it?

>> Got it. >> You up for it?

>> Yep. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Game on. >> Cuz this is doable. George, what's your calculation if they were to do that? And I know you don't know >> if they get the Yeah. I'm saying two and

a half to three years. If they stay status quo and try to do it with their current income, I think this would take four to five years. >> Yeah. >> And the balances would just grow with this level of in I mean the credit cards are high interest, the car is high interest, and who knows about the personal loan and student loans, but there's there's debt surrounding us right now. And so, we've got to get on that debt snowball. We've got to get the spending down. We're going to make some deep sacrifices right now.

>> In your bestselling book, Breaking Free from Broke, you write a lot about traps.

Of course, you coach. you sit here and co-host this show all the time. I think this is important. What is happening?

What is the emotional trap

that causes a guy like this to take such

a crazy desperate loan for only $3,000?

What is happening? What do you know?

>> Well, it starts with I can afford the payment on this one thing and well the student loans that's an investment in my future and well the personal loan will knock that out fast. And so it's a lot of good intentions and they're a little bit delusional and stareyed about the fact they can carry this. And then a spouse wants to stay home and they go, "Well, yeah, that's a very noble goal.

You got to stay home. We'll figure it out." And then desperation leads to refinancing the car loan. And so it's not one thing. It is death by a thousand cuts that got us there and it's death by a thousand cuts that's going to get us out.

And it's much easier to go into debt than it is to get out. That's the hard truth. The dealership will always be happy to refinance at 25% [music] APR. And so you've going to you're going to have to hustle.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. [music] Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in today 888255225.

Georgia, take lead on your money questions. I'll take lead on your

winning at work. If you're feeling stuck, a lack of balance in your life,

feeling burned out, that's going to affect all your money stuff, too. So, uh, we can combine any of those calls.

We'd love to hear from you. Let's start it off with Sabrina, who joins us in

Atlanta, Georgia. Sabrina, how can we help? >> Hi, thank you for taking my call. So,

I'm a single mom. Um, I had a retirement

uh and a home and um got scammed out of

my retirement from my ex. He said he'd be in I could make more money on investments and stocks that he was able to do that and I pulled out 85k

which of course I had to pay a penalty.

I'm 54 years old currently

and um so now I'm basically starting

from scratch. I have um sold my home so

I have some money saved and I'm just

trying to figure out where I need to go from here. I do have um a special special needs child. Um and I just want

to make the right decisions going forward and really, you know, building for my retirement because I am, you know, 54. >> How much do you have saved off of the sale of the home? >> So, um I had to pay a lot of debt back

>> um because my ex was a squatter for a year and a half in the home.

Um, so 35,000 in a CD. So I dump that in

a CD that matures in March.

Um, my high yield, I put 10,000 in a

high yield savings account.

And then in another savings, it's $1,200.

And then I have some debt.

>> How much debt do you have left?

>> So 6,500 in credit card. Uh, my car

13,000. Uh, it's worth 10,000. I got it during the pandemic, so it's a little upside down.

Um, >> what's before we go forward, what's the car payment on that?

>> Uh, 4.86 a month.

>> Yes. >> Let's stop right there. >> And and it's and it's 96,000 miles. And

I've already in the last year dumped

$8,500 in repairs.

>> Yeah. But I mean, that's it's still that's a car that, you know, I'm just I'm going to jump in right there, George, because of the money she's got in savings. Uh, if we could pay that off, that saves you $486 a month

immediately. You would feel that? Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Keep going on the debts, but I just wanted to jump in like that's a that is lowhanging fruit because you've got cash today to pay that off. George, you don't have any problem with that, do you? I mean, the SE maturing in March, so today you can knock out the credit cards with your high yield savings.

>> Okay. >> And then as soon as that matures, I would use 13 grand of it and knock out the car. What else do you have?

>> Um, I have an attorney's bill for 10K.

>> Okay. Anything else?

>> Um, oh, I have a term life insurance.

That's uh I only pay 360 a year. It ends

in 2031 and it's for $200,000. So, I didn't even

know if I should even like stop that.

But, >> do you have any kids? You said you're a single mom. >> I'm a single mom, special needs child, teenager. >> Yeah, you're going to need that money if something were to happen to you. I mean, even though it's 200k, that's still money that can be used to help take care of your child. And eventually, >> you're probably going to need a special needs trust.

Well, that's part of the 10K.

>> Okay. >> 5K uh for the attorney is for the court

case that I had or have currently. And

the other um 5K was to hire um a wills

and trust attorney to set a trust and

will >> because I need to protect my son. And I I just that's a priority for me right now. >> It should be. I love that. You've got term life insurance. You've got a will and a trust. You're doing some good things here. And the good news is, you have any other debt outside of that? I heard the three. No. Okay.

>> So, you've got 30K in debt and you've

got $45,000 essentially liquid.

>> Yes. >> Have you been debtree in your adult life?

>> Before my ex? Yes.

>> So, why don't we call this a new slate and say this is post ex Sabrina. She's

starting a new chapter. She's got a lot of life ahead of her. We're going to go into this thing completely debtree with $15,000 in the bank. You hear me?

>> Okay. Yes. >> Now that we have a foundation, now we can begin investing for the future and rebuilding what we've lost. How sure are you that that money is gone. Did he

spend it? What did he do with this money?

Um, well, I can't get that answer

because I tried and as soon as I stood

up to get an answer, it became from, oh,

I went to stock. Oh, no, I went into a real estate investments. Now he's telling the attorneys that um it that I

agreed on putting it in a business and that business went defunct.

>> Okay. But I'm dumping money to get discovery and it's not happening and I don't want to dump any more money on attorneys when I know I lost >> and this guy's a piece of work. Then I would move on and just start investing with your current income which how much are you making a year?

>> So I had to take up a W2 to stabilize in

the last two years of this uh court cases. So I make 50k gross.

>> Okay. with the W2. And then I have my own business that brings in 6 75K in

gross, but I only pull about 20 to 30.

>> Okay. So, we'll say you make 80 grand a year. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you will be in baby step four if you follow what we told you. Pay off the debt, park the 15K, call that your emergency fund. Maybe you want to add a little bit to it to get to 3 to 6 months of expenses, maybe 6 months since you're a single mom with a special needs kid.

But 15% that's 12 grand a year you would be investing. So we're going to do a,000 bucks a month from 54 and likely the

truth is you're going to have to work longer than you wanted to, right?

>> Mhm. >> To maybe let's say 68 or 70.

>> Is that fair? >> Okay. >> And you're starting with zero in retirement, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. you could have over half a million dollars from 54 to 70 investing grand

into, you know, mutual funds inside of retirement accounts.

>> Okay. >> I'd love to know more about the business. You you said you're grossing 75, you're only taking out 20 to 30.

Does that mean that you're stocking away what we would call retained earnings or that's all you have to be able to take out as a net?

Um, well, I I'm a little funny on those

numbers, just just so you know, because I'm new in the business. This is like my third year in the business. >> Okay. >> Um, so I do uh I I do like owner draws

that are not consistent.

>> Okay. So, >> is is the business fairly healthy though? What I'm saying is, is it is it mostly profit for you or is it running really tight?

It's mostly profit for me because I don't have overhead. >> What? Why? What's the business? Tell me in 5 seconds what the business is.

>> Professional or home organizer. I help people declutter and organiz. >> Isn't that fascinating? You're the professional organizer and you don't have a grasp on your own numbers. Get yourself a good bookkeeper. I'm not chastising you, but I am saying you have it in you. You want to know those numbers cuz I see a great path. The reason I'm asking these questions is as you grow that business, George, I see tremendous potential for you to grow, >> scale that thing, >> to scale it, pay yourself more after you run through the advice George gave you.

But this is an opportunity to play catch-up. Uh, get a good tax pro. Go to

ramiesolutions.com.

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All right, Brandon is up next in Oklahoma City. Brandon, how can we help you today?

>> Hey, first of all, excited to be on.

Thank you guys for having me. >> Sure.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, I'm in an industry. I'm

in the oil and gas industry and uh the job volatility in in what I

do is it's up and down a lot. Uh, I'm on

step two, pay off your debt using the debt snowball method, but I already have three to six months of expenses set back in savings, and I'm ready to start paying down on some of the debt outside of the mortgage. I'm just having trouble taking that leap because I've been through this this cyclical thing of working for a couple years and then the oil and gas market dies and you lose your job for a year and then it comes back and you make good money and then you lose your job.

should move forward in that situation.

Well, I have a question first before George coaches you on what to do. This has happened to you before in the oil and gas industry. This idea of where everything's hot, making great money, and then the market changes, I'm guessing, but this has happened to you more than once or just once.

>> This is my fourth uh run.

>> Okay. So, here's my question for you.

>> What would need to change? What would need to be true? Having weathered this before, if this happens again, what

would need to be true?

>> What would the new reality need to be to where you could weather that storm? You tell us.

Uh, so I I

the new reality would need to be I mean

I think we would need to be paid down to where it was just our mortgage and uh it

would be a lot easier to survive in between those and or move on to something else >> and not get in and out of the industry itself. >> Have you gotten into any of this debt while in this industry?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Can I just poke a little bit and have some fun?

>> Oh, you can ask me anything you want.

>> If you're truly scared of volatility, why would you go into debt?

>> Cuz debt is risk and it robs your income. And so if you know this income might not be there, >> that in your brain there was the risk factor was broken.

>> And you just answered my question by saying the thing that would make it easier is that we only had a house payment. >> So, >> right, this been in that position before. >> Well, what happened?

>> Uh, we decided to buy uh the lot that

was connected to us and we built an office here at our house and and made some investments. We felt like we wanted to to continue to work remote and do

what we were doing at the time. So, based on what I've heard, Brandon, you presented to George and I that you're

afraid of using the cash you have stocked up, >> right, >> to pay off your debt when what you should be afraid of is investing in a loft next to you, investing in other things. Like, do you see where the the fear is misplaced?

>> Yes. >> You're you're choosing which risk you want to keep. And we're telling you, if [laughter] savings is peace, you're right. You were half right. Having the savings there gives you peace. The problem you're forgetting is that debt equals risk. And the key to permanent peace is getting rid of the debt. And I think you're a little comfortable cuz you got 3 to 6 months of expenses saved.

Why work that much harder? Why sacrifice that much more? We would be okay if something happened for a little bit. And I think getting rid of that savings and putting it on the debt will light a fire under you and it will expose the reality of your situation. >> And again, I want to remind you >> like that, >> Brandon, your words. If you emptied out

the savings today and paid off all debt and you get laid off, you said that you could weather it based on three other times. You have experience. So you were speaking from experience to George and I. >> Yes. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> So were you telling us the truth? >> I am.

>> Yeah. I'm telling you the truth. I've fluctuated in and in and out of the real estate market in real estate sales as a broker here between between those those times where I've been in oil and gas. And I've had success in that also.

>> So, here's the key factor. You're not scared of hard work. And so, if something were to happen and you didn't have the savings, you would go work your butt off to cover it and then get back on the plan, get back on the horse.

>> Yeah. D. Yeah, for sure. >> So, let's get tactical. How much do you have in debt, consumer debt? How much do you have in savings?

>> Okay, so total debt's around 200k.

That's with the house. >> Skip the house. Put the mortgage aside.

That's a baby step six item.

>> Yeah. So outside of that, I have 30K on

a business business equity line of credit that's attached to an investment property we own. >> Okay.

>> And then I have 20K in a lot loan. So

it's a piece of land that's attached to our primary residence. All right.

>> And then I have 20K in a home equity line of credit.

>> All right. So, we're looking at 70K

out of the 200. >> Yeah. And we have about Yeah. And we have about 40K in cash.

>> Great. You're telling me you can knock out the lot loan and the HELOC today?

>> Yes. >> Do it.

>> Double dogged dare you. And the other thing is all of this is tied to your property. So, you're putting your house on the block triple right now cuz all of this has collateral, doesn't it? If you don't pay, >> that's how the HELOC works.

>> Yeah. >> And so, for a guy telling me that you're afraid of risk, >> you've taken a whole lot of risk on.

>> Yeah. >> So, knock both of those out. You got 30K left. Use your future income, which How much are you making as a household? Sounds like you guys make good money if you're in the oil field.

>> Yeah. So, I make about 120 when when

it's going. Uh, and my wife, she got laid off last year. She's a medical coder. She got laid off last year uh to

AI, but she's back right now temporary, and she makes about 40k when she's working full-time. >> Great. So, we're both hustling. We'll making 160. We got 30 left to pay down on the line of credit at that point for that business line of credit, which will get knocked out within months.

>> Making 160. >> Yeah. I'm talking less than six months. >> And I've got one >> Yeah. And I've got one more question for you guys. Uh I was going to ask, what

are your thoughts on as I'm doing what I'm doing right now in oil and gas on trying to bust back into the real estate market again so I have something to transition back into when this when the oil and gas goes down again? What are your thoughts on that? >> My quick take is you really can't win at

real estate part-time. And so if you're talking about being a real >> I know that. So then I don't think that's uh smart unless that's your goal long term.

>> So if that's what if that's what you want to do long term, you know, let's go. But let's do it after we take care of what George We got the present. We need to win and let's use what income we have right now to get out of debt and and and walk through baby step three and then be in baby step four and then let's look at transitioning to whatever.

>> That's one year from now. Do you see that? You pay off the two debts today.

You got 30k left. That gets knocked out in 6 months. Another 6 months for your fully funded emergency fund to stock back up. Now we've got a real foundation. That's actual financial peace.

>> I like it. >> At that point, you guys are driving me toward it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah.

Absolutely. Listen, you you've been afraid of the wrong things.

>> Okay. >> There's no fear walking out the plan George laid out for you. None.

>> No fear. >> Okay. >> There there's some hardship. There's some sacrifice, right?

>> But on the other side of that is to George's point, if you want to go into real estate full-time, then after I got this debt done and I got a three to six emergency, three to six month, and I'd go six months, by the way, and then I'd go all in on real estate because you got to build up a pipeline. But you got some experience. You've dabbled in it sounds like before.

>> I'm hearing sales, not you investing.

I'm hearing you're a realtor. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Yes. So, I'm a real estate broker. We have a property that >> We have a property that we bought.

>> Oh, I know. We invested in >> a commercial piece of property.

>> Well, real estate people famously uh have their risk meter broken and any cash they do have, they want to immediately deploy back into investments cuz like I can make way more money in real estate. But then it leaves us in alert here. So, I think Ken is right.

You've misplaced the fear. Your fear right now is what if I have a $30,000 emergency and I don't have the savings.

The true fear is you have $70,000 in debt that is tied to your home.

That's the thing we should be attacking.

And you'll get there in no time. And you you work hard. You make great money. We just got to retool some things and clean it up. A year from now, you'll be in a very different place.

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>> [music]

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>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And [clears throat] they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. A and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. Now, this is the entire plan that we teach. The baby steps, all of it, [music] right in the middle of this world famous now app. Oh, it's so

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Let's go to Carol in Denver now. Carol, how can we help you today?

>> My question is, what are your thoughts about using AI in tax planning and

preparation?

Oh, that's a hard pass for me. George,

what what got you here? What made you go, "You know what? I'm gonna let Chad GPT handle this one." [laughter]

>> Um uh I was presented with a um document

from the accounting firm requesting that I authorized AI to be used and um some of

it would be overseas and I'm apprehensive about that. Oh, so you're going through an actual tax planning firm.

>> Yes. >> Okay. They're just using they're just sort of speeding up the process by using AI. And we're going to see this everywhere. Almost every organization is going to start using AI to help move things along, you know, reduce the amount of resources they need. And so that doesn't worry me as much. I thought you were just on your own trying to do tax planning with an AI, you know, tool.

>> Yeah. >> No. No. And it's it's the accounting as well because the accounting firm does the tax, you know, taxes and therefore

would they be using an oversee entity to

be able to help do?

>> Well, you just need to ask, you know, this is here's the thing we preach all the time on on any trusted Ramsey trusted service. We want people to understand what the firm or the the the

person is doing for them so they explain it to you to where you go, oh, okay. So if you have questions about that, okay, what how is AI being used in the preparation of my taxes? You know, uh if overseas, what's going on? Just ask those questions and somebody with great service who really cares about you and values you as a customer, certainly has the heart of a teacher, is going to have no problem answering those questions.

But George is right. Um, I'm not sure

you're going to be going anywhere in this country or any other country with professional services that have a um a

decent amount of clerical administrative work where AI is not going to be used.

>> Okay, thank you. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. That's a good question, George.

Yeah. And if you're not comfortable with it, just go, "No, thank you." And you can reach out to a, you know, a tax pro and you can find one of those at ramiesolutions.com and you can ask them, "Hey, what role does AI play in the way you do tax planning?" Yeah. >> And if you don't like the answer, you can move along to someone who does it old school. >> Yeah.

All right. Real real quick fun question for our next call.

>> Uh, I'm personally not scared.

>> Okay, good. and I'm going to stick to the the positives and, you know, how helpful it can be versus is it going to take over and and destroy everything?

Maybe. >> All right. >> But until then, I'm going to [clears throat] just >> You're a guy You're a guy that that operates with a decent level of anxiety.

So, people should take that with a uh serious shaker of salt. >> That is true. But I'm also very pragmatic and I like to be efficient.

Yes. And I think AI can be a great tool when used properly. >> Technology does not scare George Campbell. Stephanie is up next in Detroit. Stephanie, how can we help you?

>> Yeah, about five months ago, my uncle passed away. >> I'm so sorry. >> Me and my husband is home.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> When he passed away, we wanted to sell the home cuz it was only a two-bedroom home and it's like 30 minutes away from my kids school and on the school district. And since then, we've had issues with property boundary lines. And we've been working with a realtor and now since all this, we've started to love the property. And I'm wondering what is financially the best decision to do? Either sell the home or do renovations to make it a little bigger.

>> Okay, let's play this out. You love the home and so you started thinking about making improvements. What would be the future of that? Why? In other words, why make those improvements? Why do you love it?

>> It's on a lake.

>> Okay. So, would this be a secondary home?

we would sell where we're living now and move into the into there.

>> That's exactly what I was getting at.

So, now it comes down to okay, uh the

boundary issues you brought up. There's been some challenges. Is that a is that something that's easy to navigate and you now have some clear direction on it or is it going to be a headache ongoing?

>> We're not sure. We're still in the process of it.

>> Well, I can tell you just >> company now. I wouldn't I wouldn't think about selling my current home and moving into uncle's home, no matter how much I love it and how awesome the lake is, if there were some boundary issues. That scares me to death, George. I would get clarity on that before deciding anything. Here's the key question to ask, though. Would you buy this house today if it weren't inherited?

>> Let's say you had the cash, you knew what it was worth, you could pay cash for it, and you sp you probably not.

Yeah, probably not. >> Why?

>> In an area we wouldn't really go to because it's out of our kids school district. >> Then how would you move there today?

>> Well, the school's on the way to my husband's um work.

>> Okay. But it'd be a pretty big commute for him to get to work, for the kids to go to school. It would be inconvenient for your life as it stands today.

Yeah. >> Yeah. You just answered the question. George asked it as plainly as you as he could and you just said, "No, I wouldn't buy it if my uncle didn't give it to us." So, based on that, >> Yeah. >> and the boundary issues, uh, I would solve the boundary issues so that we could sell it.

The other piece of this, do you have financial goals where if you sold this house, it could really solve some other problems?

>> Do you have any debt? Do you have a mortgage? Uh, I we have debt. We

actually live in a trailer and we have

about 60,000 in debt.

>> Is the long-term plan to live in a trailer?

>> No. >> Okay. What could this house sell for?

>> We were told about 150 to 200,000.

>> Okay. So, think about it this way. >> Is that all cash coming to you? Have any debt? In other words, on the house?

>> Well, we have about 30 grand on the home. What do you mean on the home?

>> On the [clears throat] the mortgage for the trailer. >> No, no, I'm talking about uncle's house.

It's paid for. >> Oh, no. It's paid for.

>> Okay, great. Okay. >> So, if you could walk away with 200 grand, pay off your 60K in debt, pay off the 30 on the trailer. You still have 110 left potentially for a down payment on a home that will go up in value unlike the trailer.

>> Correct. Gamer. doing that all day long versus taking a vacation home that you may or may not live in.

>> You guys have some priorities right now.

>> So, I'm going to take this as a this inheritance as a blessing that puts you guys on a very different path than the one you're on right now.

>> Okay. >> Cuz the current path is not a great one.

Can we all say that out loud?

>> Yeah. >> We're $90,000 in debt. The trailer's going down in value, which means you're probably upside down on it. And we need some stability. And what your uncle did is a huge blessing to give you guys a different trajectory for your financial future and for your family tree.

>> Yes. >> And maybe one day you do buy a house on the lake. But right now, if you guys had no debt, you had plenty in savings and retirement, you were on track to be multi-millionaires, I'd say just keep it and for fun for now and maybe in the future you use it. But you guys aren't in that place.

And so I would sell it absolutely and get rid of it as soon as you can and use that money to pay down your debt.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, you got a good plan. Get a good real Do you have a good real estate pro on your team right now helping you solve all those?

>> Yes. Yep. >> Okay. Fantastic. I'm telling you, get that solved. Priority number one is to get whatever boundary issues, get all that clear so that you can list this house and then follow George's plan to you guys are going to be living it up.

What a great position to be in. You know, so sad that you lost your uncle, but boy did he bless you and we want to make sure you maximize this blessing.

Okay.

>> All right. Thank you for the call.

>> I'm still reverse engineering it like that. If would you do this today on your own valition versus it falling in your lap? And if the answer is no, you got to go all right. This isn't the move.

>> Yeah, I love it. >> As much as you could justify it. >> Yeah. >> Do your uh uh do your uh shark tank. I

love when you do that. >> Oh, and for those reasons, I'm out.

[music]

[music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. Defaulted private student loans do not fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Y Refi helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can clean up the mess and move forward with a plan. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Today's question comes from Colin in Georgia. My wife and I recently started the baby steps and are quickly paying off debt. We purchased a home two years ago with a 30-year mortgage. Once we pay off our debts, should we refinance ourselves to a 15-year mortgage? The mortgage is currently 25% of our take-home. We [snorts] can put extra money towards the mortgage once we get past baby step three. What would you suggest?

>> This would be a more information needed situation. >> I agree. >> Cuz it's it's not that simple. Now, we love for people to get the 15-year mortgage, but if you're already in a 30, it's not a yes, go do this today. You got to look at the interest rates and how much the refinance is going to cost you to find out how quickly you would break even. So, if you would break even on this loan in 6 months, then sure, go

for it. But if it's going to take a while to break even because of the current rates and the rate you currently have, it's okay to keep the 30 that you got and just pay extra like it's a 15 or

even better like it's a five or 10 and just get out of that thing as soon as you can. But if you want to crunch the numbers, uh, call up our friends at Church Hill Mortgage. They'll be happy to run the numbers for you to tell you honestly, does this make sense for you right now? >> Yeah, love that. Good advice there.

Thanks for the question. All right, we're going to go to Jesus in Dallas.

And uh looks like our notes tell me that he's got a gigantic car payment, George.

It might give you a little indigestion.

So, I've got the fake Tums over here ready to go. Uh so, let's see how we can help out there. Hey, Suz, tell us what your question is today.

>> Hello. Good afternoon, guys. uh happy to see be speaking to you guys this afternoon. Um my my only question is well I have other

questions that we have time for but my main question is how can I get out of my

the car loan that I have it's $34,000

in total. My monthly payment is $830

uh a month and I recently got it

evaluated for $14,750.

And my bank is Navy Federal Credit Union

>> and I asked I basically asked them if I could get a loan for the for the remaining balance balance so I can sell it and they denied me. So I was kind of

left at a loss. I don't know what to do next. And they're the ones that are holding the loan?

>> No. Okay. Um, no. Yeah.

>> All right. So, you said you got it evaluated. What do you mean by that? Who told you the car is worth 14?

>> Uh, Kelly Blue Bucks. I haven't taken it to like any any place where they physically looked at it, but you know, I put all the details. But >> you're saying the private party value was 14750.

>> Yeah. If uh that's a good number to basically trust Kelly.

>> Yeah. I was just making sure it wasn't the trade-in value, which is always going to be much lower. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you are $20,000 underwater. What other debt do you have?

>> I have no other debt. I've been listening to you guys for close to a year now >> and I managed to pay off my credit cards. I just have this car loan now.

>> Good. What do you make?

>> 77,000 a year. And um I'm a diesel

mechanic, so I my my monthly changes is

either under or higher, >> but that's what my salary is.

>> Do you have options for not just regular overtime with your company, but freelancing, if you will, given your unique skills?

>> I, you know, definitely thought about it, but I have not explored it because um I'm like so invested in to where I

work. I just work so much over here. And

uh >> Well, how much how much is um a lot?

>> Like 55 to 60 hours? 60 hours would be

like an extreme, but normally 50 hours.

>> How much were you putting away towards the credit cards while you were paying them off? What was the the most amount out of your monthly budget that you were putting on that debt

>> on the credit cards? >> Yeah.

I I kind of wasn't putting I was just doing the snowball and when I at the end of the month um so so the way I do it I

save for to pay off the month first and then anything extra I put it towards the cards and I just did that anything extra

I had I just throw it at the cards so my >> Yes. What was the average amount extra that you had to throw at debt per month at >> a,000 2,000 >> 1300 at the end of the month? Yeah.

>> Okay. Could you do more today now that those payments are gone?

>> Uh, yeah, of course. I could I could not that much more. Maybe like 1,5600 a month. >> Great. So, here's your options. Number one, you get a loan for the difference, which you've tried one place. They said no. You can always try a different place. The other option is saving the difference in cash in order to clear the title and sell it. Now, you still need more money to then go buy a different car, right? That's your only vehicle.

>> Yeah. Well, I I bought my fiance a cash

car here recently, maybe like a week ago. >> Why'd you buy her a car?

>> Uh because uh I'm in the reserves military and I do a lot of driving and when I'm away, she has no way of getting to work or also an important um part of

information is we're we're expecting a baby girl. >> Oh, wow. Congrats.

>> Thank you. So, um, for the expected days

that I'm supposed to leave, I leave like

five days, uh, at a given time.

>> Okay. So, do you need two cars right now or could you survive as a one car family? >> I we can survive. We've been doing uh

one car since we've known each other.

>> Okay. >> So, here's your other options. And what I'll suggest, you can either save up the 20K real fast aggressively. Like let's say if you can save up 2K a month, we got the 20K in 10 months >> to get rid of this or you just pay the car off aggressively and keep it.

Now, it's a lot of your world, but you've rolled over negative equity, so it's not a true picture because generally we say don't let your uh you know the total amount of vehicles, things with motors and wheels add up to more than half of your annual income.

>> But that's your other option. If you want to keep it, you pay it off aggressively. at 34 grand if you can put, you know, 1,600 bucks a month. It's going to take a while, but you could do it.

But because you only need one car, I like the plan of you throwing two or three grand a month at this thing and being done before the end of the year to get rid of it, >> right?

I'm doing the stork mode. of >> Got it. You're stacking up cash.

>> Okay. >> How much do you have saved right now?

>> Uh I had about I have about three three

and a half thousand right now and I expect to have well what like 7,000 by

the time she's born.

>> When are you guys getting married so that we can put those incomes together?

So, uh well, we we would love to get

married immediately, but um

my my mother, it's a situation with like an immigration case and the lawyers basically said it's not a good idea to get married yet. I I really didn't challenge it from there. I I just kind of said, "Okay." >> Because of your mother?

>> Uh because of my I'm in an immigration case with her. I'm trying to get her uh her residency, I believe, or citizenship. >> But what does that have to do with you two getting married?

>> Well, I I guess I don't know cuz I never ch I challenged the that statement. I didn't ask why can't we, you know.

>> Well, I'll give you the math on it. Let's say you save up, baby's home and healthy. That gives you a pile of cash you can throw at the debt. Within 6 months after that, you could have the 20 grand saved to cover the difference for the loan and then sell it and clear the title. and then you go down to one car and then whatever future money now we're saving up to get a second car if you need one or we're just stacking up the emergency fund if you're out of debt at that point.

>> Okay, there's no shortcuts here. Do not go further into debt. The only reason I tell you to take out a loan from a credit union is if you can go down in debt and then get out of that aggressively. >> Yeah, George, I'm wondering why and I did not hear you recommend this. Why not have a third option where he sells the car and gets the max he can get for it?

Cuz it's going down in value if they can truly survive off of one car, which is her cash car. Why not sell? >> Well, because when you're underwater, you don't have a clean title. And so without a clean title, he's not going to be able to hand that title over to the person buying it.

>> There you go. >> And so there's a lean against the the vehicle with the lender. And so to clear that, you got to go to the bank, have the money, the difference, >> it's not as clean as it sounds >> to pay off the loan. Yeah.

So it's it's a process.

It's you can't be underwater on a car you pay cash for. And it's one of the best reasons [music] to never go into debt for a car on top of many others.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Co. George Camel is alongside we're here for you.88255225.88255225.

All right, let's go to Ryan in Salt Lake City. Ryan, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how's it going today? >> Good. How are you? >> I'm looking at I'm doing very well. I was just wanting to ask you what I would have to do at 28 years old this February

to retire at 40 years old.

>> Okay, you got George over here who does his magical computations.

>> Yeah, we can talk about how to do it and then I want Ken to talk about should you do it. M I like >> what what caused this goal?

>> Well, uh I'm trying to go against the grain and I do not want to work until I'm past 60 and I believe I have the

income in order to do that and uh kind of break the streak and retire at 40.

>> Okay. Well, there's a lot of variables we don't know, but let's start with what you make today.

So last year I made 235,000

and I'm projected this year. Um you know

that was with some bonuses last year. Uh my pre-tax is supposed to be around 206

to 210 this year. Um >> great. So we'll mark it a little over 200 >> about 147.

>> Are you single?

>> I'm married with two children. >> Okay. And that's the household income is your is your spouse at home?

Uh she runs our company that we uh opened a few years ago. She does uh consulting for construction companies, but that's her thing. I got out of the company uh when I went from 1099 to being a W2 employee.

>> Okay. So, is that additional income or is that part of the 235 >> that that's not including my income.

Okay. >> Uh she's part-time and doesn't uh get

maybe get 10 hours a week or so, but I'm not factoring that in. >> All right. So, what is your goal? Do you have a goal in mind of how much you need to have saved in order to accomplish this to be work optional?

>> I'd like to I'd like to have at least uh

$7,000 coming in a month. 7 to9,000 for

retirement every single month.

>> Okay. So, you're probably looking at, you know, at least one.5 million bucks or something sitting in an account that's invested, you know, heavily in equities and stocks. And so do you have anything saved right now or invested?

>> I have $5,000 in Schwab and $15,000 in

savings and my checking account usually floats around 8,000. I just got myself out of a ton of debt. U so right now is

my my time to kind of start the

investment process in order to do the retirement. Okay. And uh I got two loans um that I'm still working on.

>> Okay. So, let's walk through the process that I would personally walk through if this was my goal, which would be to pay off all of my debt. And that means liquidating most of the savings to do that, to speed this up, getting a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months, which if you're saying you're you're what's your burn rate every month right now. How much do you need to get by?

>> Uh, right now 5,7483.

>> Okay. So, let's call it 35 grand as a six-month emergency fund for you guys.

So, that's your next goal. Then we need to be investing 15% for retirement because we want to take advantage of any tax advantaged accounts we can first.

And so if you got a match, let's start there. Roth accounts, that's a great move there for taxfree growth and then traditional accounts. Then beyond that, beyond the 15%, if you wanted to put some money away in a brokerage account like is what that's what you're talking about with the Schwab account.

>> Yes. In SWTSX.

>> Okay. Then if you wanted to put money there for it to grow and you put, you know, 50 grand a year, let's say, that would get you about 1.1 in 12 years.

>> So you'd be a little off the mark. So then you, you know, let's ratchet it up to 70. Well, that gets you to 1.6.

>> The other factor here is your mortgage.

Are you guys, you guys own?

>> Yes. My total housing is about 2828 and that's including uh the 2123 mortgage,

Wi-Fi, water, trash, and all that.

>> What's left on the mortgage?

>> Uh we're at 338.

>> Okay. I personally would attack the mortgage first before I was doing additional into the brokerage account.

And you'll have time. >> What would that be? >> What's that? What what would the benefit of attacking the mortgage first be rather than u maybe getting rid of a car

payment which is less than >> Oh, no. You need to attack the consumer debt first. Hear me say that. So, we talked about knocking out the consumer debt, getting an emergency fund, investing 15%, then anything extra.

We're putting some toward college, paying off the mortgage, which means we're probably going to be delaying this plan.

>> Okay?

>> Once the house is paid off, now we can invest beyond the 15%, put money into the brokerage account. Cuz here's the thing. If you got rid of that mortgage payment, it really reduces how much you actually need in that fountain, doesn't it?

>> I have something to throw at you.

>> Okay? >> So, if my if my housing is 2,828

a month, but my vehicles is 22.65 a

month, I can I can pretty much free up the same amount if I paid off the vehicles a lot quicker than the house cuz it's not that big of a number, which >> Yeah. Oh, I'm dude. I'm telling you, follow the baby steps. Consumer debt goes first. Did you miss that part? So, the the cars are going to get paid off ASAP.

Then the emergency fund gets stacked up.

Then you start investing 15% into retirement accounts. Then some money to college. Then we throw the money at the mortgage. So, I'm not telling you to pay off the mortgage before your cars.

>> Gotcha. >> And by the way, a guy who wants to retire early should not be carrying $2,200 in car loans, >> right?

>> I agree with that. >> Okay. Just want to make sure because that is flying in the face of your stated goal of financial freedom. Now I want Ken to quickly hit on should you do this because I have followed the FIRE movement and seen what's happening over there and it frankly worries me.

>> Yeah. Are you are you a fan of the financially independent retire early?

That's the FIRE movement.

>> Uh I'm not I'm not aware of that.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, here here's what we found and this is all documented. the guy who started who's credited with starting this movement. The idea was work like an absolute maniac. Don't live life. Don't enjoy anything uh until you're 40 and you stack stack stack stack stack. And the guy who actually is considered the founder of this actually went back to work uh two or three years into it uh for a couple of reasons.

Number one, he thought in his mind that

he had not actually saved enough given how the cost of college was going up.

That was one of his stated concerns.

Also, the guy was bored out of a skull and and you know, there's nothing wrong with retiring. And I love, by the way, whenever I say this, people always come at me in the comments and and come at me because I'm not going to be in there. George will tell me. >> I'll fill them in. [snorts] >> I'm not saying that there aren't certain people who can retire at any age and never work at their life and be as happy as a clam, fishing, hunting, whatever.

But what I am saying is is that we know

from research that it has negative effects on us because there is this built-in desire in our spirit in our soul to make

a contribution. So I'm not saying you got to work 40 hours a week until the day you fall over. I am saying that it

is it is proven that it is better for us mentally, emotionally, and physically to have some type of purpose outside of just play uh as we age, >> right? >> So, but I will tell you, I love that you called us and threw it out there, but I got to tell you, after George ran those numbers out, you've got a ways to go based on this after you follow everything I've told you, you still have to stack. to stack 100 grand away in that account for a decade for this to even make sense.

to have a more realistic goal >> and a healthier one >> and a healthier one so that we can actually reach it. Cuz I think you you've created a mountain in your mind that's not climbable given your financial realities. But if you do what George said, you're going to be a very happy man and can in fact retire much earlier than most.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

All right, folks. [music] If you have kicked your debt to the curb, you

deserve to celebrate. Where do they deserve to celebrate, George? Where would somebody where would you recommend that somebody who who beat beat all their debt? They got it out of their life.

How would you think they might, you know, celebrate that? >> I think somewhere warm, somewhere tropical, and somewhere with Dave Ramsey and the Ramsay personalities. >> How about the Caribbean? >> I'll go there >> with Dave, you, me, and all the other Ramsay personalities.

>> Take me there. Want to go there? >> All right. It's called the Live Like No One Else Cruise.

Folks, it's coming back uh after much popular demand. And I'm not reading from any notes here. This is a fact.

>> Those folks loved it who went on it before. And uh so my my my this is going to sell out way faster because now everybody knows how great it is. And I got to tell you, um I'm not a cruise guy, George. >> Traditionally, >> well, I don't like being on the boat.

I like the clothes that you would wear on a boat. The attire is what they >> I like the boat attire and I like the Caribbean. Well, this crew this cruise was great and so here we do. Here we go.

We're going to roll it back.

they say run it back. Not roll it back.

Run it back. >> It's your show, Ken. >> March 14th through 21. March 14 through

21. 2027. That's next year if you're looking at your calendars. Uh in the Bahamas.

How about Jamaica? George, >> do I want to take you? Was that my Q?

>> It was. Okay. Uh, the Grand Cayman and

Kazumel.

Uh, cabins are limited. Save up to $300

when you book by February 7. So, hey,

those of you who haven't made any plans, are you kidding me? Next March, you got cash. You want to save 300 bucks, you got to do it before February 7. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramiesolutions.com/events to book your cabin. I am looking forward to this. Um, I did not think it was going to be as amazing as it was. The ship was great. Uh the people, our our our our fans are just amazing.

>> It was electric energy. >> The buffets were next level. And I will tell you, there was in fact a pickle ball court on top of the ship. So if you're a pickle ball, we had a lot of tournaments going on.

And >> they wore you out, man. You were up there for like seven hours and people like, "No, no, no. You're not going anywhere, Ken. I want to play you." >> Yeah. Oh, there's a shot right there with the headband. >> Oh my gosh. >> And the lettuce, as the kids call my hair. uh flowing on top of the ship.

It's on the top deck, George. >> That's a bold move to show off your legs, Ken. Yeah, >> with those chicken legs you got down there. >> I Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. They're just little. That's all it is. So, we'd love to see you on the cruise. And uh I wear, by the way, on stage, did you like my attire? I really went with a cruise ship theme last last year. >> All of those white pants you own finally came in handy. >> Well, lots of linen and lot of loafers.

>> Yeah, a lot of loafers. All right, Carol knows what we're talking about somewhere in sunny Florida. Carol, how can we help you today?

>> Uh, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's going on? >> Um, my husband and I are both going to be turning 65 this year, and we want to retire at the end of the year, >> and we're trying to decide if we should pay off our house or not. Um, and if so, where we should pull the money from. We don't have any other debt. Um, and we do

have some savings. We have about 1.1

million in an IRA. Uh 90,000 of that is

in a 401k and we have about 145,000 in savings.

>> Awesome. >> We owe 155,000 on the house and the

interest rate is 2.75%.

Um the problem is the maturity date on that loan is 201. So we'll be about 90.

>> Yeah. No, thank you.

But um I'm not sure, you know, if I pay

it off, I'm not sure exactly where to pull the money from.

>> So you've got 145K in liquid cash. What is that earmarked for right now?

>> Um tell initially to live off of when we

retire. We'd like to delay drawing our social security, which would be about $4400 a month. If we draw now, we'd like to wait at least a couple years and let that grow. Okay.

>> Um, our monthly expenses are about 5,000.

>> Great. So, you almost have the cash to do it, but you're saying you need a big chunk of this to basically live because you want to retire by the end of the year. >> Yes. Um, retirement for me is a great goal. It's going to be a really big switch mindset for me because I'm a saver, not a spender.

So, depleting money out of that savings makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Yeah.

Yeah. >> So that's why I feel like I need a little bit of advice from someone who has a broader outlook.

>> What's your household income?

>> Our household income right now is about 160,000. >> Awesome. >> And we save about 2500 a month and we

put uh about 15% into our uh investments

with employer match. >> Okay. So outside of 15%, you're saying you have 2500 extra you can throw at the mortgage?

>> Yes. All right, that that'll get you far. That's 30 grand right there. And by that point, the mortgage is down to 125 grand. You'll have the money in cash, but you're going to need some of that to float you for a year or two, it sounds like. >> Right. >> And do you have any other money outside of the 1.1 nest egg?

>> Um, I have about 40, well, say 45,000, no 52,000 in a

Roth. >> Okay. >> Um, but I didn't start it until 2022. So I don't think I can withdraw from that without penalty for five years. Is that correct?

>> Yes. Uh do you have a financial advisor you've used to crunch all these numbers?

>> Um I I have some my investments in

Schwab and I've talked to them, but the

rest of it I've just done on my own.

>> Okay. My only fear is that you're riding it pretty tight if you're wanting to spend five grand of net income a year for the rest of your life off of this million dollar nest egg. And so that's the part where I can see it working, but uh a Smart Vster Pro can run the projections out and show you all of the scenarios and what, you know, medical costs might be and when Social Security would kick in and when you should take it. All of that will factor into when you should retire.

>> Okay? >> So, I think you're on the cusp here and I think you can pull this plan off, but I would double check it with a Smart Investor Pro to make sure that the numbers make sense. But if I'm in your shoes, I like using cash first. We want to save the retirement.

If you have any taxable uh investment accounts, use that next. Then we move on to traditional accounts and then if you have any Roth accounts, I would wait as long as I could because those are growing taxfree for you right now. So that would be the the bucket strategy and a Smart Ver Pro can walk you through that based on your numbers. And it might mean, hey, we got to work 6 months into 2027 to make this work, but I want to make sure that you're ironclad.

>> Love it.

Let's go to Michelle right here in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee.

Michelle, how can we help?

>> Hi. How are you guys doing today? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Good. Well, recently, uh, my husband and I both have had some raises. We're still in the middle of baby step two. And I'll be honest, we've been doing this for a couple years now, and so just trudging along on this baby step two feels like it's just going on forever. But since we've got these raises, I'm wondering if I can quit my side hustle. um and just

put this extra income towards Baby Stub 2. >> What was uh your side hustle paying you?

[clears throat] >> Um it's about 20,000 a year.

>> What is your what's your raise paying you? What's the net on the raise?

>> About 6,500 a year.

>> So it's not apples to apples, correct?

>> Well, it's not. But my husband also got a big increase in pay and his was about 40,000. >> Oh, okay. All right. So yeah, I mean you

certainly can.

Um, what's the timeline differences?

Let's say you kept the side hustle and his raise and your raise. How fast would you get out versus if you quit the side hustle? Does it delay it by 3 months or a year?

>> No, it's not a year. When I put it in um

the app um every dollar it it says it's like three or four months difference. Although, you

know, like I said, I'm just tired of working, you know, the extra job, but um I certainly want to get the debt paid off, too. And to be quite honest, I don't like the extra three or four months either. So, >> well, there's your answer. It's really not our answer.

I mean, we can give you our take, but there's no right or wrong answer is really my answer, but I would lean towards I was going to turn the question on you and you got ahead of me and you asked your own question and answered it.

Continuing the side hustle or continuing to stay in debt even longer and sacrificing in other ways and making the payments and paying the interest. And so if you can find a second wind here and just power through and go, I hate this side hustle so much. I'm willing to work even harder, I think will fuel this debtree journey for you. >> I agree. I agree. You hate the side hustle, you hate the debt. But if you work three to four months more, you get rid of both of them at the same time.

That's my answer. Bing, bada boom.

>> And I'm sticking to it.

[music]

[music]

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

>> [music] >> All right. It's always fun when we have friends of Dave stop by. And Dave's got lots of friends, George, as you know, and they're interesting people. And uh this is a special treat for us. We're really excited to be joined in studio uh by Andy Irwin and Bart Lard. and and and and you're going, "Uh, I think I may know those names." Well, you do. Andy Irwin, the award-winning filmmaker, uh, behind the very first film, I Can Only Imagine Bart Lard is now uh, is is

producing this as well. I Can Only Imagine 2 is the follow-up to I Can Only Imagine. And I got to say to you guys, when I saw that this was coming out, I thought this is a good sign that the first movie, we know it was a big deal, but there had to be a lot of heat because I'm not a fan of sequels, George. you know, they're hard to pull off.

>> They're hard to pull off >> unless it's Home Alone 2. You're like, "All right, good." >> That's one that I thought was was good, but not great. And so, I'm very excited about this sequel. Guys, first of all, welcome to the studio.

Welcome to the Ramsay Show. And I think it begs the question, I I'm being serious. I mean, it seems scary >> to pull off a sequel because it's not done well.

Why pull off the sequel? >> Uh, I was terrified. I said no over and over again. And so Bart and I have been really good friends since the first movie. And and uh they kept bringing up this idea of I think there might be more story to tell. So Cindy Bond, who was the original producer, was like, I think there's more story. And I was like, absolutely not, cuz I don't want to ruin it. It was just so magic.

>> And there's just there's sequels that are made that worship the original and then they just mess it all up. And then there's Top Gun Maverick. And so the idea of reintroducing you to the world you love and taking it somewhere new.

And so Cindy started talking to Bart and then Brent Mccoral who did Jesus Revolution with my brother. They started talking about the story of Even If the song that so many people love every bit as much as I can only imagine. And so when they started walking through that they said you got to hear this. So they pulled me into the conversation. They walked me through the story and it was just the second half of a whole and it's the perfect end to a father-son story.

And I was in tears by the end of it and then Bart was like I think this is kind of like the spiritual sequel to I can only imagine. And I was like, "No, this is the literal sequel. I can get that made tomorrow." And we pitched at the Lionsgate 30 seconds in. They're like, "Guys, we're obviously doing this movie." So for us to step into it was magic.

To finish the movie and test it, we were just nervous like what's the audience going to think? >> The first I can imagine was our highest testing film we've ever had. It scored a 96 with the audience. This one scored a 97.

So it's exciting.

hopefully not >> what you guys have done in the the world of film and faith. It always it hasn't always been world class. And you guys have brought just such a level of quality from the stories to the acting, the craftsmanship. And so I can't wait to see uh you know this one out in theaters February 20th for everyone to see it for themselves, especially for our audience. >> Yeah. You know, yeah, your audience is in for a treat. You know, Dave, Dave, and Ramsay is a part of this like uh

>> the part of the movie was filmed. I just found this out moments ago. Tell us what what's going on, Bart. How did this happen? Because you and Dave are big buddies. >> Yeah, he's my stunt double. Uh, [laughter] pretty much. No, man. Uh, yeah, Dave and I have been buddies for a long time. I didn't even realize that he made the movie until I saw the >> So, Dave Ramsey has a cameo. If you listen, you listen for a familiar voice,

you will you will recognize it. >> So, you're filming on campus here. And then then after I learned that, I was also disappointed to find out that George and I did not make the final cut.

>> You're You were too expensive. >> Did they even send you my audition tape?

That's because they named your price and it just priced you out. So, we're going to have to work up to your level. Yeah, I'll get there. >> We actually we actually we emailed Dave and said everybody's like, "No, Dave never says yes to filming stuff like that here." And so I emailed him and he was on y'all's cruise and I just said, "Hey Dave, be careful when you're friends with a filmmaker cuz we ask for stuff." >> And I was like, "How would you feel about us filming the movie at your place?" And he was like, "Yeah, man.

It' be fine. Talk to the guys, work it out." And I was like, and so >> he picked him on a good day. He was on the cruise having a good time. >> He was good.

He was out in the sun. >> He had just finished the buffet. Uh that's why he was excited.

of the story. You know, as a guy who of course you've been nominated, won so many awards as lead singer of Mercy Me.

This is such a different space. You telling stories with songs, but as you were walking through this in the story that we heard, at what point do you go, I I think this is a big screen story?

Uh, I don't know if I was ever sure about that until I actually uh read the script. Um, I mean, it's been almost 10

years since the last movie. Exactly. I had did an interview yesterday and they're like, "So, you're cashing in with a sequel." I was like, "You don't normally cash in." No. 10 years later.

It's like and and so I really was excited that there was a story there, but man, when Cindy Bond originally wanted to make a movie around Even If, she wanted to just find any story like fan mail, something. And it was when I met with Brent Mccoral who wrote co-wrote Imagine did Jesus Revolution and he goes, "Well, where' the song come from?" And as I told him the story, that's when he had tears in his eyes and he was like, "This is it." And what if we literally got the band back together and put it kind of in this universe and made it a sequel and and so I was like I was a little skeptical cuz you know, you never think your life's that interesting and it's not.

He made it very interesting. But uh but yeah, when I read the script, I was like, "Okay, yeah, let's do this." Well, so much of the story is about the the true cost of success, the underbelly of, >> you know, you you have this thing hit and there's other piece of your life that you get a flat tire in because you're so focused on your career and and a lot of our fans experience that. So, where does this movie pick up? Is it a direct connection?

And I, you know, I love the stories in the building here, just how, you know, Dave has never shied away from that. A lot of this was born out of failure and out of, you know, learning at the lowest point. And so, you know, with Bart's story, I was really really um just excited that he was willing to look at on the other side of success of what happens if happily ever after breaks.

What happens if you get everything you've ever dreamed of? You know, the crowd starts, stops cheering, they go home, and then life goes back to being hard. And where's God in the hardship there? And so, this new character Timonss kind of gets brought into the mix. Played by Milo Ventilia, >> that people know from This Is Us and Gilmore Girls and all that type stuff.

And uh >> is that based on Tim? >> Yeah. So yeah, so yeah, Tim is Yeah, he's the guy. So he's he's >> I play pickle ball with Tim and you he told you [laughter] >> the movie is about Tim.

>> He's been he's been hurt. He's been playing. So he showed up recently and the weather been rough, but I got to tell you, I'm a little excited. Keep going. I apologize. >> So it's Tim. So Tim's one of Bart's best friends. >> We co-wrote even if and so the story is how we got to write that song. We got to that point. >> I love that dude. I've known him long, long time, but didn't know that >> you're about to get a lot of him.

[laughter] >> I got to text him on the way home and be like, "Dude, you're holding out on us.

I'm going to embarrass him next Wednesday night when we play." >> I love it. Please do. If you can embarrass Timmons, then you're you're good luck. You're special because he's he's hard to embarrass.

That's true. >> But he and uh he and Milo just hit it off and Milo really wanted to make the faith authentic. And so Tim is this guy that come gets thrown into Bart's world and is carrying this kind of secret about his own journey uh and but has this idea of gratitude living with gratitude of God thank you that you woke me up today and this kind of tension between grief and gratitude and he begins to kind of you know encourage Bart and this journey and it leads to this amazing song and ultimately is the healing of this father-son story of Bart as a father towards his son and we finished it at Red Rocks.

We filmed the end of the movie at Red Rocks. Oh, that's epic.

it's epic. >> I love it. We're talking about the new movie, I Can Only Imagine, too, in theaters February 20th. Bart, I want to

give you a final word to encourage our audience because these people, as you know well, are walking through some tough stuff. You know, our baby steps, while simple to explain, are very difficult to do. And I've just kind of moved as Andy was talking about the theme of this film.

>> Encourage people who are in those dark days of just scrambling to maybe come up with a thousand bucks or they're in the middle of baby step two where they're paying off debt and it feels like an insurmountable climb. What would you say to them? >> Man, life is messy.

>> I love it. Well, folks, if you love the first movie, and millions of you did, I can only imagine, [music] well, I can only imagine, too, coming out in theaters February 20th. Uh, also a

special fan event, a little kind of a sneak peek. Give us real quick 10 seconds on this. >> Uh, February 14th, we got a a fan event where they'll they'll have a one [music] night screening all across the country, February 14th. So, you can get some early access stuff. They they uh recorded Even If with uh at Abbey Road in London. >> Where do they get details for that? They they get details online. I can only imagine movie.com. >> There it is. I can only imaginemov.com.

Did I get that right? >> I think I got it right. I probably got it wrong. >> Date night. Valentine's Day. >> Yeah, you can't miss it. Valentine's Day is great. Hey guys, thanks for being with us, Andy. Appreciate you guys.

[music]

>> [music]

>> You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the Smart Investor program. Smart Veester can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand.

Head to ramseyolutions.com/smartvevestor to get connected. >> Ramseyolutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

[music]

[music]

All right, our scripture of the day comes from Luke 16:10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. [music] Our quote today from John Wooden. Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. Trent is joining us now in Idaho. Trent, how can I help?

>> Hey George, Ken. Um, so I was calling. I had a question. So, kind of got a late

start on my retirement and I'm currently

in a good position building my retirement up, but uh I don't really

have I've got a wife and four kids and

uh we're we're plan on adding two more

kids, but the the small town we live in

doesn't really offer experience or opportunity for our kids to grow. and I got a potential job

opportunity in my company in a larger city where there is more opportunity for my kids, but we would sacrifice our 401k

growth that we're building right now.

Kind of wanted some advice. >> What do you mean sacrificing growth there? Because you said it's with your company.

>> Yes. So, so currently right now, um,

my housing it's not, we pay like 300

bucks a month on rent. And so we have

been able to put, uh, for the last two years, we've been putting 40% of each paycheck into retirement into my 401k Roth. And so, we've been able to build a

lot the last two years. And then but in

the small town there's not a lot of opportunities for kids to grow and learn

things. >> So you're saying you'll have less money to put into retirement due to a higher cost of living.

>> Correct. >> What is your what's your pay now and what would it be in the new city?

So, um it it would be I'm currently

getting paid around 74,000 a year and

um it's it was put on the table. So, I don't have like a a set amount that I would be getting paid in the new city.

It would be either equal to or maybe a

little bit more than what I'm currently making. >> So, it' be a lateral move, >> but you would have more opportunities for your family in general.

a better quality of life, let's say.

>> Yes. >> I'm taking that over, you know, more in the 401k. >> I Yeah, I'm just sitting here listening and listening to the line of questioning. I'm going, this is a no-brainer to me. What What would be the doubt that you have about this?

uh because because how so like right now I have uh

165,000 in a my Roth 401k and so we've

been able that's where we're at right now and we're

we're saving saving saving trying to build it up as fast >> but why but I I understand again what what is that the doubt you're going to be making more money

>> well it would Well, yes, because we wouldn't be putting as much into retirement, but we'd also >> Yeah, but you also are going to have some type of a 401k or Roth program with that company. >> Can you still invest 15% in this new area? Cuz that's the baby steps until you pay off the house, which you guys said you're renting right now.

>> Well, currently right now, we're just in the Yeah, we just we rent. We don't have no. >> So, a goal would be to own a home and then pay that house off one day while investing 15%.

>> How old are you? Well, hold on. Hold on.

I don't I Let's get to that. But, but Trent, I'm not sure that we've we've landed for yourself why you have doubt about taking this better job with with better opportunities for your family.

because of the the opportunity that I

currently have to build my retirement.

>> That's not that's not the reason. It's not for a 401k. What makes you so freaked out about this retirement account that you're shoving 40% of your money into it?

>> Uh I I'd like to retire early.

>> Yeah. But okay, let's say there if you take this new job, will you be making more money? Yes or no?

It it will be equal to or maybe a little

bit more, but it's it'll probably be just like a even right across.

>> Then why are you considering it a better opportunity?

>> Uh better opportunity for

my kids and my family. So like there

currently am >> uh give me specifics.

>> Specifics. So, um, like activities as

far as like sporting activities, getting them involved in extracurricular.

>> Okay. So, better quality of life, we can say that. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Let me come back to it. Let's call this company XYZ, and I'm not I'm not totally cutting you off, George, but I I feel like we're stuck here, Trent. Does company XYZ have a retirement program so

that the day you come in there they start you start contributing through them just like you are now.

>> Well, it the it is through my company.

So they do a they match up to 3%. And

then so >> Okay. This is through your current company, >> correct? And it is this the the company I'd be going to is the same company.

It's just a different location.

>> So, he's just saying he's gonna have less money because it's a higher cost of living, so he can't put as much into the 401k. That's the only thing here that you're >> Well, I I missed that part because I thought there was opportunity for you to grow financially in this job.

>> And I would make the case with your employer that, hey, if I'm going to make this move to a higher cost living area, move my family, there needs to I need more compensation for this

>> to then cover the higher expenses. I think that's a fair thing to negotiate.

>> It's fair, but at the same time, Trent, if this is better quality of life for your family and you're still in good shape, and George, you were going to go to the numbers here to show the key is, can you live off of $80,000 in this new city, can you cover all of your bills?

>> Uh, yes, we can. My wife and I are we're >> Do you have any debt? >> Very smart with >> No, no debt at all. >> How much do you have in savings for an emergency fund?

Uh, we have 8,000 in our emergency fund and I have around

42,000 in our savings.

>> So, you have 50,000 in cash essentially.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And how old are you?

>> 38. >> Okay. You're 38. You wanted to retire early. Can we call that 55? Is that fair?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. If you never get a raise, you invest that,000 bucks a month. That's the money you're putting in. 15% plus some employer match. you'd have about $1.5 million at 55

from that one account. That's if you never get a raise from 38 to 55, which we can all agree is a ridiculous proposition.

>> Mhm. >> So, what's likely to happen is you purchase a home, you pay that home off, you increase your investing, you get raises along the way, and all of a sudden it looks more like $2 million at 55.

And that's with you cutting back to 15%.

So, the question I would ask is, can I move to this new city while investing 15% of my income and cover all the bills, cover this new rent, which is going to be higher than $300?

>> Mhm. >> And I think you're going to find the answer is yes. >> Is the answer yes, Trent?

>> Yes. Yeah, we're >> He's got a good grasp. >> My wife and I are smart. >> Yeah. Trent, you're such a detail guy.

You're on top of it. I know you've done all this research. So, again, what's the big doubt? Do we still have the doubt?

Uh >> yes, he's laughing.

>> There's some doubt. >> You've got four opposing goals here. I want the kids to have a better life, but I also want to put 40% into my 401k. And I also And so you've got to just go, what is the best thing for our family right now? >> And I think we It's very clear it's moving to this new city. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And you'll be fine on retirement. I'm really not worried about that. You're in great shape. If you keep staying out of debt, you worked your butt off. You're going to keep getting raises. That's right. You're going to get a home. You're going to pay that home off in the next 15 years and then you have a paid for home and two million bucks in the bank in your 50s. >> Where's your wife at on this decision?

uh she is leaning more towards the

uh retirement putting more into the retirement which is why I'm I'm hesitant >> and not okay see this is information that I was trying to dig from you earlier >> but I think we need to get to the root of why she's so worried about that because you guys are on track to become multi-millionaires and so I think there is an unhealthy fear that is not rooted in reality about this >> that's right >> and you're sacrificing remember the quality of life for your children for the foreseeable future by staying where you are.

>> George, what's your vote? I would vote for quality of life. >> I would move yesterday. >> I would, too. Quality of life is just something you can't measure until it happens. All right. Appreciate the call.

And hey, everybody, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 237. When Life Gets Hard, Choose Financial Stability | April 16, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel, and we are answering your question. So give us a call at 888255225.

All right, starting us off is an in Bend, Oregon. Hi Ann.

Hi, I'm calling because so I've been

very blessed with my family and how much they support me. Um, and so my dad and I

have been building this house bit by bit. Um, and we're hoping to have it finished by fall. Um, but to do this, my

parents have a heliloc on their house where we've been using it to kind of cash for the build. And so I'm at this

point where, you know, I went through the baby steps. I started $1,000, paid off the debts that I had, closed my credit cards, have a $23,000 6mon

emergency fund. >> Oh, good for you. >> Um, and so now I'm sitting at this point where as we're getting closer to finishing the build, my mom and I are trying to decide what is a better option. I've been paying on the heliloc as like as if I have a mortgage, right?

Um, but we're deciding if we should be

ref if I should refinance it and just have a mortgage. which way they don't have a heliloc and they, you know, and they're good on their pl their on with their play. Right. >> Right. >> Um but refinancing means that I'm adding

the cost of insurance, I'm adding closing cost and all these other costs.

And so we're trying to decide is it worth it if to do that at a benefit to

save like half a percent on the fixed rate versus the current adjustable rate

that's on the helock right now.

Well, it's a great question. So, how much would how much did they take out in the heliloc that would become the mortgage for you?

>> Uh, it's sitting atund like about 130

140,000 right now. >> Okay. And that'll be the total mortgage for you, right? There's nothing else.

>> Uh, >> or is there another loan that you would >> The total is going to beund about 155.

We're finishing building the apartment and so there's some stuff that I still have to buy. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> Finish, you know, walls and stuff like that. >> And question. Do your parents, are they going to own this home or is this going to be yours? >> No, it's under my name already.

>> Okay. So, they're just helping pay. Okay. Well, I know what I would do, Ann, if I was in your case. George, I'd be curious if we're on the same team or not, but I I would move it to a mortgage. >> Um, first and foremost, for me, it's the relational aspect. I wouldn't want any level of risk from my parents from a financial aspect considering it's equity in their permanent you know their their residence and so separating it out and I

would I would push to say if you can't afford the closing costs and all associated with getting a mortgage then that makes me nervous to be like okay can you even afford this house right is this too much but you have a great emergency fund that you can maybe pull some from uh to kind of cash flow it but

I would do it out of out of more the relational aspect of keeping this separate separate and that yeah you this is yours. This isn't theirs anymore.

>> What would you say George? >> This is a gift that is wrapped in a liability. So it just feels icky like I want to get out of it as soon as possible. So what was the balance on the heliloc remaining?

>> Um currently it's 140 but I can't refinance until I have final occupancy.

>> Yes. Right. Right. >> We're looking at a couple of months. >> But have you actually looked into the math to see if you can afford this mortgage on your own?

>> Yes. Yes. I I >> wants to refinance. Okay. What is your take home payment?

>> Uh take home is 3,000, but I have a partner who has an additional 2500.

>> And are they going to be paying into this as well? The mortgage.

>> Yeah, we're we're we're going to be getting married. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Um

yeah. So together it's So what what it'll end up being what? Probably 1,200 a month. Do you know what the payment will be?

I'm thinking it's going to be end up being probably about that. Somewhere between 1,00,200. Currently, right now with the heliloc, I'm paying 860.

>> Okay. But it has the adjustable rate attached to it, too.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I would contact our friends at Church Hill Mortgage Anne and they can walk you through all the scenarios, the numbers, the refinance, and walk you through.

Maybe there might be a third option we're not even thinking of that they can uh help you with. But I would just get out of this weird relational quagmire >> first and foremost before any of the math comes into play. Whether it's a half percent or I'm g have to pay closing costs. This is sort of the cost of salvaging this relationship before anything happens.

You're sort of getting ahead of it because it is putting them at risk. >> Yeah. And there's something so true about, you know, when scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender.

Thanksgiving dinner together. Like it just there there there's just this money piece in the middle of it that is there.

>> You go on a honeymoon after you get married and they go, "Wow, look at that nice vacation they took while they owe us $140,000." >> Yeah. That they could have put toward the key. Yeah. And and even if it's all goodwill, there's still a there there's a new label on your parents like whether you like it or not that they are your bank, you know?

And so there's just there's the separation of that. Like let them just be your parents. Don't rope them in um with all this. I mean it's very generous of them.

You know, I probably wouldn't have even, you know, we wouldn't suggest a Hilo to to do this, but you know, like it sounds like you guys have a great relationship. You've worked really well, but I you know, I would I would have my parents be my parents and uh not my lender.

Tampa? Did I say that correctly?

>> Yes, you did. >> Oh, wonderful. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Yeah. So, my husband and I just paid off about 70,000 in debt.

>> Awesome. >> Congratulations. Seven months.

>> Amazing. >> In seven months, >> I kind of know. >> Is that what you said? >> Yeah. Seven months. >> Oh my gosh. Impressive. >> Did y'all sell something or how did you get the the 7K per month?

>> Um, he has a good job in finance. He does mortgages. >> Oh, good. Okay. Good for you guys.

That's awesome. Great.

>> So, all thing all thanks to him. Um, and

so we kind of want to know when we can go on vacation. We haven't been since

we've been together for four years.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> how much more like >> we have two cars, but other than that, that's >> how much is it about it >> together? Probably about 70.

>> Okay. So, another seven months. Um, then

yeah, you would get the green light from us. Uh ideally you would have some money saved in an emergency fund before you do the vacation. So it may be one more year um for you all from you know if you're doing the the Ramsay plan that's what we would what we would recommend. No vacations or anything while on baby step two while you're paying off debt.

Everything goes to get out of debt.

>> Um >> okay including the cars. Okay.

>> Yep. Including the cars. Everything but the house. And then okay ideally again having some emergency fund. um you know

we say three to six months but that three month but what you guys may be able to do in >> you know I don't know >> yeah if you're saving you sock away 10 grand a month once all of those payments are gone even the car payments you'll save that emergency fund a couple of months max >> so I I would plan uh for next summer

>> it's a 2027 trip make it a big one >> a May go in May >> what's your household >> income what um well I mean it's

obviously varies because of sales But

before taxes, like 25 to 30k a month.

>> Fantastic. >> Yep. That's great. >> Making a couple hundred grand, you can go on a real nice trip. And so use that.

Dangle this carrot. >> How do we know the budget for that?

>> I mean, if you pay cash, you're not spending 50 grand and you got other financial goals, so let's make it reasonable, but also you guys make 360 grand. It's okay to go on a trip that costs 5 or 10 grand. >> Yeah. Oh, easily.

Yeah, for sure. Just save up and pay cash for it. And and it's kind of the mentality of if that if you put that money, you know, on a table and burned it and it was just all gone, like would it emotionally affect you?

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joined me.comy.

Up next is Brad in Atlanta. Hi Brad.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Well, I um of course me and my wife and

daughter, we live in our home and whatnot. We have a mortgage. Uh we also

have 33,000 in secured and unsecured

debt. Uh let's see. I think my wife is

looks like this to get a lawsuit unfortunately over some medical bills.

Um, >> is the lawsuit already happening?

>> No, not yet. It's it's under the collections, you know, it's under the phone calls and that kind of thing.

>> Okay. When when you're done with this call, would you please reach out to our friends at Guardian Litigation cuz they help with exact situations like this and fight for you. They know your consumer rights. They'll help you settle the debts. So, please go to guardianlit.com after this. Reach out to them. I think they can help you through this process.

>> Oh, okay. All right. Thank you so much.

Appreciate that. Okay. So, walk us through this. You got 33K in debt and you guys can't make the payments.

>> Uh, we are everything, you know, between the light bill, the mortgage, we have a second mortgage as well. And then all of the other debt, everything comes, you know, at different times and it's just they're all scattered. So, we're not able to save a dime basically. It's like

we're we're paycheck to paycheck. But um

in 13 I was diagnosed with cancer.

>> And so between I've I've survived cancer

four different times, believe it or not.

>> And uh so actually I'm having my wife's kidney with me.

>> Um but nevertheless, that's where the

secured and unsecured debt because my wife takes care of the bills every month, blah blah blah. But then through 13 through 16, on work, off work, on work, back at work, you know, that kind of thing. It's like >> a very variable income. >> So Brad, right now, what are you guys bringing in a month?

>> Um, let's see. A month is for me

roughly 4,000.

>> Okay. >> Uh, and hers in a month is roughly,

let's just go with 2,000, maybe 21,00.

>> Okay. And did you say you have a son or a child living with you all?

>> I have a 18year-old daughter.

>> A daughter. Okay. And she's 18 living there too. Okay. Okay. Gotcha.

>> Yeah. She And of course she's she's wanting to move out so bad she can't stand it. >> Oh, sweet girl. Yes. Well, um, so one

thing that you can possibly do, Brad, is when these bills hit, depending on which part of the month, you may be able to call um, the companies, even utilities,

like that kind of thing, and see if you can get a restructured schedule to at

least get to this point where when a paycheck hits, you have enough in the account to pay, right? Because if you have nothing, all the bills hit and one paycheck doesn't cover all the bills, then you're stuck, right? Um, so there there's one option, yes, to kind of reschedu when those payments hit and see if they can help you do that. Um and then the other option is for a few

months even just taking a side hustle you or your wife. Um, and you know,

putting some money aside, even you know, 3 4,000 if you can, and letting that be

the bucket at which you pull money just to get you guys afloat because yeah, we don't want you to get behind on anything obviously. And so there either has to be a pullback on expenses or andor an up on income if you're not

able to kind of get to this point of scheduling. But even if they're scheduled the right way, the fact you guys can't save in general tells me when end of the equation has to change. Yeah, it's a good band-aid to get your head above water, but there's there may be some deeper issues here with these payments. So, what is the mortgage payment?

>> Uh, the mortgage payment is

uh 850. I think it's 850 a month. Then

you have the second mortgage, which is another 250 or so. 250, 275.

>> Okay. And then on top of that, you got the 33,000 in consumer debt.

>> Yeah, that is insecured and unsecured.

my truck's on it and so forth.

>> What's the truck worth and what do you owe? >> Uh oh, shoot. Um I haven't really looked

to see what the truck is worth. Um it's

probably rubbed 5,000, I guess. Oh, >> okay. So, it's not worth much. What do you owe on it?

>> Nothing. Nothing. It's just in a secured debt. I mean, I did have the title until we had to get a loan to specify >> Oh, you did like a title loan against it.

>> Almost. It's like a security finance which they take titles and things like that for loan >> I've seen those look like old Pizza Huts. They they'll give you a check and they'll still they'll still hang on to your title until you pay it back. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. How much is on that debt? Cuz I don't want you to lose your truck.

>> Uh that one is 19,000. That's actually the bulk of the secured debt is 19

grand. >> Man, >> I'm not sure what the payoff is. It's probably a little less, but but yeah.

>> Yeah. And what's the interest rate on that? Do you know?

>> I don't I'm don't I'm sure I'm assuming it's very high as always.

>> Yeah, usually those.

>> Okay. So, what are the total payments just to make the minimum payments on all the debts in your life right now? What does that cost you a month?

>> Uh I'm sorry, that one went over my head.

>> That's okay. I'm I'm trying to figure out your $6,000 coming in. You got a little over about,00 going towards these mortgages and that should still leave a good chunk to pay the minimums on the debts, cover your bills, put food on the table. So, we're trying to figure out where the rest of the money is going to see if there's room or not. >> Yeah. $4,900.

Where is that going, do you think, throughout the month?

>> Right. Yeah, you you would think so. I mean, that's what I was think, you know, that's what I would think, too. But like I say, it's it's like paycheck comes and

then it's got to go out. It's got to go out to say, you know, one of the debts

and then um maybe car insurance or

something. I'm just using some >> game examples. For sure. Yeah. Life is going to happen. Are you guys on a pretty detailed budget, Brad? Do you know exactly where your money's going for? >> No, ma'am. Unfortunately, not by Yeah, I

think that may really help you, Brad. If you hang on the line, Christian's going to pick up because I think the budget could be the silver bullet in this whole situation because you got $4,900 left.

And yes, you will get payments that hit, but I also, it's amazing how much money can leave if you don't have a plan for it. And so, I do wonder if you guys are tighten up and actually say, "Hey, let's let's be on a really strict budget and we're like not going out to eat. We're not spending anything on anything we don't need. It is just going to go to these things.

And I wonder how much will be left in margin at the at the bottom of that every dollar budget. So >> yeah, because I see on the screen here it says, should I sell my house to pay off the debt? I would not do that until we've tried everything else. We've solved the behaviors.

We try to get out of this debt. The selling the house is like a lastditch effort. The house isn't the problem mortgage wise. If your mortgage was three grand out of your six, I'd say, "Yeah, this thing probably needs to get sold." So, your homework is to create that budget.

Sit down with your wife tonight. Put down the next paychecks. That's the income. Write down all the expenses.

Each one should have a line item so you fully understand. And then every dollar will tell you, "Hey, you're above. You're below. You're in the red.

You're in the clear." That should show you if you did things this way, here's what would happen. So, there's your homework.

You can actually see where the bills fall, when you're going to run out of money. And your second piece of homework is to get in touch with Guardian Litigation. You can go to guardianit.com/rramsey

and they will fight for you because they are huge fans of Ramsay. They want to see our fans win and they hate seeing people get hassled and harassed by creditors and law >> being in litigation. Yeah. I mean, and not knowing, you know, your rights and everything. And so it is really >> when you're already overwhelmed and so stressed and then you get served.

>> Yes. >> From a credit card company. >> Totally. Y and a medical your medical bill. So, it's super stressful. We're hoping the best for you guys to climb out of this thing and keep the house.

That's the goal if we can. >> For sure. Yeah. Cuz again, the house payment is is well within that 25% of your take-home pay.

So, you're you're good there. And you don't want to lose such a big asset, you know, to $33,000 of basically consumer debt. Um, but you guys, the budget is everything. Like, it is it's amazing to me.

And Brad's not the only one, but how many people call in and they just don't really know. and and you don't feel like you're necessarily being terrible with money, but you don't realize how much money is leaving that you don't need. >> It's actually encouraging. At first, you're you think it's scary to put it all down and then you look at it and go, "Oh, there's the actual facts.

We make $6,000. Let's get control of this thing." >> Yeah. And if you're not doing a budget, just go back to your bank statement last last month, you know, use March as an example, and add up how many how much you spent on restaurants. >> Oh, yeah.

Pick a category.

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right, let's go to Gary in Dallas, Texas. Hi Gary, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. >> Hello. Welcome. Welcome. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Just looking for some advice. Um, so for the past uh 12 months

or so, my wife and I, we we've kind of had a 24-month plan of uh moving out of

our house here and closer to some

family. and uh we would be we would be

buying a house that's probably about twice as expensive as the one we currently have. Um my what has just

become an issue with this decision

is I'm pretty sure in two to three years

after we make the move, we will not be able to afford it. Um I don't think

we're going to have the income for it in that amount of time. >> Okay. Um, is it the area you're moving that's making it more expensive or the type of house that you guys are wanting to move into?

>> It's it's a little bit of both. You know, we're looking for uh, you know, under normal circumstances, it would be okay. But, um, I mean, the know the reason I don't think we're going to be able to afford it is, you know, the the doctors are saying if things continue with her, you know, she's she'll probably be dead in three years. >> Oh my goodness. >> And she's she's the sole income earner.

>> Oh my gosh. Your wife. So, she's sick.

>> She's an alcoholic.

>> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. Gary. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh, man. >> So, what what's causing the urgency here? It sounds like we shouldn't be making any big life plans, financial decisions. >> Well, you're wanting to move close to family because of her.

>> Yeah. Uh, yeah. We live in the middle of the country. We have no family within about 1500 miles.

>> Okay. Um, I need my son near some

stability and some and some family. I mean, honestly, I >> I got to get him out of the house sometimes away from her. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Can you guys rent out there for a while?

>> Yeah, we could.

>> That solves this problem temporarily until we figure out what's going on with the finances. And it's and it's, you know, Gary, it's really um

it's really really hard um to make, you

know, financial decisions and big moves when you have someone who has a level of

addiction that it sounds like she has.

And and I'm I'm assuming I know the answer to this, but I'm just wondering, you know, has she has she been in any level of recovery? Has she gone to any kind of treatment >> um years ago that she escaped from as uh

as a 20-year-old? We've had multiple interventions. She's been hospitalized for alcohol three times since we met.

Yeah. >> Uh there's been some we just got done with cancer treatment that was caused from the drinking and uh >> you know, you know, two months after treatment ended, we're already back to lying and hiding alcohol. And I >> Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm not stupid and I know what's going on. I see it. >> Right. And you're staying You're staying

in the marriage, correct? I mean, this is >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And and your son, you guys are in from like a physical safety. Okay.

>> Right. Oh, yeah. >> Okay. But it's just the instability that she brings. And when you say that he needs to get out of the house, some because I I would understand wanting to have a support system, which I think is wise for you guys. So, um, so we'll try

to kind of talk through it to balance not making any unwise big decisions with

money that could be, to your point, um,

disastrous in the future, let alone having to deal with what could be coming for the next couple of years for you all if she can't, um, if she can't stop. So,

um, so the area you guys would be moving

to, it is more expensive because you said you guys are in the country. Um, so it will be on average, do you know how

much from a housing perspective you can sell your home for for where you guys are now?

>> Yeah. You know, we we owe 280 on something we could probably get 375 for.

>> Okay.

So, you'll have, you know, Yeah.

>> You'll walk away with probably 80 grand or so. >> Say less than 100. Okay. and the homes in the area that you guys would be wanting to be. Do you know on average what those are costing?

>> The stuff that we've been looking at for the past 12 months and we've had we've been out there twice uh viewing homes.

Um >> we we actually had made two offers before the cancer diagnosis and we put everything on hold >> uh to deal with that. Um so we're looking at stuff in the 700s.

Um, my wife makes about 250 300,000 a

year. >> How is she able to keep a job?

>> She she works from home.

>> Okay. And you're not working?

>> Correct. I I've never made more than $50,000 in my life.

>> Okay. >> What are you doing for work? >> Yearly. >> He's not working.

>> I'm a stay father right now.

>> What were you doing before that making around 50?

>> Uh, I was in management uh position with a nonprofit. How old your son?

>> Three. >> Okay. Okay. Because what I'm wor what I'm worried about, Gary, just in general, not only the housing situation, but if something were to I mean, if the doctors are correct and everything stays course, you are going to have to find

work and, you know, obviously support you and your son. And I'm just wondering getting some level of experience under your belt >> before that happens. Yes. And it may be it may not be obviously tomorrow, but in the next probably 12 months, I would be looking and seeing, hey, what what could I be doing just to be getting some some

experience, you know, to to move into a position if you need to.

>> Um, >> I I have been looking at some jobs just to get something on my resume. I worked in, you know, five years, >> right? >> You know, the problem the problem is I have to work around uh

I don't feel comfortable leaving my son alone with my wife. Sure. Yeah. Sure.

>> So, um >> well that I wonder if there's level of family support when you guys make this move. >> Um >> I mean I mean my incredible support. My my parents will be an hour away. My sister, three sets of cousins, three sets of aunts and uncle. >> Now, why are y'all moving an hour from your parents? I thought you were moving to be close to family. >> They live in the m They live in the mountains um in the area that we're looking at. You know, pretty far away from the metropolitan area.

>> So, it doesn't really solve the problem then, does it? If it they're still far away, you're not gonna have >> Well, an hour an hour is better than 22.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, I mean, I have zero problem making an hour dry, you know. Not nor do they, >> right? No, I hear you totally. Yeah.

So, I wouldn't I I'm I'm a little bit with George. I don't know if I would make a financial move, a big purchase like a home right now. There's a lot of instability going on.

>> and then you guys could look up in a year year and a half and see where you're at with her health and your job

situation family situation all of it but I wouldn't tie myself down to a big purchase It's like a home right now. If I were you guys, I think the move is smart and I would want that probably if I was in your case. Um, >> yeah. Personally, I would not buy a home

until she is sober >> because it just put there's too much risk that her income is floating this entire thing. And if one thing happens, you got a $600,000 mortgage with no income or even a $50,000 income. And now you're going to be facing foreclosure or a short sale. And so it just it's too much stress with the stress you guys already have.

I mean, it's Yeah. I mean, I I mean, to be clear, you know, um my parents, they are going to be putting either 100 $250,000 towards the down payment.

>> So, there's all their security net.

>> Yeah, it's a gift. >> And would they just cover rent for a year in the meantime as you guys kind of find your footing?

>> If if I asked, they certainly would.

>> I might use part of that to say, "Hey, cover rent. We just got to figure out our life." And then you'll know a whole lot more a year from now if things are going to get better or if they're going to get worse.

>> Yeah. Then I think the challenge is going to be convincing her to rent as opposed to buy. Um >> Well, I don't think she's she's created that option for her. I mean, I think this is where you really have to step in, Gary. And I hate to say it, she kind of loses a vote when she chooses not to be well for her her husband and her son.

And so, um, I don't know what that conversation looks like in the midst of your marriage, but I would not,

you're putting a boundary up with someone that doesn't have boundaries, but I would not purchase a home if I were you, Gary.

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Up next we have Peter in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Peter.

>> Hey Rachel. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, absolutely. How you doing today?

>> Fantastic. And I hope you are too.

>> Great. We are. We're doing good. How can we help?

>> So, I'm wanting to purchase my first luxury watch. And financially, I believe we're in a position to do it, but I can't. I grew up with a scarcity mindset. And it's really hard for me, even though I have the money allocated in my budget to pull the trigger on it.

I just can't get over actually doing it even though I actually want it. And I wanted to kind of get an objective opinion, you know, to see if I'm really am in a good place to do it. All right.

>> Any guy who used the word allocated would have a hard time pulling the trigger on a big spend.

>> Yeah, >> I love it. >> Well, George loves a good watch and I'm a spender. So, you called it a good time. >> I want to know what watch this is. People want to know. >> Yeah. Yeah. What's the watch and how much you going to spend on it?

>> It's going to be an Omega Planet Ocean and I'm looking to spend right around 9,000 on it after tax.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh Peter, how much do you make a year?

So, I make my base is 102, but I normally make closer to 140 and my wife makes 85. >> Oh, nice. Okay. You guys have any debt?

>> No debt. Baby step six.

>> Nice. Okay. And so, you guys have been talking about this purchase and you have the money for it. >> It's sitting there in the watch savings fund is what you're telling me.

>> Correct. It It's in a separate pile. It is ready to go. We've been saving for about six months for it. My wife is 100%

on board, wants me to get it. Uh, and it's just I struggle with the emotional, you know, I know I could use that money. I could pay my mortgage off quicker.

>> Again, I came up with not a whole lot.

So, I want to >> Well, let's play this out. Peter, let's say you got off this call and you hit add to cart and you purchase this watch and it shows up. How are you going to feel? >> Amazing.

>> Okay. You will you feel guilty at all when it shows up and you go, "Oh gosh, what did I do?" I I probably not. I think once I put it on, it's all going to go away, but it's it's getting to pulling the trigger on it. >> Yeah.

Can I ask why do you want the watch?

something? I'm just curious. >> So, I've I've been scuba diving for about a decade now, and it's it's a watch that's been famous in the dive community for a long time. I think it looks great in the boardroom. It looks great, you know, when you're diving.

>> You're talking to a lady who is scuba certified. >> I am a certified scuba diver, Peter.

boy. She understands that.

>> I understand the luxury watch market when I go in the >> pool eyeball forever and you know it's

not like it's an impulse overnight. I probably wanted this watch for >> y >> probably solid eight years and it's just been dreaming but I know that I haven't been there yet. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. So here's here's like my categories. Financial, it's a check

and then you go over to the emotional side. And that's why I asked why the

watch, what is it? And there were some green lights for me, Peter. Honestly, the fact that there is a a reason for it

like in his mind, right? Like he's been in a >> The motive is not I want to impress my friends. >> Yes. >> Or I need to like prove to myself that I made it.

>> Yes. It's been this thing in this niche part of life that you love. You've been thinking about it for eight years. It's not an impulse purchase.

um like all of those things because you can have the money and then the motivation behind buying a nice, you know, purchase that could be a purse for a woman, a watch for a guy, whatever it is, you know, could come out of a place that you're like trying to scratch this itch inside of you and then you get it and then you're not satisfied because it came from the wrong motive and then you're chasing the next thing, the next thing and it just becomes like this whole world of just consumerism.

But I don't feel like that's you, Peter.

I feel like there's a there's a reason for it. And yeah, and you've had this and the fact that it's been eight years since he's been wanting it. >> It's time. I think your wife is sick of you talking about it.

Honestly, that's why she's like, "Get it. Go for it." >> I can guarantee you're right. Tired of hearing about it. >> And then play it out.

Is Is Peter 10 years from now going to go, "Well, that watch did us in. Shouldn't have done that.

>> Wow. You're going legacy piece, George.

A legacy will help me justify anything.

>> Boom. >> It'll be a legacy piece. >> And I'll tell you this, Peter. I am not a watch guy, but Rachel's saying that because I'm wearing a nice watch. And it was handed down to me from my wife's now deceased grandfather. And so truly, it is legacy. >> And it's a Rolex. >> Yeah. It's a nice from the '9s. It's an oyster date just oyster quartz from the

90s. And it like it makes me feel like it it makes me feel closer to something bigger than myself, if that makes sense.

>> Wow. And I don't feel like it's a flex because if you know me, you know I'm like Mr. Frugal. So no one's like, "Whoa, look at old >> smooth talking camel over there." >> Doing well, George. >> Peter, what's your net worth?

>> Uh, so we've got we still owe 140 on our

house. The house is worth uh probably

350ish. Um, and then we've got 83,000

between our retirement accounts.

>> Okay. So you're >> and I'm 28. My or 29, my wife is 28.

We're towards the beginning of saving, but I think we'll be just fine.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're on your way to baby steps millionaire. I think you'll get there in your 30s without any issue. And this watch is not going to be the make or break.

So, >> I would love for you like right now just to get online, buy it. You know, that'd be fun. >> It's always the people who we want to give green lights to have the hardest time. And it's the people who should not do it who are like, I'm gonna do it anyways.

>> I'm gonna do it anyways. H we're excited for you, Peter. Enjoy the watch. Enjoy the watch.

All right. Let's go to John in Springfield. Hi, John. welcome to the show.

>> Hi there.

>> Absolutely. How can we help? >> Um, real quick, I I got an unpaid medical debt and I wanted your opinion.

So, in the summer of 2023, I had the uh necessity to take a trip in

an ambulance to the ER.

>> Um, I'm I'm single, live alone, so I you know, I'd rather cut off my leg than do that, but that's where I was. and and so

so you know time passes I I get the bill

for the ER and you know that's not cheap. I pay it. Um a little while later

I get a bill for the ambulance and it's $1695.

>> Okay. >> Take me the two miles over there and I get that. >> Um so you know what caught my attention

is my health insurer paid nothing. They

paid zero dollars of that and I was

confused. Um, so

when I when I called them, what they told me is that the ambulance service is out of my network.

>> Shoot. >> And so, so I think that's ridiculous. Yeah.

>> I think you know what am I supposed to do when I call 911 is I'm going to talk to them about the process. Should it take take an hour Google for the options that are in network and then hopefully you're still alive. >> So do you owe the 1,600 then still John?

>> So yeah. So you know I have the money.

It's never you know I've never had a bad debt. >> Yeah. >> I just I I'm being pigheaded about this one. So this was you know two years ago.

>> Yeah. >> You know almost three now. Um it went to collections. >> It's not a very aggressive collection agency. They sent me a couple letters.

Um they called me twice and left voicemail. You're not paying >> I haven't heard from him in 8 months probably. >> But you're not paying out of question.

>> You're out of like strife. You're just like, I just don't think that this is fair.

>> Exactly. I don't know what to do. If I should just try to settle with them and then come up with a number that makes sense to me, >> if I should just pay them and get get it over with and forget about it or >> Well, I think there's an emotional tax that you have been paying because it's been in your mind. Um, and even though

it feels unfair or, you know, it's like

taking advantage of a situation is, you know what I mean? Like there's a lot of feelings about insurance and how all this works, which we agree. You know, there's parts of it I'm like, absolutely. Um, but the amount of

emotions that you've put into this may not be worth 1,600. And so, there is a part of me that says, "Yes, see if they'll settle just for the game of it, the fact that it's in collections now." >> Um, you may be able to pay half of it and just say, "Thanks for the ambulance ride." and and we're done. You know what I mean? But I would I would look to move on with my life, especially since you have the money and it's 1,600 bucks, you know, >> right?

>> Have you fought the insurance company already? Did you play that game?

Yeah. >> Yeah. Because it was dispatched by 911, right? I'm sorry. >> It was dispatched by 911 when you called. >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. It wasn't like you reached out to this specific serer. And so I would use that pull your explanation of benefits and you can try one more time to fight it and have them verify that they processed the claim correctly. There was no billing errors, all of that stuff.

But you got to become an expert cuz a lot of incompetent people out there who are just not really wanting to do the most when it comes to solving your problem. >> For sure. and 1,600 bucks. Sometimes it's just worth having the piece. >> What's your piece cost at this point? >> That's it. That's it. And so you got to kind of put a price on that too, John.

So I'm I'm glad you're you're okay that you you know you made it through and everything, but I understand how frustrating some of that stuff is for sure.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we are taking your calls at88255225.

All right, up next we have Adrian in uh

Mesa, Arizona. Hey, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. >> Hello. How can we help today?

>> Um so I'm a little nervous. Sorry. I I've been direct I've been debating to call. I'm not used to this. So um >> we won the debate. That's good.

Yeah. Um, so I been pretty good about my

finances for a while. Not saying I'm the greatest. Obviously, I made bad choices.

I have been bankrupt twice and I made a bad choice. I got a GN position and I run a restaurant and I just came upon some money and I was making really good money during COVID and I was bought a house. I got an inherent. I did some, you know, I had money in the bank about, you know, and so forth. And then I went and wanted to upgrade my truck which during the time I was okay. And then um

you know I bought this truck at 52,000

and I make about 65,000 before bonuses.

Now before I was making 75 a little more higher. My husband he makes about 40 but we keep our finances separate. I know that's you know but we just don't do it that way. Um, the question I have, the main question is is I don't know what to do with the truck because I am living paycheck to paycheck. I literally pay $945 for a car

payment. I pay $310

for car insurance and probably around about $200 every four days for gas. Um,

I was living a life before my truck. You know, I was not struggling as much. We were able to have food on there and, you know, um, and now I'm just don't know what to do. But I'm upside down in my truck about the the car they sold me. It

was it was a whole mess up deal. They sold it to me for 50 with a rollover from a previous car they gave me that had a bunch of problems. They're like, "Oh, no. We'll get you out of this. We'll put you in this." And they rolled over that truck onto this truck. And before I know it, I'm 51,000 and

I they're only going to give me like 30 31 for the car. And I had a trade 22.

for trade in value. That's correct. On the streets, it will not sell because it is a lemon truck, >> but they'll take it hard.

>> They'll take it for someone will, but I can't get a loan because I don't have no credit. I'm not good. My credit is great. I mean, but I can't seem to get anyone to qualify me for even a small loan to cover the difference because I've tried that with you guys mentioned before, but no one will take me to cover the difference. And I got to come up with like at least probably like 20,000

I would say. >> Yeah. >> Um >> what other debt do you have? >> You know, and >> I have five uh 4500 and just, you know,

a credit card and a personal loan to put some concrete down in my backyard. Um

and that's it. That's all I owe. You know, I don't owe nothing else. >> No, that's plenty. I don't think we need anymore. You're right. That is plenty enough. >> What is your Does your husband have debt as well?

>> Yes. That's why we're separate. Um he has back child support that he owes. Um we've been current, you know, we've been up to date on it. He pays every month.

We just he did not grow up financially

smart. His train of thought is we're going to die owing people. I don't know.

His train of thought is completely different than mine on that. I just

he just thinks that, you know, let's not stress about it. You know, if what happens happens and I'm like, uh I don't know what to do. You know, like we're not going to have groceries. Like I'm literally I did $1,000 in a month and I at least take $200 out of it each time we get paid >> and to do what? Um I >> to to to live on to do groceries in the house, you know, cuz I don't have it.

>> Does he contribute? Does he contribute to the household?

>> Uh yeah, he does. We we pretty much split, but he got kind of hooked on for a while he was hooked on gambling. I got him off of that. Thank God. And then um he turned around and he got um hooked on these like payday things like, "Oh, let's pay in advance, you know, um let's buy groceries on advance. let's do this one advance. And at first I was like, okay, cuz at least you're helping me cuz I'm not the only one contributing. And now he can't even do keep up with those.

And I'm like, oh my god. >> Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Okay. So, yeah, right now I would not recommend um putting your money together. I think from a from a marriage standpoint, you guys are on not only different pages with money, but it sounds like how you view life and so much. So, I I would just have in the back of your head like, hey, we need to be doing some marriage work. We need to be learning how to create goals together, have a level of

synchronization of of what we want life to be and all of that because he shouldn't be a deterrent for you in your life, right? He should be >> a help a helpful person and same with you to him. And so making healing that end, I think will help with some of the money stuff. But you called for the car.

So um so yeah, if you said your credit's great, I would check a local credit union. Don't go to a big bank and see if anyone local can can help you with this.

And if not, Adrian, then you're going to have to work extra. You're gonna have to work nights and weekends um to save up

to get um yeah, to get the difference of this truck if you if you can't uh get the loan. But getting out of this is one part of the equation, but it but honestly, you just it all sounds a little chaotic. And so I think having some uh direction is going to be huge.

So, doing a monthly budget, stop going into debt, cut up the credit cards, have this no no more debt for the rest of my life policy in your mind, um, and start working your way out of credit card debt, and then attack the car next. And hopefully once you've been paying off this credit cards, um, you know, that could, I don't know, get you in a different place. >> Yeah. I don't want to see you go to a third bankruptcy.

The third time is not the charm in this case. And so, you got to go, this is it. I'm not going to go through this again. And you know, even with your husband the way he is, you're going to have to climb out of this on your own income at this point.

And that is going to take let's get every bonus we can get.

>> Yeah, that's what's um sometimes difficult about a chaotic situation, George, is that when there when there's such high emotion and high fear and seeing like, oh my gosh, I don't want to fall off this cliff. Sometimes even in that desperation, we make bad money decisions, right? You're not thinking clearly. >> That's right.

That's right. Yep. Um, so yeah. So if you hold on the line, Adrian, Christian's gonna pick up and let's get you George's book, Breaking Free from Broke.

>> It's a great title for for the situation. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. That's why we did it.

Here's what you're going to what's going to happen for sure. And we can get you the audiobook version as well if you're busy, you know, managing a restaurant.

Hard to find time to a quiet place to read. >> Yes. But yeah, listen to that. And then we'll even throw in every dollar for a year. So, we'll get you a code to that.

>> Love that >> to start budgeting your income. And again, I want um I would love to see some some synergy with your husband and I know his mindset is one way. Um and

you can't control him. Um and I would say I don't think you're the one that got him out of the gambling, you know what I mean, situation. I think he did it. Like there's something in him that could be changing too, which is wonderful. >> Yeah. I mean, looking at these numbers, $1,000 car payment, three over 300 for the insurance. I did the math. She's spending over 1,500 bucks a month just in gas for that truck.

>> So, you've got to think through this. She said, honestly, well, at the time, I could handle it. And so, the whole point of this show is that there's going to be a time where life's going to happen and you need to get all of the risk out of your life and all of the peace you can get. And that's why we tell people be debtree.

Even though it's conservative and not a cool thing to say to save up and pay for the C car you can afford, but it's because you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know what's going to happen to your income and to your health and to your spouse.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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All right, let's go to New York City and we have Jake on the line. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call, guys.

>> Absolutely.

>> Um, so I'm just calling because I'm in a situation where um I make about $50,000

a year after taxes, but um I took a 401k

loan for about $25,000 that um I defaulted on when I got laid off. And uh I currently owe about

$12,000 in taxes. So my question is is

how I go about if I should tackle the

401k loan off because that's uh has

interest occurring or tackle the IRS

debt. Um and I owe about $2,000 in credit card debt as as well.

>> Okay. So the taxes are 12K. How much did you say the the 401k loan was for?

>> 25,000. >> 25,000. Okay. What you >> what did you take out the 401k loan for?

>> Uh I was currently uh moving out and uh

when I took it out. So I was just doing it as like a buffer, but uh I did that

when I was about 22 or 23. So I just

made bad choices with the money. Uh, I

spent some of it on a vacation, uh, gambling with friends and the rest I

just spent on bills, sadly.

>> Okay. Did you just stop making payments on the 401k loan?

>> Uh, when I got laid off, that's uh what

happened. I'm in a union, but I I was uh I was only in the union for about one to two years when I uh took out the loan.

And uh I didn't realize that if I how

short of a time I they were going to default me on the loan.

>> Got it. So you were laid off and then it was it came due within 30 days or something and you couldn't pay it in time. >> Yeah, about like 90 days six like a couple months. >> Okay. So that became uh likely an early distribution. So you don't owe money on that now. It's just going to be taxed heavily.

>> Yes. I I that's uh what increased my tax

bill from about uh like 6,000 up to the

12,000 now that I just filed my taxes.

>> So really we're dealing with two grand in credit card debt and another 12 in

IRS debt.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So you would tackle the IRS debt first. You want to get them off your back because they can actually destroy your life versus this cute little credit card company who can just be like pay us. So, I would work on knocking that out first. The bigger issue to me is getting out of the cycle because I don't know that you have the money to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time.

>> Yes. No. And I not the uh I would have to call the IRS to make a like a payment plan. >> Yeah. And I would just pay it off as aggressively as possible. Can you work extra?

Um, my union doesn't really offer that much overtime, but I could pick up like another job or side jobs. And you may, Jake, another option with this kind of thing since it's 12 grand is you may be able to go get a loan for it for 12 grand and just pay off the IRS and then deal with the credit union or bank that you get the loan from. >> Honestly, sounds crazy, but sometimes they're better to deal with than the IRS than having a payment plan. So, there's there's just a lot of power the IRS can have.

Um and so kind of getting them out of your life >> unlimited power. >> Yes. So getting them out of your life I think is feels more peaceful to me.

that is an option depending on how your credit is um to go get a loan and just pay it off and then tackle that loan.

>> Okay. And you guys would say don't focus on uh paying back the 25,000 to my 401k.

>> Well, what that's what I'm saying is there's no longer payback. It's over. It was counted as an early distribution.

So, you took it out and now it just won't be back in your 401k.

>> Well, the only reason is um if I if I

was to pay back the $25,000 and cure the defaulted loan, they would uh give me um

the rights to access capital again, but if I don't ever pay that back, let's say for like the next 30 years in my career, I'll never be able to access um

using my 401k as like a loan option again. >> Yeah. We don't want to go back into debt, though. So, considering it's not an option, it's fine. And you're not with that company anymore, correct?

>> No, I'm I'm just laid off um from that

specific shop, but the union is uh all

five burrows of New York City. So, >> Okay. So, you could get back once you're completely debtree and you want to go back and start funding that 401k. It would be the same 401k is what you're saying.

>> Okay. No, I'm asking. Is that Is that right with the union and how it works with the five bureaus that you mentioned?

>> What was your question? I'm sorry. >> Sorry. Will that be the same 401k?

You're laid off now from a certain shop, but you said you will get back in and start working again within the union.

So, will that mean that that's the that's the same 401k?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. cuz I was going to say usually when you leave a job or you quit or are laid off, you would roll your 401k just into a traditional IRA

and then you move on with your life. But since you'll be plugging back into it, >> you can't unlock the the ability to invest until it's paid back.

>> I can invest. Uh I was just thinking like you guys said is maybe it's a bad habit to even consider like borrowing against my 401k. >> It is cuz look where it got you Jake.

Look where we are right now. Never never ever ever sound you don't sound happy about it. Do you want to be back in this position again?

>> No, you guys are right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Debt is not a tool, Jake.

It's not a tool. Peace. Solving for peace. Our friend Dr. John Zaloney says this is so key with money. You can try to play the games, do X, Y, and Z, but honestly, Jake, to become wealthy and to actually have options in your life that money can provide, it's going to be you.

It's going to be you working hard, you staying out of debt, and instead of paying payments, you're investing, you're saving, you know, you're being wise with your money. That's how you build wealth over time. If you keep trying to play this debt game by I'm going to loan money here and loan money there, you're going to be broke your whole life and you're going to be paying $12,000 in freaking taxes. So, um, so

no, >> think about it. You got 14K in debt to pay. If you can scrape together a thousand, a little over a,000 bucks a month, you're done in a year. And then decide, I'm never going to go back in debt again. And the way you do that is with an emergency fund and a budget because that becomes your never go into debt again emergency uh account so that you're not needing to borrow from other people. >> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Jake, what kind of what kind of uh work do you do?

>> Um I'm u in the electricians union, but

I'm not an electrician yet. I'm just uh >> Okay. >> Pretty much. Yeah. Have you looked in um

the private sector in that because a lot of electricians are making a ton of money and you might be making more with the union. I'm not sure, but have you have you looked into that?

>> Well, right now I'm uh yes, I have thought about that, but um right now I'm uh just trying to stay with the union until I get um my journeyman uh

>> okay card because Yeah. Right. Yeah.

That's the main reason I >> will you get a pay bump at that point?

Yes, I would get a pay bump >> to what?

>> They make about uh $56 an hour here in

New York City. >> Oh, that's great. All right. So, you'd be clearing six figures a year. That's great. And how long will that take to get the dreaming card?

>> Um it takes about five years. Right now, I make um about $40 an hour, but I haven't

started the apprenticeship. I'm just I was just promised that like, hey, you stay on the job and we'll upgrade you without the five years of uh the apprenticeship because that's about making minimum wage in New York City.

>> Well, you're making over 80 grand right now. So, you should be able to clear 14 grand real quick if you just get really focused, which means no spending, no vacations. You're basically like that was old Jake. New Jake spends nothing on anything unless it's food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance, and his debt payments.

>> Yes. Yep. >> If you get laser focused, you'll be in a very different place a year from now, even six months from now.

>> Yep. That's right. Yeah. It's a It's amazing what can happen when you don't give debt an option in your mind.

Like, if you really do go as hardcore as we talk about, and make it a black or white issue with your money and just say, "I'm not borrowing money." >> What that forces you to do is forces you to look at other options.

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All right, let's go to Stacy in Billings, Montana. Hi, Stacy. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. How can we help up today?

>> Um, so hopefully I'm not too long-winded for you guys, but um I'm calling for kind of some relationship help as long as financial advice. Um, my husband of

five years unfortunately has a history of infidelity where he talks to other women online. Well, or he's I've caught

him with his ex-girlfriend, things like that, talking to them inappropriately.

>> Sorry. >> Yeah. And so things were going well though. Um, and then uh sorry, he also has a little bit history of alcohol, but that has

gotten better. Oh, I'm sorry. But things

are going well. Uh, and we're expecting a baby at the end of the summer.

>> Oh, wow. >> And because we're expecting a baby, we

bought a bigger home and we literally

just moved into it a couple weeks ago.

Um, and uh, I still have the old home

that's under my name and my dad's name

because I got that prior to um,

marrying my husband. Um, but unfortunately on Friday I found an

explicit photo uh on my husband's

computer. >> Oh my gosh. >> Like that he recently received from his ex-girlfriend. >> Oh, Stacy, I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. So, >> um, it opens up old wounds. Uh, >> of course it does. >> Did y'all go to marriage? Did y'all go to therapy at all for all of this? Has he done any work on himself?

We did some uh therapy in the past, but

um it's all online. It's so hard to get like someone a couple therapy together.

Um and he kind of just says, "I'm going to get better. I'm going to get better." But >> all Yeah. No, he's s there's something Yeah. there's something off going on um that he needs healing from and only he can do that because it's a repeated pattern and and it will continue you

know like self-will doesn't just get you out of stuff like this I mean he has some deep work that he has to do if he chooses to um >> has this become physical in person in any way? >> No, I don't think so. like and I I

believe him and I don't think he would ever physically cheat on me. It's just the emotional cheating over time.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's still the same pain.

The infidelity is still um still feels very real. >> Okay. So, how can we help? What's what's your main question?

>> So, sorry. So, then going to financial advice, we just moved into this new home, higher interest rate, bigger home,

bigger loan. I um the next day after

finding out about this, sorry, this is all kind of new soaky talking about it.

>> Take your time. You're good.

>> Um the next day I got all cash offer on the old home. Um but I was sitting there

in the big home alone by myself and I was like there's no way I could stay in this house if things don't go well. I'm a single mom. Like this home is more expensive. Bigger lot to take care of,

things like that. >> Yeah.

Um, so I kind of had like a conference

call with my parents because they kind of know about the history and my realtor

and I said let's I don't want to sell the old home. I think I I guess my question is and I hope I'm making the right decision. Go back into the old home. Less interest rate, less monthly

payment, less loan. Sell sell the new

home. I just have a lot of guilt.

>> Okay. Yes. obviously spent all this money like and I'm going to have realtor fees and things like that and >> Sure. Okay. Tell me this. Um Stacey, how much is the new mortgage payment?

>> Uh the new mortgage payment is probably going to be around like 2500 a month.

>> The new Okay. And how much do you guys bring home a month as a household?

>> Well, with with my husband would be around like 200 or so. 200,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And then what would you be making if you you know down the line >> on my own? Uh if I if I ended up being on my own, I make around 140.

>> 140. Okay.

Um and >> on the old home is um like 1,500.

>> Well, >> a month with half the interest rate.

>> 1,500. Okay. But you you probably clear

what close to 10,000ish a little less a

a month. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Maybe. Yep.

>> Because the mortgage isn't completely >> Yeah. Worst comes to worse, you could afford this new house mortgage on your own and still have cushion.

>> Yeah. How much would the would your other home sell for? How much was the cash offer? >> Uh 420.

>> 420. Okay. >> And what do you owe on that one? >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. 410. 410. and I owe uh

probably around 140 left on it.

>> Okay. Um and what other debt do you guys have? >> Um I probably have 15,000 I could easily

pay off, but I >> Okay. >> It's old student loans that I should just pay off. Sorry, a little guilty. I listen to you guys. >> No, you're good. You're good. >> No guilt, no shame, no condemnation.

>> But yeah, I can I can pay that off.

>> Well, I'm trying to figure out a way. Do you love the new house? like would you want to stay there if it made sense financially >> um with this baby? It's a big house and

um I guess I'm still like I'm still like

>> do I do I want to do this on my own? I

think it would be harder to do that big house on my own. Like it's just such a >> just the maintenance home. It's it's double. You're talking Stacey very like

you sound finalized in your in your conversation with us about him >> that your new chapter is solo.

>> Yeah. Um is that where where are you? I mean I can't imag that the heartbreak is

>> Yeah. Solo for now for sure. I I I need some time to separate cuz obviously whatever I've done in the past has not worked out. >> Okay. So, I need to um I obviously like

sorry there's so many things emotions and it's kind of all new. But there I obviously want to have a family. I want to raise our son in >> a good environment with a good dad, >> but right now I think just I need to take some time and so I don't have like 100% what will happen in the future, but I would like to be serious and make sure he >> focuses on himself and gets help.

>> Yes. Yep. 100%. And I Yep. I get that.

It's not a healthy situation. And to live with broken trust your whole marriage >> Yeah. >> is not a great marriage. And so the work Yeah. We always I mean our prayer for

situations always um you know is is that

redemption and reconciliation. And the prayer is that you know two people find healing and it and it stays intact. It's like we we want that, but also also we

know the reality and also know that you have to take care of yourself and this new baby too. So, >> um >> I have a a option that maybe we haven't thought about. What is the mortgage on the new house?

>> Uh the sorry, the mortgage on the new house would probably be around 2500.

>> No, I mean the the balance of the mortgage >> Oh, sorry. The balance of the mortgage would probably be it's like around 300.

So, if I sell my old house, sorry, depending on equity and things like that, then I'd be probably around 300.

>> Oh, got it. So, this is >> for the loan. For the loan, sorry, for the loan. >> So, you haven't taken out a mortgage yet on the new house.

>> Oh, no. Sorry. Sorry. I'm bad with these finance. 560,000.

>> That's the current balance.

>> Is that? >> Okay. >> But no, we put 200 down. Um, that kind

of was a >> And that's without your home >> loan with my parents.

>> Oh, so you owe them that money back.

>> No, because I have equity in the other house with my dad. >> But I'm saying if you sold it, you can't use that money toward the new mortgage.

You'd use that money to pay back your parents.

>> Um, probably the difference I pro my plan was just to pay them back >> the 200 grand.

>> Yeah, because of the equity. I I know I for sure have at least 200 in equity.

>> Yeah, you probably walk away with like 250. That's what I'm trying to get at.

If you use that 250 to put onto your new mortgage and then did something called a recast, it would drastically lower your payment. You basically throw a lump sum at the new mortgage and they can take it down. >> So, you're saying sell the sell the smaller home, >> pay off the parents, take the remaining 50 on this on this new house. It might take your payment down to 2100, for example, just to give you a little more cushion, but again, it doesn't solve all the problems.

I thought you could throw all 250 at it. That would really lower the mortgage and make you sleep better at night. But that feels like the least of your worries at this point. >> I honestly, Stacey, I would probably just stay put.

I I don't think I would make any big decisions right now. And if you need the separation, do the separation. Have the B. I I wouldn't do much right now.

And I would look if a year from now you need to sell. >> Yes.

Hey,

hey, hey.

So, we wish we could get to every call and question here on this show, but if you do have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to ramseysolutions.com and use Ask

Ramsey. So, this is our free AI tool that is trained on Ramsey Principles. We have dumped every show over the last couple of years, articles, books, everything that we put out into this tool. And so it will answer you like we

would if you had called the show. So it's actually pretty amazing and it's getting some traction, George. We're seeing a lot of people use it. Oh yeah.

>> Uh >> cuz it's conversational. You can go back to if you sign in, you can go back to your old chats and follow the keep going with the conversation. >> You can put in specific numbers and all of it. Like it really is amazing. And so um yep. If you have a question, go to ramseyolutions.com or if you're listening on podcast and YouTube, you can click the link in the description.

All right, let's head to Oh, Knoxville.

Go VSS. We love to see it. Hey.

>> Hey, Michelle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You are welcome. How can we help?

>> Well, I would like to know if I can afford this $25,000 vacation.

>> Oo, that sounds fun. Where is the vacation to?

>> Okay, I don't know if I'm allowed to say names or anything, but there is a certain cruise line putting out these big huge ships with tin pools and water

slides and I went >> Royal Caribbean. I bet it is. I thought you I thought you were about to say I'm going to go get a suite on the live like no one else cruise. >> I know. You can name drop that.

>> I thought you are you going to come cruise with us, Michelle? Cuz we have a cruise. I didn't even know that was a thing, but I'm going to look into that.

>> And I think it's probably cheaper than this. >> Yeah. How many people are going?

>> It's just me and my longtime boyfriend

of eight years, and he is side eyeing me like crazy for the last three weeks since I mentioned this. He thinks I'm nuts. >> Well, well, the main question, do you have $25,000 to spare?

>> I think I do.

>> I mean, it's a yes or no question. It's not a thought. You don't need to think. Is it sitting in savings earmarked as Michelle vacation fund?

>> Um, not necessarily as a vacation fund.

Um, I do have an emergency savings and then I have a separate savings in case I need anything for my house or cars, but just in my checking account, I have $85,000. >> Woo! Nice. Do you have any debt?

>> I have no debt. I My mortgage is paid off. I have no credit cards and I have two really old Toyotas. Okay. So, Michelle, if $25,000 left your account in like a week or two, would you feel that at all emotionally?

>> No, not for this or for the Ramsay Cruise. >> Oh, >> I think you should do both at this point. I mean, the Ramsay Cruise is a fraction of the cost of this one, so I think you can afford both, honestly. But we'd love to have you either way. You can afford this. >> I love your answer. He said that if I can get you guys to say that I can afford this, he will stop side eyeing me. And now I have another cruise.

>> Wait, are you paying his tab or is he chipping into this?

>> I am willing to pay every bit of this. I

am a semisuccessful small business owner and he is a huge huge reason why he

works with me uh two days a week. He does have his own full-time job going on, but he works with me his two days off and he takes no payment at all.

>> Oh wow. Eight years. So, this is you repaying him for the unpaid labor.

>> This is a big huge thank you. And I want to do this and I want to get out of here for the winter. Our jobs are very seasonal. So, we really slow down in December and January.

So, it wouldn't even be affecting our work. Like, we already have the time off. >> You got downtime. >> And you're able to to if you have to put a little bit of money away too between now and then, you could.

I mean, I know you probably have to put a deposit down on the trip, but in general, >> I do. >> Yeah. Yes.

I would be so looking forward to it.

>> Yeah. Trade that number for an experience. Let's go. Now, I'm I'm curious. Eight years you've been dating him. Are there plans to get married? Is there a reason you guys don't want to or one of you doesn't want to? >> Well, we have discussed it. Uh, we're

both in our late 40s and we both own our

own home and I think we're just kind of neither of us are ready to give up our own homes yet.

>> Got it. So, you don't he doesn't want to move in with you. You don't want to move in with him >> versus an eternal relationship. You know, >> this is just an eternal relationship of helping and love. >> He's married to his house.

>> He's married to his house. >> Yeah. He values the house. Y'all value the house more than each other. Just saying. >> What better place to propose than his fancy cruise or on the Ramsay cruise?

We'd love a proposal. I know.

>> I think he's actually more into the idea of getting married than I am. But I

don't know. He He would have to ask for something really good. Not necessarily jewelry. Maybe a nice handbag.

>> Oh, you know what? That's the new proposal in 2026. We propose with a Louis. >> Oh my gosh. >> I'm okay with that. >> She's Michelle, you're funny.

>> This is so fun. I I love her spirit.

You've done so well, Michelle. You've got green lights from us. This is the way to do it. You're baby step seven.

It's your time to live like no one else because you've lived like no one else. You got no debt. You saved up. This is a drop in the bucket for you. >> I think you can afford it, Michelle. And go to ramiesolutions.com and check out the live like no one else cruise. March of 2027, we're going to be setting sail.

So, come hang out with us, too, because you're on baby steps for and beyond.

>> And you don't have to go with him. If he's going to side eye you, you come alone. We'll be your we'll be your plus one. >> Amen. All right, let's go to Greenville.

And we have Jenny on the line. Hi, Jenny. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Um, well, my husband and I got married like a month ago and we're so excited.

>> Congratulations. >> We just Thank you. We just um like went to the bank and joined all our finances um because I kind of made them. But um

we knew it going into our marriage that we were coming from two different places. Um, and I'm hoping you guys can

help me kind of get him on the same

wavelength as me. Um, he came in with a

little more debt than I have. Um, and I

came in with more savings than he has.

And I'm hoping that we can pay off all the debt. Yeah. >> But I think he sees it as um like I

don't know, me coming in and taking over control. So, I want him to like be on my page, but I want him to think it was his idea. >> Oh, >> wow. >> Welcome to Welcome to Marriage, Georgia.

>> So, how would we manipulate your husband into being okay with this?

>> No, it's not manipulation. It's just taking away guilt cuz he's kind of apologized like for, you know, >> that he feels guilty about it, you know, and I >> Right. And I don't want to like start paying things off yet if he's not on board, but >> Sure. Well, I think the value system needs to be aligned and and I think you guys can talk about that and and you can speak from your experience, Jenny, of what how you want to see money going forward.

You're creating a life together. You guys are starting, you know, starting off and just to say, you know, I want a life that is um that I have lots of margin and lots of peace with money. I don't need to live up to the edge and and above and beyond what we make. And so, I don't want debt to be part of the picture.

and what and just paint a picture, Jenny, of what that does for you. And then he you need to be able to talk to him and he needs to be able to communicate what he sees, what he thinks. And yeah, it may not happen in the first conversation.

And realistically, yes, you will be using some of your savings for that. But if he has guilt over that, you know, number one, you can't fix that. That's going to be his issues to work in. But also, I see that as marriage. I'm like, you take on the other person's stuff.

Like when you get married, you're choosing to combine lives, the good and the bad, the past mistakes, the thing, you know what I mean? Like all of it. Like you are choosing to combine a life together. >> Past, present, future. >> Yeah. And money is money is part of that. And so it's kind of this, you know, entry into marriage, if you will, you know, but it's there with numbers instead of emotions, I guess.

>> Right. Right. I just don't want to like put a damper on his confidence, you know? >> Yeah.

Well, as a man, he has this like bow up. I want to provide. I want to, you know, give my wife security. And so this makes him feel a little bit small for him to be in the weaker position and to you for you to be in the place of strength.

And you're your entire vibe here is not giving guilt. Like I don't know how you could share any of this with him the way you're sharing it. And he goes, "Man, you made me feel so bad." >> Yeah. It's his stuff.

And it's the thing, too, like there's going to be weakness in life. And so, yeah, his ego may be bruised a little bit, but that actually shows a level of humility to say, "Hey, I'm like surrendering all of this and like I hate there's some guilt behind this and some shame and and I hate this and like this is what it's doing to me." You know what I mean? Like, and you guys talk through it. Um, and it's amazing what can happen when you just say those things out loud.

And so, it is not it's not weakness in my opinion at all because it it is what it is.

and to build wealth as quickly as possible. And so we want to do this together. >> I like that. Don't focus on the debt.

Focus on the future. And part of that is becoming debtree. What's the fastest way to get there? Let's look at our resources. Great. We can knock out this debt. >> We're all one. Let's move forward.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we are taking your calls at88255225.

All right, let's go to Ken in Little Rock. Hi Ken, welcome to the show.

>> Hi guys, how's it going? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

I just recently learned about money and I continue to try to learn about it and I'm trying to figure out how I want to

position my income to pay off the debt that I have.

>> All right, sounds good. Well, how much debt do you have?

>> I have about 140ish.

>> Is that consumer debt or is that includes your mortgage?

>> It's consumer debt. I don't have a mortgage or rent or anything like that.

The job I have, I pretty much just live in my truck. So, >> Okay. Are you a truck driver?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, what's the $140,000 of debt?

What does that consist of?

>> I have a car that I keep at my dad's house. Uh, >> how much is that? >> Not really. It's I owe 357 on it.

>> Okay. It digs into my income, but I don't feel it as much as if I was to

have like all these other bills, which was kind of the thought process that kind of freaked me out. I was like, if I had these other bills, this would be a problem. >> Yeah. So, I should >> because you actually had to pay rent, you'd be screwed.

>> Yeah. >> All right. So, 35 on the on that car.

What else?

I have about 65 on a solar loan that I

put on my dad's house that I'm going to inherit when he when his time comes. But

uh then uh I have about 40 in college

loans that I've just been slowly tinkering with to try and get off of them for for

the last couple months or so. >> Yeah. Is that one big loan or is that separated out into like 10 or 11 different ones?

>> It's like 16 different loans. It's crazy. >> Good. And the solar is one big loan.

>> Yes. >> All right. And then the car loan is one loan. All right. That's what we're working with here. Is there anything else? >> Uh, no. But it feels like there should be as much money as I feel is going out the door. >> Yeah. What do you make? Uh sometimes on

a short month it could be around 4,000.

On a bigger on a good month it could be

somewhere upwards around 5,500.

>> Okay. >> Take home.

>> So take bad.

>> So about 50 to 60 is your take-home pay.

>> Um I mean it's bad when you have $140,000 in debt.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> That would have been a great income if you were debtree. Uh so let's walk through this as how we're going to tackle this. Can you work extra? How does that work? When you say a low month, a higher month, what is stopping you from making more?

>> A low month is when I have to go home.

>> Okay. >> Cuz I can stay out for a month or two at

a time and I'd probably take home most

600 grand for those months and then if I need to go recharge at the house, I miss

out on a week of income.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So when you're home, you're essentially taking time off, >> right? >> Got it. So we need you on the road constantly, it sounds like. >> Yes. To get to get out of this debt. For sure. Yeah. I mean, for the car, can the car makes no sense number one of just how much it is compared to your income >> and how little you're using >> and you're not using it a lot. So, um, if you sold it, do you know how much you could get for it?

>> Uh, probably somewhere between 17 and

20. Has it gone down that much or was

there negative equity?

>> It's an Eevee. It went down. Okay.

Immediately. Okay. >> I was like the second I got the loan, I was looking at it. It's like this sucks.

>> Yeah. >> Um well, I'd rather have

gosh >> 15 in debt than 35. Yeah.

>> Even if you >> But >> you know the difference you're underwater on, you're either need need to save up the difference or get a loan from like a credit union to cover the difference. >> Yeah. and then go get a crappy car that just sits out at your dad's house that you drive when you come home. You know what I mean?

Which isn't even all the time. So, I think justifying getting rid of the car, I think, is going to give you a little bit of breathing room. And then start knocking out these college loans, smallest to largest, and considering there's 16 of them.

>> Yep. Chipping those away, >> right? So, it'll take you it's going to take you about probably a good three maybe three to four years. >> If your income doesn't change, it will take years. And so, the hope is we can get you making more. If you are home, I want you doing side hustles. >> Yes. >> Doing something else to create another 1,500 or two grand a month to get out of

this thing faster. Cuz just the napkin math says, I can do it for you here.

$140,000 over four years. You need to be throwing 35 grand a year at your debt, which is a, you know, not far off from how much you're making total. >> Yeah. >> So that's, you know, almost three grand a month you need to be throwing just to do it in four years.

>> So this is a mountain of debt and I feel like you you don't have the urgency that I would have and partially it's because you don't have rent and a lot of bills that Yeah. >> the average person has. >> Yes. So I mean I would I would have some sacrifices, Ken.

So the car would be my first one. I would get rid of it. Get a small loan for the difference and start tackling this because that car payment that you're paying every month could be going towards paying off this debt. All right, let's go to Milwaukee and we have Helen on the line.

Hi Helen. Welcome to the show. >> Hi there. >> Hello.

>> I am right now at least.

>> Good, good, good. What's going on?

>> So, uh, my husband and I are currently

expecting baby number four. Uh, baby number four was not planned. However, it's a pleasant surprise.

>> And I am doing I'm doing July. And what

baby number four means is we now have to get a larger car. Yes.

>> Um, our cars currently only fit five. We are going to be a family of six. And as I'm doing July, we have a timeline of 15 more weeks. >> And we haven't had a car payment in 10

years. We don't want a car payment, but we're exhausting our options to save up

in the next 15 weeks to uh avoid a car

loan. We actually went shopping with the $5,000 we had to see if we could find anything um because we have $5,000 saved up for a car currently. And uh we were actually turned away by a used dealership saying that they couldn't get us a familyfriendly car uh that they're

comfortable putting us in uh for $5,000

and that they'd only take us if we like took out the loan. >> No. Yeah. At that at that price point, it's probably going to be coming from an individual somewhere that you'd have to find. >> That's a Facebook market. >> How much how much would your car sell for >> because you have $5,000 saved. How much could you get for the other car?

So, when I looked on Kelly Blue Book,

uh, trade in, it's around 900. Uh, per

private sale, it's, uh, about 2,000 at

the highest. So, like >> Perfect. >> 1,000 lowest, 2,000 highest.

>> Okay, great. And, um, how much could you

save in the next two to three months per month? Like a could you put a,000 bucks away?

>> Uh, probably not. That's kind of like the issue we're facing with it. We could see us saving up if we had six months for it, but not the next 15 weeks.

>> How much can you save per month?

>> Uh, right now we're living paycheck to paycheck because I am a full-time student at UWM. Okay. I gain my degree

in biochemistry and come May, our budget

opens up a whole bunch more. Good.

>> To where we can put away like maybe 700

a month. >> That's great. So, what I would say is number one, the expectation of a super nice car is not really there because you'd sell yours for 2,000. So, that's great. We're not looking for anything bougie. You're not bougie. It's great.

Um, I would put that in the 7,000. And you guys could survive with two separate cars. If you got to go somewhere, you both you both get two cars for the house with everybody. That's the goal here. No vacations, no trips. >> Dad of two. >> We're not going to go see grandma.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

So, we were just talking to Helen about buying a new car. We had to jump off cuz we had a hard break we had to get to.

But George and I were talking in the break and you know that there are options. you guys. Well, if Helen hopes hopefully she listened to our advice because we get the call of people that get in a dire situation and they're like, "Well, you know, I couldn't get this. The car dealer told me this and so we just went and got a $35,000 van just to like make us feel good about it." And then they're trying to pay it off and they're back in debt.

And so hopefully that's not what's going to happen to her. But here's the way you have to think about it. When you take debt off the table and you say, "Okay, we are not going into debt at all.

They could sell theirs for $2,000. It's a $7,000 car. And then she said, "Our income's going to open back up." I think she said May or Juneish. Um and so

>> once she's done with school. >> Yeah. And she'll they can save 700. You know, and if you do that for 5 months, you know, you think through, you know, baby will be three months at that point.

October, you know, that's, you know, that's some that's some cash. 3,500 bucks that you could easily save on top of that. and you could go get a $10,000 used car. Like that's a big upgrade from the $2,000 car she's driving now. And that's just in, you know, five, six, seven months. And so, yeah, will there be three months of it being inconvenient? >> If we need all travel, we take two cars.

>> Yeah, we take two cars. But again, >> the reality of how much you are probably Well, you got three other kids. I know that you're toting around, too. But um but there is, you know, a way to look at this and it sounds extreme, but I'm like if you just are patient for five five more months discomfort for five more months and go get a great $10,000 car and you were looking up vans online and >> so yeah, I like to just go, "All right, you walked into," she said, "I went to the dealership and they laugh me out of there." Well, don't go to the dealership.

Of course, they're going to try to get you in a brand new 2026 Honda Odyssey.

on a car payment on a $50,000 car, >> right? >> Or it had some issues, so we had to get a brand new car." Or I was worried about my my family's safety. So I'm like, "All right, go Honda Odyssey cuz you know that thing's going to outlive you." And so I looked up I went to just cars.com, filtered. She's in the Milwaukee area.

So I just looked up a random zip code. I went 50 miles out. I'm willing to travel to get a deal. And I sorted from lowest to highest and I found multiple Honda Odysseies. Now, are they the prettiest thing in the block? No. It's got one has 160,000 miles for four grand. The one that I like 137,000 miles on it, 8 grand

for a 2010 Honda Odyssey EX.

>> Yeah. >> And that's fine. It's a I said no accidents, clean title. Yeah. So, just don't go out there buying a lemon. Get a pre-purchase inspection from an independent mechanic of your choosing before you go buy a thing. But don't tell me that $7,000 cars don't exist.

>> Right. That's right. And what's wild about that is that's what 8,000. And if you did our plan, they could almost cash flow that right now with what they could sell their car for and that and then you save up over time and let's say you save, you know, for another, you know,

year, right? And if you're able to put, you know, >> I mean, 500 bucks a month is is six grand a year. Six grand. You can get a 16 grand car by then selling that one and upgrading.

>> Yes. in the next year $22,000 in one year. Like that's what's wild. It's like you just have to have some patience with it and think through the math and the reality and it's and it's doable.

It really is, you guys. So, um Helen, we're excited for you and baby number four, but uh don't go get the car loan. You guys can do this.

uh question of the day, George, and it is brought to you by Y Refi. And defaulted private or defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed. But Yrefi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and payment based on what

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>> Today's question comes from Austin in Washington DC. He says, "We're in baby steps four, five, and six and contributing the full 15% to mutual funds. Despite these contributions, we have lost over $6,000 this year. Our contributions aren't even keeping up with the losses. Any advice or encouragement for us?

>> Lots.

So much. >> Welcome to the market today. That's >> by the way, it recovered already.

>> Did you know that the S&P 500 is back?

>> Back to what it was what, 60 days ago?

>> Yeah. It was like a few months everyone got spooked. It took a a dip which felt like a crash if you zoom in on one day or one week. and >> we're already back. So, no, you didn't experience $6,000 in losses cuz you didn't cash out. >> So, you're you're riding the roller coaster and right now you were at a dip and now we're back to level and soon we'll be climbing back up, my friend.

So, you got to have a long-term perspective when it comes to investing. Investing >> is for the long haul. >> Yes. So, keep your savings in a high yield savings account for short-term goals and know that your investments are 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 year game. And

then, uh, you know, he never checks it when it's up. Whenever it's he's 6,000 up, he's not going to go, "Hey, I'm 6,000 up. Am I doing this right?" >> Yeah. How well the market did the last two years. We didn't really hear much people talking about it. Like, every now and then, >> 18% in 2025, plus 18% the year prior was

like 23%, then 25%. These are unheard of

numbers. Wild. Wild. And yeah, it's just it's kind of like a oh that's good.

Good. I'm glad. I'm glad. And then it goes down a little bit and everyone's like >> and you have a flat year or even a negative year. And that's that's a normal part of the process. If you go look at the S&P 500 returns over the last 50 years, you're going to see some down years. You're going to see a whole lot more up years. The market is up way more than it's down. And it has always recovered. >> Absolutely. All right. Let's go to uh

Ashley in Houston. Hi Ashley. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, my husband and I are new parents and we're trying to make a wise financial decision for our family.

>> All right. >> Um, we'd really love for me to be able to stay home with our baby, but on one income, we feel like it's going to be a little tight. We would be decreasing our

income if I stay home by 55%. So, we

have a couple options, but we're not sure which path would be the wisest long-term decision for us financially.

>> Okay. What What are your options?

Um, so one option would be me staying home with her then working evenings and weekends. Um, just to keep our house and

our like fixed expenses afloat. Another

option would be me just continuing to work and not staying home with her um until my husband increases his income.

And then the third option would be that we sell our house and we move into a camper on my parents' land until he increases his income.

>> Woof. Okay. I don't like that option.

Can we take that one off the table? >> We'll take three off the table just because of for a long You mentioned the word long-term. >> Long-term financially that is not wise.

Um because you're selling an asset and you're taking one that's going down in value. So let's take that one off. Okay.

Have you run a mock budget, Ashley, on

if you guys just lived on his income?

Um where what expenses would not get paid? Like where does the line cut off?

Like are you able to pay mortgage, utilities, insurance? Like where where down the line are you like, okay, we are we're having to draw this line. Is it in the middle? Is it up with the expenses?

Like where where is that at?

>> Um most of our fixed expenses would be covered. It would be more so groceries

and gas and then taxes that are um up in

the air. >> Okay. Well, those are important. So, those are >> non-negotiable to eat. >> Yeah. Food, shelter, utilities, and transportation. So, you're saying your mortgage would get paid and utilities would get paid, but you may not have enough for gas and food.

>> Yes. So, that would be where I would be picking up additional.

>> What is What is a mortgage? weekend. Our mortgage is 7 or it's 18, but we put 2,000 at it. >> All right. What does his take-home pay?

>> Um, he makes 43 a year.

>> 43,000 a year is his takehome.

>> Okay. So, we're talking 3500 a month and your mortgage is 1,800.

>> Yes. >> That's tight.

>> Yeah. You may not be able to Yeah. Um,

>> I do think he needs to make more. I don't think this is like on fire. You could try the route of working nights and weekends. I think it's going to be exhausting real quick and get old. So, we need a clear path that he's going to make more. Otherwise, this mortgage is too much or you're going to need to continue working until we have a different financial scenario.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, I I I don't

mind the idea of moving, Ashley. Maybe it's you guys moving to a smaller condo,

maybe in a different part of town. Like, I don't know what that looks like cuz you could change your housing situation.

Um maybe a little bit. I mean, 1,800 bucks isn't like crazy. Um but if you could find something for like a,000 bucks, right? Um 1,200 bucks even for a

small mortgage, that would be ideal. So, you're almost shifting your lifestyle, downgrading it so that you can have the value of staying home or you value staying where you guys are. And yes, you probably would have to contribute financially a bit until his income comes up.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.com/realestate.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So, median home prices stayed steady last month at about

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and the number of homes on sale hit $1 million for the third month in a row.

So, buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. So, the average 15-year fixed rate dipped a bit to 5.86%

last month. And if you are debtree, you have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is a great time to sell your home, to buy your buy a new home, uh, wherever you are in the process, that's where you want to be in the baby steps. So, if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you when you buy or sell your home with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's go to Blake in Panama City, Florida. Hi Blake, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. How can we help today? >> Hey, look. Okay, so my question is, so me and my wife have our house paid off at 34. >> Whoa.

and I went back to school and got a degree at 30, you know, so we were struggling before and I was like, I ain't going to keep doing this. But the thing is now her family is peer pressuring us and she's falling for it to go out and buy a bigger and better house and new vehicles, but they're all paid for house is paid for and she's falling for it. >> What do you mean falling for it? You guys haven't done anything yet, right?

You're just saying she's in on it. She's like, "Yeah, I'm ready. >> Let's go into debt." >> That's right. >> Do you guys have the money to upgrade cars? And do you want to?

>> No, I don't want to. But do you have the money to? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. But you're just like that's not a priority for you. Is there any merit to what she's saying and that you're you could use an upgrade on the cars or the house or is it totally fine?

>> Well, with the house it's um about 1,600 square f feet and we do have three children so they're becoming teenagers so it is getting cramped in there but and um about 290,000.

>> Okay. And how much money do you have outside of that?

And uh and our basis account combined we have about 15,000.

>> Okay. So that's kind of your emergency fund. >> That's right. >> Okay. Anything above that savings?

>> Nope. That's that's all of our savings combined is with that. >> Okay. Um and what what do you guys make a year? >> Um I make uh we're right on 170 and she

does insurance and she makes 70.

>> You make 170 and she makes 70.

>> That's right. >> Okay. Okay. So, you guys make $240,000.

You have no more savings, just 15,000.

>> Well, I I just started making this about four years ago, and that's when I started paying and our house debt.

>> I know. >> So, you've been real focused on the house and therefore haven't been adding anything to savings. Is that right?

>> That's correct. And we my our vehicles are 2018s and I paid them off, too.

Focused on them. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> Got it. So, you've been on a debt payment journey and now you're at a good spot and she's already going, "Let's go back in." And you're like, "Dude, we just played this game." >> That's right. Yeah. We were in debt, you know, since we were 20 years old. I couldn't do it no more. So, I went to school, got a degree, started paying it off. >> What you guys are making, say you lived on a hundred grand a year. You could bank 140, right? And go get two nice

cars if you wanted. You don't care about it, but maybe she wants a nice car. You guys make good money. She should get a nice car. >> What cars are you driving right now?

>> So, she has a 2018 um Durango, and mine's a 2018 Ram 1500.

>> Okay. But you're fine. You're content.

But she's like, "Hey, I want to upgrade cars." >> And I think that's >> all the time looking. >> What does she want? Give me like a ballpark. What What kind of car? What price point is she looking at?

>> Well, she was looking at the wagon ears and they're $90,000. >> Goodness gracious. >> Two grand a year, you know. I mean, two grand a month.

>> Yeah. No. Yeah. No payments here.

We're not We're not going to be going down that road with her. But you guys could save up. Get a you know, a used one if you want to look. I feel like they don't have great reset.

Why do I feel like >> Here's the thing. Nobody wants to deal with the maintenance cuz it's in the shop half the time. >> Yeah. I don't think they're great.

No debt, no house payments. >> You could get a 304 $50,000 SUV and it's not a big part of your work. >> 70 is too much. >> I mean, just based on your lifestyle right now, it feels like a big jump, but >> probably >> we say no more than half of your income tied up with things with wheels and motors. So technically, if you guys kept up this income, you could have about a h 100red grand in total vehicles.

>> Yeah, that's fair. So maybe a $50,000 and it needs to be used. You guys don't need to go get a brand new car. You're not at that point yet.

>> Let someone else take the hit on depreciation. >> But she could go get a $50,000 car, but you guys need to save a nice car. >> Yeah, that is a great car. >> It's pretty much any vehicle used that she wants.

>> Yes, but y'all need to save up and pay cash for it. Okay, >> that's right. My thing with the house is though, the kids are teenagers and it is cramped, but they'll be out the house in five years. I don't just see the point of getting something bigger and just me and her.

>> Okay. Well, true.

of this is wants at this point. Our needs are taken care of, but Blake, you can spend some money. Okay. Not saying go upgrade the house right now, but I don't think she's I don't feel like she's completely out of control for wanting to up a lifestyle a little bit,

especially since you guys are making good money now. So, >> what's your household expenses every month? Everything that comes out of your checking account, what would that add up to in a given month?

>> I would say about $2,000.

>> Goodness gracious. And you guys are clearing what 15 16k a month?

>> Yes. Yes, sir. Like I said, it just started because we just got the house and everything paid off and um January Okay, let's play it out. That means you could bank >> 14 grand a month, $168,000 a year, which means you could go buy a $50,000 car, and then save up another hundred grand and upgrade to a $400,000 house all within the next 12 months.

>> Do you hear me? >> Right. Yes. I just don't know how to And it's cuz we came from nothing. That was so hard to save because I didn't have a good job and then I finally did and I'm so scared to go back to what it was.

>> You won't go back if you don't go into debt. >> Yeah. That's the thing is you're moving forward with no risk. >> So, you're purchasing the next house in cash. I just told you save 100 grand up, sell yours, take that 300 grand, boom, $400,000 house paid.

>> I got you. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Save 50 grand, sell her car.

>> So, Blake, y'all need to have a little dreaming cuz you're you are holding back, which I get why. I totally understand. And I know this is all so new because you're like, "We've just paid everything off and like, oh my gosh, now we want to go upgrade cuz we just paid everything off." So y'all, so she's been in a season of sacrifice and she's been a great teammate, I'm assuming, for you guys to hit these goals, which is awesome.

want our life to look like? And Blake, you may be like, I'm great driving my truck. And that's great. And she may say, I would love a newer car. Okay, great. Let's put that on the table. And I would love some more space. All right, let's go look. Let's just see, you know, and you can just pull up Zillow for the heck of it at dinner just for fun. Just for fun and just see what's out there >> in your budget. >> Yes. But you guys start kind of dreaming and in your budget. Yeah.

>> Don't go look at million dollar homes cuz then she's going to only see million dollar homes. >> Yeah. Yeah. But but you guys need to have an agreement.

We're not going into debt, but we can spend some money and enjoy some of this, too, right? So, >> because otherwise, what's the point of you working so hard and being this successful if your family can't enjoy it and reap the benefits while they're alive? >> Well, that was another thing. My daughter's about to be 16.

She's going to need a vehicle. And I know you don't go out and buy a young kid something super expensive. But then my two boys are right behind her. I'm you know scared.

>> So that No. No. So yeah. So that goes on the list.

The dream would be to upgrade the house.

We got three cars we got to pay for.

We're going to give each, you know, maybe the kid pays for some. We put some in. I don't know. I'm just making >> you guys set aside 10 or 15 and anything they save up goes on top of that. And that's it. That's the limit. >> Yep. So, um, for each kid.

>> Yeah. >> Is what you're thinking? Okay. >> Yeah, that sounds reasonable. >> I was going to go a little cheaper, but yeah, 10. So, 10 grand per kid we got to have. So, that's 30,000. >> This is rare that Rachel goes cheaper than me. I just I feel like that's a I should get an award for that. >> You should. >> Yeah, I've seen a statistic where most young kids wreck their first car anyway, so I didn't want to go so expensive.

>> Yeah, I get mad when I see kids in my neighborhood driving nicer cars than me.

>> Oh, >> I go, that's bad parenting. >> Get off my lawn. >> Kids in a brand new Jeep Wrangler. What a way to be so nonjud judgmental, George. Way to >> Yeah. Have that freedom. No, but so Blake, you guys need to sit down and make a priority list of the goals that you guys have in the next 12 to 24 months. Put dollar amounts next to them.

Look at your income and you guys map it out. And this is going to be fun. Don't stress. Don't Please don't squish her dreams, Blake.

Okay? >> You're you're dreaming too small. She's dreaming too big. Let her meet the middle.

But let her dream. This is part of it. It's fun. And she may not get what you know, everything you want.

That's not the point. But the point is like here is what I'm thinking and wanting and seeing and whatever. Like let it just happen. Let it be a fun conversation.

>> Avoid debt. >> Let me free you from that scarcity mentality, my friend.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 13:4.

The soul the soul of the slugard craves and gets nothing while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied. Leslie

Nielsen said, "Doing nothing is hard to do. You never know when you're finished." >> Huh? >> Something to chew on there.

>> Did I get it? Doing nothing.

>> Yeah. >> Doing nothing is hard to do. You never know when you're finished. >> I don't think anyone's waiting for it to be done. >> Is that what she means? Just don't don't do nothing. >> I think it's Leslie Nelson. the uh the famed actor RP.

>> Yeah. So, just keep doing something. >> Don't think too hard on that one. I think it was meant to be. >> It felt like a riddle or something.

>> Humor. >> Ah, >> he was a comedian, an actor, so you know that makes sense. >> Should have done the should have done the reference. >> Airplane, the naked gun.

>> It's before your time, Rachel. >> Oh, airplane. No, I got that one. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. I see. I see. When did he pass? >> Uh 2010. >> Okay.

All right. Let's head to uh not recent.

not recent to Raleigh and we have Mary Rose on the line. Hi, Mary Rose.

>> Hello. >> Hello. How can we help today?

>> So, we um kind of a little bit of a

longer story.

We moved from Washington State to North Carolina in October of last year and we wasted

all of our resources doing so. It was a bad situation in Washington. We weren't making it. We were making good money, but we still weren't making it. So, the Lord made a way for us to get to North Carolina. And we had an idea of two

years to buy a house.

>> Mhm. >> Well, we are in process of buying a house right now. The Lord made that happen as well. We don't have to put anything down at all. Um the rent or the

the mortgage is going to be less than

our rent payment.

We do have some debt in cars and some credit cards and stuff that we were planning on paying off. And my question really is, am I thinking about it correctly in I'd rather pay a mortgage,

build equity, than pay someone else's mortgage by renting.

>> I think that's a a shortsighted approach because you're not thinking about the full picture because we don't know what the mortgage is compared to your income and what these debt payments have to do with it. So, I don't know that the Lord is uh, you know, in charge of zero down mortgages, but you're here. I mean, you already did it, right?

>> Mhm. Yeah. I mean, we call first

>> mortgage payment's going to be right around,550 and we pay 1615 a month in rent.

>> And what's your income every month? What what comes into your bank account?

>> Well, so we make about 98,000 a year.

>> Okay. Is that your gross income?

That's Yeah, that's our gross income.

>> Okay. So, but you don't know what's coming.

>> So, every month >> my I can give you a guess. Is it around six grand a month?

>> No. Um, so I'm actually I just got a new

job in the town that we're moving to, which is about $5 more an hour than I'm making, plus $300 extra in bonuses a

month. >> Okay. So, what's your new hourly wage?

>> My new hourly wage is 20. and he makes 27.

>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. You're making about 100 grand gross and but my guess is your take-home pay will be about six grand. So 1,500 bucks on a mortgage. That's about a quarter of your take-home pay. So you're in line there.

Now, how much debt do you have?

Uh, well, we pay probably $800 a month

in car payments and then probably $400

in credit card payments because we, like I said, we exhausted all of our resources getting out of Washington State. >> What's the balance of the loans, the credit card debt, the car loan?

>> I think the credit cards we've got about

15.

Our truck is 16. My car is nine and the

Harley's 30 something, but my husband has have he he's listed his truck for

sale. >> So, we're we're trying to get the truck out so that we can, you know, save some money that way and then we can really, you know, start building a savings so that he can get something that the truck in Washington made sense.

Doesn't really make sense down here. His job actually provides transportation for him to get back and forth from work.

Plus, he can drive his Harley. So, >> and his is the Yep. And his is the 16,000.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. So, he can possibly sell it.

>> I told him to list it for 27 and maybe get 25 for it.

>> Oh, great. So, you could walk away with some cash. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Which could knock out the Harley and maybe close to paying off your car, >> right? and he what he wants to do is pay the credit cards off because it's a higher interest rate and then we just cut the credit cards up and we're done with the credit cards because that was kind of just a >> you can cut the credit cards up now.

>> You don't need to wait till it's paid off and I would do that, right?

>> We recommend the debt snowball method because it's the method that actually causes people to get out of debt >> and it's it's all about momentum and psychology. So, it's smallest balance first instead of the highest interest first. What you're talking about is debt avalanche method. on paper, yeah, you could maybe save some interest, but right now we're not trying to save interest, right? If we were playing math, we wouldn't be in all this debt.

>> But Mary Rose, I I do want to say though, when we when we look at the

order at which we buy a home, even if it's a great deal, um >> even if it's cheaper than rent on paper.

>> Yes. On paper, I still would not have bought a home until I had this cleared out because you guys have no money.

>> You have $43,000 net. And if the heating and air goes out, you're 20 grand. Like, what are you going to do? You know what I mean? Like, there's So, so, but I'm saying the rent, listen though, the rent, >> even though you're paying $1,000 less.

That's $12,000 a year, you're saving, which is great. And I get building equity and all that, but if something goes wrong when you rent, things are taken care of. So, just know the expense of home ownership, even though you don't see it in the mortgage, you're take you're keeping up with the yard, all of it. So just know that um that that it's

still going to feel you may it may still feel tight. >> So really for the last 15 years we've lived in situations where we take care of everything in the house anyway. Like if the heating or air goes out my husband takes care he does everything.

>> As a traditional renter though that would not usually be the case. The landlord should be should be paying for it though. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. So just saying >> so we we understand the you know the the

taking care of those types of things you know um like my husband's a master of

all he he does everything so we haven't

I mean this is the first time we've rented from a property management company in 15 years and so

>> so when is the lease over and have you actually closed on the house? So, we close on the house May 1st. The lease is over in August, but the sellers agreed

to buy us out of our lease.

>> Okay. As part of a concession. >> What kind of mortgage did you guys get with nothing down? >> USDA loan.

>> Okay. >> So, I I know that you guys don't recommend USDA loans, but my husband got

curious. He got on his phone and he put a request out. They approved us up to

250,000.

Yeah. They approved us up to 250,000 and

by some chance, you know, we took a left

and there was a house on the right hand side that was a twobedroom and we've only been looking at threebedroom. It was 215,000 for I mean you can make it five bedrooms

>> and three parcels and a huge w

woodworking shop in the back. So >> Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. No, I bet it's great. I bet it's great. But the issue is if that house goes down in value, you're now underwater on a house cuz you have no equity. And USDA loans, they include an additional premium. There's an initial fee of 1% and a.35% annual

fee after that. So, it's not as great of a deal as it sounds. It's like saying, I got zero down on a car. Great.

You just took on the full loan instead of having anything down. So, I want to tell you that >> you you can do this house. I wouldn't personally. If you can back out, I would to kind of clear the deck a little bit more and step into this from a place of strength.

Right now, you're stepping into it out of more desperation from getting a out of a bad situation. Uh but it's not going to tank you if you guys can keep up this income. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And he's been in his job since December. I will move into my job

actually next Tuesday. And >> that's great. We're just >> Yeah. I'm excited for you guys. Yeah. I think it's great. I think whatever you know you're choosing to do, but you got you guys have to knock out this debt.

Um, and yeah, there's a lot of deals and

a banker giving you a a loan at 0% down

>> is that Jesus God or not? I don't know.

I don't know. >> Um, but George, uh, thanks for a great show. Thanks everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 238. When Life Hits Hard, Stay Focused on What You Can Control | May 13, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Jade

Wall, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Brad is starting us off in Denver, Colorado. Hey, Brad. How can we help?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me. I love your show. >> Well, thank you, sir. How can we help?

>> So, yeah. So, I' I've been listening.

I'm actually a new uh listener. I've been listening for about a month now. I got hooked on YouTube. You just have such good financial advice and personal advice and Mike, it's hard not to listen to you. Um, but I started listening and I realized I thought I was being successful, but everything I'm doing is almost opposite of what you're saying.

So, I had to do a little self-reflection. Um, and and I have some questions on like how I, you know, go forward in the future on this, but essentially what's going on is um I make a decent amount of money, you know, W2 um in software and my entire financial

mantra is to be to build um rental real estate. And the reason for that has been I want residual income. So, I want um you know to have an amount of money where inflation doesn't matter. Everyone right now is worried about inflation. and I could care less. Um, I want it to last forever because I don't know how long I'm going to live. No one does. And so those two things to me are my safety net. But to do that, I've drained 401ks.

Um, I live paycheck to paycheck. Um, I have credit card debt, car debt, you know, the whole nine yards. Um, it's it's worked out now that I'm I'm 47 and a little bit older now. Um, but my whole thing is can I just keep those properties and enjoy life? and and if I

can, that's finance success for me. But now, as I move forward, I'm listening to you and co-workers, you know, they're all telling me some different things. So, I'm just wondering if you have some advice on how I might shift this to to work with your program and my program.

>> That's interesting. Nice call. Thank you. >> I love that. >> And so, you said W2 software income.

What's your income?

>> Uh 500K a year about I'm I'm commissioned as well, but it's pretty consistent around 500. >> Oh, good for you, man. You're killing it. That's amazing. And um do you still

have the drained 401k and all the credit

card debt and the car debt?

>> Uh no. So I got rid of the credit card debt um like a couple years ago. We lease a car that's expensive, but I paid off my other car. So my actual and then we bought an RV. Um but but actual like

debt as far as that goes, I would say it's overall pretty low.

>> So your debt consists of uh right now an

RV and a leased car other than your home. >> That's correct. and your rental properties and rental they're all not paid off but they're all low balances but that's right I have 1.7 million in total liabilities >> how many are there between the over the 1.7 >> how many properties >> there's there's seven including my primary >> Oh okay okay it's not bad all right and and you said the the 1.7 million is the debt on them or the value of them >> the debt >> oh I see the value of the seven properties would be what >> um is 5 million >> okay >> very Excellent.

Excellent. Okay.

the negative things that you mentioned you've almost done away with and that's the drained 401k and the the you know

the use of consumer debt while you were running up these rental properties because those things are obviously destabilizing your original plan,

>> right? >> And you realized that without ever having heard of Ramsay, it sounds like and it sounds like you were already moving away from that and that so that that's wisdom. So, I don't know why you couldn't work our baby steps from this point forward. Clear up the RV and the car lease quickly and make sure you have a good emergency fund and then make sure you're starting to fund your 401k aggressively. And meanwhile, I'm going to start using $500,000 a year to pay

down these rental properties. I'd probably work me a little rental property baby or debt snowball up in uh up in baby step six. >> Yes, I love that idea. How >> would you sell some to get rid of debt just to be debt free? Or are you okay with having some of that debt?

>> I would, but I wouldn't prescribe it for you as your first step >> unless there's one that you know is not flowing well. >> Yeah. There's one you don't like that's got some equity in it. I'm not fond of this property. Like I've got I probably got I think I got 15 houses left

>> and I've been moving everything over into commercial in into uh commercial properties and I I've definitely out of those 15 I got a couple of them that I don't care if I ever sell them and I got a couple of them if I could sell sell them today it wouldn't make me mad, right? And I'll I'll I'll roll those with a 1031 over into the other. They're paid for, of course. But if you kind of picked out that way and you said, "I'm going, okay, out of the seven, there's two I don't even like >> and it kind of accelerates this get out of debt plan to dump them and roll the equities into these uh paying down debt on the others." Yeah, I'd probably do that.

But if you love all seven of them, they're solid and you want to just systematically work through them, you could be debtree in about five or six years. >> Yeah. So to be and I I'm going to ask this question um on your behalf uh because I think a lot of people wonder about this because I think the the the response for most people is oh this is Dave Ramsey he's going to say sell sell the properties to pay off the debts on the other properties and get debtree tomorrow.

okay for you. >> Okay that's a good question. I like that. Um, it feels okay for Brad cuz

Brad came from the other side of the pendulum and he's swinging down towards the bottom now. >> And I'm not trying I don't want to take him and kick him up to the other side.

If I woke up in his shoes, >> having lived debtree and the wealth I've been able to build debt by being debtree and had incredible cash flow because none of my properties have a single debt on them, I would sell enough of them to be debtree in about 30 minutes.

>> Right. Right. But that's a that's such a shock to Brad's system.

>> Yeah, he's been >> I'm okay. I'm okay if you do this a little bit slower. But um but but mathematically and in congruence with what we teach, >> I do honestly believe and I've proven it with my life and many others that if you sold off enough of it to become debtree, in other words, if you had three debtree properties and you didn't have the total

of 5 million, you had a total of three or two and a half or whatever versus five leveraged. I think 10 years from now, you're going to be glad you did that financially, mathematically. Mhm.

>> Um but but I'm not going to try to get you there today. You're you're three YouTube videos in, man.

>> Right.

>> My wife's always wondering what I'm watching. I said, "Come over here and listen to me. It's good stuff." Uh but she she has a finance degree, so she agrees with you on a lot of the stuff.

She I kind of drive her nuts on a lot of these. >> And I also think that you've latched on to a really important part of what what we teach, which is daytoday dealing with debt and consumer debt. Cuz my guess is after this, when your lease is up, you're probably not going to lease a car again. You're probably going to go, "Uh, I could take some of my $500,000 income and I could buy something in cash and that's something that's mine and I never have to do the payment thing again." >> Yeah.

Or or you know, and this is another question, but do I get aggressive and keep trying to buy like another property and keep leasing and doing that stuff?

>> It's a real simple thing. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. Less

debt equals less risk. It's a simple formula and that's 100% true. There's no exception to that proven property now.

And so if you got it down to where you had $500,000 worth of debt and you had

$4 million worth of properties, you know, you've got virtually no risk, but you do have more risk than me cuz I got no debt, you know, and and the the

difference is there's still a tiny little knot in your stomach. There's still there. It's still you still feel it and you still look over your shoulder a little bit when somebody coughs and says wear a mask.

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>> Stevens in Atlanta. Hi Stephen, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay, so I just need some advice on how to appro approach my employer about something. I've been with my job almost 7 years, 6 and a half to be precise. And I've realized over the years, two to three hours at times of volunteer work turned into over 1,000 hours of unpaid work. And I'm an hourly employee. So, I

just don't know the right way to approach my employer because it's really taken a toll on me that I've worked all these years or all these hours of unpaid

even though I technically chose to do it. >> What did What do you mean by that when you said a few hours of volunteer work turned into unpaid work? Explain that.

>> Okay. So, I I work in retail and I would clock out, but then I would see my co-workers get busy. Like let's say I would leave at 2 3:00 and they'd get busy and I would maybe say till 4:30, 5, even 6:00. And did they ask you to help

customers? >> Uh, a couple times, but at times I just chose to. >> Then they don't owe you a thing.

>> Yeah, >> you chose to do that.

>> It was your choice. You clocked out.

If you clocked back in, if you wanted to be paid, you would have clocked back in.

>> Or you would have checked with management and said, "Do you need me to stayed back in?"

>> Yeah, but you just stayed and no, didn't ask anybody. Didn't get permission.

>> They're not obligated to you morally or legally.

>> One time I tried to push back and then I got scolded. >> Well, that's okay. >> So then that's just go home when your hours are over. >> Get a different job. But I'm not, you know, if I get scolded for not getting paid for working, then we've got a different issue. Okay. But um the or if

you get scolding for offering help at that moment, I would have dealt with it and said, "Okay, >> I'm not going to be here unless I'm clocked in. Hello, that's not mean.

That's you can be you can be gentle about how you say that >> to your not be belligerent to your manager, but you know if your managers are expecting you to work >> off the clock for free, that's something you should have dealt with in the moment. >> I agree with that. Now, it sounds like, and I I want to say this to you, Stephen, it sounds like you're a uh you're a self-starter. You're looking at the situation going, "Well, gosh, they need to be scheduling more people.

I this is my friend. I'm trying to be a team player." It sounds like that's probably your heart in the matter, but then you kind of looked up and went, "Man, this is a lot. I wonder if I can get them to pay me for this." But then the other part is you don't have a record of it even like cuz there's no clock in clock out.

>> saying. Some of it is provable, but that's, you know, a different thing, I guess. >> What do you make an hour?

>> About 20 $21, something like that.

>> Yeah. All right. So, um, yeah.

Yeah, I don't think they owe you, man.

Not morally or legally. Now, what I would do is change what I do going forward from today.

>> And that is if I expect to be paid for the work, then I need to work that out with leadership and clock back in.

Otherwise, I'm doing this out of the goodness of my heart and I'm going to harbor no bitterness towards the employer. >> Right. Right.

>> And that's what you were doing. Um, and

but then it kind of when it piled up, you went, "Oh, crap. I kind of let myself get taken advantage of here." Yeah. >> And you did. Yeah. >> And but I would stop that. I I wouldn't I'm not suggesting you have to do this going forward.

>> But um >> either that or and and I would have said this to him if he were still here. Uh something financial popped up and he realized, man, I could really use some extra money. Where can I get it from?

You know, that'll cause you to look back and go, "Uh, >> yeah." Yeah, but I mean that's like >> you can't you can't go I was in a car wreck 3 years ago and now I need some money so I think I'm going to sue him for the car wreck. You know I mean you can't do that. I mean that's not how this works at the time. If you'd have dealt with it you'd have dealt with it but that's right.

>> That's what I'm saying. It might point to a deeper issue. >> But I I appreciate your good heart and your team player. I'm with Jade on that.

I think she observed you correctly on that. I jump straight to you get no money, but um but uh but you don't you

get no money, but I do appreciate your heart. And I would say it is more than fair. And by the way, what you're describing is not that unusual, particularly in a retail setting.

>> Absolutely. >> Um it could be I'll tell you places in other places, >> restaurants. >> Not unusual. Restaurant. Yeah. They'll work you till midnight and not think nothing about it. >> Hey, stick around. Help me clean up off the clock. No, I don't think so.

>> I don't think so. Happy to stick around or I'll do it once because you got, you know, we had, okay, four people were sick, didn't come in on shift. Yes, >> I'll help you. Y Okay. But I'm not going to do this for six and a half years.

>> That's right. >> And then look back and go, I don't think I like this anymore. No, I would I would not like it after the third time.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> You know, and then decide or decide it's part of my life and it's my gift to >> and it's just amazing >> to my friends and to my teamwork and to my organization. could do that >> and you can do that if you want to.

I don't recommend that. I don't because I don't think I think that's going to end up in of a little bit of bitterness. It would in me. >> Yeah.

>> Over time I I would be like him. Over time I'd be going I don't think this works. >> Yeah. I I agree with that.

I agree with that. >> Good good qu interesting question. I think so. Very interesting question.

Leslie's in Phoenix. Hi Leslie.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? >> Hi. I have an interesting question that

I really am not educated in. So, I thought I'd come to the pros. So, um it has to do with whether to just do a 1031

or to pay taxes. So, we bought um some

farm ground that we had planned to build our house back in 2021. We bought it for

$90,000 and we are planning on selling it. Um we just went in escrow to sell it for $240. And so, my question is,

>> you bought it for what again?

>> Sorry, we bought it for 90,000 and we're selling it for 240. Okay.

>> And it's paid for. And so we know that we'd be making about 150 capital gains.

Um, and we are planning on purchasing some more vacant property. That property

would cost us 375,000.

And so my question to you is, is it best

to put it in a 1031 and put all of it towards the land, or do we just pay the

taxes so that we have uh the cash on

hand to potentially build a house with that cash later on?

>> No. If I was going to build a house with the cash, I'd just sell the land. If you're if you need the cash, it does no it you're going to end up selling the other property, the second property if you need the cash.

>> We were we're building our our home on the sec the property that we're purchasing.

>> Okay. You can't do a 1031 on it then

>> cuz it's not it's not it's not like kind you can't do a 1031 on personal residence.

>> You can only do it on like kind properties. So, if you went vacant lot to vacant lot or or rental property to rental property, income producing to income producing, you can do that, but you can't do it on personal residence.

You can't roll your rental property into a personal residence on a 1031.

>> So, so they're both vacant lands.

They're both in cotton. And so, they're both like >> Yeah. But when you build a house on this piece of vacant land, you screw up the deal. The 1031 is going to be invalidated.

>> Okay. So, you couldn't do it anyways then, >> right?

Okay. >> The second piece of property, the 375, is what you want to build on. Is that what you're telling me? >> Correct. Yeah, >> that's what I thought. Okay. Yeah. No, you can't do that. >> Double check with your tax advisor. I'm not a tax professional, but I'm right.

>> Great advice. >> Okay. Thanks. Thanks for calling. I did this one time cuz I had a uh I was buying uh a piece my I bought my next door neighbor's house on the lake.

>> Wow. >> My lake house. >> Yeah. Uhhuh. And I was I wanted him because I was giving him a great deal on it and he was going to go buy another piece of property on the lake because prop prices were down back in '08. Okay?

You know, prices were way down. It was a good deal for him cuz I paid him like full retail cuz I wanted the land to build a house on. Right. Okay.

>> And uh it wasn't for me on the 1031, but I suggested to him he 1031 his lake house into another lakehouse, but he had no income he produced on it. It was a vacation property only and you couldn't do it. >> Oh, that's right. So that's that's when I got into the nuances of the >> it really has to be the same of the law.

You can't do well he'd had to have rented his lake house 181 days.

>> If he did that then he had to it would be rental property resort rental property right and he could buy another piece of resort rental property that he rented. >> But you can't do it on vacation property to vacation property can't that if it's not rented. So, it has to be income producing or if it's a piece of raw ground, raw ground to raw ground. Can't be personal residents involved and can't be non rented vacation property either.

That's the only reason I knew that is cuz I almost screwed it up for this guy and we had we actually got the tax advice cuz Dave was wrong and that's how >> you remembered forever.

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Right now you can enter once a day. No big deal. No purchase necessary. I think I said that. Daniel's in Houston. Hey, Daniel. What's up?

>> Hello, sir. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Oh, man. Um

I don't even know where to start. Um,

I just feel I don't have control of any of my finances and

to make it make it worse, um,

my wife and I were financially divided.

You know, it's her money is her money, my money is my money kind of thing. And

my car just got rebold. Um

my employer they're uh they they vet you

know their employees every now and then and that's another thing. Um

>> they do what to the employees every now and then. >> They my employer what they do is they they make sure that we're financially good. you know, like they they they look at our if we want to keep the employment, they our credit score or our our credit, it needs to be, >> you know, at least good, you know, I mean, I need to make payments, arrangements. >> What do you What do you do?

>> I work for the government. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you're concerned about that?

>> That's one. I'm concerned about my marriage. Uh, you know, >> so what do you contemplate?

>> I'm sorry. How much do you make?

>> Uh, right now I'm making about 75.

>> And what does she make?

>> About the same, maybe. >> So, you have $150,000 coming in.

>> Mhm. >> And the crisis is where how does your car get repo when you have $150,000 coming in? >> So, it it it goes back to uh years ago. Um

everything just started snowballing you know on debt. You know one thing led to another another and then there was a series of events um u a family member

passed away two family members passed away and then the government shutdown hit and that that was the most recent one. Um, not only that, also, um, you know, just

bad decisions that I made. You know, I got a loan to cover the loan and everything. Just >> So, how much other how much other debt do you have, honey?

>> I have, uh, I have still in collections.

Um, I have, um, like personal loans. Um,

>> tell us the amount. How much personal loans?

>> Um, um, just personal loans. Uh, I want to say about 8,000 9,000.

>> Okay. And what about the collections? How much in collections?

>> Uh, in collections. So,

we're talking about maybe uh I don't know I think

about 15 to 20.

>> So, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you something briefly and then we'll move on that's really going to help tonight.

pull it all out and look at it and and calculate it up and list them smallest to largest. And that way it's not just this thing floating in your head. You really know what the numbers are. You can see it. You can name it. Do that tonight. So 15 >> and have your spouse sit at the kitchen table with you doing that and the kids are in bed.

>> Yeah. Well, that's you know that's the thing. I mean I I I've tried you know I've tried to get my spouse >> I didn't ask you to try. I asked you to do it. >> Yeah. What would cause what would cause her to say, "No, I won't sit at the table with you." Cuz that's very deep.

If she says, "No, I refuse to sit at the table with you." >> No, no. Like, she'll sit she'll sit with me. >> Okay, then do it. >> When But whenever we talk about finances, everything just spirals.

>> I don't want her to talk about I just want her to sit there and watch you add up what you owe. That's all I want her to do. Don't talk to her about it.

>> Yeah. One thing I want to mention, um, I just recently, uh, joined the, uh, guardian litigation group.

>> Okay, good. >> Um, yeah. And so they're the ones now

handling my accounts that my employer

uh, are questioning.

>> Okay. >> So, >> the ones in collections.

>> Yeah. I was in collections because I've been getting calls from different law

firms and and >> because they're trying to sue you. Yeah.

Okay. So, for the sake of time, you've got the 20,000 in collections, you've got the personal loans. Tell us, list out all of it. Tell us what else is there. Do you have cars? Do you have an RV? Tell us what else there is.

>> No. Uh, I have um um another repo that I

had uh last year, which about which is

about $12,000. I also have under my name

the solar panels.

>> Oh, boy. um which was actually actually

actually you know what it's actually more than more than 20,000 because just the solar panels itself was about 45,000 but we have an attorney for that uh

which are handling that case because apparently that that company the solar panel company they they went bankruptcy

>> okay >> and so we have an attorney >> okay >> because the we have a lease on the on the on the roof whatever I >> solar panel So solar panels on paper today you owe 45,000.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um anything else that's >> um other than that it's just credit

cards, personal loans.

>> Yeah. How much >> the >> How much credit cards?

>> Uh credit cards maybe like 600 bucks.

>> Daniel, you have $150,000 coming in.

>> You're not paying any of these bills anyway.

So, um, mathematically the question

starts to pose, where's this money all going? >> Mhm. >> Because you're not been paying any of these bills. You're not paying the solar panels. That's in the lawsuit. The rest of these things are in collection.

You're not paying anything. The cars are being repoed, have been repoed, and so you're not paying those monthto month.

>> So, where is all of your money going?

What's your house payment?

>> So, the house payment, it's about 1,600.

Um, >> yeah, that's >> something's Dave is right. Something's not right. >> You have $150,000 coming into the household. You have 75,000 of it. You are in control. You're in division.

You're you're you're at odds with your spouse. Um, which is normal when you've got this much stress. But the way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. And

so Jade is right. If you list these things out and you say, "Okay, there's the solar panels. The attorney's got that. There's the uh collections.

Guardian litigation's got that >> the car repo. I'm going to turn that over to Guardian Litigation. Let them handle it. And if they can't, then I'm going to start. But I'm not paying anything on it. So, it's sitting over there. So, the first thing we're going to buy with the money coming in is food.

>> Yes. >> The second thing we're going to buy is lights and water. And the third thing we're going to do is pay the house payment. And the fourth thing we're going to do is pay the car payment, put gas in the car, and go to work. Now, we can breathe. The rest of this is a monopoly game. Rest of a game. and you're behind. You hadn't passed go. Oh, wait a minute. You did pass go. You got more than $200. You got $150,000. That's right. >> Cuz you keep passing go every month.

>> And so, um, but what's happened is is

you've got you walked into a nest of bees and they're flying around your head and you can't think. >> That's right. >> And so, what I want to do is get those bees to line up and fly in formation so

I can knock them off one at a time. And

uh but you you know the numbers you're giving me don't match your attitude.

>> Yeah. I I have a sense that what he's listing is his side of the equation and there's probably a whole other uh quote her side of the equation. It's possible.

I actually think that's the biggest part of this right now. It's very very hard to move forward uh together when you're not on the same page. But if you make 75 to 150,000, you should not have a car repoed >> and you should not have a house. You should not be behind on your house.

>> You should you could be behind on a whole bunch of other things. >> Mhm. >> Because you but you don't pay stupid whatever and not pay your car payment.

You don't pay stupid whatever and not pay your house payment. No. >> And so we take care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

>> Then we live to fight another day.

>> Right. And part of what is causing

um your lack of energy, your lack of hope in your voice is is that you have no semblance of any kind of an attack plan.

And we're giving you an attack plan. And the brain can handle bad news. It can't handle not knowing.

So give it the bad news.

>> Yeah. >> Load it up tonight. Give her brain the bad news. Let her sit there and look at the mess tonight with you. And then you guys begin to attack this one thing at a

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Chad is in Oklahoma City. Hey Chad, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, it's pleasure to be on this show. >> Certainly. How can we help?

All right. So, I have a very dangerous career that I'm rapidly approaching the end of, which is freestyle motocross, and it's uh uh you know, I've broken

over 80 bones and and been through all of it, right? >> I'm in my 25th year of it.

>> I love doing it. You know, performing in front of crowds, all of that is absolutely amazing. But, uh in the

middle of babys 2 with the wife, uh everything's going smoothly. I've kind of got a side gig in the trades trying to you know look at career options as far as the next path because I'm only 44. Uh but you know with our debts and

everything I'm trying to figure out how long I should hang on to this dangerous career while you know trying to still set the family up as far as you know freedom for later.

>> Okay. I don't know that I've ever coached a professional motocross guy.

What kind of money do you make?

Um, so in the freestyle motocross world, it's all about how many shows or events you can do per year, right? Uh, it's not contingent on winnings and stuff like racing. Um, >> it's more it's more exhibition stuff.

Okay. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes, sir. We're doing all kinds of stuff like all over the all over the world really. And how much I really try to do a lot of ministry stuff. >> Cool. How much do you make? I I a on a on a healthy year about 125 130 on a

good healthy year, you know, if you don't break any bones, obviously.

>> Um on the side trade still, I'm I'm pulling in about an extra 50.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And the side trade is what?

>> Uh electric work.

>> Okay. Good. Good. And so your plan long

term, it sounds like, is to become an electrician?

Yes. Uh, the area that we live in is

more rural, you know, and >> what do you want to be when you're 55?

That's what I'm asking, >> right? Yeah, that's that's that's what I'm trying to ask myself.

>> You can't do motocross.

>> No, I'm saying what what is your plan to transition to?

>> That's that's the ultimate question right there. I mean, right now I'm leaning towards the electrician thing.

>> Okay. Okay, that's cool. The other thing that popped into my head immediately would be that um you obviously

>> are the top 1% of the people in your world and it would seem to me that

without ever getting on a bike again, you could lend tremendous value to the motocross world based on your experience and your name for that matter.

Because if you've been making this kind of money and breaking these kind of bones for this number of years, I would think you know everybody and you know the inner workings of the whole stinking deal >> um and how it runs, no pun intended. And

um you know and I would think I would think you could get into that. Like I've got a friend I've got a friend that was an Olympic athlete in the skating world and um he doesn't skate for a living anymore. >> Sure. Um, uh, but he knows everyone in the business. Everyone in his everyone knows his name in the business and he's able to add value to the skating world,

tremendous value, and makes probably more money he's ever made in his life doing that. So, that's a possible angle on your life that just popped into my head. But if you don't want to do that, if you want to just turn your back on motocross, I don't blame you if you got broke 44 broken bones. I can imagine not wanting to see it ever again wouldn't be bad.

But um and if you want to be an electrician, that's fine, too. Then begin to what I would suggest you do is get the boat closer to the dock. Don't jump towards the boat and hope you hit it. Um you know, >> no, no, no.

I that's that's definitely the plan. >> Yeah.

motocross gigs because it sounds like you could probably trim this back a little and and rather than just all or nothing because there's electricians that make 120 a year >> working to do for sure. >> There's electricians that make 12 area.

>> There is there is just not in my area.

I'm kind of I'm I'm pretty much almost capped out on on that.

>> Okay. Then then you can't be in your area. in a contractor, >> you either have to be in a different area or you need to maybe think about another path or combining paths. Is there something where you do electrician work and you do something in motocross world >> that's not riding? >> Yeah.

>> Right. Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm hopeful for. >> The question is what's your what's your timeline in in an ideal state? Are you trying to make this transition in two years? Are you trying to make it in three? What's your timeline?

um with our baby steps, I really think we can be debt free by the end of 27.

>> Okay. >> Um no problem. And then uh that's house

and everything. And then I was just honestly leaning on putting, >> you know, two years kind of after that kind of really putting what we are already currently doing, but you know, hyper doing the investments.

>> Yeah. But I think you could do that without being in motocross if your electrician income came up.

Yes. Uh well, we're I mean where we're

at, I mean we have our our we live in the country very close to a very very small town. We have our dream home, dream life. >> So again, I go back to next door.

>> I go back to what I said before, which is if you're saying the market simply is not large enough in your area, then you do have two choices. You can either combine combine uh trades and say I'm

going to be an electrician electrician and then I'm going to do something else to generate the income I need or you would have to relocate which it sounds like relocation's off the table for you.

So now now it's okay what other things can I do? And I'm also wondering does your wife work or is it really just is it just your income?

>> No, no, she does. She we both work two jobs. >> Okay. So here's the thing. You you do what Henry Cloud talks about. He just got a new book out this week. He was on here yesterday.

What is your desired future? Okay. And you put a timeline on it and you say, "Okay, my desired future is I don't want to ride a motorbike more than two more years or whatever you decide." And then

you ask yourself, "What must be true

for me to be able to do that? That's not true today." >> And what we've been sitting here banging on is your income has to be up in the other stuff. >> Yep. And I don't know how you do that or what you have to give up to do that, but you're either going to be riding motocross or you're not going to be living there. >> You're either going to be riding motocross or you're going to get your dad gum electrician income up.

>> Um I mean, if you want to stop one and start another, you've got to, you know, you got to figure out what it is you're going to do. And then you got to say, what must be true? How have I got to do that? Well, I can't do it with electrician. Okay, how can I do it?

Well, I can't do it with electrician live here. Then I got to move or I you know, whatever it is, >> something's got to shake. whatever it is. But you can't just go, I'm suddenly going to live on half of what I've been making.

I'm glad you didn't call me and say, "I'm making 600,000 a year doing this and I've got to take a pay cut to 50." >> That's right. That's tough. >> And I thought I thought for a minute the way you were talking like I'm my life is in jeopardy. I'm breaking bones and I I thought you were making some unbelievable money.

But 130 is replaceable. >> It is. And honestly, I'd be working to do that really quick because I don't think it's worth tearing your body up for $130,000. >> Your your brain is already checked out, which makes you dangerous.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

>> Well, we can >> within within 24 months. >> We can definitely send you uh find the work you're wired to do. And inside of that, there's a career assessment inside. You can take the assessment because I'll tell you what, >> and the wiring has nothing to do with electricity, by the way. >> That's right. That's just a a pun. But I

I will say the when you go from a career

that feels very um driven by excitement

and um spotlight.

>> Yes. I when he said I'm just going to go be an electrician, I thought, are you going to be okay like that? I really think if he can find something connected to that world, like you said, that's going to give him the spark he wants to keep going. >> I I think you What do I know?

>> I got a feeling you can make 200 a year promoting those events. promoting >> and hiring the other talent to run the events and analyzing the talent.

>> Yeah, sure. >> From the perspective of someone who's actually done it, I think you can make me make more than you used to make riding a bike. But I don't know anything about it. I'm making that up. >> Yeah, that's true. >> That was just a I've just made that up.

But I'm so freaking entrepreneurial that I always figure there's a business in there somewhere. There's got to be >> there's a business in there somewhere >> because he's already an he's already an expert in that area.

>> So, it's you got you and Sam did it. You were, you know, you were performers on cruise ships and now you and Sam own one of the largest agencies in the world, uh, putting talent on stages on cruise ships. >> That's right. >> And, uh, you're not been talent on a stage on a cruise ship in a long time, except when you went on the Ramsey cruise.

>> That's correct. >> So, but other than that, I mean, you know, so you took the, >> you know, the the the the talent gig and knowledge from it and you turned it into a business. And that's that's exactly what I'm talking about. >> That's right.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Carla is in Pensacola. Hi

Carla. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I, we had a a

catastrophic uh life-changing event uh November of last year. Um I was diagnosed with stage 4 bladder cancer. >> Whoa.

>> And yeah, it's been a a humbling

experience to say the least.

Um, we own our own business. I thank the

Lord that we had a savings uh personally

and business-wise, but we have since lost everything. Everything has, well, I

say lost everything. All of our money is gone. So, we're starting from ground zero again. >> How are you doing? >> Um, I'm doing better also.

with the blessing from God. I just got

my latest PET scan and the cancer is

diminishing. Oh. >> So, we're on the right track.

>> Amen. That's what's important.

>> Yeah. >> Money money comes and goes, but you got to you got to protect that. Wow.

>> So, you didn't have you didn't have health insurance?

>> No. Unfortunately, I did not. Neither one of us had health insurance because we were young in our minds and naive and

just pretty healthy. Neither one of us ever get get sick. Um, >> how old are you? >> And then I'm 53.

>> Okay. >> So, what did the what did these bills amount to?

>> Oh, they amounted to we're well over

$100,000, but >> And how much did you have in savings?

We had um about $100,000 combined

personal and business and that's >> and the bills were about >> you cleaned out your cash but you haven't lost the business.

>> No, that is correct.

>> How are you continuing to pay for your medical care at this point?

>> Right now I have because I cannot work.

I have been approved for disability.

>> Okay. Um, I will get my first paycheck from disability June 3rd.

>> And how much is that? >> That will be >> $1,900 is what I've been approved for a

month. >> And in the meantime, I mean, I go back to my first question, which is how are you paying for your care?

>> I'm on Medicaid now as well.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Good. We did have we purchased in

January a healthc care policy,

>> but that was costing us over almost

$1,000 a month.

>> Then in the midst of that in February, I

got approved, but then of course the

system I didn't kick in until March. And

so yeah, here we are.

>> Okay. So, with you fighting with you fighting cancer and you have a $1,900 a month income, >> you've cleaned out your savings >> and your husband's running the business, I assume. What is he making?

>> He just he is just now returning back to

work. What is the business? >> You anticipate the business is truck driving.

>> Okay. All right. And so his income is going to come back now >> part partially because he still has to come back to me every week for my chemo

treatment. >> And what will he be making part time?

>> He will be making approximately $1,000 a

week is what we're hoping for him to be able to bring home. >> Okay. So we got So now we got $6,000 a month to work with >> and um so um this is devastating. I'm so

sorry you've been through this. Um,

>> so what I want to give you permission to do is to live on $6,000 a month making

sure that your health treatments continue. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Until until you get this beat.

>> Yeah. When you get this beat, then you go back to work. He goes back to work and we get in we get our income back up and then we can rebuild with that.

Can I throw another wrench in the >> Sure. pile?

>> Um, my father just passed away also,

>> so I just inherited his $60,000 worth of

debt. >> Yeah, honey, you don't inherit debt.

>> Well, it's a house >> or sell it.

>> Okay, sell it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. What's it worth if you sold it?

>> Uh, I have no idea. Um, >> more than 60,000. might end up being a blessing for you.

>> Okay. Right now I'm dealing with squatters in the house trying to get them out. >> Well, a victim and get a get a good real estate agent. Get the squatters evicted.

Get the house sold. You're you're fighting chemo. You don't need to fight squatters and chemo. Let's just pick one. I'll pick I'll pick the cancer.

Let's beat that one. And uh get a get a good real estate agent. Go to ramsysolutions.com and find one of our Ramsey trusted real estate pros and tell them you're struggling with cancer. your husband's on the road trying to make a living and you got this house you need to get flipped, then you got to get these people flipped out of it and have them run it down for you and um they can pay the attorney out of the proceeds of the house to do the eviction on the squatters.

>> Okay. >> How did the if he just passed away, how come there's already squatters in it?

That's weird.

>> I Well, he passed away in March 25th.

>> Yeah, but I mean, what they were they lined up in the street ready to jump in the house? I mean, was he just not in the house? Was he in the hospital for a long time? >> He was in the hospital and he was stayed with my aunt and sister.

>> Um, so it was empty a lot and it looks like nobody lived there. Um, it the house has been in our family for four decades in good condition. It's not it's not going to be anymore.

>> No, I I know >> you can't have it. You have enough on your plate. You don't need to evict squatters, renovate a four decade old property, and um be screwing around with all that. You need to fight cancer and win. >> Concentrate on what's important.

>> This is a distraction.

>> Okay? >> Cut it loose. Make your life simple.

>> I'm going to laser focus chemo and beat cancer. Chemo. Beat cancer. When that's

done, we'll rebuild our savings. And part of what'll help us do that is the sale of this house. And that's what you got to do. Yeah.

The problem is when all this stuff start coming at you folks from 14 different directions, you got to choose your battles. A and you know, you got to pick out which thing you're going to take on first and take on the most important thing and that's called living. >> That's right. That's right.

H she's been when it rains, it pours. And I mean, she's been through it. Uh, for anybody listening right now, the the takeaway from this is, oh my goodness, do you need insurance? >> You got to have it.

You got to have health insurance. You got to have life insurance, term life insurance. You got to have a will.

you're you're moving the risk off you onto somebody else because they're all there. Everybody wants to be healthy forever. Everybody wants to live forever, but that's not the case. It's just not the case. >> There we go. That's it.

>> Oh boy. So yeah, you have to play defense. And here's the thing, the number one cause of bankruptcy is not credit card debt. It's medical bills.

And it's not medical bills from people that had health insurance. Cuz if you got health insurance, you got a deductible you meet and then you got 8020 or whatever, right? And you can work your way through that if you got an income. >> Yeah.

>> But if you're sitting there with no health insurance and you take a $100,000 pop and you're a truck driver, >> Yeah. you got >> that's getting your face knocked in. And if you're looking, check out Health Trust Financial. They can help you find the right policy for you.

If you're looking for term life, we're always going to recommend Xander Insurance. If you're looking to make a will, we're always going to recommend Mama Bear Legal Forms. They're there.

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>> Annabelle is with us in Anchorage. Hi Annabelle. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing great. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, first it's an honor to talk to you both.

Jade, I'm in the middle of your book right now. And Dave, I'm in the middle of a Total Money Makeover as well.

>> Wow. Very good. Caught >> in a minute. >> So, yeah. With that said, you guys have

been working on me for about the last six months. I've been diving into the podcast and about the last week, I

committed to the program. I I increased my income. I got a second full-time job.

And um this this morning I set up my

every dollar budget

>> so what do you think? How do you feel?

>> Way to go. So I was I was like

relieved to the point of crying. >> Good. >> Um >> cuz you have a plan and you're back in control. >> So Jade, and that was because of you.

So, in your book, I think you said that it's scary when you don't have eyes and you actually be surprised at how much fear goes away when you just actually add up all the numbers and see what it is. >> That's right. That's right. You can actually get a handle on it.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah.

Oh gosh. Sorry.

>> It's okay. What you're experiencing is is is it's exactly right.

>> It's called relief. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um All right. So, all right,

let's collect ourselves. So, I'm a local dog trainer. I've been self-employed here in Alaska for the last seven years, and I've been afraid to do this because my income is so volatile. It's hit or miss with the economy. So, I didn't want to make any more dumb butt decisions.

So, I went out like Dave said to do, and I increased my income. I um I became a

correctional officer. So, now my base income is not zero.

>> Great. >> Which is fantastic. Um but I had a question about the syncing funds. I am

going to need winter tires in October.

And while I am budgeting for that, is that considered a syncing fund or a budget item? And what's the difference

>> for where you are? I would consider that a syncing fund because generally a syncing fund is something that you cannot pay for in one month's cash flow,

right? It's something that's like, I kind of have to save up a little bit for this. And my guess is that that's what this is for you. How much are the four tires going to cost you?

>> Um 1,200. >> 1,200. Exactly. And my guess is you can't cash flow that in a single month in October when you need them. Or can you? Maybe you can.

>> So I would have to take from my margin, which is currently all being poured into my debt. >> Uhhuh. >> Um and so I could cash flow it.

>> How much margin do you have?

>> About 2,600 a month. I mean, honestly,

that's totally up to you if you wanted to do it that way. If you feel like, you know what, >> taking from the margin either way.

>> Yeah. >> You're either going to take from it a little bit for 3 months or four months, or you're going to take from it a lot in one month. >> And the the the thing that would net effect, >> but but what we're talking about is your motivation, right? Because you're in the middle of paying off debt. So, if you say, you know, I'm really I feel like I'm making progress. I love the seeing the number go down every single month.

If that's where you are right now, then I would say hold it off until October and then just do it in one shot and that keeps you feeling motivated. >> And October is not a good debt reduction month and it's the snow tire's fault and that's okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. I can do that.

>> Yeah, I like that for you. >> And in October there is a little buffer here in Alaska because we get the Alaska PFD. So that's an extra $1,000 or more that we get from the state every every state res. Well, now we got 3,600 that month in margin minus 1,200.

>> So then you really won't feel it. >> You won't hardly notice it. >> Okay. Yeah, that's perfect. I didn't even think about that. >> Alaska's going to buy your tires.

>> Yes, >> finally the taxes. Yeah, >> I love that for me. All right. Well, that was my question. Can I ask one more? Um, how would I how would I do that? Another thing that I went ahead and did was I signed up uh with Xander for life insurance. >> Good. >> And that's a budget item.

Okay, that's a budget item >> monthly. >> All right. >> That's a cost that's a cost of being alive is having health having life insurance. >> All right. >> Hey, we're proud of you, by the way.

>> You're doing so good. >> Yeah, you are. >> Thank you so much. >> You're actually coachable. You're amazing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I waited six months to call, so I made sure I was.

>> Yes. >> Oh, well, >> I wanted to I wanted >> You're our prize student of the day. You get an apple. >> Yes. Oh. Well, thank you so much. You guys have a wonderful day. >> You too. That was fun. >> It's a great call. >> Yeah. Well, the thing is here here's what's interesting and I what I want people that are out there on the edge and they haven't decided whether they're going to do this or not. The tears and the emotion comes from not being out of

debt cuz her life mathematically has not changed a dime yet. >> That's right. >> Yet. But it's actually seeing a light at

the end of the tunnel that is for the first time in your life is not an oncoming train.

You know, we actually are going. This is freaking when you put the numbers down, the numbers look at you and say, "This is going to work." And you go, "Oh my gosh, the numbers just told me this is going to work. Oh my." And this is called hope. >> Yes. >> And hope in personal finance is the

sauce, baby. Hope is the secret sauce.

It'll make you work hard. Hope will make you sacrifice. It'll make you sell off your prized possession because you want to get to somewhere you're not there yet. Hope will make you do all kinds of mature grown-up stuff.

>> Yes. That's why we tell you, that's why we're always giving people Every dollar cuz the moment that you start plugging those numbers into every dollar and it happens just the way Dave said, you start to see, oh my gosh. Number one, you see your income in one place for the first time and you realize, oh, I I do make money. I make too much.

>> You really have been wasting a lot of it. >> Yes. And then you see the margin or some of us a lack of margin. And for the first time we see it for what it is in fact.

over. And then when you see the first step in solving a problem, Dave, is identifying that there is actually a problem. So when you actually see it, okay, I'm I'm I'm over budget. I'm in the red. Even though that doesn't feel nice, at least you can recognize the problem and now you get get about the business of actually solving the problem. And if you have felt like a rat in a wheel for so long and you suddenly

have hope, it will make you cry.

>> Yeah, it will.

>> It makes me cry thinking about it because I've been there where you're under a rock and somebody stand on a stinking rock. Hello. >> Mhm. >> And when you realize I don't have to st get off my rock. >> Yes. >> You know, I I'm not going to live like this. And and you go, there's a way to do this. And it changes everything. It's so powerful. See the the brain science tells us that bad news is not as bad as

no news.

>> Ambivalence is way more dangerous to your brain. Not knowing is way more

dangerous to your brain than knowing exactly what I got to do and what I got to fight. >> Right. Because when you don't know, your brain fills in gaps with all sorts of stories and ideas and fears and all sorts of things. >> Yeah.

We have a friend who's in the process right now beating cancer. Just knocked one of them out. He had two. He's collecting them >> and he's got one of them knocked down.

He's working on the other one.

That week is more hell than actually

fighting >> Yeah. >> the stinking thing once you know what it is. It's stage two. This is what we're going to do. Here's the treatment plan.

Here's the prognosis. You've got a year of hell a hell of you hair hell ahead of

you and no hair ahead of you and you're going to live. That's right. And but it's going to be awful. That you your brain can handle that news better than

>> I've got cancer but I don't know if I'm going to die tomorrow >> from it or I don't know if it's stage 4 one. I don't know if I drove by it. I don't know what it is. the not knowing crap, that ambivalence is way harder

from a brain brain science perspective for human beings to deal with than the actually knowing this is what we're dealing with. >> And uh if you look down and you go, "God, that's a lot of debt." That's not nearly as bad as I've got a lot of debt and I have no idea and I'm stuck and I

But when you write it down, like you said, you get that you you'll have Annabelle's reaction and you you may not call us crying, but you will stand in the mirror and cry. Yeah, you will. >> And go, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to be okay. >> It's going to be tough.

>> I might have to sell some stuff. I'm going to take a job as a correction officer while I train dogs, but I can do this. And what must be true that's not true today?" And and all of a sudden, your brain starts adjusting for what must be true that's not true today to get this freaking mess cleaned up. You automatically do it.

It's a human function.

You problem solve once you realize what the stinking problem is.

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Are you worried about being able to afford a home? A lot of people are.

A lot of people have believed everything they read on the internet, which is a really bad idea.

um because it can steal your hope and falsely steal your hope. So, why don't you sit down with a good real estate agent and find out what you can actually afford or figure out what your home is actually worth and talk about putting it on the market if you're going to sell.

When you actually deal with facts instead of internet mythology, your life will change. I promise you. The Ramsay Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust that we trust.

And they'll make your home a blessing or buying of a home, not a burden, and be a blessing because you'll be dealing with reality, not internet mythology.

See, I I if there is a reason for you to be worried about something, I will tell you. I believe in it. I'll tell you bad news. I don't mind. But I'm also not going to allow the hope stealers out there to steal your hope falsely. I mean, if you live if you make $40,000 a year and you live in Los Angeles, you're not going to buy a home.

That's the truth. You can't afford it.

>> That's right. >> Okay. That's the truth. You have an affordability problem. But most people aren't in that situation. Most people actually have just believed all the stuff that their bull crap friends are telling them. So, find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramiesolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description.

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might not be in all states. All >> righty. Today's question comes from Paul in Ohio. He says, "I'm debtree and almost have my emergency fund in place.

Once that's done, I want to upgrade my vehicle and I'll pay cash. How do I handle a dealer that I know will be pushing financing even just for a short time so they can get a better profit margin? I'm determined to walk in with cash and take it home the same day." I

love this question and I I think it's great. You're going in there, you're paying with cash. And I think the first thing is you've already decided that you're paying with cash. So there's no way you're getting into financing. So you've already drawn that line in the sand. And I'll tell you for me, I think the best way to handle it is I don't and I' I've done it the wrong way before.

But I don't tell them that I'm paying in cash until we've negotiated the price because once if you walk in and say, "Well, I've got cash and this is all I've got. I got 30,000 and nothing more." they kind of lose interest in the deal in many ways. Especially if you've made it very clear that you're not financing because they don't, you're right, they're not making as much because financing there's a kickback.

There's add-ons that they get. They earn more off people who buy who finance the car. So, I wait and I say, "Let's just

talk price and let's get the price to where we both agree and where I agree." And then I can let loose, hey, by the way, I'm paying cash. And they usually don't like that very much. and uh they're going to try to push for you, you know, even if you just finance this much, you could pay it off next month. They're going to do all those things and you're going to say, "No, thank you." And then they're going to act like they need 10 people to approve your check and they don't.

And it's just a lot of rigomearroll that you just have to say this is this is the way they're going to act, but this is the way I'm going to act. And like I said, before you even tell them that you're, you know, paying cash, that's the time where I'm trying to negotiate. Okay, can you take the document fee off? Hey, can you I don't want the extended warranty.

I'm telling them everything upfront. We're locked down on the fee and then I slide the cash over and it's done and done.

>> That will work. There's nothing wrong with that plan at all. The um the more expensive the used car, the closer I would stick to that strategy.

>> If you're buying a five or a $10,000 used car, they're not making a lot on the financing. And I would just say, you know, I'm I have $9,000 and you have, you know, you got you're asking 12 and here's nine. And if you want to take that, I'm leaving with a car. If you don't, I'm leaving with my cash.

Do you want the car or do you want these Benjamins? I mean, it's that simple, right? >> Let it put it close enough for them to smell them. >> Smell it.

Right. It's right there. Open the briefcase and go, "Do you want this?" You know, I'm kidding. But not much, you know?

And so that's the that's a cheaper car right now.

you're buying a brand new car um that's

not a specialty vehicle that's a standard model >> if you'll work it carefully you can buy those for usually 500 over invoice

>> and just go in and say I'm looking at that car will you sell it to me a 500 over invoice and just leave it at that and then they will show you the invoice.

Now there after that the reason they will do that is or sometimes they'll sell it to you at invoice because they get manufacturer rebates that they put in their pocket. Okay, in that process and then I just go I'm going to wire you the money >> and that's that on that. >> Now if you're buying uh you know something that that that is an there's a shortage on that vehicle. It's more of a specialty high-end vehicle of some kind.

They may be marking up above MSRP >> on that. Like the uh the Raptor that I drive, that Raptor R, you know, that thing, they only get a handful of those and they often sell for more than sticker, >> right? Because there's more demand >> because they can they can easily they get two per dealership or something.

They can easily get that. But that's an expensive specialty rare vehicle. Very unusual deal. So there a lot of different ways to approach this. But yeah, if you just say if you nail it down on invoice, you get the exact same treatment you're doing and you go, "And no, we're not. I don't need the I don't need the ceramic coating bull crap. I don't need the all the bull crap." Man, they can they can shovel a car dealership can shovel more bull than anybody I've ever seen in my life.

>> And I a lot of got a lot of good friends that are car dealers and and they laugh at me and we joke when we're hanging out together, Ramsey, you're the bane of my existence. But um you know cuz I can't nobody will lease a car because of you.

And I'm like, that's cuz I'm doing my job better than you're doing yours.

>> So, there you go. >> Shots fired. >> Jay is with me with us in Los Angeles.

Hi, Jay. How are you?

>> Good. How's it going? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> So, uh, the reason for my call is, uh,

I'm self-employed. I'm a contractor and,

uh, I make decent money. I've only been

doing this for going on two years now, but um I've been in this line of work

for a long time, so we've picked up work pretty quickly. Um but I'm having

trouble getting my wife on the same page. I would like to eventually buy a

house and pay off debt, but we're we've

been arguing a lot lately. Um >> what are you arguing about? as money.

Well, as money comes in, um, she has all

these ideas of what she wants to spend

on. Um, and sometimes for the sake of

not fighting. Um, I'll kind of let it

go. Like what?

>> I've been >> You mean You mean she wants to buy food?

Well, she'll buy food like >> Well, she eats out for every meal and

then >> um like she's we have uh our house looks

like an Amazon warehouse.

>> Oh. >> Um it's like >> she's overspending on things stuff.

>> Yeah. And then I mean it's like friends birthday parties, friends kids birthday parties. Let's get them this. Let's get him that. It's my mom's friend's

um graduation.

>> How long? >> I don't know. Just like anything.

>> Uh 2 years as of last week.

>> About the time you went in business and started making money.

>> Yeah. >> What does she do?

>> She's a stay-at-home mom. We have two kids together. >> Yeah. Okay. All right.

>> And what are you bringing in from the contractor deal? What's your what's your net profit that you pay taxes on in a year?

>> So last year net profit was about 187.

This year gross I'm on track to make about $450. Um but

it we don't have anything. Um I made

$30,000 gross in the last two weeks. I took home about 16. Um and we're down to

about 2,000. Okay. All right. Well, I

mean, obviously you have a marriage problem. You don't have a financial problem. And so, the two of you need to sit down together and say, "Honey, I can't live like this. You're killing me." We're going to have to get on the same page.

We're not in Congress. We can't spend like we are. And we're going to have to we're going to have to get on the same page. And yes, you need to buy some things, but I am unwilling to make $400,000 a year and be broke.

I'm not going to live like this.

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So, as we survey our audience, one of the things you guys always bring back to us is, "Hey, that you remember that call that the weird thing that happened on the air? Whatever happened to that guy?" And we always answer, "We don't know cuz we have no idea what happened to him." But lately, we've decided we're going to fix that. And a time or two, uh, in the last few months, we've taken one of those calls that when we posted it like on Instagram, it had like 10 million people view. and went, "Whoa, that's wild." Um, and we go back to the person and go, "Okay, what happened?

What did you do?" So, Jade and I took a call in November from a guy.

just let the clip explain it. We're going to play the thing. We ended up posting on uh on u on Instagram.

>> My fiance does not quite know what my

net worth is. How do I tell her fully?

And my lawyer said I pretty much have to have a prenup. >> Well, your lawyer is not in charge of your life. It's >> number one. Lawyers give advice.

They don't tell me what to do. And then I decide if a they want them to be my lawyer anymore and b if I'm going to take their advice. They don't get to tell me I have to do something. You're not the boss of me now.

So, how in the world do you get engaged and have never told her? You should have told her before you got engaged. >> I agree.

amount. She just doesn't know the full amount. What is the full amount?

>> Like close to 20 million.

>> Wow. And you're telling me there's no signs that you're a 20 millionaire?

>> There's signs when you're a 20 millionaire, Dave. Come on. >> Well, there can be. I don't know.

There's some of these people they they look like they Yeah. No, there's not always a sign, but uh Yeah. And then other times there's a sign. So, there we go.

So, we said, "Okay, the lawyer's right, even though he was a bit bossy about it. You probably do need a prenup." And we said, "You probably need to sit down with your uh like as soon as you hang up the phone with your fiance and have the conversation." And we wondered, >> "How'd that conversation go?" >> Yeah.

>> I mean, do you go uh I mean, wow, that's crazy. So, we got Brian on the phone >> and uh Brian's in Minneapolis, and this is the guy we talked to and just a little while ago. in the clip we just played. Brian, how are you?

>> I'm better than I deserve, as the saying goes. >> I've heard the rumor. So, that's the first thing I do want to know. I'm very, very curious. So, when how quickly after

that call did you sit down with her and tell her exactly that you had 20 million bucks and then what was her reaction?

>> Uh, probably a couple weeks when I saw her in person since we're not always together. And her reaction was what I honestly fully expected it to be. Oh.

So, okay. But there was no nothing more

honestly to the conversation. >> And when you say got back together, because she's she's out of out of the country, right?

>> Yeah. We're Yep. We uh are in two different countries, but I go back and forth a lot. >> Yeah. You're in the United States. She's in Canada. >> Correct. >> No, I mean, she just looked at you and went, "Oh, okay." >> Literally, that's what she said. >> 20 million. 20 million bucks. Okay.

>> Literally, she she mentioned coffee.

Like I told you guys when I got to meet you uh after this it was uh she

>> I was the guy down there met you two.

>> Well, did she suspect it? I mean because you're making 700,000 a year. Did she suspect that?

>> She knew. I said, "Did you have any idea?" And she said, "Oh, I thought maybe a million or two was her honest response." >> Okay. >> And I said, "Okay, cool." And she just said, "No, nothing changed. Not a single thing." So, >> she definitely did not accidentally stumble into a gold digger, huh?

>> No, I opposite. She's bored with your 20 million. >> She It's not going to change her life now in any way. >> There's a big old yawn like, "Oh, okay." >> Yeah, cuz remember you were worried about it because you said that in a previous relationship somebody kind of took advantage of you for your money and I remember that being a pain point for you.

>> Yeah, it was for sure. And with her it's it it's not at all. >> Absolutely not. She she's one of the hardest workers I've ever met.

>> Yep, we did on it and she again said yep, no problem whatsoever.

>> Wow. >> So, she's she's she's one in a million.

She really is. >> So, did you guys set a date?

>> Uh we hoping for August, September,

sometime in there. Uh we're not going to throw a big old shin dig. It's going to be this family and stuff like that. So hopefully sooner than later. >> Okay. So you kind of thought that this was going to be a big yawn for her and she was just going to go, "Yeah, whatever." You kind of thought that, didn't you? >> Yeah. My gut told me >> some percentage of you when you sat down was a wee bit worried. What percentage?

>> Uh I wouldn't say more than five.

>> Okay. All right. >> Honestly, >> so you know, you know her pretty good then. >> I do. I was a little worried because I don't want to say I hit it, but I never was forthcoming about it. >> Yeah, that was the part. Mhm.

>> Yeah. on it. But she she reacted how I

would have put a lot of money on. She would react. She just said, "Not a big deal." >> It it doesn't change. >> And you didn't tell us, but what was her financials? She takes good care of her money, right? >> Yeah. She she uh there's things obviously I didn't say. She has a son um on it. I didn't think people really needed to know that, but I'll say it now. And he has autism, so she he's going to be with us his whole life. Um, but she that she is the best mother, the

most caring person and she made sure that he has always provided for. >> I love that >> on it. And so she had some things that maybe weren't the smartest financial decisions ever, but she, you know, being

a single mom is not the easiest thing in the world. >> No, not at all. >> Especially Especially plug a little autism into the equation. Yeah.

>> Wow. >> So, I got to tell you, this is the most normal reaction to a mo to a really bizarre set of numbers.

Yeah, she Dave I I I would honestly how

I feel I would sign her she could have it and I wouldn't be worried she would take an RV. >> Well, my guess is you guys' life is not going to change like you're not >> No, it's it it's not. And >> a little a little strain will come off of her, but sure. >> Yeah, it's you know people I I I might have looked over the uh Instagram and seen people saying cheap this and that.

I I I value my money to be spent on experiences. >> Yeah. Yes, that's right.

>> Over materialistic things. So for us,

it's it's not going to change how we live one bit.

>> Oh, dude, we should have told you not to read the Instagram comments. >> Well, you know, >> reading Instagram comments, you understand why some species eat their young. >> Yes, I do. >> Well, you did see folks saying this is a good problem to have.

And they are absolutely right. This is a good problem. >> There was a lot of funny comments like that, like I wish I had this problem with my fiance. But yeah, those were funny comments.

But yeah, I don't read the Instagram comments. >> Yeah, it's never going to bother me, Dave. Not good. Good.

You got thick skin and honestly. Yeah.

>> Well, you you guys are you're devastatingly normal for some really weird numbers and some fabulously weird numbers in a good way. And um congratulations. I'm glad it all worked out. Thanks for giving us the update. I appreciate you coming back on. >> Yeah. And and we will actually see you.

She wants to come next time I come to Tennessee. So, we're going to stop in.

>> Oh, great. I'd love that.

>> Great. Come on in. We'll buy you a chocolate chip cookie and a cup of coffee. >> Yes. Oh, I love the I love the followup.

That's so cool. And and by the way, if you are watching and you've called in and shared something and you want to follow up, give us a call. Tell us. We want to know. >> If you're interesting, we'll put you back on.

>> But I mean, if you're if it was just boring, we have follow up with your boring call. >> That's true. It needs to have 10 million views. >> 20 million did have 10 million for on

your Instagram. Yeah. I don't even know what mine was, but Oh my gosh.

>> Wow. Crazy. So, it just goes to show we give, you know, we give advice and sometimes it can make you feel a little out of your comfort zone. It can make you feel a little bit like, oh, I don't know if I want to do that.

But there's a rainbow on the other side of this. Like, if you follow the advice, it might feel a little uncomfortable for a moment, but usually it's a happy ending here.

equation. >> There's no other possible answer. Well, I don't tell them about that. That that's lying. Okay. The target bags

under the bed are not cute, Oprah. Okay.

It's not cute. And so you were not h if

you have to hide your target purchases, gentlemen. If you have to hide your latest firearm purchase in your business

P&L because you didn't want your wife to know what you spent on that gun, that's lying. >> That is lying. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Can you tell I have discovered that a time or two coaching a little? >> I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I knew that. But but I have I have witnessed guys, particularly guys that own their own businesses, they they managed to uh Yeah, that's a good one.

Slide it slide it under the bed. Slide the Target bags under the bed and there you go. So yeah, just it's the cleanliness of honesty, the cleanliness

of integrity is uh it's essential to

wealth building and it's essential to high quality relationships. And Brian sitting down with her and she her going, "Oh, okay. I kind of figured, but I didn't think that much." But cool, whatever. Just you got to love the lady, man. What a cool lady. Wow.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Waw Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Joe is with

us in Orlando. Hi Joe. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm doing good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate you and Jake.

>> Sure. >> Thank you.

>> How can we help? >> Thank you. So, um, I have a financial

dilemma and I hope you can provide some direction on it. So my wife and I are

both 38 years old. Um we're blessed. We

make um in last four years, every year

we made around $1.1 million um with our

W2 and investment income. Now since last

four to five years, we are paying approximately $300,000 to IRS in taxes. So this year I decided

to consult with one of those uh tax

advisory firms and they recommended hey

we can add you in some kind of a

business program where you can take a debt of $550,000 and call it $85,000

as a u initial investment and then rest of that you can put that in tax write off and then you can claim u uh you can

uh deduct that from your um overall uh

tax payment from it. So, I wasn't sure it's a good idea to take a debt to save

taxes. So, thought I should ask you.

>> Okay. The only write- off is the interest on the debt. Correct.

>> Well, yeah, that's that's pretty much they were saying. Well, they're saying that um if if I'm taking a 200 $550,000

um worth of um debt to invest in a

business, I can use um the $450,000

worth of money as a deduction uh as an investment in the company as for a new uh Trump bill.

>> Okay. Um do you own a business?

>> No, I don't. But they're saying they can add me as an investor. I have no idea what that business is as well. So, >> okay. >> That's why I was like, you know, I no idea about the business going to be. Is it going to be profitable or not? But they're claiming that I hundreds of thousands of high paying um taxpayers do

that. So, like I don't know. I'm not sure about it.

>> Okay. Um, I'm sure run away from these people as

fast as you possibly can, >> but let me I I'm I'm going to guess at

what they're trying to do because I can't I can't tell.

>> Uh, normally you if you own a business, you have a write off. If you if you have a debt, you can write off the interest as taxdeductible as an expense of doing business. Okay? but the interest would not be $450,000 on a $500,000 loan. So,

all I can figure is they're doing some kind of section 179 write off, which you

can do in business. Um, and I take that in our business here.

>> Um, but the problem is is if the

business fails, you still have the loan.

>> Yeah. >> And you got the write off, but you've got the loan. Um, and which means that

um, and so, you know, another way of looking at this is if you had $550,000,

would you invest $550,000 cash in this

>> in order to get a $450,000 write off?

Well, obviously then you have a net of $100,000 invested in a business that you don't know anything about. Well, we wouldn't even do that, >> right? >> Much less have the debt around it. And so, um, their explanation and their

process. So, here's a here's an Let me backtrack just a minute. You're making incredible money. What are you doing for a living that's making this kind of money? >> Yeah. So, I'm a AI architect. So, AI.

>> Okay. Good for you. Well, awesome. I'm so happy. All right. So, what what I learned, and I learned this um as a young guy that was making the kind of money that you're making, and I ran into these people in the real estate world who were doing the similar things, and they all got burned and ended up bankrupt, and so did I. I didn't end up bankrupt for the same reason that these people are going to cause you to have problems. But here's the here's the principle that I learned at the time.

This was around real estate. It wasn't section 179, which I think is what these guys are doing. I'm not positive. where they're getting this kind of a write off on only a $550,000 investment. It shouldn't be that big. But all I'm guessing is is they've syndicated out the 179s. And so that's a complicated

way of saying there's a write off you can take in business and they're giving you a portion of it. So they're probably putting >> right, >> you know, that that you know, you and two other people or something in this. It's a limited placement thing. So, um,

now in the real estate business, what they did was the, uh, uh, Reagan, Ronald

Reagan, that's how long ago it was, changed the tax laws to where we could take a, what used to be depreciate a piece of property over 30 years and instead we could depreciate it over 15 and then we could use what's called double declining balance on and and depreciate you take the first year's depreciation and double it. And so you

would you could put you could put $5,000

down on a $35,000 condominium.

>> Okay, that was and you could end up writing off $15,000 that year

>> is the way the numbers worked. And so people were doing this in mass, but guess what? >> The stupid condominiums wouldn't rent for enough then to support the debt.

they ended up getting foreclosed on and all of the tax savings got recalled back

on the people.

>> And so, uh, the lesson that I learned from that, which it's a little different deal than your deal, but the lesson I learned from that is never do a deal that doesn't make economic sense and only makes tax savings sense because

it's always going to bite you in the butt. It has to make economic sense.

Meaning, if you're going to invest in the business, it's a good business investment. and I get a tax write off.

Not it's a stupid crazy business idea.

I'm going to lose all my money in it, but I get a tax write off and I'm doing this just for the tax write off. And that's what these guys are proposing to you, like my old real estate buddies did. And they got their heads taken off, all of them.

>> And uh and it was a massive bloodbath in real estate in the 80s over this. All the limited partnerships and syndications fell apart. I knew one guy had $110 million net worth. He's bankrupt, gone, took him out. S and it's

this very principle they violated is they were doing deals just for the tax write off that were bad deals.

>> And what I smell here, and I'm a 99%

sure this is a really bad deal and a

really good tax write off. Run and run because these morons are morons and they're going to give you other stuff like this to do.

>> Yeah. And you might not be able to smell it. So, uh, you smelled this one. You could tell something was wrong, couldn't you? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, even I offered, hey, what if if the business is going well, I can pay that, uh, debt off. No,

no, no. You don't want to pay off the debt. >> Yeah. You want to stay in debt.

>> We're carrying the debt.

>> Here, here's the basic thing on that. If you have a 10 thou $100,000 in debt in

interest payments, you can write $100,000 off. But writing it off means

that you deduct it from your income. It doesn't mean you save $100,000 on taxes.

It means you save 37% of $100,000 on taxes. So you put out $100,000 to the bank in interest and it saves you $37,000 on taxes. Well, that's trading a dollar for a quarter. That's stupid on a sixth grade level.

Okay? And so you never do that. If you're going to do that, just give a charity $100,000 and you get a $37,000 write- off.

$37,000 tax savings, $100,000 write off.

And you don't have to be in debt to do it. Run from these guys. They're dangerous.

Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me?

Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So, it does whatever it wants.

And that's why we created Every Dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar is simple, it's clear, and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to-dos, and reminders along the way.

It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give Every Dollar a full-time job.

Carl is in New York City. Hey Carl, how are you?

>> Hey y'all. How's it going? I hope you're doing well. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> I'm 29. Hey, I'm 29. I live in New York

City. Um just signed today. Uh making

double what I was making um at my previous job. And >> congratulations. What are you making?

>> Thank you. Uh starting off at 85

um salary and and hopefully 95 after 6

months. >> Good. Good for you.

>> Appreciate that. Uh yeah. Uh so uh the

car question, it's kind of a it's a car question. Um, I've had a bit of car

trouble and I've been driving a car

solely to get through the winter over here. Um, doesn't have AC. Uh,

all these different things. Uh, needs a needs a whole bunch of changes, needs a whole bunch of fixes, but it's not worth it cuz the car is about two 220,000

miles um on it and I'm running it into

the ground basically. It was a free hand down. Uh now, uh being that I have a I'm

a father as well, I wanted to know um

best fixes. Now, in going into looking

for a car, I've looked for the past 6 months. And in short, I

Oh, I'm forgetting one thing. Sorry about that, y'all. um my father gave me

about um $10,000 go to go toward this

car um as of the beginning of this month. And so while originally I was

just looking for something uh that I keep on the road that's reliable, etc.

>> The added cash was um

>> added to what?

>> What's it added to? You already got money saved for a car? Yeah, I was saving for a car. >> How much do you have in savings?

>> I've got now I mean continually saving.

I've got about 8,000 8 to 10.

>> Okay. So, with your dad's gift, you have $20,000 to buy a car.

>> Correct. >> What's your question? Um,

well, the the car that

I suppose that answers all the questions

is about cuz I'm I'm looking at Carvana.

I guess it's shipping to New York.

>> Say it. What are you trying to spend on this car? I have a feeling.

>> About 25,000.

>> Okay. Don't you can't buy that car. You don't have 25,000. Buy a $20,000 car.

You have 20,000. >> Yeah. or can you wait until you save up the 5,000 more? Cuz when I when you tell me that the the other car was a free it was a free handme-down, you have no money in it. So if you wanted to continue to repair it for a while, you could. It's >> go junker probably bring a couple of grand, won't it?

>> Uh I'm not sure. It's It's 07 hard to

fit. >> Yeah, I don't either, but go find out. I mean, whatever you can sell it for, plus 20 grand is your budget.

>> Carl, do you have any other debt? Do you have any debt?

>> Um, just a balance transfer in June.

That's about 2,000, which Yeah, that's

that's the rest. >> Okay. >> Otherwise, again, I'm looking at Well, new job, new position. Um, how do I

>> Hey, listen. Don't celebrate your new job with a car payment.

>> That's kind of dumb. >> Sure. No. And that's not the intent.

>> Well, it's what you're doing.

>> You You think, "Oh, I hit the lottery. I doubled my income. I signed up for 85 grand, so I'm going to run down the car dealer and give them my freaking money.

No thank you.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Time to

be a grown-up. You did not hit the lottery. You have 20 grand and an $85,000 job and you live in New York City. You did not hit the lottery. Okay, you can go buy a $20,000 car. Not a dime

freaking more because you don't have a dime more. You do what you want to do, dude. But you called here. I gotta tell you, there's zero chance you should have a car payment. You have plenty of money.

You are upgrading so far from the hooptie you've been driving. You ought to be dancing in the streets of that 20 grand act like you got a dadgum new Porsche >> or save up the 5,000. So, and pay 25,000. Just do it in cash.

>> Absolutely, dude. Please don't do this.

Please don't do that. >> So, Dave, let let's talk about this because I know people people are like, "What are you saying? This man is buying a $25,000 car in cash. That's so

countercultural. It's so abnormal. The majority of Americans have car payments and they will have car payments their entire working career. Right.

>> Majority of of Americans are broke.

>> Exactly. So the correlation there is very very clear. You look at the percentage of Americans that have car payments and then you look at the percentage of Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck and suddenly the whole equation makes sense. So, >> well, you interviewed, we interviewed 10,167 millionaires when we did the Mitt Ramsey research piece on millionaires.

You know what the data tells us? Tell us the actual science. Science science, right? You know, what's it tell you?

Okay. Well, the science the data says that when we interview millionaires, they say, "What's the dumbest thing you ever did with a car with a with money?" I bought a car with payments.

>> What's the dumbest thing you ever did? I bought a new car with payments.

>> And and when did you stop doing that?

about the time I got on track to be a millionaire, which was 16 years ago, was the last time I did that stupid butt idea. And then I became a millionaire.

Yeah. >> And they they they they look back on their lives and say the turning point of me becoming wealthy, the vast majority of them, it's like 84% of them answer the question this way. It's crazy. You know the they look back and they say the dumbest thing I ever did and the turning point that when I changed my life and started habit patterns that caused me to become wealthy was getting away from car payments. If you want to be middle class, stay in car debt. You will stay

in the middle class. You will never build wealth >> cuz it will suck the bone marrow out of your money. >> Well, when you're paying 800, 900, $1,000 a month for cars. And for some people that's just for one car. Many households have two car payments. Yeah.

How how the heck are you supposed to have money to invest for the future? How can you pay for your kids' college?

>> There's an affordability crisis. I can't buy a house. It's cuz you have $1,400 in car payments because Ford Motor Company screwed you. Lexus Motor Company, Toyota Motor Company screwed you and they got you so far in debt because you had to have something shiny with toxic plastic smell.

>> So then the big question then comes is okay, how do we do it? And that's the number one question that I get when I start talking like this. You quit caring what other people think. >> Yeah, that's the that is the first thing.

Mindset has >> status symbol as a car >> and then let's talk about it practically cuz most people you can go about this in two ways for most people. What this looks like getting away from car payments looks like whatever your current vehicle is you're either going to pay it off and from that point off say >> never again. >> I no never again. And now that I've paid my car off, I'm putting a portion of money aside all the time so that when the time comes, I can trade this one in, add a little money to it, and upgrade little by little.

It's a stairstep motion that we're doing. So, that's one way it can look. The other way it can look is you're looking at you're facing down a $950 car payment right now. You still owe $40,000 and you go, "This is for the birds.

I'm just going to sell the car." And from the beginning, you're making a giant step downward because you're going from driving a $40,000 car down to maybe a eight or $9 thousand beater. Dave, >> yeah.

People at a stoplight you're never going to meet or your grandchildren

because you could change your family tree if you don't impress the people at the stoplight. >> Absolutely. And and and and let me take it back even further. The people at the stoplight, but a lot of you are worried about the people in your life.

how it's going to feel when you pull up to the cookout and you were driving a Suburban brand new and now you're driving, you know, a Honda Fit, right? And it's like, what happened to him, right? And you're thinking about that. >> It's not going well for old Dave.

He's driving a car he can afford. Oh, poor Dave.

>> Yeah, you're right. And you know what? It's worse. I think men are the worst.

>> Guys are the worst on cars cuz we we get

too much self-esteem out of what we drive. Now ladies, some of them are that way, but most ladies just think a car is a really large purse and guys, but we're real concerned about the motor and the 0 to 60 and you know

how fast is my little battery George Camel and >> the size of the rim. I don't know.

>> Yeah, there you go. >> Shows how much I know. >> Whatever that was much I know. >> No, I'm telling you guys and pickups are the worst on car payments. They're the

worst. So, sorry. Sorry, Carl, but you

just set us off on a tangent. All of that wasn't aimed at you personally, but if we could please talk you into loving yourself enough to not going into car debt. Love yourself that much, Carl. In New York City, don't go into car debt.

Listen,

your home is your most expensive asset.

And now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this whackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

Ramsay trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramiesolutions.com/agent.

That's rammissysolutions.com/agent

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the

debtree stage. They're here. Arie and

Randy are here. What's up, guys? How are you? Good. >> Hi. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> Uh Thie River Falls, Minnesota. What's that near? Uh we're about 5 and a half hours north of Minneapolis.

>> Okay. No, that's not near it, but Okay.

Close to Canada. >> Ah, okay. Good deal. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. It's warm and sunny. >> Much warmer. >> Life is good. And here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off?

>> $193,000.

>> Yo, nice. >> How long did that take? >> Four years and nine months.

>> Wow. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We went from 98,000 to 161,000.

>> Very good. What do you all do for a living? >> Uh, I'm a public works employee for the city. >> Mhm. >> And I am a credit and collections manager. >> Wow. Well, great incomes. Way to go, guys. Congratulations. So, uh, goodness.

Approaching 5 years here. You've been pushing on this. >> Pushing the rock up the hill. Way to go.

And 193,000. Was that your house and everything? >> Yep. We did it, Dave. Our house. Dad,

how you're weirdos.

>> Oh, wow. >> Paid for house. Look at you. How old are you paid for house people? >> I am 39. >> Hey, >> I'm 47. Wow. >> Wow. Way to go, you guys.

>> So, what's this paid off house worth?

>> Um, about 325.

>> Excellent. Excellent. How much you got saved in your nest egg so far? Your retirement?

>> Um, four.

>> Four something. Okay. >> We're creeping up on that. >> Not far from being baby steps millionaires. >> We're really close. >> Way to go, guys. So proud of y'all.

Congratulations.

Okay. So, how much of this 193 was the house? >> That was all the house. >> That's the house. >> We had about 40,000 of baby step two debt. >> And then and then you tore into it.

Okay. So, 5 years ago, you must have run into Ramsay stuff. How did that happen?

>> Yeah. So, I actually saw a Facebook post. Um, a high school friend was giving away five copies of Total Money Makeover. Just >> Wow. >> Hey, this book changed my life. No strings attached. Um, the books were gone by the time I saw the post, but I downloaded it, read it in 48 hours. Uh, >> oh. >> And then I text him and was like, "Do you know Dave Ramsey?" And

>> yeah, I was I was actually ice fishing.

It was good old winter. And um I I had

heard of Dave Ramsey, so I I said, "Yeah, we >> And I never had I had never heard your name." >> Oh. And you said, "Yeah, I've heard of this." And whatever you want to do, honey, I'm ice fishing. >> Yeah, pretty much. Yep.

>> Mind you, in our financed fish house.

>> Yeah. >> Got it. Got it.

>> Wow. Right. >> Oh, I love it. >> Is >> So, what does a fish house cost?

>> Uh, so that one we I I bought it for 14

grand. >> Okay. >> Um, and then full circle at the end, we

were we had about 17,000 left on our house. >> Mhm. And I jokingly had said, "Uh, I'll

sell the fish house and if I can get what I want for it, we'll pay off the house and I'll just buy another fish house." So, >> I I actually listed on marketplace and

>> uhoh. >> She She didn't believe me at first, but you know, she saw the post and we sold it. >> It did sell. >> Oh, yeah. I sold it.

>> You really did do it. >> A month later, we drove to the >> the mortgage office and paid off our

>> That was that the fish house paid off the house. Yes. Completed it.

>> So you did it in person. You did the payoff in person. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> So now you're going to save up and buy another fish house in cash. >> Yes. >> Yeah, of course. >> Sure.

>> Yeah. So how's this work? You slide it out on the ice. >> Uh >> it's like a it's like a camper.

Um it's just a it's a winter camper. We we you drive on the lake and >> we park and you drill holes in the ice and we >> you sit in the warmth of the house so that you're not freezing while you're >> fishing 3 days. I mean, you're talking to a southern guy who has no idea what you're talking about right now. >> Come on up, Dave.

Come to Minnesota. So, sounds cold to me, but yeah. >> Well, no, he's in the fish house.

>> Congratulations, you guys. So, you're So, bottom line is uh Arie figures this

out, calls or Randy.

>> Which one's R? Yeah, I'm Randy. >> Randy. So, Randy figures this out and calls Arie and he's easy to get along with and he says, "Go for it." All the way to the point that he sells us a fish house and pays off your house at the end of the story. at the end of the story, but it's a long five years. >> Yeah, it was the end of 2020 and we're at that $98,000 and it's like, man, we

we make a lot of money for Northern Minnesota and like where is it all right? And then I read the book and I dug in and I'm the nerd and >> spreadsheets and where did all of our money go? And just figuring out, man, we spent $700 during COVID on eating out in

March of 2020. I'm like, we couldn't even go inside a restaurant. How are we spending that much money? And had you avoided debt up to that point >> or were you just kind of dabbling in it a little bit? >> We had regular consumer debt. You know, we had our our vehicles and the fish house and, you know, a four-wheeler,000.

>> Okay. >> You cleaned up the 40 grand right quick and then you to just keep let's just get let's get the house knocked out and everything. >> Yeah. So, we really as like I took on um a new role at work and then Arie has switched employers as well. Um, in that 5year span, we just lived on what that

minimum was in babysat 2 and just everything else to the house. >> Wow. >> Way to go. >> Wow. >> I mean, we did take our kids on vacation. >> Yeah. How does it feel to be completely

free?

>> It feels really good.

>> Weird. >> It does. >> You mention weird people all the time and and it does feel weird. It >> Yeah, >> it's so abnormal, right? Debt is everywhere. >> Do you know anybody else that's gotten out of debt company? >> I have one coworker. Yep. That's a single mom and she's a rock star. Wow.

So, >> Yep. We actually we visited here before together, Dave. So, that was cool.

>> It's It's weird to look at the checking account and the money just keeps going

up. >> Yeah. It's yours. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Just start You start stacking cash automatically now. >> Oh, yeah. You do. >> Yeah. You can go. So, what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate not having a single bit of debt? >> Um, well, our trip here was was a good one. Um, but so what we put off in those

5 years was um new vehicles. So, both of

us will >> You need to upgrade. We'll need an upgrade. >> Yeah. Get out get out of the hoopies in time to get some good stuff. >> Yeah. And then there's the fish house, too. >> And then the fish house that'll that'll come eventually. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good. Wow. Congratulations.

All right. What do you tell people the secret to paying off 193,000 in four years and 9 months? >> I would say the budget. We had never done a zerobased budget. Um, right. We were the can we afford this payment people, right? The normal people.

>> Um, and discipline. Discipline >> to me is discipline. You got to keep your eye on the prize. It's a long time.

It's a grind. >> It is a long time. Five years. >> You know, we got kids.

They want everything. And >> yeah, it's a grind. It doesn't seem possible at first, but it, you know, it it just keeps going and eventually it's you're there. And >> if we had told you, Arie, at the start of the process that you were going to end up selling the fish house to get to pay off the last bit, you would have told us you're crazy, wouldn't you?

>> Uh, absolutely. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. The idea the idea of being free

>> grew on you. >> It It did. still seemed like it was going to be so far away and and >> you know it's here now. So >> yeah, and now it's believable.

>> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah. Way to go. Way to go.

Proud of you guys. You're amazing. You've changed your whole family tree. >> Yes.

>> Way to go. I mean, you make a close to $200,000 a year. You know, payment in the world. You're going to stack cash and build wealth and uh you'll be able to do anything you need to do and be generous.

You'll be able to do all kinds of stuff.

Very, very well done. >> Very nice. Yep. >> Good stuff. All right, Arie and Randy from Minnesota.

$193,000 paid off. House and everything plus or

minus a fish house. 4 years and 9 months. 98,000 to 161 was the income

spread. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 >> We're debtree.

Yeah, baby. I love it.

>> Love that. >> That is so fun.

>> So cool.

>> Isn't it interesting that um that there

was some just watching his reaction when she calls, he's ice fishing. >> Yeah. >> They already had a strong relationship.

>> Yep. >> And he's like, "Okay, babe.

>> Fine. >> Let's do it." And I don't know if I I think you're a little crazy, but let's do it. >> Yeah, I'm on board. >> That that that's where the whole thing started, though, was that they had this strong basis to start with.

>> Wow. Cool people. I love it.

>> Cool.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 12:3.

No one can be established through wickedness, but the righteous cannot be uprooted.

Warren Buffett said, "The best investment you can make is in yourself." Jeff is in Detroit. Hey, Jeff. How are you?

>> I'm good, sir. How about Jeff? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um, so I'm 56 years old. Um, make

about 56,000 a year. Uh, back in December, I had filed for a Chapter 13 bankruptcy.

Um, I was one of the 390,000 in Michigan

that the state came after for back

unemployment that they stated that I owed. I fought it. I won the case. Uh,

that was one of the reasons why I was looking into bankruptcy just in case they came back and said, "Yes, you owe this." I was already ridiculously upside down in a vehicle purchase that I had made about four years ago. Owe a ridiculous amount on that still.

Um, I ended up dismissing the bankruptcy because when it was filed, the information was not filed appropriately or properly. And uh, they came back and

changed my payment from initially it was supposed to be $439 a month uh, for 3 years and then they said, "Hey, wait, your numbers don't add up." Um, now it's

going to be 700 a month for 5 years. I

only have three years left on the car loan. I ended up dismissing the bankruptcy before it was officially filed. >> No, it was filed. It was filed, but you dismissed it voluntarily.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Dismissed it before it actually was finalized at in the corner.

>> Exactly. But just just to be clear, for your future, >> you have filed a bankruptcy.

>> I've learned that. Yes, sir. >> All right. Anyway, but go ahead. That doesn't bring that didn't help anything.

That brings us to where we are. So now you got a big buck car payment still, right? >> Uh I do. Uh 625 a month on a 2014 Jeep.

Um and uh I'm in the process right now

of trying to get it uh negotiated with Capital 1 um the my finance company um

uh with whether I'm going to be able to get the vehicle caught up um and continue paying on it or should I turn the vehicle over. I mean, my credit scores are in the low fives as it is right now. >> What do you owe on that Jeep? And how many payments behind are you?

>> I'm I'm about three payments behind now, I believe, because of the bankruptcy.

Um, and I believe the last thing that I seen on there, cuz I can't access the account online because of the bankruptcy right now. Um, I believe it was right around the 16 to 17,000 mark still. Um,

and I've already paid like 23,000 on it.

>> What What do you think it's worth?

uh four or five >> oh >> thousand. Um yeah, >> I this is all of my own doing. I understand that. I just Okay, I want you to go check I want you to go check that number. That number sounds like an emotional number, not a proper number. So go to Kelly as far as the >> go to kellybluebook kbb.com and put in the information on a 2014 Jeep. What kind of Jeep is it? is uh it's a 2014

Jeep Cherokee. It's just kind of a baseline model. The last one that I looked at was $4,200.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> I'll buy that >> for Kelly Blue. >> Um what else what else is is outstanding. So you're $1875 in the hole

on that. >> Yeah. I've got about 7,000 in credit card debt um that I'm working with a debt consolidation company right now because after I canled or dismiss the bankruptcy, I needed to try and make a

quick move to get all to not have them all come at me and try and garnish and everything else. >> So, I've got those tied up with a debt counselor company right now.

>> Um yeah. Uh >> is it just you or are you married with kids? Is there is there anybody else in the situation?

No, I mean I I live in the same home as my brother and sister-in-law. It was a home that we uh acquired after my mother and stepfather had passed. >> Uhhuh. Um, we have a mortgage on that that I am a on the mortgage I am a survivor in interest >> and on the deed we did a uh enhanced life estate deed thankfully um uh prior

to her passing and all three of myself

and the two brothers are on the deed as partners in interest.

>> But >> is there debt on the house or it was paid for? >> No, it's got a mortgage. >> There is no Oh, that's right. No, it's got a mortgage. Uh we still owe 91,000 on it. Um, I had an opportunity about two years ago to get a mortgage to have

it put in my name because technically the mortgage is still in my mother's name, my late mother's name.

>> Okay. >> Um, but it was at 7.75%

interest and the current mortgage on the home is at 3.25%.

Um, I wasn't about to refinance it just to get it put into my name and increase our payment by three or $400. Okay. So, to recap, you've got the credit cards under control because you threw them with a debt consolidation and I assume you've paid that company already or signed with that company already.

>> Yeah, I have signed with them. Yes. And they are negotiating for them all.

>> Okay. So, that's under control.

>> The only thing that's out of control is we're $1,800 behind on a $16,000 debt on a $4,000 Jeep. Have I got that right?

>> Right. Okay. >> Absolutely. Yes, sir. >> So, how's your income looking? Are you I mean, it sounds like >> 27 an hour. probably make 56,000 a year roughly. Um probably more than that because of overtime, >> but uh >> Okay. So, I what I want going forward on

this, I want you to know your exact numbers cuz knowing the exact numbers is the only way that we can create an exact plan and and decide how long is it going to take. How quickly can I get the 1875 to get this car loan current? How quickly can I pay off the 17,000 or am I

going to try to What's >> the interest rate on the Jeep?

Ha, that's a good question. Um, and I

know that's a very stupid answer and it was stupid of me to sign that without even looking at it. My cousin thought You think You think it's a high rate, don't you? I do, too. >> Oh, it's a ridiculous. It's got to be ridiculously high after paying 23,000

over 3 to four years.

>> Mhm. >> But I've already paid on it and I still owe 16. >> Yeah. >> It had to have been an absolutely >> Okay, so here's your here's your options. Okay, there's three options and none of them are pretty. Um, one is you scrape together the 1,800 and you catch up and you just finish paying the Jeep off. You just work it off, put in the debt snowball and get rid of it. Okay.

Two is you get City Bank, I think you said, had this, >> right? >> Uh, Capital One. >> Capital One. Capital One. Okay. You get them to recast the loan, reset the loan, and they roll the 1,800 in and you start

fresh at with no payments behind. And while you're at it, get them to give you a decent interest rate. Okay. three

possibility is you toss them the keys,

>> tell them to come get it, >> right? >> And um then they sell it for $2,000 on the repo lot and then you have a $14,000

debt with them that you'll have to settle later, >> right? >> And you can settle a repo debt for pennies on the dollar. Of course, that you know, absolutely that that puts a monster in the closet that's going to come out someday. And so you need to be saving like crazy. About a year after they repo it, they're going to start bothering you and want some money and

they can sue you for up to the deficit, but they will settle that for about a quarter on the dollar. So you can probably settle this $45,000 in

>> uh cash and so you build that war chest over a year and you offer them $5,000 and they'll go away. $4,000 and they'll go away. Uh, and you'll have a repo, but

you have a bankruptcy and you already have a $500 credit score. I don't know that a repo does much to your credit much. Yeah.

>> It's not like you got any credit. >> Yeah, that's what at my age, that's what I was curious about. I mean, that's what I've considered. That was what I was considering was just turning the vehicle back in.

>> Yeah. If they if they don't cut you some kind of a deal that makes you want to keep it, >> then that tells me they're that I'm going to toss them in the keys and, you know, go get you a $2 $3,000 car to drive and start stacking cash. Clear those credit cards with and get out of that other mess and then stack cash and be ready for the phone call that's going to come on the deficit cuz it's going to come. This is going to come bite you later.

Okay?

>> And uh and always when you're doing a settlement, you get it in writing or you don't give them money, >> right? >> Cuz you can tell you can tell that um the bank is li a bank like that, you can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving.

>> Okay? They're crooks, >> right? >> And um and that's the business that they're in. That's why they set you up in this deal the way they did. screwed you going in. So the car company and the bank screwed you going in. You allowed it. You said that. You signed up for it.

You said that. But that's that's the reality. So you can fight through it any

one of those three ways, but get yourself a plan so that you don't, you know, so you then you get all of this stuff in the rearview mirror and you start to rebuild. >> That's what we're trying to do. >> That puts us our Ramsey Show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 239. When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most | April 13, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:36:59 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is

the Ramsey show 888-825-5225

is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman joined by the incomparable George Kamel.

No bomber jacket today, just a shacket and he's looking >> want to outdo you, Ken. You're looking as dapper as ever. We're ready to go.

Let's start it off with Zay in Austin, Texas. Zay, how can we help?

Hi. I was just calling in just wanted to say I love the show and I'm new to Ramsey, but I'm really throwing myself into, you know, everything that y'all teach. I've already completed Baby Step One and I just wanted some direction on how to get through Step Two. Well, welcome aboard, Zay. Baptism by fire.

Let's go. Proud of you.

So, what's the picture? Give us the financial picture in Baby Step Two. What are we working on?

We're working through about $53,000 in debt. You said 53? >> Including buy now Yes, sir. 53,000.

All right, break it down for us. >> uh It's going to be uh, about $3,287 in buy now pay later debt, uh $785 in personal loan debt, $39,380

in uh car debt, and uh five credit

cards. One was Kay Jewelers for $1,415,

one was Navy Federal for $4,300, one was Capital One for $1,500,

one was Discover for $1,250, and another one was Chase for $1,000. And all those are maxed out except for the car the car for the the rings. I'm exhausted hearing

about this. I can't imagine how you're feeling carrying it.

Yeah, it's a lot. At least you know your numbers. That's honestly the That tells me you're actually going to get out of this thing cuz most people have no clue what's going on. They don't want to know. And Zay, you've made a bold choice to go I'm going to stare this thing right in the face and tackle it.

Love it. >> Absolutely. Yeah, it's a lot. What Tell us your income.

So, I actually just got promoted to full-time from part-time. So, now I I make 55,000 a year. And my husband's in the military and he makes 30,000 a year.

Okay, so we're looking at 85,000. You guys are joint finances, I hope.

Yes, sir. Okay, great. And is he on board with this baby steps stuff and this Ramsey stuff? Is he on board or is he freaking out thinking that you got abducted by aliens? What's going on?

Where's he at?

Definitely abducted by aliens cuz I was like, "Hey man, we're getting We're doing all this stuff, man. I'm paying We're paying off all these credit cards and then we're closing them." He said, "Closing them?" I said, "Closing them." And he was like, uh We'll come back to it. I was like, "Okay." I knew it was I knew it was one or the other, right? We've just taken too many calls. So, that's a That George, that's a now an interesting wrinkle in this process. Yeah. I want to know whose car this is.

The car's in my name. It's mine. I had it before we got married. What's it worth?

It's only worth 25,000. Mhm.

What's the payment on it?

$800 a month. Woo.

Yikes. Where's my Where's my Pepto-Bismol, George? Do you have it? I don't I don't I think we ran out. You You used the supply last week.

>> Little indigestion on that one. That $800 a month car payment. Woof. And now, did you roll over negative equity? What happened here?

Yes, I I rolled over negative equity. I had a Chevrolet which I didn't know those I obviously all of them depreciate but apparently those super depreciate. And the only reason I wanted a different car is because I commute to work an hour every day and the car that I had wasn't going to suit the drive, uh gas mileage-wise. So, I got a a 2025 Toyota Camry. That's the only car that could get you an hour each way. That makes sense.

Yeah, I was I was trying to do >> It was a joke. He's joking. You don't need a 2025 car to get you anywhere, okay? You just say you wanted a brand new shiny car. Stop shouting, Jordan.

>> I'm just You're getting a little fired up. >> a test. What do you What do you Let me ask a real quick question. What do you do for a living?

Uh I'm a bank teller.

Okay. Is there and I'm just asking, this is not the primary focus of your call, nor should it be our coaching, but I wonder if you could get a job in the

near future uh doing bank telling or something similar for the same pay that doesn't require you to drive an hour each way. I actually I actually did try

uh to find a job in my area. We live right next to a base. So, >> I see. the area is I see.

>> not the best around it and the pay the pay could I make $24 here and when I started job hunting, the most they would offer was 12 to 14 over there.

>> All right, very good. >> And what Why is your husband only making 30?

Uh he's pretty low rank. He's only an E3.

But that still feels I mean, that's close to minimum wage at this point.

Yeah, I mean, they give us BAH and everything, but we don't see it because we live in base housing. So, our our our roof overhead is taken care of. Well, that means your expenses are super low.

So, you do you have any money left over at this point to throw at the debt?

So, no. I Last year, I quit my job for 2 months and that was not the best choice

and we've been kind of drowning just kind of treading water ever since just trying to like make sure things get paid at the very least. Mhm. So, you you have a thousand bucks in savings and nothing else to your name?

No. Yeah, everything else is fine. The bills, pretty much everything checked out. >> Have you done a budget to where you can answer the question of how much margin

do you have that you could throw at this debt? And what I mean by margin is after we've paid the basics, right? So, you don't have housing. So, I'm assuming you don't have utilities or any of that stuff. So, your basic bills, above and beyond that, do you know how much you could throw at this debt every month?

Well, what we wanted to do is try to start using only my the money I make now

and then just surviving on his paycheck.

It just seems kind of hard with the $800

car note. >> I agree. we've got a hard choice to make here, which is we're going to have to get out of this car debt. And the only way to do that is to come up with the difference that we're underwater on. So, you said it's worth 25. Is that private party value or is that a trade-in value?

Uh I looked on Kelley Blue Book. For private party?

Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that means you're 14 grand underwater on this thing. So, that's the number we need to come up with. Now, do you have another vehicle you could use in the meantime?

No, sir. We're a single We're a single vehicle family. >> So, that's the one. So, we need to also come up with a little bit more money to get you a different car that is used in cash, probably five grand.

Okay. So, once you have the 14 plus let's say the five, that's about 20 grand that you need to come up with in order to get out of the 40. Do you see how that's a good deal?

I do. Yes, that's why I was saying we We want to end up He's going to be getting moved soon and we want to go overseas, so that's why we we really like, "Okay, we need to start going hard cuz we want to either get rid of the car or something like that." We want to go over there with like no debt whatsoever.

>> going overseas do for you guys financially?

Uh financially we'll be going down to a single income. So, we're hoping he'll get a little bit more rank, and we just want to, you know, have a different living experience on base and stuff.

I think this is a fantasy right now. You guys can't live off two incomes with the debt you have. And so, this idea of going overseas is going to have to wait until you guys are completely debt-free.

Absolutely. >> So, here's the math. You got 53 grand.

Usually, it takes people 18 to 24 months to pay off their consumer debt if they go hard using our plan. That means you got to be throwing 26.5 a year at this debt. That's about 2,200 a month. So, that's the real napkin math of what it's going to take, and freeing up that $800 payment is your ticket. Which means, we got to save up 19, 20 grand fast by selling stuff, working extra, living on nothing. Then, we can finally get some breathing room and crush the rest of our 14k in debt.

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All right, next is Rose. Rose is joining us in St. Louis. Rose, how can we help today? Hello, gentlemen.

Um, the reason that I'm calling is because um, I am um, I was the sole beneficiary of a life insurance policy and I am completely

illiterate when it comes to finances and um, I've never seen this much I I've never dealt with this much money. I mean, it's not like a gazillion dollars or anything, but it's substantial and um, I'm $51,000

in debt. I had a huge back surgery three years ago and I'm still catching up from

that and um, it's a truck payment, it's

um, a personal loan, a title loan and it's credit cards and medical um,

medical bills. So, that's what I owe.

Um, I'm receiving $125,000 and so, your steps are going to be wiped out and well, I mean, one, two and three

and four maybe um, are going to be wiped out, But I don't know what to do with the rest of the money. And should I pay it all should I pay all of my debt at once?

What should I do after I pay it? Okay.

Let's go back. Quick review. I want to Got you. We got you. Let me quick review.

Is the total debt everything you listed out is the total debt equaling to 51,000 or is it 51,000 plus?

That's total debt. So your total debt is 51,000.

Okay. Do you have any other money in savings?

We have no savings. You have zero savings. And is the 125,000 is that net

to you or is that before tax?

>> That's net to me. I'm

There's no tax in Missouri or I don't know the I don't know the specifics, but I know I don't pay tax on life insurance. Okay. All right. George, take over, buddy. So baby step one is a $1,000 starter emergency fund. You're right. That's taken care of. Baby step two, we're going to wipe out all the consumer debt, all 51. That's taken care of. And then you're going to build your three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund.

And we're going to park that in a savings account. A high-yield savings account is even better cuz at least it'll grow a little bit and grow with inflation. >> What's high-yield? What's that mean?

That's just a type of savings account. They're usually tied to a lot of online banks. We've got a great one with Fairwinds Credit Union who's a a sponsor of this show and they created a bundle just for our fans like you and they've got it and so you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey open up one of those and that's a great place to just sock away money and not do anything with it right now. That's what I'm encouraging you to do. Six months?

So what's six months of expenses for you guys? To cover all of your bills.

Oh. Without your debt payments. >> After my debt That's going to be nice. Yeah. $1,500.

Wow. >> We bring home $8,000 a month. I work for the postal service and my husband is a truck driver and we we make decent money, but we've been robbing Peter to pay Paul. When I was out of work, I lost $52,000 the year I had my back surgery, and it crippled us.

And I paid for funerals of my family.

I've always taken care of everybody else in my whole life, and I've never been able to save for me because I've always felt guilt because I've had more money than other people in my family have. So, I buried my parents, I buried my brothers, and I paid for all of that that goes with it. And I don't have any family left, and it's just my husband and I, and I don't want anybody to know about this because I don't want to take advantage of the money that I'm getting. Yeah, we won't tell a soul, Rose.

It's just between you and a couple million listeners. Yeah, nobody knows. Nobody knows. But I I think you've been helping everyone your whole life, it's time to help Rose.

My ex-husband. Mhm.

I'm sorry for your loss, uh but the the legacy here is Rose is set free from the bondage of her debts.

Yeah, so what do I do? What do I do with the extra income Well, we're going to tell you. Well, let me let me lay out the math for you. 125,000 minus the 51 in debt, that leaves you with 74,000. You tracking? Okay.

Yeah. Let's set aside 24,000 in a high-yield savings account, and that's going to be your emergency fund plus because you've have been living a life of scarcity, it's time for a little abundance. This is your never going to debt again insurance plan. You understand? >> I could cry. Yes.

>> okay. You have 24,000 ready to pocket, Rose. This is huge for you. It is emotional. It's a restart. Yeah. Yeah.

It's great. Imagine that, no debt payments and $24,000 sitting in the bank, and you still have $50,000 left over. >> this part, Rose. This is where it gets fun. George, tell her what she's won.

You've won a lifetime without stress, Rose. So, that 50 grand now can be used

to do a couple of things. We can invest some of it. We can max out a retirement account, a Roth IRA for example. We can invest outside of retirement if you have, you know, near-term goals. And you can use that to give and spend. When's the last time you spent money on yourself? >> a house, and I've never bought a house.

So, where does that go into all of that?

>> That Well, that becomes your starter down payment. So, now we have 50 grand as a down payment. So, what kind of house are you looking for? What's that going to cost you in your area for a reasonable house? >> I don't I don't I don't want no more than a $200,000 house. That sounds reasonable. >> And we want a pool, a jacuzzi, a yard for our dog. Now we're talking.

Well. >> I want. I don't want nothing luxurious.

>> That's all George wants. Your list is the same as his. He wants a backyard and a jacuzzi. He's got two dogs.

>> I want a jacuzzi for the dog. That'd be ideal. You would do that.

I'm sure it's a thing. So, Rose, that's going to become your down payment money then. So, you got your 24K emergency fund, 50K for your down payment, and then keep adding to it. Cuz guess what?

You make eight grand, you spend 1,500, >> Yeah. you can sock away $6,500 a month

toward that down payment fund. That's right. >> And earmark it. And in in EveryDollar, you can actually earmark the different savings accounts. So, mark one for emergencies, mark the other one for down payment, and just start adding money to that every single month.

Okay. And >> Okay. with the nice income, George, that they've got, they should be able to get right into Baby Step 4 immediately with 15% and win their on every dollar.

>> every month >> where I'm going to need to reach out to somebody and I I bought the $79 thing.

What's the 70 What's the 70 thing?

>> Easy money. >> Yes. So, that is going to be the foundation of your financial world because you're going to be budgeting for every one of those dollars coming in so that they don't slip away into the abyss because Rose found a new opportunity to do something over here. And so, that's going to help you make a plan for all those $8,000. And I'm going to hook you up with a dream team. Number one is a trusted real estate pro. Okay, you need

someone in your corner who can help you shop within your budget, who knows Rose's goals, who understands the Ramsey way to help you do this smart. So, ramseysolutions.com is the place to go.

I I know Dave said that the credit cards aren't the end-all be-all.

You shouldn't have to you know, have a credit card to be anybody special. And

where do I Is do you have someone within your team that'll help me navigate on that app? Because I have our income in there, but I have no I haven't done anything with it since I bought it.

I have no idea what I need to do.

>> it has a coaching function in it.

>> Yeah, click on coaching within the menu, and you can actually get a 10-minute session with someone from our team in EveryDollar Pro who can help you get unstuck. And on top of that, there's a ton of group coaching, ongoing coaching you can jump into. I encourage you to do that. And then on the investment side, if you're like, "Hey, you said I'm illiterate when it comes to investing.

I don't want to screw this up." We >> We got you there, too. You can reach out to a SmartVestor Pro on our website, and they will help you navigate this newfound wealth that you're about to be building with So exciting.

I have. >> When's When's the last time you watched it?

Um it's a favorite. Yeah.

>> I I watched it a lot as >> would queue it up after you do everything that George said, cuz you know, Rose is the name of the title character, and I think this is like you

and your husband after you clear all these steps, it's your heart will go on.

Maybe maybe you go The next step is to be a millionaire. Maybe you go get a boat on the nearest lake, and you don't buy one. You're going to rent one just for the day. We're going to pay cash, and you're going to get out there, and he's going to be behind you, and you're going to do the whole My Heart Will Go On, and you're free, and And we'll let that be the end of the movie.

We're not going to continue in the plot. >> Yes, no more. Just that part. Just the good part.

Just the free >> shared the door. The debt-free part, right?

That's what life is going to feel like on the other side of this. Pardon the cheesy metaphor, but it may be one of the greatest movies of all time, George.

This is a amazing launchpad for you, Rose. I'm so proud of you. And you were very wise to be self-aware and a little paranoid and go, "I don't trust people with this. I don't know what to do with this." I'm so glad you called us. We are here for you if you need anything else.

ramsaysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro, click on real estate Pro. They will guide you in this and our EveryDollar team will help you out figuring out the app. >> coaching side of it. Click the coaching button. EveryDollar is with you the whole way. You know, you won't be alone.

Rose, we're so proud of you. You were You're a blast of fresh air today. Thank you for calling us.

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Let's go to Jackie next in Philadelphia.

Jackie, how can we help today?

Thanks for taking my call. Um I I have a situation um my daughter is getting ready to graduate from high school. Um she has uh an educational IRA that um grandparents have been giving her money ever since she was a baby. So, we have that. We have about $30,000 in that.

Um she was also gifted to about 15,000

um about 4 years ago and I'm not exactly sure when, but her dad uh encouraged her to invest some take that some of that money and invest it in silver.

Um he is under the impression that it is going to go to $300 an ounce.

Um >> of insider knowledge does he have? I think only God himself knows that information. I Yeah, I keep asking those questions and it's it's um maybe in conspiracy theory type stuff. Um it's he is very confident in his assertions and hence my um struggle with trying to get her to say,

"Well, yeah, you probably have made some money recently in silver, but it's time to pull it out and put it into something less volatile. Like take advantage of what you've earned and like put it into something that you're not going to lose on." And he wants her to hold it on hold on to it for the big win and I'm seeing like it could also be the big lose. So I'm so sad I would be sad for her to lose any gains that she's had and I'm not confident in like going up against all his knowledge and >> I wouldn't call it knowledge.

I think that's a very generous word you used for his Yeah, it's a strong opinion.

Are you two married?

We're in the middle of divorce. Okay, the way you were talking about it, okay, that makes sense. Number one. And so that makes this trickier.

Because now it's a splintered situation.

Who knows what she's feeling. I don't know if she's taking sides.

So this is a little trickier, George, with with this guy. >> of emotion and baggage behind it cuz if she takes his side it feels like, oh, you're choosing now one parent over the other. Because you have definitely see that. >> You'll have different advice and because you're not the quote unquote financial guru, you feel like you don't even have a voice in this conversation.

Correct. Right? Yes. Which I'm I'm going to go

out on a limb here. Part of all of this is probably why this marriage is being dissolved.

Yes.

And so there are some really hard conversations you're going to have with your daughter where you're not going to make him look bad, but you're going to share a different perspective and do it in a calm way that isn't conspiratorial or fear-mongering, which is probably what she's hearing right now.

Yes. So how old is she you said?

She's 18. Okay. She's 18 years old and how much does she have total? Is it 15,000 total and she purchased some silver out of that?

Yes. Yeah. Okay. So how much silver does

she actually have? I asked her that and she's not exactly sure. Her dad told her that it may be up

to 30,000 right now.

But he's given her the impression that that's a static number. Like you've got that. And it's only on paper kind of thing. Okay. >> I'm not sure of her original investment.

I'm not sure what her actual number is.

>> silver that was purchased? >> Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, I can tell you

the less stressful way to go about this is to just park that money in a tax-advantaged retirement account or even non-retirement account. It really doesn't matter. But the idea here is if this was working for her in the stock market from the age of 18 to let's say 58. All right, let's give it a 40-year run. And let's say she did all 15,000 over there. Is that fair as well?

I don't think but okay. Let's call it 10.

Yeah. Okay. $10,000 18 to 58. She never

adds another dollar. Do you understand that she just parks 10K, let's it grow in the stock market. Yeah. At a 10% rate of return, which they're going to come at me. That's just the data. If you look back in fact from 1950 to now, it's more like 11.8%.

So if you just let it ride, she'd have over half a million dollars.

Yeah. And that's without her worrying about it, without her losing her physical silver, without worrying about what the economy is doing.

And the truth is silver and gold have gone up in value in times where the economy is shaky. And they go back down in value as the stock market picks back up. But over time, if you actually look at the full picture, you will see the stock market has far out performed any of these uh commodities and assets. So I'm on team Jackie. I don't know how to convince your husband in the middle of that or convince your daughter while going through all of this. But the truth is nothing is urgent.

>> Yeah. What did you >> She does have school like she's got college to pay for. So is that >> college money. >> her school completely?

Depends on what school she goes to.

Well, so you've given us a lot of variables. What what is what is the What how can we help you the most now that we got a full picture? Is there something we didn't address?

No, what you're saying is if we do cash it out, which is what I I want her to do. And so I'm in a you know, you think that's a good idea to take the whatever gains and so you're saying it should be

put in like another IRA or because she's

going to need to take it out in a year or so. >> Well, in that case, I would just cash it out and leave it in a high yield savings account so that it's liquid for her to pay for college. Cuz what's going to happen is she's going to go deeply into debt for college cuz I guarantee you unless she goes to the community college down the road, 10K ain't getting you very far. >> That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And there's no other money you're saying? No, she has 30,000 in an educational IRA. She has 30,000 educational and then this silver money is on top of it.

>> Got it. So that's an education savings account, ESA, is that what you're talking about?

Okay. So that might get her through one year potentially depending on where she goes, but we got to think about the next three. And so that's where I mean, let's keep it liquid. I don't think you're going to see a lot of growth in the next one year, two year, three year.

In fact, that money could go down. So you want to keep it more liquid because we need this for short-term goals. And I And I'm just add this, Jackie. Um she's 18 years old.

You've got an ex soon-to-be ex-husband who is going to be telling her hold it uh because I'm brilliant and I know this is going to pay off.

And then you're given the exact opposite advice. So I'm just trying to encourage you as her mother. This is not about winning the argument.

I think you just have to say, "Can I give you another school of thought?" And do what George did with you. Show her uh

how that money should be used in your opinion and then you got to let it ride because you're just in a tough situation where you got two parents. She's the one that's the victim in this deal.

And so we don't know the dynamics of who she's choosing, what she's feeling. Who does she listen to more on money? Does she listen to her dad or you? So there's so much there.

I'm just trying to make what is already a very tough situation for you uh hopefully as stress-free as possible that you got to explain it and let let It's all you can do. You what I'm saying, George? Like it's just uh Well, and hearing that she's needing to go to college and pay for it, I go, "Well, it's not an argument about where to invest this money. It's we need to invest in her right now and her current education, not what could happen in the future.

If she does this right and graduates debt-free, we're not going to have to worry about her investing for the future. She'll be just fine." That's exactly right.

right, turns into over half a million dollars. I don't think the average family with parents are saying, "You know what? I may be struggling with that.

I may be trying to get out of this, but I've got a 15-year-old or 14-year-old, and if I can start telling them this now and they go get just a summer job at 15, 16, 17, you know, it's not as

difficult as we might think. Yeah. For a

young person to come up with 10 grand over the course of three or four summers, right? >> Well, investing in general has been democratized in the last even decade to where now it's easy you can open a Roth IRA, and any child is actually excited about it cuz they saw a TikTok about it.

And so, financial literacy is all around you. The problem is there's so much noise that no one ends up doing any of it. They just go, "That's a cool. I'm going to save that for later." And yet no one's investing.

And so, if you can convince your kid that it's the uh it's the old uh what is it? The the marshmallow >> Mhm. test. Yeah.

You give a kid, "Hey, you can have one marshmallow now or you can have two in an hour." Most of the kids are going to go, "I'll take the marshmallow right now." And what this is, it's a lesson in delayed gratification. Yeah. And at 15, your brain can't fully comprehend that. You want to go to the mall with your friends.

You don't want to park it in a retirement account. But you use our investment calculator, ramsaysolutions.com, they're going to go, "Hold on, Mom. I'm confused. 10,000 turned into 500,000?

Explain that to me." Now you've got an in to talk about compound growth and the power of delayed gratification. >> in that calculator at ramseysolutions.com and punch in different numbers. I did this the other day, George, you'd have been very happy with my son my son Chase and one of his buddies. I They we were talking about it.

I said, "All right, let me get my laptop out." So, I go downstairs, bring it back up, and I said, "All right, guys, give me some numbers." After I explained it, they were losing their minds.

>> they just saw that and they were like, "That's real." Versus me telling them versus showing them. It's good stuff. >> Calculator can't lie.

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>> Hey, if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it, George, is by using every dollar. It's more now than just a budgeting app. The plan is built into every dollar. In

other words, you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations, and coaching for your particular situation. And uh

it's like having one of us walking around with you. Uh could you imagine having George on your phone all day long? I don't think I would be delighted. >> your phone off eventually. You'd get sick of this guy. I want to know if I could get you to record all the basic responses that Siri does for me, and it would be your voice. A little snark in there? Yeah. Yeah. And just Especially before you make a purchase. I think I could talk you off a lot of ledges.

That's what we need. George as your conscience. >> like, "Hey, Google a promo code first." That's a good idea. Hey, you can start every dollar for free right now by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Shannon's up next in Washington, D.C. Shannon, how can we help?

Hello. Um so, I'm calling because um I'm

new to the snowball method. So, you know, I'm just trying to gather everything and and and get that done on paper. Um I want I need to get a new car cuz currently I am pregnant, and my car that I currently have right now, it's been broken into a couple of times.

And there's like issues with it, so I just kind of don't feel safe having a baby in that car at the moment. Um the issue is that my car loan still has about $15,000 on it. Um and I wanted to I I called the contact the car company, and they don't refinance.

So, I would have to either have a new car loan with the new company for the new car and this current car loan, or I

would have to find a car loan company that would take care of this current car, and then also add a new car payment on top of

that, and I just don't know I'm really where to start on that, or if I should just wait until after I have the baby, and like save and try to get like a car from like an auction or something, cuz Well, let's play that one out. So, that's that's our The other two options were aren't possible and and aren't something that we're going to agree to. >> You gave us this solution sucks, and this one sucks even more, and therefore we're going to find an option C for you that doesn't involve you going into more debt.

So, you you were thinking I could work, I could save. What does that look like?

Um well, currently right now, um I do

work full-time. I make about 65 a year.

Um but, unfortunately, my check right now is being garnished due to I have the

devil of the credit card.

Um so, >> got a judgment against you from unpaid credit cards?

Correct, yes. What other debts do you have?

I have, outside of the car, um student loans, about 12K on that. Um and

uh that's about it. Again, I'm still new on finding all of my debts and pulling credit reports and stuff like that. So, those are like the two biggest ones that I have. >> Okay. And you're married?

No, not currently.

Okay. Is the father in the picture?

Yes, he is. Is he supportive?

>> as well. Mhm. Yeah, what do the finances

look like for the family?

Well, he works um he has two jobs. He works part-time, and then he has his own business. Um so, the part-time,

I would say probably about three

to like 4,000 a month. Maybe no, probably 3,000 a month. And then his other business is a transport service, so it kind of varies depending on the job that he takes.

So likely is that 40 plus grand a year?

Probably probably. Okay. Are you guys planning on getting married?

Um eventually, but um yeah, I was never really surprised to be pregnant, but um but yeah, eventually that Well, what is eventually? Do you have an idea if you were We're not holding you to this, but what do you >> We're We're trying to get to the financial facts here and it changes it drastically if you make a 100,000 versus 60. So what is eventually you think? If he was sitting here with George and I, we're just having a fun conversation, not putting you on the spot, we go, "What's eventually look like?

When would you guys thinking that you guys were going to get married?" What would you What would he say?

I would probably say in like 2 years, maybe. >> Goodness gracious.

Shannon, is Is he the one or is he just the dad?

You can be honest.

Cuz I'm not going to force you to get married to someone you don't want to be married to.

Right. Yeah, I mean, as it stands right now, he is just the dad. Um we do live

together and you know, we've been in this relationship, but as far as like it progressing, I mean, I'm not I'm not like 100% sure if it's going to be.

So you're going to continue to play married couple, but not combine finances, have zero support, and just basically do all of this on your own, while being a new mom.

Um I mean, I never thought I'd be in this situation, but Right. I know. And I I've

I'm I have so much empathy for you cuz I'm going, "This sucks so badly that if I was this person in your life, the father of your child, I'm going to go, well, time to put my big boy pants on and step up and provide for my wife who's in crippling debt while being pregnant cuz the stress of that is not good.

Not good for you mentally, physically, emotionally. So, the key to get out of this, back to your question, is we're not going to go into debt. We're going to save up with our income to get a different car.

Now, how much is the car actually worth if you were to sell it?

Um it has a lot of problems with it cuz again somebody tried to steal it a couple of times.

Um so, when I did like the Kelley Blue Book, it's probably only worth like like 5,000 at the most.

>> Did you file any insurance claims?

I didn't have insurance at the time.

Oh boy, do you have insurance now?

For that car, no.

Shannon, you are putting yourself at huge risk.

I would cut everything down to the bone before I went without insurance.

Yeah. This is bad. You make $65,000. Is there

not a dollar left at the end of the month?

No, well, I mean there is but I had really bad um payday loans and so that

was taking a lot of my money um at at one time and I mean there's still um some of them that are due but I'm So,

we're adding You You told me you had car loans, student loans, and credit card judgment but not payday loans. How much is on the payday loans?

Um well, I had I'd probably say in total

probably like 7,000. Okay. Let's get real clear on

that credit report. Let's lay them out smallest to largest and then you're going to make a budget for the first time. I'm going to gift you every dollar, our premium budgeting app, so that you can make a plan on purpose with this app and then stick to it.

So that if you get four or five grand in a month, you're going to know where every single dollar is going. And all you're going to do is cover your four walls right now, food, utility, shelter, transportation, and insurance. You're going to get car insurance today. You're going to go to Dave Ramsey Solutions.com and our team can help you find the coverage that you need in your budget.

That's your number one piece of homework. And then after that, it's that every dollar budget. Set it up. Our team will walk you through it. You can set up a free coaching call right there in the app to jump on a call with someone from our team if you get stuck. And then it becomes a game of how much can I save?

How quickly can I save? Because we have some urgency here with this baby on the way. When is the baby due?

In August.

So we only have a couple of months to do this. Which means in the meantime, the baby might need to survive in this vehicle.

And the good news is you're not going to leave that baby alone in the car. The car's not getting broken into while you're in it, right?

Right. Yeah. And so as long as it's not dangerous, it's not overheating on the highway, you're going to have to drive this car for a season until you have enough to get a different car. Yeah.

And Shayna, listen, you're going to talk to other people that are going to tell you that we're crazy.

And that you need a safe brand new car and you'll just figure it out. But I'm going to tell you something.

How would you describe your stress on a scale of 1 to 10 related to money right now? Uh, like a 12. 12. Okay, do you think that's good for your little baby and your body?

No. And do you think taking on another car payment that's even bigger is going to help in any way, shape, or form? To help you get out of this mess? No. No.

Not at all. We might be the only people telling you the truth. >> Exactly right. And you can do this, by the way. >> We're rooting for you. We're not trying to be harsh on you. We're trying to give you the reality so you can face the facts and then take the proper next steps. So jump on Dave Ramsey Solutions.com, get that auto insurance, we'll help you get that every dollar budget set up and you will feel so much better just being able to look at the numbers in reality.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside.

We're here for you today. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. Chase joins us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chase, how can we help today?

Well, hi, sir. Um, like you already know, my name is Chase. I'm 20 years old. I currently work as an auto body technician, which means um, as

a flat rate employee, my my income is quite variable. With that

being said, I'm about $30,000 $30,000 in debt spread across the

$16,000 poor decision toolbox.

Um, about $11,000 a little more to my

grandparents interest-free.

And the rest is all on credit cards and whatnot.

My main question is is I have a horrible

issue with a spending problem whenever I'm doing good at work.

And if I were to get stressed out, I just go and blow my money in retail therapy. And

what I can pay off in debt by the time I

end up having a slow period in work like now around spring break, nobody's getting their car to fix, they uh I end up underwater and barely able to make my bills.

Um, >> Well, the first thing I want to say to you is good on you for calling us and

calling out what's going on. I mean, that's the self-awareness is awesome, Chase. And I think that's the first step to you winning.

You know, I just want to applaud you because you know there's something going on inside of you that when something goes wrong, stress, whatever, you immediately go buy something to make yourself feel better. That's a big deal and I encourage you to keep digging into that. And and and come up with tools, whether that's to go see a therapist or just do some hard work to go, "You know what? I'm going to create some accountability in my life.

Um, I'm going to have somebody that I can call and that can talk me off the the uh retail therapy ledge, okay? I just wanted to encourage you on that cuz that's half the battle, okay?

let's let's get into this debt. Did you Let's let's talk about lay it out Get give us the smallest to largest.

Smallest to largest, um, the the smallest are some payment plans like

Chase Pay in 4 and Cash App Borrow that

I use on the slow weeks when I don't have enough to cover my bills that I have to tap into those to, you know, buy food. >> a great solution for that. Can you delete those apps?

Um, I Well, the Chase is my Chase banking app, so I >> Stop banking with Chase.

Stop banking with Chase? >> Yeah, switch banks.

Okay, and the Cash App is that that's how I pay my grandparents. This is the Cash App because I can't use Use Venmo.

>> Think about it. If this was a casino, you'd be like, "Well, I should probably make it really difficult for me to go into the casino again." What kind of stuff are you buying?

Um, really it's anything. I mean, it it

used to be uh, it used to be tools through Snap-on

and all the other tool brands, but I've I've gotten myself away from that and >> What are you What are you What are you What are you buying? Give me a quick Give me a quick list. There's a reason I'm asking this.

Yeah, clothes, video games, uh I'd sell it. Yeah, that's right.

>> you need a behavior George is locking in on something. He inspired me to ask that question. You've got to make some changes. That's why I said change the bank. Delete the apps.

Uh, you've got to make some changes to try to put up some hurdles because you're just so quickly salving your wounds by spending. So, I was hoping you had some tools. I was thinking a guy in your line of work had some really expensive tools that we could sell and even if it's 80% of what you bought it for, that's real cash to create some initial momentum and actually I think it's ritual. I'm a big fan of rituals at times. When the rituals are tied to um change in emotion.

And I think you need to go sell some stuff. Even it's clothes. Even you got to go take it to a second hand store and get 50% of what it was or whatever that is. I have no idea. But >> There's like Poshmark and all kinds of apps you can use to sell stuff. So I would only download an app if it's going to make you money, not cost you money.

>> Ooh, that's your new filter and value.

That's good. That's good. And then I'm I'm confused, Chase, cuz I know we got a lot of great auto body shops around here. I can't get a car in there.

They're like, "Hey, we got a 2-week backlog." And so I don't buy that work is so slow that nobody's bringing their car in. I don't know what that says about the shop you're working for, but I would find one that stays busy.

Yeah, and that that has been the problem, too. I I actually made that decision a few months ago. The The last shop I was at was slowing down because of poor management and whatnot. So I moved to this new shop. >> That's why shops slow down, not because cars stop breaking down randomly during spring break. >> Yeah, good point. So there's problem number one. What are you actually making a per month on average?

On average, um about Like Like I said,

it's so hard to know. On a On a good month, I'm making 6,000. On a bad month, I'm making 2,500 to 3,000. Okay. And are you living at home?

Uh no, I I have my own place. Okay.

What's your rent cost?

$750 a month. Okay. That's reasonable

for your income, so that's not the issue. So here's what we need to do. On the good months, you need to go, "That is not my money to spend. That is Chase Bank's money." That is the buy now, pay later company's money, cuz it's really not yours.

You signed something that said, "I will pay you this money back when I have it." Right?

Right. So now it's an integrity issue.

So just make it an integrity issue and then remove all of the reasons you could go spend that money. And that means deleting the apps, adding the friction, cutting up the credit cards. Have you actually closed these credit cards and closed these buy now pay later accounts?

I have not. That's your next homework assignment. You know how I've stayed out of debt? I was 40 grand in debt when I was 23 years old, Chase. And when I got out, you know how I stayed out? I didn't give myself the option to go back in.

>> Mhm. I didn't have a way. I froze my credit with all three credit bureaus cuz I know I'm able and willing to do stupid stuff with money.

So, that's the kind of value line in the sand you need to draw for yourself because the good news is you are so young that you have so much time to make up for the stupid tax. And one day you'll look back and go, "That was cute.

Remember when I was in 30 grand in debt?

Never again, man. I learned my lesson." Yeah. And I'm going to tell you something, your way out of this, Chase, is getting to a better shop or picking up a second

job where there's a good run shop and they need quality hands. I just think you have way more money you're leaving on the table than you realize.

>> You could go detail cars in people's driveways and make 500 bucks in a weekend.

Okay. >> True or false?

True. True. Definitely true.

>> Chase, we're trying to encourage you.

You are not that much in debt. I mean, the kind of calls we get, I'm telling you 30 grand for somebody like you who has ability, who has time, and I think

you got the gumption now. Again, that's why I applauded you right at the start of the call. You want to change, don't you? I I really do. Okay, you know what's on the other side of this is you deciding to do what George said, but then actually go work yourself silly. And when you have a bad day, instead of retail therapy, you go work somewhere.

You got me? I I got you. And

um one one one more question. I I want to let you guys >> We don't have a time for another question. I apologize, but you got enough to work on. You got enough answers here. Go back and watch this call that as your homework assignment, and don't do it because Ken and George said to. Do it because Chase's future is worth it. That's the new value you have for every single time you go to spend money.

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All right, let's go to Frank in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Frank, how can we help today?

Hi, this question is about my 10-year-old daughter. My household income is about double that of my ex-wife's and lately my daughter has been saying to me things like that's so expensive or

she wants to pay for things that are my responsibility like clothes and shoes for money she's gotten either for birthdays or holidays or for chores.

What can I do on my end to help her with what I think is just a worry about money

that maybe she's getting from uh my my ex-wife's situation.

Yeah, that's really interesting.

Do you Do you talk about money around

her when you were married even just a few years ago she's 10 so she's been picking up stuff you know probably even at six and seven begin to pick up anxiety around money and I wonder if before you got divorced was that situation where she would have overheard arguments about money or do you think it's all from your ex-wife talking about money in a fearful way always telling her we don't have enough we don't have enough. What do you think is driving the fear?

Well, we we've we've been divorced since she was around five. Okay. So I I think maybe just that situation. So really it's your ex-wife you think is is scarcity mindset

based on reality and talking about it a lot around her?

Maybe. I'd ask. You know what I would do if I were you and again I I'm a dad.

I if I was in your situation, I'd sit down with her and go, "Hey, honey, you know that dad can buy that for you.

I have I have more than enough money to be able to do these things for you, but you're worried about it. Can we talk about that? What causes you to worry about it?" Just real don't put her on defense, but just real You know how to connect to her. I would I would get her to talk to you about it. And and you What you want is her to tell you her fears and worries, but more importantly, you want to know why she's worried and what's causing it. And that you need to address.

Okay. And then, when you buy something for her, go, "Hey, honey, I want to reassure you. I've I've got plenty of money. Dad's very smart with money." Use phrases that one day she'll understand. Like, I budget. You know what I mean? Just talk to her like she's an adult, and she'll pick up a lot of it, but what she's looking for is reassurance.

And so, when you go to buy her something, she's projecting onto you what I guess she's picking up from her mother.

George, am I off on this?

>> spot-on. It reminds me Rachel Cruze wrote a book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she walks through these different money classrooms we grow up in, and this is the anxious classroom,

like we're we're getting at here, and she's she's worried about There is a scarcity mindset, and the best thing you can do is to reframe this whole thing as, "Hey, what I'm doing for you is a gift, which means you need to do nothing in return. This is an act of generosity.

This is not a sacrifice. You're not putting me out. You're not a burden.

This is something I want to do as your father, who loves you." And I think that's the best thing you can do for her is realize this isn't your money You don't You might have financial worries one day. Today's not that day, sweetheart. Daddy's got you. All right.

And she's so young that she can't fully even understand what's going on. And so, these conversations will continue, and they'll get a little more intense as she gets more age-appropriate.

And then teach her to give, too. I think that That's one of the most freeing things you can do for someone who's anxious with money is to show them that if they give it, it will actually lower their anxiety, and they're not going to run out of money all of a sudden.

Okay. I think that's it. Money comes from work. Dad works hard. Dad stays out of debt. Dad put money in savings, and now he has the ability to be generous with other people, especially those that he loves. And you are one of those people.

And Frank, you're a good dad, you know?

So. Mhm. Thank you. Keep taking care of your money. Are you solid financially?

Yes. No debt?

Well, fin- finishing up a tiny bit.

What's that? Finishing up >> Finishing up a tiny bit. Okay, great.

So, hey, that's the other thing. Get out of debt. Have a strong emergency fund.

You know what I mean? And all those things are going to give you more peace.

And here's what The reason I asked that, Frank, is not to put you on the spot. It's to show It's to tell you that everything we just said will help, but what will help even more is if she feels zero tension coming off of you around money. And if you're debt-free with a fat emergency fund, and a great

retirement plan, you're going to put out

an ease that she will pick up on. Make sense? >> is caught than taught, as we say. Yeah.

Okay. That's the last piece of it, all right? And I don't know on on both sides, because there's a divorce in the mix, does it feel like you're trying to buy her love? And I know you're not doing that, but does it come across that way when mom feels small now because dad bought her all this stuff?

Is that part of it?

I don't know. No, I don't think so.

Okay. Yep. Well, take her out on a date. Do what we told you to do.

And then explain to her, "Hey, I'm in good shape. This is what I'm doing." And begin to just talk about what you're doing. "I'm going to be debt-free in 4 months, and then this." And it like just talk to her and and and she's going to feel that and and more importantly learn what you're doing. And we hope she learns yours because and we're not trying to create a contrast here, but if

she experiences you very differently on money than she does her mother, uh hopefully she's going to go dad's modeling the way and you are the model and that's what she goes after. So, thanks for the call, Frank. Anthony's up in Cincinnati. Anthony, how can we help you today?

Thank you all for taking my call. A little bit of background, I turned 52 next week. I've worked for Dave's absolute favorite employer, the IRS, since 2008 and I did

My plan and my wife were to retire in 5

years uh from the IRS. That would give me the full medical, dental, all that good stuff. This year I was moved out of IT with a

whole bunch of other folks to reviewing business tax returns. I hate this job.

Mhm. You didn't sign up for that, did you? No, I signed up for IT and a whole bunch of us just got moved over. Yeah. But, what I'm trying to get at is I'm looking at changing careers and studying for my SIE exam and moving to like a Charles Schwab type place.

And the point of my call is I'm just looking for permission to make that change. Yeah.

Well, it's not something that I can give, but I will tell you that you absolutely should change because

just go down the rabbit hole tonight on

what stress in a job that you can't stand and it's a different kind of stress. It's a I have no purpose in this. I can't stand it. Just go do the research on what it does to your body, what it does to your mind, and that will be I think the last domino that needs to fall. I don't even think you need it, but I would go do it.

Um I absolutely believe you should transition to something else. You're still a young guy. You still have a lot of life left and a lot you can give and quite frankly a whole lot more money you can make. So, I absolutely would get out

of there as soon as I could. I would not stay around for health benefits

and pensions. I just never would.

>> health is going to decline in the next 5 years. >> not going to trade 5 years of misery for

really good eye care, dental care, and all those things. When you can afford that in a better gig.

The only additional piece of information cuz my wife is pushing in the same direction you all are is I'm probably going to take about a 100k pay cut per year to make this transition.

Well, what are you making now?

170k.

And you're going to go down to 70 you think if you move into the financial sector?

I I will take an entry-level position just to get my foot in the door and work up from there, but yeah, I'll I'll take Well, it's never it's it's never the ideal situation. My question is is if that happened today, could you live off of 70?

Absolutely. We've been listening to Dave and following him for 20 years. So, we've got We're We're totally debt-free including the house. We've got the emergency fund and all that good stuff.

>> do you have in the nest egg?

>> Uh the nest egg is 750k in the TSP and

55 cash liquid. Fantastic.

>> going to I'm going to say yes and

I'm okay with you taking the cut if you take your IT experience and you do some freelancing for maybe 6 to 12 months until you get get your sea legs if possible. I know that's with an asterisk, but maybe maybe we could get an uh $50,000 in uh some freelance work with

your technology skills. And maybe you go get a a great IT job in the meantime and work on your licensing and then you switch over. >> That's right. That's a nice bridge, too.

I like the bridge here, Anthony. That's what we're telling you. It makes it less That's a cliff. I got to jump. That's right.

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>> All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed, but Y Refi helps borrowers explore low

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Today's question comes from Ryan in Montana. I've been following the baby steps for 2 years and it feels incredible to no longer be living paycheck to paycheck. I no longer use credit cards and want to close them as part of embracing a cash-only lifestyle.

What is the wisest way to approach this?

Do I close them all at once, or is there a smarter, more gradual approach I should take? If I close them all at once, are there any potential risks I should be aware of?

Great question from Ryan. Very astute.

>> Yes. I rarely use that word, but this feels like the perfect >> getting ready to compliment you on good usage there. Sometimes the words just come to me, Ken. >> And it does.

So, um that the heart of the question is he wants to follow the plan. He's worried about essentially his credit score. That's really what's at risk here. Uh the credit score going down as you close all these cards, because your credit score is partially based on how many accounts you've had open, how long they've been open.

They're very upset that you've abandoned them, and they will punish you with a lower score temporarily. Now, it's not going to tank your credit. You're not going to have an issue like renting an apartment, but in the meantime, for a couple of months, it might dip a little bit. And then what will happen if you truly close all open accounts that have to do with debt, you will have no credit score after about 6 to 12 months if you do it right.

That's what happened to me. It's what's happened to several uh people out there, millions now, that have followed this plan that are credit invisible, as we call them. So, your credit score becomes indeterminable, and then you just live your life. And renting a car every rental car company has a debit card policy. When it comes to renting an apartment, they'll go, "Hey, are you a criminal? Nope. Great.

You'll have to pay a little bit more in the deposit, but sure, you can rent from us." And even with a mortgage, I went through a process called manual underwriting to get a mortgage without a credit score.

And it was all kind of a nothing burger, Ken. They kind of made it out to seem like you cannot live without a credit score. You can't live without a credit card. And I realized very quickly it was a farce cuz they've never done it. Yeah, it's absolutely right. >> Just go for it. I don't think you're going to regret it on the other side.

And uh if you could got to do it all in.

That means closing all accounts that have to do with debt in order to actually have no credit score. Yeah, absolutely. Good advice. Let's go to Jim next in Dallas, Texas. Jim, how can we help today? Hey guys, how are y'all? Good. What's going on? Hey, so uh I'm switching employers in 2 weeks. I got a better paying job. Um but I uh a year ago, unfortunately, I took out a 401k loan. Uh I've been paying on it. But I owe about $15,675

uh left on it. Um and I'm not sure what I should do about that cuz I don't have that money.

Uh and uh it's going to become it's going to default basically if I don't pay it off within like 30 days. Yeah, did you get the actual details in the fine print?

Is it 30 days from today or when you You already put in your 2 weeks?

Yeah, it's from date of separation. So um when I when I leave the company, 30 days later. Okay. So what day is that?

Uh I think it's like May uh 22nd.

May 22nd. So we've got a little over a month. How much can you save up in a given month?

Um >> a bonus from the employer? Is there anything like that? No, no bonus. I I'm putting about 6,000 away in uh for the debt snowball right now. We're on baby step two. So I I can, you know, I can ramp that up a little bit, but not enough to cover the gap.

Mhm. Do you have anything you could sell, or is there anything you could do as a side hustle? Well, we've sold everything but the kids already. But I'm not sure. >> Yes. Okay, spouse is working outside the home as well? Yes, indeed. What is the

what's what income is going to roll through your fingers in the next 30 days? Um we're we're doing about 12,000

household income right now. I think I it should go up to about 13.5 with the new role. And how much do you need to survive and pay the bills and minimum on debts? Uh it's about 4,500. Okay.

So that's eight grand you could pay.

Yep, that sounds right. Right? And that's if that's just if we just use that income and do nothing else. We don't find extra stuff to sell, stuff to flip, do side hustles, get the whole family involved here. So the best option is obviously to pay the balance back within the window. I would find out generally it's a 90-day window, so I'm surprised this one is a 30. I would see if there's any leniency with that. If you go, "Hey, can you give me 60 days?"

Okay. That's your best bet, cuz in 60 days you've got it covered.

Yeah, somebody had mentioned the idea of a QPLO and paying it back by the next tax year. I've never heard of that and I'm Yeah, I'm not familiar with the old QPLO. I'd have to look into that. But the worst thing you can do is to do nothing and let it default, cuz you will lose 30 to 40% of that loan balance to the IRS. So that will just absolutely destroy your wealth. So I would just act like this is

my one goal in life is to pay this back.

I make this like a Liam Neeson movie.

Wow, you're on fire right now.

>> of intensity from Jim. I agree.

Yeah, but you can take it from my 401k.

Exactly. You got 40 days to recover to

recover this money and get the IRS and this employer off your back. Thanks, Jim. Appreciate the call. Let's go to Paige in Kansas City. Paige, how can we help today?

Hi. So, me and my fiance just bought a house last year and we both have car payments and his student debt was um

handed off to a collection agency. So, we have a couple different loans that we're trying to pay off and I know in the baby steps it says that like pay off your smallest loan first but

our smallest loan doesn't have an interest rate so we're trying to figure out what the best route of action is to

like what loan to pay off first.

Why don't you lay those out lay those out for us, smallest to largest? So

we live in a um oh, you said smallest.

So, our smallest is the student loan.

It's $7,034.59.

$162 a month with 0% interest.

My fiance's car is at $9,645

left on the loan. It's a $400 a month payment and it's at a 17% interest rate.

That's the one that I would like to pay off. And then my car is 28,000 left with

a $600 a month payment and a 4.66%

interest. And our house is 50,000 left with a 630

around a month. We pay bi-weekly so sometimes we pay three times a month.

It's at a 10.75% interest.

What do you mean by house?

So, we live in a trailer house but we also have lot rent because we rent the land that our house sits on but we own our actual house. Okay, cuz this this trailer is going down in value so it's more like a vehicle. It's not going to appreciate like a traditional home.

So, here's the truth. Interest rates are not your problem.

Mhm. It's financial behavior that's the problem. And so, that's why the debt snowball works because if you were trying to attack interest rates and doing math here, we wouldn't have gone into all this debt. So, how much do you actually make per year?

My fiance it's a little bit harder to determine right now cuz I just switched jobs. Um I'm a nail tech now, so I'm making 18 an hour flat rate with 40 hours guaranteed a week. Okay, so you're making about 38 grand.

And you have a $28,000 car.

But I also make a lot in tips. I average between between 10 to 20 per client and I have about five to seven clients a day. Okay, so you're making closer to 50 or 60? Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah, around. And I have >> too much of your world. Mhm. If you sold this car, it would really alleviate things. And the second thing is are you guys combining finances? Are you just paying off your debts and he's paying off his? Are you guys all pooling money together?

So, we're we're trying to um we haven't done it yet, but we need to combine our bank accounts and we're doing 50/50 and my car I pay and his car and his student debt he pays. This is a real problem.

You guys shouldn't be combining finances until you're married cuz you're creating a real mess.

Okay. What what if something happened?

He leaves and you just paid off his car debt while you still have a bunch of >> Well, I'm not I'm not paying on his car and he's not paying You guys need to focus on your own debts right now until you're married and then combine finances and it will get a whole lot easier and less messier at that point. But you got to start owning up and stop looking at interest rates and start looking in the mirror.

>> Buying or selling your home is a big deal, you know that. And with all the clickbait stuff out there and the conflicting data, it's hard to know what's really happening. We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up a little to $403,000 last month. Mortgage

rates also dipped uh to 5.4 point uh 5.43%, excuse me,

down from 6.16 we saw last February. And

that gave buyers some breathing room. Uh but you know this, rates can be unpredictable. So, if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market.

That's ramseysolutions.com/market.

Or you can click the link in the show notes. Let's stay right here in Nashville, where Catherine joins us. Catherine, how can we help today?

Hi. Um thanks for taking my call.

Um so, uh about a year ago

uh my husband and I decided to put some money Well, to make put some debts into Freedom Debt Relief, which is a I'm sure you know, a debt consolidation. I know that you guys do not um uh

um recommend recommend. Thank you.

I'm a little bit nervous. Oh, it's all good. Take your time.

That you guys don't recommend those. Um but it was an emotional thing.

My husband and my had surgery and like just the debt was just racking up. And

Freedom Debt Relief, the salesperson being the salesperson he is, like I actually said, you know, you know, I know this isn't Dave Ramsey recommended and he was like, oh, no, Dave Ramsey actually does recommend us.

And I was like, I didn't say anything, but I knew that he didn't. But my question is >> have said, oh, he does, I'd love to see that clip or that article where he recommends that.

Oh, yeah, I should have said that.

>> Well, there won't be a next time, so I can't say use it next time, but Yeah, I know. Okay, so you signed up?

>> Yes, we did about a year ago. And what my question is, we're doing a much better financial position now.

My husband got a new job and we're just in a better financial position. And I want to start doing debt snowball. And first it's a thousand dollars and uh you know, all those baby steps. Mhm. Um, but

I'm wondering, should I take out

um what hasn't been paid off already

in the Freedom Debt Relief?

Yes.

Yes. And >> of the process cuz you can do what they're doing on your own without the fees and the hassle.

And without tanking your credit, which they've already done. That part's Yes.

>> We can't undo that. >> tanked. Yeah, but all they're doing is negotiating with your creditors after you default.

And coming up with a lump sum. You do that yourself. That's right. If you couldn't pay, you just wouldn't pay. And then goes to collections and then you say, hey, would you take four grand for my ten grand debt lump sum if it's paid market paid in full in writing? Great.

Done.

Okay. And should I because they have um um because the percentage they were taking um the Freedom Debt Relief, they uh basically I was saving like I did the math. I was basically saving like $100 or $200, which is not great.

Um, the ones that they are currently paying though on, should I leave those in there because there are two that have

uh that they are currently paying on that

um that they negotiated. How many more payments are there?

Um, one is uh it's a total of 36 and I

think I've paid four to six. I'd have to

look on the um uh and the other one um it has like 24 and I think I've paid like four or five.

Okay. I would read the contract to see what you can and can't do and read the cancellation clause to figure out what you have to do to get out. But, I would just tell them, "Hey, I want to get completely out of this." And you might need to do a written notice. It's like a Planet Fitness. You They get you in real easy, but to get out it's an act of Congress. So, Yeah. I would definitely get out cuz you can do this on your own.

It's going to end up being cheaper for you in the long run even if they ding you with some fees on the way out. But, these programs they over promise, they under deliver while ruining your financial life.

Right. >> But, when you're scared and overwhelmed, their Instagram ad magically pops up to save you.

Yeah. So, I'm sorry you fell for it, but I'm glad you're getting out. Oh, yeah, I know. I'm definitely getting out and um

thank you for taking my call. Um, I hope nobody else falls for them. >> There's the warning from Catherine. We love that.

And it's a good reminder, Ken, just to talk about what these companies do. So, the way these companies work, these debt If you see debt relief, debt settlement, anything that promises like debt freedom without you actually doing the work, here's what they do. They tell you, "Hey, stop paying all of your creditors. Instead, send us those payments." What ends up happening is you default on the debts, it tanks your credit score, and then they try to negotiate a lump sum settlement, hopefully.

They can't guarantee that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. And the truth is you can do all that yourself without all of their crazy fees and sales tactics. And it's what you should do.

And try to stay current on your payments if you can, cuz tanking your credit is not going to help you at all financially. Mhm.

>> Avoid. Rachel is up next in Redding, California. Rachel, how can we help?

Hi there. Can you hear me okay? >> Yes, loud and clear.

Okay, good. Um my husband and I live up

in rural California, northern California, and um he has a blue-collar job, and we have four kids,

um eight and under, and we're just coming up on our 10-year anniversary.

Woo. Um we are on baby step um

four, well, I guess five. We haven't saved for our kids' college yet, but we're thinking about it. Um and we're just thinking about doing an anniversary trip, and I wanted your guys' feedback on I guess I'm feeling kind of guilty. I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I don't make a lot.

Um I've been DoorDashing a little bit, but I kind of wanted to see what you guys thought about an anniversary trip, like I feel guilty for what I'm thinking about saving. What What are you thinking about spending?

Sorry? What's the number? How much do you want to spend on this trip? Um we were thinking around 5 to 6,000. Okay. How long is this trip? Is it like a week or two?

Um yeah, we were thinking maybe 10 days to 2 weeks. Um Okay. Yeah.

>> I can tell you right now, uh 10 days to 2 weeks at 5 to 6,000 is not a, you

know, >> That's a deal. >> That's That's You're You're You're not going luxury, you know? You're You're being smart about it. You're making the most of that money. Am I right?

Yeah. Yeah, we'd be definitely staying at really cheap places and doing stuff.

>> stay at a Motel 6. Let's make this a

trip to remember, and not in the wrong ways. >> Well, yeah, let's get to that next, but let's at least take off the guilt.

There's no guilt for you guys saving up $5 to $6,000 to celebrate your 10th anniversary. It's fantastic. And there's no guilt in you being a stay-at-home mom and feeling like, "Well, because I don't contribute as much, I feel like I don't You deserve it as much as anybody." How long Have you already saved up that money, or are you in the process of it?

Um we just This is just a a plan we've had in the last couple weeks, so we're just thinking about saving and um trying to put a Is that going to stress you guys financially? In other words, where are you going to have to be really, really tight to be able to save that?

Um yes. Yeah. I don't have a problem with that, either. What does your husband make?

Um he makes about 4,500 a month. Um

and with my DoorDash, I've been making around 1,000 a month. Great. So, when are When do you want to book the trip?

When do you actually have to pay for it?

Uh fall sometime.

Okay. So, are you willing to continue the DoorDash and use part of his income to save up this five grand over the next five months?

Yeah, yeah, I think so, yeah. I think that's okay. >> If it's just your DoorDash money every month, sometime in the fall, you got some flexibility, you can cash flow this anniversary trip just from your work, your your part-time work. You shouldn't feel guilty. You should feel proud of yourself for that. Yeah. Are you setting this money aside in a separate savings account?

Uh yeah, that's that would be the plan, yeah. Good. That helps to earmark it, cuz if you just have it in checking, or you have it in your emergency fund, it feels like you're doing something bad when you take that out to use it for a vacation. So, instead, earmark it.

10-year anniversary vacation. And then when you put the money in, you know exactly what it's for. And then when it comes time to book the trip, or when you have the money, pull the trigger. I wonder Yeah. I wonder if you've got a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars worth of stuff around the house you could sell, too.

Yeah, true. >> that plan. I love that plan. You know why? We just add a little extra money to this anniversary trip and we didn't have to work as hard. We got rid of some crap we didn't need anyway. And then do your research. Splurge where it's worth it, cut back where you're like, we don't care about this over here, and you can work with a five thousand dollar budget easily.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside.

And we're going to go to Minneapolis where Ella is. Ella, how can we help you?

Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. This is awesome.

Um, anyway, I have a question. So, I'm following the baby steps.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to work right now. I'm on a a medical leave. I have to have surgery this next Wednesday. And I need to come up with four thousand

dollars before I have my surgery. And if

I was able to work, I'd be good.

But, right now, I'm just kind of at a loss. I have I've been marking things up. I'm going to have a garage sale and try to sell everything that I possibly can, but before Wednesday, I'm kind of kind of stuck. Is it due up front?

Yeah, they said that um it's to meet my

deductible, my out-of-pocket deductible.

And then and so I've been on the phone and trying to work with them um to see if you know I can get on a payment plan or anything and they're like well that would be like the last option I'm like well that might be your only option cuz I don't have it.

Is this at a hospital?

Yes, it is. Is your doctor aware of this?

Yes, he is. And what did he say

about going forward on this or rescheduling or how serious is a reschedule? What's what's going on? Give us the full picture.

Okay. So unfortunately this is my fourth surgery

in 3 years but hey I'm I'm a trooper

it's okay like I I get through it and So sorry. I go to work and it's okay. Thank you I appreciate it though.

Um and anyway Uh sorry. I um talked to my doctor about it and he told me he was like if anything he's like we're going to do the surgery you need to have it >> Right. and he's like just tell them you made a payment arrangement we're still going through it and then they can figure it out and I'm like okay.

>> Good. So I think that's what you have to hold that's that's our that's our sleep okay at night answer. Mhm. And then you do everything you can you know but have have you called the hospital billing department?

I have. Oh my gosh we're like best friends right now. >> What do they what do they say about financial assistance charity care that kind of stuff?

Yes I have submitted all of you know my

pay stubs and and everything to them they're going to try to review it to see if I meet the qualifications but I already make too much money and I told them >> And when's Is That's that's the thing, too. I'm I'm not sure. Today was the the last paycheck that I'm getting until hopefully my Minnesota paid leave comes into place. And it was only like 400

bucks because I've been on leave for the past 2 weeks. Was it unpaid?

>> So Yeah, the um so I was only able to work two two days this last pay period. Otherwise But

yeah, it's really frustrating. And like I said, I do follow the baby steps.

I've And unfortunately, like I'm in step two. But I'm happy I paid off >> I have 18,000 left and I've paid off 60.

Way to go. What's left in the 18?

>> off Um so what's left in the 18 is

some leftover surgery debt.

Um I have two small credit cards

and um two small personal loans. And I

Guys, I'm telling you I have I've brought my budget down. I know where all of my money goes thanks to you guys. Good. >> And I had my my $1,000 and you know, I can live very simply. It's just my body

hates me. Aw, bless your heart. >> Um but you have $1,000 to your name.

Nope, because I had to use that to to

pay um my rent and and everything. Oh,

and then on top of that, I have to move because the house that I'm renting in I

just found out that it's in foreclosure.

Oh my goodness. >> hasn't been Yeah, so It's like a country song. Yeah. >> it is.

It's It's really sad. I'm more of a I'm I'm more of a punk rocker, so I'm just like uh come I like you. Well, you know, there's always I I what is your You know what you need to do? You need to find one of those punk rock songs that you really love that's kind of got like the tough the tough times lyrics, but there's some bright side on it and that becomes your soundtrack, you know?

>> Oh, it is. Social Social Distortion, Reach for the Sky. That's my There it is. Social Distortion, Reach for the Sky.

And you know what?

You've been through a lot. Better days are ahead, right? Absolutely.

>> to get through this. Don't Do you follow the advice of your doctor? So, let's take that stress off the table and get yourself healthy and then get get back to work and keep walking the baby steps out and I'm telling you better days are ahead.

Thank you. And then document everything like a mad woman. I'm talking I mean, there should be an income-based discount if you're on medical leave. You should qualify for a significant reduction on this thing or a full write-off. And on top of that, bring proof of income loss.

Say, "Hey, listen. I made $400. Here's what I should have made and this is going to remain this way until I'm fully healed." And I think if this person is your best friend, if I'm your best friend at the office, I'm going to do everything I can to go, "Hey, your bill suddenly disappeared." Yeah. Oh, I like that. Oh, I see what you're saying.

>> crossed. >> Yeah, I mean, they can pull some strings over there. A human being has to deny or approve these things so >> little key. It's one little keystroke.

Mhm. I see what you're doing there, George. Yeah, it's not illegal. George with a little George with a little espionage. This is why these people exist. >> it. And so, just you need to utilize You need to know this stuff better than they do to where you go, "No, I actually read the fine print and here's what it says." You need to become an expert in healthcare cuz there's a lot of incompetent people in healthcare. Mhm.

Oh, I know that. I work in healthcare.

So, become the become the expert on your situation and when you are mar- when you have all of the options, all of the information, you can win this thing. And we are rooting for you to get through the surgery, to heal up, to get rid of these debts, get that emergency fund.

You have a bigger why than most people.

That's right. What is the prognosis on the other side of the surgery? Do you know?

Not 100% sure yet. So,

um yeah, I >> do you do you have a a good a sense of confidence that you're going to be able to get back to work relatively soon? Or is that completely up in the air as well?

Oh, I told them I go, "I'm going back to work on May 1st." I'm like, Look at you.

There's no stopping you. >> I'm like, I Oh, there isn't. Like, I work two jobs. I work two jobs. I have tons of side hustles. And I'm just like, "No, like Oh, Ella, listen. You know what? I love the advice George gave you.

And I hope they don't charge you rent this month if they're under foreclosure. I think that should give you a little freebie. What's the story there?

I feel like I'm not even going to pay them. And I'm just going to try to save and just move and put my stuff in

storage. And if I have to couch surf for a little while, it's okay. >> for you. >> They're the ones about to get sued and going through bankruptcy. So, I think they're going to have their hands full. Yeah, they got bigger fish to fry than you. And Ella, you inspired me just now. I want to tell you something. Like, I love your attitude given everything you're dealing with right now.

You're unstoppable. I love that you said, "I know I am." And you're going to get back going. And boy, are we cheering you on. We're in club Ella.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar Budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Hey George, have you heard about Ask Ramsey? Heard about it. >> Yeah? I use it daily.

>> Do you really? I ask I talk to it cuz nobody wants to talk to me, Ken. So, I go to Ask Ramsey and it's very conversational. >> do.

It wants to talk nerdy like I like to talk. >> What is Ask Ramsey? Some of you are wondering. It is the AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles.

And we're going to break down the most asked questions from this week. We had some questions around budgeting, college funds, investing, but the most asked question, George, was around paying off the mortgage. The main question is, should I prioritize paying off my mortgage or investing for more long-term growth? So, what what do you think Ask Ramsey said, George?

First, you got to be investing 15% of your gross household income into retirement. Anything beyond that is a baby step six items, so you can throw that money at the mortgage, but it's not a um it's not a this or that. It's a yes

and. Yes, you should be investing. Yes, you should pay off the mortgage. You don't need to do one or the other, um but you should not stop retirement investing to rush the mortgage.

That's the truth. A paid-for house gives you peace and margin. Once the house is paid off, then you can start investing even more than that 15% and increase it to your heart's delight for your wealth goals. So, Ask Ramsey can help you determine how much extra to throw at your mortgage each month, what your pay-off date would be.

It'll help you with all the nerdy stuff, do the calculations for you.

>> Nice. Let's go to Cassandra now in our backyard here, Nashville, Tennessee.

Cassandra, how can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> You bet.

What's going on? >> um so I am Well, I have $9,000 in um debt for my car, and it's very manageable, and it's in my monthly budget to take care of that, but I have

more than enough money to pay it off right now if I wanted to.

Um my question is,

if I get rid of that payment and it affects my credit score, um I'm looking

to put, you know, a down payment on the home in the future, will someone lend me

that money for a home if my credit mix

isn't good, if I don't have multiple lines of credit?

Got it. What other um accounts do you have open right now as far as debt?

Um I have a secured credit card, and I kind of use it as my budget for gas. I never spend more than 30% on it. Okay, so the car is the only debt?

Yes. How much do you have in savings?

22,500.

That's all the money to your name?

Um and I also have um a retirement account that counts. Okay, but as far as liquid money, 22 five, and if you paid off the car loan, what does that leave you with?

Um 9,000 less than that, so

Okay, we're talking like 13 grand or so is what you'll have left.

Yes. Well, the good news is you're not going to have to worry about purchasing a home anytime soon cuz you're going to have to still save up an emergency fund, then save up the down payment. So, this is a far away goal, right?

Yes, it is. Okay. And your credit score is not going to tank once you pay off your car. It might go down temporarily, but it's not going to go down to where you're not going to get a great rate on a mortgage.

Okay. Thank you. >> not worry about that. Now, if you stop making payments or miss payments, those things will negatively affect your credit score and it'll stay like that for a much longer period of time, but just paying off a debt is not going to go away. You're going to go from a 700 to a 650. Way to go, Cassandra. It's a good thing to pay off your debt. So, trying You're basically saying should I stay in debt on purpose so I can qualify for more debt at that point.

Yes. And so, truthfully, even if you cut up your credit card, and this is something I did, my credit score eventually disappeared. I became credit, you know, my credit score was indeterminable, and then I went through a process called manual underwriting. I submitted just a few more documents, a real human being looks at the documents and says, "Yep, we can give him a loan." It's that It was that simple.

>> Okay.

If you have a good down payment, you'll have no debt, so you'll be a very strong candidate, and your income strong. All of those are much bigger factors than just a credit score.

Okay, yes sir. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the call. Yeah, really good. Cameron is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Cameron, how can we help today?

Hi, so I'm currently a student physical therapist about to get licensed in around late October. Um my biggest thing

is I'm about $120,000 in debt by the time I get licensed and I'm actually making $80 to $85,000 out of school and I have

10K to my save in my savings and I was

just curious, you know, I have that my $1,000 of course that is my base foundation of savings, but what else do I just throw everything else towards this snowball method and and kind of what's the way to to go about things?

When is your last payment for education?

Oh, what what was that? When is your last payment due for education? Are you already there?

Um no. No, and so it'll technically be,

I believe, September.

Okay. >> Of this year. Cuz my goal would be to avoid going into any more debt Mhm. before graduation. And so that's kind of we're trying to just stop the bleeding at this point. And so I would hang on to that money to use it for the following semester for tuition, textbooks, etc.

Yeah. Yeah. So limit the damage and then once you graduate

and you have your income, now let's start using the baby steps, the debt snowball method to start attacking these student loans from small Yes, yeah, all separate loans. Some some federal, some subsidized and subsidized stuff, yeah. Awesome. Leave it that way.

Don't do any kind of debt consolidation lumping it into one giant loan. It's going to be so much easier to pay it off when you can attack the little one with a vengeance. Free up that payment, apply it to the next one. That's the debt snowball and I I have good faith and confidence that you'll be able to pay off the 120K.

Now, making 80, it's going to take a little while, but hopefully you can get your income up, maybe work overtime, and really go hard at this thing for 2 or 3 years and knock it out fast. >> Yeah. And that is an absolute huge reason why you don't want to add any more to this. Cuz coming out of this thing, this is what I can't stand, and I I I this is why I don't like the student loan program for so many people, you know, they come out and they're excited, they've got the great job, and then it's this mountain they have to climb.

And they can, and we've seen and we've helped a lot of people do it. But it's it's just >> part is, Ken, the financial aid. When I walked in the financial aid office and you get the the package from FAFSA, you're like, "Wow, what a gift.

It's true. It's true. It'll It'll heal a little faster.

Uh let's go to Jacob real quick here in Nashville. Jacob, how can we help?

Hey, I'm trying to determine make sure I'm doing all the right things to be able to retire as early as 50 very comfortably.

How old are you now? I'm I'm 29 right now.

Okay, we got a little ways to go. How much you got saved for retirement?

So, I was fortunate enough that my my

father, my grandparents, my great-grandparents put together a uniform transfer to minor account when I was very young.

I'm not entirely sure what the beginning balance was. I want to say it was close to $50,000. What is it now? I I

It is now up to $490,000.

Whoa! And >> And about about 75,000

of that is my IRA in a Vanguard account.

So, 490 total is your sort of nest egg you've built so far.

Yeah, well, that's just associated with Vanguard. So, I also have about 38,000 in a 401k, about 12,000 in a 403. So,

what's the total nest egg? Do we have 550? We're just crushed for time, so I'm trying to get right to it. >> Yeah, sure. 550, how much will you contribute monthly?

Going forward for the next 21 years.

>> sure. So, my only contribution is maxing out the Roth maxing out the IRA. So, about 600 something bucks a month.

>> Well, let's just say at 50, you'll likely have about $5 million.

Now, that's without accounting for inflation and buying power, but 5 million you tell me, can you live off 5 million at 50 for the rest of your life?

I think so. I think you'll be work optional, and my guess is you actually go do something that really matters to you. If he has George Camel's budget, he'll be living like a king. Living large.

Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back, so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

you with the heart of a teacher. But, they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find a full-time tax adviser who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

The right insurance should act as a shield around you and your loved ones and your wallet. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan. Go to ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

That's ramseysolutions.com/checkup and you can do a coverage checkup. And boy does George love a coverage checkup. I like playing defense. I'm telling you. With especially with your wealth. I get it.

Chris is up in Los Angeles, California.

Chris, how can we help today?

Hey guys, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Such an honor.

Well, we're honored to talk to you. What's going on?

Hey, uh so real quick, I'm I'm 28 years

old and um I'm currently on baby step two. Um I have $16,000 in credit card debt left. Um and I just got an opportunity

from my parents to buy one of their property that they have for about 20 years now. With two tenants with

two tenants that are in right now. And um the house is valued at about $700,000, but they're going to be selling it to me for for $350,000 for

what they bought it for years ago.

I do I'm I'm like not too sure what I should do. I don't know if I should purchase the house or just keep going.

Um trying to clear my debt or I I'm kind

of lost to be honest with you.

Do you want the fun answer or the real answer?

I'll I'll the real answer, to be honest with you.

Okay, the real answer is you've no business taking on that mortgage right now and being an investment property guru. >> Yeah. Um I mean, for a lot of reasons, I don't Whenever I hear the word I have an opportunity and then it involves going to a bunch of debt when you already have a bunch of debt, it tells me it's not an opportunity. It's actually a burden disguised as an opportunity.

>> So, that's my fear. Is you you take on this It's such a good deal. Oh my gosh.

I mean, why not just inherit it from them later on down the road?

Exactly. Yeah, that's what I kind of figured. >> are they trying to get out if this is such a great opportunity?

Yeah, and and you're right. You're right, George. I I'm not too sure why, but it makes sense.

It makes sense. And by the way, and George is right. The financial is a no-go. But, you know what else is on the other side of this, too, besides being a bad financial decision? You're going to end up resenting them.

Because once you start feeling the stress of all this, you're going to go, "They talked me into this, and now it's going to affect your relationship with your parents." So, this is a no-go financially and relationally.

Absolutely. No, definitely. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thanks for calling. I've heard I've heard it all. I mean, this is people have already been telling me, "I don't know. If you don't take it on, it's going to be a stupid decision." But, Well, the question is you got to reframe it. It's The question is not is this a good deal. The question is, can I actually handle this right now without it crushing me?

Right. >> good deal at the wrong time is a bad deal.

Yeah. And so, I would just say, "You know what? I I would have loved to, but I'm I've got some financial goals right now. I'm not in a place to be buying investment property." Exactly. >> But, I love you, guys. Good luck with the sale.

Yeah, thank you, Chris. Uh your instincts are right. Thanks for the call. Bridget is up next in Anchorage, Alaska. Bridget, how can we help?

Hi. Um so, my husband and I are in Baby Step 4, but we're kind of in a unique situation. So, I have a normal 9-5 corporate job and my husband owns his own fishing business that's seasonal.

Um we're to the point that we can invest 15% of our income while I'm working, but we're also about to have our second child and um so I'm hoping I can quit my job and be a stay-at-home mom.

Um but if we did that, we wouldn't be able to afford to invest 15% of our income. So, what should we do? Like should I

continue working cuz with his schedule, he's gone all summer for 5 to 6 months of the year. So, child care gets really complicated and then he's our child care in the winter. So, I'm we're kind of at a loss as to how we should move forward.

>> So, I make about 75. And what is he making from this business per year on average? So, it varies. He's about 5

years into it and it has slowly grown.

Um so, I think his highest year was he made over $100,000 just off of his business. Right. >> this last year it was closer to like 45, 50.

So, he has some other income some other like side jobs and things that he does.

Um but those are it's also seasonal.

Mhm. Well, the math of the situation is you can't afford to stay home if it means you can't build wealth for the future. And we have variable income in the business which adds a whole 'nother layer of stress to your family. So, I want >> Yeah. to speak into how we can turn this thing from a variable part-time deal into more stable full-time income. Yeah,

I mean well, I wish I had him on the phone. How well do you know about his business?

Oh, I know lots. Okay, well, what do you think is uh the opportunity? Do you think that how would you describe it in what stage?

Is it infant stage or we toddler stage or we teen like just it's current?

>> is >> it's it's seasonal. So, he's a hunting he's a hunting and fishing guide, right?

So, there's only that certain season that he can be doing that.

>> Right. Um especially in Alaska. And so,

um he's kind of limited time-wise. So,

he can sort like if he gets more guides and things like that, he could potentially be selling more trips, which he's working on. Um and so, like this

year he's going to be making a lot more, which is great. And like we already have for our emergency fund, we did a full year because of his variable income. We wanted to make sure that we have enough set aside that we would be very comfortable. So, like I guess potentially he could work in more in the wintertime and just kind of take on some other jobs.

>> But >> to. So, what businesses thrive in Alaska in the wintertime that are adjacent to what he's doing now? That's right.

>> That would be my homework. >> That would be ideal.

But what The reason I asked that is it emphasis is that he's the only guy right now. The business is all completely on his shoulders. He's the only guide. Correct? So, he has a couple

others. It just depends on how big the trips are, but he doesn't have anybody else that's full-time with him. So, he hires a few different contractors for the summer. That's fine cuz it's seasonal. So, that's what I was getting at cuz that's the only way to to expand on a seasonal business, right? Exactly.

>> Is he's got to reproduce himself. And so, I'm guessing he's he's close to teenage age, right? He's not He's not an infant. He's already moved on to hiring other people, so that's good. So, so that lets me know where our where our opportunity for growth is and it's more trips, more guides. So, he's got to work on that. And that takes a little It takes a little bit of time to grow that.

So, I think what's enormous is like what George said is what's something he can do that's in that space? And I'm using the word space very generally here, but it's in in old hunting fishing world.

>> Recreational. Yeah, well, just hunting and fishing and all that. That That's If he's in that space and he can make good money um and they and it kind of just dovetails in some way, creates relationships in some way, or they're they're willing to go, "We know we got you from this time this time and then when we get to the summertime, you're off and doing your thing." You just got to increase your income. He just cannot afford to just be seasonal right now.

You guys can't. You need more money. >> So, it's not a no. I would just make it a it's a not now.

And if we can prove that after 2 years in a row this business has profited him, he took home over $100,000, boom.

That's right. >> And that tells me we're going to be just fine. If you never work again, he can sustain this thing. So, that's where I would just want some proof cuz 45 If you If it's another 45 year and you stay home, that's going to be tight.

>> Mhm. Yeah, for sure.

>> One other thought on this bridge is to take back to your hubs on this. I I think he's got to treat the seasonal business like a bonus, you know? >> Yeah. Like in the corporate world, they you know, peop- corporations they pay bonuses, right? Kind of the like a year-end bonus. And I think he's got to treat that seasonal job as that's my

bonus. We're living off of what, you know, I'm doing in this other role and then that's our big lump sum of money.

And I think if we can begin to think that way, that's going to pay off for you guys and then that's going to get you in a position where eventually, you know, you can do that. So, I just a little thought there, but I do think it's important to frame it that way, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. And that's where you get ahead big time. You know what I mean?

So, we're living off of his regular job, the seasonal gig until it's a full-time it can fully fund what it needs to. It is our big bonus job. So, thanks for the call. That's really fun. You know,

you and I should go on a on a hunting fishing trip in Alaska. We're the >> I'd make it?

I think you could make it. know >> my wife would allow me to. I don't know that she'd think I'd come back alive.

>> I think our wives would let us and I think it would be just rich and funny just for social media alone to see you and I attempting to go on some Alaska type trip. >> If you just gave me the reel ready to go, I could probably do it.

>> Yeah. Then help me reel the fish back.

>> think would happen is you and I would be fly fishing and you would accidentally snag my ear. That's a real possibility.

Yeah.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our verse of the day comes from Proverbs 19:23. The fear of the Lord leads to life, then one rests content, untouched

by trouble. Our quote of the day from Scotty Pippen, a Gucci wallet and a Target wallet hold the same amount of money. A $10 million house and a $100,000 house host the same loneliness. A Ford will also drive you as far as a Bentley.

They're right. Thanks, Scotty. >> Scotty dropping dimes over here, as the kids like to say. >> Do they say that still? >> I don't think anybody says that. I'm getting message from the booth. I'm getting a Ben is saying no, no one says that. >> Your kids are at home cringing right now going, "Dad." >> afraid I've said something I don't even intend to say. What is Do we know what dropping dimes is? >> I don't I don't think it's a bad thing.

>> I don't think it is. >> Yeah, you're not going to get in trouble. Okay.

Kelly, the producer has never heard >> Our resident Gen Z said, "No." It's She's a millennial, George.

>> it back. >> You're a millennial. She just She plays very young and, you know, fun compared to me who's an old soul curmudgeon.

Yeah. Yeah, by the way, she does have a great hat on today, the Masters hat.

>> There we go. Fantastic. Uh there she is, everybody. Look at that. All you need is a pimento cheese sandwich in your hand.

Uh let's go to Jim in Lansing, Michigan.

Jim, how can we help?

Hi, Jim. Hey there. So, um Yeah. So, uh I just had a quick question as to how to talk to my dad about credit

cards in our business. So, um I started a business with my father uh about a year ago and I personally I

don't do debt. I don't do credit card. I don't do any of that. It's all scary.

Now, he loves credit cards. He doesn't have a lot of debt um in you know, his

personal life, but he just loves credit cards. He has them all over the place.

And I voiced when he wanted to get one for the business, I voiced my concern then, but I know better than to argue with my father. And we ended up getting a business credit card. And I just figured, you know, I would take an initiative to make sure that nothing bad happens with that. Now, this past month, something bad did happen with that.

We tried to pay it off and the bank marked it as fraudulent. And so, then we got late fees and interest on that credit card and that terrifies me.

I don't know how to I don't know how to have that discussion.

Well, this is a a generational money fight. He's been living this way for so long. You're not going to change his mind as the young whippersnapper.

I know that. I know that. Every Every time that I talk to him >> Yes. Every time that I talk to him though about the credit cards, he he's uh excuses, you know, "I've been doing this longer than you've been alive. I've never been charged interest." But now he has been and I don't Well, what he really said is "I don't respect your opinion in this business." That's right.

And which means he's not going to accept your opinion.

Yeah.

So now you got a a real problem, don't you?

Oh, yeah. So >> businessman, so I don't like the idea of that, but I just Well, but are you long-term in this business? Is have you already made a decision or is this just something early on you're just kind of "I'll do the family business for a while till I figure out what I want to do with my life." What what's your status? >> No, this is this is uh this is long-term for me, but >> Okay. How old is he?

Uh like 50.

Okay. So this is a long ways away from like you inheriting the business on your own. This could be another 25 years of this. And it's not going to be the last fight you guys have. So just know that going into business with family can be a fun idea and a harsh reality.

>> Mhm. So >> Yeah. the the conversation is "Dad, I respect how you built things.

I want to build this as well. I want to feel like an equal partner. Can we try running this thing lean, debt-free, and see how it goes?

And when and if we run into a situation where it's like "Dang it, we need the credit card." I will concede.

And we'll have that conversation.

So give him a trial instead of a debate, and that way he'll put his defenses down. Does he like a challenge?

I Yeah, I could give that a shot. 90 days.

Maybe. I don't know.

Yeah. And I don't I don't I don't mind George's approach. He might be a stubborn horse. I don't know. He might be. You got nothing to lose with George's approach.

I have a high sense here that this is

not going to go the way you want it to go. And he's not going to change. So that means You do too. Okay. And so I like

George's approach, but you need to reconcile the fact that this is the business I want to be in. This is my long-term play. And I philosophically

disagree with my dad on debt.

And the truth is you guys did not align on values for this business before you started the partnership.

Mhm. You didn't set the ground rules or the boundaries and said, "Hey, one value I have is we're going to run this business completely debt-free because it lowers our risk, lowers our stress, and increases our chances this thing survives." That's really at the heart of what you're doing.

Yeah, we don't have any loans or anything on the business. It's just that credit card and we had points, but now we don't

points. Yeah. That's where those That's where those late fees will go.

Man. I I just think you you talk to dad, you keep chirping about it if you want to, always respectful.

Make the challenge that George gave you.

I'm all for that. But I'm also a realist to know that if he just isn't going to change his mind, you aren't going to change it for him.

And so I would reconcile that and go,

"I'm going to do things different when I'm in charge. Until then, I'm going to focus on what I can control or or you know, what I do agree with and just learn how to deal with that." It's just a tough situation. I don't want you to have this constant tension between your dad and you over this issue. Cuz it seems like it's a healthy business otherwise.

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Tough thing, man. It's It's tough. But hey, you're not going to leave the business over it. So then you got to make peace with it and try to over time get him on your side. But again, it's an old dog. New tricks are hard. I know. Trust me, George is always trying to teach me new tricks. Aubrey's up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. You see what I did there?

Well, I would just think I just helped Ken download like an airline app for the first time and it felt like helping my grandpa. He's really straight, he had his readers on and everything. It was fantastic. That's what it reminded me of. It's true. It was at a Starbucks in Charlotte. That was fun. Aubrey, how can we help you today?

Hey, how are y'all? Good. What's going on?

So, look, I'm just curious.

Me and my wife we've been married now going on 2 years.

We've completely gotten out of all of our car debt, you know, everything else

like that. So, we're just left with the house now. And I'm just curious. She would like to go on she likes to travel.

She was a travel nurse when we got married and she wants to travel to Italy and I'm wondering if we can kind of not necessarily put a pause on the house, but maybe not pay as much extra on the house to uh be able to take fun trips.

How much is the trip going to be?

The trip's probably going to end up being around 4,000 if I had to guess.

And you have no debt?

No no debt besides the house. No, sir.

So, this is you're just simply saying we would slow down on our aggressive paying off of the house to be able to just sock $4,000 away fairly quickly to take a trip to Italy.

Yes, sir. I don't know. Why is that a problem? I think it's great. You live your life, man. I mean, baby steps four through six, I mean, really through seven is you're you're taking the you're taking the you know, foot off the pedal here and go we don't need to be gazelle intense anymore. We just need to be intentional. So, as long as you're saving up, you're paying cash for this trip, I mean, it's not going to delay your mortgage payoff by a year.

We're talking a couple months at most, right? >> how you're going to do a trip to Italy for 4,000 is what's throwing me off. That's the most impressive part. I was like, what are you doing? Are you staying in a box? Are you guys doing hostels?

No, it's a it's a family trip, so it's kind of split split cost between everybody. >> Oh, that's even better. Like lodging is split, so that makes it a little cheaper. Got it. I wish I knew some Italian right now. I would throw it out there as an encouragement to say do this, live a little, you know? George, you know any Italian? Bienvenida?

That might be Spanish. I've no clue. I I think I failed that class. Kelly, help us out. What is happening? She did Duolingo, right? Ciao. Ciao. That's not

a good >> That's not what this needs though, but thank you. She did help us out.

>> We'll see you in Italy, Aubrey. >> Right, that works. Okay, great. Yeah.

Aubrey, I mean, listen, I you don't need permission on this from anybody. You're not doing anything wrong by doing this. It's okay to slow down your self-imposed goal. The key is you're being intentional. You're going to pay it off early, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, we we definitely want to It's a case It's a little bit daunting still having still having 200,000 left on it. >> really quick question. Is one of you, you or your wife, actually leaning towards not doing this?

Going on the trip? >> Yeah. No, we're we're both I would say we're both leaning forward towards it. I'm more I I'm more of on the terms of paying stuff off as quick as possible.

>> Lean hard, man. Lean into that Leaning Tower of Pisa. There it is.

Full circle. >> You worked really hard on that. I like I like Kelly's ciao better. But uh hey, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 240. When Money Gets Complicated, Clarity and Wisdom Matter Most | January 30, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Campbell, taking your calls, going to the phone lines where we have Heather in Indianapolis, Indiana. Heather, what's up? >> Hi. How are you guys >> doing? Good. How can we help?

>> Um, long story short, um, I got married

in August and once we combined some finances, I found out that my husband had a lot of gambling debt.

>> Um, I had a baby in October and my

husband tore his Achilles in May. So,

he's currently not working and I just went back to work from having my baby.

Um, basically I found out in December that he's got 150k in debt. Most of it

is from gambling and he didn't think he was going to be alive uh to face the consequences that led up to this debt unfortunately. But he met me and we got married and had a baby and things have changed. >> Wow. So you you quite literally saved his life. >> Correct. Yeah. We kind of both saved each other and you know that's why I fell in love with him I guess.

>> Wow. So, did you know about this this gambling issue before you got married?

>> Uh, I knew he gambled, right? Like when we won 25,000 in Vegas, it's great.

>> But when he, you know, lost 16,000 in one day, it's not. So, I knew about it.

I just didn't know how bad it was until after the fact, right? I started asking more questions once I knew.

>> Yeah. How long of a process was this that he went into all this debt before you were married and during? No, it

stopped as soon as we got together. But, uh, he gambled like seven years, maybe.

>> So, over the course of seven years, it's accumulated 150,000.

>> Correct. Uh, he's got >> two payday loans. Uh, he's got some 401k

and then just whatever on the app you can like take money. I'm not a big gambler. So, >> is he still current? Is he currently because you just said he's not accumulated since you got married.

So, he has he hasn't continued to gamble since we got married, but he hasn't paid any of his debt. >> Are you sure that he's not? How do you know? >> If he's stuck at home all day since May, and he hasn't opened a gambling app or went to a website, I would be shocked if he's not going to Gamblers Anonymous.

>> Well, we did get into therapy and did some couples uh counseling, but I control all the finances. So, I mean, unless he's doing something behind my back and taking out additional loans, there's nothing to my knowledge.

>> I would be pulling his credit report to get a full picture and freeze his credit. Have you done that?

>> I I haven't his credit, but I did pull up and found out like all the creditors that he has. >> So, he was withholding this information.

This wasn't just like, well, he let me know. You found this out.

>> Correct. It kind of got like uh breadcrumbmed along, right? And then once I knew my spot, I was like, what's happening? Where's all your money going?

What's how do we get in this situation?

>> Okay. >> Then he was open and honest, right?

That's how I got help and took control.

>> Okay. So, you guys have It sounds like you've turned the the the corner. This is no longer happening. You've got control of the money. You've done all the the due diligence there. So, how can we help today? Is it how do I pay this off? Is that just the biggest question?

>> Yeah. It says, I want to know how we approach a judgment this large. Is the snowball method realistic in this situation? Should we consider bankruptcy

or are there other options?

>> Is this the only debt of all the 150?

>> Yeah. 153. Um the house is in my name.

The cars are in my name. I don't really I only have like 4,000 maybe credit card debt. It's all his debt.

>> Okay. The cars are paid off.

>> No. >> Okay. So, tell the car all the debt.

Um, I owe 12 um7,000 on my house.

Probably have about 4,000 left on my car to pay. He might have 11,000 left in his

truck to pay. >> Okay. >> We got a $53,000 judgment on the one creditor, 19,000

on the other one, and then he took all of his 401k out.

>> Okay. Okay. So, what's you guys' income

is I mean, is I guess he's not working yet. Will he go back to work? Tell me more about that.

>> So, we tore his Achilles and uh he's currently healing. I hope and pray he can go back to work. Uh he's got a physical job uh at UPS. So, he does have

a good job and makes good money, but right now he's not working. Only I am.

And I make $68,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what did he make when he was working?

Uh each year is a little different depending on overtime, but at least six figures if he's not like 95 to 110

depending on the bonuses and how many hours we get. >> Is there any disability income coming in or workers comp, anything like that?

>> He was on workman's comp, but they cut him off. They only gave him 6 months and

then they stopped. So, we're it's all in

limbo right now. We're waiting for his IME and what to do.

>> Yeah. Is he able to to walk on it? What is his current status?

>> He's in physical therapy. So, he just got into a shoe in December and uh like

he can't really do a lot of steps. He cannot drive like going from the gas pedal to the brake.

>> So, he still has some healing to do and it's kind of all on me.

>> Yeah. Well, that's that's really stopping you guys from being able to crush through this debt. Right now you're just in survival mode until we get his income back in place. Is there anything else he can do that isn't physical to bring in some income?

>> No. Like he can't walk or drive. So like I don't know. >> I'm saying any other job. If he can't work right now, he needs to do something even if it's from home. Can he do customer service? >> Right. His mind is not broken. His Achilles is broken.

>> Correct. Um but he's watching the baby.

So then we would have to figure out child care right now. when I just picked up a second job. >> Is there any family around that could help with that? Do you have a local church? Is there anybody that you can reach out to? Even if it's part-time,

right? Cuz the baby sleeps at night. So, even if he's doing some sort of night customer service, right?

>> Yeah. Like, we can look into that. But with workman's comp, it would definitely like I don't want to commit fraud on that. >> He's not getting stopped.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I don't know how any of this works. I've never been in a situation like that before. >> So, here's what I want. I want you to be open to solutions because uh I think

that you're kind of camped out on we we'll just file bankruptcy, but I want you to be open to the solutions that George and I give. And I just want to be upfront in saying they're going to all suck. Like none of them are going to be fun and none of them are going to be things that you want to do with your time. They're going to be things that feel like impositions because they are.

They're going to be very uncomfortable. It's going to require him to do jobs and work that he doesn't want to do at times that he doesn't want to do it, like at night when most of us are watching Netflix. It's going to cause you to be doing things that are uncomfortable, like calling workman's comp, whoever that is, and figuring out what does it mean? Are we getting any more money?

Will there be any uh repercussions if we go ahead and work since the payment stopped? Right? These are all the things that you guys are going to have to do.

And the challenge for you beyond the finance of this um Heather is going to be not feeling resentful towards him for having piled up all this debt and now you're having to sort through it. You're having to have this discomfort in your lives because of it. I would not file bankruptcy, you know, just yet, George.

I I would work through this. You're going to have a timeline on your horizon. But he hurt his Achilles. He's not He didn't have heart surgery.

So, he's going to recover. He's going to go back to work. It's just really hard right now. >> Correct.

And >> I'm sorry I had to get you off for the clock, but I I I really I really really want you to understand that this is something you can work through. I would do the debt snowball, which is what you asked. Smallest to largest, minimum payments.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go. We've got Maggie who's in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Maggie.

>> Um, hi. Yes. I'm trying to find out if the way my husband is treating me financially is considered abusive or is it if it's acceptable and what I should do. >> Um boy, tell us more.

>> Um I'm in my mid4s. Um so is he and we

have six kids and I have been financially dependent on him for 20 years. Well, more than that our entire marriage. >> Um I don't work and I've never worked.

um last year he he artificially reduced

the amount of money in our family income um so that it was below how much we needed to have just sufficient funds. And so over the course of the year, we basically blew through all of the extra savings that were in that account. And then um towards the

end of the year, there were some medical problems with our family and we really tipped the budget over the top. Um, we did not go into debt. Um, because he's

putting aside money somewhere else.

Also, >> where do you know?

>> He's putting it into savings accounts. I used to be able to see them, but I can't see them anymore because he hid them.

Um, he he like I don't

>> because I'm dependent and I'm not really that into the finances stuff. Like I I could see them through a budgeting app, but now I can't >> and question. Yes. And he's doing this to punish you?

>> Yes. So, he sent me a text saying that since I wasn't ready to talk to him, he just went ahead and made decisions himself. And so, he cut me off from the family credit card, which was in his name, right? It was a card for him.

substantially and that he told me to use

a credit card that two months before. or then he had asked me to open in my own name and I didn't like I didn't know

that that was going to be a problem but now he wants me to use that and obviously that makes me financially responsible but he said he was he threatened to um to ruin my credit and

not to um pay anything that went over.

So now I feel really nervous to use that credit card at all because I I'm not the only one drawing from this account. Like he draws from the account and >> and he so he's controlling what amount is even in the account for you to spend on the family.

>> Yes. >> So can you use a debit card attached to that bank account? >> I don't yet have a debit card, but if that's a good option, then I could go back. >> So your name isn't even on the bank account? >> It is. My name is on the bank account.

>> So you should be able to get access to a card tied to that account. you can go down to the bank and ask for one.

>> Okay, >> I would do that today. And that way you don't need to use this credit card. You don't need to even have the chance of racking up any debt. And then it becomes an issue of, hey, we don't have enough to cover the bills and I don't even know what we need to cover because you have access to everything and won't let me even see it. And so you guys have some deep marriage issues and the financial part is just a symptom. >> Yeah, this is for me

it's it's a major problem. Uh, for me

this has nothing to do with finances. I mean, obviously what George said is important, just for the here and now.

But this guy is 100% controlling, and that's 100% a financially abusive situation. So, tell me, I guarantee you

this is not the only place that he's asserting control, guaranteed.

>> Um, well, I've recently been walking out of that with a therapist because I've just started to assert my own autonomy.

>> Okay. And what does that mean?

Um, I I stop presenting things to him as a can I do this or whatever and just

doing what I need to do. Like I'm not doing anything stupid. I'm running a house and >> what does that work?

>> Um, well, sort of. He's not happy about

it. >> Uhhuh. >> But yeah, he's not like the only escalation is him I don't know. I guess you could call it like berating or that kind of thing. not um he's not like physical or anything, but >> And you're okay with that?

>> Well, I I do believe that he will get better. Um >> what makes you believe that?

>> The Lord told me.

>> How long have you been married?

>> Over 20 years.

>> And how how long has he been asserting this berating behavior?

>> Um since before we got married, but I was also a part of that. >> Can I ask you a question? I really like that. Can I ask you just a You went there, so I'm going to go there with you. Do you think that you have to be in the house for him to get better or do you think you could be somewhere safe and he could get better?

>> Um, >> you think he do you think you have to be there for him to berate you >> or do you think that you could be somewhere safe him not bate you and get better? So, that's kind of like what caused this whole thing is that I I basically refused to sit there and listen to him bury me and I told him that I wanted to have conversations by email.

Um, so that's why he said that I wasn't talking to him. >> Understood. But you're still living in the house now. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And most of the days are peaceful. It's just Yeah, he has some growing to do for sure. >> Understood. Okay. Um,

well, >> I have one other question about money.

>> Um, he I we got Christmas gifts that

were like a check. I got one in my name, he got one in his name. And um I

mentioned putting mine in my own private account. He didn't like that. He said that that needed a lot more conversation. So, I was really wanting to know if it's wise or foolish of me to put this large cash sum into >> At this point, you're protecting yourself because I don't know if this marriage is going to survive. And so, at this point, you have to then go, I need to create my own bubble over here because this person isn't safe.

>> Yeah, I would 100% say that.

>> Okay. >> So, that is actually wise to do in this moment. And I know God told you, but it doesn't mean that this marriage survives. Sometimes he he maybe it takes

this marriage not working for him to get better. I don't know. I hope this marriage survives, but I'm also not I'm not a betting man, but I'm betting he's not going to change tomorrow and just go, "Well, I had a revelation. I've decided to give you full access to the accounts and be transparent for the rest of my life." >> Right? >> I'm also thinking about your safety and security. You're just not in a financially safe or secure environment.

Therefore, your kids are not either. So, there's part of me that is I'm I'm way

more concerned with that obviously you called this show than I am with um his

comfort at this point at all cuz there's kids involved and if you can't have if you can't have access if you're home taking care of the kids but you're not allowed access to money that it takes to do such work then what are we even what are we doing here >> right >> so I'm concerned about that I'm with George >> I have a concern there's there's also something more nefarious happening, some financial infidelity on his part of why he's hiding this.

And so that is also something to consider here. And so I would demand transparency. I would demand that you have equal access to the money and that you have an equal vote in this marriage.

>> Yeah. >> And if that doesn't happen, then you guys need to go to counseling. And if he's unwilling to go to counseling, you go alone and then you'll have to make your own decisions on whether this is safe and healthy. >> Does he go to counseling or is he willing to go?

>> Um, we've we've tried in the past, but um yeah, he he left it and didn't want to do it anymore. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. Maggie, >> do you think then that it's wrong if um if he made the decision unilaterally not to put his entire income into the account?

>> Yeah, I think that's wrong.

She has full access and transparency into everything that we do. There are no hidden accounts. There's no mine and hers. She sees the budget. I see the budget. She can check the savings account at any moment. That is a healthy marriage. And any other picture is going to lead to unhealthy behaviors and an unhealthy marriage. And so, we can't continue on this way and pretend like it's all going to work out.

>> Yeah. >> There has to be a come to Jesus moment. And that means him going to counseling as a lastditch effort to go, hey, if this is going to work, you're coming with me and we're going to figure this out. >> Yeah. I think Maggie, for from where you sit, you called about a financial issue, but you know, George and I both know money touches everything. And it's never just compartmentalized. It's never just money. These these characteristics float into all the other areas of our life.

And I know based on what you said, what you're experiencing is not just happening with the bank account. There's a control issue here. and the fact that this other person is not interested in bettering themselves, whether it be through counseling or through changes of behavior, that's that's a big red flag.

And I know you've devoted 20 years to this thing, but man oh man, please please please keep yourself and your kids safe and do what you need to do to do that.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

We've got Lily who's in New York City, New York. What's up, Lily?

>> Hi. Um, to reference Dave, are you better than you deserve? I think so. How

about you?

>> Um I hope so. Um so I

um I have student loans myself. I'm in

baby step two. I have a $1,000 emergency saving fund. And then my dad and mom

collectively have about $150,000

of parent plus loans um in my name or

not in my name. They're legally theirs, but they took them out for me to go to college. And as George would say, it's kind of like a spit shake agreement that I'd pay them back. That was about >> um 10 years ago. So the expectation is that I pay for them. Um but and and they

recently changed it, changed the payment so that I am technically able to afford it. Um, but that would almost cut what

I'm paying my loans off in half and drastically increase the amount of time that it takes for me to pay my loans back. And also, they're making they've

chronically made poor financial decisions. And I don't want to be enabling them. Like, for example, they just bought a car that's going to cost them $60,000 by the time they pay it back. So, I I don't want to make a lot

of sacrifices in my life if they're not willing to change their lifestyle and these loans are legally in their name.

>> Are are you when you pay it, are you logging on and making the payment yourself or are you giving them the money? >> I'm logging on. I'm able to log on and um pay the money myself from my bank account. >> Okay. help me understand uh help me understand the last part of your argument which is the agreement was yeah you pay these things off you know that you're not arguing that point if you pay off the 150 what's the what's

the problem with that what's that got to do with with them and their lifestyle basically >> um because so right now if if I were to not pay the

loans at all like it wouldn't no one's going to come after me are legally in in my parents' names. >> Right. But you did agree to pay them back.

>> Yeah. Um but so I just my thought was if

I am like more find like worry about

myself first and focus on paying off my

things first and then helping them.

>> But you did well you're not helping them. Hold up. You're not helping them.

You told us that 10 years ago it was from the beginning that it was we'll take these loans, you'll pay them back.

They were not. It wasn't a bait and switch. You knew that going in. So you

at that point, you signing up for these loans is no different from you signing up for a credit card or a car note in my mind because you agreed.

>> Okay. >> Morally and relationally, legally, you're right. It's in their name. This is just as much their problem. If you decide to not pay, it's on them.

But at this point, the relationship is soured because you're not, you know, Thanksgiving looks different now when they're like, you're looking at their car in the driveway going, "You shouldn't have bought that. You could have paid off my a bunch of my student loans with that kind of money." And they're looking at you going, "Homegirl took out 200 grand in loans and isn't paying back after she said she would."

>> Right. Okay. What is your degree in?

>> Um, mechanical engineering.

>> Great. >> I make um 91,500

a year. Great. And how much debt do you have in your >> uh I have just under 20,000?

>> That's your all student loans?

>> Um 13,000 are in are federal loans and

then the other 7,000 is a private loan.

>> Okay. >> And that's it. No other debt to your name? >> No other debt. I paid off all my credit cards and I'm not going to use credit cards today. >> And no car loan?

>> No, I own my car. >> Great. >> Okay. So, the the the parent plus loans, I'm assuming those are also broken up into probably at least four by semester, right?

>> Um I actually there's three, but yeah.

>> Okay. So, what I would do is I take all all the loans, all all the individual loans, the three parent plus loans, the federal loans, however they're broken up, and the the the private loan, however it's broken up, and I would debt snowball it smallest to largest, minimum payments, and knock out the smallest one first, and put these $150,000 parent

plus loans right in there, wherever they fall, smallest to largest, and just knock it out. This has gone on for 10 years, aren't you, >> the longer you let this hang, those parent plus loans have a higher interest rate >> and so the longer you wait on this that it's going to balloon to 175,000 if we just fight over this for the next few years.

>> So, um, okay. So, the the debt the debt

snowball is you make minimum payments.

So, my loans are lower than theirs. So, I would be paying off my loans first, but at the same time making minimum payments on theirs. Is that >> So, you make you make minimum payments on all of your debt, regardless of what the minimum payment is. And then whatever the smallest loan is, um maybe it's one of the federal loans or maybe it's one of the parent plus loans, whatever the smallest balance is, not not by monthly payment, by balance.

Whatever the smallest balance is, that's the one you put all the extra money on and that's the one that you're going to knock out first. And so, and then the the idea is you start feeling the momentum off of this and then you feel good and you do the next you put all the money on the next smallest debt. Then that one's paid off. You have all that freed up money and then you put it on the next smallest debt. And that's how this works. Um, just that's a good clarific.

So that's a that's a good thing to remember going forward. Thank you for the call. We've got Jana who's in Baltimore, Maryland. Jana, you're on the line, my friend.

>> Hi. So, I'm I'm 22 years old and I'm

currently back in college. I took around

like a break for for a bit. However, the

college that I go to right now, it's like a private um Christian college, and

I owe them around like $36,000.

Um they've been allowing me to push the

balance off for the past three semesters, but they're saying that I need to get that balance down to $1,000

>> by the next semester. So essentially I

would have to be able to pay 35,000

by closer to the end of August.

>> What is it? Is it because it's a Christian school? Is it because it's like are you borrowing directly from the school or something that it's not allowing you to wait until you've graduated to pay these things back?

>> Um no. So, when I first went to college,

I kind of messed up with my grades and

things like that. And so, when it came down to me doing my financial aid again,

when I finally decided to get serious about school, FASA just didn't cover the

full amount. >> Okay. >> Um, >> so is this a payment plan directly with the school? >> Yeah.

>> Yes. It's not technically a loan. It's just a balance that you haven't paid yet. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, it's just a balance.

>> Are you currently going to that school?

>> Yes, I am. >> Okay. So, what's likely going to happen is they're not going to let you continue going to the school after the 6 months if you don't pay it.

>> Did you get clarity on what happens then? Because at this point, it may be moot for you to even go to class right now.

>> You might need to take a gap and solve this.

So, they they essentially told me that

if I can't get it down to the $1,000

um on its own, then I just won't be able to register for my >> Exactly. And so, you can't afford six grand a month right now. Are you working?

>> Yes, I am. >> How much do you make a month?

>> Um, I have two jobs. one through the school and one throughout the um outside of

school. Um the job that I work outside of school I maybe can bring like 3,000

possibly 4,000 um sorry possibly 2,000

2500 a month and my school maybe maybe

like 500 6 5 to 600 a month.

>> So you got 3,000 a month total. Do you have any money saved anywhere?

No. >> Okay. So, >> my family went through a rough patch, so I've been giving them pretty much any

spare money. And >> here here's the thing. >> Family is kind of >> you need to work with their with their office and just be clear with them. I don't have this money. I can't pay. I don't make $6,000 a month. I got to cover my own bills. And so, that might mean you can't go to school right now.

You need to get to work full-time, overtime, pay what you owe, and then maybe go to a different school that you can actually afford because clearly this private Christian one is costing a lot of money that you don't have.

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All right, you guys asked for it and we listened. The live like no one else cruise is back by popular demand. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave and the Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean.

You can share your story with Dave, swap jokes with George, or sing karaoke with me apparently and more. So, if you're on Baby Step 4 or higher, this is your chance to join us. The cruise is going to be March 14th through the 21st, 2027.

And if you register and book by February 1st, you can save up to $300 this week only. Okay? So save up to $300 this week

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I hope I see you guys out there. It was a fun time. Just seeing that ship brought me back. Good, good memories.

>> Brought you back to the Caribbean. All right. Jessica, who is far from the Caribbean, is in Phoenix, Arizona.

>> Hi. >> What's up? How can we help?

>> So, I'm sure you'll ask questions on more specifics, but my essential question is, I'm 44, married, no kids, and completely debtree with a paidoff home. Uh, unfortunately, my dad did pass away about a year ago. He did own his home free and clear. I have two additional sisters.

The home is worth about 700,000. My mom, who is not married to my father and is financially set um with about a million in retirement and owns her home free and clear, is considering selling it and moving it to Arizona?

Obviously, I can get into specifics about our finances to see if that's a good idea, but just kind of want to know the pros and cons of that and any potential pitfalls of that decision.

Um, so let me just make sure you said all that very quickly. So you're doing fine, mom is doing fine, and then you

have this home with your other three sisters. >> Other two sisters? Yes. >> Other two sisters. Do they want to sell it or do they want to gift it to her to your mom? >> Do they both agree?

>> My my older sister and I are both very

financially well off. We sold a business. We each have about $8 million invested um in the market and homes that are over 1.5 million in debtree and earn about 250 a year. Okay. My younger sister does well, but she's not in the exact same position. So, our thought was my mom pays her 250,000 for the house.

Melissa and I forgo um receiving that money from my mom. That way, she can upgrade the house and do anything she wants and still be within her budget.

And then she finally gets to live out hopefully the next 30 years actually living because she's worked her butt off her entire life and provided for us and been an incredible mom and she's never done anything for her. So we would like to do it but I don't know if there's good. That's what I wanted to hear. That was my hope but I didn't know if you were like huge red flag take

if everyone's good with this if everyone's happy with the decision and mom does mom actually want this house?

>> If she can redo it how she wants then yes. Can she and she can afford to redo it how she wants. You're not going to fund that as well.

>> Absolutely. Because we're not having her pay us each the 200. That extra 400 will allow her to do exactly what she wants.

>> Okay. So, she's getting a free house plus 400 grand.

>> Correct. >> That's a pretty sweet deal. Well, the the one thing to think about is the step up in basis. So, when you inherited the home, you get a step up in value, but when you gift it, you know, that's a different situation. And so, what is the house worth today?

>> About 700. And my dad passed away about a year ago. So I think the basis, you know, step up is limited. But obviously when we go to sell the house eventually when my mom passes, if it remains in the trust or even not with her will, then we would have that amount to pay.

>> I mean, I would definitely work with an estate attorney on this and a CPA to make sure that you, you know, dot the eyes and cross the tees here. But there's no big red flags other than understanding the financial components.

Um, obviously your dad let this, you know, inher let you guys inherit the home. Um, I don't know what the relationship was with your mom and if there's any bad blood there and if that's odd or awkward for her, but as far as the money part, >> she'd be thrilled. >> Okay, everyone's happy.

>> I I love the idea. I don't see why there's any problem in it. I think that you guys are good daughters, especially the $400,000 cash part. That's pretty >> That's a good place. These are good problems to have. I already have $10 million, so I don't need this extra house sitting around. >> We needed the win. Thank you, Jessica, for the call. We needed that one. Uh, we got Jimmy who's in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Hey, Jimmy. How can we help today?

>> Hey, can you hear me? >> I can.

>> Awesome. So, um, I just wanted to say I'm a great fan of what you guys do for people and everything. Um, so, um, I

unexpectedly received the largest bonus of my life,

um, this week and I wanted to tell that where to go before my wife decided

on on how to burn through it. How much

is the bonus? We have to know.

>> Well, before taxes, we're talking like 7,300 is all. So, probably after we're like three grand or something.

>> Okay. Well, way to go. It's your largest bonus to date. Congratulations.

>> Yes. And so I had a couple places that I itemized that it should possibly go and I I needed help with making the right decision. Um one, we have about a an

emergency fund that would last me till about Tuesday of next week. So wondering

if uh wondering if we should use that to

create create our non-existent emergency fund. Um >> two, we got married over a decade ago at the time. you know, we had a lot of young kids and stuff and we decided to, you know, go cheap and we haven't gone on our honeymoon yet. Um, we I promised her we would go at 10 years.

10 years has come and went this year and we're still not, you know, we still don't have the money saved up for that. So, the possibility to spend that to take her on a honeymoon or my third option was to use it to buy the IPO of SpaceX when it releases. >> Oh, boy.

>> Yes. Yes, we do. We've been >> we've been working through it. It's it's just home loans. Um >> multiple >> uh No, it's one um we do have a helock we use to purchase another property. Um

but we'll be all the way through paying that off um within the next two years.

>> Okay. >> So, we'll be down to our mortgage only, which right now we're sitting at like a $220,000 balance. I think it's worth about six. How how much is the heliloc that you took out?

>> Uh well, it ended up getting out of hand and I think it got all the way up to 80, but I think we're down to owing uh like

40 on it now. >> Oh, and how much is your income?

>> Which is our income? Oh, that's a loaded question. Probably about 90 90,000 a

piece maybe. >> Okay. So, you guys make 180.

>> Yep. So, this heliloc we would put in baby step two, >> which means bad news, bud. The vacation's going to wait.

>> Yeah, you need to you need to do what you said, which is stock up that emergency fund to a,000 bucks cuz getting you to Tuesday isn't going to work. Uh, and then yeah, the other two or three thousand needs to go towards baby step two, my guy.

>> Okay. And I would let the honeymoon I'd let the honeymoon be the why to kick it into gear >> to get this this heliloc paid off this 40,000 if that's all all the debt you have to your name and then let that be the way you celebrate is we're doing an amazing honeymoon once we pay this debt off because we owe it to ourselves.

>> Okay. I like that plan a lot.

>> I do. I do too. >> You guys work really hard. You have a great income. And so the fact that it's been a decade and we have almost nothing in the emergency fund. We're taking out the heliloc. It just tells me there are some other behavior things we got to fix and you guys can fix it really fast with this income. That's the good news. You'll knock out the HELOC real fast if you put all of your attention toward it.

You'll get the emergency fund done real fast if you really focus on it. And then the vacation will be really fun instead of a sinking feeling like, uh, why are we here? We have a heliloc on our back.

We don't have anything in savings. Why did we do this? >> Yeah, that's right. So George, why don't you explain how you arrived at putting their HELOC in baby step six versus baby step two? >> Yes. So when it comes to HELOCs, if the HELOC balance is more than half of your

annual income, we would make it a baby's baby step six item. Yes, >> it's large enough that it feels like another mortgage in your world. And if it's less than half your annual income, put it in baby step two inside of the debt snowball and knock it out. Cuz that tells me it can get rolled up in there and it'll get knocked out fast. It's not going to take seven years. >> That's right. Yeah, they were right at the line with the 80,000. Uh just under the line to put it at baby step, too.

I'm sure they were excited about that. >> I know that stinks. But, you know, you throw four grand a month at it, it's done in 10 months. If you can throw more than that, it's done even faster.

And so, 12 months from now, I think you guys could be in a place where you go, let's book this trip. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And that's that's the thing, guys. When you set out to do Baby Step 2, you set out to pay off your debt. You have to have a really great why. almost like that carrot dangling in front of you so that you know why you're going after this.

Maybe yours is a trip that you want to take. Maybe it's to pay for your kids' college. Maybe it's to have your dream house. Whatever it is, your why should be so strong because that's going to be your ultimate motivator.

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All right, welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio taking your calls. George, what do we say we go back to the phone lines? >> I'm down. >> We've got one here in our neck of the woods. Robert is in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, Robert. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. I'm fine. How are you today?

>> Excellent. How can we help out?

Okay, I'll I'll tell you my question first and then I'll give you all the particulars if you want them.

>> Okay. >> Um I'm looking I'm looking at retiring at the end of the year. Um and I'm

looking at all the indicators. Gold's high, dollars down, warm buckets, moved a bunch of cash, uh has the biggest cash cash possession ever. Should I take part of my 401k and move it into my cash mutual fund? Uh for now, >> how much money do you have? What's your what's your total nest egg?

>> Okay, total nest egg uh my wife and I have 400k and a 401k in Roth. Uh we have

100,000 in a high yield savings account.

We plan on using that interest draw off it yearly for part of our retirement living. My annual rate of return on my mutual funds is 10.89% over the last 23

years. >> Way to go. That's exactly what we tell people. >> That's where you should be. >> So you've been doing it right. So you're you're heavy in equities. You don't have a lot of bonds right now. What's the split?

>> Uh, it's it's probably I've been very aggressive cuz I found Dave later in life. >> Okay. >> So, I've been very aggressive. I probably 90 I'm probably 93% in stocks

right now. >> Dave Ramsey would like that. So, here's the deal. Dave is not a fan of the asset allocation theory of let's move you to 60% bonds because we're spooked. Because

the truth is, you are missing out on a whole lot of returns. Cuz you could live another 30 years, right? How old are you? >> Well, I'm 70. My wife plans to live to be a hundred, but I'm going to die first. >> Well, she'll outlive you out of sheer will. That's how the women are.

>> She fights me. Yes. >> So, here >> you're saying you want to pull it into cash.

>> No. No. I I have a money market fund within my Roth and in within within my

pull out of the market. It would be basically a high yield savings account at that point.

>> Yes. >> I would not do that. And is it because you're spooked by the indicators?

>> I'm spooked by the indicators. You know, I've I've I've lived through these corrections before. >> Mhm. >> Um but now I'm 11 months from retirement. >> Yeah. Here's the good news. You guys have some cash and so if the market was way down, what would you do? you would cut way down on your spending for a little bit and maybe dip into your high yield savings and try to not touch retirement, right?

>> Correct. >> Which means you can weather the storm.

>> Cuz here's the truth. If you ignored headlines for the rest of your life, I guarantee you, you would be twice as wealthy than the person who goes, "Well, I'm spooked. Let me jump out. Let me jump back in." >> I always say timing time in the market beats timing the market. And right now, you think you have the crystal ball and so does everyone else. But I'm telling you, put away the crystal ball and just keep it riding. >> But Robert, you also have the gift of um

time, which means you have the gift of knowledge. And think back because you said you've survived it all. Think back on those times where there was a dip.

And think how quickly the market corrected itself. What was it? A year, two years.

>> Yeah, that's true. Cuz I jumped out when COVID hit. >> And what happened? It spiked back up, didn't it? >> It did. >> And do you regret that?

I did because I missed a big part of that uh roller coaster.

>> You're living proof. Most of the best days happen right after the worst days.

And nobody knows how long the worst days are going to be, but usually you stick around in cash sitting on the sidelines way longer than you should and then you jump back in way later when the market's already back up. And so if I'm you, I'm just going to let it sit there and let it grow. And again, if there is a a market correction, not a crash, if there's a dip, you will be able to ride it out.

>> Okay. Well, I need I just needed someone to talk me off the cliff. >> Yeah, we're happy to.

>> I hope I did. And you're you're right.

There are there's indicators that are freaking people out right now. And a lot of people are taking advantage of that.

And it gets clicks, it gets views, it gets you to buy their crypto and their course and their gold and silver. Yeah.

>> But man, I would not adjust anything

you're doing right now. I wouldn't either. And like I said, somebody like Robert who's had 70 years to watch this all play out, he knows better than you and I, you know, me in my 30s and you in your 40s, you know that that was a joke, George. >> Thank you.

I am an old soul. I'm a 70year-old. >> I'm in my 40s. But the point is, he's seen this happen and he knows better than all of us that the recovery is real.

And usually in a couple of years, you're right back actually in a better position than you were before the the negative downturn. So remember that, Robert. >> Whether you're you're 25 or 75, heed that advice. Time in the market beats timing the market.

>> Yes.

What up, Josh?

>> Hi. How are you >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, so I'm 26 with a net worth of about 800,000.

>> Nice. >> Um, >> thank you. And I'm just trying I've I quit my job two years ago. Um, I'm

deciding whether or not I should return to that highpaying job, which I do not like, or use my savings as a runway to

transition into a different career more aligned with my interests.

>> Why would you go back to a job that you quit that you don't like when you have an $800,000 net worth and you can use it

as a runway to get to the job?

>> Yeah, this is like running back to the toxic ex. >> Yeah. I I I think it's because I mean to

be more specific, I want to build a career as a as a musician. Um, and I understand that the odds of that paying off are low.

>> It depends on what you mean by that.

>> If you want to be the next Bruno Mars, maybe the odds are low, but if you want to make a career in the many, many, many ways that people work in the music industry, I'm sure there's plenty of opport. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I I'd love to like make music and and like spend time developing marketable skills like content creation, advertising, and running campaigns where if if it doesn't work out as an artist, I'd be able to find a job uh more aligned in that industry.

I I'm just trying to make sure I'm making a financially, you know, responsible decision and have enough runway, you know, >> I wouldn't drain your your savings just because you're trying to pursue music.

Yeah. >> And try to get that off the ground. >> What kind of artist are you trying to be?

>> It's like pop or rap a little bit.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> 26. >> 26. Uh, how long have you been pursuing

music or is you're just getting started at 26? >> I I I've been making music for maybe about 10 years. Um, but I haven't

>> put effort into like >> Yeah, I've been releasing. I just haven't been putting any effort really into content creation or advertising or

or, you know, ad management or anything like that. >> Interesting. >> What's all that talk about ad management? This feels very separate.

Are you wanting to be in marketing and you're sort of like, well, I have these skills I can fall back on in case the music doesn't work out. >> Or are you using that to get >> to have the skills like to fall back on in case the music doesn't work out?

>> Okay. I Well, I could tell you this, you know, and and this is an unpopular opinion, but when it comes to wanting to be an artist, those folks who really make it, they don't have a fallback plan. They go hard into it.

>> It's all they think about. >> It's all they think about. And so, I'm just going to level with you right here. I'm not trying to shoot a dream down, but the way you're talking doesn't sound

like the person who's going to go all in on this and really go get it. Um,

>> I mean, haven't you had two years on the sidelines to be working on it? What happened? >> Uh, I was traveling and learning Spanish

in Argentina.

>> Down to do a lingo, bro. Don't tell me you have this dream of being a musician, and you didn't do it with this 2-year gap you've just had. >> You might be a free spirit, and I do hear that. And for that reason alone, I would not go back to this old job. But I don't hear the go-get factor of sacrificing it all to be the next Bruno Mars. if I mean otherwise send us in your tape and we'll we'll tell you the real truth.

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All right, to the phone lines, we've got Kevin who's in Tallahassee, Florida.

Kevin, you're up.

>> All righty. Hey guys, uh I just had a quick question. Um I really want to be able to get my finances in order uh to help my new wife be able to transition as a stay-at-home mom, but I'm not really sure how to go about that.

>> Well, I love that you're thinking about that and thinking ahead. The first place to start is, is it an affordable thing for you today uh to move that direction?

So, George and I can help you with that.

uh what are you making with her working and what would you be making if she stayed home?

>> So, right now with the both of us working uh we make it's about 8,000 a

month. >> Okay. Um that would put uh without her working

that brings us

>> to about

um sorry >> that's okay. I hear the >> one about 4,000.

>> Okay. So about half >> it'll half the income. >> Woo. That's a big jump. The question is can you afford to do this? So obviously the first questions that I have are do you guys have debt?

Uh, so she when we got married, she came

in with no debt and I came in with all the debt. Um, we just have at at this

point I just have a $4,000 um auto loan. I do have um some credit

cards that were taken to collection about two or three years ago along with a lease >> car that went into repo.

>> How much are the credit cards? Um, it

was two of them. One was $1,000 and one was $3,000.

>> Okay. >> So, about a $4,000 balance on that or are there more penalties and fees?

>> Uh, as far as I've seen, it was just a $4,000. >> Okay. What's the deficit on this repo that you still owe?

>> Uh, so they said that when they took the

car that I would just be free and clear and that it would just take the seven years for it to fall off my credit.

>> Really? Um, >> they didn't come after you for the difference.

No >> positive.

>> So far they haven't. >> How long ago did that happen?

>> About in February in 2025.

>> Uh I would double I would just look into that. I would hate for that to come back as like a zombie debt that you thought was gone and next thing you know you owe like a $10,000 deficit or something.

>> You get served a lawsuit over this thing cuz you didn't pay and one guy on the phone told you, "No, you're good, man." >> Yeah. I'd want whatever it is in writing that I owe nothing and I would keep that paper laminated and like under glass for life. >> Frame it.

>> Okay. So, that will be your homework getting off this call. So, you got 8,000 bucks in debt. Nothing else to speak of?

No student loans? Nothing else?

>> No student loans? Nothing currently? No.

No. >> Okay. Do you have any money in savings?

>> Uh, I currently have $1,000 in an emergency fund. >> Good. >> I just got that in there.

>> Congrats. Is she pregnant right now or are you guys looking to start a family soon? >> No, we're looking to start a family.

>> Great. Okay. You got lots of runway.

>> We're expecting to start trying within a year to be able to make this transition happen. >> I love it. So, I mean, it looks like you're familiar with the baby steps. You've already got the $1,000 saved. So, next on the list is let's pay off this 8,000. And here's a fun experiment.

Let's pretend like we only live on the 4,000. >> Oh, I like that. And that way we can take 4,000 this month and 4,000 next month. Throw it towards the debt. Debt's gone. And in the meantime, we got to experience running our household on $4,000 a month to see how does that feel.

>> Do you like that experiment? >> And then continue putting the four grand in savings. And five, six months later, you've got a fully funded emergency fund. Now we're investing for the future. And we've experimented for months living off of year one income.

>> I like that. So that's that's really the barometer. It's can we cover all of our expenses from my one income and still accomplish our financial goals, which means we got to be investing 15% of our income and for that baby we have to have a little leftover to put towards college and pay off the house eventually. Are you guys renting right now?

>> Uh we are currently. >> Okay, great. So the next step after that might be we want to save up a down payment once baby's here, once we're investing. That might be a longer term goal, but that's really the math on it.

And I hope your income continues to go up. I found that once, you know, mom's staying at home, the husband's like, "All right, I got to go grind a little bit." And maybe that means you're going to get a promotion and and kind of move up in your career as well. What do you do for work? >> So, right now, I'm a correctional officer for the state. >> Okay. What's the sort of ladder in your field to move up?

>> Well, right now, um, we're actually

looking at getting a pay raise from $23 an hour to 28. >> Nice. That's excellent. That's like 10 grand a year. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, that's it would be super exciting.

>> Yeah, that's wonderful >> if we get it. >> But and then we can always promote up

and make a little bit more. But I'm

actually looking at doing a career change for a possible

um uh an even higher >> Yeah. What do you want to get into?

>> I kind of want to get into being a paramedic firefighter. >> Oh, nice. That's cool. Yeah. The main thing to be think about thinking about I I love these career changing discussions. I love the fact that you're thinking about the wife being a stay-at-home mom. Number one thing is just to make sure whatever you do, you have savings built up because that's a bridge that you're coming up against.

And to have money saved is going to help you be able to do that. And then also, yeah, just making sure you're thinking ahead, especially with things like home buying. Uh making sure that on the $4,000 you guys feel good about it. You don't bite off more than you can chew.

especially knowing that you might have a career change coming up.

make this transition and the most research that you can do ahead of time, kind of like what you're doing now, getting all the answers, as many answers as you can anyway, is really going to set you up for success. >> Yeah. And you may want to make that career change before baby's here because it's harder. If there's a gap in income and baby's here and it's solo income, that's going to be a lot harder.

And so I would really work your way through these baby steps fast knowing I want to make this career change. >> Yeah, that's good. >> I like that advice, Jade. You want to make sure that any money move you make is from a place of stability and strength, not from desperation and weakness.

>> Well, yeah. Then you know you're really doing what it is that you want to do and you can kind of take take your time in the way that is appropriate in order to do that.

Thank you for the question, George.

Let's do one of these social questions. We haven't done one of these in a while, and I like them. Hit it. All right. This is Keith from the Ramsay Baby Steps community. He says, "How do you get through years of the boring gazelle intensity grind?" >> Wow. Listen, if it's boring, you're doing it wrong. It's You're not sitting on the couch.

>> Yes. >> Like, you don't have time to be bored.

>> That's true. >> But I think he's saying it just feels like a slog. >> Yeah. I mean, if you've got the average person when they do Baby Step 2, it's really a two-year deal, right? That's that's what we're seeing right now. >> 18 to 24 months is the average.

>> Yeah. And so, but there I mean, there's plenty of you who call in and it took you three years or four years. It took my husband and I seven and a half years.

What was your time? >> Mine was I mean mine was pretty fast. I had a smaller amount of debt, 18 months to pay 40. >> Right on. Right on. And so no matter where you are, there is going to be some moment even if you're one of the 18months who is like I don't feel like

going to my side hustle today or I don't for the love of God can I just order a pizza? You know, whatever it is that it is that you want to do that's going to pop up. And I I think it's so important, George, to have that reason why number one, cuz that's kind of like the north star on this whole thing is why do I want to do this? The reason why can't just be because I want to get out of debt or because I want more money.

>> You said it's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> Don't let Dave be your why. As much as he's gonna be proud of you, but don't let that be your why.

>> You need something more. Um >> maybe baby step three is also I mean that one is boring. Baby step three is way less exciting than two when you're paying off debt. Cuz three you're just like, "All right, I got to stack some cash over here.

I'm not seeing much progress as far as paying off debt and freeing up the payment." You're just sort of building your little your acorns for the winter. Baby step three is a sleeper. I will say in many ways, and I know it's hard to believe, but I actually think that that might be the hardest of the baby steps.

part was over. >> You ran a marathon and you're like, "Wait, there's a 5K after this. I got to run. Oh my god, >> man. You got to start warming up again.

>> Can't catch a break." You know, I think the big thing as far as answering the question and how to stay intense through years of the grind for me, the unlock has been finding ways to reward myself throughout the journey. Whether you're on two, whether you're on three, whether you're on four, five, and six. Um, in baby step two, it's little things like after I pay off this amount of debt, I am ordering the pizza.

Okay, we're going to take the vacation.

Okay, we're going to upgrade the cars.

So, make sure that you're rewarding yourself uh throughout the process.

Nothing that could throw you off track, but just enough to keep you going until the next step.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things

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All right, tax time is just around the corner. 2026 taxes. Don't worry, George and I have you covered with everything that you need to know. George, this feels like a a talk nerdy to me segment.

>> It is. That's the We had to brand it so that people would listen in. >> Yeah. So, so, so talk dirty to me about tax day, which which this year is going to be April 15th. It's always April 15th, 2026. Extension deadline, October 15, 2026. Tell us everything we need to know. >> Okay, this is the important parts. These are the changes for 2026. And the big highlights are tax brackets have been adjusted for inflation.

>> Oo. Oo. Ah. And tax rates stay the same.

That's 10% to 37%. So those tax rates for the brackets stay the same. The income thresholds have increased. If you're watching, tell me more.

If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, we have the visuals up so you can see the table because this is one of the most confusing things about taxes. >> People get it twisted. >> People say, "Well, Jade, I don't want to make a dollar more because it'll push me into the next bracket." >> Yeah. >> Assuming the wrong thing.

>> Only that new dollar is taxed at the new rate.

So, let me go over the um the numbers.

So, 10% bracket is up to 12,400 if

you're single, 24,00 filing jointly. Then from that number up

to $50,400 if you're single, 12% bracket

and for married filing jointly, $100,800.

And then we move to the 22% bracket, which is from that 50 grand up to 105,700 if you're single and up to

211,400 if you're married filing jointly. If you're doing the math at home, it doubles for those married filing jointly. >> Keeps it simple. And then 37% which is the highest bracket. Any money you make over $640,600 if you're single will be taxed at the 37% and married filing jointly. Any dollar you make over $768,700

will be taxed at 37%. Have you fallen

asleep yet? >> I I I wanted to, but I forced myself to stay awake in order to say the words, "Yes, paying taxes sucks, but making money is always going to feel nicer." >> Yes. So, you need to think about what the marginal tax rate is versus effective. So effective, meaning yes, you got up into that 22% tax rate, but when you average it all out, it was really 15%.

Is what you paid on your total income. So there you go. That's the federal brackets with the adjusted uh thresholds. >> What about standard deduction increases, George?

>> Don't get me started on the STANDARD DEDUCTION. >> WIND IT UP. LET'S GO. >> So this is uh most people will benefit from taking the standard deduction.

And so this is probably you if you're listening. The standard deduction lowers your taxable income and is now higher again for 2026, which is good news. So standard deduction if you're single is $16,100.

didn't see that money. >> It's a freebie. >> The rest we're going to touch, but that part we won't. Married filing jointly, $32,200.

>> That ain't bad. >> And head of household, $24,150.

>> So for all of you saving up every single receipt thinking that maybe you can outdo it, you're probably not going to. >> Yeah. So, unless you're you're a business owner, you got a a very complex schedule C situation or you're self-employed, some people are 1099, sometimes it makes sense to itemize and uh you can check with a CPA or tax pro on that. >> Now, there's a lot surrounding uh the one big beautiful bill act and I know people I know one big beautiful bill.

There's a lot of questions around that.

How's it going to affect us uh this tax term? George, what do you have to say about that? >> So, uh for anyone that makes tips, you're happy about this. No tax on most tips, which is a first for many workers.

>> I love that. I have to say I think that's great. >> They're hustling out there. Let them have it. And then you've got overtime pay deduction for hourly workers. So, that's nice as well. If you do overtime and then senior, shout out to the ARP members out there. >> You get a deduction, a new $6,000 deduction available whether you go standard or itemized for taxpayers 65

plus, subject to income limits.

>> Okay. Do we know what those are, >> Dave Ramsey? Sorry. Yeah, he ain't getting it. >> He hits the age, but not the income.

>> Not the income. That's okay. He He'll be fine. >> He will survive.

>> All right. I love that. So, just a couple of smart tax tips going forward.

Make sure that you're gathering up your documents early, guys. Don't wait till the last minute. You're going to need your W2s, your 1099s, any receipts.

Start gathering that stuff now. Put it in a folder cuz they're going to need it. Also, you need to decide whether you're going to do this thing yourself or whether you're going to hire a tax pro. Again, if it's simple, just your basic W2, you probably could handle it yourself. Uh, but if it's a little bit more complex, you're probably going to need a pro. Um, if needed, make sure to file your extension. Okay? File the extension, but you still got to pay April 15th. Don't get it.

>> It's illegal to not pay in time. It's not illegal to file the extension. So, it's okay if you don't file in time. File the extension, but you got to pay what you owe. And you can use tax planning to reduce surprises next year.

I always ask my tax guy, hey, what can I do better next year? That's right. What are you seeing? I'm I want to always improve and pay the government a little bit less if I can.

And so, the bottom line for 2026, higher deductions and inflation adjusted brackets may lower your tax burden, but deadlines and planning still matter. So, be proactive to keep more of your income and avoid stress. >> That's right. And George, good tax planning isn't about the loopholes, although we might can find you some of those.

It's about being intentional. You work really hard. Don't give more than you need to to the IRS.

If you get a refund this year, just know you overpaid the government as a a blessing to them and they said, "No, we can't take that legally. You can have it back." >> That's right. That's money that you could be putting towards whatever baby step you're on. So, take a closer look at that. But for any questions around how to file taxes or if you need to work with one of our pros, go ahead and head to ramseyolutions.comtaxes.

That's ramseyolutions.comtaxes.

All right, George. >> We did it. I feel good. That was very, very nerdy. That might be the nerdiest we've ever gotten. >> No insults, no injuries. We all learned something. Use that at your next trivia night. >> Woo. All right, let's go back to the phone lines. Taylor in Chattanooga, take us back down to earth. What's up?

>> Yeah, so me and my wife have accumulated about $92,000 in consumer debt, and we

have a plan to get out in the next 24

months, but I just want to make sure it's the right plan. >> Yeah. Tell us, is it the Ramsay plan?

Tell us what your plan is.

>> Well, um, so it's actually kind of

complicated. So, we owe in bills about

$3,000 a month that we're just trying to survive on at the moment.

>> Okay. >> But we also want to take anything extra and throw it at bills. And we don't have a $1,000 emergency fund. Um, we just can't afford to do that. and I'm 100% commission based real estate agent. Um,

so checks don't always come.

>> But how you're saying you can afford to pay off 92,000 in 24 months, but you can't afford a $1,000 emergency fund.

>> Not at this moment. >> Why?

What does that mean? Explain why you feel that way.

So, so basically my wife is a full-time

student and she's a full-time worker and she makes just enough to cover the bills. Um, my checks are kind of far and

far in they have a lot of space in between them at times.

>> Um, so when we do make the money, we just started this plan. Got it.

>> Um, this is the first month. So the money that we just had, we wanted to make sure we were good for the next couple months because this debt really weighs on me. >> What kind of debt is this? Can you break down the 92,000?

>> Yeah. So about $45,000 is her car and

we're upside down on that one. It's probably worth about 33. So we're upside down about um 13. Um 17 is my car. 17 is

a personal loan and then the rest is credit cards. >> Okay. How much is the credit cards so I don't have to do the math?

>> I'd probably say about 8 to 9,000.

>> Okay. >> Maybe 10. So, my first order of

business, I really would be trying to get out of this $45,000 car. It's worth it to get the $13,000 loan um and figure

out a way to just get a cash beater, spend four or 5,000. I think that's going to be worth it to you. And at the end of the day, you're more like 18,000 in on a car versus 45,000 in on a car.

Have you tried that?

>> We have not. We've looked into a lot of options into getting out of the car, but at this point, we just kind of gave up on trying to get out and just more trying to pay it off. >> What did you look into?

>> Um, selling it and trying to get something super cheap, but we don't have cash saved up. We're actually like, you know, at times are $100.

>> So, what you would need in our account, >> what you'd need to do is you'd have to get a loan for the difference since you don't have it. You would you wouldn't be able to sell this car for 45,000 cuz

it's not worth that. What you would need to do is go down to a credit union, go to a bank. I don't care how you get the loan. Anything's going to be better than this $45,000.

And then from there, you have an irregular income. It doesn't mean you can't contribute. It just means that you need a peaks and valleys fund over to the side and use your income to build that up so you always have a month's worth of income there. That way, you feel the freedom to actually use your monthly cash flow towards the debt and towards an active budget.

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Back to the phone lines. We've got Saber in Atlanta, Georgia. That's a strong name. I like it. What's up, Saber?

>> Hi, Jaden George. I have a quick question. My husband and I are disagreeing on to buy or not to buy a house. >> To buy or not to buy, that is the question. Tell us, tell us both sides of the equation.

>> Um, so he is 68 and I am 57

and I feel like I don't want to take on that risk because he's older.

>> Okay. So, I don't know. So, I have a fear factor of doing that.

>> Now, the fear factor of him being older, is it we'll get this house, we won't pay it off in time, there's not enough money there, and I'll be left if he passes with this huge mortgage. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Tell us about you guys' net worth.

>> Um, so we have our Baby Step three. We

have our fully funded emergency fund.

Okay. >> We have about $20,000 in savings and we

have about $100,000 in investment.

>> Okay. $100,000 in retirement investments.

>> Correct. >> And that's all you've got?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Now, when you said the 20,000 saved, that's the emergency fund. Or was that above the emergency fund?

>> Above the emergency fund. >> Above. Okay. You both working full-time?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What do you guys make as a household?

>> Uh, we bring home about 120ish.

>> Okay. And what's the plan for the house purchase and the down payment and the price, all of that?

>> Well, that's where we're kind of having an issue because I want to put all the extra money into retirement funds and he

wants to not do that and get a chance for a down payment. Yeah, I I do think at this age, you're going to want to do that simultaneously because with no debt, you're going to want to take advantage of that 15% as much as you can at age 57 and 68. Um, how much of the

$120,000 income is his and how much of it is yours and how long does he plan to continue working?

>> We make about the same right now. He um

plans on working at least until 75 probably. Yeah, because I don't think he has a choice. Okay, good. Um, >> do you guys have any debt?

>> No. >> Okay, that's good news. So, if you look

at the baby steps, you guys are square in baby step four, which means you're investing 15% of your household income.

So, that's step number one. We want to at least be doing that. So, for you guys at 120, that's 18,000 a year going into retirement accounts.

Then anything above and beyond that we can now put in a separate account for a down payment.

So based on that, how long will it take you to have a solid down payment and then have a mortgage payment that you guys can actually afford based on your take-home pay? That's the big question mark. What does a house cost that you guys are looking at?

>> Um probably around 350.

>> Okay. And you we're starting from zero here with our down payment. So what is your down payment goal? Have you guys crunched any of those numbers to go, "Hey, we'd like to have $50,000 to put down." >> Well, I I hear Dave all the time say 20%. I would like to have a little more.

I'd like to have 60 to $75,000 to put

down. >> Yeah. I think for you guys' equation, the way you have to look at it these days is what you have to put down to get it uh to where it's no more than 25% of your take-home. And at this point, it usually is going to be more than that 20% rule that kind of got squeezed out with the housing market.

So, I would be looking in a in a calculator and say, "Okay, what do we need to put down? What do we need to solve for in order to have that take-home pay where it's no more than I'm sorry, to have that mortgage where it's no more than 25% of our take-home pay after taxes." And so, that's what I'd be looking for.

>> Um, in my every dollar, we do about 6,000 average a month. >> Okay. And that's just after taxes. We've already >> That feels real low. >> Taxes, but we've >> Well, we al we've already had money taken out for the investments at that point. >> Okay. So, what you want to do is find out the number. That's just the after tax number. >> It's probably closer to 8,000.

>> Correct. We put 2,800 a month into retirement. >> Oh, you guys are really socking it away.

Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. >> So, you may want to ratchet that down.

Otherwise, it's going to take you seven years to save up a down payment. Do you see how we need to split the difference here? ratchet it down,000%.

Now it's 1,500 going into retirement, which just freed up 1,300 to go into savings. You see what we did there?

>> Yes. >> And now we can start saving, you know, more measurably to go, hey, we can have 20 grand a year. So in three years, we'll have the down payment to put down.

And you know, that might get you close.

Right now on my calculator, I'm seeing about 2500 bucks a month for that mortgage with the numbers you just gave me on a 15-year.

>> Okay. which means we either need to save a little more, rates need to come down a little more. The home value, we need to maybe look in a $300,000 home. So, there's going to be some compromises here or we go make more and we speed up this whole process and we can increase the amount of mortgage we can take on.

But we need to also understand seven years from now he's not going to be working anymore. Well, now you need to be able to cover that mortgage off of whatever income you have, social security, you continuing to work, all of that, >> right? So, I think those are the those are the problems or they're not problems, they're equations that you need to solve for in order to go into this with a peaceful state. I'm all for you guys having a place of your own and going into retirement with something that you can call yours as opposed to in a renters's position.

I think that the mortgage is the biggest line item on your budget and you want to go into retirement having control over that. So, what George said is just right. It's going to take some time for you to sit down and think of this, but the advice that I want you to take away from us and that I want you to share with your husband so you guys can discuss is you got to do the investing and the saving for the down payment simultaneously. And it's really going to help you do that by keeping the investment at its proper amount at 15%.

If you try to do more than that, it's really going to make this thing lopsided and it's going to be harder for you guys to do the things that you need to do to put you in the safest position uh in the right amount of time. So that's me. Final word on that. >> Yeah, I'm going.

If you could do 1,500 to retirement and throw 3,000 into the down payment fund, that's 36 grand a year. You got your down payment in two years while investing.

>> Yeah, I like that plan, too. And let's kind of zoom out on this a little bit because I do think that this is something that people ask us a lot. Uh even if it's somebody who was in baby step two, maybe it took them a really long time uh to do baby step 2. maybe they're already in their 40s or something like that and they're thinking about buying a house.

Once you get into baby steps four, five, and six, you really guys don't want to delay you don't want to delay the down payment really any more than 2 to 3 years.

uh, delay it by your investing, if that makes sense. So, if you think that it's going to take you more than 2 to 3 years to save your down payment, you should probably go ahead and start investing beyond that two years because we really don't want you to miss out anymore on any more time in the market. is basically what that boils down to. And that's why I suggested what I suggested with them is because they're already 57

and 68 years old. Like they they don't have the time to waste. >> I would be projecting, hey, based on the real numbers of our social security, what I'll be making, can we afford to cover this mortgage payment without his current income? >> Yeah, that's the big that's the big number that you're going to want to know because the truth is they're probably not going to have time to pay off a mortgage before he retires.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's seven years from now. >> And if they get the house in 2 years, we got 5 years to knock out this entire mortgage >> with that income, it's not going to happen. And so, we need to look at reality.

>> Yes. And another good reason for a 15-year mortgage versus a 30-year mortgage because that's going to give her a lot more security. >> She'll pay it off in her lifetime. >> Exactly.

Exactly. So, there's a lot of reasons.

that you could possibly be in. It's very conservative, but that at the end of the day, you're not going to be worried about your house. Yeah. 15-year mortgage, you're not going to be worried about if you have enough in retirement, if you do the things that we teach in the order that we teach it. So, it's super duper important. >> And remember this, retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. So, I don't care if you go, "Well, I'm 67.

It's time to retire." Not if you're broke. >> That's right. So, you don't just get to because it's time for everyone to go live in the in, you know, their 55 plus community. You get to retire when you can afford to cover all of your expenses from the investments you have.

And maybe social security is gravy on top. But never rely on that. Especially the younger generations. We all see the writing on the wall.

All right. >> We know social security. I mean, it has the ability.

>> Uncle Sam is uh not doing great financially. They're like $ 38 trillion in debt. They're running out of money left and right. And so we got to look at the cards and go, we got to invest for ourselves. We can't rely on any program.

You got to create your own ship here. Build your own ark. >> And you'd want to do that anyway because they're investing that money. Obviously, there's not enough of it to go around anymore. >> It was never meant to replace 100% of your income. >> That's right. Yeah. Exactly. So, let this be a word to the wise. Do your own investing. Think ahead and be proactive, guys. Work these baby steps.

All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, Jade Warshaw, you ready to get to these phones? >> I'm your hype man. Let's go. >> I'm ready. Keegan's ready. He's in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's up, Keegan?

>> Hi. Um, I was calling in cuz we live in a hotel and we just totaled our card that we use for Instacart. How do we recover? >> From what part?

>> The hotel. >> All three.

>> All three. Yeah. >> Okay. So, you want to get out of the hotel? >> We want to get out of it. First, we need to get a new car. Second, we want to get out of this hotel cuz she's pregnant.

And um, >> how long have you been in this hotel and why? And why? Because some family things

with her family and um I kind we lived up in Columbus and she had some stuff going on with her family and we decided to move.

>> Okay. Did you So you did not have your

own place prior to this. You were living with family? >> I was living with my parents.

>> How old are you guys?

>> I'm 21. She's 24.

>> Okay. So you're in the hotel. How long have you been in the hotel?

>> Since about July. >> Oh boy. >> Goodness. What What's the rate to stay there?

>> It's like It's expensive. It's like

1,400 a month or something.

>> Okay. 1,400 a month. And what's your

income? I mean, I know the car got totaled, but what are you earning?

>> So, we were earning about like $800 a

week. >> Was that both of you doing Instacart or what? How? >> That was both of us doing it together.

Yeah. In one car. One car.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, can I ask why why why is one

of you not working outside of the car basically? >> So, we I was but then I just had to quit my job because I wasn't getting paid well enough for us to like kind of survive off of it and Instacart was just better for both of us cuz situations we really couldn't control. But, um, I wasn't getting paid overtime and I was working so much but they didn't pay me overtime for it. So, >> and what kind of job were you working?

>> I was working for a marketing firm.

>> Okay. And so, you would get a marketing job today if you could.

>> Yeah, I would. >> Okay. And how about her?

>> She would probably do something server related. >> Okay. And can you do that as we speak?

Can you work at this hotel? That would probably be a better bet right now.

>> Like, what do you mean? Oh, no. I've tried, but they said they don't have anything. >> What about cleaning rooms?

I they have someone who does that.

>> Okay. And did you not have insurance?

>> I did, but we only had um liability.

>> Okay. So, it's on you.

>> Okay. So, >> kind of Yeah. >> What must happen? I mean, this is as quickly as you can. Instacart's not an option anymore, clearly. So, both of you have got to I don't care if it's walking down to the nearest fast food place or walking over to Walmart or Target. You got to you got to get something somewhere that's within walking distance or bus riding distance.

>> Yeah. Say I can we can Uber some places but that just gets expensive. >> How much money do you guys have? >> That's why I said bus riding.

>> Uh not enough to keep us afloat for like

another week maybe. >> Do you have like a few hundred bucks?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And do you have any debt?

>> Yeah, I we both personally do. I have like five, six grand in credit card debt and she has like four.

>> So all credit cards about 10 grand total. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And there was no car loan to speak of.

>> Okay. >> No, no, we paid the car in cash.

>> Okay, that's good. At least >> that's good. Yeah, that's good. >> Do you guys have any friends or family that you can lean on right now? A church community? Anything?

>> No. I mean, honestly, no.

>> Okay.

Well, you're going to need to find something because this hotel is about to kick you out. Yeah. Mhm.

>> Yeah. I've talked to them before and we like kind of talked to them. So, like I was hoping maybe they could help us out just by a little bit of time, but I don't know if that really is realistic or not. >> How often are they having you pay?

Is it every week? Is it How often do you have to make the payment? >> Usually weekly, but sometimes they let me get a like I'll be they let me get a little behind and pay it back if I need to. >> Okay.

Okay. Yeah. I'd be requesting I'd let them know what happened number one and say, "I know I've been paying you weekly. Can I pay you, you know, at the end of the month?

Can we make this more of a monthly deal? Cuz right now you guys are kind of like, >> this is desperate. Can you get a bicycle off Facebook Marketplace >> for $40 >> and make it somewhere and work?

>> Like Kroger? >> Great. >> Perfect. >> There's like a Kroger. >> How close? >> Um, >> is it walkable? Bikable?

>> Yeah, within like a mile.

>> Okay, that's what I want you to do. That's your homework after both of you are getting a job at Kroger today.

>> Yeah. make after this call, literally right after, talk to uh your girlfriend and you guys sit down and make a list of everything that's in a two to three mile radius. Waff a Waffle House, Kroger,

McDonald's, everything. And I want you guys, that's your field trip this afternoon and tomorrow is you're going to apply at every one of those locations until you get a job. >> This is the gap between you guys and homelessness. Do you understand how on fire this is? >> Exactly.

>> Like you don't even have a car to sleep in at this point. >> Yeah. No, exactly. That's what made it like scary today is cuz like we've at least had options like okay this this and I'm sure if I like it's just scary cuz like I don't we don't know where what the next plan is essentially like I was hoping they can help.

I'm sure they I know the owner and the manager pretty well here and I'm we're pretty like close to each other. >> That's good.

>> So yeah. >> So do that. >> Yeah, exactly. I was going to say like that'll only last me maybe two weeks.

>> Yeah. Do that homework that I just gave you. Um, and then the second piece of homework is I want you to find a local church and I want you to walk up in there after you've applied at all these places and I want you to walk up in there and say, "Here's the deal." And I want you to tell them exactly what you just told George. >> We're scared.

We're borderline homelessness. We're just we're we're good people. We just want to find some honest work. >> Ask them say, "I I we can Can we serve and and get a wage?

Is there something that we can do to earn some money? We really need help and we're willing to work in order to have it." Okay.

Okay. I said there's like a because we gone to a church over here a couple of times and >> there was a Catholic church that kind of helped us out with rent like not the past month. >> Mhm. >> So like there's people that I think may help.

I just don't know if we should ask the church, the same Catholic church again and be like, "Hey, >> if you're willing to work, I would I would say I'm not just asking for like benevolence. Can can I work? Is there something I can do? Can I, you know, help with parking in the morning?

Can I help with this or that? Do you need something out of store?" like whatever it is, I would be willing to work and whatever. I mean, >> go to a couple and say, "We're just trying to get back on our feet and we're willing to work and serve to do that." Um, and I think this is you guys can pull yourself out of this.

So, I want you to remember that >> and you worked at a marketing firm and so I would be looking for that next gig so that you can afford to get a car and that might mean we start with the bicycle and then we upgrade to the moped and then we upgrade to the beater car and then we go from there.

>> But you just need the next right thing to get you to survive another day right now. And then long term we need to figure out a life plan cuz whatever got us here ain't it. And I heard a lot of, well, we had to and then this thing happened and the family. At some point, we have to just look in the mirror and go, dude, I can only control the guy in the mirror >> and everything can't just happen to us.

You have to start happening to your life. Otherwise, you're going to be right back here next week.

>> True. >> Yeah. So, that's that's current order of business. Just to recap, you're you're making a top 10 list of everything in a three mile radius, and you're going there.

You guys are literally hitting the pavement and going to apply everywhere. Then, you're hitting up these churches. then you're circling back. I would wait after you've done those three thing those two things.

Then I'd circle back to the hotel and say, "Here's what's happened to us and here's what I did today to correct it." But just so you know, it's probably going to take a couple of weeks for this to pan out. Can I pay you the rent at the end of the month instead of at the end of this week? And that's, you know, hopefully going to be your savings grace here, guys.

Truly, truly. >> Stay warm. Stay fed. Four walls, man.

That's all you need to cover right now. Don't worry about the credit cards right now. We'll get there.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching specifically for your situation that's going to help you free up more money and work the pl the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every single day in your pocket, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. So start every de every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play today. Alrighty then. Let's

go to Gwyn who's in Lynchburg, Virginia.

Gwyn, you're up.

Um, so my question is about medical debt and who I can contact to potentially get

this taken care of.

>> What kind of medical debt? Like how long is how old is it?

>> So um, our son turned two in October.

Um, he was born um, premature.

>> What's the total medical debt?

>> Um, Sorry, you're breaking up on us, Gwen.

>> Can you speak clearly into your phone?

>> Can you hear me? >> Yes.

>> Okay. So, um, we have two different totals from the same hospital. Okay.

>> The first one is almost $6,000

and the second one is right at 17,000.

>> Okay. Wow. My goodness. >> Do you guys have insurance?

>> We do. Um, and we had it ever since he

was born, which is my confusion.

>> Okay. So, you're saying it didn't get run through insurance properly or what happened?

>> Yes. Um, and the hospital won't meet with us um to figure out where the confusion happened and

it's been over a year. So, this technically isn't their responsible. it.

>> They've sent it to collection.

>> Have you Have you tried resubmitting the claims through your insurance?

>> I have. Um, but we're running into the issue of it being over a year old.

>> At what point did you try resubmitting the claims >> because they come in pretty soon after the fact?

>> Well, we were in the NICU for um over 3 months. Okay. >> So, when they didn't bill any of it

until after we were out of the NICU >> and we didn't start receiving like the

itemized bills until probably October um which was close to that year mark already, >> okay, >> from all the hospital bills because it took them a while to run everything.

>> Well, even if it's in collections, you can still dispute it. It's not stuck at that charge. And so, you have the right to dispute it. You can send a certified dispute letter to the collection agency, not just a hospital. And when it's formally disputed, you actually write them a letter. They have to stop collection activity until they can verify it.

>> Okay? >> So, that's your next piece of homework is you write this dispute letter, send it to the collection agency, and after

verification, then you can negotiate.

And you can ask for the patient advocate or the billing supervisor. Those are the people you want to get in touch with. The front desk people cannot help you.

And so you need to keep pushing to get in touch with them. You don't need to physically sit down with them, but you need to get in touch with them, pester them until they go, I got to get Gwen off my back. They're call, she's calling me four times a day trying to get in touch. >> Yeah, >> cuz it sounds like it it truly sounds like some of these didn't even run through insurance or be submitted.

resubmit the claim.

>> And at that point, you can go, hey, I need an itemized bill. Let's rerun that through insurance. And then you'll get a final total, and then you can dispute that with collections, and they can adjust the charge, and you can then settle and pay it off. >> Yeah.

Which is I'm sorry that you're going through that. That's probably the last thing that you want to be going through. You know, you got a preeie to take care of. That's tough.

>> Yeah, super frustrated. Sorry you're going through that, Gwen, but thank you for the call. Uh Mark is in San Diego, California. Hey, Mark. How can we help today? >> Hi, how you doing? Um, I'm just trying to figure out if uh me and my wife are able to buy a house um out here in San Diego. For some background information,

uh, we've already been here 3 years.

We're both military, so we'll be here another three years. Um, but the past 3 years we've been staying in apartments um, and paying about $3,000 a month >> in um, in rent. Mhm.

>> Um and together we make monthly

um about 13,000 together.

>> Okay. >> Um >> what kind of money do you have saved?

>> Yeah. So that that's the thing. Uh we only have like $8,000 um saved right

now. >> Okay. >> Um I'm not sure where all of our money is going. I mean, we do a budget, but I feel like our lifestyle is maybe like

increased or or something cuz it's called lifestyle creep. The more you make, the more you spend. >> Yeah. You got $10,000 going somewhere.

Is do you have any kids?

>> Uh, we don't. It's just me here.

>> Oh, man. Y'all are living.

We do a budget. What does that actually mean?

>> Uh, we actually sit down and um, you know, we go over together. I think maybe most of our money is going like to syncing funds. you know, maybe I'm paranoid about that like for cart maintenance and registration over time.

Um, it's just one example and then maybe like savings uh like as in like trips or I don't know something. >> Okay. Do you guys have any debt right now?

>> We have zero debt. >> Okay. So, your next order of business is stocking up the savings account. You can keep the saving the scing funds. That makes sense. You don't need 17 of them, but if you want to have a car maintenance and repair fund with a reasonable amount in there, that's fine.

But I suspect if I took a look at your bank statement, it would tell a different story of a lot of eating out, a lot of shopping, a lot of just kind of sloppiness around all around.

>> Probably. Yeah. >> But if you got control of this, you guys could stack up cash so fast.

>> I mean, what what would it cost?

>> What What are you the the properties or the condos that you're looking at? What do they cost?

>> Yeah. So, our well, our lease actually ends in May, which is why I'm kind of like looking at this now because I'm trying to figure out whether to, you know, for another year stay in this apartment or move out. I'm looking about $750,000 is about average house out here.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Move out of our apartments. >> So, here's >> into a house. >> Here's the tough part with that. Uh, with your timeline, you told me you've got three more years in this location.

It's hard. And then a year of that's going to be spent saving for this down payment, which puts you kind of at a two-year horizon. I'm not sure that I would get into that situation that you're going to have to turn around and move right back out and try to sell that place.

>> Is it is it guaranteed that in three years you're moving >> or you'll be relocated? >> It's It's not guaranteed because like I said, we can get another three three years here probably if we like if we

really work to get it. we could probably honestly get it. And I feel like the past three years, I've been throwing my life away uh at with just paying rent.

And I feel like I'm >> You're not throwing anything away. You're buying patience here, Mark. Cuz here's the truth. How are you going to afford a $750,000 home four months from now?

>> What was I see on the screen it says VA loan? >> Mhm. >> Well, is that your question?

>> Oh, were you going to try to put like nothing down?

>> Correct. Exactly. >> Okay. Let let's play that out. Uh nothing down. >> I'll put I'll put let's say $5,000 down.

Your payment would be about $7,300 a month. >> Mhm. >> Now rent looks like a deal, doesn't it?

>> That's true. >> So you're not throwing away money on rent. It's actually a better deal for you right now because of your where you're living and how much money you guys have to just stay put and renew that lease and keep getting the income up, keep stacking cash away. The truth is for your first home to buy an $800,000 home, it doesn't make sense.

>> No, that's you're level jumping >> and you would need like $400,000 down to make it make sense even with your incredible incomes.

>> Now, let me ask you this, cuz in many ways, the idea of being relocating could be a blessing for you guys. You could get to a less expensive area. Would your pay remain the same? Let's pretend you got stationed elsewhere, maybe somewhere up north. It maybe a little uh less expensive cost of living. Would your pay remain the same?

>> Uh, no. It would it would probably uh decrease um dorically and then that's where we would like rent out the house or sell it cuz everyone down here is all about, you know, >> you're going to lose money on that deal.

>> If I were you, I would spend this time.

You've got 3 years with a great income.

You've got an extra $10,000 a month after you've paid rent. If you guys really get on a true budget, we'll make sure you get on an every dollar budget.

This could be the time that you guys are stacking up so that if and when you do get relocated, then you'll be ready to actually put down some roots and buy something that makes sense that's within your price range.

If you've been paying off debt, working the plan, and have reached baby step 4 or beyond, you've done the hardest part.

Now it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027.

Join all the Ramsay personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosml,

Jamaica, and Grand Cayman. Cabin sold out last time, and they will again. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramseysolutions.com/events.

That's ramseysolutions.com/events.

All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yrefi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment so you can get back on the baby steps and start making progress. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Bobby in New Mexico. My wife and I are in our 70s and we are retired. We have no debt. We have a little over 300,000 in retirement funds and our home is worth about $450,000.

Between social security and investment income, we make about 70 grand per year.

I'm trying to eliminate as many expenses as possible from our budget. And my question is regarding our term life policies. We are paying $225 per month

for two policies with $250 grand and $500,000 payouts. I want to cancel them, but my wife wants to keep them. Our kids are all doing well and don't need any financial help. What should we do?

>> I wonder how much is left on the term?

>> That's a good question. Is it like one year left or is there 10 years left?

>> But $225 a month, I mean, that's sizable. And you know, term life, it's going to get more expensive as you get older. You take out a policy at 60, it's a lot more expensive than if you did it at 30. So the the point of term life

insurance is to replace your income if something were to happen to you to cover those that are dependent on you. And so the fact that you guys have social security and investment income that covers you without needing to work that gives me a little bit of peace if you wanted to cancel them. >> That's true. >> Now is this thing burning a hole in your pocket at 200 bucks a month?

It's not the thing that's tanking you. And so I think so. Yeah. if it's not a big part of your budget and it helps your wife sleep better at night knowing that you know she's covered.

there's not a whole lot of time left.

Hopefully you live to be in your 90s but Lord Lord only knows when you could go and so >> I think the piece is how much time is left. That's the big crux on this.

>> Yeah. cuz I'd be I'd be inclined to keep it because at 70,000 a year with no payments, I can't see 225 breaking you.

>> Yeah. Two grand out of that to cover these policies is not a huge deal breaker. So, I would personally hold off on cancing them. Uh it's it's a good deal right now for you as far as the payout versus what you're paying per year. and in your 70s, I would also look at your health and go, "Hey, realistically, how long do you think we'll live barring any kind of crazy accident, God forbid?" And so, um, I'm glad you guys have Term Life. That's awesome. And I would definitely pause on

this because your wife wants to keep it and because of your age and because of how small of a portion it is of your life as it stands. >> Yeah. And I could see with only 300,000 in retirement, her wanting the extra

500,000 if something should happen to him. I could see that being a safety valve for sure. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'd probably say the same thing.

Keep it. >> Yeah. I actually was just looking at I was on uh Xander's website getting quotes today to add another policy and it was shocking how affordable it is, especially as you're younger. I'm, you know, 36 >> and I was looking I was just clicking around and I went, "Okay, let's say you wanted a million-doll policy." Well, for a 10year million- dollar policy, it was like 26 bucks.

You bump it up to 15, it goes up a little bit.

it would be it would be more expensive later on. So they just take the average and go your payment is this. That's a level term life policy. And we always recommend if anyone depends on your income, you need a term life policy that's worth 10 to 12 times your annual income.

So you make $100,000, you need a million to 1.2 million in term life. And a 15 to 20-year term is what you're looking at, especially because you're following the baby steps. That's right. So, you're house is going to be paid off by then.

You've been investing for years. So, if you need a policy, you probably do.

>> Yeah. And to be sure, the point is to get to the point where you're self-insured and you don't need these anymore. Like I said, in their case, they seems like they're on the line with the $300,000 nest egg. I would love if they had three million.

>> Yeah. Listen, if they had 700, I'd feel a lot better about them cancing that.

So, that's what you're that's the whole picture of this, guys. All right, let's go to the next thing. We've got Patricia. She's in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Patricia.

Patricia, >> are you there? It >> was a good effort. >> It was a good effort. >> Was she on mute? Maybe. I always wonder.

>> I'll come back to you later, Patricia.

>> Okay, we'll get there. >> All right. Instead, let's go to John.

He's in Los Angeles, California. John, are you there?

Yep, I'm here. >> What's up, John? How can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I'm looking to get a new car.

Um, my car is getting older and I'm having a lot of issues with, you know, the engine and stuff, so I've been spending a lot of money to keep it running. Uh, I drive a lot for work and I'm trying to rationalize getting a car

for 30,000 versus getting one for 15.

Um, but I feel like I'm in my car a lot, so I want to love what I drive. And um, financially I've been preparing for this moment for a long time. So I I think I can. >> So you have the cash for 30,000. You have 30,000 cash.

>> Yeah, I can put 30,000 up.

>> Interesting. What do you earn? What's your income?

>> I make 85,000 a year. Um, but I'm like

very meticulous with how I spend my money, where it's going. Um, and I have

my emergency funds, investments. So, I I think uh if I can get to that number, that would be okay. Yeah. >> But I wanted to. >> And you have no debt?

>> No debt, >> man. Way to go. How old are you?

>> 26. >> Goodness gracious. >> Good job. Way to go. >> I'm very impressed. >> I tell you what, we have some folks calling in at 26, and I'm praying for them. But you're >> very rarely have I green lit a 26-year-old buying a $30,000 car. And you, sir, I have checked all my boxes.

You're paying cash. It's no more than half your annual income and you've got no debt and an emergency fund in place.

You're investing for the future. And so, here's what you need to know about buying a $30,000 car that you use for work. You are going to drive this thing into the ground and depre depreciation is going to hit it so hard. This car is going to be worth 15 grand from now.

That's what you need to be prepared for.

And that's okay because you're paying cash. You can't be underwater on a car you paid cash for. Just know that you need to ride this thing out. The longer you drive it, the better of a deal it is.

>> Yeah, that's the plan. I mean, it's a it's a Honda Civic hybrid, so I I mean >> Oh, yes, my man.

>> That is a fiscally responsible 26-year-old. >> Yeah, it is. Good for you, my guy. I love it. I I have nothing more to add. I mean, I would go I would go drop that cash today. >> Maybe an upgrade to the Accord. A little roomier. Who knows? Get crazy.

>> I don't know. the the I there's a Honda

Accord person. It's not me.

>> I'm not a car person. I don't feel this is controversial. You can drop it in the comments. I don't feel safe in a car. I

think I've always been in an SUV. And so when I get in a car, I'm like number one, I feel so close to the ground >> and it feels so small. I just feel like if somebody hits me, it's curtains for me. >> Oh wow. That's dark. I will say my dream

car, this was during CO and I wanted to upgrade from my09 Civic and I was looking at an Accord hybrid >> that was like a 2018. This is during co 2 years old, three years old.

>> I could not find one for under $30,000 cuz remember how expensive cars were.

>> That's right. Used cars particularly.

Yeah. >> And so I gave up. I gave up on car shopping for a little bit and then I fell into a very old Tesla >> that that's I still have on my person.

>> It gets the job done. >> It gets the job done. >> Oh my goodness gracious. I He's thinking hybrid fuel efficiency, no issues.

That's a smart man. >> I love that. Okay, going back to our questions from social media. I like this. It says, let's see. Let's go to Michael. H, let's do that. Let's go to Sarah from Facebook. Our 16-year-old son just graduated college and has his first job. He's too young for their 401k, so

what would be some good options for him to invest in other than high yield savings? Wow, what an impressive man.

>> He's so young, he can't even contribute to the 401k. >> Well, the fact that a 16-year-old has a job at a place with a 401k tells me big boy stuff. So, here's the good news. Uh, you can always invest into a Roth IRA as

long as he has earned income. He can put up to that much in a Roth IRA. And the limits this year, I believe, are 7,500.

>> That's a lot of money. Yeah. And so if he makes at least $7,500 this year, he can put $7,500 into a Roth IRA, which means after tax money, he's not going to get a deduction for it, but then it grows taxfree for the rest of his life.

And let me tell you, you can pop this into an investment calculator. 16 years old, $7,500 one time at 66. It would

blow your mind how many hundreds of thousands of dollars that turns into with you out without you lifting a finger. >> That's right, man. This kid's a genius.

16 years old, graduating from college with his first job in a 401k.

>> You raised him right. Woo! I'll >> tell you that much. >> Gosh, I'm feeling behind in life.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's rammissysolutions.com/realestate.

Our scripture and quote of the day, Ecclesiastes 4:9-10. Two are better than one because they have a good return for their work. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them. M Henry Ford said, "Obstacles

are those things you see when you take your eyes off the goal." Interesting, man. I was on that Ecclesiastes that I pity somebody who >> I wanted to give you I pity the fool.

>> I pity the fool. That's a Mr. T reference for anybody who doesn't know about that >> throwback. >> All right, Stephen in Los Angeles, California. I bet he knows who Mr. T is.

What's up, Stephen?

>> Hey, good afternoon, guys. What's going on? How can we help Stephen? Uh, >> yeah, my question is uh you know, I'm in the process of selling my business and uh just at the same time, my wife got a uh well, the company that she works for pull out of California and is trying to get us to relocate to Texas.

>> Oh. Um I uh

I own my business here for a couple years and I support my parents here. We I owe both the house my parents and our primary resident in California. So my main question is uh you know watch Phil and I and about you guys opinion um should I should we stay and take the sirens or should we just pursue I don't know fulfillment of life and pursue career

which is seems to be in a in a pretty good upward tra trajectory.

>> Interesting. >> Are you excited about it?

>> Well we just don't know what to do. It's it's a big dilemma for us because you know we we have all our roots and family here in California. it'll be pretty hard to, you know, to to to leave everything and and just move to another state.

>> Is there a big um is there anything

financially that would make it a really great move?

>> You know, I I don't think so. I I've

I've invested since I was young. Uh I'm uh I'm about to turn 40. So, uh uh I

have pretty healthy savings account.

It's more of a whether you want to just because I have no plans after I sell my business. Uh, and I don't want to say like I want to stay in California because of the weather. >> Do you plan on selling it soon?

>> Yeah, it's already it's already in process. >> Oh, okay. And what are you going to make from that?

>> Uh, probably like 1.5 million.

>> Okay. And what do you already have saved?

>> I, you know, like I said, I started young investing, so I I probably have

about 4 million in in my uh savings

account. >> Dude, way to go. >> Yeah. Excellent. >> This gives you flexibility.

So, stock 41k, IRA, Roth, you name it.

Um, yeah.

>> And you're not sure what you'll do after this? Like, you haven't you don't have your eye on the next thing?

>> I have no plans.

>> I have no plans. And like I said, I'm I'm not even 40 and I and I don't want to just like quit and do nothing.

>> Sure. >> You you have too much to contribute to society with a guy as sharper as you.

So, I hope you and I'm sure you will move on to something awesome next. But the the big question is, you know, the family part, you know, is she going to make more there's going to be more stability, long-term opportunity, lower cost of living, all of that, better quality of life. Is that going to be true in Texas?

>> I don't know. Um, that's the part that we're trying to figure out. She she's a very very career oriented person. Like, you know, fulfillment of life comes comes with having a good career. >> Well, I'm sure they're going to cover relocation costs, right?

>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. >> And what's her pay raise going to be?

Uh, she makes about 150 right now and

she's probably going to make like around 170 by >> with no state income tax in Texas.

>> Have you ever been to Texas?

>> Uh, just uh, you know, passing through,

not not really living there.

>> I would before you I mean, have you lived your whole life in California?

>> No, I moved around all over. Georgia, Florida. >> Oh, okay. Good, good, good, good. Okay, that's good. Because I was going to say part of moving is just new culture, just everything feels different. So I if you have the opportunity to spend more time in the place that you're thinking of moving, I would just to see do we like this place? Do we get a feel for it?

Maybe take a vacation to the area that

uh part of town where she might be working that you might be moving to and just see do do we like it here? Do we get a good vibe? Um, it seems like you have the money and the flexibility to do something like that and just get a sense of where it might be.

>> Um, what >> financially you can afford to do pretty much anything. You're not going to be spooked by, oh, the property taxes are higher. You guys can stomach anything financially. And I'm guessing it's actually going to lower your expenses while raising your income.

>> And so that part I'm not concerned about. It's more the lifestyle and quality of life. So I would go there, visit, look at the houses, look at where you would likely live and get a sense of what life would be like there. Are there kids in the mix?

>> Yeah, we got two kids. >> How old are they?

>> They're three and seven.

>> Okay. So, they're they're portable. They They're not locked in anywhere. What did you mean before when you said you're supporting your family, like extended family? >> My My parents uh my parents, they're they're older. Um they uh uh the house

that they live in is it's uh I pay for it. uh that basically just pay for their

living expenses until you know their uh social security kicks in. >> Okay. And do you foresee needing to be close by or is it literally you're just writing checks? >> Well, they they they they express uh that if we move they want to move with us. >> Okay. >> Not in the same house, but like you know they they probably going to sell their house and you know buy >> So now the whole family thing they're portable too.

>> Yeah. That's the thing. Like it's just it's so much >> that we have to deal with by moving, you know, uprooting the whole family there.

I just don't know if it's worth it. >> Your money is going to go so much further though in Texas.

>> That's why the company's moving out there. >> Yeah. So, >> Oh, yeah. >> Leaving in droves. >> Yeah.

>> I'm just wondering what is the alternative here? Let's say she takes the severance and then what?

>> Mhm. >> And then she just looks for a new >> find a job here. >> Mhm. Localist. >> Okay. Well, here's the truth. She could do that and you guys would also be fine.

>> There's no wrong answer. >> And so I would really rely on her own excitement because everyone can be moved and there's nothing that can't be reversed. Let's say she hates it with a burning undying passion and you guys all go, "This is terrible." Well, you could pack up and move back >> and Yeah, there's going to be a little cost and like emotionally it's going to be a little exhausting. You could go back to California 3 years from now and it'll still be there.

>> Just keep more expensive.

>> Yeah. Right. I mean, if you want to keep it with with your finances, I don't love the idea of being a long-term landlord, but if you're like, "Hey, let's try it out before we sell the house." >> You can you can pay cash for the house in Texas. Leave yours there and still be okay. >> And longterm, if Texas is it, sell the house in California.

>> Mhm. >> So, personally, I'm on team. Do the adventure. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because you can't do it later. the kids are in high school and now they're >> the fact that it's it's sorry talking over here but it can't be the fact that it's like 75 here while the rest of the country is freezing you know right now >> true that now that's why I said about visiting and maybe it's like when you go look at a house you see it in the sun in the sunlight but you also want to look at it on a rainy day you want to go to the neighborhood when it's dark outside you want to see it at its worst so if I were you I love George's idea of kind of doing a trial run go down there for a period of time first off just to even see and then if you're like maybe we do this.

Maybe she accepts the job. You guys go down there.

You keep the place in California. You keep the parents in California. >> Rent a sweet house in Texas for 6 months or a year. And that way it gives you some buying time instead of going, "Oh my gosh, we just got into this house." >> Yeah, I really like that idea.

So, if that doesn't if that doesn't fire you up, >> then that would kind of make me think maybe we don't want to do this because to be able to try something and not still not be like, "Ooh, >> well, I'd rather Here's my thing. I'd rather regret doing it and saying we tried than not doing it and her going, "Man, what would that have been like? I just stayed with the company. I have all of this, you know, built up in this company.

I get to move. I get this upgrade and pay.

>> Kids are very resilient. I would have before when I it sounded like he had been rooted in California for longer and I was like, "Oh man, this could be tough." But after he said he traveled around a lot, that does create kind of just a feeling of, oh, I can go anywhere. I can make friends. Like home is where the heart is.

But if you're a person who's lived in the same place for maybe 15 or 20 years, moving can actually be very tough cuz it's it's it's communities, it's creature comforts, all that stuff. >> Their level of net worth and income. I mean, they could charter a private jet to go visit California five times a year and still be okay. >> That's right.

They totally could. And living in Texas, like I said before, that money is going to like duplicate itself. Their the their cost of living is going to allow them to have way more for their money, which is definitely >> he can take the kids to California and wife can work for a week or two and he can just take the kids and take a little trip. >> I don't know.

She might be like, "Hello out there. >> You left me. >> Come back and get me." >> That's so fun. >> Oh gosh.

When Sam and I moved from South Florida here to Tennessee, it was like it's not easy. It's a It's a It's an adventure for sure. You have to have a spirit of adventure, which I think is a good thing because that's where opportunity is. Amen.

It's out there in the adventure, people. All right. Thanks for hanging out with us, George and I.

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## 241. When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. >> [music] >> We're taking your calls at88255225.

Don't be scared. Pick up the phone, type in [music] those numbers, and join the conversation. Thomas kicks us off in Oregon. What's up, Thomas?

>> Are you with us? >> Uh, yes, I am here. Can you hear me?

>> Yes.

>> Um, hi. Um, my situation is rather

complex. Um my I'm a 24 year old um from

Oregon who's doing college, have two years left um for a business administration degree. My my girlfriend

is five weeks pregnant. I found out about it three three days ago. Um and to

be honest, we're both rather scared. Um I have no outstanding debts. Um I don't know if she has any outstanding debts, but I don't believe so. Um however, she is not in the best financial situation.

just overall because of living expenses and other things. >> Wow. >> Um >> well that's scary. Dude, you have a right to be rightfully spooked by all this. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are the father.

>> Yes, I am the father. >> Okay. How long have you been together?

>> Um we've been together around a year. Um

we live we don't live together unfortunately. So, this is even more scary because we need to find a way to live, find a way to move together if we decide to have the child.

>> Okay. Um, let's let's roll back once one

one moment before we even think about that part. Do was this somebody that you plan to be with or >> is this something that's like, oh, dang, now I definitely feel like I am stuck.

>> This is someone that uh I was considering marrying. Um, her and I both

get along amazingly. We have never had a fight in the entire time we've ever been together. >> I mean, it's been 12 months, man. It's not like period and everything.

>> Okay. So, it was somebody that you were thinking about a future with.

>> Um, she is she's the one that I was thinking about having a future with. >> Okay. That that that is good because that way all of what I would hate is for you to just be thinking, "Oh, I got this girl pregnant. Now I'm stuck." and now I have to move in, now I have to get married and be forced into something that you never saw a future with that person, but it's good that you did see a future with her because now she's having your baby. Um, okay. So, you've got two

years left of college. What about her?

>> Um, she is currently out of she's not in

college and nor is employed. And that's I think the biggest scary thing for me is she's going to have to find a job. I have to I have to grow up really fast now. And I've never worked a full-time

job because I've just been so focused on school all my life.

>> So, you're 24. >> Really scary.

>> Yes. >> Did you take some gap years?

>> Um, there was one gap year, but it was a lot of jumping around unsure of what uh career I wanted to go into because of the fact that uh our world is changing so fast. >> Okay. Okay. So, why business administration?

>> Um, I chose business because my psychology was that it would be like just so generalized and so useful wherever I go that I could use it. Um,

and I chose it because of that reason.

>> Okay. So, what's on the other side of this? Let's say you do finish the degree. What kind of job are you looking for?

>> That's kind of the more difficult thing.

I personally am really interested in architecture and I was also interested in psychology. However, I've had family members push back against that and say, "No, you should be doing this or you should be doing that." >> Which is also why I've been so unsure.

>> Well, here's the truth. You might need to put a pause on education and just get to work doing anything.

>> Yes. >> And the truth is, you could probably make as much now as you would with a business administration degree on the other side. The degree could help you long term. But in the short term now we just got to stack cash and get ready for this new life of being a dad and you know does she have uh insurance? Is she covered through her parents?

>> I believe so. Yes. >> That would be one piece of homework to figure out is the medical side and then child care side. Yes, >> she's unemployed. She's going to need to get to work until she can no longer work and baby's about to be here to try to at least, you know, mitigate some of the financial damage here. And then is it is she going to just stay home with the baby >> and then are you going to be near her?

How close are you guys right now as far as distance?

>> I am around 3 hours.

>> Good. >> 3 hours. Oh gosh. Okay. So now I understand a little bit more what you were speaking about. Um is there since

she's kind of unattached in the way of school or work, is she able to come closer to where you are? Would she be willing to do that?

Um she's been currently working towards that. Um she has been trying to find a

way to move out. Um where she currently lives. Where does she live? Is she with the financial part?

>> Um she's living in a in a home with

other roommates is what she's living in.

>> How is she affording it?

Um, I think she it's I think it's very personal, but I think it's like something regarding she's a case manager and that kind of thing.

>> Okay. So, she's just getting government assistance. >> Yeah, she she Yeah, I I think so. She's getting quite a bit of assistance.

>> Okay. Okay. How old is she?

>> She's 21.

>> Does she have family nearby that you guys could move closer to to have some help? And would they be willing to help?

Have you had that conversation?

>> Um, her family is not very inner life.

My family, unfortunately, is six hours south of me.

>> Got it. Okay. So, thing number one on the list, I think, is you guys need to get together and you need to create a plan for you guys living near each

other, especially if you think the plan might be to get married. So, that's thing one. Thing two is verifying the whole insurance business because if she's estranged from her parents, maybe she's not. and if she's getting government assistance, there's a lot there. And then the third thing I would do is once you figure out the living situation, I would start I would find a

local church and I would start premarital counseling just to see if you

guys are a fit. Like if you could do a marriage together, if you could >> compatible. Yes, I understand.

>> Yeah. I I I would have a hard time saying get married immediately cuz I just I'm not hearing in your voice and

and even in your vicinity that that was

the plan per se. This I don't know if I'm right or wrong on that, but I don't want to just say to you go get married.

Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Given what you told us. >> And then what is your financial picture?

Do you have any savings right now? Do you have any debt?

Um, I have I have a large college fund that was set up by my family. Um, I I

come a rather from a rather privileged background. Um, my I believe my college

fund is technically it's owned by me.

Um, it's around like 50 to 70,000

maybe up to 90 at the most.

>> Okay. But >> what about other cash? >> Um, other cash not a lot unfortunately.

>> Okay. Well, you hey, you've got a a 9-month runway here. And so, I would heavily consider pausing school, moving closer together, and you getting to work full-time plus a side job, her taking on a full-time job until baby's close to being here. And then you just save up cash, and then we'll figure out the debt later.

But right now, you're in stor mode, stocking up cash, and figuring out the life plan. Then we'll figure out the financial plan. >> And don't do anything really crazy until the doctor says. A lot of times people don't even tell people that they're pregnant until like what around the 12 week mark.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

[music]

Sarah is in Washington. Up next, Sarah, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> I'm in a bit of an unusual position where my parents did uh well in life and

now at the end of their lives, my mom is facing some decisions with life insurance or an estate strategy plan.

>> Okay. >> Her team wants her to buy $500,000

a year in life insurance. And I'm trying

to convince her that there are better products available. >> Who encourages us? >> She's a short. >> She has a financial planning team.

>> Okay. How big is her estate? What is their net worth?

>> Probably about 60 million.

>> Okay.

Now, there are at this level there are,

you know, there's life insurance strategies that a lot of advisers use to protect the estate. So, I don't want to just go in going, "This is a ripoff.

They're trying to screw her over." That may not be the case here. Uh when we talk about life insurance, we're talking about, you know, whole life policies for the average everyday American when they're getting ripped off at 600 bucks a month. So when a when you have a $60 million estate, there are situations where paying a half a million a year to protect, you know, for a $20 million savings could be worth it.

>> So have you got any intel from the adviser >> or from your parents? >> A couple policies. Um, she has a 1.5

million whole life policy that's 100k a year and then two $10

million policies that are each um 100k a year and they

want her to buy an additional policy for an additional 300k a year.

>> Goodness gracious.

>> It just seems >> it feels like now they're just grabbing commissions left and right. And so >> Right. Right. >> That's where I go. This is this is not as black and white as it may seem, but if you are getting red flags, I would have the conversation with them. Are they willing to hear you out?

>> Yes. Um, but when they, for example, I'd like her to get rid of the whole life policy. Their argument is that in seven

years it pays for itself. So why would she not keep paying for a few more years

until it's paying for herself, paying for itself? I don't have a very good >> How does it pay for itself?

>> The paid up additions event essentially

uh get reinvested and then the investment inside the whole life policy pays the premiums.

>> Yikes. Well, that plan can implode pretty quickly with how high these premiums are and how awful the returns

are. And so I if I'm in your shoes, I would contact a a third party adviser on

your own and get their take.

And then at least you have some >> to go, "Hey, I talked to an adviser.

Here's what they said about this. Will you hear them out?" And maybe they go, "Yep, I understand what they're doing.

All good." Or they go, "No, here's what I think is happening and here's the tweaks to make." >> Okay, I've gone that route and that has given me some ammo to push back on her team. Um, but in a lot a lot of ways it feels like they're operating on her fear that she's not going to take good care of her heirs, which clearly she's going to. Yeah. Beyond anybody's wildest imaginations, it seems more like a Oh,

go ahead. >> I was going to say I would just look into I I'd be really interested in finding out what type of whole life policies those were. Um, there are some instances where if it's like a variable life, it could be something that is available to her. I don't know if this many policies would be it, but that's what I'd be looking into if I were you.

Um, they can be utilized by ultra wealthy people, folks who have no debt and have really, really high net worths, especially if they've just maxed out all of their other opportunities. So, I

would really go out into this with a spirit of curiosity versus these people

are trying to screw my mom. You might be right, but it also could just be something that's gone outside of your purview of knowledge.

Yeah, it definitely is well outside of my knowledge base. Um, and I just feel like I'm it's a one of the things I love about the Ramsay program is that the goal is to live like no one else. And now they're facing that. Hopefully Dave develops another segment where people can talk about these kinds of issues cuz we're hoping that lots and lots of people get to this place, right?

I know that's not the reality and it seems like a really weird problem to have, but >> it's not a Yeah. >> You know, I want to look out for my mom. >> Absolutely. you and and she's trying to steward this wealth as best as she can and using pros and experts to do it.

They're they're happily going to write giant checks uh which gives them big commissions. And so that's where I want to know are these bad apples or are they just doing something that is just an extremely expensive way to transfer the inheritance? And that's that's the big question mark because a state tax could be 40%. And so I understand that you don't want to pay 40% of 60 million when you pass away. I don't want to give the government any more than I already have.

>> Yeah. No, definitely. >> And so there are things like an irrevocable life insurance trust or eyelets they're called. Um where you know the trust owns the life insurance policy so the death benefit is not counted as part of your estate. So that's probably what they're trying to do >> is that when she passes there's millions and millions protected from the government which means less taxes to pay.

too powerful.

Yeah, absolutely. And you can contact Smartves Veester Pro on our website.

Just jump on to ramseyolutions.com and say, "Hey, I need a consultation. My mom's working with this adviser. Here's the kinds of things they've been telling her. Can you help me understand this more?" Number one, and then help me understand, is there a better way to do this?

And are they taking her to the cleaners or not? And uh our Smart Vster pros are they're going to have the heart of a teacher explain it to you and uh no BS. They're gonna they're going to just tell it to you like it is. Thanks for the call.

Malcolm is up next in North Carolina.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. How are you? >> I was uh calling in. I'm doing great. Uh I was calling in about a question that I had regarding um my income drastically

decreasing. Um I recently joined the

military which um has required my wife

almost to have to be a stay at home mom.

She can no longer really do her job as she was doing before. So, our income went from around uh I would say

$180,000ish down to $31,000.

>> Oh gosh. >> Um and >> yeah, >> why did you make that choice? Why did you guys make that series of choices?

>> I wanted to go into the military. My wife has always been very supportive of me and uh I recently sold a business so I kind of was a little lost. So, I didn't have anything to do uh kind of.

So, I've kind of always wanted to join the military. So, I took a leap and my wife uh joined it. We didn't necessarily think that well through it, I don't think. Uh but I'm in it now. And what was the luckily >> what's the end point? Was there like a point where you said, "Hey, our our income's going to go down for a small period of time and then XYZ is going to happen." Like what what's the end point?

So once I finish my training uh which is going to take about two years, I'll receive my reinlistment bonus which was my enlistment bonus which was about $45ish,000.

Uh my income should jump to around $100,000 uh in the military. Um and then

I also if I choose to reinlist, I believe our uh reinlistment category is around 90,000. So we did mention that um I just didn't realize how long the training would last before I started making um a better income. Um, and it

because we don't really we've been very fortunate uh financially, so we didn't necessarily I didn't really think about like our lifestyle changing um significantly. And

yeah. >> Are you going to be on base? Are you going to have base housing?

>> Yeah. So, we're going to they're going to be on base housing. She will be moving with me within the next month.

>> Okay. So, that helps. You're not going to have that expense. I mean, the way that you live on $31,000 is that you live on $31,000. So, you've got to get your head around what that means. And that's going to be a humongous hu

>> whatever your life was before is no longer. This new chapter is going to look like you're broke college students.

>> That's the in interesting name thing that we're having right now because we do have a decent amount in investments and savings, especially after selling the business. >> Okay, good. My wife is kind of wanting to live the same lifestyle uh recently.

The reason this popped

>> that's not an option basically.

>> Well, here's the thing. Here's what I want to tell you before we go to break.

Number one, if you have money in retirement, do not touch it. Do not move it. That money is locked in. [music] And if you have savings right now, how much savings do you have real quick?

>> So, we do the regular 3 to 6 months. So, currently we don't have that much.

>> And that's what that's there for. That's only there for emergencies. that is not there to uh skim off of every single

month to have the lifestyle you want.

[music] So, you guys made a very clear choice. Sounds like you didn't think through it very well, but like you said, you're here now. So, you've got to live that life and be thankful that you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses and a little money uh saved for retirement on down the line.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

Christian is up next in Fort Lauderdale.

>> [music] >> What's going on, Christian?

>> Hi, George. Hi, Jay. Thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> So, uh, my dad was recently, uh, had a

surgery that went bad. Um, he had three strokes during surgery. So, I now have power of attorney over him and I'm trying to sort out his finances. Um, I

just pulled a credit score and I discovered that he's $90,000 in credit card debt and obviously not working. Um, he's now just on workman's comp insurance. Um, so he has limited income

that uh he'll never be able to pay back the $90,000 in credit card debt. And I was calling to get some advice.

>> Man, >> I'm so sorry. That sounds horrible.

What's his what's his prognosis?

>> So, um, he had three strokes. He was blind about a week ago after the strokes, but he's currently able to see um, and talk, but not walk. Um, it looks

like he'll be in rehab for about three months minimum. Um, and then we'll see.

He's gotten much better in the past week, so we're we're hopeful.

>> Mhm. >> Um, but for now, he's going to be in the hospital for quite some time. >> Wow. How old is he?

>> 65. >> Okay. Does he have any other debts outside of the credit cards?

>> Well, I found about 86,000 in credit card debt and a $5,000 medical debt in collections along with a mortgage.

>> Okay. And is anyone living in that house right now?

No, it's an empty condo.

>> Okay. Is it paid? I mean, who who's paying the mortgage right now?

>> So, this just happened in the past week.

Um, I just took over his finances. So, I

will be paying the mortgage out of the money that he's making from workman's comp insurance. >> Okay. >> Um, >> that's enough to cover it. >> But that >> Yeah, it's enough to cover the mortgage.

And he's also laid on HOA fees. So, they're in the process of suing him. Um, but I was able to make a payment plan with them that they've agreed to.

>> Okay. >> The lawsuit and not >> and you're paying that payment plan out of your money.

>> Um, currently I have not made a single payment yet, but I'm intending on paying it out of his money. >> Okay. Does he have money? >> Account is current >> savings retirement.

>> No, he might have a 401k, but he has no

money. Um, his account's currently overdrawn by $50, but he has $5,000 a

month coming in from workman's comp insurance. >> Wow. >> So, um, what does he owe on the condo?

What's [laughter] it worth?

>> It's worth about 200 and he owes 204.

>> Oh, boy. Um, >> yeah. >> And what's the plan? What do you foresee the Is it just him? Is he married?

>> Um, not married. Okay. Single. Um, he

has a girlfriend overseas that he sends

money to, but >> Oh, boy. The extent of that.

>> Are you sure this is a real person, Christian? I've heard this story before.

>> Oh, well, unfortunately or fortunately, yeah, she she actually is real.

>> What's the plan when your dad uh gets out of rehabilitation? Is he do you foresee him going back to this Let me put it like this. Do you foresee him living alone or do you foresee a situation where you all have to take care of him out of your place?

>> No, I I foresee him living alone. The workman's comp insurance will stop of course once he's out of the hospital >> and my hope was that he would get some

form of settlement from workman's comp because he was injured on the job which led to this. >> Um, >> and surely he won't be able to go back.

I mean, I'm just assuming you tell me based on what you said, I can't see this guy going back to work in a couple weeks. I don't think so. Okay. I don't think he'll ever work again. >> Okay. Right. So, then there'd be some sort of payout.

>> Yeah, I would assume so. And then he'll start collecting social security at that time. I I would believe.

>> Okay. Do you think Do you know Do you have any idea what his social security would be at this point if he started to draw it now? [snorts] >> I don't know. I don't know.

>> Okay. That'd be some homework that I'd look into if I were you to know is he

going to go from 5,000 to 2500? What's

he going to go down to? Um, and then figuring out is he going to have the

ability to stay in this condo situation

and really think through what that means for him. Um, what's your financial situation?

>> I'm I'm single. I make great money. I run a company. I mean, I'm not a millionaire, but I make I make enough money to to live on my own and my family. >> And there's no world where he would move in with you where you would become his caretaker?

>> I sure hope not. >> Okay. So, you would, you know, it' be Medicare and try to get him care otherwise. >> Yes. >> So, your homework is to figure out his full expenses and then figure out does he have enough money monthly to pay for that sustainably? And if not, we need to make some really hard choices here and go, "Hey, you need to sell the condo maybe at a loss cuz otherwise it's going to get foreclosed on." >> Yeah. >> And he need is he still sending money overseas as we speak?

>> No, I' i've cut all >> Okay, good. >> expenses off 100%. He has enough money to make the payments that I've arranged for the HOA and pay the mortgage and the electric bill. >> Okay. Um, and my intention is to stop

paying all the credit cards except for American Express and the small local bank because I think they'll be the first ones to come after him. >> Listen, they could try to sue him, but he has nothing >> and it's unse. And so if he died with this, they just write it off. They're not coming after you. >> Nothing's going to h Yeah.

>> Literally, I mean, exactly what George said. They can't come after you. And honestly, even for him, he has nothing

to give. the only thing would have been that condo, but he's getting ready to sell it and there's no money that can come from it. So, in that way, he's sort of >> and they can't take his retirement. So, um I think at this point, it's just trying to minimize the future damage and make sure your four the four walls are covered for him and the debt is a far far away thing that we need to worry about.

>> Y >> you wouldn't you wouldn't file bankruptcy. You would just stop paying everything and then let them come after him. >> I would get current on everything you can. We don't want to in collections if we if we can avoid it.

But the credit cards, you might make minimum payments to keep them off your back if he can afford it out of his checks, but there's no way he's going to pay off 90k at this stage of life, >> right? Um, all the credit cards are current. The mortgage and the HOA are behind. >> That's and that's what we need to flip it.

>> Okay. >> So, that's your focus for him is making sure that we're current. We We're not behind. We're keeping up with the four walls and we'll let's see what income we can get from where and how long this workman's comp's going to last and then what the next steps are. But it's going to be a dayby-day thing. Man, this is a really difficult thing that you've been thrown into. Uh, and you're a good man and a good son for handling it.

>> And should I try to settle these debts with the credit card companies in a year when they inevitably come after him?

>> Well, if you stop paying now, the longer you wait, the more they're willing to settle. And so one year may not be long enough for them to go, "Yeah, we'll take 20 grand instead of 90." >> Eventually they will though. But the truth is he has zero money to give them.

So just let let it play out.

>> Okay? >> It's going to be the same. If you were to file bankruptcy, his credit's going to be completely decimated. It already is, I'm sure. And his days of

>> um you know, getting a great income and

and buying a property are it doesn't seem like that's going to be happening.

So for for him, like George said, four

walls, whatever transportation he might need is really going to be what he has.

>> Okay. >> Unfortunately, >> this is sad. >> Decades of compounded terrible financial decisions and then >> yes, >> you have the health situation on top of all of that which puts all of this just straight to a halt. >> And so there's there's nothing that you can do to undo the decades of bad decisions. All you can do is help him take the right next step and make sure that he's got food, shelter, utilities, and transportation. >> Yeah. What's What's his rent and HOA and everything like that cost every month?

>> Um the mortgage is 12250. The HOA is supposed to be 450, but I've arranged to pay 700 um because he's so far behind on

that. And then he's also about a year behind on alimony to my mom, which is

>> um you know, it is what it is. He doesn't have the money. Is there a >> understanding of that? But >> is there a living situation in his area that's less than $1,700 a month that you could get him into?

>> No. No chance

>> in South Florida. I don't think it would be possible. >> Yeah, you're right. >> And where are you? Look, are you in South Florida as well?

>> I'm in Fort Lauderdale. He's on the west coast of Florida. >> Okay. I'm just wondering, I mean, at this point, does he need to stay there?

Can he move somewhere that is more affordable?

I think he's best to stay there. He does have family there and I'm only 3 hours.

Um, one more question I had if if I have time. >> 5 seconds. >> Um, >> oh, okay. Well, I I wanted to know if I start working on these credit cards if I'm going to be liable for the debt.

>> No, it's not under your name.

>> So, it's not going to pass to you to deal with. So, don't if they try to scare you into it, say you got to pay, they're lying. That's not how the law works. If the debt's in his name, he's got to pay. If you co-signed or you're, you know, you're on that account, then they can come after you. But otherwise, you're safe, man. Best of luck.

[music]

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>> [music] >> Buying or selling your home is a big deal and you [music] want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsay trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden. It's easy. You can compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with.

You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Kayla is in Texas up next. Kayla, welcome to the show. >> Hi, how are you guys today?

>> We're doing great. What's your question today?

way is to utilize the remaining money that my husband and I will have after paying off our debt and putting um money

into an emergency fund. Um, we're about to receive $200,000 from a trust from my

grandparents. um we owe about 30,000 on

the car, so we were going to pay that off and then um put about 30,000 into an

emergency fund. And so we'll have about 140,000 left over. Um so we were wondering like should we put that all towards the house? Should we invest some of that? Um

a quick little add-on is we don't know that we want to stay in this house long term. Uh so we're just trying to figure out the the best way to move forward with that leftover money. Yeah. Well, you're you're speaking very wisely and you're filtering this through the baby steps, which is let's knock out the debt first. Let's make sure we have savings and then we can explore the options from there. Are you guys currently investing?

>> Um, yes. We're into our retirement. My husband is, he puts about 7% in my and

then his employer matches at 3 and a half%. I'm currently not, but my

employer does contribute 11%.

>> Okay. for me. >> So you guys would be in uh baby step 456. You already have a home. You have a mortgage. What's left on that?

>> 320. >> 320. All right. So is the trust

available now?

>> Uh no, it's going to do like the final paperwork. Um the rest of the beneficiaries are signing and then once all that paperwork is finished, then the money will be distributed. So that is expected in the next probably month to 6 weeks. >> Okay. And it is a lump sum. There's no restrictions, taxes, timelines. Like $200,000 will show up.

>> 200,000. Uh my uncle paid all of the

taxes um that were owed on it from like

the capital gains and the interest, you

know, taxes on the interest that was all paid already. So >> the 200,000 that I will be getting is what um is mine.

>> Wow. So tell us about a little bit about the home. You said that you're in this house, but you might not stay. tell us about what your plans are regarding possibly moving and when that would be.

>> Um my husband my husband's currently looking at other opportunities in in other states that we can move closer to where my father is. >> Uhhuh. >> Um and then to think the neighborhood um

just kind of going in a direction that we're not truly happy with. Okay.

>> So, um >> what's the timeline you might want to move?

um anywhere from I would say one to three years. You know, it just depends on like if I head forward to get a job in, you know, six months or you know, we a year we would we would move. Um

there's also some kind of changes going on to maybe turn the neighborhood back

around. Um but I [clears throat] don't know how long that would take to see >> okay >> if it starts moving in the opposite direction. Um, I'm also wondering, would

you be trying to keep the same level of

house? Would you be trying to move up in house if you were to move?

>> House is probably the same level anywhere. I'm I'm happy with with this with this house, you know. Um, it was about 340 when we purchased it.

>> So, you know, we're we're happy with with it. >> What's your household income?

um about 150,000. So we bring home about

868,700 uh after taxes and um deductions I think

with healthcare. >> Fantastic. >> Uh real quick, you said you bought the house for 340 and now you owe 320.

>> Yes. >> And you're worried about the neighborhood going down?

>> Yeah. I just it's

>> um >> I mean if I were in your shoes, if you if you really are talking about a year horizon, I'd probably be inclined to just keep it in a high yield savings account until you want it for a couple of reasons. Number one, >> if you piled it all into the house and just for some reason the house took a long time to sell or it for some reason went down in value, that might make you feel some type of way. Number two, moving is expensive and it's just nice to have cash on hand to make a move.

uh, if I were in your shoes specifically, if you were on a year horizon, I'd keep it in a high yield and wait for the right opportunity, and then when you move, place this house on the market, and you've got your down payment, um, that's readily available for you. >> Yeah, that's the nice part. If it's a short time horizon, that 140 becomes your down payment without needing to sell the house first. And so, that puts you in a better position as a buyer.

But if you're talking three years, put it into the house. It the money's not disappearing. It's just a forced savings plan and it stops you from using that money for other things that might not be as wise.

interest savings alone if you calculate now how much more is going to principal versus interest it would blow your mind.

>> Yeah we we did that it was I think upwards to like the six figure mark. So, >> we have no issue with putting it towards the house. We just weren't sure like >> with us potentially moving like should we hold off just for a little bit and then say, you know, if we haven't moved by the end of the year, then just dump it all into the house.

>> And you can enjoy some of it, too. There's nothing wrong going, hey, you're debtree with an emergency fund. Maybe use some of it for enjoyment and you go on a fun trip. >> I definitely like to hear you say that because I'm I'm definitely a a um

savor. >> Yeah. I think because you're paying off the debt, you're stocking up the emergency fund, it would be good to do something fun with some of this money as well. >> Not a huge amount, but you can take a, you know, $5,000 awesome trip and still have 135 left >> and you can give some of that and then you can save some of that.

And that includes paying down the house. that kind of fits in that category. And so I like this plan overall. I would just kind of keep it loose and put it in a high yield savings account when you have it and just park it at, you know, three and a half percent right now.

We're not trying to make a bunch of money off of this.

>> Awesome. And so would you would you guys think about at all like investing any of it into a mutual fund or >> I probably wouldn't because you are putting plenty of your paychecks aside.

And remember real estate is an investment too. So don't narrow your mind to think that just because it's not in the stock market, it's not it's not being invested. >> If you guys had the house paid off, I'd say absolutely. That's kind of a baby step seven item is to then invest outside of retirement.

And so you guys will get there, no doubt. You'll just use your future income to get there. And this trust is going to help you get rid of that house payment even faster. Then you can invest that amount.

So >> way to go. >> What a blessing. Awesome. Grandparents, >> yeah, that's awesome.

>> It is. It's fant fantastic. And I have one more question if I could. Sure.

So quick. >> We got a minute left. >> Okay. So the the emergency fund um does that count towards like the like maintenance of the house if something were to happen to it or is that just simply you know if one of us were to lose our job then we're recovered until the other person you know get gets another job?

If it's an emergency that if it can go towards household items that are emergencies.

So for instance, there's a storm and you didn't know it. It blew a tree onto your roof. Now you need roof d like roof repair. That would be an emergency.

>> Dishwasher randomly goes out. But if it's just maintenance, just set up a scing fund outside of that and just set it aside. I wouldn't put it with the emergency fund. it gets too convoluted and so you can just set aside, you know, 100 bucks a month, 200 bucks a month, whatever. You know, some people's homes are need a lot more work and more maintenance. So, >> buying new furniture, not an emergency.

>> Yeah, I would just put it in in every dollar. You can Here's what I do. I have a line item and you can mark it as a fund and that way I can save a h 100red bucks a month and at the end of the year I have 1,200 bucks earmarked for the maintenance and repairs on the house or the car or whatever it may be. And that helps me not get spooked when I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what are we going to do?

It's $1,000. You go, "No, we have it." >> I treat the emergency fund like I treat the HSA. >> I never touch it.

>> I will cash flow whatever I can to not touch these monies. >> Well, it's amazing. Once you're not broke anymore, you stop you kind of stop having emergencies. That's true.

>> It just becomes inconveniences that you can cash flow instead of, oh my gosh, what are we going to do? Yes. >> So, it's expensive to be broke. That's for sure. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Emily is up next in Nebraska. What's going on, Emily?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Um,

so I am a stay-at-home mom and I'm trying to get out of an abusive marriage. Um, an emotionally abusive marriage. My husband's basically abandoned us. I've got four small children.

um they're five years old and under and I'm trying to figure out how to create some margin uh hire a lawyer and I'm just trying to figure out what's the next best move to file bankruptcy or take out a second mortgage on the house or something else and I've got all my financial information written down if you want that.

>> Um my family all lives about 3 hours away and they're doing what they can to help me. Um, I live in kind of an unique area where there's not like I can't just sell the house and go rent. There's nothing for rent um near me and jobs are

uh few and far between. >> Is your house in your name?

>> Yes, it's solely in my name. Um, I bought it before we were married.

>> Okay. How long have you been married?

>> Um, since 2018.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

Um, right now I am I'm a disabled

veteran and I'm receiving um disability

benefits of about $2,600 a month.

>> Okay. And then is his income covering

any expenses for you guys or is he kind of cut off access?

>> He's I think he's rerouting his paycheck someplace else. He's a over the road truck driver. He's an owner operator. Um I've done his taxes forever. He'll gross about 225,000 from last year and I was only able to move over 29,000 to help pay household bills. Out of the last 13 months, I've paid um for the entirety of the bills 6

months out of the year. >> Wow. >> Okay. So, he just kind of up and left.

Is that >> He Well, being over the road, he's he's gone a lot, but um he's not called me since September. He's showed up at the house unannounced a couple of times uh for a few days at a time and it's just been weird. >> Like just to crash.

>> Yeah. Like over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Otherwise, he usually parks at a friend's house a couple of hours away. >> Oh gosh. >> I'm sorry that you're going through this. So >> Oh, thank you. >> Tell us more about So you've been covering the bills just out of your money. >> Correct. >> And is there any margin? Sorry, say it

again. Oh, I received a lump sum back payment from the VA a year ago.

>> How much was that?

>> Uh 42,000.

>> Okay. And what did you Has that allowed you to be current? What did that allow you to do? >> Um I was able to I put 6 months worth of

um bills in savings. You know, I I had a cushion of six months. >> Okay. Emergency fund.

>> Correct. And then I paid off some debt and um I started a business in May and that's actually been helping a lot.

>> Okay. So, how much debt do you have left? >> I owe uh 34,000 on the house um with

about 58,000 in equity. I've got uh

41,000 in student loans, 22,000 in

credit cards, and I owe 6,000 on my vehicle. >> Okay. And how much is in [clears throat] that emergency fund?

Um, I've got enough to to fund February.

>> How much is that?

>> Um, I'd have to look. I think it's down to 4,000 right now. >> So, you burn through the the emergency fund. So, you got 4,000 left to your name essentially.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. $58,000. $58,000 of equity.

41,000. Okay. Um, and tell me again, did I hear you say I wrote down a lot of numbers. Did I hear you say your income at this point is it 2600 a month? Is that what I heard you say?

>> 2,600 a month. And then my business, I just started it in May. So, um, the numbers have been different about every month, but right now I'm grossing about 1,600. >> Good.

>> And [clears throat] netting about 1,000 to,200. And I'm hoping that it it just continues to grow, especially as we get into the summer. >> Okay. So, fair enough.

Like around 3,600 is what maybe you could count on per month. >> Do you have your own bank account that is not at the same bank your husband has? >> I do. Yes.

>> Okay, good.

>> That's correct. >> Good. What do you pay? What's the mortgage every month? What do you pay?

>> Uh $933.

>> Good. Good. Okay. So, tell us right now what's on fire besides your marriage financially. What's the thing that you're like, "Help me understand this." Jaden and George.

>> Um I don't know how to pay bills after

February and um I need to hire an attorney.

>> Okay. So, I think that you can pay the

bills after February. Tell us where how much the deficit is when you take your 3,600, you pay the 900 in the mortgage, you pay your debts. Is there you pay for food and transportation? Is there anything left?

>> Um, I've got life insurance payments and then um oh jeez, what else? Oh, electricity and propane and normal stuff. So, it's usually about my budget's about4500 to

5,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, and that's in every dollar.

>> Um, I I'm using You need a budget at the moment. >> Okay. I want you to pop into Every Dollar because Every Dollar is going to help you find margin anywhere possible.

You'll be able to tell it about your specific situation and it's going to work overtime to find you money anywhere. Um, so right now you're $1,000 deficit every single month. So, that's why this is dwindling. uh so quickly I can see but there's also a path to get your income up right >> with the business >> yes it it's been very slow um I mean it

keeps changing but I I see it being capped at some point with the market becoming saturated >> okay so what I don't think you should do and I don't think that you need to sell your house right right away I think you're actually you're paying a little less than 900 bucks a month I think I heard you say uh you're in a good equity position with it. You don't owe a ton on it. I don't think you're going to find anywhere cheaper to live uh for a family of five. Do you do you agree or disagree?

>> I I completely agree. >> Okay. Uh what I would do is change the locks once you file for a divorce. I would change the lock so that he's not just coming up in there willy-nilly, >> right?

>> Okay. Um and then is there anybody in your community who can set you up with a good attorney or who could recommend a good attorney?

I've been told that I live too far away.

Um >> they the attorneys don't want to drive to the courthouse in my location if they

had to. >> Got it. >> Okay, understood. >> And are all the debts in your name solely or is anything joint or is anything in his name solely?

>> The ones that I named are either in my name or are joint. He's got his own mess. Um he's been opening up credit cards uh for the last two years and um

he's got >> Have you frozen your credit yet? Because my fear is he's opening debts in your name. >> I have frozen it and I check on it.

>> Okay. >> Well, here's the truth. The faster we get through this process of divorce, the faster we can hope for some alimony and child support, which means you can breathe again and that'll get you to fight another day and hopefully clean up some of these debts.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't try to pay anything off just yet. I wouldn't try to sell your house or anything like that just yet because once this goes to court, who knows how this is going to get split, including the house, unfortunately.

I'm not sure what the the laws are in your area. He's been living there since 2018, so I'm not sure if any of that will be up for grabs. But yeah, change the locks, freeze the credit, and file for divorce and figure out how to pay for it because you got to divorce this guy. >> Great.

>> I can't imagine.

This fact that this guy's not even covering the expenses for his own children and just abandon the family just breaks my heart. And u I know you'll get through it. You're you're a survivor and a warrior, but it's going to be a process to get to the other side of this and see some light. >> Yeah.

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[music]

Sarah is up next in New Jersey. [music] Sarah, what's going on?

>> Hi there. How are you >> doing? Great. What's your question today?

So, I am trying to figure out how much I

need for retirement. Um, I see where I'm

trending right now in terms of my retirement progress, but I feel like it's falling short of what I'll probably need. >> Okay. >> And so, I'm struggling to figure out like what I should aim for. I know I I watched a segment where someone was at 3.5 million. I don't know if that's accurate or where it should be. Um, and what I would need to adjust to get there. >> Okay.

Well, usually when we think about retiring, I'll tell you what's in my head. I'm thinking about my entire nest egg and I'm thinking based on my annualized rate of return, which is about 10%, can I live off of 10% of my income, and can it feel like the lifestyle I have now or better? Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> What do you currently have invested?

Um, so I have uh let me see in terms of

my 401k um I have about $146,000.

>> Okay. >> Um and then I have a a brokerage account

with like a couple of EFTs which is about $7,000.

>> Mh. >> Um I have a separate Roth IRA which I just opened up that has $1,000.

Um and then the the other money that I

have is just um it's an emergency emergency fund. Okay. Do you have any debt?

>> Uh, I have student loan debt. So, I have a student loan that it's in um it's in

forbbearance, but I every other month I make a $1,000 payment towards that.

>> Okay. What's left on the balance?

>> Um 130,000.

>> And what's your income?

>> It's 210.

>> Good income. Is that just you?

>> Yes. >> There you go. >> All right. So, how much are you currently investing?

Um, so currently I invest via my my

paycheck and so about 600 goes into my

401k every paycheck and then my employer matches that. >> What's the match?

>> Uh 7%. >> Good. Okay. So if you follow through

>> I have $300 that I was putting into um I

was putting into like Capital which is like a money saving app. I was, you know, like $300 every paycheck, but I just recently moved that into the the an EFT to start putting that into there.

>> Okay. And why are you investing outside of the retirement right now into those ETFs, I imagine, is what you were saying, >> you know, I don't know. [laughter] >> Okay.

Try to do something.

And so, and then also the other thing too is that does it make sense to max out the 401k? I think I've done it in the past and the thing that I'm kind of most worried about is, you know, what are the the taxes going to look like and so if I can find some other place to do it where the taxes might not be as much and just just trying.

>> So, can we let let George and I tell you what we would do and as we're doing it telling you that, you tell us your objection so we can help you get past it. Would that be all right?

>> So, I'm looking at what you're doing and I I hear what you're saying. It sounds like you're just doing everything you can to feel like you're doing something, but I would argue that you're doing too much and because of it, you're not making the progress that you want to make. Um, the way I would do it, Sarah,

is I would focus on clearing out these student loans first so you can have the fullness of your income and so that these things don't follow you into retirement. Cuz what a pain in the butt to still be paying off student loans when you're retiring, right? You're not even working anymore. you're not even using the education anymore at that point.

So, I would really focus on that and that's going to require a mental shift. That's why I asked go ahead and tell us your [laughter] uh what what your reservations are, but let me play out the plan first. So, you pay off the student loans.

into retirement every single month.

That's a lot of money.

>> And if you did that, let's just pretend, I know that you've got the student loans to pay off, but just let's say you did that for 20 years at the rate that you have now, I mean, you're going to be over $3 million at that point.

>> Okay? >> So, if we can kind of reverse engineer that to make that happen, it's going to start with Yeah. We got to have the student loans paid off. We've got to have some form of cushion between you and life, some sort of emergency fund.

That way, we can invest and not worrying about have to having to pull it out for emergencies again, right? And now we've

created kind of the sustainability. I mean, think about it. Making $210,000 a

year with just you, how quickly could you pay off the student loan? >> I do have I do have a a toddler. I'm sorry. I meant that I was unmarried, but I do have a toddler. You have a toddler. It's only my income. It is only my income. >> Well, great. you and your toddler $210,000 a year. How quickly, if you really got intense, because I think mentally you are intense about being prepared for the future. How quickly could you pay off that debt?

>> Feel like I could probably pay it off in in a few years. >> Ding, ding, ding. Two years. So, here's the math on 130 grand. 24 months. You're talking $5,400 a month, not a,000 every

other month. We are going hard in the paint at this debt. And here's what that does. 24 months from now, you're 50 years old, right? Yes.

>> And you've paused investing for those two years, all investing, which scares you. But here's the truth. Now you have freed up so much of your income and focus and energy. Now from 50 to 65, let's say you invest that 2625. That's 15% of your income every month. Like you're you're going to have $1.8 million sitting in there in that one account.

>> Okay? >> And that's at 65. If you want to keep working, you know, you ride this out till 67, you got 2.2 million. And like Jade said, you continue this down the path, you'll have more and more. And so retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. And so we don't just get to retire because, well, we're 65, it's time. A lot of people get there and go, I don't have enough to cover the expenses. And getting into retirement debtree is your best bet at reducing the amount you need in retirement.

The other the only other thing too is that I've I've also been looking to purchase a home.

>> Um because I've been renting um and so

trying to factor, you know, I don't want to delay purchasing a home because I'm finally in in I think a good financial position to do that, but I don't know how that factors into, you know, kind of increasing what I'd be um contributing to the the the student loans at this time. Well, I do love the idea of having

um that line item on your budget set once you're in retirement. I I would hate for you to be renting then. So, at that point, the order of the order of steps would be still focusing on getting the debt cleared out first cuz again, we don't want debt, especially that sort of debt following us into retirement. Then next, yeah, you still need some sort of emergency fund, some sort of cash cash position to keep you between, you know, a barrier between you and life.

Then from there, yeah, now you could start to do both at the same time. You could start investing 15% and start putting aside for a down payment.

rather than put off investing um any

more years in order to save up for the down payment faster. I would try to do them at the same time. >> So, you're investing 15% into retirement and then any money above that goes into a savings account for that down payment.

Even though that might make it go a little slower than you want, you're going to want the years. You're going to want that time uh of compound interest growing for you and your retirement accounts.

>> Okay, I think that sounds solid.

>> You got a lot of great goals. It's just we just got to get focused one thing at a time and you'll clean this mess up fast and making if you keep making $210,000, I have no fear that your life is going to look very different a decade from now. >> Yeah. Is your income going up anytime soon?

Uh, I hope so.

>> Good. I would plan for it to go up, right? Why would it go down at this point? You're kind of at going into your highest earning potential years. So, you're a lot of people in their 50s earn their highest amount. So, really, really good. >> I'm proud of you, Sarah. >> Yeah. And I think that's been on tack. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

>> So, it's time to ratchet up those student loan payments cuz here's the truth. 130 grand at, you know, 6 or 7%

interest, you're probably the balance is moving upward. Even as you're making a $1,000 payment every other month, you might be acrewing over a thousand in interest every other month. >> Absolutely. >> So, you really got to get ahead of it.

And that means throwing huge chunks of money. And we get those calls where people go, "Hey, I owed 80 and now I owe a hundred because it was in forbearance and I didn't understand what it meant. I just thought they were helping me out. Now I have an even bigger mountain to climb." >> Yeah.

For some reason, student loans rest differently in people's minds. If you had $120,000 of debt and it was credit cards, cars, all these other things, you think, "Oh my gosh, I have to get a hold of this." But for some reason, when it's just one block of student loans, people tend to push it aside and forget about it. >> Well, society told us it's an investment in your future. And yet, you can't bankrupt on the thing.

>> [music]

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Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. It's the Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment so you can get back on the baby steps and start making progress. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states.

>> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. She says, "What's your opinion on how much to help kids financially after they get married? My son and his fiance are getting married this summer. They're in their early 20s and have a young daughter. They are both in college pursuing degrees. Our plan is for them to live in our basement for free until they graduate and start working full-time. I plan on continuing to pay for my son's college and provide help uh to his wife as well after they

get married. I'm getting mixed opinions about whether I'm hap helping or hurting them by supporting them after they're married. Even if he's married, he's still my son. And I think it's my responsibility to help both of them get through college debtree if I'm able to.

Friends and family say they need to be independent once they're married, even if that means going into debt to finish college and pay rent so they can live independently. Uh what are your thoughts? So, it sounds like uh they

started a little earlier than most as far as having children and because of

that it's kind of set a course of events

into into action a little earlier than maybe planned. Um, so I'm with you,

Shannon, on the education part. I think that if it was your plan to pay for college, especially for your son, and he's still willing to go, I think it's great if you're still willing to pay for um college. Now, did it did I read you say that you were paying for hers, too? I think you're just supporting her.

Um, I'm fine with you paying for college. I think that's great. Now, the living in the basement until they graduate and start working full-time.

a kid, I think that is okay. There has

to be clear guard rails and time frames

on this. It can't just be, oh, live in the basement and I'm supporting you financially until you're ready. And the the part of you being ready is just kind of like this vague ambiguous.

>> Yeah. They're probably not leaving at that point. if mom's still folding my laundry and covering all the bills. So there there is that that word independent is the key here.

If they are >> what does that mean? >> If they are codependent and now you're enabling the codependence, that's on you. And so we need to make sure that number one, we're not artificially propping up their life. If this was a marathon, you don't want to be carrying them over the finish line.

Now, if they're running and they're doing a great job and they've trained, it's okay to give them a little boost.

It's okay to help them financially after they get married. I think that's awesome. If you want to pay for the wedding and you want to help them with a down payment and give them some money for that, that's great. But only if they're already employed and working hard and able to take care of the bills on their own. >> Yeah. I think they should be paying you.

I think you need to sit down and have something very clear here as far as what are they going to pay you in rent because if they're just living for free, that's not going to help them when it does come time for them to go into the world and try to get and and try to lease a place. they're going to need to show some form of history of paying

rent. And so that's good. Even if it's 500 bucks, come up with something so they have some skin in the game. Also, set very clearly how long is this agreement going to last? If he's out of college in uh you know, 2 years, is that

the cut off point? Um is it 2 years and 6 months? Like be very specific. What are the parameters while they're there?

Must both of them have at least part-time jobs. Must they be paying a certain amount of rent? Right? make that so so clear. Um so that there's no question and when the time comes for them to, you know, leave the nest, they're not thinking that you're kicking them out. They're going, "Oh yeah, this is exactly what we decided." So whatever you set, make sure you're talking about about it early and often. And make sure that um you don't get caught up in this

as the rescuer and their drama triangle.

>> If you've never Googled the drama triangle, you should. triangulation.

Yes. >> All right. Good question, Shannon. Frank is in Boise up next on the line. What's going on, Frank?

>> Hi. Um, I have a question to ask you.

I've been talking to a financial advisor here at Boisey. Recommended from you guys and I have um three 401ks

because my um the contractor I work

under, they keep changing companies, so it changes to a new 401k and they're pretty small. Um, so I think the three

[clears throat] they total around $73,000.

>> Okay. >> I want to know what to do. Should I roll them into the new 401k by this April, this month, or should I roll them into a personal IRA, which the financial advisor recommends that and I brought them up, you know, about the large cap, midcap, small cap, and international companies that they ran Ramsay recommends.

but I'm 57 years old and they said they need to make a portfolio for me just for

me because of my age that they would do

it differently or something like that.

>> Yeah, I'm guessing they're saying, "Hey, you need to start including some bonds and sort of tone down the the aggressive investing as you get closer to retirement, which is normal in the financial planning world." Uh you'll hear that a lot.

>> So that is okay to do that. So I don't need to be doing large cap, midcap, small cap, or international companies exactly like that. >> We still adise a little bit more. Dave Ramsey is a big fan of just keeping it 100% equities and letting it ride.

Uh because over the long haul, I mean, you could live to be 97 and so you're talking you're still got 40 years of that money sitting there. And so there just going to be a little bit of a drag when it comes to the bonds starting to enter the picture with much lower returns, but also less volatility. And so it's a really personal decision for you and you're, you know, you can talk with your advisor on what they recommend for your situation. We don't have all the facts on what your expenses are and what the nest egg is going to be.

And so you never should touch the money and you want to keep it in kind. So, if it's traditional 401k, you want to move it to a traditional 401k or traditional IRA, uh, instead of Roth because that'll trigger a whole, you know, host of penalties and taxes there. So, uh, that's what I would do. There's nothing if you have a strong 401k, you can just roll it all into there.

My guess is the adviser is saying, "Hey, if you roll into the IRA, he can help manage it." Uh, they don't have access to help manage your 401k.

Um I he said there's more um there's

more u mutual funds in a IRA than versus a 401k. >> Yeah, you might have 20 options with your work 401k. An IRA, the world is your oyster. You have access to everything. So there are some there's some pros and and cons there. And so you do you do your own due diligence there.

You're still steering the ship when it comes to investing and you do whatever you think is best for your situation.

But there's really there's nothing wrong with doing either. And so don't overthink it. >> Gotcha. Okay. Then he says a 1.5%

of advisory fee and I guess that off of

73,000. That's about $95 a month. Is that correct? Yes. >> If I'm doing something wrong. >> Yeah, that's that's normal in the financial planning world. There's something called AUM, assets under management, and that's basically how they make their living is managing these portfolios. And one to one and a half% is uh is normal in that world. And so you're talking 73,000 if it just sits there. Um, and you've got, you know, you're right, $1,95 a year divided by 12. And so, you know, that's that's the

price you pay for making sure that someone is managing it for you and you have access to them advice all year long, all of that. And so, you really want to make sure your adviser is looking at a holistic picture, not just a fund picker. And so, I would be utilizing them for way more than just helping you do this rollover.

>> Okay, I got you. So, what you saying you recommended? I mean, if >> if this guy, he's telling me, "Yeah, do this. Do this." And >> if I were in your if I were in your shoes and I looked at my current 401k that's being offered and I really liked the funds and they were growing at a rate of return, that's what you know

what what it should be. Uh, you might say, "Okay, I'll just roll them over to the new company 401k." But if you're looking at the options and you're going, "Hey, like based on what I'm seeing, this is really not performing well. I need access to the full market, then that totally makes sense to roll them over and let somebody help you pick some better funds. >> And sometimes the 401k has uh fees as well, so you want to look at that and see what that's costing you inside of the account.

So, a lot of homework and research to do. And it never hurts to have the pro look it over. But again, you're in the driver's seat. And so, if you're like, "Hey, no, I don't want to give it all to the IRA and have you manage it," that's your that's your decision to make.

But, uh, I'm proud of you for taking that step. Just don't let the money sit there. You want to move it and have it working for you, invested, and not just sitting.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> You asked and we listened. Guys, the Live Like No one Else cruise is back by popular demand. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave Ramsey, all of us Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean. You can share your story with Dave, swap jokes with me, sing karaoke with Jade. I hope that's happening. >> Um >> although I want to sing next to you cuz that's that's a lot of pressure. >> I know, but I always put on like my fake voice. The love bow. I don't do my real

voice. >> You make others look good. Yeah, that's impressive. So, here's who this cruise is for. It's not for everyone. If you're on baby step four or higher, meaning you have paid off your consumer debt, you've got the emergency fund, it's time to celebrate. You probably haven't marked the moment. Yeah. And a cruise is a really awesome way to do that. It's It's the Ramsay audience plus our team. It

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Tom is in LA up next. What's going on, Tom? >> Hey, how you guys doing? >> Great. What's your question?

>> I Yeah, I was just calling in. I'm a PhD

student over here and my wife recently

lost her job back in like July and I'm

just wondering and looking to get some advice on how best to get through this stage of my career and money situation

whether that is pushing harder and just getting out as quickly as possible um yeah or trying to work extra jobs. So

for some advice on that, >> what money is coming in with you doing your PhD?

>> So with being at UCLA, we have like a full stipend. It's about three grand. So

in LA, it covers about housing costs and

a little bit of food. Um but beyond that, before I had worked a full-time

job um as a engineer and saved up enough

money where I haven't had to cover anything. So, I have like this little nest egg that's just dwindling down, but

it's >> there's about 24,000.

>> Okay. And you've been basically using that to float the gap for the last 6 months. >> What did your wife do?

>> So, she was a like IT trainer over at

UCLA. >> Okay. And so, it's been since July. Has she gotten any bites? What's what's what's up with that, do you think?

>> So, she's gotten a few bites um in the tech center. has just been really quiet for the past few months. And then she recently started working with some family members on starting up moving a business that's they've started over in Mexico over here. Um and so she's going

hard on that.

>> Not paid yet. And so they're just starting it. So I'm hoping that >> will she be paid when this is moved or how does this work? Cuz I wouldn't. We're not doing volunteer work right now. >> Yeah. Um, I think once it gets moved, it

would be paid. I'm just not sure about I've been trying to get like a good timeline, but it's very ethereal at this

point in time where >> has she looked at just other fields in the IT world that she would be qualified for? >> Yeah. So, she's been applying around.

Um, I think that she's just very much

kind of also chasing a bit of a dream of

this job and this kind of like entrepreneurial spirit and I want to appreciate that. And also love that cuz also I'm kind of doing that and I'm like >> yeah there's going to be seasons where it's it's Tom's turn and he's chasing this PhD and I'm hoping this PhD is going to turn into a big pay raise on the other side. What's the goal with the PhD? >> So I'm studying bioengineering. So the goal is to hopefully yes have a a big pay raise and be working for one of the

big biotech firms like Neuralink stuff, things along those lines. We're talking high six figure salary once we're done with this. So when is the PhD done and how soon would you be working after that? >> Yeah. So that's one of the decisions is I can hopefully be done by early fall

next year if I really push hard. But the

other idea is if I need to float is if I

take some extra time and work like as a tutor and take an extra year but float

expenses. So fall of 27 or tutor and

then it's fall of 28. 2008 28. Oh boy.

So okay. Yeah. Let's go let's go back to

the wife then because you were kind of on this path. I think you have to see it through at this point. Um I think for your wife, she's got to it it's one thing if you want to do a business venture, but you need to have solid a solid business plan. something that she can look at and then be able to say to you, here's what's going to happen and we should be profitable by this date and when we're profitable, this is the salary I should be able to draw.

we were going to be profitable by this date. We're not. So now therefore, we're not going to continue on with this. And if she can't provide that, then that means there is no meat on these bones.

It's just an experiment. And you guys are not in a time of life just yet where she can totally experiment because you're going to look up and this 24,000 is going to be gone. What's your burn rate every month?

>> Burn rate is about 2,000 a month.

>> Oh yeah. You're going to look up and be like in two years this money is going to be gone. Which [sighs]

two years is not bad. I mean that's you being you'll be graduated by then.

>> Do you guys have debt? [snorts] >> Um so we do have some debt. just one car loan and then um her student loans which

are about together is about 20,000.

>> Okay, that's total with the car loan.

>> Uh I think what's left on the car loan it might be closer to 25 or 30 but

definitely below 30 or above.

>> Do you guys have kids?

>> No kids. >> Okay. So what has she been doing for 6 months? cuz I I'd rather her do something even if it's not in the IT field just to provide some income and some purpose and and meaning every day to go out there and do something cuz it's easy to fall into a low-grade depression just sitting around going I was laid off.

I can't find a job and you start to question your your identity and selfworth. >> Yeah. Just to just to earn the burn rate. Like she could experiment but she got to at least bring in the the couple thousand.

>> And she's too qualified and talented just to be sitting on the sidelines for seven months now. Yeah, that's what I try to I've been trying to be encouraging as much as possible I think is just very disheartening for her. The current situation of applying and getting rejected um and just feeling that she isn't as talented as I know she is. So >> that's your job.

future but right now we are in a season where we both need side jobs at night

delivering Uber Eats and Door Dash >> that's the reality cuz we can't burn through the savings and then be going into debt every month living in LA. It's an expensive life as you know.

>> Yeah. A piece of homework you guys can do tonight that will feel proactive is if you can both sit down tonight and make a list of everyone you know that

might know someone in her space that

could be hiring, right? That could put in a word for her. We'll make sure that she has Kim Coleman's um career materials so that she can really focus in and figure out how to do that the right way. But just reaching out to your network cuz chances are there's somebody that's in your network that holds the key to her next job.

>> Okay. Yeah, that'd be very good, >> right? Yeah. Try to make a list of 10 names.

>> She has to create some inertia here cuz, you know, an object of rest stays at rest. And so, it's hard to even have the self-confidence to have the meeting or do the interview when you feel like, "Oh my gosh, here we go again." It's like dating. You're like, "Well, I've had 19 bad dates. What's the point?

Love isn't real." It's easy to fall into that hole if you're not careful. Uh but you know, this again, this is a season you guys will have an amazing trajectory in the future. And right now, you're going to look back at this time and go, remember when we both had to do door dash on the side just to make ends meet? That was crazy.

>> Yes. This is a very short period of of time that most of us go through where it's just you're just broke.

>> Not not so much cuz you've made a bunch of mistakes. You're just young and getting started. >> But you stack on high cost of living on top of that. I mean, it's impressive that they've even made it work on what they're bringing in every month. Even with the savings and the stip, >> that's still a tough life. So, the reality is we got to live like we're broke college students, which means [music] we can't eat out. We are getting the discount groceries and stretching it and meal prepping. It is just rice,

chicken, broccoli. Stack them. Go.

That's what we're eating every single day for a year.

>> You'll survive. No one's died from doing that as [music] far as I know. It ain't pretty.

[music]

[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union [music] studio.

I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at88255225.

Riker is up next in Utah. Riker, what's

going on? >> Hi, how are you? >> Great. How can Jade and I help?

>> So, I'm wondering on how to build a

budget with such an inconsistent income

that me and my future wife are going to have once we combine finances.

What do you do that's so inconsistent?

>> So, my fiance is a hair stylist and so

it just depends on what client she can get for her income. And then my family

owns a fencing business and a ranching business. And um during the summer I can

make upwards to $10,000 a month, but during the winter during ranching I'm making zero. >> Okay. And what about her? What's her

swing of income, good to bad >> right now? Right now, she just started three months ago and she's making about

from 1,500 a month to about 2,300 a

month. >> Okay. Okay. So, maybe say 18 is a right

there in the middle. Okay. So, >> yeah, >> the way I would do this, when are you guys getting married, by the way? When does this actually start? June 20th.

>> Okay, good.

>> Uh, so what I would do by then, by June, you're going to kind of see what her averages are. Hopefully, they continue to go up, but you really want to plan your budget wor based on your worst month. That's what I would do is I would say, okay, first off, how much does it take for us to even like what's our barebones budget? What does it take for us to operate? Keeping the lights on, keeping food on the table, four walls, keeping our insurance, whatever that is.

And then on our worst month, how far away from that amount are we? So, you're

kind of filling in the unknowns there.

>> And then from there, I would kind of stock up and say, "Okay, let's pretend we find out it takes $3,000 for our household to run and we bring in on our

worst month 3,200." Well, that's great.

That means there's a little bit of margin there. But it also means that you might want to keep an account, take that $200 and over time stock up an extra

month's worth of savings that's kind of there >> to float you in the rough months. We call it kind of a peaks and valleys fund. So when you have a really great month, that's the peak. Well, we don't need all of that to cover the expenses. So let's move it over to a savings account so that when you have that $0 month, you can get by and not feel like, oh my gosh, what are we doing?

>> And it's not your emergency fund. So don't get it confused. It's It's completely separate from an emergency fund. >> The real question is what are you doing all winter long?

>> So I I do ranch with my dad all winter.

I work probably six hours a day all winter, >> but for free. >> I don't get paid.

>> Yeah. I don't So I don't get paid for the work.

I I own cows in our herd. I and I sell

bulls and I sell beef, but instead of me

getting paid hourly, I work off like

feed and hay. So I don't have to pay my

dad back for hay. And I just get the money from the animals instead of having

to pay hand back for all the seed and all the hay. >> So what are the zero what are the zero sum months? >> I don't do farm math, so I need to help help me understand this. Which months do you on paper earn zero and which months on paper do you earn the 10,000?

>> So I can So in about from April to

November I can earn 10,000 and then

in we sell bulls in April and that's

when I can make money off the ranch. But

in between, so like

like mid December to when we start

fencing in April, I'm not making any money. But I'm getting ranch money during the summer when I'm working full-time as well. >> So really, if you spread it out over 12 months, you're making six $65,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> So that's not bad. It's almost like a teacher. You just have to account for the summer months.

>> Yeah. >> For you it's the winter.

Yeah. >> Can you go do something part-time or even full-time from January through April that actually pays?

>> Um, I could. We live in a really remote

part of Utah. There's only

400 people in my town and the nearest

town, like we have to drive an hour to go get groceries.

>> Not a lot of side hustles out there.

Well, do any other places around you need help?

>> I'm guessing those other people are a lot of farming. Is that a kind of a farming town?

>> Yeah. So I Yeah, I could go and pick up

a ranchand job somewhere just right here locally. >> Yeah, it seems like >> help a little bit in the winter months. >> It seems like in a town I think you just have to put your thinking cap on and think outside the box because it feels like in a town that small there's got to be needs that people have because there's it's pretty remote. You can't get to the things you want.

So, I just spend some time brainstorming what is it that during the summer months or I'm sorry during the winter months I would need help with that it would be nice to have that service and maybe it's a service that you can provide um for the folks who live around you during those months.

>> Yeah. >> Is your fiance in the same town?

>> Yeah, we live together. >> Okay. Well, she's got enough hair appointments with a town of 400 to make this work.

>> So, she drives an hour to go to work.

Goodness gracious. Every day? An hour each way? >> Yeah. >> Oh gosh. >> Yeah. An hour. An hour each way. And she's working Monday through Saturday.

>> Dude, she just set the bar. Riker, sounds like you're driving an hour into town for your side hustle.

>> Yep. >> You hop in with her and you go do something nearby.

>> You drop her off and you go door dash.

>> Quality time. >> So that's the key. If you want stable income to make this less stressful, go create some stable income during those months. Otherwise, you do the peaks and valleys side where you go, hey, I made 10 grand. We only need five. I'm going to sock away five over here, knowing we might need to float some expenses in the down months. >> You're doing good. I mean, you're making 80,000 a year, which is pretty sweet.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For small town rural living. I hope you have low expenses.

>> Yeah, we're only we have to spend about 2500 a month.

>> That's not bad. So, when I'm only 18 and

when I'm able to, I'm hoping to get my CDL. And during the winter, I was going to snowplow drive.

>> Hey, there we go. >> I love it. There you go. That's a great idea. >> Can you start a Christmas tree farm, too? I've seen that in every Hallmark movie ever. >> I We probably should to be honest with you. >> I like this. >> I'd get creative. You guys are young.

You can you can sort of take those risks right now, quote unquote. Obviously doing this all with cash. Are you guys completely debtree, both of you?

Yeah, we're completely debtree. We own our both of our vehicles and we're paying a thousand bucks a month in rent

literally.

>> And then just food is the only other >> This bodess well cuz that really if you have inconsistent income, you really got to be debtree and have that emergency fund because life is already a little bit stressful when you don't know what's going to come in. And so I'm proud of you for uh for being a really hard worker at 18. I think this bodess well for your future together and uh I wish you guys the best. Yeah, knowing what I know about your income, if I were you, every time I got 10,000, I'd keep 6,000 and put the rest away.

get something off the ground and and roll it and just tell yourself that you make $6,000 a month instead of 10.

>> I learned a lot on that call. This was like Settlers of Katan. He was like, I'll trade you a hay for a brick, Dad.

I'm like, all right. Hey, whatever kind of arrangement [laughter] you guys have, you figure it out. >> Whoever got the longest road wins. That game hurts my brain. But hey, I'm not a farmer for obvious reasons. I wouldn't survive one hour out there. They'd find my body. [laughter] You're 3 ft from the house.

>> Oh boy. >> I needed my gluten-free snacks.

>> [music]

[music]

>> If you've been paying off debt, working the plan, and have reached baby step 4 or beyond, you've done the hardest part.

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We're headed to Orlando up next. John joins us there. John, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for [music] having me. >> Absolutely. What's going on with you?

Yeah. So, I currently, yeah, as I said, I lived in or I live in Orlando and I have a pretty good job. Um, but I have a

potential career change and unique job opportunity that would take me out of state. Uh, but it would actually be a pay decrease. And another big problem is that I'm severely underwater on my mortgage. >> Oh, boy. Oh, >> you're not behind on payments.

>> No, no, no. >> Okay. So, how are you underwater?

>> Like upside down?

upside down. Yes. Sorry. >> You owe more than the house is worth.

>> Yeah. By quite a bit. >> How did we get here? >> Yeah. Houses.

>> Yeah. So, I bought this house about two years ago and the market was really high. Um and I knew of the whole home

buying thing, so I probably overpaid for it. >> Yeah. >> And then, yeah, houses in my area just they're really not selling well. Um

>> they're the prices have gone way down since I've bought. So, >> so you're underwater on paper right now as if you sold today, you would take a big loss and you would need to come up with the difference.

>> Yes. And that's the problem with this out ofstate job. Yeah.

>> How how do you have any money? Like do you personally have any money saved?

>> Yes, I have quite a bit of savings, but I just don't want to dig into it uh for this. >> How much do you have? >> But yeah, so I have um stocks that I get

for my company. I have about 110,000.

>> Okay. >> Um and then just and then like liquid cash I have maybe like 12,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So the the good news is if you did

choose to get out of this cuz it's 70,000 underwater. Is that correct?

>> That's what I'm expecting. Yeah. About 70,000. >> Okay. The good news is if you had to bring the cash to the table to get out of this house, you could. Um however, my

question is why are you moving out of state for a pay decrease? tell us more about the opportunity. That doesn't sound like an opportunity just yet.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um to give more background, uh I'm a software developer currently and I do really like my job.

Um and it the pay is good. Uh so, this

job would actually be a completely different career change and it would actually be in federal law enforcement.

>> Oh, wow. Okay.

>> Yeah. [laughter] So, something I've been thinking about doing since I was a kid and I finally got the opportunity to do it. the the process takes a really long time. So, and very few people make it through the process. So, I wasn't really thinking about this the whole time. I was just kind of going through.

>> What's the differences in pay? What do you make now and what would you make?

>> Yeah. So, um my total so to so base

right now is around 160,000.

>> Okay. >> Um my total pay after stocks and everything ends up being about 210,000 maybe a little bit more. >> Wow. because I get 50,000 in stocks.

Yeah. And then this new job um

would start out around like high 80,000s.

>> Um but it does go up after each year. Um

but yeah, it would definitely even long-term like the highest paid people in my in the new role would make slightly less than I make currently. And my >> like slightly less than the 160 or slightly less than the 210?

>> Uh slightly less than the 210. I think the top people like once you make the GS13 or whatever, I think it ends up

being around 190,000.

>> Okay. >> And you're single?

>> Yes, I am. I have a long-term girlfriend, but uh no, not married.

>> What's the You said um the percentage was low to even get into this. what what's the percentage like what's the chances that you'll move and actually get into the program or get to take the next steps?

>> Yeah, so right now so

they they're wanting to get me set up for training right now. So um so around

1% of people who apply actually get elected for like training, but I've actually made it all the way through to that to that stage. >> Okay. So you made it you made it under the fence. So what has what has to happen next? What's the timeline?

Um, so I haven't fully um labeled. So

yeah, training would be about three or four months from now. They have to get me selected for a training class and >> would you have to quit your job to do the training?

>> Yeah, I would. Yes.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And then the training Oh, go ahead. Sorry. >> Well, I'm just thinking through this. So, it sounds like this is something you really want to do. Um, >> right. this this is you've kind of decided you are doing it.

>> Um I haven't made up my mind. Um it

would be different if I wasn't happy in my current role, but I do really like my current job, but at the same time, yes, this is something I've wanted to do for a long time. >> Well, the truth is you can always go back to software developing if this doesn't work out or if it's, you know, I had fun, but I'm ready to go back. So, it'll always be there. I'm not mad at the pay cut if it's what you really want to do.

um the the you're gonna have to just suck it up and go these stocks are gone. I'm gonna use this to, you know, get out of this underwater mortgage. Uh you might owe some taxes and then you're going to move and that's going to cost money. And so just know it's not an optim a financially optimal move, but we know life is bigger than just spreadsheets.

>> Sure. >> Do you have any debt?

>> That other than the mortgage.

>> Okay. I mean, I think unless you have

another reason that you haven't told us about, if the reason for you strictly is a financial one and but I kind of like my job, I think we've given you an out for both of those. It's just uh do you want to go forward or not?

>> That's that's true. >> In the grand scheme of life, the underwater mortgage is is like, okay, that was kind of a stupid tax, you know, something you couldn't super control.

Now, you could have put more down and had more equity and got out of it unscathed, but here we are. And you're a smart guy. You make great money. You will recover.

>> Okay. Thank you. So, financially, it's not the end of the world. It's just if it's more about my decision on what career I want to do. >> Yeah. I mean, I c I could ask you this question. I mean, there's there's a chance that if you stuck in this house for a couple more years, maybe you'd see it go right side up. But will this federal law enforcement opportunity be available to you in 2 to 3 years? We don't know. >> Do you know? >> We don't know. Yeah. Um, so there is an

age limit. Um, I'm 32 right now and you

you have to enter training before you turn 37. So,

>> um, the window is kind of closing, but not it's not im closed. I mean, you got five years. So, if you if you said to yourself, I know I can wait three years and I I' I want to do that. You could wait three years and see if you can get right side up on this. Um, if you know for sure that that opportunity would be available to you and you wouldn't be one of you wouldn't be the 1% that doesn't make it to uh to training, right?

>> And would you just rent in this new area if you got the job?

Uh yeah, I would just that would probably be the plan starting out at the new job is to rent for a while. Uh training itself takes about six months and then um yeah, your housing is taken

care of during that time but then I would probably rent. >> Is the training paid?

>> Yes, it is.

>> Okay. And then the last question, I mean it's not part of the financial discussion, but the relationship is it going to survive long distance?

>> Um probably not. That's another Yeah,

that's another big factor in my decision. >> Okay. So, you're and you're okay with that, it seems.

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. >> Well, I think that's Yeah, it's just something I'll need to decide. So, I'm looking at all the factors. So, the financial factor and then also the relationship factor. And both of those I think are going to influence my decision. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I mean, if she's the one that that changes the scenario. But if you're like, "Hey, it's been fun, but this career means more to me right now than the relationship." That's a choice you're making, and you just got to make peace with that.

>> Yeah, that makes sense, >> man. A lot of big decisions, John. But I'm excited for you. This it does feel like one of those once in a-lifetime opportunities.

Now, if he was in crippling debt, didn't have the stocks, he was going to have to do a short sale and wreck his financial life, this would have been a different conversation.

>> That's a crazy change though from software developer to federal law enforcement. >> I got to know what I mean if it's you got to be at a there's age and only this many people get in. Is this like Seal Team Six C? >> Oh man, he's going to be knocking on some doors. >> I didn't want to ask cuz I felt like he wouldn't tell me. Whatever it is, none of my business.

>> I want to know more. It's like a series.

It's like Jack Ryan.

>> He is Jack Ryan. [laughter] He's not telling us.

>> [music]

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Kim are up next in Kansas. What's going on? >> Hey sir, how are you? >> We're doing great. This is a fun segment. You guys are not just random folks. You are baby steps millionaires.

Is that correct? >> We Yes, sir. We really are. And uh yeah,

it's it's really um it's really exciting

actually that both of us come from very humble beginnings and we found your plan many years ago. I'll let the wife explain that. Uh that kind of put us on this path and yeah, we can't thank you enough. It's just great.

>> That's great. Well, hey, I did diddly squad over here while you guys did all the hard work, but we're honored to be a part of the story. And for the listeners, we like to do these segments to say, "Hey, it's possible for you." These are real people, normal people who just worked their tails off over a period of time and invested consistently, and we want to hear how you did it. So, let's let's break this down.

What is your net worth as a family? >> Uh, well, we're north of 3.5.

>> and to break that down, uh, we got 2.7 in 401ks, IAS. We got about 100 liquid

in brokerage account, savings account, and our home uh, that we purchased last year with cash is valued at 700,000.

>> Good job. >> Amazing. How old are you guys?

>> I am 57 and mama is pretty close to that. >> Fantastic. Is mama on the line? I think I hear her back there.

>> Hi, Kate. I'm here. Yes. Hi. [laughter] >> Hey. >> Fantastic. Okay. What was your worst year of income and best year of income in your working careers?

>> Okay. 1987, my first year in the military, I made $8,694.

>> Wow. >> And best year so far.

>> This year, well, probably uh north of 300. And that's with that's with um six

retirement checks coming in on top of my my wages. Wow. >> Way to go. That's that's a glow up if I've ever heard of one. Wow. >> Yeah. Okay. So, what are your careers?

So, we are both we are both retired military. Um, and then we both went on to work for the military as civilians.

My wife is retired retired for good now.

She's retired twice. Um, and I'm working on my second retirement. I could retire any day. Uh, I have the time. I'm just uh I'm enjoying my job. So, >> the next three to five years, I'm going to walk. >> Maybe you'll hit a world record. You'll have three retirements. Just keep it going.

>> You're It's like that movie where the cop has one more mission in him. He said, "Come on, get out of retirement." >> Liam Niss. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Well, thank you for your service.

>> Yes. Incredible. What were your degrees in if you got them?

>> So, I got a two-year in general studies and then I'll let mama take over.

>> And I have a four-year degree in criminal justice. >> Fantastic. And do you remember your GPA during that time?

>> I think mine was 3.6.

>> Yeah. And mine was about the same. She's being humble. She was about a 3.8.

>> I can tell she's the smarts here. And you're the bronze.

>> That's awesome. >> I'm the sherpa. I'm the sherpa of the relationship. >> So, how did you do this? What was I mean, was this always on the radar? We want to save for retirement or did you go through some valleys to finally make it to this being the goal? Tell us a little bit about the journey financially.

>> So, yeah, we both, like I said earlier, we both come from very humble beginnings and we knew that um we had great families and great values, but we wanted to change the money part. So, we searched and searched and and like trying to find a path like how do we get there? How do we get there? And then from there, I I deployed in 2008 for 15

months. And while I was gone, I'm going to let mama take the conversation over though. >> So, we were stationed in Germany and he deployed to Iraq for 15 months. So, it was just myself and my daughter. And a

friend of mine told me about Dave Ramsey and she gave me the book to read it. And when he would call on Sunday, I would ask him, "Are you what are you watching on TV? Are you listening to any money people?" And he was listening to another

pretty well-known financial voice at

that time. And I told him about Dave Ramsey and how the podcasts were free.

It was just so easy to listen and get engaged. And I'd mail him a book. And and sure enough, as soon as he heard Dave Ramsey, we both just fell in with both feet. and dove into the program. It

was exciting. It was new. It was invigorating. It was, >> you know, a way of money management that we were not familiar with. And it all

made perfect sense. And, you know, with team effort and just intentional about

where every penny went, we were able to become debtree and, you know, then start

obviously saving saving money. So

because of a good friend and because we both wanted a change for our future, uh

Dave Ramsey really really turned the

switch for us. >> Wow. That's awesome. So this was like 17ish years ago. You guys kind of got focused and went, "All right, let's get out of debt. Let's start investing." >> We did. We went all in. Um I buy your books by the bundle and I pass them out.

When I got here, I passed them out to my team that I work with. Oh, >> that's awesome. And I said, "Hey, hey guys, just read this book. All I ask is you read it and pay it forward when you're able to one day." Uh, we've been to the seminars down in um in LA. We

>> signed up for the cruise. >> We were signed up for the previous cruise. >> The first one.

>> Yes. But co put a damper on that.

>> Yes, it would have been great. It was great when we did it again last year.

>> And then we Yes. Most recently, we co-taught prior to leaving Germany. We got back from Germany last year. We we co-taught a financial peace class with our chaplain >> and that was great. >> That's fantastic. Did you guys inherit any of this 3.5 million?

>> Not a penny, sir. No, sir.

>> Fantastic. And then I got to know what kind of cars are real life millionaires driving. Can you tell us the year, make model of your vehicles?

>> I am. The the car I drive to work every day is a 2009 Honda Accord.

>> That is so perfect. That's so spot on.

>> Wow. Wow. Wow. >> Okay. And how about mama? Mama's got a Honda Pilot in there. That's a 22 that we bought cash. You know, we were there.

>> Good man. The wife always drives the nicer car. That is the rule.

>> That's the rule. Yes, sir. So, yeah. And and yeah, we've only bought three car.

We've been married 30 31 years this um August. We've only bought three brand new cars over those 30 years.

>> Wow. >> So, we we just uh >> Papa's due for an upgrade, isn't he?

Well, [laughter] to be transparent, I got an upgrade last summer. We bought a I got a GMC Sierra

with the Denali package. Uh, but it sits in the garage cuz I baby it and I've never had a vehicle. >> Okay. Okay. Makes sense.

>> It's like too nice for you to drive.

It's just a trophy at this point. >> Sits on the on the shelf. >> Exactly. Take it to the gas station and then I that detail it and back it back in the garage. But yes. So, do your do your neighbors or friends and family know your your status and net worth and wealth? Because it doesn't seem like you flaunt it. If I drove by your house, I would like those guys are probably worth three and a half million.

>> Nope, they don't know. And I was telling my wife, I was telling Kim, I was like, this is funny because we don't have to worry about our family listening to this podcast cuz they don't follow you guys like we do. >> That's amazing. And sad at the same time.

I hope they do one day. Goes, "Hey, that's Mike and Kim. They didn't change their names. I recognize those voices." >> Wow.

Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. That's the good news. If they're like, "Wa, I didn't know." You go, "Hey, we'll show you the way." There was no magic tricks here. You guys worked really hard.

You served your country well. You invested for the future.

>> Yes, sir. So, in 2002, the Army came out with the TSP, and you're well familiar with that. >> Oh, yeah. Savings plan. I watched that for about a year and then I I went all in in January of 2003 and then I kept

that while I was in um active duty. When I retired, I rolled it into my civilian TSP and now it's just one big one now that's growing. And my wife, she did, and this is what I tell people like it's never too late. My wife worked 11 years civil service. The last 10 was consecutive. She dumped um she maxed it

out every year with ketchup funds as well. And then she retired after 10 years. And now that her TSP has grown to

over a million dollars in 10 years of investing. >> It's crazy what some intentionality does and the alignment. That's the really inspiring part about you guys. I can tell you're in sync. I mean, you're passing the ball to Kim, she's passing it back to you, Ali, you guys. That that speaks to a great marriage, which then turns into a strong financial future.

So, thank you for inspiring us and everybody listening that it's still possible. 57 years old, 56 years old, worth3.5 million,0 in inheritance. He's

driving an 09 Accord. She's got the 22 Pilot as it should be. [music] I want to be them one day.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Okay, picture this. You sit down to do your taxes, but instead of stressing out, you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti when you're done. Okay, not that last part, but Ramsay Smart Tax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry. Ramsey Smart Tax is a 100% accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years.

So go to ramseyolutions.com/smarttax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress-free filing.

[music]

Our scripture of the day, John 16:33. I

have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world. James Clear

said, "When you can't win by being better, you can win by being different."

That's how I've got to where I am today. [laughter] Jade, >> I knew you were gonna make that about you somehow. >> Not the sharpest in the room, but I'm unique. >> You are unique. You're one of a kind.

There's only one George Camel. >> There you go. All right. Mindy is in College Station, Texas. Up next. What's going on, Mindy?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Great. How can Jade and I help today?

>> All right. So, I have been debtree. I

have no student loans. I am a senior in college and looking into moving out within the next year, uh, buying a house. And I have no credit score. and one of my professors kind of got into my head. I'm wondering how to best build a credit score without going into debt.

>> Great question. And by the way, I'm so proud of you. You know how weird it is that you are debtree and graduating college with no credit score?

>> Absolutely. >> It's a good thing. Way to go.

>> Yeah. >> So, what's your excited about it?

>> What's your current living situation? Are you at your parents? Are you in the dorm? Where are you right now?

>> Yes, I'm living with my parents at home.

Okay. Are you paying them any type of rent or just totally >> No, I lucked out. I am living rentree,

able to work only four hours a week at a

practically minimum wage job uh while

going through college.

>> Okay. And what will your job be when you

graduate?

>> I'm looking into government agricultural

work. >> Okay. And what will that pay?

uh somewhere around 70,000.

>> Okay, cool. A year. >> So, you're not technically ready to buy a house. You're just thinking about what you will need to be ready to buy a house. >> And is that the big reason for wanting a credit score, wanting to build it?

>> Correct. So, I'm in a deed of trust state. Um which means that no uh court

if I default on a mortgage and some of

the uh mortgage companies are a bit more harsh. So, I am wanting to have a good credit score when I graduate from college. >> Got it. But you're not going to be buying a house out of college.

>> No, not directly. >> So, you'll be renting for a while.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. And you can rent easily without a credit score. If you are employed, pass a background check, and you have enough money to cover a potentially higher security deposit, which you'll get back when you move out, they will rent to you.

And so, don't believe people who are like, "Well, you're going to need a credit score to rent an apartment still." I have rented many an apartment without a credit score. They just want to know, can you pay? Are you a criminal? And if not, they go, well, since we don't have the credit score, you'll pay a higher deposit.

That way, there's a little more skin in the game on your part. So, don't worry about that. >> Good to know. >> So, then let's talk about the idea.

We know you won't need it to rent. Let's talk about shifting you from the whole mindset of, well, I might need a credit score for something, uh, Jaden George, and we're going to just s suggest that you don't need to build a credit score for any reason because right now, I mean, think about it.

There must have be there must be a reason that you decided to go through your life with no debt. And the only way to build a credit score would be you having to get into debt.

>> Okay? And when you do get to that point of buying a house, which you know, and getting a mortgage, there's a process that I've been through called manual underwriting. You may have heard about it. And here's what's I'll tell you the exact things that are required cuz I did in-depth research for my book, which I'll send you, Mindy.

There's a whole chapter on credit scores and how to live without one where it's super nerdy. And here's the exact step. So, here's what you will need to get a credit to get a mortgage without a credit score. You'll need verification of income for the past 12 to 24 months.

>> Correct. >> You'll have rental payment history, 12 months of documented on-time payments.

You'll have that. >> You need 12 month history of your savings and bank statements, which you'll have that.

And then one or more regular monthly expenses as an alternative trade line.

So, think utilities, cell phone bills, anything that you've had to pay monthly, uh, that will count as well. And for anybody listening who's thinking of the same thing, if you are self-employed, you'll probably have to show your your tax uh return history for the previous

year. So, >> there's a little more risk there with self-employed folks to make sure their income will stay that way. So, that's Mindy. That's all you need. And you can reach out to our friends at Church Hill Mortgage as you get closer and they can help you in your area go here's exactly what you need. And the truth is, here's what they do. They do manual underwriting, which means no computer runs it. There's no credit score.

There's no automated underwriting. And so a real person looks at all this information to grant you the loan and essentially give you a quote unquote good credit score.

>> Okay? >> So that's what happened to me. As long as you do 15-year fixed rate mortgage with at least 10% down, that's the other thing is you got to do it the Ramsay way, not going, well, I'm going to put 3% down on a, you know, USDA loan on a

30-year. You're going to have a harder time doing that. But if you're a strong borrower, meaning 15 year and 10% down, they go, "All right, or 20% even better." And so that's what I would be focusing on is just stacking cash since you're doing so good instead of worrying about, "Do I need to open a credit card and start building my score and keep up% do not >> I would spend your energy elsewhere." >> Sounds good. Thank you so much.

>> Yeah, thanks for the call. And uh hang on the line. Kelly's going to pick up.

We'll get you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, which breaks all of that down for you. Hunter is in Arkansas up next. Hunter, what's going on? >> Hey, man.

How y'all doing? >> We're doing great. We're running a little short on time, so get right to the question. Let's see if we can help you.

>> Yeah, man. So, basically, uh, sum it all up. I'm just trying to do better at trying not to live paycheck to paycheck, you know.

>> Yeah, the first thing, you know, paycheck to paycheck is usually a symptom of a bigger problem. You're just feeling the effects of something bigger.

It's usually a spending problem or an income problem. So tell us a little bit about your income.

>> Right. So this past year I just cleared

over 117,000 and my total bills for each month is

roughly around 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. >> And uh so yeah, I roughly make after

taxes 1,400 a week. That gives me a little bit of uh once I move everything to my bills account, I roughly have $550 to $600 a week after that to spend

freely. >> So you're bringing home 7273,000 or so and your expenses are 36,000 a

year. So you should have half your income sitting somewhere, but you're saying it's disappearing and you're not able to cover all the bills.

>> Well, no, it's not necessarily I'm not covering bills. I got the bills are taken care of. Like I got a whole another account where it automatically direct deposits into my bills account.

So those are all on autopay. It's just more so the the free spending money as well as trying to cut into me trying to save some of that as well.

>> Do you have any debt?

>> Yes. So I I got a truck payment, uh a

sideby-side payment, student loans, and rent. >> Student loans. How much are the student loans?

Uh the balance is right at $11,000 and the payment is $121 a month.

>> Okay. What do you owe on the truck and what do you owe on the side by side?

>> The truck I owe49,000 and the side I owe 23,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> There's your problem right there. My >> ding ding ding. We found a winner.

>> Yeah, dude. You got $73,000 in toys going down in value and you make a little over 100,000. It's just simply way too much. Which means I think uh one

or both of these things should be sold to free up a whole lot of income. What's the payment on the side by side and the truck?

>> The truck is uh 1,130

and the side is 575.

>> Woo. And what's your rent every month?

>> Well, we split it so it's 475. So my part is 475. >> Goodness. Your your truck payment is like triple your rent, >> right?

Do you see the problem here? You're going, "Hey, I'm living a paycheck to paycheck." It's like, "Doctor, what's going on? I don't know why I'm in pain." And we're like, "Dude, you got a knife in your back. That's what's going on." It's the truck and the side by side.

>> It's that. And I mean, for a guy who's making, you know, I don't know. What did you tell me? 1,400 bucks a week. I You're spending on something. You Do you have a girlfriend?

>> Yeah, I do. Yes, sir. >> All right. Do you have a budget?

>> Uh, no. >> We try It's in my head.

>> It's a mental budget.

>> Yeah, that's I think that's your big problem. I mean, don't get me wrong, this truck and this side by side are a problem. You need to sell um one of them probably instantly and then do the work to pay off the other, but uh you got to

get on a budget first and foremost. I think if you get on an every dollar budget, you're going to see where all this money is slipping through the cracks. My guess is it's on social life.

I think you're at that. like you get off work, go get a drink with your boys, take your girl out, going out on the weekends, all of those things. >> Door Dash here, Uber Eats there.

>> Kelly's going to pick up and make sure you get set up with every dollar so you can get back on track. >> We're rooting for you, man. This is a solvable problem. All right, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 242. When You Feel Overwhelmed, Control the Controllables | September 12, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the Rachel Cruz show. My daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Before we go to the phones, we're just going to take a second and

get off format a little bit. Off format because some of you will hear all of this in another day or so. Some of you that listen on podcast and things, you might hear it two weeks from now. But uh acknowledging that uh we do do this show live from 1 to 4 central time every day

on the glass in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions and people nice people are out there right now watching us do it. Uh which means they really need to get a hobby and um but there they are.

>> We love y'all. >> We love you. We love you but I mean come on really. And so uh but the uh anyway you're here and thank you for hanging out with us.

We got free coffee and free cookies. So that that makes that makes it all worthwhile. >> So anyway, because of that and and the show is on 680 talk radio stations. Many of those are live.

And so just to let you guys that are listening two weeks from now understand what's going on.

And so uh which I noticed the other day I noticed a minute ago it's called Patriots Day. I missed that somehow that it had been named, >> but the acknowledgement of the terror

attacks on the towers, bringing the towers down >> in the Pentagon >> in in the Pentagon and 3,000 plus almost

4,000 people losing their lives, including first responders in very short period of time. The largest death toll

on American soil uh since Pearl Harbor.

And um I was actually on the air then when that occurred. This this show's been on the air for 30 plus years. Uh we were obviously in a different location with a microphone that was not this nice, but because we were >> I guess it would be later that day because they were at 9:30 a.m.

>> We were in the office in staff meeting in the 8:30 a.m. our time.

>> That's right. That's right. >> Um is and 8:35 is when we sat and

watched the second one on live on television and going to the towers. And then um we've got to decide with a show like this, what are we going to do in the middle of something like that?

because we're basically useless. We're not a news organization. And so, um, we,

uh, got in touch with our friends at ABC, uh, because they were they're in

charge of the satellite that we run this thing on for talk radio. And we got their permission to just put their news feed on our network. And we did that for two days uh and just shut our show down because there me commenting on that would have been taken about five minutes and then I wouldn't have anything intelligent to say because I didn't know anything. Nobody knew anything.

I was just a regular dude on a microphone in Nashville, Tennessee. And so I didn't need to try to play into that. So we stepped aside and let them cover it for a couple days and then I got back on on Friday. The stock market reopened on Tuesday following >> Well, it was Tuesday was the day it happened.

So I bet >> it it was a week later. Yeah. I got back on the air by Thursday, I guess Thursday or Friday, and said, "Hey, the stock market's going to open next week. You guys chill." So then I had something to tell.

>> I think I realized that it closed for almost a full week. >> Yeah, it was well for two reasons. One was the fear. So didn't want the markets to go bananas.

is literally the dust was had not settled on it. It was it's it's under the shadow of the Twin Towers or was under the shadow of the Twin Towers. And so, um, it it didn't it didn't actually get physically damaged, but it was within a few blocks or so there. That's what we were dealing with. So, anyway, all of that and here we sit in the middle of this, and this is the day after the assassination of our friend Charlie Kirk. And so, all of that um is

just a just a moment to be reflective and go, evil is real. I was on a panel

after 911 and I was reminded of it

yesterday when Charlie was assassinated.

um that uh and it was like talk radio

ABC guy. I won't name them. They were people that you would know their names.

And uh Wolf Blitzer from CNN was

conducting the panel. We were at a talk radio convention, which a talk radio convention guys is somewhat like going to a Star Wars bar. So, um kind of some

weird characters there. So anyway, we're we're lined up on this thing and uh I ain't they're all doing politics and talking about this or that or whatever and and Wolf said, "Well, Dave, you haven't had much to say." And one of the other hosts was uh like a Delhoney type

character doing relationship stuff. And she said, "Well, I think we now have to consider that evil is real." And I said, "Well, ma'am, I'm from Tennessee. We already knew it was." And um we were just reminded again yesterday. uh 911 we remember evil is

real. Uh there is a conspiracy and it's

called Satan. Evil is real. And then

you're reminded when you witness things like that um at a distance and like we witnessed yesterday with Charlie's assassination, evil is real. Don't know

who evil got to do its work for sure

yet, but we do know evil's real.

>> Yeah. And uh so and and that that is

that's a world view period. Um and in

today's moment with everyone so

uh fired up to say the least one way or the other um that just me saying that's going to be confident uh uh controversial and like I've really care what you think about that. But it's okay. I'll deal with it. But so it it's it's very real. It's a real thing and

there are things outside of our control.

The weird thing is we spend all of the things all our time on this show teaching you to control the things you can control. >> Yeah, >> you can't control that. I can't control

that. But I can control how I react. I can control how I treat other people in the meantime. I can control how I treat my family. um I uh I I can control

uh much of what happens in my destiny is up to me and and so we try to keep people back on that rather than you're you're not a victim of circumstances and you're not a victim of a systemic evil

that is uh loose in the land and is very

real regardless of who the players are, who the individual players in the flesh are, there's definitely a systemic thing going on. And uh so we can step back and look at that and go, Jesus, come quickly. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's just uh >> Lord have mercy. I mean, it's >> have mercy on us, Lord. And uh and and protect, you know, your children. So, um

but wow. Wow. What a crazy thing. So, you do have choices and we're going to go back to reminding you of that in just a few minutes because we spent our entire lives reminding of that. You have choices and um you have made some bad ones. Some of you like I have made bad ones. Uh, I made so many bad ones that it gave me a PhD in DUMB and, uh,

qualifies me uniquely to, uh, be the cause of this show to happen every day.

And so, um, I'm not telling you you

anything you've done, I've done dumber with more zeros on the end. So, I know exactly what stupid looks like. I'm uniquely qualified to call it out. So, we'll get back to doing that in just a few minutes here, but we want to take a second and pause and just remember 911

and the families that were affected there decades later. Um, decades now.

Wow. It's crazy, isn't it?

>> Also remember where I was sitting when I when I heard that the SEAL team had gotten Osama bin Laden.

>> I know exactly where I was sitting. >> Yep. >> And uh that was kind of joyful moment.

One le one one less evil thing moving around out there. >> A good thing. >> Good thing. >> Heavy day.

[Music]

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[Music]

6 60 66.

All right, guys.

So, we're going to continue to walk down memory lane and then we're going to get to your calls. But uh 25 years ago

joining the Ramsay team was a guy named Bob Borquez. He's sitting in the booth right now cuz he's multi-talented. He can do almost anything. His main job in the old days was to call and get new radio stations to carry what was then called the Money Game, later called the Dave Ramsey Show and now called the Ramsay Show. Um he has put well over 700

radio stations on the air with us. We currently have 680. You can't keep them.

They go away sometimes. And so, uh, over that 25 years, so the Ramsay show success, the network and talk radio land, uh, was on the shoulders of a guy named Bob Borquez. He's 25 years with us, 66 years old, and he's retiring this month. So, uh, you guys, >> this is so sad, Bob.

>> Yeah, Bob, it's not it's not even going to be I don't know how we're operate without you. I mean, it's like we don't know what to do. But, yeah, so he's, uh, >> just the best guy. an absolute Ramsay uh star of the show around here for all these years.

And you don't you don't build something of this scale, of this magnitude without having a whole bunch of thoroughbredads around you.

>> Wonderful husband, wonderful dad.

>> Yes, he is. >> Strong believer, loves Jesus. He's just incredible. Bob, we're going to miss you. >> Yeah, good man. And um been an honor to work with you all these years. >> Thank you. Thank you, Dave. Thank you for hiring me and giving me a chance.

I've loved working with you under your leadership and being with this Ramsey family. It's been such a blessing. >> Yeah, you're a good man. Mark is in Memphis. Mark, how are you?

>> I'm doing great, Mr. David. How you doing, sir? >> Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help? >> Man, I got a quick question for you. Um, I got a pretty good uh financial plans.

At least I believe it's a good financial plan set up, but I want to run it by you. I trust your judgment better than mine. Um, currently, um, I make, uh,

$80,000 of, u guaranteed, I would say guaranteed income. I can explain that in a second. Uh, total debt I have, $137,000, that is $111,000 of a mortgage, $16,000

of a home equity line of credit, and $9,500 on a car payment. I have no

credit cards, um, no other debt besides those three items. My current plan is to

pay off the home equity line first just

because that's where most of my money has been going being more interest. Um

the second attack was the car payment and the last was the mortgage and the current plan I have set up. Everything should be paid off. Um by the time I'm I

think it's 37. I'm currently 28 years old. Um, and going back to the income, say the $80,000 of uh current income of

a guaranteed income, I also bring home

um another $20,000 or so and bonuses.

>> Okay. So, you're making 100K and you've got $25,000 in debt plus your mortgage.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Well, I would I would flip the heliloc mark and the car. I would pay the car off first. And if I were you, I mean, I would I would be aggressive. I would do this. Um, I I would look at the consumer debt first and not the mortgage. So, I would separate it out. I would look at that $9,000 and see how fast we can get that car paid off. And the heliloc would be next. And then from

there, there's probably some other financial goals you may want to hit before even, you know, getting to that mortgage. Um, but that that's what I would do. And I think you could do that.

I think it'll be I think you'll do it faster than nine years. Personally, Mark, I think I think you'll be able to attack this stuff quick, but especially the car. I would go ahead and get that out cuz how much is your payment per month on the car?

>> Uh, the car payment is 460 465 a month.

>> See what what you should at a minimum >> you ought to be done in a year. That's $2,000 a month, not counting the house.

>> Correct. >> $2,000 a month you're done. And so that tells us with 460 plus 2,000 a month uh

on the car that's um you know 2500 on

9,000 that tells us in 3 months and some change the car is gone and then we knock the other the other out in the next 9 months. And so when you do it that quickly Mark the interest rate on either

one of these things doesn't matter because you're not going to have it very long.

>> Yes, sir. >> So we always tell you to pay what Rachel's doing the smallest off first.

Um, if you're 100% debtree other than your house in one year, you you've not done anything dumb either way. But I think you'll have better results. And we've proven it by paying off the smallest first. And we teach a thing called the baby steps. And in baby step two, you pay off your debts, smallest to largest, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance and then move on up. Um, and then yeah,

I think your house will be paid off that quick because you got a very modest mortgage, been very wise in that regard, >> and you make really good money. So, congratulations. Hey, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. It gives you the all the details on the baby steps, exactly why, when, and how to work them. And dude,

work them in exactly that order. It's proven to build millionaires. It absolutely works. Melissa's in North Carolina. Hi, Melissa. How are you?

Hangy. I'm all right. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I guess my main question is, can you ever graduate from baby step number four? Uh, and to go into that, my spouse is military and, um, so we have never

bought a house because we didn't want to trap ourselves into having a mortgage and also a rent or a second mortgage.

So, um, we, uh, were mainly just really

aggressive with, um, retirement. Um, and

then also we had a child about two years ago and we were aggressive with a 529 plan. So, we feel pretty good about where that's at. And so, when that's when my spouse retires next year, um,

should we really scale down on uh the,

you know, the retirement savings. Um, um, so right now we've got about 225K in

all the different retirement accounts, mainly TSP. Uh, >> way to go, Melissa. Oh, well, >> way to go. It feels pretty good, doesn't it? >> Start it early. Uh, and >> and thanks, tell your husband thanks for his service. So, I I would just use a different phrasing than graduate. So,

you may have heard us talk about when you finish baby step three, you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses saved and you uh

are out of debt except your home. If you don't have a home, that's the point that people will start saving for a down payment on a home. Typically, you're not in that situation. And we call that baby step 3B. And when they're doing the save for the down payment thing in 3B, some people put money into their baby step four and some don't. Okay. While they're

saving for a down payment. And so what's

happened is is you didn't buy a house as a strategic move yet. And that was a wise move. I agree with your strategy.

Now when he gets out of the military, you are going to buy a house. And so really what that's going to do is it's going to put you back to baby step 3B.

And you might temporarily put retirement and kids college on hold, but not

because you graduated, but because you're you're kind of going back, you're stopping to get your down payments.

>> Did you say he's retiring, Melissa, next year? >> Yes. So, he'll have a pension. So, that's another reason why when I do the calculations up in the numbers of the way, 225 will, you know, increase, you

know, in theory over the next 30 years because we're 36. So, um, yeah. So, so

that's why I wondered, >> no, you don't, you never stop saving

permanently.

>> Okay. >> So, no, I disagree with we got a good military pension and 225 is enough. No, I would always be >> doing three things with money uh once I'm out of debt. I would always be having fun with it, investing it, and being generous. You never graduate from those three things.

>> Okay. Got it. So, we can scale back. We

can scale back the 15. >> Or stop it. Or stop it while you save a down payment. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And if And hey, you're two years out.

You could stop it now.

>> Oh. Uh, okay. All right.

>> And and save, you know, save like crazy right now for a down payment. Has he got his new career picked out?

>> Uh, not yet. Um, he also has, you know,

education benefits. So, >> I know, but he needs to get it picked out. two years is going to be here in about 20 seconds.

>> Oh, absolutely. But career-wise, yes. Uh he wants to work with computers uh uh in

like network security.

>> Oh, that's great. >> That's great. >> Yeah. Phenomenal. Okay. Yeah. So, move on from the military. >> And that's a next that's an exciting step when you when you do retire from that. You guys get to be settled in in a city. You get to buy a home. You get to plant roots. I mean, yeah. It's a fun next season for you guys. The next chapter >> and you've earned it serving your country for 20 years. Thank you.

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>> Mary is with us in Virginia. Hi, Mary.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Yeah, if I'm calling trying to get your advice on what we should do, my husband and I, with a large sum of money that we're going to be getting over the next 5 years or so, send it to Dave's Bahama

Fund.

That does sound nice. >> Dave's Dave's Virgin Island fund. Yeah.

So, how what's a large what's a large sum? How much >> we should be getting after taxes? About half a million. You're selling a business, >> correct? We're starting business.

>> That's awesome. >> Thank you. >> How fun. How long have you run the business? >> Yeah, we're excited. >> Well, so actually it's a family business that I just have share in and we've decided to move on as a family.

>> Wow. >> So that's my share.

>> How many gener How many generations?

>> Three. >> And what what kind of business? Just curious. >> It's a hospitality. Well, it's actually like a restaurant and a gift shop. Um but it's still going to be with my family. issues being sold is kind of complicated. >> Oh, one one family member is buying out the rest. >> Pretty much, more or less. >> Okay. Wow. Well, that's cool. I'm sorry.

I just I love family business stories and I study it and I coach a lot of family businesses. Our our team does through entre leadership. So, I was just curious about the details. Well, wonderful.

Half million bucks and you want to know what to do with it, >> right? We have a little bit of a not so straightforward future. Uh the next 5 years, my husband is actually leaving the military. Um and he's going back to school.

He wants to be a doctor. He's wanted that for a long time. Um I'm a physical therapist and I'm also I'm working part-time and then also taking care of our kids. So we're just trying to figure out the wisest way to spend this money without um as much financial security.

>> He wants to be an MD >> for the next 5 years.

>> And how much is the military going to pay for that? How much of that are they going to pay? >> Is free. We will pay nothing >> all the way through med school.

>> All the way through. >> Wow. >> That's amazing. Well, thank you for your service. That's awesome.

>> Okay, so you don't need that, but you may need money to eat with while he's not working and going through that, >> right? And we have So, our monthly expenses are about 6,000 and based on like his different payouts from the military, we have about $4,000 coming in every month whether I work or not. Okay.

>> Um, so we have about $2,000 deficit a month. Um, and then we on top of that we have 125,000 in cash like high yield savings and then 180 in liquid investments like stock market and then 350 in retirement. >> Do you have any debt? >> Good job. >> No debt. No. >> Even on the house?

>> No, we do owe sorry we do owe about 230 on our mortgage. >> Okay. >> It's worth about 450.

>> Okay. Um, we may or may not be moving depending on he's actually applying to med schools now, so we're not sure exactly where we'll be. We're hoping to stay in the area. >> Okay. >> Do you want to continue working, Mary, part-time? Is that something that you enjoy or would you step back from that even?

>> You know, I do enjoy it and I want to keep my skills up. Um, I'm a physical therapist by trade, so I I don't know

that I want to be responsible for the whole load of you. I want to have a back stop should I not want to work or we would like to have more kids and things like that. >> Sure. Absolutely.

>> Okay. So, you have a mortgage balance of what again? >> 230. >> 230.

>> 230. >> Okay. And you have 300 in in liquid and in high yield and you're getting another 500. So, you got 800 to work with, right?

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, it's just the only thing is with the payouts they it depends on how they decide to pay them out.

It's going to be over the next 5 years.

>> be Yeah. It could be a hundred each year or something. >> Correct. >> Okay. It's going to be more than $2,000 a month though, >> right? For sure. >> All right. So, um All right. So, well,

as soon as you know if you're staying in the area, if you are, pay off the house that day, whether you've got this money or not, because you got enough money in the bank now to do that. And you should have already done that.

>> Yeah. And we thought about it. We just with our future is so uncertain.

>> Well, as soon as you soon as you know to us, soon as you know when where he's going to med school, >> then you know if you're going to stay in that house, right? That's going to be in what the next year, right?

>> Right. >> Okay. Then pay off the house if you're staying. Okay.

>> Okay. Now, now your expenses just went down. Hello. >> Right.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And then we're going to take the rest of it uh from the sale of the restaurant and the portion that we also didn't use because you have 300.

You only need 230 to pay off the house. And by the time you get to it, you probably only need 210 to pay off the house.

that we endorse. We don't do investments, but if I were in your shoes, I would put this in good growth stock mutual funds. Uh, I would look for some low turnover funds, which that means they don't sell the stocks inside them very often. Uh, they're they're fairly uh conservative funds. They're not very exciting, but you also don't have a lot of taxes on them. And uh, you

know, if they earn 10% and you had

$600,000 to work with, that'd be 60,000 a year. That'd be 5,000 a month. You're not going to have all of that initially, but eventually that's where you'll get to.

Mhm. And so you would recommend the stock market even if we're not playing like if we do need to take some of that out. >> Why would you need to take some of it out?

>> Well, just for monthly expenses if I'm not working. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We just covered monthly expenses.

>> I want you to begin taking out the income off of it.

>> If you invest 600 and it makes 60 a

year, they'll send you a check for $5,000 a month out of that.

>> Right now I understand. Thank you.

>> Okay. and and we're not going to touch it. Uh we're but we're gonna leave the goose that's laying the golden eggs alone.

>> Yeah. The initial investment >> that that's the portion that goes in there. And so yeah, the day you know where if you're going to stay in town or not, you pay off the house. If you move, buy a house of equal dollar amount as

you have now or less >> and do the same plan.

>> Okay?

Don't use moving as an excuse to move up in house while he's in med school.

>> Yeah. No, >> you can move again after he gets out of med school. >> Right. >> And you might very well move again after he gets out of med school anyway.

>> And more depending upon his income versus this. >> Yeah. Well, based on his income, but you also might move cities after you leave med school. >> Oh, yeah.

>> You might get a great offer with a great hospital and a city you'd rather live in than where the med school is. >> How long will that take? Mary, do you know the program that he wants to do and everything?

>> It really depends. No. So med school is like the Yeah. Next one more five more years essentially and then he's got three years at least after that of residency. So the pay there is less than six figures typically. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but again more than enough for us to live on >> with the other incomes that we have.

>> You've done such a wonderful job if you use this nest egg you called about plus

your normal operating procedure which you guys are very careful and you're very good planners. you've done an excellent job. >> If you do all of that, this is very very doable with no debt at all >> and living completely debtree the entire time and your your wealth will continue to grow and then when he comes out of residency, it's going to go zoom zoom.

>> Okay. And Dave, you just said a Mazda zoom zoom. I know you're a car guy. If I do need a new car with growing family, would you support like using some of this money to buy? >> Yeah. We just want to be real careful because if we take the leg off the goose >> and then we take another leg off the goose, >> right? >> Pretty soon your goose is cooked.

>> Yeah. >> So, don't be messing Don't be messing with that principle. Okay.

>> Bad thing. >> But get a car.

>> Yeah. Get a car. I mean, you're making Listen, you told me you need $2,000 a month. We just gave you $5,000 a month.

So save up and buy a car. I mean, you got plenty of money coming in off of this, >> but no, I would not support using the goose. Leave the principal alone.

>> You wouldn't use any of the half a million dollars to get a car. >> You don't need to. You got the money.

Crap. Right now, they got the money. If they pay off, if they have 300k in the bank in these two accounts and they pay off 230, they got 90. What kind of car does this woman need? Yes. >> Okay. So, there we go. >> Maybe a $90 Suburban. We don't know.

>> Well, maybe not. Maybe not. Your husband's in med school. Maybe not.

Maybe we're driving a cheaper Suburban.

>> I know. An older >> or a minivan. >> There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's important. Yeah. >> Great. >> But yeah. Yeah. I don't be >> No, I hear you. It's good. >> The work develop a game plan and then work the system and then don't get all antsy and jump the system. That That's where That's the whole issue here. You guys have been doing a really good job of that. I'll say it again. I don't think you're going to mess this up, but just I know I've got about 35 other

million people listening who might mess it up. So, >> we just kind of want to make sure that >> while we're talking to Mary, we know there's people he's dropping. There we go.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. New trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, either Rachel or Jade or George. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar. Since I started doing this with a yellow pad, long before there was a sophisticated piece of software to show you exactly, an app to show you exactly how to work our system, including the budget, just doing a budget.

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And you can ask questions during the live Q&A. And you're going to learn how to get out of debt. Why? So you can become wealthy because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.jim is in Texas. Hey Jim, how are you?

>> Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> I need some advice on how I can break it

to my wife that we are broke and that we are $500,000 in debt.

>> Wow. >> Why does she not know this?

>> I take care of all of our finances. Um,

she has a credit card that she swipes and doesn't have to worry about anything. Um, >> yes, she should. It's >> just something that I've taken advantage of and, you know, gotten us even deeper with not including her in this

uh spending ordeal.

>> Mhm. >> How long y'all been married?

>> We've been together since we were 16 and we're I'm 26 and she is 25.

>> You got married when you were 16?

>> 10 years. No, we've been dating since 16 and we got married in 2022.

>> She'd been married three years.

Yes. >> Grant up a half a million dollars in debt in three years.

>> Yes. >> What the crap did you buy?

>> Well, I went from an income of 25,000 in

2022 to an income of 160 150,000 in 23.

And then year to date for 25, I'm at

195,000 just myself.

>> Yeah. That doesn't explain how you want a half million dollars in debt. your income. >> Your house too, Jim. Does that include your house?

>> It does. >> How much do you owe on your home?

>> 330,000. >> Okay. She knows that.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what is the other $170,000 in

debt? >> We have two vehicle loans and majority of the other debt is credit cards.

>> Okay. So, the two vehicle loans amount to what?

>> My vehicle is 50,000 and hers is 35.

Okay. And and she's aware of those.

>> She is. >> Okay. And and so >> which those are just reoccurring payments that >> I know. I know. But she's not it's not like she The way you describe this like there's a half million dollars in debt my wife doesn't know about. Yes, she does. >> It's about 80,000 of credit card debt that she may not understand is floating out there, >> but she's been running running her credit card around like she's in Congress. So, she probably has a clue about that, too.

>> She may not think it's 80. She may think 15 to 20. Okay. You guys are you guys are you said 26 years old.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's re let's frame reframe

this a little bit then. Okay. Uh what you're really asking is how do I get my wife to get on a plan because our current plan sucks.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Not how do I tell her about a half million dollars in debt she doesn't know. Cuz that's not true. She does know about it. Yeah. >> All right. So, what I would do is say this. Say, "Hun, I gave this a shot. I'm a new husband. I didn't know what I was doing. But I am getting very afraid with

our current trajectory that even though we make a lot of money that we're going to be broke. And we are really broke right now making $190,000 a year. We have car payments, we have house payments, we have credit cards are out of control. And you and I are going to have to work together to get on a different system than the one we've been using.

Because the one we've been using, which is me just doing letting you do anything you want to do and me not telling anybody anything, those are two really bad ideas and we're going to stop doing that. >> Yeah. Yeah.

I can't and I'm sorry I haven't told you about the credit card. Like >> this is everything. >> I don't think you were deceiving someone. Uh I think you're concerned that you you've never told her no and now you get the opportunity for her to be an adult and tell herself no.

>> Correct. Yes. How do you think that's going to go?

>> She's easy going. I think it'll go okay.

Um, it's just handing the ball over to someone else. >> No, we're not handing the ball over to somebody else.

The two of you are going to sit down together like two grown-ups instead of daddy and daughter.

>> Okay? >> You're like a daddy spoiling his only daughter.

Instead, you're going to say, "Honey, we're going to sit down like two adults now, and here's how much money is coming in, >> and here's what we owe on the house, and here's what we have to pay on these stupid cars, and we make $190,000 a

year, and we're broke because we're out of control. We don't have a system,

>> and we buy everything in sight. So, we together need to figure out how we as two grown-ups are going to exist on freaking 200 grand a year at 26 years old." way.

>> Well, that's just my income.

>> What does she make including hers? >> What does she make? >> Uh 55,000 a year.

>> Well, then let's try it again. 100 or $245,000 a year. We make a quarter of a million dollars a year and we are broke.

>> So, because our system sucks so bad, >> we start on Xing out some of this debt.

>> I recommend that the two of you sit down and have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and say, "Here's what our total income is per month. here's what we have to spend on the house. Here's what we have to spend on these cars. We have this much in credit card debt and we have to buy some food and lights.

Let's figure this out. And all of a sudden, you guys are going to go, "Holy crap, we're out of control." Both of you are going to have that moment. You've already had the moment. You're just trying to figure out how to navigate the fact that you're not doing it by yourself anymore.

Dude, that was a bad idea to start with, and we're stopping that right now because you get two benefits. One is you get another brain involved to help you. Uh the other thing the benefit you get is you don't have to carry all the stress by yourself. Yeah.

Oh, and the other benefit is she suddenly is as a grown-up is going to buy into a future plan.

>> Yeah. And the good thing is Jim, you guys are going to see as you start mapping this out. It's going to be Yeah.

It's going to be fast. I mean like after taxes >> Okay. >> If after taxes and you guys say you lived on 90,000, you know, that frees up. It's like oh my gosh. I mean you debtree in a year. >> Yeah. $110,000 put towards this debt.

Well, you could be completely >> I haven't filed for 2024.

>> What? What' you say?

>> Okay, put that on the list. >> I haven't filed my taxes.

>> What do you owe there? What What do you owe there? What will the tax bill be?

>> I just spoke with the tax lady today. Um

I paid 25,000 in 2023.

So, I'm reckoning.

>> You've not set any money aside for your taxes? Are you 1099 or something?

>> I am 1099. >> Okay. And you've not done any quarterly estimates?

>> I have not. >> Your tax lady sucks.

>> How in the world are you making that kind of money and not doing quarterly estimates? >> What?

>> She did and I moved on to another tax lady. >> Oh, she wanted to do >> quarterly estimates.

>> No, she didn't give me any advice, nowhere to go. Just kind of send me what your income is and I'll tell you what you owe. >> Okay. Yeah. Go to Ramseysolutions.com and you can find one of the endorsed local providers for taxes. The Ramsey trusted people to help. You need to be doing quarterly estimates. But now you got another 25,000 or 40,000 or whatever it is. It's on this list >> of things you've got to address. But dude, you got to start you seven. Yeah.

Yeah. You guys can start knocking this out, Jim. So, what I would do is sit down tonight. You guys need to list out all of your debt. I would include the IRS bill in that and that'll be first.

Then list out every credit card and what you guys owe on it. >> Cut them up. both car loans, cut them up, be done with it, and you start working your way the smallest debt first. Well, the IRS is going to be paid, so get that paid.

>> But this is not you telling your wife what to do. No, >> this is you saying, "Honey, join me in being a grown-up and living on less than we make." >> And that you're not going to do this by yourself anymore, Jim. And tell her that that every month we're going to sit down and relook at this plan. >> I need some help.

I need you to walk together.

Just wave the white flag like Rachel said and you guys are young. >> Surrender. You got plenty of time this >> you make a lot of money.

>> You guys could be multi-millionaires [Music] this >> if you get in control of this and just,

you know, quit kicking the can down the road.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at

888255225.

Cheryl is with us in Atlanta. Hey Cheryl, how are you? I'm doing okay.

>> Good. How can I help?

>> Okay. Um, I have cleaning service in Atlanta. I make about three thou uh 13,000 a month. I started the Dave

Ramsey plan and paid off over half my debt in the past six months. However, uh the first two years when I started my business, I thought I had won the lottery with all the extra money and then um I got in some bad behaviors with

spending. Um, so I incurred about like 50 $45,000 in debt. Um, but I've I'm

down to 20,000. I've been crushing it this year. I've every uh I've got the every dollar and I've been budgeting. We don't eat out. We eat cheap. Um, I've cut spending um a lot.

>> Yeah, thanks. Um, but so I have not been

saving for my taxes. No, that this year instead of writing off so many expenses, I want to claim more because I would like a house one day. Uh, but I have not saved up for maybe 16,000 in taxes. So,

how can I save this up and still pay my operating costs as well as my own bills?

I want to catch this before April.

>> Good. You're getting ahead of it a little bit. Okay. So, your taxes for last year are paid, but not not for 24.

Yeah, I've been writing off I only I only I wrote uh the income was like 156 and the tax person got it down to like maybe I made on paper 14,000. So I tried

stop you are under the illusion that

there are mysterious ghost columns that are not actual expenses that can be written off. Those don't exist.

If you only made 14,000 for tax purposes, that means you only made 14,000.

>> Yeah. like writing off like >> no honey, that means you won't make a freaking profit. Your business is barely open.

>> Okay, >> those are actual expenses that you write off. There's no other thing except depreciation schedules. And you don't have any of those in a business your size.

So, you're really not making any money.

>> You've gotten confused. Okay, let's stop a second. Let's just have a basic business primer here for a second. All right, business works like this. Gross revenues are the total intake that you bring in from the customer. Your total revenue, >> correct? >> That is apparently about 13,000 a month.

Does that sound right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Then you have the business expenses that it takes to actually operate the business in order to make

the 13,000 come in the door. Those expenses are called expenses. They're subtracted from the 13,000.

What is left is called profit.

That is taxable.

>> Yes.

>> Period. >> Okay. Yes, sir. I was just going off of um like the last year. This year I've been doing my um own P&Ls and I'm much more I was having other people do it because >> So, wait a minute. If you >> if you're doing your own P&Ls, you shouldn't be getting a different answer.

>> Yeah. Right. >> P&L is a P&L. >> This year has been Yeah. This year has been more I've started painting as well as cleaning. So the price point has gone up. >> So you've had more revenue come in.

>> Yeah. Correct. >> All right. And even a few more expenses, but the net is more profit maybe. Okay.

>> So there that that's lesson number one.

Now when you make have a separate checking account for your business, the only money that goes into that checking account is money you earn from your services, the revenue from the business.

The only thing you write out of that account is expenses to run the business.

Nothing else. You don't buy groceries out of that account. You don't go out to eat out of that account. You don't go buy a car out of that account because you can't write that crap off. That's bull. Okay? You only put actual business

expenses.

Rent, payroll, if you're paying somebody else, >> cleaning supplies. >> Cleaning supplies. Apparently, you're in the cleaning business. paint, if you're buying paint, whatever those actual expenses are. Then what's left, income

minus expenses, that is the P&L. It's also happens to be your checkbook register. And what's left in there is called cash basis accounting. And that is your actual profit. When you take some of that profit home out of that account, you should set aside a fourth of it.

>> Yes. >> For taxes.

every single time you pull money out of the business, you should set aside a fourth of it over into a separate savings account for taxes because you're supposed to pay quarterly estimates on your profits. And if you do not, they hit you with a large butt penalty,

>> which you're getting hammered right now the way you're doing this. That's why I'm so leaning on you, okay? Because you're getting killed >> by your by by this tiny lack of sophistication. Okay? So you've got to separate the business and then business expenses and business income. What's left is profit. How much when I bring profit home that is what will help me buy a house and you can't make that number up in order to buy better more quickly buy a house because there's no madeup expenses

that you're not taking. You have to take all your expenses. There's no reason to pay a bunch of taxes and not claim your profit or expenses to to hide from the

government that you're not pro profitable. So, you pay more taxes so you get a mortgage you can't afford.

>> Yeah. I don't Yeah, I've seen so many behaviors. I've been on it this past six months. >> I I realize that um that's what's going to be happening. And so, I guess >> I'm I'm sorry, Sher. I don't want to be mean or anything, but you ain't on it.

>> Okay. >> What you've described to me is chaotic.

You might have been paying some on your taxes, but you're what what I what I

just described to you is the way to do this. >> Is that how you do it, Cheryl? The way he just talked about it, though. Do you have everything separated out?

>> Yes, I do now. I wasn't before. I wasn't before. Person just kind of saying, "Yes, I am now." >> So, how much are you taking out of your business account? How much are you paying yourself per month?

>> Profit? Um, it's around it's around four or 5,000 after all the cost labor and everything. That's great. >> That's what you qualify for a house with. >> Yes. >> There's no way to hide and pretend like

you make more money than you actually make. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not responsibly. Okay.

>> And make sure you're paying your quarterly. Now, we got $4,000 a month.

That's $48,000 a year. We need 16,000 by April 15th.

>> Yeah. >> 48,000 a year. We only got a half a year left. So that's 24,000 and you need

16,000. Have you got any other income your family eats on?

>> Uh, no. No. I am sole provider. It's me

and my son. Well, there's a whole other story about my >> You're the only This income is all you have to eat on.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Cuz you're not going to make but $24,000 if you stay at $4,000 a month between now and April 15th, right?

That's why we're painting.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How much are you making per month off that?

>> I have them together right now. Uh but the price point for a space that I would get cleaned like 12. Do I need to start a separate painting business?

>> No. No. You can It's It can all go in there as long as all the expenses for it come out of there. And And so you're right. The answer to the equation is you need to make more money between now and April or you're not going to have 16,000 and eat.

>> Yeah. with the numbers you're giving >> like when they gave you that bill, you have to pay it like right then or >> Yeah. No, honey, you were already supposed to have paid it. You're already late cuz you're supposed >> No, the 16,000. It's a quarterly estimate that she hadn't paid.

>> She should have been paying $4,000.

>> No, I don't think she was doing quarterly estimates. I think she was doing >> She has to. I know she >> But she's not. I know. >> So, she's already late. The quarterly estimates aren't paid. It's unpaid quarterly estimates. So, you're already late. So, you're already going to get penalized. So, I'd start doing my get with your uh CPA and start doing quarterly estimates now. That's a good start. Well, that's just for 25. Gez,

you got 24 still.

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Thank you. Dalton is with us in South Carolina.

How are you?

>> I'm doing good Dave. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay, so my question is, I'm wondering if I'm crazy for thinking about doing a

career change right after completing baby step two.

>> Okay. So, a little bit of a little bit of background. I'm 25 years old. Um, and

I work at my local Ford dealership here in my town. And, um, I'm at the

highest possible salary that this company will allow me to get. Um, and I don't know whether it's the job or the place, but I'm just

I I am very irritated with this company.

And so, >> well, it's the place. You just said it,

>> right? But, um, my question is, I just paid off uh finished paying off my last $4,700 from >> Baby Step 2 doesn't have anything to do with it. What do you make?

>> I make 87 $87,000 a year before taxes.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 25. >> What do you do? Sell cars?

>> I'm a I'm a No, I'm a um service technician. >> Oh, okay. All right. Well, I mean, is there have you investigated working for someone else? Will they pay more?

>> I I have I've gone to a couple of other places, but the issue with that is all of the other dealerships are 45 minutes plus from my house.

>> Do you own your house? >> Now, I'm about Well, the only piece

that's the only amount of debt that I have is my mortgage. >> So, you own the house. Okay. You have a mortgage. Are you married?

>> I am not. >> Okay. And so what would you make at the other place that you investigated?

>> Um, it depends on which dealership I go to. I've gotten the same amount or two or 3,000 more over where I'm at now.

>> Per month or year?

>> Year. >> Okay. How bad do you want to be away from these people? Sell your house and move >> it.

I guess I'm just I guess I let myself get too comfortable and that's >> I said I said how bad do you want to be away from these people? I just asked you. I mean, do you want to be a bad do you want to be bad enough away from them to drive 45 minutes or sell your house and move closer to the 45minute change and make a tiny bit more money do the same thing you already love doing but for people that you like?

>> And is that the career change you're talking about, Dalton, is moving companies or are you wanting to switch careers completely?

I'm wanting to switch careers completely. >> What do you want to do? This >> What do you want to do? >> I'm looking to go I'm looking to go from automotive to aviation >> mechanic.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, what >> or or or or a pilot depending on which which ways >> I'm leaning more I'm leaning more towards technician.

>> Okay. So, what do you have to have? Is anything required of you to change? Is

there schooling? Is there classes? What do you What do you have to do? I I would have to go back to school to get a air airframe and power plant certification.

>> Okay. So, how much does that cost?

>> Um, when I look at the tuition, I would have to move up to Greenville to do it.

So, that was that was going to be I think between 20 and $25,000 and I had

the ability to cash flow it.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And what does what does an aircraft mechanic make >> down here in Colia? The >> Are you going to move back after you get it?

It depends on where I can get a job at.

Down here in Colombia, it's right around 65 to right where I'm at now to about 90. But if I go to say Charlotte or go to Atlanta, it can get up into 150 160 range. Great. >> So, it's all depending on where I can go. >> Okay. >> No, no, no. Where you choose to go.

>> Right. Where I choose to go. >> Yeah. Okay. No, I would not go spend

$25,000 in two years of my life to make $25,000 a year less.

That's dumber than a rock. Of course, you wouldn't do that.

>> Okay, >> come on, man. I mean, that doesn't make sense. But would I would I go spend that and go move into a different career and change cities and make 150, make 50 $60,000 more than I have now, and sky's the limit, and you you learn a whole new craft, and now you're certified in two different types of uh service, which is not only uh car vehicles and cars, but it's also aircraft. Absolutely. I'd go do that.

>> And that's that's what my that's what my plan is. Yeah, life is a grand adventure. Put your house on the market. Move to Greenville. Let's go, man.

Get your certification, then move your butt to Charlotte or Atlanta or whatever it is you need to do and go make some bucks. >> Mhm. >> And uh but no, I'm not going to retreat.

And that's why I say it's not a baby step two thing in baby step anything. If

you can go make more money tomorrow and you want to do it, go do it. >> Go do it. Yeah. you you don't have to wait to go make more money that you you

know but but usually when somebody asks us questions because I want to make less money and no I'm not going to endorse that not because I'm all about money but because you can usually make more money doing something you're good at and you love than you can doing something you hate with people that are toxic. So generally speaking and this idea that I in order to be happy I have to make less money that's passwords. No, in order to be happy I need to make more money. Hello. That's just crazy y'all. So, um,

it's like, I need to work for a nonprofit because it's holy. No, it's not. >> It's not any more holy than a prophet.

>> That's that's just silliness.

>> A prophet. >> A forprofit. >> Oh, I thought you meant like >> the prophet. I don't know. Whichever prophet, but any kind of prophet. Some kind of prophet. God help me with prophet. But yeah. All right. There we go. That's what I'm doing. Dalton. Yeah.

I would go live your dream, but dude, make your dream a dream, not a nightmare. Lay it out where where it's, you know, up and to the right. >> Makes sense. Yes.

>> Up and to the right, baby. up and to the right. Go be somebody. Do it, man.

I like it. And uh the cool thing is you got this house you can sell. Probably going to get some money out of that and that's what's going to help him catch. >> Well, and you're only 24.

So I'm like, you go do this for a few years. Maybe when you're 30. We just met someone that's going to be a pilot. She's going to she wants to fly for Delta.

We just met her in the lobby. Yep. Young girl, you know, and you get to maybe make a decision in 10 years to go do that, right? So just keep on dreaming.

But yes, don't be uh >> don't make the math go backwards to pay money to make the math go backwards.

>> No, now that gives me a lot of peace.

>> It does, actually. I mean, it's like, yeah, something happens, you can run out there on the wing and fix it, right?

>> That would be that would be ideal. Don't

know if that's reality, but it's good, Dalton. It's good. >> Oh, well, Darren's with us. Hi, Darren in Madison, Wisconsin. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So, me and my husband are in baby step two. So far, we have paid up paid off

about $215,000.

>> Yay. >> Good job.

>> Yeah. In the last 22 months.

>> Way to go.

>> Yeah. And we are going to be able to pay off the remaining of my stu husband's student loans by the end of this year, which is about 92,000 left.

>> Amazing. and me and my husband sat down and we're like, "Okay, what's next?" And we

currently own a home, but we're not living in it because my husband's company um has moved us to a new location and

they pay for all of our housing expenses. So, we have a lot of extra

money to throw around and we're like, >> "By new location, do you mean different city?" >> Uh different states about every six months. >> Okay. And you kept one of the homes back in the other place and by default have become a landlord, not by strategy.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd sell that.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Long-distance landlording is not really a good plan. I mean, if you're sitting in Madison, Wisconsin, and said, "Where's this house located?" >> Just over the border in the Twin Cities.

So, it's not a long drive. And we have family there. >> Yeah. But I mean if you if you were sitting here Madison Wisconsin with the situation you've got and said we're going to buy a rental house.

You probably wouldn't have bought it over there. >> Okay. >> You got it by default. That's what I mean.

You backed into this instead of walked into it. And so it generally ends up being a bad decision. So I'm generally going to sell it. I own a bunch of rental property.

Love rental property. Don't have any long-distance rental property.

[Music]

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Hi, Trey. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Not too much. Hey, um, so I got a question for you. I uh probably back in

let's say January I bought a motorcycle for $15,000 and um in May I got in a

motorcycle wreck and broke my wrist and

ankle and I recovered and doing well.

>> Good. I'm glad you've been through that after. No, no, no problem. I mean it's what you what you get into when you hop on a bike, I guess. >> Yeah. Um, but I'm kind of now realizing

it wasn't a very smart decision and um I'm kind of in the hole with it. So, originally it was 15,754 and I've made six payments or possibly more, but I'm right at 15,000 payoff.

Uh, the bike's worth about 11,000.

>> They tear up the bike.

>> So, the bike all all that happened was the quick shifter and the body panels need to be replaced. So, all that has been done and it's back to normal. So, the bike's in excellent condition >> now. It's back to excellent condition and and it's lost four it's lost a third of its value in 6 months.

>> Correct.

>> So, I'm trying to figure out what the best route is. I'm >> What kind of crap is this?

>> What kind of bike is this?

>> It's a crotch rock. It says the ZX6R 2023. >> That's horrible.

>> Correct, >> man. Are you sure that's what Who said that's what the bike's worth?

Um, just like when you get it from a dealer, that's that's about the price average of what you look online and find it find it at >> from a dealership though. If you did a an individual sale, you could probably get 2,000 more for it

>> because dealerships are going to buy it at cost. So, >> absolutely, >> it could go up a little bit, but >> Okay. So, you're you're two to $4,000 in the hole depending on how we calculate this, right? >> Correct. >> Who do you owe the money to?

Um, it's going to be Road Road Runner Financial Solo Company.

>> The the motorcycle finance company where you bought it, >> correct? >> Yeah. Okay. And how old are you?

>> 23. >> I assume you have no money.

>> No, I mean I do have an emergency fund.

>> How much? >> Um, I'm uh 4,000.

>> Oh, sell a bike.

>> Correct. I just >> What's the question? I guess I I guess I'm just like, is it okay to just drain the entire savings into the day?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. You want to know what's draining?

You know what's draining your savings?

That stupid bike >> paying interest >> sitting in the garage going down in value like a rocket.

>> Absolutely. >> No pun intended.

>> Absolutely. I agree.

>> Yeah. Got to I mean, the sooner we cut bait, the sooner this fish is gone, man.

>> Yeah. write a check, be done with I mean like by Friday, man, >> you have a new goal and then and then go replenish your savings because you don't have a stupid motorcycle payment and a stupid motorcycle going down in value like a rocket, >> right? >> I guess that'll that'll be the plan. >> Yeah.

I mean, you got two things, two reasons motivating you to drain your savings because you you put your savings right back because this thing's doing more damage to you than being down to broke. And then, you know, be work be planning on working like all the OT and all the side hustles and everything else you can the next 3 weeks put your money back really super fast which will keep you from having another mistake which is having some kind of event going to be another 4,000. >> Yeah.

>> And then Trey, what I would do is this.

Um one of the things when something costs me money and I've done a lot of stupid things, a lot of dumber things than this. Okay, this is not super dumb. It's just dumb. But I mean, I've done super dumb. So, anytime I do that and I have to learn a painful lesson, so you got like three painful lessons here at once.

Um, I want I want to write them down. I want to know what they are so I don't have to do them again. If I do something dumb again, it needs to be something a new dumb thing that I've never done before. I don't want to do the same dumb things over. So, I try to figure out from an autopsy standpoint what happened here. Okay? And I'll walk you through it. Here's the way I would do this. If I were in your shoes, I would say, "Okay,

mistake number one. I was impulsive

and bought this thing while I had motorcycle fever. I should

have calmed down, taken a cold shower,

and waited overnight or waited two weeks and not bought this bike at all." And if I was thinking with more wisdom and less passion and less immaturity, I wouldn't have bought the bike. And that's what I would say to myself if I looked up because I've done that very similar thing.

>> Um I bought a truck one time. It was a

similar situation. I just drove up on the lot. I like the truck and I just bought it. And about three months later, I hated that stupid truck and I lost like two grand on it. I mean, it's just it's same thing, right? But it's impulsive as hell. I'm just ridiculous.

All right. So then um second thing is um

uh uh uh I need to understand that things that have motors and wheels go down in value and I can't finance them

because they go down in value and you get stuck in them. Okay. Um and uh there

was a third one but I don't remember what it is now. What in the world is that? Anyway, just figure out what your lessons are from this so you don't do them again. The biggest thing you did was you were just impulsive.

>> And you you you you didn't give any more thought to this than buying a bag of Fritos. I mean, you just said, "Yeah, hot Cheetos. Let's get something right." I mean, you just This thing's a crotch rocket. Here we go. Boom. This is cool.

I'm going be a cool guy if I had this cool bike. And I bought a cool bike.

>> Well, he did get in a wreck and got hurt. So, >> and then you laid it down. Yeah. You laid it down. Yeah. >> Let's find some safer hobbies. I don't know.

>> I'm not a fan. >> That was That was mother Rachel mother.

Find a safer hobby. Every nurse will tell you stay away from them.

>> Yeah, it's uh >> that's that's the motherly comment for you, Trey. >> Yeah, for sure. For sure. But anyway, that that figure out what in the world is going on. And I I think it's always good for us to look back and go, okay, if I'm writing a check for stupid tax because I'm paying some tax for being stupid. What What What do I do so I never have to write that check again?

>> And you can you can really go back and go, man, I learned a valuable lesson when I was 23 years old. And you could be telling your 23-y old this.

>> I'm assuming it was brand new. I mean, I don't know how much they cost, but for the fact that it went down.

>> That's the third thing. >> Don't buy. >> You bought a bike without realizing that it was an absolutely crummy >> bike. >> Mhm. >> In terms of how fast it's going to go down in value. I mean, ridicul I I mean,

there there's a lot of horrible car deals you can do, but when you lose 30% of the value of something in six months,

>> that's in the sucks column, like the super sucks column. I mean, it's over there, right? This is nutto. And so, you go, okay, you you look that kind of thing up before you buy it, >> and you go, okay, I I don't I think that

might change my life. Buy a six-month old bike for 11,000 and let someone else take the >> oney old bike at this rate for 5,000. Oh my gosh. >> Let someone else take the hit.

>> Yeah. And pay cash for it. And then if you lay it down and you're upside down, at least it's in the garage and you know you can deal with it, right? It's a different situation.

So all of those things are there. But hey, learn, in other words, learn your lesson. That's not picking on you, Trey. I'm just kind of setting up that decision-making framework and that wisdom building thing because the old saying is the the reporter went up to the old uh guy on the porch who was known for being wise and he was in his 90s and he said, "Uncle Zed, how did you become so wise?" He said, "I got experience." He said, "Where'd you get experience from not being wise?" And that that's what I you know, I always want to learn every time so that by the time I get older, I do fewer and fewer and fewer dumb things.

And so it accelerates my wealth building.

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Mia is in Georgia. Hi Mia. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes. So, um, my husband and I have been married for 13 years and, um, I got a

hold of your book, um, total money makeover and, um, the part about join,

you know, having a joint account. Um, we have never had a joint account since we've been married. >> And, uh, I finally was able to sit down with my husband and, you know, tell him the reasons for it because even at that time, our marriage was getting, it was pretty difficult, pretty challenging and we just weren't in unity, you know, with our finances. But when I when I sat down with him, he said, "That's fine. We can

have a joint account, but we should still keep our separate accounts." Uh he's afraid that if we put it all into one account, u something, you know, like fraudulent material, um fraudulent or, you know, scammer could happen.

>> Bull crap. >> Then something would happen to >> absolute bull crap.

>> That's ridiculous. He doesn't really believe that.

I hope not. But I know it's a trust issue. >> Yeah, that's what it is.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I I know I haven't been

always responsible with my money, but I don't think I've done anything that's like completely irresponsible that's gotten both of us in trouble. But um you

know, for me, I told him I was like, it would give us at least a vision, you know, for what we want to do. Set some goals perhaps. And you could see I could see the total picture. I honestly didn't even know where money was going because

we never I could never see it. You know, it was never in one place. So, I don't know how I could convince him that we need we need to do this to be in unity

to, you know, >> I think I think you're very articulate and you're voicing this fabulously.

Personally, >> Mia, what would be the concerns he has about you? You said, "I haven't been perfect at it, but nothing like crazy." But what would be the things that he may not trust you with? Is it that you spend more than him? that you're more of a free spirit. Like what are the what are the the things that he would feel like

maybe you're not as quote unquote responsible as he has? I'm not saying that's true, but I am wondering right >> what he would say. >> Well, I mean these are his words. He said to me, "I don't want to intermingle my money with you um because of my

spending." And most of my spending comes from like eating out, you know. Um I

tend to to do that more than he does. He cooks at home, you know. Um, but I don't go on shopping spreees. I don't, you know, I might spend a little bit. >> So, let's let's stop a second then. Then there's an easy fix for that. Okay. So, the way that we teach, and you can tell him this, um, that solves that, is we

together put together a budget every month where every one of the dollars that are coming into this house from both of us >> have a name and are allocated to

something going back out. That would include Mia going out to eat >> and that would include our hitting our goals and that would include achieving some things that we want to do together.

It would include some of the things he is now doing with money that he frankly probably doesn't want to report to you on and he needs to.

>> Um that's he's not bringing that up, but that's there. >> Um he's doing a few little things here or there while he's shaming you that um that he doesn't want everybody to know about. Nothing nothing illegal and nothing crazy, but just little stuff.

Okay? Like he's spending more at the Coke machine than he wants to tell everybody he does, >> as an example or something like that. I don't know. He's buying he's buying some little thing at uh a little part for his gun or something. I don't know whatever it is, right? But um aside from that, now every dollar has a name and we have full transparency, full disclosure. Oh, and honey, nothing's going to happen with any of this money that you didn't preapprove.

>> And by the way, nothing's going to happen with any of this money that I didn't preapprove because it's all going to be written down. And then we're going to do what was written down. And so

unless you approve me being irresponsible with money, there won't be any irresponsibility with money.

>> Right? You see how that works mechanically? >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> The second thing then is to pan back and say, why does this matter ultimately?

Okay. Mhm. >> Because when we surveyed, the actual data tells us that when we surveyed 10,167 millionaires and did detailed research on them, we found that 89% of them,

that's nine out of 10, all of them just

about, said that one of the reasons they were able to become millionaires is because of working together,

very detailed, together with a cooperative spouse.

When we survey the general public, we find that less than 40% of them work together and they have no money. So the data says

that it's a wealth building tool and you increase your probability of wealth building substantially like over double

chance. Well, that's like one of the pros of getting married in a dual income household is you you guys have more in the pot to say we have more money to do things with like invest and give and spend and all of it. And Mia, the other thing is um that we find and and I'm

sure it's said in the book total money makeover, but even for you guys like you said at one point like our marriage wasn't in a great spot. you know, this

this activity, if you will, exercise,

>> yes, exercise is is something that's very unifying because it's very vulnerable. And I will give it to him that for 13 years of doing something and changing it. It may not just be a one-time talk and he's like, "Absolutely." Right? Like this may kind of be an ongoing discussion for a bit.

Um, and there is a level of of deep vulnerability and trust there, right?

You're kind of like exposing this part of yourself that you that you haven't.

And that's how a lot of married couples live. It's like they have this autonomy of themselves. You know, it's separate, but yet we have chosen to be married, which means we have chosen to do life with someone >> and I want to do life with you and in a deeper way because our money exposes our

values and it exposes what we are scared about. It exposes, you know, triggers that happen with something. And then you get to have a conversation with your spouse about that so that you actually get to talk and get to know them. like there's a you know there's a deep unraveling that happens and um and money

is a is a filter at which that occurs and so for you guys to be in the same lane and to work together not only financially do you guys get ahead but also relationally and I would say that to him too Mia and say I just long >> it'll help you heal a marriage >> yeah I long to to do this marriage in a deeper more beautiful unified way and this is a symbol of that right because you're taking the thing that you want to hold the tightest >> and you're opening your hand to your spouse and saying, "Okay, we're we're going to do this together." And >> um >> I don't know.

And there and there will still be conflict, you know? I mean, there's still things that come up and that's fine, but it actually gives you the opportunity to solve it.

>> And so, there is something about understanding that that that grows a marriage, too. So, I would if that's your desire, I would communicate that part of your heart as well.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. And I I'll go along with you, Rachel. the um we've had almost 10 million families now go through Financial Peace University since I started doing it 30 years ago. And the

number of times is is amazing to me that people come up to me over the years and have said, "Hey, your financial class saved our marriage." I mean, it it's And then I actually when I started hearing that enough, I was kind of confused because I'm like, "You went the wrong class. The sex class is down the hall. I mean, what the I mean, that's just weird." And um they're like, "No, no, really. You forced us to work to talk about life because we had to to

do the stupid budget you were making us do." >> And um and when we talked about life, it

did more good than the marriage counselor we were going to because it forced us to align our dreams and our values. It forced us to have conflict.

It forced us to do those things and work through those things just to get to this goal of being debtree. And in the process, lots of little wrinkles were ironed out of our marriage or we were on the rocks and about to bulk off and this saved us. >> And it wasn't that I saved them. I didn't. >> And it really wasn't even that the budget saved them. It was the fact that they sat down together and for the first time aligned their futures.

>> Yes. >> And paid and what price we're going to have to pay to get to that future.

>> Yeah. That's right. >> Yeah. It's interesting.

It is the most hate. One of the subjects that we get the most hate on is this or at least I do like >> I get hate on a lot of things but >> Oh well yeah yeah but it is it is something that is so it is fascinating because and people will message me or comment about this like well we just kept fighting so we just decided to do separate accounts and now we just don't fight anymore and I'm like those are the that's the exact fight in marriage you need to be having. >> Well I mean yeah let's bury all of that because that is a high rate of resurrection.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. We're going to call that zombie feelings when they come back up. I mean, my god, >> they will come.

They will come. >> Yeah. It's just going to blow up someday. You're not going to know what happened.

It's like a geyser. >> I know. >> Push through the hard.

>> We're just going to We're just going to ignore this and pretend like it's not there and like it's never going to come back. You've got to be kidding me.

>> That's a lot of people.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Donovan is in San Jose, California. Hey, Donovan. What's up?

>> Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so my wife and I currently invest about 43% of our income and she wants to

take a trip to Europe next year. So I was wondering if uh that is something that we should look at doing uh reducing our investment rate in order to take that trip.

>> Okay. Are you guys out of debt?

>> We are out of debt. We are debtree.

>> Good. And what's your household income, sir?

>> Uh so this year we should net about 175.

>> And what's your net worth?

>> Uh it's around 89,000.

>> 89,000.

Yes.

>> With a $175,000 income and a 40% investment rate.

>> Yes. So, my wife and I uh we basically

finished our education uh as of last year and we paid our way all through school. >> Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. So, this is like our first year of actually making a real income.

>> So, you're both now making good money for the first time ever. And you get to live your dream of investing and she gets to live her dream of traveling and that's in conflict. Now it makes sense.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And what do you guys do for a living?

>> Um, so I identify as a janitor and my

wife is a uh ABA therapist.

>> Okay. You just finished your education

and I'm sorry, did I misunderstand you?

I identify as a janitor. Is that what you said?

>> Um, so basically I have profit sharing with uh a company uh directly under the

owners. Um, so my official title would be COO, but um, honestly I I have to do

a lot of different things.

>> Well, welcome to being the COO. But I mean, what do you make what do you make a year, Mr. Janitor?

>> Um, so I make about 80,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. That's funny.

Okay, I identify. Oh my lord. All right,

that's cute. Uh, all right. Uh, what's

the trip to Europe cost?

>> Uh, so we actually went to Europe uh for

our honeymoon, which was generously uh gifted to us by the business owners. Um,

but uh when they paid for it, it was around $25,000.

And uh how much we budget towards this

trip would probably look around 18 to 20

from what I've been looking at. >> Yeah. All right. Okay.

>> Do you guys have any money saved? >> Yeah. >> He's got $89,000 net worth in your >> cash net worth, but I don't even know what that means. Is that in retirement?

Like is that cash? What What is that?

>> Yeah. So, um about 16,000 is in a Roth

IRA. Um about 6,000 is in my wife's

401k.

Um, I have 35,000 in a cash brokerage account and then we have about $25,000

in uh high yield savings account.

>> Okay. >> And how old are you guys?

>> Uh, so I'm 31 and my wife is 28.

>> Okay, cool. Well, Donovan, I love this.

This is a great approach to the question. Thank you. And it just took us a minute to find out where you guys really are because there's so many assumptions I could make when I see on my screen my wife wants to go to Europe and I want to save 40%. And I was getting ready to call you Scrooge McDuck or something, but um but I don't think I don't think you are.

I think you're just getting started and you have you're a serious guy who wants to hit some numbers and your wife is serious about enjoying some of this hard work. And so those are fair both of them are fair things to do with money. Both both arguments are. And so I I I don't think I would slap my fist on the table and declare either one of these answers to be stupid.

Okay.

it off a little is it's 40% of your income is going into retirement. So we we do tell people systematically throughout the scope of your life, whether this year or next year, I would go to Europe because systematically throughout the scope of your life, you need to constantly rhyth with a rhythm

be enjoying your money, investing your money, and being generous with your money. If you consistently with a rhythm do all three of those things, all the data that we have and all the experience we have of decades of doing this tells us that you're going to not only become wealthy, but also be very relationally

healthy and have a high likelihood of physical health, too, as by the way, weirdly enough. Um, and so all of those things go together when you're doing all three of those things. So to say, "No, always save money and live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday." No, we don't believe that. We think you live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. It feels like to me you guys have paid a price of

sacrifice to get the education under your belt and to get to this point to get started.

Your reward on the price is saving and investing because that gives you a high.

her reward is the travel and the fun and

both are legitimate.

>> And you can do both, Donovan. That's the that's the great thing because of your income, because where you guys are.

>> Um yeah, you guys would be able to to save cash flow a trip to Europe and be saving. >> Yeah. So >> all together. So >> but you know, I'm probably going to negotiate, you know, as we're discussing this some tradeoffs here. Okay. If we do Europe this year, we really to be responsible only need to spend X. If we were to wait 18 months, we could spend Y. >> Yes. And I have a just a slight, you

know, not painting a broad stroke with this, but the fact that you guys just went to Europe >> anyway. >> Anyway, and she wants to go back. Like, I bet she does. I bet it's it's wonderful. That's great. But also, we can't be in a habit or a pattern of

doing this all the time. >> We we do. to Europe every two years >> because it's just going to continue to, you know, and if you have the money for it, you can, but I just I want to make sure the pattern is set and the contentment and all of that is is being talked about, too. Um, that it's not just this assumption, >> yeah, >> that this is what we're going to do all the time.

the two, a little rhythm, a little on and a little off is a better thing. and say, "Okay, if we do this, then we're not going to do another big trip for three years, and we're going to pile up and get this net worth going and and get some results so that we can do trips forever because I mean, if you keep doing the net worth thing, the trips are infinite later." >> Yeah. >> But but but if you don't if if you don't if you constantly are eating up the money constantly.

not be a pattern like Rachel says, and there needs to be a trade-off and go, okay, we spend X now or Y 18 months from

now, but in either case, we're probably not going to do, you know, once every five years until we hit a million dollar net worth. We're probably not going to do a bunch of big huge trips. That's a big trip. That's an expensive.

>> Well, and I'll say there's a group of girls that went um to Europe that we work with and they just got back and they did not they spent half of that and they were able to do a great fun trip. You know what I mean? So there's different degrees at which you can do a trip too. So >> yeah, >> throwing that out there, too.

>> Wouldn't argue that. Wouldn't argue that. Yeah. Um Yeah. So it it Yes. And

yes. Yeah. Sorry. I wish I could be more precise. Usually I'm devilishly um

precise, but on this one, I'm going to be philosophical a little bit and let you kind of learn the rhythm idea between these three things of generosity and fun and investing. generosity and

fun and investing and then ratios of

those things that allow them all to occur reasonably.

[Music]

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Kathy in Arizona. I've been a health care worker for many years and became close to a patient while she was in the hospital.

That was 23 years ago and we've stayed friends since. She's now 92 years old and a widow. She has a son and a daughter who don't live by currently or don't live nearby. She has been estranged from her daughter, aranged by from her daughter for almost 15 years.

Her son calls periodically to check in on her. She recently revised her will to

remove her daughter and put me second in line if something were to happen to her son first. Should I be worried that her daughter could come after me legally?

She has not told either of her children about the will details. I want to help her, but I feel like I'm getting in the middle of family drama. What are your thoughts? >> You feel like you're getting in the middle of family drama because you are in the middle of family drama.

That's why it feels that way. >> Yes. Wow. >> So, no.

Legally, no. She can't come after you. If there's a will in place, >> you haven't done anything wrong. >> Yeah.

She she can't >> you haven't done anything wrong. >> But I would encourage her to talk to her kids about this. >> Yeah. I I would go further than that.

because >> would you say no to it? >> I would say I don't want this unless you have told both of your children.

>> Which would involve her talking to her daughter that she hadn't talked to in 15 years. So she's not going to do it. But I just because let me just tell you I I

would tell you there's a 100% chance that you're going to be involved in drama.

Did you do anything legally or ethically or morally wrong? No. None of those things. But that doesn't mean you're not going to end up defending yourself or the daughter's going to come in and file suit and say, you know, you mom wasn't competent and this nurse took advantage of her and try to call you out on medical ethics >> or something like that. And none of that is true based on what you've told us, Kathy. And it doesn't I mean also it's been 23 years. So that you know, but um

you know this is um it's a it's a sweet gesture by a lady who doesn't do conflict.

This lady is a sweet. She doesn't want to deal with her daughter, but she doesn't want to leave her daughter anything. So, she wants to take one last poke at her from the grave, you know, and it's just like, nah, I I really don't want to be in that. I'm sorry. Um,

if you know, 100% chance there's going to be drama. The only question is how much?

>> Yeah. >> I mean, just >> Okay, here's a really shallow question.

Does it matter the amount to you?

>> Is there amount that's worth the drama?

>> That's I guess that's an individual choice. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, if there's $20 million, you know, there's Let me tell you, I I would tell you this. Here's here's a interesting answer to that. I'm just making this up because it's a fun question. I appreciate it.

>> Um, the more money there is, the more

drama there's going to be.

>> That's probably true. Sure.

>> Yeah. If she's leaving her $62 and her snow globes, um, your snow village,

>> the daughter, the daughter's going to go, "Good luck with that, Mom." You know, crispy, extra crispy where you're going. If it's 20 million, she's going to be coming. If >> it's 20 million, the daughter is going to be going medical ethics and dreaming up anything else she can dream up. And this this nurse has hypnotized her 23

years ago and stolen my mother away. And you know, I mean, you're going to hear all you're going to hear all that. But the more money, the more drama.

>> Yeah, for sure. I think that's true.

Drama is already here. Drama has announced itself. It's got an engraved invitation to the party. Uh the only question is how much it's going to show out. And I I would say in ratio to the amount of money. >> So, uh I think that's right. But now, how much do I want to get involved? How shallow am I in that regard?

>> That's a good question because I mean, you know, honestly, I don't want a lot of drama in ratio to the money.

>> Mhm. >> So, um and and so if it's $67 and four

snow globes, I don't want to be involved at all. >> Yeah. For sure. No. >> And so, it's not worth it at all. And but you know if the only time you you would think about it is if there was more money. I don't guess that's shallow. I guess it's practical.

>> Well, I just >> I'm going to have to put up with some crap. Is it worth it?

>> Right. Right. That's the question.

>> And again, we don't know it all, but I mean I the story, you know, there could be a story that that she's I mean, who knows? some multi-millionaire sweet kind

woman and this nurse has befriended her, been kind to her, has kids of her own, and this and that's how this 92-year-old wants to leave her legacy. Um, >> I don't think it's a problem. I don't think you've done anything morally or ethically or legally wrong, but that doesn't mean you won't defend have to defend it. >> Yeah, you're going to be in some drama if you have to defend it. So, >> yeah, but I I would encourage her >> to talk to the family about it.

>> In America, you can sue anyone for anything. You can just make it up.

>> Yep. >> If it's not true, you can just say a bunch of stuff and put it in the pleading and file a lawsuit. Happens all the time, boys and girls.

>> Good luck, Kathy. Let us know.

>> Oh, wow. What a mess. Emma's in

Washington. Hi, Emma. What's up?

>> Hi there. Um, we just found out that I'm

pregnant about a week ago with our fourth child. Very exciting.

>> Congratulations.

Um, we currently have a 2003 Honda

Odyssey and my husband has a commuter car. Um, so the Odyssey will obviously fit us. Um, but it's pretty old. Um, and

it started to have some transmission issues a few months ago. Um, and we are

looking at buying a house. We don't own a house yet. We're really saving hard so we can buy a house. My question is, should we try to replace the minivan

with a more reliable minivan, a newer

one, or just go hard at saving for a

house and kind of deal with the minivan breaking after the fact?

>> I mean, it's what, a 22year-old >> Mhm. >> van. >> I would probably replace the van >> if I'm if I'm you. If I have I mean I have three kids and if I was expecting another one, there's a level of stability if you can cash flow it. Um

and I mean I wouldn't go get a brand new one, but you could go find, you know, a 2015 >> for, you know, $14,000 or something. Um

I would probably do that, especially if you guys have ongoing issues. I just wouldn't want car maintenance issues all the time with four little kids.

>> Yeah. if you have the ability.

>> The challenge though, um my because my husband, he's a private school teacher.

Um he makes about $63,000 a year. Um so

14K for a car is way out.

>> Well, haven't y'all been saving for a house? >> Yes. >> So how much do you have in that account?

>> We have $11,000 right now.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> So we're still about 18 months out before we can really even look >> for a house. Yes. And that's if you don't take any of this cash to replace the van. >> If you got if you got it fixed, how how much longer do you think it could hold?

>> Hold on to >> No, it's 23 years old.

>> Yeah, I'm 28, so it's almost as old as me. Um, yeah. I don't know. I think we

probably have a year and a half, two years left. We don't go on super long drives or anything like that. Um, and I homeschool. We stay home most of the time, but it's just iffy.

>> Mhm.

If you bought the house and kept the van, you have to keep a fully funded emergency fund for when the band breaks.

>> Is that 3 months or 6 months? Uh, >> I'm probably going with six.

>> Okay. >> Because you're going to have to, you said the transmission's slipping and that's going to be an expensive repair at some point. It's probably cheaper than buying another van, but it's still going to be an expensive repair. So, you cannot get down to the nub and use up all your cash >> to buy the house and have no money and then the van breaks 3 weeks later.

>> Mhm. >> That's for sure. We're not doing that.

Okay. >> Emma, is the 11,000 the only money y'all have saved or do you have a separate account for for emergencies? >> For an emergency?

>> No, that's our emergency fund.

>> Oh, it is. >> Oh, so you don't have any down payment fund? >> Not yet. No, that's the struggle.

>> Okay. There's no struggle. Finally, >> there's no struggle. We're having a hypothetical. It's not going to occur.

>> You're not buying either one.

>> Okay. >> You don't clean out your emergency fund and upgrade the car. And you don't clean out your emergency fund and buy a house.

>> Okay. >> You don't have $11,000. That changes the story. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. No. Oh, I mean I I I want the I want the family protected by the emergency fund first, then we talk about moving up in car and cash. We talk about payments $63,000 income. You know, it it

it will be a few years for you guys to purchase that. And that's okay. I wouldn't rush >> to do either one. Yeah. Yeah.

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>> I'm good. I would ask how you're doing, but I assume it's better than you deserve. >> Some things are natural. What's up, man?

>> Um, so my question is that my girlfriend and I are doing uh married people stuff, but we aren't married and uh we do want to get married committed to each other.

Um, but we are on baby step two. Now, my

question is, how do I afford things like a ring or, you know, a wedding and things like that if all my money is supposed to be going towards my debt?

>> Well, how much debt have you got?

>> Well, we've got 87,000 currently down.

>> I'm sorry. Let's let's stop the we thing a minute. Um, how much debt do you have?

>> Personally, I am in $61,000 of debt.

>> Okay. And so, she has about 20some.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. 26.

Yeah. Okay. >> 26. Yep. And your 61 is what?

>> Is personal loan >> to who? >> A bank. >> My parents. >> Your parents? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> They're um they're fairly affluent. So

um they offered to help me out and I'm paying them back with some interest.

>> Okay. Help you out with what? What were you doing >> with like paying off my debt and moving on to the next stage in my life and trying to all this? >> So they paid your debt and now you owe them. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you didn't really pay off your debt. You just moved it to your parents. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. And so, what was your debt on?

>> It was It was originally just bunch of

crap, like things that I didn't need, tents around my house, which maybe I needed, but um other things.

>> Okay. Do you own a home?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Uh is your girlfriend's name on the deed? >> No, not yet. >> What is your home worth? It's about 400,000. >> Very cool. How old are you?

>> I am 30. >> Oh, okay. All right. And uh what do you

owe on your home?

>> I owe 230,000.

>> Okay. Well, that's nice. Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> I make 130 a year.

>> Okay. And um

so she makes what?

>> She makes 70 a year.

>> Okay, cool. All right. And she's around the same age. >> Yeah, she's 28. >> So when you're married, you have a $200,000 household income, a $400,000

house, and $87,000 worth of debt. If you got married tomorrow, that would be the together picture.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right.

Um, and you're living together is what you indicated, right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. How long?

>> It's been almost a year now.

>> Okay. All right. What is the uh dream

for the wedding?

>> Well, she's okay with going to the courthouse tonight and um I've got like

over 20 aunts and uncles and like over 30 cousins and I would like as many of them as I can afford to be there. Um but

>> Okay. All right. >> I'm not sure how to afford that.

>> Okay. And what is your personal take-home pay a month?

My personal take-home pay after taxes is uh $8,300.

>> Okay, good. Good. You're doing really well, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um you don't have any do you have any cash or any money that's not in retirement?

>> Um no, just my emergency fund.

>> How much is in your emergency fund?

>> Oh, sorry. This Well, it's $1,000 that you suggested. >> Okay. All right. It was the starter emergency fund. Okay. >> Yes. So, you have $1,000 and that's your entire money you have available.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right.

I'm asking a lot of questions because once I get the whole picture, I can say clearly what I would do knowing what I know now if I woke up in your shoes.

>> Okay. >> Right. >> Um, for sure I'm going to call the

preacher and go get married at the courthouse or in his office tomorrow.

Um, for sure. Or or in a month. Okay.

some somewhere in the next month. Um,

and then have a big party later.

>> Okay. After we clean up some of this debt because you got a great income to clean up some of the debt and you can have a big big reception, you know, even if it's 12 months from now. Okay.

Easily. And have the uncles and aunts and that kind of stuff because, you know, that that's um yeah, that that's what I would do for sure. Then the only question I've got is how much to spend on a ring and do I stop everything for uh a paycheck or two and get a three or $4,000 ring? And I probably would.

>> Okay. >> And I would do that this month and I'd get married, you know, the end of the month or the end of next month or whatever, something like that. Um and because then that allows you to combine all of your efforts >> safely and correctly and you'll be able to clear the debt faster. And as you said, you're already playing house. So, >> and you love her. You're gonna get married to her, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, just go do it. >> There was nothing in any of your sentence structure there was any hesitancy.

And that's what I was going on. >> Yeah. >> No, sir. >> Yeah.

We're not doing this so that we can combine money. We're doing it because you love each other. You know, you're going to get married, so go ahead and do it. >> Yeah.

Just got it out just got some stuff out of order. And so, let's get back. I also like you said, you know, in a different call a while ago, but I saw, you know, there's more buy in when we are married too, right? Is that she doesn't got to worry about me going anywhere.

I don't got to worry about her going anywhere.

Like as soon as I possibly can. So, I'm with you guys on that one.

>> Um,

how's her relationship with your affluent mom and dad?

>> That's great. They love her.

Um,

>> okay. >> Are mom and dad going to be pissed that you guys go to the courthouse and not have a big wedding?

>> Well, I did float the idea to my mom and she was a little like, "Oh, why would you do that?" >> Yeah. >> But I'm not I'm not too concerned. >> But your mom wants to have the party, too. But mom, we are going to have the party. We're just going to >> pay for the a fluent mom pay for the party. >> I was just That's where I was going. Why don't they pay for the wedding? they're all >> the wedding reception and um do it, you

know, even if you did it at Christmas and it was a few months after the actual quote unquote marriage.

>> But I mean, we know several young couples that are like in their 19, 20-year-old types, okay, that go literally to the courthouse, go sit with a preacher and get married, and then the then they walk down the aisle with the white dress and the whole thing four months later. Mhm. >> I've seen that happen a bunch of times because that's how the schedule worked out for the stupid venue, but they are

legally morally married uh and all that

a long time before we all went to the wedding, you know, and a couple of us that are close enough friends actually knew that. But um uh

>> my my concern with that is that, you know, I've asked my parents for so much help and they've helped me out so much. I haven't really asking them to help you. I'm saying, "Hey, if y'all want to throw a party, we'll do it now. If you want me to throw the party, we're going to do it in a year." >> But they didn't really help you, Jimmy.

I mean, in a sense, you they're you're paying interest to your parents. So, like, it's not like they went and paid your debt off.

>> They're not helping you. You're paying them interest. They're making money off you. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> It's kind of weird. I do know people that their parents have paid off their debt so that they don't have to pay interest and it's a better deal for the kid, >> but they Yeah. I don't know.

>> Yeah. So, I >> I I I'm I you know your parents better than me, but I'm kind of thinking when you make this announcement that we're going to get married and we're going to have the party over here. If you all want to have the party earlier, uh and you want to finance it, we'll do it earlier for the uncles and aunts and we'll do that big party in December cuz we're getting married in a month.

>> And I'm going to go, Dad, I'm going to go get a ring. Mom, take her over there.

Y'all announce it to them. Tell them what your plans are and then watch and see if how generous they become towards the 61,000 and towards the party.

>> Yeah. >> I'm not begging for that. I'm just laying it out. And I'm not even going to ask. >> Yeah. Not even. >> I just want to That's why I ask what they thought of her because that's going to affect their participation, >> their their voluntary transport without you even asking. >> Yeah. >> Your mama might reach across the table and tap her on the hand and go, "Honey, we got this." You never know. You never know. So, um,

>> and I hope that for you. Sure.

>> Yeah, that'd be great. Go >> have a great party. >> That'd be great. Have it. It's a cool question, Jimmy. Thanks for It's obvious you've been listening to us the way you use some of the words to back at us. So, thank you for that.

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 5:14 and 15. You are the light of the world.

A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on a stand and it gives light to everyone in the house.

Oh, guys, come on. They give me Charlie Kirk quote.

>> Oh, man. If you believe in something, you need to have the courage to fight for those ideas, not run away from them

or try and silence them. Wow.

Oh, makes me cry. All right. Uh,

Heather's in Illinois. Hey, Heather.

What's up? >> Yes, Dave. I need to know your thoughts on a couple things. I'm a 82year-old

widow and uh I have approximately Well,

first of all, I do own my own home and my car. I have about $236,000.

Um, it earns about 4.4 4%.

Um, I also have about 10,000 in an

emergency fund, but I have no debts

except $16,000 on some windows that I bought. And um,

it's my payment is not due for 16 months

and there's no interest on them. And I

need to know, shall I just wait until the time is up and pay that amount or do

I should I start paying on it now?

Because my other concern is if I should have to go into a nursing home and I don't know what your thoughts are on that as far as how much money I need to

have set aside.

>> Okay. What are you living on per month?

um about 3500.

>> So pretty much your social security is covering you? >> Uh social security and pension. Yes.

>> Okay. What is your pension total? What's the total of those two things? Is that 3500? >> Well, the he total of both of them together is 35.26 a month.

>> Okay. And so you're able to live on that without touching the 232.

>> Yes, I am. >> Or even the interest on the 232.

>> Yes. You're letting it grow.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um the the deal with

the um interest free windows is if you

do not get it paid off exactly on time,

they're going to backcharge you through the entire contract a huge interest rate. And so as a matter of safety

because those things are a bear trap.

Those those system those they in they they put those together with the intent that you don't pay it on time.

>> Aha. >> They're a bear trap. And so I want you to I want you to go ahead and clear it for no other reason except that I don't want the bear trap to get you.

>> Okay? And um that way it doesn't it doesn't give you any you know there's no dispute because it's so far away and you get very clear complete

documentation from them that says paid

in full nothing else due. So they don't

come back later and say you still owed $10 so we're going to charge you interest on the whole thing all the way back through. Cuz that's the kind of thing these shysters do.

>> Okay. So, I want to make sure that doesn't happen and let's get very clear documentation paid in full and go ahead and pay it. You don't have to do it.

>> Where is >> sometime in the next month or two? Okay.

>> Yeah. Where is the 232 sitting, Heather?

Is it just in a high yield high yield savings? >> Um, well, I've got uh about 206,000 in

money market and uh 30,000 in large cap

stocks. >> Yeah. So, you can just put you can just write a check out that money market and pay the bill. So call them and get a or have them send you an email or something that gives you an exact payoff by an exact date. >> Send that in and then hound them until they give you some kind of documentation states paid in full cuz I don't want the bear trap anywhere near you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So that's a minor thing that that's done. Now we've got 216,000

>> and because we just spent 16. All right.

And now what do we do with nursing home?

>> So what is your home worth?

Oh, about 160 probably.

>> Okay. All right. And so, um,

there there's two options, uh, really

with, uh, that you could go with. Um, and I'm going to recommend you go ahead and spend some of your time getting prepared for one or both of them. All

right. Option number one is your best option that I like in terms of quality

is I'm going to start investigating full-time care in your home.

>> Okay? >> It's uh a better uh quality of life for you. You get to stay in the house and um you got

one-on-one care. It's almost like you're it's hard for someone like you, but it's almost emotionally because you're but you're basically hiring a butler.

with with a nursing degree.

>> Sure. >> Okay. And I want them I want them to just move in there and take care of Heather. >> And if you have to have two of them and do two shifts because things get bad because you need someone night and day, that's still going to be cheaper than a nursing home.

>> Okay? >> And it's going to be nicer for you than a nursing home. Now, if you need more care, you need to have investigated some of the nursing homes in the area. Get in the car and go look at them.

Shop. Let's go shopping. >> Because on average, what would it cost? >> And have have them price it out in your area.

There's probably three or four within a 20 or 25 mile radius of you there. And let's go. That one's the this this one's the expensive one, but look at what the stuff they've got. This is the medium, and this is the other medium, and this is the one I don't want to go to.

And you're going to find all three there.

medium, and the one you don't want to go to. and you know, go ahead and get that figured out and then that'll tell you what you've got cuz your $200,000 is

making you only about $8,000 a year.

>> And so if you're going to start if you start burning through that money, we've

got to figure out how long it's going to last.

>> Yes. >> And so the nursing home's going to be Okay, let let's just make up numbers. If you did it, if you did the in-house care and it was 10,000 a month for for people

working in your home and that took care of everything. Well, I mean, we know what that is is 20 months.

>> Sure. Sure. >> Okay. Um, I will tell you the interesting stat. Um, it's a little bit depressing because the way we're talking about it, but the average nursing home stay is only 2.3 years.

>> Okay. >> Um, and I guess that's because by the time you get there, you don't live long.

Not not because they kill people, but um you know what I'm saying? So I mean we're just we're just at the end times, right? So I because I'm looking at that stuff, too. I'm 65 and so I'm talking my wife and I are talking about this stuff, too. What are we going to do >> in this case or that case if something happens to one of us?

>> Uh and is the other one going to just take care of them in the home? Yeah, that's what we're going to do. Um we're just going to hire help in the home instead of going to a nursing home. Uh >> your children will help, too. >> Well, I know I'm not. But you're not moving in. you got you have a life and stuff. So, but I'll just hire, you know, I'll hire I'll hire Sharon and a butler.

I mean, you know, I'll do it. I mean, I'm happy to do that. And so, um,

>> uh, all that. So, anyway, you just kind of got to you develop a plan and you look at what it costs and then you see what your burn rate on the money is, and then that tells you that you got 200,000 plus the value of this house to get through that. And if you outlive all of that in a nursing home, you're going to

end up in a Medicaid nursing home, which

is a welfare nursing home, and it's a different level than the other stuff we're talking about. So you, you know, that that's going to be your last resort, not your first choice. And so,

um, but I'm I'm an advocate for building out a system if it's possible for

medically possible and financially possible to, uh, stay in the home, uh,

if you can write the checks to cause that to happen. >> If you can do it. Yep. >> Yeah. And and some of you that have built large net worths that are listening, that's your best shot.

Really, that's your best option. Mhm.

>> Um, but >> especially if the home's paid for everything, like there's not all these expenses. >> But for people like Sharon and me or Heather or people that have worked our whole lives, the idea of having uh, you know, Downtown Abbey in the house, you know, that have the help in the house, so to speak, is weird for us.

We don't think we're not butler type people. >> So, we've kind of got to get our emotions around that if we're going to do it. Um, but >> I mean, they are medically trained.

>> No, but I'm just saying, you know, we're going to ring a little bell here. I mean, what I mean, it's just a little strange for people like me. Yeah. That puts us hour the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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## 243. When the Numbers Feel Crushing, There’s Still Hope | February 26, 2026


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `MrWS5uBpWco` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrWS5uBpWco) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:43:26 |

---

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined today by the Rachel Cruz, who is also a co-host of mine on another show we do called Smart Money Happy Hour, which you can check out on YouTube, podcast, Spotify, all the good places. Taking your calls at88255225.

Jessica kicks us off in Idaho. What's going on, Jessica?

>> Hi. I'm real nervous about talking with

this, but real thankful it's you two.

Um, I enjoy your other show, Smart Money Happy Hour, so I'm >> Thank you. >> Feeling a little on the anxious side, but >> Well, thank you. Um, all right. I will just jump in here. So, my husband and I are both 50. Um, we have a combined gross income of a two 200K net 161. Um,

we did not pay taxes in 2023. He owns

his own business, an HVAC business. And with the accounting um we paid we found out last October for 2024 which filed

late was 47,000 that we owed. Well now

because we didn't find out so super late

we now did not get to correct anything for 2025 and so we owe an additional 25

for uh 25,000 for 2025. We also have um

combined current consumer debt which again I am not real proud of this by any stretch but it's about 137k.

So, um, >> what is that, Jessica? What what does that consist of? The 137.

>> Oh, the good the good stuff. Um, it consists of credit card credit cards, um, some small, uh, you know, side, you

know, loans, um, to try to, you know, eventually refi, but then didn't necessarily refi. Then also we had a after we purchased our house in 23, we had a really bad um septic issue and had

to replace that end our drain field

which cost us 50 grand. Um all that

>> and so you took a loan out for the whole 50. >> We sure did. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Can I ask a stupid question on behalf of America?

>> Sure. Maybe not. Well, for a couple that's making $13,400 a month in take-home pay, why were you turning to debt at every corner? Where was all that money going?

>> I think what? Well, stupid. It was just all stupid. You're 100% right. We weren't making that at the time. Um, that's just where we're at now. >> This is newer income. So, you guys have made more money over time and have probably spent it all as most people do.

As soon as they get a raise, they go, "Sweet. More money for us to make more bad decisions with.

Ex right. We we jumped on that bad decision train. Absolutely. And again, not proud of that by any stretch.

>> Well, you're that's normal, Jessica. You're not alone in this.

>> And uh I I think there's hope here. You have 137,000 in loans that cross consumer debts. You have another let's call it 75K owed to the IRS.

>> So, it's a little over 200,000 that you guys have, >> right? >> Correct. >> That's the total mess to clean up. And that doesn't include your mortgage. How much of their mortgage is your mortgage?

Yes. Is our mortgage is 4150 a month. Um

>> 4,100. Yeah. 4,000. Uh anyway, that's a

monthly. So our mortgage is not even included in that. And so our mortgage is 575 total. >> Okay. That's what's left on that.

>> Woo. Okay. Well, the good news is you

guys have an incredible income.

>> The bad news is you're going to >> You also don't have any retirement either at 50 years old. Yeah, we we'll make up for that later.

>> You guys are going to be working probably longer than you wanted to. Um but if you can keep making 200 grand, this is a solvable problem. I mean >> on napkin math, you go, "All right, 50 grand a year, we're done in four years."

>> Yeah. If you guys if you guys can find a way, and I just took you you what you bring home a month minus the mortgage,

you know, you should have around 11,000ish left. And if you guys can

throw 6,000 a month at this debt, Jessica, which means you live on nothing. I mean, you guys, your grocery budgets like 200 a week if that like I

mean it is like we are just we are doing

nothing but paying this off. Yeah. And if you can >> that's under three years. >> Yeah. If you can throw if you can if you can be intense for three three and a half years, you guys could get out of this. And that doesn't even include selling stuff, right? Or working extra or whatever that is. I mean, there's there's stuff in here that you can move.

It's just going to be it's going to be a couple of years of of grinding it out.

>> I may or may not be wanting to cry right now because that makes me real excited because we're both on the same page. We both want to tap this.

>> And >> are you guys both working full-time, Jessica? Are y'all both full-time? >> Yes, we Yes, we are. >> And kids? Do you have kids?

>> Um, no. Not Well, we do. Not in the home, but >> Okay. Okay.

So, that's a good I mean, honestly, that's great. And if you guys >> Less mouths to feed. >> Yeah. And it takes a level of of even a step of humility at 50 years old after two great careers to say, "Hey, we're going to go work nights." And you and your husband just handshake and say, "All right, I'll see you at 9:00 p.m.

tonight cuz we're going to leave at 5 our jobs. We're going to go work somewhere for four hours and we're going to come home and that's going to be an extra 1,500, 2,000 bucks a month that's added to this that shortens it." You know what I mean?

It's just going to be hard, Jessica. I mean, but I think you guys are at it. I mean, even as you're explaining, coming on to the call how you're feeling, like the emotions are just right there.

They're right there, which actually is a good thing because you're actually feeling something and that's going to help in the motivation of it all. It really will. >> Yeah. >> What was going to be your next step if you hadn't called?

Well, I mean, obviously looking at um

the debt consolidations um just literally I mean we we we've

already talked because we're like all right we got to get these baby steps started so we've already got you know drawn out our spreadsheets living that life um and then you know yeah calling debt consolidated what can we do to

you know shorten this pain you know that we both are anxious about and we neither of us like get it's very weighty and you

know we've got kids that are getting married and all the things and so it's just you feel real handicapped in in your abilities um to really be progressively moving forward and and you know trying to even bless them with you know helping to pay for all this and and so you just I don't we don't like feeling this pressure either and so we're definitely it's to that point of just being super overwhelmed. M well, I

want to free you of feeling the obligation that you need to pay for everything or else you're a bad mom. I think you guys are incredible. The fact they're even struggling with this tells me how much you care about these kids and your family. And so, here's the truth. You can't cover a wedding right now. You can't bless them with some outrageous gift. But what the best thing you can do is clean up your own financial mess so that they don't have to take care of you later on in life.

>> That's the true burden to worry about.

And maybe later on down the road, you do get to bless him with an amazing gift six years from now.

>> Yes, that would be that would be awesome. >> So, can we say we're doing this in in 3 years that you'll call us back and do a debtree scream?

>> Oh my gosh, I would I would love to.

>> Well, here it is. >> Yes, absolutely. >> You spit shake with your husband. 6,000 a month is going toward this debt. The IRS debt comes first because they will screw up your life. So, let's make sure that we cover that, then attack all of the other debts, sell everything we can.

>> Do you have any to sell, Jessica? Do you have like a >> a four-wheeler, an extra car? I mean, I don't even know. >> We do. We no extra vehicle, but we do have a a camp trailer um that we've

definitely that's one of the things my my husband has said, let's let's try to get rid of it and sell it. We even talked about selling the house to be honest. Um not sure that there I mean there's maybe 120 20 you know

>> equity in there 50 maybe maybe in there equity >> that's like your like last ditch effort that's like we're on the verge of bankruptcy we're going to have to sell the house but I wouldn't do that you guys have an amazing income and we are rooting for Yeah.

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>> Pat is in Philadelphia up next. Pat, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Oh, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can Rachel and I help today?

Well, I'm 68 years old. Um, and I have a

$40,000 student loan debt for my

daughter and the only retirement amount

I have is 37,000 in an IRA. I am still

working and I wanted to know if I should

take that all my retirement savings and

pay off this student loan and just be done with it. That's the only debt I have at own my house. I own my car. Uh

no credit cards.

>> Oh man. Is the loan in your name?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, is it a parent plus loan?

>> Yeah, it's a parent plus. Oh boy, that's brutal. >> Where's your um where's your daughter at in life, Pat? >> No, she never finished. Never finished.

Um she's

uh stay-at-home mom, so she doesn't

really have the finances to to help pay.

I I've asked her several times.

>> Does she understand your situation?

>> Um yeah, she she does.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Again, she she just she doesn't have the money. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> and she has two little ones, so she's, you know, she can't work right now.

>> And what about her? I mean, her husband's working, right?

>> Um, on and off.

>> Oh, boy. Well, here's my fear, Pat. Let me play this out for you. You drain every penny of retirement to pay off your these parent plus loans. Now, you're left with nothing. Now we're down to social security and you working until

you can't work anymore.

>> That's it. That's the only future available to you at that point. Not that this $37,000 is your saving grace for retirement, but that's that's really draining everything down to nothing all to pay off this parent plus loan for your daughter. And so I'm just trying to figure out what the other options are.

What is your current income?

>> Um 78 78 a year. Great. And what are

your expenses?

>> Um, so around 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, you should have, if we were doing a budget, you should have a few thousand dollar left over each month.

>> Oh, I have a few hundred left. I I figured like around 400 left. I do budget. Um, and I do have >> Do you have other debt? >> 400.

>> No, that's all. But it's, you know, till

uh my take-home pay is like 3400

because of me contributing to my IRA. I

I been putting 25% in. I've been really

trying to to build it up because >> trying to make up for lost time.

>> Mhm. man. Well, I'm I'm trying to think

through a plan where you could knock out these loans, get them out of your life, and still try to build a decent nest egg. >> And that's what I've been trying to do.

Um I've been putting 600 a month against

this loan. >> Well, the interest is probably 600 bucks a month at this point. Those parent plus loans are brutal.

>> Oh, they are brutal. It's it Yeah, I was looking at the daily interest is is six almost $7 a day. And that was the other

thing.

It's 7.9%.

Is there a way to negotiate that interest? >> I don't know that they'll negotiate. The only way to get out of that would be to, you know, refinance it, which you'd lose, you know, the federal protections. It'd become a private student loan. Um, and I don't know if you'd get a much better rate. It's something you can look into, but again, I don't think this is going to be the solution. I'm wondering if we paused all retirement investing and just got real intense about this and you pay it off in two years

>> because right now you're trying to do two things at once and you're not making great progress on either, >> right? >> Pat, what will you be getting at? Are you getting social security right now?

>> I am. I'm getting 2,000 a month in

social security. >> Okay. >> Are your benefits hurt by the fact that you're working right now?

um that I don't know because I just started um collecting social security.

>> Okay, you are full retirement age. So I I think you should be getting the full amount even if you're working at this point, but that's something to look into. >> Uh at least you have a great income. I mean, there's some saving grace here. Usually people that are 68 either retired and and are just trying to live off social security or they're they're not making 80 grand a year. They're making 30, 40, 50.

>> Mhm. And so this is at least something you have to your advantage of knocking this out and maybe eventually. I don't know their situation financially, but if they're able to even chip in and help cuz I just don't want them to you to be a burden to them when you're in your 70s because you have nothing saved and now mom's got to move in with them and they have to cover her, you know, financial life. >> That won't Yeah, that won't that won't happen. The uh the husband,

>> he wouldn't even let you move in.

>> No. >> Sounds like a peach. All right.

>> Well, Pat, um, these parent plus loans

really are becoming like a cancer on society. It's destroyed relationships and parents took it out thinking they were doing the right thing for their kids. The kids go, "Hey, it's in your name. You took it out. I was a kid. I was 18. I didn't know what I was doing.

This is on you." But I would at least be very blunt about your financial reality with your daughter and so that she knows what's on the line. And if they can at all help you get rid of this, that at least gives you a chance at a decent retirement.

>> Okay. So, I'm pausing um my

contributions in my IRA.

>> Yeah. Put that 25% back in your paycheck. >> But remember, you're not pausing it for the rest of your life. You're pausing it for a short period of time.

>> 24 months. We're going to pause it all and we're going to start throwing, you know, this kind of loan, you're talking about three grand a month going toward the loan to knock it out in two years, >> a little more than that >> cuz the interest is adding up. You're right. And so the more we throw at the principal, >> the faster this thing's gone.

Cuz right now, you throw 600 at it, but 100 or 200 is interest. Well, only 400 is now knocked out.

Okay, >> but there's no other magic wand I can throw at you. I mean, these loans are not even bankruptible in most cases. Uh, and so really, the only way to get rid of student loans is to pass away, which is the darkest part of it all.

>> Oh my goodness. I'm wishing you the best, Pat. >> So sorry. >> Riley is up next in Memphis, Tennessee.

Riley, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Great. What's going on with you?

Hey. Um, about two years ago, I bought a

$60,000 truck.

>> I currently owe 39 on it, and it's worth

about 20 29 32.

>> Okay. >> Uh, I can I I say I can afford the payment, but once I get done paying the payment, well, after I get paid and, you know, insurance and buying diesel for it, I'm left with about a hundred bucks for two weeks. Yeah, that's right.

>> After your after your truck payment.

>> Yeah, after my truck payment. >> How much do you make? How much do you make a month? How much you bringing home in a month?

>> Um, it fluctuates depending on if they're letting us work overtime, but it could be anywhere from 1,400 bring home

to 2,000 bring home >> in a week. >> So, it in I mean every two weeks.

>> Okay. And how much is your truck payment?

Uh $75864.

>> That's a lot, my friend. That's a a quarter of your take-home pay just going to the truck payment. >> So, you're underwater by 7 to n grand.

So, that's the magic number we need to come up with either in cash through savings, future income, or by going down to your local credit union and seeing if they'll give you the loan for the difference plus some to get you something to get around in. An ideal situation is like a $12,000 loan,

$13,000 loan. So, you have an extra three to 4,000 to go get a crappy truck, >> Facebook Marketplace, and get an inspection and just go, "All right, this thing's not It's not fancy, but it runs." >> And then you save almost $1,000 a month, $750. >> Yeah. Between the diesel, the insurance, and the payment, you're going to feel like you got a giant raise cuz you did.

>> Yeah. Well, I talked to the bank this morning and they told me that uh I have another car that's paid for and it runs fine. It's in the driveway.

>> They told me to get the VIN and put it

up for collateral and they said don't do

that. >> Like a title loan.

>> No. >> Yeah, like a like Oh, they just said for collateral because I've never had a loan. >> That's a title loan. It means they own the car if you miss the payments. I don't like that at all. >> Yeah. No, just see if they will if you can do just Yeah, just a personal loan for N grand at that point. Or if you have a,000 bucks saved Riley, then an $8,000 loan, whatever it is for that difference. Um Yeah. And pay this truck off ASAP.

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We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the Ramsay Show and we can. But if you have a money question, you want an answer, there is hope for you. You can head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. It's our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsay principles.

This is stuff that you're not going to get from your other search engines cuz they just don't know us like that. Yes, >> this thing is has the brain power of all the Ramsay shows. >> All Ramsay.

>> Just like a robot of Ramsay. It's like us, George. a superpower. It's way smarter than us cuz it knows everything.

>> That's so true. >> Can do. >> I actually use it today, Rachel. You know what I asked it? I was like, you know, I know our car parameter that no more than half your income and things with wheels and motors, but I was like, what about net worth as a ratio? And it told me, it said, hey, make sure that the cars in, you know, in your life aren't more than 5% of your total net worth >> of your total net worth. >> I was like, thanks, Ask Ramsay.

>> Gosh, Ramsay, we should >> I was like, I think it's five. I think I've heard Dave say this. and Ask Ramsey knows all. So, it settled the debate for me. >> Uh, and you can get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com.

Go take it for a test drive. I think you'll really enjoy it. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Tyler joins us in Canada. Tyler, welcome to the show.

>> Oh, thank you for having me. It's my first time calling, so I'm excited to hear your feedback. >> Hey, about time. We're glad to have you.

What's your question? >> Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah. So, um, my wife and I are moving to a different

province in Canada. Um, she's just about to be done graduating. Um, seven years worth of school. Um, she's going to be a veterinarian when she's done.

>> Nice. >> And because of the she has a job guaranteed contract, she's already signed it. And I have work lined up back home as well that we both know what we're going to be making. Um, so we went ahead and made a decision.

We put an awful lot on a house in part because of the money we had saved for school. Plus, unfortunately, um, her father passed away recently, but that meant she got, you know, the the life insurance payment made it so that it was more than possible for us to do either a 10 or a 20% down payment on all the housing that we were looking at in in rural New Brunswick in this case.

that's maybe that's fine advice, maybe it's not. But the problem became then um

and you know I they're good people and they had you know their worries and concerns but our her mother and grandmother and my in-laws have sort of been telling us like that it's too much too soon and it's a bad decision. And I was just wondering if there's um if I'm

making a mistake or if if what I'm doing is fine. Are they saying it's a bad decision because of where you guys are financially or because it's just too soon because y'all you just graduated, you're newly weds. Was it more of a life or a money reason?

>> I think it's it's definitely more money reasons. Like we've been married for almost 5 years, so it's not like, you know, you're keeping up too much onto a new relationship or anything. >> And they know your incomes.

>> Yeah. They're going to be making >> a lot of debt from her vet school.

>> Um we have some hangover. The only caveat here is because it's Canada,

there's no interest on the student loans. So, we are paying them, but it's a lot. How much student loan debt is there? It doesn't matter for the uh it's it's around 30,000.

>> Okay. >> What other debts do you guys have?

>> Nothing. It's just those.

>> Do you have any loans? There's no credit cards. >> Okay. And how much money do you guys have saved total including um what she what when her father passed away?

So all between what I've saved and between what we have, we've probably got around 80 >> 80,000. Okay. >> Saved. Yeah.

Is a little over $80,000 that's like liquid right now. Okay. >> It's non-retirement. >> Gotcha.

>> So if you take away the loans, that brings you down to 50. Take away an emergency fund of 6 months. That takes it another 30 down. So you're left with 20 grand essentially.

>> Let's go 3 months. They're young. They don't have kids. >> Okay.

Rachel's being very >> on the edge.

>> 20K. So 20k for emergency fund, 30k for

>> 30k and then >> leaves you with 30 left for a down payment. >> Yeah. 30,000 for a down payment is where we would say you guys are parameter wise versus 80. >> How much is the house that you guys put an offer on?

>> So what we ended up settling for was 3.45. So 10% would be the the 34 and a

half. Yeah. >> I was hoping to >> So maybe this is the the philosophy difference. I was going to leave the student loans and go for 20 um on the

house and then use the excess because it would be, you know, an extra 500 bucks a month that I'm saving on the mortgage and I wanted to use that >> to go in and pay the student loans.

>> How much a month extra would you get?

You said so you'd save 500 a month if you put 20% down, >> right? Because it would avoid PMI, right? sure that that would be going instead of, you know, paying the student loan or the lump sum immediately just because it's because there's no interest on it. My incentive to pay it isn't isn't quite the same.

And I would rather I think I'm net saving more money by reducing the insurance load or the interest on the house rather than, you know, the student loans that I'm less incentivized to pay. >> Yes. Well, yeah. And in that case, if it was just 500 you're putting towards those loans, it'd be like three and a half years till they're paid off.

yeah what you would put down for a house. How much do you guys make a year >> together? What will the new jobs?

>> Yeah, it'll be the so the about the floor the most conservative estimate will be 125. Okay. um her job, she's expected obviously like within 3 years to be making a lot more than the 85 starting and there's a commission component. >> So depending on what drug she does or doesn't sell >> I'm not like planning that into a budget or anything but it's another consideration. >> So 125 for both of you,

>> right? >> What are you making? >> Oh no, no, that's combined. 125 is combined be around 85 and I'd be about like conservative. >> Okay. Yeah. So if you guys lived on 90

Well, I guess that's before taxes.

>> Yeah. My guess is your take-home pay will be somewhere in the $7,000 range.

>> Yeah, that seems about right. >> Okay. Um >> maybe I would say a little bit more than that, but but yeah, that's pretty good.

>> My fear is that I mean if you do it the Ramsay way you're talking about I know you guys have a different mortgage structure. You guys have like adjustable rate mortgages that change every 5 years. Is that right?

And our our interest or the rate is like three and a half% here where it's more I think for you guys as well. >> Okay. Not sure though. >> But the rate could change, you know, every couple years. Yeah. >> So my fear is that you pick up this home and if you do it our way, you know, that mortgage could be $3,000 out of your seven, right?

>> It's possible. >> That feels like a a big load to carry going into this new phase of life. And we know we recommend 25% going towards your housing. And so you'd be closer to

40, edging up to 50 depending on the

situation, insurance, property taxes, all of that. HOA, I don't know how that works in Canada, but that's my fear right now. >> It's rural, so there's no HOA, and the property taxes is a little it's it's about $100 a month. >> Okay.

So there there's a piece of me that says you guys might be able to make this work, but it's going to be more stressful than you think it is.

It just >> it's it's the it's the province where we were from. Um I guess the other the only other thing uh piece of information that might be relevant here um her job requires her like week on week off to be in one of two different places. So the where we were getting is kind of in the middle to reduce her driving between each one. >> Um and it's closer to where I would end up working as well.

Um so the the options to rent that are actually close are like close to non-existent because of how rural it is. >> Okay.

It'd be we're talking about like >> 45 minutes a 20-minute drive versus over an hour. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, for a year here here's the thing, Tyler. The what the reason that

everything is laid out the way it is with the baby steps and all of it, which hasn't changed in 30 plus years is because this is the most peaceful, most efficient way to build wealth long term.

Okay? And so, and I say peaceful, people getting out of debt. It's not really peaceful. It's crazy.

You're like trying to get out. But the point is is that especially with a house, you know, your house is supposed to be a blessing. It's supposed to be a place of peace and rest. And the thing is people quickly move into that purchase thinking, "Okay, if I could just get that house, it's going to be okay.

And and we'll figure out the finances. Well, it's okay. We're right on that edge." But what George was saying earlier is you're just you're right on that edge. And what it could cause is a level of stress that's unnecessary for today.

Yeah.

crazy, knocked out the debt, >> had, you know, looked at and said, "Okay, we can go full force, 20% down." Like, it's just a more peaceful way. And there's no one telling you you have to buy a house right now. You know, there's no one. So, >> and you can, you know, it gives you more options down the line. One of you, let's say you have kids, one of you wants to stay home. Well, you can't. And guess what? There's no daycare out in the woods. And so now we're left in alert.

So we're trying to think about future Tyler as well. Wishing you the best.

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>> Haley's in Seattle up next. Haley, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks. Super excited to be here.

>> What's going on with you today?

I am trying to decide if my family just made the biggest financial mistake of our lives. >> Oh no. What is it?

>> Say more.

>> So we just sold our Ramsy model perfect

house in Boise, Idaho to move to a high cost living in Seattle, Washington.

>> Why'd you move?

We have two young kids and I became

permanently disabled from my job >> and I wanted to be close to family. Oh, thank you. It's I'm I'm dealing with it.

But um I wanted to be close to family to

help with the raising of our children.

>> Yeah, that's a that's a very noble decision and a great why. So, what is

causing you to feel like that was a big mistake? Is it all financial related because it's just more expensive?

>> Yes. So, so well, I mean, it's hard to justify leaving a $1,200 mortgage.

>> Well, it is when you're permanently disabled and you have young kids, you want to be in your family. I mean, >> that's and it depends on how much of your world is new mortgages. It might just like, well, we were paying this much, now we're paying this much. The sticker shock sometimes hurts more than the actual reality ratios.

So, like our rent, we moved into an apartment and our rent is $3,285.

>> Oh, yeah. That can hurt. >> And what's the household income now?

Like every month? >> Uh, about 7,500.

>> So, that's where you're feeling the pinch. >> Is half of the income is now going to

rent instead of building equity at $1,200 a month.

>> Exactly. And it was I mean it was just such an affordable place to live too.

>> Yeah. >> Sure. >> Okay. Well, it's done, right? The decisions made. The house has been sold, correct? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, what can we do moving forward

to help you?

>> So, we, my husband and I feel like we

are never going to be able to re-enter the economy as like homeowners and like take that next step again. We feel like we took this huge step back. And I guess

my husband is in the mindset currently that we made the biggest financial decision that could ruin our future

going forward and it's going to take us years to recoup in rent. >> Wow. Very dramatic.

>> The cloud is hovering over you.

>> Well, what happened to the pros from the house? >> Doom. You sound like me. Like the

world's coming to an end. >> It's I mean it's scary. So, like I I get where he's coming from, but I feel like we have such a solid financial base that I don't think that's not true. >> How much did you get from the house when you sold the house?

>> 230.

>> Where did that go? >> Where's that?

>> Uh, that one is in a high yield savings account right now because we don't know like when we could buy again.

>> Okay. What are the houses going in the area that you guys are in?

>> Oh gosh.

um like for a decent threebedroom house

we're looking at 7 to 800,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So this is a solvable problem. I mean yes it's more expensive than living in Boise. So we need to get that out of our head. >> And you knew that though Haley like right like you >> right >> you guys didn't just like show up in Seattle and be like oh my gosh this is more expensive. Like you knew that. So um living living in it's a different reality. I understand that. But um but it wasn't it wasn't >> it is >> it wasn't like it surprised you.

>> Well, I think it surprised my husband a little bit uh just because he wasn't really for the move. He loved our home and like the situation we were in and we felt like we were really financially stable and he kind of believed that. I wonder if that's part of his draw.

>> Um, and I think part of it is is I just

don't want any level of bitterness or resentment in him to grow >> cuz it doesn't sound like you both were felt really really solid and really excited and really on the same page about this move. something you chose.

You didn't do it out of a place of strength.

>> No. Well, it just seems so It feels like we just went against everything that Dave Ramsey teach. >> Forget Dave Ramsey. This is your life, Haley. I mean, you're you have this this health condition that has caused you to have to move and it wasn't your choice.

And I have Dr. John Deloney in my head going, you need to grieve the life that you had. That one's over and now there's a new chapter. And so we can either look backwards and go, "Oh my gosh, if we just could live in Boise again, or we can go, hey, this is a fun adventure.

We got young kids living in this really cool city. Yes, it's more expensive, but my husband has a great job. Maybe he can make even more money in the long run being in Seattle, especially with all the tech stuff around it. There's a there's a great economy there." >> Yeah.

>> And you guys will be homeowners again one day. You have hundreds of thousands of dollars saved, >> right? And I was going to say, would we put all of that money down on a new home? >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> What else would you do with it? >> I just wasn't sure.

>> I don't know. I just feel like it it I don't know. >> Yeah. >> I guess it just feels like a lot of

>> Was this move, Haley, a quick decision?

When from the moment you guys started talking about it to it actually happening, was it a couple like was it a year? Was it >> Oh gosh, like months.

>> Okay. So I do I do wonder if you guys rushed into it and George I love you but I will correct. He said you needed to move. You didn't have to move.

>> Yes. >> You chose to for the help >> for the Yeah, exactly. for the overall quality of your life because of what happened. How long ago was the accident that caused you to be permanently disabled?

>> It's been a It's kind of hard. I'm blind. So it was a slow progression.

>> Okay. Oh, I'm so sorry. Hill, y'all are

just dealing with a Can I just say that? You're just dealing with a lot. That >> is one of the most >> horic life changing hap. Yes.

>> You You're I mean, you're grieving your your sight, which I can't even imagine.

>> Um >> Oh, I didn't want to give up words.

>> Sure. Yes. And giving up that part of you that was contributing and that you loved your your work. Um you know, your

husband who's you know what I like like there's a there's a lot >> and I'm sure it's a lot on him to figure all this out. >> Yeah. I think the stress is less about it being more expensive in Seattle. And I think it's that your life has completely changed. Completely changed what and what and what George said quoting John of kind of grieving what

was supposed to be what our life what we thought would look like for the next >> 101 15 years of our life. It does it looks so different on so many levels, right? And that's uh >> it does >> that's a really sad reality, you know, that's hard. Not that you guys can't get through it and create something beautiful in this next season, but um to

acknowledge that that that's that's difficult.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it has been hard. But I again, like you guys said, I feel like we're in like a safe space. I mean, we're around family and and there is the financial backing to purchase a home.

We're just kind of hesitant instead of like putting all that money into a new home in this area. Like just with the current economy and climate like we don't know if that's like smart >> or if renting is a better way.

>> What do you mean? Yeah. What do you mean by the current econ when you say that?

What does that mean to you?

>> It just to me it feels like with the interest rates of where they're at and the type of houses they're like they're not like a lot of them are fixer uppers at the 700 to 800,000 range.

you know, we're going to have to we'll get into a home and we'll probably have to replace the roof or the HVAC system is going to be ancient. And so, it's like this fear factor of like if we buy

into another home, like is that really going to be wise? Is are we going to get equity on that? >> Long term. Long term it will. Paying $3,000 in rent forever and ever, amen, is not the wisest move. It would be, you know what I mean? Yeah. more wise to to get in and and you guys need to I would say slow down before you buy and

actually look to see yes, does the HVAC unit need to be replaced? How does the You'll see all of that in the inspection of the home. None of that will be a surprise. You guys will have some factor, but yes, being a homeowner is more expensive. You're you're exactly right. Um but also, I do think there's some man some semantics that are thrown around when it comes to the economy and the housing market and and it is true.

houses are more expensive than they were 5 years ago. Yes, interest rates are around 5% and they're not at the 2 to 3%. Like there are some realities, but just this like um vague idea that oh

gosh, the economy is just not good. We shouldn't buy a home. I would want some more facts around those thoughts. >> Yeah. My fear is you look back 10 years from now and you go, wow, the economy was great back then and we had no idea.

>> And so I'm a I'm a glass half full kind of guy when it comes to that. So the the goal is let's let's grieve what was and let's make a plan for the future. And that might mean we're going to save 25 grand a year or 30 50 grand a year for this next home 3 years from now. And that's it. It slowed down your wealth building, but you have the right setup in place for your life and that's far more important.

>> Well Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars.

What's one thing you want folks to know?

>> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer. And they've been absolutely great. We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsay Show.

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>> Yeah, that's cbacc.com/ramyc store for details.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Lynn is in Maine up next. Lynn, welcome to the show.

>> Are you with us?

So close. All right. Yes, I am. Oh, good. Yes, I am. >> You scared me half to death.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

I'm sorry.

>> Hi. So, um, my husband and I got married

last year. Um, we started the baby steps right after getting married. We paid off our debt aside from our mortgage. And six months into marriage, I found out that my husband owed $80,000 in back

taxes. And also at this time, we found out we were pregnant with our first child. >> Oh my gosh. finding out. Yeah, a lot

going on. We paid the $80,000 out of our

emergency fund and house fund, so we had the money to pay that. But we are unsure where to go from here emotionally and financially because tax season for

2025 is quickly approaching and we are

expecting to owe about $40,000. Oh my

gosh, Lynn, why has the accounting not changed after everything?

>> The accounting um I quarterly payments

employed.

>> No, we No, we hadn't.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you didn't learn

>> You didn't make any payments in 2025, >> but didn't learn from owing 80,000. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm just wondering, did it not occur to your husband? >> We found out in December. Um, so we were

trying to catch up before we paid 2025.

>> Oh, so you found out about the 80 in December.

>> Yeah. >> And at that point, 2025, you found that was for 2024.

>> That was for 2022, 2023, and 2024.

>> Got it. So by the time you found out about all of this, it was too late because 2025 was over at that point. So now we're just sort of cleaning up. This is still part of the mess. Let's call it 120 grand and you've cleaned up 80 of it.

>> Yes, exactly.

>> Well, it's fairly simple. It's a $40,000

debt that you owe the government and so we got to pay that as aggressively as possible. Do you have other debts as well?

>> We don't. We paid off all of our other debt. Good. >> Thankfully, um we do have we have a

business. Um it's a it's a restaurant.

So, we have $40,000 we well total we

have $60,000 in the um bank account for

our restaurant and we have $20,000 in

our personal account and I know you talk

about pausing paying debt when you find

out you are pregnant. Um, so we're just wondering if we should take money from

the business account or if we should get on a payment plan with the IRS or what our best >> um what our best way forward is.

>> Yeah, I think for STOR mode is what we call it. I think IRS debt is not included. Like I think you got to you got >> especially if you have the money. So the question is what was that 60 grand earmarked for in the business account?

Is that needed for upcoming purchases,

investments, anything like that? Or is it just kind of an emergency fund for the business?

>> Yeah, an emergency fund for the business. It takes about $15,000 a week

to operate. While we do um bring in more

than $15,000 a week, we just wanted to kind of >> Yeah. How much do you guys bring home?

a total a month we bring home about

15,000 a month. >> Oh, amazing. Okay. So, you could easily restock the business account if you took 40k. >> I would pay 40k today out of the business >> because truthfully, this is kind of an emergency for your business >> is you didn't withhold enough taxes or at all. And so, I would take that out.

Now, you got 20k in there plus 20k in checking. So, you're not in a lurch if you did need to cover, you know, an emergency. And so I would just work on restocking that and you guys should still be good for your stork mode. I mean you have 20 grand. This is the stork mode is more for like we are broke. We have $1,000 starter emergency fund and we need to make sure that we're covered in case there's you know health bills.

>> Right. Right. Okay.

>> So I have full confidence I would clean it up because truthfully while you're pregnant you don't want to be dealing with the stress of IRS debt. >> Yes. Yeah. Get rid of >> I want this to be exciting and fun and not this looming in the back of your mind that we owe the IRS. have do you have someone that's helping you with your taxes for the business?

>> We do now. Yes. An accountant that um we

had before wasn't great, but we have somebody trustworthy now, which so we

feel like we're in a good path forward.

Obviously, this was very hard emotionally, which I'm still trying to get over. I think that's the biggest thing for me right now. emotionally because you didn't know about it because trust or >> Yes. >> Yeah. And and was it um >> know about it? >> Do you feel like was there any level of secrecy out of out of not malice that sounds bad but of like oh gosh I don't want her to know or was it complete just ignorance of genuinely not knowing that he owed this?

>> I think it it's hard to say for sure. I think part of him maybe knew that he owed something. I don't think that he knew that he owed 80,000. he was filing

um taxes for the business but wasn't filing personal the money that he was taking from the business. >> Y >> and he wasn't fully realizing but also

should have definitely checked. So, um

it it's just been hard to find that out.

>> Yeah, for sure, Lynn. That's very stressful. Yeah, >> absolutely. >> Well, the good news is you guys can cover this with the cash on hand and it's fixed for the future. So, I would uh just get rid of it now. I wouldn't get on a payment plan. Just cut them the check for 40 grand and fix it for the future. I mean, you got your your next quarter is coming up here to pay your quarterly estimated payments. So, let's prepare for that and finally get ahead of it instead of kind of being reactive,

>> right? And use um kind of cash flow for

the next month or try to cash flow for the next month that quarterly because we're kind of still playing catch-up right now. >> Exactly. So you might owe 10 or 15 grand in quarterly in a quarterly payment coming up. And so we got to make sure we have that.

And so the next week we're going to be living on a pretty tight budget now. So I don't know how you guys are living now. If I was making 15 grand a week, I'd be living Levita Loca. And so it might be time to batten down the hatches and and live a little bit more conservatively until we get through this phase.

The taxes are solved. The baby's here. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay, awesome. Thank you so much.

>> Best of luck with that sweet baby.

>> I know. >> Such an exciting time. You don't want it clouded by this mountain of debt.

>> So much. And it's scary like what she said. I mean when And thank God. I mean they they're somewhat responsible. They got 60 grand in an emergency fund in the business. 20 grand for I mean like they're there's elements of it that are a saving grace because some people >> usually if you're making that kind of money you're comfortable with all these payments around you and you're just sort of keeping up. >> Yes. And luckily they they lived fiscally responsibly in other ways.

>> Yes. To be able to have some of that y that savings. >> And a good reminder for anybody who is self-employed, even if you do like side gigs. I mean, you got to pay self-employment tax.

You got to pay your quarterly estimated payments. And it's not that hard. You can sort of calculate using calculators on the IRS website how much you'll owe in taxes. And you go, "All right, I'm going to owe 40 grand this year or I made this much this quarter.

I need to write a check to the IRS and log in, connect your bank, and pay the IRS what they're owed. It's not fun. But we can't pretend like, oo, free money. I don't have to pay taxes cuz I'm self-employed.

You got to pay them and then some, bud. You got the business taxes and your personal taxes. The government wants their cut. And so, make sure you take care of that so it doesn't add stress to your life cuz the IRS can really screw it up.

They're not your traditional lender. So, take care of the stuff.

Hey, what's up? This is Dr. John Deloney from my friends at Mama Bear Legal Forms. I spend a lot of time talking with people about anxiety, relationship challenges, and all kinds of other things that keep people up at night.

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We're headed to Providence, Rhode Island. James joins us there. What's going on, James? >> Hey, how you guys doing? >> Great. What's your question today?

>> Uh, my question is about uh communication. Um, I'm 30 years old and I just got engaged and uh I found you

guys maybe a year ago and I'm on baby step two. I got $10,000 left on a car

loan and I budgeted uh $12,000 and maybe

a little more for a wedding that we uh have coming up in 2028. Um, so >> that's a long ways away.

>> Yeah. Well, we we could have done it next year. Um but we wanted to fund it

ourselves without going into debt.

>> Okay. >> So, um that that's why we chose 2028. Um

right now I make 50 around 15,000 a year, but um transitioning careers to

become a firefighter and I'll be making 80K. So, I'm upping my >> income for our future. But um I I I

wanted to uh try and start a conversation with her, but as I like tried to talk about debt and all of that. I just found myself not knowing how to approach it well. Um I I've become really passionate about living debtree and and trying to become debtree. Um so how do I communicate uh

with her without coming off as controlling or judgmental about her having debt and all that? >> What do you know about her finances?

Um, from from what I know, she has credit card debt. She has card C carda and student loan. Um, the amount is not I

don't have full knowledge on the amounts. I know it's north of 25,000

>> total or more. >> Well, you guys are engaged, so you have the right to start talking about this stuff. It's not like it's been two dates and you're like, "Hey, I really want to lay it all out." And so, now is the time. consider this your like premarital counseling to make sure and you go into it saying, "Hey, as we head towards marriage, I want to make sure that we're aligned cuz I know money is a huge part of marriage and I don't want us to be having money fights.

I want us to hit our financial goals and my values around money is that I believe being debtree is our best path to building wealth and having a marriage with less fights and see how she how that hits her." And it's not a judgment. You're not saying, "I can't believe you're in debt. You better get out before we're married or else." That's not the spirit of this cont.

we and we we have the same value system,

right? And that would be true with how you want to handle in-laws, how you want to parent, um you know, your spiritual life. Like I mean, this is all part of,

you know, uniting two lives together when you get married. And you don't have to be the same person, right? She may still be a spender. You may still be a saver. It's not like you're trying to morph her into who you are, but the value systems on which you make decisions has doesn't have to be consistent, but the more consistent they are, I would say uh probably I don't want to say the easier the marriage is going to be, but definitely um it's a less it's a less mountain to climb.

>> Yep. Less tension in that area for sure.

>> So yeah. So if you >> Go ahead. I I know she like she's the

one and and like I I really want my

future to be with her and I I just want our our future together to be as stressfree as possible, you know?

>> Yeah. What if you guys uh did something together to sort of get on the same page like reading the total money makeover or going through Financial Peace University and going, "Hey, as part of our sort of premarital counseling, I'd love for us to go through this money course or read this book together so that we're kind of speaking the same language." >> Well, her language, she's a teacher, she's an English teacher. So, her language, she has a bunch of books. So,

I mean, that would probably be the good first step through books.

>> I love it. And even an audio book, too, if you guys are on a road trip or something, just it's it it can be casual. It's not like it's an intense we're going to do a book report here. >> Yeah. No, and you're not wrong to ask this stuff, James. I do want to just affirm that when you're engaged to someone, everything's out on the table, like you're about to combine your lives.

You know what I mean? So, so bringing up big conversations and hard conversations

um that that's um that's the you know

the grounds of marriage like that that is what you're going to do. And so you're right, practicing that now is very important. And for you guys to, you know, I mean, by the time you guys walk down the aisle, James, you need to know how much she makes, what's in retirement, what she has set up, you know, as a teacher, what debt she has.

She needs, I mean, you guys are going to know everything because you're going to combine it all and be one after that marriage. So, um, >> you just don't want to come off as, you know, someone like I I'm trying to like

dominate or or anything like I just want

to know what I have to deal with and what we will have to deal with together once we become married. And

>> yeah, nothing about you sounds controlling and dominating at this point in the conversation. So, I I don't know that you could really screw it up unless you're just super way too passionate and overbearing. She's like, "Who is this guy? He came out of nowhere." But if she knows you well enough, this is going to feel like another conversation and just say, "Hey, I've been thinking a lot about this and I was thinking, man, it would be really cool to be heading into marriage debtree.

Can we like just I want to map it out on paper and just see like what's possible cuz you got to pay for the wedding. You're both covering. >> You're still getting out of debt, James. So, it's not like you you know what I mean?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what you can say. I mean, I've I've, you know, messed up with money.

I've been so in debt and it's stressed me out and I've started to actually find freedom and peace by getting out of debt. And it's really important to me that as we build a future together that we see and are aligned on this.

>> Definitely. >> And then you can sort of couch that to go, okay, now I can see how debt freedom is a part of that. M and I think even going into it saying I have these goals.

How cool would it be if we had options when we got married instead of having to clean up a bunch of debt? How awesome would it be to have the wedding paid for and no debt and money in the bank so that we're closer to buying a house or we can go on this amazing vacation or honeymoon. And so now we're dreaming.

This is an exciting conversation versus a wo is me. >> And you get to know a person through the lens of money, right? Of how she grew up. What was >> what was her household growing up with money?

You know, was it stressful? Was money talked about? Was there >> scarity, >> tension? Was it scarcity mindset?

A bunch? You know, you kind of learn of how she is, what her personalities are, what her tendency is >> um around money, the things that she loves to do with it, the things that she's scared of and that she's fearful for in the future.

level when it comes to these conversations, too.

>> Okay. Thank you so much.

>> Sorry, probably overwhelmed you, James. You know what? Hold on the line and Kelly's going to pick up and we'll give you um a copy of my book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Uh cuz it does talk about those money classrooms of how you grew up in your tendencies and Total Money Makeover.

We'll give you two copies. We'll give you two copies of Total Money Makeover, so you each can read one. >> She's an English teacher. She wants her own.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And >> Mark It Up, highlight it. >> Yeah.

And this is We probably overwhelmed him. Sorry, James. >> No, he's he's excited. I get it.

In engagement, you're nervous. You're like, I don't want to screw this up. You know, you're on the precipice >> and so you're like, now's not the time to throw a wrench into things, but it's the right wrench, >> but it is it. Yeah, >> it's the right wrench.

You don't want to throw it money. I know money throw wrenches. >> I know, but money fights and money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce. It's in the top three list always of reasons why people get divorced.

like it's a big conversation to have and an urgent one to have because >> yeah I don't know what woman is like if you came up to her and said hey money fights and money problems are one of the leading cause of divorce. I don't want that to be us. I want to just >> Yeah. You almost feel loved and cared for. >> What a fiscally responsible man I'm about to marry. This is awesome.

>> James is such so responsible.

>> And if she gets if she gets frazzled or upset then you you're the calm one going, "Hey, what's going on there?" >> Well, then that's saying more about her.

what's going on there and then again.

Yes. >> So, there's really no like >> lose lose. Yes.

>> This is going to be so great. I wish I was there to watch it. You know, we should do like a show where we we were like we're in their ear with a little microphone. >> Oh my gosh, that'd be so fun. And we're like, "Say this. Say this. Hold on." Hold her hand. Grab her hand. Okay.

Good. >> All right. If you guys want that show, >> man. >> We'll uh we'll workshop it. We'll pitch it to the network >> cuz people know we can talk. I think we just talked James. >> I would love it. But like you have her, I've got him. And we're like sort of battling, you know? >> Oh, that's good. I think that's great.

>> I'd watch that show. >> I think that sounds fantastic.

>> It's like Impractical Joker. >> That's what I was going to say. There's a show that Yes. where they make them do something, but we would actually be helpful. >> But it's not a prank show. We're just trying to help you. >> No, we're really trying to help. >> Nail the conversation. >> The money fight show. That's what it should be. >> All right, guys. I think we just nailed it. We just pitched it. I think Dave Ramsey just signed off. We're good.

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>> Today's question comes from Brooklyn in Ohio. I am 27 and married to a great guy

who also lives by your principles. We're on baby steps four, five, and six, and our home will be paid off in five years.

We have a six-month old baby. I'm a free spirit, but with my husband's help, I have become a saver. Wow.

>> I didn't know you could change. >> I Our wedding budget a couple of years ago was almost $50,000. And with inflation, our daughter's wedding is going to cost around 70,000. I want to start a wedding savings account for her, but my husband thinks we should pay off the house first. Can we do both at the same time or pay off the house first and then save for the wedding? >> That is a hilarious and fantastic. I mean, from a free spirit to I'm planning the wedding for the six-month-old.

That's pretty impressive >> because she wants a great wedding in

20 plus years or what?

>> Yeah. In the year 2015. >> Yes. So, no, Brooklyn, I would not be saving right now for a wedding. I would be paying off the house.

>> Yep. >> I'm on your husband's team. You don't know. You don't know what it's going to cost. You don't know what your daughter is going to want to is going to want.

You're we're not we don't know that far in the future, right? So, that's a very far off purchase to make. Now, one thing

you could be thinking about though is college. Um, you know, and saving for that. But, um, yep. For the wedding, I

would I would wait a little bit. I would get the house paid off and get some college funding happening on the side.

And then as she gets older and you guys are in a great financial position uh, to be saving and Yep. >> Yep. I just crunched the numbers for you while Rachel was talking. I got so deathly bored. I was like, I'm just going to go to the investment calculator. Well, I want to just show her that this is a solvable problem.

Right? You focus on paying down the house. 5 years from now, they're debtree with a 5 and 1/ halfyear-old daughter.

>> Okay? >> Right? So, that gives them, let's say, 20 years. Let's say at 25 she's getting married, wedding's happening. So, it's 20 years. If you invest a hundred bucks a month, starting from nothing in an investment account, non-retirement, so just like a taxable brokerage account in index funds, uh you will have $86,000

likely. Let me go 10% to be conservative. That's at 11. 10% you'd have 75. >> And that's 100 bucks a month. >> So 75 to 85% uh 75 to 85 grand you'd have when she's 25. So that's 100 bucks a month. That's very doable. Again, when you have no mortgage payment.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And that's what I'm actually doing right now is not just for wedding, but you got to think about a car, a wedding, a down payment as a gift. What are houses going to cost? How can I help my kid get a leg up while they're young adults?

>> I think it's more that. I think it's just the savings for future purchases in

life, right? College. Yes. If you want to help them in some other way, um down

payment you mentioned or Yeah. wedding, all of that. >> And there's no obligation. You're not a bad parent if you can't help with these things.

But if you can, and you definitely can when you have a paid for house following the steps, it just gives you more options and flexibility and more room to be generous. So, I love this question. Brooklyn, you are nailing it. You and your husband are doing the exact thing we would tell you to do.

So, keep it up. Pay off the house first. AJ is in Nashville. Up next, AJ, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Great.

>> I'm doing pretty good. Um, wanted to call in. So, my fiance and I got engaged uh last March and the wedding is in July this year. >> Woohoo. >> U, I already had a house and everything,

so she just moved in with me about a year and a half ago. Uh, so I paid a mortgage and kind of feel house broke, I

reckon. Um, she makes a little more than

twice what I make. Um, and I know she'd help if I asked her to, but with her student loans, credit cards, and just I

guess miscellaneous things like the her wedding dress, stuff like that. Uh, money's tight for her, too. So, my question is, I know Dave's generally pretty uh traditionally against it, um

but would it be easier for us to combine finances early since the wedding's in 5 months or just hold off on it and then, you know, hit the ground running from there?

>> Uh yeah. No, I would not combine finances till you're married. Um I would have her be working on her debt and you

working on your financial situation. And then when you guys get married, combine.

And then if you are out of debt and she still has debt, then your income will be going to help her pay off her debt. And you know, you guys are focused as a household on that. So AJ, how did you afford the house um before she moved in?

Because you said you you had a house and then she ended up moving in. Um but it's it's still stressful for you. Is it too much house?

>> Um I'd argue it is, but it's uh when I

bought the house, it was in 21. Um, I was in a sales role, so I was doing really well. Um, and then some things

happened with the customers I was working with, so I kind of just took a

hit. >> Oh, gotcha. Okay. Okay.

>> Are you still in a sales role?

>> No, I still make commission, but it's more of a support. >> Okay. When you guys combine in July after you get married, because that's soon. I mean, you guys will be, you know, it's a couple months. Um, will the

mortgage then between both of your incomes be about a fourth of your take-home pay?

>> Uh, monthly take home pay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay, perfect. Okay, so you guys can afford the house once you guys get married. Um, but yeah, but um but to

answer your question, no, I would keep everything separate until you get married. >> The scary part is that she doesn't have housing expenses and she makes double what you do and she's still paycheck to paycheck.

>> Yeah. So, she's got her loan debt. She just paid her car off. Um, she I think

the way we grew up is really different.

She's been pretty much on her own since she was like 15. Um, so I think it's

just was a matter of how we look at it.

>> Yeah. Is she paycheck to paycheck, AJ, because she's paying off debt or is she just paying minimum payments on everything?

>> I think it's minimum payments. I think lately she's kind of kicked it into another gear where she wants to try to get everything paid off before we get married or at minimum before we have kids, which was ideally two years is a timeline for that.

>> Okay. I would just dig into this and get aligned on what the goals are going to be. It sounds like she is aggressively paying off the debt. I don't think she's just sitting around comfy going, "Well, we'll just deal with it when we're married." I like the attitude of what how cool would it be to have this debt paid off by the time we're married.

So, I mean, it's going to be tight until then. I don't think it's an if you were like, "Hey, listen. I it's tight for me to cover all of the housing expenses on my own right now." I don't think it's terrible to ask her to pitch in. And if you did it, you know, I'm old school.

I would have just said, "Let's not move in together before we're married." But, you know, you guys have made those choices already. We're not going to evict her at this point. I don't think that probably wouldn't go over well for you. But, I would get on a game plan of here's what's going to happen from, you know, March through July.

Here's how we're going to handle the finances.

>> Yeah. But I think my fear was on asking her initially when she moved in was I didn't want her paying towards like a house if she's not getting anything out of it. I think that was a big thing.

>> Yeah. I mean, unless it's quote unquote rent at that point, right? If you had a roommate, they would be paying rent. Um,

but yes, no, I hear what you're saying because her name is not on the house, but when you guys get married, yeah, combining assets and everything is is a big >> I mean, it will end up being half hers in a sense once you guys are married.

So, >> yeah, >> I mean, you did the front end work. So, either way, I believe all marital assets should be combined, one account, not keeping your separate accounts for fun money. Just do it all out of one joint checking account. Do a budget, keep a high yield savings that's again joint that you both have access to. That is the key to a great marriage. as it relates to money.

>> Okay, >> good luck, my man. >> Great job, AJ. >> I'm going to send you uh Financial Peace University as our premarital uh counseling gift. It's one of the best courses to get on the same page and to light a fire under you guys, to start dreaming about what life is going to be like as a couple as you build wealth.

Thanks for the call.

It's It's wild how relationships and money get so intertwined and they it can get heated quick. and he's trying to avoid the uh I don't know want to ask her because she's working on her thing and do we combine. >> Yeah. And I think the most important conversation is when July happens and we are a married couple.

What does life look like? And painting that picture is really important >> cuz you probably both have very different pictures right now. >> Yeah. If you haven't talked about it, you do.

Yeah. Absolutely.

>> This is what I want to be. >> That's rare. >> Yeah. So, the more aligned you guys can be before the wedding day on again every topic in life. This happens to be we're talking about money here, but um on everything that Yeah. I mean, there's just more clarity, more direction, and a

little bit more enjoyment cuz you're walking the same path together through life versus competing, right, or butting heads in it. So, um yep, AJ, great question and good luck to you guys. It's exciting. It'll be here before you know it.

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We've got you covered for all the resources you need. Elaine is in North Carolina up next. Elaine, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, what's going on?

Um, well, I am recently widowed. Um, my

husband took care of all the finances. I

am 64.

I'm I'm in good shape. Um, in regards to

finance, I just don't know exactly what

I'm doing. Um, so I have about

$3 and a half um million dollars in a

high yield savings right now. I have two

homes probably worth right under another

million. Um, I know I will eventually

hopefully this year be selling one of the houses and um I do have an

appointment next week with a certified

um financial planner, someone that I

trust and um that >> um so my question to you is

um do I just deal with one financial planner or

do you should you split up your money

and do it with different people?

>> Um, I'm I'm comfortable with one. Um,

having someone in your corner that that you trust and you look at I mean I I think having a team of people is wise, like having someone, you know, a tax pro in your corner for taxes and and different things. So, there's different elements of money that I would >> okay >> probably bring some people in just to make sure you have expertise in these areas. Um, but when it comes to specifically investing and looking over

your entire financial picture, um, yeah, if you had one person again that you you trust and that you that you know that

you um at least know the history of even

other people they've worked with, you know what I mean? Like that that they are reputable. Um, yeah, I would be comfortable with just one. And I say that because my husband and I, we just, we have one, >> um, that we use and that we've used for 10 years.

Um, >> so, so they'll be able to look at this 3.5 million and say, "Hey, how much of this do we want to leave liquid? How much of this do we want to >> maybe put in into the market so that it grows?" And, you know, maybe you can live off that and um, and even have some, you know, when you pass away to pass on to your kids, right? And so, um, whatever that that legacy looks like for you guys because what a wonderful position that you're in, Elaine, I'm so >> so thankful for that.

>> Um, but I'm glad the financial piece isn't a stress factor in this.

>> Yes, I'm very thankful

>> to my husband and to God.

>> Yes. >> I have one more question for you.

>> Yeah. So being 64, I don't yet have

social security. My husband would have

been well he passed away. Um he would

have been 65 this year. So I was told

and I'm just wondering because I've heard from different people. Um I was told though that I should not take social security right now or claim his

um because I really don't need it right now. And I never worked really outside

of our home. I did the whole wife and mom and >> you know all of that stuff. So um what I

would get in social security would be minuscule. And I've been told that if I

wait till what later 60s7 that I would

get all of his what he would have had.

>> Yeah. At 67 they'll be full retirement age. So you'll get 100% of the benefit.

And if you take it now, it's reduced.

>> And so because you don't need it, I mean, you're 3 years away. You got three and a half million. I would just wait.

>> And you're you said you're healthy.

>> Yes, I am healthy.

>> So the the longer you live, the better of a deal it becomes to take social security later. And obviously, you know, God only knows how long we get to live.

But in your case, I would be waiting till 67.

>> Okay. And that's actually what um my financial planner said, but like I was talking to some friends and they were like, "Well, you don't know if you're going to live that long and you could, you know, take it now and then if you don't need it, invest that." >> So, but um >> Well, the truth is you're going to be fine either way, Elaine. I mean, social security is a drop in the bucket compared to the legacy that you guys have built on your own without the help of the government.

>> Okay. All right. Well, that >> really helps me. That gives me a lot of confidence. >> Yes. Can I ask the um the 3.5 million,

was that part of that life insurance?

Was that you guys over decades saving?

How did you guys How did you accumulate that much?

>> It was both. Okay. It was both. Um I just got a My husband always had life insurance. Praise God. Um, and then he

was a very hard worker and we did in in

fact we employed the Ramsy program years

ago and before our children married we

took them to Atlanta to see your father

and go >> to you know before they got married and we were like you need to do this you know >> prerequisite. >> So great Elaine. Oh my goodness. What?

>> Well, and I would and I would wait too, Elaine, we do say usually if there's some type of, you know, tragedy or death that it's okay to wait a year, right?

Just to um I don't know how u when he

passed away, but you can have some time.

There's no rush to do anything. Um so if you feel a little stressed or or questioning or not understanding, you have time on your side. So don't feel um any urgency from this financial planner to do something today. You know, you can you can wait a little bit and and that's okay. It's whenever you feel comfortable and any questions you have for this financial planner, ask and fully fully

understand before you put your money into whatever you're putting in. Um, so I would say those two things.

>> Okay. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It helps me a lot.

>> Well, thanks for trusting us with the call and I'm so sorry for your loss.

>> Lucy is in Lewisburg, West Virginia up next. Lucy, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? >> Great. What's your question?

>> So, I just turned 30. I've got a four-month-old uh married um last year as well. And um my grandparents when

they were still alive, they had built a cabin that could comfortably hold at

least 12 to 18 people overnight. So, they made it as a vacation home for us because of what we do. We're farmers. Um we don't get to go on vacation very often. This is kind of close to us. But my grandparents left the entire cabin in my four well myself and my four other siblings names. So there was money to

maintain that cabin and it's drying up.

In other words, you know, we're running out to the bottom of it. And right now our farm is currently bankrolling it. So

we estimate about >> 8 to 10,000 a year is what it costs to maintain the cabin. That's everything.

And maybe a little bit extra if we have um stuff happens, you know, quick fix and stuff like that. But um I know for

So I'm 30. I have another sibling that's 27, one that's 25 and 20, gosh, 24, and

then 18. So my question is is that the

farm is not in a position to bankroll

this for a long time. you know, it's a farm. We'll take care of it for, you know, what it needs. But when does it ultimately become the responsibility of my siblings and I to pay for this? Because we own it. But we have guests and friends that stay in it too at no charge. So >> yeah, you guys are going to have to just create some kind of um document honestly

and rules and boundaries around this property cuz five five people owning a

property is is pretty difficult. And so um from >> it is and the biggest thing is that I know at least so my brother the only boy

um he will probably we've talked about it in our family before he will not financially be able to contribute to this camp um year after year. So we estimated you know between 15 to $2,000

a year each of us give into the camp to kind of um you know help help >> you might need to just buy his portion out and he doesn't own it anymore if he can. But that's the thing though. My parents alive. Like he shouldn't do that. Just pay for his part. You know, he can't do it. So someone needs to help him. >> Shared ownership means shared responsibility. And so it doesn't really matter what your parents feel like you should do. He owns a fourth of this. So a fourth of it is his responsibility.

And if he can't pay it, you guys can be generous for a little while and chip in.

But long term, you're going to have to figure out if he should be a part of this or not. And that's going to be the harder conversation. Wishing you the best as you have those conversations. But I like Rachel's plan. Make a document. Make it very clear so that nobody goes, "But I thought that's not what you want."

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz this hour taking your calls at88255225.

Hannah is in New York City up next.

Hannah, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you guys >> doing? Great. How can we help?

>> Um so basically my question is um my

husband and I own a gym here in New York City. Um, and about a year ago, right before I had our baby, we decided to

move into the basement of the gym, um, to save money on rent and then kind of make it so that I could be a stay-at-home mom and run the business at the same time. Um, and in that year,

because we were um, like able to save so

much money, we paid off $70,000 of our business loans. Um, but we still have about $120,000 in debt. Um, and we're

trying to decide when to move out. Um, because we're not technically supposed to live here and it's not the most comfortable living situation, but we do want to pay off the rest of our debt.

>> Oh boy. So, when you say technically, do you mean it's not legal?

>> Um, it is not zoned for it.

>> Oh boy. Well, that poses a problem.

>> Yeah. I mean, one is the actual legal implications. Another one's just the integrity of the situation on top of the risk that you're putting yourself in, especially with a baby.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, is it even safe to have a baby there? >> It is safe. It is. It meets all the requirements of the windows being above

ground and um plant the ceilings being

high enough, all of that. It's just the zoning. >> Got it. Well, the real question is why can't you guys afford rent and start to knock out this debt?

>> Um, we I mean in New York City, rent is

so expensive. Um, we were paying >> $3,000 a month for an apartment um that

was basically, you know, a closet. Yeah.

>> Um, so >> can y'all afford to live there, Hannah?

I mean, you're you're not paying rent right now, but in order to, you know what I mean, have the four walls, what we call them, food, shelter, utilities, transportation. In order to survive, you have to be able to afford it. Will you guys be able to?

>> Um, I think so. We went from last year when we moved here, we were only bringing in a gross $40,000 a month for

the gym. Um, and we've improved that by $25,000 a month. So now we're bringing in about $65,000 a month.

>> Nice. How much of that do you take home?

>> Um so last year we were taking home

basically nothing. Um but now we're

probably taking about 10 to 15,000 a

month. >> Great. Okay. So let's play this out.

Even if you're spending four grand a month and you make, you know, 15, that's

still reasonable. And of course everything's just going to be more in New York City. But >> it's not like you guys are making five grand a month and you're paying four grand in rent, >> right? Yeah. And we could probably pay the same amount of debt off that we were paying last year.

>> Yeah. I would make that a goal of let's still attack the debt aggressively and have a place that is that we can legally live in and rent even if it slows you down. >> Yeah. Because eventually you're going to have to move. You know what I mean? So, I think I would rather be on the proactive end of you all choosing than versus, I don't know, getting fined or something found out. You know what I mean? And it's like a force situation >> or get sued by the city. I don't know.

>> That sounds like I'm I wouldn't put it past New York City. >> I know, right? I mean, for real. Yeah. I would be I would be making this move soon. Um, and just to set up a home and set up a you know, a place that you guys are going to be for a while. Where did you guys move from?

>> Um, just a couple blocks away.

>> Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay. Cuz when you said we moved here last year, I didn't know what that meant. So, okay. >> Yeah. No, we just moved here last year.

We actually did. The inspectors did come and look at it cuz someone reported us.

Um >> Oh, boy. So, you already found out >> you're fine. >> Yeah, but they didn't. They said that we were okay.

>> Wow. >> New York City is just a wild place.

>> It is a wild place. So, that's why we weren't we're not too worried about it.

Um, but it would be nice to have like more of a real house. Yeah. Right.

>> I would make it a very urgent goal to get out of there and get your own place.

Now, what makes up the 120,000 in debt?

>> Um, what's left now is credit cards is about 40,000 and then I have 80,000 in student loans. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And are those broken up into smaller debts and multiple credit cards?

>> Yeah, it is multiple. So, I would just debt snowball this and you're going to just try to live as frugally as you can, which I know is saying a lot in New York City, paying four grand in rent, but anything that isn't your four walls and insurance, we're going to try to chunk at this debt. And that gives me some urgency to also go, hey, how can this business make even more?

>> How do we really continue to scale this thing? Because then if you can keep that up and you're debtree, you guys are going to be living beautifully in New York City. >> Yeah. Yeah.

That's very exciting to think about. So, I think this is a very doable plan. As long as that 65k a month is sustainable and it's not going to go down to 40 or 30 in the next few months, then, you know, spending four grand a month on rent, >> you know, if you need a slightly nicer place, you don't need to go crazy. But I think four grand a month will get you something a whole lot better than the three, right?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. The goal is to keep it around 25% of your take-home pay, which I understand a very high cost of living area like New York City. It might be a little over the parameter, but the goal is to not have 50% of your take-home pay going to rent, and you guys are on the path to that.

So, thank you so much for the call. >> Stephen is in Lynchburg, Virginia, up next.

>> Hey, how are y'all doing? >> Great. How can Rachel and I help?

>> All right. Well, um, I'm 21. I'm a

senior in college and I'm planning on graduating debtree and my grandfather

passed away in October and I just turned 21 and I found out that I've inherited about $50,000 and I like to know what to

do with it. Y'all were recommended by a friend. So, >> we came highly recommended call a friend and Stephen called us George.

>> Great. So, uh you said you're graduating debtree. Do you have any other debt? Car loan, credit cards, anything like that?

No sir. >> Okay. >> How much do you have saved right now aside from the 50k? >> Um >> not a whole lot to be honest with you.

>> Okay. >> And um are you you say you're graduating in May?

>> Yes ma'am. >> Yes. Uh what are you going to do after graduation? Do you know?

>> That is one thing I'm trying to figure out currently. >> Okay. Okay. Um you know what, Stephen?

You know what I would do? You're probably going to hate my advice, but I would put it in a high yield savings account and I wouldn't touch it and I

would just let it sit there. Okay?

>> And I would force yourself, not force,

that sounds terrible. I would um I would make myself when I graduate college to find a job, start >> um living a lifestyle on the salary that I'm making and create a life for myself

and then when you're somewhere that is

settled and that you know, okay, I'm probably going to be here for a bit, then I would probably use part of that 50 grand and other money that you're going to be saving from your first job as an emergency fund and then possibly a down payment. for a home.

And >> do you know what high yield savings accounts you would recommend?

>> Oh, yeah. I got the one for you, my friend. We're in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, and they have an awesome smart bundle that they created just for people like you. And it's got a high yield savings account with a great rate.

Also has a no fee checking. And I like that the no fee checking is connected to high yield savings. So, if you did have an emergency where you needed this money, >> you could get it. You could get it easily. So Stephen, my caution to you is $50,000 is going to feel like 5 million when you're 21. That can go so fast. So

don't feel like you hit the lotto, okay?

Because if that's your mindset, you're going to end up spending it and thinking it's going to last you years and years and years and it won't. >> This is not a post-graduation vacation and a new car. This is future Steven down payment money. >> Yes, future Steen. >> You will be so thankful you did it. >> You will be so thankful. Great job.

How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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Scott is in Sacramento up next. Scott, how can we help today?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate everything you guys do.

>> Thank you. What's going on today?

>> Um, yeah, I have a question regarding uh

when it would be prudent to take on new

expenses during the baby step journey.

So, a little bit of background for me.

Um, I starting sometime last year, I just

got sick and tired of being sick and tired. uh started really looking at my finances a lot closer and um I'm in some

debt and I decided to do everything I can to get out of it and I started listening to the Ramsey show about two months ago or so and I'm picking up a lot of uh tidbits of knowledge and and I

think I'm really uh enjoying a lot of what you guys are um >> good for you. So >> yeah, I appreciate it. Um my question though is is some of the stuff that I've heard um Dave and and you all talk about is are some certain types of expenses

that would be um probably probably good expenses such as certain types of insurance long-term disability um

>> uh identity theft insurance uh things

like that. My life insurance policy is like one times my salary right now and I'm I'm kind of in the I'm in the baby step uh two phase right now. Mhm.

>> I would like to know when when during the baby step journey would be a good time to start um paying towards these other expenses that I'm not currently paying towards. And and another one would be like um a will. Um I I heard him talk talk about how you know at age

18 you should be getting a will or even financial case university. Um you know

any kind of expenses that I feel like would really help me in my >> financial uh journey.

>> Yep. No, they're great questions. Yeah, so some of these insuranceances, yeah, I would say are probably a a requirement

um that I would do. So, some that you would definitely want are renters or homeowners, obviously, and car insurance. But, yeah, long-term disability um is definitely one I would pay for. I mean, ID theft protection is is a great one. Uh you know, Xander Insurance is who we recommend for that.

And then for life insurance, are you are you married, Scott?

>> Um that's that's a complicated question.

Yes. Uh, but I am actually in the beginning stages of a divorce.

>> Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. Do you all have kids? Do you all have kids?

>> Uh, no. No kidding. Okay. But it it is it is it is amicable. So, um, >> yeah. So, cuz the life insurance, that's what I was going to say to have just term life is if someone's dependent upon your income. >> And so, um, so yeah, in this situation,

I guess depending on if you have to pay

alimony, I don't know what that would look like. Um, but if it all comes out that you guys are not, if there's nothing financial that you're tied to her in any means, because you guys, especially because you don't have kids, you may not need a ton of life insurance. It's really if someone's dependent upon your income.

it. >> And then what other do you have health insurance right now through your employer?

>> Yeah, I have I have health insurance. I have auto insurance. I have homeowners insurance. Um >> so it's really life and long-term disability that you were kind of unsure about. >> Yeah. Identity theft as well. Um

>> think about it this way. If the the baby steps are kind of offense to build wealth and then you've got all these insuranceances in place for defense because those can derail all the wealth you're building. When you think about how many people go into bankruptcy for medical costs or a car wreck and you were underinsured and now they're suing you for hundreds of thousands of dollars, that's the kind of stuff that you need to transfer the risk to the insurance company and it's well worth the cost.

>> Yeah, correct. >> How old are you? >> But is it something Is it I'm 41.

>> Okay.

What was that? Is it something I should be is it something I should be looking into getting right now even though I've I've I really I've just started getting

Gazilla intense um as you guys put it.

So >> yeah, the insuranceances are not a baby step it's a prerequisite to doing the baby steps and so I would get a will in place and if you want help with that we've got a great partner with Mama Bear Legal Forms. Um, you can create that online and they're, you know, created by attorneys, but you can just fill it out all online. So, it's super easy and it's it these are pieces of the puzzle, especially at 41. I don't know what the rest of your life looks like. Will you get remarried?

>> Maybe, right? >> I hope I hope so. And so again, life insurance, you might want to get it now while you're young and healthy because it's only going to get more expensive and you can lock in, you know, a 25 year term so that you know you could get married and have kids and you're covered for until you're, you know, in your 60s.

>> And so there's things that you want to sort of think about future, Scott, and what he would be thankful to have. And I would just get it all priced out and you don't need like millions of in dollars of life insurance. How much do you make a year?

>> Uh, about 120 right now.

>> Okay. So, you'd be looking at like a, you know, $1.2 million policy or maybe even a little more if you want to go 12 times your income. And you might find that it's pretty affordable. And yes, it slows down your debt a tiny bit because it's going to cost you, I don't know, 80 bucks a month or whatever it ends up being.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. And stay on the line, Scott, because Kelly will pick up and we'll give you Financial Peace University and a year of every dollar, our budgeting app. >> Just as a as a thank you as a new listener, >> there's an insurance lesson in Financial Peace University. That's juicy stuff.

Dave really crushes it on the insurance lesson. Rachel made sure he >> need to binge it. It is. >> I Rachel, hey, do you want to do this lesson in Financial Peace University? >> I said, it's too good. I'm going to give it to Dave. I'll let Dave do it. >> He loves it. He loves the deductible.

>> We love a deductible. >> You're asking the right questions. I appreciate the call. excited for you.

Yeah. Sorry about the >> Yeah. Not a fun situation. >> The divorce stuff, but excited about the money piece.

>> Usually it's when those the life changes happen is when you sort of take stock and go, am I do I have am I doing all the right things? >> That's a great point. People when they get when they have babies and they do the same thing. They look up like, "Oh my gosh, what have we been doing?" You know, it kind of Yeah.

>> Yeah.

We have an awesome coverage checkup tool. With just a few clicks, you'll kind of know where the blind spots are when it comes to insurance and we'll connect you with the people that we trust for all of that. >> Yeah. But in high level, Xander Insurance for ID theft protection and term life insurance is great.

Mom and Bear Legal Forms for Will. So, just some resources for you guys out there that are wanting to uh wanting to get your insuranceances in place as well. >> Want to get a little nerdy and sleep better at night. That's it.

How can we help, Julia?

>> Hi guys. Um, so I just recently got my

work bonus. Um, it was about $14,000

after taxes. Um, >> yeah. And I have about $32,000 in debt.

And I'm trying to figure out what is the best way to pay down some of it with my bonus. I have about 15,000 in savings

for a long-term emergency fund and a,000

for a short term. So, I don't really feel like I need to use it to amp up my savings. I want to try to tackle the debt. However, half of it is no interest

and some of it is very low interest. So, following the debt snowball, I could pay down the lower balances, but there's 0% interest. So, I'm trying to figure out, does it make more sense to knock out the ones that have a little bit higher interest and pay it down that way?

>> Well, the truth is you could be close to debtree as soon as this bonus hits because you'll have $30,000 in cash spread out, right? between the bonus and all this emergency fund.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it really won't matter much if you do it the Ramsay way, which is leave the thousand dollar emergency fund, but take the bonus plus the full emergency fund.

That's that's going to be 29,000 out of the 32 and you can knock out almost all of it. And at that point, just knock out the lowest balances and free up those payments faster. And then you'll have three grand left. And so, the interest is really not going to matter.

>> Okay. My only worry, and I feel like this is probably a worry a lot of people have when they have an emergency fund, is like it took me a while to get there.

>> Yeah. But you also have it, >> but you also have 0% interest.

>> Yeah. But you also have a ton of payments right now. So if you if you were debtree today, how much money is going out the door in payments?

>> Um, so payments are 900 a month I pay.

>> Okay. So, let's say you were gazelle intense and that's baby step three is to bump up your emergency fund to three to six months of expenses. So, what if you threw an extra $1,000 a month at that emergency fund plus what you were paying uh your payments, you could in 10 months you could be back up to where you are and completely debtree.

>> Okay? >> You just got to be intense about it. Do you know what I mean? >> It takes a mental shift to go, "Oh, I'm actually not safe having this money over here because I owe 32." the risk is still there. >> Yeah. So, getting rid of the risk, you will stock up that money really fast.

And I highly doubt you're going to have a $20,000 emergency while you're trying to build this up. So, we're rooting for you. Follow the plan. It works.

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com/ insurance. Ramseyolutions.com/insurance.

Sarah is in New York up next. Sarah, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Yes. Hi. How are you? >> Good. How can Rachel and I help today?

Um I'm just a little confused. I one I

have some money like that I don't need right now and I was thinking I'm investing it. I just don't know like who to trust and what to do. I'm not very savvy. Um that's one of I had. Um

another one I had is that um I want to like buy a car. Do you suggest buying or leasing?

>> Okay. So I think you broke up on us a little bit, but you have cash you want to invest. You don't feel super confident, not super savvy on that, and you want to know about buying a car and what the best way to do that is.

>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. How much money do you have right now? >> So, right now I have about um I have close to 100,000. >> Wow. >> Nice. Where is it right now?

>> No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um Yeah.

Right. So, I have about like close to 80 just like sitting in one account like that was on the CD, but I'm like I want to just stop with CD. I want to do more.

Mhm. >> And then I have about the rest I have in just like my checking account which a little bit of every month, but I make sure every month to leave over some for savings even though I don't have too much. Um >> for sure. So you kind of have an emergency fund um that's there.

>> I know. Yeah. I It's not an official

emergency fund. I I never set up one. I just set up a 41 a 401k plan where my um

company overs 3% match and I did that.

>> Nice. >> Like I just started it. >> Do you have any debt?

>> I have zero debt. No, I'm still young.

I'm learning all this. >> You're crushing it. And you you said you're looking to buy a car. Do you have one right now?

>> No, I don't. >> Okay. And you need one for transportation to work or what?

>> No. So, that's the thing. I work in I I take a bus to work. It's not I work in the city. It's not worth like Manhattan.

It's not worth driving. Yeah. >> But like personally, I think it would be nice to have a car. I don't know if I could for sure afford one. I know I could, but I just don't know if it's worth it. Let's let's focus on the definition of afford because most people go, "Well, if I can afford the payment, I can afford this car." And the problem is these >> dealers with insurance.

>> What's that?

>> No, I know I could afford one now. I don't know if I can upkeep long with insurance. >> Yeah, that's that's something to think about. And so, the key is we're going to pay cash for this car and we know the long-term maintenance and insurance costs on top of that. And having the city is like 10x the cost of having it anywhere else. >> Yeah. And a lot of people sell their car when they go to Manhattan. So, do you feel like you really do need one, Sarah?

>> For my freedom? Yeah. At night and like just to get out places that it would be nice to have one. >> Okay. >> I haven't got one till now cuz I wasn't sure. I don't know. I just open the 401k and I now pay for my own like I paid for insurance. I was on um Medicaid and now I was 12. So, I'm not you know taxes just eats up so much. >> Yeah. How old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Okay. Awesome. How much do you make?

>> I make about 49 years. 49,000.

>> Yeah. >> And how much are you currently investing into that 401k through your employer?

>> I'm investing 6% because I get like three. So I'm investing six.

>> Okay. So you're investing six. They're adding three on top of that. So a total of 9%. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So that's $4,410

is what's happening per year out of your $49,000 income.

>> Okay. So the difference between investing and that CD is a CD has a fixed rate and it will mature and you will make that you know three and a half or 4%. Right.

>> Yes. >> But with investing you're putting this money into the stock market and if you do it right you're going to have a tiny piece of a whole bunch of companies that are doing really well that we're all rooting for.

And what we've seen >> how do I know who to trust and where to go? I'm ready to invest close to 80.

Like I don't need it now. I can invest like the next five years.

>> Sure. So you well you have this 80 and that might be for a different purpose.

And so right now we're investing I would recommend investing 15% of your income regardless of the employer match. So you put in 15 they put in three on top of that. That would double your investment rate right now. How cool would that be?

>> They're invest they're giving me 3% though only for for a 401k plan. That that means I can't pull it out. Correct.

>> Correct. You would have to wait until you're of retirement age. So, if you want money outside of that that you want to invest, you could use a portion of that cash to do so.

>> Yeah. So, >> I'm confused. >> Yes. So, what I would do, Sarah, is I would um I would get an emergency fund.

So, I would I would open up I just go to Fairwinds, that's a credit union, one that we recommend, and open up a high

yield savings account, okay? And put some money in probably three months of of what your expenses would be for three months. and that we can consider that your fully funded emergency fund. So if we were to do that, how much does it take you to live a month? What are your expenses per month?

>> So it takes me probably a little over a thousand. >> Just a thousand bucks. >> How is that? >> Is that rent? >> I live with nothing. I know I live I don't I don't I live with my parents.

>> Oh, okay. So Okay. So for now, we'll say

your starter emergency fund is, you know, 5,000 bucks for right now. Okay.

So, I would just keep that on the side and that's there just in case something happens. Now, when you move out of your parents and you start paying rent, you're going to bump that up, okay? As your lifestyle goes up. Um, then I would

look at my retirement. Like what George was saying, we want to fund 15% of your income into into retirement. So, that means 6% already is going into um this

401k. That means you have 9% left of

what you can invest with your income. And so what I would do is open up a Roth IRA and you can put up to $7,500.

Is that right? Is that 7500 this year?

>> Yes. 7500 per year >> per year is the limit. And so I would do

and figure out, okay, how much of that

9% of my income needs to go into that Roth IRA. So those are that's retirement. Okay. So when you do that, oh my gosh, I bet you could run numbers.

Yeah, George, run did you run some numbers? I what I was calculating here, Sarah, and you can do this at home and we'll put it up on the screen here for anyone watching. I'm using our investment calculator and I'm going, okay, Sarah's 23. She makes 49,000 a

year. And if she invests 15% plus you have a 3% match, that's 8,820 bucks a

year. Are you tracking?

>> Yes. >> So monthly, that's 735 bucks a month is going into that 401k into what we call mutual funds. and that has a collection of hundreds of companies and you own a little piece of those and what we've seen is about a 10% to 12% rate of return over the last several decades versus that 3 or 4% you're getting in the CD. You tracking?

>> Yes, but I did I never put that into the CD. Meaning to say is I only I put the 80,000 into the CD.

>> Got it. >> That's why I got the 80. I put less than 80. >> But as far as a return, like you said, you're like, I want to do more with it. And that's what investing will do for you. It's going to have compound growth.

So if you have a,000 bucks, >> I don't know who to trust. >> So number one, you have funds within your 401k and there's going to be some great funds in there as well as investing outside of retirement, which is where you can reach out to a financial adviser and you can jump on to ramseolutions.com and click on smart vester and you can reach out to someone called a smart vest pro. These are financial advisors that will teach you and help you understand what you're investing into before you make any decisions. So, it's not, hey, here's my money, take it, invest it.

You want someone who's going to help you understand this. And what they'll do is invest you with a very similar >> one to three people. I'm like, I'm not sure who to turn. I'm like, I don't know.

>> You're you're right to be skeptical because there's a lot of bad actors out there who are really just insurance salesmen in cheap's clothing, wolf's clothing, and they're going, "Hey, I got you. How about this whole life policy?" And they make it real complicated.

And so what you'll end up having is a retirement account, your 401k, maybe this IRA, which again is not connected to your employer, but another great place to invest with compound growth.

And then outside of that, you've got the just it's called a taxable brokerage account. And this is a non-retirement account where you might be able to you'll be able to access that money before you're of retirement age. And so think about it like buckets. You want to have a few different buckets for flexibility and options.

>> But can I give you the numbers here before we run out of time?

Yes. >> If you keep this up, you remain debtree and you never get a raise, which we all agree Sarah will get a raise. She's going to make more than $49,000 in her career, right?

>> Yeah. >> But even if you didn't >> from 23 to 63, if you invest $735 and we

assume a 10% rate of return over those 40 years, if we smoothed it all out, you would have $4.6 million sitting in that 401k >> at 63. >> Here's the crazy part. You didn't contribute 4.6 million. You contributed $352,000 of that $4.6 million. 4.3 million Sarah

was just compound growth doing the heavy lifting over a long period of time. So you want to start now. >> Yep. So go and find a Smart investor pro in your area. Interview two or three of them. Get a feel for them. See if you like them. But these are people that we have vetted and that we trust.

>> And if you guys want to check out that investment calculator, I will drop a link in the show notes or description of this episode. So, go click there, play with the numbers for yourself, and see just how many millions you could have to build wealth and leave a legacy.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027. Join the Ramsay personalities

and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosm, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the

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Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 28:19.

Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty.

Justin Timberlake once said, "If you put out 150%, then you can always expect 100% back." That's what I was always

told as a kid, and it's worked for me so far. Interesting math.

>> So, you got to put 150 in to get 100 back out. Put that in your investment calculator. >> Not a great investment if I pop it into >> I don't know if I would do that investment, Justin. I don't know.

>> Okay. But I guess you really got to overdo it to succeed. You got to go overindex on how much you try.

>> Yeah, I guess so. But >> Oh, yeah. So, if I put 50% in, I get zero out apparently based on this math.

>> That's right. Yep. You got to go above and beyond. >> Got to go all in, baby. >> Above and beyond. >> Thanks, JT. All right. Rachel joins us in Utah up next. Rachel, meet Rachel.

>> Hi. >> Hey. >> Hi, Rachel. >> Um, hi. Hi, Rachel. Um, I just have a

quick question. So, my husband and I just read the Total Money Makeover last week. We like binged it and we're so excited. We're all fired up about getting started, but we just want to make sure that we make the right first steps because we just got a tax return about $8,000 and we have about $4,500 of

credit card debt, but we also want to sell our cars to downsize so we don't have car payments. and we don't think we're going to be able to sell my husband's truck for more than what we owe on it. So, we're wondering if we should use the cash that we have from our tax return to help pay off what we owe on the truck after we sell it or if we should use the cash to pay off the credit cards and then sell the truck later on. >> Oh, great question.

Okay.

>> About 14,000. >> 14,000. And what's it worth now if you were to sell it to an individual?

Um, I don't know, but it my husband's thinking it's going to be less because it's it doesn't have like it's been in a wreck and so it's it doesn't have like a clean title. So, I don't think that we're going to be able to sell it for >> But you don't you don't know 100% though, right? So, I would look at Kelly Blue Book and put in all that information because you'll have Yeah.

history with the vehicle. You'll you'll put input all that data and I would be curious what Kelly Blue Book says. You might be right. Yeah. You might be some underwater or you'd never know depending on when he bought it. You know, sometimes you could sell it for 15 grand. You're actually a thousand ahead.

I mean, we're not sure yet. >> What's your household income?

>> Um about 80,000.

>> Okay. Cuz the other option is just keeping the truck and just paying it off aggressively, >> right? Yeah. It's hard because we Yeah.

We're just not sure if we should like do the credit card debt first or the or the truck loan because I feel like with this cash, we could for sure pay it off, you

know, after after we sell it, we could make up for what we owe still. But if we

don't do that and we use the cash to pay off credit cards, I feel like we will have that drug payment for a lot longer in order to save up to >> Well, if you knock out all the credit cards, that still leaves you with what, 3,500 bucks to throw at the car loan.

>> Yeah, that's true. Then you're down to 10,000. >> And how much is going um to to credit card payments every month? How much are you guys paying? >> Um we've actually we have been able to pay off our credit cards without like the total statement balance without paying any interest up until this point.

Um but we that's the the 8,000 is

basically all the cash that we have. So >> yes, I was just thinking yeah if you paid off the credit card debt that does free up some more money per month.

that's not going to pay minimum payments on credit cards. You know, it's that's cash back to you guys.

>> But you're saying you've never had credit card payments.

>> You've just paid it in full each month until now. >> The statement. Yeah. We've we've never Yeah. >> But now there's a balance that you're carrying.

>> Now there's a balance. It's not due till like the middle of next month. Um so we have we'd have, you know, a couple more paychecks before then, but it would probably we might not be able to make it. I'm not sure.

>> Okay. I wouldn't just knock out the credit card debt. Just debt snowball everything. So, you'll knock out all the credit cards.

You'll knock out a chunk of the car loan. You'll have 10K left on that. You're making 80K.

And my guess is it if you can throw I mean two grand a month, you're done in five months, >> right? Okay. Yeah. >> So, three grand a month, you're done in a little over three months. >> We'll use that cash to do the credit card. >> Yeah. Is that all your debt you got? Is just the credit cards in the truck?

and my car. But we'll be able to sell my car for more than what we owe on it.

>> Okay. >> And still have enough to get something different because you're you're going to need something to get around, right?

>> We actually we actually have a car another car that >> Oh my goodness. >> Oh, well, perfect. Perfect. That's great. >> It's like a Russian doll. Underneath that is another car. Okay.

>> Right. >> That's good news. So you can sell it and be just fine and be completely debt free and then just keep that intensity up and build the emergency fund and then you'll never have to go into debt again. You've got sort of a debt insurance plan at that point.

>> Yeah, we Yeah, we were kind of shocked when we read the book because we're like, "Oh my gosh, we could be debtree in like a few months." >> Yes. That's awesome. Well done, you guys. >> That's a That's the hardest part is just realizing we don't want to live like this anymore and we don't need to.

Most people would just assume, well, you gota have a car payment. What are you gonna do? You can't save up and pay cash for a car. That's crazy.

So, you guys are doing it the right way. We're happy that the Total Money Makeover helped you guys out. It's a great book for anybody out there who's like, "What is this Ramsey stuff? I just want to get on the planet and get fired up." It is the book.

You can go check it out.

Doug is in Sacramento. Doug, what's going on?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. How are you?

>> Good. Hey, so just my question is is

real brief. Um, I feel like my wife and I are doing well. We both have good jobs, but I feel like we're not doing

more with our money because we don't know what to do.

>> Um, we have um an emergency fund that's

15k.

We have um like 165 in a high yield

savings. >> What's that for? >> Um, but it's that that's what that's the

thing is like my wife is this she wants to save all her money. She's like worried about not having any and she wants to save save. But I feel like we should be doing something with that.

>> Okay. Are you guys renting or do you own a home?

>> We own a home. >> What's left on the mortgage?

>> 340.

>> Okay. So, that's one thing we could do with the money >> and it's it's at 3.4%.

>> Okay. And you guys have no debt?

>> I have >> outside of the mortgage. >> Um I have a truck payment. We owe like

it's 460 a month and we owe 20 on it.

>> That's another thing you could do with that money. >> I'm finding all kinds of things that >> we can do a lot of stuff, Doug.

>> We we have a uh we have a couple grand

on credit cards, but we always pay them off. We never pay interest on it.

>> Okay. You're not carrying a balance, you're saying?

>> No, never.

>> Okay. Well, I would, if I'm in your shoes, you're saying, "What do we do next?" I would get rid of any and all debt in my life and then start to tackle the house and also be investing 15%

after that. So, are you guys investing a certain percentage right now of your household income?

>> Um, I don't think a percentage. So, we

both have like Robin Hood accounts that like a friend from work turned me on to and I think I have like 10 grand in on mine and she has like five or six grand on hers. >> Do you guys not have like a retirement plan through your employers?

Um, she has a 401k that's got 360 in it

and I have a deferred comp that's got 78 in it. >> Okay. I would focus on those tax advantaged accounts long before I ever opened up the Robin Hood app.

>> I hate that thing with a burning passion. It's basically the lottery for Bros. >> I know. I know. I know nothing about like investing. So, like that's the only thing that I knew how to do. Like a friend showed me how to do it. I would say investing is in your retirement plan is easier than navigating Robin Hood because they always got something new they're trying to throw at you and get into. So, I would put away 15% of your household income, which is how much? What's the total between the two of you?

Gross household income.

>> Uh 270.

>> That's a fantastic income. I think you guys should be doing a whole lot better.

That means you should be investing $40,000 $40,000 across retirement plans.

And I would start with anything that has a match on it. then move to any Roth type accounts or Roth 401k or you know whatever you have available and then move back to traditional accounts and if you still haven't hit that 15% mark and you maxed everything out then you can go to things outside of retirement you know like a taxable brokerage account but I would stick to mutual funds I would never play with individual stocks I wouldn't touch crypto uh you guys can build some serious wealth if you just start to attack these things in order with some focus >> yeah so getting out of that consumer debt getting a 401k in place and a Roth IRA and you guys funding 15% of your incomes into those.

Um, yep. Is a great place to start and then start attacking the house. You guys have some movement you can be making for sure with this money.

All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 244. Wisdom With Money Means Moving Slowly | January 9, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:50:16 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on the Ramsey Networks.

He is Ramsey personality. That is my co-host today. The phone number is 888255225.

Sarah is in Atlanta. Hi Sarah, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh I'm doing good. So my question is that um so I am in a relationship. We are not married. Um but we do just call each other as partners. We're both unhappy. I've voiced it. He's voiced it.

And it's mainly due to our communication style and our lack and our differences.

Like for me, I'm more of a a person like I love a clean house. I love to be supported by like acts of service and um going out together. He's more of a homebody and he's really affectionate.

But I didn't grow up to be like affectionate person. And um when we do

talk about issues um it does become

escalated very quickly such as if we're not seeing eye to eye, he's quick to yell and point fingers and I'm more so just withdraw like I'll go to a different room or I say just talk to me later when you um when you're calm. So, I'm just want to know like how can we better communicate without um or how do I handle him or handle situations when he's yelling at me and um how to do

better with that so he can see my perspective and see see it more like a team issue instead of like he's against me or I am against him.

>> How long have y'all been dating?

>> So, we've been together for five years and we have a child together. M

>> has the relationship been the way you just described to us the entire time?

>> Oh, no. It was way worse in the beginning. So, um, he would >> Well, at least we're trending up. That's I didn't expect that answer. What do you think is caused it to get better?

>> I think it's caused what caused it to get better is maybe I've I'm one of those people like I learn to protect myself like my emotional state. So sometimes I just withdraw and I think of something else cuz in the beginning he was very verbally abusive towards me like he'll yell at me, he'll curse me out like for hours on end like for 3 hours or 4 hours even when I was pregnant.

>> Oh no it's not happening anymore. Like we talked um I talked about it. He was like asking me like why am I less obscession and so on. I'm like well how I can't be affectionate to someone who's like um and trying to purposely intimidate me and he has said before that he does purposely try to make me cry because he says sometimes he feels like I don't have emotion.

>> No, I hear you. Let me ask another question. Is it getting better? Not because he all of a sudden got control of his anger, but because you've just detached so much and you've cowered or you have I'm going to use the word detached for lack of a better word to where he's no longer irritated.

So, you're almost a shell of yourself.

>> I feel like it's better. Uh I feel like it's a little bit um of both. I feel like me detaching um and taking my

emotions away from the situation has made me handle the situations better, such as telling him like I'm not going to talk to him when he's yelling at me or just walking away. That has worked out for me cuz he seems like he finally got the message. >> The bottom line is you all you all suck at interpersonal relationships.

>> Yeah. >> Both of you. Okay.

>> Um and you because you won't set a boundary. You should never let anyone treat you the way you've been treated under any circumstances.

>> Period. And so if you were my daughter,

I would have removed you from that house and left him in duct tape.

>> Oh, >> you ain't yelling at my kid.

>> This is ridiculous.

>> Okay, it's ridiculous.

>> No one should be treated the way you've been treated. And you should never allow someone to treat you the way you've been treated. And um and so that should have

stopped the very first time it happened, not 5 years ago. So the only shot you

guys have got, if you have one, is to sit down with a good coach, a good counselor. We're not that. Uh I'm just

an old guy that's been married 43 years, and I don't yell at my wife, not if I want to live.

>> And so um she's a hillbilly woman.

Frying pan throwing from East Tennessee is a Olympic event. So, um, you know, we

don't we don't do that stuff. So, uh,

uh, you know, we get angry, we have arguments, but we don't treat each other that way. And so, you you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor, go see a good pastor at local church and

uh, begin to get some guidance through.

>> You you've got indepth relational training that you need to do. Um, you've got some of the verbiage around it. So, you've been reading or doing something.

So, you you know, you picked up a few things along the way, but I don't think on a call, one phone call on a podcast

that two old dudes can tell you how to fix all this. >> Hey, whoa. Easy, easy with the old. I don't I don't I don't know that I'm going to accept that label.

Hey, one >> compared to her. Fair. One thing I final thing I would say in encouragement uh very much because you're not married, I think I would throw a really strong ultimatum. The the the line is drawn in the sand today.

as soon as this call is over. And and that's what we're you're gonna say to him.

>> Then I'm no longer going to be in a relationship with you. I that would be the the one piece of advice. I would drop that today. Draw the line.

It stops. >> And one way this goes forward, healing through therapy. >> That's it. That's it.

Um because this is a really dysfunctional situation. It's not fair to either one of you. It's not fair to him to keep acting like that and think he can get away with it in society. And it's not fair to you uh obviously for all the reasons. So, and guys, you know,

Sharon and I after we've been married 10 years, we've been married 43. We spent about 3 years in the marriage counselor's office. Um, that was about 3 years after we went broke. When we went broke, we couldn't afford Yeah.

We tried, we just instead were just angry all the time. But, uh, but finally, we got a little bit of money and we're like, "Okay, we got to work on this." And the marriage counselor for me, I was telling Deloney this the other day, it was not, you know, people like, "I don't want to I don't need therapy.

What I needed was a tutor.

>> What I needed was a relationship tutor.

>> Yeah. >> Someone to teach me how to talk to my wife, how to how to hear my wife, how to hear my own heart. You know, it's a it's a relationship tutor. >> I like the tutor. You know what it also, >> if you want to call it, it's a mirror. I was like I was like I was going to school. Yeah. I felt like I was going to class. >> That's what I was doing. And I did I learned a lot during those three years.

Some of it I spout back at you people.

But uh when you call in here, but yeah.

Um but we weren't starting from where you're starting. Honey, y'all got a lot of work to do. Um and if you do not do it, um this is going to continue to deteriorate and it's not going to end well. So you've got it doesn't get better unless it gets better. It's that simple. And this, you know, re getting it to where it's tolerable is not okay.

That's not it's not a way to live your life. You don't get the end of your life and this been the definition of your whole life. Why would you do that?

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Well, there's a lot of chaos and a lot of noise out there about the economy, about your money right now.

And you can't win. You know that, right?

It's impossible.

Well, we don't know that. You have more control than you think. This time, this

time of year, it's time for you to take back your money. Starting at our free every dollar live stream that is tonight at 700 p.m. It's hosted by me and Jade.

And we're going to give you the clarity you need to finally get ahead with money. And we're giving away $20,000 tonight. 10 $2,000 gifts. No purchase

necessary. All you have to do is to enter. All you have to do to enter the giveaway is to sign up for the live stream. And it's tonight at ramseyolutions.com/livestream.

We would love to have you. There's several hundred,000 of you have already registered. And we've got a oh between two and 3,000 folks going to be in the Ramsey Event Center with us as we're doing it live. Bunch of them already sitting outside here watching the show today. So there we go. It's going to be a lot of fun. You guys look forward to having you. All right. Hannah is with us in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Hannah. How are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I, we're in our 30s.

We have a 19-month-old and no debt. We

take home about 6850 per month. um our

mortgage with taxes, insurance, and the HOA um is about 2,800 right now because

we have of an underpayment of taxes last year and next year it'll hopefully be 2400. Um so we're just wondering if we

should sell our home and downgrade and rent an apartment instead. Um or continue to be in our home. We don't really have much of an emergency savings, about $4,000. Um, and we want

to work to eventually be to be a stay-at-home mom at some point.

>> Okay.

Uh, well, the the deal is this, okay?

You can survive your house paying being 40% of your take-home pay for a period of time. You just can't prosper.

>> There's no room in your budget because you're house poor. And so the answer is

if you can't fix that in a reasonably

close period of time or if you're if you do fix it and then you turn around and quit and it starts over again then that means we have a house that you can't afford if you stay home. Right.

>> Yeah. Mhm. >> And if if your husband never gets a raise and the taxes keep going up on the

or you never get a raise on the household income. Let's say the the payment goes up continually and your income doesn't. Well, obviously that's not sustainable, right?

>> Yeah. >> And so, uh, but if you're in a situation, hey, my husband's finishing up an apprenticeship, he's going to be making double, uh, or whatever, and, you

know, and it's 5 months from now or a

year from now. Yeah, you can hang on for a period of time, right? But as you have already discovered, that's why you're asking the question. There's no wiggle room in your life. No margin to be able to win with.

>> No. Yeah. Exactly.

>> So, are you going to be able to fix this in a reasonable period of time?

>> No, he's still working on getting his bachelors, which is going to probably take a couple more years. And the plan was for me to just continue working until hopefully he gets a higher paying position and then I can quit my job. Um, but it's going to always take a couple more years before he >> What does he do now?

He works for um a hospital just in like their billing department.

>> Making what?

>> Uh I think like $30 an hour. He makes about 30 um I think 35

takehome per month and I make about 31 take home. >> What would the bachelor's degree What would it get him? What degree for what reason?

um either accounting or finance to either go and be like an accountant somewhere or maybe a financial analyst is what we're thinking of pursuing for him. >> Yeah. Uh could he uh does he have margin

to where he could pick up uh some projects, some other clients doing bookkeeping, the very thing he wants to uh get a degree for, but could do some some and I'm going to call it basic fundamental bookkeeping. Could he do that timewise?

Um, I mean with school it'd be really hard for him to have that. >> No, I'm going to say all right. So, what if we drop school? Would he have time?

>> Yeah. Yeah. If if he drops school, then he can learn to do that and then he'd be able to have time for it. For sure.

>> I here's the challenge. If I were sitting with you guys in your kitchen, I would be looking at alternate paths to do the kind of work he wants to do that don't require the bachelor's degree. it might require it, but you know, if it's the type of work and, you know, he can get some certifications, I would be looking at that and and I would be okay pausing school for a season. If he has

to have the degree to do the accounting work he wants to do, then I get it.

>> If he's going to get a masters and get a CPA, then he's obviously got to do it.

>> Yeah. >> But if you're not going to go that route, if you just want to learn accounting, um, yeah, that's way different. And so,

but here's here's the thing. You can't just wave a one and say, "I get to do all of these things." >> Mhm. >> Okay. Not make enough money, >> not and have too much house and quit my job and wait on him to wander through this bachelor's for no apparent reason.

>> Okay? We need to really get nailed down here exactly where we're going, when we're getting there. And then that'll tell you is this house a blocker or is this something we just need to hang on to for a minute and then it's going to be okay? Because if you told me he was getting ready to graduate and you know even in 24 months and his income was going to double and he's going to be making 60 70,000 and you know your income is going to go up and you can figure out something you could do from home even with a baby.

income overall goes up substantially then the house is going to be fine. But you may, you know, but you don't want to trade a house you can't afford for your desire to be at home with a kid, too.

I'd rather you be in a cheap house and be home with a kid if that's your desire. And so, you guys got to make these conscious decisions. But you really, the old thing, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't do both. Okay. Casey's with us in Atlanta.

Hi, Casey. How are you?

>> I'm doing well in yourself. >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I just received a job offer. I'd be switching from a Thank you. I'd be switching from a work from home position that I currently have to a home health position where I drive around the metro area and provide services to patients in their home. Uh I would be receiving a significant pay increase. Last year I've ended the year for my full-time job with about 64 thou uh 64,000 and my offer

letter for my base pay for my new job would be about 120,000.

>> WOW. >> WOW. THAT IS HUGE. Love it, Casey. Way to go. >> Thank you. Thank you. I guess the question lies um I drive a 2005 Toyota

Corolla. Had the same car since college.

It has over $200,000 miles on it. And the question lies in would you still recommend only $1,000 in emergency

savings and then pouring my extra into my student loan debt? Because my major concern is that with this home health job, my car is my livelihood. If I'm not able to see patients, I'm not able to have money. And because I have an older car, uh I I just kind of am hesitant

about not having a backup plan immediately or having even worse, having to go into debt to get another car.

>> Yeah. You're making But you're making $10,000 a month.

>> Fair.

>> Okay. So, if the car breaks, rent a car

for a month, save up five grand, and go buy a car.

Okay.

>> But the car isn't going to break.

>> I hope you're right, Dave. >> It does sometimes, but if it does, I mean, if it's a $1,000 car, it's a it's a throwaway car, right? We get another throwaway car and we do it again. And you you upgrade to a $5,000 car.

But you just put everything on hold, rent a car for a month, and then go >> uh and rent the cheapest little thing you can rent for a month. Um and >> and then go do that. Um, you're not married, right? You're single.

>> Okay. All right. Cuz there So, there's no backup plan. I mean, there's no other car in the driveway type thing. Okay.

>> Correct. >> So, um, that's what I was double-checking, but yeah, that's what I would do. Um, and here's the thing.

>> I'll be honest. I I am, um, stereotyping

your car.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. If you told me it was a Dodge Neon, I might change my answer.

>> I was thinking the same thing. >> Your car Your car is the ultimate cool hoopy.

>> These cars have so much life in them.

>> Yeah. >> You might get another 200,000 out of that stupid thing. I don't want you to. I want you to get a better car than that. But >> but you know, how much student loan debt have you got?

>> 73,000. >> Oh man. Yeah. You're going to be done with that in about 18 months and moving up in car. I like it, Casey.

Congratulations. Well done. That's what I would do. >> You know, she's got to drive around Atlanta. I just want to point out having lived there for 11 years, you know, if you go to hell and you live in the south, you have to go through Atlanta.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's just the worst driving around. So, we'll pray for her.

>> Absolutely.

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Wayne is in Indiana. Hey Wayne, how are you? Hey Dave, I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, first off, I should just just say that I am signed up for the live stream tonight and Awesome. Thank you. I'm really looking forward to that. >> Thank you.

>> So, I know you have a background in real estate and you've run your own business for literally decades. So, I'm hoping you might have some useful advice for me. >> I'll try. Um, my wife and I have been married for a few years and frankly I refuse to merge our finances because I find her financial habits to be pretty chaotic.

of her work. Um, she is a real estate agent and has been doing that for over 10 years. Um, we tried to speak about this a few times, but it generally ends in tears and not a whole lot changes.

Um, so I'm just looking for, you know,

any helpful advice you might have on how to untangle the business from the personal life and um, you know, how to uh, I make meaningful changes in that

regard.

>> Okay. Now, you you understand that when

you sell real estate, your income by definition is straight commission and is chaotic.

>> Yes, I understand that. That's not what you're talking about.

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, I'm not I'm not talking about like the fluctuations in just making sure

there are certainly fluctuations. Yeah.

No, I just mean like >> So the basically a real estate agent is what we call 1099 or an independent subcontractor. So they run their own business. Each real estate agent owns runs and owns their own business and has to pay taxes as a sole proprietorship or

some some of them actually build an LLC for a crew for for a team. Okay? And so

what she should do and anytime you open a business even if it's a soloreneur, a single person is you open a separate checking account for the business.

It can even be just a a it can be sole

proprietorship. doesn't have to be incorporated. You don't even have to get a tax number. You can use your social security number. So, it would be uh Wayne's wife DBA doing business as

Wayne's wife's real estate. Okay?

Whatever the name is, right?

>> And it's just open in her social and you can put your name on the account as well, but that you have a separate account. Then 100%

of the business expenses

only come out of that account. So, when

she gets ready to pay her MLS dues, her real estate dues, when she gets ready to buy signs or ads or, you know, pay for a

drone to do a get ready to stage a house, whatever it is that she's doing to sell the house, those are business expenses. Groceries do not come out of

that. >> Mhm. >> Electricity for your home does not come out of that. It's only business expenses. And business expenses never come out of the personal account. They need to be separated. This is good business regardless of your frustration.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Because it's very difficult for her to do her taxes if that you have to go and unravel your personal checkbook and pull out your business expenses one at a time at the end of the year.

>> Yeah. And that's that's what she's been doing. >> I know that's what most of them do and it sucks. Okay. And it's horrible. So,

you know, one of the things when we're coaching Ramsey trusted real estate agents, we teach them to run the back office, so to speak, the business aspect of their business. And part of that is basic accounting. So, if you only take business expenses out of that account, and the only thing you put into that account are real estate commissions.

By definition, what's left in that account is called profit.

>> Sure. And out of that profit, you can leave some to cover some of the expenses next month and you can bring some home.

When you bring some home is when I would hold back a fourth of it for taxes.

>> Mhm. >> Because you've got your income taxes and you got 15.3 both sides of FICA.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so you set aside 25% you're going to be really close unless she's making a half million a year and then it's not enough. But if you set aside 25% of your money you pull out that's profits into another account, then she can file her quarterly estimates, which she's probably also not doing.

>> Yeah. That not >> Yeah. And getting penalized every stinking year for not filing the quarterly estimates.

>> It's costing y'all a lot of money this disorganization. >> Okay. It's costing her a lot of money.

>> Uh just because, you know, just because we're not and this is sixth grade math.

>> It's just a matter of the discipline of separation is all it is. So, we run the business over there like we're running it for someone else emotionally.

And then when it has some profit, we take some out, bring it home, hold the taxes out, and then we've got some money to add to the household budget and the household goals.

>> But until that happens, until there's a profit in that account, she's not made money in the real estate business. How many houses she selling a year?

>> Um, I'd say 15.

>> She's making a little money. She's not making much. >> Yeah.

>> Her expenses are eating up a bunch of that. >> Mhm. >> But we don't but we don't even know that >> because we're not doing a good job of keeping the accounting.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, this is an accounting and a business acumen, a business function.

Now, I don't know how to emotionally get her to do that, but that's the proper way a residential real estate agent should handle their business or for that matter any soloreneur out there. Yeah. And my advice is is I I have to bet that Wayne, you're the you're the nerd of the family. >> Oh, I think that's safe. >> And I think that if she's open, if she's

open to you helping you do exactly what Dave just told you to do and you lead on this and it sounds like the tears, the stuff that keeps coming up from the tears is just the frustration between the two of you on this. So, I think Dave just gave you a very simple but actually effective blueprint. And this is where you come in. Not like the the guy on the white horse is the hero makes her feel bad.

Go, you know what, babe? I've not supported you the way I need to support you and I can do this. I'm wired for this. I called Dave.

I got a plan.

>> You got to lead. She she may not uh be

confident of her competence to do this.

>> And uh that would be true of a lot of people. So, um, yeah. Um,

and there are some nerds that sell residential real estate, but most of them aren't.

>> Mo most of them, I mean, this is this is an an industry that has glamour shots on their business card. Okay. So, this is usually not a nerd, right? And so, >> at times, I've seen boas.

>> Yes, I have seen that, too. And we're not talking the constrictor type. Yeah.

But the uh um yeah the uh yeah it's so

so it may be that she's not got the detail wiring that you have Wayne or even that I have that'll force you to do that in order to get the business run properly. Uh, but you know, I if she's

wrecking the car and you can help her drive it and she's willing to let you, then that's a cool idea from uh from Ken to come alongside and support rather than stand back and throw grenades and go, "Wow, you really are stupid about this." >> Well, it's spoken from experience and I'm really glad, Dave, that you just made this point to our broader audience here. Here's what you need to understand, especially if you're in a married situation. You're trying to figure out finances. I'm not wired like Dave.

like me do thrive with a very simple repeatable plan. That was a simple repeatable plan. Every time you sell a house, you get a commission. This is what you do and you laid it out. But for those of you that are the nerds and you're married to people like me, I know we frustrate the absolute snot out of you. And you're right to be frustrated.

But it's very key to point out we are not doing it. In this case, I don't believe Wayne's wife is doing this to drive him nuts. She's not wired that way. Dave used the word wired. It's really important to understand that that spouse will will play ball with you if

you give them the structure that they need, which comes with its own accountability. You don't have to be accountability if you give them structure and a repeatable process. And that's the magic of what Dave did decades ago with these baby steps. But in that advice he just gave that will bring a lot of relational harmony around money if you understand that your spouse just doesn't even think the way you think.

Therefore, all that process stuff that Dave just laid out, it never enters into their mind that that's how to do it. And I just I think there needs to be grace there cuz I know what that >> I'll tell you what enters into my mind when I'm doing that cuz I'm a great salesman. >> Yeah. >> I always think I could just out earn my >> stupidity.

I Oh yeah.

>> I'll just I'll just going to make I don't need to I don't need to add all this up. I'll just make some more.

That's right. Just then I don't have to deal with it. Yeah, that's how I used to try and it doesn't work. It's really a very immature thing, but a lot of sales people think that way.

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Jackson's in New York. Hi, Jackson. How are you? >> Good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I recently, maybe not recently, a

few months ago, came into a large inheritance uh from my parents.

>> Wow. >> Um, and I'm just wondering what to do with it. >> Wow. Sorry you lost them.

>> Um, thank you. >> How much did you get?

>> Uh, around 450,000. Cool. Cool. So, how

long have you been listening to this listening to us?

>> Um, probably maybe about a little less than a year. >> Okay. >> My brother's a big fan of you.

>> Okay. Well, thank you.

I was asking because I didn't know how far to go back to give you the answer.

But um so uh we would walk you through

the framework called the baby steps with that money because we believe and we know that if you follow through and handle money properly after that and during that that it will be the the way that this money gives you the most lift.

Okay. And so that means do you have any debt except your home?

Um, so we actually um just sold our home

and that's what most of the money was tied up in. So right now I'm renting um

and um I have no debt. I just graduated college. >> Okay, cool. Cool. And how old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Wow. Okay. So we sold our home. That was

your parents' home, you mean?

>> Uh yeah, it was um uh my parents were separated, but it was my mother's home.

Um, and it had a lot of my father's money tied up in it. Um, and so me and my two brothers sold that house uh 6 months ago. >> And your part is 450,000.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And you're 23. Are you married? >> I am not. >> Okay. And what do you make a year?

>> Uh, right now I make 75,000 a year.

>> Good for you. Okay.

>> Thank you. >> What is your uh plan over the next few years? Where do you plan to be?

Um, so right now, um, I'm just I'm just

renting with my brother, um, in our hometown. Um, >> and I plan, so I'm working in, um, the city, um, and I live in Long Island, and I'm planning to move to the city sometime in the future.

>> Um, maybe, um, about a year.

>> Um, so I just have all of that money um that, um, that I got from the house that I didn't have previously just sitting in a CD right now, which pays my rent every month. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Not a bad move

for for the first move anyway. That way you didn't go do something stupid with it, right? And so >> yeah, my time, too. >> Yeah. What do you What do you do for a living?

>> I work in financial technology.

>> Okay, good. Good. Well, you're very early in your career, so I predict your income will go up pretty dramatically in the next seven years. Would that be a fair prediction?

>> Uh, I'd say so. >> Yes. And I also predict that the 450,000

could grow a lot in the next seven years. Like if it was invested at market rates, it would double in about seven years and be about 900. 450 will not buy

anything in the city. Would you agree with that? >> Uh yes. >> Not paid for. I mean, you could put it as a down payment, but you couldn't pay for it. And you don't really make enough to pay a payment and put 450 down in the city hardly. So you're probably renting if you're living New York Manhattan lifestyle, right?

Uh, so right now I'm on Long Island.

>> I know, but you said you're moving to the city. >> Yes, but I will be renting. Yes. >> Yeah, that's what you told me. Yeah. So, I'm I'm projecting what to do. In other words, we're not going to use this to buy a house cuz we can't pay cash for it with your current plan.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, given that, I'm going to tell you to go to ramseolutions.com, click on smartvetor pro, sit down with

one of the people that we recommend, and start learning about investing, >> okay? and put it in some good growth stock mutual funds and continue to keep your dad gum hands off of it. That's been very wise on your part. Very wise,

beyond your years wise.

>> And so keep leave it alone. Leave it alone. Pretend like you don't have it >> and just use your income and live off your income barely, which you barely can living in the city. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And just let this money grow because if you don't touch it, it will double every seven years.

Sounds good to me. >> That that's about that's about the averages. Okay. Now, so and uh so the

S&P 500, have you ever heard of that?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. That's the basically the bell weather, the mark of what the stock market has done. Closed the year for 2025, up 16%.

It closed the year the year before up 26%. It closed the year before up 25%.

It averages throughout its lifetime a little over 11 up close to 12%. That's

the average. But in the last 3 years, it's done 67% total.

>> So while you had this sitting in a CD making 3%, it should have made e five

times as much.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. So I don't want you doing that next year. I want it to be in a good investment instead of in a CD.

>> Understood? So go over there and learn about it with a good Smart Investor Pro

and uh don't put money in something because I said to or someone else said to, but because you start to understand it and I've got a feeling after talking to you, you'll be able to understand it.

>> Yeah, >> I think so. >> Yeah, this is a mass don't forget something. This is a massive head start for you. And so when Dave's preaching discipline, it's because we realize >> how much of a massive head start this is for a 23-y old who's very upwardly mobile >> in his profession. So >> and you're just leave it alone.

>> You're so wise. I mean, you didn't call me up and say, "I need to buy a Lamborghini," >> you know, I mean, cuz I would have smacked you sideways. I mean, you know, for your own sake, you know, you're just you're just a sharp 23 year old. And um

that you know talking to these guys like this is why I've become such a huge fan and I've got them on our team here of these Gen Z's. There's so many of these Jacksons in the Gen Z. >> That's right. You know I'm not saying he should do this, Dave.

I'll throw this out and see what you think about this, but my head when you were talking I sorry I tried to put myself in his position at 23 no debt and now he's going to be in really good shape. I I would say a small amount of money I would consider a small but enough to make an impact.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. >> I I think it's so really rewarding when we come into money, whether we earn it or it's a gift, and to think about how to bless somebody that you would not have been able to bless before. I'm gonna tell you, it's a really great way to to begin to appreciate the power of money, not just from compound interest that we teach, but as you teach, and you've been making it so clear for so long, live like no one else so that later you can live and give. And that is

such a key thing. And in this case, I think he could bless somebody with some amount. >> I think that'd be a brilliant idea. Kyle is in Atlanta. Hey, Kyle. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes. So, um I'm actually post college. I graduated about seven months ago. Um and currently my situation is I have uh two credit cards. Now, I know that um that isn't great. And uh however, I am

looking at an opportunity to consolidate those to one credit card that is attached to my current bank with a much lower interest rate because I want to pay it off and be done with it. I don't want to deal with credit cards anymore.

>> What's the balance on the cards? Um, one of them is 2,300 and the other one is a little shy of 1,200. >> Okay. >> And what is your current interest rate?

>> Um, from what I was understanding yesterday, I think it was 20 something.

>> And what is the new interest rate?

>> Um, the new one's 6 to 8%.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're going to save about $350, $375 a year,

>> right? >> That's okay. That's okay. >> It's not bad. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't fix a $3,500 problem. You know what fixes a $3,500 problem, Kyle?

You, >> right? >> You're the secret sauce, not consolidation. The problem with consolidation is you think you did something. You moved $375 around. That's okay. If you hand it to me, I'll take it. I'll go buy dinner.

>> But it doesn't it doesn't fix your problem. What fixes your problem is you get pissed off about these cards. You cut them up and you swear off of them forever and say, "Samuel L. Jackson, what's in your wallet?" >> Right. Right. You go get your own stinking life and you get these stinking things paid off. What do you make a year? >> Um, so not a ton. So postgraduation I make 17 a year. Um, >> oh god, you're at the poverty level.

What'd you get a degree in?

>> Uh, so I actually got a degree in film and television, but that's not what I'm currently working in. >> Okay. All right. I want you to get six jobs, Kyle.

>> Right. >> It's not a joke. in Atlanta, which is when it's one of the hottest areas for film and television, you could be making uh way more than that just as a grip.

Lighting grip, sound, something or other. Just get on a set somewhere.

>> Just a grunt.

>> Not even a grunt. Oh my gosh, that's incredible. >> That's awful, Kyle. Kyle, you don't work much. >> No, >> you need to work more. A lot more. Like

all the time, Kyle. And that's going to solve this. You cannot hack your way out of credit card debt. You have to earn your way out of credit card debt. There is no hack. There is no easy button. So yeah, consolidate them if you want, dude. But don't act like you did something.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of The Front Row Seat, one of our big hits on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Open Phones at 88 8255225.

Heather's in Fort Meyers. Hey Heather, what's up?

>> Hi, how are you? It's an honor to speak with you. >> You too. How can I help? Uh yes. Okay.

Uh Dave, I am reading uh rebuilding my life after my husband of 30 years walked away from our marriage. >> Wow. >> Um since then.

>> Yeah. >> Sorry.

>> No, it's it's okay. Um since then, um I

have furthered my education and um I

received my nursing degree.

>> Good for you. >> And there's a lot more back backstory, but we don't have enough time for that.

>> Good for But um thank you. Um I'm 54

years old and I'm I'm single and um I

work as a a registered nurse.

>> Uh yearly I am making 90K.

>> Good for you. >> I have just under 100K in my work uh

403.

Um I contribute 20% and my work contributes the the 5%. Mhm.

>> Um and in my um high yield savings account um I have 170K.

>> I have zero debt, >> no student loans. However, I rent

because I'm just not sure at this point in my in my life like what my next step

is going to be where >> Yeah. How long ago was the divorce?

>> You know, it it's been four years.

>> Okay. You're amazing. You've done a great job recovering. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. Well, it's definitely been a >> Oh, it's unbelievable. It's a tragedy, but yeah, but you pulled it off, warrior girl. >> Way to Well done. >> Thank you. >> Well done. >> Thank you. >> Cool. So, what's your question? So, I mean, my question is with what you know

of my finances right now and if I um

because I really haven't been con uh saving much money as as much as I could be

because I think I went through a period of time where um I was spending

you know spending my money because I knew I had the money and you know >> you were medicating it's called retail therapy.

Yeah, that's okay. >> That's exactly in the rearview mirror people and >> Yeah. Yeah. Good. >> Yeah. So, I'm really this year um I'm

wanting to maximize as much as I can.

>> I love it. >> So, um I want to, you know, maybe own my own home or condo, but I just don't know at this point, you know, where am I going to be? Am I going to stay in Florida? Am I going back to Tennessee?

Because I lived in East Tennessee.

>> Um so, what would you recommend? And what more can I do to secure my future?

And am I going to have enough money to retire if I, you know, this >> you're going to have plenty of money to retire? You're going to be fine.

>> You're you're going to retire a multi-millionaire.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's what the math says. I didn't just make that up. The math says that. Okay. >> So, let me let me walk you through.

There's two things that we need to do.

>> We need to maximize investing and we need to get a house and get it paid for.

>> Yes. Okay. that that's definitely >> so if you're 11 years from today and you're sitting in a paid for house and you've been putting away 25 or $30,000 a year during that time, you're going to have millions of dollars.

>> All right. >> Okay. So, and the way you'll know that is you need to sit down with someone and help do the calculations and help figure out how to do the investing and what to do. >> The only question on the horizon is which city you're going to be in. And as soon as you make that decision, buy a house.

>> Yes. with that 170. >> Well, it's either going to be the Cape um >> either Florida or East Tennessee >> possibly. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, make once you decide and you don't have to decide today on this call, but once you decide, take the 170 and go buy a house.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> And then and then sit down with a Ramsey Smart Vest Pro. Go to ramsolutions.com, click on smartvester, find someone in your area, sit down, talk to them in order to for us to send people to them.

They don't work for us, okay? They're independent people. They're in the investment business. I'm not in the investment business. I'm in the education business. >> So, uh, but in order for that, they have to have the heart of a teacher or they don't get Ramsay the name on them. Okay?

>> Meaning, they're going to teach you how to do this investing, you're going to understand it, and you're going to decide. But if you put this in good growth stock mutual funds and you average market returns, you're going to have um, you know, several million dollars going into your 70s and a paid for house.

Okay. >> If you stay diligent and stay on this, >> yes. Now, >> if you go back to retail therapy and start blowing everything, then no, you can't you can't act like you're in Congress, right? Okay.

>> So, but but I don't think you're going to because I think you just went through a >> you know, a tragedy. You went through a horrible time. You've got that in the rearview mirror. You've worked your way through the >> all all the parts of that. And now the future's bright and we need shades.

>> Yeah. And you're young.

>> Yeah. And and I mean that um and I I

think uh here here's what I would encourage you. This isn't a challenge.

You don't need to be challenged, but I would encourage you to make the decision about where you want to live based on what kind of life you desire. Not a not a safe not a safe choice because I'm

from East Tennessee. And again, I'm not anti- East Tennessee. I'm sitting next to, you know, Mr. Tennessee here. I love Tennessee. Uh I want to be here for the

for the for the long haul. But I do think in someone in your position having come through what you've come through and financially where do you want to be when you're 65 >> that's you got to choose your future because you actually are in a position to do so because of that great degree >> and now you are highly soughta anywhere in the United States. So choose the place you want to be >> and then let the rest of the future take care of itself cuz financially >> you're going to be fine if you do what you've been doing.

>> Yeah. you keep making this kind of money and you start socking away 30,000 bucks a year, which you can do in either one of those local and you can even make more if you wanted to, if you want to work more because there's all kinds of ER opportunities and everything else for you to go get, you know, you can just work all the time if you want to. And I'm not suggesting that, but if you want to pile up some money, you can do it in your world. That's the beautiful beauty of that degree.

You can work all the freaking time. >> That's the truth. >> And um >> you get some bargains in Florida right now. >> It's resetting.

Real estate is resetting in some parts of Florida. >> Really? Okay. not complete, you know, not a crash, but we're seeing some prices that can be favorable.

And again, you teach this, you know, if you get in in a soft moment, I I don't think Florida's going to be long-term a bad place to invest in a house. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Very cool. So, I mean, like Ken, you remember during uh CO, we had these travel nurses coming in here. >> Oh.

>> And they were m they had worked like a year on the road during CO. They were getting COVID pay and travel pay and they were making like 400 and 500 grand as a nurse. >> I was on with you one day when we took a call from a gal who had made about that kind of money >> in one year. >> One year.

>> Yeah. And it's not it's not out there today, but I mean they were getting co money like battle money, right?

>> Like battle zone money and they were getting travel money both. And cuz you know it was crazy and they were just loading up man. There's two or three of them we talked to that had you know I had I had $200,000 in student loan debt.

paid it all off this year and put 300 in the bank, you know, like what?

>> Wow. So, it's just a it's a wonderful career field. Um because it gives you lots of opportunities and choices and things. >> So, and you know, when you go through something like a divorce after 30-year marriage, >> recovering from that, >> I can't even >> is not a bounce back.

>> No, that's a claw out.

>> O. Yeah. >> I mean, that's a healing process to get to where you're as solid as she is talking to her. Yeah. >> And she's solid. >> Yeah. >> Very, very neat. Congratulations. I'm very proud of you.

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>> Jessica is in Dallas. Hi Jessica. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. You're breaking up. Try

one more time.

>> Sorry. >> I'm doing well. How about yourself?

>> I'm doing good. Your phone's not. How can we help?

>> Um, yeah. I was just wanting to just get

some advice on um what what's realistic and what's not.

I just need like an outside an outsider

opinion. Um,

>> um, I'm wondering what would be what's a

realistic time frame of having a

business operating before you shut it down due to not

having it not be profitable?

>> Okay. What kind of business?

>> It's a lawn care business.

>> Should be profitable the first month.

Why isn't it profitable?

I I don't know. It's not a lot of jobs

coming in, I guess.

>> Okay. All right.

>> So, we have a lawn care business, but we don't do much lawn care, >> right? >> Okay. Why?

>> Uh well, I I mean, I live in an area

where uh there there are water restrictions, so really you're not

allowed to water your lines.

Um, so there's a lot of dead grass. Um,

a lot of people just are >> So you don't think there's people in the area making a living in lawn care business in Dallas, Texas where there's water restrictions?

>> Uh, well, no. I see people

let their um,

I lost all of that. Try again.

Uh there I do see people other lawn care

companies out there mowing lawns and um

working. I just don't know why it it's

not working for us.

>> Who's us? I feel like we've been too hypothetical. Let's get real brass tax.

>> This is your husband's business, right?

>> Right. >> How long has it How long has he been in this dead zone of business? It's not doing well. How long has this been going on?

Uh, he started the business when I was

five months pregnant and now our baby's

about >> No, no, let me ask it again. How many calendar months has it been? A year, two year, how many years has the business been struggling? How many years? A number >> like the the entire the entire time like

when you say struggling, >> good God. How many months? >> I'm just asking for a number. How many years?

>> Um, like 20 like 20 months. 20 months.

>> Okay. So, two years. You've had two seasons and he didn't make a living.

>> I just feel like there's more underneath the surface here. I don't know if we can identify it because you're asking us for some magical answer as to what does the business book say. But the bottom line is if we can't pay the bills with the

business, there's no reason to have the business. >> Yeah. He needs to go work for somebody.

>> Homeare is not a hobby.

>> So, we need to make a profit. And really, honestly, you should make a profit the first time you cut a piece of grass. There's really not not that much to it. Um, I mean, just work your butt

off is the problem. It doesn't sound like he works much is what it sounds to me. >> Yeah. >> Are you saying that under all this?

>> Your husband doesn't work very hard.

>> Well, yeah, he only does a few jobs a week. >> Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, I think he needs to get a job. Yeah, so does lawnmowers. Yeah, because I don't think he's got the stuff to go get the business and keep the business and get up out of bed and go do the business.

>> That's correct. >> And so until he gets that stuff going, you have to be what we call a selfstarter. Hello. And um

we're not talking about his lawnmower. We're talking about him. And so u yeah, you need to sell the sell the equipment and go get a job and because of what you're describing there. But no, there's not a magic when do you know when to close a business. You close a business when what you're doing is not working and there's no uh visible hope of it

getting better and based on what you're telling us nothing has changed here that's causing this to trend upward in a good direction. It's just kind of stuck on not so great. I and this is not a

business problem. This is a and I'm not saying this with unkindness.

I'm telling you he has a problem for because here here's here's the reality.

Somebody who's healthy or remotely healthy, if they've got a business and they only have two jobs a week, they are working other jobs while trying to get that going. That would be called a side hustle if he's healthy. So, something's going on inside of him with him that is the source of this problem. It's not the lawn care business and it's not the watering restrictions. That now that's the hard truth, but that's the reality of you two have to have a marriage conversation.

>> Yeah. throw out the Nintendo. Yeah.

>> I mean, am I right, Dave? You've done this a long time. There there are reasons why a guy won't get out and work. >> There's something something. >> There's always something there.

>> I mean, it's not my generation, but some some generations I hear have a Nintendo problem. But, you know, Call of Duty, but the wrong call and the wrong duty, you know.

>> Well done. >> Yes. Well played, Dave. It's almost like you have a radio show. Steve's in Washington. Hey, Steve. What's up?

Hey, hey, Jent. Uh, thank you for taking my call. >> Sure, man. Well, how can we help?

>> Yeah, first of all, thanks for being you. You both impacted my life greatly.

So, >> thank you. >> I really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Hey, so I've had the privilege to

um start over in life. I just got remarried and um and just to a wonderful

woman and but for until June we have to

live separately cuz I made a commitment to stay in my area until my daughter graduates and then we'll uh connect. So

we did our real first budget meeting on Sunday and we're doing the every dollar app. >> How far about are y'all? How far apart are y'all? >> Uh four and a half hours.

>> Okay. And what does she do for a living?

>> She works for the Department of Justice.

Okay. And what do you do?

>> Uh self-employed and I work two days a week uh part-time as EMT firefighter.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Okay. Wow. All right. So, so you got four months of Wow. >> What's your business? >> It's the weirdest newlywed year ever.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. Um so, um been working

out of debt and I carry a little bit of debt into this, but my business is property management. I um I oversee a

600 acre private ski resort.

>> So, who's who's moving who's moving after June? You >> I Yeah, I will be moving.

>> Uh >> oh. >> Going into the DC metro area, huh?

>> Well, Northern Virginia. >> Um so, she No, no, she works out the Portland office and I'm going to be >> Oh, they're Oh, you're in Washington State. I apologize. Okay.

>> Yeah, Washington State. Yep. and she is going to be transferred to Billings and so we'll have that confirmation in uh March. So it's uh yeah there's just a lot of lot of little things to figure out one step at a time here. So >> how can we help? Um and yeah, so we're

figuring out like how do we I guess um

communicate well as we still live separately but trying to you know as we become one you know budget together and as we're putting each other on on each other's bank accounts and then eventually we'll become one. uh we figure probably best till after we move in June and but right now just like I'm

I bring in I got uh uh under $8,000 to

go uh to be debtree and she is debtree

but at the same time I carry a little bit of shame like I I I brought this in and I don't feel like like I I I can we

can pay it off but also at the same token >> well we are married so we can pay it off that's what goes with it >> right >> and that's that's just the Oh, sorry.

That's the way it works, man. >> For rich or for poor, for sickness and health and she gets the flu, you'll bite make chicken soup. It's the way it works out. >> Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah. I don't know. Any advice, I guess, in that realm. Um, never Yeah. I This is an

awesome blessing to be in. At the same token, I'm like, uh, how do I do this?

Well, >> yeah. Y'all figured out a real strenuous way to do it. That's for sure.

>> Yeah. No kidding. And um so yeah, the only thing I can tell you is that what you're what you're trying to do is difficult at best when you first get married living in the same house and now you just added like a 10x to it by not being there. So the only way I know to cover that is with piles of communication. Like overcommunicate feelings, overcommunicate details,

constantly be working on a stupid budget

like it was a because that's going to give you a place to talk about all this stuff. So like every night we have a budget meeting on the phone about every dollar and every night you talk about it a little bit. I feel a little bit ashamed about this, but I'm still going to work through it. We're going to do it together. and every night and just lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of talk.

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Wow, somebody's listening.

H So I sat here on the air about um James,

how long ago was that? We're talking about real estate fixes.

That's probably probably a month ago.

>> Oh, yeah. It was about a month ago.

>> Probably right after Thanksgiving and this is this is being recorded the first week of the year. So, I said, "Listen, there's a couple things we could do this housing market." The problem with the housing market is there's always been a shortage of inventory for the last two decades really. And the a shortage of inventory is cause the market to get stopped up. And there's a couple things we could do to l loosen the inventory.

And one is to prohibit the institutional

corporate uh hedge funds and the Chinese

from buying blocks and blocks of thousands and thousands of single family homes and taking them off the market.

>> I would vote for that. >> And putting making them permanent rentals and uh so when you do that, you suck out the inventory and when the inventory is sucked out, the market clogs up and stops. And >> Mhm. >> Today, President Trump says he will seek a ban on institutional investors from buying single family homes. >> Is Is he listening to the podcast, Dave?

>> I don't know. He didn't call me, Ken. I know that.

>> He didn't say, "Dave, I got an idea." That's huge. >> You never know, though. You never know.

He's famous for for watching TV and and news and calling in live on shows.

>> Yeah. >> Maybe maybe he'll call in and you can walk him through how to do it. >> Well, I just No. I mean, I'm I'm happy if it's his idea as long as it happens, right?

I don't care whose idea it is. Yeah, this is the other thing we said, and if you're listening, President Trump, we said this one, too, and I hadn't seen this show up yet. Maybe it'll come up within a week or two.

>> So, here's what you do. Make that $2 million. >> Oh. >> And you know what happens? a bunch of boomers that are sitting on a bunch of equity would sell their houses >> and that would unclog the market >> and put a bunch of inventory on the market cuz they would if you could put $2 million in your pocket and go, you know, to wherever, you know, go buy a condo or move down, move down, some of the boomers, right? They would do it.

But right now, they got capital gains on everything over half million dollars. And half million dollars on a lot of gains is not spit. So if you got no capital gains, tax-free up to a half million. Now what if you made that 2 million?

I promise you it move the upper end of the market wide open and when the upper end moves open then that get leaves it breathing room and everything dominoes all the way down to the beginning of the market >> because everybody can move up then they're not stuck. Careful, Dave. You're gonna give America indigestion.

Because it makes so much sense. And those of you who are listening and watching are going, "You're right, Dave. That would be amazing. Why doesn't it happen?" >> And you can write these two things down because it doesn't happen very often.

Dave Ramsey has a government idea to fix anything. >> Well, no, that's just good legislation.

>> I know, but I just The number of times I ask government for help's pretty close to zero. Well, >> this is one of the few things. >> Both of these things they could do and it would actually have an impact and it really wouldn't take long. >> But why won't they, Dave? Tell America why they won't. Oh, >> because they like our tax dollars.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I don't know who they is, but somebody >> they is all of them up there.

>> The whole kitten kaboodle.

>> It's the machine. >> The machine. >> So, what we do is we got to >> Sounds like you sound like a conspiracy theorist, right? >> No, not at all. Not at all. Throw the bums out until they start giving us policies like this. But it's I I listen really quick. I don't want people to miss what Dave just said. These are two very practical things that would absolutely make a huge dent in this real

estate cog happen immediately. Today's question of the day >> is brought to you by Y refi. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, why refi can help dig you out with a low fixed rate refinancing clear path forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Jasmine in Tennessee. We're out of debt and have just finished building a 3 to sixmonth emergency fund. I'm anticipating that one of our two cars may need major repairs soon.

In general, how do you think about deciding when to repair a vehicle versus when to replace it? I don't want to panic buy another car, but I'm also wary of getting ripped off by a mechanic. >> That's a really good question. I think that's about as practical of as a fear as we hear.

money on a car if if, let's say, the car is worth 2500 bucks and it costs 3,000

to fix it. >> Well, you don't do that. >> You don't do that. You know, other than that, you want to try to duct tape it, keep that thing going, get yourself a good quality mechanic. Now, I'm passionate about this particular issue, Dave, because I fall in this category where I'm very suspicious, but we have found through multiple conversations with people that have lived here. When we first moved here, uh, 12 almost 12 years ago, I talked to several people

and tested it out like you would a church or a doctor or maybe the person who cuts your hair when we had some issues come up and we found a really reliable mechanic who we absolutely know is not a thief and a crook. And that's important because if you do that, they will help you and they won't try to rip you off. They'll say, "Okay, here's what could be fixed." Uh, but this is the should be to keep this sucker going from point A to B. That's really important when you're in this hoopty land.

Uh, because it will get you through.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Auto repair is a low trust industry. We were really uh pumped about having Christian Brothers come on.

>> Yes. Absolutely. as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show.

>> And uh we trust Christian Brothers Automotive. I've known these guys a long time. They've had a shop in our area, but they got shops all over.

>> And whether you're just getting started in the Baby Steps or your Baby Steps 7, you want your car to last, we recommend Christian Brothers Automotive, go to CBAC.com/ramsey.

I'll work that into the thing here. Uh they just came on board with us. We're really glad they're here. The answer to your question, Jasmine, is whatever the car is worth as salvage, not fixed, plus

the repair, cannot equal more than the

value after the repair.

>> Mhm. >> So, if the car is worth $1,000 and it takes $3,000 to fix the car at the end,

that's $4,000, but the car is worth two after you fix it. Well, you don't spend that. That's good money after bad. Okay? But you also

look for you may be sitting on a $12,000 car, blew an engine. You don't go to the dealer and buy a brand new engine from the manufacturer. That'll cost more than a new car.

For God's sakes, no. You get a used engine, a rebuilt engine or used engine from a salvage yard, and you have someone like Christian Brothers install it, and you can do that for about 25 cents on the dollar. What I'm talking about with the dealer. So, it depends on what the car is, what the size of the repair is as to all of that.

But by and large, it's a car under $5,000 is the only one you would hardly ever you most always will fix it otherwise cuz you can find an inexpensive way to get it rolling again. Even if you fixed it to sell it, you know, even if you fix it and say, "Okay, now it runs. Now I can sell it for, you know, $4,000 instead of $1,000." And so, but it cost me $1,000 to fix it. Okay, that's good.

That's a good investment, right? So, we can go that way.

They are now the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. John's in

Naples. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Good. So, um I'm just trying to get my financial future started and I'm having a lot of issues with that. I have a little bit of, you know, student loans I want to pay off, but I um I have a little untraditional background with school and, you know, how I got to where I am today. And I'm just kind of struggling to get, you know, off the starting line and kind of into the working force and corporate community, whatever it may be to get my future moving in that direction. >> You have a degree?

>> I do. Yes. I have a bachelor's in business and a masters in data analytics. >> And you can't get a job?

I've done about 2,000 applications.

Well, you suck at that. Gotten >> I've I've met with seuite executives of

Fortune 500 companies, alumni from my university. I've spoken to my university. I've spoken to friends, family. I've gone through just about every avenue that I really know how to.

And I don't I I really don't know what, you know, the miss what the problem is with trying to get through and and you know kickstart my career.

>> What's your income target? What are you asking these people to pay you?

>> Usually I'd put on the lower end of um

what their range is. So I've applied from New York to Anchorage. I've put you know anywhere between 80 to you know some jobs are you know 120 to 150. So I put 120. Sometimes I even put under just to try to get through to, you know, HR to get an interview and it's just not even working.

>> Have you had interviews?

>> I've had a handful, but only because I've had internal referrals have >> and that's where they come from. That's where interviews come from. They don't come from 2,000 applications. Well, I tell you what, hang on. I'm going to bring you back around cuz Coleman is about the best on the planet at this. I want him to help you.

Hey,

hey,

hey.

All right. John's got a degree in a

master's degree in data analytics. Has applied for over 2,000 jobs. Has not been able to get a job. Ken Coleman, help the guy. >> Okay. All right. John, so you've been applying for things and you've been in the 80 to 120,000 range. I think where

I'd want to start is what is a layer or

a level rather below where you've been applying. Is there such a thing or are you saying that those entry level are yielding those kind of salaries?

>> Those are the entry level. Um, one of the issues is that I haven't been able to do an internship. You know, I was an athlete in college and I was training over the summer. So, I was unable to go in and actually, you know, make the connections that way.

So, you know, I when I apply for associate or an analyst level, you know, they say, "Well, he doesn't have experience." And my internal reps who have to fight for me say, "Well, you know, nobody at this level has experience because it's the entry level." So, that's kind of how they have been able to get me through to interviews, but most companies just don't even, you know, I kind of get a a email pretty quickly. >> Okay.

Um, I made it down to the final two and then office politics and some other things went on that just were out of my control and just went in another direction. >> So, you told Dave before we went to break that it was a handful of interviews. Is that right? How many are we talking about that you've actually gotten?

>> I've done four for companies that are

actually based like base salary and I've had a handful that are the commissionbased selling insurance. Not really something I'm interested in.

>> Okay. Um I've done every avenue from I've talked to seuite executives, I've talked to my grad school, my university.

>> Yeah. No, I get it. It's a very wide net. >> I totally get that and I want to I appreciate your activity.

But activity in this particular situation is not the the answer. Just activity 2,000 applications, you might as well have been spitting in the wind driving down the interstate because of the nature of AI and filters and all these things. So what we want to do is is we want to get more of those interviews and you've only got four interviews. The conversation with seaueters, those don't always yield what you think either because while they may give you time, I love that you got there.

So you got some spunk. But here's the deal. The simple advice for you is this. You've got to up the amount of interviews that you're getting.

So 0 for four in today's job economy.

Not surprising. uh there's no question that you're up against the fact that you're uh in entry level and so it's actually more competitive right now for entry level roles. So there's no silver bullet here other than this idea that I wrote a book around. I'm going to give you the book as as my gift to you. It's called the proximity principle. Now what the proximity principle does is it increases your odds of getting actual

interviews. And one of the first things Dave said to you was how are you doing an interview? So, I want to know, have you gotten any feedback from anybody that's interviewed you, uh, to where we don't blame it on office politics and whatever, but any feedback on how you could do better in the interview? Do you have any of that?

>> Um, I've done mock interviews. I've >> great >> don't have any issues with answering the questions. I don't have any issues with my background. It's just, you know, I

don't really know other than the companies I've been fortunate enough because of my internal Rex. I don't know why I I can't even get through to other companies. You know, I bought software to to find out who, you know, hiring managers are. So, after I apply, I'll send them an email, my contact information, telling them why I'm why I'm applying. I'm following up with them. I'm trying to do everything that I've been told to do.

>> And I have, you know, I have the degree, I have the grades, it just for whatever reason, the background of being an athlete doesn't help. >> No, not at all. Nobody cares. Uh and and

so so listen, I'm just trying to tell you, you got to stop saying these things. Not even that helps. Here's the simple thing. You have got to connect relationships. And this is hard work.

>> The four interviews you got, you got the right way. We need to do that 40 times and you'll get a job. >> We have to repeat that process.

>> Not not not cold calling something off of software. Yeah. >> And not filling out applications that are spitting in the wind. >> But here's what I would do today if I were you. You need to be working a job.

And I'm talking stocking shelves at Target. NFL MVP, Hall of Famer Curt

Warner was stocking grocery shelves while playing in the Arena Football League. He did that because he wanted to make it to the NFL. I think it's the same story for you. You're an athlete.

That's why I give you that example. But Curt Warner only stocked shells because he had to feed the baby and his wife.

But he did it so that he could stay in the Arena Football League. And for you right now, for you to get in this work,

you need to be working, bringing home income, not becoming depressed because that's what happens. You get depressed pretty quick, get frustrated, and you create this false narrative which will hold you back. So, the best thing you can do right now is go get a J O so that

I'm getting up every day, taking a shower, shaving, and working and bringing home a check while I'm using Ken's proximity principle and repeating the process that worked four times. And the more, let's say it's eight interviews or 12, you're going to start to see a yes. All of those nos lead to a yes. And I I wish I had some silver bullet, but it's a law of numbers, but the right numbers.

Yeah, hang on. We'll get you a copy of Proximity Principle and Ken's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. Both will help you in this process. They'll be our gift to you to help you get moving.

I know you're frustrated, man. And it does sound like you're doing a lot of things right. >> Yeah. >> But you're also wasting a lot of burn calories to feel like you're doing something right and some other things.

So, let's reign some of the efforts the way Ken's teaching and I think you'll see some better results.

My goodness, that's frustrating as crud.

All right, Jessica is in Dallas. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

Hey, I'm good. How are you all?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Well, thanks for taking my call. I have a question about emergency funds versus

syncing funds. Um, so my husband and I,

we learned about you, Dave, in 2020. Uh,

paid off all of our debt except for our mortgage. And each month, you know, I'm using every dollar to designate money into different funds. Um, with our house

syncing funds, I'm just wondering if I'm using it incorrectly. I'm getting a little nervous as our house gets older.

We're going to need major things like new windows. And I feel like the house fund never really grows because of course something always comes up. We need a new water heater, a roof. And so it just seems like every year we're getting money in that fund and every year I need to take some out. And I'm just thinking, you know, years a few years down the line, what if we need to spend $30,000 on new windows? Um

>> well, you need a plan to do you need a plan to do that? That's not an emergency. That's a no, that's a known thing.

>> Well, I'm >> That means your sinking fund is underfunded.

>> Okay. But I don't know that you need to necessarily be funding something for 25 years from today in there. But if you if you think in three years you're going to need windows and it's 30,000 bucks, you probably ought to start now.

>> Well, I'm just thinking I would already have the 30,000 if I didn't take money out of the house fund for repairs. And >> what are you going to repair the house with if you don't?

>> Okay. >> You have to repair the house and fix the windows. Both.

>> Okay. >> And neither one are an emergency. Both are predictable events.

>> Okay. So, I just need >> you maybe need a new sinking fund for windows.

>> Yeah, that's true.

>> And start start because since it's worrying you and keeping you up at night, I don't know. But um you know what what seriously what do you think the time horizon is on that? When do you think you're going to need them?

>> I mean, honestly, we could use them now, but I it's not an emergency for us to use them now. You you know, we we do what we can when it gets cold here. It's not sold in Dallas for very long, but um

but I mean it's it's coming down the line and I I know it's a big cost.

>> So, put put a number on it and put a date on it and back into it and save for it. >> Okay. >> Go get a bid or three and say, "Okay, 36,000 bucks in 36 months. That'd be a,000 bucks a month.

Hello." >> Sure. Yeah. put put a number on it and put a date on it and you can tell what your sinking fund needs to look like and because you got to do the other home repairs anyway and you can't wait and call this an emergency because you knew it was coming. It's like saying, "Oh, my tires are bald.

That's an emergency." No, you knew your dad gum tires were going to wear out. You should have been planning to replace your tires already. >> Too close to home, Dave.

She was looking at my tire treads about 6 months ago. She goes, "You're an idiot. You're literally like taking your life in your own hands. I didn't I never pay attention to stuff like that." And sure enough, she was right. >> I'm glad. >> Thankfully, we had the money for the tires. >> I'm glad. >> By the way, windows in Dallas, if it's a little chilly, I'm getting some duct tape. We're going to stretch this a little bit. >> I'm kidding. >> She may live in a $2 million house, man.

I don't know what she lives in.

>> I wasn't serious. The duct tape.

You can't fix everything in duct tape.

You can try, but you can't fix everything.

I don't know.

Heat. Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality, host of the Ramsey Network hit Front Row Seat is my co-host today. Open Phones

here at88255225.

If you go to ramseyolutions.com/livevents, you can join us this evening. We'll be doing a live stream that is completely

free to help you get back control of your money, take back control of your money in 2026. And we'd love to have you

guys join us. There'll be several hundred,000 people there. We'll be giving away $20,000 tonight on that live stream. So, make sure you sign up for the live stream and that puts you automatically in the drawing. The whole deal is free. We'd love to have you hang out. Jade and I will be doing that. So, Jade Washer and I. So, make sure you join us. Jennifer is with us in Nashville. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

I am so excited to talk to you.

>> You too. >> Here's my question.

>> Okay. So, I'm hoping to retire in 2032.

I'm debtree with the exception of my house, which I still owe 280,000 on at a

2.25 interest rate. My question is, what

should I be prioritizing during my last six years of employment? I would like to pri prioritize paying off my house. and if I put all my energy and money towards paying it off, I could do it before I retire, but it would be at the expense of contributing to my 401k.

But others say that since my interest rate is so low, I really need to be putting all my money in my 401k.

And so, but that means I'd have to take a house payment into retirement and that scares the crap out of me. So, I kind of wanted to know I think I know what you're going to say, but I just wanted to know what you thought.

>> What's your household income?

Uh, I make 162,000.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. And so you have six years, right?

>> Six years. >> Yeah. >> And I'll have two federal pensions when I retire, which are about 75,000 a year.

And then if social security is still around, like another 30.

>> Yeah. So 6* 4

is 240. Right.

>> Right. >> Yeah. So 6 * 45,000 out of 160 gets your

house paid off, which leaves you 120. Why can you not keep doing retirement also?

>> Um, oh, I I could. You mean take my house payment into retirement?

>> No, darling. $45,000 a year $45,000 a

year from today for the next six years pays off a $280,000 house. 45,000 extra

on the house.

Okay.

>> Yes. >> All right. Now, you make 160,

right?

>> Right. >> Minus 45 leaves you 115, >> right? >> Okay. You could still do retirement and still live.

>> Yeah. I mean it's I know 162,000 it is a

lot of money but you know you got to take out there's a lot of stuff in there also when you take off take out taxes

and um and just everything else that

goes with it. >> What what's everything else?

>> Tithing. Well, okay. So you have taxes which is like 30 some thousand tithing.

My current house payment which is 30 grand. >> Your what? Your what?

>> What' you say? What? >> Your what payment? >> I said my current house now. >> Okay. Well, no, that would include include your house payment because basically I mean $45,000 is more than enough house payment and everything to pay off the house. You don't pay $30,000

a year on your house, do you?

>> Well, I mean, I when I think of that, I throw in all of my taxes and insurance.

That's what I >> I roll into my house payment. That's how I think about it. I see. Yeah, you're right. That's true. Okay.

>> Okay. I just It feels like that you can that you don't have to completely choose. >> It feels like you can get the house paid off and still do something towards retirement.

You may have to cut somewhere. You may have to scrimp somewhere else to hit this goal. I don't know. And I don't know what all is coming out of your check. You may want to look at that.

But, um, you may be thinking about coming home after 401k contributions.

And that's that's you know that's not what we're talking still that's part of the hole. See so if you kept doing your 401k and then it's pinchy to do the house but you could still do 45 total on the house uh in principal reduction a

year not counting interest and taxes and

insurance right but yeah if you did that that would get you there. Um so it's close. Uh what's the probability over the next six years of your income changing?

Well, so it won't go up much. It will continue to grow. I do the other thing is I um I do own a fourth of a farm.

It's in an irrevocable trust now and so

that's vested. Um but you know, I'm not sure when we're going to sell that. Uh you'd never want to say it like that because it means one of my parents has passed. Um, but so there will be about a

half million dollar, you know, income coming in at some point in my >> And how much is in your uh nest egg now?

>> So right now 30,000.

>> Oh, and then my 401k is 480.

>> That's your nest egg. Okay. I knew something was off. >> I'm sorry. >> Can I can I ask a real simple question?

What do you What do you do for the government? What what is your job? How would you describe yourself as a professional?

Uh, as an attorney, I specialize in labor law. >> Oh, good for you. >> And your work for the government?

>> I do. >> Does that preclude you from doing uh u side work?

>> No. >> Okay, here's the exercise. Okay, here's the exercise I would go through. I think Dave's right, >> but I also think you know your budget pretty darn good. So, if it was me, I would not be asking the question, uh, do I sacrifice retirement investing in order to pay this house off? I would be asking the question, how much additional money do I need to make per year over

the next six years to pay this house off? You are an attorney. I know you can

make that money.

>> Yeah. If you made an extra 40 grand a year, this is soft. >> That's one thing to do. You know, it's just a little side thing of some some kind of a side, I don't know, venture or whatever.

Here's the thing. You're going to be okay either way. You're fine. Uh I would pay off the house early.

I I would put the house on a schedule to be done in six years and then I would squeeze what I can out of retirement from working extra and or out of your budget by carefully looking at it. All the things we've talked about because here's the deal.

In six in seven years that'll be if it's in good mutual funds uh that'll double that'll be a million. And then the house is worth what today?

>> Uh 700 something. >> Okay. So it'll probably be worth a million and a half in seven years give or take. Okay. And so at that point, you're going to be worth $2.5 million.

And the farm is another half million.

And that's six years from today. And you'll be how old at that point?

>> Uh I will be 62.

>> Okay. >> And about what? 70,000 in retirement

coming to you from the pension plus social security, right?

>> Yeah. So 100,000 if everything stays the way it is now.

>> Okay. So you're at 100. So you're so you're you're definitely okay if you add nothing to retirement >> and pay off the house over the next 6 years to answer your question now that we dug all the way through this. Okay, but it it took a minute to get there.

But that's exactly you are okay to do all that. I however am like you. I want to be doing something further towards retirement and so I want to investigate these other two possibilities adding some income and or squeezing this budget. But I'm just going to sit down and go, $45,000 a year has got to go on principal. >> Mhm. >> And that comes out of the budget. 6 years I'm done. And you're going to be okay. And make sure your other stuff's invested right in good mutual funds.

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Make sure your home's a blessing and not a burden. Go to Ramsey Trusted Real Estate. You can find one for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent or click the notes in the or click the link in the show notes. Brittany is in Grand Rapids.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I have just a question. I was curious what your thoughts were on if it's a bad idea to pay for our daughter

to go to private school while we are still trying to get out of debt. Um, yeah.

>> Okay. Well, there's a that's a loaded question and there's a lot of answers to it. >> Um, and so it the answer is it depends.

Uh, number one, I would not strain my family budget to where I couldn't breathe in any case.

>> Okay. To do that, >> um, I would not spend $46,000 a year for a four-year-old to go to a private school. >> Um, and sometimes I get that call. So, what is yours?

>> Yeah. So, we are in the process of paying off debt. >> Now, what is your private school cost?

>> It's not that much. Um, we're going between two. The cheaper one is 1,035

for the year. The other one is like 1,400 for the year.

>> I'm so sorry. This is not a school. This is a daycare, right?

>> Nope. It's preschool.

>> $1,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> And she goes every day.

>> No. Um, so at four years old, they don't do it's only like one of them is two days a week and the other one's three days a week and they're half days.

>> Okay, Donna. This is called Mother's Day Out.

>> This is not called private school.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Or run from any school that only charges you $1,000 a year.

>> Well, I mean, they're not it's not a school. This is your kids going over two days a week while you go grocery shopping for God's sakes.

>> Okay. So, if but if you're going to do Mother's Day out, >> um and that's okay. I mean, private, they don't have a public version of that. >> So, private is your only option. And um

what's your household income?

>> Um it's kind of complicated. So I bring

home about 2200 to 2,300 a month. Um my

husband on the low end brings home 2,800 a month, but it could go up to 5,000 a

month >> when >> um so he manages a snow removal company.

So, like right now he's bringing home a few thousand a month. Um, and then he does landscaping in the summer. So, it just kind of depends um if he's working overtime or not.

>> Okay. And you're in baby step two,

>> correct? >> What's your debt? How much?

>> Yeah, we have a total of 303,000.

>> Hello. What does that consist of?

>> Yeah, 277,000 is left on the mortgage. >> Oh, okay. We have 9700 left on my car.

Um 4600 left on my student loans and

then 11,000 left on his student loan.

>> So shouldn't he be doing uh overtime now?

>> Yes. Lots of overtime.

>> Is he?

>> Yes. Yep. He's working the last like average was anywhere from 95 to 110

hours a week. So >> And he's only bringing 2,800 home.

That's when he gets 5,000.

Yeah. No, he actually like last month I think he brought home closer to 8,000.

>> Okay, that makes more sense. All right, I got it. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I just filled our budget off of the low end. That way there's no like surprises. So that are you working in

the home?

>> Uh no, I'm a nurse.

>> So who keeps your child while you work?

>> Yeah. So we pay somebody to watch the kiddos three days a week.

Oh, and this other thing is the second or the the other two days a week.

>> Yeah. So, starting in the fall, our daughter is of preschool age. And so, we were just trying to figure out I see >> whether it was a bad idea to pay for her

to go to a private >> if she does if she's there, does that reduce your cost of the babysitter in the house?

>> No, it does not because it would be Tuesday, Thursday, and those are the days that I'm home. Oh, well, I wouldn't do it. I I've heard enough for me. If it was my personal income in this situation, I would not be paying that money. No, >> not in baby step two. Dave, am I right or wrong? >> I I don't have a problem either. It's It's probably not a deal breaker either way, but um yeah, I I Your daughter's

already gone from home uh as a

four-year-old while you're at work the other days. And then you're at home and you're going to send her away from home, too. uh into preschool. I you know I

don't think this well I

uh I'm gonna catch I'm already catching hell. Okay. The um

um having raised three that became successful um the things that they learned when they were in preschool did not enter into it them becoming successful. It's not that

big a deal. Okay. And so, um, you know,

uh, you can make it. You can make it.

And so, >> and the differences for some of the rest of you in one, uh, grade one through six, one school

versus another, assuming the school is not just an absolute hell hole that's dangerous and teaches nothing. Uh but if

you've got a reasonably good elementary school, the differences in that and the one that's $100,000 a year is it's not worth the the bang. You know, it's not worth the cost. So, and the the differences in whether those kids become successful is not based on where they went to elementary school, and it's sure not based on where they went to Mother's Day out. And so, um no, I'm not going to

do it on that basis. The child is not going to be held back. She's not a developmental delay because of this or

educational deficit because of this.

>> And I and I I'll kind of fill in the last piece that I'm hearing here, Britney, u because I'm not that far removed from my wife working full-time and we had three kids. So, as a nurse, and I know that nursing, many of the nursing positions are very, very intense. So, if you're asking this from a, hey, on those two days when I'm off, I need a little me time. I think that's that's fine.

But I would again I would employ the person who's watching the child on the other days for maybe a portion of it.

Uh if that's something that is part of this decision, I think that makes sense and it's healthy. Uh but I can also say

as a guy who sent off his oldest to college last year, I got another one leaving the nest. This goes fast. And the old saying that the you know the days are long and the years are short are really really true. And if you can,

you know, still be healthy, uh, having that time with her before she heads off to elementary school, man, it's going to be here before you know it. I would maximize that. That's just me. No wrong decision here, but maybe some food for thought. >> Yeah. So, the bottom line of all of that, Britney, is it doesn't matter. You do what you want to. That's right. >> Um, I mean, you're not going to you're not going to mess up your kid either way, and you're really not going to destroy your debt snowball either way.

Um, so but what we don't want to do during and I don't think this falls in that category or we would sell you because we're pretty mean about it. Um, it what we don't want to do when we're in baby step is buy luxury items.

>> Yeah. >> Things that aren't needed. And this is kind of on the bubble. But um, >> and you know what bothers me about it is the way you phrased it honestly.

>> Start the whole thing off like this is a private school discussion and it's a two-day a week Mother's Day drop off.

So, you know, it's not it's not like we're having a decision decision between Harvard and and you know, the University of Mississippi. That's not what we're looking at here. Okay. So, I felt that, too. And this is not in any way a slight on you, Britney, but it you know what? Sometimes we make decisions like this because everyone else is doing it.

>> I'm not saying that's the case, but it can it a lot of times we talk ourselves into things that make sense because other people are doing it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's

Yeah. And it's a bubble. I mean, what who you run around with? And all your kids, all your buddies got a four-year-old and they're old one to air quotes private school. >> I'll bet you the school she's thinking about has got some nice shine to it.

>> Air >> guaranteed >> some air quotes. >> It's the hot place to send the kiddos in their zip code. I'll bet you >> I could be wrong.

>> It's happened before. Dave >> struggling with prestige out of a four-year-old.

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Carly's in West Virginia. Hey Carly, what's up? >> Hi Dave. Hi Ken. Happy to be talking to you. Thanks for taking my question.

>> Sure. >> Uh my question is about life insurance.

So my husband and I know we need more

life insurance. Uh but we're trying to figure out how to do that. So right now through a company sponsored plan um we

have a term life policy that is seven times my income and five times his

>> that you pay for or they give >> well yes I pay 40 we pay $45 a month for

it. >> Okay. All right. >> And so I'm trying to determine to fill

that gap to the 10 to 12.

>> Yeah. And because this is, you know, through my employer, >> should I be looking should we be looking for a private policy? Yes.

>> For the full 10 to 12, >> I probably would. And let me talk you through why. Okay. There's a couple of variables. >> Yeah. Just go to like Xander insurance.com. They've been with us for 35 years almost, and they'll shop a bazillion companies, get you the best price for what you're paying. I'm going to guess and say you might be able to get that privately. I don't think you're getting that great a deal. That's thing one. Okay. Thing two is when you leave

your company, and you will.

>> Yep. >> Okay. You'll get fired. >> That's my concern. Like if I, you know, >> if you had a uh diabetes diagnosis

and a year later left the company, you can't get insurance.

>> Yeah. >> And cuz these insurance policies are not portable. They don't go with you. And so

you can get trapped with a negative diagnosis and then an exit and not have insurance. And that's always bothers me.

So I I look at um I want to have the

biscuit, the the meat of the thing, so to speak, the main piece be my private

insurance through Xander. And then if I've got some through work, that's if it's a good deal when you flesh it out and you want to keep it. It's kind of the gravy on the biscuit. It's a little extra.

>> Okay. >> But because good news, it doesn't cost much. But I don't I don't know that that

policy is that great a deal. How old are you guys? >> I am 32 and my husband's 27.

>> Okay.

And what do you what are your incomes?

>> Um I'm at 160 and he's about 80

>> and we have one child who's uh almost two. >> Okay. Are are either one of you overweight or smoke?

>> No. >> Okay. Uh well, you got a good amount of

insurance because your income's higher than I was guessing. Okay. So, uh you got good incomes. Congratulations.

Um, yeah, I don't know. You just run the numbers against it. You'll either keep it as as semi-supplemental. So, in other

words, I might do if it's a great deal and you want to keep it instead of doing 10 to 12 with Xander, I might do six to eight with Xander. Right.

>> Okay. >> And just say, okay, it's a little it's a little bit supplemental and it's a little bit there, but if I leave, I'm not stuck that way. And it's not the base. It's not the foundation of my insurance plan. It's just part of the plan because when you count on employer life insurance only, you can really get stung based on what I was just telling you. >> And Dave was using gravy and a biscuit as metaphor. If you want a good life insurance rate, stay away from the biscuits and the gravy.

>> Ken, thank you.

>> Dave, just I got to bring some practicality every once in a while to what you say. You're not plain enough.

You're not clear enough. >> It's true. Cuz you know, if you eat enough biscuits and gravy, you'll have to have a biscuit ectomy. >> While you were doing that, Biscuit ectomy. >> Oh, I love a good that'll screw up your insurance rates.

>> Biscuit ectoies.

>> If if that's on your medical record, it's a problem. >> There it is. >> Larry's in Florida. Hey, Larry.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Got a see if I'm the um the exception to Dave's rule of borrowing money. And and here's the deal. I'll give you a quick scenario. 73. I watch the 70. We're

snowbirds. Uh we have 1.4 in liquid

assets, 50,000 of it. Sorry, 1.4 that's

in pre-tax and then another 50 that's emergency fund. Everything's paid off up north. Um we live in Michigan. House is worth about 275 up there. That's paid off. So we the condo that we've been staying in in Florida for the last five or six years, a perfect one for us, has come up for sale. And uh I can actually

close on it this week, tomorrow, today, whatever. And um I'm looking at my

question to you is do do you think it's wise to pull out 300 the condos 360 pull

out that entire amount out of the pre-tax? And of course, that would incur a 20% >> Yes. >> tax as well. >> Absolutely. >> You think that's a smart way to >> It's not a 20% tax. It's tax on 360.

It's an in ordinary income tax rate on 360, >> but yeah, I definitely would pay taxes on it. It's not 20% is the withholding on it, but that that's not accurate.

>> So, yeah, I Yes, I definitely that's why you've saved this money. You don't want to go be 73 years old and have a beach condo with a stupid payment on it.

>> No. No, I wouldn't do that. I definitely wouldn't do that. I'd pay cash or I wouldn't buy it. Of course, the other question is, are you going to keep the place up north? If you are, then let's slow down a little bit on the purchase and get the other place sold and roll that 275 into it. Um, because there's no

tax on that. Uh, but if you're keeping the house up and you're still going to snowbird it, then that up north and that's cool. No problem. I just take it out of that. Yeah. So, you got a million dollars left in your 401k and you got,

you know, a million dollar in real estate now. Okay. Oh, darn. I hate it when that happens. Well done. No, I'm not paying Yes, I'm going to pay some taxes to not have any debt. Absolutely.

That's why why we got here and how we got here. Spencer's in Wisconsin. Hey, Spencer.

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Hey. Um, I'm 28 years old and I have uh

$750,000 of debt.

And I have no debt on any cars or

anything like that. That's my home mortgage. And then I'm a farmer. I bought a chunk of land. So,

Okay. So, how much is your house? How much is the debt on your home?

>> Um, there's about 350,000 left on that.

>> Okay. And so, you got about uh what? 450

on the land.

>> 400 on land. Yep.

>> 400 on land, I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. And you're a full-time farmer. That's what you do for a living, >> correct? Yep. With my dad and my grandpa. >> Okay.

And um that's your only debt. You don't have any equipment debt?

>> No, no equipment debt or anything.

>> What are you far What do you What do you What are you farming? >> Um corn, soybeans, and wheat. We're cash crop farmers, and then we do a lot of trucking, too. >> Good. So, what do you make in a year?

>> Um I personally make about $80,000 of

impersonal income.

>> And then, uh this year we made about

$30,000 from the farm. That should make the payments for the next year.

>> How many acres How many acres was the 400? It only yielded $30,000 worth of profit. >> Well, no, 30,000 of profit.

>> Yeah. 50,000.

>> It was about uh it's 76 acres of

workable land and it yielded about 200

bushels to the acre.

>> Wow. >> And corn is about $4. about pretty bad price this year, but that's just how it goes. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. On a good year, I'm curious. On a good year, uh, with corn prices, what would that number be or what has it been? What's the best year that you can recall?

>> Um, the best year is probably that I can remember, I'm only 28, so but we had a during CO there, we had about $7 a bushel.

>> Wow. >> For corn. >> Wow.

So, but what would that make you on that? 78 acres or 76 acres.

>> Um 76 * 200.

>> That'd be about a 100,000 or something.

>> Okay. All right. >> Almost double. >> Yeah. Okay. Or more than double. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Because you got Listen.

Yeah. You're just trying to get a return on investment. It's a business transaction. There's a lot of romance in farm and an extreme amount of hard work in farming. But people romantically forget to do the math because you don't want to make 30,000 on a $400,000 investment and do all the hard work means you're making a dollar an hour of very backbreaking labor. That's a bad rate of return on your money. So, um,

but if that's not the average year, then we have to work into that and see. So, and and if you're getting it paid off by doing that, you end up with the asset clear. That's another part to enter into the equation. So, I think you can struggle through this and get there.

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Our

scripture of the day, Ephesians 6:11.

Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

Rebea McIntyre said, "Be different.

Stand out and work your butt off." Well, Sounds good, Reeba. I like that. All right, Cam is in Chicago. Hey, Cam. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Well, my son is going to come into a settlement um when he turns 18 in April,

and it's $70,000, and I'm looking for advice on what he should do with it. He wants to buy a new car, but he's also going to be signing up. He's going to sign up for the Marines in uh about October.

>> So, he's only going to be here a short time before he goes away to boot camp. So, trying to figure out what the right decision is for him. >> Yeah. Okay. And how old is he?

>> He's 17. He'll be 18 in April and that's when he'll get the settlement. >> Okay. What's the settlement from?

>> Um he was um hit by a car when he was on his bicycle. >> Wow. Is he okay?

>> He's okay. Yeah. It's been just about a year. So, he's he's fully recovered and

it's um you know, been in an account in the bank um until he turns 18. So, he's anxiously awaiting it to buy himself a car cuz right now he's sharing with with mom. >> Okay. So, you're a single mom?

>> I'm a single mom. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um and he doesn't have

a car and he's 17. It's in the bank,

>> right? >> Is there any reason he can't buy a car with it now if you let him?

because it he can't it's not to be touched until he's 18. I mean, we can go and petition the judge for it.

>> Oh, okay. But that'd be the only way.

Okay. All right. >> But it's the only way, right?

>> Okay. All right. You're a good mom. Um

Well, here's the thing. you and I know he's getting ready to park the car. And if I'm if he's a normal 17-year-old uh

American male, he wants a really nice car uh that's way too expensive and he's about to screw up, right?

>> He wants a Honda Civic.

>> Okay. But how new

>> that he's he's open-ended on. But

>> I'm thinking I'm thinking5 to $10,000.

>> Okay. That's what I was thinking as well. >> Okay. And if it parks and sits there and rots down, his life does not end. But if

he goes and blows 70 grand on a car, I'm gonna kill him.

>> Oh, no. That would never happen.

>> Well, I don't know. He's 18 and it's his money. And you know, only you and I can talk him out of it. Right. So, >> because I guarantee he's got some people telling him to do that, don't you?

>> I'm afraid of that. >> Yeah. They're called stupid friends. We all have them. >> Right. Right.

>> Especially when you're 17. You have them. There's lots of them around when you're 17. Right.

>> Yeah. So, I'm glad that you have the influence with him that you hope you do and you think you do, and I hope you can >> talk him out of the tree on this because I Yeah, it sounds like you are. It sounds like you got a good foothold on on persuading him.

>> That's what I'm hoping. And with that rest of that money, do you think he should, you know, put it in a high yield savings or >> That would be fine. That would be fine.

If you want to put it away even longer, you could sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and park some of it in some mutual funds, but don't plan on touching it for 5 years if you do that. You can, but I wouldn't. But if you could, that would be ideal. Just forget you have it.

>> It would be ideal, right?

>> Put it in a mutual fund and forget you have it and look up at 24 marrying your

sweetheart and the 50 has turned into

150 and you can use it for a down payment on a house.

That's what that's what my hopes are for him. >> That that's what I would do with it if it was mine. >> Yeah. You know, I'm sitting here thinking, what would I do if I were you?

>> I would show him that example.

>> I would I'm just This is what I do to my kids. It drives them crazy, but I'm a question guy by trade. I would ask him,

uh, so what was involved with a brand new Marine who goes off and got a car?

Start asking a million questions. Now, just asking the questions will irritate him, which is great because what you want to do is is a mild irritation to make him think through, is this thing more trouble? Because you and Dave are talking and you're like, "Oh, he's going to park it." But he's not thinking that.

I would, and I'm playing when I say irritate. I don't mean really provoke the kid. I just mean make him consider what is he going to do with this car?

And if he's parking it where where you live, make him confront that. uh if he's got to take it with him and ship it or whatever. I would just walk make him walk through all of that and you might be able to deter this by not suggesting

but by asking. I would try it >> cuz I'm with you. I would rather >> it's okay to not buy a car. That's what I'm getting if you're going straight into boot camp. That'd be okay.

>> Yeah, >> it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I was just trying to scratch his itch.

>> And if I scratch it with five grand and keep him from blowing 70, I'm on target, you know. So >> yeah. What did you say? You tried it.

>> I tried to tell him it's not necessary.

we can still share. He's got a 15-year-old brother and his point and that'll be 16 when he goes in the Marines. And he said, "Well, then he can just use it when I'm gone cuz he thinks

that it's a burden for me to have to drive them all around everywhere since it's just me." And he's like, "Then he can help you out." >> Well, here's the deal. I did a quick search while Dave was talking to you. There are some decent uh Honda Civics in

that $5 to $7,000 range. So, if you can

help him stay in that range, then I think that scratches his itch, but also keeps his money where it needs to be.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then talk but sell the dream of what happens to the other >> Yeah. >> 60,000 bucks that's going to turn into 160 for a good down payment when he's 24

or whatever the numbers end up being.

But I mean, this is this is the mature thing to do with it, which is very hard to do when you're >> immature. when you're not when you're not old, you know. So, it's hard to do

when you're old, but it's not as hard when you're old as it was when you were Christian. Kristen Kristen is next in

San Jose. Hey, Kristen. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, I have a question about purchasing a house versus remodeling.

Um, we've been planning a remodel for the past year. um and just found out from kind of a couple of contractors that now at this point the remodel is going to be double what we want to pay which means we'd be way over building for our neighborhood. The same time I'm finding this out from contractors. My dad has decided to move from Southern California up to be closer to us because my mom has passed in this past year. Um, and he just want we're kind of his last closest family um, in the area. And so

we are now considering instead to sell his house, our house, and purchase a new house with an ADU. So that way he can kind of live on the property with us.

Um, this would involve all me, my husband, and my dad's name means all being on um the mortgage and the title

to the home. And I'm just looking for some advice to see if that is a good idea. Um, we would be putting like over 50% down for the price of the home and it would be within our like budget even

according to the Ramsay way of deciding for a budget for a house. Um, and so I just want to know if that is a good idea or not. >> Well, there's a lot of downside to it.

Um because you what you have to do is work through what happens in the event of all the negative possibilities.

Okay. Um a negative relationship evolves. Um that's the problem. Okay. Uh

a death evolves. What happens to the half out of the house then? Um what happens to the half uh if he becomes

disabled early onset? What happens uh if

uh you know something bizarre happened and you all got a divorce? Okay, so you

know all the no one ever no one ever anticipates all the negative things and the exit strategy from this brilliant idea in the event of all the negative things. We always just look at oh this is going to work and we can put our money together and we got a better house and yeah. So, if you work through all of those probably on paper as a part of a

quote partnership agreement unquote, you got siblings.

>> No, I'm an only child. >> Okay. That's that makes it simpler, doesn't it? You're going to get his half when he dies, right?

>> Yes. And he has been very clear that he he's like, "The house is already yours.

Do what you want with it." Um, he just wants to move closer to us in general.

And he is elderly. So I do think that how old is he we would be taking um in his like mid70s.

>> Okay. >> Maybe not in the best of health like you are but yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean just be

careful. It's just be thinking about what happens with um you know and and

really have some good documentation on power of attorney and other stuff in case of like you know the one that comes to mind is I've got a friend dealing with early onset right now and they've got a problem with the ownership of the family business and the guy that holds the keys is not all there now. So they got a real issue and that's the kind of stuff you got to be real careful with and and be thinking that through. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 245. Yesterday’s Choices Don’t Define You - Change Starts Today! | September 23, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:58 |

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[Music]

normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Studio Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we take your questions at 888255225.

Sarah is in Alabama. Hi Sarah, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so my fiance and I have been together for 13 years off and on. We have two daughters, five and 10. And a

year ago or two years ago, we uprooted and moved to his hometown in the middle of nowhere, Alabama.

Um, we bought a home. We have since had

a house fire a year later and right now

we're renting. Um, we decided that we

were going to get married at the beginning of next year in March. And we

decided that at the beginning of this year, >> right? Slow down, pump the brakes.

>> But uh well, he he got rebapti he got

baptized for the first time. He has always been a a complete non-believer.

Oh >> was against it. >> And after the fire, he got baptized. I got saved again. Uh my daughter's been saved again. And it was definitely something that as a family we were moving towards in the holy trying to live life right in God's eyes.

>> And so the fire was kind of the catalyst for all of you. Is that what you're saying? >> Oh, absolutely. And we're all still on

that page. We're devout in Bible study and church and all that good stuff, but we just realized that we're not going to be able to afford the wedding. And there

have been other things, infidelities, stuff like that that has happened throughout our past, trauma that's just kind of carried over.

>> And in counseling,

>> we have not uh we've talked about it plenty of times. And honestly, where we're at right now, there's not very many resources >> involved in our church. There are not very mental health re not very many mental health resources. I come from >> they're in the middle of nowhere, Alabama. >> Okay. So, okay. Well, there are I mean there are really great online >> Yeah. like Better Help. Like Better Help. Those guys. >> Uh so, um Okay, let's play pretend for a second.

Um >> are are you you've been doing this a long time?

>> Yes. >> You have two kids that if we keep this up much more, they're going to be in college, >> right? >> I mean, this is just going on a long time. um your uh spiritual awakening is wonderful that you met God and I want to I want to start living by the book. And um so the ship has sailed on

little 18-year-old Sarah walking down the aisle in an expensive wedding in a white dress.

That was like a decade ago.

It's gone.

So go get married like today,

tomorrow.

>> What if everything isn't where it should be? >> You've been going this long. >> You've been going this long. You know where everything what what what is not in the right place?

My god. I mean, if it should if it's not where it should be, you should have been gone like 5 years ago. >> Yeah. And Sarah, with the life changes that you guys are making, I'd like to think that the worst is behind you guys and that you're going to start going in another direction.

And to Dave's point, yeah, today or next week when you get married and you go down to the courthouse and you just fill out the papers and legalize it for all of your benefit, there could be a day in the future where you renew your vows and you do the white dress and you walk down the aisle and you do that big party that you wanted. But just because that's not going to be today or next week when you get married, doesn't mean it can't happen ever. I I just want to break this idea that you need to save up for a big wedding.

It's like that was a decade ago. >> Just go get married.

>> Then why do you need money for a wedding? >> Then you don't need money for a wedding.

>> I mean, >> just go down the call your preacher and say, "Can you marry us?" And he'll say, "Yes, we met God. We met God and we know that now we need to be married in order to sleep together and so we're going to get married. Will you marry us?

We want to be right. We want to do this right. And uh preacher is going to say yes. And then you go get your license and you go get married.

>> And if it makes you feel any better, this is a small technicality, but it it could make you feel better. Um you know, you go everybody gets married and gets the license before they walk down the aisle in the dress. Everybody. Cuz you have to have that first and you that the legal part's done first anyway.

But everybody gets the certificate first. >> Yeah. have a celebration. But I mean, you guys have been doing this for 13 freaking years. I mean, this is not it's not like um yeah, it's it's that's in

the rearview mirror. But it it the the only question I've got is you do want to make sure that you're saying, "Okay, now that we're in this headsp space of we're walking with God now and both of us are there and we've been through the trauma of a house fire, which is very traumatic, >> uh, now that we've done all that, I'm looking in the eyes of my two kids that the two of you made together >> and you're going, "Okay, is there anything that's so broken here that we can't work through it?" because to me it's almost as if you've been married 13 years and you're calling me asking me if you need to get a divorce >> and I didn't hear anything in this discussion that called for that.

>> That's a good way to look at it, Dave. >> And so um you know the only question is now we're formalizing this because we have a better spiritual understanding of how life works and we're going to plug into that and you're just going to formalize it and and here's what's then what you're saying is for better for worse baby. >> Yep. Yeah, >> it does hit different though when you put that when you put the ring on it because then there's no there's no escape valve.

You know what I mean? But they do need to do premarital counseling even though they've been together 13 years >> or just go do marital counseling marital you get married. Go, you know, okay, we got to we kind of ought to dig through this toy box a little bit and see what's going on here.

sure we've got that kind of stuff cleared out because I mean it's like we were with some friends this weekend been married 50 years. We've been married 43 years. Wow. >> That's how old we are. We had to shoot dinosaurs out of the yard to get married. And so, um, you know what? They

were laughing. I said, Sharon, they said, "What's the secret?" And Sharon said, "David says if I leave, he's going

with me." >> Oh, >> there you go. >> And that's the secret right there. >> You're not getting away. >> That's about how it sounded, too. She dropped into that southern hillbilly mountain twang and went all down in it.

I'm just saying. But yeah. >> Wow. >> That's great. That's the truth. I told her it's an old Zig Ziggler line. I've been telling her for years. I said, "If you leave, I'm going with you." So, just, you know, go ahead and pack both suitcases cuz I'll be following you right along. >> Wow. >> Cuz otherwise, I'll go hungry.

>> It's not good, you know. So, >> Oh, that's great. >> Hey, kiddo. I'm proud for where you guys are and I'm proud for where you're going. The best is in front of you. The worst is behind you.

>> Uh, you start walking with Jesus and both of you do that. You'll learn things that you never learned before. You'll see things you've never seen before.

>> And and um it won't be without its problems. It won't be without bumps in the road, but you will get there. And um you're setting those kids up for a much better life. You're setting yourselves up for a much better life. And I'm proud for where you're going. >> Three most important decisions I ever made. Number one, following Jesus.

Number two, who I married, Sam Warshaw.

Number three, choosing to get on a plan for money and get out of debt and build wealth. Three most important.

>> There we go. Boom. Big list. Big list.

Heat. Heat. N. [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Michael is in Canada. Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> I'm fantastic. I always told myself if I ever got through, I'd have to hear you say it. So, how you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve.

>> That's fantastic. Uh Jade, I actually asked you this question on IG live a couple uh months ago, and you wanted more details. You wanted the numbers for it. So, uh my wife and I are both 38. Uh today's actually my birthday. We are on baby steps 45, five, and six, and we own

uh two properties. Our primary house uh which is valued about 650 and we owe 265 on it. And then we have a cabin recreational property that we bought for 325. It's worth about 425 and we owe

about 214 on it. Now in Canada, we have

these weird mortgages where uh they advertise over 15, 20 or 25 years, but the interest rate comes up for renewal every 5 years.

>> So the cabin is coming up in the spring

uh where we're going to renew that which gives me the opportunity if I wanted to to take equity out of the cabin and then I could transfer uh that equity into our primary residence. this would just help us pay off our house sooner. Uh maybe provide us with that financial piece a little bit earlier of owning our own home. Uh and I was curious what your opinions were on that. >> Do the interest rates compare?

>> Uh yeah. So actually the house is a little bit more. The house is at 4.5.

Right now it's looking like the cabin would renew around 3.9. So about a half% difference. >> So they treat your cabin as a personal residence in terms of interest rate.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz in the states, your your your second homes and rental properties have a higher interest rate.

>> Yeah. Here, we can still take advantage of the same mortgage rates. >> Okay. >> Uh again, we just get stuck with this thing every 5 years, so it can vary more. >> So, your idea is to take out a heliloc on the cabin. >> No, it's just extra do a cash out refinance.

>> Yeah. So, we can do Okay. Not a heloc.

They're going to redo the mortgage.

reset the mortgage and take another 200 out I guess or so, right?

>> Yeah. Be about 100 probably I could get out of the cabin. Uh we'd have to leave 25% in there.

>> What's your household income?

>> About 240.

>> Okay. So if you owe 165 on your house because you move 100 over to the cabin, how fast do you pay that off?

>> Well, so right now I'm forecasted about five years out. So I'm thinking this would probably speed up to about three.

Um, that's really where our focus is is paying off our house and then we'd move to the cabin after that. So, um, they would move up that goal of paying off the house, but overall paying off the house and the cabin. I'm still looking in probably the same time frame of maybe closer to eight years. >> Yeah, that sounds right. >> Um, >> may maybe maybe sooner, but yeah, depending on how how tight you pull that budget down, but yeah. Okay. All right.

Um >> well, it's just a risk analysis thing of

um you know, if you could pay off one or the other completely, we would talk about that. This one is still no change because if you get sideways and you got no money, you're going to lose both of them, >> right? >> Either way, cuz you can't pay the bill. >> It doesn't make enough of a dent. So the the you know and until so until you get your home paid off in the next 2 to 3 years, your risk does your risk situation does not really change. Um but

I like your idea. There's nothing wrong with it. Um nothing hugely wrong with it. I I think I would move that way. Uh and again, I I would not do it in the States because you'd be jacking your rate up, >> right? >> And I wouldn't do it with a heliloc in the states either because HELOCs have horrible terms. But um but you know, but

because you're looking at a traditional first mortgage, primary residence, the same type of mortgage on both things and

you know, you're going to go through one more cycle before you, you know, one more fiveyear cycle before you get them paid off and um you're going to be done.

Yeah, that's good. >> Do you rent the cabin when you're not in it or does it just sit vacant?

>> No. Oh, so it's actually in a national park where we're not allowed to, but my my wife is a teacher, so we're out there basically all summer with the kids. And >> does carrying these cut into your Does it cut into your investing at all? Your 15%.

>> No. So, we actually passed the Baby Steps Millionaire uh threshold, I guess, in Canadian dollars. It's not quite the same. >> That's great. Close enough. >> Just a just a couple months ago. So, >> good for you. >> Yeah, I like it, Michael. I think you're thinking it through. Uh, it's not a uh

it's not it's not dumb. It's not in the

stupid column or anything like that. I don't think it's a lifesaver either, by the way. >> It's not like, whoa, that changes everything. No, it doesn't.

It's just kind of yawn a little bit. And yeah, it's okay. Move it over there. But then let's lean in and get that stinking house paid off.

I want that first mortgage on your personal residence gone because you're going that's going to change your life. Mhm.

cranking on it with a $260,000 income, I'm a lot less worried about you at that point. So, yeah, I think you're I I would do it, but not because it's like life-changing. It's just okay to do.

Nothing. >> It helps a little. I see your point. I see why you're doing it. While you're at it, you got to recast the mortgage anyway. Then why not? Yeah. Reset it.

Let's do it. Toby's in Ohio. Hi, Toby.

How are you?

>> Hey, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so I had a question. I'm 27. Trying to navigate life a little bit here about bankruptcy. I've got about $14,000 in

debt. And uh part of that is a car loan.

That's about 6,500. And that car is

broke down now. And I'm also homeless.

So, I'm just trying to figure out if that's a smart move or not, or if it's something that I should live a cash life for the next seven years or not.

>> How'd you find yourself homeless?

>> Well, I originally tried to get into a place and uh they ended up switching over management. I never got my application. and I ended up dropping a uh deposit in uh first month, but they

uh the new management returned that back to me because they ended up moving somebody in that kind of sued the effect of couch surfing and then making it harder to get in somewhere uh prolonging

that. >> So, >> how long has this been going on?

>> Uh about 8 months.

>> Okay. So, when are you getting a place?

>> I don't know yet. Are you working? >> I'm trying to figure that out. Uh, as of two weeks ago, I wasn't or I'm not. Um, but I am applying currently and kind of waiting for pending. >> Explain what's going on with the work. Why aren't you able to keep a job?

Um, well, a lot of times it was uh

unwillingness at first and then here in the last year it was just I think I I

don't know if it was an excuse or not, but mentally I just wasn't really enjoying being in my truck or couch surfing and everything I was doing was going towards expenses like uh you know

I screwed up had a DUI last year so I had some fees I had to be paying. So

>> Toby, you got a lot going on, man.

>> I do have a lot going on. >> So my friend years ago that taught me some of this stuff used to say that financial problems when including when I went bankrupt, sir, financial problems are not the problem. They're the symptom of other things that are going on.

>> Symptom. >> Yeah. And so your your um your money

issues are the symptom of all the other

crap that's going on in your life. not keeping a job, um DUIs, all this other

stuff are are are the causing the money problems. If you kept a job steady, you got you a little apartment to live in steady, you kept it clean, you kept yourself clean, you stayed out of the alcohol, you stayed out of the drugs, you kept working, working, working, working, working, all of a sudden these financial problems are going to go away.

Is you agree with that?

>> I do. I I do. It's just why do I find it so difficult then >> then it's because it's the same thing I had to face and all of us have to face the problem with your money is the guy in your mirror and he's difficult by the

way when I look in the mirror I get the same thing he's difficult if I can get that guy to behave he'd be skinny and rich but he likes donuts you know what I'm saying so you know I mean controlling the guy in our mirror is every one of us it's the thing we struggle with the most okay um and so

are you plugged in at all to a good church in the area.

>> I am good. >> I I I definitely am >> good. I you know, if I were you, I would call up the pastor and say, "Hey, would you put two or three guys in my life to walk beside me and help me become the kind of man I want to be instead of the kind of man I have been?" >> Yeah. You know, and I I've just recently been finding that uh this kind of mentorship with some people.

Yeah. And that that mentorship kind of guided me with the uh self-reflection. And that's why I was like, who else should I call and find out? Good.

>> No. No, Toby. You're not bankrupt.

>> You're broke. You're broke and homeless and don't have a job. You're not bankrupt. >> Broke, homeless, and don't have a job.

>> You get a job, you're not homeless, and you're making some money. You can straighten up this car debt someday, maybe. But I'm not worried about that car debt. They ain't got anything to chase down. If they come find you, they can't get nothing. So, you're what we call judgment proof. But I want you to go have a life. So then you can go deal with it. Uh but bankruptcy does not solve one stinking problem you have. Not one.

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[Music]

Hey, this is so fun. The all-new

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>> So, uh, George and Rachel and Jade are going to be doing that on the 25th.

That's about a week away. And they're going to be unpacking a lot of these advanced features. You're going to be your mind's going to be blown. It's pretty stinking incredible.

I've been doing this a long time and we've come out with some really good things over the last three decades that have helped a lot of people. This probably is the best thing we've ever done. >> It's pretty amazing. The >> Thursday, >> it's uh it's this beautiful mixture of proper use of technology and human beings.

Yeah, it's going to change everything. All right, Daniel's in Kentucky. Hi, Daniel.

>> Good. How you doing, sir? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, um I'm 56 year old. My wife is 55.

We have a son that's 16. And uh my wife's been retired about two years. I retired about two months ago. And um we

um we bring in enough for all our expenses on a pension. You know, we're our pension does that. And I've got um 30,000 in a 401k at my company previously and uh 70,000 in a emergency

fund. And uh about 400,000 just sitting

in the bank. uh like a dummy. I just didn't invest anything. Is it Everything goes well. We're fine right now, but inflation and and any kind of buying a vehicle, we're going to have to go into that nest nest egg.

>> Curious. You're 56. You're probably going to live to 96. You plan on sitting on your butt for 40 years.

>> Well, no. I'm I'm going to do I wanted to do something I wanted to do because I'm away from home about two weeks two days a week with the job I had. So, >> yeah. Okay. So, what do you want to do?

>> Uh, I don't know yet.

>> Okay. That'd be a good thing to figure out yesterday.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Let's get with it. I'm 65. I can't believe you're sitting on your butt at 56. Yeah. You need to go do something, man. Make some money. And that solves a lot of these problems. The second thing solves a lot of these problems is investing the 400k. >> Please.

>> Okay. So in in 2023, if you had it in a

an index mutual fund called an S&P that

reflected exactly what the stock market did in 2024, you would have made 23% and

26% those two years. Now, that's not normal, but just to point out, okay,

here here's what that means. That's $50,000 a year.

>> Mhm. You've lost $100,000

by having that $400 sitting on its butt

>> in a bank account instead of invested.

Well, >> a hundred grand.

>> Yep. >> Why didn't you do it, Daniel? It were you riskaverse or were you just had just never got around to it?

>> Uh fearful. I've been conservative all my life and uh too conservative.

>> Okay, that's good. I can I can work with that one. All right, so here's the answer. There's two kinds of fear and we've all got them. There's fear of

something that will hurt you and that's a real fear and you should stay away from something that will hurt you. The other thing that we're afraid of is things we don't understand and don't know about. Okay? You're standing in the middle of the interstate, 18-wheelers coming at you. You should be afraid and you should move. You're going to die.

>> Okay? >> Right? >> You're going to touch a hot stove. You should be afraid. You're going to get a third degree burn. Okay? Don't do that.

That's a real fear. If your if your seven-year-old uh son or when he was seven, he's 16, but if he was se is learning to ride a bicycle and he's afraid, well, he might fall over and scratch his knee. He ain't going to die and he's going to get the joy of learning to ride a bicycle. So, he's afraid of something he hasn't learned to do yet.

>> Right. >> When I drove a car the very first time, I distinctly remember I was 10 years old. My dad tossed me the keys and gave me no instruction, which was a really dumb idea.

And I I all I can remember is it was a gravel driveway. And when I pushed down on the accelerator all the way to the floor, I just about emptied the driveway with the back tires throwing gravel everywhere until the screaming stopped from all the neighbors, my mother and my dad. And I let off the accelerator finally. But now I've learned to drive a car and I'm not afraid of cars anymore.

But I was afraid that day of cars, okay?

With good reason cuz I didn't know what the heck I was doing. Right? So that's where you are with investing. Investing is not the 18-wheeler or the hot stove.

it. You don't understand it, >> right? >> And it's not The good news is it's not rocket surgery. You can do it. Everybody can understand this. It's not that hard.

So, uh, Jade and I are going to send you to the, uh, uh, Smart Vest

Prosyssolutions.com,

click on the website, get one of those.

And Jade, it's I mean, you came at this the very first time. I had a finance degree, so I had a I had a jump start.

But you and Sam sit down with a Smart Investor Pro the very first time. You didn't know beans. >> No. How's that?

It's pretty intimidating. >> It's intimidating. And I I will say I think it's helpful if you can engage with a show like this or do a little bit of research on your own so at least you can because there's lingo and jargon and you want to feel like you understand that. But if you sit down with the right person, they can help you understand it a little bit more.

>> It's really I mean because here's the thing. You buy a house. Well, that's an investment. There's no guarantee.

You could lose the house. You could lose the the neighborhood could go up in a sinkhole. You'd lose everything. I mean, there's, you know, there's a but the neighborhood could go bad. Sure. You know, and instead you go, okay, I'm buying a house in an area that has a long track record, >> right? >> The trees are big enough I can predict the future based on the past.

>> That's right. >> And that's what you do with an investment. You pick out something that's got a long track record. And then you got to understand how to do it.

Like you had to understand how to buy that first house. >> That's right. And there's 19 moving parts, but they're really not that complicated. Once you do it once, you go n it's doable.

So, uh, you know, I I think if you move that 400, Daniel, into some good investments and then get back to work and cuz you're going to have a better life, man. It's just more enjoyable.

>> You got to use your skills in your mind.

>> Yeah. Go do something big, man. Go do something big. Go make twice as much money you've ever made in your life. start you a business and you go, "Wow, I'm so glad I quit that ugly job." >> Act two. >> It's Yeah. Yeah. Here we go.

>> Dave, you know, this is my favorite question. If you didn't do finance and

real estate, what would you do? Act. If you had to make yourself have an act two, >> finance and real estate. Well, that's the only things I do. >> I know, but I'm saying if you didn't do that, if tomorrow you had to pick something else, what would you pick?

>> I don't have any idea. I But before I decided I mean before I decided to not do this, I would have an idea. But I'll

go straight to the next thing. Yeah.

>> No. I mean, I'm a teacher at heart, but I'm not going to the classroom. No.

>> So, um, but I'm going to teach something. I'm going to lead I'm going to I'm a I love business. I love running a business. Okay. And so, I would open something. >> Open something helping people some way.

And it would probably involve teaching in some way or another. But teaching is part of leadership, too. So, >> yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. But, um, yeah.

>> I thought you might have something off the wall. A pilot. I never never wanted to be a pirate or a secret agent. No, never did. So, a pirate.

>> So, just don't have any I don't have any busted busted Dave dreams. None at all.

It's all good. So, none at all. No busted Dave dreams. Oh, yeah. That's it.

Anyway, yeah, that that's what I would do. I'd sit down with a good Smart Vtor pro and uh get it going that way. And um

you know, I think that'll show you begin to teach you. They've got the heart of a teacher. And having the heart of a teacher is the big thing.

>> And I do want to say this cuz you asked the question. When you first hear um and learn about investing, the first time it doesn't sink in. The first time you hear it, it's just like it's like when you turn the It's like when you wake up in the middle of the night and you turn the lights on to go to the bathroom and then when you turn the lights off, you're like you can't see anything. That's like what it is when you hear about investing for the first time.

>> You you're like, "What was that? I don't remember. Where was it?" And then when you hear it the second time, it sinks in a little bit more. Then the third time it sinks in.

And before you know it, you've heard it several times. Now you're like, "Oh, I get it now. I understand." So it's okay if the first time you hear it, >> you don't fully understand it. That's normal.

>> Okay, I'll go with that.

The point is learn about it because it's not going to kill you. Yeah. >> You need to learn about it and get comfortable with it and that'll get you there. >> Wow.

[Music]

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Not in all states. >> All right. Today's question comes from Dean in Iowa. He says, "If I have debt but also want to invest, why can't I do both and benefit from the compounding interest? I'm 21 and have over 95,000 in

college debt. I won't be able to pay that before I turn 30, and I don't want to wait that long to build wealth." Okay, so Dave, we hear this a lot. Um, it's kind of like that age-old argument of why can't I invest whilst paying off

debt or why do I need to wait till I'm done paying off debt to invest? And the biggest thing I mean, if I go back to the basis of it, it is your income being

your biggest wealth building tool. So, here's the thing. You have $95,000 in debt, which means a portion of your income is going to be going to paying that off. And the longer you wait, the more of that income is not helping you build wealth.

So, while you might be able to put I mean, theoretically, yeah, you could put some money into investing, it's not going to be the full scale of what you could or should put in to build ultim ultimate wealth. So, why wouldn't you just clear that out? Because here's the thing, the compounding interest >> works on your debt, too. >> Yeah, that's the thing.

that's going to accumulate that's going to accumulate more and at a quicker rate

than when you start from zero investing

you know your $100 here and there.

>> Yeah. So Dean, you're 21.

You can do whatever you want to do, honey. You're like an adult and stuff, but you wrote us an ask. Um you're full of opinions and they're all wrong.

>> And you wrote us an ask. So, here's the truth. The probability of you getting out of debt, if you don't focus on it exclusively and with great intensity and get your little butt in gear, the probability of you ever paying off that student loan is close to zero.

If you think you're going to wander out of this over 10 years like you've kept the flu for 10 years, you're not going to do it.

You're simply not going to do it. We've worked with people getting out of debt for way longer than you've been alive.

And so, you know, tens of millions of

people have followed our stuff and gotten out of debt. And one of the keys is for you to get fired up and wired up

where you turn it on. Don't talk to me about being 30 years old and still having this debt. >> How about 24 years old and it's gone.

Three years from now, $30,000 a year cuz all you do is work, young man. You have lots of energy. Go use it. Go get you some money.

You have made a mess and you need to clean up your mess. And the faster you put this in your rearview mirror with the faster the intensity, the higher the probability that you ever build wealth and the higher the probability you ever get out of the student loan debt.

They either do nothing and it stacks like cordwood in a backyard or they get after it and they knock it out fast.

There's hardly anybody in the actual data that does the middle ground and goes, I'm going to very slowly and methodic. Nobody does it.

>> They don't do it. So, you get fired up

and wired up. So, your set of assumptions are wrong. It's not going to take you nine years. You gonna pay off nine $900 I mean $9,000 a year. Come on.

How wussed is that? Come on. Don't be a wuss. Do it, man. Come on. $9,000. Come

on. That's nothing. You need to pay off 30 $35,000 a year cuz all you do is

work.

Clean up your mess. And then you're sitting there at 24 years old without this thing hovering over you >> like most broke Americans walking around with their own spare bedroom for freaking Sally May. They've kept her around so long. She's like a member of the family.

the old ugly aunt with a wart on her nose. >> Mhm. >> And she's stuck in the back bedroom and we're paying payments for her all the time. We can't get rid of her cuz you won't give her an eviction notice.

Dude, roll up your sleeves and punch it in the mouth. Tell Sally she gone.

You're done. You don't get to live here.

I don't like you. You're ugly and you're inhibiting my future. You are going away. You have to get mad about it and

knock it out fast. It increases the probability of doing it. It destroys your little formula because now you're out of debt at 24 or 25 and now you can build wealth really, really fast because you're used to living on very little and paying off a bunch of debt. We can transfer that to living on very little and investing. You probably be a millionaire by the time you're 35 if you do what I tell you to do, what Jade told you to do.

>> But if you don't, you're going to be normal. And if you want to look up the statistics on normal in America, normal sucks really bad. You do not want to be

normal. It's a disaster. So, your goal

is to be weird. That's our thing around here. >> I know. That's right. Yeah.

>> That's how you do it, man. That's the answer. And so, but yeah, if you make a set of assumptions, you're going to be there. And by the way, compounding interest works on debt. Exact same math.

Works against you and as it does working

for you with investment, >> right? >> The only difference is the rate. The only difference is the rate. If you're saving money at the same rate that you're paying off debt at the not paying off debt at the same rate, you have broken even. Exactly.

If you're do it at a lesser rate, you still broke even because you're carrying around all this risk and the increased risk that debt represents. So the answer

folks, the way you know Jay, when I was growing up, bunch of us little bit hillbilly kids, we were running in and out of the house and back door being opening, closing, opening, closing all day. You know, your mother says stuff like, "Were you raised in a barn?" That kind of stuff. And finally, the heat of the summer, she would have it. She'd be done with these kids running in and out, the neighbor, kids, me, everybody else.

And and she would just go, "That's it.

The worm has turned." >> Now, we had no idea what that meant except that the beatings were getting ready to begin, right? That's all we knew. >> And so, but the turn found out later it's actually from Shakespeare. Who knew mom knew Shakespeare? But yeah, there you go. So, but all all I knew was she was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah, >> she had it up to here with these kids

and putting all the air conditioning in the running up the she'd had it.

>> And when you kind of got to get that thing going like, "Mama, the worm has turned. I've had it. I'm not living like this anymore. I make too much money to

be this freaking broke. I live in the most prosperous time in the most prosperous country in the history of mankind. And I'm broke. This is stupid.

I'm going to change." When you get that thing going like that, little little preaching going on, then then you can you can turn it. You can turn it around.

>> But Dean, it's not it's not a compound interest problem, honey. It's a Dean problem. Just like when I went broke, it was a Dave problem. >> Listen, I think it's about him wanting to take the easy way out.

That's all I think. I think you look at 95,000, you go, "That seems like a lot of work. It seems a lot easier to go over here and put my little $100 over here. I'm taking the easy route." And I think it literally just boils down to that.

You can either do the work and get the full the fullness of what you're supposed to have or you can punk out and take the easy route. >> You know, I was I said that on this on the show last week. I was being interviewed in a leadership situation the other day and a guy said, "You've got all these Gen Z's working for you." And I said, "Yeah, I love that generation. They're incredible." >> Uh they're an incredible generation because they've grown up with a magic wand in their hand and if you push a button, stuff happens.

Things show up on your front porch, >> man. That's right.

They're possibility generation and it's fast. >> They think anything can happen, but it all happens fast. That's the downside.

And and he said, "Well, what about them being entitled?" I said, "They're not entitled. They're just impatient." >> Yeah, that's that's good. >> Because they're used to everything coming fast. It comes easy, comes fast.

You just push a button and crap happens.

You can't even have an argument cuz somebody's got the answer before the argument's done. It's like, good gosh.

And so, um, you know, it's, you know, but but it's, you know, but here's the thing, guys. There's no such thing as

good microwave barbecue. That's an

oxymoron. There's only one way to get barbecue. You cook it long.

>> The dog, the neighbor's dog is howling.

>> That's how good barbecue is made. Okay?

And it's like a long cook. Long slow

cook. And guess what? Money's the same way, baby. And so you can't push a button. There is no easy button. And uh while all things are possible to Gen Z, you better you better buckle up, buttercup, because you're gonna have to learn some maturity. And one definition of maturity is learning to delay pleasure to get something better.

>> That's an emotional maturity. That's psychological maturity, spiritual maturity right there. You you delay pleasure to get something better. >> Perseverance.

>> And you'll get a callous while you're doing that because you'll be working all the time. >> And calluses are good for you and patience is good for you. It's called growing up. >> Yeah.

And uh but I tell you man, this a great generation.

>> Yeah. >> But quit looking for the stinking easy button. You're right, Jake. You're absolutely right.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Alyssa is with us in Chicago. Hi Alyssa.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My question is, how much is too much to spend on a wedding?

>> Okay, so >> that's cool. How How much are you thinking about spending?

>> 60,000.

>> Nice wedding. Good. Okay.

>> And >> do you have 60,000?

>> Uh, so we're actively saving to get to

We have about half right now. So by next September when the wedding would be, we would have that. So mom and dad aren't chipping in. That's you and him paying for it.

>> We are going with the intention that we're paying for it. They've briefly mentioned that they might contribute, but no hard numbers have been given or anything like that. >> Okay. So you're assuming it's all on you. >> So what do you make? >> Yeah, I make 90 before

>> 190. Cool. Do you guys have any debt?

>> No debt. Wow.

>> It's not too much.

>> It's not too much. Okay. >> Not if you pay cash.

>> That's exciting. >> Okay. >> You You want to know how I did that?

>> Yes. >> Here's fun. Okay. Average household income in America right now is about $75,000.

The average wedding in America is about $36,000.

It's about half of the average income.

So, if you spend more than half your annual income on your wedding, and if you're paying for all of it, which it sounds like you are, okay? Um, then

you're spending too much on a wedding because you're more than half the average. Now, here's the thing. Keep in mind, average kind of sucks in America.

We don't necessarily want to be average, but um, but you're below 50% of your

>> your uh way below 50% of your $270,000

income.

And so you're you're you're as on a ratio basis, you are half of the

national average, >> which is half.

Weird way to say that, but yeah. So I mean, the national average would put if you if you spent 50% of your income, it'd be 135. >> So you're well below what the average person >> and you're about half of that at 60. And so you're you're very conservative as a ratio.

But now for somebody makes a hundred grand, it sounds like that, you know,

uh, Alyssa's lost her mind, >> you know, but that's what people say that don't have any money and and you've got some money. So >> yeah, when you have more money, you can spend more. >> Yeah. >> of it >> without it being a problem. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and if that doesn't include the honeymoon and we added, I don't know, 10

or 15 on top of that, it >> I'm talking about the wedding. The honeymoon's a different different story now. >> I think that'd be fine. And the the engagement ring is another story. Okay.

But um >> yeah, that's a good differential though. When we're talk about talking about the wedding, there are those three components. There's the rings, then there's the actual party, and then there's your honeymoon. >> What do you do for a living?

>> I do medical sales and he does product

management. >> Cool. Okay. Well, he's going to really like this last suggestion. We've done

three weddings at the Ramsies. I've got three kids that are all married and been married many, many years. Okay. And um Ramsay's we like a big party. We like to celebrate stuff like that. And so um we

we threw major parties on each of these weddings. It was a lot of fun. Um but we learned and that and we did it from the first one. We we introduced this idea that for your fiance will love me. Your

wedding is a project. So let's lay out a budget. >> Yeah. >> In detail. If we're going to spend 60, how much of that's the dress? How much of that's the reception? How much of that's the videographer? How much of that's the preacher? How much is the venue? >> And you lay out a budget. And then guess what? You stick to the budget.

>> And that would be my word of wise for you, Alyssa, because when you when you hear what Dave said, which is >> Yeah. Which is technically you could be spending more if you were being quote average. So for you, the hard part is going to say even though we could spend more, we're going to stick to what we said in the beginning of 60,000.

>> Yeah. I I would pretend like that um that you work for someone and your job was to manage a $60,000 budget and bring the event in on budget on schedule

because your manager project. It's an event project. I mean, we manage events here. It's what it is. And so this is >> and you get fired if you went over someone else's budget. >> Yeah. If you if you work for somebody, you get fired if you screwed it up, right? So that just treat it like it's serious business. And and I know that doesn't sound very romantic, but people use romance as a way to do a lot of stupid butt stuff. So, no, we're not doing that. So, um, no, just lay it out

exactly and you say this is, and you can pull up some percentages. There's some good guidelines online for how much to spend on the dress. I will go ahead and tell you if you're going to have a nice reception to have the big party, it's going to be your biggest line item by far.

>> Like, how many people you think I mean 60,000, you're thinking about inviting a decent number of people, aren't you?

>> It's not huge. So, we've already booked the venue. Um, and we're going through that process, but I'm more of the saver and he's more of the spender. And so, thinking of kind of the rough estimate that we put together with all the, >> you know, videographer, photographer, and all of that, it it just sounds like a lot of money. So, I >> Yeah, I I hesitant and not >> You know what I saying? You know what I mean? When I say scope creep.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. This project, this thing will creep up and the 60 will turn into 80.

Mhm. >> If you do not if you do not line item this and no rough estimates is freaking what we're going to do. And then when you're meeting with the caterer and they go, "Well, we can't add devil egg." No, no, that's all we got.

>> This is what we're doing. >> And well, you know, we could spend, you know, freaking $85,000 on flowers. Who's getting married here? Princess die.

I mean, seriously. So, you know, we're going to go in the field, pick some wild flowers so that we don't we stay on budget. Rachel actually did that one >> because she was over budget on other stuff and the only way she could get it back in budget was to get the flowers down. >> If nothing else, plan for 54.

So at least you've got 10% set aside just as contingency. >> Oh, >> that's what I'd do. >> A little slush fund in the line. >> A little just in case.

>> Yeah, a little just in case fund. I'd have something in there for that. I don't know if I get away with that, but Wow. Wow.

Um yeah, that's exactly how I would do it. And listen, I think you're approaching it very wisely. um you're not counting on the people who have been vague about their possible input.

Uh matter of fact, whatever they come forth with, I'd probably just use that for the honeymoon. And I just lock this baby down on 60 and just go, "We're

doing it." And you and the fiance sit down, agree to that, go, "This is a project like you manage at work. We're going to manage this. We're going to come in on budget. We're going to get the details out." Because there's always something that you can go higher. You can always go one bigger, one better on everything. You get the extra large shrimp instead of the large shrimp.

>> What was the thing on Father of the Bride? Cheaper chicken. >> Oh, yeah. >> Or the cheaper chicken. Yeah. >> You get ice sculptures. >> Yeah, that's it. And so, yeah, you can do it. And you can do that on a $10,000 budget. You can do it on a $60,000 budget. You can do it on whatever. You just manage the budget. That's right. This is what we're doing. And so, uh, it's just we're going to have to get super creative. We're going to do this for 7,800 bucks.

>> We had a lady here on the team that got married and, uh, had a really nice little wedding for 7,000 bucks. and she just slam, you know, they were trying to get out of debt and that's the most they weren't going to spend and uh it was it was really very nice. >> Can I tell you the Okay, Sam and I paid for our wedding out of pocket. Oh, it was like 10,000. >> Okay. >> Um it was a little bit more but I my

biggest regret to this day and it was in the name of doing it debtree. We didn't have an open bar.

>> No open bar. >> That's your That's your regret that you didn't booze up everybody else for free?

>> I mean we were on a yacht. We were It just made sense. You should have had There should have been some drinks on board and >> you you didn't have a Oh, >> there was no open bar. >> There was no bar. >> No. >> No. What? Not. They couldn't even pay.

>> No. >> Open bar would be like you paid.

>> No. Well, I thought it was tacky to have people pay. So, there just was no bar.

>> Just no. Oh, well. Okay. I'll go with that. Okay. But >> listen, it was a mistake. >> That's okay. You know what? They don't remember it. You're the only one that does. >> I guess so. I don't know about that, but >> Sam doesn't even remember it.

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Richard's in Oklahoma. Hi Richard.

Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hey, thanks. Um, boy, I don't know. Uh,

I don't really know where where to start. >> Okay. >> I'm beginning to think I'm I think I'm a lost cause. >> Um, I went through I went through a very similar situation, actually an identical situation that you did.

>> Um, but I was much later in life. I was 55 uh when the banking I was in the mortgage business for 10 years when everything crashed. Um, I lost everything. I was completely ruined.

>> Um, my my confidence was kicked out the door. >> Um, >> so I went through a um I went through a few years of trying to uh get my act together and um went to uh went to

Florida. Uh basically I went back to the one place that uh you never want to go but the one place that's got to take you in. So, um, my mom was very elderly at the time and, um, so I went out and I was taking care of her in Florida. Um, and then it got to a point where I was going to need somebody to help. So, I

got to drive a truck.

Um, and it was something that was kind of conducive because it was like I'd be in the truck and they say, "Okay, uh, where am I going now?" And, um, it was

only going to be for a couple years. I was going to drive for a couple years.

and uh then joined the merchant marines.

I wasn't married. I had lost everything.

Um I had no children and um um

then um uh I was going to join the merchant marines. I figured, okay, I'll drive the country for a couple years, then go sail the world for a couple years. But um then I had to put my mom into assisted living.

>> So in order to handle that, I stayed on the truck and uh was paying for that.

Uh, and I also figured, well, you know, if something came down, I'm a day or two days away versus, you know, a month to two months away. >> I'm sorry, Richard. How can we best help today?

>> Well, it's Well, it's um um

I you know, I never I never sailed, you

know, I never really planned it. You know, based upon a previous caller, I was only totally ignorant and intimidated and not knowing anything about investing, >> afraid of missing out at this um afraid

of losing. And then afterwards, how old are you missing out?

>> Right now, I'm 72. And >> how much money do you have now?

>> Right now, I've got $40,000 in a in a savings account, 5%.

>> Okay. >> Um out of out of what? because then in um in after a couple years then I got involved with something else and it would looked like it was going well and um put good

money after bad when CO hit.

>> Are you still driving? Are you still driving trucks? Are you still working, Richard? >> Yes, I'm still driving now. What my plan was um I wanted to have more of a nest

egg. I wanted Well, I shouldn't say nest egg. I wanted to have, you know, my goal was to have $50,000 in the bank for me to get off the truck, get back to uh um

um get back to Texas where there was a community there of people with common interests and then really research what I could do um >> without without having to try it.

>> What's going on with your what what happened to the house your mom was living in before she went in assisted living? Well, when she died, um it was a at one

point she had taken a reverse mortgage on it, so it went to the bank. >> Oh, shoot.

>> Yeah. And it was a condominium there in

in in Florida.

>> So, so it was worth nothing,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> Um so there are >> Are you just living in your cab? Where are you living? >> Yeah, I'm living on the truck. Technically, I'm homeless. Um,

>> I was living in I was living in Florida.

I had a room. I was renting and a dear

friend of mine.

>> Well, you know, I was just figuring that out because fortunately for the company I drive for that I've been with for a while now, a number of years, they have a minimum of 1250 a week. Uh because you

don't always you can go out and get with the way it is with driving they pay by the mile but they can pay a dollar mile but if you're only getting 300 miles a week that's that doesn't really count.

>> So what do you make Richard?

>> Um with my social security it comes to about 80,000 gross.

>> Okay. And you don't have any overhead because you're living in the truck. How much of that can you save? Can you not save $40,000 a year?

Well, I'm I've been uh I had credit card

debt and um I've been paying that down and then um >> Is it gone? >> I thought you said you were debtree.

>> Um well, no, I didn't mean debtree. I'm

sorry. Um I out of >> How much credit card debt do you have now today? >> 2500 out of what was at one time 60,000.

>> Good. And how much other debt do you have, Han?

Um really um really I I owe the IRS uh

but I'm getting with an account in the beginning next week because I filed an extension >> only 2500 2500 >> right so 4500 and 2500 makes you debtree and then you start stacking cash as fast and as hard as you can for as long as you can drive and you start stacking it to the tune of $4,000 $3,000 a month into a good growth stock mutual fund and you sit down with a smart investor pro if you can do that for five years you could build a good nest egg. >> Mhm. >> I don't know if you got 5 years left, but uh in terms of passing your exams and everything to stay on the road and be safe and all that, but >> but you got to do this today.

Like, you've got to start today. Get online, find that. Don't put it off because if you do, you're going to fall back in your same habit and you're just going to put it in a savings account and it's not going to do any of what Dave is saying it's going to do. So, you've got to do it today.

>> Yeah. I want to set up $3,000 a month automatically coming out of your checking account and then I want you to add more in addition to that. um going straight into mutual funds for your investing. That's $36,000 a year.

It'll be hundred and a half by the time you get done with it with growth. It'll be at 300 before you know it after that in terms of more growth. So, you can actually build an estig, but you're going to have to lean on it and uh your adventures are over now. You're just grinding. We ain't no more time for adventures. We're just going to grind and no more interferences. We have to grind. Whatever comes up, we got to grind. Whatever it is, we got to shift the gears and go. Shift gears and go.

Shift gears and go. Got to make it. You got to make that money. And you take all the runs you can take and you pile the cash as high as you can pile it as quick as you can pile it cuz you are in emergency mode. You're not a lost cause.

But if you don't change your ways, you are. But it's not because the math is killing you. It's cuz you're killing you. >> Do you think he owns that? You got to get you got to get that those two little debts cleaned up right now as soon as poss.

Take the 40,000 and pay off the credit cards and cut them up today and pay off the IRS today. As soon as you get with your tax guy and you figure out exactly what it is, write a check and pay them.

>> Do not delay. Put that behind you and then let's get because that'll leave you $34,000 in your emergency fund, which is just fine. leave that there for the emergency fund and then run over to your go over today like Jaden said and get get an automatic draft started on your checking account for $3,000 a month. And you can do this.

You can do that and and that's going to put you in a much better place three years from now than you ever dreamed you were going to be. >> Um between that and social security.

>> yeah, you you know, you're going to be working a while longer. That's for sure.

Um and but then that'll get that'll get you away from wolf get the wolf away from the door. >> Yeah. Is that truck his asset or does he have to turn that in when he's done? >> No, he's working for somebody. He's driving their truck which is just fine.

>> Okay. >> So, because otherwise that stupid thing is going down in value and that'd be another debt we own, >> right? >> No, he's much better off. He's much better off in the seat he's in.

>> That's the place to be, especially in this situation. >> So, um >> yeah, just just grind. Just grind. Just grind. Just grind. And um you've had a

lot of drama in the last uh 20 years.

And you don't you don't for the next five years you don't get any more drama.

You don't have room for it. You got to grind and pile cash. Grind and pile cash. If drama knocks at the door, tell them to go next door. We don't have a plague going on here. Okay? It's going to have to go somewhere else.

>> You really do. I mean, you you've had your share of it, my friend. So, but it's not hopeless at all. But you're going to have to the the only way it's not is if you lean in and That's right.

really get laser focused on this and knock the crud out of it.

>> But but it can be done. So yeah, there'd be 100,000 in three years you'd have in there. A little better than that, about 110. And that will have grown

probably be bumping down to 100 and a half. >> And then if you left 100 and a half alone for seven years, it' be 300, but you don't have seven years there. So yeah, but you're going to have some money. you have a little bit of money and you'll have your um >> at least not be right on the edge of everything and get you a little something >> apartment to rent, >> very inexpensive apartment to rent and come off the road and do something else then too. But um yeah, I' I'd plan on

doing something plan on creating an income. have to [Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years

and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

If you're ever around the Nashville area, stop by and see us. We do the show on the glass live from 1 to 4 central

time every day. And there's usually 50 to 200 people out here. Um, partly to watch the show, but partly because the coffee and the homemade cookies are free. So, there's that. And come by and hang out with us. We do pictures at the commercial breaks and all that kind of stuff. and you might have the opportunity to uh see someone stand on the debtree stage right here in the lobby to do their debtree scream. Dave and Roxan are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi Dave. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do you live?

>> We're from Calgary, Canada.

>> Fine. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> Uh 700 to uh,970.

>> Wow. Oh. How long did this take?

>> About 7 years and uh four months. I I

smell a a home payoff.

>> Yes. >> Good for you. We're looking at weird people. >> I love it. What's this house worth?

>> About 800,000 right now.

>> Wow. >> Very cool. And how much in your nest egg these days? >> About 320. >> So you're millionaires. Baby steps millionaires. >> How old are you two? >> I'm 37. >> I'm 45. >> And you're Baby Steps millionaires in Calgary, Canada. I'm so proud of y'all.

>> Awesome. Thank you. >> Way to go. How's that feel?

>> Feels amazing. >> Amazing. Yeah. >> How many millionaires in your uh in your line? Your parents, your grandparents, all that kind of thing. >> Um, >> no one. >> No one. >> You're the first one. You broke it.

>> And my brother's here with me. I think he's going to He's a millionaire. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. So, both of you made it. All right. Good. So, a whole new line to the family tree coming with you, too. >> Yes. >> Way to go, guys. I'm proud of you.

Excellent job. All right. and your range of income during that seven years.

>> Yeah, it's really interesting. We started at 30,000, almost made nothing and uh by the end of the journey, 7-year journey, we make about 700,000 right now. >> Oh, amazing. >> 700. >> Amazing. >> What do y'all do? We we started I was a

general manager uh of a cleaning company and a facility company and >> um I used to work in finance in a government >> and along the way we started an online business and uh in um affiliate marketing and it started the sales started to pick up and that's what we do full-time now >> in freight marketing. >> No no affiliate marketing >> affiliate marketing high ticket. Yeah.

>> Oh wow. Good for you.

>> Awesome. >> Pretty cool. Well congratulations you two. Thank you. >> Zoom. Zoom. What a wonderful income.

This is very cool. All right. How did uh how did two a power couple like you guys get plugged into the Ramsey stuff.

>> Um it started actually I was listening to Joyce Mayor um sermon and it she talks about um financial peace university total money makeover by Dave Ramsey. So I started searching about you. I got so excited about Baby Steps and I showed it to him and he's very skeptical. >> I was skeptical. I used to be a financial adviser. I wasn't a big fan of uh Dave Ramsey at the time.

And but our turning point was that it was February 2018. Uh at that point um

we had about $86,000 of consumer debt.

Uh 24 failed businesses.

>> Wow. >> And uh the only thing that was left for us was that we were managing a uh an apartment and we were living for free.

Again, our income was about 30,000. We got home and we got an eviction letter saying we don't need you anymore. M >> and that kind of almost broke us. And I remember that day we were afraid, you know, we were mad at each other for, you know, saving nothing and living for free.

And I remember Roxan prayed this very powerful prayer, right? >> Yeah. I asked God to heal our finances um to lead us to a solution and um to lead us to the right opportunity.

>> Yeah. and and and that's when we you know for me it's like total surrender. I said you know what I may be a financial adviser but uh as Dave would say you know I don't like have a six-pack right so I'm f I'm a fat financial adviser so I need to have total surrender and we went all in after that so >> Wow. >> Wow. So you just plugged in online?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Online cuz it they don't from what I know they don't have it >> live in Canada and Canada doesn't like the word university >> when it's not like a real university. So they won't let us in there. But yeah.

Wow. So cool, man. I'm proud of you.

>> Thank you. >> Very neat. So, um, what was the first

thing you did to get the income up?

>> Yeah. So, >> I mean, you're sitting there homeless.

>> Al almost. >> So, we started, um, you know, I I started to apply on, uh, I mean, full-time and, you know, like we're employable. Um, so I got full-time job

and then you got full-time job. We started go back to actually work because we had this >> mentality of like we're, you know, we're want to be entrepreneurs, but we didn't want to have a full-time job because we have a wrong mindset about hard work.

So, we all actually went back to full-time work, >> Roxan and I. And then we went intense.

We had cleaning jobs. We had, >> you know, the best side hustle for us was like we had a um we rented our apartment that we were living in, right?

>> Yeah. And >> um because we were living in a a two-bedroom apartment um and we started to rent the second bedroom um to international students >> um and that I think it gave us like $500

extra >> and then we sold our Mercedes-Benz. It took us like 3 months to really think about it. So we sold that uh Mercedes-us Benz that free us more um cash flow for

us. >> And then we sold some stuff in uh Facebook Marketplace as well. and we did cleaning jobs. >> Yeah. Everything that we saw that wasn't, you know, we had like three iPads for some reason. We sold two of them. I had an old golf club. We sold it. >> You know, we had an old suit. We put it in FB marketplace. Everything must go.

>> You know, there was a there was a um um >> So, where did you grow up?

>> Um I grew up in the Philippines and he grew up in the Philippines, too.

>> Okay. All right. >> And so, you're in you moved to Canada.

Um whole new opportunity. Yeah.

>> Whole new set of things. bunch of failed businesses, take the full-time jobs plus all the side hustles, start scratching and digging and one of those side hustles became the affiliate marketing that blew up. >> Yeah. Along the way, um, you know, I was I was I wanted to come here to thank you, Dave, because I >> we talk about that the this journey healed us because on those businesses, it wasn't the business per se.

It was, you know, I was our impatience. You know, we had a sickness called ABD.

when the business become >> sounds like an entrepreneur to me.

>> When the business became challenging, we said maybe there's something easier out there. But baby step two really taught us to be patient, have you know have spirit of contentment, you know, be be creative, be resourceful, everything an entrepreneur needs, right? And when we hit our, >> you know, the business along the way, it was February started October 2018 is when we started affiliate marketing.

Mhm. >> That's it took off because, you know, God blessed that business because we now have the character, the foundation >> that sits on it. So, it's >> something. You guys are incredible.

>> That's amazing. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Preach it. Preach it. I love it.

Well done. So proud of you.

>> Way to go. >> How's it feel now to be this age

>> and uh you know, I mean, you go through

all of that and now you're millionaires already. >> Thank you. >> And uh it was not a smooth journey.

>> It was a it was a gut-wrenching journey.

Mhm. >> Uh but rich rich and uh um so how's it

feel now that you're there? >> Feels weird to be weird.

>> Feels amazing. Um at peace um knowing that you know we're taking care of God's resources. Um we we learned that it's not our money, it's um it's God's money.

And we realize that if if God blessed us earlier, we would lose it. Yeah.

>> But now because God knows that we're prepared, so we he we can handle more.

So >> yeah, when you're faithful in the little things, you'll be given more to manage.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. It's >> pretty much in his scriptures. Love it.

Proud of y'all. Very, very well done.

And uh you brought your son with you, right? >> Bring him up. Do you want to introduce him? Have him part of this? >> Yes. >> All right. How how old is he and what's his name? >> He's four years old. His name is Caleb.

>> Hey, Caleb. Well done, brother. All right.

He just being the handoff here. I love it. Very cool. Good-looking guy.

>> Fun, fun, fun. He has no idea how much of a hero his mom and dad are. Uh they've changed their entire lives. Very

cool. Their entire family tree is completely shaken up. Way to go, Caleb.

Pretty cool. You selected good parents, brother. >> So cool. >> Good job. All right, Dave and Roxan and Caleb. $73,000

paid off in 7 years and 4 months, making from 30,000 to 700,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 To God be the glory. We're

debtree.

>> I love it.

>> That's about as good as it gets right there, man. How fun. Way to go, you

guys.

[Music]

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Ryan is in Idaho. Hey Ryan, what's up?

>> Well, thanks to technology, I'm calling you from the tractor seat, so >> that's kind of neat. Um, so I guess the the main reason for my

call is you always say, uh, if you woke

up in my shoes, what would you do? So, I guess I I'm just looking for a little advice.

Um, so me and my wife have been married about 5 years. Uh, we've had a couple of little kids and uh I pursued a a degree

in diesel mechanics and then moved to a commercial potato farm as a as a diesel mechanic. Um, so this time of year I

make a a very large substantial amount of money during the harvest and then kind of tapers off during the rest of year as we do maintenance and other things. So, I kind of live on a boom and

a bust cycle. And uh we've kind of been

working the big steps trying to get stuff paid off while we have the money to do so. And um I've kind of just been

trying to figure out what to do. My my wife's been very sick. A lot of our our debt is actually medical debt.

And we found kind of a I guess like a

hormonal therapy. It's It's kind of a an extensive um program to help her feel better. And

I'm kind of in a in a weird place where I'm making a lot of money and I'm like, "Well, do I take the money and start paying off debt or do I take some money and help her feel better so we don't have as much medical debt in the future?" >> I kind of just You help your wife. You help your wife, sir.

>> Before you do anything before you do anything, you take care of what what's the nature of what's the nature of her illness?

It's it's more hormonal. Uh all the doctors have kind of said after she had babies, it just kind of messed with her hormones. And so we kind of been to a bunch of different doctors and and really the biggest issue is that it's not it's not covered under any kind of insurance. It's not anything we can we can just take care of. And so we've we've sought out a lot of >> So is she struggling with depression after the postpartum?

>> Oh, all sorts of different things. uh depression on top of just actual illness. I mean, she's sick all the time. She doesn't feel good. And trying to take care of two little kids while I'm on, you know, I'm out in the field gone all day. It's just >> What's it costing you? What's it costing you to do the treatments? Are you just you're hitting your max every year? Is that what it is?

>> No, it's it's completely it's got to be completely out of pocket. So, the doctors have said it's about a $6,000 procedure that I just have to come up with cash >> $6,000, >> which I can do. Obviously, I make I make a lot of money right now.

>> What's What's a lot of money? >> I don't pay anything on my debt.

>> What's a lot of money? >> I make about 20 grand a month during harvest.

>> Okay. And so for three or four months

pile >> Yeah. I can stockpile a lot of money right now. >> So you make 60 grand in three months, but then you don't make much the rest of the year. >> Yeah. What do you make the rest of the year?

Um, I average,

so I make about 80 a year.

>> Okay. >> And so I'd say probably half. It's probably closer to 30 or 40 grand during harvest and then the rest year kind of evens out. So I still have a consistent paycheck. >> Okay. All right. And um Okay. So I I

don't know anything medically about where you are. Um, but if you have a high probability in your mind and you've solved for that that that this I mean you work on engines and so if the doctors have convinced you that this will work on your wife um you know you're trying is this a high probability of a fix. I don't want to throw $6,000 on something that they just hope it might work. >> You know it's a 10 10% probability.

No thank you. I'll figure out something else.

>> Okay. >> Everything's everything's paying minimum payments and you're living on a budget and you come up with six grand and then we go back to we're living on a budget and we start paying down the smallest debt, the largest debt.

>> Okay. And and that's kind of what it it

was kind of hard because it's not it's one of those things where it's like I feel like we should pay it, but even my wife's in here like we need the money for other things. We're trying to pay off debts. We're trying to get >> Well, I mean, you're probably spending $6,000 on medical bills, though, >> right? >> That's the thing.

If you don't do this, you're going to spend the same money coming in and out of the hospital, right? >> On other things, >> I guess. I don't know. I don't know what you're dealing with.

And I'm not a medical doctor if you know I couldn't tell you if I did know. But um it's a fairly the way you've explained is pretty vague. I have no idea what she's facing.

uh you know I I

don't know. It sounds like it's immune disorder of some kind. >> I don't know. But I do know I I think the hard part is when you're wanting to go, you know, hard on the baby steps, it's it's hard to let other things go in front of that.

But the truth is, yeah, health health when you have a health concern or something that's very seriously affecting your health, that does need to jump in. >> Yeah. Well, not not only do we not want to be sick and not want to hurt, but on top of that, just the mathematics are you come out ahead. >> Yeah.

>> If you don't have the medical bills because you paid the money to get the right get the treatment, you know, assuming it works. And that's that's the thing you've got to understand. And y'all need to be your own advocate with these >> very true >> off insurance procedures and make sure you've got a high probability of this stuff and it's not some witch doctor thing. I don't have any idea what you're getting into here.

>> But um but I I truly know nothing about it and I can't tell any I couldn't tell based on what you told me anyway. So um yeah, if you if you think it's going to help your wife then it gets first.

diligence to really know that I know that I know that this is going to have a, you know, that nine out of 10 patients, they do this, then they quit having the ongoing illnesses, right?

>> Yeah, that's right. Whatever it is we're trying to accomplish here. Let's let's let's see some cause and effect to this, not just, oh, well, I think this will work. Let's try her as our next guinea pig. No, I I don't want to do that either. Thank you, Kermit. That's okay. We'll pass. Uh Jay's with us in Arizona.

Hey, Jay. What's up?

Hey. Uh, so yeah, I got a question for you. My um I don't really know where to start. My my little sister was killed in an accident >> um a couple years back. >> Oh my god. The company responsible for it basically just failed to meet a whole bunch of safety regulations.

>> We have received >> 22. >> Wow. >> So sorry.

>> Sorry. Um we have we have received a wrongful

death payout. Um the grand total I don't

know about I have requested but I I have no interest in knowing. I just want to know what affects me. And basically what affects me is that my parents have set up trust accounts for everybody with

enough in them under the management of a financial advisor that I'm told that will set up generational wealth. I will not have to worry about retirement. My kids will not. My grandkids will not.

And we are being given on top of that um all of our debts outside of four walls are being wiped out. >> Wow. >> And then a onetime financial gift of 38,000.

And >> that sounds weird. >> You know, my parents financial >> where did that money where did that amount come from?

Um, in Arizona, the maximum amount that a married couple can give their kids is 38,000 before Uncle Sam wants his house.

>> Got it. Okay.

>> Uncle Sam lives in Washington, not in Arizona.

>> That's fair. Um, but um they've I mean

they've they randed the crap out of their finances. They're almost debtree.

Um and they weren't five years.

>> So your mom and dad are receiving this money, >> correct? >> And you don't know how much it is?

I don't know how much the grand total is. No high. >> What I what I would do is operate my life as if it wasn't there. And I would save for retirement and I would save for my kids college.

And then if any of this money does come your way as a result of all this um trust funds and all these things they're doing, then it's just gravy on the biscuit. It's just extra money. But I would continue to operate my life normally as if this wasn't there. And then if it comes, fine.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Jade Washaw Ramsay personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Barbara is in Dallas. Hey Barbara, how are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> I'm very nervous. >> That's okay darling. We've never lost a patient. How can we help?

>> I'm calling because I'm going to try to get through this without crying. Um, my mom recently suffered a series of strokes. >> Oh. >> And since then, she she had some

short-term memory loss and the medical

staff basically said that she should not be by herself anymore. And so, she does

live alone. And I'm she lives about 4

hours from me. She used to live with me.

um wanting to her to come back to live with me, but I'd have to live um build

onto my house to do that. Um I'm

recently debtree following the baby steps and I just don't know what to do because I don't have the money to

build saved. So, I was hoping y'all could help.

>> How old is she?

>> 75. And you said she's had a series of

strokes.

>> Yeah, she had a seven many strokes.

>> Oh, wow. >> So, is she mobile?

>> Yes, physically she's strong. It's more

her memory um that's been affected.

>> Okay, that that Yeah, that sounds right.

All right. Um what is her financial condition?

She no savings, no retirement,

nothing. Basically, >> she has no money.

>> No, >> she own her house.

>> She has a mortgage, but yeah, she has her house. >> What's it worth?

>> Probably about 150.

>> And what is owed on it?

>> Uh 50.

>> Okay.

Are you the Are you the um only child?

>> No, I have uh two siblings.

>> Okay. Are they going to take care of her?

>> They are. Right now, my sister lives about an hour. They go, she goes on the weekends and then my brother lives about 30 minutes and but they work in town so they go during the week, >> but she's by herself for the rest of the day. >> So that's probably what that would look like if she stayed there.

>> Sounds like that she needs to sell her house and be moved into assisted living to me. >> Mhm.

I don't think you need to build on

>> Okay, >> number one, your brother and sister are in town where she is. You're the one that's four hours away. You're going to move her four hours away from them >> and you need their help. >> And you need their help and they're willing to help and they're good people. They've been trying to help as best they could with their schedule. Okay.

>> Um >> Yeah. And number two,

um I if I'm 77 and I've had a series of strokes, um I don't know what my probability is to live five more years.

What do you think?

>> I have no idea. >> I don't know. But I don't It doesn't sound good. You know, I don't think this is a Most people that are in that situation don't live 15 years. Would you agree with that?

>> Sure. >> Yeah. I mean, we're all going to go sometime. Um, I'm not trying to be cold.

I know it's your mom, but I'm just trying to say, you know, you don't need to go spend 50 or $60,000

>> uh for something that's going to be for four or five years.

>> Even if she did live longer than that, it's probably going to be get past your ability to care for her.

>> Yeah. Cuz even if you even if you took,

let's just say, look, let's say you did sell her house and take the money and use it to build onto your house, it still doesn't cover the fact that you wouldn't be working because you'd be home taking care of her, right? Cuz some the fact remains that someone still has to take care of her during the day.

>> Yeah. >> Listen, I I I love your heart and I I

hope my kids want to take care of me as badly as you want to take care of her. I think that's awesome. And that's an act of love and that's a good heart thing.

I'm just trying to help you through the actual um the realities of your desire.

What is your desire? What's the reality of your desire to do this wonderful thing? And then what's best for mom?

What's going to give her the best quality of care? Um I think she's got those two kids right next to her. I I would find some kind of assisted living there. >> And um I'd sell the house and put her in that.

And if she outlives that, if she outlives that money there, then we'll work on something else.

>> Okay. >> But I suspect that you could probably get, you know, reasonable care in that area. I don't know. You just have to shop around and find out what's available and what can be done and so forth. Uh does either your brother or your sister have room for her if they had uh someone there to care for her in their home?

They do, but and they've offered for her

to go live with them, but she keeps

saying she doesn't want to. She wants to come here. >> Why? Why?

>> Is there Is there something with that? Because whenever we mentioned your siblings, you kind of have a bit of a pause >> and yet they're both doing their thing. They're helping.

>> Yeah, they are. They are. They definitely are. Um, it's

>> Do you just have the closest relationship? >> Say it again. Huh?

>> She used to live here with me. And when my dad was here, my dad passed away in 2018. >> Are you single?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Well, I mean, how many bedrooms do you have?

>> I have a three-bedroom house. Why would you need to build on?

>> The problem is is that she's got three

dogs and I have three dogs.

>> No, she doesn't. >> This is not This can't be about dogs.

>> We're not building onto a house for dogs.

>> Yeah. >> No, no, different discussion.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Sorry, Mom. You want to live here? We don't have three dogs.

I can help you with that. I love dogs. I love my dog more than I do most humans.

But no way. No way. We dogs don't make

this decision. This is too important, too big a decision. We're trying to figure out how to care for a lady who's had a series of strokes. And now dogs

enter the discussion. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, no, she can move in with you. The dogs can't.

She sells her house and you put her in one of the bedrooms and you hire somebody to care for her there if you don't want to put her in assisted living. It's actually a better economic better economic value anyway. So, yeah, that's easy. Okay, let the dogs go stay with somebody.

Rehome them. Is that what they call it now? >> I don't even care. I just Now I know what the real deal is with the situation.

>> Yeah. The kid, the brother and sister said no dogs. >> Yeah.

You called us to go into debt to build a wing for the dogs. Come on, girl.

Seriously. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. Now we've gone. No. No. You

take care of your mom. That does not include taking care of her pets. This is a lady who has no money, has saved no money her whole life, and now her family is going to have to care for her. They are not obligated to take care of her dogs. I'm sorry. Dave's so cold. He's so mean to animals. He doesn't like animals. I love animals.

>> Yeah, but this is >> This is just way off the chart.

>> See

Heat. Heat. N.

[Music]

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Joseph's in California. Hi, Joseph. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing great, sir. I got a question about a few problems I'm facing currently. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I current Okay. So, I've been a full-time gig worker. I've been driving for Uber and Lift and I financed two vehicles. Um, the first one I financed was a Honda CRV. Um, and when I

bought it, I bought it at the at the peak when prices were so uh inflated,

you know, dealerships were marking up prices and there was low inventory and, you know, the car prices were much higher, right? So, I bought it in 20 >> uh I financed it for 60 60k.

>> This was in 2020, like the beginning of 2022. >> You you financed a Honda for 60k to

drive Uber.

It was It was Okay. So, it was like 59 out the door. And >> Well, I mean, you financed a Honda >> for 50 or $60,000 to drive Uber >> and CRV. >> Correct. Cuz I I got So, the thing is I got advice from other drivers that, hey, you can really make good money. >> You got financial advice from other Uber drivers.

>> Yeah. >> You just said that out loud.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. >> Okay. So, you got the $60,000 car. What else? Yeah. And so it was just a regular SUV.

And so, um, I was making decent money at first. I was making about 2,700 a week, um, easily. And then I started seeing my earnings go down because then Uber, you know, they got rid of this one program called Uber Green, >> which most hybrid vehicles qualified at the time. >> Uh, and you know, Uber Green is like that feature that gives passengers the option to ride in a vehicle that's uh, eco-friendly, right?

And so a lot of them think that, you know, a clean hybrid vehicle or Tesla is going to show up to pick them up. So they got rid of that feature. So all hybrid vehicles don't qualify for that. So then my I would say my earnings dropped by like $500 or $600.

was talking to other drivers. They're like, "Hey, you might need to level up, get an XL vehicle, which is like a three row seat SUV, >> right?" So then what I did was >> So did you trade in the CRV for >> No, no, no. I I went to the I went to the dealership. I put down because I had savings of 50,000. I put put down 30,000

to get the um it was an Acura MDX.

>> So, you kept the Honda CRV and then got an Acura MDX.

>> Yeah, they they didn't want to they dealership was like, "Hey, we take it.

There's like a lot of negative equity." Da. So, I was like, "Maybe I should take maybe I should just keep this car." >> So, what' you pay for the MD? >> Disperse the miles.

>> Um about 54,000.

>> Oh, Lord. Um, and I got this, but I got this a little later. I I bought this one in like 2024.

>> You financed 54. So, you put down 30 and financed 54. So, you paid 84 for it.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. Stupid. That's exactly. And how

old are you? >> I'm really pissed off at my >> Joseph. How old are you, Joseph?

>> 29, sir. >> Okay. All right. Do you have a real job yet? And uh I did at the at the moment, but I was just I wasn't making the kind of money that I was making doing Uber and Lift.

>> No, honey. You weren't making any money doing Uber and Lift because you haven't been smart enough to factor in all the losses on your vehicles.

>> You're right. You're right. >> When you factor that in, you didn't even break even. And by the way, you didn't take out gas and and repairs either, did you? >> No. >> Yeah. And I was going to get to that. Yeah. >> By the time you do all of that, you didn't even make you didn't even make money on all this. You've been working for free for Uber.

>> That's true. Um because I I at first I saw the money was great. You know, like when I got >> No, the gross revenue was great. The net profit was not great. >> 3500, >> right? >> There's a difference. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, now you're stuck in these two cars, honey. >> What a mess. >> Two car loans.

>> And And do you have a job now?

>> Uh currently, uh yes, I do have a job.

What do you make? Um, unfortunately about 22 an hour. Not a lot.

>> Okay. What were you doing? >> I don't have many. I don't have I don't have a lot of skills, you know. >> What were you doing before your Uber escapades?

>> Yeah, I was just I was working as an I was just doing regular uh minimum wage jobs, you know, like working in customer service industry, like fast food, restaurants, you know, service industry and then, you know, security. the Acura.

You put 30,000 down, you should not be upside down. You should be able to sell this vehicle. What's it worth

>> there? Okay. So, if I were to sell it to a dealership um >> private sale, please take it for >> private sale, not >> private sale. I've I've um private sale.

I mean, it's worth on Kelly Blueick about 48 because I owe on it.

>> And you owe what?

>> Uh 54. A little over 54. So, and but the

problem is I don't have any money left over, so I wouldn't even be able to pay the difference. >> I understand that. I'm just trying to You put down $30,000, you've driven it one year, and you're already upside down.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Are you sure? Wait a minute. That is that that's what the dealer >> There's just no way. Yeah.

>> I mean, how many miles put on How many miles you put on it?

>> About 30,000.

>> Oh, something doesn't add Does that Does that sound right? >> No. I was going to say that doesn't add up to me.

>> Um, okay. So, well, here's the deal.

>> Well, no, because it's a newer It's a 2024. That's why the value is not so low. >> That's why it dropped so much. Mhm.

>> Still. >> Oh, no. Wait, wait. Did it I'm confused.

Were you guys expecting a lower number than 40? >> Well, well, typically expecting a higher number. >> Yeah, because you put 30,000 down, which means there's that much room. You had to lose $30,000 in value before you got upside down. >> Right. Right. But when I bought it, it was brand new, had zero miles. I put 30,000 miles on, >> which is not a lot.

>> It is in one year, but it's not enough to devalue it that far.

>> Um. All right. And they're rough milesing. Um,

>> is your is is your is your credit terrible? Can you go to the get down to the bank and get a loan for the difference?

No, it's Yeah, it's kind of bad because I'm I'm I'm late. I've been late for a month. >> Okay. >> On one vehicle. >> And I assume both of these loans are with the car companies, right?

>> Yeah. Both with the same. Yeah.

>> No, they're with the same. Who are they with?

>> Uh, you know, Honda, what do you call it? Finance. There's like Yeah.

>> Yeah. They have like their own financing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Got it from the same dealership and so Yeah. >> Okay. Um, well, what I'm going to do is try to scramble and get out of these cars with car loans and extra work. I want you to work a bazillion hours and not at Uber.

>> Um, actually, actually, you got two cars sitting there. You could go make some money with Uber now and pile up some cash really, really fast. I mean, how fast can you make $6,000? >> How fast you make $6,000 and just put that aside and get rid of this one car driving the other one. >> Drive the Honda. issue. So, so that's

what I was trying to tell my family members that maybe I should move to a different market where I can make that money because my earnings drop.

>> Listen, you can make $6,000 make doing anything. I don't care if you get a job at Target. >> I I ma'am, I get that. It's It's not

simple, you know, especially with like I got to pay for like groceries. I got to pay for, you know, what market are you in? >> That's for California.

>> I know. We're in California.

>> Yeah. Uh San Francisco.

>> Okay. Yeah, you probably do need to move to a different market. You're in one of the most expensive markets in the world.

Um the only good thing is there the Uber is expensive, but other than that, your cost of living is killing you. That's going to >> so yeah, you know, but but I do want you to do something to earn a bunch of money as fast as you possibly can. And yeah, if you move, that's fine, but you've you know, you've got to reverse the things that are killing you. And that the first thing is to not be driving the Honda the

the second car cuz we've got to get out of it. It's the one you have a chance of getting out of the other one. You're neck deep in it.

>> And if you just turn these cars in, they're going to sell them for 50% of what you think they're going to sell them for and they're going to sue you for the difference and you're going to find yourself in bankruptcy and you're going to find out that Uber your Uber career bankrupted you along with some really stupid decisions. But um that's where you're going to end up if you don't fight your way through these. So voluntary repositions or straight up repossession are really really bad for you, Joseph.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the DebtFree stage. Zach and McKenna are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Good. We're doing well. Yeah, happy to be here. >> Where do you guys live? >> Uh we're out in the uh Seattle area in Washington State. >> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> A whopping just north of $68,000.

>> Nice. >> Good for you. And how long did that take? >> Took about two and a half years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Started off at about 117,000, took a dip to zero, and now we're looking at finishing off at about 150 this year.

>> Good. What do you guys do for a living?

>> Uh, I'm a police officer.

>> Cool. >> Yep. And then I stay home with our four kiddos. >> Love it. Love it. Congratulations. And what kind of debt was the 68,000?

>> Well, it was a little bit of everything.

Uh, big chunk of it was medical debt. We had car debt. Uh, we had credit card debt. And I think that was about it. Oh,

yeah. Pretty much everything you could have is what we have. Kind of normal. A good mix. >> Normal is no fun. How long y'all been married? >> Uh, it'll be 10 years. Yeah.

>> Okay. That's about the mark. Yeah. Took you that long to get there. Yeah. Okay.

And then, um, two and a half years ago, something happened. What happened?

>> Yeah. We were kind of, it felt like our paycheck was constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul type of thing. Our credit cards were just about maxed out. And when they just had just enough wiggle room, we'd pull from another account to pay for that bill and this bill.

It just got to a point where we we felt like we're on a sinking ship and we just had to change something. So >> yeah.

bills and and that was really stressful obviously and then you >> bring four kids into the picture and >> Oh yeah, sure. >> all of a sudden that stress becomes just even more so and So, how'd you find us?

>> Uh, it's funny. My mom, uh, I was a missionary for my church way back in the day, and she gave me a book, the uh, I forget which one. We've read a whole bunch of them, but she gave it to me and I read it and for, for whatever reason, I didn't think we had to go past the first baby step of a $1,000 emergency fund. We did that forever and then it was like, "Oh, yeah, we're not supposed to have debt." So, we've always been around and exposed to it.

And then my little pee brain finally figured out that we're supposed to get past that that first baby step. And that's kind of where we just when we hit that head of we can't really pay for anything anymore and we got to make a change and that's kind of when we got back into things. So >> yeah. Wow.

>> Yeah. So I got I worked in the tech industry and uh it was during COVID the

market was real hot. It was really easy to get a job and that's when I got up to 117 and then as CO kind of died down uh

I got laid off for about five months and so that was went down to z and that was in the midst of us trying to pay off our debt. So that that was a really uh big hurdle in the whole middle of that and that's why I made the career change from working in tech to now being a police officer. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Very cool. And in Seattle proper >> uh just outside of Seattle. Yeah. Real close. >> Okay. Good for you. Wow. Well done.

>> That's a big deal. You know, paying off $68,000 with four kids at home, middle of a career change. I mean, what I have some guesses, but what was the hardest part? >> Uh it was just the I think we were talking about this earlier and for us it was just the time away. uh being the sole provider, it was I was putting in 60 to 80 hour weeks for almost two and a

half years. Um and so it was it just the

time away from the family and the kids was really really hard. >> Yeah, we had a lot of conversation with the kids because he went from being a work at home dad, you know, he was at home with his tech job and and so it was really hard all of a sudden to have him at home 24/7 basically and then he lost his job for a few months.

been gone a lot and he still is because we've got some goals we're working towards and um >> so yeah it was we had lots of hard conversations with the kids and luckily though they've been on board with us which we've been grateful for and um we'd rather do it now while they're little than you know later and and

stuff. >> Gosh. Yeah. >> Yeah.

You're changing your whole family tree. It's worth it. Worth it. They'll be better off.

You'll be better off. Everybody will be. >> Yeah. The whole mindset change too was huge.

I remember the first time when we first were like, okay, we're actually sticking to a budget and we're in the I think it was Walmart selfch checkckout and we were like a dollar over and it was for some stupid poster board and they had to do the walk of shame all the way back to the back of the store like can't afford this like yeah it's a dollar and I can't have it. I had to go back. It is and that's what made that change was just snap. Yep.

We had to change a lot of habits of you know the immediate gratification and delaying that was huge. >> There was a lot of peace with that too.

goals. Yeah. And it was just there was a light at the end of the tunnel finally.

Yeah, >> I want to ask more about that because a lot of people will say, you know, when we're telling people to be gazelle intense and and just really go hard and baby step to, you know, the push back is, well, you know, I got to pick up my coffee and I I just, you know, I got to do my run through Chick-fil-A, whatever.

>> But what you said about the poster board, it is true. You know, how you do anything is how you do everything. So, talk to that person who says, "Jade, my my latte doesn't matter." Or, you know, just this one thing. Talk to that person.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's you you get to choose which discomfort you have, right? Do you want the short-term discomfort of not having your latte or the long-term discomfort of being in debt and that stress and and for us it was an easy choice when we put it in that perspective, that lens of what would I rather have now or in the future. And it's it makes it real simple when you look at it in a bigger perspective.

>> I agree. >> Yeah, it it shuts down the need for it then. I mean, what feels like a need just becomes a want. You go, >> yeah, >> I don't have to have it right now control.

Yeah. >> I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And these kids whole lives are changed because of you. Way to go, Hero. Proud of y'all.

Very, very well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? >> Yeah. Just make a plan and stick to it.

It's >> It's just like working out, losing weight. It's the the answer is really, really simple. You just got to stick to it. Just make that choice and and whatever that reason why is, make it bigger than the discomfort.

>> Yeah. And I think being okay having to do a little bit of extra, you know, on the side or whatever. I mean, we had to get real creative over the past couple years. And there were times we were doing plasma, we were doing, you know, selling things.

We were Yeah, it was just whatever we could do. We were trying to find cuz every little bit just again got us closer to the end. So, >> it's not forever. It's a short period of time if you do it right.

And it's not that it's not that once you're done, you're like, "Oh, that wasn't that bad.

>> The whole family. Yeah. It's uh her side of the family. Our family that's right over here.

They were cheering us on the whole time our time. >> That's great to have. Yeah. Yeah, we've got a lot of family that's uh debtfree, so they're all out of a lot of them are out of debt and so they they were great because they all knew what it felt like and so they were there encouraging us kind of along the way.

So >> go it feels good. Yeah, they knew what it felt like. So that does make a difference and and it's worth it. It's worth it.

You know, I know it's hard, but it's worth it.

>> Yeah. That's that's the kind of cheerleaders you need. Ones that are knowledgeable. Very good stuff. All right. And you brought a couple of the four kids, right? >> We did. Yep. We left two at home.

They're little babies, but we want to bring them up for the debtree scream here. Introduce these fellas to us.

Their names and ages. >> So, this is Oliver, our oldest. He is 7 years old. And this is Everett, five.

>> All right. >> And our two little ones are Lucy, who is almost three. And then Asher, who's almost one. Nice little grown family.

Yep. >> Very fun. Beautiful. Well done, guys.

Proud of you guys. Congratulations. You paid a price to win and you win.

>> Very well done and a great example today on the on the air. Thank you for being with Thank you. >> All right, it's Zach and McKenna, Oliver and Everett. 68,000 paid off in 2 and 12

years, making 117 to 0 to 150. Lots of

overtime, baby. That was the solution.

But now they're free. So count it down.

Let's hear a debtree scream. Ready? 3 2

1 We're debtree.

[Applause] [Laughter] I love it.

>> You know, um those little guys don't look unhappy. They don't look like they've been deprived. No, >> I think they're in good shape. And but they didn't see their dad a lot for the last couple years. >> And so we do get a lot of questions about work life balance.

>> And uh the truth is there is no balance in life. you're going to concentrate what you concentrate on. Some of you have been concentrating so much on hitting the um submit button after you

filled your cart uh on Amazon and you've

been concentrating so much on going on vacations that you couldn't afford and buying cars you couldn't afford and living a life you couldn't afford that now you're going to have to concentrate on something else called work. And work is what's going to get you out. My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke to work.

It works. This work thing. Look at this guy. What a what a stud, man. Pretty incredible. Very well done. This is the

Ramsay Show.

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[Applause]

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[Music]

Our scripture of the day 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come. The old has gone. The new is here. Jordan Peterson

says, "You should be better than you are, but it's not because you're worse than other people. It's because you're not everything you should be." Tracy's in Virginia. Hi, Tracy. How are you?

>> Hello. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I am looking at retiring in about

three years. I currently grow about 130.

I'm estimating low because I gross a little more, but I don't like to work with actual high numbers. Um, so I gross

about 130. I have a about a $10,000 le

debt right now. 3,000 is a loan that my son is paying off because it's his student loan and I told him he had to pay it back. Um 5,000 is from uh

appliances I bought. They're interest free until next year and then 8,000 is

actually on a credit card. Um I'm

looking at whether or not I should and I

have about 12,000 in actual cash. So I'm

trying to decide since I'm close to retirement, is it best for me to

pay off my house? I owe about 360 on it

and the debt and that'll be debtree because the other debts are relatively small and I can pay them off fairly quickly. Or if I should look at uh

supplemental income, I have about 45,000 in uh stocks and mutual funds. I also have IRA and uh two whole life policies.

or if I should um buy a separate buy

another property so that I'll have that as more passive income. I know I'm talking fast. I'm trying to be I'm trying to be respectful of >> Okay, you're you're fine. You're fine, honey. You're doing a good job. So, um real estate is not passive.

>> Okay. >> It's active. I own several hundred

million dollars worth of real estate and it has to be managed. There's nothing passive about real estate. Not even a piece, not even a piece of farmland that you do nothing with except hold the earth together. It's not even passive.

My neighbor called and one of my trees fell on his yard. I ended up having to send somebody over there for that. Not even that's passive. And there's nothing on there but dirt.

>> I can't even get that to be passive. But if you deal with tenants, it's anything but passive. If you deal with water heaters, heat and air, and roofs, it's anything but passive. So, you're going to be actively involved in real estate and you don't have the money to play in the real estate market.

>> Okay? >> You don't have enough money to fool with it. So, >> you have a good income. >> Yeah, you have a good income, but you don't have any money. So, um so let me get this straight. You have 10,000, 3,000, and 8,000. Is that the three debts? >> No, I'm sorry. Um overall, it's about uh

a little more than 10,000. The 8,000 is credit card. Yeah. The 3,000 is >> Your son's supposed to be paying it. No.

>> And then you got the 5,000. >> I'm very He calls me the bill collector.

I make him pay it every month. So he is paying that. And then 3500 is for

appliances. I needed to replace some appliances in my home. >> You said that was five. >> Yeah, I thought you said it was five, too. >> I'm sorry. That is five. I got it written down. I have 3,000 for my son, 8,000 for credit card, 5,000 for the

>> um >> So 16. So 16 clears you.

>> Um, yes. But I the reason why I said three is because I got my little note under here. It started off at five. It's now down to about 3500.

>> Got it. And then you've got 3,000 in cash. >> Cash enough out of your mutual funds and your >> in cash. I have 30,000.

>> Yeah. You need to write a check today and pay off your debt.

>> Okay. >> That's step one. >> Pay that all off. >> That's step one. How old are you?

>> 56. >> And how much is in your IAS and 401ks?

Um, in my IRA I have about 300,000

>> in Yes. >> Okay.

>> Is that in good mutual funds? >> No. No. That's in my That's in my 401k.

I'm sorry. My 401k is 3,000. My IR

>> 300,000.

>> 300,000. Thank you.

>> And you're in That's Is that in mutual funds?

>> Well, it's through my job, so I don't

know. No, it's a 401k. You do know. You

had to select it.

>> You just don't remember.

>> Okay. You need to go find out what that's invested in and make sure it's in good growth stock type mutual funds. We recommend a fourth in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in aggressive growth, and a fourth in international with good long track records. If you're doing that, you should be earning north of 12% in the last several years. Okay.

>> Okay. And because I I do know that they they gave us like these boxes now that you mentioned it, but I don't know what it was. >> Yeah, I want you to go back and double check all that after you listen to this back. It'll be on the podcast and on YouTube. You can listen to it back. Okay. So, it give you all the details.

So, growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international, the fourth in each of those long track records that have over 10% rates of return over the

last decade or so. And you ought to be making well more than that. Okay? So if you're doing that, your 300 without adding adding anything to it will double about every seven years. So you're 56,

at 63 it'll be 600, at 70 it'll be 1.2

million >> if you don't take anything out of it if it just grows. >> I don't take anything. >> I know, but I'm telling you till 70.

Okay. >> Tell us about your whole life policy.

>> Um I have Well, they're for my I got them for my kids. I have two of them.

One for each my son and one for my daughter. Um I want to get one. I just

qualified. I >> What I want you to do is cancel all of them. They're crap.

>> Oh, okay. >> It's the worst financial product on the planet and use that money to build

wealth and leave that to your son and daughter.

>> Okay. >> But this is not a good place to build wealth and dying is not a good way to create an estate.

It doesn't m the the math doesn't work out. >> You're going to have a better rate of return investing that money in the same mutual funds that Dave was just talking about. You're going to have a a higher rate of compounding interest.

>> Yeah. So, >> so I do I do dabble and I do use that

word loosely, dabble in in stock and mutual funds and I have about 45,000 in

that right now. >> Yeah. I I would tell you to sit down with one of our smart investor pros and let's make sure that you're getting 15% of your income going into retirement, cancelling the whole life policies. You can use some of that money to beef up your retirement.

You're debtree because we told you just now, write a check, pay everything off. You've got a good emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses. You're in good shape there. So now all we've got to do is work towards putting 15% of your income away and getting your house paid off.

>> And so if you'll put 15% of your income away and you're in and your current nest egg is invested well, you're going to be in really really good shape at age 65 and you need to be in a paid for house.

So if you move into 65 with a million dollars in a paid for house on top of a paid for house, you're going to be in great shape and that is what you leave your kiddos. >> And you will that will that's where you'll be if you do all the stuff we just outlined. >> And it's so um it's clean. There's you

know what I'm saying? And I'm I'm listening to to everything she said in their stocks and whole life and should I do real estate and >> interest free on the appliances?

>> Yosh.

>> Please don't do that stuff, y'all.

>> No payments until the year 3039.

>> Yeah. And then we're going to back charge you 38% interest through the whole stinking thing because you didn't send in the check just like we told you to in the form we told you to send it in. >> Yeah. It's guys, it's simple. Just keep clean.

Clean and crisp.

>> Simple is best. >> One thing at a time. >> Yeah. Couple of rules on investing. Um, as we've studied millionaires, they all use the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. >> They really do. And they don't put money in things they don't understand.

>> And they're steady and they're not flashy and they don't care what you think. >> Yeah. >> And um that that you know, these are these are attributes of the typical millionaire. And we've studied 10,000 of them. It's in the book Baby Steps Millionaires. The white paper of the research project is in the back of the book. You can read all the detail and you can also read the conclusions we've drawn from the actual study and from 35 years of sitting at this desk helping people become baby steps millionaires.

>> So, she's right on track. She's going to be just fine. A few little adjustments, a little bit of more confidence >> as she steps out these things and not confidence in whole life and not confidence in fooling around with trading stocks and mutual funds. Let's just get in there and start investing. Let's just be that tortoise.

>> Well, that's where the bulk of her money was. >> Yeah. And stay away from there's no reason for you to do real estate. You're not in a position to. You do not have the cash to do it. Uh your cash is all in 401ks and you don't have access to it, right? That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 246. You'll Never Prosper When You're Tied Down With Payments | October 7, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-q1VMc8brE) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:04:51 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George

Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, is my co-host today.

Open Phones at8255225.

[Music] Matthews in Lexington, Kentucky. Hey, Matthew. What's up?

>> Uh, how you doing, sir? Uh, I was told to just get straight to the point. So, um, I lost my job this morning, uh, as a

construction worker. I'm roughly 12 to 14 grand in debt if you count my credit card. Um, I'm on the hunt for a new job

at the moment. I'm just a little lost.

Uh, I was hoping to get a new house by the end of the year and now everything's just kind of been ripped away. So, I was calling to uh kind of see about any advice I can get from you guys. I've been watching for a while. >> Wow.

That's a that's a day that sucks.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah.

>> What happened? How did you get fired?

>> So, I was working in construction and uh

>> Oh, okay. Sorry. Um >> he said it was poor attendance and I've had the job for about 8 months and I've only called in twice. I've never been late. >> Um so I called his boss, the guy,

another foreman that's over him and uh

he said that it was something else, but he doesn't know what it was. So I'm not sure what specifically to do in the situation. Now I'm kind of broke.

What were you uh what what type of work were you doing on the construction site?

>> Uh I was a laborer, so just all the grunt work that they could possibly have.

>> What were you making?

>> So I was promised 27 an hour. I was only

making 22 an hour. Um

>> how long did you work in this place?

Uh roughly seven and a half, eight months. >> Okay. And they never kept their promise

and then fired you and you really don't know why.

>> Yeah.

>> Sounds like wonderful people to be rid of. Um

Wow. But you still got to go get a job like instantaneously, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> I'm guessing you have you have any money in your checking account?

Uh yeah, I've got enough to cover, you know, whatever I have for bills coming up, you know, in the next couple weeks.

>> Okay, good. All right. And you probably got another check coming from them, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, that'll help some. All right. So,

well, I mean, you're right. It's um it's asking a lot to emotionally bounce back in the afternoon from being fired in the morning, but you like you said, you don't have a lot of choices. So, uh, you've got to go get some some work immediately. Um, and so, yeah, I'm going

to go just start visiting construction sites in the area.

>> Well, I also have experience in driving as well. And, uh, the construction industry is just kind of dropping down here a lot compared to >> may have been the actual reason you got fired. Um the uh may have been a layoff

actually, but the um

uh you got a CDL.

>> So I'm partially towards my CDL. I had

uh I was in classes at my other job.

>> What can you do today that involves driving?

>> I can drive a nonCDO vehicle just like everybody else can, but I am one uh

written test away from uh class B CDO.

>> Mhm. And that'll give you a nice raise if you choose to do that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Well, if you especially if you could get somebody to hire you this week based on that one written test coming through in the next couple of weeks. Um and you could get started with them just moving stuff around the lot or whatever else you had to do. Yeah, I think that's a that's not it's not a bad option. Um

and you probably would make more than they were going to pay you even if they had paid you what they promised they were going to pay you and all that. So, um, yeah, I I I think the trick here is there's two two level two ways to think about this. The first way is you got to get off of desperation onto a job and don't even care what it is >> as long as it's legal and moral, you know, as long as you're not hurting someone or yourself, right? And so, um, you know, go go get a something.

I don't care.

um, Target, FedEx, um, you know, we're

going to be in Christmas season before you know it. uh you know driving for Amazon. I don't care >> what you land, but land something immediately because if you have if you know you have enough coming in to eat and to keep the lights on and the rent paid, you will interview differently for the next job.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, the first job is just take anything in desperation that is legal and moral and get to where you know you got food to eat. Are you married?

>> I am. Yes. >> Does she work outside the home?

Yeah, she uh she works in the medical field.

>> What does she make?

>> She makes about $15 to $16 an hour.

>> Not much either. Okay.

>> No. >> All right. But you got But you do have enough to eat that way, right? And so not enough for you to sit on the couch permanently, but you don't have to panic between now and next Friday, right?

>> No. No. >> Okay. So, let's let's get out there and scoot around. Now then once you've landed that next thing where you're eating the second stage is you start figuring out okay what do I want to be in 10 years and what is the steps to get

to be one of those and it needs to be something that makes more money.

>> Yes sir. >> And it's not just for the money but what do you want to be? You know like like mom and dad used to ask when you're growing up. What do you want to be when you grow up?

Right. And uh you know what do you got some passion about? What do you got some talent in? And those kinds of things.

I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. It has a great assessment in it. I want you to take that assessment and start planning out your long-term landing place. But your short-term landing place is anybody that will pay you and you can show up having showered and shaved and brushed your teeth and on time.

Oh, why don't we make it 15 minutes early for the heck of it? And um leave 15 minutes late while you're there and make sure that you're the hardest working dude that they've ever seen during the time that you're there.

that changes everything >> and there's so many you know the economy side gigs right now that you can just literally download an app and get started within an hour >> like what >> I mean I did Instacart last December as a test and literally I downloaded the app made my account and I was on the road and I went you know got groceries for people another one is Uber Eats and Door Dash all of those >> if you showed up at somebody's door with Instagram they had to be freaking Now, >> I mean, I made sure to not actually I left it at the doorstep, but on their camera.

>> The best part was I >> They would have thought they would have thought I didn't pay you. >> Well, I embarrassingly I went to my I didn't realize like this is an an awful uh a street. I I recognized it was my neighbor's house. And I'm like, they're probably looking at the camera going, "Is that George, my neighbor, delivering groceries?

What's going on?" >> That's so funny. >> But I thought I wanted >> You just wanted to see how it worked. >> I wanted to practice what I preached. I tell people, go get these side jobs.

And for a week, I did it in December. And I calculated it. It was about 25 to 30 bucks an hour.

>> We uh we kept it from you.

>> Completely ragged on you for a whole year. >> Now you know why I just shared it.

>> And now I Instagram or Instacart George.

>> Tragedy plus time equals comedy. So I needed to wait long enough to where it was funny. Didn't look desperate. But man, it was I'll tell you, it's a grind out there, Dave, getting people's groceries. I was in the bulk bins at 9:00 p.m. just getting in one pound of rice, measuring it out, going, "This is this is I do I remember the sacrifice. I don't want to relive this again." Literally rice and beans out there. >> And you're doing it for for the show.

>> I thought maybe I can make content out of it, but it was too stressful to even get my phone out and film. I was hustling. >> You look stressed. >> I did. >> A year later. >> I'm still stressed. I'm sweating reliving this. >> So, shout out to everyone sacrificing on their second and third and fourth side hustles.

[Music]

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Leah is in Banganger, Maine. Hi Leah.

How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm great. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm calling seeking advice on how to

best approach home ownership. Um, my husband and I took your financial peace course back when we were engaged. We currently use the Every Dollar app for our budgeting, which has been incredibly helpful. So, thank you for that. And now we are looking at home ownership and trying to figure out how to make that happen. Currently, we do rent for $1,000

a month. And it's really an ideal situation, but we have one baby and we

are hoping to expand our family and so home ownership is ultimately our goal.

>> Good. >> Um, my husband is the only one working.

I'm home full-time. >> Mhm. >> And so that's kind of where the challenge has come in. He brings home roughly $3,000 a month and there is

potential for that to grow over time.

He's kind of new still to the company, so he's starting out and learning the job. But with all that being said, he is

working on picking up some extra hours on his days off. He works four 10-hour days. And so on his two days off, he's looking at picking up some extra work because currently our monthly expenses

do exceed our monthly income by a couple of hundred.

And so that's the challenge. We do have

good savings. We have about 58,000 saved. We have about 16,000 for an

emergency fund. We have no debt and he

does contribute to his 401k, but we just

aren't really sure how to move towards >> How have you done all that on $3,000 a month? >> Um, it started way way before then. Um, I've just always been a diligent saver.

So, from the time I started working, most of my money just went right into savings. >> And then when we got married, >> when you had a baby, you came home. I see. Okay. All right.

>> So, what happens long-term to get his income up to double what it is now?

>> Um, so he does have to take some certifications. He's a technician. Um, so he needs to take classes to get certified as a master tech. That's one way that he'll increase his pay. And then I think also just experience. As he becomes more efficient, he'll be able to work faster because he gets paid by the job and not by the hour or salary.

What's he working? >> So they're What? Uh, vehicles. Oh, he's a Honda tech. >> Okay, good.

>> Yeah, I want to a Honda tech ought to be making more than $36,000 a year. So, he must have just gotten started. And so, he's got Yep. >> Yeah. He's got he's going to have to go to all the classes as fast as he can take them and move up as fast as he can move up uh to get Charles's income up because what you're describing is not a situation where you buy a house. Mhm.

>> Math. The math doesn't work for you, does it?

>> No. And that's what we thought. We were getting advice from other people saying, "Just buy a house. You'll figure it out." The >> Who's going to pay for it? The house fairy.

>> I wish. >> Yeah. I mean, there's not one. Unless you all got them in Maine. We don't have them in Tennessee. You know, >> I haven't found. >> I mean, you have a deficit right now and your rent is only a,000 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. >> And so, this is only a house. It'll all work out. What are you, a congressman?

Who says that? >> Yeah. How are you covering the difference now? Are you guys dipping into your savings? >> Yeah. No, he's working extra.

>> He's taking side hustles. >> Um, he's picking up some extra shifts to

a family friend who's a contractor.

Yeah. >> Well, here's what I want. I I want a career path that leads us to more income, which allows us to buy a home.

>> Okay. >> And that's what answers your question. >> That makes sense. >> That's what answers your question.

>> Yes. So, the the hard truth is that home ownership is not going to happen in the next 6 or 12 months.

>> No, >> it's going to need to get your income up and maybe a bigger down payment and maybe not the house you really wanted.

>> Yeah. You got 58,000 for the down payment, right?

>> Yeah. That's everything we have saved.

>> Yeah. And you're debtree. Well, thank God you're living on a detailed plan because it's allowing you to make it on almost nothing um while you're able to stay at home with the child, which is great. But basically what we've said is we put house on hold while his career develops and then the math will allow us to buy a house. And by the way that's kind of normal unless you know unless you grew up in a generation where when you pushed a button in your hand everything happens automatically. Oh wait yeah you did. Um

so yeah it it doesn't work that way.

It's going to take some time. It's a process and it's a it's got to cook a while. >> Yeah. Well right now you can just doom scroll on Zillow and look at all the things you can't afford. Back in your day, Dave, not to aid you, but the internet didn't exist to go look at every house that's available that you can't have. >> No, we had to go to open houses.

>> Oh. >> And then we would get house fever that way. We had to do it the oldfashioned way. But house fever show up.

>> House fever is highly contagious and it has been among us for several decades.

So, >> just got easier with the digital age.

>> Yeah, you can um Yeah. Well, a lot of addictions are have advanced themselves.

But anyway, yeah, just you take your time, hun. You're going to be okay. You're going to get there. But it the two things do work together and it sounds like you really have a wonderful handle on where you are. Congratulations. Hunter is in New York.

Hi Hunter. How are you?

>> Hi guys. How you doing?

>> Good man. How can we help? >> Taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um yeah, so I'm I'm not too financially

savvy. Um I graduated college in May, so

I just got my first job. Hopefully a long-term career career job. I really like it. What are you doing? How much do you make?

>> I'm uh I'm making 60,000 a year uh before taxes. >> Way to go. What kind of job is this?

>> I'm in It's a sales role. I'm in medical device sales. >> Oh, so you're just starting. Okay, cool.

What's your degree in? >> Yeah, just starting uh business management. >> Good for you. Medical device sales. I know a lot of folk making two bills with it. >> Not their first year. >> That's uh that's why I really I really looked into it. I had to work uh pretty hard to get the job because they don't really hire out of college too much.

>> Yeah. So, you're gonna have to get with it. And really, the 60 is just your first year. You you probably truthfully should double that in almost a year.

>> Really? >> Yeah. If you get with it, assuming I don't know what their product line is or who it is you're talking to or working for, but >> that that's the thing. So, what's your question, sir? You said you're not financially savvy. How can we help you?

>> Yeah. So, I I was just curious what I could be doing um to set some money aside, invest it properly to set myself up for the future. I mean, I have a Roth 401k with my company. Um >> are you are you debt free?

>> Yes. Yes. No debt. >> No student loan debt?

>> No, I athletic scholarship.

>> Good. No car debt.

>> No car debt. >> Good. >> No credit card debt, anything. >> Good for you.

I >> think you're more financially savvy than you think, my friend. Way to go. Yeah, >> just setting yourself up like that is a big win. >> Would you just please stay that way?

If you stay that way, you'll always have some money instead of giving it all to the bank. So, >> because your co-workers are probably going to be driving nicer cars than you and buying houses before you are, and that's going to be tempting. So, don't let that stop you from living on less than you make. Do you have an emergency fund?

>> Yeah.

>> Good. Way to go. So, let's keep building that up a little bit to three to six months of expenses. Are you renting on your own right now or do you got roommates? What's the situation? >> I'm uh I'm still living living with my parents at home. >> Okay. Maybe the next step might be getting your own place.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, definitely. >> And then on top of that, once you got that emergency fund, >> kind of another question I have.

>> When to move out? >> I mean, right now, yeah, when to move out. Like right now, I'm uh living rentree, saving money on food, on all that stuff. Um >> how long you been out of school? I have my own place. >> I got out and then Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I I don't want you

there next May.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, that that's your max.

>> So, you decide when and how, but um start start planning your exit and uh time time to sprout the wings and fly be the eagle that leaves the nest. And of course, by then we'll see what your income trajectory is and that's going to help you as well. Yeah, your Roth IRA is fine. And if you want to start saving even more than that over just in your savings account, build up that emergency fund really thick. That was not a bad idea either. Uh the Roth 401k it works.

Not a bad idea. I'll send you a graduation gift, the copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. And it will walk you through in detail exactly what to do next and next and next and next all the way through. It will take you up through what we call the baby steps here.

And we're going to keep you out of debt into investing. And that's going to be your shortest route moving into wealth. And uh you got a great career field, a lot of upside there. Uh, you're just getting started.

You're asking the right questions. Keep asking lots of questions. Keep working like a crazy man. Hang on.

[Music]

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Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Kylie.

How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. I'm seeking wisdom on how to help um my dad. I don't know what to do. And so I figured I'd call you and maybe you could guide me in the right direction.

My dad is 83, coming up on 83. He has social security. Um he has no retirement, but according to our calculations, um he should have a lot more in the bank than he does. And with a recent diagnosis of onset dementia, we

um are finding that we can't find where his money has gone and we don't know how

to either find it or figure out if he's being scammed or um how to make what he

has left stretch.

>> Wow. So, how much do you think is missing?

>> Okay. Um, we think that there's somewhere between $150 to $175,000

missing.

>> Wow. That's from social security payments that have disappeared.

>> No, he had investments.

>> Well, he sold his house for $400,000 in

2021. He bought himself a $14,000 truck.

He moved across country and bought a $195,000 house. So

roughly we thought he had around 200,000. He's getting $1,500 a month on social security. He told us he put his money that he had remaining left over into two different banks and opened up a

couple checking and savings accounts in those banks. Um but recently we started

getting involved because his electricity would get cut off. He couldn't remember how to pay his electricity bill. We heard that he was paying people money over the phone that he did not have an account with. Like people would just call and say, "Hey, you owe us $500 for a late fee." And he would just pay it.

Um, and then he can't answer simple

questions like, "Who's his cell phone carrier? Who does who does he owe bills to so he can help him straighten it out?" He doesn't know.

>> He doesn't know who the two banks are.

>> He does not. He he thinks he knows where they are, but his stories don't aren't they are not straight. Like he he will tell us that he has an account with US Bank, but then he'll tell us he closed it, but then he tells us it's open, and then he knows he has Wells Fargo. He goes to Wells Fargo every day, but then he can't keep straight.

>> I don't have any money. >> Yeah. Is there a power of attorney been assigned? >> Not yet. No, sir.

>> Uh that needs to happen yesterday. I'm not even sure it'll work now. doesn't sound like he's competent now, but I don't know. Um, >> that means you're taking over financial powers to handle his accounts.

>> Somebody needs to, >> okay, >> desperately. >> Okay. >> I mean, he's not even sure what day it is and what cell phone carrier and that kind of stuff. He does not need to be handling his money. Okay. Then, how do we find a lost 175,000? I really don't

know is the answer. Do you have any kind of a paper trail or an electronic trail of any kind?

We are digging through stacks of of

bank notices that we have found um in

his house. >> Yeah. >> Have you checked his email? >> Find it there.

>> I have not yet. That's a great idea.

>> I'd be going through everything. Digital, physical, >> calling banks. Looking for debit cards attached to those banks.

>> Okay. >> I mean, it's possible. It's possible he's been scammed out of it. It's also possible it's sitting over there in US Bank, but you don't have any access to it without a power of attorney.

>> Okay? >> You can't walk over there and ask him if I have an account either. They won't let you. It's against federal privacy laws.

>> Okay? >> So, I mean, but you if you got a power of attorney, you can go on his behalf and do it. And y'all need to do that yesterday.

>> Okay? >> Like 6 months ago yesterday. Um, but go do it today. Do not let this I mean 48 hours, kid, right now. Go get it done.

And um so then you can start to inquire with these people because otherwise they're going just going to shut you down. >> I mean just like if you called up and ask where George bank, they're not going to tell you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So but if you go here's the power of attorney's copy of the power of attorney. He's 82. He's got onset and I'm trying to find some money that's lost. Do you what do you have an account there? Okay. What's the balance? What's the account number? And then you just start tracking everything down that you can. If you reach a complete dead end on

all stacks of paper and all email and

text and anything else you can get a hold of, if everything has run to ground and you still haven't found it, you could go to our local uh our endorsed

local provider for taxes, our tax ELP.

They probably can make you a re a recommendation of a uh a forensic

accountant. And a forensic accountant is someone who knows how to dig through those things and try to find a trail maybe that you didn't see and trace back

through. Um, if he's been scammed, I don't know where

you'll be, but in the meantime, y'all are taking care of him anyway. So, >> I would think of every professional he's interacted with, CPAs, accountants, tax pros, real estate. I mean, if there was a real estate transaction, that money was wired somewhere. And maybe you can go to the title company that handled the wiring and figure out where it went and that might give you some clues at least.

>> Yeah. Which which account did that go into? And then if you find that account, you can go from there. Where did it go from that account on this transferred every account of every touch point do a full audit on it.

And I want to see a full list of every transaction for the last seven months or since he sold the house. And what we're trying to do is follow that 175 or that 150 around that extra equity around because we do know he bought two things, but he should have somewhere around 150 left, give or take. And yeah, find out where it went. That's a good thing, George.

Go to the closing and see where that money went and then do an audit there. Find out where it went from there. Then find out where it went from there.

You're going to have to have power of attorney to do all that though. Um, and you're just going to have to run it to ground. The big thing is is everybody is no longer in denial. We have a power of attorney and he is shut down and he's not allowed to do any more transactions at all.

He does no access to any accounts because people are calling him up and he's giving people 500 bucks and then y'all are having to put 500 bucks over there to feed him. So, they're stealing money from you is who they're stealing money from.

and he doesn't want you to. You don't want to admit that your dad is finally at that stage, but here we are. The longer you stay in denial, the more checks are going to be written to bad people. And so, you guys have really got to shut this down hardcore fast just because he's getting screwed over if he hadn't already lost 150 grand.

>> Yeah. I feel like we're getting more and more calls of people getting scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars because they're just, you know, they pray on the elderly. >> Exactly. >> They pray on people who, you know, who mentally can't handle this and don't know if it's a scam. Colin in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey Colin, what's up?

>> Hey Dave and George. Thanks uh first and foremost for everything you guys do. Um really helpful content. Thank you.

>> But to be direct and yeah, of course. Um my question is this. My wife and I I'm almost certain we're on baby step seven.

We're totally debtree including the mortgage. And to your guys' point, the peace of mind uh is amazing with that.

Um but with that being said, we're in a two bed, one bath currently. It's myself, my wife, and a year and a half old daughter. I also work from home as well. Uh so things are starting to feel a little cramped. And although need is a pretty strong word, I do think that we're inching toward a need for additional space. And so I'm I'm kind of

battling or or going through the pros and cons of having another mortgage and upgrading the space versus kind of remaining cramped and having that uh piece every month of not having. What do >> you guys make? What do you make? Uh >> we we make about uh 225 as a household.

>> So how much can you bank a year?

Um, right now we're we're investing in 15% and and saving about six grand a month.

>> Okay. All right. And so what's your current home worth?

>> It's worth 250. I I think >> What's the target What's the target home? >> How much is the target home? >> Probably 500.

>> 500. >> 500. So you need 250. >> 500K.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, there's two ways to do it. One is take out a small mortgage.

Um, and two is, uh, we'll move in 2 and 1/2 years and we're going to save $100,000 a year because we don't borrow money anymore. That would be Sharon's my only option cuz we don't borrow money for anything ever.

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Mark in England. We are retired, mortgage free, and financially stable with no debt except our credit cards. We buy what we need on a credit card that gives us points, which we use to pay for clothes, food, etc.

We then take that credit card debt and put it onto a long-term interest free credit card for a period of 12 to 34 months, only paying the minimum balance each month. At the same time as the start of the 0% deal, we put an equal amount into a savings account that pays us 7% interest. At the end of the 0% term, we pay it off from the savings and then keep the interest earned to pay for travel or a large cash purchase. We've been doing this for 10 years with no interest incurred.

Cash back to us has been six grand plus 8 grand earned in interest from the savings.

>> Cuz it's exhausting. Number one, >> this is how you lost the Revolutionary War right here.

>> Zinger. >> Oh my god. >> Take that red coats. >> Unbelievable.

The mental calories needed has got to be worth something. Your time is worth something. >> And here's what's ridiculous. We don't we do not know the dollar amounts, >> but what it took to get >> if you took I mean, what could you what

could we talk about? 50,000 bucks and you run it through all of those ringers.

When you get done, you got enough money to buy a biscuit.

I mean, there's no money involved here.

This is a It's like a math riddle for a sixth grader and you fell for every bit

of it. Um I think you need a hobby.

Really? This is like exhausting. So, uh,

the problem with all this is is you have set up a a house of mirrors, a house of traps, and you have figured out how to No, you

know, I'm trying to remember what what's the thing where the kid where the uh people um the the ninja thing where they go through all the um American Ninja Warrior. Yeah, like you're an American Ninja or the English ninja warrior >> for credit cards. So, you've got this full obstacle course laid out and you

know how to do it, but if you miss one handhold, you're in the water. If you if

you jump just wrong, you're going to turn your ankle and be on your head. And so, that's exactly what this is like a it's like an obstacle course. It's like you did a treasure hunt with an obstacle course in your backyard and you're 12 years old. Um, no. Uh, and it's not worth the money if you actually add up the actual dollars that you're benefiting from all these girrations.

It's so small. It's it's almost makes you want to giggle. Like really, if you just gone and done like work or something while you spend all this money, I mean, all this calories on on

this chasing your tail all over the place and trying to somehow beat the credit card company, you'd actually have some money. Um, so no, no, no. Uh, and

and also, Mark, let me tell you this. We have not done a study in uh the UK, but

we have done the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America.

We studied 10,167 of them. 89% of them,

nine out of 10, are first generation rich, meaning they started with nothing and they became millionaires. The number

of those self-made millionaires starting

from nothing that became a millionaire

working a system that remotely looks like yours is precisely zero out of 10,167.

Not one said they played the airline mile game,

the high yield savings versus repay old

credit card and 30 days out and back and forth girration game. And that's how I made my million dollars. Dave, not one.

Not uno, not one.

None.

Zero proof text that your system causes

wealth building. Zero. There's zero humans we have found that your system made rich. Zero. None. Was that unclear?

>> I think that's as clear as mud right there, Dave. Well, the key is he the fallacy is that he wouldn't be financially stable without this. You've become financially stable in spite of the credit card game. You decided that we're not going to have a mortgage anymore.

Well, why would you do that when you can make a spread on that? I mean, you can, you know, reverse engineer this logic and just stay in debt the rest of your life if you think you can outsmart it. Uh, but clearly you value a debt-free life and I think this credit card game is costing you more than you think. And here's a good test for one year.

Use your own money and see if you don't save more than you have doing this credit card churning arbitrage. >> Well, here it is. The numbers actually on here. I got tired before the end of the email, but it's on here.

Cash back to us has been $6,000 uh plus interest earned from the plus 8,000 from the interest earned.

Oh my god. >> Yeah, that's over a 10-year period.

>> You made $1,400 a year doing this? It's worse than I thought.

$1,400.

I mean, dude, how hard is it to make

$1,400 in England?

you really have done taken a lot of risk and played with a lot of bear traps hoping not to get your arm ripped off by a bear trap in order to make 1,400 a

year.

And and here's the other thing, George.

A guy that writes us an email that says this, the chances of him not doing it anymore or zero. He's going to keep doing it. >> Yeah. He just wanted to, I guess, brag about how amazing >> or want to be the subject of the latest Ramsay meme.

I don't know. But um uh that it's a bad choice, dude. But the uh uh yeah, part of the entertainment value of this show is uh you watch other people do something so stupid that you're entertained by it. And um that that's sometimes why people watch this show or listen to the show.

Sometimes they do it to learn from what we're teaching here. And then other times it's just human beings are entertaining and it's >> entertainment value. >> I think you just fell in the second bucket. All right.

Hey Daniel, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um, me and my wife are currently on baby step two and we're strongly considering selling our car. Now, the thing is, uh, we have one unreliable car, and this car is, uh, kind of our,

you know, put the kid in the car, make sure it's safe. Um, yeah, we're just wondering if, uh, we should sell it and maybe even potentially have my stay-at-home wife go work part time.

Okay. What do you make, sir?

>> I make about 144,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you own the good car?

>> Uh 29,000.

>> Okay. All right. And the the car that's

not reliable is worth what?

>> I'd say maybe a,000 bucks.

>> Uhhuh. Okay. So, probably somewhere between there is a reliable car, isn't there?

>> Yeah.

What could you sell the good one for?

You owe 29 on it. >> Um, I owe 29 on it. We could probably sell it for around um 30 31 32.

>> Okay. And you don't you have any money saved at all?

>> Um, so we have the emergency fund saved, >> the one the $1,000 starter emergency fund. >> That's correct. >> Okay, good. And what else?

>> Um, well, that's about it. And then the rest we're just paying off debt right now. >> Good for you. Okay. So, you have a $29,000 car debt. What other debt do you have? >> Uh just student loans. We have zero credit card debt. The student loans equate to about uh 70ish

uh 75.

>> Okay. All right. And so you got $100,000 in debt. You make 100,000.

>> Yeah. >> And you live in New York City.

>> Yeah. Just uh just very close. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Um, expensive area

though.

>> Yeah. So, we're actually lucky because our parents own a house and uh we're actually renting with them. Um, so we're

we're not paying as much as we as the normal person would pay here. >> Okay. That's good news. Okay. Well, here's the thing. If you guys can get out of debt and keep the car within two years, I'd be okay with you keeping it.

I don't think you can. I think that'd be too tough.

That'd be $50,000 a year on debt and somebody's going to be making some more money. You or her one. What could she make working part-time?

>> So, she has an English degree and she before she became a stay-at-home mom, uh she was an English teacher. >> Yeah. Why does she do tutoring for 45 bucks an hour?

>> We we were we were thinking about that as well. >> Yeah. That's not even a part-time job. You're just doing that from home. I mean, she can tutor 45 bucks an hour and work 10 hours a week and all of a sudden now we got some serious money coming in.

That's um yeah, I'm going to do something like that for sure. And then you pick up what you can pick up and then if you can keep the car, fine. But I'm probably going to get rid of it and and get me about a $10,000 paid for car.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, number one best-selling author and uh Ramsay personality is my co-host today. Rex is in Los Angeles. Hi, Rex.

How are you?

>> I'm good, thanks.

>> All right. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Uh, so we're not on the steps yet.

We've just, my wife and I just started reading you and listening to your stuff.

We've got a bunch of debt, a lot of credit card debt, some student loans we took over for my daughter. Um, other stuff, a car loan, mortgage. We've also got a lot of uh money and investments.

And if we're going to do this, should we just take that money and the investments and pay that stuff off or should we do the work to to pay that down out of my

salary?

>> Is that taking an easy way out to just pay it off? That's the gist of the question. >> Yeah, it's a good question. It's a fair question. Um, how much debt do you have not counting your home?

>> Uh, including the car loans, everything

167,000. Mhm. And how much in the brokerage account?

>> Uh 844.

>> None of that is retirement.

>> No, we have an additional 401k that's about 85,000.

>> Okay. What was this account for?

uh the brokerage account for half of it was uh was when my dad died, we got an

inheritance and the other half is just investment sort of just making money for retirement. >> Mhm. Okay, good. Except it's not in a retirement account.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And what do you make a year?

>> About 175.

>> Good for you. And what do you owe on your home?

Uh 776.

>> Okay. All right. Well, Rex, the um

the the thing that we teach and you guys have to decide as a couple if you're

going to buy into that in order for the answer to your question to make sense.

Okay. The thing that we teach and believe and we've proven to be true over 30 years of doing this is that when someone can get out of debt and stay out of debt and live on a detailed plan that the both spouses are in agreement to where the money's going and you've done a great job saving money.

>> I mean, you're millionaires. You've done a great job saving money.

>> We got lucky on some of it.

>> Yeah, maybe. But I mean, you some some of it was an inheritance, but overall, I mean, you've not done you've not done uh horrible or anything like that. I mean, you've done a good job. So, now you got to ask yourself the question of what is the shortest distance between where I am

with money and where I want to be? And

we have found that the people that build the most wealth are those that get out of debt, stay out of debt, and live with a plan. Okay? Because when you don't have any payments, you're, you know, all your money is not going to stupid card loans and so forth. You can do stuff with it. Now, if you can do that and

commit to that and you're both in agreement to that and you get out the Every Dollar app or something like that and you say, "Okay, this is our plan and uh we're not going to buy anything else ever on debt

because we believe the shortest distance between where we are in wealth is no debt." And so once we pay this debt off, we will never be in debt again

ever for any reason. Not a big enough emergency, not a big enough need, not a big enough I got car fever, nothing.

Unless I pay cash for it, I'm not doing it. If you're willing and able both of you, to commit to that, then yeah, writing a check and paying it all off is not cheating. The problem is if you don't have that level of commitment like this pinky square spitshake contract, right, >> that we're never doing it again,

you'll do it again. And next time you won't have any savings because you will have paid off all your other mistakes with the savings.

>> And I don't want you going I don't want you to not change your habits. So, if your habits are permanently changing, you know, you can make a lot of money doing this, but if they're not permanently changing, it would be a vast mistake cuz you'll res, you know, the the recidivism rate is crazy on this stuff. >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, we've already done this with the credit cards. The problem is we didn't get rid of the credit card, so we just racked them back up again. >> Tada.

I rest my case, counselor. Yes.

>> Yeah. So, yeah. So, that sort of leans toward try to pay it off, >> you know. Well, or or you know, you've for your sake, it doesn't matter to George and me, but for your sake, you two >> adults have to become convinced that we're never going back.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And there's going to be pain either way. To watch that money leave that brokerage account is going to be painful. To sacrifice for two, three years is going to be painful to pay it off. >> Yeah. And the fact that you did this thing with the credit cards tells you I you know maybe um maybe we get on a

strict budget and we aggressively attack the debt and pretend like the brokerage account is not there for 5 months or 6 months and let's prove it to ourselves that we're through.

>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

>> How old are you?

>> Uh 53.

>> Okay. Well, it's time.

>> And and you picked up your daughter's student loans that she took out in her name or what? Yeah. When she got married, uh, we Yeah. We just sort of just took those over for for them.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I I would, you know, I

either way I'm going to be out of debt very very quickly with $175,000 income.

But, um, by quickly I mean a matter of months. And so, um, you know, but but

you guys have to become convinced. Um, you don't have to be in pain

to never go back. You just have to be committed to never go back. It's not

necessary that um I've got a friend who

was a a heroin addict and he went

through rehab and it changed his life and he met God and him and Jesus are best friends and man, he don't he stays away from but his kids don't have to go through that to learn the lessons that he's learned. They can observe someone else and go, I don't want to do what my dad did. And the dad can look at his kids and go, I don't want you doing what I did. You know, that's and so you don't have to go through pain to learn.

It's not necessary.

have to go down the gauntlet and be hit with straps and whips and or whatever to to prove and no, you don't. That's masochistic. We don't need to do that.

But uh but you do have to be committed to never going back because otherwise it's it's pointless. Yeah, >> you're going to be and you're going to end up in worse condition. >> If you guys agree, we're going to cut up the cards and close all these accounts.

We're going to freeze our credit so we it's much harder to go back into debt.

Then I would say, "All right, let's use these funds." You know, you might pay some capital gains taxes on on the growth, but you're going to clear the decks and be in a different place by Christmas. And now you can you freed up all those payments to now invest and give more and, you know, live life with a little more freedom and peace. So I think begin to start working down that mortgage at that point, you know, and you need to start putting your ex excess savings when you get to baby step four in a retirement account in a Roth, not in just a brokerage account.

The amount of money you're losing there in taxes is incredible. So >> yeah, that brokerage account is for you've maxed out all retirement options and we have nowhere else to go but non-retirement investing, >> right? But you he's not got that problem with this income. So, no, you you can you can get there.

Temporarily stop all investing, all saving, and for 6 months, we're going to go at this thing hard. We're going to open up an Every Dollar app. Both me and mom are going to get on it. We're going to get the credit cards out, have a plastic surgery party, light a candle.

Uh we're done. We're not doing this anymore. And uh we're 53 years old. We

make too much money, be this stinking broke, and have I'm sitting here with car payments, and I make 175 grand.

That's just God. That's got to be disgusting. So get disgusted

in a reasonable way and permanently change your behavior and then you got no problems. [Music]

If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fair Winds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just

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[Music]

top questions people have about wills.

How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? If your estate is worth less than 1 million, getting a will online is probably a great option for you. By the way, matter of fact, if your estate's worth less than 10 million, it's probably enough. You don't have any need for trusts much until you get up above that, unless you've got a special needs or something like that. Number two, most often question, what what do I need to start my will online? Uh making a will

online or not involves a couple of decisions. Who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your kids? And who do you want to make decisions for you if you're incapacitated?

Is an online will legally valid? Of course. By the way, wills are statep specific? The uh laws that dictate

estates are not federal law. They are state law. And so when you move, you need a new will because your state may have different laws than the old state where you lived. And so different levels, different kinds of notary, different numbers of witnesses, different things you can do or can't do in a will, all that kind of stuff. So why would I want an online will versus a traditional one? Less expensive, more convenient, takes about 20 minutes to set up. If you go to Mama Bear Legal Forums, go to ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz,

you can find out if an online will is right for you and we'll work you through the whole process. Jamie's in New York, New Jersey. Hi Jamie. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going Dave? Uh, pleasure to speak with you. >> You, too. How can we help?

>> I'll try to be as brief as possible. I have a job. Um, on paper it looks like

the the dream job. I work for a large pharmaceutical bioharmaceutical company here in New Jersey. one of the top uh private pharmaceutical companies. Uh I make good money. I make $46 an hour.

There's unlimited overtime, pension, 401k.

But when I started, we have a union here and it's a big campus. So it's a, you know, pretty large facilities on site.

And because it's a union, I had to ended up going to a department that I really didn't have a lot of experience in because I was low man on the seniority totem fold. So I ended up in a power in a place where I don't really have a lot of experience dealing with boilers and components um servicing different components that go to the boilers uh systems. And from day one my manager

he never uh took any initiative to make sure that I get I got fully trained up pairing me with other um team members.

Basically we I have no manager. All he does is come in in the morning and ask everybody if they want overtime and he goes away. And I've tried to uh reach

out to a lot of my co-workers, a lot of the older senior guys who've been here for years, but the environment is so toxic. I'm the only minority on the team. And I feel like since I've been here for almost two years now, I can tell that they are purposely excluding me from all of the the serious jobs. The jobs that I do that they leave to me that nobody else wants to do is something that I can do in my sleep, you know. And um I can

actually sleep at work. The job is I have like I said everything on paper is good. They have a building here with a couch on the third floor. A lot of times I'm in that building on the third floor sleeping. Uh I'm in different buildings uh looking at the computer like I like I actually have time to wait to meime your

soul is rotting.

>> Yes sir. >> Yeah. >> That's an expensive soul tax.

>> Yeah. So are have you been looking for something new?

>> Yes sir. I have an interview tomorrow for another large pharmaceutical company here in New Jersey and I know what I don't want and um I guess I I really answer my own question, but I know you deal with this type of thing on a daily basis. So, I really wanted to get an expert like your like you your opinion because I know it holds a lot more weight than probably even my own opinion on this topic. Very few very few people are actually happy doing nothing or being underutilized.

Most people their their spirit, your

your uh relationships, everything is invigorated by reaching for the stars. We are designed by our

creator to create and be productive.

And when we're not doing that, it is a soul tax. It takes attacks on your soul.

And so that's what you're discovering.

And so this idea that if I got paid for doing nothing and sitting around doing nothing is somehow a wonderful thing.

It's not really wonderful at all. It's really horrible.

>> I agree. And >> and so I agree with you that Yeah. But I I don't think you have to, >> you know, you don't have to run out the door. They're not burning the building down. There nobody in danger. There's they're not uh being mean to you. Um it

could be racial. It could just be that they're just being union jerks, you know, and I don't care. It doesn't matter to me which one it is. I'm still getting out of there.

>> I think it's a little bit of both. I remember one of my >> coworkers. I'd say I'd say you're probably right. >> That's probably true. >> He made a remark about knuckle draggers.

I hope they hire some more techs. They keep hiring these knuckle draggers.

>> Yeah, but that's not a racial thing. That's just That's just a caveman.

Knuckle drager is just a dumb person that doesn't know anything. It's just a caveman. So, um, you know, but I, you

know, either way, it doesn't matter. You, you've solved the problem. The ri the riddle is I got to go. But what I don't have to do is go running out the door and make $20 an hour while I'm making 46 right now. So, I'm going to sit here for a minute, no pun intended,

and uh, look for a job, right? Instead of sleeping on the couch, I'm gonna be looking for a job.

>> Right. That's what I've been doing today, the last couple weeks. Every day, I update my search. Yes. And and I you know I don't know if you fell if you fell backward into being a boiler guy or if that was what you intended to do.

>> What is it you really want to be 10 years from now?

>> If you could do anything you wanted to do, what would you do?

>> Validation equipment validation and qualification. >> Okay. So you you enjoy engineer >> you enjoy and you're good at working with your hands and you can in your mind you can see how things work and how they're put together.

>> Yes, sir. >> Very good. I like it. Well, Ken Coleman would like what you're saying. Mike Row would like what you're saying. I think you can make a lot of money, >> but you're not gonna make a lot of money if you're dragging your knuckles. Right.

>> Exactly. >> And so, and you're not going to have you're not going to come home energized.

See, I come home from doing this. Uh I I'll do about five and a half hours on the microphone today. Different podcasts and different things I've got to do inside the building today. And uh I'm 65 freaking years old and I come home energized because I'm doing stuff that matters, stuff that I care about and I'm pushing the edge.

I'm having to use every every ounce of everything that I am to make sure I help you guys, give you the right answers, all that kind of crap. And so yeah, hang on. We'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

>> Yeah. >> It's just out of reach. It's funny because it's almost worse when you're paid well to do it because you go, "Well, I'm an idiot to leave this." >> No, you're an idiot to stay because if you're not treated well, you're undervalued, you're bored, there's no growth plan. Like Dave said, eventually your soul's going to pay the price for it.

And so, uh, we believe that you can do the work you're wired to do and get paid well to do it. And naturally, you're going to grow in that area because they're going to see your enthusiasm and your talent, your excellence. So, we're rooting for you, man, to get to that next thing. It's a pretty crazy world when you just show up and care and work hard all day long and that makes you stand out.

You don't even have to be that good. You just got to care, have brushed your teeth, and work hard all day long. >> Just showing up in good hygiene goes a long way.

>> That's what I've done at least. >> It's the world. Well, it's working for you. Your hair is great. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> But the uh uh >> I wanted to say I wish I could say the same, BUT IT WAS TOO SOON. TOO SOON. OH,

all the hair jokes go all the way around the horn before they stop. Huh. Okay, I like it. Seriously though, the the

striving for excellence, the striving to

do to reach a level you've never reached before is what gives life to you.

>> And so, anytime someone's just sitting

and listen, things are either growing or they're dying. There's no in between.

And so this job, Jamie, that you got is going to get worse. It's not going to get better. It's dying. It's going off the cliff, right?

>> They made it clear. >> Yeah. It's pretty ridiculous what he's describing. And I don't think he's being weird.

I think he's probably got a pretty clear pretty clear action of what's going on there. So, yeah, I'm, you know, I set a goal that within a within 6 months to a year, I've gotten a better job making $52 doing something where the people respect me, I respect them, and we have to work really, really hard while we're there.

Yikes. >> Jeez, >> that scares me. That's what's happening in pharmaceutical companies in America.

>> Well, this apparently the maintenance team in the building at the far he's working on the boy >> union workers >> still. It's just the whole thing is Wow.

[Music]

Turning down.

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Christopher and Britney are with us. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Well, Dave, >> welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> We're from Sacramento, California.

>> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Yeah.

>> And how much debt have you guys paid off? We >> paid off about 412,000.

>> All right. How long did that take?

>> 28 months.

>> 28. >> All right. Very good. And your range of income during that two and a half years?

>> So, we started at 215,000. We went up to

350,000 and now we've gone back down to

250. So, I can be part-time and stay at home with our newest baby. >> Love it. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I do um plumbing. So, I work for a general contractor. Mhm. >> plumbing contractor. I did HVAC too for about 20 years. >> Wow. Cool. >> Yeah. >> And I'm a nurse, a nurse educator and train new nurses. >> Gotcha. What kind of debt was the 412,000?

>> Everything. Student loans, kids braces, personal loans, time shares, phones, taxes, all the things.

>> Wow. Everything. Mortgage, too, or >> Nope. Still got a mortgage. We're in California. We got a little while, but we're next. >> And now you're free, though. 412,000 worth of normal. Yes.

>> Wow. How long y'all been married?

>> Uh gosh, what year? Almost a few years.

>> Yeah. Three and a half years. We started just before our wedding. So, um we had some great dates. >> So, you both brought crap into this.

>> Yes. Absolutely. >> And so, you've been married three and a half. And you say, "All right, job one, we're cleaning up the mess." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Not living like this.

>> Get a fresh start. >> Yeah. We had a really hard time with a lot of car problems, deaths in the family, different things. And it just pushed us to a point where we were like having to borrow our kids' cars while we had one sitting in the driveway need a new transmission. And so we were just like trying to figure out how do we get out of this and change their >> We make We make too much money to be this broke. >> Absolutely. >> What was the bulk of the 412?

>> Uh student loans probably about a hundred or so. Some old stuff we had from previous marriages. Another couple hundred. So wow.

>> A lot of money. >> Was it just like collecting collecting to where you just went like I'm in denial at this point? Yes. >> It was like what's another three grand for braces on top of that?

Exactly. It was zero, you know, 0% for braces and so we didn't, you know, pay outright. And then when we were able to pay it off, it was just, I mean, trying to call to pay it off. They don't let you call and pay it off.

I don't know if you know, it takes six to seven times to call and Oh, yeah. You know, say, "We need to get your >> convince them to take your money." >> Yeah. It was really rough the last month and a half, I'll tell you. >> They like you owing them money.

Who knew? Who knew? >> Wow. Very cool, you guys. Very cool.

>> So, how did you get connected to the Ramsay stuff? >> Nah. So, I learned about you back in 2009 when my youngest son was born. He's 15. And um I mean, we've heard we did

FBU. You know, I talked to you on the show before I went to nursing school to talk about should I go to the Air Force, student loans, what do I do? And then I became a single mom. And so, when I did that, you know, I said, "Okay, I'm going to have to take student loans." Because I figured I knew better than you did.

You know, we were Daveish for a while.

And then, uh 28 months ago when we got our wedding and we both just said enough is enough. And so we did a couple more FPUs at home, downloaded Every Dollar and we have not done a month without every dollar for the last 29 months. So >> Wow, that's incredible. >> So it's been you've been aware for like 16 years, but life kept happening. Yes.

And so when you guys got married, you were like, I know just the guy.

>> Yes, you did. We had spreadsheets of all the different debt we had and it was a long list. >> Scary. >> No more spreadsheets. I hope you've deleted the Excel.

>> So Christopher, you knew when you were getting married you were getting into this, right? >> Oh, yeah. But I knew she was worth it.

So, it made it worth. >> Correct answer. >> Yes. >> Not into this all the debt mess, but into this I'm gonna go hardcore together. Yes. Yeah. She worked her butts off. She worked her butt off to get a lot of the debt done. >> A lot of side hustles. >> Yeah. I bet. I bet. Well, congratulations you guys. We're very proud of you. How's it feel to be free?

>> Yeah, it's a relief.

>> Um, so the main thing is we're just going to focus on not getting back into debt. And so it's just saving and saving. If we want to take a nice vacation, then we have either we have the cash to do it or we're not doing it.

So we're we're definitely on the same page on that. >> I love it. I love it. Well, congratulations. All right. When someone says, "How do you pay off $412,000 in 28 months?" That's stinking impressive. What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is?

>> Budgeting. Working >> every dollar for 29 months. Yeah.

>> Every dollar. Yeah. Making sure every dollar has a name. We logged our kids in. They have their own every dollar.

And you know, make sure that you know where your money's going and make sure that you understand the principles of it so that way you don't ever do it again.

>> Yeah. We're teaching them to go through college deer, too, because of you.

>> Yeah. >> Two in college, working three jobs each, you know, working their way through college and one about to go and they've all paid cash for their cars and I'm impressed by them and how well they've done. >> Wow. Very cool. You really have changed your family tree. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah, we say more is caught than taught and they've been watching mom and dad just hustle to get rid of this debt.

It's like, well, there there's work ethic right there. They're catching that for sure. What was the hardest thing to cut out of the budget or the biggest thing you guys cut to make this happen so quickly? >> We were talking about that last night.

So, I refuse to give up kids sports for them because it was such a big thing for them. So, we'd actually argue about golf and instead of doing like a big golf round, we do a little golf round and we, you know, the grocery budget. I hear people talk about how much they spend. We're a family of eight and my budget's $1,200.

So, >> wa >> that's pretty good. >> Well, some of it that's for Great Dane dog food, too.

>> Yes, we have the Great Dane puppies.

>> That thing can eat. That's for sure. >> We have three. >> Oh my goodness. They eat more than the kids. Wow. That's incredible.

>> Costco. >> Yeah. Very cool, you guys. Very cool.

So, the budget is the deal. And eating it and you're you must be cooking a lot from scratch. >> As much as I can. >> Yeah. Which as a nurse, you know how good that is, right? the nutrition value and everything else >> completely different. >> So, well, way to go you guys. Way to go.

And you brought all of them with you to celebrate. All right, bring them up. Let's hear all the names and ages.

>> Come on in. >> Have a big celebration here. The family tree family tree has changed.

>> Bana's 19. We have Payton's 19. Memphis

is about to be 18. Jackson's 15. Ava's

13. And we have Noah, who's eight months. >> Way to go, Noah. You did it, man. You joined the clan, buddy.

I love it. >> So cute. Beautiful. >> Very cool. All right. Christopher and Britney and the gang from Sacramento, California. $412,000

paid off in just 28 months. They were working like crazy people living daily on a budget eating at home. $215,000 to

$350,000 income. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> YAY.

LOVE IT.

>> And the kids are going to school debtree and they're paying for their cars debtree and family trees changed.

>> That's impressive. And at this age they they saw the sacrifice. So they're going, "Yeah, I'd like to avoid that.

>> Yeah, I don't I think I'll avoid that." >> And yet they survive the sacrifice of mom and dad for two years. A lot of people say, "Well, you know, I don't want to I don't want to affect the kids." like maybe it should affect the kids so they don't fall into the traps that we fell into. >> Yeah. Well, they they did it.

I mean, they pulled it off. And um here's the thing. What what you saw if you're watching them and if you go back and watch this, you can pull it up on YouTube if you or or Spotify where you can see the video, either one. And what you what you'll see is you'll see their body language and it just says, "I've had it.

Not living like this anymore." They're just very resolute >> about that we're going to do this. we're not going to go back. We're never going to be there again.

And they got second marriages they're going into. And they finally just said, "Okay, that's it. We're pulling the plug on stupid. >> Let's clear the dicks." >> Yep. >> That's a beautiful thing. And it's never too late. That's That's impressive.

>> Yeah. And don't tell me if you got a bunch of kids you can't do it. Don't tell me if you live in California, you can't do it. >> They just proved you wrong. >> All these all these things is like hold my beer, right? So you can do it. You can do it. But it it came down to I mean

you could just tell looking at Britney. Britney put in some hours as a nurse. I mean and look at these numbers with the income dropping off. You can see that uh that her the number of hours she was working as a nurse to cause this to happen. And oh by the way just had a baby and oh by the way you know and oh

there's every excuse in the world but none of them mattered. They still went and paid off $412,000 in just 28 months.

>> I mean you blink in 28 months is going to go by. So the question is, do you still want to be in $400,000 of debt 28 months from now or do you want to just decide that today's day one of a journey

of 28 months? >> Yeah. But I mean, the matter you get, the deeper you cut.

>> The more resolute you are, the deeper you cut and then the faster you get out.

And then the higher the probability is that you make it and you stay out. The faster you get out, the deeper, the deeper you cut, the faster you get out and the higher the probability is you get out to start with and then stay out.

All of those things fit together and everything we've seen over the last 30 years in doing this and they've got all of it. That's this family of winners right here for sure. >> Very impressive.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[Music]

Hey, if you're a business owner or a leader in small business and you've got a question about running your business, about leadership, how to lead the team, manage the money, grow without going crazy, family business questions, I'll take your call personally. I do a top

rated podcast on small business and leadership called Entree Leadership and you can call us. Here's the number. You be part of that show 84494410708449441070

or you can head over to entreeleership.com/ask and drop us a note there. We'll call and set you up as a caller on the Entree Leership podcast. Ryan is with us. Ryan

is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Ryan. How are you?

>> Good. Good afternoon, Dave. Thanks for uh uh taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So, question is is I am being told by my

ex-wife that I should cash out my 401k

to purchase a home. And uh the reason being is uh when we divorced about 8 years ago or so, um she she basically

took half my 401k and parlayed that into

purchasing a home. um five years later sold that home for a good profit. And so

now uh and then and and then bought another one. And so uh she's saying, "Hey, you know, you need to get out of stock renting and you should really put

that some of that money into uh real estate." >> I'm so confused.

>> Why would anyone ask their ex-wife for

financial advice?

Well, I saw what uh I saw what she had done with uh >> No, you didn't. You saw what she said she did.

>> When she cashed out half of that 401k, she got charged a 10% penalty plus her tax rate. She borrowed this money at 35% interest. By the time she flipped this house and made money, she didn't even make money.

She's so full of crap. She's a Christmas turkey.

>> You know, because I I see that uh you know, with the house that that that was purchased and sold. I mean, >> you didn't see all the penalties and taxes she paid on the stupid withdrawal from the 401k that negated any profit that she made on the flip.

>> Yeah, that is true. >> Okay. Because this woman talks out of both sides of her head. That's why she's called the exwife.

>> Yeah. Although she is in a house and I'm still renting. So, I gota I I >> Yeah. And what she paid for it was a dear price. >> Yeah. >> And sadly is probably so mathematically challenged she doesn't even realize it.

>> Yeah. It's quite possible. >> It's going to take her a lifetime just to catch up on retirement now.

>> Yeah. >> So, how much do you have in retirement?

>> Uh me personally now about 85.

>> And what do you make? >> Uh 130. >> And how old are you?

>> Uh uh 50. >> Yeah. Okay. If you cash out your money, they're going to charge you a 10% penalty and and plus a 25% tax rate.

It's like saying, "Dave, I want to borrow 35% interest. I want to borrow money at 35% interest to buy a house." Please don't do that. >> No, I agree. >> That does not put your face under the smart column in the dictionary. Okay?

So, no, don't don't do that. And and be

careful who you're listening to for financial advice in the future. Um, you

know, it's like watching some influencer on Tic Tac and they're on there doing their thing and they look like all they're running is the highlight reel and you see a private jet that they rented and don't own and but buy I can

teach you to buy real estate and I've got a jet. Yeah. That I rented 10 minutes ago. It's not even your own jet.

Come on, dude. You know, and and then you go buy a $3,400 kit from them which is where they actually make their money.

So, no. Just No. No. Be careful who you're listening to for money advice.

What you want to do is look at people that are understated and they're driving a Toyota

and they don't have any flash or any

bling and their lives are really solid and steady and predictable and sustainable and happy, highquality relationships.

These are called mature individuals.

They're not doing anything to impress others. They're living a life of quality.

And if someone happens to notice, they probably wouldn't even notice. And these are called millionaires. And if you can find one of those and actually get them to admit it and then talk to you, they'll teach you the real stuff about money. It's hard stuff like live on less than you make, save and invest, be

generous, live on a plan, >> don't rob your 401k to get into a house, that kind of stuff. >> Yeah. Common sense. That's on the Don't listen to your ex-wife for financial advice. Alexi is with us in Sacramento.

Alexi, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I recently discovered your podcast. I'm a new listener. Um, and I recently started my career. I graduated college last year. Um, so I've officially created like a monthly budget paying off my student loans and all of that. >> Good for you. >> But I was wondering Thank you. um on the best approach and recommendations for all the extra money that I have. Um I

recently learned about high yield savings accounts. So I was just wondering if that's the way to go or where to put my emergency funds or cash

that I need like easy access to.

>> I love it. You are thinking perfectly. a high yield savings account is what we recommend for any short-term savings goals like that are happening in the next 1 to 3 4 years and your emergency fund and that'll help it at least kind of keep up with inflation cuz right now the rates are about you know 3 and 12%.

And if you want a great one uh we got a great partner with Fairwinds and so if you go to fairwinds.org they have a smart bundle just for our fans that has a checking account and a savings account with a great rate.

>> Yeah. So high yield savings is where you would start for something like George said for your emergency fund which should be 3 to six months of expenses and of course you're staying out of debt completely. So we're saving up and paying cash for things and then beyond your emergency fund anything you're wanting to do with money in the short term. Now when you start thinking long-term for retirement then we're going to move towards mutual funds and some other things.

But yeah, George is right. uh this new partner of ours. Uh they've been with us for about a year and a half and they just became the studio sponsor just about a month ago and uh have we spent a lot of time with the people behind the scenes.

It's a good high yield savings account at Fairwinds Credit Union. So just look them up. Fair winds like the winds are

fair. All right, here we go. Uh Riley's

in Houston. Hey Riley, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. Um, I appreciate you taking my call. Yeah, >> sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so I have a question in regards to paying off student loan debt.

Currently, I have about 68,000

in total student loan debt. I do have quite a bit of savings. Um, and I'm just curious on how to tackle this. um pay it

in bulk, which I sort of have a feeling that you're going to say, or reinvest the savings to use the interest to make payments. Just kind of don't know what route to go.

>> We would recommend the debt snowball method, which means you're going to knock out the smallest balance first.

So, how much do you have in savings?

>> I have about 95,000.

>> Dude, pay it all off today.

>> Why have you waited? Uh, >> what's holding you back?

>> Honestly, it's just that mental aspect of not having that much in savings. Um,

>> you don't you have $68,000 in debt that you owe. So, mentally, I would detach and go, I don't actually have 90 something,000. I have, you know, $29,000

cuz I owe I took I sign on the dotted line saying, I'll give you this money back. >> And dude, you can be done today and not pay another dime in interest and be free. Hey Riley, where' the 95 come from?

>> Uh just savings from work. Yeah, like

>> and if you if you have 29 tomorrow and no debt, you can save even more.

>> And that is recommended rather than trying to invest that >> 100%. The number of millionaires that we've interviewed in all of our research that said I borrowed money on my student loans and made the spread and caused me to be a millionaire is precisely zero.

No one uses no one actually does what you're talking about to build wealth in the real world. It's all theory on Tic Tac.

>> Okay. And this might have came at a great time because I was um trying to do an application um and income driven application online. And prior to submitting, I was hoping that I could get into this call and try and just figure out the route because I I know what my monthly payment would would be at. Um, but obviously it it'd be in that payment for x amount of years. So >> I wouldn't do income driven anything.

I'd get rid of the debt. All you're doing is kicking the can down the road, dragging this thing out longer. You've worked hard to save and that's going to be painful to let go of that. But man, it's going to set you free when you have those payments back in your life, back in your bank account. >> Well, and you got this monkey off your back and it's in this case a gorilla on your back. Yeah. Get him off and you're

going to feel you're going to feel funny. You feel like you lost 300 lb. be weird. >> And you'll stack up that savings again real quick with no payments.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Katherine is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Katherine. How are you?

>> Good. I have a question on a we have a

variable life insurance um which we know

now we should have never had um that probably eight years ago um we

took out to try to save my husband's business that we ended up having to sell to off to somebody else. And so there's

really nothing um left in there. The cash value that's left is like $4,800.

Um, I just didn't know like because we've kind of just been hesitating when then the people that have had it, they've kind of just said, "Leave it there." >> Oh, I bet. >> I don't know. >> Who sold this to you? Who hates you that much? >> Actually, it was a close friend that um

when we first had our first baby that she told us and of course cuz she sold it. So, >> yeah. >> So, we've just kind of >> she's out of the business. She's out of the business now, right?

>> Uh, yes.

They us they usually last about two years and then they're gone.

>> Um. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, >> we have like ter some term life also.

>> Okay. So, what does your husband make a year?

>> What? 275.

>> And how much term life does he have?

>> The term life is about 800,000.

>> Okay. All right. Is he healthy?

>> And then I have like I have like 250.

Uh, yes and no. He's 60. Um, but he has

had he has diabetes and has some issues.

But >> diabetes is a big one when it comes to life insurance. Um, >> he all right. And you guys have no money. It sounds like you've been through hard times.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And you have you don't have any children left at home?

>> Uh, well, I have a one 16-year-old.

>> Okay. >> I do have a 16-year-old still at home.

So his the concern today is if the 60-year-old dies, he leaves a wife

and he makes what's your household income? You said >> about 275. >> He makes 275.

>> Yes. >> And do you work outside the home?

>> No. >> Okay. No. >> And so that you lose a $275,000 income if he dies today.

>> And um and he leaves you 800,000 bucks,

>> right? >> Okay. which is just over, you know, with two and a half years of income. >> If that was invested at 10%, it would make you 80,000.

>> So, you're going to be short about 200,000 based on the way you're currently living.

>> Um, >> right. >> So, if he was young and in good shape, I would tell him to get, you know, 2.5 million on him, uh, including the 800.

So, we back that out, but so, you know, one and a half or so, give or take. But uh he's not and he if um I I suspect at

60 with the diabetes it's going to be pretty expensive to get some term insurance. But the variable life insurance is um

it's not much in coverage is it? It's not very big policy, right?

Uh, no. It was when we first got it, it was like he had 500,000 and mine was but

where we took out it was probably like I

said like probably eight years ago it was like $70,000 we had in there and we

took all that out to try to save the business. But we we put in it's like

$275 a month. I'm like >> Yeah, but I'm talking about the death benefit. If he dies, what do they write a check for?

Oh, that's only 350.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And 275 a month for 350 even

>> for a diabetic 60-year-old is is ridiculous. So, >> and then that's where we're like we're just throwing that money away. I feel like >> Yeah. So, you can cancel that if you can afford to live on 800 grand if he dies tomorrow. Okay. If you instead another

route you could go before you could cancel it, you could go to Xander Insurance. talk to them and see if they can make a market, meaning if they can get a company to cover him, uh, and how expensive it will be. And try to buy a million. Okay? Try to buy a million, >> uh, on him if you can.

>> I had some when I was in my late 50s and 60s and and right around 60 years old just cuz SWI Sharon wants it. I didn't need it, but my wife wanted that instead of another diamond. And so, I did that and I but I'm in really good shape and don't have a single single medical issue. Um, and so and I don't I don't I

could lose some weight, but I don't meet the obesity markers. So, uh, I'm I can get the I could get the insurance. And so, that's that's the things that'll fight you at that age. Now, so go to Xander Xander insurance.com or call them and tell them you talk to us on >> that.

So, that's what I I wondered about that. >> See if you can get insurance to make you more comfortable. And then if you can, it's an instantaneous yes to cancel this.

I probably don't.

>> Okay. >> I'm probably going to take some of that $275,000 income and start banking it aggressively >> knowing that I don't have enough insurance.

>> Okay. That's what I wanted to know what to to do about that. >> What were you going to do with the money you cashed out?

>> Well, I was wanted to know like I mean

cuz you hear all this stuff about putting stuff into gold. So, I didn't know if that was something or put it where should we put it? I would just >> It's only like $4,800.

>> Well, number one, I'd make sure you're out of debt. But number two, we don't buy any gold. Gold has not got a good track record long-term as a return on investment. Instead, I would just buy good growth stock mutual funds with my investing. But y'all need to be doing a lot more than that. Making 275. 4,800

bucks ain't going to save you, >> you know, not in this situation. So, it's it's just, you know, it's smart thing to do is not gold and go to some mutual funds. But, you know, you need to you need to be laying out a game plan where you're saving like a $100,000 a year. And you do that for 5 years.

Now, you got a half million dollar on top of that $800. Now, we're starting to get there without insurance, without any more insurance, >> starting to become self-insured >> than the original 800. Yeah. But you got to rebuild after the business failure, rebuild some net worth and some wealth for survival for you and the the 16-year-old.

to go.

So guys, uh just to recap,

the life insurance world is polluted

with bad products.

There's really only one all the people that are not in the insurance business, all of us that are financial people that run numbers and are math people, all the financial people say to buy term life

insurance. The best deal on term life insurance is 15 to 20year level term.

That's a level premium and you should have 10 to 12 times your income on you

if you're have a family counting on you for your income. So if you make a h 100,000 you need somewhere around a million dollars million two something like that. And then if that 34 year old wife of yours with three little kids is left behind and you don't have that $100,000 coming home she could take that million invest it. It'll create a h 100,000 in income perpetually until the kids are grown and gone and you can invest in, you know, we have replaced you.

So, if you don't want to get too much, you have to sleep with one eye open.

shape, term life insurance cost is like the cost of a pizza. It's ridiculously

inexpensive to make sure your family's taken care of. Ridiculously.

And I just read a letter to our staff meeting this morning of a 52-year-old that had life insurance on her. And um they had just paid off a million dollars in debt four years ago and uh they were

on vacation. She had an aneurysm and was gone in 6 minutes and uh left another

million behind in life insurance now because they had done the stuff that we teach over and over. So it's just not very expensive if you go and do it right. But this investing inside of a life insurance policy like these stupid variable life and whole life policies are an absolute ripoff. Never do that.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Well, as you've heard, the Fed has cut rates for the first time all year.

15-year fixed rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Buying an affordable home you love is possible if you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent. We have vetted agents to be high octane, high protein, get or done people. And you can find one of these trusted Ramsey trusted local pros for free at ramseyolutions.com/agents.

Time to do a real estate deal, boys and girls. I love it. Caleb's in Dallas.

Hey, Caleb. What's up?

>> All right. Thanks Dave for taking my call. Hey George.

>> Um >> so I'm on babys 2. I've got roughly

65,000 in debt. I make um

somewhere between 80 and 85,000 a year.

And my wife, she's in college at the moment. Um going to get her nursing degree. >> When will she be finished? >> She she will be finished uh this time next year. >> Oh, good. Okay.

So, she um she actually it's a good

thing she she was very blessed to be able to take advantage of her dad's GI bill and um we also have I believe it's

called chapter 11 32 maybe um since we

live in Texas uh she's able to get money

every month that's income on top of um

>> Wow. So she's going to school debtree and getting paid >> right. Yes, sir.

So my question is I've got um a thrift

incentive plan at work. It's not a traditional retirement plan. Um but it is after tax. Um I am required to put in

a minimum of 2% in order to receive profit sharing. Historically, the last three years, um, first year that I was

able to receive it, um, it was 10%, the

next year was 12 and then last year was 15%.

[Music] Um, I'm just wondering, should I continue to contribute that 2% in order to get that profit sharing because it, um, we're on track this year to get 15% again.

Normally I wouldn't. Those numbers are a bit ridiculous, so I probably would.

>> Right. >> Matter of fact, they're the most ridiculous numbers I think I've ever heard in in a good way.

>> Right. Um I I am very blessed to be

where I work and I thought I was

astounded by the I've never seen a retirement plan that that works as well as this one does. >> I haven't either and I've been doing this a long time.

But that's I mean you put in two, you get 15. That's kind of crazy. Uh crazy

good. And so um I mean if you put in two

and you're going to get three, I just pass for now.

>> But I mean and I all you people that get matched 3% on your 401k, I wouldn't I

wouldn't do it. I would stop your 401k temporarily and work your baby step two.

We always have said that for decades and it's worked to get people out of debt.

Um, but that that 2%'s not enough to

bother with one way or another. And the two for 15 trade is probably a pretty good trade. What are you thinking, George? >> Yeah. What am I missing? >> Are are you aggressively looking to get out of this debt making 805? How much can you throw at this thing per year or per month? So, I am um the first

first thing is I I'm on track right now to get out of debt now and since this

past month has passed a year and eight months. Um that's what I've calculated.

>> That's without a nurse's income, >> right? Exactly. >> That'll speed up a year from now.

that'll it'll just, you know, >> really inject some life into your >> She ought to be done a little over a year pretty quick or you know, soon as she gets that going. Now, what is she making income-wise from this program?

>> So, uh, chapter 32, um, the VA benefits,

I think it it depends on, you know, how

often she's in class, but when she is in

class full-time, she's it's like

12 to,500 a month. So, why would she not be in foot class full-time?

>> Well, it some um of this program doesn't

like the summertime for instance, she doesn't have classes all day. She only

has classes of, you know, 2 to four hours out of the day versus right now since she's full-fledged in the program,

she is um getting she's getting full-time student hours. Gotcha. So, >> Gotcha. Okay.

So, so you got another 15,000 or so coming in income from her while she's in school, >> right? Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, you're making about a hundred and you got 65 in debt.

Yeah. You need to be debtree. Yeah. The year and 8 months sounds really good.

And if you she passes her boards right quick and lands in a in a pay in a paying position right quick, then yeah, I think you're going to be in really good shape and it'll be sooner than a year and eight months. I like everything you're doing, Caleb.

Keep it up. Keep it up. I'm glad you're paying attention, George. You know, it keeps coming back to if you pay attention, you win.

>> Yeah. If you know your numbers, what you're looking at, >> you know, those stupid interview questions we get sometimes, it's like, what's the largest problem Americans have with money? They want us to say student loans or credit card debt. And my answer is always not paying attention, >> living in problem. They're just wandering along like Goomer Pile on Valium, you know, and they just wake up at retirement. Shazam, I'm broke, you know. Oh my god. None of you people know what that is. Look it up on YouTube. Okay. Anyway, Christina Cristiana is

with us in Chicago. Hi, Cristiana.

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, so I have a question about baby

steps six and seven. So, my husband and I are are fortunately there.

>> Yay. >> Um, >> yeah, it's exciting. So, my question is

about the order of steps six and seven.

So why do you recommend paying off the

mortgage when the mortgage rate is like let's say 6.3%.

Um but the market returns your money at

10% and then with compound interest you

know >> because your math is because your math formula is very naive.

>> Okay. >> You left out risk.

>> Okay. >> And you left out the fact that you're psychologically, relationally, and spiritually carrying around debt around your shoulders. and it affects your health, your relationships, your career choices, and everything else. And so what we have found is is that the people that build wealth the fastest are the ones with a paidoff house, >> okay? >> Because they're free, >> okay? >> And nobody making them do anything. And

so suddenly they start making better choices instead of trying to maximize their wealth building off the back of a mortgage spread. You left off risk. 100%

of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. We did research.

>> It was easy to do that research.

>> Yeah. >> Didn't take a big research team. >> Fairly fairly quick. But George, it's um

you know, um

it took me a while, Cristiana, to get to

where as a math nerd I understood that

the math formula that you're using, and I back then was using the same math formula. Well, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. And I finally figured out that the more debt you carry, the more risk you carry. And the more risk you carry, you have to mathematically adjust for risk if you're going to use a sophisticated mathematical formula on something.

And so you're I figured out that my math formula and Cristiana, your math formula that you're using now is the same one uh leaves out risk.

what you perceive to be a spread that you're making is is neutralized.

>> Yeah. Well, and what we find is, you know, someone loses a job tomorrow, there's risk there because now you still got to make that mortgage payment. And so it just opens you up. And on top of that, you know, it's not apples to apples when you look at a mortgage payment with 6% versus what you could make in the market.

And by the way, if it's outside of retirement, you're paying taxes on that versus the mortgage is a fixed savings plan right there. But you know, you're paying down that interest.

Hypertension, heart attack, so on. It's the number one killer. And uh and they've gone up as the debt load in America has gone up. And and so the the statistics keep getting worse. And so people say, well, nutrition's worse and there's more obesity. Very true. But also there's more stress.

And it's just strange, you know, when we say financial peace.

Two words that don't go together, like airline service.

What would it feel like to have your house paid off?

Goes beyond the math. It's hard to quantify on paper, >> but no one regrets it. Nobody goes, "Man, I wish I had a mortgage again.

That was fun. I'll do that to make a spread. [Music]

[Music]

Okay.

Okay.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Kyle and Ann Marie are on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions.

Hey guys, what's up? >> Hey Dave. >> Good to have you all. Welcome. Where do y'all live? >> Mon, Georgia. >> Mon, Georgia. >> All right, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> Uh, about $140,000.

>> Way to go, guys. And how long did that take? 18 months.

>> Whoa. Quick. And the range of income during that year and a half, >> uh, about 150 to 160.

>> Cool. What do you all do for a living? >> So, I'm a software developer for a local credit union. >> Mhm. >> And I'm a pre-K teacher.

>> Awesome. Very cool. What kind of debt was this? $140,000.

>> Oh, man. A little bit of everything. We had uh two cars, we had a heliloc,

>> some >> credit cards, student loan debt, >> student loans. >> What was the most of it? Student loans.

>> Yeah. How much of the 140 was student loans? >> About 90. >> Yeah. >> Okay. How old are you two? Uh 36 and 35.

So those student loans been around a while. >> Uh mine have been around for about 3 years. Hers maybe a little longer.

>> Yeah. Mine about 10. >> Okay. All right.

Yeah. They've been around a while. How long y'all been married? >> Four years.

Four years. Okay. Okay. So you brought them into the marriage then?

All right. >> Yes, we did. >> Now I'm getting a picture. And then 18 months.

Yeah. Out of four years. So after you've been married a little while, you look up and went, "Something's got to give." Yeah, we we just kind of got to the end of a month and realized where is it all at? Like we have all this money and we don't know where it's at.

>> We have good paying jobs.

It doesn't make any sense. >> Why are we broke? >> It just comes in and goes out. Comes in, goes out. Like this is not a fun life.

Then how'd you get connected to Ramsay?

So, I just started looking up just different, you know, financial what's the best way to, you know, help pay him some stuff off and Ramsay came up and I just got plugged in immediately and got every dollar set up and just started going at it and we sat down. It took us about 3 months to get the budget really intact. But it >> takes it about three. That's about right.

>> As soon as we did, we uh we were just rolling rolling rolling. >> What did you figure out once you once you got that budget dialed in? Where was the problem? So the I mean it was definitely just the amount of payments that we had in in every different category.

I mean we had what $1,800 $2,000 in payments of just stuff that we needed a strategy to >> definitely eating out too.

>> It was like we don't need to be going out this much. We can just eat at home and um parties with parents and stuff

and going out to eat with family was really big for me. And we just had to tell them, hey, let's just do it at the house and have a potluck just until we're done with this journey. And They supported us in it. So it was definitely worth it. >> Very good. Very cool. So I mean you guys leaned in hard for >> Did you sell something? This is crazy numbers. >> So yeah. So um July uh 23, no 24 we No,

it was 23. July 23 we bought a van and

put it on payments because we're like we can afford this. It's payments. It's not a big deal. >> Um and then in October when we finally started sticking it we were like man this is crazy. you know, we actually need to figure something out. And so, actually July of 24, so one year later exactly, we ended up selling the van for break even. >> Oh, wow. >> And we actually lost about 15,000 in that, which we called our stupid tax.

>> Yeah, >> cuz that's what the insurance paid out before we bought the van. And we should have just bought a car in cash, but we weren't that deep in with y'all yet.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. See, this will be a great down payment. We can get a nice car, you know. Oh my goodness. That's the American way. >> Yeah. Y >> Wow. Well, good for you guys. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt? Paying off 140 grand in 18 months making 150.

>> Definitely being on the same page.

>> Yes. >> Being on the same page with each other and making sure that that budget is key above all else. >> What was the biggest budget fight?

>> Like I said, wanting to give presents

>> presents and going out to eat with family and stuff. >> So, you're on my team. You're the spender. >> Yeah.

>> I'm definitely the nerd. >> Okay. Well, software engineer, of course. What am I thinking? Yeah, no question. Oh, man. Amazing. Amazing.

Amazing. Amazing. Well done, you guys.

So, um, wow. What do you tell people the

key to getting out of debt is then?

>> I mean, just sticking to the budget.

Really? >> Budget, the budget, and being on the same team. That's what I >> We don't We don't live out of the bank account. We live out of the budget. So, even if there's $2,000 in the bank account, we don't have $2,000. We have whatever's left in that line item. >> And that's what we've explained to people. We're like, that budget keeps you on track. So, you're not looking at what you have in that account at all.

You're looking at this is what I'm allowed to spend. This is what I'm free to spend >> that I chose that I was going to spend.

I'm the boss of me. >> Yes. And I'm the boss of that money. And it it it doesn't need to direct me.

>> Amazon Prime is not my boss.

>> Wow. What's next for you guys? You're in your mid30s. No debt. So, >> so we actually um we just listed our house this weekend >> and we actually are uh going to be selling it and moving up because we have a child on the way which is number three

>> and um so we're just trying to move up into our next house and after that it's just figuring out where we want to go on vacation. We want to go relax a little bit too. >> Yeah, that's a good new problem to have.

Where are we gonna go on vacation? How are we gonna pay off this debt? >> Yeah, >> I'm really proud of you guys. Way to go.

Very good work. really good work. So, who was uh bragging on you? Who was cheering you on? >> So, both of our parents were very very helpful in the entire process and understanding of it all. There were times where we had to tell them no to going out and stuff, but they were very understanding and helpful in the entire thing and they are here.

>> My my handyman dad, it was like, "Oh, we can pay you and grandchildren kisses if you'll do this for us versus us having to pay somebody." >> Yeah. >> That worked out very well. >> Yeah. >> I have not been bribed with that yet.

I'm not my I hope my kids are not listening now, you know. So, that's good though. I love it. Well, congratulations you guys. Very, very, very well done.

>> Um, were there people telling you you were weird?

>> Well, everyone at his job, of course.

>> Oh, yeah. I So, because I work at a bank, I work at the credit union, but I mean, yeah, there's I mean, there's always talk going around of, oh, we have this new credit card offering, and I'm just like, I'm good.

>> I'm all right. I'm all right. >> I think I think I'm set on that. Yeah.

Had enough of that. Yeah, >> pretty sure we're done with those things. >> Yeah. >> Well, congratulations you guys. Very, very well done. >> And uh yeah, onward and upward. The third baby on the way. The house goes on the market. Here we go. Game on. How's it feel to be completely free? $140,000

off your back. >> It's a blessing. >> Yeah, it is. It was It was It was all God guiding us the entire way, but it is it is such a freeing feeling for sure.

>> Yes. What was the hardest thing about the whole process?

>> I mean, for me, it was it was just really just making sure that, you know, every every time we sat down to budget that we were on the same page.

>> Mhm. >> That was really the biggest one. >> Towards the end, actually, I was the one that was like, "Come on, let's just cut those last subscriptions just for a month." He hates ads and I was like, "Dude, we got to let this go. We can do it for that last month and then celebrate." >> So, we watched ads for a few months.

Brutal >> to think the car was first world problems. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> We watched ads like when we were kids.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's You'll tell your kids one day. These are the sacrifices we made.

>> We made >> We watched ads for three months. Yeah.

That's great. Very cool. Well, congratulations you guys. We're very proud of you. Did you bring the kiddos with you? >> We did. >> Yes. Bring them up here and here. Introduce them. Ages and names.

>> So, Daniel is three. Uh 24 hours ago he decided to jump off of a playground and fracture his shin. So why not Daniel?

>> Yeah, he was uh being super brave. And we got Bella. She's one.

>> All right. Sweet Bella.

>> So cute. All right.

>> Fun. Yeah. >> All right, you guys. Kyle and Ann Marie.

These kids don't even know what their parents have done to change their whole family tree. 140,000 paid off in 18

months, making 150 to 160. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1, >> we're debt free.

>> YEAH,

that's how it's done. Daniel yelled from his little stroller down there cuz he couldn't get up because of his bum leg, but he was yelling

Oh, good time to be debtree when you have an emergency like that and you just cash flow it. >> Changes an emergency into an inconvenience. But wow, >> pretty cool. Hey, that's a powerful couple right there. What they pulled off in that short period of time and right after getting married, too. >> Yeah. >> I mean, they sat down, pushed through all the relational stuff, made it all happen. Very cool. Very cool. Proud of you guys.

[Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music] Heat

up here.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 22:1, "A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, and favor is better than

silver or gold." Philip Fischer said, "The stock market is filled with individuals who know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Ryan is in Minneapolis. Hey, Ryan, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. Uh my wife and I are currently in baby step three and we'll be finished with that by the end of the year. We receive an annual bonus in March. It'll be roughly $15,000 take-home. Would it be better

for us to take that 15 to fully fund our

Roth IRA or to spread our contributions

out throughout the year and use the bonus between steps four, five, and six?

It doesn't matter much.

Either one will be fine. The difference mathematically is what you might earn.

If you do the 15 all in a lump sum in March, what would you have earned in March versus 11 12th of the month all the way around.

And so, you know, like say the average might be what you would earn on 8 or 10,000 of that 15. So, it might be

$1,000 difference. It might be $800 difference on a on a 10 or 12% year. Um,

>> unless we had a crystal ball, we won't know for sure what the math is on that.

But in general, the sooner you get money into the market, the better off you're going to be long term, >> right? >> But, but it's not I mean, the difference in it's not like you're going to have millions of dollars more because you did 15 lumpsum versus 15 oneth of the time

all the way around the the horn. Right.

>> Right. But but basically for instance in my case, okay, I fully fund my 401k for

the whole year in January,

>> okay? >> I dump the whole thing in there, okay?

Because I can. I own the company and I can just bonus myself whatever I need to and make sure I got enough to do that, right? So I just load the thing stinking thing up and then I've got that I don't know, let's call it 20,000 bucks or 30,000 bucks or whatever it is. it's working the entire year rather than 112th working the entire year, 212ths working part of the year, 312ths working part of the year, 412 working part of the year and so on. You follow me?

>> So the difference is what I would make on 30 grand, 27 grand, 28 grand, 24

grand, 23 grand, 22 and so on all the

way around the horn. And so it's

George is right. a lump sum up on the front end is going to average more than than doing it monthly. The second thing to enter into the conversation because it's a good question um is

you want to be sure if if the steady monthly thing keeps you doing it because

you're on autopilot versus jumping on and off the wagon with lump sums and you don't you're not as predictable with it, sustainable with it. that way you'd be better off sticking with the one that that keeps you doing it. And so I set up stuff I I set up stuff early in my life once I started understanding these principles to trick myself into having discipline like automatic 401ks or automatic draft on my checking account for Roth IAS or those kinds of things back in the old days. So I automatically had debt.

started this stuff um there was no internet of course and so there was no auto there was very little autodraft on utilities and that kind of stuff. You used to have to write a check and send your electric bill through the mail.

Okay. And as soon as they set it up where they would take autodraft, I put all my utilities on autodraft so that I never missed a discount and and to and

that's been God that's 25 or 30 years I've been doing that. So, anything I can do to have autopilot automatic discipline? >> Yeah, I like that mentality cuz if you were investing 15% of your income forever, you got to learn to live on 15% less than you would have. And so, it's sort of like that money was never there.

And that's a good way to live because it keeps you in check. So, I think that long-term discipline is key. But for this year, if you just wanted to fund them and be done with them and move on, that's >> if you've, you know, for 10 years you've always gotten a a bonus in March of 15 grand and you want to just label that that's going to go towards our retirement and we're going to do less through the rest of the year. Fine.

I don't know, you know, but whatever you do, trick yourself into being consistent and uh and when given the opportunity, a lump sum early in the year will outperform a steady monthly investment because it's been in there longer. There's a fancy in there longer. >> Dollar cost averaging. >> Well, that's what you're not doing is dollar cost averaging when you put it all in there.

Yeah, you're missing out on that.

Hey, R.J., how are you?

>> Hey Dave, how's it going? better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so my question is um see honestly I'm in baby step two and I have like 12,000 in debt. CDL school is 3,000. I

don't know if I should go ahead and like what school >> go back and what school >> CD CDL school >> to get your CDL. Okay, just three grand to do that >> I currently have my CDLB, but in order to increase my income, I need a CDLA.

So, like, should I go into more debt and like 3,000 more to go like to to make more money or should I wait until I pay off my debt completely and then once I'm done baby step two, should I go ahead and like, you know, cash flow that three grand school to make money back?

>> Um, it's like a sweet I'm I'm currently a super driver corporation of America.

>> So, you're not driving now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm currently using my CDLB.

I'm currently making money well with my CDLB. >> Okay. What are you making doing that?

Um about 54 54 a year.

>> And what would you what would you stay with the same company and or change jobs? >> No, I definitely I definitely change jobs. I go like to a higher paying company. I probably make at least 70,000 maybe like 80 to 100. I mean 70 to 100,000. There's no limit.

>> How quickly could you save up three grand making what you make now?

>> Uh maybe like three or four months maybe if I really put more into it. Yeah. And I what I'd do is work six extra jobs and sell so much stuff the kids think they're next and scrape up three grand in cash about in about a month. But no,

I'm not going to borrow money to go do it. >> The the secret to getting out of debt is to stop borrowing.

That's the first step. You got to quit looking to debt to be your answer, to be your savior. Every time you want to go do something, you got to say, "That's not an option anymore. I'm going to take debt off the table. It's not an option.

Now, how am I going to do this? Well, it's a good thing to do. I mean, if you can spend three grand and up your income 25 grand, I think you ought to do that.

That sounds pretty good. But and so what that means is I'm going to be working my tail end off, man. I'm going to be working like all the time and go get me three grand cuz I mean, >> right, right, >> that's where money comes from is work.

And so, go get you some. That's what I would do. And I'd be busting it, man.

And at the workplace, I'd be asking for overtime. I'd be asking workplace to pay for it and and let them, you know, maybe they keep you on at 70 grand with a CDL, right? And so, yeah,

there's nothing wrong with that, but that's and there is a shortage of drivers right now. So, that's not a bad thing at all to go get that um, you know, get that license to be able to move some stuff around. Uh, yeah, I'm

definitely going to go get the money, but no, R.J., Hey, I'm not going to I've never told someone in 30 years to go into debt on this show. >> Guess we're not starting today. >> Yeah. And um it but if I were in your

shoes, I'd be wanting that three grand.

I'd be wanting it really, really bad. Yeah. Some good ROI on that. >> I'd go get some. I mean, what do we got we can sell? What about that motorcycle, that four-wheeler that's out in the backyard? >> Oh, why don't Yeah, we go sell it. Get

your three grand. You're getting ready to borrow money. You know, you're sitting on some junk back there somewhere probably that'll pay this thing. So, just figure out what what what you can do.

Once I took debt off the table, George, I started seeing all kinds of creative options. >> Your imagination runs wild when it doesn't involve a lender. >> Yeah. When I can get stay, you know, once I do anything to stay away from a bank or I can't do the thing, well, I want to do the thing.

So, I'm going to go find a way, but it's not going to be with a bank. >> Yeah. I just crunched some numbers here. here.

Okay, now I know what it's going to take to go get that license.

>> 120 hours of extra side hustling.

>> So, that 5 hours a day for 20 days.

>> There you go. >> Ding.

>> So, there there's the math on it. >> I might be tired. Oh,

>> well, you might. >> He sounds like a young guy. >> I know, not him. He's got energy. He wasn't a whiner, but I mean, I've talked to a few people that whine. It's okay.

>> You might miss uh the next series on Netflix. >> You're not going to die from hard work. Right before you die from hard work, you pass out. It's okay.

[Music] >> That's how the Lord intended it.

>> That puts us hour on the Ram of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

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## 247. You Breathe Easier Without Payments Choking You | September 4, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:30 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show where we help you with your life and your money.

We're taking calls. If you want to call in, the number is88255225.

We'll get you on the line. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel in the place to be. I can't wait. This is going to be fun. Do the people know?

>> They know. Yeah. I My wife and I, we just had our second baby, a beautiful little boy named Henry. So, I'm coming into the show cuz I just needed to get out of the house. Jade, >> listen. I wondered about that.

>> Okay. >> We got a lot of help at home, though. So, she's doing great. Mom's doing great. Baby's doing great. We got applause in the uh lobby here. Thank you guys so much. >> Yeah. So so great. I'm glad you're here with me in the co-pilot seat. George, let's take off to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where we've got James on the line. What's up, James?

>> Well, congratulations on the new baby.

>> Oh, thank you. >> Uh you're very welcome. So, I just inherited $750,000 in a Roth IRA. >> Oh, wow. From who? I'm going I'm going to buy a new home. Um mainly because of

the neighborhood I'm currently in. It's time to find a new one and the spouse would like to be farther out in rural central Pennsylvania. What I'm trying to figure out is what is a a a good amount

to pay for a home. We've got a little disagreement of about 50 to 75,000 on what we should spend. >> Wow. So you know that you know bar none, hey, I want to spend this money on a house and you're just like how much should we spend? Have you kind of looked at uh you know real estate in your area

to find out okay we're looking for a threebedroom we're looking for this and this is what it costs.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. I've been on the MLS uh probably 3 hours a night for the last two weeks. >> And what are you finding?

>> Um I'm finding a lot of prices coming down on on homes that I didn't think I could afford a month ago. >> Uhhuh. >> Or I wanted that I wanted to pay for a month ago. Um and a lot of areas. Um,

and I've and I've pretty much tossed away homes that definitely need a lot of work or we don't have good pictures or I was a realtor 20 years ago and I'm astonished at some of the the the the pictures they put on the MLS. I'm like, my god, buy a camera. Come on. >> So, you're What's your current house worth? >> Yeah. >> Uh, 160.

>> It's worth 160. And is it paid for outright or do you owe on it or >> No, I I owe I owe 80,000 on it. Um, I've

got a 2.5% mortgage. Um, I I had the

stupid thought of renting it after I buy another one, but the more I listen to the show, the more I'm thinking, nope, I'm just going to sell the thing when I'm done and and be done with it.

>> So, what's the plan? Is >> is the plan that we're taking the proceeds of the current home sale and we're adding it to the 750 and we're spending that and buying the house in cash or tell me what you're >> and No, we're we're going to buy the house in cash and we'll we'll put the the current home up for sale, you know, 6 months from now or whenever. Um that's not that big of a rayment.

Well, I'm trying to figure out out of that 750 because I the rest of the money

um I'm going to work for five more years before I hit 67 and retire. My spouse is

30 years younger than I am. I want to make sure the house is paid for. They've got no debt when I die and pass on to the great heavens. The only thing they're going to have is a spousal social security to live off of and whatever they're making. They're they're a stay-at-home um artist.

>> Okay. So, that's where I want that's where I want to camp out. That's where I want to camp out. So, your spouse is 30 years younger. You've got the 750. Is this the only money to your name or do you have other uh 401k retirement money

elsewhere? >> No, I I have not had any type of work benefit um in in 15 years. I make

120,000 a year >> um consistently. I work um you know 65

70 hours a week. So, this is this is the part this is the part where I'm not so sure I agree that you should spend the majority of this on buying a house because a >> we're not we're not we're not thinking we're not thinking that either. The dis the issue is uh my spouse wants to spend

maybe 225. I'm thinking no let's go 325

and and and that's where we're at. I mean what what because it's it makes a huge difference in central PA on what type of house we're going to get. >> Sure. Um, >> so what would you do with the rest of the money? Let's say you did 325.

>> It's it's sitting in a Vanguard EFTS and

it's going to sit there. >> Okay. And that becomes your retirement account essentially, your nest egg.

>> Correct. Yes. >> So you plug in those numbers in. So George, >> how old are you now?

>> I'm sorry. >> How old are you now? Current age?

>> 62. >> Okay. So let's say you let this ride to

80.

>> Okay. >> And you have zero. You have zero in it. Now, how much will be in there once you let's say how much are you going to dump into that account?

>> About I can I'll probably I don't know

10,000 a year, 15,000 a year. I can put anything whatever because I have no debt now. I I >> I thought you were going to do like hundreds of thousands. >> Why not dump like 400,000 in there and let compound growth do its thing for the next 18 years? >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Cuz that would give you, let's say you did 400 grand in there, that's 2.4 million when you're 80.

>> Nice. That's not a bad uh legacy to pass on to your loved ones. >> Yeah, because you're still going to have the money from the home sale, too.

>> So, you're going to have plenty. You sell the house, you're going to pay off the mortgage as part of the sale and have some equity left over. Do you have anything in savings? Do you have a fully funded emergency fund right now?

>> I I my emergency fund will come out of this 750 because I've never had one and I know I need one. >> But you said you've been making six figures for a while now, >> right? And I was paying down I was I was $142,000 in debt up until a month ago. I wiped it all out. >> You spent You spent the last decade just cleaning up a mess.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we don't have a spending problem here to where you just spend this money within the next decade.

>> Right. Right. Understood. Understood.

>> And what about your spouse? Do they work? You said they're an artist.

>> Yes. But they don't spend any money at all. It it it's almost impossible to get them to spend even 20 bucks.

>> Yeah. But do they make money?

>> Um not a lot. 20 25,000 a year.

>> Listen, I want to find out how you can live on $20 and be that frugal.

>> That's wild. That takes starving artist to a whole new level. >> Yeah, that does take it to a whole new level. Um I Let me just tell you this.

Uh with the situation that you're telling me, I'm going to just tell you what I think and you can take it or leave it. I think the spouse needs to find some way to bring in some money. I don't think you can just not do anything. And I don't think it's a a fair argument to say, "Well, they don't spend any money, therefore they don't need to make any money because they do spend money." And even if you don't view it that way, you're the one who called in and said, "Hey, I want to make sure they have something more, not just social security, right?

So that person can help contribute to that.

that." So, I think that's a conversation that you need to have because the truth is this money was >> um a windfall, right? It wasn't something that you worked to get and you guys got lucky to get this money. So, I don't want you to have to rely on luck anymore. I want you to rely on, >> okay, we can have the wherewithal to do what we need to do to make sure we're set up uh very very well.

So, that's my two cents. And I do think there's some there's some frugality, scarcity mentality with your spouse here that I think needs to be dealt with. And I don't know if that's therapy. I don't know what happened in her past, but it sounds like there's something here where she goes, "I'm scared of having too much.

>> I don't know if I can handle it." So get to the root of that and figure out what's actually going on there, cuz I think what you're saying is reasonable. A $300,000 home in 2025, everyone's going, "Well, sure." >> Yeah, >> that's nothing. >> Yeah, you can do that. And matter of fact, I want you to check out our uh our Ramsey Trusted site.

You can look at the housing market in your area.

when you are ready to buy. So, check that out. Um, yeah, be smart with this money. $750,000, it's a lot of money, but if you're not smart with it, especially when you're talking about something like a house, real estate purchases, it can be gone in 2 seconds. >> Gone with the wind. >> Gone with the wind. And you need that.

[Music]

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[Music]

To the phone lines we go where we have Jesse in Maui, Hawaii. What's up, Jesse?

>> Hi. Congratulations on the new baby.

>> Oh, thank you, Jesse. So kind. This is a fun day for me. >> Everyone's so nice. I know. How can we help, Jesse?

>> Um, so I have started following you guys

like literally eating, breathing, sleeping. Ramsay.

>> Oh, you drank the Kool-Aid.

>> Yeah, I've I'm deep. But I want to just

confirm if I indeed have to downsize my

home. >> Oh. >> In order to survive this situation.

>> Yeah. Tell us more. Tell us what do you make every month? >> Yeah. Well, currently I'm making 6,000 with my

part-time. Um, I'm a nurse, but about three years ago I got a divorce plus an injury >> and so I went I was at 135

>> and um I was able to do everything but

with I assumed a debt for the divorce and I was unemployed with the injury with no income for several months.

>> Oh shoot. >> So now I'm working. Um, so yeah, so I'm

at the low end of a nurs's spectrum, but I am applying and, you know, trying to find something that I can do.

>> Are you able to work full-time now?

>> Yeah, I'm full-time, but I'm not able to work like a floor.

>> Um, you know, like hospital kind walking. >> So that limits your >> to a different role. >> Yeah. Okay. >> How long? >> Yeah. So I am Yeah. How long till you feel like you would be at kind of an optimal nurse's salary and what would that be amount-wise?

>> Um, if I got the position that I'm

trying to apply for, I'd make probably 10 to 11 starting, >> maybe 10,000 a month starting.

>> Um, >> and what's your mortgage payment every supplement?

>> Uh, 39.

>> I'm sorry, 29. No, I'm sorry. 29 and change >> even still. But >> so right now it's about half of your income every month. >> January. Yeah. But I have a I have a

1100 HOA which is starting in January going up and I have the debt.

>> You must have a nice view plus loans. I do I you know I like my house and I I

was like yesterday I was okay. I was like no I can downsize. I can sell and go get a condo, one-bedroom condo. Um

but then this morning I'm like I like my house. What's the total payment with the 1100 HOA?

>> Um, so it it comes out >> Oh, I'm sorry. You said 2900

includes the HOA.

>> No, the HOA is separate and they're raising it to,100. >> So, we're talking it's going to be four grand a month here shortly.

>> Yeah. Which is like >> that's the part that scares me. >> 69% of my income according to the

dollar. >> Yeah. I mean, you can't live like that.

So, the question >> I Yeah. >> The question is in reality,

the grandest scheme of reality, how quickly can you get to this $10,000 payday? And when I say get to it, I mean you're taking the check home.

>> Well, it's with the state. I applied uh for a job with the state. So, um I don't

have control even if I I put out some feelers with uh somebody who works in the department >> to try to feel out, you know, to keep my application and they said they'd try to contact somebody >> and that's >> but yeah, >> that's the only line you have in the water.

>> Um yeah, because >> Okay. And how long has it been there?

>> How long how long since you applied?

>> I just applied last week.

>> Okay. So, we've got to what what I'm why

I'm asking these questions and why I'm being so direct is we've got to kind of have a breaking case of emergency button here to where you can't go on with this

being 69% of your income for much longer. So, if you said to me, Jade, I applied for this thing a week ago and I'm giving myself 3 weeks. If I don't if

I'm not pretty much 100 that this job is

happening, I'm moving. And I feel like that because hey, this is your only line in the water. It's not like you're telling me, "Hey, I've got a lot to choose from. One of these is going to pan out." You've got one line in the water and it's been a week.

You haven't heard anything and you're not really sure what lever you can pull to make it happen >> is what I'm gathering. >> To go back to my original salary, I have to go back to basically um middle management or higher. And that's kind of what killed me in the first place and why why I was I took a I was going to take a break from it and go, >> "Yeah, I don't want you to take a job that kills you just to keep a house you like. That's not worth it.

Your quality of life will go down." >> And not to mention, let's just be honest, even with the $10,000 a month, a $4,000 payment is still higher than what it should be. >> And it's not going down with insurance and property taxes and HOA, that payment's only going to increase >> until you pay off the mortgage. So I think as my friend Dr. John Deloney would say, we need to degree the picture you had of your life where you were 100% healthy, married, here's what our life's going to look like.

>> And so I think we have to kind of choose reality and go, okay, what can I afford right now? Maybe one day we'll get back to this beautiful home or something like it, but right now you got to do what's best for you, especially with a pile of debt to clean up. How much is the debt?

>> Yeah. um with with the parent pluses

that aren't in my name, but legally I think I'm responsible for them.

>> No. >> Well, you signed the Did you co-sign for that parent plus loan? Someone did.

>> Yeah, my it's in my ex-husband's name.

>> Oh, you said you assumed all the debt.

>> I agreed that I would pay it so that he wouldn't uh touch the house.

>> Okay. So, it's part of the divorce agreement.

>> Yeah. That's when I was still working.

like I left him debtree. Um,

>> and if you sold the house, could you pay off all of your debt? What's the total debt excluding the >> 99?

>> Okay. So, you owe >> 999,000.

Yeah. >> What's the house worth and what do you owe? >> Um, I owe 323 and um I could I'm crossing my fingers to

put it on the market for 1.2.

Okay, good. >> So, you would clear the debt and probably have enough money to purchase something cash?

>> Yeah, I was hoping to downsize um to go

to like a one-bedroom condo. Um condo prices are dropping in Maui because of the fires and >> um just there's new legislation about Airbnbs and such. So, I was thinking if

I sold I could get a one-bedroom condo,

maybe for like 500, could >> clear some of this debt, too. Clear the debt out. >> You'd be in a very different place. Cuz here's the thing. Even if you were able to pay the debt off, you still have the same problem in front of you.

>> The mortgage is just simply too high for your income. And unless you see it going up to 15 16,000 in the near future, it's

still going to be a lot of your take-home pay, taking away from your goals to pay off debt, get the emergency fund, the best for the future, >> single person. >> Exactly. And if you're married again, we'll reassess the picture. >> Sure. >> So the 99,000 that's it for you

of >> Yeah, that's including this the parent pluses that I agreed to assume.

>> Yeah. Listen, I think that's my name, but you know, I think >> I think that's the move. You've got an opportunity here. You clear this mortgage. It's it's a headache for you anyway. You take some of the money uh that you're going to gain here. You pay off the 99,000. You find something that you can afford in cash. And if it takes

a while, if you take say, "Hey, I'm going to rent for a bit until I maybe save up a little bit more if you need to, then so be it." I think right now to

George's point, you're starting a brand new life. And the good news is you've

got some equity to to to build that life off of, but you also have time. Like there's nothing that says I have to now you do need to get out of this current house, but there's nothing that says that you need to hurry up and buy the next one. You can take some time and really decide what that what a new property looks like in this phase of life. And I like that for you.

>> I'm breathing in the freedom of having $800,000 to Yeah. take 500, throw it at

a home, 300,000 left over, take 50 of that for an emergency fund, and you still have a quarter million down payment for your future home. And so, I love this. I can I breathe easier just thinking about that for her versus I make six and I owe four every single month. Am I going to be able to eat and pay down my debt?

>> You know what you're saying, George?

because when you call in, you know, you're full of anxiety, you're full of stress, the payment is about to, you know, knock your block off. And so, it's like you're so focused on wanting to keep your kung fu grip on that house.

But if you would just let it go, like you said, you can finally breathe. The stress is gone. You don't have that crazy payment again, and you've given yourself the opportunity to get something that actually is sized right for your lifestyle, for your budget.

Listen, that's a win-win. >> Make that view a screen saver for now and put it on your vision board. We'll get back to it in no time. But right now, we got to clean this mess up. We're wishing you the best.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Or if you happen to be watching this on YouTube or the podcast, you can just click the link in the description. All right, let's go to Nicole who is in Ohio. Hey Nicole, what's up?

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Doing good. How can we help?

>> Good. So, I have a kind of not really

quick question. Um, so I am um currently

in school. I'm set to graduate at the end of this year. >> I left my job um a year ago. Um my

husband was making 60 grand a year. Um

very recently found out um I'm pregnant

with twins. I've already got three kids.

>> Wow. >> Wow. >> Um yeah. However, here's where it starts

getting a little wild. Um, we had a

recent um chain of domestic events. So, I now have a protection order against my soon to be ex-husband. I'm filing for divorce. >> Oh my goodness. >> Um, so sorry. >> And I mean, with me, so I'm not working.

I'm not set to graduate till later this year. And I have no savings. I have my

only income is child support from my first two kids. So, I guess I'm kind of just like I don't really know what my

next steps are. My parents um luckily I

um rent from a family member, a home from a family member. So, like that asset was protected. Me and the kids are we're safe now and that's where we are.

But there's been talk of like, should I just go on state benefits until these two babies are born?

>> Um, should I go ahead and try to find a job now even though I'm in school full-time? Like, I just I don't really know what to do. >> Well, um, I'm sorry that you're going through this. Um, this is really tough.

>> I want to clarify a couple of things you said just to make sure I understand everything. So, pregnant with twins and that's from the soon to be ex, but there's another there's another person from the other two babies that's paying you child support.

>> Did I understand that correct? Okay.

>> Yes. >> And you've not filed for divorce with

your current ex, right? It's just you're separated.

>> Um, I'm actually filing this week.

>> Okay. So, you're filing this week because what I'm trying to account for is the the no savings and the this and the that because the sooner that we can kind of get this wrapped up, do you think this is going to be a thing where it's like lawyers and all this or do you think it's something you can do in mediation and just get it done?

>> Um, I think he is going to fight it. So, I I have already contacted a lawyer. Um,

and actually I took out a loan from a family member to pay for my retainer.

Like I said, that's actually >> all going through this week.

>> Okay. >> Um, but I have a feeling he's going to

try to drag it out.

>> So, okay. Can you give us a picture of what you guys' financial picture is like? What how much debt is there? Is there any money between the two of you?

Is there any assets? Can you tell us that right quick?

So, kind of luckily there won't be many

assets um to split. Um me personally, I

do have student loans. I'll have about 60 grand when I'm done. Um but as far

like the cars paid off, the houses, you know, in a family member's name. Um there was no big bank accounts, nothing

like that. Um which I guess it kind of

paid off to be a little broke. Um, >> so you'll likely walk away from this with 60 grand in your student loans and no money in the bank. Is that what you're assuming? >> Okay. Yes. >> What are you going to school for?

>> Uh, nursing. >> Okay. And that's done in December.

>> Yes. >> And you can immediately get a nursing job or is there uh you need to take the exam?

>> Um, I will have to take the national board, state board. Um, but other than that, yeah. Um, and we've actually been

encouraged to go ahead start applying now, which I have. Um, not as a nursing

job, but I've applied for a position within a hospital. I'm just waiting to hear back. >> Okay. And then what does child care look like for five kids?

>> Um, so my parents are both retired, so

they watch the three now. Um, and they'll watch these two when they're born. >> Wow. That's a blessing in this nightmare

at least. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And they've committed to say, "Hey, we're going to watch all five." >> Yes. >> At no charge or do you pay them?

>> Nope. I they I jokingly when my mom quit

her job, I was like, "Well, now you get paid in love." And she was like, "Yes, I do." >> Wow. That listen, that right there is enough to answer the question that you asked before because before you said, "Hey, do I need to go on basically government assisting?" And so for me, I'm thinking, okay, your housing is covered because this is a family member's house that you're living in.

You got child care, which for a lot of us is the next biggie. So out of your four, what I'm going to call five walls in this case since the child care, out of those five walls, now we only have to cover food, transportation, right?

Keeping the utilities going. Are you working? Is there any way that you can work at all? Because you got to have something coming in and do school on the side. Is there any way to to make that happen? >> Yeah. And like I I did apply for a hospital job. Um it it's not a nursing

job yet. Um but they did say that like a role transition would be an option.

>> Oh, great. Do you know what that role would pay? Is it more administrative?

>> It's probably be it's like 18 to 22 an

hour would be my guess. >> Okay. And how many hours a week do you think? >> About 24 cuz I'm in school full-time.

I'll actually next we're getting ready to start our next quarter. So, I'll be in school uh three sometimes 4 days a week.

>> Okay. But you could still bring in, you know, 1,500 to two grand a month doing that part-time, which lets you survive through this period while finishing school. I would encourage you because you're this close and you have that child care provided. I would finish because this income is going to be your path to freedom. Yep.

>> To getting rid of these loans. >> Not Yes. Not finishing school isn't an

option. Okay. >> It's just a matter of can I balance the

school >> cuz nursing school's really hard.

>> Yeah. >> On top of being pregnant with twins.

>> When did one of the twins do?

>> Uh they are due in March.

>> Yeah. Oo. If you can make it to the finish line and I listen twins is a whole other set of circumstances. You

know if you can get these first, you know, four or five four months and keep working, keep going to school. I don't I'll be honest with you. I don't know how long that's going to last carrying twins. Hopefully you're able to go till term. How old are you?

>> Uh 33.

>> Okay. Hopefully you're able to go till term, finish out at least your school year. Um and and get that going. But

listen, that's my prayer because if you can do that, yeah, you can avoid government assistance. You've got so many people in your corner that seem to be willing to help you out. If you can avoid that, because it's a trap. So if you can avoid that at all costs, I would.

Um, but if you hit a point where it's like, "Hey, the doctor's telling me I can't be on my feet. Doctor's telling me I have bed rest." Something like that. Listen, no one's going to judge you. >> You need insurance.

Like, don't go a day without insurance. Do you have good insurance right now? And will you lose that? >> Uh, no.

marketplace insurance right now.

>> Okay. And who's paying for that?

>> I am. >> Okay. And with the child support income, is that all you have right now?

>> Yes. And that's uh less than it's like

$240 a week.

>> So it's like minimum it's enough to pay the house payment and that's about it.

>> Okay. So you know you take that $1,000 a month, you add to it, you know, your 20 hours a week making 20 hours $20 an hour at the other job. You can make you can make this happen. The question is just how long, you know, and how how will you feel throughout this pregnancy as it continues on? So, just my advice is make the most of it as early on as possible,

right? Don't wait another second to get this part-time job going. Don't wait another second. Keep applying for those nursing positions so the moment that you can take it, you're there, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, boy. >> Nicole, if you if you can survive this, nothing's going to stop you in the future. This is the hardest season of your life, hopefully.

And uh it's only going to be better from here on out, but you've got great support. We're cheering you on to make it through this hopefully quickly and as unscathed unscathed as you can be while taking care of all these kiddos. >> Yeah. >> Oh, we're thinking about you.

[Music]

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[Music]

What I want to know is, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

>> Yes. Oh, that wasn't for me, was it?

>> Well, George, I sure hope you are for crying out loud. >> I You couldn't stop me if you try.

>> I know I couldn't. But I want to know the folks out there. Yeah, you listening. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Do you even know? Cuz if you don't, you need to take a quick quiz to check your progress. And when you take that quiz, you will receive a personalized plan that's just for you.

In order to do that, simply head to the show notes and click on the link that's titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and you can complete the quiz, which I hope you do. All right, let's go straight to the phone lines where Carly is in Annapapolis, Maryland. Hey Carly,

how can we help today?

>> Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. Um, I was hoping to get an

unbiased opinion on what my husband and

I should do in this next chapter of our life. Um, for context, we had our first

son about 4 months ago, and I'm getting ready to head back to work, and I'm thinking I would like to step back and be a stay-at-home mom.

>> Cool. And what's the uh debate here?

>> So, I feel like I am in shame for giving

up a six figure salary, and that's what

we're struggling with.

>> What kind of six figures? like the ones, the twos, the fours. Like where are we at? The ones. Okay.

>> Okay. What's your household income and what's your portion of that?

>> Um, so I make about 125 and then my

husband makes about 130.

>> Awesome. >> And we have no consumer debt and we just have our mortgage.

>> Cool. And you have an emergency fund?

>> We do. >> Love it. Have you guys done a a sort of mock budget using Every Dollar to see what life would be like living off of just his take-home pay?

>> Um, we have, but not on the Every Dollar platform. Um, we've calculated everything pretty much by hand. And I

think we would be essentially breaking even every month um without making major

cutbacks. breaking even as in you could still invest 15% of your of his income

and still have enough to throw a little to college, enough to throw a little bit at the mortgage or what?

>> Um, we would have enough for to be adding to his retirement and then saving

for college I think would be very slim

and then saving for my retirement on top of that would be a very small portion as

well. So, when we say retirement, you kind of have it broken out by his and hers. We're thinking of it more as a grand percentage. So, we're looking at 15% of your take-home pay, which in this case would just be his take-home pay. >> So, 125,000 times 15%, that's 18750 a

year going into whatever retirement accounts. It could be a Roth IRA for each of you. You max both of those out and then fund a little bit into his retirement plan at work. That works. But your retirement number overall will go down because you're not investing a portion of your income anymore.

>> Right? Okay. >> So, I think you guys are in great shape.

If this is what you feel called to do, I would not let a high salary stop you.

There's been lots of people who make even more money. And they go, I feel called to this and we're going to make peace with it. So, what I don't want you to do is say, oh my gosh, you're going to get judged either way, Carly. Here's what happens in the mom world. You get judged for leaving the highpaying salary job. You get judged for staying home.

So, which one would you rather be judged for?

>> I think I would rather be judged for being with my family. >> There we go. And guess what? You don't care about their opinion, do you?

>> No, I do not. >> So, that's the key. Are you secure with the decision you're making? My wife struggled with this as well. She was here at Ramsey for 9 years at the top of her game, executive assistant, crushing it, making great money, >> and she decided, I feel called to this, and it's not a apples to apples thing.

This is apples to oranges. So, it's hard to compare 120, 130 grand versus being

at home with baby. It just does. I wish it could work that way because I love just logical math problems. This is a valuesbased decision that is very emotional. Yeah, I just want to pull the string a little bit more and double check because because the the retirement thing threw me off a little bit for you.

So, what is your mortgage? Tell us your mortgage right quick.

>> Um, our monthly payment is 2,200 a

month. >> Okay. And that's including HOAs and everything?

>> Yep, that's everything. >> Okay. And he's bringing home what?

>> He brings home about 5,400 a month.

So that's what our >> that feels awfully low for a guy making that's after retirement.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. What is it after taxes?

>> Do you know what his after tax pay is?

>> Yeah, that is after taxes. If we bring home of his salary about 5,400 a month,

>> right? But that's that sounds like it's after taxes, after retirement, after insurance, after everything. Do you know what just his after tax pay is? I just want to make sure that you do have the money to do the things that George is saying. At the very least, you got to be able to do the 15%.

>> Okay. Yeah, I do not know um that number off the top of my head. >> So, that'd be your homework if you were going to sit down with your home with your husband tonight. Just say, "Hey, I want to let's look at what you're making after taxes and then let's compare that to what our take-home pay to what our mortgage is and kind of see where that lies." Because what you're looking for is you got to make sure he's not just investing up until the match that he's really doing 15% that's going to set you guys up for the long term.

And then that can if it's out of balance that could just be you doing something part-time on the side here and there just to close that gap. I'm not suggesting that you have to keep working when you don't want to.

>> Okay. Yes. So right now I know so like we each get a 5% match. Um and then we

both contribute 10%

to our 401ks and then I contribute on

the side to IRA for the both of us.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So it sounds like you're there just double-checking those numbers to make sure and doing them as a full percentage and just remembering yeah your money is not going to be there anymore. It's just going to be based on his salary. But I like it. I like the idea of staying home. >> Yeah. A lot a lot of green lights here.

And you the the fact of the matter is you might have to make sacrifices. Your lifestyle might look different. We might not eat out as much. We might need to, you know, lower our self-care and fun money budget. But I think the trade-off is absolutely worth it. And if you ask anybody who stayed at home who feels called to it, there's no no regrets there. So I think you're thinking through the right thing. Like it's it's a values-based emotional decision that then leads to a math problem.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> So those are the two parts we have to figure out. And if the values, emotion parts there, now it's just what sacrifices do we need to make? What must be true for this to happen and not be super stressful?

We go money is so tight that we can't breathe. And >> listen, very rarely, very rarely it's like no, you can't like you cannot stay home. Like if you stay home, no one's eaten. >> I mean, we get calls from people making, you know, 50 grand household with a bunch of debt and they decide to have a stay at home spouse.

So if they can do it, you can do it, too.

that's going to require lifestyle change no matter what. You got used to a certain level of life and now it's different. >> That is so true. That was a very good question.

Thanks for the question. >> And to Jay, to your point, what we were digging at there with the housing parameter, if you've listened to the show for a long time, we say no more than 25% of your take-home pay going to the mortgage. >> A lot of people think we're the bad guy for saying that, George. >> Yeah.

But what they don't understand is what when we mean by that is your after tax monthly income, right before other deductions. So don't include the 15% to retirement. Don't include the healthare premiums you're paying out of your paycheck. And that really helps to get closer to that parameter.

And again, it's a parameter. >> That's right. And >> if it's 26%, we're not going to knock on your door and say, "Time to move out, bud." >> That's right.

It's included the taxes and fees. Right.

So, we want to make sure that we're holding those sides together. And like George said, if you're 30%, you'll live.

you know, when it's when you start creeping up in the 35, 40 for a long period of time, it's unsustainable at that point. So, these are what we call rules of thumb. >> And the goal is just to not be a house poor. The goal is to have extra money to put toward your college funds for the kids to put extra toward the mortgage.

Otherwise, just trying to scrape by.

Yeah. >> That's not going to be a good quality of life. >> Which, let's play this out even further.

Okay. So, a lot of times people will call in here, they're engaged and they're about to get married and they're telling us the plan is immediately they get married and immediately they buy a house, right? Which we tell people all the time, George, we're like, "Hey, why don't you wait a year? Like, wait a year, rent, you know, get to get used to your new lifestyle because what a lot of times happens in that first year of marriage, George, if you buy a piece of real estate and then a year later the wife is pregnant, what happens?

They bought a house based on two salaries and now they're having to downside >> downsize. And so >> you already went from like wedding stress into house stress. It's a recipe for disaster. >> I know.

I know. And so all of the advice that we give you, just remember it's cuz we love you. It's because we want the best for you. We don't want you to experience stress.

We want you to have financial peace, financial ease. Stick around.

[Music]

[Music]

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

to get involved in the call scene today.

You can call 88825-5225

to get your name on the line. I'm here hosting. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel. George, are you ready to get it on and >> I've never been more ready. >> All right, let's do it. We've got Elaine from Indiana on the line. What's up, Elaine?

>> Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so I am dealing with a little bit of financial infidelity um from my

husband >> and I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how we can move past that. The original incident, well, I mean, it's happened several times, but the kind of straw that broke the back was about a year ago. Um, I learned that he had borrowed about $14,000 from his

employer. >> Oh gosh. So, I guess they offered to pay off a debt that was trying to garnish his wages. Mhm.

>> Um and I found out >> um it was from he had started a business several years ago.

>> Um and so we're working on paying off a lot of the um consumer debt that was kind of left over from that. And so >> did you know about that debt before he got the loan to pay it off?

>> I did. And um we did get a you know a notice about the um they filed the lawsuit. It was a court date. He said he went to the court date, explained to them that the business had been closed and they kind of just said they were washing their hands of it and I didn't hear anything else about it. Um, >> so he made up that entire lie that they

>> um I think he went I don't know that um

it was actually, you know, wiped clean.

Um I don't think you told me the full extent of it.

>> Well, clearly it wasn't cuz then he turned around and borrowed it from his employer, >> right? Well, somebody showed up that his work. um a deputy or something maybe and with the order to garnish his wages >> instead of doing the garnishment his employer paid it off and they took a lump sum out of each one of his checks.

Um and I didn't found out until about 9 months after his checks had been >> um >> so essentially he tried to avoid wage garnishment by having his employer do it for him. >> Mhm. >> Exactly. Until that was about a year ago.

I found out that and I actually, you know, we have kids and I I was done at that point. He's made a lot of stupid financial decision decisions in the past. And >> but before you go before you keep going forward, I want to keep pulling that first one. So he they were garnishing the wages out of his checks, 14,000.

much? Cuz how did you not how did you not see that >> when >> um he got his own bank account?

>> Separated all of our finances. >> Okay. So finance is totally separate.

Okay. >> So, he he made a lot of moves to hide this from you.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> Like open another bank, then move the direct deposit to that new bank without your knowledge. And then have you guys had separate finances in the past?

>> No, they were together up until about

two two or three years ago. Um and ever since then, it's been Yeah.

>> So, you said this was not the first thing. Give us another example of something because this one's pretty extreme.

Um well, when he had his business open,

I saw um a bill in the mail for um you

know, one of his I guess suppliers or somebody and it was a lot more than you know I had anticipated. I'm going to asked him about it and he was like, "No, it's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong." It said would say he'd take care of it. And then finally when I call, they're like, "No, like we've been trying to get a hold of you. This amount is correct.

This equipment was never returned. your bills, you know, $15,000 >> as opposed to what you thought would have been 15,000 >> maybe a couple thousand. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, these are big numbers.

>> Yes. >> Have you asked him directly, why are you lying about all this? What's behind it?

>> He says that he knows that it stresses me out and so that he's just trying to take care of it himself without me having to know about it. >> So, take care of it means more lies, more hiding things.

>> Correct. And you've made it clear that's not how you're going to rebuild trust in this marriage, >> right? Yes. Um, >> has he fully owned up to all this? Like where is he at today?

>> Well, that was a year ago. Um, you know, and I said that I was done and I was tired of him lying and hiding things from me. Um, and I actually moved in

with the kids with some family and we, you know, he cried and he'll never do it again. And, um, so we decided to work on things. So, we're living with family and collectively, you know, we have probably about $90,000 of debt from this previous, you know, company that he had started that didn't work out. Um, so we

said we'll tackle it together. Um, well,

a few weeks ago, I found out that somebody else had um tried to, you know,

sue him or whatever it was, and he got another loan from this company.

>> Oh. >> This one was only $3,000.

>> Yep. and that um for the past 3 months he's been paying that off and it's paid off now and we were able to pay off the $14,000 one, you know, once I found out about it and I said, "Let's put everything towards it." And so we did that. So I thought everything was good after that. And then >> but you guys, you never you never really sat down and and counseledled your way through this. It was kind of just like, "Let's try it again. Let's try it again.

Let's try it again." And I'm not really >> very defensive. >> I you know, here's the thing. You're telling us this. I 100% believe what you're saying. Uh you said he, you know,

you left him and he cried and all this stuff. I don't know what the what the word is for that, but there's a word for the fact that he's making a mistake, but he's putting it on you by saying, "I don't want you to be stressed. I don't want you to be the one that's upset.

This is too much for you." Like, there's a word for that. I don't know what it is, but I know I don't like it. Um, and

there's just part of this word. Yeah.

You've outlined many instances and yet

he continues to do the same kind of crazy erratic behavior with his debt and with his money. Yeah, I would I would sit down with a counselor and in the

meantime, yeah, I would keep the money separate and I wouldn't do much more on this until you can sit down with somebody and say, "Here's what's going on. I don't know why my husband is continuing to do this behavior. Maybe I

maybe I do have a hand in it. I'm willing to own if I do." Right? and you guys both sit down and until you've given this a fair shake with the help of a professional, you know, that's what I really want for both of you because something is and I'm not um apologizing or giving merit to what he's doing, but something's causing him to do this.

Whether it's some sort of scarcity mind, the way he grew up, some some piece of him is feeling like he's got to control this and hide it from you. I don't know why, and I'm not saying that it's right, but I hope you guys can get to the bottom of it. And if it were me in the meantime, yeah, I would set some really clear boundaries, George.

with money because I got to keep our family safe. So, my question for you, Elaine, is do you earn any money?

>> I do. Um, and you know, combined we do

make a decent. I mean, we bring in about 135,000 >> a year. About 45 of that is from myself.

>> Okay. So, you're bringing in 45. So, what I would say is this. I'd say what would make me feel safe while we're in counseling is for us to put our money

into this account. and I will give you full transparency into what I'm doing with the money, but you you're taking

our money and you're putting it on debt and you're making payments and you're putting us in an unsafe space. Will you go to counseling with me? And if he says no, he won't and no, he won't combine the money, then now that's your that's your chance for you to take that to counseling and figure out what you need to do next cuz you can't control him.

>> Yeah. You you need consistent honesty from him over time and proof through actions. Those are the two things that will rebuild trust. And if he's unwilling to do that, that is him opting out of this relationship. So you need guys need to go through counseling and start to set those guardrails and boundaries and work towards healing.

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I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right, if if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills next week?

>> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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If you are a listener of the Ramsay Show, you are listening to my voice right now. And I'm grateful that you are. And if this show has done anything great for you, I want you to help spread the word. You can like and subscribe to

and share the show um by doing that on whatever whatever platform you're on.

You know, we've got the Ramsay 101 playlist. So, that's a great way for you to share the show on YouTube with other folks. Or if you're a person and you like, you know, looking at our social medias and we post clips from the show and you think they're, you know, funny or helpful, use the little paper airplane icon and hit it and share it with somebody clip. >> You never know who's going to watch it and go, "Hm, tell me more.

>> Tell me more." And it's helpful for everybody involved, especially us. It helps us with the algorithms. So, it's something you can do that's totally easy, totally free, and totally makes a big difference. All right, let's go to Bill in Illinois.

>> Hi. Hey, how are you guys doing? First of all, I want to say that uh it really is a uh pleasure for me with you

allowing me to speak with you today. It is an honor and um I have a question um

regarding uh what my wife would like to do and basically I want to uh find out

what is the best way to convince my wife that keeping cash out of circulation

um meaning out of bank accounts you know that it isn't a good idea and there is a backstory to that if uh you know you'd

like to hear that. >> Sure. How old are you two? Um I am 62

and she is 64 and we've been married for 6 years. >> Okay. And I assume the back part of the backstory is there's some trauma from the past where she is has her security gland is just popping off going uh we cannot keep this money out there. Was there theft in her life? Was there was she poor at one point? What happened?

>> Um well um you're a little bit right.

Uh, it deals with her dad, my father-in-law, and he was placed in a nursing home in 2021 and passed away in

2024.

He had no savings to speak of. Um, and

he had the social security income, which of course was taken by the nursing home, and he possessed several low value properties to include his home, which sold for 40,000 in 2023.

So in addition to Medicaid, the state of

Illinois conducted an audit of his assets that my wife had to painstakingly research to include collecting and

researching, you know, all his bank statements. And she had to account for every penny he had spent for the last 3 years. And that um consisted of going to

the bank and explaining the situation to them and uh you know pulling all those bank statements. And then she had to provide a reason why assets which um he

was a u a mechanic. He had some old cars

and they were sold and she had to backtrack to find out uh when they were sold to whom and for how much.

>> So she's just sick of dealing with banks and she doesn't want Uncle Sam involved.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And it's it was very painstaking and loss of sleep, tears, and of course,

you know, when when a spouse feels stress, >> the other spouse is going to feel that too. And there wasn't much I could do as far as, you know, consoling besides helping the best that I could. And then

after doing our internal audit, making

sure that we have all the documents, they provided a very long checklist that we had to follow. And we did. And that's

to say that my wife did. She's very meticulous. But they kept rejecting

them, stating they were incomplete. All the documents that were uh provided, they'd come up with certain things. No.

No. So here, let me cut you short for a minute because what this what you're describing is the result of poor estate planning. >> It's >> Oh, there's no doubt. >> And inep government bureaucracy on top of that. >> Exactly. >> So both and there. And what you're attempting to do is avoid that completely because what you can do is manage your money properly so that whoever precedes you and outlives you doesn't have to go through the bureaucracy that she had to go through.

Right. So if we can help her to

understand that, I think we can win this battle. >> How much money is she wanting to keep on hand in cash at the house? Uh right now,

um we got uh 25 and uh probably around

75.

>> 25 and 75 or 75 total?

>> 75 total. >> $75,000 just sitting in a safe,

>> right? Um and she says that would make her comfortable. And of course, being her husband, I want to make her comfortable. >> And you guys are not broke if you have 75 grand sitting around.

>> Well, is that the only money to your name? >> No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um, >> okay. There's retirement accounts, there's you have a house, all that.

>> Absolutely. And debt we

>> um well, the only debt we have is the

house, which is uh it'll be less than

102 after our uh payments that we uh

make this month. >> What's it worth? >> Um uh the house is worth 304 according

to Zillow. >> And what do you have in retirement accounts that are invested?

Um, we have a total of uh 652,349.

>> Okay, great. And so she's just saying, "Hey, this 75,000 that's your emergency

fund more than 3 to 6 months of expenses is probably she's like, I don't want to keep that in HYSA. I just feel better having some cash money in a safe in the house." Is that basically what you're saying? >> That is correct. So, if I were to go into a home, she didn't want to be in the same type of situation to where um

I'm retired military, so I feel that I would based on things that I've been exposed to um throughout my military career that I would be the first one to go in. And I just want her to not have

to worry about the same things that she had to go through um with her dad and

his estate. We are more organized. we

have I mean >> you are I can already tell that you are and here's the thing this $75,000 is

neither here nor there in the conversation that you're having the whole idea of uh estate planning and being wellprepared that really has nothing to do with the $75,000. This is a small detail of a bigger estate that it sounds like you have planned. The biggest thing to make sure that she feels good is you both Yeah, you both need a will. you both need to probably sit down and find out is there enough wealth or is there enough uh transferring going on that maybe you need a trust, right?

So th that's the bigger conversation and you guys can sit down and have that. You can take the wills quiz that we have that will decide if you can make a will on the spot or if you need to go a little bit deeper and do a trust or something like that. So that's your homework and when when you get off the phone, Kelly will pick up and make sure you're set up with that wills quiz.

I'd probably split the difference with her. Honestly, I would say, "Hey, sure,

we'll put half in a high yield savings and if we get a safe for the house, we can put half there." I really don't care much on it. Yeah, you're going to lose out on a little bit of, you know, compound growth from the interest, but I particularly with what she's been through, I wouldn't die on this hill. I would maybe, like I said, try to get half of it in the bank. Um, but the bigger conver I mean, do you agree, George?

The bigger conversation is not this 75,000. >> Yeah. I mean, it's a small part of your world collectively. You guys are just about millionaires.

And so, this is not a make or break, but I do think we need to deal with the the scarcity mindset behind it.

>> And there's more risk in her having it in a safe at home than there is having it in a bank account. there is a a higher percentage chance that a natural disaster, theft, loss, inflation eating away on the buying power versus having it grow in a high yield savings account.

There's more risk there than there is of the government's going to come take this money one day to pay for your home to pay have you.

>> I don't know if other states have this.

Um but in Illinois, there's a spousal

impoverishment law. So, um,

hypothetically, if we had separate savings accounts and I went into a nursing home and then, um, where we couldn't or my wife couldn't pay anymore for the nursing home, they would start going after my assets >> and I would feel that would protect. But you're going to have a net worth. Your net worth is going to be so much so that you guys are going to be able to just live off of the interest and that nest egg is going to be there to provide for care because to your point, the average person is only in a nursing home under 3 years.

So, it's not going to be 10 years of draining this account down. And I would personally work with an estate planning attorney to walk her through all this, to have a professional go, hey, here's how to protect the stuff you're talking about. Here's what will and won't happen in the future based on how we set this up.

>> Yeah. >> I'm so sorry you're going through this, man. That's tough.

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Back to the phone lines we go. We got Taylor. She's in Tampa, Florida, my home state. What's up, Taylor?

>> Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

It will be recorded.

>> Are you recording me? >> Thanks so much for >> What's that about, Taylor? Are you still here? You know what? We're going to record this too for quality assurance.

>> Hello. >> Yeah, we're here. We're just we're just making fun of you.

>> Sorry. Yeah. I wanted to record it for my fiance because my question is that we recently got engaged in April and now we

are in the wedding planning process and I wanted to know what you guys recommend for um a budget based on our current

finance date. And then also when we're in a non-traditional situation where most of the wedding is going to be coming out of our own pockets and my family won't be paying for it. How can we split up that given that we do make different income? >> Yeah. Okay. Good questions. So,

is this so that you can prove to him that you're right? So, you're recording it just to >> Is this really a settle the debate?

>> No, just Yeah, just information gathering. Um, and to be fully transparent, I don't know if I've even fully sold him on having a wedding. Um,

>> what he hasn't proposed yet also brought up elopment. Well, he's proposed. We're getting married, but the actual wedding verse the wedding ceremony and the whole party for all of our friends and family versus just the two of us going on a vacation together and probably cutting that cost in a quarter, if not half.

>> What's his argument for aloping?

>> It'll be cheaper. >> That's it. And is it because you guys are in dire financial straits?

>> Dire straits. >> No. So, to give you a little background, um, he W2ED about 180 last year. I W2ed

about 120. I also do some babysitting on the side to try and make up for some extra income. He also started a new company last year and he anticipates to bring in about an additional $100,000 just this year alone. Um, we do have a

house together. So, we broke the naughty rule. That was before we started listening to your show. Okay. Um, and we

bought it in 2021. It was $396,000.

Our current principal is about $320. Um,

our regular monthly payment is about $2,000, $2,400, but we always pay more.

We usually pay between 3,000 and 3500

per month. >> Do you guys split that mortgage evenly payment?

>> Yes, we do. >> So, he's just kind of a little bit he's just being a little stingy with the wedding purse strings is what it sounds like, right? you got money. How much are you looking to spend?

>> So, that was kind of my question to you guys as well is what's an appropriate amount amount based on our current finances. Based on what I've been researching, I'm thinking between like 50 and $70,000.

>> And when would that be? Do you guys have a a date in mind?

>> Year. >> Okay. >> 2026. Probably towards the end, like fall. >> So, let's say one year from now, we need $50,000 saved.

You guys could do that real easily. If you split it up 25 each, let's say, >> could you save up 25 >> in 12 months making 120? Could he save up 25 making at least 180? The answer is yes. You guys have no debt other than the mortgage?

>> Uh, we also have a boat. We owe about 30,000 left on that.

>> Oh gosh. Okay.

>> You could knock that out and save up for this wedding no problem within a year.

So, as far as who's right and who's wrong, I don't think it's a, you know, if he wants to lope, that's on him. But you your dreams and vision is involved now if you're getting married. And so you want to throw a party. Let's have a compromise cuz you are throwing a party for everyone else. >> That's what you're doing. That's really the bulk of the cost of a wedding.

>> And so understand that going in. Decide on a number. You're clearly the like the nerd in this situation. You know your numbers really well.

>> So you run the wedding budget and say, "Hey, here's what we need to save up each month to make this happen. Are you committed?" The only part that I might push a little bit in a different direction, not a different direction, but a little different is the actual split, like how you split it. Um, I might do it by

looking at the budgets because the truth is he makes a decent amount more than you, especially if he's making that additional 100,000 this year. So, he probably has more margin to put towards it than possibly you do. But, I would do that process together. I would sit down.

I mean, I'm saying this from It sounds like you guys have already combined everything, but I'm trying to be correct here. So, I'd sit down and look at your budget and say, "Here's the margin I have." Him look at his paycheck and budget and say, "Here's the margin I have." And then you guys together decide, well, it makes sense that he would put this much and you would put that much based on your own margins.

Does that make sense?

>> Yes, exactly. And I um did also want to mention my parents are gifting us $15,000 to do with it as we please.

Whether that's alopment, whether that wants to go towards our house debt, our boat debt, a wedding, they kind of are just saying congratulations on taking this step. Do with it as you wish. Nice.

>> Um so then we would just have to split the difference. And also I have $130,000

in my bank and he has about $40,000 in savings. So we kind of are are already there. I mean obviously those are emergency funds but that's where it's just you know frustrating getting over the curve of why we can't afford this

wedding when I feel like we are both in a very >> you can he needs to change his language and just get to the root of what's actually behind it and it might just be I really don't want to spend a bunch of money to throw other people a party and that's fine but he still has to put on a you know brave face smile have a good time >> he wants the money to go towards his new business >> yes the business I could buy a new boat with 50 grand anything. Exactly.

>> Well, he's going to have to get used to this because marriage is a team. And the part I don't like about the well my I make this and he makes this. We should Well, that's going to become tit for tat scorekeeping for the rest of your marriage. >> It's going to become, well, you made more this year, so really you should apply more toward this goal and I'm going to apply this much.

That's an exhausting way to live. And I hope that when you're married and it happens sooner rather than later, which you could get married next month with the money you guys have. Nobody needs 130 grand emergency fund, you're doing great. I'm happy for you.

Uh but really, you could have this wedding four months from now. >> Yeah. I >> And then move on with your lives, be completely debtree, throw the rest toward the mortgage, and start to build a life together instead of one that's separate where, well, he made this and I made this, so this is how we're going to do things this year. >> Yeah.

I I'm I 100% am with George.

what is not going to be the case is whoever makes more gets to make the decisions. It cannot be that and it can't start down that that path. So, the good news is you guys have some time to keep having this conversation. Try to have it in a light-hearted way, but take detailed notes because how he reacts to this is going to tell you a lot about who he's going to be.

>> Man, wedding planning will reveal who you really are. >> It sure will. >> It is It's stressful. It's a lot, but it can be a fun season if you do it right and you guys are aligned from the get-go instead of have, you know, bickering about it the entire way there.

That's not going to be fun. >> Does it make it easier when your wedding's free? >> Well, here's the thing, Jade. We had a free wedding, but the parameters around it, we had 50 people.

So, if you guys don't know listening to the show, my wife found a local wedding contest and we won. >> That's so >> back in the day, but they only let 50 people, that includes bride, groom, bridal party, and guests. Has to add up to 50. That's the total amount that we attend, which means we had to exclude most of our friends and family.

>> Yeah. You know, a lot of people. >> So, we had to throw another party later that day, which ended up costing about half of a normal.

>> Exactly. We had a wedding, reception, and then another reception.

>> I don't think I realized that. >> I was exhausted, >> but it was a great time. Highly blessed and favored. >> Oh my gosh, >> man.

Weddings are just that will really test your your you and your future spouse. >> It will. I feel like Sam and I's wedding was pretty smooth for the most part. The biggest thing was I remember getting in kind of a a debacle with another family member who was getting married at the same around the same time.

So around like dates like who was going to get married on which date. >> Oh, here's my take. If mom and dad or mother-in-law and father-in-law want to invite extra people who you don't even know, they cover the bill for those people. >> Oh man, that needs to be written.

>> No, man. Do you know what I read? I read uh a good rule of thumb is when you're making the guest list. So, if you're going down, you're like, "Oh, Bob from college. Should I invite him?" You know, or like Eddie, we used to be roommates, right? You're like going down the list. You're supposed to think about 10 years from that point. like 10 years from now, will me and Eddie, will me and Bob still

be will we still have the relationship we have today? Will it be better, worse?

And kind of like foresee that. And if you can't see them in your life 10 years from now, don't invite them. Which listen, that leaves out a lot of co-workers.

>> Yeah. I'm not getting invited. I know that. I'm getting cut from the list real quick. >> I'm just saying that. And I think about that sometimes if people are getting married around me and I wasn't invited, I really stop and think about it. I'm like, listen, 10 years from now, you're a ghost. like we don't know each other.

>> Be very judicious with your wedding planning friends.

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Well, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck been feeling like you just can't get ahead. Number one, I've been where you are. And I'm going to tell you the antidote is you need to join our free every dollar trainings, guys. There are new trainings every single week this month. And they're all hosted by one of our Ramsay personalities. I actually did one today, George, on my lunch break.

>> Wonderful. >> Yep. And we're going to show you how to stick to the budget and even find up to $3,15 of margin using every dollar.

>> That's impressive. >> It's a lot. 30 days, three grand on the line. >> Come on. >> What do you got to lose? >> Nothing. Your debt. Hey. Okay. That's

what I'm talking about. Plus, you can ask any questions that you might have during a live Q&A that takes place at the end. So, if you're interested in that, you can sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.

Be there or be square. All right. Scott is in Orlando, Florida. Hey, Scott. How can we help? >> Hey guys, how's it going?

>> Doing good.

>> Good. Um, you know, there is some intro music whenever I sign in. I got a feeling that's the last time I'm going to be dancing. Um, I got a bunch of

I've just started listening uh to this show and um and I've realized I need to

make some changes. Um, and so I was just calling for some advice. >> Well, the good news is this is as bad as it's going to get. It's up it's it's going to be easier from here on out. How much debt do you have?

>> I've got about $300,000 in debt. Okay.

>> Break it down for us.

Um, it is most of it student loans. I got about $220,000 in student loans. Um, and then the rest of it is IRS debt. I have about $80,000

in taxes I have to pay back.

>> Wow. Were you self-employed? How'd you rack up 80 grand to the government?

>> Yeah. So, I ended up in both of these situations. After uh college, I term pro at golf and I traveled around playing golf. And so, uh, this year I got

audited for I've been using a schedule C. I got audited for all my tax years from, I don't know, 2015, 16, something like that. And, uh, the auditor felt as

if it didn't cost as much as it as it does for me to play. So, I had some losses on some of those years. And so, he disallowed all of my schedule C's and then said, I owe this money back. So,

>> um, that's kind of how I ended up in that part of the situation. Um, and then the same thing with the student loans is like while I was traveling the world or traveling the country playing, >> um, obviously I wasn't paying back my student loans and that stuff was just racking up. So, >> what was your degree in?

>> Um, I got a bachelor's in business management. I have an MBA and then I'm

about well I was about halfway through a PhD. >> Wow. Um, and um, I decided from at a

point that it was time for me to stop that. Once I started, you know, listening to you guys, I realize all I'm doing is continuing to borrow money and put myself in a deeper hole than I don't believe based on what I do for a living.

Uh, >> are you still golfing professionally?

>> I I am still doing it, but I'm doing it in a much different way to where I'm just doing stuff locally. Um, and if I can get to the point to where I'm, you know, playing at a high level to where I can make some good money doing it, then I will. Um, >> what kind of money do you make?

>> Uh, from from work?

>> Just Yeah, golfing, work, all of it.

>> Yeah, in general, I make about $120,000

a year. >> Good. Are you using your degree right now doing something full-time and then golfing on the side?

>> Yes, I'm working full-time uh just like as a district manager in retail. Um, and it allows me to have a little bit of flexibility to be able to practice and stuff like that during the days. And um, I also have um, a girlfriend I've been

with for a very long time and um, so she makes uh, she makes decent money as well. So that's how I'm able to even be able to still play some and participate some because you know I got to put up all that money myself for these events and stuff like that. So >> are you doing any coaching lessons right now?

>> I do just a little bit. I I I do this

program where I teach veterans um or people that have been wounded in the military. Um and the uh the PGA gives us

a little bit of money for doing those lessons. Um it's not a lot. I probably make like about 4,000.

>> Okay. But on top of that, could you start consistently coaching and doing private lessons because you can make good money doing that locally without having to travel?

That would be a great idea and it's something that I I think I need to figure out how I can just get started doing it. I mean, I'm certified to teach and I >> And you got an NBA so you know how to start a business.

>> That is true. Um, definitely true. And I

lost just so you guys will know. I lost.

I had uh when I was playing I was playing pretty well and my agent stole all of my money and he went to >> No, it's fine. It was my fault. I didn't need an agent, but I didn't know. When you're 21, sometimes you just don't know. shopping.

>> That's tough. >> He stole about a quarter of a million dollars from me and uh and so that was everything I had and then I just started borrowing to try and, you know, keep going and um and that's how I ended up here. So >> So you're back here. You you're back here. You have checked that the 80,000

you that you owe to the IRS is legit.

You actually do owe that money. Good news is you have a good income and a lot of ways that you can supplement that on top which George outlined. So from

there, kind of how can we help? Give us

a a closer look at what your real problem is. Is it just knowing what debt to pay first? Is it having the motivation to put the money on onto the debt and not spend it elsewhere? Kind of where's your pain point?

>> I mean, I'd say that's the biggest thing for me. I I find myself spending money on stuff that I don't feel like I should or even deserve to spend money on. Um, and I just got to make some better decisions. So, um I I was looking for I

just needed to talk to somebody to be honest. I'm just getting going on this and I really wanted to talk to somebody that could um at least maybe have been

through somewhat of it um to just help.

>> Hey, Jade Waraw's been there, man.

Listen, what was it? 468,000 you guys paid off >> when he said his student loans 220.

Yeah, we had 280 of student loans and our total amount was 460 not including our mortgage. So, I kind of feel I kind of feel where you're at. And hey, here's the good news for you, Scott. You're making far more money than Sam and I were when we got started. So, I really I

think for you, this is actually going to go a lot faster than you think it will.

But what I hear, George, is we need a

really strong why. Like, why are you doing this? Because that's going to be the thing that you connect to every time

you want to spend money on something else. Every times gets every times get hard. Every time your girlfriend says, "Let's take a trip to the Bahamas." Right? You need something to tie back to and go, why do I really why is it important for me to get this done?

What's it going to mean for my future?

What's it going to be mean for the life that I see myself living? And I think that it could be a good idea for you to sit down and spend some time kind of just plotting that out like where do you see yourself in 10 years? What does that look like? And be so detailed. Does it look like you having your own golf business where you're teaching lessons and I don't know, I'm just making something up. Does it look like you um I

don't know what it looks like. Only you can know that. But >> do you run a golf shop full time? I don't know. But the the math here is how much can I make and how little can I spend to create enough margin to tackle this without it taking a decade.

>> And so the math there is pretty simple.

If you can throw four grand a month at the debt, you're done a little over six years. If you can throw five grand at the debt, we're done in five years. And so, you can start to kind of get a picture of where you're going to be four or five years from now based on how much you're currently throwing at the debt.

And if you don't like the number you see, increase the income, decrease the expenses. And so, like Jade said, you need to have your I've had it moment. This I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired versus I guess it's time to pay off this debt. Might as well get get a start on this.

I want to feel some urgency here to where you go, I'm going to be working every single weekend. My girlfriend's not going to see me >> and maybe marriage is in the future and you guys combine incomes and that speeds up this whole process. >> Yeah. And I I listen >> I do want to take you to task just a little bit on the girlfriend thing because I don't know and you can stop me if I'm wrong because I I just want to be your friend here.

>> We are living together.

And so it kind of sounds like you're combining your monies a little bit and that's making it feel like you have more than you really have. And I have a feeling that if you were on your own in your own space with only access to your own money, I think you would feel the weight of this a little bit more or a lot more and it would cause you to get that fire lit under your butt like you need. >> So there might be part of this that >> do you see what I'm saying? put yourself in a position to win and to feel the things that you need to feel because you know you're an athlete like you're you're a competitor.

You know what it takes for you to compete at your highest level and sometimes it's that you know what I'm talking about George. You just need that push. That's >> I wouldn't get married as like a a debt payoff hack, but I would get married as an intentional life hack.

>> Interesting. Listen, we're going to finish it off with a hot take.

Get married and pay that debt.

All [Applause] [Music]

[Music] right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and money. Let's get straight to the phone lines. We've got Nicole who's in Washington. Nicole, how can we help today? >> Hi. Um, yeah. So, my significant other

and I have been together for about 5 years. Um, not married. And I've been

contributing towards a mortgage for about four years now. And in addition to that, I have probably also contributed about $12,000 towards house remodel and

property updates. Um, and

we had kind of we we started the conversation that we need to figure out how to protect me financially since, you know, I'm putting money into the home and hadn't really got very far. And then to add to the complication, um, uh, my

sign significant other's father built a

shop on our property. And so now we have

a third party who has basically invested

in the property and we're really stuck as to kind of like where to go from here. >> Yikes. Okay. Well, here's the simplest answer. Get married.

>> Well, I would love for that to be the simplest answer. Um, >> what's stopping it?

Well, a couple of reasons. So, uh, he is

divorced. My significant father's divorce was finalized in 2022.

>> Okay. >> Um, and so he's a little like marriage

shy. His ex cheated on him and then he

like had to pay out a lot of money financially for the divorce. And >> did he go to counsel?

>> He did not. Um, he's not really a big fan of counseling. Um, >> does he want to get better? >> He's a fan of a renter with benefits.

So, uh, I think he can't have it both ways here. You're clearly resentful that you're paying toward this thing that you don't own, which adds a lot of risk to your life, >> cuz if you guys broke up tomorrow, you get nothing. >> And it's been 5 years. It's not like it's been 5 months.

>> I'm actually not resentful. I was fully aware that this might be the case going into the relationship. It was a we're we're both in our 40s. it was a actually a very thorough discussion that it might take him a while to get to the marriage um you know spot again but then there's also >> is there a cut off though cuz 5 years is a long time like let me tell you I admire your you have had patience here and I admire your ability to try to see it and walk in his shoes and understand it from his perspective I think that's great but I what I do think is missing is there's no time frame >> and there's no skin in the game on his part to actually heal and move forward and commit to this relationship other than you helping pay his bills and renovate his house.

>> Mhm. And I think you deserve a little more than that. >> Oh, he he no, he is totally on board that I need to be protected here.

>> So, how can we do that lawfully

um and not just a spitshake agreement?

>> Right. Well, so yeah. So, there's that there. So it's the my financial contribution but now there's also his father's financial contribution toward the property and I had started doing my research but like all these terms kept coming up and I started to get really overwhelmed by everything and also in my search is when I started stumbling across all the Ramsay stuff and so I was like maybe I just need to call >> Yeah, you're right. The father-in-law adding a shop to the property definitely threw a wrench in things. Um,

okay. Let's let's look at this as it is.

So, the house is completely in your boyfriend's name. Yes. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. And you guys, I guess it sounds like you're splitting the payment every month. >> Yeah. So, we basic everything's cut down the middle as far as uh standard expenses go. Mortgage, utilities, all that. >> Okay. And then you've also put $5,000

into a remodel.

>> Uh, no. About 12,000.

>> 12,000. So, >> yeah. >> Here's the thing. Like I'm I'm about to say something, but it's gonna sound ridiculous even coming out of my mouth.

I mean, if you wanted to create some kind of contract, you could get with a lawyer and say, "Here's the amount that I've put in." So, so thus far, and then you come up with a cut cutout, you know, cut off date of once I get to 50,000, here's what must happen, and you know, I also get my 12,000 back and you guys sign it and agree. But what kind of relationship is that?

Yeah. I don't like that's that's kind of where it gets complicated is because I I I don't want it to be just a strict like

>> then your other option is then your other option is you move out and you get your own place and say I live here which is a great idea by the way. I live here, you live there and >> when you're ready to commit, we'll get married and we'll move in together.

>> And mama, there's where your leverage lies right there.

>> That's where it is. >> Yeah, I guess. And it's when I say leverage, I'm not saying it in a negative way. I'm saying it in it's best for both parties. He's not ready to commit. And he said that and that is fine. Like I'm not mad at him. I get it.

That makes total sense. But hear him when he says he's not ready to commit.

And the best way to honor that is go, "Okay, I'm not going to put you in a situation where you're feeling forced to commit or worse where I'm not getting

honored in this relationship. So just live in your own space and date like normal dating people do.

Well, I mean, we like I said, we we've talked about this like he is committed to me like he is not looking to date anyone else. >> I understand that, but he can be committed to you. And if you're talking about what you said, which is how can we keep me safe and you guys both say, "Hey, yeah, we want to keep her safe. Uh Nicole matters here." The best way to do that is one of two things.

You either marry the person and you're protected under law or you live in your own space with your own money and you you go on dates and you hang out at each other's houses and you go to the movies and you date and he's committed to you in a dating relationship. Plenty of people date and they're committed and they don't live together. And by doing that, that's how they protect themselves. >> We're not questioning his his love for you.

We're just saying you're you're very committed financially to him right now and he's uncommitted relationally by law and that's what's putting you at risk right now. So, the question on the screen, how do my boyfriend and I protect our investments? You don't have any investments right now. All you're doing is paying someone else's mortgage and living with them.

Like, I'm not here to, you know, bash you in the head going, "We're not dinosaurs going, you got to move out today because of moral reasons." >> No, it's not moral. >> You want to do, but you're asking us how to protect yourself. It's either move out or get married or do this very complicated contract uh agreement that's going to just make this feel like a business partnership instead of love.

Mhm. >> But those are the only three things we could tell you to do. And I would recommend marriage if he can learn to heal and move forward and rebuild trust, which I feel like 5 years of you being who you are should have proven that by now. >> I think so. But at the same point, I wouldn't recommend marriage if we're 5 years in and he's still not ready to paint or get off the ladder. I would say, yeah, just just wait and see.

>> Backtrack it. And and I even hate to say backtrack because it's not even Nicole, I don't want you to think we're saying go backwards. And I love what George said. It's not even from a moral perspective. It truly is. How do we protect you? The way we protect your assets is to make sure your assets are spent on building your wealth. Because today, the truth is you're a single woman financially. You're not married.

So why would you pair your finances? He could high step it out of there tomorrow and you would be jacked. Cuz today, let's be honest, today you are jacked for the 122,000 and whatever you've put towards rent if you even if you decided to move on, right? So, there's a part of this where it's like, hey, let's cut our losses.

Like, let's cut this combination of money today and it's not out of malice or ill will or the fact that we're not going to be together and you just have your separate place. I don't know.

>> I hope he uh handles this conversation well. I do hope that he's able to heal and move forward with the relationship.

But >> and I wouldn't put it as an ultimatum.

Like I wouldn't do it like that cuz I don't think it is that. I think it's just >> But Nicole can only control what she can control and therefore that might mean moving out if he's just not ready.

>> Yeah, >> man. That's a tough situation, Nicole.

>> It is tough. >> Sorry going through that. >> Yeah, me too.

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Okay. something that George and I were talking about during the break. All right, James, permission to proceed.

>> Trust me, it's good. >> You have to say granted.

>> Okay, so during the break, Sam, uh during the break, George and I were talking about fund money, right? So fun money is an item that when you're married, it's on the budget, when you're out of debt and you know, through the baby steps through baby step three for sure. And it's yeah, it's it's a it's instead of the allowance, you know, people call in, they're like, I gave my girlfriend or I gave my wife an allowance. And we're like, no allowance, fun money, right?

Both spouses should have it as a line item on the budget. So Sam Warshaw, my husband, comes to me the other day. He says, "You know what?

>> Is it ethical? >> Is it ethical? Does it roll over? That's the first question. You roll over unused fun. >> Does unused fund money roll over is number one. PTO. Yeah, like PTO. Is it unused? Number two, saving it up. Is

there a moment that it's like, >> is it too much? >> Is it too much? And where do you keep it when you save it? Is like just in the sock drawer?

>> It depends how you do your budget. >> Yeah. The people need to weigh into this. Okay.

What do you think? Is there a moment where it's like, hey, >> I said he legally found a a loophole in the budgeting system in the matrix that if you had a hundred bucks a month and instead you want to not use any of it and spend 1,200 at the end of the year, >> why not? >> Be my guest. But the question is, is he really not spending anything those months?

Or is he somehow still finagling it in? >> No, the truth Sam most most months Sam does not spend his fund money at all to I spend it because I'm like it's laying there. I'll maybe I'll spend it. I think we need a new rule.

>> I think it can be rolled over. I think it should be rolled over. >> Okay. >> And then maybe when you hit a certain >> Sam, you just got freed, my man.

You're out of jail. You can do what you want now. Jay just said it. >> Get out of jail free.

Listen, am I setting all the other people free out there as well? >> Here's my hot take. If it was I would agree on a certain amount.

>> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> So that it doesn't feel out of line, >> right? Cuz I could see him saving up for a long time and like buying like a golf cart or something. >> Okay. It could be 10 grand, 15 grand.

>> To which I would say, ah, don't spend your fun money on that. Like let's us save up together. >> A new line item. A,000 bucks a month.

In 12 months, we'll have 12 grand for that golf cart. >> 12 grand for a golf cart. Is that how much they are? >> You just told me that.

Now, here's the thing. Golf carts I found. Jade, you can go on Facebook Marketplace and find one for two grand. >> Listen, let's let's get more on that one.

>> But I know Sam Warshaw. He's pretty bougie. He wants it to be, you know, murdered out.

>> Yeah. Just, you know, blacked out. Like all Matt Black. I I think I can see him cruising around the neighborhood.

>> Wow. >> In his golf cart, heads turning, speakers bumping. >> Yeah, you could see that. Listen, it's something to talk about amongst yourselves with your married couple. You know what? We had a call around that like earlier this year. I'll try to dig it up and see what the discussion >> say. Yeah, this is interesting. I like it. Speaking of your budget, speaking of coordinating your money with your family, with your spouse, uh coordinating a financial peace university class is a great way to stay

motivated on your own baby steps journey while encouraging others. Uh if you don't know, financial peace university is a amazing class. It's a system that

we teach the baby steps through basically. And when you lead a class, you get e access to FPU lessons, financial peace university lessons. You get access to the premium version of Every Dollar, which is the allnew Every Dollar we've been talking about, plus additional content and perks free for the entire year. So, there's a lot that goes along with it.

>> That's our gift to you for coordinating the class. >> That's right.

So yeah, basically what that's saying is we don't just put you out there in the world to teach this class. We give you everything you need. We give you the book to teach from. We tell you literally word for word what you can say. Uh so if you feel a little bit nervous about it, you can follow the script. >> I don't do a lot of public speaking. That's okay. We're going to do the teaching part. You're going to coordinate and be the face in the class.

encouraging and supporting your group.

>> Perfect. Couldn't have said it better.

Uh so for this year, we've seen over $75 million in debt paid off and money saved

from FPU classes alone, which is pretty pretty crazy. So if you have a passion for serving others, this is a great way to help others experience the life change that you've seen for yourself. And George, I can tell you when Sam and I were paying off our debt, we coordinated FPU classes every year, sometimes twice a year. Um, and it is it's a great way to stay motivated, keep the material in front of you, and help others in the process. So, if you're interested, go to ramseolutions.comfpu

to get your first class set up, or you can click the link in the description, uh, if you're listening to this on YouTube or a podcast. Alrighty then,

let's go to Teresa in Iowa. What's up, Teresa? >> Hey, how are you guys doing today?

>> We're great. How can we help you?

>> Great. Well, um I owe over $40,000 in

credit card debt. Um and I am

contemplating taking a $50,000 withdrawal from my TSP account to pay

those off because the interest rates are so high on them and just give myself some relief and get a fresh start.

>> And I want to know what your opinion on that is. >> How much is the credit card debt?

>> It's over 40,000.

>> Woo. And it's several It's several cards. >> It is. >> Okay. So, if you were to line them up, smallest to largest, how many is it?

>> Uh, eight. >> Eight. Okay. And are they in

collections?

>> No.

>> Okay. And what's your income?

>> Uh, about 104 a year.

>> 104?

>> Yes. >> Are you single? >> I also uh I am single. Okay.

You also what?

>> Uh I also receive uh service connection from the military of about 2,300 a month. >> Okay. Great. So what's stopping you from just attacking the debt regardless of the interest? Because the truth is if you attack this with intensity, the interest isn't going to be all that much. If you let this ride for 10 years, yeah, that interest would rack up.

>> Um I have been doing that. I've paid off five cards already. Good. Um, but it

just seems like it's just >> it's like whack-a-ole.

>> Yeah. >> Are you doing the debt snowball method?

Just hitting the the smallest balance, making minimum payments on the rest, and attacking that little one. >> That's what I that's what I started doing. Um, and that's how I got the the five of them paid off. But the largest one that I have is um over $13,000. It

was for getting something done in my house that was necessary.

>> How much can you throw at these credit cards every month?

Um, I've been throwing uh about $2,000 a

month at them.

>> Where? So, I'm confused because you have 2,300 coming in that could go to the credit cards alone. So, you're spending all 104 on other things after tax.

>> Cor Well, yeah. On and by the time that

everything is said and done, I have enough left for gas and groceries and a

little bit um after that. But >> that's the part that worries me. You have a great income. uh >> in Iowa too.

>> So where are the bulk of your expenses going?

>> Right now the the credit cards.

>> Is that your is that 40,000 your only debt or is there other debt we should know about? >> Uh just well my house.

>> Okay. What's that? Tell us what your mortgage payment is every month.

>> Uh it's about $1,230 a month.

>> Okay. So that's not the problem.

>> Are you bringing home like six grand a month plus the 2,300 from the military?

>> Uh no. I I'm contributing to my TSP. Um

I just >> 12% and I also had taken out some loans

from TSP, so I'm paying those back as well. >> So you do have more debt.

>> I do have more debt. >> Okay. How much is is that? What are the TSP loans? >> Um there's one for 15 and one for 16,000. >> So let's play this out. You you've tried this scheme before and it hasn't panned out. So, what I don't want you to do is go into more debt to try to pay off other debt because we've realized that's not going to work.

>> Okay? >> And the other reasons are number one, it doesn't change the behavior that got us here. And so, I don't want to see you back in the same situation a year from now trying to, you know, again, play whack-a-ole taking out one debt to pay off the other debt. Number two, it also puts you at risk because you owe your employer back this money to this retirement plan and you're paying interest on that.

And number three, you're unplugging all that growth. So it may feel like, well, it's 40 grand, I'll pay it back. What you really are leaving on the table is hundreds of thousands of dollars if you would just let that money grow. So for those reasons, I would use that amazing income and figure out in a budget where is it going every month cuz you're making great money.

I would pause all retirement investing until you get these credit cards knocked out and you have savings in the bank. >> Yeah. We'll have Kelly pick up and we'll give you our allnew Every Dollar and we'll let you try it out for a couple of weeks totally for free. See how you like it.

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Hey, hey, hey.

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Today's question of the day is sponsored by Y refi. Private student loans and default can feel like a dead end. Trust me, I know. But why refi works with borrowers when other lenders won't, creating fixed rate plans tailored to your ability to pay. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey today. Remember that's the letter Y refy.com/ramsey and it's not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Sam in Texas. He says, "I'm 50 years old with a net worth of nearly $7 million. We have no debt and I'm retired. I want to buy a $100,000 Dodge Viper. My understanding wife is not against the idea, but I'm still hesitant. I've wanted a Viper since I was in high school and it passes the quote burn the money test. Should I pull the trigger and buy the car?

>> Dude, >> goodness. This is like the most humble brag question of all time.

>> I mean, come on.

>> Just buy the car. If you don't like it, sell the car if it you feel that guilty.

But this is a tiny portion of your net worth of your world. And that's how we look at these things as ratios.

>> The other parameter is you don't want more than half of your income in cars mostly because they're going down in value. And so it's not a smart move for your wealth building. You've already built a wealth. you're 50 years old. If you just let half of this money ride out there, you're going to have a very sizable net worth, you know, every seven years that money could double that's invested. So, if you think about that, when he's 64, he could have 14 million if most of this is invested.

>> You're going to be okay. The car is going to go down in value. It doesn't matter for your world. Just go buy the Viper and stop yapping about it.

>> Let me hit you with a tech a technicality. At what point net worthwise do you think the 50 cent 50%

equation dies out?

>> Oh, I think you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Once your net worth is producing enough income to cover all of your expenses and more to where your retirement's covered, you're going to be just fine. Especially at 50, >> the the 50% rule can kind of drop off.

Yeah, I agree with you. Unless their lifestyle is astronomical and they're spending a million dollars a year, which I doubt they are, uh, just buy the car.

And what you'll realize is it's fun and it's still just a car and it didn't change your life. >> Uh, so go do it so that you can say you did it and it's a cool thing and you're going to be looking for heads to turn at the stoplight and uh, eventually other Dodge Viper fans will be looking over.

>> That's right. Very cool.

>> I don't know. I see fancy cars like that. We have a lot of wealth in this county that we're sitting in. Williamson County. >> It is the one of the wealthiest counties in America. I think it's in like number 11 or something. >> Yeah. 11. 11. You're right. >> So, I we see a lot of nice cars and I'm not It's like I'm unfazed by it. And the flashier the color, the more I go, how much attention are you looking for, man?

>> You want to know what though? And this I'm not a car person, but I'll be honest. Sometimes a car will drive by and my husband will be like, "Oh my gosh, like that's a brand new Tahoe or that's a brand new Cadillac." And I'm like, "It is it?" Unless it's like a

sports car, like a Lambo or like something that's really crazy. I typically can't even tell that it's brand new just by looking.

>> Take it to the car wash. You could fool me. >> Just Yeah. I'm happy for you, Sam.

You've done really well. You guys have no debt. You're retired at 50. You're doing incredibly well. Go buy the car.

You've earned it. >> Do it. Love it. All right.

>> That was easy. You got one win in today.

Sam. Sam, send us the photo when you when you get that Dodge Viper. >> Abs. What's your dream car?

>> Oh my gosh. I have no I think cars are just very utility. So for me it's just a new Tesla. >> A new Tesla. >> Yeah. All right. >> With full self-driving.

>> Oh gosh. >> I know. I trust >> you're on your own. >> I trust Here's the thing. I trust it more than my own driving.

>> Wow. That's saying something about you, George. All right, let's go. You trust the computers over your own self? Yeah.

>> Oh, man. What about the other people on the road? >> Yeah. Have you watched them? They all are on their phones. I dare you, Jade.

while you're on the interstate, go see how many people are just staring at their phones while driving. >> Oh, I've seen it. If >> Please let the computers take over because we clearly are not in a spot to do that. >> If you want to give yourself anxiety while you're driving on the highway, just think about what must be orchestrating at all times. The fact that we're not just all crashing into each other is pretty crazy. It's really a miracle. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Judy who's in Michigan. Hey, Judy.

>> Hi. Hi, George Jade. Hey, I have a quick

question. Uh, we've been listening to Dave Ramsey since probably 93 94. We had

bought a 40acre parcel in Northern Michigan as our vacation property >> and we've achieved the millionaire status. >> Kids are out of the house and uh now we're retired and we want to invest like

306,000 into getting a vacation home built on our property. We have a an existing home there, but it's it's beyond repair. So, we're going to have that knocked down, build a new home on it, and we're just very uh anxious about do we want to get rid of our our cushion of money that's

in our uh money market account and invest it in this home. I mean, I think of it as an investment, not a purchase.

>> Yeah. >> And uh we're due to sign papers next

week. And I'm just thinking, what do you guys think? Well, I let me challenge the language because if it's just a toy for you guys, it's not making you money.

It's probably costing you money once you factor in insurance and property taxes.

Yes, there there'll hopefully be some appreciation, but you're not selling it.

>> Just free yourself and go, we've earned it. We've worked really hard. So, how much cash are we talking out of your total nest egg?

>> Well, we have about 1.1 million net

worth. >> Okay. Uh, we're going to be investing probably about 306,000 into this new

build.

And >> what's your current house worth?

>> Our existing home. Yes. 250.

>> All right. And so you have about half a million, a little more sitting in retirement accounts or other savings.

>> Yeah, we have uh investment accounts into a mutual fund.

>> So the question is, can you guys still retire if you deplete it by $36,000?

Will your retirement nest egg still create enough income to cover your expenses in retirement if you remove that $300,000 that was growing?

>> I'm thinking it will. I mean, we bring in between uh social security and our pensions about 80 grand a year.

>> Great. >> And we have uh about 250,000 in our

mutual funds.

>> That's outside of retirement. So, you're not even using you you're living basically only off social security and pinching. You're not even touching a nest egg. >> No, not even. >> How old are you, too?

>> Uh, I'm 67, soon to be 68. He's already

68. >> Okay. And you're going to use, let's say, a 306 out of how much of your

retirement?

>> Our retirement? Well, I just have my net

worth as uh >> cuz you guys have the cash. You're going to use cash to do this, >> correct? We're buying cash. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, if you let's say you let the other let's call it, I don't know, $400,000, $300,000, >> right? >> So, if you just let $300,000 sit in there until you're call it 75, you're contributing nothing to it, you would still have about $600,000 by then,

right? if you didn't touch it.

>> So, you would double your money from 68 to 75 if you didn't contribute anything, but you also didn't touch it.

>> So, the question is, can you survive off social security, pension, and $600,000 to cover you for, let's say, future health care expenses and whatever else, inflation? I think the answer is yes.

>> Do you Okay, cuz that's the scary part.

>> Is everybody in good health? Are you healthy? >> Yes, both of us are healthy. It's just at our age, it's like, do we want to get rid of that cushion?

I mean, because we've always been happy with this cushion of money. >> It's nice to have the cushion. The one thing that makes me think, and I'm not saying that this is enough to change my mind, but the vacation house is on property that that you already own, which means, let's pretend something crazy did happen. It's not like you would just up and sell this property to an outsider because it's on your personal property.

Uh, correct.

right? parcel it out if you had to one day. >> I'm thinking if things went really sideways, we could always just sell the property with the house on it.

>> Okay. >> And have that money, >> just that piece of property. >> I keep saying this is an investment for us, not so much a purchase.

>> But again, it's not going to make you guys money. So, I'm just scared you're going to go, "Well, we're trading one investment for another." Well, one is actually growing and it's going to double every seven years. the other might grow at three or 4% and you're paying the property taxes and insurance and maintenance and upkeep on it. So, I would sit down with a financial adviser.

Do you have one right now that you trust? >> No, we don't. >> Okay. I would jump on to ramseolutions.com, click on smartvester pro. I would have a professional sit down with you guys. Lay it all out. Lay out all the scenarios to give you confidence cuz this is a big purchase. >> It is big. >> I would not trust just a 5minute radio call to go be like, "Yep, boom. We're going to >> drop half our retirement on this thing." I would uh get some more info on that.

But I think you're on the right track. I think you're going to survive either way. And I think it's time to enjoy some of the wealth you've built.

[Music]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Music]

Your Ramsay Show scripture and quote of the day, Matthew 7:16. By their fruit, you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? No, they don't. Trisha Cunningham said, "The individual who says it is not poss. The individual who says it is not possible should move out of the way of those doing it." I like that. Listen. Get out the way. Get out.

She went ludicrous on them. >> Luda. All right. Full Luda. We love to see it. >> Love it. All right. Hannah's in Wisconsin. Hannah, how can we help today? >> Hi. I'm calling um I'm a working

stay-at-home mom currently. And I am

working on baby step one and trying to

think of any possible way I can make that happen a lot faster than what seems to be going on right now.

>> Yeah. What do you think's the holdup? Is it you're putting the money aside and you're just having to pull it right back out? What's happening?

>> I think Yeah. So, I think between bills

and income, limited income, that's the

main reason. But, um there's I mean, I

usually go into town and work with the kids as much as I can. And then when my boyfriend comes home to keep the kids, I work in the evenings. So, I'm going in and out of town twice a day. Sometimes I

already sell what I can. Um, eBay,

Facebook, >> local Facebook groups.

>> Um, one of the things I guess I know that you guys frown upon

um like children savings. I have a few piggy banks that are not earning any kind of interest, just change in a piggy bank, but I didn't know if that's >> When you say kids piggy banks, >> When you say kids piggy banks, are you really saying like, "Hey, I've got children. and they've got money in their piggy bank. Maybe I can tap into that.

Is that what you're saying? >> A ceramic piggy bank you're going to hit with a hammer and get the change out to try to hit your baby step one.

>> Literally, >> listen. Yeah. >> I wouldn't touch the kids money. I mean, what is it? >> It's like $1,000 in there or is it like 20 bucks, 50 bucks? >> Um, well, there's ch there's, you know, cash and change and I don't I don't know. I just kept stockpiling change and any gift money. I guess it's combination of everything in there. So, it wasn't money that they got from a gift or worked for. It's money. Hey, I have spare change. I'll drop it in this.

>> Yeah. >> For them. Do they know about it?

>> No. >> Oh, listen. I might get involved in that. Here's the thing. Let's Let me Let me frame this. >> I just don't know that CoinStar is going to be the solution to our Baby Step One problem. There's something bigger at hand here. >> There is. And George is right. Um there's three things that we need to kind of hit on. Number one, any the equation is always going to be the same.

Whether it's for saving money or paying off debt, hitting a financial goal, it's income, right? You have to have a certain amount of money coming in and it's outgo. You have to cut back on the money that's going out. Something tells me you're at a barebones budget. I don't know that you are. Are you?

>> Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we don't we don't have internet. We don't have cable. We don't have >> Okay, then that means it's an income problem. That means it's an income problem because most people, here's kind of a parameter and you can kind of gauge yourself on this. Most people do this, George, in 30 days or less. Like baby step one should be a 30-day kind of deal where you're going so you're like a flash, like a streak of hot, right?

You're selling everything. You're working crazy hours. You're doing this in an extreme fashion to get this done in 30 days. It shouldn't be a months and months ordeal. And the fact that it is that makes me think you guys are really low on the income. So tell us about that.

>> So I used to um I have a four-year-old

and a 2-year-old. They used to be in daycare. I had a very well-paying job at the time and it daycare was getting out

of control as far as cost. Um, it was $510 a week for my two kids to be in daycare. And my net was a and without

knowing the exact details of recalling the retirement contributions and stuff, I was netting about 200 bucks a month after all my expenses. So, decided to

quit my job and stay at home to try to save money. Um, so that kind of got me to where I'm at right now. >> But you said you have a boyfriend. So, are you guys living together and he's covering the expenses?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I also bring in about 30,000 a year, too. Um, >> I think that's part of the This is complicated relationally, and it's making it complicated financially.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. The 30,000 a year is is tough.

Like, that's going to be tough to live on. Um, >> yeah. >> And how many kids? I'm sorry.

>> Two. >> Two kids. How old are they?

>> Four and two. >> Four and two. Okay. >> So, are you bringing home like two grand a month right now?

>> Yeah, that's the goal. I've I do, you

know, your all your delivery independent

contractor type. I was on like three apps at one time just to continuously have offers coming in to go go

>> when I'm in town with the kids and after. >> Now, you're juggling a lot. I mean, staying at home plus doing all that and making 30 grand is impressive, but making two grand and trying to save up one of those while covering all the expenses on your own, that is tough.

Yeah. So, what is what's the future look like for you and boyfriend?

>> Well, hopefully marriage. Um, and once

the kids are back uh school age,

hopefully going back to work. One of the biggest hiccups that about 2 years ago we bought a car that were underwater and now we owe about 10,000 more than it's worth and it also needs a lot of repairs. So then I sit there and scratch my head. Do I save up money to get the repairs done >> just to sell it?

>> Because it's going to be repairs plus the difference. >> Yeah. >> Just to get it sold. >> How much debt do you have total?

>> 39,000.

>> Okay. And you're able to make minimum payments on all of those debts and cover all of your bills right now?

>> Yes. >> You're not behind. You're not going into debt anymore.

>> Correct. >> Okay. That's good. >> So you're just sort of breaking even every month without much to throw at your baby step one. Very minimal. Very minimal. But that's why the the baby step one's taking forever, I guess. >> But think about it. You're you're trying to pay off 39 grand, making 30 grand a year.

>> The math isn't going to math as long as you're a stay-at-home mom without a

spouse that's also supporting you financially. >> Hannah, >> his income, too, is factored into all that. >> What were you doing before you were doing all of the Instacarts and delivery apps? What were you doing before that or that has that kind of just been what you've been doing as work?

>> No, in October I left my job at Fredo.

>> Okay. And what were you making there?

>> Um, between 60 and 62.

>> Okay. So, that's that's our goal. We got to find something that you can do to get you back up to that earning potential that you had before, which I think could be even further beyond that. Um, but I

think it's going to cause you to have to get out of your comfort zone a little bit and really stretch for this because the truth is there are work at home positions. There are things that you can do with a flexible schedule that can earn you more than $30,000. So, I think that's where you're I think that's your homework. I think that's where your laser focus is going to be is what can I do with the time that I have because the kids they're back in daycare now or are you taking care what's what's the current state?

>> No, they're not.

>> Okay. >> And then I have another two years with the little one before she starts school.

>> Okay. And the boyfriend or whoever's in your life, is there anyone in your life that you can that can provide some bit of child care in the day?

>> We're 2 to four hours away from any family and we don't we're both new to

the area. We don't know very many people. >> What caused you to go out there?

>> Um distance from the city. We're We're not city folk.

>> Okay. >> We like to Yeah, we like to be out in the in the sticks, as they would say here. >> Well, there's part of that that you're cutting off work opportunities for you.

You're cutting off, like you said, relational opportunities to get help in the areas that you need. So, this is a

complex problem and I think it's going to c like you need to sit down and have some real discussions about where the priority lies because if you call in the show and say, "Hey, I can't save $1,000." And then we find out half the reason is there's no jobs around here.

There's no family to help with daycare around here. Hey, but we like living out in the sticks. Do you see what I'm saying? Something has to shift in that priority. Um, >> we need a different variable here to change your result. So, are >> you recommend me going, you know, one of the things I discussed was going back to work, but we felt like we would be back to square one. All most of the income would just be absorbed with daycare.

>> Not if you can get the 60,000 that you were getting at Fredo Le before. Because why did you stop that job?

>> You see what I'm saying? >> Well, I think like I said with without me just me recently just catching on to

Dave Ramsey's methods, I think I was probably contributing too much to my 401k. You know, you were doing too much at >> Yeah. taking home more.

>> We now know that you have the capacity to earn, right? 60 65,000. And that's

really what you need to be looking for.

Listen, I trust you can do this. All right, guys. That does it for the show today. Thanks for hanging out with us. Remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 248. You Can't Build Wealth While Buried In Payments | August 8, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoM6Mc0boiQ) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:05 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people, build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show on the Ramsey Networks. Ramsay

personality and my daughter. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Emily is in Missouri. Hi, Emily. How are you? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. Well, here's my situation. Um, I

started my job at 19 and I invested in

the 401k that the company has and I

married my husband when I was in my late 30s. My and now I'm in my early 50s. My

mom wants to downsize, but she

I want to buy her a house so she could free up the equity in her house and be able to retire cuz she's in her mid70s.

And my hus I want to do it to where I

kind I want to pull it out of my 401k and buy this, but I also want to

not stir up problems with my current husband, you know, because he's financially selfish.

He likes to spend the money. He doesn't.

I asked if she can move in with him with us. He said no. I said, "Let's go find

another house big enough for all of us." He said, "No." I said, "Then fine. I'm going to buy a house for her." He said, "No." And I really want to do this for her so she can retire with her. She could she

could retire. I don't want her have to work for the rest of her life. So, I want to know how I can do this. if I can pull money from my 401k, put it into her

uh trust, and then buy the house through her trust so it's protected because I would hate for something to happen to me and then him kick her out of a home that I purchased for her.

>> You know how dysfunctional this sounds?

>> It's so dysfunctional. He has so many red flags and I can't do anything because I'm in love with his children because I don't have any children. I'm in love with his children and his grandchildren. So,

so that's where we're at. >> Okay.

All right. Well, um I think what you're

trying to accomplish is noble. How

you're trying to accomplish it is whacked. >> Yeah, I know. >> Okay. So, uh number one, if you pull money out of your 401k and you're in your 50s, you're going to pay a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So, it's going to be like borrowing money at 35% interest. No, that would be stupid.

We're not doing that. >> Uhuh. >> Not borrowing money. You wouldn't get a mortgage at 35% interest for to buy your mom a house. That's dumb. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you're not doing that. That's that's >> okay. >> Your husband's smart. That's not being selfish. Um it is possible that he

doesn't want to her to live with you because he doesn't like her.

>> Yeah. Oh, that's true. >> That's not necessarily being selfish.

It's just having good boundaries.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I like Winston Cruz, Rachel's husband, a lot, but I don't think he would let me live with them.

>> Yeah, I would I would let his dad live with us for Yeah. No, I get it.

>> I mean, that that's that's okay. That's not It doesn't make your husband either >> selfish, right? Right.

>> Right off the bat. There's a possible other scenarios. And the other thing you don't want to do is you don't want to

um be deceptive with your spouse. That's not ever going to lead to a positive situation, right?

That's going to end up in that's going to end up in ashes, particularly on a huge purchase.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> So, her home is worth what?

>> Uh she could probably sell it for, I

don't know, 280, >> maybe 300. >> And it's paid for.

>> Uh no, it's not. She Yeah. What does she

owe? >> She owes 80,000.

>> Okay. So she could get a couple hundred grand to go do something with if she downsized. >> Instead, you were wanting her to invest that to live on. >> How old is your mom?

>> 72. >> Okay. Is she still working?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And she's taking social security probably. >> Yes. Not much though. My dad we they own businesses my entire life and so he didn't think to pay in for her, but he made sure to pay in for himself.

>> Okay.

Man, Emily, I don't know. I'm a little speechless. I'm not gonna lie.

>> It is. >> Well, and I just wor I'm like I I'm just

concerned for the health of

obviously your marriage, but just your

um just just your enjoyment of life. I'm

like, you know, when you're in a situation that you feel it sounds like you're staying in because of his kids and you love his kids, even though >> you could still have a relationship with them even if this marriage, you know, didn't work. I don't want I don't want you to divorce him, but I do want to see that part of your life healed.

>> The proper answer now you the way you presented it was he said no. He said no.

He said no. That's not a proper >> answer. He He doesn't even want to mow her yard. He'll go and mow his 90-year-old father's lawn, but he won't mow hers. So, she >> That's irrelevant to this discussion.

Okay. I might not want to mow her yard either. She might at me about it.

So, >> that's true. >> You know, there may be re legitimate reasons for that, too. So, but aside from that, >> the um he he it's possible that he's looking at and saying, "Okay, moving in." He he may have not done a good job explaining why he said no, or you're not giving us that information, one of the two. But he may have said, "No, I don't want her to live with us.

I don't think that that's going to go well relationally. She and I don't get along very well." That's a good reason for a no. No, I don't think you ought to buy her a house coming out of your 401k. And by the way, Emily, I just told you that.

>> Okay, I told you why, but I also told you no. >> And so, um, you know, I could be painted with the same brush after this call.

um, you know,

I'm going to go back to what Rachel said. I'm going to go back to let's start solving this within the framework

of a positive relationship in a

marriage. >> Yeah. >> A positive way to approach the relationship in the marriage. Honey, this really means a lot to me. I

understand you don't want to live with us. >> I I understand that. Okay, that's fair.

Totally. >> I understand you don't want me to take the money out of the 401k. And Dave explained to me that it's a huge cost.

And so now I understand why you don't want to do that. but this is very important to me and I do have some money here and um you know help me figure out

a way to do this and instead of like I'm going to hide this from him and I'm going to put it in a trust where he can't do something about it later and >> if you're going to do all that crap you should be divorced. >> Yeah. Well, you're just I mean you're enemies at that point. I mean there's nothing about you're working together.

It's just I don't know. And and my question would be too I mean they may not even have the money >> to go Yeah. They may not be able to if the only way you're able to is to cash on your >> That's a possibility, too. I mean, Sharon may Sharon may want to do something. Winston may you may want to do something and Winston looks at you and says, "No, we don't have the money

without cashing in a 401k legend and no, I don't want Dave living with us." And you know that that's okay.

I mean, these are good. That that's that's all fair. >> That's what a little bit of what I'm like I'm trying to discern to help Emily because she's obviously one that called.

>> Yeah. >> Who wanted it. But I feel like everything that was said I I mean more to him of like yeah there's something here. Now granted we want to help >> help your parents. I mean there's a level of honoring them that is wonderful. Um so I want to get to the root of why their relationship is so terrible. Right. If Winston and mom had a terrible relationship, >> you know, there's something >> you're going to have a hard time talking Winston and giving money then. Yeah.

>> Right. So um I don't know.

>> Yeah. I would not do your plan, Emily.

I'll say that much. Um, >> but I I didn't hear a way for you to do this. I can't help you with this. What I will tell you is if I were in your shoes, I would work on working with your husband and finding a way to do it by him understanding this is very important to you.

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[Music]

Hunter is in Michigan. Hi Hunter. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are you Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so I got some debt and also I got specifically one debt I have a question about. Um, when I was younger, I'm only

21 now, but when I turned 18, freshly 18, my mom kind of had me cosign on a loan for her for a car.

>> Good. >> Yep. The car cuz she has terrible

credit. Um, and >> you didn't have any?

>> Yeah, I know. I didn't I didn't have no credit and I didn't know anything about finances at all back then. Um, but uh

she had me cosign on the loan and then the car got repoed and now the loan is

on my credit as well and I don't really know. I don't know if I should just pay it or if uh I should or if there's any

other way to kind of get out of it.

>> Wow, Hunter, that's financial abuse by your parent.

I'm sorry. It's completely immoral.

Um, so do you have any information on how much the uh deficit amount is that they're trying to collect after the repo?

>> It's about 10,000 is how much is left, but um the but it's been like a year or

two since it got took taken. So it's been to collections by now. So, I don't really know what to do there cuz I know you >> your your damage to your credit report is going to stay there. The only thing we can do is limit the damage by settling your portion of the deficit.

Okay? >> Yeah. >> And so what it amounts to is after you finish what I'm going to tell you to do, and it's going to take you a little bit of effort, but after you finish this, it will show that you have been repoed because you have, and that you settled the deficit. So, it's like a bad debt that you settled, >> right? >> Okay. Which is better than just a bad debt.

Like way better.

>> Okay. On as far as your credit bureau goes. All right. Not that worried about your credit. I don't want you doing this kind of stuff again. And hopefully you stay away from your mother when it comes to financial transactions.

>> Um, >> yeah, I've definitely learned my lesson.

>> Yeah. So, uh, do you have any contact

with the company that is trying to collect the deficit?

Uh, they've sent me some letters, but other than that, no. >> Perfect. Okay, pull that letter out.

It's got a phone number on it. Call them. >> Okay, >> we'll do. All right, >> let me give you some real clear information. All right, their job is a

game.

Their job is to screw with you when you get on the phone. Okay, your job is

first you give them no information

except that phone number which you could block if you need to later. Okay, got

>> and then you tell them the truth. Okay,

I was 18 years old. My mother asked me to co-sign this. I had no idea I was

doing it and your company let me to be taken advantage of. I'm considering suing you.

Okay. >> In other words, we're going to start with the offense instead of a defense.

But I think I'm not going to I think it would be cheaper if as a 21-year-old

who's broke and you can't get anything from me cuz I don't have anything. It

might be cheaper for both of us, if we just settled my portion of this. You can

chase her for whatever you want to chase her for, but I want to settle my portion of the $10,000. I have $1,000 I'll give

you for that.

>> Gotcha. >> Okay. You're probably going to be able to pull that off and about six conversations putting up with abusive,

moronic individuals on the other end of the phone. And you'll probably be able to negotiate that for $2,000 or less. my

portion of this settled. Remember this

phrase, settled in full. And I've a got

to have that in writing.

B, you will not have electronic access to my personal checking account. I will wire you the money or send you a prepaid $1,000 debit card.

Okay? >> Okay? >> Because if they have access to your checking account, they're scum. They'll clean you out. They lie.

The collections business is filthy.

>> All right? So you and they lie, so you have to have it in writing. An email is fine. >> Okay? Do not give them your social security number. Do not give them their place of employment. Do not give them anything that will make it easier for them to collect this debt. And every time they start being abusive, say, "Okay, you have 5 seconds to stop that or you're going to get a dial tone. You want to hear a click. Stop that.

click, >> okay? >> And just hang up on them and call them back the next day. Last I talked to over there started abuse. Don't try that or I'll give you the click.

Instead, let's have a conversation. And you just got to have this aggressive,

abrasive approach. Um, you don't have to

be mean or nasty or cuss them or yell at them. It doesn't do any good. They're going to try that with you because they know if they can get you afraid or angry, you will be irrational and give them money.

So, their goal is to try to get your pulse rate up when they got you on the phone. You following this? It's a game.

It's a game. And you're going to be cool like you're playing a hand of Texas.

Hold them.

>> Okay? Just chill. All right?

>> And if you feel your pulse rate going up, just hang up.

Do it another day. Okay? >> Take two breaths. Don't don't drink two cups of coffee before you call them.

>> You know what I'm saying? This is this is a real You've got to play this all the way through. 21 years old and you've been screwed and I'm trying to help you walk through this. All right, >> Hunter, do you have money? Do you have anything saved? >> I I don't I just started a new job as a

truck driver. I just got my CDL. I'm like within I'm in my first week of being by myself as a truck driver. Okay, >> good.

You'll have $1,000 pretty quick then. >> Yep. >> So, you can offer him $1,000 by the end of the month. >> And >> what percentage of a cosign though is his >> it technically it's what's called joint and servo.

He's technically liable for the whole thing. >> Right. That's what I was assuming.

You know, that that's the point. And besides that, I kind of want to turn them loose on her >> for doing this. >> Do you have relationship with her, Hunter? Do you know where she is?

>> Uh yeah, I talk to her all the time. I just don't give her money or anything like that anymore. >> Yeah. And there's no chance she's going to get get this settled and get it off your also. >> That's what I'm wondering if like where she is in this process at all. >> She's broken out of control and has been for a long time. Yeah, she she works at a fast food restaurant and she's behind on her rent and all sorts of stuff. She don't have money at all.

>> Oh man, I'm so sorry, Hunter.

>> Yeah, but you this I'm asking you to do something that's over your pay grade, but I think you can do it. I think you're sharp.

>> All right. >> And listen, what you do, go back and listen to this episode and write this stuff down in writing. No information.

Be tough. hang up. No access to your

checking account. Okay? And that's the that's the process you deal with. So, you're stonewalling. You're building a wall around you and then you're just throwing offers over the wall and until

they pick one of them up, you just keep throwing offers. >> Well, and the positive thing is that it's been in collections for what, two years, he said. So, at this point, >> they they have and if they looked down and saw your age, they think they've got zero probability of collecting this cuz statistically they do. >> Yeah.

statistically the chance >> well and he has no money right now so the truth is yeah there is none but I don't want him starting I don't want him to be hassling the truck driving company him lose his jobs because they found out where he works right >> and they'll do that >> it's illegal but they do it all the time >> so you know you've got to just set up these walls and and the reason I know these people are scum in this case is because they took the co- signature of an 18-year-old for his mother who was broke and didn't pay bills this is how you know this company is scum.

>> But it's probably is it that company still though, >> even if it isn't, they bought that paper and they know what they bought. They know exactly what they bought. >> They know what kind of paper they got into. >> And so, you know, not all collectors are scum.

All credit card collectors are 100% of them.

misbehave and break federal law pretty regularly. There's like a hometown collections company in your small town that's trying to collect medical bills or something. They're probably okay.

Mhm. >> Most of them don't violate the law every day. But there's the Federal Fair Debt Collections Practices Act that gives clear understanding what you're allowed to do, not allowed to do. None of that has entered into this conversation yet, right? But he's walking into he's walking into a haunted house and stuff's going to jump out around every corner.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. is there's new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. Either George Camel, Jade Washaw, or Rachel Cruz. Rachel, when are you doing the next one?

>> I'll have to look at my schedule. I'm only looking a day at a time right now. It's back to school week, so my mind is mush. Probably next week, though. Yeah.

It's usually like once a week or every other week we all kind of switch off. Yeah, >> that's about right. Because there's three of you and we're doing >> I could have made it up, but I'm being honest. >> Yeah.

Well, it's okay. It's that it's gonna be soon. There it is. One of one of you will be on there every time we do it.

So, uh, they show you how to stick to a budget and find an average of $9,560 of new money margin laying around to throw at this stuff.

There's stuff in there. >> Well, and what's great about it is the digital coaching part when with the new every dollar, what you're signing up for and going through this process, they're able to see, I mean, via the digital world, which is amazing. It's like, oh, hey, here's this, this, this, this, like I mean, >> list it out for you. You'll do those five things, you got 9,000 bucks.

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They've done a they've done a great job. >> There's 16 things you can do to ratchet your way through the baby step. >> I mean, seriously. Yeah.

It's incredible. >> Now, ask us any question also during the live Q&A. Sign up for free for the free every dollar training. It's free.

Did I mention that?

Joyy's in Pittsburgh. Hey Joy, what's up?

>> Hi, I'm doing good. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> That's great. Um I am calling because um

I'm a newlywed. Uh my husband and I were married in January. Um however,

unfortunately recently we've been having some marital troubles. Um he's currently in impatient rehab. Um I discovered his alcoholism back in June. Um and so right

now I don't know when he's coming home.

Uh my biggest um hope and my heart's desire is he gets his head on straight and he does everything he needs to do.

But I was curious to get your advice on how to change our philosophy for our marital finances when that time does come that he does come home. Um I would

normally take that perspective. I know you often advocate that what's his is mine, what's mine is his. >> No, you don't do it in this case. Ours bucket. >> Yeah, you don't do it in this case. >> Yeah, that's what I anticipate. So, in that stages of recovery, >> for a while, are you doing Alanon?

>> I am. Yeah. >> Good. Okay. And so, you got somebody in your corner talking to you about dealing with an addict in your home. And so, um,

>> what what you've got to do in the overall picture, and I'm not a coach or I'm not a PhD in counseling like Dr.

John Deloney, but for 30 years, we've helped people with financial problems, and 100% of addicts have financial problems. So, I've worked with a lot of it. Okay? A lot.

>> More than I've learned, more than I wanted to learn. So, here's a couple things that people in that world say all the time. As long as he is dealing with an addiction, he's a manipulative liar.

>> Yes, he is. >> Okay. And until we get the addiction in the rearview mirror or the bulk of it in the rearview mirror, depending on your view of addictions, um he he can't be

trusted. And so he can't handle money.

>> I know >> he doesn't get to handle any of the money. >> Okay. But he does get the information.

>> He does get the dignity of speaking into it. >> You go over it with him. you show him what you're doing. Um, you say, "This is what our money came in and here's what we're doing with our money. Here's the budget. He can participate in that, but he doesn't have access to the money."

>> Mhm. >> Period.

Because I for his sake cuz it'll it's

one because if he has no money, it's going to be harder to buy alcohol.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. He doesn't get any money. um he he he's you're taking care of him, but you have you know he can have he can see that what the balances he can look at the everything with you help you make the decisions and then as trust is rebuilt then obviously he rebuilds in in several

areas of your lives um he can be trusted

over time and trust is earned with time

>> there's a direct correlation and so I came home from rehab and she doesn't trust me. She shouldn't.

>> Okay. It was six years ago I came home from rehab and I've been dry. She should.

>> Mhm. >> You see the difference? And so yeah, that that he's been, you know, you get you get your 10ear coin, your 5-year coin, whatever, then then Yeah. And game on. So, um, we want to walk with him and

help him, but also we want to cut off the the supply. Uh, and that means he just doesn't have access to money in the near term. But he again does have the full dignity as a partner in your marriage of speaking into it, having an

opinion. None of that's invalid unless he's drunk.

>> His brain still works.

Okay. And so >> Mhm. >> Uh it just gets drunk sometimes. So but uh but if he's sober sitting at your kitchen table and y'all are looking at this and he has an opinion about what we ought to do with our money, that's valid. But as far I'm just talking about physical access to any funds. You know,

take him off checking account.

>> Okay? >> It all goes into your name and you handle it until we get some comfort

here. All right? And uh and you can guys

can establish some st you can talk about it with the counselors, you can talk about it with Alanon, he can talk about it with his sponsor, he can talk about it with his counselor, uh he can talk about it with whatever follow-up he's got with rehab on when is appropriate to begin to, you know, let him back in and rejoin in more of a uh more of a a

healed marriage money situation. Does

that does that all sound fair?

>> Yeah, that completely makes sense to me.

um particular like right now he's been in a pivot career-wise. So it's even the last few months I've been the only income. So that's definitely where a lot of tension has been for us um in terms of that. So it even >> How long did y'all date before you got married?

>> Uh we we were dating for a couple years, but I'm pretty sure that I he just I 90%

of the drinking was when I was asleep or didn't know about it. So I >> Wow. Complete closet guy. >> Really good at hiding that. >> Yeah, he's very closet guy. So I I'm pretty sure I don't know. sober version of my husband because I don't know, you know, >> how's he been doing? How's he been doing in rehab?

>> Um, it sounds like he he's improved. Um, there was a bunch of drama a couple weeks ago with him trying to leave. Um, but he he ended up going back. So, I think now that he went back, he's he it sounds like he's more focused, but it's it's early to know.

It's, you know, it's we'll kind of >> You sound very counseling. You sound very solid and confident >> in how to process this and where the boundaries go. >> You sound pretty strong. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We're going to do um I've talked to them with the boundaries and like we'll do marriage counseling, but it's going to be when he gets 90 days, 100 days sober or whatever it is because um they have a really good family programming at the rehab we're at. So, they great they've talked through the boundaries and empowered us a lot on that side. >> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> uh, you know, we always have an asterct and this is it, Troy. This is the perfect example of it. And so there is um, yeah, a higher responsibility for you to protect yourself in it, right?

And if um and if sadly you know it it it

doesn't come to fruition and he doesn't choose a path of sobriety and and you have to make a harder call right um you you will have more of the means and ability to be able to do that too. So there is this level of protecting your current state and then also the unknown of the future that's really I mean I'm assuming it's kind of left up to what he's choosing for his future, right? Is going to impact >> uh if you move forward or not, which is just so heartbreaking.

>> Two family members with a 10-year coin, >> you know, not not immediate family but yeah >> but u and real proud of them. They're heroes. >> That's that's a hard run. I was talking to an author that wrote a book about 12step and he said those 12step meetings are more like church than church sometimes. So it's it's powerful.

>> Hey Joy, I tell you, speaking of that, speaking of that, Henry Cloud has a great book that will help y'all. Look up this and order it on Amazon right now.

It's called Trust >> by Henry Cloud. How to lose it, how to reestablish it, and what are the steps.

It's really, really good. It's a great book on trust. Henry Cloud.

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>> My or this today's question comes from Susie in Michigan. My husband and I have recently become debtree, including our house. My siblings know this and have started coaching their toddlers to call us Big Money. They encouraged their children to say things like, "Hey, Big Money, we want to go to Disney so you can go and pay for so can you go and pay for us?" We thought it was a joke at first, but now it happens all the time.

We've told them that we prefer to be called aunt and uncle, but nothing changes. for family gatherings. It's assumed that we will host the celebrations at our house with no offers to contribute. I don't mind having people over, but I feel like this behavior is disrespectful. How do we approach this? Some of my siblings are very frugal. >> Fragile. >> Fragile. Thank you. I was going to say frugal uh emotionally wise and blow things out of proportion.

They're fragile. >> A >> I wish they were frugal. I wish the other word was true, but it's not.

If you're fragile and you send your kids in to say stupid things to adults, you better be expect to have your little fragile broken.

>> Okay, we're probably going to have different approaches to this situation.

>> Yeah, it's not the kid's fault, but yeah, I'm probably going to sit down with sis and go, "Hey, your kids being a brat. Stop it." Seriously.

>> Yeah, it's going to probably be a >> different approach.

>> Okay, Rachel, what's the nice version? I yeah I mean I would sit down and say hey y'all I know this is funny and you know you think it's cute and all of it but also I don't want this to become a pattern of who we are in their lives and it has been and so we would love for

them to stop calling us big money asking for trips all the things we just want to be aunt and uncle and okay that that would be the conversation point with the kids and then the other things family gatherings and stuff I would I would uh I don't feel like there needs to be a conversation around that I think you put up your own boundaries and say, "Sorry, we can't host this time, you know, and you just say >> it's not convenient." >> You just say no some of the times and and if not, say, "Okay, yes, we'll do this, but we need um >> need you to do this, this, and you need to bring dessert and you need to bring the meat." >> I need Yeah.

I need to delegate some of the responsibilities.

I think that's fine, but the whole kid thing. >> Yeah. I mean, I would I would not call I would not call my niece and nephew Bratz to my in-laws or to my sister and

>> yeah, >> Bill, her husband. I wouldn't be like, "You're >> But you wouldn't either. Don't you kind of act tough, but you would not call your >> I Yeah, I'm going to go, you know, they need to stop that. That's br might at least say they're bratty.

>> That's being bratty. And you're teaching them this and you shouldn't, >> you know." Yeah, I'm going to call it out. I mean, that's really ridiculous.

>> Yeah. >> And um it's really not funny.

>> And well, it's not. And Susie, it's the

parents are being butts. And what what it's passive aggressive and a little jealous. >> What kicks me off is they're sending their kids to do their dirty work. They

want to make this point and they're too cowardly to do it themselves. So, they got their little brat kid doing it.

>> I'm serious. That's the thing. That's just that's parents being wusses. And the It's the parents. I'm like, this is this not fair. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I just it's just wrong.

So, yeah. I mean, and so don't send your kids to do your dirty work, you know. Do if you want to say something, make a make a statement, but you don't have to send your four-year-old in. It's just silly and it's not funny. It's passive aggressive. All right. Will's in Kentucky. Hey, Will. What's up?

>> Hey guys, I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. How can I help?

Uh, so basically I'm 22 years old and uh

I'm doing pretty decent for myself and a

couple of my really good friends are starting to get out of college and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to allow them to move in uh to the next house I purchase with me without paying rent just to help them to save up for a down payment.

>> Probably not.

>> Okay. Yeah, I think I think it's you're a very nice guy.

>> Um I probably wouldn't do that. I I don't think it's going to end well for you or them. >> Um the only way I would do it would be say something like, "Okay, here's how much the rent is and for the first 3 months you get free rent >> and you I want you to put that towards your down payment." Okay? Or something like that. But this just you live here free and there's no set

>> structure to it.

This could go on a really long time and it could turn the friendship sour.

>> Okay. So, my original thoughts were to just have a set limit and basically ask for help around the house and then like the set time frame of how long they could stay there. So, still again uh you don't think that's a good idea? >> I I I would have some money in the process because I think it'll good for them and I don't think it keeps them from getting a house.

>> Being a roommate is the cheapest way to live even if you're paying for it.

Okay. >> So, for them, for them, it's still a bargain. >> Yeah. It'd be a deal for them just to still live in the house and pay, you know, a low rent versus getting their own apartment, right? I mean, it would be cheaper to live with you, even if they paid rent. But, if you guys split the mortgage, right, by four or something, that's probably going to end up being way cheaper than them going getting a onebedroom somewhere. So, you're kind of giving them a deal for the circumstance, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. And if you want to, like I said, if you want to give them the first three months or something, I'd do that. But I I just think it sets a tone that you're probably not going to end this well.

>> Um, >> okay. >> You know, we we had a I bought a uh an investment property. Uh my son moved into it um when he came out of college

>> and was one of my tenants. It was a uh uh you know, multiple bedrooms. And so we moved some of his friends in with him that we knew. They were family friends, good guys. Matter of fact, a couple of them ended up coming to work here. And uh we moved them all in, but they all paid rent. They all paid rent and and we

didn't charge them, overcharge them, and we didn't, you know, it wasn't free, but they got they got a good deal. Um and but it was just good to keep the relationship lines really really clear.

It doesn't get blurred. And um you're a

very generous guy and I appreciate your heart on that. I want you to keep that heart. I don't want to destroy that.

That's not what's wrong with the picture. What's wrong with the picture is I don't think um I mean my opinion is

there's some un unforeseen unintended consequences of straight up free that maybe you're not seeing that I

think are going to go sideways on you. That's what I'm that's why I'm bringing this up. But I really want you to keep that heart of generosity. It's pretty incredible. Brad's in Arkansas. Hi Brad.

How are you? >> I'm all right. How about you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so I have a kind of unique question.

I have about $40,000 in unsecured and

credit card and personal loans. Um, but

my so my my dad passed away and before

my dad passed away, he gave I'm an only

child. He gave his house to his older

brother and his other older brother

wants me to now take over the house, but

I have to uh take the remaining debt and pay him

off because he completely paid it off from the mortgage company whenever my dad died, but he now wants me to take

that over.

>> Sounds like you're broke.

Yeah. Well, >> you taking over a house doesn't sound like a good idea.

>> Okay. Well, like I said, I didn't know if I took the the equity from the house

because the house is just the house itself is probably half a million dollars, but I don't even know.

>> He's going to give you a half a million dollar house.

>> Well, it was my dad's and I No, I'm saying your It's not anymore. It's your brother dad's brother. Your uncle owns the house. Yes. >> Okay. And you're he's going to give you a half a million dollar house.

>> Yes. When >> how much is owed on it? How much is owed on it? >> 90,000.

>> Okay. Well, if you took it and put it on the market the next day and never moved into it, that's okay.

>> Well, that's the condition is I can't I have to take >> You can't afford it. You're broke.

>> He won't give it to me. >> Would he give you this deal in 12 months if you got yourself in a position?

potentially, but he's I mean he's very

well off financially, but I think he's trying to expedite the deal because he removed

the um home insurance on the house

because he said he doesn't really need to add to what he owes on it. So, >> okay, honey, you you're you don't you don't need to take the house over right now. You got $40,000 in debt and no money. It's not a good deal for you today. if you could do the deal later after you get yourself cleaned up, it'll be okay. But, um, he's not really

thinking about you. He's thinking about himself.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. It's Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks. And my daughter, she's my co-host today. Phone number here is88255225.

Michael is in Phoenix. Hi, Michael.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> How are you doing today, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, wonderful. I have a gentleman in my church. um about a year ago he co-signed for a car uh for a friend of his uh

girlfriend and I didn't know about it but two weeks ago he came to me because they um asked him because they were behind on their rent to take out a cash loan on the car um at a cash one uh

place and so he gave them that cash and

uh and they're not paying on it and so his it's coming out of his account and so um just trying to figure out the best

way I've helped him to break off contact with them uh cuz they were using him uh obviously. But uh I just don't know the best way to get him out and away from them with the co-signing of the loan, whether to get it repoed or just let it go dormant. I don't know how to break up that relationship. H >> how did um h how come he's not able to

emotionally handle that?

>> He's special needs. >> Oh, >> so they're taking advantage of him.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Wow. That's horrible.

>> Now, are they um Did you say they are He's in your church. Did you say they are too?

>> No, they are not. I didn't know about this. He's been attending for almost a year. I see. >> Um but uh I didn't know about this till two weeks ago until they started to get try and get cash from him.

>> Yeah. Wow.

>> How does he know them? What's the relationship with him? >> He was he he met the guy like three years ago and everything was fine. I believe he's also a little bit autistic and so they were good friends but a year ago uh the gentleman got married and

when he did that um he the girlfriend

asked uh if he could cosign for a car

because I don't I don't know the whole situation in there but he did and so he co-signed for her car and uh and then

>> for the friend's wife's car not his wife. >> Yes. Okay. Yes. >> All right. So, oh man, these guys are um

>> Well, I Yeah. >> So, there's about >> Who is there anyone else in the guy you're the guy you're trying to help? Is there anyone else in his life?

>> Um there's parents, but I don't know. He doesn't really He hasn't told them. I told him to tell them. Yeah. >> Uh but he doesn't want to tell them to worry them. >> Yeah. No, he's ashamed. Um that's No,

he's not worried about worrying them a bit. Um Yeah. The Yeah. Somehow the

biggest thing that you can do is to stop the bleeding so to speak and that's make sure this con and make him promise you to that he won't do anything else with them without first talking to you.

>> He did. Yeah. >> Yeah. And then and then hold him to that.

I mean you need to circle back on that periodically because he may not >> Well, we're actually because they're trying to come after him. We actually are working on getting a police injunction so that they can't be around him. >> Yeah. A restraint.

>> Very nice guy. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. because if they hang around him, it will happen again cuz he's a nice guy.

>> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. He just doesn't have the uh capacity to say no. Yeah.

That's different. That's different than being nice. >> Um Right. >> The um All right.

And And so he's got a co- signature on this car.

car being paid or do we know?

He I spoke with the with the girlfriend

and she said if I did not allow them to continue communicating with him and him to give him more money, they would quit paying on it. They've already quit paying on the they did not make the first payment on the cash loan uh that they had said that they were going to pay off for him. And so that came out of his account and so he's struggling financially with that. >> He's got to shut his account. He needs to shut his account down so nothing else can come out of it.

>> Okay. Shut his account down. Um, do uh is >> you keep saying girlfriend. Is it his wife? >> It's the girlfriend of the friend. >> Yeah, but the friend got married. I thought he said >> I'm sorry. I'm not 100% sure. I think I think it's his wife, but it might be his girlfriend. I'm not sure.

>> There's a couple of con artists on the other side of this equation. Yeah.

>> Um, so we're putting a restraining order in place and you're going to shut down his account. Um, the only other thing I

think I might do is, uh, if you have an attorney in the church that will help, >> proono, um, I think I would go to both of these companies, the cash company and the car loan company, and say, "This guy is of diminished capacity, and, uh, you had him sign something.

he's not legally bound to it and you need to release him or I'm going to make you the poster child of people who abuse

special needs people and let the attorney let the attorney get him off of these two loans >> and then I don't care if the car gets repoed. The cash is gone. He's not going to be able to do anything about that and he needs to set up his account where they can't get into it anymore. But the attorney needs to get in touch with both of them and say, "Listen, this guy goes to church with us.

He's diminished capacity. He doesn't have have the ability to sign this stuff. He can't be held legally liable. And if you guys don't let him loose, I'm going to make you wish I would let you loose.

That's the attorney's That's the attorney's script. Okay.

>> Is he severely autistic, Michael?

>> No. >> Okay. I'm just wondering how easy it is, but >> emot emotionally, you know.

>> Sure. >> But >> I just wonder how hard it is legally to get >> that. >> It doesn't matter. I'm not doing it. I'm just threatening it. >> Okay.

>> We're not going to go to court. We're not going to go to court and have him declared incompetent over a couple of little baby loans. We're not bothering with that. But we are going to let these guys know that they are morally bankrupt, ethically bankrupt, and we're going to make them wish they hadn't done this if they don't let this guy go.

Yeah. >> So, this is called a threat.

>> Yeah. >> So, worst case scenario, um, >> just ignore it. Just ignore it. And if it screws up his credit, good. He can't do it again. >> Right. Right. So, just don't make any payments on it. Let it repo and then let it all let it all implode.

>> And And by the way, if the repo man ever gets in touch with you, tell them where the car is.

>> Tell them to go get it. >> Right. Exactly. Right.

>> I'll give you the address. >> I sure hope you don't go to 1 2 3 4 Main Street. That's where the car is. I sure hope you don't go over there.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Please don't go to this city address. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I don't think I know where it is, but the last time I saw it is over there. I sure hope you don't find it. Yeah.

Right. Right. >> It was there at 10 o'clock this morning.

Here's a picture. >> How much is it all, Michael? total

with the with both loans with the with

the cosign of the car and the amount of cash that they got. Like what did it all total?

>> Um there's still 16 just under 16,000 on the car. Okay. >> And then $2,000 in cash.

>> The car has a value though, so that's not going to be the deficit after the repo. The bad news is this guy's got his credit dinged up. The good news is he won't be able to do it again because his credit's dinged up, >> right? >> So it's it's he won't be able to cosign.

Yeah, it be it'll work out to his favor.

I hope and hopefully we can start to you

you're you're being um >> you're very kind, Michael, of helping >> to be discipling him and helping him through this number one, but also giving him some tools >> for discernment that are not readily available to him. And if you can help him with that, it'll it'll also help him to build boundaries. Hey, you know, even

uh all of us that are not special needs, we need those tools and sometimes we have to build those tools. So that's not that unusual.

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Did you know that twice that twothirds

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seven out of 10. When you die without a will, you're inviting the court, the lawyers, and the public into the most personal part of your life. And they're going to tell you what to do. Well, they're going to tell your family what to do. You'll be dead. But you need a will. Billionaire industrialist Howard Hughes, known as one of the richest men's in men in the world, died in April of se 1976. His estate with no will

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finally split up the fortune. It destroyed the whole thing because he didn't have a will. You need a will.

>> Even if you don't have billions of dollars, >> even if you don't have 2.5 billion, you need a will. If you just have kids, don't let the com don't let the state tell you where your kids go.

You know, make sure you named a guardian, you have a will, and you set up, you know, all this. So, it's uh we want to challenge you to create your will in August in less than 5 minutes.

You can find out if an online will works or if you need a full-on attorney to do it. Ramseyolutions.com/willquiz.

It's free. Click the link in the show notes and we'll get you set up. This is will month. Use the promo code and uh you can get an online will and get 25% off by doing all this. But go check out the will quiz real quick and you need one by the way if you're breathing and you're over 18. Jeff's in Buffalo, New York. Hi Jeff. How are you?

>> Great. Thanks for having me on the show.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Uh so my daughter's just graduated from

college. We took some loans um to get

them through. Um we've got about 180

left on our mortgage and I have three

retirement accounts plus a brokerage account and the brokerage account has about 200,000 in it. And my wife and I

are talking about should we just cash in the brokerage account, pay off the student loans and take the rest of it and pay it against the mortgage.

>> How much student loan debt? >> We don't have card >> pardon me. How much student loan debt is there? >> It's about 125 >> between how many kids? Just one.

>> Two. >> Two. >> Okay. And these are like parent are these parent plus loans or are you >> Oh, okay. So, you've got student loan debt with 200k in the bank.

>> Yeah. Pay that off by nightfall.

>> For sure. >> All right. >> Yeah. By the by the time you get off the phone, it should be paid.

>> Okay. >> Right now. Yeah. Absolutely.

You and your wife are right. I would do what you suggested instantaneously and then I would make sure. Do you have any other accounts that are nonretirement?

>> Um, no. We have the brokerage account and then we have our savings account.

And >> the savings how much is in the savings account? Oh, the savings account is the 200. >> No, the brokerage is 200. How much is in the savings account? >> Account is the 200. Uh, the savings account it's about five or six thousand.

>> Okay. You need 3 to 6 months of exp. Do you have any loans other than the student loans, not counting your mortgage?

>> No, we have no credit card debt. We have no car loans. So, >> okay. All right. So, Jeeoff, I'm walking through the system that we teach that we've taught for 30 years that works every time. It's called the baby steps.

The first step is to be debtree other than your home. So, 125,000 in student loans, that leaves 75 in the brokerage account. Okay. Now, you're debtree.

That's baby step two. Baby step three is

a fully funded emergency fund which represents 3 to 6 months of household expenses. Uh what's your household income, sir?

>> Uh it's about 180.

>> Cool. What do you think your monthly expenses if you just had to write checks and be and stay open? What would it take to stay open?

>> Uh we're cash positive. I I have a budget and we keep track of that every month. So, >> what's it take a month? 5,000. Yeah. How much does it take to pay mortgage?

>> What's it take to stay open each month?

What's your burn rate? >> Oh, it's about five and a half. It's actually 5600.

>> Okay. So, 3 to 6 months of that would be 20 $25,000.

>> Yep. >> Okay. So, uh with a 180 income, that's

probably pretty cool. So, let's call if we call your emergency fund 25,000. It's only got five in it. You need to put 20 in it. Now, we've used another 20 of your 200. So, uh, we're down to 55.

>> We're down to 55 that you're going to throw at the mortgage. Baby step three is putting 15 or four is putting 15% of your income into retirement. If you're not, start putting that in the budget.

Baby step number four is kids college.

Oh, wait. We just finished that. Baby step six is pay off the house as fast as you can. And that's the 55 going towards the 180. And then whatever I can squeeze out of my budget going forward because you're cash positive, instead of building up a brokerage account, I'm paying off the mortgage as fast as I can.

Okay, that that's now that's how we execute this >> while funding 15% of your income into retirement. So, you are still investing while paying off the house.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, that that's the outline of what we do. I'll send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, because you sound like you're open to actually doing it. That's pretty cool. So, it'll show you how to do it. That's very cool. But the and the purpose of all that, Jeff, is what it does. It sets you up with no mortgage payment, making 180, no payments of any kind, your emergency funds covered, you're systematically investing. There's nothing left to do then but become very wealthy and outrageously generous. And we call all

of that living like no one else. So that later you can live and give like no one else. You've done a really good job. All we're doing is tweaking the flow of some of this cash and and maximizing its potential. That's all we did in the last few minutes. So, very cool. Yeah, student loans are gone. Boom. $25,000 emergency fund. Boom. 55 on the house or

20 20 25 but adding 20 to the emergency fund. 55 on the house. So, uh now the

house is down to 100 and a quarter. And here we go. Game on, baby. Game on. And you'll knock that out. You'll probably knock that out in a year, man. And uh you walk through the backyard without your shoes on. The grass feels different, man. When you got no mortgage, life changes. It's so freaking

weird. Jeremy's in Atlanta. Hi, Jeremy.

How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. >> Good. How can I help? Um, I've I've kind

of acred a a lump sum of money over the years and and savings and I've kind of put it into uh high yield savings, maybe bought a few CDs and stuff like that,

but um I I don't have any retirement,

but everything that I own is paid for.

>> Good. >> And I don't really know what percentage to go. >> So, you're great at avoiding debt.

You're great at saving. You're lousy at investing. >> Yes. Scared, honestly.

>> That's fair. That's fair. Well, you know what's scared? Scared when you don't know how to do something is what is wisdom.

You know, you you get behind a car and you're 12 years old and they start the car and it's 400 m 400 horsepower. You should be scared.

>> Well, I know money in my bank account's good. It kind of scares me. >> Yeah. Relish control. I'm 38.

>> Okay. All right. So, here's the thing.

There's two kinds of fear and yours is a wise fear. uh a an unwise fear is I'm

just have this general paranoia and and we call that false uh evidence appearing real. But your fear is I don't know what this is and it's powerful and so it's scary. That's a good fear. So how do we overcome that? We add knowledge to the equation. So if I woke up in your shoes, how much have you got in all these accounts by the way?

>> Um as of right now about $483,000.

>> Way to go man. >> Well done. >> Way to go. Most people are broke and look at you. That's so good.

>> I'm very very broke. Yeah, trust me.

>> It's going to be so easy for you though.

All you've got to have is some knowledge. So, do you own a home?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. The home did not come with a FDIC

guarantee that it would not go down in value, did it?

>> No. >> But you were very comfortable buying that. You weren't scared investing in

that piece of real estate. And I'm making that point. I knew it was going to be worth more. ah historical data

walking around since you're old enough that you've seen houses go up in value and you could believe they're going to continue to good analysis and that

removed the fear. So, uh I'll give you

an example. I own a mutual fund that started in 1934.

It has averaged almost 12% a year since 1934.

It's only had 22 down years and in the

last 25 years it's only had three down years.

I'm pretty comfortable with that. Like you're pretty comfortable buying a house.

Follow me. >> But you got to add that knowledge to your bucket. So what I would tell you to do is sit down with a Ram Smart with a Ramsey Smart Veester Pro and click on ramsolutions.com. Sit down with them and they have the heart of a teacher. Tell them when you call them, "I'm not ready to invest. I want to learn because I'm scared. And they will be gentle, kind,

and teach. And they will teach you and teach you and teach you until you are ready to purchase, not when they're ready to sell. And then you'll be able to do some long-term investing the same way you bought that house.

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>> Maddie is in Orange County, California.

Hi, Maddie. How are you?

>> Hi. Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

So, my husband and I are in baby step two. Um, we have about $100,000 in debt,

and our question is, do we continue to

pay off our minimum payments on all of our debts while we're trying to hack off our debt, or do we pause on our minimum

payments and use all of that money to knock out one debt at a time?

No, you make minimum payments and pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one with what you can find beyond that. That does two things. One is it keeps them from chasing you and hassling you for being in default. And two is it keeps from destroying your credit.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Just to stay current so you guys don't get behind on them if you just stopped paying them.

>> Yeah. Which we're able to pay all of them right now. We were just thinking, you know, if the thought process is, you know, that we don't need a credit score, then >> Yeah, you don't. But you're going to get yourself into a bunch of late fees and maybe even some legal fees where they come after you.

>> Yeah. >> What's all the debt in? What are the different types of debt?

>> So, we have uh 12,000 in student loans,

70,000 in car debt, which I just convinced my husband to sell the cars.

So >> that's great. >> Um we're there. Um 20,000 in credit card

debt, 10,000 in personal debt, and then 35 in medical debt.

>> Okay, good for you. Well, you're attacking this. And what's your household income?

>> Uh my husband makes 120 a year.

>> Okay. All right. And uh um yeah, you get

rid of the cars, it's going to catapult you way forward in this

>> uh and get, you know, just get some inexpensive cars for the time being and uh which don't fit in in Orange County.

I understand. Whoopdedoopy. But uh we're still going to do it anyway. >> Was it just lifestyle creep, Maddie? All the credit card debt and everything.

>> I'm sorry. >> Was it pretty much lifestyle creep?

Would you say all the credit card debt? or were you guys opening a business or what was causing all that? >> No, it's it's just not wise spending and

we actually had my husband had a lot of uh credit card debt before we got married and so most of it is his.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. >> And you're both on this now and you're both attacking it and this we're talking about this a lot and that's why that's why you start asking questions like this. Good.

Good. That's a good sign. I think you're on track. But uh no, I the answer to your question is I would continue to pay minimum payments because the late fees, the legal fees, the all the other stuff.

And yeah, I'm not worried about your credit. I'm not trying to build credit, but on the other hand, I'm not trying to destroy it either. Um we'll let let it be what it is. And um pay everything on time.

current and then attack the smallest.

But getting I mean, you probably got what 12 $1,400 in in uh car payments,

right?

Yeah, we have 12,000 in car payments and then we have a little over 1,400 in I'm sorry 1,200 in car payments and 1,400 in other minimum payments.

>> So half of your payments are car payments and 70% of your debt is. So you'd only have 30 you'd only have $30,000 left to hit, >> which is so great too, Maddie, because on the other end always the math you think you guys don't have $3,000 a month freed up, right? That's not going to >> Yeah. >> banks and you know your student loan debt and everything. It's going to be with you guys. So, that's always the encouraging other end of the formula.

>> Yeah. Look at that. Look at how fun this is going to be off the back once you do all this crap that you got to go through to clean up the mess. But, you're Yeah, Rachel's got a good point there. Tanya's in Arkansas. Hey, Tanya. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hello. Hi.

>> Hi. How can we help? you. Um, I have a

um a son who graduated high school this year and he's going to an expensive Christian college and he doesn't quite have enough money to cover it. And um I'm wondering if I should be generous

and help him out um until he can get a job and get settled or if I should say, "Sorry, bud. You're on your own." Mhm. >> How much is the How much is this college costing per semester or per year?

>> Um, let's see. He he lacks about I think

it's about $7,000 um per semester. Um, the college itself was like 50,000 and he's gotten enough scholarships and stuff to cover most of it, but there's just a little bit lacking.

>> Okay. The number one thing that causes student loan debt is not the fact that people want to get an education. It's the fact that they select a college they can't afford.

>> Mhm. >> While there's colleges all over the place he could have afforded.

>> Right. And he had said that after this first semester if um before getting a

loan that he would come back to our town. >> How's he going to pay for it? He's short. >> Um, well, I was I was going to help him.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, his plan is if after the first semester I have to get a loan. Well, he's going to have to get a loan. He's guy's short. What's his plan? >> Oh, come back here to Conway to go to a state school, which would be it would be covered. >> No, he's already gone to the other place for a semester and couldn't afford it. How did he pay for that?

>> Oh, I am I was going to help him with this first semester. Oh, so he knows that you've already made that commitment >> and then going forward he's expect he's going to try to what? >> Okay. So 7 So if he's 7,000 short, mom's going to cover it, but he's going to come home.

>> What? >> Well, he has had Well, he Let me see.

He's gotten a um a 529. He had about Let

me think how much he has. He has 4,000 in it. It's not very much. And it doesn't completely cover this the first semester. And so he was just going to go ahead and just use that and then go forward with what he's got. And I said, "Well, I'd like to help you. I'll do this much." >> Tanya, if you don't pay for the school, you don't get to go.

>> And he's short.

>> So unless you give him the money, he's going to take a loan.

>> And what he's about to pay for one semester at this school probably could cover >> through the whole thing in Arkansas.

>> Right. Right.

So, the best gift you can give him, Tanya, honestly, is sitting him down and laying out the facts of the situation and the reality of what she's living in and make a wiser choice. Is he starting

this fall, like coming up?

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's already set to go and and pay for things this fall.

>> Yeah. Cancel it.

>> Okay. >> I mean, seriously, >> stupid. >> It It is stupid because I'll be honest, it it is probably I'm I'm going to just say it. It's probably a school that you've no one's ever really heard of.

It's going to do nothing for him in the job market, right? Like it's there there's nothing that is causing any any

type of >> and I'm not against Christian schools, but the idea that somehow that all the holy people go there and they don't go to the others is hogwash.

>> Some of the people at Christian schools ain't real Christian, honey. We all know that. Okay. >> And that may not have been his motiv.

I mean, it's just it is it's there there's no marketplace value for most of these degrees because the school doesn't carry any level of credibility because majority of people don't even know where you could >> get a to get a degree at another college that no one's really ever heard of either, but it's an instate but it's an instate school and you take instate tuition >> and he gets it paid for because he sounds >> for what he's paying for this semester.

>> Yeah, >> he should he should cancel. >> So that's the gift you could give him, huh, Tanya? honestly to to lay this out for him. >> So, um let me let me h how do I say this

gently? Um

your job as mom is not to go along with

someone's dream, which is actually a nightmare in the making. Your job as mom is to be stronger than that and speak

more directly into this with more wisdom and more force.

>> I would beg you to be stronger with him.

He is not equipped to make this decision. And we can tell because he's made a bad one.

>> And he is not. Just because he's tall and taller than he was and his voice is deep and he has some hair on his back doesn't mean he makes good decisions.

Okay?

>> Just because he looks like a man doesn't mean he's ready to make this decision.

>> So he needs he needs his parent in his

life >> to say don't do this.

>> Tanya, please please be a voice. be a

voiceover. Yes, you will. I I >> Please do it. You can do it. >> Yes, >> you can do it. I hope you do.

>> And that's what's so hard about student loan debt. It's these 18-year-olds that have no idea. He's going to a $50,000 a year school, right? Do you know what I mean? And there's no adult dumb idea. >> This is a stupid idea. Oh man. Tanya,

you can do this. >> This is how student This is how we have $1.7 trillion in student loan. Ladies and gentlemen, you give free money >> and not to Harvard, you know, like a big school. It's probably I mean it's doing nothing to Harvard. >> It's going to do nothing. >> Who would go there now? >> No, I I'm just saying a school that people actually have heard of that's like wow that's impressive. Yel. I don't know. [Music]

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Brett's in Lincoln, Nebraska. Hi Brett.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um, thanks for taking my call.

First off, um my my wife and I have um a

little over $100,000 in credit card debt. >> Wow. >> Um and I and I'm in sales um and have a

quite large commission that's coming in at the end of this month that will basically wipe out all that debt. Praise God. >> Wow. >> Wow. That's lucky. I mean, you worked hard for it, I know, but that's great.

>> Yeah. >> And then you're panicked that you might do it again, >> right? Yeah. And so how do we how do we

Yeah. My wife and I are both on the same page in that. So >> obviously a change in our spending habits and lifestyle, but I'm curious how we should be thinking about >> our behavior and our spending when it comes to not using a credit card and using more cash or a debit card and how we should approach that. >> Light two candles tonight after dinner, get all the credit cards out and have a plastic surgery party.

a placctomy. >> Sounds good. >> Chop every single one of them up and

then close every one of the accounts when you pay them off. That's step one.

>> Yeah. Cut it off at the source. Just be done. Be done with it. Do you guys know the why? Why? What? What caused the

100,000? Is it is it purely lifestyle?

Is it that you guys just didn't have a budget? Like what was the what? because getting to the root of it and understanding the motivation and what caused it in the first place is going to help going forward that if you can identify that.

>> Yeah, I think it's a combination of both, right? Like we had a budget but we didn't really stick to it necessarily and monitor it on a weekly basis and

there were also some life style choices and trying to keep up with the Joneses and >> just wanting nicer things above and beyond our paycheck. Both of you both of you can look at each other and say that to in total both of you are admitting this, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Good. Good. How old are you guys?

>> Um 37 and 39.

>> Perfect. And what's your household income including your normal checks that you get?

>> Um so it's variable depending upon the

commissions every year. >> Sure. But I mean what do you average? What's your normal income?

My annual paycheck is 125,000 myself. Um

my wife works part-time at our church and makes about 23,000.

>> Then how much do you usually get in these bonuses? I know this is an unusually large one.

>> Yeah, I mean it's variable. Um anywhere

collectively between >> I'd say like 300,000 to 600,000

depending upon the year. >> Oh wow. >> All right. So, here's what um

I tried to do for a long time. I was a little younger than you at the time when I figured it out about me was I'm an

abundance person and I'm a really good salesperson. You're obviously a really good salesperson. Um and I'm an abundance person. When I put those two things together, what I fell prey to was

I always just thought, well, if there if we need some money, I'll just go get some more money. And if I, in other words, I thought I could out earn my disorganization and stupidity and overspending. And it found out I couldn't. You can never make enough to beat that. And that's where you are today. You've discovered that. I don't know if you fell prey to that exact emotion or not, but I always thought, I'll just go get some more money. I I can out earn my stupidity. And um and

sometimes someone that's very good at what you like you is like I am, they

fall prey to that. So, um, you can't you

have to build processes and systems into

your life that causes both of you to be accountable. And that starts with a basic budget. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be honest with you, Brad, I'm a little bit shell shocked that I'm like, you guys went $100,000 in debt making half a million dollars a year. Like, >> that's I mean, that's pretty >> that's a lot of spending of overspending. Like, that's a lot of that's a lot of spending. And I like to spend, but I'm like, oh my gosh. So, I

mean, if I Yeah, if I were you guys, um, man, I mean, I would sit down and figure out how can we, I mean, I would drive such deep contentment and discipline so

hard in this first year and and make it >> swing the pendulum the other way. >> Yes. Make it a year goal and live on, god forbid, 200,000, you know what I mean? Like, seriously.

>> Sure. >> Ju just to get to this idea of reality of like, okay, we are we are good, right? like we we make great income and and if we you know choose 250 or whatever and >> you're in Lincoln, Nebraska, not >> Manhattan.

Like you don't need all this stuff. And I know you feel that already, but there's something about actually living it out and making choices and being disciplined to know we have money in the bank, but we're still choosing to live so below our means to really get in this

this process and this pattern and this and actually live it out and then you

guys can start kind of loosening the reins more and more. But um I mean if that's what I would do if I were you guys and I'm a spender, but I would I would Yeah. I would try to live on half the income and just be disciplined in that cuz you guys have been so far the other way. >> Yeah, that's >> I hope y'all took great vacations and stuff. You know what I mean? Like I hope there's like >> there's a tremendous >> good memories. >> Tremendous gun collection.

>> Yeah. Or >> tremendous purse collection. >> Purse collection. I don't know.

>> But uh but good for you guys. I mean you're obviously you're an incredible worker. I mean that's >> that's a phenomenal income which is so great and you guys can use that in such wisdom and discipline and contentment.

>> And here's the thing. You will like yourself better and each other better when you do that. >> Yes. Yes. >> Because you're more likable than some outofc control spending freak.

>> It's going to feel really good. >> Yeah. >> It's going to it's and it's spiritual too discipline and it all like it's overall I think it's going to be really really healthy for you guys. So I'm I'm I'm excited for y'all honestly because it's it's the kind of people like you honestly Brett that >> you can bless your family.

you can do some really amazing things in life because you have the tools to do it and you're going to be able to be extremely generous and the blessings you're going to be able to give to people above and beyond is un is incredible.

think about your kids' kids and the legacy. I mean, you guys are just set up to have a really rich not and numbers

wise, but just fulfillment and money can be a tool to help create that, but it is not the thing that's going to be the fulfilling factor. And you guys know this because it doesn't buy happiness.

You don't you're never going to find a level of satisfaction because you will keep spending and keep spending and spend beyond uh $500,000 a year.

>> Yeah. There's a peace underlying this that she's talking about godliness with contentment is great gain.

scripture says. And so it's that peace that >> and when you're overspending that's kind of frenetic and kind of crazy and kind of wild >> and there's this adrenaline rush and this dopamine hit from hitting the submit button on the cart on Amazon and all that garbage. >> And uh those people they they the the people that do the marketing on that stuff understand that and take advantage of it. And so your your anxiety level in the house is going to drop when you get control of this.

Your relationships are going to improve when you get control of this.

peaceful when you get get control of this. So there's so much more to it than the simple arithmetic or the sickening

sense of I'm out of control and overspending like some kind of freaking addict or something. And so, yeah, you're you're really asking great questions. You're in a great place. And the phenomenal news is you get one shot here to clean it all up at once. Wow.

>> Chop up those cards tonight. Get a debit card. Uh you can go on the envelope system. I still carry cash in my pocket.

And I'm I'm I buy most things with cash, but I'm really old school. I mean, I've got a redneck emergency fund in my wallet, a thousand thousand bucks, right? All the time. just um just because I might need it. And I never do, but just because I might need it. And um

so yeah, it just there's a different feeling when you're using money that you

have and it's a sense of power, a sense of control over it, telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. We're going to sign you up for the Every Dollar Premium and get you involved in that and jump into one of these free webinars that the Ramsey personalities like Rachel are doing, showing you how to set that thing up and get it running. Uh it'll be valuable.

You and your wife sit there and do it together and lay out every dollar before the month begins, where it's going to go, regardless of how big the commission check is. Every dollar needs a name. I don't care where it's going as long as you do it on purpose. Actually, I do care where it's going, but do it on purpose >> and that that'll get you there. And you'll see some real good movement in that. Wow. Big numbers.

>> Yeah, I know. Which I'm glad cuz they

can get out of it, but also um it magnifies, you know, it magnifies the absurdity >> of what of what it is. Yeah. And that's a great example. But Brett, we're cheering you guys on for real.

>> I'm proud of you. Get after it, dude.

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live from From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do

work that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz,

number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the Rachel Cruz Show. My daughter is my co-host today.

Owen is with us in Canada. Hi, Owen. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you guys?

>> Just the same. How can I help?

So, I'm wondering um if I should sell my

home um and rent for a little while and then

like save up some more just to make it a little more affordable on the monthtomonth on my end.

>> Okay. Um what's not affordable?

>> Well, after I started listening to you guys, I realized like my mortgage payment is over 25% of my monthly

take-home. What percentage is it?

>> It's It's probably about like Well, 25%

would be $850 and it's currently $1250.

>> Okay. All right. And how much other debt do you have, huh?

>> None. >> Okay. What's your household income?

>> Uh, I clear 3,400 a month.

>> Mhm. Okay. So, >> and then my my >> I don't I don't know Canadian tax rates off the top of my head. I'm guessing you make what? Uh 60,000 bucks a year.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. And um >> you bring home 3,400 though, >> right? >> Yeah, that's right.

>> Um >> that's like that's like every Yeah, clear. >> Yeah. And you don't have any other debt and your house. So, um,

the last the reason I'm hedging around and fumbling is the last thing I sell is the house. And I will sell the house if you can't afford it. I would tell you to do that cuz it's not a blessing to you.

Um, yours is a little high, but it's borderline. And do you hate the house?

>> I don't hate the house. I just when I heard you guys say that a house should be a blessing. Yes. You know, not more an an inconvenience. It feels like an inconvenience from time to time.

>> Okay. Feels like it feels like it owns you. Sometimes you don't own it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Uh what's the trajectory on your income?

Is it going up fast?

>> It goes up a little bit year by year.

>> Slow. Okay. >> Yeah. Slow. Yeah. >> Is it just you, Owen, or are you married? Kids?

>> Just me? >> Just you? Okay.

I I I'm okay if you want to hang out there and hang on to this thing and fight on through it. It's not enough that it's um

that that it's completely holding you back. It's not enough that you're drowning in it. It it's it's it is enough that it's uncomfortable and it is more than I would sign you up for if we were talking from scratch. But selling a home, moving, all of that is a very emotionally and financially expensive thing to do.

And so it's the last thing I tell people to do before I tell them to sell their car real quick. I tell them to sell, you know, other stuff so fast. I tell them take an extra job so fast. That kind of thing.

>> Yeah. Because it's a couple hundred bucks, you know what I mean? 600 700 bucks a month that ideally, you know, you would have for margin in your budget. But um yeah, I'm with you.

>> Rachel's in Sacramento. Hi, Rachel.

>> Hello. >> How can we help?

>> You know what? I made a big mistake.

Bought my daughter a car. Yes, I've made many, but this is huge. Last September

and it was contingent upon her getting herself together, her FICO high, all that good stuff, and then putting it in her name. It's almost a year she hasn't done that. She's getting fasttrack tickets. That's like a toll bridge thing. and her insurance is not covered by anyone other than mom. And I'm becoming inundated with this and I feel like I'm ready to do something drastic just to pay off the car and just give it to her. >> Um, how much is the car?

>> 27,000 approximately.

>> And is it in your name, Rachel?

>> Yes, ma'am. It is. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And and the loans in your name?

Everything? >> Yes, ma'am. Dummy me. Yes.

So, let me ask you, wait a minute. The the agreement was >> that she was to uh arrange to get the car paid off and put it into her name and she's done been unable to do that because of her irresponsibility. Is that what you told me? >> Absolutely.

Pretty much. >> And how long ago? And that was a year ago. >> Yes.

>> And things have gotten a little bit haywire now because these tickets have come. >> Registration is going to be more than expected. And and >> you know, I I would just call her and have her I She lives in your area, I assume. >> Yes.

>> Yeah. I think you need to sit down with her for a cup of coffee and say, "Honey, you know what?

I I thought I was doing something nice for you and this is a curse to you. It has really messed up your life and I'm so sorry. Hey, we're going to fix it.

We're going to sell that car." >> Well, she has three children, my grand so she has to have transportation. I don't care. >> I know. >> She does not need a $27,000 car and she's irresponsible and she didn't follow through on what she said.

>> Are you a multi-millionaire?

>> Absolutely not. I'm going to start working for you guys and become one, though. How about that? That's another story. >> Okay. >> But you don't have the money. You don't have the money to throw around 20. You don't have $27,000, do you?

>> No. But you know what? This is the crux of the question. I am 61. I'm going to get my social security early next year.

Even though that may not be the smartest thing to do, but I have a home. So, I was either going to get um a heliloc or

take the lump sum from my employer. Just be done. >> Sweet girl, you made a mistake. Undo the mistake. Don't keep doing it.

>> I know. >> What you did was not a blessing to your daughter.

>> To the grandchildren. >> You didn't help your daughter.

>> You hurt your daughter.

>> You put her in a situation where she can't afford a car.

Well, actually, when I went to the >> Honey, she can't afford the car.

>> No, she can't. >> She can't afford the tickets and the registration. She's not taking care. You can't afford the car. Nobody can afford the car. The car needs to go away.

>> It's not a blessing. >> She going to transport the children.

>> Honey, we might get a $5,000 car.

>> Yeah, she's a single parent.

>> Honey, she can get a $5,000 car. Single parents do it all the time.

>> So, maybe. But you're not blessing her.

You're not blessing those kids. You're putting those kids' mom in a trap >> and she can't swim. She's drowning because of you.

>> Well, she does it monthly.

>> Stop it. Quit rationalizing it. It was a

dumb butt idea. Quit doing it. Stop it.

>> Okay. >> Love your daughter better.

>> Okay. >> Sit down with her. Say, "I made a mistake, honey. for selling this car and we're going to figure out a way to get you a little $5,000 car to cart those little kids around and get yourself up on your feet, kiddo. Cuz guess what?

That's what you did, >> right? >> You did the same thing. And nobody gave you a car you couldn't afford drowned you in it. >> You're like somebody swimming and you hand them an anchor.

>> How do I sell a car that's being financed? >> You sell Okay, now we're getting somewhere. >> Yeah. Go on Kelly Blue Book, Rachel.

Okay. And put in all the information and see how much the car is worth. You owe 27. There's a good chance you're going to be underwater on this car. So, the value of the car, let's pretend it's at $24,000 that you can sell it for 24,000.

That means you have you're going to ow you have $3,000 that you have to find.

So, what you could do is go down, get a

$8,000 loan from a credit union, give your daughter the $5,000 if you want to get her the $5,000 car, $3,000 for the difference, and be done with it. And >> you you pay off the $8,000 for your mistake, >> and then you pay off the $8,000 of that loan. >> But here's the thing. When you're trying to bless somebody and you do it wrong, you don't bless them, you curse them.

And that's what you did. You didn't mean to, honey, but it's what you did. So, you need to undo it.

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[Music] Thanks for joining us, America. Buying or selling real estate is a big deal in the middle of all the drama that we've got going on right now. And when you're facing drama, Dr. John Deloney has a good saying. He says, "Facts are your friends.

Facts can help you pierce through all the hyperbole and the overstatement and the crazy stuff you see on Tic Tac and on Instagram. Facts are good for you. If

you want to know what the latest facts are about the US housing market trends, we can help you do that. Go to ramseyolutions.com/market.

You'll be able to find there what the median house prices actually are and what they're trending up or down regardless of what someone told you that their neighbor sold their house for.

Yeah, that's not good information. How many houses are actually on the market?

What are the real interest rates today?

Yeah, we keep the website up to date and ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes.

Malik is with us in Boston. Hi Malik,

how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thanks for uh taking my call today. Um so I make uh kind of a

variable amount of money each month and

trying to budget right now to kind of more aggressively pay off my student loans and good >> just wanted some advice on that.

What is the the fluctuation usually

like? What's a high high month low month? >> Yeah. So last year I made um about 65,000 and that was anywhere between

like 2500 a month to like upwards of

9,000. >> Okay. >> Pretty good fluctuation. What do you do for a living? >> Yeah. Um I'm an acupuncturist. Um so I a

lot of my income I mean essentially my entire income is based on the number of people I see um in a given week or month

and then I also do some side jobs as well um >> okay >> to supplement that. >> Okay. So what I would do um because I

I'm on a my income is up and down too

throughout the year depending on work and everything too. Highly commission based. So what Winston and I do in our budget, we have it prioritized of what

has to be paid and then what we just like and enjoy. And so for you, you got

to figure out, you know, food, shelter, utilities, transportation, your four walls have to be covered every single month, right? We're not going to get behind on those things. Um, >> and what does it take to do that? If it takes 21,00 to do that, the first 2100 is gone before we even start talking.

>> Yep. And then everything else after that, prioritize different categories.

So insurance would be one thing, you know, to make sure that that that's paid. Uh but just go down the list and if you download our every dollar app, they give you a set number of categories. It's like up to 20 of thing of different things that you probably spend money on throughout the month that you may even not realize. And so I so we just prioritize that. And then when the money comes in and we realize, okay, we

have enough, you know, obviously to pay the essentials and then anything extra then starts dropping into these other categories. And then what I would do too for you, um, as you're starting all of this is to have a we call it the peaks and valleys fund. So have a separate kind of savings account or savings line within your savings to put some extra money aside so when you do have a low month you can pull from that to create somewhat of a consistent lifestyle if that makes sense >> to even it out a little bit. >> Yep.

And then anything above and beyond that because you do have debt your expenses should be at a minimum. So you're going to be throwing anything extra you have at this debt to get it paid off.

a small month equals we lived and maybe

paid some on the debt, >> right? Okay. Yeah. That that essentially it was kind of like, okay, I figured out how much my basic right >> life >> requires and then >> um however much on top of that I need to be able to like keep some in order like

in case I have a low month.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> Just figuring out how much of that to put toward >> not not as much as your emotions feel like. It won't take much with what you're describing. If you had a th00and $2,000 sitting over there, you'd even everything out.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> It's not a lot of money. >> So, um yeah, that all of that does that.

So, if you've ever done like a time management thing where you said, "Okay, I have a to-do list and I'm going to force rank it to from the most important thing to the least important thing and then I'm going to do the to-do list in the order of most important to least important." If you've ever done that on like a yellow pad, this is the same concept, only you're just doing it with money. >> Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Um,

okay. >> That's exactly how you get at it, man. Congratulations. Hey, thanks for calling in. We appreciate you being with us.

Naomi is in New York. Hi, Naomi. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank God we're doing well.

>> Good. Um, we've been away for the summer

and we took a job in a camp, my husband and I, and we had our basics taken care

of, which was really nice. And we managed to save up a good chunk based on our job. We have 20,000 practically cash at this point. Um, and wondering where

we need to be putting it towards.

>> Do you guys have debt?

>> We do. >> Okay. How much debt do you guys have?

>> About 50,000. It's two cars and a and a

small personal loan that has no interest on it. >> Okay. How much is each car do you owe on each car?

>> Um we have 15 and 27.

>> 15 27. Okay. And the loan is

>> 15 and 27. >> That's like four. Yeah.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um about 8K a month.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, for sure the 20 or the 50 is going to be thrown to pay off or the 20 that you guys have saved. Um, >> go to your smallest debt. >> Yep. So, I I'd throw it at the loan and then the $15,000 car >> and those will be paid off and then you guys just work to pay off the $27,000 car loan.

So theoretically it makes sense to us, but we have we we have it right now sitting like in a a high savings um that we

could easily access and wondering if we should leave any there for things that come up like kids. I mean, we have three little ones. >> We should be doing a budget that includes line items for things that come up with kids.

>> So I'd leave $1,000 in there and then

throw everything else at the debt. Yeah, but don't let kids surprises be called an emergency. Kids equal surprises. And

so you need to have a budget line items that include um suddenly they lost their tennis shoe.

Suddenly they forgot to pay tell me about the field trip.

>> And it's always suddenly when they're seven. >> Um and so yeah, you just you you you anticipate that as a wise parent and you have some of that budgeted in your monthly budget. We don't have an emergency fund and call an un uh

announced field trip an emergency. It's not. It was just a bad communication from a seven-year-old. Lost the paper on the way home thing. Yeah.

So, yeah, that that's what we're going to do there. But you It sounds a lot like Naomi that you guys don't have many

hardcore processes or systems and

systematizing this stuff with a good budget. It sounds very nerdy, but it's also very powerful. It will give you a sense of power over this money. And when you're running loose and hanging by the thread, uh you feel very very vulnerable

all the time when you're making every dollar behave using the every dollar budget. Um you are you don't feel that way anymore. You feel power again. Even if you're even if you're trying to struggle through something, you're at least powerful because we know we got the lights paid.

We know the kids got food. We know the we're not going to get evicted. Um because we've got certain things we know.

And you when you put them all down on paper and you go, "Oh, I got that." Then that's released. And so your your stress level your goes way down as the chaos of

disorganization goes down. And um that's

just not that's not just nerd speak.

It's actually the real thing. It's really what happens. >> Yeah. So instead of just randomly saving money and just not really knowing, you know, what to do with it, everything has a plan. >> Yeah. >> Everything has a purpose. >> Everything has an execution on it. Has it has a name associated with it. So when you get money from your paycheck, it's kind of boring because you'd already spent it on paper. You just have to dole it out according to the plan.

There's no emotion left to it. Um

there's no sense of oh god, this is a problem if you you already had that back when you did the budget. So, you got it all out of the way now. So, you do the budget before the money comes in every

single month. Now, let's get that $27,000 car paid off. That thing's a boss. You may even want to get rid of it.

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Annie's in Los Angeles. Hi, Annie. How are you?

>> How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, I appreciate you taking uh my call.

So, here's my question. Uh, I am currently actively on baby step 2, quickly approaching and eagerly approaching baby step three. However, I

have a daughter who is 8 years old. When she gets, you know, uh, money for Christmas, for birthdays, different events, and things like that, we have placed all of that money into her little savers account. Good. Uh now typically what I would do is I would put it into like a six or nine month CD and then um

potentially roll it over CD to CD.

>> Yeah. That or a high that or a high yield. I mean how much is in it?

>> So she has accumulated just over $10,000. >> Good. Good for her. Okay.

>> Yeah. So what I what my is that Right.

>> She's doing better than most adults out there. >> Exactly. So, I just wanted to make sure that I'm doing the best for her money.

And I've heard a lot of things and I don't necessarily want to take advice from people who are not well uh versed

on like college funds and things like that. >> If you were in my shoes, what would you do with that? Would you keep it in the high yield or uh you know, CDs, high yield savings accounts, or would you look at alternative investment opportunities for her? It depends on what you plan to use the money for and that will that will answer your question. So I can tell you what we did.

All right. We had a savings account in

mutual funds for the kids college that we were putting money into. That was their kids college fund and we were funding that. The miscellaneous savings account like you're talking about. We earmark that for the kids to spend and

to learn to spend wisely. And we told

the kids when they were 8 and six and whatever that they need to put money in that account because that was their buy a car account and I'm not buying you a car. You have to buy your own car. I did however agree to match it. We had 401

Dave. You got a lot of money in this account. You may not want to match this one. But um you know Rachel saved up I

think uh $5,000 or 6 $8,000. 8,000. and

I matched it and she got a little $16,000 Beamer, a little used Beamer >> and it was a cute little car and it took her all the way through college if I remember. >> And uh but she paid for half of it with her miscellaneous account. So she threw babysitting money in there, dog sitting money in there, whatever book sales she made at the back table selling Ramsey books at an event when she's 14 years old, all of that went in there and anything she put in there was going to be doubled for her car. So, it was kind of her car fund and that's the way we brainwashed the kids that that's what it's for.

If you're going to do that, a high yield savings is fine.

>> 529. Okay.

>> Yeah. It just depends on what you know what do you want the money to be for.

And here's the thing, the money really doesn't matter.

It's a lot for an 8-year-old, but what matters is the lesson that the kid gets out of this.

>> What are they, what muscle are they building in the financial world? Are they learning to save? Are they learning to work and save to hit a goal like buying a car? Are they learning to work and save to hit a goal like going to college and I'm going to pay part of it so I actually freaking go to class because I paid for it instead of championing in beer pong, right?

It changes the equation when you got skin in the game in these things. And the lesson is what's important, not the dollar amounts.

>> They're not enough to matter.

>> Right. If she learns the smart stuff, she becomes a millionaire off the smart stuff, not the $10,000.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And the the savings part and contributing towards it is uh an

activity that she enjoys.

>> Yeah. There you go. >> And you know, >> it's great. right now her focus and if I was to tell her, hey, this is going to be for your first car, it, you know, that wouldn't really have much impact to her at her state of where she is at 8.

>> But no, we told them real clearly, listen, it's very important. And we would show them cars at 8 years old and go, "This is what this car costs cuz if you don't start saving, you're going to have a nice bike." >> Yeah. But I hear what you're also saying, Annie, that I mean, is there anything in the near future that maybe she wants to save up and pay for, right?

I mean, >> um, and and and I do think that that's what I mean, I have an eight-year-old and that is one thing that we do is, hey, what is something you want?

Caroline literally right now is saving for a mini trampoline cuz we're not buying a trampoline. So, she's going to buy a little mini exercise trampoline.

It's $40 on Amazon and she's working to save for that. So, because So, she's in it. So, she's feeding June. She's taking our dog out. I mean, like she's got her little chores and it's motivated her and so that so I hear what you're saying, Annie, that yes, a car can feel it feels so far for an 8-year-old. But that conversation, >> that is so awesome. >> That conversation >> information I learned on the radio >> is uh Yeah. But

>> the car conversation really really amps up um >> in about in about 20 more minutes when they're ready. >> Well, it's going to be quick. Yeah. But I mean 11 12 13 14 15 I mean they're Yeah, they're they're they're heading that way for sure. And for those of you out there listening, do put a limit on this. I wasn't smart enough to do that.

Rachel saved 8,000.

>> Her little brother had a head start on this cuz he watched his he had watched his two sisters do it. And he's a savings maniac. And um he about broke me

so with the doubling thing. So you do need to put a limit on it. And I had to have a conversation. We're not buying a new Ferrari.

Okay. So um you know, >> he didn't have that. >> I know. But I'm saying I had to have a conversation.

We're not spending that on a car. un 16 years old >> to a degree cuz y'all al you started this plan all of a sudden at the same time. So Denise got the short end of the stick. So she >> Yeah.

She started when she was seven. It was rough for her.

And then I had two years on her and then Daniel had four years. So he had six years more of savings than Denise did.

>> The three of you were so abused.

>> So just saying, "Hey, hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the first bestselling book Rachel Cruz ever did with her dad. It's called Smart Money, Smart Kids." and it's about teaching parents how to teach kids. And so we'll

send you a copy of that as our gift. We appreciate you calling in. Christopher's in Palm Springs. >> You going to do that right now? >> Right now. Do what? >> Okay. Yeah. >> Got about 10 seconds. >> No, we got about four minutes.

Christopher's in Palm Springs. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

>> Oh, we do have Rachel. I am uh very excited to speak with you today. I'm a teacher here in California and just wanted to get your thoughts on how much we should be spending maybe monthly or yearly on our classroom.

Um, I have an unpopular

stance on that and you have you're a great guy and you're a wonderful teacher and so you're not going to go with my

stance. I wouldn't spend a dime on it.

It's not your job. It's my stance. It's the school's job to furnish you the stuff to boo your classroom and the parents ought to get together and furnish whatever you >> Do you have an Amazon wish list Christopher that goes out to the parents?

>> You know I I do not Are you in an underserved community?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> So it won't matter. The parents aren't going to be able or probably willing to help. So, I mean, you've got to be real careful with this because you you're doing this out of your love for the kids and your love of teaching, but you can break yourself with that budget, can't you?

>> Definitely. I've found myself spending thousands a year on it.

>> And really, that's the school board's job is to furnish you the stuff to teach the kids >> and and you know, and or what parents can come around and assist you on it. um

and or contact a local church in the area and let them know you're in an underserved area and see if some see if one of the Sunday school classes or one of the small groups will adopt your classroom or something. Um >> okay, >> we the Ramsey Family Foundation adopted the school, the elementary school for four years that I went to when I was a kid and now it's in an underserved area.

And so we adopted it and even our team goes over there and works and helps and then we put money into the classrooms and all that. It was really fun cuz it's nostalgic for me because it's where I went to where I went to the first grade and all that. So it's kind of cool. But you you know maybe you can find somebody like that to help at some degree.

Maybe not the whole school but somebody help your classroom. And it's just I think it's blatantly unfair for a teacher to have to pay for this. >> Wow. >> I just think it is.

and you guys have got such wonderful hearts and you're so giving to those kids and thank you for that. But be real careful with that. I I don't >> It's a slippery slope.

Yeah. >> You don't you do not have a moral obligation at all to do that.

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Our [Music] scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 2:9.

It is written, "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived, the things God has prepared for those who love him." Warren Buffett said, "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." Adam's in Charleston, South Carolina.

Hi, Adam. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey. Hey Dave, how you doing? Thank you.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so first off, appreciate you taking the call. It means a lot. Um, so I'm calling today because I'm in a very tight financial spot currently. Um,

trying to navigate it the best I can.

Uh, basically where I'm at is I don't

think I have an income problem. Um, I do

okay. I'm active duty Navy.

>> So it is a fixed um you know what do you

make but >> uh 72. >> Okay. Your wife work >> just about. Um >> uh no. >> Okay. How many kids you got? >> No. Um two kids. >> Okay. >> Two little girls. >> All right. 7 72,000. Two little girls in Charleston, South Carolina. Gotcha.

>> Yes, sir. Um yeah. a part, you know, a

part of that is going through a divorce.

Um, but I I'm trying to

basically budget for myself and budget for them. Um, and set them up for success. So, like I said, it's kind of

tight right now, but I'm trying to make it work. Um, a lot of that, I would say about 4,000 of that is going

uh out the door immediately to her. Um,

so with what I'm left over, I work with and it it pays the bills. It does what it needs to do. But >> for like child support, >> he's trying to support both households,

>> correct? >> That's not sustainable, bro.

>> Yeah. I mean, because you're probably only bringing home 5,500 a month, right?

>> You're not going to be able to do that long term. >> Yeah. Yeah. This isn't >> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> mathematically doable. Um, >> yeah. It's a sweet It's a sweet sentiment, but it's not going to work,

>> right? >> Okay. So, your your exwife

is going to be working.

>> Uh, that's the hope.

>> No, no, it's not an option. She's not going to be able to eat if she doesn't,

>> right? >> You don't make enough to support two households indefinitely.

nor is that wise.

That's what divorce brings to your ex-wife's life, a new job,

>> regardless of who asked for it or who caused it, >> right? >> So, you'll be paying child support, which is a percentage of your income according to South Carolina law, and you will do that because you're a good dad.

And in addition to child support, you'll do some things here and there because you're a good dad and you love your daughters, but you cannot support two households, sir. That's not sustainable.

>> Is that the expectation, Adam? What What have you guys talked about?

>> Well, yeah. I'd say unfortunately, but

not really. Like, obviously child support will never be an issue. No problem doing that. Um but being in uh when you're active duty there is a instruction in place to protect service member and you know any immediate you know spouse um there is a set limit in

place that you have to abide by which

again no problem but it is a percentage

of what I make. So regardless of if she

works or not that's what has to >> that's fine but it's not it's not 60% of what you make. It's akin It's akin to

child support.

>> Um, yeah, it's >> we work with military for 30 years. The military does not take 60% of a dad's pay for his kids when there's a divorce.

That's not true.

>> You've gotten some bad information.

>> Okay.

Um, yeah. How do I go about this? I guess if I if I'm being told like by the

the military as a whole, this is what I

mean. I guess how do I navigate that?

You're being told by the military that they're going to take 4,000 of your 5,000 and give it to your kids.

>> Yeah, that's uh that's what I've been doing for the last uh 8 months.

>> I understand you've been doing it, but you're saying someone at the military told you that.

>> Correct. >> Okay. You need to go see your senior officer and have some discussions. cuz you got to learn how >> is there lawyers in place, Adam? Like is that what where are you guys at in the divorce?

>> Uh it's so there's no um official, you

know, paperwork or anything yet. It's just uh it's a separation period and we're getting to that point here in the next uh couple weeks. >> Okay? Because a lawyer would know all the divorce law and everything too.

So they'll be >> you can sit down with Jag and they can walk you through it, too. But I'm going to my senior officer and find out you need to learn about what's going on here because I've been working in the military for 35 years. I've never heard this in my life. Now, they do require that you take care of your kids.

I don't have any problem with that, but the child support numbers I've seen are more akin to what the state levies and what the state requires in most cases.

and you know, and you've got to do other things to make sure that you know, for instance, if you've got a security clearance based on your credit, you got to keep your bills paid and those kinds of things. cuz that kind of stuff will come up in this situation. But you may want to sit down at the JAG office. You for sure want to sit down with your senior officer and I think you need to learn something about this cuz this I'm I might be wrong.

I sometimes I I gave out some wrong information last week on this show, but I don't think I'm wrong here.

this. I've never seen it and I've worked with military stuff for 30 years. So and we love the military and we work Thank you for your service, by the way. And but no. All right, Jennifer's in New Jersey. Hey, Jennifer, what's up?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, I was wondering um about the baby

steps. Um, we're trying to pay off some small debts. You know, 10,000 a year, 20. I think they add up to like 50 or 60,000 in various small car loans and personal loans. Um, but my husband and I have a disagreement. I think we should just pay off our work on paying off our mortgage for the next few months because I think that we can and that would open up amount of money to pay off it's like

69,000 and the the monthly payment is 3,700. So

I feel like if we paid that off we would have it would open up all this money to be able to pay off all these other little debts. So 109,000 you're 100%

debtfree house and everything.

>> 109,000.

Oh yes. Yes.

>> How much you guys make a year?

>> Um so my husband makes 190 and I make

150. >> Oh nice. >> So you should pay off all of this in a year.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. You should pay off if you're if you're making 250,000 $300,000.

>> Yeah. you should pay off 109,000 in one year.

>> In which case, this argument doesn't matter.

>> I I suppose that it's it's >> it doesn't matter because you're not going to be doing it long enough that the math matters in your argument.

>> Do it in one year. $8,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> Why can you not do that? You make $300 and something thousand.

>> I don't know. Oh, I just I think I need to do the every I need to do the every dollar app because >> Yeah, >> I I think it's pretty common like you just don't know where all your money goes. >> I mean, if you But if I if I look at it and I go, okay, you make 300 I don't know what was it 15,000 320 320. Okay.

And we take 109 from that, that only leaves you 200,000 to live on.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How in the world? And you're in New Jersey, so you got a lot of taxes, but then that's still going to be >> Yeah. >> You know, 120. >> You ain't going on vacation that year, >> right? >> And you're not going to eat out every night, >> right? >> And there's not going to be $1,000 bottles of wine on the equation.

>> But yeah, you're actually going to get out of debt. So yeah, you do need to get on the every dollar budget because 300 and something thousand minus 109 equals 200 and something thousand to live on.

Go do it. Right. Seriously, bust it.

Bust it, girl. And if you The point, too, being if you're going to do this in one year, you could do the mortgage first. I don't care because you're going to do the whole stinking thing in one year, okay? And then the 3500 a month

being freed up, it only matters for about 3 months. So, it doesn't matter because it it changes the whole equation. If you're going to drag this sucker out for four years, then we could talk about your equation because it does kind of start to make sense then. Not sure I would do it, but it starts to make sense.

It's a fun argument at that point, but for one year, nah, knock it out. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

[Music]

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## 249. You Can't Out Earn Bad Financial Behaviors | June 4, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Wentz Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Jade Wshaw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. We're glad you're here. Open phones at8255225.

TJ starts us off in Kansas City. Hi TJ.

What's up?

>> Hey guys. Glad to have uh glad you have me on today. I'm doing good.

>> Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

>> So, um just in kind of a position where

my family's living paycheck to paycheck

kind of thing and we've tried all kinds

of stuff. We've gone through uh financial advisors and coaches at our banks and all that and we're just hitting a wall where we just feel stuck and know that some patterns or behaviors somewhere have to change.

>> So when you looked at that with the various coaches um did you find that

there was a spending problem or did you find that there was an income problem?

Um what I what I heard most was it looks

like you need to generate more income.

Um that's what I heard. Um but we never could you know >> what is your income?

>> So I I gross around 69,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what do you take home monthly?

>> Monthly I net around 5,026

I think. Something like that. >> Okay. What about your wife?

>> My wife doesn't have an income. She's um

she homeschools our kids and takes her motherly responsibilities pretty seriously. >> Okay. How old are the kids?

>> Nine, 11, and five.

>> Okay. Uh I agree. You probably are

facing uh an income issue. You're below

the national average there. And so you are going to feel that. Um, I'm assuming there's debt involved as well, >> correct? Um, yeah, you know, those that's definitely the the biggest hurdle is if we could get out from underneath like one thing, it'd probably give us some wiggle room for other things.

>> Absolutely. You'd feel that snowball effect. So, tell us about the debt that you have.

>> Um, we we do, you know, I say own loosely, but we do own our house um through mortgage. >> Okay. We we have a couple of different credit cards, a vehicle loan and student

loans >> for >> Tell us the credit cards. Tell us the car and tell us the student loans.

>> Okay, gotcha. So, the student loans um

are only mine and they total about 62,000.

The mortgage, the remaining balance is

200,500.

>> Okay.

The vehicle loan is about 19,000.

>> Okay. >> And both credit cards are around about 8.5,000 each.

>> Okay. So 16,000.

>> You guys are normal.

>> But normal s but normal sucks.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. I mean you got like the the kind

same kind of debt most people have. Car debt, credit card debt, a student loan that's been around so long. I think it's a pet. How long y'all been married?

>> Um 12 years this August.

>> So the student loans 14 years old.

>> I graduated in 2012 with those and so

>> I'll be 14 years old. >> Are you using that degree TJ?

>> Not directly. I want to have one.

So, I actually work for um an antique

store uh that specializes in antique books and firearms. Um very high

collectibles.

>> What do you do? Just your retail there.

>> Uh kind of sort of. I I'm the shipping coordinator. I also do um a lot of the research for the individual items and things like that. >> What's your degree?

I graduated from a Bible college with a youth and family degree, a youth and family ministry degree.

>> Okay. >> So, the part about you using your degree is you're not, which is okay, but you're not at all on >> I'm using it in that it's a placeholder on a on a resume.

>> Yeah. The reason I asked is because I I do agree with what everyone else has said, which is you do need to get your income up because uh when you get your income up, you're going to have more margin available to you and then you'll be able to use that margin, which is extra money after everything is minimum payments and everything else is satisfied. That extra margin is what you use to pay off your debt using the debt snowball. And you were absolutely right.

If you listed these out from smallest to largest, so in this case, one of the $8,000 credit cards would be first. If you freed up one of those credit card bills, that's a little bit more margin that now you're adding to your life, a little bit more room to breathe that allows you to pay off then the next $8,000 credit card. Do you see how this works? So, I I I agree with you. So, the question is, how can we add more income?

Um, I'm I there's you who can go out and

get some temporary side hustles, right?

I think that you've got something tells me you've got some extra hours in the day that you could do that. Not ideal, but you've got the time. And then I'm also looking over at your wife who's got some margin for time. Uh she's homeschooling and I do want to call this out. That's a personal choice. That's a values choice. But as she's homeschooling, it's also meaning that she's not adding uh a paycheck to the

mix. And that's a choice that you guys are making. So everything if if I'm looking at your situation, suddenly everything is on the table. >> Yeah. And we can say >> here's the thing. Nothing changes until something changes. So Jade's exactly right. And what the people that you've been with before have not told you and we're going to be brave enough because we love you to tell you the truth is you're going to have to get radical to break this cycle. Beans and rice, rice

and beans. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job. You're not going on vacation cuz you're broke people and broke people aren't going on vacation. You're going to get this stinking car paid off or you're going to sell it. She's going to pick up a side hustle. You're going to pick up a side hustle. You guys are going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next.

We are going on a mission to clean these debts up. And tonight, you're going to get both credit cards out and look at them together with a candle lit and have a ceremony, a plastic surgery party, and chop those stupid butt things up. And we're going to get on an every dollar budget, and we're going to get so fired up and wired up because I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. When you get that going, you'll get out of debt.

But you will not get out of debt doing what you're doing because what you're doing is running like a rat in a wheel getting no traction.

>> I do I have two very specific nuance questions that I think could at least like um me a bit better of of pathing.

>> Yeah, ask them. >> Um one the first one regarding the credit cards. I did recently do a balance transfer from one card to another. Regardless of how we feel about balance transfers, that specific card

has a 0% interest rate until October of 2026. Am I better off paying towards the

0% interest rate?

>> It's your smallest debt anyway. It's your smallest debt anyway. So, it honestly doesn't matter. Um, >> I don't care. I don't care. I don't care about interest rates are not your problem. Cash flow is your problem.

>> Okay? You need rid of the debt so you don't have payments.

>> The number one thing >> and when you don't have payments, you're going to have margin. That's what Jade's been saying. >> The number one thing on your checklist, TJ, is tonight you sit down with your wife. You need to make sure you both have this equal level of intensity on what it's going to take to get out of this.

And the two of you are going to brainstorm what are you going to do with your extra time to make money and what am I going to do with my extra time to make money. And you don't stop the conversation until two of you the two of you have lists of jobs that you'll be applying for in the morning. >> Yeah.

Where you make 169, not 69.

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Carl is in New York City. Hi, Carl.

What's up?

>> Well, I pushed the button. We could talk to you, Carl. I'm sorry. Let's try again. What's up, Carl?

>> I'm making about $200,000 a year and I'm

having a real hard time budgeting. Uh, I was in trouble with uh, credit card debt, which um, I have since put a band-aid on it, but I'm looking for a tool to be able to move forward so I don't fall back into that credit card debt. >> Okay. When you say you're struggling to budget $200,000, what do you mean exactly? Tell us exactly what you mean by that.

>> You know, I just feel my my day-to-day um, puts me a bit upside down and then I wind up leaning on credit cards. uh just not uh disciplined enough so to speak and I feel that a budget and putting putting certain monies aside specifically for the mortgage and and you know groceries and and day-to-day things would would help me save more >> and be able to become a little bit more independent or and not you know so upside down. Um, I mentioned I had uh

$27,000 in credit card debt.

>> Mhm. >> And I went ahead and took a second mortgage uh because it was a lot better than 30%. Right. Um, so I have an 8%

loan now on my second mortgage. Still have decent equity in my home.

>> And but you're still doing the same now.

>> Yeah. >> And it's going to it's going to get worse every time you do this. Yeah.

>> You treated the symptom, not the problem. The symptom is credit card debt. problem is you spend more than you make.

>> Exactly. >> So why do you spend more than you make?

What's it going to?

>> Well, historically it went to um just

necessities as I call I mean maybe living outside of our budget. Um spending too much on dinners, uh going out drinking, uh buying stuff for the house, cars, motorcycles. I mean that that list can go on and on. But I feel like I have a better handle on that now.

I'm not doing that anymore >> because you're using a budget.

>> Well, yeah. Yeah, I had a budget, but it

kind of fell apart. I don't have a budget currently, but I want to put one in place. >> So, how much debt do you guys have, Carl? Not counting your house.

>> I am happy to say nothing. What about the well the 27,000 that you rolled into the second mortgage and there's nothing beyond that? >> No car debt. >> That's correct. No student loan debt all bundled in. >> So what? >> No student loan. >> How much is your house payment?

>> Uh 20. It'll be $2,800.

Now with the home equity, it was 20.

>> Okay. So if I take 200,000 minus 2,800 a

month, >> there's a lot left over.

Yes, I agree. You want to know what I think? I I I know where it's all going.

And you're not the first one to fall victim to this. You make a fine income.

It's a great income. You guys probably feel like you make a great income. And you've given yourself the excuse to be sloppy >> because you think that you can outearn bad financial choices and it always comes back to bite you in the butt. And that's what's happened to you. So, I think what's happened is it's not a budget problem. It is a I it's a self-control problem, right? Cuz you put those items, those line items, you say, "I'm only spending $500 on going out to

eat or I'm only spending $1,000 on groceries." And the self-control problem comes when you start to butt up against that line item amount. And then you say, you know, I'm just going to do it anyway, right?

>> Yes. >> I know I've overspent. I'm just going to do it anyway. And so that's a that's a personal problem. It's not a budget problem. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. There's one Yeah, there there's one more tivot to the to the equation. Yes, I make 200. Uh, however,

I'm I have a $100,000 base. The other

100,000 comes in two payments throughout the year in a bonus check.

>> Okay. >> So, it's that eb and flow. So, every six months, yeah, sure, I get the lion share, but throughout the uh other month is where I get myself in that trouble.

and I feel that a proper budgeting tool would help me become more disciplined.

And that's what I'm having. >> Let's pretend for a second that um let's just make up a number. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> Uh I'm we're going to put you on Every Dollar, the world's best budgeting tool that we've developed because we're the best at this. And and you and your wife are going to sit down and give every dollar an assignment before the month begins. Now, let if we could pan back a

little bit. You're going to have to walk into this carefully, and I don't know exactly how you're going to walk into it, but here's a plan. Let's pretend

that out of the next budget, out of the next bonus, which is half of your income, and that's a strain. That's where the strain's coming from. That's a good that's a good point of information, by the way. Thank you for telling us that. Um, so let's pretend that you need

$124,000, which is approximately or let's say $120,000, $10,000 a month minus taxes. So I need $10,000 a

month to operate, but I've only got $8,000 cuz I only got 100 8,300 because I only got a hundred coming in. You follow me?

>> Yes. So, out of the next bonus check, I

set aside $20,000

to subsidize my monthly baseline.

Follow me? >> Gotcha. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I'm writing it down. >> And so, or you can set aside if you want to make it even $24,000. That'd be $2,000 a month. So, out of my next bonus check, I said $24,000 into a separate savings account. Each month I move $2,000 over plus I have my hundred to work with. And I set my budget on that.

And then anything else in the budget, anything else in that bonus can go to reduce these debts

>> and to build wealth and to buy things.

If we were going to go on a trip, we'd take it out of a bonus check after we pulled our 24 out. Okay? If we were going to go buy a couch, we'd take it out of the bonus check in cash. if after

we pulled our 24 out. You know what I'm saying? So, >> yes, >> you know, you got a $50,000 bonus check twice a year. We're going to pull 24 out uh at least once a year or maybe 12 out of each one. Okay? And then that gives me some other amount of money out of that bonus. And you already need to have it also allocated before it comes.

Every dollar needs to be spent on paper and be in agreement with your spouse before it comes into your house.

and then stick to the plan the two of you wrote down and you pinky swear and spit shake and make a contract.

>> So there's no magic tool. This is just something I can build myself.

>> I'm going to give you the every dollar budget. That's the tool cuz it's a system that'll show you how to work the Ramsy process. But what I just designed for you is is a customized version.

Yeah. But to to deal with your

volatile income, your ir your, you know, because you probably can't live on a hundred, >> right? >> By the time you pay your house payment, your groceries, if you can, well, then you got another hundred to throw at stuff as it comes in, right?

>> Which will clean up all these debts real quick. >> I mean, a h 100red,000 to clean up almost every debt but your house.

>> Mhm. >> You No, you only have them. You You don't have anything.

Knock the second mortgage out. The first bonus check. Right.

>> Right. >> And no more credit cards. Cut them up.

>> Did you cut them up? >> You cut them up and use a debit card. We do not spend money. We do not have >> in the wallet. >> No, you got to cut them up. You got to take them out of the wallet and cut them up. >> They have to be They have to die. The accounts need to be closed. Debit cards only. The debit card will do everything the credit card will do except get you into debt.

>> Yeah. >> And and also something cool happens when you cut them up. You don't have anything to fall back on. So, you have to manage your money. You have to do it the correct way. Otherwise, when you run out, you you run out and there's nothing else you can spend on. So, that's good.

Um, yeah, every dollar is going to help you. It's going to be great. >> Yeah. Hang on. We'll have Christian pickup. We'll put you in the premium version. We'll pay for it and get you started. It's a free app, people, that you can download, but the upgrade version uh has it automatic downloads from your debit card usage from your bank. And so, it keeps everything up, keeps everything current automatically for you. It's very powerful tool. And it

actually has built into it all of the Ramsey system, the baby steps and shows you everything you need to do. And um you know, when you lay it out and the first time you do it, you're going to sit down. You're going to you're going to say, "Where's all my money been going?" >> Cuz here's 3,000 bucks. I can't I can't I don't know where it's been going.

>> Yeah. >> Everyone has that happen.

>> Um, >> but stick with it. Don't just do this one time in the first month. If you're in the red, quit. Stick with it. It takes most people 90 days to start locking in and really get the feel for it. So, stick with it. Don't quit after one month.

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Seth is in Boca Raton. Hi, Seth. How are

you?

I'm I'm wonderful. Thank you for taking the call. It's great to speak with you both. So Dave, before I ask you my money question and your and the specific advice, I'll give you a quick uh family dynamic and my specific financial vitals. So I'm 52 years old. Um I'm

single. Uh no kids. Uh no debt. I've been in debt.

I went bankrupt 20 years ago. Fortunately, uh I'm I'm in a lot better place. I make between $1,500 and $2,000 a week in cash. I work in the restaurant business, so it varies.

Um I own my car. Uh, it's just me and my doggy. Uh, I have $60,000 cash in the bank, so I'm doing okay. The bad news is I have no retirement.

So, the good news is is that my father um who who's so I decided to move to Florida a couple years ago when I realized my father's health was declining with Alzheimer's dementia. I have an older brother. So, the family dynamic is myself and my older brother. We never got along very well growing up and and most of our adult life.

But now with regards to my dad's health, uh it's actually helped bring our relationship to uh you know much stronger and it's a blessing and and it's a blessing. It's a blessing for me as an adult son to be able to move to Florida to make sure my dad is okay. Um we moved him into a retirement or I should say an assisted living and now in memory care. Um fortunately my father was always wonderful with money in terms of saving.

Unfortunately my mom passed and then so did my dad's second wife. So my dad is 84 as I mentioned. He has a long-term health care um policy which is paying for his assisted living. So really he, you know, we don't need to spend any any money really a month to take care of his needs. My dad's estate, we had a conversation, my brother and I, with with his financial adviser. My dad's estate is worth just under $5 million.

Um he's got about 900 800ish uh in an

IRA and then he has, you know, two accounts with Morgan Stanley. What we learned is that of that Morgan Stanley account, we kind of hit the stock lottery, Dave. My dad had a stock that he purchased for $22 a share, a thousand shares, and it's now trading at over $1,000 a share. So, we have about a million dollar position on one stock.

I think I know your answer, but I'm asking your advice. You know, do we do we sell off some of the stock? Obviously, move that then to a mutual fund. You know, how do we do it?

What's the best strategy?

>> So he has you said $22,000

invested in what turned into a million dollars.

>> That's correct. Yep. The $22 cost basis.

Y and we know that if we sold it, then there's, you know, long-term g there's long-term gain. But then, you know, if we keep it and then he passes away, we then get that that nuke step up basis.

so on and so forth. But but I know that 25% of his net income >> on what you've got to weigh out is the risk of a single stock >> is substantial because whatever that company does such so does the million dollars, right? >> If that owner comes out and decides he's going to be in the Epstein files and the stock goes the guy the CEO and the stock goes in half, then you lost a half million dollars.

>> Okay? That's because you got it in one thing. That's the risk. Okay. The

>> Yeah. >> Uh if you decide I don't want the risk, you're going to have $150,000 in capital gains tax. He's going to have 150,000 in

capital gains tax. Y'all are managing it for him. Okay. Uh and as you said, on

the that's on the one hand. On the other hand, if we leave it alone, we don't have any taxes, but we have the risk. Um

and he passes away, there'll be no taxes on it. So, it's a $150,000 decision. So, I'm going to weigh $150,000 in taxes against the risk that

this particular company is going to

somehow tank before this elderly, fragile man passes away.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> My brother had Yeah. Well, we wouldn't sell the full position. the the thought on our call on Monday was to maybe sell off like 20 25%. So we're talking about a a much smaller tax bill of you know 30 or 40,000 on a $200,000.

>> So here so the answer is this is let's

just be >> uh inappropriately callous. Okay. Can I

can I just be mean a minute? It sounds mean because I'm talking about your dad.

Okay. But as long as he passes away before this company does something wrong, >> then you would not have wanted to move it. So the sooner he passes away versus the risk, the less the less you would want to do that. And so uh I'm gauging his health and his situation

mathematically sadly uh against whether

we begin to move some of this away. Um and that that's what you do. So who is the company? Is it Apple?

>> No, it's Micron.

>> Hm.

Interesting. Micron. Micron is up 900%

in in one calendar year. Yeah. If you look at I'm sure you're probably familiar with them. You know, they do the AI chip and and it's it's it's literally like I call it a stock lottery.

So, >> yeah. My dad wouldn't >> it's a very it's a very volatile volatile position. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so do you so do you think do you think selling off 20% of that and then putting that couple hundred,000 in a mutual fund is it safer?

Kind of lowers our position and our risk a little bit. Is that a smart decision or >> um Yes.

to sell off 20% every year

until he passes. >> Yeah, that's that's kind of that's kind of what my brother and I were talking.

>> Yeah. >> Is there are there different strategies, Dave, that are beneficial like in terms of when we do decide to sell? Like I heard something about a covered call like or is that just >> No, I wouldn't get into all that. I would just say I'm weighing the stepped up basis against the risk of a highly volatile tech AI company. This is not a

this is not a steady I mean they're not a bad company. I'm not trashing them but

this is a sudden leap up which also is

um you know more accustomed to a sudden leap down. If this was something boring like Apple would be much more boring.

Agreed.

>> Yeah. Sure. Okay. >> So that that's and at at the stock price you were mentioning that's what kind of what I thought it was but that anyway but that one's been more of a steady thing where you know AI and microchip is just like suddenly on the scene and suddenly off the scene and suddenly it won't matter and suddenly nobody will care and it'll be worth zero. I Yeah, that scares me.

>> So I kind of thought that on on a separate subject um my dad happens to be a plaintiff in a class action lawsuit.

um his second wife passed and and and there's a class action lawsuit that he's involved in. If if my dad was to pass

before we got litigation because currently we're in litigation. We're basically waiting to, you know, see what the offer is in terms of our specific case with my dad's second wife. In your experience, would that still like if the if the plaintiff passes, meaning my dad,

does that then and then there's a judgment rendered, would that then go to my dad's estate, which is basically the trust of my brother and I have, or does that lawsuit go away? Just curious on that. So, the hedge on the phone and thank you again so much for everything you do. >> I'm not a legal expert.

I think it'll go to the estate, but I would ask an attorney to get a real opinion about that. My opinion is probably worth what you paid for it there, but I think it is.

talking gobbledegoop there for a minute.

Um, when someone has paid $22,000 for a stock that's worth a million dollars,

if you transfer it, if you cash it out,

obviously before you die, you um pay

taxes on the difference, the gain. If

instead it passes to your heirs,

they pay taxes on the difference in market value and whatever they sell it for. And if you sell it within 6 months of death, it is presumed to be market value by the IRS. So zero taxes on a

million dollar gain at death or taxes on

everything over 22,000 on a million bucks. So, basically a million dollar gain is a $150,000 swing in taxes. Uh if

they if these two brothers receive this

money with the stepped up basis to market value, they have no taxes

upon dad's death. But if the stupid thing goes in half, >> right, >> before then, you'll wish you had paid some taxes. >> And that's kind of what he's weighing out and what we were weighing out with him. But um yeah, it comes down to how

much faith do you have in that particular company to stay stable >> and how much faith do you have in sadly dad's health? >> I mean that's that's being very callous.

But that's the that's the mathematical analysis and then you've got to you know cry a little bit and have your heart in that and say out loud this is an awkward discussion weird to talk about but it's weird for me to sit down with my whole family and go over my estate plan once a year. If I die, wait a minute, people.

I'm still sitting here. But if I die this year, this is what it's going to happen. The if Dave dies this year meeting, it's very awkward.

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Gabby is in Gainesville, Florida. Hi Gabby. How are you?

Well, I'll keep doing that. Gabby, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you, Dave and Jade? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> All righty. So, um, my husband and I

just got married in January, and since

before we got married, we were starting on the baby steps cuz we both had student loan debt and a bit of credit card debt. Um, however, my husband owns

our house with his mother with his mother and my mother-in-law. um because they bought the house after he graduated college as an investment for him and she plans on um moving the ownership to myself within the next month or two. Um but she also plans on refinancing the house, but to do so it's tied with my husband's credit score and one of our biggest um debt sums is his credit card.

So she's been pressuring us to um make sure we pay that down. But since we've been following the baby steps, we've been going with our smallest debts first. So basically, my question is, should we focus on paying down his credit card so that we can refinance the house um or should we stick to the >> So how much is on the credit card?

>> It's about um 12,000. >> Okay. And how much is um the other debts?

>> So my student loans are about 14.

>> His student loans are 12.

>> Mhm. My credit card is eight.

>> Um, and his credit card is 12.

>> Yeah, you already gave me That's the one you already gave me, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. So, they're all fairly close. >> Yes. >> And your um And your household income now is what?

>> It's about 100K.

>> Okay. >> When you do the refi, what's the interest rate moving to?

>> So, they've been waiting for the interest rates to drop. Uh right now it's at 7% but they're hoping for at least five four percent.

>> What's it current I'm saying currently? >> It's currently seven.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Cuz the market rate right now is about five, right?

>> You need to talk to Church Hill Mortgage about your refinance. Okay. And get a 15-year fixed rate because you should be somewhere in that 5% range >> in the marketplace right now. And that's a wonderful savings as well.

>> That would be great. So, let me um

say something to uh as preventative medicine that's not the answer is yes.

Pay down the credit card because they're all fairly similar and this accomplishes a bigger goal and it's not because she's pressuring. It's because um she's offering. >> So, um I I I don't understand how we got

here with him and his mom owning the house together. that's not bothering me as much. And and what I want to make sure you hear is this lady is um

we we get all the calls that this went the other way. Like she's being hard to get along with and she doesn't want to

help you get out of it and she wants to stay on it and you think you have to own this house with your mother-in-law forever. And that's who we that's the call we usually get. This lady's going is very healthy in saying, "I want to put it into my new daughter-in-law's name as fast as I can." That is the right mother-in-law answer. You have You have a peach of a mother-in-law.

She's awesome. >> Oh, I definitely do. I >> It's just been a little bit stressful because we actually recently found out that we're also pregnant and >> Oh, wow.

>> That is so awesome. Very cool. Well, now she's going to be super nice.

>> Oh, yeah.

I love it. Hey, good for you. Yeah, I I I want to give her some props because she's uh she wins the mother-in-law of the year award on this show. No, most of the time the mother-in-law in this situation is a test pilot for a broom factory. And so, this one is really doing a good job. And uh so I want to

help her. I want you to appreciate her and to help her. Uh, and because she's really just handing you the keys to this thing, y'all got to just get the paperwork transferred, right?

>> Mhm. This is great. There's no other money involved this. >> That's so cool.

Yeah. We just got to get the refinance, get her name off the loan, and then she deeds it over to him and to the new daughter-in-law. That is awesome. And that only costs 12,000 bucks.

We make a hundred. Uh, I want y'all to work extra. I want you to sell stuff. Any wedding gifts that go back that you had duplicates of, turn them into cash and throw them on the credit card.

Uh, chop up all credit cards. Get on an every dollar budget. We're going to give it to you as a wedding gift. Uh the premium version and get you signed up.

The two of you sit down and just wear that thing out. You're going to come up with 12 grand in like uh 3 months.

>> Yeah, that would be great. >> Yeah. >> Um just a one more side point because I'm pregnant and we recently found this out so we haven't hit all the bills yet. How do we uh attack the baby steps moving forward?

Do we set aside part of We've been paying off debt at least $1,500 a month

since we started in January.

>> Yeah. I want to get you I want to get that credit card gone and then I want you to stop paying off debt.

>> Okay. >> I want you to stack cash until the baby comes. >> Okay. >> It sounds like you've listened to us before. We call it stork mode.

>> Yeah. So, while you're in STO mode till baby comes, we stack cash. And we don't use the cash. We're not building out a nursery.

We're using the cash to to pay off debt after you come home and the baby's okay and you're okay after you come home from the hospital. But this is just an extra little pad while we're pregnant. But before that, uh the first three months right here of your your first three your first trimester, we're knocking out that debt before we do go to STO mode cuz I got to get this house transferred. >> Yeah.

And that's where the side hustling has to come in. Otherwise, the math won't work.

and that's it. No, we got to get we got to get to 3,000 or 4,000.

>> Exactly. >> I And I'm We're going to squeeze this budget down super tight. We're going to work extra. And again, I'm selling everything in sight.

>> I really am. Cuz if you can get this house transferred and be rid of this one thing and then you stack cash till baby comes, you're going to be in a really peaceful situation.

>> Yeah. Margin's got to double.

>> Yeah. That that's very for a short period of time. I want y'all to go cray cray and knock this out. If you live like no one else later you get to live and give like no one else. Janice in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi Janice. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for speaking with me. Um, last night my mother gifted me

$53,000 and I am just wondering if I should put

that toward my mortgage, which is currently $215,000 at the 2.5 interest

rate. Or my concern is that all my

parents life they have been financially frugal, but they have not saved. They inherited quite a bit of money from a family member who passed and since then have been a little bit less uh

conservative with their money. So I'm worried that as they get older, I do know that they are currently spending more money per month than what they bring in with >> How much money did they inherit?

>> Over a million.

>> And that's >> why 53,000. Where' that number come from? Uh, it was a family thing. One person got that amount and so to to be fair, I also got that amount. I don't need the money, but the other person >> Um, let me let me help you. She's going to get hammered with gift tax unless she's got some estate planning going on.

>> Well, that is also part of my concern when I was looking up. Yeah. If you >> individual can give an individual 19,000 before you get into gift tax of 55%.

>> Mhm. They don't know anything about any of this and they just write checks.

>> Um, well, this is the largest check that I have received from them.

>> So, are you married?

>> No. >> Okay. Well, they can each give you 19.

So, that'd be 38. But everything above that, unless they file some paperwork called a unified estate tax credit and use up some of their estate exemption, which they can do pretty easily, they're going to get hammered with gift tax. You can't just hand out money unless it's a 501, unless it's a a properly done uh nonprofit and you're

not. So, uh, mom and dad need to get some tax advice and quit being ignorant.

They're about to get their butts kicked in an audit really bad because they

didn't half learn what they were doing.

So, I don't care. Out of a million, if they gave you a 53, they gave somebody else 53, they're probably okay. I'd put it on my mortgage. I wouldn't worry about the gift. I just worry about mom and dad anymore. They have less than 500,000.

So it's not they don't have a million anymore. They have less than 500.

>> You're worried that they're going to come knocking on your door when they blow through all this money and now they're going to be >> No, I don't think they would do that because they they would not ask me for that. But I feel, you know, compelled

more. If your house is paid, if your house is paid off because you use this to accelerate the payoff, then when they are in trouble someday, you'll be in a better position to help them. So, I'd put it on the house.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Jade Wshaw Ramsay personality number one bestselling author is my co-host. Ricky is in Riverside, California. Hi Ricky.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well. just a little nervous, but uh happy to be on talking to you guys. >> You too. What's up?

>> Um I have a pretty stressful situation

that my wife and I are going through. Um I've been animating and games making pretty decent money for the past four years. Um and I've recently lost that

job about a month ago. Um, and now just

doing the budget over the weekend, um, it showed that we were short about $3,000 this month just with the mortgage

and all of our bills and just groceries and

all that. Um, so I've been trying to figure out what is the best path and the

only thing that I can think of is possibly selling our house. Um, but I've

listened to you guys in the past and I'm not sure if like our situation warrants

that or if there's anything else that I can do, but um, just incredibly stressed. >> Not bad. I'm sorry.

>> That's scary. So, you were an animator, did you say?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> And you were making uh, I was on average it was 120 uh to

150. recently. Most recently, I was making 130.

>> Mhm. >> Um I just got a job at uh Home Depot.

>> Good. >> About 6 weeks ago. And um

sorry.

I'm sorry. Um

I'm making uh 21 an hour. So I think that's

like uh 40 40k. Um so I just I don't

know if I should >> Yeah. Is your Is your wife working outside the home? Sure.

>> Yes. She works for the state of California. Uh she makes about her take-home pay is 4,000. Um it would be higher, but they automatically deduct um her retirement. And >> what does she do there? >> Health insurance. Uh she licensed uh she

checked the licenses for foster care facilities. So >> Okay. And what what did the animation

job go away?

>> Uh it's just been the industry's been really rough. Um the the one that I just had was just a contract position um after a layoff that I had last year. Um

so this was the contract from September to the end of April. And right around the new year, I I've been applying, reaching out to old co-workers, anybody that I can, recruiters on LinkedIn, anyone, anyone that had any sort of connection. Um, I've had interviews. I had an interview recently at Apple. Just found out I didn't get it yesterday. Um,

interviewed the other game studios. I get close and then it's usually that final interview where I just don't seem to get it. Um, so I just I haven't been able to line up another animation job.

So you you but it sounds like there is jobs out there in this industry that the industry isn't dying.

>> Um you just hadn't landed after your last contract. You haven't landed the new gig is all.

>> In my opinion, I think it's it's dying.

During the pandemic, it was doing really well because everybody was stuck home gaming. So gaming studios overhired, things leveled back out and uh games

aren't doing nearly as well. So there's >> is gaming what you were doing before?

Yeah, I I've been doing game animation.

>> How is AI affecting animation?

>> I think it's I think it is starting to affect it to a degree. Um I think like

just like commercials are starting to use AI more that takes jobs away from animators. Um I don't think it's really

affected games yet, unless I just don't know. But it's it's affecting like movies and TV and advertising for sure.

Okay.

All right. Um,

but you're bringing in um

$3,000 a month and she's bringing in four and you're still three short.

>> Yeah, I have more. >> How much debt do you guys have? Not counting your house.

>> Uh, not counting the house. I did the math. It was about 160,000.

>> What?

Uh my student loans were 55,000. Um my

wife's are 20,000. We do have a car uh

for 40,000.

Um and just a couple of like personal loans like one for 17,000, another one for 10. Uh another for five. We owe

10,000 to the IRS from taxes not not

getting enough taken out of checks.

>> Okay.

All right. So, the levers to pull are um

before I'd sell the house, I'd sell the car and I'd sell it tomorrow. Um and and

get get out of a $40,000 car, get into a $5,000 car. Um >> and I would let the student loan put the student loans on hardship deferral temporarily. I'm trying to get cash flow going here. Um and then you need but if

you're going to pay something, you pay food first, lights and water second, house third.

and cars and car gasoline forth to get

to work. So, food, shelter, transportation, and utilities before you do anything, before those cards or are loans, student loans or anything else gets paid. Okay. But yeah, I'd get rid of the car immediately.

>> Um and um then I would set a

you know, I pick up another second job to go with this one. Yeah, I was going to say >> and fill in the blank here because you're not working 40 at Home Depot >> and can your wife pick up a side hustle as well?

>> Maybe my wife's they on Monday um I had

breakdown at work so they they actually converted me to full-time on the spot which was super nice. So I'm working 40 hours now. >> That's all though. I mean you can work another 30.

>> Yeah, I can. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not This is not a permanent solution. I'm trying to keep the water in the lake uh while we get a

a new position as a as an animator.

>> Okay. Um and then what I would do, so let let's pretend that you can strain and work 60 70 hours and she can work 60 70 hours. We sell the car. We're on beans and rice, rice and beans. We having a garage sale. We got so much stuff on Craigslist. The children think they're next. You know, we're really we're really dumping stuff out of here and we can barely hold on. That's what I

want to get to, right? >> And I think you can get there. >> I think you can get there. >> But that's a temporary thing. And then I would say if I don't land an animator's job and get my income back up to get us back to where we can breathe again within x number of months, then we're

going to sell the house. And so like three months, four months.

>> Okay. >> You can't sustain the thing I'm talking about for six years. >> No. This is a short term.

>> So, we're saying, you know, we're going to give this until after Christmas.

We're going to give this until Thanksgiving. Um, but, you know, if

we're thinking about selling a house, we would want to sell it after the first of the year. So, if you could hang on for 6 months doing this, uh, and if you haven't landed the animator job in 6 months, then yeah, you probably do need to do something different. You need to adjust your career.

>> Okay. The other thing I would advise you and I am not an AI expert by any stretch of the imagination although Ramsay is spending a lot of time on it here. Uh the people inside this building are um it is not the answer to everything. It is artificial. It is not real. Uh but it

is affecting disrupting some of these industries. And if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to learn what it's doing to my industry and I'm going to start learning how to use it instead of it putting me out of business.

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Sophia is in Maine. Hi Sophia, how are

you? Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm a going into my junior year in

college and I want to study abroad next

semester. Well, next spring in 2027,

but it's a good chunk of money and so I would probably have to take a loan out for it. So, I'm wondering if it's a good idea to do that. >> Should I take out a loan to go on a European vacation?

Well, um >> that's what studying abroad is, Sophia.

>> Yes, I know.

>> How much does it cost to study abroad?

>> So, the including literally everything, tuition, home and board, and even like spending money, they estimated it around um 18 to 20,000.

>> Okay. 18 to 20,000. Do you have any sort of job or any work that you're doing right now? Yeah, I made about I I go to school

full-time, but I made about $25,000 last

year. >> Okay. >> I think around that. >> Are there scholarships for this?

>> Yeah. So, all of my scholarships for my home university will transfer. So, I um I'll get about like 8,000 covered.

>> Okay. >> And then my own personal savings um I

don't have to pay until October. And so, I'm planning on saving like everything until then. So, I think I'll be able to get like a good probably another 8,000

on that. >> Okay. >> So, we're getting close. >> Yeah, we're getting close. But you you >> are spending every single dime you can scrape up >> on a European vacation while you're a broke college student.

>> Well, I mean, I don't care.

>> I mean, this has absolutely no economic or marketplace value, honey. Zero.

What are you studying? >> You're not going to come home and go, "Oh, every employer in Maine is going to line up to hire me because I studied abroad for one semester." Zero chance.

>> Yeah. >> This is a fun vacation thing to do.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 19. >> Yeah. I I You know, if your parent if

your parents are rich, >> that's fine. But I would not tell a 19-year-old person that I love to spend their very last dime to go on vacation.

>> How are your other semesters being paid for? Obviously, you've got the $8,000 scholarship. How are your other semesters at home being covered?

>> Um I go to college for free, so I don't have I don't have any um student loans at all. >> I will say this, and this is Jade's opinion, I traveled right out of college

for work. I was getting paid to travel, so that is a big differentiator. But I think traveling is one of the best things that you can do for yourself.

It's a different type of education. Um I

personally think that if you can cash flow this, I wouldn't stop you from doing it. But >> Mhm.

>> Dave, dad has told us something else.

>> Jade Jade and I can disagree and both be right. >> That's okay. Yeah, >> we can disagree and both be right. That's all right. >> Yeah. >> I I um >> Yeah. So I I I look at educ here's the

problem.

Okay. Um

the the if you qualify this as a vacation

>> and you say I'm going to spend all of my

year saving up to go on vacation cuz I value travel like Jade is talking about.

>> And you want to do it there. And you put that in that slot, that bucket in your brain. I'll back off a little bit and

not yell at Jade. Okay. >> $12,000 for vacation. Yeah, that's what you're saying. >> A little bit. But the problem I've got is when people call this education.

>> Yeah. >> Because there's very few things that you study abroad that add value to your

resume equivalent to what they cost.

>> What about like nothing? Would you factor in school of life, life experience, being able to see cultures outside the United States? That's a vacation. >> Yeah. But there's education to that.

>> That's not you can't call this education

is for the purpose of furthering your career.

>> It's not. >> That is a type of education.

>> Well, it it it it should be and especially when we start talking about borrowing on it. We're not going to do that. >> No, we're certainly Yes. Hear me. >> If you have to borrow, don't go.

>> Yes. >> Period. We're in agreement on that. >> Yes, we 100% are. >> You know, I here I'll just I'll just come clean. All right. We have plenty of money at the Ramsies. >> Uhhuh. >> And Rachel, >> she want to study abroad? >> She decides she's going to study Spanish in Spain for one semester. She did.

>> Oh, really? >> Yep. I paid for it. >> Okay. >> And we had the money. >> Are you mad? Zero Spanish to this day.

>> Zero strain. The The girl cannot call the dog in Spanish. I'm just saying.

>> A >> It's just absolute. I mean, loco, she

can't even get there. I mean, it's just not a chance. Loc, there's just no chance she can get there.

>> I speak more Spanish than she does.

>> She went over there and had a great time. Classic Rachel style. Wherever

Rachel is, Rachel has a great time, right? But it was absolutely freaking useless. >> Oh, man. Okay. And I look back and I go, I got completely as the dad. I got

scammed. >> You got swindled. You did >> because they told me this was education.

>> You got bitter. >> And what it was was a Spanish party

>> in Barcelona.

>> Okay, understood.

>> I'm bitter. >> You're bitter. >> I'm bitter. That's the problem. And Sophia, you walked into bitterness.

That's the problem. Now, all kidding aside, don't call it education. Call because it really isn't. I mean, even if you're studyer, if you're going to go to London and study banking, that's okay.

It does not add enough feathers in your cap >> for your future job to justify the expense. The ROI is not there.

>> It's an experience. >> A vacation. It's an experience. Oh, I'll I'll tell you there might be one exception. >> What's that? >> Art.

>> Okay. >> If you were going to study If you're studying fine art and you were going to spend time with the with the great masters in Italy, >> Yeah. Okay. that might actually add value to your resume enough

to help you with some of the big houses in New York. >> Okay. So, Sophia, >> you actually stood in front of there

>> a Michelangelo. I mean, you've stood in you haven't just studied it in a book, >> you know, or on a slideshow.

>> So, that might that might, you know, if you if you can spend time in Venice and see the light differences >> Yeah. >> then that are real and I'm not an artist, but they're real. uh um then that might there some there's something nuanced like that you might get your money back but most of this time most of this stuff is just bull crap >> I would say there's not a a there's

likely not a career ROI but you can

expand your life >> yeah your knowledge of different cultures >> there's some versions of going and getting a degree that are that but but we've now told people that you know you can spend $200,000 having this this degree that is well-rounded And you're a barista and you're not wellrounded. You're a well you're the best rounded barista I know. >> You're the most insightful on several subjects. No, thank you.

That's not a way to build a child's life. It's not a way to coach a 19-year-old cuz this is how we end up with a student loan crisis. And Sophia called about a student loan. >> Yeah.

The fact that you were going to take a a loan for this was bananas. I will say that. >> Yeah.

>> It is a fun discussion. Hey, I learned something. >> Rachel, Rachel, go on vacation. You get thrown under the bus, kiddo. I'm just saying. >> Just feel the bus tracks. Bloom bloom, >> man. Well, you're talking to somebody who's been to 92 countries. So, I love travel. I love Now, like I said, the difference I got paid to travel. I got paid to go to all these places. That's very different. Uh >> Well, you're working cruise ships. >> Yeah. What do you want? Yeah.

I mean that's a different that's a completely different thing than >> my college is taking me and I am going to study.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's it's just an experience.

It's a trip. It's a fun thing that you could do. >> It's a party. >> Yeah. It's beer pong overseas.

>> Oh boy. I can say this with I never played one game of beer pong my entire college. >> You didn't? Well, it was they didn't they didn't invented it when I was there. I would have been champion. You would have been the champion. Oh boy.

>> Bourbon punk. >> That's why we Yeah. Oh, there we go.

There we go. A whole new game.

>> Oh, guys, you have to be careful with education. It is It is an irony in America that we're stupid about education.

Let that settle in.

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all states. >> Okay, today's question comes from Shelby in New Jersey. She says, "My husband and I are both 35 years old and we recently combined our finances and did our first budget together. I paid off closed I paid off and closed my credit card. He stopped using his credit card, but wants to keep it just in case. Together, we

earn over $175,000 a year. Our own debt,

our only debt is $25,000 on a car loan.

We have the cash today to pay it off, but my husband will not agree to pay it off any faster than just the monthly payment we pay of $400 per month. I want to be debtree, but I want us to agree to commit to this way of managing money.

How can I best go about this? So, it

sounds like your husband is living. He

doesn't want to leave his comfort zone, right? Him closing up his credit card, that's uncomfortable for him because he likes it to fall back on just in case.

And also, yeah, paying off the car early, paying more than just the minimum payment, that sounds like it's setting him outside of his comfort zone. If I do these things, I'm going to have to change something about my life. I'm going to have to pull back on something. And it sounds like he's not interested in that. And you're right, that is a problem. Um, the best thing that you can

do about this is to share a deeper

reason why. Not just for the moment and

not just so we can be debtree. Those just so that we can be debtree feels great, but there's a deeper why behind that. And I would challenge you to put

words to what that is. Uh, what it means for your family tree, what it means for your marriage, what it means for your personal peace. And that is what I would share with him first and foremost before we even start talking about the numbers.

And then I would challenge him to share what his vision is for the family and what his wise are. That way all the cards are laid out on the table and you can actually have a conversation about the vision for your family and then now

we can start plugging in how do we get there together? >> Yeah, you're exactly right. If we pan back and we say, "Is our goal to keep a

car payment the rest of our lives?" >> Sure hope not.

>> Well, if you do that, then let's go on Ramsey Solutions and pull up the calculator. >> Yeah. >> And put in $400 a month >> from age 35 to age 65.

>> Yeah. >> In a decent growth stock mutual fund.

That's going to be several million dollars. >> Oh, yeah. It is. >> Hope you like the car.

>> Terrible. >> Yeah. >> It's a three million $3.2 million car. I hope you like it.

>> And um yeah, so the only way that

anything he is saying makes sense is in the next 30 days. In the next 30 months or 30 years, it does not make sense.

What it come out >> 1.2 million. >> Yeah. >> Unbelievable. >> Yeah. So which makes the 400 I want to

keep a $400 car payment statement asinine.

That's like saying, "I want to be middle class instead of be a millionaire on purpose because I really like car payments." Well, what a dumb butt thing to say. >> Yeah. >> I mean, seriously, that's just dumb. So,

you know, but you got to pan back and make sure that he grasps that instead of going, "Well, I think I'll just pay it out slowly." Well, what what are the implications of that? $1.2 million.

Hello. So, that's just dumb. And so you

pan back and you start going, look, the people that build wealth and the kind of life that I envision us living don't have car payments. The people that I

vision us envision us living like don't have credit cards. They are living on debit cards and they pay cash for things. They don't have any debt and they use what used to be all those debt payments to build wealth with. If you live like no one else and later you can get out of debt, build wealth and live like no one else.

I want us to go somewhere with this. Not always keep a car payment. You're always going to have a car payment. Might as well have a good car.

>> But that's what you're saying is so important, which is why you have to go beneath the numbers because when you're married, most people do some version of what they saw growing up or what they see the people around them doing.

>> But if he hasn't seen that fallout yet cuz he will. But if he hasn't seen that yet and so far everything seems okay in his mind what's the big deal? And then if you came from a family where we did we paid cash for things and we paid things off and you understood the implications of debt. Those are two different backgrounds working together.

And that's the emotional side of money that you do have to have conversations about. You have to understand where the other person is coming from in order to then shift the conversation in the way that >> there's no long-term scenario that his idea works in. >> No.

Zero. The only idea the only thing scenario he works in is in the in the immediate in the next 90 days. It feels

good to not have to have $25,000 in the bank and not have $25,000 card debt, but there's no, you know, no 10-year period of time that that you look at that and go, "Oh, that was really smart." It just does not occur. Yeah. So when you pan back and you extend vision to this, you said vision earlier >> and you add vision to the discussion, you say, I want to talk about how the where this takes us, not what we're doing this month, >> but where do the where does this philosophy take us? Into the land of brook.

where it takes me. And I want to go to the land of millions. That's a different land. There are more flowers there.

Hello. Caesar is in Denver. Hey, Caesar.

What's up?

Hey Ramsey, how are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I'm 21 and um I have a pretty

good paying job, but I feel like I've hit my pace ceiling >> at 21 age. And Mike, >> you already maxed out >> my industry >> in your industry or just what is your what is your industry that you maxed out at 21?

>> Uh so diesel mechanic.

>> What are you making?

I'm making $42 an hour.

>> You ain't maxed out. There decent mechanics making 120 out there, bro.

>> Working for themselves or other people.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I don't I don't know whether it's time to go on on my own. I've done out on my own. And >> no, I don't necessarily think it's time to go out on your own, but I think the particular line of diesels that you're working on and the particular industry that you're working on is not paying as much as some of the others are paying.

>> Do a do it. I mean, Mike Row and I were having this discussion the other day. Diesel mechanics are doing much better than a lot of lawyers.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like at 21, I'm making decent money with and like with >> You're doing great for 21 years old. 42 bucks is no slouch. But you're you're not you're not you know you can make six figures in your world, dude.

>> Now, you might have to be running a mobile truck. You might have to be out there on the road a little bit. You might have to uh you might have to go get some certifications on some engines that you're not that you don't know yet.

Uh you you know, I don't know what you're working on, but what and what the guys making 120 are working on, but I was just talking to Mike about this the other day, and he was saying that that this is one of the And there's a shortage in your world, too, by the way.

There's not enough guys and gals that know how to do it. Just a quick search tells me the highest paid diesel mechanics often work in specialized fleet maintenance, field service roles, overtime, power generation. But if you do those things, you can make upwards of 120 plus. >> Yeah. And that that was Google in 30 seconds, >> right? Or chat GPT or whatever you did.

It was not that was not like a detailed piece of research she just did.

>> But that's that confirms what Mike was talking about. So yeah, I you know, you might be maxed out. So, what I would tell you to do is uh move in one of those other more specialized situations, power plant situations, something like that. Get your income up, get some more uh uh experience, and then talk about

opening up your own thing somehow >> in running your own thing. People that own their own businesses generally, if they do a good job running the business, make more than the people that work for them. >> Yes. Yep. >> Doing the diesel mechanics. Absolutely.

So, there you go.

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Susan's in Milwaukee. Hi Susan. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah. So my question is about how to handle conversations about differing financial values with family members >> like who >> um like close family members >> mom and dad >> sib siblings >> siblings what tell us the situation that's where something's coming up and you feel like you need to have a discussion.

>> Yeah so um it's kind of come up a couple

different times. So, previously it's been about like vacation budgets. Um,

and we kind of set our budget and you can tell that it's maybe a little lower.

Um, recently it was about a last minute

travel plan situation and they didn't feel like they could commit to a date and I made the mistake of saying like, well, we can't afford to do like a last minute plane ticket cuz those can be obviously more expensive. Sure.

>> Um and their response was, "Oh, well, we

talked about it and we'll just pay the extra." >> And for us, yes, for me, and and it was

it's not I spoke wrong. It was not that we couldn't afford to, it's that we choose not to like >> You don't want to just turn around and say that. You know, the difference is listen, I got to tell you, Dave and Sharon love traveling.

uh we do not get joy out of traveling

without a plan >> or overpaying when you don't have to.

>> And uh and and so everything is planned out to the nth degree. Even our impulses

are planned.

>> And so uh that's what we get joy from.

Other people get joy about just landing

somewhere, getting a rental car, and figuring it out. And that is fun for them. I don't travel with those people.

>> They would drive me bonkers. And there are some of those people I love dearly, but we don't travel alike. And I'm not

staying in that place. I'm not sleeping in the back seat cuz you couldn't get a reservation. I'm not standing outside in the sun for an hour and a half cuz you can't get in a freaking restaurant. I've had the reservation for four months before I got there. And so that's the

difference. And it's okay if you want to

live free and all all that, then do it, you know, but Dave has a plan.

>> You're not wrong. >> And so it's either one's okay. And I just tell people that. So, and we have relatives and friends that are in both camps that are pl everything's planned out to the nth degree. Um, >> I mean, are they usually like that? Have you found in the past that, hey, we just are yin and yang when it comes to the way we travel?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean they're definitely more last minute. Um, they're also just willing to like, oh, it's not a big deal financially. Yeah, >> I think Dave's right. These are not your travel companions. I think it's as simple as that. And it's no shade. It's just >> I'm going with you. I'm not going with you.

>> If it's a if it's a family thing, the way we're going to go is if you plan it.

>> Otherwise, the family ain't going to be there. >> Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's totally fair because one one of

the ways costs us more money and we

don't do that the way we function. So you don't have to convert them to your way of thinking nor do you have to defend your way of thinking. All you have to do is just say no >> we don't go that way if if we would love to do stuff with you but here's the terms we plan it out >> and we you know we and we stay within our budget that way it's fun for us.

It's not fun for us otherwise. And this is your sibling or his >> mine. >> Okay. Well, just look at your sister or brother and tell them that.

>> No. >> Yeah. >> And no, you can't pay for it and make it all better cuz it's still not fun.

>> Yeah. And I don't like the way that feels either. >> No, I don't I don't I don't want that ick on me. So, thank you.

>> And that's kind of how it how it felt is like we're doing well and it feels like

we're now the poor family relation cuz we're not just willing to throw >> Yeah. Well, well, you don't care what they think, do you? >> That that feeling is on you. That's not on them. You got to just decide I'm not the poor family relation. I'm the family relation that plans >> and they can think whatever they want.

>> Yeah. Cuz I know I'm not the poor family relation for sure and I'm the one that plans. I mean, it's not I just can't stand it. Drives me nuts. So, it's okay if y'all don't want to go. It's okay.

But this is how we go. If you're going to roll with this how we roll. So, and we roll with the budget. We stick to our budget. That's fun for us. We stick to our plan. And that's fun for us. And you know, we if we want to do something a little different, we'll decide on the fly. But 99% of our stuff is detailed

freaking out. >> Yeah. >> And it's not okay if the details don't execute either, by the way. >> Yeah. And if you like here, here's the thing. If you truly like them enough to travel with them, then you should be able to have this conversation and it be all good when it's all said and and done. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, here's another

plan. Okay. like it there's a different kind of situation than yours, but we take our kids and grandkids all for a

week after Christmas somewhere warm and

Sharon and I pay for everything and we have since they got married that that's our gift to them and that is planned out

way in advance. uh they can speak into it a little, >> but generally speaking, we're going to our place, you know, and and this what we're doing. And I don't mind hearing from Rachel what she thinks she wants to do, but uh and that's cool, you know, but um but we're paying for it. And there's no shade on that. That's our gift. And uh but those are the terms.

>> There's a plan. >> And you know, we all agreed we're going, too, by the way. >> Yeah. >> You you don't come up and go, you know, I don't think I'm going to go this year. No, you already told me you're going and it's already booked. >> Yeah, it's faithful. >> So, yeah, you're going. And that that's I mean, we don't tell people what to do.

We just tell them what to do, you know? It's like But I mean, it it's um but I mean Yeah. I think what's happening here is there's more than a travel or budget discussion. It's the shade that's being thrown.

>> Yeah. And it's making her feel a type of It's making her feel like she has to defend herself. And >> Yeah. I just take all that off the table and go, "This is who we is.

You want to play with us? This how this the rules of our sandbox. >> I like your usage of shade, Dave. That's You're doing good.

>> I'm picking it up from you. I got the cool kids around me and the cool kids are teaching me these things. So, I heard you use it earlier and I thought I'd just bring it back up and act like I knew what it meant. >> You did good.

>> Boom. Boomer uh boomer usage.

>> There we go. >> Good job.

>> Oh man, Evalu or Ivaloo. Ivaloo is in

Michigan and I pray God I got that right. Ivaloo. Am I close even?

>> You're close. >> Okay. What's How's it pronounced?

>> Ivaloo. >> Oh, it is Ivaloo. NOT A CLOSE. I GOT IT.

I NAILED IT. ALL RIGHT. IVALOO, what's up?

>> I want to know if service contracts for car repair through my dealership is a

good or bad investment for my car.

>> Really bad. Horrible.

So, I should I should just planner on spending the money for the repairs for the next few years. >> Yep. You want to hear the numbers?

TW 12% of what you pay covers the

repairs.

50% covers the marketing and the

commissions paid to the salesman that sold it to you. And the rest is profit.

12%. >> So if you paid if you paid $10,000, $1,200 worth of repairs is what it covers on average. These things are unbelievably profitable and the guys love to sell

them cuz they make almost as much selling that stupid extended warranty as they do the entire car.

>> Okay. They're they're telling me a 7-year bumper-to-bumper will cost me $2,759.

>> Yeah. Well, there's already a warranty on there that's bumper to bumper.

They're extending it to seven.

>> No, the warranty is expired.

>> Okay. And how expensive a car is this?

>> Um, I purchased it in March of 2025.

>> Mhm. >> It's a 2023 Buick Encore.

>> Yeah. >> And I paid $22,000 cash for it. >> Okay. the vast amount of that $2,000 is

not going to come out in repairs on average. So, if you were going to start an an extended warranty company, you would figure out the probability of the car breaking and you would set aside that amount of money on out of a,000 Buick Enclaves. How much is it going to cost me to cover it for 7 years and you're going to figure out it cost me 500 bucks to cover it for 7 years on average across 5,000 of them? Okay? And

then you would figure out I got to pay the commissions and I got to have a profit. And that's how you run an insurance company.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Christina is in New York City.

Hi Christina. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Ah, uh, long story short, um, my husband's family has a vacation home that is currently owned by my mother-in-law. And, uh, a couple years ago, uh, we offered, uh, to take it over, take care of it, pay for it, deal with the maintenance, um, because that's what my late father-in-law had wanted.

and he had always told my husband that he eventually would um inherit this home

because they built it together when my husband was like 5 years old. Um, but my

sister-in-laws did not agree with this plan and said they did not wanted this house to go to him. That they wanted it

um to be split three ways. Um, and that

they wanted my mother-in-law to continue paying for it, you know, until she passes away to like keep it all in a trust together with her other property.

Um, but now my mother-in-law is getting older. You know, maintenance is is taking a lot. It's another expense that she doesn't have the money for. Um, and now she's asking us all to split um the

cost for the house um four ways.

>> No. >> And my one Yes.

>> No, thank you. >> And my one No. Yeah. So, and my one

sister-in-law already said that she's not doing it. So our question is should

we split it four ways or at this point I guess three ways but we will not own this house eventually or should we just look for our own house?

>> You should look for your own house.

>> Okay. That's what we keep on thinking.

So we should just >> This is called a dysfunctional family.

>> Yeah.

>> Isn't it? >> Yes. Yes. And you know my father-in-law really wanted it to go my to my husband.

There were conversations I had. It >> doesn't matter. He didn't He didn't cause it to happen. >> I know. >> If he really wanted it to, he should have put it in a trust before he died.

>> Yeah. >> And then the sisters-in-law could pound sand.

>> Yeah. >> Which is what they need to do. They need to pound sand, but I don't think they're going to. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, I guess for her, >> there's two sisters, right?

>> Yeah. Two. >> And one is already opted out. If the

other one opts out, tell your mother-in-law to to deed it to the trust now to your son, to your husband, and

then we'll pay the bill. >> That's what we had. >> If you'll go ahead and deed it to us now, we'll pay the bill.

>> Yeah, that's what we had said two years ago. >> I know. We'll say it again, though. >> And yeah, >> why won't she do that?

>> Um because my sister-in-law said no, they don't want that to happen. >> I know, but they don't want to pay anything either.

So, mom, since they don't want to pay anything and we're the only ones wanting to pay anything, why don't we do what dad said to do originally and deed the stinking house to me and I'll pay for it.

>> Yeah. >> But if you're not going to do that, we're not in.

>> So, mom, you get the choice.

>> Somebody's going to be disappointed.

>> Let's decide who. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And if she doesn't do it, then we I mean, this is what I just little

property. >> Yeah. It's just a house. Just let it go.

Now, what would you do? It's her fault, not yours. We have three. I know. We have three children as well. What would you do so this doesn't happen to our children? And the >> I would raise my children better.

>> Yeah. >> Where they're not brats.

>> But like we are talking about like maybe having like a trust for the house that has like I don't know a certain amount of money in. >> Yeah. But how about your father? How about father before he dies communicates to his three kids? I built this with my son. I'm leaving it to him. This is what's going to happen. And you two will get other things, but you're not getting this. Instead, he never bothered to communicate.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's what a lot of people do.

They wait till they're dead to piss people off.

Go ahead and piss people off while you're alive. >> If somebody's going to be mad, go ahead and do it while you're alive. This is how you do it. There's not an estate plan that works where there's no communication.

Everyone should know every detail that

involves them.

Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So Rachel, Daniel, and Denise can tell you what happens with our lakehouse.

We've all decided together while we're up walking, while we're upright,

and then then they can, and in this case, by the way, they're going to own it together. And then they can decide to buy each other out. They can they can sell the thing. They can burn it. I don't care what they do. I'll be gone.

But it's theirs to decide. And if I'm going to leave it to one of them or if one of them wants to buy the other two want to buy the other two out, it's not going to make me mad that they do whatever they want to do. >> I hate the lake. I don't want to go down there anymore. Okay, cool. Y'all work that out.

But that, you know, you if you clarify

it upfront and often in your estate

plan, you don't have the first reading of the will after death. You have the first reading of the will as soon as the will is complete.

Does that make sense? >> And I guess that's what my Yeah, that's what my mother-in-law is trying to do now, but she's not really honoring her

husband's wishes. No, what she's trying to do now is offload the expenses

without offloading the ownership.

>> Yeah. And that >> that doesn't work. >> Yeah. >> I don't want the expenses unless I get the ownership. No, thank you.

>> Okay. >> And uh so really honestly what should

happen here based on now I'm getting your opinion and you're pissed at your sisters-in-law and I don't really blame you. So, but but so I haven't heard their side, but from what I'm hearing, what I would say is that mom needs to say, "Hey, I offered you guys a chance to chip in. You don't want to chip in.

And so, I'm going to step back and I'm going to honor dad's original wishes.

I'm deeding it to your brother. You'll get other things in the will, and I'm going to go ahead and move it into a trust for your brother now, while I'm alive, and he's going to pick up the expenses from this point forward. You will not be getting the lakehouse. um take care of you and other things, but I'm just letting you two know you had the option and you opted out.

>> Yeah. Sadly, it's only one of them that's opting out. >> I know, but that's okay. Just step in.

>> Yeah. You know, that's what I would do if I was mother. They don't have a choice. It's hers. She gets to do with it what she wants.

>> If even if the story wasn't what the story was, she could just wake up in the morning and go, I'm giving it to you.

>> Yeah, she could. I think the problem with this too is there was information that you knew that the sisters probably never knew. They probably never heard that the lake house was supposed to go to your husband or go to you.

>> I think I kind of knew, but um you know they don't father-in-law any kind of change. >> He's dead but I think he was a wuss.

>> He did like to keep the peace.

>> Yeah, he he keep Well, he didn't keep the peace. What he did was he he avoided conflict. There's a difference. You keep the peace with clarity.

>> Avoiding conflict is just cowardice.

>> Yeah. And whatever conversations have need to be between the husband, not not you, cuz you're the in-law.

>> Yeah. I would not You don't need to be talking to mom. You don't need to be talking to sisters at all because it's not going to go well. Jade is exactly right. Good advice. Good advice, Jade.

>> Yeah. So, your your husband should call his mom and say, "Mom, this is what dad really intended. If we're not going to do that, we're not going to participate.

I'm sorry. If you would like to do that though, if you want to go ahead and deed it over, I'll take it off your hands and you won't have to worry about it anymore and we will have fulfilled dad's original wishes that we all know were there. >> And just there's no time to cover this, but you've got to view inheritance as the cherry on the top of the Sunday. It can't be the thing that you're counting on to break you free. >> Right. Right. Yeah.

>> You were counting on this as your house.

>> On the other hand, you don't want to be handcuffed to it either.

>> Yeah. I'm going to be in an LLC with my sister who steals money was yesterday.

No, thank you.

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Nate is in Phoenix. Hi Nate. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes, sir. Um, so my question, I am a 21-year-old recent college graduate. Um,

I'm starting out a career in aviation here in Phoenix, but my question more so revolves around around a $5 million uh real estate portfolio that my late grandmother, she passed away a few uh months ago. She built it up um over the

past 40 years by being a nurse and having a house cleaning company. Um, and so no one else really in my family at the moment um is like willing to kind of

manage this portfolio that she built up.

It's roughly a dozen um houses, apartments, condos, etc. across four different states. And so I'm kind of looking to take that on. And the challenge being I have a job here in Phoenix um and my siblings and parents have jobs as well. And being that it's it's spread across um all the way from Hawaii to Pennsylvania, we're looking at what is the best way to manage this.

>> If you inherited it, why are you >> Yeah. >> Oh, so it's it's in my mom's name. Um

but my parents are nearing retirement age. They don't want to take on any big ventures um or basically like you know have a huge hassle of managing this. So I have basically stepped up and told them I want to take advantage of this opportunity and >> why is it an opportunity? >> How will you get what's your benefit?

>> Well my benefit is I I've you know I've read a lot and seen a lot online how real estate can you know be beneficial in terms of building income. What's your what's your financial benefit to it?

>> You want to be a property manager because you read real estate online.

>> No, I wouldn't say Yeah, I don't want to be like I want to basically figure out

how I can turn these roughly dozen properties and build it into something that's beneficial for our entire family.

>> So, you're thinking I just want to I want to make this very clear. Are you thinking, hey, if I help this build from 5 million and maybe I, you know, double it or whatever, then when I inherit it, it's going to be even more. Is that what you're thinking? Or are you thinking you can just earn some sort of salary off managing this? Or is it both?

>> So So it it's more so not that I really want a salary. It's really I almost want to turn it into a family business if if that makes more sense. >> You keep saying family business and yet you don't own anything.

Yeah, because I mean my parents, like I said, my parents own it, but they have kind of like I have talked with them and we've kind of come to agreement where they want me to basically take the lead on it because they're nearing retirement. No kidding. How are you getting paid for this?

>> That's dumb. They want to hire their 21-year-old who had other life goals to now be a property manager is what you're saying because you're getting nothing out of this. No, I don't want you to do this.

Because you read an article on Tik Tok and got excited about real estate. No.

>> If they don't like >> even if >> you don't own it. >> If they don't if they don't enjoy property, they can always sell the properties and invest the money.

>> Yeah. You don't own it.

>> Nor or anywhere in this discussion have you ever owned it. You've never indicated anywhere in this entire time.

We asked you four times, are you going to own it? No, I'm just going to run the family business. Well, then you're just a stinking employee. And I don't even

think they've said that to you that they're going to pay you money or a certain amount of money to run this.

They haven't said that.

>> Yeah. Well, I guess like I mean following the logical line of progression here, I guess eventually me and my siblings are going to inherit it.

>> So, >> and your siblings are going to benefit from all your work because you're not.

>> Yeah. So, do you think I should >> I think you're I think what's happening is you're operating, Nate, on a a set of assumptions and they are massive assumptions. Yeah. >> You're assuming that >> you're going to end up with this.

>> You're going to end up with this and that you're going to have a bigger percentage of this and that there's going to be a family business. You've got a lot. >> Let's play this out. Let's play this out.

You go in there and you work for a few dollars enough to support you while you screw with this. And you run this from 5 million to 20 million.

that you built, >> you're going to be pissed. >> That is not a good plan.

>> So, yeah. So, I guess your advice would just be to like, you know, let >> your mom and dad Yeah. If your mom and dad want to say, "In return for managing

our property, we will pay you a property

management fee and we will deed these

four properties to you now."

>> Mhm. >> And then you do with those four properties something good for you.

Meanwhile, you manage the others for your siblings future cuz your parents aren't going to do anything with them.

Now, that would be one thing. Now, the second piece of this is I heard a couple other things in there. I'm going to change horses on you now that I dropped that on you. But no, don't just go in there and assume you're going to that this is all going to work out cuz it's real estate.

It's not. Uh now then the other thing is you said properties scattered from Hawaii to whatever to another problem. >> And that is a bad I mean and there's only 10 or 12 properties. It's not like you got this huge portfolio.

So you guys need to sell off some of this stuff that's stuck out there in the middle of Egypt somewhere and get and get this get the properties centralized where you can run them.

All of my portfolio is all where I can

touch it within a short drive. And so

and that that's what the kids are going to end up with in this case. So um yeah,

if you know you guys need to do some estate planning and figure out end game after you grow this portfolio, how do you benefit from growing the portfolio other than just the thrill of growing the portfolio? And in the meantime, how

do you eat >> which would be the property management piece? What needs to be how Dave go even deeper on the like this needs to be in writing. This needs to be somewhere talk about it over Chick-fil-A. Yeah.

>> And then we also tell the siblings.

>> Yes. >> You know, so Nate is taking over the property in return. Nate is going to do this, this, and this. Okay.

>> We all know. >> Okay. So, in our case, Rachel's husband

Winston has a real estate company that he and I started. He has done other

things with it on his own behalf that I have nothing to do with now. And he also

manages all the Ramsey property and gets paid for managing the Ramsay property.

He does not own any of the Ramsey property. The three Ramsay Gen Twos will own the Ramsay property. One of which is his wife, >> but he's not >> managing it for the family vaguely hoping he'll get something someday. He knows exactly what he's going to get.

Mhm. >> Uh his wife is going to get onethird of the portfolio upon Sharon and my death.

And in the meantime, he's being paid commissions and management fees to run a

real estate company, which he thoroughly loves. And I like working with him, so it's all good. Perfect. >> But that's a very clear delineation of what's where. And by the way, he kind of came at it like Nate did. >> He wanted to learn the real estate business. I know it. He wanted to get involved in it. We I I was one of his I

was his initial mentor. So over the years I was one of his mentors. He's had other people that didn't just learn from me, but I kind of helped him get started and um I did. And so uh

>> this guy needs a mentor. He can't just jump into this. >> I'm I'm in aviation.

>> Yeah. >> No, I'm in the rental property business in Hawaii. >> That's And it's going to be different in different each country and each state that he's in. Yeah. Well, Hawaii is a different country.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Keegan is with us in Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Keegan. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I had a question I wanted to run by you. Uh, I turned I'm 22 now, but

back when I turned 18, I took out some credit cards and racked up uh, to me a

significant uh, debt and I finally now

I'm just facing it. I'm 22 and I got a

job, full-time job, and I've been working on paying it off. >> Good. What do you make? Uh, >> I make $3,500 a month.

>> Okay. Working 40 hours? Uh, >> yes. >> What do you do?

I work for a pain cream company, Nano Extreme Pain Cream.

>> Okay. >> The marketing for it. >> Yeah. And um how much credit card debt did you run up?

>> Um I ran up u about $40,000.

>> Mhm. >> Is that all the debt you got?

>> Uh $40,000 and then I have some student

loan debt. Altogether I had $70,000 of

debt. >> Okay. So, student loans are 30,000.

>> Yes. >> No car debt.

>> Uh, well, I was watching your show and I ended up selling my car about two weeks ago. Um, because I am able to ride into work with somebody. >> Wow. >> Very good. >> What' the car sell for?

>> I sold it for 13 grand. So, I was able to put that towards the car. Um, so I

just paid that off. So, I don't have a loan on that anymore. >> Big move there. Excellent. Way to go.

All right. Okay. So, the 70,000 >> I had some >> Yep. And then I had some bicycles that I sold. I I sold those for $10,000 to pay off some debt. I ended up paying off uh two credit cards that total up to $8,500

in debt. So, look at it. Get it.

>> So, you're with >> Oh, 43,000. >> Down to 43. Yeah.

>> But there's 70 total, including student loan debt. Yeah. Okay.

So, I have a friend um who offered to

pay off all my debt and I pay him back.

>> Um I don't really know if I want to do that or not because I don't want to ruin I know money can ruin a relationship and I'm not sure if I want to go down that road. >> It's not really money that ruins it.

It's the uh change in the relationship that can ruin it. Um so who you're 22.

What kind of a friend has $73,000?

Um, uh, he comes from generational wealth.

His dad's, uh, very wealthy, so he has

lots of money just laying around.

>> Wow. >> Okay.

>> Um, yeah. >> So, he offered to pay it for me, and I have to pay him back, of course, but I'm not sure if I want to do that.

>> No, I I I would not do that. No.

>> Okay. >> I think you're making wonderful progress because you've done a couple of things.

One is you became very focused and clear on your debt attack. And two is you've been very impressively willing to sacrifice and very impressive. And so >> yeah, I mean it's not what I want to do at 22, but >> but my whole life like this.

>> Yeah. But what you don't want to do is live under the thumb of a credit card either. So you're wanting to get out. I'm going to fight my way out. No, I I think uh I I think it's a kind offer and I appreciate it. The problem is um that

when you borrow money from someone, you change the relationship to that of master servant. The borrower is slave to

the lender. And even if and so if you're a slave, by definition, you have a master. And even if your master is a very nice person or is an unconcerned person, they still become your master.

And it changes the air in the room.

They start thinking about how much this guy works. They start thinking about if you're going on vacation. They start thinking about if you went to happy hour. All of a sudden, they're thinking about it. Even if they have plenty of money, quote unquote, laying around.

>> Yeah. Because this is your friend. So, he has front row seats to how you're living your life every day. >> Yeah. So, I mean, it's a it's it's kind of sounds good on the surface or it sounds it's actually a nice offer.

>> Yeah. Sounds good. But but it's going more times than not to your point it ends in disaster, Keegan. So I will tell you this, I if

you can get some transportation of some kind, I'd love to see you pick up an extra job for 30 more hours and you know

and continue to accelerate the plan that you've already got. That's what I would do. But the secret sauce to this, Keegan, is not mathematics on the interest rate. You get a better interest rate with your friend. that the secret sauce is not that at all. The secret sauce is Keegan. When Keegan changed,

everything changed.

And before Keegan changed, nothing changed. So once you decide you're going to ride this thing, you're riding it.

I'm proud of you. Keep after it, dude. I want you to look in the mirror and go, you're the answer to the problem, not borrowing from a friend. >> That's right. >> And that might include working another 30 hours a week somewhere, which I really wouldn't mind you doing at all. Todd is in El Paso. Hey Todd, what's up

Todd? >> Hey, how's it going? Sorry about that. I was kind of muted a little bit. My bad.

>> No troubles. What's up?

>> Hey, so anyway, I was uh I've kind of

gotten myself kind of like screwed over a little bit, I guess you could say. I was out uh getting uh I had a friend put

me on to getting Pokemon cards and I think I went a little too far over because I racked up Well, I talked to the lady on the phone before this. I racked up like thousands of dollars in credit card debt to help pay for my Pokemon cards. >> How much is How many thousands?

>> Uh probably like 10 to$15,000.

>> Okay. All right. So, how much credit card debt do you have exactly? Do you even know?

>> Uh, no. I don't really like pay attention to it like that.

>> Mhm. Well, step one, identify the

problem in detail.

>> You're lost. You're screwed. You need to find the map that has the little red arrow on it that says you are here.

Here you are. It's $13,426

of stupid. I want to I want to define my stupid very carefully and thoroughly.

That's step one. Step two is take assessment of the inventory of Pokemon cards and what and how you can move them. So, you've been trying you bought them uh to speculate on them and try to retail them back out. You tried to buy them at one price and sell them at another price, right?

>> Uh correct. And uh >> did you do that successfully ever?

Uh, no. I kind of just uh winged it because I saw other success stories and I was like, you know what? I'll use the credit card. You know, my logic was I'll use their money cuz it's not mine and then if it doesn't work then >> why out maybe then it's your money after all. Who knew? Yeah. >> I I have a feeling this is a symptom of something else. What caused you to be so desperate that you would do 10,000 or

however much on on a credit card for Pokemon cards?

>> Oh, that's just the American dream in my mind. I'm just trying to like make the the next dollar like any >> American dream is to go broke in credit card debt.

>> Well, when you were like that.

>> Yeah. Ah, dish.

>> I wanted to like >> What do you do for work? What's your job?

>> Uh, I kind of like bouncing around employment.

I'm kind of >> There it is. Looking for a new >> And there it is. A little >> Okay, that's what I was getting to.

There was something going on. >> Yeah. Ding ding ding ding ding. >> Okay. Okay. So, you believe crap like you heard like it takes money to make money and so I'm going to be a Pokemon guy because two people I know did this once and um instead of working. So,

here's what I want you to do. I want you to get a 40-hour job and then what I want you to do right after that is I want you to get another 30-hour job and pay these pay these credit cards off.

Meanwhile, call some of your stupid Pokemon friends and say, "Hey, stupid friend. You got me into a stupid mess cuz I was stupid. And we're going to get this mess cleaned up and sell these stupid cards. Now help me with this and

let's get these cards moved instead of sitting around looking at them. Cuz every day I got to look at them. If I'm you, I feel dumber.

>> Yeah. The American >> I've done dumb things, Todd. You did a dumb thing. So I know what dumb things look like. And dumb things when you leave them sitting there in your house.

They shame you. When you walk by, they go, "You did a dumb thing. to you. They tell you. >> I had a car parked in my driveway one time. It kept saying, "Dave, you're stupid." >> Yeah. >> You're dumb, Dave. >> Yeah. >> You look what you did, Dave.

>> So, I got rid of that stupid car. I felt stupid every time I drove it.

>> Yeah.

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

And that's what you'll get with the Every Dollar Budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings, and it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So, no more wondering where your money's going.

You're telling it where to go. Download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day, John 13:35. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another.

Thomas Soul said, "Some of the biggest cases of mistaken identity are among intellectuals who have trouble remembering that they are not God.

>> Oh boy.

>> Whoa.

David is in Denver. Hey David, what's up?" >> Uh, not much Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I'm on baby step six. Um, paying off my home. I have no debt at the moment and I've been in the corners of the YouTube finance world and I found a video about bi-weekly mortgage payments

>> and signing up for that program. So, I'm currently owe $420,000

on a 5.98 30-year fixed loan

>> and I'm two years in and I was wondering, do you recommend that I sign up for the bi-weekly mortgage payments?

>> Uh, I would not pay a fee for it. Is there a fee associated with it?

>> Yes, sir. uh to enroll. Rocket Mortgage does require a single upfront mortgage payment, which for me is $3,500. So, I would have >> They hold as a fee. They take that as a fee. >> Wow. >> Uh no, I do I guess not a fee. I think it goes towards a principal, sir.

>> Are your is your mortgage with Rocket?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Are they charging any fee for the service of the bi-weekly? An actual fee?

>> I don't believe so, sir. I believe they just asked me to make a one-time uh mortgage payment uh to enroll and then I am enrolled from then on. >> Okay, that's possible. I'm not real trusting of Rocket.

>> Ah, >> cuz Rocket has a lot of shysters going on in there. So, be careful. But let me let's walk through it. Here's why I'm asking that question. All right. So, basically, a bi-weekly mortgage is half

a payment as you know, David, every two weeks.

>> Yes, sir. There are 26 two week periods

in a year. So 26 halves is 13 holes,

>> right? >> Which means that a bi-weekly mortgage effectively pays a single payment extra

per year.

>> Correct? >> So mathematically, you would be within $15 of this by simply just writing a check once a year for an extra payment.

That's true. And so I kind of thought like what uh >> there's no magic.

>> Yeah. The bi-weekly is not magic. It's just a way to trick you into paying extra principal.

>> I see. >> And that's the only thing that does it. So if you just took your regular mortgage and once a year sent an extra payment above your regular mortgage, you'll be within 10 or $15 of the same exact result. So it takes a 30-year mortgage and turns it into about a 23.

It takes a 15-year mortgage and turns it into about a 12.

I see. >> But it's all done by an extra principal payment a year. And really, truthfully, you're on baby step six, so you may be doing more or less of an extra principal payment a year. Are you paid every two weeks? >> Yes, sir. I do have a salary position.

So does my wife. We uh we earn about 186

$186,000 a year.

>> So it would be it would be kind of an autopilot thing to at least get one extra payment a year. But I with those numbers you're giving me, I want you to put more than that on there anyway, don't you?

>> Uh, well, the problem is my uh my I have a four-year-old son and I'm paying $22,000 a year for daycare. Um, and that

just really hurts the budget. I do feel like I'm house poor. I feel like I'm kind of, you know, >> if you're a house poor, you don't need to increase your house payment.

>> Yes, sir. I'm just trying to pay this thing off as quickly as possible. Um, currently, >> well, the way you're going to do that is extra principal payments, not being house poor from daycare. So, you got to decide which which life is it you're living here. But either way, if I want you in baby step six for your sake

>> to get the house paid off.

>> And the way you're going to do that is extra principal payments. If you want to do that by setting it up as a bi-weekly and they don't charge you a fee to do it, see, if they're charging you 500 bucks to do this or something, well, crap, no. I'll just send it an extra payment, >> right? >> But if they're charging you no fee and you want and you're paid bi-weekly and it's easy, yeah, let's do that. But let's also plan to do more.

>> Um, excellent. And before I let you go, um, I do, uh, earn $11,000 a month with

my wife after taxes, and my mortgage is 3500, which equates to 32.2% of my

monthly income. Uh, since I'm on baby step six, I don't have any debt. Do you still think I can keep this house? I know you always say sell the house is too much, but I really want this home. I think that you're feeling the squeeze, especially right now because you have somebody in daycare and that's a there's a seasonality there that's not going to be like this for all time. So, I think that's why you're feeling the squeeze.

If there's something you can do to offset that in the meantime, I would do it. >> Yeah. And I'm not >> And that's putting the take-home pay you outlined is after you put money in 401k, right? >> Yes, sir. My >> That's not the number. No, that's not the number. >> That's the wrong calculation. >> That's the wrong calculation. When we say take home pay, we mean just after taxes only.

>> Yes. Uh yeah, it's uh 11,000 hits our joint account a month.

>> I know, honey, but that's after they took money out for 401k >> and probably insurance.

>> Yes, sir. >> Those two numbers don't count in the calculation. So, you're not at 32%.

>> OH, OKAY.

>> That's what I'm saying. The only numbers that count in the calculation for take-home pay is after taxes, gross

minus taxes. So add back insurance, add

back uh in your calculation and then say

of that number, what percentage is it?

It's going to be down close to 25. So you're you're fine. I don't think you're hurting here. I I think you're just, you know, observing the fact that not you're not out of debt completely yet. And even when you are, it's not a magic pill.

>> It's just uh it's just a better place than being in debt. That's all.

Everybody listening needs to understand what you just said about take-home pay, which is it is only the after tax amount. >> When we say have your house be 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, we're talking about only after taxes.

Not after child support coming out, not after your car payment coming out and going to the credit union. >> Not after the insurance, not after insurance, not after 401k, not after a

not after any of that stuff. Okay? So, put all that crap. That's not what we're talking about. Good point. Aaron is in Minneapolis. Hi, Aaron. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. So, we recently moved to a country home. We

thought it would be our dream home, our forever home that we'd raise our kids in. Um, but after moving here, we realized we hate country life. We miss living in closer to a city. We miss sidewalks, all the amenities.

We have another home and we are renting

it out and we thought we would rent it out for a few years and then sell it and then use that money to pay off said country home. But now we are unsure of

what to do because we do not want to stay in said country home.

>> We'll sell said country home and move back to the city. >> What's wrong with that?

>> So our other home is 3 hours away and

sell both of them and buy a house in the city.

That's what you think we should do? >> Sure. If >> if none of them are working for you.

>> I don't want a rental house in a country home and I want neither. Why don't we say I don't want to own them anymore. So what am I going to do? I'm going to sell them. >> And you could probably buy what you want. Maybe in cash. I don't >> get rid of both of them.

>> Even if we just recently bought a side country home.

>> How? >> Okay. Why are you arguing with me? You called me up and said you didn't like it. >> No, I'm not. I >> know. But you're going, "Well, I just bought it." Well, I KNOW, BUT I DON'T LIKE IT. I made a bad decision. Unmake

the decision.

>> Okay. >> You didn't get married. You bought real estate.

>> Okay. Thank you so much, Dave. >> Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to get rid of the married thing if you do that one wrong.

But the real estate one, you just put it up for sale. >> It's more simple than you think, I think. >> Yeah. Well, it it's just I mean, you may lose a little money.

I Okay, we we made a bad decision. Some something about our vision for life was >> a skew. Yeah. And uh so we may pay some tax for that.

>> Stupid tax. >> We may pay some stupid tax for that. That's okay. It's okay.

I've done dumber things than that. Then thought I wanted something that I didn't didn't. And um but I I tell you what is interesting to do, Aaron, in these situations than anybody else. I've done it a lot to myself.

>> When I find myself in a situation like that called a mistake, >> that's a mistake.

malfunction that allowed the mistake?

What decisionmaking framework was I using that was flawed that caused me to, >> you know, uh, okay, I was looking at Instagram people on Homestead. Well, don't you know, okay, I've just figured it out. I don't need to be looking at Instagram to do anything >> that that it has quality in life, >> right? uh you know uh and and so what what was it that caused me to get a skew

of what reality was and and so that I don't do it again. >> Well, then it becomes research, not just something stupid you did. >> It was an experiment. >> It was an experiment. >> I found something that didn't work.

>> That's right. >> Like a test tube when I blew up the lab.

Yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah.

>> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. But in the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 250. You Can Rebuild No Matter Where You Are | October 27, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in [music] the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel, taking calls about your life and your money all hour long and even

longer. So, if you want to get involved, numbers88255225.

That's how you do it. All right. Amy is in Canada. Hey, Amy. How can we help you out today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, so my question is um how to navigate

parents giving uh lots of gifts uh

knowing uh it's from debt and it u makes

us feel anxious. So, um um yeah, I guess

just wondering, is it okay to say no to my parents spending money on our family?

>> Well, yeah, of course you can always say no. I mean, you don't have to accept it, but I I kind of want to get juicy. I want to know more about what type of >> what kind of gifts >> gifts these are. >> How much are they spending? How long has this been going on?

>> Yeah. So, um they uh so they'll spend

upwards of two grand per child. So, uh,

four kids, multiple grandchildren, um,

uh, for Christmas, um, and even for birthdays, we're, uh, they always want to take us out for dinner. They always have points to upgrade their flights or our flights or fly us across country.

Wow. Um, and we know uh that so they're

empty neester hoarders and uh they have

I don't know how much debt they're in, but I know they have a few ATVs, a trailer, a fifth wheel, a boat, a vacation home, and we know that none of those are paid off. Maybe just a couple of the ATVs. >> Do they have any Cuz some people live a

lifestyle where it's like, I have a bunch of debt over here, but I also have a bunch of assets over here, and I just play that game. Are do they have a bunch of assets somewhere or do they not have enough to retire?

>> They No, they they keep like talking about how they need to keep pushing.

They're uh like 60 and they need to keep pushing back their retirement. They still like have a home that's not paid off. >> Got it. >> How much have they shared with you regarding their financial problems?

>> Uh my dad has shared a decent amount. uh

he was like not aware of the finances in

their home until maybe five years ago.

Um but then once the mom found out then

he kind of has stopped sharing as much but he had no idea how much debt they were in. Um and so it the whole situation just feels irky and then it's how to protect our family but knowing that we can't advise them but we don't we don't know how to just say stop spending money on us. Well, I don't know that you can tell them or make them change their behavior large scale. I

think that if it makes you feel icky to take a gift, you can easily say no. Um,

and I think that that's probably more what this call is about. So, if they say, "Hey everybody, we're all we're loading up the family and we're going to Bora Bora and we're paying for everybody." You can say, "Oh, well, me and Steve, we'll pay for our own ticket." You know, that's that's fine.

>> Yeah. Are they pretty aggressive with it?

Yeah. And we've tried to put some boundaries in place and they will just show up. And if we say no to a vacation,

I mean, we can't afford to pay our way, then it's it's like very dramatic and [laughter] they kind of >> So, wait a minute. So, when you put boundaries in your life of we can't afford that, then that irks them.

>> Of course, [laughter] >> why would we not go in debt to go on a family vacation? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you you think you have a better relationship with your father to have a serious conversation with him and go, "Hey, based on what you've told me, there's a lot going on here financially and it feels like you guys covering all of our expenses is only hurting that and we just don't want to be a part of making this problem worse." How would he respond to that?

>> Yeah, I think I think he probably would respond well. I just I don't know how much control he has over the actual >> So it's mom that is the out of control addictive spender.

>> Yeah, I would say so.

>> Well, that might be a conversation he needs to have with her.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> If he has the the place of authority in the relationship versus you, then it's going to need to be him convincing her that, hey, that we're in a bad situation and if we ever want to retire one day, we need to start cleaning this mess up.

And it starts with not being overly generous when we really can't afford to be. And you know what? I'm think I'm really thinking about this because um I I also

think if you can approach this I'm kind of thinking about it in the way of how we talk about college and how we should set expectations about parents paying for college. I'm kind of thinking that same thing. I think you need to go because I'm always about keeping the ball in your court, right? What's Amy doing?

What's your life about? What are your boundaries? Cuz you can't really control them. So, I might have a conversation with dad and mom and say, "Hey, I would like to set some expectations um on my end >> regarding your retirement." And I would just let them know, I'd say, "Hey, I want you guys to know upfront.

I don't know what your plans are, but I want you to know I keep calling your husband Steve. I don't know what his name is, but I just want you to know Steve Steve and I are not going to be able to contribute to your retirement. So, I just want you to know that upfront. I want to tell you that early and often so that there's no expectation that we would be able to help you out financially in any way.

I don't know what your expectations were, but I just want to let you know this is where we're at. And that way >> when the time comes, cuz like I said, you can't change your mom, can't change your dad.

But that way if the time comes, >> they know don't come knocking on your door [laughter] for extra money uh in

retirement. And so that's one thing that you could do. And that alone might get their wheels turning on why would she say that? I wonder if she's concerned.

Should we be concerned? So sometimes just putting your boundaries in place is enough to get the other person thinking about um their own situation.

>> Yeah, that's good. I like that.

>> And then the other piece of this is you may not be able to change them. you may not be able to stop them. And I have family members like that, too, where they just love to be generous. And so, I realized, you know what?

I'm going to let go. If they want to spoil the the grandkid or the niece, then that's what they're going to do. >> And, you know, I'm more like, I don't want more crap in my house. So, don't get us physical things I have to then store and keep around.

Uh, but other than that, there's just a piece of it where you go, this isn't my life. This isn't my finances, and I might have to deal with a fallout later.

We're not going to cover you if you guys retire broke. You're not going to move in with us and we're going to cover all your bills. So, get your crap together now because we're not the plan. We are not your retirement plan.

>> I love that. And you're approaching it from your side as opposed to pointing at them saying you're not doing this and you're not doing this. It just kind of takes the heat off. Uh but those types of questions, George, they're always so tough because you love the person.

You don't want to see them fall. You don't want to see them fail. It kind of reminds me, we have a c a question from Facebook from Kristen, very similar.

So, what do you do?

>> Oh my goodness. I mean, you have a really hard conversation. That's what I've done is just say, "Hey, listen. We can't fit any more stuff in the house.

If you want to do something, contribute to her 529 plan, but please, every time you come over, you don't need to bring more cars and toys and things that I have to then deal with." >> I know. That's right. go give to Goodwill of 6 months from now.

>> Yeah, I I do that. You know, around Christmas time, I had to say that to my own grandparents uh for of my kids. I was like, listen, you guys need to cool out. Number one, they can't intake it all.

Like, it's too much on them. It's like >> stimulation overload. So, I'm like, one thing, and please, for the love of God, can it just be one or two pieces? this business that has like a 100 pieces and you got to have a box to keep it all in and now I got to go buy Tupperware [music] storage to hold all >> I got to assemble it like IKEA furniture all weekend.

>> Please, no more. >> I love you parents and grandparents, but you got to chill out. >> You got to chill out. Public service announcement.

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and [clears throat] they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

All right, back to the phone [music] lines. We've got Mike who's in Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plane. You weren't expecting that.

What's up, Mike?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, so

about well, a few months ago in July, I got laid off and I'm 45. I've been in

the oil field my whole life. I don't know anything else. I'm having a hard time finding another career.

And my question is, what do I do with my 401k? Should I roll it over into my IRA to have more freedom

with that money or would that be a mistake? >> Well, it is smart to roll it over, but what do you mean when you say to have more freedom with that money because we don't want you unplugging the investment?

Well, I don't want to do that either, but um right now I'm under the umbrella of my former employees plan, so I'm limited to what I can do with it if I

had to touch it, god forbid, >> you know, I'd be penalized and all that.

And and I don't know if for tax purposes

if it would be smarter to roll it over, would I be paying taxes on that right away or would that >> No, the the way to avoid all of this is a direct rollover. So, you never actually withdraw the money. it just straight gets transferred. So, is it a traditional 401k?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you'd want to do a direct rollover to a traditional IRA.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And that uh you know, I use a SmartB Pro for that. If you want to jump on ramiesolutions.com, get connected with one. They they helped me with this and made it super simple to get all the right forms done, make sure the money gets moved without any issue or tax penalties, all of that. But I think it's a great idea to get to move it from the old employer because you're paying fees.

You have no control over it and you do have more control over the investments once it's in an IRA because now you're not beholdened to whatever you know HR picked the 14 funds. You have access to

thousands. And so I would stick to good growth stock mutual funds, but at least you'll have all the options in the world once it's over in that IRA.

>> So what about the job hunt? Um so you've been in oil all your life. Are you open

to doing something different? What do you think? If you were to say, Jade, here's the problem. What do you think the problem is?

>> That's a good question. I haven't a bad interview. Is it I'm just not even getting into the interview? Is it >> Well, the opportunity is the oil field's all I know. And it what I've learned in the last 20 years doesn't really translate to anything else. Well, I mean, would you consider the oil field a skilled trade?

>> Yeah. >> Did you work on equipment?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I mean, you just you just gave us your resume right there. You know how to use heavy equipment, right?

>> Were you on the like maintenance side? Were you operating it? >> Maintenance. Yeah. >> Okay. So, now we know you have a very clear field. Industrial maintenance is a great field for you. And so, I know it's scary because you go, "Well, if it's not oil, I don't know what I'm doing." But the truth is you know a whole lot about what you're doing. It's just applying it to a new field, >> right? >> So have you actually looked into industrial maintenance tech type jobs?

Like whatever your title was, take the word oil out and then pop that into Google and see what kind of roles come up. See what kind of experience they're looking for and then start applying with confidence saying, "Hey, I worked in the oil field for this long. I'm bringing this much experience. I think I can really serve you guys in this way." >> Yeah, I think George is right. I think uh I think you're capable of a lot more than what you really realize. Uh all those skills are transferable and we see

it. George and I see it. Um if you were employed this long, it means that you have value that you're able to add. So I really think it's more of a a mental shift that you've got to have that you have something to offer. And like George said, going in there with confidence, not I probably won't get it because it's not oil, you know. I think you have to really work on that mindset. Before we get off the line, we'll give you a couple of resources from Ken Coleman.

We'll give you find the work you're wired to do. We'll give you From Paycheck to Purpose. And I think that's really going to inspire you. Um, like

Ken would say, to do the work you're wired >> to. How are you covering your bills right now?

>> Uh, I got some money saved up.

>> How much is left?

>> Uh, about five six thousand probably.

>> Okay. So, it's running out pretty quick.

like in the next month or two. >> Mhm. >> Correct. >> Are you single?

>> Yes. >> Have you done any anything for income since July? Side jobs?

>> No. Uh-uh. >> So, what stopped you from doing that?

Because, you know, a lot of times you do have to do some sort of work in the in between. Any job is good until you get the job. So, what's stopping you from, you know, hitting up one of these, you know, order delivery places and and filling some time there or going over to FedEx or, you know, >> any kind of retail work, >> just something to avoid you depleting your savings to nothing. And then the next step is, well, I guess I got to go into debt, right? Do you have any debt right now?

>> Just my house. >> Okay, >> good. Good. Yeah, I'm worried about that because the from the very beginning when you called in, it sounded like I think that somewhere in your mind the plan is when this $56,000 runs out, I'll be able to get my hands on that IRA and then I'll use that.

I think that's living in your mind as your next option. And I want to eliminate that option completely off the table.

you know, month's income off of your savings. So, what does that look like? I want you I want to hear you brainstorm that. What does that look like for you over the weekend and over the next week?

What do you think that you could start with?

Um, I am on a job hunt already. I

haven't had any luck yet, like I said.

But, um, >> I understand for the major jobs. I'm talking about for the the minors.

>> What could you pick up that's just you filling that gap until you get the big

job?

>> I don't know. I haven't really thought about it like that. Yeah, that's and I think that's what you need because um when you do that, Mike, it's going to help with what I'm hearing right now, which is a lack of confidence. When you get any job, it's going to help you.

It's going to give you something to do every morning. It's going to cause you to get up, you know, get out of the sweatpants and go do something. And then it gives you something to say, "Today, I'm going to do my best at this." And that does something for us internally.

We're created to work and we're created to do, you know, use our talents. And when you have a long stretch, when you're not able to do that in any capacity, it does it starts to wear on your emotions. It starts to wear on your your self-worth, all of that. And I can hear that in your voice. And you're too talented for that to happen. So that's

that's almost as important as getting a

couple bucks in the door, right? Is just keeping your skills up, keeping your talent up, keeping your emotions, and your confidence up. Uh because you are going to find another job. But what I don't want is for you to go in there and because you haven't uh utilized your skills in eight months, you know, I don't want you to be feeling less than or overly eager at the interview because

all that shows too. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Calm, cool, confident. So, I would start looking. What kind of jobs have you applied to?

>> Um, I have applied to some of the

industrial maintenance type jobs, but you know, I'm doing it online.

If you don't hear nothing back, it's not like the old days, you know, when you go put a paper application in and go talk to face to face. >> Well, do you know people in the industry and you let them know, hey, I'm looking for these types of roles. If you know something, hit me up.

>> Not really. I try to >> I would be contacting everybody adjacent to the industrial maintenance oil world and just see what's available. Even if it's not the ideal thing, at least something for now to get your foot in the door. and then they go, "Oh my gosh, you're way too qualif. We got to get you in a different role where you can really use your skills." So that's the goal.

That's what I would be doing if I was in your shoes and I know nothing about this field. You are far more talented than me. So, um, I know you got it in you.

And I think right now just, you know, applying online and hoping for the best is not going to do it. You got to be out there. You got to be texting people, meeting with people, talking to people, drumming up business, going, I need to be top of mind when someone has that open role. And, uh, Ken's books will help do that.

I'm going to send you the proximity principle as well. This is the Ken Coleman package right here. It is everything we got, we're going to throw it at you. >> So, two pieces of homework.

You know, obviously the the resources we give you are going to help you, but if you don't do anything else. Number one is, yeah, get on Uber Eats, get on Door Dash, something that you can just get out there, make a little bit of money. I mean, it's not going to bring it's not going to replace your income, but it'll do something. And [music] that's going to be so important for you.

that you've done or knows somebody who's done the job or has done something adjacent to the [music] job. Make a list. I want you to come up with at least 15 names. And then I want you to hit the phones and I want you to call them. Don't text them. Call them up and have a conversation with them. >> This is a sales job and today you are selling [music] Mike. That's the goal.

>> [music]

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[music]

Well, if you've been listening to this show and you like what you hear, or maybe you watch on YouTube and you like what you see and you like what you hear, uh, be sure to let us know and let the people know. Uh, share the show if you can. Uh, like the show if you can, subscribe to the show if you can. All of that is so important.

>> I believe in you guys. >> I believe in you. It's easy to do these days. It is easy.

it to somebody. It's a great way to share the content, help change some lives, and it helps us out a little bit too, George. So, >> yeah. What a weird emoji that like why in a paper airplane were a kid? >> Oh, like send notes to people in class.

>> Well, I didn't do that. I would just hand them over. But >> that's what I'm saying. Like nobody used a paper airplane to like send messages.

>> That's a good point. I don't know. Maybe it's like >> I digress. Maybe it's a Federal Express reference. >> Who even says Federal Express? You're really showing your age. >> I'm talking about from Castaway.

>> Oh, okay. I was like, do people call FedEx Federal Express?

>> It's a very loose connection here.

>> You're secretly a boomer. Reveal [laughter] yourself.

>> Oh boy. Let's go to Nathan who's in West Virginia. What's going on, Nathan?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Of course. What's going on?

>> Okay. Well, let me tell you my situation, then I'll see my question. if you guys have any financial solutions that I that I'm not thinking of. So, I have an aunt who's 80 almost 89 years old and about 15 months ago I got added to her checking account. I handle all of her finances, make sure all of her bills were paid and up until July everything was going good. So, her her total income is about 2,200 a month and I'm going to

estimate that her bills including utilities, groceries, everything maybe 18 or 1900 a month. So, she doesn't have much left over but she did have enough to cover her her expenses. Well, then starting in July, starting in July, we're paying caregivers 247. So, I write

checks, you know, every week to caregivers, but you know, we're paying about 2400 a month just in caregiving expenses. So, the only way we've even been able to pay for it, we've been selling assets. We've been selling her cars, >> but I'm estimating that she's that I'm estimating she's going to run completely out of money probably in April or May.

So, I'd been thinking, well, what other options can I do? And her house is all paid for. So, one option I had thought of was a reverse mortgage. Well, then I looked online. She lives in in a 1973

manufactured double wide mobile home online. It said you can't get a reverse mortgage if the mobile home was built before 1976 because that's when HUD started re >> That's fine. I don't want you to do that anyway. So, we can go to the next one.

>> So, then I thought, well, maybe home equity loan, but I called a couple places. But, you know, when you take her income of 2,200 against maybe 1,800 of

monthly expenses, but then add in 2400 of caregiving. So, now you're over 4,000 expenses against 2200 income. So, nobody's probably going to even, you know, loan money on her house when the debt. >> So, I can't think really really of any other option that she's going to run out of money in the next several months. >> How much is the house worth if you were to sell it? >> Um, I'm This is just a total estimate.

And again, it's a manufactured house.

I'm gonna say it does have about one and a half acres of land with it. It's out in the country. I'm going to just estimate maybe 60 or 70,000.

>> Okay. And then what about with the land?

Is that including the land with it?

>> Yeah. And that that's just a total guess on my part. We haven't had any appraisal, but >> And you said it's 2400

for care. And have you priced out what

if she had just like a single bedroomedroom apartment uh in West Virginia? What would that cost?

Um, I'm going to say it. I mean, it's going to depend on the area. I'm going to guess you could probably get something for a thousand.

>> A thousand. Okay. There might be a situation where you've got to move her and invest this nest egg and kind of draw off of it what you can. Is it just you or do you have siblings that are helping with this?

>> Well, I have a sibling, but I'm pretty much doing it. Yeah, my siblings not helping me. So, >> not much. a little bit. >> Would she qualify for Medicaid that would help cover the cost of caregiving?

>> Well, I had checked into that just very briefly on on the on the internet. It just said something out if if a single person made I think over I thought it said 900 and something a month, although that sounds kind of low, but she she makes more than that. Um I had also thought about calling in West Virginia.

I forget what it's called, but the there's a senior services number through the state. I thought about calling to see if there's any other options that I don't know about. my main options that I considered was the reverse mortgage or a home equity loan. >> Yeah, I I would rather you look into the care options than debt options.

I think what George is saying is that that's a better avenue for you to look into if there's Medicaid or if there's any sort of state program there in West Virginia that can help. Um and then the other thought is, yeah, trying to get your hands on some of this money.

>> Um pretty pretty good. We my uncle which is her brother thinks that she has dementia. We don't know for sure. She's taking a test, I guess, next month that will determine that.

Um, but other than that, I mean, she's had some brain cancer issues, but she's physically still gets around, still walks. Now, she quit driving probably about a year ago, but physically, she does pretty good for almost 89 years old, but >> well, I would have a game plan. Let's assume that she lives a a long life and goes to 99. Well, what's our 10-year plan to take care of this if nothing else changes and the expenses stay?

So that's I would be kind of planning for that worst case scenario of covering these expenses for a long time and that might mean you're pitching in to cover some of the gap.

>> Yeah, I I would be able to some and and I actually even considered getting a home equity loan. Um but then I and then

myself and I thought well but then if she ended up going nursing home and we lost the house there'd be no way to repay. >> Yeah, we can't do debt. I would just take debt off the table as an option. I would rather you sell her place and invest that 70,000 or even put it in a high yield savings account and utilize all of that money until that runs out which will get you pretty far. I mean that's years of of you know a few years of covering her expenses.

>> Mhm. Yeah. On on >> right >> that's I I I think today like I said you

chase down and see what Medicaid will do, what the state will do. Um, and there might be something that you can find there, but in the in the near term, you need money because you said this is going to run out soon. And that 70,000 invested, it's not a ton, but it'll give

you something. And if you can, you know, park it in an index fund and really only draw what you need. And if you and your brother or you and your other sibling can get together and kind of fill those holes, that's really all you've got right now.

And it's one of those things, you know, John would say, "Not by not by my hand, but in my lap." And this has just got set in your lap to deal with.

>> And it sucks.

>> Is there a scenario where she could move in with you or the sibling?

>> Um, I know even my even my mom and dad

had even offered before about her moving in with them. She didn't want to. And my uncle, which is her brother, I was thinking he may even said something, but she didn't act like she she's lived in the same house since 1973. She has But she doesn't have a choice. >> Yeah. Respectfully, she's she's uh between a rock and a hard place here.

So, she's not going to have the choice when she doesn't have the money to live.

>> And so, it's going to it's probably going to come down to that cuz either you pay for her rent or she lives with

family. >> I think those are the only options at this point >> if her social security is not going to cut it and you need to keep paying these caregivers. So, I would do my homework and uncover every stone to see what I can find out about getting her care that isn't 2,400 a month.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> There's no there's no easy answers here. The only easy thing to do would be go into debt. And that's a terrible terrible solution. >> Can you tell me when you said it's 1,900 for her bills? What are the What are that what's that $1,900 in bills? What is that? >> Well, she she has three loan payments.

So, one is 244 a month, one is 200, and then one is 100. And then the and then the rest of them are just her utilities.

Elect Well, >> food, electricity. Yeah. What are these loan payments?

One of them was for several years ago she'd got a one of those outside generators that if your power goes off that and then these were all most of these are bad. That was to a finance company. Her interest the interest rate on that loan is almost 26%.

>> What's the total balance of her debts?

>> Well well it's not too bad now because I've been trying to pay them down as much I can see. The total of all her debt combined is probably about 5400 a

little over 5,000. >> Okay. Yeah. I would try to clear that and get out of your life.

>> And if worse comes to worse, I'd cover her four walls before paying these bills and let it go to collections if need be.

>> Yeah. >> So, so and I have been trying to pay him down with extra about a year ago those three loans were about 14,000. Now they're down to about 5,000 and >> I might I might have a conversation with family and go, "Hey, can we all chip in and get rid of this debt?" Because that would really let her breathe a little bit with her current income and expenses. >> Yeah, >> that'll buy you guys some time. Yeah, that's that's the best you're going to be able to do with this. I th the guys

>> cautionary tale, man. This this is what it is. The time does come for all of us where we age and we get to the point where we can no longer work and we get to the point to where we need money coming in. So, please, please, please do not put off important things like paying off your debt.

Pay off your debt now when you're young and you can work extra and you can do all these things. Take advantage of compounding interest now when you can invest. invest 15% of your income.

>> Please do not rely on social security.

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[music]

[music]

[music] All right, everybody. Hip hip hooray.

The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. It can do everything.

There's a ton of advanced features to help make your progress with money even faster, even easier. As a matter of fact, the average person is finding thousands of dollars in just the first 15 minutes. So, if you're interested, which you should be, you can start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or as always on Google Play. All right. Mary's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Mary. what's going on in your world.

>> Hey there, thanks so much for taking my call. >> I I would love So, I just started really

binging all the podcasts and all the things. >> Awesome. >> Um, and yeah, and I am not a math lady

at at all. So, I would and I've done all my numbers. I have uh and I would love for you guys as math people to give me the Ramsy goal for those numbers as as

far as like a year or two years, however that that I can set um to get myself out

of debt. >> Well, you called the right person. You called George Cam because >> I'm ready. I got my calculator. I'm pushing my glasses up. I'm ready to [laughter] go. >> Oh, good. >> Okay. Lay it out for us. How much debt do you have? >> All right. I have about $60,000.

>> Okay. break it down.

>> Okay. It's in the Ramsay order. It's

about $316 in like a paying for situation. My bank from Chase. >> Oh man, that's

>> why now pay later.

>> Yeah. Yeah. They'll reimburse you into your account and you pay them back.

>> Then I have um 400 on one credit 450 on

one credit card 29,900 on the other credit card. I I do own my car, so no

car payment there. And then the rest of it is school debt. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. So, are those all broken out? >> $1,000.

There's $1,000 um that I found on my credit report that is in collections.

So, I was thinking of paying like 10 cents on the dollar or something for that. Uh but anyway, sorry. Go ahead.

>> $57,000 of student loan debt.

>> Yeah, that's about right. >> Okay. And what do you make?

45.

>> 45. What kind of work is that? What kind of work do you do?

>> I work as a print project manager at my

church. >> Okay. >> And have done so for many, many years.

>> Is print is like print your focus or is

ministry your focus? Like what's what's the thing you want to do most?

It's I believe in what my church says and I

when I started I have you know I have a history of emotional problems. They never fired me of all the problems that I'm sure I caused. So I have I have a deep loyalty. It's not really ministry as in I want to do ministry and no I

don't. I do not have a passion for print. >> I just asked so that we can get >> I just asked because we're going to be thinking of ways to get your income up and I wanted to know where your heart is. If your heart is I want to do something in helping people ministry like that related or if you're like I love print and digital work and all that kind of stuff.

>> I heard project manager and I went ding ding ding. We can make a lot of money in project management with your skill set if you're willing to look outside of the church for full-time work. Now you can still be heavily involved in your church. It just may not be full-time employment long term >> just because we're doing math and volunteer.

>> We're doing math. There's two factors here. George is going to walk you through one. But when we're looking at an equation like this, we say there's two major things we can do.

We can lower our expenses, right? And that's lowering our outgo every single month. It's stopping things like investing in our 401k. It's stopping uh too much withholding coming out of our check, right?

So, those are all ways that we're kind of lowering our expenses. And then the other side of it, uh Mary, is we've got to get more money coming in.

get more coming in. Um so let's talk about two timelines cuz as it is now George I mean >> yeah what can you actually put towards the debt per month right now? Can you put 500 or a thousand? Give us a number of what you can throw at the debt snowball.

Um, right. And actually the not math part of me is got to back up because I do have I make I have an I have acting

gigs that I do already and I've started door dashing. >> Great. >> So, I do have more numbers. It's just a you know, a little bit more, but >> but tell us this. After you've paid the minimums on all your all your bills, all your expenses, how much extra do you put on your smallest debt every month?

about 10 and

no wait wait wait wait okay so tell me one is 75 one is 25 one is 35 one is 75

that's how much >> so you're not you're not doing the snowball in that you're not making minimum payments on everything and then putting all extra money on one debt

>> I >> cuz that's what you need to be doing >> any extra money on on the smallest debt yet because I just started the binge. I just started this. >> Got it. Okay. But currently with your income, you can't put any extra toward it. It's just barely covering your bills with your income. >> Yeah, basically. >> Okay.

Would be >> So, think about it this way. If you continue at the church full-time and you get a little bit of extra money, you'd be lucky to get out of debt in six, seven years. >> Is that accurate?

>> I mean, I'm asking you. >> Well, I mean, think about it. If you put a,000 a month would take you 60 months.

That's five years. if you were able to do a thousand months total toward your debts. >> So think about this. If you did 500, it's going to take double the amount of time. Talking 10 years.

>> And so based on what you're doing, it's over a decade. And so that's where I want you to have the urgency of >> I need to get my income up yesterday, like double my income. And so that's where you you need to get a project management job that pays 60 or 70 and do the side work and then we can clean this up within a year or two.

>> Okay. The good news is the good news is you know how to live off of 40 $45,000 a

year gross. So anything you get if you

can double that knowing that you can live on such a fringe like shoestring budget is so good for you. And I want to flip that uh so that you feel motivated by that and not kind of like overwhelmed by that. If you can double your income uh by finding a a higher paying job and adding a side hustle, which I believe you can. And I believe you can get to 80 quickly, >> right?

>> Um that means all of a sudden I'm doing this in a year and a half.

time frame that you were on before.

>> Yeah. >> So here's your nerd napkin math. If you can throw 2,000 total at your debts, you're done with this thing in two and a half years.

>> Okay? >> If you can throw 2500 at it, you're done in two years. And so you can see the math, it sort of just kind of contracts and expands as you're able to throw more at it. So, the more margin we create, the faster you're done and the faster you can get to the more fun parts of life, like building wealth, having breathing room, going on vacation, upgrading the car and cash, all that good stuff.

Well, I have my numbers now and my goals and

um I mean that's going to be my my job to work all that out. >> That's right. Project management buzz word. We told you, hey, get more money.

And so now you have the hard job of actually going to do all that, but I have full confidence. You start applying to project management roles and your skills are going to transfer perfectly.

>> And so I would sharpen up that resume.

And this is not a knock at your church.

I'm sure it's wonderful, but right now you're in you're in a different season. >> Yeah. And they're probably limited in what they could pay you, you know, and you need to get out there. >> And they don't believe in debt >> either. So, you know. >> Okay. There you go. You know, I love it.

>> I mean, very they're wonderful.

Wonderful. >> Actually, >> it was great to have that opportunity.

>> Beyond Dave Ramsey.

>> That's fantastic. >> That's fantastic. >> You know what? I'm going to send you every dollar as our gift to you to help you put all these numbers out. It's like George in your pocket doing the math, giving you recommendations 247, encouraging you based on your personal situation. So hang on. >> Can it be Jade in the pocket, too?

>> Yeah, but [laughter] just let me just let me have my fun. >> Better at math than >> I fit better in pockets. That's just the truth. >> Pocket sized.

>> Yeah, I'm a little guy. It's one of my only spiritual gifts is fitting in pockets. >> My gosh. But honestly, guys, uh let's talk seriously about Every Dollar.

If you don't have it or maybe you've tried it before, uh you need to get into the allnew Every Dollar. It has changed so much, George, over the past, I mean, even just 6 to 8 months. It's completely new. It's got everything you need.

It's not just a budgeting app anymore. Has everything you need to walk the Ramsay plan the Ramsay way? So, I I know there's plenty of times where you're looking, you're like, "What do I do next? I've just paid off my debt.

What am I supposed to do? Is it 3 months or is it 6 months of expenses? Why is it three versus six?" all those questions that you have. All you have to do is load in your information and do that onboarding and it is going to walk with you step by step so that you can accomplish your goals faster.

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>> All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio continuing to take calls about your life and money. George Camel is still next to me. >> Can't stop, won't stop. >> Can't stop it. I'm Jade Warshaw. Going straight to the phone lines, George, where we have Shelby in Missouri. Hey, Shelby. What's going on today?

>> Hey, I am just I just had some

questions. I'm struggling, but um so

I've been trying to follow the baby steps program. Um you know, save thousands and or thousand and then pay off, you know, the debts you have by the shortest or the like the least amount, you know. Mhm. >> Um, I just turned 18 in August and I've been with my fiance for almost 2 years.

Um, and I have a lot of debt to pay off already and I'm not sure how to do it

and how to get my fiance on board. Um,

he seems to think he can't save any

money until all his debt is paid off.

Um, I think it's just the mindset he's in. But >> you said he can't save any money until all his debt is paid off. So, he's not wanting to do baby step one, which is save $1,000. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Right. And >> how much debt does he have? >> Living he has about $2,169.

>> Okay. And what how much do you have?

>> Um 26,318.

>> What kind of debt is that?

mainly my car. Um, I was getting ready

to graduate in May and I had a piece of

junk car and it had gotten me through

and I was going to travel to um, De

Moine which was like an hour and a half from where we were living and my car would not make it that far. So, my mom, we went to a Nissan dealer >> and she signed on a car for me that I am making the payments of, but since I was not 18 at the time, >> it is in her name. >> It's completely in her name. So, she took all the risk and you're making like Venmo payments to her to then cover the payment.

>> Well, it the account I made the account

that it automatically comes out of my checking. How much do you pay every month for the car? Or how do how much do you pay every month for it?

>> Um, I think it's 14 or 417, but I round

up to 420 every month.

>> Okay. So, >> and since I'm 18, my insurance is out of whack. >> How much money do you earn? What's your monthly income? Just you?

>> Just me, it was about 1,800.

Why did you say past tense?

>> We we moved closer to my fiance's work. He was spending $250 in gas every two weeks. And >> um we moved. He's now 10 minutes away.

Brian currently unemployed. I'm going stir crazy because I want to work, but

we're in such a small town. There's >> nowhere really around. Um, I've applied at jobs called to check status in my

application. >> Work from home call service.

>> Yep. I applied for >> What is he doing for work? >> Customer service rep.

>> He works at um a hog barn.

>> Okay. What does he make?

>> 1950 an hour. >> What does that amount to every month?

What does he take home >> every month? For him, um 2,600.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And then together it was like 4,200. So we were doing pretty good. But >> And you guys have have you combined finances?

>> No. No. Okay. >> Are you living together?

>> Yes, we are. >> Okay. Um how much is rent?

>> Office apartment. It is um 650.

Utilities are 225 no matter what. >> Okay. Um >> um so I you called for one thing, but I

have to I can't just, you know, move past something like you didn't say what you just said. So you're you're very exposed um right now, Shelby. You're

because you don't work. So you're right now depending on someone to take care of you. You essentially you're in a house that another person's paying for. You have a a car that's not in your name. um

that [clears throat] at any point somebody could say, "You know what?

>> Uh say again, >> it's just very overwhelming." >> It is. And so I want to get you I want you to be in a safer space for you, especially at 18. Um [clears throat] I want you to be in a position where you can work. When When's the wedding?

>> Um we were planning on just us two going

maybe next year. just going to Vegas or

Hawaii or whatever. >> You can't afford to go to Vegas or Hawaii. Um, and why I I'm going to hit you with I'm hitting you with a lot of questions. What would be the point in waiting so long

versus getting going to the courthouse?

If you if you've been this has been your fiance for two years, >> everything has been a rush. I rush to move with my fiance, a rush to move across the country with this guy, and now we're going to take our sweet time with the wedding. >> What's your family say? Yeah.

>> What's your family saying? >> Um, I know my stepdad make made a joke of like, "Go to the courthouse. It's free on Thursdays." I'm like, "I'm okay with that." >> Okay. >> But I think my fiance wants to do something like experience something new for the both of us >> and all your family.

>> He's about to experience living in the hog barn if you guys don't take care of business here. I mean, you're you're still like children. >> Mhm. I just >> But we're living like adults too fast, too soon.

that is not in your name and you can't even make the payment. So, I would have a lot of urgency number one to get rid of this car. You do not need a $26,000 car in a town that doesn't even have a stoplight. >> Mhm. You can't you can't keep the car.

And my biggest thing, I asked about your

family because I want to know, is everybody on board with you getting married? If they are, the people that love you and trust that you trust, if they're saying, "Hey, we like this guy.

We're wondering when you're getting married. I then I am too. And I I would say get it done sooner than later so that you can protect yourself because what happens here uh Shelby, if this goes bad, George and I get the calls all the time. So, and it leaves you on the line to dry because there's no legality protecting you in any way.

So, if this guy loves you, let's go ahead and let's go ahead and let's go ahead and get married and then in a year from now, you guys can have a great trip in Hawaii or Las Vegas if you can afford it. Pay cash.

building blocks of getting this foundation a lot more firm than it is right now. And that starts with you guys solidifying a union there, getting married. That way, legally, it's cool for you guys to go ahead and combine your finances. Everybody's way more protected that way.

>> Then the next thing thing too is now I can go get a job and I can feel good about bringing this check home and us together paying off our debt and walking

through those steps. So that's that's thing the two things that you need to sit down and talk with uh I don't know your fiance's name Trent with talk with Trent tonight about that. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And the other piece of this is he's saying he can't afford to cover his $2,000 in debt. Is that right?

>> No, he we're kind of tackling it together. >> You said your finances are separate together with what money? You you don't have a job.

Right. So, I had some money in my checking account and he had a credit card payment that was coming up because when we got paid >> Why would you pay someone else's debt when you're not married to them?

>> He was paying the car payment.

>> So, you guys were just debt swapping.

>> No, I I don't know. Like I think another problem is like when we when we were bringing in like the 4,200 every month is when stuff comes out during the month. It's not a money problem. It's >> Shelby. It's not You're right. It's not a money problem. The The problem is you guys love each other. I get it. But you have you you both have it twisted.

You're getting everything out of order and it's getting real tangled up and really confused. [music] Do the two things I said. You need to get married and you need to get a job.

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and back to Daniel who's in Rhode Island. What's up Daniel? How can we help today?

Hi guys, how are you doing?

>> We're great.

>> That's awesome. So, um, the short

version of my question is, how do I know

if making a huge career change is the

best thing for mine and my family's future? >> Yeah. >> And then I'll go ahead and give you the backstory. So, I am in the final stages

of the hiring process for what is essentially my dream job. Um, it's something that I've always felt like I wanted to do. Uh, pay-wise, it would be

basically paying me the same as what I'm currently making starting off, but there is definitely a huge potential for

raises and growth within the first few years. However, the big question mark

for me and my wife is that it would also

require us to relocate to a major city in the Northeast, probably either New York or Boston. Um,

I like my current job. I'm not positive

though that it's something that I will be passionate about in the long term.

Um, however, my boss and I have

developed a really, really good relationship and she's basically told me, um, that

should I choose to remain working with them that she would like to groom me to

take over her position within the next few years? >> Um, is that your dream job to take hers?

>> No, it is not. >> Then I think it's the wrong next move.

[snorts] >> It's cool. Well, I mean, it's nice to be I mean, it feels good. You're flattered like there's room for growth here. I like it. They're treating me well. But at the end of the day, it's going to there's a soul tax to be paid knowing there's this other thing over here that you want to experience. And so, I don't think either of them are bad, but I think you're not going to regret taking this new leap. And here's the good news.

Nothing is fatal. Let's say you move to Boston, you take the next gig, you do it for a year or two, and you realize, well, I guess my dream job, this ain't it either, or I want to do this job, but it's somewhere else. you have the freedom to to make that jump, too.

>> Let me let me add another layer into it.

I'll probably be devil's advocate here.

Um, so tell us about your family. How old are your kids? Tell us about your community. Tell us on that side of things. >> Yeah. So, that is kind of like the thing that makes it complicated for me because I know myself and I know that like if I was single and everything like I already

know the choice that I would make, but you'd be gone. I am recent I am recently married. My wife and I um are wanting to

have kids within the next few years and we have a really really good support system where we currently live. My wife

is also really well established in her

job right now and is probably going to get promoted within the next year if she stays there as well. So that's really where the big question mark comes into play for me is like >> and her job won't transition. She can't stick with the company and she can't find something related in the new city that pays. >> She could find something related, but I think that it would it would be a lot more of a headache and I think that it would just like set her back more in her career than where she currently wants where where she's currently projecting to go to.

I guess >> what does she say when you tell her about the opportunity? Is she like, "Honey, you have to take it." Or is she like, "Oh man, I mean, I want this for you, but it really is tough." What's her demeanor? more so the latter.

commit it to me if it is what I decide to do, >> but for the sake of her own preference, she has expressed that she would prefer to stay where we are. >> What about financially? Um, how are you guys doing? Do you need the money? Tell us about that. Are you in debt and this would really, you know, push you forward? Tell us more about that part.

Yeah. So, it's really hard to say

truthfully. Um, I think that it would

increase our cost of living definitely were we to relocate. But I do think that this new job also brings the opportunity to earn additional income because there

are payraises that are basically guaranteed over the first couple of years and it's also gives me the opportunity to earn overtime as well in this new field. So, >> and is this like a once in a-lifetime opportunity? Is this dream job still going to be there two years from now?

>> Um, really hard to say. So, it's a government job. I'll I'll say that now.

Um, so it really is kind of dependent on what like the political atmosphere is and everything whether or not it sticks around. >> Interesting. you know, I I I

will tell you as a person who's moved across the country for a job. Um, it it

is all these things weigh heavily on your decision. And what I can tell you as your friend is both you and your wife need to have peace about it. That's thing number one. Like money and all that stuff aside, once you do feel like you've landed on something, both people need to feel like, okay, like peace

about it. And I mean, I don't know. I I'm just talking to you like a friend right now. I'm I'm the type of person I would pray the prayer.

I'm like, "God, make it so clear." Like, make it like 90 I want a 9010 decision. I don't want a 50/50, right? 50/50 is like, "Well, I kind of feel like we could stay or we could go." I want to feel so overwhelmingly like this is what we're supposed to do. And so, that would be my prayer for you guys.

And that would be what I if I were you, I' I'd sit down with your wife and say, "This is what we need to be praying about." That we feel so overwhelmingly peaceful about whatever direction we choose. and that we both feel it and we both, you know, have that that piece about it.

thing since that's what you called about. I, you know, at first I was more

like, oh yeah, this dream job feels it, but then what you what you were saying about the political climate did kind of I had a little pause there. I also wondered about you said the pay was going to be the same, but you're moving to a major city. So, I do wonder about lifestyle for you and with kids, I wonder what that looks like. Is this a job where you would be kind of like in the city or would you be far on the outskirts?

Those are some questions that I have.

That's something to play into the mix as well.

>> Yeah. Um, I I believe that the requirement is that we just have to live within the general area of where I'll be

located, where my office and everything was in located. So, we wouldn't have to live like necessarily in the city.

Exactly. But, you know, sort of regardless, it would definitely be like a more expensive area for us. Um,

>> yeah, that's something to think about.

>> Yeah. >> Your your your income has to go a lot further in cities like, you know, DC or where, you know, Philly, wherever you're going to be. Um, >> would they cover moving costs, relocation costs?

>> They would. Yes. >> That's a nice bonus. Mhm. That is >> I will say this, it's going to be easier while you guys don't have kids than once you do have kids to make a dream job type move to a different city.

>> So, I'm still in the boat and I'm not Mr., you know, like let's do it, adventure time. But this just feels like we'll figure it out. We'll figure out her job. If this really is the job for you that you really want and it does have room to grow, I'm going to say let's say yes to this adventure.

And later on, if we're like, "Hey, this is not an environment we can raise kids. We need to move further out. we need to switch careers.

>> So, I don't think we can just tell you.

I mean, I think the the flags are there for you to go make the move or to stay.

So, it's not like it's we're swayed one way or the other. That's such a personal decision like Jade said that you guys both need to have peace about. So, I would continue to I don't know if you guys are people of faith. I'd be praying about it. I'd make sure that my wife was in agreement on whatever we decide to do and then let's just do it >> and not look back and say what if what if we had stayed. >> Don't be a pillar of salt. Don't do that. Either way, you go you go.

>> You're going to have the like what if scenario. Well, what if I didn't take it and what if I did take it? And so that's the part you have to just let go of and go, this is where I'm at. I'm going to do my best to make this a great season.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, you know, if for your wife, part of part of change, I think that makes it so difficult is we're not we're just

looking at the negative side of it. But if she can start to get excited, that makes change a lot more fun. So if she starts looking at jobs in that area or if she can start to see opportunity in that area and start to generate some excitement, that also can help um if you

are trying to sway her over to your direction. Excitement is the name of the game. That's what we told our kids when we came to Tennessee. It was like an adventure. Like we're going on an adventure. So [music] anyway, help.

>> Good luck to you. >> Whatever you do, you're going to be okay. That's how I feel. >> You'll be all right. You can always You can always go back. [music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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[music]

All righty. Back to the phone lines we go. We got L who's in Idaho. What's going on, L? How can we help today?

Um, well, I'm just trying to navigate

what the right next step is. Um, I guess my main question would be, what do I do about a vehicle that's worth about $4,000 that I owe nine on and needs a

$5,000 repair? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm like, >> I can't begin to explain how how far

underwater I am.

>> I'm sorry.

[sighs] All right. I hope you took a deep breath there with me. Um, I know. Anything else

besides the car that's eaten your lunch?

>> Oh, sure. Um, about $19,000 in credit

card debt and I have a house that's tied

up in a divorce and um, it's

I can't get it to sell because it needs repairs and it's not in great shape and we can't seem to communicate. So everything's through lawyers at this point, which makes everything super complicated. So the total debt with

everything is $212,000.

$441. $212,441.

and when I'm looking for things to cut out because I'm like, well, I've got to

figure it out because um if I pay all

the minimums of everything, I'm $65 in the negative >> and that's no groceries, no gas, that's

>> mortgage, a car payment that I'm paying on that doesn't run. I'm borrowing a vehicle. I mean, [clears throat] >> what's your income? multiple credit cards. My income is $4,133.

And that's a job that I work 35 hours a week at and child support. So, my next step was >> How much of the 4,000 is How much of the 4,000 is child support?

>> $1,333.

>> Okay. What type of work do you do?

>> Um, I'm a dental assistant.

>> A dental assistant. Okay. Um, what

you're making, so you said you're working 35 hours. Could you do the same work at an office where you can pull more hours and do maybe overtime hours?

>> No, not not where I'm located. There's not a whole lot of overtime hours and actually the office in my area actually pays higher um hourly wages than any other office in this area. I've definitely looked. >> Okay. Okay. Um

if you guys end up selling the house, does that help you clean up this debt and fix a lot of these problems?

>> Oh man. Um, yeah, in theory it

definitely would. Um, >> does he have the money to fix it up or is he broke?

>> No, he's broke and disabled. So,

I know it's just a mess. And >> are you working with a real estate agent? >> Yeah, >> I was, but our contract ended and because of like the turmoil and the drama, she didn't want to renew her contract with us. >> So, now I'm searching for a new one.

>> What type of work does the house need?

Like tell us about it. Is it a fixeruppper or is it like no one would buy this house? It's got major problems.

Tell us about it. >> Um I mean I begged him not to buy this

house. That's the type of house it is.

It needs major work. I mean >> like foundation repairs or the kitchen's ugly. There's a huge difference in that.

>> Like it can be old. We're not talking about like we're not talking about like paint and aesthetics. We're talking about like the foundation and the core of it. We moved in and my two daughters, who are 17 and 15 now, when we moved into the house 2 years ago, we discovered that the 1930 house didn't

have proper wiring or insulation. It was

cinder blocks on the other side of the paneling. So, we ripped them to the studs and redid everything. The basement, like if you go into the basement, the floor above you, you can see how it's like slanted. So, like the basement, we need to lift the like main

floor from the basement. We're talking like major like >> like whoever buys it is just going to destroy it and rebuild a new house on top. >> They're just getting the lot. Yeah.

>> I >> So, what could you sell it for as is?

>> Like, >> um I don't know. somebody offered us 225,000 which is technically more than we owe on the loan but because of the way the divorce decree is stated um we didn't have to accept that offer so he denied it. >> So this I guess my question is um all

that was in place before you bought the house and did you know that going in? So did you buy I guess what I'm asking is did you buy the house for a fair price when you bought it?

I bought the house for like a hundred and yeah, I mean like I don't I feel like it was a fair price based on sure like the value, but like did I know going into it the amount of repairs it was going to need? Yes and no. But at the time I mean >> you should look up the housing market in Sun Valley, Idaho. It'll blow your mind.

So we're just outside of that. We're an hour outside of that. So, the house would be considered >> reasonable based on that. But just the

amount of repairs and what needs to happen to the house is just like astronomical. >> Well, there's part of this where I go, hey, you bought the house, so somebody's going to buy it. Um, and it's not like all that was hidden from you. Um, and I'm not suggesting that you hide it from anybody else, but my point is somebody's going to look at this and go, I'm willing to do the repairs.

I want the property. I want to be close to Sun Valley, whatever that is. So, I would I think it is worth getting with a realtor um who's willing to take this on and can find the right buyer for you. I think that's going to help at least clear some of the confusion out of all this.

You might not take away much money from it is what it sounds. >> Yeah. Why didn't he take that offer >> being a knucklehead? >> Um >> did he want to just drag this out?

Like was it out of spite?

is the nicest way to say it. like he just he had to he just wants to I don't

know he just wants to control the situation and it's it's kind of messed

up because 30 days prior to that the house had been listed at a lower value and again if that offer had been given to us 30 days prior we would have had to take the offer no matter what because it was within 95% of the listing price which is what the divorce decree says.

So 30 days later, he and the realtor decided to increase the price and I just went along with it because I don't care.

I don't care what we sell the house for as long as we pay off the loan. I literally don't care if I make even a dime on it. I just >> We don't have the luxury of trying to get the We just need to get out of this so that you guys can both have some closure and stabilize your financial lives. So, I don't know if that means going back to the decree and getting a judge to to go, "Hey, if you get an offer above this, you have to take it." >> Yeah.

>> I have a lawyer who I'm not having to pay because I went through a special program. So, I have a lawyer that I'm working with that I'm meeting with on Monday that I already met with on Wednesday. >> Okay. So, you're on the path to doing that before the time runs out.

>> I'm trying. That's everything. I'm trying a car. >> Let's talk about it. Okay. Whose car are you borrowing now?

You said you were borrowing someone's car. Who who who helping you and how long are they going to have >> borrowing a car from a friend and I can't have access to that car at all times? >> Okay. Is your credit completely shot? If you went down to your credit union for a loan for the difference, would they give it to you?

>> Um I think my credit is probably shot.

It's probably like low sixes at this point. >> I would at least try and explain to the credit union, hey, I'm underwater on this car. I need the difference I'm underwater on plus a little bit to get a different car. and then you let go of that car. You might get $500 for it for parts at that point, >> but you do not need to be hanging on to this car because if you put 5,000 in repairs, you're still underwater on it and it's probably not worth $5,000 at that point.

>> It definitely is not. It's not worth it.

So, you need your goal is to just get the amount you're underwater on to clean the title and then get rid of it.

>> Yep. $5,000. That's what you need.

>> And that gets you some breathing. >> That's how I have the vehicle. then go to the same credit.

>> Tell them tell them you have bad collateral here. I am way underwater on this loan. I'm not going to be able to pay you back unless you give me a different loan to clear the uh to clear the title and get out of this underwater situation. >> Yeah, that's that's that's first on the list. And then number two is yeah, you got to get a I think if you can get out of that car, that's going to give you some breathing room. Obviously, now you're tasked with saving up some money.

You know, it's great that you have a friend loaning you a car, and I understand that it's inconvenient, but for the most part, it's a blessing more than it is inconvenient. >> It's a huge blessing. >> Yeah. So, get with her and say, "Here's my plan." Because, you know, she's doing you a solid.

So, here's my plan. I'm going to try to get this other car paid off. I'm going to need a little bit more time cuz I got to stack up like $4 or $5,000 so I can get myself a beater and try to get out of this cuz I don't know if the credit union is going to lend me money for that. Right.

>> And then selling the house, you can clear the credit card debt with the proceeds.

>> Yeah. Try to do something that you can work from home and do so you don't need the car. I would suggest customer service.

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>> All right. All right. So, buying or selling your house is a very, very big deal, okay? There's a lot of clickbait headlines out there. There's a lot of conflicting data out there, and it really is hard to know what's actually going on in the housing market. But don't worry, we're here to help you.

We've always got the latest trends, and we make it very easy for you to understand. Okay? So, for instance, median home prices dropped a bit last month. Now they're around 426,000.

Uh a typical season shift uh a typical

season shift as we head into the fall.

So that's normal. Also, buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. Uh so if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy and sell with confidence, we've got you covered. Just go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

So important. All right, George, let's keep it rolling with Bri in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Hey, Bri.

>> Hi. How are you? How are you doing?

>> We're doing great. How can George and I help?

>> Uh, so basically yesterday I had a talk

with my husband and he thinks that he want to change his job. Uh, he's right now assistant manager in a truck company. So, it's a big load of work and

stressful work talking with the truck drivers and mechanics, uh, towing trucks

and everything like that. >> Mh. >> And he thinks that we need to take a car

uh on credit and preferably on mine because my credit score is better than his. Um, and uh, it will be like Toyota

sedan so he can do Uber.

Oh, he wants to quit his salary job to

do Uber and take out a car loan to fund this quote unquote business.

>> Um, yeah.

>> Did I just sum that up? >> So, basically, he he's making right now

a week 1,800.

>> Mhm. >> And his friend at work told me told him that uh on Uber they can make like 2,000

and more a week.

>> Oh boy. >> So, that's why he's thinking about it.

No, I would not listen to this friend.

>> Especially Especially if you're thinking about going into debt for this.

>> Yeah. Here's what's going to happen. He's going to drive that car into ground and the depreciation is going to hit it so hard that you guys are going to be underwater on this car within the first week.

Do you guys have any debt now?

>> Yeah, we have like 40,000.

>> Oh, perfect. Well, let's just add to the pile then and pretend it doesn't exist.

>> Okay. >> What kind of debt? thinking to be honest, but like I don't know how to tell him that. He doesn't even know that I'm calling right now.

>> Um, >> what do you do for work, Bri?

>> Uh, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm having a baby one year and 9 months and also we having a baby on the way.

>> Wow, congrats. >> Okay. Okay. >> Thank you. So, >> so now is definitely not the time to put our income in flux.

>> Mhm. >> And rely on people who need rides downtown. It's like he need to stick to it like maybe ask maybe at work he can

do work or >> riddle me this. Why doesn't he on the side after work go out and drive with the car he has if he wants to try it out? >> He cannot because we have 20-year-old uh Lexus that doesn't have major issues

with the engine.

>> Okay. So >> so he cannot do it. >> Then then I I think that's a great indicator that this is not the job for you. There's a lot of jobs, um, Bri, and this might be the way you frame it to him. I don't know what kind of guy he is, but there's a lot of jobs that have prere prerequisites to be able to do it.

Like, if you want to be in the NBA, you got to be like 7 foot tall or you got to be able to shoot like Steph Curry. And if you don't have that, you can't do the job. [laughter] And in this case, if you need a brand new, you know, Lexus truck that you don't have, you can't do the job. And I think it's just as simple as that. you could go out and, you know, pull all these strings and pull all his debt to try to force this in, but that

there's no guarantee there. Okay? And so, I think that if he doesn't enjoy his job currently, that's fine. I'm all I'm all for him looking for different jobs that he enjoys more. But if I were in your shoes, I would say, "Honey, I want you to do work that you love, but we here's my my my boundaries. We can't go into debt for it. And if possible, I'd

like to wait until this baby is born so that we can have some solidity going through that and then once the baby is born, you know, go do your thing. Do you think he would listen?

>> I think he will. Um like I was trying to

think like logically is it a good idea

even to get a new car because like we were planning after a given birth of course we need more space

uh especially with a car. I don't have a car but >> yeah you definitely need a new to you car but that doesn't mean we're going to go into >> about the car. Yeah, you and you should be. You need a different car. But what you don't need is another $25,000 loan on top of your 40,000 in debt.

>> And so what I would do if I was in your shoes is go, "All right, we need to save up to get a reliable car >> and then we're going to clean up this 40 grand of debt and we're going to He's not going to be switching jobs. He's going to be working extra." >> Yeah. >> Cuz you guys make seven grand a month right now. >> Yeah.

Seven. Yeah. You guys have a fine income. >> And so how quickly can we pay off 40,000?

>> Do you guys have a budget?

>> Kind of. >> That's a no. >> I'm trying [laughter] to keep up but to be honest uh I don't know what is going on in his credit card because basically

>> uh all that we put on his credit card.

>> So this mine all of them.

>> This is a very Bri, you're helping. So thank you for calling in because you're helping so many people right now. You're right. when you're on credit cards and you know the spouse has a credit card in their wallet that's different from what the the the other spouse has in their wallet.

It does it makes it very hard to stick to a budget because unless that person is going to bank connect all their credit cards to the budget so you can see every transaction coming through. You're right. You have no idea what you're spending and it's very easy to overspend on credit cards so that at the end of the month if you plan on paying it off Yeah. You're spending up ev every bit of extra margin that you had to pay down this credit card.

We over spent for $1,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You got you have some big

conversations that you need to have, Bri. And I I'll give you three takeaways that I think uh the first one I already gave you, which is you need to tell him that your your boundaries for him switching jobs cannot include debt. And

the second thing is it needs to happen after this baby is born. And then the third thing is you want to talk about a more transparent way of handling finances that doesn't include uh credit cards. Like I want a one checking account. We both have a debit card. We both spend the money that we have on the debit card because I am freaking out

because of our debt. So those are the three things you have to tackle. write them down and you can I mean you know him better than we do so you know the best way to kind of be tactical about that but those are those are your non-negotiables.

>> Do you guys do you guys come from the same cultural background?

>> Uh no like similar.

>> Okay. Where where's what's his background?

>> Uh he's from Usbakistan and I'm from Ukraine. >> Okay. And are you guys immigrants or were you born stateside here?

>> We are immigrants. Everything clear?

>> Great. My parents were immigrants as well. And here's what I want to remind you. You guys came here for a better life. I assume >> whether you chose to or your parents chose to, right?

>> We chose both. >> And so here's what I want to remind you. The American dream is now go into as much debt as possible to fund a fake lifestyle so that hopefully we can impress people. And I don't want you guys to fall into that trap. >> Figure it out in our young 20s.

>> Yeah. They say, "Hey, come get a credit card. It's the American way. You'll love it over here. Get your credit score up.

We'll give you more line of credit. Hey, we can get you into a brand new car. Wouldn't that be nice? Do you see how insane this is?

>> It is. >> And so that's what you need to convince him of. Remind him of what he's doing on this earth. He's got a little baby, a little baby on the way. We need to take care of our family first. And that means getting out of debt and staying out of debt. That's going to that's what's going to cause some actual peace. That's going to cause a real American dream to happen. Not trying to do Uber full-time

with a car loan. That's supposedly gonna put yourself in a better financial position. I can guarantee you it's not.

He's going to be calling the show a year from now saying, "How do I get out of this? I'm $20,000 upside down on my car loan." >> So, I hope that helps you with the conversation. Again, like Jade said, you know how to convince him better than anyone. And I think your feelings and emotions around this should be the first thing you lead with.

And if he doesn't respect that, you have a marriage problem. >> Yeah. That and that's so true. This is a good indicator.

uh when you bring this to him, if he starts flipping out or does it anyway, if he does this Uber thing anyway, your next step is we need to get into some counseling and spend some money on that. That's the tough part.

>> Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. >> So sorry you're going through this break. >> Me too. Me too. >> And he needs to find better friends who [music] aren't like, "Dude, you got to do Uber, man. I'm making great money over here." >> They don't live your life. They don't know your stress. >> I know. That's right. Stick around. We'll [music] be back.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fair [music] Winds Credit Union studio continuing on with your calls. Your life, your money. That's what we're talking about. We do it through live calls on the phone lines.

These are not rehearsed. We don't know these people ahead of time. They don't give us a script. This is just We're flying by the seat of our pants. George, >> life is improv, baby. >> That's right. Let's go. Elijah's in California of the United States. What's going on, Elijah? That's what it says on the screen. What's going on, buddy?

>> How's it go? How's it going? Thanks for taking the call. >> You're welcome. How can we help?

>> So, ultimately, my question is trying to

figure out how to separate from my

parents. Um, about two years ago, we

found out my grandpa was going to lose his home. Uh, we grew up in that house for 15 years. Uh, we ended up trying to help. Um, during that process, there was a lot of lot of speed bumps along the way. Uh, my parents had to pay off some debt of theirs to get qualified. I had to get a loan from my boss to get it.

And we ended up we ended up getting it done. Um, but it's been two years. And

>> what was the long-term game plan here?

>> Mhm. >> Um, really it was to have my grandpa

honestly just live the rest of his life in his home comfortably that he's lived in for about 15 20 years. Um, that was

that was there. You know what we were trying to do. I found it as an opportunity for me. I I told my parents this, you know, it seems like a good opportunity for me later in the future if we end up selling the house to, you know, come up with some cash and just get my future started. Um, but there's

been, you know, some push back, some discrepancies about who owns the house, >> how the money is getting split, and it's it's just been a real headache.

>> Well, whose name is on the deed?

>> All three of ours. So, my stepmom, my

dad, and me are all on loan and title.

>> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> And it's a Is it a third each?

>> I mean, we never really discussed that.

I would assume it's a third each. Um, >> like if you sold today and you got the profits, you'd split it three ways, right? You all put in equal amounts.

>> No. So, I put in 14,000. I got a loan

from my boss for $14,000.

Um, >> that feels awkward in and of itself. >> Oh gosh. Alone from your boss.

>> Yeah. >> Kind of awkward to ask for a raise after that. >> Yeah, man. >> He's uh he's been really good to to us.

Uh he really helped us out with that process. It was definitely awkward.

>> Um we did some things along the way that I you know wish we didn't. Uh I didn't know about you guys before that. So we took some money out of the equity. Um consolidated debt.

>> Um >> how much did your dad put in and then how much did your stepmom put in?

not put in anything. According to them, if you ask them, they're going to tell you that they put in $28,000, but in my

uh interpretation of that, they put in 28,000 toward their debt to get qualified for the house.

>> Okay? It's not a dance routine. There's no interpretation. It's how much was actually down when the house was purchased. It doesn't matter what they did to qualify for whatever.

>> Oh, so they paid down their own debt just to qualify for the loan.

>> Correct.

But they actually they put no money into it. >> No money. >> Here's my thing. If you put 14 in, you should get a third of the profits plus the 14 you put in.

>> Is that fair?

>> Yeah. Um the way we've done it from then is because, you know, they want to claim some of the taxes. They want to do these things. I I kind of push back on it like you guys haven't really put any money into the house.

Why should you guys get, you know, all the profits from it? um that that thinking is probably wrong, but I ended up splitting the 14,000 to make it fair to feel like, hey, we've all put in to the house.

>> When you said we ended up, what do you mean you ended up saying? What What do you mean by that?

Um there was just some discussions about

uh the house being sold and they wanted

to claim, you know, my stepmom and my

dad wanted to claim their portion and I was going to get the smaller portion. I felt like I slightly deserved a little bit more because I put most of the money in, >> right? >> Um so, >> and there's no written agreement for any of this. >> Unfortunately, there is not.

>> Okay. And I'm saying who I guess it doesn't really matter. When does >> when are you guys putting the house up for sale? >> So that's the thing is is one of my questions.

Is it is it worth fighting for?

You guys claim the property taxes.

>> I just call BS when this was all for grandpa. This was just a nightmare for the entire family and now it's turned into financial transactions of who gets what. >> Mhm. What's the house even worth if it were to sell today?

>> Um I looked on Zillow and it says about

900, but I don't think we're going to get that because it's it's just not in the condition. It needs a new roof. The air conditioning doesn't work. I've got quotes on all these things. And >> what's the mortgage? Just the mortgage left is 551,000.

>> Okay. So, let's say you guys uh get 800 for it. Is that fair?

>> That that that could be fair. Yeah. >> Pay off the mortgage, pay some fees, 200,000 is what you guys net. Divide it by three, everyone gets 66 and you call it a day or you get a little bit more because of your 14.

I don't know if you can convince them of that. You can create an agreement. I don't know if they'll sign it. This is on all of you for having no written agreement.

So you you must know there's some stupid tax here to be paid that might lose you 14 grand. >> And that's if you can convince them to sell it. >> Yeah. And there there was also equity we took out.

So that would also have to >> Oh my gosh.

>> Um it was supposed to be taken out for property taxes that we couldn't pay. One year we ended up taking out $115,000.

>> Hold on. All three of you together couldn't afford the property taxes on this home.

I I mean at that time, no. I could

afford a couple a couple thousand, but my, you know, I don't want to, you know, speak down on them, but my parents at the time, just financially, they weren't in the position to come up with three, four, $5,000.

>> Then none of you should be in the home ownership game, let alone together as some sort of weird business partnership.

I would try to get a quick claim deed and get your portion and they buy you out and if they can't afford to, we force the sale. the numbers you quoted, was that before or after the 150? So,

are we >> are we deeper in debt than we thought?

>> Are you only going to earn 50,000 off this sale or are you going to >> um probably, but that's you know, that's just another discussion in itself that I

I have kind of heard coming from them that I shouldn't get more than them. Um

I shouldn't get more than them. They they should get a bigger portion. And um

>> well, if we do what you said, which is if there's another loan out there for another 150, what you you know, you don't stand to make much on this.

>> Yeah. >> So, it's I mean that then we're really talking about like how much do you really want to fight on this? Because you said it's worth 551. Maybe you sold it for 800, but if we subtract that 150 out of this, that 200,000 that we thought we would net suddenly goes down to like 50 or 60 >> split three ways.

>> So now you guys are equipped. You're quibbling over $20,000 a piece, which don't get me wrong, $20,000 is a lot of money, but you have to decide.

>> Here's the problem. They probably can't afford to refinance this thing and get you out of it, right? >> Uh-huh. No, they can't. >> Well, I mean, I can try. I can I've

already talked to people about refinancing. I just don't think they they want to take their name off. Um, >> everybody wants out, then just force the sale. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's what you're >> You guys all should have come together to cover the mortgage for grandpa, not buy it off of him and create this family drama. This is destroying a legacy, [music] not helping keep it up.

All

>> [music]

>> right, George. We talk about some very important things on the show, possibly none more important than the will itself because you amass all this debt. You've done well financially, but one of these days you're going to leave the earth. And so, you need to make sure that your family and your loved ones know what to do.

But we get a lot of questions surrounding will. So, let's do a round rob and I'll ask the question, you say the answer. All right. How do you know, George, if I how do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?

>> Okay.

>> Love that. Okay. Well, what do I need to start my will online?

>> It's answering some hard questions like, who do you want to get your stuff? Who's going to take care of the minor kids?

Who do [snorts] you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated?

That's where it gets real. But you got to know those answers. >> You do. You do. You do. Okay. So, number three, is an online will legally valid?

>> Yes, it's valid in your state. So, it's got to be state specific and match those laws. So, if you move, you need a new will. >> That's right.

The same thing happened to us. All right. Why would I want an online will versus doing a traditional one with a lawyer? >> I mean, it's like saying, "Why would I want to get a my my license renewed online when I can go into the DMV and pay triple?" That's kind of what it's like.

Do you want to work with a lawyer and pay, you know, three, four times more? Be my guest.

So, knock it out. >> There you go. That's that's that's it in a nutshell. So, if you have more questions or if you want to know if an online will is right for you, go to ramseolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. It was right for me a while.

You know, >> I used Mama Bear Legal Forums and it was super easy. >> It did. It is. It is. All right, let's go to Isabelle. She's in San Antonio, Teas. What's going on, Isabelle?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I just had a question. Um I have been at uh my job for a little over a decade. Um

we were recently acquired by a bigger

facility. So I have a pretty substantial amount in my 401k with my previous employer. My question is the new company that we were acquired by does offer a 401k as well. I'm on the

fence on whether I should move it. My husband thinks that we should move it to the new 401k. I I just don't know if a

direct 401k rollover into the new one is

the best option since they're both 401ks. So, I was just looking for some guidance. >> Are they doing sort of automatic rollovers with this merger where they're saying, "Hey, we're going to take all these old 401ks and and just move them into the new 401k." What are they saying? >> They're saying that um we are giving the option for a 401k.

We're not it's not going to be a direct rollover. Um, unfortunately, we're we're still going to be getting um the option to have it, but no, it's not going to go directly to that. >> Oh, you can't do a direct roll over.

>> Yeah, you just do a direct roll over to an IRA that you would control.

>> Okay. Um, yeah, because they said everything that I move to it is not going to get, you know, if if I have a substantial amount in there, it's it's not going to get like >> I don't know why the amount would matter. Is there like some sort of limit to where they won't roll it over if it's over a certain amount?

>> No. No. I just never really dealt with it before. So, >> I would get in touch with HR and see, hey, what's going on with the old 401ks?

What's the plan? If you have great options and low fees in that new 401k and they can do a direct rollover, that's fine. Or if you want to do a direct rollover to an IRA that you control, that's also fine. The key here is you don't want to actually take out the money. You you never want to see this money because then you're going to get hit with penalties and fees. Mhm.

>> So, that's the simplest way to do it is just those are the key words, direct rollover. Great call. Great question.

All right, we've got Monica who's in Chicago, Illinois. Hey, Monica, you're on the line. >> Hi. Thank you for taking the call.

>> You bet. >> My question is centered around my home.

You know, my my husband and I, we bought a home in 2020 when the mortgage rates

were really low. So, we have a great uh rate of 2.5, but we, you know, the last

couple of years, we just outgrown the home. The layout of the home is just doesn't fit our needs anymore. And we are looking either to take out a home equity loan to remodel, extend our current home because we have that great mortgage rate or um potentially purchasing a new home. But every home that we've been looking that would fit our needs is much much higher than our current mortgage at a higher interest rate. >> So, we're just trying to what makes sense? What's the best, >> you know, case for us?

>> Well, what I'm hearing I'm hearing two sides of an equation. It's like, hey, if we keep the current home, we'd like to remodel it, but we don't have the money to do that, so we'd have to take debt to do it. And then I see I see another side over here which says well what if we just took debt and got a bigger house and then you realize but if we did that we couldn't afford it. So the second is

the second option is shining light on what's really true which is you can't afford it. Does that make sense?

>> Well we don't have any other debt. Um we

make um a fairly stable good income.

Mhm. >> We're under the equation that they recommend of like how much is your from your monthly income? How much are you allocating towards your mortgage? We're way under that. >> I understand that. But if you were to add that debt, if you were to take that same amount, let's say, how much do you think you'll spend on a remodel?

>> It's another 150.

>> Okay. So, if you went out in the market and bought another house for $150,000 more dollars, you'd suddenly realize, oh my gosh, I can't afford that. Which is what happened. So, >> especially when that heliloc is at, you know, 8% interest and now it's variable.

So, you're not really winning by keeping the two and a half,

>> right? >> Do you see what we're saying?

>> Options between like not because I see that that has like a variable uh interest rate. So, I was thinking like another type of home equity or personal >> I mean, even a home equity loan, it'll be a it'll be a fixed rate on that, but it's still going to be much higher than your two and a half. So, I I just wouldn't hang on to these golden handcuffs of the low rate, but the all the math of it is you guys can't afford to move to a a bigger house >> with the current numbers and you can't afford to do the renovations.

So, we need to find out a compromise here, which might be we're going to save up and cash flow these renovations over the next year or two.

>> Uh, we can probably save about 4,000.

4,000 a month. Not bad. Yeah.

So that's 50 grand a year and you have 150 grand of renovations you want to do.

Is that really what it's going to cost?

>> That's approximately. We've had a couple of quotes here and there and they vary between 80 to you know depending it

could be up to 200. >> Oh gosh. So it's multiple rooms. You're doing multiple rooms of the house.

>> It would just it would be an extension and it's an older home. So if you're already going to >> the other my other fear is that you overbuild in the neighborhood because what what kind of homes are in your neighborhood? What are the going numbers people are selling for? >> The neighborhood is actually getting better and we see these type of home they call them additions or renovations like coming up like two per block every couple of months.

So that the neighborhood is actually you know moving along the same path of doing this extending your home.

>> Um, >> would you guys want to stay there forever regardless of the mortgage interest rate? Is this the forever home if you added 100 grand of renovations to it or at least like, you know, five or home or something?

>> Yes. Like if we were to, you know, accommodate it, re renovate it, we could see this being our forever home. Um, so

that's why we were kind of liking the idea of like, well, we have a low mortgage rate, we pay a low mortgage, we're able to save a little bit, but if we want to do it soon, we would have to incur this. >> Yeah. What's the exact urgency here?

>> What changed in your situation that the home was good in 2020, but now it's not anymore. Did you have kids?

>> Oh, well, we just got married. We were We didn't have kids. We didn't have pets. And we were we weren't thinking that this was going to be the forever home. But as time passed and now we have a daughter and pets and we're starting to see things more long-term, you know, back then it was even so hard to get a home like because the prices were so low. >> Well, if your mortgage is if your mortgage is so reasonable right now, couldn't you move up in home?

>> That's what I was going to say. I feel like your money is better spent saving up for to close the gap on a down payment of the home that would really suit your needs cuz adding an extension and building on and la that feels like like to George's point that you could really overbuild um and that you're just

uncovering a nightmare of just more and more and more expenses. >> It's going to be stressful for the next year or two even doing this with or without debt. So, I would encourage you guys to go, okay, if we just keep knocking out this mortgage, we're just building more equity, and when we go to sell, we'll get more profit. We can put that toward the next home.

>> That's what I would encourage you guys to do. That's what I've done in the past. If you guys can knock out that mortgage, well, now we have 100% equity when we sell.

All right, it's time for our question of the day, which which is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans

are in default and if you feel stuck, I'm telling you, you're not out of options. Yi specializes in helping borrowers just like you find real solutions with low fixed rate refinancing. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Remember, it's not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Declan in California. I'm currently earning more than I ever have, but I find myself struggling to tithe. I haven't stopped, but I'm doing it with a heavy heart. I'm married. We're debtree and have a baby.

It's not the same to give 10 bucks when you earn a hundred as it is giving 10,000 when you earn a h 100,000.

>> And what >> at this level, you start measuring the opportunity cost, what that money could mean for your family, the experiences it could fund, and the security it could provide. I'm not questioning the principle of tithing, but I am wrestling with the posture of my heart. My concern is that even though I haven't stopped tithing, it might not be pleasing to the Lord if it's not offered joyfully. Do you have any advice for me?

>> What a great question. >> That's a very thoughtful question from Declan. I appreciate the way he phrased this all >> and uh and I I relate to it. I can actually see where he's coming from as the numbers start to get bigger.

>> There's more zeros on the end. Even though because 10% like he said of a hundred Well, yeah, 10 bucks and I got to live on the 90. That's something now a h 100,000 and I'm giving 10,000 you're it definitely puts some pause.

>> Uh I mean yes you could say that but it's you could also flip the script and be like listen when you only if you only had a hundred bucks and you had to give 10 of it you'd be like shoot like I already couldn't do anything with this money and now >> there's a threshold of like I can survive off of this. So yeah there there's a piece of it where you go well you can can you live >> can you be grateful that you make $100,000 now in California? Who knows that that might not get you very far based on where he's living.

And I don't know how much he makes. He just he's giving us the principle. He didn't say how much he's actually making or how much he's giving. >> He said he's not questioning the principle.

uh believes because I think the heart posture thing I think and I don't know

um Declan, but I think the biggest reminder is if you can remember it was never yours. Once we start thinking of it as ours is when all bets are off.

>> Yeah. We call that, you know, being a steward >> is what the Bible says. And it definitely changes it when you go, I'm not managing this for me. I'm managing it for someone else.

>> If it's not my money, then it's not my business, right? >> I'm just going to do what's right. I'm going to be faithful and obedient, do the 10% and learn to live on the rest.

It's like we do with taxes, you know?

Now, taxes are not fun. I hope you have more enjoyment tithing than you do paying taxes, but you go, "All right, I got to pay my 25% to the government,

>> and I'm going to learn to live to live on the rest." >> Yeah. And I mean, I would just It does feel different when it's the government cuz it's [laughter] like >> that's anger inducing. >> That's anger inducing. Um, I would encourage you since you seems like a a faithfilled person, I would encourage you to to pray about that and ask God, "Hey, help me out with this.

I want to do it, but I don't want to do it based on legalism. I want to do it with the right heart and I I want to be a cheerful giver.

>> ask for help and when you ask usually that door is open. >> You shall receive. That's right. >> I like that. I you know it's kind of this like God I trust you more than my money. And so it's not about losing 10%.

It's just about acknowledging 100% belongs to God. That's that's the faith posture. And it's not that's takes a place of spiritual maturity that it's difficult to get to. And so I appreciate you kind of >> showing us this this journey while you're in it. And a little practicality on it, you know, you're you're faking it till you make it. But a little practicality would be to remind yourself

of all your blessings because you were blessed with now one, you know, the $10,000 that you now have to tithe from uh or I'm sorry, the hundred,000 that you're now tithing from. If you can kind of list out, oh my gosh, here's how my life's better. Here's how this has been a breakthrough for me. like all of those blessings I think will also give you put you in a greater spirit of gratitude to be able to do that. So, >> and a good a great resource on this is Dave Ramsey's book, The Legacy Journey.

He unpacks this beautifully with scripture and the heart and the motives behind it and all about wealth building as well. So, make sure to check out that book. >> All right. Very good. Back to the phone lines. Becca in Austin, Texas. What's up, Becca? How are you doing?

>> Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. Um, my question for y'all is, so I'm in the market. I need to buy a new car. And based off of my savings,

I'm wondering what you guys think I should spend on a car. And if you think that I should take out a loan, and if I do take out a loan, how much should I put down? >> Now, Becca, do you think we're going to tell you to take out a loan on a vehicle? [clears throat] >> Okay.

Yeah. >> We [laughter] like Becca too much. >> That one off the list. >> We just like you too much to put you into debt.

So, let's figure out how much car we can get. How much do you have in savings?

>> Does that include your emergency fund? Is that everything?

>> That's 401k, Roth IRA, checking savings.

>> Oh, boy. Okay. Well, let's take retirement out of this. How much do you have that's non-retirement above your emergency fund?

>> I have just in my checkings, I have just

over 22,000.

>> Okay. Do you have savings like for an emergency fund or is that it? Yes, I I

have savings on top of that.

>> Okay, so what's your 3 to six month emergency fund? How much is in there?

>> Honestly, I haven't broken that down. Um

I have a pretty a relatively low cost of living, so I know that I could live off of that for quite some time.

>> Well, I want to encourage you to split it because here's what happens. The car becomes the emergency and then it depletes your emergency fund. So, I would have a separate, you know, maybe you create another account within a savings account. You can have multiple and one is emergency fund, the other one is car fund. That's what I would do. So, take three to six months, set it aside.

Whatever's left over in cash becomes your car fund. And if it doesn't get you the car you want right now, keep saving.

>> What's your income?

>> Um, I'm in college, so I make just under 23 an hour. Um, I work four to five days a week, so it comes out to about 24,000 a year. >> Okay. And what how much car are you looking at? Like, tell us the number or the make and model.

um either a Toyota or a Honda. I was

hoping originally to spend about $9,000,

but um the car market right now is not

great. So, that's not going to get me quite what I thought. You know, I'm I want to get something that is worth buying something new. Um my family lives in a different city, so you know, I want to be able to drive and see them as well. >> What if you spent like 12,000?

Okay, >> that would be my that would be my top number. So, here's the here's our parameter. You should never have things that have wheels and motors that add up to more than half of your annual income.

So, if this is your only car and you make 24 grand a year, 12K would be my out the door number for you.

>> And so, that's what you're looking for and which definitely changes your search. You're not going to the new car dealership. You're not just looking at any car because if you look at a 2023 Corolla, well, now the the 2012 looks like I'm not going to drive that >> coup. Right.

Right. And so for especially for a college kid, I think you should be driving the worst cars as you're when you're young and it should only get better over time. >> Absolutely.

>> I know. That's right. >> It drives me insane. What parents doing?

>> I agree. [laughter] >> I Yeah, thankfully I I'm not used to a luxurious car. Mine is almost as old as me. So I'm As long as it works, I'm happy with that. >> Well, Becca, you've done a great job.

You're young. You don't have any debt.

You've saved up money. You're working.

I'm proud of you. I I think a $12,000 car is gonna be just the thing you need.

George, I love when somebody young calls in and they got a good head on their shoulder. It's >> fantastic. >> When she said she wanted to spend $9,000, >> let your budget drive what kind of car you get. Not the kind of car you get drive the budget.

Cuz that's where we get it twisted and we go, "Well, they upsold me and they said they could work with me on the payment and then they end up with 20 grand in car loan debt at 23% [laughter] interest." >> Insane. Oh my goodness.

Tok. Okay, >> he says, "Should I put the $1,000 emergency fund in a high yield savings account so it can grow instead of just sitting there?" >> I mean, sure, but grow is is relative.

It's about how much I'm going to grow in height at 36 years old. Let me do the math for you. Right now, you would get $35 in a year. So, three bucks a month

is what you'd make if that Hey, if that gets you excited, >> I'm happy for you. But I would park it.

I mean, I would keep it in a high y old yield savings account just cuz it's a good place to keep it, but no, not for the growth. It's not meant to be an investment. This is your insurance policy against life throwing you some ankle biter emergencies while you're trying to knock out the debt. >> Yeah, it's better there than like in your sock drawer or like, you know, stuffed under your cushion cuz then you might pull it out if you're just running to 7-Eleven.

Well, those socks get eaten up in the laundry, so your money might go with it. >> Be careful with that. We don't want that.

High yield savings account is great for it.

All

right, our scripture and quote of the day. Isaiah 55:8-9.

My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. >> What a flex. >> I know, right? Come on now. Albert Einstein said, "Two things are infinite.

The universe and human stupidity." And I'm not yet completely sure about the universe, man. Just >> classic Einstein burn.

>> The shade. [laughter] Golly. Tell you what, man. He's right, though. All right. Lauren is in Hendersonville, North Carolina. Hi, Lauren. How can we help today? Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, yes, I

am um in the final stages of tying up my

dad's estate and um the first thing um

on the list is we're going to be selling possibly one of my dad's cars. And my

husband feels that um my inheritance is

now ours because we are one and that wives are to submit to your husband in all things. and he really wants me to sell the Lexus and I'm feeling very conflicted and I'm not at peace because I'm not ready to sell it. I'm not sure what I want to do with it, but I also don't want to be going against what my husband thinks is best. So, >> I'm hoping for some wisdom on how to

handle this because this is just the first item. We've got a long ways to go.

Um, >> when did your dad pass?

>> He passed away three years ago. three years ago. Okay. So, you've just been going through, you know, little by little and sorting through everything.

>> Yeah, we we ended up in probate. So, um you know how long that can take to [clears throat] get through things. >> Okay. So, what all did you end up with?

That's an >> um So I have I ended up with an

investment account that's worth 390,000,

an inherited 401k that's worth 300,000,

>> about a quarter million in gold, and then a his house which is worth about

1.1 million.

>> Wow. >> And then the car. >> What's the car worth?

>> Um it's a 2018 Lexus LS400. I'm going to

guess it's probably around like 45,000.

Um, I can't remember how many miles it has on it, but it's pretty low. >> So, it's the smallest asset in the entire estate, and we're already arguing about this. And you want to keep it for yourself and drive it.

>> I don't know if I mean, I wouldn't My car is paid for. I drive a a 2018 Honda

CRV. Um, so it wouldn't be like I'd be

driving this all the time. I would still >> Yeah. What's the rush in selling it? Why can't you just keep it cuz you like it and it reminds you of your dad. You got a bunch of >> money here. >> I do have an emotional attachment to it.

So, that's what I'm struggling with. Um,

and I think his concern is like the

upkeep and where are we going to keep it, which are all valid concerns.

>> Okay, I see. >> Um, >> what are the ultimate goals that you guys had before any of this existed?

>> Um, our ultimate goals with the estate or >> with just money? like were you trying to pay off debt, trying to pay off the mortgage? Where are you guys at?

>> So, um we were just paying off our car

loans. We didn't even own a home. We were just renting and we actually bought our home with the life insurance that my dad left us. So, we don't have any debt.

>> How much was that?

>> Um it's our house is worth about 380,000. >> Okay. What's going to happen with his house? Are you selling it and going to invest the cash?

>> I do plan on selling it. Yes. I don't It's in Atlanta and I um I won't be able

to, you know, keep that up or anything.

It's warehouse and I would >> So the 40 the So the true the true

argument around the car, there's only one argument that I see which is we don't have space for it. >> So I'm guessing you guys have a two-car garage and it's just sitting in the in the driveway blocking everything and it's annoying for your husband. Is that it? Yeah, we actually don't have a garage, but um yeah, we just have our driveway.

Um so [clears throat] the it is it it

would need to go somewhere. um that is a hurdle if I were to keep it and I don't think he's excited about having to pay

to store it somewhere or you know he

thinks a lot of the responsibility would fall on him to keep >> well it's kind of almost like I'd almost if you did store it somewhere if you did I'm not saying you should but if you did it's like your grandfather your it's like your dad's paying for it right since all this money came from him >> yeah I mean you you still have another $2 million that will you know manifest itself here from all the other assets what's your plan with that.

>> Um, I really don't have a plan yet. I do

have, like I said, I have an investment account and, um, I I didn't want to get

ahead of myself on what to do with it. I was just trying to close up the estate.

Um, you know, before I figured out how

to, you know, diversify it. But I really don't have a plan. >> Does your husband have ideas of what he would want to do with this 2 million?

>> He does. He wants me to put it in stocks. >> Um, >> single stocks?

>> No, I don't think so. I think they're group stocks. Um, >> like mutual funds, index funds. Okay.

>> Right. Yeah, that sounds I don't have any experience with that. Um, I know he

does. Um, so but yeah, I guess I'm just I don't

want to go against my husband and

but I'm feeling very conflicted because I really am not ready to get rid of it, but I feel like it's going to cause >> What do you What do you guys make of your >> issues?

So, my husband's a stay at home or my husband works for himself. I'm a stay at home mom. I I homeschool our six-year-old. >> Um, he on our last tax return made about

15,000. He just works part-time. Um

>> 15. >> How do you guys live? How were you living before you inherited this money?

>> We're We're using my investment account money to supplement our income.

>> But how were you not >> before you received it? Did you have a trust fund before?

>> I did not. No, he was working full-time at that point. He's since I've received this money, he has cut back a lot.

>> And is the game plan just to live off these investments for the rest of your lives and never work again?

I I do not think that that's why. No, I do not want to do that. >> Let Let's Let me I'm gonna give you some real talk right now. Um there's there's something uh there's a thread in this that that doesn't sit right with me from hearing you talk. Um

and I I'm just going by what I'm hearing you say. Um I feel like

this this money came from a loved one of yours. And it is your money. It's both of your money. But it feels like your husband is feeling like this is what I want to do and so this is what I'm going to do.

And it's almost like for him it's it's a it's permission to do what he wants to do which is now I no longer want to work even though you're saying hey I think you still need to work and this is just here for the family to to to you know for us to live on later and it will continue to be an an inheritance for our children right and don't get me wrong there's parts of that that you can enjoy but then over here when there's something that you would like to enjoy which is I'd like to keep this car around this reminds me of my dad and if we have to store it we'll just use some of the millions that my dad left us to pay for it.

I'm fine with that. But then over there, for some reason, he's not letting you do that. And I've heard you use a little bit of language that is kind of making me feel like it's being taken out of context.

don't want to do that and I don't agree with that and we need to stop and no one needs to do anything until both of us agree at the very least. And that's not

being disrespectful. That's just you being able to have a say and have a vote in what goes on. And it's okay for you guys to not do anything until

there's mutual agreement. And that goes with working or not working. Like I I I

think you guys need to have some tough conversations and you need to let him know that you're not feeling heard >> in this relationship.

>> And the truth is he's just thought about this longer than you have of what he's going to do with this money. He has a little bit more financial literacy. And so your job now is to gain some financial literacy because you just got a whole bunch of wealth to manage. And that might mean you get some pros in your corner.

You have a good tax pro, a good real estate pro, a good investment pro to help you figure all this out, to help you understand it, to help you make the right next move. And then you and your husband can get aligned based on all the advice they give you >> and what your personal goals are. But right now, there's no real vision for this household. And so I don't I don't trust him trying to control you with scripture when he has no vision for the family other than I'm going to make, you know, 10 grand a year for my hobby.

And so I think we have a lot of things to figure out before we do anything with this money.

>> So I hope you guys can get to the root of that. >> Yeah. What a gift, but allow it to be a gift. Don't don't turn that blessing into a curse by letting it [music] pull you guys apart. That's that's for sure.

Woo! All right, guys. Well, that does it for this episode. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 251. You Can Stay Broke Or Start Changing | October 10, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. All right, we're talking about your life and money. Nothing's changed. The number is 888825-5225.

That'll get you on the line. and I'm here with Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jade Warshaw. Let's get into it, John. Let's get involved. We got Dana in Phoenix, Arizona. What's up, Dana?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> No problem. >> Um, my question is whether or not my

husband and I should accept a gift of $38,000 from our in-laws when there is a

major history of dysfunction around money in his family.

>> What's the gift for? Why is it just out of the blue or is it for something specific?

>> Um, they pretty regularly are trying to give us money and pay for things, but this gift apparently is for tax

purposes. They recently met with their financial planner um tax accountant who

told them that because of their gains that they made this year in the stock market that it would be tax advantageous for them to gift um each of us $19,000.

Mhm. >> Um the backstory really is that um his

parents have used money as a tool for control and manipulation in the past. Um

so much so that um when we were planning

our wedding 17 years ago, um we ended up

eloping because of their behavior around money. >> Wow. >> Um and the money issues as well as other things led to us not having a relationship with them for 10 years. Is it just your husband or are there other children?

>> Um, he has a brother. Um, things are kind of different with his relation, his brother's relationship with his parents.

They just have very different personalities and how they handle things. Um, >> so the money's not been a problem for the brother that you know of, or is it kind of a problem for him, too?

Well, they've sort of used the same tactics with his brother except that his brother and his wife gladly accept money from them anytime it's offered. Um,

since they've reestablished their relationship, my husband and his parents, six years ago, um, they actually ended up moving to our small town two years ago and since then it's just they're constantly trying to give us money. We're business owners.

>> Give us an example of the manipulation.

Tell us what that looks like. tell us what happened either with the wedding or and tell us tell us >> I want a recent one. >> Yeah. >> You want a recent one? Um so anytime so

like I said we're business owners.

Anytime something happens so if a truck breaks down or you know just regular business things happen it's let us pay for it. We'll pay for it. We'll buy you another truck. And when we say no >> um they tell my husband that he's being difficult. They don't understand why they won't let him let them just help.

And what does he say? >> Um, there's there's crying, there's a

lot of emotion is important, what is his next statement? If if his next statement is, I love y'all too much and I'm so glad we have our relationship back. I can't let money come between us, that's one thing. If he when they start

crying and he says, "Fine, just fine."

Um, then that's another thing. So, what's his response?

his response to them is that we're just

not comfortable taking the money or the help. Um I don't know how indepth he's

got with them about because of money issues in the past. Um because generally when he's tried to bring up things from the past, he's usually met with I don't know what you're talking about that never happened. >> What and what were those? Tell like I need from you Dana like the raw and the real. Do you know what I'm saying? like tell me when we did it he slapped her and said that she he was ungrateful.

Like tell me the drama part of it because honestly at this point as you're telling me it doesn't really sound like they're bad people or like doing anything wrong per se. It just sounds like they see an area they want to help and they're confused that you don't want their help. And them being confused doesn't make them bad guys to me or manipulators. just makes them parents

that are overstepping a boundary that maybe you've laid over and over again and they just can't see why you wouldn't want to take a gift. Tell me the the toxic part of it. Is there a toxic part of it where when you take the money they try to control you and tell tell me that part. >> Yes. So I'll give you our wedding example. Um when we were planning our wedding where we were getting married was a resort by a creek. Um and as is

traditional and normal, we asked his parents to pay for their lodging. My father was paying for our wedding >> and um the lodging that we offered to

them. My parents asked did they do they want this house. It was the house that was right next to the creek. It had four or five bedrooms in it and we figured that their whole immediate family and everyone could stay in that house since they were traveling.

>> And if they didn't want that house, my parents would have paid for it. Um

when we presented it to my father-in-law, he said, "Of course, he paid for it." And then as soon as money was involved, we started getting constant phone calls telling us what to do with our wedding, how to plan the weddings, who could come, who couldn't come. I remember very specifically getting a phone call from my father-in-law asking me when I was going to send the save the date. And my timeline on sending them was unacceptable to him. And he specifically said to me, "This isn't rocket science, Dana.

You need to send it back." >> Got you. Okay, now I'm starting Now I'm starting to get it. Okay, so you had this badam this bad thing that happened a long time ago and it's kind of left a bad taste in everybody's mouth. You don't want to take money anymore.

And when you try to explain to them, hey, the last time we took money, this is how you guys acted. We don't want to do that again. They're kind of like, don't bring up the past. What are you talking about?

>> Well, the thing is is we haven't really addressed the past.

>> Okay. So, it sound I mean, John, jump in here because >> Yeah. Here's Did your husband

do y'all just not want to take this money?

it. Well, the issue is mostly for our

business. We're very proud of ourselves that we've built this business. Um, >> yeah, but there's there's a point of that where it becomes ego, >> right? Cuz I'm listen, I'm looking at 38,000 and I'm like, tell me more because this >> I built something I built something cool, too. And if you want to send me 38 grand, I'm happy to take it.

>> It's just that >> you y'all have had a grenade dropped.

It's a grenade's probably dramatic. You've had a large firecracker dropped in your living room. they offered you 38 grand. If you take it, that might come with you're going to do Christmas here because we gave you this money and yall are going to say, "No, we don't want to do Christmas there. We're going to do somewhere else." And they're you're going to have an adult temper tantrum on their side. Or you're going to say no to the money and you're going to have an adult temper tantrum on their side.

>> So, they've already taken the step.

>> So, really, here's the here's the bigger issue. You're still, no matter what decision y'all make, you are letting them drive the right decision for you and your husband. And at some point, y'all have to decide that we decide what's best for us.

>> And if it's taking the money and dealing with drama or dealing with somebody saying, "You didn't send these out in the right time." Shut up. Who cares?

>> Yeah. as you say on the front end, hey, we're not we just want you to know we're so grateful and this is such a nice gift, but please, we don't want any strings to be attached, which means if it's a gift, it's a gift and we'd be grateful to you for giving it, but we're hoping that there will be nothing else attached to it. And if there is, let us know now so we can decide. That's what I' that's what I'd say.

>> Or they can create a 529 for their grandkids. >> Yeah.

your money." Yeah, you could say that, too. >> Cuz I'm willing to bet I'm willing to bet you would have started getting those emails and calls if he hadn't have had to pay for his own place for that wedding. Is that fair?

>> Yeah. >> So, they're going to be like this whether they're giving you money or not, right? >> Oh, that's such a good point. >> Yeah.

It's just such an ongoing issue. I just don't I know it's important to me and I don't want our relationship to get affected. The relationship's already affected. >> It's already a problem.

>> Yeah. I don't think the money is the problem. I think their personality style and their personality traits are the problem. And money just magnifies everything, right?

It magnifies you as you already are. It makes you more of what you already are. So, it's more of I don't really like their personality. They're controlling people.

That's another topic. >> So, you're in a fight.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music] All right, back to the phone lines we go. We've got Kelly who's in North Carolina. Kelly, how can we help today?

>> Hi.

I've got some credit card debt and two of them um is over 26,000. 26,76.

I'm overwhelmed. Um I've tried to keep

up with everything. Uh but with the interest rate, I'm not getting anywhere.

And so, um I don't know what to do. I don't know whether it's bankruptcy.

Um I've called different debt things. Uh and they want like the fees are like

$16,000, $10,000 for fees. And

in in my hand, I don't see that that's a real I don't know what to do. I don't know what to call a bankruptcy or what to do. I'm we've um

>> um we've cleared off uh I think five six

cards and we're shut down. We're

shutting them down as fast as we can.

But the uh two and we have a couple others, but we we can work those through. But the two with the chase,

I'm I'm at Williams. I I don't know what to do. >> Okay, Kelly. So, can you told me the the

two that's got the 26,000 on it? Can you tell me the rest of the debt?

>> Yes, I can. Um,

well,

I thought I could.

>> So, because you mentioned you said the two combi the two combined is 26,76.

Then you said there's a couple others that you can kind of handle.

Yeah, there there's there's one that's um 8,000 with discover.

>> Okay. >> But I think that we could handle that.

And there's another one I think that we owe when I I had it right in front of me.

Now I can't see. >> That's okay. You you look for that. And um I I'll just verify a couple other simple questions. You said we is it you and your husband?

>> Yes. >> Okay. How old are you guys?

My husband is 78 and I just turned 76.

Uh my husband had pastored for 56 years.

We lived in church parsonage.

>> Okay. >> And so then we had to move into a house and we used a lot of credit cards.

>> Okay. So you guys have really been using credit cards to live on.

>> Yes. Okay. That is so true. It was so true. >> I'm sorry, Kelly.

>> That's okay. I need to bite my bottom lip for a minute. Yeah. >> No, you're okay to be sad. You're right to be sad.

>> But I'm trying to I'm trying to work it out. Um I don't know. Should I try to

call? >> No, no, no. You called the right place.

You called the right place. What's your total? If you had to add up all the money that you owe somebody else, how much is that?

Um,

well, Discover we owe um 8,23655.

>> Okay. >> Um, and there's another small one and I

can't find it. It's like $430 or

something like that. We can >> we can do that. I want to do what's right before the Lord. I just >> Well, listen, you're on the right track.

your your heart and your mind are saying, "I need to clean up this mess." And that's the first step, and we're going to help you with the rest. >> And we don't go out to eat here at the

house. >> We um I have sold stuff right and left

like >> um there's something somebody's supposed to come and buy today >> that if they show up, we'll help.

>> Yeah. Listen, I believe that you're doing all that, Kelly. I think you're doing all the right things. We're going to try to help you take the next step.

Can you tell us what your income is every month between um >> Yes, I can.

>> My um let me get my ledger here. I get

$1,63860

in um Medicare. >> Okay. >> We have a house rental that we get

$1,12.50 a month.

My husband gets

his social security is $1,598.90

a month. >> $1,5.98. Uh-huh.

>> And then um

from the Southern Baptist, uh he gets um it's called a housing

allowance. So um >> we don't have to pay tax on it. and that's $38,2.39

a month. >> Okay. >> And then he gets um a small VA

disability check of 17123 a month.

>> Okay. >> And then he gets a small retirement uh

372.95 for teachers retirement.

>> Okay. So you're almost 5,000 bucks a month. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Good. it. So, um I mean I'm really

um >> How much of that do you pay? I know you get a a a housing allowance, but how much of that do you pay to your home every month?

>> We our our house payment is $2,1664.

>> Okay. Um that's a big part of this while

you're feeling so much stress. Okay.

your your housing payments high. Um, and

can you tell me, you said you moved into that house recently. Can you tell me what the house what you purchased it for?

>> Well, um, 19 years ago when my husband

was pastored, he had a a major heart

attack while preaching and he had to have a four bypass >> and we were a long ways away from the hospital and so we stayed at a place called Annette House. So, one of our

heart's dreams that we would pay that forward. So, our heart was the house that we have here has three bedrooms

downstairs and a very, very large room upstairs. >> Got it. >> So, what we want to do is establish a place called the shepherd's home where people have >> they can come and stay with us and we can still minister to them.

>> I love Go ahead, John. >> I was going to say, Kelly, can I tell you something? And I'm telling you because I love you.

>> Yes. Y'all can't afford to do that right

now.

Your heart is so big

and it's like it was such a blessing,

but y'all aren't in a position to do that right now because y'all can't make your basic payments, your basic bills. And that dream is amazing.

>> And we know that we can't do it until we get out of debt. >> I know. But you don't you even if you were out of debt, like sustainably speaking, like it's it's it it I don't know there's ever a scenario where 50% of your take-home pay or 40% of your take-home pay should go to housing because housing the the taxes are going to go up, the cost of electricity is going to go like this is going to continue to be an escalating burden for you. >> Yeah.

So, we've got to get you in a a position that's sustainable for you to manage the monthly payment of your rent or mortgage and also to your point, make make some

headway on these credit cards because you can't pay them off making the minimum payment. >> Do you have any equity in this house that if y'all sold it, you could clear your debts?

>> No, we don't. We don't have we have well

and one of the things I I didn't understand is the first year we overpaid

>> our uh taxes on the house

>> and the tax company here did a refund to

the mortgage company >> and and I told the mortgage company I said we've overpaid you. you need to either give us that money back or let us apply that $7,000 over payment to um

>> to principal. >> Mhm. >> And they said, "No, it went back in escrow or in um >> for the following year." >> Yeah. It just goes into the following year's taxes. So, you're not going to lose that money. You just don't get it right now. >> Uhhuh. It it's gone towards the next year's taxes.

>> So, >> but see, but every every month they take out money out of our taxes. So, why didn't they >> Kelly? I didn't know >> here's what I I want to hold you over cuz >> your problem is one that millions and millions of people are facing and so I want to give you a step-by-step plan and I don't want to get distracted by well the tax's over here and this over there.

>> Um but I want to I want you to hang on the line. We're going to go to a break and we come back we're going to walk through this with you. Um >> but you're going to have to open your heart up to some significant changes in how y'all are doing life so that y'all can put your own oxygen mask on first and then be able to take care of the people around you.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

If you're a person who's been rocking with us for a while, you've been watching the show on YouTube, maybe you check it out on podcast or on the Ramsey Network app. Hey, maybe you're still listening to us on a thing called the radio. We're really grateful for that.

>> Love the radio. >> When was the last time you had the radio on? >> I had it on this week. >> I love that. >> Just listen to old country music.

>> I love that. Wow, that's great. >> And hey, here's a flex. My son, he's 15,

is like, "Dad, turn off this. Like, just turn the radio on." >> And I'm I'm just wondering if they're done with all the players >> reverting back. Yep. >> I love it. Listen, wherever you're listening to the show, first off, we just want to say thank you for listening. If it wasn't for you guys, John and I wouldn't have jobs. So, thank you so much for listening. And if this show has done anything for you, take a moment and share it with somebody.

Honestly, the best marketing plan out there is just word of mouth. So, if you like the show, if we said something that hit, uh, share it with somebody. Hit the little paper airplane on social or, you know, send them a a link, you know, slide in their DMs, whatever, whatever method of choice that you have. Keep sharing the show.

We really, really appreciate it. Something that you can do totally free and only takes a second of your time, but has a great, great benefit. Thank you so much. Okay, we are going to go back on the line.

Uh, just a little recap, her and her husband, 78, 76 years old. They've got a decent amount of debt. So far, it looks like they've got somewhere around maybe $36,000 of debt. We haven't gotten the exact number yet, uh, but they're making 5,000 bucks a month. And she's looking for a way out. We were able to figure out that her house payment is 21,00,000.

So, right now we're talking about uh what it looks like, Kelly, to sell your house because I know that you have a dream of ministry and, you know, being able to gift those rooms to people in need in your three-bedroom house, but uh >> or is there a possibility that you in the short term, maybe the next year, um Kell, you um invited people to live with

you and charged them a,000 bucks a month

or 500 or $800 a month and they could rent the rooms. from you for the next year, the next two years while you all climb out of debt and get yourselves in a better position.

>> Well, actually, we have a really, really large room upstairs that has um, you

know, complete bathroom. It's got a couch. It's got >> Sure, Sure. Sure. Sure.

>> queen bed and everything.

>> And we thought about renting that out, but everybody that we've talked to wants an outside entrance.

>> Sure. I can see that, >> Kelly. I'm going to shoot you straight. Here, here's the Yeah, here's where you find yourself. >> I'm going to shoot you straight. You've got to sell your house. Um, renting

renting is putting way more on your plate at 78 years old. It's something that you'll have to keep up indefinitely because, like I said before, you're on that fixed income. So, your plan today, I'm going to tell you right off the bat, your plan is to rent, put your house up for sale, get on ramseyolutions.com, and find yourself a realtor because we have the best in the business. And you got to sell this house.

And after that, you've got to find something, even if you rent for a while, something that is only 25% of your take-home pay. That's all you can afford. So, you're spending like $1,250 a month or $1,500 a month.

basically your budget there. And then from there, we're going to do a little thing called the debt snowball. You're going to list and you're going to go through tonight with your husband and you're going to find all the things that you owe. You're going to list them from smallest to largest and you're going to pay the minimum payment on everything, Kelly. But the smallest debt, that's where you put all your extra money until you knock it out. So, it sounded like you had one that was for about $430.

Let's get that one knocked out immediately. And so, that's how this is going to work. And then you'll go to the next smallest debt. In the meantime, we're going to get you uh hooked up with Every Dollar.

And on every dollar, you can get a free coaching call. So, we're going to make sure uh to get you hooked up. uh our phone screener is going to pick up and make sure to get you hooked up with that. Okay, so you're all taken care of.

>> I I think something else I want to call out here. If you have too much house, right, and by the way, let's go back to Kelly for those of you who are just tuning in.

That's amazing. and

they've got a math problem, which is we can't afford to pay off our debts and make our make our our payments. So, if you buy a house that's too much, usually that means depending on what market you're in, that house is big, which means your >> electric bill is high, your water bill is more to air to air condition and heat that place is more. So, in their situation, they may be looking at a one-bedroom apartment because that's what they can afford. >> Absolutely. And that also drops their

utility payments. It drops everything.

So, you're not just going to see the the the savings in the mortgage. You're going to see savings that come from all over the place. >> And that can help you get out of there faster. >> And let me just can I just say this cuz I I feel like we live in a world today where everything has to be bigger and better and flashier and newer. Can I just say there's no shame in living on your hard-earned income. Yeah.

>> And just living on what your income can afford you. that credit card companies will make you feel like you need more and we need extra. But to just work hard

and in her case to have worked hard for, you know, seven levels of life, right?

And to just say, "Okay, we worked hard for seven seven decades. We got $5,000.

That is our income and we are going to live on that and have pride in that and feel good about that." There is no shame in the game of that. That's right. >> And I just >> It might look differently than you dreamed your 70s would look, >> right? Um but man oh man that you're talking about um an amazing woman, an amazing husband who are really on the edge.

They can't handle another financial emergency, another health issue. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, let's go to Lucy who's in Atlanta.

All right, Lucy.

>> Hi, Jade. Hi, John. How are y'all >> doing? Great. >> Good. It's nice to talk with y'all. I'm very honored to speak with you. I grew up in Murphreey'sboro, Tennessee, right down the road from y'all. and we took a Ramsay course my senior year of high school. Got away from it a little bit.

Came back here recently about three months ago and started listening to the um to the show and I me and my husband

we got married about a year and a half ago. Both brought some credit card debt into the relationship and ended up paying that off as of yesterday. Good.

>> Um so we paid off about 7,000 and um so

now we're on baby step three. obviously saving for 3 to six months of expenses, but I kind of wanted to know, I had mentioned this to my dad and he had said that it would be a good idea to reach out to y'all and see what you think. Um, once we save up for that 3 to 6 months of emergency fund, would you recommend

saving even more just in case anything happens like with our roof? I know that's technically what the emergency fund is for. Yeah. Or even putting stuff aside for travel fun items.

>> Okay, so yeah, we're talking about two different things. I love the question.

Um, yeah, after baby step three, so the purpose of baby step three, let's just re reiterate, is for emergencies. It is an a fully funded emergency fund and we

suggest 3 to 6 months. Now, whether you do three or six months is largely dependent on personal factors. So, if you're a single person with one income and maybe you have a a health issue that flares up every couple years, you want six months, right? You want more.

You want to make sure you can cover your deductible, all of that. Uh if you're a family, maybe you're a family and you're dink and you both have a high income, you have stable jobs, you're healthy people, maybe you opt for three months, right? So it's up to you depending on those sorts of factors. In today's world, I'm not going to lie, for most people, I'm like just go on ahead and do six months.

Um I just feel like >> we like that security the way the world is now. I don't know. Um so once you get that six months, Lucy, that's really all you need.

syncing fund areas, whether it be like you said, we know we need a new roof, we know that's coming. If you know something's coming, it's not an emergency yet. So, yeah, you need to save up. Um if you know you want to purchase uh you know, upgrade your car or you know that you're putting a down payment on a house, right?

So, those are those are syncing funds. And just a reiteration, maintenance and known maintenance, John, is not an emergency. You know, your car is going to need new tires. Save up for it.

You know, if you have a a a leak and you see it starting to form and you know, like, hey, I'm not going to run this through insurance. We're just going to pay for it. Save up for it. That's not an emergency.

You knew you see it coming. You know it's coming. Uh so that's just a little sidebar there. But yeah, >> the ex the thing the thing that happened to me and my wife is we had to replace the roof without thinking we were going to have to >> and then of course that's when the air conditioner went out.

Right. >> Right. So we were able to save up for the roof issue and we had an emergency fund for the air conditioner. It and if we had just tried to play it out be like just pretend it's an we'll wait till it's an emergency.

>> Yeah. >> It you you'll they'll double and triple up on you. >> And now my screen said you never mentioned this. My screen said when can we open fun accounts while working the baby steps.

You didn't mention anything about that. So, let me just hit that right quick. Uh, yeah, after baby step three is when it's time to start having some fun again.

[Music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

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All right, the allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just

our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features uh to help you make faster progress with your money. Uh as a matter of fact, the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Matter of fact, we've gotten some calls through here, John, already of people saying, "Hey guys, I'm I'm in the allnew Every Dollar and I've already found, you know, x amount of margin and I'm putting it towards my debt." And so I think that's really exciting to hear.

But you can start today uh at every uh you can start your every dollar today for free. Uh you can get in the app store or at Google Play.

So, it just takes a few minutes, give them the information, then it's going to spit back, hey, based on what you told us, here's the amount of money that we can find you. And I'm telling you, there is money hiding in plain sight in your budget. and in your finances. You just needed somebody else to look at it.

And so it'll look at it, spit back and say, "Hey, we found you x amount of thousands of dollars. Here's what you and then it'll tell you, here's what you need to do to get it." And so then you can say, "Do I want to do what it's telling me to do, or do I not want to do what it's telling me to do?" And so you go through the recommendations it gives you. And then you can say, "Hey, I agree. Maybe I agree to these, but I don't agree to those." And you check the boxes.

And then it'll say, "Okay, based on the ones you agree to now, here's how much money you'll have." And it'll keep walking with you as you do what it's teaching you to do.

>> But you don't want me there. But it's like having you or Dave or George, somebody. That's what they're talking about. But yes, it's pretty amazing.

>> It's pretty awesome. So, if you have if you don't know, now you know. All right, we got Eric who's in Knoxville, Tennessee, right down the road. What's up, Eric? >> Hey, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You got it, brother. What's up? Um, my question is, well, I'm getting I'm 19 years old and I'm getting married next year. >> Congratulations, man.

>> Thank you. And I feel like I've always been generally pretty smart with my money. I've never had to take out money for anything. I paid for my car in cash and um I always g I grew up on 21 acres

with my parents and I've uh saved up

enough money that I was able to build my own mini home at the bottom of the property. >> Dude, way to go, man. I paid paid cash for that and everything. >> What? >> But I'm still in school.

>> Hold on. You're just blown by this. You are in a better shape than most people in the country.

>> It's incredible, dude. Who? And I know that sounds silly. Like you got to paid for a car. You got to paid for a place to live, >> right? That's amazing. >> Yes, sir. >> Who taught you this?

>> Uh my parents. And I've always I mean I've been watching Dave Ramsey since I was 12, 13.

>> Lots of people watch, but very few people live it like you are, man. Well done, brother. That's cool.

>> So, how can we help?

>> Well, my question is, I know later down the road, it's just, you know, 500 square f feet, really small. I know later down the road, probably five, four or five years, I'm going to want to be able to buy a house, but um me and my

fiance, we have no form of credit coming in at all. >> Good. >> We've never had loans on anything.

>> Fantastic. The only the only loans we'll even be taking into the marriage is she's about to graduate graduate nursing school. So, we'll have um about 15k in

student loans. >> Okay. >> And I'm hoping to have that paid off in the first year. >> Mhm. >> Um I'm still in school, so I'm just working part-time. So, I'm working as a pest control technician part-time.

>> Okay. Good. >> So, I'm only making about 30K.

>> Okay. >> And she has a job lined up making about 75K when she graduates. So our first year of marriage take home should be about 100k, >> right? >> But um my question is just when I want to, you know, take that next step and actually build a house and build a family. Um is there something we should be doing to build credit?

>> No. Um but I do want to address that. So

there's a couple areas of this I I do want to address. I agree with John. I think that you're doing a fabulous job, but I also want to say there's no rush.

So that is the if you can embrace that

then you're going to be home free. Um

there's a lot of times John this rush is like I get married then I got to get the house then I got to do it's like you're trying to like check boxes really fast and you've got so much time Eric and you're in such a good position. I don't want you in such a rush that you start going back on all of the things that got you where you are today which is you I don't borrow money and I'm not interested in building this credit score. Right? Those are all these things that you've done and you've gotten great results, right?

You've the fruit of that is amazing. So, just remind yourself the fruit is the proof, right? The fruit of what you've been doing is the proof that it's been working for you. So, don't go back on it.

Now, here's the thing. Let's talk about the no credit score thing because you're right. When you guys get married, you're not going to have a zero credit score because you've got this student loan open here. And so until you guys get that paid off, get that account closed, and then it's going to take another six to eight months for your score to drop away or for your wife's score to drop away, um, yeah, it'll be tough for you to buy a house with a low credit score.

>> Does that make sense? So having a low credit score is not going to help you out, but once you pay it off and you have a no credit score, you will be able to do that.

That's who I have my mortgage with.

John, I'm pretty sure when you had a mortgage, that's when you had who you had it with. >> My credit score um was zero. It it was non-existent. None.

And they just do a process called manual underwriting. And that's the way they've done it for a jillion years before they started turning us all into algorithms. And that just means I had to send them a letter from my employer. I had to send them a tax return.

I had to send them proof of employment.

He has always paid his bills on time.

Nobrainer. Here you go.

Gotcha. >> Does that make sense? >> Here. Here's here's I'm glad you're asking this question. Here's what a credit score is. It is not or let me say what it's not. It is not an indicator of your wealth, how much wealth you have.

It's not an indicator of how well you're doing financially. It simply is a dating

score for how well you've dated in the past. Except it's not asking about girls you've dated. It's asking about banks you've dated.

So, if I gave you $5 million right now, your credit score would still be zero.

>> That's a shame. >> It has nothing to do with your wealth.

It has everything to do with, have you borrowed money from a car dealership once and you paid them back? Okay, we'll give you some points for that. Did you one time borrow from somebody else? It's just a report card for how well you've managed debt in the past.

And so far you've been a dude that just doesn't play that game. >> And they can't get the system can't get its hooks in you. And so it says, "Well, you got to have this number otherwise you're not a wealthy person." It's not true. It's just not true.

Jade, I love what you said, brother. Listen, >> y'all come home withundred what was 110,000? Yep. 110 grand.

>> So let's say after taxes, y'all are holding $60,000 next year. In the first

three months, you should pay off this entire student loan. be done with it. >> Mhm. >> Then you're all going to have $45,000.

If y'all can eat light, y'all have no bills, right? Or very very minimal bills

um other than like a cell phone bill and a small light bill or whatever. If y'all could stay in this house for two years, y'all could literally have >> I don't know 75 $85,000 in cash. That's

right. When y'all decide to move out, >> would that be fun to live in 500 feet for two with two people? No. But dude, if y'all wait, it's like we're going to wait till we can drink legally.

>> Sure. the day we can buy a beer in a restaurant, we are going to go buy a house. Y'all will be able to put 80 grand down or more, 100 grand down.

>> And let's not forget, I mean, there's always the option to rent. Let's say you do start hating each other's face and

500 ft, right? Like that could happen and you're like, man, we got to get out of here. Just know again, pump the brakes. You don't have to buy a house tomorrow. You can always go rent a two-bedroom apartment, right? And then you can still save up money like uh like John is saying. So, you have options. In

no way are these people like painted into a corner. They've got so much time, so many options, so little debt.

>> People always ask me, "What would you go tell your 18, 21year-old self?" And I often say nothing cuz that guy was an idiot. Wouldn't listen to anybody. But if I could get one message through to him, it would be slow down. >> Yeah.

>> Slow down. Relax. >> I hear that. >> And I was so amped about having a car and having a place and having slow down, man.

>> Instead of saying like in this in this guy's case, >> just put a date on the calendar. When we are 22, we're going to buy a house. Let's see how much cash we could have in the bank by 22. Let's see if we can live in a way that we have this much money by 22.

>> It will change everything in your life moving forward.

>> 100%. Oh, so true. All right. Hail Mary.

If you could go back and change one thing you did when you were 19.

>> What is it? >> 19. >> Well, he's 19. That's why I picked 19.

Like, if you could go >> I'll say 21. I left and I drove an 88 TEL easy hatchback that was the size of a small wheelbarrow through college. So, I graduated with my student loan debt and the first thing I did is went and bought the biggest truck I could find.

And so, I my first year out of college, I almost doubled or tripled my debt.

>> Holy smokes. All right. Yeah, that's a big one. >> What about you? >> Um, I straightened my hair instead of

leaving it curly. Mine wasn't as big of a deal as yours.

>> I ruined my financial future. Like, I ruined a photo. >> I got a relaxer. I ruined

[Music] >> Keep hanging out with us. There's more show to come.

[Music]

[Music] All right, welcome back to the Ramsay Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, continuing to take calls about your life and your money. Again, if you were wondering how can I call that that show, Jade or John, uh the number is 8888255225.

No worries if you don't get on the line, you can leave a message and we'll still schedule your call for another time. All right, Hattie is in St. Louis, Missouri.

Hattie, how can we help today?

>> Hi, Jane and John. My question is, um,

my husband and I are just getting ready to purchase our first home, and I keep

hearing about doing a line of credit, a $10,000,

$10,000 line of credit to make a bulk payment and then putting your paychecks

into that and paying all your bills out of that to build $10,000 up. Again,

>> you've got to do me a favor. Do me a huge favor. >> My mind just exploded. Please delete Instagram off your phone for 60 days.

>> Okay, >> just get off. Just get off.

>> Okay, >> for real, just get off. >> I can I can do that. It's Facebook actually, but I can do that.

>> Whichever one it is for 60 days and then I want you to to solve for one thing and one thing only. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Peace.

>> Okay. >> Peace.

Ah, I was just talking to my one of my

oldest best friends on the planet yesterday. Okay, this is an honest conversation and I was asking him a question about, hey, if I move this here and I move this over here and I pay this here and he said, hey, you're doing a

whole bunch of work for like 1.8%.

And he said, you're the guy who tells me you solve for peace, not for arbitrage.

And I was like, I'm getting off the phone now. You're right.

>> Okay. >> I was going to move it to this account because this one's got 3.4 four and since interest rates just dropped, what if I moved it over to this one? And he's like, "Bro, relax." And then he did a quick calculation. He's like, "You're doing all this for like $70. Like, go enjoy your life." And he was right.

>> Yeah. I have accounting background. So, I was like, "Well, what does this number actually crash?" And I'm like, "Okay, this works kind of, but does it really?" And I just wanted to hear somebody else say, "It's okay. Just make double payments.

You'll be just fine. >> Make triple, quadruple payments. Make stupid amounts of payments." But like Jade and I will both tell you the be like we can tell you what we do in our house. >> Yeah.

>> Just make extra payments. >> And make extra payments. >> Tada.

>> Mhm. >> How long have you been married? >> Make sure um 23 years.

>> And you y'all are buying your first house. >> Yeah. We had some health conditions and I um >> I just had a brain tumor in 2020. So that set us back a little bit. Wow. How are you now? >> We pay off. I'm great. Um, well, I have MS, so I'm disabled from that, so I

can't work, but it's only his income, so I get really creative with finances.

>> I love that. >> Okay, so you know this as well as I do that stress is a is a multiplier of MS symptoms,

right? >> Yes. >> What if you just solved for peace?

>> Yeah, it's ex Exactly. If you just took out one mortgage, made one payment, and then you spent the rest of your time focusing on things you love and have fun with. >> Well, yeah, exactly. We just want to have the house pay for by the time that we're both 60.

>> Done. >> The shortest distance is Is this still true? The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. >> I've heard there was somebody I need to go look in that.

I heard cuz my track coach always told me that, but >> I know, but sometimes I feel like there is a shortcut. In this case, let's pretend like that still holds cuz I think it does. Uh don't do all the loop-de-loop, okay?

I can tell. Like you said, you've got the background. Use your powers for simplicity. Use your powers for good.

>> Or let me let me let me say this. Can I can I take this call way too deep? Way deeper than you're asking it to.

>> Yeah, go for it. >> I spent my career working with folks who um had special needs of some shape, form, or fashion. >> Yeah. And one of the biggest metas that I got from working with those people over time was a fear that they were going to be a burden on other people >> or that I needed to contribute in some way on top of my my extra what I'm doing

for the for my friend, my family, my community, whatever. >> And so I I don't want to I don't want to

>> paint a picture, right? But I don't want you sitting at home thinking I'm a net drain on this house. But if I figure out some way to escalate our mortgage payments that then I've proven that I'm worth being here,

>> right? >> I want you to help simplify the chaos in

the house and be an agent of peace in your home. And your husband's the luckiest man who's ever walked the earth. >> I love that. Thank you.

>> Is that fair? >> Yeah, he'll tell you that, too. Well, I know he will, but you don't believe it unless you come up with a secret plan to pay off the mortgage. Like, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Just just uh take his word for it.

You're pretty amazing. You're pretty amazing. I I And Jade, I've heard this I've heard this song and dance on the internet. It's like, all right, this is what you do. >> Yeah.

>> I don't know. I'm not a dumb guy. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I I I think I can figure most stuff out.

And usually I'm like, you lost me at step 17. I'm just going to make a double payment and go on with my day. >> Yeah. I mean, let's let's run this out for the folks who might be listening for the first time, John.

So, obviously, we do like our countercultural take on mortgages is first off, if there's a world where you can just stack up some money and pay cash all day, baby, all day. Like, that's we're going to >> Yeah. People are like, "No, I'm going to take a mortgage for tax savings, that's the literally the dumbest, >> man. If you have the money or you live in, you know, >> I'm going to pay $100,000 of interest so I can get $10,000 in tax savings." >> Yeah.

Don't do it. If you can get cash and there's somewhere in, I don't know, >> Kansas where you can still find a $200,000 house and you can pay, get it, right? Then the next level is, hey, in a world where everybody's getting 30-year mortgages, we're always going to suggest a 15-year mortgage. And at the base of that is, well, you'll get a better interest rate, but the other base of it is you're going to pay it off 15 years sooner if you just pay the payment, right?

>> Everyone says, I'm going to get a 30. I'll just I'll just pay it like it's a 15. You won't. There's always going to be something that pops up instead.

And so we're like, "Hey, set it for set the dial for like you can't screw this up." So 15 years is what we're going to suggest. And even if you never make an extra mortgage payment, you're still paying it off 15 years earlier, which is giving you another 15 years that you can invest more to build wealth, right? For your legacy, for retirement, you know, to buy that restaurant you want to buy, whatever that thing is. So 15 years is what we're talking about now.

We're always saying, "Hey, this the the the payoff of the mortgage lies in baby step six." So, it's after you've paid off your debt. It's after you've saved up an emergency fund. It's you've been a you've been investing 15% of your income all the while. You've put a little bit aside for your kids college.

And now, after all that's kind of rolling, now we're saying, "Hey, you know, maybe I have a little extra change I can throw over to this mortgage. I make the payment and maybe I pay another half payment or maybe twice a year I double the payment." Whatever that rhythm looks like, it's just about you being intentional. You don't have to get intense about it, but just being intentional about saying, "I'm going to put extra money on my mortgage." And there's some really crazy arithmetic out there that if you just make one extra payment a year, like the quickness that >> seven years off or something, a 30-year mortgage or something, >> it doesn't take a whole lot um in order to really shave that 15 years down.

And John, on this show, we find that if people follow the baby steps, no matter what point you lock in, if you actually lock into the baby steps, most people have their mortgage paid off in like 10 to 12, like >> it's like Yeah. So, >> and by the way, people always ask, "Hey, is it okay if we get hyper intentional about we've had the mortgage for a while?" >> Yeah. If you got two or three years left on it and you say, "We're going to go to baby step one. We're going to try to h it and you and your and your spouse lock arms, go knock it out.

>> Go do it. get it done. >> Yeah. And then on the flip side of that, if you're like and you're like, "Hey, you know, I I all my life I had to fight and I finally just got out of debt and I'm not ready to put double payments on." That's also your prerogative and nobody's going to be mad at you.

The point is, you started in the best possible spot, which is a 15-year mortgage that was no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

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All right, we're going to go back to the phone lines, but before we do, >> I didn't say who was hosting today. I probably should. It's you and it's me, >> John and Jade. >> John and Jade. So, now you know, just in case you were wondering, uh, John, you're kind of like on the the mental wellness tip for anybody who doesn't know. You're everywhere, so everybody knows. >> No, they don't. >> I I believe that they do. And then I am

your money expert for today. So, that's how this thing works. Two people, two chairs. All right, let's go to Nicole in Denver, Colorado. What's up, Nicole?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, my husband and I just got married and we both want to have children, but now we have to adopt or preferably get a surrogate. We have some debt, we have some savings, and my husband is about to start a business. >> So, we we really want to prioritize this because of our ages. I'm factoring us in like us needing some extended time to have kids. And both of these options are expensive. >> My question is, how do we fit a baby into the baby steps?

>> Oh, I love this question. How old are you, by the way?

>> I'm 30. He's 34.

>> Okay. Um, so if you were calling in and

you were like, "Hey, we're thinking we're going to get pregnant the oldfashioned way." I would have just said, "Yeah, to tomorrow, whenever you're ready." Right? I'm never going to tell somebody they have to, you know, wait till they're out of debt to have a baby. I'm never going to say you have to have this financial echelon accomplished before you can start a family. I would never tell you that.

Now, it is your own personal choice. I can tell you my husband and I, we were like, ah, we're going to pay off our debt, then we're going to start a family. That was a personal choice. I don't think anybody else has to make that choice.

your case it doesn't change my answer but there are some considerations because in your case yeah it's going to cost a pretty penny. How much does it cost to do surrogacy in the 2025 world?

>> There's a huge range at first 50 to 100 grand. Huh? >> Some more than that double it 90 to 200,000 agency fees surrogacy compensation medical expenses might need multiple rounds of IVS. Um, and then for

adoption, if you're working with an agency, somewhere between 30 and 60,000. So, I

mean, the pragmatic answer is adopt instead of do a surrogate. But I just I don't know how to even start saving up for this. >> Okay. Um, no matter what we go,

>> what's your income? >> Right now, I'm in school. Um, I'm a student for another six months. I have a part-time job.

I earn about $2,500 a month. My husband gets about $7,000 a month. >> Okay, good. >> And a third of that is an untaxed disability for being a veteran.

So, it's helpful. >> I I I guess and Jade pushed back on me here. Um adopted kids one of the most amazing things. By the way, that 30 to 50 of the private private adoption, there's tax rebates, there's there's local support, sometimes there's business support.

So, I would check into all of those different things.

>> Oh, wow. >> And you can >> Oh, that's good to know. >> You can do um but that was after tax breaks and and dude, who knows what tax looks cuts and breaks look like now, whether they're bigger or smaller, who knows? But it's worth to find all that out and there was some upfront costs that he got reimbured for, etc.

But that's just that's just a one buddy of mine. Um so I'm a huge fan of it.

health insurance or you didn't have health insurance, you're there's a there's not I want to say fixed cost because there's medical conditions, there's niku, there's all kind of other things that can happen, but inside of a bell curve often there's

a $5,000 deductible or a $10,000

deductible or a hey, we want to cash pay this thing and this is what it's going to cost. when you get into 90 to $200,000 that to me feels like we have to do some significant planning >> because that is that's I mean that is a that's a that's a graduate degree or that's a home in certain places, right?

That that's a huge chunk of money and I

would feel irresponsible to say, "Yep, it doesn't matter. You're starting a family. Just go let it rip." Um because that's a ton of debt to carry into on

top of your student loans. >> What I'm calling you guys is to if we're doing you know highest cost scenario if we do do surrogacy >> just help me out. How do I even start this process? It might not be that expensive but worst case >> it's a math problem right?

>> Yeah I mean it's a math problem and I'm I'm going to make it super clear. I would never recommend any kind of debt for this. I I mean, okay, >> you know, you you're going to do what you're going to do, but Jade didn't tell you to go into debt for for a family.

be because there's a risk of here,

right? There's no guarantee on any end of this spectrum. And to John's point, when you get into numbers like 200,000, 100,000, that is insult on top of

injury. >> Yeah. >> If this doesn't go the way that we want, right? And sometimes in life, things don't go the way we want.

Although, I'm praying that it does for you. So you you see what I'm saying, right? I just want you to I don't have to explain the risk to you. >> Well, and and there's the other side of it is again I've got a close friend who had a really traumatic pregnancy and there was NICU stays and ICU stays and God knows what those bills are going to end up being.

>> Yeah.

This is one where we planning out the door. We know this is going to be 100 grand or 150 grand.

>> So real steps like let's pretend, hey,

uh 50,000 is what we need. that's kind of somewhere in the middle of the adoption realm there. And so, yeah, I would treat it like in many ways I would treat it like the debt snowball, right?

You're paying minimum payments on all your normal debt, but all the extra is going to your smallest debt. In this case, it's this adoption bill. So, after

all your minimums are met, now we're using our margin to stack up $50,000 as quickly as possible. And what I would do is I would say, "Okay, I'm plug I'm starting up my every dollar budget. got everything in here and I'm seeing here's the margin that we have every single month. So, let's pretend it's $3,000. I got $3,000 of margin that's going and I'm going to keep stacking that up until I hit 50K, right? Run those numbers out.

See how long it's going to take. And if at any point you go, "Hey, that's longer than I want. What can we do to make that go faster?" Income is income is the issue. So, we say, "Okay, can we get extra jobs? Can somebody drive Uber? Can somebody pick up extra shifts?" That sort of thing. So, in that way, um, you

can kind of control it, but at the same time, you'll probably hit a point where it's like, this is as fast as we can go, and you just kind of have to ride that train until it's done.

>> I love it. All right. Thank you so much.

>> Yeah, really great call. Thanks for the call. That's, you know, John, that's

I actually got that call a couple of days ago, and it's true. You know, when Sam and I were in debt, we had almost half a million dollars of debt. We were young, uh, 23 years old, and I I I

remember thinking I'd rather wait. And plus, I wasn't sure if I want a family yet anyway. So, I was like, let's just wait. He wanted to wait. Cuz it was just eating our lunch. Literally, >> it's chaos and anxiousness all in your house. >> And so, for us, there was we had just made the decision and said, "Hey, we're going to clean up this mess and then we'll feel great about, you know, having a family." Plus, you know, and I again,

this is I'm not saying anybody else has to make this choice, but I kind of had this clear picture of this is the life I want to be able to provide. Um, and so that was kind of like a guiding light for us. I was like, I don't want to feel like I have to work. I I want to feel like I'm working cuz I want to work if I'm not going to stay home with these kids. Like, I wanted as many options, not just for us, but for the kids, too.

So, that was our choice. And yeah, I ended up having kids later in life. That was a choice we made. But I remember the years that my wife and I were trying to have kids and it wasn't happening. And then I sat down with somebody. We went to the meeting about adoption and private versus public and all those things. And I remember my my mind

shifting to I'm owed this. I deserve

this. >> Yeah. >> And it gave it it it was giving me a pass. I'm just going to go borrow on whatever this costs because I I want a family. Mhm. >> And it was this I like I remember thinking, do I want to add cuz this is when I still owed a jillion dollars.

>> Do I want to add that burden to a guy that's already pretty spun out um

because of all this money I'm carrying that I owe people, >> right? >> And I remember very much feeling though that like math doesn't apply to me here.

Mh. >> This hurts and I can I want to have a family and I want to be able to like give a kid a like all that stuff was so good and right and yet >> math doesn't care. It's still it's it's going to be you're going to have $200,000 mortgage on a on a on an adoption, right? Or on a surrogacy or whatever.

>> And so there is something about >> I would never tell somebody don't have kids if you owe money, right? Especially if you got a traditional um >> health insurance, yada yada yada. But if you're going to go make a 30, 40, $50,000, you can put that much money on the table, I want you holding that check. Um cuz otherwise you are setting yourself up for all kind of additional chaos.

>> Um in addition to having a kid and all the heartbreak and joy and all that comes with that.

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[Music] All

right, you're listening to the Ramsay Show. Hey, don't just set goals in 2026.

I want you to actually learn how to reach them for once in your life, and we're going to help you do that. The 2026 Ramsey goal planner is here, guys, and it's packed with monthly content from myself, from Rachel Cruz, from Dr.

John Deloney sitting right next to me, and it's all there to help you stay on track with your money, with your faith, with your relationships, all of it. And finally, for the first time, you can actually follow through on your goals.

It's so helpful. Now, I'm going to tell you the real deal. Every single year, we sell out of these. All right? So, >> they're already gone. >> Listen, >> there can't be that many left.

>> There can't be. So the point is >> this is not a sales pitch. This is like them sitting being like, "Hey, we have like almost like they cut off product benefit. Nobody in the building can buy them. Yeah, we can't even there's only a few left and it's just for just for just for our fans. >> The only way I'll get one is if one of you send me yours cuz I didn't even get one." But the point is they might be

already gone. So if you were thinking of getting one, go on there now and make sure you can get one. Uh they're $49.97

at ramiesolutions.com/store.

uh or if you're watching on YouTube or the podcast. You can just click the link in the description. Now, I'm going to tell you straight up. I was making a joke before. I always get a couple of these and I send them as gifts. It's on my gift list every year to send to other people and everybody loves it because it's so helpful. And so, yeah, get involved. All right. Next, we have Sue from Chicago, Illinois. Shy Town. What's up? What's going on, Sue?

>> Hi. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. I'm blessed to be able to speak to you guys and to listen to you guys every single day. >> Thank you so much. What's up?

>> I'm I'm stuck. Um I'm 54 years old and

uh married uh with a child and I just

found out that my husband no longer has

savings uh no longer has the college account for our child because he's gambling and there's more infidelity. I just found out about Um, so there's that. Uh, I just started

a job, thank goodness, because I kind of I had a feeling like something was up.

And my job, uh, will be able to pay in

the future for the success that I want

with our family, but I'm kind of at a

T-section. Um, the the >> the big question here is, are you do you want to stay in this marriage? Uh um

no. And I hate saying that. I we had an

issue before where things were questionable and um he said he wanted to

reconcile and this was years ago and I had a huge uh cancer scare. I am cancer free. It's great. It's wonderful. Um he

hid it really well since then.

um I don't feel for my for my peace and

my daughter's peace moving on in her life um that it's safe

>> to stay in this marriage. So I think answering well there's two two things.

One is you are right to be fearful about

if there's sexual infidelity you're right to be worried about the betrayal worried about your health worried about like the values of your marriage being swiped out from underneath you. Right?

>> The financial infidelity. You waking up one day and realizing y'all have no safety net.

>> That's a real harrowing fear also. And

so whether you choose to stay in this marriage and heal it or um and and and

y'all have to rebuild this thing from the ground up because it doesn't exist anymore as it was, um you still have to

take the steps to go open your checking account and deposit money in your account and begin to have some sort of financial safety because this person is very unsafe and very reckless.

>> Yeah, I I did that with my new job.

>> Good. >> Yeah. So, but that now has been paying for groceries, >> right? >> And school fees. And I don't I I pennies

pennies putting it aside could possibly, you know, eventually get a down payment for >> that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. What?

You're doing a very natural thing, but I want to slow you down. You're solving for seven steps down the road. I need you to solve for step one, which is I need to get me and my daughter into a safe place.

>> Yeah. >> Exhale. Next step. Okay.

>> I want us to make sure we have um the apartment that we've moved into or that he's moved into. Can we afford this house and we have to sell it?

>> Do I have an Do I have attorneys fees?

>> We we rent. We rent. We don't even have a host. So, am I on that lease? So, if I go get an apartment, a one-bedroom apartment for me and my daughter for the next 18 months because that's what I can afford right now. >> Am I on that lease? And is he going to quit paying and then it's going to blow up my world? Right. So, it's it's getting those very basic things. Four

walls. Do I have a place to live? Do I got food? Do I have utilities? Do I have water and heat? And do I have transportation to get to and from my job? >> Okay, >> that's what we're solving for right now.

You'll solve for what's my retirement going to be? What's a pension? What do I All of that is a problem for future you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And and anxiety is taking future stuff

and dragging it into the present and trying to solve it in the present. Don't do that. You got enough trouble right now as the as as you experience and as the Bible says, you got enough trouble today. Let's deal with today.

>> If you are done with this marriage, I want you to push pause and call an attorney.

>> Okay? >> Okay. And they will guide you. They they'll have not thousands, but a list of questions, thoughts, ideas, and they will walk you through step by step, and you won't feel so alone. If you want to try to save this marriage and reconcile, you got to call a therapist today, a licensed therapist who will walk with you. It's just too much. Your whole world exploded, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> it did. It really did. And I'm I'm

more worried about my daughter. >> Yep. >> How old is your daughter?

>> She's a junior in high school.

>> Yeah. But she's now been unfortunately

it's blown up in her face and she's very aware of everything that has happened.

>> All right. Let me let me tell you the greatest gift you can give her.

>> Yeah. >> Take her out to a diner.

>> In fact, tell her we're skipping school this morning. Take her out to a diner so she'll know it's a special moment.

>> And I want you to look her in the eye and say, >> um, I'm not going to talk bad about your dad. I'm not going to run him down. You're not going to talk crap. You're not going to swear at him about him. cuz that's her dad, too. And she knows in her body half of her is him. So, if he sucks, then half of her, right? But I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm going to tell you I'm scared.

>> Yeah. >> I'm going to tell you I'm heartbroken.

And I, your mom, in working to keep you

and me safe.

>> And so, you're going to give her this gift. You're going to a give her the gift that she's not crazy. Because a lot of parents try to just say, "I don't want the kids to know. I don't want them to I want to hide my my tears. I want to hide everything." And what it does is it makes your kids feel nuts because their insides are are melting. So it's important for her to see, oh, mom's a person, too. If she's sad, I kept permission to be sad.

>> Yeah. I've never hidden anything for her. Even when I got the cancer, she painted pink polka dots on my head when uh >> Amazing. >> When it was growing back, because that's what she said what would happen when my hair grew back. >> And the next plan, the next important thing for her is to know my mom has a plan. I have a job. I have my own checking account. I'm gonna we're gonna it your college plans may have completely changed, but I'm gonna be right next to you walking with you.

>> Okay. >> Right. And it's letting her know you're not on your own, and her job isn't to take care of you. Okay.

>> Okay. 100%. >> That's a that's that will be a blessing to her for you to to say, "I'm hurting and here's my plan."

>> Thank you. >> Okay. Um I would also recommend this,

and this is like I don't feel like I want want you to give you another thing to worry about. I want you to go pull your credit report from all three credit bureaus today.

>> Yes. >> And I want you to freeze your credit.

>> Well, it is. >> Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good.

>> That as soon as I found out.

>> Excellent. Excellent. >> Very smart. >> Excellent. What's your husband doing right now?

>> Is he running, hiding? Is he saying here? How'd you find out?

Uh, I just, well, I started I got the

Ramsay become a millionaire and start I just started going, "Hey, can we go over the bills because I want to get put all this together and make a budget. I want to make a plan." >> And he started listing off these bills.

I'm like, "Well, what bill is this? What bills?" He goes, "Oh, it's a loan. It's a loan." I go, "It's a loan for what?

>> It's a loan for what?" And he goes, "Well, I have a lifestyle to keep up with." And I'm like, "I I don't understand. like like he's should be getting he's retired and has now a part-time job cuz you know uh >> and it it >> so just it just exploded. Hey um >> it just exploded. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for trusting us with the call. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with Every Dollar.

Um it's the best budgeting app in the world. We're also going to hook you up with Financial Peace University so you and your daughter, if y'all want, y'all can watch these lessons together. And um

I want you to begin using this app for you. Make a budget for you so you know where every dollar is going. cuz right now every dollar is precious. And um if it's time to call an attorney, go call one. If it's time to call a therapist, go call one.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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All right, our question of the day is sponsored by Y Refi. If other lenders won't help with defaulted private student loans, then Yi might be right for you. They offer fixed rate solutions that fit real life. Find out more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Remember, it's not available in all states. >> All right, this question is a good one.

I'm going have to process this out loud.

>> All right, read it. >> And it's funny because I've been wrestling with something about this. >> Oh, really? Okay, I'm excited then.

>> Today's question comes from Gabriel from California. Gabriel writes, "I need advice on whether to take on commission

work for a very popular video game. I would get paid to make 3D digital models for game servers who have the aesthetic that I'm trained in. I developed these skills over the past two years. However, here's my dilemma. I stopped playing video games several months ago due to a conviction to stop playing them and just grow up. >> I've been benefiting from the time away from them to connect with friends, read my Bible, and attend church activities.

Mhm. >> I've actually lost a desire to play video games, but I could make a ton of money with this side hustle. Should I take the opportunity or walk away because I'm afraid I'll be pulled back into that world?

>> So, here's here's where this question is with me. Um, I watch social media

like melting us culturally.

>> Mhm. And yet >> every day I post on it twice a day, >> right? >> You're in my brain right now. >> I I live in it. And so I've had this weird tension with it. And the piece I've come to is if it's a cesspool, if if if it's

constantly sending people negative ne negativity things way to divide people up and whatever, I will I can tell myself I'm going to be someone who puts good out into that world. >> Yeah. And so that's that's where I've landed right now. But I do wrestle with it, right? Um if if they came in and said, "Hey, social media is over. It doesn't exist anymore. That part of our business is over. We're going have to do something else." I would exhale.

>> It would cost me a lot. Right. >> Understood. Yeah. >> But it I would exhale.

>> And so there's a tension there. So this is a little bit different because he's not making his he's not able to put

positivity out into a negative environment. He's going to literally be participating in it, right?

So yes, pardon me. I I don't know. What do you think? What do you think? >> Um I think we can look at this from two arguments. Uh he's I don't think he's

created like a good versus bad argument.

Like video games are bad, therefore I'm not playing them anymore. >> He's like, I found relief being out of that world. >> Yeah. I think he found it more of there's better things I could be doing with my time. This is kind of a drain on me, so I'm not going to do it. Um, so

for him I think it was like productive versus not productive, not necessarily good versus bad. Like if he had said, "Hey, >> I think they're evil, so quit." >> Right? Like I got out of video games cuz the chat's crazy and it's not good for kids and people it's dangerous and like sex trait all these things. Like if he had said that argument, I would have been like, "Dude, it's a moral thing for you. You have to walk away." Um, but since it's more of a personal productivity thing, I would say

any I would I will hold it more loosely, but at the end of the day, I would still say anything that feels like a violation of personal integrity for you, you do have to walk away from. However, I would say this doesn't really feel like a personal integrity thing. It feels more like you're getting older and you're

like, I can't spend time on video games, so I'm not going to. and he's got his lived experience where he spent too much time for too many years on them. But also, and I've I've I've been a I mean,

I've run my mouth about video games for a long time, but I've got buddies who play with their kids. I got buddies who play with kids in college and it keeps them connected and they have fun and they talk trash and those little like it's so it's fun for them, but then they set it down and they go back to their to their regular lives, right?

>> And so, yeah, it comes down to a personal conviction at the end of the day. >> Yeah. Um, it almost feels like, I don't know if this is a good analogy either, somebody who has struggled with alcohol gets an amazing opportunity to make a bunch of money to being a bartender >> and like >> that's a bad idea. >> It It could be, right? But if someone says, "Dude, I don't have any I for six

months it could pay off everything." >> Probably say, "I wouldn't go back in the bar." >> Well, no, because he struggled with it. It was an addiction. I don't think that's a good analogy because one, but he's saying, "I don't want to be pulled back into that world." Uhhuh. I think

that I don't know much about making video games. So, I think it has more to do I

think and correct me if I'm wrong cuz I'm not a gamer. >> I think it has more to do with him than the outsider >> because I don't know if if you're making um uh if you're making models for this, if you actually have to like be in the game and kind of like play it >> play the game and talk about the game.

>> Yeah. So if he has to be in that world in order to create for it, I think that's where more where his struggle is versus I don't want other people playing these games. I don't want other people >> because it's a moral conviction. Yeah. So Gabri, I I would tell Gabriel if sitting here and um thanks to everybody letting us think that out loud. >> Yeah. Right. >> Um I would tell Gabriel,

>> no amount of money is worth your personal peace and your personal integrity. Yep. And so if this is a matter of I feel like this is an integrity issue for me, but I could make some good money in the short term, I would say walk away. >> Yeah, there's other ways you can make money.

>> And the other side of it is if you have just found peace like, man, I love doing other things with my time and good on anyone who wants to play games. It's not for me anymore. And you can go back into that world and make some quick money over six months. Knock your lights out, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you on that. It's uh Yeah, I was just reading back over the question. I'm with you.

If you feel like it's it's pulling you back, don't do it.

And there's always going to be uh

temptations. >> Well, and we get this call from folks who listen to the Ramsay Show. They they buy into the message. They live it their own life, but they sell >> whole life insurance policy or they work at a at a at one of the big the giant banks who take advantage of people. So, >> um and they are faced with this moral dilemma. But I again I think that's more of like the good versus bad argument because we're saying um hey debt it it

is truly like out to get you like it truly is out there to try to scam you, try to try to trap you all those things.

This didn't feel like he didn't mention anything. Now don't get me wrong, I have my own views of video games. I don't want to project that onto him. But if you're a person who if if Gabriel if you're listening to this if you do feel like hey I just think video games

inherently they're trying to track people the the algorithm is there to keep you stuck keep you locked in. I just don't agree with that. Like if you do have a moral stake in it I 100% wouldn't do it because then you're compromising your own >> personal integrity. Man that's a good question. It is a good question and I I I challenge everybody in their life if

your day job at some level conflicts with what you know to be true or what you feel is to be right or true.

>> Um >> it's easy to bomb the job to

>> but there's something about taking personal ownership and saying I can't be a part of this anymore >> or I'm gonna the the building's not on fire. money, being asked to steal money, but I'm going to start looking for a way to transition out of this job into something else. >> Um, I'm going to turn down this opportunity. >> Um, and both of us have gotten opportunities to go speak at a place and like, you know, I'm going to sit this one out.

Like, >> everyone has to make those kind of choices, right? >> Um, but the fact, Gabriel, that you're even asking this question is pretty noble. Good for you. I think so, too.

>> Cuz I think it's so easy to just run for the money, whatever. >> Know what you're Yes. You have to have you have to have your personal moral compass.

different from other people. It's kind of like going back to the drinking thing that you said. Um, some people go to a party, they're like, "Hey, alcohol is just not for me. I don't like who I am when I have a drink." Right? And then the other person could sit right next to you and there's no moral dilemma.

They're not going to act a fool. They're just going to have one or two drinks, go about their business, and it's fine. Right? So, different things affect different people.

>> If I drink, I don't feel good the next day. That's fine. Or I think this is wrong. I think nobody should be doing this. Right? But whatever you bring to it, live it out everywhere.

>> Live it out everywhere. And that's that's the good word.

>> Oh, good. I I liked that one. That was a good one. All right. Since we just took a question that was >> verbal mean me reading >> verbal. Somebody write wrote it in.

>> Let's do another one from social.

>> All the questions are verbal. >> I know. I know that was a hard that was not the right way to say it. Okay. Um let's do this one. This is Sue from Tik Tok. She says, "Why does cancelling a rarelyus card affect someone's credit

rating?

Okay. So, we tell John, we tell people, John, uh, it's time for you to not only

pay off your debt, you need to cancel it. You need to close the account and be done with it, not just pay it off. And so, she's saying, yeah, if you cancel this card, it your your credit score initially is going to go down. That's true.

And that's okay. It's one of the factors that they use to measure your credit score, right? It's how many lines of credit do you have open? Uh, how many how long have you had it open?

What percentage of it are you using? All of that affects your credit score.

But in the long run, if you just close them all and pay them all off, your score is going to roll to zero and you're going to be a person who has a zero credit score. And that's ultimately what we want. Stick around. There's more of the Ramsey Show coming up.

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Hey, welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Uh we're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and your money like we always do at this time. We got Tom in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What's going on, Tom?

>> Hi, John and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. I got a question around term life insurance. Um I'm 65 and um over the

years when we had we have four children.

Over the years, we I would buy life or life insurance, but term life insurance, and then it would, you know, at one time I probably had a million dollars. I'm down to down to one last policy of $250,000.

>> Okay. It has seven years left and the and the annual payment's only $7 I think

$11 a year.

>> Okay. >> And just questioning whether or not I should keep it because I really don't need it and it's just not, you know, it's just my wife and I today. So,

>> I mean, yeah, you're right. The point is that we get to the point where we can kind of self-insure where that nest egg is big enough to where if something happened to you, your wife would be okay. And it sounds like you have that.

>> Yeah. I mean, and yeah, no debt and million, you know, multiple millions of dollars put away. Probably seven or eight million. >> Oh, you're saying that the policy runs out in seven years.

>> It does. In 32, it's done it, but it's only $7 a year. That gets $250,000. Now,

$250,000 is not going to change our life. >> No. >> No. But neither is neither is 70 bucks a month either or 70 bucks a year.

>> Right. Right. >> There's no right or wrong answer on this. If you want to keep it, you can keep it. Cuz like you said, the $711 a year is not changing your life. The $250,000 is not saving your life. I would ask your wife, how does she feel about it? Hey, do you want this extra $250,000 coverage? Does it give you any extra level of peace for me? I could maybe let it go and just have that conversation. I'm If it were me, I'd

probably be like, just keep it around. Let it play out. Um >> but like I said, there's no right or wrong. Yeah, cheap. But yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, that's it. I just um and I know she'd say, you know, she's always had her trust in my my management obviously pay off and she can't believe we're the place that we're in today. So, she just say, "Hey, I don't really care." >> Hey, well, dude, let me be the first to tell you today.

Well done, brother. That's awesome. >> Really good. >> Like the thought that you could pass away tomorrow and your wife's going to be okay.

That to me is the greatest I don't know. Just as a as a husband, that's the greatest feeling I could have that if I if I cashed out tomorrow, my wife and my kids would be okay. That gives me a lot of peace. Call Hey, do me a favor.

Call our friends at Xander. Um, what I know about those dudes is they will tell you the truth and they won't take money from you that they won't they won't try to bill you for money. They'll be honest with you. And they'd be a great person to run this policy by and just cash just run through the numbers for you.

and there it whether it would save you if you just quit paying on it if you can't like they're going to answer all those specific insurance questions so call them. Um they've they've the ones who did my life insurance policy. >> Me too. Me too.

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about life insurance for new new listeners who are like what the heck are they talking about? So here we always we're always going to suggest term life insurance. That's what I carry.

That's what John carries. And you can get it on a you know a 15-year level term, a 20-year level term. And basically the term is just what it says. you are covered during that term of years.

Um, and the level term means the price is not changing. But the point of life insurance is for anybody who depends on your income. So, for instance, uh, I work at my in my home and my husband works, but if I were to pass away, that's a a big chunk of income that's gone. And so, my family has a dependency on that, right?

And same thing with Sam. If Sam were to pass away, we have a dependency on his income. So, we suggest you get 10 to 12 times your income, which a lot of people think, "Oh my gosh, that's a lot of money." Like, that could be in the millions. That's a lot of money.

And it is, but it's about survivorship. It's about the people who are, like I said, dependent on your income long term.

They need to be able to continue living until their life situation changes. Or maybe you're a stay-at-home mom, right?

And you've been staying at home. If you're the spouse in that situation, you want to make sure this mom can continue to stay home. So, you need a nice nest egg in there. That's what it's there for.

Um, I won't get into the whole whole life thing. I feel like that's a different call, a different time for a different day. But, I do want to say term life insurance is a way that you love your family. Well, now I know I hear it now, John.

People are like, "Oh, I have insurance through my job." >> No, you get 10,000 bucks, dude. You have barely enough to cover the cost of a coffin these days. That's it, if that anymore. >> That's right.

That's that could barely cover your funeral and that's it. So, you need more. And trust me, it's not expensive. Like this guy said, he's paying $711 a year.

That's nothing.

>> Yeah. So, get it done. It's so easy.

They'll come to your house and do the medical, you know, they'll draw your blood at your house. It's easy. And then they'll set your term and you'll be set.

So, that's how this works. >> If you're wondering this too, um, my wife has a part-time job. Um,

>> but the vast majority of the income is mine. >> I have a policy on her. It's not near as big as mine. >> Three to four times. >> But if she was to pass away tomorrow,

>> if you've listened to the show for five minutes, you know that my life would be in shambles. Yes. Right. I would have to hire some support and help. That's right. There'd be plane tickets. There would be um parents coming and going.

There would be I need help with I my whole life would fall apart. So, I'd need to hire folks to come back fill that and that money would add up and add up, especially when I'm in a season of grief and my income would drop because I'm on commission, right? So all that say is I got a policy on her.

>> That's such a good point. Yeah. When you have a stay-at-home spouse or a spouse that maybe works part-time or whatever the case, there's still a huge monetary value on what it takes to if you're the the home CEO, right? So you're doing all the shopping and you're planning all the meals and you're taking the kids to school and you're picking the kids up.

Well, who would who would do that if that person left? Do you have to hire a nanny? Would you have to have a babysitter there at the house, you know, six hours a day? That is all cost.

So, please, please, please. Term life insurance is what we're looking for. And what we were talking about earlier with Tom is the idea is that you don't have to pay a premium forever. >> So, he's got millions of dollars.

>> That's right. >> He's now insured. >> He's insured. >> His wife's insured.

>> And that means that whatever pops up, he's got the money that he can carry that risk. Now, the point of insurance is to to transfer risk when we can't afford it, right? And so, when you're walking through the baby steps, you can't you can't carry that risk. So, let the insurance company carry it.

But the hope is that you get to a point, you keep walking through the baby steps where you've got a couple of million dollars stacked up or whatever your nest egg is stacked up to where when you hit a certain point, hey, if somebody passes away, there's enough money on that nest egg that they can draw from, they can cut or you know, if something happens, my medical expenses will be covered as well. like all that stuff is there. So that's how this works. It's just a really good thing to think about from time to time.

We get calls all the time, John, of and it's sad when someone passes away, there was no life insurance, no will, and everything is just in a tail spin.

she looks and I remember one person in particular said, "I have to go to work on Monday. We don't have anything." >> And it was the most harrowing.

It's like, "What do you mean? like they don't have any money, we don't have any insurance, we have nothing. >> You got to figure out >> and I got to figure I got to go I have to get a job now on Monday. We don't have no we have no I mean it was just such a harrowing conversation.

Um and then the other the other I remember one other person in particular said I don't I don't know what to do. I don't know where anything is.

I don't know if we have life insurance policy. It was just a zoo. And I remember being like man like me and my wife that's a big deal for us is where's the forms? Where's the passwords?

Where's everything? >> Um cuz it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. >> Yes. >> And I want I want that to be the last thing she worries about is what do we have and where? H term life insurance, a will, making sure your spouse knows where all the documents are.

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You know, last last segment we were just talking about the importance of term life insurance. We were saying wills, making sure your family knows where all the important documents are. And we actually have an online wills quiz

because you might have been listening to that saying, "Hey, Jade, I don't know.

Do I I'm 18. Do I need a will? Or I'm 21 and single. Do I need a will? or you know, I've been married 50 years, my wife already knows what we're doing. Do I need a will? You need to take the wills quiz is what I'm telling you. Okay, so here are the top questions people have about online wills. Let's talk about it. Number one, the ask, "How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?" Okay, so that's a great question.

And so the answer there is if your estate is worth less than 1 million then getting a will online is probably a really great option for you. So if you're worth less than a million, yeah, probably online will is good. Next one is number two, Jade, what do I need to start my will online? All right, making a will online or not involves a couple of big decisions.

Number one, you need to know like who's going to get my stuff.

helps a lot of things. I'm just saying. >> I remember I gave my wife like this big long like here's how I want my funeral to go. And she was like, "Hey, I'm not doing chores for you. Your your funeral

will be as I planned it." And I'm like, "But I wrote it down and it's in the will." And she's like, "I don't just sue me. Come get me then cuz I don't care." >> But you do you need to sit down and you you need to decide these things. And it's okay if it takes more than one evening or if you get kind of like mentally exhausted and have to come back to it later. just as long as you come back to it later. Now, number three, is an online will legally valid? Great

question. Yes, an online will is legally valid, but not just any online will you

find on the internet is going to legally validate your state. Okay, you want to make sure your online will needs to be made uh to match the laws of your state, the state that you live in. Okay, so that's the important part. Uh, number four, why would I want an online will

versus a traditional one made with a lawyer? Very good question. The truth is, yeah, they're just less expensive and they're more convenient and they take less time to set up. So, you could just pop online, do your thug fizzle, and move on versus trying to set up something with an attorney. Uh, so if you have more questions, you can go to ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. All right, enough of that business. Let's go to Sarah who's in Georgia. Sarah, how can we help today?

>> Hey there, thanks for taking my call.

Um, I I have a question about whether or

not I should take out a home loan or a

heliloc. Um, I bought my grandmother's

house two and a half years ago, and when I bought it, I knew it would need to be renovated, um, like down to the studs.

Um, so that's probably going to cost about $250,000.

>> Gosh. >> Um, yeah, it's going to be expensive.

Um, I'm a in a pretty good financial situation and I've saved up um $75,000

toward that. And so, >> and I've got savings, I've got an emergency fund, um, I've got retirement, all of that squared away. Um, but

do I take out HELOC or a loan, go ahead and reno the house, and then after it's

done, it will be income producing because I can rent out the basement and bring in about $2,000 a month, or do I

wait and continue to save for the next probably four or five years until I have

enough to just pay cash for all the renovations? Mhm. See, here's what I think about in these situations, and I'm going to just play this back to you, and John, cut in.

So, when I hear somebody run out the two sides of like what I could do on the one side, when they're talking about the debt, they're like, I could just get a heliloc. I could get it all done. I could have this income producing property. I could, you know, and it's all these positive positive things.

But then when they talk about the cashway, it's like, well, I could wait five years and then I would just But they're not listing all the pros on that side.

>> there are pros and yeah, it could take longer, but the truth is we didn't mention there would be no risk on your home, which was your grandmother's home, which is clearly a source of great pride and joy for you because you bought it.

So we would eliminate the risk from that. We would allow you to sleep better at night. We would ensure that an asset that's been in your family remains in your family. Like there's a lot of pros on there that you didn't list that are

benefits to doing this thing in cash.

>> How do you where'd you come up with the 200 number?

Um, so I've gotten some estimates from contractor, a general contractor and everything that needs to be done and it is more expensive because essentially

the basement would it will be two full kitchens, one for my living space, one for other living space. >> Yeah, that and that was that was actually my question. Is there a is

there a path where you phase this in

where you completely gut and renovate your kitchen with your $75,000 and you have an amazing beautiful living space and then you exhale for a year or two and then you make a choice down the road. Do I want to go through and completely gut and do this? Because what here here's what I promise will happen.

If you have a heliloc and what you're going to do is you're going to say I want a $200,000 helock against my

against my home. They're going to say, "Well, there's always an overage or whatever. I'm just going to give you 275 and whatever you don't use, that's fine.

I promise it will balloon up because they'll be like, "Well, what about these fixtures? We could get these are nice and it just gets out of control on if you have 75 grand." You see, this is all I have. Um, it just changes how you spend your money. But is there a way you can phase it in?

>> Yeah. Why does it have to be an income property? Why can't it just be a the >> income property later when I have the money to make it an income property? Can you get this awesome kitchen? I'm trying to think of a new of a third way or a fourth way or a fifth way other than I've got to borrow a couple hundred,000

against an old property, which by the way, I think that's probably when they get in the walls, they're going to find all kind of wild stuff.

>> Um, and they get into the basement, they're going to find all kind of structural like that's just what happens on those old homes. Or I can't do anything for five years. I just got to sit here. Is there a middle ground there?

Well, so it needs um new electrical um

and some plumbing updates. And so the thought was in in the long run it would

save money by just doing all that at once versus doing um going in and doing plumbing in one area or fixing electrical in one area or just doing the upstairs and fixing that and then doing the downstairs. >> How much would it actually

uh I I don't know the exact number. Um >> I would want to get that that because I think that's one of those things that we just think, hey, if we just do this all at once, it'll be cheaper.

>> Um >> well, that's a luxury. Let's be honest, that's a luxury for when you have money.

So, let's break this down to a smaller uh we're talking about a big house there. Let's break it down to a smaller denominator that we can talk about it and it'll make more sense. If you had a flat tire and you didn't have any money

and you're like, "Oh man, I have a flat tire. I'm going to go buy a tire. And they said, "Well, you should get all four. You'll get a better deal." >> You'd say, "Well, I can't afford all four.

>> I've got enough for one tire. >> I'm just going to get the new tire that I need." >> And suddenly it makes a lot of sense cuz it's like, why would they why would I buy four tires I can't afford? I don't even really need the four the third, you know, the other three. I just need the one.

And so when we put it like that, you can It's the same thing with this house. You can't afford It doesn't matter if it's a better deal to do it all at once. You can't afford it. And Sarah, here's the other side.

>> man. >> Their in-laws get sick like or co shuts

everything like this show wouldn't exist if everybody's plans always worked. And so we have the misfortune and the blessing of our whole job consists of

people had this great plan. It's just going to be 36 months. It's just going to be four years and it something blows up. And that's why man, if you don't owe anybody any money and you put 75 grand on the table, you get a brand new kitchen.

They do the wiring and they do just the plumbing in that area and then something happens, you can take two years off and you don't have this looming, hey, they're going to take our house from us because we put it on the block.

take risk off the table. >> And I want to do $250,000 of work on my

house. I do too. >> And I still got to wait and and do it little by little. Okay. So

[Music]

all right, welcome back to the show.

We've got Brian who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Brian.

>> Hey, Jade. Hey, um John, thanks for for

taking my call. >> Yeah, you bet. >> So, I'm in my late 20s. Um I'm on baby steps four and six. Um and I have around

$40,000 that I want to spend on a car

and I'm wondering if it makes financial difference whether I choose a new or used car for the same amount.

>> Interesting. Yeah. Um >> how much you make?

>> Around 200,000. Oh, so you got you got some cash. What do you do for a living, dude? >> I'm actually, funny enough, I'm in sales, financial advice, things like that. >> Well played, man. Excellent.

>> So, you how old are you?

>> 28. >> 28. And you've got a great income.

Killing it. What's your I mean, what do you have in retirement? What's your nest egg?

>> Uh, so total nest egg is around 830,000.

>> Okay. >> 310,000 is in retirement. Um, I've got

357 in taxable assets.

>> Okay. >> 30,000 cash, 13,000 HSA, and 120,000 on

the home that I purchased last year.

>> Okay. So, you're a millionaire.

>> No, it's 830 total.

>> Oh, okay. I thought you were saying 8:30 was in your retirement.

>> So, you're saying you're saying the total amount the total amount is 830.

Okay. >> Correct. Uh, so I do think that in this

case if you want to spend the 40,000 it's no big deal. I would spend it on a used vehicle though. >> I would tell me tell me why you don't want to.

>> I don't know. The 26 Rav 4 is looking pretty nice. >> Okay. So if I told you you could get a 25 RAV 4 and somebody turned the key in it and backed it off the lot and drove it right back on and burned 10 grand of that because that because that that's the difference. the moment you buy sign your name on a brand new car, you drive it off the lot, it's worth it's worth last year's car.

>> And that's why we tell folks wait and a million dollar net worth is is is arbitrary. Like Dave just picked that number, but it's it's basically can you walk into your house and set $10,000 on fire in the living room and that's going to be and you're okay with that?

>> You've got a million bucks. It's such a time it would be dumb and you you know nobody would want you to do that but it wouldn't change your life.

>> And so that's that's the difference.

>> Dude, I love Rav 4s. My wife drives a Highlander. I I love them. In fact, she asked me the other day if I could trade that in for a high for a RAV 4, an older one, right? I totally love that car.

It's just what's what is driving off the

lot and immediately losing that equity worth to you?

>> Got it. And I guess would it make sense if I were to wait another year or two and buy used if I really want sorry buy new if I was able to bring it up to a million? >> I did that exact thing recently.

>> Like literally that exact thing. >> Yeah. The the million is a to John's point it's a rule of thumb. It's something that we kind of feel like hey this is the point where to John's point you don't care about. You can take the loss. You can take the hit. You're very very close. I mean >> bro you're you're you're so far ahead of all of humanity. You're doing great man.

Yeah, >> you're doing great. >> If I'm going to advise you to do a used

car if you did a new one, lightning wouldn't strike you. Worst things could happen in your life, but we're just telling you the rule of thumb that we think is kind of that safe point where you can really feel good about it. Like you can feel good about driving off the lot brand new and it's like, hey, I I if

you're a rule follower, it's like I followed the rules and I did this. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's that kind of thing. Do I think it would break you? No, it wouldn't break you at all at all. You wouldn't feel it at you wouldn't feel it. So, take that very contrasting advice.

>> But, but but but you you you put it out there. So, let me ask you what what is waiting six months like what's what's burning a hole in your pocket right now? >> Right.

>> Um my car is getting to the point I drive a used car. It's the first car I had. It's at the point where it's a lot more maintenance. A lot more money is going into it. So, I think it's ready to >> to buy something newer. >> Yeah. I mean, like like I say, like dude, you're doing so well. Um, and if

you think it's going to like the the intellectual exercise or the the discipline of I'm going to put on the calendar four months. I'm just going to I'm going to make myself wait four months. >> Um, and then I'm going to go buy this car. Then that if you think you need that and that'd be good for you long term because you you work in sales, right?

So some years are going to be up, some years aren't. That's the that's the lifestyle. So I'm having a I'm in a good season right now. I'm in a season of blessing.

That's awesome. I'm gonna practice just holding off just because I can, right? That's a good >> It's like somebody sitting a cold plunge.

>> And um I think that'd be an awesome exercise. >> But also if you went out today, you're not again you're not going to be destitute tomorrow. You're going to be fine. But you are going to have just said, "Hey, like Toyota dealership, I want to give y'all 10 grand of my hard-earned money." >> Um really for no reason other than I wanted this right this second.

>> Cuz here's the truth. The truth is, if you said, "Hey, Jade, there's a used car I want to buy that's $50,000." I would have said, "Yeah, go do it >> because you somebody else has already burned the depreciation for you." >> But my point is, the amount is not any

risk to you. It's it it fits your income. It fits your net worth. And so,

that's kind of the way I'm reverse engineering it in my mind. Um, but, you

know, if you want to hit that rule of thumb, that's also great.

>> Here's another game to play. What's your mortgage every month?

Uh like a $3,000.

>> I didn't 3,000 >> perhaps. >> Okay. So, just ask yourself, is this h

is this car today worth three months of house payments?

>> Yeah.

>> And question. >> If that's a if that's a good math, if that's a good trade for you, then cool.

>> Yeah. Cars are cars are an interesting thing because if you're a car person, you're like, I'm in on it all day. But then if you're like me who's not much of a car person, the question that John just asked, I'd be like, "No, it's not worth three months more." You know, I'm that person cuz I like nice things, but for whatever reason, cars just don't they just don't do it for me as like I'm

willing to spend this money today. Like I just >> And and again, I I want to run back um what what Jay just said. Our rule of thumb here is once you're out of debt, don't don't own anything of vehicles with wheels on it, toys that are worth more than half of your annual take-home income. >> You make 200 grand.

So technically following that line, if you came and said, "I want to buy $99,000." We'd say, "Knock your lights off." If you got cash for it, >> it's not about the dollar amount you're spending. The 40 grand is is nothing for you.

for the for the one year having it now,

do you want to burn 10,000 bucks or

7,000? I don't know what how much RA depreciates in one year. I have no idea.

>> But do you want to burn that now? Um, or

do you want to go buy a 2025 or if the model changed and everything upgraded or whatever, do you want to wait in a couple more months till December and they're going to start liquidating those cars at a at a lower price? um then you can pick one up there, which is what I did last year with with a truck. So you do whatever you want, man. And you're well within the rule of thumb, you're there.

>> Yeah. This is not going to this is not a >> but it's a it's a principle as much as a you're going to be in trouble of any kind. >> Yeah. Cuz that that's the crazy part of this rule of thumb.

But I mean, it's not going to hurt you. It'd be stupid, but do it, right? Um, but it it goes back to that that principle of can you just can you just eat that? >> Yeah, man. Interesting conversation. I like it. I like it. I like it. All right. Uh, I like these social questions that we have on the desk. So, uh, if you follow us on social media, uh, you can

submit questions. I guess even if you don't follow us, you can submit questions. That's the whole point. Uh, but if you don't want to call into the show and this is a way that you want to ask, you can do that.

>> Yeah. Um, my answer would be no.

Obviously, you've got your emergency fund, right? 3 to six months. that is for the stuff that pops up that you didn't see was coming. And then beyond that, I would treat it as a sinking fund. Anything that you feel like you couldn't cash flow in a month's time.

Like some people their income is enough that if they blew their tire out, they could cash flow it. Other people, if they blow their tire out, that's setting them back. So yeah, you probably need to have some sort of a car maintenance syncing fund that you're putting $50 a month in or 25, whatever suits your budget that you're putting aside every, you know, month for that. Uh what else does he ask for? home repairs. Yeah.

Again, if you know your roof is 25 years

old >> and you're going to need one in 2 years, yeah, start putting aside for it. So, yeah, that's a really good question. It's not a certain amount. There's not an amount that we say this is the amount. It's based on your situation in your budget. And by the way, if you don't have an every dollar budget, I'm going to suggest you get one. It's the best budget out there. It's the one that I use. It's the one that John uses. And it'll help you create those syncing funds that you need.

All [Music]

[Music]

right. today's scripture and quote of the day. 1 Thessalonians 5:11 5:11.

Therefore, encourage one another and build each other up. Just as in fact you

are doing. All right. Vince Lombardi said, "Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence." That's so good.

>> Gosh, that's what everybody needs right now. >> Confidence >> is a unified We got this.

>> I like that. >> Yeah, that'd be that'd be that'd be that'd be cool. It makes me think of gosh, I always go to Remember the Titans and you've never seen it, which is >> me, >> right? >> I've seen it a thousand times.

>> Okay, but the last time I feel like I quoted it, you didn't know what I was talking about. >> What'd you quote? >> Uh uh it was about mounting up on wings

like eagles. >> That was the quote of the day. Yeah. And I said, "Like eagles, y'all." Like Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I totally forgot it. >> All right. And then this out of context. I've seen it a thousand times. >> I was thinking about it again. I was like, >> "Trong side, dude. This one I was thinking attitude reflects leadership, captain. Right. Anyway, moving on.

>> And the math teacher brings in like that that film strip. He's like, I've been breaking down the other tendencies. I was like, bro, you're like running algorithms with a protractor.

>> So good. It's a classic classic movie. A film really. You should really watch it.

All right. Kira is in Austin, Texas.

Hey, Kira. How can we help today?

>> Hi, Jade. Hi, John. Um, I had a question. and my um employer allows us

to convert our 401k

to Roth and I was wondering if that is a

good idea to start doing.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> If you got the cash, do it.

>> Okay. I I couldn't I can't do it all at once because I have quite a large 401k and the company only matches if you contribute to the 401k, not the Roth. So

over time, would that that be a good investment to do? >> I think so. They only match it if it's the traditional 401k. They don't match it if you put it into the 401k.

>> Huh. >> Correct. So it's still contributing to the 401k, >> but I can convert it to the Roth, which is weird. But then you can't touch that for five years. So, I'm going to go with the traditional first because the the equation is match beats traditional

beats Roth. Match beats Roth beats traditional. There we go. So, free money, nothing's going to beat out free money. And so, we want the free money first. >> And then we love Roth over traditional, right? Because when you're older and down the line, you don't want to have to pay taxes on that money. You don't want your family have to pay taxes on that money. So, if you can convert it, that's also a great thing. Um, and yeah, I I I

would do that. Um, >> okay. And I I could only do a little bit overtime because I don't want to get out of my tax bracket when I um like cuz and

you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it counts as income, right, when you convert it and then you have to pay like

I don't want to move out of the tax bracket. So, if I make a large amount, I don't want to like >> You're over my skis on that one. You'll have to ask a tax pro on that one.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> What baby supper you on?

>> Uh I'm on four, I think. Whatever

Whatever contribute uh uh paying down

the house. >> Okay. >> Four or five. >> So, you might want to get with the tax pro, but you should be paying you're paying money because you're you're basic essentially when you do a Roth, you've already paid the taxes on it.

>> Yeah. No, I meant when I convert um when

I convert it. So, let's say I convert $50,000. Don't I have to pay my tax

bracket percentage for that $50,000 that

I convert because I have >> Yes. But that that's the conversion. That's what you're you're you're paying taxes on that 50 grand as though it was income now and you're not going to pay taxes on it when it becomes 500 grand 30 years from now. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, that's what I'm saying is like I have $330,000

in the 401k that I could convert, but I don't want to convert all of that at once because I don't have the money to pay. Yeah. Okay. >> Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Technically, this is this is a baby step seven action what you're doing here.

>> Um, >> so I should pay off my house before I do that. >> Technically, yes. because there it's it's almost like if you were rolling this money over to a traditional Roth or

I'm sorry to a Roth IRA. It's almost like if you were doing that and we would save that for baby step seven because of the tax implication. Um you're in baby step four. So there's other more important things to do than to do that.

Now I wish I'm thinking through this because this is the first time I've had this call because I love a Roth but at the first at the same time you're getting this match over. So, I'd almost pretend like the other one wasn't there until baby step seven.

>> Okay. So, don't convert it.

>> Yeah. Because I don't want >> pay off my house. >> Yeah. I don't want that tax burden on you until until after baby step six.

Yep. That's my final answer.

>> Is that your final answer, John?

>> I think my final answer would be start converting that other the backlog, if you will. Like maybe start now like this year's income. Convert it. That's what I was thinking is doing like 50,000 a year. >> And what what's your take home salary every year? >> What do you make? >> Uh for me and my husband both or just me? >> Just you at your company that you would roll to a to you' do it back to >> 200,000 >> 200. Okay. So you make a chunk of money.

Okay. >> I don't mind that. I don't mind what John said and keeping the past in the

past, but from this from this point forward, whatever your current amount is that you're starting with it as a traditional, then at the end of the year or whatever, however you want to do it, rolling that over. I'm not mad at that.

>> And here's my my my algorithm on that in my head is is not a dollar for dollar.

I'm sure somebody could whip out a calculator and make a math case one way or the other. >> Well, she would have been doing that anyway, like on the taxes.

>> Exactly. But but I'm saying like in in doing it out of order.

>> Um is there's a risk too. Let's say the

stock market has a significant troubles down the road, right? So there's a risk.

Anytime you're in the stock market, there's always you're always playing a risk game. The one thing that's not going to change is that mortgage is still coming every month.

>> Yeah. >> And so I want to I want to knock out the

thing that's against me all the time.

like I want to take the risk off the table and that's that's just a personal thing. And so I would I would probably roll the the your this year's income into the Roth to do it back to a Roth at the end of the year. Um but I would yeah I I'm with Jade. I would save that catch up if you will until I've taken all my risk off the table. But that's just me.

And that may be a terrible mathematical calculation. I can't do the math in my head. But that's that's for me just wanting to solve for peace in my house.

Yeah, but the only reason I was thinking about converting it since it grows taxfree once you pay taxes on it then anything it grows from it and I still have >> Well, that's why I said to work >> that's why I said your current amount like whatever you're putting in there for this year and the years going forward, I'm fine with you getting the match and then rolling it over and then because that that was a tax burden you were going to take anyway.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Whereas the big chunk, the 330 or 40 or whatever it was, that's a bigger tax burden. And like I'm I'm with you on John. >> I'd rather not have a house payment. >> Mhm. Save the big chunk as a baby step seven action. >> Yeah, that's a good question. >> And that will cost you for everyone who's yelling and screaming into their their YouTube.

>> Yeah, people aren't going to agree with us on that. cost you um and Dave may disagree with me, but it's going to cost you potential compound growth that that

I mean it's going to cost you money to keep it there, right? If you're going to roll into a Roth and it could have grown taxree or that's there's going to be a penalty there, right? It's going to cost you something to not make that action.

>> Um but it's also going to cost you money that could have paid down your house principal and that house principal never is going to go away. And so I I would take that risk off the table first. That's just me. >> It's a prioritization.

We would say that if somebody if somebody called in today and even though this is through her employer, right? Uh if somebody called in today and said, "Hey, uh I've got 500,000 sitting in my, you know, in my traditional fund. Should I roll it over?" But they had a bunch of a pile of debt sitting there and they had payments. We would still walk them through the baby steps.

any type of investing over 15% is a baby step seven action. And so that's the way it rolls. And it's just like John said, it's keeping the priorities the priority, which is getting peace and getting your house paid off. Uh would come first in that. >> But I do love the idea of my the people who come after me being able to get all of my retirement with no taxes.

>> Absolutely. It's Yes, it is. It is important to do that. If you can do it, do it. And if you can only do Roth, only

do Roth. But like I said, free money, that's again, that's going to trump it at this point. So, that's the way it works. All right, guys. Enjoyed hanging out with you today. Uh, remember, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Thanks for watching the Ramsey Show. See you next time.

[Music]

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## 252. You Can Still Take Charge Of Your Financial Future | October 17, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the brand new runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Elizabeth's in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Wonderful. My husband and I

sorry >> it's okay. My husband and I are debt free and we were looking into investing

and at the advice of a family member, our in-laws, um they suggested to use a

site um that they had been using and

when we tried to create an account, we found that my husband's social security number was already in use. Um and

we have been told not to look into that further. um we can't create the account because his social security is in use and um we're we found out essentially that investments and things are being made in his name even though he's requested that they stop. Um they're sending us quote unquote refund checks

for the taxes that we pay on these investments. um how how can we get away

from this situation um essentially and be financially independent of um our

in-laws?

>> Wow.

>> Yeah, it's fun. >> So, your father-in-law is a con artist.

>> I mean, >> yeah, he's a criminal.

>> This is criminal freaking fraud.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

Well, you need to own this emotionally.

This guy's not only out of control, he's like, "Go to jail, out of control.

You're screwing around with the Securities and Exchange Commission with fraudulent transactions. All y'all are messing up. You're messing up by allowing it to occur." And he's go to jail time if they get Good God, people.

>> Yeah. >> Wow.

>> Mhm. >> See the difference in how I reacted and how y'all reacted? We've been told We've been told we're not to talk about this. Well, you buy God better.

>> You can talk about it from cell block C if you want.

>> Yeah. Have you measured your jumpsuits just to see how you look at them?

>> They'll probably be short.

>> Yeah. I'm just saying. I don't know how you look in orange, but you should probably look into that. >> So, this is what's known as a a family that puts the fun in dysfunctional.

>> Mhm.

So, when is your husband going to call his dad and mom and say, "Guys, you need to shut all of these accounts down in the next 48 hours or I'm filing a police

report." >> Mhm. >> So, we've done that. We just haven't filed the police report.

>> You told them that.

>> Yes. >> And they did not shut them down. We didn't tell them we were going to file a police report, but we've requested multiple times, very sternly, I'll say that in a polite way, to take the name off, get rid of it. We don't want anything to do with it. Cease and desist. >> What was their reaction?

>> Oh, we're doing this for your future.

>> He kissed my butt.

>> Hey, you guys uh suck at poker as well.

I'd love to play poker against you all.

>> You fold on everything. >> Yeah, they just push you around. This is nutto.

>> Yeah. >> Say, "Hey, I got a plan for you.

>> I don't want you in my future cuz my future looks like jail time right next to you, and I don't need a future that involves you. >> I'm I'm being really bold and weird and crazy and overdramatic here, but my point is is that you guys have not been strong enough on this." >> Okay? >> Maybe not as crazy as I've been for the last few minutes, but seriously, you guys got to get up on this and say, "Listen, we've talked to an attorney.

what you're doing is illegal. You're harming us. >> I know you think you're doing something good, but you're not.

>> And you have 48 hours to send us proof that you've shut down all of these accounts. Or, Mom, I'm filing a police record part on you and dad. Do Do you understand here? >> And this is your husband doing it, not you, >> cuz it's his freaking parents.

>> Good lord. >> Why are you on the phone with us and not him?

>> Um, well, he wasn't exactly a

fan of this. And when I our last

conversation that we all had around this and after that ended, I said, "Well, I'm going to call the Ramsay Show." And he just kind of laughed. I guess he didn't think I was really going to do it.

>> Well, now you can play this back for the whole family if you want.

>> You know, I >> I think you could send it to mom and dad. >> Yeah. And I I think you need to make sure you >> Mom and dad, if you happen to hear this, you suck. This is horrible what you're doing to your children. I know you think you're being smart, but you are way out of control. You've never met met the word called boundaries and we want to introduce it to you.

>> Yeah. I I Here's the thing. You're complicit in this now. Yeah.

And it's kind of scary that you called the show and and you've said that you're complicit in it because I I think you've laughed and I and I'm not trying to be a downer here. >> Just nervous. >> Well, but it's not funny. There's actually nothing funny about this.

I hope you hear the urgency. I don't think Dave was too extreme. I actually think that's what you should do because I don't even know. I'm no legal expert and I haven't played one on TV, but I do think this thing is far more serious as to what you all know than you actually realize.

>> Yeah, there's probably other stuff going on. >> I'd be terrified.

>> Yeah. And and honestly, we kind of suspected that recently just with how adamant they were cuz since this account's in my husband's social, he could easily call the company and, you know, get detailed information. And it was like, "Don't you dare. Like, you don't need to be looking in there." >> And he still hasn't. And we need to run your husband down to Walmart and have him pick up a backbone on aisle three.

>> He's going to Y'all are going to have to deal with this, honey. It's a mess.

Y'all are y'all are mess. Y'all are a hot mess. Oh my gosh. So, you know, the

first time I ever ran into this was a long, long time ago when I I we it was like decades ago. We started hearing the word identity theft. M >> I'd never heard the word before and it started coming up, you know, the internet started having more prolification and and you know, when I started the show, there was no internet. That's how long the show's been on the air. So, um, but I started hearing that and then I got just I just got hillbilly

mad cuz some guy calls in and goes, >> I'm 24 and my mom has seven credit cards that she opened in my name when I was 12 and 14 years old.

>> And I'm like, your mother is a freaking criminal. M >> she stole your identity. And and and and

the problem is the victim is just like her husband. They're like, "Well, it's just kind of how our family does things." Your family's full of criminals. That's how your family does things. Your family has no idea how the legalities, how the legal system works in America today. And when you're doing investments, you're now involving the Securities and Exchange Commission. It's not simply banking laws.

>> I mean, banking laws are credit card theft, right? Or identity theft with opening a credit card. You start open a dad gum mutual fund with a licensed

broker. Oh my god. You You don't understand. They love to make examples of people like this. >> Especially stupid people. They really do. The people that investigate this kind of stuff are the most uptight investigators. They are purists. This is

scary stuff. I And I just wonder what else is going on. When the dad says, "Don't look into this. >> Don't look. Don't look under the covers." Oh,

>> Dave, I I I'm I'm serious here when I ask you this. I'm trying to put myself in a position. If this was me, I would call the company and prove to the company that I'm the actual person with the social security. >> Find out find out the depth of what's going on. But that's only there's only one company that you found so far.

>> I wouldn't threaten the parents. I just go ahead and >> I would do both and I do it by nightfall. I mean, before the sun sets

on the horizon.

is putting things off because the problem is there's a family script here that says don't look >> which makes me worried about this. >> I'm here to say the emperor has no clothes. Okay, your family script is cuckoo.

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[Music]

[Music]

Sandra's in Chicago. Hey, Sandra. What's up?

>> Hi, uh Dave. Um I had a question, a financial question. I am in total $628,000 in debt. Um I have a home that

I purchased a little over a year ago for $335,000.

I have student loan debt of $260,000

and I have credit card debt for $33,000.

Um I had two jobs at one point. Um my

second job I no longer work as of 6 months ago. So now I'm just using my primary income and um I was trying to

figure out the quickest way to pay this debt down. Things are getting tough uh with me paying the minimum >> 20 $60,000 in student loan debt. Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Um, I'm in the legal profession. Uh, close to a lawyer, but not. I do legal research for lawyers.

>> What' you spend $260,000 to become?

>> I have four degrees. Um, in what?

>> I have I have a uh associates degree in

biological science. I have a bachelor's degree in English. I have a um master's

degree in library science. and I have a second masters in intellectual property law which is a law degree but

so that's where all the debt came from.

>> The is that not a masters in jurish prudence? Can't you set for the bar?

>> Yes. >> Huh? >> Uh I'm not sure. I haven't done that research on that. Um >> it's like law school. I can check it.

Right. I mean law school is a masters.

>> Yes. >> You've got a degree in research. I heard you should probably look into that.

Yeah, I will after a phone call. I will.

>> Sorry.

>> Oh, that's nasty. No, I mean it's right there for you. >> So, what do you make?

>> Um, right now I'm I'm over six figures.

Um, and then the second job I was making close to like 25,000 a year

>> doing what? Um um I was uh consulting um in uh the

library world doing consulting work um helping them build their libraries back up. Libraries that are having issues.

>> They either don't pay much or you weren't working much. 25 grand. Huh.

>> Yeah. I wasn't doing a whole lot. Maybe about 15 20 hours a week if that.

>> 15 20 hours a week for 25 grand a year is not much. That's horrible.

>> No. >> Per hour. >> Mhm. Um, wow. Okay. Well, what what is

apparent is that you have um a lot of

education and a lot of upside potential therefore on your income if we can figure out a way to apply that education in a way that makes you more money, which is what you need is more money and not more degrees. You have plenty of those. Mhm. >> So, um >> yeah, I mean, you've got it's an income issue really, and you don't go buying a

$300,000 house when you have $300,000 in student loans. That was badass backwards, but um >> Mhm. >> the uh um

>> Are you single?

>> Yes. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> Single parent. Um 45.

>> Okay. So what I would start asking myself is what use of some of this education

can I do in the marketplace to make the

most money?

>> Mhm. >> And what combination of that? So if

library consulting only pays a dollar an hour, I don't really want to do that.

Okay. But if if I can get some serious money going for some of these different

things that you know how to do that you're knowledgeable in uh even if it's two things or three things I don't care but I I want some serious money and you don't really have serious money coming from any of these given your level of education.

>> I mean making 100,000 bucks or 120,000 bucks or whatever with uh 14 degrees is not I mean you're not >> this is not working. So, um, do you need

to sit for the bar and become a an attorney and make 300,000 or do you need to, uh, apply your masters in library

and in the form of education and make an extra 100,000 as a professor on the side doing that? I don't know. I don't know what the answer to this is, but it appears to me unlet, you know, I I don't

think we can sell off enough stuff here

>> to fix the underperformance of your

education without fixing the Now, if you get all those things going and you want to speed it up and sell the house, that'll be okay.

>> Okay. >> But how much equity do you have in the house?

>> Um, I think about 15,000.

>> Yeah, that's not enough. Just bought it.

What is your actual income? You never You just said six figures. What's the actual number?

>> Uh, around 115 117.

>> Yeah. Instead of consulting with libraries, which is a dead-end business, and I'm not trying to be unkind. There's just there's just no growth there.

There's no income there.

>> What can you do in that additional 15 to

20 hours a week with the expertise and experience you have to make some real extra money in the law space, legal space? What can you do? >> Intellectual property. I mean, yeah, that's a solid that's a solid >> and you don't have to answer it, but that's the homework assignment for you is how do I make an additional 50 to75,000 while I'm deciding what the passing the bar looks like. That's that's what you've got to be thinking. >> Sandra, I I might be wrong and and I'll

give you a 50% chance that I am, okay?

And so you don't have to take this directly on the chin unless it applies,

but it sounds like you fell for the lie

that if I get education, people will hand me money

and they're not. And you did. And then

you went and got another piece of education and then another piece of education. You've collected more degrees than a thermometer. And so, you know, you just keep collecting them. And but that's people that do that generally are one of two things.

They are trying to hide and they want to stay in school and they're trying to hide from reality. Um and so they just keep they're a professional student or they fell for the lie. I think you're in the second one.

Okay? And so you've got to think about how the knowledge that you have gained and you're a very knowledgeable person.

You've got uh we can make poke fun at all the degrees, but you also are you have a breadth of knowledge. It's pretty impressive. And so you got to think about how I can actually from a utilitarian perspective take that knowledge and use it to make as much money as possible. And if that had been your goal from the start, you probably would have a different list of degrees and fewer.

And so uh and it's a mistake people make all the time. They think if I just go to college and get a four-year degree that the degree the degree is useless.

The knowledge you get while you're getting the degree ladies and gentlemen.

Now that knowledge is great power.

>> Yeah. >> Assuming it is power assuming is knowledge that the marketplace wants. And to your point uh not picking on libraries or anything but we live in a digital age. Yeah. And uh the Dewey decimal system is not exactly high on people's knowledge list right now or use us usage. And so um well you got public

libraries. The key word there is public and therefore it's government funded and libraries are way down the list of the politicians budget items. And so that's why that's really honestly a dead end.

You know I'll just add one thing to what you said Dave because a lot of people listening want to expand this to a larger audience. Here's the voice of temptation you will hear if you find yourself in a situation like this.

I'm not doing anything because I don't know what I want to do. So, I should probably do something. And I know if I don't know what I should be doing, I should be doing something valuable. And you quickly go, "Oh, if I continue learning, at least that's valuable." And what happens is you exchange uncertainty

and the fear that comes with that for certainty and what you think is the future for that. And to Dave's point, uh, that is not a good exchange.

Accept uncertainty and know that I can at least get out and step out of the uncertain and I can be active and I can connect and I can do some work while I'm figuring it out. But continuing to push uncertainty down the road ends up in

this kind of financial liability. That's really the temptation. A lot of good people, smart people, uh, do this and I'm telling you, avoid this. Avoid that.

You know, when we were doing the uh documentary Borrowed Future, we had a lot of discussions of people like me that I was the first in my family uh in

in my generation in my immediate family tree to get a four-year degree. And if you're the first, a lot of times you value the wrong things. What you should

be valuing is the knowledge, not the actual degree, and the application of the knowledge in the marketplace. And that keeps you from signing up for too expensive a degree and the wrong degrees. [Music]

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[Music]

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John is in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Thanks. Hey, I just want to first say thank you for all you do. Uh my question is I've been following the baby steps.

I've been knocking out some debt and it's been going well. Um I'm down to my last debt which is a car um 34,000 on it

currently and it's worth about 31 32. My

question is, should I go ahead and bite

the negative equity, just pay that off, sell it, essentially pay the negative equity, and then buy a beater for the time being, or just try to pay off the car fast and just keep going with the debt snowball. >> What's your household income?

>> Just north of 100K.

>> Okay. So, how fast do you pay the car off?

>> Um, currently could pay it off and I'

I've got some extra cash I could pay towards it. So, I could probably >> How much cash do you have? Huh?

>> I can put about $7,000 towards it.

>> Okay. And once you do that, No, no, no, no. That That wasn't what I asked. What I asked was how much cash you have.

>> Yeah. I got 7,000 to put.

>> That's your No, you said to put. I'm asking how much cash you have, not how much you have to put. How much money do you have?

>> Just uh $10,000.

>> Okay. All right. And so you determined that three left in the account was the proper amount. We think it's one. So you have nine that you could put towards it.

Do you have any other nonretirement investments?

>> No. >> Are you married?

>> Yes. >> What does she make?

>> Um she that's included just north of 100 including the household. >> Oh, that's household income. Good. Okay, good. Perfect. and no other assets anywhere except $10,000 in your name that aren't retirement assets.

>> That's correct. Yeah, we've been paying down pretty aggressively. >> Good. Good for you. Okay. Well done. All right. If I woke up in your shoes, I would put nine towards it and leave $1,000 in the account. Be on a total every dollar budget and you and your wife sit down, know where every dollar is going before the month begins. Make every dollar behave. You'll feel like you've gotten a raise. And if you squeeze every dollar out of your life,

how fast can you pay off $24,000?

>> Definitely. Um, well, you need less than 24 months, probably 18 months.

>> That's wussy.

How about one year?

>> All right, >> that's $2,000 a month. 24 from 100 plus

or minus an extra job, plus or minus selling some stuff. And we're talking no eating out, no going on vacation, beans and rice, rice and beans. Do you like this car that much enough to keep it to fight for it like that for a year?

>> Yeah. You know, I I think so. I think when you look at the used car market, what I've been looking at is I was looking at something real cheap, but my wife needs something reliable for the kids. Um >> Oh, carries for that.

>> Yes. >> Oh. What are you driving?

>> I have a paid for pickup truck. That's

how old >> it's um 6 years old.

>> Okay. So, 2019.

Nice truck. Okay.

>> Um >> cool. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean that if I

woke up in your shoes and I like the car, I would be on beans and rice and the car would be paid off in under a year. Under those circumstances, I would keep it. >> If you're going to drag it out two years, I would sell it.

>> That's fair. That's good. >> Too long. Too long. Trying to trying to swim with a boat anchor around your ankle. It's no fun. You get end up drowning. It's not fun. So, you got to you got to break the cycle here. So,

guys, um I can help y'all with some of this cuz some of you listening listening listen listen and then still walk in here into the bear in the bear's den. Um

the um and get called wussy by the way.

>> Yeah. >> But I I didn't say he's a wussy. I said that's wussy. >> I know. But wussy is a fun word. >> Wussified. I like that you brought that back. >> It's a lack of intense sacrificial

involvement. Okay.

>> The uh so

what Ken and I what any of the Ramsey personalities and I and what I've what I've always done, what I've always taught them to do is we just do look at big numbers. Okay. 100 minus 24 leaves

that family enough to live on.

That's how I did it in a year. And then 24 divided by 12 is $2,000 a month. So, it's fairly easy. It's it's sixth grade math done fairly quickly in my minor brain here. And so that that's, you know, so when you're looking at stuff, ask yourself, okay, I make $175,000 a year and I'm going to pay off $75,000 and and I'm going to do it over four years. Well, no.

No. We're going to take 175us 75 and leave you whining about living on a 100,

okay, and and get it done in one year.

Or maybe we did it in 6 months and lived

on really beans and rice instead of acting like you're rich or something cuz you're broke. And so this is the kind of stuff. These are the mentalities. But if you'll just take those big numbers and start shuffling, do big number math like that, you can know what we're going to tell you, it's going to come in pretty quick. Brooks is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Brooks.

>> Hey Dave and Ken. Hope you're both well.

>> We are sir. How can we help?

>> Well, I'll try not to be a wussy on this question. And a boy. At a boy. It's

T-ball, baby. >> There we go. Um, so my question is,

should my wife and I withdraw our fund from our non-retirement brokerage and savings account to pay off our home?

>> How much do you owe in your home?

>> 273. >> And how much is in the brokerage?

>> 202 and 83 in a Wells Fargo savings

account. >> So So enough to knock it out and still have an emergency fund.

Yeah, that was my other question was capital gains tax and emergency fund.

What would your recommendations be?

>> Uh, an emergency fund and make sure you have the capital gains banked. What's your household income?

>> Um, I'm the only one that works. My wife stays home with our daughter. I make 110 before taxes with potential for another 100 in sales. >> Okay. Well, 100% of what we're talking about is not taxable, but only the gain

on it is taxable. And the money market's probably got very little gain. And if it does have gain, it's taxable not at capital gains, but at ordinary income.

So, it's only the brokerage account itself. What did it start out at? How what's your basis in that account?

>> From what I've been able to calculate, it would tax about 81,000 of it.

>> Okay. So, 15% of 81,000.

>> Yep. >> Wow. So, it's been sitting there a while. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So,

uh 12 grand, right?

>> Give or take. Yes, sir. And and so wait a minute. You said you we got 280 to work with. No, no. 80 and two what?

>> Uh the mortgage is 273 and roughly 285

to pay it off with.

>> Okay. >> Cuz you got 202 in the brokerage.

>> Okay. So So you have 15,000 in your emergency fund and you need to save 12,000 before tax time.

>> Yes. >> I think you can do that making 100 with no house payment.

>> Yeah. The mortgage is $1870 right now.

>> Yeah. If you just took your house payment, put it up, you'd have enough for your for your capital gains tax when it comes due by April 15th of 2026.

>> Would you consider waiting till January to wait for the 2027 tax season?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> I might I might just to help your cash flow. >> Yeah. >> Because this is a little tight. I'm I'm I I number I would if you had zero money left and you had to pay off your house, you had no emergency fund left, I would not tell you to pay it off. >> Okay. >> And I would tell you to wait till January. And we're kind of on the bubble on that. I mean, you got a little bit here. Um but uh Yeah. Yeah. Cuz that

kicks it out. It kicks it out almost uh 14 15 months then.

>> Yep. >> By doing that. Yeah. That's that's a good >> Okay. >> I do, man. But gosh, I mean, be ready.

Like I'm talking like you pop a champagne cork at New Year's and you write a check, right?

>> For sure. >> I mean, don't don't hesitate here. Don't don't don't rethink this and over analyze it and all that kind of stuff.

Uh but that's a that's a that's a valid question sitting here um in late

October.

We're only talking about 60 days. I mean, think Christmas is only 10 weeks away, >> right? >> So that's not a if if we were earlier in the year, I probably wouldn't. But since we're right here on the threshold anyway. Yeah, that's a good that's very non-wified. Brooks, I'm proud of you.

>> I like that's how we started every call.

Wuss or no wuss?

>> To wuss or not to wuss. >> Yeah, there you go.

>> Brooks, you're fun, man. >> Shakespeare would have loved that.

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Jessica in Illinois. Before getting serious about following the baby steps, I co-signed a car loan for my 22-year-old daughter. I have two credit card balances to tackle besides her car and I will be debtree.

She owes 12,000 on the car and I have 20,000 in credit card debt. Do I finish paying my personal debt and move on to baby step three or do I include her car note in my debt snowball? She has not missed a payment and has not asked for help paying, but I just really want to be done with it so it's not hanging over both of our heads.

starter emergency fund in savings and want to move on to baby step three as soon as possible.

>> Tell her Dave, um, well, we're going to pay off the car after you pay off your credit cards cuz the car is under control right now. It's not in panic. So, we'll put it at the back of the debt snowball and clear your credit cards and then clear the car and then work something out with your daughter so that she repays you since you're paying off her car early.

>> Okay? Because there's several problems

um with this that that lay in the future.

If she gets laid off, gets in a car wreck, has a medical event, anything like that, this is going to come back on you. It's what we call a contingent liability, which means it's a liability.

And meaning they're going to come after you. And by the way, they're going to come after you really fast and they're going to skip over her because they never thought she was going to pay it in the first place. That's why they wanted a cosigner. And so they're going to come straight at you if something goes wrong.

And I I mean, I'm not predicting horrible things happening to your daughter, but you know, life just says things happen. And um that's why we

never cosign. So, um, I have co-signed

and I ended up paying it. And when I went bankrupt in my 20s, a friend of mine had co-signed for some stuff and he ended up paying it. I went back and paid him back even though the bankruptcy said I didn't have to, but I wasn't going to burn my buddy just cuz he was dumb enough to cosign and I was dumb enough to let him. But, um, let me just tell you, the most aggressively marketed product in the United States today

is debt.

debt is sold as a product more

aggressively. More sophistication, more money, more bandwidth is spent selling you folks debt because it's so profitable than any other product.

I mean, you think you've seen a Chevy Silverado run through a mud puddle on every football program for the last 20 years, and you think Chevy spends money on that. It's nothing compared to what Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and

your local bank spends to get you to cosign a car for your kid. Okay? They

spend money convincing you, and they've convinced an entire culture, generationally, that the only way to prosper, the only way to get what I need is to go to the bank.

the only way my daughter gets a car.

They've convinced you and brainwashed you of that so that you cosign because she couldn't get the car on her own.

Now, if debt is so profit profitable

that they will literally fire a teller

if they don't get enough home equity loan applications in while you're making deposits.

Victoria's Secret literally does not

sell small underwear.

It really sells credit cards. So much so that if you ask the ladies that work there, if they don't sell a certain number of credit cards per shift, they get fired.

They make more money on credit than they do small underwear.

Same at the car lot, same everywhere else. Okay? And so if this is the most aggressively marketed product and if they want to sell debt more than they want to live and eat and breathe and they won't loan your daughter money, something's really wrong because they really want to loan her money. And if those people, the sharks,

will not loan her money, your sweet little daughter, your sweet little grandson who wants his pickup, your daughter, your your daughter who just went through a nasty divorce, if they won't loan her money,

it's because she's not going to pay it back.

So, don't act like that you're doing somebody a favor by helping them buy

something they can't afford. That's what you do when you cosign. It's stupid.

As a matter of fact, it says it in the Bible. Proverbs 17:18 says, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another."

And if you look up 17:18 in the CEV, the contemporary English vont contemporary English version, this is not a joke. This is a fact. Look it up. It says, "If you cosign for someone else, you're stupid." That's what it says. Because of

what I just described. And so, poor

Jessica, I'm not calling you stupid, but I am calling you what you did stupid.

Stupid. You were trying to help. You're sweet. You're trying to help your daughter. All that. But yeah. So, what do we do with stupid? We get out of it as fast as we can cuz it's going to tackle you by the ankles later if you're coming up from behind. Look out. Look over your shoulder. So, and folks, the next time you get ready to cosign for someone, just remember it's stupid.

I mean, straight up biblically stupid.

Don't do it. If the most aggressively

marketed product in the nation will not loan your friend, your daughter, your son, your grandson, whatever it is, whoever it is you're trying to quote help by getting them a car payment. God help you if they won't loan them money. It's cuz they can't pay it.

And they're not even looking to them. They're looking to you. And that's what this is for. So please, and I've done it. I'm not saying it I'm it's been

decades ago, but I still remember how stupid I felt when I wrote those checks.

I knew this. I knew this guy was a dead.

I knew he I knew the bank was right. The bank wouldn't loan him money, but I'm so smart. I'm going to help him. And then I get to pay the bill. And you know what I wrote on the four column on the check?

Stupid tax. That's good. I paid some

stupid tax. Tax on your life when you're stupid. And I paid plenty of stupid tax in my life. And some of y'all have too. Try not to do it, though. I'm trying to help you with this.

>> So, the moral of the story is don't do debt and don't buy small underwear. Is that right, >> Ken? You're very precise on your listening, folks. >> I am locked in. I'm locked in, folks. I want to make sure you're catching the lesson. >> I I did not say small underwear was off

the menu. I just said financing it.

That's all I said. >> Some guy in the audience got very excited out there. He elbowed his wife.

>> Kayla. Kayla's in Kansas City. Hey, Kayla. What's up?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I have a question. Um, I have around

$3,000 in credit card debt.

>> Mhm. >> I owe around $12,000 on my car um that I

bought during CO I got or right before CO. So, I have 2% interest rate and it's worth 22 to 25,000 right now. Mhm.

>> Um, so I have equity in my vehicle, but then I have 16 almost $17,000 in student loans. >> Mhm. >> My student loans are all federal financial um through federal financial aid. And through that, it's broken down into three loans >> into how many? >> I'm new to your program.

>> How many? Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. How many loans in the 17,000 is student loans? How many different loans? Two.

>> I'm sorry. Three. >> Three. Okay, I got you. All right. Go ahead.

So, working the baby steps, I'm going to one start with a credit card. Two, what

I didn't know is if I should start with

my car or if I should split the

financial aids up, financial aid actual loans up. >> They're not financial aid. They're federal student loans that are failing >> and we just need to get rid of them. And you have three of them. What are the amounts on those >> exactly? First one's 3,553.

>> Mhm.

>> Second one's 6,490.

>> Mhm. >> And the third one is 6,645.

>> Yeah. So, credit cards to student loans to car smallest to largest.

>> Gotcha. >> After broken down to keep those whole or break them. >> Yeah. It doesn't matter mathematically much because you're going to do it at about the same time frame. What's your household income?

150k. >> Oh, good. Okay. So, you're going to be done real fast,

>> right?

>> Okay. So, I just didn't know if I >> Yeah, just pay off the smallest first cuz when you pay off the smallest. And by the way, cut those credit cards up tonight. Time for a plusic surgery.

A plasttomy.

Chop chop chop chop. Get you a debit card. They don't accidentally run up debt for airline miles. I've never made

anyone rich.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat on the Ramsey Network is my co-host. Vanessa is in Corpus Christie, Texas. Hi, Vanessa.

How are you? >> Hi, I'm good, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> I my parents and myself and my children

consolidated households a few years back

and my mom made the down payment on the house and I've been making the payments,

the utilities, everything else. So, I've been maintaining the household. I'm getting ready to sell the house and we're going to go to separate residences.

My question is, should I give her would

I get back out of the house to basically

pay her back for the down payment? I think I should. My brothers think I shouldn't.

>> Okay. So, how are your your is your dad

still alive?

>> My dad has just moved into a nursing home. >> Okay. So, where's your mom going?

>> I'm assuming an apartment or something.

Yeah, I'll get her a little apartment.

I've told her I'll pay $1,000 a month towards whatever rent or whatever she needs, and then she'll need to live on her social security from there.

>> Okay. So, is this a relational breakup?

Is that why you're selling the house?

>> It will be better for a relationship to sell the house. Yes, a relational breakup. Also, my youngest child is

about to go to college, and with my dad moving into a nursing home, we do not need a house as large as we have.

>> Okay. All right. How long have you been in the house?

>> 3 years. >> Okay. So, there's not any written agreement? >> No, sir. >> Okay. >> Well, was it a gift or was it a I'm going to contribute to this collective living arrangement?

>> I

I think it was more like we're out of money. I'm going to give you what I have left and buy a house and you're going to take care of me for the rest of my days.

>> Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Okay.

So, um, how much did she give you at the

time for the down payment on this house?

>> It was 84,000.

>> And how much equity will you get out of the house when you sell it?

>> I think I'll get between 60 and 70ish.

So, you've lost money on the house, >> I think. So, yes, sir.

>> How?

>> I It's just the market we bought at the very height when it was um >> the market in Corpus Christie, Texas, has not crashed.

>> Okay. >> Where are you getting your numbers?

>> From my realtor, >> the one that sold you the house?

>> No, sir. M. So she says you over or he says you overpaid dramatically for it at the time cuz I don't think house I mean what'd you pay for the house total?

>> Uh 415.

>> Okay. So you're saying this house has lost 10% of its value in 3 years rather than going up in value.

I don't I don't think so.

>> Yeah. Okay. I I'll I'll buy that. I I

might be able to get a little more out of it. The neighborhood we're in, there's still new builds being built.

So, why do your brothers think that your mom should not at least get her money back out of it? That there there's some

logic here I'm missing?

>> Yes, sir. Um, they think one that she

won't be responsible with it and two that she owes me basically rent for paying for everything for the last three years.

>> Wow. Nobody in this family's happy with mom. Okay.

Not at the moment. We love mom, but we're not happy with mom. >> Yeah, I got that. I got it.

Yeah, she's difficult. >> Um, >> and I'll make sure she's taken care of whether >> I didn't hear that. I'm not hearing you be a jerk. You're not being a jerk.

I'm just It's just interesting. Matter of fact, you're being so subtle. I'm having trouble coming to conclusions. But, um, yeah, I'm not I'm not anti the brother's point of view right out of the gate.

I'm not saying I'm supportive, but I'm also like, you've been paying for everything since she's been in there.

That's That's correct. It was fuzzy.

There's not a clear deal. I mean, the clear deal was you stay there until she dies and then it's your money >> and that >> Well, the clear deal Yeah. When she when they passed away, I would get basically the house. >> Yeah. Which was the down payment money.

I mean, that's it all it's worth. Okay.

>> Right. And now my dad is Alzheimer's incapacitated. Can't make any decisions on the house. My mom has left. I don't

think she's far behind him going in the nursing home.

Um but but we need to we need to split

residences.

>> Okay. And your mom thinks she that she should get the money or does she say it?

>> My mom has not said a word.

>> Okay. Interesting.

Okay. I don't think I don't have a clear ethical or moral guide on this. Um, so

the the the fact that your mom wouldn't take care of the money does not make it not hers.

>> Agreed. >> Yeah. Stupid's not illegal. And so, uh,

it doesn't it doesn't mean you get your money taken from you just cuz you are incompetent. That's not how it works.

So, it's not private not how profit private property laws work. But, I'm also not sure it's her money anymore.

So, I don't know what to do. Um, what would I do if I were in your shoes?

because I don't hear you bringing harm to her or revenge or vengeance. I don't hear any of that in your language or your voice. I just hear separation has to occur and I love her and she needs to be over there and so I got it. And it's

very, you know, you're being very kind.

And um so

the other thing is if you put this money in her name and she goes straight into a nursing home, um that's what it's going to get used for, >> right? >> If you keep it in your name and she goes straight into a nursing home, you can work with the nursing home and negotiate with them and use the money to care for her as if it was for her, as if it was her money. But you kept control of it.

>> Is there a way I could put it in something that would >> Nope. >> take care of her until then?

>> Uh, yeah, you can put it as long, but you're you you put it in a mutual fund and you could give her some monthly income out of the mutual fund. In other words, you're not personally taking use of the money, but you're keeping it in your name for her good. That's the same as giving it back to her, but maybe better given the situation.

>> I think that's a great idea. >> Yeah. And I I I'm listening to this and and I'm just going to say that you've already committed, you've told Dave and I that you're going to give her a,000 bucks a month to go towards her living expenses. She has to foot the bill from social security.

So I think in some ways this is a bit of semantics because you're already committing to give her 12,000 a year. >> But you wouldn't have to do that if you use this 80,000 or 60,000 or whatever to create an income. >> It's all the same thing. I I I don't know that I would give her the money.

>> No, it's I'm not I'm not giving it to her.

Yeah. If I'm managing her money, Yeah.

then I wouldn't give her $1,000 out of my income a month. Of course. Exactly.

>> But I'm saying it's a pot of money and I just don't think the lump sum given to her to control is what I'm saying. I just wouldn't do it. >> Yeah. >> I think I think >> because there's not a moral imperative to do that because there's no deal.

>> Yeah. >> You're not breaking a deal.

>> No. >> The deal is I want her taken care of.

>> Well, you're doing that and you're going to do it. >> Exactly. >> And I think it's a great idea. So, the best way to do that is to keep the money earmarked for her. In other words, you're not going to take this money and use it for your next down payment.

>> It's going to be sitting over here with an investment advisor earmarked in an account named mom, even though it's but the legal owner of the account is Melody. And that Yeah, that makes sense.

Or Vanessa, I'm sorry. That makes more sense. Yeah. H

It's good if you treat other people like you don't be treated. That's always a good rule. I think Jesus said that.

[Music]

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Susan is with us in Memphis. Hi, Susan.

How are you? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I have a question. I am 72 years

young and on baby step two and I've

jumped all in with both feet. I've got the book, the Total Money Makeover book, the workbook, the Every Dollar app, the financial coach, and I'm just wondering, am I too late to be doing all of this?

>> No, >> it's uh it's harder to make the exact same progress. I mean, the power of compound interest if you were 22 would work to your favor to build a million dollars a lot better. But it is the fast what you're looking for at at any age

>> is first getting to sustainability

and then moving into, you know, wealth building. And the fastest road to sust sustainability is to get rid of the

consumer debt, get those payments out of your life and build an emergency fund.

>> Exactly. and and then of course start building the nest egg. And so you're still working?

>> No, I'm retired. >> Okay. So, what's your income? What are you living on? >> Um 67 uh a year. 67,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how much debt do you have? Not counting your home. >> Oh, I'm embarrassed. Well, my home is paid for 41,000.

>> 41,000. Good. On what?

>> Mhm. I'm sorry.

>> On what?

Um, credit cards is ridiculous credit

cards. >> Okay, that's okay. So, uh, have you analyzed for self-awareness yet where

that debt came from? How did you get $41,000 in credit card debt? What were you spending it on?

>> Well, my problem was I had two sons that

both died within six months of each other. >> Oh my. >> Yeah. And I just went to retail therapy.

I thought that would make me feel better and cure the >> cure the um >> understandable thing and it's a it's a clear analysis.

>> So we know the point is it's not going to reoccur.

>> No. Right. >> And so that's the point of the self-awareness, right, Ken? >> Yeah. See, when you're clear on the source of it, we go, "All right, how do I guard against that?" You know, and you walk through something that is unimaginable for a parent. So, you know,

you do have the knowledge now of this deep pain caused me to do this. So, you can get out of it. Here's my question.

Can you through the skill and experience you have up to this point in your life, can you pick up some work that would be just focused on knocking this 42,000 out as quick as possible?

>> What did you do? >> Okay. Um, I was administrative assistant

for churches. >> Perfect. >> That's easy. I got to tell you. So, >> tool that up real fast. >> Yeah, I would be. And I know this isn't fun. So, I know this is a bitter pill, >> but if you went to work for a year and it'd all be over, that'd be cool. >> That's right.

>> H Okay, that gives you something to think about then. >> This is Think about this is we're only working for the sole purpose of knocking out this pain. And this is going to be extra special for you, not just to remove the burden of the debt, but what that debt is actually tied to, which is a lot of pain. >> Okay. Okay, that makes sense.

>> And I think you need a goal like that at 72 is my point. If you can visualize that to see why I'm doing this, there's really a two-fold victory. I think it's huge. Do do you have um

the the 67,000 that's a retirement income, a pension?

>> It is. My husband's in the service, so he and he died from Agent Orange, so we get or I get a compensation from that, plus his army benefits. Um, >> so there's no nest egg.

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. How much is your house worth?

>> Um, about 350.

>> Okay, good. Yeah, I think you're fine.

We get you out of debt. You're going to be fine. Um, and you know, it'd be neat if you started building up some kind of investments, but we don't have to panic about that part of it.

>> Um, okay. But I do need you to have an emergency fund of $15,000 and be debtree. So, you're $60,000 from your goal. So, one year of work might be really cool.

>> Okay. All right. Well, now should go.

>> I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No, you're fine. Go ahead.

>> Um, I was just going to ask along a different note. Uh, should I close my local bank accounts and go with Fair Winds? I've read a bunch about it.

>> Well, we're big fans of Fairwinds. Uh we've all got Fairwinds accounts, but we've not closed our other accounts.

>> We've got both. Okay. >> We've got both. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so, like Rachel opened up hers cuz she wanted that cool debit card.

>> She she was like the first one. She went running to do it. So, um but um but no,

I I you know, for for starters, you might end up with them 100%, but I would start with a 50/50.

>> Oh, okay. and make the make the transition gradually at this stage because you've got you got enough other things that you're burning calories on.

>> I mean, you know, you're burning brain calories on. So, yeah, you're doing good. Susan, I I got to tell you, just the talking to you, the uh clarity in

the language you're using and the way you're describing all of this. Uh there's a lot of wisdom >> and a lot of self-awareness. So, I predict that you're going to do very, very, very well. And I'm sorry you went through this these tragedies and that it left you with this uh credit card stain as a part of that story.

I'm with Ken on that. So yeah, the sooner you get rid of that, the better and the more stable you get. And yes, the baby steps do apply regardless of age, regardless of income, but we're, you know, we're apt to adjust the income around here. We're not above saying get a job.

We do that sometimes, like almost every day.

Denver. Hey Melody, what's up?

Hey, I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so I have about $4,000 in credit

card debt that I would really love to just knock out and get out of my life.

Um, >> I have $5,000 in savings. Mhm.

>> But the problem that I keep running into

and has me feeling stuck is um my

husband and I were both self-employed and um both of our jobs are very seasonal and so winter is when we go into slow season. Um and that always puts us kind

of in like >> you're you're doing what again with your job? >> It's seasonal. So in the winter, >> what do you do? >> Yeah.

Um, I'm a photo editor for like wedding photographers and then my husband does shed hauling.

>> Okay.

>> So, we're about to go into slow season

and usually we have to be, you know, very, very, very frugal and like last year we had to dip into our savings.

>> Well, that's because you're not working.

Why don't you work >> at something that's not dur on the season? I mean, if you're a photographer, get Santa Claus lined up.

>> I'm not kidding. I'm not >> a photo editor. >> Yeah, but do something else then. Just because you're a photo editor full-time doesn't mean you can't go be >> How about being a photo editor for something other than weddings >> like Santa Claus pictures? I'm serious.

Or something that I mean, offset your seasonal instead of saying I have to sit on my butt, >> right? No, I've I've taken as many clients as I can possibly get. Um, >> only in the seasonal area.

>> Home mom.

>> No, it's for um worldwide. I I can take

clients. >> Yeah, but even if it's you, you said stay-at-home mom, so you're making excuses here. I get it. But your husband can at least be working. He could be stocking shelves. He can be uh driving trucks. He can be doing all kinds of things that you don't even have to touch the savings, >> right? Yeah. I mean, that would be the logical >> No, no, no, no, no. It's not. That would be >> No, no, no. Not would be must be >> is >> must I must work in in our seasonal

downtime.

>> Yeah. No, I agree 100%. The issue for

him is that um he has a bad record. Um

so he did some stupid stuff when he was a teenager and because of that, >> darling, >> stupid stuff didn't keep him from building sheds. >> Yeah. And I would tell you they're building homes. They're building you can do in spite of having stupid stuff on your record. Sitting on your butt is only one of them.

>> That whole industry, by the way, is full of people who have people on their record. I worked in construction as a college kid, and I was the only one with a driver's license. I had run as much time getting getting jobs as you do, making excuses, you'd have no money problems.

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtree stage. Mitchell and Sarah are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hello.

>> Hi. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> Anchorage, Alaska. >> Fine. Welcome to Tennessee.

>> It's beautiful here. >> Oh, we're glad to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $217,000.

>> Awesomeness. How long did that take?

>> Three years. >> Three years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Started around 100,000, ended at $172,000.

>> Wow. Nice jump in three years. Yeah.

>> What do you guys do for a living? >> I'm an occupational therapist. Mhm. And I work for Costco. >> Very cool. >> Have you met George? George would love to meet you.

>> So, what was responsible for that $72,000 jump?

>> Uh, a couple things. Um, when we first started, he was on workman's comp and um

and we were currently living in Idaho and then we moved to Alaska, which also led to an increase in income and get him

back to work. >> Yeah. Okay. Led all that. >> Very cool. So, what made you go on the Alaska adventure? I'm curious.

>> Well, we just really felt God kind of opening that door. And

>> you didn't notice the cold air when he opened the door?

>> We We welcomed it when it came through the door. >> Arctic blast. >> Yeah. Well, um >> yeah, we were in a dark year.

Um the year prior my dad had passed away. Um he had gone a workman's comp. M >> um we had made some dumb money decisions and we needed to make some change. We had a lot of things happen all at once >> and a change in scenery is not a bad idea.

>> Yeah. >> All kidding aside. Yeah. >> Yeah.

And so God pay in Alaska is excellent. It is. >> Yeah. And how long do you have to be there before you get to participate in the gas stuff and all that?

>> Um it has to be one full calendar year starting in January. So if you moved in like after January, you have to wait until the following January to start all over. Okay. >> So >> So you not been there long enough yet?

>> We just got We just got it. Oh, no. year. Three years.

Yeah. You just got that. Okay, cool. So, how much is that a year?

>> Oh, no. >> No, >> it's like $1,000. >> Oh, I thought it was here. >> Yeah, I think this year it was $1,000.

>> On behalf of everybody. What are we talking about? >> Uh, PFD. It's from the um oil fields that they have in contract with the um Alaska government. >> If you're an Alaska resident, you get to participate in the profits.

>> Well, profit sharing the pipeline. Okay, that's nice to know. Okay. I'm sorry. I thought it was substantial. I didn't realize only a thousand bucks. Okay. All that discussion for not much. All right.

Anyway, so >> is this the house? Did you pay off that?

No. No. >> No. Student loans, car, credit cards, um

medical debt. >> Medical and um tax.

>> Cool. And how old are y'all?

>> I'm 34. >> And 35. >> How long you been married? >> Five years. Okay. So, two years there, tragedy strikes, new scenery, moved to the So, how where in this process do you get tied into Ramsey stuff?

>> I started um after I graduated from OT school um in winter of uh 2019.

>> And we were dating at the time and I was telling Mitch about it and he was not on board. >> He thought I was at MLM scheme.

>> Mhm. >> And I wish I would have made more money.

And then when we got married went a little more Daveish and didn't take things quite as seriously. And then when

we had that hard hard year, it's like we really need to get >> it brought everything into focus.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Come together. >> So Mitch, when everything get when the when the hard times hit, what made you say, "Okay, we're going to do the Ramsey stuff now." >> Um I think for me it was just seeing

>> uh >> something's got to change. something just had to change and and seeing how

scared Sarah was and how hard she was

working. She took on three jobs >> and with work comp, they don't, >> you know, really make ends meet >> and so it was just kind of all of that and it it took a while for God to work on my heart for that. >> Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough.

That's that's it's not that unusual, but I always love hearing the story. >> Yeah. Uh, it's not just because other people are probably in exactly the same spot that are watching or listening to this. So, yeah.

Yeah. Very cool. Good for you guys. >> So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of $200,000 worth of debt in three years?

>> We didn't eat nothing but rice and beans. >> Lots of Mexican food.

>> Yeah. >> Um being willing to sacrifice um especially for the short term with that end goal in mind. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um especially because like um we had a slight pregnancy scare and in the middle of all that and we realized I we couldn't afford to even

have daycare. We couldn't afford to have one of us um step down.

>> So if we wanted to have a family, we needed to make some sacrifices. >> Something had to change. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Keep doing the same thing over and over.

Don't expect a different result, right?

So you got to change something. >> Yep. Yep. >> To change the recipe if you want a different cake. Yeah. Good. Good for y'all. Proud of you. This is herculean effort when you look at those numbers.

217 bench pressing like 400 lb. Pretty

incredible. >> So, here's what I want the audience to hear. >> How quickly in your journey did you begin to see momentum? Cuz you you bought in and you went hard at this thing. How quickly before you went, "Oh, we're making headwind and we're we we can actually do this." >> It was I don't know, as soon as we got to Alaska kind of. We got there and and

I got back into full-time work. I got a raise. Sarah got her big raise. And it

was just >> it was it was really quick. >> At that point, you guys had already been all in going hard at it.

>> What's the What's the first debt that got paid off? >> The car. >> Yeah, the car. >> Okay. And what's the one that you paid off that went I hate you. I'm so glad you're gone. >> All of it. >> Yeah. All of it. There was none of it.

That was good. >> A lot of hate. A lot of hate. That's good. >> Yeah. That's a motivator. That's okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Good. Way to go, you guys. All right.

And so, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? >> Man, for me, it was getting on the same page >> and uh getting on that budget and just

being real with one another, communicating, and that's that's a huge

thing >> I would say. Know your why. Know what your goal is. Why?

>> What was yours?

a life of peace, >> a life of being able to do things that we want to do without having to have that fear of

I should be doing something else with my money. >> Whether that is advant like taking education for my career or going on vacation or even just buying >> or not having pregnancy and scare in the same sense. >> Exactly. >> Having that peace. >> Yeah. Peace.

>> It's not a scare anymore. >> No. No. >> Yeah. Good. Very cool you guys. Very cool. Uh, who was cheering you on?

>> My family for sure. My mom taught FPU when I was in grad school. All my siblings did FPU and all of their families. >> Yeah.

All of my family, siblings, parents. We have a lot of friends in Alaska and Idaho that >> we were very open and honest with them about what we're doing. >> They all cheer us on. >> Well, that's good.

So, nobody dragging you down? >> No. >> Nobody saying you're crazy? No.

>> Oh, there's some people that said we're crazy. >> Okay, good. Cuz you need to those people motivate, too. I'm just saying if that guy thinks I'm crazy, I'm right on track.

You know that you need that guy, the anti-mentor.

>> Yeah. I like it. Very cool.

>> I remember working years ago on a campaign in Alaska. I was probably 21.

And I never forget this. We were out campaigning, knocking on doors, old school style, Dave, and it's probably 7:00 at night, summertime, gorgeous. And

I come off of somebody's front porch and I look to turn to the next house and I see a gigantic, I mean full-blown adult moose chewing on flowers in a suburban

neighborhood. And that blew my mind.

>> They're everywhere. >> We have them in our yard. >> Not a deer, a giant moose like it's a pet. >> And that's scary stuff. >> It's pretty scary. Freaks me out.

>> Nasty. Yeah. >> You're brave people in more ways than

>> I love it. Well, congratulations you guys once again. The whole Ramsey crew is proud of you. Thanks for making the trip down here to celebrate and to encourage others on the YouTube and the podcast. And everybody let let people know this can be done. Mitchell and Sarah, Anchorage, Alaska, 217,000 paid

off in 3 years, making 100 to 172. And

you know how they did it? They decided to. They got on the same page, decided to work together and know their why.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

[Applause] >> Wow.

You know, it's amazing the number of times we talk to someone that a change of scenery is not an option for them.

And sometimes it's the most healthy possible thing. >> Yeah, it's absolutely right.

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[Music]

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[Music]

Lauren is with us in Toronto, Ontario.

Hi, Lauren. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm trying to decide whether to buy or lease a car. My husband leases his

car. Um, I currently own mine. Um, and

so I'm used to not having monthly car payments. Um, my husband thinks I should

lease because we can write it off through our business. Um, I would prefer

to buy. Um, but of course it would take

out of our savings that we have. So, yeah, I'm just trying to decide which route to go.

>> Okay. Well, it's it's quite often that I

get to tell the wife that she is right and her husband is wrong because that happens a lot and this is one of those wonderful cases. So, but let me give you the actual backup. Your husband's so wrong. It's unbelievable how wrong he is. >> He's not just a little bit wrong. He's like really wrong. Okay. Uh including

when he did it. So, let's walk through how our write off works. What is your tax rate in Canada? I know you guys get taxed a lot more than we do and we get killed. >> Oh, yeah. It's in the 40s. 40%.

>> So, you pay 40%. I thought it was 65.

>> It's closer to where um

Yeah, it's about 45.

>> Okay. All right. So, >> yeah, >> if you spend in your business >> a deductible expense, >> $10,000 >> as an expense and it goes on your P&L as an expense. It reduces your income by

$10,000, >> right? >> And so that is the tax write off that people talk about. All right?

>> Okay. And so what that saves you, let's say you didn't do that and instead you had that $10,000 worth of income, the taxes on that $10,000 would be $4,500 on

a 45% bracket, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so when you spend $10,000 that

you don't need to spend

>> Yeah. in order to be to call it sophisticated and do a write off. You've traded a dollar for4.

>> Okay. >> Bad trade.

>> Yeah.

>> Got it. >> Okay. >> It's kind of like I gave an extra $10,000 to the church and I saved the I can write that off as a charitable deduction, I assume, in Canada. Correct.

>> Okay. If I give $10,000 extra to the church and I save the tax, I get to give the gift, which is good, and I save $4,500 on taxes, but it costs me 6,500

net.

>> Yeah. >> In order to give that gift. So, I would never look at someone and go, "Oh, I give to charity because I get the tax write off." >> Because that would be a stupid statement. >> Yeah. >> Because you're trading 10,000 for400.

That's not sophisticated in any math.

And that's what your husband is saying when he says, "Oh, no. We should lease the cars and piss the money away so that

we can take the ride off and act like we're sophistic." No, you're you're trading a dollar for4, >> right? Yeah. And um one of his arguments

is that well you can lease a new car so it's always within warranty and then you don't have to worry about maintenance.

>> Yeah. And then the other argument would be new cars lose 60 to 70% of their value in the first four years. So that's stupid.

>> Yeah, >> man. This guy's just he's just losing all the way around. You're just killing him here. It's awful.

So nobody wise people do not spend money on their business and trade a dollar for4 and call it sophisticated.

>> Okay. >> The only time you would do that is when you're actually getting a return on the investment, not buying a depreciating asset or a super duper depreciating asset called a new car.

>> So no, this is just dumb dumb dumb. It's

rationalization cuz he likes the car.

>> That's right.

He just wanted to buy the car and he tried to figure out some way to posture and act like it's smart. And then by the time you get through doing the math, you look not only not smart, you look just plain dumb. So no, don't do it. Don't do

it. Don't do it. So moral of the story, Lauren, is listen to Lauren. She's smart.

And you didn't even know the math. You just had a bad feeling about it. I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to be in debt just to call it a write-off. and don't go in debt just to call it a write-off because it's dumb. The math doesn't work. They never give you a hundred cents on your dollar ever in a tax write-off. There's no such thing.

So, no, we just don't do those deals.

Not ever. Marissa's in Houston. Hey, Marissa. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken.

>> Hey. >> Uh my qu my question for y'all today is my husband and I are paying off our debts. We have about $85,000 in debt uh

not including our mortgage. Um as we take the baby steps on, we're slowly paying off um like um a Pelaton as well

as a mattress. They're both 0% interest.

>> Wow. >> And then after that, we have >> You guys just buy everything, don't you?

You financed your mattress and the thing you hang your clothes on, the Pelaton.

Oh my gosh.

>> Hey, we use it. But anyway, the truck um

is a 2021 F-150 and we owe 26,000 on it.

Um that is at a 2.99 interest rate.

>> Uh but actually I know we can pay those off slowly and snowball them um the payments, but my next question is we actually have a heliloc worth about $47,000.

>> What's your household income?

We make, let's see,

$15,000 a month.

>> Okay. Marissa, um, please don't justify

staying in debt by having low interest rates. >> Yes, sir. >> And you've been giving me your interest rates as you went along like they were some kind of bragging rights on a pelaton.

>> Okay. So, no, let's just say this

consumer debt, including the truck and the HELOC, is stupid and we need to clear it all up because the faster we clean all that up, the faster we're going to be in a position to really build serious wealth.

>> Well, and the main question we have is the house we're in now, we've lived in since 2017. It's a great house, but we have three boys and we are quickly outgrowing it. So, we know that we're not going to be in this home for the long term and plan on moving actually in the next two to three years. So, >> you need to get out of debt before you do.

Correct. Of course. >> Okay. >> But where we're stuck is we're trying to figure out if once we pay off the truck and pay off the other two consumer debts, >> then are we going to then pay towards the HELOC and get that completely paid off?

>> Yes.

When you sell your home, >> when you sell your home with a heliloc knot on it, they're going to give you a check that's $40,000 larger cuz it doesn't have a helock on it, >> right? >> So, you are saving the money. It's just buried in your equity, >> right? Well, we just knew since we're going to be moving in the next two to three years, >> you're not hearing me. You're going to get the money.

>> Yes, I understand. >> Okay. So, don't kick the can down the road and act like everything's No, just get rid of the stinking debt. And then when you sell the house, they're going to write you a check and you got the same down payment you would have had as if you didn't pay off the helock and had the money in savings, >> okay?

>> Exact same down payment, >> okay? >> Because it's exact same $40,000. It still works that way both ways.

So, Ken, a rule of thumb on uh second mortgages is if they're less than half your annual income, and at 15,000 a month, this is definitely less than half their annual income. Um, and 40,000 being the amount, then we put that in baby step two. If it's a huge HELOC or

whatever second mortgage we want to call it, then we put it over there in baby step six and pay it off with the mortgages. In which case, we would have done what she said to do, which is wait until the house sells or refinance or whatever you're going to do and get rid of it. Um, by the way, these rates are

coming down. We're sitting at 5 and a half right now on 15-year fix. And so, if you're sitting on a 6% first mortgage

and you've got a big second mortgage, it probably be a good time to refi and roll them together and get you a five and a half on the whole puppy. Now, if you're sitting on a 2% first mortgage, probably not going to want to roll that in and do a refi. Okay? But if you're sitting on a 2% mortgage, it's 20,000 and you have a $200,000 second mortgage at 10%.

Great time to refi and get rid of that. So start running your numbers at this five and a half number on your first and second. And does it make net net sense to get a new first mortgage at a lower interest rate cumulative interest rate, right? A weighted average interest rate over the thing.

And it pro it may for some of you that are sitting on that.

Heat.

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Heat.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Coleman Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Steve is in

Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Steve. How are you?

>> Real good, thank you.

>> Good. How can we help, sir?

>> Okay. Uh, my wife and I are on baby step seven. >> Mhm. >> And we have three children. Our 16-year-old is very eager to work, make

money, but he looks at more of buying

things online and then reselling as his

job. And we keep pushing for him to get

a job. How else do we go about this to help him see the importance of actually going to a job? Or are we looking at it wrong?

Has he has he been able to actually do this with his own money, buy something and then flip it?

>> So he Yes, he over the years he's mowed

we pay well at home. Um so I mean he he's stocked up a lot of money, but now

he sees it as an online avenue is better for him to make money with his time.

>> Is he actually proving out his theory?

Does he make money with his time?

Unfortunately, I I don't feel he does.

And I might be just too too overcasting on it, >> my wife and I. But we just don't see as No. >> Okay. We talked to a 19year-old the other day that had a million dollars.

>> No. No. We're talking maybe $10 he might

make off of a pair of shoes if he buys and resells them. Maybe. >> And if he does, but does he do that 15 times a month or one time a year?

>> Uh once once a It's like It's like he goes in spurts. >> Okay. every I I I would meet both of you in this and say all right number one my job as your dad is to make sure that you have

extreme work ethic because people that

do not work do not succeed

>> correct >> that's my job as your dad and I'm going to do my job even if it causes you great discomfort >> yes >> this is the kind of discussion I've had with mine when they were that age okay and then so the bad news is that the good news is I'm going to help you. So now, if your job is

being an entrepreneur and you're using your online skills that are native to you as a 16-year-old that the old man doesn't understand, that's fine. But you are running a business and now let's talk about I'm going to coach you in how to run a business. So a business has a profit and loss statement. And if you're running a business and you make a dollar an hour, your business is failing.

>> Yeah. Because you could have been working a jo o for somebody else and making $20 an hour.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, but if your business is making $100 an hour and you're working 40 hours, I'm going to get excited about your entrepreneurial spirit and your business acumen that we're building because we're going to run a P&L and we're going to see do you actually make a profit on this crap or do you have an online hobby and you're substituting that for work?

>> Yes, I think it's where we're going.

>> Yeah. I think >> Well, I I don't care. In other words, I'm going to prove to him that this is not his job.

>> Okay. >> By the fact that he's not making any freaking money when I make him do a proper profit and loss statement on this and start tracking his sales.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So, how many items did you sell this month and what did you pay for those items and what did the collective group sell for? And the difference is called your profit. >> Yeah. >> You have cost of goods sold in a business, my son. That's how entrepreneurism works.

Is it correct to tell him when you do profit, put the profits off to the or put your actual money that you spent, keep that because you got to pay yourself back. Yep. And then keep his profits separate. >> Yeah. You have to at least take your cost of goods sold and put it back in.

>> Otherwise, you run out of inventory money. >> Yes. >> And so, let's let's say let's say he sells $4,000 worth of items and his cost in those items was $1,000. So, he made $3,000 this month. I would call that very successful for a teenager. >> That is. Yes. >> Okay. If he did that, we would take the,000 that he paid for those items out

of the $4,000 and put it into next month's inventory.

>> Yes. >> Or a little more, 1,500 cuz maybe we can grow this thing. >> Yeah. >> But we're not going to just take the $4,000 and bank it or blow it >> and then have no inventory for next month. What we're what I'm saying is is if part of me teaching you work ethic is to also teach you some business principles and encourage your entrepreneurial spirit, I'm willing to do that. I am not willing and you are not, as a person that lives under my roof, going to kid yourself and burn a

bunch of activity, make no money, and call that a job.

>> Yeah, >> that's an illusion. And I meet adults that have not learned that. But you got the opportunity to have this young man under your wing and teach him some entrepreneurial skills. >> Yeah, Steve, I want to make sure Dave just gave you great advice. I want to give you some tactical things to do here. You've got to lean in with your kid and you've got to push him to do what he's doing now better and see if he

can make it bigger before you poo poo this. And I'm not getting on you, but your your posture as you started the call. And by the way, I've been there, so I'm not not not getting on you, but make sure you heard what Dave said >> before you push him to something else.

Push him to do this really well. Which means you got to know the numbers better. And you barely know because I think the whole concept to you is probably a bit foreign and you're a little irritated by it. And I think you're going to get him, you're going to have more effect doing what Dave told you to do if you lean in first. If I can

teach my kids, if I can teach my kids to be entrepreneurs successfully, >> yeah, >> they're going to do better than if I teach them to get a job. >> And I was just going to suggest something as you push him. Why don't you invest a little bit? Go, hey, and I'm making this up. Get do your homework.

Get in it with the kid. Do some do some of your own homework on kids that are doing this well. But let's say it, let's use the shoe example. And I'm not telling you to do this. This is an example. I might go, "Hey, I'm going to give you x amount of dollars and I'm going to invest in you. because I want to see if you're serious about this. So, I'm your investor. I'm going to buy five pairs of shoes for you and you're going

to sell those and based on what I've learned, what you're telling me, you should make this on the shoes and and walking through that like Dave was telling you because now you're teaching them about investors, you're teaching him about a lot of things and let's put some positive pressure on this instead of negative. That's the only thing I wanted to share because I think you end up >> amazing how you shared that. I like that.

positive that we actually reveal if he is just scamming you and he's just trying to come up with an excuse not to go pick up a shovel. >> And >> under all of this is he's feeling your

strength to force him into character-based Yeah.

>> decisions because that's how he becomes a man.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

>> Yeah, he's not. And so what you don't want to do is say all all things that are online and entrepreneurial are bad.

It because it it always makes me laugh.

I remember my grandmother my grandpa worked for Alcoin for 38 years. He had a job >> cuz he went broke in the Great Depression and never wanted to be unstable again. And my grandmother tied into that same emotion. So getting a job was a big deal for them. They were get a job people. And so I'm self-employed.

And the day I got the call from the publisher that I had sold my 1 millionth

book, the first book, Financial Peace, my grandmother called me and she said, "You know, I was praying for you this morning. I'm worried about you. I really think you need to think about getting a job, you know, and you don't want to be that, you know, that that's that's a cute story, but you don't even want to be that. You just so I want to encourage his entrepreneurism, but only if it's not an illusion.

I don't want to encourage delusional thought. So, let let's turn this into money, baby. And you prove yourself. You prove your idea. And if not, you be

working at Chick-fil-A saying, "It's my pleasure.

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Jess is in Rochester. Hi, Jess. How are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I are in baby step 2 and we are struggling with managing the cash flow of our budget. Maybe it's because a portion of his pay is irregular, but usually at some point in the beginning of the month, we have to pull from our baby step one to cover the

bills so that they're not late. And then the next paycheck, we can replenish our savings. But I was just wondering how we fix this so that we don't need to dig into our baby step one savings every month.

>> Probably a shortage of income. What is he making?

Um well I guess gross our W2 for the

month income is 7,800 and then gross

spiff income for him that your regular income is about 2200 but it varies. We

don't really know. And >> so you can't make it on $10,000 a month.

>> Well so our minimum to run the household is 8,000 >> pray.

Um, so our mortgage is 2400

and I guess the next biggest thing would be our son's school is 1,700

and then just utilities, food, transportation, all that adds up to $8,000.

>> No, it doesn't. Unless you have a $1,200

car payment.

uh our car payments combined or I have

um credit card debt, car payments, and

>> how much credit card debt do you have?

>> 8,000. >> And how much do you owe on these cars?

>> Uh 15,000 on the RAV 4, 20,000 on a GMC

Terrain, and then 73,000 on student

loans.

>> Okay.

All right. How many children do you have?

>> One. >> Are you working outside the home?

>> Yes, I'm an accountant.

>> Okay. So, your total household income is $10,000 a month.

>> Yes.

>> But you can't make it on $10,000 a month even with what you've described to me.

>> Well, we can. It's I guess it's the timing of the bills that are a struggle.

So, I keep digging into the savings and

then replenishing it. Um, >> yeah. I don't think you're doing a monthly budget, are you?

>> Uh, I have my Excel spreadsheet.

>> Yeah, that's what I thought. You need to get on the Every Dollar app and lay out a proper budget where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and you pre plan the cash flow so that

it doesn't get backwards on you and you

say, "Okay, what's going to wait on his bonus check at the end of the month?" And then of course ultimately you build margin into this and you flip it to where his bonus for this month is covering stuff for next month instead of last month.

>> But that's going to be done by mar that's going to be done by getting margin and and and under control.

>> I also have I mean y'all have done some ridiculous purchases.

>> I can tell that you spend a lot. So are

are you guys staying out of restaurants?

>> No, you're not. Okay. All right. All right. I didn't think so. So, um, >> we're trying to >> Yeah, you're not though. You're not. So, >> what are the combined car payments?

>> It's 15,000 and >> Yeah, but I'm just looking the What's the monthly bills right there on the two car payments every month?

>> A,000.

>> That's insanity.

>> Yeah, but I mean, I think you could get them all paid off, but you're going to have to get the other side of this and create some margin. And you don't have margin in this budget. Um and and it's

kind of ridiculous that you don't on 120,000. So um that's where that's where

you've got to get to. So you got to increase your income and decrease your outgo. And the spread is how you clean up the debt mess instead of spending every stinking dime you make every stinking month and spinning your wheels because you start to lose hope because you feel like a rat in a wheel.

>> Yes, 100%.

>> Yeah, that that's the problem. And that it's scary. I understand. So, um,

you know, um,

>> yeah, I feel like I'm just always behind. I'm I'm just I'm >> No, see, there's not, let me change the

word. It's not I, it's we.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. The two of you sit down tonight and lay out an every dollar budget for the upcoming month. The two of you sit down tonight and say, "Okay, why can't we live on 10 freaking thousand?" And look at it together and start asking yourself the question, "What has to be cut? Number one, you need to not go on vacation. Number two, you need to stay out of restaurants unless you're working there as your extra job to get your income up." Okay, that's it. And then we

burn our lifestyle to the ground. If that doesn't work, we start selling cars.

>> Okay? and get rid of these debts because I've got to create a,000 to $2,000 worth of margin in this to start reducing these debts rather than just spinning our wheels. And you're not going to do that a without a plan and b without cutting spending and probably see increasing your income somewhere. You probably could pick up some side gigs on accounting that you could do quote spare time unquote uh evenings after the baby's asleep, whatever.

Uh it's tax time here right now. You got a bunch of filings and stuff going on right this second. Uh, probably too late on that one actually, but um, you know, whatever you can do around Christmas, whatever he can do to pick up and just, you know, if you picked up a couple grand a month and use that, let's get rid of the credit card debt and then let's get rid of the car debt and now we start to have some margin and then then we can knock off that student loan debt and work that debt snowball smallest to largest in that order.

And um, but you can't even talk about doing that right now because you're you're just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul each month.

So, but I think the first thing is you're going to cut your lifestyle and get on a detailed plan. Both of those things will make you feel like you got a raise and that's going to flip this over. But, so you're about 10 to 15% of

intensity that you have to turn up.

You're not This is not an intellectual exercise. This is an emotional exercise.

It's I'm so pissed off. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that's what gets you out. That's what gets you out. Orlando is in El Paso. Hi,

Orlando. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm I'm doing good. I'm breathing. My family's breathing. I'm blessed. >> That's a good thing. >> How are you? >> It's a good start. How can we help?

>> Well, I've got a bit of a question. We

um I just recently paid off my house

property.

>> Um Yes, sir. And um I'm thinking of um

doing a equity loan or a heliloc

on the property to build a um to build

another house and sell it for profit.

And um so I I don't know. I mean it's kind of scary.

>> Yeah, it should be >> wondering if that's a good idea or not.

>> No, it's not a good idea. It should scare you to the point you don't do it.

>> You just worked to get your house paid off. Now you're going to roll the dice on your personal home and hope you hit red.

Hope you hit craps. No, I'm not doing that. Not a chance. I love the idea of flipping houses with cash, but not cash from your home.

No, no, no. Please, please, please. In I

mean, you felt a different kind of peace the day you paid it off and now you're want to step back into the land of anxiety and right back into the bear trap. Um, and you said, "I'm kind of scared." That's what tell And so you >> Yeah. You you you recognize your body physically feels >> different when you pay off your house.

And now you're want to put that tension back between your shoulder blades. No.

>> Yeah. >> Please don't do that.

>> Please, please, please get off that tic-tac site, that get-richquick real estate, whatever you're reading. Get away from that. It's going to cause you pain, my man. And we love you. We don't want that to happen to you. I'd love for you to do some house flips in the future with the money that you pile up since you don't have a house payment anymore and do it with cash, but not with borrowed money on your personal residence once you finally got it paid off. That makes my that makes my head

hurt. Oh my gosh.

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in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtfree stage. Brent and Paulie are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hey Dave. >> Dave. Hi Ken. >> Hey Ken. >> Welcome. Where you guys live? >> I've been to Oregon. >> Fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. >> Little bit of a haul to get over here and do your debtree scream. We're glad you're here. >> Just a little bit. >> It's beautiful. >> How Yeah. Thank you. We're honored to have you. How much debt did you guys pay off? >> 286,452.

Dave, >> way to go, guys. Excellent. How long did this take? >> 6 years. 6 months. >> Good for you. I love it. And your range of income during that six years to 6 months? >> 108,000 up to 170,000.

>> 170. >> 170. >> Oh, wow. Good. And what what do you all do for a living? Uh, I am a NDT radiographer, Dave.

>> And I work in accounts receivable for a digital marketing tech company.

>> Very cool. Good for you guys. Well done.

And the kind of debt, the 286. What kind of debt? >> Uh, 56,452 was two cars, a boat, and our two phones. >> Oh, wow. >> And then 230,000 was our house. >> Oh, boy. >> Looking at weird people.

>> I love it. Congratulations.

>> It's finally done. Well done. How old are you two? >> Uh I'm 41. >> Wow. >> And I'm going to be 40 in May.

>> And you have a paid for house.

>> We do. We do. >> Wow. That's so cool.

>> What's the house worth? >> Um Zillow tells us 550, but I know what

we could get it for if we put it on the market. >> Mhm. >> So, probably right around six.

>> That sounds right. >> Yeah, >> sounds about right. We know Zillow is not accurate. >> Exactly. >> All right. And uh Man, that's so cool.

How much in your retirement nestics? Uh, we're roughly probably right around 860,000. >> Wow. So, you're 40year-old baby steps millionaires with a paid for house.

>> Yeah. Oh, excuse me. Excuse me. That's with the house.

>> With Oh, so you're heading to baby steps million almost, but not quite >> by next year, Dave. >> Got it. Okay. Yeah.

Well, I mean, stock market shoots up there a little bit. Yeah. Just like that. So, there you go.

There you go. >> Way to go, guys. Pretty. How does it feel to be almost millionaires and 40 years old with a paid for house?

>> Wild. >> It's just It's surreal, Dave. Like it's so hard to explain.

could think how I wanted it to feel and like now that we're here it's like John Deloney always says it's like you have bricks in your backpack and you take them all out. It's finally we've set all those bricks out of our backpack and down it's just we're free.

>> Yeah. >> Huge sigh. >> I love that. All right. So, what what was the catalytic moment or was it a series of things that makes you guys go, "Hey, we're doing this and not only are we getting rid of the debt, we're going all the way and paying the house off." >> Right. Exactly. So, for us, it was we we kind of thought about the answer to that question because we listen every day.

And there was no aha moment, tragic life

event, nothing like that happened. It was actually kind of more of a conversation that we just randomly had.

I work from home, so I'm listening to the podcast all day, which is great, but

kind of, you know, he comes home one day and we start chatting about it and we both kind of, we're very competitive people. You should see us play Monopoly.

And we looked at each other and we're like, do how quick do you think we could actually do this or is it even a thing do you think we could actually do? And I am the nerd of the family. And so I immediately got into my spreadsheets and started, you know, color coding, putting our pays, putting how much, you know, margin we have. And it was off to the races truly at that point. And we were like, let's see if we can do this.

>> So no big argument really.

>> No, we don't argue.

>> She's always right. >> Only at Monopoly.

>> We don't argue. She's always right.

>> Yeah. >> No, he was ready. Like we were ready to roll. >> How long had you been married at that point? Um, right at six and a half

years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, now you're 13 years. >> 13 years next month. Okay. Wow. Okay.

Very cool. >> Good for you. Oh, wow. That's cool.

>> It's very exciting. >> That's a good way to get at it, though. So, it was more kind of a >> begins almost with an intellectual curiosity spurred by the podcast.

>> Yes. >> And you said, I wonder if that works for us. >> 100%. Well, and Dave and also like I look at like we made a fairly decent income starting off and I looked at our paycheck every two weeks and at the end of the month it's like man we're making this much money and we were fleece people. We enjoyed the new vehicles.

Totally >> and it's like I mean why are we doing

what we're doing? It's we had like I said a great income and it's like it's just getting taken away and taken away to nothing. To what? Just so you can show people you have a nice car.

>> They got caught up in that. how much is the payment >> game that so many people including you know people that we know very closely it's oh well what's the payment you can afford it what's the payment and we got caught up in that and it was something that we were like why why are we doing this like you know just for a piece of metal that's sitting in the driveway you know >> we called it our yard arnament

>> expensive ones yeah >> I love it that's fun well that is cool that you're really what happened is you're you're what you value

uh changed. >> Yes. For a longer term vision that was

uh less than the shallowness of just having a nice car. >> Yep. >> Very much so. We wanted that. We wanted to wake up and just breathe and not work. At one point, I had like the other couple that was up here. I had three jobs. He was working non-stop overtime.

It just we were we're just like why why are we doing this with our precious little life we have? >> Yeah. Exactly. It goes fast and end up working your whole life for somebody else if you're not careful. >> It felt like we were working our whole life for the last six years. >> Yeah. >> So, off to work I go. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Good for you guys. Who was cheering you on? >> Definitely our parents. We have amazing sets of parents. His parents have a paid off home and have been a huge huge inspiration for us. My parents have cheered us on. Amazing amazing friends.

>> Friends. Yeah. >> How did you find the podcast originally?

boredom. To be honest, um >> if you type in boredom, we come up.

>> No, >> that's what everybody wants to hear.

>> I was bored and I'm like I honestly just truly was looking for something to listen to that was inspiring and came across it and binged it for, like I said, I got got sent home to work from home during Corona years and just started binging it and it was to this day it's the first thing I listen to right when I have my coffee till the show's over. So, >> Wow. Yeah. >> God bless you for putting up with us.

>> I know, >> Dave. It's one thing. The rest of us, I don't know how you do it. >> It's hard sometimes, but hey, not

surprised. That's why I apologized.

>> Uh, what what what's the key? What would

you tell people the key to this whole thing is? >> Get your butt to work.

>> Oh, I like that. >> Yeah. My alarm would go off at 1:00 a.m.

every morning. And I'd start work anywhere between 1:45, 2, and then I

didn't get off till 3:30, 4:00. And I

would do that five four days a week. And then on Fridays, I'd go in and work six hours. And then we had our side hustle that we would uh >> we'd get we would get furniture and we

would turn around and paint furniture and sell them. >> Anything on the side of the road was mine. >> If you look at the some of our photos that we have, that's our garage. >> Oh wow. >> At one time we had 42 dressers in our garage. >> Furniture store in the kitchen. Took it over. No room for anything.

kind of like our end result.

>> So, this is going to inspire some people real fast. Give us one example of how much you paid for a piece of furniture and how much you flipped it for.

>> So, she got one off the side of the road actually for free, right? And we put on a trailer, took it home, and she I think she ended up selling it for $750.

>> Come on. >> It's a beautiful Drexel vintage. I mean, you know. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Cruising around the rich end of town. See who put something on the curb.

>> I see it. I'm like, "Babe, get in the car." >> It was 6:30. It was 6:30 in the morning one morning. She jumps out off the couch with coffee and she's like, "We got to go. We got to go. There's a dresser on the street." And we went and grabbed it.

>> Somewhere in bin, they're going, "Oh, I put that out there for the furniture. Got to come by, pick it up, repair it.

You stole it." >> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. >> No. Only Only Legal for you.

>> I know. Good job.

>> Thanks. >> Excellent work, you guys. Excellent work. I'm proud of you guys. Thank you.

Very cool. Good for you. Work, work, work, work, work, work, and get on that every dollar budget. Here we go.

>> Yes. >> Yep. >> All right. It's Brent and Polly Bend,

Oregon. $286,000

paid off in 6 and 12 years, making 108 to1 170. Their secret was coming together, being unified, work, work, work, work, work, live on less than we make, and steal dressers from people's front yards. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yeah.

Wow.

You know, Ken, I knew we'd had a lot of listenership growth, but I had no idea that it was because when you type in boredom, we come up. >> Well, we'll take them however we can get them.

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Heat.

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Heat.

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Our [Music]

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scripture of the day, James 1:12.

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. Jos Billings said, "Be

like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." >> That's pretty good. >> Half our audience has no idea what a postage stamp is. >> That's true.

That's true. Top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or a will? Well, if you've got a large estate, something north of a million dollars, you may need an actual attorney to do the will for you, and you might need a trust at that point, but it's certainly got to be north of a million, probably north of 5 million before you even worry about that kind of thing.

When do I need to start my online will or what do I need?

Who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your children that are minors? And who do you

want to make decisions for you if your health goes and you're incapacitated?

the healthc care power of attorney. Is an online will legally valid? Of course.

But you need to know that all wills are state law, not federal law. So when you

leave one state and go to another to live, your old will is invalid.

You need a will done according to your state's laws. And um the proper signatures or notaries or whatever is needed and the components of the will itself are different from stateto state.

And so it's very important to get one that's state specific. So go to ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. It's a free wills quiz and we'll start to learn about this stuff and get that taken care of. It's what grown-ups do. Matthews in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi Matthew. How are you?

>> Father Dave. Hey Ken. How are you today gentlemen? better than we deserve. How can we help? >> Awesome. Just have a quick question for you. Um I'm quite entrepreneurial in spirit and um uh one year ago I

unfortunately had to close a business and was advised to declare chapter 7 personally just to protect myself from some of the dotted lines I have my name on. >> Did you? >> Um I did. Yeah. Uh in early December of

2024. >> Wow. Um >> yeah, it was definitely uh a fantastic learning experience for me. Um I have

since pivoted and and been saving as much money as I can and paying down some of the uh uh accounts that were associated with that business closer just out of a moral. Um, and I am due a

a bonus quite soon uh at my current position and I already have about $12,000 in savings. And I just kind of wanted to see if you recommend debt snowballing uh you know some of the past

new stuff associated with the business or or how do you associate you know non-personal debt but if you're paying stuff off where there's a variance of different things?

Well, it was personal debt when it was in the business because they didn't loan your business money. You had personal signatures on all of it. That's why you filed Chapter 7.

>> That's fair. That is correct. >> And so now you don't have any debt legally legally speaking.

>> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. And you're saying that you want to go back and pay back the bankrupted debt.

>> Yeah. As much as I possibly can. Just as a a small business operator. right now I I owed some small businesses, you know,

AP accounts and and stuff like that. So,

just a just a I've never taken money from anyone. So, uh you know, just

>> how much how much is involved if we total all those accounts?

>> Uh about 187.

>> Okay. All right. >> Is all of it associated with the business? >> Okay. And you're making what kind of money now?

>> Uh 130. >> Okay. Good for you. All right. Are you married?

>> Uh, no, sir. >> Okay. All right. Well, if you Here's the

thing. You do not legally owe the money.

And I would only tell you to go and pay it back if you feel like God's telling you to do that. In other words, this is a moral, spiritual tug on your heart.

Um, I do not think that is required to

be ethical. Um, >> okay. I did do what you're doing on my bankruptcy 10 years later.

>> Okay. >> But it was not it was it was not because I felt like I morally owed the money and it was not because I felt like I ethically owed the money because I'm pretty sure I didn't. I was the laws of the United States allowed me to file bankruptcy on the debts. Um I had repaid already 90% of it before we went bankrupt anyway. Um, and I was forced

out by craziness the on the other side

of the discussion. Um,

but I did wake up very very clearly

knowing uh one of the one of the few

times in my life I'm 100% sure God told me to do something. And in my case, and it might be because I'm on the microphone doing this, but in my case, God told me to go back and pay everybody, >> not just the small ones, but everybody.

And so, and that was a trip. I got to tell you, it took about six months to convince people to take money that they had not thought about in a decade,

>> you know, particularly bankers because it wasn't their money.

>> And it created it created like work for them to put this on the books and they didn't want to do their job and stuff.

So, it was weird. But, um, I did do it.

Uh, uh, and I don't talk about it much.

I don't brag about it because it's not relevant because I'm not going to impugn that on everyone else. I felt like that was a directive to Dave Ramsey. I'm not sure if that's a directive to

Matthew, but I would tell you if you felt that strongly, you know, from a spiritual perspective, you should go do it. And uh I also would tell you there's no hurry.

>> Okay? >> You don't have any money, you make 130,000, >> you don't have any money, you make 130,000, you're talking about 187,000, it's going to take a while, >> right?

>> By the time I got there, I had the money in one account to write a check and do it. It also took close to a decade to talk my wife into it, but um she wasn't going to ever pay them back because she knew what they did to us. She knew how they treated us >> and she's still mad 35 years later. But

um don't make a hillbilly woman mad. I'm just saying that's the moral of the story. But anyway, the Yeah, but that's,

you know, again, I I I hesitate to tell that because I don't always want I don't want other people to impugn it as >> my actions are a principle of ethics or a principle spiritually. So, if he decides, he was asking, "Does he >> do the debt snowball?" No, I would just take I would do it one debt at a time in full. >> Yeah. >> Because the debt snowball is you pay minimum payments on everything but the little one.

You're not paying any payments on these. And so, I just list them smallest to largest. When I had enough to knock out the little one, I'd call them up and go, "Hey, feel like God told me to pay you and I'm going to run the check over for that $13,400 that I owe you and here I'm going to drop it by." And uh I did do some of that.

the reactions were very interesting. I can imagine >> they were very weird in some cases.

>> Some people are like, "Nah, don't worry about it." I'm like, "Yeah, well, I'm too late. I'm already worried about it." So, and then others are like, "Oh, it's $13,422.13.

Are you going to include the interest?" You know, it's like people all kinds of different reactions. >> That's >> instead of like, I can't believe you're doing this 10 years later. >> But yeah, anyway, so list them smallest to largest >> and knock out one at a time incomplete.

And in in most CAA in other cases, if someone was doing this and they had a bunch of debt that they were behind on, we'd be settling these one at a time, but these are settled. So, we don't need to go ask for a discount on these. You if you feel like you're supposed to pay it, I just go pay it.

>> Yeah. >> And just do them one at a time. It's going to take you a little while, though. >> You know, I loved about what he said is, you know, a lot of them were small businesses, and I love the sentiment there. And I think uh I think God will honor that. I do. I do think that he doesn't have to and I agree, but I I think that spirit is really really good.

Well, it's a um

>> yeah, it's hard it's in things like that it's hard to know exactly how to feel, but but the uh >> but you can never go wrong leaning towards integrity, >> right? >> Or extreme integrity or >> weird fanatical integrity. Uh you know, no one's ever mad when you do that, >> right? Um well most I don't no one but very few are very few are.

So yeah it's um yeah it's a process. So yeah very interesting very interesting and Matthew you're a good man to at least be thinking about that.

>> Make sure you got your emergency fund in place. You're avoiding personal new debt of any kind. And then as you have excess

money apply it to this program. Not

scrimping and saving. It's not debt snowball like Gazelle Intensity. Um, it's just as I've got some excess money, maybe I've even got some investing going on. And I'm going to put 50% towards investing and 50% towards this program of my excess money. >> Also love that he went back to work for somebody else. Swallowed his pride. He's being productive. He's not licking his wounds and trying another entrepreneurial venture. I love that.

Great character. That puts us the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 253. You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money | October 2, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmGoKZ_mLXQ) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:05:26 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, one of our most popular shows on the Ramsey Network, is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Jay is in Massachusetts. Hi Jay, how are you? >> Good, thank you. Thanks for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up? >> Well, I'm wondering if I should keep a

certain amount of cash at my house. Um, I had something that came up several months ago. Um, somebody asked me to transfer some money. I opened up my app, my Bank of America app, and everything read zero, all my accounts. And I'm looking at it, I'm saying, well, maybe this is just, you know, I can transfer it anyway. And I tried and it says insufficient funds. And so I call them and I'm on hold for 25 minutes. And then

it hangs up on me. I try calling back and it's busy like the rest of the world's trying to call them at the same time. And finally after about 45 minutes, it it reset itself. And I'm like, I didn't have any money. What if I really needed money and I couldn't get access to that?

>> Well, the problem is not whether you have cash at home. The problem is you're dealing with the world's worst bank.

>> Bank of America sucks

as you have discovered, my friend. So, yeah, you need to get with a small town local bank or a good credit union like Fairwinds Credit Union and um then somebody will actually answer the freaking phone on the other end. But Bank of America is they're they're robotic and ridiculous. No, I wouldn't.

The best thing you can do is stay away from them. Like way away. Now, let's go back though. Can you keep Should you keep cash at home? You can't keep enough cash at home to sustain life if the

entire banking system collapsed and you could never access your money again, right? I mean, so there's not enough cash for that. Besides that, cash probably won't work if that's happened because there's probably something else going on, too. You'll probably just need bullets and water and gasoline at that point. But, um, you know, so I mean, it's like survival stuff, right?

Prepping stuff, that kind of thing. So, but do you want to keep some cash at home just for access? Yeah. I mean, what's the biggest possible event that if you couldn't if you had that happen again >> that you would want to How much money would you want to lay your hands on? And can you do that safely in your neighborhood in a nice safe inside your home? >> Mhm. How much?

Uh >> I don't know, maybe a th000 to $2,000.

>> Yeah. I mean, and and so if somebody broke in and stole that, it probably doesn't ruin your life.

>> Mhm. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And you know, get you a little safe of some kind. I've got a little safe. I throw I'm a redneck. I've always got a thousand bucks in my pocket. That's redneck emergency fund, right? 10 10 10 Uncle Ben, right? Just to say I can. And um and so that you know, I need to replenish those after tips sometimes.

And so I've got a little stack in a little safe. Nothing nothing dramatic, but um >> it just keeps uh makes it a little harder. But if somebody stole all of it, it really wouldn't change my life. And this wouldn't change your life. Would I tell you to keep, you know, half million dollars in home? No.

>> No, I wouldn't pay you to do that.

>> Sure. >> John John, do you have a half million in your safe? >> Half million nickels. Maybe >> nickels that your grandpa left you.

>> That's right. Yeah. No, Jay, I'm with you, man. And I like I like um I it

here's the thing. Most of the time it's an illusion and I've here's a better

example. I got a buddy who's a worldrenowned nutrition expert and I

told him I was taking some supplement and that I suddenly felt better. He laughed and said, "Well, the science doesn't agree with you, but here's what's more important. The placebo effect. The fact that you took this and you feel better is actually a net benefit.

it. So, I'm going to tell you to keep doing it because there's no harm to it. And so, I know that having cash at my house, honestly, is not going to protect me from the meteorite, but it's going to make me sleep a little bit better. And that is in and of itself is worth having it around, right?

on my door selling something. I like to blow their mind every once in a while. And so, yeah, it's fun to have a little cash around. You can have a good time with that. >> Give them 10 or 12,000.

>> Not that much nickels. Yeah. Here, kid.

Here's a thousand nickels. Carry on.

Right. No, but but I like having a little cash around. But but I'm with you, Dave. Like, you can't have don't have half million dollars.

>> And again, if you're it I it depends on the neighborhood. Depends on who's in and out of your house. And I mean, if you got people coming in there that are helping you or something like that. I don't want to create a temptation for someone or those kinds of things.

So, yeah. Yeah. You know, I I would keep >> it makes me feel better. And yeah, that's okay.

Bank of Americas and so forth. They're just mammoth. I mean Wells Fargo had

200,000 employees commit fraud

employees. I mean to start with you had 200,000 employees but you have 200,000 that I mean that's cray cray. Yeah. just how to put your head around that and then you think they're going to notice you with your $8,000 in your checking account. They don't care. >> This suddenly went to zero, which is your whole world. >> Yeah. And it and it's it's doesn't even show up on their seismograph, right? So, yeah. I No, I I want to deal with uh

enough of a click and mortar that I can get my hands around someone's throat. I mean, get somebody on the phone, but yeah, I want I want my money.

>> I'm still old school, man. And I still like to drive down to the bank, sit with I do. I do. And it drives my wife crazy, but I still like to go down and meet with somebody. And those those uh lobbies are getting smaller and smaller, and the number of the staff is getting smaller and smaller, but I uh I I won't

bank with somebody that I can't walk in and shake their hand. >> Yeah. >> Or that I don't have someone's cell number. Like that's just a that's just a it's my money. And for me, it it it's

how I take care of my kids, man. And I think we are sometimes pretty absent- minded about it. Just throwing it up to whatever whatever online bank has the biggest, you know, the best deal or what. Yeah.

I don't know. For me, it's a big deal and I want to go shake somebody's hand. >> Well, it is why that we have partnered up with and now I've even even expanded the partnership with Fairwinds Credit Union. >> Yeah, dude.

>> That's why because they they're just so cool. I mean, they've even done this thing. I just love this right here. So, they've got a new debit card out with the Ramsay bundle.

On the front of it, it says dead is normal.

>> Now, that's a piece of plastic that says dead is normal. Be weird. I that's my favorite thing ever right there. So, but I mean that's that that there that they are not there to put everybody in debt.

They're there to just take care of folks. >> Take care of folks. Yeah. And that means they're going to answer the phone, right?

>> And by and large, credit unions are really the good place to do that. And by and large, your small town, regional, local bank, that's a good thing to that's a good place to park your money and keep it keep your hands on it. And but you need to be like you said thoughtful about that. Not just >> you don't have to be paranoid or weird or conspiracy theory or anything like that.

Um but that's that >> and I'm a bit of a let like I I know I'm an old soul and I like to go shake someone's hand and and I know that's not a thing anymore but there is this idea just be thoughtful about where you're putting it.

Always remember Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You're about to say something to get yourself in trouble. >> Yeah. Well, it just it didn't >> America, you just watched Dave Ramsey experience wisdom. >> No, that was just editing. >> Self-editing. >> It was good. It was really good editing.

>> Tell me an old man can't learn. That's awesome. I just I just felt it. I felt it. It was awesome.

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[Applause] [Music] Everyone needs insurance, but we all kind of hate it really, you know? I mean, like, we hate it sometimes because we don't understand it because we write a lot of checks, doesn't seem like we get anything for it. It's just a pain.

But, you know, you need a good defense and you don't want to buy the wrong kinds of insurance. So, with a Ramsay trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure that they're market experts by us who have your best interest at heart.

You want to find out who's in your area that'll help you with your insurance? Yeah. and do the right thing and teach you in the process, all that stuff. Go to ramseyolutions.com/co and find the type of insurance you're looking for and then connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. You can click the click the link in the show notes, too, if you want. Mason's in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Mason. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so my fiance and I are getting married in a month. Exactly. So, well, >> congratulations. >> Um, I just have a Thank you. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Um we're excited. Um I have a few questions regarding u just making decisions for our future. Making sure that um you know once we get married we believe in what you guys teach. You know we're a family unit. We want to make sure that us as husband and wife are good as a family before you know we're you know prioritizing our you know extended family at that point. So my question would be I have two-prong question if we have time. My first question would be my my parents have a

um basically a mother-in-law suite. It's a guest house on their property. They live on five acres. We have the opportunity to live there. It's a one-bedroom, oneb house for $250 a month

um for the foreseeable future really. Um

so my first prong question would be what's your opinion on that? I mean, should we think about doing that, saving the money up front? We have a um a pretty good income for our our age.

We're you know both one year out of college and we're 22 and 23. So

>> that has you know nothing you know that

would be a step up for us to only have to >> think you dropped your phone or something. >> Sacrifice our marriage and live too close to my parents. >> I can't wait the last dropped your phone. What happened? Can you speak directly into it again?

>> Yes sir. >> Oh there we go. >> I am stuck. Yes sir. Okay. C

>> can you can you Yeah. Stay Stay with me.

Ask that question again. >> Ask the last part of your question. What' you say?

>> Um I I just asked your opinion on us living that close to my parents for, you know, it it is a um it it is a small

amount to pay, but we don't want to sacrifice, you know, living too close to my parents and possibly, you know, hindering our marriage because we're so close to them. >> It depends on the the question beneath the question. Like it's costing you 250 bucks, but what's the real cost?

If they're going to let you be married and not try to interfere with your life and your mom isn't going to try to like

add a daughter to the people she gets to boss around, including you, then no, I would say go get your own place. If they're going to rent you a place in the back of their five acres and let y'all have your marriage and not require you to come to family dinners every night and all that and they're cutting you a break to get you all launched out, that can be a great idea, >> right? That would be more of the scenario that I think we would fall onto fall under because >> of course you say that it's your parents.

What does she say? >> Yeah. What's wife say? >> Right.

Uh she actually agrees. She she we both agree that we would much rather have our own place. But my parents and you know Haley, my fiance, she gets along with my parents and um I mean they don't have any quarrels or any kind. And you know we both agree.

Yeah.

think it's really important that you and your fiance sit down and say, "Okay, when we move in, we're only going to do one meal a week and we're only going to do this six months. We're only going to do this." Y'all create some boundaries and then be a be if you're going to be a grown man, you're getting married, you're getting your own place. Sit down with your parents and say, "Hey, this is important to us that we establish this. Does this sound cool with y'all?" >> Right?

>> It's the unmet expectations, the the unmet I thought you were going to, but you guys aren't. we're doing this for y'all and why aren't you doing this for us?

>> Right. So, so it's not the proximity, it's it's the not having boundaries and the proximity could be no issue if we set those boundaries and are firm with them. Um Okay. Um >> Yeah. And and you know, the other thing is if they become a problem, just jet.

Yeah. Move.

>> Right. Right. Um, our other our other part with that would be, um, I do have a car payment that I am, you know, heavily thinking about getting out of. Um, I she has a small amount of student loans and like I said, we have a a fairly good income for our >> What is your all's income? You mentioned that twice. >> Um, it it's about 95.

>> Good. Good. That'll be your combined income. >> That would be our combined. Yes, sir.

>> And how old are you? And you're like 24, you said, right? 23. Yeah. Yeah.

>> No, sir. I'm I'm 22. 22. Okay, cool.

Good for y'all. Well done.

>> I do owe 20,000 on my truck. It's worth about 24. Um, and it's about $400 a

month. Uh, but like I said, you know, I

currently live with my parents and she's currently living in that house because she works closer to the city that I live in. Um, but we aren't living together.

But I am paying I'm paying my dad, like I said, a very small amount, $250 a month. And I can afford the $400. But I mean, I've listened to you since I was young, and it was it's just been something on my mind to kind of get that out of the way before I get married and not have that payment. >> Well, you're not going to make it by next week.

>> You say you're getting married next week. >> Next month. >> Month? Yeah. I don't think you're going to pay off 20 grand by next month, are you? >> I I wouldn't, but it's a possibility of selling it and then getting a different vehicle. >> Yeah, you could do that. I mean, that's okay. So you you if you've been listening a long time, you know our general math rule of thumb is don't own vehicles, things with motors and wheels

that add up to more than half your annual income. And so if her car is

25,000, then you're there. And I don't think it is. Um so you know, the second

thing is is if you can't be debtree everything but the house within two years by keeping the car, then the car is too much. And neither of those are true in this case. You could be debtree in a year easy and your truck is less

than half your annual income. But it wouldn't kill you to sell it and get a $4,000 truck. It's paid for and y'all start your life fresh and just start stacking cash, man. Just start stacking cash and start talking about buying a house in a year and a half or two years and see how big a big old pile of money you can make because you're driving a lesser truck.

Um, and that won't kill you. Either one is okay. You're Neither one is going to stunt your financial growth substantially, but um you know what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Uh I'd probably sell the truck personally, but it's not it's not like you're in the stupid column if you don't.

I've done the I did the exact thing when I was a few years into being married. Sold the truck and had to take a check to to the to the title company because I was underwater on it. But I just I wanted to be clear of it. So, >> you know what I would do is this.

>> It's a good call. >> You don't need to make the decision right now with all this other stuff swimming around. Let's just get married,

get settled in, get in the rhythm of life, then go, "Yeah, truck's going." Or, "No, I want to keep it and we'll knock it out." Either one's fine with me. And again, you need agreement from your spouse, not your parents on that.

So, um yeah, the um uh the big issue on

your first question, I agree with John, is just uh can we actually have and set

up a an independent household emotionally and relationally with reasonable boundaries being in this apartment? Some people can.

>> Mhm. >> Um truth is not many.

>> Not many. What would you say? One in 10.

>> Uh I don't know. >> Two and two and 10 maybe. Maybe. I mean, it depends on so many different factors.

I think that this is one of those things that rarely is this the solution to everything. Usually, when people say, "Hey, I need help with working on my communication with my spouse." Usually that means I want them to do what I say.

Right? In this case, communication is actually the answer, which is make sure you're communicating with your parents, make sure you're communicating with each other, and you'll set up these regular rhythms where you can look her in the eye and say, "Are we still good? We still going to be here?" And she's like, "I I got to go." And you're like, "Cool.

We're getting out of here." because she's the priority. Your your new wife.

Um not your mom.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And where are you in the birth order and you're the first one to leave home, break your mother's heart and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. All that stuff shows up in it. >> Yeah. >> But 250 bucks rent, man.

>> Pretty sweet. >> It can set you up for a a totally different life if y'all can can talk your way through this. >> If you difference, if you bank it, bank the difference. Stack the cash, baby.

Stack the cash. That's pretty sweet.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm just thinking our kids are and the eight grandkids are all within 25 minutes. And I don't just show

up on their doorstep, nor are you mandated to do any family gathering

unless you've committed to it. >> If you say you're in, you're in. >> If you said you're in, we expect you to be in. We're ordering food. Yeah. >> But don't just go, "Oh, no. I mean, we we're freaking cooking for you." >> It's not Ray Romano's family, right?

>> Exactly. No popping out here. That's popping in, popping out stuff. But other than that, I mean, it's Yeah, we have not had any major issues with that. Knock on wood. There you go.

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Mattie's in Minnesota. Hi, Maddie. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. I'm so happy to be here.

>> Honored to have you. How can we help?

>> Okay, so quick baby step question. This is kind of flipping the script for us.

We just started binging the show and starting the baby steps. Um, I want to keep our somewhat new Toyota family minivan and snowball it, but my husband wants to sell it to become debtree. We both have ADHD and get really into things, but then fail at continuing like new hobbies, for example. And I'm scared if we go for a quick sex and sell the minivan, we'll be, oh, we're we'll be like, oh, we're debtree.

We're good to go now.

>> Self-awareness is a pretty cool thing.

[Laughter] >> Way to go. That's neat. That's very observant because that's actually a true statement about all of us that um if we

get a quick fix, we it doesn't off it doesn't stick as often as if we have to gut it out. Right.

>> Um right. And so, yeah, that that's that's true of all of us. Uh, so the van

is has how much owed on it?

>> 20. >> And how much debt do you guys have, not counting your house?

>> Um, just almost student loans. 4,000 left of student loans.

>> So, the van and one student loan.

>> Yep. >> 24,000 and you're debtree,

>> right? >> Not count. Not count the house. Yeah.

Okay. Less than a year in theory, right?

>> And your household income is what?

>> 160. >> Do you hate the van?

>> No, we love the van.

>> You should not sell the van. >> Keep the van >> for not because of your reasoning, but just the van is a it's not out of line in your situation. It's it's just

represents a quick fix. But not because it's a quick not I wouldn't tell you. I think your reasoning is sound, but I think you ought to just keep this van just because it's a good van and you can pay it off pretty quick and because you're gonna have to Here's what's going to happen. If you sell the van, what are you going to be doing?

Saving up money to buy another van, >> right? Exactly. Yeah. >> You know, so and you make 160 and you'll be able to do that pretty quick.

And so you're selling the van. Why? So I can buy another one in a year or in eight months or something.

>> No, I would just um Right. Yeah. No, I I would just buckle down, pay it off, and you will get the benefit of the thing you brought up while you're doing that.

>> Yep. Yep. >> What do y'all do for a living? What's the 160 coming from? It's a great income.

>> Uh, thank you. It's You'll be shocked by that's my husband is a social worker and I'm an artist. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. And so here's

what's um back to your original point

then that is super valid. Um neither one

of you are by your careers anyway are um

process people.

Okay. You are you deal with a lot of subjective things not objective things

>> and um in order to win at money you have

to develop some processes that you stick to. And that was in a sense what you said at the opening of the call. You said the exact same thing with a lot of wisdom. >> Yep.

>> Okay. And so um >> the uh I'll give you an example. We live in Nashville and so a lot of the country music people are my friends and uh there's two types of country music people. The ones that are pure artists and then there are those that are artists and actually have some business acumen.

usually get taken to the cleaners by some crooked manager. And the ones that

have a little bit of business acumen become household names for for decades.

Oh, thank you. I'm I guess artist turned

business owner is my career. So >> Okay. Oh, you're running a business.

>> Yes. Yeah. You get a kick out of this maybe. We sell custom paint by number kits of people's pets. So customers send us a photo. >> Oh, I thought you were like I thought you were standing in front of an easel.

Paint by numbers is a process. This is awesome. Okay, you're making my point for me. Okay, I bet George Camel has 50 of your products for his little precious dogs. That's awesome. Good for you.

>> Okay, now Okay, now I get >> y'all need them. Have y'all ever done a thing um longer than your marriage? Have y'all

ever stuck to a workout program, a nutrition program, a anything like that longer than your marriage?

>> Uh for me, being an artist/ business owner, but that's basically it.

>> Okay, >> so that's a good point. y'all. I want y'all to practice this like you're um like like it's a new muscle, >> okay? >> Because you're gonna find your marriage is going to get better on the back end of y'all grinding this thing out together. And we're not talking seven years like most like or multiple years like most people who call. Y'all are talking like a few months. Y'all make a ton of money. Y'all can pay this off.

>> Yeah. >> But I want y'all to practice building this muscle. >> So I I completely made the wrong assumption about you. Obviously, you are a systems and a process person and so u the very nature of paint by number. Oh my gosh. >> But I mean but also like I I I >> Yeah, that's going to but that's going to lend itself to the wisdom of her question the way she posed her question.

And so yes, go keep the van and you guys let that be the first part of your muscle of you working together, working money as a system, as a process. Build it. Let's build that muscle. Like John's saying, that's the answer. >> Yeah, it's a it's a good it's a good exercise. >> Very cool. Good. I love it, Maddie. I love it. people. It's one of my favorites. >> Very well done. Nicole is in Ohio. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

>> Hello. I'm good, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I'm calling because um my husband

and I got married a year and a half ago.

Um it's both of our second marriage. So,

I was married um for 20 plus years um

sharing finances with my um former spouse and he was single for 15 years or

divorced for 15 years when we met. And so this month is our first month having our budget meeting and um we make um I

wouldn't say significantly different amounts, but enough for it to be a

difference. And so I just wanted to find out if I could get some suggestions on how to go about um approaching it so that we can start saving for our um dreams and goals and things like that.

>> Good for you. Good for you. Well, the fact that you've been through one that failed and he's been single a long time with no boss in his life except the guy in his mirror makes it harder for the

two of you to just go, "Woohoo! We're both going to throw in and go." Right? U if you were 22 and you didn't have any of these scars or any of these ruts where you were stuck in singleness for 15 years or anything like that, you would just jump in and go, "Woo, let's go." But you guys, this is going to be hard for y'all. Teaching an old dog new tricks is tough, right?

>> Yes. Yes. >> But it's going to be worth it. It's going to be worth it. >> Jesus said your treasure is where your heart is. When you agree on your spending, you're agreeing on what you value, what you prioritize. You're agreeing on your fears. You're agreeing on your dreams. It's not the money that matters. is that we're agreeing on where the money's going and that that means we're agreeing on what's important.

>> Okay? >> And that's a big thing. And that's going to be that there's going to be some polishing going on. There's going to be this the a couple of these rocks are a little rough and they're not going to be smooth stones easy. You're going to have to you're going to have to hold your breath a couple times, girl.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because he is the type

where he wants to be, you know, he's a

manly man. if that makes sense. And so I

don't want to be I don't know if we should do like percentages or >> No, no, no. You need to do dollars.

Manly men work with their wives all the time. >> And manly men put their their childish egos aside for building something that's greater than themselves, which is 1 plus 1 equals one when you get married.

>> Yes. Yes. And you have to have the courage when you're putting your money in the same checking account to say the words, "This makes me very scared." >> Yeah. The last bozo messed me up. And you're not that bozo, but I I still have that scar.

>> And a manly man wants his partner to feel safe.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it.

>> But there might What you're saying is there might be a hunting rifle in the budget somewhere.

>> Yes.

Correct. >> That's okay. That can be there. And there could be a nice pair of shoes in there for you, too. I don't care. I just want you to be in agreement on it and not come in and go, "Look what I did, honey." No, no, no, no. We're going to be in agreement. We're going to decide in ahead of time what we're going to do. We're going to walk together. Um because as John said, 1 plus 1 equals 1.

Actually, it equals probably about five because you get the power of synergy, the marriage advantage, all the data calls it.

[Music] All

right.

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? Defaulted

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>> Today's question comes from Molly in Minnesota. Molly writes, "My partner and I bought a house together, but I'm the one who made the down payment." Well, I can already tell you we got a problem.

He shares the monthly payment expense, but hasn't said anything about paying me back for half the money I put down.

Okay. Should I ask him to take out a helock? Just Molly, no. Y'all break up.

Just break up and sell the house and move on. Should I ask him to take out a heliloc and pay it off to pay me back

for his half of the down payment?

>> You know what's interesting is is this is the actual first time I've seen the proper use of the word partner.

>> Oh, like like my >> this is like a business partner.

>> Yeah. And he owes me money.

>> Oh, by the way, I sleep with him >> on on the building I bought. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, no. You're well, y'all got

number one, don't take off a heliloc. This is you're like you're trying to punish him. Don't do that. Um, because

y'all bought a house together and so you telling him to take out a heliloc that he has to pay back um actually puts your house at risk. Don't do that. That's silly. The bigger issue here is y'all have some major fractures in your relationship and um you'll need to address those on the front end.

You should have addressed them before you entered into a legal binding contract um called the purchase of a house together, but y'all are already here. Um yeah, y'all got big issues.

>> Um can I pull the pin and throw the grenade? >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. Here we go. Um

you have two choices to fix this, Molly.

get married by Saturday

and stop this shacking up crap because you're doing things backwards or sell the house.

Those are the only two ways you will survive this.

Both ways you have a potential to survive it, but you're not going to survive it the way you are. It's not going to work

because you entered into a business arrangement with a person you're sleeping with with absolutely no written partnership documents and this is going

to go sideways and you have no out when it goes sideways.

He could just leave

and you never see him again and you can't even find him to get the house sold because you can't get him to sign the deed. he could

be in a car wreck. That happened to one caller and she called me up and said, "Yeah, now I own the house with his mom

because, by the way, he doesn't have a will either cuz you people aren't real good about doing paperwork on stuff, I can tell." And so he didn't have a will.

So guess who his heir is? It's not his girlfriend that he sleeps with. I can tell you that. That' be his mom and dad.

That'd be who gets the stuff if there's no will. The bloods. And so now you are

partners in a house with the mother of a

guy who didn't repay your his portion of the down payment. Oh, this is not going to go well. Molly people never. Let me help you with this.

The word was never. I didn't have a caveat. There was no except. It's a complete never. Capital n v.

buy a house with someone you're not married to under any circumstances.

Period.

Everything that can go wrong in this life will go wrong at some time or another. And you are stuck in a house

with that guy. You find out he's doing cocaine. You find out he's got a secretary that he's more in love with than you. You find out and you're just stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck with

no legal or business recourse to get your little butt out of this mess. And you're just beginning to discover how uncomfortable that is when this one little tiny thing about the down payment didn't come up. Like, you guys shouldn't have talked about that on the front end.

I think they did. And he's just not quote unquote paying her back.

>> Oh, but what happens when he doesn't do what he says he's going to do? Then he then he needs to go take out a helock.

>> Yeah. >> And Yeah. >> Off and put and put us as a lean on my house. No, >> this is dumber than crud. >> Yeah. I'm deadly serious. There's only

two ways to fix this. >> I I I'm going to I want to caveat. I don't think they should get married. I think there's too many issues here.

>> I know, but I'm just saying to protect her. >> Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. >> You know, but yeah, because so so at least when there's a divorce, right, >> she has a there's a there's a legal mechanism for getting rid of this stupid house.

Jesus. >> But right now, there's no legal mechanism for getting rid of this stupid house, except getting rid of this stupid house. So, and here's another prediction. She ain't going to do any of it.

>> No. >> So, we're just telling you all these stories so that the rest of y'all don't do what Molly did. That's the only reason we brought it up cuz Molly ain't going to do anything except what Molly wants. I can tell.

>> Well, I wonder, can I ask you this? This is just fun.

of Minnesota I wonder if he would have um like eviction rights like if she went dumped him today and said get out of this house. >> Who gets the house? >> Who gets the house? Who has >> who has to who gets to stay? And then I got to give you 30 days eviction and then you got to get 30 days and it's going to go to court and I got squatters. Right. Like this could get really messy really quick.

>> Like you know >> like spray spray can lines down the middle of the hallway. This is my half. This is your house. >> My dishes. That's my half the sink. No water on my side of the sink. >> That's your tobasco. Yeah. Oh my god.

Yeah. This This is so bad, y'all. This

is people acting like they're married when they're not married. And the whole system in the United States is not set up for you. Sorry, darling. The English

law does not English law is what we're modeled after, and it doesn't set up with the exception Louisiana, which is French law, and it's not set up for it either. So, just to help y'all, that's the way this stuff is laid out. You're screwed in these messes.

My gosh. All right. Carmen's in Colorado. Hi, Carmen. What's up?

>> Hi. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Thanks for answering my call. I'm calling in today because my husband and I need your help on what to do um to get out of debt and start saving for a house. My husband is 22 years old. I'm

24 and we have a one-year-old son. My husband is in his second year of electrician apprenticing through a union and I just went back to work in July as a dental assistant.

So my husband gets paid weekly. His

gross pay before taxes on a check is about 900, but after taxes is like 6.96.

And then so for the whole month it's about 2,784.

I get paid bi-weekly. My pay for the month is about 15-1,800 a month. Um my

husband pays all the bills which altogether our bills are about 2,753.

Um so with his check as you can tell

we're left with maybe a few dollars after his check after the bills but including inside the bills we have tithing which is 240. So every week we

put in $60 from his check to tithe. Um,

I pay my car payment and then the groceries and gas that adds up.

>> How much do you owe on your car, hun?

>> So, here's the stupid thing that we just did. Um, I had a 2021 Jeep Compass. It

was about 22,000 that I owed on it and

the car was getting too small. We couldn't fit the baby's car seat in there. >> How much do you owe on your car, honey?

>> 44,000.

Now, >> you have to sell your car. here. That car is going to bankrupt you.

>> That car That car is in the land of crazy. >> If you look up crazy in the dictionary, you're going to see a picture of this car.

>> Yeah. Okay. That's what me and my husband have been talking about, too, about selling his truck on.

>> You need to get a $4,000 car that you pay cash for.

>> Okay. So, that's one thing, too. We only

have a,000 in our emergency fund.

>> Good. That's a good start.

>> And the two and you know your you know your numbers. So even though he's been paying the bills, sounds like y'all are working on this together. That's really good news. You're doing a good job with that. >> Yeah. But the the car is like way over in crazy land. >> Are you going to sell it or not? >> Yeah.

>> Well, you said to sell it. So >> I know I said to sell it. I asked if you were going to do it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good. >> This weekend? >> Yes. >> This weekend? Put Put a for sale sign on it. Let's go. >> Okay. cuz the car owns y'all. You don't own it.

>> Yes. >> And then that's going to free up so much. And then you guys keep doing your every dollar budget. We're going to give you a free year for every dollar.

And it's going to give you a step-by-step thing of exactly what to do after you get out from under this car payment and how you can walk your way into some savings out of debt and start talking about building the life. Cuz right now, y'all don't make much money, but you're just getting started and you'll get there. And he'll be making more money as he gets out of the apprenticeship. Right now he's starving to death.

No, y'all will get there.

the chain.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey.

Brittany is in Indiana. Hi Britney, how are you? >> Hi, great. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? I am calling. We uh paid off our house in 2023. Awesome.

>> And we uh yeah, we have no debt. We are

>> uh following your baby steps and your advice as much as we can. Um the reason I'm calling is we don't feel the sense of freedom, I guess, that we kind of expected or wanted because we're currently saving for a big home renovation. Um, our house was built in the 70s and has a lot of the original exterior components and a lot of them are um in need of being replaced.

They're quickly going from a cosmetic need to those windows need replaced type

thing. Um, and we're still trying to balance the enjoying freedom with our

house paid off with staying intense so

that we can get that rena done and then really feel free. And I guess we were just I was just looking for some words of wisdom or perspective on how to stay patient while you're saving for a big project like that.

>> Well, it is devastating that no matter what stage of money you get at, you find out it's finite, >> right? >> It's just a pain in the butt. Um it doesn't matter what you're driving that there's always another one to drive. It doesn't matter where you live, there's always another one to live. And you never really arrive at that. Contentment

is kind of a bully in the schoolyard. It says, "Step across this line and I'll punch you." You step across the line, it backs up and draws another line.

>> You know, it's a moving target, this contentment thing. And um and that

that's, you know, I've run into it, too.

I I completely relate to the feeling

that you have. Um it's like you you kind

of thought when you got here it was going to be easy >> or you you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. You can just do whatever you want, right? >> Yeah. And it's not you you you intellectually didn't think it was going to be unlimited, but emotionally you felt like you were going to feel like you were unlimited. >> Like I'm a millionaire. I don't have to budget anymore.

>> What was that? >> It's like I'm a millionaire. I shouldn't have to budget anymore, right?

>> Well, we we do still budget. I mean, and I >> No, I know you do. I'm just I'm talking about feel the feeling feeling the emotion. It's annoying. Yeah.

>> Yeah, it is annoying. And it's also um

it's hard because we thought well we would be able to use more of our our so-called extra money for things like bigger nicer vacations with the kids and things like that. But I feel like >> well you could if you move

and hey I want to call out what Dave just said. Here's my promise to you. The day these renovations are over. If you and your husband don't get together ASAP and change how you experience the world, you're going to find yourself in yet another self-created prison

because y'all haven't made the switch to we are choosing to live in an old house, which means we are choosing to update this stuff. Some stuff has to be done, some stuff doesn't, but we're going to.

These are all choices. You're not owned by it, >> right? >> Yeah. There's two ways to fix an old house. Fix it or move.

right? If we were to move, I even I have considered that thought. Maybe we're maybe we would be better off moving, but we there's repairs that would have to be made regardless. So, it's we're kind of >> Yeah, but the point is the point is you're choosing >> you're choosing it. You're free. >> You're choosing. You're free to make a choice. Thank God >> you don't have this window project and a house payment. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and two car payments and student loans.

>> Yeah. you you'd be what's known as up a creek, right? No paddle. Yeah.

All that, right? It's the whole thing. I mean, so you're you really are, you know, you kind of got to look back in the rearview mirror and go, "Thank God." You know, uh I had a heat and air system go out on one of our properties the other day and it was like $10,000 or something we had to spend and I went, "Thank God that's an inconvenience." >> Yeah. It's annoying.

>> It's annoying versus a freaking catastrophe. Yeah. >> You know, which is what it used to be. Everything was a catastrophe.

When your life when you're broke, your life looks like a country song. You know, keep the dog out of the street, it'll get hit. I mean, come on. Everything that'll go on can go wrong.

dad gum drama. It's an emergency. It's it's that old CS Lewis quote that hell is is locked on the inside. Like y'all

have created yet another prison and then yet another prison and yet it's going to be a pattern until you all decide to exhale and say, "We are free. We're choosing to live in this house. we're choosing to go through these renovations and this is going to be a pain in the butt and we've done it before, we can do it again. And you you laugh and you kind of get that snarl and then you go get it versus this is happening to us. We are

stuck here. This it's a victim mindset.

It's it's a scarcity mindset versus a no, we can do whatever we want and we're making this choice right here. It's just a totally different >> You're in control. You're making a choice. You chose to do the windows and delay the travel.

And that's not a bad choice. >> No, it's a great choice. It's an annoying choice. It's probably the right choice.

Even if you turn around and sell the house, like you said, we got to fix it up to sell it. Even if we're going to do that, that's okay, too. That's all a good choice. The great news is you have choices.

>> Yeah, that's it. >> For two reasons. You got choices. >> Two reasons.

One is you put yourself in this position. And two is God chose for you to be born in America where you still have choices >> as opposed to someone just dictating to you what you're going to do. So, um, yeah, that's the cool thing.

because I'm the spender. Okay, at my house, Sharon's the natural saver. I'm the natural spender. And so I'm reading these scriptures and it says godliness with contentment is great gain. And so I go down the rabbit hole. I start studying contentment because I'm like, where do you find this? I want to buy a box of it. you know, I need some of this cuz I

I I've been go get it, go get it, go get it, acquisition, acquisition, acquisition my whole young life in particular in in my 20s, right? So, it's Jaguars and Rolexes and I I'm going to I'm going to acquire. I'm going to I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when. And you know, the bully in the schoolyard backs up, draws draws a new line, says, "Come on." Then you come on, he said, "Do it again.

Do it." You never really get to hit him in the nose.

And so I but after we went broke,

I went to Costco where you can buy 25

pounds of peanut butter and you can buy 73 of anything you need one of.

And they check your little receipt when you're going out because it's federal law. You have to spend $200 in there. If you don't spend it, they make you go back and finish, right? And so that's

why they check the receipt. And I distinctly remember I can take you to the Costco. I had a spiritual experience. I walked out of Costco

buying nothing.

It was like a breakthrough.

>> I think there's a statue of you in a >> I think there's a breakthrough. You know, it was like, you know, it was like, I don't have to have any of this

today. >> And it was like something snapped. It was real. Yeah. It was real. And godliness with contentment is a great gain. And I became convinced that contentment might be the most powerful financial principle. If you don't have contentment, you get into debt. If you do have contentment, you can save. If you don't have contentment, you're always at odds with your spouse about money. If you do have contentment, the two of you are just trying to figure out how much you can give away.

>> It's a it's a breakthrough. It's a financial breakthrough like like none of the other financial principles we teach. >> It's true freedom. Yeah. It's very powerful. It's a great call. I appreciate you calling so much. I completely relate to you, Britney. I understand your feeling. Um, it's a very human feeling that it's just it's a it's a journey you're on and you'll get there.

[Music]

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[Music]

So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an

application.

So, we decided that Ramsay should have an app that would do your budget. And we

worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really

over the last uh decade or so the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called Every Dollar because Every Dollar has an assignment by you.

You assign every one of your dollars a place to go. Give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars and uh in

programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and um have

managed to integrate into it the whole

Ramssey plan, the Ramsy way. So, like

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Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine

how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The allnew Every Dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Jake. How are you? >> Good, guys. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So me and my wife were 24. Um fresh out of college a few years ago. Uh so we decided to uh build a home, our forever

home. Um and the cost kind of got out of

control. our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. Um they actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. Uh there's a different story behind that, but they're very uh they've accumulated some wealth over the years. Um they've handed us over a lump sum of money um to help

us build this house um and whatever is left over we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Um me and my wife make about 130,000 a year um before taxes um

with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is and we we do have a um a good amount of savings from the past years of working about $120,000 in savings. Um >> I'm sorry. You have $120,000 in savings.

>> Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

>> They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. Um, and so they want to help every single one of their kids out. Um, I'm one of three brothers. >> Yeah. But you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

>> Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

>> So, what happened with the house? You got You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house? >> Uh, yeah. So, we're building. Um.

>> Oh, you're still building? >> Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. >> Oh, you just started building?

>> Yes. So, the deal was with them um was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I worked for them actually. Um, and they wanted

this what they wanted to do for us and so we kindly accepted it. Um, and any

cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, uh, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And, and so I guess my question is is me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking my kids right now. Um, do we

give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning? Um, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and and have fun in our early 20s? >> So, do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel?

>> That's in essence what this where this lands when I say it that way. Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me? >> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay. Yeah. No,

you you you like did grown up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old.

pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? >> Very good. >> The shest ways and >> the shest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

>> Okay. >> And I know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, "No, it's no big deal. It's no big deal." Just take it from two older guys.

>> Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now. >> Yeah. I think I heard a two-stage deal here. like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more.

Is that right? >> Yes. They loaned us the full amount of

whatever it cost for the house we're paying for it in cash >> um to build. So they're not taking loan out from any they're they've been completely debtree since 2008.

>> I know. But you now owe them >> Yes. >> a mortgage payment.

>> Okay. So that part where they went through financial peace university, they flunked the class cuz we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money.

>> Oh my god. >> Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. >> Yeah. The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

>> Understood. Oh. So, how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

>> Um, probably going to be around 200 to 250,000.

>> Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you? >> Um, about 50% of the total cost to

build. So, about 200 250,000.

>> So, you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

>> Uh, yes.

>> Dang, Gina. Okay.

>> It's a lot of house, dude. It's a lot of house. >> All right. Um, well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation.

Yes, you need to 100 do the take the 130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents, >> okay? because I don't want this mortgage.

Um, I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of paying back. Um, here

here's here's what what I would say. I can see myself working really hard so

that I can I can bulldoze a path for my

son and his new wife. I get that.

But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, "Dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your like I don't I don't want you to be my banker." I would be so

proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking this by I'm taking the reigns here. It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. Uh I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad.

Cuz the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It it just ends in somebody

wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to.

And it's like, well, after all we've It just It's just a recipe for disaster.

But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. >> It's a$1 $120,000 mortgage.

>> It's a tiny tiny tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y'all make. Uh >> if you don't go on trips. >> Yeah, if you don't go to Europe. And by the way, you're I don't know, Dave.

Trips are more fun when I when I'm older now. I don't know why. They just are.

>> Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home.

Um but and in essence, that's what this ends up being. Well, I don't have I don't have >> increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad >> by the amount that we spend on the trips. >> And so it's like borrowing on the trip, borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously that would be ludicrous. So moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, um uh which was an F,

um here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and uh part of the

bargain is they never borrow money again cuz you want your family tree to be completely changed. Great. Never make

your child your grown child, your slave.

You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were, but they're very real. And no one

is the exception. Even a nice master is

a master. [Music]

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[Music]

Tim is in Ohio. Hey Tim, what's up?

>> It's Ken. Ken.

>> Oh, sorry. Hey, Kelly. It's Ken.

>> That's okay. >> KN. Okay. I was just reading my screen.

Pardon me. How can I help? >> That's no problem. Yes, Dave. Um, so I

uh year and a half ago I got into your program and stuff and let me thank you

from the bottom of my heart cuz that completely changed everything for me.

Um, and with I'm married now and my wife

is 62. I am 55 and um I work for the state and I have

opers and we have to we don't have a

choice. we have to put in 10% of our gross income into that and then the state also matches that 10% and adds 4%.

My wife's 401k they do know do do not have any company match uh her late husband only would

allow her five to 6% and not aggressive

at all. So, there's not much in there,

but we currently have 27,500

in debt. There's 44,000 in that account.

And then we have our house.

um and crunching the numbers and looking

at things. If we take the 27,500

out of there and just wipe out that debt, that allows us to pay the house

off in under 5 years and 18 months more

of investing at $3,000 a month. Does

that make sense to you?

>> She's 62. 6'2.

How old is she?

>> She's 62. So, yes, we understand we'll

be on the hook for taxes, but we are >> Yeah, the 44. It's going to take the whole 44,000 to clear 27.

>> Okay. >> So, or close. I mean,

give or take a,000 bucks for two, but it's not I mean, you're going to have to pay taxes on $44,000. Going to be at least 10 grand, right?

>> Hello. Well, we would be in the 12% tax bracket.

>> Why y'all don't work?

>> Yes, we work. >> How are you in a 12% tax bracket?

>> Because of filing jointly and you take

the first 10% off of that and then we uh

go into the the rest of it goes into the

12%. Then >> what's your household income?

>> Uh about 75,000 a year. >> Okay. I I don't think you're doing that right, but I'm not a tax pro. I can't do it in front of I can't do it off the top of my head. Anyway, uh you're going to have taxes. It's going to eat up a lot of the 40,000. And so, you're basically

going to cash out her retirement at 62 years old, pay the taxes, no penalties, and pay off her debt. Yes, I would do that. But make sure you set this money aside for tax.

>> Okay. >> And have somebody else calculate it other than you and me because neither one of us are very good at it, I don't think. >> Yeah. I don't think you're calculating that right, but >> but anyway, the uh Yeah, but I think the either way you're going to use up most of it either way.

So, um >> tell me the math behind that, Dave. Like, somebody 62 going to go ahead and pull it. >> Well, I mean, if you've got retirement and he's got a bunch and then they're going to uh you know, we don't tell people to cash out their retirement and pay before they're retired, >> but at 62 your retirement age.

And I don't want to pay that 10% penalty, but you're going to pay your taxes on it. But, you know, like if we have somebody call in, they owe $300,000 on their house and they've got $900,000 in their 401k, I'll pay off the house out of that. >> If they're 62 or older. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because I no penalty on it.

Pay off their house. That's what you It's what you saved it up for. And in this case, it's just a blended family, a second marriage thing. And it's just a weird little account. Yeah. It's not a big account, but um but it doesn't it doesn't really change the the principle is yes, if you have enough in retirement

and you can clear all your debts even and pay your taxes that you create by doing that, I would do that as long as you've got some left over and of course they've got all of his and they're both continuing to work and they're going to put $3,000 a month back into the program. So that's that's where we're going. Yeah, that that's no different than Yeah. Very very good. Christine's in Virginia. Hi Christine, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing well, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, I recently I recently discovered you

about a month ago, and I'm hooked now on your little cult, which I'm happy to be.

>> Yes. We're going to send you some We're going to send you some Kool-Aid here in the mail.

>> Awesome. Um, my question is, my husband

and I are in about $87,000 of debt. Um,

I'm 60. He's 62.

Um, I want to start your program desperately. We both do. Um, but my concern is that of that debt, 68,000 is

in a debt settlement program.

>> Doesn't mean you can't pay it off. >> I can't.

>> Really? >> Yeah. >> I thought, well, aren't I obligated to them for the 55 months I signed up for?

>> Nope.

You've already paid them. They got all their money up front. The first handful of payments you paid them paid them.

>> They didn't none of your payments, the first handful went to the debt. It went to them and then and then what they've done is destroyed your credit and have put you in default on everything and then set up payment plans with everybody.

>> Um but I mean I would do it as a lump sum. I'd probably do it as a lump sum.

What kind of debt? How much of the 87 is in that?

>> 68. >> Oh yeah, you said okay. All right. And what's your household income?

>> Uh we make about a h 100,000 together.

>> Okay. Well, you may find that it's easier to just lump sum it and call them up and go, "Okay, help me settle lump sums on this rather than payments. Ask

the ask the debt settlement company to do that." How many different debts are in the 68?

>> Uh let's see. I was just looking at it.

My problem with them is that they're not doing very well because we've had them actually.

>> Oh, I I was hooked. I was hooked line and sinker. I will not lie.

>> Um >> it's been since January and they've only settled two accounts. Probably

>> 10. >> Okay. All right. And they've settled two of them. Okay. Well, what I would do is call them up and say, "Hey, I'm going to start advancing some cash towards this and you're going to get more aggressive cuz I'm going to you're going to feel my foot on your butt."

>> I don't have an any extra cash to send them though. >> I know you do. If you're going to get out of debt,

you make a h 100,000, something's going to change. You're going to get on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're not going out to eat. We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless we're working there. We're not going on vacation. We're not spending any money on anything cuz we're 60 years old and deeply in debt and we got to get this crap cleaned up. >> Christmas presents. >> Yeah, we're we're sending cards this year instead of presents for everybody.

>> Yeah, everybody. Here we go. The worm has turned. Times have changed.

It's about to change, baby. I mean, you got to get you got to get after it. And uh cuz you don't you don't want to be 70 and be looking at the you know, half this debt still laying there cuz you've been toying around with it. So, uh, but go ahead and clear the other f other portion first and, um, then when you get to the debt settlement 68, then start being on the phone with them going, "Okay, uh, need to settle one more of these.

Could be as early as 2 years, probably a little more than two years to get through that. But you're going to have to be living on nothing. Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. Honey.

>> Blankets. Blankets. Sweaters in the house. All of it.

>> That whole thing. Turn the thermostat.

>> Turn the I mean, but like it's a it's a mind shift, man. >> You got you got to have to go. And here's the thing. As as you know, you you don't have a lot of time to do this.

It's not like you got 40 years to figure this out. You got 40 months to figure this out. So, you need to get with it.

And um you can do it. you can absolutely do it. But the uh debt settlement companies, boys and girls, uh the way they work is um they collect payments from you for five years. The first set of payments they collect from you, they put 100% of it in their pocket while letting all of your credit cards and other stuff go into default.

Then they go to the creditors and say, "Oh, these are in default. What will you take as settlement?" And so even if you weren't in default, they put you there. That's their process. That's how they do it.

And that's why we tell you not to do that stuff.

Snuggy ad and a gold ad on cable TV is

pitching you something financial, stay away from it.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Well, it happens occasionally. We've uh got one of our friends stopped in here.

The one and only Tim Tibo. Welcome, my friend. >> Thank you guys. So good to see y'all. Thanks for having me. >> Good to see you again. So, we were just talking papa stuff before you uh as you walked in. Uh got a new baby.

>> We do. Almost 3 months old. It's crazy now. I feel like I'm actually getting old. And uh little gray in the beard

there. You got to be careful. a little gray in the beard. My wife though, >> but it's it has just been >> such a crazy blessing. And you know, a lot of people ask like, >> you know, being a dad, is it a different kind of love than you knew? And I thought a lot about it and I don't know because the moment Demi said she was pregnant, I think I already felt it.

>> But I'll tell you what hits you is the responsibility. Like when we get home, >> I was like, "Oh, we got to change this cabinet. We got to change this countertop. this could she could get injured on she could do this. You're like you're trying to think >> 10 steps ahead and five years ahead and that level of responsibility is surreal.

>> I always tell somebody it's like somebody just adds two more plates on the squat rack and it just that it just it sits under you and you're like oh this heavy, right? >> It is. >> So the Tim Tibo is a two-time national champion, Heisman trophy winner, first round NFL draft pick, speaker, college football analyst, five times New York Times bestselling author. I think you've been on here four of those times if I remember.

So, I'll take credit for a little of that. He's the founder and the leader of the Tim Tibo Foundation.

obviously anti anti Well, I mean,

>> yeah. I mean, we've done we we're both share a love of uh several people that are in that in that space and you your team is in that space big time and uh so we've had a lot of different things we've done together. New book out, look again, recognize your worth, renew your hope, run with confidence. Now, I do

know you well enough to know the truth is is that you don't just sit down and randomly go, "Oh, time to do a book." right? >> Um that something had to be burning and churning inside of you that you couldn't not say. >> And so where's that come from on this one? >> Uh it was really inspired several years ago and I felt like I put it off longer than I was called to >> and uh it was really first inspired at a

night to shine. It's our worldwide celebration for individuals with special needs. And we were at one of the night to shines in Arizona and um it was during CO and so all they're driving through the drive-thru and on the red carpet and we're celebrating all of these cars that are coming through and a lot of them are Corvettes. And so all the kings and queens are in the back and cheering for everyone as this massive crowd is cheering for everybody.

And there's a young girl in a red Corvette as it drives around and she is just beaming. The joy in her life and in her heart and just oozing out of her is so contagious.

pulls by and I see the back of it and I didn't even know our teams and partnerships with the churches were even making these bumper stickers, but I saw the bumper sticker and on the back it said royalty on board. And I just thought, man, >> yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's somebody's daughter, right? >> It it is. It's royalty on board. And so it really led us down this track of really studying what does it mean to be made in the image of God.

>> And so we talked to so many incredible scholars over the last few years and diving in. A lot of people talk about the image of God is is rational, relational, functional, right? How we're we're rational beings. to logic and thought and all this that God's given us or relational meant for relationship with each other and for God or functional to rule and reign and I think all of those are part of it but I think it's a step further and a step that's even more important and that's when you really look at the the image of blank that was used over history especially in the ancient near east it was always a term used for kings or for monarchs so Assyrian king you know was made in the image of bell or Egyptian king made in the image of raw goddess that they believed in and so when they would have heard that in and the ancient near east that we were made in God's image.

What it would have come across to them is that it's a royal worth statement. And we have forgotten that in our soci society that when we're made in the image of God, it's not just what we do, but it's who we are.

It's a royal worth statement that he loved us so much he would create us in his image. And we have just forgotten that. And if you look at what's happening in our societies and around the world, if you look at the boys and girls that are being exploited or trafficked or the loneliness or the suicides or all of this, it is it's a royal worth statement. We've forgotten the the worth of humanity.

We've forgotten the value of every single life. And and I really my heart and prayer for this book is that part of it would be one of the most encouraging things that someone would ever read, >> but the second part will also be one of the most challenging things that hopefully prayerfully someone will ever read. >> Yeah. So, as you're talking, I'm I'm thinking a the importance of hearing this, but that also means I've got a responsibility to every single person in my neighborhood.

>> Everyone you ever meet, >> right, >> is made in God's image. And the the encouraging part is we share so much biblical truth that >> should be encouraging to people. Man, I'm made in God's image. Yeah.

It it's a value statement for me. It's a love for me.

challenged and thought over and over about the title. Why it's so important to look again is to look again at who God made me to be. But then it also applies to every single person that I see ever of all time. >> Check that bumper sticker. your friends and your enemies.

>> Every one of them. >> Royalty on board. >> It's royalty on board.

>> Man, >> that that's a profound call for this moment. >> Yeah. >> I I think that you you just couldn't

have have written it or thought it and you know, for what's taking place in our society. Yeah. for the divisiveness, for

the the demeaning and the diminishing of people that we disagree with, for the lack of of value because of uh an

argument or because a disagreement or because of a political stance or because of a background >> and and we diminish people >> and instead of having a disagreement but still valuing people, you can do both.

And as a society, we have to do a better job of valuing who God made us to be, but then also valuing everybody else.

>> Look again, you'll see the bumper sticker if you look again. Recognize your worth. Renew your hope. Run with confidence is a brand new New York Times bestseller. I'll go ahead and predict that. Um, from our friend Tim Tibo. Uh,

man.

Dude, I'm convicted sitting here, man. I I just the thing keeps running through my head is I remember like even teaching teens years ago, you're a king's kid.

>> Yeah. >> You're a king's kid. You're a king's kid. I remember a pastor saying teaching this one time. He said, you know, in the in the Old Testament in Genesis, it says, uh, God created the heavens, earth

and the stars also.

That's the mention of the stars.

>> And then he spends 35 chapters on

Joseph.

You know, I it's like what's more what's more valuable to God? >> That individual. >> It's not even close. There's only, >> you know, it's not even the individual and the stars also. >> That's right. There's there's >> it's almost an afterthought. >> That's right. There's only one thing that Jesus as the son of God came to die for. >> People >> and yet we put in place of people or above people our our cars or our watches

or our praise or promotion or recognition or all of these things. And when you do that, what you are doing, what's implied is how diminished people are, right? That they come after all of those things. And this is a challenge that you are more important than all of those things, but so is every person you see.

>> And and especially when you see people that are suffering. Yeah. And today, there are so many people that are suffering. And how could we >> know the worth that God has put on humanity and not do something, especially when we know they're suffering?

So bring bring it down for the person who's the truck driver or the single mom who's balancing two kids and listening to the Ramsay show trying to figure out how to pay debts off.

>> Well, it's >> like we can start foundations and fix it, but what's something that uh a person who is just grinding it out right now in their neighborhood? >> Don't look past. Don't look away. Refuse to look away. Refuse to look away. um

that person that you're when you're pushing your kids in their stroller and you want to ignore them. Say hi. Hi.

>> Value them. >> Value people. If you're the truck driver, how what's taking place? Well,

how many kids are being exploited on that, right? Be aware of it. Talk to your teams. Talk to your supervisors.

Understand the problems that are taking place and act upon them. And people say, "Well, what can I do in the macro?" Sometimes it's hard to step into some of these fights because they're big. They're very hard. They're very difficult.

daunting and overwhelming, but all of us see people almost on a daily basis. Value them, love them, show them the worth, because how do we know their worth? Well, it's it starts in Genesis that they're made in God's image, but then is brought full circle when Jesus came and died on the cross for them. And how do we know the value and worth of somebody?

By what someone is willing to pay for them. And Jesus Christ, who has infinite value and worth, was willing to give his life in exchange for you and me and every person we ever see. That's how we should see them. And right now we see them through the fy lenses.

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD and counseling is my co-host today. Open

phones at88255225.

Kim is in South Dakota. Hi Kim, how are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so we um live debtree, had

purchased two used cars. We followed your program since we had our daughter 20 something years ago. Um and have lived that way, but ran into a little snaggle when we were part of a natural disaster. and we had purchased homelers insurance with State Farm and had a really high deductible because our opinion was we had enough money saved that if something happened we would pay for it ourselves and not pay a huge premium. So that's how we lived our lives. Um we don't go on vacations. Um

our we have one child who was in college and we were paying for that with cash. She's premed so she has to go to school for that. And so that's kind of how we lived our lives until this storm came.

But the storm made our house unlivable and so we had to go into a hotel for two and a half years and the insurance company um did not pay us uh like they

said they would. And so we ran up thousands and thousands of credit card debt dollars in debt to pay for food, housing, all of that stuff. And unfortunately we tried to resolve this with them and couldn't. So we we have an attorney who's filing suit against them to try to get our money back. In the meantime, we're trying to dog paddle our

our way out of this. And at the same exact time, our child had to have open heart surgery. We had to take her to California to Stanford. And we spend a lot of time, which I have no control over these bills at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

So, I never know how to budget because I've got hotel bills unexpected when they say you have to come to Mayo and you have to pay for those things. You have to pay for food when you're Mayo, gas. And so, it's very difficult to budget. So, I just wanted to know if there's something I'm missing because sometimes you're too close to it to see it.

manage this because I don't feel like I have control like we used to have. Um,

and I just wanted some ideas.

>> Okay. Um,

I I miss So, for 20 years you were completely debtree and you didn't have any money.

Well, we had did have money, but we used a lot of that um to do repair up front.

We became the Bank of State Farm.

>> Yeah, I know. But how much how much money did you have?

>> Um we had a I'm going to say saved up

and not used for college cash on hand because we just bought this house probably about $100,000 >> that we had saved up. >> And so why did it take two and a half years? And why were you not buying your own food while working?

Um, well, we couldn't pay in the hotel.

You can't You can buy food, but you can't cook if there's no >> Well, I mean, if it's going to take two and a half years to go, why don't you go rent something?

>> We tried. Um, there wasn't anything available that met the the physical needs that we had. We had moved our neighbor into our home who was 90 years old, actually 95 for end of life care, and we couldn't have stairs and there were just requirements that we had that they could not meet. So we ended up in a

hotel and you had to pay for laundry, you had to pay for, you know, meals three times a day. >> I mean, State Farm screwed you, but so did those decisions.

>> Yeah.

>> You you you quadrupled or 5xed your cost

and it doesn't take two and a half years to rebuild a house.

>> Oh, it's not even done now. I mean

>> I mean like Okay, so >> I built an entire house in in 11 months.

Why can you not build a house? I I I've got family members that just lost their house in Texas and last night was their

first night back, >> but it was it's been what, four months, five months? >> Like Yeah. Two and a half years. Tell me about that. Like it seems like they could have knocked the whole house down. >> It was a natural disa. It was a natural disaster. So there were lots of building going on, projects going on. So there weren't a lot of contractors available.

It was also during the time where you had high gas prices and stuff and contractors didn't even want to come out to look at the house. It wasn't something that they wanted to do because there was so much work. Um there was a lot of contributing factors. Also the fact that State Farm was not approving things. Um you kept having to wait. They would make us do another estimate and another estimate another.

>> Right. So, but you stayed in the ditch

rather than making a decision to do something completely different for two and a half years. So, that's what put you here. Um, my goodness. And now the

health your your daughter that's studying to be a doctor has had open heart surgery.

>> Correct. >> So, she's not studying to be a doctor right now. She's recovering, right?

No, they're the school's letting her stay in school and she's trying to do stuff, you know, online and submit things sometimes late. And >> did you not did she have health insurance?

>> She has our health insurance, my husband's health insurance. >> And does it not cover the surgeries and the other stuff?

>> It covers surgeries, but it doesn't cover any any of the other things associated with it like hotel bills and

gas and food. when we go to Mayo or when we had to go to Stanford. We in Stanford for seven months. >> Yeah. So, what is your household income?

>> 188 >> and and you can't buy a hotel bill and

go to Stanford if you make 188,000.

>> Well, again, I mean, we did and you

know, put things on credit cards and you

know, >> why you make 188,000?

because we had a mortgage payment and we had college tuition and we had other things that we were paying. I mean, it wasn't and we were paying, you know, for the house while we were in the hotel. I mean, there was a lot of I could sit here and go over a single bill and you go, "Oh, that makes sense." >> But we're not extravagant. I mean, we're not um give you an idea like we've

canceled our trash service and gather up our own trash and take the dump ourselves and run sprinklers money.

>> Yeah. We're not trying to pick those apart. I I think if if I back all the way out of this thing, I think the part for for every emotional health challenge, there is this distance from this scary terrifying line called reality.

>> And if you on my show, I say this probably three times an episode, which is the life you had is over and you got

a new one now. And what most people try to do is keep parts or the whole of

their old life going while navigating this new reality.

And so for instance, you were in a position when you were debtree and had 100 grand in the in the bank and y'all made $200,000 a year to fully fund your kids college. That's a dream you'll have. It's a priority for you. If you can't afford it though, you can't afford it. And that's a hard conversation with your kid. That That's what I'm That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. And you know the third month, not the third year, >> right? >> I sue State Farm and I move out of a hotel the third month.

And if I have to pay for nursing home for the 92-year-old neighbor as to just to make me feel good about that, I will.

Or maybe not. >> Or go to my church and say, >> "Maybe I I can't do this. I thought I could help this guy and I can't help this guy anymore. I'm not in a position because only the strong can help the weak.

Um, so I think you got to start putting some limitations on some of these things that you keep declaring as absolutes in this conversation. The absolute is we got to have a place to live and we got to keep our daughter like healthy. And outside of that, I think everything's got to be back on the table. >> And 188,000 will do those things.

>> Yeah. >> Without credit card debt and without parsing it out and parsing it out and parsing it out, you know. So, and you

know, just if if it's any consolation to you at all, State Farm has a horrible reputation on claims. You're not the only one. So, sue their butt. But I'm not going to wait around on them to fix my life either.

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[Applause] Heat up here.

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John, I came away from that last call

feeling um like I was too tough on her

cuz she's been through a lot. Bless her heart. And uh but uh

there's some kind of a thing that that I guess you can guide us through from a counseling perspective. I could do it almost from a business acumen perspective, but um

when tragedy occurs, not if in your life, it's going to have

financial implications.

>> Correct.

>> How do you Because I meet people and and

she had done some of this. I mean, she bless her heart, she'd been through hell. Awful. Okay. Um, and so I I should

have been probably more sympathetic, but there there's something that happens and I and I did it. I think I think I did it during bankruptcy.

Um, it like it gives us permission

uh to be illogical >> in setting boundaries for ourselves. You

know, it's like, okay, this has happened and so now all the rules don't count.

Does that mean you know what I'm saying? Totally. It's like a human nature thing.

I I I can think of times I've done it too. Not so it's not just >> poor Kim with what the hell they've been through. I've done it. Yeah. >> But the um but there's also how how can we coach folks that are listening to say, "Okay, well, what should you do when tragedy occurs?" Somehow you've got

to put um you've got to truncate the you

got to cut off the damage, not expand the damage.

>> Yeah. the only the only path and I I've I've wrestled with this for a couple of decades sitting with somebody whose life was going one way and it was often started with my college students like they would be having a plan to go do a thing and then mom would get cancer and they want to continue their degree in

you know molecular biology but also and it's it always came back to hey everything in your life is different now and we have to start here and but I don't want to you're right it's not fair you're right? This shouldn't happen.

You're right. And yet here we are. >> So the the old phrase is you have a new normal. >> You have a new normal.

And so the only thing I've seen people do to be successful in my own life and folks I've sat with is this word that we have an allergy to in our society, which is grief. You have to spend some time just mourning this thing is over now and now I have to move forward.

And instead, >> I wanted to take care of my 92-y old neighbor. >> I wanted to what a noble, amazing thing.

And suddenly, I don't have any money. I wanted I kept thinking I don't have a house, right? I kept thinking that in in two more months they're going to get this thing rolling again. And then two more months. After four months, three months, six months, I have to say there's nobody coming. And we are racking up bill after bill at this hotel. Sure is credit farming.

>> We have to do something different. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I was telling you off air, I had a family member that lost their house in the Texas floods. They lived in a hunting trailer for months because

that's all they had. Not because they're noble or tough or anything. It's it's all we had. Or the alternative is I'm g I have to put myself in jeopardy in my

older age and run up a whole bunch of debts I'm never gonna be able to pay off. And it's that the the folks that I see are able to experience tragedy, which we all will. And we talk about resilience, we talk about growing from or there's a big word post-traumatic growth, right? Those that I see make that move are the ones who can sit in

that exhale grief and say, "Everything's different now. What's my next right move?" And if you can do that, there's

it's a it's an amazing trajectory. If you don't, you drag that past and it's this weird I have permission to just go buy that meal. I have permission just to stay in this place for two and a half years. I have permission to keep doing the awesome work I was doing with my elderly neighbor.

Um, even though reality says you can't afford it, it's not going to happen. >> Yeah. >> And we're using her as an example. We're not picking on her.

It's all of us. >> No, I wouldn't wish what she's experienced on on anybody.

because one of the reasons you should listen to the show is the lessons.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> Not just the entertainment value of of people's stuff, but uh you ought to say, "Okay, what what what's a lesson I can take away so I don't end up there." Well, the lesson is you limit the

the financial impact of the tragedy by

restarting your life with a new definition quickly as as quickly as you can get there. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes um you don't feel your way into that. You start acting your way into that. >> The feelings will come later up and down like a roller coaster. But I'm going to make the next right move is which is >> Okay, I'll give you an example. Here's one I do all the time. Okay. Have for 30 years. We're getting a divorce and the

lady calls and says, "Uh, I make 30,000,

he makes a h 100,000 and I want to keep the house for the kids.

>> I don't I don't want to disrupt their life. >> I don't want to disrupt the kids' life." A thousand times out of a thousand, I say, "Honey, you got to sell the house

because the the life you used to have is no more. You no longer have a $130,000 income. You have a $30,000 income >> and you can't afford this house. The kids are already disrupted.

It's called divorce. And so they're restarting. The best thing you can do for them is to restart them on solid ground, not a sinking ship. And you trying to keep this house as a sinking ship. So restart. Reset your vision of

your life. And that's a little miniature one-off version of what we're talking about. >> Or we talk we talk to folks all the time who I was making $120,000. My company did layoffs and now I'm in month nine with no income. and they'll they'll

they'll spin up a lot of activity. I've I've got on LinkedIn and sent out 10,000 uh resumes via email. No one's getting back to me. >> So I think yeah going back to that reality. >> Exactly. So when you are restarting one of the things you have to do is take inventory of what is still there.

>> What is still here? >> The income. This is the income that I do have and this is I have you know it's almost

like count your blessings. Yeah.

>> Okay. Here's what I do have to work with as opposed to what I used to have to work with. And I I what I do have is a

situation in Texas where uh everybody got wiped out at once in that area. So finding a contractor is dad gum near impossible. >> That's right. >> And so I don't have a uh an

overabundance of contractors to work with. >> Right. >> Okay. I don't have that. And so what do I have? I got a hunting trailer. >> I got a old hunting trailer with an air conditioner. plug it in and we're going to make a go of it >> and until we can get the contractors to show up because everybody else is in line. And um uh I I can tell you this,

there are the city of New Orleans was virtually destroyed a couple of decades ago by a

hurricane called Katrina.

And there are cinjun restaurants all over the United States today from people

who left New Orleans because they had to start over. >> Yeah. >> And they couldn't start over there. >> I was in Houston. So many people came and said, "New restaurant, man. We got to start here cuz my home doesn't exist anymore." >> What? My life as I knew it before. I have to restart. And in some cases, it's pull up stakes and go to a whole another area. >> That's right. Is that fun? No. Do Do you lose your family heritage? Yes. Is it a Do you weep? Yes. And this thing reality

just keeps chugging along. Math doesn't change. And it's hard. So, if you if you're in the middle of a storm, like poor Kim has gone through multiple storms at once and she had like the perfect storm. It's awful.

>> Um, the only thing we can tell you is take stock of what you do have, not what you used to have >> and reset a new vision that fits within

those numbers.

And the other stuff is you have to sadly say no to. >> That's right. >> I I can't live in this area anymore. You can't go to this school anymore.

I can't take care of this person anymore. I can't do this. And you have to you're going to have a whole lot of can'ts. And that's what I mean by truncating.

You're going to have to stop doing some things that you used to were able to do in order to create a new life with the new limitations and in the new situation that is healthy and that doesn't follow you around. Cuz if you don't, you end up with two decades to clean up the mess >> that the tragedy goes on indefinitely >> until you stop. >> Until you stop. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And and this happens if there's an affair. >> It's not fair, by the way. >> It's not It's not fair.

>> Um and there's this happens if you have an affair in your marriage. This happens if you lose a job. It happens to all of us multiple times throughout our lives.

The quicker you can exhale. Sometimes getting out a pen and a piece of paper.

What is true mathematically? What's true? What do I have? What am I grateful for? I got a I got a trailer in the back. I'm going to have to move in there. And then that's the ash with which you plant the tree. And man, new trees can grow, but you got to plant them in soil of reality.

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In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt free stage, Ryan and Amber are with us. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Great. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> Springrove, Minnesota. Southeast Minnesota. >> Cool. Welcome to Tennessee. Good to have you. And all the way here to do a debtfree scream. And how much have you paid off? >> 180,000. >> Very cool. >> Over 32 months. >> 32 months. And your range of income during that 2 and a half years?

>> Started at uh 140 and got up to 180.

>> Cool. What do you do for a living? >> I'm a construction superintendent for a general contractor. >> And I do ultrasounds.

>> Oh, very cool. Good for y'all. Very good. So, what kind of debt was the 180?

>> Look at it. Weird people.

>> Young weird people paid off a house early. I love it. Yep.

>> So, uh, what's this house worth?

>> Uh, if we were sell it right now, be right around 300. >> Good for you guys. Way to go. And how much you guys got in your nest eggs already? Your 401ks and stuff?

>> Just a little over 200 right now.

>> All right. So, you're about a halfway to a millionaire already. And you're what?

30. How old are you? >> 28 and 27. >> There it is. Not even 30.

>> Y'all didn't get the memo. You're not allowed to do that any You're not You're not able to do that anymore.

>> Yeah. It's different to be weird, but all right.

Well, congratulations. How long y'all been married? >> Four years. >> Okay. And two and a half of that you've been tearing into this mortgage. >> Yeah. Yep. >> So, tell us the story. How'd you get tied into Ramsay?

>> Uh, my first employer had uh Smart Dollar, so got uh got tied into that and then followed the baby steps from there.

Um, so we originally bought the house and uh we were working on like side projects in the house as a little fixer upper. uh working on our side projects and then uh the spring came around uh like a year and a half into buying the house. Amber wanted to do some uh siding exterior updates and I was like so we had some money set aside for that and I was like ah let's just pause on that.

Let's pay the house off. So actually it was uh what was it for the months that we paid it off? It was >> 13 months we paid off 132,000. So we just paused all our projects and then >> put 132 away in 13 months.

>> Whoa. That last year was really intense.

Yeah. >> Very, okay. We want I want to get to these projects, so we're knocking this puppy out. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. >> Exactly. >> Wow.

Very cool. >> Yeah. I wasn't on board at first entirely. Um I really want to do that siding, but there's a point where >> it was projects that we needed to have done and projects that we didn't need to have done.

And when we sat down and Ryan's like, "This is how much we're spending on interest," it's like, "Oh my gosh, it's just insane." >> Eye opening. Yeah. >> Over the life of the loan, how much you would pay. You y'all don't realize it yet cuz you've been married four years, but most couples get to the, "Oh, I didn't know we could get through this after a major crisis." And y'all decided early on, let's tackle a big monumental thing that nobody else is doing together.

Y'all don't know this yet, but y'all have proven to yourselves there's not a thing that the two of us can't lock arms and and and tackle together over the course of your entire marriage together. It's so I'm I'm gonna smile all day because of this. This is awesome.

>> Yeah, there's so many good things that have happened to you. What you've become while you're doing this. So proud of you. Have y'all got the sighting done since y'all paid it off? >> No, that's a next spring thing. First, I upgraded my car.

>> I I was driving an '08 Impala. It had what, 210,000 miles on it.

>> That thing was so loud. It was very embarrassing. But you learn not to care what people think. >> I love it. So yeah, you needed a car.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm glad you did that. So, first goal was that. Then we'll do the siding next spring. We got And so we just start laying out now that we don't have payment in the world, we start laying out goals and knocking down goals, right? >> Yep. Exactly. >> Travel, car, siding, whatever it is.

Right. >> Right. Amber, let me ask you this.

>> Okay. I've had projects >> that start burning a hole every time I pull in the driveway. That's all I see.

I don't see the house. I don't see my awesome wife, kids. I just see that. But when you grind out another goal, >> I stop seeing it all the time.

>> Right. Does that make Has it become less a burr in your soul? >> Yeah. It's like it's worth it. It's like the house is paid for now and I can wait a year on sighting. It's okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Very good. Way to go, you guys. All right. What do you tell people that are 25 years old and they want to pay off their house? It can't be done. America is dead. The capitalism is killing everyone. It's a systemic problem. We're all stuck. Oh, wait a minute. Hold my beer. Ryan and Amber just paid off their house at 28 years old. What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is?

>> I would say by far the biggest key is to uh just forget what other people think about you. It's your own money. You're working hard for it. >> Uh do live your own life.

Live your own goals. I think we were listening to the podcast a couple weeks back and Jade said it best. She said biggest superpower you can have with money is not caring what other people think and that's so true. >> So you did have some other people that had some thoughts, huh?

>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You definitely get weird looks.

That's for sure. >> Yeah. Yeah, cuz people know how that y'all aren't starving, right? They they know y'all are doing well and then you're they can hear your car coming 9 miles away >> and they're like, "Hey, you know, you can get a new car." >> And it's hard.

I mean, the temptation is definitely hard, but >> I mean, at the end of the day, it's worth it >> cuz when you're making that kind of money, >> you can literally on the way home pull into a dealership and go home with a new car that day, >> right?

>> And to just go home and grind it out, it's so cool, man. Hey, uh, who taught you both, cuz this is a, and again, I'm

kind of hijacking this call, this this this conversation. Who taught y'all to

sit down together and to say, "I want

this." And the other person say, "Well, I want this, and we're going to talk about this not as enemies, but as okay,

we both want different things, but we're going to come to some sort of solution." that had to have been modeled somewhere for you or y'all just are y'all even weirder than paid off house people.

Where'd y'all get that from? Did one of your Did your parents model that for you? >> My parents definitely did for me. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I'd say our parents were big models in that. >> And somebody once told me it's not you and him. It's not you versus him in a problem. It's you and him versus the problem.

>> Tada. Tada. There it is right there.

>> I know. But people told me a lot of stuff when I was 24. I didn't listen to them.

Man, that's so amazing, guys.

>> That's good. That's very good. Well done, you guys. All right, so the secret is not caring what other people think then. >> Absolutely. >> And then that frees you up to just do what you think and decide who gets a vote. And if it's not one of us, nobody else gets a vote. >> So, who was cheering you on?

>> Lots of friends, co-workers, parents, of course. Um, our biggest thing is probably just how competitive we are though because we Dave, not to like make

you as an insult, but we would call each other Davish if one of us started slacking. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> You're an ish.

>> Like a Dr. Zeus character. You're an ish. Don't be an ish. Is a

>> I like it. That's good.

>> Y the only ones in America that use Man, that's means Dave is an insult. So, you're good. That's good. I like it. I like it. I'll take it. My name gets used a lot of other ways. >> Y'all aren't the only ones that use Dave as an insult. So, >> that's that's at least a positive methodology. I'll I'll go with that.

>> Good job, you guys. Very very very good job. So, um

when your mom and dad actually realize you're actually doing this, what did their face look? I mean, like, mom, we just wrote the last check. We're done.

So my dad, I would meet him every week for lunch and I'd always tell him like where we're at and he'd be like, "Oh, I'm so proud of you." Like that was huge just to have that reinforcement all the time. But my parents actually paid their house off in four years. So I was kind of like, "We got to beat that four year." >> Oh, you are competitive, >> Dad. N Yeah, I like that. Very good.

Gosh, can I just say this to all the dads out there? How how proud is he of that? >> You want to have an amazing daughter that grows up into an amazing woman, have lunch with her every week and never let her leave the table without you looking her in the eyes and saying, "You're proud. I'm proud of you." >> Yeah.

>> Mhm. >> That's That right there. >> That's a superpower. >> That's I mean, your dad gave you everything >> and you got to Man, >> you're going to have to get pants to go all the way to the floor now, dude.

>> It's amazing. It's amazing. All right, you guys. I'm proud of y'all. We're proud of you, too, just like your dad is. Way to go, man.

>> Ryan and Amber from Minnesota. 180,000

paid off in 32 months. House and everything. They're not even 30 and they're already halfway to being Baby Steps Millionaires. They'll be there in about 20 minutes at this rate. Making 140 up to 180. Count it down. Let's hear

a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yeah.

[Music] Yeah, baby. That's how it's done.

[Music]

[Music]

our Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10:14. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off of your feet. Thomas said, "You can't stop

people from saying bad things about you.

All you can do is make them liars." That's pretty good. Uh, as you well know by now, the Fed has dropped rates and mortgage rates have followed slightly.

They dropped them slightly and mortgage rates have followed a little bit. 5.71 right now for a 15-year fixed. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Buying or selling an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsay trusted real estate agent. These pros are handpicked to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals top of mind. Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/agents or click the link in the show notes.

Lane's in Ohio. Hi Lane. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, me and my fiance, we're 21 and 22,

still both live with our parents. Uh, we're looking to move out probably in May when she graduates college. And, uh, we don't really know if we should buy a car for her first or wait until we buy a

house, but I don't know if we buy a car if we uh, we'll have 20% down for a house. >> Uh, you can wait on the house. You need to get a car first.

It's okay. It's okay. It's okay to rent an apartment for a year and you got to save up some money. And >> if you use part of the money you've saved to buy her a car for cash, uh then you need to replenish that for your down payment fund to be full again. If that takes a year and you rent a little apartment for a year, that is not going to set you back in your life. You're going to be fine.

>> Okay. Uh do you do you uh should we put

20% down on our house or should we try to just do a FHA one?

Well, FHA has MIP, which is much like PMI. PMI is private mortgage insurance. Mortgage insurance premium is what MIP stands for. And FHA is a much more expensive loan in all the fees and the interest rates than a conventional loan. So, if you have the ability to put together 20% on your first home, you're better off to do a conventional loan than an FHA loan. But

you don't have to worry about that right now for about almost 2 years from right

now cuz she's graduating in May. You're getting married then, sounds like. And

uh then we're going to get her a car and then we're going to rent for a year and that puts you almost two years from now.

>> Yeah. >> So the the thing you need right now is one of the fruits of the spirit, a healthy dose of patience. Man, you want to give her the world. You want to give her everything. And I love that.

>> But slow down. >> Yeah. It's going to be good, man. >> Back it back it off. Slow your roll.

Nikki's in California. Hey Nikki, how are you?

>> Hi John. Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> Um I'm calling because um my husband and

I are in a little over $300,000

worth of debt. Um about $120 of it is

IRS debt. And um my fault. Um, but I I

know you say, you know, do whatever you need to do to break away from the IRS.

Um, they sent notices for leans and

levies and all that.

>> So, um, we've set up a payment plan.

>> Um, but >> I am wondering how desperate we need to

get in this situation.

>> Very. Um, what what's your household income?

Uh, we make about 350,000.

>> Okay. Why pretel do? Do you owe the IRS

120 then?

>> Well, okay. So, I uh was previously

divorced. Um, and at that time, I'm I'm a nurse now. I'm I'm making money now, but at that time, I was not. I had three kids. I literally just put my head down and worked and worked and worked just to keep a roof over our head. I did not file taxes probably for about four years. Um >> Oh, okay. And now you've gone back, you've gotten remarried and now you've gone and filed.

>> Uh yes, I went and filed and then our income together is just way too much. So obviously we owed that first year. So yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. And what's the rest of the $300,000 in debt?

Um, so we've got about a hundred in

student loans >> and the rest of it is uh credit cards and um personal loan.

>> Okay.

All right. And so you've got $80,000 in

credit card debt.

>> Uh, yep. About that.

>> How long y'all been married?

>> We just got married in 23. June of 23.

Okay. And who brought the credit card debt?

Um well, so I mean we both had some um I

had >> Has it continued to grow after you got married?

>> Uh no, we've been we've been paying it down since. Um so we've gotten rid of

several. >> All right. So you here's where we are today. Today you make 350,000. You got $300,000 in debt.

>> And what part of California do you live in?

>> The Bay Area. The most expensive part.

Absolutely you do. Okay. All right. And how much is your house payment?

>> Uh 5,000.

>> And what's your house worth?

>> Uh about 780.

>> And >> we just bought it in 23. So we bought it for 750.

>> Well, it's probably worth more than 780 then if you bought it in 23.

>> Well, that's what Zillow Well, Zillow.

>> Zillow says. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, let's go with 900. And what do you owe on the house?

Um about 6 620 maybe. >> Okay. All right. So, you guys are living right on the edge on everything.

Everything's got a payment on it.

Everything's locked down. Um we make 350,000 and we feel broke.

>> Pretty much. >> Yeah. Okay.

And it's not a super expensive house for San Francisco. I mean, that's a cheap house. Really? Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, what do you do for a living? You're a nurse. What's he do?

>> Uh, he's a manager.

>> Manager. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Well, uh, what I'm going to do is buckle down and live on nothing.

Pretend like I am broke because you are.

And I'm going to cut up all the credit cards. We're not going to use them anymore. We're going to do a written budget every month. You and your husband. You don't make 350,000. you make 50,000 and you need to pay off 300

worth of debt. Or you make a h 100,000 and you're going to pay off $250,000 worth of debt and be debtree in about 2 years starting with the blessed IRS and

then work your way through a debt snowball on the other stuff um after you

get rid of the IRS. But um you guys need to go pay them like your hair is on fire and get them out of your life because the penalties and the interest that they're charging you are the worst on the planet and they have almost unlimited power to come and mess with your life even when you're on a payment plan. They might make a clerical error and put a lean on your house even though you're on a payment plan. They can if they want to.

And so what I want you to do is get them out of your life like your life depended on it. So, I think what's happened is is you guys are living a bay lifestyle and you're eating up your 300 grand and you're not making much progress on this debt.

as if you lived somewhere else and didn't have a life because you don't.

You're broke. Act like it. And attack this debt with a vengeance.

>> Yeah. And I hear in your story, Nikki, and even in your voice, that fear of that single mom who was just put her head down and tried to keep a roof over the head of her of her babies during a really chaotic time. Um,

it would be easy to say, "You shouldn't have spent all that yada yada." I just want to say I'm proud of you for getting through that four years. And it's easy to think I got my degree. I'm a nurse. I

married a guy who makes a good income. Together, we have a good income. and to take your foot off the gas. And I want you to let that woman who's been grinding it out finally be free. And that means you got two years of hitting the gas. And I'm telling you on the other side of this, with nothing but a house payment, making $350,000, you're going to finally feel that peace you've been craving for so many years.

But there's no other way than through this thing. So just get through it as fast as you possibly can. No restaurants, no fancy cars, and everyone's going to be like, "I thought you were." Yep. As for me, in my house, we will not be owned by anybody. And one

way, I'll say it again. There's only one way through it. Only one way, and that's through it. Just get through it as fast as you possibly can. That puts us the

Ramsy Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

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## 254. You Can’t Build Wealth Until You Build Stability | November 7, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music] >> Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

John's in Orlando. Hey, John. How are you?

>> Hey, uh, Mr. Ramy's, it's nice to meet you. Um, so I've actually struggled to keep, uh, steady employment over the past decade. I've been fired several times due to personality and behavioral challenges. You know, I've got over 70 grand in federal student loans. Uh considering joining the Navy as an officer, but to pay off debt and to build a career. At the same time, I'm considering joining starting a podcast with my friend Ben, but I'm unsure what

to do. Um I've I wouldn't be alive today

without God and uh my parents funding me, but at 40 years old, I'd like to be independent. At this point in time, no employer will hire me. Even lowpaying jobs that you have suggested other people do to build a work record. I'm not sure what to do. What What kind of advice can you give me to help me out?

>> How many jobs in 10 years? It's >> actually 11 years, but 14.

>> 14 jobs in 11 years. You're 40. So, what'd you do before 29?

Well, I was actually I spent eight years uh in, you know, in college because I I made a mistake early on in my life. I didn't have a plan. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I had a a brief window of time where I had good grades, but that was only, you know,

>> I go back to the other then. Thank you.

I go I go back to the other then. You had 14 jobs in 11 years. So, it's not even a year each. Uh, and you said behavior and personality challenges

>> cause you to lose your jobs. Is that what you said? >> Yeah. So, I have a disability. I have a personality dis disability. Um, and it it took me many years to figure that out through different neurological assessments. Um, >> what is your what is the diagnosis?

>> Uh, NPD um is what I've been told I

have. Um, but I was my my mom believes

uh you when I was I was vaccinated when I was a kid and my body rejected the vaccine and it caused me to have

epilepsy when I was younger and ADD and

a few and >> so how does this manifest itself in the workplace? Like you're just a butt.

>> Uh, so what it's caused me to do is challenge authority to be a difficult employee to work. >> What you describe would be normally I would think belligerance.

Yeah, I guess you could put that in in that category. >> Is it episodes, John? When it happens, like when it occurred, do you are you aware of it? Like it when it's happening or how does that work? Because I'm just trying to figure out the tools to put in place for your life going forward to be able to function in society, right? I mean, to be able to to hold a job.

>> Well, hold a relationship of >> haven't been able to function in society. >> Yeah, that's that's the point. And the Navy's not Navy doesn't do well with people who have trouble with authority.

>> Yeah, I I realize that >> that's going to be that's going to be a nasty that's going to be a nasty conflict. Um I mean that it the whole

military thing is authority. You know that. So um >> it's command structure and you will respect that even if your commander is an idiot. So um Wow. Okay. So are you

are you getting help with this in some way? Some because I I wish Dr. Deloney was here today cuz Rachel and I are going, "Oh, no." But um yeah, but the I

mean, is there some is there a treatment for this where you can become functional?

>> Uh honestly, no. Um there's no cure for

it. Um I've proposed an idea to uh cuz

according to research, uh the reason why people have NPD is because of low gray matter in the brain. I think that it can be cured with nanobots that you can you can inject nanobots in the body and then have it have them programmed to heal the frontal cortex of the brain. >> Yeah, we just we just left my page. I'm I'm I just you just left me behind at the airport, dude.

>> But yeah, but no, there's no there's no support really what I what I you know just from a common sense your older brother talking to you, listening to you who loves you.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And and so I'm trying to find some way that you create a sustainable

life for for for uh that that allows you

to be employed, that allows you to be engaged in other relationships, that allows you to do those things.

of tools of awareness. I do this, I do that to at least be able to withstain

like just a 9 to5, right? To to be able

to have any level of function. Has anyone given you any tools at all or are you just kind of >> sure any kind of formology?

>> Yeah, I mean I have been given tools, but uh one of the things that happens when I go into these jobs is I I bring bitterness from previous jobs into it

and kind of self-sabotage at the early stage. and they already have this um

I don't know how to say this, but they they already know they can see my resume that I haven't kept jobs. They're kind of >> looking my mind self-fulfilling prophecy. That's logical. That makes sense. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, dude, the answer is that

this is above Rachel and my paygrade.

Um, I don't know how to answer your question because the answer to your question is to find some healing

so that you can hold a job, so that you can hold a quality relationship. Um, because um, there's not a career path.

And self-employed people oftenimes become self-employed because they can't do anything else. But it doesn't keep you from having to struggle with that because your customers are going to experience what your bosses were experiencing. And you're not going to have any customers. I mean, if you're my mechanic and you're a butt when I'm the customer, then you're not my mechanic anymore and you go out of business. So, I mean, you fix my heat and air, but you're a butt. Well, you're not my heat and air guy anymore. Okay? And so, um,

you know, if that's how it's if belligerance is how this is manifesting, which I I'm not an expert in your area, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm just listening to you as a friend and saying, uh, I'm going to be in the therapy realm. I'm going to be talking to Dr. John Deloney, which I will put you on hold. will try to make you a caller on his show.

>> Yeah. Well, and we have found people that are successful when they have very

obvious limitations, whether it's a mental illness, a physical illness, a disability. You know, we talk to people in the show and they are, you know, legally blind, but yet they're making $150,000 a year because they figured out something that got them a job and they figured it out. So, there is a level that I don't want John, the thing I would not want for you is playing into any level of victimhood.

>> That this is a horrible thing, but people do have serious setbacks, but they overcome them and we talk to them on this show all the time. And so, I don't know what that looks like for you.

>> Create a predictable environment >> 100%. So that's what I'm saying though is don't don't fall victim to this.

>> No. >> And make excuses. So that that's where the work of the healing and the proactive, you know, being proactive in that way is going to be your next step.

It has to be. >> Uh but I think it is possible. I think there's something that you can do honestly, John, to find healing [music] and to be a productive member of society. >> I do too. I think there's something other than nanobots. Hold on. Christian will pick up. We'll get you hooked up with uh Deloney.

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music] Jacob is in Atlanta. Hi, Jacob.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I'm kind of in a predicament. Um,

I'm having to move out. Um, I'm only 21.

Uh, I make 35 an hour

um, at my 40hour job and then I get to

do my own side work on Fridays and Saturdays. and

I've got I owe 2,900 on my truck and I have $1,000 in credit card debt and never

been on my own. So, I guess I'm just kind of nervous about >> being out on your own. What What caused you having to move out?

>> Um, so funny story. I actually live with my

ex and her parents at the moment.

>> Your ex?

No, my ex-girlfriend.

>> Okay. So, you you >> when did y'all break up? >> I'm sorry. >> Um, we broke up in February of this year. >> And you've been living with your ex-girlfriend's parents for this long.

>> Yes. >> Oh my gosh. Jacob blinked twice. Are you okay? >> Awkward. [laughter] >> Yes, I I'm okay. Um, it it's no,

>> but you got to get out. I would assume that her parents are like, >> "Wow, these are some unusual humans." >> Very nice. >> They are nice. They sound very nice.

Humans. >> They're weird. >> Just >> Yeah. Number one, that you were in there in the first place living with their daughter under their roof. That's weird.

Number one. Super weird. Y'all break up and then they don't throw your butt out.

Yeah. That's super weird. Okay.

>> We uh we didn't I we built like a a tiny

house at their house for >> Okay. Well, on their property. Excuse me. Maybe the roof didn't extend over.

>> That maybe makes [laughter] it a little bit better. So, you're out on your own for the first time and you're 21. Are you So, are you out now or you're moving out? >> Yeah. Have you you've been there for Febru February? How much money have you saved, honey?

>> Well, I've only got >> I've got $4,000 saved.

>> Okay. So, go get an apartment.

Um, well, I I found a house that's rent

to um rent to own. >> You don't need rent to home. >> Straight from the owner. >> You need nonhomelessness.

That's all you need. Don't be homeless.

That's it. >> Go get a cheap one-bedroom apartment and get your butt out of weird

>> as soon as you can. and then plug

yourself into a good church and uh we'll

get you on to every dollar and get your money stuff working for you and let's start making every dollar that you have behave. You should have more than $4,000 because you have no overhead and I don't know where your money's been going since February, but you make enough money, you should have a stack of cash right now.

>> I haven't always had this job since February. >> Oh, good. Okay, that makes more sense then. Okay. >> I've had this job for about two months.

So, >> okay. Would you agree with me that if you make 35 an hour for 40 hours plus side hustle, you should be able to stack some cash if you keep keep your rent cheap and go ahead and knock these two debts out pretty quick.

>> Yes, I've been I've been saving about $1,000 a week. >> Ah, there you go. That's my man. Okay, good. >> And the house that I'm looking at renting is it's $1,000 a month. It's pretty cheap around here.

>> Yeah, that'd be real cheap around Atlanta.

So, >> are you and making sure too that when you're doing that that you're not signing yourself into this idea that you have to buy this house either. I don't want you locked into anything weird.

>> So, making sure contractwise you can get out. >> I mean, I Yes, I can get out, but I also feel like the house would be a bit of an investment because >> No, you don't need an investment. You're 21. You have $4,000 and $3,000 worth of

debt.

>> You don't need an investment right now. You need a place to live and not be homeless and not be in the middle of weird. So, let's get your life like sustainable and some on a rhythm that's

normal before we start talking about investing.

Okay? So, no, I actually would not do this house deal. I smell a rat. Okay? I

I want you to get an apartment that's $1,000 or less for a one-bedroom and get

out and have no human beings bothering you, no weird crap swimming around in your head. It's just you, some bread, some milk, some electricity, and go to work. Get the truck paid off, get the credit card paid off, start stacking some cash, build Jacob a life to where

you can stand with your shoulders square with a pocket full of money and no debt, and then we can talk about really becoming a millionaire, building some wealth, and you're going to be able to do all of that. But we've got to get you so far away from where you are to even get you to zero. You're you're you're subterranean right now. You're at ne you're you're at a negative 32 degrees.

I got to get you up to zero before we can get you warm.

Okay. >> Okay. And >> and so there's so much crap in your life that you've got to clean out. And so I if if you were my uh nephew or my son, I

would I would put my arm around you. I'd walk you into a great church there in Atlanta, Georgia, that's got some good men in it that can walk along beside you and say, "Hey, here's how you be a man.

Here's how you walk with God. here's how you handle your money. Let's get you out of debt. Let's get you in a sustainable boring situation. And then that's where

you build exciting from. You don't build exciting from desperation. You build it from boring. Let's get up to boring first. And and so go get you a simple one-bedroom. Don't try to buy a house. Don't do the rent own thing. I'd pass on it. And dude, this freaking week, get

out of there right now. [laughter] Right now. We're cheering for you, Jacob. >> Wow. You can do it. You can do it, man.

>> Here's to Jacob. >> This is Wow.

>> I cannot imagine the percentage of human beings that allow this a person that

broke up from their girlfriend to stay on their property for 9 months. I don't understand. I don't understand being there in the first place, but I I don't I said that already, but the the um the likelihood No, no, no, no.

>> Well, less about the parent. It would be more for me if you like if I'm him. I don't want to be there. >> Yeah. >> Going into the >> kitchen, you know what I mean? You're like, "Hi, >> Sally. Sorry, me and >> Ashley broke up." You know, like, I mean, that's just weird. All right, here we go. Jacob, we're for you.

>> Yeah, we want you to win. We want you to win. But yeah, you got you're also processing all the emotions of this and a separate clean location that doesn't have a complication to it >> of any kind like rent to own or in-law former in-law sort of um all that stuff is going to clean your mind out. And that's what I mean by boring. That's what I want to lead you towards. Melissa's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Melissa, what's up?

>> Hi Dave and Rachel. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

So, I work for a home health agency. Um,

they put me on a bonus structure where I'm now making 5% on the incremental

above my quota. As long as I hit my quota, I get 5% of the gross profit above my quota. Um, and they pull it

pretty much to the end of the year. They cap my bonus at 2500 a quarter and then

they're going to pull and whatever is left over, I'll get a lump sum at the end of the year. I'm wondering um if I

should take that lump sum and invest it back into the company for equity or if I

should focus on paying off my mortgage, which is my last remaining debt.

>> Regardless of whether you have a mortgage, regardless of whether you have a mortgage or not, you do not invest into a small business where you're a minority shareholder.

>> Okay? >> Because you have absolutely zero control.

You could wake up six months later, the owner starts doing cocaine, runs a thing into debt, runs the whole thing into zero, and all your money's worth zero, and you have absolutely no governmental say. You the governance documents when you're a minority shareholder. In other words, if you don't own 51%, your vote don't count.

>> Okay? >> And they can vote for stupid and you have to stand there and watch it.

>> So, it's like a single It's like almost investing in a single stock. >> It's worse.

>> It's worse. Okay. because you can't get out of it.

>> And I have a follow-up question for you, Dave. Um, we have we have a pretty significant mortgage. Um, we have like 650,000 left on the house. We have about

410 in a brokerage account. Um, 200 in our 401ks, um, and a small emergency fund. Um,

and it does put a lot of stress on us, the the amount we pay in the in the mortgage and the taxes. Um, would you recommend anything on how to make should

I >> I mean, you sound like you've been listening a while and you know we're going to tell you to take the 410 and put it on the mortgage. You knew that, right? >> Okay. >> I think so. But it's scary to do.

>> It's also scary to have 650,000 breathing down your dad gum neck, >> right? >> Yeah. I put the 410 on it refinance and get you um current current rates are down. Let's get let's get the thing refinanced. Get your newort bonus at the end of this year too, Melissa. That's going to be some extra cash to throw at it, too. So, >> yeah, >> it's great. >> Yeah, invest in something you can control the outcome and or get out of.

Minority shareholder positions aren't one of them.

[music]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

We got Netswuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, Netswuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on Netswuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, Netswuite is helping them even more.

It's one system connected to every part of your business for real time insights, not guesswork. Netswuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems so you can trust the data, stop

wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour today at netsweet.com/ramsey.

That's netsweet.com/ramsey.

You ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still like a rat in the wheel? You're not getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone. Our own Jade Washaw

Ramsey personality has a brand new book out called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone who's been there, done that, got the t-shirt, right? >> Yeah. Got the t-shirt, wore it out, gave it to Goodwill. [laughter] >> I'm telling you.

There we go. Good looking cover on there, too. Good looking cover. I like it.

So, you just got back from LA. You've been out doing book tour stuff. >> That's right. Promoting it.

>> You were out there doing a podcast, I guess. >> That's right. >> What were y'all talking about on that about the book? >> Um, yeah.

Ellen Fischer, great podcast if you haven't seen it. Yeah.

We give we give them a plan. We give them a b the baby steps. It's very logical. It's very practical.

It's very number heavy, but it's not usually the numbers that are the problem. You know, when you start working that plan, you do come against different emotions because we're asking you to change your behavior. Yeah. And whenever we're talking about changing your behavior, you know, the the child inside comes out, right?

And there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of frustration. Some of us are dealing with a lot of guilt and frustration, uh, guilt and shame, pity, so many things.

solve it and therefore a lot of us get stuck. >> Yeah. I love that you wrote about this though because I'm like, it just brings the humanity to the system, right? And we talk so much about >> emotions on the show in the sense that uh we know it's we're dealing with people, right? And I do think a lot of people in the financial space, they do like they talk numbers all all day long.

And I do feel like that is something that is so true and it resonates with people because they are waking up and and and what they are feeling, what they are thinking that day is going to drive their choices and decisions. And so you kind of like hitting that straight on is so smart. >> I mean, absolutely. Think about the advice that we give here every day.

We're telling people, "Hey, you're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working at one." Uh, a lot of times we're giving people tough news like, "Hey, you might need to sell your home." This is not something that in one second you're okay with. This is something that you take home, you tell your spouse, you're mulling it over, you you're feeling a type of way about it, >> all the logistics, >> all the logistics. That's right. Um, in the book, I talk about when Sam and I were walking the baby steps.

we were paying off long time frame 7 and a half years and at one point I had just gotten so frustrated because uh the bill

collectors were calling me and it was just like two steps forward one step back and I realized in that moment with

all my trying to do good I was leaving out pieces of the plan and I wasn't doing it exactly >> as it stated. And a lot of us come up against that. we're like, I feel like I'm doing everything right. Why am I not going forward?

And you kind of hit that wall and you want to give up. But then if you step back and you kind of do a little bit of an audit, you go, wait a minute, I am missing something here. For us, it was uh instead of paying minimum payments on all the debt and then putting, you know, everything else on the smallest debt, we were just taking all the money and putting it on the smallest debt. Well, yeah, you're going to have a problem, right?

So sometimes we're so excited about moving forward, we're leaving things out, we're doing things wrong, and that can cause frustration. And I talk about that in the book. >> Yeah. The um because you don't get traction.

>> That's right. >> Anytime you're have set a goal to move from a place to another place, the thing that starts you is hope. >> Yes. >> And the thing that keeps you going is hope.

But you lose hope if you're not making progress. >> That's right.

That's just weird. >> Yeah. I call that toil with no traction in the book. It's when your results aren't matching your efforts and that's frustrating.

And then there's the fear part, right? Where we're asking people to change and and do things in their life to have an outcome that many of us have never actually seen in real life. I remember when Dave I used to listen to Dave on the radio when when I was going through our debtfree journey and he was talking about buying cars and cash and one day you'd be able to pay off your house and one day you'd be a millionaire. I never saw that.

>> So, there was this part of what he's saying makes a lot of sense to me, but this guy better be right because I'm about to embark on serious life change and if it doesn't pan out, so there's this what if what if I do all of this and it still doesn't work. Is it going to be worth it? What if I make all these changes? You know, I I'm working extra instead of going to my kids recital.

I'm working extra instead, right? Yes. It better be worth it on the other end. And so, there's a lot of fear of the unknown, a lot of fear of change.

I talk about that in the book and how to cross. three chapters in the book called It's a Pain in the butt. [laughter] >> It's a pain in the butt to change. It's hard.

>> Yes. Yes. Well, and that's scary. I'm like when you're doing something that is so different and so new.

>> Mhm. >> We all feel that, right? Or you're like, you're you're you're entering into a whole new world. >> When you ride a bicycle the first time, it's anxiety. >> Yeah. And you're good at this and I don't want to not be good, right? And so you feel like you're kind of going backwards in that sense cuz you're like, no, I'm good at this even if what I'm doing is at least [laughter] I know.

>> Yes. I know how it feels >> and changing that is hard. >> So, what no one tells you about money is

the new book from Jade Waw. And this is

from someone who's actually done it. So, if um you know, if you don't like theory, you'll like this book. I like practical application. I you know, I want to find somebody who did it and won. This is what it looks like to win.

Ask her and her and Sam. They they pulled this off. Pre-order right now for $24.99 and get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Wajo, and uh

you can book exclusive 3-week online book club, which includes live Q&A with

Jade. And Jade is one of the personalities that does this show every day in case you hadn't noticed for some reason or another, hadn't been around here or you're new this week. Um, and so she knows how to answer the questions and um, uh, not only she done it personally, but she's been sitting at this desk answering questions for a couple of years now and doing a great job. So, you can pre-order right now at ramseyolutions.com/store.

So, I know when Rachel and I have written books and um, this is a fabulous book. I I remember going through the uh, the manuscript a few months back when we were building the thing, you were building it and I get to look at it because I'm a CEO. Um, [clears throat]

I was thinking, um, this is a book about

hope, but not, uh, fake hope.

>> Yeah. >> Where real hope comes from.

>> Well, that's the thing here. Um, I really wanted to shoot people straight and and not dillydally around the reality of what you're going to face.

And so when you read this book, you're going to go you're going to go on an emotional ride because I I'm telling stories in it that I've never told anybody about some of the things you can

encounter, some of those real emotions that pop up when you're working with a spouse, >> when you're dealing with uh guilt and shame over past mistakes. Mhm.

>> How many times do we take calls on the Ramsay show when one spouse has brought in an inordinate an inordinate amount of debt and the other spouse has to say, "Okay, I'm on board." Right?

>> Um how how often do we deal with situ that was me, that was Sam and I. How often do we deal with situations where uh you know a spouse has gambled or they've you know made bad choices with money, a bad business plan, right? Those are real things that really affect or you know you're ready to start a family but you've got this debt. That was one of the stories in the book from our side.

You know um we would never tell anybody that you can't have a family with you know if you have debt but for Sam and I we decided we're going to wait and there was a lot of emotion that went along with that.

telling you what you're going to face.

It's also showing you exactly how to work through it because one thing at Ramsay is we're going to give you a plan. We're going to tell you exactly what to do next. And that's what I do in this book. I'm helping you see the problem for what it is because it's like the old adage, you can't solve a problem without admitting there is one, right?

And then so once you see, oh man, that might be me. I think she's describing what I'm going through now. I'm showing you and here's exactly what you do next.

We talk about things like daily habits.

We talk about ways to set uh daily rewards. We talk about all the different things uh to keep you motivated to pull you out of those stuck places. So anybody who's ever been stuck, this book is for you. >> It's so good. Oh, y'all go get this book. Seriously, go order it today because and I'm such a reader. I love I do. I love to read and I love to read books where there is a subject matter and this one obviously is money.

>> And to put myself in a position of that author and the fact that you're so honest in this and you bring such a story element to it of what you guys walk through, I'm like regardless of where you are financially, you're going to relate >> in this book. You're going to find something in this book. Not only that you feel like, okay, that is me, but also it's going to show you where to go.

It's aspirational of like you you're at the end, right? From the quote unquote baby step, like it's like, hey, yeah, like you've done it. You've walked through all of this. [music] And so whether you are starting this journey, you're at the end. Seriously, this book is for you. What no one tells you about money by Jade Warshaw. Love you, Jade.

Thank you so much. >> We'll be shipping them in a couple of months. So, uh, get about 45 days for the ship. That's right. And so, you can pre-order right now and get the deal.

$24.99.

What? No one tells you about money from

trade wash >> in a good Christmas gift. So just get a

get a get a box of them. Hand them out to your friends. [laughter]

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Well, a couple years ago, George Camel brought in a couple of YouTube videos and said, "You got to watch this guy. He is redefining generosity." And uh I got

to meet Jimmy Darts on the small screen the first time and uh then Jimmy was in town I don't know Jimmy what a couple years ago first time you came back.

>> It was sometime last year somewhere. I know the years blend together but >> yeah it starts running together with the miles you're putting on the airplane man. >> Yeah. >> So uh this Jimmy is a star in the world of social media particularly YouTube and a champion of kindness and generosity.

Uh as a social media influencer he's known for his heartwarming random acts of kindness. You've seen him on CNN, Fox News, Today Show, and the Ramsey Show here. This is the second time he's been with us. Uh he does an incredible job of walking up to someone, asking for their help, someone who obviously needs help.

And uh excuse me, ma'am, can you give me $5 or something like that, right? And then when they do, he ends up giving them uh in some cases a lot of money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Usually, you know, $500 to $1,000, that's kind of the seed form. um the video goes up and then it's really up to the public how much they want to bless him. And so yeah, it can be anywhere from 50 grand to last week. I think a couple weeks ago we raised over 400,000 for a guy. So >> what was his what was his situation?

>> Uh yeah, he was uh homeless living in his car with his wife. They was uh traveling pastor doing ministry with their one-year-old and he uh he actually passed the honesty test. So I went up to him, asked him for help, and he went, "I seen your videos. I know who you are.

I'm not going to fake like I don't." So, I was like, "Shoot, I'm going to have to leave. I can't help this guy." And then I was like, "Wait, actually, he just passed the honesty test." So, [laughter] sure enough, we blessed him. But, it's uh it's an honor getting to travel around and just see that there really is good people in this country. >> Yeah, for sure.

Well, and it's so encouraging how well your stuff does because I feel like it shows that people want to see that content. You know what I mean? Like the amount of views and stuff that you get and what you've built >> just shows people are craving generosity. They're craving to see good in the world, I think.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's I've been blown away from laundry mats to Walmart aisles to anywhere and everywhere you can think of just uh the kindness of people. Um and it's it's just so cool to see because in that moment when they're kind and I say, actually, I don't need your help. I want to bless you. It's like a mirror is is shown to their face and they realize, wait, they actually realize they're a good person. You know, like we're all obviously, you know, we need a savior.

We're born into sin. but to understand that man, we're also made in the image of God and that even through I'm going through a struggle, they realize that they were generous. And so that's why I think the blessing hits so hard. And it's really the opposite of of uh the lottery. You know, the lottery usually lands on a foundation of greed because they're trying to get rich where these blessings land on the foundation of generosity because these people are giving when they get the blessing.

>> 10 days ago, his first new book hit the streets and it's already a bestseller.

undercover kindness, saying yes to love, no to fear, and embracing the life-changing power of ordinary generosity and uh absolutely incredible.

So, what caused you to I know the answer to this, but I'll give you the underhand pitch. What caused you to start this whole thing with radical generosity?

>> Yeah, man. Uh really my parents when I was a kid, I was 10 years old, and uh they said, "Hey, Jimmy, for Christmas, instead of just doing gifts, we're going to give you $200 in cash." So, I was jumping up and down doing back flips off the coach and my dad goes, "Settle down.

You got to give half of it away to a stranger." And I'm like, "What? A tie is 10%. What do you mean half of it?" And so, sure enough, we're driving through the city and I see this guy freezing out in the cold and I get out of the car, hand him $100 and just the look on his face knowing he could get a meal that night, he could get a jacket. I got back in the car and, you know, I'm sitting here today.

I'm 29 years old. That was 19 years ago. And the crazy thing is I have no idea what I bought with the other $100, but I know the face and the look on that man's face. And so I think my parents instilled it into me.

And then also just the gospel when you really understand that Jesus gave, you know, God gave his one and only begotten son. So of course I can give five bucks out of my pocket. You know, if I really believe that God did that for me, it can't help but explode your heart for other people. >> Yeah.

And the joy that comes through it, you know, generosity, it's a big message for us. Like we talk about even at Ramsey like when you're doing your budget it's the first line item in the budget for every dollar >> because we believe in that principle so much to the point that you know we know that the that people when you're handling your money you are a person inside like the soul inside of you the character inside of you is the person actually handling it. And when your character changes and you become a selfless person through the act of generosity and giving, you know, there there is such there's such joy and such meaning and purpose in that.

It's a really beautiful thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. When people are generous, like you said, their character begins to change. And what do they see?

They notice, oh, when they're doing their job at serving tables or driving Uber, when they're a kinder person, that people want to tip them more. When they're a more happy person, people want to say, "Hey, you want to come in on this business deal with me?" So, generosity and just Yeah. your character really just attracts more blessing.

>> Yeah, it's beautiful. So talk about the difference in generosity and how stewardship is woven into that because when you're talking walking up to someone who's on the skids and you give them 50 or 100 grand. Um

how how are you doing that quote unquote responsibly because you don't you don't necessarily need to say yes. You could just go I'm just doing it. Shut up. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

So 99% of the time when we raise money for someone, it's usually for a specific reason. So when we were here back in Nashville, there was a lady who her son

needed um you know, like a heart transplant. It was something um with with her baby's health. And so she had to leave her job. She was staying at the hospital.

Her husband lived like an hour away. And so you know, she's stuck here draining their savings account. And so we were able to get her capture her story, raise like 50 grand for her. and we just saw her video come in a couple of weeks ago.

It was uh like a year later. She sent me a video carrying the baby out of the hospital.

So, usually when we raise money, it's for a specific cause or situation. But, uh really, you know, the key is God calls us to give. And I think so many times people are always caught up in, well, what if I give this guy $5 or that? What's he going to do with it?

Well, the truth is we're just called to give. we're not responsible for every single thing they do for it. It's like God loves the crap out of us and he forgives us and loves us and loves us and if if he was to pull back his love on us cuz we made a mistake, that'd be crazy, you know? And so I think really people we just need to focus on, man, go out there, love somebody, be generous, obviously be smart and wise with how you do it, but just go and do it and it'll actually change your heart probably more than the person you're blessing.

>> Yeah, for sure. That's so good. You know, and what's weird is the amount is not what matters as much when you are the giver.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. A lot of people are like, "Man, when I have this much money or this or that, I'm going to give I'm going to be generous." And the truth is, you actually probably won't. You know, like you can start today. Let's say you got 10 bucks to your name. Well, find a quarter, buy someone a gumball. You know, like you you start doing that now.

The Lord's like says, "Be faithful a little and you'll be given much." And he knows if you can't be faithful a little, you're not going to be faithful with much. >> Yeah. When you started this channel, it was on YouTube to start with first and you're on everything now, of course. What's your primary channel now where people? >> Uh, probably Instagram is probably the main place now. Yeah. >> Yeah. At Jimmy Darts, D A R Ts. The new

book is Undercover Kindness. Uh, saying yes to love and no to fear and yes to generosity big time. But I remember the story you were telling me before the um we got just a minute but quickly how you got started with nothing on you pop up a

camera and here we go. >> Yeah, absolutely. I just uh I was talking to my dad on the porch and he goes, "What do you want to do with your life?" And at the time I was working at his restaurant. So I realized, well, I guess it must not be working for you.

And uh he goes, "Uh, what do you want to do?" I go, "Man, if I could be Santa Claus year round, just go around, share the gospel, love on people, give away cars and houses, I'd love to do it. but there's nowhere on Craigslist to apply for that. And he just looks at me and he goes, "Start tomorrow." And I was like, "What do you mean start tomorrow?" And I actually was like, "Man, the world has amazing drive, but sometimes lacks purpose. And the church has great purpose, but a lot of times lacks drive.

If I can put drive and purpose together, I think I can make something happen." And so I got in my car, started going around the country, um, and yeah, just spending time with people, whether that was having a conversation with a guy, asking someone for a hug, and it started with $10, $20, and just kept climbing and climbing. And so you really can start tomorrow and go after it, get after it, and and do it with the Lord, and you'll be amazed at what he can do.

>> It's one of the biggest shows on the social media platform, and it's all about generosity, all about loving people. Well, the new book is Undercover Kindness from my good friend Jimmy Darts. Proud to say I know you, brother.

Yeah, thanks so much. I couldn't do it without you. If I was in a snowball of debt, I wouldn't even be able to think straight. So, my [laughter] dad put me on you a while ago. >> Oh, Jimmy, congrats on the book.

Absolutely amazing. Amazing.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today and my daughter. Open Phones at88255225.

Britney's in Los Angeles. Hi Britney, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. Thank you for taking

my call. I am in a bit of a pickle right

now. I bought a house a year ago and I am in a bit of a financial rut. So, I'm

wondering if I should sell my house or

if I should put it um up for rental.

>> Is this your primary home, Britney?

>> Uh, yes and no. It's kind of complex. I

did buy it as a primary. However, I did

have the intent to also, well, the intent to live in it, but also I was going to Airbnb it because I do work in LA. So, it but I don't live there. My my

house is in the mountains. a cabin in the mountains. So, um, when I decided to

buy a home, I asked my mother, you know,

to help me and she has a cabin up here.

I should pre preface this by saying I also do have another cabin, but I own that one with my dad. Um, and he pays

100% for that one. I haven't had to put a dime into it upon getting it in, you

know, post. It's been about two years.

So, I was able to qualify for one on my own because of that. Um, I had the intent of getting the

house as an Airbnb whenever I'm not here. My mom's Airbnb was doing phenomenal, but I came in at the absolute worst time. I

uh when the market started dropping was earlier this year. It was pretty much right after election and I had got my permit in about February. So, I I think I heard you say in the last few minutes, >> I wish I hadn't done this.

>> Did I hear you say that? >> Yes. >> Did I hear you say that?

>> Okay. So, what's what's the cabin worth, huh? What's the cabin worth?

>> So, so the cabin is worth 3. It's what I

bought it for. >> Good. And what do you owe against it?

>> Um, I owe about 350. It was I think it's

Yeah, 350. >> Okay. So, you put almost nothing down.

Um, I did put money down, but the interest was so bad that it when I put

it down, it was like 3

53 um, at the time. >> Yeah. But you you you didn't put much down. >> No. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, you don't have a lot of equity. >> So, I'm not even sure you can if you sell it, you might not even break even.

Agreed.

>> That's agreed. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. I >> have you thought about putting it up for sale?

>> I have. I have a um a realtor actually

going to come over tomorrow morning because I put a lot of work into the home. So, when it got appraised, one of the things that was noted was the fact that it hadn't been touched. The house was built in like 1978. Most of the cabins up here are very old. >> So, if you've done all this work to it, why has it not gone up in value?

Um, well, I I I'm going to get the comps tomorrow. >> Oh, so you don't know what it's worth right now. Okay. >> I I don't know. I'm just going based off of what Zillow is saying. Like the market >> Zillow is not Don't use Zillow as truth.

Okay. That gross.

>> So hopefully hopefully it'll be more.

Hopefully. >> Let's pretend it's 400. >> That's what I'm hoping. >> Yeah. Let's pretend it's 400 and you and you can sell it and you sell it and your problems go away.

>> Mhm. >> Is there something wrong with this plan?

Nothing's wrong with this plan. The only thing is So that's why I'm I'm debating.

I I just don't know because I'm seeing I follow um houses on here on Zillow like

religiously. >> Yeah, you need to not addiction.

>> It probably isn't. I I like to see what houses are actually selling for versus what they're being, you know, you know, you can list it for whatever you want to list it for, but right now it's like not a buyer market. So, I'm very I'm kind of

stressed about that. I'm like, well, could I actually really >> But you're kind of stressed about keeping it, too.

>> That's true. Yeah. So listen, I think you need to really carefully define that what you did with this purchase, >> the way you did this purchase, the purpose you did this purchase for as a group, those set of ideas were bad.

>> They did not bring you a good result.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz you're stressed, you're behind on your bills, life's not good, >> nothing turned out like it did in your little dream when you were surfing Zillow, >> right? >> Mhm. And so, so now you need to reset and go, if I'm going to do real estate,

it has to be different than the way I did this. This sucks.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Sell it.

>> Yeah.

Okay. >> Sell it. I want you to have your life back. I like you.

>> Thank you. I want my life back, too. I I I do a lot in my life and have a lot of hobbies and obviously everything has to been being put on hold because I'm barely keeping up stress. Yes. Dr. John

Deloney always says solve for peace.

What creates peace in my life? This is not bringing you peace. This is bringing you stress and harm and lack of sleep because you're stressed about all of it.

Right. So So just why why would you I'm just curious from you. I that there's a little bit of the hesitation. Why? Why are you hesitant? >> She hasn't given up on the Airbnb Zillow surfing dream. >> No, actually actually I I don't care for Airbnb and I and I did say that after I got into it.

It's like it's something about and it's because most people when they do Airbnb obviously the home is a secondary home for me. I am here whenever it's not booked because like I said I own a cabin with my dad four minutes away. So I don't have personals here. It's kind of all over the place. My purse is at my mom's house. I have a bag here of things that I need. And >> that doesn't answer Rachel's question.

What's your hesitation? >> Yeah. >> Sell the hesitation is that I I bought

the house and I felt very proud of myself as a young girl. Buying a house in California is really hard. And so I'm just stressed because I'm like, am I going to be able to do this again? I went through like leaps and bounds to get it the first time. And it was really

>> you you Yeah. You you you took a lot of jumps and did a lot of dances and ran around the barn three times and clicked your heels and finally got the house and

it ended up not being anything like you thought it was going to be. You forced a situation. I am proud of you for getting something done, but I was your age when I went broke and because I did it wrong.

You don't have to go completely broke.

Thank God. you can just dump this thing and learn your lesson and go, "The way I did this, the set of assumptions I used to make this decision were wrong."

>> And Britney, >> everybody makes mistakes. >> And yes, buying a home is a great thing, and we want that. I think that's a that's a smart decision in life, but that's not who you are, right? I feel like you're you're tying your identity to this decision that you've made. And for some reason, if you go back on that, it's like you're a failure or something.

Like you who you are, your net worth is not your self worth. this is it's not it doesn't equal who Britney is and so separating those things out and saying this is who I am with a house or not with a nice car or not with a second home or not like you are who you are and then all of these other things are additions in your life and we want to make sure the things that are additional in your life are blessing you and are

good for you and not taking away. So this is this may feel like a step back for you but it's not. I think it's a learning idea and you will buy a house again. I really do believe that Britney, you will.

But you just have to be smart about it and just to be able to have the humility to say, "Yeah, this was not a smart decision [music] right now, but it's not who you are. You're not a failure." Right? And so, you got to separate those two things.

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>> [music]

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Andrew is in Washington DC. Hi, Andrew.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> And thanks for taking my call. Sure. I uh wanted to get your advice. Um, last year in July, I had to take a trip to the emergency room. I had to get two CT scans at the time. Everything turned out to be fine, no issues. Um, but unfortunately, >> uh, because of my insurance situation at the time, the bill was not covered in

any aspect. And I am currently sitting on a $24,000 ER bill. Uh, that has now

gone to debt collection. Um the debt collector initially offered um 75% of

that payment. So like 18K uh which I was

not going to accept because I think it's just ridiculous. So I'm now on probably my third back and forth with the debt collector and I just wanted to see what kind of advice you may have for trying to improve the situation.

>> What's your household income?

>> I make around 115 every month. So >> and you have money then to write the check? I I do I could write it outright.

It's really just a principal thing for me. >> Okay. And the principle is what?

>> Uh well, number one, I'm actually trying to save up as much as humanly possible for >> the principle of why you don't want to pay them $24,000 that they say you owe is what? >> Sure. Because they charged $9,000 for

one CT scan, $8,000 for another. The remainder is the the rest of the six-hour ER visit, which uh at least in

my in some of my research seems to be well above uh the average payment for CT scans, etc. >> So, what did your research say?

>> Uh probably around 5,000 4 to 5,000 at most for CT scan.

>> Okay. >> And I am in the DC area, which means it's more expensive.

>> Okay.

Um,

were you uh incapacitated at the time?

>> No.

>> Okay.

Uh, and you knew you didn't have insurance when you went in there?

>> Well, technically I didn't. So, I was in between jobs at the time and I had purchased insurance, but I didn't realize I was outside of my 30-day window from the purchase state when I went in is the problem. I didn't read the fine print. Okay. If you ever visit a collections operation that collects medical bills, you will find people sitting in small cubicles with lots of

fluorescent lights with headsets on

calling all day long.

And these are people that couldn't get a job at a 7-Eleven.

Now, this is who you're dealing with.

>> That's correct. Yeah. And they and their average time on the job is about 30 days because as soon as they can find something better and almost anything's better, they take it. >> Sure.

>> This is who you're trying to get to negotiate with on a basis of logic and market value of a CT scan. This guy can't hadn't got two brain cells to rub together to do this deal with. So your only shot is to continue to just beat on that organization because you're probably seldom even going to talk to the same person.

of your calories are you going to burn to do this. The other only option I can think of is to call and actually try to get a meeting with someone in the administration of the hospital and sit down and say, "I don't have insurance to cover this. I thought I did when I was in there." I guess I wouldn't have cared that you were screwing my insurance company, but I do care that you're screwing me.

And so I think you ought to charge me market rate, which is half of what you're trying to charge me for a CT scan.

This is ridiculous.

And try to negotiate it, right? Or try to negotiate it and just say, you know, I had no idea what I had gotten into.

Please, you're a mercy operation. Have some mercy on me. Uh but you've got the money, so we really can't play the mercy card.

But um but I think you just try to get someone that is actually in a position to make a decision. And this bill collector is not.

>> No, but the bill collector could be negotiated with. >> Yeah. A ways. But you're not I don't think you're going to get them down to where you're going to end up happy with this. So again, I don't know how much time and effort you want to put into five grand.

>> You make 11,000 a month.

>> I'd be happy slicing it down, you know, at least to get 10K off of it is sort of my my mindset. You're right. It's already consumed so much. if you might get that from a bill collector, but I don't think they're going to have the power to do that unless unless the bill gets very very old in all that time.

Every day this sits its ding in your credit, by the way. It's an unpaid bill.

It's out for collections.

So, your credit goes down every day while if if you're worried about that. I don't worry about that personally, but um you know, but I we've had some luck sitting down in person and asking for mercy on the behalf of broke people or asking for reasonleness on the market value of something if I pay cash for a medical procedure. >> Yeah, that's why I always wonder the the moral card. I mean, I get he's frustrated because he's like, you know, there is market value elsewhere and you

could probably have a whole discussion about do things really cost all this, but there is a point that, you know, you got the service. >> Yeah. You got the service and you didn't the time to have negotiated it would have been while you're sitting there, >> right? >> What are you charging me for the CT scan?

>> Right. Right. >> You know, but I guess if you're sitting there in the emergency room, I don't know. I mean, that's a they kind of got you >> cornered in a sense.

>> Yeah. Over a barrel, so to speak.

So, I >> Yeah. Um the the only moral thing you've got is is that they're basically charging you double market >> because they can and because it's the ER >> and because it's after the fact >> which is really an immoral practice, you know, really it is. So >> yeah. >> Um so >> so is the is the good fight worth the extra fight? Because they they said he said they would take 17.

>> Yeah. >> The bill collect. You know what I mean? So if you're trying to get half to your point, it's five grand.

How much is your time? push on a little bit, but you can either push on a little bit with the bill collector or go all in and try to get try to circumvent the bill collector and go to the administration at the hospital. And again, I find very reasonable people at the administration of the hospital. I mean, we've had people going with $200,000 bills that had $2.

and you actually talk to a human.

>> You end up with an, you know, ICU bill

and u the hospital looks at them and goes, "We're not going to collect this.

So, if you'll pay us 5,000 bucks, you know, we're going to write it off as, you know, charity. >> And that's what it is. It's a gift. And we've had hospitals do that. They're generally the hospital themselves are generally usually with people financially that are in need.

>> Yeah. That's if they're in need. That's if they're in need. I I >> have, you know, I the only time I've had luck with this negotiation is on the front end, not on the back end.

>> Meaning, for instance, uh an MRI. Oh my gosh. We've actually advertised for private cash upfront MRIs on several uh

local radio stations over the years >> and it's like a fourth >> of what they charge your insurance company >> and you can walk in there for I don't know whatever it is call it a h 100red bucks instead of 400 bucks or 200 bucks instead of 800 bucks or whatever but it's nothing if you just walk in pay cash for it but if you walk in there with your insurance card they it's 4x and and then you wonder why your insurance is expensive. So, uh, but that that's, you know, that's the that world.

So, um, wow. Strange, harsh, it's tough.

Uh, uh, yeah. And, uh, the moral of the story, of course, is, uh, make sure we have our insurance in place between jobs and, be very, very diligent about all that kind of stuff. Um, Cobra, whatever else you got to do while you're making a step from one career to another. Mhm. Yeah.

Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great um place that if you are in between jobs even um they're a healthcare provider. They're like a substitute of insurance.

>> Well, and they're actually uh sponsoring uh they're one of the sponsors for this weekend's marriage and money, right? >> Yes. Money and marriage. >> Money and marriage. I got it >> backwards. Yep. The weekend with a lot of people here already that are going to be joining us. We got a couple hundred of them in the lobby watching the show today because it starts tonight and goes through the whole weekend with Rachel and uh Rachel Cruz and Dr. John Deloney.

Um, again, another sellout. This This is a huge event. >> Yeah, it's been fun. This is our gosh, I don't even know what number we've done, but it's been um Yep. Very exciting.

Always fun. We uh try to do new content >> now. Is the one is the one in February for the uh Valentine's Day one. Is it

sold out? >> No, >> not quite. Not quite yet. So, if you want to come to that, it's on campus here. And um you know, the show, by the way, is on the glass. We do the show from 1:00 to 4 every day on the glass.

And so you can sit in the lobby, get homemade chocolate chip cookies on us, get coffee that's incredible on us. And

um sit and, you know, watch the show and it's a there's always a crowd here of uh anywhere from two to 200. Sometimes there's two people, but there sometimes there's 200. Like today, there's probably 300 out there, but yeah. Uh and it's going to be a great weekend. There's a lot of uh incredible speakers lined up. Lot lot of mystery speakers.

>> I wonder who they might be. >> Going to be fun. I know >> y'all are in for a treat.

>> It's going to be great. >> Trick or treat. [laughter]

[music]

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>> [music]

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>> Today's question comes from Drew in Pennsylvania. My wife and I are 35 years old with no children yet. We are on baby step seven and have $750,000 in retirement and a half a million dollar home with a balance owed of $250,000.

Okay. So, you're not on baby step seven quite yet. Uh, I hear you talk about having enough life insurance to replace our income, but my current income is 375,000 and my wife's is a h 100,000. With no debt, is it really necessary to have insurance in place before we have children? Well, again, life insurance is there to replace your income. And you guys are living, I don't know, lifestyle-wise, I mean, you're, you know, close to half a million making that per year. And so I would consider

you self-insured once the home is if the home is paid off, that feels self-insured to me. But if something were to happen to you and your wife was making a hundred grand, could would she be okay with the mortgage? Could she pay all of that and be self-sufficient? So I No.

Yeah. So I like the idea of still having 10 to 12 times your annual income um for a buffer. And if you guys are both healthy at 35, I mean Winston and I just redid our life insurance probably two years ago and we did term life with Xander and it's just so inexpensive that a part of me is like just do it now and then once the house is paid off then you guys can have that discussion. But it's so inexpensive.

definitely still keep it because again if something happened to you, your wife makes 100 grand, you know, how what what's that stress going to be for her of having to still make that uh mortgage payment every month? you know, there's less of a burden uh on you guys than if

you had uh children and your wife did

not have a wonderful career that she has. Okay? But if something happens to you, she's in a pinch right now. That's

a lot of house for 100k.

And um so yeah, you you need to be carrying some on you. Now, if you want to do a different formula than the typical the typical formula I recommend, and Rachel just quoted it, is 10 to 12 times your income in insurance. Now, the reason for that, let's just back up. Let's pretend someone else called in.

They said, "Okay, I make $80,000 a year." So 10 to 12 times would be $800,000 to a million dollar, which on a 35-year-old is the cost of a pizza if you don't smoke and you're not fat.

Okay? It's simple. Obesity and smoking are kill your rates. All right? And so if you're in good decent shape and you don't smoke, and those are both things you can control, by the way. Hello. And so um you know now you get good rates

and it's very inexpensive to have a million dollars. Now if you got a million dollars and you die just for general this is why we have this formula. In other words um your wife is left with two little kids and they count on your $80,000 to eat with um and you

get a million she gets a million dollar check when you die. Uh you put that in good mutual funds and let's say just for easy numbers it makes 10%. 10% of a

million dollars is h 100,000 minus taxes looks a lot like what you used to make.

8 800,000 invested 10% that'd be 80,000

which is what you used to make. And so it creates that perpetually every year it will send your widow or widowerower

with the little kids what your check used to be. That's why we get the formula now. So, if you want to use that idea in this situation and say, "Well, we don't need $4 million worth of insurance on this guy cuz she doesn't have to have 400,000 his $375,000

income to eat. She's going to be okay." But let's say she that you guys looked at and said, "Well, we want to make sure she does have a h 100,000 to help her pay to go with her 100,000.

That's a $200,000 income to pay this house." >> Yeah. or you know I want to leave her enough to get some and enough to pay off the house. So you could say million dollars instead of $4 million right now >> because yeah she'd pay the house off >> and then she'd write check pay off the house put 750 in the bank in a good mutual fund with a good Smart Ver pro not the bank and um now you're making

$75,000 a year with no house payment that's a and that's really really inexpensive again. Mhm.

>> Uh and so yeah, I would do something. In other words, and here's the other thing.

Uh you're 35 years old with no children

yet.

I'll just kind of tell you from 35 years of doing this, as soon as you get the life insurance going, the kids's going to come. So, you're going to have to reup the You're going have to double the life insurance anyway. It's come. So, go ahead. Go ahead and get the million with plans to get three more million because it's coming. Yeah. You know, yet. All right, Jack is in Wyoming. Hey, Jack.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well, sir. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have um a dad who has always helped me out with pretty much everything in my life, and I'm I'm extremely grateful and I love him. I love him to death. and uh he's mentioned that my fiance and I once we get married and and we sort of decide to buy our first house um that he'd be more than willing to kind of buy it for us and then have him have him just kind of act in the bank. Um he he's mentioned no interest on that and and all the all the good things that come along with that.

how do I do it? He's

[laughter] Dave's looking at me, Jack, for me to be the bearer of bad news for you. Uh, it will change your relationship.

[clears throat] So, I mean, there's no way around it. It does. And so, when scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender, your dad is now your bank.

>> He's your master. >> And so, now it changes the relationship.

Whether you like it or not, as healthy and wonderful as the relationship is, this almost always ends up putting a strain. And so, I wouldn't do it. I would not sacrifice the most amazing relationship you have with him, which is such a gift to be a grown son and have that much respect and love and honor for your father. Keep it pure.

Keep it simple. Keep it clean. And you and your fiance, you guys, just go and and >> go have your life. >> Yes.

Go have your life. Do not eat.

>> Uh now, now let me tell you, and it will affect your wife more than it'll affect you.

>> She'll feel the she'll feel the strain in the air more than you will because you and your dad have a quality relationship. So, you won't feel it as much. All right? Uh but it's there and

it's it's an unnecessary strain for a few interest points. Now, let me give you one other question and then I'll tell you some one more thing. The um it's a great question, by the way, and I'm so happy you got such a good relationship with your dad. It's such a wonderful gift, especially in our culture today when it's more and more rare. >> Yeah. >> Um the uh

what's your dad's net worth? You any idea?

>> I I I don't, but it's I mean, he does he

does very well for himself. Um >> I mean, is that a million or 20 million?

Uh, it's probably somewhere around 10 10 to 12. >> Okay. And the house price would be about what?

>> That's that's would would have been part two of my question had we had we gotten to that point. Um, but I mean you're what are y'all thinking? I mean, if you just threw out a number >> like a 500,000 you're brand new getting married in Cheyenne, Wyoming, half million dollars to buy a great house, right? >> Exactly. Yep. >> So, if I were your dad, I might give you a house.

>> Okay. instead of being the bank.

>> A gift has not got the strings tied to it. I might ask you to uh make sure that you invest the equivalent of a house payment so that my grandkids never have debt.

You could break the He could break the cycle forever. >> I know. I feel weird for him asking his dad that. >> I know. I'm I said I might ask your dad.

I'm not sure you would, but you might play this for him. Um David, >> I might I might have just asked him. He might hear this. So, um I [laughter] mean so the the other thing is this. The other thing is this. Okay. When we went broke 35 years ago, Sharon and I lost

everything. >> Um her dad loaned us a little bit of

money to get the water turned back on

and to catch the car up so it didn't get repoed and some stuff like that. Okay.

And it was it was not a huge amount, but it was an amount of money. Okay. And he is an absolute saint. He is one of the

nicest men I have ever met on the planet. And my wife and him have a great relationship.

The fact that I owed him money drove me

bonkers until I got it paid off.

>> And so that's your wife.

That's the in-law. That's where she's sitting. I wouldn't do it. [music] >> Yeah. Just keep it clean, Jack.

>> [music]

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Riley is in North Carolina. Hi, Riley.

How are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you and Rachel?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. Yeah, I own a uh service business

in the HVAC industry uh Thermostat Masters and we've been running that business now for a few years. And during the during running this business, we've started to develop a product. Um, I'm about 80,000 in on this product uh for

R&D and we are now at a point where

we've got the minimal viable product.

We're ready to essentially take this to investors is the direction that I want to go because we bootstrapped it this entire time. Uh, and really the advice that I'm looking for is how how do I how do I acquire funding um

for a product, especially I've just opened a new LLC for the product in order to protect my service company uh

from any debt or you know any kind of suing that may occur during this process. Um, so this new LLC doesn't

have any history. um how how do I

acquire funding for this and and and

also how do I structure the conversation with investors? I have some in mind, but then there's going to be locating the ones that I that don't know me as well.

Um how do I structure that conversation?

>> Uh it's very difficult because you don't have any track record. All you've got a a modified dream at this point. uh you

you've got a wish. And so if you were Shark Tank in this, they'd throw you off because you got no you got no history of of uh cash flow. You didn't come in and say, "I've sold 80,000 units and I want to take it to 8 million units and I need an investor." >> Um you came in and said, "I have a dream and I turned it into a prototype and I've made no money so far." So what does your what do you think it's going to cost you to produce this thing per unit?

So per unit we're looking at about $98

per unit and volume at 220

uh on what kind of volume that that is I'm not sure what kind of volume that is but that's the projected >> how did you project it? I mean did you get a bid from somebody to produce it?

>> Actually yeah I've got uh >> okay for how many years that have been working on it. >> Um I'm I don't have the answer to that question. I'm sorry. So, they gave you a bid to make one for 98 or a million for 98? We don't know.

>> No. Right. No. I If I had to say, it'

probably be 20,000 units if I had to say, but uh it wasn't going to be a gigantic number. No. Not nothing like a million. >> All right. Um Well, it it's very difficult to attract an investor to this. I mean, you got a you got a cost of goods sold at 50% is what you're telling me. You say that you think you can sell it for the two 200 $220 range.

Where is it going to sit in a a Home Depot or at? Is it going to be wholesaliled out to other HV other HVAC guys and they sell it to their customers or how you going to distribute it? Do you think?

>> Uh the idea that actually goes into business model and it's something that I I wouldn't be able to really discuss on on the business model of how that's going to go for legal reasons.

>> Well, yeah, you can. It's not. Nobody can steal the fact you're going to put it in Home Depot cuz they don't have home. They don't even know what we're talking about. But anyway, all right.

So, you're going to have a real hard time discuss getting an investor for this. A very hard time. And I would I would honestly I would counsel you against getting an investor, but you're you're dead set on it. I have a friend that says uh when you bring in venture capitalist, it's like picking up a hitchhiker and then they hijack your car.

>> Well, I'm not dead set on I'm not I'm not dead set on anything right now. I'm actually just calling for advice because into it and uh we >> what I would do, let me give you an example. I'll make up a thing that's not your thing, but I'll just make up a thing. Let's say that you wanted this thing to sit on the shelf in Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ace Hardware, and Tractor Supply. Okay? Um then I would go pocket

and put out um I'd go make a thousand of

them. You've already got 80 grand in it.

put another 100 grand in it of your money, make 80,000, make a,000 of them, and let's put them on some shelves, and let's see if we can get them to come off the shelves. If that's your model, if you're going to go on the internet and just create a web page and try to get an Instagram buy or uh or, you know, keywords on Google or whatever, then,

you know, you can post it there and try to sell it just online and and actually sell some units. That's going to give you two things to attract capital. One is a track record and the other is anyone that's going to put capital in this knows that your prototype is not ever going to make it to market. You put out the first thousand units, you're going to get customer feedback that makes you change the design 100% of the time.

>> Oh yeah. >> 100% of the time. We don't know what we don't know until we put it out in the wild. And that's business.

rules of business apply. It takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It costs twice as much as you think it's going to. and you're not the exception.

Those are the three rules of business.

And so, um, just plan on that. And I

would cash flow it and walk it out organically >> and see if you can't make the thing cash flow itself and keep the ownership. I would rather you sell a,000 and then 10,000 and then 20,000 and then a

100,000 and 10 years from now sell 800,000 and you own 100%. then you give

up 90% or 80% of your equity and they

bastardize your whole idea, which is what's going to happen. You're going to end up pissed when you're through dealing with these people because they're going to take your company over.

Uh that's what's going to they're going to take your little baby and they ain't going to rock it the way you want it rocked. Uh because they know more than you do and it's their money and that's what's going to happen. That's how these deals work, dude. And I'm not mad about it.

If you're a venture capitalist, I'm not mad at you. That's what you do. you you you know more than this guy and so you take it over and you go do it for him and he gets a little something and he would have gotten nothing if he had done it himself maybe. But I'm going to tell you to do what we did and that's we've cash flowed everything from the ground up >> and it is it's a slower process to do that.

Yep. But >> you're not going to be on the cover of Fast Company magazine.

>> and you but you're gonna be open >> but you're and you're going to own it. Pay cash for your go pay cash for your experiments because you can call them failures if you want, but they're experiments. >> This first prototype is an experiment.

>> Get it out there in the wild. Let people kick it around. Let them tell you your baby's ugly and then you you put some lipstick on that sucker. Put it back out there, right? And that that's what that's what we do, man. That's those of us that are entrepreneurs. We live in a state. I mean, entrepreneurism is like golf. It's a series of failures.

It's a series of experiments. you even professional golfers, it's a series of failures. They still don't ever hit exactly what they want to hit. >> Mhm. >> Never. Otherwise, every time they swing the club, it' be a hole in one, right? I mean, it's impossible. So, and business is exactly the same way. We don't ever have a book do what we think it's going to. It does about what we think it's going to because we've done a bunch of books, but still, it's a thing. So, it's

a cool discussion though, Riley. I'm really glad you're doing this. guys like you are the ones that that you could end up worth 10 or$20 million dollars off this one idea if you don't um let it break you and if you'll just

be be comfortable being the tortoise and not the hair. But I there's no one I

kept thinking when we first started man that someone was going to come along and discover Dave Ramsey and get me on all these radio stations. We're on 680 radio stations today. We're the second largest talk radio show in America. three radio hall of fames 35 years later. We got every one of those stations one at a time. No one has still discovered me.

There are people that still don't think I'm in radio. And so, um, but you know,

and it's me and Sean Hannity. We own the place, you know. I mean, it's like and so, uh, but it's and now we've got, you

know, I just got a hundred million streams on freaking Spotify.

>> We did the Ramsay show. What?

>> I get You know what? I was I I was here part of the time. That's right. And then I I picked up picked [laughter] up the little trophy thing to take a picture with it and broke it. >> You have I know. >> I broke the trophy thing from Spotify.

>> But what you've done trophy was cheap. I broke it. >> To your point though, what you've done and I feel like we've even >> We did it incrementally. >> Yes. And yeah, you you and the team, I mean, it's amazing. Um, and even knowing people that we've interacted with in life that started with an idea, kind of a small thing, they grew it and then, you know, we had friends over, they did a thing for 10 years and then sold it.

>> Yeah. >> And now they are sold it for a good amount of money. A lot of money.

>> Even really that could be your liquidity moment. >> Yeah. of like, hey, what if you have an idea, you have a thing, and you run it to ground for 10 years, and then it's done well, then you sell it to some cap, you know, venture capitalist, and you get to ride off into the sunset. Like, >> you're going to make a lot more that way. >> Yep. So, >> the sweat is not over, Riley, my friend.

More sweat, more calluses are in your future before more money. You have not gotten there yet. You got >> Before YouTube hates [music] me, you did. You built this. Well done, Dave.

>> No, no, it's okay. You did. [laughter] >> I I I got it to a certain level and you guys have taken it to the moon.

>> It's okay. I'm a good platform to jump off of. I'll take it.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open Phones at88255225.

Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy

Hour, and this weekend's sold out marriage and money or money and marriage event with Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, my daughter. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at825-55225.

Greg is in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Greg.

How are you? >> Hey, good afternoon.

>> Afternoon. What's up?

>> I am interested. I'm looking to see when it's okay to spend some of our wealth that we've accumulated on some fractional ownership airplanes.

>> Okay. Um >> well, we've created quite a a bit of wealth. Um, we are looking at taking advantage of the bonus depreciation for our business and, uh, we're really interested in some, you know, private travel. >> Mhm. Okay. And so, um, how how much

wealth have you accumulated?

>> Um, without the value of our business, our assets are 50 million and assets, 45

million in net worth. And if we had to add value to the business, it would be 150 million. >> Mhm. Okay. Way to go, dude.

Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Very well done. >> Lots of hard work. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh Yeah. And you're probably like me. You get a little angry when people say you're so lucky.

[laughter] You're >> right. A lot of luck.

>> Yeah. I got I got a few calluses and I've been wearing overalls a long time.

But yeah, the uh All right. So, congratulations. I'm so proud of you.

Well, obviously there's a couple things here. So, private air travel falls in the category of ultra luxury, obviously.

uh but you're in a category of ultra wealth. Uh you're in the top 1% of wealth holders in the United States without a doubt. And so you you qualify

financially to be able to do that, it makes sense. And the way I look at that kind of thing is um Sharon and I when

we're looking at something that feels emotionally uncomfortable because it's

>> so weird from the neighborhood we grew up in. >> Do what? That's exactly how we feel. >> Yeah. Like I bought the 700 horsepower Raptor R. Okay. Which is a pickup truck,

but it's a race car. Okay. Yes.

>> And uh it was ridiculously expensive. It

like costs more than I used to make a year >> kind of thing. It like freaked me out >> for about 30 seconds with those purchases. >> Yeah. For about 30 seconds. And this kind of falls in that category. So, we ask ourselves when we're making doing something like that is number one, is our generosity healthy? Are we healthy with our giving?

Uh, number two, uh, if we take the amount of money we're getting ready to blow on this toy

and burned it in the middle of the floor, would our life change at all? And

the answer in your situation is no, it would not.

>> Correct. >> Because it's not that much money. I mean, you're talking about what, couple million bucks.

>> It's $5 million over three years with a guaranteed buyback over three years as well. So, it's >> uh $3 million spent on and that's

without using any of the tax benefits.

>> Yeah. And and we don't do deals for tax benefits. You brought up tax benefits twice. That always makes me nervous. Don't use that to justify it. Do it do it in Do it because it makes sense and then take the tax benefits. And it makes sense for you in your world to never see

another TSA agent.

>> That is what my wife says. >> Yeah, I think it makes sense. I mean, because you you know, you're making serious bank and a million dollars a year for three years. It it ain't spit, man. >> It's like other It's like It's like other people buying a biscuit.

>> I do. I feel guilty the way I grew up with having nothing in a sense. And it's hard. again is you check yourself. Is is

this all about me and am I out of control trying to be like some

>> uh reality show person or something uh or some influencer or some kind of crap, right? Or am I am I doing this for other people say motivation or am I doing this for me and my family and my generosity

is >> probably far superior to this small purchase ratio wise. This is a small purchase. then you are not spiritually or ethically or morally out of line.

>> Okay? >> You're supposed to enjoy some of your

money. >> Okay? >> Okay. >> I I have a friend I have a friend that makes um about 60 million a year

>> and um he uh his net worth is uh

probably two billion and he just bought a $52 million Challenger 100%. No

fractional. >> Yeah. And that's a sweet aircraft, by the way. Oh, that is God.

>> Yeah. But anyway, yeah, but anyway, that that's that's the deal. So, you know, that I would go do it. I would go do it.

That's the answer to your question. And and enjoy it and don't feel guilty and expect other people to not understand

um there are no statues erected to critics except actually I said that and a guy sent me one. >> Oh, no. >> Did you know [laughter] that? Did you know the remember the movie critic [snorts] Roger Eert? >> Yeah, >> there's a statue Roger Eert and he's a critic. >> So there's actually one statue somewhere in the world erected to a critic. But critics don't they don't get a vote.

>> Okay. Because they haven't done what you've done. It's not their money. It's your money. Yeah. >> God didn't trust them with it. He trusted you with it. And it's a small percentage of your world.

>> And again, check yourself with, can I burn that much money in the floor? And is my generosity very healthy? And is my motivation good today? >> Is my motivation for other people or for me? Yep. That's right. That's right.

>> If no one knows you did this ever, is it

still a good purchase?

>> And that's what, you know, uh I, you know, I I probably shouldn't say that after I just said this, but I didn't buy the Raptor cuz I thought it was somebody else thought it was cool. I bought it cuz I thought it was cool. >> You thought it was cool. [laughter] I parked my uh Tesla right by it today.

Yeah. >> In the parking lot. >> Well, you >> plugged in and I bet I did. Did you feel [laughter] Did you feel a bit a bit of shame? >> No. I I bet it would beat your Raptor.

>> It probably would. Probably would.

>> So, >> I think I could beat your Tesla in a 100 foot run, though. I think on foot I can beat it for the first 100 feet.

>> No. >> Yeah, >> it >> Nothing Nothing comes out. Don't ever take that bet. Nothing comes out of the hole that fast. Not even a Tesla. >> Wait, what? >> I'm just telling you. I I'll talk to you about it later. Open phones at 88 [laughter] 8255225.

From 0 to 60. From zero to the first 100 feet, a person can outrun a car.

>> No. >> 100% of the time. >> That is not true.

>> Check it out. Go try it. Y'all go down the parking lot. We're gonna do it after all of us. Meet me down there and then we'll all go up on the hill and go to >> We'll see when Dave pulls a hammy.

[laughter] >> Oh man. >> You never know. The Tesla will outrun the Raptor though to your point. >> Yes.

Thank you. Thank you. No, but the that is a question we get I feel like more and more probably. >> But I do have the benefit of not I don't have the shame of driving a rolling battery.

>> Oh my gosh. [laughter] >> I do have that. >> We don't ever have to go to a gas station. We could keep going.

We could keep going. We could keep [laughter] going.

>> Uh but the question of spending because we do get that more and more and especially people on >> God because people are winning with money. That's a wonderful question. >> Yes. Yes. But the the emotions to your point >> it's hard to catch up >> don't catch up always mathematically to where people are when they start winning and >> it's you know we have 1100 employees we buy coffee our coffee bill when I see it is emotional I mean it's like I don't make

what in the world unbelievable I remember years you know you should [laughter] tell those dad jokes you know when I walked uphill both ways in the snow you know it's like golly man but it's coffee everything with scale is just whack But I will say money it can be it can be a dangerous thing too. So the fact that he's kind of pumping the brakes and asking I think is a very that's a healthy mindset. So I think that's really really wise. >> The ones that are in trouble are the ones that don't ask about it.

You're right.

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[music]

>> [music]

>> Terra is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Tara. How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question for you is, how do I continue with the baby steps if I don't have a home or any children?

>> Well, you obviously wouldn't need to save for kids college. So, baby step five does not apply.

>> Um, what's [clears throat] your housing situation?

Um right now I live at home and um so

that you know I basically my parents go away and um I take care of the house and

I stay at home and that's kind of where I'm at right now with that. I've been looking to purchase a house um but things are incredibly expensive. So until that happens uh I'm just saving

money and living at home. >> What do you make?

>> Sorry. What do you make? How much money do you make? >> I make about $60,000 a year.

>> Um, it's can be kind of flexible because I'm uh a 1099.

>> Okay. And when you say your parents go away, are they traveling and you like house you take care of the house while they're gone?

>> Yeah. >> And do you do that as a favor or do they pay you as like a house manager when you're when they're gone?

>> No, I do that >> just Okay. Part of it.

>> Um, but kind of in exchange. Okay.

Instead of paying rent, for instance, you're >> helping take care. Okay. Perfect. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I would say you're on baby step 3B, Tara. At that point, I mean, I would be investing money into retirement, but I would be saving for a down payment for a house. That'd be my next financial goal. >> Yeah.

>> Yep. That's what I'm That's what I'm doing. So, for now, would you say that I'm just kind of like just ride on that and keep saving? >> Yeah. build up a nice huge down payment for a house because longterm, you said it, but also it's proper. It's good financial planning. Longterm, you want to be the owner of a home.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. And it doesn't have to be today.

It doesn't have to be tomorrow. You got a good situation right now. Um but if

you know, if you got a big old pile of cash, then the options start opening up.

And also long-term your income could go up. you could increase the quality of your uh you know your contacts and your 1099 business and you know d instead of making 60 be making 120 and you look up and you got 100,000 saved and uh and then something changes with the housing with mom and dad and you're ready to go buy and that's perfect.

>> Okay. And um would you say so when I'm investing I am maxing out my Roth IRA um

and the rest of my money I have in like high yield savings and in CDs. Um, would

you say that my money is best spent

anywhere else?

>> No, I would either be putting it in high yield savings for a down payment for a house or I would be investing beyond the

Roth IRA. And as a 1099, there's a couple of other things you can do. You can do a SE IRA or you can do a simple IRA. Either one. Uh, and they're very

easy to set up with your Smart Invest Pro. If you want to put more than just your Roth IRA in, you can do both of those as Roths, very easy to do. So, just if you want to do more investing and less towards the down payment, uh, just get in touch with one of the Smartves investor pros at ramseysolutions.com. One of the people we recommend for setting up a good mutual fund account, and they'll help you with your IRA investing. They can help you with high yield savings for that matter. But um yeah, you're just

chunking money for one of two things.

Either retirement or house down payment.

And you can just get as um at this position in the baby steps, you can go as heavy on one or the other as you want to. >> Yeah. I would I would probably try to hit that 15% and then anything above that put in your high yield for specifically for a down payment >> given that you have no rent. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I'm probably going to add another retirement program to your thing. Like I'm talking about a SE IRA or a simple IRA.

One of the two. Either one will work. Um and they're they're very easy.

>> Yeah, you're getting close. >> So, >> that's true. Great, Terra. Good job.

>> Get yourself to 15% and then go on towards the house. That's what I would do. >> Open phones at825-5225.

Allan is in Kansas City. Hi, Allan.

What's up?

Hey, thank you so much, Dave, for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Here's here. Yeah, here's my question.

So, I was a pastor for many years. And

um we after I got married, we had some

health issues that were kind of longterm that insurance wasn't going to be covering. And eventually, I had to uh

leave the pastor as a occupation and uh

take up another job. and uh I've been

working in now IT and CRM. I'm the head

of those two departments uh here in Moy,

Missouri. And anyway, I am I'm working

for a previous church member and I'm

just really wondering should I stay or should I go? Um I don't know if I'm

getting the the best pay and vacation is

what I you know I'm thinking of my family. Am I really doing the best for them? uh because you know we don't have

a lifetime of savings. We've done the best that we can but I'm playing a lot of catchup just because of where we came from. >> Okay. >> So there's a lot of lot of background information to all of that. I'm more than happy to share but uh >> okay >> fire away with any questions you have.

>> Have you done any investigation on comp?

Um you know what your uh compensation is

worth? I mean, have you looked at what I can get a job for doing the same thing, you know, somewhere else?

>> I've done a little bit of looking on that and it seems that in the area that I'm in, if you only look at the IT work,

head of IT, that seems to be around 100.

What I'm having a hard time finding is what if you're doing it, but you're also involved in sales and you run the whole CRM and you're writing code for the CRM.

I I don't know if that boosts it a lot or or if it doesn't. It probably should boost it some.

>> Yeah. Because >> how much you getting paid now?

>> I'm right at 100 uh gross before

anything's taken out. >> Okay. And you're saying for just one part of your job, it's 100, but then you're what you're you're doing additional work, which you feel like you should be compensated for above what you're seeing.

>> Yeah. I'm wondering if I if I could be I've been pretty heavily involved in the sales department. and I made the the sales process and we didn't have a sales

uh >> how many people work at the company?

>> About 50. >> Okay. Do you have any idea what the top line gross revenue is?

>> Uh gross revenue is 9 million right now

>> with 50 people.

Wow.

>> They got a lot of payroll. Okay.

>> Yeah. the the staff uh the employees that we have has grown a lot over the past uh eight years uh that I've been here. Um the amount of money the company

makes has not grown so much, but a part of the direction is sort of planning for the future. There's been a lot of investment in product and the owners believe that the company's going to

explode over the next five years. Maybe not explode, but there'll be a good steady growth. >> Yeah. Okay. that I would hope I would hope that in other words, all this investment in payroll pays off. So, uh, >> right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,

well, I'm not sure they're in a position to afford a lot more right now. Um, but

as they start making more, I would expect to see some pretty good kicks in my income, uh, based on the fact that you're basically doing one and a half jobs at a minimum.

>> And so, the other thing you can do is this. Okay, so here's the thing. You you're not a belligerent person. You're not a prideful person. Um but you're just asking an honest question of value.

And so an employer wants to know what

they can what what they can make as a result of the work you do. In other words, if they pay you 100, they need to be making more than 100 off the work you do. I suspect they are. And then the second thing they want to know is if they if you leave, what does it cost to replace you? In other words, what's the market value of that position? And so,

if I were you, you're a detailed person, I would do a detailed comp study with

LinkedIn and a few of the other sites and try to figure out as close as you

can what you think this is worth and have a series of facts, one page of facts, not a 26-page study, okay? And

sit down with your owner with one page and go, I'm asking myself an honest question. And I want to ask you an honest question. Um, this looks like, tell me what I messed up, but this looks like my position is worth 150 in the marketplace or 125 in the marketplace.

This is what this looks like. What do you think? >> And I want to be honest and I want to be humble >> and what's my grow and if not, what's my growth trajectory look like? How can I >> what can I do to become worth that since it seems that this position is worth that.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a world-class

budgeting app. ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress on the Ramsey plan with your money. The average person finds thousands, literally thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes of starting up.

Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, Jeremy and Deborah are with us on

the DebtFree stage. What's up?

[screaming] >> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. [applause and cheering] >> Welcome. Welcome. >> How are you guys? >> Great. How are y'all? >> Where do y'all live? Charlotte, North Carolina, >> just over the hill. Welcome, man.

Welcome. Good to have y'all. And if you're on the debtree stage, it can only mean one thing. You're debtree. And how much have you paid off?

>> $85,614.

Very cool. And how long did this take?

>> 62 months. >> Good for you. Wonderful. And your range of income during that five years?

>> Uh 72 to 82,000.

>> Cool. What do y'all do for a living? >> Uh we own a a small business in Charlotte doing uh custom window treatments. >> Oh, very cool. Good for you. >> That's awesome. >> What kind of debt was this? $86,000.

>> It was OUR HOUSE, DAVE.

>> WE DID IT. Walk away. [laughter] >> Who has an $86,000 mortgage? >> Right. Yeah. We had what was left on our mortgage. Um we had a little bit of a backstory with our with ours. Um we actually got out of debt, consumer debt about 10 years ago, following your principles. Um, and then we went through a stage of infertility and um, and ended up getting pregnant with our first daughter. >> Yay. >> That we we unfortunately lost her at 24

weeks. Um, but we knew that we needed to stack money for her. She we knew she was going to have needs. >> Um, so we put the house, you know, we paid the payments, but we put some extra on the side. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, in 2020, we were able to bring

our first daughter home.

>> Oh my gosh. And then in 21, we were able to bring our son home. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

Yes. >> Oh, it's much better than paying off a mortgage. >> Yes, it was. Um and over that time, we

we knew that we wanted to uh put them in really great school, uh take care of them like we were going to take care of their sister. And uh we kind of had that money sitting to the side and we had that left on our mortgage and we thought, you know what? Let's just do it. Let's be weird people.

>> Do [laughter] it. >> Just pay it off and we'll use the fact we don't have a mortgage to take care of the kiddos. Exactly. Yes. And it has blessed us. Uh they're able to go to a private Christian school and you know little things like that that we wouldn't have been able to do had we not done this. >> Wow. >> Huge blessing in our life. Thankfully.

>> What's the house worth? >> About 350,000. >> Way to go. Very good. >> Good job you guys. Thank you. >> You been stacking cash for this. Have you been investing as well? We have.

>> And how much is in your retirement nest egg? >> Probably about 200,000. >> All right. So over a half million dollar net worth already. >> Yep. >> Way to go y'all. And no stinking payments in the world.

>> Done. How's that feel?

>> Amazing. [laughter] It >> just happened. Shut up. Feels amazing to me. >> Sink in. It's got to sink in.

>> Made the last payment and had some major house problems. So, we had to deal with that and we're able to write a check for it. And so, it's not really fully sank in yet, but uh >> the next few months you'll Yeah, it's been a blessing to be able to do that and not go back into debt, you know, to be able to take care of the house needs. >> Yes, for sure.

Absolutely. >> You know, because a lot of people are call our show with that situation.

>> At least 100%. >> At least if not more, if not more.

>> Yeah. We spoke with you and John last year at the money marriage and had some um some advice for us for the situation where we were in and >> uh it helped us guide us to where we needed to do and >> one day we're just like no more. Write the check. Just do it. Build that count back up and boom. >> Love it. Yep. Yeah. Boom.

>> So great, you guys. Well done.

>> It's good to see you all again. I'm glad you're back. >> WE'RE SO EXCITED to be back. So fun.

>> Welcome back on the Ramsey campus. Yeah.

Good to have you. >> So now [snorts] with all this you've been through, you pay off the consumer debt, you stack cash, you fight the whole infertility battle, >> which is an emotional roller coaster.

>> It was. Yes. >> And uh the And then you turn around, look up, and go stack of cash, mortgage, gone. >> Yep. And so like three different major parts to this story almost timelinewise.

Um >> what's your advice to people and what's this you know when you when we always ask people you know what do you tell people about what you do to get out of debt? What was the key thing that enabled you to go through all three of those phases? >> Um I would say um yeah we you have to

have a team. You have to be a team. You have to be on the same page. um because it could have easily tore us apart.

>> You know, what we walked through infertility wise and then losing our daughter, that was very rough.

>> Um but it almost fueled a piece of me that it didn't fuel in him and and I was able to say, you know what, let's double down. Let's do this. Let's >> for our future for our future children and we're we're able to do that now. And the feeling of of knowing that we've changed our trajectory for our kids and their lives, >> you can't can't put money on that.

>> Yeah. You change your family tree. >> Exactly. We say it all the time, but it really does mean something.

Yes, >> it does. >> Where you guys came from, how you grew up, do you look and think like that was like where you're standing today, did that feel impossible? >> 1,000% for me.

>> I had I had great role models as a kid.

Um my dad was probably a Ramsay fan, but he didn't know it until until I met you.

And then, you know, then he he was all on board cuz he's like that's how he lived his life. And I I tried, you know, but then get married, make stupid decisions and, you know, pay lots of stupid tax on a lot of stuff, [laughter] >> you know, and then just, you know, being able to turn that corner and and know about the, you know, future that we want to have >> and the possibilities and, you know, are endless. >> What's the dumbest thing you ever did with money? >> Oh boy.

>> Much time we got left. I said, I just pick one. The best one >> probably vehicles. Yeah. Okay.

>> Buying vehicles that we had. No.

>> Yeah. I bought a 2016 fully loaded off the showroom floor Maxima with 20-in rims on it.

>> No money. >> And I had no money to my name.

>> Yeah. And that you bought that in 2016?

Yeah. Yeah. In 2016. Yeah. That wasn't now. You didn't buy that the other day. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. That's >> that's it. You know, since this whole journey, we've we've financed, you know, three pregnancies, >> you know, >> cash flow. Cash flow. Not financed.

>> Yeah. U [laughter] multiple vehicles in cash, you know. It's just um >> Yeah. whole reverse trend. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Never go back.

>> Well, I just want I wasn't doing that to make fun of you. I just want to remind people that you can do dumb things and not be dumb. Absolutely.

>> I I have done some incredibly stupid things and I'm not stupid, but I have done some stupid butt stuff in my life.

[laughter] And so I look back on I'm like you you're man, it's dumb.

>> But yeah, but then you go but I don't have to live that way. I can change. >> Right. the piece the piece that you get >> to have, you know, have foundation issues at your house that you, you know, oh, it's just an inconvenience like you say, >> in terms from an emergency fund, you know, it's just, >> you know, be able to >> pay for our kids school and, you know, it not be a question, you know.

>> So good. How old are the kids now?

>> Five and three. >> Five and three. Okay. So great.

Oh, >> were they kind of part of it? Was the 5-year-old like >> funny enough, she's she's she's learning. We have a school store at school, so she's learning about the privilege of earning and being able to buy what she wants. And we have the the kids >> um >> the financial piece.

>> Yes. Yeah, we have that for her. So, we're working through that with her. Um sometimes, you know, at five it goes in one ear.

>> 100%. Well, I was going to say cuz some kids, you know, people that are working the plan now that are listening, they have kids in the home and they're kind of, you know, part of that journey. Yours are obviously, yeah, they're younger, but but to think that they'll never know.

>> 100%. Well done you guys. Thank you so much. So good. So proud of y'all.

Cheerleaders who who was cheering you on. We got we got family friends here.

We met at the money marriage retreat last year, became friends and uh they they said they drive up to meet us >> whenever we did it.

>> And obviously we've had family um some here, some not here anymore. Yeah.

>> Wonderful.

>> Well, congratulations. We're very proud of you. Jeremy and Deborah, Charlotte, North Carolina. $86,000

paid off. House and everything. Yes,

they are official weirdos. They [laughter] did this in 62 months, making 72 to 82. Count it down. LET'S HEAR A DEBTREE SCREAM. 3 2 1. WE'RE DEBTREE.

YEAH.

YEAH, [applause]

>> you know, I uh you watch their

>> body language. You guys, if you're not watching this on video, [music] you watch their body language, Rachel, and the way they're interacting. The unity is is apparent just in their presence.

>> So strong >> that they're that they were they were knitted together by the >> by the tragedies and by the victories and by the victories.

>> And pretty cool. Y >> pretty cool stuff. Heat.

Heat.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10:16.

Look, I'm sending you out a sheep among wolves, so be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves. Ronald Reagan says, "The best view of the government is seen on a rear view mirror as one is driving away from it." [laughter]

Amen and amen. Oh, Elijah is in

Nashville. Hi, Elijah. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. Thanks to Thanks for calling you guys. >> Certainly. How can we help?

Well, um, my parents are in their mid-50s and don't really have a retirement plan in place, but they do have a car payment and an RV payment.

Um, so they're definitely upside down right now. So, for me, my parents can't,

it feels like my parents can't see what's so clear to me and my wife. What do you think we can share with them to help them understand? And ultimately, what do you think they should do in in their situation?

Well, you're in a very difficult position.

Uh we call it the powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't really want your opinion on money or sex.

>> So, they don't really care what you think. Uh, and so trying to give them advice, even though what you're saying is probably perfectly correct,

>> uh, you're you're in the least leveraged position to actually have influence.

Does that make sense?

>> Totally. >> Yeah. So, what I do in those situations

is a couple of things. I never talk about them, talk to them about what they should do, although by God, it's tempting, you know? Instead, I talk about what I've been doing.

>> And so, um, you know, I have a friend who trades cars and borrows money every time he trades cars and we're still friends, but he's dumb. Okay? And so, he's in car debt all the time. It's just dumb. And he knows I think it's dumb.

>> But I've never said a thing to him about it. But I have told him some wonderful stories about the piece I have driving cash paid for cars.

Yeah. >> So, I I would just say, you know, my wife, you know, if you're having Thanksgiving dinner or you and your dad are having a cup of coffee or whatever it is y'all do together, you say, "Hey, you know, we're doing this thing and you know, we've gotten out of debt and we don't have any car debt and we don't have any this and we built an emergency fund and gosh, Dad, I got to tell you, I'm so peaceful." That's the thing.

>> I'm so peaceful. I'm so hopeful.

>> It's tricky because they're the ones who taught me how to budget and they put me through FPU and so we're already >> Yeah. I would just bring it back on them then, but don't tell them they have to do it. Don't shame them. It'll have no benefit.

>> Just say, "Thank you for teaching me all those FPU lessons. This budgeting stuff y'all made me do. It's changed everything. We're going to, my wife and I, because you guys taught us that stuff.

We do it all. We don't borrow money. We're on a budget and we're going to be really, really wealthy. We're tracking to be millionaires by this date.

Thank you so much." And, "Wow, thank you. Thank you. Thank you." And then eventually they're going to go, "Oh, well maybe I ought to do it." But I mean, you really can't. You can if they say something like, "I wish I could do it," or something, then you could just go, "I know you could.

You're the one taught me. I know you could do it." >> And I think some of the the fear that we have that my wife and I share is that, you know, we at this point it doesn't really seem like they have a plan A. So plan B is to live with their kids.

>> Yeah. >> So that's kind of like therefore we're not planning to do that. That's not a plan, >> right? >> They they can plan to do that. But that's not an issue today. They're in their 50s.

>> Okay. They're okay. They got a RV payment and a car payment. They could turn this around in three years. It's not a problem. Sell the RV, get rid of the car payment, and start saving for they could be millionaires by the time they retire very easily if they turn it around today. so that I'm not worried about them moving in with you, but I'm just trying to figure out how to influence them. So, thing one is I do that. Thing two is I bring in experts.

And I was going to say give them a total money makeover book or give them one of Rachel's books or something and go, "Hey, this book really influenced me. I thought you might enjoy it." >> But you got a problem with that. If you give a fat person a diet book, it's kind of insulting. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. I I think you might ought to read this. >> You know, it's probably it's kind of harsh, right? So, you got to be careful with that.

And they know, >> I mean, they I mean, >> but in this case, they've already got the stinking book. They just aren't doing it.

The third thing I do is I ask myself, who could have influence?

>> Is it the old FPU coordinator? Is it the pastor at the church? Who is it that's a soldout FPU person that they would listen to or they might not listen to that young whippers snapper? Okay. Um,

right. And so forth. The fourth thing I do is I pray and I ask God to send someone into their lives that's going to mess with them.

>> Mhm. >> God, make them uncomfortable

>> or that they have a change of heart. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And Elijah too, I think part of growing up, which is so funny saying this next to my dad, this you are not this at all.

This has nothing to do with you at all with >> major [laughter] disclaimer. >> No, but really I'm like it is and you know as you become an adult, it is weird when you look at your parents, you're like, "Oh, wow. I I feel like whether emotionally, spiritually, financially, business, like whatever the thing is when you start to surpass them in wisdom in an area and you with money with your with your parents in this way, right? I mean, honestly, it is a weird thing.

It's just like one of those parts of growing up um that you have to learn like you can't control them like and and I think we all have this thing in us and we have people in our lives that are doing something that you're like, "Oh yeah, I you know, I wish they were doing something else." And and we have this belief of if I could just have this one conversation or I could phrase it in this one right particular way, they're suddenly gonna get it and the light bulb's gonna come on. Yep. >> And I think I've just learned like you can't you just don't have that control over people.

And I think we believe we do to a degree and we really don't.

>> I mean seriously I mean yeah >> that's very weird. >> I mean it's bizarre a little bit what you're saying. It's one thing if they had no, you know, no idea, but they know it. So, I don't know. There is just >> Seems like a lot of these stories have to do with buying campers and RVs, don't they? >> Yeah, they do. [laughter] >> They do. You're right. It's a little bit of a midlife crisis sitting in the driveway out there. I'm just saying. Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly.

I do wonder, how do you know that they have no retirement? Have they Have they said that to you guys? Yeah, we've we've had some candid conversations and they're pretty transparent about um their finances and you know they'll they'll ask they'll ask for financial advice. You know, they'll say like, "Well, what should I do?" And I'll be like, "S, you know, Roth IRA sign." >> It's just it's just this pain point, I think, for them is the RV.

And it's it really does come down to just like a heart for, you know, we want to raise our grandkids in this RV and we want to go on these trips in our retirement. But the thing is, I think they just bought it 20 years too early. [laughter] >> Could be. could be.

>> I think you nailed that one buddy. I think you nailed it that they're asking and you know all of it and yeah and I think if you come at it with some curiosity of like hey you know how are you guys feeling about it and truth be told they may be fine >> back on them and say okay you know if you want to have wealth in the future >> and a quality retirement to be able to enjoy with the grandkids. What do you think you should do? >> Yeah.

know, car payments that they're paying, you know, like, but it's hard for them to connect those dots, I think. >> No, they're just they're in denial.

>> That's all it is. They just don't want to connect the dots. They know. They know.

>> I think that's they taught you this stuff. I mean, you turned out, dude. You got all the answers. You you could do this show.

I mean, you you called up asking questions, but you already knew the answers. >> And uh Yeah. So, I I'm going to try to get some people to influence them, some situations to influence them, talk about your successes, and if they ask a question, I'm going to answer it uh with a good, strong question that is basically a statement. >> Mhm.

Yeah. >> What do you think you ought to do about the RV?

feeling and thinking and making them say it out loud. That could be a light bulb moment. I don't know. [clears throat] >> Little little mirror actually. >> But I kind of appreciate that. Yeah. that they're so open with you guys.

>> I think they're going to be okay. I think they're going to be okay. I think they're probably closer than you think they are to waking up.

>> Um, and part of the part of what makes me think that is is the way that they raised you >> to where you know the answers, which means I know they know the answers and they'll come back around to common sense. It'll it'll start to haunt them eventually. >> And um, >> but the but the fear he's having of them living with them is like that's not >> put that down. Yeah. Yeah. No, just tell him stay in the RV. [laughter] >> Just keep the RV.

>> It's a really old RV at that point.

[laughter] >> Cousin Eddie's here.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 255. You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `69Dy3uh-pDo` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Dy3uh-pDo) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:51:33 |

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George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, [music] this is the Ramsey Show.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody. How are you?

>> You know, Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you? I'm >> better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, guys, um I'm going to start off with a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize, but uh my wife and I have

just recently found out that her parents

are asking my wife's, uh sisters that

are under 18 for money for basic bills.

Um, we don't really know. You know, I've heard in the past you guys say like, "Don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance." Um, we're just kind of stuck because, um, you know, my sister-in-laws are 10, 12, and then 17. Um, so I'm just kind of

we're kind of confused on what to do.

>> How much money do they have?

>> Well, so my so the younger

sister-in-laws, they were, you know, working over the summer. Um, so basically what happened was is, you

know, uh, my sister, my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that, well, mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah blah. So, I offered him my $400 that I got from dogsitting and they took it for groceries. And then um our

or my 17-year-old sister-in-law came over two weeks ago and said that they

had quote unquote borrowed $1,000 from

her for for bills for last month to cover. >> Is this true? Are they struggling that bad?

>> I I I would I would say so. Yes. It's

been talked about. You know, a couple months ago, my wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. He my

father-in-law owns his own business, and it's been I know it's been struggling for quite a while. >> So, I I want to put things in order. I

have, you hear us say on the all the time, you can't help family unless they come ask you. >> But before that, I'm always going to protect kids.

>> Of course. And if you got a 10year-old that's coming to you saying, "Dad is saying, "I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money." Then I would I personally I would insert myself into that situation.

>> Okay. Okay. And that's what we were thinking because, you know, it's it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else except for themselves. Um, a lot of this is self-caused just based off their their career choices that they've had.

So, it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard for my wife to have respect as well. So, >> how long have you how long have you been worried?

>> Uh, it'll be two years in February.

Okay. Um, yeah, I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you, but >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um I I think she Yeah, cuz

here's the thing. If the two of you go over there at 2 years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

>> Of course. Yep.

>> It's not simply this situation. Um yes,

what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. Um, and if they were abusing the

children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services, >> right? Yeah, that's not happening. >> Be that simple. Um, because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially.

>> And um, so I I think um but I don't

think your wife your wife's what, 20some years old?

>> Yeah, she's uh she's 23.

>> Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, "Y'all need to stop this. Sh to become responsible adults. My guess is there's about a 0% chance that that's going to have any impact >> 110%. >> And if you show up saying I don't respect you guys, they're going to tell you to get out of their house. That's not going to help either. >> Yeah, that's a 40 year that's a 40-year long discussion.

>> Um I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about. >> What what Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. So, my thought is when I when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, "Can we talk?" Um, and she's got

to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10-year-old, right?

>> Yeah. >> Um, but we just heard, >> you know, and my Sorry, >> go ahead. And and my idea at first was

like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, "What if you like take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters. Like, how bad is it? >> Is it is it really is that really happening? Are y'all really that bad?" >> Yeah.

And is is there is there ways we can help or is there ways we can support you? Or is there education?

>> Exactly. Exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong >> Yeah. But but dude, you're 25. You're 24. I would stay out of that for right now. >> Yeah. That's not That's not >> Okay. >> That's actually not true either. It's a it's a bad it's a bad on-ramp to life,

but it's not an on-ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. >> Yeah. >> Um and then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay.

So, >> uh and those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. So, >> yeah. So, let me refer when I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeveless shirt and go bang on the door. I I think I think your wife

>> taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out, and saying, "Hey, we just happened to hear this.

>> H I'm worried about y'all. How how bad?" >> I'm worried about my sisters. >> Yeah. >> How bad is it? >> Definitely. >> And then y'all two have a hard conversation about could you help, will you help, and all that cuz the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500?

>> Um, and y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that. >> No, go ahead. I'll give you the answer to that. No, you're right. because they're saying they're $10,000 short a month. >> So, I'm not throwing good money after bad. >> So, I we only give Ramsay's only give

into situations where we create a sustainable story.

>> We don't throw money at something $5 at

something that's a $100 problem. That's not you're not creating a sustainable story. Then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it.

And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, "You have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house.

Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life your your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby. And so, no, we're going to have, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the 17-year-old or the $400 from the 10-year-old doesn't fix it, nor does $500 from you fix it.

But do say, "I'll I'll I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life.

I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons." >> And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. So, if she sits down and says, "Y'all need to start." That's not going to go well.

But that idea of sitting down and saying, "Hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it?

>> That's a different avenue. >> Yeah, we are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in get our our income in line with our outgo and it's given us great peace. And if I could ever help you get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that. That kind of thing.

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Dr. John Deloney [music] Ramsey personality is my co-host and is with us in New Orleans. Hi Anne, how are you?

>> Hello, I'm fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Our honor. How can we help?

>> Okay, my question is my husband and I, my ex-husband and I were a co-signer on my son's condo back in 2004.

>> [clears throat] >> And since that time he is un my son is

unable to pay his mortgage because he's

unemployed. He lost his job and >> 2004.

>> No, no, no. We he purchased the condo in 2004. >> This past April he lost his job

>> and s and he's been unable to pay the mortgage. >> How many times did you pay it since 2004?

>> Oh, it's happened before. about 10 years ago, he ran into trouble paying his uh

mortgage and he was able to do a forbearance and of course I assisted

financially at that time.

>> Mhm. >> And you keep using the word unable. Is he unable or is he unwilling?

>> Yeah. Why do you not have a job? >> One of my best friends in the world is a parapolgic. He is unable.

>> No. No. He's physically capable.

>> Okay. >> He has not and he has not found a job since April. He says he's looking >> one of the hottest you can't bond a job.

>> One of the hottest hiring markets in human history. He's chosen not to work.

>> I guess so. >> Okay. Let's use I just want to be I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions, right?

>> Yeah. [clears throat] Now, >> yes, understand. >> You're still on the mortgage.

>> Yes. We my ex-husband and I are co-signers, so we're responsible for paying the note if he does not.

>> Mhm. And he's not been paying it.

>> Yes. So, I have been paying it since April. My ex-husband made about three of

the mortgage payments. So, now I want to

know what would be the best avenue for

me to convince my son to sell it. Let it

go for foreclosure.

And I told him, or else you get a job and you pick up the payment. But I don't want it to go to foreclosure because I don't want it to affect my credit. I

have an my credit rating is 820.

>> Every time it's paid late, it affects your credit.

>> Yes, I understand.

So, I just don't know if there's any options for me. >> Is he on the note at all? >> Co-signer. >> Is he on the note? >> He's my my son is the owner of it.

>> Yeah, he's on the note. She's a cosigner. Yeah.

>> Yeah. You can't force him to sell it.

You can just talk him into selling it. Will he sell it if you tell him to?

>> No, he's dragging his feet about that.

He really doesn't. >> Well, he's dragging his feet because he knows you're going to pay for 20 years.

You bailed him out.

>> Yes, I understand that. >> And you've probably given him some stern talking to over the last 20 years and then >> Yes, I have. >> You still paid it. So, >> yeah, he's dragging his feet because you taught him how to. I think he had to sit down and say, "I'm not paying this rent." I Dave, I'll leave it to you. I mean, it's going to it's going to ruin your your >> Yeah, you're you're going to get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed.

>> Yeah, >> that's how this works.

>> So, >> can you afford to buy him out?

>> I could, but I I I just don't know what my best options are because if I buy if I if he would sell me the condo, then it's mine, right, for me to do what I want with it.

>> Exactly.

>> And then you can then you just sell it.

then he you sell it and >> right >> resell it and get your money back out and at least that way you didn't lose anything. Um but yeah, you can just say

all right let's get it appraised. I'm going to buy it from you and then you put it on the market and sell it. That's what's best for you.

That is unbelievably aggravating

and it's not necessarily what's best for him. What's best for him is to experience some pain.

Um, but but he's not going to in this scenario unless you do.

>> That's the problem with co-signing. You get to experience the pain with him.

>> And he's going to play chicken with you and you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially, right?

>> Yes, I do. >> Yeah. And what's the what's the condo worth?

>> Maybe about 40,000 >> worth >> 45. No, I would Well, in the He would be

he would be lucky if he could get 60 for it. Oh my god. What do you owe on it?

>> 30. >> Okay. >> And he's got 11 more years.

>> Okay. Go go go go tell him that um you

know he can no longer screw up your life

with his laziness. He needs to sell you this condo even if you buy it for whatever. H have a real estate agent give you an appraisal. Buy it for that amount. Put it back on the market and resell it. And he needs to move.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. that protects you. I'm for some reason I thought this was a $600,000 condo. >> It's a $60,000 and yeah, just you can you're you're you may lose a couple thousand bucks here or there by moving all this giration around, but you need to get out of this trap you put yourself in. And the trap is co-signing.

>> You can't get out of the trap. You're either going to be an enabler or you're not going to pay. And then he's going to get foreclosed on, which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you. And then they're going to come around looking for all of you wanting some money out of y'all because the condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it. But it's a piece of crap condo to start with.

>> Mhm. And >> I'm the one >> and >> I'm sorry. >> Will you forgive yourself for the divorce?

>> Finally. >> Yeah. Yes.

>> You're still trying to make that right with him? Stop. It's 20 years.

>> Yes. Yeah, >> you're going to lose you're you're going to lose some money, but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son. It's not worth it.

>> Yeah. I I I would I would buy it from him, have him move out, >> and turn around, put it right back on the market, and sell it. And if you lose a little bit that way, that gets you out of this trap. And then you have a standalone relationship with your son that's mother's son that is no longer co-signer because co-signer is putting a strain on everything.

It's making you do things you're not you don't feel good about. >> And it makes you resent your son. Every time that phone rings, you you feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask? Like it's it's altered your relationship.

>> What's he going to ask for now?

This time cuz you're aggravated with him like we are for being lazy, not working since April. My god. How much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks? [laughter] I mean, you can you can like do Uber one day a month and pull this off.

This is about the laziest human I've run into. Um, that's pretty rough. >> I mean, really. >> Yeah.

>> Think about it. It's just I mean, it's not like it's a lot of money. I don't even know how the boy's eating. Oh, yeah.

I do. And >> Yeah. Ann's take making sure he's got groceries. >> Yeah.

So, Ann, you got to stop it. It's time. You put him on the put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him from a distance. Uh, that doesn't include your checkbook for the rest of his life.

And that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself.

moms and dads out there, never

ever cosign.

>> It's not an act of love. It's not

>> it's it's the ultimate enabling and it locks you into enabling because out of

self-preservation, you have to cover the stupidity of the other party.

What about this Dave? I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong. Is there a a moment when, and again, I know I'm speaking in ratios here, but $50,000 against what Ann has is not a lot of money. Can she

buy this thing and hand it over to him and walk indust?

Is that too much enabling?

>> I wouldn't do that. No. >> Yeah. >> No, I think I think it's >> I think he's not going to move is what I He's not going to sell it >> to his mom. >> Yeah.

>> Well, then I would just take the pain of being foreclosed on. >> You would? >> I just stop. >> Okay. You're either going to sell it to me or uh the days of me giving you money

are done. >> They're over that. And that's what I'm getting at. >> Either you're either either you're going to sell this to me or you're going to have to figure it out. >> Okay. >> I'm done. >> Okay. >> Because that's this is so bad for him.

>> Yeah. >> She stunted his emotional growth.

>> I mean, he's six years freaking old.

>> Yeah. >> He can't can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30,000 bucks. This is

lame. >> Yeah. >> This is really a lame boy. Especially when we talk to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever they got to do.

>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Tough, man. >> Could sell enough clothing out of his closet assignment sale.

>> Could plasma your way to that one. >> It's just it's just not any money. So, um Yeah, honey. You got to you got to get him free of you and you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man >> and it's going to cost you that precious 820 that you really you're really proud of. It's going to cost you gives a crap about that. >> Let that stupid thing go. >> Yeah. Oh my gosh.

>> That condo's never been late. She paid it on time every time. >> Every time. >> It's never been late. It wouldn't be 8:20. This is the Ramsy show.

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>> [music] >> Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Judy is in Los Angeles. Hi Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. Um I am a longtime listener and uh

first time caller. >> Okay. I'm on baby step six >> and I listen to your show all the time and you recommend never to cosign for someone. Correct. But I h I'm in a situation when I do want to cosign for somebody under a certain circumstance.

>> So my my h my husband's cousin, first

cousin, she's been on section 8 anyway.

She lost that. Now she's in her 60s. She

needs to get an apartment. there's a special needs trust that her parents

have set up for her and in order for her

to get into an apartment um she needs to have someone co-sign where her brother who is the trustee refused to do so and I was wondering

>> warning warning why would her brother >> who loves her more than you do >> he's her brother for God's sakes not want to cosign >> he he's he doesn't love her >> oh He actually doesn't mind if she goes home. Yes. No, that's true.

>> And it's totally true. It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing.

His wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to.

>> There's more to this story than you are telling or believing.

>> Well, she's u she has a problem. She has personality disorder.

>> That's why that's right. Okay. She's she's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. She always section 8.

>> She lost that. >> Who who is the who is the custodian of this of the special needs trust?

>> Her brother >> her brother. >> So would will you have access to the funds for this apartment or does she have access to the funds?

>> Right. So what I'm going to ask if it's okay if that works if you agree that's the you know right thing for me to do. I can try to ask a brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me and then I

will transfer that to her monthly.

>> Mhm. >> Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to cosign? >> I wouldn't. What if she trashes the place?

>> She Well, she won't trash the place, but she might, you know, um No, she's not

like that, but she will she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the only That's the kind of problem she has. or gets kicked out or there's four has four people over or >> gets sweet talked >> people over, she'll just like she loves cats. She'll probably, you know, >> take care of >> break all the rules.

>> Rules don't apply to her. >> That type of thing. >> Rules don't apply to her. >> Yeah. And Judy, we're going to tell you no. If if this money's available, then she can get the apartment under her name. You can write the checks every month for her. If she can't do that, that's fine.

>> But you don't need a coach. But I feel >> But how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available?

>> Well, you would have to have the money available. >> Yeah. Print off a statement. Yeah. And >> can I show Do I show them? What What do I do? Because we're in California.

There's a lot of these places and I don't live at the same town as she does.

So, it's not easy for me to like take her somewhere and talk to someone, you know? >> Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say, "This is what's going on. She has a special needs trust. brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, "Uh, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months." That's fine, too. >> Oh, just prepay. >> Yeah, but you don't cosign.

>> And they're going to try to get you to cosign >> because you have a blind spot here, kiddo.

this this lady is uh she's gotten a hold of your heart and she's sweet and she does need someone to help her. But we need to define help very carefully. Help

involves her behaving. And you're not

willing to make that requirement, nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior.

>> Right? >> You're going to get screwed if you do this. Please don't do it.

>> Okay? >> It's going to go up in flames.

Okay. So, I told the apartment that I have money, but I need to show some proof, right, to the trust.

>> Yeah. The the the brother's going to have to send documentation. >> Yeah. And by the way, you don't have this money, Judy. You still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street, >> right? So, all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality.

>> And let me help you with this, okay?

It's not that he doesn't love her. It's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him and he's done being burned. So, he's putting up a boundary.

That's different than not loving. And you got you're calling it not love and a dysfunctional family. I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him.

>> I'm not going to let you do it. >> Yeah. I don't even know him. And I'm not going to let He's not the jerk in this story.

Okay. And there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness. And you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents.

>> Yeah. Don't sign. Just I I don't know an apartment complex that won't take your check if if you got it. So if they won't take your money, so she can get her own place.

>> Hey, listen. I'm a landlord. If I know what's going on here, I'm not putting her in there. >> That's fair.

That's fair. Because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem. It's the 93 cats that end up in my building, >> right? Or all the neighbors or whatever.

>> Or she burns the neighbor's cat alive in the front yard. I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her.

No, I don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances. Co-signer, prepaid, double paid. No. Thank you.

>> Life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord. >> So, that's what you're going to that's what you're going to face, hun, more than anything else. So, you're Please, honey, don't don't confuse this. and you you're trying to do a nice good noble thing in a really um naive and unwise

way. That was that was kind.

>> Yeah, that that's the best way to say it. And I I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave. When you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off.

You could have already sat down with your brother. You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago, you either don't need to do be a cosigner or

nobody's going to let her to live there. You're going to have to come up with another option, right? But there's always like, well, then I might do this and then after that I'm going to do you don't even know if all this is is is going to happen and you're so spun up about it. Just go find out. Find out.

[clears throat] >> I cosigned for stuff when I was young and foolish and I ended up paying it.

One poor guy cosigned for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me. Yeah. 35 years later. So, it's okay. It's valid. I mean, I She got screwed. They didn't [clears throat] ultimately get, but I mean, she thought she did. And so, I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17:18

says in the scripture, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another." >> When I co-signed, Judy, I was lacking in

sense.

If you cosign this, the Bible says you're lacking in sense. I didn't say it. Get mad at God. Don't do it. That

wasn't That was That was pretty good.

>> I mean, you you kind of brought the Bible out. So, there you go. >> There we go. Brought the Bible out. Yeah, that that's the final right there. >> That's the final one. >> That's the one. Open phones at8255225.

Kim is in New York. Hi, Kim. How are you? >> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I wanted to know how to save uh money for a mortgage down payment while you're paying rent. >> Very hard.

It is. >> Yeah. Um, >> are you How much debt have you got?

>> Um, I can go through the numbers and I can tell you. >> No, just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total.

>> Uh, I want to say about 40,000.

>> How much of that your car?

>> Well, to me and my husband together, it's about uh he owes I owe 16 and he owes about 20.

>> Okay. How much is the car?

My car total with the insurance just

insurance or just the car? >> No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car?

>> About 16. >> Okay. All right. Of your 40 or of your Yeah. of your 40. So, half of it's your car. Okay. >> So, here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer.

>> Is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. >> So, before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out.

It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Cuz if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have

money to save for your down payment.

That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealthb buildinging tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else and then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple, but hard. This is

the Ramsey [music] Show.

>> [music]

[music]

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Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888255225.

Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick.

How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. >> Good. How can I help? >> Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my

MVP off the ground, right? Um, and I've

I've had a a friend of mine and and

offer to give me a loan to do this, but I've been listening since to you since I was 12 years old. Um, lost everything last year in a divorce, literally everything. Um, and I'm wanting to go

back up, but I don't want to give up my entire my entire percentage of my

company in getting with a traditional investor and I really don't have access to traditional investors. So, I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowdfund with a patent pending also. So, I'm just kind of curious what you might have on

that. >> Okay. Um, so remind me again the what

the patent is on.

>> Okay. It's on a mobile application.

>> A mobile application.

>> Like a phone application. >> A phone app. >> Like a an app for your phone.

>> And why do you have to have a patent for a phone app?

Well, it's just it's just something new that is uh well, I mean, it's a

>> I mean, you're going to put it in the Apple Store and you're going to put it in the Google Play Store >> and people are going to download it onto their phone, right?

>> Right. But it's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. I mean, I literally >> You don't need a patent for that. Is it a copyright? You don't need a patent for that. >> No. No. He told me I couldn't copyright, but basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make a they couldn't make another um

you know uh because there there you can I've patent I've started the process to patent a process in the app just like >> okay so stop okay so how much are you

spending to get the patent pending

>> so that's already I've already paid that >> okay so you're done okay so you've got so why why do you need money to launch something in the Apple store it doesn't cost anything Well, well, the in order

to get the in order to get the um the

actual application built, the MVP, the minimum viable product, and and to build that. >> Oh, you've not built the app yet.

>> No, I just patent pending the idea or

the technology.

>> No, the technology is not done within.

>> It's not. >> Okay. Are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer. >> I'm not. No. No, I I' I've been a mom

since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. Um I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've I've But I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over.

>> Okay. So, all you need is the engineering done,

>> right? >> You need you need a software engineer, right? >> Mhm. >> So, what's it going to cost to to to turn this idea into an app?

Uh the the lowest quote I've got is around 24 thou 24 to to $35,000.

>> Okay.

You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I've put them up, taken them down.

I've uh we've got a little thing called the Every Dollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got, you know, tens of millions of people in it and all that. Um, but even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So, um, I'm just trying to think, uh, how we would do it because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that. You said you've been listening. >> I don't I don't I don't want to give up.

I don't want >> I wouldn't do it. I, you know, I would, you know, I mean, he even told me he would give it to me at 5%, but I don't want to take a loan and take money from your No. What partner? No. You You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of this. What's what's your what's your panic?

Like what's the you feel panicked? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn 30,000 bucks?

>> Well, the the thing is is yes, I I have probably 8 to nine months left of the of the status. See, my lawyer, he wants to do he wants to do a non-provisional, which is potentially give me 20 years protected, right? Um my uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but like he that's how he made his money. He had invented like one of the largest crash compactors in the United States.

And I've run by the seat of my pants in this. I >> What do you What do you Yeah, I know. I can tell.

Yeah, I'm I'm a truck driver, so I've always I go and got my CDL and I've I've bought and sold three different semi-truckss, but I lost I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying $3,000 a month in child support, and it just ate me alive. Um, and I I did have $15,000 in

debt in that, but I >> Okay, let me stop you. All right, here here's there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of

desperation. like you you sound so desperate. >> You called it an application when you're talking to us >> and it's not it's >> like an app. >> It's a phone app.

For God's sakes, this is not rocket search >> and so and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate. And all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid cuz every time I get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit, that's about the time I'm about to do something dumb. >> And I I can hear it on you. I'm just being honest with you.

All right. So, what I would tell you to do, what I would tell you to do is this.

>> Take a breath.

Okay? That's what I'm going to tell you to do. And then, if you want to proceed

with this, the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer

and tell them you will pay them double

their rate out of the proceeds.

And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, that, you know, it's $24,000

worth of stuff, I'm gonna pay you $48,000, the first $48,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out and I'm going to pay you double and then they're done.

And the problem is, as soon as you get the thing up, and here here's what I'll teach you about apps. They're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it. >> [sighs] >> 100% of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated.

The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better. So you're c you're not frozen. When I print a book, it's either good or bad.

I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book. when I put put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along and I will.

And so every the Every Dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name Every Dollar originally. It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years.

software engineering costs have just begun, my friend. If this is actually going to work and be successful, your

patent stuff is probably early and

tremendous overkill.

Um, you know, the number of times that people steal something on in an Apple store is just not that big. It doesn't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff, right? And and duplicating it.

But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in, scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented. Um, so you

know, it's, you know, I don't I'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are are patented, just to give you an idea. And of course, here's the other thing. Soon as you patent it, you're going to iterate it and change it. So then you got to update the dad gum P. Yeah, this is not I don't know. I I So yeah, I do know I would

slow down, breathe. If you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them two 2.0, know what they're worth, but they only get paid out of the proceeds. And if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing. If it never works, they put in their money for nothing.

If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like John said and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared.

Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey show.

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>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one bestselling author personality. You're the number one person. That's it. >> I'll take it. >> Yeah, you're all of that. and uh number one show on the Ramsey networks. Not really, but a big show on the Ramsey networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at8255225.

Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us Thomas. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Hey John. What's going on? I'm calling today because uh I'm 18 years active duty uh military.

>> Thank you. >> Um unfortunately Thank you. Uh unfortunately a couple years ago life happened um and I landed up getting divorced. Um with that before we got

divorced my ex-wife and I we were completely debtree and uh I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments. >> Holy. >> Um 40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds.

>> Wow.

>> Um but now that I'm divorced, uh I've been divorced now for two years. Um, I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt. >> What in the world? What did you buy in two years?

>> Uh, so I bought a vehicle uh your baby steps. >> What kind of truck is it? >> Um, it's a Ford Raptor. [laughter]

>> Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas.

>> It's definitely part of it. Uh, >> no. It's the whole thing. >> It's all of it. Taylor Swift.

>> Get your divorce raptor truck. We know what it is, right? >> It's called I'm the problem. It's me.

>> So, my uh I'm calling because I can pay this debt off pretty quickly. What do you make? About $78,000 a year.

>> You make 78 a year.

>> And you owe what? On the Raptor?

>> I owe 57.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I owe 37 on the Raptor and 18,000 in uh credit card debt that I

used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Um, I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP.

>> Um, you can't afford to do that if you're broke.

>> Um, so I was thinking, so my my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. Uh, I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. Um,

however, in the divorce, uh, my ex-wife

decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the tsp. Um, I've still been

contributing because in my head, I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite just not contribute because I don't want her to get Wait, >> when does she get half? Now.

>> Uh, uh, 67.

What? Oh, no. Wait a minute. That's That's not possible.

>> Is this divorce isn't final, is it?

>> Um, it is. Yes, sir. So, when we went to court, there was I had several different uh options that I could do. Um, >> and you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67.

>> Yes. >> Not h not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there at H. That's not right. Something's wrong.

>> That's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff. They said that was the better of the deal.

>> Apparently, these lawyers didn't take math class.

That's a horrible deal. Um, all right.

So, you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces.

>> I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her. Now,

that is a normal process in a divorce.

And she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes.

It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67.

Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP.

>> Yeah, that would be normal.

>> But half the TSP today, not at 67.

>> Well, now what the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the

PSP.

>> Okay. Now or at 67?

>> At 67 when it matures.

>> Okay. Then it should be half. What? half

like you're half of your TS. How much is in your TSP today?

>> Uh 166.

>> Okay. So half would be 80 84 thou

83,000. Okay. Right.

>> Yes. >> Today. So whatever 83,000 grows to

at age 67, she should get. But she

shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then.

Right. So, that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing alto together. >> You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you get half at 67.

That's just very weird, dude. Like, like

these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent. Weird. Okay. But if you did

do that, you need to go back and clarify. Is it what half of it today

becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just

half of whatever's in there? Cuz if it's

half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it. You're done with that.

You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff.

But you the TSP is off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next you know how many how old are you?

>> Uh I'm 36. >> Yeah. Good God. For 30 years you're going to contribute to her. No thank you. You did the worst deal ever.

So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man.

I'm telling you that I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him. >> This is horrible.

But you did the deal. I guess it's final. >> So you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half what 83,000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there. >> It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the 83 out.

>> They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did.

>> So >> yeah, John is correct. It is whatever is in there later cuz I tried to fight and get the half now, but then there were like, >> okay, then then here's what here's what it is. She gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else cuz you're not going to add anything else to it. You're stupid if you do.

>> Okay, >> but you are the one that signed this divorce decree [laughter] also. So, oh my god, this is a horrible man. It's just horrible. >> She has 30-year claim on future earnings for you. >> Jeez, man. >> Y'all have kids?

But we have two of them. >> I've heard I've heard a future. >> This is I want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is.

>> I've heard I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18.

Right. So if you were making 25 grand and suddenly you're making 150 grand. >> That's child support. >> That's not this.

>> That's child support. That's normal. >> That's that's what I'm saying. I've heard of that.

>> That's normal. But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it.

Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and you broke your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney.

So you've got to sell this truck, honey.

And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them, but this truck is brain damage. So it's killing you.

You cannot afford to drive this truck.

It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck. Get your budget back balanced. and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this TSP.

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Might not be in all states. All right.

Today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, "My in-laws are too much to deal with, specifically my mother-in-law."

Abigail, she knows you wrote this. She I don't know how mother-in-laws know. They just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man.

I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out.

>> You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. >> You have a husband problem.

>> He's a wuss. >> God almighty.

[snorts] >> [laughter] >> Man, that makes me so uncomfortable to

think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through our >> unsolicited >> go through our stuff >> without your permission. >> And even more uncomfortable is my wife said, "I need you this to not happen again." And I said, "I can't do it. I

can't do it. I'm scared of my mommy." >> Oh my gosh, Abigail, you have a husband problem. He needs to run down to Walmart

on aisle three and pick up a backbone.

>> Yeah. And some pampers while he's there because he might tit in his pants while he talks to mommy. Y'all need to have this. I mean, this is >> this is awful. >> Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

>> This is awful. >> Uh, mother-in-law is going to do what?

Here's the deal. I think if And maybe she's controlling. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

>> She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up. >> Yes. and she doesn't think you're loving him the say the right way, but she's not gonna say anything. She's just gonna keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old

and he needs to grow up real real quick.

Yeah.

So, um, if you say a thing, you start a

10-year feud.

You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to get have a backbone. And um this is out

of line. The boundaries are there's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous and it needs to stop yesterday. Um tell him

you want the locks changed and you want

him to talk call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first that you're a married couple and this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this.

Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. your key is not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short calm conversation and he needs to man up and

do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

>> Correct? And by the way, it's a husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, "Hey, >> my wife doesn't want you coming in the house anymore." >> You be a grown-up and you say, "I I messed up." Leave and cleave.

>> That's right. >> Leave your mother and father.

>> We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. >> Leave to your spouse.

>> Golly, dude. And mother-in-laws,

don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them unless unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked for your help.

Don't do that. >> Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission.

>> Yes. Oh, of course. But I mean, that's what you've been invited. show up with a key that you had before they were married.

So, one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you ever

heard this one? >> No. >> I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged. So for her engagement party,

all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville and the um the

announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so uh one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a

key. Went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, "Uh Sheree

is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her." and like 500 [laughter] guys got up and started bringing keys to her. It was so it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's that's much better than this one. [laughter]

>> This just makes me sad. >> Yeah, this is bad. Yeah. So, >> and can I tell you this one thing? So, one time um a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and uh it was a

a couple friend of me and my wife's and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some like just somebody passed away or something and I said, "Hey, let's get them a house cleaner

>> just to come in and clean up." And my wife looked at me and said, "Are you crazy?" Said, "What do you mean?" She

said, 'You know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house? >> Oh, it'd be like an insult. It >> insult. And so I got to say, mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex, >> right? It's a little bit of a flex. And so >> it's like cooking the lasagna.

>> It's like the recipe you got for lasagna. >> You're not taking care of my little my little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll I'll come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom. >> It's like It's like your underwear was folded wrong. That's Yes. I'm sorry, honey. I'll I'll do it for you. >> Yeah. >> And so [clears throat] grow up. >> Mother-in-law flex.

>> This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable. Dave, I never feel uncomfortable. This one does.

>> This is like It's got It's got a little stalkeresque. >> It does.

>> She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keeblers's elves [laughter] or something

and cooks and does laundry. No, cuz this

is the kind of mother-in-law leaves a note that says, "Hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed. [laughter] >> Y'all have a great night." And it's just like a little total flex.

>> But if you say anything, it's like, "Oh, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I I won't help anymore." >> Yeah. Right. >> Marty out the mart out. Mart out. She'll definitely m out. >> The old uh Oh, okay. Um there's some there's some

old Dairy Queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. Um, I'll just

eat the old Kleenexes. Um, and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when you'all get done, y'all just come out. It's that. >> Hey, I did run into a guy the other day that's opening a new food truck called Wherever You Want to Go. >> That's the >> That's when everybody asks where they want to eat. It's wherever you want to go. >> Wherever you want to go. >> Okay, we're heading. We'll go >> right there. [laughter] There used to be a great little honky tonk in Leick, Texas called the library.

We'd be like, "Where you going?" We're going to the library. All right. Good.

The honky tonk. Going to the library.

>> Love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. Uh, and I will

admit um that the hardest stage of

parenting for me has been uh parenting

children who are no longer in my control. [laughter] It is the hardest stage to stay out of

other people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And um so that does not

matter. Uh, and I I I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice. It it requires a

little bit of discipline. >> Yeah. >> Um, even even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals.

He's a freshman. And

I I know the science of studying. I know the pedigogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career.

And he's got to go through this first round of finals studying the way his he

rolls his eyes says, "Dad, I know." Okay. And right and it's hard because I want to go in there and say, "This is the way he's got to learn this time." And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, "All right.

>> All right. I need some help." >> Yeah. Show me how to do this. >> Right. And it's hard. It's hard when your when the your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded. Right.

mother-in-law. It's Abigail's husband now. >> Abigail, >> back up. >> Back up. Abigail, >> be cool. [music] Be cool, man. >> She has to stick her nose into everything.

>> It's the move stuff while we weren't home. Ah, >> that one's weird. Yeah, the came back.

The furniture's rearranged.

>> It's kind of like misery. >> Yeah, that's what I think. It's got a stalker-esque thing to it.

>> The penguin always faces Nora.

[laughter]

This is the Ramsy Show.

[music]

[music]

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[music] Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, [music] your host. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number is88255225.

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I said, "Hey man, listen to this." And I sent it to another friend of mine just like that and uh Tucker's got a great podcast that's going big. It's going Zoom Zoom right now. And so on. So I listened to one of Joe Rogan that was going Zoom Zoom is really good.

I sent it, you know, just share it. Just do, you know, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out.

>> fabulous if you don't know Jack he's he was a former SEAL and so these are all Navy Seal books and they're like you know shoot them up spy movie type stuff and they're great books fiction obviously and uh yeah but so it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I I I maybe want to do that with my next book. >> I think that would be fantastic.

>> Has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which his does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right. Uh Kathy's in Philadelphia.

Hi, Kathy.

>> Hello. Um [clears throat] I'm calling today with a question I can hope uh or I hope you guys can help me with. Uh my husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to

offset our utility bill >> and I was um I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at.

>> Okay. >> Currently. >> Okay. >> Um so Hubs and I are like between baby

steps five and six. I guess like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that.

Like specifically this is child A, this is child B, there's their college fund.

>> Mhm. >> Um they're pretty young yet. Um three

and five. Uh we feel like we've got some time to >> So you would pay cash for the solar.

>> That's what we want to do. How much is it um for the solar?

>> Uh the unit's about 53,000.

>> Okay. And what is the um what's the break even on it?

Uh they say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years we'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and FC and those things.

>> Okay, that's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven-year break even.

And um most of the time that you see that you're going to get that it's going to be in a area of the country that is

um a lot of sun. [laughter]

>> So I mean like you know Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing. You're you know that kind of thing. You're not going to it's a little different than Philly and not Seattle. You know that kind of stuff. So you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency

as far as what's the break even meaning what do you pay for it? How does how quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy?

Thus, how fast it saves you money. I've watched the technology on that. Uh it's probably five or 10 times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long long way. It used to just be total crap and now it's like I actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on, you know, and I'm fine to do that as long I don't endorse financing it obviously. Um but

um but generally I tell folks a five to a seven. Uh your eight is borderline.

What I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off that would still get you that would get you down to the 40,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or a sevenyear break even. Maybe they got you um you know with a convertible and power windows. I don't know. Right.

>> Right. Right. Absolutely. >> You know, check that out, learn about that.

That's what I would do if I were in this situation. But uh >> I'd run one more company, too.

>> That's a good idea. >> Well, we ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75,000 down to 52,000,000 by pitting them against each other. So, we feel like kind of >> that's about where I mean, I could bring in a third company, but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down 25,000 almost >> a good start. That's a good start. See, they got some margin in that crap, huh?

That's cool. Okay. So, I knew they were making bank, but um uh yeah, I'm a fan

of the technology. I'm not a fan of the

You're not doing this, but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go, "Look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill." No, that's dumb butt stuff cuz the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess. You got an a lean on your property. You got all kinds of mess. No, do not finance them ever. Do not finance anything ever. You're listening to Dave Freaking Ramsay. Okay. So, but the uh

but you're not doing that. But the that's for everybody else. The the technology has come a long long way. I

will tell you this, Kathy. I think it's going to go a long way further.

So, like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's

attached to your house is crap.

>> Okay. Okay. >> It'd be like you had a 7-year-old computer or a 7-year-old cell phone. You know how

much further it's come along. That's the rate. That's the pace of change in the technology. And so, don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house.

It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just, you know, what is a seven-year-old computer? A doors stop. You know, that's what it is.

you know, it's like what? It has to boot up, you know. It's like, you know, >> where's the DOS? >> What is this?

What is this strange speech ball thing? You know, it's like, you know.

I want to pull the music off of it because my my I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. Um but I said, I want you to fill it with old country songs." >> And this he looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds.

She's antiques. >> What is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. >> Fresh dog. >> Yeah, I probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave, but >> our radio show. You're >> radio show. There we go. >> Thank you. >> But yeah, it it was uh it was strange, but hey, he took it back and figured it out, man. >> Yeah, there you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in

Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you?

>> Good. How about yourself, Dave and John?

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I uh my wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have uh owned seven properties. Uh one of them is my

primary residence and then six investments. The three of the investment properties are paid off and uh we we've

been discussing about maybe selling two properties and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them. >> You'd be 100% debtree >> including my primary. Yes, sir.

I would do that >> right now today.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Today. Okay. >> I I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex, but I like being debtree more.

>> I agree. And we were trying to hold on to it, not sell properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future. But, uh, >> you'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments.

>> I see. >> Yeah.

Homeowners is for owner occupied only.

But fire see I you know you got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. Gh super expensive. You're right. Just run an analysis on it and go how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by a hurricane? What would you do?

I wish you had insurance. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. That's what I'm That's I run a worst case scenario through my emotional uh filters [music] and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host [music] today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at8255225.

[music] Corey is with us in Washington DC. Hi

Corey, how are you?

>> Hi. I'm well, thanks. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living um I

went through a divorce which was a really terrible relationship and jumped into my um mother's home um for the time

being which has been way too long now.

Um and I have in the process I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan which I've since paid off. Um I've not >> You paid off all the credit card debt and all the all the and the car both?

>> Yes, all that. >> Way to go. How long have you been there?

I have been here for six years.

>> Oh. >> So, I've paid that off and I've saved I I and I went back to school um all in

that time and got a decent job and now make three times the amount that I was making when I started my job.

>> Now I make 118. >> Why are you still there?

>> Um because this market here, I started

looking um in 2020 for homes. Um, I'd

been outbid several times by like $40,000 at >> How old are you?

>> 45. >> Okay. Why have you not gone and just rented something?

>> So, >> you're debtree and you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something.

>> Yeah. The rentals around here for a three-bedroom, I have three kids and myself. For a threebedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So, at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money.

Um, my income has gone up each year pretty substantially. Um, so I keep

feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work and then the,

you know, the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up and of course the interest rates are up.

So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfort comfortably into. Um, so

now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home? >> No. Well, the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do.

>> Understood? >> And you probably won't be able to catch that that carrot.

And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high school living with their grandmother.

>> Yeah. And that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to to go to school. >> Yeah. But the the point is that you have you have painted yourself a a world where you have decided that you are

trapped by housing prices and rental prices.

>> Okay. >> And you're not >> with with um so I get paid bi-weekly

um and I get paid about $2,600. Again,

this my my income just went up in January. Um, I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and the year before. Um, so with that, what can

I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills. Um,

>> if I understood you right, you're debtree and you have how much saved?

>> About it's close to 60.

>> And you make $118,000 a year and you have three children. >> Mhm. >> Did I understand all of that right?

>> Yes. And you did all of that in six years coming out of a bro broken, toxic, horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you.

>> And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing. >> Well done.

>> Well done. >> You've really accomplished a lot here.

And um the the the thing I think I'm

hearing and I might be wrong, Corey, but

I think I'm hearing that um that

probably in the marriage and and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in were both nicer than the home that you can afford now and you're having trouble with that.

>> Um probably. Yeah, I've definitely

>> looked at lowering, you know, some of my living, you know, what I I'm used to.

But >> yeah, the home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home?

>> No. >> Okay. So, the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in?

>> No. >> And you're not damaged because of that?

>> Yeah. I I wouldn't I mean, this house is okay. It's not like fantastic or anything like that. >> Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. >> Okay, that's the point. Your childhood

home though, you might. And your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the u the the the real estate

channel on, you know, being redone by Chip and Joanna. Okay. So, um, I want

you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life. Whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute or it's not a stellar piece of property that's that lines up with all of your all of your wants, but but does cover your needs. Um, but but I

think you've set your um you're you're I

think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick. >> And I'm gonna pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it. >> I I think it's probably both and it's it's moved the carrot out and the housing market has gotten tough, especially in DC. >> I'm not saying it's not tough, but I'm saying the way she can enter the market making $120,000 a year with a $60,000 down payment is probably not I mean DC is super expensive.

you're going to be outside of DC. You're not you're not buying a place.

>> You're not buying a place in um >> LA or San Francisco. You know, that used

to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it. >> But not anymore, >> right? >> And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market

where uh your expectations burst on

based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you, but it may mean that you go somewhere else.

>> And I Dave, I this is like a a thing I

want to be emphatic about.

There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she has recognized yet is they have a mom >> who's a warrior >> who is in extraordinary. Yes.

>> The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't they didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It was it wasn't any of those things.

It was I had two parents that always scratched and clawed. And both of them had midlife career changes and I watched them flourish. And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids.

And it's not something you can buy. It's something you witness.

That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff's gravy. >> The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in

counseling because of that alone is zero. >> There's a lot of kids, I'm telling you right now, I just had this conversation this weekend um in Utah with the behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it and then they go to college or then they get married and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something >> because somebody said, "Oh, the access of the world does not run through the top of your little head." >> Who knew?

I've never had one say the right thing to do developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms and their own bathrooms and their own Whirlpool tub.

So, I have to make these single ones.

But if it was if I was the king for a day, >> you mean there's not a skylight? >> Everybody has to to share room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No.

>> Yes. Kids can share rooms. They can they're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that. So, >> um >> you've you've given them a gift, Cory.

They can change schools. It's It's okay.

It's okay. >> You've given them a gift by uh stepping out of a horrible situation and then

>> um standing kneede in that manure and flourishing. >> Yeah. It's amazing. >> And and using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. Um I I think your real estate is just I I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So, that's going to mean you either um that you change probably the neighborhoods you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting.

And um it may be a long commute, it may mean a complete move, it may mean a lot of other things. But uh and [music] that's not to say I think that Washington DC real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically [music] crazy. This is the Ramsay Show.

Heat.

[music] Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 88255225.

Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel.

How are you?

>> Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Uh, big fan of the show.

Uh, me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well, sorry. Sorry. We have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially

well, we'd like to get married, but I was just curious on what your thoughts were. >> Uh, the data is not in your favor.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually um doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income

and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who

are married. Not to mention this the statistics the the relationship not making it over time. Um how long have y'all been dating?

>> Uh four years. >> Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on?

Um, I would like to do it. Um, my parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for 6 months to a year prior.

Um, I would like to do it. It's just that I I'm also heeding their advices.

>> How old are you? >> My parents I'm 20 25 26 and a month.

>> Okay. So, if you if you already have your if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

Uh, I was just curious what your guys's opinions was. >> You already knew. >> Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, "Yeah, I already knew that." >> Right.

Um, we both think we're very like financially uh sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So, I'm just curious if that changes anything or No. >> No. How old were you when you got married? >> Me? Yeah. 24.

>> Okay. I was 22.

>> Yeah. I've been married 43 years.

>> I'm I'm 23 and a2. >> I I I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

>> I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. >> I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes. >> Yeah, [laughter] we disagree all the time.

>> Not really. >> And I'm usually right. That's That's even harder. >> Not really. Yeah. [laughter]

Let >> Let me tell you this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl? Yes, sir. >> Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, "As for me in my household."

>> Yeah. Your your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son. >> They can only advise you.

>> Right. Um, so my next question would be, >> and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do.

>> Yes, sir. Understood. So, we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for

uh engagement ring or rings.

>> Oh, in our area for like New York City

and Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. Uh we've traveled to a few cities. Um we we just we're other than

like we figure you guys recommend a quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions we graduated together with associates degrees.

>> Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. So, um, yes, one month

of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. Um, and yes, 1/4th of

your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation.

You're short on money, your house poor, when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So, if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years, and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you.

But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take-home, you got a bad formula.

It's not You're going to struggle with that one. >> Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents going to be free from now on. That they're going to be good.

>> Yeah. >> No, too soon. >> Yeah. [laughter] Plus, plus or minus the rats. Yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. Um, and I'm not talking about the rodents, but Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I I I don't know. It's um uh

No, Daniel. Um the math still has to

math even in New York.

And um so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associates degrees into

uh sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began, people

have done that until they can afford to do it. And so um you know and and New

York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo,

London, San Francisco, I mean these are this is the list, right? Paris, these are very

uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but it's just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in

London. That'll get your attention.

Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

>> Hey guys, uh thanks for taking my call.

Um my wife and I, we are almost done

with uh Baby Sub 2. Um I'm 49 years old.

Um, I was approached today um at work to

purchase a long-term care policy. It's a >> nursing home care. >> It says, >> yeah, >> yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term will pay you%. >> You don't need it. >> That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main >> The main deal is long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero.

>> Okay? >> So, we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure.

Just pay for the nursing home or pay for inhome care or whatever you're going to do. Okay? But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old and the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years, it's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically, the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so, Papa goes

in the nursing home, uses up all the money, and then dies, leaves mama broke.

That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40.

>> 49. >> 49. You don't need it till you're 60.

>> I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

>> That's where I was I was a little hesitant. And I have a I have a life insurance policy now, a term life that's done um I guess until I'm Yeah, it's at

75 it ends.

>> Um I also have insurance through uh through the military. Um >> Mhm. >> should I be purchasing any other type of >> well life insurance you need if uh about 10 to 12 times your income on you

>> to cover your family if you die. And

that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown. Hopefully, they'll be gone. And uh and so that's that's the game plan.

And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And you so you you you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

>> [music]

[music]

>> So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an

application.

So we decided that Ramsay should have an app that would do your budget and we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really

over the last uh decade or so the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called Every Dollar because every dollar has an assignment by you.

You assign every one of your dollars a place to go give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars and uh in

programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and um have

managed to integrate into it the whole

Ramsay plan, the Ramsay way. So, like

you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step or what do I do there, what do I do there? and and we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of Every Dollar. So, the

allnew Every Dollar, we just relaunched it the other day and it's a complete

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into the Every Dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the Baby Steps framework and the Ramsy way, so to speak. And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity.

Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine

how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The allnew Every Dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Jake. How are you? >> Good, guys. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So me and my wife were 24 um fresh out of college a few years ago. Uh so we decided to uh build a home, our forever

home. Um and the cost kind of got out of

control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. Um they actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. Uh there's a different story behind that, but they're very uh they've accumulated some wealth over the years. Um they've handed us over a lump sum of money um to help

us build this house um and whatever is left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Um me and my wife make about 130,000 a year um before

taxes um with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is and we we do have a um a good amount of savings from the past years of working about $120,000 in savings. Um >> I'm sorry. You have $120,000 in savings.

>> Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

>> They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. Um, and so they want to help every single one of their kids out. Um, I'm one of three brothers. >> Yeah, but you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

>> Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

>> So, what happened with the house? You got You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house? >> Uh, yeah. So, we're building. Um.

>> Oh, you're still building? >> Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. >> Oh, you just started building?

>> Yes. So, the deal was with them um was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I worked for them actually. Um, and they wanted,

this is what they wanted to do for us. And so we kindly accepted it. Um, and

any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, uh, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And, and so I guess my question is is me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking about kids right now. Um, do we

give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning? Um, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and and have fun in our early 20s? >> So, do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel?

>> That's in essence what this where this lands when I say it that way. Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me? >> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay. Yeah. No,

you you you like did grownup stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old.

pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? >> Very good. >> The shest ways and >> the shest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

>> Okay. >> And I know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, "No, it's no big deal. It's no big deal." Just take it from two older guys.

>> Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now. >> I think I heard a two-stage deal here.

like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more. Is that right? >> Yes. They loaned us the full amount of

whatever it cost for the house we're paying for it in cash >> um to build. So they're not taking a loan out from any they're they've been completely debtree since 2008.

>> I know. But you now owe them >> Yeah. >> a mortgage payment.

>> Okay. So that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class cuz we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money.

>> Oh my god. >> Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. >> Yeah. The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> That's going to be painful for your wife. >> Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

>> Understood. So, how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

>> Um, [snorts] probably going to be around 200 to 250,000.

>> Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you? >> Um, about 50% of the total cost to

build. So, about 200 to 250,000.

>> So, you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

>> Uh, yes.

>> Dang, Gina. Okay.

>> It's a lot of house, dude. It's [laughter] a lot of house. >> All right. Um, well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation.

Yes, you need to 100 do the take the 130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents, >> okay? >> Because I don't want this mortgage.

I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest.

Um, here here's here's what what I would say. I can see myself working really

hard so I can I can bulldoze a path for

my son and his new wife. I get that.

But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, "Dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your like I don't I don't want you to be my banker." I would be so

proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, "I'm taking this by I'm taking the reigns here." It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. Uh, I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad.

Because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It It just ends in somebody

wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to.

And it's like, well, after all we've It just It's just a recipe for disaster.

But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. >> It's a 100 $120,000 mortgage.

>> It's a tiny tiny tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y'all make. >> Um, >> if you don't go on trips. Yeah, if you don't go to Europe, and by the way, Europe, Dave, I trips are more fun when

I when I'm older now. I don't know why.

They just are. >> Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home.

Um, but and in essence, that's what this ends up being. So, I don't have to increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad >> by the amount that we spend on the trips. >> And so, it's like borrowing on the trip.

Borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously, that would be ludicrous. So, moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, um, uh, which was an F,

um, here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and, uh, part

of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed, great.

Never make your child, your grown child,

your slave.

You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were, but they're very real. And no one

is the exception. Even a nice master is

a [music] master.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsay

Solutions on the debtree stage. Dimma

and Rhonda are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. Where do you two live? >> We live in Durham, North Carolina.

>> Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville and good to have you guys.

How much debt have you two paid off?

>> Um, we've paid off $266,192.

Woo. [laughter]

>> How long did this take? >> Um, oh my god. >> Uh, four years and 8 months.

>> Golly. All right. And your range of income during that time? >> Uh, our starting salary was 138,000 and

our ending salary was 284,500.

>> Look at you two. Woo.

>> What do you all do? [laughter] What do you do for a living? >> Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation.

I work for a medical tech company. So, um I'm a compensation in the compensation role. >> Okay. >> I don't even know what that means. That must [laughter] pay really well. >> Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks >> for real.

>> Um I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor and >> you ain't [laughter] making $280,000, I tell you that. >> Not at all. I'm also a professor as well. >> Okay, there you go. [laughter] >> Very good. Good for you guys.

>> That's awesome, guys.

>> Way to go. So, what kind of debt was the 266? >> Yeah. So, it was a uh car loan, uh credit card loan, >> and Deeus grad school. >> Student loans. [laughter] >> I'm telling you right now. I know that. >> Absolutely. Student loans.

>> Yes. So, my um my um student loans were

150,000 and Rhonda's were 100,000.

>> About 100. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's um undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate. And >> Yeah. And so for me, I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution.

>> Yeah. >> And then I went on and got a masters after that. So, talk about like ping it on. >> Yeah. Ping it on. Okay. So, how long have you two been married?

>> Oh, this year c we're celebrating 10 years. >> So, halfway through, five years ago, >> yeah, >> something happened. What happened? What What set you off on this stuff?

>> He decided to go get that uh last degree. And we were already like, if you

want to think about it, we were like 800 and something in student loans, just me, with Dimma's student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017 and Dimma started school and we're like we cannot take on my loans daycare and then

when Dimma get like his student loans we were scared like what's that going to look like? >> Yeah. It just kept stacking up till it got scary. >> Yeah. It got really scary. >> Then what happened? What'd you do?

>> I mean we we're graduates of the Financial Peace Institute University. So I think we were just kind of taking it baby steps baby steps. But when we realize what we're going to be under with all the student we were just like we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional.

>> Time to get hardcore. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> All right. So, you lean in. Yeah.

>> And uh what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did?

>> Oh, we we started doing the monthly

monthly meetings talking about our finances. Um >> hard conversations. >> Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash and and if it wasn't on our our monthly, you know, things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it. Um, what would you say?

>> Who's the spender? [laughter] >> I see it, man. >> I was hoping you would ask, Dave, >> well, your shoes are shot from here.

Your [laughter] watch is blinding me.

>> Let me say this. He um for his birthday, he um was like, "Oh, let's go. Let's let's get this car. Let's let's test drive it." on his birthday, we ended up walking away with a car. So, I would say Dave, after we got intentional, that car we sold it >> and we were upside down. So, we're like, but we can't. And we made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars.

>> And that was really the testament that he was able to say, "Hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt." And sold the car.

>> Yeah. Being debtree was more more important. >> Absolutely. So, y'all made a incredible

combined salary together.

Both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y'all drive up and y'all ain't driving quarter million dollar cars. >> No, I you know we still own I have a 2010 Mazda. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Runs great. It runs great mysterious compensation jobs.

>> Yes, absolutely. You know, we're like, "Hey, we can't get rid of this." It's like, you know, we thinking about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do? >> Definitely humbling ourselves and um having faith in the process um was a struggle, but you know, I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient.

>> Absolutely. >> Cuz you know what, Dave, like we're all taught to like pay off debt, but then it's like what do you do after you pay off debt? And so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off >> four years. I mean that's a habit pattern right there, >> right?

Right. >> Four years of doing nothing. >> Yeah. Basically, [laughter] >> but you know what?

One of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say, "What are we going to do?" And I remember our birthday, we had $100 and so what are we going to do with that? >> We went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip. And it was like we packed sandwiches, we we everything was free and we're like, "Wow." And I'm like I'm still talking about that birthday. [laughter] >> So it it's like be humble and you'll be surprised.

I think even Dimma made me a birthday cake.

>> There you go. >> And Dimma can I tell you being a professor being a mental health practitioner >> yes >> I've always wondered um if you want to do this this scientific study um I'll put it on the air for you.

>> I always wondered if you're somebody in

the helping profession if you're a professor how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say?

>> Because you're not really supposed to say that. And I owe somebody money.

>> Yeah. >> And now the students that you're going to be teaching, >> they're going to get an unfiltered view cuz nobody nobody you don't you know [laughter] nobody's telling you what to do anymore. No knife over your head. >> And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these these clients of yours.

Here's the truth.

>> Cuz I don't know anybody anything, man.

I can I can speak from here now. Does that Does that make sense? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debtree just the the freedom if you will like like you mentioned Dr.

John like that freedom that you have um to kind of um you you have that discretionary income if you will. Um it's we're still working through the baby steps but you have more freedom and there's no there's no one um there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay. >> Awesome. Yeah, >> man.

I'm proud of you guys. >> Well done. We're proud of you. Excellent.

Way to go, heroes. >> Thank you. How does it feel?

mean Dr. Donnie said it. It it just to not owe anybody anything. Like we're

like what can we do now? It's it's really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers and like how do we give back? It's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're we're just like just ready and fired up about it. >> It's refreshing. Like our budget meetings are it's a different it's a [laughter] different vibe. >> Oh yeah. I can tell you smiling.

>> Yes. And we can't thank you to thank you too in the whole Damy uh Ramsay crew.

Yeah. Thank you all. >> Way to go y'all. We're proud of you.

>> This is one of the rare couples that they both married well. [laughter]

>> Y'all both did all right. >> Thank you. Me and we we won out in our marriages, [laughter] but y'all both did real well. That's awesome. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.

>> That's great. Very well done, you two.

Very well done. All right. It's Dimma and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina.

$266,000 paid off in four years and 8 months,

making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's

hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 We're

debtree.

>> Yeah. [screaming] Let's go.

>> I love [applause and cheering] it. Well done. Very well done.

Yeah, I guess um the the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically. But it's particularly I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this uh 266 breathing down your neck. So you can just kind of go, yeah, here's the truth.

>> Well, and and and you you sit at the table and this is what this is how we're going to teach this or this is how we're saying this or if you have this belief, you're stupid. And if you owe a whole bunch of money, you kind of got to put your head down and go to the next thing.

>> Got to bite your tongue. >> Um, and so now Deema's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man.

>> Way to go, heroes. This is the Ramsay Show.

[music]

[music] Heat. Heat.

[music]

[music] Our

scripture today, 2 Corinthians 1:4, he comforts us all in our troubles [music] so we can comfort others. When we when they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. Jordan Peterson says, "Face the demands of life voluntarily.

Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe." Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberly. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

[snorts] >> Well, I [clears throat] my husband and I have made a series of um really bad

financial mistakes and um we were just

wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year.

>> What kind of mistakes?

Well, we we're house poor. Um we bought

a duplex that um you know, we're it's

overwhelming. We have to where we pay about three grand a month and uh we only

make about 60 grand gross.

>> So, what why would you wait a year?

You're drowning.

>> I know we are. What is it you're waiting on? >> Um, well, I I I'm the main person uh who

does the budget and I was I was just I

for some reason it seems like we make we

we do somewhat make a little bit more money if by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong. Like I feel like it would be better if we can move.

>> I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not?

[snorts] >> Well, we we make 60 grow 60 grand gross

and then um we also get 2500 a month

from the other side. And so

[clears throat] it I don't know. I I know we probably should and we're we're >> Do you not like being a landlord, Amberly?

>> No. >> Okay. >> I don't. >> Oh, that's solid. Yeah. Be honest about the problem. This I can hear it says this thing's a brick around your neck.

>> Yeah. >> Your sanity is not worth it. >> It is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Stupid house.

>> Yeah, it is. And we found out that our

our tenant has been running the water um

24/7.

And so, sorry, I'm just It's a little

overwhelming being on the air. Sorry. Um It's >> okay. You're good. >> We've never lost a patient. You're okay.

Yeah. And um I I want to and we're in

we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but >> doesn't matter. >> I do want [clears throat] to get >> It doesn't matter. It's it's not fun.

>> No. >> Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun.

>> No. >> This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse.

>> Yeah. And Tik Tok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex, rent the other side, they'll pay your mortgage, and you're going to >> And now it's not fun. >> Now it's not fun. >> You found out Tik Tok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, I mean, should we put it on the

market like next month or I mean >> by Friday? Yeah. Friday. Friday. Friday sounds good.

>> Okay. >> I'm not kidding. >> Okay. >> I'm not kidding. If I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this,

>> even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake, I'm still going to admit the mistake. I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it. I want it I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done.

Otherwise, every time you drive up the driveway, you're going, I don't feel really good about me.

>> Yeah. >> And you can't be the wife you want to be. You can't be the mom you want to be. You can't be the employee you want to be. It affects every every square of your life. You're not you're not having fun. We can hear it. And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation, right?

>> Yeah. I >> mean, if you had a house payment you could afford, you could breathe again.

You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now.

>> Yeah.

It's overwhelming. I'm scared.

>> Yeah. I can We can hear it. And And it it's not being mean to you. I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. And um so the thing is that

that uh the faster you act on this, the

quicker you're going to get peace.

>> Yeah. >> And peace is really our goal here.

You got plenty of time to buy a different house. Plenty of time to make

different real estate decisions, sell this thing, and go rent an apartment or something for 6 months and breathe a little bit, and then slow down and make

a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate. You can do this. >> Okay? So, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on uh real estate ELPs for Ramsey

trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted, and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I like real estate, but I hate real estate.

Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me.

It's It leaves a mark. It's not fun.

Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's

up, Alejandro?

>> Oh, excuse me. Sorry, I just drank water. No trouble. >> Hello. Um, yes. My question is, is it

worth it to go to college? Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have u, you know, my brother, he's basically studying in US and he's been

going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors now. He's a, you know, straight

A student and everything. And um my my

worrisome is that his debt is five digits. So no. Yeah, it's five digits basically. So he's going from like let's say from 9,000 to 60,000 and like the

amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous, right?

>> And are we asking about you or him?

>> I was um this is more for for him than it is for myself. Well, he's already made his decision,

>> right? Right. But I what I wanted to know is that like from what I see in the

market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off as in like a story that he was telling me is that, oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree, but they're only offering like 70,000 instead of the

range that the college promised them.

And that's kind of like, you know, kind of >> what is what is his degree going to be in to continue the degree? >> Sports medicine. >> Okay. Right. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine?

>> 60 60,000.

>> Okay. And this is a four-year degree.

>> Um this is uh it's it's becoming eight.

He did four then he got he got his masters like >> Oh, so he's getting a PhD in sports medicine.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, that's not necessary, >> okay, in that field. So, the answer but but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college >> because yes, it's okay to go to college.

College is worth the expense if you pay

cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace. The problem was your brother overde it. He got two

more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space >> or at least one more that he could afford. And if he wants to move up, then he gets his master's degree. >> Do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space.

>> Yeah. Unless, oh, maybe if if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something, they may want you to have a doctor by your name. But who knows? I don't I don't even know the particulars of that.

But the college is going to give you a range. And when they give you a salary range, those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska, it's all over the place. And so >> don't blame the college. He's got to do his own research and say, "What does it pay in the area that I want to live?" And >> yeah, I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70,000 job.

I agree. I agree with you, Alejandra. That's not worth it. >> Absolutely not.

>> And uh you can get lots of $70,000 jobs for four-year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder. So, if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome. There's a gap right now in the marketplace and they get paid beautifully. But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect not a factual statement either.

Getting a degree in stupidity, left-handed puppetry, or German PA

history, and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous. And so that's

dumb. But you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad. That's just not true. >> No. The data s my my kids are going to go to college. >> Yeah. Mine too. Mine did. Yeah. There you go. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[music] Yeah.

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## 256. You Can’t Control the Past, But You CAN Control the Path Forward | November 18, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit [music] Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.88255225 8 825 5225 is the phone number. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. Tracy starts us off in Dallas, Texas. Tracy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, so I got my bachelor's degree

and my mom kind of handled all the

finances in the house growing up. So, I knew I had student loans eventually coming out of college, but she kind of handled all that. And I guess my question in that is, is it ever, I

guess, an okay choice to just choose to default on student loans when they just become very overwhelming?

>> Um, no. If you were 88 and on death's

door, I might say yes if you had no money. But you sound young and it seems like there's a lot of life ahead of you to try to make this happen. So tell us tell us what's h what has you feeling this hopeless?

Um, so when I graduated, um, and once I

kind of finally saw that number after a while, um, my student loans end up being

a little bit under $140,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, they had been my mom refinanced and

reconsolidated them, so it's a private student loan, too.

>> Good. though it um it uh it just feels

like it just feels like they're never

really going to get paid off. I paid it down to 106 at this point.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um but it just it's just very draining.

Like it just feels very overwhelming.

>> Um >> how long has it taken you to get it from 140 to 106?

>> So I graduated in 2016. Um so about that

long. Probably about almost 10 years now. >> Okay. What are you earning and what kind of work do you do?

>> Um, so I'm a teacher. Uh, I think I'm making around 62,000 a year right now.

>> Um, my husband's the same. And so

>> I guess just between our income and

other debts and having a new baby, everything >> Okay. >> just feels like all at once. >> It is a lot. But did So you're both making 62 a piece?

>> Yes. >> That's great. That's fabulous news. Um, and what other types of debt do you have? What other debt do you have?

>> So, we have my husband's car that we're still paying off. Um, we have his student loans, which they're not private and they're much less than mine.

>> How much? Um, >> tell me the amount of the car and his loans. >> I think he still has 19ish left on the car. um his student loans are around 30,000 and then we kind of have a house

and so that's also >> Tell me about the kind of house.

>> So we live in a tiny house on wheels.

>> Oh, tiny. I thought you said we kind of have a house. >> Yeah, I did. I did. But yeah, >> but it's just tiny. [laughter] >> Okay, got it. >> Not laughing at your house laughing at me not hearing well. Okay, >> cool. [snorts] >> No, that's okay. So we we did do that to cut costs which um which it did which is

good but that's um I think we still owe about 115 as well. Yeah. >> Okay. What's the mortgage on that?

>> Uh we pay about well on that because it's through an actual like bank lender.

So it is kind of a mortgage. Um so that a month is a thousand but then we also have uh land rent the land owner.

>> And where's the land? Uh 700 a month.

>> Oh gosh, that's a lot of money for a tiny house. I feel like that's almost a real mortgage. >> Yeah. >> Um okay, we'll talk about the tiny house later. Um can I'm looking at this and I

I feel like part of the issue is and I

don't know, but it sounds like you're going in the wrong order on the debt >> because you're starting with the it sounds like the the private loan is one big loan. Is that right?

>> Yes. >> So there's your first problem. Um >> we have found that there's there's generally two main ways that people tackle debt. One is they uh list them

smallest to largest like we suggest not not by interest rate, not by payment, just the the full debt itself, smallest to largest. And other ways are by

interest rate or whichever one you feel the worst about. All those other ways don't work. We find that people get tired like you have and they don't see it through till the end. So, the method that Ken and I are going to explain is the method that we have found and has been proven to work over time.

>> Okay. So, I'm just setting it up for you to know that this works. So, what you need to do is go through and list these all smallest. So, it sounds like probably the smallest debt is going to be one of your one of your husband's federal student loans, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then when we do that, we can free up that money quickly. You pay off a $3,000 debt, it frees up a little bit of money. you pay off another $6,000 debt, it frees up a little bit of money, right?

And then we can take all that and throw it at the next smallest debt. So that's how we gain momentum on this. Um >> Okay. >> And that's what I would suggest you to do. The $19,000 car, do you know what

it's worth?

>> I do not. It's probably It's still

probably somewhere around there. Somewhere in the 20s. It's a 2019 model.

So >> what's the payment on it?

>> I think it's somewhere around 400. I would love if you guys could get that $400 back in your budget. Do you guys happen to teach at the same school?

>> No. >> Okay. Do you are you in the same district?

>> No. This is very large.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a way that it could be feasible for you to become a onecar family for a short season. I want to jump in on something that you mentioned at the top of the call and we just kind of glossed right over it and that is that your mom, if I heard you correctly, your mom took out these loans in your name and you didn't know about it.

>> I I feel like I knew she was taking out loans, but I didn't know what that kind of total price was going to end up being. >> Okay.

um find out the number or find out I find out I had loans >> number the number >> um in 2020.

>> Okay. >> And you graduated in 16, right?

>> 16. So four years in you find out the full number. And is is mom uh helping

you out with this? Was that part of the agreement or was it just a parent plus?

Tell me a little bit more about this.

>> Um I'm not I'm not sure if it was parent plus. Um, I I know my parents didn't get

their bachelor's degree, so I know they really wanted me to get mine. Um, which is fine. >> Um, but

so I don't know what type of >> Okay. Are they helping out?

>> Was there ever any agreement? Tell me more about this. Something about this just doesn't feel right to me.

>> Yeah, they were helping out for a while.

Um, 2020 happened because that's I that's kind of when they stopped. That's when I got that's when I got the login.

like my mom sent me the login to to the

platform to log in and view it and kind of at that point it was kind of one of those like launch situations like this is yours now, >> right? >> Um you know >> and up until that point had she been making the payments or had they just been sitting acrewing >> late payments and whatnot? She she was she was um I guess kind of splitting them like she would take some money from

my paycheck and kind of lump it into whatever they were helping pay for at the time. >> Some money from your paycheck. How was she getting your paycheck?

>> Um I think my bank account I think was

still lumped into when I was like 16 and you could have like you know the parent kind of over >> Got you. But you have your own bank account now. >> Yeah. All right.

So Jade, wrap it up here. I wanted to dig into that, but tell >> uh I would love if you guys could look into selling this vehicle. Um it's not on fire, but if you can, that's $400 back in your pocket. You got to do the debt snowball, which is what I talked about.

Not only is it a budgeting app, budgeting app, but it's going to give you the next right step. Since we only had a few minutes with you, the budgeting app is going to take you the

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>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Let's go to Emily now in Los Angeles.

Emily, how can we help?

>> Yes, I was calling I think looking for some advice. Um, our family was in a major car accident and we have um quite

a bit of medical um needs and we own our

own business and my husband also works full-time outside of our business. Um, through our medical journey, I was put

on medical leave, meaning I'm not supposed to be working due to a brain injury. >> Um, that turned into like a a more

complications. So um we are losing my

income from the business and it's making it very difficult to operate the business. >> Um we've tried consolidating debt. Um we've paid off a chunk of debt. We um

are just trying to do everything that we we know either from baby steps or or just like rewriting budgets. But um it's

taking quite a long time um because we can't pursue settlement from our accident until our injuries are a little more um progressed where they can accurately say like this is >> this is Yep. And so um when did we have gotten to the >> we've been dealing with this um for over a year now. And um >> tell me about the um let me let me walk you through some numbers here so we can help. Uh, tell me tell me about the business, the one that you own, and then what role do you play?

So, two-part question there.

employee. Um, what's

uh we manufactured um organic um like

skincare, candles, things like that.

>> So, it's just it's just you and the and the hubs. You guys are the only two. And it's primarily you or is he putting in hours as well?

Uh it's prim it was primarily me. Um and

then we had family and friends that would help obviously right after the accident and things. Okay. Um we lost our storefront and that was um a major

uh revenue stream. It was our biggest revenue stream.

>> Give me an idea what your revenue was.

>> Uh for the whole business it was pushing 350K and growing at over 20% a year.

>> Good for you. And what were you paying yourself? It was >> um I was averaging 6 to 7K a month um

personally paying myself and then um we were working on actively paying off debts um on good months.

>> Well, that's what I want to ask. How much of that debt how much of that debt was on the business?

The business currently has um about 250k

in debt from from losing the storefront

and our we were wholesaling to over 1100

retailers across the world.

>> Wow. >> And we had to halt that as well.

>> You were you were you were really cooking with grease, weren't you?

>> Oh, we had some really big dreams um right before this accident happened and the accident took um >> Yeah. I'm so sorry. >> Took a lot of that away. So, it's okay.

I'm working through that, but >> I understand. So, we're I'm going to keep walking through some numbers with you so Jade and I can dive in. Okay. So, we have 250,000 in debt on the business.

Uh what personal debt do you guys have?

Um, we currently still have um 80 I

think it's 89,000 in debt and that includes um that includes personal loan

we took out to help consolidate all of our credit cards, student loans, um

tires. I mean, that's everything but our cars. >> And you still have debts on cars, too?

>> We do. Um my husband's truck, >> give us the numbers. >> 19K left on it. 19K on a truck. What else? >> Yep. And then my car has 52K. But the

problem with my car is it was in the accident and its value has the car was 6

weeks old when it was hit and it didn't total by like pennies basically. They

repaired it, but it's worth has dropped.

We tried to get out of it after the accident and the worth it was like worth less than 20K last Christmas. Bless you.

>> And we can't do anything about that while our settlement still plays out because that's part of the settlement.

So, we can't get >> Got it. Got it. Got to try to help you here. So, I'm trying to consolidate a lot of details here.

>> Uh, and so your husband's income is what?

>> Um, 90K.

>> Okay. And you have no income coming in at all. Correct.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Um, all right, Jade, what else do

we need to know here? We're trying to get a picture here of >> I do I will say I do have two more months saved for like I have money in the bank to like that was to pay myself to get us through um to the end of

January. So >> what do you have in the bank?

>> Um I've got 10k left to pay myself out

of. Um this month is taken care of. So it's 5k for December and 5k for January.

So, >> so are you unable are you unable to pay

uh for your four walls plus all this debt on just your husband's salary?

>> Correct. We did already downsize our house. Um we already moved and took care of a massive expense that way. Um

>> how much short are you? So, how much income are you guys short every month?

>> Well, uh 5600. Um

>> 5600. Help us get to that.

How how is it 56?

>> That's all our debt. My husband's income would cover our housing, living expenses, um the vehicles, >> the personal debt.

>> The personal debt. Yep. >> So, how much inventory?

>> You I got to believe you've got a bunch of inventory that needs to be sold off.

What's that one? What's the value of that? >> I do. I think I have over I think I have a good $100,000 in inventory that could be produced and sold or could be just sold. >> And so when you were selling, was it an online storefront or it was like brick and mortar?

>> It we were brick and mortar up until um just a few months ago. The brick and mortar was um over 220k in sales a year.

>> Got it. And you you sold that or you just lost the lease?

Um, we had to close the store because I couldn't I couldn't run it anymore and the debt had already piled on that it didn't make sense to hire someone.

>> Understand? But was it a lease or was it a place that you guys owned?

>> Nope. We did not a lease. We're out of the lease. >> My question is, is there a way that online you can start to sell off some of

this inventory so that you can >> We're trying.

>> What are you running into? What are you running into?

>> It's just slow. We were online was our slowest revenue stream in the past and it's just getting like um

>> okay >> our inerson >> let me ask a really let me ask a dumb question because it's really important >> this inventory and Jade rightfully so is locked in on this is your best chance to get some relief here while we're waiting on settlements and all the things >> if you were crushing it to the tune that I'm hearing and and I believe you in Los Angeles you had a loyal customer base is

My guess, true or false?

>> Yes. >> And and I'm guessing that they found out some form in some form or fashion what happened to you. Is that true or false?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I'm wondering here, Jade, come on

alongside of me. How do we reach out to that group of people and go, "Hey, hey y'all, this is my situation right now." >> Or, >> uh, you all believed in this product.

it would help us to move this product and because it's going towards getting out of this business until I get healthy because I got to believe you're coming back one day >> or even those last retailers that you were in their stores. Can we Is there a way I mean obviously you're continuing

to maintain the business is not an option but getting those last purchase orders so that we can sell off this LA cuz you said you were in a number of different retailers. How can we >> tap them? I send weekly emails to all of the retailers. We started doing promotions and even lowering prices on goods. Um doing online marketing, which

we've kind of stepped up the game that caused the retailers to not want to continue to purchase because I feel like those are two different issues. We've got the hey, we got an accident.

>> We had a Let me finish this.

>> Six month pause. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

>> I just want to get clear on this. It was it accident or was business already starting to dwindle is what I'm trying to understand. >> No. No, business is at the highest it was when we were in the accident. I had to close our wholesale portal for six months um immediately because of how bad like the injuries were.

>> So those those lines are dried up.

>> They a lot of them our most loyal storefronts have come back, but a lot of them it's it's they need goods and then they just move on to the next because they're filling their store. So, what what this is going to look like if your husband is well, um this has got to be his side hustle is figuring out how to

sell cuz this is $100,000 in your garage basically. How to sell this because that's going to break you free from this business debt. Um otherwise, you're going to continue to go into credit card debt floating the difference. We can't do that.

>> [music]

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All right, Lauren is up next in Minneapolis. Lauren, how can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Um, so back in July, my little brother backed into my car. >> Oh boy. >> Um, and my husband and I had to pay out of pocket. >> Um, not too much money. It was just our deductible, but um it's been, you know, about 6 months and he hasn't made any effort to pay anything. And so I would

just like some advice on what to do if he doesn't start paying soon. >> How old is he?

>> He's 22. >> Does he have a job?

>> Um no, but he has a good income, which is in We have an interesting financial situation. Um and he's got a great income. He just bought a new house. It was like pretty expensive and he just lives there by himself.

ilities.

>> Um, we get per cap. So, we get like

Native American per cap basically.

>> Got it. And what was your deductible that you paid?

>> 2,000 bucks. >> So, he owes you 2K. >> To me, that's not like a lot. Yeah.

>> So, what does he say when you go to him and you're like, you know, junior, I need this 2,000. What does he say?

Well, he's been kind of just like dodging it. When we when it first happened, we said something and I was just like, you know, you got to pay this >> and he was like, well, I'm not going to pay more than $2,000. He actually owes like $6,000 because of all the damage.

He owes me $2,000.

>> No, no, no. Help us understand that. If the damage was $6,000, why does he only owe you two? >> He backed into your car. >> The deductible. He owes me two. He owes the insurance company six.

>> Okay. And is he paying the insurance?

>> He would pay the six. No, he would pay the six to the insurance and they would give me two from that six deductible.

>> So, he doesn't owe you. He owes the insurance company.

>> Yeah. Technically, yeah. And then we would get the $2,000 from the insurance company once he pays it. >> Well, what are they doing? What are they doing to collect on this? >> Um, just trying to collect it. You know, they there's not like a lot that they can do. They just basically like keep reaching out. >> But insurance has to pay you regardless.

Like that's your insurance and you filed it. No.

>> Yeah. Apparently, we have to wait till he pays it.

>> I don't I don't none of this makes any This entire call makes no sense to me.

But let's stay on the insurance piece. I

when was the last time you talked to your the per somebody from your insurance company >> who got today and they told you we can't

do your payout until your brother pays his portion.

>> Yeah, basically they can't pay us anything because it's his job to pay

that. >> What type of policy is this?

>> Progressive.

>> Oh, now we're naming names. There we go.

Um, I don't understand what you hoped

for calling us on the brother not paying you. I mean, if I had a relationship with him, um, I would be making his life miserable. And at some point, your husband needs to probably roll up to the house and go, "Hey, punk, >> what's the problem? Your sister is my

wife, >> and you're not manning up, taking care of business while you sit here and play video games in your new house.

>> I mean, I I'm not talking about threatening physical violence, but I mean, it feels like this is pretty easily handled in a family situation.

>> I can't give you any advice on that.

>> Very easy to handle at all. >> What's that?

>> It hasn't been very easy to handle at all. I mean, we've asked him for it. He's not really making any efforts. There's not like anything that I can do to say like, "Hey, I need you to pay this." >> Did you file? We >> were just talking, my husband and I. >> Did you file through his insurance and not yours?

>> He doesn't have insurance.

He didn't have insurance when he backed into my car. >> Okay. So, he hits you and you call your insurance company up and go, "Hey, my bro backed into my car and they took over." Um, >> do you not have collision?

Um, I don't I think I do, but it's like

my deductible was too like I still have to pay a little bit out of pocket. It was a It was higher than I >> If you don't have collision, then that means your insurance has no coverage to pay for your car. And that would mean the only option is waiting for the other driver's insurance.

>> Did pay for some of it.

>> Ah, that might have been some of it.

>> It might have been based on the way the nature of how it happened. Um, >> okay. Do you have a relationship with your brother or is it a non-existent relationship?

>> Um, it's kind of I mean like I see him

sometimes. I was trying not to be like too pushy about it. So, you know, I still see him and stuff, but >> are your parents in the picture?

>> Best relationship.

>> Yeah.

>> I I I don't know how this is. I mentioned to my my mom today like, "Hey, you know, if he doesn't start paying, like we're kind of just not going to be like doing stuff with him. Like I'm not going to >> Yeah. I don't think that's a real big threat to this guy.

I I would get the parents involved. This is a family meeting at best. I I don't know how else you get the money out. >> Yeah.

No, that my mom was not She's not trying to step in like that at all.

>> It's going to break it up whether if he doesn't pay it. It's going to break it up. Let me explain the insurance part for you so that you can at least understand what's going on is one of four things is going on. You told me number one, if you tried to file through his insurance, you told me that's not the case because he doesn't have insurance.

Number two, I don't think you have full collision insurance because you they're not paying. And number three, my guess is if you do have collision, since you did not go through his insurance, it says that sometimes if you do have collision, but the person who hit you doesn't, they're waiting for that insurance to pay them. And so that's the that could possibly the be the problem there.

calling up my brother. I have an older brother and a younger brother. I'd be calling up my younger brother today and I'd be like, "You need to make this right." What type of person are you?

>> Like you >> I thought you were a person of integrity and character and I'd like to see that demonstrated. >> That's what I'd be saying as the older sister. And >> if he didn't, I would be sure to tell him. I'd be like, "Man, I'm really disappointed that this is the way you chose to handle this. You and I both know this is not right." >> Yeah. I've been sitting here, Lauren, >> thinking what?

>> Well, I've been thinking, "What would Dave say?" And I can imagine how that would go. >> And I'm not going to say that because I'm not Dave. And then I'm going, well, what what would I do, Jade?

>> Oh, I'd act a fool. >> So, Lauren, I'm g tell you what I would do. I would do two things. Uh, one,

first gear would be uh calling, texting,

showing up at his house once a day.

>> Oh, >> we're going to just be obnoxious. We're not violent. >> We're not threatening. >> Just getting on his nerves. >> We're obnoxious, you know, like with some justification.

>> And Gear two, if that doesn't work, cuz I don't think that's going to work right away. Although, you'd be surprised. You just keep showing up and the guy's like, he's like, "Oh, blowing up the line." [snorts] >> The second thing I might do is if that doesn't work, I'm finding a way to get in that house. >> Mhm.

>> And um or I'm knocking on the door one night. He opens the door and I walk in and I go, >> you're sitting in the shadow. >> No, no. I start walking around.

I want him to open the door and let me in. And I'm going to start walking around the house and I'm going to start pulling stuff into the living room >> and I want him to go, "What are you doing?" And I'm going, "I'm adding up $6,000 worth of your stuff." A >> and I'm going to sell it because here's the deal. You and I both know you owe me $6,000.

>> So this is so stupid.

>> Mhm. >> That I have no other choice.

>> Go in his closet. >> Yeah. >> And so if this doesn't work now, I'm going to sue you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I I I I'm sitting there going, realistically, what would I do? And I think it's the obnoxious treatment first. >> Yeah. And then I'm literally going to go in and go, I just found a toaster that's worth 150 bucks. It's pretty new. You like this? I'm selling that tonight.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm going to take $6,000 worth of stuff out of here tonight. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> If you call the cops, that's great >> cuz they need to come get you. >> Cuz I would love the cops to know that you're stealing $6,000.

>> I mean, I just think you got to be so difficult that he goes, "This isn't worth it." >> Yeah. >> I I I don't know. >> I don't mind this behavior. >> Lauren, what do you think of that? That's all I got. I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to meet you where you showed up today.

>> No, that's okay. I just I just wanted advice. And >> you got to you got to make it worth his while to pay you.

>> Mhm. >> In other words, he's going, "My life gets better the minute I stroke a $6,000 check." Which, by the way, he probably doesn't have. >> Yeah. I don't think he I truly don't think he has the money. >> I don't either. >> Um, >> but I bet you he's got some stuff in that new house. [laughter] >> Throw a yard sale in his driveway.

>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yes.

>> Oh gosh, what a mess.

>> I can't I cannot can imagine treating a

family member, my flesh and blood, somebody I love that way. >> I know. >> It's just >> I'm sorry that you're going through that. That that in and of itself is disappointing that a family member would do you dirty like that.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. If I had time and I was really cranky today, I would go on a rant about uh the pre Black Friday

deals. Oh, I would love to hear you go on a rant, King Coleman. >> We've jumped the shark as a culture.

Maybe later. I don't understand. Next.

It's going to be pre-Easter deal. >> Did you say we jumped the shark?

>> Yeah. You've never heard that phrase? No. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll explain that one to you. >> I need more. >> I I get a little irritated with And everybody's doing it now. Ramsay's doing it. We're all doing it. >> I know. We got to do it.

>> It takes away the cache of the >> I just think call it a really great deal. >> Yeah, >> cuz it ain't Black Friday. [laughter] >> It's not even Thanksgiving. It was just October. >> There we go, folks. That's a whole another show. [laughter] >> Oz99. Still a good price.

>> It's still a good deal. Ramseyolutions.com/store no matter when it is. Oz is on the line in Miami. Oz, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how are you? Happy Monday.

>> Happy Monday. >> Whatever day it is. >> Whatever day it is, it's right. Uh, so essentially, uh, my wife and I about two years ago, uh, we bought a rental property, uh, town home in Tampa, Florida, right? We reside in Miami, Florida. We're both born and raised here. Um, right now, every month, the

payment that the tenants are sending us is around $2,400, right? But the monthly mortgage that we pay is $2,800.

So, I just kind of wanted your advice on that just because the way that we were thinking of keeping the home, we're not we're in between, right? Whether selling it or we're keeping it just because of long-term equity in the future. But >> well, let me ask a quick question. How did we get okay with you having a $2,800

mortgage on it, but only charging 2400?

>> So, it was a brand new construction, right? And so, the first year you pay taxes on the land. Second year, you pay taxes on the, you know, the first full

year of the property being built, right?

So, then the taxes shot up from, I think it was around, they shot up about,

geez, like $4,800 around last year. This was last year. >> How come you didn't raise the rent? >> Yes. >> So, we have a realtor that we're working with over there, right? The realtor recommended because of the properties around in the community to lower the rent because the first year was essentially 2500.

>> So, then it it all kind of made sense at that point. We were doing out of pocket 50 bucks a month, right? Then the second year came around with the tenants and then the the realtor was saying to lower the rent just because all the properties around the rent went down. So then that's when the property taxes shot up to 5,200 bucks, 5,300 bucks.

Then that's when we went negative 400 something a month. >> All right.

We got into this house. Well, we moved over there cuz we like the place and then work called me back into the office in Miami and >> and that's it. That's the That's what I want to stop on. You did not buy this house as a rental property.

You did not say, you know what, let's get into the rental game. Let's get into the landlord business. Let's go pick the perfect property for us to do that. You didn't say that.

>> You defaulted to this >> because it was like, well, we're moving. I guess we'll just kind of keep it. Do you see why that's not a great plan for real estate? Correct.

Correct. Yeah.

>> So, if you sell it now, are you underwater or can you make money?

>> I will make about 15K on it.

>> I'd jump on it because I just read an article couple days ago. Tampa is one of the worst real estate markets in the country. Prices are dropping.

>> Yeah. Big time. It's seen, you know.

>> So, I would get out now. Do you agree with that, partner? I'd take the 15 and be happy. Indeed, >> because this is a headache gone and you walk away with no financial loss and you get to you know live and tell about it.

>> Yeah. The longer you wait that money could dwindle. So I would definitely >> Yeah. Yeah.

And we actually just uh you know the worst part of the timing is we just not the worst part but we just renewed the lease with the tenants. So we got you know 11 months to go like that. But >> okay, >> obviously, you know, >> with, you know, contingent upon the tenants moving out or so on and so on and so forth, you know, we can potentially sell the house. And, you know, I was just talking to my wife about it and we're young, right?

>> Good. >> We have we have seven months worth of savings, you know. Um, there is a a truck that I want to get rid of cuz that's like 580 bucks a month that I just don't need right now, right?

>> Uh, we make a really decent living for living in Miami. Um, >> and I just that house is kind of causing not headache in the marriage or anything like that, just our sense of peace for us, right? >> Yeah. >> It's uh going negative every month. And that's Yeah. That's 400 not including CDD fees, garbage men fees, ADT security. >> So you were just losing money hand over fist. >> Hand over fist. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Negative730 is the exact amount every month. >> How long have you had this property and been renting it?

>> We were there. I've been we had it we've had it so far three years we lived in it 10 months. >> So you've been you've been losing $730 a

month for three years give >> $730 the last fiscal year the last 12

months. >> Oh my gosh. >> This last uh Yeah. For 2025.

>> I mean do you see where there's no profit there because that you're only going to make 15,000 for the sale. This this type of math you've got to be doing to understand what you're in the business for. Are you in it for you know making long haul on the property? Are you trying to make something off the rents?

There would just there just wasn't a plan here. When you failed a plan, you plan to fail. >> And I would roll my sleeves up with my realtor, uh, if I were you, >> and I would walk this whole lease thing out. 11 months.

I'm just because I'm going to tell you something. The market in Tampa is going down. I don't know what it's going to look like 6 months from now or a year from now, but you got 11 months. And so, I would want the full picture of what every option then, can we be ready?

And then what do we have to do if we have no options, Jade, and 11 months rolls around. What's our strategy? So, I would get in control. So, we're going to list this thing >> at eight months, >> you know, just don't let this thing happen to you happen to >> uh and then one quick question because I want to get it from a source, a Florida resident.

>> What is the status of the no property tax legislation or idea by Dantis?

does that stand?

>> So, that is still TBD. I know there's been a lot of hype around Deantis wanting to go ahead and eliminate property taxes, but a lot of folks are saying like how are they going to be able to fund schools?

>> So, it's not active, right? You know, I get all that, but I I was just wanting to know where is it active legislation or is it just him throwing it out there?

>> Uh, I mean, him throwing it out there.

There they are in the process of it, though. >> It's not active yet. Gotcha. Okay. >> Yeah, it's not active yet, but a decision will be made soon. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. >> Well, listen, man. I wish we wish we had better news for you. Um, I would see what your options are in that contract.

Read the fine print.

>> See what your options are. If you have no options, have a game plan so that hopefully we move this house >> pretty quickly um upon being able to

sell it uh based on the the lease situation there because you just don't want to be stuck with that. And Jade, this is a great review. We have a lot of new people coming in all the time. This is a great way to kind of do a review.

Why do we tell people this story being example a um to not be long-term

landlords? I mean, excuse me, long distance. >> Long distance. Well, I feel like the first part is what we kind of highlighted, which is a lot of people get into that long-distance landlord game not by uh thoughtful choice of this

is where I'd like to buy a property and be a renter. It's I used to live here, I got a job, I'm moving, or maybe you're in the military and you're hopping around. So, it's just kind of like this default. Well, this seems convenient and then you're you're far away.

It's a pain in the butt if the person is not, you know, paying. You're you know, in this case, he wasn't I mean, he was almost a state away. Tampa to Miami may as well be a state away. But it's very hard to manage things from long distance.

And you did not pick a property based on mathematics, based on doing any sort of spread. You just >> kind of ended up that way. And nine times out of 10, those are the ones where they're causing the most amount of stress.

they're not covering it. And so it's just got to let it go. Simplify a simple a simple life, Ken. >> Yeah. And low risk, right? Now, you know, you talk about the Florida real estate market. You know, it got overheated. >> It sure did. >> Before you buy something, you should be paying attention, talking to those grizzled real estate veterans who've been grizzled. >> They've been around. They they may not look grizzled, but they got experience.

in in Florida, they're sunbeaten.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. But they know. They've been around.

>> They've seen real estate cycles. You got to know this stuff so that you don't you don't put yourself in a high-risisk situation cuz a lot of people go, "Well, I got the house. Let me just rent it now. I've just made my portfolio a reality." And it's just not that simple.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Glad you're with us. Isabelle is joining us now from Wisconsin. Isabelle, how are you today and how can we help?

>> I'm doing all right today. Thank you for asking. Good. Um, I I guess I have a

weird situation. I make $20,000 a year

and I work at a bar and restaurant. My

boyfriend and I, well, he owns it, but

uh my rent is connected to that salary

that I make. My vehicle is connected to that salary that I make. I feel like I'm kind of a hostage in this situation.

>> Sweetheart, I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to. This sounds like scary

manipulation.

$20,000, first of all, is below the poverty line.

Let's start there. That's Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. >> And then after your rent is coming out

of that and after your car payment is coming out of that. Is that right? He's paying for those two things.

>> He bought my car and uh I drive it. He

maintains it within reason. I suppose I

still have to do like the major stuff on it. >> What kind of car did he buy you?

>> It's a 2014 Honda CRV. So, not not, you

know, not a real luxury item here.

>> How much did he spend on it? >> Expect that. >> No, I know. I'm just trying to do the math here. How much did he spend for that? >> He bought it. He bought it for $8,000.

>> Exactly. So, he bought you an $8,000 car. That comes out of the $20,000. So, he goes, "Now all I have to do is pay her 12." >> No. Um I I still make my my salary is

20,000. He bought me the car and um my

rent is kind of included without having to pay for that salary of $20,000 a year. >> Okay. The way you worded it, I thought it was coming out of the 20. So, you're making 20 period. >> But why? >> That's it. >> Why are you Why would you stay How old are you? >> I'm 28. >> Why would you stay here in December?

>> What's causing you to stay at a job that's paying you 20,000? That's not a living wage.

Uh, I feel like I'm barely making it by.

I >> Yes, but what's causing you to stay there? >> Of course, you're barely making it by, but what's causing you to stay there and not go for another job? Cuz you could, my point is, you could go to Target and make more >> or Walmart. >> I don't have a Target around me. Uh, >> uh, >> oh, now Isabelle, don't start making excuses.

Answer the question. What is keeping you Well, let me ask a back another backstory question. Are you living with him? >> Sure. Yes. >> Okay. >> Uh >> Okay. >> Yeah, we we've been dating for three years. >> Okay. When did the bar When did the

>> Okay, hold on. When did the bar job

happen? When did you start working for him?

>> About four and a half years ago.

>> What were you doing before that for work? I've I've always been a kitchen

person and I now I'm kitchen manager and I

>> for his for his bar.

>> And is his bar is it struggling? Is he just scraping by as well or is it doing okay? Is it doing well? What do you know? >> Uh he makes $7,000 in a weekend.

>> Okay. >> We we don't talk about finances to be honest. >> Okay. And does he pay for all of your he

pays for everything except for a little bit of spending money that you have from the 20? Is he covering all your bills or are you covering other things?

>> No, I'm covering other things. I'm in debt $3,500 because I was trying to help my mom

because she was a single mother.

>> Okay. >> And uh it's complicated but

>> Okay. Well, your whole situation is complicated. How old is he?

Uh, he just turned 40.

>> I had a sense of that.

>> I'm not I'm not a relationship expert, nor am I going to try one. But I think this is a manipulative relationship at best. >> And I think that you think you can't do any better. You've been making $20,000 a year for four and a half years.

I'm guessing >> three. >> For three years. >> What would happen if I Tell me honestly what would happen if today you said to him, "Hey, I'm not going to work at the bar anymore. I'm not making enough money.

I found another job and I'm going to take that job instead. What would happen? >> Well, we've had that talk before and he would kick me out and I would no longer work there and I would have to find another job. >> Okay, so there it is.

>> Yeah, we got a weird >> This is that right there, Isabelle.

knew that that was the answer and I just wanted you to say it. Do you think that you can stay with somebody like that that doesn't want you to get ahead >> and and be able to stand on your own two feet? Do you think it's healthy or safe for you to be with someone like that?

>> I mean, not entirely. Um, I guess what I

really am trying to do is work my way out of my debt. And >> but how can you? He won't let you earn any money. He's controlling you.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, here's the answer, Isabelle.

Here's the answer. The only way you work your out way you're out of debt and stay in this abusive relationship, because that's what this is, >> 100%.

um is you're working a part-time job

>> based on what you've told us. >> No, I I don't work a part-time job. On salary, I'm I'm 90 hours a week.

>> It doesn't matter. You're working 90 hours a week to make $20,000 a week.

>> That's what I'm saying, Isabelle. I'm trying to help you understand there is no way to work out of this. And and Jade and I and anybody on the Ramsy Show is going to tell you there's always a way to work yourself out of it, but there's no way to work yourself out of it in this situation where you're working 90 hours a week. You are an indentured servant. Look it up.

That's what this guy's got you turned into. You're basically working for your livelihood. Meaning, uh, he's just going to give me rent. He got me the $8,000 car. He's got you underneath his thumb.

>> And there's no way for you to get out of this other than you break up with this guy. You have to. >> And you go work. You go get a good job and you start over. >> Well, I I want to I want to flip the script on you in a couple of ways. What did you think we were going to tell you if if if because you said, "You know what? I really need something. I'm going to call these folks on the radio." What were you hoping we might tell you?

>> I guess I really didn't know.

>> Yeah.

>> We're on your side. >> I've been thinking it for a while and uh

I I guess I maybe just needed some reassur reassurance, >> something. >> Listen, I'm I'mma tell you right now. Um

we we love you. We do. Uh we want the

best for you. You can't stay with this guy. >> No, >> you cannot. He's not going to let you get ahead. He's controlling you and it's tough because he's 40 and you're 28 and you've been with him for 3 years and it seems like he holds all the power and all the cards because right now he does.

But that doesn't mean that you can't go out and get yourself a job and get get ahead. I think that this it's like you're under a glass. >> I gota I got to say this, Isabelle, you you've been with him four and a half years. Did I hear that right?

Well, I've been working with him four and a half, but we've been dating for three. I'm sorry. But that puts you at about 25 years of age and you've had to help your mom. You went into debt three grand to help your mom because she's a single mom. And my guess there's this abuse that runs in your past >> and I think you're terrified of becoming your mom. So, this guy at 40 years of age, as manipulative as he is, um he

represents safety for you. That's what I think's going on. And I'm going to recommend that you >> maybe Yeah. No, I it it's exactly what's

going on. And I I want you to go to some friends and family that that love you

and ask them if you can stay with them.

>> You get yourself a new job. Let's get on our feet financially. Go see a therapist. That's your homework assignment. But I think you got to you got to break up with this guy or I need to take a break. And you need to see yourself. You don't have to do a full breakup, but take a break. Let's let's leave. Go spend some time somewhere else and and maybe find a job. not maybe find a job where you can make some money.

Let's see what life feels like on the other side of this cuz I think you've gotten pulled down. And if you've got any money that you can get a therapist with, go see a therapist and get a real professional opinion on this.

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Hey folks, if you're enjoying the show and it's helping you and you think it'll help others, would you help us help them? And you do that by liking, subscribing, following, sharing, all of the buttons. You know how they are. And uh so whether that's podcast, YouTube, however, we'd love for you to share the show and that helps us spread the good word. Alice is up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Alice, how can we help you today?

>> Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. My question is, does it make more

sense to contribute money to a spousal

Roth IRA or continue doing what I'm

doing, which is currently setting money aside uh in an emergency fund and other

expected expenses such as vacation, maybe a future car purchase, etc. My

husband's going to continue working for about another 10 months to 12 months.

>> Okay. So, this is in this is you planning for retirement.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, how old are you guys?

>> I'm 65. My husband is 64. I retired in

2015 to take care of my mother and then

I took care of my sister who had early onset >> Alzheimer's. >> And so I have been out of the workforce for quite a while.

>> Okay. And so um tell me what you guys have so far in

retirement.

Um together we have about 1.5 million

um in 401ks, 403bs, Roth and my husband

has a PSP. >> Okay. And is there anything else? Tell me about your other assets. Do you own your own home? Do you still have a payment? Tell me about that.

>> Our home is paid off. Our vehicles are paid off. My car is a 2012

>> and I don't have to have a brand new car. That's not my thing. I'd rather not have a payment, but I know that I might have to purchase a car in the future.

So, that's one of the things that I plan on setting money aside for as well.

>> Okay. >> And otherwise, we have minimal credit card debt, and we pay groceries,

utilities, cable, internet, our phones,

and that's pretty much it.

>> Okay, got it. Um, what's the homework

worth? What's the home worth? There we Um, in our area probably

about 350,000.

>> Okay, good. Now, what's your husband work? You said he's working 10 10 to 12 more months. What's he earn?

>> He currently earns about 80,000 annually. And so, we've worked really, really hard to pay down debt.

>> And I've been doing the uh spousal um

Roth contributions. and I've currently stopped. I don't always have the money to do that, but my thinking was, does it

make more sense to contribute to the Roth since he's going to be off work um

in about 10 to 12 months when he retires, >> or do I just keep putting money away?

And what I do, and I know this is probably something that you're not going to agree with, but I have little envelopes, in other words, little buckets, and I put money aside uh for an

emergency fund. I currently have 10,500

set aside in the emergency fund.

>> Okay. >> And then um if things get better in

Israel, we that would be kind of our dream vacation is to go to Israel.

>> Okay. And uh so for vacation for that.

>> Okay. I you know I I'm not mad at that.

I'm guessing he's contribute continuing to contribute on his end uh to a Roth

IRA as well. And so the spousal, you're kind of like, do we still need it? Um, I like the idea that you've been saving an emergency fund because you do need some liquid money. We would suggest six months um of liquid money. It's just good to have there so that you're not having to pull, you know, things out of investment for emergencies and things like that. Um, I'm not my my um my

framework on this would be you need to be investing at least 15% of the income.

That's kind of where we sit. if you're investing 15% whether it's in Roth IAS,

spousal IAS, 401ks, wherever you choose,

everything else from there on. Um, yeah, if you want to save up some more for vacation, if you want to have a little, if it makes you feel comfortable to have a little bit more cash money, I'm not upset with that. You guys are doing really, really well. 1.5 million in retirement, a paid for $350,000 home. I

I don't think that you can mess this up at this point with the the couple of thousand dollars that you're talking about here. Yeah, I agree.

>> Question question for you. So, the 1.5

million or so. Um, I felt really comfortable with that, but for the last almost 5 years, things have gotten so much more expensive and I would like to leave a little inheritance for my kids.

>> Um, okay. >> And let me explain that so that you'll understand it. So, you've got 1.5 million here. Let's pretend that the interest on that is about 10 10%. Right?

That's the compounding growth that's occurring. You could pull $150,000 a

year from that and never touch the nest egg essentially. Does that make sense?

Which is more than what your husband earns now. He earns 80,000 a year.

>> Okay? >> So, you'll have more than enough to continue to live. Plus, you both will receive social security, or at least he will. Do you see what I'm saying? So there's definitely there's definitely plenty of wiggle room there. You will have plenty to leave to your heirs or anybody that you know is going to be a beneficiary on this.

>> Another question. So the money that I have in the little buckets um I keep

it's not invested. I keep it at home

>> in envelopes in a safe. And you might get mad at me there, but should I be putting that in a high yield savings account like my emergency be great to do that. >> Now, I'm not going to lie to you. I keep c I have cash. I like having cash that I can get to. Uh and I also keep my main

emergency fund in a high yield savings account. But that's just cuz I'm a real Ken. You don't keep any cash in the house? >> Oh, okay. You don't keep any cash in a safe?

>> Okay.

>> You're asking. >> I'm just saying I I like to be ready.

Like I got it. I'm like on Jason Bourne.

I've got the passports AND THE CASH RIGHT THERE. I'M READY to go.

>> I just know there's ain't much you can do about it. You have all that cash and the zombies will still get you, you [laughter] know.

>> Oh, my worry about it.

>> My point is Alice, if you know I I the 10,000 I would definitely put that in a high yield savings. If it makes you feel better to have a little bit of cash on hand in the house, that's totally fine as well. The other thing is like people come knock on my house, try to take stuff and go, "You're welcome to my shoes." >> Uh there's a decent amount of money there. [laughter] >> But me, too. >> There's no I just said it live on radio or >> what's that?

>> I just said it live on radio.

>> That's all right. They don't have your address. >> It's okay. We haven't told them who you are. [laughter] You're going to be okay.

But yeah, the answer is the answer is yes. You your money is safe. I feel it's very safe. Put it in u you know a high yield savings. That's the best place.

Why not get the money on that little envelopes? >> Um, you know, and so yeah, that's why we that's why we >> But I love how methodical you are, Alice. I just love how she's just been thoughtful about putting it in the envelope, put it to the side, >> and you guys are going to be fine. And I love how you walked her through the real numbers there.

You know, I think people need to know when you go, what's my number? In other words, what what's the nest egg, the retirement nest egg, where I feel like, and I love the exercise where you walk through and by the way, run the numbers. >> Yes. Run it on a 10%, run it on eight, run it on six, >> run it on four, >> right?

And then all of that is helpful.

>> Run those numbers so you can see what it is you need and you make those adjustments, but you guys are going to be fine. I'm not worried about that at all. >> Uh, but you for real do the whole safe thing. >> Look at my face, Ken Coleman.

>> Okay. Well, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. >> I I think that now don't get me wrong.

It's not to it's not a any, you know, uh

I'm not going against the baby steps. I still do all the things that the baby steps say. It's just in addition to I feel good knowing, >> you know, something goes down and you just need to get to this is you never hear me spin out like this, but something goes down and you just need to get to the airport and get out of the country, >> right? >> I'm going to be ready to go.

>> You are ready? Yeah. You've got You've got a little You got a little pack bag in the safe. It's all >> There's no bag.

It's just the documents in order.

Oh man. I just think I'm a person though that when I go out of town, I text my brother and I'm like, "Here's where the will is. Here's where like I I I just prepare in that way." >> Yeah. Well, now our whole family knows that if something were happen to Stacey and I traveling, we we've got a spot for that.

I get that. But in your scenario where you got to get out of town, you realize everyone else is at the is at the airport. The only thing the cash does is is put you at the front of the line for coffee because you're offering more money.

>> Wrong.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right, if if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills next week?

>> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, Jade. The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a world class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. I want you to imagine going on Every Dollar uh after going into your app store, Google Play and you get in there and you spend about 12 to 15 minutes answering specific questions.

>> And then right away >> like you were on the air with us, you get recommendations on where you can save money and it's several thousand dollars. Imagine that.

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You are with it. It is a perfect partner. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. It will absolutely be a gamecher for you. Ashley is up next in Indianapolis. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm a realtor. Um, so my

commission actually goes through an LLC we just set up. But, um, I have a savings account where I've been putting my salary in, but it's been really sloppy this past year. So, I really wanted to kind of get clear. We're on baby step two. Um, so, how should I be

using that salary account? Should I put in like six months and dwindle it down

and replenish it every quarter or should I have a full year salary in there before I started attacking the debt?

>> Oh, I see. Okay. So, are you the only Is

it just you or you said you're married, right?

>> I am married. Yeah. >> Okay. Does your husband work?

>> He does. >> Okay. What is What do you bring in uh a year and what does he bring in per year?

>> So, this year I'm bringing in 130 and

he's bringing in 40.

>> Okay. So, what does it cost on annual B

and we can look at this monthly. Let's let's look at it monthly. What does it cost on a monthly basis to make your household run?

>> 4,000. >> 4,000. Okay. So, what I would be doing is since you know that, it sounds like

you're whenever you get a big lump sum of money, you're throwing it in savings and you're just kind of filtering in your portion of whatever makes the household run every single month. Is that right?

>> Sort of. So, all of my commission goes

into the LLC checking account. And then I put in what I know I need to get paid for the next couple of months, which is $2,000 a month, and that goes into our

personal account. >> Okay. And then you're trying to understand, okay, with the rest of it, can I go ahead and start paying off debt or how much do I need to keep aside?

>> Correct. Yeah. Like, should I should do like six months and then replenish it?

>> Well, how about we come at it >> or if I should do a year? >> What if we come at it a different way?

How about you tell us how much you have in savings in or excuse me in the LLC account right now?

>> Right now we've got 13,000 in total.

>> Okay. >> And uh how much debt do you have and list it out for Jade? Smallest to largest.

>> Cool. So smallest to largest, we've got five in school loans.

>> Okay. >> Seven in a motorcycle.

[laughter] Um 21 in car and then 22 in

credit card. >> Okay. Few more questions about that.

What's that motorcycle worth if if you or he were to sell that today?

>> He rides it an awful lot. So, I don't know. It might be worth five.

>> Okay. You notice I You notice I said if I get I get I get it. And it's such a small amount. You guys could knock that out so we don't have to get rid of it.

What uh uh Okay. So, Jade, you've got a picture of the debt right now.

>> Uh what do you have in the pipeline as far as home sales?

So, I have two that are pending past their contingencies. That'll be about 13,000 um this in the next 30 days. And then I also have five active listings. So,

[snorts] >> looking at maybe 20 more thousand.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That gives you a better picture. >> Yeah. You've got 13 coming and then maybe another 20,000 in active listings.

Uh and there's already 13 there. I probably If your husband made a little bit more money, I might pull this number back.

But if I were you, I'd want like

two months there. Does that feel right?

>> Two months in the in the account to know that I'll be okay. >> Yeah. So, instead of 13, you said 2,000 a month is what you pay yourself. So, she's saying 4,000. >> Four or five. >> Leave. Okay. Leave five. Let's say five.

And that gives you eight to put towards debt. That's what she's throwing out. Does that feel like and then on a regular occurrence that five if it goes down you're always replenishing it to where it's always five? You're you're paying yourself your monthly amount plus there's always five in the contingency account. Does that feel good?

>> Okay. So, more like an emergency account. >> Yeah. But I don't want it to be confused with your emergency fund >> because this really just is it's kind of like if you have any other sole proprietor, you just want to make sure, hey, there's money coming in.

I understand my my income is very >> fluctuated. >> We would call this retained earnings in Entree Leadership Land, right? And and so but what we're also trying to do right now is >> we're trying to coach you up on what you can do with the 13 that's in there right now and make some headway. You've got a $5,000 student loan that you could knock out immediately.

>> Done.

>> Oh, 50 bucks.

>> Okay. It's still 50 bucks. 50 bucks is 50 bucks. Yeah. which is great. And then the next month, my goal would be to knock out this motorcycle.

>> Yeah. Okay. That's 12 grand over two

months. >> Can I be honest? I'd sell the motorcycle. >> Well, I was going that direction. >> I'd get the two I'd take $2,000 so that you're not upside down and I'd sell it.

That's what I would do. >> But you said he rides it a lot. That's what the only reason I You know what I'd do? I'd challenge him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd challenge him to go get a side hustle. What does he do, by the way, for $40,000 a year? He so we actually live

in Anderson which is like a smaller market but um he is in training to become an electrician so he is going to skyrocket crush okay you know what for that that's where I'm at yes Joy I mean

excuse me Ashley sorry sorry Ashley I think he keeps it um and you guys go all

in on this and knock this knock this out but I knocked the student loan out today I'd cut a check for five grand as soon as I got off the phone that's going to feel >> that's going to leave eight in there Jade Um, and it's going to feel real

good. Like that's a massive momentum.

>> Yeah. And then put the other three on the motorcycle. >> That cuts that in half essentially.

>> And then the next month, so that means in December the whole bike will be paid off. And now you guys will be setting yourself up to work on the credit card debt. Now, is it one credit card for 22,000 or is it littleer ones?

>> No, it's uh there's two. They're basically split in half. >> Okay. So Okay, great. So yeah, I I would work on right after that. Yeah. And now you got 11,000. One $11,000 card and the next $11,000 card. You guys are going to go so fast like this.

>> I love it. I love it. How What's your anticipated timeline for him to start making the money as an electrician?

>> Um I think he's due for a raise in six months, but about a year is we'll actually know for sure when he'll get in there. I think you guys, if you really get after it, I mean, you're going to be a long way down the line here on paying off this debt by the time he comes into some really nice money. >> I think you're going to be done by the end of the year because I think you're killing it on real estate. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> That's all right. Before you pay, it takes a minute to get the bearings on this. >> Listen, we're not playing armchair quarterback and looking in the back and looking in the past. Ashley, this you guys are a great young couple. This debt is very manageable. I'm so proud of you.

The thing that made me smile, by the way, Ashley, is when you told me what was in your pipeline, you know, great.

Five houses sitting out there. Let's see if we can stack two or three more on top of that. That's a beautiful situation for you. >> And if he starts side hustling, yeah, mark my words, in 12 months, you're going to be out of debt. He's going to be, you know, >> increasing his income greatly. You guys are going to be it's going to be looking good for you, >> right? Well, thank you guys a whole bunch. >> Yeah, you you're in great shape. Head up, right? Super excited. Um, we're

going to put you on the spot before we let you go. >> What are the chances, Ashley, that you cut a $5,000 check today to pay off that student loan?

>> 102%.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT? [cheering] >> THAT'S WHAT I'm talking about. >> That's like a nice birdie puck clap right there. I think that's fantastic.

>> I love that. >> You know what I love about her? >> Get it. >> She said 102%. That means is happening, Ken. >> I think she's cutting a check right now.

>> That is That's great. >> Uh, boy, that feels good, doesn't it?

Describe for people from a from a from a person who with your husband, you paid off half a million. What is it going to feel like to her? Describe the feeling for somebody who's yet to do it. >> Oh. Oh, boy. It's It's like nothing else because it's never comes back. It's a stress that never has the ability to come back in your life again. It's >> deleted. Deleted from the deleted files.

>> Yes. Yes. evaporated. Min and blacked.

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[music]

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>> All righty then. Today's question comes from Katherine with a C in California.

and she says, "My husband and I make a combined income of over $250,000 a year.

We have no debt other than our mortgage, which we're on track to pay off in two years. We follow the baby steps, budget every month. We have college funds set up for our two daughters and are intentional with our money." Jade, here's my dilemma. I love Christmas and

for years, we've only bought dollar store or thrifted decorations that don't last. I'd like to invest around $1,000

in quality Christmas decorations for our home that we can use year after year to build memories with our girls. My husband feels like this is frivolous and not aligned with our financial goals.

[laughter] >> But it's something very important to me.

Jaden Ken, >> HOW DO I APPROACH THIS conversation with him in a way that honors our financial goals but also makes room for meaningful

spending? Ah, I'm just so mad that this

is even a struggle. You guys have done so well with your money. You've been so intentional. This $1,000 that really is

a one-time expenditure cuz she's saying, "Can I spend $1,000 one time, get some quality stuff?" >> Yeah. >> This is not going to derail anything that you're doing in your world.

>> No, >> you could put the $1,000 out the window and let it blow away and it's not going to change anything in your world. >> Well, I'd want to know. I wish she was on the phone because I want to know how much she spends every year that he's supposedly okay with. Which, by the way, he's not okay with.

>> She's married to Ebenezer Scrooge on this deal. He doesn't care about Christmas decorations. He just doesn't care. >> Yeah.

>> But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let's talk about this because you and I are both married.

personally it's not my thing. >> I know I know the story about his Halloween outfit. >> The man bought a Ninja Turtle costume >> straight off the movie lot. >> Straight off the movie.

>> But he sold some stuff. We talked through it. He did it the right way. >> He did.

>> But my point is that is just part of being married is there's things that >> you got to let it go. >> Get your spouse like >> because he's responsible about it. And this lady is responsible.

>> Oh at the dollar store she's probably spending like $15$20 just getting some little duads and stuff. >> I think she you know you got to sit down with him and go go babe this is actually a very small amount of money in the grand scheme of what we do. Uh I'll bet she spends about a hundred to 200 bucks a year. So, if she goes, "Look, $1,000 for really nice stuff.

It's going to get us five years worth of stuff. We're not have to spend much at all. You just got to speak the guy's language to one degree, but at the end of the day, you got to pull the wife card and go, "Hey, you know what? We're doing great.

>> That's the part because I don't think she needs to spend a whole lot of time explaining why this isn't very much money. I think the guy knows math and I think he knows that this is not a lot of money. He doesn't care. >> He It's just not a value to him. But he needs to understand that it's valuable to her. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Happy wife, happy life, man.

>> You know, you got to turn the lights off at the end of the day. So, let's make sure. I know. >> Do you know what I'm saying? Certain battles aren't worth the fight. Ken, >> I You're talking to me. I just want

people to know I'm giving out advice that I actually follow.

>> Uh, say what's on your mind.

>> You know, I'm about ready to >> say it. I know what you're thinking. Stacy has bought into the what I call the great candy inflation. And in our

neighborhood some several years ago, we discovered some houses are giving out fullsize candy bars.

>> I have a fundamental problem with that.

I think that you you're a teenager, you go buy your own fullsize candy bar.

>> You don't get it at my house. We're giving away free candy. You get the junior size. I just think it's too much luxury. These kids have no hardship in their life. I know. I'm off my lawn, but guess what? She thinks it's okay. And guess what's happened the last three years? >> Papa sat back. >> Fullsized candy bars I'm handing out this year as I sat on my front lawn with the fire pit and here I am handing out fullsize Milky Way and having a bad

attitude the whole time. >> But what did you understand that allowed you to do it? >> That it makes Stacy happy. Boom.

>> And so therefore it needs to happen.

>> Boom. >> And I can afford the fullsize candy

bars. You could have thrown them a budget item. >> You could have thrown them in the bonfire. >> I could have burned them. I almost did for principal's sake.

>> I [laughter] kid. I ain't ever going to throw a fullsize Milky Way away.

>> By the way, I did a little uh uh Mr.

Coleman tax. Did you? >> Before the kids got there. >> Oh, always. >> I had myself a Milky Way. You should have seen me sitting in the front. >> The whole thing >> waiting for the kids to show up. I went ahead and had myself a full Milky Way.

>> Wow. >> Underrated candy bar.

>> It's okay. It's not my favorite.

>> Just saying it's underrated. You and I know what what the dealio is. We know about the Butterfinger and the Payday. >> Butterfinger is the best candy bar in the world. And I agree with you on that.

Joy is up in St. Paul. Joy, you're never going to get that much of your life back as we talk about candy bars, but we're here for you now.

>> Fantastic. I was wondering if there's a a Halloween version of Scrooge that we could call you, Ken.

>> Oh, good call. Yeah. Is there a grumpy Halloween movie character?

>> Yeah, >> I think they're all grumpy. thinking Adam's family. >> But you know what? Truth is, Joy, I've gotten past it and now I just go with the flow and I the kids go, "Wow!" when I hand them their fullsize candy bar.

So, you know, >> so good for you. Okay. >> How can we help you? >> Fantastic. Okay. I am working a full-time job right now that I sort of like and a part-time job that I love and

I am burnt out and I need to make a

change. And I've been doing I've been doing this for about a year and I'm just I'm over it. So, I think that my two

options here are to number one, quit the part-time gig that I love and just do the full-time thing that's more stable that I don't really like, or I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a job offer come in at the end of this week for another part-time thing that will be in the field that I love so I could do the two part-time things.

>> Interesting. >> Together. >> Oh, this is pretty simple. I think

>> are are do both part-time jobs pay the

same more or less than the full-time?

>> Yeah. If I was just doing the full-time job, the two part-time jobs together is very comparable to what the full-time thing is. >> Okay. And if I heard you, you love both part-time jobs.

>> I know that I love the one. The other one, you know, I haven't done it yet, so I'm not 100% sure, but certain that.

>> Okay. But you know that that's up to you to determine in the job interview. And I want to tell you, Joy, that the job interview is for you, not for them. So many people think that we're always trying to impress everybody else. Pick me, pick me, love me, hire me. And and I

think the job interview is more for you to go, do I want to be picked by you?

And so it's certainly important in this situation >> that you don't take this second part-time job unless you know >> that you know that you know that you got a good picture of what this thing's going to look like. And that's asking questions like describe this job

every day and every week. How much does it change? When it changes, what's it look like? Another fun question to ask the interviewer is describe a year from

now if I'm crushing it and my annual and you're saying Joy you crushed it. What did I do?

>> People don't get asked those questions. Great question. >> And you need to put it on them and just sit back and smile >> and keep asking those questions. Now, let me ask you another question very quickly. Uh are you in the full-time job

because you just needed the income to pay off debt?

Oh, we we don't have any debt. We're baby steps five and six. I just I but I did need more income because we do have a mortgage and I needed I wanted the full-time job because, you know, it's more stable. I've been looking for a full-time job for three years and just kind of piece mealing together part-time 1099 contract stuff. So, that's why I took the full-time job. >> All right. But the point is is you guys don't have to have the income. It's nice, but you don't have to have it.

>> Or we have to have it. Yes or no?

No, we need we need more than what the part-time job can give me. >> All right. So, my point is I would go with the two part-timers. If if you do what I tell you to do and you ascertain through the interview process that this is in fact a great uh part-time job.

Now, I've got two part-time jobs and I sayanara out. I'm out. No longer doing

the uh full-time job that you don't love. It's very simple. >> Okay, >> we keep the income but now we got more joy. Pun intended there. I did that on

purpose. [laughter] I couldn't help myself. A good job. >> Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You're a smart, smart lady. Uh I think you know what to do here. So do your do your due diligence and if the interview feels right and it's a good thing for you, go for it.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you all. The phone number for you to jump in is88255225.

Kelly is going to join us now from Syracuse, New York. Kelly, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you so much for uh chatting

with me. So, I have kind of a loaded

question with a complex thing, but I'll just give you the basics up front. Um, I

am 37, my husband is 35. We have two

boys. One is almost one, one is two and a half. We have been working on baby steps. Um we've probably got about 80,000 or so left. Um and

uh other than that, we have no consumer debt. It is all um either student loans

or we owe my mother-in-law a little bit for helping with taxes. But um >> just this last week, I got diagnosed

with um brain cancer actually. And so

this I'm just trying to like get a grasp

on like what what should we prepare for? Um,

right now we're on Medicaid and so um a

lot of our medical bills are covered, but there's some um fertility stuff,

some stuff that's not be colored covered. And I feel like we're always kind of teetering on the are we going to qualify for Medicaid this year or not?

And so just what like where should we start, my husband and I, as far as like

>> Kelly, yes, >> you are. Can I just tell you the way you started off this call, I would have never guessed >> that you were about to tell us that you are an inspiration.

>> I am blown away by your spirit. So, I wanted to say that. >> I wanted to say that our hearts are stunned for you. However, I'm inspired by you and I think you're going to beat this. I am blown away. So, let's So,

first of all, just know that we are we're going to walk with you on this and and we're we're so so sorry that you face that you're facing this.

>> The Medicaid issue. What is your income?

What is your combined income or because that's the income? It's income based. Am I right? >> That's right. >> Yes, it is. So, um my husband is an

independent contractor, so he can write

off quite a bit. Um, and so that is, you

know, he can write off trucks and tools and miles and all that stuff. So that I think has kind of kept us in that Medicaid. Um, a >> So what does he what does he do for a living? >> Say he builds custom homes. Um,

>> he's the actual home builder, the general contractor.

>> No, he's not the general contractor. He works for somebody. >> Okay. And what is he? And I understand.

Don't give me the fancy tax answer.

What's his income in a year?

I want to say we probably take home five

grand a month. >> Okay.

>> So, what's that? 60. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Well, that's net 60. Um, and it

sounds to me like um the Medicaid, you really need the

Medicaid, but at the same time, I never want somebody to stay in a income bracket just to get government benefits.

>> Totally. No, we we we know that we don't want to do that either. >> Can can you tell us about uh and I'm not

trying to get too far into it, but with your cancer diagnosis, what are they saying? Is this something that they can go in and there's a surgery? Is this something that's ongoing? Do we not know what the future looks like?

>> So, this was um literally Friday. We

have like disappointments in the next two weeks coming up before Thanksgiving.

Um, we're meeting with, you know, all kinds of doctors and, you know, >> so you don't know yet. >> All of the people you Yeah, we don't know. Um, the understanding that we have

so far is that it's not in the greatest

spot, but surgery could still be an issue, but there's probably going to be some type of treatment. We just don't know exactly what that is yet.

>> Okay. >> Well, high level, here's what we would tell you. That right now, we're pressing pause. >> Yes. on the baby steps and we're stacking cash.

>> So, this is what we would tell someone if they knew a baby was on the way and we have unknown expenses. So, it certainly falls in that category. So, you press pause. Do you know off the top of your head how much you've been putting towards debt a month?

>> I want to say so we are in kind of a

a lucky I guess I'm going to say lucky

situation right now. is that lucky and

bad. We moved in to my mother-in-law's house to take care of her who has a version of Parkinson's. So add that on top of this. >> Wow. >> So we are currently we have a house

>> um that we have good friends who are just renting straight from us. Um >> and you're not paying for your current living. You're not paying the mother-in-law. Correct. >> Correct. We are not paying for her.

We're not. Um, so that's great news.

>> But I want to come back to I want to come back to the reality of where we stand >> as of Friday hit us. What were we putting towards baby step two total?

What were we putting in payments?

>> I want to say 2,000ish.

>> Great. Yeah. So that's the idea. The idea here is we're stacking up as much cash as we can. keep that same intensity that you were and put that money aside because the long and the short end of it is your husband may be missing days of work. There's going to be days of takeout. There's going to be you possibly hiring a cleaning service.

There's going to be needing other help with the the the the mother-in-law since you guys may not be able to help in the same ways that you were. Right? there is there's a lot of um and I don't say this in the way that you're a burden, but there's a lot of inconvenience coming this way because you guys must deal with this. >> Um and so having the extra money set aside to where it's not a financial problem or struggle is going to give you guys so so much peace while you're busy getting well and you know recovering from this.

So, as part of that, like it there's a

couple of like small questions. Um,

he has a truck that might be worth

20,000. Um, I'm not sure if it's quite that much. Um, we do own our house. If

we sold it, we could maybe walk away with 50,000.

And, um, so as far as those two, are those things we could should consider selling? Should we wait to see all that happens? >> I would definitely hold on the house.

>> Don't Don't do anything house. The truck though, does he What What would he make if he sold it for 20? What would he make on it?

>> We paid We paid it off, so we could walk away with 20, but we need to sign something. >> Oh, I see what you're saying.

>> I wouldn't No, >> I Nothing's on fire yet. Yes, you guys have the debt. You're covering the minimum payments, no problem. You have the $2,000 of margin. Um, I get wanting

to really go hard at this, but let's I mean, like you said, this is still so early. Let's go through the next series of appointments that you have coming up.

Let's get a little bit more information and and you can call us back, too, Kelly, if you, as a matter of fact, do >> as this goes. Call us back,

>> okay? >> And that way we can help you keep >> All right, we only have about 50 seconds. Hit us super fast.

>> That's fine. >> Go ahead. Um, we owe my mother-in-law about $5,500. She's a little bit salty for paying for some of our taxes. Should we work on paying that back as a minimum payment? >> Uh, no. It's I'm It's storm mode. And

you're doing her This is the same one that you've been taking care of, I think. Yeah. So, you're doing her a solid. She did you a solid. Right now, let's call it even. >> That's exactly right. Hold, hold, hold.

Everything we're focused on is taking care of you. >> Doing what the doctors tell you. Fight this thing. And I'm going to tell you something. Um,

Kelly, your spirit is [music] going to serve you so well. Keep that chin up.

I'm so blown away by your spirit.

>> What a phenomenal lady you are. We're praying for you, Kelly.

[music]

>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Jason is there. Jason, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. >> So, my dad owns a small electrician business

and he wants to buy a $90,000 truck for his business. So he can use it as a tax write off. >> Sure.

>> He has never been adverse to going into debt. >> Okay, that's that's good to know. So he's never been adverse to going into debt and he thinks that if he gets this truck, he will not have to pay taxes to the government and he'll be able to take that money and just put it into a truck that eventually he'll keep, >> right? >> Um he he owes from last year in his

taxes, but I think that's the result of him making a little bit more than he thought. >> It wasn't like a like he was not paying or anything, >> right? >> Um, so he he owes and he's expressed

that he doesn't even need the truck.

>> He just doesn't want to pay the taxes.

>> 100%. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've heard this before.

We've all heard this before. And it's such a uh it's such a weird mental

trade-off where people go, "Wait a second. I'm going to spend money, my money, >> in order to pay less taxes." And we think that's some sort of a good deal.

And I can't even imagine what a payment is on a $90,000 truck.

>> Yeah, cuz he's not he's going into debt for it. Correct.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. So, you got to help him. Dad, you're going to spend uh I'm going to guess it's 800 900 maybe over $1,000 a month. I have no idea what he's going to put down. I That's a world that I don't even know. So, I don't even know how to estimate. But, it's going to be a big chunk that he doesn't even

need. So, you got to kind of go dead.

You just told me you didn't need the truck. That means you don't need the $900 a month payment and you're all you're doing all of this because you like the way it makes you feel because you're paying less in taxes.

It's just such a weird financial trade-off and it never makes sense when you get it all out on paper.

>> Yeah. >> But in your head with no one else pushing you on it, it seems to make a lot of sense. Jade, you've heard this more than I have. You've coached people through this. Your thoughts? I mean, back in the day, you know, when my mother-in-law did our taxes, she was telling us to do the same thing. You got this money sitting in the business, you need to go do this, you know, spend it.

Um, well, my bigger question is before we even get into all the odds and ends, will your dad listen to you? That's the real question. If you tell him, "Hey, Dad, listen. Going into debt to avoid a couple thousand dollars on taxes is not the move." What would he even say to you?

>> Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it and he um I think he takes my opinion into

consideration. >> Um >> what's the numbers? >> I guess by that I mean like Oh, sorry.

What was that? >> Did he tell when when you told him when

he told you the plan and you spoke back to him, what were the actual numbers?

How much is he going to save specifically? That's what I want to know. And does he even know, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's like something that like I have a computer science background. I'm pretty good with numbers. What I'm not good with is the tax code. So that's really like what I've been having a hard time figuring out what is deductible so that I could give him a like a factual number of how

much he would save. >> It's not going to be over $90,000. I can tell you that. That's the point. The point is he's going to put $90,000 on

his name. He's going to add that in the plus category on his side and I can guarantee you the savings is not going to be as such. That alone does that make

I mean I don't need to tell you that but do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess what he's Yeah. I

guess it's like with the tax savings it could be around 20 to 30 grand that he

saves. Mhm.

>> And and so like he'd still have like a

$90,000 truck >> that he paid 60 to 70 for.

>> So I guess that is like a huge luxury.

Like you don't need that. Um so >> why would he have only paid 60 to 70 for the truck? He's paying 90,000 for the truck. >> Right. I just mean like if he like I don't and I don't know these. >> Oh, you're saying after the savings, after the taxes?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No point of it, no part of that makes sense. He's he's spending money, but he's not making any money,

per se, cuz he didn't even need the item to begin with. That's the That's the equivalent of me just being going to the store and being like, "Well, I bought this thing. It was on sale." Usually, it's this, but it's 50% off, so I just got it for 50% off. But it's like, yeah, but you still spent $60,000. That's essentially what he's doing is he's saying, "I can get a truck for 30,000 for for 30% off. No, I don't

need a truck, but I'll just get one anyway." That's the equivalent. Maybe if you explain it to him like that, it'll help him understand. But, um, I have a

feeling he might do it anyway. >> I think so, too. He can punch in the numbers. I just did a little I mean, this thing is all over. Well, first of all, if it's uh if it if it qualifies uh

uh as many full-size pickups do. Mhm.

>> It's the uh GVW WR over 6,000 lb. So, if

it's over 6,000 lb, you could potentially uh write off the entire

$90,000, but it still doesn't qualify in something we'd recommend because he's going into debt for it, right? >> Do you know what I mean? if he's flushed with cash and he's just, you know, but

going into debt for a tax deduction. But then there's also scenarios where he might only be able to write off um, you

know, uh, section 179 deduction limit

for 2025.

Uh, he might only be able to write off 31,000. So, he needs to get with a tax pro. >> Yeah. Find out more about it.

If there was a situation where he was paying cash, Yeah. >> If you're paying cash, sit with a tax pro. But if you're going into debt, this makes zero sense. >> Agree.

I would agree to that. I would agree to that. >> All right, Jason. I wish I wish it were different.

You You've got your work cut out for you. Unfortunately, it's not your life. >> Yeah. Yeah.

If you'll if he'll listen to you, run the numbers and show him on paper, >> right? And just walk him through it and go >> and and you, by the way, you got to make it simple. >> So, you're going to pay this much over the life of the loan.

>> Okay? You're gonna pay this much per month. >> Yep. To get this savings >> all to get this and you already owe the federal government taxes. It's got to be super simple. You can't debate emotionally. You can't say things like this makes no sense. The Ramsay people said this. None of that's going to work.

It's got to be real numbers. And even then, to your point, Jade, somebody goes, you know, I I'm going to do it anyway. >> I mean, we've all been guilty of going to the store. we didn't plan on getting anything, but we see that it's 40% off and we go, "Well, that's a good deal." And I, you know, I haven't put anything on a credit card in in over a decade, but plenty of us would swipe a credit card to get the thing that we don't need simply because it's 40% off.

That's essentially what's going on here. >> Yeah. And we do it even if it's not debt. I mean, >> yeah.

>> I I I'll buy stuff sometimes that I walk by and I go, "Well, that looks that looks nice, >> right?" >> And then I see the deal on I go, "Well, that feels nice." >> Yeah. >> I don't need it. Yeah, but the point is there's levels of how how irresponsible that looks. It's one thing if you had cash.

It's one thing if you needed the thing, you found it on sale, you paid cash, great, you got the saving. Next level is I didn't need the thing, but I did spend my own money and I paid cash for it.

>> It's debatable. >> Then the third tier is I didn't need the thing. It was on sale. I bought it and I bought it on borrowed money. That's when we're getting into Dumbo territory. And and by the way, this age-old argument that we've heard on the show a million times, >> it's all rationalization.

>> So I want I want people to understand that what's happening here with with Jason's dad is it's rationalization.

>> I don't need the truck.

>> Probably don't even want it, >> but it might be a fun toy, but I can justify it if there's a good cause

attached to it. So we don't even run the math. We don't even think of the logic. We just >> taxes. It's taxes. It's a good cause, right? Because people hate getting taxed. You feel like you're sticking it to the government, >> right? >> And you're really not, >> right? >> You know, [laughter] >> you know what I mean? And here's one for you. What are what's the tax? What are the taxes on a $90,000 truck, Jake?

>> That's what I'm saying. It's hard. >> You're paying taxes. >> Yes. Yes. >> So, I hate to be like sticking it to you over there, Pops, but you know, >> you're paying taxes on that car. Yeah.

>> As opposed to just holding on to that cash, >> right? And can we talk about that for a second? >> Let's How about getting current with your current tax bill? >> I love that. Love that idea. That's fa

fantastic.

>> Item one, [laughter] Jason's dad. Let's go ahead and get current on what we owe the IRS.

>> Oh boy. >> Last time I checked, they are not fun to deal with.

>> Yay.

Hey,

[music]

[music] hey, hey.

All right, [music] question for you folks. Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere?

Well, if that's you, you're not alone.

Maybe you've made the changes and had a few wins or something still feels off.

It's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional. It's exactly why Jade Warshaw wrote her new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It's the very first Ramsay book that takes an honest deep dive uh at the um looking at the emotional side of money, and it's going to give you practical tools to make progress for good. You can pre-order it now for the fabulous price of $24.99.

And when you do that, you get over $100 in free bonus items, including the enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to the exclusive video where Jade teaches you. It's entitled Your Financial Checkup, and then uh exclusive 3-week online book club, plus live Q&A with Jade. So, how

do you get all that? >> Pre-order. >> You pre-order it at ramiesolutions.com/store.

That's ramseyolutions.com/store.

Got to give you a quick word on it. Why should people buy this? >> Because Dave gave you a plan for your money and now I'm giving you a plan for you.

>> The part that's causing you to not work the plan for your money.

>> That's it. >> Okay. I like it. There it is, folks.

>> It's a plan. It's a proven plan. Just like you had the money proven plan, this is a proven plan for your emotions.

Boom. Done. >> Yeah. Ramseyolutions.comstore.

Go get it. Uh let's go to Susan who is in New York City. Susan, how can we help?

>> Yes. Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> So, I'm a 69year-old divorced um woman

that has four adult children in their 20s. I own a home worth about 780,000

with about a 380 uh,000 mortgage left on

it. I have only about five um about uh

$5,000 in credit card uh payments that

I, you know, I have left. I um my

question is is that I would like to build a little detached um mini house, I

guess, a small tiny house uh for me to

live in off the side of my house, which I can do as like a senior living um situation. And then I want to rent out my three-bedroom, two- bath house for about $4,500.

And I have an made an apartment also downstairs for another $2,000 that I could rent out. And then I would live in my tiny house. How do you feel about doing this for my end of life retirement plan? >> I don't like it. >> I don't like it either.

>> Why? >> Um because it's a requiring you to go into more debt in order to do it. That's thing one. And it's requiring you to be a landlord in old an older age.

>> Yeah. >> Because this, like you said, this >> Yeah. I'm a contract. I've been a contractor though. So, you know, that that part is is easy for me.

>> What do you mean?

>> I'm a I'm a general contractor.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> I'm 69. >> 69. >> I've been a contractor for 30 years.

Yeah. >> Yeah. But but but to Jade's point, this is not a knowhow. you know how to do stuff. Totally impressive. It's just a function of is that something that you want to lock into what what happens when you can't physically do it? It's not to know how you've got the knowledge, but as you age, >> Well, then I would Yeah, I would get it.

Then I would have if something came up, then I would have to get help. Of course. >> What are the numbers? Well, first of all, we're never going to tell you to borrow money. So, the answer is no to borrowing money to build a tidy home.

you save up and pay cash for it after you've walked the baby steps out, which we teach and you already have $5,000 in credit card. Um, and Jade can walk you through that in a second, but uh, I just want to know for the rest of the numbers if you rent out your home plus the

bedroom in the basement or whatever, and I think you gave us about $6,500 a month in rent that you believe you could get.

Did I get those numbers right?

>> That's correct. Yeah. >> Okay. What What do you owe on the home?

So 6,500 is what you're taking in.

>> What do you owe every month? >> So my I'm about 20 about 2,800.

>> So the mortgage is 2,800. Can I just ask a simple because there's a solution here that I'm just wondering about. Why wouldn't you uh the mortgage is 2,800 a

month. Why wouldn't you stay in the three-bedroom, two-b part and just rent the apartment below?

>> Oh, that not going to give me enough.

>> Yeah, it's not just not going to give me enough money. Okay. So, let's solve let's solve a little bit more of that because then you'd be paying $800 a month for a mortgage, which I don't think you're going to live anywhere cheaper than that. >> No, that's a fantastic number.

>> Um, so let's talk about this. So, you've

got this house. I'm going to hold it to the side for now. Um, it's worth 780.

You said you owe 380. Is that correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've got some nice equity there. You've got only the only debt in your name is the 5,000 in credit cards.

Is that correct?

Yes. >> Okay. Is there any money? Is there any other debt anywhere?

>> No. >> Is there any other money anywhere?

>> No. >> Okay. >> You have no savings?

>> No savings. >> And what are you earning right now? Cuz you said you're a contractor.

>> Mhm. I would [clears throat] say roughly only between say 50 to 60,000.

>> Okay. About $60,000 a month. And >> No, no, a year. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. You're right. A year. Um, and what's your social security?

>> Very little. 800. Nothing.

>> 800. Okay. So, that's nothing there.

>> And you have no retirement accounts at all?

>> Nothing. >> So, wow. I I think for you, I didn't want to say this because I was hoping that there was a way to get to it. How I mean, I can ask realistically, how many more years you plan to work?

>> Um, probably I would say 8 to 10.

8 to 10. We could do something with that.

>> Yeah, we got to we got to pay this credit card off. >> We're going to do that like immediately.

Yeah. >> And then from here on, we've just got to start stockpiling. We've got to start stockpiling retirement. That's what you've got to do because if you got if you can work for 10 more years, we can turn this around a little bit for you and forego selling the house as long as

possible. And that would be my plan would be for 10 years I'm going to save as much of my income as I possibly can.

I'm going to rent out this lower apartment and then I'm going to look up and in 10 years I'm going to re-evaluate. Can I keep this house and can I live off of what I've stockpiled here or do I need to sell this house and by then hopefully it's grown in value a couple hundred,000 more.

>> Okay. So my ultimate goal is to keep my house for my family, my kids, you know.

So this is the only way that I could think that without, you know, that that that would work.

>> Well, I appreciate >> that. I want to keep the equity of that of the house for them to, you know, they're not going to it's going to be very difficult having four children that are, you know, in their 20s to buy a house these days. And so really that's that's why I was thinking that this this plan would be something that would, you know, possibly enable that to happen.

>> Well, but Jade's did you understand Jade's plan? Jade's plan allows you to keep the house. >> Yeah. Cuz if you think of Let's run some Let's run some real numbers here for a minute. Let's say right now, what are you making? Around 4,100 bucks a month,

>> roughly. Yeah. >> Okay. So, let's say you rent down the rent out the downstairs apartment. So, you're paying $800 a month uh in mortgage. Let's say you picked up some other work somehow, some other things that you could bring in some money. If you could get to the point where you're putting away $2,000 or $1,500 a month

into retirement in 10 years, that's $400,000.

That ain't bad to have that at 79 years

old and you could draw some off that,

right? And suddenly that's not looking so bad. >> Draw when you say draw, you say draw some in what way? And >> well, I'd want to I'd want to see if if there's any way that you can for sure off the growth for so maybe 10% and work

with a smart vester pro to say what is this how long is this going to last me?

What can I take from this to where I can take from this until I'm 85 or what have you, 95? And I'd work with a smart vester pro to get that number. And then that's buying you time of not having to sell this house. That's right. >> Because if you can live off that nest egg, that that's another day that you get to keep this house for your family.

>> Yeah, I that my main goal.

>> Yeah. No, that's my main goal.

>> Or or listen, here's an alter and we're trying to get you some retirement income of which you have none. Okay. But if you don't decide if you decide not to do that, go with your plan. I would at least wait and and pay off your credit card debt and I'd save up the money for the tiny house if you're going to go your route.

Don't go into debt is my point. I love Jade's route. It's the route. We got to think about your long term while you're healthy >> because your social security is going to pay for the rent.

>> That's that's what I would do all day and not go into more debt.

[music]

Our

[music]

[music]

[music] scripture of the day comes from uh Luke 11 9 verses, excuse me, verses 9 and 10.

So I say to you, ask and it will be given you. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be open to you. For everyone who asks receives. The one who seeks finds and to the one who knocks the door will be open. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan. We can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone.

>> All right. >> Sadi is up in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Satie, how can we help?

Hey. So, uh, my question today is, uh, should my husband and I pull out our retirement to pay off the last of our consumer debt? >> No. >> No. >> Okay.

[snorts] So, rounding up to [laughter] Yeah, we're in step two. We paid off um

$12,000 of credit card debt from pay or

selling property, and we have 39,000 left on a vehicle, and that is our only vehicle. Um, and so we were thinking, you know, to get out of debt right now and to be at a better point, um, should we pull that out? So, >> do you understand, and if it's if you don't, it's okay. We'll explain.

Do you understand why we both said no in unison? >> Um, I believe [clears throat] so. Um, but explain. >> Well, no, you tell us.

It's always better if you get it without us having to explain it. Why do you think we said no? >> Well, I mean, it's already it's already invested. It's already in the works and you have to pay penalties as well as taxes.

>> You got it. And can I just say there's no shame in your game. We're not judging you. I love that you've had it.

>> Yeah. >> And this is all a result of having it.

We want to pay it off today.

>> Yes. >> And and and and we get that and we've

both been there before, but um you guys have done so much. How much money have you paid off in debt to this point?

um progress to 18,000.

>> Okay. And you did it in one fell swoop with the land sale.

>> Um the

>> on the vehicle already. So, >> all right. We lost you. >> Are you there? >> Yeah. Well, we are. We're not sure you were on that one. We couldn't hear you.

>> I'm here. So, um So, we paid off 12,000 on the property and roughly 8 or 6,000 on the vehicle already. >> Good. Okay. >> And what's your income together?

>> Um so, I don't work. I'm a stay at home mom and my husband makes um about 60,000 before taxes. >> All right. Tell us about the $39,000 car. What is it worth if we were to sell it uh private sale?

>> So, we're underwater roughly 10,000 on it right now. Okay. >> Okay. Well, that's the other reason why you wanted to dip in to the uh retirement because that that feels even worse once somebody's committed to something. >> So, if I were in your shoes, what would happen? I mean, if you really wanted to get out of this fast, I'm not saying you have to do this, but if you really wanted to get out of it fast, you could say, "Okay, we're going to save up um a

quick 10,000 maybe and then get a loan for the other 10,000." So, you get out of the car and then you have 10,000 to pay for a cash car.

>> So, now you have $10,000 of debt plus a $10,000 cash car.

>> How quickly could you save up 10K?

>> Um, I mean, probably within 10 months.

12 months. 12 months to save up $10,000.

>> I mean, with you guys side hustling, he picks up extra work, you're working at night, you're doing something from home.

I'm talking about when balls to the wall, how how quickly could you do it?

>> Aggressively, probably six months.

>> Okay. This is I as as excited as you

were when you first called about getting rid of this and going to any extent even you know pulling out retirement I want that same energy on the side hustle to

get the actual cash to do it because you guys can do this and again this is a suggestion because I thought you were super super excited to get out of debt.

>> If you think you can pay off the 40,000 here quickly it's going to take the same sacrifice. Mhm. >> So, it's just >> how quickly do you want to do it?

Because if you have 40,000, that's going to be that much longer that you're going to be in that that that frame of mind of

we're doing whatever we have to take. Beans and rice, rice and beans, right?

And that's not necessarily fun. So, I

[laughter] was just trying to shorten it for you. >> And that's kind of where we're at. We're we're only positive $600 a month. So,

we're putting >> we're putting that towards it. And then I'm working on getting a part-time job.

um good >> to work from home to help with that. So, we'll be hopefully $1,100 positive a

month and that's with nothing extra. So, >> great. Great. And and your husband, he needs to kick it into high gear, too. And when I can when we say

>> scorched earth, high intensity.

>> Yeah. >> Uh we really mean it, Satie. Like, this

is >> this is I I I kiss my husband in the morning and I might not see him until we're both sleep at night kind of thing.

>> Yeah. I mean, we've we've had so many debtree screams. You may have heard them on the show where people are working crazy hours and you know, just instead of the crazy hours, let's just throw a number out there. >> All right. So, let's say you guys generated an additional three grand a

month and all three grand of it went to the car. >> We're out in a year.

>> Now, I always like to oversimplify, but I don't think that's truly oversimplification. I'm just going I'm giving you a number. Then you work backwards >> and then you start going, "Well, if I got to work this many hours to get there, but it's like, what do we have to do, Satie? You and your hubs

>> through selling more stuff and working

like crazy, can we generate three grand a month that we would put on the car?" And in that case, we're out of it in 12 months and we got a nice car.

>> Great.

>> I would go that route if it were me.

>> Okay. >> And I'll tell you why, and I want Jade's take on this, but I've heard Dave say this. I've been been on this show a day before and he'll say something to the effect of, "I like you paying this car off so that you get this whole debt payoff." With the large swaths of selling something here and there while we fundamentally don't care, you don't you don't feel it as much as when you're hustling. >> If the if it was a little cheaper, I might say that.

But, you know, you guys making 60 and having a $40,000 car, that's too much. >> It's too much. No question. And that for me and the fact that you had another car that was, you know, 8 18 or whatever it was, six.

Um, it's just you guys have too much for your income. And so that's why if I had to do it, I would sell the car and get something cheaper.

Get something closer to 20 25 that feels right. Um, but I think that if you do my plan,

you'll still get some of the medicine that Ken is talking about of the Oh, yeah. I got to work. I got to hustle.

>> I I am all for selling the car, >> but because it's the only debt they have, I'm fine if they attack it, too.

But I'm I'm giving you a 12-month plan.

>> Yeah. >> On the car. >> Yeah. >> Uh and and you got to choose, but

>> Okay. >> It's going to be uncomfortable regardless. >> Yeah. >> Yep. For sure. Yeah. Is your husband fully on board here?

>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. He's He's listening to the show as we speak, so >> Okay. Okay. >> Game on. Game on. >> Yeah. Well, there you go. >> I mean, you'll be surprised what you can get for 10,000.

>> Oh, I I love searching up cars.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and and by the way, that's the quickest way to do it. Now, again, you you got to go get the smaller loan.

That's the only time we're okay with that. >> But, uh you're going to get out of debt faster. No question about it. So, yeah.

Appreciate the call. >> Good call. Good call. Um, explain the the I love this because again I always want to remember we have a lot of new people coming in. Yes. Explain our ratio on car. Why did we say this was too much car based on Yeah. >> their income. >> So the the thing to remember about cars is we all need transportation, but cars go down in value. They're not going up.

And once they start going down in value, you feel that in your wallet. You feel that in your take-home. And so if you're making, you know, our rule of thumb is you shouldn't have more than 50% of your salary in things that are going down in value. So they make 60,000 a year.

The max car they need is about 30,000 combined. So each of them are driving a $15,000 Camry. That's basically what that looks like. They've got they've got a $40,000 car and then another vehicle that they paid off.

So we already know more car than they need.

it's like, what have what are you saying, Jade? But the truth is that car payment is keeping so many people from doing the things that they want to do and need to do with their money, like invest for the future. And so, if you can get back your car payment, >> you are ahead of most Americans. If you can sell off your vehicle and if you're upside down, what we were telling them to do is go to the the bank or I don't care what kind of debt you get for the difference.

It's be if you're going down, >> it's good. If you're going from $40,000 to $6,000 because you got a $6,000 loan to cover the upside down portion so you can actually sell the vehicle, that is a win. That is a win. >> And while we're talking about this, this may not be a fun take for a lot of you, but you know, when I hear a lot of Americans, you know, talk about how expensive it is to live, most of the time they're not looking inward for just a moment to go, what are our combined car payments?

And [music] with twocar household, you're probably looking at $1,500 a month. That would change their life if that wasn't there. So, just food for thought. >> Hey, remember this.

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## 257. You Can’t Drift Into Financial Peace | March 13, 2026


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>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. Number

one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of Front Row Seat, Ken Coleman is my co-host today. Open

phones at 888-825-5225

and is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Anne. How are you?

>> I'm well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. So, I'm calling in today because

um I've been in a financially abusive uh marriage for the last 23 years.

Um I am facing prison time. I'm actually supposed to be checking in to prison on um the beginning of June.

Uh we have four children. They're all amazing, smart. Um I stayed at home with

them for the last 20 years.

Um I'm going to prison for um it's called a

conspiracy to commit bank fraud.

Um my during um COVID, my husband put my name down on documents showing that I was the owner of a couple

of companies. He um gave me different people to put down on these companies.

And um and so that's that's what happened.

Um So, I was >> you you knew this was happening when it was happening, though. >> No. No, I didn't know that it was >> you being held accountable for someone fraudulently using your name? I'm confused.

>> That's a good question. I mean

that's a good question. Um we had federal agents come to the house and um, ask questions like, is this your signature? And I said, yes.

Um, like I said, I've been a stay-at-home mom for so long. I know we have back tax

back taxes due. I signed those. I've never had my name on an account.

Um, anytime my husband would put my name on a bank account, it would it would be closed due to like overdrawn funds.

Um, so I I've been in a position that

any money was his money. I never had a say in anything we did with the money.

He had a bad gambling problem.

Um, so I mean, yeah, that's uh >> can I can I push back on this cuz this is a big thing to drop on us here.

You've already been convicted and so that means the government went through trial and proved to a jury that you did

in fact uh participate in this. And so when Dave asked you the question No?

>> No, we didn't go to trial. Um, my attorney told me that uh who I've not

been paid. My attorney told me that um

I would probably not win at a trial because >> Yes, I pleaded. Yes.

Yeah. >> long are you supposed to be incarcerated?

>> Three years.

Um, so

so they let him go in first. Um,

>> Oh, so he's in he's already in prison.

>> He was in, now he's out. Out of three years, he did one year.

Um, during that time I had gotten a job. I

had I have a graduate degree I got before I started having children.

>> How old are your children now?

>> 22, 18, 17, and 12.

>> Okay. So, I'm afraid to ask, but apparently he's taking care of them.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Are you divorced yet?

>> No. He won't He won't give me a divorce.

>> He doesn't get the option of giving you a divorce. You live in Florida. You can file for divorce, and it will be granted.

>> He takes my keys if I try to leave. He's let the air out of my tires. He's

>> I don't care.

Obviously, you can't stay married to this guy.

Obviously >> anywhere to go. I I don't know what to >> going somewhere in 3 months. So, that's not an issue.

We already know where you're going. But, in the meantime, you need to get an attorney and get divorced.

>> That's my my plan is the second I set foot in that prison that I'm filing for divorce, and I'll >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> somewhere to go after, and I'll have a better plan, and >> Yeah. Good. You get to start over fresh after living in an abusive horrible situation for a way too long.

Right? >> Right. >> Okay. Yeah. So >> And now that I've worked for, you know, the past 3 years at a job

I know I have like a 401k. What Do I

need to do anything with that before I

go away? >> Uh you can sit down with a and roll it into an IRA cuz you're probably not going back to that job, I suspect, right?

>> Prob- Prob- I I don't know. Possibly.

>> I'm kind of betting on that, yeah.

Yeah. Um so, what were you doing? What was your career for the last 3 years?

>> I um did epidemiology for a

clinic.

>> You did everything for what? For a clinic?

>> Um epidemiology tracked diseases.

>> Okay. So, you you're that's what your graduate work is in?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So, you think you can land that when you come out?

>> Probably not. No, I've I've so much resentment toward my husband. I'm I'm probably never going to be able to do anything.

>> I'm sorry. Why would you not be able to land that again? Your husband has nothing to do with this. You're not your husband anymore.

It at the end of the story and you are starting fresh the other side of a jail term.

Why could you not go back to this career?

>> I think because I have a felony, I don't

believe that I have a very marketable >> Well, let me jump in here to try to encourage you. I you have 3 months to tie up some loose ends, obviously, and one of the most important is to get your story out there either to your existing company. They probably already know this. But, this is a situation where you

have to try with everything you have to

get out the correct narrative and look people in the eye. And some people are going to say things to you cuz they don't like tough conversations. Some people don't even want to consider anything. But, I would be trying to shore up what re-entry would look like.

Cuz if your husband got out in a year, hopefully you're going to get out sooner than him. >> Yeah, you're not in a in a situation where you're handling money in any way.

So, it's a medical situation. So, having a felony is not necessarily going to keep you from landing a job.

Especially if you tell them when you go in for an interview, when you do the research, you're going to when you do the background check, you're going to find a felony. I'm out. I'm clean. I'm innocent. Here's what happened.

>> Yeah. >> I'll give you the short Give me the thumbnail sketch version of that. Uh not with a bunch of shame and not with a bunch of drama, but just a little little bit of information for the person doing the interview. And if you don't need to call me back, if you don't you know, you can go ahead and let me know now or uh if you You to give me a shot, I'll be the best employee you've ever had.

This This time This time without the baggage of an abuser hanging around your neck.

>> The year he was away was the best year of my life. >> Yeah. Well, that's Welcome to the rest of your life.

>> Yeah. >> He's away forever now.

>> Lay the groundwork now. I can't say this enough with your community. Lay the groundwork now for when you get out that you have a job or at least possibilities or people who will champion you.

>> Yeah. That's going to be very vital.

>> Plug into your local church. Let your story be known. >> Mhm. >> And um you know, you you've got two things to work on uh when you come out. You will be divorced unless you're really you're dumb.

You really need to be divorced.

You needed to be divorced 20 years ago, but now you really need to be divorced, okay? And then you got to deal with a a career, restarting your life, and taking care of a 12-year-old. And how old that 12-year-old is when you get out. But if he got out in a year on three, you'll probably get out in a year or six months on three. I think that's a reasonable set of assumptions. So, you need to get this divorce done.

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Sarah is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hey Sarah, what's up?

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I just wanted to know what your advice is on whether like taking out a loan to get a master's in counseling because I got a bachelor's degree in individualized studies, it's like a general degree, and I just haven't been able to find work that I really like.

So, what would you recommend like if that's worth it or just continue to try to find work that I can like?

>> Well, what do we think that the master's degree is going to do? Do you have a tangible idea in your mind?

>> Well, I see myself as being a really good advisor, a really good counselor, and so it would give me the credentials to be a counselor. >> Okay, what's that what's the journey like? How many years, how much money?

>> Two to three years, and it would take um 20 to 30,000 dollars.

>> Yeah, well, don't take out a loan for it. The answer is we're never going to tell you to take out a loan for that.

Um and so now you put that target out there and you go, "Okay, 20 to 30,000." Is that for the champagne uh degree? Is

that the uh is it the line or the beer budget, right? Because here's what I know about master's degrees or any graduate degree.

People don't care. Your clients, the people that you serve, won't care. So, I'm going to do some price analysis, and I'm going to go, okay, reputable schools, but I'm going to look at, can I beat that price? If I can beat that price, great. And then we're going to cash flow this, because the degree, that master's degree, will always be there.

So, it's not worth going into debt for you to have the opportunity to then get into a new field. So, the answer to that is always going to be no. You don't need to get a loan for that. You need to be patient or super urgent to stack up the

$20 to $30,000 as quickly as possible.

Are there um >> 33. >> I know. >> Um and >> How long would it take you? Okay, so let's play this out. How long would it take you at the $30,000 price to save up that money? >> Or save up enough of it to get started on it. >> Yeah, so that you can cash flow it.

>> Um honestly, I don't really know because

um >> Well, let's walk through it. >> I could sell insurance. >> Do you Do you have an Do you have a career now? Do you have a job now?

>> Um actually, I thought I could find work in I'm basically just getting started with an insurance agent to sell insurance. >> Okay, this is a trap. I'm going to warn you, this is a trap. We see this all the time.

You come out of school, you can't find something, and you think, okay, since I can't find anything, I'm going to go to the one thing I know, which is how to learn, and I'm going to go get another level degree, and that one's actually going to give me a better chance to get hired.

>> Kind of. >> Yeah, it's a trap.

It's a trap. >> Yeah, and that's not the answer. So, the answer is um if I've lived my whole life

and for the last 20 years or or five years or seven years, all I've dreamed about is getting to be a counselor, and the way to get to be a counselor is to get a master's degree because you have to have one to be licensed in every state now um as a therapist. Um and and

that's what I always I wanted to do.

That's a different narrative than I

hadn't been able to find a job now I'm selling insurance so I think I need to go back to school.

And that's a trap.

>> know. >> That's a trap. >> know what I wanted to be. I finally like cracked down and I like found my authenticity and found what I was good at and I knew I was in high school that I would be a good counselor and so I was like, you know what?

I would I I have been I've had my heart set on being some kind of counselor for the past like 5 10 years. >> So what I would do then is go to work sweeping floors for a counseling organization rather than going into insurance. And I would I would be the secretary at the front desk for the counseling organization and be in there and see if some of them even have scholarship money or our tuition reimbursement money.

you need to get in the proximity Ken always says his book with the proximity principle of that rather than I'm going to dive off I can't been able to find a job and so I'm going to dive back into studies. And diving back into studies is never a good thing when you haven't been able to find a job. So yeah you need to get get your big girl life up and running and the best place you could do that in your situation is in proximity of a counseling organization especially if

they have some kind of tuition reimbursement program. And I'm I'm not

kidding if you can sweep their floors that's what I would do rather than sell insurance. >> That's absolutely right. >> Selling insurance is absolutely has nothing to do with anything >> That's right. >> except you just took a job and they they were the only ones that would hire you this week and so you took a job and they're not even going to pay you.

They're putting you on straight commission to try to get your mother to buy insurance and then they're going to fire you. So cuz you're not going to make any sales.

this is not tracking out.

>> Yeah. >> So hang on we're going to send you a copy of the book Proximity Principle that Ken wrote. And Ken, talk about that for a minute, the whole thesis behind that book, because it's helpful to a lot of people. >> Yeah, the Proximity Principle says, in order to do what I want to do, fill in the blank there, I've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. So, the real formula is the right people plus the right places equals opportunities.

It's so this is a really empowering thought when you figure out that it's actually not a deep thought, it's just the old phrase it's not what you know, it's who you know. We all know that's true. That really that sticks because we all get that. So, it's >> some kind of slimy way, but it's just the way a door gets opened is you knew somebody.

>> That's it. Well, you told me this is one of my all-time favorites is if you ever walk by a fence post and see a turtle on top of it, you know it didn't get there by itself.

relationships. And so, the Proximity Principle is a step further to say, okay, if I want to be a project manager

then the first thing I need to do is in my immediate circle, do I know anybody that's a project manager in real life? And if it's not in my immediate circle, does my immediate circle know somebody? And now we're going to go to coffee or lunch and we're going to just simply do a book report on them, right? How did they get where they they are now?

What are the good parts of their day? What are the bad parts of their day? How much money do they make? What does the ceiling look like in that industry?

You get to know everything about it.

Number one, you validate This is called clarify and verify. You clarify what's involved in the role and the journey to the role, and then there's something inside that tuning fork will go off.

That's confirmation. That's verify that I want to do this.

The second thing is is that you now are taking the posture of a student, Dave, and you're learning. And people appreciate that. And then you say, hey, I would appreciate any other connections or relationships you'd be willing to put me in touch with. And that's where now these things begin to stack.

And eventually, if you stay that course, keep showing up in that way, opportunities present present themselves to where somebody says, "Hey, there's a job open. I just recommended you, and you're likely to get it." That's how this plays out. >> Nicholas is in Seattle.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh so, I had kind of two questions. The first one being uh me and my wife are in baby step two, and we've paid off quite a bit of debt now, and >> How much have you paid off?

>> Uh we've paid off a little over 10,000, and we're down to 7,000. >> How long did that take?

>> Uh it took I want to say maybe eight or nine months.

>> Okay. Good for you. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry for interrupting. How can I help?

>> Um so, the first question I had was if and when would it be wise of me to maybe

take some of our income now that some of the debt is paid down, to go and take maybe a family trip for the day um to

possibly go and enjoy ourselves cuz it seems like we don't get to spend as much time you know, kind of pitching all of our money towards paying off the debt.

>> In In general, you take vacations after you get your emergency fund built and after you're debt-free.

When you say for the day, I don't know why that takes any money. Where are you going for a day?

>> Maybe it's like a fishing trip, something that cost a a couple hundred dollars. >> Yeah. Okay.

Uh like just fishing on the local lake?

>> Uh maybe going up to the mountains or something. >> Uh-huh. For the day?

>> Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm asking because it almost seems as if it was wrong to spend money on something >> It is.

You need to get your butt out of debt, and you're pretty laid-back about this whole discussion. The way people get out of debt is they get a lot more fired up than you are.

They get a lot more angry about the debt than you are. And they they get a lot more intense than you are. And uh if they're thinking about a fishing trip, they're going to go buy $20 worth of rod and reel over at the Walmart and drop a float in the lake

that's about a 10-minute drive away and call that a fishing trip, which is the same thing as going to the mountains for the kids. It's only the adults that know the difference.

I got a little lake in my neighborhood, and you can catch a catch about 25 fish in 25 seconds over there cuz there's nothing going in there. I took my 4-year-old grandson down there the other day. We had a fishing trip.

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and get yourself filed, darling. Jill is with us. Jill is in Dallas. Hi Jill, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question about a trust. I've heard you say a couple different things and I'm just curious what you would do in that situation. >> Okay. >> I've heard you say maybe an LLC or if

you're raising smart kids then you don't necessarily need a trust, but I have minors and I'm just curious um what I should do. I have a house and I have um a house that is paid for and then I have some mutual funds in my IRAs and stuff like that. >> Mhm. Okay. And so your net worth is a million or so? >> Um it's close to 4 million.

>> Oh, good for you. Well done. Very well done. Okay.

Um what we did when we were at your stage and we had minor children was we set up a will and the will I'm sorry?

>> I'm sorry, I should also add I'm divorced. So >> Okay. >> My my kids are taken care of in the form in the fashion that they will go to their dad if something happened to me. I just want to take care of my stuff for them. >> Okay. Yeah, that's fine. >> So maybe that's what I do. >> the exact same thing then. So so the The guardian would be your ex. But the But

then what do we do with your stuff if you die? And while they're minors, so what we had set up on ours were minors was the trust is formed upon death.

And it's just a children's trust, very simply Jill's kids, and that's the trust. And whatever you call it, whatever you want to call it, but it's a children's trust while they're minors, and all of your assets are dumped into that trust, and then you leave instructions to the trustee of how you want those assets handled. I'll give you a couple of things we did, and you could choose to add those or not add those. Okay?

>> Okay. >> Uh one was the trust the income generated by the trust while they're minors um a a good healthy child support payment

goes to the guardian to take care of the kiddos while they're minors. So, I don't want the him to be in this case your ex to be stressed at all with clothes and

you know, food and so forth for having all the kids now full-time. Okay?

>> Right. >> Um that's one thing. The second thing we said was, "Okay, you can use some of the money from the trust when you go to college and pay cash for college. You could use it for the purchase of your first car, a minor amount for that.

Um you could use it if there was a major medical event and you needed to pull some out in addition to the monthly income to cover medical expenses for the child while they're minors." But other than that, the money was just going to be sitting there growing.

Okay? And then when they turn 18

it the uh you know, their portion of the assets would be turned over to them. That's how we had it set up. Uh later on we modified it cuz it's got to be a little larger amount of money. We said, "Okay, at 18 you get X amount, and at 25 you get the rest." Cuz we didn't want to dump you know, millions and millions on a freaking 18-year-old. Okay? So, um

that's how we handled it until they were grown. When they were grown, we changed everything, of course, uh because they're not minors anymore, and um and we even put in hours, we dictated how the money in the trust was to be handled and what it was to be invested in. Like the four types of mutual funds we talk about, and there's this piece of real estate and it's paid for and it just stays in there.

Can't be sold. And so the trustee can't get all conservative and put it all in CDs or something.

>> Um what about should I put my house in anything right now or just >> Not now. No.

>> Everything just goes upon death. And then when they both turn 18, then I can restructure everything? >> Every Upon 18, you can dictate that the trust does X. Or once they are 18 and

you're still alive, then you'll change the whole thing.

And decide what you want to do at that point. And you do that based on whether or not they're going to be competent adults and whether this money's going to be a blessing. Cuz if you give money to an incompetent, it's not a blessing.

>> Yes. >> It magnifies their incompetence.

>> Okie doke. >> So that's what we did. You know, so as they grew Now, we're way past that now.

I mean, my youngest is 35.

So, you know, we're way past all that and we're way past the competency question and all those kinds of things.

So, all of our structure today is all

just built around risk management and around keeping the stinking government's hands off of it upon death.

Cuz the stupid government takes 55%

of everything above I think this year it's $28 million or something. So, the death tax, you know, they tax you once while you're alive, they tax you again when you die. So, you spend a lot of money, a lot of time keeping their hands off of it then, also.

And but that's a different discussion than you're worried about today. Right now, you just want to make sure your kids are okay and the stuff is managed well. >> Yeah. And good on you, Mom. You know, great job with your financial situation.

Yeah. wanted to let you know you're a real hero and uh they're going to appreciate that someday. To be a single mom and in your situation, great great job. >> intelligent, intentional, and all of that. There's so much wisdom there. Well done. Stella's in Los Angeles. Hi Stella, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Big fan. Big fan, but don't tell anyone I said that. >> Okay. >> Um we have an 82-year-old neighbor that

wants us to consider using a contract for deed to purchase her home now.

>> not. >> Oh. >> Under no circumstances do you do that.

And I'll explain to you why. >> So she Okay.

>> Okay. >> A contract for deed means the property is in her name.

And when you fulfill the contract >> to do it >> There's a When you fulfill the con >> do it where it's in our name?

>> That's the only thing you can do this that I would do. Um we'll talk through that in a second. Let me finish on the contract for deed. >> Okay. >> So it's in her name and you pay payments and when the amount is paid off, then she transfers title to you.

Okay? Problem is if that person uh falls

asleep at the wheel and hits somebody head-on and gets sued for half million dollars, there's a lien on property that you thought you owned, but it's not in your name, it's in her name. So they put a lien on her property for 500 million dollars. And now you don't ever get this property no matter what happens. Or she forgets to pay the IRS.

She's 82 and she didn't file her tax returns and they put a lien on the property that she owns cuz it's in her name. So everything that she could possibly do to screw up life lands on you after you pay payments on this for 10 years. So not a chance you ever do contract for deed. Very dangerous way to take title.

>> No. >> Good. Well, then it's very easy. She wants to sell it to you and move away or stay in the property? >> No, she wants she wants to live there until she passes and then we'll take the property over. >> Okay, that's very easy. You need to just see a real estate attorney and all you've got to do is just transfer the title and she is she carries back a mortgage against it. You pay the mortgage.

And if she dies, you have to finish paying the mortgage to her heirs, correct?

>> Correct. >> Okay. Or if she dies, the mortgage is forgiven in return for having her and then what she's getting is a life estate.

A life estate. So while she's alive, she can live in the property.

And I would qualify that life estate even further. While she's alive and medically able to live in the property.

So let's say that she ends up in memory care because of it early onset it wouldn't be early onset but dementia, okay?

And it can't live in the property anymore, but then she lives six more years. Meanwhile, the property's sitting there rotting down cuz you can't take it cuz she's still alive.

So if the case she's So a life estate

qualified extra qualification that if she's unable medically to live in the property anymore, it goes ahead and transfers as if she had passed. And and then whatever happens to the mortgage, you guys can negotiate that at that point. But you pay the payments until either she dies or until you pay it off to her kids and the property is in your name the whole time just like you took out a mortgage only the mortgage is held by her.

>> So it's like seller finance.

>> It's exactly what it is.

>> Okay. >> Exactly. Seller finance modified by a life estate with a medical qualification.

>> Fantastic. Thank you so much.

>> protects you and protects her and everybody's going to get a good deal here.

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>> Javier is in San Antonio. Hey Javier, what's up?

>> Good afternoon. Uh so, thanks for taking my call. I took your course um that I took at your local church a year ago at Financial Peace University. Thought it was great. Learned a lot there. Got a lot out of it. Uh but I'm still stuck on steps one and two.

Um there's just some stuff wrong.

Can't save the $1,000 emergency fund mainly because my income is so low. Uh and my debts are too high. I have a one line of credit and two credit cards.

Um So, it's what >> What do you make? >> 70 chips.

It's 59.95 an hour um gross. So, it runs roughly uh 545 uh net

a week. >> Mhm. And how old are you?

>> 41 years old. >> What do you do?

>> I'm a uh technician. So, uh uh low voltage cable installing.

>> Okay. Well, I agree with you. Your job sucks.

What are you looking for What are you looking for to get a better job making twice? Cuz the bad news is you don't make anything. The good news is doubling it wouldn't be hard.

>> Yeah, I I'm I'm wondering like what's the what's the trade that comes to mind?

Don't worry about giving me a right answer. This is a quick exercise. What trade comes to mind when you think about what you do now from a technical standpoint putting in that low the low >> of it. >> cable low voltage cable. What comes to mind as a nice little stroll into a much better paying trade. What comes to mind?

>> Electrician. >> Thank you, Dave.

That's the answer. >> Right. >> So, there's a huge need right now, Javier, across the country and I suspect that San Antonio is the same way and trade school is a lot less time and a lot less money and you might given your current job be

able to get in at a low level and earn your way or somebody pay for you to go to the next level of trade school. So, when we throw that at you, how do you respond to that?

>> I have tried that and have failed multiple times. So, I applied to the local apprenticeship and I scored well on the test, but the interview they rejected me. They took out the system instead. That's what it was like. >> They what? >> Took out the So, in San Antonio there's a local uh uh trade school for people >> I get it, but why did you fail the interview process?

>> I didn't really get any feedback. Um maybe I'm too old. I'm not I'm not sure.

>> How old are you? >> 41. >> 40 41. >> You're not too >> You're not too old.

>> Uh I I I don't really I can't give you a whole lot of feedback on that, although, you know, uh there might be some confidence issues going on. Uh you know, where you have to go in there and kind of say, "Hey, I can I can learn anything. I'm teachable. I'm coachable.

I'm super hungry." Uh do you think you're coming across that way? Yes or no?

>> So, I I was fired from another job a few years ago. I'm probably still carrying that baggage with me.

>> Okay, so you're not confident. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> That's true. >> All right. Can you do the job or not? If somebody took you under their wing and taught you how to be an electrician, could you do it?

>> I could, yeah. >> All right. So, this kind of response here tells me that you just have to get back up on the horse and keep showing up. And you're going to have to deal with those demons, and we all have to deal with those demons. Uh you feel wounded. You feel less than. All of that. But, my friend, you can take control of this entire situation by getting a better paying job.

>> Yeah, so it's about smiling and uh raising your energy level about 200% >> Mhm. >> and going, "I can do this. I want this.

>> Mhm. >> Give me a put me in, coach. Give me a shot. >> Mhm.

>> I'm I'm going to be the best I'm going to be early for work every day. I'm going to leave or late for work every day. I'm going to be the guy that doesn't gripe about anything. I'm going to be the guy that you can get to do anything you need to do you want me sweep the floors, I'll get the floor sweep.

What do you need me to do? You put me in, coach. Give me a shot. And come at this thing with some energy rather than going, "Well, you know, I don't sound like Eeyore in the interview, man.

Just do it. Makes sense. >> Yeah, and I I here's the bottom line. The bottom line is you are correct. It is very difficult to walk the baby steps when your income is at the poverty level.

And so, I want you to think about what I'm going to do with my life. I'm 61. I don't want to be having this exact same problem when I'm I mean I'm 41. I don't have the same problem 20 years when I'm 61. And so, I want different problems. I want a tax problem because I make so stinking much money. That's a new problem. That's a good one.

It's a great problem. And so, um yeah, you know, let's I hate the government cuz I they take all my money cuz I make too much money. And um >> You've been reading my emails, Dave? >> Yeah.

Apparently, yeah. And uh or you've been reading mine. >> I don't know. But, yeah.

>> But, that that you know, that's the thing. You just got to figure out, okay, I'm going to choose my problems and I don't like the one I got, so I want a different problem. And so, I'm going to go stir up some stuff and I'm going to work like a crazy man and I'm going to work weekends and nights. And uh I'm going to raise my energy level and the way my voice sounds even is going to change.

The way you hold your shoulders changes. And all of that is a reflection of got a little swagger back again instead of slouching in uh to the interview. And uh because people are reading all of that. So, Javier, one of the things they tell us and Ken's got all this research and data on interviewing.

lot of job interviews are decided before

the person opens their mouth.

How you walk into the room, how you're dressed, the way you carry yourself,

the way you smile or don't, and you just sit down. And um the you know, cuz the interviewer subconsciously so many times goes, "I wouldn't want to work with this person." Before they even open their mouth.

And so, in 30 or 45 seconds, that's the data, right? >> correct. And understand this, too, about >> about swagger. >> It is. Because they are making a decision not on your ability to just do the electrical work or the plumbing work or the carpentry work. They're making the decision on how are you going to interact with their customers?

>> And and with your team. >> That's right. And so if they feel like you are Eeyore as Dave has so prophetically said here about so many people we get calls from. And we're not judging anybody, we're just we can feel your energy through the phone. Imagine what you're presenting like when you're sitting in front of somebody. And so the issue here is is when you're in a trade, here's what you're looking for. A little bit of enthusiasm, a whole bunch of

hunger. All right? And then the willingness to show up. They know they need to know that they can count on you.

>> You ever look into somebody's eyes and don't see a light?

Like nobody's home and nobody's even coming up the driveway.

I mean, there's no light in there. I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying that's one end of the spectrum when you're interviewing someone. The other end of the spectrum is their eyes are sparkling.

And there's there's a smile and they took a bath this morning before they came to the interview and they took to tucked in their shirt and they didn't wear clothing like they were trying to get in a punk rock band.

Instead, they came like they were trying to get a job. And you know, I mean, this is basic stuff. And and you're not into we we the we people when we go to get people to do business with us in an interview or in a sales situation, we're not entitled to anything.

And and so you've got to think about everything all the variables that are affecting this and then um

the the last part is then in turn with the frequency of your rejections.

>> Yes. >> And so I you know, I think you've been rejected about twice. I want you to be rejected 26,000 times and by then you

will have landed a degree in um in in the medical field or something. I don't know. I mean, you know, you just you got to get back at it. You got to get back after it and keep turning over the rocks.

Keep turning over the rocks. Something will run out. But if you don't turn over a rock, you go, "I once turned over a rock and I got bit. I'm not turning over any more." Yeah, you got to go do it.

>> Yeah. >> It's your only option. Otherwise, you're going to if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. Everybody's It's true of everybody.

So we're just talking to the whole audience right now, Javier, but you're you're getting caught up in that net. So, I got I got faith in you.

>> And one other thing I'd add, because you are employed now and you are doing something with your hands and with your head, what else can you do in San Antonio right now as a

second or maybe third job? Let's not wait until we get the better full-time job. Let's go work a second or third job with that transferable skill and experience because if you were to just double your income an additional $2,000

a month net, that's a game-changer for you. So, don't wait on the full-time job. Go work two and three jobs doing anything you can related to what you know you can do now. That's a huge bridge, by the way. Keep your confidence up. It'll get you some financial momentum until we land that 25, 30, $35,

$40 an hour gig.

>> Yeah. So, that's a good message for everybody when you're in baby step one and two. You turn up the energy.

>> Yeah. >> You you turn up the activity level. You turn up the number of hours and working.

>> Mhm. >> And what'll happen then is you'll start to see get some actual success which will give you some actual swagger and confidence.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Front Row Seat. If you hadn't checked it out on Ramsey Networks, you should. He's my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jared is in Las Vegas, Nevada. Hey Jared, what's up?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I got a quick question for you. I'm in the middle of a high-conflict divorce. We recently sold our marital house. We're 16,000 left in the escrow account.

Uh in the pending process, I'm getting 17, my ex is getting 17. I'm out of money currently. I'm waiting for these further funds to come into my account.

I'm 17,000 or 7,000 in debt from legal

fees, and I no longer have legal counsel for the time being. So, my question is, should I use the remainder of my funds to hire a lawyer and pay off my debt, or should I progress to baby steps and represent myself in court and hope for the best?

>> Uh well, there's nothing to represent. I mean, there's 17 and 17 is already divided. What else is the conflict?

Kids? >> Child custody. Yeah, yes, sir.

>> Okay. Well, you're probably going to lose that if you don't get good representation.

>> I've already the non-custodial parent from temporary orders, so I don't know what else I have to lose.

>> And you don't think that's going to change in court?

>> I don't think so, no, sir.

>> Okay. So, if you're resigned to that, what is there to lose in court?

>> Nothing, just 17,000.

>> Well, no, you're not I mean, that's already determined and split up, isn't it? >> Um it's being paid into So, there was a total 52,000.

Uh we signed an agreement from temporary orders. She got 17, I got 17.

>> Yeah. >> And there's 15 left in the escrow account. >> Okay.

And what's what's supposed to happen?

Does temporary order dictate what happens that escrow account?

>> Um no, the what's left in I mean, yes,

but what's left in the 15 is going to be talked about in our final hearing. Uh it's not scheduled yet.

>> Okay, so you could lose that.

>> Yeah. >> Your half of that.

>> I mean, let's say half of that is yours and half of that's hers, hypothetically.

And if you lost, you would have lost half of that. So, it's $7,000 $7,500 on

the line. Does that sound right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Well, attorney's going to cost you that much.

>> Right. >> Um I don't ever like going into a situation not represented by good, strong counsel.

Um >> Uh-huh. but it sounds like this thing's already run its course and you just need a judge to put a stamp on it.

>> To finalize it. We still need We're separated, but we still need to finalize the divorce. Um I just kind of need >> Is the divorce not filed?

>> Uh it's filed, but we're in the limbo

process with the courts.

>> So, is there a waiting period from filing till declaration and that's what you're calling the limbo period in Nevada?

>> Uh yes, sir. >> Okay. And so, there's a mandatory 90-day cooling down period or something like that.

>> Yeah, I don't know the exact terminology. I do know that we're still legally married, but we have to uh

either go to mediation again or we have to go to trial and then and then the judge will sign the final decree.

>> Yeah.

Okay. Uh So, what would happen if you called her lawyer and said let's go to mediation and wrap this 15 up and come to agreement on everything and sign off and get the judge to sign it?

>> Um I've tried that twice already and

it's resulted in uh failure both times and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees with mediators and attorneys.

>> Yeah, but now we're down to only $15,000 to argue about, right?

>> Financially speaking, yes, but the biggest dispute is child custody.

>> I thought you weren't disputing it. I thought you had said I'm going to lose it.

>> Um >> If you want to fight it, you need a lawyer.

>> Yes, sir.

>> You're going to lose if you don't have a lawyer on child custody. 100% chance.

Yeah, you're going to spend you know, so it's not spending money to get money, it's spending money for my to get access to my own children.

And that's that's money you spend for sure. You'll regret not doing that. Um I

wish I had I wish I'd dropped another five grand or 10 grand in that. Instead of advanced my debt snowball. But if you don't have anything to fight about, if you're saying like look, 90% chance the ruling that's standing now non-custodial is the way it's going to be, I'm going to lose. Then you've already acquiesced that and there's no sense in in paying paying somebody 10 grand to do what you know is already going to happen.

But yeah, I'm going to hire a lawyer if I got a shot at changing the disposition

of the children, for sure.

For sure.

And um But yeah, what you're learning is is divorce and in most cases other than divorce, the lawyers are the only ones that win lawsuits.

And so um And everybody thinks they're going to get something out of these things and they don't. Uh-huh, so it's just it's

kind of ridiculous, but my goodness gracious. I'm sorry.

Sorry you're facing that, but yeah, I if you want to fight about the kids, then you need legal representation.

Otherwise, with what you've described, there's not not enough on the line to cover the attorney's fees. So, I mean, I would call the guy I would just call the attorney up and go, "Hey listen, if I accept the child custody the way it is and we split the we agree to split the 15K, do we have a deal?" That's your mediation. And just call the guy on the phone and do that deal.

But if you're going to fight the kid thing, then you need representation.

So. That's just a practical thing. It's not a legal that's not legal advice. That's just a guy who's dealt with lawyers more than I ever want to wish I had never met one.

Uh Jack is in Miami. Jack, how are you?

>> I am doing better than I deserve, Dave and Kennedy. It's such an honor to get to talk to you guys this afternoon. >> You too. What's up?

>> Okay, so I am a teacher and I just found

out this week I am getting laid off once this summer ends.

Um me and my wife were recently debt-free. We have uh debt-free in the house, have a nice retirement over 800.

And we're building an online radio station. My question is uh she's still working at out of the house. She makes about 75. I made about 65. So we're losing that income. Do I go

full force into building our online radio station or >> Have you made any money at it?

>> Um I've made Well, we started November.

I made about uh 2,500

so far cuz obviously we sell advertising. That's how people That's how we make money. >> Yeah. I've heard I've heard the rumor.

Yeah. >> What kind of radio is it?

>> It's um a country music station playing We play like today's hits, all-time favorites.

And >> need the 60 How much of the 65 that you've been making do you absolutely need to have?

All of it or some of it? >> Well, I mean I mean if we stayed on a tight budget, I we could live off of her income.

>> Well, you're you're going to be on a tight budget. >> Yeah. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket. >> No, I think I would figure out what I want to do with my life um in addition to this and because this right now is a hobby. It's not made money yet. And you're in a highly competitive field where everybody that's breathing has a podcast now.

And so it's not like there's not like there's a lot of choices out there. There's like a bazillion choices out there. So um not against you trying this, but I'm against you leaning on it when it's unproven.

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Chris is with us in Atlantic City. Hi Chris, how are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right, I have uh I guess like a philosophical will question for you.

Um I'm not married, have no kids. I'm

probably not going to get married, probably not going to have any kids. Uh right now my will is set up to give all my stuff to my two nieces, my sister's kids.

And I've been thinking about it and uh

it turns out that there's probably going to be like four people off in the family, all finally their money to these two girls. And each person's going to have probably several million dollars.

And uh I've been thinking about maybe bypassing changing my will to not give it to them, maybe give it to a local charity instead.

But I know that my family's just going to look at it from purely an emotional point of view and be like, "How dare you not give it to the family?" And I thought I'd get a few viewpoints from like money people. To see what you guys think.

>> Mhm.

Well, there's not a morally or spiritually wrong answer

between the two things. You could do either one. It's the money that God has entrusted you to manage and you as you can give it where you see fit or not give it where you see fit. I would not let the family's emotions be my motivator. I would just say, "Okay, what is the right thing to do

in your heart of hearts uh regardless of someone's feelings,

okay? What's the proper thing on principle to do with this?" And it sounds like that's guiding you uh to at least limit how much goes to the nieces. Um how how old are you?

>> I'm 46. They are 7 and 11.

>> Okay. All right.

Because the answer for me, if I'm you, might change over time.

Okay, let me give you an example, okay?

Let's say they get married and they each

have three kids. Now there's six kids one generation down from them.

Um and this and and they're a wonderful family that's contributing to society.

They're not a bunch of entitled screwed up people, right?

Uh then at that at that point you're 66 or 76, you might change it back to give

to that way. So this could this could evolve. And I'm not saying you had to.

I'm just giving ideas, all right? Um but uh and of course you also could do both.

Because you're 46 and you've got how much now? How many millions now?

>> Uh I've got 1.5 now.

>> Okay. Yeah, and so so you'll be dealing with 15 million when you're 70.

>> Yeah. >> And so assuming you keep on the track you're on, and I think you will. You sound like somebody's going to do that. You've done a great job so far.

Congratulations.

Uh and so you could say I'm going to leave this much to this charity, this much to this charity, and this much to the nieces or the great nieces and so forth.

And and so or it might be that you're heavily involved with one of them and the rest of them don't even know your name. Um then you can do that. I mean you you you can do whatever you want to do.

Um and then um you know, at that point uh if you were ill or whatever, at that point I would let someone in the family know. But I'm not really going to have emotional discussions with a bunch of people who really don't have a say in this. And and you know, and we're not unless you're ill today, I'm not going to fret about having a big long discussion.

I generally tell people, you know, if you're going to make somebody mad with your will, go ahead and tell them while you're alive. That's that's a fine thing to do. In this case, I don't know why you would bother to stir it up. It's just none of their business.

>> Well, I I don't think any of them are like a a wrong decision. I just think it would make more impact because my money would just be thrown in a pile of other money in the end.

>> Well, I I would challenge that idea of impact because if you drop 15 million

into the pile of money with other millions, and these uh young people by then are not young people, they have been trained and they're high-quality people, uh they'll leverage that for more impact than a charity might.

>> Well, and I'm I'm kind of questioning their money managing abilities when they grow up cuz they're probably going to be getting it from their mother who is not too good at it. >> Well, I don't know. I mean, we we they're seven. I don't know that yet.

But um so, you can do that, too. That that's okay. None of this is wrong.

Um you know, so you can decide what you want to do, and uh but I would I would be open to two things. I'd be open to changing it as it evolves, and I would be open to um

it not necessarily being all or nothing.

That there could be some of each.

And uh just kind of mix that in, and that's just gives you a lot of it gives you a lot of freedom to think about this and not fret about this.

>> Yeah. I I'm not really fretting about it. >> if you said, "I'm going to put it all in their name today," and then the 12-year-old gets into drugs, you know, then I'm and I'm all or nothing, then I'm going to be fretting about it cuz I got to move it back out.

I got to change it back.

>> Yeah, I I think there's something going on in your gut, you know, that's led you to this phone call. I I just think before you even choose a charity, I think you need to get involved in some causes, get really intimately involved to where you know how those organizations are run, you know, not just because oh, it's a good cause, you know, and it's not going to my nieces who don't need it like it There needs to be a pretty strong why, in my opinion. Now again, there's nothing wrong. Dave said it well.

>> Yeah. And uh to assume that a godly family managing God's money in a godly way has less impact than a charity is an incorrect assumption.

As a matter of fact, the family will do a much higher impact than a charity because there's no overhead.

Matt is with us in Buffalo. Hi, Matt.

How are you?

>> I'm better than I deserve, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh um so, I make between about 70 90 uh

thousand a year uh depending on my bonus yearly. I have about $14,000 in credit card debt with a across two different credit cards. Um approximately 14,000 in student loan debt. Um so, I guess my question is I have about $20,000 liquid right now. Um my question

is should I just pay off the credit cards in a lump sum um knowing that that's probably going to tank my credit score. Um I'm trying to buy a house within the next year.

>> Okay. Um can you be completely debt free if you write all those checks?

Credit cards and everything?

>> So, it would be No, not entirely. I would still have the student loan um at least a portion of it and then my car payment, which is not really much. >> Okay. All right. Well, number one, we would tell you to be debt free and have an emergency fund before of 3 to 6 months of expenses before you talk about buying a house. So, that means you're not buying a house in the next year.

>> Okay. >> And that's means it's going to take 2 years. So, what I would do is become completely debt free as fast as I possibly can.

Zero activity of any kind on your credit

for 6 months to a year will give you a zero credit score and you can do manual underwriting with Churchill Mortgage and you'll get the same rate as you would get if you had an 800 score.

But right now you're broke and in debt.

Right now you're broke and in debt and your credit score is what puts you there. >> Yeah, I'm sitting around like a a 690 right now, so not too great.

>> No, it's well because you're deeply in debt, you have no money and you know, you you've not been doing a good job with your money. And now you're starting to. So, congratulations.

>> Yeah. >> But yeah, I'm cutting up all the credit cards and I'm going to list my debts smallest to largest. I'm going to use 19,000 of the 20,000 towards that goal and then I'm going to be on the beans and rice, rice and beans budget. I'm going to clear up the rest of these debts immediately and then I'm going to start stacking cash for my emergency fund and stacking cash for my down payment.

determinable is what they call it, an ND. Which is what mine has been for 38

years.

>> It's lots of dumb decisions from when I was a kid that >> Yeah. >> know, been catching up to me now.

>> And and so let's not let's not worship at the altar of the great FICO in order to do something like buy a house before you're ready to buy a house. So, let's just get this stuff in the right order and this things take care of themselves would be the right way to flow this out.

And so, folks you need to remember that there's one way you get a credit score and that's borrow money. There's one reason to get a credit score and that's borrow money. And so, what have we been taught? All of America's been taught, go get a debt so that you can go get a debt so that your credit score will go up so that you can go get a debt so that your credit score will go up so that you can go get a debt so that your credit score will That's all this is for.

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One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they are winning. Fan quote just came in.

Dave, I love this EveryDollar app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day. We've had zero money fights because there's full transparency. We are on the same page and winning. Hey, I love that. You can do this too, folks. You can take control of your money, change your family tree, live like no one else, work the Ramsey plan.

We'll coach you along the way. It's all built in to EveryDollar. Download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play. Jennifer is in Anaheim, California. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> Hi, very good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, um I'm kind of wondering if I should

um consolidate my federal student loans into this one payment, and then also refinance my auto loan. Um I have a really high interest rate cuz I've been living paycheck to paycheck forever. And then I recently in uh January just got a raise and practically doubled my salary. So now I have a lot more >> That's awesome. What do you make now?

>> Um 117,000 a year.

>> Awesomeness. How much do you owe on this stupid car?

>> 8,000. >> Well, that's not bad. Knock it out. Just pay it off. >> No.

>> You make a hundred thousand dollars.

Just pay it off.

>> Yeah, that's yeah, true.

>> No, really. Not yeah, really do it.

>> Okay. >> So I mean like I mean why wouldn't you have the money if you just doubled your pay? Why wouldn't you have the money in a month and a half, two months to pay that car off?

>> Well, my current I'm sharing an apartment right now. My current you know, cuz I had to save on rent. My current rent >> in July.

>> Okay. >> again? >> So stay in that situation till you get out of debt.

>> Well, I would have to stay here another year, and I really don't want to sh- I want to move into my own place. My own place would only be >> Yeah, you also want to be out of debt and quit being broke.

>> True. >> Which one do you want more?

I'm staying in there for another year.

>> Hm. >> Pay pay that car in two months. And what was the other debt? Your student loans you're trying to How much do you have in student loans?

>> 55,000. >> Awesome. So, you could be like debt-free completely in like 15 or 16 months if you stayed another year in that situation.

You pay off the car and the student loans.

And then the interest rate really doesn't matter.

>> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's true.

>> Live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans. Don't go out to eat. Don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. Don't go on vacation. Work all the time. Live for one thing for 14 months, and that is to take all 100% of your raise and put it

on these debts, and you'll be debt-free in 14 months.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> That math works. It works a lot better than trying to refinance your way out of debt, which doesn't work.

>> Right. Right.

>> What's the interest rate on your federal student loans?

>> Um like about 2%.

>> Well, refinancing's not going to be a good idea cuz you're going to get a current rate, which is going to be a lot more.

>> Well, yeah, I I I kind of just wanted to get a consolidation. >> I know if you consolidate it if you consolidate it, it raises the rate.

Cuz you're refinancing. There is no consolidation on federal student loans. There's only refinancing.

And you get You get to do that one time, and you do it at prevailing rates. And in your case, it's going to increase the rates. So, the fact that you have four student loans or eight student loans versus one that total up to 55 does not change that we just need to pay off 55.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> And so, And you got a great interest rate on that. So, yeah, let's that Let's just leave that alone. And how many different loans are there?

>> Uh unfortunately, there's like 13.

>> Perfect. No, that's really good. I like that. So, and the car interest rate's like crazy, right?

>> It's 23%. >> Oh my gosh. All right. So, what what what we normally teach is to list your debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and that would be listing your 13 student loans out, and then you probably your car is going to be your largest debt, and that would make it last.

I'm probably going to flip that in this case.

And then list your 13 smallest to largest. What's your smallest one?

>> Uh yeah, I did that actually. I use your EveryDollar app, so I actually listed them all in that. My smallest one um is

uh like $1,000. >> Yeah, so see that's going to be gone.

>> Right. >> It's like a mosquito.

>> Mhm. >> Swat it. And then what's the next one?

>> Um it is

like 1,500. And then they kind of go up a little bit. My my Yeah, my largest my largest one um I I think is like 9,000.

>> Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm going to go at Can you knock that car out in 2 months if you do nothing but the car?

4,000 a month? >> I Yes. >> Okay. If you can do that, then let's do that, and then let's list these others.

And you're going to get so much emotional momentum A getting rid of the 23%, and then B knocking off 1,000, 1,500, and they're just going to start They're just going to start And all of a sudden you're going to look up, and you're going to have like three left.

>> Mhm. >> Like by I bet you by I bet you by

I mean I I don't know the exact numbers here, but I'm going to give you an estimate. I would say by November you're going to have three left.

And that's going to make you feel like like you're large and in charge cuz you are. >> Mhm. >> Your confidence is going to go up. >> Exactly. And that's my only That's my only debt. I don't have credit cards. I don't have anything else. That's my only debt. >> What is your car payment?

>> It's 318 a month. >> All right, 318 a month and then how much are you saving by staying with that roommate not going out on your own?

>> A thousand dollars a month. >> Yeah. >> So that's $1,300. I just want to leave you with that number as to why you need to wait 12 more months. When you start to get gripy and I understand it not wanting to live with somebody, but you're you're hanging on for 12 more months, but you're doing it for a $1,300

raise cuz you're going to knock out that that car so quickly. Now all of a sudden you're attacking all this. You need to have that mindset.

>> Yeah, so that decision alone pays off the first two car first two student loans that month. >> That's right. >> Yes. Yeah, true.

>> That's that's why we went there so fast.

>> Mhm. >> And because because we've ridden this truck before. Okay. So and the thing I

wanted you to do is what I did when I looked when I was cleaning up my mess many many many many moons ago, I kept looking at something stupid I had done or a situation I'd put myself in and I used it not as shame or guilt, but as motivation. I It pissed me off.

I got mad. >> Mhm. >> And I want you to look at that 23% that time that you got yourself in a pinch and you got screwed on a car. >> Yes. >> And you let it happen. And I want you to get mad at that. So mad that 14 months

from now your your friends are going to think you joined a cult cuz all you do is get out of debt.

>> Yes, the Ramsey cult. I love it.

>> Yeah. And I want you to win. Cuz here's the thing, that's only a year and some change and your whole life is going to be different after that. Cuz you're resetting all these grooves in your brain. All the neuroplasticity is resetting. And so you're never going to be the same again. It's not only you're not only who the fact that you get out of debt, it's who you become during this 14 months

that's different than the you version that bought the 23% car.

And that person's dead and gone.

And now there's a new version of you that's going forward, and I'm so proud of you. And we're going to help you. You're on the EveryDollar app. We'll send you a copy Total Money Makeover, and you call us back if you get tired and you get down, we'll we'll jack you up and pump you up again cuz I think you got the stuff, kiddo.

I think you're going to knock this thing out.

>> Yeah, there's no question. I'm sitting here listening, and I'm just thinking of the momentum theorem. And I'm going to tee you up to give it to people who are new cuz there's a lot of new people joining all the time. >> We're going to send her a copy of the book. >> That's great. >> Okay, we'll send her a copy. The momentum theorem is focused intensity FI over time, over T. FI over time.

FI over T, focused intensity over time multiplied by large G, God and his

blessings. When you're faithful in the little things, he'll give you more to manage.

>> Yeah. >> He will not give you more to manage when you're disorganized, unwilling to sacrifice, and unwilling to hard work hard. It's in the scriptures.

It's very clear. Focused intensity over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable

momentum.

>> Danny is in Minneapolis. Hi Danny, how are you? >> Good, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I was calling because my 15-year-old son and I have had a debate and of course we need Dave Ramsey show to settle it. Um so, my son Grady um turned 16 in July

and he is adamant that he wants to go get a full-time job at our local hardware store the second the day he turned 16 and I on the other hand have said, "Listen buddy, you are going to be working for the next 50 years of your life. Let's just have one more summer where you can be carefree." What is the right answer and I have a feeling I know the answer already.

>> Uh it Where's Where's his dad?

>> Um his dad is around. He He Yeah, his

dad's here. Yeah. >> You're You're married?

>> Yep. Yep, of course. >> Okay. And what's his dad say?

>> Um his dad says he sees it both ways, which I think is his politically um appropriate term to not make his wife mad at him. >> Oh. >> Exactly. I can tell you exactly that's what's going on. All right. Let the kid work, Mom. Back off.

>> I disagree. I would I think the I think the answer is both. >> Oh. Okay. >> I think he works some.

>> Okay. >> Maybe more than you want him to, but less than he wants to.

Full-time is different. I don't know if he needs to work 40 hours a week at 16 years old, but if he works 3 days a week or 4 days a week at the hardware store and learns to have customer interactions and learns to have a boss and that might not be reasonable and learns to count the appropriate amount of screws in a bin and whatever else he's going to be doing at the hardware store, right? And yeah, I I think work is always good.

Teach your kids to do hard things.

>> Yep, absolutely. And that's something that I think that Okay, I had him sorry.

>> No, I I I don't want to beat a dead horse. It's one of the few times I I I I actually disagree. I think if a kid wants to work, let him work. And and you

you've given your opinion. I don't think that your opinion is wrong, but I think that at this stage, if this young man is saying, "I want to go work," he's got his reasons. And I'd let him do it. And if he finds that >> Well, why why what is what is motivating him?

>> So, that's what he just really wants to work at this this hardware store in town. It's It's really funny and I should have started with this, but like currently for the last probably three, maybe four summers he has worked till like the end of the summer for a local farmer where he goes out and works, you know, three, four hours a day and then he goes to the the little lady down the street and mows her lawn for 20 bucks and a bag of cookies. And I mean, he's always doing things like that.

>> Yeah, but why does he want to work full-time at the hardware store?

>> Uh I think he just thinks it's going to be a cool job. >> Okay. He thinks he he he looks at this as a as a way to make some money and he he and he thinks it's going to be fun.

>> Yep, and he's really good about saving money. He doesn't buy like he doesn't care about name brands. He doesn't, you know, I've always I've always said that

his job is to be a kid and like he is a three-sport athlete. He is on the honor roll. Um he's just a really good kid all around. >> does him working at the hardware store keep any of that really from happening?

>> Uh see, that's what I worry about is I think >> No, I'm not No, don't worry about it. Think about it.

>> Yeah. >> Doesn't really keep any of that from happening. >> It doesn't, no. He would be really good with >> has Here's what I'm hearing. He's Now I'm even more entrenched in my opinion, which is right.

He Listen, this kid has self-selected

throughout his life. I know people like this. >> I'm a nerd like that. >> He likes to work. He likes to be busy.

>> I've always liked to work like that. >> the same way and I I will just say that um I I don't think you're going to change this. In fact, I think you have a little bit of fear in this because you've watched this young man be really serious compared to most kids his age his whole life. And I think you wonder, is he ever going to stop to smell the roses? And I think what you may be missing, Mom, and you're amazing by the way.

>> I love this discussion. This is a great discussion. >> I think that this kid is smelling the roses. He He's on the farm working 3 to 4 hours

a day while being a three three sports stud and crushing it in his academics.

He's got a different motor than most people. And I'm sitting next to a guy who I have actually vacationed with and he's going he's going non-stop. I was at his lake house one time and I was exhausting watching Dave relax.

And And And by the way, his family will tell you and I say that with love, but it's true. He's got a motor that most

people don't have. I could name two or three other well-named men, I won't, who I've worked for that have the same motor. And all I'm saying is I think you're a good mom, but I think your son has got his own motor and in this case he's not doing anything that is anyway suppressing his desire. I think he's fulfilling his desire.

I think this guy's going to be a multi-millionaire entrepreneur and provide jobs and I'd say let him go, Mom. And if when he gets to be saying, "I think I'm working too much." Then you come in and say, "Well, buddy, you're only 16." Why don't you do something fun for 2 weeks? You know, I I just think this kid's wired differently and that's why I said what I said. >> He gets great joy from this.

That's what we're hearing. >> Oh, it's so obvious.

>> He's helping the farmer for 3 to 4 hours, then he goes and helps the old lady cut her lawn for $20 and cookies.

This kid is wired to do stuff.

>> Yeah, he's a doer. He gets crap done.

So, I like him. Yeah. But, I I think he's I I I think what um Danny as someone that's similar, I get great joy from working. That's why I'm 65 years old. I'm a multimillionaire. I don't need to work and I come down here and do this cuz I get great joy from this.

>> He's got to sit next to me, folks. Only joy brings him into this.

>> Ken, you're just you're you're joy personified. >> But, the uh but I mean that that's the thing. You you do get joy from getting things done,

from traction, from accomplishment um more than I get joy of um

I I have never in my life gone to the beach and sat

in the on the chair. >> No. >> I just that does not bring me joy.

>> Oh, I know. >> Some people call that smelling the roses. I that's not roses I'm smelling.

So, I don't it's not not for me. I mean, it's okay if you want to. I'm not mad at you. You're not wrong, but I'm also not wrong because that's Yeah, I'm with you, Danny Ken on that. And And Danny, I I love that you're a great mom and you're concerned about his balance and mental health and all of that. Just make sure he's getting joy out of this and that he's not being driven by some demon.

If he's being driven by some kind of performance accomplishment demon or something, then yeah, I might I might back him off. I might put a bridle on that. But, if the kid just likes getting stuff done and he likes learning things and he likes engaging and he's got a like Ken said, he's got a big motor, I'd I'd I'd tune that motor up and let it run.

>> Mhm. >> That's what I would do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and by the way, great job, Mom and Dad. >> Yeah, it's just >> That doesn't happen by accident.

>> news is they're both sitting there talking about it and they're having a discussion and they're trying to look at life with a good lens and wisdom and I don't think there's any wrong actors in this discussion. Um it's just good healthy people and um yeah, it's I got to tell you I would rather hire him and have to talk him into slowing down than hiring some wet wood and trying to get it burning.

>> It's so true. >> I've hired some wet wood you can't get burning no matter how much gas you put on it. He's very employable for the rest of his dadgum life.

>> Well, he's going to employ a lot of people. Mark it down.

>> Yeah, he's not ever going to say take it easy and mean it.

>> It's so true. >> Oh, it's so fun. It's so fun. Yeah, we need more of him out there actually in this world. So it's a good thing. But yeah, it just needs to come from a place of health and a place of wisdom, a place of um

uh you know, today when Sharon and I vacation um you know, we special I don't want to be sitting in XYZ city around the world

and have missed it because I needed to sit there and rest.

I'm going to go out and >> Right. >> thing I came all the way over here to see this thing. Let's see it. >> That's right. >> So we're you know, so we're like wearing the tour guide out there exhausted, you know. So um but that you know, I didn't come over here for that. I could have stayed home if I wanted to rest.

>> me of our all-time favorite tour guide in Philadelphia. That poor guy couldn't breathe. We were walking so fast.

>> Philadelphia. >> Remember that guy? >> Yes, that guy. That was >> keep up with us. >> He's all-time worst tour guide we've ever had. >> Yeah, that's a story we can't share but boy it was a great memory. But you know

all-time all-time greatest. But you know, there's something to people parents if you've got a kid that's wired that way uh put some coals on that fire.

>> It's a thoroughbred. >> Let them go. >> It's a thoroughbred let them >> Let them go. >> Let them run. It's good. I love it.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ralph is in

Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Ralph, what's up?

>> Uh thank you for taking my call, Dave.

>> Sure. What's How can we help?

>> Well, uh I'm trying to get to a million dollars before I croak.

Um I don't know anybody anything. Everything has been paid for. Um So, I'm I'm just trying to get some advice and how can I invest? I've got about 42,000 in a brokerage. I got about

40,000 in the bank. And I've got a 40,000 in emergency fund.

And I've got other things that have value. So, I'm just trying to figure out how I can get there. I watch your shows.

>> Mhm. >> And you talk about growth stock mutual funds. >> Mhm. >> But everything I look at's paying two and three and four percent. Not paying, you know, 10 or 11. So, I don't know. I need advice. >> Okay. Well, growth stock mutual funds aren't paying 2%. That would be

CDs and money market funds. That's how your savings and that kind of thing. So, uh other things that I own. Do you own a piece of real estate?

>> I own the house I'm living in, yeah.

>> Uh what's it worth? >> I would I have no I have no payments.

>> What what what's the home worth? >> What's it worth?

>> Well, this I had two estimates. One between 489 and 517.

>> Okay. So, let's call it we'll just round it, call it a half million dollars, okay? So, you're halfway there with that. >> Yeah. >> And how old are you? >> Yeah. 87. >> Okay. And what's your current income?

>> Uh I I get railroad retirement. I don't get social security. And that comes out to $39,000 a year. That's That's $3,245 a month. >> Okay. Are you living on that?

>> Oh, yeah. I I live about I take out about $600

a month and I live on that and then I I have some I sold rest to save in my checking. >> Mhm. >> And um

So, I got some bills I do have public credit cards. I do not I always pay off all the debt. I don't pay it I don't pay any interest. Uh and I have an IRA

that's worth like 96,314.

>> Mhm. >> Uh >> What is that invested in?

>> Uh right now it's in getting getting in cash. >> Okay. >> The IRA gives me about $560

a year a month.

>> But you don't need it.

>> Oh, I don't need it. No, it's just it's just growing. I just have to take out my my what I have to take out every year.

>> Okay. All right. So, between the 40, the

42, and the 96, that puts you I'll I'll just use round numbers. Let's call it $150,000, okay?

If $150,000 were invested

at around 10% as an example, here's how

the math works. It will double every 7

years. So, it would be 350 when you're 89 I'd be 300 when you're 89, and it would be 600 when you're 96.

That's if you add nothing to it and it were invested that way. What is the uh

need to have a million dollars before you die? What's the >> Well, I guess it's >> Just a goal to set or is there something going on or >> Yeah, just a goal. >> Okay. Okay.

>> You know, my wife has got >> the goal is then can I How can I better use my money to have the do the best possible job of managing God's money, then I think I can help you with that.

>> Well, my family's lived long lives.

>> Okay. You might make it then. All right.

Cool. It's just a math thing, right?

>> I have some other I I have some other stuff. I have about 30 3,000 in silver.

>> Okay. >> Okay, that I bought many years ago.

>> Okay. >> I collect old scale trains since I was a little boy and I went to work for the railroad. >> Mhm. >> I worked on the railroad. >> Mhm. >> And I figured that's worth about 25,000.

>> Have you got family?

>> I'm sorry? >> You have family?

>> Yes, I have three children, two boys and a girl. Or I should say two two adults and two one female adult. >> Okay. Right. And um do And do they have children?

>> Yes, I have six granddaughters out of the three of them. >> Okay. All right. There's no chance I'm selling those trains. They need to go to your grandkids.

Grandpa spent his life working on the railroad and grandpa has the best train collection in the world. They need to go to those kids. Not that those little girls are necessarily going to play with them, but they may want to leave them to their sons. That is a family heirloom, sir. You do not get rid of that.

>> Yeah. And I also um I have a a I have a truck and two cars.

The the truck is a 2000 Dodge and it'll be an antique here in probably the

2 years when it gets 25. Everybody likes

it and I'm trying to get 25,000 out of that. I have a Sonata that's a 15 that I

bought used and I have

a Corolla. >> Well, anything that you Anything on this whole list that you've given me that you don't want to keep around and you would rather have in investments, you could roll all of it into a simple mutual fund investment with a SmartVestor Pro and it would all the money would do better there than it'll do in silver, than it'll do in the checking account, than it'll do in the $96,000 sitting in cash. All of those

things are underperforming by at least 10% a year. But I'm not It's all It's okay if you don't do anything with it, Ralph, but you called and asked me how to maximize and so what I would tell you to do just go to ramseysolutions.com and get with a SmartVestor Pro, sit down with someone has the heart of a teacher, gently, carefully decide yourself what

you're comfortable with investing, which items you're and are you comfortable with liquidating and moving into a little bit slightly more

aggressive investment. And if if that's your goal and that's what you want to do, then you can do that with every one of those things and I personally I'm 65. I would personally

be very comfortable doing all of those things myself at 82.

Uh but I want you to be comfortable with it cuz it's you. And so you need to sit down with somebody and and walk through that and say, "Okay, now I want to keep my silver." Okay. I don't necessarily agree with that, but if you want to, it's okay. Or Dave, I want to keep that much in cash, extra cash. Okay, that's fine.

But you're making that decision then and every one of those things are earning 2%

instead of 10 or 12.

And and that's what you can do. But there's no great crisis in anything you're talking about. Other than I would strongly advise you to keep that train set.

>> I agree. My granddaddy also collected trains and and just gorgeous gorgeous.

My dad has it and I'm getting it eventually and it's it's special. I mean that stuff is so well handcrafted. I mean it's it's nice.

>> Yeah. >> Well, and the fact that he worked at the railroad. >> That's it's just part of the story.

>> It's one of the things. I mean I'm I'm getting old. I'm thinking about things like that that the grandkids it's not a dollar bill they need. It's they need to remember something. This is what the old man represented and this item reminds me

of that's what he did, how he did it.

And this man's Ralph has lived a great life. >> Fantastic. >> Way to go, Ralph. You did good, man.

And you're you know, you're you're able to eat on what your income is and and you you do anything you want to do. You got more cars than you have drivers.

Life's good, you know. >> off of $600 a month. And by the way, comfortably. He's not griping.

>> Didn't hear any I didn't hear any whining. None at all.

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can." It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If your private student loans are in default, that's a mess. But, Yrefi can help you clean it up. Yrefi helps borrowers refinance with

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Might not be in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Spencer in Alaska. We have our emergency fund in a high-yield savings account, but have a question about what to do with the accrued interest. Do we keep the interest in the account or would it be a better idea to take out just the interest accrued for the year and put it toward our mortgage? We have 65,000 in

the HYSA and that is plenty for our

6-month emergency fund.

>> Yeah, I've never heard that question before. I don't think there's any wrong thing by doing that.

I've never pulled that out. I just let it sit in ours.

>> Because it's not enough to worry about. >> It's not a whole bunch.

>> I mean, if it's making 3% it's 1,800 bucks.

I mean, 1,800 bucks is not changing either thing substantially.

65 + 1,800 is not much more and 1,800

towards your mortgage is nice, but uh I think Spencer's a nerd.

>> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, um Yeah, I'm with you, Ken. I think either way is fine. There's not a right or wrong answer.

It wouldn't be something you slap your hand on the table and say you're under the stupid column if you did one and the smart column if you did the other. Um Uh yeah, I I have not touched mine. I'm just trying to think what I've actually done. I just never thought of it.

It's not enough money >> Right. >> uh percentage-wise in the situation to think about.

fund. >> Mhm. >> And if you're being real intense and really detailed about throwing everything at the mortgage, pulling that interest off and looking at it but throwing it at the mortgage is just fine. Um

Uh the other thing you could do is actually adjust the 65.

>> Mhm. >> That may be a little much. Um Uh you

know, 3 to 6 months you've got a 6-month emergency fund. So, that means you need uh what?

$10,500 a month to live on for 6 months?

That's a lot.

>> Yeah. >> It's a heavy It's a pretty heavy emergency fund. So, um yeah, I might back that down to 50.

And uh just I I I don't know why you've got $10,000 a month in expenses.

Uh that that's a little And if you're down to only the mortgage, you don't have any debt except the mortgage and it takes you $10,000 a month to live.

Really? Okay. I mean, Alaska's expensive, but I don't know. Anyway, think that part through, but yeah, I I I'd probably pull the money off cuz you're worried about it and just throw it at the debt and I might consider lowering the emergency fund and throw it at the uh at the debt as well. Get Get rid of that mortgage.

I'm with you, brother. Emily's in San Diego. Hi, Emily. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. I'm excited to be talking to you guys. >> You too. What's up?

>> Um so, basically, my question is would it be wise to consider moving

to another state due to the financial reasons?

>> Tell us more. Moving where for what reason? >> Um just like another state. Like I was looking at Iowa or like Oklahoma. Just somewhere where it's the cost of living is a lot cheaper.

Um but yeah, I do have a background a little bit, so >> that'd be helpful. >> Yeah. Basically, I was laid off from my job

last month and I was working part-time while I was while I'm in school to become a mental health counselor.

But and the job was in that field and I

didn't really like the job that much, so I basically, when I got laid off, kind of had an existential crisis where I am like

basically, my think I'm thinking about dropping out of the program and so and then so I can just work full-time. Um but it's really hard to find a job right now in San Diego, a full-time job.

I can probably find something part-time.

Um and I'm living with my dad right now.

I'm 32.

>> And and how are you paying the bills outside of the the this part-time job?

Who Who are you living with? What's What's going on there? >> Yeah, I live with my dad, so that's another reason why I'm like want to move out. Um I haven't lived with him for my whole Like I've lived outside I've lived on my own before, but I had some like

mental health issues that I was dealing with, so I had to move back home with him. >> Okay. So >> stable again. >> All right.

So let's go back to the future. So have you determined it sounds like you've determined you don't want to be in the mental health space as a professional. >> Yes. >> Okay.

It's great news because we've at least said, "Okay, we don't need to spend any more time in school, any more effort on that." So now we've got to we've got to take some time to get clear and we're going to help you with that.

get some independence so you're out of dad's house and we just can breathe, we can pay the bills to get us to a place where we can actually be clear and figure out our future. >> Yeah, if you got a job today in Oklahoma City, how would you get there? >> Yeah.

I would drive. >> I mean, you got money to get a rent a rent apartment?

>> Um so yeah, that's another thing. Like I have some student loan debt, but I do have about $15,000 saved.

>> Okay. So you've got some cash to make the move and get established in another market. Any idea what you want to do with your future?

>> Um I think I want to go into administrative work because I've done that in the past and I kind of liked it, so >> Great. >> I think that would be a good move. >> Okay. And so have you thought about or looked into what is the top of that world look like?

In other words, a job that's making the most amount of money you can make as an administrative person. That could either be project management as you move up the level, it could be an executive assistant for a a very high-end uh

executive where you're talking six figures. Have you mapped that out about what all I could do within administrative work?

>> Uh I've looked into a little bit, yeah.

>> Good. That's the rest of you you got a homework assignment to look at somebody like you who enjoys administrative work.

Let's just simplify it by they dot the eyes, they cross the tees, they get a lot of enjoyment out of execution, right? I get a checklist, it's clear, and then I get it done, and that really fires me up. So, with growth, experience, and skill acquisition over time, you can make six figures with that skill set and that enjoyment. So, you've got to start right now at 32, let me see

all the different paths out there in the grand world of jobs where I could go.

And you really got to do that now so that we go, "Okay, I I think that I could be very excited about. What does it look like to get qualified to move up?" And so, we get a plan. We don't just decide to go to Iowa or Oklahoma, right? >> Right.

>> Because that I think >> being willing to move to another state with a lower cost of living associated with a new job might be a very wise move. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> We need to be aiming at something a little bit more specific rather than let's run to something instead of from San Diego. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> And leverage dad. Leverage dad right now for some safety so that I can A get some stability and pay off this student loan.

>> Yeah, for a short period of time. I mean, short But I would like for I would like for you to get to find something in another city >> Yeah, and move. >> next 2 weeks and move. >> Yeah, that'd be great. >> But I want you to move to something, not from something.

And if you don't have a job lined up and you just load up the car, you're what's known as homeless.

>> Right.

>> So, I don't want to do that. So, we need to, you know, I I I I I'm with you on the existential crisis and the reset. I think all of that sounds solid.

It sounds It sounds like you've really processed that through. I didn't I didn't hear anything there that gave me pause. Um I just want you to land on something that is very intentional. The power of intentionality.

And winning is not an accidental exercise. It's a series of intentional exercises. And so winning at your career, putting together a quality life, a sustainable situation, um in this case starts with an income.

>> Yeah. And hey, we want to give you so hang on the line. Chris is going to get you a copy of find the work you're wired to do. Comes with the get clear career assessment. Spend 20 minutes on the assessment and about an hour on the book and it's going to get you way further down the line so that you have some clarity of those options within that administrative detail space.

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a

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>> Hey guys, have you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in on the show?

Just asking the question.

Would you like to be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour and going to be doing the Ramsey Show live. You experience live Q&A, crowd debates,

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ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes.

Jessica's in Rochester, New York. Hi Jessica, how are you?

>> I'm doing great, Mr. Ramsey.

Uh thank you so much for having me on the show. I can't really believe anyone's here right now. >> Well, we're glad you're here. How can we help? >> Thank you. Um so, I uh was blessed to

read your book um a year and so, in July, uh we got my

husband and I um got the EveryDollar app and it has completely changed our life.

Um when we actually calculated all our debt, we were almost half a million >> Oh. >> in debt. And uh we didn't even realize it. Like, our income is great uh and we didn't realize um like what was happening. So, um we have actually since July paid off $120,000 of debt. >> Good for you. >> So we're in really good shape.

I have a couple questions. Um, last year

we made 268,000.

>> Good for you. >> Um My husband and I both have full-time jobs and I actually work two full-time jobs and then I pick up hours at the hospital on the weekend.

And uh and we've been really gazelle intense. >> Yeah. >> I say thanks to live. >> Now the 500,000 did that include a mortgage or that was all non-mortgage debt?

>> No, that wasn't our mortgage. We had a home equity loan and then cars.

>> Our mortgage right now is 90,000.

>> Okay, and that's in that half a million.

>> Yes. >> So that's a baby step six. Okay, so you got 410,000 of which you've already paid off 150.

Way to go.

>> Yes, thank you. Yeah, we um I just had a

couple questions about the thing like I

I know I'm not supposed to, but I wanted to know if I can do a few things out of order. Um, so like right now we owe 6,000 dollars

in taxes cuz we didn't like account for how much money we were going to make.

>> Mhm. >> So we already have that in the bank. So we just have to file our taxes for that.

We have a home improvement loan that we're going to do next and then we have two car leases that we are uh just about

ready and then we're going to pay cash for the Ram Z cars.

>> Good.

>> So then once those leases are done, those will be cash. >> Good.

>> But then we have a 100,000 dollar home equity loan. >> Mhm. >> And I know I've talked I listened to some of you all have talked about sometimes you can put the home equity in with the mortgage at step six.

>> Mhm. >> Um, our home equity loan when we did that last year, we actually did it for like a 5-year plan um cuz I wanted to be I wanted to get the best interest rate and I wanted it to be done as quickly as possible.

So, we're already a year into that.

Um so, I wasn't sure if I could kind of wait uh to then be able to save up our

savings instead of attacking the 100,000 in home

equity. Um or not. That's like my first question.

>> So, your household income is 268. We always say if the home equity loan is less than half your annual income, it ought to be in baby step two. So, but your 268 includes working three jobs.

>> Yes, I work well, I have technically I have four jobs. >> I know, but I'm saying technically your 268 is not your real income. This is a temporary spike because you're working with gazelle intensity. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, if we put your income at 200,000, then the home equity loan could roll to baby step six. And I think that's fairly safe. So, it's okay if you roll it to six. Here's the danger.

How old are you?

>> Uh my husband and I are 40.

>> Okay.

Does it feel like to you that COVID was yesterday? It feels like it to me.

>> Well, I work in health care, so I see >> Does it feel like emotionally that that 5-year period of time was yesterday?

That went really fast, didn't it?

>> Yep.

>> That's how fast a stupid home equity loan is going to go, too.

And it's going to come up and punch you in the face if you don't get rid of it.

>> Yes. >> 5 years is a heartbeat. That's my point.

>> Yes. >> So, you got to attack it as soon as you get that emergency fund done and y'all start putting 15% away into your retirement. You guys are going to have to lean on that stinking home equity loan cuz that 5 years is going to come up and bite you in the butt.

>> Yes, agreed.

>> And I don't want you to lose your house because of this discussion.

Um I'm sorry, what was the question?

>> I don't want you to lose your house because of this discussion.

>> Oh, no. No, we won't. >> Well, I don't know. No, no. I lost my job and the home equity loan came due and we didn't have it paid off, Dave. So, I got foreclosed on.

>> Well, we're great I'm grateful that we're actually paying like the home equity our monthly payment will be done in five uh years. >> All right. That helps. Okay. >> We're not like waiting to pay on that.

We're paying that every month as part of our baby step two. >> All right. So, it's not got it's not got a balloon or call on it.

It's going to It's going to amortize. It's not got a balloon or a call. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> That helps, but you see my point. I don't want this to sneak up on you. If you move it to baby step six, still be worried about it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Be be be attentive.

>> Okay, I will. Don't worry. I actually I already told my husband we should just pay it off within another year.

>> I'm okay with that, too.

>> And just because the Valentine's to just pay off both and then be completely done

is kind of their goal. >> Yeah. >> Um so, if we have time, do I have questions about a public loan forgiveness? >> I wouldn't bother with it.

You You make a lot of money. You're great at what you do. Just clean up your stinking debt. You You You've done a great job. Don't sit around waiting on the government to fix your life. The The public loan forgiveness is so full of holes, so many problems. Um it's it's

political in nature more than it is practical. And I just wouldn't screw with it. I I would I would just say I've made this debt. I'm getting out of this debt. And, you know, you're already working 63 positions. You know how to clear debt.

I wouldn't be sitting around worrying about that for 30 seconds. Well, let's just get it done. Just get her done. You are doing so good. Ride the horse. Ride the horse. You're doing great. Just stay on. You're right. I mean this thing is running so fast it's scaring you. And just ride it. Don't don't look for a Don't look for a shortcut. There's not one. Get it. Keep punching it in the nose over and over and over again.

She's going to do it again. Well, there's a question because this is what we talk about when we do debt-free screams and you hear us ask people what was it like when you had to kick in the momentum and when you've paid off this kind of debt in such a short amount of time and now she's working her absolute tail off. Uh that is somebody you know

is going to finish the race cuz she's been doing this long enough to to had some nights where she's probably just cried out of exhaustion or wondered why am I doing this and she keeps showing up. That's the sign that someone like her, her husband, they're going to get there cuz this is hard. That's hard to work that many that many hours a week. I don't care what the work is. >> You're tired. >> Yeah. You just get tired.

>> Yeah. >> But the only and the only thing driving you is the is the progress and the traction. >> That's right. >> And the reward is that that we're making so much, you know, I can look back and go that much is gone. That much is gone.

So that tells me there's a light at the end of the tunnel. There's not an oncoming train and then I can just push on the gas pedal one more time and go again and go again and go again. But it's hard. It's hard. It's just not as hard as being broke your whole freaking life cuz you didn't do it. >> Yeah. >> I mean mediocre is really hard, too.

Average is really hard. Normal sucks.

You don't want to be normal. You want to bust whatever you got to bust to get out of normal. And and that's what, you know, that's what everything we teach is about that.

You know, don't be normal.

The Bible says be not conformed to this world. Don't be normal. Be transformed

by the renewing of your mind.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture today, Matthew 6:20 and 21. Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Tom Snyder said, "Misers are no fun to live with, but they make great ancestors."

That's pretty funny. >> That is good. >> I have not heard that one.

Mark is with us in Seattle. Hey Mark, how are you?

>> Hey, doing well. How about you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I'm just wondering if you think is there a good reason to consider getting term life insurance as a single person or is it just better to wait until if I'm eventually married?

>> Better to wait.

>> Better to wait. >> Yeah, the only reason you would need term life insurance is if you're going to leave something that's a burden to someone you love.

And so if you're single and

you signed a $25,000 car note with your dad

and you died, he'd be stuck with that car note, then you would want to get a life insurance. Or if you're single and you don't have any money saved and your sister's got to pay for you to be buried, well, you might want to get a little life insurance. But I'm guessing, just

listening to you for a second, you probably have enough to bury you.

>> Yeah, and I also have some life insurance through my employer, so >> Yeah, you're fine. >> I was thinking, yeah, okay. Yeah, I figured since I don't have any real dependents, it may not be necessary at this point in my life. >> It's not. How old are you? 25?

>> No, 36. >> 36. Okay, wow. Okay.

And yeah, you just you're you're exactly right. Yeah, you just need enough to to clean up whatever mess you're going to leave behind. And as, you know, we we don't we don't want to call wife and kids a mess, but that's a mess you're going to leave behind, right? And and it would be a bigger mess, and so yeah, you'd need life insurance then.

But what you've got through work would your your mom or dad or your sister or whoever could take it and clean up your affairs without being a financial burden on them. >> Mhm. >> And so you're just fine. And you've probably got a little in a 401k or you got a little money in a checking account or say, you know, maybe you got your emergency fund in place, and so you're just fine.

Well done. John Paul's in Topeka, Kansas.

>> I'm doing great. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, first off, I just wanted to say real quick and then I'll get straight to my point. Ken and Dave, you guys are both amazing. I've been listening to your podcast for a while now, since I was 16. Um, and then every day for the past couple months. Love listening to you guys, love all the insight. So, first and foremost, thanks for taking my call.

>> Thank you.

>> I have I have two questions, but Dave just answered one of them, I think, 10 minutes ago on the phone with somebody else. Um, basically, my wife and I, uh, we just bought a house.

This is our first one.

And this is also the first debt either of us has is ever getting into.

>> Wow. >> So, my my question is, yeah, um, we bought the house for $215,000.

It's a very sturdy neighborhood. It's a good house. It's solid. We had a lot of help from my wife's grandfather. He's a realtor. And so, that's been a huge blessing. We're just good spot right now. We, uh, we put 10% down. And then,

right after, um, we had signed and everything, and we're closing on Monday, um, I got a pretty substantial pay raise at work.

I'm in a new position.

And so, I was doing the budget the other day, and I'm basically my first question is, how intense can we get with this mortgage? >> Well, if you're That's the only debt you have. You have an emergency fund, I guess, after you closed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And what's your household income?

>> Uh, currently, uh, it's with the raise, it should be at somewhere around 95,000 after >> Excellent. And what's the balance on your mortgage?

>> Uh, 193.

>> Okay. So, you got all excited and wanted to dump all the raise on that, and she said, "No, I want to buy a couch." >> Uh, not quite. Not quite. Um, so, argument is a strong word for what I had said origi- initially. We talked about this last night. >> Okay. It's a good It's a fun discussion.

Okay, that's fair. So, here's the thing.

>> Absolutely. >> So, you're in Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6.

You need to be putting 15% away of your income away into good retirement accounts. Roth IRAs, and anywhere you

got a Roth 401(k)s, anywhere there's a match, and good growth stock mutual funds. Beyond that, it sounds like you don't have any kids. So, that's baby step five. Six is we put everything else on the house. Now, four, five, and six are intentional, not intense. So,

intentional means that we're going to be doing some things to have a good life, and we're going to be putting some extra on the debt.

And anywhere in there, I'm okay with. $5 extra on the debt is not what I'm talking about. We ought to put something substantially extra and get this house paid off early. But, that doesn't mean we don't go on vacation, and it doesn't mean we don't upgrade her 1993 Camry,

and it doesn't mean those things. So, we still do the basic things that without

splurging too much on the other things, but also keeping in mind I want to keep the the crosshairs on that mortgage and

knock that mortgage out as fast as I can. The faster you get it knocked out, the faster you're going to be a millionaire. Because when you got no payments in the world and you're making 100,000 bucks a year, you can become a millionaire.

And you're young, and you got all kinds of time to do this, and you've been very conservative in your purchase, and you're I love your numbers. They're great numbers. I think you're great. I don't think you're going to have a wrong answer between the two of you cuz I think both of you got good sense.

>> Yeah. >> Jeff is in Denver. Hey, Jeff, what's up?

>> Hey, Dave. I am so excited to talk with you guys. Um so, my wife and I are now

passing into retirement age. Um we've

been following baby steps uh since I think we first got married, then only recently came across, you know, you guys. And we're going, "Wow, this is really neat." But, so Dave, we to to to

cut to the chase, we we've saved about 5 million. >> Way to go. >> Um um we just finished paying off the house, so we really have no debt. Um but, we were listening on the radio today, and you guys were saying, "Well, you should invest and make 10 to 12%." And I'm like, "How the heck do you do that?" Um >> Well, the S&P 500 has averaged 11.8% and that's the stock market.

>> Okay, so just I mean, obviously you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, right?

I mean, or do you just want to invest in a S&P 500 fund? I don't know, Dave. That's what >> Well, I have my I have my investments in

in growth stock mutual funds across four categories: growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international.

And one of the ways I pick the fund is I want to pick a fund that has outperformed historically the S&P.

And then my other investments are in real estate that I pay cash for.

>> Okay. >> And they do way more than 12%.

>> Okay. Okay, I'm I'm really afraid of real estate cuz I don't I I I >> That's fine. >> I couldn't I couldn't walk out of a a hole if in real estate.

>> That's fine. No problem. You don't have to do it. But um you know, the bottom line is if you had just had your money in an S&P, in 2025, it would have made 17.9. In 2024, it would have made 25.6. In 2023, it would have made 26.3. That's what the S&P returned in those last 3 years. Those are above average returns. I don't think it's going to keep returning like that.

Those are unusually high good years. Uh this year we're flat year-to-date in the S&P. Um with a little bit of a roller coaster ride due due to Iran getting bombed. But the um but but overall, I'm been very comfortable. I've been investing in mutual funds for 30-plus years and I'm very comfortable that I can get north of 10% on average over a long period of

time. But I don't you know, I'm not sweating it, but I I shouldn't be getting 3% when I've got those kinds of rates of return floating around.

>> Yeah, I'm just curious of how he amassed $5 million, you know, I don't know if he's done company 401ks and doesn't understand the correlation to what you're talking about there, but I I mean that's uh >> He's done really well. >> Done very well. >> Yeah, way to go. Congratulations.

>> And so when you get somebody like that that has amassed, you know, and he wants to diversify now, does he go the just the standard diversification like you?

>> Yeah. >> I would, but I mean it's up to him. I mean mathematically, that's what I would do. Emotionally, I mean it sounds like he might not want to do that. >> Right. Right. >> But um that's okay. You don't have to do it, but you're asking how I did it or how we why we would say something like that on the air. Well, that's why. 17.9,

25.6, and 26.3. That's the last 3 years.

And so, you know, that that's kind of how this works. So, uh but again, that that's how you can get to an average of 11.8 since the stock market began.

Uh when other years you might make six or seven or eight.

And you know, and that drags the average down. Yeah. So, there you go. But all of these things beat high-yield savings for sure. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> This is the Ramsey Show.

>> The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to actually be part of the show. >> Ask your burning question live.

>> Finally win that money argument in your house. >> My mom occasionally asked us to borrow money. >> That's a no all the way around.

>> I'm a spender, he's a saver.

>> I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known. >> You do a pre-pre-nup?

>> What's a pre-pre-nup? >> I don't know. I thought there'd be something.

>> The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you.

>> There's always something you can do to better your situation.

>> We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

>> I'm really, really proud of you. That's awesome. >> That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

>> The Ramsey Show Live, one night only, coming to a city near you.

>> Ah!

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## 258. You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions | December 2, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, one of our most popular properties on [music] the Ramsey Network. Number one bestselling author and Ramsey personality. PhD in counseling, by the way. And after Thanksgiving, some of you probably need a little of that. Yeah.

Open phones here at8255225.

I'm not saying your family's crazy. I'm just saying somebody in your family is crazy. [laughter] >> Yeah, that's our standing joke around here. If you think there's crazy in every family, and if you think there's not in yours, that means it's you. So, yeah. Welcome to Thanksgiving and here we go to Christmas, baby. Yeah, just keep it rolling. Get the hits. They keep on coming. Bonnie's in Las Vegas. Hey, Bonnie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Amen.

Um, we've been long-standing uh huge

fans of yours and uh we just appreciate everything you do. And um we have our

19-year-old. We adopted her when she was 16. And so we did the best that we could, you know, for the uh few years that we had where she was living under our roof, just teaching her, you know, how to um how to save money, just be

wise, you know, uh with financial decisions. >> Mhm. >> And ultimately, it just was not um you

know, received well. And uh you know so

I my husband and I I think are at um are

at odds because you know one thing led to another and she just wasn't really making um wise choices in any area. And

um it just kind of was a better situation for her to leave the home, you know, cuz we have five little ones um at

our house as well that you know she was ultimately an example to as well. Um, but she's, you know, living with another family member is safe and and and good, but she's in a situation now where, you know, she doesn't have car insurance because she can't afford it. And so she's um because she's not working. And

now she's, you know, not working because she doesn't have a car to get to work.

Um, and so my mama heart wants to come in and, you know, kind of save her and and and help her out. Um,

you know, I I don't necessarily know what that looks like, but you know, my husband kind of says, well, she's kind of got to, you know, maybe hit rock bottom, hit, you know, um, a low so

that, you know, she can kind of wake up a little bit. And, um, you know, if she wants help, she can come and ask us.

>> And I'm kind of like, well, maybe she doesn't know that she can, you know, that she can ask us for help. Um, so we're kind of, you know, at odds there.

And I was just wondering if you had any suggestions.

You guys got big hearts and you're sweet people and you're really trying to make up 16 years of mess in just three years.

>> Yeah. >> And you did not get to enter into the development stages of her child development. You didn't get to lay any groundwork there. So, basically, you're taking a quasi adult at 16 and trying to

uh trying to fill her up with um 16

years worth of stuff she didn't get before and it didn't didn't work, right?

>> Yeah. So, this is a lot bigger than car insurance for her, isn't it?

>> Right. Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I hear the pain in your voice. I'm sorry. But the um >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. Uh um so I'll let John pick it up,

but the thing I run into with the money piece is the nicest people on the planet

and you're one of them. Uh have and and

the one day a year that I'm the nicest person and the others I'm not. But that that that one day I am I can fall into the same bucket. We become enablers.

>> Right. Right. >> And we say things like mama's heart.

It's not mama's heart.

mama's. So, what I want you to do is I want you to define the word help to be

not something that temporarily takes away her pain, but something that helps her be a better 30-year-old.

>> Yeah. >> And this and and you just caving and running over and throwing money on her while she's misbehaving, rebelling, and doing a whole bunch of other stuff she shouldn't be doing for her own sake is not really help, is it? It's giving a drunk a drink.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, John, >> yeah. It's been my experience working with teenagers and young adults who were

adopted, especially late, that I don't

think this is a conscious thing at all, but there's always going to be a push to see, are you going to leave me too?

>> And it's a recurring limit to how far

can I take push you? how far can I stretch these boundaries, stretch this this rope you're giving me so I can prove to myself that it's me that's the problem.

>> And so the challenge for you is how do

you constantly stay in communication to this young person that you adopted

and let them know I will never leave you and that's different than I'm going to always give you whatever you want whenever you want it.

>> Sure. And where I've seen families be successful is it's a little bitty things

like a recurring breakfast together.

It's a um anytime I'm going to call you

once a week. I'm going to call you twice a week. We're going to meet at the local Waffle House there in Vegas once a week on Tuesday mornings. I'm going to be there at 7 o'clock in the morning or I'll be in front of your house to pick you up because you don't have a car.

Um, I want to see you and I'm going to continue to not just talk, but I'm going to do these small steps to prove to you that I'm in this for the long haul.

I won't be your bank. >> I'll be your number one fan, >> but I'm not your bank. >> That's right. And like Dave said, we're aiming here for a a 30-year-old that

believes in themsself, >> not a happy 19-year-old. Those those are two very different things, right?

>> And there's that means you're going to have to weather a storm. And you've weathered one for the last three years. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. I know it's been messy and ugly.

And there's going to be days you sit outside and she doesn't show up. There's going to be days you're sitting at a diner by yourself. And so take other work you got to do or whatever, but you want to constantly be showing yourself until she says, "I don't want a relationship with you." M >> um but like >> if a rel but if a relationship is based on you writing her checks that's not a relationship. >> It was never a relationship to begin with.

>> A purchased relationship has another name. >> Yeah.

and this person's an adult now and they don't want anything to do with us and that'll be heartbreaking and all that.

Um, but like Dave said, what is a way that we can be supportive?

So, you get a job and I will help you for four months with car insurance until you're under on your feet >> or I'll match you. You save up part of it. >> That's my favorite part is the match.

>> Something like that. But I'm going to call you up and pay for it and call that mother's heart. No, that's just giving a drunk a drink. >> Yeah. That's enabling. >> Sure. Right.

>> And so it's it's you and your husband getting clear together. What are ways we can partner with a young adult who has never had any sort of modeling up until 16 years old?

>> That's just tough. It's tough for that for your 19-year-old. It's tough for you all. It's tough for everybody cuz there's going to be a lot of hurt involved, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, there has been. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. And you had to get her out of the house with away from the kids. So, this kid's out of control for sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry.

>> But you're a good person. You're sweet.

you're trying. Um, and just don't get confused about the definition of help.

Real help helps her when she's 30, not when she's 19. Some 19-year-olds, real help is unlimited beer. No, that's not that's not what we're talking about.

[laughter] >> Yeah. Ask yourself, who who do you want this 30-year-old to be when they're 30?

And reverse engineer that.

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>> [music]

>> Gary is in Riverside, California. Hey, Gary. What's up?

>> Hey, good morning Dave and John. Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling on behalf of my mother-in-law. She's 85 years old. She's uh on a fixed income through Social Security and she's a widow. Um, we just recently learned that

she's racked up $38,000 in debt on

credit cards through QVC, JTV, things

like that. She's gone into a debt

consolidation company without our knowledge. And then she's still spending using her ATM card through QVC, JTV,

HSN, and every purchase is the five e

easy payments. So, she's got money coming out of her ATM now daily that's

drawing her into the negative. And on top of that, she was just start we found out she's trying to refinance her home that would take her mortgage up to um

about 55% of her income. So, we're looking for suggestions. one, with the debt that's in collections, and two, how to stop the ongoing money that's coming out of her account literally on a daily basis.

>> Doesn't matter if she goes back and does it again next week.

>> We think we finally got her to the point where she realizes that she's got a problem and she can't do it.

>> Will she sign it over to you? Cuz right now you don't have a legal claim to tell her to stop.

So, she does have a living trust and I

am her financial power of attorney there, but she has not been declared incompetent or anything like that. We don't know whether or not >> I want her to shut down all of her checking accounts >> and she has no spending available to her except what you give her and you operate her account as if she's incompetent

>> voluntarily. One of the things that's one of the things that my wife and I were discussing was whether we should shut down that account and >> for her own good. Not cuz you need her money, but I mean she ain't got any to start with. But the the um but the bottom line is is I don't believe her.

This is a lonely lady that is getting someone on the phone who's talking to her on the shopping channel and she's figured out a way to have a conversation when she's sitting there by herself. And she's going to do it again and again and again and again and again until you take until you take all manner of payment out of her control.

>> And the only way to do that right now since she's not deemed incompetent she has to give that to you.

>> Yeah. She's going to look look we I've

this is I've heard this story a bunch of times in 35 years. Okay. And um it it's

a classic. And so the um I'm not just

jumping to conclusions here about this unique situation. Um I'm telling you what I would do if it was my mother-in-law. I would say, "I really can't help you unless I help you. And

here's how I can best help you. I will make sure you have food and your house, and I will get these bills paid off for you. But we're going to stop all spending and I'm going to control the account and make sure you have stuff and until you can get the other side of this and then we'll look at what whether we want you to do it or not. But we're going to take the social security check, put it in a different bank and we're going to open up an account and I'm going to be in control of that account.

Okay? And then you can jump on the phone with the uh miscellaneous payment people and just go, "Good luck. She's 85. She's on social security. She's got nothing.

Um, a matter of fact, I if I can scrape together a few dollars of hers, I'll settle it with you. I've got full power of attorney. I'll send that to you. And so, what you did was prey on old people and took advantage of them and sold them stuff they couldn't afford.

So, you're going to get what you deserve, which is nothing, honey. So, I'm going to totally mess with them. Bloody their nose. I'll pay them something.

But, um, they can be cleared up.

>> Yeah. But you can't do it if she's doing 10 more tomorrow.

>> Right. Right. >> And she will do, don't you think?

>> That's our number one concern. Yes.

>> Yeah. Larry Briquette used to say financial problems are not the problem, they're the symptom. If these problems are the symptom, then what's the real problem? I think it's loneliness.

>> Part of it, but some of it she's clicking through things on Facebook and they're signing up her up for things that she's not even realizing that she's signing up for. >> Yeah. Okay. She's being prayed upon as an elder that doesn't understand the technology and she's lonely.

>> 100%. >> Yeah. And so, um, you know, I I I've got

I've got to build a system that that brings that into consideration to help her and that's what I'm outlining.

>> Will she turn it over to you?

>> You think she'll do it?

>> It depends on the day.

>> Yeah. [laughter] At times she's seems like she's wanting to help and then at others she gets stubborn and is like, "I know what I'm doing. Just leave me alone." >> It's your wife's mom.

>> Yes. >> Your wife got siblings.

>> Two of them. Um >> Yeah. She needs to make sure they're in the loop.

>> They They are. Yeah. We've >> But I mean, they're in the loop with you taking this over.

>> Cuz then they're going to be calling me and go, "My brother-in-law stole all my mother's money." >> That's right.

>> Yeah. And then you're setting up another war when she passes away

because then it will be like, "Where's the money? What'd you do? And we didn't know you were doing this." >> Just keep a just keep a real clear ledger so you know exactly where every bit of it went so you can handle an audit. >> And uh you just send them the audit and go, "Good luck.

Figure it out. You weren't there. You weren't helping." >> So uh but that's coming up too. But I I would I'd send them a report once a month.

Let them see exactly what's going on once you take it over so that they don't come back at you later.

>> Yeah, >> it understood. >> And I I I have a personal rule of thumb.

It I'm not it's not ironclad, but it's just a just seems to work better.

>> Can Does your mother-in-law listen to you more than her own daughter, or is this a conversation that your wife and her siblings can have?

We've tried that. So, her the siblings are out of state. My wife and I have been over there a couple times over the last couple weeks and we have the conversations together. My wife is standing right here with me now as we're discussing this. >> Okay. Sometimes a third party is helps

and sometimes third party being you and sometimes it makes it more convoluted.

Um and so y'all y'all know your family dynamics better than anybody, but um that's always where I want somebody to start. And for some reason, sometimes people can't hear from their adult kids, but they can hear from somebody else.

And so if you're that somebody else, that's great. >> Yeah. I had a family member of my wife Sharon's that asked me a detailed question about an estate thing. And I said, "Oh, that's easy. You just need to do this, this, this, and this. And if you don't do it, you're going to create these problems, and you need to do it this week. Do this, this, and this." You got it? Yeah. Okay. You know what they did? Nothing. Not that. [laughter]

Nothing. It was freaking Dave Ramsey that said it. Okay. I mean, this isn't [laughter] like the other brother-in-law. This is me, you know.

So, you know, >> God almighty nothing. So, yeah, John's right. Sometimes it's the blood that's got to the the blood kin that's got to make the message go through. Uh it doesn't matter who it is. So, you sound very credible, Gary. I like what you're saying and I think you're going to have to a partial is going to create a partial door open to Facebook scams to

uh shopping channel scams and she's going to sign up for all of them and she's going to end up and refinancing the house obviously is ridiculous. No, don't do that. I would rather just put all these other bills in collections.

Just let them go to collections and ruin her credit. That'd be awesome.

Yeah. So, she can't get anymore. Dave, so I hear this only because um I'm on

this show, but if I read the headlines, all the headlines say is there's this

bajillions of trillions of dollars of wealth in aging populations.

But I have to believe that's concentrated because the more I'm on this show, I'm hearing more and more of what I would call the other untold story

of aging populations that are increasingly falling for internet scams.

Um, letting princes over in somewhere in

Africa borrow money.

>> The Nigerian prince has a Bitcoin.

>> Yeah. all kind like but it's it's becoming like really significant and I

don't know if there's a broader conversation that needs to happen but people need to sit down with their aging parents. Yeah. >> Especially the ones that are not the ones that have millions of dollars at the disposal as much as these folks who are on social security. They got nothing. >> Mhm. >> And they're mortgaging their souls for this stuff. >> Well, I've been hearing the shopping channel thing with aging for 30 years.

That's been going on forever. Um what what I will tell you has increased is two things. buy now pay later. The four four easy payments for a freaking t-shirt, >> a $9 t-shirt, you get four payments on it. Okay, it's a problem here people.

And uh then then the other thing is just technology has uh you know increased the

size, the scale, the speed at which people get screwed. >> Yeah. And it and it gives you a picture of it too. >> Exactly. You know, Facebook gives you access to some good things but also some that aren't. Yeah.

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I get so confused by these sales and these sale holidays. So apparently we

have Cyber Monday week.

[laughter] This is so oxymoronic. Okay. So Cyber

Monday week. We have Cyber Monday, but it goes on all week. >> This is America. Nothing's real. Not even days and weeks.

>> We just convolute whatever the crap we want so we can sell some stuff. That's what we do. >> And we're Hey, at Ramsey, we are the same way. We're going to do the exact same thing. So, we have Cyber Monday Week and the deals, they are in full swing. Got hardcover books, audio books, assessments, all with prices as low as $6.99.

Shut up. You can't get stuff for $6.

Yeah, you can here. Don't wait. These deals end Sunday. Sunday [laughter] the

12th, the 7th of December. I'm so

confused. That's the Lord's day. and go to ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube and so forth, click in [laughter] the show notes. I'm so caught up in this.

Sherry's in Dallas. Hey, Sherry. How are you?

>> Good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So honored to speak to you guys today. I really need your advice. >> We'll try. I um I fell for the annuity scam and didn't know it was a scam until after I did it and after my 20-day window was over. Um in October, we

rolled $689,000 of my husband's 401k into a fixed annuity and they gave us a 5% bonus. So

the value today is 724. Uh the problem

is the insurance company as I'm sure you know keeps 22% of that and the first year surrender charge is 13%.

So my question is do we stay until the

surrender charges drop? Um especially given you know >> this is 30 days old. This is 30 days old.

>> It's um a it's over that. It was in October.

>> Well okay. I mean it's 45 days old.

Yeah. He told me it's too late. He told me I had a 20-day window. >> This is the insurance agent that told you this. This sold you this crap.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Good. All right. Um

I don't know is the answer, but I want

more information because I don't believe

the person who sold me something that's bad to start with. That's not a good source of information.

>> Fair. Fair enough. So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvester pro and get one of our Smartves Veester Pros there in your area that you can talk to and and tell them what you've got and see if uh the

insurance commissioner in Texas will

grant you a little more leeway than that and you get 100 cents in the dollar back.

>> Okay. >> And then get back out of it. So, um,

yeah. And then get this into some good investments that aren't so front-loaded and crappy in performance, >> right? >> So, um, >> so do you recommend a a index fund?

>> Um, I recommend a fruit jar before you do this, but um [laughter] uh but the Yeah,

an index fund is fine. um it was a 401k

and so uh you've got you need to roll it into an IRA and based on the fact that it's in an IRA I'm probably going to put it in the four types of mutual funds that mine are in which is a fourth in

growth growth in income aggressive

growth and international with long track records that's what mine are in and I'm 65 how old are you

>> I'm 62 >> okay >> my husband and is about to be 60.

>> Okay. So, yeah, same category and that's what mine are in cuz I'm going to leave it alone and then you've got to start talking about moving some of it out of there before you get to 73 and a half because you're going to have RMDs required minimum distributions on your 401k. You're going to have that in the in the annuity as well, by the way, because it's probably a qualified plan, too. So, um meaning it's a >> what do I do if they won't move it and we're stuck with the 13%.

>> One quarter of the of the stock market might be 13%.

>> You know, and it's certainly going to, you know, you're going to make your money back quick enough. Um uh the the

and I'm going to I'm not going to accept

Joe Bob's answer. Okay? I I want your I want your I want somebody that that that knows the laws and and the the tolerance

for this in with the Texas Insurance Commission to put their hands on this.

It may be, but if I'm you and it's going to cost me 13% in stupid tax to get this moved, you'll make that back up in good investments rather than being stuck in this thing.

>> And the other thing is every day you wake up and you see the company name, you're pissed again. I don't want to live like that.

Yeah. >> Now, let's recap for my mistake.

>> No, it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes.

You You were hoodwinkedked. So, let me tell people what happened to you, and you tell me if I'm right.

>> A person contacted you in your 60s about helping you create a very stable,

predictable investment that would grow without taxes. And they are an investment

adviser. They're a financial advisor.

And the company name is a insurance company name not an investment company name but they posed as and sell

themselves as an investment adviser. Is that what happened?

>> Close. I actually reached out to them

>> because they were promoted by a person

in the church that's well known that I trust and follow.

>> Yeah. >> And then they dropped some big names of people that they've helped and whose money they manage. And so that's what got me hooked. >> Yeah. But it's you did not place your money with an investment company. You placed your money with an insurance company.

>> Correct. >> And going in you were not planning on doing that. That's not what you signed up for. You signed up for to do some investing.

>> Correct. >> And then they they but they insurance agents are licensed only to sell insurance products. Annuities are insurance products. They cannot sell mutual funds. And so this is what they sell is this crap and um and they put people in and they

can even sell a decent product which is a variable annuity but I wouldn't even put you in that because you're getting double feed. So it's just a it's a yeah

man it's awful. I'm sorry you're having that. I but if it if you only lose 13% I

would be in good investments versus a fixed annuity. Fixed nuity is like a high yield savings account rate. It's gonna pay you four or five percent. If you make 12 or 14 on something in two years, you made your money back if that's all you make. And you ought to make more than that if you watch what you're doing and get some real help. So, uh, as a possibility anyway, depending on what the markets are doing. So, yeah, I I'm I'm out of there. Wow.

That infuriates me, John. That's Well, it's somebody else getting prayed on in their 60s, right? We talked about earlier. >> Yeah. >> Um, tell me this. So when she says 13%,

is that of the growth since this thing was moved or is that over the like 13% of the entire portfolio? >> The entire portfolio. >> Good gosh. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because they're going to get their blankety blank commission no matter what. >> That's a crazy amount. >> Yeah. Well, the insurance business is all front-loaded. It's all they all get their money on the front end of everything. And um so these are frustrated life insurance agents is what they are. They're not real good. And so

sometimes you I even see these things, okay, the whales jumping on the Sure.

>> Pacific Life and we'll help you and you got people walking and they're holding hands in a rose garden and they're retiring and all this bull crap. It's it's stupid but life insurance stuff. My daughter, you're not going to believe me. My daughter yesterday, her and I I wouldn't watch one of one of Blue or whatever she wanted to watch.

I wanted to watch football games. So, she curled up on the couch next to me and they had they had a commercial and she said, >> "What does that have to do with whatever it is they're selling?" She's nine. And I was like, >> "Not a lot, Josephine.

>> It's called branding. It's called branding." But yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. And so if if the if the name of the company you're getting ready to do your investment in air quotes with has

insurance in the name, you're about to

get screwed.

That's a good way to remember it. Okay.

done. >> So, I mean, if you don't do in you don't get your muffler fixed at the transmission store, you don't do investments with insurance.

Okay? It's that simple. We go, you know, go qualified people who have securities

licenses, not insurance licenses, to

help you do real investing. >> I just can't believe a penalty on anything would be 13% of the total of your portfolio. What a >> And how about this? 20 day or 26 days

with a 20-day cut off. Oh no, ma'am. We can't do that now. What business does that? >> Yeah, someone who is Home Depot will take your lawnmower back 2 years after you bought it and give you a full refund. But not these bozos. [laughter]

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in the subject line. Caleb is in Canada.

Hi Caleb. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Looks like you've had a I had a month and a half longer to burn off that Thanksgiving turkey here in Canada, but I'm doing good. I'm doing good.

>> Um my wife and I are wondering how we

can go from being um intense to

intentional. We um have never really had

any debt, no student loans, no car loans. We do have a house mortgage that we want to uh pay off aggressively.

Uh the only thing is standing in our way is we want to my wife wants to travel. I want to pay down the house faster. I guess we're kind of at a a standstill there on uh just what approach we should take of of finding a good balance between enjoying our lives and uh continuing to uh be aggressive with getting our house paid off. >> Okay. So when you do the budget, you have x number of dollars extra that we could either throw at the house or at travel. Correct.

Correct. Yep.

>> Why don't you just try an experiment?

Split it.

>> Okay. >> Half towards a house, half towards travel >> and just see how that works for a little while. >> And then you may want to reset the percentages later. The two of you agreeing on them, not you persuading her that 100% needs to go towards house or her persuading you that 100% needs to go towards travel.

>> Right. >> You just have some conflicting goals, both of which are good goals.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We obviously want to enjoy, we're pretty young, we want to enjoy our um our lives, but we also would would like that burden off of our shoulders of of having the mortgage. >> They're both really good goals. What's your household income, sir?

>> Um combined we bring about net we bring

around one home.

>> Mhm. Good. >> Um I I work >> What's the balance on the mortgage?

>> Uh 419,000.

>> Okay. So, I'll run out some scenarios cuz you're the math nerd. you're going to want to do this and go, "Okay, the money that we have left in a budget is X, and if I put half of it towards the debt on the house will be done by year."

And then you go, "Okay, that's >> I don't know. I make up a number. $2,000 a month we can put towards travel.

That's $24,000 a year. That's dad gum couple nice trips right there."

>> Yeah. >> I mean, I made that number up. I don't know if you got 4,000 disposable or not, but whatever the number is, right? Y'all work on it. But I mean, just try something. And as John says, just, you know, it's a muscle that's been undeveloped, underdeveloped, and now you're developing the travel muscle. And

um both of you, you know, she's getting some of her thing, you're getting some of yours. And if it's a smaller item that you're trying to decide, like buying a car versus a trip, um you know, what we always do is just try to put which one's first, not which one. >> Yeah. And the thing about the

Caleb, what you're describing here, I would want to know, is there a place she wants to go or is this an identity? We

want to be people who go travel because if it's a place we want to go, let's put a dollar amount on it. Let's do our research and let's let's like you said, let's split it until we've saved up for that. >> I've always wanted to go on a dot dot dot >> to Costa Rica or to Australia or whatever. Let's save up and do that.

If she is saying, "No, no, I want to be somebody who always has a trip on the calendar somewhere. I'm always planning." >> That's what I was doing. >> Then that's a different that's an identity. >> And let's be honest about what that's going to cost.

And so, um, getting to the brass tax of

what that actually means. >> No, that's good. That's good because Yeah, I think you're right. We, um, >> my wife and I, she would say, "I want to travel." And I would say, "Okay, where do you want to go and how much is that going to cost?" And I missed what she was saying, which is John, you're kind of boring and you like to go to bed and just sit at the house and I want to be I want to go out and see the world.

And that was a different conversation. I just missed it. Right. >> Yeah.

But that is different than I've always wanted to see fill in the blank >> a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And you can you can budget that one and >> that was easy. Yeah. >> That's a trip versus a car versus a couch versus a whatever purchase. So again, all we're doing is every dollar still has an assignment.

We just don't have to live on beans and rice. We can do some travel. We can buy a couch. We can upgrade the car.

We can pay down on the house. We can do all of these and just as long as we're together and we're doing a little bit on all of it. A little bit on the house extra. I don't want to do zero on the house extra, but but um or you can turn it up and turn it down.

I'm going to turn it way down because we need to get a car. We need to upgrade this car. Mama's car is bad. You know, that kind of thing.

And then you can after we get the car, we'll turn it back up. you can give and go a little >> uh versus and that's if you've got identified targets.

have a different I don't have a good word for it other than that's where true marital intimacy comes from cuz you get beneath the hey I want to pay this house off because I I have this thing in my soul I hate owing somebody money. Um or

I want to be someone who travels. I never got to travel as a kid and there's so much in this amazing world. I want to go see some of it. You get to have those rich conversations and they get off the spreadsheet and into your spirit, which I think is a great conversation that many couples don't ever get to.

They stop at the spreadsheet and then they have a fight and then they both go their separate ways. Yeah. And I love those deeper conversations.

juggling this. We're arguing about this. And so that's good. But tell her why you want what what it would mean to not have a house payment as a husband, right? I would know my wife is always taking care of if something were to happen to me.

That's a different conversation than I just want to pay this off because it's the next baby step or you know the travel. So it's getting to that deeper level and I think those make for great rich conversations. >> Agreed. Chris is in Tampa, Florida. Hey Chris, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Dave, >> good. How can we help?

>> I have a situation coming up. I have always had to pay uh well for the last three years flood insurance because I've had a loan on my house uh and I was required to carry it. I've recently paid off my house and now I'm looking at my flood insurance is going to be about somewhere between $45 and $4,800

uh for $250,000 worth of coverage with a $5,000 deductible.

>> Are you on the coast or on a waterway?

>> I am. I'm in flood zone A cuz I'm a

>> Nothing wrong with that. That's not a If you want to live on the beach, you want to live on the beach. >> But you just And floods happens happen because of hurricanes.

>> Exactly. >> And hurricanes [clears throat] happen in Tampa. >> Yeah. Y'all y'all got a doozy a year or two ago, right?

>> Yeah, we sure did. Two of them back to back. >> In that case, I'm In that case, I'm keeping it. >> Absolutely.

>> Okay. Even if I had money like for 250,000, I have 200 that we've been using to save up to move. >> You got to go through how many years.

>> How many years you got to go through?

>> Like 40 or 50 years or something to break even?

>> 5,000 5,250, right?

>> Yeah. I was just looking if I could park that money in a in an account that would grow. >> Not that fast. >> Then and use >> So you would you would maintain your flood insurance at that? I I would >> just call in a sleep tax, dude.

>> If it was me, I would. And and here's here's why. Okay, you guys remember Katrina and we were talking about it earlier uh in uh in uh just destroyed

New Orleans. And the houses all got destroyed, but they didn't get destroyed by the hurricane. They got destroyed because the hurricane destroyed the levies. Everybody got wiped out by floods. State Farm paid nothing.

They paid no one anything on hurricane insurance because they declared it all to be floods. >> Wow. >> And they were taken to court time and time and time again and they won every one of them. Same thing in Mississippi.

Same exact thing h happened GF coast of Alabama. Same exact thing. And uh

because what happens is storm surge

is considered a flood even though it's caused by a hurricane. And these people don't pay their ter their claims. And so

um and so State Farm just walked away scot-f free. They led the charge cuz they're the largest and then all the other goobers followed them. And um but

yeah, they they and they won the court cases. Said it wasn't a hurricane knocked the house down. It's a flood that was caused by hurricane. But that's it seems to be irrelevant. I don't know.

Pisses me off every time I say it out loud. >> Dude, it just you're making my blood boil, man. >> Well, I'm I'm not a State Farm fan anyway. You know that. So there you go.

All right. That just that just sealed it for me.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at825-5225.

Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel.

How are you?

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Uh, big fan of the show.

Uh, me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move. Well, sorry. Sorry. We have been dating for 4 years and we'd like to move

in together and potentially Well, we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what your thoughts were.

>> Uh, the data is not in your favor.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually um doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income

and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who

are married. Not to mention this the statistics on the the relationship not making it over time. Um how long have you all been dating?

>> Uh four years. >> Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on?

Um, I would like to do it. Um, my parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for 6 months to a year prior.

Um, I would like to do it. It's just that I I'm also heeding their advices.

>> How old are you? >> My parents I'm 20 25 26 and a month.

>> Okay. So, if you if you already have your if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

Uh, I was just curious what your guys's opinions was. >> You already knew. >> Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, "Yeah, I already knew that." >> Right.

>> Um, we both think we're very like financially uh sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So, I'm just curious if that changes anything or No. >> No. Cuz how old were you when you got married? >> Me? Yeah. >> 24. >> Okay. I was 22.

>> Yeah. I've been married 43 years.

>> I'm I'm 23 and a2. >> Listen, I I I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

>> I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. >> I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes. >> Yeah, [laughter] we disagree all the time.

>> Not really. >> And I'm usually right. That's That's even harder. >> Not really. Yeah. [laughter] >> So, my Let me tell you this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl?

Yes, sir. >> Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, "As for me, in my household."

>> Yeah. Your your mom [clears throat] and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son.

>> They can only advise you.

>> Right. Um, so my next question would be, >> and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do.

>> Yes, sir. Understood. So, we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for

uh engagement ring or rings.

>> Oh, in our area for like New York City

in Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. Uh we've traveled to a few cities. Um we we just we're other than

like we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions. We graduated together with associates degrees.

>> Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. So, um, yes, one month

of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. Um, and yes, 1/4th of

your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent, because you don't create a sustainable situation.

You're short on money. Your house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So, if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years, and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you.

But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take-home, you got a bad formula.

It's not You're going to struggle with that one. >> Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents going to be free from now on. That they're going to be good.

>> Yeah. >> No, too soon. >> Yeah. [laughter] Too soon. >> Plus, plus or minus the rats. Yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. Um, and I'm not talking about the rodents, but Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I I I don't know. It's um uh

No, Daniel. Um the math still has to

math even in New York.

And um so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associates degrees into

uh sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began people

have done that until they can afford to do it. And so um you know and and New

York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo,

London, San Francisco, I mean these are this is the list, right? Paris, these are very

uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but it's just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in

London. That'll get your attention.

Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

>> Hey guys, uh, thanks for taking my call.

Um, my wife and I, we are almost done

with uh, Babysub 2. Um, I'm 49 years

old. Um, and I was approached today um

at work to purchase a long-term

care policy. It's a >> nursing home care. >> It says, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term, we'll pay you%. >> You don't need it. >> That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main >> The main deal is long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero.

>> Okay? >> So, we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure.

Just pay for the nursing home or pay for inhome care or whatever you're going to do. Okay? But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old, the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically, the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so, papa goes

in the nursing home, uses up all the money, and then dies, leaves mama broke.

That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40.

>> 49. >> 49. You don't need it till you're 60.

>> I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

>> That's where I was I was a little hesitant. And I have a I have a life insurance policy now, a term life that's done um I guess until I'm Yeah, it's it's at 75 it ends.

>> Um I also have insurance through uh through the military. Um >> Mhm. >> should I be purchasing any other type of >> Well, life insurance you need if uh about 10 to 12 times your income on you

>> to cover your family if you die. And

that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone.

They'll be grown. Hopefully, they'll be gone. And uh and so that's that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And you so you you you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

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John's in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Hey, John. How are you?

>> Good morning. >> Hey, what's up?

>> Um, uh, I've got a bit of a situation.

Um, we were actually starting to think about a reverse mortgage and I want to I know you're always against it, so I want to hear what, uh, what your point of view on this is.

Um, I've got a daughter uh 32 years old

who uh became a widow and a single mom

and uh we've got a right now she's working one day a week from uh the office and 4 days a week at home and that's kind of working out but they want to move her back to the office and that's kind of unsustainable.

So we're kind of thinking about trying to get her off the workforce for a couple years until the kids are just a little bit bigger.

How old are those kids?

>> Uh, one is about um 20

this month and the other one is about 33

>> months. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, two years and three years.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> Okay. I thought you were getting ready to say 20 years. I was about to freak out. Okay. >> What happened to her husband?

>> Uh, it's a motorcycle crash.

>> Oh gosh, man. I'm sorry. What's she do for a living? Uh >> she works in the education system. She helps disabled kids do uh exams.

>> Obviously, no life insurance.

>> Uh well, his debts pretty much were insured. Uh the house is paid for and most of his debts were covered. Um she

doesn't have monthly income from it, but u uh quite a bit of the uh the debts

were were covered.

>> Okay. All right. But he didn't have life insurance to provide for her just to cover the debts. Okay.

>> Yes. >> Some of them. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, it was like a couple miscellaneous build and the house insurance or the house mortgage was the biggest one. >> Is she asking to leave the workforce?

Because my gut tells me this is not a great idea.

>> No. No. Me and my wife have come up with that idea. uh we're kind of seeing this is when she has to go back four four or five days a week to the office, it's it's too long of a dates of the kids to be gone that long. Like on the day she works, we go and take care of the kids later in the day.

>> Is But I mean, you're talking about a two or three year challenge here until the kids are in school age, right?

>> Right.

>> Yeah. I mean, I would sit down and have that conversation with her, but I a I

wouldn't put myself at financial risk that she might have to clean up someday.

Number one, but number two, it feels

like you guys are watching your daughter grieve deeply, this sudden and

unfathomably traumatic loss, and y'all

are itching to do something to help in support, but it's it's something that she hasn't even asked to do.

Yeah. Well, I know she won't ask.

>> Yeah, that doesn't matter. Um, >> taking her out of any taking her out of any support c any social circle in work, especially as a teacher is your friends are there like other adults are there, taking her out of a purpose outside of these two years with the kids. What What does she do again? She she works with um disabled kids.

>> Yeah. >> Kids with special needs. Okay. She works with special needs kids from her home

>> four days a week. How does she do that?

>> It's all online and most of the tests are done online. With CO, they tried to move as much as they could to >> There's not co >> No, I know. But >> Oh, this is Canada. I forgot. >> The office. Yeah, I know. I know.

And our money is is off the money, too.

>> Jeez. Yeah. I I I wouldn't recommend it,

especially when conversation with her.

It feels like a uh a temporary solution for a permanent problem or a permanent solution for a temporary problem. I said it backwards. Um >> yes, that's >> and so um uh does she live in your

community?

>> Uh we're about 45 minutes apart.

>> Okay. Can you keep the kids?

>> Oh, she wouldn't park their kids.

>> No, when she goes to work full time >> while she's working during the day instead of daycare.

uh that would put us there five days a week instead of what we're doing now at 2 or three. And uh she likes dropping

them off in the morning and then we pick up in the afternoon on the days she's not home.

>> Here's what y'all aren't metabolizing though. How long ago did her husband pass away?

>> Uh 13 months. >> Okay. It feels like there's still a pause on every single solitary thing has changed.

>> Yes. And I say this with as big a heart

as I could possibly say it, but I spent my career sitting with folks who's the worst thing has happened to them.

Like what you want is is different now.

I wanted to drop these kids off. I did I don't want their life to change that much. I want to be able to keep this job and this town and this house. I want all those things and all that is good to want that. But every single thing is different now.

And so what we want, especially for the next couple of years until those kids get into school age, is is got to go out the window to what do we have to do? So before I put my personal home at risk in my retirement years, I would babysit the children. That's what I'm saying.

>> All day every day for for five days a week for two years. I would rather give that up than give up you can step into a

reverse mortgage and screw up your home mortgage heading into retirement. or one or both of y'all move into the house for five days a week and you'll go home to your house on the weekends for the next 24 months or something.

>> Just say for 24 months we're going to step in and help you get this done and look for another job, >> right? Or possibly you have to move closer now. We have to sell this house because everything is different now.

>> Yeah. >> And that sounds so callous and ugly. I'm not trying to be ugly at all, but everything's different now. And what we want comes second to the reality that we're faced with. >> Yeah. So, so she's not going to get her perfect life back. Everything's not going to be back together by you throwing some money at it.

>> Yes. And her taking stepping out of the workforce, all of the adults in her life, all of her support network, and just staying at home for two years >> and the meaning that serving special needs kids is giving her, right? >> All that's gone. >> Yeah. And she needs that right now.

Yeah. So, no, I'm keeping her in the workforce and figuring out how uh that's what I would do. And it could be a change of jobs. It could be a change of location. It could be helping with the babysitting. I all those kinds of things. But but uh subsidizing her doing nothing >> is not a good plan. >> No. >> No. That that's we're both in agreement on that. >> Hey, thank you for the call and I'm so sorry y'all have been through this. What a horrible horrible thing.

>> Okay, folks. Um I'm going to sidebar and it's going to sound really callous, but here's the thing. when you're 30 years old, even in Canada, um you can buy

half million dollars in life insurance for the cost of a pizza.

So, go to Xander Insurance right now and

make sure you have your your term life insurance in place. Yeah, Dave did a commercial. Now, you can say whatever you want to say. I've been endorsing this company because I think you need to go to Xander Insurance for 30 freaking years. So you for the dadgum cost of a

pizza, I don't have this conversation I just had.

So we had a young lady in Financial Peace University, we videoed it and put it in the video with her permission, put it in the the old class that we used to have uh that she and her husband were 23 years old. They went through Financial Peace University, went and bought a million dollars worth of life insurance and he got by hit by a car 3 weeks later. >> Good grief. >> And she gave birth to their new baby.

>> Jeez. for like a month and a half after he died. >> Yeah. >> And she comes on the video with and and says, "This is what having the this is what having a million dollars worth of life insurance means to me right now." >> Mhm. >> I'm 23 year old widow with a baby.

>> And I can't get my husband back. I can't do any of those things. But for for just a few dollars, I'm I'm you know, this is

an act of love. I'm set up. >> Yeah. >> I'm set up. And yeah, that's the problem. Um because we don't know when we're going to go >> and um you might get old and ugly like me or you might go out on a motorcycle like him early.

>> Um that's not, you know, so um and it's

not to bismerch that young man at all.

He obviously had some insurance, took care of the >> debts for the family. She's got a paid for house. She's that he did a lot of good stuff there. There's no question about that. But I'm just saying guys, this is opportunity to remind y'all that that it just doesn't take a lot to to to

completely say a whole different conversation up. >> Yeah. >> It there's no good conversations when someone dies or gets killed in their 20s. There's no good conversations.

[music] But when they got little kids, a little wife, little husband left at home, a and they're sitting there with a half million dollars or a million dollars, or they're sitting there with nothing [music] and having these conversations about how to come out of the workplace to take care of two two littles. Uh, man, it's

incredible.

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[music]

[music] Okay. If you're going to win with money, you have to tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went. If you don't know where all your money went in 2025, that's normal, but normal sucks. We don't want to be normal. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading Every Dollar. The app Every

Dollars you build a personalized plan so you can work the Ramsay principles, coaches you to find extra money, and put it all to work to beat debt and become wealthy. Answer a few questions. Many people find thousands of dollars on average in just the first 15 minutes.

Every dollar still has the same great budgeting features, but it's also going to help you work the Ramsey plan now.

New and improved. Don't go into the year feeling broke and stressed. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play right now. James is in Rhode Island. Hi, James. How are you?

>> Good. Dave, how are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, I'm a 40-year-old guy. I got a fiance and a baby who turned two in July. And my fiance and I, we have three Airbnbs that are doing really well. Uh four years into it, um last

year we grossed about 102,000. Uh this

year we're go we're forecasting to do about 127,000 gross on the three Airbnbs

with a 62% profit margin. Day job is

hospitality sales. I make about 120,000

a year. She is a psychologist. She makes

about 110. So, her issue is um there are

these microlo and another one is available, but it's in a super historic old building and I'm thinking about getting a fourth Airbnb, but the banks

are telling me that I got to put 40% down and they're going for about two and a quarter. So, I want to hear your take if I should

get another profitable Airbnb

and have it under the same roof as all

my other ones, or is that considered maybe too high risk?

>> Okay. Um,

well, I

not sure you called the right show. I'm not sure that you know what we do, but um the uh um so I own several hundred

million in real estate. Okay, I love real estate as an investment.

>> Um I went broke in the real estate business in my 20s if you haven't heard the story. >> And the way I did that was I borrowed too much money >> and um the banks called our notes because we were in a high-risisk scenario. Um the Airbnb business is

basically the hotel business.

>> Mhm. >> Uh it's a very high laborinttense, you know, a lot of hassle. So the money

that you're earning on those Airbnbs, you're working your heiny off to get that money. >> And you're probably working I am >> you're working some other people's heiney off because it's a lot of hassle.

>> I'm the maintenance man. I'm the housekeeper. I'm the guy checking them in. Yep. Yeah. I mean, and you have a two-y old away, so >> Yep. >> Yeah. Why don't you pick up golf, too?

Oh my god. You know, I mean, you ain't got time to do nothing. Um, so, uh, I I

don't know that you have the bandwidth to add another one on your personal number one. Number two, the risk with

Airbnbs is that, as you probably know, and I don't know where it stands in Providence, Rhode Island, but many HOAs,

many neighborhoods, u many entire municipalities are passing zoning to stop it >> because they're disruptive to the neighborhood. Um, and so I know a lot of

people that have lost the ability to run an a Airbnb on a property they bought for an Airbnb.

And in a historic setting, that's very possible, >> right? It's it's in a unique building.

It's the oldest mall in America where there's retail on the first floor and the second and third floor was repurposed to Airbnb. So, it is in a commercial zone. >> Okay. So, that means the risk of them reszoning it and keeping you from doing it is less.

>> To my understanding, yes. Okay. or it's going to take one new tenant downstairs that's a big tenant that says I don't want people living upstairs.

>> Well, we're all on the board >> now. They're already got residential in there. It's just a matter of whether it's nightly rental >> okay >> residential >> because it's a hotel in a sense. So, I don't know. You're you're doing some things I don't want to do and and I don't recommend people do things I don't want to do. So, number one thing you're doing is you're buying property with someone you're not married to. Very dangerous. Number two, you're going in debt to do it. Very dangerous. Number

three, you have a high-risk business

model that's dependent upon someone else

called Airbnb. Very dangerous. Number

four, you have to do all the freaking work and you're getting ready to add 25% to the workload going from three to four and you have a two-year-old. Very dangerous. So, that's what I meant by I don't know if you've been around us much. And I'm not trying to be mean to you. Uh I just think I think that all you have seen in this is the upside.

You've not considered any of the downsides. And that's the way I was in my 20s. And it's what caused me to go broke. And so now I'm always looking.

I'm not negative thinker. I buy I mean, like I said, I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. I love real estate, but I have low hassle real estate. I don't I don't own a single Airbnb. and we've got enough residential I easily could do that, but we don't want to screw with it. It's just too dead much work for the money, too much drama for the money. And so, we'd rather

make the money um you know, a little slower and with a lot less hassle factor. And we don't borrow money. 100% of our real estate's paid for. I don't borrow money to buy real estate. So, I'm a fan of the category of real estate,

but after that, I've kind of given you some things to think about. Um, so until

you've thought through all of those things and make sure that you've decided how you're going to own what ownership vehicle you're going to own this in with someone that you're not married to. Ooh, real dangerous. Um, you know that that

you get yourself into all kinds of messes here and I think that's what the bank is smelling and that's why they're wanting a huge downstroke. Um but um you

know a a good way to look at any business opportunity too James is to scale it in your mind and if it doesn't scale then don't grow it. Meaning if it

works for 40 Airbnbs we might do four. If it works for four

but not five or not 10 then maybe we

shouldn't do four.

>> Why is that? Well, because it's going to it's the the the idea is not scalable to

where you get out of being the maintenance man.

>> You you you just have to keep absorbing Yeah. >> more work and more work and more work >> and pretty soon you're going to go, I want to quit my job and be Mr. Airbnb, >> right? >> And that's not >> your one Airbnb app change or one Airbnb

municipality change or your one >> Yeah. Apple decides they're not going to support the app anymore. >> That's right. with 13 point whatever. Oh

my crap. You know, I mean all kinds of people. I mean it c that c that little move right there cost us about $20 million two years ago.

>> So uh you know that just cuz Apple decided to cough and so um you know all

that stuff. So these are things you can't anticipate and you leave yourself vulnerable to it when you're just living

right on the wire when you're right on the edge and then you just keep adding to it. Keep adding to the plate till the food falls off, you know. And that's that's what I heard here is a really super busy guy, >> ambitious guy. >> You said this and man, this has become increasingly um

I felt it heavier and heavier. I have a very real lived experience being in the workforce during 2008 2009 and there seems to be a lot of folks who have entered into 2010 to 2025 and it's been seemingly

mostly upside. It's just been win after win after win after win. plus or minus CO. Yeah. >> And yeah, plus or minus CO. And there's the assumption it's just going to keep going that way. And there's no

man, it's tough to tell somebody, hey, you have to be prepared for when this thing goes south a little bit or when the roller coaster takes a, you know, goes down and man, people don't don't have the psychology for it right now.

>> Yeah. I mean, if you've got your thing based on the Airbnb income of four and

suddenly they don't rent for four months, you're in bankruptcy.

Whereas if you own them all in cash, you're annoyed. >> Exactly. >> Or you put or you put renters in. >> Yeah. >> And you get out of the Airbnb business and you move on, you know, and that's it's not a big deal, >> right? >> You know, but yeah, this is it's a problem. Yeah. So, no, I'm um I I I like

James cuz he's ambitious and he's going after it. He's going for it. Um I want to support that, but I I believe in being a nightmare killer, not a dream killer.

>> [music]

[music]

>> This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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[music]

The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Why Refi? You can't change the past, but you can change your next move. Y Refi helps people with defaulted

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Amy in Mississippi. Amy writes, "I have been dating a kind, loving man for the last three years. We begun talking about marriage and moving in together.

We both like the idea of keeping my house in my name, in his house, in his name, and living the next 10 years in my house, and then the last 10 years of our lives in his house. This is all assuming we both live to be 80 and we can live independently. I've been thinking about our wills and trust, and currently I have all of my assets to be left to my two adult children, and he has all of his assets to be left to his two adult children.

Especially if we're on the same page about doing it this way.

No, it's perfectly fine. Just make sure you've taken care of the one left behind. I mean, you know, so we've hear

the stories of, okay, you're in his house, he dies and leaves it to his kids and they want you to move out in three days cuz they want that money. They want that house. And so, you know, you need to kind of figure out a way. Well, they wouldn't do Oh, yeah, they will. Oh, yeah, they will. Yes, they will, too.

So, you have no idea. So, I'm fine with y'all leaving everything, but just figure out a way that he is cared for if he happens to be living in your home that he gets to live there a year or

something and that there's some and then make sure he's going to have enough money to eat if you die before him and vice versa. As long as you've made sure the other one's in good shape financially and is going to be okay. But if you've got enough money that you're independent, if he dies, you're fine. He you die, he's fine. then that's perfectly fine to do this. But just just make some clear

communications and some clear things in the will to make sure that that you don't get tossed out of the house on short notice or something. I don't want you living there 10 years, but after he dies, but if you if the intent was for the kids to get the house, but but 10 minutes is not okay either. So, you got to kind of think about this stuff and don't just assume everybody's going to be nice. write it down and tell everyone

what it all says and then tell them they're going to do that and then they will that's what they have to do so they might as well be nice you know that that but I don't have any problem with that you >> now would you recommend I I've never even thought about this question let's say two 65 year olds two 70-year-olds in this situation financially established or getting remarried um is this a situation where you'd still have both people put their money in one checking account or are we living pretty independently at this point. And >> I I would operate the household off of one checking account.

Um because we're not talking about the incomes. We're talking about the I mean that I would combine my incomes. >> Yeah. >> And live as one household, but then if one of you dies then that the other one's income is going to go away either because the investments were left to the kid or the p pension dies with the person.

>> There you go. >> Right. So you're back to your half or your portion to live on and and you know just make sure you're able to live on your part. He's able to live on his part when something happens.

If you are, then this is very clean and you could even This is a situation where you could even do a prenup. >> Yeah. And and and >> and it' be fine. >> I'm thinking about this in real time.

I like the idea of us joining >> Sounds like they're 60 >> joining our Yes. joining our money together and saying we have two light bills. We have two water bills because we have two houses together. >> Yeah.

What are they doing with the other house during the 10 years they're not living? >> Guess they're going to rent it out would be my guess.

Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. So, you got to have time to renovate the house that you weren't living in before you have to move back into it because you've been renting it >> for 10 years. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's a decade. >> That's something to think about. So, >> yeah.

But that that's the only part of this. Just just have a real clearcut a and think through the details >> and write them all out as a part of the plan, as a part of the will, and then talk about it with both your kids. You're getting everything, but she gets to stay here for six months. Yeah.

you know this and so on. So you can you know you that all of that is possible >> and if one of these houses appreciates 200% if we have like what happened that's in your name. >> That's in your name. That's right. >> Yeah. You're you win. Yeah. Your investments appreciate 200% his don't.

>> Or one of yours falls off a cliff.

That's Yeah. >> That's what happened. >> That's how how it worked out. Elisha is with us in Knoxville. Hi Elisha. How are you? >> I'm good. Can you guys hear me?

>> Yes sir. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling about a question. My

in-laws want us to pay them back for the money they spent on my wife's unfinished college semester.

>> One semester.

>> Uh, yes. >> Why? >> Uh, well, well, I don't really know where to start with this, but um, I started dating my we got

we got married a couple months ago. When I started dating her, she was in college for engineering and I pretty quickly found out that she absolutely hated it.

Uh she was miserable and it also made me miserable. Uh she also has a heart condition, inappropriate sinus tacoc cardia and it was making that way worse.

Uh she also got really sick in the

spring semester of 25. She came down with double pneumonia and was just unable to keep up with classes. So, um,

she dropped she dropped the semester and

currently she's a ball and dance teacher. She doesn't have plans to go back. Uh, we've got married since then.

Her college up until that point has been paid for by a fund left by her grandfather, but her parents say that they were unable to get the money for that. And, um, from what I am told,

that's about $6,000 that they want us to pay them back. Um, and it's not a lot of

money, but it's a lot of money for us.

>> No. >> Why? >> Are they Are they Are they objectively not good people, or do they not like her marrying you? >> They're really not happy that you got married. >> They Correct. Correct. Um, this first

came up actually as a way to stop us from getting married. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and the main reason that they were against us getting married is they for

since she was like 10, they really pushed her to go to engineering. And when I was talking to them to get permission to propose, um I her mom specifically asked me that

I need to tell her that her degree is the most important thing in the world to me. And I couldn't do that. Um I got permission from her dad, but not her mom. And my mom really doesn't like me.

Um and I we haven't heard anything about

this since we got married.

>> How long you been married? >> Pushing up before then.

>> We've been married since August the 2nd.

And how old are you?

>> 21. >> Okay. All right, honey. This is not going to go well. >> Yeah. Sorry, man.

>> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah. >> I just I I want I want to do everything I can. >> This is not This is not about tuition.

This is about control. >> Yeah. >> I I I know. >> This is a flex.

>> The ultimate flex. And so you just you

just have to look at them and smile and say, you know, I'm sorry. We can't do

that. or really her their daughter needs to do that. >> Yeah. Just tell mom sorry we can't do that. >> Well, I'm sorry we can't do that. Don't

don't get into an argument. Don't try to explain it. Don't try to get into some kind of moral construct because there's not one. This has nothing to do with moral constructs. >> And by the way, is is her are her parents um the in charge of this money

from this fund or could your wife go back to school in five years if she wants to go be a therapist or something?

So, her aunt is managing the fund. Um, I

don't know how much money there is left in it. To be honest, they recently told

my brother-in-law that he has to stop going to the school he's currently going to and go to the community college near them because they there isn't enough money for him to go there. >> Okay. >> Um, >> but that's what that's why they didn't get their $6,000 because there's not any money in there. >> Let me say this as blunt as I can. The relationship that you think you're trying to preserve for your wife is already gone. Has never been there.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. If you repay this, these are still two very unhappy parents.

>> Yes. >> And then there'll be another flex pay >> and another flex. >> Anything at all or would it end up?

>> No. It just kicks the can down the road. It will come up when you have your first kid or it will come up in another >> There's nothing to do. >> No. And you don't have $6,000. That's what's even >> I'm sorry we can't do that. Yeah. I would not say why. >> I would not say when. I would not [music] put terms to it. It's a simple closedended one-s sentence reaction.

Mom, I know you'd like for us to do this. I'm sorry we can't. That's it.

It's over. And it's not going to go well, dude. These guys are going to go off like rockets cuz this is a flex.

It's a It's a boundaryless power play.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author. He's my co-host today. Open phones at825-55225.

Warren is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Warren. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So um we um make a decent income, but

we're living paycheck to paycheck and I got to get this figured out. So I was calling for help. >> Okay, cool. So what's a decent living?

What do y'all make?

Uh well, it now we're making about $140,000 a year collectively. Um I was

laid off for um I'm not laid off for

three years. I was out of full-time work for about three years and was doing part-time work. >> I recently took a full-time job with as

a town job. Um she makes around 9,000

and I make around 50 right at 50,000. So

that brings us to 140. Okay.

>> Um the challenge is I just we make our

mortgage and we make a car payment and

>> how much is your mortgage >> by the time we pay?

>> Mortgage is 21.87 and that's with an

adjustable rate mortgage of a 5.6.

>> Mhm. And what's the car payment?

>> Um car payment is 465.

>> Mhm. What's the other car payment?

>> It's a uh we don't have another car payment. I drive a 2003 Corolla.

>> Gotcha. Okay. So, what do you owe on the car that's you that's a 465?

>> Uh 29,000.

>> Okay. And um uh what other debt have you

got?

>> Um we have one credit card of $4,000 and

then we have my daughter's college loan

which is 50,000.

You have parent plus loan or what?

>> Yes, parent plus loan.

>> Okay. And you're paying on that now?

>> We just started. That's 316.

>> So, she's graduated.

>> Yes, she's working. >> Okay. And what else?

Um, we have a area a um the water

treatment system that's 109

that we owe 6,000 on that.

>> Mhm.

>> And outside of that I we that's it.

>> Okay. >> From a debt perspective. >> Yeah. Do you have any money saved?

>> We have about 4,000 in in savings and we have a little over 500,000 in retirement. Good. Good for you. Okay.

All right. Well, what you've described,

Warren, uh is normal. Uh the only thing

is around here we say normal sucks because all the money comes in, all the money goes out, and only the names are changed to protect the innocent. You make freaking $140,000 a year, and you feel broke.

>> Yeah. True. >> Yeah. >> I'm 56, she's 54, and we're now to the

point where, you know, I You know, we want to retire when we're 67.

>> How How long have you been back to work?

>> Uh, a month. >> Okay. [laughter] All right. >> I got my first paycheck next week.

>> Good. Good. Okay. All right. Good. So,

now you're like, "Okay, we got to fix this. Uh, we've been kind of treading water for a while. Uh, now I'm back in the saddle and let's tear into this.

Now, what do we do?" If that's what you're asking, we can help you. uh the prescription is ra the the the the you know the the prescription that the doctor's going to give you is rather painful though >> we're going to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else and so what I will tell you to do is for the two of you to sit down tonight open up the app every dollar and start filling out what you're going to do with this month's money and the two of you be in agreement on what you're going to do with this much money you stop all retirement savings temporarily You stop eating out.

vacation. You're broke and deeply in debt. And you have a mess to clean up so that you don't retire and have to eat dog food cuz that's where you're headed if you don't fix this mess. House is okay. The rest of this debt has got to get paid off. And you know, you've got $85,000 worth of debt. And you got to

quit buying crap on credit. You need to get the credit cards out and cut them up. List your debts smallest to largest.

Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And attack the little one like your life depends on it. But part of what you're going to have to go through emotionally is you're still recovering emotionally from the time

that you didn't work for a while, which took a little bit of your confidence away. I hear it in your voice.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> And so I want you to get like you're 18 again. to stick your chest out, throw your shoulders back, and get after it again. Okay.

>> Okay. >> I can do that. >> The fact that you didn't work for a little while is not the end of the world. You're working now. You're a good man. You're calling. How can I take care of my family? I got to clean up this mess from my daughter's college tuition.

I got a car that's expensive. We've been spending some money on a credit cards. And we bought a water treatment thing we couldn't afford. And cuz we didn't pay for it. That's how I know we couldn't afford it. So now we got to stop all that crap and get in attack mode and clean up this debt. So making 140, if

you paid 40 on your debts, you'd be debtree other than the house in two years. So you ought to be debtree in 18 months.

>> Okay? >> But you're going to have no life during that 18 months.

>> And you and your wife got to lock arms and go, we're fighting this like the devil is at the door.

>> Right? And if you fight it with

>> me. >> Yeah. She'll go side by side with you.

She stuck with you through this last patch and let's get it, man. And that that's the thing. So, it's a reset of your emotions after the unemployment thing. So, I went broke in my 20s and uh

lost everything cuz I was stupid. And it one of the things I lost with it was some a bunch of my confidence and my self-esteem. And I had to rebuild it in a different way that wasn't just arrogance and cockiness, but instead I rebuilt it just based on solid wisdom

gradually. And uh so I ended up becoming a different man the other side of going broke. And and that's how I can hear that in your voice because I had it in mine and I recognize it.

>> Mhm. >> So you're a good man, Mor. >> I appreciate it. >> You're a good man. You're a good dad.

You're a good husband. you you're not afraid of work and you can do >> you can do hard stuff if you drive an 03 Corolla man, [laughter] >> bro. I've been there. >> It's got 300,000 miles on it.

>> And you know the problem with that Corolla, it's got it's going to go another 600,000 miles before it dies on you, man. >> The only thing I have to pay for is the paint to paint it. [laughter] Spray paint.

>> So yeah, you're in >> I know it's mine in the parking lot. I never >> Will your wife sell that car? Her expensive one? >> Yeah, she will.

Yeah. >> Okay. may want to do that to to accelerate this process to get your life back. Because if you didn't have any payments but a house payment and you two were together doing a budget every month before the month begins, giving every dollar an assignment, you're going to see margin in there.

And that margin will allow you to build wealth that after you get out of debt. And that margin will allow you to increase your generosity.

>> We'll do it. Our conversation this weekend was being a good steward on what God has given us. And um >> a lot here's what's cool. You're calling here in the beginning of December.

Here's a way the cosmos is going to call your bluff. Instead of doing Christmas presents for you this year, I want you to I want you to get that $4,000 credit card gone.

>> I can do that. >> And that can be the great gift you'll give each other is full commitment. And that's going to be better than any trinket or any knick-knack you're going to get under the tree. >> Amen. The two adults that is >> the two grown-ups. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hang on. We'll get you signed up for the every dollar premium. We'll give it to you as our gift. We want to be part of your story cuz you're going to turn this around. I can feel it.

[music]

>> [music]

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If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click in the description. John, this book is absolutely amazing. I am so proud of Jade. It is the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there.

She just speaks from the authority of experience. >> Dude, I had her on my show and it's one of my favorite episodes of all time. It hasn't been released yet, but um I've traveled the country with her. I've shared meals with her and her husband Sam.

They're good friends of ours and I did not know the depth of the story behind the money. >> Oh yeah. >> And if you are >> She tells it all, baby.

and you're also dealing with the guilt part and the shame part and man she un

unravels that in this book. You got to get it. Um it's it's it's next level.

It's so good, man. It's so good.

>> Yeah, I agree. Completely >> gifted gifted writer and storyteller.

>> Yes, she is. Yes, she is. And you're going to you're going to find out that uh she understands right where you are, but also to show you how to go win. And that's one of our specialties around here. So, very, very good stuff. Good tools to win. Casey's with us in Birmingham, Alabama. Hey, Casey. What's up? >> Hey, how are you, Dave? >> Great. How can we help?

>> I appreciate you taking my call. So, my wife and I just recently found out that she was pregnant. Um, it's not like we were necessarily trying to avoid it, but we were not planning on it happening this fast.

Uh my question is I have an emergency fund that's about 6 months uh a little over 6 months. Uh we both drive old cars

that neither one of us have had to have any car payments on. We're completely debtree other than our house and we've been throwing all of our extra money towards our house to get it paid off quickly. So I don't necessarily have a ton of extra money to just pay for cash out of a for a car. So, should I pull my money out of my emergency fund to buy her a a safe uh, you know,

family-friendly car, or would you think that it'd be okay for me to finance the car, but pull all the money that I've been throwing at the mortgage, get the car paid off within the next year to avoid a ton of interest payments?

>> Isn't it fun how a baby on the way just makes you grow up, [laughter]

>> man? I'm telling you. So as as if you would put your wife >> in an unsafe car where she's going to die.

>> Your wife is not driving a car in which she is going to die. You would not have done to that to her before she was pregnant. You love her.

>> Well, well, to be fair, she's had this car for >> To be fair, if you thought she was going to die because this car is unsafe, you would not let her drive it.

>> Have you ever Have you ever seen a newborn

Yes. As you know, pretty much as big as the palm of my hand. >> Exactly. That baby will do great in this

car for 6 months, for a year.

>> Yeah. >> What are you What are you really worried about? Are you just trying to be like the best possible husband and father you can be, and you're just looking for every possible way where you can make this thing world class?

>> I just want She's, if you saw her car, she's in a 2009 Scion XD. It's a little box car with with the door panels.

>> All right. You had me a box car. I may be with you on this one, dude.

>> So, [laughter] the thing is I I mean, I

can afford to save up and pay for it a year from now, but again, she'll be giving birth and be severely pregnant within the next four to 6 months, 7 months, you'll be giving birth. >> Yeah. All right, honey. The baby can ride in that car that you have.

>> It's not a pretty car. >> It will not hurt the baby. It did not hurt your wife. It's a safe enough car.

Is it an ideal car? Absolutely not. It's a piece of crap. But babies have ridden in pieces of crap since time began. And your baby's not going to die from read and you're not a bad dad. And no, this is not an emergency. You just got pregnant and you're thrilled and scared and hyper responsible all of a sudden.

And that's very cool. So, what I want you to do is um you do you have any debt except your home? It sounds like you don't. No, we don't have any debt.

>> Good for you. And don't ever call me and ask me to get a car payment again. I'll kill you. All right. Now, once we got that out of the way, cuz I love you. All right. I'll kill you. So, that's it. So, [laughter] now, so the uh the the uh so what we're

going to do is we're going to just save.

And >> so, the baby is due. Do you have a due date yet?

>> Uh July next year. So, you know, we got

some time. >> So, you got eight months.

Yeah, about seven. >> Okay. How much money can you save by July?

>> Um, about 15 to $20,000 if if we really just

buckle down and I work a bunch of overtime. >> Okay. Well, so the car she's driving is

worth the car she's driving is worth what? Two or $3,000?

>> Uh, yeah. At the most. >> Okay. So, uh, go ahead and pick out the car that she would like. That is $15,000.

And be the month before the baby comes, go buy it and pay cash for it.

>> Okay? >> And don't touch your emergency fund.

>> Okay? >> Save the 15,000 between now and then.

That's a very nice car, by the way.

>> Especially when we compare it to the piece of crap she's driving today.

>> Pretty much anything is a luxury.

[laughter] A Rick Shaw would be nicer than what she's got. >> Yeah, one of those new electric bikes.

Yeah. But yeah, but yeah, the um Man,

>> and by the way, you don't have to go from a 2009 to a tricked out 2025.

>> Yeah. >> No, absolutely not. >> 15,000 will buy a lot of car if you if you watch what you're doing. It's crazy.

>> I I The reason why I called today and asked is I was planning on doing the

saving for the next six months and then shelling all that money out for for a car in cash. But I saw a car that is

essentially what we want and it's has a really good engine, transmission, reliable. It's a it's a decent price, low mileage, oneowner, >> and I said, "Man, I could get this car now and not have to worry about it in 6 months. I don't know if that car is going to be available in 6 months." Oh, believe me, there's another car. >> There will be one.

>> Can I Can I [clears throat] paint you the other side of this?

>> Mhm. >> And I hate to even put this in the ether, but I'm doing this cuz I love you. Is that cool?

>> Mhm. >> All right. Um, you buy this car on a car

note and then your baby is born and there's

some complications and your baby's in NICU for two months or for one month.

Yeah. >> And things get real complicated real fast, but this car note keeps showing up at your door.

I would much rather you have $15,000 in cash about to pull the trigger on a car and you've gone into what we call stork mode around here and you've got some margin to take care of everything until you're holding a nice, wonderful, healthy baby, which I which I'm confident what's going to be.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, listen here. All that happened is you got really excited and hyper

responsible because you're going to be a daddy and that means you're going to be a great daddy and you're a good husband and you care about everything that's involved here and you want to make sure your family's taken care of. And that's caused you to jump the gun and all we're

doing is saying down boy.

>> You're okay. Down boy. >> Stay the course, man. You've done so good. >> You're going to be great. You're gonna be a good dad. But just don't get pregnancy brain. Only one is allowed to have that and that's her. So you you have to just chill. Let's ride this out.

Everything's going to be okay. You could wait till she comes home with the baby before you buy the car even. >> Yeah. Bring it bring the baby home in your car. >> Yeah. And um baby's not going anywhere for a few little while anyway and then everything's fine and then you go out and buy a car that she looks at on the internet and you go buy it and everything's good. >> And the meta lesson here is stop buying box cars.

>> [music]

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>> Henry is with us in Atlanta. Hey Henry, how are you?

>> Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I work as a personal assistant for a client and it's a great job and I love working for her. Um, I've done it for the last two years and over the last two years the scope has creeped quite a bit.

Um, I used to work like 9 to2 and now it's more like 8 to 5 and my pay hasn't changed and I just don't know how to have that conversation of I feel like I'm on call 24/7. I got a call on Thanksgiving to book a flight and I just need my salary to reflect the value that I bring to my client's life and I don't know how to do that. >> What do you make?

>> 4,500 a month as a flat rate.

>> That's low. Yeah. For that >> it is low >> for a 40 hour for a 40hour week. I mean yeah for that position >> and that's not including the weekend calls.

Like I get calls I got a call at 2 a.m. to come get the dog to go to the emergency vet. That was a few months ago. It's just I love my client and I love not having like a corporate job, but I need I'm I'm in baby step two.

I paid off a ton of debt this year and I'm facing down the last 10k and baby steps three and four just seem further and further without side hustles and that's not the point in those steps. >> Exactly. >> Are are you are you looking for more money to stay with this client or are you looking to not have weekend on call 2 a.m.

I would rather have more money and work more. I love to work and I love that I have this very privileged job. Okay.

>> But it needs to be reflected in my pay.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. So, the easiest way to remember to do this is just flip the script as they say, let's walk a mile in the client's moccasins.

if you were the client, okay, and you had someone that was taking good care of you and describe, you know, and and you

probably are aware that you've increased their hours and that you've started to add some weekend stuff. You're probably aware of all that, but you hadn't thought much about it. How would you want to be approached? Well, I'm an employer. I have a thousand folks working for us, okay? Close to,00. All

right? And so how do I want our leaders

to be approached when someone wants to talk about their compensation? Well, number one, with gratitude,

>> with honor, >> definitely >> not belligerance, and not entitlement.

And I didn't hear any of those in your voice, by the way. I'm not correcting you. I'm just helping you. So, I I think you have a very I think your your your voice tone and the way you're approaching this does not have any tinge of spoiled brat or victim in it, which is really what I don't want to hear.

Okay? So, you're you're really already on a good foot. So, I I would just sit down and just upfront just say, "Hey, I'm really enjoying this. I love working

with you. my hours have expanded and and

you seem to be using me more on off hours and um and I'm working to get out of debt and uh I'd like to figure out what I can do for that to end up being

reflected in my paycheck. Can we talk about that?

>> Can I add one wrinkle to that? >> Sure. >> So, in September, I went through a pretty bad health scare. I was diagnosed with diabetes and I had to course correct everything very fast or I would probably not be here December 1st. And I had asked I said, you know, can I get a small raise? And to me it was $500 cuz that would cover all my supplies. And her reaction was, oh, I can't afford that. And then today, um, we were just

kind of talking. She had a meeting with her financial folks and they literally said, "You need to spend more." So, I just I don't know. I feel like the purse is a little bit tight and I don't want to rock the boat too much because again I don't want to go back to the corporate world. >> Well, I think you could go do this for someone else and make twice as much.

>> You're in Atlanta. >> You're in Atlanta.

>> So, jump on jump online and see what what personal assistants

working for someone make in Atlanta, Georgia. I think you're going to find it's more than you're getting paid.

>> Okay, great. >> And let me let me say this. If you have the kind of supervisor

or you have a supervisor/boss CEO, you've got one person who's over everything in your life, right? Um, >> right? >> If that's the kind of person that you can't sit down and have this type of conversation with, that's a person who lacks integrity and just basic kindness

and I don't know that I'd want to work trust my weekends and 2 a.m.'s with that person regardless.

Like I've sat down with Dave and we've discussed things or I've sat down with my leader and we've discussed things and I haven't got what I wanted sometimes and I trust him.

>> We got heard >> and there was good reasons given not I can't afford it and you know >> you know what I'm saying. >> So uh but if they're if they're illogical about this so from an employer's standpoint in general a

position is worth what you can hire the next one for.

>> Right. And so if you're a personal assistant at Ramsay and you're making400

and the next one's going to cost us 6,000 >> then that's the marketplace for that position and that's what that becomes worth. That's very impersonal but that's one way to look at a comp model. Then beyond that that position is worth how long you've been there. My personal assistant Patty has been with me 23 years. She can finish my sentences.

So her worth is worth is much greater

than what the next person in to replace

her and she's retiring and I'm going to have to do that. So which is driving me crazy but yeah but the the >> I'm available. >> Yeah, there you go. But you see what I'm saying? So, but the point being, I mean, she works here in the building and uh and has for all this time, but but the her longevity here and her knowledge base inside this organization makes her more valuable than someone in the marketplace, not less valuable.

And so a ton of sense >> whatever it takes to hire the CEO of an organization like this, a personal assistant, an executive assistant, um

the then Patty's worth more than that, 23 years worth. Okay. And gets paid more than that, by the way. So which is good.

She should I'm happy to do that. So in your case, you know, you're providing extra beyond the normal 40-hour work week because this is a very residential kind of a an arrangement. And that's cool. Well, I like that. I think it's a cool service you're providing. Uh, and I I think your client may be a bit unsophisticated in their analysis of what this costs.

So, you might have to even provide go, hey, look, I'm not trying to leave or anything, but I looked it up and here's what some other people are making doing this. And it kind of made me think, what do I need to do better to be able to be worth that to you? And because this is what, you know, if you hire somebody else, this is what you'd have to pay.

and just help help your client's level of knowledge base. Uh but not in a belligerent way, not in a threatening way and be very very careful. Um and but

that approach it like you would want to be approached where the shoes reversed.

Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. Jesus called that the golden rule. And and let me let me throw this out there, Henry. Prepare yourself for her to look at you and say no. And then you're gonna have um most people, I

don't say most people, many people will head online and talk bad about their boss and they don't do this, they don't do that. I would call you to a higher form of character, which is to say, "All right, cool. I have a grown-up decision to make.

Do I want to stay in this job at this pay >> at this pay >> because my boss has been clear or do I want to look for another um person like this CEO and because I like this work or I don't want to go back to corporate America but right now I have some financial needs and so for the next two to three to five years I'm going to go do that. But it's you looking in the mirror and saying okay here's what I can control and I'm not going to be a complainer. I'm not going to be a whiner.

I'm gonna say, "Okay, I shot my shot and she said no, and then I've got to make some grown-up decisions now." >> Yeah, that's exactly right. That's good, good input.

so that that's very good, Henry. And I I I you know, my hope is is that you can provide some facts in the type of voice

tone that you used with us. And um and

those facts also would give you some confidence to have the conversation and make it very serious conversation, not a threat. Uh but this is what's going on.

And so, you know, if one of our developers comes in and goes a developer that's a, you know, a dev dev 3, you

know, they make 220,000 in the market right now, you guys are paying me 180.

We go, "Oh my gosh, let's look at that. We must have messed up something." >> Let me let me ask you this, Dave. over the years when an employee has come to you and said, "I have this thing in my life and I need more money versus

hey, here's what the market is. Here's >> I don't Their need for money is only that's a ministry. >> We do that. That's just generosity, but I'm not changing your comp." >> There you go. That's what I was getting at. But when someone comes and says, "Hey, my hours have increased. My responsibilities have increased. This is the market. Now we're having a business conversation." >> And that's a reasonable conversation.

That's a job. Yeah. But beyond that, it's me taking care of somebody that I love. There you go. That's generosity.

But that's not a comp discussion.

Our

scripture of the day, Job 17:9, the righteous will hold to their ways and

those with clean hands will grow stronger.

James Clear says, "You don't have to be the victim of your environment. You can also be the architect of your environment. There it is. I like that.

Alyssa's in Chicago. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

>> So, I had a question um regarding rent.

Um, I was wondering if you recommend to

stay living at home, which is my current situation at my parents house, paying

$1,000 towards my parents' rent or

moving out.

>> I'm I'm taking it since you're calling.

It's not a good living environment.

You know, I'm the oldest of four kids.

So, I'm 30 years old and the youngest is

19. And so, we get in a bit of tiffs

here and there. >> Okay. Why are you back living at home?

Why are you living at home at 30 years old?

So, I did move out a couple years ago um

in the city with my ex-boyfriend and things didn't work out. So, I've decided to move back home and hammer down paying

off a debt. I paid off 10k in student

loan debt. So, I cleared that out.

>> What do you make? >> I saved up 70k.

>> 70,000 and you're 30 years old. Okay.

And um what do you do for a living?

I am a digital content specialist, but I'm looking to pivot into UI and UX design.

>> You're looking to pivot into what?

>> UI and UX design, visual experience design. It's like web development and like app design.

>> Okay. And that would pay more.

>> Yeah. Significantly.

>> Okay. So, if you're home cleaning up like I'm 30, I've got some I made some

choices. I that I that dug me a hole. I got to clear myself out. >> How long you been back >> then? That's one thing, but

>> I want to say like two or three years and I was able to save up an emergency fund of I think like 3 to six months. I

forget exactly, but like a 12K emergency fund. And then I also saved up 15K for a

car that I would eventually buy. And then I'm saving up for like furniture.

>> Okay. >> Or I'll just

>> at 30 years old, if you're not sick and

you haven't been abused, uh you there's no reason for you to be at home. You need to be like a grown-up woman and stuff and go have a life.

You're freaking 30 years old. You make $70,000 a year. What the heck are you doing in your mother's basement? Yes.

Move out. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Buy your own milk, girl. Buy your own electricity. Yeah. You do not need to be living under mommy's roof at 30 freaking years old. You've stunted your development. Yeah. Stand up. Square your shoulders. Go be somebody. It's time.

It's past time. Like three years past

time. You know, if someone goes through

a let's say that she went through an abusive thing with a boyfriend and she comes back home to heal a little bit, six months or something like that. So, we want to provide a safety net for our

grown kids, but not a hammock.

>> This is ridiculous. That's a good line. You need to get out of here. >> Yeah.

>> Well, and and you said it best. There's a there's a safe place to be. Let me say this. Like, it's like going to the hospital when you're sick, but you got to leave the hospital or you're never going to get stronger again.

and you got to go back out and let your immune system do its work. You got to let your bones do its work. Let your muscles do its work. You got to get back out there and it's uncomfortable, but you got to get back out there.

unless there's something you're not telling us, which I I have in my guts that you are, but yeah, it's time for you to go get your own place and get back out there and join a bowling league or go join a book club, join go do something, but get back around other adults your age. Um, and don't hang around. >> Neither of which go bowling. But yeah.

>> No, dude. They're coming back. Bull leagues are coming back. >> Is it really? It's zooming back.

>> It's ironic. It's like James in his tight shorts and Fender guitars. Like these guys are bowling again. It's coming back, man. >> The cool the cool kids are bowling.

>> I don't I wouldn't call Yes. >> You just made all that up. >> No, I'm serious. I'm serious. I read about it. You could They're They're coming back because here's the thing.

Kids lives are awful on screens and they're like, "We got to start doing something." >> And bowling was the answer.

>> One of many answers.

>> Wow. I like the a good bowl.

>> You do? >> I'm terrible at it. I'm the worst.

>> Oh, I would say >> I'm worse at bowling than I am at golf.

And you know how bad I am at that. >> Yeah, you're happy Gilmore for sure.

>> I'm not good at that. >> Yeah, teeing it up in the fairway. Yes, he did. He did do that, boys and girls.

I watched it happen. All right, so yeah, honey, you need to move out. That's no question. Okay, next is Tristan in [laughter] San Francisco. Hey, Tristan. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Hey, John. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

Um, so I'm going to be proposing to my girlfriend and we agree on most financial things. Um, I've been talking about not using credit cards or building a credit score like Dave teaches, but I

struggle uh to explain how people get approved for things like apartments without a credit score when landlords check it. And so my question really is, how do people practically live without a credit score? And how can I explain that to her? >> They do all the time. There's a few landlords that check it, but we did uh we've had George got on his YouTube show and called a whole bunch of apartments and every one of them took him in the he he just said, "Hey, I'm moving to town.

I don't have a credit score. I just got out of school. Uh you rent to me." And they went, "Yeah, no." You know, you have month, two months deposit, whatever. And yeah, we'll rent to you.

Just proof. You need proof of employment. But u I think I think two out of like 20, like 10% of them said they wanted a credit score or they wouldn't rent. The rest of them said, "Sure." That's mythology that everybody spreads. It's absolute freaking lie.

When you actually do when you actually start calling apartments, they rent to you.

>> Yeah. The same thing with housing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Some mortgage companies don't know how to do a no credit score loan, but again, George and uh you know,

George and his wife got Whitney, they got married, met here, got married here and um well, they're both working here and they went and bought a home with no credit score from Church Hill Mortgage and um somebody else did >> I me I do the same thing. They do manual underwriting. >> It's called manual underwriting. Yeah, you do it with a no credit score all the time.

You just got to But not all mortgage companies know how to do it. So you can't just walk into any old mortgage company because a lot of them are dumb.

That's credit score lending. There's no brain involved. They just they just could depending 100% on the algorithm.

>> But it's mythology because it's not a measure of financial health. Yeah. If I gave you $10 million, your credit score wouldn't change.

>> Mhm. >> So it has nothing to do with your wealth. It's not a wealth score. It's like a dating app for how well you've dated um debt in the past.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I tried to explain that to her one time, but I didn't really have the words to tell her. Um she's really good at paying off her credit cards and >> Oh, well, >> she uses them, but she >> Let me tell you what I am, too, cuz I don't have any.

>> Yeah, >> I'm really good at it, too. >> I'm I'm I'm not good at it. So, I've been uh >> Hey, how old are you, Trist? >> Rid of them now. >> Uh I'm 24. >> All right. I learned this lesson in an embarrassing way in front of a college president at the age of 28. Okay. So, you got a four-year head start on me.

You ready for this advice?

>> Yes. >> Never enter into a persuasive argument without knowing your facts and figures.

>> Mhm. >> So, if you think I should you shouldn't have a credit score and she says, "Why?" And you go, "Uh, >> I heard on radio >> cuz there's this podcaster. He's awesome." And then you're going to lose that. So do your homework on that and that'll be work in your marriage and at your workplace. >> Yeah. And just you know you can jump online. There's plenty of our clips and

things you can get on explains how the whole algorithm works and everything on the credit score. It's a complete charade.

100% of the math in in the algorithm to

build your credit score has to do with how you interface with debt. It is not your income. It is not your net worth.

It is not anything to do with health or wealth when it comes to anything. All it is is did you borrow money? Did you pay it back? What kind did you borrow? How much did you borrow? It's an I love debt score.

And if you don't love debt, you get a real low one. I've had a zero credit score for decades. It's not

determinable. That's what they call it.

N. That's what I am. I'm an ND. I like it.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 259. You Can’t Hack Your Way Out of Debt | September 11, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the Ramsey Network. Dr. John Deloney Show is

my co-host today. Open phones here at88255225.

Joan is in Florida. Hi Joan. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. I would like to know

if if it's okay if I lock my husband out

of my savings account.

Wow. Tell me more. Sounds pretty dramatic. >> Yeah, it is. Um, we've been married for 45 years. Um, uh, probably 20ome years

ago, we got into some credit card debt, a lot of credit card debt to the point where we had to take out a second mortgage. Um, I also borrowed against my 401k and it took probably 10 years to

claw out of that debt. And I mean, we were really good about budgeting and um now we are we've have our home paid off.

All our cars are paid off. We had absolutely no debt until probably the

last year. Um I picked up a second job before to help, you know, get the this debt out. Well, I've since left my second job and um we are just spending I

say we, it's not really we, it's him. um

is just spending way more than what we're bringing in >> on what? >> Um oh just he is just he bought a boat,

he's bought a truck to pull the boat, he's bought uh road bikes, he's bought

mountain bikes. Um he has gone through

$40,000 in savings in the last year

buying these things. >> What is your all's net worth?

um net worth. Our home is worth probably

650,000.

I have uh 650 in my 401k. Um I had

50,000 in savings and now I have I guess there's about eight in there now. And >> you keep using the word I. >> How much does he have in his 401k?

>> Nothing. >> Okay. So you have a net worth of a million and a half dollars give or take.

>> Correct. >> And your household income is what? It's

82 between the two of us. It's 82,000.

>> And you guys are in your 60s.

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And so what kind of midlife crisis is this dude having at 60?

>> He is he's saying that he wants to get all these things bought before he retires and he plans on retiring next year. So he wants to enjoy his life. Um

we sort of had a significant event happen in our family. Um, we had a

family member of ours who just worked himself to death and died in his 40s and

um didn't enjoy life at all. Didn't enjoy any of the money that he made. So, um, my husband was like, "Well, he's not going to do that. He's not going to be like that." >> It doesn't sound like the problem is the boat or the truck.

It sounds like you come home from working your second job and all a sudden there's a new boat in the driveway. >> Oh, I hate it. I look out there and I see it and I >> No, no, no, no, no.

>> That's the problem.

>> I agree. >> You didn't you didn't know this. You didn't go along with these purchases.

They just occurred.

>> No. Well, I did go along with the boat, but I didn't realize he was going to spend as much as he did on it. And I didn't realize that um he it I mean, he

just keeps putting more money into it.

>> For people that have been married 45 years, you all suck at communication.

>> Yeah. Not good.

>> Yeah, I agree. I agree. or did he just change it on you? Have y'all been communicating well for a decade and then all of a sudden this went sideways?

>> Um, no. No, this isn't this isn't new.

Um, we've never really agreed on finances. Um, you know, I'm I'm more of

let's save, let's put it aside, and he's more of let's enjoy it. It's just gotten it's just gotten bad in the probably last year. >> Joan, I I appreciate your frustration and um and even your anger and those are justified. All right. But the problem is

not the savings account. That's the symptom.

>> Okay. >> The problem is you all are not aligned.

>> I agree 100%. >> You're not unified. And so I don't think I'm hearing you say, cuz you said, "I went along with the boat." I don't think I'm hearing you say that you're opposed to enjoying some of the money. Uh, what

I do hear you say is you don't like being surprised and um and people

running roughshod over your hard work while you're working two jobs.

>> Yes. >> And that that's fair. >> Second job. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> I gave up the second job. Yeah.

>> But to compare your all's life in any stretch of the imagination to the 40-year-old workaholic, he's not even on the same planet. So, you can't use that as a justification to do something stupid and lie to your wife.

>> It's the dishonesty. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you really do for the sake of

I mean, if you're in your 60s and you guys are healthy, you may have to be fighting with this old man for another 30 years.

>> So, you need y'all need to really work on this and get on the same stinking page >> because I agree. >> Yeah. Sharon and I make more money and have more money and I don't buy any boats without Sharon knowing what the boat costs and make and we make the decision together beforehand. And if the boat involved a truck to pull the boat, we would be talking about that, too.

We don't just make this up as we go. When I come home and go, "See what I did, honey?" And we've been married 43 years and I'm 65 years old.

>> Okay. >> And here's the other side of it. He's not on the phone. So, just you are.

>> Yes. >> The Gottmans are um

like kind of the goats when it comes to marriage research. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And they created this thing called the the the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. They can tell with 90 plus percent accuracy after watching a couple communicate just for a little bit whether they're going to make it or not. And the the relational

dynamic of contempt where one person

thinks they are better than the other person is the number one predictor that this thing's not going it's going to fall apart.

And listening to your language, this is mine. I put this in my account.

He has nothing.

I'm wondering if there's not a dynamic in your marriage that has established itself over the years of you're the good one and he's the bad one.

>> Yeah. >> You're the you're the you're the smart one. You're the one who saves and he's the child. And these dynamics have a way of self-reinforcing themselves.

Doesn't give a pass. It doesn't give an excuse for his dishonesty, his lying to his wife, his his >> impulsiveness. >> Yeah. Acting like a child.

But it creates a context for where if you're going to treat me like a child for 40 years, I'm going to act like a child. Doesn't excuse it. And if he was on the phone with me, Dave and I'd be letting him have it. But you have to say, "This is a dynamic that we have co-created for 40 years where I think I'm better than him because I make more money or I had a second job or I have retirement." >> The quality of his soul would be greatly increased if the two of you could mutually respect each other, dignify each other with being in agreement before we make major decisions.

>> There you go. And that usually starts >> and that also includes combining ownership of everything.

of stuff. >> And when you sit down to have conversations about um feeling dishonest, whatever, if you sit down and say you went out and did this again and you did this, he's going to fight you.

He has to. You've declared war. If you sit down and say, "Hey, I'm hurt. I'm scared. I feel this way. Start the conversation with I statements and that can be an invitation. And then if he continues to act like um a child, then we're going to have to respond in some different ways. But you got to reset this whole communication pattern.

>> Yeah. I I you guys got to work on your skills. That's it. Your skills are low.

And that may mean sitting down with a marriage counselor who's not who's teaching you how to develop these skills.

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Brooke is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Brooke.

How are you?

>> I'm okay. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, hi Dave. I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um, so just a little backstory.

I'm 27 years old. I'm a single mom finishing my MBA. I work full-time and I raised my three-year-old son mainly on my own. Um, I live with my nana, but I would like to move out sooner rather than later due to differences and just wanting to move forward in life.

>> Okay. I do have some student loans and a little credit card debt, but I feel like I'm in a constant cycle of just, you know, just trying to keep up because my income is not very high. >> What's your income?

>> Okay. And you're finishing an MBA when?

>> Uh March 2026.

>> So 6 or eight months. Okay.

>> Yeah. And I do currently have my bachelor's in computer science. Uh, >> why are you making 20 bucks an hour then?

>> Uh, because I only work as a customer service representative. I'm having >> You have a You have a four-year degree in computer science.

>> Oh, I mean I I I know. I I I apply to jobs constantly and I graduated in

August of 2024. So, I've been out of school for quite some time.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, your career search

process is not working.

Thus, you have a horrible income compared to your education.

>> Your MBA is not going to make this any better. >> Yeah. >> If we don't fix the career search process.

Agreed.

>> I I definitely agreed.

>> Yeah. Let me let me promise you that they're not going to suddenly start calling you just because you got an NBA.

And there's a weird moment where the NBA might be a liability because they don't want to pay somebody an NBA salary who doesn't have the experience that that NBA salary would require. Does that make sense?

>> You might find yourself. >> You might find yourself in a in a leadership gap. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, we got to get we got to get your career moving, kiddo. That's the issue.

>> What challenges have you had?

I think the main challenge is just that

my I have to work from home because I have no help with my son.

>> Oh, >> and that's a major >> Yeah, that that's an issue. Yeah.

>> What about child care? Are is this not something you want to do?

>> It's not something I necessarily want to do. Um I did recently try it. Uh my my

son had a hard time adjusting. Plus, it's just so expensive. >> Yeah. >> And with just my income, it's just hard to make it. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, if you suddenly start making $80,000 a year and you put him in daycare, this whole thing changes >> and he's going to adjust, >> right?

>> Right. >> Kids do every day and there will be a tough adjustment period. He's been with you every day since he was born and there will be a tough adjustment period.

>> But yeah, I think I think the problem is >> I'm not sure where to go from here because I I I probably have applied to

3,000 jobs if I'm being honest.

>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.

So, here's the thing. Applying for jobs never works. You can't get jobs that way. Um, and I'm going to walk you through what to do, and we're going to give you some help on that part.

>> Um, but part of the problem was is you demanded to work from home and be a full-time mom while people were paying you for working, and they didn't want to do that, and I'm not shocked by that.

>> I wouldn't hire you either

under those circumstances, okay? Because I know what you're doing. You're changing diapers. You're not working.

That's the employer's viewpoint. Okay?

Work from home productivity sucks.

Corporate America and people that hire people know that, including me. Okay?

And so this idea that you get a full day's work out of somebody when they work from home. No one is under the illusion that's happening.

And it's all in the name of work life balance and I want to be with my child.

All of that's great. You just got to decide some options here. So, if you want to work from home, you are limiting the the quality and the number of positions you can get making 70, 80, $100,000 a year by 90%.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you you can't this is not an option for you in this situation. You have too many competing goals.

I want to be home full-time with the kid and I want to make a lot of money. These are competing goals. And so, I don't blame you for that. Those are all legitimate feelings and legitimate goals, but you know, you're, as you said, I'm a single mom and so I'm boxed in this corner.

So, there's a period of time here that um that we're going to pay a price to get this family, this little tiny twoerson family stabilized and sustainable. Now, back to the other thing, the practical parts of looking for a job.

have uh we hired at Ramsey, we have,00 team members. Last year we hired uh just under 200 people. Okay.

>> Uh we had 15,000 applications.

That's what you that's what you're putting your your name in. >> It's known as a needle in a hay stack.

Okay. So, you don't get through to good

positions simply by filling out things

on uh LinkedIn and on whatever other

automated resume posting process you're using is to get 3,000 applications in.

3,000 applications tells me you had absolutely no contact. You just filled out the stuff and went and it went right in there and and no one saw it. It's one of the 15,000 that came in here and we only hired 200. But I'll also tell you every person when I've called HR and said,"I know this person Steve or I know

this person Susan and she's applying for a job here," a 100% of them have gotten an interview. >> Not all of them get hired. >> They don't all get hired, but they at least they it puts them to the stack.

>> So, you got to know someone or know

someone that knows someone that knows someone that says, "Hey, my friend's friend Brooke is solid. She's finishing up her MBA. She put in an app over there the other day. Hey, would you guys at least give her a look?

And you got to work the phones that way. You got to work the emails that way. And it it could be somebody down the street. It could be somebody your granny plays bridge with.

Their grandkid works over there. I don't care. But some connection. It doesn't have to necessarily be a professional connection.

wife the other day, a lady that she

was playing bridge with, a lady, the grandkid applied here at Ramsey. So then the grandkid gets a look. I don't think we hired that one. But they get a look and they wouldn't have got a look otherwise. And you're not getting a look. That's the problem. >> Yeah. >> So Ken Coleman calls this the proximity principle to get in proximity of the people doing what you want to do. What field are you wanting to go into other than it?

I mean I I I mainly look at positions for software developers, but again it's

>> Are you are you are you you have the ability to write code?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I do. >> Current code.

>> Um maybe not up to date. I mean, I definitely could learn it if it was something that they would, you know, give me the ability to do.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, your information systems, your four-year degree would give you the ability to do more than just write code. and your code if you're going to be if you're going to simply crunch code. Um, yeah, you're

going to have to really be cutting edge on that to get that position. So, anyway, I'm going to put you on hold.

We're going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Proximity Principle. I'm also going to send you a book called Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. But my advice to you would be to decide what it is that's most important and become comfortable with the discomfort of that decision. Okay? If it's most important that I go make 80 to $100,000 a year moving towards my MBA. Otherwise, there's no point in getting this MBA.

You're just collecting degrees. You're not a thermometer. Okay? So, you just keep going along, going along, going along. And so, decide where it is I'm going to go and then what I've got. The the Earl Nightingale used to say that the impediments to success are not what you're willing to do to get there. It's what you're willing to give up to get there. And so if I'm going to be out in my own apartment and we're going to have a sustainable income, it's not making $20

at Target um to grow our life together with this baby. It's going to involve some daycare

and it's going to involve being at the workplace or the other trade-off is you're going to be you're going to be at Nana's. >> I'm going to be at Nana's for seven more months until this little one goes to preschool and then I'll make that move.

But it's all going to come with a choice. And I think Dave, the challenge that people in her demographic, they went and got the degree everybody told them to get and they said at the college, you're going to make this much money when you graduate. People thought, a that means I can live wherever I want to have this stuff all right when I walk out the door and you've got an a third challenge, which is you're a single mom.

>> I want to be at home. >> And so you're going to have to make some sacrifices short term and really get on the phone, start calling everybody you know and every friend of everyone you know. And that's going to be your way in the door right now. >> And their friends. Yeah. And that g get a get somebody to pull your application out of that needle in the haststack.

[Music]

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David is in Pennsylvania. Hi, David. How are you? >> Uh, good afternoon. Fine. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, just wanted to call in. Um, a company is uh switching a little bit of uh staffing model. Uh currently we have company cars uh and company paid gas

cards affiliated with that. Uh we're going to switch that over and I have to turn that in by the end of the calendar year here. Um we're going to get a tax-free stipend uh and mileage paid

from the company going forward into next year. Um so I just wanted to talk

through that with you guys and see what uh some of the best ideas would be. Some of the guys I uh work with are talking about leasing or getting something brand new. Um my wife and I, we've been on

your program for a while, so we we know where you stand with taking loans out on cars. >> Good. >> We haven't had a car payment since 2018.

>> Good. >> So, we're in there. I just feel a little

um up here. Number one, it's obvious and

we'll just say it out loud to make sure everyone knows. The reason the company is doing this is it saves them money.

Translation, it's going to cost you money.

>> Okay? The net net effect of this whole thing is you're going to it's a pay cut.

Okay? So, because by the time you operate a vehicle, the stipen doesn't cover it. They know that or they wouldn't be doing this. And so, there's no other reason to do this. and that's why they're doing it. But that's that's neither here nor there. It's still happening. Um and that that's where we

are. Does the uh how many miles a year do you drive?

>> Uh I'm pretty fortunate. You know, I would say 15,000.

>> Oh, so you're not you're not you're not a road warrior then. Okay, good.

>> No. >> So, uh they they're going to give you the stipend whether you have a car payment or not, right?

>> Yes. >> Do they have guidelines on the on the age of the vehicle or anything?

Yes. It It can't It cannot be uh It's got to be less than 8 years old.

>> Okay, cool. All right. Do you have any money?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, go buy a car. Wait a minute.

Oh, you don't have a car? Cuz you're only running You don't have a second car now, right? You already >> uh we we do we have two other cars, but

the one my wife uses to run around with the kids. The other car I have is is uh

12 years old. And >> Okay. take some money in the 12-y old car and upgrade >> to a 5-year-old car with cash and then

take the stipen.

>> Okay. >> No, no payments. >> Just pay just pay myself back out of a stipen then. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz here's the thing. If if something happens, god forbid, and the company goes broke or they lay you off or fire you or you decide that they're unethical and you have to walk out one day, uh you still got a car payment.

>> Yeah. Or here's what's going to happen.

They start by not letting people go and they get rid of this pro. They get rid of the everyone gets a car program to a stipen program. The next cut they make, they're going to couch it as we didn't have to lay anybody off, but we had to make some sacrifices and it's going to be the removal of the car stipened.

That's what's going to happen. >> But you're but you got the car payment independent of whatever they do. And so you don't take a car payment. No. Um, and and you know, I think you probably upgrade your car a little bit anyway if you got the cash to do it. Uh, put a little bit with a 12-y old car and get a 5-year-old car or whatever and and then collect that money, put it in your pocket, get your mileage, put it in your pocket, and uh know that the good news

is with you because you're not driving any miles, you're just driving back forth to work. I mean, 15,000 is nothing. So, uh, a little bit more than

that, but I mean that's not that's not like high miles. Road Warriors are putting 40 50,000 miles on a car. So, um, uh, um, the good news is with you, I

might be wrong. You might actually net out on this. >> It could be. Yeah.

>> The more miles you put on it, the worse this is going to be for the other people in the company. They're going to lose their butts. >> I give this program 18 months. I I I'm

willing to bet that this is a phase out of we're taking care of our employees vehicles and this is a way they're going to phase this out.

>> Even if it's not a planned phase out uh you know 36 months from now you got a new CFO and they're looking at the whole thing again. We're trying to meet beat stock price and >> whatever the thing is whatever it is I don't know >> we can let go have to necessarily be with malice. No >> or forethought or evil but it's just it's just corporate America. They're going to look out for one thing and it ain't you, >> right?

>> And so, uh, but either way, yeah, take the stipen and put the money in your pocket and upgrade with cash >> and don't count on it. Don't start budgeting it. I mean I mean obvious I I mean budget it, but don't start pretending it's forever and >> which is what people do when they take a car payment. That's exactly right.

>> Well, company gives me $4 $500 and that means I need to go get a $550 car payment, right? >> Nope. That's not what it means. Mary's in Louisiana.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

Um, I am wondering if it is a wise decision to be paying for life insurance on my mom to protect myself financially

from my parents' financial irresponsibility when she passes away.

>> You're not responsible for their irresponsibility when she passes away.

>> Right. And and that is what my husband has um recently been trying to

>> not only morally but legally or not.

>> Okay. So, if your mom your mom if your mom tell me about your mom's situation.

How much how much debt does she have?

>> It's got to be over $100,000.

>> Okay. Do they own anything?

>> Not outright. >> No. But I mean, do they like have a house?

>> Yes. >> They have cars with car payments.

>> They still they have no car payments.

They still owe on their house. My mom is 66. My dad is 61. Um >> Okay. So, if you were to guess, if you added up all of their debts, do they even h own enough to cover their debts?

>> No. >> No. >> Okay. That's called a negative net worth, right?

>> Yeah. >> And so, what happens when someone passes away? When you die, what you own stands

good for what you owe.

>> Okay. >> There's no generational debt in America.

>> It doesn't get passed down to me.

The other half of the reason on why I did it is because um my if my dad passes

away first, my mom is going to be okay.

And then I guess it with what you just explained, I wouldn't inherit any of the debt. I would just have to clean up the mess and close it out.

>> Oh. Yeah. You just send them all a death certificate with a letter that says you're screwed >> and they'll go away. Okay.

>> They may have to sell this home if you had your eyes on this house. >> Yeah. Yeah, you don't get to keep anything of theirs.

>> They're going to sell the house. >> I'm not expecting anything at this point. >> Okay, I see. But I mean, but if you wanted to keep the house, now you got to go clean up the mess cuz the house is standing good for the debt. Even if it's not a direct lean on the house. What you own down one column versus what you owe

down the other column. Assets minus liabilities. That's how it stacks out.

And you have to sell all the assets to pay all the liabilities. If there's anything left, it's called an inheritance. If there's nothing left and it's in the hole, the bank is screwed.

They shouldn't loan these people money.

They get what they deserve. >> Mary, I'm going to ask Dave a question on your behalf. Okay.

>> So Dave, let's say there's a house worth 350 grand. It's got a hundred,000 bucks left on the on the mortgage. So there's 250 in equity and this family owes

$270,000 in 401k loans and whatever. Who

is responsible for selling the house?

and you have to would she as the as the

trustee or the beneficiary um or the person the executive of the will would she have to sell the house and then disperse the the equity of that house or does she just hand the keys over and say merry Christmas y'all do get out. >> You could do either one. Even if you're the executive you could do either one.

You could just say I choose not to invest a year of my life to get you people all paid and I get nothing. So, the credit card companies and the car dealerships would have to sue the mortgage company or >> they'd have to put leans on the house >> and then after the foreclosure, if there was anything left on the house, then they would get that. But, yeah, it just depends on what how much trouble you want to go to, okay? >> And how much of your life you want to invest in quote sweeping up the the mess after the garage sale.

And so, um, but you're not obligated to.

died with like 14 credit cards and he was in an apartment and he had nothing.

So, that's a simple one, right? You really did just send them a copy of the death certificate and a note that says you're screwed and those credit card companies got what they deserve, which is nothing cuz they shouldn't have been loaning that guy money, right? He's a palper and so they you know that that's an easy one to clean up. doesn't take much time and you know don't call me

>> and they're probably going to try to chase down their money, call you, threaten you, whatever. >> I just jump in the creek. I don't owe you anything. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I didn't You ain't got my signature, buddy. >> Yeah. >> So, that that's the deal. And that's that. But >> much better thing would be if you could get mom and dad to actually work on this. I know you probably tried, hun.

Wow. That's so sad.

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or click the link in the description and we'll take you straight there. John is in Arizona. Hey John, how are you?

>> Hey John or hey, sorry. Hey Dr. John and Dave. >> Oh, you can call me John. That's what my mama calls me. That's perfect. What's up? >> Perfect. Thanks for taking some time.

Um, hey, so we just our family, we just finished building a home. We moved in last month. Uh during the construction, we were able to cash flow a good amount and the remaining mortgage is $600,000.

We're still working to sell our old home, which uh it's paid for. We should be getting around $500,000 from that sale. We have about $880,000 between

investments and retirement and $100,000

in cash that has our emergency fund and some earmarked funds to landscape our new home. Uh, the question is with the 500,000 from the sale of the old home, I'm I'm kind of wrestling with not wanting my net worth to be so topheavy with home equity versus investments, which is what it would be if I put it all towards that mortgage. Just want to get your advice. >> What's your household income?

>> It's right around between 300 and 400 depending on the year. >> Okay, good. Way to go. And what's your uh what's the new home worth?

>> Um, total we cash flow about a million.

And so it would be about 1.6.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. You're you're you know your house is a high percentage of your net worth and you're not going to get away from that. You made that decision when you decided to build a $1.6 million house.

>> Yep. It kind of got away from us there.

>> Yeah. That doesn't change. Scope creep is what got you. It wasn't the uh it it really isn't the the um the net worth situation doesn't change if just because you're hi you can't hide from it now by not paying off the mortgage. It doesn't accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. So, what I would do is um

you know, I'd get that mortgage paid off as quick as I could. You got 500 to throw at 600 when the other house sells.

And then I'm going to take a chunk of my other money and knock out that last hundred. Might use some of that emergency fund instead of putting the bushes in for right now. Let's get the stinking thing paid off and I'm going to get it paid for. Uh and then I'm going to start moving in that direction.

So the the what what we've discovered to answer your overall question philosophically so to speak not really philosophically but practically that that's your tactical answer that I just gave you. Now strategically your answer is this.

As we were working with wealthy people, what we find is the larger their net worth, the smaller the percentage of

their net worth is on personal things.

Home, cars, vacation homes, toys,

whatever. The smaller your net worth, the higher the percentage is on your home. So, for instance, if your net worth's a half a million dollars and you had 300,000 of the half a million in a

paid for house, that's not disturbing.

That would be fairly normal.

But that's about your ratios and you're sitting there with about a $4 million net worth,

three and a half, right? And you got half your net worth right now sitting in your house. So, that's starting to be disturbing. It's not anything to panic about, but we're not buying um any more

personal crap on the net worth column side for a while. You just did it.

You're house poor. Not technically house poor, but you see what I'm saying? You need to get the balance back, rebalance your net worth, and because by dumping everything into other investments that are non-personal investments over the next whatever number of years to where when we look up in a few years, you have a $10 million net worth. And of that, the house has doubled and it's 3 million. Now, that starts to be pretty comfortable.

But like I talked to a guy the other day that, you know, we were looking at his numbers. He's got a $100 million net worth and a $10 million house. So his

net worth is only his house only 10% of his net worth at that and yours is over 50%. So that that's the but again that that follows with the line of thinking of the higher your net worth the smaller

the percentage of your net worth is going to be in personal home cars vacation homes toys so on and so um you

know you take a billionaire and they've got an $8 million jet and the billionaire has a couple of homes they still it doesn't add up to even 6% of

their net worth in personal consumption

and so that that that again validates the concept of the higher the net worth, the smaller the percentage. So, but yours is as high as your net worth is, I I don't disagree with you, John. It's a little bit unnerving to be there, but being in debt doesn't change it.

>> Well, and you called it out. This call should have happened before we we decided what size house we were going to build. >> You've already you've already committed it. So, >> cows out of the barn.

>> I want to I want to take that risk off of my risk profile. I'm gonna pay that sucker off. >> Yeah. That that that helps helps situation.

It does >> helps the sleep at night factor, >> right? That's right. >> Just get it paid off and then let's just Okay, we have made our >> personal consumption pledge for the next six years. >> That's it.

>> And we're we're sleeping in it. >> And in reality, that means we're going to be aggressive. We're going to put 15% in these mutual funds. Are we going to up a little bit?

>> Yeah, we're going to up it because you're everything's paid off. You're baby step seven. So, we're start doing investments out here big time and there's not going to be more much more personal. So, if you go to the beach and your friend has a nice condo at the beach, uh-uh, you can't have one, >> right?

Because you you instead of buying a $700,000 house and a >> beach condo. >> It's a beach condo. >> You your beach con. Put some sand in the bedroom.

Yeah. I mean, that's that's what we're doing here. This is that's where you are now. So, just a little beach there in the set in the master in the second master suite of the 1.6 million.

Yeah.

no more mama, you know, mama wants a Bentley. No, mama ain't getting a Bentley. It's not happening here. >> We got a $100 million house.

And here's the beautiful thing. You make 300 $400,000. >> You clean it up real fast. This is two or three years.

>> Okay. It's it's more of a it's more of a uh it's not a you're stupid discussion or you've done something extremely dumb discussion. It's just like I'm with you, John. I'm a little nervous about it.

And I would based on that start making the moves to not be nervous. First one, pay off the debt. Second one, redistribute most of your investing away from personal issues from the for the next five, six years. And then you'll get it bounced back again.

Cool. Victoria is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi,

Victoria. How are you?

>> Hi guys. I've had better years. Uh >> oh. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm calling because

Sorry, I promised myself I wasn't going to get emotional, but I feel like my life is at stake. It's >> okay, Don. >> I really don't know. I really don't know what to do. Um, we have a business. It's

It's a trucking company. Um my husband is one of the drivers and we currently have another one. >> We have two trucks you're running in the trucking company.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Uh we had more but we've had really bad

luck with drivers that really did some bad things for us. So >> we are selling some things to try and liquidate the assets to pay off some of the debt. Um but essentially we're probably about $400,000 in debt. How much of that is the two trucks?

>> Um, one of the trucks we own outright.

The other truck we still owe probably about $75,000 on.

>> And what is the truck the uh the truck you own outright worth?

>> It's probably worth about $100,000.

>> And what about the other one that you owe 75 on?

>> Um, it's probably worth about 40.

>> Okay. So, that's 140 of the 400 in debt if you sold both those and went and got a job.

>> Uh, correct. >> Okay. I'm just catching up. All right. Now, what do you own a home?

>> Uh, we we actually own three. So, we have three mortgages and all three of them are rented. Um, >> okay. Do they any of them have any equity?

>> One of them has equity. One of them we owe we owe 267 on it and it's probably

worth about 450,000. Sell it

>> today. Put it up on the market today.

>> Okay.

>> So, okay. I'm a little short on time.

I'm a little short on time. I'm going to give you a a Ramsey coach >> as my gift to sit down with you. Okay.

>> But you're call me up emotional and thinking you're bankrupt. And um when I sell everything, which is what's going to happen in a bankruptcy, I don't think you're bankrupt.

But you're going to have to turn loose to some things. You can't hold on. You can't be the monkey with the hand in the bottle holding on to the jelly beans cuz you can't get away from the bottle. You got to let go of the jelly beans. Pull your hand out of the bottle. And that's how it works. I think you can get out though. I wish I had more time with you.

I'm sorry. Hang on. We'll get you some help though, kiddo.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, PhD in counseling, is my co-host today. Todd is with us in

Texas. Hey Todd, how are you?

>> Hey guys. Um, I had a question about uh

I'm going to be 59 and a half in about six more months. I just had a birthday and uh my uh Roth IRA at my work. Uh

I'll be able to cash that out without uh any kind of penalties and it's the one where you pay your taxes in advance. So I'll be able to get the whole amount out. >> Yeah, I know about that. We own a small Yeah, we want to we want to uh build a

small excuse me a cabin and uh it looks

like I'm going to have about $140,000 to work with and we've talked to a couple of builders and we can get about 900 to a,000 square foot place built for that.

My question is, would it be more prudent

to pull that cash out because it will take all of it and go ahead and build

the cabin and and be debtree as far as any kind of a mortgage or would it be more prudent to actually borrow the money and leave that in there because I think it's getting to the point where the uh compound interest is really starting to to build over the years.

>> Money, that's not how compound interest works, >> is it not? No, compound interest does not like get a running start. It um Oh,

really? >> It just is you just make interest on whatever's there and over time you make

interest on whatever's there and whatever's there is larger over time, but it's not it doesn't mathematically get a running start. So, do you have any other money?

>> Uh I have I have a little bit. I have

about 8,000 in my savings account. My wife >> What about your wife? Are you married?

>> Yes. and my wife probably has four or five. And then we have a household account that we have about uh probably another four or five. >> Okay. >> So, you're you're 59, you quit work, you're going to retire.

>> Oh, no, no, no. And you're going to be broke. >> No, no, no. I'm not going to retire.

>> You can't take your money out of a 401k unless you work unless you don't work there anymore.

>> Uh, that's not what they told me. This is a TSP and I work for the federal government. >> Okay. All right. >> And uh No, they told me when I >> Let me tell you what you just did. You you have absolutely no investments now.

>> No, I would not. But I was we would both still be working.

>> Yeah.

How's that make it smart?

>> Well, I mean that's why I'm calling you, buddy. That's why that's why I'm looking for an answer, my friend.

>> The answer you're not going to do my answer. Okay. My answer is you can't afford a cabin.

>> Oh, really? >> You don't have enough money.

So told you weren't going to do it.

>> But now that's not my only uh you know I do have you know I have the social security and I have a furs retirement account with the government. >> I know. >> Are you familiar with those? >> Yeah I am very Yeah. Um the but but I

mean you dude you have no money in a

cabin.

>> Yeah. >> That's just there's no way that this makes sense. the the the the reason I'm

see here's the thing. If I wait until I'm 70 years old to when I can retire

and then I build a cabin, what good is a cabin going to do me? I'm going to be 70 years old. >> Well, you won't have to eat the logs.

>> Well, my my thought was go ahead and you

know, we have a home. We'll we'll build the cabin and in a year or so if it's

looking like it's not working out, I could either sell our home, our primary residence, and move to the cabin or I

could sell the cabin. You know, I guess what I'm saying is

>> beneath the thing. What's the thing?

>> You you've wanted a cabin a long, long time >> and you haven't saved up enough money to buy a cabin.

Well, it's it would be in the the TSP account. >> I know you haven't saved up enough money to buy a cabin because you're going to have to retire broke with a cabin. And

that just doesn't I can't tell you to do that. I'm I'm not I I like you too much

to tell you to do something that's going to bring you harm, sir. And this is harmful to you. You're going to have You've In your mind, you're not worried about having no money in a cabin. I'm

really worried about you having >> too many calls from 65 and 68 and 72 year olds. >> And so, um, you know, if you want to go stay in a cabin, rent one for the weekend and keep your money in your investments.

And, um, you know, you have not saved enough money. You've not done a good enough job with your investments to be able to afford to have a second home.

And you just don't have the money. I mean, it's like calling me up and going, "Dave, I want to buy a $2 million yacht,

and I've always wanted one." Well, you don't have the money. I'm sorry if you always wanted one. And it breaks my heart you can't get your $2 million yacht, but you don't have $2 million to buy a yacht. It's the same thing. You don't have the money to do this. You think you've got the money, but when you go do this and you use up all your money, you're going to be living on social insecurity broke with a cabin.

And that's just I'm sorry. I can't tell you to do that because I like you too much. I think you're a good guy. You're going to do it anyway because you've got it all figured out, but I can't stop you. But you did call and ask and so I'm

duty bound to tell you the truth because I care about you.

I I'm kind of speechless, Dave, and that's a rare moment for me.

Well, >> I get really really wanting something,

but the thought of the thought of relying on the government 20 years from now, like, no, they'll get they'll take care of me. They'll write that check.

That that seems infinitely more foolish than I don't know. Yeah, I can't wrap my

head around it. Doesn't make any sense to me. >> Yeah. The And here's an interesting thing, folks. Everybody Everyone falls for this, and I have in the past, too, and some of you do are doing it right now. that if you borrow the money, it's as if there's no like I haven't um

like that doesn't count.

>> I I still got my money in my account.

>> I still got my money, right? >> Is because I borrowed the money. It's like it's like it allows you to be in denial. >> Yes. >> It it's you're participating in denial when you borrow money because you're you're you're you're not admitting that

you don't have the money when you borrow money. >> There you go. >> Okay. I I borrow I bought this car that I didn't have the money to buy. I didn't have the money to buy the car, but I bought the car anyway cuz I'm I'm in denial about the fact that I don't have the money and I wanted the car anyway.

And so, and I work really hard. There's that old saying, whatever you go looking for in the world, you're going to find it. If you really want a cabin, you're going to figure out a way that this somehow makes sense to you, which is why it's good to have wise counsel. But wise counsel doesn't do you any good if you don't listen to wise counsel.

>> So, I guess my promise to you, brother, is buy the cabin. I'll be here in 10 years and you can call me when you're trying to figure out what you got to sell and I'll help you with that. But we'll be talking again. >> Yeah. >> I just I can't wrap my head around that.

And by the way, I really really want a

hunting place with a big cabin on it. I really do with all my heart. I want that. I just don't have the money for it right now. And >> No, you really do. Personally, you're not kidding. >> I personally really really want that.

>> So if he if he builds it and gets in trouble, would you buy it from him? >> Depends on what county it's in.

how many deer it's got on it. But yeah, I'm happy to. I'm sure there's I got a feeling there's some deer around it. He's in Texas, man.

>> Oh man. The proverb says that the wise

sees trouble and takes refuge.

The simple moves forward anyway and is punished for

it.

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This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. All right. As a society, we tend to overshare sometimes. We tell

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That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Not in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Andrea in Ohio. Andrea writes, "My partner and I

have been together for over 25 years and we have four children together. I've been asking him to marry me since we had our first child.

Oh jeez. He recently stated that we can

get married if I sign a prenup. He had nothing at the start of our relationship is and his business has grown significantly. He has over 300 employees and his net worth is in the millions.

I gave up my career 20 years ago to raise our children. We are financially well off and he has taken very good care of the children and me. Dave is so sick.

I don't even want to finish this. Is he wrong to ask for a prenup? I love him, but wonder if I should just let go the idea of marriage.

I don't really I don't really know how I can help you. I think you let go of the idea of marriage 25 years ago when you started having kids and >> Andrea, you made a really terrible bargain. >> Yeah.

>> You gave up everything and he gave up nothing.

He raised his kids and helped him build a business and he owns it. You made a

terrible bargain 25 years ago.

>> Yeah, this breaks my heart, man.

>> And you know the the

the ship has sailed. I mean, there's I

you know uh >> by the way he >> here's another I mean I'd call his bluff, but I don't think he will.

Um because I think this guy's a jerk.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think the reality that you feel very very exposed, you felt exposed for 25 years >> is because you've been exposed. >> You've been exposed. I also think if this was to go to court, I think you would have some claim to a lot of this stuff, but it's going to be a mess. An absolutely >> I have no idea what Ohio law is on this

kind of stuff. You certainly got child support coming out your ears. the thing beneath the thing here. >> You're not gonna do anything. I can tell. No, >> you're so codependent. It's unbelievable. >> And he's such a jerk. He wouldn't He's such a man who lacks any sort of integrity um in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

That the thought of even taking care of

his common law wife of a quarter decade and the mother of his four kids, he's thinking of his net worth protecting. His answer is all this money I made while I was sleeping with you >> is all mine. >> Is mine. I mean, >> I wouldn't want to be in the same room with that guy personally. >> Yeah, he's slimy. >> Yeah, he's a terrible human being. But here we are. Um I my guess is you've got

Dave, my guess is she's got bigger issues and she's either unsafe, he either has people on the side, she is recognizing how completely exposed she is and I think she needs to go see a professional counselor, but she also probably needs to sit down with an attorney because I think this type of question tells me this is just just what's right above the waterline of the >> There's a big mess underneath this.

>> Yeah, that's true. This is so

So, you know what it is though? It for not I can't help Andrea, but you know what we can do? We can read the we can read the email. And here's here's the point. All right. You're 24 years old

and your boyfriend wants to move in together.

I hope you read this email and realize how stupid that is.

I mean, that's just >> just how unsafe it is. how unsafe it is and how exposed you are.

It's just straight up stupid. And I hope some of you get pissed off about me saying this. I hope you say, "I'll never listen to Dave Ramsey again." Cuz some of the most smart things I ever did in my life is when somebody made me mad.

I'm trying to make some of you mad right now. Cuz this is if you're 24 and and

you're you have a 24 year old daughter and her

boyfriend wants to move in with her, you need to grab both of them up and box their stupid butt little ears

because this is what it sets up. This is what it sets up. And we've got all the data, >> right? >> Not just the feelings and the research to go with it. Here's some data for you.

If you're 35 and you're married, your

net worth is somewhere around 10x. If

you're shacked up and you're 35,

married men live 7 to n years longer

than shacked up men.

Hello.

Cancer survivors. Yeah. A much higher

percentage of people survive cancer that are married than those who are shacked up in a toxic soup bowl like this woman's in. And >> and we talk about this all the time, Dave. >> What if this woman gets cancer?

>> Exactly.

>> 300 million business.

>> He may or may not want to help you out.

>> Um and here's the thing. We talk about this a lot, Dave. Success and money makes you more of who you are. And if you're dating somebody who's a jerk to you and maybe you accidentally wind up

pregnant and you say, "Okay, well maybe down the road if this is this is how this plays out." Somebody becomes very successful. They were a jerk before they had anything. They were a jerk when you gave up your entire career and your safety. >> Why? And then they become worth millions on your back and they stay a jerk. They

get an extra humongous jerk. Yeah, this is a mess. Love involves serving each other. >> Yeah. >> There's no love in this whole equation right here. This just burns my belly.

>> Yeah. It breaks my heart for for Andrew.

I'm sorry, man. >> Andrew, you're just you you have made some really bad choices

25 years ago and now you are sitting in the poop. It's unbelievable.

>> And um yeah, I mean you you don't have any options. your option are stay in the poop um or demand that we get married

with no prenup or I'm leaving and taking the kids >> which is actually about the only healthy thing to do in this situation.

>> Load up and leave. >> You are with somebody who is >> more concerned about them than they are you or the kids >> and hasn't been for days for decades.

>> For years. Yeah. >> For decades. If he was, he would have committed to you and you'd be taking care of you right now and you would have been taking care of him. You gave up.

Wow. But okay. So, but the point is

this. Sometimes in your some of you in your decision-m frameworks, you think about Friday. Thank God it's Friday.

How's it feel in the moment? Well, that's what a child does.

Adults devise and plan and and and have a plan. Children do what feels good.

Children move in together at 24.

And it starts then you if you extrapolate that decision-making paradigm, if you use your decision framework and say, "Okay, how's this going to work out 25 years from now?" Well, Andrea just told you.

And then that tells you if it's a good decision or not. It might be an okay decision by Friday. You might get away with stupidity between now and Friday.

But when you extrapolate your decision-making out with a long-term hor decision horizon, vision horizon, then you end up with Andrea and you could tell the decision's a bad idea.

>> But this I mean this isn't just about the money and the kids. I guarantee I guarantee this is an abusive relationship. >> Oh, I promise you it is. Oh, it is abusive.

Just with what we know, >> psychological, financial >> with what we know, it's already abusive, but there's got to be more to it, >> right? >> Like you said, tip of the iceberg. So yeah, this guy >> Andrew, hear from us, man. You're not crazy.

>> You're not crazy. I I will bet you dollars to donuts. He's got a couple on the side. >> That's what I mean.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> but she's not going to. >> No. >> I love him.

>> Well, but also I mean also I want to I mean >> I don't >> being in an abusive relationship, man.

You can get trapped and it's it's a scary proposition.

Quarter century being told you're useless, you're worthless, you're nothing. Seeps into your into your

nervous system over time. And maybe this is her first reaching out saying, "Am I nuts?" The answer is no.

>> You're not nuts. Um you've done some stuff that's really damaging to yourself by allowing this to go on way too long.

And our encouragement would be to stop it now. >> Stop it now. >> Yeah. You're worth more than this. >> I I was going to say, you know, tell him the only way you're sticking around is if you marry him. I don't think you marry him. I think you just let him go.

>> Yeah. >> And take and take half his money. >> I don't want to be married to a a man who treats >> Who does this? >> A wife and and I mean a woman and kids like this. >> I don't either. And I don't want you and we like you and we don't want you to do that. We love you. We want you to win.

So yeah, I think I think you're done.

That's But you're not going to do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

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Marie is in Denver. Hi Marie, how are you? >> Hi, I am going to tell you my story. I

am recently divorced. I'm 73 years old

and I'm debtree and I have a total of

$100,000 in a money market and I have to

withdraw a,000 or two each month for

living expenses because my social security pays all but $100 for my

one-bedroom apartment. And I do have a

trustworthy car and it's fine. it's paid

for. And I don't I haven't worked in a while, but

you know, maybe I can get a part-time job at some point. But my question is

if I'm doing the right thing by just keeping all the money I

>> Oh, we just lost you, hun. >> Oh, no. >> I'm sorry. >> She just dropped. >> Yeah. >> Kelly, see if you can get her back and we'll catch back up because that lady needs some help. >> Yeah.

Jordan is in Oregon. Hey, Jordan. How are you?

>> Good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Okay. My question is, um, we did a

family deal mortgage before we found you. Uh, my wife and I are huge fans.

Um, we've been paying it like a 15. We have five years left. It was all done by a lawyer, so it's legit, but um the

interest is only 1%. I would like to pay

it off early, but everyone around me is saying, "Don't do that. It's stupid." You know, cuz the money's making more just sitting in high yield savings.

>> You don't have the money in high yield savings.

>> We do. >> Oh, you have the money to pay it off?

>> We do. >> Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. >> Well, who cares what everyone says?

Everyone's broke. >> Well, I know. Well, that's why that's why I'm calling you. >> I know, but everyone's broke. Don't take financial advice from broke people, man.

>> Yeah. No, I know. >> Or indebted people. >> Well, our CPA is even saying not to do it. >> Fire him. >> Yeah. He can't add.

>> Yeah. >> Who's Who's the family member that owns this loan?

>> Um, it was my grandpa. And that's part of kind of the funny equation is that he recently passed away. So, his wife, who's not my grandmother, is now the bank. Um, and everything is still okay,

but something in my gut just wants to pay her off. >> Your your gut is correct. You have a good gut. >> So >> So here's the here's the thing, okay?

The borrower is slave to the lender.

>> Absolutely. >> Period. No exceptions.

>> Correct. >> 100% of the time that you loan money to someone, you change the relationship.

100% of the time you borrow money from someone, you change the relationship.

It is impossible for your stepg grandmother to treat you the same as if

you didn't borrow her money owe her money. It is impossible for you to treat your stepg grandmother with the exact same honor or dignity as her as the

former wife of your grandfather when you

owe her money because we now have this transaction involved.

And the way we say it around here, it doesn't apply to this situation probably, but the you know, Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master, >> right? >> The borrower is slave to the lender. And if you're a slave, you have by definition a master. Even if it's a sweet, kind little white-haired master, you still have a master.

>> Correct. >> And you probably have her kids. How many

kids does she have?

>> Yeah, she's got three. And um one of them is fairly involved now with her since my grandpa's passed. And so >> and that's where you start getting this idea that well that's actually

they would be better siblings than most if one if not several of them don't think well that's our money or we want

to get our money settled etc.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> So you're asking what Dave and I would do. Both of us would clear this >> paid off by the end of the day. >> Today.

>> Yeah. You you know you know what's going to happen? You're you're going to feel like you took a good shower.

>> You're going to feel clean. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not to mention you won't have a house payment forever.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> And there is like there is a financial calculation and you're right.

>> No. >> Well, there's a math problem to be made that you can No. >> No. Not when you adjust for risk.

>> That's true. >> Not when you adjust for relationship damage. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. >> Not when you adjust for the actual realities of what actually happens.

>> That's true. Because these people who say, "Oh, you're making 4% and they're only charging you 1%, so you're making a net three." This is the most naive financial formula on the planet. You're leaving out risk. You're leaving out the strain on your body.

You're leaving out the strain on your relationships. And all of those have an actual dollar cost to them over time that no one has ever been able to calculate accurately except God says the borrower's slave to the lender. And he meant it. >> There you go.

>> And obviously he knows how to do math better than your broke friends. And so that's it. That's what it comes down to to me.

And the last time I'm going to loan anybody I love money happened about 40 years ago. So if I if there somebody that needs money that I've got in my family or friends and I've got the money and I decide they need my money, I'm going to give it to them. There will not be a loan. >> Yeah. >> That simple. All right. We were talking with Marie. I think we got her back 73.

She's got $100,000. She's trying to live on her social security, but it barely pays her onebedroom worth of rent in Denver, Colorado. Marie, why are you in Denver?

>> Um, I moved there from the south and I

have a daughter and grandson there.

>> Ah, >> and I've been there for like 17, 18 years and it's hard to go back to the south. >> Yeah. I I wasn't trying to get you to go back to the south. It's just a very expensive real estate market.

>> Well, it is. And I'm really north of there, but that's the main area.

>> Yeah. You know, it's >> where are your are you like up in Aurora or >> No, in Windsor.

>> And so, um, how close to your your kids are you?

>> Um, physically. >> You mean physically? Oh, real I'm close to my daughter. Real close to my daughter and grandson. >> Can you move a little bit further away and get a much cheaper apartment?

Well, it's 13.90 and that includes they

started charging for water and all that and that's that's about as cheap as I I

even saw when I was looking.

>> Yeah, I know. But I'm just asking because you can't afford the apartment.

>> Yeah. >> Um that's what's killing me here. So, >> okay. >> I I I I don't know cuz here if you burn $1,000 a month and you don't make

anything on the hundred, then you would burn it up in 100 months. Correct. Yep.

>> And so you're 80.

>> Right. >> 81. 81 at that point >> with no assets, no zero, nothing. And now you're homeless. Right. >> Okay. We don't want That's not a plan.

If we invest the hundred and we made 10% on it, that'd be $10,000 a year. $833 a

month. That'd be help, but you'd then have to live within that. Otherwise, you're going to burn it up still.

>> Yep. >> Okay. >> I can make enough working. And if I >> Yeah. So, you're going to have to add something to it and you're going to have to manage your expenses and that that includes the investigation of cheaper rent somewhere somehow.

>> Okay? >> And I don't know what that is. I I I don't have a magic wand to wave. I just know that Denver is very expensive. It's a beautiful city. It's very expensive.

And so, do you move 30 miles out in the country somewhere and um you know, rent a little garage apartment from um some little couple that's sweet and I don't know. I I don't know. but you're close enough to family, but you cut your costs in half. You need to get with a Smart Veester Pro at ramseyolutions.com and get the majority of the $100,000 invested so that starts making something.

Making 4% versus 10% is a deal breaker for you. So, you've got to get up there making get the money in some mutual funds and get it get to making some money. Um, and this is a heartbreaking thing to say. It's one of the hardest things I ever have to say on this show for a 73-year-old recently divorced woman.

That tells me you've been through a lot, but you might have to go get a part-time job. >> Yeah, she said that. >> Yeah, if you have to go get some money coming in somehow. >> So, I I would do three I would twist three knobs on this and try to get it to where it runs sustainable cuz the math you're giving me is not sustainable.

It's going to burn up. Knob number one, get the money invested so it makes some more money. Knob number two, get your expenses down by considering different rent. And knob number three, create some income by doing some kind of work as while you can.

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Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Music]

Blake is in Minnesota. Hey, Blake. How are you? >> Hey. Hey, Dave. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> All right. So, I'm 39 years old. Um, all

the only debt I have right now is a personal loan for $30,000. Um, it's a 10.9% interest rate. Um, I have about

140 in my Roth IRA. Over 50 of that is

what I put in. I'm just curious if it's worth taking the money out to pay off the personal loan to uh free up some

cash. >> How old did you say you are?

>> 39. >> Oh, no, no, no, no. You can't do that.

No, you're going to get hit with a penalty of 10% plus your tax rate. And

so you're going to get hit with like a 35% or 40% hit. So it's like saying, "Dave, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to pay off the loan." No, no, we're not doing that.

>> Oh, okay. I thought I thought what I put in I could take out >> on your Roth. You can, but I wouldn't not I wouldn't I wouldn't unplug your Roth. What's your household income, sir?

>> Um, between me and my wife, uh, almost a

hundred. >> Okay. And how much do you owe on your cars?

>> Uh my wife's car, she has about 12,000 left and I have 14,000 left.

>> Is that the 30?

>> No, the 30 was uh about a year ago we consolidated all of our credit cards and everything into one. >> Okay. Okay. So, you actually owe 60.

>> Yes. Besides with the cars and the personal loan. >> Yeah. All right. So now what we what we'll have you to do and uh you you've got um two years of pretty extreme

discomfort coming. You're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans.

You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job and you're not going on vacation. Scorched earth on your lifestyle. Get on a detailed written budget on the Every Dollar app. Lay out

your budget and live on nothing. And with your extra income that you create and the stuff you sell around the house and the tight budget, you pay off $30,000 a year for two years and you're 100% debtree except your home. Now you got your life back. But you guys have chipshotted one little ding at a time.

One little thing at a time. One little thing at a time. And then bought a car and then one little thing at a time. And then bought a car and then one little thing at a time all the way into $60,000 worth of debt making a hundred and you can't breathe.

>> Yeah. I mean, we're not struggling by any means. >> Yeah, you are. >> But I just figured such a young age.

>> Yeah, you're broke. >> Yeah, >> bro. I've been there. Both of us have.

>> This is not fun. I mean, you're not bankrupt, >> but you got no wiggle room in your budget. It's no fun.

>> It's why you're trying to do something about it. It's just It's uncomfortable.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And And there's no But there's no hack. The hack is hack through it as

fast as you can by living on nothing for

a short period of time. You and your wife sit down and say, "What would it feel like if we had no payments? What would it feel like? How fast could we build some wealth?

What kind of generosity could we do? What would it how would how would we change our whole family tree if we had no freaking payments?" And then you get in attack mode and knock it out. I don't know if you're ready to do that or not because you called me looking for an easy way out. You're not quite ready to be disgusted yet.

But the people that change their lives, sir, are the ones that say, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

kind of got to get that thing going in your voice. When you do that, well, now

you're going to start to see some things move. And that that'll work. So, but

don't rob future you because you can't quit consumption, right? >> Last time you tried to borrow your way out, by the way, borrow your way out of debt. It didn't work.

had credit card debt, went and got a consolidation loan. Now we're going to cash out. We're we're trying to find always trying to find an easy pill. There's no easy button on this. You got to get it and that's a hard thing.

So, John, I was um being interviewed on one of the podcasts the other day, one of these famous guys, and uh he was asking me because we've got so many Gen Z's and so many millennials here. Um,

and I kind of had a thought. I thought I'd run it by you.

>> Uhoh. >> Kind of came to me came to me in the middle of that. Well, I I often get asked because I'm such a proponent of Gen Z and Millennials.

>> I love those two generations. Huge fan.

Yeah. >> I've got 600 700 of them on my payroll that work here and I love them. They're incredible team members. They do a great job.

And the guy was going, "Why is that?" And he goes, "You got the good ones." Yeah, there's some bad ones. There's some good ones. There isn't every generation. and and but why why is it?

It's because they grew up with this magic wand in their hand. And so anything is possible because if I push a button or download an app, anything's possible. I push a button, stuff shows up on my porch. I push a button, I can answer any question.

I push a button, a write my paper for me. I push a button, I mean everything is possible. So they're possibility thinkers.

What the toxic version of that when it goes too far is it's entitlement.

>> Correct. the but the other thing I thought he said well what's the main thing we could teach them I was actually speaking at a college too recently with a bunch of uh Z young youngers and um

he said what's the first thing you would tell this generation I said well what comes with this instantaneous abundance not only is the positive of it is you get this thing of uh uh anything's

possible and so you really think positively rather than negatively where like some of My generation sits around with their lips stuck out straighten nails, right?

>> The world's coming to an end and everything's so bad and you know, everybody's got a bunch of whiners in their generation, but our generations were like negative thinkers and we had to teach them with Zig Ziggler how to be a positive thinker, right? But these guys all think positive already. What they don't have is the patience.

And that comes out that lack of patience. When a boomer or somebody's looking in from the outside, they call that entitlement. I don't think it's really entitlement. I think it's I'm used to getting something quickly.

And when it doesn't come quickly, I don't know how to act. >> It's an expectation. It's not even entitlement. It's just the way it's always been.

>> It's the way it's been, >> right? >> Every time I push a button, something happens. And then I pushed a button and nothing happened.

developing a great relationship with somebody. It takes time >> or getting strong paying off $60,000 worth of debt. Paying off debt, right?

There's things that just take time years of grind, >> right? >> Oh, you mean I can't push a button?

>> Yeah. >> No, it's two years of grind.

>> You mean I can't No, it's two years of

grind, >> right? >> Yeah. But no, no, no, no. There's not an app. There's not a hack. There's not a shortcut. Tik Tok ain't going to help you. It's two years of grind and then

you'll be free forever because you will be tr changed, not just your money.

>> And the hardest cell for me is is people realizing you're going to be out of debt, but you're not even going to recognize yourself. You'll have muscles you didn't understand. You'll have strength you didn't understand. And you take that level of discipline and strength and ability to grind and then put that on top of or underneath this endless possibility mindset and literally the world is yours.

>> But that only comes from

high reps over an extended period of time. >> That's it. >> This is not this is not I lift two pushes on the bench press. This is high reps, low weight every day for years.

Every day. And and then you are transformed. you're transformed a >> and and then the money is transformed too. But that's just the that's that's a like you said, it's not the best part.

The best part is you are changed.

>> When Sharon and I went through the crucible of losing everything and then having to claw our way back out with our fingernails, >> it it isn't that we went through that.

It's that we went through that, >> right? I mean it it's it we are so

freaking permanently changed from that

in such a good way that that you know it

makes the strain worth it. And so I if I

could inject with a needle a big syringe

into a generation that is fabulous the

ability to persevere over an extended period of time. Add that to their

incredible abundance thinking and possibility thinking. It's going to be the biggest, baddest, coolest generation in history, man. >> Ever. And that means whereas um I remember my granddad and my grandmother, they got a sack of oranges for Christmas one year. Yeah. Cuz there wasn't oranges everywhere, right? And that was a big deal to get oranges in December, right?

That was huge. >> Well, you knew somebody in Florida >> that you knew somebody who knew somebody who got a sack of oranges. That was a cool thing. They had to inject go

manufacture go work at optimism. This

group has to everything is possible but

it can detach you from reality. So you have to inject hard regular practices on

a day in and dayout basis. >> You have to learn to cook in the micro in the crockot the microwave >> and wait and you have to learn to be bored and not scroll in in a Walmart line. You have to learn to pay off your stuff over time. You have to learn to exercise on a regular basis. And you will be stunned at who you become on the back end of that journey.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for being with us. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The phone number is88255225.

Michael is in Arizona. Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, Dave, I'm married. I'm 25 years old. I have a toddler and another baby on the way. >> Fine. >> And bit of a pickle financially. Um, my

job hours are really inconsistent and so

we're about $13,000 in debt. Most of it is medical or dental. Um, and I'm barely

working enough to cover the essentials some weeks. Some weeks I'm making overtime. Up until now, I haven't made the best financial choices. Um, but I decided to start school. So, I'm going to school for it. I just don't know if I should try to focus on getting out of debt or try to focus on school to get a better job and then try to to work from

there.

>> What do you do now, sir?

>> Uh, now I drive a cement mixer.

>> Okay. And they pay you what when you're driving?

>> Um, I'm on track to make about 65,000

gross this year. >> Okay. And you can't live on that.

>> Um if on that I I could barely live

there. There would not be much extra for

um much of anything.

>> With $13,000 worth of debt, you can't live on $65,000.

>> Well, I I haven't made the best financial >> Okay. We don't have a system. We don't have a system, so we don't know. Okay.

That I believe that I believe. All right. That makes sense. >> Yep. I I need to change my ways and I'm

>> So you and your you and your pretty wife sit down tonight and open up the Every Dollar app. I'm going to give you the upgrade version of it for free and start

laying out a detailed budget of what it takes to live each month. And

your income is not as volatile as your behavior.

>> Okay? >> So when you when you get that system down, that's going to help you a lot. Um

because more you know uh and I don't if you want to change careers from cement truck driver to IT I'm perfectly fine with that. Um so what are you spending on the it?

>> Uh I'm not spending anything. I between scholarships and federal aid it's all paid for. >> That's awesomeness. And what are you studying? A certification program.

It's a accelerated bachelor's and masters program for a bachelor's in IT and a masters in IT management.

>> Okay.

Um >> my biggest Oh, sorry.

>> Are you able to do this like in the evenings? Well, after you get done driving, >> yes, I I've been working on it each day when I get done. The biggest problem that I'm having is my hours are so inconsistent and with the way the market's been, they've been cutting our hours. So, some I'm I'm making less and

less money and that could continue to go down. I I may not make >> All right, let let's um >> 5,000 this year. >> All right, let let me reset you for a second. Okay, to be making $200,000 a year, you do not need a four-year degree or a master's degree in IT.

You you need to have certifications and you need to know how it works. and you

but you can get all of that a whole lot faster than you can do an online bachelor's online masters even if they're accelerated. What you've signed up for is complete overkill for your goal. I've got tons of tech people like

500 of them working in the building and I don't know of any of them that have a masters in IT. One or two have uh

four-year degrees. Most of them have industry certifications. They've got Microsofts. They've gone to code school.

They've uh learned to code. They they've um they've learned, you know, some of the cyber security moves that need to be done. Uh they they've learned platform technologies. Um but they are not um

that they don't have master's degree in IT. By the time you finish a master's degree in IT, what you have learned will be irrelevant because the market moves that fast.

So I I'm gonna ask you not to do what you're doing. I I know that's very hard, but I if I were if you were my son, I would say yes, it is a great path for you. Uh the good news is you can get a couple of certifications within six or eight weeks and go get a job in that field making $60,000,

be a lot more steady. Oh, and by the way, they'll probably pay from that point forward once you're working for a technology company or a company that embraces technology and digital technologies like Ramsey does, they'll probably pay for you to continue to study and get more certifications. We do that here. We teach people new languages. We pay for their searchs. We pay for them to go through because we want better and better technology people on the team every day. Um, but uh, you

know, a master's degree is is 1,000% not necessary to move into that field.

I'm the hiring person. I can tell you that. I mean, I'm I'm your employer, so I'm sure I know what I'm talking about.

>> And Michael, tell me about the jump from cement mixing to it. Is that something you want to do? Are you just listening and hearing what people say is the next good job? You're just going to try to do that?

>> Um, when I was in high school, I took a certification and I really enjoyed it, but I just never did anything with it.

>> Okay. Um, and then when I got married

and then we had our first baby, I was already in the construction field and I I kind of just stuck with it because it's it's what I knew.

>> Well, you got a job and you were trying to feed your family. >> Yeah, good for you. You're a noble man. I'm proud of you. It's awesome. >> That's a good thing. So, what what I'm saying is that um number one, I might reset how I'm trying to enter the IT

field. And with that, let's go ahead and get a different job today.

We don't have to stay in the cement business until we get cement driving business until we get uh to a master's

degree completed. That's not necessary to do this. So, you could get a job very quickly in the IT world and be in the

proximity of the people that you're going to be working with anyway. they'll give you better advice on how to get uh tools in your belt, how to get educated to move up through the ranks in the IT section of of a company. Um, and a lot of times they'll pay for it and it so it solves several things at once. It shortens the line the time between you and the cement mixer and the IT and it fixes the fact that cement mixer hours are going down now because we're going to start moving into it now.

And that that's what I would tell you to do across the board on this because you have you're a good guy. You you a noble

person. You're willing to work hard.

You're willing to do whatever it takes to feed your family. Uh you just hadn't had a good uh track to run on and you

got to develop a track and and you reached out and got a track. I'm just thinking and there's a better one than the one you grabbed a hold of. >> I'd also recommend sitting down with someone. >> You got a degree.

You got a PhD in higher ed. Does this guy need a masters in IT? >> I I mean I don't know enough to know about it. I don't know any of the guys that work on the stuff that I'm working on that have master's degrees >> in Nashville that work in in the building here that work.

>> You know more than I do about that kind of stuff. >> Do you know any of them that have >> I don't know any of them.

>> Yeah. No. >> Not a one. >> You you'd get a PhD in IT if you want to teach it. >> That' be it. >> Right. That'd be it. Um >> teach people things that we don't use anymore. >> I would love to see you go sit down with somebody not in the university setting but somebody who's working in IT in your local area and ask >> what do I need to do? >> What do I need to do to get in the door?

And they might say, "Why don't you just come work here right now? We have a $40,000 job, but we'll train you in X, Y, and Z, and you and your wife could take a six-month hit, and you're back on you're back at the road. >> But go sit down and have coffee with somebody in your area right now. That'd be the path.

And don't wait till the cement mixer job just dwindles to nothing. >> It's going to >> the the boat has a hole in it. Go ahead and get off the boat if you can." >> Yeah. Yeah.

Hang on.

[Music]

[Music]

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Stephen is in Michigan. Hey Stephen, how are you >> doing? I'm good, Dave. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I got a question that I think I know the answer to, but I'm going to see what

you're going to say about it. So, uh, bought a house last year and my interest rate is 7.375 and my mortgage was sold and the new mortgage lender is saying, "Hey, we can save you some money if you refinance." Now, we're on the back half of baby step

two, uh, my wife and I, and I have the money to pay off our car. It's approximately 6,600, and the mortgage

lender says, I would strike now while rates are a little lower because if you pay that car off, that's the last piece of debt in my name. Your, you said, your credit's going to start to drop off and that'll start to hurt you. So, I guess my question is, do I pay off the car or do I refinance and then pay off the car?

What should I do? Yeah. Well, your mortgage lender only makes a commission when they sell you a mortgage, >> right? >> So, we know their advice is tainted in this case.

>> This guy's pitching pretty hard.

>> He is. They uh they are pretty aggressive with the calls. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh that that right there tells you that something's up, right?

And so, um Correct. Yeah. I'm paying off the car and I'll get around to the mortgage later. Why did you take such a high interest rate loan?

Um well we were we were living in uh I

>> know but that's that's above market.

What did you have bad credit?

>> No. Um credit score is upper sevens.

>> H >> yeah 737 is ridiculous. I mean the market for a year has been at six.

>> That's weird. >> Yeah. So uh I don't know a whole lot about finance. I I've recently started learning everything and going through the financial piece and the baby steps.

So yeah, >> I am making up for lost time.

>> All right, let's let's do two things. Let's let's answer your question uh in two parts and and so we get the whole thing and that'll help you and it'll help some people that are listening too. Okay, number one, um if the only choice

is between paying off your car or refinancing, we'll pay off your car.

>> Okay, so that that that part's answered.

And number two, the mortgage lender being aggressive is your hint that he's self- serving, not you serving. Okay? Uh

that's why they're calling back all the time and trying to make a commission.

And so, um number three, here's how you

calculate when you refinance a mortgage.

>> Your break even, you do a break even analysis. All right, let's use an example. All right, let's pretend that you had 737 and you could get 637.

That's a spread of one if you refinanced, right?

>> And your loan balance is currently what?

>> Uh 380,000.

>> Okay. So 1% is 3,800 bucks

a year, >> correct? >> That is your savings.

Okay. So, if it costs you $15,000 to

refinance and you recoup at the rate of $ 3,800,

it's going to take 5 years to get your money back, >> right? >> You follow that?

>> Mhm. >> That's called a break even analysis. How long before I break even with a savings of 3,800 versus a cost of 15,000? If

your cost was 7,600, you break even in two years. and

everything after two years, you're putting 3,800 in your pocket.

That one starts to make sense, >> right? >> But 15 years doesn't make sense. And so

what we've got to do is we have to figure out the closing costs and divide the annual interest rate savings into

the closing costs. And that number should be two maximum of three years,

two to three years or less. And so the what the what that ends up telling us is the lower the closing costs and the greater the difference in interest rate when you refinance, the more likely you are going to be to do it mathematically because the faster you're going to break even. >> I I agree. >> Okay. And and so if these rates drop on

down, if we see some continued movement, we've seen a little bit of movement the last few weeks where the 15-year right now is 5.86 on a 15-year.

Okay. is 5.95. You know, it's only a

tenth of a point. It's just barely moving. It's just hanging around. But there's all this discussion around the Fed and all these other things right now. There seems to be some downward pressure. So, I disagree with your guy that now is the time. I probably would wait a little bit. But, um, if you could save 2% right now and

you can make your money back in two years, I'd refinance it right now, but not with your car money.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, so the way you do the analysis is divide your interest rate dollars saved, interest dollars saved

into your closing cost dollars, and that's your number of years to break even. And that number of years needs to be 2 to three years maximum. And so, just to throw a few more stats at you guys listening out there and hearing this, the average home in America for the past 25 years has sold every 6.5 years. And the average mortgage only lasts 5.5 years. And so if you have a seven-year break even on your refinance, you got screwed because on average, you're not going to be there that long. Oh, it's my forever.

Oh, shut up. I'm giving you the averages. I don't want to hear about your forever. Nothing. Okay. So, the the

the deal is that your refinance needs to

break even in two years, maybe three.

But as we see these rates slide down, and some of you are sitting in some six, even some 7% interest rates, and we see them slide down towards five again, you're going to see that 2% margin. And that 2% margin is going to take a whole bunch of you make this formula work to refinance.

Why would I ask for a friend, why would I pay off that car with that 6,000 bucks versus pay this thing off and lower that

rate substantially?

because we've got to clear the cash first. The cash flow on the car payment is much greater than the 3,800.

>> What? >> Uh, good call. So, I'm probably paying 5600 bucks a month on that car.

>> 37 average is 780 right now.

>> Then the 3,800 bucks divided by 12.

Okay. >> And the mortgage is going to be sitting there and the car, >> it's like a an impediment in this whole thing. It's like the it's like the fly in the ointment. >> I love that.

>> And the mortgage is sitting there. I got to clean up the mess so I can go work on and and finetune the stuff that's not as big a mess. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> We don't we don't mess with the finetuning while we still got baseballs being thrown through the window, you know. >> So, if somebody clears the cars and they've got $35,000 in student loan debt, >> they need to clear the student loans >> before you go refinance your >> Yeah. Unless if you want to roll your refinance costs into the mortgage, you could do that. >> Okay.

>> But you don't need to drain cash to do it. >> Okay. >> Because again, but only if you're breaking even then, right?

you're going to save 3,800 a month or 3,800 a year. So that you years two years you come out ahead on doing that even though you owe more, but you'll owe less. >> Gotcha. >> When you're done. So all that works out mathematically, but uh >> wow, a little bit of a barrel of fish hooks. >> So, but yeah, that that's guys and gals how you work your refinance calculator.

And Church Hill Mortgage can help you with all that. Uh we've endorsed them through all the ups and downs of interest rates over all these 30 something years they've been on the air with Ramsay and they can help you whether and they'll tell you the truth. They're not going to do what this mortgage lender is doing to Stephen and just hounds you to buy something you don't need. >> I'll tell you my favorite thing when I called Church Hill and said uh this is several years ago and refinance my house and the first thing the guy said to me was I need you to hear me say it.

I'm not going to take your money unless this works out for you in the end. and so let me run the math on it and I'll holler back at you. And then he called back and said, 'Oh yeah, this is a great deal X Y or Z. But that was the first thing is I'm not going to just make a sale on on your back.

I'm not going to take your money if this isn't going to work out for you and your family. And I man, I was like, man, I'm all in. I appreciate that. And just a little inside baseball guys, uh, mortgage companies have been dying for the last three years because they existed for the previous 10 years, 20 years on refinances.

And refinances have disappeared as some of you are sitting on two 2.37 and you're not going to refinance at a 5.8.

do that. And so the refinance market has dried up and they were living off of refinances. So a lot of mortgage companies have gone broke. And so that's where some of this pressure is coming from. And then you got people like Rocket. Woo.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quick quiz. Eric's in Ohio. Hi, Eric.

>> Hey, Dave. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm looking for maybe some advice and a a sounding board. So, I'm uh 37

years old, married. I have four young daughters. My oldest is in second grade.

Um my wife and I both have very good jobs. Um combined income gross before

retirement taxes is about 310 315.

>> Wow. >> Um yeah. So, we're doing well, right? So about seven, eight years ago, we've had the opportunity to buy from my uncle's estate the family farm that's been in the family for, you know, 150 60 some

years. >> Um, and it's appreciated more than we

would ever thought, you know, in in that amount of time. Um, so we bought it for

7,700 bucks an acre. You know, the neighbors just sold for like over 18,000 an acre. So we're thinking like >> I know, great. Those things don't happen. That's what I was saying. like these are this is this isn't real life, you know. Should we just get out now? Um

so we still have a note on the farm. We didn't buy it in cash. We didn't have that kind of cash, but it's relatively cheap money because that was back in 2019. Um then we refinance. It's about a

four and 4.125 is what we have on it.

>> Um so 80 acres, you know, it would

probably, you know, 1.4ish.

Hard to say, you know, it's worth what somebody will pay for it. Um, >> and you like >> uh about 400, just shy of 400. I think 395. >> All right. And um you your mortgage on

your home? >> We do have a mortgage on our home. Yeah. >> What do you owe on your home?

>> Uh 235.

>> Okay. And you make 315. Do you have any other debts? >> No, none. >> How much in your nest egg and retirement and so forth? >> Uh so I was just looking this afternoon.

And I think mine has 205 and my wife, she started a little bit later. She has about 100 105 somewhere in there.

>> So, how old are you guys?

>> I'm 30. We're both 37.

>> Okay. All right. Wow. Well, um,

if you hadn't called us, what normal

people would do would be just continue to service the 400 and let this thing continue to skyrocket in value, >> right? Um, I'm not as happy with the $400,000 as most people would be in debt.

>> You got a million dollars equity laying there. And so I start asking myself, if I'm you and I've got a million dollars piled in the middle of the table and I don't own this farm, would I go buy this farm or would I do something else with a million dollars, >> right? >> And you would only buy the farm >> if you thought it was going to continue to go up in value pretty rapidly. Right.

As an investment why you would buy it.

Mhm. >> Well, in this case, it's actually got another added element. It's been in the family for it's been in the family for 150 years. >> So, that that's um >> that's emotional.

>> It has been in the family for a while, but you know, at the time, nobody else wanted it. And so, my wife and I were like, I mean, we we had some money. We were able to make the payment. We kind of, you know, pencled it out and all that and it worked out.

Um, knowing that it's a good >> Do you have any money that's not in retirement? Any cash or investments that are not in retirement? >> Yeah, I mean, we have some savings. is we also have like a brokerage account.

>> Okay. So what what here here's two options and either one is fine with me.

All right. Option one is um you said how

much is in the brokerage again? 80. No >> 80 85. Yeah. >> 85 85. And you make 315 and then you got 50 in your emergency fund.

>> Mhm. Any other money that's not retirement?

>> No, not really. I mean, some checking account, but that's maybe 20ome,000. So, I guess that counts, but I don't look at that as >> No, it's not a lot. I mean, you're making 315,000, so that's not that's a month. And so, yeah. >> All right. Um the uh So, what I'm going to do is look at our budget, you and your wife, and say, "All right, >> I want to pay off our house really fast.

I'm going to throw 85 at the house. That leaves 150 and we make 315 and so we're

gonna pay off the house in the next 24 months while paying minimum payments on the farm. >> Yeah. >> And keep the farm.

>> That's option one.

>> Option two, sell the farm and pay off the house and invest the money somewhere.

>> Okay. I mean either one's fine. So the qu the question becomes where do I want to invest a million dollars?

>> Right? Do I want to invest a million dollars in wonderful dirt in wonderful Ohio

>> or which is not obviously not a bad investment. It's done really well.

>> Yeah, >> it's not a bad investment. One of the guys we studied in the millionaire study had $24 million worth of dirt.

>> Mhm. >> And it was just dirt. I mean, he's Kansas dirt farmer in Kansas.

>> I mean, just straight up, man. I mean, soybeans and corn, baby. Hello. You know, and um >> that's what it is. 24 freaking million dollars. All right. So, it's just, you know, so don't talk. It's good. There's nothing wrong with I'm not mad about dirt at all. Um, so, uh, uh, but you're

just need to ask yourself, the reason you bought this was not because you woke up one morning and said, "I want to systematically invest in dirt." >> No, it was presented to you because of the family connection and that kind of woke you up and you went, "Well, that might be cool. Let's go do it." So you almost kind of backed into it.

>> Definitely. >> But it wasn't the implementation of a strategic thought.

>> That's true. >> Okay. And so now what I'm saying is I'd back up and look at this through strategic eyes and say, "All right, I can keep it. It's no sin." And I'm But

what I'm doing is I'm investing a million dollars in the dirt. If I'm going to do that, then I'm going to get my house paid off pretty quick. And then we're going to turn our attention to getting the 400 knocked out and be sitting here debtree with by then a piece of ground that's worth 2 million and a house that's worth what what's it worth today? Your house?

>> No, it's 350ish probably 375.

>> Yeah. So it's going to be 400500 600,000 by then. So, I mean, you're gonna have $2 million worth of dirt, $600,000 worth of house, and then you're going to be loading up your mutual funds in your retirement, and you're going to be looking at five, six, seven million net worth in about a four to five year period of time by leaning into these things and thinking about it strategically if you keep the farm. If you don't, right, >> then you pay off the house, you take the money, you do the exact same thing, but you do it with different investment vehicles.

So either one of those is fine, but if you keep it, it comes with the pledge with the two of you to not beans and rice, but to be intentional and systematic about clearing the house pretty quick and then clearing the farm pretty quick after that. No more debt up in in five years, >> all this paid for. >> Have a couple million dollars worth of real estate, which is not >> more like three or four million worth of real estate in five years. Yeah.

Yeah. That's where we're headed. And and that's if you keep it. And it's obviously gone.

been a minute, but I thought I read that tech companies are looking at some of these places in the north that were old rust bell places where they can go in and buy dirt cheap and put out big ecosystems of whatever. >> It could just be farmland's doing that >> and it might just be good dirt for farmland. Who knows? >> I mean, Ohio, it's, you know, I don't know.

Uh, but I I I do not have personal knowledge of that marketplace. >> I don't either, but >> so it's just interesting. I'm I'm so happy for you that you made all that money on it and and that you have this problem.

>> I have a strange attachment to dirt, so I'm I'm my my answers are never rational. >> Yeah, mine too. Brett is in Wisconsin.

Hey, Brett. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Uh really great to talk to you. Thanks for chatting with me.

>> Sure. >> Um so I've got I kind of came late to

the baby steps. I don't think I've been terribly irresponsible with money, but you know, was running out at the end of each month and thinking I make too much money to be broke as you say. And so I've kind of started doing your program.

We got on a budget, stopped credit cards. >> So you every dollar is written down before the month and your wife and you agree on it? >> Yes. >> Wow. How'd that feel? >> So we Well, it felt better for me than for her, I think. But um you know

knowing that there's money left over at the end of each month has been great for my peace of mind. I know that. >> Yeah. >> So we've we've stopped using credit cards. We never carried credit card balances but you know everything came in went right to them. Right. So >> where I'm at right now is I've got a lot of retirement savings but and you know my only debt is a probably car loan and home loan and I'm trying to get on the

path. Is it really okay to stop saving for retirement completely?

>> Yeah. For a short period of time and knock that car out. Absolutely.

Absolutely. That's what we teach people and it works. You're not talking about doing it long. Five, six months and you're clear.

You don't have a car payment anymore. No more credit card debt. We now have a plan. Me and my wife are in agreement.

Sounds like her vote needs to count a little bit more in this budgeting. Like you kind of crammed it down her throat a little bit, but um yeah, other than that, sounds like you kind of got it going.

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Our

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scripture today, John 8 and12, Jesus said, "I am the light of the world.

Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of the world." Jordan Peterson said, "It is my firm belief that the best way to fix the world, a handyman's dream, if there ever was one, is to fix yourself."

So, um, most of you are aware that we

record this show or do this show live, uh, on the glass here at Ramsey from 1

to 4 central time, Monday through Friday, uh, on the lobby in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. and then various platforms pick up u what I'm saying

right now hours from now uh by the time

you hear that it will be old news but moments ago uh Charlie Kirk was shot and

killed at um in Utah at Utah Valley

University and um

um don't know a lot of the details at

this point other than apparently it was a long long distance shot and um not

super long couple hundred yards but it wasn't up close and personal. And um um

then but in the days and weeks to come, I'm sure all the sorted issues of mental

illness that are associated with a shooter will come out and all those kinds of things. Um

it just it just takes my breath. I mean, I know Charlie, I knew Charlie and uh I had spoken at some of his events and um

he's brilliant and a fire brand uh for sure. a lightning rod. Uh and um

brilliant de in debate. Um 31 years old,

two little girls uh looks I mean and they're like four years old and under and uh same as my

little grandkids, same age as them. and

um many many many of the people that we

speak with in leadership events and um

pastors across the country uh and are a lot of us run in the same

circle and we've been you know again I've been at his events with pastor friends of mine and leadership uh friends of mine that teach and and so forth in that and and so I had many many

many conversations with him Um uh and

this is just sickening. I I can't breathe. I mean, it's just um uh I can't think of anything except about a a little wife that's 30 years old and a couple of little kids um

because somebody's h has decided that their political um uh views are more important than anything else and decided to put a bullet in somebody. And it's just uh

simultaneously angry and sad and rage inside my chest right now and I'm just I feel just sick. I think I'm going to throw up. But um yeah, certainly we will be praying for his family. Um and uh we will also be uh

in touch with all of them and um and

like everybody else in America, we'll be trying to help them out and do anything for them that we can to to try to um

just deal with the results of some animal >> that is uh some some mentally deranged that's out of control. And um uh

this is just the result of people have lost the ability to have uh a a good

argument without losing their minds. You

can't argue your political point. You can't argue a point of view. Uh you can't say that someone's right or someone's wrong without somebody losing their dad gum mind in in this culture right now. And it's just it's plain dangerous. And it's not going to end well if if if we don't get some of these folks under control.

Yeah. I just I just going to get home and hug my daughter. >> Yeah. >> Um Amen. >> My daughter's little I got I got a little girl home. >> Yep. >> And um Yeah, that's all I'm going to say. >> Yeah, you just you can't have enough uh security to offset this level of crazy.

>> Yeah, >> it's impossible. Um, I mean, we're careful with our appearances, places, and um, you know, uh, do what we can to

to have reasonable wisdom about, um,

exposure you take when you step into public and have an opinion. But, uh, um,

and obviously he's a lot was a lot more controversial than us. We're we stir up enough controversy and let people hate us, but nothing like he had. It was the stuff he got was over the top. And um

but it just it he's sitting there in the middle of a bunch of college students having a discussion. >> Well, it goes back to >> willing to engage today's societal events and and you know cultural arguments. >> It just goes back to saying earlier though, man. It's it's there's disagreements and there's veheminent disagreements and there's anger and there's frustration. Then when you go home, there's a dad of two little girls.

And if you can't make that separation,

man, you need to go get some help because it's a it's a I don't know. I I I got too much experience showing up to that and having to call that wife and I I I don't have it. >> You've done enough you've done enough trauma. Yeah.

>> I need to get home and hug my wife and hug my daughter and be really grateful that I've got that that privilege today.

>> Yeah. You know, it is interesting what you're talking about that um you know, you go back to the number of um

relationships, families and otherwise that were fractured by the argument over uh nuanced arguments about COVID, >> right? >> And they still don't speak to each other, still don't see their grandkids because one of them wanted a mask and one of them didn't. And and so they made they made little things the major things. and uh or or I can't speak to them because they voted for Trump or they didn't vote for Trump. >> 30% of the calls into my show are adult

kids who were cut off by their parents or parents calling in saying our adult kids have cut us off just divided >> for whatever reason. >> For whatever reason. >> Yeah. It's like cancel culture in >> inside homes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Inside families.

>> Yeah. >> And inside neighborhoods and inside whatever. So

yeah.

at the end of that trigger is actually um valid at that point. It it's um

you've invalidated the whole thing.

>> Yeah. But I want I want >> It's a really really sad thing.

>> I want to not talk about that guy. I want to talk about go home and hug your kids and go home and and um say a prayer

for the Kirk family. >> Yeah. I don't care who you are. I don't care what you believe. I don't care what you vote for. Say a prayer for a family that just lost her dad and lost her husband. And if you've got nonsense in your family, make the phone call today.

It's too short, man. It's too short.

>> Yeah. >> It's too short. Make amends.

>> Make the phone call, man. >> Yeah. I don't disagree. I don't disagree at all. There's some lessons you can take from this. It's uh it's just a just here for a vapor. But um yeah, that was a violence has struck out again. You know, there it is. And um sometimes it's little children in a school and sometimes it's other things, but in every case it's somebody that's trying to take power into their own hands. And this is um it's really at a at a really

critical time. It's >> scary. It's heartbreaking. >> This nation needs prayer and um we we surely do. Oh my gosh.

Well, um yeah, we we'll pledge to you

guys that we'll be in touch with them and um obviously anything that we can

do, there's nothing we can do, but anything we can do, we will. And the thing we all can do is to try to be just a tiny bit better as a result of uh our

hearts being broken and just back up about three steps and reconsider how how

um how to manifest some of these opinions without being so dumb violent about it.

It's pretty simple. Uh civil civil discourse. Wow, what an idea. And um

yeah, and you know, let's just label somebody and then vilify them. And

that's just awful. Just awful.

Well, we don't uh have that kind of thing on this show very often because we don't cover current events, but Charlie was a friend of mine, so pretty much sucks. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 260. You Can’t Heal Your Finances Without Changing Your Habits | March 9, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. And next to me for a change, Kenneth. That guy, Coleman.

>> That's right. I'll be delivering UPS packages later today. I've got the full uh outfit on today. People are a little bit shocked by the monochromatic.

>> Oh, I see what you got going on. That's the Doug Hefernon. >> The audience can't see, but I have matching pants with the shirt and it's throwing people off, Kelly. I don't know why, but it is. So, I'm going to moonlight tonight and drop some packages off. >> I think we'll survive this. >> If you got any packages, let me know. I'll drive them out. You know, >> the white sneakers and everything. Okay.

Full UPS. >> We're excited. We're ready to go today.

>> Yeah. Let's do it. Let's get into the phone lines. We've got Whitney who's in Nashville, Tennessee, right down the street. What's up, Whitney?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, you bet. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm trying to figure out how to

protect my finances. Um, we we've my

husband and I have done Dave Ramsey on and off the program and due to addiction, there has been just some changes. And so if if separation is what is about to happen, >> oh man, >> kind of trying to figure out how to protect finances.

>> Okay. So >> let's since we're separating them, um

I'm sorry that this is happening. Let's look at it individually. Tell me about how much money you make. Tell me about

that side. Because when you say you're separate separating finances, is he moving out as well?

>> We we don't really know. Um, I'm hoping

a program to get help kind of thing, but I don't know. >> Okay. So then then for now, what I want

to ask is you're separating the money, but is he going to give you portions of

his paycheck to help pay the home bills?

>> So, if this happened, we wouldn't be able to I mean, I don't see keeping the

home just because of the finances.

>> Okay. Okay. I was I've been a stay-at-home mom, but I've recently started bringing in 2,000 a month just to supplement. Um, and then he makes 65

a year, which depending on his, you

know, circumstances, I don't know if that's going to change. >> Okay. So, let's talk about how the separation of money goes. So, you're making 2,000 a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and then tell me, list out like what the monthly bills look like. What's your mortgage every month? Uh, you know, tell me some of the big ticket things. Do you have car payments?

>> No, we're we're really financially good.

We're um we were in the baby steps further on, but um we have a mortgage up and it's 900

>> 959 a month, I believe.

>> Okay, that's really good. And that's the only debt to speak of.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, tell me what you're

tell me what you need from us today.

Um I guess like before um this has happened and we had debt due to

just not know I he took out credit cards and a loan that I didn't know about >> um due to fulfilling his addiction. Um

so I'm just in a state of being worried that this is about to happen again. And so I don't know what to do because I

don't make enough I mean just I've been a stay-at-home mom and it's like separating just feels almost impossible.

>> Okay, I see. So you're thinking >> Well, let's go back a step. I because you seem uncertain. I mean, is the separation going to happen or not? It feels like there's an asterric and and I think we can walk through um maybe what

you should do, but but I I I don't know that that you know that the separation is absolutely for certain. Am I hearing this right?

>> I mean, yeah, because I want to believe the best and I'm hoping, but I've had many mentors and counselors and I just feel like >> What are they telling you? >> They're all telling me the same thing. >> What are they telling? >> What are they telling you?

>> That the patterns are all coming back and they're there. >> Okay. Are you certain that as of right now there is no debt? That he has not accumulated some debt outside of what you know?

As far as I know, I have the Credit Karma and it hasn't dinged anything on there. >> Okay. So, your name right now is clean except for it is on the mortgage. Only thing your name is on that is debt related is your mortgage. True or false?

>> Yep. >> And have you frozen your credit?

>> Um, no. I've heard about that. Yeah, you need to do that immediately to make sure that he can't pull out any debt and have you as a signer on it and forge that. Do you have family, close friends that are near you that if you had to get out and this is not so much a physical emergency, but if you had to, you could

take the kids and you had a place to kind of land for a bit. Do you have that?

>> Yes. >> And and and what are they? Family or are they just close friends? What are we talking about? >> Yes. My my family lives nearby. Um my mom and my dad both live nearby.

>> Okay. Are they aware of your situation?

Um, well, honestly, we separated for 10 months before due to this, and I guess I headed back in too soon.

>> I thought I thought it was better. >> No, but I'm just saying, are they aware of where you are today?

>> Not 100% cuz I hate I hate this. I don't I hate >> I understand. But you called So, I'm I'm I'm not tackling the money yet. I'm I'm kind of coming at it really quick to say um what I would do if I were you and you called Nastas.

I would call both of your parents today and tell them that you're planning to separate and you need a place to land because you got to have you got to have some stability where the $2,000 a month is going to take care of some basics. That's right. You're not having to worry about utilities.

So, that's step one. That gives you some sense of relief because your head and heart are already on fire because you want this to still work. And I hear that in your voice. So, I'm I'm trying to get you to a place where we we eliminate as much fire as we can. And by going to mom

or dad's and saying, "I don't have a timeline. They're not going to be kicking you out. They understand where you're at, and you are moving forward as though husband is not going to fix his life." You got to have that stability.

Then the next step would be to go get some full-time employment.

>> Yeah. Because you have to act as though your husband's not going to get well. We

want him to get well. We pray that he gets well. We hope he does counseling with you. But you have called and it felt like when this call started that you were ready to cut bait. And so now

we need to act as though that's the move. And we hope and pray that things get healed. But I think I'm trying to just get as super tactical as I can on what I think your next moves are. And Jade called it out. First move is freeze credit. Second move is call mom and dad and find the best place to stay. What What are your thoughts? >> Uh I think that you're right on. I would agree with that. It sounded like the only reason that you haven't exited this

circumstance is because you didn't feel the confidence to do that. It didn't seem like it was a question on whether it was the right move or not. It just felt like it was a question on whether you could sustain yourself or not. Is is that true or false? >> I mean um I mean morally is definitely a

struggle. I I'm a Christian. I don't I just don't Divorce is not, you know, >> we're talking about divorce. We're just talking about you getting to a safe place and and that's fair. I mean, you've got children. Yes.

>> We do. We have two small children. And that's really my biggest hesitation over everything. >> Yeah. So, there's >> hurting them. Um >> and it's you can't look at it like that.

You have to think of it as uh getting to a place of safety because you're in an unsafe environment right now. If you're worried about someone's being addiction to the extent that you possibly can't pay your bills and honestly that you're

calling into a a YouTube show or radio

show to get help, that lets me know that you're really in dire straits here. And so for that reason, I would do exactly what Ken said. I would talk with the family. I would freeze your credit today.

And the best thing that you can do for yourself is to get in a place of independence where that's getting full-time job, full-time income coming in and feeling really confident that if the time if the time comes when you need to live on your own with these children that you'll be able to do that.

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All right, back to the phone lines where we have Nicole who's in Ohio. Nicole, how can we help today?

Uh, hi. I'm super excited. I was calling

because I think my husband should sell his Harley. And he does not want to. So,

>> I just wanted to >> I wanted to go over the numbers with you guys. And >> is he, by the way, just before before you tell Jade and I the numbers, is he anywhere nearby?

>> He's not, but I asked him to call you guys yesterday after I showed him the numbers, and he said, "I'm not doing that." but he listens to the show. So, I hope he hears us the show and he's like, "Okay, >> and that's why I'm calling him so he >> go for it. >> He's from someone else." >> Um, so together we have uh $39,000 in

debt. >> We currently do everything separately.

I've brought it to his attention since I started listening in February that I want us to work to unify that. But we

have some things to overcome. We started counseling. >> Good. That's awesome. >> Um but thank you. Um his so his debt is

22,650.

His two credit one credit card is 1350,

one is 2,300, a personal loan of 6,000,

and then his bike is 13. He has told me

that his bike is worth around 10, but he

has an extra vehicle worth five. So, he

would have $2,000 left over that he

could throw towards other debt and finish saving the $1,000 emergency fund.

>> Okay. Tell us about your situation. Tell us about your side. So, he you you laid out his $22,000 of debt and what he could do. Tell us a little bit more about your side.

So, I started listening to you guys in February and I'm like, I'm going to get Jazelle Intense and I have and the timing I've been super blessed. I've gotten my tax refund. So, I paid off in the last two weeks um $5,133

in debt. >> Okay. >> And I am down to >> How much of that was the refund?

um 90% and then I got a bonus that I threw towards my last credit card. >> Okay, great. So, what's your total debt left at this point just for you?

>> So, my total is $16,698.89.

>> Okay, cool. Um and what's it broken down? What type of debt is it?

Um, I have we had to get our house slab jack. So, I have a loan for that um that we did last year. How much is that? Personal loan?

>> Um, it is $7,762.

>> Okay. And then a personal loan. How much is that?

>> It is 6,400.

>> Okay. And then what else?

>> And then some medic um medical debt. And

I honestly I've gotten the bills, but I didn't have the money to pay them. So, I don't know what the amount is and I did a rough guess of what I looked at and I'm thinking around 2500.

>> Oh, 2500. >> Okay. Where's the other 2500 or 2 or 3,000?

>> Um, that's all I've got. I've got the 77

for the >> Okay, close enough. >> Jack. So, you're thinking even though

you guys are separate, even though your money right now is separate and you guys are working to get it together, you're kind of still like, "Let's act as though our money's together and I still have uh

opinions on what you can do." How does

he feel about that? Because it it could

be a moot point. If you're saying, "I want to combine the money," and he's

saying, "I'm not ready to combine the money." and then you're saying, "And by the way, sell your motorcycle." It may not be the best way to get him um over

to your side, if that makes sense. I agree with you, by the way. Like, let that be known. I I agree. Sell a motorcycle, do this thing together, all that's right. However, I don't want to attempt to level jump on where you guys are in your relationship. And I certainly wouldn't want you to put a ve make a very delicate situation even more fragile by going sell your motorcycle,

you know. So, >> so he he has um a side job which will he

does landscaping on the side. So, he's going to start that in >> like the next couple of weeks.

>> And so, his thought is he's just going to take all this side money and throw it at that. And we kind of calculated that and that would leave him around like 9,000 versus just like 88 8,300 in like

one one quick swoop, >> right? But the truth is but the truth is if you sell the motorcycle that side hustle would go towards other debts faster and you and I both know that,

>> right? >> Okay. >> Yes. So >> it's not his primary. It's not his >> I'm sorry I jumped in. No.

>> Is that his primary Is that his primary mode of transportation? from the Harley?

>> No. >> In fact, it's not even at our house >> for storage for the winter. >> What's his name?

>> Um, his name is Jonathan.

>> Jonathan?

>> Jonathan? >> Yes. >> Your wife says you're going to watch the show. Uh, and I've been listening and I only have one thing to say. You got to sell the hog >> or at least explain to us why not.

>> No, >> but I'm just saying if we can understand it. >> No, he has to sell it. That's my position. He wants He doesn't want to have to save up to buy anymore because we're going into summer and he wants to be able to write it.

>> There's a lot of things that I want to do. There's a lot of things that I want to do that I still cannot afford to do >> and that is like >> I know I told him like it's one season.

It's just one season. >> I just don't think you guys are on the same page and I don't even think you're close. >> I agree with that. >> I and and I think as long as that's the case, this is not really the issue. The

har the bike is just not the issue. I mean, we can keep talking about it. Ken's right. He needs to sell it. You're right. He needs to sell it. I'm right.

He needs to sell it. But he doesn't see it that way. So, we're chasing our tails on this until you guys get to the deeper reason, which is number one, how do we get on the same page on what our goals are? Because if we both have the same goals and we both know the reason why, then we can both attack that with the same intensity. So, there's something behind this that it's in at least in his

mind, this is more your thing than it is his thing. and he's just kind of going along with your thing. And I think that as long as he views it that way, it's easy for him to go, "Yeah, I'll do this, but I'm not going to do that." Right.

>> Yeah. >> So, there's more conversations that need to be had if you really >> Yeah. We >> want to solve this. >> Sorry. >> No, no, no. Go ahead. >> Yeah. We have we have a lot of other like issues. Um when I started listening to the show, Dave said something once and I'm like I now I can put my finger on it. like we fundamentally

uh just disagree on a lot of things and

so and I kind of took the pin out of the great grenade and toss it into the living room. I'm like we have to get on the same page or I don't know what's going to happen but I I cannot live

>> on different pages anymore. Like we so we have to get on the same page. So he agreed to start counseling which we've had one session. We have our next one scheduled. So we're making the right steps I think. Um, good.

>> But it's kind of like big question mark like are we gonna get on the same page?

>> Yeah. I mean, for what it's worth, Jonathan, we think you need to sell the motorcycle. I mean, if he's listening, I I definitely think that. But, uh, I

don't see that happening right away is what I'm telling you. Um, Nicole, I don't see that happening right away. And you can keep >> jumping on the mattress, but eventually the mattress is going to fall through the the frame if you do it is what I think. Right.

>> Or Jonathan, if you are listening and watching and you really do want your marriage to work and you really are serious about what you're about to do in therapy, um why don't you pay attention and bring it up yourself in the next session that your wife doesn't feel emotionally safe financially.

you're watching, I'll tell you. And um I

think you should sell the Harley because of what it represents.

>> Well, yeah. Because he's essentially saying that his Harley-Davidson's more important than his marriage and what his wife wants. Why? I don't mind saying that >> problem >> because that's what I'd say to anybody.

Um and I just think this is so important and you nailed it. Um the counseling by the way, Jonathan and Nicole, most important thing you guys can do and it's so amazing when you can sit down with somebody who's partial >> uh excuse me, who's impartial. Thank you. >> Uh and and we share our emotions about

what we're feeling because this is this is a money issue. But you just laid out for us, Nicole, that you guys are not on the same page on a variety of issues.

And uh you know, when our values aren't

aligned, somebody's got to give. And it's my experience that both of you are going to have to give >> at some point. >> Yeah, I agree. I think that uh it's okay to do something out of goodwill towards your spouse. >> I agree. >> Even if you don't want to.

>> You know what I'm saying? Like >> Yeah. There's another Harley down the road. >> Yes. Yes. >> Probably nicer. >> Yes. >> You do what we tell you to do. >> You know, a scarcity mentality. He's like, I got to hold on to this one. No, you don't.

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Thanks for listening to the Ramsay Show.

We've got Estabbon in Los Angeles, California. Estabbon, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um,

I uh I'm currently on long-term disability and I going to lose it in

June 4th.

and it's about $6,000 of my income. And

uh I just want to know what the best way

to tackle my debt and adjust to the situation. Um cuz I don't

work. I'm on disability.

>> Um so you're losing the long-term disability money. Are you for sure you're unable to do any type of work going forward?

>> Yes. Um, I've tried for several years.

My condition's um, bipolar, schizophrenic, and like any level of stress causes me to have episodes. And

so, it's in the opinion of my doctor that I remain not working. So,

currently, I have my VA disability at

4,300.

I have my SSDI between my daughter and myself. I bring in 5600.

>> Okay. And then uh my wife gives me about

$1,500 to $1,800.

>> Okay. >> Uh once a month. >> How much is the VA one?

>> The VA is 4,300.

>> So why in the world do you need more money? That sounds like a nice monthly income. It's over 10.

>> It is.

>> Tell me more. >> But I have I have uh that um I have

$44,000 in consolidation loan.

>> Okay. And I have a 39,000 car loan um

that I just refinanced to lower the payment. >> Okay. Um I was writing something when you said the debt consolidation. How much is the debt consolidation?

>> 44 >> 44,000.

>> What's the What's the car worth?

>> The car is worth anywhere from 31 to 33,000.

>> Okay. I also I also have uh a $15,000

tax bill that I got to pay and I've I have $11,000 saved up in my >> checking account. >> Okay, good to know. >> What other debt do you have?

>> Um that's it.

>> Well, then I my friend, where's your money going? >> That's what I need to know.

>> You have plenty of income. You have plenty of income to be paying. >> You have 11 over $11,000 a month and

11,000 saved. I would not be trying to

track down more disability checks. I would be saying, "Okay, with what I have, how can I optimize that?" Because it's pretty it's it's a good amount of money a month. So, tell us more about your living conditions and who's living with you. >> What do you pay? >> So, it's my wife. It's my wife and my daughter. >> Um, >> she goes to daycare. We pay $1,600 a month for three days a week.

>> Okay. Before you before you keep doing that, I need to go back to something because you said, "My wife gives me $1,500." What does that mean? Is there more money there that we need to know about? And why isn't it all pulled together?

>> Uh, well, she makes around 3,000 a month, but about 1,600 goes to daycare,

and then the other check she gets paid bi-weekly. She gives it to me to pay off my debt. >> Understood. Okay.

This is an interesting system. All right. So, what I want you guys to do from now on is just pull all that money together. Just mentally, it's going to help you tackle this a little better.

It's totally fine that $1,600 of that check goes towards daycare. I'm not saying any differently, but if you guys are thinking about that we're doing this together, it's not her giving you money to pay off your debt. It's us working together to pay off our debt. I think that's going to just help you emotionally and help your marriage feel like it's on one accord.

So, that's one piece of kind of uh that's one piece of advice here. But let's look at this uh by the numbers.

sale private value and then whatever you're able to sell it for, if you can sell it for 33 or 34 or 35 even, then

I'd put the other 5,000 with it out of your savings so that you get a clean title on that and actually offload that vehicle. And then I take the other five or 6,000 left and I'd buy yourself a cash car because you're not going to work. So you definitely don't need a $39,000 vehicle, you know, sitting in the driveway. I mean, fair enough, >> right? That's fair.

>> So that would clear up a lot of almost half of your debt right away.

>> And what's that car payment a month?

>> 657.

>> Yeah, dude. That's a lot. That's a huge raise. That's $7,200 plus a year back in your

pocket. >> That's going to make you feel a lot better. >> Can we pause for a second and just I want to know, are you hearing what we're saying that we think you have more than enough money to pay this debt off? Do you agree with that or are you still cloudy on that?

>> I'm just honestly just very used to when I was working making very high income and so earning less money makes me

nervous. Um, >> okay. But that's not what I asked you.

Do you see what we see that you have

plenty of income to pay down this debt?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Like this is a this this is um

this is a realization. I understand the fear um and I totally understand it, but that's why I want you getting out of the fear game and looking at the real numbers, okay? And if you sell this car,

that's why I asked you what the monthly payment was. I wanted you to register that all of a sudden if we sell that car in the next week to 10 days, we don't

have a $672 car payment, that's even

more margin. And I I I Are you spending a lot every month?

>> Um I just moved to a new apartment. My apartment cost 3,800. I used to spend a lot on Door Dash. 3,800. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You have a $3,800 a month rent. >> Yes. >> Where are you staying?

>> Uh, in an apartment complex in Monterey Park. >> Okay. How could we beat that that rental

price? That feels pretty high to me. And in other words, maybe not for that area, but you could rent somewhere for a lot cheaper. True or false?

>> True. >> But you just signed a long-term lease, so now you're stuck.

Yes. >> Okay. Here's what I'm pointing out.

You're going to have to adjust your lifestyle, my friend, as you're getting healthy. You're dealing with something that is obviously very debilitating. And who knows what your prognosis is. And so, I understand that. But, so what we need to be doing is adjusting our lifestyle. And the last thing I would have done if I were you is sign up for a place in uh the Marina Del Rey, one of the nicest areas in LA, and pay $3,800 for one person. Mhm.

>> Especially when you're on a fixed income. Now, here's the good news for you. As Jade pointed out, you have plenty of income even though it's fixed.

So, you can still get out of this, but you have to adjust your lifestyle in the form of a budget, but that's what's going to allow you to overcome this fear are the facts of the numbers. And we can sit here objectively and say you got plenty of numbers to be able to solve this problem. Based on the calls we get, this amount of debt versus the income you have is very very >> Yeah. This is a classic two-year this is

a classic two-year deal. If you can put I mean I don't know how much your wife was willing or not willing to help with this, but I mean obviously if she was willing to take on some extra hours and you guys did this thing together and I if you said to yourself, "Okay, we right now we're making $12,000 a month. Can is

there a world where we can put 5,000 a month on this thing? And what would what type of side hustle would it take to do that? Well, then now you're done in 12 months. You see, that's with you selling the car. >> And so that's the kind of mindset it's going to take is let's create a world

where this happens in like 12 to 18 months and work backwards from there. So that's you putting somewhere anywhere between 35 and 5,000 a month on this.

And that's going to take you guys working on this together.

in case. >> Do you think there's a world where she says, "Yeah, we're we're tackling this together. It's not just me giving you $1,500 out of my paycheck to quote pay your debt, but this is our life and something that we're all tackling together." >> Yes. I think she's on board.

>> Okay.

If you guys buckle down on this and get on a beans and rice, rice and beans budget, which by the way, we'll send you every dollar in order to do just that, you guys are going to be free in the next 12 months. 5,000 bucks a month.

That is the goal. And you can do it.

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Missouri. Hey, Cody. How can we help today? >> Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

My brother and I have we we have a pretty estrange relationship and it's been going on for six years. He has some

explosive outrageous text threads he'll

just send. Um and recently he did this before my birthday and then tried to send me a really nice about $4 to $500

gift for my birthday and the family is

saying you know this is him trying to make up for it and and all this. Um and I don't know what to do with it. anytime he's given a gift in the past, it's always come back against me. And so I'm I'm actually I'd rather send it back, sell it. I don't want it.

>> Tell us about the other times where he's done that and what the repercussion was.

What did it look like? >> Yeah. Yeah. So I've been in the ministry

before. He's supported our ministry before. That's come back and in ways of

him through some really aggressive texts or calls of just saying, "Remember when I did this for you?" I've always supported you. You're never there for me >> or gifts to my kids for their birthdays.

>> Um that's been used against us. And so this in no way does it feel like an apology.

>> But let me ask this. What does he want in return? Because the first example um

you know I get what he's doing, but what does he want and what has he asked for or imp implied that he wants as a result of supporting you or sending gifts?

So he will get mad. All right. He's he's

quite a conspiracy theorist. So he will

get mad when I don't agree with him on something. And these will be brought up

along with, you know, anything else of areas where he's supported me. And so my disagreement with him equals I don't

support him >> um on a conspiracy theory. >> So he's not asking for anything. He's just he's just agrieved >> that you don't see eye to eye with him on something. And so he kind of guilts you into this what he wants. And I'm

give me a little attitude here cuz I'm digging. He wants you to agree with him.

>> That's what he wants. >> Oh yeah. He He wants me to Okay, here's

the attitude. He wants me to say you're right. Look at what you've learned. And

because in turn he said, "I've supported your endeavors.

>> Please show me where I'm right." And honestly, >> uh, he's 42.

>> Is he well mentally? Like, does he And does he have some I'm just saying, is there a diagnosis or do you think there is a lack of diagnosis here?

>> So, that's a great question. And my wife and I actually think he may he may be bipolar. I was going to ask >> if you bring it up to him, it's going to it would go bad. >> All right, one more quick dig here. Um, so on this last situation where you all you started off with is you got this nasty text and and then the nice gift.

What precipitated the nasty text?

>> Okay. It was a series of when the

Epstein files came out, >> of course, >> of him saying, "Look at how right I was." Then and then it was to me and his

wife was in the text. She actually ended up calling and saying I'm so sorry that he's doing this. It was f off. You don't

know. I mean it was when I aggressive.

>> Right. So that's because you are playing this game with him and you are playing a game you cannot win.

>> Okay. And the game is oh we're brothers

and we're going to have real honest back and forth on any topic. Could be football, could be politics, could be religion, whatever.

>> And um here here's my advice because I have someone in my family that uh this

could happen like this. Not quite as intense um but shades of it. And so I want to address this tactically and then way we

can weigh in on the gift thing. What you're going to have to do is realize that you can't fix him. And there's no

way you can win this crazy game he's created. So you So you know what you do?

You don't play the game. When he fires off that text about the Epstein stuff and how right he was instead of you don't have to betray your integrity and what you think. Instead of engaging with a well I don't know or whatever. Just go

crazy, ISN'T IT? WOW. FASCINATING. SEE,

KEN, YOU'RE better than me cuz I would have just been like, I never saw the text. I never saw it. >> Well, again, and you that's a tactic, but I do think he's unwell. And I think that all this guy cares about deep down is something of an approval from you, but he does.

But you don't have to agree with what he says. But I do think if you want to save this relationship and actually try to detangle it, and this is an approach that may or may not work, but I really think it could work.

with what he says. And you see what I'm saying? Because you can't win. So just,

you know, don't disagree with him on anything. There's a way, by the way, to hear somebody and make them feel seen and heard without rubber stamping what they say. I have a master's degree in this with someone in my family.

>> Is that what you've been doing with me all this time? >> 100%. See what I just did there? So, uh,

so, so now on the gift thing, >> you know what, man? >> If you want to sell the gift or give it to somebody because it has such a stain to it, I want you to hear me say, I get that >> you won't win for losing with that, though. >> But don't return it >> because that's going to create more of a hornets's nest. >> You're going to have to take the high road.

>> And I'm going to give you one other piece of advice that somebody gave me recently. It was about parenting. And I think actually this is going to help you with your brother. And this is what my friend said.

And your brother is going to just be the

boat. Whatever the waves are doing at the dock, he's just bouncing up and down with whatever's going on in the news.

And somehow he secretly's got this weird perverted sense of I need approval from my brother." And he tweaks and he tries to throw things at you that he knows you're not going to agree with because it's some type of weird game.

>> And you got to be the dock.

You're you are planted in the ground and so you don't play the game. Don't take the bait.

>> And is it okay? So on the gift, I will I

will get I'll just give it away to someone. >> Yeah. >> And with a clear conscience >> when it comes to engaging, I feel like

I've I've tried Jade's approach of not responding. I've tried the I've tried arguing years ago. That doesn't go anywhere. >> Definitely don't do that. >> Did you try my approach? You know, I have and it comes off to him. The story he tells himself is that I'm being demeaning or sarcastic, and I'm truly not. If I said, "Oh, tell me more, man.

Thanks for reaching out." Those sort of things, they just I just feel like it

might be mental illness. Yeah. >> Well, then you got to cut him off. >> Yeah. Well, or just not engage. Not not

engage in those texts. When those texts come through that, you know, to Ken's point, you know, it's debate. Just don't engage. Just don't. and he probably will fire off more and more and more and more and more and pretty soon I think it'll he'll learn to go, "Oh, he doesn't respond to these texts and it will become something that is a new learned

behavior is if I if I text Cody, he doesn't write back and he'll probably get mad and send a text cussing you out." How often do you see him in person?

you know, it's we've actually canceled a trip because one of his outrageous text threads and stuff got dangerous. Um, and so I see him maybe once or twice a year

and even then there's a sense of >> You said it was dangerous. >> The relationship's fading. Yeah.

>> Does he act this way in person or is it just all this bravery via text?

>> It's this bravery via text. That tells me a lot cuz he wouldn't he doesn't even act that way to you in person.

>> No. No.

>> Huh? >> Oh, well then I'd call his bluff. That tells me a little bit. >> Um, >> I'd put him in his place.

And I mean, >> tell me more about that. What would How would you do that? >> Face to face. >> Yeah.

>> And I'm not talking I'm not talking like >> like don't confront like I'm not talking fisticuffs. I'm saying look him right in the eye and call his stuff out and go, "You try to bully me and manipulate me via text." If you printed these off and had somebody objective read these, they'd tell you how nuts this is. This needs to stop or let's hash it out right now. Let's get the whole family around in the living room and let's hash it out.

Let's get it done today.

>> Mhm. I might I I'm going to say this and throw this in. I might actually talk to his wife and find out what he's like at home.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair's Credit Union studio. We are taking calls about your life and money and we have Kendra from Minneapolis, Minnesota on the line. Hey Kendra, how can Ken and I help you today?

>> Hello. Thanks for taking the call. >> Absolutely. Um, I have a quick question about debt collection. So, I've never been in this situation before, but I just found out through my mortgage lender actually that I had something in debt collection and I'm wondering what sort of like legal actions I could take or if I have to pay for it myself.

>> Are you contending that it's not your debt or do you know that it's your debt?

>> I don't I believe it's not mine. It's from, as far, as far as I'm aware, it's from 2023 from an apartment I lived at back in in 2017 with two roommates, and

I had signed everything over to them and left the situation a decade ago.

>> Uhhuh. >> And I thought they were paying for it, and then I find out just last month that I owe like $500. It's not too much, but

>> that means I should have to pay for it.

>> Was your name somewhere on the lease that you just didn't know about it? I mean, you had to assign something, I'm guessing, if you were a roommate there.

>> Yeah, it was uh internet and it was on my roommate's name. I would pay her by

check every month >> and she would pay for it. >> Okay. >> Well, they're coming after you.

Interesting. Um I mean, you can contest.

How long How long ago was it? Did you say? >> So, I lived there in 2016 to 2017. And at no point were you ever at no point was the was it ever under your name?

>> No. I haven't been contacted about it at all in the last decade.

>> I mean, you could dispute it.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, yeah, you could dispute it with the credit bureaus and say like this account doesn't belong to me or, you know, whatever the thing is and file that dispute. You can do that online and

see see how it comes back.

>> Okay? But honestly, it's $500 and you're

getting ready to buy a house. I don't know that you want to fool with it. I don't I mean, you get to decide what's easier for you. But Ken, I hate burning the million the mental calories on stuff like that. It's $500. If you have the money and it's keeping you from getting your mortgage going through, I would just pay it and be done.

>> Okay. I do currently I'm paying for school out of pocket >> as well as I've had some sort of uh like medical issues so I'm paying for that out of pocket too. Um I have the money I

could pay for it. I'm just kind of tight right now. >> Okay, let me ask you this. Let's get creative for a second. By the way, I agree with Jade. I get this out of your life and even if it were to make life really tight for a bit, you're just going to feel better. However, I do think there's another tactic.

>> Do you uh do you have stuff? How much stuff do you have?

I have been debt free for since 2018.

>> No, no. I'm asking how much stuff you could sell. I mean, you can sell stuff.

My wife is the queen of selling our kids older clothing, stuff we got around the house. I'm saying how much stuff, general word here, do you have that could equal to $500?

>> And honestly, not even 500. You could probably settle it for 250. >> Well, there you go. Now it's even better now. Now, do you have some stuff you could sell, Kendra?

I could. >> Yeah. Like what? Give me two or three items. Let's walk through this real quick. Let's go. What do we got?

>> Well, I've got an extra TV I could probably sell. >> Bingo. >> Okay. What else?

>> Uh I got an extra uh like a a few game

consoles. >> Love it. Great.

>> Um >> let's go.

>> 250 at least. >> Come on. That's it. >> Now, how does that feel as opposed to where we just were 30 seconds ago?

>> Yeah, that feels a lot better just to get out of my way. Go sell something. Go sell a few somethings tonight and tomorrow and get $500 cash and be done with it. >> That's what I'm doing. It's not worth it. You can track it down. You can file a claim. You can do all these things, but at the end of the day, depending on how much money it is and what piece of your world financially it truly is. Many

times I'm just like, settle it, pay it, get it out of it. >> Mental calories. You said it so well.

When I start thinking about that, that's like my only goal in life right now is to burn mental calories. >> I know that's right. >> Like no, actually to not burn them. Like I don't want to go burn mental calories.

>> Yes. Make life simple. Give me a >> physical tough enough.

>> What's the craziest thing you've sold to get money?

>> Wow. I wish Stacy were on the line right now because she's always been the lead dog on this. But I would say we sold um

I wouldn't say it's crazy, but I remember when um the kids got out of the

double bob. We had a double bob because you know our kids that we had three within three years. >> A double bob. >> Do you remember? So a huge stroller had the big wheels. It could you could you could like you could climb a mountain with this stroller. It's the name of it.

It was called a Bob. We had a double because you know Chase and Josie are seven months >> apart. Yeah. >> Well, and then we had one exact same one but a single for Ty. All that said, one day we realized we don't need these anymore and they were in high demand.

Heck yeah. >> Cuz we took care of them. We didn't have for very long and we sold all three of those. And the reason I'm saying that is because we made a real nice chunk of change. >> I bet that's >> I don't remember what it was, but it was also very emotional. We didn't realize.

>> Oh yeah. To sell your strollers. That is big. I still have mine up in the attic.

I don't know if I have a crazy story, but we've sold just about everything.

>> I sold those used bath mats.

>> Sure. >> And someone bought them on Facebook Marketplace. >> For how much? >> $5.

>> But see, $5. >> But I'm just saying back then I was selling anything, >> right? >> Used bath mats, people, everything is possible. >> You know, people listen, people, you've heard Dave, if some of you have not heard Dave Ramsey say this, been saying it for decades, but he used to say something to the effect of uh and you'll help me out because you're better at this than I am.

Sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. Is that the exact way? Yeah. Yep.

And that's all we're saying. >> He was on to something then, he's on to something now. Sell so much stuff that kids think they're next. Quote, Dave Ramsey. All right, we got Kurt in Georgia. Kurt, uh, we're right up against the clock, but we can help you out. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, thanks for having me on. Um, just calling in. So, me and my wife been listening to the podcast, Dave Ramsey, and we've got a car payment. Um, we're not sure if we should keep or to do something with. >> What do you owe on the car? What's And what's it worth? >> Um, it's a 2007 Yukon 17 Yukon Denali.

Um, we owe around 31 to 32,000. Um,

looks like it's worth around 17 to 22,000. >> Yikes. Okay. Is that private sale?

>> Um, no. Actually, we bought it from a dealer. >> No, no, no. If you were to sell it private sale, is that the the private sale value or is that you trading it into a dealership?

>> Um, just on uh just on marketplace.

That's just what they're going for. Okay. >> I would check that on Kelly Blue Book and just see what it would go for private sale. And I also want to know, is this your only debt or how much other debt do you have?

>> Um, we also have a home and a land payment. >> Oh gosh. Okay. Well, home is uh off to

the side and land probably is going along with it. Um, if this is your only debt, what do you guys make every year? What do you bring home every month?

>> Um, somewhere around5 to 6,000 a month,

probably. >> I mean, what you could do if you're really trying to offload this, you could say, "Hey, we're just going to go down to the credit union and we're going to get a loan, a $10,000 loan for the difference, and we're going to pay that thing off aggressively. We'd rather pay off$10,000 than 32,000." And while you're at it, maybe you get the loan for 5,000 more so you can get a beater cash car with the 5,000 and now you're paying off 15,000 from the bank instead of 32,000 from wherever you bought this

>> uh 2007 vehicle from. Does that make sense? >> Actually, actually, um it does, but um we're actually been in this for we bought it in 2022.

>> Um and it's at 13.75%.

So we've already been in this for a few years now. So >> yeah, >> um we just did not know. We just didn't know if it was um it's not something that we can't pay for. It's just something that we don't know if it's feasible or if it's even makes sense to pay for it. >> Well, that's what I'm saying.

>> You called in asking, should we sell it?

And I'm saying you can and I'd rather

pay off a $15,000 debt than a $32,000 debt. If you'd like to pay it and keep it and you can pay it off in the next year or so, sure, that's fine.

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Regina is in Michigan. Regina, you're on

the line. How can we help?

>> Hi. How's everyone doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure.

Um, I got myself in a bit of a conundrum

and I was hoping for some perspective.

Um, just a little context. I'm I'm 44,

single, and holding down three jobs. Uh,

one of which I don't get paid for. Um,

>> Whoa, Todd. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I'm confused. You, by the way, I'm fairly

certain you don't have time for a volunteer job. And that's what you just described. So, what in the world are you doing with that one?

>> Um, I've been a caretaker for as long as I can remember. And, um, I'm caring for my auntie. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that's different. Now, now I feel like a big jerk. But that's not the way you said. You said a third job where you're not getting paid. So, now I got to backtrack everything.

That's not >> No, it's okay. I'm trying to help America know that I'm not heartless about your aunt. That's all. Okay. So, keep going. So, um, basically I've been caring for

her and I was getting paid by the state, but I'm no longer getting paid by the state for caring for her.

>> Okay. >> Um, me and my mother purchased a house

in 2002, and we only have two and a half

more years to pay on it. Um, she pays the mortgage, I pay all the utilities.

Um, my issue that I'm struggling with right now is, um, I am $30,000 in debt.

Um, seven grand of that is a student

loan that I'm not even touching. I haven't paid anything and it's accuming interest every single day.

>> And we literally have no food budget. We

haven't had a food budget in since 2019.

So, I know. >> So, how are you eating? How are you eating? >> Well, we have uh beans and rice like

Dave always says. Um and I've been

getting some assistance uh from the state. However, that's going to stop when they find out I I have this other job. So, that's going to stop pretty soon cuz I have to report this new job that I got. >> Right. And that's where I want to camp out because you're either below the

poverty line to where you do need government assistance for things like food and and what have you or you're earning through that and you are no longer eligible which means there should be money for things like food and whatnot and what have you. So help me understand uh how much you're earning from the two jobs that you're currently working.

I get um one about a thousand50

a month.

>> What's the nature of these jobs, >> Regina? >> Um I'm currently with a janitorial

company. I clean for some attorneys.

>> How many hours a week?

>> Uh 25 hours a week, >> Regina. And then >> it's not it's not a job. It's not a full-time job.

>> No. I want to make sure we understand. You're saying with both of these part-time jobs, you're making $1,000 a month. >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> And uh they're 15 I get $15 an hour at

each job. So, and then um the majority

of the time I'm running from appointment

to appointment with my auntie. Now, here's my here's my question. me being

30k in in debt, I have contacted my

creditors and I have gotten on some uh

what's it called? The hard hardship.

>> Here's what I want to here's what I want to stop. We got to stop and talk about it and what's going to actually help you move forward today. And it has to all change today because at 44, if you keep

going down this route, you're going to end up in a place you're going to hit a point of no return where it's going to be very very hard. Do you see what I'm saying? >> So, I'm afraid of that.

>> Uh-huh. So, here's here's what we need.

Ken is going to help you with this, but we've got to find work today that's paying a little more than $15 an hour,

and we've got to be able to put dedicate

full-time effort to it. You got to be able to work and and it's not you being a bad person. It's not you being mean or anything like that, but you've got to be able to sustain yourself and you simply cannot on $1,000 a month. Something that you have in your favor is you're living in a house where it sounds like you're not having to pay rent.

You're simply having to pay utilities, which is helpful for you in this season, but we got to get you somewhere where you're making an income. >> Okay.

>> Um, you've got you you said you've got two jobs and you're making 15 an hour for both of them. Did I hear that correctly? >> That's correct. >> But you're not working 40 hours a week. >> She's working 23, right? >> And because you're >> 25 at each job. 25 hours a week at each

job. >> Okay. Well, that's 50 hours. You should be bringing home way more than $1,000 a month.

>> I have you.

>> Okay. I What What are you What are you paying What are you paying in taxes?

Um, right now I have to pay in on taxes.

I've been paying in for the past five years.

>> What do you how much?

>> $89 this this year. Um, and I get 82

back from Fed.

>> And then um, >> okay, something's not adding up. Okay, >> you should be making at least 3,000 bucks a month if you're >> if 50 hours a week times 15. Okay, I'm just doing simple math here. Okay. Uh, that's 750 a week times 4 equals 3,000

gross. There's no way at that income level that you're getting $2,000 a month of taxes taken out. That's impossible.

So, something's not right. That's where I'm really struggling. Can you explain that? Um maybe my math is off,

hence me having these lower paid jobs, but I I have did the um every dollar app

and I've been trying to stay on top of it, but obviously I always go negative, so I do need some help.

>> Well, you you do. Here's here's what here's the challenge. Um I here's what

we're going to do. We're going to put you on hold and Katie's going to get you connected at our gift uh to a financial

coach because we quite frankly in the remaining three minutes we have or two minutes we cannot help you. Uh but high

level uh I I will tell you that you don't have a grasp of your numbers and it's impossible to me. It's impossible

for you to only be taking home a thousand bucks a month. impossible if you're working 50 hours a week. And I don't know how you're working 50 hour 50 hours a week if you're running auntie around a lot. So something is off. And here's the really sad part. It's actually coming full circle.

>> Someone else is going to have to take care of your aunt. >> Mhm.

>> And so I don't even think and I'm I'm trying to be as kind as I can, but I think your numbers are off on the hours you're working too. >> I think so. >> Because I don't know how you're running in these appointments and working 15 50 hours a week. I just don't see it.

So, something's off and you need a coach and we're going to give it to you as our gift. >> Yeah. >> Who's going to walk you through what your next steps are, but you need urgency. I I want to give it back to Jade because she was going down this lane here.

>> Yeah. Uh, >> it's that serious. >> It is that serious. And I I'm not saying that to be uh hopeless. I'm doing it so

that you can take advantage of the now.

There is always a greater measure of peace that people can get from doing the baby steps. But the truth is there are prime times to get started and there are optimal times to start to where you can get the fullness of the value that the baby steps have to offer, which is what we teach here. And so in this situation, yes, the time to start is now for Regina or anybody who's listening out there because compound interest is your friend and and wealth building is part of this.

And having the time time Ken to save

money and pay off debt and make those differences, the less time you have, the the tougher it can be. And for Regina and anybody else listening who's in a similar situation, it's not too late, but you got to start today. And just a reminder, uh, when we're talking to folks, it's actually very simple the equation that we're thinking about. If you want to affect your finances, there's really only two things that you can consider.

You have to think about the money going out and the money going in. That's it. So, we're either looking at what we spend and saying, "Hey, I got to pull back on what I spend." That's not her issue. Or we're looking at income.

income other than you going out and getting a J O and working hours that

actually translate into real cash that is enough in your account to do the basic things of human life There.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am here on this show because some amazing women in my life like my mentors, my friends, my wife, and my mom because they invested in me. They're all extraordinary. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of the important women in my life is that between the responsibilities and expectations that the world places on them and the expectations they place on themselves, they are under incredible pressure every day.

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If you have a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, then you need to be using Ramsay Smart Tax. Ramsey Smart Tax is affordable and it keeps filing simple. Plus, it has built-in support in case you need a little help. Filing early means getting the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders.

So, as soon as you get to all your So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, you need to go to ramseolutions.com/smartax and start filing. Ken, I know you don't file your own taxes. >> No. Are you kidding me?

I'd be in jail if I did. Not out of uh dishonesty, but just incompetence.

>> Tax. Same. >> So, I I have a pro. Tax pro all the way.

Love my guy. >> Love it. Love it. Love it. >> By the way, I got to give him a shout out. David, he knows who he is.

>> That's it. You're not I don't want >> Where can he be found? I mean, >> well, he listens to the show. Okay. >> So, he's going to hear this. >> So, you were just doing it for him, not to help the people find someone they >> No, I wanted to get a tax pro, but I'm also very grateful for my guy David and he knows that. That's a shout out.

>> All right. I'm going to give a shout out to mine Nina. >> There it is. >> Book. I can't say more. All right.

Carrie.

Carrie is in Florida. What's up, Carrie?

Save us from ourselves.

>> I cannot do that.

>> That is a true statement.

>> All right. I'm in South Florida. My name's Carrie. I'm 30 years old. My partner is 39 years old. We have two children, six and 10. Um, our house is

sitting at 196 on a 2.875 loan. I was in

nursing school, graduated, and tried to pay for a lot of it out of pocket. So, that drained my savings account. Um, ran out of money. I took out two 0% interest

for the tuition. I paid those both off, but I had to take out student loans as well. FAFSA wasn't paying for it, so I have $35,000 approximately right now in student loan debt. Okay. >> But I have way, way more in credit card debt. 47, I want to say.

>> Oh gosh. >> 47 in credit card. And it gets a little worse. We had a really bad hurricane in 22. A tree went through our roof. We had to get the roof replaced. We had to do um yeah a lot of new walls.

So >> um we had to take out a helilox for 80 because the insurance company didn't want to pay us. >> Why didn't they pay for that? A hurricane and >> they ended up paying 23,000.

I think it was a really long process and it involved the public adjuster and they took their percentage of whatever we got. But it was like really turmoil in Southwest Florida. So our HELOC right now is sitting at 73,000. I think the

payments are roughly $800 a month. Um,

our payments on minimums for the credit cards are just under 15. My mortgage comes out to about 14 and then I have a

car payment. It's really crazy. I know we shouldn't do this. I owe 16. I'm paying 625 a month. I do have I am a

bartender. He is a mechanic. We make about 130 a year. Southwest Florida is very seasonal work. So, summertime it gets thinner for us. winter is more

lucrative. So, our monthly income does

fluctuate anywhere from like 6,000 to $10,000 a month. So, I'm a money funneler. I am a save $100 bills in a box kind of person because I don't want to not have cash on hand. There's always something happening. >> How much cash do you have on hand? I have right now I have $24,000 in cash

and then I have a separate savings account that's supposed to be dedicated to my kids and there's 13 in there.

>> What do you mean? Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, J. >> What do you say? What do you mean when you say dedicated to your kids? Is that like college fund? What is that?

>> Money in it every month. I am looking to invest it in something that will grow for them, but I'm not sure what to do, how to do that yet. >> Okay, >> this is great news. >> I mean, it's great news. So, agree because I am um very anxious.

>> I want to ask about the kids money that you have saved real quickly. I just want to make sure this is money that you've put aside, not money that other people gave you for the kids.

>> Some of it is given like um I have their money I have their birthday gift money separate. So, they each probably collectively have $2,000 separate that I just have for them. And then I have this other fund that we have put into that's about 13. >> Okay.

So, what I would do is >> it's actually 15. What I would do is exactly what you said. Any money that was gifted to them or that they worked hard for or worked for, I would keep that money aside for them because it really is for them.

>> So, for all intents and purposes, that money is now pulled in with money that we can put towards paying off debt.

>> Fair enough. >> I have this other Yes. I I um right now

we're looking at we're putting out about 89 to9,000 $8,900 to $9,000 a month between living.

>> Okay. >> Um so hold on hold on including these debt minimum payments. >> Yes. All my student loans, credit cards, the heliloc, the mortgage, car insurance. Okay.

>> What's your take-home pay off the 130?

>> Uh it varies. It's going to be a little

under one >> now. Maybe a little over one after health insurance and everything gets taken out. We have really high health insurance rates here for some reason.

>> Go ahead, Ken. >> Where were you going with telling us that? >> Uhhuh. >> You were going somewhere. I'm not sure that's where we need to go, but I'm curious.

>> I So, I have approximately So, what is

that about $40,000 a little more in savings? And I know this is going to sound crazy, but I ideally would like to

rent my house out. My husband's mother has property and she has an RV hookup. I I don't want to pay my mortgage anymore.

I want my house to be rented out for the next two years so that we can just lock in and funnel money into all of our debt. >> How much would you make on that >> on renting it out in my area? So, if my house is about 14 right now, we can probably go anywhere from 18 to 2100.

It's a fourbedroom house. >> It's not that much money, though. >> Yeah. What's your mortgage worth?

What's it worth? You owe 196. Did I hear that right? >> I owe 169 right now.

The original mortgage was like I bought it in 19. It was >> But what do you >> two? It was 198. I think it goes for right now between 3 and 350, but the market I I don't know.

I haven't looked into it much. >> Okay. >> To sell. >> Tell me what you feel about the house because I know you're tired of paying it.

It feels like it's been a drain. Do you

like the house? >> We we like the house. We don't want to live here forever. We want like honestly we want a pool. We want different space.

It was really good when we had like my son was born. It was really good. Really open concept. >> We don't. >> But I'm talking about today.

>> I'm talking about today. No one knows if they're going to stay in the house forever. I want you to answer this in a Ken Coleman fashion, which is quick and simple. Like what's the first thing that comes to mind? Do you like the house or not? >> I like the house. >> Okay. Do you want to stay in the house or not?

>> I don't need to. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. What about your husband? If you could answer for him, what would he say? >> He is the most passive person in the entire world. >> Okay, here's what I don't want. I don't want you to make a simple thing complex.

Making it complicated would be we're going to live with mom and do a rent

thing and all these other things. Um, I think that if we can go back to the basics here and go, okay, how much cash do we have? You have $40,000 in cash.

When we look at the 25 saved and the 15,000 of the quote kids money, that's now your money. Um, I'm going back to for now the heliloc because of the amount that's really just going to roll into your mortgage and be part of that.

Um, how many credit cards equal the 47,000 of credit card debt?

>> I have 11 overall. Three are paid off.

>> Good heavens. Okay. So, so the 40,000 goes in the snowball. Do you are you familiar with our debt snowball? Okay.

So, you take all those credit cards and you go smallest to largest and you start applying the 40,000 up the ladder, if you will, right? If we got a

>> I started with that method and then I'm like, I could pay the car off because the minimums for the little ones don't equate to the same as the car. So, the car if I pay 16 maybe.

>> Well, you can do it your way, but that's not what we teach. And we're trying to help you with momentum >> and um so and then you can potentially sell the car. It's like do you want to get out of this mess or not? But the way we teach it is very simple.

You called us, you do whatever you want to, >> but what we would tell you to do is take the 40,000 and you get 1,000 out of that in an emergency fund. It's baby step one, baby step two. We we now start taking that 39,000 if you will.

And then from there, and I I'm Jay

didn't say this. I don't want to put words in her mouth. I would sell your house if I were you.

>> Okay. >> Now, not as a you know, get out of dodge easy. You got to accept the mentality that you got yourself in this. But I would sell the house and I'd start fresh and start building a life that is debtree. >> It's definitely on the table to sell the house. But at the very least, first thing to go is this car at $16,000. Get that that payment back in your pocket.

Then you have the cash to buy something in cash, $5 or $6,000. Now you're 20 grand in. Throw the rest of that towards the next smallest debt, which looks to be student loans. Do them one by one.

you're going to feel the momentum of doing, you know, because they're likely broke into little chunks. So, do that.

And before you know it, all that's going to be left is this $47,000 of credit card debt.

So, if you don't know, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on Ramsay proven principles. And today, we're going to break down the most asked questions of the week. So, you can go in there and type in whatever questions and we kind of look at it and say, "What seems to be a theme for the week?" and that's what we're talking about. Uh there were questions around retirement, savings, obviously investing, but the most asked question this week was around the topic of emergency funds.

The main question was this. What is the best option to manage and store my emergency fund?

response. Your emergency fund should be liquid and easy to access in the event of a real emergency. You want to store it in a place where value won't go down when you need it most. So, putting it in the stock market is not really a good idea. Next, it tells you a high yield savings account gives you better interest rates than a regular savings account, but still keeps your money safe and available. And then finally, make sure the account is FDIC insured or NCUA

if it's a credit union like Fairwinds.

We always recommend 3 to 6 months of living expenses, but Ask Ramsey can help you figure out exactly how much you need in your emergency fund for your specific situation. So, you can go on there today to ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, Janette is in Kansas. Janette, how can we help today?

>> Um, hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm 61 years old. My husband is 70. We are completely debtree. No, we own our home, cars, student loans. So, we have absolutely no debt, no credit card debt.

>> Awesome. >> Got out with Ramsay plan probably 10 years ago. Um, we are looking to build a

permanent home. I know he doesn't like the term forever home, but as we're getting older, realize we need everything on one level and just

kind of makes you a little bit nervous. It's like, is that a wise thing to do at our age? >> I mean, are you paying cash for it?

>> Um, it would primarily be cash. could pay complete cash if we took money out of our retirement plans and we could go into it debtfree, but I don't know if that's wise either to we would have to pull out about 150 to 200.

>> Well, let's talk about it. So, what would be the entire spend on the new house?

>> 610. >> 610. Okay. And how much cash do you have to put towards that today?

>> Well, we would sell our current home. we would get about just under 400 between 350 and 400 for that.

>> Okay. >> Um we have put about a 100red already

into the house which would leave a little bit over a hundred left on it.

>> Mhm. Now I see how you got to the 110.

So how much is your nest egg?

>> Um close to 600.

>> Okay. So the idea is will it will it mess us up if we pull out the the 150

from the 600 nest egg? Right.

>> Um I don't think so. What's the other option? I mean, are you both still working or are you fully fully out of >> My husband is My husband is retired Air Force after 20 years of active duty and then he just recently retired um as a

nurse from the VA.

>> Okay. >> I am still working. I'm a nurse practitioner with my own practice.

>> Nice. What are you What are you guys taking home combined with those benefits plus your salary?

>> Um probably Well, the practice does over 200. I pull about 90 from it for a salary. Great. >> Um and then my So together we probably

are close to 200 about 180.

>> Okay. >> With no debt. I mean >> with no debt. I mean we travel a lot so we know that's going to really change with I mean I love to travel. I mean, if you wanted to cash flow this and you're both planning on still working for the next one to two years, I don't see why

that wouldn't be really really a priority and then whatever's left, you could pull off the nest egg. >> Well, you were just talking about compound interest. I would lose all that. >> No, no, no. I'm saying I'm saying >> that's why J saying don't touch it.

>> I'm saying don't touch it. And I'm saying for the next 1 to two years, like go ahead and start with the 500 that you have >> and then for the next 1 to two years, let it be your your deep intention that we're going to throw anything and extra that we can find on this uh $110,000

mortgage. And then when you're ready to stop working, that nest egg will have continued to grown for the next one to two years. And then you can say, "Okay, now we feel good about pulling out the 50 or whatever's left on the mortgage, and we can go into our non-working years with no mortgage.

Okay. It just seemed like do you take out a mortgage at 60 years of age? Like okay. >> Well, it's not about the age considering to do it, but I was just thought is that is that wise? So, it's it's not about the age because truthfully the money is there, but if you don't have to touch it today, why not? And you're both still working. You're still both making a really good uh income. And I also have a

feeling because of his military, how much is he going to like what's his retirement going to look like? Uh >> well, we don't know what his social security will be. He just turned 70.

>> Um >> but he's already getting he's already getting his two retirement checks from both of those other organizations.

>> Right. So my point is you're probably the >> Go ahead. >> Um the VA retirement pension will start next month because he just turned 70.

And Okay. >> And how much will that be?

>> Um that one we don't know. We're estimating according to the social security website his social security will be about 3,400 and then his current military retirement is about 2500,

>> right? Not bad. And then so my point is what you'll be pulling from your nest egg is not going to be a crazy sum of money just to keep your monthtomonth going on, especially with such a low mortgage. And to my point, okay, >> once you get to that point, you can just reach over into the nest egg and pull out the 50 or whatever it is and pull and pay it off.

Okay. >> How's that feel? >> Thank you. That feels better. I just was like I just you know it says that there's wisdom in the council of two or more and I'm like okay I'm not a financial planner and I'm like >> this is smart but we wanted something all one level living and um if we end up

in wheelchairs or walkers that it's we can stay there. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And go go and talk with your Smart investor pro and ask him hey here's what I was thinking. I called the Ramsey show. Here's what they said and ask what they what he thinks too. He might say that it feels good for you to pull all the money today. And if at the end of the day though, it's got to be something that you feel good about, too.

And it felt like, Ken, that hybrid was was where it was at. >> Yeah. I I'm just if I was in their shoes, I just would not touch that $600,000 retirement because I know that every seven years based on history, that's going to double. >> Yeah. If they're making a good rate of return. >> And so, I want to get all of that that I can. And with that kind of income, they can be patient. And yeah, I I I I wouldn't touch it at all if it were me.

>> They seem like they've got more working years in than what I said. I mean, he's 70, she's 61. So, >> she's got a great practice. You know, she she could probably pay herself more for a year. >> You know what I mean? If she, you know, there's some things she can do. Do I grow the business? Juice that a little bit. >> Uh they just have other options to be able to pay for this house. Well, they're in San Diego, but my guess is if they lived on 100 or 120, they'd be

done. I see where you're going. >> They'd be done lickety splits.

>> And here's what else we know about both of them. They're going to be more than comfortable on just his benefits alone.

You just know that. >> Oh, yeah. You know, >> definitely. Definitely.

And that's what I was saying. If you're not going to really have to touch it, then >> Yeah. >> There you go. All right.

Uh, we have some questions on the desk. I like these, Ken. These are from the social medias, by the way. Are these like the crispy cream hot and now like fresh off the press?

>> I hope so. Okay. All right. >> Uh if people interact with you on social media, what's the one that you're on and like talking to folks on if they want to know?

>> The only one that you're going to have a chance of getting a real response from me on is Instagram. >> Me too. >> Yeah. >> Does that have to do with our age?

>> Cuz I the kids are on >> Since I'm older than you, I'm going to say yes, I guess. I don't know the answer. Well, to prove >> I think it's the I think it's the app. I think I see the messages >> more than I do on other apps.

>> The DMs. Yeah. >> I feel like they're in my conscience.

>> I don't have the other ones on my phone. The only one I have is Instagram.

>> So, for that reason, let's take the Instagram questions. >> Oh, okay. Oh, that was a setup. >> Yeah, it was a setup. >> Okay. >> Um Morgan from Instagram said, "We just went to a restaurant that had a robot delivering our food." >> Oh, I'd love that. >> When the bill came, we didn't know if we should leave a tip. What are your thoughts on tipping culture, especially when you primarily interact with robots?

>> I have thoughts. So, I went to a local place uh recently where there was a

waitress and a robot. And so, the waitress came and took our order. Uh I don't mind I don't say the name of it, but it was a uh habachi, you know, where everybody sits around. Okay. So, you got a big group. So, the waitress comes up, lovely lady, and she's very kind, responsive, gets everybody's order.

And she takes off. 5 minutes later, here

comes the robot with the food. And she kind of followed up to make sure we had drinks the whole time, but the robot brought us the food. I still tipped her the normal amount because of her involvement. All the robot did basically

do what the 16-year-old kid does at the nice restaurant. >> Yeah. No, no, I go 20 to 22.

>> And you did even in that scenario? Yeah.

>> Good for you, Ken Coleman.

>> I probably would have done the same thing. I love tipping, but I'm not tipping a robot. I don't tip at coffee shops. Beware. Well, what's the difference?

It's a coffee shop.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

are here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, are you ready to get to the phone lines yet again?

>> I'm ready. Who's up next?

>> Landon, Reno, Nevada. To this day, anytime I think of Reno, I think of the movie Sister Act. >> Yeah, good call. >> What's up, Landon?

>> You guys don't think of Reno 911, Lieutenant Dangle, and and all of them.

>> Not my genre of uh television.

>> I do have questions about Lieutenant Dangle. >> Yeah, I would. Yeah, I I don't even know who that is. I'm not sure I want to.

>> You know, it's a Comedy Central show, but yeah, I know I know the scene that you're thinking about, Jade, with um with history down here by the Reno Arch and everything. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. >> All day, man. Oh, Landon, you're you're you're one of us. How can we help today?

>> Oh, definitely. Definitely. Hey guys, I got a little uh predicament. I'm thankful for your call, Ken. I think you're amazing. Jade, I think you're amazing, too. Here's my predicament.

I'll keep it nice and short. HOA fee went up to $1,08 per month from $450 per month. I know.

Um and I don't know what to do.

>> Does that include a swim up bar right to your front door? What in the world?

>> It should. >> Yeah. For that kind of a hike. What's the perks? >> I know. I know. So, uh no perks.

Basically, what's going on here that we have a special assessment for the time being to to do the roads roofs and all of this stuff. some some capital maintenance with the uh entire complex. But >> so it's short term. >> Yeah.

Well, so it's going to be at least a year and then from here on out, I mean, there's no way we we we're probably going to need to to do this for I don't know, three, four years if if not more. Uh we're probably going to need to get up to, you know, two, three, four million bucks. Um and we're not there.

>> Wow. I'm sorry. That's not cool.

>> So what's your question?

>> So here's my question. I am going to move out of my house. I'm going to rent for $1,500 a month. But now I have the home that I own. Um, and basically what

I'm kind of going back and forth with is should I rent my house out or should I sell my home? If I rent my home out, I'll basically be cash neutral. I'm not making anything. I'm not losing anything. But then if I were to sell it, I could probably make about 250 in in equity. So I don't really know what the government >> and that's a nobrainer. It's a norainer.

>> Yes. You don't want to live in this place. We can tell. Here's why. And you can push back, but let me tell you what I hear. I hear a guy I hear a guy who's rightfully upset about an ridiculous

upcharge in HOA. A,000 bucks a month.

Are you kidding me? And you're going, I don't love this house that much. I want to get out. You have no attachment to this house. you got $250,000 worth of equity in it and you're going to get a reasonable rent to kind of reset and figure out what the next step is versus

rent it out and you're saying it's a net net. You're not going to make any money.

Well, guess what? That means you're losing money because when something breaks on this house and it will, guess who has to fix it? You. So now you're going in the hole. So for that reason, as George would say, I'm out.

>> I'm out. That's funny you say that. So, I did the ask Dave Ramsey thing on the AI chap. >> This could be embarrassing. What did that say? >> No, it said exactly what you guys said.

The quote that it said was like um it said it said you're bleeding. You're bleeding every month. And I was like that's exactly something that the host would would would say. So, by the way, kind of cool to see. >> I think the way I said it was far more entertaining than Ask Ramsey. But it's still a great resource. >> Yeah. >> It's gonna give you the nuts and bolts.

Yeah. >> We're gonna give you the style. We're going to give you the style and and in this case all khaki apparently.

>> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. So, Landon, did we solve your problem for you?

>> No, it seems like it was a pretty easy thing. I mean, that's the way that I was kind of kind of leaning toward. But, uh yeah, you know, it's my first home. It kind of it kind of sucks to get rid of it. I guess there's a little bit of sentimental there, but um not >> it wasn't going to be forever anyway.

That's my thoughts. By the way, this is a this is a great reminder how how fun Ask Ramsey is for people who can't get through on the show. >> Yeah. >> Don't have the time, maybe you're nervous to call us.

This guy went to Ask Ramsey, >> uh the AI version of our of our show host, right? I guess is what you can say. And he got the same answer. So, uh just a fun little plug there because it is very helpful to those of you who can't get through.

So, >> yes, indeed it is >> fun stuff.

house that I'm not making enormous money on when it comes to rent. In other words, if it's a cash house, like all of Dave's houses, that's one thing. But where you're breaking even or barely making money, no. >> Renting by default is never the move. If

you're going to have a rental, it's I set out to have a rental and I chose a

specific house for the purposes of rental, right? Like, let let there be some intentionality behind it. All right, Maria's in San Diego, California.

Maria, how can we help today? Maria,

>> hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yeah, you bet. What's up?

>> Um, so I am in a bit of a predicament.

Um, I started my own business last year,

started getting paid in August, but it

has been a little bit slower this last couple of months, and with the work that I've had, my projections for income for the next like six months are really low.

Um, so right now I'm in a position where

I'm not sure if I'll be able to make my

credit card payment uh >> or it's going to be either that or my car. Uh >> oh. So tell us what that is in real numbers. What were you bringing in that felt like a good income to live on and then what is it now?

>> Yeah. So um before when I was in corporate I was making about 8,000 a month. When I first started my business, it went down to like 6,000 and now I'm

looking at like three.

>> Okay. So, in August it was like around 6,000. You felt good. Now you're at 3K.

How how many months has it been at 3,000?

>> Um since like November.

>> Oh boy. Okay. So, there's a trend here.

Have you identified what the issue is?

Like why business is down?

>> Yes. So, right now, my most consistent

source of income was a um subcontra

subcontractor job that I have. Yeah.

>> Um which it's kind of like dependent on how much work the other company has. Um I just signed a contract with my actual business. We do property services, so we do turnover management. Um, so that

should be starting soon, but it is going to be less pay per um, work because

right now where I'm at right now, it is on the military base. So the pay per gig is a lot better here. >> Okay. And it's just you. You're the sole employee. >> It's myself and my boyfriend, but his his debt is a lot lower.

>> So the be I mean the good news is it's it's you and your boyfriend, and you're working as the work comes in since it's subcontracting. So, the the best thing that I could do if I were in your shoes is while I'm working to get more business coming in the door or while there's a down season or whatever the nature of that is, I'm also going to have another job over here on the side that brings in the gap of what I need

>> until you can figure out how to get this back up to making you 6 to8,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Okay. My my biggest I guess dilemma right now is uh three of my credit cards already hit the 30-day late, >> right? which means you need money.

>> Yeah, >> that's all that is. That means, okay, yesterday I needed a job, so that means today your weekend is going to be spent pounding pavement and getting online and and finding whatever you can to fill

that gap. Because if you don't have dollars and they're calling you, all you can do is say, "Hey, I don't have any money. Uh, check me next month until

this happens." >> So income is the name of the game. I mean, that's the only solution. and Kim, what have you. >> I mean, you did such a great job. You don't add much more to a really good song except maybe repeat. So, there you go. >> Refrain. >> Thank you. You helped me out. I shouldn't be talking music terms with you ever.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data that's out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

But we're here to help make the latest trends easy to understand. For instance, median home prices dipped a little below 400,000 last month, which is typical for this time of year. Mortgage rates also dipped to 5.44 in January, down from 6.27 last January, giving buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when home prices or rates drop.

So to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Alrighty then.

Texas. Haley, you're on the line. How can we help today? >> Hi. Y'all are absolutely going to hate me whenever I tell you what I want to be doing. >> No, >> let's test it. >> That's a strong word. Hate is too strong. >> Um I am a realtor investor here in Texas

and I have a long-term boyfriend. Um and

I we were buying a house together and I

told him um I didn't want a ring. I wanted a house instead. We've both been married previously and we're coming in together. Obviously, we're very Dave Ramsey friendly and we know it. Um, but

he is carrying quite a little bit more debt than I am. Um, I am credit card free. He is as well. However, we I'm just trying to figure out how I want to tackle his debt when we buy the house,

after we buy the house. >> It's not It's not It's >> I don't even You know what? I'm going to sit back for a second. I'm going just let you go first. >> I would just say for the people who are listening for the first time cuz you said that you were Ramsay friendly and then you went off to say things of such nature that it doesn't even apply.

>> And you know what's funny about it? You're laughing the whole time and you know what you you know what she's about to say, right? >> I know. I >> Why are you laughing about it? Uh because honestly because of the market that we are in and the real estate the way the way it's going, it would just be too good to pass up this property to where obviously we would want to live in it for a little bit.

>> Why don't you just buy it? How about >> Well, I do I can buy it myself, but I

really want him to be on board with me.

And it's not bad debt. Like we are selling He has a camper that he was living in and working out of. Um, so doing like insurance adjustment across the US. So that's really the only one that's a major one. The other one is just a minor amount, maybe 10,000.

>> Here's the thing. It's not about the debt for me. For me, there there the debt is part of the home buying equation. Don't get me wrong, >> but in the bigger picture of what you're talking about, if I'm going to address these things uh by thing that's most on

fire to thing that's not as burning as quickly, I would say the first thing is the idea of buying a house with a boyfriend is very very risky business

>> because it's you're doing something that should be very long-term with someone that you can't you really don't know if it's going to be long term and if because of the the nature of the mingling of money, it can get really, really messy. And if it doesn't have to be messy, the easier thing to do would just be like, "Hey, I'm going to buy this house or he's going to buy this house." And then if you so choose that you're going to live together in that way, that's your choice.

this were to go south and not proceed into marriage. >> Okay, Haley, that's about as good a word as you're going to get on that. What is your response to that? because I can hear you saying yes to her but you have a retort. >> So what is your retort?

>> So basically with me being an investor so I do actually show which I you know

the banks don't love me but my CPAs do uh you know that always that joke and so really with qualifying for this property you know he shows way more of an income.

I mean it almost doubles what or triples what my income is. >> What do you Okay, pause. What investing

do you have? You sound like you're overleveraged. >> Mhm. >> No, I have 10 rentals. Um and so basically I >> How much do you owe? How much do you owe on 10 rentals?

>> Um I have three loans. Um totaling about

225,000.

>> Okay, that's not as bad as I thought.

>> I thought it was going to be worse. >> Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Uh, I want to give you props because even though you may not have done some of these things the Ramsay way, the fact that you have 10 rentals and you only owe 225, unless these are just really crappy properties, there's something that you've done that you've not gone ridiculously.

>> Do you see what I'm saying? Like for 10 for 10 rentals, Ken, I would think that I thought for sure you're going to say a couple million. >> But why wouldn't you buy but why? So, what does that really mean? Because Jay gave you great advice. You buy it yourself. >> Why wouldn't you? And you you have 10 rentals >> because because I love like I I am an

investor at heart. So my that's such a

crap answer. >> You said that three times and it still didn't >> What's the real reason? And you said this. Let me tell you what you said. So you said, "Well, yeah, Jade, you're right, but I want us to be on the same page. I want him to be in it with me." And I even think that's a copout.

>> So what? >> Well, he showed more income. So with our lender, they basically could not >> I know what the answer is, but you won't tell me. You're trying to play a game on interest rate because >> it's not that >> what is it? >> I think >> my lender basically qualified said that we would be qualified based on his his income based off my >> Haley, you're smart. You know today that

it's not a thing of numbers or interest rates or anything like because you know today, hey, if I really wanted this property, I could just sell off one of the ones I have. I could buy it in C. Like you know that. Are you trying to lock him in? Yeah, I told him to I turned down a ring for a mortgage.

>> Yeah, but Okay, do you know how crazy that sounds? Why don't you just go down to the courthouse? Let's >> get married. >> Do you want this guy to be your husband or not? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, then why don't you let him give you the ring? >> Yeah, >> that's true.

>> What's the problem? Tell us for real.

For real. It's just us.

>> I I have been independent for so long and so with my, you know, being divorced and having uh my son, it's been it's definitely scary. >> Yeah. You just told us, you just told us you want this guy to be your husband >> and you were willing to do a more.

Here's what I want to frame up for you.

You said that you want to be independent and maybe you've been burned before. All of those things. Do you understand? And I can I'll validate for you that that makes sense to me that you would be you would have some trepidation >> getting into another relationship. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is how you are solving it >> because you're creating something that has the ability to be even more dramatic, even more work, like even

worse for everybody involved if it were to go south. >> So, why not fuel >> what you're feeling into a better solve, which is I might not be ready to get married yet. Maybe I'm not.

>> Great point. >> That's okay if you're not ready to be married. >> And Jade's making a great point. If it goes bad, then there's going to be a legal, very clear legal decision on what happens with the house as an asset. But if you guys go in together and there's no legal marriage, then it's a mess. You know this. >> Yes.

>> I don't think we can sell you on our philosophy, but I think if we come to your page, no, no, I'm not trying to >> We're going to go on your philosophy, which is you're independent, so be independent >> and and so be independent or then get

legally married. >> Okay. So that this risk that you're afraid of goes away in the sense of it's

going to be clean if there is another divorce and nobody wants to think about it. But that's your fear. So let's go there. >> So our our position that you should be married and combined finances while it is coming from a different vantage point than you have it does meet you where your biggest fear is.

>> So take call this guy back. I wish we could get him on the phone and you cuz I would make you tell him >> that that you were foolish and that you will take the ring. Yeah. >> And uh with the ring comes an actual marriage. >> Mhm. >> And we're going to do our money together >> and we're going to dominate.

>> Yeah. >> We're going to we're going to heal from our past >> and we're going to come together and we're going to set out a vision for our life that we both are in lock step on and then we're just going to do this thing. >> How long have you been together?

Uh over two years. >> Oh, for heaven's sakes. >> Two years. And And where are you guys living now? Where are you living now?

>> Um so we do live part of the time. We we're pretty respectful of our kids. So when he has his child and I have mine, we kind of stay apart, but when we don't, we obviously are living with me, but with him traveling. So he's he's staying a lot more at my property, which is one of my investments that I am doing. So >> y I got to tell you, this is exhausting.

And by the way, the whole respect for the kids thing, they know what's happening. Let's stop playing games.

Let's get married.

>> All right, Ken. I'm with you. I'm with you. I don't think she's ready. That's my hot take of the day. >> And I think you're probably ready. >> I don't think she's ready. >> You're always right.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027. Join the Ramsay personalities

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All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If defaulted private student loans are wrecking your budget, it's time to deal with them. Y Refi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate payment based on your ability to pay so you can stick to a budget and work the plan. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's yfy.com/ramsey.

Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Jessica in North Dakota. My husband and I are on Baby Step 2 and we'll be paying off our last 10,000 of debt this year. I have a

2014 SUV with three growing boys. We

desperately need something bigger. My in-laws have said they would buy us a minivan and we could pay them back when we've paid off our debt. The only problem with this offer is their stipulation that we have to purchase a new vehicle. I'm very grateful to have such a generous family, but I have heard you say never to buy a new vehicle.

Should we take them up on this offer?

No. And I also don't buy that. Um, three

growing boys uh don't fit in a 2014 SUV. Uh,

>> they have very long limbs.

>> Yeah. I mean, I don't care if they're all 6'2.

uh they can be uncomfortable for the amount of time you're getting them from point A to B. This is one of those things that is just an absolute It sounds very reasonable in your head, Jessica, but to somebody like me who has

no emotion attached to it, I go, "Well, what kind of SUV were they making in 2014 that three boys can't sit in the back?" I >> I don't know. Cuz I'm thinking about when my parents had a 1995 Suburban and

we fit in the back. What's the difference? >> Uh, so that's the first issue. Uh, and

and a minivan, that's the answer to the

three growing boys. What are they, part giant? They'll they're going to fit in the SUV. So, this just keeps falling apart. And then it gets to, well, they're going to loan us money. That's family. We'd say, "We don't want you to borrow money, >> but it has to be brand new." Apparently, it has to be >> It's got to be brand new. So now they're fleecing you on their conditions.

Everything about this is just so wacky.

And we have created in our minds this need that is not a need. And we are wrapping a desire up in the clothing of a need. And there's nothing about this that is a need. And my gosh, you have 10,000 to go.

>> Come on. >> Just finish it.

>> And then walk forward to baby step

three. And you know, and while you're doing that, cash flow the car. Get creative. Uh, but in no way, shape, or form do I have any sympathy for your

three growing boys.

>> And how that could be anything. >> By the way, one of the great hardships of life that every young man needs to go through is to sit in the middle. And I

don't think they have a hump anymore. Do you >> with your knees all folded up in the center? >> Yeah. Do they still have a hump in the middle of the back of these SUVs? That would be great cuz I'm wondering if this SUV has a third row. Sounds like it doesn't. But if it's got a hump in the middle, one of those boys needs to have his knees touching his nose.

>> Yeah, >> that's just >> that's a right of passage. >> Yeah, >> it's a right of passage.

>> I mean, don't get me started. I remember there were times where if we had a friend come with us, >> uh, one of us would get up in the back window cuz cars back then, cars back then, you know what I'm saying, Kelly?

Cars back then had enough space >> that you could get a good size 10year-old, 11year-old and you you would

lay the full length and you it was great. You could stare like a freak at the car behind you. >> I I was a part of this.

>> You know what I'm talking about. Now, I will tell you, on a sunny day, it got kind of warm. >> Oh, you were sweating, getting car sick in that window >> and just staring at the poor drivers behind you like you're some sort of psychopath. Uh, I digress.

>> You called a spade a spade on this. I agree with you wholeheartedly, Ken.

Sounds like What did you say? Desire wrapped up in >> Oh, this is desire wrapped up in the clothes of a need. Very profound. Very

profound. Katie, >> I gotta call my kids and tell them you said that. >> I will. They won't care. They're going to be like, "They don't they don't care." >> All right. Katie's in Ohio. How can we help today, Katie?

>> Hi, guys. How are you?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> So, my my question is I'm on Baby Step 2 with a job that provides a company car.

So, I don't have a car payment or pay for gas or anything like that right now.

>> Nice. Um, but I recent I recently received a job offer which it would be a pay increase. Um, but instead of a company car, they would give a monthly allowance for car payment and gas separately. Um, so my question is, if I take this job, should I pause baby step two and try to save as much money as possible to put towards a car or should I keep throwing money at my debt and then just use the car allowance when I potentially start?

>> Um, that's a good question. You're going to need something to drive in right away. Do you have any money saved whatsoever?

>> No, I'm a baby step, too, so I have maybe 1,500 bucks.

>> Okay. How much is the car allowance once they give it to you?

>> Uh, it would be around 850 a month. Uh,

not including gas. Gas would be an additional like 2 to30 a month.

>> Okay. Are you close? Would you be close enough to the work that in the meantime you could do something like take the bus or Uber or do something short-term while you stacked up that you know however much the car allowances in order to just get yourself a quick beater to get started.

>> Um well the job includes uh it's it's

sales so I would have to use the car to drive to different offices. Um but the

other thing is it wouldn't start until June uh maybe July even. So, I would

have a few months to save up. Um, so I

think I I'm thinking I could potentially save up 10 to 15,000. So,

>> it's great. You can get a you can get a fine car for 10 to 15,000.

>> That's great. >> I mean, this is a real opportunity if you and I love, by the way, your your suggestion because you you you are demonstrating someone who uh has got some self-discipline.

Um, and if you can do that, uh, and use

this car allowance effectively, that's a win for you. So, I I that's that's the play. You just answered your own question.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've just been on such a um motivated kick on paying off my debt, it's going to hurt to pause it a little bit, but I know in you know in in the long run it'll be >> but you know what's great about this is um it's in the grand scheme of things it's not really a pause you know like you're you're not this isn't like going to put you way behind. You're only talking about a few >> stopping pro you're not stopping progress. >> Yeah, that's what I meant to say.

That's even better. you are pausing the act of of paying it down, but but you're doing it for a reason and you're going to pick right back up where you left off and not be behind. >> Yeah, buying a car in cash is great progress in your >> Yeah, good for you. >> Yeah, very good, Katie.

Thank you for the call. Uh, next up we have Gary in California.

>> Hi, Jade. Hi, Ken. >> Hi. My basic question, I got to give you some details, but my basic question is how can I enjoy monetary gifts I've received from my parents given I've

tithed all my life but found it difficult to save. I'm very late in life and I'm 66 years old and just came to Ramsay a few years ago. I now have an emergency fun paid off my house, got a pension but not much savings and also as as I'm retired looking after my folks.

So recently my parents gave me and my brother $38,000.

And because my mom knows I want to go to Africa on safari, she said, "This is for your Africa trip." >> Great. And >> I'm thankful. >> What do you have? >> What do you have in savings?

>> Sorry. >> What do you have in savings right now?

>> Nothing of my own. >> You have zero dollars in savings?

>> No, I mean I' I've been given some money, so I' I've got I've got some money, but um >> How much? about

over 100,000. >> Okay, so let me just recap right quick.

You're retired. You have no debts. You

have $100,000 saved and you got a $38,000 gift to go on safari in Africa.

>> Yeah. >> And but you told us that you've not been good at saving. So I'm I'm so confused.

>> Okay, here's the deal.

If I found it very difficult throughout life to save. I always made the 10% for God, but I always I hadn't learned the

Ramsey principle. So, I was going through life and at the end of the month, I just didn't have enough left to save rather than putting savings number one. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, what I've got is a situation where I have a kind of a bad taste in my mouth at spoiling things because I feel ashamed >> for needing the money for needing the money for a bucket list trip. I have no sense of satisfaction. Well, let me fix that. Let me fix that. Let me fix it.

First of all, this is a gift >> and you need to receive it as a gift or else it robs your parents of the blessing. And a safari trip's not going to cost you 38,000.

>> Go do a great safari trip and then invest or save the rest of it and enjoy your life. You're 66. We're not promised tomorrow. Go take some pictures of some giraffes, man. >> Yeah, but you also need to save some retirement for yourself cuz you don't have it. I told him that, but he needs to go do the safari, too. He's got 100 grand he could start investing. >> Yeah, he needs to start that immediately.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our

Ramsay Show scripture and quote of the day. Philippians 4:13. King Coleman. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. >> Yes. >> Amen. >> I love it. >> Dolly Parton. If your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, then you are an excellent leader.

How about Dolly dropping some leadership gold? That's actually a really great quote. >> It is inspiration. >> Oh, she's a treasure, folks. She's a national treasure. >> Love it. Love it. All right. Ellie is in Louisiana. Ellie, how can we help today?

>> Hi. So, me and my new husband, we just got married. First marriage for both of us. Hopefully the only marriage. We're a young we're a young Christian couple.

We're looking at buying a place, but we're not sure like, are we, this is gonna sound so silly, are we too young to buy a buy property? We neither of us

have debt. We both have college degrees.

We have together like over a h 100,000 in savings. Like, would it be a good

next step as a couple to buy a house together? >> How long you been married?

>> We just got married in January, but we were together for five years prior.

>> Okay. And uh how old are you guys?

>> We are 23 and 25.

>> Okay. >> Fantastic. What are your incomes?

>> I make about 60 and he makes over a

hundred. >> Fantastic. And what do you do?

>> I am an engineer. I just graduated, but

he is actually in the finance realm, but

he's newer to it. And he's very good with money, obviously, or we wouldn't have that much in savings. But we're just like scared almost to have a

mortgage. >> Sure. Well, let's walk through the emergency fund. So, based on you know your numbers, do you guys have a threemonth or a six-month emergency fund in that 100,000? I know that's more than you need, but what what would be 3 months? What would be six months?

>> Um, we're currently renting in $1,300

place right now. So that would be you

know probably at least 6 months plus any

expenses we would have in that time more than probably that >> oh 100,000 is is more than 6 months of

basic expenses for you guys. So what kind of a size house are we talking about and not size actually what price point are you guys looking at because I I assume you guys have driven around or you've been on websites looking at houses. What are you looking at?

Yeah, we're looking between like 250 to

350. We're looking at getting a duplex

and fixing it up and living in one side and renting out the other.

>> I don't like that. Jade, what do you think about that? >> Never heard that. >> Uh, all I can tell you is when I was in high school, we moved into a duplex >> and it started out fine

and then it went south very quickly. And what sucks is if the person on door

number one doesn't get along with the person on door number two, you have to see them every day. >> Those walls are thin. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, they are.

>> That's a horrible idea, Ellie. You're so first like a first.

>> Yeah, you're so sweet. I I didn't want to say it that way at first, but now I just have to warn you. This is a This is an awful idea. You guys are already thinking You're thinking our first house, guess what? will live in it, but it's a real investment. And I just think because it's a duplex and all the problems that come with it, we don't think that's a strong investment strategy. And it sure as heck is not a great young marriage strategy. You guys

need your own place without any kind of headaches literally next door.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Don't do that. Please.

>> Could with our income. Do you guys think that we could buy a house then? Like >> Yeah. Jade walking through. I just I'm so scared of a mortgage.

>> Okay, Jade's going to walk you through how you would do it with that really nice income. So, there's nothing to be scared of. >> Tell me what you guys are taking home every month.

>> Every month. Um, so he gets commissions, so it really depends, but we've had months where it's been like 10 grand and

then we've had months where it's been like the lowest has been like six.

>> Okay? So, I would plan based off of the lowest month because that's going to give you a measure of peace. So, if six grand is the lowest month, I'd say, okay, for us to really feel great, we don't want our mortgage to be any more than $1,500 a month. That's 25% of our

take-home pay. And that's kind of a parameter that we use here at Ramsey Solutions. And then what I would do, which is what I'm doing right now, I go over on ramseyolutions.com and I pull up the mortgage calculator and I say, "Okay, let's pretend we're looking for a house." You said between >> 3 250 to 350, right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. So, let me just I'll look at 325.

How about that? That's kind of somewhere in the middle. >> And since plenty of house for a young couple. >> And so, if I say, "Okay, what happens if we put our down payment? We need to get to $1,500 a month." So, I'm going to make this a pretty hefty down payment.

Um, and we're still not quite there yet.

Let's see.

But all I'm doing is plugging in the numbers to see. You're going to have to put down a lot to get there. So, I don't think you guys are quite there yet. you're going to be putting down upwards of 160,000 to get there at 325.

>> So sit on that number here for a second and you're not we're not holding you to this. How long do you think? So this has got to be above and beyond your emergency fund. Okay.

>> So if you do 3 months emergency fund and you you're going to calculate that, right? You know how to do that and go, okay, this is our these are our our total expenses to to run everything, right? We're not crazy about this.

What's that number? And so above and beyond that, how long do you think it would take you to save 160,000?

100 from where we are probably only another year. Our that's what I'm thinking is very low right now.

>> Exactly. >> So could you wait a year?

>> You guys are just married. Could you wait a year and get a fat down payment?

>> And here's what else is going to happen in that year. Your husband who works on commissions is going to find his flow

and he's going to have way more months where he's sitting at 10,000 as opposed to 6,000. You see what I'm saying? Mhm.

>> So, it gives you guys time. It gives you time to get in a flow both income-wise and it gives you time to save up the down payment you really need to get in a house that's just yours. We don't want Billy Bob ac across the doorway. You know, >> I'm tell Oh, by the way.

Yeah. By the way, I mean, yeah, the people that are living in duplexes, you got to do your homework on this. Go drive around. Sit in the parking lot of some local duplexes and watch who's coming in and out of those.

I'M JUST SAYING and many of us have, but not long term.

>> I'm calling balls and strikes right now.

Go sit in a parking lot because your husband's not on this call. He may go, "Well, Ken is okay. Here's what he needs

to do. Go sit in the parking lot of four or five different area duplexes and just take a just just kind of pay attention to what's going on." Now, I also want to say one other thing. Actually, it's a question. >> Are you guys in a a nice apartment right now? What what's your situation?

It's a 2x one right now. It's a twobedroom, one bathroom, which is fine.

We just We know we're going to need more space. >> Stop it. Stop it. You'd been married two months. Is it a nice apartment complex?

>> It's fine. >> Overall, yes, it's fine.

>> You got a nice pool.

>> Uh, all right. >> Listen, they'll be okay. You guys have big home ownership goals.

>> I know. I was going to I was trying to get her trapped to go. Would you just enjoy being married and not having not having to worry about a roof? >> Here's the thing. >> Or the HVAC. I mean, this is things that young couples don't think about. Let me tell you something. Everybody wants a house. Nobody wants to deal with the problems of a house. >> Truer words have not been stated.

>> Okay. That's what I want to say to young couples. Cool it. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you have no stress right now

living in an apartment. You got none.

>> Yeah. Because when I once you buy a home and I say the word water, you like it,

the moment you experience water being in the wrong place, owning a home. >> Let me tell you something right now, Jade. I'm I'm I'm going to be an old man right now. I'm griping about the fact that I just had to spend $2,500 to get my beautiful, gorgeous tree in my front yard cut down and get the stump taken out because of an ice storm.

>> I just want to keep it real for all you young couples that are just dying to get a house. Well, guess what? I had to cut the tree down because it split into it blew up because of the ice. >> To pay an arborist is crazy money.

>> 2500 bucks. >> Yeah, man. I know. >> Do you think I was And by the way, I have it. But do you think I was happy about it? >> It's never fun. >> I'm still griping about it right now.

All of America's having to deal with me griping. But guess what? That h that doesn't happen when you live in a nice little apartment complex and the ice storm comes through. >> Well, yeah. Cuz then you just call maintenance and you're like, "Hey, >> yeah. Something goes wrong. They send Roger up." >> Yeah. And Roger comes in, you know, and he fixes it and then we go on date night. >> Yeah, exactly. But in a house, it hits different. >> I'm still griping about that tree. And by the way, it's a gorgeous tree. Yeah.

Gone. >> Let me tell you, I'm still a little offended about what you said about us duplex dwellers.

>> Was I wrong?

>> I don't know, kid. >> Y'all drive around this weekend. Spend 45 minutes in the duplex parking lot.

Pay attention to who's coming in and out of those places. That's all I'm saying.

I'm keeping it real. >> Oh boy. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to have financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 261. You Can’t Make the Same Money Mistakes and Get Better Outcomes | January 28, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Gamble, joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruz and co-host of another show we do together, Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. The number to call is88255225.

And I'd be remiss not to mention this this crazy winter storm that has hit our area, Nashville, very hard. So, thinking and praying for all of those that have been affected by this. >> For sure. A lot without power. >> We made it here through the ice to provide this show. It's what America needs right now, I guess. Rachel, here we are. Jake is going to kick us off in Detroit. Jake, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> How's it going? >> Great. How are you? How can we help?

>> Doing all right. Um, so, uh, me, my

cousin, and our friend, we started a company. Um, and we do like paranormal investigations and things like that.

>> Paranormal investigation. We're talking ghosts. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Wait, what? >> Real life Ghostbuster.

>> Yes. So, um,

I give you like a basic what we do. We kind of just like go into people's homes and and confirm that there's a presence there. Um, >> shut up. >> How do you do this, Jake?

>> Um, so it's a number of things. Uh, it

depends on, you know, where we're at. um

you know what what kind of person we're dealing with as in like we know what what the spirit is because sometimes you get understood the basics of what you know you know what paranormal investigating was built on opposed all the fancy equipment. We do have a bunch of equipment but it it depends on >> like detects like orbs and stuff.

>> Yeah. So uh >> I know about orbs. I've done I've done a ghost tour in my my >> you called on the right day. Rachel is all she's about to pay you. Okay. So, sorry. Sorry. This is this is a business you started with your cousin.

>> Yeah, my cousin and then our friend.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, three of you. When did you start the business?

>> Um, we started a business in August of

25. >> Okay. And how much have you guys made from this business so far?

>> Um, so based on what we're looking at, we're looking at between 10 and $20,000 a year. >> Um, >> between the three of you, that's going to be split.

>> Yeah. Okay. So now my my question is is that is there a possibility cuz obviously we can't do a full-time offer of $20,000 a year even if it was just one of us. Um so my question is is

number one is it possible for me to do this full-time and number two if it is what are the steps to making this a full-time thing.

>> Okay so let's talk about it regardless of what the business or hobby is. Let's talk through this how to do this wisely.

We always tell people you want to get the boat close to the dock. Meaning, we want this business to be generating enough income to where you clearly can go, hey, if I did this 40 hours a week and we scaled up, I could definitely replace my income, if not get a raise.

>> So, what are you making now?

>> Um, right now, uh, my full-time job, >> uh, around $60,000 a year.

>> Good for you. >> So, let's say the business, you were like, "Hey, we can see a path where this could make 180K this year after expenses. is we could we could pay ourselves 180k, 60 grand each to make this work. Would you all go all in on it? >> No, absolutely.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, with the partnership side, Jake, that's the that's the money side.

And I will say there partnerships can be very difficult and the fact that you guys have three people who are going to have ownership in this company. um you guys need to write out very very very very clearly kind of this um almost

contract between you all when the worst case happens because for a lot of people in partnerships the worst case happens and that's everything from um addictions

um affairs divorces uh I mean you go

death yes someone >> wants out and they want to buy out you got to buy out their share now how does that work >> all of it so you got to go through like in like a lot of detail.

family member and a good friend." there's a a chance that that um

relationship doesn't survive if something happens to the business. >> Cuz here's what happens. Likely one of you is going to be working harder or at least think you're working harder than the other ones. And so then there's resentment. You go, "Well, I feel like I should get 50%. You guys should get 25 each cuz I'm handling all the business.

I'm doing all the sales." And so that's where you guys need to get very clear on what the roles are, what the boundary lines are between your your KAS, your key results areas. And so if you do it that way, this could be a fun hobby that turns into something. What's your current game plan? Like how do you get customers?

>> Um so uh it's really word of mouth and

we have social media but it's not really you know social media social media isn't really you know big or anything. Um but it's really word of mouth. So if we um like we did an investigation at uh a

pretty big uh barbecue restaurant uh near us um and that got us a few other

people. Um now as for what you were saying with the uh with people having

you know written out roles. So um

I am the I I I consider myself a lead.

It just is how how it is. So, but most of the time I am scheduling. I am, you

know, finding new customers if possible.

I, you know, looking for anything new.

>> So, you're like customer acquisition, new business. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What about the other two? >> Um, >> my cousin, she is the the merchandise person. Oh, >> we got merch already >> as well as >> what was that? >> You got merch like t-shirts and hats.

What are we talking? Uh uh so um Holly,

we we go to like a third party place where they create it and and we don't buy anything. They just they sell it and we get a little bit little >> Got it. Like a drop ship situation.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. And then third person, the friend. >> Uh yeah, he is the equipment tech. Um so what he does is if he wants to he well, first of all, if anybody asks questions, he's the guy to ask. Um he's like the

>> Yeah. All >> without him, this whole business kind of dissolves. >> Well, no, not mean all of us know all about the equipment. It's just I I have him making having him ask answer all the questions because um

basically to keep the workhold off of myself and my cousin.

>> So, uh him and I know all about the equipment. My cousin still knows about it, but she doesn't know. >> Gotcha. Okay.

But >> um >> uh basically what his job is is number one to explain the equipment to people if they have questions. Number two is that if you want if he finds a new piece of equipment his job is to learn as much about that piece of equipment as possible. Bring it to the company and say here here's this it cost this this amount of money and it can do this this and this and this you know we I think we should buy it and then we have a discussion about it. >> Okay.

Most important question.

>> Oh yeah. >> And then what happens? Do you get like a reward?

>> Uh, >> you get paid the same amount whether you find something or not. >> It's a good question. >> Um, yeah. So, basically how I work is is

it's kind of like, you know, a money back guarantee. Um, so if you go in here and uh so we we charge anywhere between

$50 to $110 to$160

per per house depending on, you know, what we're looking at, what the dangers are. Um, >> you said $160 on the high end.

Yeah, >> I think you guys need to up your prices, man. This is serious work.

>> If you want to scale it, you need to look at all the factors here and you need to get enough people in the pipeline where you can go, "Hey, if we did this full time, we can make this work." >> To the point that you're having to turn people down cuz you don't have time for it. >> That's how you know this is going to work. But for now, leave it as a hobby.

Continue to try to grow it. I would start a YouTube channel and really make this a media company. >> That's a good point. And it's been what, six months? They said since August.

>> August of 25. So, yeah, we're talking six months still early on. So, yep. I would just take your time. Don't rush into anything and don't go into debt for this equipment. Save up and pay cash.

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George is up next in New York, New Jersey. George, welcome to the show.

>> Are you with us? >> Uh, thank you. Thank you. Sorry about that. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Oh, yes. >> What's going on? >> How's it going, guys? Rocking and rolling. Um, first off, you guys are awesome. Uh I've been working with you all for maybe like uh going on two years about to be debtree this year and everything like that working with the Smart Investor Pro in Maryland. So >> Oh, good. Amazing.

>> Um I had a quick question for you. Um hopefully uh this is your area expertise. If not, then hopefully you can guide me in the right direction. I um before I was working with you all, I you know I was ignorant to a lot of stuff. So, I had um got mixed up back in

maybe 2016 with a um a guy from my gym. Uh long

story short, uh he's he was running an LLC supposedly and um I was investing

into a highinterest savings account.

>> Um so basically I got scammed. Long story short, he got me for 38 grand.

>> Oh no.

>> And then I hired lawyers lawyers and everything like that. Um, so I all in all I was out maybe like 40 about 45 grand. >> Oh my gosh, George. Awful. I'm so >> sorry. Was it like a Ponzi scheme kind of thing or like a like >> or he would take your money and invest, you know, put it somewhere else thinking he would make a difference and then he ended up not and lost all your money.

>> Exactly. >> Oh man. >> So I um, you know, again, this is before I met you guys. I wish I would have met you guys sooner, but um, that's done.

So, it's kind of a thorn in my side because I'm trying to figure out whether I should continue going after him because um I already went to court. We already got the judgment. He didn't show up and everything like that. Um you know, he got served and everything.

But the thing is, you know, I had to learn about the law because the judgment is just basically for people right now because he got rid of all the Yeah, exactly. >> If he doesn't have assets, >> he got rid of all >> doesn't have income you can garnish.

>> Basically, that's basically what what I want to do. You say you've been chasing for 4 years. Who who has actually been the person trying to track him down and >> and get him to pay? >> Uh uh I hired a um a debt collection

company and then um at first it was you know it was free and everything like that because uh you know they would you know they get paid I get paid kind of kind of deal. So then after maybe like a year or two, then they want they asked me if I wanted to like increase the some some

kind of excuse they gave me and it was like another two grand or whatever I think to to push stuff forward because this is during the pandemic. >> Yeah. >> So to push like paperwork for it and so that added to the money that I'm out and I wanted to see if you guys think I should just count it as a loss or just you know cuz without assets, you know, now that I know that it's just >> Yeah, that's my fear. You spent 25 grand chasing this guy down and then it turns out you don't get a dime from him.

Well, now you just lost another 25 grand. So, it may be time to emotionally write this off and call it a stupid tax and move on. >> Yeah. >> If it's been four years, I mean, this is this is weighing on you.

It's living rentree in your head. And I think it's time to move on. >> Oh, yeah. >> People do all kinds of dumb moves and lose 40 grand.

You know, I went 40 grand in consumer debt back in the day.

>> Got you. Okay, I figured that.

>> I'm so sorry, man. >> Sorry, George. >> I'm like like when I I'm like a dog who's like, I want to I want to get this >> you on justice, right? >> I want to go full John Wick, man. You know, but at some point >> and it was $38,000, you know? It's not $3,800. Like that's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. But the crazy thing is is I do think once you emotionally

>> kind of just get over it, right? You detach and you're like, "Okay, I am moving on." Um, you start to really

really see what you can do and what you have the power to do as you're experiencing now on baby step two, George. Like you're getting yourself out of debt. Like that money will come back, right? Like you will be able to turn all this around, but it's just emotionally having just to to let it go, which sucks.

Sorry you're dealing with that. That makes sense. >> Maybe this will get you debt free faster. If you allocate all of your energy and focus and resources towards that, I think you'll feel a whole lot better and it'll be a fun story you share with your kids one day when you're a multi-millionaire.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah.

>> Best of luck, my friend. That's brutal, Rachel. That reminds me when I got scammed long ago, fraud happened. People opened up AT&T accounts, Verizon accounts under my name, social security number, past address. horrible.

>> Racked up 1,700 bucks on both accounts, never paid a dime. And so I had to deal with that. And luckily I had Xander ID theft. And so they stepped in and helped clean this mess up. But I found who the people were cuz I was a sleuth.

>> You found who it was? Like the individuals? >> Yeah. And I really wanted to go full, you know, wishbone on the case and go, I'm going to investigate. I'm going to bring them to justice. And then I just I'm like, what am I doing? What am I doing? >> Just Nancy Drew. >> I don't know how dangerous these women are. >> Yeah. Was it women? >> It was two women. >> No way. still have their names >> here like in America. >> They were in Boston in the Boston area.

I lived in Tennessee at the time, but they opened these accounts up in Boston. So, >> George. >> Yeah, there you go. I'm not going to I'm going to I'll leave that for future investigations, but >> goodness gracious. It's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow when it happens.

All right, Dominic is in South Bend up next. Dominic, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. >> What's going on? So, I've heard you guys speak about zero credit score and buying

houses with manual underwriting.

>> I purchased a home years before hearing about you. So, having a zero credit score when buying my next one >> won't be an option.

>> Sure. You have a credit score now due to your mortgage payment, >> correct? Is that alone going to be enough to maintain a good enough score or what's the >> Have you made your mortgage payments on time? >> Yeah, that's >> great. you likely have a a great score.

>> So, there's no need to open up new credit accounts and credit cards to try to increase it. When you go to get another mortgage, they're just going to look at yours and go, "Okay, is your debt to income ratio good? Do you have a history of on-time payments?" And they'll grant you that. So, unless you have you checked your credit score, is it in the tank or is it solid?

>> No, it's solid. I just I wasn't sure if just a mortgage alone would be enough in the future. >> Yes. >> Or if they needed more history.

No, you'll be good. And if you ever have questions about it, you can always contact, you know, Church Hill Mortgage and they can walk you through what they actually look for, but you're this the score is the score. That's what they're looking for. And so they're not going to say, "Well, you don't have enough types of debt." That's all factored into your score.

And so if your score is solid, you're going to be fine.

>> Okay. >> Until you'll go back through that process. But you're on you're on the path, man. Good for you. How long until you pay off the house?

I don't think I'll pay it off.

>> Not with that attitude, Dominic. What's left in the morning? >> My first home. I still owe

>> 160 on it. >> Okay. >> Cuz you're saying you'll probably move homes, move houses before you paid it off. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know that's a but it's a good question because we do talk about people not having to worship at the altar of you know the credit the the FICO score the credit score because you can actually get a house called you know through manual underwriting but if you have a bad credit score and you go and apply for a mortgage they're going to pull your credit score regardless that will hurt you. Yes, if you have one that's undetermined then you can do manual underwriting.

If you have a bad credit score when you go and get a mortgage and as you're getting out of debt, George, for a lot of people, consumer debt, >> your score will lower as you, you know what I mean? Like as you're starting to get out, >> that's how stupid the credit score game is. You're like, "Wait, I'm doing good things. I'm knocking out debt." And they're like, "Yeah, but we don't like that." >> I know.

>> We'd rather you keep it around, pay it perfectly. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, on baby step 2, you guys, if you're paying off your debt and then you try to go and get a mortgage, which is not part of the, you know, that's baby step 3B, but if you try to do it earlier and they pull your credit score, it may not be great because you're paying off your debt, your consumer debt.

>> But very few people, and here's they always go, "Well, what about once I'm out of debt?" I'm like, "Well, then you still need to save up your emergency fund and then still save up your down payment." And so, you're talking potentially years of not having a score, which is fine. So, your credit score will not be in the tank as long as you actually close all accounts. Yes. Yes, if you still have any accounts open or you still have a credit card open, that will show up on your credit report and keep your credit score alive.

So, make sure when you pull that credit report, nothing is active. And then 6 to 12 months later, there's no real exact timeline, but that's what I've experienced and many that I've talked to. Your credit score just becomes indeterminable. It doesn't actually go to zero.

>> Yeah. It's not actually technically a zero credit score. >> We just like to say that because it sounds cool. >> That's fun.

>> Z What's your credit score?

>> Zero. I don't have one. >> That's the real flex. And that's honestly how they operated back in the day, like in our parents' day.

The credit score has only existed since the '9s. So before then, you're like, "Well, how do people get homes?" Well, they looked at your actual tax return. You had a relationship with the bank, >> and they looked at your income and savings. I went, "Okay, >> your other bills, if you pay on time, what, you know, if you're a trustworthy um borrower that they can lend money to, like they looked at you as a person, which is what manual underwriting does anyway, >> instead of the computers going, "Good credit score, give them a loan." And so, it's really not that difficult.

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There we go. Join us. It's going to be a good time. Tommy is in Colorado up next.

Tommy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you guys. How are you guys doing? >> We're doing great. What's your question today? >> Hey, so I me and my wife just bought a

house um in August. And turns out that

the HOA has about a million dollars in deferred maintenance. Their solution is to do a $5,000 special assessment and then hopefully increase dues going forward. >> Mhm. We're wondering if it's a good idea to stay or maybe try and cut our losses and get out of this situation.

>> Wow, that's pretty aggressive over a onetime $5,000 fee. What do you know that we don't?

>> Um the couple things is um the total amount to get back to zero would be a $20,000 fee.

>> Okay. So, there might be more assessments in the future.

>> There might be more in the future. And then we live in a high fire zone, high fire danger community in 50-year-old houses. We lost our HOA coverage this

year and we are being covered by excess insurance and we're expecting that to probably go up to almost 75 cents of

every dollar that comes and produce.

>> Was this disclosed to you, Tommy, when you guys bought because you just when did you say you bought? Just uh like in August, what' you say?

>> In in August. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um there was nothing to disclose. Um, at

best we maybe could have dug into the documents and found it, but the HOA is not in very good shape. >> Well, do you like where you live right now aside from these fees?

>> Um, we really like the house. Um, but

yeah, we're just concerned about the money. Um, it was mentioned that the HOA

if this does not pass, which it's a community vote, we could head towards bankruptcy as a community.

>> Yikes.

Okay. What's the HO fee now monthly and what will it go up to?

>> 300 $340 a month. Um and then there's no

consensus about the raises would be um

>> the documents are extremely limited uh to 3% a year, but that's not enough to keep up. >> Okay. Well, the bad news is you got to pay this 5,000 assessment no matter what. Even if you sell, it's going to come out. And so you're not going to get out of that. So, what you're really asking is, is it worth it to live here long term knowing it's going to get more expensive to live here?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. What's the uh what's your mortgage payment percentage-wise to the income you guys bring home?

>> Um just shy of 30%.

>> Just shy. Okay. Okay. And if and because these dues, you know, the HOA and insurance and all that, we kind of wrap into our 25% rule of of what your percentage should be from a mortgage standpoint to income.

Um, so I'm wondering as these start to

notch up, if you know, if you start to get to be, yeah, over 30%, 35%, I mean,

all of that, then there gets to a point that you can't afford to live there anymore, right? Uh, but I feel like that would take a lot in order for that to to continue to raise.

>> Um, I just factored in just the mortgage. If I were to factor everything else in, it would be closer to 40% currently with the HOA

insurance. >> Is there is there room for your incomes to grow?

>> There is. >> Okay. I would hold off personally. I don't think this is like we got to get out right now.

>> Uh, I would hold off since you enjoy where you live. This is just a part of living in society, unfortunately. And HOAs get a lot of hate for a valid reason. And assessments are are part of the annoyance.

You're like, I already pay so much to live here. Now you're just going to throw five. It's like the mafia. It's like, give us five grand or else.

And you have no way out of it. And so long term, if you see the writing on the wall, if three years from now your income hasn't gone up, and yet all of your dues keep going up, the assessments keep showing up, that could be a sign, hey, it's time to move.

The sooner you sell, the more of a loss you're going to take >> because you got to pay realtor fees and you probably don't have much appreciation at this point. So, this could be a way more than a $5,000 loss just to get out.

>> Yeah. Now, we were estimating 25,000 loss to get out. >> Yeah. So, I I don't want to, you know, eat 25 grand to save five. And I think you're going to know a lot in 12 months,

right? After after a year, I just I think that a lot will kind of shake out and you guys will kind of see where you're at. And then to your point, George, you could look up, you know, and say, "Okay, let's stick it out for another year. Let's see where our incomes are at that point. See what the HOA is doing, you know, and you can make you can make the call, yeah, in three years or so." But I probably wouldn't go any less than three just because of everything attached to it feewise.

>> And if you want to live in a non-HOA community, you're going to have to go probably further out and it may not be a home that you love. And so this is a trade-off of living where you want to live. HOAs are everywhere. All right, Mark is in Sacramento up next. Mark, welcome to the show.

>> How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um I told your screener, uh I'm

just about I'll be 63 next month and I

got a whole term uh whole life

insurance. >> Okay. that I've been paying into.

>> Oh god. Since before I was 30.

>> Oh wow. You made someone very wealthy.

>> Well, my brother's the one that signed me up for it. That hurts even more business anymore.

>> Yeah. So So my cash value is up well over $40,000.

The policy itself only pays out 160.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm married. My wife is 64. You

know, she's obviously the beneficiary.

And from what I understand from listening to your show that should I pass away, my

wife will get the 160 and and all the cash value is just >> goes to the insurance company. >> Yeah. It's horrible. >> Yeah.

In most policies, that's how it's structured, which is insane. I'm with you. Um, at 63, you might have a hard time getting term life in place now, but it's it's worth looking into and to see, you know, it's going to be expensive, but your whole life policy is also very expensive. What are you paying per month?

>> Oh god, it it went up this year like over 200 bucks.

year. >> Oh my goodness. How much do you guys have in retirement? Are you self-insured to where if you didn't have this policy in place, your wife would be okay?

>> That's something.

Me and my wife uh not including our house are at about 1.2 million.

>> Okay. You might be at a spot and you can consult with a you know financial adviser to see, hey, is this worth keeping around? Because if you just put 1,700 bucks in a savings account, you might be better off than continuing to pay this with 160k payout.

>> Well, that's what I'm you know. Or or

what about taking out the cash value?

>> Yeah, I mean that's another option. you you surrender the policy, take the cash value, invest that plus your 1,700 bucks a month, you'll >> probably be better off. >> You'll get to 160 pretty fast as long as you're still with us. And I hope you are.

>> Well, okay, that's my question. Um >> Mhm. >> I would run the numbers. This might be something you keep around for now until you're very sure that if something were to happen, you are self-insured. But 1.2 2 million based on your expenses, you might go, "Yeah, we can easily drop this and get this money out of here with what we already have." Exactly.

>> 1,700 bucks on top of your 40k. That'll add up fast, my friend. And I'm so sorry that your brother hosed you into this. I don't know what your relationship is like. >> 30 years ago. 30 years ago.

>> It's all water under the bridge.

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Anna is up next in Seattle. Anna, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you. >> What's going on?

Okay. So, I bought a house in August.

Um, briefly, I'm a divorced single mom. I have two kids. I basically used my divorce settlement to buy this house. I put a big down payment. Um, and even now, I am struggling with um having a

pretty high um uh mortgage payment with

my with my income. Um, and I don't think

it's sustainable. And I'm sort of going back and forth on, you know, what is it

the best decision? If it wasn't, you know, it's done now, but what could I do to kind of help myself move forward? Um, I bought a house and I thought I would have some money left over, but in I had to pay off my car in escrow, and that added an extra like $18,000 in order for me to get my debt to income ratio low enough to be approved. So, >> that increased the amount of mortgage you needed, which increased the payment.

Mhm. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, >> tell us the ratios. What is your mortgage payment and what is your after tax monthly income? >> So, my mortgage is um 38.80. Excuse me.

Just I don't know 30 38.90. Let's say

that. That includes all of the homeowners insurance and um insurance and uh property tax. So, they they put it in there. >> So, um yeah. So 30 38 3,800. Um

and my net pay is $6,225

a month. >> Oh yeah. So it's >> I make I mean I I make 103,000

but I live in Seattle and it's a very expensive. >> So we're talking 2/3 of your takehome is going toward the mortgage >> and that's not leaving a whole lot left to live and put food on the table let alone accomplish any financial goals.

Are you getting child support at all, Anna? >> Yeah, I get I get um I get $850 a month

for two kids.

>> Okay. >> And that's on top of your 6,200.

>> Yeah, that's on top.

>> All right, that helps a little. >> So, yeah, we can count that. Yeah, we kind of count all income coming even in even if it is child support or alimony.

>> Um Okay. >> So, >> that gets you to like 55%. Now, does that include >> the take-home pay? Are you Do you have any deductions coming out like health care premiums, 401k?

>> Um I I pay my health care I my kids

healthcare are on their dad's and I pay I have to help pay for that. Um mine my deductions are just the typical t taxes just tax stuff. Okay. >> And a 401 I do I do contribute to 401k.

>> How much what percent?

>> Um I believe I I I think I meet my

company match. I think it's four%.

>> Okay. So, you're likely investing if you make 100K, we're talking four grand.

>> And so, you wouldn't include that for the 25% parameter, which also helps your number. So, now we're down to like 50ish%, which is not great, but at least

we're kind of we can see the forest from the trees here. Is there room for your income to grow?

>> Um, there's a little bit. Um, I mean I

don't I wouldn't say anytime soon.

>> Okay. >> No.

>> But when did you buy this house? >> Like the line of work I'm in I bought in August. >> Okay. It's only been half a year.

>> Yeah. It's similar to to our last caller. Six months. Because there's not going to be a ton of equity. already I

mean it's uh I I already well I mean I

don't know how accurate you know looking at red fin etc is but I mean there is there is already equity in the house you know >> what would you get if you sold it after >> after you know net of fees and all that

>> I mean I don't I don't I haven't calculated the fees but I bought it for

uh 730 and it's I mean it says it's

worth between 820 and 9 something. Yeah, I >> I'd be shocked in six months for one 15 grand. >> Zillow's always Zillow and Redfin, they're not always accurate. I know.

I know. So, what you could do, Anna, just to gather information as you're thinking about this because it is a big enough um question financially for you >> is to get a realtor and have them just pull some comps in the area and just see. I mean, you know, maybe it's gone up a little bit. Um, I mean, I don't know, but after you factor in maybe a little bit of equity, but then all the fees and the realer fees and all that when you sell the commissions, like once you factor it all in, you you may end up losing money if you end up selling, right?

went through something like that and having kids, you want a place to land.

You want something that you're like, "Okay, this is our home. We're building this new life, right?" And so like I could see it almost being an emotional

decision and not always factoring in like, okay, what is this actually going to feel like in real life? So, I don't fault you for that. It makes sense, but we also want to get you into a place where you can start building walls and you have some breathing room cuz, you know, going through a divorce, I'm like, that's that's in of itself extremely stressful. >> And then you put on top of a financial strain, which so many single moms, they I mean, you were in the boat with so many people.

Um, >> which is so it's so hard, so heartbreaking having to raise these two kids too along with everything.

>> Um, I mean, I I'm working on it. I

I mean, a big part of why I got divorced

was because of my financial incompetence, >> because of yours. >> Um, because of mine.

>> So, what what went on there? Just um

just not keeping up with details, spending whatever you want. Like, what does that look like? >> Yeah. like hidden like hidden debt. Um you know I'm working on it. I'm actually in a like a DA program which is helping >> good. >> Um so I I I was completely out of debt

and now I have I have debt again. Um

home cost or you know you know obviously

because I I kind of living outside my means but I do I do know some places I can tighten. I do have kind of a side job. I teach classes and I can more.

>> Um >> have you cut off all access to debt?

Have you frozen your credit? Yeah, I don't I don't use my I don't use my credit cards. I mean, the other question I had is I do own my car and my car is worth, I'd say, $18,000, but I could easily, if feel, you know,

sell it and then get a car that is, you know, combat good for my kids and for me and for commuting, but and you probably

you're not going to free up a down payment and then you're going to downgrade a car and you might have, you know, eight grand, but that doesn't solve that mortgage problem.

>> Yeah. your car is not the issue at this point. >> So, I would I would hang on like Rachel said for, you know, 2 years and then see where you're at. Nothing is like you're not going to miss a mortgage payment.

You're just sort of skating by right now in survival mode and it is going to be uncomfortable. And that's where the budget is really going to help you cuz now whatever is left over after that mortgage payment comes out, you have to be very intentional with >> and that's where a budgeting app like every dollar will help. So, I'll we'll make that our gift to you to help you figure all this out. And when you fill out that every dollar budget, you'll list your income for the month, include the child support, and then below will be all of your expenses.

>> Yep. Um Yes. So stay on the line and Christian will pick up. And uh George, I vote that Anna cuts up all of her credit cards tonight.

>> Absolutely. You said you don't use them, but you still have them. I think I think you just cut it off at the source since you know it's an issue, right? Just in general, it's been Just cut it off at the source.

And listen, if you hate it, I know I only >> If you hate it, I promise they'll let you back in. >> You can get another one. >> Yeah. I only have I only have one and I paid I pay a lot off one is all it takes every month.

>> I'll tell you that you can still do some damage. >> I'm not kidding though.

Force yourself to use your money because there is something even if you pay it off every month. There's something about in the moment taking care of groceries, your whatever it is, when you pay it, it's done. There's not a bill coming and it actually factors in psychologically and you end up actually spending less when that's the case. And so I would try it, Anna.

You're you're kind of on this whole new journey. Um this whole new chapter, this whole new life, right? And so >> do something so different. >> You're the kind of person who doesn't swipe the credit card, who uses her own money >> because she doesn't have one, right?

Cuz she cut it up. >> I love it. >> I love that challenge, too. >> I I I should Sorry.

I can I go Let me go back. I I have one credit card I pay off every month. My other credit card I don't use it.

you know, some new things in the house and get some appliances and it had a 0%.

>> Well, I would cut it up, pay it off, and close the account. And I want you to try no debt, Anna. Like, hardcore. And it's extreme.

This is extreme in our world today, but be so hardcore with it and be so extreme and do it for 6 months and see how you feel. Cuz I'm telling you, there is a freedom there. You don't even realize the burden you're carrying. So, if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls at88255225.

Katie is in South Carolina up next.

Katie, what's going on?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Um, I hope y'all are well.

>> We are. What's going on with you today?

How can we help? >> So, I mean, I I might sound crazy for saying this, but I just can't shake the feeling that we're charging a little bit too much money. And I guess I'm looking

for a way to justify my guilt or you

know try and figure out how to process you know how fast do we want to grow and how should we scale our company.

>> Okay. So we is this your husband?

>> Yeah. My husband started this business before we got married and I kind of joined him after that. We've been in business for about 11 years.

>> Cool. What kind of business is it?

>> It's a a trucking company. So we we do some hauling. >> Wow. Well, that business has really taken off, hasn't it?

>> Yeah. >> What do you guys uh bring in?

>> Uh so last year we brought in 290,000

sales and then after, you know, paying everyone and expenses, we profited about

120,000 >> and that's as a household. So that's your household income for the year. >> So that's not the household income. Most of that stayed in the business. Um you that that was just what the business profited. We paid ourselves about 50,000. Oh wow. And that's together.

That's total that came to you guys. Wow.

All right. >> Yep. Correct. >> So where did this price hike come into play and why?

>> Yeah. So we our pricing is very simple.

We just match what the competition is around us. We don't have a lot of competitors. Um and you know, we're one

of the few people that do our specific type of hauling in our area. Um, so we

really have just always kind of matched what market price is, but I'm kind of looking at a case by case, job by job,

and realizing that the range of profit we have on each job is is super wide. So

sometimes it's, you know, a small amount of profit, but a lot of the time it's quite large. Um, so I'm just kind of,

you know, when I brought up the idea of restructuring how we do our pricing and,

you know, taking it from super simple to trying to be a little bit more specific so we can afford to help some people that usually say, "Oh, no, you're too expensive." Well, you know, if we were willing to make 40% profit on that job instead of 60, maybe that person would have said yes. Um, >> do you feel like you need more business?

Do you feel like you need more business? Well, so our work is very seasonal. The demand in season is so high, we can't keep up with it, but then during the off season, it's not really a thing. Um, so

we, you know, we obviously slow down a lot. And that's we're blessed that, you know, able to work very full-time, overtime, 6 months out of the year is enough for us to live off of. And then the rest of the time we can work on side gigs or spending more time with family, which is great. Um, so yes and no. We

definitely don't need more work. We can't handle it in the summer, but the idea is obviously to grow, so we can do even more during the summer, if that makes sense. >> Got it. So, is there a moral profit

margin in your mind that it's like anything above this, it's immoral to charge? >> Well, I don't have a specific number.

It's more the concept of, you know, is it is that even a valid question?

>> Well, I mean, if you look at prices, is his reasoning, hey, everything's gone up. Everything costs us more. fuel, insurance, maintenance, tires, labor, permits, like that's all gone up. And so it's not like he's tripling the cost just for fun. >> And you guys are bringing home 50 grand as a household. >> And it's a specific type of service that you said. There's not a lot of competition and high demand.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> and not a lot of supply, which means you can charge more. And it's not like you're hurting anybody. They're happily paying you for this service that they can't do themselves.

>> Yes. the more I say it out loud, the know the more I know I'm kind of making my husband sound like a superstar in business. But, uh, you know, I just always back to I always go back to the few cases where people have asked us for help and, you know, we give them our price and they're like, "Oh, you know, that's way over budget." And in my head, I'm saying, "I really know I could have helped this person out. I could have met their needs." >> Sure.

>> Yeah, I hear you. So I wonder if because

you know even here at Ramsay for instance like we give stuff away a lot whether it's tickets to a live event books you know um and some stuff it's like very nice coaching you know one-on-one coaching that we'll pay for people's sessions like yeah >> we will um have life with an open hands

business-wise but we're only able to do that because we are making a profit on the other end that is feeding a thousand people that work here and their families and all of it right so so there there is room to be if there is room to be generous I would talk to your husband about that and say hey you know and I hate to this sounds so like legalistic and I don't mean to be this like for formulaic about it but I don't know K I'm just thinking like four different situations you know throughout the summer when you guys are in high demand and people like we need you but I can't afford that pricing you know are there four times that you can say and you guys agree on that like hey I just feel something in my spirit that I'm supposed that I'm supposed to extend some grace to them and help them.

>> Yeah.

the practice of doing that when you feel led, but it's not changing the whole structure of the company because I don't feel like you guys are >> doing something wrong or immoral to George's point. And okay, >> you know, you're you know, you you guys are bringing home 50k a year out of this. >> We're far from being greedy here. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not like you're making, you know, 5 million and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I feel like we're overcharging everyone." >> Most of your customers are making more than you. And so that's the other thing to think about here is you guys also need to put food on the table and you have financial goals and there's nothing wrong or immoral about making money.

Have you screwed anyone over? Have you lied? Have you cheated? >> Right.

No. Yeah.

>> And so it's okay to say this is what our service is worth and we're going to charge it. And if you can't afford it, that's not a slight on them. It's just saying hey there's you need to go somewhere else that you can afford.

>> And so >> I can't I can't get everything that I want. There's things that I can't afford and I don't expect that business to go, well, can you just bring the budget down for me? >> This is not a charity. If you want to start a charity, go for it.

You can open a nonprofit and do all kinds of charitable giving. >> Yeah. But I wonder could she kind of like scratch the itch a little bit within it, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, any industry, Katie, there's going to be people that can't afford, you know what I mean? I'm like, I was just think about I don't know. That's why I thought social media. I'm like, people that, you know, need help with social media. There's people that do that as a job that that charge insane

money because they're really good at it or people that are starting out and don't charge much. And I, you know, you couldn't afford, you know, the highends.

That's okay. It's a service they provide. And just because they charge a lot, >> you know, doesn't make them a bad person. It means they're probably really good at their job or they found this niche area of life, which is what you guys have done. So, >> so nothing bad, but I would say lean into when you can. Um, and it's not the

whole business model, but if there's moments to say, "Hey, I I want to be generous in this instance." You and your husband get on the same page with that. And maybe that'll kind of help free up your spirit some in that generosity.

>> Think about it this way. If you guys charge more and you make more, that gives you the freedom to be more generous when the time comes without it being a loss for you. And so I I think there's nothing wrong with that. And listen, if you charge too much, you'll go out of business eventually.

And so you'll know when the price is right, when you have the right amount of supply and demand happening. And so I'm I don't think anyone's right or wrong here. I think we need to meet in the middle and understand you want to be generous and he needs to pay the bills.

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Matthew is in Denver. Up next, Matthew,

welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are y'all doing this afternoon? >> We're doing great. How can Rachel and I help? >> Um, so I just uh I was going to get some advice. Um, I was my wife and I are looking uh taking a $100,000 loan from

my father uh to buy an 8-unit rental property. Um, and I just kind of wanted to see what you guys thought um based on the details of the property and everything else.

>> Uh, yeah, let's hear it because not not

uh super excited about this as of now

taking out a loan but >> from your father-in-law but um yeah, give me your your numbers. What are you thinking? Okay. So, uh I got a $900,000 property

um at 3% interest owner finance. Um and

so it's going to be $100,000 of my money, $100,000 loan from my dad. And

then um the owner is willing to do $100,000 of inind money is what she calls it. Um and that uh includes

repairs and improvements on the property uh for a period of 10 years. Um, and

then she's also willing to mentor my wife and I uh for two years uh the first two years that we own the home. And then at the end of the 10 years, it's going to be a a balloon payment. And I know this kind of goes against a lot of >> the Dave Ramsey uh uh I guess principles. But I wanted to see what you guys thought because I I think it might be a good opportunity for us to >> kind of get a business and and start moving that way.

>> Do you guys own a home currently? A primary home?

currently and we have uh no debts or payments at all besides that house.

>> Oh, besides the house, what's left on that mortgage? >> Uh 190,000.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh we make around 135,000. Uh and

there's a lot of room for growth there.

>> Cool. How did this idea come up of the eight unit and then your dad loaning you the money? Who brought it up? Um, so we

met this woman um at a graduation um and

we we had owned a a single family home investment property and we got to talking to her and she and we I kind of told her that we're we're real estate investors and she's like, "Oh, well, I got a deal for you. My husband and I are trying to uh get out of this property because her husband is uh is pretty sick

and um they're just trying to move down to Arizona. And um so that's kind of how

this got brought up. And then she is the one that's kind of structured this deal.

>> Sounds like it. >> So she knows your dad and was like, "Well, if he ponies up 100, you pony up 100, we can make this work." >> Um >> and I'll mentor you for two years from

Arizona.

Yeah, she's kind of curtail related to my wife. U not by blood or anything, but

uh >> Matthew, I just see 85 ways this could go sideways.

>> It's not It's not worth it. It's not. I mean, from the way the loan structured with the balloon happening in 10 years,

um, all this borrowing from family, uh,

going into a $900,000 investment property, um, that you don't have the money for, you got I mean, do how much y'all have saved? How much cash do do you and your wife have?

>> Um, so I have $100,000 for the down and

then we have about $250,000 in the markets right now. >> Okay. Why don't you c Why do you have to borrow money from your dad? Take your money out if you're going to do the deal. I wouldn't do the deal, but don't don't borrow money from your dad. You have $350,000.

>> Okay, got it. And I I don't know. I guess my thought is if I could keep it in the markets and make 10%. Whereas I could pay my dad back uh 10% on the money that he loans the company.

>> I mean, you're needing the stars to align with this. You need eight tenants who pay on time with no risk there. You need to pay dad back. You need to make money in the markets. There are so many variables here that could go wrong. And >> if all this just tanks, you're screwed, >> right? If the market tanks, you're screwed. >> Yeah. >> You can't find renters, you're screwed. If the market goes down, >> as Dave always says, if if Trump burps and the market, you know, goes down.

>> He was like, "We're going to invade Greenland, the stock market got spooked." >> That's right. Yeah. And so you just don't know. >> I mean, yeah. >> But here here's the parameters that are under house, Matthew. Yeah. The underlying principles are we never recommend you buy investment property until your primary home is paid off.

Number two, we never recommend you borrow to invest in a rental property.

Always recommend paying cash. And number three, we always tell people never borrow money from family.

>> And so there's a lot of principles here that are being violated all for the sake of a quote unquote good opportunity.

>> And can I I'm going to say this, Matthew, and I don't want it to be rude, but you guys had one single residential

investment property. Correct. you and your wife. >> That is correct. >> And you tell this lady that you're you're you're real estate investors.

Um which I guess technically you are.

You have one investment property. And I think she saw ding ding ding. Here's my ticket out. I got to get out of this horrible situation I'm in cuz my husband's sick.

And again, I don't think it's like ill will on her end. I just think she thought, "Oh my gosh, here's a guy who's probably doing all these like deals that you see on TikTok and he's he's got eight VBOs and here, you know what I mean? And he'll do it. I bet I bet I bet I could offer him this and we'll we'll structure the loan where it works for him so I can get out of here." That's what she saw.

I mean, honestly, she didn't list it.

to some, you know, um, investment firm that has, you know, 18 different investors around the country that go and buy property. You know what I Like, no, no, no. She found you and your wife and you thought you hit the hit a great deal and you hit a horrible deal. Not good.

Not good. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you.

I appreciate the advice. I really do. >> Not what you wanted to hear. I know.

But >> sorry, Matthew. So, listen. What you and your wife did though with I would pay off your house, but but I I'm all about I think I think having investment properties is amazing. My husband and I do.

My I mean I think it's I think it is great. You just have to start slow. Like the first one Winston and I got this was gosh probably 10 years ago. It was a short sale condo in this like kind of like sketchy part of Nashville, but it's what we did.

But we got a deal. We saved up, you know, we we bought it for really not a lot. Had to go do a a lot of work in it.

years later when Nashville was on and it was amazing. I was like this is great, right? Like you have to start slow.

Start small. Don't start with a millionoll 8 unit property cuz you're about to take on all those people. Like that's going to be a huge headache. Like get some things under your belt. Start small and then start to work your way up, which is not as flashy, not as exciting, but it is it is peace. That is

a peaceful way to do this and not create chaos cuz you guys are setting yourself up from chaos and maybe to ruin a relationship with your dad if this goes bad, too. I've rarely seen it where they go, "Yeah, I borrowed money from dad. It worked out perfectly. Paid him back and he was happy.

I was happy." >> Usually it becomes, "Well, dad wants a piece of the pie now. He wants his money back cuz he needs to retire, >> which means I need to sell the property. Oh, and he wants appreciation and so he wants that too on top of his 100,000 on top of interest." And it just always ruins >> Yeah.

There's just a there's a lot a lot of things. So, I would I would hold off and just go slow and >> and it's not exciting. It's not exciting, but it's worth it. >> What is the 250 invested for? What is that earmarked for?

>> Um, what do you what exactly do you mean by like what am I saving that for?

>> Yeah, you said you had 250,000 in the markets. I'm guessing that's non a retirement just in a brokerage account.

>> Uh, yeah. So, it's a mix of uh IRA and

then uh just a personal brokerage account and that's just uh saving for retirement is kind of uh what I've been doing and kind of learning to trade it on my own and with the help from a financial investor and stuff. So, >> okay. >> I was going to say if you have liquid money that is really earmarked for nothing and you want to take it and throw it at the house, the non-retirement portion, you could do that and speed up the process, free up a mortgage payment and then you can stack cash fast. >> And you guys are amazing savers.

So then, yeah, stack up some cash and get 300 grand here, you know, like save that over the next five years or whatever your income is and then go buy a rental property with cash and that's it. You know what I mean? Like you can you can do this slow walk in it, but do it in the right order. Pay off the house.

Uh if you have the money, I would pay off your primary home. And >> the key is stay away from this is reducing risk. And right now we're just adding more and more and more risk. and your first real investment property to be a $900,000 8 unit just feels like we're biting off a lot here >> for the purposes of helping this woman move right >> with her ailing husband.

>> Yeah. I mean, eight different families, eight different situation. I mean, that's a part-time job right there of what you just signed up for as a landlord. So, there's not passive income.

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We are headed to Detroit next to talk to Caitlyn. What's going on, Caitlyn?

>> Hi. How are you guys? I grew up listening to you guys. So, it's amazing I'm here. >> That's fantastic. How old are you now?

You grew up I mean, this is a long time.

>> Yeah. My dad used to have you guys on the radio. I used to do the um you know,

putting every dollar in the individual envelope, >> but I'm 24.

>> So, nice. Fantastic. >> So, great. Well, thanks for calling in.

>> Yeah, of course. So, my question is, I just graduated with my masters. It took me 5 years and I um ended up getting uh

most of it covered with with um volleyball scholarships, but now I have

$50,000 in student loans. And I ended up

getting a job out of college that pays 50,000, which obviously is a lot less.

It's I mean it's more like three grand every month. So, I'm just calling in to kind of see how I should attack that and what I should be doing, you know, in the future to kind of get these loans paid off as soon as possible.

>> Yeah, it's a great question, Caitlyn. Are you living at home or where are you?

What's your living situation?

>> Yeah. So, my living situation, I pay 1,251 for my rent. >> Okay. >> And it doesn't include an utilities. I I just moved in, so I don't know exactly how much my utilities are going to be, but I have it kind of conservative at like, you know, um like a 150 hopefully.

>> Yes. And you said you're bringing home 3,000.

>> Yes, 3,000 every month.

>> 3,000. Do you see your income going up?

I know you just started. Um but I'm just thinking, you know, your your rent is close to 50% of your take-home pay, so it's eating up a lot of your income. So, just to be able to pay these loans off faster, I would want your income up. So, from either either if it's from your primary job, um or you're probably gonna be taking a second job, Caitlyn, I hate to say it. Um but but right now in life,

that's what I would do. And I I whether you're waiting tables or doing whatever you can at night after your job. Um a

few nights a week can make a big difference. >> Yeah. That could be a thousand bucks a month. You can just throw all of that at your student loans.

>> 100%. Yeah. And that's kind of been where I' because I'm very obviously I went to a business school. I'm very like entrepreneur like um kind of minded. But

it's a little hard right now because I feel like I'm just, you know, looking at a million different things to do. And I

I I'm trying to like center myself on what should I actually be focusing on to potentially, you know, start a brand or, you know, bring in some extra cash or something like that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, your focus right now is just solely knocking out that debt because getting rid of that will give you the flexibility to actually pursue those things and not be a hindrance cuz right now you need that financial foundation of no debt and an emergency fund. Then we can start building toward this business. So, what did you get your masters in?

>> So, I got my masters, it was an MBA, so just in business administration.

>> Okay. And what are you doing right now for work? What kind of work is it?

>> Finance. >> Okay. So, there's probably a lot of room for growth.

>> Yes. >> In the finance world. >> And I'm hoping that NBA pays off, right?

That that that it puts you more marketable. I mean, seriously, though, because some people are getting jobs out of college at 50 grand without an MBA.

>> Yes. And I definitely understand that.

And I I also hope it does as well. I'm I

got my undergrad in marketing, so it was kind of a big switch to go into finance.

So, I was kind of willing to take a lower paying job in order to kind of get my um you know, foot in the door credits

or whatever up. Yeah. Exactly.

>> Gotcha. Yeah. So, I think um yeah, if there is something that you could start on the side that doesn't cost a lot, that's going to bring in more than waiting tables or, you know, delivering you know, food or whatever the whatever the side gig is that you are going to have. If you find a way to make more doing something else, that's great.

we actually do find that you tend to make more in your skill set like if you have a specific skill. Um you know even if it's like helping coach volleyball or not coach but even uh like do personalized um sessions like with girls at the local high school like parents will pay big bucks you know when it comes to sports.

Um, but yeah, I would be getting an extra job or two and I would try to bring in I mean, if you could cut this in half, like right because if it was $1,000 a month that went towards this debt, that's 50 months.

>> That's over four years. >> And we want that cut in half. Like could you bring in two grand a month, right?

Extra beyond your job. Um, and if your primary job, you know, you get a raise maybe in six months or a year, like that extra raise goes straight to pay this debt off. like everything is so tunnel visioned towards paying off this debt cuz just like George said, when you don't have the when you don't have debt and then you have some savings in the bank, that's going to give you so much flexibility in what you get to do in life. I mean, the options and the freedom you have.

>> Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.

>> Do you have any other debt outside of the student loans?

>> Uh, I don't. I only have Well, I do. I have 2,000 for a medical thing that just happened, but I'm kind of waiting right now on the insurance to see if that's going to be covered, but that's about it. >> Okay. No car loan, no credit card debt.

>> Oh, I have I'm leasing a car, but

>> Kaitlin, I thought you said you've been listening. >> Guy, you grew up with us. Caitlyn, >> you should know. >> How many times have you heard Dave say it's the most oper most expensive way to operate a vehicle?

>> I know. >> And he calls it a fleece. It even has its own nickname. >> Yes. >> What car is this? Tell me exactly the make, model, and year of this vehicle.

>> So, it's a Chevy um it's a Chevy LT

2025. And the reason why I leased it was because I was I had my car paid off and everything. And then it completely broke down and it wasn't fixable. It was very old. So, I was kind of in between work at that time and I you know, all my friends were on spring break. I didn't have anybody to take me. There was no Ubers. So, I had to make a very, you know, um, quick call. And that, in my

opinion, felt like the best thing to do because I didn't have any money saved for another car. Um, and Ubers were I mean, like I said, we didn't have Ubers where I was going to school. So, that's like I know I talked to the dealer about potentially, you know, getting um

>> There's no getting out of a lease. I mean, you're going to find someone to take it over or have the full amount in order to buy it out, >> which payment is only it's $400. So, it's it's not good, but it's not, you know, >> that's a lot of money out of your 3,000 take-home pay. I mean, what's the >> And you don't get and you don't get to keep the car at the end, you know.

>> Yeah, that's so No, but this is a good this is a good lesson, Caitlyn, because I want you Well, I I I want you to know

that it wasn't a great decision. Like, do you look at it now and you're like, "Oh man, I probably like if anything, I could have taken a $5,000 loan out from the bank and at least gotten a $5,000 car and paid that off soon, right?" Like, there's there are and again, we wouldn't have endorsed that, but there are other things that you could have done in the situation. And when you get painted, this is true for anyone, into a corner and you feel like this is my only option, that's usually when we make really bad financial decisions.

And some people do that with a car situation, some people do that with a house.

for you to start thinking of like okay I'm not going to be pinned in a corner I'm going to think about options A B C and D and I'm going to look at Okay, here are all my options. It's a bad option, good option, uncomfortable option. Oh, this is a really easy option

in the moment. Probably not great long term. You know, you look at all the benefits. But when you have multiple options in life and you force yourself to have multiple options because there are there always are.

Uh you make better decisions. So, just remember that going forward, Caitlyn, if I was 24, I wish someone had told me that because sometimes I don't make great ones. >> Yeah. >> No, thank you.

That's so nice. Thank you. These are expensive lessons to learn now, but I'm telling you at 24, if you figure this stuff out and you knock out this debt fast, from 26 or 27 onward, you are going to build so much wealth and have the ability to be an entrepreneur. But the problem with entrepreneurs is their risk meter tends to be broken.

And so they're willing to take quote unquote risks for a quote unquote opportunities, which usually means leveraging a whole bunch of debt, hoping it all works out. And unfortunately, we take the calls from the entrepreneurs who say, "My business failed and apparently they still want me to pay back these SBA loans." >> I know >> they don't just forgive them just because the business failed. And so, doing it with less risk is always going to give you the the best ability to survive.

Just steer all that energy in the right direction financially, and you're going to do incredible. But you got to rein that in and keep listening to us and actually >> listen this time. But yeah, >> don't just hear us. Listen, >> you're awesome. Thanks for calling.

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Austin joins us up next in Knoxville.

What's going on Austin?

>> Hey Rachel and George. How are you today? >> Doing great. What's going on with you?

>> Good. >> Living the dream of course.

>> Love to hear it. >> Um so my wife and I um we started the

the Ramsay plan a few years back. Um and just started chipping away at it. um kind of dive into that deficit and we you know we've since had a family um we we we chipped away at it and snowballed our debt and got to baby step number five. And so with the three kids,

they're getting to the point where we're getting a little nervous um because we don't have anything for them saved dedicated just to them. So we were looking at different ways to get the ball rolling. And once you kind of get into that and open those doors, there's a lot of different options. um looking at ESAs, looking at 529s, looking at, you know, Roth IAS, and then even within those, there's different layers for each one of those buckets.

And there's a lot of variables in the equation. So, and everybody has obviously the unsolicited advice because we have three daughters. So, once they see, oh, you you better start saving for college or for weddings and all this stuff.

the fear is, you know, we want to do something, but we don't want to make a decision now that our girls might pay for later on, right? So, um we want to

Um, 9, seven, and five.

>> Okay, nice. >> So, we've got a decent timeline here until college, adulthood, weddings, and so the A1 is college and maybe a car if you're going to help with that. And so, there's a few ways you can invest. I love the 529 plans are a great option for college saving, ESA also, but there's more limitations to that as far as your contributions.

And then you can invest outside of that. And so, you can do that in a brokerage account in your name. That's personally how I like it because you retain control. What scares me about some of these investment accounts for kids is they get control no matter what when they turn, you know, 18 in most states.

And so you give a kid compound growth, it's hundred something thousand. If I'm 18, I'm going to blow that. >> You're like, hey, this is this should be for a down payment for your future home or your wedding and they're like, I'm going to >> I'm buying a Lamborghini, >> right? >> Your girls will probably never do that, Austin.

But to George's point, it's it is Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right.

Uh there is less control when it comes to that. Um, and at 18, yeah, that's a lot to give depending on, you know, how much you have saved. So, yeah. So, the 529 is a great starting point for the for the college fund.

That's what we're that's what my husband and I are doing. Our kids are very similar ages. They're 8, 10, and five or six now. Gosh, eight 10.

>> Time flies. >> Um, so yeah, we do five we have 529s for for each of them.

Um, I think it's even just like a an index fund honestly that we just throw money in each month that we kind of save and it's kind of earmarked kind of for them in the future. So, whatever that looks like um to be able to help them, you know, and and what they need um weddings and yeah, I mean all all that kind of stuff that just gets so expensive and depending on when it hits, you know, it could all be at once too. You never know. So, um so that's kind of what we look at >> on it the the options with the 529.

I know there's a custodial option, right, where we have more control as the parents. um versus them. At the same time, if they don't go into uh secondary education, they want to do something else or they get, you know, full rights to whatever. Um I know there's options there for that money, but if you make, you know, the unqualified withdrawal, we're paying a penalty.

Um there's just there's a disadvantages when we start to look at it on >> Yes, there can be. So, the good thing is it grows taxree, which is great. And then if you get a scholarship and grant, you can actually pull money out with these with >> you pull it against the scholarship.

And on top of that, with the new Secure Act 2.0, you can roll over up to 35 grand into a Roth IRA for them. And so,

there are more options. And I'd rather you have the money and not need it than not have it. And now they're turning to student loans and parent plus loans.

>> Sure, >> that's the reality for most people. They go, "Well, I don't want to invest because what if we don't use it?" And then they don't do anything. And so if I'm you, I'm going to open a 529 plan for each kid and then open a brokerage account in my name like Rachel said and just put money in there and that becomes the future gift money, wedding money, whatever. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Once they've earned income, >> they have earned income then you can open up a Roth IRA in that. Yes. In their name. And um and what's wild is my

Roth, which I I'm trying to think when mom and dad opened that for me. I think I was probably 15. It's when I started working at >> I thought you'd be like four years old. They're like, "Well, Rachel's off." >> No, no, no, no, no.

They they did it the right the legal way. I really did go earn an income. But they um and I think they even helped fund it. I mean, honestly, like because it wasn't a lot of money.

Um but they >> as long as you earn that level, they can fund it.

Yes. Exactly. In it. Um, so yeah, it wasn't a ton and yeah, it was definitely not even seven grand, but what's crazy is starting that at 15 versus my husband started one after we got married and just, you know, just a 10-year period, like the difference in the compound interest. It's pretty wild. So, you could do that later, too, for the girls.

Um, as you're thinking about this, I have a feeling you're going to have a lot of options, but yeah, but you're not a big fan of the ATMA, right, George?

>> No, I just don't like the idea that the kids are going to have control at 18, cuz I just don't know what they're going to turn into. I hope they're wonderful, sweet children and they're gonna be like, "We want to give it to the old folks home, but there's a chance stay below it prodigal son styled." So, I like retaining control personally. So, I would do both 529 plan and the brokerage account really hedges your bets. And it's okay to not be fair.

You know what I mean?

>> Mhm. >> So, it's okay. It's more of a lump sum to start versus a higher percentage or both. >> If you have the money, I mean, if you've got 10 grand just sitting burning a hole in your pocket, you can frontload that 529.

>> And what's wild too, Austin, is you, we did this with our um our smart vest pro, they can do a map. It's not 100% because we don't know the future, but they can look at the rate of which tuition has increased >> and how much money you have in to see and say, okay, you know, are you overfunding it? Are you not? I mean, they can kind of help you balance.

And even Austin, if you guys wanted to underfund it some, right? And you didn't you knew like, okay, we may only have, I don't know, 30 grand in it per kid or whatever.

But to George's point, you have to invest somewhere else the difference just in case they do go to school. But if you're scared they're not going to use it or whatnot, um, you could underfund it a little bit and invest somewhere else and use that money >> and just be prepared to help cash flow.

That's right. You have to go to cash flow or they're working part-time to help pay. They're also working on scholarships and grants. So, it's a great problem to have if all of your kids get full rides and the money sits there and you can change the beneficiary at any time.

>> That's it, too. It can be passed down. So, your girls could even keep that 529 and give it to their girl, right? Their kids crazy about it is like you it can stay in.

>> It grows in perpetuity. >> Yeah. There was one call we took, what was that last week, George, about the the dad. Um, it was a it was a man.

He was like 40 and he had a call. I don't know. It was a call still. It was something like that.

and he ended up saying, "I don't want to cash it out. I'm going to keep it >> for like a generational endowment basically." >> And he did the math and it would pay for like 10 kids collegees like the next generation down because of the growth like which is just wild.

>> Awesome. Like you said lot a lot of options there and that's where it was kind of like a little overwhelming for us. So we wanted to kind of throw out a lifeline to see if anybody had any good >> uh that I keep it simple. I hope we help narrow down your focus to those two things.

One for college, one for non- college. >> And then I throw in the Roth once they start working. That'll be later down the road. >> Get them working.

That 9year-old's uh, you know, might be coming up. These kids these days, they're always doing side hustles. >> Yeah. Taxes on them.

>> They're going to become, you know, worldrenowned YouTubers by 11 years old.

>> My gosh, that's true. >> That's what everyone's fear is. They're like, everyone's going to just be like influencers and YouTubers. No one's going to go to college.

>> So much money. So, it's a real fear cuz I do think college is due for a reckoning where families are waking up going, why would I go to school unless you need to unless you're becoming a, you know, a lawyer, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher, things that require that degree. >> Yeah. >> Otherwise, don't just go to burn some time.

>> I know. >> As much as Rachel loved her college experience. >> No, I did. I know.

again, I don't know where I sit with this. my kid. I'm I'm not at this age where my kids are having to make these decisions right now, but there is something when you're 18 to still be in a structured type environment if you have the money. Again, I'm not saying like like don't go take out crazy student loans and not know exactly what you're doing.

Yes, you want a game plan, but there's something about those years that you're still in a system >> that helps you kind of like stay on track.

>> I know they're still so young. It's just a very expensive way to do it >> if you're going to go into crippling debt. So, always cash flow. You can go watch Borrowed Future uh for free on our YouTube channel. It's a documentary we did on the student loan crisis and higher education. Worth the watch with your kids.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. The number to call is88255225

if you've got a question or you want to join the conversation. Jason is in Phoenix up next. Jason, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Much appreciated. >> Absolutely. What's going on today?

I uh my family and I are working our way

through the baby steps. Um we're on baby step two, but there's a lot of uncertainty in our life uh revolving around two kind of central areas. One,

uh the employer I work for is kind of cutthroat and the assessments are pretty strenuous each year. I do pretty all right, but you know there's always that uncertainty every year. And then two, I

was diagnosed last year with a chronic disease uh that will progress with time.

And um >> I'm sorry.

>> I uh I am my wife is a stay-at-home mom.

Uh we're a family of five. And uh there's just a lot of uncertainty in our life. So I've been trying to think about things things like the rate at which we pay off debt versus the rate at which we can start some other investments besides retirement um slashstart doing the 529

for our kids. And I just wanted your input on how to juggle the baby steps with those year-by-year uncertainties.

>> Wow. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Is it something where they can sort of give you a timeline of here's how it will progress? You know, is this life-threatening? Like, is it something you can manage? What does that look like?

>> Um, it's a long-term progression. Um,

it's multiple sclerosis.

Um, >> and so it definitely could be slow, but it also could be, >> but you could live a long full life still. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I could. And medicines are really great these this in this day and age for it.

But, um, it's still an uncertainty there and the background sort of stacked on top of the uncertainty with the employer on a year-by-year basis.

>> Well, I probably wouldn't just because

um I think with the the there's no

guarantee that you're going to lose a job. And if you did lose this one, you'd have to replace it anyways, right? I mean, so there would have to be um you know, income coming in. And so how much

how much debt do you guys have and how much do you make a year?

Uh I make about 170 a year and uh we got

about um 80 grand in student loans.

Okay. >> Um to pay off and then a 266 mortgage.

>> Okay. Um and how long have you been with

the company?

>> Uh almost three years now.

>> Okay. And is it >> And the other thing is that >> Go ahead. >> The other thing is that the company has great health insurance, like one of the best in the country. So, my medicines are incredibly expensive and losing the company would mean losing co-ay assistance and stuff like that.

>> You'd be paying like hundreds and hundreds a month out of pocket just for the medicine. >> Is there something obvious in the assessment coming up, Jason, that you think um that you really could be terminated or is it just this kind of like lingering fear of like, uh, >> it's a ling it's a lingering fear. Um,

>> I uh it's kind of subjective every year based on your supervisor. Uh, my supervisor likes me, but I don't think he assesses me of the highest quality as say the previous supervisor I did. It's just sort of a personal bias.

>> Okay. >> Um, and so I I I don't think I have any

issues to worry about really right now.

But >> yeah, when is the assessment?

>> Um, it comes up Well, it's conducted in

April and May and then I find out the results in July. In July, I find out the results. >> Okay, gotcha. Yeah.

to you know cutting the lifestyle which I'm sure you've done cuz I think you guys have been working on baby step two um you know cutting everything down what cuz you're making a you make a great income and I'm just wondering if you can get this thing paid off. You know, if you guys lived on 80, could you pay this off in a year?

>> Yeah, I was trying to run the math on that. Um I think the most we can squeeze

out of it if you just said like the

groceries, mortgage, and basic bills. Um

I think the most I could squeeze out would be about four about 4K a month.

Uh, okay.

>> Our groceries are bill is a little high.

Well, especially with my diagnosis, I have to eat a pretty good Mediterranean diet. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I can't just live on rice and beans. U because diet is a big issue with the progression of this disease, too. They've learned. >> Okay. >> So, um, >> so this might take a little longer. A year and a half is what we're talking >> for you to knock out the student loans.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like year and a halfish kind of time frame.

>> Do you guys have any savings right now?

Uh, I mean besides retirement, yeah, I got about seven grand, but I also have some potential lawyer fees coming up dealing with my dad's probate. I'm sort of saving that for just in case.

>> Okay. Yeah. And I'm okay with you having a little bit. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, man.

Y'all had a rough go.

>> Um, yeah. I would just make it an aggressive goal to get that paid off >> and then to get that emergency fund and then you'll be jumping right back into retirement and kids college. You know, I think a two-year difference isn't going to be massive. I think you guys will be you'll be fine.

Um, and then if something switches with the job or if something does happen in July, that's when I would pause everything, stop paying aggressively on the debt, see if you can find, you know, something new, obviously, because you're going to have to, you know, support your family in some way.

>> No, I was actually in the process of getting term life insurance. And, uh,

thank you so much for asking me this. This is another point. I was in the process of getting term life insurance

uh when the diagnosis came through. So, I was denied. >> Uh but I do I >> But these are two different things. So, you've got long-term disability, which is you had you've not passed away, you just are unable to work and you're still alive.

Do you have that in place through your employer or does they do they offer that? >> No. No, I don't think they offer the disability one. um they do have a life insurance and then I also picked up accidental death because I have to wait 5 years after my diagnosis to circle back around to try to get term life again.

Okay.

>> So, um but no, I I've been thinking a lot about the long-term disability insurance after listening to you guys.

And I just asked the guy who I do insurance with the other week if we could look at that. He hasn't been able to get back to me yet. But I like I look at that as almost even more improbable than ever getting regular term life insurance because you're talking about a long-term thing and this is a something that's chronic, right? So, >> I'm not sure I would qualify for that ever anymore.

>> Yeah. I mean, there there are some guaranteed issue policies. They're just more expensive and it's not going to cover a whole lot. The policies are going to be much smaller the face value.

But there's there there are certain things you can do and I would keep pushing to get any coverage you can >> those five kids and your wife >> protect your family. >> But man, this is one of those this is going to be your your why as to why you're going to become debtree even faster as to why you're going to save like a like a madman to make sure that your family's taken care of. And um man, I hope that this is something that you end up managing and you live a long life

and your family's taken care of and those kids go to college debtree. Um, I'm praying that for you.

>> I appreciate that a lot.

>> Wish me the best on this journey, man. >> You're amazing dad, Jason. >> The fact you're even thinking about this right now in >> the stage that you're in and what what's going on is impressive. So, keep fighting the fight, man. We're rooting for you.

All

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Today's question comes from Natalie in Wyoming. My husband and I do not agree on where money should be saved. I was putting money into a savings account until we got married last year. I have around five months of expenses in that account.

My husband says it's losing value due to inflation and thinks that any money we save should go into gold or crypto. While I understand his logic to to a point, I do feel uncomfortable with it, especially the crypto. My logic is if an emergency happens, we have immediate access to it. I appreciate that he wants to invest for our future and protect our wealth.

>> Oh boy, this is way beyond just where should we put our savings? This is a fundamental disagreement on what is an investment. >> That's true. That's so true. >> Let's separate it. All right. Let's talk about the emergency fund first. Your emergency fund should be liquid and accessible in a savings account and ideally a high yield savings account which helps you at least keep up with inflation. >> Yeah. So, he was right to that point. I agree. Yes. >> You don't want it just sitting in checking or a normal savings account making 0% interest.

>> Yes. So, yeah, I'm right. Yes, he's correct. But then you are also correct that this is savings. This is not an investment. We see this as insurance. So your emergency fund is like insurance.

It's there when you need it. And so to your point that if something comes up, you have to be able to get to it. So yes, you are exactly right. When you put it in something that you can't get to, >> I mean, golly, god forbid, crypto or gold that you're going to have to sell, let alone even just the market, right?

It takes a little bit to get the money out and all of it. So there's something about the ease of that emergency fund being there. But then also we want to invest which is a different category >> that is completely different and clearly he's he's been online too much if he's going we got to put all our money in gold in crypto the US dollar is going to crash or maybe the stock market did you

know 23% last year and everything's actually just fine and so I'm not going to trust the fear-mongerers telling you to put all your money in gold or crypto if you want to use some fun money and he wants to do that on the side that's fine but you need to be investing 15% of your income into legitimate tax advantage age retirement accounts in mutual funds. If you have that as a foundation, a fully funded emergency fund, you're investing 15%.

So, I think we're having very different discussions here and we need to just be clear on what this money is for and where we're going to store it safely.

>> Good question. >> And if you want a great uh high yield savings account, our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union have a really great smart bundle you can check out.

Just go to fairwinds.org/ramsey / Ramsey and you can get their high yield savings account along with their no fee checking and the Ramsay Bee debit card.

Fantastic. Great question. All right, Marissa is in Philadelphia up next. Is it Marissa or Marissa?

>> Uh, it's Marissa. >> Great. Nailed it. First try. What's going on? Um, so my question is, should I slow uh

my family down on baby step two uh to

start putting money towards life insurance for my husband who does work a

high-risisk job um and or for both of us.

>> I have context like that.

>> Yeah. How much debt do you guys have?

Um so our mortgage is just under uh 500

and then we have about uh 44 in school

loans and then we are at about 90 in

other like personal credit.

>> Okay. And when you say you know putting money towards life insurance what have you looked into and what has been the the cost? So, my husband's uh employer

does offer um life insurance, but it's

not nearly enough to, you know, keep me and my uh my current child and future

child who's expected in about two weeks uh a >> congratulations. >> Thank you. Um so, that that's not nearly enough to cover our our debt and to keep me afloat if something happens to him.

>> Yeah. Um I've kind of noodled with um

the the Xander like kind of not really committing to anything just estimates.

>> Um for my husband we're looking at about

uh 70 to 100 a month to take out enough

to cover our 10 month our is it 10 months or 10 years of expenses.

>> Okay. Um >> 10 times your income.

>> Yeah. 10 times the income >> on like a 15 or 20 year term policy.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, and then for me, um, we're

looking at 30 to 50 a month. So, I'm looking at like 150 to, you know, almost 200 a month. Yeah.

>> Um, and like where I'm still working on getting us out of being in the red every month with budgeting and baby step two.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, life insurance is something I would get. So, I would figure out where where else we can cut in order to make this happen. What's your income? What are you guys bringing in? Um, so together we bring in um about

base 200 a year. He is paid hourly and

it's kind of tricky to like guess. Um,

but he makes about almost double what I bring home. And um, my husband travels for work and I am I work from home but I'm like the stay-at-home >> parent. So like I do all of the the house making. I deal with our our kids.

It's a lot. >> Um, >> how are y'all in the red though, Marissa? Making 200 a year.

Uh we have debt that we have uh we so

we've been married a few years um but we are just kind of getting around to like actually financing not financing uh

consolidating our money. Um but uh

honestly we just weren't budgeting.

Yeah. We just weren't budgeting and we've decided that we can't keep living like this. So >> good. Well good for y'all. It's kind of your we call it your I've had it moment that you've had that you're like we yeah we make 200. What are we doing? Why do we feel broke? Uh, how do we not have enough? So, I love that. Do you guys have the Every Dollar app?

>> Um, we've looked at it. Um, but we are

we've not I've not taken the step to actually set it up yet. >> Okay. We're going to give that uh to you for a year. That's our gift to you guys as a It's a It's a little bit of a a baby a baby gift, we'll say.

>> Yeah, I like that. A push a push present. That's what they call it these days. >> That's right. Yeah. The Every Dollar app is your I hope you get a better push present. I think if you do this budget together, you're going to go, "Oh my gosh, we're bringing in, you know, $10,000 a month, $12,000 a month. Where

is it all >> 2,000 at restaurants?" You know what I mean? Or whatever. Like, it's just crazy what you can spend when you're not watching. Like, so I think you will tighten up that lifestyle. It's going to be a big change for you guys is to live on nothing. You're going to live on nothing. Like, try to make a budget where you're, you know, an $70,000 income, right? And then everything else,

130 goes to this debt and gets it cleaned up, which you don't even need that much. I mean, yeah, you guys will be out so soon. You really will. You have such a great >> You got what, 134,000 in consumer debt?

>> Um >> 90 plus the 44.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there anything you can sell in there? Are there cars involved?

>> Um, we we both have cars that are paid off, actually. That's one thing we don't have. >> Wow. What makes up the 90 in personal credit? Um we have so we financed some um home

improvement things. Uh that's about uh

10. Um we have about 20 in personal

credit card and then there not to jump down a rabbit hole. There's a work credit card that has racked up debt that we're trying to fix >> that we are on the hook for unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> And then it's 44 in school uh student loans. Oh, is that 44 part of the 90 >> or is that on top of >> is it on top of >> Oh, okay. >> So, it is it is 130. So, you're right, George.

I mean, so yeah, if you guys could live on 70, >> you know, and throw everything at this debt like, you know, you guys can make some money, >> which means we are not doing any investing right now. We are making sure we're not getting big tax refunds. We are not eating out and obviously not going on vacation with a newborn. You know, >> we're not shopping.

We're not going into Target. We're doing nothing. nothing but to get this debt paid off. And again, at Mercy, I really think you guys will will see some big progress.

You know, I will um give you this though. We call it STORC mode.

as much cash until you and baby are home and everything's good. So, if you guys want to start I we're going to give you every dollar. So, I want you guys to make a budget tonight so that you guys can get ready for February and start acting like, hey, we're going to we're going to live on a tight budget this month. But instead of that money going to debt, I would just put it in a savings account for now um until you're

good. And then once you have once you come home and baby's good and you're good, take whatever has been in that savings for the the next two months, which again I'm hoping is like four, you know, eight grand or something, throw it at the debt once that happens. So um >> and do not sit on the fence with this life insurance. Get it done today. I know it's 150 bucks a month, but you need it. It's a non-negotiable in the baby steps. xander.com or you can call 8003564282.

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up next. Jade, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Thank you. >> What's your question today?

>> Okay, so my husband and I are newly wides. We've been married about a year and we have like a huge budget we've combined. I'm afraid we overextended

when we purchased our house when we got married. Um, but I'm just trying to figure out how to combine our multiple

retirement accounts that are kind of spread all over.

>> How old are you? >> I want some. Okay. Um, I'm 48 and he's

55. >> Okay. >> And I think our 30-year mortgage will have some working till he's 85, unless we do something really smart. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. I hope we do something about that. No need to keep it around for 30 years.

>> And so, what you're talking about retirement accounts specifically?

>> Yeah. And we also have a lump sum of 70,000 coming in soon. So I feel like I

have four options with that 70,000 and I want to be really smart with that.

>> Okay. What's your household income?

>> Uh so we gross about 200,000 and I feel

like we bring home about 130 of that.

>> Great. So about 10k a month, a little over that. And do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage?

Uh just one car for 40,000. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And do you have any savings right now?

Anything cash liquid?

>> Yeah, we have 6,500 in an HSA account

for medical expenses and about 15,000

set aside for our emergency fund.

>> Okay. So, we'll have 70 coming in plus the 15. >> When does the 70 come in, Jade? Did you say? Um, I think 50 will come in in about two months and 30 will come in or 720ish will come in in about four months from now. >> Okay. So, you'll have everything um by April, April, May.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Cool. And have you guys actually combined your finances as far as a checking account goes? How are you handling that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's give you the game plan and we'll talk about the retirement portion. So, in the baby steps, currently you guys are in baby step two, which means we're knocking out all consumer debt. So, right now for you, that'd be the $40,000 car loan. And the good news is that 50 grand is going to knock out that loan instantly.

>> Okay. And that was my one of my first option choices is take that and put it there. >> I know there's more fun things you probably wanted to do with that, but that is the the right thing to do because it frees up a giant payment.

What's the car payment?

>> Uh$8.25. >> Woo. You just got a raise. >> Great. Great. Great. Great.

So that leaves you, you got 85 total coming your way. 40 goes to the car.

That leaves you with 45K and a majority of that will be your emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. >> And they have 15,000 already of that.

>> Yeah. And so you're going to be golden.

You'll be through baby step three by the time all this money comes in, which gets you to the point where you guys are investing 15% of that awesome $200,000

income. That's 30 grand a year you'll be putting into retirement accounts going forward.

tracking. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Yes. >> Now, when it comes to retirement accounts, you were talking about combining. Those retirement accounts will remain in your own name, separate.

>> I mean, like I have Percy from a state

job and then he has a bunch in like crypto and then I have a bunch in one from like two prior jobs. I have some in Fidelity, some in Prior Job, and some in

um yeah, Vanguard, some in

America, and some like So, >> okay. So, it's just there's there's funds all over the place, and you're just trying to simplify your life.

>> Yes. So, we have 10 different retirement

places where money is being held. So, I'm like, >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot.

>> Yeah. I if I'm in your shoes, I would be contacting a Smart Ver Pro and saying, "Hey, help us simplify." Now, every account that's in your name is going to stay in your name. that when it comes to retirement and same for him. But what you can do is then kind of pull the money into one place for like, hey, I want to put it all in fidelity. Well, they can help you kind of roll all of that over the things that make sense to roll over.

>> Okay. When we talk about being balanced now, he pretty much went 100% crypto and

I went 100% ETFs.

>> Oh boy. >> Um, so do is like is that balance? That's what he thinks is balanced is yay, we're like 50/50 almost of crypto to >> like as long as one of us has our head on our shoulders, we'll be good.

>> Yeah. No, his his risk meter is is broken if he's putting a 100% of his investing in crypto. >> Yeah, I would not be doing that. >> He's he's gambling.

That's pure speculation. And again, I'm not mad at crypto. If you love crypto, put some fun money in there. But you guys need to be investing 15% of your income into tax advantage retirement accounts with things with a proven track record like mutual funds, ETFs.

That's fine if you want to do that. But putting it all in crypto is not balanced at all.

>> okay, that's a different battle. >> He had about 300,000. Would you say

about 15% of that is like the crypto

play? You're saying he has 300,000 in crypto?

>> No, but if you had 300,000 total

>> in investments, how much is it okay to have in cryp? I mean, we we generally say don't have more than about 5% of your world tied up in in those things that are more speculative, >> right? >> So, it depends on your net worth. You know, >> 10 grand in crypto for someone might be a whole lot and for someone else it might be, you know, chump change for compared to their net worth. So, it's all about ratios there. But I think you guys have an alignment issue more than a financial issue.

>> What does he say, Jade, when you kind of bring up that? Because I mean, does the crypto make you nervous?

>> It makes me really nervous, but he thinks that it'll make him be able to retire a millionaire. So, >> what if I told you he can still retire a millionaire and not even touch crypto?

>> Cuz what's really happening is he wants to shortcut it, >> which I mean, he's 55. He's no, you know, >> no spry chicken here, but there's still a level of I want to get there faster and therefore I'm willing to take shortcuts and potentially try the get-rich quick route.

>> So, >> yeah, and it may not be a battle you win. I don't know, Jade. I don't know what your tolerance is for um Yep. for

that kind of risk, but if I were you, um >> I just wouldn't count on that money being there in retirement. Exactly. You have to play that game. >> Yes. So, so I would for your sake just say, "Okay, well, if you like if he's

just like gung-ho and he's not moving anything, it's not very loving to you." I would say number one. Um, but number

two, making sure that yes, what income that you, you know, the 15% you put in uh to the ETFs or whatever it is. Um, run there's um a calculator on ramseyolutions.com and you can run some numbers and just look at those and see how that makes you feel, right? and and you may be, you know, moving up in your job too and doing incredible and you're like, "It's great. We'll have $4 million for just my stuff." I mean, I don't I'm making up numbers, but you know, you that you'll be great.

You'll be fine.

you know, crashes out and who know who knows what's going to happen with crypto. That's what's hard about it is that there's no long-term track record that we can look back and see what's been proven with it. And so >> again, I'm not mad that he has some in it, but I wouldn't I think we're I think he is not diversified at all. I mean, that's like the >> not even the definition of diversification.

And most financial planners would tend to agree, which obviously they're in the market.

still, it's >> it might take a third party like that.

Knowing this helps with knowing that with the 30k left after paying off the new car that we probably shouldn't put

any more of that in crypto.

>> No, I would not.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Going forward, I would do that.

That 30k of your 200k, that 15% should be going into actual retirement accounts into mutual funds.

>> So, that would be the game plan.

>> Perfect. The next question I had though and where I wanted to like a big thing is we did buy um a $640,000 home. Uh the

average home price in our market is about 550. There's not very you know. So

if we were >> what percentage of your mortgage what percentage of your mortgage, Jade, is going to um Oh, sorry. What what

percentage of your mortgage is from your um income each month?

Um our >> how much is your mortgage payment? >> Payment is is 4,000. We'll just refinance um to from 7.2% interest to

5.875. >> So it's high. But if you guys can keep up with that income, you'll be okay. But I would not let that mortgage sit around for 30 years while he continues to accumulate crypto. And that is my fear is he will be 85 going why would I put down on the mortgage? I can keep investing in crypto. It's going to be a hard conversation.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

Our scripture of the day, Luke 14:11.

For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. CS Lewis

said, "Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less." Poetry right there. That's good.

>> Great quote. >> All right, let's go out to Dave in Denver. What's going on, Dave?

>> Hey guys, thanks for having me. I'm a I'm a loan officer for mortgages. My

question is I often get clients and they they come to me needing a mortgage most often older clients in this situation

and one spouse has passed away. I have

access to their assets or see what they what they have and it's a vulnerable situation and really they don't need a mortgage. What they need to do is sell some of their assets to get a to get a home to downsize. I'm just looking for advice on how to bridge that gap with that and how to properly communicate that to them.

>> So, you see this going to a dangerous place and you're like, "How do I help these people when my job is to lend them the money that they're approved for?" >> Yeah. And it's not overly dangerous sometimes, but like uh you know, they have one spouse maybe have their whole life collecting these assets.

>> Yeah. You you feel like, hey, that's outside the boundaries of my job, but it's like your heart is aching for them to be like, hey, you really need to go do these things.

>> Yeah. So, I'm looking for words of wisdom on how to appropriately navigate that.

>> Well, I think you have the right heart. That's the most important part is is your motive and your spirit and the tone in which you deliver this. Um, but I think just starting with, hey, I want to make sure this house fits your life, not just your approval amount. And as I'm seeing it here, I can see the assets over here. I can see what the mortgage payment's going to be. I think things are going to be tight, unless you make some moves, make some sacrifices here.

And you could offer, hey, one recommendation you could pursue is selling these assets, which could do XYZ.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then it's just, it's not you telling what they have to do. It's just saying, "Hey, I try to I treat people how I want to be treated and I can see all of your information here and this is what I'm seeing." >> Yeah.

And it's kind of a, you know, for them, take it or leave it kind of thing, but it's almost for your conscious, you know, you're like, man, I see this and I just want to say it out loud.

And if they don't take that advice and they do something else, that's okay. That's, you know, they're adults and they can do that. >> At least you're sleeping well at night knowing that you said your peace.

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I'm just trying to figure out how I sprayed the D the Dave Ramsey throughout my entire career. >> Yeah.

Love it. I love it. >> It's hard cuz you like, well, Dave says, but you can't do that. It's not going to work.

And instead, you you sort of get to the root of it. You say, "Hey, the families that I see thrive when it comes to buying a home. They have margin outside of their mortgage payment to live and to save and to have fun and go on vacations." And right now, what I'm seeing with your payment, it's going to be a lot of your income taken up by this payment. And so you can go, hey, here's the approval amount, but here would be a let's run the numbers and see what would be a comfortable amount.

And then you can kind of get to the principles without saying, well, Dave recommends 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. You know, >> they get to choose the wisdom at that point. >> Yeah. Big Dave, I'm little Dave.

That's Big Dave. >> Little Dave. Big Dave. I like it.

That's true. It's all >> You know what, Dave? I mean, honestly, that's it's really it would be so impressive and it would actually um garner a lot of trust, I would think, from the people you're working for because in some situations, I'm assuming, you know, you're asking for them to pay less for a home, you know, and that's money out of your pocket, too, right? If they choose that, >> less loan, less origination fee, less commission, all of it.

>> Yeah. I mean, all of it. So, there's something um I don't know, really trustworthy for you to say because you're not you're not doing it the other way to be like, "Hey, you should spend more here with me so I can make more." In some of these cases, it's it's the opposite. And so, um they shouldn't be offended by that, right?

kindness in you even doing that.

>> Yeah. >> Well, thank you. >> Absolutely. Thanks for actually being uh, you know, serving well and serving your customers well and being one of the good guys in the mortgage world. That's fantastic. Rachel, I've got a friend in the mortgage world and he knowing what I do, he's like, "Dude, you would not believe >> the debt to income ratios people show up with." >> You're like, "This is bonkers." Like, no one should be giving them this loan.

>> And sadly, a lot of the banks, you run it through the computer and it goes, "Yep, give them the loan. >> That's fine. Yep. Yep. We'll just do it." >> And the bank doesn't always care about the reality of your financial situation.

wild cuz that's part of what got us into the biggest housing disaster in '08 is because of that kind of stuff, too.

>> Lending people money shouldn't. I know.

>> Keep on doing it, though. >> Oh my gosh. >> All right, let's go out to Brian in Alaska. Brian, what's up?

>> Hi. Uh, can you hear me? >> Yes. Loud and clear.

>> Okay, sweet. Uh so I am uh in an

interesting situation um where I

actually live in uh my dad's second home or my parents second home here in Alaska uh while my family lives out of state.

Um and I'm curious. I'm I feel like I'm getting a smoking good deal on uh rent here. You know, I just rent a room, but it's way cheaper than I could rent anything else in the area. How long should I stay here um saving up for a house? Um, you know,

how how long should I let this good deal ride as long as they're willing to give it to me? >> Yeah, it's a good question. Uh, how old are you?

>> I'm 28. >> 28. Okay. Are you married?

>> Uh, nope. Single. >> Single. Okay. Any debt? Consumer debt?

>> Uh, I owe $12,000 on an airplane. Um,

but that's in like a leasing company that I own. >> Okay. 12,000 on. And that is that it? No

credit cards or car loans?

>> Nope. >> Okay, great. And how much? >> No credit card. >> And how much do you make a year?

>> Uh last year um so I started a new job last year in 6 months. Uh I made about

55,000. Um and then this year uh for the

for the whole year, um my guess is about 120 to 140. >> Good for you. Okay. And how much money do you have saved?

Um, I currently only have like $3,000

saved. Um, >> how long have you been living in this or your dad's place?

>> Uh, so I've been living here about 3 years. Uh, I actually used to own half of it and then I sold out um my half to

um my stepmom. Um, that paid off a lot of my debt and uh and was able to give

me a down payment for this airplane that I I lease out.

>> Okay. So, this airplane, is this a a business you have where you basically rent out the airplane?

>> Yep. >> Okay. What do you make from that? Is that on top of your 140?

>> Uh, that that's uh completely separate.

So, I make about $40 an hour every time it flies. Um, and right now it's pretty much just all going back into the business for improvements for the for the airplane. Got it. I'm paying the the principal for um I get a loan from a

friend of mine. Um basically zero interest um that uh that I pay the

principal out of my my personal funds and then the what the airplane makes just kind of gets circulated back and then making improvements for the airplane. >> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So yeah, the whole

living, you know, with parents or on their property or whatever, you know, for a period of time, I'm totally fine with it. I think after a while, um, there needs to be a point that you, you know, go and you're on your own and you're living, you know, on your own doing your own thing. So, what worries me is, and I know you just got this job six months ago, you said, so I'm not going to harp on it too much, but you've had a, you know, you said, I'm getting a great deal, all this, but you only got $3,000 saved.

So there's a part of me that's like, you know, if people have this idea, I'm going to go live really cheaply at my parents, but then they don't take what they would have paid in rent or more of what they're saving and actually save it. You know, they end up spending it on restaurants and going on trips and stuff. And so then it ends up being this point of like, okay, you weren't using it actually to benefit yourself or to get you further financially. You were just using it for lifestyle in the moment.

So, if you're doing this, I want you to be really, really disciplined and you make a great income. And so, honestly, Brian, I mean, you're a single guy. You're living in Alaska and basically no rent.

you could live on, I don't know, 40 grand a year or something crazy, like you could bank so much money, >> not only pay off this airplane, >> but >> you could have six figures saved up.

Yes. >> You know, by the end of the year, maybe into a little into >> really quickly. And I would I would use that for a down payment on a home cuz as soon as you can get something in your name building equity, that's the best route for you, Brian. So, I'm okay with it for a little bit, maybe a year or two, but I would be so disciplined in that to actually put that money and that savings towards your future and a future home for yourself.

>> I would just say, "Hey, Dad, I'm going to be out on my 30th birthday." And that's the plan. And you go, I'm going to save up like a madman until then. I'm going to live off a,000 or 1,500 bucks a month, and the other 67 grand is going to go into savings for that house. Build for your own future and independence and you will not regret it.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 262. You Can’t Outearn Your Stupidity | October 22, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:02:22 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by my pal and co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour.

Another great show on the RMG network.

Rachel Cruz is here with us as well.

We're here to answer your calls about life and money. The number is88255225.

Miguel kicks us off in Dallas, Texas.

What's going on, Miguel?

>> Hey, George. How you doing?

>> Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hey, so um you know, I've been following you guys uh for quite a bit some time now. Kind of wish I'd started earlier like most people, but >> 100%. Same.

>> Here we are. Um, you know, I'm working on on step number six, uh, thankfully.

Um, but I do have a question because I I listen to, um, Dave say all the time how

credit cards are the devil and they are the worst thing that one person can uh, use. And and I agree with all of that except um so a really

long time ago uh kind of like Dave I at

a very young age I did bankruptcy and since then I learned to live within my

means. Um so I've but I've had a lot of

credit cards since then. I just paid them off at the end of the of the month.

I don't have any credit card debt. I haven't had for over 10 15 years now.

Good. So my question is um you know if I

pay off my credit cards at the end of the month and I am using them a lot so that I can get like you know free tickets to travel with my family and stuff like that. Uh would you still recommend that I don't do that? Uh if so why or is it okay for me to continue using my credit cards as long as I pay

them off? >> Well, as of this recording it's still a free country. So you are free to do as you wish. Miguel. And so, is it okay?

Sure. If it's working for you, go for it. But the reason you called in, there's something inside of you that maybe is thinking, >> is there a better way? Could I be doing better? Could I optimize if I use my own money instead of using someone else's and paying it back every month later on?

Sure, you could make the argument in hypotheticals all day long. Uh, but the the real thing here is you're using it to get free travel, correct? Did I hear that right?

>> Yeah, correct. And so, have you actually added up what it would have cost you if you had paid cash, done your own research, found the right flights that work for your family, like, "Okay, I got I got $600 in value out of this, and it cost me 200 for the card for the year." Have you done the math on that?

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, it definitely pays off. Uh like for example last year I

took my family to Europe and it I

completely paid for our uh flight tickets. It was $4,000 worth uh just

with points. I think I had to pay a little bit off. >> How much did you spend tax on it?

>> Oh, you said you had to pay it off the balance the next month.

>> No, no, that that was just paid off with points. So you said you owed a little bit still for the flights is what you meant. Okay. Well, yeah, they make you pay like some taxes, but it was like $200 or something like that.

>> And then how much did you have to spend in order to earn that many rewards, that many points?

>> Uh, >> it sounds like it was a few years of spending. >> Yeah, I haven't done the math, but it was probably a couple hundred grand or something like that. >> There we go. Ding, ding, ding. So, Miguel, the truth is you could have saved up four grand out of a few hundred grand that slipped through your hands.

Am I wrong?

>> Well, but Okay, so here's the thing. I use my credit cards for everything. Uh, you know, I pay my >> I Yeah, I pay my bills. I pay, you know, everything that doesn't charge me a fee for using a credit card.

>> Yeah. A lot of those bills will charge you 3 4% for just running that credit card. >> If they charge me if they charge me even a penny, I won't use my credit card. So, I don't pay my mortgage or anything like that with my credit cards.

But, there are actually a lot of things that I can pay with my credit card. I do my groceries with my credit card, all of my regular spending. Um, and that adds up to quite a bit, you know, throughout the years. >> You've impressed Rachel.

>> No, she's not. >> I'm just sighing. Well, here's the thing, Miguel. A couple of things. Number one, >> sure. >> Studies have been done and it has been proven mathematically that you do actually end up spending more when you're spending it with a credit card.

And it may just be groceries and all the things, but because there is zero emotional connection to your money, subconsciously naturally without you even realizing it, you end up spending more.

we don't even know how that happened. And I'm like, well, because I know because there's no emotional. So, you don't even realize the amount of money that you're actually overspending. So, over years of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on this credit card to get $4,000 of flights, what could have been saved actually may have been even more than $4,000 with the subconscious spending that you're doing and not even realizing it.

So, that's one thing. And then number two, Miguel, like, and again, this is a personal kind of conviction for me and it may not be for you. I'm not saying it has to be for everyone, but what is what's so frustrating to me and I think because we're in this line of work and George and I talk to people every single day who do have credit card debt and these banks and this whole debt industry has screwed over the American people. They have they have not helped people.

They have hurt people. That's why we have a job. And because of that, the people that are hurting, the single moms that are calling in that have $11,000 in credit card debt and they're trying to get out or it's the families who lost like people that are struggling and they are in credit card debt and they're the ones paying the fees. They're the ones paying the interest.

So off the I mean, it kind of feels like off the backs of people who are struggling and hurting. I don't want a free flight out of that. I have the ability to save up and work hard myself and not have to deal with this industry at all. And there's and I have no bill at the end of the month. You know what I mean? Like I pay for my groceries.

Sometimes I do Instacart and have them delivered and then it's done. And then I'm done. And I'm like I don't have to I don't have to play this game with them.

And and so there's just something so freeing about it. And again that may not be everyone's conviction but when I see mass I see banks and I see their bill all the things too much.

>> Yeah. And I'm just like man they have y'all have screwed over people and people are giving their hard earned income >> to these places to these industries >> and they're not allowing to be able to help themselves, you know. And so I'm like I don't I don't want it. I don't want it.

I will save up. I'm I'm booking a girls trip actually today. I was telling George I was going to buy some tickets and I'm like I will go on Southwest and buy my >> I think it's $196 one way, you know, to get and I'm like that's fine. I will budget for that like all day every day and I don't have to worry about it.

So there I don't know Miguel. It's uh >> here's the experiment. This is fun. So let's say you spent $200,000 to get four, right?

That's 2% cash back.

Here's the experiment. Use your debit card for a year and see if you spent 190 grand instead of 200. Well, that just saved you 10 grand. So, you just gave yourself $10,000 in rewards by not spending more.

So, that's that's the the thing that I can't help you figure out on paper. That's something that you need to explore for yourself. And again, there's the the moral side. I cover eight objections of why people won't stop using their cards in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

So, how about this? I'll send you a copy.

>> Yeah. No, look, and I I totally agree uh

with you guys um as far as Hello.

>> Oh, I was say, "No, you don't, Miguel." >> Rachel was laughing because you don't agree. >> You don't agree. You're charging those credit cards up. That's fine. We love you. We are great. We're great.

>> Especially with the part uh that you know there's, you know, you don't feel the money coming out of you, you know, when you're using a credit card. Um so

my question is, so >> I wish we had time for more. Miguel, you you burnt out the clock telling us about all the rewards you got going to Europe, my friend. But hey, call us back and hang on the line. I'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I think it will enlighten you with all the stats.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Andrew's up next in Cleveland. What's going on, Andrew?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Good. >> Um, so my question is, what should I

prioritize? I'm I'm currently employed.

I work in corporate finance, but the job's unstable. I've I've been in the field for a few years now, and just come to realize it's it's not the career for me, and I need to make a change.

I was thinking about going into nursing, but I wouldn't be able to start a program probably till summer. So, given,

you know, the unstable job situation,

I'm not sure if I should prioritize building my emergency fund to cover the unemployment period or having to, you know, work at a severely reduced income or I still have $8,000 on my car I need to pay off over the next few years.

>> Okay. What uh what's causing it to be unstable?

Um, I'm just not very good at it. And you know, >> Oh, you're scared. You may get like you may get like, "Oh, I hear you. I hear you." Have you had some like formal discussions with your leaders and stuff like written up and that kind of thing if that you know >> it's probably coming? >> But I feel like it's coming. >> Okay. Okay, that's fair. Um, >> what kind of work is it?

>> Um, you know, corporate budgeting, forecasting. I I used to I've been in it for a few years. used to be good at it, but I guess the last two years since co I've not become good at it or I've just reached roles that are too senior for my skill set.

>> And you don't enjoy it either, which means you're really not going to try to get better at it when you hate it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there something else in that field? >> I put in a ton of hours, but it just doesn't seem to >> What are you making right now, Andrew, doing that?

>> Yeah, like 110. >> Okay. Is there a role you could take?

Um, I don't know if you want to stay at that company or a different company that at least is a little bit more enjoyable.

You may take a little bit of a pay cut if it's less of a senior role just to get you in a place where at least you're making in an income. You can save um for nursing school and like can actually float you through some of the things you want to do in the future.

>> Yeah, I would like to be able to do that. I just don't know if it's going to be an option. you know, if if this role doesn't work out, if they'll let me take something more junior at the current company or they'll just, you know, cut me off and then I'll have to, you know, try to just find something in the open job market. I have been looking but had a couple interviews but no offers.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> 39. >> 39. Okay. And how long have you been doing this?

>> Like seven years. >> Okay. >> Are you married? >> You good at it? You enjoy it? No.

Single. No children. >> Okay. I'd like to do those things, which is why I'm trying to figure out a way to

reset my career so I can get back on track in life.

>> Yeah, it sounds like there there's a lot behind this. It sounds like you're like Eeyore is your spirit animal right now and you're just down and out. I mean, you got a bunch of debt, you don't like the job. Is it just feel like you're ready for a life change?

>> Yeah. You know, other than the car, I just have a mortgage payment, which is like 1,400 a month. And, you know, luckily living in the Midwest, it's a little cheaper than the coast. Yeah. So, all you have is the 8,000 on the car loan and you have what's what's left on the car loan? You have 8,000 in savings.

>> Yeah. 8 8,000. 8,000 and I currently have 23K saved.

>> Oh, wonderful. >> Well, that's great. Okay. Um, how much is nursing school, Andrew? How much is nursing school?

>> Um, I think it's about 20K a year. I do

have 11 months left on my GI bill that would cover half of it. And like most programs are just under two years, so cover all of it, but 20K is what you need. >> 70% of it.

>> Yeah. >> You know, like I said, I wouldn't be able to start the nursing program probably till the summer and I have a feeling I'll >> Why not January?

>> Um, you have to pass an exam and I have to do some prerex and it's just not enough time to do January.

>> Okay. So, yeah, you've done your research. I mean, at least you kind of know a a pathway.

>> So, the GI bill could still kick in and it would take half. You said it would pay for almost half of it.

>> Yeah. And so that's once I get into the program, I'm more worried about like how I cover my living expenses or prioritize

things between possibly losing my job probably like Decemberish to starting school in May or June.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I I don't know if nursing school you're probably going to have to have classes during the day. I mean, I I have a feeling it's going to be pretty time consuming. >> Full time. >> Could you work part time? >> Work part-time somewhere. work full-time, find a position, and then see if you can scale back when you start school.

>> Okay. Yeah, I could work part time.

>> Or even in the medical field, Andrew, is there anything from like an administrative standpoint with forecasting budgets and helping clinics?

Yeah, something just to at least >> kind of get your foot in the door.

I was going to I've been looking for project management jobs because I have that certification and I thought HR would be lower stressful interesting even though pay is not amazing but that's kind of where I've been looking so far. Just like I said I've had some interviews but no offers.

>> Well, I would get some facts because right now it's a lot of unknowns and it feels like man why even go down this road. I would at least start the conversation with my leaders and see, hey, is there a different role here that would be better suited for me before they start knocking on your door saying, "Hey, man, you got to get out of here." So, I would start being a little more proactive about it. I would pay off the car today and then stack up that emergency fund back up >> and then start saving up for nursing school in the meantime while you have this great income.

>> You know, that's a good point, George, cuz I do wonder if you can get a different role and at least have again some level of high income. I mean, even if you go down to 90 to at least be working until the summer, you know what I mean? And be making that great of an income.

But being proactive may be great. And you may kind of hate it, but you also know it's you're going to be you're going to leave in the summer. So, you're like, "Okay, it's >> Yeah, it's it's 10 months, nine months, eight months." >> Yeah. I'm just I'm just worried I'm not going to make it to like the summer. So

at my company at your one year mark you can switch roles and I reached that in February. >> I know but be pro ask be proactive.

>> Can you just do us a favor and be h like be on yourself right now excited that you want to earn a great income and you want to serve and help because in your head you know it's getting me to nursing school. What I really want to do? >> Yes. That's what I'm thinking.

Let the nursing school dream fuel you to get good at your job for the next few months so that you can keep it until the summer. Do you see where we're going with this? >> It's just a temporary sacrifice. Just fake it.

Put a smile on and go, I know what I'm doing. And then all of a sudden they go, "Man, Andrew really knows what he's doing over there.

Good. Do you have good guy friends around you?" >> Yeah. I uh I play in a couple local men's adult hockey leagues. I I'm an avid runner. I ski.

>> Oh, great. Wellrounded guy.

>> Yeah. Love that. I'm glad. Yeah. There's like a thing to be doing that's fun for you and gives you life and joy. Love it.

Okay, perfect. I >> think we have a game plan here. >> I That's what I would do if I were you, Andrew. I'd be proactive and remember it's you got to just get through the nine months.

>> We don't want a gap in income and you got to figure out how >> you have a good job and you have your your foot's in the door. I mean, you and it's a great income. I mean, average salary in America is like 68,000. So, you're well above that.

So, you're doing better than most people. >> Yeah. So, stick with it.

Yeah, >> but it's kind of like in a relationship, if you kind of have this attitude like it's all going to go down, it sort of makes the relationship go down, doesn't it? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And that's what I'm worried about with your job. How much of this is in your head and they go, "Man, it seems like Andrew's heart's really not in it.

Should probably get rid of that guy." Versus a guy who shows up, does his work well, has a smile on his face. And again, you clock out at, you know, 5:00 p.m. and go home and go to hockey. You can still live your life and enjoy it, but I think that's going to help your it's going to sort if you fake it, it'll sort of make you have a better attitude towards all of this, especially when you know this dream is right on the other side.

>> It's not like I haven't been trying to do well, but I've been getting feedback I haven't. It's just not been formally documented. But yeah, I've been working like 10 12 hour days the last few months. >> Goodness.

It's me trying to keep up and it's our budgeting season. So, everyone's having to put in longer hours. Yeah. Kind of both.

>> Yeah. And I think if you raise your hand with some like that self-awareness of like, hey, I realize I'm not cut I'm not cutting it. Which is a which is a shot to the ego. Like that's not fun.

You know, no one likes to hear that. Um when you don't feel like you're winning in a role. So finding something that you can win at least. You may not love it.

It may not be your life's passion, but at least you have the skill set and the talent around it. Um, I Andrew, if you hold on the line, I do want to give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do because I know your your direction towards nursing, which I think is awesome, but even this quiz may kind of, >> you know, trigger something in you to realize like, oh my gosh, I could be doing this type of role in this company still, maybe. Um, >> yeah, maybe it's in the medical field, but it's not as a nurse.

It could be something completely different. Who knows? We don't want you to to waste any time.

So, hang on the line, man. We are rooting for you for just total life change across the board. I hope you call us back, you know, 6 months from now, 12 months from now, and you're like, I'm in a new season of life and I'm loving it.

Thanks for the call, Andrew.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] >> Matthew is in Louisville, Kentucky.

What's going on, Matthew?

>> What's going on, man? >> We're just hanging out, having a good time. What's your question today? >> Oh, yeah. Um, all right, man. I'm wondering, should I start thinking about getting me and my girlfriend an apartment and saving more forwards the future? >> Well, we're really getting ahead of ourselves here. How long you guys been dating? >> Uh, we're going on eight months now.

>> Well, might as well be eight years.

>> You like this gal?

>> Uh, she she's pretty all right.

>> Whose idea was it that we should uh live together? Um, sort of my idea because

she already lives with me, my grand and my grandparents.

>> She's living with you and >> How old are you guys, Matthew?

>> I'm 19 and she's 19.

>> Okay. Are you guys working in school?

What's your status?

>> I'm I'm currently working for a blasting company and she's currently working for Walmart. >> Okay, good for you guys. Um, and she's

living with your grandmother and you? Is that what you said? your grandparents and you? >> Yes. >> Um, and because it's too expensive for her to live on her own, like give me or is it relational? You guys just want to be together? >> It was it was between her and her dad.

Her dad wasn't really the best guy, so she wanted to leave him. Okay.

>> So, I gave her an out.

>> Okay. >> So, it was a bad situation. You said, "Hey, come come hang at grandma and grandpa's. They're cool with it." >> Yeah.

>> Okay. How do grandma and grandpa feel about all this? >> Uh, they they love her. They uh to be honest with you, she does more on a house than their own children do.

So >> I believe that >> they they love her. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And your plan is, hey, I want to live on my own, but she's got to come with me cuz she can't afford a place for herself.

What's the reasoning behind this? >> Um I'm more or less we just want to get a head start on life itself.

There's on the property my grandparents live at. There's two buildings in the backyard that's holding their kids.

>> Okay. So, yeah, there's a lot happening.

>> Okay. Um Yeah. So, Matthew, what I would

what I would tell you is

um what we've seen um on the show and just in life that the

couples >> that actually go in an order that's a

little bit old school, you could say, >> actually have higher >> levels of success within their relationship from a commitment standpoint. And so if this is someone that you're thinking really could be you could get married to her.

>> Um I would encourage you guys that maybe

>> she goes and finds an apartment on her own and maybe you still stay with the grandparents for a little bit while you save some money. Um but this whole kind of out of order living together before get married all the things we just found from a relational standpoint there are

higher levels um of success with couples

that literally do in order of they get engaged they get married they move in they have kids like that natural progression um because there's I mean again there's been so many like psychologists and therapists and stuff that come out because there's a there's a weird commitment thing that happens when you live with someone that you're not married to because there's always the exits. There's always a door. Now granted, when you're married, you can always get divorced, but there's a lot of >> bigger Yeah. bigger implications when it comes to that.

>> Um, so yeah, I would just say from if you if you really love her and you guys are thinking like, hey, this could be the thing, which maybe, you know, you know, um, then I would I would pump the brakes on living together.

probably, it sounds terrible, but it's true. There there's an easier out if you need to end the relationship. I mean, you guys are both 19 and I got married young. I was 21, so I think it can happen.

I'm not against getting married young by any means. Um but you also lock yourself into a situation with splitting rent. You you add in all these elements of life um when you're dating that almost feel like you're playing house. you almost feel like you're playing married but but there's not the commitment of it if you will.

Um so that's what I would just say as like a big sister to you Matthew if I was sitting down with you. That's what I would encourage you just from a life >> sounds really logical >> from a life perspective >> but you know you guys are resilient. I'm like she comes from a hard a hard place like that that's a that's a tough situation. I couldn't imagine being 19 and having, you know, to make a choice of like, I have to go on my own.

And she's work, she has a job, she's working. Um, which we get calls on the show, people that are 35 and haven't had a job for nine months. You know what I mean? >> Work ethic is a great sign of success for a relationship.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, I think you guys have a lot going for you.

um be still thinking and dreaming about the future together. 100%. Um, but I

would probably I I would not um

>> Yeah, let's throw out some alternatives.

She has some girlfriends.

>> Um, not really. No.

>> No community. You're the only person she has in in her world.

>> Um, yeah. Me and my family. Yeah.

>> Man, >> did she were Did you guys like go to high school together? >> Uh, no. We went to same county, different high school. >> Okay.

Okay. >> Okay. Cuz my suggestion is, and they don't have to be BFFs, but just get a couple of roommates, and you might need to do the same depending on your situation. At 19, it's just roommate territory.

I had roommates all the way up until I was married. And I think it's a very healthy thing to a step toward that independence without having it all fall on you. Cuz my fear is she's working at Walmart and you're making more than her and you go, "Well, I'll put the rent and you just cover some groceries." And all of a sudden, there becomes this financial imbalance as well. there becomes some entitlements if you're going to pay my bills and I don't have to really go beyond this stage of my career.

So, I'd love to see you both go, hey, what do we want to be doing 5 years from now?

We'd love to have more stable jobs. We'd love to be doing work that we enjoy. And so, you can help her figure that stuff out now while you're dating to help her get a a head start, but I wouldn't do that by getting an apartment together.

>> All right. Thank you.

just one man's opinion, but I I think you got a a great heart and there's some you both have been through some things. The fact that you're living with your grandparents at 19 tells me that there's been other family dynamics and dysfunction probably in your life too, right? >> Uh something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And so I just don't want you I want you guys to make these decisions from a place of strength. And right now it seems like we're just running from the thing that we're in and we're going from one bad situation to a slightly less bad situation.

Mhm. >> So, I'm hoping for your uh independence and I hope that this relationship progresses and one day you put a ring on it and get married and then get a place together and I think you will find that it was well worth the struggle and the patience and the sacrifice. So, thank you for that. Tammy is up next in Detroit. What's going on, Tammy? How can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um I have a question in regards to um kids after

they graduate. So, they turn 18. Um my

husband and I are in steps uh four, five, and six. We've been kind of saving for the kids college fund for the past

probably three to six months. So, we do have some funds right now. Um in those

accounts, I have an 8-year-old and a 5-year-old. Um we did start a 529 for

our 8-year-old, but kind of looking at the way we're investing, I would kind of like to like hone in on what we're doing and what our plan is. Um, my question is

if we should fully invest everything in a 529. Um, because our fear is that we

do that and one or both of the kids end up not wanting to go to college or wanting to do something else and then we have all of that money tied up in a 529 that we're going to get penalized for taking it out outside of a college plan.

My thought was if I we did half in a 529

for each of them and then half in a mutual fund even though I know those are going to be like the mutual fund is going to be taxed. Yeah. >> If we you know take that out later on.

>> Yeah. >> It's kind of like a safe bet though to not put all of our eggs in one basket.

>> Totally. No, I hear you. And we you know >> I would say my husband and I were we have the same discussion. You know what I mean?

we our plan is that they I we I want them to go to college um and if we're able to pay for that that's a gift to them um starting off because I just think from 18 to 21 you know and all the

personalities have a little bit of a different opinion about the college thing. Ken Coleman has kind of a different one, but I just think it's a great step. I really do. Um, if you're able to um because I think you learn a lot about yourself, I think that you getting a degree makes you marketable, all the things if you're able to pay for it.

I mean, really. Um, but if that fear is still there, you if you want to, you could slow down the 529, depend on a mutual fund, but just know you're going to be paying those taxes. It does not have as good of a benefit. But if you guys get 5 years down the line and you're like, "Oh, wow.

We probably they are going to go to school." You can throw more in. >> Yeah. And you can roll over, you know, up to 35k with the new secure act 2.0 from that 529 over to a Roth IRA over a period of time. So you're not out of luck >> in their name.

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[Applause] [Music]

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Waco, Texas. Up next, Cole, how can we help?

>> Hi. So, I have a little bit of a a

stupid tax that I have to pay.

>> Oh, no. We've all been there. What happened?

>> So, I bought a car. Um, to preface, the plan was to work my butt off for a couple years, pay this car off, and go into automotive engineering school with a awesome paid off project car

with about a 20k splash fund so I could work part-time and all that. Well, the

20k of that, I was given a coin that got

stolen from me. And long story short,

the plan changed. I kind of fell into

the depression for like eight months or so and I'm coming out of that.

>> Wait, got Wait, it got stolen?

>> Wait, >> you said a coin?

>> Yeah. So, I was getting coin.

>> No, it was a 1995 West Point Silver Eagle Proof State. >> A physical. >> A physical coin that you paid 20,000 for. >> I didn't pay for this coin. Uh, my uncle bought it back in 1995.

>> Okay. it kind of hung around and he gave it to me and said that he would hold on to it and uh he didn't he sold it and

took that money for himself.

>> But you didn't So you never you never had the money?

>> I never physically had it. But >> but it was promised. It was promised to you. I hear you. Okay. >> That's >> And you didn't keep his word and he went and sold it and used the money.

>> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. And that relationship is is long done, it sounds like.

>> Uh yes, for the most part. I still deal with them, but I don't talk to them.

>> Okay. Uh >> where do we stand today? How much debt do you have?

>> So I I have roughly $33,000 in debt.

Four of that is credit cards. 293 is my

car. Uh

I'm roughly a little less than $10,000 upside down on it. I have no savings or

anything like that. >> So, it's worth about 19 >> and you owe 29. >> It's Yeah, it's really roughly worth about 21 at the moment. >> Okay. >> Is that for private sale? >> Wholesale? That's wholesale.

>> Okay. >> I might be able to get a little bit more out of it. >> Oh, yeah. You will. Yeah, you probably get 25 if it's like an individual.

So, >> I just don't know how to get out of this car quickly because also I'm 22 and insurance on it is >> Yeah. >> more than the payment on the car.

>> Yikes. Okay. What do you make?

>> Uh, I was whenever I purchased the car, I was making 50K a year. Um, now I'm

making roughly 33.

>> Oh, no. >> Yikes. All right. >> Do you have anything in savings? >> 8 month span. >> No, you don't have anything. >> Zero.

>> Zero. I have about 11K and a 401k.

That's it. Okay. Yeah. Let's not touch that. >> Um, what do you do for a living? What are you What are you doing for work >> right now? I'm detailing cars. Uh, I could, you know, do it on the side and stuff. I just haven't really >> So, you work for a detailer?

>> Yeah. I I work at a dealership at the moment. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> You make 33k doing that and you're allowed to do it on the side on your own? >> Yes. >> On nights and weekends? Yes. >> Okay. >> And what were you doing when you were making 50k?

Selling cars. >> Selling cars. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

>> Um, yeah. I mean, I would be making a career change and selling this car. That those

would be my two biggest moves right now. And if you can do the detailing on the side, um, >> all day. I mean, I would be doing that.

>> Could you do like five cars a weekend at 200 a pop?

>> Uh, if I It would be fine in the customers to do that. I could do that um

like timewise and physicalitywise. It's

just finding the customers. >> That's easy. That's the easy part. You go into any local Facebook group, neighborhood group%, >> you just do one good job and they'll tell people and say, "Hey, >> or go to a company.

I I drive through our parking lot and I'll see two or three details. They're mobile people." Yes. I mean, >> you start posting everywhere and you're reliable and you show up and you're professional, >> dude. You will have customers out the door and you can have recurring.

Hey, would you sign up for uh you know next month if I gave you cut you a deal?

>> Yeah. So, and and you know, Cole, what I would probably do, too, to get out. I mean, this car, what you owe is almost what you make in a year. And so, our rule of thumb is always about that 50% mark. So, you are way over that. So, I

would be in a little bit of panic mode >> um >> just to get rid of it. So, I I wonder if you could go down to your local credit union and see if they'll give you like a $8,000 loan or something, take four of it, pay off the difference of the car after you sell it for 25 to an individual, and then you'll have 4,000 to buy a really crappy car.

>> Will the dealership give you like the worst car on the lot?

>> Uh, most of the cars that we sell here are over $10,000. Uh, I was think that's

what I've been thinking is going to my credit union and asking them for an amount and getting a car. And so that is a viable option in this situation is trying to talk to my credit union.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I mean, I would though because I would much rather you have $8,000 that you owe versus $30,000 that you owe.

>> Um, >> and then you'll, you know, you won't have that payment anymore. You won't have insurance. >> What's the payment right now?

>> So, I I have pretty decent payment for at the moment. Uh it's 570.

>> Decently large. And then the insurance is over that large. Yes. >> And how much is the insurance? >> Uh so the insurance was larger than that

for a majority of it. It was like 600, but I gotten it down to like 350 and some change. >> Okay. >> What do you mean got it down? Did you remove some things from your policy?

>> No, I I found an insurance guy that

shops my insurance around and >> Okay. With a broker. All right. That makes me feel better. But that frees I mean that frees you up god close to $1,000 Cole a month if you can get this.

I mean grant you'll have the payment to the credit union. But um >> dude I'd be I'd be putting business cards in every single person's car I detail. >> Yes. >> And say hey uh I do this on the side.

Would be honor to to help you out if you ever need detailing.

>> Yeah. Are there are there nice uh upscale neighborhoods close to you?

>> Yeah, there's there's plenty of upscale.

>> That's what I would do, too. I would be.

Oh my gosh. Yes. All day.

>> We always say rich people are scared of leaves. So dirt work. They don't like

dirt. So go clean their cars. I mean, I'm not kidding. There is so there is so much so much you could do. Um because you have the talent for it. You know what you're doing. Do you know what I mean? You're not just like making this up. Anyone could go do it. >> You do it professionally. >> But you're like, "Yeah, you're good at this." And then are you able to step back in and sell cars and get some income back up?

Uh, I thought about it, but honestly, selling cars, I I don't like, you know, the the idea

of putting people in the situation that I'm in. >> Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear that. Okay. Well, we got to do something. >> So, >> we got to do something. >> That was that was the reason that I kind of left is because I didn't have that point that I was going towards and the work that I was doing wasn't my favorite. Um, but I think I'm going to

jump into the detailing thing. Another thing was that my girlfriend and I are planning to move to a different city in roughly a year or less. Uh, and that's

kind of why I'm really like, okay, I need to figure this out. Um, >> why are y'all moving?

>> She is planning on getting a full-time job in San Antonio, and I really don't

have anything left here that holds me

here. And I thought maybe the opportunities in San Antonio would be just as good, if not better, than here.

>> Yeah, I actually just met a couple from San Antonio.

>> This seems like a a good plan to kind of

see take our relationship to the next level also. And >> it definitely puts some pressure on you move out there with her. This thing better work out.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> So, um, >> good luck. And also remember this, you go with you. So don't think that your life is magically going to change just cuz you entered a different city.

>> The person you are now is going to go with you. So make the changes now before you move. Get yourself in a position that when you land in San Antonio, you're a different guy than you are today.

>> I already hit the ground running. I appreciate that, >> dude. I would go full in I would start detailing so much that I have to quit my job because I'm making too much doing it on my own. >> That's what I personally would do. These guys are making six figures that are doing it full-time. They're crushing it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go all in there. >> If you break out into, you know, clay bar and ceramic coating and like you start get into some fancy stuff, you can charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars per job. And I think you love their cars. They'll pay for it, too. >> That's right. Not me, but Rachel would pay for it.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my f my friend Rachel Cruz this hour.8825-55225

is the number to call to join the conversation. Andy is down the road in Nashville. What's going on Andy?

>> Hey, not a whole lot. How are you guys doing today? >> Doing great. What's your question today?

>> Awesome. So, my question is I recently

purchased a home and um I've accumulated

quite a bit in debt which I know you guys practice against. Um, so to try and

mitigate this debt, I'm thinking what

I'll do is I've got a house on the property and a shop house on the property. What I'm really looking to do is to move into the shop house and rent out the bigger house, but um, seems like

some of the people I've got that are close to me have have advised against this. And, um, you know, I'm just I

wanted to ask the pros and they listen to the show. So, I'm excited to to hear what you guys have to say.

>> Okay. So, give us some some numbers,

Andy. How much are you in debt?

>> I bought the house for 250,000. Okay.

>> Put about 30,000 down. So, I've got

about 220,000 roughly.

>> Is that your only debt? Is just the house?

>> Yeah. So, actually I sold both vehicles

that I had at the time and now I'm driving around in in beers. Um, so so

yeah, that's my only debt.

>> Okay. >> It sounded like you had like racked up some consumer debt, but it's just the mortgage.

>> It's just my mortgage. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And how much do you make a year?

>> Roughly 130,000 a year.

>> Okay. And is the mortgage payment overwhelming to you or you're just wanting to do this just to get to get the house paid off as quickly as possible?

>> So, I make the house payment in in less

than a week. But the the main motivator

for why I'm doing what I'm doing or thinking of doing what I'm doing is because I'm a truck driver and I just don't make it home a lot. I'm only home about two days a week. So, I'm trying to >> Okay. >> I I've Yeah, I I've comped some similar

properties in the area that are being rented and, >> you know, I could I could basically come out even if I rented that and stayed in

the shop house. I could have my bills paid for for free basically.

>> How much How much is your payment a month?

>> It's around 1,500 a month.

>> Okay. Do Are you married?

>> Uh I'm not. Uh we're we're getting there. Okay. Does she want to live in the house once you get there?

>> She uh so we live in the house currently and she doesn't want to move out into the shop house. Even though I think it's nice enough for us, I don't think that it's up to her standards necessarily.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're not making it sound super enticing. I'll say that. You say shophouse, it doesn't sound like a place where a person should live. So,

>> well, it it's like an apartment. It if you could imagine a little studio apartment, it's something of the nature of that, but it's it's beyond livable.

It it's nice in my opinion. It's just >> Well, and she's the girlfriend. She's living there for free, I'm assuming.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, I wouldn't want to live in the shop house. So, if my if I was living with my boyfriend and he's like, "You got to go to the shop house because I'm renting this out." I'd probably be like, "Great. I'm going to go rent an apartment.

and right like she she needs to

>> do what she needs to do.

>> Um so relational I don't I don't want to make the decision based on the girlfriend. If it was your wife I'd be like >> Andy Andy Andy Andy >> but it's a girlfriend like she doesn't have any skin in the game. >> It just feels like this is not worth the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this. You don't need to do it. Nothing's on fire. You have a great income and a very reasonable mortgage. Why not just continue on?

Well, the >> what's the actual financial problem?

>> Well, as far as the as far as the

financial problem goes, it's just the fact that I've signed a 30-year note on this house and I'm thinking of all the interest that I'm going to pay. So, pay it off early. >> And I could be >> Well, I thought about doubling up the payments when I live in the shop house and then we could see each other more as well because I'm only home two days a week right now and you know. So, >> could you double the payments now while still living in the main house?

>> I probably could.

>> Yeah. The only downside I would think is that if Are you wanting this house long term, Andy? Like, do you see like it'll probably be with you for a while? I just I always it feels a little weird to have people living in a house for two, you know, two or three different families or people um and then you go back and move back into it.

Does that make sense? Like I don't know. It's um >> so >> it just doesn't feel like any of this was intentional. It's just sort of like well I could do this and your family steering you against it.

Why?

They're steering me against it because they know that I can afford it as is and

no one in my family has ever rented out a property before. But the way I look at

it from a financial standpoint is if I

live in the shop house, double or triple up on payments, I can have a I can turn a 30-year mortgage into a, you know, a three or four or fiveyear mortgage.

>> Sure. >> And >> and then I can be off the road at that point as well. Yeah, for me it's making sense from a lot of different angles.

>> Yeah, I'm not mad at it. I mean, I don't think it's necess I don't think, like what George said, I don't think this is an urgent move that I if you had called and I would have been like, "Oh, you have a shop house? Great. You should live in that to rent out your main house." That would not have been my advice to you anyways.

>> But if you want to do it, that's I mean,

that's up to you. and you'll make extra payments and but you're just going to have people living in there and then the something's going to leak and break and they're going to be calling you on the road. You're going to have to, you know, figure out, okay, I got to get a plumber down. I mean, there's legit >> it's not hasslefree. It's not just easy money, >> right? And I think a lot of people think having a rental there's like it's passive income is what everyone says.

And it's it's there's a level of responsibility you have that you have to be on call, you have to be willing to to work with these people, whoever's going to live in there. Um but but one thing I

do like Andy is that you're not desperate because then you can actually probably go through a an actual >> you'll take worse tenants interview process and get some good tenants and you know what I mean like you're not in a rush. >> So I would never suggest you do it. I don't think you need to but if you want to then do it and then >> I don't think it's going to break you but I don't think it's going to be the sweet sweet free money that you're envisioning either.

>> Okay. So, do you have savings in the bank? You have an emergency fund?

>> Yep. Yes, sir. I do.

>> How much?

>> I've got roughly 35,000

liquidity. >> You've done really well. >> Yeah, Andy. Well done. >> I'm proud of you, man. >> Seriously. >> Thank you. >> I I just think I would set a goal for myself where I still get to live in my own house and then I make extra payments. And so, figure out a way to do that and I think you'll cut your mortgage in half or more just on your own valition without ever becoming a landlord.

Okay, >> that would be my goal. >> Giving me a >> That's great. >> And once you're married, if she's working, she'll add to it, too. She'll help knock down that mortgage if you guys are both working.

>> I don't know how she's going to like that idea >> of her working in the future.

>> Is she working now? >> You know, she is she is a gym coach for

little girls and they actually went to the Junior Olympics this year. So, >> that's sweet. Really nice. So, I love

for her to follow her dream. >> Do you think I could make the team?

>> Well, you could try. I think she'd be happy to work with you. She likes anybody. She's good with people.

>> That's sweet. She sounds like a keeper, man. Best of luck to you with this uh decision. It's not an easy one. I I wouldn't take it lightly, but I think you have a good game plan here of just figuring out how to do this without becoming a landlord for now. Good luck.

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[Music]

Jack is in Dallas up next. Jack, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you guys >> doing? Great. How can we help today?

>> I'm wondering how to pay off debt with my fiance.

>> That sounds dicey. Whose debt is it?

>> Yes. Well, a little bit of mine and a little bit of hers. I have a car loan and she has student loans. She'll be graduating from law school in May of 2026. >> How much is that going to be?

>> Uh, I think about 60,000. See, part of the thing is I don't know exact amounts.

I have uh rough ideas and I've seen it in the past. Um, but we haven't actually sat down and talked about it since we've been engaged.

>> Okay. When's the wedding?

>> Uh, March 21st. And we're actually in um premarital counseling with our church right now and we're doing the finances topic this Sunday. >> Awesome. >> Well, there you go. So fun. Okay. So, hers you don't know how much she'll owe in law school debt >> exactly. >> Yeah. I imagine it's going to be around 60,000. Um >> are you saying 50 or 60? Sorry.

>> Uh 60. >> 60. Okay. And yours is how much?

>> Uh 32 on a car.

>> On a car. Okay, perfect. How much are you making right now income wise?

>> About 110. About 110,000.

>> All right. And when she gets out of I'm assuming she's not working right now.

>> No, she has a part-time job, but just a like grocery and gas. >> And she will graduate. You said sorry.

Um >> May.

>> Yes. Next May. >> Okay. So, she'll be in school for like two months while you guys are married.

>> Graduate and then she will How much do you think she'll make coming right out?

Does she have any idea? >> Ballpark. Uh, we're not sure. I've been ballparking like 70,000 or so.

>> Okay. Yep. That's great. Um, well, I mean, the answer's really easy. As of right now, you just be paying on your debt and try to get your car paid off.

It'd be a fun game to try to get it paid off by the time you guys get married.

>> And the goal should be not go into any more debt. >> Yes. So, no debt for the wedding, no debt for honeymoon, all of that. Um, but yeah, you you just keep everything separate until you officially get married.

And then when you guys have the wedding in March, um, come back from the honeymoon, then you guys can attack this as a couple. >> Combine bank accounts, combined incomes, combine the debts, do the debt snowball method. So just whatever the smallest balance is left, we're going to attack that and make minimum payments on the rest. And you guys will plow through this with her new income and your fantastic income and under 100,000 of debt to pay off.

>> Got it. Do you think I should deploy? I have a little bit of a cushion. Um, should I deploy any of my excess savings into the car right now? I guess just kind of pay as much as I can on the card. >> How much do you have that you could liquidate?

>> Um, let's see. I've got 37K in retirement. Eight of that is in a Roth.

Um, and then I have like 12K in various

cash savings right now. >> Okay. So, we won't touch retirement, but anything that's cash or non-retirement, you could >> Hold on. How's How's the honeymoon and the wedding getting paid?

>> That's a good question. Well, so her parents are paying for the wedding. I am paying for the honeymoon. And so some of that savings will be going towards the honeymoon.

So I guess really I have like 5k in savings. I am also living rentree with my grandparents right now. >> Oh, nice. Great.

>> So you could really stack away cash fast. >> That's what I'm thinking.

>> You got intense? >> I don't think I could get all the way there, but I could probably get it down to like 15 or less, I would imagine. I mean, you're making like what? 7K a month take home >> basically. 67 68. Yeah.

>> Okay. And you don't have any rent. So, like, could you throw 5K a month at the car and be done in 6 months?

>> If I tried really hard. Yeah. I I I struggled with lifestyle inflation once I got the job because I've been making since I've got out of >> This is what I was getting at, Jack. I find that when people are living rentree, they tend to get comfortable and their spending tends to go up, not down. >> So, you just trade what you would have paid in rent and it disappears into Door Dash and whatever else.

>> So, I would implore you like your life and marriage is on the line to attack this car loan so that when you guys are married, you have freed up that car payment, which is how much a month?

>> Uh, 559.

>> Boom. So now we have an extra 600 bucks of horsepower to throw at these student loans on top of our now dual income come May. >> For sure. For sure.

>> Yeah. Get aggressive with it, Jack. I mean, honestly, because y'all are going to be living that same lifestyle >> besides just rent because I'm sure you guys will rent somewhere. Um >> to pay off these student loans.

So, you kind of getting in the habit of being disciplined and learning to say no and all the things will go right into marriage. and you guys together, you kind of live on we we say rice and beans and rice, rice and beans and then get the student loans paid off and then you guys Yeah. are making almost 200k a year. My gosh.

With no with no debt, you know, >> and then her 60k of student loans is knocked out super fast. >> And it's going to be easier to sacrifice right now, Jack. It really is. When you guys get back from the honeymoon and you you know, your friend, you guys are It's just going to be this whole new exciting part of life.

Like right now is when I would do it >> as much as possible. the stakes.

Life is only going to get more expensive. So, while you're still quote unquote single, I would use this time you have while she's in law school.

Super busy. You get busy, too, paying off that car loan, my friend. >> Get an extra job. I mean, yeah, y'all just go crazy and get it paid off. You can do it. >> How old are you?

>> Uh 24. >> Oh my goodness. >> And then, Jack. Yeah. And then you said you probably will have around 5,000 in savings. That's not going to the honeymoon. Throw that at it. You know, just get this momentum going. That knocks it down to 27 and now he's throwing 5K a month. You're done before the wedding, my friend. While still having enough to cover the honeymoon. This is a best case scenario.

>> All right. Thank you guys. >> Boom. >> Congratulations. >> So exciting. >> Excited about March. What a great month.

What a great month to get married. >> Is that when you guys were married? >> No, December. >> Okay. I don't know. It just feels springy and new. I don't know. It's great. >> Rebirth. Beautiful.

>> All right. Emily is up next in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Emily?

>> Uh oh. Oh, your phone's all busted. Emily, can we hear you?

>> I can hear you. Can you hear me?

>> Yeah, we're good now. >> I'm so sorry. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's your question? >> Um, I have a 4month-old son that we have

started a 529 plan for. Um, but I was

speaking with my financial adviser a little bit ago and she recommended um a

UTMA or UGMA account. Um, I was just

wondering what your thoughts were on possibly putting some money in a UTMA

account, like to pay for um, maybe like

their first car or something like that, or if I just should put all that money towards 529.

>> Awesome question. How old are the kids?

>> Um, I just have a fourmonth old son.

>> Oh, sweet. Okay, so we got plenty of time. This is the best time to open up an investment account. >> Uh, here's my thing, and this is nothing not a knock against your financial adviser. I'm personally not a fan of the UTMA and UGGMA accounts because that money is legally that child's money. So, you lose control completely.

>> Okay. >> And there's no way to restrict Yeah.

once they turn 18 or 21 depending on the state law. >> It's basically like opening an investment account in their name, but the UTMA's the umbrella that covers it shields it from them until they're 18.

So, what George is saying is if you start investing, investing can be crazy over 18 years if you start throwing like a hundred 200 bucks in a month. I mean, that stuff can just it could be a lot of money for an 18-year-old. So, George is just saying caution because you could be handing over I mean, tens, hundreds, thousands of dollars. Yeah. Depending on how much you put in there >> and how much growth. >> Um, but yeah, so for a car and stuff, I probably wouldn't honestly. Um, now mom

and dad, they did for us, we started um

when we started working and actually could file a tax return and all of that, they opened up a Roth IRA.

>> Once you have earned income, it's >> Yeah. And that was more when we were teenagers. Um, but that kind of thing is so helpful cuz it's crazy even just that me opening that as a teenager versus even my husband when he opened his when he was like 23, you know, starting to work like even that year of difference.

So there's ways to definitely set them up well to get some things going. Um, like a Roth or the 529 as well, but things Yeah. for them um purchases like a car and that kind of thing. Emily, honestly, I would probably have them involved in it.

I would just have a high yield savings account and you guys just kind of cash flow it uh when the time comes. >> What I would do and what I am doing, Emily, for my kids is I'm going to do a 529 plan for each kid, invest there, and then if I want money beyond that for, let's say, a wedding one day, a house down payment to give to them. I'm just going to do that in a non-retirement brokerage account that I have control over. That makes me feel a whole lot better than handing >> you can just gift it if it's not beyond the gift tag, right?

Yeah. You can gift it to them. >> Yeah. And it's not under their name at 18.

>> So that's a safer bet. I like the plan of 529 for college. Let's make sure we get that done. >> Are you prepared for Mia and Henry to just be crazy Helens that you're like, I can't give you any money.

I don't trust you.

>> What kind of kids will I raise? >> What are you going to raise, George? >> Likely they'll be so frugal. They'll be like, Dad, we're not that's so much money. I'm like, I raised you right, kid. I raised you right.

>> It's a great question, though, Emily. You're you're a good mom to be asking for a fourmonth old >> for a fourmonth old. That kid's going to be unbelievably wealthy. It's changing a family trip. >> Well done.

[Music]

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[Music]

Patrick is up next in San Diego. What's going on, Patrick? How can we help today?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> Good. Uh sort of simple question, but I'm assuming there will be more uh probing necessary. Um I live in a county where the housing costs are pretty high.

Um my wife and I have uh 20 to closer

actually to 25% um saved up for a down payment. Um but

if that was to happen, it would have to be a 30-year instead of a 15. Um, I know the show enough to know, you know, 15 is

is going to be what we're directed toward, but I'm wondering how hard and fast is that rule thinking of certain

areas where um a 30 might be more

practical, especially get into the housing market.

>> Well, I'll start off with this. What we always tell people, and you're from California, and we usually end up saying it to people from California, that you're not exempt from math. uh it is what it is. So like that it doesn't you know from a philosophy standpoint our uh

advice does not change because of where you live. It you know the math is the math. So the 15 year to the 30-year it it is what it is. So um so I would say

yeah I mean we will always stick to that 15-year just to lock you in to a system that's going to get you out of debt as soon as possible. Now does everyone follow that Patrick? No they don't. But um but I I would not steer you any other way. Um but again, is it something that

people do but follow Ramsey?

>> There are worse sins. Like I don't think it's going to ruin your financial life to get a 30-year. Uh but again, the amount of people who I find who actually pay their 30-year off like a 10, very slim. The people who get a 15-year and pay it off in 15, 100% of the time, they at least do that, if not way earlier.

In our in our millionaire study, we found that the average millionaire pays off their home in 10 years. That wasn't necessarily their first home, but they paid it off in 10 years. And the average baby stepper pays it off in a little over seven years. And so there's just this discipline and intensity going, I'm just going to do it in a way that limits how long I'm in debt against my human psychology, which says just lower the payment, make it easier on me.

down to get that payment reasonable on a 15-year? Have you done the math on that?

>> Yeah, close to I think so. The majority

of it is coming from um IRA that um we wouldn't be penalized

taking it out other than like capital gains taxes. Um, if we just let it sit

for a little bit more, I could imagine doing that. Um, but it Yeah. And it

would lower the monthly. That is uh correct. But it it spikes up such that I

don't know that the 15-year just sort of freaks me out. I'm content renting for the rest of my life. Um, and in this county, that's not necessarily a given.

It's just I I feel like a lot of people >> Well, no, it is expensive.

Yeah, you're inouthern California.

>> In this market, it makes a lot of sense to rent right now comparatively to buying a home. And so I think that's what you're experiencing. But you're saying, is it your wife that's like, "Hey, I really want my own home. I want some stability here." >> Yeah, I think so. Well, I should know.

So, yes, it is. >> Okay. And the other thing I want want to make sure that we have the parameter down. Our teaching is 25% of after tax

income, but that's before other deductibles like your health care premiums, your 401k contributions. And so that might help your math out in a good way if you just take, hey, here's our gross income, then here's our net income after taxes, and then you can subtract out any other premiums that come out.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. We we just went through a potential purchase that that fell through for HOA reasons and I think

I found that we probably could afford a little bit more than I thought. It just sort of I don't know big purchases scare me. We're we're just about done being um completely out of debt. We just have a a car and we have enough in the savings to

buy out the car. We're we're moving right now to an apartment because the the housing opportunity fell through.

And so I just I want to keep the the cash um just until we move for you know

for any unforeseen. >> So what's left on the car loan >> issues?

>> Uh 195 and we've got about 35 in

savings. >> But that 35 you're saying is your down payment fund or is that separate?

>> No, that's completely separate. That's all liquid just between a money market and our own just sort of not acrewing any interest uh savings account.

>> Got it. So, if you paid off the car today, that would leave you with 15K for your emergency fund, and you could beef that back up over the next few months.

>> Yeah, correct.

>> I would do that. I like that plan.

>> Yeah. My only concern is is I just I

would like to have it once we And we're looking to move in like two weeks. I would like to have it and then once we move and get settled in, then pay it off right away. I'm I'm looking to pay it off, you know, probably within like three or four weeks. I just want to make sure that it's there while we're moving.

Is Is that like I don't know. Is that over concern or or is that >> Probably it's going to cost you $30,000 during an move to an apartment.

>> Well, I mean they are running credit checks and things like that. So, that's one of the things we're in application process right now. So, I I wonder if it would look a little bit if you want to make sure you have enough. >> Well, usually it's first month's rent, last month's rent and security deposit >> for most places. Yep. um which is

plenty. >> They're not going to surprise you and be like, JK, you owe us $20,000 today. It's just not going to happen. So, I think a lot of this is a little bit in your head, a little bit of like, I feel this sort of false sense of security having this pile of money over here.

>> And again, just like the 15, like if you want to wait four weeks to pay off the car, that's fine. I think that the idea is that we're moving forward, but also I don't want you to get um stuck in a reality that's not reality either.

so, just yeah, I would just kind of challenge a little bit of that. But I think you guys you guys are on the right track. you're doing fantastic. Um yeah,

with all the money saved from down payments. >> Yeah. How much are saved in the down payment fund?

>> Um right now, so the the inner workings of it is it's an inherited being transferred into an IRA. So before I sort of promote myself as really diligent, a lot of that was helped out.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. So um in terms >> How much will you net from that once you cash it out after taxes?

>> Uh after Yeah. Uh and after sort of we're doing the slow transition so that you know it doesn't change taxes stuff like that. Um probably within 7 years or

so there will be my guess is around between um five and 550 into the um

non-inherited IRA. >> Okay. But you're moving it slowly to avoid getting hit with huge taxes.

>> Yeah. And we don't need any of it right now. So this seems like the best option.

>> Well, you need it for a down payment. So, how much are you going to be able to put down if you bought a house within the year?

>> That I mean that's the thing for me, too. I'm like, man, I would just love to get as close to paying cash for a home as I can. We're already investing in retirement as well. So, if we if we completely empty it out, um we'll still have retirement left over that we're continually building and then we'll have the asset of the home.

>> Yeah. Okay. I'm confused. You have your savings of 35,000 and then you have this inheritance that's coming.

It's not here yet.

>> We were going to purchase that. Yeah. So, I'm probably not being super clear. The inherited is currently in process and has been of moving to a um a Roth.

>> So, how much is in it to avoid the taxes? >> Um in the inherited or in the Roth?

>> The one that you would have access to to put a down payment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> 140. >> So, that was going to be your down payment.

>> Correct. Gotcha. Gotcha.

>> That makes more sense. What is the house going to cost that you're looking at?

>> What kind of budget? >> Yeah. Yeah. Probably my my ceiling is

750. Um but it's anywhere around there.

My I mean my hope would be somewhere around like 550 to six, but it's just it's tricky in this county.

>> Yeah. And I'll say, you know, I mean, real estate looks a little different everywhere, but for the most part, um it's a great time to buy. I'm like from a from a buyer's perspective, it's more of a buyer market right now than a seller. So even Patrick, if you guys pumped the brakes for another year or 18 months and got more of that inheritance, you know, like all of that to give you some cushion, I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a house.

But I I would be more on your wife's side that you want to be a homeowner. I think that's part of your financial plan overall. And if right now is the best time to get in if you're going to get in. So if you're going to get into the market.

So yeah, um >> I wouldn't do it tomorrow and I wouldn't wait 6 years either. >> No. >> So I'd find a game plan that works for both of you and just go hard at it. And I would follow the baby steps.

Right now it's a little bit all over the place.

And so I would just follow it through all the way, man. It's going to give you a lot of peace. >> Pay it off today. You can do it.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices, that's the middle, dipped a bit last month to about $426,000, a typical season shift as we head into fall. And buyers have more options and negotiating power, while sellers face some more competition, and houses are sitting out there a little bit longer.

Mortgage rates dip slightly to 5 a.5% in September, which gave buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop. Just like we say, hey, don't time the in, you know, stock market.

Don't try to time the housing market cuz you just don't know what's going to happen. So, to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. Sam is in Atlanta up next.

What's going on, Sam?

>> Hey, good afternoon. I appreciate you guys taking my call. Uh, quick thing.

Well, I started a construction company about a year and a half ago, and it's been rough going. And since running that company uh through Bed Business Partners, I've found I found the

business about $70,000 uh in debt. And I carry on top of the

$70,000, another $40,000 in debt. Uh the

business is bringing in about $10,000 a month. for that 10,000 I'm using about

five to six,000 per month to try to pay off some of this credit card debt that I've incurred uh with the business and

I'm at a point now because I had a work truck I paid off but it just

you know uh took a crap so I'm at this

point now where I need to buy myself a new vehicle to try to keep this business going to try to pay off this debt or do I just close down the business get a job work in construction with my experience where I can make maybe 120k a year and then just use that to pay off my personal debt of the $40,000.

>> Well, that sounds good. Not trying to >> How easy is that to just go get a job in construction, make 120K?

>> Uh, with my experience, it's quite easy.

You see, there's a lot of uh fields that are lacking in construction. There's this very big uh need in construction for talented individuals. and I have been in the industry myself for about 17 years. >> Cool. And is there any hope for this business to be making 20K a month in the

next few months?

>> Uh in order for me to make 20K a month, I would need to hire some uh some I would need to hire on some other individuals to let me carry on the road.

>> So why I guess why is the business struggling right now? What's the cause of that?

Uh the cause of that is I during the

last year and a half of me running the company uh with being a novice to owning

a business, I got bullied by some big general contractors. And what I know now

is that they breached their contract and made me take about a $70,000 loss over the course of seven projects.

>> So you got hosed on these deals?

>> Yes. All right. And is that going to happen in the future? I guess I'm wondering, is it time to close up shop because you're just tired of it, it's stressful, and you'd rather just work for someone else and collect a check because that's great. Or is there room for this business to actually scale and grow and help you clean up the debt faster?

>> Uh, there's a lot of room for the business to grow. I think I'm well, I say I think I know I'm much more well

adapted today than I was when I first started the company. Uh it's just this

that kind of gnawing at the you know the

back of my neck because my wife and I we've been debt you know for years uh up

until having this company.

>> Okay. So yeah you're in a in a tough spot right now and it's hard to see your way out. >> Yeah. And the business is bringing in 10K right now. So basically you would be you're bringing in 120. You'd be making 120. But when you own the business you have other expenses. You got your you got taxes you got to be thinking through. You got to have the supplies and all of it. >> Like are you getting 10k gross from the business? Is that what you're paying yourself?

>> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. That's the profit that you take home.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I would be applying and seeing what's out there. See if you can actually get that six figure construction job before I close it down just so there's not a gap in income. >> Yeah. What do you What do you want to do? What sounds enjoyable? What sounds

hopeful to you? Is it is it an easier mental load to say, "Oh, yeah, I can just go get a job and grind it out and pay this off." Or is it more does it

feel better to to still own the business

and have a little bit more control over your destiny?

>> I would really love to run my company.

>> Yeah. >> Uh it has less to do with the mental road. I just feel like I'm at a bit of a

a pinch point because the money I'm bringing in with the business just about

if not more than half of it goes directly to trying to pay off uh these this credit card debt.

>> Well, the thing is that's not going to change if you go get another job tomorrow and you make 10K a month, you're still going to need to throw 5, sixk a month at the credit at the debt.

So, how much of this is going to change if you were to close the business tomorrow? Would you be able to sell assets tied to the business? Sell, you know, client list, anything like that that would help you out? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. So, how much could you sell?

Like, what could you net after selling all the stuff, the pieces of the business, whether they're physical or otherwise?

>> I could net around 40,000. >> Okay. >> Well, that's good.

>> So, that gets you a ways into this debt payoff journey. So, that changes it for me. I'm going, "All right, well, you can always start a business later on in life, can't you?" >> Yeah. >> And closing this is fairly simple. Like are there people working for you full-time or is a lot of just 1099 contract work?

>> Uh it's it's only me.

>> Okay. Yeah. I think here's the thing. I

don't want you to look at this like, well, I failed. I'll never try again cuz we believe in small business and we believe in people like you. But there's also nothing wrong in hanging up the hat right now to do what's right for your family and clean up a mess and then restart just with cash debtree emergency fund and move slow into that next business. >> Yeah. And cash flow it as you go. If you if you go back and restart it, what does your wife say, Sam? What does she think?

>> Uh, she wants me to stick with the company. >> She does? Yeah. >> What's her reasoning? >> Yeah.

>> Uh, we're both pretty determined individuals. Uh, we're both the oldest child. And so, we've always just we've

never really had a network of people that support us. >> We found ourselves being very, very self-reliant. And just because things her mentality or our mentality is just because things are hard right now doesn't mean that they'll be hard forever. >> And I I agree with that. Um I have a question. When you said you were throwing 6K of what you're bringing home at the credit cards, is that is the credit cards part of the 70,000 or is that part of the 40,000 of other debt?

>> So that's a good question. So the 70,000

is the business debt under the business credit cards. >> Okay. And then the $40,000 worth of debt

is my personal debt from the credit cards that we've used to try to, you know, pay groceries, pay gas, um as you

know. >> Okay. >> The are you guys able to keep your household afloat with 4K a month?

>> Yes, >> you can. Okay. Okay.

>> And another question is, are you going to go into debt next month to keep this business running?

>> Uh, I don't think so.

Because so far it sounds like you've been using credit cards to keep your personal life afloat and keep the business afloat.

>> So have you stopped using the cards?

>> Yeah. So what happened there is

we were I was running these jobs and things were going smoothly and we were paying off the cards as we were going along and then when everything went south that's when we kind of got stuck.

>> Yeah. >> With the debt. >> Sam, does your wife work at all? Is she bringing home any any money?

She does. Uh she's a director for a marketing agency. How much does she bring? About >> uh about 120. >> Oh my gosh. Okay.

>> You buried the lead there. So you guys are making >> Yeah. Well, I a part of me would say Sam,000.

>> You guys want to stick with the business, but you have to you have to have some hard values around it. Like even if you have to go get a truck, you said we're not going into debt for the truck. We're gonna have figure out a way to save up and pay for the truck. Um, but if you're throwing 6K at this, I'm like, you guys can be out of the business debt and oh my, you know, um,

11 12 months in a year and then throw a bunch of her money at the personal 40,000. You guys could be debtree in two years.

>> Okay. >> Where's her 120 going? What are you guys doing with that income?

>> Uh, that goes to just pay our uh

>> I I'd figure out how to live on 4K and I'd

take $120,000 salary, throw it at this debt, and then an extra 6,000 that you're bringing in. If you guys tighten some stuff, >> you guys need to get on a budget. I think you guys have been spending like you make $240,000.

Start acting like you make $50,000.

>> Yeah. And then you can keep the business, but cut up the credit cards.

Be done with the debt when it comes to the business. Sam [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz. is the number to call. It's8255225.

Samantha is in Honolulu, Hawaii. What's going on, Samantha?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> Um, my question is that me and my husband, we completed FCU last year. Um,

we're currently debtree. We don't own a home. We rent here um in our home state and we have two um little kids. Uh we

combined between both of us we make about like 70 75K a year, but every

month um we're currently on baby step three. Every month we kind of are only living with like $600 left. Um and we

currently uh have like food stamps. we have wick and we are just kind of debating like if it's uh better to move to the mainland to try to you know buy a house um get more income or if we should try to just suffer it out here um because this is where we're from and um where our family's from and we don't want to take our kids away from this but at the same time we're like what kind of um life are we like living if we're like struggling you know.

>> Yeah. So where's all your money going every month? How much is your mortgage?

Um, oh, so we rent here um in Hawaii,

but um it's $1,500 a month. Um, we are

in a one-bedroom. We all like room share. >> Hey, Samantha, do you care? Can you adjust Hey, Samantha, can you adjust your phone? It's kind of popping. Are you able to take it off speaker? Maybe speak a little bit. >> Change it up for us.

>> Okay. Um, here. Is this better?

>> Not quite, but we'll we'll try it out.

Uh, so you have 1,500 in rent. What what's your other big expenses if you had to list out in priority like here's the biggest one, here's the next biggest one. >> So, our daughter goes to private school.

That's 1,100 a month. We also pay $900 a

month for babysitting. And um we uh own

our car, so we don't have a car payment or anything like that. Um but yeah, that's pretty much it. Maybe just like food and a little bit of lifestyle, but for the most part, we're at the beach, so a lot of the stuff is free.

Wow. So, you're on food stamps, but you got a kid in private school. That's pretty wild.

>> Yeah. Just cuz the education here um

isn't the best. And because of her age, she doesn't quite qualify for kindergarten yet. So, for her to be in school, she had to go into private school unless we were going to have her at a babysitter, >> like a daycare.

>> Oh. Um yeah, sorry. Like a daycare.

>> Okay. So, and your other kids in daycare. And so, alto together it's two grand. Wow. What would daycare cost?

>> Um, honestly, I'm I'm not sure. Um, I

didn't look into that. >> And then what are what are each of you making? Because it feels like you're in a very high cost of living area. There should be more than 75K if both of you are working full-time.

>> Um, well, I work part-time um as a flight attendant and then um my husband works full-time.

>> Okay. And what's causing the part-time flight attendant? Are you at home with the kids part of the time? What's going on there?

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, I try to be home um as

much as I can, so I don't work um as

much as I could. Um just because I feel like I I feel bad if I'm gone, you know, for like more than a couple days, like more than two or three nights a week.

>> Well, I think we're going to have to make some hard choices here cuz you're going to feel bad living in a one-bedroom apartment, living on food stamps. So, we have to make some there has to be some give and take here. So, if that means you guys have to move and you can keep your income and move to a lower cost of living area and you Yeah.

And Hawaii is one of the most expensive areas. But to George's point, usually if you offset that, >> I mean, you think of New York, the Bay Area, Southern California, like usually incomes for the most part, you know, for a family, you're going to make more naturally in that job market. And so,

>> um, what what does your husband do?

So he's a furniture installer like um um

technically it's like windows and glass furniture just um yeah like uh he works

for like a small company like a small private company. So he's applied to um change his career and um but we just at

the current moment um he really hasn't gotten anything back because he doesn't have too many like um like no trade like certifications or licensing. Um, so yeah, he's listening to some of the like trade schools here. >> Okay. Uh, how much how much hits your

>> Sorry, it's getting real bad here.

>> Um, real quick, how much hits your checking account every month, Samantha?

>> Um, roughly about like 5,500.

>> 5,500. Okay. Well, you know what I would

tell you guys is what you gave us was about 3500. So, you guys have $2,000 to spare. And that's to pay >> insurance, food, >> everything. Yes. Everything. Um so something's got to give, Samantha. You guys can't um like you said, you're not making any progress. And so um your

rent's not completely out of control, though. I'm like, >> the rent's not the problem. >> No. And and >> it's the mix of the 2,000 bucks going to the kids to get them in school and daycare >> and part-time work.

>> And the part-time work because if we could up the income, we can solve some of this problem. I don't know that we have a much of a solution here for the kids because they're going to be in daycare if you're working. So, I think we got to get you working full-time in order to >> How much do you bring home >> a month?

2,700. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, because I mean you're more than 2,7 by 700 bucks.

>> Yeah. >> Um, >> but I Where would you guys move if you were to move tomorrow?

Um probably to uh the only other state

we have family in is um Colorado. Um and

I think too because we're from this state, we don't know too much about like the seasons. And so I think that's probably been our biggest barrier or like our fear about moving um like driving in the snow or something like that. Um so but no, I I get what you're

saying. I think it's just um upping the income to kind of like make the sacrifice or to try to move.

>> Yeah. I don't there's no magic wands I can think of here to go, well, this is the problem. I mean, the kids are young.

They need to, you know, be in a daycare situation unless you decide to stay home. But again, that doesn't solve the main problem here. You're still going to have a few hundred bucks left over if you're lucky. So, I think we also need to look at the lifestyle choices and make some sacrifices now until husband can get a better job.

Maybe you get a better part-time job or start working full-time, then you'll start to get some breathing room. >> Yeah. Because if you're paying $2,000 for child care full-time, but you're only working part-time, like is there some shifts there just to save some money, just to get any level of traction?

guys are from a high cost of living perspective, um, I think the number one thing is going to be income, Samantha, for you guys. And you know, and it's easy for us to be like, "Yeah, just go ahead and move." move, but you both are from there, which I guess assumes all your family's there. Like, I get that's a big deal. You know what I mean? And so, >> Hawaii to Colorado is a pretty drastic change. >> And moving isn't free. That's going to cost you just to make that giant move.

And you need to make sure you have the income to support Colorado, which not a cheap state to live in if you live in one of the major cities. >> I was going to say Denver is expensive. So, >> Salt Lake City is expensive. >> Yeah, that's in Utah. >> I know. The whole area, it's like anywhere you go out there, these major cities, you think, well, it's the Midwest. >> Those areas are wild. Yeah. No, 100% 100%. But yeah, that $2,000 extra that

you guys have, and when I say extra, there's still stuff to to be paid with it. But I would just I mean, hunker down

as much as you guys can, you know what I mean? Like, where can you cut cost? Um, and live in the reality of the numbers that you're in. I think that's the biggest thing. And you guys are doing that, but it still sounds like you're struggling, which means to me a lot of it is either some of this 2,00 who knows, you know, where it's going. But the biggest the biggest gap to me is income. If you're both working, I mean full-time and a part-time, I would be uh maybe looking for something else.

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Kelsey in Georgia.

My mother-in-law gifted silver coins to my husband and I several times over the last few years. We sold the first batches to pay off our debts. She made us promise to keep the last and final batch for when the Sounds like me. For

when the dollar has lost its value in a post optalic world.

>> Wow. >> Currently, silver spot prices are doing very well. And I've been pushing my husband to sell so that we can fully fund our big emergency fund and start investing. He does not want to disobey his mother, but he also is extremely worried about our retirement years. We are in our late 40s and have less than $100,000 in $100,000 in retirement. What

should we do? >> Well, I'll tell you this. There is a much higher chance you will retire broke than there is you're going to need to cash in your silver in the uh apocalypse. So, that's just one man's opinion. I can't prove that to you. Um I

think me mom was very sweet to uh gift you these silver coins, but you're grown adults. You get to choose what you do with the money. And at the heart of this, she's trying to help you guys.

That's the heart of it. She wants to make sure that you're taken care of, that you've got the money you need when you need it. And right now you need it.

This is going to help you to start investing so that you can build exponential wealth with compound growth instead of hanging on to your debts, not having an emergency fund. So if it's me,

I'm I'm going to say sorry, mother-in-law. >> Well, and I would say if she's I don't know if she's given them to you yet because she said she gives them to you every several years. Um that maybe if she says don't you if I give these to you, you cannot sell them. And I would probably just out of respect say, well, if this is a gift, we may choose to do

what's best for our family if we need to. So just like, do you know what you mean? Like maybe there's like a nod to

or I don't know if you owe someone that.

I don't know.

>> I don't know what denomination they grew up in and what they think's going to happen post-apocalypse. That's a whole another story. You know, where are they at on the on the left behind spectrum?

>> Pre-trip, post trip, where are you?

Yeah. No, I I mean, yeah, I think you're

an adult and I don't like a gift with strings attached. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it just feels weird that she's like still controlling the gift after it's been given. >> And we don't know how much this is.

And she did say it sounds like they have the final batch. They just don't want to sell it cuz they promised her they wouldn't do it until the end of the world, which at that point, how good is your silver coins? You know what? What's that going to do for you?

>> It's always that that's what I always feel like with gold people.

>> Yes. You're like going to go for supplies and actual things, not like little bags of coin. I've got more deer

a deer so we can eat so we can eat.

>> Get some deer meat in a deep freezer with a generator. You'll be way better off with silver coins.

>> Where's the looney when you need him? He would crush this. >> He would love it. Love it. >> He'd be like, "I'm with mother-in-law." >> I always think if you had to have like a small group of people to survive something, if it was like end of the world, who who would you have? Because they have to contribute. Oh yeah.

>> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. So you're saying I'm useless? >> I would say you and I are useless, George. I don't know. >> Does entertainment value, camaraderie, does that mean nothing to you guys?

>> Just a good community. Just like keep the keep the vibe good.

>> Keep the morale up. That's a big deal.

>> Deloney brings the deer meat.

>> Yeah. >> Ken will play pickle ball. I think Jade and Deloney would be our saving gra.

>> I think they would help out a lot.

>> Oh man, thanks for the question.

>> Ryan is in Charlotte up next. What's going on, Ryan? How can we help?

>> Ryan, are you with us?

>> Uh, yes. Can you hear me now? >> Yeah. What's your question? >> Okay, awesome. Um, well, I appreciate you taking my call. I hope you guys are doing well today. Um, do you want me to get straight to the question or do you want a little bit of a backstory that leads up to the question? >> What's your What's your question? Let's just hear that first and foremost.

>> Um, I am about to be going through a separation. Um >> Oh, I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, I appreciate it. Um, my my wife uh

doesn't want anything to do with my business. Um, she wants a a payout of

150,000 to walk away. Um, and I have a

couple different options. I'm not sure which what's the best. Um, I can give her all of my IRA, which will cover most of it, and then I can refile the rest.

>> How did she get to 150,000? Was that was that within I have you guys gone through

>> uh lawyers and attorneys and that's what you after the assets are divided like what how where is this number coming from? >> Uh we have yes um that's basically um

half the equity in our home and property. >> Okay, gotcha. >> Uh she started out at wanting 60 and then she wanted 80 and then she wanted 100 and then you know which is fine. I mean you know we're married she's entitled to have you know regardless of the situation but um >> who's keeping the house?

I I am trying my best to because it the

land was given to us by some of my family in which we turned around the following year and we built a you built a house on it. Okay. Um >> so to to get her out um the like the 150

is the equity her remaining half of the equity in the home. >> That's correct. That's correct. Yes.

Yes. Um and of course the land ties on

to the rest of our our family's property. So, >> sure. >> I I don't want to sell it, but I'm afraid I may have to if I don't give her

my full IRA.

>> Um, which >> Could you take could you um Is the house

How much is left on the house to pay off? >> Um, like 145.

>> Okay. >> Have you considered a cash out refi on the house to give her the money?

>> Um, I have. The only issue with that is

um I have recently sold a company that I started back in 2019 and I've started a

new company and I don't I from what I've

been hearing I'm I'm going have a hard time getting getting a big refi because

I don't have um >> proof of income for a long enough period of time. >> Yeah. >> How much cash do you have? Like if you liquidated anything nonretirement, how much could you come up with?

Um, I mean, I've got a couple pieces of

equipment. Um, I without touching our

savings, which she also wants half of that. Um, I could probably come up with 4550,000, but then that's going to that's going to hurt me from a continuing a continuing on business with

Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it just to see even if you don't have fees with this IRA transfer, if you do a direct IRA transfer, that's going to be way better than just, you know, withdrawing that money.

>> Yeah. I've >> So, if she's wanting straight cash, don't do that from your retirement.

>> Yeah. You want straight cash. You don't really want it any other way >> because that's going to crush you. That's like taking out a loan at, you know, 35%.

>> Exactly. Yeah. I've got I've got 113,000 in my IRA. I know it's not much, but after everything she'll be getting like 72, >> but then you're restarting from zero and losing all of that growth on 100. If you plug that into a investment calculator over the next 20 years, you're not giving her 113 grand. You're giving her a million plus. >> Yeah. And my my guy says in 30 years by

the time I'm I'm 66, it'll be roughly about 2.3 or so. >> Exactly. And so I would I would be working with with your attorney to fight against this >> and make sure that we do this in a smart way that doesn't destroy you for the rest of your life because that's what it sounds like she's trying to do. I don't know. >> Well, no. No, she's not being >> She just wants half of it, you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's not She's not being mean about it or anything. She just wants half of, you know, half of the >> Right. I mean, that's that is the >> In that case, I would sell the house, man. I know it hurts. >> I know, Ryan. I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. financially on mathematically it makes way more sense to let go of the of the house >> the sentimental values tougher for sure.

Um >> yeah. Yeah, it is. And I mean I I've I've definitely thought about that and I'm I'm not you know 100% against it. I just know that when I do sell that property. Um >> how much do you make a year?

>> Um with the new business um which which

I've only been doing for a few months, I've been netting like 10,000 a month.

>> Okay. I would also see if you could work out like a structured pay. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You don't want to you don't want to go on forever and ever paying her, but I wonder if there's ways that you can liquidate some stuff, give her a little bit of a lump sum and then be paying her

some. You know what I mean? To be able to do both if you can. But I would sell the house before cashing out the IRA just from a mathematical standpoint.

>> Man, but that's really hard, Ryan. I'm sorry. That's the heartbreak of divorce.

It's a it's a relational obviously complete >> turns into a messy business transaction.

>> Yes. And then all of it. So so sorry you guys are going through this.

Here

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And number three, is an online will legally valid? Yes, but it's got to be state specific to match the laws of your state. And finally, why would I want an online will versus going traditional uh you know, with a lawyer in person? Well, it's less expensive, more convenient, takes less time to set up than a traditional will. So, go to ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. Jim is in Denver up next. Jim,

welcome to the show.

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um, so my wife is considering a career change, but we've been trying to decide if it makes sense and if it's worth it. Uh, she makes about $85,000 now working in project management for philanthropy, and she's interested in going into midwiffrey. Uh, it would mean her potentially not being able to work for a couple of years, so lost income, but she potentially would make more on the other side of that.

Where are you guys at financially? What do you make?

>> So, I make about 205,000 a year.

>> Awesome. >> Um, we're in baby step four, five, and six. Uh, so we have six months saved and we don't have any debt. Uh, we just bought a house about a year ago, so we don't have a huge amount of equity in our house.

So, it does feel like we'd need to, it would be a a stretch to to make it on one income for that time and tightening the budget and I'd need to, you know, sell some stock and things to to be able to uh cash flow it. But it does seem possible. It just feels like something where you know getting up that income over that two and a half to three years and then um you know but potentially making >> 60,000 more a year on the other side of that is kind of what we're trying to weigh.

don't know the answer to this. That's why I'm asking you when she goes to school for that to be a midwife is it

from a schedule perspective she can't work at all?

probably for part of it she'd be able to work, but for some of it probably she'd not be able to work. It's it's full-time for at least I think for maybe the first year of it she could probably work, but there'd be like a two-year gap or so where she wouldn't be able to work to my understanding so far. >> Okay. Because she probably has to do to get the certification, I guess, is is what she's going for, right?

>> Just a heavy heavy study load and labs and >> spending time in a clinic and that sort of thing.

So right now it looks like the program itself is like about 50,000 and then there'd be some prerex you would have to do. Um so I think all told like conservatively we're thinking like 70,000. Um so it's 70,000 and then plus

the lost earnings for at least probably about two years >> and you guys can cash flow that >> I believe. So I think it'd be tight but I think we can cash flow it. And I think we we have some I have some stock I have

through work that I think I can sell as I go that I think I could use to pay for it. >> Okay. Um >> so it's like that there's the tradeoff of like that could also be going towards wealth building and she could just keep her current job. But I think this is something where >> she wants she just done with project management.

Her heart's not in it.

>> I I think she if she found a different job she could still enjoy it. her current job she's really not enjoying right now. And so it's it's really she's kind of said, I I know I want to leave the job I'm in right now. Maybe I'd go someplace else and I'd make more money and enjoy it more and be fine and don't need to do this. But this does feel like maybe it's good time to reconsider her career options and think about it.

>> Okay. Well, the only thing I don't like

about the equation is just that she's running from something she doesn't like to something new. um versus if because

you from what you just said and again correct me because if this is her passion and this is what she wants to do is help deliver babies then I would say this is why you guys do the baby steps you know what I mean you get to like you get to make calls in your life and you get to change things and that's amazing >> um so that's just her her dying passion but what you just said kind of was I was like oh where she's like no I still like project management I just don't like my current job so if I changed jobs I probably may not want to be a midwife so I'm like Okay.

would make sense to just try that first

>> and see if that scratches the itch because you're at least getting away from what you don't like. Um, versus having to go through a two and a half year and to your point, you know, all of it. But again, I say that with a caveat, unless she says, "No, I want to be a midwife. This is what I want to do.

It's my passion. It's my love." Then I would say go for it and you guys, it's going to be, you know, a tight two years. Like I think that's great because she's doing what she loves, >> but she also loves project management. So, >> and you may not be able to ROI all the math on paper.

I can tell you're an analytical kind of nerdier guy like me and you're like, well, I want to make it make sense on paper, >> right? >> Yes.

If she stayed in her current job at her current earnings, it can pay off, but it would take like six or eight years or something and then there's risk with any new study and all that. But I get the point you're making, which is stop trying to overanalyze it. So add into your equation her joy and see where that takes it because then it just breaks the math and you go, "Well, okay, I guess screw my math.

And so I'm not worried about the finances. Now, the mortgage side, if you could sell your stocks, maybe you do a lump sum payment and recast the mortgage if the actual monthly payment is is stretching you guys, that might help you out mathematically to stomach this in

your budget. Cuz what's your mortgage payment right now?

>> Uh, it's about five >> 5,000. And your take-home if just your takehome is what?

>> Just my takehome is uh 10 and a half to 11. That's the part that scares me about >> because then your your mortgage payment is eating up about half of your take-home pay. Now, that's without, you know, your investing and health care premiums and other things. >> Well, and it's for a per it's only for a two-year period. Yes. Like, yeah.

>> To your point, can we stomach half our mortgage, you know, take-home pay being swallowed up by the mortgage?

>> Maybe. I also think the recast could help you there where you take a lump sum of, you know, 40,000 from the stocks you sell, apply it to your principal, recast it, now your payment is three grand a month. Yeah. >> 3500 a month. And I'll say it again cuz it's in my head. I'm like, this is a this is a lot of things changing and moving for the fact that she just doesn't like her current job.

>> So, >> right, >> again, I would have that conversation with her for sure. Just that >> it I mean, honestly, if she's as happy at both, it's just easier to go find another project manager job and she's still happy. You know what I >> mean? There's project managers making $150,000 >> and so if the money is the thing that's alluring of like, well, I could make more. I'd feel more valued. Let's at least explore that. Yeah. Yep.

>> But if it's just, hey, you could pay me a half a million and project management would not be it. Well, then we know.

>> Yeah. But that's not it, though. Cuz I think Yeah. So >> that's what I'm saying.

If it's just not it, no matter what the money is or what the company is. >> Yeah. But no, but she's saying she enjoys project management. She just doesn't like her current job.

So >> there's 17 things I can enjoy. So it's just like we can't just flippingly jump from thing to thing. Make >> That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

So >> make it a hobby. Maybe she becomes a doula on the side and it's not going to pay as much, but she still gets to be a part of the process and and support, you know, moms and that could be a cool thing. So maybe there's other avenues to do this. >> Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. Um and I would make all these changes and all of what we're talking about, it's just a lot of work and time

if it's not the thing that she's just dying to do, if she would still be content doing project management with another company. So, I would push on that. >> Make sure it's the dream and brings the joy before going in on the adventure.

>> 100%. That's a great way. >> And then stop doing the math because you probably won't work it out. >> Yeah. How old are you guys, Jim?

>> Uh, we're both 37.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Perfect. So, if she even waits a year, but by the time she's 40, 41, she still gets to do this. That's why I'm a little bit tempted for her to just find something else and see if she still enjoys project management at somewhere else cuz she may may love a company and

um and that be fulfilling to her and and

that she's great and content, you know what I mean? Um >> right. >> So, I don't know.

>> Either way, I think we're on our eat, Pray, Love journey here, trying to find the next thing for her and I'm very hopeful she'll find it. She's got a great husband who's very supportive.

You've got a great career. You guys have done a great job financially to set yourself up to have this kind of flexibility, to have the options, to do something that it doesn't make sense on paper mathematically and yet you can still go, "Yes, we're doing this." That's financial peace. >> Yep. I think whatever she's feeling the most where she wants to be.

>> So Rachel, if you were going to, you know, drop this gig and go do something else, meteorologist,

>> what would you be doing?

>> Uh, I would be a uh political correspondent for a solid.

>> Yeah. What about you? >> Anything that doesn't require me to go back to school. That is I think I just I'm not studying again.

>> I will not purchase a textbook for some insane price. I will not sit in a classroom. >> I'm with you. >> I don't want to turn in a paper. >> Nothing wants me to be like, "Oh, I want to go back and get a MBA." I'm like, I'm

good.

Our

scripture of the day. Proverbs 13:11, "Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow." One of my favorites.

Milton Freriedman said, "Nobody spends somebody else's money as carefully as he spends his own." That'll preach, Milton.

>> Well said, Milton.

>> Jenna is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Jenna, how can we help today?

>> Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Um, thank you guys for all you do. Um, so my husband and I are pretty new in discovering the

uh Dave Ramsey way and learning about paying off debt. So we have quite a

large amount of debt. We've processed

it. We've gone through the emotions as far as having that much debt and probably mistakes that we have made. Um, we have between mortgage, uh, student

loans, cars, we have over a million dollars. So really what we've been currently doing is just trying to >> Would you say a million, Jenna? Did you say a million?

>> Over a billion. Yes. Between mortgage, student loan. >> Okay.

>> Cars, everything. >> Um, >> so what we've been doing is we've been

doing like uh $500 a week into our high yield savings account. Just really trying to save while trying to pay off

bills, but we just don't know.

I guess we're not sure what to do >> as far as how can you um >> can you how much is the mortgage of the million?

>> It is 525. >> 525. So it's half of it. Okay. So what's the rest? The rest is consumer. So half a million in consumer debt. What does that consist of?

>> So 4475 is my husband's student loan.

>> Whoa. Doctor, lawyer?

>> He is. Yes, he is a physician.

>> Physician. How much does he make a year?

So he currently makes 250.

>> Okay. How much do you make?

>> I make 70.

>> Okay. Is his income

pretty steady there or is he see like how how long has he been out of medical school?

>> He has been out of medical school 10 years now. So we've made the mistakes

big purchases, things like that. So we've practiced that. So now we're trying to see kind of how to tackle everything. >> Okay. Well, so so it's it's basically a student loan and a mortgage is what you're saying. >> Yes. Oh, he also we have 26 left on his car >> and then a car. Okay.

>> And then we've been working on getting the credit cards down. So we may have a,000 to 2,000 on the credit card. So that could easily be >> um done here shortly. Um so that's really not the concern. >> Where is your savings at? You said you've been putting 500 a month towards high yield savings. How much do you have in there? >> Yes. So, we are currently at 74,000 in

our high yield. >> 74,000.

>> Good job. Okay. Well, great. Well, that's going to be cleaning up all this stuff. So, tonight I would pay off the credit card and the car >> with that. >> Are you going to do that, Jenna?

>> Or is he going to do that? >> Yeah, we are. I mean, we we weren't sure

to just completely deplete that to pay off the debt cuz >> Yeah, since you're new to this, let's just recap so we're we're clear on on understanding the baby step. So baby step one is a $1,000 starter emergency fund. You guys have long surpassed that, which is great. And then baby step two is to attack all of your consumer debt using the debt snowball method.

So smallest to largest balance, ignore the interest rates, just attack the little one with a vengeance, make minimum payments on the rest.

>> Okay? But the good news is that clears a bunch of debts and a bunch of payments for you guys, >> right? I guess the next question is because my husband, he's kind of on the opinion just let's just throw everything into savings and do minimum on the student loans and the mortgage because I guess that's just overwhelming at those numbers or do we stop the savings and just >> stop all savings? You'd even stop all investing.

So if he has if you either of you have a company retirement account you're putting money into even for a match, just pause.

>> So, here's here's what's crazy, Jenna.

So, here I just want to give you a little picture, okay? If you guys went all in and actually did the baby steps, the way we teach, you do exactly what we

say. Okay, that means from what I'm gathering from the car and the credit card, it's 28,000 for what you guys have

saved. Um, basically, if you you'll have

45,000 left in savings. You throw that at the student loan, you'll have four $435,000 left of the student loan. What you guys make 340 a year. If you guys lived, and I'm going to give you a kush number, and I don't even want it to be this much. If you lived on a $100,000 a year, which I want you to live on even less, then that means you guys could could literally put $240,000 towards the student loan every single year, you guys could have this paid off in two years.

>> Two two years, Jenna. Year and a half.

you actually lived on like 70,000. Do what? >> I said we get overwhelmed when we run the numbers ourselves. So, hearing you say >> the problem is you guys are attempting to do a lot of good things all at once instead of just putting all of your focus and intensity toward those debts using the debt snowball. And Rachel's right. I mean, we're talking 24 maybe

maybe two and a half years max. You're done totally with >> you're done totally. And then the other crazy thing which again I want you to still after that I want you to build up an emergency fund and invest and all of it but I mean if you guys lived on $100,000 you guys could have your house paid off in another three years.

wonderful lifestyle nice house nice car.

>> Yeah. Everything's been great and and and if you want to keep myself.

>> Yeah. And if you want to keep paying minimum payments on the student loans and all of that stuff, you will be exactly where you are in five years.

Nothing will have changed. Nothing will have changed. So unless you want a different outcome, you have to do something different. And so I mean, man, if I was y'all in a heartbeat, in a heartbeat, I would do this.

>> And I'm giving you a hundred grand to live on. So >> very generous. >> Very generous. I would even go less. I would I would try to do 70 or whatever, right? So, um I mean seriously, if you guys go scorched earth, you could have you could be completely debtree in four and a half, five years. >> I love this plan. There's a lot of hope in this situation if you follow the baby steps. >> Yes, absolutely. >> All right, let's squeeze one more in here from David in Salt Lake City.

David, get right to the question if you could.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Um I just had a quick question. Um, we've got 69,000 left on

our home that we purchased in 2017

and we have the cash to pay this now, but my question is, should we pay it

now? I I understand like I I want the peace from having it paid, but from a tax perspective, we're kind of in this tax game of like um trying to avoid

paying a bunch of taxes this year because the business did really well.

So, I'm wondering if I should pay this now or wait until like the beginning of the new tax year and if that would be advantageous. >> Call me stupid, but I don't understand what the tax purpose is of waiting to pay off your home.

>> So, if we if we spend that uh or put that 69,000,

it's counted as taxable income if I'm

not correct. Whereas, put that in like a 401k or something. That way it's not t

it's tax deferred. >> Is this money in savings right now?

>> Yeah, it's just in a in a a checking. So

we have a high yield savings and then we have a checking where it's just sitting.

>> You're not going to be taxed on that.

>> You're you're taxed in a high yield. But that's I mean >> if you were like selling off an asset and you had capital gains, there would be taxes. But if you're saying this money is already liquid in a checking or savings account, pay off the house today. It's not going to affect your taxes.

>> Sorry. It's in my business checking. So, it's not like taxable income yet, I guess. >> I mean, if that money sitting in your checking tax >> I mean, are you going to itemize deductions?

It I don't think this is going to affect your taxes. You can talk to a tax bro to double check, but I don't understand how using money from business checking. It's still your money. >> Are you saying it's technically like you're going to be it's going to be earned income?

you've made an extra 70,000

>> and so you would technically >> whereas if we put 70,000 in a in our

401k or we we have like a independent

401k so we can put in a larger amount that way it's tax deferred um but yeah I I just I don't know

>> well for the taxes I mean it'd be what like eight I mean if you were to pay taxes on that 70 on that 69 yeah I mean

it'd be what like six I Yeah, I think we're this is a lot of a lot of girration. I would just pay it off and yeah, you might have some extra tax taxes on that extra income, but I

don't think it's worth just waiting till the new year. And I mean, it just feels like a some tax hacks that you're working on here. I think the peace of mind and a freed up payment will do you way better. So, that's what I would personally do. I don't worry about making too much money. I would just call it income, pay off the mortgage, and move on with my life, my friend. Way to go.

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## 263. You Can’t Win With Money Until You Decide What Matters Most | March 24, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the Front Row Seat.

Fabulous show on Ramsey Network that's blowing up. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Lacy is in Seattle. Hey Lacy, what's up?

>> Hey. So, my husband and I are kind of

looking for a little bit of an outside perspective on a situation we're having.

>> Okay. >> So, uh my in-laws, his parents, helped us with the down payment on our house.

And now we're receiving a lot of on my end unsolicited financial advice about debts

and what we're doing with our money and

I guess I just want to know how much influence I should allow them to have

in what we're doing with our finances as a unit, the two of us.

>> I don't know why they would have any.

Do you have Do you owe them Do you owe them the money back? Did they loan you the money?

>> Yeah, well, they have a weird kind of situation. They've done this with his um my husband's sister as well. They kind of use it as a business transaction with their kids. So, they'll help with the down payment on the house and in the future when the house is sold, they would get their down payment back and a certain percent of whatever

uh profit we would make on the house.

>> Oh, that was stupid. You shouldn't have done that.

>> I know. >> That's horrible.

What an abusive mess.

>> Yeah. >> How much money did they give you?

>> They put $300,000 down on the house.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. >> And how much is your mortgage?

>> Uh our mortgage is about 2650

monthly. >> So you borrowed 250,000?

>> Yeah, uh we borrowed it from them about

the 3000 300,000 that they put down.

>> Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't think it I didn't think that was a loan. I thought it had to only be repaid at sale. Are you paying payments to them?

>> No, we're we're we're not paying payments to them. >> Okay, do you have a mortgage in addition to them?

Other than other than the in-laws, do you have a mortgage?

>> No. >> Okay. So you they paid cash for this house. So you bought a $300,000 house.

>> The house is uh worth $800,000.

And they put 300 down for us.

And we are paying the remainder of the

mortgage. >> So you have a mortgage other than the in-laws, a $500,000

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

And your household income is what?

>> Um it's about 80,000

between the two of us. My numbers fluctuate a bit, but my husband's is 50k

and mine's about 30.

>> So you also bought a house you can't afford.

>> Yeah. I mean >> Your payment is Your payment's what? 30% or 40% of your take home pay, right?

>> It's about that, >> Yeah.

You guys are not going to do anything I tell you to do, I can tell.

Um but um >> We can just do >> You you bought a house that you can't afford and you bought it on terms with the in-laws that are absolutely cray-cray

ridiculous.

And you've got a mortgage you can't afford. So that you're you're not going to do this, but what you should do is sell the house.

And you get out of both problems, the mortgage you can't afford and the in-laws that you can't afford.

>> And this this was kind of sold to us on in like a dreamscape, like we'll we'll

do this for you guys so you guys can stay in town. They want us close to them. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

>> We're going to help you. >> You can't afford the house.

That's not a dreamscape, that's a nightmare. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> It's a nightmare.

You're broke and they helped you get broker.

They helped you I bet they co-signed on this loan, didn't they?

>> Yeah. Well, it's technically a lease-to-own situation until we start >> It's in their name?

>> The house is in their name?

>> Yes. >> Honey.

Okay. So um Mom and Dad, we don't want the house. We can't afford it.

We're you know, so we need to put the house on the market so you can get your money back out.

Cuz we can't we can't pay this.

>> And what if they don't want to do that?

How do we >> It's their problem cuz you can't afford it.

>> Right. >> Yeah. But you're not going to do that cuz your your husband's told He's totally bought into this crazy family.

It's dysfunctional. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He's He's totally on You Yeah. These people are not a blessing, they're a problem.

I don't know what to tell you, honey, but if I were you, I would get out of that as fast as like my hair was on fire. There's just everything everything you every time you you bury the lead to start with, you didn't buy a house.

Hello. You're renting a house.

And your landlord is interfering in your personal life. Well, no duh.

These people like control. They got their fingers in everything.

>> Yeah, I mean, it this is again, parents don't do this stuff, please.

>> You're not being a blessing, you're being a blight. >> It's it's it's absolutely right. You're trapping this poor couple. By the way, the whole house was just a carrot to get

them to stay locally. And that's the real freaky scary thing here. And this is tough for her because if husband doesn't step up, she's stuck. >> He's not going to step up. He's not going to step up. He's He's got to rewrite the script in his mind that his parent his parents who are such philanthropists are actually a curse.

>> Yeah. >> And he'd have to rewrite his script to be to be able to sell this house, and he's not going to do it. And and instead, what's going to end up happening is this is going to end up in divorce or bankruptcy or both because this is not going to end well.

It's not going to end well.

This is these numbers are horrendous.

And so So, here's an idea.

Don't accept gifts that aren't really gifts.

Number one. Number two, when you buy a house and it's not in your name, you didn't buy a house. Someone else bought a house.

Hello. Number three, rent to own is not

owning, it's renting.

Okay? I mean, let's just use the words the way they're supposed to be used and and and get it out from under dreamscape.

Shoot me.

Oh my god.

There's nothing good about This is such a dysfunctional mess.

The poor girl, bless her heart. Oh man, I can't even imagine. The last thing I want to do with my kids is to put this many wedges in between me and them. And because I got to tell you where I was on Saturday afternoon, I was sitting on my daughter's back porch eating hamburgers that my son-in-law cooked and everybody was there. All the kids, all the grandkids, all 16 of us were back there and we had no discussions like this. >> Right. >> At all. >> That's true. >> None. None ya. None ya.

I don't even get to choose what where we're having dinner. I just have to go where I'm told. >> That's exactly >> So, I mean >> That's the truth. >> It's not It's not even close to me having control of that. Wow.

Scary crap. Scary crap. People don't do

scary crap with your kids and then expect them to be hanging around with you loving grandpa.

It's not how it works.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, "Just fix it." And they did. We got NetSuite. That was years ago

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Jason's in Las Vegas. Hi, Jason. How are you?

>> I'm doing well, sir. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I'm having a little dilemma. Um, I have some money saved, and I was thinking of potentially taking out an auto loan. Although, I had just had a car last year that I was able to sell for positive equity, and I used that positive equity to buy a motorcycle.

But, now that I'm situated where I'm in Las Vegas, the summer's right around the corner, if not here. It's starting to heat up. I definitely need to get a car with air conditioning because riding around is kind of killing me, and I'm sweating a lot. But, I also don't want to fall into a trap where, you know, I'm stuck with a car payment because I'm not a huge fan of payments. I try to minimize them the best I can.

>> How old are you? 22?

>> I'm 32. >> 32? Really? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

Wow. All right. And what do you make a year, sir?

>> Uh anywhere from 45 to 55,000.

>> What do you do?

>> I'm in the hospitality industry.

>> Okay. In Vegas, no kidding. Okay.

Um all right.

Well, um you're obviously new to our stuff and to this show.

Um we teach people the shortest method

to wealth is to get out of debt and stay out of debt because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. If you take the average car payment of $700 a month and then you invested that from age 32 to age 67,

uh you'd have over $7 million. That's what the car payment costs you.

And if you want to ensure that you stay at the middle-class level or lower of wealth, uh keep a car payment your whole life. And that will that will make sure that you stay there. And so that's, you know, that that's the framework that you walked into with this question. Um and so what is the motorcycle worth?

>> Um I would say anywhere from 4 to 5,000.

>> Okay. All right. And I'm assuming you have no I'm assuming you have no money.

>> Well, I have about 12 to 13,000 saved.

>> In what?

>> Just bank account. And then I do have a small like IRA, but I don't I had to

withdraw a lot of it during the COVID pandemic, so it's not as much as it was

before, but I'm slowly trying to build it back up. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, um I mean you had your little run with the motorcycle and it worked out for a while and then the heat comes up in Vegas and it's time to get a air conditioner. That's logical. Makes sense. You kind of knew that was coming.

You If you didn't see it coming, there's something wrong with you.

Um it gets hot there in the summer. And so uh the uh what what I do if I were in your shoes giving you the outline I just gave you, the best way to build wealth is to avoid payments and you need an air conditioner, I would sell the motorcycle. I'd take 5,000 of my 12,000 and I'd buy a $10,000 car for cash.

And have no payments. >> actually. >> Yeah, pretty good idea. That's why I have a show. Yeah.

>> Or my other idea was just thug it out

with the motorcycle and then use what I would be making if I were to take out a car loan and just invest it in an index fund and then just let it grow.

>> I'm sorry, not You mean borrow on a car so that you can invest?

>> No, no, no. I'm saying like instead of getting the car like I originally, you know, thought about doing. >> Oh, just stick it out and just be sweaty.

>> Just be sweaty and then just keep, you know, using the money like the five to $700 I would be making for that car payment and just, you know, continue >> Yeah, you're not going to have a car payment though cuz you're going to pay cash for a $10,000 car.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> Well, but then that would deplete a lot of my savings. >> Oh, deplete 5,000. You'll have 7,000 left and you got no payments.

And remember you called No payments, you can If no payments, you can actually build wealth. >> But the sweating you have to decide, am I going to tough it out with a motorcycle or do I not want to sweat very much? >> But I'm not There's no $500 car payment in the equation here. None.

No no car payment at all in the equation. Um If you're asking us, I mean, that's what I would do if I was 32 and I lived in Las Vegas and I was single and I made $45,000 a year.

Um I'm getting an air conditioner to start with and I'm, you know, >> And then build the emergency fund next.

>> Yeah. >> Right? >> And then and then I'm going And then I'm going building some wealth, and you know, work more, make more.

>> Work more, make more. What's the path to six figures, you know, in hospitality?

Or if it's not the path there, you don't want to be in hospitality, decide what is it that I want to do, and start to get very intentional at 32.

Um the good news is you've avoided a lot of crazy debt at this point. Bad news is you don't have a plan, and we do have a plan. So, welcome to the show and the baby steps, but uh uh all you got to do is walk this out, you know. >> What what you're going to be have trouble doing because you've done a lot of stuff um in your life to date on a whim, on impulse, is you're going to have trouble avoiding impulse if you don't set this in stone right now and say, "I am not going into debt, and I'm going to go pay cash for a car." You're going to wander onto a car lot, and some Porsche is going to wink at you, and you're going to leave with an $800 car payment.

That's what's going to happen. She she's going to flirt with you, and then you're done. >> Yeah. >> Uh so, you've got to be careful.

Uh it's happened to me.

I'm I can't I can't walk by a nice car. They're hard they're hard I like I love a good car, but um yeah. But it's it it'll kill you. It's the biggest thing that we all buy in America that goes down in value.

And they go down in value like a rock. A new car loses 70% of its value in the first 4 years.

That's turning 30,000 bucks

into you know, just a few thousand dollars in a heartbeat.

And um I mean, think about it. It how fast I mean, they go down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy got that, like a rock. And so, I mean, it's just crazy, y'all. And you just you got to be careful with these things. They're cars are something you consume only when you have extra money around.

And you know, a situation like that young man's in, he does not have extra money around.

And you're right, Ken. A a whole series of intentionality moves on his part

would make the next 5 years of his life completely different. >> No question. >> We can't wander from thing to thing impulsively. It doesn't work. AJ's in Gainesville, Florida. Hi AJ, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so um I'm in my late 20s. Um we me

and my wife we bought a house uh we just closed on our first house in September.

Um and we got our first baby on the way.

She's due in May. >> Yay!

>> Yeah, so so we just finished baby step three, working on on baby step four now.

Um and so I guess my question for you is um I've been working for about the last 6 months now I've been working uh two jobs. Um my wife works full-time also. We're just trying to uh you know, grind a little bit while we can. Um and I work 7 days a week, 60 hours a week. >> What are you doing with all the money?

>> Uh saving it uh currently. Um you said we are >> You're out of debt?

>> Yes, yes. We are we are we are on baby step three right now. >> Oh, okay, good. Okay. >> Yeah. Um so my question is do we uh we're trying to decide if when the baby comes if I continue working both jobs so that my wife can stay at home um or if it's more beneficial for our family uh for me to cut that uh cut back the second job and then she goes back to work full-time as well uh and put the baby in daycare.

>> I don't think that's happening, dude.

Do you?

Uh you you see her sitting with a brand new baby in her lap going back to work when she doesn't have to?

>> No. No, not that's why we are >> Yeah. Yeah, our our our our um you know, the debate is >> But you bought a house you can't afford unless one of you unless you work two jobs or she works one.

>> No, no, no, sir, not at all.

>> Okay, so what's the Why can't both of you Why can't both of you quit? I mean, you go down to one job.

Can't live on your job?

>> Uh no, we need at least two incomes.

>> I know. Why? House payment, right? You don't have any debt.

>> Right.

>> So, you bought a house you can't afford on your income.

>> Right, yeah. Cuz we we saw this household income, so yeah. >> Yeah. So, there's a third option.

You know, you know, all right, we can't live here, but I can work 40 hours, and you can stay home. And we have to live someplace else.

That's another option.

Mhm.

You're making choices.

You're working to buy a house is what you're working for. That's what it Not not to live, but to buy that house.

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Ashley is in Boston. Hey Ashley, what's up?

>> Uh hi Dave. Hi hi Ken.

Um thanks for taking my call today.

>> Sure, what's up? >> Um So, uh sorry if I get a little emotional, um, but uh we've been in storm and stork

mode for a year and a half and we just aren't really sure what to do next.

>> Okay. So, that means you have a baby on the way.

>> Um, well, he he's here.

>> Okay, good. >> Um >> When was he born? >> Um, he was born in the beginning of October.

>> Right, how's he doing? >> But Um, he he's having a lot of medical challenges. Um, it was a uh we both were almost lost during birth.

Um, so it's been a really difficult recovery. Uh we're both still in the hospital pretty much every week.

>> Wow. >> Um >> From what? >> So Um, there's a variety of things. For me it's a lot of physical issues, um, related to the birth and some complications. And for him there's um a variety of things, uh neurological, his um feeding and his intestines and GI. Um,

on Friday we had to go because he

stopped breathing and I found out that that's just part of his conditions. Um

So, it's uh >> So, what what do you guys I mean, you've been through hell since October?

This is not >> Uh even even the October before that, um, when I was laid off from my long-term job.

>> Mhm. >> Um, so it's it's been a yeah.

It's been a while. >> Yeah, so what does your husband make?

>> Um, he has a full-time job and side

hustles and his full-time job is sales and so he makes at least 55 a year.

Um some months we're up to 8,000 from

his income alone.

Um and then side hustles >> Mhm. >> a lot of um reselling and um he does

Lizard things and dump things like that as well. >> Okay. All right.

And so since October you've been down for the count for sure. I mean you're just trying to >> Yeah. >> try try to heal and and get baby healed and and get back to some level of normal, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And what did you used to make back in the day?

>> At my previous long-term job, I made

65,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> And then um the job that I started before I went on maternity leave, um I was making a It was estimated to be

about 40,000 a year.

>> Okay. And the um And how much debt have you guys got?

>> Um well, we currently have

um I'm sorry, is it okay if I break it down by like credit cards and stuff?

>> Sure. Sure. >> Um any credit cards totals based on the credit report, it's about 30,000. Um I'm

reaching out to request details um as a lot of them have been sold off to debt collectors. >> Mhm. >> We have a car that we owe 12,300

on. The online payoff amount shows 12,200.

I think most of the interest was front-loaded. >> Mhm. >> But it's worth about 6 to 8,000 private party sale due to um damage and mileage.

>> We have a home. Um our debt on the home

is uh just under 347,000.

>> Mhm. What's the house worth?

>> selling Um, we had it listed >> Mhm. >> and the only interest that we had was

um, for under 370,000 and they wanted us to cover >> What did the real estate agent think the house was worth?

>> Um, he thought it was worth 369,000.

>> No. >> a older home with a >> No, the only interest you had was at 370.

What did you have it listed at?

>> to 375. >> Okay. All right. Okay.

So, you don't have much equity. Okay.

All right. So, what I'm always looking at when I'm in a situation like you're in is there are some things I can't control and there are some things I can control.

And I get anxiety mostly not from the things I can't control but the things I can and I'm not.

And so, what I'm starting to look at is, okay, what can I what can I control in this situation? What can you do? You can't control the baby's health. That's up to God and the doctors, right?

You can't control your health exactly other than the things you have to follow the doctor's directions on in both cases, the baby and you, right?

And that's okay. That's okay. It's not good. It's not fun. But that's that's not that's not anything you can do about that. You can't wave a wand and, you know, fix that. Agreed?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's going to take a minute. Give yourself a little grace and give yourself time time to heal. And so forth. Your Your sounds like he's an excellent man. I love this guy. He just What did he do?

He went to work and made sure his family had money.

Wow. >> He goes above and beyond. >> Yeah, he does. I like this guy a lot.

He's a good man.

All right, cool.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were going to make another point. I Well, listen, this is all you can't control is his effort, right? So, he's going to keep working. Can he get better paying gigs?

We're selling everything. We're going to try to whittle this thing down and get some momentum. Right now, with all the health stuff, uh it has exacerbated all of the financial stress. And Dave just did a great job of of really laying this out.

You've got to make that switch uh to the best of your ability, mentally and emotionally, to focus on what we can control. So, how can we begin to chip away? We're upside down in the car.

We need the car. Uh so >> It's not out of control. >> It's not completely out of control. That's doable.

So, really, how do we begin to get some real momentum uh through additional income, doubling down on the budget, making sure that we are only doing what we have to do right now. And uh you know, your husband again is doing the right thing and staying with it. I'd like to see his income get a little higher in that sales role. Uh I'd like to see him approach six figures in a sales role.

And so, maybe maybe that's what he's looking for. I know he's working like a crazy man right now, and we admire that.

That's what I would be trying to do. >> Yeah, and talk >> Talk to a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and have someone else come and look at this house and, you know, consider if that's going to work or not.

I don't know if it's going to work or not. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of room there, but if the house payment's bothering you and you can get way down on house payment. So, here's the thing. If you can retreat back to safety, >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Give yourself room to heal.

One thing's for sure, it'd be very unusual, and I've been doing this a long time sitting in this thing. I can't think of a single case that I've worked with that 10 years later you're in exactly the same spot with your health.

>> Yeah. That's true. >> I mean, you're you're not going to be the same spot with your health 10 years from now. So, this is a as you said, a rough patch.

It's not a destiny. It's not a It's not the prescription for your whole life. So, you guys keep scratching and clawing and then the sun will start to come out and then there'll be a light at the end of the tunnel that's not a train, finally.

And uh but in the meantime, you've been through a hard time.

And hey, we're with you. I I'm with you.

I'm I think your emotions are real and I would have them, too.

So, keep pushing. Keep pushing. But, also give yourself a little room to say, "If we don't make any progress right now other than healing, that's probably okay for right now."

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Hannah is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Hannah. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I'm renting an apartment to a former co-worker of mine and originally it started out where I was trying to help her out um get her back on her feet. She was going through a breakup and she had two kids and they were going to be homeless.

And now it's to the point where I'm wondering if I'm just enabling her poor financial choices.

>> How How long has this been going on?

>> Uh 2 years. She's been there almost 2 years. >> Okay. Well, at what point was she supposed to get back on her feet?

>> Well, that's a good question. Um right now I'm charging her 750 a month in rent and that's including all her utilities.

Um it should The apartment should be about 1,200 a month in rent.

>> Mhm. >> Um she was She was doing all right and then she was in a car accident.

Didn't have any insurance.

Um now she's got a bill a bill for that and then she got into another car with those $40 down deals.

And she's I don't know 20,000 in debt on a car that's only worth maybe 6 grand.

But she's She's paying more on her car than she's paying me for rent.

So, I don't see her getting out of the hole anytime soon.

>> Mhm.

Okay. So, instead of getting back on her feet, she dug the hole deeper.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> By not having insurance and making a bad car decision.

>> Yeah, and I just recently found out well she she missed December rent. She's caught up now, but she missed that for she was buying Christmas stuff for her kids. Then I found out that she's paying 200 a month almost to rent ca- rent couches

for her apartment.

>> Okay. >> And she only makes about 3,000 a month, I think.

>> Okay. So, So, how does How does this end?

Where does this end? When when does this end?

>> I mean, either I raise the rent and then she gets behind and I have to evict her.

Or I mean, that's that's really the only That's really the only option I see. I could ask her to leave.

I don't know how that would go. >> I don't agree with you. I think that um I think if it just keeps deteriorating, you don't even have to raise the rent. She's not going to be able to pay it.

Cuz she keeps She keeps making stupid decision after stupid decision on top of each other and they're compounding and she's going to bury herself. And then she's not going to be able to pay even your reasonable rent.

Hello? >> Hello? >> Yeah. You agree?

>> Yeah. I agree. >> You don't even have to raise the rent. This thing's going to go down the toilet eventually anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, I you know, the the question is, are we just going to stand by and watch that happen or are we going to take proactive measures on the other side one way or the other? So, >> So, I do I do have a a lease with her that's up in next March.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, I I guess she's not going to make it a year.

I don't I don't She works a seasonal job and her hours will go down midsummer.

>> What is her job? >> making as much. Um We both work in a greenhouse.

>> Okay. >> So, we That's what I'm wondering. Is there an emotional attachment you have to this person that you probably have not or would not with other people that are leasing from you?

>> Well, we used we used to work together and we don't anymore. Um That ended about 3 months ago. I no longer work with her.

So, and I also I I was living in It's a triplex. I was living there as well.

So, as long as I was there and seeing her every day, that made it harder. And I no longer live there.

So, that's really helped me have more of an emotional break.

>> Mhm. >> Emotional break from having to see her and >> Yeah. >> See her there, see her at work, and I'm I'm really >> You sounded emotional when you started talking to us. I could be wrong, but you sounded emotional. >> I'm I'm just I'm just nervous.

>> Okay. Well, you're doing great, by the way. You're doing great.

>> Uh yeah, I I I'm with Dave on this one.

I But I I would be planning I would be planning on what are we going to do when she can't pay the rent anymore so that you're not stuck with this.

Cuz this doesn't There's There's just You wouldn't do this for anybody else is the is the feeling I'm getting.

>> think that you can fix her life.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz she's choosing not to.

And you're not You're not going to fix it. If you gave her free rent, >> Mhm. >> she would screw it up.

>> No, I think if I gave her free rent, she would go rent three more couches.

>> Ah, that's what I meant. She'd screw it up. Yeah. Yeah. Or Or a hot tub for the back porch or whatever, yeah. And so >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um I think we've got to you know, you you need to sit down have a conversation with her human to human and say, "All right, we started this so that I could help you.

And here's what's happened since I started helping you.

You've gotten worse.

You rented couches.

You went around without car insurance and made a mess. And then you bought a car that you absolutely can't afford that's killing you. And so I'm thinking this is going to end poorly. Like you're going to not pay me rent and then I'm going to have to evict my friend who I was trying to help and this whole thing breaks my heart. So, you and I need to come to an agreement that says that you need to go live somewhere else.

Because I'm not a blessing to you and I want to be a blessing to you. I want to be helpful to you and I can't be that

while you're here.

>> So, maybe I should ask her to look for somewhere else before the situation gets worse. >> Yeah, like now. I was talking about this conversation happens next week.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I want her to leave now.

I want her to go buy go rent something that she can afford that's cheaper.

And um >> She can't get anywhere cheaper.

>> Yes, she can.

>> I don't I don't know where. >> I don't either. >> it >> I don't either, but it's not your job.

Your job is to remove her. That's it.

>> Well, you're right.

>> Because you're not going to This is not going to work out. It's not a loving You're not loving her by just doing nothing and letting this thing go down the drain.

If you really do care about her, help her move.

You know, I'll give you a free rent I'll give you a free month's rent or I'll refund next month's rent if you're gone by the end of the month and that'll help you get started on your new thing.

And give her $750 after she moves out.

>> Okay, I can do that. >> And and then go rent the stinking thing for $1,200 and the next time you get ready to help someone, you need to think about what help looks like.

And where this is taking us.

Because you you giving her a place to live did not keep her from being homeless.

>> Yeah. >> Hello. That did not that you know, you use that line in your head and you use it on us, but I'm not buying it.

Um She would have figured out something. She's always figured out something. And the the only way that I help someone in a situation like that is if I get down under the thing and I start going, "Okay, we're going to be on a budget.

We're going to work six jobs. There's no rental couches. There's no car payments.

We keep insurance in place and we're going to ride herd on doing smart stuff with your money." And if you do smart stuff with your money, after a little while you'll have some money. It's pretty amazing.

It's kind of It's kind of works like every time. >> Mhm. >> And when you do do stuff with money, you have no money. It works like every time.

>> It's going to ask you how do you how do you recommend people like in this situation deal with the guilt? Cuz she's a good person. The caller is a really good person, obviously trying to help out a former co-worker. >> You can't be Your job is not Jesus.

>> That's right. >> Jesus already took the job. It's his job. >> That's right. >> You're You're not You're not signed up for that and you don't have the skills for it. >> Right. >> Your job is not to fix everyone. You can't fix other people. >> Yeah. >> The only thing you can do is set up a situation where they can do something.

You set up a situation where they could do something and they chose not to do >> That's right. >> I can't make her the lady >> Yeah. >> stop doing stupid stuff. >> So a question could be did I do everything possible?

>> It's why I end the call here. >> Right. >> When someone calls and they they I tell them what to do and then they argue with me. I tell them what to do and then they argue with me.

The third time they argue with me, 100% of the time you'll hear me end the call. I am not going to try to talk you into this stuff.

And I'm going to just watch it happen. I am and I go home with no guilt. I turn off the microphone, get in my car, drive home. I don't even remember you called. Cuz I It's not my job to fix your life.

My job to help you, show you how you fix your life. You're the hero in the story.

I'm not the hero.

I'm just a guy on the sideline showing you what to do. I'm Yoda teaching you how to swing the lightsaber. If you choose not to get in the fight, I can't help you with it.

>> Yeah. >> You know, you got to step into the force yourself. I can't do it for you and she can't do it for her friend. >> Yeah. >> And just giving her a place to live and calling that oh, she would have been homeless otherwise. No, she wouldn't.

That's bull crap. She She wouldn't either. She might have had a hard patch and then worked it out, but you you got to stop doing the stuff that you keep doing the same thing over and over again. You expect a different result. It's a definition of insanity.

And I got no guilt about to That's not being callous. It's just I It's not my job to be Jesus. He's He's got that job already taken.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jerry is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Jerry.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Uh I'm I had a question for you. Um I've been I've been married for 11 months, and I I found out uh during our joint filing with my wife uh that she has 4 years of back taxes with the IRS totaling about $48,000.

And um I'm looking for advice on how to handle that.

>> Wow. That's a bummer.

So, did did she uh is she deceptive or

incompetent or both?

>> Uh without sounding derogatory, I'd probably choose the latter.

>> Incompetent.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, like it didn't it didn't occur to her that this was a problem.

>> Uh no, she thought it would fix itself.

>> Yeah. Okay. And that's why she didn't bring it up. She wasn't actually hiding it. It just was not on her radar as important.

>> Yes. >> Where you're like in freak out mode and so am I. >> Yes. >> Yeah, LIKE AH!

YOU'RE KIDDING. >> YEAH. >> HOLY JESUS!

OH MY GOD. THE IRS OF ALL PEOPLE.

UH OKAY.

SO, um

the first thing I want to pull the thread on what else don't I know that you don't think is important?

>> Agreed. And um I asked this question about 2 weeks ago when we were filing and then this kind of she came clean with the rest of it cuz I saw from 2024, the tax

year, that there was stuff that had been penalized. And I asked her about that and if there was anything else, she said no and then yesterday she brought up these other things.

>> Well, I mean, like 3 years ago I got a car repoed and I didn't bring that up.

But they're they're they're going to come to me for $30,000 one of these days.

>> Right. >> But I don't think it's a big deal. So, I thought it'd take care of itself, so I didn't bring it up. I mean, what else is out there that I didn't think was important, so I didn't bring it up?

>> Agreed. >> I really want to dig into that, and um and and uh somehow okay, so her reaction is not

It was kind of like a shrug like this is just no big deal.

Or am I missing something?

>> She viewed it as a big deal.

Thought she could take care of it herself.

>> Oh, okay. >> All right. So, what did that involve?

>> Cuz what I'm trying to what I'm trying to do is establish a relationship pattern going forward.

>> I agree.

So, well, I she brought it all to me and I you know, now I know what's on the table. We looked at her credit report to

identify anything else like you said.

So, I have a view of everything that's happening now.

I I just need need to know what what's the best plan of action? Do I pay it all as a lump sum? Do I >> Yes. If you have it, you have it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah, write a check.

Cuz the penalties and the interest you can't are ridiculous and there's no discounting with the IRS.

They they get they they they're made whole 100% of the time.

So, yeah, just as fast as you can clean it up the better. But, I really want to make sure relationally that there's nothing else out there riding. You didn't see anything on the credit bureau and I want to make sure that that we're aligned on um

this is the worst financial moment of our entire lives relationally. It never

gets any worse than this. Everything is better from here forward. We really need to both be on that page.

>> Mhm. >> Because I mean, I'm I'm scared that this could happen again if there's not a like a I don't an an acknowledgement that the how damaging this is to a relationship.

>> Mhm. >> By her. So, if that's not the case, then you guys may need to sit down for a tune-up going with a marriage counselor just to get things dialed, get some tools in both your belts to get aligned on that this is like grown-up stuff and you can't freaking ignore it and me be okay with that. I'm not going to be okay with that. And so, we have to be aligned on

that we together are know everything and

together we are aligned in on every decision going forward so that there there's never I'm never going to be surprised again the rest of my life if I'm you. I'm not okay with surprises of this type.

And so, that that Yeah, and I'm just Go ahead. >> We just we have a we have our first baby coming in 2 months, so it's kind of all falling on top of me right now.

>> Yeah. Well, and um yeah.

And so, we're negotiating with a lady in her third trimester, too. This this is just really not profitable. Um >> Yeah.

>> Well, okay. Well, at some point in this process and it may not be anytime soon given that last piece of information.

Okay? And then I'd write a check, pay it off. Because if it comes back again after you write a check and pay it off and and something else pops up or she goes and does something else and forgets to tell you because it's not important, but it is important. I can handle it myself or whatever the bullcrap narrative was on this thing, and it was bullcrap, um then then, you know, you we don't want a repeat of this.

We want to heal this broken narrative. Does does make >> Yeah, and one of the things I was going to lean into is is if you guys aren't already doing combined finances, that needs to happen today.

as we work through the relational stuff here, uh the financial stuff is also completely everything is on the table.

This is a tough feeling, you know, to have, but I I agree with Dave. Uh I'd stroke the check today. You don't want to be dealing with the IRS on this. Is And then listen, it's going to suck right in that check. Uh but it's going to suck worse not to deal with it.

>> Yeah. >> Uh and to try to string this response out with a baby on the way.

>> No. No. >> Don't do that. >> I'd take care of it immediately. I'd get on the phone with them and find out what it is and cu- clear that. But we have to make sure that there's no repeat.

>> Oh, yeah. >> That's the big thing here. And so And transparency does that. And so if you got fully transparent and then you're looking over her income and her withholding and the two of you are doing your taxes together and then there is a shortfall, then it's now your fault.

Because you're you got your fingers in there with it, okay? And to Ken's point, when you combined everything and then it still happens, then now it's on you.

So um that's the whole process. That's That's where I would go. But the the the big thing is this, financial problems are never the problem, they're always a symptom of something else going on. So you got to go down to ground and go, "What's the problem? What's causing this? And what's

causing her to not deal with this?

Family of origin, they were you know, we were shamed to talk about money. Every time we talked about money, daddy yelled, so I don't want to talk about money cuz I'm afraid you'll yell." Or I don't know whatever the bull crap is that's under there, but there's bull crap under there, I promise you.

This is crazy.

And um cuz it's

it's not $500, it's 50 thousand dollars.

That's not an oops.

Okay? 500 is an oops.

Um 50,000 is

oof oof oof bothering me. Yeah.

Man, and what what a setup though. I mean, with a baby coming in 2 months. Wow.

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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>> Beth is in Detroit. Hi Beth, how are you? >> Hi, I'm all right. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I'm calling to see if what your advice would be on selling our home family home. We've got uh four kids in order to pay off a large amount of debt.

>> Okay.

And uh so how much is a large amount of debt?

>> So, we owe 145 to the IRS, 145,000.

And then um we have 100,000 on a home

equity line of credit. And then about almost 50,000 on medical expenses and

car payments. >> Mhm. Mhm.

And what's your home worth?

>> Um we currently our mortgage is for 470 and we have an offer currently that we just got for 755. So, it would allow us basically to clear the debt and restart. But our hesitation is with our just our kids.

>> Um where did all this debt come from?

>> So, um my husband was the primary breadwinner. I was home with our kids and he got into day trading.

Um and I am guilty of burying my head in

the sand and not getting involved in our finances. So, he he made quite a bit, lost it just as quick, and then turned to credit cards.

Um and then didn't pay taxes on the capital gains he made with the trading before losing it all.

>> Okay. Um there's not capital gains on day trading. There's ordinary income on day trading.

And there's also there's also a loss you can take if you've lost money against that.

>> Okay. >> Do you really think you have the whole story?

>> So, I I'm not entirely financially literate.

This is something that I'm trying to get more involved in just in the last couple of years. Um taxes in partic- I mean >> When did When did all this happen?

>> This happened about Uh well, I I think it was happening for quite some time, but again, I kind of was burying my head in the sand, and he just came to me 3 years ago.

Um we had a major house crisis, and he said, you know, I got to come clean. We owe quite a bit of money. I cleared out our 401k. I cleared out all of our savings. >> Okay, so he's been You've been limping along with this together for 3 years with you having You having knowledge of it. >> Yes, sir. Yeah, we've been married for almost 20 years, but we Yeah, 3 years I've had knowledge of it. >> And what what does he What does he make a year?

>> He makes 180 as a base, but he's in he's

in sales, um but it's been a tumultuous and very dry couple >> And he's not He's not day trading anymore.

>> Correct. >> Okay. All right.

Okay, so your your question was interesting. You said um we would do this except for the kids.

I think you have to do it for the kids.

You have to get your life back.

For the kids. Your kids Your kid The definition of your kids having a good life is not where they live.

It's who their parents are and how they act.

>> Yeah.

>> You live in a house that's way nicer than you grew up in.

>> Mhm. >> So do I. So does Ken.

And we didn't die from that.

And it didn't malform our character from that.

>> Yeah. >> So sell it and clean up the dadgum mess.

If the problem has gone away, no more day trading, and no more deceiving, and you guys are working together on this, then he takes his 180,000 and hopefully more, 250,000 and you guys work to rebuild your lives and buy another house someday, but in the meantime, I'm going to be free, baby.

Set me free.

And I think that I think the stress level in the air of your home will go down and the children will benefit from that far more than they will having that particular set of bricks and mortar.

>> Okay, that's a good way. Yeah.

>> Yeah, I'm just going to add, just do your own research tonight on how stress affects your physical health.

It's not just the mental and emotional, we forget what it does to the body. So, I would just add, if I had the chance to fix this, and I love the fact that he came forward 3 years ago, if you guys are on the same page now, I absolutely agree with Dave. This is a reset.

A reset with with the idea though, that we never do this again.

>> Yeah, I mean, he has to say, I lost our house. >> That's right. >> This is a moral issue. I lost our home.

That's how big a deal this is, okay? By the way, I lost everything and went bankrupt because of my choices, not my wife's, all right? When I when we went bankrupt 30 plus years ago.

All right, so that's, you know, and I get to own that the rest of my life, but I also never did the things again that put me there again.

Ever again, again, again, never again.

You see? I mean, you you you say, I you know, I I lost everything. I lost I lost my home. I We did not lose our home, but we only the only reason was there was no equity in it. And so so it survived the bankruptcy, but and it wasn't that nice a house anyway, but the uh anyway, yeah, we we just said, you know, we lost everything. We get the opportunity to start again fresh and clean and uh in your case, that's

the sale of a house, in our case, it was a bankruptcy, and we're never going back here again, and we never went back there. And we from that point forward, we never I never bought anything that Sharon and I both agree to. Investments or otherwise.

And so, yeah.

Uh So, I think it's fair to say, just to outline for everybody, just to let you guys know out there, this is not a um

unique situation.

>> Yeah. >> Here's the numbers, and this is the most bizarre number I have almost ever heard in the investing world.

If you day trade for 36 months continuous, 97% of you lose money.

That's how stupid that is.

I mean, if you said 97% of the time you walk across the street, you get hit by a car, you would not walk across that street

under any circumstances. You wouldn't be the one guy that says, "Frogger, I got this." You wouldn't be that guy. You would be going, "No, that's Those are not odds I want to play." And there is something about the arrogance and pridefulness that says, "I've got the stock market figured out." If you hear someone say that, laugh at them. They are funny people. They are

statistically stupid human beings.

97% of you that day trade 36 months consecutively lose money.

Now, you need to hear that because some of you get a little fishing story where you hit a lick, and you go, "Oh, I MADE SOME MONEY." And it's just like gambling in Vegas. Now, I'm going to go back to the table, and the only part I'm going to remember is the time I won. I'm going to forget about the 16 times I lost.

And when you add it all up, you lost.

That's how they build those nice hotels in Vegas.

>> So true. >> And the same thing is true of day trading. YOU LOST.

Poor guy, poor gal, what a horrible thing they're going through. But some of you people, man, you're sitting out there with "Dave Ramsey doesn't understand." Listen, I understand. What I understand is what I What I don't understand is why you don't understand.

97, WHAT OTHER NUMBER DO YOU HAVE THIS 97% of anything ever? That's not statistically significant. That's like a fact. You're going to lose money. Oh my

god. >> Yeah. >> And it has the same trap that gambling does. Oh, it's the exact same trap cuz it's got the feedback loop.

>> Yep. >> It's the same thing as DraftKings. Same crap. Same exact thing.

That's why sports betting's gone through the roof. It's a feedback loop. A scarcity feedback loop. And um You know, our friend Michael that wrote um >> Comfort Crisis.

>> Michael Easter. His second book, Easter. His second book it talks about that a lot. And he went into great depth study on that about the the dopamine hits and and how you just keep cycling back into this thing.

arrogance that I can beat the house.

It's just It's arrogant beyond Pride comes right before you have to sell your

house because you lost everything.

>> Mhm. >> Wow.

Pride comes right before the fall.

Wow.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

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Colorado Springs. Hi Zach, how are you?

>> I'm doing pretty good. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I need to give context after the question cuz I I follow you guys and this is going to sound like I don't, but I'm wondering if I should if there's a trick to increasing some credit problems so that I can get a house within 18 months or if my credit score will go bye-bye in that amount of time.

>> Everything that we've seen that they do not publish this, but everything that we've seen in 6 to 12 months of the time you've had zero activity on any account, your credit score will disappear.

>> Okay. Are there Are there like any ways to guarantee that it does that?

>> No. >> And my my main credit issue is is a

collection debts. Those will be knocked out within a couple of months and I want to make sure nothing appears again after that.

>> Yeah. Well, the the um if you have co- if you have settled them, if they're not outstanding, there should be no more activity on the account once it's settled.

Right?

>> I believe so. I'm just I've just

I've had a couple pop up that I didn't know were even in collections.

>> Well, I can't That's why you can't make a guarantee. I mean, if you have something pop up, then the whole clock starts over, dude.

So, I mean, you can't you know, but if you've got stuff that's in collections or been in collections and you're just having to settle it, the last thing you need to do is go into debt to build your credit score to buy a house. So, you need to freaking do this in the right order, dude. I mean, listen to what you're actually saying here. It's kind of crazy. So, no, you need to clear you need to clear the debts, get to zero and zero activity,

and if it takes longer than 6 months or longer than 12 months because something else pops up, well, that's something else popping up would have screwed up your other plan, too, by the way.

If you're sitting there and the credit score is going up up up because you have a bunch of healthy accounts that you're paying on time merely to drive your credit score up and you have a collection drop in the middle of that, it goes down down down.

And so, anything you have pop up that you you know, that that unexpectedly is going to affect this either strategy negatively.

So, no, I I I I would clear everything and count on 6 to 12 months after date of last activity, you should see a a

credit score disappear, become undeterminable, and you can go to Churchill Mortgage and get a the same mortgage that someone with an 850 score can get. Same exact mortgage, but they do manual underwriting in order to make that happen. >> And I just want to point this out cuz this So, we take this call all the time.

You need to be aware that everybody you know is probably going to disagree with what Dave just said because they're uninformed. They think that you all have almost heard Dave wrong is my guess.

Because this is such a cultural thing.

So, I'm only bringing this up to say, call Zander and talk to them.

>> Churchill? >> Excuse me, Churchill. Thank you. Uh call Churchill Mortgage and walk through it so that you actually have real data

because most people that you do life with will think that either A, we're crazy or B, that you heard us wrong.

That's how systemic this credit score belief is. So, I just want to point that out that when you get off this call, you might be on the high of Okay, I know what to do. And then you tell anybody, they're going to look at you like you got horns growing out your head.

>> Tyler's in Atlanta. Hi Tyler, how are you? >> I'm doing good. How you doing, Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh yeah, so right now um I currently travel for work. Um I'm a fiber optic splicer and I make about 130,000 a year.

And my wife, we have one little boy and we have a little girl on the way. And um

I was wanting to try to move back home and my pay will probably be getting cut in half almost.

And um she's a stay-at-home mom.

And I was just going to see what y'all thought on that. >> What's the driving reason that you are even considering taking a half pay cut to move back home?

>> Being home. Being home with the kids. >> I know, but I want a little bit more on that. I know you want to What's the driving reason that would make you consider that?

>> Well, I'm gone for 5 days a week and then once a month I have to work the weekend shift. And I just want to be home with them more, be more present and

that's it.

>> Okay, so it's it's not trying to be near family to make up for the travel. It's I just don't want to be on the road.

>> Uh yeah, pretty much. I just want to be with them. >> Okay. More.

Is that your only option to take a 50% cut? >> Um probably not 50. It probably It might go from like 130 to like 70 or 80 probably. >> Doing what?

>> I'm a fiber optics blaster.

>> So you'll do the same thing.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> And how what made you Where did you get that number? 70 or 80?

>> Um well, I've just been looking at um like jobs in the area I live in and that's about the median for that.

>> Published jobs or friends telling you about stuff? >> Uh published jobs. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, so that's the median. So what is a path look like for growth? What Forget this move for just a second. If you stay in your industry, what is possible for you to get to over time if you look in the next 3 to 5 to 7 10 years?

>> Same man, it's growing pretty good. Um if I move my way up, say I go to supervisor or something like that, I could probably reach back over 100,000 a year while at home. >> Okay, what's beyond supervisor?

>> Uh probably like regional and stuff or like director. >> Okay, what's that make?

>> Uh I'd probably say well over 120.

>> Okay. Is that something you want? Why are you not eligible for that now?

>> Yeah. Well, um I'm 22 right now and I've been doing this almost 4 years.

Which I don't know if I am or not. I haven't really looked at that yet. Um

but I'm just guessing I'm probably just new too new to it and I don't really have any supervisor experience.

>> you some uh older brother advice? I actually I'm old enough to be your dad sadly. I just realized that. So here here's what I think. I think you're allowing the real raw emotion of being

away from the family, how bad your heart's hurting and that's cuz you're a good dude. You're a good dude and a good dad. Uh and I totally get it. But I think you're allowing that raw emotion to get in the way of a long-term plan. And at 22 with another one on the way. I would be thinking about the next 5 to 7 years

as clearly as I could understanding I can't control the future but I can look forward and I can go how do I want to take care of my wife and these two little ones 5 to 7 years from now.

And and if it were me I would let this sit a little bit get some more wisdom besides Dave and I some older guys in your life say hey I'm dealing with this real emotion because I think until you have a plan for what the next 3 5 7 years could look like in your industry I would not leave this job and I would let my heart hurt a little bit more cuz the babies are little one baby at home another one they don't even know you be present when you're home.

could clearly tie it to a better move long-term. I'm willing when I came to Ramsey I'm I I actually

went backwards a little bit for about a year and a half but I knew coming here

was the best long-term play.

But it was a part of the long-term.

And let me also point out I was able to do it. We made some changes financially to where we weren't scraping. >> Yeah, let me add one other thing okay.

Do not just because you saw some job listings at one price don't accept that as your destiny.

>> Right. So >> you know I don't think that you have to make less coming off the road.

I think you can make almost what you're making now but you're probably going to poke around a little bit more to find that one because you are in a wonderful trade right now and the trades are very short on help.

And I think you're probably in a stronger position than you feel like you are. You do not have to take a pay cut

necessarily to come home. It's not mandatory.

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>> Today's question comes from Adrian in Romania. I've been wrestling with whether certain ways of making money are morally right from a Christian perspective. I understand working for a salary, creating a useful product or service, or renting housing at a fair price, but I feel conflicted about things like stocks and bank deposits because they seem more indirect and harder to evaluate ethically. For example, when you buy and later sell

stock for a profit, it can feel like you're benefiting without really creating value. And with banks, you do not always know how your money is being used. Am I overthinking this, or are some forms of investing more consistent with Christian convictions than others?

Uh, yeah, I do think you're overthinking it, but I don't take a shot at you there. I think, you know, you've got a great heart. Um, I think you've got to use God-given common sense, and then also that still small voice of discernment. And I think that when it comes to just your general investing in banks you don't need to feel guilty about making money on your deposits or making money on your money market or making money on your investment strategy certainly what we teach here at Ramsey.

So I think while you're overthinking it I appreciate where your heart is and I think you just have to back off to wait a second am I in any way making money through some type of Ponzi scheme right now that is dishonesty. That is lying

and making money off of evil actions

would be your meter and so outside of that I think you're overthinking it but >> Am I bringing harm to someone?

>> Yeah that's the other thing. >> And so you know when you deposit money in a bank and they pay you interest you're not bringing harm to someone. You can't control what the bank does. Okay it's the same thing as if you go and buy groceries at a grocery store they now have your money.

If they go and do something evil with it you bought groceries.

You didn't do anything they did and so same thing with the bank if you put a deposit in a bank and they do something evil with it. Now if a bank is known for screwing people and you put your money in there well yeah you're kind of participating then. But but but just you

know if a grocery store is known for screwing people and you do business with them you're participating too. Same thing right and so you know the trick is

we try not to do business with people that have evil intent in any way because they're going to do that and that that is consistent. Now and here's another interesting one that comes up also in this thing it's stocks you know buying stock.

Now I don't want to I've heard people say from a Christian perspective that I don't want to buy stock in X company because X company might be doing something wrong.

Well if you buy stock from that company,

unless it's an initial public offering or unless it's treasury stock being sold, both of which are very unusual, but if you simply call your broker up and say, "I want to buy stock in Home Depot." Home Depot doesn't get the money.

You're not buying the stock from Home Depot. You're buying it from Ken who's selling his Home Depot stock.

It's an individual to an individual. It's like my It's like my buddy has a Chevy pickup up for sale.

And you go buy the Chevy pickup.

Chevy doesn't get any of the money.

Okay? The the it but you know, but if so

if Chevy if Chevrolet is screwing somebody somewhere or messing somebody over, you buying that Chevy pickup from another individual is not in any way funding the evil practices.

Now, you are driving around a brand that

you don't agree with, okay, but aside from that, there you know, it's a used car.

The in the new car dealer does not get any the new car manufacturer does not get any This is a used share of stock.

You know, they don't get any benefit from it at all. Now, if the if the stock goes up in value and you you you know, that benefit that while you while that because that company is doing evil things and screwing people, then you have benefited. But the actual purchase of the stock is from another individual.

And so there's nothing there and and that that's the thing. So, you have to be real careful about jotting title here the details, in other words. You have to be careful about how how far down in the weeds am I going to try to do this? And so, you know, it's um

there's almost no way that you can have any transactions in the marketplace that at some point you can't lead it back to something that you don't like.

Somewhere somehow. >> Yeah. >> But you're what you where you have to decide is, okay, how much what control

do I have and is my intent to profit off of this. So for instance, I would never buy or do business with or put money in any way anywhere near a payday lender.

They're charging 800% they're screwing poor people. Okay? So I'm not I don't want to own one of those secretly on the side that none of you know about but God would know about it, right? And so as a Christian, I'd be screwing poor people.

And I so I'm not going to have anything to do with a payday lender in any stretch any way.

And but but you know, just because the grocery store they don't get a pass either.

Because you know they sell whatever that I don't agree with in there, you know, and and you know, you can say well, there's some kind of toxic what I what I it's just you can never get to the end of this.

>> That's drive yourself crazy.

>> So I spend a reasonable amount of time saying this is God's money. Am I doing something that makes him blush?

If it does then I don't do it.

But I'm also not going to spend my entire life trying to live in a cave click lint and and avoid doing business

out here in a positive way helping people in the process and um

not enjoying the whole process. So there you go. Interesting. All right, Jamie is in Memphis. Hi Jamie, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. How about you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So my question is how do you enjoy financial peace when the majority of your net worth is money that you received like through inheritance and wasn't through your own hard work?

>> Uh do you have children?

>> No, I'm single. >> Okay. Do you will you have children someday?

>> Most likely not, no, sir.

>> Okay. All right.

Um well, I want good things for my kids.

Most people do.

And so, someone wanted good things for Jamie.

And they blessed you with an inheritance.

Was it your parents, your grandparents, or what? >> Grandparents. >> Grandparents? Okay. Didn't they deeply love you?

>> They did. >> Okay. And so, they wanted to do nice things for the their grandkid who they love.

I don't know why you couldn't enjoy that.

You you didn't do anything wrong except have grandparents that loved you.

Right? >> Yeah. >> So, I I wouldn't I wouldn't be wasteful.

I would be trying to multiply the money and do good things with it to make grandpa proud.

So, he's watching from heaven and say you know, I want him smiling. I want to live out the legacy that he built and do good things, do positive things with the wealth and and part of that is enjoy it, part of it's multiply it, invest it well.

>> Yeah, I've just add I don't There's a lot going on. We don't have time to dig in. Uh I I think a practical answer is how do you start to enjoy money that you didn't earn is a little bit at a time.

I think it's like being afraid of riding a bike. If I could take you way back there, you wanted to ride a bike. Little you was like, I think riding a bike would be amazing. I see older kids doing it, but I'm also equally terrified to try to learn to ride a bike.

And I think there's something going on with you and money. >> So, training wheels. >> So, I do think training wheels. I think just go give.

Here's what I would do. I would give some today or tomorrow. Not a huge amount, but just something that makes you uncomfortable enough and and it's not a crazy amount, but just give it to somebody and watch someone's reaction to you taking that money and doing something good with it. And then down the line, a day or two later, buy something again reasonable, something that you would like to buy.

Maybe it's even a $100 purchase, who cares?

experience something positive with money cuz my belief is you've not experienced much positive around money at all in your life.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Mary is in Washington, D.C. Hi Mary, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

>> I'm retired with 8,500 monthly pension,

$4,600 in expenses.

I owe $376,000 on my mortgage and have

$249,000 in my 401k and $40,000 liquid.

Should I use my surplus to pay off my home early or keep investing?

>> Mhm.

Interesting. So, how much is owed on the house?

>> 376. >> 376.

Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. And so, and you're how old?

>> 56. >> 56, yeah. So, I I do want home paid off,

okay? Uh going into retire going into retirement. And so, I don't I don't want you to carry a mortgage.

I mean, you're early retired at 56, but I'm saying you going into your 60s and 70s, I want the house paid off. So, we need to get there, but if we did even 10 years, that's 66 years old. That's $30,000 a year. That's $2,500 a month.

You could do that and still invest.

>> Ooh, okay.

>> you could back off of the Or you could back off the investing and be done in 6 years, you know, or 5 years.

Uh if you put 5,000 a month, it'd be gone in 5 years.

>> That's true. Okay. Would Is that what you would recommend?

>> Um I don't like doing nothing on investing.

So, I would do something there.

Um but I I'm going to put the heavier part of the excess money on the house

while still doing something. So, if I had 5,000 to play with as an example, which it sounds like you don't. Sounds like you got four to play with, right?

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. What about three and one?

What would that do for us? That's uh 36,000 a year. It gets you about gets

you out in about seven eight years, something like that. Yeah. If you put a thousand dollars in investing, that's only $12,000 a year.

And you put 3,000 on the house, you'll be done. I think it I'm doing this in my head, but I'm pretty close. I think it'll be between seven and eight years you'll be out. And uh here's the thing.

If Is your 250 that's in the 401k invested in good growth stock mutual funds earning market rates of return?

>> Um I think so. I retired from the government, so I have the G fund.

>> Mm, okay. So, it's TSP. It's not 401K.

>> Yeah, TSP, I'm sorry. It's TSP.

>> Okay. I would move it all into the C plan.

Not the G. >> Okay. >> It's It's been It's been earning about what the S&P does. And so it's been earning around 11 12% a year average.

If you're If you're earning 10%, which the G is not, but the C would be.

Um if you're earning 10% a year, your lump sum, your 250 that's in there, will double every 7 years. You're 56, so that

means that 250 will be a million dollars at 70.

If you don't add anything to it.

If you don't add anything to it. And if it's in the C plan. Now, if you're retired, you can roll that TSP into an IRA

with a with a good SmartVestor Pro and pick mutual funds that'll outperform the C. If you're stuck in the TSP, you know, like if you still work there, then then I would be in the C plan.

Maybe a little bit in the I, a little bit in the S, but mainly the C if you're working there. But you're not there anymore. You can roll that.

At 70, and you'd have the house paid off at $4,000 or $3,000 a month um

in I think 7 and 1/2, you know, 8 years, we'll call it. And And so, but that puts you at like 65 with a paid for house and on your way to a million dollars in nest egg. Meanwhile, as soon as the house gets paid off, you you know, your investments already be on track. You've got some freed up money at that point.

>> Yeah, and the only thing I would add, and we didn't get into this with you, so I'm not sure if you're single, if you're married or not, but the $4,600, I'd be looking uh where where can we cut there? That feels like that's a little bit high, but I love that you're got the $8,500 monthly pension. >> That's nice. >> Uh it is nice. Another thing I would also throw out there. I'm not saying you have to do this, but I would think about it. Um being young like you are, got a

lot of experience. How can I take some of that government skill, go to the private sector for 3 years, 24 months,

and make some good money, and fast forward the entire timeline that Dave just laid out? >> you drop a couple hundred grand on this formula, all of a sudden everything shifts quick. >> Because of her age, I would think about it. >> You know, between now and 60, you could pay off the house with the income only.

>> Correct. >> Extra income only. >> Correct. >> Make 300 grand between now and 60, that'd be like 100 and 120,000 dollars

a year or whatever. I mean, yeah, I bet I bet you could. >> It's possible. I would lose I would look at it as an op >> You don't have to do it as a slave drive thing. Take something that it's kind of makes you smile. Yeah, you're happy to go to work. >> That's right. >> And go make some little bit of money and it makes me real happy cuz I'm paying off my house super fast, and then I can really do be serious about investing.

That's that's a really good idea. I didn't think about that. Cuz at 56, you got a lot of gas left in the tank. Yeah, a lot of things you can do. >> Yeah. >> That's very cool. Okay, so the TSP

has the Thrift Savings Plan for federal

government employees has several options.

The G is the um is like a guaranteed, and it's one of the lowest paying of the options. The C

is a common stock, and it mirrors the S&P. The S is small company

and is like an aggressive growth. The I is international.

And so that's like an international growth stock mutual fund, same kind of thing. The S and the I have underperformed though their indexes in the marketplace. So they're not as strong. The C is by far the strongest thing, not even a close second in the TSP program. And so

what we've always recommended is somewhere around 80% for those of you working there or more in the C plan. And if you want a little bit of spice in the gumbo you can go 80 10 10, 80% C, 10% S, 10%

I. And that's starting to approximate the four types of mutual funds we talk about growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international in your TSP. And you'll get a good rate of return there. But I would have zero in the F or in the G, either one. And they also have not new life phase plans. I wouldn't be in any of those at all.

Not at all. Don't let the government plan your investing. That would be a bad idea. Sorry if you work for the government, but you should know that.

>> That's true. >> Yeah, no, you want to plan your investing and you want to look at the track records of these particular indexes that these are modeled after and they're pretty simple to look at. They they've got lots of good information on their website on it. But if you're in the in the TSP plan, that's what we recommend, folks.

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

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>> Brandon is in Fort Worth. Hey Brandon, how are you?

>> Oh, it's another beautiful day in paradise for me, guys. How are you, gentlemen? >> Just the same. How can we help, sir?

>> Good. Glad to hear it. Well, my question revolves around a bit of a moral conundrum for me. I'm wondering whether or not I should give back a prorated

amount um of money that was a lump sum given to me by a pretty new employer

uh based on the fact that I have um pretty much nailed down a new job um

and whether or not I should give any of that back. So, that's what's going on. >> got you got you got paid a signing bonus to come with them?

>> E- less structured than that. Uh basically, what happened is we during the negotiations for this new job, we agreed on a salary amount. We walked away. The next day they called me and said that for internal company politic

reasons, they didn't want to put that amount of salary on paper. So, what they were going to do is put me on paper for a lower salary and a third party

tangentially related to the business would give me a lump sum roughly equivalent to 33% of my annual income um

just up front and that those two things combined amounted to the amount that we agreed on for an annual salary.

>> And how long were you there?

>> I have only been working here for 4 months. Uh there is not a shred of paperwork that has been wetted with ink that would legally require me to give this money back. Um but >> Did you handshake and say you would?

>> Yes, I did. Well, I didn't say I would, but I did handshake and say I would work for them and I'm having some mixed feelings about leaving so soon.

>> Why are you leaving so soon?

>> Uh because I have um it was somewhat unexpected, but a uh job hiring window opened for a uh a job that is kind of a Cadillac job in the industry in which I work.

Um within 3 to 5 years, I would roughly triple my current income.

>> Mhm. >> Uh and it's just too much of a improvement to my family's quality of life to say no. >> Sure. And you've already accepted the new role.

>> Essentially, yes.

>> What does essentially mean?

>> I Yes. Yes, pending a training date um is

what that means. So, I don't know how long I'll be working at the current >> Okay. How much was How much was the lump sum? >> It was $50,000.

>> And what did you do with it?

>> Well, uh we still have roughly half. Uh my family and I are still in baby step two.

So, we used a about half of it to uh clean up two car loans that we had.

Uh so, So we're debt free except for our mortgage. But we did chew through a decent chunk of it, but I have about half and about 12 and a half thousand dollars of that is obviously earmarked for taxes, so.

>> How okay, it was a part of your salary.

It was such a convoluted way of doing it, but the bottom line is that was a part of your salary. They just chose to pay you a different way, so.

>> it. >> So how much of the 50,000 over the course of 12 months, how how much would that represent? >> was it was for over how many months?

>> I've been working for the company for four months. >> I'm sorry, but was that for a year?

To make up the difference for one year?

>> Yes, yes, basically.

>> Okay. That's what I'm trying to $4,000 a month, okay. For $4,200 a month, okay.

All right, and so and you've been there four months, that's 16 of it.

And you got to pay taxes on this.

>> Yes. >> Um

Hm. But they didn't uh there there was no uh like if we move someone from another state and we hire them, we pay X number of dollars, call it $10,000 in moving expenses.

Uh our employment agreement requires they repay that if they leave within 90 days. >> Correct, and that is pretty standard in the industry. However, I I signed nothing to that effect whatsoever. >> And they they and there's no there was no discussion of if you leave, you got to pay this back.

>> Uh not particularly, no.

>> No, it's just it's just you feel you feel funny about taking the money and then not being there the whole 12 months. What was going to happen at the end of 12 months, by the way?

>> Well, that so well, one thing we did discuss was that, you know, that that this third party would help make up the difference.

And no, not every year. So one one thing

that we did discuss was that they have to basically allow me to do outside work

to make up the that difference. You know, so basically I had about 12 months >> So you're going to take a pay cut?

>> Not to go to my new position.

>> No, I'm talking about if you had stayed there 12 months, after 12 months your pay goes down $50,000.

>> Yeah, that's correct from that from that my primary employer. >> Wacky that you took the deal.

>> Yeah, it's kind of a crazy deal. I have had a decent amount of success with side work making up that difference. >> that's that's irrelevant to this. This is like, you know, we don't want to tell the other people that work here. So we're not going to put it on paper. This just got this got a bad smell over the whole thing. >> Yeah. It's pretty it's pretty weird.

I make no bones about that. >> Not on you, but on them. It's just strange. And a third party has to come to the table. This is very strange. So >> The third party was like a relative >> Yeah. Yeah.

I um Okay, the best way to answer business ethics question is what would you want someone to do if the roles were reversed? Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. And so just switch roles and try to put yourself in their shoes and say, all right, I hired this guy, I gave him 50 grand, he worked here 4 months and he took off for a better job.

How would you want to be treated? I would probably if I were if I switched and try to look at it through their weird lens, but they have a weird lens, but I'm trying to sit over there in their shoes. I think they're going to I I think they're going to have a not a moral expectation or an I don't think you breached any ethics. I don't think you did anything wrong legally. If you kept the money, um

you know, they learn a lesson on how not to structure deals cuz this was a stupid but way to do this thing. So but especially with nothing inked on it, but um I um how would you want to be treated if the roles were reversed, and that that's the kind of person you want to be regardless of the kind of people that they are.

And so, yeah, I'm going to I'm probably if I'm switching roles, I'm probably going to write him a check for something. And then you just decide maybe it's the 25, and you got to cover the taxes or

whatever. I don't know. You got you know, you got a tax problem out of this, too, this mixed in there, but I'm probably going to go, "Okay, I worked here 4 months, and I got to pay taxes on all this, and there's here's what's left out of that. And so, here's what I'm going to do, and I'm not obligated to do anything, but I'm going to do this just as a because it's the kind of person I am.

I'm probably going to do something." >> Yeah, I That's why I was asking that question of how is that built in so that we could come up with a number. So, we've done 4 months service out of the 50. That's where I was going. >> So, that's 16 of the >> That's right.

>> So, that's 17,000 of the >> of the 50, so that's 33 left. He's got 25 in the account, but he's been taxed on 50. >> That's the other issue. >> not netted out.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> And I owe taxes. I don't >> And I'm not going to do it in a lump sum. I'm going to >> So, here's an idea. What if you said 50 minus tax or 4,200 a month minus taxes,

and did it that way? >> That feels I'm So, what I'm trying to get to is a is a good formula that makes sense. >> of taxes. >> Yeah. >> The taxes they lost. >> Yeah, cuz they essentially prepaid him.

Is that correct? That's how we're looking at that. It's a prepay on work to be done. >> It's what they did. >> And he only did 4 months, so I would feel that way, too.

>> And and I don't think again, I'm I I wouldn't throw darts at you whatever you do, cuz I think they're squirrely, and and I think they this is a whole thing's got a smell on it that's weird.

>> Yeah. >> And so, um you know, they get they get what's coming to them on that, but if I answer an ethics question honestly, I have to get a tender heart, and I have to step on the other side of the desk, and I have to say, "How would I want to be treated if I was sitting over there?" And how would I expect to be treated?

And you know, that that's

that's the thing. So, we had a guy working for us when the internet first started and ColdFusion was the language. And I spent $5,000 on a ColdFusion class and another $4,000 to send him to class in Oklahoma City.

And it was in the early days. That's a lot of money for us in the early days.

He came home and of course everything's blowing up, you know, brand new internet, right? And a guy offered him $50,000 more a year 3 weeks after he got home from class to go to work over there, more than I could pay or would pay. And he said, "I got to

He said, "I got to come and tell you about this, but I can't take it because you just invested all this in me. It's why I got the job offer." And I said, "Yeah, you got to take it." So, I let him loose with nothing.

And I didn't ask for anything back. But that was an, you know, again, how do I want to be treated? >> Yeah, he handled it up front. >> Yeah.

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John is with us over in San Antonio.

John, I see you on my screen. You're a baby-steps millionaire. Way to go, dude.

>> Oh, well, I got to give credit to you, Dave, for putting me on the path.

>> Well, I'm You You walked it, man, or ran it, or something. So, what's your net worth?

>> Oh, right around 1.7 million, I think. I just wrote a check for my house last month. >> Way to go. That's fun. Congratulations.

Okay, so break the 1.7 down for me. How much of it's your house?

>> Um probably between a little bit over 400k, I would think.

>> Okay, so you got a $400,000 house. Okay, what's the other 1.3 million?

>> Uh about 1.2 is probably in 401k,

retirement accounts, that kind of thing, cuz I've started up a couple of those.

>> And a hundred in miscellaneous?

>> Yeah, you know, emergency fund, six months, you know, and I keep that in cash and usually just buy like T-bills that, you know, mature within a month. So, I always have cash on hand, but >> I'm 55. >> 55. And how much of the 1.7 million did you inherit?

>> Zero. >> Okay. >> my parents' knowledge >> There you go. >> and love. >> Love it. That's good news.

>> I love it. My mom's still alive, too, so >> Very cool. And your worst year of income since you've been working and your best year of income since you've been working? >> Um worst year, uh probably 50.

Um best, just a little over 200.

>> Okay. What do you do for a living?

>> Uh I'm a project director in medical research. >> Okay. All right. Four-year degree?

>> Yes. >> In what? >> And that that really didn't um geography and child psychology.

>> Got it. Cool. And your GPA when you were going to school? >> Oh, I was worried you were going to ask me that. I I'm going to say it was close to three, but not quite over.

>> Okay. That's what mine was. Mine was a 2.97 and I'm still pissed about that 3/100s. But yeah, there you go. Good for you, man. All right. So, you didn't inherit anything. You start >> No. >> at zero at age 55. You got 1.7 million including a paid-for house. Very cool.

So, uh when you're out there running around today and you see these news reports that the American dream is dead, that it can't be done today. Uh do you think this can be done today? >> Absolutely.

And not only can it be done, it can be done easily. It's all mental.

My dad immigrated over from Germany when he was in his 20s and accomplished the American dream. My parents instilled in me that it is absolutely possible. Takes some sweat and just keep your head on straight. I didn't grow up until I was 32. I just wasn't thinking clearly and then I was. And I applied the principles they

instilled in me and the baby steps that gave me the path and it's absolutely possible. If I can do it, anybody can do it. >> So, if you got a if you got a 24-year-old version of you listening, what would you tell them the key is to be a millionaire, 1.7 million by the time they're 55? What's the key?

>> Grow up.

Grow up and just get over the mental hu- hurdle. Once you get over the mental aspect, live within your means,

anybody can do it. >> By mental aspect, you mean believe it can happen or what do you mean?

>> I mean, you know, it's not hard. You live with what within your means.

You have all the tools there. It and don't get tied up in the math. Don't get down into the minutia.

Just live within your means, build your budget, follow your baby steps, and it's done. And just don't worry about the little stuff.

Stay Keep your eyes on the big picture.

And you will take what you've learned.

There's so much you can read out there, but again, a lot of it gets down into the brass, you know, I mean, not the brass tacks, into the minutia.

If you just focus on the on the prize, you just don't buy the things that you just want.

Just go with what you need, and then the day will come where you're going to be giving more, and your soul's going to be much more full, and you're going to be happy. >> Let's talk about that point. You're not worried about the next bill that comes along. >> So, I love it.

You're talking about delayed gratification, right? This idea of mentally get over wanting all the stuff, keeping up with the Joneses. I think it's a great word.

How has paying off that house a month ago, uh coming to grips with what you're

telling us today of where you're at now at only 55? What does the future look like and feel like to you?

>> Well, it you know, it gives me options.

I I mean, technically, could I retire now? Sure.

But I don't want to. >> Mhm. >> But I have options now. I mean, it it when when people call in and yell to the top of their lungs they have freedom, it's no lie. It's no joke. It it is that. You're given freedom to have much

more control over your own life and what you can and can't do.

And I I I saw it in my daughter's eyes when she looked at me when I told her I I wrote a check and just paid off the house. The the proud feeling she had for me, which is in in the way my mom looked at me, and you know, you you they look at you like you're winner.

And you feel like you're a winner. And

it's just the you know, the world's my oyster now. >> Love it. >> What do I want to do? I don't I mean, I enjoy my job. I love doing what I do and I get paid well for it, but now I can pretty much do whatever I want.

>> I love it. >> What do you I John? >> I have a lot of just a a lot of I'm trying to look for the word. Just so much I could see in my future and I the

way my kids are growing up getting on the same bandwagon and you know, there's just so much I can do now. So much potential.

>> Amen. Amen. What do you drive?

>> I I have a F-150. I'm a 2011 F-150.

>> 2011 F-150. What's your wife drive?

>> Uh she has a Kia Sportage.

>> Uh-huh. How old?

>> And it's about it's about 2 years old.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Okay.

So folks, if you want to know what somebody's worth $1.7 million drives, that's what they drive.

>> Yeah. >> That that's that's an actual thing.

That's not a not a video. It's not an MTV reality show. Um it's not a it you know, it's not divorced housewives of the moon or whatever. >> That's my favorite fake show title of all time. >> And uh I was trying to think of some bizarre place, but they're all taken, I guess. But um anyway, yeah. Way to go, John. Proud of you, man. You're living the American dream, doing it right, starting from nothing. He's sitting there. So let me help you guys with this. He's 55 years old. He's making $200,000 a year

and he's continuing to invest. If he doesn't do that, this this net worth

will roughly double every 7 years cuz it's invested in 401k and good mutual funds, the way we teach, and it's invested in real estate. Okay? And so if he's that means at 62, 3.4 if he does

nothing else. >> Mhm. >> And that means at 69, 7 million if he does nothing else. And

that means at 76, 14 million >> Mhm. >> if he does nothing else. The average death age of a male.

And so this guy passes away at 80 years

old with a 25 or 30 million dollar net worth. That's what this says. >> Yeah. >> That's that's that's where he's going to be just with what he's done so far and he will be adding to it as he goes along. And will have given away hundreds of thousands of dollars. He talked about generosity along the way and changed his

family tree completely permanently. And his mother he says dad immigrated from Germany, right? He didn't say his mom. So I was going to say he says mom's proud though. And um very very cool

stuff. Very cool stuff. So is this possible? Yes, this is possible.

But you have to quit buying crap

you can't afford with money you don't have to impress people you don't really

like. You need to quit playing a game for everyone else and start playing the game for you.

Start playing the game for your family.

When you play that game it's a different game. >> That's right. >> When you take the blinders and put them on and say I don't care what anybody else thinks, all I care is where we end up and that's where John is. Very cool stuff, guys.

Very few wealthy people are concerned about what other people think.

That's how they became wealthy.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day, Luke 9:23.

Then he said to them all, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." James Clear from Atomic Habits says, "When you can't win by being better, you can win by being different." Ooh, there's a better idea. I like that one a lot. Don't be normal in a world where normal sucks. There you go. I like that.

Michael in Dallas, what's up?

>> How's it going, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey, uh I owe $63,000 on an RV that's worth about 18 to 20,000

dollars. >> How did that happen?

>> Well, I'm 25 and when I was about 23 I

made a dumb decision and bought an RV and lived in it for about 6 months and now I've bought a house and I

have nothing to do with that RV.

>> No, I'm I'm saying the RV actually you bought it for how much?

>> So when I bought it it was $68,000.

>> How long ago? >> And it's 3 years ago. >> So in 3 years it lost $52,000

in value.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Okay, base based on what calculation?

What they offered you for it at the dealer or what the actual market value

is if you try to sell it to an individual?

>> Uh I I've done both. I've looked at selling it um on Facebook, those type of things and nobody's willing to give over $20,000 and the RV dealership, the two

that I've taken it to have only offered me about between 18 and 19,000.

>> Well, if they're willing to give you $19,000 for it, they're able to sell it for 27 somewhere.

>> Yes, sir. >> They're not going to give you 19 for it when nobody is giving more than 20 for that. So your first Facebook thing, that part of the test failed. But we know what wholesale is cuz two dealers have offered you basically the same thing.

>> Yes, sir. >> And you owe how much?

>> I owe $63,000.

There's a little bit of complications on the why I owe that much. Uh

you know, only a $5,000 difference.

Um they just added some more onto my loan. We had some in complications with insurance. I didn't realize I didn't have insurance so uh for about a month and they decided

to throw on an extra $5,000 onto my

loan. >> For for forced place insurance, yeah.

>> Yes, sir. >> Have they taken that back off now that you've gotten a policy in place?

>> Yes, sir. It's it's not off. I still going to have to pay that $5,000 is what they told me no matter what because >> month?

>> Yes, sir. I don't know what calculations or or how they came up with that number, but yes.

>> What do you make a year?

>> Uh my wife and I we make about $130,000.

>> How much money do you have in savings?

>> Not very much. We are we're at the very bottom of the the debt snowball right now. Um >> And you bought a house.

>> Yes, sir. >> While you're broke.

>> Yes, sir. >> Mhm.

>> We're uh we're we're not doing too good right now.

>> Okay.

I don't know how to get you out of this, Michael. I mean that you'd have to borrow the $43,000.

Um and just have an unsecured loan of $43,000.

Um Who holds the loan on this?

>> Uh Alliant Credit Union.

>> Mhm. And what's the interest rate?

>> 10%.

>> Okay.

>> The the bad part is I I'm not only paying the monthly payment, which is $722. I've also got a $100 storage fee

and then a $115 for insurance every month. So, I'm paying about approximately $950 a month for something that I'm not using at all.

>> Yeah. Um

Yeah.

Mhm.

I I I truly do not I'm I'm stumped. I don't know how you get out of this. Um

other than you just pay it down or or sell it and if you can if you have any credit left at all and you can borrow the difference or work with a credit union to sign a note for the difference, at least the bleeding would stop cuz you'd have no insurance and no storage fee and sell the thing for 20 grand and sign a note for 43 and

you know, maybe negotiate some of that away because they got they don't have any collateral.

I mean their collateral's gone.

And so and it's going it's going away really really fast. Um Wow, this is these numbers are just horrendous. I mean there's most most things that have wheels and motors go down in value, but apparently RVs are the worst of everything out there.

>> It was already 5 years old when I bought it. So it was just it was just all around bad.

>> means it was a hundred grand when it was new.

>> Approximately. >> years later it's worth 20.

Talk about burning money. It's like lighting hundred dollar bills on fire.

Oof. You just stand there hold them till your hands get hot.

Wow.

Yeah, the only thing I know to do I think I would stop the bleeding by selling it and signing a note for the difference if you can talk to the credit union into doing that.

And the way you do that is you just say, "Hey look guys, I'm getting ready to hand you the keys to this thing back.

Y'all can have it. You can have your little $5,000 insurance charge. Force placed insurance is valid, but I'm not paying it. And you guys can just sue me. And or I'll sign a note for

the difference and work my way through it cuz I'm the idiot signed up for this trip and I'll get to take it with you.

But you're going to have to help me by letting me get rid of it and whatever it brings, we'll put that on the note and I'll sign a note for the difference. And that gets rid of the insurance bill and that gets rid of the uh uh storage bill and everything else. But

also you've got to start thinking more clearly on your next moves on things cuz

you went and bought a house in the middle of this and that really puts you at further risk. It's It's added to this mess.

And you bought a house, by the way, where you can't park your RV.

Yeah, that's right.

>> You know, that you already owned before you bought the house. >> It's a lot of work in your future. The good news is you're young.

Uh and you guys need to be working multiple jobs and get after this thing like >> long time to clean up $43,000. It's like $43,000 in credit card debt. How fast can you do it making 130? You can do it in a year.

Um and you know, pay it off in a year and be done with it and then you just get to look back and go, "Yep, the dumbest thing I ever did in my life was that RV thing." And um the good news is I don't have to do that dumb thing again. I'll have to find something new to do dumb. >> Why Why does the We've talked about this many, many times. Do you have a hint hint as to why they drop in value?

Is it because they're bringing out new models all the time? What >> I think the market is large enough. I don't I think the resale market is very limited. >> Aha.

>> The number of people buying a in this case 8-year-old RV >> That's what it is. You're right. There's no demand. >> There's no demand and so it's not you know, it'd be like a 20-year-old ski boat.

You know what I mean? It's really difficult to move that product.

I'm not talking about a expensive ski boat like a MasterCraft. I'm talking about just a you know, a stern drive baby. You know, your old Bryants or something like that. Um that thing just deteriorates and nobody wants it.

They're They're just spending a little bit more and go get a new one.

And so that's I think that's what's going on here, but I good lord. All of

you listening that were thinking about ever buying an RV, you should have just went, "I don't think so." >> That's right. >> Man, it's just one I mean, I've I've bought almost everything else with wheels and motors at one time or another and have done some really, really dumb deals on those processes, but the one I've never bought I never bought a never bought a camper never bought an RV.

Somehow I managed to avoid that one mistake. >> I just can't see you hauling down 65 in a giant Winnebago RV.

>> You won't see me. >> People driving by you going, "I think that's Dave Ramsey." >> Driving that Winnebago.

>> You're waving to people as they drive by. >> Chevy Chase-ing it. Yeah.

I don't know. I I I'm not a snob. I just never had that one and I never bought a trailer. I never bought a mobile home either. This is another one I don't >> Same concept on the mobile home as well.

Most people are buying something new so therefore low demand so >> And they just go down in value like a rock. They're just horrible. Horrible.

You can't get out of them. You get stuck in them and poor Michael's just stuck stuck stuck.

Man. Well, you you are wise to be asking questions about it and to be gathering information and try to make the best decision you can and then just roll up your sleeves and live on nothing including no no eating out no vacations until we get the RV paid off. That's an irony. No vacations till we get the RV paid off.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 264. You Can’t Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy | December 29, 2025


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This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So, make a change and download Every Dollar today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we're answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888255225

and we'll be talking about your life, your money, career, relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. So, let's start off in Boston with

Miguel. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

>> So, today I wanted to ask uh so I have a business and I'm um I'm contemplating on what I should do next because I'm I'm also 147,000 in debt. And that's including credit cards, student loans, and a car payment.

>> Okay. So, I want to know if I should sell a business, um, for what I think I

give value for and then start fresh and then use that lump sum of money to attack like the debt.

>> What kind of business are you in?

>> Uh, it's a printing business, so merchandise. >> What would cause you >> What would cause you to sell the business versus using profit from the

business to pay down the debt?

I think it's just because I'll collect a lump sum of money and like the business right now is kind of, you know, fluctuating. It's up and down. Um, and

I'm also alone in it. So, it's a lot of my time >> where I feel like I if I could change the >> If you didn't have debt, Miguel, would you stay in this business

>> or would you still want out? >> Uh, yeah. >> You would stay in I'll potentially stay in the business. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Because I look at this as I mean because I mean well how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it >> minus all of your liabilities and everything?

>> About 30 grand.

>> How much are you making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home?

>> So this is actually like my first year in it. Um so I'd know at at the end of

the year but roughly after everything about 1,500 bucks a month. 1,500 a month. And this is this what you do full-time or is this kind of like a side business?

>> Uh, it's full-time.

>> Well, I don't know that I would sell it.

Uh, but I would not have this being my full-time job right now because of what it's generating. It feels like >> How are you guys How are you guys living? Is your wife work?

>> Uh, no. I'm single. >> You're single. How are you living off of $1,500 a month?

Uh just just making it happen honestly.

>> But what's your rent though? Like real numbers.

>> Uh I paid uh studio it's about $850.

>> Mhm. What else? Car.

>> Uh car. Yeah. 450. And then >> Woo. 450. Okay. >> Anything else? >> Yeah. >> And then utilities. I guess that's put in with the rent. And then just you're scrapping on food. No insurance.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you have insurance?

health insurance. >> Well, like car my cards.

>> No, no, no. No health insurance.

>> Yeah. So, you're not on a you're not on a living wage right now. And so, while I

think it's cool to have a printing business, this uh it eats like a a part-time side hustle when we look at the the the income that it's bringing.

So, I would be looking as you're working

this, I'd be looking for a full-time job. What are your what are your skills?

What have you done in the past before you did this business?

I I technically just hopped out of school and then saved money and then started this business. >> Yeah. How many hours a week?

>> I've never really >> How many hours a week are you putting into this?

>> A lot. It's probably like 50 60.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, if you

did, do you have a buyer out there? Like when you say sell the business, I mean, what's that? Have you have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option?

Yeah, I have Yeah, I have a few options.

And that's >> when I mean the business, I just mean like the equipment and everything. Yeah.

Um >> Oh, I hear what you're saying. Not necess Yeah. Okay. Yes. >> Cuz that's where the debt is, right? What did you invest in to do this business?

>> Like what what equipment do you have?

>> Oh, I have like DTG printer, heat presses, >> um and a couple other machines,

>> you know, >> desktops and stuff like that. I I'll I'll tell you. Um

you've you haven't been doing the business long, so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. Like, but how much of this debt is business debt?

Like, how much of it came from the business?

>> Um about eight grand.

>> Okay, that's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I I'm inclined for you to continue. I I what I want to know is

what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the 1500

so that you can search for something else. Is there any feasible way to do that?

>> Yeah, it's possible. That's that's also another plan I've been thinking of because I have a location um in the premier like downtown area. So, I was thinking of just getting rid of the space >> um trying to find something smaller and then um >> kind of just work on based off orders I get. >> Yeah. so much like being in there.

>> Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for >> or is it a one and done? >> For the most part, >> uh, a little bit of both, but I do have I I've picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, monthly.

>> Yeah. And is most of the hours when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways to get your name out there?

Uh, a little bit of both, but mo mainly the the printing process, like printing and and being in there.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm with Jade. I mean, Miguel, if you have all the equipment and it is bringing in, 1500, obviously, that's not that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously, you know that or you probably wouldn't be calling the show. Um, so it's November. A part of me

would give give it another six months while doing something else. Like, you need to go wait tables. I mean, you could make more money doing that. I mean, something, right?

you need to go be doing something and if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clientele you could >> I don't know and if you yes grow it and then maybe that be your full-time or you just have these clients and you start making 3,000 a month while also still working to get out of all the credit all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call.

hold tight for like maybe six months.

give yourself a a time period though to say okay I don't go into any more debt in it >> uh but to say can I pick up any more steam in this business uh in the next

six to nine months and if you can't then sure sell the equipment and then that will give you some money >> um but we just see this Jade and I both I think yeah >> uh as a great side hustle for right now while you go get a full-time job somewhere else >> the fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it I think is good and you have made an investment in some equip commitment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer. But I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it.

>> So I would do that, Miguel. Or just throwing this out there kind of the other side of the coin is if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but you I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in it if you didn't have debt.

yeah find something just full-time, sell the stuff, and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have to carry a business, right? Because it does it's a lot of strain and mental

calories to do that. Um, so I don't know, kind of two different options, but either way, you got to get a second job either way. >> Agree. Agree, >> Rich. Yeah. Um, I hope that helps. I

know that sometimes the when we just tell people, cut your expenses and get a job. I know it feels tough, but truly that is that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut. You're bare bones as it is.

So, the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works. >> Yeah. Um, and Ken Coleman has a book, Find the Book.

find I'm sorry, find the work you're wired to do and we'll send that to you because there's a great >> um it's on a quiz assessment at the back. Yeah. To kind of figure out maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you too, Miguel, that you can just kind of brainstorm and think.

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with the last caller. We were talking about real estate and what that looks like to start saving up towards a home.

And you guys, when it comes to buying and selling your home, there's a lot of decisions. It can feel very overwhelming, but you don't have to go that through that process alone. We created Ramsay's real estate home base.

So, this is a place with so many resources and tools like calculators, start to finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, a video course, like everything around the subject of real estate >> because again, buying and selling, it can just it can be an overwhelming process. And the more information you have that you understand and you know, the more clarity you're going to have walking into that, which is huge. Like you you want to be armed with so much information before you go and buy or sell your home. So, make sure to check it out at ramiesolutions.com/realestate or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast.

Uh because if you need some next steps towards your home buying or home selling process, make sure to check it out. And one of my favorite things on it is the dashboard. They have the US housing market trends >> and they keep it updated and it's just constantly kind of a kind of a pulse of what's going on with interest rates, median house home prices in America, um total days on the market, um how many homes are for sale around the country. I mean, it just kind of gives you the snapshot picture of the real estate market.

All right, we're going to the phones and we're going to Andrew in Oh, Cheyenne, Wyoming. One of my favorite one of my favorite country songs.

>> Hey, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I'm on um my wife and I were on Baby Step 2. Um and it it kind of took

us a little bit to get there, mostly because we've been um we've been pretty sick, both of us, um for the past few years. and we're seeking some medical treatment to hopefully nip this in the bud um hopefully in a in a few short

months. But the medical treatment that we're looking at that was recommended by our doc is experimental and it's not covered by insurance and the treatment going to be between $10 to $30,000.

So we're kind of in a position where we

>> Oh no. Andrew, are you there? Andrew.

>> Oh no. >> Oh man. >> Andrew, we'll give you one more second.

Oh, yep. That's a bad line, I think. Um,

we're going Oh, there you are. You're back. Good. >> Sorry. >> No, you're good. You're good. >> My phone's a little weird. >> Um, so, um, yes. I don't know if my wife

and I should actually, um, take out a loan or not. We really don't want to.

Um, especially since we're >> Can I ask and share as much as as you feel comfortable, but what's what's going on health-wise?

Um we we were um so we we got pretty

sick from the the the home that we were living in. Oh. >> Um and so >> like multiple >> it's been >> Yeah. So it's just been a lot of stuff that's been going on where um a lot of the treatments have been not either FDA approved or um treatments have been getting us better.

We're we are better, but it's it's just been a really long process. So, the last time we talked with our doctor, he said that >> um we should try and do um like a hyperaric treatment, which um seems great. You know, he's had great really great success with it, but um the only problem is that the the payment has to be upfront.

only issue insurance. This is obviously something more like in a natural bent, I'm assuming. So, insurance isn't going to cover it.

>> No, insurance won't cover it.

>> Tell me um just healthwise, are you guys able to are you able to work? Are you able to function? Like how are you guys? You said you're doing better. I'm just trying to get a gauge about how urgent this this is for you guys.

>> Yeah. So So we are better. Um and we are

both working right now. Um we make about I want to say close to 70 or $80,000 um

right now a year. >> Okay. >> Um the you know only problem with this

is that the the longer you put it off the worse it'll get. >> Sure. >> Um and so it just >> What's your margin every month? like what are you right now putting towards debt and baby step two that you could put potentially towards saving up for this or doing one at a time?

>> Yeah, we're able to put um close to $600

or so a month into debt. Um

>> and how much debt do you guys have? We right now we have about um I want to say

about $20,000 in student loan debt and then about 50,000 in a um in a business

loan. >> Okay. >> Okay.

Um, man, this is so hard because I do

feel like there just from my own, not my

own experience, but people within my close circles of friends and family even that I know, you know, when you get something, it's like autoimmune or mold or whatever that it it it can end up feeling Andrew like >> there's always something else we have like there's a long line of things that are continual. Mhm.

>> And so what I, you know, always just think about and kind of caution is I would number one maybe get a second opinion. I'm sure you know your doctor well and trust them, but you know, I mean, we're talking about 10 to $30,000, right? I mean, if it was $2,000 um that's one thing, but I mean, you're you're talking, you know, um five figures going in um with treatments. And

so, >> is that a piece or all in?

>> That would be for us combined. Um, I would, >> and is this ongoing or is it kind of a one time?

>> Lord willing, it'd be it'd be just a one time like, you know, one one to two months worth of treatment. So, it' be >> okay. >> You know, 20 20 sessions is like is about $10,000 on the high end. So, we hope to be done in about a month.

>> Okay. So, you know what what I would probably do because again, I feel like this can sometimes feel like a never- ending >> Yeah. >> cycle. Um I would I would um and because

it's not a and I know you you guys are saying I don't want to downplay at all the sickness cuz I'm sure it's just miserable but it's not a life or death like okay I have to save my child right now because you know there's a you know like it's not this it's not an urgency but it is something for the betterment of your health you want.

>> So what you know what I would probably strive to do is whatever I could to get because 10 to 30 is a big range. So I would get as close to that 10 and I would talk negotiate doctor's bill. I mean, I would do whatever I could >> to get it down to that 10. And you guys are s, you know, I would work to save a,000 a month.

I would be okay right now because it is a health issue, maybe to pause the debt snowball, stay current on your bills. But I would bump that 600 a month up to a,000 and save for 10 months and then starting October, November, Andrew, start this treatment and then hopefully by this time next year, you're through it, you're done, and then press play on the baby steps >> and maybe one of you goes at a time to see if it's helpful. >> Oh, that's a good point. you know, I know you're two different bodies with two different sets of, you know, but that might be a good way to say, listen, I did it.

It did nothing for me or I did it and it really really helped. That might give you some confidence going into the next treatment. It's just a thought like I don't know what you're facing.

again I'm not I don't want to downplay it either but if it's something that's more of an annoyance that you're learning to live through that gives you you know there's a little bit more timeline there to get this done >> for sure and the sense too that um you

know you don't want to prolong it too long because of what you're saying you know it can come back and get worse unless you have this treatment so >> getting to it right a level of urgency But it's also not the only option and we're done. like if you can and it's not debilitating cuz you guys are working and all of that.

>> That's also true. >> Um but yeah, so again I'm so sorry that is that's stuff that is like and that's and that has been I don't know. I don't know if you've I've just had people and it's like >> you you go to the next thing and then it flares up again. I know it just feels like it's like whack-a-ole a little bit sometimes with different things. So, I do want you guys to get that treatment, but um but because it's not it's not

life or death right in this moment, I would I would calm down, you know, I would I would pause a little bit and save up for it. >> That's difficult. I remember um when Sam and I were getting out of debt. This was before the days of Obamacare and you had to have insurance or else you were penalized.

We didn't have insurance and one day he was pulling our luggage out of the back of the Jeep and it got caught on his finger and he broke his finger. >> Oh no.

tape it up >> it's crooked to this day and you know he plays instruments >> it wasn't good >> take care of yourself insurance this is the Ramsay Go.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Up next

in Boone, North Carolina, we have Sierra

on the line. Hi Sierra. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thank you.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, so my husband and I are living

paycheck to paycheck and I was

introduced to Dave Ramsey from my grandmother. Um, now I have been trying

for the past six months and I'm stuck on baby step one. Um, and we're not getting

anywhere. We had half of baby step one

and then everything happened with the hurricane and we're back to zero.

>> Oh man. >> Were you guys hit hard? Was were you one of the towns?

>> Yeah, we were. >> So sorry.

>> It's okay. It happens.

But I'm just I feel like we can't catch a break. And living paycheck to paycheck is so hard for us. I am a full-time student, um, college student. I'm 29 and

my husband works full-time, sometimes even over like overtime shifts >> just so that we can get by. And I just I don't know what to do anymore. >> What What's he bringing in income wise?

>> About 49 to 50,000 a year.

>> Okay. And when do you graduate?

>> Um, I have about five semesters left, so

I'll be finishing up in 2027.

>> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. Are you are you working at all, Sierra?

>> Um, I'm not, but I pick up petsitting shift um to try and bring in some money.

I tried a full-time job and full-time

college and it destroyed me.

>> Okay. What uh what are you getting your degree in?

>> Um, biology. And what's the goal with that? What What do you want to do?

>> Um uh I want to go work on the coast as

a marine biologist.

>> Wow. Okay. Okay. So, you're he's bringing in 49,000. You're doing pet sitting. How much do you guys see a month? Like after taxes, after everything? What does that look like monthly for you?

>> Um it's about 3

3,500.

>> Okay. And what how are you guys living?

Are you renting? What are you paying for rent? We are renting. Um we pay a th000 a month for rent. >> Okay.

Um yeah, this is tough. Um

the solution that you're looking for, I mean, people live paycheck to paycheck for different reasons. Sometimes it's our spending's out of control and we've got to, you know, re the budget in and rein the spending in and sometimes it really is a income issue. And it's in this case, I think you're creeping up on an income issue. Um, I'm just wondering

what is what is your husband doing for work? What kind of work does he do?

>> Um, he makes fiber optic cables.

>> Okay. And and you said he had a side hustle, too. What's that?

>> Um, he door dashes.

>> Okay. So, I'm wondering I'm wondering if

both of you need to sit down and kind of figure out, okay, what do we both need to do in order to make this work?

because to your own words it's not sustainable. Are you guys going into debt? Like how are you covering the overages?

>> Um we are door dashing every chance that we can get. Okay. >> Um just so like I can get to class and

we can get food and sometimes his mom helps us out. >> Okay. So there's not you're covering the overage then.

Mhm. >> So, there's part of this and and there may be more that you can do income-wise, but there is part of this where you've said, "Okay, I'm going to go to school for the next >> uh three years and I'm going to become a marine biologist." And by me doing that, here's what we've decided. My income is limited >> and he's in his career right now. And so, there's part of this that you guys have decided by, you know, by choosing this path.

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just we've both understood that for the next 3 years it's going to be extremely tight, but there's a light at the end of that tunnel because you're going to be a marine biologist.

>> Um, it kind of depends. Um, I'm trying to get a state job. Um, and that can

range anywhere from 50,000 to 70,000.

>> Okay. Great. And how are you paying for school? >> Um, right now I am pretty set uh with

financial aid and scholarships. Um, I've already finished my associates and >> Good for you. Very good. >> Went through that with honors. So, I've been doing pretty well with scholarships. >> So, no debt, no loans. >> Yeah. Do you guys have any other debt or any debt at all? >> Um, >> yes. Uh, I have three credit cards, but

it only adds up to about a,000, maybe

>> 1500. And I have a car.

>> How much is that?

Um the total on it's 28,000 and I pay um

668 there's a problem. Sierra, you got to sell that car. >> You got to sell it. >> See, and I'm trying to figure out how to sell it. >> I'm not sure because I'm $13,000 flipped

on this car. >> Oh, >> wow. >> So you So you owe 28,000 and how much?

And you're saying you really can't sell it except for 15,000 is what it's worth.

>> Um when I had it cuz I went and had it appraised at a dealership and they said they can only give you 6,000 for it.

>> Okay. So don't do the dealership route because they will always give you a much lower rate than what you could actually sell it private sale for. So go on kelly

kell Kellybluebook.com put in all the info and just see on the high end what you could get for it.

Okay. Um, so the the dealership told you how much would they pay for it?

>> 6,000. >> Oh my gosh. >> Wait, $6,000 and it's a 28 and you owe 28,000. What kind of car is it?

>> It's a 2017 Jeep Cherokee and I have

162,000 miles on it.

>> Okay. What What does your husband drive?

What's his deal?

>> Um, he has a motorcycle that's paid for.

>> Got you. >> And um, we have a we call it a hooptie.

Um, and it's it's just a really old

beater that's also paid for.

>> What about the motorcycle? What's it worth? >> Uh, about 4,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would um Okay. I think Yeah, I

would be selling this car Sierra for sure. And even if it's >> even if you can only get 16,000 for it, I would rather have a $16,000 loan >> than a $28,000 loan. Does that make sense? Like that's gonna that's going to change your numbers a whole lot.

>> And if I were you guys, do you guys have kids? >> We have a 2-year-old. >> You have a 2-year-old? Okay. Um Yeah. I mean, I >> I might sell the motorcycle and take the 4,000 and get a beater car for you >> and then sell your car.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, honestly, because you can always go back and get a motorcycle again, but you guys I mean to your point >> I mean it's going to cut that payment down when she gets a loan for whatever it is possibly. Yeah. I mean, it'd be Yeah, you guys would have an extra $300 a month coming in.

>> Yeah. >> So, there and there's decisions, Sierra, and I think Jade set it up really well.

Um, and it's a it's a it's kind of a hard pill to swallow in life, but it's understanding that, you know, as adults, we make decisions around our life, and not all of them bad. >> Yeah. Not all of them are right or wrong. It's not this, you know, oh gosh, you shouldn't be in school right now.

It's not that at all. It is though we have decided to do this route and

because of that we're not going to have a lot of money like we're going to be we're gonna feel broke for three years until I get through school and until I

get a job and all that and in three years it's going to look different but in the meantime what can we do what other decisions can we make that are going to be adult-like decisions >> that may hurt and they're not fun but it's things like getting the extra job like you guys are doing. selling stuff to see what you can free up. It's getting out of debt and, you know, freeing up income. >> Cutting up those credit cards.

>> Cutting up credit cards. Yeah. I mean, it's doing a couple of these um making some of these decisions within the big decision of the lifestyle you guys have made just to make it easier, Sierra.

You know, we talk about financial peace is what we want for everyone. And that peace is going to look different depending on, you know, everyone's situation and, you know, the way they view life and all of it. It's a little bit of, you know, subjective to a degree, but you don't have peace right now. And so, what I would fight so hard for is in these three years, >> how can we get some peace?

And being able to free up some money >> would bring some of that. And how do we do that? Well, I just listed out a couple options from jobs and selling stuff and all of it. So, um, that's >> what the long term that you've committed to.

Like once she starts working, she's got a great pathway to make $70,000. And >> Yeah. And then together with your husband, >> Yeah. Yeah, y'all will be making, you know, 130,000 before taxes.

amazing. So, the light is coming. Uh, but it's getting to the light that I think is really key. And what decisions can we make in between? And these are hard, Sierra. I understand like these aren't fun. It's not always fun, but it's getting you to a goal that you guys want together. And part of that is you still being in school. So, I commend you for having a 2-year-old and doing this.

And and I'm so sorry about the devastation in your area. We we we think about you guys so much. Um, so we're praying for you. Thanks for the call.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show. We help people with your life, your money, your relationships. If that's you, you want to get in on the action, you can call us up. It's a live show. The number is 88888255225

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Lauren in New Mexico. I currently own three rental properties and have 30-year mortgages on two of them. You say to have 15-year mortgages because you pay it off faster. If I am putting my profits from my rental toward my principal on a 30-year mortgage and can pay it off in 15 years, is there a need to switch it to a 15-year mortgage?

What's the reasoning behind the 15-year mortgage? I make more profits with a lower monthly payment, which puts more

money towards the principal.

Well, Lauren, for starters, we would say not to even have rental property uh if you're not able to pay cash for it. So

technically speaking, um I mean if you could pay it off quickly, I would probably just sell one and throw some of the equity uh at the other and make that a goal to to sell it. But having Yeah.

three rentals um that have mortgages on

them, yeah, not not the not the best idea. Not really the Ramsy way to do it.

But for your primary home, we do say a

15. Even though people, you know, this is one of those that I feel like is is a a slippery slope because, you know, a lot of people will still do the 30 and, you know, whatever it is, but of course, >> but the thing to remember is that your intentions don't always line up with reality. So, if you have the intention of paying a 30 like a 15,

>> you know, stuff happens and you're like, "Oh, yeah, well, we won't pay extra this month. We'll make sure to catch up next month." M >> and then something else happens and you end up usually not paying it truly like

like a 30. You don't um now when you're paying off your house in the baby steps, we do find that people are paying their houses off in like 9 to 11 years. That's right. Which is amazing. So I think that 15-year fixed rate mortgage that we talk about, it just locks you in to a plan to

get you out of debt faster with the guarantee that you will get get it paid off in 15 years. >> It makes you accountable. And let's be let's call a spade a spade. The truth is if you go with a 30-year, you're not paying as much, so you get more house.

>> Yes. >> And I think truthfully, when people want that, they want more house. And not when you're locked into 15 though, it's like, okay, maybe suddenly I can't afford what I thought I could get. >> Yes. >> So look at the And that's the thing.

That's what's so always interesting with houses is that you're going to qualify for a lot more a house and what they will give you than what you necessarily need or even what's good for you financially. So, we always talk about having at least 5% to put down for a down payment. >> Your payment being no more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate, which I always say we understand that is a very conservative >> formula uh when it comes to to the housing situation. But just like our last caller, you guys, like you see people like get into housing situations and it and it takes half their income or maybe one spouse chooses to stay home but you can't cuz you built your life around, you know, having a dual income and it it just starts to limit your choices.

The deeper you go into debt, >> the longer you're in debt, it just limits limits your life choices on what you can and can't do. Uh because it's telling you basically what to do. So that's it, Lauren.

Let's talk to Greg. He's in Buxy, Mississippi. What's going on, Greg?

Hey Jaden, Rachel, it's it's so good to

be talking to y'all. I'm fangirling a little bit right now, not gonna lie. >> Glad you're here.

>> Um, so I have been listening for a

little over a year, but the month before I started listening, I co-signed on a truck >> for my now for my now ex- fiance.

>> Oh, Greg, I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, rough situation. Um so we had

agreed uh once things ended that

uh hey you know we can keep the loan as it is for a year uh cuz we needed to

wait for the um maturity date.

>> Okay. Um, and so it's coming up on that

and just in talking to her on occasion, she most likely is not in a position to

refinance it on her own and she has said

that her parents or anyone else won't help her. >> Good for them. >> So I Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, just

from my from my perspective,

uh, I I'm not quite sure how I can get myself out of this. Have you tried persuading her to sell it and start over fresh on her own?

>> I have. Uh, she is not completely

opposed to the idea, but I don't think I

can really rely on her actually following that through. >> Can I ask a question? And I promise it

does kind of relate to this. Who broke up with who? >> No, you're good. Uh, I ended things with her. >> Okay. There >> makes it a little stickier. It makes it stickier because this this is a tie to you. >> This is a way for you to still be in her life. And I >> getting pulled over, Greg.

>> No. Uh there's an alarm going off somewhere. >> I WAS LIKE, "OH, NO. ARE YOU TRYING getting pulled over?" >> Um but my point is like this is a tie to you. And if it if things were different,

I'd say you could make the argument of like, "Hey, you broke things off and I want a clean break and I I need to, you know, be free from this." Like you could make that argument, but in this case it does make it a little tough. Um, how much is the loan for?

>> Uh, there's about 27 left on it.

>> Okay, >> man. How much is it worth? Do you know?

>> Uh, I I actually did look up the Kelly Blue Book a couple weeks ago and it said

that private party sale was uh tops like

23. >> Oh gosh. And it's upside down. Yeah.

Okay. >> Yeah. This I think this is only going to get worse. Um, so I would really

encourage her to sell it and I'd be strong on that. I'd say, listen, there's a reason that you can't re I mean, the math is like the the logical reason is there's a reason you can't refinance this. And the reason is the bank has looked at your financial situation and said it's not stable. You cannot afford this on your own, which means they expect you to default, which means I'm here for when you default.

That's what that means. And I don't know what the hard part is. I don't know if your relationship is there for you to even talk to her like that anymore, but that's the truth of the matter. >> I know.

Cuz I mean, if you can't you can't make her no do anything. And so, you really are kind of at the mercy of >> of her. I'm like, you can't go in and you know, you know, take your name off the loan in secret, right? I mean, like, yeah.

>> So, yeah, you're in a Yeah, you're in a tough position, Greg. And it's kind of one of those um I'm sorry that you're going to have to be one of the sad examples that we'll probably use this week to say when someone calls. I should, you know, my my girlfriend wants me to cosign. We're gonna say, "Talk to Greg in Beluxy." Greg would tell you, "Don't do this because this is what happens." >> My family agrees. My My family agrees that this is the dumbest decision I've made in my life.

>> Oh, man. I mean, unless you can just

convince her because you're a great salesman. Uh, but coming from an ex- fiance, she's probably not going to want to listen >> to her to your advice. I mean, you broke her heart. Sorry, Greg.

And now you're you're I mean yeah there's nothing you can do. So I think it's one of those stupid texts. >> Um you know and I'm praying she doesn't default. >> Me too.

>> And she just pays this and and gets out of it. But you but that >> she has been very consistent on the payment for that.

>> Uh oh gosh it's almost seven.

>> Oh gosh. I mean listen the most practical thing you can do to be ready for this storm is >> if she defaults. >> Is if if she defaults. and to be ready if you kind of have some money packed away on the side because if she doesn't pay it, it reflects on you.

And when it's time for you to buy a house or when it's time for you to do some of the things that you want to do, if you still have a credit score laying around, which you will because of this, it will make it bad. And as we've talked about on the show, having a bad credit score is very difficult.

So, if I were in your shoes, which this is the game we like to play, I would be,

which by the way, we don't know much about your financial situation. Do you have debt?

>> Uh, I the truck technically and then um

I have about 22,000 in student loans I'm working on. I've already gotten rid of the credit card debt and >> uh I'd go I'd go gung-ho on your debt.

I'd work the baby steps on that and then when I was through, I would be mindful of keeping some money stacked up.

>> Yeah. for your emergency fund knowing this is something you may have to dip into. And I would tell her too, Greg, you don't want to emotionally be attached anymore, right? And this keeps you guys somewhat together in a weird state >> for the future. So, I'm sorry.

>> I hate that that's happening to you. All right, that does it for this hour of the show. Stick around. We'll be right back with you before you know it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz and we are going to the phones. First up, we have Donna in San

Antonio. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it. >> Yes, absolutely.

Okay. So, my husband has a student loan

that is currently in deferment. It's been in deferment over 10 years. Um, but

prior to that, it was in default. It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000.

>> We got >> Yeah, pretty scary.

>> I know. I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it. We got married four years ago. His situation is he's 66, close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets, not really no any no savings.

I'm 57, probably going to work for another 5 years. I've got about 1.4 million in investment assets which are owned free and clear. We both have a joint account

with Charles Schwab, which has about 200,000 in it, but it's fully funded by me. And then we have two other properties in both of our names. Couple of questions. How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him?

I'm willing to pay up to 100,000 for it.

And how do I protect myself?

>> Are they private loans or federal loans?

>> So, um, they're federal loans.

>> Gosh, >> they they were they were Well, I believe they're federal loans. See, I've had trouble with this. They were federal loans and then they were consolidated.

>> Okay. Um, so and from what I understand,

you know, I've been to so many different places and I keep hitting a brick wall.

It's like nobody can really give me the right answers.

>> Um, I've been told I I can't negotiate.

>> If they're federal, you can't negotiate.

If they're private, >> um, you can, but if the whole lump of them, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe.

>> So, what what's his best route? Um, does he just keep deferring it? No, I mean he he will never be able to pay these off.

You know, he'll never be able to pay it.

>> So, what tell me about the properties because I I'm going to here I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do and then we'll explain it. We're going to approach this as any married couple would who is dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life, in money, and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off.

Um I'm just >> Well, there there's Yeah, there's definitely money.

I mean, we've only been married four years. All of those assets are mine. I

mean, I've done what I needed to do and I've built >> How many marriages have you guys had in the past, Donna? Is this Is this >> He's been married once before and so have I. >> Okay. So, it's both second marriages.

Okay. Did you do a prenup at all?

Um, no. We didn't do a We have our wills, but we didn't do a prenup. No.

>> Okay. What can I ask a little bit about that? Um, so I'm hearing you talk and it

sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built.

>> Um, but you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that. Like, how did you how did you view that?

>> I didn't realize how um, you know, I

don't know. What can I say? We're soulmates, you know. I mean, >> okay, listen, that's good to know.

>> We're soulmates and and you know, he's a wonderful man. And I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. I'm more concerned about protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in, a lender coming in and taking. >> Got it.

Okay. So, in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it it sounded at first like when you said, "Oh, I'm only willing to put a h 100red,000 towards this." It sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him, right? Like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt. That's the way it sounded at first.

But now it sounds like that's not the issue. And if that's the case, can you tell us about these properties?

>> All it's all real estate basically. Um and again, they're all owned free and clear, >> right? >> How much how much are each of the properties?

Um, how much am I into the properties?

Probably, you know, five or 600,000.

>> So, tell us probably around five or 600.

>> Tell us property one. What's property one worth?

>> Um, so I've got um a condo which is

probably worth around 200,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, I've got another house which is around 250.

Um, I've got another condo which is probably also around um 200,000.

>> Are they all owned free and clear?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Good for you. You've done great. Donna, did you know about his debt going into the marriage?

>> I didn't I knew he What happened is his

his wife his previous wife handled all the finances. She was a stay-at-home.

She did some funky stuff with their finances and he did he thought his he thought his student loans were paid off.

>> He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year that he

was in default. He didn't even know.

>> Got it. >> So it really was like a big shock and then you know he just sometimes men just

ignore things.

>> Yeah. It was I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him and he pretty much just put it to the side. So, I knew there was something. I didn't realize. >> How many years did he put it to the side?

>> Uh, probably about 13 years total.

>> Okay. So, there's there's enough of a um

that the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to, though. >> Right. Well, now that's got to bother you, right? Does that bother you? Is that >> Of course it does. Of course it does.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

>> Um but right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband and I want to figure out.

>> And you guys are in your what? 50. Did you say you're >> 57 and 66? >> He's Yeah. Yeah. He's 66. I'm 57.

>> Okay. And he has Why does he have no What What's he been doing like like with retirement and all that?

>> He he pretty much uh gave everything to

her in the divorce.

>> Situations. >> He He There was like no contest. Just give her what she wants. >> Give her what she wants. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, is he working?

>> Um, he works for me actually. I have a business. Okay. So, he does work for me.

Yeah. >> Okay. How much is he making?

>> Um, we just have him making something like around 50,000. So, we've been keeping it low. You know, we do we do sort of um um you know, uh W2. We

>> Is real estate your business? Is is that your business? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so there's I I hear two things going on here. Um, I think you're committed to this guy. I, you know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off. That's probably the choice that I would make. I think you guys

>> I'm worried that

>> and I'm I'm going to say this ever so delicately. There's a there's a balance of power here that is feels off

>> and I think that if you don't address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line.

>> And I think you need to sit with Do you see what I'm saying? >> I think you need understand that completely. you need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just

taking care of this guy.

And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing whatever it is they're going to contribute. But you should feel good about it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Up next, we have Brent in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Hey, Brent. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, Rachel.

>> Hello. How can we help?

>> So, I'm wondering if I'm able to purchase um a a car for my wife. We've been

leasing to own for the three years and

upcoming December, we can purchase it for $19,000.

>> Oh. Um, the same car is valued at

23,000.

>> Okay. So, you've been leasing it for 3 years. What was it worth when you started? I'm just wondering how much it's depreciated.

How much?

No. How much was it worth?

>> 28,000. >> Okay. Okay. And now it's worth 19, but you're saying you've seen it other places for 23. Is that what you're telling me? Yes. With the same mileage, the same year. >> Oh, so it >> looks like a good deal. >> Yeah. Do you have the money? And do you like the car?

>> We like the car, but we don't have the money. So, we'd be getting a loan through my uh credit union.

>> Oh.

And what's the alternative? You just give it up?

>> Yes.

Do you have any >> My wife's very attached to the vehicle and doesn't really want to consider any

cheaper options.

>> Yeah, I listen I can understand that. Go ahead. >> Well, yeah. Why is she attached to it?

She just likes it a lot.

>> She likes it a lot. >> Okay. Well, the fact that she's not going to be able to consider Is she sitting there with you, Brent? Tell her hi for us. >> Yeah. >> What's her name?

>> Elizabeth. >> Hey, Elizabeth. >> Elizabeth. Um, so, um, yeah, I mean,

when you put yourself in a position when you purchase something and say, "Well, I'm just not I I don't want to look at anything cheaper." >> You've kind of already made your decision. I mean, if you guys don't have the money and you don't want to look at anything cheaper, I mean, I guess the only thing that you guys have decided at that point is, yeah, you're going to take a loan out and and buy the car. We would advise you differently.

>> Um, and so you called the show, so we'll give you our advice. I don't know if you're going to want to take it. Um because what you realize is you've been you've been basically renting this car for three years >> in the most expensive way possible. >> In the most expensive way.

Yeah. And I know you know you can't really tell the interest rate on a lease car, but when people, you know, actually ratio it out, it's it's high. It's it's usually more expensive than if you went got a traditional car loan.

So, when it comes to cars, it is one of

the places that financially speaking,

uh, I mean, it's kind of one of the dumbest debts you can you can get into from a financial perspective because again, you're borrowing money and paying more on that borrowed money because of interest on an asset that's going down in value versus like a house, a mortgage, right? You take out a mortgage, you do pay interest on that loan, but the value of that home is going up at the same time. So, the car

itself is not a wise purchase to make

when you don't have cash for it. So, my next question to you guys would be, do you have any cash available to you?

>> Do we have No, we don't.

>> We're still trying to get over some credit card debt. >> Okay, good. >> How much How much debt do you guys have?

>> We have 4,000 on the credit card and

then we have >> um a few monthly payments.

>> How what are those? We're still we're paying off our wedding rings which we

have 7,000 left over.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> And then we have some um a personal loan

or paying back my parents >> which will be of about 2500 left.

>> Okay. >> And I'm doing 500 every paycheck.

>> Okay. >> So about towards the end of January the 500 a month will clear up.

>> Okay. How much you guys make a year?

>> Close to 40,000 a year >> combined. >> Combined?

>> Yes. >> Is are you both working?

>> Um, my wife is looking at getting a new job that could make more money soon, but

we just don't have the money yet. And I don't want to make decisions on we'll have more money later. Yeah.

>> I want to make the decision on what we have now. >> Absolutely. Which is very wise. It's very, very wise. So, yeah, a $40,000 income. There's no way I would take a $19,000 loan for a car. You can't afford it. >> Do you guys have kids yet?

>> No, not yet. >> Listen, I'm going to throw something wild out here and roll it over in your minds and in your hearts tonight, but she's not working yet. You don't have children. When it comes time for this lease, like, you let it go. But if you have to be a onecar family for a couple of months while you save up, what's the harm in that?

>> Just a thought. >> Yeah, >> I suggest that. My husband and I did that uh while we were trying to get out of debt. >> We got rid of one of our vehicles and we were upside down, but we got a small loan for it to get out of it.

And then we had one just our single car. We paid it off and then we actually found that it was doable for us for quite a while and we stayed that way. And then when it was ready time for us to have a second car, we bought it in cash.

guys in this season of your life, that actually might work out better for you than a lot of other couples because she's not really working yet. And and I'm going to say this, Brent, and I'm going to be very as kind and fun as Rachel is. This comes through, but the

what the life you guys just described to us from a financial perspective only is

so normal. Mhm.

>> You you know you have a personal loan to the parents for I'm not sure why you got wedding rings. You didn't have the money so you guys took out a loan. You have some credit card debt. You have a car lease. Like this is you guys are y'all are the normal Americans out there. But the problem is Brett normal is broke.

Normal is 78% of Americans today are living paycheck to paycheck. Meaning if you miss a paycheck, you don't have enough to cover your bills. So, if you

guys decide that you want to continue to live normally, then what you guys have

have so far decided is that and and normal would be to go get just keep the $19,000 car because you like it. That is

normal. And you will have normal results because of it. >> But what we encourage people is to flip

all of that on their head >> and actually say, "What is the weirdest thing we can do?" Because if I get the results of normal, which is paycheck to paycheck living and not being able to build wealth and not be able to invest or save for the future or have any amount of money in savings, like I don't want to be normal. That's not where I want to be. >> And if you guys look at each other tonight and say, "We don't want to be that. We want to be people that have no debt.

We have an emergency fund. We're actually funding some retirement for the future. We have a house that we can afford. It doesn't stress us out.

We have margin in our budget. Like this life that can be created, Brett, is possible. Totally possible. But you can't get there if you keep doing normal things.

So what Jade's saying is a onecar family for for a couple that doesn't have kids.

>> Yeah. Is that weird? Yeah.

>> But you know what? You don't have a car payment cuz that car payment on that $19,000 car, it's going to be $600 that you guys don't have. Like, so you have to make different decisions if you want different results, Brett. And that's going to mean not taking out a loan for a car. For you guys, the re the reality is a one car family. It's saying goodbye to my emotions, saying goodbye to what I want and what I love and all the things

that got me to this place. And you put all that aside and you guys are like, we're adults. >> Yeah, >> we're adults and we're going to make adult-like decisions and we don't have the money. We can't afford this car. You can't afford this car, Brett. At $40,000, you can't afford half of your annual income going to the value of a car. Like that. It's not good. That's not wise. And And I would be working

like crazy to get your income up. And

And I would start working to get out of debt. I mean, you guys could get all this paid off. Your debt's not crazy. I mean, it's, you know, 2500, 4,000.

Like, you guys can get this cleaned up really fast if you just say, "We're going to be weird and we're going to work 60 hours a week cuz we don't have kids and we're going to take side hustles. We're going to drive Uber, right? I mean, like, here's Brent, here, let me put this in perspective. Here's a couple of interesting statistics about about cars because I want you to never go and have a car payment again.

Number one, Rachel just said 78% of the people living paycheck to paycheck, right? 85% of people who buy who get a car take out a loan or a lease to get it.

>> Almost everybody. >> Almost everybody, which is almost the same percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck. And for most people, that car payment is about $525 a month, which is very close to where you guys were at. And I mean, >> and if you invested that instead of g give it to a car company, what would that be, J?

>> Well, think about it. Most new car payments are over a term of 6 years.

gone down in value. And so, be weird, Brent. Be weird.

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We're always thankful for the listeners of the show, the people that view it on YouTube and watch us. Yes. Uh, but one of the best ways to help spread the word

is to share the show with the people

that you know, your friends, your family, even on your social media feeds, uh, you know, even subscribing, leaving reviews, all of that helps because with the algorithms of today, when you're able to get this show in front of people that may not know about it, just like our last caller, he just said, he just found us like two days ago on YouTube.

>> On Facebook. >> Yeah. Or on Facebook, is that what it was said? And uh yeah, and it's just it's great because we want to be able to help people. That's our goal for this show. And the more people we can help, the better we're doing at our jobs is the way we look at it. So, thank you again, you guys, for um subscribing and sharing. We really, really appreciate it. >> All right, up next we have Wanda in Los Angeles. Hey Wanda, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for taking my call. So, I do apologize if I'm high or verbal. is the excitement and the coffee couple together.

>> You're good, Wanda. You're great. How can we help?

>> So, I recently um got a divorce and I

owe my husband $50,000 and I'm not quite sure where to take the money from or borrow the money from for the first 50,000. I don't have any money in my savings. I owe 25,000 on my car, 12,000

to my 401k, and my other um expense is

my home. and um my mortgage is $2470 a

month. Um I looked into refinancing. I

really don't want to refinance my house because my um interest rate on my house

is 2 and a quarter. Yeah. And so I've been looking at other like heliloc personal loans personal loan is like 12%. The heliloc is 10%. And and I just

don't know the 50,000 is it because of the house like are you get supposed to give him the equity? Yes, I'm supposed to give him the equity out of the house.

Originally, I was supposed to give him 150,000, but he knows that he didn't put

any money into the house or anything like that. So, he settled and said, "I'll take 50,000." So, I'm just trying to figure out the best course to give him the 50,000. I did take on a second job. I've been working the second job now for about um three months. I haven't received any monies for it because I just haven't turned in the invoices.

Sure bec because um >> What's the time frame that you owe the 50k?

>> Um it's supposed to be cuz we went back to court. So it's 30 days after the um

court ruling and so the and I got the court ruling in the mail two weeks ago.

So I have Yeah. Yeah.

>> So in two basically in two to three weeks it's due.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, so let me kind of set the stage for this right quick. Is his name on the mortgage? Like is he on the deed or the title of the house?

>> It is. >> So typically typically what would happen if if you're divorced, you would do a refinance to get his name off of it and you would do a cash out refinance so that you could also pull the 50K out, give him his money, and now you're free and clear from that.

Um, but I see why you don't want to do that because of the interest rate. But I

now double check this because I'm not

sure, but I feel like you can when you refinance, you don't necessarily have to refinance the ent the entire it might >> entire mortgage. Yeah. >> But just the amount that you're

>> a portion of it. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And so a portion of it would be at the old interest rate and a portion of it would be at the new >> interest rate. Yeah. Have you talked to Have you talked to your lawyer Wanda about different options when it considering it's because of the house uh and his name is on it so you are going to have to get his name off the home.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> Right. So, what I was advised was um I

actually talked to an the accountant and so what I was advised to do was to do a quick deed to take his name off the title and if he agrees to stay on the loan, let his name stay on the loan because if I asked them to take his name off the loan, they may make me refinance anyways and then I lose the two and a quarter. And so, he said he was agreeable with his name being on the loan and he would just quick deed the home into my name. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, quick deed is a is definitely a great option when it comes to the situation. Yeah. I mean I mean and we never tell people to go and and take on debt, but there is a point that you're >> you're going to be owed this from a legal standpoint. And so you you I mean you you have to give that money and Wanda, you don't have it right now.

So it may just have to be a personal loan.

>> Okay? Even though the interest rate for the personal loans is just through the roof. >> Well, my I mean from the court of law,

you have to give this money. So, either Wanda, you you sell your home and you know what I mean, take the take the equity and pay him what he's due and you have to go find a new situation. Are you able to sustain the home that you're in?

>> Oh. Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Definitely. Yeah. The the house is now worth almost 700,000. When

we purchased the house, it was at 391.

And so, um, I'm I'm very >> How much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it? >> 360. >> Okay. And >> And in California, I can't buy another house at 391. And not in the area that I live in anyways. >> Sure. Sure. What uh how much do you make? How much are you making?

>> I I make 188,000 a year.

>> Good for you, Wanda. And you're bringing how how much are you bringing home after taxes and insurance and everything per month? >> What's your take home pay?

Um, a little over 6,000.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, and and your mortgage payment's 2,000.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, you're in >> But and that's the reason why I got a second job, too, because whatever I do, I I want to chop it down with the second job. I just haven't received any of cuz I don't know which way to go with that yet. >> 100%. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean,

you're you're you're kind of stuck between, you know, a hard place. I don't want you to make a bad decision with your home. I think that would be unwise.

So, it's not this idea that like, you know, and it's one thing if you couldn't afford the payment >> on your income, but you're able to sustain that, which is wonderful. Great.

Um, but yeah, I would I would Yeah, do the Yeah, do the quick deed. I would again ask ask the accountant again, wrap back around and just ask what Jade was talking about and if there's a way to take a portion of it um where you're able to pay him out of it >> um and and the entire loan is not then,

you know, subject to the new interest rates because that would be that that would not be smart. >> And it's a blessing that he dropped from 150 to 50,000.

>> Correct. >> That's that's a big blessing.

>> Yeah. So Wanda, I mean I'm looking at this. So, let's just say you have you you have $50,000 in debt because of the divorce. You got a $25,000 car and you got a $12,000 401k debt. Uh 78. I mean,

that's Yeah, that's $87,000. You make $188,000. I want you to pay this off in 18 months, Wanda.

>> Yeah. That's why I got a second job.

>> Yeah. Which I'm so proud of you. Seriously, >> put all the money to it. >> Yeah.

And that's the thing is, you know, that um when you when you look at this high income, I'm like, man, this and I know you're in Southern California, so it doesn't go as far as it would. in Kansas City or something. I get it. Um, but man, you you have a lot on your side, Wanda.

But but from this point forward, I want you to draw that line in the sand >> and say, "No more. I'm not doing car payments.

We're not, you know, borrowing on our 401k. I'm living on what I make. I'm

going to be, you know, funding retirement. I'm be wise because I mean, how old are you, Wanda?

>> 55." >> 55. Yeah. >> 55 this year. >> Great. So, yeah, here in five to 10 years wanting to retire, you know, and and do something with your life and and you're you're going to be able to make a lot of progress really quickly, which which I'm I'm so excited for you.

>> So, congratulations. I'm so sorry that it that you know, with the divorce and everything that's kind of brought you to this point, that's always >> heartbreaking and grief in of itself.

That's um that's so hard.

>> But uh but you have a lot a lot of great

change ahead and a lot of things that Yeah. that you can do and make a big a big impact. Thank goodness that he was a good guy and was like, I know I didn't put any money into this house, >> right? It could have been 150. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's I think that's the really difficult part about uh one of the many difficult parts about divorce is there's all these assets and it's like somebody gets to keep the house, but if you've been living in that house together, there's also a portion of it that goes to the other spouse. And so, how do they get their money? And so, that's that's one of the frustrating things.

And I know like during these times where interest rates it's like if I had it at you know 2.3% you don't want to refinance in order to with these rates and so I think that's very painful. >> Yes, for sure. Yep. And and again it's one of these things that to tackle the debt snowball method and even looking at the car I mean she's still she can pay off her car in 18 12 to 18 months which is kind of our um you know buffer.

So she can keep the car pay it off. Uh, it's not an outrageous, you know, different amount considering her income, but >> but she never needs to borrow from her 401k ever again.

>> Thanks for calling in. This is the Ramsay Show.

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buying or selling your home, it's a really big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the best deal and the best price. Honestly, it's probably your largest asset that you're ever going to buy or sell. So, you want this uh to be a really smooth process. And the Ramsy Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who will make sure that your home is a blessing and not a burden.

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local trusted real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.comagent or click the link in the description if you are listening to this on podcast or watching on YouTube. We mentioned in an earlier segment Jade that um you know about college and school and all of it and it is teacher financial literacy month or teacher appreciation month and financial literacy month and we um we

just appreciate teachers around here. I know Jay and I we both have kids in school and when you have teachers who are part of your own story from being in school. And now if you have kids that are in school, they're just such a gift.

Like these teachers are just absolutely incredible. We love them. So we do want to honor them. So make sure to enter our teacher appreciation giveaway at rs.com/teer.

Yes. And we want to celebrate you. So make sure to check that out, teachers.

All right. Let's go to Sarah in Philadelphia. Hi Sarah. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Okay, so um just really quick, so when I

turned 18, I got married to a man who's

about 14 years older than me. Um we

ended up getting a divorce. It was like a really controlling situation, but in the midst I did get pregnant right as soon as I got married.

>> So I have a baby now. Um she's going to be 5 months in May. And um so he doesn't

help financially. I did stay home after I had the baby, but I was leaning on him financially. And even when we were together, I didn't go to school. Um so

the good part is I don't have any debt or anything, but the bad part is like I don't have like a career path cuz I went

right into being like wife and mother and everything. Um >> and now I just like need help with like

>> Yeah. Do you um where is your your

parents your family situation through all of this from when you got married to now?

>> So um we got married and like my parents

were not super happy with the idea of me getting married. Not because they didn't want me getting married.

>> I can hear the circumstances. Yeah. And they probably picked up some things around town that they probably didn't like being a 34 year old, you know.

>> Yeah. >> Exactly. And then um so we ended up um

we ended up getting a divorce. So I'm staying at my parents now cuz he's sitting at our house.

>> Okay. Wow. >> Um >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. >> Yeah. And he It's okay. Actually, his family has been not his family, his brother and his brother's wife have been great throughout this. Um they let me stay in their house for 2 weeks without like charging me anything. They were super helpful when everything happened.

And they were like, "Listen, whatever you need, we're here for you." Like his brother will his brother's wife will call me every day. His brother was always like, "Hey, if you need any help with a baby, like we're here. We have >> That's great. You and you need that community right now." Like, if you have that to depend on, I would because the truth is if you are going to get out of this, it's going to require you working some hours, like working a full-time job probably to support your family.

And child care is going to be a huge piece of this. Um, so the question then becomes is what can you do for money, right? >> Yeah.

with my mom. Like my parents are thankfully well off. So like it's a place that I can stay and I don't have to worry about like well what about the bills? What about you know my parents are like >> okay with all that stuff. It's just like I just don't know where to go from here.

>> You know it's not like I'm in any danger right now. I just don't know. >> Yeah. The next steps for you, right, in life. Yeah. Turning because you'll be Yeah. turning 20 and all of it. Okay.

So, I >> um just because of what you've gone through, Sarah, >> from a divorce standpoint, having a child and I never want to minimize someone because of their age, but I am going to say because you're 19. I mean, like you're a kid, right? You're still a teenager technically 19, right? So, >> so, so that all of those factors, I do want to give you so much grace.

Like, you're still a teenager.

So, like just >> we have a lot of time here, Sarah. There is no I I do not feel like this is a rushed situation.

>> Um there's a lot a lot of grace here.

>> I'm like sliding down like a hill, you know? >> Oh, yes. Yeah. If you feel probably out of control, so I understand that. Yes.

But you're not sliding down in an un um

responsible way financially or something, right? You're you're fine. Okay. So, I just want you to >> No. Yeah. Like, I have I have no debt.

If I have a lot on credit cards, it's like $40. >> Like, I have no debt. I have money saved up. I don't know what to do.

>> Yeah. Is the divorce final? Is all of that done? Any legal bills or anything outstanding there? So, that's finished.

And does he have any responsibility like from from the divorce? Any um child support coming in? Any >> file still? >> I'm sorry. >> Oh, okay. She has to file check for child support. >> So, this is only Yeah, this has only been a month. I have to file still and >> file for divorce or child support.

>> Yeah. File for divorce.

>> So you're not Okay. So it's not even Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Good to know. >> And yeah. So there Yeah. That's why I'm like I feel like everything is >> Do you have a good lawyer? Do you do you have someone? >> I don't. >> Legal representation. Okay. So that would be step one. That's going to be step one >> is to find um someone in your area

>> who's who's who's a great divorce lawyer. I mean, you you're going to want somebody um there supporting you and

representing you. So, I would honestly, Sarah, I would make that step one >> is to find that person. Um because when you file all this is about to it's about to snowball >> into a lot of things and um and you're going to probably you or your parents will be paying Yeah. >> for some of this too.

So, so that would be my first goal. Find somebody and then figure out, okay, from a money standpoint, >> how is this working? >> How Yeah. How much are we going to have to have?

Because that's going to allow you to know >> he doesn't >> he hasn't helped with the baby since she was born >> and he might he might it'll probably take a court order for him too and even still he might not.

think >> yeah I'm just trying to figure out like what I do without like I'm trying not to depend on him at all cuz I know >> well don't depend on him. Don't depend on him right now. What what Rachel says right first step you get the divorce lawyer. Second step, you sit down with mom and dad and say, "Okay, we're we we're getting the divorce lawyer. How do we pay for this?" And find out what help you have and what help you don't have.

And in that same conversation, that's also a good time to figure out, okay, mom and dad, like this thing is happening. >> I don't live with him anymore and kind of figure out what create a plan and a vision for the future, right? It's how long can I stay here. What's that got to look like? And guys, everybody set really clear expectations of what that means. Do I do can I stay here for a

year? Can I stay here for it? And really talk this through because then when you know what the plan is, you'll feel better. And then you'll know what you can actually focus on. If you know that

you have 12 months and then at the 12 month point, your parents expect you to either start paying some sort of rent or I don't know what you'll decide, but then that will inform okay, what do I need do what do I need to do next?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and I would say too, you know, because we always do talk about that expectation like what Jade's saying and in this case, Sarah, you know, maybe that expectation is dependent upon your next step >> and how long the divorce takes. Um it may even be of if you need to go back to school >> and while you're in school, you can stay with them, right?

So, it's kind of mapping out and again, this is not in a rush, Sarah, for you. I really don't feel like you have to do all of this tonight by any means, but this is kind of your next big steps is >> finding the lawyer, filing, starting that process, and then in the meantime, because it's good for you, Sarah, to be thinking through what does my future look like to Jade's point. So, what what is the next steps? What does it look like?

And just paint a broad stroke of like, okay, if I'm 23, what does it look like for me to self- sustain? That's right. >> To pay rents, all that. Do I need a college degree to do that?

Do I love, you know, um, accounting and I probably need to go get, you know, um, you know, a degree in that. >> I actually worked as like a secretary for several construction businesses. I like doing that. >> Okay.

So, admin, yeah, administration is probably really high up in your skill set. Yeah. So, finding those kind of things >> and then backing out from there and say, okay, you know, would I be able just to plug in with one or two businesses around to be able just to start working, you know, maybe in the next six months and that's great. Or do I need to go back to school?

Right? And then with your parents being that safety net for you right now, how much are they willing to be a safety net financially for you right now and from a time housing perspective like what Jada is saying. But Sarah, stay on the line. I'm going to get you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do >> Um because that'll help in that in that mindset and I think it could just be refreshing to you to have a level of grasp and control over your future.

But I am so sorry um about all of this and we just pray that it's a smooth process for you from here on out.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Gabrielle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello, Jade. Hello, Rachel. Uh, it's Gabriel. Sorry. >> Oh, Gabriel. Gosh, I'm sorry. My bad.

Thank you, Gabriel, for the No, >> for the fix. How can we help?

>> All right. I was calling on behalf of my mom. Um, she's 72. She's a widow who

never remarried. U currently, she's retired. She's active in her church. and

she has a home that's almost paid off.

It doesn't include taxes and insurance, but lately she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate.

>> Um, how can I help her protect her being

independent, but also set up her finances wisely for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings?

>> Yeah, for sure. How old are you?

>> I'm 40. >> You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she Is she still working?

>> She's not. >> Okay. So, she's retired. Is she Do you know Do you have any idea numbers of what's in her retirement?

>> Um, she's currently receiving Oh, as far

as her retirement savings, she does I believe she's exhausted them. So, she's currently the only income coming in is social security. >> Do you know what that is?

>> Um, I believe it was like 1,100,300 possibly. >> Oh, wow. And do you know >> on the bare minimum? Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full?

>> So, the mortgage currently outstanding balance is around 100k.

>> Okay. >> And then the mortgage payment is around I'd say 1450.

>> Oh gosh. Okay. Well, yeah. So, >> how is she paying for everything >> right now? I have my oldest sister who's living with her and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage.

>> Okay. So, they're half and half. Okay.

So it's that's 700 and then everything else I mean is she able to pay for is is

your sister splitting other bills do you know like electricity, water, all of that? >> Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings she approaches each sibling individually and ask >> okay >> for help >> um whether it's covering a bill or a few dollars here and there. Yeah.

>> And it's for real needs. It's not for Yeah. Is she ablebodied to go to work?

Is she able to work?

>> She is able-bodied. Uh, however, she hasn't worked in some time.

>> Yeah, that's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either get if she has no

if she has no money and all she's getting is social security. It's not enough to your point >> when taxes are due for property tax. I mean, once she pays off the house, you know, she's going have to pay for property tax and all that. >> What's the home worth? I'm just curious.

If she were to sell it, if she were to sell it, what would it be worth?

Um, conservatively probably about 1.1

million. Um, it's a five bedroomedroom, three bath. Um, as far as

her renting out the rooms, that's also been thrown around, but >> I hate that for her. >> Require uh me involving myself. Yeah.

Uh, >> I'm just wondering about everything.

>> Is there like a Go ahead. I'm just wondering because my head is that she's 72. She's still fairly young and she's in good health. She could live till 92, right? So, in my mind, I as

>> in my mind, I look at $1 million that she stands to take away from this and I go, "Okay, we can throw a decent amount

and invest it and start that fund going and then maybe she can buy a condo for, you know, 250 or 300. I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there.

What's possible? Can she buy something that's very small just for her and then your sister goes and does her own thing?

Because I'm also thinking what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life, right? So, there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested, and get some of it in a smaller, modest living space for

her.

>> Yeah, I think that's that's what I envision for her. >> I just don't know where to start. I think um if I do get the ball rolling,

I'm I'm seeing it through start to finish. Yeah. So, where would I start?

>> Well, I would start with is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole family, or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country?

>> Uh, no. We're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area. >> Okay. Have you looked at or would you know price ranges of again a very modest

one-bedroom condo that she could purchase? >> Onebedroom, one bath condo purchase outright >> possibly in the area that we're in >> like around Oh, outskirts.

>> Well, yeah, cuz she's got to be able to afford it. >> 400. >> 400. Okay. >> Okay. So, then she could invest 500,

>> you know. >> Yeah, >> I'm not mad at that. >> And get that ball rolling. And then again, if she's able to not pull from those investments and maybe for just three years work somewhere just to pay just the rent, you know, just mortgage.

I'm sorry, not mortgage. Hopefully, it's paid for. >> Yeah. taxes, >> taxes, you know, lights, water, food,

um, and and just not touch that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that because it's either going to be that or or you guys

as a as grown kid adults all have to say, "Okay, mom's not going to be able to afford this long term. Are we going to be willing to to support her in it?" Um, >> so that would be have to be a conversation that you guys have. >> Will she sell? Do you I mean if if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like?

>> The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional for her. For me, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now is the way that I talk with her.

>> And um you know, she's open to it. Um

but again, uh she kind of pushes the the

uh the work on to me. So >> yeah. >> And so do my siblings and all. What do they kind of look to you, your sisters too, to say like what do you think?

>> Um, >> no. They they don't have an opinion as far as >> what she should do. Um, they feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that you should hold on to it and she's only got >> such and such ways to go.

>> Listen, there's no there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional.

Like I'm I'm telling people all the time that plays such a factor in how we

manage the money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have anything. And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the comfort the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing, right?

And that's going to you're start she's going to start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the

money if that makes sense. The more that you and it's your choice but the more that you say okay we'll float it we'll float it. We'll float it. Just know that >> it'll float through the Yeah.

>> for the next 20 years. Yeah. So you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying >> we can talk to her about this, but if she doesn't do it, we have to allow her to feel it because when she feels it is when she's going to realize, okay, I have a difficult choice to make. And just try to support her as much as you can.

And it is emotional.

It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution often lies outside the comfort zone. So

>> So it sounds like my next steps might be like to part right. kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation. If we're going to do this, we need to stop enabling her um and giving her money essentially.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, that I mean that's what I would do. And even pull some options. You can even get in touch with one of our um um >> real estate pros. Yeah. just to look for the area like what's in the areas of um

where you guys are just different options condo-wise and be you know there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations right maybe it's just the actual home itself but um run some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it but yeah this is this is difficult

When it comes to debt or building wealth, people often can forget an important step when it comes to reaching their goals, and that's having insurance and having the right coverage. or too little or too much can really impact how long it takes you to build wealth. So skimping on insurance might feel like saving, but when life happens, it is not great because you may not have a safety net that you need. And we don't want debt to be that safety net.

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to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next we have Derek in San

Jose. Hi Derek, welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel, I'm a big fan and it's a real honor to speak with you. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> So I recently got engaged. My fiance and

I are both 36 years old. Um we're looking to start a Brady Bunch. We've got five kids between 10 and 12. Between us >> Oh, wow. Between 10 Wait, between 10 and 12? Is that what you said?

>> Yeah. I have twin sons who are 11 and she has a 10-year-old, 11year-old, and 12-year-old. Oh my wow.

>> Gosh, that's going to be a house full.

That's fun. So great.

>> Yeah, it's been really fun. Yep. So, the reason I'm calling um is because we have a pretty large difference in assets and

I think based on your advice um it would

the advice would be that we should get a prenup. So, I have roughly $12 million

and she has roughly 50,000. Um and so we

started the process of looking into a prenup and it's been an emotional one.

Um, and I totally understand why. And I think especially like we went through a questionnaire talking together about it.

Um, but then when we got the first draft back from my lawyer, that's when she's really not been feeling good about it.

Um, and I understand the concern. So, I mean, she feels like I wouldn't be fully entering the marriage in the same way that she is because it feels like I'm holding assets uh like separately off to the side. Um, and I'm sensitive to that and especially in some of the context of her um, former relationship. And so I'm

just looking for maybe more clarity and

uh, like what you guys would recommend.

>> Oh man, this is a hard one. Um,

because it is I think it is a wise decision to do one. And I say that even more. I have a friend who's going through not a great

situation and she came in with a lot more and now he's just I mean it was it's just messy. It's messy, messy. And there's a level um again, you're not you're you're hoping and praying obviously that this is the one and that it's going to last a lifetime, but as you guys have experienced, you know, there there is a reality to all of this.

And whenever we any of us get married, right, I think there is like this like, okay, I'm choosing you for a reason and for a lifetime. But um but we also don't live under a rock and know that things change in life and situations come up and unfortunately some really hard things happen and does causes marriages

>> to to break up right to to enter into divorce and we don't want that. Um, so

what were the part I'm curious what were the parts of it that was making her

because you guys went through a questionnaire together and it didn't sound like the questionnaire brought up a lot of red flags, but when she was actually like reading it, does she feel like she she won't be taken care of if something happens or like what what's the what's that underlying?

>> That's a concern. Yeah. Yes. And I think especially like um you know her kids as well too and it's something that um I want to address and I think we could address like in a will or um like some

other document or method after um we get

married and and it's something that I want to do like I absolutely would want her and her kids to be taken care of too if something you know didn't happen to us. I think it also it it feels very condescending to her um that like the

but that either she and I don't see it

being a problem for her at all. Like my goal in this and I think that's what your advice is that in our case that I

know is rare. It would help protect our marriage and that's what I want to do.

Um, but I totally understand that she feels it's condescending like to her maybe her and her family and her friends that they might be a problem and that we would need this to like protect against them. >> Can I can I ask how how like stringent

this prenup is? Like how strict it is?

cuz when I've heard calls about this before, my my question is always, is

there a way that this can be more progressive that over maybe over time and over years some

of the restrictions fall off? Like does that make sense to where it's like the longer we're together >> question >> and the more that this feels right, some of this starts to fall off and now we start to become one >> and and after a while it's all gone and we are one. Is is there anything built in like that? >> So there's nothing currently built in like that.

So other than that, it's pretty basic. So everything we enter into the marriage with is separate property except she has a small amount of debt. And she's been awesome about eliminating debt, especially the situation she came from that I I don't want her to carry at all. Like I would we would just pay it off.

Um and then everything after the date of the marriage is shared. So income that I make or she made, we just share it. Um, our plan is that she would stop working, she'd be able to be home with all these kids.

>> Yeah. So, at least as it's currently structured, the growth in that would remain mine. I think we have talked about it's not in the document, but like if I were to stop working to also help with the kids, which would be an option, like that the income that we drew from that would be considered our income.

>> I think I would. Yeah, I'd be wondering about that if I were entering in that marriage, like how how can we protect what you've already created, but how can

I be a player and how that grows from here on out? Like how can I be a part of that? I think I might be wondering about that. That's tough, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then and the only other additional part is we're planning to get a house and I was just going to buy the house. We title it in both of our names.

I just consider a community property.

Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're you're being very gracious about this, Derek. I think it's such a hard line to be wise um in a situation and being I

mean, you don't sound like you're drawing these crazy hard lines and you know what I mean? And you're pushing like it's >> um your tone feels very humble and and

gracious, which I Yeah. I mean, I think she probably very much appreciates. Um

so, yeah.

I'm trying to think if I were in her position, which you never can fully do for somebody. You know, there's a part of me that I don't know.

I think I would understand. You're coming in with 12 million >> and I understand that's not mine right now, right? Like there's I don't know.

>> Yeah, this one's hard for me. I I see.

>> Are you Are you an anti- prenup?

>> No, I'm not. I would not go that far. I think it's just it's >> it's it is a very tough way to start out a marriage clearly cuz we're dividing yours versus mine >> and everything else in the marriage is our is we say we us our so it it is

tough and if you're a person let's you know I'll put myself in the shoes >> uh me I've always viewed oh when you

enter a marriage it's like this >> yes >> you don't know who you're going to fall in love with and that person happens to be loaded and now suddenly are like, "Oh, this picture I had of it being ours

is not possible." That's just tough. I'm not saying it's wrong. It's just tough.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think too, Derek, I think it's too I think it can feel like the 12 million's off in this corner and it's never we're never going to participate in it. But I think the it comes into its mine if something happens.

But up until that point, it's ours. Like we're sharing assets. That's a good point. That is a very good point.

Like we are living our lives together as one. But for some reason, if if something ever happened in a divorce, this part still goes back to me. Does that make sense? I wonder if framing it >> that's a good way to frame it because that actually >> with her cuz that because it it it can be hers, right?

Like you guys can share in this. It's the only time it's not hers is if you guys legally go through a divorce.

>> Yeah. Totally makes sense. And that is how we went to live going into the marriage. >> Yeah. And it sounds like that's Yeah.

And that sounds like your attitude because you're going to take some of our money and we're going to buy a house together with this money and use this money for our family. So, I think it's it's such a fine line, Derek. I mean, it's so hard, but I think um I would keep and bring in a third party if there's a great marriage counselor or therapist. Honestly, it's something to to think through and even get other opinions um because yeah, you want to be on the same page with this.

The allnew Every Dollar is here and it is way more than just the incredible budgeting app that it is. now has tons of advanced features to help you make

progress with your money so much faster.

And the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So get every dollar for free starting today. Just get it in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Alex, welcome to the show. >> Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> So I am I'm 28 and debtree. I'm looking

to buy a tiny house to put on my parents' property without a credit score now. Um, and a tiny house technically not qualifying for a mortgage. How do I go about getting a loan for it?

>> Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parents property. So, with the loan process, if you have no credit score, you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now, we would recommend Church Hill Mortgage. Um, there are companies

that do that and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area, but it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines. You're going to have to show your pay subs. You're going to have to show proof of income. Um, if you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns, that sort of thing. But for the most part, the process is the same.

>> But how But you're saying it doesn't qualify for a mortgage because it's a tiny house.

>> Correct. Yeah. So, if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at 250 square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage.

What's the cost of it?

>> Uh, I'm looking at about 40 to 50,000.

>> Oh, well, save up and pay for it, Alex.

>> I'm sorry. >> Save up and pay for it. It's like a car.

>> Right now, I only have about 10,000.

>> Okay. Well, then just wait a little bit.

Yeah. So, just put be putting some money aside, 2 3,000 a month, and just work

your way up and in probably, you know, 12 18 months, then you can do it.

>> Can I ask the long-term strategy on this, Alex? >> Yeah. Um, so I have autism and I can't really live independently. I So it's pseudoindependent being on my parents' property. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. What are you doing for work?

>> Um, I coordinate volunteers for hospice.

>> Cool. And >> are your parents involved at all, Alex, in this process? Would they be able to help you?

>> Not financially, no, but they've been a great support. >> Okay. Okay, great. How long did it take you to save up the 10,000?

Um, I just finished I got debtree in February and then saved up like 6,000

for my emergency to six month emergency fund and it's so I don't know last 6

months. >> Okay. Um, yeah, I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live and I I like that you've

thought through that. I I don't think you need to go into debt for this. And for anybody who is listening to my zero score spiel, that's for >> the mortgage. No, but that's it. That are trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it.

I like the 40 to 50,000. Just understand that you that this is yours. Like the

resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents' property and this is money that you'll likely never get back. >> Um so understanding that is important, I'd say. >> Yep. Yeah. So running the Yeah. I mean,

so it will um Are you able to pick up extra work, Alex?

>> Yeah, I'm looking for a second part-time job. >> Okay, good for you. You sound incredible. I mean, the fact I mean, you're very ambitious.

You're very well spoken. You know what you want. You've been doing the baby steps. You became debtree.

You got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean, you're literally doing it all. The only thing that's going to suck is like the next probably three years of saving for this. You know what I mean?

You just look at it like um you know, and people want to save up for a car. they want to save up for a college education, right? And these numbers, these are big numbers. Um, I'm definitely not downplaying that.

It's just so it's going to just take you longer to do it.

guess technically, you know, I guess you could ram ver, you know, go through it to say, well, >> but a mortgage is the one type of debt and this is for a house, but >> figure out a way to do it. >> But the fact that it's but the fact that there is no resale, because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most >> expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also homes go up in value over time. And this is more

like a car in a sense where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into debt, even a personal loan for this um financially would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside.

And I mean, I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Is there can you can't you can you buy or buy used ones?

Can you buy a used one? >> Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at them on like Facebook Marketplace. >> Okay. Okay. So maybe you could even Alex

um I don't know because for some people they may want it off their property.

There may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, "Hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest?" You wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that in, you know, 3 years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate.

>> Okay. >> For for a lower price. Yeah, absolutely, Alex. Yep. Thanks for the call. Um and I again, I think Yeah, I would I just wouldn't do I wouldn't go the debt route. >> I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used. >> Yes. what type of resale would be.

>> Yeah. >> On maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah.

>> All right, let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how's it going? Um, I just have a question. I am 22 years old. Um, I'm

currently going to college right now.

Um, I'm almost done with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left.

Um, I'm only about 14,000 in student

loan debt, so almost done. But yeah, that's my only debt. No credit card debt, nothing, no car loan, nothing like that. And I guess my question is, well,

I'm looking to go into law enforcement after um after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an extra like pay incentive for the rest of my career or if I should just once I get my bachelor's degree, take that pay incentive and just start working?

>> Well, what would it cost you to get your masters? How would you pay for it?

>> So, that one would be it would be loans.

Um, but it would be for a total about master's degree. I've I've been doing our research about 18,000 for the the college that I'd be going to. >> And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's?

>> Yeah. So, if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% pay incentive for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% pay incentive. So I guess my question is it it would take a long time to repay that like get that money >> worth get that extra 2% every year but I

do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I you know enjoy my hobby. So I just don't know if it's if it's makes financial sense to get a master's degree. >> Not on debt >> not on debt but I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow it. Are you are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away or can you work on it later while you're in law enforcement and still get the 5% bump?

>> Yeah, that you you can still get the 5% bump. I've just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this full-time job to go back. >> Yeah. I mean, how much how much are you getting paid like your first year that you're working? >> So, yeah, first year if um with a bachelor's degree would be about uh 90k.

>> Okay. And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95. >> Okay. So, that's my thing is that the percentage wise is not big, Elijah. I mean, it's we're talking maybe a $4,000 difference. And you could do that in two months with a side gig.

>> You know what I mean? Like, so there's a part of me and I know I have friends in law enforcement and they even move around. They get up to detective or they, you know, move around within it.

Yeah. >> Um, that can change your pay over time as well. So, um, >> yeah, I think if you had the money and you wanted to do it, I I don't think I I mean, I don't think I would stop you, but also since you don't have the money, it's kind of that's a no-go for me personally.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, you would just you would Okay. So, you wouldn't be okay with, you

know, taking out student loans for master's degree? >> No. No. >> Yeah. I'd get this paid off. And um man,

I wish we had a Ramsay dating app cuz I feel like we had a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single, Elijah, and they're always looking for a man and we could have pointed them your way.

>> I know. I know. No, I I I appreciate the

uh >> the the the proactiveness of love.

>> I do. I do >> with him because I do think that's great. >> I am for getting married young and you know, >> and what he said is true. Like when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like I got to work. I got to go out >> after hours.

>> It's exhausting. You know, >> it's absolutely exhausting. >> You got to go to an an event, get dressed up, college. It's like you got your pick right there. >> Got them right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah.

I hope that helps. So, yeah, if there's not the cash, but to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash flow or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know, um you know, your work, that would be incredible, too. So, uh I hope that helps. And yeah, good luck.

Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:13 through4.

One thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead, I press toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Jesus Christ. Booker T.

Washington said, "You measure the size of the accomplishments by the obstacles you have to overcome to reach your goals." That's good.

>> That's really good. >> Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Up next, we have Jacob in Grand Rapids. Hi,

Jacob. Welcome to the show.

>> How you doing? Thank you for having me.

>> Absolutely. So recently, recently in this year, I've had a change in my whole money, and it's really been having, you know, $3,000 in a checking account for emergency, putting everything else towards a high yield savings account or cash plus account to some banks, and then, you know, maxing out my Roth IRA as much as I can every year, as well as, you know, traditional brokerage investments. But it really got me thinking. It's like, can you live with these cash plus accounts or high yield savings accounts considering that they accept direct deposits and bill pay and you know you can deposit checks.

Can you only live with using a high yield savings account with a credit card? And if so, like what's the disadvantage with that without going through you know your traditional local bank or even your commercial bank like the bigger ones, right? >> Yeah.

how many um withdrawals you can have.

So, you can't use it like a full checking account. Sometimes they have a limit of five >> um is is what I see most of the time.

And um but yeah, you will get a debit card and a um checkbook with that. So you can you can you know take money out of it but you can't I mean if you think about you know the expenses I just think about my every dollar app and when I open it it's like 15 transactions you know and it's like an Amazon an Amazon grocery Netflix I mean so you're you're you have a lot of transactions coming out that will not >> it'll it'll exceed the limit of most high yield savings accounts.

>> I see. >> Yep. So there there really there really isn't isn't much as long as you know whatever company you go with making sure they don't have those limits and whatnot um for a high yield at least.

>> Well, they they do they will. Yeah. A high yield usually does have have a limit of how many withdrawals you can have >> per month. Yeah. So a traditional checking out. Now I will say Jacob, there are some and we're actually kind of in talks with one right now possibly for the Ramsey show. There are now banks that are offering a higher percentage

rate, maybe like a two to 3% for checking, just a normal checking, which is great versus I think our checking is like less than 1% or something like I don't think we basically get anything from it. So there may be some more on the market that are great. It's not it wouldn't be considered a high yield savings. It would be considered a checking account. Um but there are some banks that are offering usually online banks are offering more um of a higher

interest rate on just a traditional checking account. So that's something you could look into if you wanted to.

>> No, that is true. I've been seeing that with a lot of banks. Like I'm looking at one right like it's Vanguard and that's the one I was look at. It is labeled a cash plus account. So it might not be a high yield. I guess that's where my kind of question or to myself was a bit confusing. But the main the main motivation behind it is, you know, making my money work for me, right?

>> And um making sure that it's not sitting in, you know. >> Yeah, for sure. But I would say the account that the money you have in your checking or the way I look at it, Jacob, is that money is sitting there not to make me money. It's to keep my life afloat.

I mean that that and my investments are there to make money for me. Just like you're saying, my high yield savings, it's there for a little bit of that bridge mentality of like we have a lot, you know, we had a good amount of money in our high yield because we were building a pool. So we were writing some checks out of it throughout uh this past year.

But yet I know my high yield savings is not where I'm going to make a ton of money. That's that it's not why it's there. It's fine to have it sit there some savings because it will make more than a checking account. But I look at for me my investments from real from um

retirement. Winston I have a separate mutual fund and then we also have some real estate. So like I look at those as where my money makes money, not necessarily my high yield savings or my checking. So I wonder if from your mentality perspective, Jacob, to kind of like loosen that a little bit and maybe maybe put some more like emotional parameters around these accounts.

>> I think so. It's also about the habits you're forming. Like when when you tell me that I'm thinking you're building the

habit of I have a block of savings and I can pull from that block of savings for normal every day. Do you know what I'm saying? as opposed to when your checking account's in your checking account. I only use this for dayto-day, you know, day-to-day purchases and my savings over here, I only touch it if it's an emergency.

And this HYSA, I only you know what I'm saying?

personally, >> but um yeah, I I wouldn't do it. There are definitely worse things you could do. >> You know what I'm saying? For sure.

>> Yeah. Does that help?

>> Yeah, that's that's where No, it definitely does help. And you know, that's where I'm going eventually. I have money set aside. I mean, a little background for an investment property, a multif family unit, and it's just been sitting in, you know, I think like a 0.1%.

So, I was like, you know, I got to move this for, you know, and I would say property. >> Yeah. And I would say this, too, Jacob. if that um I love that real estate goal for you.

And if it's going to be longer than five years, you could even drop that in the S&P 500 through Vanguard if you wanted. And um if it's longer than 5 years, you could invest it. It's going to go up and down. It's not going to be as steady as just a high yield savings, but high yield savings, you're only going to get four to 5%.

Now, if it's less than 5 years, I wouldn't probably risk it putting in the market.

>> Yeah, that is that is very smart because it compounds and it's >> um relatively good performance.

>> Yeah, for sure. So again, >> that answer my question. Okay. Um >> perfect.

Well, thanks for the call, Jacob. You're a sharp guy. Sharp young guy. >> Sharp young man to be able to be thinking about about all of this, which is great.

So again, you guys, just to kind of like clear that up, you know, you want to have your checking, you want to have some sa a savings, and we love a high yield or a money market account, but in that you're going to have your emergency fund, some short-term savings that you're looking towards once you're debtree and have your fully funded emergency fund. Maybe your down payment you're saving up for could go in the high yield. >> And then beyond that, be investing. And retirement is your number one priority with investing.

15% of your income will go into that. And that's Roth IAS.

>> 401ks, 403bs. Now, I keep my I keep my

emergency like Sam and I keep our emergency fund in one high yield and then we keep another high yield for like

renovation like things like that. Is that what you do? I just like it over there. >> Yes. That's how I am. That's how I am.

I'm like don't count that like >> like I like to forget it's even.

>> I know. And I'm such the furry spirits even though I'm like talk about money every day for my job and I'm always like hey babe out of all their accounts like well how much is in this? And he like gives me the number. I'm like, "That's not including the emergency fund, is it?" He's like, "No, it's not including the emergency fund." Like, >> never include the emergency.

Like, I just can't even like emotionally yep go there. But, uh, but yeah, those are those are some great questions.

We saw them. They were crazy.

>> They were like 5.5 at one point.

>> It was wild, wild, wild, wild. So, that's always a thing to remember, too, in the economy when interest rates go up. It's bad when you're in debt because you're having to pay that interest, but when you're earning the interest, uh, yeah, it might be might be great. Um, all right, let's go to Tik Tok real quick.

We'll close out the show with a little Tik Tok. We got Brian and he said, "Because of your show, we're living a dream.

How can we eat steaks, ribs, seafood

without guilt?" I thought that without a grill. I was like, >> "Wait, wait." >> So, basically, how do you enjoy life on baby on baby step? I think they're on seven. And I think they're they're done. They are living the dream. >> So I'll give you my framework for like So basically they're feeling guilty about their spending. Is that what they're saying? >> But they have the money. >> So I love this because Sam and I sometimes feel the same way. Like whenever you've gone through a struggle and you've sacrificed to win, you do.

It's like oh like you're afraid you're going to mess it all up, right? And so here's why. Five pillars of personal finance. >> All right, Jade. Here we go. >> And if you check the boxes, then you're a a financially responsible adult.

>> Love it. So, number one, are you living on a budget? >> Okay, green check. Ding. Number two, are you person who is living out of debt?

Like you're out of debt, you don't have a debt. Ding. Check that box. If you're I carry the proper insuranceances. Do I have the proper insuranceances? Yes. Check that box. Am I a person who's saving for the future? Am I doing, you know, my 15% to retirement? Am I doing the 529? Am I investing in my, you know,

force savings account through my home?

Ding. And am I prioritizing giving? If

you're green checking all those boxes, permission to spend to use your >> enjoy some life. I love it. I love it.

Hope that helps, Brian. Enjoy the RV life. The retired life that is.

>> I love it. >> Oh, well, thanks to all the guys in the booth for helping out, Jade. Thanks for the great hour. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

Heat.

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## 265. You Can’t Win With Money While Your Life Is In Financial Chaos | December 11, 2025


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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay [music] personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Alyssa is in Indianapolis. Merry Christmas, Alyssa. >> Merry Christmas. >> What's up?

>> I have a question. My husband has

basically ruined us financially, and I'm at a breaking point to where I need to know if we need to file bankruptcy, if I

should take over the bills. if I do, how to start because I never have done them or if I should just walk away because I'm just overwhelmed and I can't take all the phone calls and all the stuff that's going on. Like I'm to the point where either I'm going to leave him or file bankruptcy or I need help. I don't know.

>> Wow.

So, um do you know what is going on?

Like how much debt you have?

Um, I I would say probably close to 30

to 50,000 in debt. Um, I'm not certain

exactly how much. Like I said, he has always um done the bills, but the my breaking point was last year when he got my car repoed. I looked out the window.

I get my money goes in the bank account every week from our my paycheck and my car was being repoed and [snorts] um he panicked and had his mother cosign. The car was in my name, so he ruined my credit. And he had his mother cosign. Well, now his mother has cosigned on a vehicle for me. And >> that was a year ago.

>> Correct. >> Why did you not get involved and the two of you sit down where you knew what the flip was going on from that point forward? Why' you still stand back?

>> I I tried I tried to get involved for a little while. We had everything written down, what was going in or what was going out. I was telling him, "We need to pay this bill.

>> okay so it's more Alyssa that he he says

he's going to do something and he doesn't. Andre, >> do you know where you guys are? Like like when you're you say we're $30 to $50,000 in debt. Have you had him pull

his credit report pull your credit report to at least see is he lying on that end? Cuz I'm just wondering if he's not following through with that. >> I think he's Yeah, I don't think he's lying on that end. I'm assuming that's what it is because I know basically about what's coming out and what's due.

I just don't know when he pays it and if he pays it. I think he's gotten so behind that it everything's got a >> late fe and is it what's he say? Is he saying why why is he late?

>> Um he just says that the money's not

there like but what I don't understand is he gets he works 50 to 80 hours a

week and >> what I don't understand is why you're still sitting on the sidelines and haven't gotten involved.

I like I said, I got >> You're really good at standing back and throwing rocks at him and you have no idea when all you got to do is walk in there and sit down with him and the two of you get out of Yellowipad and figure this out.

>> I I've tried. I'm >> No, you haven't. You I had ball six days a week. Bull crap. Your household's falling apart. Kids can't go to ball if the household's falling apart. You sit down and get out a Yellad and the two of you work on it.

>> I agree. >> So why haven't you done that?

because I don't know where to start.

I've never done the bills, so I don't know. >> I want I want you to take them over. I want the two of you to sit down and figure out where it's going cuz it's pretty simple. You go both have an income coming in and in your mind it's not We don't think he's wasting it. It

sounds like there's not enough money coming in to pay the bills, >> doesn't it?

>> It does sound like that. >> Do you know, Alyssa? >> So, I don't know that your husband has ruined your finances. I think the two of you have ruined your finances.

>> Okay. >> No, I don't think you need to divorce him. Poor guy had he's trying to carry this whole thing by himself and he doesn't know what he's doing either.

>> You're both lost. And so, yeah, you guys have got >> Yeah. And there and there's obviously a level of broken trust. If your husband says he's going to do something and he doesn't though and doesn't and doesn't and doesn't say, "Hey, this this car payment can't be paid. We have no money.

I need help." right? If if he's just taking over and not bringing her in at all, which again, Alyssa, you you have to be the one doing it, too. You may have to be the one pushing the buttons.

You may have to be the one that actually is paying the car payment and is paying the bills for a season.

>> If I were if I were to just interview you guys separate from this whole situation, who would we say that the

detailoriented person is? Him or you?

>> I would say it would be me. Um, >> yeah. your your your underwear drawer is folded. His is >> I correct. He's so busy working. It's not that he's a bad person. I'm working on him like that.

>> Um he um >> he's working at the job 50 to 60 hours a week. >> Okay. So, what what does he make, hun?

>> Um he probably makes about 120,000 a

year. >> Okay. So, number one thing is we need we need to take probably out of the equation by by the before the sun goes

down. You need to know what your husband makes >> exactly. Okay. What do you make?

>> I make about 32,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, we have Let's pretend that that's correct. And we have $152,000

a year to work with, >> right? Correct. >> Okay. >> Now, then let's start spending that. The first thing we buy is food >> each month. The second thing we buy is lights and water. And those are all paid on time. There's no reason they can't be paid on time. How much is your house payment?

>> Um, it's I think around 1,500.

>> Okay. No thinking anymore. You need to know. >> Okay. Okay. >> Not around. By the end of the day, you're going to know it's $1,53246

freaking.

>> You need to know exactly cuz you can't blame anybody else anymore. The two of you together have both got to put your feet on this together, not throwing rocks at each other, and join hands.

join arms and fight the battle. The battle is not inside your house. The battle's outside your house. And the two of you need to fight the enemy together.

Okay. So, we're going to pay the house payment exactly. $1,53246.

And what is your car payment with pray the freaking mother-in-law?

>> Um, I have to estimate cuz I don't know. I think it's like 750. I don't know.

>> Good lord. Okay. And what is this car?

>> It's a minivan.

>> Okay. [snorts] How many kids have you got?

>> Um have four, but my daughter's deceased, so I have three living.

>> Okay. Three. All right. And And so we need to find out exactly what the car payment is. Exactly what the house payment is. We've got We got the money to pay the house payment, the car payment, and the $152,000 to work with,

give or take. We have the money to pay the bills that we've listed so far

and buy and buy groceries. You don't have the money to eat out. You don't have the money to do travel ball. You don't have the money to do any of that stuff yet.

Right now, all we're doing is just trying to keep the bills paid because the stress level is so high that everything's melting down and we've got to stop that. Okay. So, this is how you're going to do it. You're just going to simply walk through it, the two of you together.

we'll put you into every dollar and we'll put you with a Ramsey coach and get somebody to help you and and hold your hand and walk you through this. But I don't think this guy's done anything wrong uh any more than you have.

up and said, "Jesus, take the wheel." And then you're shocked that the car went in the ditch. And so you've got to grab the wheel, hold on to it, and both of you go, I just hired you for $152,000, and I'm going to pay you to straighten your mess up, and you're going to get your life back.

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Okay.

When you are in crisis with your money, here's what you do.

Take four steps back.

You're too close and you you can't see the forest for the trees. Meaning you got you have a tree branch stuck in your nose and you can't see past it. And then the drama builds

up in your head and you spin out. And

when you spin out, you are of no value for critical thinking. Because when you drop into lizard brain, fight or flight mode, which is where our last caller was, that means you've slipped everything into the front side of your brain and there's no critical thinking skills there. And cleaning up a financial mess,

ascertaining where the financial mess came from so that it doesn't come back is a critical thinking process. So it

requires that you take a deep breath, take a cold shower, two steps back, and

start going, "Okay, I'm going to pretend someone hired me to talk to these people, and these people happen to be me, >> and I'm going to start walking that through." Then the first thing you do is you make sure that the family has money for food. Not restaurants,

food. [snorts] Restaurants aren't food. Restaurants are entertainment.

Food.

And that the family has the lights and the water and the gas bill paid. The heat is on. 99.9%

of the situations you have the money to do those two things.

When you are warm and fed, your brain

works better.

You can calm down.

When you're warm and fed and you know that you are not going to be homeless because the next step is you pay the rent or the house payment on time or

early. Almost everyone has the money to

do those three things.

Then we start getting to transportation.

So when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in the eighth grade, we took a class called civics.

And in civics, they taught you the difference between needs and wants.

And the basics of life are food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. You take care of those things. Food, shelter, clothing. You got enough clothing. Shut up. transportation and utilities.

So, the lights are on, the food is on the table, we have a car to go to work, we keep the income coming in. Now, the rest of it is a monopoly game that we might be losing, but you're it's not life or death. And

we all have this little drama queen in our head that spins out and turns us

into drama queens. And we turn everything into life or death. And it's not life or death, but we turn it into that. I do it, you do it.

>> Well, and when you watch your car being repoed outside, like that's not fun, right? I mean, like, you know, there's reasons >> when your mother-in-law is calling you.

There's all these things happening. But but still, okay, that's transportation.

>> Yeah. Right. >> But why was the car payment not pay when they make 15,000

a year? And you can't say for two years

this has been going on and I'm standing on the sidelines only griping about it.

No, you get your hands in the mess.

>> You reach up to your elbows in the mess and the two of you together. It's not I'm going to take over the bills. It's it's like he can't do this for whatever reason or won't do it by himself.

>> Yeah. >> And so we've got to work together.

>> Yes. And I'll just say what goes on in my head when I listen to her is I mean the compassion I go I you know you get on them which is great and my I'm like oh gosh is this everything okay? But but I tell myself if the reverse called which does happen and there's a spouse calling and saying I I've been trying to do this. I can't we don't have enough money here.

I I can't keep my head above water. You're like well where's your husband? Where's your wife? I don't know.

She won't she won't be engaged in it. We would yell at the spouse that's not on the phone. Do you know what I'm saying?

right? And so I think this whole idea of just putting it all on one person though

is unfair to that person. >> The way you It's not all on her and it's not all on him. >> Right. That's right. That's right. >> And so I mean, here's the thing. When the Ramsies went broke, I was 28 years old. Rachel was a brand new baby when we filed bankruptcy.

100% of it was my fault. I was doing

real estate deals that Sharon hadn't even seen. I wasn't hiding them from her. She's just like, "Whatever you want to do, honey." And I did. And I built a

house of cards and it fell. And you

know, from that day forward, she's been involved. And from that, at my request,

demand, command that she's involved so that we have two sets of eyes looking at everything because we're not I'm not going to do this by myself anymore. and we're not going to make huge mammoth decisions that affect our lives. And you

can't stand on the sideline then and say, "What would you do, you dummy?" You know, so no, I mean, it's a couple dummies working together here. So, we're going to figure this out, right?

>> So, uh and so you've got to work

together. You've got to come clean. You have to then you when you lay out your plan, you have to do it.

And you can't There's Let me tell you, >> no excuses. before your car gets repoed,

before you are about to leave your husband and file bankruptcy. You don't go to the ballpark.

They're not even on the same planet.

Okay? Like there's cancer. We have to take care of the cancer patient. We can't make the ballpark. Sorry. You know, >> our life is is imploding.

>> Yeah. This is this is you you you know, and you can't use that as a hide mechanism. Well, I he works all the time. Bull crap. Come home, put on a pot of coffee, and sit up till 2 in the morning. Get this stuff together. Figure out where you is. And and that that's

what you've got to do. And I'm not fussing at her. I'm just saying I am fussing at her a little bit, but the but not right now. I was earlier.

But the uh the thing is when you've got this stuff right in front of you, this is the way you handle it. You you go right down from food and you you take it apart. And as you click off these things, every time you okay, I don't have to worry about food. One level of peace comes in and the and the angst and the anxiety and the freakout starts to leave.

Okay, I don't have to worry about lights. Another level of peace comes in. I don't have to worry about being homeless. Another level of peace comes in.

No repo man in my driveway. Another level of peace comes in.

So what? Okay, you get down to where the

stuff that is really behind or is really, you know, if you do the right things first, by the time you get down to the other things, you you you know, it's almost laughable how much of you've

gotten rid of 95% of your stress >> and you're in agreement and you're executing. >> Yep. >> And paying the bills. >> Yep. >> And we're doing it together. So, no one

should be doing this by themselves when you're married.

Period. Especially in a crisis.

Especially in a crisis. >> And I would say, you know, a crisis like what they just what she just explained is we usually say, you know, if one person wants to go and actually like log into the account, pay the bill, that's great. A crisis like that, I'd say both of you need to be sitting down at the computer. >> You both sit in front of the computer, hit submit.

>> Yes. I mean, seriously. >> So that you know that it's done. Because when you know that it's done, it's not necessarily that I don't trust the other person.

It's that when I know that it's done, I can sleep. >> That's right. Yes. >> And I don't have to be in drama queen mode.

of payment and so that caused repercussions for a season there is a building of trust. Right. And then and then a year later if it's like we are good, we've done this and done this and done this and done this.

>> Now we develop the plan together and someone can execute it. >> That's right. Right. >> But only after after it's there's competency. >> Yes. Yes. Totally. So when we're when we're teaching leadership, we teach people you can delegate when there's competency and integrity.

>> So they're not lying about it and they actually know how to freaking do it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so >> it reminds me though all of this a little bit when you were on Oprah back in the day and there was a couple and you were like, you know, there was um money that wasn't it was like a mishandling of money. >> He he didn't know that they had $80,000 in debt that she had run.

>> That's right. Right. and you said you need to apologize to her cuz you weren't present. [laughter] You know, all that you weren't involved, >> but it is it's a it's the it's the mentality switch that both spouses have a level of responsibility.

Now, if the other one doesn't keep their word and on and on on now we have a marital issue that we really have to face um which is true. Yeah.

have a say and both need to be sitting down and doing >> both have a responsibility to do it.

>> [music]

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If you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money, well, trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined, and it's not because you're inconsistent. And it's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. We were kind of just talking about that. And when the frustration or fear build up, you can say, "Well, I'll put it off or I I'll not deal with it." But you got to deal with it. That's not managing your money.

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and you're going to love this book. I guarantee it. All right, Braden is in Phoenix. Hey, Braden, what's up?

Hey guys, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I was given a rental property that's been nothing but a headache and I'm just wondering if I should allow the bank to take it. >> I'm sorry. How do you How are you given a rental property that has a mortgage?

>> Um, I worked for a company that did flips and they kind of gave me it. I was

young and I didn't know what I was doing. Um, and so I just basically took over the debt. They covered the down payment and it's racked up some credit card debt as well.

Okay. Uh, so what is owed on the house?

>> 519,000.

>> But you did not get the mortgage.

>> The mortgage is in my name. It was uh the down payment was to me.

>> Oh. So if you give it back to them, they're going to foreclose on you and sue your butt. You understand that, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> That that would not be a good plan, sir.

What's the house worth?

>> I I had it listed at 540 and it wouldn't

sell. So, I would guess 500,000. I I

overpaid for it. >> Who do you Yeah. Shock. And um how old

are you?

>> I am 21. >> Oh god.

>> So, these flippers are these Tik Tok morons, aren't they?

>> Um yeah. He was like my mentor and and I called him one of my best friends at one point, but uh he was just a little older than I was. >> Yeah, friends like that. Who needs enemies? Okay. Oh, man. I'm sorry, sir.

Um >> Yeah. >> Who do you owe the money to? What kind of a mortgage is it? FHA, VA, conventional bank loan. What is it?

>> It's a It's a conventional mortgage.

>> Okay.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> Are you able to make the house payment, Braden? Are you able to stay current on it?

>> I am not. So, I'm actually like 60 days

delinquent right now. Um, I am self-employed. I made $25,000 last month

and so I put that into a credit card payments instead of uh paying the So, it's a rental property right now. So, I have renters in it. Um, with renters in it, I lose 1,500 a month.

>> Yeah. Okay. Um Okay. So, your only way

out because you owe more on it than it's worth net net is to do what's called a

short sale. Have you ever heard that phrase?

>> Yes, sir. I as I work in real estate, I I know a lot about I I've talked to a lot of people who have suggested that.

>> Okay. Do you actually know how to execute a short sale, sir?

>> Yes, I know someone who that's all they do. They're an agent here in town.

>> Okay. All right. Would they be willing to help you?

>> Yes, but they said not with tenants in place. And my tenants lease is until March. >> Mhm. [clears throat] Well, I think you call your tenants up and say, "Hey guys, the house is getting foreclosed on." So, >> you may want to find a new place. >> You may want to find a new place.

>> It's only three months. >> It was Yeah. The the biggest issue is it

was leased through my mom's Airbnb account and so I was afraid it was going to hit that and destroy her Airbnb business as well. >> Yeah, man. Y'all just stacked stupid on top of stupid, didn't you? Man, I tell you,

I'm sorry. I've done I've done worse.

That's what I'm just feel bad for you.

>> It's like every because every time I bring something up, there's another hook in it, right? So, um >> Yeah. So, uh, if I'm in your shoes, I

quit paying the payments and I run the renters off.

>> Okay. >> Okay. As best I can. I mean, leg I mean, just by telling them, "Hey guys, it's going to get foreclosed on. You may want to look for a place to live." And they'll probably up and leave. Well, and I'll let you out of the lease because I don't want you to get hurt if you want to go. If you want to go early, I'll understand.

[laughter] >> Yeah. >> All right. And then quit paying the payments and then start the short sale.

I um if your friend won't help you while the tenants are in place, uh go to ramseysolutions.com and get a Ramsey trusted agent that knows how to do short sales and they'll help you. >> Okay? The tenants don't have to be gone for you to uh begin to negotiate a short sale. It just makes it easier to show the house.

>> Well, and if you're in that world, Braden, you should have you should know a lot of people. You said a lot of people have suggested this.

>> Yeah. But fi Yeah, I mean finding someone should be relatively easy.

>> So, and basically the short sale is is you get an offer on the property that is net lower than the actual balance and you submit that to the mortgage company and they realize having done an appraisal that they're not going to get any more than that after they foreclose on you. So, they take that and you are looking for and you remember this phrase without recourse.

>> Yes, sir. because that means they don't come after >> another >> they don't come after you for the difference of that is >> okay yes and another thing on top of that is um my the old boss he paid his

best friend to cosign for me so he's he's kind of scared and going downhill with me so he's kind of pressured me into paying the payments previously but I I've just told him I'm done >> yeah well tell him talk to your old boss

>> who set this up you didn't talk him into

doing it the other guy did >> and he did it That's the stupid thing about cosigning. He >> Yeah. Sucks for him. >> So, let me ask you this. Okay. You cosign for a 21-year-old who's overpaying for a piece of property and then you're shocked that you get stung.

>> Okay. I'm just saying put together by a bunch of flippers. Yeah.

>> Yeah. This is a good way to get screwed.

>> And so, yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry you're going through this. The great news is is that when you're the other side of it, you will have learned several lessons if you learn them. And you need to write them out. I'll tell you what some of them are. Never cosign. Never accept a cosign. Never buy a piece of property

with nothing down. Don't borrow up to your eyeballs and expect a piece of real estate to work. It doesn't work. It doesn't cash flow. There's no possible way this nothing down tick tock crap works. It's a >> Don't get in the Airbnb business either, Braden. Don't follow your mom's footsteps. >> Yeah. and quit quit looking for all the get-richqu stuff. Every one of these things is in the get-richqu stuff. But write down, okay, I don't need partners.

I don't need co-signers. And I don't need favors from friends who aren't really friends who help me buy something that I overpay for and over borrow on and trap me in. And so, you know, I one

of my lessons is I never cosign. That's one of the things I learned when I was just a little bit older than you and I went broke. And um one of the lessons I

learned is I don't have the only ship that won't sail a partnership. I'm not in partners with anybody. Period. One of the lessons I learned is I don't borrow money anymore.

Period. The borrower's slave to the lender. And boy, don't you feel that right now, man. Gosh, I'm so sorry, Braden.

But a short sale is your way out. Cleaning out the tenants is part of that program. Doesn't it's not necessarily start it, but I would start it.

to short sale without recourse." If they don't say without recourse, they're going to sue you for the difference as if they had foreclosed on you. >> And Braden, you're you're a go-getter.

You're doing stuff at 21, but this real estate the real estate world, there's so many traps, what we just laid out earlier in the call, what Dave was saying. So remember those, okay? there.

It's going to be really easy to get sucked into a deal that feels so great.

Remember these principles and it's going to be a more boring ride, but a safer ride for you. [music]

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Amanda is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Amanda.

How are you?

>> Fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm calling because my father passed away about a year ago and assigned me to be the executive of his estate. Um, but

like you, he had some rough times financially early on, but persevered and he ended up doing really well in his life. Um, and he also tried to be generous. My mother has never been super interested in finances and is now dealing with the very early stages of dementia. Um, before he passed, my dad mentioned that he had been helping to pay for his aunt's nursing home costs.

We don't know that side of the family very well, and I met Aunt De's uh descendants at the funeral. But each month, uh, $2,100 of her care is paid by

someone on her side and then, um,

26.60 is paid by my mother. Um, well,

each year the cost of the care goes up and we just received notice that it'll be going up by $500 this next year. And so I told my mom in passing that, um, and I was surprised to hear that she didn't want to absorb the extra $500. In fact, she doesn't want to absorb any of it. She wants to continue to pay 26.60 60 and have Aunt [clears throat] De's descendants pick up the rest.

I can see why that makes sense as far as fairness goes. But the thing is, my mom is set for life. She's able to absorb the entire annual cost of the nursing home and it wouldn't change one aspect of her life. >> What is what is the net worth now?

>> Um, it's over 5 million.

>> Okay. So, this is this is not a math

issue. This is an emotion issue.

>> Yeah, I definitely think it's an emotion issue. So, did your dad dictate this in the will or in the instructions other than verbally to you?

>> There's nothing in writing. It's only verbally. So, I just I >> How did you find out about it? You found out about it before he passed.

>> Yes. He didn't tell me anything about his finances until about two days before he died. And then he was just like talk talk. And I just took a bunch of notes.

>> Oh gosh. >> Okay. And and when he was talking and you took notes, he said to do what regarding the nursing home? He said, "I've been taking I've been helping with Aunt Dina's cost and um that's all he

says. I'll just continue to do that." She's very old.

>> Does her family and her family's paying 21,100 of it?

>> That's right. >> Would $500 be a burden to them, do you

feel like?

>> I I mean, I don't know, but I assume so.

They all they have blue collar jobs and um Yeah. And you're frustrated because

you're like, "Mom, you could spend a couple grand and it's all done." You know, the extra 500. Right. Right.

>> So, on the on the spirit of the thing, it's you're pretty sure it's what your dad would do, but And you're still in charge of it. The estate has not been closed out.

>> No. No. There's a lot.

>> Okay. How long? And he passed a year ago. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're still managing what really is your mother's affairs on behalf of your dad's estate?

>> Yes. And I I probably will for the rest of her life because >> How old How old is she? >> Because she start >> She's only 75 that she has the beginnings of dementia. >> Yeah. But you that's different than you being the execut of your dad's estate.

You understand? That's now becoming her power of attorney.

>> Mhm. Which I also have.

>> Okay. Okay.

All right. So, the lines are blurred between when you drop off doing the estate and start managing her affairs.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So, if you've crossed over into managing her affairs, you would have to do it at her behest. If you're still managing his affairs, you would do what he wanted.

So, what do you think it is?

>> Well, that's what I'm calling you.

>> I don't [laughter] know. I can't tell. I can't tell. You're saying the estate is the estate is still open. Why is it still open?

>> Um well, he had one main business and about 12 other small little businesses and um the main business is taken care of and I am slowly working through the 12 smaller ones, closing some of them and some of them are ongoing concerns.

>> Okay.

[sighs] >> Um >> Okay. I guess I guess it's just really a matter of relationship with your ailing mother is really what it comes down to because it's not a math thing and it's not a bad thing to do. So let let's say you play it out both ways. Let's say, okay, we're going to put the other $500 in. Mom, it's what dad would want and it

doesn't affect you and I feel like we need to do this, so I'm going to go ahead and do it. Then what's her reaction?

>> Oh, I think she'd be unhappy, but I think she would also forget about it.

>> Yeah. Okay. Um, and then the other way

is obviously you could play it out and say, "I'm not going to do it because mom doesn't want to do it." And you let the other people know and you know they struggle through the next few years while this lady lives, right?

>> Well, is there a way that you can help me kind of maybe talk her through generosity?

>> Yeah. I I I mean I I in this case, I would just I would put it on your dad. I would just say, "Mom, I really feel like dad told me to take care of this and it doesn't affect you. You're okay.

>> You won't even know. Mom, >> it's not it's not >> because I mean just because of the math.

>> We could pay 10 times this and you would still never know it.

>> So, it's not it's it's it's pretty much like buying a biscuit, Mom. I mean, you can afford a biscuit and we're going to we're going to give this lady a biscuit because that's what dad wanted to do.

>> And you're going to be much longer probably. I'm doing this I'm doing this for dad. Okay. And you would do it for dad. You if he was here, it's what would have happened, mom.

>> And you'd still been okay then. Okay.

And so I I don't know if you're going to get her to be generous on this. She's um

like you said, she's and and then she's going to forget it. So yeah. Um I I I

think you do it and you just tell her why you're doing it gently, kindly, and we're not going to have an argument about this. It's just a fact. I'm doing this because this is what dad would have done. If dad was here, he would have done it and you would have been okay. I'm here. I'm doing it for him because it's what he would have done. And you're going to be okay, Mom. I'm going to make sure you're okay, Mom. This is not going to affect you at all, Mom. I promise.

You've got plenty of money. You're going to be okay. And it's doing a good thing

for some for somebody. And somebody's going to be okay. And I I I think you just do it. I I'm I It took me a minute to get there. I'm trying to figure out >> what your what your moral obligation is, but it's really a relational thing more.

>> Yeah. And from the generosity point, it's hard to teach someone generosity when it's forced and they don't want to do it. You know, the spirit of generosity is finding something that they love, they're passionate about, and they get to plug into and it's fun for them, right? Like that's part of learning the gener. So, trying to force generosity, teaching generosity in this, I don't think is the is the way to go.

No either. >> Yeah. I'm gonna make you give your money away. That's not generosity. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're right. That's a good point. Oh my goodness. >> It's a good question, Amanda, though. That's hard. And with the when when the lines are blurred, are you the executive of an estate or are you helping manage your mom's? >> Well, the estate's still open and she's still paying the bills from the estate.

So, really, [clears throat] mom doesn't get a vote. >> Yeah. >> Technically speaking, so um she is the

executive and she's in good shape to make that decision. You can ask your attorney to be sure. Neither one of us are attorneys, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're going to tell you.

And morally and ethically, that's where you stand for sure.

One more time, folks, we're coming up on uh the Christmas season, the New Year season. It's when people take stock of things. This is when you jump on xanderins insurance.com.

Make sure you have the right amount of term insurance in place. This is when you go to mamabarillegalformms.com

and get your will in place. And this is when you write out stuff like this. I have a very detailed estate plan. And about this time last year, your mother said, "But what would I do with all that collection of so- and so?" Cuz it's just it's just a collection of so- and so. >> Well, your skis. Well, like my guns.

Okay. What are you going to do? Well, I don't need all them guns. And what am I going to do with all them guns? >> All your skis. Yeah. >> All your water skis, too. >> Yeah. Well, there's important things.

Important things. So, she's like, I just I'll just give them away. And I'm like, you can do whatever you want. She said, well, I'd like some instructions from you.

And that's fair. So I wrote out here's what you do with this collection >> and here's how you distribute it and here's who you call to get to get rid of it >> and so on and you know make sure the kids the kids get some of this and the grandkids get some of that and then the and the rest of it you know you can just [snorts] get rid of and that's fine. >> Yeah.

That's what I was going to say. A gift to give your grown kids is to sit down and do this. Yes. And not on your deathbed literally. You know, just starting to talk. I mean, that it >> it causes all this just to be the grieving process, all of it, so much smoother. >> Good reminder. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host. Kelly's in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Kelly. How are you?

>> I'm good. I'm nervous actually if I'm being honest. >> That's [laughter] okay. How can we help?

>> So, um just a little bit of background.

We're debtree. We have money and investments and we have money where we can contribute um and and give to

people. And last summer we came across

or this past summer we came across a international student who needed some help. She had lost her support. Um and

so we have started helping her and our goal for her is to help her get a degree so that you know generations can change with that. That's our dream there. Um

but on several instances she's been um

irresponsible, ungrateful

and um at times kind of fudging the truth. So my question is what are fair

expectations to put on an international student? I guess we have three. How many chances do we give her? And when does our help start being enabling instead of empowering and we're just basically putting our money down the drain because she doesn't have the skills to get a degree and to function.

>> Yeah. >> Is she here in the States, Kelly, or is she >> She is here. Okay. Okay.

>> And what do you mean by fudging the truth? Like what is she >> lying? >> Well, she's lying. about what what she's doing with the money or like other things in life or >> um No. So like um for example, one of

the examples is she said she had insurance and we got her into a junior college and when she got down there they said her insurance wasn't great and that

the school had better insurance. So they just put that on our tab without talking to us. Um, well, she didn't come and say, "Guess what? My insurance isn't good enough. You're going to be paying $700 for that." Um, that's one of the

examples. Another example is that we were paying for her to take the TOEFL, the English proficiency test, and she

didn't pass the first three times. It's

a $300 test. And so, for the fourth time, I said, "Listen, why don't we get you an online class? Do you have time for that? Can you do this?" She said, "Yes, I will do it. I promise.

And um when we got on to cancel the

membership, she hadn't done one question. Um and and on top of that,

when we went to the take her to the test the fourth time, she didn't even bring her passport. So that was money down the drain. Um >> and and so it feels like she's not studying. She's not appreciating.

>> She's not taking it seriously. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The effort. We're putting in more effort than she is. >> You're wanting this more for her than she wants for herself is what it sounds like.

>> Yes. Yeah, >> it does. And and we feel stuck now because we feel like if we take back um we've added some extra things we want her to do so that she has more skin in the game, but if we decide this isn't working for us, it feels like now we're the bad guys and she has to go back to her home. So, we feel kind of stuck here, but we don't want to waste our money either.

Well, I don't do um I I'll choose

um disappointment before I'll choose violating principles.

>> Mhm. >> And you're you would you would not tolerate this out of any other situation. The only reason you're still in this game is you're guilted into it.

>> Mhm.

and guilt. Choosing guilt over resentment is what Dr. John Deloney always says, too. Yeah. You're resenting her. You're starting to resent her. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, for sure.

>> Yeah. I'm just uh I'm going to uh pick a

number and I'm going to let her know that at the end of that number that our

support will end. And that gives her a little bit of an off-ramp instead of just a sudden end to it today. Uh, in

other words, some severance pay, if you will. So, um, how much have you put into this so far?

>> We've put in about 12,000.

>> Okay. Over what period of time?

>> Six months. >> Okay. And so, if you put in if you put

in >> 3,000 more, that would give her a few months to get some We're going to budget $3,000 more. And after that, our our um

support on this is ending.

We'll be cheering for you though.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, we we kept giving her

excuses basically. Um, you know, she's fragile, she's stressed, she's been through a lot type thing. And just a couple days ago, we sent her a written note. We expect these things. Um,

to give her just one more chance because we want to feel like we've done all we can. >> Um, she's got to start school again next January. So, we would with that we'd have to pay for housing. um tuition,

books, all of those things. Um

and so we have this list and I'm

inclined to say you need to do these things, but if she doesn't do one perfectly, do we say that's it? This is your last semester.

Um >> I think this is her last semester.

>> Okay. You wouldn't keep [clears throat] keep paying in for that. I >> I haven't changes. There's no joy in this at all. No, >> it's all regret. It's I wished I had if I had it to do over, I wouldn't do it.

Hello.

>> Yeah. >> If I knew then what I know now. Right.

>> And so we don't we don't continue. We don't continue. >> Um >> how much is Okay. Is it a community college? You said, Kelly, she's in.

>> It's a junior college. Yeah. Okay. So, what is this semester in housing going to cost you?

>> It will cost um $1,100. Okay.

>> Total. >> Yeah. It's not too bad. Yeah. Over the whole semester. >> Yeah. Like I said, I would I would budget like $3,000. So, we're going to cover this and we're going to give you this amount of money and um our support is ending at that point. Sorry.

>> Okay.

No more chances. >> It's not a It's not a chances. It's not a It's not a This didn't work. We tried to do this and it was not something that we're It's not something that we're participating in anymore.

>> I don't It's not a And there's not a big corrective We're not going to make a big speech, okay, about all these things and because it is it just is what it is, >> okay? >> And so, um, you've you've tried to do

corrective things and they didn't work.

>> Yeah. >> You mentioned several of them. Okay. So, I'll give you an example. All right. When someone that is working here at Ramsey, we've got 1100 folks is not

working out, they're they're they're not competent or they've got a behavior issue or something, we sit down with them and say, "Look, this is a problem.

We got to fix this." And I'll walk with you while we fix it. And but if we don't fix it, it's going to be a thing. And then we sit down again and then we sit down again. And then we sit down again and then we say, "Okay, you have 30 days." And during that time, if you, you

know, there's a zero tolerance, you're going to be not doing this behavior anymore. Okay? And if they do it again, then we don't even wait the end of the 30 days. As soon as they do that, the next morning we sit down and that conversation when they leave is one minute.

>> We we've already had all the conversations. >> Mhm. That conversation is simply the decision has been made that today's your last day at Ramsey.

>> Okay, >> that's about it.

>> And then we, you know, wrap up all the key fobs and the computers and the cell phones, that stuff, right? But I mean, it's administrative at that point. But we're not going to, we're not doing a corrective, you know, if you had just done this. No, we're not doing all that.

It's just your last day. It's just today

your last day. That simple. Because if you had done all this, that was in the 90 days previous. You've already passed all that. You're you're done.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Tucker in Wisconsin. My wife and I just started babyep three. Our 10-year-old is in dance lessons and so far we have been able to cover the cost. That bill will soon include travel expenses for competitions. My wife wants us to use

what we have in the emergency fund to cover the extra expenses, but I'd prefer to save as much as possible to keep cash flowing the costs while making minimum payments on our debt. Our combined income is $150,000. We still have a credit card, but we'll cut it up when baby step three is completed. Uh, who is correct on how to pay the expenses?

Okay. Well, Tucker, you're not in baby step three if you're still paying minimum payments on your debt. So, you still have debt. So, you're not on baby step three. Um, I mean, and who's technically correct? I mean, you would be. It's not an emergency. This I mean, you guys know that if you're doing a competitive sport that when beginning of seasons start and when things are due, you you know when that's coming. You may not know the exact price tag for it, but you know,

you know, you know ahead of time. So, it's well, you don't know what the cost.

I mean, there there may you may not have the exact specific number, but you should know the range and what's what's happening um with schedules. At least that's how it is with our three kids. I know when you know, we just signed up for soccer this week for the spring and I always know in December it's this.

It's, you know, but they, you know, kick up the fees a little bit each year, whatever it may look like. So, but but it's not, you know, it's coming. So, that's not it's not an emergency. and

making sure that you guys have the money for it, too, cuz you guys are still on baby step two. You're still trying to pay off this debt. >> No, you're you're not on a baby step while you still have a credit card. You need to cut it up right now. And then you're in baby step two until you get your debts paid off. You shouldn't have anything in the emergency fund except $1,000. And broke people don't travel

with 10year-old dance competitions. And

you're broke people.

It's sad.

It's heartbreaking. >> What is sad that the 10-year-old's not >> No one will remember this [laughter] in 10 months. Especially the 10 month or the 10-year-old only the angry wife who's living her life through a 10-year-old dance competition. So, no.

No. This is just >> you just don't do this. You just don't.

I mean, it's like your family is in jeopardy. You're in debt and you have no money. and we're prioritizing a 10year-old dance competition over that.

That's so screwed up it's not even addressable. Okay. No, >> there could be a whole hour on youth

sports, kids, travel. I mean, it is though. It's it is the emotional prior prioritization of it all.

>> Even if you've got the money, even if you got the money, it's a different thing. But but uh I mean, we had the money. Daniel's playing ice hockey and we figured out pretty quick he's not going to be in the NHL. And so, >> well, I'll be tacky and say, "We have the money, but we choose to do wreck sports and not travel." And that's our [laughter] That's exactly what I said.

>> So, you're going to do it here and and then we're going to go home and have a family and do other stuff. So, and I'm not paying 25,000 bucks for you to so you can have a vacation with your 10-year-old buddies. No, I'm sorry. No, not doing it. So, >> which is crazy that again it's that's such a these days such a controversial take. >> Yeah. Well, >> do you know what I mean? No, no, no. Well, I mean I I mean we're >> so easy to stir up a controversy today.

>> It's No, I know. But I'm just saying the world today. Papa Dave >> common sense is so rare having it as I'm

serious though in the in this year literally when you talk to parents Deloney talks about this too and and it's not a value system. I'm not saying I I won't say but it is this and and a

lot of it is fearbased. if they're if they're not doing it in elementary school, they're not going to make a middle school team. If they don't make the middle school team, they're not going to make the high school team. And then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. Like that that's the feeling people have.

>> That's the I'm telling you, the amount of drug the amount of feeling like if they don't get if they don't start now, they're not they're not going to make it. They're not going to do anything. And it's not even worried about college or professional. It really is.

People are so concerned about high school when the kids are in third grade and so they're starting to >> if you want to pay for some of this stuff, it's fine. But you need to be not broke when you're paying for. You don't need to go on vacation either when you're broke. Don't don't you know don't write in here and say, you know, my wife wants to use the emergency fund to go on a cruise.

No, you're broke people.

people don't go on cruises. That's dumb.

Work your butt off. Build up some cash where you're not broke and then go on a cruise. Hello. Then you can actually enjoy the cruise. But this fake it stuff and I'm just going to walk around act like this isn't going on. I mean, you have debt and you have no money. You're broke, people.

So, act like you're broke when you're broke. And, you know, live like no one else and pay a price and then later you can do whatever you want to do. And and if then you want to do uh 10-year-old

dance competitions, travel,

then we can argue about whether that's even wise, but that's a different discussion. Right now, it's not even on the table to have the discussion. So now, and so you're actually both wrong,

Tucker. You're not in baby step three.

You're not in a baby step. You're still farting around with your credit card, acting like you're going to be okay. And so, you know, you're just wandering around over here. And then she's over here at dance competition. So, both of you, you're not ready to get out of, you're not really doing this stuff yet.

You're going to have to get serious about it. Like, your freaking life depends on it. Like, whether this little girl goes to college, that matters.

And the number of girls that go to college on a dance scholarship is precisely close to almost zero. Okay?

There's a handful. It's like the number of kids that actually play D1 sports and have a scholarship. Almost zero as a percentage of those that graduate from high school that played sports. So, I mean, and then try leaving college and go to the NA NFL. Oh, yeah. There's like a 0.1% chance of that. So, let's just

keep let's just track this whole thing all the way forward. The chances of you ending up there is really close to zero.

So, what she'll have is a little trophy and a memory of a Three Dog Night song

when she's 30. That's what she's really going to have from the dance competition. Nothing else. >> A three dog night song. >> I just made that up.

You got to have [laughter] an old You got to have an old 70s tune in your dance competition, right?

>> Don't you Isn't that like a requirement?

>> Oh man. >> I think dance competitions should have to have an old 70s. >> Dave is just showing his age. >> I just think I think that's possible.

Maybe Eagles. I don't know. Whatever you want to do. Heart. I don't care. I mean, but this is what it is. It's not >> Yes. Yes. >> You did you did cheerleading and competition cheerleading. >> No, I did not. I did not. >> No, you went to a class. You were in a little camp thing one time. >> Yes. I did pay for that. did a weekly a weekly. Yes. At the local. That's different than competitive competitive.

Yes. >> But we had no illusion that you were going to end up >> making $10,000 being a Titans cheerleader. [laughter] >> What I'm saying though is >> what do they make? They make about 10 grand, don't they?

>> Let me say this. The parents today though, I think is less about them becoming professional athletes and it's more about this their childhood experiences and them being involved in something and being the best at it so that they can do it in middle school and high school. Like I you know what I mean? Like I feel like it's a lot about >> really.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I mean I'm sure there's some it's probably the dudes and their sons that are like he's going to play professional ball. I don't know.

>> I guess >> but at least for like most of the people I know they still do competitive and travel. A lot of our friends do and they know their kid isn't going to make it but they do it cuz kind of everyone does it. Like if you want to play at a competitive level they all do these like crazy leagues. I don't know.

>> Whatever everyone does is >> I know. I'm just saying though like like I feel like an outsider.

Like we're one of the only families that doesn't do I know I'm just so proud of you >> saying the reality. No. And it's not a pat on Rachel's back. This is we just don't want to >> travel for kids sports.

And right now we've >> it's it's a never say never. But for our for our 10year-old we are not. >> As for me and my house. >> As for me and my house.

But it's a real thing y'all. It's real. And it's not just our area. It's all over.

you don't need to go on vacation and you don't need to be spending huge amounts of money on children's sports or dance competitions when you're in debt and you're broke. Okay, guys, that's just not smart.

at the lake. No, you're broke. People

don't do this. This is how people just It's a form of denial. And denial is not just a river in Egypt.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Heat. Hey, Heat.

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>> [music]

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[music]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it?

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with us in Virginia. Hi Bri, how are you? >> I'm so good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, this is so cool. Um, so my question

is my husband lost his job last week and

I think we are finally at the point of being sick and tired of feeling sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck.

But I feel like I have a hard time getting my husband to have that same gazelle intensity because of how many sacrifices he feels our kids will have to make >> um with the debt paying off process. So how do I get him and I to have that same intensity?

what kind of sacrifices does he see it for the kids?

>> So, I think it's a little more

um to to provide just a little context.

Um he was a teen dad to two kids. We had two kids in high school. Um the mom's not in the picture and they kind of had a little bit of a tumultuous childhood growing up until he got full custody.

Then I came into the picture and I'm um their mom now. And so I think he holds on to a lot of guilt about just their childhood. and then trying to plan out, you know, >> how long ago was all that? >> How long it's gonna take? Um, he got full custody in 2018.

>> Okay. So, seven years.

>> It's in in the rear of your marriage. >> And how old are they now?

>> High school. >> They're 16 and 17. So, by the time we

get it paid off, we feel like they're going to be out of the house. And

it's it's hard to like think about saying no to them now and then they're going to be gone. And we have a toddler who I feel like is going to reap the benefits of the decisions we're >> making now. And it just it's a lot of

guilt. >> Mhm. >> For both of us. >> I would be guil I would feel guilty if I was financially irresponsible and that was the last message I gave them before they left home.

>> Yeah.

>> We're going to pretend like none of this matters because you're 17 and it was rough when you were 10. And so we're going to spend like we're in Congress and put ourselves deeply in debt and screw up our finances further,

>> right? >> As our way of saying sorry, we it was tough when you were eight and that's the gift we're going to give you is model this very poorly for you.

>> Well, that's kind of silly.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean I mean Bri, I think there's

I don't know for for him. I'm like, I want him, your husband, to have a level of um seeing this that

yeah, there may be some sacrifices. You may not be able to do the trip, but also to remember that, you know, when your kids just because they are off in college, I know life looks different, but they also are still around. You know, you guys can still go and do things with them. And it's not like

parenting just stops at 18, right? I mean, it's like a relationship just ends. it continues on. And I know things

look different and all of that and things will change. They're not in the house, but honestly too, I think, you know, being present with them and them having a dad that's emotionally and spiritually connected to them and timewise is with them and you know what I mean? Like the relationship aspect is probably what's going to take them a lot further for their future. Their father facing his demons and changing his ways is way more important than him taking them to Disney. Right.

Right. Yeah.

>> It just is. I mean, so here here's the thing. My friend Andy Andy And Andrew said, and I used it a lot when our kids were at home, even that we're not trying to raise great kids.

>> We're trying to raise kids that become great adults.

So, plug that formula into this situation.

>> And the best gift I can give these two teenagers is a dad who's saying, "You

know what? I haven't done well with this money thing and I'm gonna start right now and for the last couple years you're here, you're going to see me doing this right. That's the good news. The bad news is it means we're not going to get to do some things that maybe we would have done when I was irresponsible.

>> So, can I can I ask how does that look like practically? Like we're not obviously planning any trips to Disney or anything like that. Um, but like with like Christmas and then we have like three birthdays right after >> we didn't cancel Christmas or birthdays.

We just didn't buy a new we didn't buy a new BMW for Christmas, >> right? My stepson has to go bowling. Do

we say like that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. We're like, do we say >> what's your household income?

>> He just lost his job Friday. Um, but

>> he's has some promise. Like I think he has some good things coming hopefully this week. Um, but I mean it was like 130. So >> Okay. And what do you make?

>> I'm just I'm part-time. I make 20 bucks an hour. I only 25 uh hours a week.

>> Okay. So we have $130,000 household income, give or take when he lands the new position. >> How much debt do you guys have? >> How much debt are you carrying? Yeah.

>> 29,643.

>> Oh, Bri. Yeah, y'all can do this.

>> So lay out a budget and say there's only this much entertainment. There's only this much. and we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation, but we can do a little bit of this. We can do a little bit of that and we're going to as a family, we're going to tick off

$29,000.

You guys are going to watch it happen, too. >> Yeah. Do it in a year.

>> Yeah. >> That's That's what I hope. That's what I'm I'm really hoping. >> It's not 130 minus 30 is 100.

>> Want after taxes? after taxes, you'll be

living on 70 or whatever.

>> Oh, well, >> I know, but I'm just saying. >> I mean, do it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But but you can't use the excuse of my children are going to suffer because your children are going to suffer more watching a father and mother who are irresponsible, >> right? They watch everything we do.

>> They're going to do what you do. >> More is caught than taught. They're watching you. >> Yeah.

Absolutely. So, yeah, that I'm more concerned about that than anything else. >> Yeah. So, I mean, you guys do what you want to do, but that that would be my motivation.

>> And again, the great and let me say this, too. I mean, and again, I think I'm just in the middle of it because we're kind of in the Christmas season with little kids at home, but and and even looking back on my childhood, the things that you remember, the memories that you have, the things that actually shape who you are as an adult of what we're saying, that bring you to the workplace, that bring you into a marriage, that bring you as a parent is not the birthday gifts, right?

doing a puzzle even right I mean it's like you >> I mean I was talking I was being interviewed this morning >> it's a big deal it really is >> I was being interviewed on a radio station this morning and the guy was asking me about this video that's going around about the what Christmas gift you get last year and the kid doesn't know yeah >> but what experience they remember every detail about the trip and I said well your your sister's 40 >> and she could not tell you a single gift she got at 8 n 10 11 12 years old but she can tell you at 8 10, 10, 11 years old.

midnight. We were in church lighting candles on Christmas Eve [clears throat] >> and the kids are asleep in my lap.

>> And she can give you that memory and paint it so clearly in HD

>> 30 years later. Mom spilling wax on a

lady's coat in front of us one year when I was probably dripped on a mink. I mean, you do. Those are the That's like It's things like that >> that you remember and that sh >> we don't know what we got for Christmas that year. >> No. >> So, it's not to say don't buy something for Christmas. >> No. No. But it's just out of control.

>> But it is the mindset and the perspective that I think has gotten so out of whack that if we don't do this or buy this for our kids, somehow we're harming them. And what I'm saying is an experience that has to cost nothing is the thing that's going to shape and mold you. And it's the Tuesday nights at home and having a family dinner. Like those are the things that create good healthy adults.

>> It's not the crap that you buy. It's really not. And is bowling fun? Yes, absolutely.

Go, you know, take them bowling. But again, even the bowling experience is not the thing that shapes who they are. It's having a dad >> who is present, who is talking to them, who knows them, is relational.

trying to raise kids that are great adults it changes the discussion >> who are resilient during hard times and maybe they have a hard year because they don't get to buy what they want but that's resilience >> I heard the word no what we can't say

that that's illegal. >> Y'all are doing great, Bri though. To your points, yes, you are [music] starting. If you guys do this, you're changing the trajectory and not of not only of those teenagers, but that toddler that's in your house, too. So, yeah, we are we're cheering you guys on for sure.

[music]

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David is in Indianapolis. Hi, David. How are you?

>> Good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, long story short, I just checked my

uh my statements from my financial advisor last month for been the first time in a couple month. Anyway, looking at them, it only looks like I've seen about 7% growth this year and uh

was wondering if I should fire him and look for someone else.

>> What does he have you invested in? Do you know? >> It's supposed to be aggressive growth

supposedly. As far as the individual funds, I'm not 100% sure on.

>> Yeah, >> I just figured this out. I just figured this out on Friday.

>> Have you contacted them

and asked any questions?

>> I haven't I did contact I did not ask about the retirement. I did contact them to figure out why. This is another issue. Uh my deposits I made into my money market account were not being actually used and they were just sitting there not gaining interest either. Oh gosh.

You had money in your money market account that he has access to that he's supposed to pull each month money from to invest and he's not done that.

>> Okay. There's some couple things wrong with the equation.

>> All right. Um you probably should fire him, but not for the reasons that you're saying. You're griping about the rate of return and you don't even know what the mutual fund is. It's your responsibility to know what that is. Your financial advisor's job is not to babysit you.

Their job is to teach you and you make your decisions. And then if you don't like the returns, it's the return. It's due to your choices.

But you don't even know what's going on. You just toss the money over the fence and hoped he handled it well. And that's a good way to lose everything.

So I guess my next question would be

is that something that you would

is that something you know so I I paid somewhat close attention to the market listen to you guys listen to other financial podcasts. What kind of open my eyes to was I seeing that the S&P 500 has grown 14 and a half% something like that this year. >> 17. Yeah >> 17. Um >> and you made seven. So something screwed up. Yeah I agree with you. screwed up.

But here here's my point, okay? I do not

have any mutual funds with my financial

advisor that I didn't choose.

Not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but because that's what we teach people to do. Your financial advisor's job is to be a teacher and say, "Here's some things you could do. Here's the historical data on this mutual fund, and it's one I might look at if I were you." And you go, "Yeah, I like that." and I'm going to make the choice to make the purchase based on having been informed and then if it doesn't perform, I made the choice, not him.

And it was just a miss. Okay? Because you pick some funds that didn't even if they're aggressive growth, they ought to be outperforming the S&P on uh sub substantially.

Um, unless there's some kind of I don't know what you picked, but I mean it you could be in all kinds of sector funds or something else. I don't know what you got into, but I I want you to know what

you're doing. And so, like, this is the way you hear these sports figures that lose everything like they make $10 million, they they then they're broke or something. It's cuz they turn it over to some guy and go, "My guy's handling it." And then they don't even look at it. And turns out in that case, the guy's a scam artist or whatever, or he's a doofus, one of the two. I I I I mean I think the guy just handed you some mutual funds.

Half looked at him. You half looked at him and y'all chose poorly is what it sounds like.

So what I want him to do is to take up a new position if you're going to keep him. Probably wouldn't. And and that to be the heart of a teacher. And what I want you to do is not look for a babysitter, but have the heart of a student.

>> And he should be presenting you with these ideas, too, right? I mean, you're not This is why you hire someone is to do it. and to to show you and to give

you options. Like that's what our adviser does. It's like here here's >> but then you know what it is.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know exactly what it is.

>> So I guess that's you know what's my

biggest question for him I guess would be what's the benefit of paying you when I can open an account on Vanguard Schwaffer whatever and just throw it in a S&P 500.

>> Yeah. You can go buy a Vanguard S&P and throw it all in there and you made 17%.

That That's called passive investing.

Okay. That's called passive investing. >> What I'm paying him to do. >> Yeah. Well, no. What you're paying him to do is not to is to show you mutual

funds that are outperforming the S&P

and then and then you decide if you think they're going to continue to do that. I buy mutual funds through my investment advisor. There's 8,000 mutual funds. I I mean, I grew up in this stuff and I'm not going to comb through all that crap.

That' drive me nuts. Okay, I'm not that big a nerd. So, I call him up.

fund, and a fourth in growth in income.

We put a fourth in each in my in my retirement. And I want all three of those to over a 10-year period of time or longer to have an outperformed the S&P. And they're hard to find, but you can find them. They're not if they've got the software to pull that up and they pull up three or four. We look at them together. We go, "Okay, do we which ones of these do we think?" We talk about it together and then we make the choice together. I'm not paying him to

be a stock picker.

>> Okay. >> I'm paying him to man help me manage my

money. >> Yeah. And also a great financial advisor is looking at more than just your 401k and your investments. They're looking over your entire financial portfolio.

They're looking at your house taxes, the give I mean like they're able to look at everything and I think for that's where I see the benefit is having everything in one place now. Yeah. Is the Vanguard option there? Absolutely.

But I would even bring that to a financial advisor say I have this over here with me. Put that in my portfolio so I can look at the whole picture. Right. So, I don't know.

That's ours has helped us, you know, do things that I'm like, "Oh, well, that's creative.

it's great, >> but they don't they didn't call you up and tell you they did it.

>> No, >> they call you up and say, "Here's an idea. You all understand the idea, and then do we implement the idea?" >> Yes. There is a >> and whether it's a mutual fund purchase or whether it's a a tax move or whatever it is. >> But David, you look for people to manage your money. You manage your money with the help of an adviser. Yes, you can outperform the market if you do that.

>> Okay. Can I tell you though, there's a lot of that of what David just said moving right now in people aren't wanting financial advisors. They're just wanting to go and invest themselves. Opening a Vanguard.

That's what a lot of people are feeling. >> Well, the S&P 500, the bogal heads have been around forever. Okay. That's not That's not new.

>> No, I know it's not new, but I'm saying more and more people are not the traditional, hey, I'm going to go and I need a financial adviser to get me in the space is >> you don't need one to get you in the space. You need one to maximize the space. >> That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying though is that I it's more I'm I'm hearing more and more people >> people that have a financial advisor have a higher likelihood of staying in when the news on the when the when Trump burps and the market goes down, they stay in.

And the people that stay in are the ones that make money and they have a higher probability of picking better mutual funds because they're getting actual they're learning.

smart vester pro on ramsolutions.com

has to have the heart of a teacher or we won't put him in Ramsey trusted. We won't put him in there >> or her in there. Okay. And so and you

know and most of them make a percentage of the um of the amount under management

is what they get. Usually 1% or so.

That's about what they get paid. And so they need to be doing something that outperforms by 1% the market >> otherwise they're not worth their money so to speak. >> So uh yeah you you know you get in that but yeah but you can it's it's the Bogle

Bogle started Vanguard and they're called Bogleheads and his premise and his premise was correct. he's he was a genius was that the S&P 500 outperforms

more than half of the mutual funds.

So if you just blindly go pick a mutual fund, you'd have been better off to pick the S&P 500 index was his point. Yeah.

>> And that's why he started a no commission, no load S&P 500 at Vanguard.

And it's the famous thing in the stock market history. And so people that say, "I'm not going to think about this. I'm just going to dump it into S&P 500 and

I'm and I'll at least make what the stock market makes and I'll outperform more than 50% of the mutual funds by doing that. Those are called bogleheads.

>> Okay? And they're not new just cuz Tik Tok came along. >> No, I'm not saying they're new. I'm just saying I'm hearing it more [music] and more. >> People have the access to it. I've heard Dave Ramsey's a crook for 35 years because I told people not to do that and go get go pay a commission to outperform bogalheads. And Dave Ramsey's not a crook. I'm a genius.

You are

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

There's a lot of discussion in America today about the 20somes, the Jenzers, and the

Millennials having an affordability

crisis.

A lot of it is centered towards home buying, but it's also just in general life is too expensive.

We don't make enough.

Capitalism is failing us and whatever.

And there is a serious pinch

on these two generations.

But it is not because things are too expensive. It is because the large banks

and the car companies and the US Congress have conspired to screw them.

We have record credit card debt, the most ever.

What's in your wallet? says the actor

on the commercial

over and over and over and over again.

They've been brainwashed to believe by the big banks that if I use a credit card, I can

prosper with the points and the airline miles, which is mathematically ludicrous.

They've been brainwashed by the lending industry that if they have a high FICO score that they are somehow winning when 100% of the mathematical items in the

algorithm for the FICO score are debt related.

You can inherit a million dollars and your FICO score doesn't change a point.

Your boss could give you a million dollar a year raise in your salary and your FICO score doesn't change a point.

It is not a financial health score. It is how much you've been screwed by City

Bank and Fifth Third and these large

banks and Ford Motor Company and General

Motors credit and Chrysler credit and Lexus credit. Need I go on with all the credits?

20% of the borrowers that left a the car

lot last month left with a car payment over $1,000 a

month. When you have a $1,000 a month

car payment or three

and you're really running up the credit card debt because you're chasing the FICO score that you've been taught to do

by these villains,

you have affordability issues. Add to

that, we've got 18 year olds that are loaned a $100,000 and the loan is guaranteed to be paid by

the US government.

What bank won't make this loan? Because they're 100% guaranteed to get their money. It's called a guaranteed student loan. And so, of course, they're going to want to loan this money. So, they loan $100,000 to an 18-year-old who can't buy beer.

and they choose a school based on the fact that the street is pretty in front of the school.

This is combined to create a two

generations that are completely handcuffed by these mega banks, the US Congress and

these car companies. And there's where your affordability crisis is coming from. Yes, if you're in Gen Z, you're feeling a pinch, but you also signed up for it, darling.

And these companies are screwing you.

And I think you ought to say enough is enough. If you want to get pissed off at something, it's not capitalism.

It's that you got screwed by the mega banks and you need to go back to something like a credit union or a small town local bank where they're not trying to screw you with every transaction.

>> You're making so much money. Yeah. Newsweek. Newsweek is reporting you may not be asking for more credit, but your bank systems were giving it to you anyway. Bank initiated credit limit increases. Four and five credit limit

increases in the United States are initiated by the bank rather than requested by the customers. So what's happening with your credit cards is they're sending you a notice that says, "Oh, we looked at your situation and you're so valuable that now you don't have a $5,000 limit. You have an $8,000 limit. You weren't even up to 5,000.

You weren't limited, but you now think that you can spend this, and so you go and spend again. Borrowers largely end up using the extra credit.

affordability issues. And evidence shows that borrowers they're altering their spending with changes in their credit limit even if they weren't previously constrained by the credit limit. So it's it's the mental game we talk about that to say that oh okay, you know that I'll spend as much with a credit card than a debit card proves to show you if you feel like you have a large amount of money to spend, >> you will spend it. They're altering their spending without even realizing it because the limits are increasing by the banks.

And then some on Tik Tok who was taught by his communist college professor that capitalism is bad is saying, "Oh, socialism is the answer." When the problem is not socialism or capitalism. The problem is these banks have been screwing an entire generation and no one's standing up for them.

We're going to kick your butt while we're doing it cuz we love you and we want you to get out of debt. So, stop jumping in the bear trap and then expecting not to have your leg torn off.

Of course, you're going to have pain when you jump in the bear trap. Stay away from the bear trap. These people are not your friends. I know they have a

glittering little smile. And Bradley Cooper is is camping out in the lobby. I

couldn't give a crap less.

It's the most advertised and marketed product on the planet. this thing called

debt. These people's job is to screw

you. And if you don't make it your job to quit being screwed, then you're going to have affordability issues, honey, because you're going to be what we call broke people.

So stand up and say, "I've had it. I'm

not We're not going to take it anymore." Play the old rock song, right? We're not going to take it anymore. And you know, I've had it. I'm not living like this, and I'm not going to play these people's games. If you want to be pissed off at something, don't be pissed off at capitalism. Capitalism is not your problem. Your problem is you stepped up into the bear trap and the bear ate you.

And it wasn't capitalism. It was a bank and a car company and a system that

redefined success improperly for you.

This is not success.

You are not successful when you have a high FICO score. All it means is you gave the bank a whole bunch of interest.

That's all a FICO score. Say, I have an 800 FICO score. And when someone tells me that, I always say, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

That's like saying I have high blood pressure and bragging about it. No, thank you. Don't do that. I'm so sorry.

So, if you want to fix your affordability, if you want this generation to fix their affordability issues, they can buy a house when they don't have $1,200 car payments.

and $150,000 student loan debt on a

degree in left-handed puppetry because

they were sold a lie that any degree is valuable and every degree is not valuable.

Oh, and your FICO score [music] is not a measure of financial wealth or health. It's a measure of how much you've been screwed.

When you get that right, you're going to get this whole affordability thing fixed. Boys and girls.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Tony is in Tallahassee. Hi Tony. How are you? >> All right. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, my question is I got a bunch of sterling silver I've been saving up. I started back in 2015 2017

and uh I was wondering if I should sell it and turn around and reinvested in

silver coins instead of the

sterling. >> Mhm. Okay.

Um well I don't buy precious metals as

an investment. I don't buy silver as an investment. >> So I would not since I don't do it I don't advise other people to do it. And the my reasoning is very simple. The rate of return sucks.

>> Well, I've already made like 66%

increase on what I've already purchased.

Like I said, I bought it in 2015 when the stock when the silver was about $15$20 an ounce.

>> Mhm. >> And I've already, you know, Yeah.

>> got 66% return on my investment already.

But I want to get rid of the uh sterling

and invest that into silver coins.

>> I mean 2015 you said, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Yeah. It was about $16 an ounce.

And I'm looking at a chart, right?

>> Right. >> And it hovered at $16 an ounce up until about five months ago. So all of your

return has come in a recent spike. It's not a steady investment. And following a recent spike in precious metals, you usually see a sharp decline. Um I I it's

a great time to sell silver. It's not a great time to buy silver.

>> No. No. That's why I'm concerned if I

should just sit on it and watch the stock market. If [snorts] it crashes, >> I would sell it and I would not be invested in silver. I mean, if you like silver, I I I would just challenge you.

Go back and look at the 50-year chart on it. Um it's basically flat with a couple

of spikes and one of them is in the last two years is the it's an unusual spike

but I mean over the last 50 years it's just kind of does nothing and then all of a sudden there's two places 2008 and now that there's a spike in the chart and that's it versus if you follow the stock market chart a good S&P 500 as an example we were talking about that earlier through that same period of time it's a steady increase.

So, you know, 23 and 24 were like 20

plus% on the S&P. The S&P to date in 25

is 17. And and so there's something last

year, three years that you're going to get your 66 pretty quick >> in that. And so, uh, in a shorter period of time than you got 66. And I don't think that's realistic in the stock market, by the way. But, but that's what has actually happened during the same period of time that you made 66 on the silver. And so I think your number's right. By the way, I'm not saying I'm not challenging your number. I'm just challenging that it's such an un it's an anomaly within the space. And I don't

buy things based on anomalies. I buy things based on trends and steady charting. You see, I'm going to see the chart go like steadily up up up.

>> Yeah. And this chart with silver on your computer, it is >> it's all over the map. >> Flat and a little spike and then flat and then a little spike and that's it.

And so I I'm, you know, I don't buy stuff like >> sell it now, Tony. Sell it all. Get out of it and you'll make the most you probably will make. >> Yeah. If you wait, it's going to drop.

And when you and you're going to lose the money that you made or that you haven't made because you haven't sold it. But there you go. Caroline's in Austin, Texas. Hey Caroline, what's up?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm a millennial and I was

one of the millennials that did the stupid thing of like go to school and take out like whatever loans to get the dream job. I did it. I got the dream job. Now I'm 35. Um, including our

house, our remaining school loans, and

the final the final items on our our list where our debts listed smallest to largest. My husband and I now our remaining debt is we have including the house, our school loans, um his car, and

uh a business credit card from when he ran his business, we have about $260,000

in debt. >> How much of that is your mortgage? Our

mortgage, we owe 122 on our house.

>> Okay. So, you have 140,000 in miscellaneous debt. How much of that is student loans?

>> Um, I owe 93,000 and my husband owes

22,000. >> So, 110 of the 140. So, the car and the

credit cards and all that are about 30.

>> Yes. Yeah. The vehicle is is 9 grand.

>> And your household income your household income is what?

Um, I make 85 a year, 85 grand a year, and my husband now makes 130k a year.

Um, we just established this income. Um,

uh, um, >> pretty much I was the bread winner during the pandemic. >> Um, we've been working the baby steps since 2018. Pre- pandemic, I was rolling like an extra thousand towards my >> How much have you paid off since 2018 to get to here?

>> Um, I So I So I went to school for 10 years. Now, you said in 2018 you started the baby steps. I ask how much you've been paid off since 2018.

>> I paid off $40,000 in my school loans.

>> So, you've been working them very hard.

>> Um, so my husband lost his job and then we had two babies. Oh. During the pandemic. >> All right. So, you really but you really made almost no progress on your baby steps as bottom line. Okay. Yeah. All right. >> Um, we we listed our smallest to largest debt. We paid off six of the We have 11

items on the list. We paid off six. So, the remaining items are my husband's car, >> the credit card for my husband's business. >> I got it. >> And then the student loans in the house.

>> Um, so I received an inheritance of about 600,000 in assets.

>> Whoa. Two.

>> Yes. Praise God.

>> Awesomeness. >> Two So, so 234,000 is cash and that's in

a savings account. um $100,000 is in

Exxon stock and then um um the other

remaining asset of that 600,000 is farmland that's valued at 250,000.

>> So you could sell everything but the farmland and be debtree.

>> Yes, >> do it. >> Um so so um I so I so my kids are two two

and three. >> Wait a minute. Stop. I I don't want to hear any more stories. Why would you not do that?

So, I I'm trying to figure out how to take a career pause. So, I want to go I'm I'm Is it dumb to just try to pay off >> if you paid off everything and kept the farmland and had a paid for house and paid for farmland and zero debt? No, you

wouldn't have a st You wouldn't have a mattress. You wouldn't have any debt. No mortgage, no nothing.

>> Your husband makes what?

>> 130. >> 130. >> And you want to quit and come home and live on 130? Sure, you could do that.

And then our savings would be nothing.

Wouldn't that be unwise?

>> Your savings would be nothing.

>> You'd have you'd have the farmland. No, it's not unwise. You have a $130,000 income and zero debt. You ought to be able to invest now and start investing.

>> Okay. Okay. >> How old are you? You said you're 30. You said you're 35. >> I'm I'm 35 and I want to take a pause by the time I'm 38. >> Yeah. So, take have at it. Take a take a

take a calculator. Pull it up. Pull up pull it up at ramseyolutions.com. Okay, pull up our our retirement calculator and put in these numbers. Okay, >> 15% of 130,000,

>> okay? >> For 30 years, >> okay? >> And that's going to be about $17,000 a about about 1,500 bucks a month. That's if your husband never gets a raise and you never go back to work and you save 15% of your income.

>> When you put that in for 35 years, you're going to see $5 million or $6 million.

Okay. And we'd own our house and we'd have no debt. All that time you'd have no debt. 6 million. Yeah. All that time you'd have no debt. The farmland's going up, the family land, and your house is going up and you're going to go back to work and he's going to get raises. So, you're going to end up with $10 million.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. Thanks. This is exactly what I needed to pay all the debt. And I Okay, cool. But you got to do the whole thing. Okay. You can't just >> Yeah. >> You can't just go, "Oh, well, something happened." No, no, no, no, no. another happen. We're putting this money aside.

>> And Caroline, you know, it's been 8 years of you guys working this plan. Like you and there's car loans in here and all of it, right? Like you you guys Yeah. You guys have to agree that if we're going to go this debtree route, we're going to live that way for the rest of our lives.

>> If we get ready to buy a car, we have to save up and pay for it. If we're going on vacation, we have to save up and pay for it >> or we can't go. >> Absolutely. I've owned my car since 2015.

>> But your husband has. >> Yeah.

>> You haven't owned his car. Quit doing that stuff. Okay. >> It's exciting though, Caroline. You guys can do this. >> This is awesome. You're in great shape, but you can't fall back off the wagon and hit the numbers I'm talking about.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Christmas is almost here. Our deals are still going strong though. Grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer and it's [music] not much time to ship stuff. We got to get it to you. Rachel Cruz sitting right to my right has three kids book. One on gratit great books. One on gratitude, one on generosity, one on contentment. They're on sale right now. They're incredible.

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for audio books and ebooks. Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Eugene and Carol are with us. Hey guys, what's up? >> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. We're so excited to be here. >> We're glad to have you. I see on my screen you guys are baby steps millionaires. Tell us what your net worth is.

So Dave, it is about $2,326,000.

>> Good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How's that 2 million broken out? >> Yes. So about 950,000 is the home which we bought 12 years ago

for 375. So >> Mhm. >> We're blessed with that. Retirement little bit about a million 003.

Emergency fund 98,000.

>> Mhm. Um, for the college, we have done

for the kids about $175,000.

We have two of them. They're 13 and 12.

And in cars, we have three vehicles. All

pay for about $70,000, the three of them combined.

>> And And how much of this did you all inherit?

>> Zero. >> Zero. >> Zero. I like it. Okay. And your age is

right now, how old are you?

>> I'm 44. >> Mhm. and I'm 47.

>> Cool. And what were your careers or are your careers?

>> Um I have an MBA.

>> And I'm in sales.

>> And you're what, Eugene?

>> I'm in sales. >> Sales. Okay. And what was your career, Carol, with your MBA?

>> Um I worked um in marketing. I worked in

marketing, director of marketing for a long time. >> And what's the most you guys have made as a couple in a year?

about 200,000. >> Okay. And what's the worst year you had as a couple income?

>> Um probably in the beginning when we first started, we were each making about 30,000 a year.

>> Okay. So 60 to 200 was the range. You're 44 and 47. You have 2.3 million. You did not inherit any of it. What was your GPA

in college?

>> Mine was 3.8 and Eugene 3.2.

>> Okay. All right. Smart but not geniuses.

I like it. Very good. [laughter] >> No, not at all.

>> What do you What do you drive, Eugene?

>> So, I have Well, after becoming millionaires, um, I bought for my wife a

brand new van, Toyota Sienna that she wanted it. We upgraded her 8-year-old Sienna. >> Mhm. >> And I just got a You're going to love this, Rachel. A Model Y, a Tesla.

>> I knew I liked you. I knew I liked you.

And the minivan. Y'all are like our favorite. I mean, you're you're running an 8-year-old minivan, right? [laughter] No, >> a brand new one >> that we have that we have bought pre doing the baby steps. Yeah. >> Oh, you bought the van eight years ago.

>> Yeah. When they got the first one? Yeah.

>> Yeah. We So, Dave, when we started the baby steps, we downgraded. I had a really leather seat interior minivan.

And we went down to club seats cuz we had to get on the plan. And so after we became debtree, Eugene's like, "Okay, we're going to go buy you your dream car, which is a van." >> Yes. [laughter] >> With letter C's and all the bells and whistles. >> I get it. >> Okay. So, you're in Miami and I hear an accent. What is your heritage?

>> We are from Colia.

>> Our parents are from Colombia. Carl was actually born here in New Jersey.

>> Beautiful family. >> We see the picture. >> Thank you. >> But I came from Colombia when I was 19

years old. Okay. >> With two rolling backs and $90 in my pocket and >> wow, >> you know, we've been blessed.

>> Amazing. >> Yeah, you've worked your tails off. >> The American dream is what you've experienced. It's incredible.

Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'all.

Way to go, guys. Well, I got to ask you, and I know the answer, but I got to ask you, can it still be done today?

>> Absolutely. It can still be done. Um, you know, you sometimes you ask people, what would you say to your younger self?

So it's um you know this is built on on

consistency not on income. Um you got to

get on financial peace, get on a written budget. You know you have to really drink the Kool-Aid. We teach SEU and we tell people you cannot do thisish. You have to you can't do this is you have to do it fully. You have to live below your means. It absolutely can be done.

>> Uh you sometimes ask people how do you feel to be a millionaire? Honestly guys, it doesn't feel like we're millionaires.

Most of our money is tied up in retirement and real estate, so we can't >> You're driving an 8-year-old Toyota.

[laughter] >> Our still are in a budget. Even when our two kids, they have their own folder in the Every Dollar app. >> Yes. Yes. We go to $6 movies on

Tuesdays. Our kids joke around that we still live like no one else in the Jeep side that when are we going to [laughter] go to the other side?

[gasps] So, um yeah, it's been such an adventure. We're so honored, so honored uh to talk to you and and Dave, we you changed our life in in 2016 and you put

Dave, you put God put you on our path.

Um and we thought that it was possible.

Um and and we had a dream, you know, and and Proverbs says, "The fools are headstrong and they do what they like and wise people take advice." And so we >> took your advice. >> Wow. Well, we're honored to be a part of your story. You're definitely the hero in the story. very very well done. All

the way from uh from nothing from $90 in

your pocket and two roller bags to $2.3 million net worth, paid for house,

retirement's full of a million dollars.

Uh no inheritance. They did not inherit their money. So all you people that think that that's what happens, that's not what happens. What happens is sweat and calluses and consistency and focus

and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus. That's what happens. Yeah, you guys are amazing. I'm so so proud of you. Hey, thanks for sharing your story with us. Okay, >> thank you guys. It's such an honor. Well done, you guys. >> You too. >> Very cool. the I I I have decided we've

been interviewing these Baby Steps millionaires for years now and I started asking about I don't know two years ago when I'm talking to them um what car they're driving. The number of them that have a Toyota >> of some kind. Not not a Hyundai and not

a Honda. A Toyota of some kind. I don't

know what it is about Toyota.

>> They're are great cars. >> They are good cars, but it's just very interesting. It's not a It's not a used Lexus. It's a Toyota. Yep. Yep.

>> You know, and it's just over and over and over again. I hear Toyota. I hear Toyota. >> I don't usually hear Tesla. That was a new one. >> Okay. Mhm. >> That doesn't usually come up, but yeah.

>> Why am I blanking on my the toy? Oh, the Odyssey. I was like, why am I blanking on my van? The Toyota van. It's amazing.

>> Oh, yours. >> No, no, it's a Honda. Oh, mine's a Honda. Never mind. >> Yours is [laughter] a Honda. Yeah. Okay.

>> I don't know cars. Well, >> it's still It's still a minivan. A very nice minivan. But >> that's right. The Toyota Sienna. That's it. Yeah. Toyota. >> Oh, and that's what they had the Sienna.

>> They had the Sienna. Yeah, that that's But they have a Toyota. >> I hear. Yeah. I hear >> they don't match you exactly. They have minivan and a Tesla, but different brand minivan. >> That's fair. That's fair. Sorry. >> Very cool. >> I don't know why to why I loved the Toyota idea, but >> it's just I I just run into it a lot.

And the other thing is I I I find that millionaires forgot to upgrade their cars. Um, this one's not too bad, so I

didn't I didn't. But often times I'm telling, "Hey dude, go buy your wife a car." Really? I mean, a 93 Camry and you're worth $4 million. Come on, dude.

Time to upgrade the car. Pay cash for it, but it's time to upgrade it. Come on, man. Come on, man.

>> And so, the number of times I'm saying telling a millionaire that they need to upgrade their >> watch the car. >> They forgot. They just They >> will You ever Will you ever have a self-driving car? Any part of you at all? A Tesla? Like, would you ever >> I hardly ever say never on anything mechanical. I mean, I I I I cannot

visualize having a car that I have to plug in the wall. I can't get my head around it. And I can't visualize not having the the thrill of driving. I love

driving a really good car.

>> And I, you know, in and especially a nice curvy Tennessee mountain road, right? It's a lot of fun.

>> You think you're going to die if you're in the passenger seat. >> Yeah. And I'm But I No, I I think you know what is it? Phoenix has got all of the the We go or whatever they're called now. What are they called? The the self-drivers. >> Yeah. >> Oh, the the like t Yes. It's like It's like a taxi. >> Whimo. I got close. Okay. Yeah. [music] Like Henry Henry Cloud sent me a picture of riding and no >> driving. That's weird. That That's That's pretty crazy. Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with [music] much. So if you've not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? Luke 16 10

and 11. Nelson Mandela said, "Money won't create success. The freedom to make it will." Courtney is with us in

Tampa. Hi Courtney. Merry Christmas.

>> Yes. Hi. Thank you for having me.

>> Sure. What's up? I took Financial Peace University earlier this year and I'm in baby step two with about 33,000 of remaining credit card debt. Good for you. But I'm wanting to live Thank you.

in baby step seven. So, how do I handle

wanting to live generously, especially with, you know, the recent shutdown and people struggling and working in an area where I I think part of it is like I have cash in my pocket now and I want to, you know, give it to the guy that's sitting outside 7-Eleven or something, but how do I live generously and feeling like I have the means to do so, but still have my own debt to tackle?

>> Yeah. Well, um, you know, baby step two

is we're living on a detailed tight budget. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. And any money we can squeeze out of anything, extra work or under

spending or anything, we throw at the smallest debt, which would not mean there's cash in your pocket.

>> Understood. >> So, that means it's going on the smallest debt. Now, it's a really good question, though. You've got a great heart. And I will tell you that over the years of doing this that the people that are motivated by potentially becoming

outrageously generous do some of the

best work of getting out of debt and building wealth because they they have a good reason, a good why for building wealth. >> The idea that you want to be a baby step seven and give away not just pocket change but serious money and help somebody in a serious way. Uh that motivator is so noble. It's such a calling on your heart that uh it will lead you out of debt, a higher probability of getting out of debt and faster than than something that you wanted selfishly.

So, you're you're an incredible lady. I I I predict big things for you.

the same heart. We desperately wanted to be generous and had no money [laughter]

>> because all of it was going on debt. So all we did was we just did acts of service >> and you tithed. >> And so we we tithed. We give a tenth of our income. That's that's a baseline.

But above that, we didn't walk around and you know, we didn't but maybe we couldn't support the homeless shelter with a $50,000 gift, but we could go serve soup.

>> Mhm. >> And maybe we couldn't maybe we couldn't give the widow down the street that had lost her husband um you know, a $10,000 gift to help her with anything. But we we could cut her grass and clean out her gutters and we did >> and make her dinner or watch the kids while she goes out or something. >> You can make dinner. Dinner doesn't cost much anything to make dinner for somebody or watch somebody's kids. Like Rachel said, there's all kinds of acts of service that you can do.

>> And honestly, it comes out of the exact same muscle, the exact same place in your heart that giving monetary gifts does. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Generous people are the ones that hold the door for you at the supermarket.

>> Yes. you know, >> and I do love your heart in it, Courtney. And I think the way I would be positioning it in my mind is that if I

make a sacrifice right now by cleaning this up, getting out of debt so that I'm in a good place financially, you're going to be able to give more obviously

than now. But even if you lived with debt for the rest of your life, you would always just have some change in your pocket to give the guy. Versus if you were debtree and you were on a plan and giving was one of those motivators or a priority for you where you're going to be giving more than maybe the average person that gives, you're you're going to have the means to be able to do that and even make a bigger impact for somebody, right? I mean, to go in to that single mom and pay her lights for a year.

You know, you'll be able to write a check and just do that. But you can't do that right now, right? And if you live how you're living now, you'll never be able to get to that place where you'll have a lot to be able to give. So there's something about being debtree that frees up your income.

Not just obviously for yourselves, but >> for for other people of what you're saying.

>> You guys always hear us say uh live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you have a

better quality of life and a higher level of generosity than anyone else >> because you paid a price to get there.

And the the biblical verse that caused us to come up with that saying is no discipline seems pleasant at the time.

And listen to this from a generosity perspective, but it yields a harvest of

righteousness. What's more righteous than generosity? I mean, what what's more holy than generosity? Not many

things, you know? And so, you're really touching the part of your heart that God installed. He installed the whole thing.

But the part of him that's most the part of your heart that's most like God when you're giving. He gave his only son.

We're celebrating. >> Jesus did, right? I mean, that's his example. He was serving constantly to

people. And so, yeah, there's there is that element that is >> Yeah. And so, you know, that's interesting. Jesus never gave money.

>> I don't think he made any. >> I know. >> I guess he did as a carpenter. >> I guess I guess he Yeah, he did. He He had a job. >> Yeah. He I think he pul I think he pulled or Peter somebody pulled a coin out of the fish's mouth, right?

>> But um give to Caesar what is Caesars's.

But I I don't there's I don't think there's I never thought about it. There's never there's >> it's definitely not a prevalent Bible >> story of Jesus giving money. But he did give acts of service. Yes. >> Healing on the Sabbath. I mean, you know, on and on, right? >> Washing the disciples feet. I mean, his life was service to be >> and that's the ultimate of generosity.

Very good. Courtney, you're going to be great. You're already great. Brett is with us in Boisey. Hi Brett. What's up?

>> Hi. Um my question today is um me and my

wife are about $160,000 in debt right now. >> Good lord. >> Um 135 Yeah. 135 of that is student loan

debt. >> Good lord. >> Um on her side and then 24,000 of that

is car debt. >> What's her degree in?

>> Her degree is a bachelor's of science and then she has a certificate in business. >> Bachelor of Science in what?

Um, that's I mean I'm looking at her diploma right now. That's all it says. It's just it's Bachelor of Science.

>> What did she study? >> Um, she has a she has an emphasis on uh on biology I suppose, but >> Oh, okay. Okay.

>> Um, so my question was um

>> Oh, she works at St. Luke's Hospital right now. >> What does she make? She >> She makes about like 17 an hour.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what do you make?

>> Um, I actually just got back from deployment. Um, I made about 70,000 this

last 10 months. >> Um, but I'm going back to school right now to get an AMP certificate.

>> So, y'all are broke.

>> Yeah. >> Thanks. Thanks for your service, but dude, you need some income in that house.

>> Yeah. Um, that's what we plan on doing.

I mean, this uh next two years when I go to school, um, I'm looking at AMP jobs.

I mean, I should be making around 30 to $40 an hour. >> Yeah. Why aren't you working while you're in school?

>> I am working while I'm in school. I'm I I literally just got back, so I'm still looking for >> The way you were saying it, I thought you were quitting or weren't doing anything. Okay. So, are you're you're off deployment, but you're not out of the service.

>> No. Um I'm I'm in the National Guard, so >> Oh, okay.

>> I got you. Okay.

Well, we want to go to we want to go back to school. She wants to get her master's degree. Um, which she will be paying her pocket. Um, because she can't she can't find a job right now. Um, she wants to get into dietetics and she just can't find anything. And she thinks that this master's degree is going to get her a job. >> Nah.

>> How old are you guys?

>> Um, I'm 25 and she's 23.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. A master's degree doesn't solve it. >> No. No. you you've got other issues going on. So, um I you know I think

there's a lot of possible tracks that she could take with a uh the biology degree that is a lot better than $17 an hour. Obviously, you could have made $17 an hour without a degree. Um breathing,

you can make $17 an hour. So, um

uh yeah. So, no. I mean, you guys really desperately need to get your income up and then tear through these loans as fast as possible. um you got a mess on your hands and you know going deeper into bought a car you can't afford for sure. >> Good lord. And you know and going more into debt to to go get a master's degree to be a dietitian. No thank you.

>> Nope. Nope. Nope. Look at what the incomes are.

Nope. I I I think you got to study your career tracks and decide where we're going to go and how we're going to pay for [music] it and then save up and get this get these debts cleaned up. Y'all got a mess on your hands, brother. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 266. You Don't Get Ahead By Coincidence | April 17, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense [music] is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Alongside the fabulously incomparable Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken [music] Coleman, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225

is the phone number to jump [music] in. 888-825-5225.

Partner, you ready to go?

Let's go. >> She's ready. Denise is joining us in Toronto. Denise, how can we help today?

Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

Um my question, I am needing help to

create financial stability when I am

starting over in life at the age of 51.

And I'm in a difficult situation going

through a divorce.

And I feel like I don't have time to waste with taking steps forward financially, and so I need a plan.

Um I'm guessing you need more information than that. Yeah, so let's start with are you employed? I am employed, yes. >> How much do you make? >> So, I make 45,000 a year, which after

taxes where I live, um comes out to be about 2,500 a month.

Okay, can you live on 2,500 a month?

I I am Yes, I'm I'm making it work.

Okay. Um >> So, that's a good starting point. And the reason I'm I'm stopping this momentum here, Jade Jade's going to jump in and walk you through some really specific stuff, but let's just pause for a moment and let's take a deep breath and realize what you just told us.

Uh-huh. It's not ideal.

Right. It kind of sucks. Mhm. But we can live.

And I think that's really important to hold on to, Jade. As she's about ready to, you know, to go into a new life. So,

so you're going to be okay and make it.

Now, let's let's bring Jade in. Let's talk about how we thrive. Okay? So, give us more of your financial picture. What do we know need to know that we don't know?

Um I am renting. I pay $1,500 a month in

rent. Oof. Um My. for a 400 square foot apartment.

And just to backtrack a little bit, coming out of the divorce, it's possibly going into court soon.

Um for zero transparency and dishonest

disclosure of his income. So, there's a lot of difficulty there, and I'm not sure I'll recover or get anything.

Sure. How are you paying for a lawyers?

How are you paying for that?

Right now, I have $4,000 in legal fees.

And my lawyer is either going to be paid after a settlement or for what is owed to me is possibly recovered, but I there's no guarantee on that. What is owed to you?

Uh um there was a 10-year separation where he was being dishonest about his income. And so, there's $237,000

>> that should have been paid to me.

But he's been very strategic and Okay.

And so, there I mean, there's a lot of backstory there, but as soon as I went to a lawyer to get help, he walked away from his job, lowered his income, So, there's there's $237,000 at stake. I don't want us to focus too much on that, cuz the truth is you don't know if you're going to get it or not. I do want to be have some thoughts about this these legal fees coming up because you might be on the hook for that. Is there other any other debt to speak of?

Uh right now I have about $2,000 in credit card debt, of which should be paid off by I should pay it off by the end of this year, no problem. How Okay, I want to camp out on that because I'm seeing somebody who has $1,000 to spend on groceries, gas, and everything else in life. How are you paying off the 2K no problem? Um I've I've just putting aside money every

month. Okay. >> And I feel like at the end like I'm living very small. Well, yeah. How much margin do you have?

Um so after everything is said and done,

my cost of living can be around 2,300 a month. >> Okay, so you got $200 in extra margin, but you called because there's a sense of urgency around really your future. My

my future. And my question, you know, I look at and I watch the shows. I'm you know, I have a thousand in savings now.

I'm kind of looking at the steps forward, but should I be investing? You know, is retirement possible for me? Yeah, let's let's talk about that. So, I want to kind of dial back and put this in order of of importance. So, the first thing is I love the fact that you've got $200 of margin to Ken's point earlier. That should help you sleep at night knowing, "Hey, I'm not in the red." However, we both know it can't continue like this.

And honestly, the way's forward, there's nothing else to cut out of the budget.

There's nothing else on that end. This is an income issue. Therefore, this is a

career issue. And so, my question for you is the type of work that you're doing now, is that the type of work you see yourself doing in the next 2 to 3 years?

Yes. Um so I'm currently a church office administrator.

And I've always been in ministry my whole life. Um but I'm looking at that and I'm looking at being self sustainable financially. And so, I'm even thinking Look, right now it's keeping me afloat.

But is there a way for that Is there a trajectory for that income to increase over time? >> No. And that's >> now. Yeah. That's where I'm at because if I'm if I'm just being conservative with you, if I if I say, "Okay, best-case scenario, she takes that $200 and she starts investing it immediately from age 51 to age 71, that's $151,000.

Like, that's not going to sustain you.

And so, we have to have a very real conversation in reality about what it

actually takes monetarily for you to be able to retire. And the answer to that is income. Yeah. How would you describe Denise? I want you to take the ministry language out of it. You'll understand why I'm asking this in a moment. Sure. I want you to describe what you do.

Right now, I work in administration. And so, I'm running an entire church right now because we're without a pastor. So, I I do music, I do um graphic design.

Mhm. Um the social media part of it.

>> Mhm. Um everything that Do you do operations?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's Here's why I asked you the question. I think this is an important exercise for you to describe what you do. Now, your situation is it's kind of a uh

you're doing everything right now, so we need to extrapolate, kind of pull back from that a little bit and go, "Okay, if there was a pastor there and the adequate staff, what would you be doing?" And here's why I think this is important. >> Mhm. I know you love ministry, I know you've been in ministry, but right now ministry is not the best financial option for you. And if you could go get a job as an office manager or maybe a

project manager uh where we're making 55, 60 I mean, I'm

just again, I don't know the Canadian uh workplace, I don't know the marketplace, but I I know that I'm I'm saying things that are adjacent. You have the skill set and the experience to do those things, true or false? True.

Okay. Right now, the number one thing you need to do is you need to replace your job. Mhm. And this is not I love my church,

there's no pastor, if I leave the church is in trouble. That's not your problem.

Right. There are two ships in this conversation that are taking on a lot of water. >> [laughter] >> Mhm. The church and you.

And I'm not worried about the church. The church will be fine. I am worried about you. So, I think Jade's absolutely right. We need to juice that income by 15, 20, 25,000 dollars.

>> Yes. And now that gives me breathing room. I can pay off the the uh the lawyer debt. Mhm. >> I can self-sustain and begin to move on and then I can invest.

And work in the baby steps. So, hang on the line. We're going to give you a total money makeover. Mhm.

>> Uh that's your plan. That is your plan going forward. We're very sorry, by the way, that you're going through this and understand you're in a season of grief right now. And so, getting through the grief is number one. And what will help you is more money.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Next, we go to Minneapolis, where Jennifer awaits. Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi. Um I am coming into a bunch of money

uh through a settlement. And um I just

I don't have any financial background. I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'm going to go through the baby steps very quickly once I get

that money, but then I have no clue what I'm doing here. Mhm.

Wow. So, I can tell this money right now feels a little bit like a stressor, and I can understand that. How much money is it?

So, the floor is a quarter million dollars, and the ceiling is 5 million dollars. Whoa. >> Wow. Okay.

>> stretch. Can you give us some variables as to what you know which would determine where it lands in that massive range?

Um basically, it's whatever. Like

there's a a history of settlements with this particular company. Um the highest one settled for

180 million but it's not like that's not a hundred

percent my situation. When will you know?

Um my attorneys told me it'll settle this year. Okay.

Okay. Um but you know for a fact you're getting 250 at least. Minimum. Yes. And

you know that for a fact.

For a fact, yeah. >> Okay. Um how much So it's So tell us your financial situation. Give us a picture because you've said hey I'm not financially literate. What does that equated to? How much debt? Tell us what's going on.

Okay. So um my The most I've ever made in a single year is $42,000.

Um and like so we just did our taxes last year and we did $31,000.

>> Between the two of you?

Yeah. >> You and your husband? Yeah. What kind of work is that?

Um well, initially he was he was working

at a foundry and then um we he moved across the country for a better job, which was also a foundry, but just more money. But what about you?

I don't work. And you've never worked?

I've worked like I think in my life I've

worked a total of maybe three years. Why is that?

Um it's it's hard to tell like one one thing because it doesn't make sense on its own. Like everything's kind of a snowball effect. So Um >> So there's not a strong working history.

Has and the income that is brought in is is low compared to, you know, median standards out there in the US. Tell us

Tell us about the debt. Tell us about what your lifestyle has looked like.

Okay. So our debt combined is around

$55,000 total. That's um the car payment, that's uh

credit cards, um other financial obligations that we have. Like what?

Another one of those snowball things. I owe federal restitution for $39,000.

Taxes? >> Okay.

What's the plan? That's okay.

[clears throat] Everything stops. The there's a screeching tire sound here.

What is the plan?

>> On the 39,000. I'm assuming you're in some type of agreement or payment plan, yes? Yes. Yes. Um I I have to submit

like our financial situation once a year

to the DOJ and they review it and then tell me what I have to pay monthly.

Um they put a hold on my payments for a year because we were not doing well.

Okay. Okay, so you got to fight you got to At least we have something working there. >> Okay. Um going back to your initial fears, um yeah, the best thing for you

is going to be to learn as much information as you can and you called the right place to get that. Um Yeah. My my fear for you going forward if you don't choose to change and learn more about is debt, okay? Because what can It

doesn't matter how much money you make, you can't out-earn financial illiteracy and you can't out-earn stupid choices with money, right? And you can't, you know, settlement out of it, none of that will work, you'll blow through it. So, Right. >> the biggest thing that I want to get you connected with is before we get off the phone, I'm going to send you some resources and I want you to just full

force go into them. I'm going to send you the Total Money Makeover. We're going to get you hooked up with every dollar and inside of every dollar, um there's a lot of teaching materials, but I want you to go old school and I'm also going to give you Financial Peace University because that's really that's like the intensive version and I want you to do that. >> Yeah. Um watched Financial Peace University when I was 20.

So, I'm that's why I was familiar with the baby steps and everything.

>> good. Then I want you to go back and refresh it because even the best of the best of us need to go back and get a refresher on that. So, what's going to happen when this money comes in?

Absolutely, you're going to take it and you're going to pay off the restitution, you're going to pay off the credit cards, you're going to pay off the car.

But, the precursor to the baby steps working is twofold. And these are the things that you've got to lock in. And if you don't lock them in, nothing I tell you is going to work, okay? So, here we go. Number one, you have got to decide today, I don't borrow money.

You have to stop borrowing money for any reason. I I just don't borrow money.

Because what'll happen is there'll be something that you want and you'll go, "Well, I can put a lot down." And you'll just kind of creep over that line. So, you've got to decide, I don't borrow money anymore. That is going to keep your income yours, and it's going to keep the risk off your back, and it's going to keep you from sliding back into those behaviors that you're afraid you're going to slide back into. So, you've just got to put a hard boundary there.

Boundaries are good, okay? That's thing one.

Okay, so just for some context, like we

budget everything. We budget everything.

We don't buy extravagantly.

Like, the debt that we have on our credit cards is for necessities that we

could not cover. Okay.

>> Can I jump in? Can I jump in? Jennifer, I know you're hurting.

And Jade's right what she said, but can I tell you something? The reason you guys are hurting is cuz you don't have enough income.

Yeah. >> And I absolutely believe that you believe that everything you put on that credit card was a necessity.

Yeah. >> But, I have a hard time agreeing with your classification of it.

What is a necessity is is you and your

husband both in the United States of America in the Minneapolis area should be making combined minimum 60,000.

Yeah. You know it and I know it. I don't

say that in any way with a hint of judgment, so please don't feel judgment.

But you called us to help you and I'm telling you Jade's 100% right. But when she told you the truth, your response was, "Well, we do budget. We just had all these things happening and we had to go to a credit card." No, what you need to do is be making more income. So that when things happen, we can cover it.

Okay? >> Right. So the baby steps get us to that place and baby step three. So I'm going to tell you I'm going to give it back to Jade, but I wanted to jump in and say I wouldn't wait until the settlement comes in. >> Thank you. I was just about to get to that. >> you need to go get a job today. And I don't care if it's the late shift at the local gas station.

I don't care if it's stocking shelves at Walmart. I don't care if it has anything remotely close to dignity attached to it in your mind because good, hard work is dignified. I think you guys got to change your life and take some ownership of the situation and go, "We're no longer going to get in a situation like that because we do know how to budget." But your problem is not budgeting, your problem is you don't have anything to budget. Yeah, and I want to take that a step forward and tell you the I'll tell you my why behind it.

I'm sure Ken has one.

Yeah, I know that. >> know what I'm saying? Right. I don't want you to think that the only way you get ahead is something hap you know, happenstance takes place and thank goodness, right?

I want you to have the confidence to know that you can get out there to quote Dave Ramsey, you can kill something and drag it home. You can go out there and make it happen. And the way things are, life is kind of happening to you. Oh, he went here to do this boundary and he went here to do this boundary.

And then the accident happened and then the this and that. No, no, no, no, no.

Okay. [music] You know what I'm saying?

But here's the deal. On the settlement, we're going to tell you to walk the baby steps out. Are you familiar with the baby steps? I am. [music] Okay. So, it doesn't matter if it's 250 or 5 million.

The baby steps.

That's what you do.

But you have got to take some ownership

now. We're not just going to sit around and wait for the settlement. Cuz let me tell you about settlements. They have a sneaky way of taking way longer to get paid out than maybe that you were told.

And sometimes, Jade, shockingly, they don't end up being the amount that we were told. >> lawyers, those fees, those taxes.

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Hey, if you're buying or selling a home, you know it's a huge deal.

And you also know that you're constantly being confronted with clickbait headlines and all kinds of data on social media and you're going, "What's really true? What should I do? What is the market [music] really like?" And so we always want to be on top of the latest trends to help you understand. And if we look at median home prices, they stayed steady last month.

Just under 440,000.

The number of home sales, excuse me, homes for sale hit a million for the third month in a row. And listen, there's a glut glut of homes out right now. And so buyers have more options and more negotiating power. You flip that, it means sellers well, they're facing a much stiffer market and they may have to come off the price. To learn more about the housing market trends and if you want to get some free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, you can always go to ramsysolutions.com/market.

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The link is in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Josh is up next in Phoenix. Josh, how can we help?

Hey guys, can you hear me okay?

>> Yes, loud and clear. Hey, thanks so much.

You guys helped my wife and I get out of a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. We called last year, we were in baby step two and now we're on five and six. So here I am.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah, Jade you told me to just pay off my car and I I didn't want to do it at first, but I just did the next day and and here we are. So >> go. Good things happen when you listen to Jade. >> Just get in time. >> [laughter] >> Everybody in the listening to show need to listen to Jade. Okay? All right, go ahead Josh.

Jade will do it. I'm telling you.

We we have two young boys and I'd like to set up a financial future for them. I set aside right now $250 a month for each of them. It could be more, but right now it's going into a UTMA account. But I realized that one day they're going to wake up at 18 at that rate with $60,000 and I just hand them the keys. And so I

will do my best to make them as financially literate as possible. Do I put it in a 529? They might not go to school. Do I put it in a mutual fund in my name and then we can have a conversation, but it's I want it to be used for school, but I can't tell them how to spend it in the UTMA. So if there's something that you recommend at that rate that I probably will put more than 250 a month for each of them.

And I just don't want to I don't want to give 18-year-old, you know, still 18. So

Well, just calling to see what you guys recommend. I I agree with you.

I shy back from the idea of giving a large sum of money to an 18-year-old,

especially when at that point, yeah, they're on their own. The money's now in their name and you can't really govern it the way you'd like to. I I would I would be partial to throwing it in a 529 account instead, especially at the rate that you're investing. I don't think that you're going to overfund um certainly not overfund college, but I don't even think you're going to overfund higher ed in general with that type of money.

If they want some form of certificate, if they want to do some you know, something in the trades, I think that that's a good sum of money. And you've got to remember that it is transferable.

It can go on if that you know, child

wanted to then keep that money for for their kids, but just know that over time that money can be pulled out and it can transfer to an IRA at a certain point in

time. So, it's not like forever lost.

It's just allowing that transition to take place, but I don't think you're going to over fund it.

Okay, and you don't what happens I mean if in the scenario where both of them actually don't go to school and use it?

You can put it in an IRA. Can you pull it out? Does it get um penalized or anything if you then then did pull that sum of money out? >> So, at any point you can pull the money out.

If you pull it out for non-education purposes, you are going to be penalized. It's a 10% penalty. So, just know that, but it does roll over over time. I can check that for you.

Can keep him busy. I'm going to check when it uh >> [laughter] >> rolls over. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Um, and and your kids are how old?

They're four and six. We've got plenty of time. >> you do, but here's the other thing I was going to tell you just to be thinking about as you're trying to figure out what's the right amount.

Education is changing so rapidly right now in the United States. I can't even imagine what higher education looks like

in 12 to 14 years. I'm not kidding you.

Uh, so I think it's going to be radically different. I don't see the traditional higher ed format. That's just me. This is not a hot take for me, but it's a hot take for some people, but I'm telling you I'm paying attention to these trends.

So, you know, looking at the current cost of tuition and trying to figure out my point is just pick a solid number that's going to get them where they need to be based on maybe where things are today. Don't overthink about what it's going to how much it's going to cost cuz I think if anything, the cost is going to go down. I think it's going to be decentralized. Uh so I I at some point we're going to hit a breaking point and I think we're really darn close.

So, that's the part I wanted to give you that I hope is some good context in choosing the amount to invest. Jade, you got what you were looking for? >> Yeah, there's a lot of different uh parts to this. So, number one, uh the 529, it needs to have been in existence uh for the current beneficiary for at least 15 years.

So, in the case of your children, that would be the case, right? They've had this money, uh they've decided not to go to college, they've held onto it for a while, and then that's going to have to be rolled over um to a five from a 529 uh in a minimum of 5 years. So, there's some nuance there. I think you can dig deeper in that to decide, but I honestly, like I said, I think if you split this out and I think that if you, like I said, do part of it 529, part of it in a mutual fund, it gives you more control.

>> That's my point. It may be trade school.

Yeah. You know, uh it you know, if that kid wants to get into technology, I think that's going to look wildly different. You know, so don't stress over this. Be wise um and

and know that you've got a lot of options. Anything remotely related to some type of training or education is going to be able to be used. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, talk to you talk to a Smart Investor Pro about this and uh make the best plan.

Don't I but I would I I guess what I'm getting at is I wouldn't over save. No, I wouldn't over save. And like I said, you can check out the Secure 2.0 Act. Uh that's the one that talks about you can move those monies uh to a Roth IRA.

limit. So, just kind of think through that. Like, what would that look like to move this amount over this amount of time? Um yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks, Josh.

You're a good dad. You're doing great.

Uh you know, broader issue here. Uh I touched on this a minute ago, I'm going to revisit this for our audience. As you start to look at the baby steps, okay? And so, for people that are going, "Okay, I'm I'm late 30s, maybe I'm early 40s, and

we're just getting into the baby steps." Baby step one, $1,000 for that rainy day

kind of garden-variety emergency. Boom, that's important. Baby step two, smallest debt all the way up to the largest debt. Momentum, we're going to knock it out. Game changer, super important, right? Baby step three, three to six months of your expenses in the bank. Now, we're feeling really good at night when we go to bed. Uh baby step four, now we're planning for the future.

15% towards retirement. And then, some of you're going, "I'm so far behind with my kids." Baby step five feels like a really rough emotional confrontation.

>> Yes. All right, I'm just calling it out. Abs- absolutely. Here's what I want to say.

Don't fall into the trap that your kid has to go to a super expensive school,

to a name-brand school, or that they have to have a student loan for any amount of professional success, because that is the cultural pressure.

And if you take the cultural messaging and pressure, and you put it on top of somebody who's going, "We're so far behind. We're just trying to get through baby step three, and my kid's going to go to college in two years." I know what that can feel like. You talk a lot about the emotions behind money, and I wanted to call it out. I want to give you the last word on that. I want people to think about there are more ways for your kids to get the training that they need

more than ways than ever, and more cheap. That's all I want to say. I want to throw it out there. >> I'm going to tell you right now, setting expectations early and often, my parents told me from a young age, "You don't have a college fund.

You better be good at sports. You better be good at grades." When you set expectations like that early and often, that is more important than a college fund because then you go, "Okay, I got to get scholarships. I got to have a good a better GPA.

I got to choose a school that is within the right price range [music] to actually make this work cuz we're not doing student loans." Expectations trumps a college fund any day of [music] the week.

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, Caitlin is up next in Shreveport, Louisiana. Caitlin, how can we help?

I am looking for the best way to consolidate my debt and to raise my credit score so in the future I can buy a new vehicle and a new house.

Okay. Now, how familiar with our show are you? Are you new to us?

Um only in the last year and looking at

baby steps. I've completed a couple, but

out of order. Okay, tell us give us the update.

So, I already have over a thousand dollars in savings. I'm actually edging towards 10,000. That's just because my dad raised me to always save money and make sure you always have at least six months worth of your bills to be covered. Okay.

And then I also have a 15% that I put back

monthly into retirement. Okay. Is that through a 401k?

Um 401k and an IRA. Okay.

Anything else?

That's pretty much it. And And what about the debt? Cuz you mentioned consolidating your debt.

Um yes. So, whenever I turned 18 and I

went to college, I found out that my birth mom had used my information on a house loan, a vehicle loan, and two credit cards. >> Oh, lordy. So, I have the two credit cards that are on my collections, which is really the main thing that has affected my credit the most.

>> Not the mortgage?

No, because thankfully I found out after

having the conversation with my dad that my dad ended up paying for the house and somehow my name was just attached to it for the first three-ish years of my life. Like I still get unclaimed property tax from the state of Louisiana for that house. But it's nowhere on your report anymore?

No, not at all. And the car?

Not at all. Okay, so it's just these credit cards.

How much is How much is it?

It's right at 1,500 and then my total

debt is only 3,000 because the other 1,500 is medical debt, but I've paid off

the other 80% of my medical debt just because of my health issues. How much was it to begin with? >> well as far as paying off my debt. So it was It was $8,000 to begin with?

The medical debt? >> to like 10 to 12. Here's what I don't

understand. How is it that you're being held liable if it's been proven that your birth mother used your name to fraudulently take out credit card debt?

That's what I don't understand either.

Have you talked to the credit Well, first of all, have you proven this? Is there some type of legal judgment and ruling that that it's been acknowledged by somebody in authority that your birth mother did this?

No, I just got her to admit to it.

Did you get it in Did you get it recorded?

No. Mhm. Okay.

>> don't have much to do with her anymore

>> Sure. Oh, well, gee whiz. I mean, my gosh, I I totally understand. All I'm trying to do is to see if there's a way out for you not to have to pay a nickel of the $1,500 given that you didn't even

And that's how I actually got the house and stuff like that off of my credit which it still affected my credit from

there, but I'm edging up to like 580 compared to the 330 that I started off with.

>> Okay, so let's let's take a time out and talk about that for a minute because I know that you're familiar with Ramsey, um but I think there's a a key point of this that you're missing and I want to talk about that. So, over here we don't really care about credit scores.

And the reason that we don't care about credit scores is because credit scores are just a measurement of how you handle and deal with debt. And since we are anti-debt, there's no use for a credit score. Cuz if you think about it, Caitlin, credit scores, they measure how much debt you have, how frequently you use your debt, what percentage of your debt you use, how long your debt's been around, uh what is the mix of debts that you have, right? It's just a It's just a a measurement of debt.

And so over here, the whole point is, "Hey, let's get rid of debt because the borrower is slave to the lender.

then what's going to happen and if you decide, "Hey, I'm just not going to borrow money," your credit score is going to disappear. It takes about 6 to 12 months for a credit score to completely disappear. If you look it up, it'll either be zero or it'll be indeterminable. That's what takes place.

And when that happens, it's not a bad thing. It's actually a very positive thing. But most people will come back and say, "Well, wait a second. What does that mean, Ken, if I want to get an apartment?

It means the same thing. So if you go out to buy a house, the only thing that's different is the method in which they approve you for the mortgage.

Instead of doing um normal underwriting, they would do what's called manual underwriting.

That's the only difference.

And so that's the number one thing that I want you to take away from this conversation is you don't have to spend your time, effort, and energy chasing a

credit score because all that's going to do is land you in more debt. And I can tell you've got a good head on your shoulders. Your dad taught you how to be a saver. I can tell you're not a person who goes out and takes out a lot of debt. Your mom screwed you over royally.

That's messed up. But, I think you have a good head on your shoulders, and I think you understand this.

And that's Yeah, I I agree. This is the only thing from where I'm from, obviously, is like everybody's always preached like you can't do anything without a credit score. >> They're wrong. You can't do anything without a credit score. Yeah, but what if what if like you were hanging out in a crowd that said it's like everybody around you said it's totally okay to eat Tide Pods, would you do it?

>> [laughter] >> No. You see my point?

>> Absolutely not. I know this is an extreme example, but you can't say, "Well, everybody around me." Now, here's the deal. We understand that, and that's why Jade just walked you through very meticulously why we don't think a credit score matters. So, now you have to go, "Okay." And I understand your action.

You're kind of like, "Okay, that's all well and good, but everyone in my life is going to go, 'You need to do that.'" So, let's talk about the next step, Jade, which is how she saves up for a car. >> I do want to do that, but I want to take that a step further because I want you to go home and chew on this. The reason that you're like, "Well, all my friends are eating the Tide Pods." The reason is because [laughter] that's what's being advertised because there's money on the other side of that. Think about that.

It makes sense. Companies want you to take out debt.

There's no money on the other on the other side of a zero credit score. There is no financial institution that benefits from you having a zero credit score. Think about that. Therefore, there's not going to be any commercials about it, boo. It's not going to be out there.

But, it doesn't mean it's not real. Ken and I have nothing to gain from this.

So, we're sitting here telling you I Let me tell you, until I bought my house, I went years without a credit score. And then when it was time to buy the house, we did manual underwriting. Now, I have a mortgage, so I have a credit score.

But, think through that. And anybody listening, I want you to think about that. Get Banks are attached to the end of this. Banks want you to borrow money.

Banks want to be able to Do you see what I'm saying? So, think through that because wherever there's a paper trail, that's where you figure out the origins of something. Caitlin, would you like to pay cash for a car? If you had the money saved up, how would that feel?

Amazing. And that's actually the way that I was always raised because my dad never even had a credit score up until I was over the age of 20, and I'm now 27.

>> Right. So, this is possible. So, now the question becomes not how do I get my credit score in a place where I can buy a car? Well, if you're not going to finance the car, the credit score doesn't matter. Last car The car I'm driving right now, I bought it from a local dealer. Cash only.

>> And I walked in literally with cash.

And guess what they never asked me for.

>> my dad did with my car. They never said to me, "Well, Mr. Coleman, what is your credit score?" Because the minute I said I'm paying cash and I have it in a little briefcase here and I got an envelope and I'm literally what I'm offering you with this car is this amount of money. Uh the guy, first of all, was stunned.

And it took him a second to make sure he heard [laughter] me correctly. And then he went, "All right, sir." >> Yes. There was no credit score conversation. It's fast.

So, Caitlin, I'm just We're trying to reset your um True north. Yeah, you know what I'm thinking? It's like we're pulling you out of the matrix.

You know? Yes. The matrix says I got to plug in to debt to be able to live.

We're saying you don't. And so, what do you want? A $12,000 car? $14,000 car?

Would an $8,000 car do what it needs to do for you right now? Boom, we set a target, we save up the money, and we go do it. Same thing with a house. What's the right down payment? And by the way, when you do that, you're setting yourself up to be wealthy for life.

Think about it. What would it mean if you invested [music] that car payment.

>> [music]

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit [music] Union Studio.

I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is alongside.

We're really happy to have you with us here. We're here to help you, help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships.

The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225.

We start out with Joel, who joins us in Wichita, Kansas. Joel, how can we help?

Hi. How are you guys today?

>> We're doing well. How are you?

Um I've been better. Oh. What's going on today? Okay, so I am in baby step three. I

thought I was finished, but I think I'm going to be restarting.

Um my house flooded. Well, so I have a crawl space

and my main water line burst under my

house. Oh. And it's cost

um so far I'm at over $40,000 worth of damage. >> Oh, man.

Yeah, and I have 12,000 in my emergency fund, but not enough to cover all of

these damages. And this is >> Um I don't I don't have insurance.

Well, I do, but they're trying they're arguing on whether or not they're going to pay cuz my house is old, so the pipes are old.

So, um I'm just trying to figure out if

insurance doesn't cover, what is your guys' advice on where to go next for all

of these bills? Has the work already been done?

Um some of it, yeah, had to be done immediately.

Um the plumbing had to be done. The restoration company had to come and start getting the water out, the humidity out, dry it out to try to get it, you know, to prevent it from getting ruining the subfloor and the beams and all of that good stuff.

What is the specific communication been with your homeowner's insurance um on this? I mean, I'm sure someone's giving you the runaround on the phone, but have they have they been able to cite to you um some type of specific line in the homeowner's policy that

says they don't have to pay? I'm wondering if they're just trying to bully you and manipulate you versus have

they proven to you that they don't have to pay.

Well, so the most recent communication has been that they want to talk they don't want to talk with me anymore. They want to talk to the plumber.

And so I let him know and he was going to do his best, but the pipes are old so

and I I I haven't I mean my house is almost 100 years old so >> Yeah, they're going to want to know if this was some a problem that has been escalating over time that has never been dealt with or if it really was a sudden kind of like catastrophic event. Whether or whether this was a slow leak over time.

Yeah, and according I went to like my local where the my I pay my water bill our local city place and it definitely was a catastrophic event. So I am going to fight it. >> Yeah. But while I'm fighting it if I

have like when these bills come up cuz I already had the HVAC issues >> Uh-huh.

they're the bill the the estimate for

the issues is 30,000.

Because the return air vent is under my house and it was full of water, the HVAC

system outside was full of water and stuff is now short-circuiting and So >> everything is still wet in there. I don't It's just been a mess. Read it back to me. >> another guy. So the actual water damage from in the interior like once they dry it out obviously there's cosmetic things that you're going to want to fix like flooring and walls and all that stuff drywall. But then there's the actual technical damage to the HVAC. That's 30,000. How much is the to fix the inside of the house minus the HVAC?

Nothing. There's no damage in the house.

Oh. Um it's all under it's all under and

the >> your living space?

No, because I caught it fast enough.

>> Good for you. Okay. I you know I I don't know what Jay's going to say about this, but I come at this so I'm going to go what I think is probably extreme and then I I want your take.

Um Joelle, if I'm in your shoes, um I've I'm getting an affidavit, you know, a a statement from the local water company where they say this was a catastrophic event. Uh I'm getting that like instantly. Um I

am calling the plumber and all these other people saying, "I need you guys

to go on the record here uh as to how you see this thing going down and what was going on." And I I appreciate the fact that the insurance company wants to talk to your plumber, and I think that's great, but you never lose sight of it. In fact, when the plumber calls, the plumber has you on the line.

Yeah. Okay. Because I want that insurance company to know that Joelle is not going into the night quietly.

Because Joelle's been paying her premiums on time.

Mhm. Because you said she had to to be insured. And now when she has an actual catastrophic event, you jerks are trying

to manipulate her. So, they need to know

that Joelle's not going quietly.

And they need to know that you're you that you would be happy to go to counsel and get counsel.

And you need to say enough things and ask for enough things where they realize Joelle is taking care of business.

What provision, show me the line in my policy that you are citing when you're questioning whether or not you guys are supposed to pay for this after I pay my deductible? And I I just would be hyper vigilant.

Because once they realize that Joelle is willing to go all the way on principle

because she's not going to be messed with, I think it changes things. But I I'm going to stop there cuz I do value Jade's wisdom on this. That's what I would do. I Yes, I'm with Ken. I would 100% fight this, but I'm here to help you deal with worst case scenarios. So, I want to talk about what is your income right now and what's what's your monthly margin look like?

Um so, like my yearly income is that what you want to Uh tell me what you make a month.

Uh probably 5,000. Okay. And of that

5,000, you told me you have 12,000 saved. How much margin do you have every single month?

Um I would say two. Okay. So, what my

goal would be, let's pretend you're on the hook for some if not all of this money. And so, you're looking on man, I got to shell out $30,000. You've got 12, so we got to come up with another 17 or 18,000 very quickly. So, my first thing that I would do is I'd be finding I'd be looking for ways that I can cut back to where I can start to save up as much money as possible.

I'm looking around, is there anything I can offload to pick up a you know, however much money is possible. Maybe it's $2,000, maybe it's $800, right? So, that's kind of just a practical way of looking. But what I'm also going to do is I'm going to get an HVAC guy out there and I'm going to tell him the situation.

And I'm going to say, "Tell me, put yourself in my shoes. I don't have $30,000. How can we phase this thing so that we're doing this in small chunks so I can pay you?

Is there a way that we can do when we're setting up the return air, can we do priority zones first? Like, you know, the master bedroom, that one's first and then maybe the kitchen. And is there a way that we can phase this thing out so I can pay and so that we can do things that are most important first, you know?

Um and that's what I'd be asking cuz everything is happens in phases. That's right. That's right. And listen, these these contractors that you're working with, they know your situation.

And they've they've seen it a million times, I'm sure. >> adding to Jade's worst-case scenario, worst-case scenario, you look at them and you go, "Look, I I don't do debt.

Yeah. >> So, I'm not going to put this on a credit card, but if you can work out a a cash payment plan, I will do installments." And you treat this like you've had to go back into the baby steps. And that's what [music] you do. Yep.

But but you're not actually borrowing, you're just going to go, "Guys, I'm going to pay this, but I'm going to pay you as I can and I'm going to take that 2,000 in margin or where I can take and I'm going to just I'm going to pay you guys off." And that way you sleep at night. [music] And that's what I want you to hear is that you don't need to go into debt to pay this stuff off. >> [music] >> You just don't. >> Okay.

All right? That was I That was what I was worried about. No, you're okay. >> and that's your choice.

But fight. Fight fight fight deductible only is our goal here.

[music]

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>> [music] >> All right, let's go to Beth in Rochester, New York. Beth, how can we help today?

Good morning or good afternoon. We have been following the Dave Ramsey plan my husband and I for [music] about a year now. We have baby steps number one and partial of number three laid out.

We were about $40,000 in debt not including our remainder of our $200,000 mortgage and so we're probably sitting at around $21,000 in a credit card debt

that's mostly been occurred for myself covering weddings, baby showers and and other things like that. Um I have about $400,000 sitting in my 401k and I wanted

some advice on whether it makes sense to pull out a loan out of there to pay back myself versus paying these high interest I think the credit card has like a 28%

interest fee on it just to get just to get that out of the way to plug away at the remaining bill, you know, getting out of debt.

Well, didn't I hear you say that you had partial of baby step three completed and I'll put that in quotes? >> Yeah. So, how much money is there?

So, we're down to one vehicle now and we have about $6,000 in there.

The tricky part of this conversation is my husband doesn't agree with credit cards at all and we have two children where I've kind of supported again helping support weddings and baby showers with it across the past two years and I've successfully paid off 20,000 of it alone and I probably could be out of debt with the other 20,000 by October of this year.

We roughly make about 230 a year combined.

But he's not willing to contribute to the debt because he didn't create that portion.

Why doesn't he like credit cards? Why doesn't Why is he against them?

For the situation we're in now of, you know, uh it's it's it's an easy it's an easy fix to pay for something that you don't think you that to pay something up front and then worry not worry about how to pay for it later. Sure.

Okay. Um I want to There's there's many ways that this can be attacked and there's many things that I'm hearing going on. I think that I'm going to start

with the 401k and I'm going to work my way backwards. So, I would not borrow this money from the 401k.

Uh the reason for that is you're just putting yourself at risk. Obviously, if you borrow this money from your 401k, now it's attached to your work. So, if you choose to leave leave your job at any point, that money is going to become due immediately and you'll have a a calendar year in most cases to pay that money back. And if for some reason you're not able to pay that money back, then it becomes viewed as an early distribution and so you're taxed on it at your income tax level, but then you're also paying a 10% penalty.

And it's just not worth it to unplug >> [laughter] >> your retirement for this purpose. So, that that is the reason why that's off the table. So, let's check that off the list. Ken, >> Okay.

Mhm. I want you to lean in on this because what I'm hearing, Beth, is if my if my spouse says something that they disagree with and they they they're saying, "Hey, I really don't want to do this. I really don't feel good about this." My first initial point is not, "Okay, then I'll just go over here and do it on the side anyway." >> Correct. Yeah, I I I felt the same thing.

Beth, this is not a win. This is not a win financially, right? It's not a good move. Yeah.

Uh for all the reasons Jade's laid out, but it's really a bad move relationally.

And the truth of the matter is we agree with him. Right? And so >> Yes. But what we want here is not about boo Beth, yay hubs, right? That's not what this is. It's this is a relationship issue that you need to solve now. It hasn't been solved up to this point and now you're tempted because you don't have the same principle that he has. He's not tempted.

In fact, my guess is is your husband's got an an alternate plan. Is that true or false?

Yes. What's his plan?

Uh well, ultimately here uh that uh we're going to scale back even further than where we are um and that I

you know, whether I find an additional job or whatever whatever I do uh and I turn all all credit cards over to him, which I have. Mhm. Um I have until the end of the year cuz we make a decent salary You make it out of this fine.

Wait, you No, not decent. You make $230,000.

The median is like 80. So, you're you're doing extremely well. >> Yeah. Yeah, so I I Jade's right. This you need to trust your husband on this. He's actually got your best interest, your you collectively you.

The two of you. He's got your best interest at mind. He's right.

Don't fall prey to this kind of thinking. This is a mindset and you just got to go, all right. You know what? I'm not where I need to be.

I'm going to trust Jade and Ken. I called him today and I'm really going to trust my husband. >> Yes. And uh you need to get on the same page with him on these money principles and it's going to be a much better journey Yeah.

>> going forward and you're not going to get into messes. So, as simple as I can say it, just run his plan out. You guys can solve this. You got the income to be able to solve this.

You don't need to take out a 401k loan. You don't need credit cards. You just don't. And and I think that's >> exactly what he said.

He's right. I hate to keep telling you that he's right, but he's right. >> Well, and and let's put this into real numbers because if you tell me, oh my gosh, we have, you know, $15,000 a month, $14,000 a month at our disposal, now my next question comes, okay, what's happening to that money?

Because that is most people I I can guarantee you this and I'll try to shut it down, but the folks in the comments right now are like, "What's going on? If I made that much money and yep, yep, yep." Now, I'm not saying listen to the haters cuz that's all they're doing is sipping haterade. But, what I am saying is that is a reasonable amount of money to work with. That Don't get me wrong, nobody should be using credit cards, but especially you shouldn't be using credit cards because you've got this wonderful income.

>> [laughter] >> does. Actually, I have it. You have it, which is the oddest part. Yeah.

So, you might just want to look through it, Beth, and there's probably some things that can be tightened up. There might be some some uh slush fund that

needs to be uh given a a clearer definition of what really are we using this money for? Because, you know, $21,000 of credit card debt, it's a lot, uh but I just think in the grand scheme of your income, those weddings, those baby showers, those one-off things that you were talking about, there's absolutely no reason that that should not be a line item in the budget, you know? You know, your your firstborn's baby shower, put it on the budget. What are What are you going to spend $300?

Uh you know, we're we're funding this or we're funding that. >> I think Jade's on to something, Beth.

what with the income that you have and your husband's aversion to credit card debt, what is the thing that you're afraid of that is making you use the credit card for these purchases as opposed to cash flowing?

I think transparency, right? Letting him know how much I'm actually providing to our grown children. Got it. Is is

probably one of the biggest things. Um >> Because he's a bit of a tightwad.

Yes. >> Yeah, okay. >> he like, you know, he does he doesn't believe in vacations.

Um you know, he's content if, you know, we we don't eat out. Again, we we make this income, we're sharing one vehicle.

And and these are things where he's comfortable with because he wants to, you know, he wants to be so tight.

>> Yes. Got it. >> With our >> income and and and and the career I have in sales, my all all my coworkers are traveling the world and I'm like, well, I think I deserve >> On that on that front, I think you're right. I think both of you There's a give and take here, Ken. So, if I'm understanding you, Beth, thank you for being so honest cuz you're an awesome person. Um is this a bit of like a rebel rebel

kind of I'm going to be a rebel and show you. I'm going to put on a credit card so that you could get a dose of reality?

Squeaky. >> Well, since we're being transparent, I'm I'm the primary breadwinner, so um 140

of that is my income. So, part of me feels like I work really hard. I should have a say in what I'm doing with this money. But then I And again, I invest He

um his job is a little bit different, so he was like the game with a 401K.

Um and I've been investing in mine since uh I'm only 49, so >> a classic classic nerd squeaky behavior.

Yeah, but this is actually a little bit more than this. You're so tired of him squeaking around the house cuz he's so tight. You're just like, this is a little bit of a middle finger, isn't it? Mhm. It It kind of is.

>> I know it is. I just wanted you to say it. >> you can't stop me. I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I WANT TO DO. >> And Beth >> [laughter] >> And Beth, you are such an awesome sport, and I hope you feel that there's no judgment coming from me.

But I'm glad you >> No, no. I And I don't want to say that to him, right? No, but you said it to me, which is great.

But this is like a therapy session. You said it to me, no judgment coming from me or Jay. But I wanted you to admit it is the middle finger because I think you're going to have to resolve that.

You got to go, okay, that shouldn't be my response. We agree, he needs to loosen Yes, yes, he does. Yes, he does.

But you can solve this.

You don't need the debt. You don't need the middle finger part of it, either.

You guys, though, need to get >> loan. No 401K loan. You're going to hate yourself for that, trust me. What you need to do is have a candlelight dinner with Squeaky. And let's get on the same page finally in our marriage, and let's tell each other how we really feel. All right?

You're awesome. >> so much. I appreciate your advice. >> Yeah, Beth, you're great.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right. [music] Hey, folks.

When it comes to EveryDollar, the thing that we're telling you about all the time, >> [music] >> Um we love getting real stories because this is no longer a budgeting app, right? This has got the coaching involved in it. It's got the entire baby step program baked into it. And we love real feedback from people that are using it.

Here's a fan code. Every dollar is excellent. It really helped me to get my personal finances in order. Now that I'm married, my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account.

It really helps us maintain a common vision and a set of goals. And Jade, we love that because these are real people uh giving us feedback on how they're actually using it. Uh and we'd love for you to kick the tires and you can do that for free today uh in the App Store or Google Play.

entire Ramsey plan, the baby steps. Even for those of you who have just barely heard that phrase, you maybe listen for or watching for just a small amount of time, >> [snorts] >> it it is the plan and it's baked in there and you've got the coaching access to, not just the budget functionality.

Jade, I know you're the queen of Everydollar. Anything you want to add to that? >> I I when you say kick the tires, that was a the best thing you could have said. Give it a try. >> Give it a try. Nothing to be lost. Let's go to Hope now in Washington, D.C. Hope, how can we help?

Hi. Um thanks guys so much for having me on your show. Sure. What's going on today?

Um so, I just want to get you guys' opinion on what to do. Um I'm I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm just like at a little bit of a loss for path to home ownership. Um so, I'm like, do I do I need to go back to work? I mean, do I you know, I don't know. my eyes on the 15-year and the 30-year loan, do a 30. I mean, what I mean, what in the world do I do?

Um our our rent right now is 43% of our

income. We have no debt. I mean, what are we saving that for? Um we're we're doing pretty solid. We've got we've got the good emergency fund. Everything's solid there. We're not like necessarily um like paycheck to paycheck. Um we do have $250 a month we put towards

our savings. And every time I like run the calculator, I'm like, this is going to take 15 years to get a house.

What's the income? Sorry. Sorry, Ken.

>> You know, that's what I was asking. Go ahead.

Yeah, so my husband makes 90.

He's hoping to make 120, 130 in the next, you

know, few months or so.

But right now he's at 90. What would have to happen for him to jump up to 120, 130?

Get a different job. Is he looking?

He's working on, yeah. Okay. Have you started running the numbers on what the new take home would be if he were to get to that range?

Yeah. And this is like this is the scary part. This is why I I'm like, oh my gosh, you got to talk to you guys.

So I ran this through ChatGPT. I know that's like not the right way to do this, but you know, the median the median house in our area for like starter home is $550,000.

Like that's insane.

And just ChatGPT, I like was like, use the use the Ramsey do the reverse math. I tell me what we need. And like basically it was like came back with like we need to make at least $250,000 to be in that

under 25% of our of our income ratio at a 15-year

mortgage, you know, and and I just 20%

down. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is going to take forever. I get it. So what we need to do is reframe.

Right? Okay. >> So the question becomes, what is realistic uh as it relates to drive time. You know, and I I I don't know if you're actually in DC or in your Northern Virginia or Maryland, but I'm a Virginian and I can tell you Yeah, Northern Virginia is like in order to go to hell, you have to go through Northern Virginia, you know, on on the interstate, you know. So but I think you start there. What is realistic? Can we change the area that where where we live or would that just make life even worse?

I I it's a it's a good question. I mean, we've we've really talked about it. The problem is is um we have a we have Well, not the problem, I guess, but the blessing here is is that we have a really really really great church community. I mean, this is like I've never had such a great community. And so, it would be so >> Okay, I get it. So, I'm going to rapid response to you cuz I Jade's going to get involved here, but I'm going to do some rapid response to see where we are.

Okay, cuz then that frames the plan. All right? I bet you there's something that's a little bit smaller than you would ideally like to have that is less than 500,000, but would still be a house or some type of thing we own. True or false?

Yeah, absolutely. >> What's that number? What are those now? What's the range? Are we now 350? Well, yeah, I mean, so

350 is what I was trying to do, but I'm I'm not kidding. I literally I I told that to my realtor. I said we wanted to follow the Daveran plan. I was like, we want to find a 350 house. >> Did you say house or did you say would we'd be willing to do a townhouse or even a larger apart like a larger condo?

A larger condo would be good, but you know, with the HOAs and everything, our realtor literally laughed at us and then fired us. Okay, but hold on a second. I appreciate the response, but I mean, you can go on these real estate sites yourself and look for stuff.

>> Absolutely. So, my point is we've got to see what is possible. And right now, a $500,000 house is going to take a while

for you. That's the real real.

>> Yeah. Okay, but so now we need to adjust.

Okay? So, now it's not like I'd love to climb this mountain over here. Let's say I came home and I told my wife Stacy, I've got bitten by the mountain climbing bug. First of all, she would take me to the doctor. That's never going to happen. >> [laughter] >> But let's say it did for a moment, okay?

And she goes, "Okay, what are we talking about?" And I said, "Mount Everest.

That's the one I'm going for first." And she goes, "Okay, I need to know more." And I went down the rabbit hole of what it would take to climb Mount Everest. And I would find out that it would be the emotional equivalent of what you felt when you looked at a $500,000 house. I'm just keeping it real for people out there.

All right. At which point wouldn't you tell me, "Hope, maybe I should start with maybe you go to Hawaii and hike Diamond Head." >> You quietly burst their bubble.

>> [laughter] >> But don't you wouldn't you say to me, "Hope, Ken, you should probably change your expectations cuz cuz cuz Mount Everest is probably a ways down the road, but you could still get the same feeling and the same accomplishment and all the other things, but maybe we should work up to that." Would you say that to me, Hope, if you were talking to me? Probably. All right. So, I think that's what I'm trying to get at here.

Um what we got to do is is we got to crawl before we walk.

And so, we hate rent, but you know, husband's going to increase income and I heard you say this at the start of the call, yes, you should go to work. Agree.

Because if you can bring in 50, 60, and I'm making that up out of thin air, but that changes the game.

Now all of a sudden >> the the trade-off, right? Is is that we don't have family in the area.

So, there's no one that can watch our son. So, we'd have to go get I'd have to trade off to go do >> Not true.

Can I give you a a solution?

>> Yeah. You have an awesome church community. That's what you said.

Yeah. I'll bet you in a short amount of time with that awesome church community, we could find a grandmother who's bored out of her skull and she wants to get away from her husband for a 6, 7 hours a day and she would love to watch your son and do a little bit of laundry, maybe even some meal prep. And and just before you think I'm crazy, Hope, this is what we did when Stacy was working full-time and we had three kids.

got home. She helped with the homework.

She did some light laundry.

And she was thrilled. And yes, and she was a fraction of the cost of daycare.

Mhm. How old are your kids and how many are there? Just the one.

I just have I just the one and he's 8 months and then I want to have, you know, lots of kids and I'm hoping to homeschool at some point. >> Ken's idea because here's the thing, even if you weren't looking to buy today, if you just called and said, "Hey, my rent's 43% of my income." I'd go, "Oh, you got to go back to work." Because it's going to make it impossible to your point with the $250 margin per month. It's going to make it hard to really do anything uh long-term that you want to save up for that's going to cost any amount of money, right?

Now, let's look at it like just pragmatically here.

Yeah. Okay, if you're investing 15% that's got to be close to $1,100 a month that you're putting aside, am I right or wrong?

Um we are working towards that. So, I think we're at about 7% of his income right now is investing in um in retirement. >> Okay, you guys are young. Um we've Right. >> set aside for a house right now.

>> Okay, so what I would do, I would also for the short term, I would either mix that and say, you know, I we're only going to put, you know, 4% and so that we can put more towards this down payment or I would completely cut it off. I'd cut that off for up to 2 to 3 years while you save for this down payment, but I'm completely with Ken.

You need to be working. I'd temporarily pause retirement so that you can start saving up for this house and I would change my expectations. It took Ken, it took Sam and I 10 years to be able to >> save up for a house and let me tell you something, to this day, I never go, "Oh, the one regret in life is that I had bought my house 8 years earlier." I've never said it and you'll never hear me say it because it's simply not true.

>> And now they got a great house.

>> [music]

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>> Okay, today's question comes from Vanessa in North Carolina. She says, "Hey, am I wrong for not helping my sister and her family financially? She's a stay-at-home mom with four kids and a husband that works whenever he feels like it, which isn't often. They blow what little money they get as soon as it hits their bank account. I own a home, I

have a paid-off car, and I have money saved in retirement. I have already shelled out over $5,000 to help them.

Their most recent need is $1,000 to pay

their electric bill because they are behind on paying it. Is it okay to say

no? Now, Ken, we just came from Denver, Colorado, where we had an amazing Ramsey Show Live event. And in the event, you have a a wonderful bit that you do where you bust out the powdered wig.

>> I do. And you >> Kelly, you should see that wig. We've done it. It's the giant wig. Think of the colonial judge or the British judge.

Just want to paint a picture for people.

>> He's got the gavel and and the the base for the gavel. >> And I rule, and then I hand it to you and and whoever else is with me that time. So, if you're driving, if you're on a walk, if you're in the kitchen and this is on YouTube, if you got it in your AirPods, I want you to imagine Ken Coleman in his beautiful shoulder-length powdered George Washington wig.

>> And Ken, what would I say?

>> I'm going to ask you, is it okay for her

to say no to her sister? Yes, it is

okay. Not only is it okay, it is what you should do. >> Absolutely. >> This problem is not yours, number one.

Number two, this is not a problem that you or anyone else can solve.

So, number three >> Absolutely. Then you need to just move on. And it's the popular refrain from maybe the most popular Disney movie of all time, let it go. >> Let it go. >> There it is, folks.

>> And here's the thing, you've already shelled out 5,000, so they think that this is a dispensary that they can keep going back to for more. And that was that was your bad. And it's okay for you to write that wrong and go over to them and say, you know what? I understand why you're coming to me for this money.

I've given you money in the past. That was actually my mistake, and I've decided that I'm not able to contribute any more. And that's that. Yeah.

Best of luck to you. Yeah, it's tough.

Yeah. It's very easy for us to say because we have taken so many calls on the other side of this where this has gone on and on and on and on and on. Yeah, and this creates, by the way, so you think if you don't help out sis >> that it's going to ruin the relationship. And what I'm telling you is if you keep helping out sis, it will ruin the relationship.

>> So, the relationship is going to be ruined one way or the other, so let's go ahead and save ourselves a little bit of money. Now, if you really want to be cold-hearted, that's about as cold-hearted as it gets. But since you got me in the stuffy, you know, judge's robe [laughter] and the wig and the gavel, I have no emotion

emotions on this cuz we have just Am I right? We have been on the other side of this when this thing doesn't work.

>> Absolutely. And here's the thing, like I said this is all at the hand of their choices. If you had called me up and said, "Uh the the kid somebody ended up in the hospital or da da da da da da something that was completely out of their control." Yes, my heart softens immediately, especially if you have the money to spare, especially if they have proven to be people who are responsible, right? There are parameters that I think it's okay to step in and give a a helping hand, uh but this is not that scenario.

It is not even close, by the way. >> No. And I I just, Jade, have zero sympathy. I mean zero.

And I don't mind being called out on this, but I'm just being real.

They just kind of when he wants to. >> messed up. As a man, that's not a man.

I'm sorry. >> it and you work when you want to, I go, "Attaboy." Everybody wants to be on that team. But this is very different. We can't even pay the electric bill because homeboy won't get out of the Lazy Boy and go work. I have zero sympathy. I'm never going to help somebody who won't help themselves. >> with that. I agree with that. I'll take you back to the founding of our country.

I'm feeling very, very frisky on this one, all right? So here's the deal.

John Smith, this is a fact. This isn't just in your fourth grade history book.

Okay? The founding of Jamestown.

If you didn't work in Jamestown, they didn't give you rations. No work, no eat. John Smith had it right. I'm going to borrow it from John.

And so, you know, You don't work. >> What do the kids say you ate? You just ate and left no crumbs or something? Is that a thing?

Kids >> That That's what you just did. You ate and left no crumbs. >> That's why I thought I'd try to >> you said it right. You put him in his place.

Yeah, but it's never a good idea to pat yourself on the back with a comment. But I was just really really >> made a pun out of it, which is even better. Good job, Ken. >> Don't work, you don't eat.

It worked in Jamestown. In Jamestown, it'll work in your house. Chris in Austin, Texas is where we're going next.

Hey, so I've got a truck right now. It's pretty sweet truck, love it, had it for a few years, but I took out a loan for it, and now I'm on baby step two right now. And I'm still upside down on it. So, my question is, do I sell my truck and pay the stupid tax, or do I continue to pay it down and refinance it?

>> Mhm. Interesting. Is this your only debt?

I As of right now, there's about 5,000

on top of it from credit cards and personal loans that I took throughout the years trying to pay this debt down. It initially started uh at about 22, and then I took a consolidation loan and got it all the way up to 35, almost

$40,000 because I was dumb and racked up

those credit cards again.

But, now I paid it down to 2,000 left on the credit cards and 3,000 left on the personal loan, and that was over the last year when I started listening to you guys. >> Got it. Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay, so and tell me about the truck. What do you owe on it, and what's it worth?

So, I owe 46, and it's worth about 30. Oh, you're telling me. >> Oh, man. Okay.

What's your income?

So, I make about 96 total.

Okay. Um So, the good news is, you know, you paid 46 for the the the truck. You make 96.

You're kind of like right there at the halfway point. We always say you shouldn't have more than half your income invested in things with motors, things that are going down in value. You're right on the line. Uh if you wanted to, if you if you said, "Jade, I can have this thing paid off in 2 years.

I love the truck.

Oh, yeah. There's a good period after I got out of the Navy where I was just broke, so I agree with that. And I think that you might be in need of a fresh start financially.

And I think this could represent that. I think when you pay off the the last of this credit cards and the last of this personal loans, and when you clear out this truck, I think it gives you a fresh start. And that sounds really good, right?

Yeah. I think it does.

If I were in your shoes today, not for mathematical reasons so much as as a principled reason, I would sell this truck. And I would probably go down to a credit union. Honestly though, I don't care how you how you get the loan for this difference. I'd find I'd get a loan for the difference and maybe another 5,000 on top of it so that I can have a $20,000 debt instead of a $46,000 debt,

and I would clear out this truck and I drive like a $5,000 beater until you can clear out the remainder of that debt with your $96,000 income and

a few side hustles to boot. What do you think about that?

Well, I definitely have the capability of doing side hustles. So I I don't disagree with that at all.

My kind of guy. Listen.

>> Yeah. I agree. I can't add anything to it. I But you've already touched on it and I and I want to just acknowledge you and cheer for you. You've already acknowledged that you need to experience this pain. When you use the phrase the stupid tax, right? You get it. You're like, I I'm going to have to experience some pain to A get out of this and B remind myself never again. I've got scars in certain parts of my body.

One I've got on my hand I always refer to. I'm looking at it right now. I'm touching it. One of the dumbest things I ever did doing yard work. Cut my hand so badly had to go to the ER, stitches, everything. It was just a boneheaded. I was moving too fast. And I promise you Jade, from that day forward when I'm doing yard work, I am a lot slower, chilling out because that was a

very painful day. And I think Chris, this is beautiful. I think it's going to change your life if you do exactly what Jade does told you to do. Then what's going to happen is you're going to get out of it faster, but more importantly, you fully experience the pain cuz let's be honest, nobody wants to drive a $5,000 truck.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us today as we take your money calls. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. Let's go to Chris in Portland, Ohio. Chris, how can we help today?

Hi, I was wondering when is it appropriate to bring up finances or debt when dating.

Um, I'm divorced and getting back out

there and kind of just curious what the >> That's a good question and I got to tell you my favorite question of the day.

And the reason it's my favorite question of the day is I don't think there's a firm answer to this.

But I love that Jade's alongside of you, too, cuz this will be fun. Okay, I'm going to take the male perspective colored in my philosophy. >> Okay. All right? >> Go ahead. Um

I think as a male, if I'm dating

someone, when do I bring up money philosophy and money issues?

I think I bring it up

a couple of dates. So, we'll say two dates after I feel like that I want to pursue this lady. Like this is a this feels like I'm going to invest for the long haul because I think this is going to cash out. So, once I've determined that I think there's long-term potential, I'm talking marriage.

Then I think a couple dates later. So, there's no rhyme or reason other than I'm a feel guy. I'm all feel. So, I'm going, "Okay, I'm not going to do it right away, but maybe a couple dates later, maybe we're doing a longer date, maybe it's a we spend the day somewhere and it comes out in just natural conversation, not a you know, we've just finished the spaghetti and the tiramisu's on the way and I go, "All right, I'd like to talk about money." Like I don't want it to feel like we've shifted gears.

And I want it to feel real natural because this is a values conversation.

Now, that's what I mean by I'm trying to give the the male version with my philosophy swirled in. That's what I think. [laughter] So, that's that sounds I hope that sounds specific cuz it is to me.

But I don't know how long that is into the relationship, but I wouldn't bring up any kind of money thing until we know that we're interested in a long haul Yeah. I mean, I think part of it has I I love Ken's response. I And let me start there. So, I like what Ken said. I actually might start immediately, but not in the way that you think, not in a conversational way. I might you know, cuz money's touching everything, you know, it affects your daily habits. I might be very

uh intentional with some of my habits showing on the date. So, for instance,

if I, you know, >> Okay, this is great. Take Take me to first date. >> First date is um >> What are you going to show that's not You know, like let's say we go to the movies, right? And and he while he's doing the tickets, I I say, "You know, I'm going to head over here and get some some concessions, >> Okay.

right?" [laughter] And and I start As I'm coming back with the concessions, I'm folding the cash and putting it back in my Nice. So, it's like, oh And what is, by the way, what's the concession item you're getting? I'm getting the large popcorn uh because there's free refills and you can have the shareable buckets. >> So, you're going to do the um whether it's the right hand or left hand, you've got the bucket kind of cradled and you got the cash in your fingers that he can see.

Uh-huh.

>> I don't mind that. That is subtle.

>> hint, right? >> know if most dudes pick up on those kind of cuz we're idiots.

We don't [laughter] Guys can't find the mustard. I I've been married 20 years. I can't find the mustard in my refrigerator ever. So, I don't know if that works, but I like it.

>> In a conversation, we're talking. What are you going to say? So, what do you like to do? Da da da. And I throw in, uh you know, I love taking a vacation. I wasn't able to go with my girlfriends this year cuz it wasn't on the budget, but next year did it, right? I just throw in a little sprinkle it, a little seasoning hint. See, and tell Okay, let's continue to play this out. What are you looking for when you drop that?

At first, all I want him to do is if he's seeking to learn about me, he's picking that up. He's noticing that, right? Cuz on the first date, all you're doing is observing the other person's behavior. So, simultaneously, while you're dropping your hints, you're also observing, did he pay with the credit card?

Did he uh meant What are the little things he's mentioning? His truck, is it brand new? Because if he's driving a brand new truck, you can assume one of the two things, he's either loaded or he's broke. That's good.

That's a good That's a good call. >> picking up on these things and I agree with Ken.

would I sit down, you know, with my glasses over my nose and it's like, okay, now we have the money talk. It's like talking about kids on the first or second date. My gosh, you're going to scare the crap out of somebody that might be the one. Now, let's talk about if you have something to hide. Do you have something that is kind of like a bombshell or like, ooh.

I would do it No, no, I'm I feel like I'm um in a really good place uh and so

I don't want to get into a serious relationship with someone who like you said you know just took out a loan for a $40,000 new car cuz that's that's not that doesn't match my values and I don't want to Yeah.

So you're in great shape. You're just saying hey I want to start getting out there and dating or I am dating and I kind of want to figure out Yeah. Well I I I got to tell you I really really this will come as a big shock to the audience I will love my own advice here I I just >> [laughter] >> I think I think you get to pick you know the time frame I just wouldn't scare them off but I but I don't think you have to wait you know months to talk about it but I Mhm.

I like your combo I like how you came in on I I like Jade's like she feels like in a like a ninja over here. >> I'm a little detective. She's kind of like sneaking around little throwing star here little throwing star >> Yep. [laughter] Yeah.

So I don't know Chris that's our that's uh Now there is going to >> a bad track record with guys? Is that what this is about?

just getting back into it after you know being married for over 10 years and this is my first relationship since or

you know since college. Absolutely. So this this

is the whole dating thing is very very >> What was it like I have two young children. Yeah. two young children and so I want to Yeah. Your wise I'm curious What was the money What was the money situation like in your first marriage?

I mean it was joint and everything

um he he struggled to keep a job honestly

and I I'm nearly debt free now I have

you know basically $1,500 that I owe my parents on a car that I bought from them and that's all I have. >> Good for you. Um so that's a couple months and so uh Yeah, it I I'm hopeful for my future and

I want a partner who values the same thing. So >> Yeah, we are too. And I think you're going to find that. I think that you've got to like we said, you do your detective work, but you also hold open the chance for people to change.

>> Yes, I agree. You know, because and and it's not to say that you get into a relationship to change someone. I don't want you to hear that. But, what I do want you to hear is as you do start discussing these different philosophies on money, I love and Ken's the first to say this, I love the idea of asking questions and just listening.

Instead of you being the first to say, "Well, here's my views on debt. Blah blah blah blah blah." Right? Just ask questions and when the when when the time pops up, you know, maybe he does go to pay with his American Express and you say, "You know, we've been on a couple dinner dates. I noticed like you got that American Express, huh?" And just like bring it up and >> [music] >> ask him, "So, what's your philosophy on that?

you know? >> that. You know what? I just got one, Chris. This is kind of a fun one. You can use us.

Do the old "What kind of podcast do you listen to?" That's very normal now.

Let him go first, right? And by the way, this is a twofer on this one. You get two tests on this one. "Hey, what kind of podcast do you listen to?" And if he tells you and then he doesn't ask you what you listen to, what's going on? Narcissist, hello.

[laughter] But, if he does ask you, you tell him and you see how that goes.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, let's go to Jessica who joins us now from Washington D.C. Jessica, how can we help? >> [music] >> Hi, um, I want to I have a question about, um, paying down my debts. My husband's not on board. And he wants to

make minimum payments and, um, I wanted to pay it off with my saved saved up money. Okay.

>> money saved? >> Jessica, if you don't mind, could you speak a little louder? I know this may be nerve-racking and all that, but I want to make sure we and the audience can hear you. So, uh, go ahead and answer Jay's question for her.

Uh, about I have about 45K.

You have $45,000 saved. And you want to

pay off the debt and the husband's like, "No, let's keep that in a chunk and just pay minimum payments." Am I understanding that?

Yeah, and, uh, he doesn't have access to that money because I wanted to keep it Do you have separate accounts?

>> We don't, but I contribute some of my

income and, um, to the common

accounts and then I have some some money that I'm just putting, hopefully. Where is the 45,000? Is it in a savings account?

Yeah. How much is your total debt?

Um I have around 13,000 uh plus 45, so that is about

uh 68

plus 15k from my mom.

So about 60 to 70. Uh sweetheart, I'm

you got to speak up, Jessica. I am struggling. I know our audience is as well. I'm sorry. It's okay. I and I know you're probably nervous. It's just that we want to help you. We just don't understand you. So, your total debt

is this you and your husband? The stuff is in both of your names. Is is it so or is it a mix?

Yeah. Uh it's between our our names. And that's the total 68,000? Is that what I heard?

Yes, and also 25k uh student loan from his side. So, 25k plus

the 68?

Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay.

And you so that's 83. I want to make sure we're completely on the same page. You've got $83,000 total to take care of all of your debt. Yours, his, everybody.

Correct?

Yes. And you have 45,000 in a savings account that he knows about or doesn't know about?

He knows I have a savings account, but he doesn't know the number.

Are you concerned about what will happen? What are you more concerned about? Uh him finding out that you have the 45 or you going to bat on this idea

of paying off the debt?

So, I I don't mind uh him having access

to it, but I just don't trust him when it comes to spending. So, I I feel like

if he got access to everything, we would make um bad financial decisions and we

don't have anything to save up. Okay, that's the biggest That is the biggest issue in the room right now. Um the debt is is a big deal, but the biggest issue in the room is if if you tell me, I don't trust my spouse to know about money cuz they're just going to spend it, that's the that's the thing I want to tackle first because if you can't tackle that, no plan in the world is going to help you pay off debt or save money or build wealth, right? Would you agree with that?

Yeah, I agree. Cuz you won't be able to work together. So, um put Ken and I in the room and tell us what would happen if tonight you sit down and you say, um there's something I want to share with you, but I'm just being 100% honest

with you. When I consider sharing it with you, I'm afraid because I don't know if you'll be able to handle it and it's brought up bigger issues in the trust that I have for you and the lack of trust that I have for you. And you start to kind of run this thing out.

What's his response going to be? Is he going to be able to have a conversation like an emotionally mature adult or is this going to turn into something crazy?

Um we both have nice conversations. I I've tried it multiple times, but the problem is when it comes to implementing the plans, we don't do anything about it.

>> I'm not talking about implementing the plan. I'm talking about what you said when you said, I don't trust him to know about this money.

Yeah. Would he go in and take it?

He wouldn't take it. He wouldn't He wouldn't force me to So, he's actually a nice guy. This isn't like >> Yeah. He's a good guy. So, this is actually good news.

Um this would have been far more complex if you were worried about anything other than just a normal conversation.

Uh do you do you handle the finances for for your entire household? Do you handle it?

Yeah. We So, I don't even think we're handling it the way it should be handled. We're just spending money and we don't know what goes in. I understand, but I'm saying who pays the bills?

We paid all of our joint accounts. Yeah, but who actually hit send on the payment? Who goes into the app, hit send on the payment?

Uh it's generally me as I have auto pay for most of the bills. And that's what I'm getting at. Here's where I'm going with this, Jessica, and I want Jade to to weigh in. Where I'm going with this, Jade, is if he is not a jerk, and it sounds like he's not, and he's not dishonest, that's good.

>> Mhm. And they've had pleasant conversations, just nothing's changing.

>> That's right. >> But she's letting her lead on the administrative part of the finances, and that's what I heard. >> Mhm. I still think they have a conversation, but I think if this dude is kind of like hands-off and and when she says, "Hey, I'd like to do this." cuz she's an awesome wife, >> Yeah.

and she's being transparent, and he's kind of like, "Uh that's not how I want to roll." But but he's not like fighting her on it. I think it's a meeting to go, "This is what I'm going to do.

Is that too strong? >> No, I don't. I I will be honest with you. I'll be straight up. What I What I'm hearing What I'm hearing is just some immaturity on his point.

Uh I don't think that like it's to Ken's point, I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's a little immature when it comes to money. I think even the way you guys have the money set up where it's like there's a joint account, but we also have our personal accounts over here cuz he could have money to the side that you don't know anything about, right? And so I think the conversation needs to be in line with this.

I think we need more transparency because I think it's breeding mistrust, and I don't like that. I'm starting to feel it. I don't know if you're feeling it, too. Uh but I don't think that we can get on the same page with our numbers until we decide that we trust each other fully with our finances. I think that's that's topic number one. And then I think topic number two is you expressing how

holding onto debt makes you feel.

Because if we go straight to the numbers, I don't think it's going to get through because he's clearly not a numbers guy. But if you can get to the heart or the emotion of the matter, that might help it sink in. And then if you can seek to learn a little bit about why um where he stands on this. Like, why does the debt not bother you? Why have you distanced yourself from the money? It's cuz the more you know, that's power in the right? That's knowledge is power.

>> think that's wise, Jessica. It's great advice because here's what I think. I think you can influence him. I think so, too. >> to your page.

Cuz it doesn't sound in any way like this is something that can't be solved.

We've taken calls before where the husband is just like almost abusive on something, you know, verbally or certainly financially. And I think in this case, I love Jade's advice. I think you I think he just has one mindset on it. You got to start talking about it.

And I think you got to kind of own it.

>> tell me what the mindset is? He just doesn't want to give out money. He'd rather have it saved and then Well, but here's the problem. >> it's a comfort thing for him to have that money. Well, yes, but Jessica, here's what you have to help me understand.

Where $68,000 No, it's more than $68,000 >> 83. >> It's $83,000 of our so-called money has got to go out. We are completely underneath of it. And

I don't like the way it makes me feel.

And here's how this goes if we don't pay it off. Here's how this goes if we just pay minimum payments forever. I do think I think he has to be confronted with that.

And then all of a sudden he goes, "Oh." But I mean, you've got to lead him on this. Unfortunately, he's not leading, so you have to lead him. >> Mhm. And it is a math problem at the end of the day. Like I said, I don't think he's a numbers guy. But once you do tell him about this money you have saved because I think no matter what you do have to tell him that you have this money saved.

That then it is a math problem. You say, "Hey, you might you may think we have some, you know, some amount of money that we don't or some amount of debt, but the truth is we have $83,000 of debt. >> [music] >> And I've got 45,000 saved that you didn't know about. And even if we paid every dime toward that debt, we'd still owe 38,000.

[music] We're underwater and we're sinking and I'm concerned.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can." It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budgeting app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music] >> All right, Jade. I know you care about insurance. Oh my gosh.

>> You know, we just had this big ice apocalypse or whatever you call it, ice apocalypse in the the national area.

>> I I remember.

I lost trees, a bunch of my neighbors lost trees, and we were all talking. Yeah. in the street looking at the carnage about insurance. That's just something that's recently been on my radar. >> Yep, that's right. >> We all get it. We want to be covered.

And for you, some of you are probably over covered. In other words, maybe we can find a couple hundred bucks uh that goes towards the baby steps.

Some of you are under covered and it could derail you for a season on the train to the baby steps, right?

Or through them. And so, we have the Ramsey Solutions uh coverage checkup. This is free and it just allows you to plug in some numbers, quickly gives you a nice report that tells you you're either over covered or under covered and gives you an action plan. You can get that at ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

That's ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Let's go to Megan who joins us in Edmonton, Alberta. Megan, how can we help today?

Hi. Um I have a very odd question. Basically,

am I wrong for wanting to kick out a family member out of a house for my own benefit? I mean, I know how that sounds. >> [laughter] >> I mean, we need to know more.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What can you tell us?

>> Okay. I'm going to try and make this really streamlined. It's a very complicated situation. So, my dad died like 15 years ago and my mother recently passed away.

And she has a rental property, okay?

My cousins live in the rental property.

It's just It's just her and her husband.

And they were basically talking about how they were not going to stay there. They wanted to leave. And that was all fine with us

because the property is owned now after inheriting it. It's an owned now by me and my two sisters.

Okay. My two sisters don't want anything to do with the house. So, they want they want me to buy them out, which is fine because um our house currently, me and my husband, our house currently is too small for our our family. So, we were actually going to move into the rental property because it's bigger and can accommodate us. Okay. So, we were like, "No problem. We'll buy you out." >> How much would that cost?

About $350,000.

Okay. Keep going. Um so, we were going to rent out our current house because we only owe $50,000 on our current house and we

could rent it up and down. It's a two like it's suited. So, we could rent it for two units. Okay. And then we would have no mortgage payment. Like the renters would pay the 350, technically 400, I guess, if we paid off this house, if that makes sense. Okay? >> Uh-huh. I'm with you.

So, where's the hang-up? Where's the the bottleneck?

The hang-up is my cousin

doesn't want to leave yet.

>> Are they living rent-free or are they paying rent?

They are not paying rent. They are paying the cost of ownership of the property. So, like the property taxes and utilities or whatever. >> No wonder they don't want to move out.

I [laughter] know. I know. But it's Here's the thing. It It was It's a really long story, but short long story short, they had an agreement with my mother, like I don't know if there was some like my mother owed them something or whatever, but they have basically like a 5-year lease where they don't have to pay anything except the upkeep of the house.

So, they're basically living in the house and of the 5 years? Two two years.

that technically they could stay for 3 more years. Now, the problem is >> That's in writing? Like me and my sisters yes. So, me and my sisters we like agreed that they as long as it's not a cost to any of us that the cousins can stay. That's fine. Okay. But, the problem for me is our house is too small. It's too small.

And so, Got it. >> my husband and I want want to buy another house. We want to move, but the problem is if we go and we buy a house

then what let's say tomorrow the cousin we buy a house the cousin say, "Okay.

Uh just kidding. We're going to leave now." I see the problem.

>> won't qualify to pay out my sisters. Do

you know what I mean? So, I'm like do I go buy a house or do I kick them out?

>> What's on fire that you need to like that I know you your house is not big enough, but why is that? Did you just have a Did you just have babies? What happened in that suddenly I have to move now? I have one baby and I have another one on the way and we have a two-bedroom house. Okay. So, I'm going to say

something radical here.

And Okay. the radical thing is the kids

share a room.

And you do that for 3 years. It's like the rooms are like I'm in a very small house. >> square foot? >> Like 750.

>> Okay. Yes, you are correct. That is a That is a small Here, let me lay out your options because if I understand and if I'm wrong, stop me, okay? Because you did give me a lot of details.

The [laughter] cousin The cousins have a lease. And if the shoe were on the other foot,

you would want your lease to be honored.

And it's in writing. >> I don't have a problem I don't have a problem with them honoring the lease.

What I have a problem with is the fact that they're so like, "I'm going to move tomorrow. Oh, no, I'm not. Well, I don't know if I'm going to stay or if I'm going to go. Well, they can do that for the next 3 years.

They get to do that for the next 3 years cuz they have a lease. >> that puts us in a that puts us in a really hard spot for the next 3 years, right? >> the part where I want to decouple. I think that you need to decouple your plans from that or you have to just decide I'm not letting them take me on an emotional roller coaster.

I'm just saying I don't have access to this house for 3 years and I'm just telling myself that. If for some reason it comes open earlier, fine, whatever, but I'm not going to let them take me on an emotional roller coaster.

maximum age for your newborn is going to be 3 years old and that they share a room for a while cuz the other option, which I don't think that you would like, is to buy something else because you do know that this other house is on the horizon and what this reminds me of, Ken, is um just the old kind of like

sacrificing to win mentality. If you really, really want to be in that house, Megan, uh that rental property that was your mother's, there's probably going to be an element of sacrifice involved to get there because it's going to be a sweet deal once you're in there, right? Yeah, we talk about this a lot, you >> Would it be wrong to like offer them my house? Like you guys are just two people, like move into my small house and let us have the four-bedroom house, you know?

Is that the word? >> get What do you think the relational reaction is to that if you were to do that?

Uh what do you mean?

Well, I'm with Jade, it feels presumptuous, so how would that go over if you said it that way to to them?

How would they respond? >> know. >> If you say, "Hey, I want your house. I don't want you to be able to do the the the lease because I'm on a timeline here. So, you guys leave your house, come move into my house, pay me rent.

I mean, that's >> No, no, they don't even have to pay me rent. I'll honor the same deal. I just we just need a bigger place. That's all.

And like, we don't want to we don't we just don't want to go we've been looking at houses and we just don't want to go buy a house and then have it be like, "Oh, just kidding. Now you have to buy your sisters out and now you can't qualify because you bought another house." >> the thing. You don't have to do anything cuz let's go back. You don't have to buy your sisters out.

You don't This is a deal that you've constructed in your mind that is like the perfect solution, right? In your mind, the perfect solution is I buy my sisters out, I kick the cousins out, we get into the house, we get we do this sooner than later, right? Like that's your a fairy tale ending. But the truth is you don't have to move into this house.

Uh the truth is the timeline is a timeline that you've constructed because you're uncomfortable in the current house. That's just the truth. This is like bare-bones truth. I'm not saying it's uncomfortable by the way.

I'm sure it sucks. But I'm just saying that's the truth.

And I understand what you're saying, but it does drive me Oh, I I probably left out a small probably large detail. They own another house.

That they could be living in? >> They own a different house. >> been nice to know about eight minutes ago. We're going into a break. But either way, either way either way, you're putting your future and your destiny in the hands of other people. And whenever you do that, it is frustrating because they're not going to do you can't control them. And they've got a 5-year lease.

Sorry.

>> [music]

[music]

>> If you want to grow, get better at communication. Until you figure that out, you're not going to move forward.

I've been there. In my new book, Stop Talking, Start Communicating, I unpack

the one thing that unlocked communication for me, the DISC assessment. It blew my mind and it changed how I connect with everyone and I'll show you how to do the same. This is a game-changer. For $34.99, you'll get the book and the DISC assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/store.

All right, our scripture of the day is from Psalm 16:11. You make known to me the path of life. In your presence is fullness of joy. At your right hand are pleasures forever.

And our quote of the day from Jordan Peterson, it's a luxury to pursue what makes you happy. It's a moral obligation to pursue what you find meaningful.

That's a good word. I like that.

>> like that. All right, let's go to Christine who joins us in Orlando, Florida. Christine, how can we help?

Well, hi everyone. Thanks for having me on today. I have um retired parents in their late 70s. My brother who's 45 moved in with them at the beginning of the pandemic and hasn't left since.

My parents are supporting him And, you know, they're they're getting older. They're starting to have health issues. And I do not want to be

responsible for him after they're gone.

But, I'm having a hard time reconciling

the I guess you moral obligation versus um practical

obligation.

Why would you be responsible for the brother?

What type of What is there something wrong that he's requiring support?

No, other than he just has never worked.

And uh Oh. It's one Yeah. Yeah. A- And

uh it's one of those things where I'm afraid if no one takes care of him or supports him, he'll end up homeless and,

you know, bad things happen when Is he on drugs?

He's not. It would be an easier conversation if he was. >> So, I guess my my question is why are you drawing the conclusion that he's totally helpless and will end up on the streets if he's fully able-bodied,

healthy? That would then then just be his personal choice, then, wouldn't it?

It It You're absolutely right. It i- And it is absolutely his choice. It's It's the, you know, tug of He's my only He's

really my only family once my parents are gone. Um And do you really think that rather than Let's Let's just Let's play this out for a second. Let's I mean, unfortunately, let's pretend your your I mean, your parents they were they're beamed up, they move on. Let's pretend you've put your foot down and said, "You know what? You know, you can't move in with me, Bobby." And do you really think Bobby will end up Do you truly, in your heart of hearts, think that he will say, "Okay, tonight I'm sleeping in a box"?

Just about. Um the reason he moved in with my parents is because he was sleeping in his car.

And my dad didn't want that for him.

And you're sure there's nothing else going on with him?

I am sure. Um there may be some mental health issues there that have never been diagnosed. >> Okay. That's helpful to know. Yeah.

Uh this is tough because of what you just said there.

It feels like you've got to get a little bit more plugged in on this, right? Like I think you have to get hands-on and find out to the best of your ability what is going on with him. In other words, if he's just a slacker for a lack of a better word, >> response is different. If there's some legitimate Uh I got to be careful how I say this.

Like if there's some legitimate magnical medical diagnosis that [clears throat] um put him in a position where he literally cannot take care of himself, that's a wholly different conversation. And it doesn't sound like you know.

Uh you know, when I I would suspect um and again, he's never been tested, but my suspicion is that he's somewhere on the autism spectrum. Interesting. Okay.

>> but but I know that there are very intelligent successful people on the spectrum who, you know, still take care of themselves.

And I don't know why it is that he has

taken this route. He He made comments years ago to my husband when we were dating. This was years ago that you know, he didn't think he had to work that much cuz someday my parents would die and he would inherit. But my parents aren't that type of inheritance, you know, if if that makes sense. So, his

concept and relationship with money is

completely unrealistic.

Well, I I'm going to go back to what I said a minute ago. I don't know that I can give great advice cuz I don't know much at all about what's going on cuz you don't know. So, I think you've been detached. So, I do think that this is the right time for you to dig in.

I agree with that. >> And become completely aware of what's going on. So, it you know, you have to assess the situation, at which point that allows you to make a good decision. And I think you're a good person and I think you have common sense.

But, I mean, you know, are you the only sibling? You are? I >> Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. that that's a big heavyweight there. So, I I would want to know what's really going on. I would want to talk to him, by the way.

I'd sit down with the parents and have your parents tell you what's going on.

And ask them what their expectations are. Not because you feel you have to do what they say, but I would just want to read the room. And I'd want to know what mom and dad said. Want to be looking for are they making excuses for him?

I think you'll pick up on that pretty quickly. Have they enabled him? Okay, I'd want to know that. Then, I'd want to sit with brother and get his take and go, "What's your plan if mom and dad are gone?" Like, let's have these conversations so that and let's do it in a way that tries to get everything out on the table, Jade.

Like, let's get all the pieces of the game board out.

>> I would That's a great That's a third thing. So, there's a checklist of three things. At which point, you now have a lot more information than you do today.

Yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And I think the challenges I mean, you're right. These are conversations that have to happen.

Um my family has always been pretty close to the vest. My mom's favorite saying was, you know, don't we don't air our dirty laundry in public. So, it's hard to kind of get them to to come out of their shell, but it is reaching the point where something's going to give and it's going to give disastrously or we can be prepared for it.

>> Mhm. You're right. Yeah, I think Ken is spot-on with that checklist of three items. And then from there on, you can really evaluate your options.

I don't know that there is a world um because if he's getting evaluated, let's pretend it comes back and there is something there. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to try to get into it, but I there's a lot of nuance in what you're able to, you know, do and not do and accomplish and not accomplish and and what sort of care you might need or what type of therapies you might need.

you're a detective.

Right. I agree.

Right. So that you can decide what's my role as a steward. Mhm. You know. Mhm.

So the question becomes what happens?

Let's fast forward to cuz you called.

What do you what do you think of let's assume and Jade kind of hit you on this, but what how would you react if they were again gone? What would you do today knowing what little you know?

Yeah, if it were to happen today, I'm afraid I would just shut down to be honest with regards to that situation because it has been so

polarizing and emotional within our family. My parents [clears throat] I know were frustrated with him living there, but every time they try they have tried to talk to him about it, it he shuts down and they don't really get any answers.

So it's really hard to to navigate, but it it's something's got to give.

Okay, so what does shut down mean?

Meaning that you act like it doesn't exist and he you're he's dead to you kind of a deal shut down or or what? I

guess shut down in terms of maybe just yeah, walking walking away from the situation.

Um just being overwhelmed, not knowing what to do, um how to handle [clears throat] him when he's been um supported and and enabled um his his

whole life. Yeah, this is why again we got to go back to I think what you would have to do is not shut down, but hopefully you do this now. So if this happens you're ready.

You know, is he in a situation where he he be a ward of the state or some type of I you know and that's a little >> to probably pass through Medicaid. Like if if they play their cards right, yeah, there should be something there um for him which is so important to do those first steps.

Mhm. Yeah. Okay, well, that's what I wanted to know. I wanted to and so that tells me that so the reason I asked that question is because I wanted to know where your head is and your heart.

Mhm. And um it sounds to me like your head and heart are aligned that you don't think you should help him and quite frankly you don't want to. That still may not be an option, right? >> Right.

You may have to uh on some level and so I think >> Right, right.

Yeah. That's the goal.

So I hope that helps. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

No, thank you. Thank you and you know that's very helpful. Good. And here's the deal. Don't do anything out of guilt.

Do everything out of values.

Big difference. [music] Big difference.

Well, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 267. You Don’t Build Wealth by Ignoring Basic Financial Principles | December 30, 2025


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---

This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So, make a change and download every dollar today.

>> [music]

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Rachel Cruze joins me.

And we're here for you. 888-825-5225

888-825-5225 is the number to jump in and we would love to coach you up today. We start off with Dan in Grand Rapids. Dan, how can we help you today?

Um um my wife and I are preparing to retire. As a matter of fact, her last day of work is tomorrow. Mine will be the uh beginning of February. So, 40 years of effort towards this.

Um Dan, how are you Dan, I got to ask you this. This is I mean, we we men have to unite cuz we don't do this well. We got Rachel here to help us on this. Before we dive in, what is the plan when she finishes the day tomorrow and she wraps it up and comes home?

Um you know, we don't.

>> [laughter] >> It it came on pretty quick. We both had this date in February picked and then her department dissolved and they said you can either take a buyout or you can transfer to another department. So, this all happened for her in the last 3 weeks. So, >> Okay, but presumably she's excited about this?

Oh, absolutely, yes. >> Dan, listen, I don't want to spend too much time on this. Rachel's here to back me up. >> [laughter] >> This is where you got to step up.

I mean, this is you got to do something special. She comes home, maybe a little surprise. If she hates surprises, plan a little something. >> Yeah, a little retirement a little retirement celebration.

You're wrapping it up. We got to celebrate her is my point. I don't want to And I'm glad I said this, Dan, because you might have blown it had I not brought this up. >> [laughter] >> You're very I appreciate that. She works from home, but I will bring something home and make it monumental. She works from home. Okay. Rachel, what does he do in that situation? I feel like this is your category. >> Champagne. Pop the bottle. There >> Right outside the door.

Neither one of us drink, but I'll get some sparkling Boy, we're striking out, Dan. We're striking out. The grape juice. Sparkling grape juice. Okay. No, just do something special. All right, so we we've we've now helped you there.

That's the help you didn't know you needed. Now, keep going.

>> [laughter] >> We we are we work very hard to get where we're at and we're very comfortable with what we're planning for retirement.

We're very comfortable with our financial advisor, but I have one concern that he's got me a plan that he's got for me and we are going to put an addition on our house next spring.

So, we're planning to spend about 100 to 120,000 to do that. Now, my plan was

just kind of take that off the top of our 401k and our savings and and make that do the addition. What

he's suggesting, and he gave me I guess good reasons, is he's suggesting that I take out like a HELOC or a home equity loan to do this project and he said we'll chunk it away pretty quick, but he said there's reasons for that. First of all, I'll be paying a lower interest rate than he can make me. That's arguable.

The second thing he said was it is a definitely be a tax write-off and the third thing was the fact that it'll save

me 20 plus thousand dollars next year in taxes because of the tax bracket that he is aligning us with. And it just it it's very hard for me to think about going into debt immediately as I retire.

Well, yeah, 100% because is he What Where is he planning on having you guys pay off the HELOC? When he said he can throw a bunch of like a bunch of money at it. Is he thinking just a little bit every year so that you don't mess up the taxes and all of it?

Yeah, he's saying he'll chunk it away and I don't know how relevant chunking it away is if it's a year or 5 years, but he said we'll just make a monthly payment on it. And again, that it'll give us a tax advantage, it'll save us taxes and all this, which all kind of makes sense, but dang it, you know, just got myself 40 years of work to get out of debt and retire and then just thinking about going back into debt just kind of scares me.

clearly living a debt-free life has a price tag for you.

Uh you know, you can't put a price on it, but you know, it it's a value of yours that he's not putting into any consideration. And so, as he goes around but so Michael, yeah. So, no, I would not do this. I would 100% just cash flow

it. And if the cash flow comes out of I don't know if it's the 401k, if you guys have money elsewhere, um but you have the ability to cash flow, right, Dan?

Yeah, yeah, we we got a set amount that we're going into retirement with that we're comfortable with and it's going to last us long beyond our retirement.

>> Yep. >> And just thinking of taking out 100 or 120 right off the top of that and doing the addition was my plan until he came up with >> let's just put your plan >> a suggestion. Yeah, I yeah. I want to put your plan to the test, not his suggestion. We hate his suggestion.

Okay. So, let's put your plan to the test. Let's assume that you didn't get this advice at all.

Okay? >> Yes. And you just went ahead and pulled the trigger on your plan.

How do you feel emotionally about your plan? Any stress? Oh, I know, I don't think so. Um we've kind of intentionally we have this 403b that we've been carrying for a long time and I've been very aggressive with it and I took it from 20,000 to it's about 170 right now. So, my thought was that is just some play money we didn't actually not planning on, but we've accumulated that we'd do this project for. >> What's the addition for?

Oh, well, we raised seven kids in our house and it it was fine with nine people, but now what we find is with adult children, instead of nine people every day, we have 29 people, you know, 10 times a year. So, we want to double our kitchen and our living room. Double 450 How much How much How much do you guys have in retirement total?

Uh just about 2 million. Okay.

Golly. See, and he's going through all these hoops and stuff about this and that and that. You guys have 2 million dollars. Do you know what I mean?

And you want to take [clears throat] 100,000 of it. And if you go and burn that amount in the middle of the room, like you're not going to have any emotion towards it cuz it's such a small percentage of your net worth. So, that's where the peace of mind of your value system overrides his sneaking and maneuvering through where it's going to be not even that much money at the end of the day. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like I would rather I mean, Dan, you you answered your own question.

his plan gives me a little bit of heartburn. Enough that the Pepcid AC is not working and you called us today. Right?

>> It did, yeah. And I I I think I knew where you were going to take me, but I just kind of wanted to hear it. Yeah, and I appreciate that and we're happy to be here for you, but you, sir, are the ultimate arbiter on this. Your body,

your heart, your head. And man, you're just like, man, if I can put this addition on Yeah, and I would I would run it for my grandkids to be there.

Yeah, and I would run the numbers, too, cuz I am curious cuz the HELOCs like the the rates go up and down. Like it really is very dependent upon what's going on.

>> run the rates at all. I don't want you to be tempted. >> it's not a temptation, but it's that versus what You know what I mean? Like that versus the taxes that you're going to pay on a hun Like like what I'm saying is I think it ends up being closer to a wash than what you realize.

I think that the guy I I think I I think he's like nitpicking every little thing to say I'm making this number up. I I haven't done the calculations, but to save 10 gra Whatever the thing is and and that's pennies to you guys. So, I'm like, the peace of mind is worth that so much more. Yeah, just listening to you describe everything he told you versus your plan, yours is simple.

Boom. We're done. We're done. And do you

Do you all have >> I think you said kind of makes sense Do you Yeah, do you have money elsewhere, Dan, where to his point, do you have money sitting in a high-yield savings or something where you wouldn't necessarily have to pay taxes if you use that cash?

We have about a $40,000 savings account

and then a 401k.

I have a lump sum pension and a 403b.

>> Okay. Got you. Got you. Nope, that's great. Yeah, no, I would not go borrow on my house to do an addition when I freaking have the money for it. >> Yeah. That's that's the bottom line.

Trust your gut, Dan. There's a whole bunch of science on this that trusting the gut is not this mysterious thing.

It's actually the brain sending physical signals to the body and it we feel it in our body. That's a real thing. Has the same validity as the logic. Listen to your heart. Listen to your body. You were right. Thanks for calling. Tell the financial advisor, thanks, but no thanks.

>> [music]

>> The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed.

Living on a budget, staying out of debt,

and building wealth intentionally. Now, here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're

fine if you stay broke and frustrated.

And that's why I recommend Fairwinds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high-yield savings account, and the new Ramsey Be Weird debit card that says, "Debt is normal. Be weird." right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement because every time you use it, it says, "You control your money. Your

money doesn't control you." So, this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points, and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwinds.org/ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. >> Fairwinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

>> [music]

>> Well, you know, some days uh we have a fabulous audience. Most days for the show we have a fabulous audience comes to the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions and and uh we can see these fine people looking through the glass. We go out and say hi and all that kind of stuff. And today happens to be a birthday day. We've had uh two birthdays. And so, we had young Millie, um who was 28, and now

we just met the fabulous Carol,

who just turned 80 a couple days ago, and she's got the team out there. And notice the glasses. She's got a sash.

What do you call that? It's a uh yeah.

>> a sash? She's got a tiara.

And she's got these fabulous glasses, James. >> She's hating this right now, I think, isn't she? >> By the way, >> [laughter] >> Carol looked as though she was in shock, James. And she's very embarrassed by all the attention. And so, one of the party that she's with loaned me their glasses.

So, I wanted to say a special happy birthday to you, Carol. You look fabulous. You don't look a day over 50.

Uh and uh we're we're very blessed that you're here and and uh >> And they're about to hit the town. They're going to go to You should meet them at broad on Broadway.

>> I'm going to ask James if I can take the rest of the show off and I'm just going to head in there. >> ready to play Bennie and the Jets or something right [laughter] now.

Bennie and the Jets. So, there you go.

There you go. How about that? Very fun stuff. So, happy birthday again. So fun.

>> So fun when people spare uh spend their special day with us. >> I know. We get anniversaries. We get honeymoons sometimes. >> Yeah, we do. >> That's always the craziest one. I'm like, I can't believe you're here on your honeymoon. So fun. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Wiser Refi. Wiser Refi offers a different approach to paying off your defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate for less stress. Go to wiserrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y r e f y.com/ramsey.

It may not be available in all states.

All right, today's question comes from Aiden in New Mexico. My wife is a contract business consultant and is also self-employed as an artist. When it comes to paperwork, she's very disorganized. It has gotten to the point

where I have taken my tax documents to a tax preparer twice because I didn't want the IRS auditing me. I beg her every year to get her stuff together and to file on time, but it never happens, which leads to arguments. How do I get her to understand the seriousness of the situation? Oof. That's tough. Well, it's taxes. Like, it's back to taxes. Yeah.

>> Cuz you've got to do it. >> Yeah, and that's that's what I was going to say. Like, so this is a relationship issue. But in this situation, it's not you coming to the to the table with a hey, let me tell you about these baby steps.

Let me tell you about this Ramsey plan. I'd like to get us on a budget. Like, this is the federal government. >> This is the law.

[laughter] This is a yeah, there's no wiggle room here. So, it it it seems like it needs to be a reality check. This isn't trying to get her on board.

>> This is like we will go to jail.

>> This is the law. >> And I don't think I look good in orange, sweetheart. You [laughter] know, or whatever you got to say here. I This comes back to a relationship thing, but I I hate to make it so simplistic. I I want you to weigh in, but I I think it is hey, this is super serious.

This isn't my opinion. We have to do this. Let's make this a lot less difficult by Let's get all our stuff together and be be on the same page.

Yeah, and I think self-awareness is huge because she's an artist, and I'm not I'm not pointing fingers, but I do think there is a >> that's a fair point. >> When you are an artist, you there is a little bit more of a free spirit within you, right? Numbers is usually not your strength. And vice versa. So, people that are great with numbers are terrible usually at being creative. So, it's it's a again, it it is how you were wired and

gifted. And then I think it is a self-aware adult to say, hey, I have things and weaknesses in my life and in my personality. I'm going to be an adult, and I have to obey the law, but also what systems can I put in place to help me in those weaknesses cuz I'm not naturally good at all of this, right?

She's very disorganized, is what he said. So, um so that would be more of the conversation of, hey, what can we do to help you? It's not a point the finger Yep. at you constantly.

It is hey, yeah, this is the law, so it has to be done. So, what systems can we put in place together? And as the husband, I'm here to help you. And I mean, and he's like on his own, where he's like, I'm just taking my tax documents and blah over here, which I get cuz he doesn't want to go to jail, either, right? So, He's got to hedge his bets. >> Yeah, seriously. Um but I think it's it is hey, how can I help us help you put

some systems into place.

But there is a point that she has to be an adult. Right? Like, you can you can be on you can you can carve a situation in a conversation a certain way to a point.

But there's also a point, Kim, with all of this, especially the law, but then other things of like, my wife just continues to spend more, there's just a point that like you you're not able to change that person, and they have to be the adult, and it's sad when they're not. But we see that a lot around here, but It's a really tough situation. Thanks for sharing the question with us. Knoxville, Tennessee, the home of Go Vols.

>> Rachel's alma mater. Go Vols. Sam, is there? Sam, how can we help?

Yes, I have a question for you regarded

to my truck.

I have a 2001 truck, and it just rolled out of

warranty. I intend to keep the truck for

a longer period of time, or at least I hope so. Um and was offered an extended warranty

by the dealership. And so, what I did is

added up all of the cost of repairs that

wouldn't have been covered or weren't covered by warranty that no longer would, and it came out to about 8,800

bucks in 4 years that I've owned the truck. So, it hasn't been necessarily super reliable, uh very expensive to repair. And uh as I intend on keeping the truck or want to keep the truck, I kind of want to explore my options. Uh should I buy this warranty uh for $5,600?

Uh should I risk it, continue driving the truck for another 100,000 miles uh without warranty? Or should I go out and get a new truck with a fresh warranty?

Uh what what's your opinion, and kind of just want to gauge a direction to go in.

What's been the repairs? I mean, about 2,000 a year is what it ends up being.

What has it been? Yeah, it it's really a

little stuff, to be honest with you.

It's uh the motor in the tailgate. It's got one of these automatic tailgates.

It was the air conditioning control module in the dash. It was a sensor uh

in the I guess the parking sensor system. Yeah. Uh it's what I'm concerned about. Go ahead.

>> Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, I mean, you know, as you kind of look through this from a math perspective, it's less than like 200 bucks a month is what it ends up being, which just feels expensive. Like, if the stuff isn't being fixed, like that's one issue. Um but I'm not a big fan of extended warranties because I'm like, it's the thing should work, and if not, I would rather it be in my court.

I get Unless there's some crazy recall right now, Sam, and they're like, you know, giving you some discounts on the extended warranty or whatever it may be, but um I we usually factor in cars. We have a sinking fund that we've set up that if anything goes wrong with the cars, we use that sinking fund. So, again, for yours, it's coming out to be around $200 a month.

Yeah, no, you're right. And um for me,

it's not really a money issue. Um you know, the truck's paid off. Um right,

the 200 bucks a month is really negligible based on our income.

It's more kind of a

uh I guess a psychological feel. Do I keep throwing money at the truck Now, that's a different question. That's where I came down. Yeah, that's a different question.

>> where I came down. I agree with everything Rachel said. I'm going to come down on this one and go, I'm the kind of guy, this is the way I'm wired, where I'm I'm not going to keep dealing with this truck. I'm going to go, this thing's a lemon, or it's an issue with the manufacturer, and they just don't do a good job making the parts, and I'm just tired of this mess.

For me, cuz I in your situation, I would be in the same boat. Any mechanical work I got to do, I'm not stressed out about it. I got the money set aside, whatever, whatever, whatever.

Time is money. You remember that old phrase? Kind of true. There you go.

>> Sam, is that what you said?

Yeah, it's a 2001 with 80,000 miles on it, and it's a it's a hybrid. And I don't know if you kind of look into some of these hybrid issues, but if the hybrid motors or the battery >> 2021 or 2001? I didn't know they were making hybrids in '01. No, it's a 21. It's a 2021. Oh. Yeah, you kept saying '01. I was like, man, they were ahead of their game with I know. [laughter] That's what I was going to say. 2021.

I couldn't spell hybrid in Okay. So, 2021. That makes way more sense. I was like, this I'd get rid of it. I'd sell it. I'd sell it.

>> Okay. And that's somebody else's problem. And I'd go get myself a truck that had a much higher rating that I'm not in the shop all the time. And again, it's just the nick These are like little paper cuts, it feels like. What a nuisance, man. I'd be like, why would I buy your warranty? How about you make a better truck? That's what I'd have said to the dealer, but I can be sassy that way. But I feel like that's true.

>> How about I I got an idea. Why don't you make a better truck that I don't need all this warranty cuz all the stuff seems like it's little piddly stuff. [music] So, you've got the cash, I'd get rid of the nuisance, let it be somebody else's problem.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruze is alongside and we are here for you. 888-825-5225.

Henry's up

next in Tampa, Florida. Henry, how can we help?

Hi everybody. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. How are you guys? Good.

How are you today?

I'm all right. Uh, question for you. Um,

quick and easy question about I'm not I'm not easy question, but uh I have a a lease that I just I purchased in the last uh year or two there, but uh just heard about you guys. Um, the lease

is uh for the next uh two more years left on it there.

I wondering if I should ever get out of

it, pay out of the the lease there to get a some money, not necessarily money back there, but pay pay the lease there. Um, I mean, um sell sell the car or um get

out of the lease to be able to pay low pay pay something like that.

Yeah, it's a great question. What What are you paying a month?

1,500. Ooh. Oof. What kind of car is

that? A Mercedes GLE 350.

Well, a GLE is pretty nice. Pretty nice car. Good taste, Henry. You got You got some good taste.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

>> it's eating you alive and it's not worth it. So, we got We got to get it out of here, right? Okay. >> I Yeah, I just I just I mean I mean yeah, so I'm like that. >> Give us the uh terms of where you are Walk us through the terms.

All right. So, if I were to um terminate my payoff right now, it'd be about 60 60,000 dollars there to pay off there. I've looked on I've heard you guys talking about it, so I looked on the Kelly Blue Book and it's about you get 46 46 47,000

on it. Mhm. Um, and then um

uh um >> private sale? [clears throat] >> So, and I've Was that? Yeah, that's Yeah, so Kelly Blue Book private sale. So, that would leave you with 13,000 that you would owe, right?

Yeah. Yes.

And do you have any cash, Henry?

Not much, no. Okay, what do you make a year? Um, so uh I make about 250,000. Oh,

that's good news.

Yeah, that's great. So, you would need another car, correct?

Correct.

To be able to Yeah, to replace it. Yeah, so we got to replace it. So, we got the 13,000 that you would then owe, and then we've got the the cost of a replacement car, but with your income, you can get something decent if you really work on your budget, right? Yeah, that would be my goal, because two more years of this Oof. I mean, that's a lot, right? So

It's a good amount, yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, that I mean, I'm I'm

According to you guys, I'm I'm I mean I I was the This is the first time I ever thought of it like that I'm I'm broke, but I do owe have a good amount of debt as well, too, over a million dollars debt. Okay, so tell Yeah, give me the rest of your financial picture. I'm just curious where you're at. Um, so I um student loans 180,000.

Mhm. Credit card debt about 70,000.

Okay. And then mortgage is about 690,000.

Okay.

Ooh, Henry, you've been living the life, haven't you?

Uh, yes, me and my wife. Not So, I guess I Let me I Let me rephrase that, cuz you I know you mentioned total income. My wife is making 100,000, so total is 350.

Okay. You guys have plenty of money.

You just got to get it under control.

And yes, and you know, and that's the other thing, too, that trying to go from that life to hearing about you guys and changing life completely. Like I'm I'm I'm like, let's go hard. And I And my wife is like, what are you talking about there? So, you know, it's definitely different and hard there to actually talk to her about it as well, too, just the budget.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think, Henry, too, just as a piece of advice, usually when, you know, when people are in your position, the one that kind of hears, okay, there's a different way we can do this. And you go and tell your wife, we're going to stop shopping and stop eating out, she's probably like, what the [laughter] Henry, what are you talking about?

You've lost your mind.

why. So, I am curious, Henry, for you, what what has caused you up to this point living the way you have with money, both of you, and then you hear us, which is very counter with how you've been living, what's been appealing about that? Like, what is it in you that's like, oh my gosh, I want that side of money, not what I've been doing?

Um, the idea of freedom.

Yeah. I'm like I'm like trying to talk with you, but I'm like holding my breath and like the the heaviness of just owing

so much money. Like, the fact that I'm like, wait a second, I never thought about how much I owe and how much debt I'm in. I've always been thinking about right now, how much I owe for the month. Yep.

>> when I calculated it all after talking to you guys or listening to you guys, I was like, I owe a million Yeah.

Yep. And so, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore, especially when the wife says, oh, I'd love to have a new summer kitchen. I'm like, what are you talking about? We have no money for that. >> Yeah. That's right. That's right. So, Henry, that's that's what I want you to communicate to her. Mhm. Is I can't breathe. Like, I I And we hear that a lot, Henry. You're not the only one.

It's It's this level of stress and anxiety and weight, because you don't

own your life. Somebody These credit cards, right? Everything owns you.

And it's exhausting. And to your point, we work hard and I feel like I have no money, right? When I ask you how much money you have saved, it's like I don't have it. >> We work so much hard, like overtime sometimes, too, and I'm like, how do I How am I having nothing at the end of the paycheck there? I'm like, Right.

>> what everyone does? I don't understand this. Right. Exactly. So, how much do you guys bring home a month? I was I was trying to do it with taxes and everything, but when when you guys get paid, how much per month are you bringing in, both you and your wife? So, I think I I'm about 12 or 13,000 and she

is about 4,000. So, I would say about 16

17 16,000. 16,000. Okay. And that's

after taxes? Are you guys funding retirement? >> Yes. Um, yes. We have been putting in the retirement. >> You make $350,000

a year. You do.

Yes. No, no. Yes, the total. Total. So

So I don't understand those take-home numbers. What What What is your take-home? Yours, just you.

You Just me, about 16 16 16,000. I'm sorry, 12 12,000 for

me. And And And you're also >> you asked about the putting into retirement. Yes, I've been putting into retirement. >> Yeah, off of gross. So, what's your gross? Your gross and her gross.

Total gross is 350. Right. You're 250,

she's So, I >> She's 100. And then after taxes, retirement, insurance, like after all of that, right? What hits I just felt like her take-home was really low off of a $100,000 salary, her take-home would only be 4,000. That felt low to me. So, I just don't know if you know your numbers, and the reason I'm calling that out is part of this problem is you don't really know your numbers.

Yeah. Yeah. Or she's having way too much withholding taken out. And And at this point, you're brand new to us, Rachel.

Explain the retirement should be paused and all that right now to bring in as much as they can. Yeah, for sure. So, So, yeah. So, So, Henry, the the whole concept You guys really need to dig in, because if you're getting a big tax refund every year, that's money back in the paycheck that may not be shown here.

Uh, I would be pausing retirement. I'd be pausing everything. And you and your wife again sitting down and saying, hey, together. It's going to be really hard to do this without her.

So, I want Henry to be as honest and vulnerable with with her tonight and just talk about how scared I mean, how scared you are, honestly. >> with me? Do I [laughter] I know. We can't We'll coach you.

We'll coach you. No, but it Probably should have had her on this call. >> Yeah, and and and to show her and show her the realization and and the truth is, Henry, for your own mental sake, you can't you you guys can't keep doing this, right?

And so, um for you guys, it's going to look different. And so, I would sit down with her and just say, "Hey, here's where I want to go. Here's the goals I want to have." And you can kind of map them out ahead of time um just to say, "Okay, you know, we we have gosh, um yeah, almost almost a million dollars. Not not including the mortgage, but the credit cards, the student loan, all of it.

Mapping it out to say, "With our income and doing a budget and saying if we just cut everything." And Henry, to your point, this is going to be a 180 from the lifestyle you guys have been living. You've been living kind of the high life and enjoying life. And it's going to it to get out of this, we always say you can wander your way into debt, you cannot wander your way out. And so, there has to be an intentional plan.

>> That's right. But um but gosh, I mean, in in, you know, 3 or 4 years, you guys could have a completely different life financially speaking. >> think so. >> And you getting a side hustle, Henry?

>> love that. Yeah, adding, you know, adding more income and all of that. So, you know, if you stay on the line, Henry, Christian uh is going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University for you and your wife to sit down together and go through it.

It's our nine-lesson course. And this gives you the basics. And so, it can be she can get mad at us, not you, for delivering the information. >> I would say this, I think do what Rachel said as far as your approach to her, but I think you need to show her you mean business >> [music] >> by you getting rid of that car. Yep.

>> That will show her uh you're not just talking. Get it out of here. >> You're making some sacrifice. And then one of these days, you'll be driving one of those bad boys again, but it'll be cash. This is the Ramsey show.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

When it comes to your money, Ken, one of the largest [music] purchases that majority of people make is their home.

>> Yes. And when it comes to buying and selling your home, it can be very overwhelming, right? The whole housing market, the industry when it comes to real estate, it can be really hard to tackle, especially alone. And so, that's why we created Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base.

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All right, up next we're going to uh Diego in Sacramento.

Hey, Diego, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we >> wife and I just Uh yes, sorry. Uh yeah, my wife and I just had a baby and we've been having a discussion about opening a college account for my 529. And my wife is on the side of saving um as much as we can uh enough to pay for his whole uh

college tuition. And I'm more on the side of um maybe uh not doing that just because um you know, for for me, when I went to school, I didn't have that and I think it built a lot of character in myself. Um you know, my parents, they provided a place for me to sleep. Uh you know, they they didn't charge me any rent and you know, they provided food for me every day. So, um I I felt I felt like I was really blessed that in what they gave me, you know, what they could.

Um and I felt like it you know, it it built some character in me. I worked through school and and it um you know, showed me like, you know, the value of of money and and how, you know, um you know, what I'm paying for it for school. It you know, it it You know, that it just showed me the value of it. So, I just wanted to get your guys' opinion on whether maybe there's like a middle point between my wife and I or or maybe we should just avoid it altogether or or yeah, saving all of it that we can and do that good thing.

Well, I think it this comes down to, Rachel, how big of a stressor this is for you guys when you talk about it.

Oh, super low. I mean, we're we're very good about, you know, communicating. We never had a problem with that. Um Uh so, when you >> told her your point of view, did she agree with you and go, "Hmm, that's interesting." or did she go, "Uh it's too old school. I want to help."?

No, she yeah, she said yeah, pretty much what you're saying. Yeah, like she she would prefer you know, us having more, you know, a better better means than our parents did. And she's saying like we should know we should afford something like that. >> So, So, let me tell you, Diego, your um the way you're going about this and your your heart and your thought process, I really love because I do think that our kids have to have grit. Our kids have to

have a level of struggle. Our kids have to be able to know how to appreciate things, not be entitled, know how to work hard, right? Like all of these elements of who they're going to be at the character part of them, we all want as parents, right? Or at least I hope parents want that for their kids.

And that's what you're wanting, right? And so, what you're thinking is you're going to do it through the means of paying for their own college.

and and and also be able to have their college paid for?

Because, Diego, my parents paid for my college and I'll tell you there was stipulations around it. And so, we had to go to an in-state school.

We had to graduate in 4 years. And that was kind of the main barriers. So, I remember thinking, you know, I wanted to go to Auburn University and I remember Dad being like, "All right, well, calculate the tuition and the difference between a school in Tennessee, a public university in Tennessee, minus the tuition of a school in Alabama, you pay the difference." And I looked and I was like, "No, thanks. Go Vols.

I'll go in-state." And then it was, "All right, well, now I have to take 15 hours every semester." While some of my friends were taking nine, so, you know, cuz people would graduate a semester late or a year later and they kind of just like worked their way through. I had to be on a You know what I mean? Like I I had to have that schedule.

if your school is paid I don't think that's true. I think it's a way that you feel that. Winston, my husband, you know, he had to work his way through, not the tuition part, but everything else. He had to figure he had to have a job to pay rent and pay for food and all of that, right?

So, um so, I think that there are ways to accomplish what you want for your kids and it may look different. And I'll give you one more example then I'll be quiet like Ken jump in. But like for us right now, Diego, we have a nine, seven, and five-year-old.

And we have a lawn company mow our lawn.

And he really really struggled with our

kids not growing up watching him mow the lawn. Cuz he had a lawn care business in college and he was like, "I want my kids to see physical I want you know, he was so hard on that on him self on that.

But then as we talked, he was like, "But right now, my time is better spent with them on Saturdays than going and doing that. What are ways now that we almost have to manufacture a life where they don't get what they want. They're going to have to work and do things to get what they want." So, does that make sense? I just don't want to over-generalize that if your college is paid for, you're going to be some spoiled entitled brat.

And Yeah. And maybe it's revealed to them. >> And I'm glad you really segued nicely for me. You didn't even know it. I'm going to throw a different angle at you, Diego. Because on one hand, I love the fact that you're going, "I don't I don't owe my kids a college education." And I don't think you do.

Um but I'm not going to qualify this. I'm just going to say this. And this comes from experience.

Diego, just because you worked your way through college and you took all the benefits that you obviously did, doesn't mean that your child or children are going to do the same as you. Uh they aren't you, number one. They really aren't. They aren't you. They They They will have some of your DNA.

Uh but they are not you, and they will

have different experiences, they will have different environments growing up, and I think one of the challenges that we face, and I'm just being really vulnerable here that that I've had to learn as a father of three is that

the things that I did, the things that I learned, the way that I handled life is so unique to me, and I know I'm saying something that's completely obvious, but I think we forget this.

And I I would just say that in this case if you played this out the way that you desire. Let's say your wife just went, "I love that, Diego. Let's do that." There's a really high high probability

that one or both or all of your kids, however many you have won't deal with it the way that you dealt with it, and they may go, "Dad's out of his mind, the old coot. He's a goofball, and I'm going to go get a student loan, and because I can." And they get it done so effortlessly in the very thing that you idealized and kind of thought, "This is how I see it going." It would even break your heart.

It's very It's flexible as to how you can use those funds for lots of qualifications cuz the world Here's the other thing.

The world's changing. The world is changing so quickly right now. What will higher ed look like when these babies are to that age? You and I have zero

clue what's going to look like. So, I hope that perspective helps you. I don't think it's as easy as you just going, "This is how I want it to be because that's how it was for me." And I get that. If anybody gets that, believe me.

I actually talk like that sometimes.

>> [laughter] >> I mean, is that 100% Well, I'm trying to be transparent. I think that's true, and I think And again, I want to reiterate, Diego the sentiment of what you're longing for your kids to have is so good. Like, that is so good. Because we want our kids And you're right, other ways to do it.

But I think that there is I'm like there's there's different other And there's so much between And like have them pay for their car when they're 60, right? I mean, like there's things you can implement >> try an instrument, a sport, a hobby.

them fail. And they're going to, and the world's hard enough in general, right?

I'm like they're they're they're going to bump up against it, but I think you can create an environment with your within your home between now [music] and 18 um that creates, you know, I I I

knock on wood, I believe this, and I hope it's true, you know, not perfect kids [music] but kids that you are able to shape

under your household, and you as a parent [music] get to put some of those guardrails in place. And if you give them everything they want, are they going to be more spoiled? Sure. If they got to work and figure out and problem solve then that's going [music] to be good for them, too. So, I think there's ways you can do it. But thanks for the call, Diego. Thanks for all the guys in the booth. Thank you, Ken Coleman, and thank you, America. We'll [music] be back.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance, or

they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it, and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And Oh, you're telling me And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. They don't know what to do next. Me, too.

I mean You're going to have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> the two options. And carry your dadgum family, man.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Well, I'm sitting beside Rachel Cruze. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to be with you today, and we want to coach you up. 888-825-5225.

Antoinette is joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas. Antoinette, how can we help?

Well, um I'm going to be 62 next month,

and I don't have anything saved for retirement, and I want to become a first-time homeowner, and I don't know if that's stupid or ridiculous, or if it's possible.

Well, I don't think it's stupid or ridiculous. Let's focus on the possible part. Give us a picture of your financial situation given that you have zero retirement or very little retirement.

I have no retirement, and I have no money for a down payment, so I would have to go USDA or step five, something with a zero down, and so that would make my payments even higher. >> No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Do you have any debt?

Yes, I have some, but not unmanageable, and I'm getting it paid off really quick. >> Okay, how much debt do you have?

Uh I think Credit Karma said I had about uh $8,000 or something like that. I just paid off uh $600 worth of two of my accounts in the last month, so. Is the 8,000 credit cards or personal loans?

What is it?

Uh let's see. I paid off the personal loan, and so uh and one of them is my car. And uh the rest of them are credit cards. I've got I think four credit cards. How much is in your car? Uh do you owe on your car?

Uh gosh, I can't remember. Um I'm really bad with money, I mean, numbers, and so I just know that I just got it 2 months ago, and I had to trade in my other car because it was a 2019. It was convertible, and but it didn't convert anymore, and uh mechanically it was sound, but everything else on it was falling apart. So, I had to get rid of it, and I was upside down on it cuz uh last year it was worth uh $17,000, and then this year it was worth $5,000.

uh I owe more on the I mean, I had to get a minivan cuz I'm so popular, I can't have a little convertible. So, I owe more on my minivan than really I should, so. Okay, and you probably And did you roll over the negative negative equity on the um

on the convertible?

Yes. Into the minivan. Okay, so how much do you owe on the minivan?

I don't know.

You don't know. Antoinette, you signed a loan. You don't You don't know how much the total is.

That's right. All right. All right. She had to go to Credit Karma on the other thing. So, one of our problems, Antoinette, is you don't have a firm grasp of your numbers. Yeah, she already said she's bad with them, but it's not a case >> and I can't remember numbers.

Oh, but it's not about that. It's about do you have a file over in your house somewhere where we got the car information?

Yes, but I'm a truck driver, so my house is uh like 2,000 mi away.

Why do you need a minivan if you're driving a truck all the time?

I go home sometimes.

And you're popular, so you and the ladies are hopping in the minivan. Okay.

All right, I'm trying to catch up here.

Okay. Cuz I'm I'm trying to figure out, honestly, if we can sell the minivan.

>> What year is the minivan? What year?

Well, I had to go for a uh let's see here, a uh 2023,

I think.

Okay. You had to. We got to change the minivan. >> I mean, this could be 30, 40 thousand dollars. I mean, so Okay, so Antoinette

I want to paint you a picture. Yesterday in the show, we had a truck driver, Christopher. He paid off all of his debt.

And he has hundred I mean, tens of

thousands of dollars saved. I mean, he's just absolutely killing it, and he's a truck driver. He was telling us he had a Subaru, brand new, ended up selling it, had some you know, had to take out a small loan because it had gone down, and he was upside down a little bit. Uh bought an $8,000 Lexus. The Lexus gets

hit, he gets a check from the insurance

company for 9,000. He ends up buying a $2,000 car, takes the rest of that, and throws it at the debt, right? So, there's a way to do this, and even someone in your industry We literally just talked to him. He did his debt-free scream yesterday.

Here's the thing, Antoinette.

Okay, so the excuse that I am bad with numbers can't be an excuse anymore, okay? You are an adult, you are smart, you are capable, and we have to get this under control. So, the first thing I need you to do when we hang up is I need you to call the dealership uh or the

credit union wherever you got the loan for the van. Uh I want you to pull up the Credit Karma again, and know exactly exactly which credit cards are out there

and know exactly what you owe on them and companies. I want you to write a list down, and then take your phone and take a picture of it, so you have it documented. Even if you're out and about you have it documented. And then the plan is going to be homeownership is going to be down the line, okay, for you.

Um but I but I think the goal here is to get yourself out of debt. And Antoinette, I would You're more than likely going to have to sell the minivan, okay?

be out of this debt so that you can start saving for retirement. I don't want you driving, you know, have to be a truck driver for the rest of your life. I want you to be able to have a great retirement. And that's not going to be possible with the habits that you've been in.

Not only just financially, actually, but the way you're going about it and your attitude about it. You got to You've got to make the turn. And it can And it's going to be difficult and hard, but you need to get as much facts in front of you as possible because you don't know what you don't know. Are you an independent contractor?

I'm a company driver. I'm not kidding about having a bad memory, and I update

all of my bills every other month. I have a piece of paper that tells me I keep it on a program. I look at every one of them. I see how much interest that they're charging me. I see how much my balance is. And then I tally up my

total debt. I also look at Credit Karma a few times a week. I just have a bad memory. And if I had known that you were going to be asking me this question, I would have had this stuff together. >> Antoinette, you called a money show, my friend. You know what I mean? And so we were We're trying to help. We really are. And so my I know you are. My encouragement to you is that when there

when there is something a big big missing piece and the car loan is that for me right now that I need to I need you to know what it is because I may need you to make a really quick decision to sell it because you know how much the payment is each month?

Yes, the payment is uh $995.

Okay, almost $1,000. How much money do you get paid once a month?

Per month, what are you making?

Probably about 75

hundred. Okay. Okay. And And let me do a quick follow-up, Antoinette, cuz I didn't hear you. That's my fault. Did you say you're independent? And the reason I'm asking this, did you say you're independent? >> for a company. >> Okay, do they have a 401k or some type of retirement program that you can be contributing to?

Yes, but I don't because what what's the point of that at my age? Because you have nothing.

Yeah. >> So, we can run these numbers, but I mean, for the baby steps as we teach them is $1,000 in savings just for basic

emergencies. Baby step two is to pay off your debts smallest to largest. That's why Rachel leaned in there. We want to get the debt out of your life because we just learned that that could save us 900 bucks a month that could be going towards >> could be going towards your retirement.

And and so >> Why would I want a $2,000 beater car?

It's going to break down all the time. Well, you >> Antoinette, a $2,000 beater car doesn't always break down all the time. You can ask Christopher yesterday. He literally had a picture of his, and it runs great.

It's And I'm talking to a person who's super popular. You're in words. Have the ladies pick you up when you're not in the truck. >> a beater car. I don't want a beater car. I don't want a beater car. I want to get all of my family together and take them places. I hear you. Car in it I want a Lamborghini. I'm going to go with that.

Yeah. I don't need the argument. I want to dunk a basketball.

Uh but some things are not going to happen cuz I'm 5'8" and can't jump. You

know, if I want to retire with dignity, I've got to start saving money. And I can't save money if I'm in debt.

>> Hey, Antoinette, I want you to keep listening to the Ramsey Show for real. I want you to listen every single day for the next 6 months. Make that be your goal. Just as you're driving, listen to this show because I want this knowledge to soak in and this way of thinking and the way of life when it comes to money.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are here for you to answer your questions about your money, your work, your relationships.

And I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruze joins me. The phone number is 888-825- 5225. 888-825- 5225. Lindsey is going to join us now right here in our neck of the woods, Nashville, Tennessee. Lindsey, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Um

I am writing in with a relationship money question, actually. So, back in college, um my parents loaned me about

um $18,000 to go to college. It was $15,000 in principal and $3,000 in interest to

help me pay for college under the agreement that I would pay it off within 3 years of graduation. Um

Fortunately, I was I was able to do that. Um but after listening to many many episodes of your guys' show, um I

feel a little bit, you know, taken advantage of. Um and my question is, is

it worth expressing my feelings to my parents now despite the loan being paid back or do I just accept the lesson, don't borrow from family, and try to do better with my own kids going forward?

Okay, uh I'll start because I think I

represent my colleague here. I don't know that we can answer that question without understanding why it is you think they took advantage of you. Based on what you've laid out You knew what you were getting into, right? >> it doesn't sound like they took advantage of you. So, what are we missing that makes you feel like they took advantage of you?

Correct. So, I I knew um I knew the full amount when I signed for it. Um you know, they told me things like you can go get a loan from a bank, but God forbid something happen while you're paying them back, you know, we're your parents. We would be much more understanding um of that situation should it present itself. And I guess it's the whole charging interest thing um that

I I guess doesn't sit right.

>> Okay, another question.

You've paid this all back as I understand it. Correct? Correct.

[clears throat] Yes. >> When did you When did the the When did the tension arise over the interest? In

the middle of it, before you started paying it back, or after you got done with it? Paying the whole thing. >> after Yeah, more so after I got done with it, you know, >> How long after you got done with it?

Um it was about a year after.

>> What changed? What changed? So, and and I'm digging here on purpose. Rachel, thank you for giving me a little leeway here. It is a very fair question. So, let me explain it to the audience and to you one time, and then I want you to answer this. Mhm. So, you paid it back. You paid back the the full 18,000, and about three grand of it was the interest. Is that what I'm understanding?

It was 18, three of it was interest.

>> That's what I'm saying. So, okay. So, you paid it all back, all right? And a year after you paid it back,

at some point, at some day,

a year after you paid it back, this started to bother you. So, that tells me something happened. What happened, or dare I ask who happened?

Um so, it I I got married um a year

after a little over a year after I graduated college. And my husband and I were talking about it, and he was shocked that they charged me interest and thought it was horrible that a parent would charge a child interest on a loan. Hm. And you believed him all of a sudden.

Yes. >> Had it occurred to you before his comment that that might be a horrible, despicable thing in someone else's eyes?

Be honest. Sure.

It had occurred to you.

You're telling me at some point you're like, this I appreciate what my parents are doing, but I think this is a little This is a bit shady, though.

>> no, no, no. Sorry. Sorry. I I misunderstood your [clears throat] question. >> I know. I'm I'm I'm playing lawyer. I watch too many television shows. Here's my point. The the husband said this, and because of his understandable influence on you, and probably just by his sheer

reaction, which he's, by the way, has every right to his opinion, this totally shifted everything. So, I'm going to get out of the way and let Rachel weigh in, but I'm going to tell you my opinion now. I've gotten everything I need to know, >> [laughter] >> okay? So, my opinion is it's too late, and I don't think there was any tension or resentment at all until your hubs

opened his mouth. He has every right to open his mouth. He has every right to opine on what your parents did. I don't like how he said it because I think he should have been wiser and more mature.

And if he was on the phone, I'd tell him this. He has every right to his opinion, but he's now created some tension and resentment after the fact and and only

from his point of view. And so, for that

reason, no, I don't think you should bring it up to your parents.

And I think you need to figure out how to process this. Maybe it's therapy.

Uh but to create tension now

uh to me seems foolish. Yeah, I think I

think what's hard for me, Lindsey, where it does not feel like they took advantage of you is because everything was up front. If you had called and and

we've had these calls of people called they said, "Oh my gosh, we pulled my credit report after I got married to buy a house and I had a student loan on there. My parents took out a loan." "I remember signing papers at 18, but they never told me." You know, that's deceitful. Um people parents that um that loan with strings attached that we'll give you this money maybe for a down payment on a house, but you guys have to live this close to us. We have to see the grand You know, there's strings attached in relationships.

It's kind of gross. Like this sounds like even though we're not for You're exactly right. We are not for family members loaning money, period. But the way they did it, Lindsey, it was it sounded very clear, very up front.

And the reason they did it from what I hear is they did it from a situation that a it's less risk with the loan being held to them.

We're going to charge you And now if the three if the $3,000 um was unreasonable interest, right? If they're charging you 50% interest and they're taking advantage of you, that's gross and weird. But did they do that?

>> the average interest rate and they just said, "Hey, just just do the loan with us Yeah. because if something happens," their words, "will we can give you grace period." Like it won't hurt you financially. >> Um you know, that's the reason they did it. It wasn't a mathematical you're going to get a deal for from us.

We're going to give you this half off. So So Lindsey, I don't think they took advantage of you. I think >> You knew exactly what you were signing up for and I think that the reason they did it was so that a bank wasn't involved, but it wasn't a financial [clears throat] deal on their end. It was just a hey, here's this.

Did they charge you the going rate on interest?

Well, no. So it would have been um about

what what is that? 20% maybe? It was $1,000 for every $5,000 that I borrowed

from them. Okay. All right. 20% Yeah, so that's a little bit That's a little steep actually. >> Are your parents super tight?

Yes, very. Okay. So I I actually I'm

glad you brought this up, Rachel.

Sorry, I know I was diving in a little bit. Not try truly interrupting cuz I don't like that. >> Go, Ken. Go. What? >> Okay. Well, I personally wouldn't charge my kid interest. Mhm.

>> And then again, we don't loan our kids money. Nor am I going to. >> Right. >> But I'm trying to put myself in this. So it Remember the little classic, we tell you what we would do. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> do it, but if I'm sticking myself in I I think it's a little tight. I think it's a little tight.

>> But they didn't do anything >> advantage is a really That's strong language. >> like that language. >> it was deceitful or something. >> think they did. I am going to say though, Lindsey, I So I have another follow-up question. I can't wait for Rachel to get involved in this potentially. So the timeline for all of our viewers and listeners here, a quick review. It was a year after you paid it off that hubs and you have the conversation. He gets He gets upset and it affects you.

How much time between that first moment where he makes the comment and this phone call today? How much time has passed?

Uh years. We've been married for almost 3 years. Oh, wow. Okay. >> That really concerns me. I was very intrigued by this. So here we are.

Are you saying 3 years ago is when he first got alarmed and you started questioning this deal? 3 years ago?

>> Yes. All right. Yes. So you've been sitting on this for 3 years.

>> the loan's been paid off for 3 years as well. Four.

Loan's been paid off for four.

>> you. Yeah, I got I'm sorry. I'm so into the timeline here. So the question is Rachel, doesn't that concern you? I'm very concerned. >> Concerned? What do you mean that that she's just resentful? >> He's just boiling it up and she's calling us and I'm glad you called us.

Yeah. Lindsey, I would really I Stop talking about it. Get over it.

>> would release it, Lindsey. I really would. I think that yes, they're probably cheap to a degree like you said. >> Probably. Yeah, they're cheap. Okay.

>> time. But they but they didn't do anything deceitful. You knew exactly what you were signing up for. And so I think it's one of those things that again thankfully you had the money to pay them back and all of it, but the the [music] deal is like this isn't this is another reason, right? Why we don't loan money. So I'm glad you've been watching the show, Lindsey, cuz you're exactly right. This is [music] I would do this cuz it does feel weird.

And it's not only does it feel weird cuz you owe your parents money when we talk about that, but it's also weird in this situation when you look back and you're like, "Oh, gross. I don't like how that felt." So like >> [music] >> all of that is standard and justified.

>> Show.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Jessica now who joins us in Columbia, South Carolina.

Jessica, how can we help?

Yes. So my what question is I was a

victim of identity theft. I found out at 18 my mom had been using my social security number since I was 2 years old.

Um found out at 18 when I went to go get

a car and they wouldn't even touch me with the co-sign and I was with an 800 credit score. No money down. Found out I had 800 uh

$186,000 in credit card debt just alone.

Wait, a 100 Wait, say that again, Jessica. 100 and what?

$186,000 in credit card debt.

>> That your mom racked up?

Yes. >> Oh, Jessica. How long ago was this? Oh my word. I mean, all the way back to 2005. The most recent one was in 2021.

Um which was right before I was 18.

And I got it with an attorney and we got my credit wiped, but what left what it left me with was zero credit history and horrible credit score. Mhm. Not even a not even a secure credit card will touch me now.

Um I have a significant other. We're not married, but we have gone to plenty of financial advisers and we have been told both that our best option is to get married because again, I can't get even a credit card in my name. I'm an authorized user on only one card I can't be an authorized user on a lot of other credit cards. >> Jessica, slow down. I'm stuck. Slow No, you're not actually. This is going to be a great call for you because you're not stuck. But quick question here.

Uh and Rachel's going to give you some amazing guidance here. I promise you.

Mhm. But why are financial advisers telling you that the best thing to do is to get married? Cuz that feels like a financial reason, not a good reason to get married. So I want to dig into that first. What are What are we trying to accomplish? Yes, they always say um sign if I can't.

And I don't have a car in my name. I can't get a car of my own. We share my partner's car. We moved up here to South Carolina from Southwest Florida away from my grandmother and to live up here near my father. And I work from home which isn't a big deal, but our biggest issue right now is we have one car.

Okay. All right, slow down. Slow down.

I'm stuck. So you're not you're not stuck. This is This is the theme of this call. I know. All right, I'm just going to ask a quick question here. Rachel, I'll get out of your way, but but I want to ask a question here.

Yes. What do you do for a living and how much do you make? Can I have a quick follow-up? So give me the real quick stats. What do you do and how much do you make? I'm currently a debt collector for Advance America and I'm currently making about after commission 18 to 19 an hour, 40 hours a week. >> All right. So if if you could save up money for let's say you could save up $10,000.

I don't care how long it takes you.

Could you buy a car without a credit card? Could you buy a car with $10,000 cash? Yes or no?

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, there's plenty of good vehicles for >> price. >> So So I'm challenging some of your thinking here. I want to get Rachel's going to guide you here, but I I want to challenge this idea that you're stuck because you have no credit score and that you have to get married in order to have a car. Yeah.

>> You have a job and you can go buy a $5,000 car, a $7,500 car. I just want to

make sure you catch that.

Are you >> Definitely. Most definitely. >> All right. I want to get out of the way, Rachel, cuz I know you got some questions, but my >> I mean the paradigm shift that you have to have, Jessica, is a pretty big one because everything you've been talking about so far on this call has to do with how do I live my life around having a great credit score.

And actually, you called the Ramsey Show and we're the opposite. We actually >> Yeah. don't care about the credit score because primarily you use a credit score to go into more debt is what And that And you're finding that out. When you're trying to go get a car loan, they won't give it to you cuz you have a bad credit score.

You try to go deeper into debt with a credit card, they won't give you a credit card cuz of that. So, living debt-free, this is actually a gift, Jessica.

Most people who are listening right now could go apply for a credit card. You don't have the option. So, see that as a blessing because I don't want it as an option for you, even if you have a great credit score. So, how do we live life debt-free?

Well, number one, starting out, your biggest need is what you're saying is a car. I almost think your biggest need is maybe a new job. As a debt collector, that can't be a very fun job. So, I wouldn't condone even thinking Yeah.

Yeah, you're limited there. I think you can do some really great work, Jessica, and I think you can work overtime. Do you have kids? Yes, I do not.

I don't So, Jessica, I would make no kids.

Like, I mean, we're just going on the basics here. Everything else is going to go to save up for a car. And maybe $5,000 is your goal, whatever it may be, cuz you don't Do you have Do you have any consumer debt in your name?

No. No, it's all Okay, so and you're fighting this whole $186,000, right?

Well, we we we successfully sued the credit bureau and it got wiped 100%.

Okay, yes. Do you have any savings?

Currently, no. Um we just used our savings to move and, you know, get out

of South Florida because the jobs there weren't any good. Um and we're currently trying I'm trying to get back into college. I have one semester left to get my associate's, but again, my mother messing with my identity has affected my tax forms to getting grants and loans.

Oh. You don't need a loan to get one more Okay, but listen, listen, Jessica, you don't need a loan to get one more semester paid for. And I think your your [clears throat] remaining semester of your associate's degree is secondary to

what Rachel is saying, which is let's get some money saved, let's get on a budget, and let's buy a car. Cuz, Jessica, we we have people call the show all the time and they're trying to get out of debt. And so, when we talk about getting out of debt, for instance, we say you cut everything and you work extra. And we have people very nor- I mean, in a very uh normal rhythm on this show that are making an extra um thousand, twelve hundred dollars above their income on side hustles.

So, let's just make it a goal for you, and especially since you don't have kids, be like, "Hey, evenings, I'm working." Like, whether you're waiting tables, I mean, you are doing something. And let's just go crazy and let's say you earn an extra uh let's go two grand a month.

That means, sitting right now, where we are in the calendar, by July August, you could have a car.

By betwe- depending on how much that one semester costs you, between now and December, after you have a car, another couple of months of working extra, you could have saved, you know, six, eight thousand dollars for your tuition. So, that's like that's literally between now and the end of the calendar year, Jessica. So, like, it is possible. You just have to make some really big goals and you have to um not

that you're playing victim to this by any means, but don't be but don't be leaning on the on the credit industry to get you out. Jessica, you can get you out. We're fed our whole lives that credit is what matters. I mean, again, we moved up here with the intent to buy a home and we found out quickly that I couldn't be on it. And I guess that's really what debt is for. >> you don't need to buy a home with someone you're not married to, either, Jessica. So, Or get married. Or get

married at the advice of a financial advisor so you can get a car. All right, now, listen uh listen to this. I just found this is in the Columbia, South Carolina area, okay? Mhm. I just found a 2009 Toyota Camry, 182,000 miles, which on a Camry it might

as well be a new car, okay? That car can go for $482. Oh, I Oh, I know. All right, listen to this. $3,700 they want for this car. You walk up there with $3,200 in $100 bills And

that's two months. and say, "Guys, this is what I'm going to pay you for this car." They'll give it to you so fast your head will spin. No credit Do you hear me? Yes, I do. I've I've had plenty of I mean, my first car was an '05 Civic.

Okay, so Jessica, okay, so I Okay, so I want to know for you cuz I we've thrown out a couple of things, whether it's cars or college or um not buying a house

with someone you're not married to. And your rebuttal to us this whole call has been, "Oh, I know. Oh, I know." I know.

But why Why are you then still dabbling in this idea like, "I can't get credit card, I can't get a car loan, I can't get a student loan." Because you're saying you know, but you're still giving it an option. Why? No, I I think it's just more so again, I mean, we I mean, my whole family is I I mean, obviously, they're not you know, they got their own troubles, but the whole thing is to, you know, to have great credit and to not have this negative stuff dragging behind you. And even though I got my credit history wiped, you know, everything nowadays they want to pull some type of credit.

If you pay cash Buy now, pay later is horrible, Jessica. Like, that's why I'm telling you you don't need to worry about those stuff. You don't know. I know. No, you stop saying you know. It's more so the the knowing the availability and Yes, but you only need it, Jessica. You really only need it to go into debt. And that's what we're telling you is Pay cash.

>> Just pay cash for everything and you don't have to worry about it. And if some cell phone company pulls up your credit report, you can just show them the police report and be fine. Like, you you can get away with other things, but you you have to be convicted [music] about this, Jessica, or you're going to keep getting pulled. I feel like you're getting pulled into it even though you're saying I know.

So, you need to stand firm, pay cash for anything. It is possible, Jessica. You can [music] do this. And keep things separate from the boyfriend right now and live your life, get yourself a car, save up for [music] the semester, get your college degree, and ride off into the sunset, and then maybe get married cuz you love him, not because of his credit score.

She's been hypnotized.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Rachel, the all-new EveryDollar is here, and folks, it is truly way more than just our world-class budgeting app. I've been talking about this on the show. I I got a meeting with the team, and I said, "Show me all the Just take me in the thing. Give me Give me a tour." And it's amazing.

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Uh tons of advanced features, not just budgeting. Now, that's amazing, but the fact that you've got a digital coach, mentor, accountability partner, whatever you want to call it, all those facets are in there, fantastic. So, you got to go check it out. And give it a whirl, it's free.

And I'm going to tell you you're going to love it. Donna is up next in West Virginia. Donna, how can we help? Hi, uh Ken and Rachel.

Um I I love all the personalities, but Ken, I'm really glad you're there today. I love the way you spin a tale. You really make me chuckle. And I love your your story from a few weeks ago about the welfare chicken.

I grew up on a farm and can relate [laughter] to that. Thank you. Yes, thank you. The welfare chicken.

>> You didn't get in trouble for telling them to sell the chicken. I think I was on there with you during that. >> get in trouble, and uh I had forgotten about that, Donna. So, thank you.

That's really fun. Thank you, you're a sweet lady.

Oh, jeez. Uh Romney. Okay, do >> Do you know that town? I I think I've heard of it. Do you know Point Pleasant by any chance? Oh, that's way far away.

We're We're in the panhandle between Winchester, Virginia Oh, yeah. and Cumberland, Maryland. >> Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. I was born in that little teeny town of Point Pleasant, West Virginia.

>> Okay. I know where it is. I've been there. Well, I got to tell you, not many people have.

Yeah, that's right. It's across the state. But All right, Donna. Uh my sister from another mister here in West Virginia, how can we help today?

Well, I'm I'm 69 and my husband is almost 71, and um we started our careers

in the '70s, and at that time, people were saying, "Oh, you're so lucky. You have a pension. You'll have social security. You don't have to worry about retirement." So, we didn't. Uh and we're

doing fine now with our pension and our our uh social security, but we haven't saved a lot of money. And we had to put my mother a nursing home um last year,

an extended care nursing home, and it really scared me and shocked me at the cost per month for that stay. And what

my question is today, and I've I've been having friends tell me, you know, you need to sign your house over to your kids uh uh to save it from being taken and and all of this, and I know Dave says that

you shouldn't do that. I have heard him.

I haven't heard him talk a lot about that, but I have heard him say that. And I was just wondering what the pros and cons are to that, and if there if

there's no pros, what can we do, or is there something we can do to save our house? Well, let's let's go back a step. What are we what are we a fear What are we afraid that's going to happen that would even uh allow us to consider that advice?

What are you afraid's going to happen?

Oh, it for the uh signing your house over? >> Yeah. Oh, well, there's I guess a lot of

things. I mean, I've been listening to the Sto- Stewart uh show long enough that uh I know if you have kids, then anything happens to your kids, then then that can if they're in an accident or uh

anything like that uh Yeah, but you're talking about you but you're talking about your I'm talking about my house. Yes.

>> And and your house that my husband and I own. Sure. And you're worried you're going to lose it to who or why? Oh,

Medi- Medicare. I mean, if you can't pay if you go into a nursing home >> Oh, Medicaid's going to look at possessions. They're going to be looking at your Okay. Now now we're caught up.

Sorry. We we weren't 100% sure what Yeah, and the reason we do we say that is because a little bit it feels like you're hiding assets when you just sign it over when I mean, I don't >> I know. So, yeah, not a great not a great thing because you're basically lying to the government that you don't have an asset when you really do. So,

um okay, do you have long-term care insurance, Donna? We do, but I got it uh it's been

probably before I realized the cost. My father-in-law went into just an assistant living, and his was about $3,500 $4,000 a month. So, when we got our long-term care, it was very expensive anyway cuz I have some health issues, so it was high. And ours is only 3,000 a month. Okay. >> my mom's came up, and it was 14,500 a month, and I'm like I just I was just in shock that it was that expensive.

>> um okay, so a couple of things to think about that we don't know yet cuz how old are you guys? Uh I'm 69, my husband's 71. So, a lot of

different things. Um number one, you don't know if you guys are going to need a nursing home anyways.

Uh number two, if you did get to a point of a nursing home, um you know, there are things you can do. You can sell the house and use that to fund if you need to.

Um you there's also What What are you guys doing with your pension and all of that?

What What do you have coming in? Uh for per month? You mean what we have?

We have uh it's like $9,942.

Okay. So, I mean, it's it's decent, and we did just start 2 years ago we have started putting some away. Uh we both both bought I bought us

and my husband a spou- I'm still working a little bit. >> Okay. >> And I made enough money to be able to max out both uh Roth for me and a

spousal Roth for my husband. I did that when we got we got one of your uh pros.

Good. Great. And um he he said to get

one We got him in April, and he said, "Oh, hurry up and get a Roth before April 15th, 2024." >> right. So, we did that, and then when we finally sat down with him, we had enough money saved to do another one for 2025.

Wonderful. So, what do you have total?

What do you guys have total? We have uh 32,000 in uh Roth right now. And then we were

playing around just during the years, and we have about 50 that our uh

financial advisor is rolling over about 50,000 that he's rolling over into IRAs

now that we're still in with the companies that we retired from.

>> So, just below 100,000, and then what is your house worth?

About 400,000. Okay.

Yeah, so it would be one of these things if you guys did get into that situation,

whether it's the insurance, um some savings, you know, whatever you can put together um to get into a nursing home. And I'll be honest on it, this sounds it sounds horrible, but there is a stat that once you enter into a nursing home for on average, it's there's not that long of a stay usually.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not either. So, it is kind of one of the last steps that family members will take if they're not able to care for um you know, their family member. And and so, that would be kind of that that last step, if you will. So, if I was in your shoes, I may ask about upping the long-term care.

I'm just curious what other options are out there for you guys. Um I would be looking at that cuz that's going to be very helpful type of insurance for you all if the time comes that you need in-house care, nursing home, all of it. And you guys also are sitting on a great asset. And you know what I mean?

If something were to happen to either you or your husband, and you did get to a point that you guys didn't have the money to cash flow it, and yet there was a nursing home that you knew when he needed to be in, you know, him or yourself, there's always the possibility of selling the house, you know, and figuring out what to do there. So, Um Donna, I'm going to give you something Rachel made a great point. I looked it up. Uh the average length of stay in a nursing home is 485 days.

Now, of course, this varies, but averages do play out.

So, you know, it's horrible to but that's the reality, and we're talking about that. So, you know, between the pension and everything, I mean, Rachel, you make a very good point. It it's not like you got to fund this crazy amount for 5 years.

You know, so um I think you guys are doing everything you can. What How much longer do you think you're going to work?

Um as long as I can. I love it. Okay.

>> work full-time? No. No, I do occasionally.

Um I'm a teacher, and uh sometimes I'll take a long-term sub job, and sometimes right now I'm just doing day-to-day, and I love it.

>> love when Donna shows up to be the sub.

You seem like a really nice sub. Yeah. I hope they do. They always say they do, but you know. Well, that's good. And what about your husband? Is he officially done working or still working? >> Yes. No, he's officially done. He's a golfer. He's he's [laughter] fallen into the golf I love it.

Good for him. Well, at least there's a little bit of a foreshadowing of watching your mom and how expensive it has been for or your mom or your dad, um that you guys can start planning that if that time were to come, how [music] would we be able to cash flow that. So, thanks for the call, Donna. Uh do we know if people can search welfare chickens uh on Spotify or YouTube and find that rant?

Do we know? We don't know. I'm sure you can try. Well, they can't.

Oh, you all missed it. It was really great.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Alongside Rachel Cruze, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thanks for being with us. We're here for you. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. Let's go to Caitlyn, who joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Caitlyn, how can we help?

Hi, good afternoon. Um I'm a recent college graduate from West Virginia University, and I will start

paying student loan debt in January, and

I want to know what is the best and effective way to go about that. How much student loans do you have?

They will be around $26,000.

And is it multiple loans?

Yes. Okay, so what's the smallest amount?

Uh the smallest amount, I believe, is about $5,000.

Okay. All right, so what we Is that the only debt you have?

Yes, that is the only debt I have. All right. Rachel, walk her through the baby steps. >> you working?

Yes, ma'am. I work a um full-time job.

Great. How much do you make a month? How much do you bring in?

Um about a month, maybe maybe $1,500 a month. A month. Okay, what are you doing?

Um I work at a um boutique.

A boutique. Okay. >> of boutique?

Um a women's boutique, just a locally owned. Like a spa?

No, like a clothing store. Women's clothing. Oh.

>> [laughter] >> Sorry, little slow on that.

I was like, well, there's lots of different boutiques. There's like boutique hotels, boutique spas. Sorry. Fair. Okay. None of this matters. Why do you Why I have a question on what your income Yeah. That is for a college grad, that is way below what your expectations were, I'm guessing. Yes or no?

Yes, so I've had this job for about 2 years. I worked this job throughout college, and that is the job I'm still currently at. >> Okay, what did you get your degree in?

Uh business and marketing. So, what do you want to do? And I'm not going to put you under pressure here on a show live, but give me a general idea. It doesn't have to be a company and a title, but describe the work that you went to school for that you would love to have if I could just wave my pencil in the air and give it to you.

Well, the work I would be interested in is going into law school.

Okay. So, we went for business and marketing and we're like, "Eh, this is not what I want to do, but I'm just going to finish it." And then somewhere along the way we discovered, "I want to be a lawyer in a specific type of lawyer." Um corporate law, sir. Corporate law.

Okay, so a tie into the business and marketing.

Yes. Okay, what's law school going to cost you?

Law school is probably going to cost me around probably $100,000.

And where are you going?

I have not yet made my decision, um but I'll be taking the LSAT soon.

Okay, great. I want to make a quick commercial and I'll hand it to Rachel and but you got to get your Two things.

Number one, you need to get your income up. Right, right. >> making you should be making double.

>> I don't even care what you're doing. Yeah. At this point, you need to target a $40,000 Let's just put it out there. I don't want to limit you to that. But you you just need to get out there and find something cuz more cash the better. Now, uh and Rachel tell you what to do with that cash. But I just want to make a point on the LSAT. Um years ago I interviewed a a law school expert on this and this is a fact, by the way.

There are certain schools, you're going to have to do your homework on this, but you can figure it out easily, that based on your LSAT score, Rachel, if you get a high enough LSAT score, they will give you a full ride. And the reason is these aren't the prolific ones. Let me just go ahead and tell you.

>> Sure. This isn't Harvard.

>> It's not the big time schools. These are the schools who nobody wants to go to their law school, so therefore they're trying to get people into their law school cuz they want lawyers out there and they will give full ride. So, these are going to be smaller schools, not as well known, but they have legit law schools and let me just make my my pitch on this. Nobody cares where you got your law degree from. And so the the trade-off is, Caitlin, you have to pay for the LSAT.

And if you need to take the LSAT five times, take it. If we're aiming for and we feel

like the tutors will tell you, Mhm. "We can get you to the score which gets you a free ride." So, that's my commercial.

Yeah, it's worth investing, you know, five, six grand or it would be like in a like honestly, when you think about it.

Totally. >> With tutors and everything. >> know what the current LSAT cost is, but >> degree for free. So. Yeah, so that's what you need more money for. Yes.

>> Plus we got to pay off these loans. So, Rachel, tell her how we pay off these loans. >> that needs to be your way to law school, Caitlin. I really want you to Yeah. See that because you're going to be $126,000

in debt if you don't. So, we want to really work hard to avoid all those student loans. Um yeah, so it's getting your income up, Caitlin. So, I mean I really hate to say it, but I I mean I would probably be looking for another job.

I think it was a great thing to get you through college. But now that you're a college grad, you know, you made that investment for a reason.

my expenses. I would live on nothing and I would make it a goal to get this paid off in 18 months, 16 months, 14 months, you know, and so and I really think you can.

If you um do you have rent? Are you living at home? What's your living status?

Um I live at home with my family.

>> Okay, so no rent.

So, I would take full advantage and make a really, really aggressive goal of getting this paid off and then at the same time be looking at the LSAT stuff and make that also a part-time job. So, I don't know if it's a I don't know right now if it's a full-time job that you go and find, you know, a receptionist, I mean anything.

Like just go and answer phones. I mean do something.

>> Mhm. Or if you do the boutique during the day and you wait tables at night and you're doing a two two-day a you know, a two job a day kind of thing to double this income, but this income needs to be doubled, Caitlin. You're a college grad and I think that you have you have things to offer and and again it's it's kind of back to this college degree conversation that you got your degree for a reason to go and create a career

and and so taking that knowledge and going and doing that and upping this income is going to be is going to be your number one goal. >> Because Caitlin, here's the deal. You you are young enough and this debt is small enough that you can pay this off in a year.

But you got to make more income to be putting two grand a month away. So, like Rachel said, what must be true for me to

be able to sock two grand, $2,500 a

month away at the $26,000 loan? Knock

that out. Mhm. And get it out of the way before the interest starts hurting you.

Okay? Um because I know people that are that have your amount of loan debt and they're paying it for 15, 20 years because they're never catching up cuz the interest payment.

So, you want to get this out of your life and I just I'm telling you if you trust me and you do your research, you can go to law school for free or for a very reduced amount that you can cash flow. And most people don't know that. And please do that because you're going to just be so much more at peace. So, there's your homework assignment.

Pretty straightforward, but you got to hustle. Yep. Mhm. So, thanks for the call.

You know, Rachel, that is um I love when we get that call and I and I'll be honest, I've not interviewed people in other lanes, but I I would almost bet you there's other professional lanes like that that where certain schools are going, you know, like med schools are going, "We want to get people in here." And the sticker price on a Vanderbilt, which is in the shadow of our campus here, Yep. versus a small school, >> Totally, yes. And it's an in it's an ego play to go to a the say someone's like, "Hey, where's Where are you going to law school?" And it's a Yeah, Harvard Law School.

That maybe Yeah, and or you're going to one that no one's ever heard of. It take I mean you got to have some humility to it. But you're doing it in a wise way. You know what I mean?

And so there's something so smart about >> really comes up. Your clients aren't going to go, "Hey, uh I've heard rumors that you got your law degree from Greenbrier State. Is that true?" >> school, law school, med school. I bet George Camel when he had to took his dogs into the vet, he didn't say, "Let me see your degree before." He said, "Save my dogs." That was all [music] last week, so.

That poor guy.

That [laughter] poor guy and his dogs.

It's like a soap opera around here, folks. We don't have time to cover it.

We'll have him cover it, George, if he hosts here in the next week.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruze joins [music] me and we are here for you. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

We want to help you win in your relationships, in your work, and in your money. And speaking of winning with your money, you know, a lot of people right now, Rachel, are watching what is the Fed going to do. We've seen the interest rates on mortgages come down a little bit off of several year high and everybody's going, "Do I buy?

Do I sell right now? What do I do?" And we've got some great advice for them. >> Yeah, and even in the this showed, Ken, I feel like we've had a lot of home questions even about like, "Hey, what what's my next step?" Well, the the goal

is to make your home and home ownership a blessing, not a burden. And so if you are in a place where you're like, "Okay, I'm thinking about selling, I'm thinking about buying, maybe I'm a first-time home buyer." You know, having that 5% down payment is crucial.

Um a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage is what we recommend and for your payments be no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

It's kind of always been our formula for for decades, regardless of what the housing market is doing, that just keeps your household budget in a good spot.

But finding a house and specifically finding an agent that you trust who's really incredible and of high caliber in this area is really important. So, the Ramsey Trusted Program really is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and they're going to get the best offer on your house or is going to help you find the right house.

Ramsey Trusted Agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, the marketing, or in choosing the right offer as well if you're getting multiple offers. So, to find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent.

And again, use this resource, you guys, because this is home buying for majority of people it's the largest investment you make in your personal finance your personal finances. So, do it well and do it right with an agent that that we trust so that you can trust as well. So, ramseysolutions.com/agent.

>> Yeah, good stuff. All right, let's get back to the phones. Kansas City is where we're going to go and Jerry's there. Jerry, how can we help?

Uh yes, my question relates to the

national public data breach and what

sort of steps uh should I be taking to kind of make sure my social security isn't used to open a line of credit with

that or what what you know, what kind of things should I expect to do? Yeah, um I mean there's a there's a couple things, Jerry. You know, number one, you can just freeze your credit. If you're not currently in debt or using debt, you can do that.

That's a that's a line of protection, but having identity theft insurance >> Yes, yes, yes. >> is really, really key. It's really inexpensive and so I would recommend going to zander.com. Zander's who we use.

They actually they that's one of the benefits here at Ramsey Solutions is every every team member gets um identity theft as part of working here. That's how much we believe in it because stuff like this is going to happen more and more. Um so yeah, honestly, I would go to yeah, zander.com and check out their identity theft protection um and I would I would get a policy on you. I'd get a policy of every person in your household, honestly, too because even kids we're seeing identity theft, you know, happening within kids as well and people running up stuff on their credit and I mean it's just it is wild.

So, I would do that. There's a number here on our screen that you can call as well.

356-4282.

Uh and yeah, that's what I would do personally, Jerry. And I And then I mean, that's as That's as much offense as I know to do, Ken, uh on this unless something does happen, then you do have to take action. But if you have identity theft protection, uh they go in and do a lot for you. >> So, just to kind of catch people up who may not know the story here.

And Jerry, I'm glad you bring this up.

That's me, Rachel. That's That's all of you. And uh so, there is a a notorious

hacking group that's that has claimed to have stolen uh a ton of information. And so, this has been uh reported uh across a lot of news networks and and you can find this story. So, It happened what, 2 weeks ago? Yeah, just last week, actually. >> week, okay. Yeah, so uh so, that's what you can do. This is how you kind of check. So, do that freeze. Do exactly what Rachel said until you can check everything and then go get protected with Xander. Xander

Insurance, xander.com, 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282,

xander.com.

And uh they do a great job. We get an email every month tells us we're good or what might be something we need to check into. And uh that protection is And there's other services like DeleteMe and other places, too, um that that are incredible for for online scammers, as well. So, identity theft protection, again, you guys, it protects your identity, social security, all of that.

But then you think about how much our how much our information, not necessarily social security number, but just your address, your phone number. I mean, all this. I'm getting blown up political All the political stuff. And I'm like, where did my number get sold to?

Like, what list is, you know, is this to?

So, whether it's, you know, your your shipping something to, you know, or buying something, whatever it is. It's just you are I mean, it feels like I'm I'm putting in my information a lot on websites. >> the way, in just in the overabundance of giving you all information, the three credit bureaus that Rachel's talking about again, Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion. You just get It's a free deal. Call them or do it online.

>> You can put Yeah. And put a freeze on your credit. And uh and and and that will >> your report once a year, you guys, regardless of whether it's a data breach or not. Make sure you pull your And you can do that for free. Yeah. Um once a year. So, use those each of those companies and yeah, get three reports three times a year. All right. Let's uh let's go to John now in Los Angeles.

John, how can we help?

Hey there. How's it going, guys? Good. How are you?

Pretty good.

How can we help? >> So, um yeah, so I've been in college pretty much all my life. I'm about uh 33. I'll be graduating with a PhD next year.

My wife just graduated, so she started working. So, it's the first time we really have a real income in a shovel.

So, we have $100,000 in debt, no retirement uh savings.

And we kind of want to look into buying a house with next year when I graduate.

>> No. But we're not really Sure.

>> Yeah. No, John. No.

No, John. We're interrupting cuz you're not catching. No. >> No, no, no. Um Okay, John, what are y'all going to be making? Household income together, combined?

So, right now, today, combined, we make

170. Okay. When I start working, it should be 230. Great.

>> When I finish my post-doc cuz I still need a little bit more, it should be about 280 in about 3 years. 3 years,

okay. But in the next 4 months, 6 months, what will it be?

Uh still 170 while I'm finishing up my PhD. >> And when will it bump up to 230?

How long? Uh when I uh find a job, probably next summer. So, probably >> 12 months. Okay. >> September next year, yeah. Is the debt all student loans?

It's 60,000 in student loans, 40,000 in car loans. Oh. Okay. What's the car breakdown? What do you owe on each car?

It is 17 and 23,000.

Okay. >> Both pay off in about 4 years.

Yeah. Um Okay. How are you guys You guys currently are making 170, though, right?

Is what you said.

Um Yeah, so take home is 10,000 a month.

Okay. And basic necessities is between 3

and 4,000. >> Okay. So, my >> There's a lot of room there to tackle it. >> Yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah. No, you guys have a great income, which I'm so thankful for and it will continue to go up. Yeah, I think my goal, John, for you guys, if I was you between now and next summer, um is I would be working on these car loans. And you may run some numbers and see what could you sell the 17 for? The $17,000 one.

Uh they would both break even. So, I was just looking at it. Okay. And Cuz I just think >> They we owe pretty much exactly what we can trade in. Okay. Okay. You know, I mean, to jump-start this, um I mean, it you're not overly heavy in cars by any means from our, you know, um math when it comes to to when we look at car debt versus income.

Um but I would I would make it a goal, yeah, John, to to be cash flowing the rest of your school.

I would make it a goal to start paying off that smallest debt. So, even if it's a a small student loan, more than [music] before the car, you know, just start working that debt snowball, working the smallest debt to the largest debt. And then be saving an emergency fund. And then I would save for a down payment on a home.

But But I'm really encouraged, though, cuz your numbers, you guys can make some significant progress really fast if you stay focused and you guys have a plan. So, tonight, lay out a timeline between now [music] and the next 3 years and have some data points to say, yep, we want the car so, you know, paid off here. We want this student loan paid off here. And And you kind of map it [music] out to know that you guys will get to a saving to a down payment ASAP, which is where I want you guys.

Thanks for the call. Thanks for the call, John. We'll be back.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruze joins me. I'm Ken Coleman and you are listening and watching The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us.

888-825-5225 is the number. Stephanie is joining us now in Los Angeles. Stephanie, how can we help?

Hi. Um happy birthday, Rachel. >> Yay. Oh, thanks, Stephanie. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Um okay, so I am a

single mother of two girls. I've been a single mom for a long time now and um

I own a business. I'm a professional organizer. Um and I actually like coach

um families on how to like keep their lives together. Well, I just am really struggling financially. Um I ended up having to get a full-time job. I Long story short, my savings just got drained when I put employees on payroll out here in California. It's super expensive and um anyway, so I just I don't know the first thing about like good budgeting. I did not grow up. My parents like filed

bankruptcy three times. And I'm just trying to um set up a future for my children and I just want to get out of debt. So, I need some advice and I want to sell my car and yeah. Yeah.

Okay, I got a quick question before Rachel dives in cuz she can walk you through this, but I'm just curious. How does a person who is really good at teaching other people to be organized not figure out how to do a [clears throat] budget? I'm not saying that in a judgmental way.

No. Um so, I know how to

stick with a budget. What happened was I was going uh a custody battle came up in the middle of Okay. everything.

[clears throat] And um then my dad got early onset Alzheimer's. This is all like um in a

short period of time and it just threw me for a loop. And um a lot of my money went into custody. And um then I ended

up taking out an EIDL loan, which I I've

never been um like a credit card person, a loan person. Um I actually kind of got talked into getting a business credit card um for my business. And then cuz I was paying everything cash before that. Um

And the custody battle happened. I put the whole custody battle on my business credit card cuz I was like desperate.

And um So, yeah, this is where I'm at. And I never coached anyone on finances. I coach neurodivergent families how to like set up systems in their home homes like functional and how to like

live purposely in their home. And yeah, so But right now, I just I'm just in

over my head as far as what what to do.

Yeah, economy is not that great right now. >> making in your day job?

So, my full-time job, um I make $19.08

an hour. Um There is It's a sales job. Um I do like interior design. And so, we do get commission on designs, but I've yet to reach that commission because the whole bonus structure is just it doesn't make any sense. You have to sell at least $80,000 between installs or whatever. I don't know. So, I've never reached that and then my organizing job, I have three contractors. So, I

bring in right now it's not really good.

I bring in about maybe 2,000 a month

with that. So, it's but it's just so slow right now

and I just Yeah. I was making pretty good money and now over the last couple years it's just hasn't been that great. Yeah. And then you throw in things like a custody battle in the midst of it and Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I pay for everything for my kids. Like I don't get any help. I pay for the cars, insurance, everything.

Mhm. Wow. Yeah. Well, let me just say, you know, when it comes to your kids, when it comes to your health, like we are all about fighting the fight, right? I'm like it is you want to you want to do it. Um you know, cuz those those are the important things in life. So, that's I want I want to free you and, you know, not pile on any level of shame. Give yourself a lot of grace. So, okay, so how much debt, Stephanie, do you have?

Do you know?

Yes, so I have my $20,000 EIDL loan that

starts payments will start coming out in October. Okay. Um I owe

almost 9,000 on a credit card.

>> Okay. And then my my car is

I owe about 13,500 on that and then here's like the really hard part for me. Um I got behind on taxes. I just got paralyzed with fear, by the way, but I just I got behind on taxes 3 years.

Those are just finishing up being filed,

so I don't know what I owe on that yet.

Okay. Um so, I'm waiting on that. So, those are my Those are my debts and And

you're making 2,000 for your organization business. I know you're making 19 an hour for what you're doing, but do you How much How much will you bring home a month with that full-time job?

So, each check is about 1,200 and some

change after insurance and all of that.

>> And you get two checks a month? >> Each every 2 weeks. Correct, yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. So, it's a little less than 5 grands and have you been able to map out Are you able to pay your bills, Stephanie? Meaning your your mortgage, food, lights, etc. >> don't even I don't even have a mortgage.

I So, my rent I'm actually in a great situation as far as that goes. I I live in a two-bedroom apartment. It's um 1,200. I like this fuse to move because I'm so like nervous. I wanted to get my push, you know, finances in order first.

So, 1,200 for rent. Okay.

>> Yeah. And then um and then 404 for my car payment. Mhm.

>> of course utilities and all that stuff.

>> How much is How much is your car How much is your car worth? Do you know?

Um I'm not exactly sure. I did look on

like what other people are selling my car my type of car for and I saw anywhere from 15 to 19. Okay.

So, here's what I would suggest. I feel like for you, Stephanie, a good um a good win would be just a quick win to feel some level of traction because you're going to start to make some changes, right? When it comes to your money and those changes are going to be uncomfortable cuz you've never done this before.

debt that's gone. Just gone.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um and then and then looking

at yeah, your credit card, attacking that next. Um and then the the loan

after that, the $20,000 loan. Now, when your taxes come back, Stephanie, if you can't pay them by the tax deadline, go get a personal loan from the bank. I would rather you have a personal loan than owing the IRS, okay? So, that will be a step. Okay. And what you're going to do is pay off the smallest debts to the largest debts and and again, the car I think would give you some traction. Do you have any savings?

Uh no, my putting employees on payroll just drained my savings. I had about >> Okay, so you have nothing. Okay. >> So, you may want to relook to um I wish we had more time with you.

I would relook maybe the structure of your company. I just I don't I don't know if it's For sure. >> Like I It may be a thing It may be a thing, Stephanie, that you just say yeah, that you that you close it down for now. I mean, like is there something, you know, is there a way um to just take that burden off.

You're just carrying a lot. Yeah.

So, I do not have any employees on payroll anymore. Okay. Um it's all contractor jobs.

I just Yeah, I just contract. But to be honest, I am thinking about just going back to because it is stressful. Like owning a business I've had it since 2016. It's really It's a great business.

We were like all around California as far as like our um uh reputation and stuff, but I just I'm

so stressed about it, so I am thinking about stepping back and just working full-time and, you know, maybe taking on

jobs by myself for like extra income. Um

but as far as selling my car, that was actually what what the reason why I called you. I wanted to see if you thought that that was It's a great idea. I probably would, honestly.

I mean, that would be such a relief not to have that car payment every month.

>> is the payment? >> Yeah. What's the car payment? >> 404. It's uh 404. I mean, 400 bucks a

month. >> Stephanie, how much would you love a $400 raise per month? >> I would love to just like take that 400

and put it into like the rest of my debt and just That's right. No, that's right.

>> If you if you stay on the line, Kelly and Austin are going to pick up. We want to give you Financial Peace University.

It's our nine-lesson course, Stephanie, and EveryDollar Premium, it's our budgeting app. And then also, I'll have them connect you with a financial coach in your area because I know as a single mom, you're juggling a lot and I think sitting down with someone who has the heart of a teacher who can walk through really specific numbers and scenarios and it may only just take one session, [music] but it's better than a you know, 7-minute, you know, chat that we were able to have here on the show.

But we want to connect you with some of that stuff, Stephanie, cuz you're on the right track. You're like right there and you got to just start making those steps and you're going to feel a lot of traction. So, we're excited [music] for you. Cheering you on. We're going to take care of you. Thank you for calling. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruze is with me in studio this hour. 888-825-

5225. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. Our scripture today comes from Titus 2 verses 7 through 8. In everything set them an example by doing what is good.

In your teaching show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

And our quote of the day from Les Paul, don't say you can't until you prove you

can't. All right. How about that? There you go.

There it is. There you go. Thomas is joining us in Asheville, North Carolina.

Thomas, how can we help?

Uh thank you guys so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Uh so, um my father uh has planned a vacation for this summer for the whole family. I'm married, we have two children. My brother's married, he has three children. Um he gave us a little bit of

heads up on it, basically just asking when the kids would be going back to school and then he planned this trip uh for the end of summer. Um we're right in the middle of Baby Step 2. We should be debt-free by looks like November.

Um he's paid for the location and like

lodging and everything.

Um but my main concern is I work like 70 75 hours a week. Wow.

>> I don't have any paid I don't have any paid time off. So, my my main concern is is missing that income um while we're on

this trip.

Um so, I was kind of hoping to get you guys' advice on that. So, before Dad comes to you with this vacation idea, what was the plan? What were you and your wife thinking about summer? No vacation?

Yeah, I mean, we've been we've been busting it just trying to get everything paid off. >> It's gazelle intense. Yeah. So, I'm

going to I'm going to oversimplify it because I think this is the key issue.

You weren't going to go on a vacation and we and we agree with that. You guys are going hard. Man, you're working 70 75 hours a week. That's impressive. And you weren't planning to anyway. Now, Dad's asking you to do it.

>> Wait, I That's what I Not to jump in.

Did he ask or did he tell you guys?

Well, >> Did he say Well, that's that's an interesting part of it. >> little bit of both. You know, like my my brother has children. Our our our children have never met their cousins. He's kind of really loving the whole grandpa role and kind of wants everybody to get together. They're getting a little up there in age, so he kind of looked at it as an opportunity to get the whole family together one last time and have all the grandkids in one place cuz my brother lives 1,000 miles away from where I live, so. Yeah.

I would So, I think Well, I'll tell you what. I'll I'll ask one other question.

I want I want Rachel to see what she says here. Um is he paying for everything or just the lodging? Meaning you guys would have to pay for the travel to get there plus meals?

Um food, he he's handling food and

lodging, um, cuz I'll be doing most of the cooking. That's kind of how it's always worked out as he buys the food and I prepare it. Um, but we, I mean, we'll basically just be responsible for gas to and from. So, it's the, not so much the expense of the trip, but the, the missed income and the extra >> That's right. How many days will you guys be gone?

Uh, six or seven, depending on when we travel back.

All right, the only other question I have is can you, man, you're already working 70, 75 hours.

>> you to have a vacation. >> I, yeah, [snorts] but they weren't planning on it anyway. >> I know what So, so I, this is not so much like an opinion, it's, it's advice. And I think I would,

I would do what you believe is right to do. And I think I know the answer to that. I don't think you want to go, Thomas, right? >> think you do, either.

I, I really do. Um, I really want my kids to meet their cousins and I really want, you know, my parents the opportunity to have all their grandkids in one place because they're you know, two, five, six, and seven, and they've never all been in one place at the same time. But Um But, I mean, I'm just I'm concerned about >> a week of it, hold on. I'm going to be devil's advocate here for you.

>> hold on. Be devil's advocate here. I want him to finish that sentence. Okay, go.

Go, Thomas.

>> we've been working really hard and I'm just kind of

I guess very apprehensive about what that month's budget will look like with, you know, several hundred dollars missing from it.

And I don't want that to take away from what the experience is supposed to be if I'm there, you know, worried about that.

>> Mhm. So, have you added up how much money you will lose out on being there?

Um, probably about $1,100 or so, and that's >> Okay. not counting the gas to and from.

Sure, sure.

Um And how much, how much debt you guys have left?

Um, we've got about 13,000 left. Okay.

Uh >> What, what would it do to your budget? Would it stress you out without the 1,100? Would that make it super tight?

Um not particularly. We still have to factor in like, um, we haven't, you know, the kids' back to school stuff is going to be that month and the month prior to that is in August. So, we're kind of just I mean It feels like you're No, I didn't say that. Here's, I know, here's, okay. Thomas, you got to do what you got to do. Here's my, here's my devil's advocate. No, what would you do?

To be with, and again, this is if you want to, Thomas. If you feel guilted, if there's some weird emotional thing, if Dr. John Delony was in here and he's asking you like psychology questions of family stuff, right? Like if it was just a healthy situation I think giving up $1,100 to be with family for one week cuz it doesn't happen. It's not like this is a yearly tradition would be worth it.

Okay. >> For a family situation like that. And everything is paid for. Now, if they're making you pay for everything, that's one thing. You can't afford to go.

Everything is paid for and maybe you go half the time. Maybe you and your wife say, "Hey, we're going to go for four days." And there's something about living life still and this isn't taking you guys deeper

into debt. It may, it may slow it down for three weeks the debt snowball. I agree. I agree. It feels like this is a unique >> situation feels, this, the situation just feels so unique that it's, that

it's not going to happen.

And for $1,100, a part of me would say, "Oh my gosh, like go be with your family." I agree with that if that's what's going on. Thomas, I can't see you. >> don't know if Thomas wants to do it, but >> ask him. Thomas We, we definitely want to. I mean, >> forget the want to. No, here's what I'm asking. You're working 70 to 75 hours a week. Is that to pay off the debt faster

or is that to make ends meet and the $1,100 is going to make things super tight and it makes me feel like that's the case when you're talking about school supplies and $1,100?

>> $1,100, no. >> Hold on, let's let him answer. >> [laughter] >> Well, no, I mean, if I wasn't, if I was working 40 hours a week, all our basic

our, our budget could sustain on that.

The extra working It's the gazelle intensity. cuz we're put, we're putting about anywhere from an extra

probably 1,500 or so per month on the debt. So, back to Rachel's point, but behind. >> $1,100, not making that is not going to make life tight. It's just going to slow the snowball down. >> That's right. Yeah. Then I would, I agree with Rachel now that I have the facts. Wow.

>> let me, I was trying to get the facts from Thomas. >> the life raft and Ken said, "Sure, Rachel." No, I actually agree.

>> [laughter] >> I just needed to get to that point, though. >> That's good. That's good. I couldn't tell emotionally if he was, what's the 1,100 doing in this case?

I think because the kids have never seen each other before dad and mom are getting older, all the things you already said very well. Yeah. I, Thomas, I'm okay with that. >> And and honestly, Thomas, take four days of a paid for vacation as a gift of a little bit of rest, too, right?

I mean, y'all been working like crazy, which is amazing. It's exactly But there's, this is a unique thing and I, I would say go. >> only got one shot around this globe and I would do the family vacation knowing that the $1,100, um uh, you're not going to have that. The subtraction of that is not going to make things tight to where you can enjoy the vacation.

This guy's great to vacation with.

>> It sounds great. >> Hey, Thomas is coming. GREAT! LET'S GO GET THE BRISKET, you know?

>> [laughter] >> Thomas, here you go.

Uh, how do you feel now? You, you feel like this is the right move? You going to do it? You got to talk to the wife? What's the story?

Yeah, I, I'm going to talk to her about it. I think it's there's a mentality shift that needs to take place cuz I've been, we've been doing this since August. Yeah. I think it's a memory. >> And I don't want you to, and I don't want you to lose momentum, either. So, just see this as like a quick pause, a breather.

Paid for vacation and then you're back at it. But I think [music] the, the scope of family and cousins and all of that, there's something really special there that I would hate for you guys to miss out on because you wanted to pay off debt one month [music] later. >> That's right. And I'd make the old man cook one meal for heaven's sake.

>> Yeah. Maybe go half the time. All right, good hour, Rachel Cruze. Thank you, James Childers and our team. Thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

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## 268. You Don’t Escape Debt by Waiting—You Escape by Acting | January 27, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `Vjda8pL9jRI` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjda8pL9jRI) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:43 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken

Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the big hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is825-55225.

Pat's in Boisee, Idaho. Hi Pat, how are you? >> Hi Dave, thanks for talking to me. Um, I'm the executive for my dad's estate.

Uh, about 6 months after his death, I received a letter looking for the person who could act on his behalf. I looked up the company and it's a debt collection agency primaril primarily focused on collecting debts related to deceased individuals. >> Wow. They utilize techn Yep.

They take Yeah, I've never heard of this either. They utilize technology like probate finder on demand to identify and contact the personal representatives of estates to recover unpaid debt. So, my dad absolutely did not have any debt. He was Dave Ramsey while Dave was running around in diapers.

He didn't borrow money.

just from looking at unclaimed property, I do know that there is a gentleman who lived in the same metro area as my dad for many years who had his exact name first first name, middle initial, and last name. So I'm thinking, I don't know, maybe they're looking for that guy here. Here's the deal. I don't even want to talk to them. I don't want to spend time on this. I don't know if you need to know the name of the company, but how worried do I need to be?

Well, I mean, is the estate settled?

>> Uh, the the pro probate is is finished, but it's uh it's not closed yet. I haven't closed it. >> Okay. What What is lacking for it to be closed?

>> Nothing. I was just uh doing some final

insurance policies and transfer of his

property to my mother. So, that is done.

I can close the estate at any time. As far as I know, there was nothing that came up during the probate.

So, your mom's still there and she's sitting with whatever assets that they had.

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. Okay.

>> Um, well, um, I don't know Idaho law,

and I'm not an attorney anyway, even if I did. Um, but the, uh, uh, most states

have a period of time that a creditor can file a claim against an estate,

uh, before, after, or during the probate being open. Okay. And I don't know what yours is. Okay. Uh >> so if they So if they didn't, I'm probably good. >> Uh probably uh from from a legal

practical standpoint or from a legal standpoint. From a practical standpoint, um I I these folks um they they get they

have one little thread that they're hanging on and they're going to pull that thread and pull that thread and pull that thread. are eventually going to end up hassling your mom probably.

So, from a practical standpoint, I would put them down. >> I'm I'm her power of attorney, so they won't get much further than >> I know. I know. But if they start calling her, start mailing filling up

her mailbox with stuff. I don't think there's a legal issue. I don't think they've got a claim. You don't think they've got a claim? They're probably outside the notice of meeting to creditors period of time. All that kind of stuff. But that doesn't keep them from driving everybody in the in the soup crazy. Okay. So, I I probably would invest a few minutes and just shut him down.

>> How do I shut him down? >> I would just call him and say, um, he did not have any debt with you. I'm the

executive of the estate. Um, and um, you

can give him a social security number. Send them a copy of the death certificate. None of that hurts you in any way. and um uh you know are our you

know I'll give you the last four digits of social security numbers if it matches with what you think you're hunting but I think you're hunting this other guy and you need to stop and if you don't provide me proof of written proof of debt and you don't stop I'm going to sue

you under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because you're violating it now that I have told you that I am demanding proof of the debt

Can I just said demand proof of the debt without providing them anything to start with? >> I'll give them the last four digits social security number. What I'm trying to do is in case there's two brain cells on the guy you're talking to, if they happen to rub together, you want to give him a way to go away.

>> Oh, it's not him. I got to go the other way. Okay. Right.

But in case they're in case they if they think but the problem is some of these companies and what what you need to be prepared for is and I think you're kind of already there is they will try to collect from someone that is that they know is not legitimately the debt just by hassling them >> and that's what I'm worried about. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I'm not worried about it because you're going to shut them down.

>> Okay. we're going to block them >> and if they continue to pursue, um, I would have an attorney send them a letter under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because they're in violation of federal law if they continue to pursue after you show them that it is not his debt and you give them last four digits of social security number and they don't provide proof of debt. The other thing that's going to come up is they probably don't have proof of debt. They probably bought a line item on a spreadsheet. A lot of

debt buyers don't get the actual documentation on the debt. They just get a line item, point of last contact, some

details about a name, whatever the files got, and it's just a a whole list of line items. It's not like they have a file on him.

>> So, they point being, I don't think they can provide proof of debt, but I'm going to ask because I'm going to make one or two phone calls with these people and try to in a civil way make this go away.

But if you determine that a they're trying to collect from somebody just anybody and they just think they can hassle you, then just pound their face, right? And then uh and and or b that

they cannot provide proof of debt and they won't go away. What I'm more than anything trying to do is get them to quit calling you and quit calling your mom. >> And it's worth two phone calls to invest in that or to never call your mom.

>> Okay. Right. I like that. Okay.

>> Yeah. And then but again, write that down. It's the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Okay? And and it is federal law that they're violating. If you demand proof of the debt, they don't provide it and they continue to attempt collection.

Hammer them.

>> I was looking for something to add. You You covered it from every angle. You know, look, you got the facts and so don't be afraid to take this on and then shut it down. I think that's what this is. I don't think this is harassment. I just think Dave's nailed it. They don't have a lot of info. >> It's not harassment yet. It probably is going to be there if it doesn't stop.

>> That's right. >> So, the thing is, folks, you got to do debt buyers when they buy debts are typically paying anywhere from 2 to 8 cents on the dollar.

>> So, they're paying 80 bucks for a $1,000 debt. And they can't they can't even find the people in most cases. In this case, they're chasing deceased people's debt. Okay? So they're always trying to chase down the um this is basically

prospecting. Yeah. Yeah. It's they're dialing for dollars all day long. And you know it's a horrible job. And here's a here's you want to be worse than somebody trying to collect on an old debt. Collect on an old debt that you know the person is dead, >> right? >> I mean this is a bad job. Cleaning septic tanks is more fun.

>> And so honestly, seriously, oh my gosh, what a horrible position. So they probably got high turnover. Got a boiler room uh phone room going. Looks like something on Wolf of Wall Street or something. That's right. >> And um they're just, you know, and the average job time on the job's 21 days and they they're just constantly hiring new people that are dialing for dollars.

You're probably not going to talk to the same person twice. >> And they're brainwashed, by the way. They come at you with a script.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And so that they don't get knocked off.

So, you better really be strong and show a lot of facts. >> And the other thing is the neat thing about the technology is you can just hang the phone up. Just push end.

>> That's always enjoyable.

And then slide that little thing over that says block. And you're done.

They're done.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host day. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones 88 8255225.

Frankie Frankie is in Greenville, North

Carolina. Hi, Frankie. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have a pretty straightforward

question. Um, I talked to my dad yesterday and he wants me to pay for his life insurance policy. Um, he said I

should think of it like an investment and he doesn't want to actually pay for it himself. Um, so I just wanted some advice on maybe how I can talk to him

about paying for his own life insurance or should I pay for it myself?

>> That's so weird,

>> isn't it? >> Yeah. When you heard when you heard that, you had to go say what

>> I don't know if you said it out loud, but you said it in your head, didn't you, Frankie?

>> I did. And I And he said it to my mom and he said, you know, because he's not going to be receiving any of the benefits, >> I was like, well, I mean, that's kind of the point. Um, he was saying since he's

not going to be receiving it, I should pay for it >> since I can think of it like an old investment.

I'm 24. >> And how old is he?

>> 65. >> Is he ill?

>> Uh, not necessarily. I mean, he has some health issues, but I mean, for his age, he's >> But his death is not imminent as far as we know.

>> Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you could be doing this for like 30 years.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that's a hard pass.

That's a big That's a big N O. Nope.

Nope. Let's just call that. Let's check the not check the box beside nope.

>> Now, the qu your question was your question was though, how do I talk to him about it? Just go, "Dad, you know, I'm 24. I'm going to be doing other kinds of investing rather than in your death >> and um I don't I don't think we're going to go this way, but um thanks for the offer." >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think that

>> pretty simple. You don't need to be snarky about it. Although it's really tempting, but um

>> but it doesn't serve any purpose to be snarky about it other than make you feel just cuz it's just strange and he knows it's strange and I don't know. Your dad does stuff like this often, doesn't he?

>> Yes.

Yeah. >> Quirky quirky quirky dude. Okay. Yeah. I

just I would just smile and say, "Dad,

you know, thanks for the offer. I've kind of thought about this and I talked with my financial guys and they said I should just be doing regular investing rather than investing in your death and I'm just not comfortable doing that and so but thanks for the offer. No. And I really wouldn't go into a bunch of I wouldn't go into a long lengthy discussion about it. It's just a two sentences and no.

>> Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to play this back for him later.

>> Okay, that's fine. You could tell him. I said, "Obviously, he's quirky, but that cuz that's a really quirky thing to say >> to your 24-y old daughter, dude. If you're going to play it for him, I mean, >> I wouldn't do that to my 24-y old daughter.

>> You've got other things you should be doing with your life rather than investing in your dad's death. I mean, and besides that, mathematically, it's a bad investment >> because insurance companies make money on insurance,

>> right? the probability of his death is

and and the payout is less than the premiums that they think they're going to receive. If they don't receive premiums equal to the payout before he dies, they lose money on the insurance.

And if they do that often enough, they go out of business. So, insurance companies make money on insurance, which

by translation means it's not a good investment.

>> It is a good purchase for those of you out there. Uh we had a debtree scream yesterday I believe or day before yesterday that the young lady's husband was killed in a car wreck who's 30ome years old. Two months before they were debtree two months before that he had

gotten life insurance and he had a brand new baby. Now that's a good time to buy

life insurance. That's perfect. I mean

that that family's taken care of because that young man was just a stellar dad and husband. But this is a completely different thing. It's not a good investment mathematically. It is a protection for your family in the case of a horrible event happening. But if

your dad doesn't, he's 65, he may not need life insurance. If he's got enough money, he could not just not buy life insurance. I'm 63. I don't have any life insurance.

I have a huge pile of money and no debt.

If I die, Sharon's going to have a party. She doesn't need life insurance.

Okay. And it'll be a big party. I guess

not if I die. when I die, if I die

before her is what I should say, right?

>> Well, we will sell. >> We know that that's her plan and I'm a little worried about it, but yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, the data probably backs that up. I I would just say this that this is this is like common core math.

It just doesn't make sense and we already have good math. We don't need to invent something. This is just a wacky idea. The minute I heard it, it just wacky. >> Yeah. >> And you can't, by the way, reason with wacky. >> You just got to move on quickly. >> Yeah. I wouldn't. No, Dad. No, you

>> you didn't have to deal with Common Core math and I'm glad cuz it would have made the top of your head explode.

>> That must have been what happened. Okay, Joel is in Chicago. Hi Joel. What's up?

>> Hi guys. Pleasure to talk to both of you finally. Um I have a question about uh it's a death question. Um I just started listening to you guys a couple weeks ago. Um, I've been watching your podcast or listening to your podcast for like every day non-stop. Um, some me and my wife have

been talking about this and we're getting ready to start the baby steps.

We have the 10,000 already set. Um, the

issue that I'm having is is um I can get you guys some quick numbers real fast.

We're about 25 to 30 in credit card and personal loan debt. We have about 31,000 in two car loans. um 122 in our mortgage

and we have a second home which was our first purchase that still sits at about 40k and that's being rented currently.

Um and so >> what's your household income?

>> Uh we make around 140.

>> Okay. >> Combined before taxes >> and your your question is simply how to start the baby steps.

>> Yes. >> Okay. We get on an every dollar budget.

You and your wife are in agreement that we're going to get out of debt and we're going to sacrifice to do that because if you didn't have any of these payments, you'd have a lot of money. Agreed.

>> Exactly. >> And that's the whole idea. And so, do you have any savings that's not in retirement?

>> Um, no. Um, just just the 1K for the the

startup. >> You got the baby step one. Okay. Then we're going to list all these debts, smallest to largest.

We're going to pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as an extra job and you're not going to go on vacation. You are broke people that make $140,000 a year and you need to clean up this $70,000 worth of stupidity before you do anything else. Stupid butt car loans and all this other mess you've got.

>> I agree. Um the one the one thing I I did wanted to mention is um like the one car loan we owe 2,000 on it. So that'll be gone in like the next four months.

>> No no no it doesn't take four months to pay off 2,000 when you make 140.

>> Oh >> you do that the first.

>> Yeah I agree. I totally agree with that.

>> Um the second thing is the second car is our second vehicle which is an SUV. That one's the one that's sitting at about 29,000 and I told my wife we need to just get rid of the car and that's where she's kind of me on I wouldn't I don't think I don't think you The best way to get your wife on board is not say I want to sell your car.

>> Well, that's actually just like a weekend vehicle. I drive a personal I mean a work vehicle Monday through Friday. >> Is that your car? >> She drives >> uh it's kind of both our cars, but we use this cuz we have three kids. So, it's a larger vehicle for the family.

>> So, you have a work car?

>> Yep. >> That you own?

>> Uh it's a it's a company vehicle, but >> Okay. Oh, so it's a company vehicle. Okay. And then she has a car. Yep. Which is the one that's about to be paid off and that's a community vehicle to work every day. >> And the other one has 29,000 O on it.

>> Yep. >> Will her car that that she owns carry your family?

>> Yeah, we'll we'll fit. I mean, my oldest is is is about to finish high school and the other one, the smallest one, is like 10 years old. So, I mean, we fit not that not much space, but I told her, you know, something we could do if we really wanted is >> Yeah. The other thing you could do, what's the rental worth?

Um uh I think about 12 120 130.

>> Yeah, you could dump it and clean up the whole mess, but um either one of those is fine or or neither if you want to just bust all the way through it. You're going to trade sacrificed lifestyle, scorched earth lifestyle longer. You're going to stay in the mess longer if you don't move one or both of these other items. And that's the decision the two of you can make together. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The best way to make the most of your money is a plan. Tell your money

what to do instead of wondering where it went.

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That's kind of basic, y'all. I mean, it's really not hard, but it's hard

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Open phones at8255225.

John's in New York. Hey, John. How are you? >> Hi Dave. How are you, sir?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. So, um I'm around uh 20 I'm 23

years old and um I had around 57,000

liquid cash in the bank and um I got

kind of screwed over by the car industry uh twice now. Um when I was 19, I uh

bought a new Mustang, hindsight. Very bad mistake. Um and obviously I was

upside down and then uh now I have a Cadillac. Obviously I got it pre-owned.

I now that loan is around at 35,000. I just got it about eight nine months ago.

And then I have student loans of about 25,000. They're not crazy high because I went to community college. I've been listening to you guys for a while. And I just wanted to make your opinion.

>> What's that? >> What do you make?

>> Around 80,000. >> What do you do? >> I'm a bartender at my family's restaurant. >> Okay. Very cool. Very cool.

>> Thank you.

>> Okay. And so your question is what?

Should I because I've watched a couple

of your videos if I should just take the 57,000 and dump it into all the debt and just clear it, but then I have nothing left in my account or do I like do

thousands at a time and knock it down as quick as I can? >> Mhm.

Okay.

Is your goal um to be wealthy?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz you make a lot of money.

You're doing really good. Thank you.

>> You You must work really hard.

>> I do. Yeah, I work six days a week. Yes.

>> Yeah. And some serious hours, too. Yeah.

Good for you. >> Thank you. >> Good for you. Um I mean, you're pretty sweet spot for 23 years old overall. I mean, you've done some stupid stuff. So, um All right. Couple of things that come out of the conversation is one, you did not get screwed by the car industry. You got screwed by you >> because you walked on to the car lot and you bought a car you couldn't afford because you were acting like a child. Is that fair? Yes. Yeah, of course I did.

>> Okay. You're not a victim, dude. You caused this. All right. Both times. So,

I don't know what a guy making 80,000 bucks that's 23 years old working his butt off needs with a $35,000 Cadillac.

>> I don't know why you have to have that, >> right? >> You might rather have the cash than that, >> right? So, one option is sell a car and buy a

$10,000 car, >> right, >> for cash.

>> And then you don't have to give up all your cash. You just give up the Cadillac. >> That's the main thing I want to avoid is I don't want to just deplete all my savings that I worked for. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it then the Cadillac's on the on the block.

>> So, uh I mean, if you want to keep the Cadillac, you need to pay it off, >> right?

See, you're all your money's already gone. Paying it off. You just admit it.

>> Yeah. >> You've already spent the money. You just hadn't admitted it yet by paying off the debt. >> Of course. Yeah. >> So, you know, it's So, you can undo, but you can you can choose. Okay. Do I want cuz basically if you sold the car for 35,000 bucks um and you took $10,000 of

your and you broke even, got out of it, cleared it, right? Will it bring 35?

>> No, I think it'll bring 24 because I got I was upside down from the other.

>> Oh, you rolled negative into it. Okay.

>> Yeah, I was around 9,000 negative and then I put five. >> So, you're going to spend 10 of your money even if you sell it and you're going to spend another 10 of your money to buy a car and you're going to spend some money to pay off the student loan debt, >> right? >> And you said so you said 25 in student loans. >> Yes, sir.

>> Okay. So you're 60 and you got 57. So you don't have enough to pay off everything. >> Yeah. >> Quite. But I mean, you're making money and you're used to stacking cash cuz you So all right, the premise is this.

>> If we could get you where you had no payments, student loan and the car payments gone through whatever mechanism, either paying it off or selling the car, either one, right?

>> You ch you choose. Okay. If we can get you where you don't have any payments, but you most of your money is gone, you

without any payments, making 80k, you could stack that cash up real quick again. It won't take long. Just a few months. >> I mean, you probably save five six thousand bucks a month, can't you? If you don't have any payments.

>> Yeah. >> Are you living at home?

>> I am. Yeah. We me and my mom and dad live above the restaurant. >> Yeah. So, you got almost no overhead. I thought that. Okay. So, that's how that's how the 57 got there. Mhm.

>> I got some quick numbers here. Uh I want to run with you here. I think you're still walking away with Dave's plan with 11,000 in cash because if you owe 11, so

you're going to pull 11 out to because you're upside down. You're going to spend 10 on another car. So that's 21.

57 minus 21 is 36. We owe 25 in student

loan. That leaves you with 11K >> and no payments. No payments in a paid for $10,000 car. >> And you live at home with a pretty secure job. I'm >> And you're stacking cash like a boss, man. Right. >> You could you you could stack 6,000 I mean in 10 months you'd have 60,000 bucks on top of the 11. You'd have $71,000 in 10 months.

>> I mean, I also have uh 10,000 in an IRA that I'm maxing out every month as well.

>> Well, I would I would stop that until we get this mess cleaned up. But if you're going to clean up the mess in one fell swoop, you don't have to stop it. But you can stack cash. You follow me.

Especially if you don't have a car payment that's 35 grand.

>> Yeah. And so my, you know, I'm going to

use up all my money. Yeah. For a hot second.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz a month later, you're going to have $10,000 more. >> And a month later, you're going to have $8,000 more. And a month later, you're going to have You follow me?

>> Gotcha. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're not going to be out of cash for but just for a few days.

>> Well, you still have 11,000.

>> I know you got 11, but I'm saying he's 57's down to 11 and that's causing emotional distress. Lot of heartburn.

Heartburn. Yeah. Right.

>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. So, but the point is it it's it's a temporary situation and it's the best path for you to become wealthy.

>> See, because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income and you don't give it all to car companies and student loan companies. You get to keep it, >> right? >> And that causes wealth building. And that's what I'm going to tell you to do.

Wow. You got lots of time to be smart. Now, this is the Ramsey Show.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kate in Maryland. My daughter is a junior in high school and has no idea of what she wants to do when she graduates. My husband and I love the idea of her owning her own business, but neither my husband nor I have experience in this. We both wish we had made different career decisions that would have given us more independence. Where can we research with her to get a better understanding and vision for this option? Or would you still recommend college versus real world experience?

Okay, I'm going to put myself into this particular situation. say if this was my daughter, what would I do? And uh so because she's a junior, we would begin to identify areas of interest. Um not

come up with a business idea. I think this could be very paralyzing for a youngster. It's paralyzing for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s because we know Dave from the data that 70% of Americans want to be self-employed, but only 6% are. So I'm speaking from data here. So what I would do with my daughter is we would begin to identify

areas of interest. In other words,

people that she wants to help, solutions

she gets excited about, problems she wants to solve, and there's an industry.

If there's a business, there's an industry. And so we want to get broad so that she gets some real interest and begins to see some areas of interest. At that point, we're going to shadow. Uh, I'm going to allow her to go have coffee, lunch with people that are in those industries or maybe run businesses in those industries. Uh, shadow at work if if she can get shadow opportunities.

All of this to begin to to create a field of three or four of her most interesting options. At that point, then we start to have the discussion, is college, is a degree the best decision

or is it getting right into the workforce uh and working in an industry?

Give you an example to help clarify this some more. If this were a young man, and and by the way, it's not limited to young men, but let's say she decides she wants to own a business in the trades, okay? uh that that point. Then I want

her shadowing folks that are working in those trades and getting a realworld

experience, the good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly, everything. And at that point, we determine whether or not she's really interested. And and then the path is going to be to go to work and hustle

and learn on the job. And eventually, you work your way into spinning off on your own and starting your own business. So, uh, that's a hard question to answer in such a short amount of time without back and forth, but that would be the advice that I would give cuz that's what I would do. These young people need to see it, touch it, experience it, smell it. >> Yes. >> And then they can decide.

>> Completely agree. Because Kate, you did

not say she has a this extreme passion

and apparent natural talent and bent

towards X because you did not say that that would have led her towards a business. the people that we've talked to that are 18 or 19 or 21 years old that have had success and they call this show and they are really killing it and we're all kind of a gasast at how >> how far ahead of this curve they are running their own thing. They almost always had a natural gift towards something. Uh technology is

not unusual for a 19-year-old today to be something that they would go, you know, they they've been screwing around writing code, messing around, building apps, and all a sudden they built an app and took off and ran a business. Okay.

Uh or, you know, whatever. That's fine.

I mean, that would be Michael Dell. That would be Bill Gates. Both quit college and um Steve Jobs. All three all three

companies were formed by college dropouts. And so, but they were

super nerds with their eye exactly on what they wanted to do. There was no question. Instead, you're asking a very generic thing. I My husband and I always wish we were in business. So, we wish our daughter would go into business, but none of us have a clue.

>> Yeah. >> That No, don't go in business. Business is too hard. >> That's correct. >> Don't don't don't don't put a 18-year-old, 20-year-old out there with no no education to go into business doing that. No. if she thinks or that

that in talking with her that she has got some entrepreneurial flare and wants to do a business someday maybe in the

future a great you know just get a business degree get a degree in finance a degree in marketing you'll learn accounting you'll learn statistics you'll learn marketing um you'll learn

strategic thought uh I mean you'll get some of these basic things in a good four-year degree that's what I have and I use a lot of of those classes I took 40 years ago every day running Ramsay.

You know, it's a $300 million company.

It's a dad good dad gum good thing I had a couple of accounting classes. Hello.

You know, rather than just trying to figure that out with a high school accounting class. And so, uh, it's a good thing that I, you know, understand marketing at an academic level before I actually get neck deep in it and then try to figure out how it works out here in the real world, too. So, I would do that if she thinks she's going to go that direction. Combined with Ken's advice of really go in there and study, study, get, go visit these places. Quit talking about this stuff in the abstract.

>> Um, >> here's what we know about entrepreneurs.

>> Bus business is very hard.

>> It is. And >> and people that have never started a small business and run one have this romantic view. Yeah. And there's But there's a lot of dirt under the fingernails, boys and girls. I mean, there's a lot it's it's a long hours.

It's the hardest boss you'll ever work for in your life. That guy's a dead gum slave driver. >> Yeah. And to that point, the entrepreneurs that win are driven by deep deep desire to solve a problem

>> and they come up with a solution and that's the business. It's a solution and they're deeply passionate about it.

That's what keeps them going because it is you almost need that magnetic pull or else in it because in air quotes, I always wanted to work for myself.

>> Yeah. You're not going to make it.

>> No. No chance. >> It's too tough. You're going to get your butt run over in the middle of the street, man. I mean, you're just going to be roadkill. And it's just too I mean, because you put up with too much.

You shovel so much manure. It's unbelievable to to There's a pony in there somewhere, but you got to shovel the manure. I mean, it's it's real. And

uh and I'm not complaining and I'm not whining. I wouldn't But I had a call for a certain thing. >> That's correct. >> And I've had two in my life.

I mean, one on real estate and went broke and then one doing this and I could do the real estate tomorrow and still be okay. But obviously, God called us to this right here and I'm happy with that. But yeah, I wouldn't put up with the BS that you Nobody will. That's why we see business people quit all the time.

nothing else has a failed restaurant.

That's why restaurants have the highest failure rate of almost any stinking business category because they think somebody thinks because they can cook or like cooking for their friends that that makes them a restaurant owner. No, you got to hire and fire people all day long. Restaurant has a 325% turnover ratio in a year. Means you have to hire three people to fill that one position during that year.

That That's So you're in the hiring business. You're in the firing business. You're in the food sourcing business. Inventory.

There's all this stuff that goes with running a business. It's not cooking. >> That's right. >> And and that's that it blows a chef's mind and they they go, "Oh god, I wish I'd never Yeah, that's right.

We all wish you'd never." >> But yeah, but that is a great actual example of do I want to run a business that serves food or I do do I just want to cook food? Two very different paths, by the way. Both honorable. But there is a big distinction between the two and that's the key.

>> You know, it's even like when we're talking with entree leaders, these small businesses, and they're getting ready to promote their best salesperson to be sales manager. It's two different skills. >> That's exactly right. >> You're managing sales people is different than making sales.

They're good at selling. They're not good at managing sales people. >> And don't forget, they may not enjoy it. They may enjoy the service. They enjoy the service of the customer. They don't enjoy the service of leading a team of people. Again, >> you lead a bunch of sales people. It's like running a beauty parlor. It's dry.

>> That's right. Two very different job descriptions. >> So, you know, you need to get in there what it is. So, that's it's a great question, Kate. And uh we'll have the team send out u >> I love the student assessment would be great for them, okay? >> Because we've actually got that and that's a young person can take that and get a pretty good idea of what a current snapshot of what a professional job description of purpose would look like for them. And that can be a business.

That's right. I'm very quickly killing that. But make sure you understand that, you know, business is not romantic. This is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Chris is in

Wyoming. Hi, Chris. How are you?

>> Good. Yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I just I just wanted to give you guys a call. I just I mean kind of got

going through some struggles and um with debt and um I got fired from my job on Wednesday and >> Whoa. >> Um so >> that sucks. What happened?

They I they they gave me an evaluation and I I guess I didn't score high enough and I I I think they fired me because of my hearing issues because I was I was born partially deaf and um but I think

they that's part of the reason why they fired me because I couldn't understand things and >> Yeah. You going to speak directly into your phone? Sorry. You got muffled on me there. But you could you had trouble understanding things.

>> What was the job? >> Yeah, I it was I was working at a casino. Um, I was doing surveillance and

um, they just am kind of looking at cameras and answering phones and I think when when I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told and um, they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues, but I I kind of think that's what it was.

>> Well, does the and the reason I'm asking this followup is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward. when they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not. Did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points?

>> Um, yeah, I do. I do agree.

>> Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey. You don't have to do that. It's muffled.

>> Um, yeah. So, um, yeah, I I do agree

that I I was I was having a hard time understanding things that they were the task that they were giving me.

>> Okay. Okay.

And um so you your biggest crisis is

you're unemployed.

>> Yeah. Um, I'm unemployed and um, my wife

can't work cuz uh, she's she got a she

tore her but she tore her femur back when she was in the military and she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long and um, so it's just it's

been hard to trying to take care of of her, myself and our three kids and um,

>> are you aware of are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue.

>> Um I for like 15 20 15 to 20 plus years

I was doing like physical work like warehouse type work cuz it really didn't involve a whole lot of I mean I still had to hear things but it wasn't as bad as you know having to like I didn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that. And >> um so >> I've been trying to get back into that again. It's just and with winter hours coming up it's just kind of been more harder to get into that again. H how did you lose your hearing?

>> Um I was born with I was born with it.

Um it come it was genetic.

>> Okay. Do you have hearing aids?

>> Um yeah I do. Um I I went through the the Wyoming workforce and >> but they're not working. >> They were um they they're working. Um

they they they've been a big help. Um

but even even after I got the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time. Um, so I I try to do

everything the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing.

>> Well, the the casino is a very noisy place and even with hearing aids that can be a problem. Well, I'm I'm worried about your location. It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where you are. Is that what I'm understanding?

>> Yeah. Um cuz I mean I'm I'm in here in

Cheyenne and they usually when winter

starts coming up that's when they kind of a lot of places, you know, cut back hours and because they're fully staffed and it's harder to get into places and

um >> Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys? Just your basic expenses. What do you need?

>> Um I mean my my rent. Um, I mean it it's

my rent, my electric. Um,

I mean I don't have to worry about like gas or anything. >> Give me a a number. Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

>> Uh, and in all honesty, I mean, I I honestly don't know. Um, can't really

figure out a number. Um, it's usually about like I think like 3,000 a month.

That's usually where all my bills are at.

Um because I got two vehicles and then

you know my kids taking care of the expenses for them too and the food and all that stuff. And um >> you have two car payments.

>> Yeah, I have two car payments. I have um I have a a my truck payment which is

$740 and then my car payment's 360.

I don't know what in the world planet you're on that you think you can afford a $700 truck payment.

>> Uh when I was working with Walmart, um I I got fired from them the same year in January. >> Why did you get fired from Walmart?

>> Um because of my attendance because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then my mental health. Um, I uh I

was leaving a lot and I was calling off a lot because of my mental health and I ended up after I got fired I ended up >> What's the nature of your mental health problem?

>> Um, well, when my daughter was born, she

um >> No, your mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem? >> Um, I'm I'm depressed.

>> Okay. Um, all right. And

>> is your wife on military disability?

>> Um, no. She she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years. And

>> are you on any kind are you on any kind of disability?

>> Uh, no I'm not. Um Okay.

>> I I I tried to get on social security and they they they denied me because I I

I finally got the job at the casino and they denied me because uh >> yeah, >> I was um making too much. And so I >> that would that would be true. That would be obvious. Yeah. Okay. So what we've got to do is we got to figure out a career where you can make some basic income and son you got to sell your truck.

A $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity.

It's nuts.

So you got to get rid of the $780 payment. And you guys could go down to one car for that matter. Your wife doesn't work. She's on two canes. I don't think she needs to be driving a lot. So, um, you got and and then you're

going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable. Any good suggestions, Ken?

>> Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because you're going to have to get back into that space. And what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now, you can't accept limitations.

I understand depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire

household is relying on. So yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work, I'm showing up and and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, "Hey, here's what happened to me. I'm going to power through it." I mean, anything and everything right now, two and three jobs, you have got to get enough money that maybe seeing not maybe I'd see a therapist. I I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help because a professional can help you uh with some tools to power through the depression.

And um it's this is desperation time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this. >> So sorry. >> Uh I'm I'm 100% sure we got to get your

income up and I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, uh, you create a sustainable situation mathematically and that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got. So

>> keep it up, dude. Keep pushing. Keep fighting. You can do it.

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Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose and his new work um discovering or

finding the work you're wired to do, which comes with the uh the Get Clear

assessment to help you figure out what your strengths are and where you need to head with your whole career and money-making endeavors. It's a great thing. It's just hit a bunch of bunch of uh uh bestseller things this week, as a matter of fact. Very cool. Hey, the average interest rate for a 15-year mortgage dropped from 6 to 5.6 this

week. Uh, and the average this week, I'm

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So, um, almost 20 some odd months now

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$4,000 a year a year is what it would save you. So yeah, if you're financially ready, if you're out of debt, you have your down payment ready and you have your emergency fund in place. We're huge on the real estate market and this is the time to do it. If it's also a great time to sell because there's a shortage of inventory, so it's kind of a weird market in that way, but you need a good strong real estate agent in your corner that knows what the flip they're doing.

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Open phones at825-5225.

Nicole is in Jacksonville. Hi Nicole.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So, um me and my husband are about to bring a baby into the world in January next year. And >> congratulations.

>> Thank you. He's had this credit card um with his mom um that he's been having

for like the past basically year and a half. But um she basically has like

joint ownership of his like account and stuff like that because he's in the military. So, like when he first um got

in, he was like, "Oh, well, you're going to oversee everything. Um just make sure like my bills are paid and stuff like that." But she opened up a credit card and she's ran up like $14,000 since

then. And um every time I try to talk to

him about it, like, hey, like what's going on with this? Like um you know, is

she gonna take care of it now that we're bringing a baby into the world? I'm concerned. And then like every time she'll ask him about it, like she completely like gets angry or upset and cries because she has lupus and she has

like a lot of medical bills too. So

we're not really sure how to >> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married for a year and a half. >> Mhm. Okay. And what does he make? What

does he make and what do you make?

Um, he makes like 55,000 a year.

>> And me, I'm a student, so I'm still in school and everything, so I work part-time. >> How old are you? How old are you, too?

>> I'm 22 and he's 23.

>> Okay. >> So, yeah.

>> Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Stop. You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem.

Okay? So hubby has got to decide now

that he there's a new woman in his life that's not his mother.

When you the the old in the old days, people would say things like uh when you get married, you leave your parents and

cleave to your spouse. Leave and cleave, we called it. Okay? And there's a boundary drawn. There's a new household has been established a year and a half ago and now it has a baby entering it. Okay. And we're not going to blame any of this on the baby. We're going to blame all of this on your husband. The day you all got married, it was his job as a man to

separate all of his accounts from his

mother.

This is very boyish, not manly behavior.

>> Yes. >> That he's engaging in. And so, uh, if

you, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to sit down very calmly and I don't care if his mom cries. I'm sorry. And I don't

care. I'm sorry she has lupus. But the reason she's crying is cuz she's ashamed.

And because it works on her little boy.

So, we're going to have to help your husband run down to Walmart and pick up a backbone. They're on aisle three.

And then he's going to walk in there very calmly and gently and say, "Mom, now that I'm married and I have my own family, we're not going to have any more joint accounts. So, everything is being closed today, and you're going to reopen your own accounts, Mom. And you need to pay this $14,000 you ran up on this credit card."

>> Okay? >> And if she doesn't, you'll have to because it's got your husband's name on it. This is a mistake that he has made

and it may cost him and you $14,000

because I got a feeling this woman's not going to pay this. Don't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you're not to be involved at all. You'll become the wicked You'll become the wicked daughter-in-law.

>> It'll be all your fault because this woman is a travel agent for guilt trips.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. every time I like try to like talk to her about it. >> Nope. Nope. Nope. No. Don't you ever say a word to her about this again.

>> But your husband, he needs to throw his shoulders back and become a man

>> today. Today.

This is weak >> and fearful behavior. He needs to become courageous, bold, gentle with his mom.

There's no reason to be mean to her.

He's the one entered into this arrangement. But it does need to be very thorough and complete immediately.

It's absurd that a man that is married

and has a baby on the way has joint accounts with his mommy. That's ridiculous.

Okay, you can play this back for him if you want.

>> He needs to square I will.

>> Yeah, he needs to square his shoulders and walk in there. I I don't want him to be unkind to his mom, but it was his duty the week before you got married to

separate everything.

When my kids were getting married, we sat down two weeks before I transferred every single mutual fund that was theirs, every single checking account or piece of savings that was theirs completely out of our name. And if they went and did something stupid with it the next day, that's on them because they're now what's known as grownup adults.

And so I'm it's not my job anymore to manage them. They they are now free agents. They're grown people. And you don't you don't even have to get married to do that. But that happened to be the when we made sure that everything was final because I did not want to be interfering with my in-law my my

daughters-in-law sons-in-law just like Nicole situation.

This is happening more and more. >> Yeah. I the the emotional umbilical cord

needs to be cut and this is the reason why is because the lupus she's my mom.

She did this. She's done that. And you

cannot think rationally when you are thinking emotionally. You cannot have a rational thought at the same time that you have an emotional thought. And this tie together, he's never going to act rational until the clearcut has happened. And I really would recommend that he watch this so that he realizes you're not the bad person. And and you >> don't be pissed at somebody be pissed at me. It's like a spiritual gift I have.

I'm fine with that. >> Yeah. Cut the cord, man. >> There's entire Reddit pages devoted to doing that.

So you can and comment sections of everything. So, >> by the way, this is only going to get worse. >> I want the young man to hear Every day this goes on. This every day this goes on.

And and we're not even going to blame this on the baby. >> Oh, no. >> Not the baby. This is something should have been done before there was a baby.

>> Well, I tell you, it's the big baby. I'm blaming it on the big baby. Not the baby in the womb. The baby who has yet to mature.

>> Yeah. >> Uh and by the way, mom enabled this. So, there's enough blame to go. >> She didn't enable it.

She wanted it. She likes this.

>> He was a mama's boy to go to to military and say, "Mom, pay my bills." >> Yep. Yep. >> I'm not blaming that all on him. Yep.

>> We got to let these kids fly, folks.

Kick them out of the nest. That's what the birds do. >> Mhm. Yeah. That's um

>> This is a national problem to your point. We're seeing >> it's a real problem. It's a real problem. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Danell is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Danell. How are you?

I'm good, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a little dilemma that we're trying to figure out what we need to do.

I have a 2012 Hyundai Elantre and it's

got over 2,000 200,000 miles on it. Um,

in around the end of October, I was backing up out of a parking spot and a guy behind me backed into my car and

it didn't ruin my car, so I couldn't drive it, but his insurance totaled my

car and great.

>> So now, yeah, >> I mean, you're driving a hooptie and you're getting a check.

>> Yeah, I Yeah, I can get a check for it for sure. They will I can get 37.45 45 and keep it and they'll I'll have to get a salvage title. >> No. >> Or they'll pay me 4538.

>> No, you take the full pay, give them the car, go get you a car.

>> Okay. >> Is if the car was in good shape if the car was in good shape and it's 200,000 mi 2012 Elantre. What's it actually worth? Have you looked it up?

>> Yeah, it's it's probably under five.

>> Well, that's what they're giving you is under five.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I want you to make sure that what they're giving you is the actual value of the car.

>> Well, the 45 is what they would give me and that's what I >> No, honey. They're going to give you the value of the car. That's the law.

>> Okay. >> They may not have understood that yet.

You may have to help them with that.

>> Yeah. >> But they're supposed to give you the value of the car. The guy the guy tore your car up. >> So, um, didn't take much to total this car, but it's okay. Cool. I'm glad. So, I I want you guys uh you said we are you married? >> Uh-huh. >> Okay. You guys jump on the computer before you accept the offer and find out from Kelly Blue Book what the pro what the uh retail value of that car is and

enter it with 200,000 mi, no damage, and

um you know, your the attributes of that car, the the accessories it has, and so forth. And um and then look on stuff like uh trader.com and find some that are for sale that look similar in mileage. And if you find out that car is worth 5200, you call this insurance company up and say, "Uh, you need to pay me 5200." And here's the appraisal from Kelly Blue Book and here's three cars on to on trader.com that look the same. And

they they all these things say 5200, not 4,500. And the guy will go, "Okay,

>> all right. Who's the insurance company?

>> Bear River Mutual.

>> What?

>> Say it again. >> They're the ones that >> Say it again. >> River. >> Bear River. >> That's the actual insurance company, >> not they wrote the policy.

>> Do what? >> Bear River Mutual. Okay. I just don't know that one. Okay. >> All right. Well, I cuz sometimes I know the reputation. Like if it's State Farm, you can pretty much sure be assured they're trying to screw you.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. That's it's like their modus operendi. Okay, I've been hit by state farm people twice and it's been a problem both times.

Okay, they're just a pain in the butt.

>> And see, it cost it cost them a lot cuz I just said that. So, um but anyway, the

uh u anyway. So, yeah, just just verify that the actual cost value of the car.

I'm not trying to rip them off. I want them to pay you what you're due. That's all. >> Yeah, >> it's an honest transaction >> with a ding in it. >> I'm sorry. I mean, with the ding in the car, is that >> No, darling. There wasn't a ding in the car before he hit it.

>> Oh, okay. >> Before he hit it, what was the car worth? >> Yeah. Okay. All right. >> Cuz that's what they owe you. That's the market value of the car because you got to take the cash and go buy that exact car on trader.com from somebody else.

That's what you're going to have to pay for it.

>> Yeah. >> That's what they should give you.

>> They should replace your car.

>> No, you don't keep your car.

Okay. My other question for you then is >> this car was almost dead before this guy put a bullet in it. Let it die.

>> Yeah, it's true. It's true. Okay.

>> So, I have I have listened to you for years and I just get sick to my stomach

now thinking about even taking a loan out on a vehicle. >> Well, don't. >> We need $5,000 money put aside.

>> Pardon? >> Buy a $5,000 car.

>> Okay. >> You'll have $5,000.

You were driving a $5,000 car before this happened.

>> True. >> So, it was doing it was perfectly good with your life >> or good enough for now. How much money do you have set aside? And is that earmarked for something else or was it for a car replacement?

>> It's It's to go towards a car replacement. About$7,000.

>> 7,000. So then you >> That That's your car fund.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, then you can buy a $12,000 car. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. All right. I just My husband wants me to have a car that he knows we can depend on. And he's like, >> "Man, wait. Where was this husband before you got hit in the parking lot?" >> He was sitting next to me. >> I know. I know. But you see what I'm saying? He wasn't He wasn't whining about you having something that was dependable when you were driving this $5,000 Hooptie.

>> You were saving up to get out of the Hoopti. Now you got You sold the Hooptie. You just sold it to an insurance company.

>> Yep. You're right. >> Lot of $12,000 cars that you can rely on. Excellent vehicles for 12 grand.

>> Excellent. >> A car that'll do any It'll do double back flips. You can get great cars for 12 grand.

>> Yes. >> The best value in the market is 10 to 15,000. It's the best buy in the car market. You get the most bang for your buck >> and uh it's a great You can get a great vehicle for that that'll last you for a long time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

There's no reason for you to go in debt, hunt. It's just it was an event. Thank god nobody was hurt. It's a little parking lot ding and it's just sad that your car the parking lot ding. I never heard anybody get total in the park in the Kroger parking lot, but there you go. So, bump you're totaled.

>> Yeah. I mean that I was going to say that was quite a incident.

He must have been on his way to the game with the wings and the chips and salsa.

He was in a something going on. Amber's in Spokane. Amber, welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> Thank you. So, I just have a quick question, actually two-part question.

Um, I have an 18-year-old son. He's

still in high school. He will be 19 next

year, graduating, and

>> he is planning on opening his own business. >> Doing what? >> With his landscaping, with his own

money. He's not going to >> He's very smart with money.

>> He doesn't have any debt. He won't get a credit card. >> He only uses what he has.

>> Mhm. But I was trying to explain to him the other day that he can do it with a zero credit

score. And he and I I am also confused a

little bit too. But I know it's possible. So he doesn't want to take out any loans. He's been >> He doesn't need a credit score.

>> So >> why do you need a credit score?

I think he's more worried about if something comes up where he has to

>> borrow money. >> Borrow borrow to Yeah. If he has to get

a bigger machine or >> Well, that already is going to come up.

>> 100% of the people that buy machines buy too many of them.

>> Well, he has a plan to buy used >> and cash and if something comes up, he'll buy used and cash. He does not need a credit score.

Do not use debt as your back stop in

case of emergencies in business because you will live in debt the rest of your life because a 100% of there's three rules in business. It takes twice as long as you think. It costs twice as much as you think and you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business. >> The nice thing is is that he understands all three of those rules and he >> then he doesn't need a credit score.

>> Okay. The other question is I have is

how I've been trying to get him to listen to your show or or read your book or and

he's 18. I'll give him that because he's

just he's still in that mentality stage where he's 18. And is there something

I don't want to push too hard so that he doesn't do it all together, but is there I know you have a have books and programs and stuff like that, but I I've already bought those and he he wasn't interested in it. Is it something that may come along later on when he's going through? I guess >> is this >> I mean it okay the only thing I can tell you is the only only good I've ever been able to do with my kids once they turned 18 and beyond was I tried try my best to not use my dad voice cuz once I do they quit listening.

because I am that person that has no power once they're 18. So you've been using your mom voice. You need to listen to Dave. That won't work. He won't. who turned that off immediately. Use your friend voice and maybe maybe he'll pick it up. Probably not, but maybe he will.

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William is with us in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, William. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. I'm great. Thanks for uh taking my call. I appreciate Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I'm in the military. Um, and I just got married two months ago.

Congratulations. You all about four months ago. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I discovered you guys four months ago. Life has been excellent. Um, so

we're in the process of moving and we're paying off my wife's student loan debt.

It's about $28,000.

Um, and we figure out we're going to be moving to Hawaii in March. um looking at

housing prices over there, it's going to be pretty insane at least to do like first month's rent, security deposit, everything like that. So, I'm looking at your advice on how to approach that, taking a pause at baby step two and how to move forward there.

>> It's not really a pause on baby step two. just a pause on the whole thing because you've got a uh you know

something staring you're staring

you know you're staring at this thing in front of you and you've got to deal with it right and so you know what I would do is put a detailed number on the March move stop everything and pile up that number cuz it's coming >> it's not if it's just >> oh yeah >> it's not there's no question about the probability of it >> and so and then when you've got that number then push play. Set that number to the side, push play, and then start working it again.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, that that's exactly how you do it.

So >> So which branch are you in?

>> I'm in the Navy. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Thank you for your service, sir. We appreciate you guys. And >> well, I appreciate you guys. >> And how old are you two?

>> Um 28. My wife is 26.

>> Perfect. Yeah. Okay. Have you been through Financial Peace University yet?

>> Uh no, sir. We've uh we've been just kind of listening to the show and and making a go at it. So, >> it's been a little >> We're going to give that to you as a belated wedding gift.

>> Two months into my wedding, I wish two months into my marriage, I wish somebody had shown me this stuff. My life would have been completely different in a good way. So, yeah. And I got a pretty good life. But yeah, so anyway, hang on.

Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University because Hawaii is expensive.

Yeah. you need to and that's the truth.

Dave, I got to ask a quick question because this is I'm curious to know your take on this. If I was in this situation, now he's in the military, so he may not be able to do anything outside of his military service, but if his wife is not working outside of the home or even if she is, I'm the kind of guy that if I were in that position in the baby steps, certainly baby step two, and I had an expense like that that was coming and we knew it was going to be a chunk. So, let's just say it was I'll make this up for example purpose.

I had to come up with $5,000 for something in March.

and fund that 5,000 above and beyond what I'm doing out of my normal budget towards the baby steps.

Do you do you does that bother you? Is it >> that's an okay thing. The the thing is it works exactly the same way if you just push stop. >> That's true. >> And then go crazy and pile it up that much. >> But I'm the guy that hates losing the progress. put put you know it uh but if

you pile it up twice as fast >> right >> because you're not staying in play mode.

You push pause then then you boom you're you're back at it and mathematically you'll end up in about the same place.

>> And um but you're right it does it does light a fire under you to get it done quick. >> Jack is in Los Angeles. Hey Jack, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

My fiance and I are both 25 years old.

We're getting married uh two months from now and we're of course looking to combine finances.

Not sure the best way to go about it on a couple fronts. One, should we be waiting uh until we're married. Uh two,

we both do have credit cards. We both as of last month are debtree, but we're wondering should we be keeping them? Uh

should we get rid of them? We're worried about, you know, cancing them impacting our credit scores as we look to buy a house. So, hoping to get your advice on all of that.

>> Okay. Um, you don't combine finances

until you're married.

>> Okay. >> And after you're married, then yes, you combine them because the preacher will say, "And now you are one." And that's

what that means. Until then, you've got all kinds of issues when you combine things that can happen. um if if something terrible happened before the wedding, you get you get yourself into a mess. So, we just wait until then. As

far as keeping your credit cards open,

um the best thing I know to do is cut them up and close everything and have zero balances. And if you have no active accounts going, it takes about 6 months for your

credit score to just disappear. you what you don't want is a medium credit score.

You you either want a very high one or a

no credit score when you're going for a mortgage. No credit score set you up for manual underwriting with someone like Church Hill Mortgage uh person that you know the team that we've endorsed for mortgages for almost 30 years now and

and they can help you do a manual underwriting with zero credit score. Uh, but you don't want you don't want to be in no man's land in the middle. And that's what'll happen if you keep a bunch of stuff open with zero balances because the the FICO is algorithm is built to where it wants you to be in debt to drive an 800 credit score. You have to get in debt and stay in debt and pay

it regularly. I pay my credit cards off

every month or I don't use them at all and they're open will damage your credit score. So will closing them will damage

your credit score. But closing them is the path to get to zero. And that's where I would recommend you go is to zero. And it's okay to not buy a house immediately. By the way, it's going to take about 6 months for this to happen.

So 6 month 6 months from the time you're married, you both close all accounts.

You have zero balances, zero activity of any kind on anything that's reporting to FICO, you will disappear. You'll fall off the grid, which is what you're trying to do here. And um you know

that's the goal and we recommend in general young couples getting married that they wait a year to buy a house. It takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

You got to get to know each other. Okay?

And you you know you you've been married 20 minutes. You're going to buy a different house then you will when you've been married 20 months. Um it's a different it's a different property you're going to sign up for. And so it just, you know, just take your time. You got you got the rest of your life. You're going to be okay. Uh I don't want you to take 10 years, but you you can take a few months. And and during that time, you have the opportunity for the credit score to go away.

>> Yeah. You know, I'm thinking back to when Stacey and I got married and and uh this whole question and we we were walking through premarital counseling.

Both of our dads were pastors and so they were, you know, really driving home the point that you made, keep everything separate, separate, of course, but it was us trying to clean everything up.

and Stacy had some debt and we worked really hard um to help her and she she

went after it and to enter into marriage with and we had a little debt uh I had a little bit of student loans left and she had a little bit left and then we knocked them out in that first couple years but it was such a big deal for us

to in that first 12 months just learn how each other handled money >> you know what I mean how you handle life >> there's that too but it's like to make a big purchase decision like that and strap yourself into a a mortgage like that without kind of, as you said, experiencing marriage and the way we viewed money. That first 12 months for us was really eye opening and we had to learn how to get on the same page.

>> Yeah, it was for my wife Sharon. She realized she'd made a huge mistake.

>> Well, Stacy as well. Poor woman.

They have the patience of Joe. >> Thought she married Sir Galahad. Turns out it was Goober, >> right? >> I resemble that.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio with Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author and host of The Front Row Seat as my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ryan is in Nashville. Hey Ryan, how are you?

>> Good. Dave, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um had a question about um retirement and 401ks. Um, I am new into

a Roth IRA. I'll be 50 next year and I

can only contribute so much to that. And on my wife's 401k, we're maxing out what

she can do um, a year on that. And then

there's a rollover IRA from previous employment um, that we have. So, we've got the three things working for us, but I can only contribute, you know, that just that 7,000 a year. And I I would

just like to know what you think other ways for me to try to make my money work

for me um down the road so I can have more retirement. >> Yeah, you can bump it to 8,000 at 50 and you can also do a spousal Roth for your wife as well. Are you doing both of those?

>> So we can do that if she has a 401k plus

she has a rollover IRA.

>> Yes. >> And what's that called? I'm sorry. >> Just a Roth IRA. She can just do a Roth.

She can do one, too. >> She can do a Roth. >> Yep. Even if she's not working, she could do one, but she's working in this case. So, make sure is her 401k a Roth.

>> Uh, no, I don't believe. Well, yes, it is. It is. Okay. All right. Cuz the if they match, the portion they match is not Roth, but make sure it's not traditional. Is the roll over Roth? Is a

rollover IRA, has it been converted to Roth?

>> I don't think it's been converted. It's just a rollover. >> Okay. If you convert it, it'll make the taxes on the amount come due. What's the amount in there?

The amount on the rollover currently is probably about 75.

>> Okay. So, you would have about 15 or $20,000 in taxes, probably 15. Um, if

you get So, if you got an extra 15 to invest in retirement, I would roll that to a Roth and pay that 15 in taxes and call that investing. Here's why. Because from this point forward, it will grow completely tax-free.

>> Okay? So that paying those taxes now is like investing into a into a retirement.

So if you're looking for more money to throw at something, the first thing is you bump them to eight. You do a spousal spousal. Make sure her 401k is Roth if

it's not already. And then take that roll over and you know talk to your tax person, figure out what your taxes are going to be before you do it. Make sure you've got that much in extra cash to pay your tax bill next year when the April rolls around because you're going to have an extra whatever it is, 15 grand or so. um on that and then roll

that 75 because that 75 in seven years will be 150 and in seven more years will be 300 and in seven more years will be 600 and all of that will be taxfree if

it's Roth. It won't be the way it is now. It's going to grow and all of it be taxable at ordinary income. So you do want to move that at some point. But if

you're looking for extra ways to put money towards retirement, that's the ways you can do it. Matt's in Tennessee.

Hey Matt, how are you?

>> I'm doing great guys. I'm so excited to be on the show. Thanks for taking my call. >> My pleasure. How can we help?

>> Well, my wife and I have been weighing the decision of making her a stay-at-home mom, and I just want to

make sure we're not letting emotion

blind us from making a uh a bad decision

financially. >> Cool. Good for you. How many babies you got? Uh, we have two. Uh, they're both under three. >> Awesome. You got your hands full.

>> Never a quiet moment at your house. Yes.

Okay. So, um, >> yeah, that's great. Um, I just kept the grandbabies last week that Sharon and I did that are that age. And I know what I'm talking about for just a moment there, but I can hand them back when they're broke. You can't. So, um, this one's got something wrong with it. You don't need to work on this one. Yeah. But the, uh, anyway, the, uh, what does she make?

Um, she makes 95 gross. And >> what do you make?

>> I make um I'll be on track to make uh

over 150. >> Okay, cool. Um, if you want to be really

really sure, uh, an easy way to do it would be just live on your check for 3 months and bank hers.

>> Yes, sir. We've we've been doing that.

>> Oh, you have? Okay. I mean, minus dayare. If you got dayare, you could take daycare out of hers, but because you won't have that, >> but if you just practice. So, you've already you've already proven to yourself you can do this,

>> I guess. So, but um I mean, I guess we're just a little nervous to take that leap of faith. Um you know, >> it's not a leap of faith. You've proven it.

It's a step. True. >> It's a step. It's not a leap.

>> Yes, sir. >> How much do you A leap is I have no idea and I've never even looked at the math. That's a leap.

>> This is true. >> Yeah. So, you're done great, man. So, what does she do for a living?

>> Uh, she's a nurse auditor for Humanana.

>> Is she a nurse by trade?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. I think Ken and I would both recommend that she do enough of something to keep her searchs alive while she's at home. >> Yeah. >> We we've both talked about that as well.

We want to keep her um her license up to date. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And you'll be amazed at what she could pick up as just little side things here or there that make a lot of money. >> She's got like the perfect career to do

what you're talking about doing.

>> I couldn't agree more. >> I mean, she could pick up if y'all got in a pinch or something, she could pick up weekends in the in the ER and make almost as much she's making now.

>> This is true. >> Be very uncomfortable. And I'm not recommending doing that. And you don't have to because you've already proven we can live on your income. So yeah, just do it, man. Do it. This is what the This is you. This is why you manage money, to get to live the life you want to live, and you guys want her to be home, and she's doing nothing wrong and everything right by doing that.

>> Yeah. My my question is is is Dave was walking you through this, you just you still seemed unsure. Is that because you're worried about some big giant expense coming out of nowhere from the giant in the sky, or you are too tight

on just your income?

No, that's a good question. We're We're not too tight on my income. Um, what

makes me nervous, Ken, is I started this

job in June. Um, and it's a phenomenal

job. It it it it provides very well.

It's it's given us a great financial bump. Um, I guess it just makes me nervous to um solely rely on on my job

having been being in it for such a short period of time. >> Yeah. What do you do?

>> I'm in medical sales.

>> Oh, dude. >> Yeah. >> You land another You can land You can land backwards on your head and make 150 in that in the next job.

>> If these people lose their minds, you can get another job doing this. Once you've done medical sales, you're so qualified, it's unbelievable. You both have selected excellent careers.

You'll be making 250 in three years, dude.

>> Yes, sir. Uh if everything goes well and I'm and I stay on plan, I should I should track to make over 200.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, the good thing comes like a decision like this is you're going to be extra motivated. And I I appreciate you sharing the fear and I I didn't need to know. I wanted you to hear yourself say it. And so what you need to do now is go, okay, if this makes me a little nervous, is there any evidence that it should make me nervous? And in this case, the answer is no. And then to Dave's point, uh you can crush it, man.

So go crush it. And here's the other thing. You guys can decide, okay, we're going to stack up a little extra money.

Oh, just a little rest easy money. Now, we're not saying you have to do that, but you can to kind of ease yourself into this. You guys get to decide how and when you make this transition.

>> And everything goes sideways.

>> She she walks down there and picks up a nursing job. >> I mean, if you lost your job, she picks up a nursing job. Y'all can eat. It's okay. It's not It's not like it's permanent. You keep those searchs, though. Keep keep everything up to date.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. He's the number one bestselling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Networks. And one of his best-selling books is Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's his latest bestseller. Uh it included in it

is the uh Get Clear Career Assessment

that we've sold almost 100,000 of and it goes with the book for free. So, not only do you get the assessment, you get the book to teach you how to read the assessment and what to take away from it. So, be sure and pick that up at ramseyolutions.com.

Jack is in New York. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Well, thank you very much, Dave. How are you today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I'm I'm at the age now uh mid50s

um to where you want to get to be conservative with your investments.

However, uh for retirement, however, I

don't have a retirement because of life choices that I've had to make throughout the years. So now that I'm finally in a financial position to where I can start making investments, I'm afraid to make liberal investments to make money to actually have a retirement because I'm at that age to be conservative. So I really don't know what to do. And I I'm >> Well, let me help you with this. You're not at the age to be conservative. I don't know who told you that, but they were wrong.

>> Well, I don't have that many years left to live. You have plenty of time. You're only 50.

>> Okay. >> I'm not I'm not conservatively investing. And I'm 63.

So, I'm investing in good growth stock mutual funds that are growing like a weed. And you need to be. You're broke.

>> That's Well, I'm not broke, but I have no retirement whatsoever. >> Well, that I mean, what do how much do you have? How much money do you have?

Uh, I got about 20k in savings.

>> Okay. Well, you're broke.

I mean, forif for 50 years old going into retirement, that would scare the crap out of me. You you need like 250,

right? Moving on. And so, I'm not trying to scare you. I don't want you to panic, but you do need to get with it.

>> Um, as you said, and you recognize that, that's why you called. So, um, what I would do is this. I I it the thing I have figured out is there's two things that we uh are afraid of and fear is a

positive thing in these situations.

Number one thing we're afraid of is something we don't understand.

So the first time you sat behind the wheel of a car, I distinctly remember I was 12 and dad said, "Move the car around back." Um I left no gravel in the

driveway. No one told me you weren't supposed to press down on the accelerator all the way to the floor.

And so, um, I didn't cuz I didn't know what I was doing. So, driving a car, I didn't know how to do it. I was afraid and I was really afraid after I screwed it up, right? Uh, but now we all have been driving cars for decades and we drive and don't think anything about it.

It's like muscle memory. So, you learn how to do the thing and you're no longer afraid of it. The second thing you're afraid of is something that will legitimately hurt you. standing in the middle of the interstate, you should be afraid an 18-wheeler is going to turn you into a bug, right? And so, yeah,

that's a, you know, a bear is standing in front of you, you should be afraid.

That's a good thing. But the other is just you're afraid because you don't know how. And that's the investing thing. That's wisdom, but it's something that can be overcome.

I don't want to overcome my fear of bears. They will eat you. >> But I do want to overcome my fear of things I don't understand that can help me. Uh, and the fear goes away with knowledge.

So, sit down with a good Smart Investor pro, click that at Ramsey Solutions, and let them let the guys that we recommend begin to teach you and gradually start to understand.

increase you you'll easily increase the amount of money you start pouring into retirement type investments and you won't have to worry about the whole idea of conservative versus whatever bull crap something you read on the internet.

Right. >> Yeah. >> No, I I I completely understand that.

That's absolutely true. Uh >> Ken, >> yeah, I was just going to echo that that right now you have no idea what you don't know and and that it just paralyzes you. And so I think the quicker you can get sitted seated with Smart Veester pros, interview several, figure out the one that you've got the best chemistry with, there's that teacher relationship going on and uh you can make up some ground pretty quick, but you've got to be aggressive. And I and I would say Dave, beyond just the mindset of aggressive, I'd be doing some things if I were him to make some extra money and try to catch up.

Where can I make an additional 10 grand, an additional 15 to 25?

When you begin to see that momentum, by the way, that uh that gets really really exciting and you start doing more of that. A lot of people think that they got to have a side hustle just to pay off debt uh and or just pay the bills.

In this case, when someone is that age, to the extent that you can do some extra work and leverage your skill and experience to pour more money on top of the little fire, the bigger that fire gets, I would that would be a direct challenge in this situation for him.

>> That's very good. And that reminds me, you know, when when they're walking around out there in the world, people say these sayings that are just stupid,

right? >> You know, here's one of them. What you don't know won't hurt you.

What you don't know will kill you.

>> Yeah, >> that's a dumb butt saying.

>> You know, lack of knowledge will knock you out, man. >> I mean, it's that's a rid, you know, like you can just stick your head in the sand. And I'm not talking about Jack here. I'm just saying in general. But, uh, yeah, it's a big deal to know new things all the time. Angela's with us in Knoxville. Hi, Angela. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing all right. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Awesome.

Um, so today is actually my birthday.

>> Happy birthday.

>> Thank you. >> How old are you? >> I have like an option. Uh, 42.

>> Oh, okay. Just a pup.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I actually met you in Orlando a couple years ago, in fact, at one of your events. Um, so I'm trying to get back on track, Dave. I never did the uh the baby steps. I purchased FPU at

that event. Never did anything with it like a dummy. And so basically I'm in

$30,000 of debt. Uh about 18 of that is

my car and another seven in credit card

debt and I owe five to a family member.

And so my question is I'm trying to

figure out the best way to go about once I get to baby step two because I'm going to be finishing baby step one next month

and then in August I'm going to start tackling the debt. My car has about

250,000 miles and I use my car right now

to make a living. And so my concern is if I start tackling the smaller debts first and then my car breaks down and the transmission goes out or something and I can't fix it and I you know I I

don't know if I should be saving more in my step one for that or that's kind of where I'm stuck and I just wanted your input. >> You owe $18,000 on it.

Yeah, I I had a paid for 4ERunner a few

years ago and then I started a new job.

>> You owe $18,000 on a car you have 250,000 miles on?

>> Yeah, cuz I was a courier. I I I ran the miles up on that thing. I was a courier for uh the last two, three years since I

bought the car. I just racked it up.

>> Okay. Uh what kind of car is it?

>> It's a 19 Dodge Charger.

>> Okay. >> A six-cylinder. It's a cheaper one.

Yeah. Okay. All right.

Okay. Uh, no, I mean, we're worrying about something that hasn't happened yet. It's it's a reasonable thing to worry about because those things may occur. But I'm not going to change the game plan here. I'm going to um, you know, if you have a problem, you may have to stop your baby steps and address the problem. But until you do, you were

already broke before you started this, and now you're just running broke trying to do actually do some good and climb out, right?

Yeah. >> I mean, so yeah, cut up your credit cards and let's start attacking them with a vengeance and work as many hours as you can and as Ken says, always, you know, get an extra job. Let's do six things and and uh do that written budget

in detail and live on nothing and work all the time and let's begin to get this cleaned up because this is a scary place to be for you.

>> It definitely is. I'm actually I had I moved to Knoxville from Florida back in just just this last December and I had a pretty decent job. Didn't pay too great, but it was it was all right. It was my first job since I moved here. I got laid off like after 3 months. They just didn't need me anymore. And so I've been door dashing like 72 hours a week ever since. And I have another another job

>> um that I started, but they're just trickling me in with work. It's not I'm not full-time with it yet. Once I do, that should be about 72 a year.

>> Well, that'd be huge. That changes everything, Ken. >> Yeah. I'd love to see her really hustle through this quickly cuz that car is going to be a problem pretty soon.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's But I don't want to stop doing it in L if something hadn't happened yet. >> I'd let that be that extra motivator.

>> Yeah. Exactly. This is the Ramsey Show.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

Have y'all noticed that real estate is weird right now?

It's weird out there. I mean, it's str.

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Amit is with us in Greensboro, North

Carolina. Hi Amit. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, uh I long story here, but I was uh my my background and technical background is engineering and science. I did that for a few years. I went to school for it and everything, but loved basketball. Ended up switching careers and I ended up coaching basketball first at the collegiate level, division one, uh, and then into the NBA for the last two years.

Uh, the NBA is moving more and more towards hiring players. Uh, even with 10 years experience in in coaching at those levels, I'm having a hard time finding jobs that are paying me enough to to get by. I'm married.

So, financially, we're okay. We have no debt, nothing. Uh, homes paid off, cars are paid off, so we're good there. But, I'm thinking now of transitioning into a different career. I have no idea what to do. And I've been so out of touch with what my degrees are in that I don't know if I could go back or if anybody would take it, you know, bring me back there.

If that makes sense. >> It does make sense, but I want you to know that that's your fear and doubt that's clouding your judgment. and just somebody who's completely objective. A former division one basketball coach, a former NBA coach is a highly attractive

bio and resume. Uh especially if you have some skill set that will apply to what you're going for. Um just I'm just

interested what's your favorite part of coaching?

>> To me, it's about the relationships and the people I interact with every single day. Yeah. whether it's players or other coaches or executives, whatever, administrators, whatever it may be, it's it's a very people and relationship driven business. And that to me is why I got into it in the first place.

I know the salaries are crazy right now, especially in the NBA, but I never was about it for the money.

>> Did you play Did you play college basketball at any level? >> Did not. Did not. And that's that's the crazy part. So, I'm 5'10. I'm Indian and

there are not a lot of people that look like me that do this. >> Right. Okay. You actually led me right into my question and you're making my case for me. Um, you aren't in that

position because of your X and O's knowledge and being a guru, a guy who put up 25 points a game. You're not in that role and you haven't gotten into that role based on that. Is that true or false? I my my my my success is all from work

and relationships. That's it. I don't have the 15ear NBA career that some of these guys. >> Exactly. And you have managed to get to the highest level of a sport. The NBA

as a 5'10 Indian. I mean, you really are an absolute freak in a good way. Okay.

And it's all based on your skill set of connecting with others. Can I just tell you something? And Dave can chime in here. He's a guy that uh is the founder and active CEO of a company of over a thousand people and he hosts the one of the largest most influential leadership podcast in the world. We talk about leadership all the time. America needs

leaders. I'm paying attention to this stuff every day. And and companies need people who can lead people, who know how to connect with people, who know how to communicate with people, who know how to instruct people, who know how to encourage people. A meet, you got an

incredible resume. Oh, and an engineering degree. So, if I'm you, I'm going I'm going to start with let me take that degree of engineering and I'm going to look at the engineering field. I'm not going to limit myself to engineering, but I'm going to start there because I got the degree. And then I'm going to I'm going to start working my connections. By the way, I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, which for a guy like you who's a learner, it's going to give you the absolute formula, the five people

you need to be around that will help you get where you want to go. And by the way, you have an unbelievable network.

And so all those coaches who know business guys, your college connections with all these business guys who used to donate money big time, they were hanging around those D1 programs. U those are

your connections and you go, "Look, I got an engineering degree. I can get in the engineering field and lead people today. I may not be the most talented engineer, which by the way, am tell me if I'm right or wrong. The guys and gals

that are leading teams of engineers are rarely the most talented engineer. True or false? >> I want to know. I've been I've been removed from it for so long that I that I don't remember. >> All right, I'll tell you the answer. The answer is leading engineers. You don't

have to be the smartest Dave, the most talented engineer. You just got to know how to lead people. And this guy, he's bonafide. That's my take.

and he's he's going for management and leadership positions across the spectrum of the business world. I think he can go just about anywhere because it's not about the trade and it's not about the industry. It's about his ability to come in and bring a team together. That's my that's my two cents on that one.

>> Exactly. Right. The you know what we teach when we're teaching entree leadership to business people is what happens a lot of times as small businesses people become accidental Yeah. >> entrepreneurs.

40 people and 10 trucks.

>> That's right. >> Running around. Now I'm no longer Now I'm no longer a heating and air technician. Now I'm a leader. >> That's right. >> And leading and running a business is a different skill set than fixing your air conditioner. >> And leading and running a people is a different skill set than playing basketball >> or being an engineer. The leadership

skill set you excel in. That's right.

>> And so you do have a great resume in that sense. Now the trick is where do you want to >> plug it in? What type of a business?

What kind of dynamic environment do you want to be in where >> you're leading and then finding people through your connections with proximity principle to plug into one of those locations would be you just be amazing.

>> Yeah. I mean, he can absolutely make this transition and do very, very well because what he has going for him that a lot of NBA coaches don't have if they leave the that industry is he's got a really good degree. That engineering degree is very helpful. Meaning, he's got that skill set. He's got the mindset to think like an engineer. You add the leadership to it. Unbelievable.

Absolutely. It's exactly how it works.

So, hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and we will get you signed up for that. Uh send out that book to you meet.

Um so Ken the uh proximity principle the

the give us the thesis of that.

>> It just simply means this. If I am around the people and in the places that

of the space that I want to be in then opportunities come my way. And so the formula is this. The right people plus the right places always will equal opportunity. I got to get around the right people and then I get in the right places. And when I'm in the right places, I meet more of the right people.

And then they point me to the right places. And it is this knowledge and

connection combination that just keeps moving, moving, moving, moving, moving.

And if you stay with it long enough, opportunities show up on your doorstep.

This idea of kicking the door down is

Hollywood bravado. It makes for great fantasy. But in the real world, connections come at the most le at the most uh unexpected times because we keep showing up in the right place or we keep showing up around the right people and all of a sudden I'm top of mind or I've got the experience uh and I was showing up and then boom, I'm ready to step into it. Speaking of basketball, John Wooden,

arguably one of the greatest coaches of all time, certainly basketball, it's my favorite quote, Dave. He said, "When opportunity comes, it's too late to prepare." And the proximity principle gets me in a place when the opportunity shows up, I'm ready to step right into it because I kept putting myself around the right people and in the right places. This is the Ramsey Show.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramiesolutions.com/agent.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 3:6.

In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Thomas Sell says some of the biggest cases of mistaken identity are among intellectuals who have trouble remembering that they are not God.

>> Classic classic passive aggressive just

mic drop there by Thomas Soul.

>> Boom. There he goes. David is in Chicago. Hi David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> Oh, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. >> Sure. How can I help? >> Uh uh my question is is that I'm trying to do the baby steps. I got myself in a little bit of a quagmire with my debt, mostly uh real estate investment, but nothing horrible. So, I'm trying to apply the real uh the baby steps. And

I'd like to sell one of my rentals, but I just don't think my tenant is going to be able to relocate andor it's so somewhat of a a moral quandry,

anything.

Uh why why is your tenant why can't your

tenant relocate?

>> I I just don't think that she'll be able to get another home, especially one as nice and large as this one to house her

and her kids. >> So you're not you're not charging her market rent?

>> Uh yeah, it's close. I mean, I could probably charge her more. >> So if she's getting close to market rent, why can she not take close to market rent and go rent something else?

I I don't I don't think she I I just don't think that it's really available. I think it's really going to put her in a position and I think she's going >> Why is it not available? You think you have the only house?

>> No. No, I don't. I don't. But she's I think she's paying for her mom's rent, too. And I've tried to counsel her to like maybe they could live together, but I don't think that's a I don't think it's available. She's been late and

behind, you know, you know how it is as Reynolds. And I just like I said, "All right." >> Well, let me jump. David, let me ask a question. >> I'm curious. Did you feel this way? Did you have this concern for her before you

talked to her about the possibility that you were going to do this?

>> No. Uh yeah. Yeah, I did. Um

>> Okay. >> And what was her reaction when she when you told her that this was a possibility?

>> Uh I I've broken to her a little bit, but not I really haven't come down.

>> You didn't answer my question. What was >> I didn't really say it. >> I didn't really say anything about selling it. It really hasn't come up yet. >> Oh. >> Um I know it's not going to go over well because I don't I don't think she's going to find >> Well, but there's a lot of thinking. You keep using the word. Listen, I it it is not your job to manage her house.

>> That's right. >> You're her landlord, not her boss.

You're not her daddy.

>> And um so you're pay she's paying almost

market rent so she can pay this. Take the almost market rent and go rent something else. So, and and if she wants to combine households with her mom, that's completely her business >> and her problem.

>> It is not your job to manage her life.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> And you are not doing anything wrong.

>> No. >> To take an asset of yours and say, you know, >> yeah, I I you don't want to be uh mean or nasty about it. And if you want to give a little bit more notice, there's no nothing on fire here. Uh you know, we're going to instead of giving you I don't know, she on monthtomonth She is now. She didn't want to resign last summer. >> Oh, she didn't want to resign last summer. >> No.

>> Yeah.

>> I get I get a I get a fair amount of runners like that that don't want to resign. >> Yeah. >> Well, they're not committed to you. You don't have to commit to them. The point is you're not >> I think if you said, "Okay, I'm legally bound by the lack of a lease to give you one month's notice. Uh I'm going to give you three months.

That's a good compromise. >> And um that gives you plenty of time to work your way through this.

>> Um it I I've appreciated you being our tenant except for those times that you didn't pay on time and you don't have to say that, but you know, you're acting like this is some kind of freaking stellar tenant. They don't pay market rent and they don't pay on time.

>> So I I missed where I'm excited about this tenant. >> So um you know I uh uh and that's not

being mean. It's just uh like you got

really one job when you're a tenant.

Well, two don't tear up the house and pay the rent on time. These are the two jobs you got. >> So, um it's your job to make sure you're charged market rent. So, um uh so I No,

you don't have a moral dilemma at all.

You can be kind and you could give more than adequate notice and say, you know,

I'm sorry. Gosh, if there's any way I can help you with this, I'll try to help you. Uh, but if helping you means uh you

staying in the house past this 90-day mark, um that's not the type of help I'm talking about. So, um but if there's uh you know, if we can assist you in any way, I tell you about my friends that have properties uh help you find a you know, something like that. I I appreciate that this. But that's what we're going to do. We're going to give you three months notice. Listen, she can process this in 3 months. And

if she's angry at her landlord, who she refused to sign a lease with for giving her 3 months notice, who's only required to give her one month's notice, uh, that's her fault, not yours. That's her

fault. And so, I think this is all about David. He's such a nice guy >> that he's worried about a confrontational situation. And we understand that, but this is nothing more than a difficult conversation, and it's not his bag. And I get it. Uh, but

she's going to be fine just by virtue of only she don't want to sign a deal anyway. She's got options. She knows it could change at any time. David, you're a really good dude and you're just fretting over a difficult conversation >> and it's going to be over in about 4550 seconds.

I mean, there's not a lot to it. It's um, hey, going to be selling the house. I'm going to be sending you a note in the mail. So, we make it formal that um, you know, July 1st we're going to be done.

And I'm giving you plenty of time. You had 30, you have a 30-day, right? Um, but I'm going to give you 90 days just because you've been here a while and I want to be kind. And um, thanks. That's

it. I'm done. >> It's really It's really don't have to have big long thing here. It's not a whole bunch of feelings.

It's it's um >> I've had I've had landlords in my life and none of them had any feelings for me, >> you know. That's right. I just none of them did. I was I never had one that did that.

And uh I mean if you get a situation like we had one one time that uh you know a guy got a a terminal cancer diagnosis >> you know and he's got four months to live and he lost his job cuz he lost his health and his wife had three little kids at home and all this and so you know we just didn't charge him rent. We let him live there and let her live there after he passed for a little while. I mean we wor we worked with them but but that can't go on for eight years either.

even that, you know, it's a is a period of time we can have some grace and mercy with somebody in that situation.

to have to move. That's, you know, this lady, she really just got to move. I mean, that's part that's why, folks, that's why you want to be an owner when you can be. And um and not in a stupid

way. Don't go buy something you can't afford because I'm afraid my landlord's going to do that. Oh, by the way, if you don't have to move, sign a lease. Hello.

then they've, you know, he if he had a one-year contract, then he'd have have to honor that morally, ethically, legally, everything at that point.

>> So, there there's the process. And, you

know, here here's the other thing. Um, those of you that uh

are that that are thinking of owning real estate, you need to have a policy

of raising the rent every single year.

Because I've been doing real estate for about 40 years and rents have gone up

every single year. And the people that I know that get stuck in situations like this, they don't raise the rent for 5 years cuz it's a nice person and they pay on time and they cut the grass real in a little pattern and then we just love them and you don't raise the rent for 5 years and suddenly you've got a way below market situation and then you try to raise the rent and they have a fit like they think they're the owner.

Mh. >> So, it's really good. It just keeps the relationship uh accurately defined when we raise the

rent, even if it's a little bit. I mean, >> what's the Dave Ramsey way on that? Do you look at the market and then just under? >> We look at the market and we go if they've been with us a long time, it's a little under market.

>> Okay. >> But not I mean, I'll take it all the way to max plus some been there one year. We just take it up to market. If they've been there 5 years, we we tell them when they come in, too, >> right?

if you don't have that uh pattern you

set these you set an entitlement expectation in place and it creates real serious problems later it's a real bad idea that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books and we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember For there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Yeah.

Heat.

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## 269. You Don’t Get Out of Debt by Accident—Choose Your Hard | January 20, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. [music] Let's go. Grace is going to start us off in Asheville, North Carolina. Grace, how can we help today?

Hi, Ken. Thanks so much for speaking with me today.

My question is regarding my marriage and

how to handle finances. I'm the saver

in my marriage, whereas my husband's more of the free spirit.

And although we make a really great income, I'm still having a really difficult time staying encouraged when his heart hasn't

caught up to the sixth-grade math as you all have talked about. So, my question is more about how to not be a controller or an enabler and continue

being an encouraging wife when I just feel really let down and like there's a lot of arguments. Oh, bless your heart.

I I love this.

Um okay, couple questions.

Uh are you in the Baby Steps? And and if

so, where? And then, how long have you

got or have you been trying to get this going?

Great question. So, we are in the Baby Steps. We do have an emergency fund of a

little over a thousand dollars, which I'd be happy for it just to be a thousand, but I'll just say that for now. Right. Um we do have a personal loan um that's just left over on a truck that

we bought and we have a mortgage um since we own our house. >> Okay. How much is the loan on the truck?

The loan on the truck that we have left is just 19,7569.

So, 19,000.

1,000. Sorry. 1,975.

I got it down to the penny. Yeah. >> Did you borrow it from a family member?

No, we didn't. We had um we actually got a loan from the bank and then it's a it's a long story, but that's just essentially what we have left on it.

>> What is your income?

So, I make a base of 60 with an on-target earning of 90. Mhm.

And um my husband is he is commission

only. So, that's part of um the challenge and he has been commission only since we got married. Okay. What does he make?

He made um over 150 our first year of marriage.

It was about 160 um pre-tax.

And he's on track hopefully to to at least make 150 at this new position he has. He's been switching up quite a bit, but yeah.

>> How long have you been at How long ago did you bring this whole Ramsey plan to him?

Oh, immediately. No, no. How long ago?

Um well, we started talking about it when we were dating.

Um especially when we got engaged, we started talking about the debt that he had and >> I'm just trying I'm trying to I'm doing all this Sure. We've We've known each other for 3 years. We pretty much jumped into our relationship. We've been married for a little over a year and a half.

>> Okay. And the reason I'm asking all this stuff >> [clears throat] >> is because for Jade and I to weigh in and try to help you on your core question, which is I love the way you position it, by the way.

And so, what I'm trying to understand is is he opposed to this plan or is it just

really, really hard for him to live by the plan? What's What's his response?

>> say the latter. Like he'll say I'm a Christian, I'm not a Ramsey-an.

Interesting. >> Cuz he thinks I'm so hardcore >> Okay. >> about it, but I think but he also is is aware of the fact that it's relative, right? So, I come off very extreme to him and he comes off very extreme to me.

Got it. Yeah.

I'll be honest, the fact that he's

likening a money plan to a religion lets me know that it's coming across to him through you uh as quite extreme. Give me an

example. Like give me a real-time example of a conversation that you've had where he was on one end and had one opinion and what it was and you were on the other hand and had another opinion and what it it what it was.

Great question. So, yesterday we were going over where we are for January and

um for example, like our grocery budget is a thousand dollars Okay. a month. For just the two of you?

Yeah. >> No kids. Okay. >> We have no children. I think it's very reasonable. I said, "What are your thoughts on all of this?" Um and we we

got to the grocery category. He basically said, "Uh I see that we're like almost we're at the upper 900s, like 990 something. I think that's to be

expected." And I caught it later. I said, "Well, why would you say that this is to be expected if we have a budget of a thousand dollars and we're on the mark to essentially double it, why would we have agreed to this? Are you saying it more so needs to be 2,000?" And he'll get really upset because I come off like

I'm trying to preach to him or coach him or like tell him that he's not really getting it, that this isn't okay. So, I feel like I'm also very passive and it comes off disrespectful, but I'm also like getting really, really frustrated.

>> Uh go back for me. I I may have missed something. So, the budget's a thousand.

You're up to it at like 990 something.

Help me understand the doubling part. I think I missed that.

Yeah, so I basically said because we're at the middle of the month, we're doing like a like a full month. >> Yeah, you're saying we need to slow down. We're up at it. I just want to make sure I understood that properly.

Right. >> And he was more so Why did you say this is to be expected?

Like when he looked at it, he said, "Well, that's to be expected for groceries." Understood.

>> like, "Well, why are you saying that?" Okay, understood. Cuz you're saying we set a boundary, we should stick to the boundary, and he's saying, "Well, this is just an indicator that this is what we spend. So, if we go to 2,000, that

that that should be accurate." Okay.

So, I I Here's Here's what I want to just a fun experiment, okay? I want you to pick one-word answers to these two questions, Grace, okay? And and don't overthink it.

Okay. I'll try not to. >> Okay, great. I just want you to go top of mind, [laughter] okay? If you were to pick one word to describe what you value about money,

say what what that What is that one word? Safety. What is it?

Safety. >> Safety. Okay, great. I thought that was going to come out. What do you think he would say? What's the word that he would say? >> Freedom. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. Yes. I did, too. So, the reason I've gone to this is because I actually think

this is a 100% marriage conversation. This is not a money conversation. You guys and you are

different in that you said that you're the saver and he's the spender and Dave has talked about the natural, but I actually think for you guys, you got to go below why each of you is is is one of you is the spender or one of you is the saver. And I think when you're attempting to adopt [snorts] a value system like Ramsey

Solutions, the Baby Steps are based on a value system, right? Mhm. And it's

really hard for some people to get into that system. It's easier for others.

Okay? Cuz Dave's got a very rigid plan,

right? No wiggle room, a lot of black and white, and people that aren't naturally black and white, who aren't rigid and disciplined, at times can have a harder time adopting it. So, we can't really solve this for you but other than I believe that I would start over.

I really believe that I would sit down with a therapist and not make this heavy with him. Just go, "You know what? I've been too intense. I think you've led the system, so I think you've got to lead the healing and the reboot. And I think it needs to be let's start over and let's give it to the therapist. Not because we're we're our marriage is dying, because I think we need to reset on a very important issue and I've got some safety issues with money.

>> [music] >> And you're so amazing, can we restart?" And I think if we start with a therapist on language around this and then restart, I think you guys can heal on this.

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All right, let's go to John in Newark, New Jersey. John, how can we help today?

Hi John and Ken, thank you so much for taking my call. Big fans.

>> Oh, thank you. How can we help you?

Yeah, so essentially, um, my wife and I

are a single income family. We have two babies, a 4-year-old, 2-year-old, and one due next month.

And we recently started following the baby steps.

Uh, my question is regarding the size of our debt and when exactly should we start tackling this?

So, we have about 600,000 in student loans

plus a mortgage and two car leases, which after listening to Dave Ramsey, we're going to get rid of us.

How much is the student loans?

So, uh, 500,000 me, 100,000 for my wife.

Oh, wow. Okay. And then tell me about the cars.

Um, so the cars are two leases, just an F-150 and an Expedition. What are the prices every month?

Uh, we pay about 800 for her car, about

600 for mine for mine.

>> My, my, my. Okay, this is an expensive situation. >> We made We We made these before listening to Dave Ramsey. What's your degree in? For 500 K. Um,

I'm a plastic surgeon. Good.

>> Oh, what do you What's your income? Did we ask that? Uh-uh. It's It's about say varies a

little bit, but it's about 750.

Excellent. Excellent news.

>> Excellent. Well, that's That's the good news. Yeah. Okay, so this kind of puts

it in perspective. It's all relative, right? Depending on the numbers. So, when is the baby due?

Baby due is in 3 to 4 weeks from now.

Okay, and what money do you have saved?

We have about 122,000

in a in a high-yield saving. Okay, so you've got Would you say that that covers 6 months of expenses or 4 months?

How many months of expenses does that cover? >> [snorts] >> Mhm. About to cover about over 6 months.

Over 6 months. Okay, great. So, I would say, you know, typically we say when there's a baby coming, you're kind of in stork mode. Save up as much as you can.

You've got plenty saved. >> on. Let's just get real here. What's your take-home? As a plastic surgeon, what's your average take-home in a month?

So, in a month I've been averaging about 34. >> Right, you got plenty money. You got gobs of money. You can fix this so fast, it's not even funny. Well, Jay's going to walk you through it, but but I don't think he needs to stack up. No, I said he doesn't. I'm just also saying for the benefit of a listener who is used to us saying if there's a baby coming, stop and save. I'm explaining why he doesn't need to do that cuz he's got plenty saved. So, you don't need to do that.

Um, we normally would give that advice, but you've got plenty. And so, I would go ahead and push play. Um, even if by the by the way, even if there were some form of complications and your insurance kicked in and you hit your full deductible, even if you hit your out-of-pocket max for the year, you'd be fine. So, that's why I think that you can go ahead and hit play on this. And if I were you, um, when do these leases when are they up? So, uh, next year.

Oh, can you get Can you find out what it is to get out of them early?

Mhm. Yeah, that's That's our plan. Our plan is to find out and get rid of them as as fast as we can. >> Yeah, do that. Do that. There's no need in keeping this around any any faster. I

would take a little bit of the money of the 122,000 you have saved and buy some

cash cars. Um, and it's not going to be the the be-all end-all. I'm not saying you have to spend $4,000, but I am saying it's probably going to be less than the cars you drive now, just to get you something in cash, but don't drop that emergency fund below 6 months in order to do this.

Um, and then I would start getting cracking with the rest of that money once the baby is born.

With the rest of that 6-month fund, I would come in and I would clear out one of these student loans. And you're going to drop that pretty low.

Mhm. I guess my my wife and I worry is

that given the size of our student loans, if we follow the baby steps, we will kind of burn through all our savings Yeah.

and be a little ways away from being able to pay them and being a single single income family.

>> Okay, so let me let me address that cuz I'm going to tell you straight up. I'll tell you the 100% truth. If you do it the way that I'm going to suggest, it's going to feel uncomfortable because I want you to be debt-free really, really fast because I value the same thing you do, which is to get to security quickly.

Right? To to your point, you're a one income family. You've got lots of kids.

Right now, your house is on fire.

You've got almost $700,000 of debt. So,

>> Yes. you got to clear it out. So, I'm on your side in the way that I want to do it as quickly as possible. So, if you take 122,000 and you pay off the $100,000 student loan, you clear out the mortgages, you spend 10 or 11,000 dollars each on some knock-around cars until this thing is cleared out. And then for, I don't know,

a year, you guys live on 200,000 instead of 700,000 and you pay off the $500,000 student loan. I think that that's possible.

Because most people in the in in the United States wish they had a $200,000 income. So, if you if you live on 250

and use the other 500 to pay off the loans, you're done in a year.

For for pretty much live with a minimum or minimal emergency savings

until those are done. >> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

Yes, 100%. This is Yeah, so that means

you have a thousand >> baby step number two.

Yeah, but if you were to follow the baby steps the way we teach, you are emptying that that that savings account. Cuz here's the thing. Let Let Let me Let me hit you with this. Let's play it out.

Let's say I tell you, "Hey Hey, drop your drop your savings down to $1,000

just to have a little cash there. Pay off the $100,000 student loan. Like I said, pay 10 or 11,000 dollars each on some cars. And over the course of the year, spend $500,000 of your income to

pay off this debt." If you have an emergency, what's the worst emergency you can think of? The roof blown off your house?

Right. I mean, something happening to me that that I wouldn't be able to work.

>> So, let's Well, that's a different That That's a life insurance question. So, we'll talk about that in a second. But let's pretend a big gust of wind comes tomorrow. You've taken your savings down to a thousand and the roof blows off your house, right?

Something crazy. You make $34,000 a month.

I'm pretty sure you could stop paying debt for that month and cash flow whatever the emergency is, right?

That's a very good point. You see what I'm saying? If you're concerned about you're being a one one income family, that's a life insurance question. And that's And And disability. Do you have life insurance? I have I have both, yeah. Okay, then you're covered. So, the point is if something happens to you and you can no longer be a plastic surgeon, Mhm. are Have you put in place policies that would take care of you and your family?

I have, yeah. >> then. So, what are we stressing out about? Now, we know this is extreme. Um, but let's play the numbers out so you can catch a little vision here cuz Jay just played out how you can knock off, you know, a lot of debt. So, if you fix these car leases and can get out of these and then you knock out your wife's student loan, now you've got a $500,000 chunk. How much money, if you're on a tight budget, could you put towards debt, that student loan, every month based on the 34?

Yeah, I think projecting with with the three babies, we could probably put away

at least maybe 15 or a little more per

per month. >> Great. So, let's keep it at 15 for round numbers, right? So, you just do the math. 15,000 a month

over the course of how many months knocks out the 500,000? I think it's really important that you have that in your head so that you go, "Okay, I've got to do this. It's not for 10 years.

It's for, you know, whatever that's going to end up being." I don't I'm not that good at math. All right, 15 * 10 months obviously is 150,000.

So, we're looking at 3-plus years at the 15,000.

But that's just at that. But that's to say, you gave us an average month. So, you know, how does a plastic surgeon go make more money? That would be the answer I'd be wanting to know.

>> [laughter] >> I don't know. I don't know. That's not my world, but I bet there's a way. How do you What do we What do you have to do to make a million dollars? >> Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, cuz taxes is eating up a lot of this. I know there's a I know there's a lot of vain people.

Uh, >> [laughter] >> Yeah. My point is, and I was using very round numbers, too round probably, but my point is, the quicker you get this done, the quicker you can go back to living your plastic surgeon's lifestyle with the cars you want and the income you want and the savings that you want.

But if you're trying to solve for security, security is best gotten quickly, not little by little, drip by drip over time. You want to get to that place of security fast and ripping off the band-aid is the way to get that.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Colin next in Salt Lake City. Colin, how can we help today?

Hello, how are y'all doing today? >> Great, how are you, sir?

I'm doing very well. I'll I won't steal Dave's catchphrase.

Go ahead. If it feels good, say it. We don't care.

I'm doing better than I deserve. >> There it is. I knew you wanted to say it, so there you go.

All right. >> It's true. Good. But, anyway, my question today is I'm on baby step two,

and I keep getting into debt because of my poor spending habits, and that's what I want to fix.

And so, if you'd like, we can get into where I'm at. No.

>> debts? Not yet. Because I think you just presented what you really need to fix.

>> Mhm. Now, I'll turn it over to Jade to walk you through how to get out of this very specifically, but let's dive into this. What do you think? You hear you are calling a big show, and you're bearing this to the world because I think you're probably sick and tired of this. Yes or no?

Yes, I am very sick of it.

>> All right, then what do you think is causing you to spend irresponsibly? What do you think's below the surface?

Well, I'm I'm pretty young. I'm 24, and

I never really learned how to manage my money well. I had people who tried to teach me, but I didn't listen. And I started making really good money pretty early on. Who tried to teach you?

My dad. Okay. He tried very hard to teach. Okay, and what kind of money are you making?

I'm making about $60,000 a year base, but last year I made just under 80,000

Okay. with overtime and everything. And then, be really honest. Tell us Tell Jade and I what you spend your money on.

If we were to go through and do an audit, and what would we find that we would consider irresponsible?

A lot of things. Um mainly, biggest one is probably going to be food. Right? Even though I meal prep, sometimes I want to go get some food.

Sure. But, the bigger ones The bigger ones are nice things. Like what?

Like what? Things. Like what? So,

um I'm trying to think of some I'm sure they're sitting in your [laughter] driveway. >> is it for you to How hard is it for you to remember the big things you've bought in the last 12 months? >> Yeah. What? What are we talking about? >> In the last 12 months, so of course, I have a motorcycle. I have a an SUV.

>> Uh-huh. Right? I got those, and that takes up the bulk of my debt. Okay. Um

But, >> And are you taking trips?

>> No, I'm not taking trips. It's mainly

buying higher quality things cuz I don't like buying cheap things multiple times.

>> Okay, so are you buying higher quality things on debt?

Or are you using cash?

In some cases, it's using debts. Okay.

Who are you trying to impress? >> Uh-huh.

Um probably myself, but that could be a lie. I don't really have anybody around.

I'm single. I'm not in the dating market.

>> deal. We'll save time because you don't have to answer that now because that's putting you on the spot, but I think that's a legitimate question you need to wrestle with. I also think uh the question you have to wrestle with is

what does success mean?

Because if success to you means I can

buy this, I can buy that, I can buy that, and it just is a list of things that you can buy, you'll just keep buying and buying and buying. But, if success equals something um uh a little more weighty, I think it could cause you to pull back on some of those purchases. So, I think those are good questions to sit down and really

think through. Is what Is what What does this mean to me? What am I trying to to solve for here?

Okay. >> sense? Does Does success mean I have an $80,000 vehicle, or does success mean I

have options? Does success mean I can buy three motorcycles, or does success mean I have time freedom, right?

>> How would you define a broke person?

Do that for me.

Um somebody who's broke is probably if they lose their job, they lose their

livelihood.

Right? So, not just the job itself, but I'm talking their car, they can't go to work, they can't make money.

Right? They might lose their house. Mhm.

>> You know, somebody who's kind of a slave to the debt. You're on path I don't want to be >> path you're on is to be a guy who has a lot of stuff, but is broke. >> Mhm. Yeah, cuz there's plenty of people who make $40,000

a year, don't have debt, don't overspend, don't go into debt over things that they can't afford, and that person at this point's more successful financially than you are. Mhm.

Mhm. Right? So, I think it's really good to think about what Ken just said, to think about what I just said because I have I have a It's not a numbers problem, right? We can go through your numbers, we can show you that you've got margin, we can show you I mean, and we can do that in this call. We can talk about paying off your debt, but this is kind of um this is a values question on Mhm.

>> who do you want to be with your money?

What's important to you? What's actually going to give you meaning with your money? Cuz my guess is you're a hard worker, you're going to keep earning more and more and more, but stuff really does um when it just starts piling up

and piling up, it starts to kind of lose its meaning. And I think that you're starting to sense that already, yeah?

Yes. It's almost uh the instant gratification of buying things justifies

my hard work. >> Mhm. Yeah. Well, and let's also Yeah.

>> And it can. I'm not saying that it can.

I do think that when Ken, when we work, you you earn your paycheck, and you do like you picture a lifestyle that goes along with the money that you earn. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it becomes a problem when we're willing to go into debt because now it becomes a facade. Once you go into debt, it means you couldn't afford it.

So, it becomes That's a fake level of success. What if you just Cuz if you had told me before, Jade, I like high-quality things, I would have said, yes, me too, Colin. If you had said, Jade, I just like spending money on nice dinners and nice nice clothes, and if I go on a date, I want to do it up, I would have said, me too, Colin. You lost me when you said you were going into debt to do it.

Yes. So, that's the pullback right there. You um Have you ever Are you a country music fan by any chance?

A little bit. I dabble. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever heard of the song "Way Down Yonder on the Chattahoochee".

>> Oh, way down yonder on the Chattahoochee, never knew how much that muddy water meant to me. >> There's a line in there that came up in my head. All right, have you ever heard of the song, Colin?

I haven't. I'm I'm not a big fan of country music. >> Here's the point. Okay? There's a lyric

that came up in my mind from that great song that reminds me of you. Okay? And I don't say this in an ugly way. So, forget the whole country music thing, but there's a line that says, "Never had a plan, just living for the minute." >> Uh never had a plan, just living for the minute. >> I think that kind of defines you. I don't think there's some deep heaviness necessarily with you and money. I just think you're young, and you you you want

things in life. You want some finer things. You like the finer things. And I'll bet you that there's also a connection between your dad, what a good man he is, who tried to tell you about this, and I'll bet you, tell me if I'm right or wrong, that your dad's pretty darn frugal. True or false?

Nowadays, he is. Mhm.

>> After he made his mistakes and tried to get me to not make those mistakes.

>> Yeah, so did he Did he have a time in his life where he was buying lots of toys he couldn't afford?

Oh, yes. >> Okay. So, hey, so listen, here's another thing. That runs in you.

So, all of this is awareness. All I'm doing is kind of helping you get aware to to where you go, "Okay, now I've got to change my list." And I think this is a fun exercise for you. If I were coaching your house, this is what I do.

I go get out a legal pad, draw a line down the middle, and I want you to write have to on the left and want to on the right. Now, you have a very different have to list at 25 than I do at 51. I

got three kids, you know, I one's one's

in college, I got two doodles. And so, when my money comes in every month, I have a long have to list. But, I get

great satisfaction, the same satisfaction that you just mentioned in Jade, I get from providing and taking care of my responsibilities. But, my have to list is where my priority is. And even now, and I make good money, all right? All right, but I still have a have to and a want to. And my want to's, Jade knows some of that list, there's some expensive toys out there that I want, but guess what?

They come in second That's right.

>> to the have to's. And I think for you to say, "Now, where do I want to be when I'm Ken's age?" Unfortunately, I'm that old to where I can use that example. And that's 30 years from you, right? Where do you want to be? So, now make your have to list with your money every month based on where you want to end up in life. You're spending all your time in the want to column, which is natural, so I'm not beating up on you, but flip that mindset and watch the discipline come with it.

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All right, let's go to Russell who joins us in Colorado Springs. Russell, how can we help today?

Hello, thank you. Um my wife and I just wanted to get some advice on whether we need to sell our home or take one of our refinancing quotes we've recently received. Okay, run us through the numbers.

All right. Uh we make about $9,000

monthly.

Um but our current mortgage is $3,250.

Okay. And then our utilities are usually 300.

And then we also have a minivan that has 8,500 left that we've been putting 600

to every month.

Okay.

Uh minivan. And so, tell me about the refi offers. Tell me about your current interest rate and what the refis are.

>> [clears throat] >> Yep, so current interest rate is 6.25.

Mhm. And the best that I could get was actually a Churchill Mortgage who gave me 5.25 right now, and it would save us

uh $320 [clears throat] a month. Okay, which doesn't solve your problem, per se.

Um >> Yeah. You're about $1,000 off from where you want to be. You want to be about $2,250.

Is there a light at the end of that tunnel? Cuz so far, the savings is not

enough for me to be like, "Woohoo, go do it." I'd I'd be looking at some other things in your life that could shift um

to bring in a little bit more cash. Is there something there on on the career front?

>> we are active duty military, so we could move on base, which with utilities and

rent would only cost $2,300.

Okay, great. >> we'd have to sell the home, and that's what we're worried about. Well, let's walk through that for a minute. When will you will you be transferring anytime soon? Do you have a kind of a scheduled move as a lot of military folks do?

Yeah, in the next 2 years we there's a chance we can move. Well, there you go, Jade. That is good. How big of a chance that you'll move?

Um Pro- we could stay here. We're in we're in Space Force, so we could stay, uh but we could also choose to move.

It's not as big of a deal Okay. Do you think you would choose to move, or would you choose to stay? I I think it depends on which house we are in. Ah, okay. So, let's then go back

before we tackle this house. Go back and tell me about the other debt. Are you said there was a minivan.

Did I hear that right? >> Yes. Tell me what else. Yep, and that's that's it. How much is it again?

It is currently 8,500. Okay, 8,500.

Um and there's no other debt besides that.

No. And how much is that monthly payment? You probably already said it, but It's it's only 240, but we've been paying 600. >> You've been paying 600. >> to pay it off, but I was uh worried about the government shutdown. So, that isn't going to happen now. Got it.

Um So, if you moved on base, you'd save $1,000, it'd get everything right side up, but if you lived in the base housing, you would not want to stay there long-term.

Potentially, yes. Yeah, but I think that's >> worry for us is that we owe 462 on our house, and they told us it'd probably be 450. Yeah.

Okay. Um I I think moving on base, this is very black and white to me. So, I I'm sitting there looking at if I were in your shoes, you guys got way too much house, and your cat your income is capped, right? The there's no income fix on this because of your military role, and there is also a let's call it 50/50 chance

that you're going to move. If you did that, we always give advice to the folks in the military, don't become a long range landlord. >> For sure. So, because of all of this, >> trying to I wanted to be right side up on the house a little bit, cuz you said it was 462, and it's worth 450.

He can't. There's no way to unless you can find a way to solve that, I don't think that's solvable, but I'd rather take that hit and get into the base the

cut their expenses and get in the base housing. I just think this house was a bad idea, and I think I would go on base, reset, and get your financial house in order.

You can always buy another house, but because you're in the military anyway, That's that's an option. I'm not saying it's Yeah, you could have a different piece of advice. I just don't know how you fix being upside down on a house.

>> Well, let's lay out time. So, let's lay out both options. So, Ken, option number one is go ahead and sell the house, take the loss, move into base housing, save yourself $1,000 a month, and then you'll have

freed up money to pay off the 8,500.

Another option is can your wife work?

Can your wife make a thousand bucks a month?

Um she stays at home and home schools, so we we don't want her to.

>> Yes, the answer to that is yes.

Right. She can make $1,000 a month.

She's the the kids aren't in school 24 hours a day.

Right. Right. That's that's option two.

Option two is Option two is wife makes

[snorts] it a point to say, "I'm going to try to make between 900 to a thousand bucks a month." Suddenly, there's no more squeeze on the income. You're right at the 25% point, which is where you want to be, and then your only debt's 8,500 on the van. That's your only debt.

And then suddenly you pay that off, you've got 600 bucks a month back in your pocket, the mortgage is in the rightful spot, and you can ride that house out until it's time to move. And then when the option to move comes, if you want to move, you can. If you don't want to move, you can stay there, and hopefully by then, after those 2 years, you're back right side up on this house, and the market has done you well. So, that's option two.

Um neither of these are wrong nor right, they're just what you think is best. Would you agree with that, Ken? Or do you think Do you think my No. Do you think I think if they're comfortable as a couple with her committing to make that kind of money, Mhm.

but that's not a lifestyle choice they've chosen. So now I look at that and I go, "By the way, I 100% agree that is a viable option." Um but I I still think they have too much house.

you all to sneak underneath where you need to be, it's too much house. Yeah, it is, but at the same time >> up from the audience. That's all I'm saying. Thumbs up from the audience out there.

>> NO, ONLY FROM THAT KID. NO, from [laughter] this lady right here. Oh. Oh, there's a guy right there that's frowning at me.

>> Yeah, I think not because if it would be one thing >> you're frowning. I'm giving them a viable option here. >> It'd be one thing if they both worked if they both worked and it was still but it's they're really squeaking by. It's right there.

>> That's my point. They're squeaking by because of the house. >> Yes.

especially while upside down, is a big is a big deal. So I I would tend to err

err towards option two. That's just what I would do. >> go with I'll go with two to make you and the guy in the lobby happy. But here's the deal. Here's Here's why I'm saying this. They're also in the military.

Yeah, they're they're going to move anyway. >> If they were in this place long term, I would have sided with the option one. I just think because they're not there long term, probably, then I think you got to look at that. But again, Yeah, but think about how much they're going to lose on their upside down.

They don't have that cash. That's going to create more debt for them. Again, I'm sticking to getting out of debt and you got to choose your pain. Choose your heart.

So there you go. I I listen, I don't need to be right. I gave him another option. >> I want to know what he's going to choose.

>> Well, a lot of it has to do with the wife. Yeah. I think in today's digital world where you can hop on the internet, you can sell anything, you can tutor. I mean, she's a teacher.

There's a lot you can do to make a thousand bucks Listen, I so am in agreement with yours as an option that she could make more than a thousand bucks. >> right. They might decide it's not a value for them. Yeah, but you're right.

There's no question they can right side from an income. >> Mhm. If she's working. >> You're saying it's all values.

I again, you know me, I come down to it's always a Ramsey principle first, but then we got to look at the practicality of the relationship. So there are winning there are cases where there's multiple options to achieve the principle. So how will they pay off the upside down? Selling stuff, she's working, doing other things, but they're out of that house. >> though. But they're out of the house.

>> That's true. So I That's why I like both options. Yeah, they're both good. Call us back and tell us what you do. Yeah, either way though, it's right. You've got to choose your heart because you're in a situation you shouldn't be in. So that's the moral of the story there.

Hey, thanks for the call. Appreciate you all serving our country. You're a great American.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] Studio.

I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is alongside and we got a Michael who's joining us in Las Vegas. Michael, how can we help today?

Hey, so I was discussing with my wife some kind of some payments we're making and different things and kind of getting things planned out for the near future and one

of the clouds that's kind of hanging over us is the money that we owe her parents and I a lot of it kind of came into the relationship from before I even met her and so I was just

kind of wondering how I should go about a conversation with my in-laws to try to kind of figure this out and I guess what's right for me to ask for and I guess just how to go about it all.

So did she owe them money on her own before you got married?

Yes, so roughly a decade ago she started college and they pretty much just gave her a blank check and told her I mean, I'm still kind of cloudy on the conversations that did happen and I've never been involved any of them since.

Okay. >> And so they basically wrote her a blank check and she and then took out some student loans in her name as well and we're paying off the student loans.

We should have that paid off by the end of the year. We're, you know, being really diligent with that.

>> The student loan is about 22 grand.

Okay, and how much was the blank check for? Um that's where based on the ledger I've seen, it's about 46 to I think it's about $46,000. Okay, and what did that money go towards? Just life? Yeah, it was living expenses, college.

There were things on there like one of the most noticeable for me was Amazon fake plants for $29.95.

Okay. >> just a lot of Just a lot of little knickknack stuff. I want to rewind to the to the start of your question here because the way I heard it, you were asking us, "How do I go about

you how do you go about talking to her parents >> [laughter] >> about money they loaned her?" Am I Did I

I want to make sure I hear it right. Is that what I heard? >> Yes. Yes, that's correct.

>> and your wife have talked about this and you two or you nominated yourself as the spokesperson. Well, I want to know what's behind this. I'm going somewhere with this. Okay.

>> Mhm. But then she also isn't I mean, up to date on everything and she So we and

we've talked about it and she's agreed to have a conversation with her parents and I think I'm kind of spearheading this and I really just want to make sure >> the Both of you are planning to sit down with the parents and this wasn't clear to me either. So this is why the follow-up. What is the goal of you all

sitting down with the parents? [laughter] I'm wondering the same thing. >> Okay, good. Um I want to know I guess what they really expect >> The money?

Yeah, the money if that's something [laughter] that like we're really supposed to pay them back for this $30 for plants even, you know, things like that. >> Yeah, but wait a second. Wait wait wait. Is it not clear to you two right now that they expect her or you two cuz you're both together now.

They have only told her oh, just pay it back whenever you can kind of afford it. >> going to I'm going to go I got to go in on this. So if I go to the bank [laughter] and I borrow, I don't know, $46,000

and I spend it on, I don't know, fake plants and some other doodads and just it adds up little over time.

>> Doodads. I like that. If I go into the bank and say, "You know what?

I don't I don't think I should pay you back because I spent this money on fake plants and whatnot." They're going to go, "We don't care. You borrowed the money and we'd like it back, right?" So it's the same thing here. It doesn't matter what she spent it on.

It clearly you don't agree with the things that she spent it on. Clear you clearly you view it as somewhat wasteful, money that shouldn't have been borrowed. That's That lives over here in a separate conversation.

I think it's I think it's really really a wrong move. This is why you called, so I'll just get this out of the way. I think it's a bad idea for you and your wife to sit down and put that in their lap. Yeah, don't do that.

>> if I borrowed money from somebody, I got to pay it back. Mhm. And I don't go down and go, "Now, hey, how much of this do you really want back?" That is so passive-aggressive.

It's not good for the relationship and I will also tell you as a guy who's been married 28 years and I love my in-laws.

Ain't no chance I'm getting involved in that conversation. That's between That's between your wife and her parents. Yes,

but Michael's conversation, the person he's really got beef with is his wife. I agree. >> That's the conversation that I agree.

You've got to let her know or maybe don't let her know, but you reconcile like, "Man, I'm struggling that I got brought in on this debt. It is for fake plants. It's just uh >> I'm willing to to pay it all back as your husband, uh but I've booked a tee time while you're talking to your parents. Let me know how it goes." I'm not getting involved in that.

I'm really not. Other than to say we owe this to your parents.

Do you? No, I would not touch that with a 10-ft pole. >> That's going to make Thanksgiving real tasty. Uh I just I think you two Now, this will

be my advice if if you and your wife were in the room with us right now, I'd go, "Hey, don't do that." Yeah. Just just own it and pay it back. I

think you're going to sleep better, don't you? >> I think the heart Like again, I just said this happened before Michael was involved, and he's like share if he could turn back time, he never would have even done this. And yet, here it is

like like John would say, "Not by his hand, but in his lap." So, there's He's just struggling with dealing with this.

And >> I feel for you. >> Yeah, I do, too. It's tough It's tough to take on debt from uh you know, a spouse who's bringing it into the relationship when you don't agree with what the debt was used for.

So, Michael, we we I I I'm only following up here because we've hit you with a lot, and we're both on the same page here. Um where do you think your wife is with this response that you called the show and we gave you the What Where do you think she sits with all this?

I think she probably agrees with it. Um but I I think I see the pain that this kind of Mhm. causes her, too. So.

Well, let me rephrase that. The only pain your wife should feel around this is the pain of paying the money back cuz you got to sacrifice. >> Yeah, right. I I don't think there needs to be I think she should come away with this going, "When I make this right, I am in good standing as a daughter.

I have fulfilled my commitment to my parents. I There shouldn't be any pain." In fact, there ought to be an emotional joy to go, "I did what was right." The only pain is the sacrifice we teach every day on this show anyway, which is continue to walk the baby steps out. I don't see any pain.

No, I think just that guilt that she has for I mean, lack of financial education

and stability in >> Well, we've all done dumb. You've heard So, well, you've heard Dave say it a million times, "We've all done dumb and stupid with money. No shame." And the best way to get rid of that guilt, Jade, give you the final word on that. You write a lot about money and emotions.

>> I do. In matter of fact, I'm going to have Christian pick up and send you a copy of what no one tells you about money because what I think will really help you guys One of the ways um to deal with guilt and shame is to set boundaries. And I think you both need to do that. You know, it's very easy for us to set boundaries for other people, but you both need to say, "You know what?

We know the information. We know what happened. It's done. We don't need to keep rehashing it.

We don't need to keep bringing it up. We're paying it, and that's that on that." And set a boundary that says, "We don't talk we don't talk about this in that way anymore of this this thing you did, this thing you did." She doesn't get to do it. You don't get to do it. It's over.

We pay it. We move on.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, next up is Karen in Detroit.

Karen, how can we help?

Hi. My daughter [music] is getting married pretty soon, and about 5 years ago, her sister got married, and my husband and I offered them $20,000 to cover wedding expenses,

and that worked out well.

And we've done the same with this daughter, but she um she and her fiance are

very frugal, and they would like to just spend

6 or 8,000 on their wedding, and and have asked us if they could use the rest for other costs, you know, future

house down payment or something like that. And um it's great that they're frugal. We appreciate that. But we have some real concerns about um not enough food, not

enough seating, uh too small of a They're cutting corners so much that we feel it will be a regret. It'll be what?

Um regret. That they will regret it in the future.

Okay, I got to jump right in here and let's lean in on this.

So, you and your husband feel this way.

Have you uh brought up those concerns to them specifically?

We have. And what was their response?

We're We believe it is a waste of money

to spend so much on one day.

And our values are more that we just want to save money, and we're okay if there's if

it's a real minimalist day. But they do still want to have a full dinner and 150 people. Okay, so let's lean in on

that one. Did you start walking through with them how are you going to feed 150 people?

We did. And what they say? And

um it's okay if we have minimalist food.

We don't Like what? Like coast pizza rolls? Like what are we saying?

[laughter] Well, I yeah, like do do they have a real plan is what I'm What So, I don't keep asking 100 questions. I'm I'm getting at do they have an actual plan?

And then the second question is, if they do, you just don't like it. Is that true or false?

They do have an actual plan. Okay.

>> You're embarrassed by it.

Well, we are. We're inviting a lot of

people. We're not even sure they'll have chairs.

Can I just say, and Jade will not probably will not like this. I just I'm thinking of past calls. I am

ultra conservative on wedding costs, and

I say this is a fabulous young couple,

and I say it's either a gift or it isn't. And if the money is a gift, when

I give someone a gift, all right, let me just use Sam as example. All right, I know like I know Sam loves uh shoes, for instance. If I buy Sam a pair of custom Jordans or something or other, and I give them to him, and and Sam's going to be like, "Oh my gosh, thank you." And I go, "Hey, now listen, I don't actually want you to wear these outside the house." >> [laughter] >> That's that's wild.

That's too much. But my point is I'm I Yes, it's insane, but it's a true example. >> Yeah. If I give Sam a gift of shoes, I don't get to tell Sam how and where he wears his shoes. I'm giving him a gift.

And I actually think uh you should honor

this request and need to get over it, and I would start bragging on them. I love the fact that their response to you was, "Our values are this." I love that they actually have a plan. And you know what? As much as you joke about it, if they want to offer pizza bagels, Do it.

step into it, and tell all your friends, "We want you to come honor our our our our daughter and and whatever whatever whatever and son-in-law. And and you know what? This is the most frugal couple.

It's not your normal wedding, but we're so stinking proud of them, and they're going to take what they save on the wedding, and they're going to put it to starting their life off and paying off debt, and change the narrative because I'm going to tell you, I'm preaching right now, but if they feel

what I think they've already felt from you, and you don't change that tune, there's going to be resentment around what could be the most special day of their life, but it's their special. So, I'm That's it. I'm out. That's all I got to say. I concur, my friend.

>> Wow. I 100% agree.

Because everybody has a picture of what a wedding should be.

Um you gave them You guys came up with that amount based on what you think a quote good wedding would cost is my guess. And so, the hardest part is

I think for the for the the parent and for the the child is when you're not

matching matching up. Um and I think everybody's probably experienced it who's been married. The parent wants one thing, the bride or groom wants something else, and ultimately, it's the bride or groom's wedding. Now, I got a hot take. Remember this, Karen. 50% of

the wedding attendees don't even care about the wedding. It's dudes. Any dude that's going to that wedding is going cuz his wife wants him to be there and we don't care if there's They probably like the pizza rolls. You could You could hand out peanuts. Yeah.

Guys don't care.

Only people that really care about all of it is the are women at the wedding.

What's that?

Guys have to have good food, don't they?

No. I mean, they'd be okay with pizza rolls and beer. Are you Yeah, are you kidding me? But this guy in the audience is shaking his head yes. He's >> [laughter] >> No, I'm serious. Like the average guy The average guy I'm trying to And I'm not trying to be funny. I'm actually be The average guy that you will invite to this wedding is only coming because of the social pressure to come. They would much rather send their wife and stay home and watch football. And so they're there because they have to be there.

They don't want to dress up.

>> most people fall into that camp, let's be honest. >> Okay, see, I wasn't going to speak on behalf of women cuz I don't know. I assume women love the pageantry and all that things. >> Uh it If it's a best, you know, if it's our maid of honor or like a best friend or a sister, okay, yeah, family member.

But if it's just Linda from from church

or from work, it's like uh I got to go.

I got to get a gift. >> 100%. You know why? The meal makes me stay at this place I don't want to be at longer.

>> is the best part. If you have a good cake, you're fine. >> I don't even care. I go buy cake.

If I want to buy cake, I can buy cake. for the cake. >> I I have made enough money in my life to buy cake whenever I want to. So, if I want cake, I'm not staying at a wedding for cake.

>> guys look forward to at a wedding is when they get in the car and go back home. >> [laughter] >> So, the point here, Karen, is >> couple. They don't need to spend the money on this. >> and it's okay that they're doing something different. And it's okay that you don't understand it. It's okay that it's not the way you would spend the money. I think that that's just them expressing themselves within their values and I like Ken's idea to just

Just get with it and be like this is Yeah. This is going to be fun. It's going to be different. >> And I will throw out something else cuz I've been so I know I've been so whatever you could call me plainspoken on this.

If you guys want to do something for your closest of friends, then you all go rent yourself a country club room that you can afford and you do a special fancy something or other for those people. If you really want something that's super impressive, makes you feel good.

>> Karen didn't call about them. She called about her. Right, but if if if the tables were turned and I'm just going to put me in Karen's spot, if I got was getting money from my my in-laws or my parents and they said, "Here's 20,000. We said we're going to spend it like this." And then they came to me and said, "Well, then you need to come to our party over here.

That's our country club folk." I'd be like, "I don't want to do that." >> to Karen, I'm just trying to be nice and spare your feelings.

Trust me, I get it. I really do. I understand your position. But I was just trying with a little bit of levity to go It's not as big a deal as you think.

Yeah, it's it's It's really not.

>> what I mean? No one's going to look down at you.

You raise >> about people looking down at us. You just don't want it to be Well, you said you were embarrassed. That's why I chose that language. >> As my friend would say, she calls it budge when something's like not not up to standard. I guess like low budget, like budge. You don't want it to It's a new word.

>> And it doesn't need to be glorious, just enough food and enough and enough basics. Yeah.

>> chairs You're just trying to keep like basic etiquette. Like etiquette level Exactly. is Yeah, I got it. I got it.

So, you might you might read the room a little bit and

ask questions instead of making

statements. Maybe you say, "Oh, if you do that, will there be seating for everybody? Or are you expecting Like are these standing Just ask questions.

And then maybe offer suggestions in the

form of a question. I wonder if they had a way where you could have like, you know, And just just be very light. It's just like you're like the breeze. And you mention it and you move on. You don't harp on it. Yeah, I just think get a nacho bar.

Everybody loves that. Buffet style. Get after it.

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>> [music]

>> All right, question for you folks. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? We'd love for you to take a quiz to check your progress. Now, this isn't to, you know, slap you on the hand, uh but it's a good reminder of where you are in the process, where your momentum is.

And we humans uh we need to track our progress. That's why Dave's baby steps have been so monumentally effective is because of the nature of the stages and staying with it. So, if you take our quick quiz, you can check your progress and get a personalized plan to keep you on track or get you back on track. And uh it only takes just a few minutes.

So, head to ramseysolutions.com uh or click on the link in the show notes to complete the get started assessment. That's what it's called, the get started. If you're new to the show, this is also a great thing to do as well. Now, you're you're chuckling over there.

We humans. We humans. That was funny?

It was. >> Okay, good. I like that. I like the free laugh. That's great. Let's go to Jennifer in Asheville, North Carolina.

Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for letting me come on your show and ask this. Um so, we just got our January

insurance bill. And apparently this year we or last year we made too much and we have lost our subsidy. So, we are now going to be paying triple what we did the previous year and it's going to come out to be about $29,000

a year.

So, um we're not in any debt. We've we

own our home. Everything's paid for.

But that's still a lot of money to just check I mean, we're very We're all blessed. We're a very healthy family. So, we go for our checkups and all that.

And so, we just we talked about maybe like just putting $29,000 in an account for an emergency, but then there's always like well, the what if, you know, something substantial happen and worrying about that. So, we just kind of wanted to know like if if there were other options out there because Well, did you shop it? Or did it just lapse over and then this

is what you were stuck with? >> it it lapsed over, but then we shopped within cuz we kind of wanted to stay with Blue Cross Blue Shield because I know our doctors accept that and I'm afraid of going Sure. And getting like out of network and whatnot. But even within like that was still the cheapest option for us for our family of five.

Yeah. Well, I will say

um when you are independently getting insurance, it's expensive. It is. That's just part of it. And that plus insurance

right now in general is expensive. It's gone up uh substantially. So, your

options are to try to see what else is out there. But if you've decided that Blue Cross Blue Shield is what I want because it's in our network and it has the doctors we want, then there's part of that that you may have to own.

Now, let me find out uh can this fit in

your budget? Like what does this mean for your budget? That's the biggest question. Yeah, I mean, like I said, we we own all our our homes and and our cars and everything. Um and we net about 234

between the two of us a year. So, it's >> Yeah, so you can afford it. Yes, it's just it's I just like >> a pain in the butt. >> use it. You know, and I'm I'm glad we don't use it. I'm not saying I I hope we spend all that money and make it worth our while. But it just I just it bothers me so bad that I feel like we're just flushing that money pretty much down the drain. >> Yeah, well, you're not. It It's both, right? Let's just say both sides of it.

It Our insurance system is broken, right? Healthcare system is broken. So, it's way too expensive. There is that and I agree with you on that. But then there's a part of it that insurance it it's insurance. So, it's there when you need it. And the the hope is that really that you don't really ever need it for its full value.

That's the whole point.

And that's just kind of an acceptance thing at that point is I kind of just have to accept that until I'm the point at the point of wealth where I can self-insure, I need this. And it's a

Here's what I had to do and I know that this is it's a big mind thing, but you have to train your mind to say it's a blessing that I can afford to have the insurance that I want and need versus I can't believe I have to pay this. I had to do that. It's like taxes. It's like I can't believe I have to pay these taxes, but then you go well, I'm so grateful I have the income, right?

It's that whole push and pull. I'm not saying that it's easy, but it's a good mental flip. Can what you got?

Want to mention them. They are partners of the Ramsey Show, health insurance brokers. So, what I love about them is they're going to go out and search and try to find the best deal. So, I I will make sure you get connected to them.

Christian will connect you. Make sure that you get there, but Health Trust Financial is the organization. We believe in them and I think they are worth calling so that you can shop around and let's see if you can get a better deal. Don't just assume that you're stuck. But do you know that it is going to be expensive?

Yes. Yes. Yeah, so you've got to be open to companies that are out there. Just tell them you're a Ramsey Show listener. good care of you. Great great organization.

Yeah, so and then look at your options, but I know that that's like And again, I I heard you and that's why talking to them, you're going to get to walk through all of the will we lose our doctors? Do we have to change it? I know how important that is. So, they'll take good care of you.

Okay, that's good to know. Well, thank you for reassuring me that we shouldn't just like go out cuz like I said, we've talked about just opening an account and putting the money in that, but then that scares me. So, With five kids, that's a that's a big risk.

Oh, family of five. Yeah, but still.

>> [laughter] >> Jennifer just had just had a an episode.

Five, what?

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Unless you know something I don't.

Yeah, oh no, no, no, no. No, I don't know anything. >> No, we don't know anything. >> [laughter] >> I just I and I'm not saying this to be uh scary. I'm just saying I would not do what you were saying about opening account and just putting money because Listen, if if somebody runs into you on the street and everybody's in the car, that there's medical bills. Do you see what I'm saying? And $10,000 or $20,000

in an in an in an an account is not going to help you. It's not going to cover that. Okay. So, just What is What did the signs used to say? Keep calm and pay your premium?

Keep calm and pay your premium cuz you need it. Yeah, thanks for the call. I just need somebody to talk me down off of that by the way. You're going to be okay, but again, I mean, your first call is hang up and and and call our friends Health Trust.

So, they they will they will be a good resource for you. And remember when you have situations like this, options, options, options. Find every option possible and it just kind of helps you in this emotional process cuz it's tough stuff. So, I'm so sorry about this.

We the people need to start throwing these bombs out at the election dates because this is something that Congress can fix. They can fix it. And they got to fix it. It's unbelievable. It's real real real. I mean, health health care is not a luxury.

You know what I mean? It should be just a basic kind of right that we all have access to. >> got plenty of money. So, needs to be fixed. We need reform.

All right, let's go to Matt in Washington, D.C. Matt, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. So, my wife and I are working on baby steps four, five, and six.

We're currently contributing 15% of our income to our Roth retirements, our 529s, and we're putting any extra income on our mortgage.

Um the more I listen, the more I learn about mutual funds and it being a big topic on the show. So, I was thinking of changing how we're paying off our mortgage and only making the minimum payment and opening an investment account to deposit all of our extra income in to take advantage of the mutual fund growing at a higher rate of return. And when that mutual fund would hit our mortgage payoff value, to take that to cash that out and do one lump sum payoff.

Listen, there are worse things you could do. That's for sure.

Um and I want you to hear that. I'm going to give you the answer that I I think is is the best answer, but I want

you to hear that what you're talking about is not a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, especially if your horizon for doing this is beyond five years. It's not a bad idea. The only my only caveat for this is sometimes when money

is sitting, other things come up, Ken, that might

give us a reason to pull it out. So, for instance, instance, the idea of if you have the money in your hand every month to double the payment or whatever that amount is, going ahead and putting it on your mortgage so that it's done, the action is finished, is is a good thing versus having a stack of money in a brokerage where I don't know, maybe a trip to Turks and Caicos comes up and it just sounds so so good and you're like, well, we do have the 12,000 sitting there. It it's tempting is all I'm saying.

Now, you do sound like the type of guy who would never be tempted to do to do anything, but I'm just saying. >> Yeah, we just want you to work the baby steps. The baby steps work and they avoid all of that temptation. So, don't try to rework the plan.

The plan works for so many people, but you're doing great. Appreciate the call.

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Not available in all states. >> Alrighty, today's question comes from Sarah in New Jersey. She says my spouse thinks that line items in every dollar should be a sinking fund because if we don't use the money that month, it rolls over the next month for future use.

Okay. This includes things such as utilities, insurance, food, and spending. I've tried to explain to him that some things can be a sinking fund such as HVAC replacement, vacations, or savings for a vehicle, but normally monthly bills are not. Can you explain the difference for him? Yes.

So, that question was a little in the weeds if you're just listening, but let's kind of break it down. So, when you have your budget, obviously the income's at the top and then down at the bottom in every dollar, you put all your expenses in there. That's everything from groceries to grandma's birthday, everything you could spend money on goes on in the budget. Now, there are certain things that are not just monthly expenses. There are things that have the ability to happen every once in a while, but be a

larger part of your income. Something like car maintenance, Ken, or something like if you know, yeah, your HVAC needs replacement. You can put those things on the budget and you can do something on the budget that's called a sinking fund.

It simply means that every single month you're putting aside a little in order to have a pool of money there. So, it's just like a little mini mini savings fund. So, if I know my HVAC is going to cost me $3,000, every month I can put

aside $200 on my budget and it's going to accumulate that money in a little pool for me so that it's there when I need it after a certain number of months has passed. So, it sounds like what her spouse wants to do is make a sinking

fund for every single item on the budget, which is a horrible idea because sinking funds are for things that we cannot cash flow in a single month.

That's the best way to explain it. I can In a single month, I can pay the cable bill or people don't have cable anymore.

I can pay the YouTube TV bill, right? I enjoy I enjoy cable. Okay, that's good.

Sports channels. Direct TV, you keep that. All right. >> [laughter] >> In a single month, Ken can pay his Direct TV bill. I can pay my YouTube TV bill. We don't need to set aside a little each month to pay that. That's very confusing. It creates a lot of issues. So, Sarah,

you are correct. And husband, who will remain unnamed, yes, let's let's utilize

the sinking funds for large ticket items or large ticket repairs or trips or whatever that we cannot fund in a single month or even really in two single months, right? That's what sinking funds are for. Yep, love that. All right, let's go to Al, who joins us in Washington, D.C. Al, how can we help?

Hello, thanks for taking my call. So, uh the reason I'm calling is um I'm married. I'm 31 years old. My wife is 30. Uh we've finally thinking about having our first baby this year, hopefully.

Pray to God that it happens.

Um so, with that, I've always been kind of financially savvy.

Um I've always maxed out my TSP, maxed out Roth IRA. My wife is maxing the same thing.

So, we're in pretty good shape. I'm of the mindset of since we're planning to have a kid of maybe insuring myself with either

term or whole life insurance. I'm more inclined towards life insur- whole life insurance. Um so, when I bring it up to my wife, uh she believes that um I may be jumping the gun a little bit.

Um and that's her her mindset, the way she explained it to me was we're going to be incurring to another expense. Uh the way I see it is more as an asset and you know, protection for you know, her and the baby in case something were to happen unfortunately to me. Mhm. Um so, that's that's kind of where I'm at. Um I'm able to cover all expenses of the house. She's currently a nurse.

Um so, she everything that she earns um

she uses it and then she invests it into whatever she wants.

Um so, I'm able to cover all expenses. I just want to know more uh of your what you guys um I guess uh the mindset that you guys uh uh you know, have on this. I'm trying to see if I could get, you know, insurance on on myself more so for protection and hopefully to leave something behind for my kids and grandkids one day. Well, I think that Al, your sentiment is right on.

The fact that you're thinking ahead for about your family and you're considering um life insurance is exactly right.

conversation to bring up that I want to have insurance in case, God forbid, something happens to me. [clears throat] And your wife's carrying a baby or is going to be carrying a baby. Anyway, she's in a sensitive state and that can be tough and you know, to kind of reconcile in your brain. So, I would just form it to her like this. I would say, "Listen, uh there's going to be people in my life that are dependent on my income. And if

something, God forbid, happened to my income, how would you guys live? How would you It would just give me a lot of peace if I knew that if something happened to me, you would have plenty of money. You would have, you know, and you can talk about what that amount is. I would say 10 times your income, that you would have this million dollars or whatever it is sitting there in case something happens.

That just gives me peace of mind. It's a way that I can love you guys really well. And it's not very expensive, right? If you can have that conversation with you with her, I think that she'll um understand where you're coming from.

And and that's correct. My mindset is more so So, I have a couple rental properties. I have I have I'm I've been investing to the market and all that stuff. My mindset is

uh for protection and then also how can we also make it a solid foundation for everything else when you you know, later down the >> Al, I'm I'm going to let I'm going to let Jade walk you through this, but let's be very, very clear. Whole life is actually not insurance.

Okay, it's not It's not No. No. No. I

want Jade to explain it, but you really got to understand cuz you call us and what we teach You need term life insurance at 10 times your income. That is what's going to protect your family. That's what's going to take care of your wife and kiddo if something happens to you.

So, I don't know if somebody's selling you on this, but it's not insurance.

It's a horrible financial product.

That's our position. You want term life Zander insurance. You want to call them up and have them walk you through how unbelievably affordable, by the way, term life is. But I'll let Jade take the the the the the the thing on the why here, but the we have never, ever, ever,

nor will we ever recommend whole life.

In fact, if you want to get Dave Ramsey really hacked off, you call and you ask him about whole life. You know? It just It's a bad, bad product.

I'm not going to get mad at you, Al, but I heard you say cuz I think you have the right underlying thought. I heard you say you want protection. And so, let's talk about the best way to get that. So, with whole life policy, let's pretend you're paying I don't know. Let's make round numbers. Let's pre- And And these are going to be low. Let's pretend you're paying 100 bucks a month for a whole life.

Well, part of that money is going to go to your premium.

And then part of that money is going to go in another fund that's a cash value.

Okay? And part of that money is being invested

at a very low rate of return.

And other part is going towards your death benefit that if you die, this is the money that your family gets.

Well, why split that payment when you can pay get term life insurance and just

pay for the policy. And then whatever money is left, you can invest on your own because you're into investing at a higher rate of return. So, all we're saying is why give somebody money that

they're going to invest poorly for you when you could invest it at a higher rate of return for yourself. That's part one. But part two of this, Al, is if you

die, they don't get the cash value. All that cash value that is accumulating at a very, very slow rate at of return, if you pass away and that money's sitting there, it's not going to go to your family. The insurance company's going to keep it. And the only way that you could get access to that is if you cashed out the policy, if you got to it early, and at that point you're going to have to pay a bunch of fees. So, it's not

it's not a fair product for you. It's almost like having to choose one or the other. And so, for that reason, I'd say, "Hey, just spend half the amount on term

life and invest the rest on your own." Does that make sense?

It makes sense. I understand your positions on term uh life insurance. Um I was I guess with the mindset of seeing

it as double uh two perspectives on things. So, one being protection uh and then also >> is not I Mine gives you protection, too.

So, there's no upper hand on the protections. So, you got to You got to have another argument cuz there's no upper hand on whole life for protections. >> [music] >> So, unless you have a better argument, I'm just telling you the facts. >> Jade's right. And the real argument is is the stock market's averaged 12, 11, 12% over the over the the lifetime of the stock market versus 4 and 1/2% at most on whole life. [music] >> as well park it in a HYSA at that point.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] Studio.

I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. We're excited that you're with us. 888-825-5225

is the phone number to jump in. Let's stay in our uh neighborhood here, Nashville, Tennessee. Zach is joining us now. Zach, how can we help?

Hey, Ken. Hey, Jade. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's going on?

Hey, so my wife and I, I'll try to be brief. Uh we're 32 years old. We have $177,000 in debt. Um we make about $174,000

combined. Um about 35, 40,000 of that's overtime for me. Um but we we have a tax return and a company bonus coming up that's around a $14,000 lump sum. We're trying to see if we should take that money and pay down um to to get rid of our auto loans that we have and get into something cheaper or if we should just use our car loans as a line item and take that money and start doing our debt snowball.

And also, we're [clears throat] neither of us are investing at the moment. Likely, yes, but I want to hear more.

Tell us what's the cars and tell us what's everything else.

Sure. Um so, we've got the the vehicles between myself and my wife, uh $44,000.

Mine's 21, hers is 22, roughly. Um

$81,000 in student loans. Uh we both

um are almost finished with our She finished her bachelor's degree last year and I'm finishing mine this spring.

Um and then 52,000 in consumer debt, like credit cards, line of credit, personal loans, etc.

Okay. Okay. And the personal loans,

when you break them down, what's the smallest one?

Uh we have some as small as $3,500 and

then we have others. Uh I'd say the highest is um around $10,000. >> Okay, so between 35 Okay, good to know.

Um what are the payments on these cars?

Uh so, the payment on my truck is $379

and then her Honda Pilot is $457.

Okay. And when they What did they originate at? I'm trying to see if they were ever too expensive for you. What did they originate at?

Uh so, I mean, mine was 23,500.

Um I'm I think I could I think I could sell mine. They're both used vehicles.

Uh I could sell mine for probably what it's worth. She's got about $4,000 negative equity in hers.

Okay. Um if you wanted to sell them to go faster, you 100% could. It How much is the How

much is the the bonus and the

refund? The the tax return is about $12,000 and then 2,000 is a company bonus and I just updated my W-4 to change my tax withholding cuz obviously that tax refund is a little little too much. Um you could do that. I don't I'm not going

to say you have to. They were never like

crazy outside of your range. Maybe you do one and keep the other. That's totally up to you. $14,000 though could knock out lots

of these smaller loans and I think that would give you probably free up a similar amount of money and give you a bigger boost cuz there's something about when you've got like 20 a list of 20 debts and it goes from like 20 to I don't know, 12. That feels great. So, how many of these personal loans do you think you could knock out with the 14,000?

Yeah, I know several of the credit cards

the credit cards and some of the smaller personal loans.

I think we could take probably five of those off the table.

Get us some quick wins have a little bit of margin there to start tackling the next one. I just want to make sure if you guys would maybe start that way versus cuz these aren't like crazy high payments that we're paying. Um and I commute to Nashville for work. I actually live in Cookeville, but I commute for work. So, having a reliable vehicle is helpful. If you guys said hey, get a get a beater with a heater, you know, then we would do that.

We just was curious kind of what you guys thought. So, >> Yeah, a lot of times is if you can pay off the car in two years or less and it be as part of your snowball, uh you could keep it as long as it was never too big of a chunk of your income to begin with as far as it being an item that's going down in value. At $174,000

of income, to have two $20,000 $23,000

cars is not a bad thing. It's just that you went into debt for them. So, I would do it. Uh Ken would. I probably I would too if I

were in your shoes, but I'm not saying you have to. >> Yeah, yeah, we're not telling you have to, but I I would tell you that I am of a mindset that I want to knock this

stuff out and I want to do it as fast as I can and I'm willing to suffer uh short-term so that I can win long-term.

What were I'm just curious, which way were you leaning prior to calling?

It's been a 50/50 split. Um we we've talked about getting debt-free for a while. We're long-time listeners.

Um >> What do you mean by 50/50? What do you mean?

I I think me and my wife have had discussions saying hey, let's just sell them both and and you know, use some of this $14,000 to you know, move both these vehicles and get in something cheaper. Let's buckle down. Let's do it.

And then the other half of me says, you know, I commute quite a bit, you know, an hour each way to Nashville Airport based on my job and so it's like you know, if if if I'm trying to make that commute in a vehicle that's not >> So, you know what I would do? Clear out get rid of one. Keep one and I'm with Jade. That was exactly what I was thinking. Keep the most >> Truck has the negative equity. So, what you pay the $4,000 and maybe keep my truck for reliability purposes.

>> No, no, I'd flip it. I'd flip it because you don't want to be spending money that you don't need to right now.

The neg if if you keep end up paying off the car, the negative equity is not going to matter. This isn't going to be a fun conversation, probably not a popular proposal, but again, I'm going to tell you exactly I wish Stacy were here. She'd say this is exactly what Ken would say. I would say, all right, we're going to we're not going to sell the one with the negative equity.

>> Yeah, and you're both taking one for the team just in a different way. That's exactly what I would propose. Now, I don't know how your wife's going to feel about it, but I'm calling balls and strikes right now. >> Ken, you and I are on the same page.

Hands in the center. And by the way, and and to validate I'm talking about it.

This one has done it. She and Sam when they got their story going, they went down to one car. So, I I believe in what I'm going to call shocking the body. I learned this term from a friend of mine, you know, in college.

He was like, when you start a new workout plan, you got to shock the body, right? And you just go in on a completely new routine and what he was talking about is you get the muscles all of them just like what is happening and you start to get real returns.

I believe in it.

In in most cases, I almost always am a little bit more aggressive because I believe in shocking your system to go, holy cow, we have burned the ships. We

are in on this deal. Butterfly. Yeah, so I agree with Jade. I think she's right.

I don't want you to hear me saying you have to do that.

I'm just giving you an alternative.

>> It all depends on how on board your wife is with this. Because you have to be you have to do this in a way that you're both going to be fully committed. Um and every it doesn't sound

like it, but every once in a while it's like if you go too extreme too quickly, the other spouse is too shocked and wants to wants to bail out. So, um It's a great point. You know, I agree with Ken. Okay.

Oh, she is. Okay. THEN I THINK SHE'LL she'll like this plan because it's it's the best of both worlds. You're still safe on the road. You still have one that's a hoopty. You still clear out $457 of payments. You still, you know,

you're not eating up the whole 14,000 on getting two new cars. You're only, you know, eating up maybe [music] four or five of it and you're still you're still knocking out, I don't know, four of these smaller debts. So, it's really good momentum boost. >> Massive momentum. I love that, coach Jade. I feel like you just got out the clipboard. You're drawing up a play in the timeout.

>> [laughter] >> I love that. You know, there's I'm going to tell you something. >> [music] >> Momentum, I don't care what area of your life you need momentum. When you start to experience it, when you haven't had it, woo man, it is nice.

>> Yes, it is. It can really set you free.

Hey, love the call. You guys are going to do it. We're rooting for you.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner [music] that you can trust. They're going to help advise you on best moves to make for your situation, for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes. So, go to ramseysolutions.com

/taxpro. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team.

Jesse is up next in North Carolina.

Jesse, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I am a single mother to a 10-month-old baby and I have $25,000 in debt and a low income.

So, I wanted to know how I can get ahead and plan for the future. Specifically, my goal is to be debt-free and eventually save for a home for my daughter and I. Great.

Tell us what your low income is.

I make $2,667 so $2,667 after taxes per month.

>> What do you do?

I work from home for an insurance company. Doing what?

I do customer service with providers.

Okay. And you do you need to work from home just because of the little one?

I would prefer to Yeah. Do you have family or friends that if you had to, I'm not making you commit to this, but I just want to know, is it possible that other people could watch your child?

It is possible, but not consistently.

Is the the 25,000 of debt, is that a

one-time thing that's that's done and over or is the debt accumulating because you're using a credit card to fill a gap?

I'm I don't use credit cards, but it is accumulating because of interest. It does consist of student loans, some credit card and then medical bills and personal debt. Okay. So, it even with

you paying the minimum, obviously it's been accumulating over time is what you're saying.

Yes. >> Okay. Do you have any control over your budget or do you feel like you're paycheck to paycheck and not knowing where your money's coming and going?

I've been using the EveryDollar app every month and so that's been helping

me to see where everything is going, but

I kind of just feel stuck right now. Are

you at 40 hours a week or is it below?

I'm at 40 hours a week guaranteed and I've also been working an extra 10 hours per week with the exception of holidays to work some overtime. Does that bump you up from the number that you gave us the the or is that the did that include your overtime?

So, with overtime, I can make an extra

$100 to $200 per paycheck, so that doesn't include overtime. Okay. So, we could say say two to $400 if you're getting overtime in addition.

Yes. Um Ken can speak to the the career side of this cuz I wonder if there's just and I believe there is, if there's another type of job you can do from home with your skill set that can just pay a little bit more. What's your hourly rate or are you on salary?

I am hourly. I make $21 per hour.

Yeah, the reason I went that line of direction of questions right out of the gate is um the answer to your question is and Jade will walk you through where can we cut, make sure you really got your budget in line. But you're going to need to make some more money.

You just are going to. It's going to make you you're getting out of debt. Now, here's the great news and Jade will give you more, you know, insight on this, but the 25,000 doesn't freak me out for you. However, we do need to get more income. And especially if you're going to want to save up money for a down payment on a home. So, I'd like to see you getting in that 30 $35 [snorts]

an hour. So, it's can we take and here are the questions you're going to ask and I'm going to give you some resources at the end of the call because I want to get Jade involved here real quick and let's see what we can squeeze out of our current income. But I you need to adopt the mindset that you can [snorts] make more money.

And you should make more money.

And so, now it's a question of how do you take the current experience you have in customer service and can you jump up the ladder a little bit? For instance, one thing I think you ought to be thinking about is you know, contacting a company like Belay, who's been a partner of the show for a while and involved with other events. I know their owners and they're one of the best agencies in the country for virtual executive assistants. Yes.

And so, the very nature of the job is working from home and virtual. But when you're working for an executive, you're going to make more than $21 an hour. So, if you have that kind of administrative skill set and some experience there,

that's the type of thing that you've got to open up your mind to and that would change your life dramatically if I sat you down with Jade and said, "Hey, great news, Jade. She just went from 21 an hour to 35 an hour." Changes everything.

I mean, $500 would change your world right now because there's part of this, I agree with Ken, got to get the income up. I'm guessing your budget is pretty slim as it is. Am I wrong or

Most definitely correct. You've cut it you've cut it down as far as you can go. So, there's really there's two plays here. You can do what Ken said, which is really really actively seek to find other jobs that pay more and in the meantime, do your best you do as much overtime as you can because if you can keep if you can keep your minimum payment at just the right amount, right?

If you can kind of figure out what that amount is where it's not aggressively paying the debt down, but it's also not allowing it to creep up anymore. You're kind of just keeping it at bay and staying above water. There's that's good, right? We don't want it the interest to accumulate, but I think if you can do that while looking for a higher paying job, that that's your only choice at this point because, you know, income is the magical elixir to you know, to fix this problem.

Now, if you find yourself in a position, let's just can you love doing this and it's so true. You find yourself in a position where you have either found a job or the job you're making you're able to you know, make a little bit more and you're at that point where the 25,000 isn't really accumulating, maybe it's slowly slowly going down. There is part of this where you've got a baby and you're in a season of life and sometimes there's seasonalities that will limit you and there's just a part of that that you accept and go, well, right now this is where I'm at.

Maybe when this baby goes, you know, it 4 years from now your life looks totally different.

So, both of those are things to kind of look at and accept and understand. What are your values during this season? Obviously, it's to stay home. To what extent and what does it look like for you financially? Is this a season of treading water and not going any deeper in debt or is this a season of trying to pay off debt and you get to decide that.

Um you're looking at a 4 or 5 year horizon before this kid goes to school, so that's a lot of time. So, you get to decide is this first year that I'm just focusing on the baby and then when he turns one, that's where I'm going to try to kick it into high gear. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. You've got that to play out. How how connected of a person are you? And what I mean by connected, I'm not talking about celebrities or any of that nonsense and I'm Mr. I'm Mrs. Network.

I'm saying, are you pretty connected to friends and and family group in your area where you live or are you kind of just a real small circle?

I am connected to two local churches.

>> Right. Yeah. So, you know what I Jesse, I don't know how aggressive you're being right now, but I think now's the time. I would never bet against you because you're a single mom.

I think the single toughest person on the planet is a single mom. I've always had mad respect for you. And and I think you got to really believe in yourself and go, "No, wait a second. I've got a good job." I mean, you got a good job.

>> Yes. Okay? And you found it you found that somehow. So, what must you do to find a better version of what you're doing now?

you, but I want Jade to react to it instantly just so you cuz we've not scripted this, all right? If she could make an additional two grand a month, how quickly does she get out of debt and then get through baby step three and three B. Well, with the extra money, that's 1 year. An extra 2,000 bucks a month, that's $24,000 in a year.

>> Jesse, are you picking up what she's laying down?

Yeah, I can see that. That would be amazing. >> here's the fun exercise and I love what Jade said to you. I don't want you get off this call and be stressed cuz you're doing something so important right now, which is raising a human being, okay?

And you're managing to to kind of get through, okay?

But if you could figure out how I can make an additional two grand a month, it is life changing, yes or no?

Yes. Yeah. Now, listen. This is where the connections and the the network of people come in. You go, "Hey, I've been listening to Ramsey show. I called him.

I got a plan, but I need help with the plan, all right? I know how to budget.

I'm going to get better at budgeting, but I need better professional opportunities and the right people want to help somebody like you. But this becomes your number one job outside of your regular job is to find better better work. Now, here's what I want to do to help you, okay? I'm going to give you some information.

I'm going to give you my Find the Work You're Wired to Do book that has the Get Clear Assessment in it. Take it. Let it AI spit out some great opportunities for you. Hang on the line.

Good things are coming for you, Jesse.

>> [music]

>> Hey, good folks. Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> [music]

[music]

>> On the debt-free stage in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions are Colin and Megan.

Welcome. Hello. Yeah, I guess you guys are here to do a debt-free scream. That's why they have you on that stage. Am I right? >> Yes, sir. Uh nothing gets by me. I am on

top of the details today. >> I see that. Yes, sir. Where are you guys from? Uh Destin, Florida. Oh, that's a nice place to be from.

Any chance I can hop a ride back?

Absolutely. Okay, that'd be great. I'll just tell Stacy and the kids, "I'll be back in a couple days. It's going to be great. Going to see some friends." Uh I'm kidding. Don't worry about that. Nothing to be alarmed about. All right, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off? $215,514.72.

Wow, we don't want to miss that. Okay.

And how long did that take? 23 very long months. 23 long months. And what

what did that consist of? What's the debt? All student loans. All student loans? Just you? Just me. Wow.

And that's it? You didn't have any other debt but student loans? >> No, sir. What what was that for?

Pharmacy school. A private pharmacy school. Wow. So, please tell me that means you got some income coming in.

Yes, ma'am. What was the income during this? Uh starting at around 164,000

and then ending at 254,000. Woah.

Help the math. Help me with the math.

What in the world? >> That was a lot of overtime. Like in the month of June, I I maybe had six or seven days off in totality. Like we just

we both went after it. What what were you living off? I want to know your monthly budget that just went towards you guys. That did not go towards the debt. >> [laughter] >> It was very little of ourselves. I would drive home for lunch every day. You see ramen noodles almost every day of the week for work. >> Oh my word. >> Now, is it the healthier ramen noodles or is it the stuff I ate in college? The stuff the orange packet. Merchant, the orange packet. I'll tell you what.

[clears throat] >> There would be several days I would warm up ramen noodles and drive 30 minutes to her her work and give her ramen noodles for Rice and beans was our go-to.

>> you are a good man. Oh my heart.

>> [laughter] >> I'm going to tell you something. It's true. If if Mrs. Coleman would let me eat those, I would eat those. But they are they're delicious. [laughter] >> They are. They're terrible for you.

I could pound telling you wow. So you took one for the team for 23 months you ate chicken ramen. Well, did you at least vary it the flavor a little bit?

Did you get the beef? >> bit. Yeah, all the time. Okay, good good.

>> way, what do those cuz I think this is good information for a lot of people. What do those go for now cuz back in my day in college I'm dating myself you could get 10 of those for a buck.

>> Yeah. How what's the cost of these today? >> yeah. I don't know. We shop at Aldi like completely so that's kind of a hard question. >> know how much they cost. No. Wow. So tell me I now I'm I'm entrenched now.

Tell me a day's tell me what you eat in a day. Um >> Ramen. That was the whole day. It'd [laughter] be ramen every now every now and then we'd mix it up do peanut butter sandwiches but that was it.

>> No jelly? No jelly. No, he's weird. He doesn't eat jelly on his peanut butter and jelly. I wasn't going to I wasn't going to say that but since you said it I do think it's weird. I do. It saves money too though. >> [laughter] >> What's breakfast? Just like a bowl of oatmeal just oats. Whose breakfast? I don't know her. What? Wow. This is extreme.

>> this is gazelle. >> Yeah. This is gazelle intensity. Okay, all right. So we're having fun with this but you guys really really busted it here. Okay, take us into that. What were

some of the emotions that you dealt with

during this extreme gazelle intensity flavored by ramen?

Um I would say like [snorts] frustration given so much money. Mhm. Over that like she basically worked for free cuz you know her whole paycheck was just going towards the loans. So it was that frustration of like hey all this money is really belongs to somebody else having you know, push that frustration. Yeah.

>> And for me it was really fear like I I was always afraid that I wasn't going to accomplish or we weren't going to accomplish what we set out to do. Like I don't we didn't have to do it in 23 months. We wanted to. My goal was always to pay it off before he retired from the military and so like that fear and that pressure I actually put on both of us of what if we don't actually do that?

You know, if we did it in 5 years that's great. I mean any amount of time less than 10 or the rest of our lives is better.

ago? What was the catalytic Well, I'm seeing giggles. I like where this might be going. What happened 23 months ago that decided that you guys came together and said we're going to do this? So towards the end of our pharmacy

And I'm the free spirit so I'm like we can pay a thousand dollars for the rest of our lives and get this out of our way eventually. Um And then one day being the free spirit I impulsively put us in the negatives by buying a pair of headphones. And I was like there's got to be a better way. >> [laughter] >> While she was wrapping up pharmacy school I read Total Money Makeover at Barnes & Noble.

And then I was like hey we can do this and then uh it kind of started. >> Did you say you read it at Barnes & Noble? You didn't buy it. You just went there to read it.

>> [laughter] >> I listen I thought the same thing. The dude just admitted didn't buy Dave's book just went in there and treated it like it was a library.

>> [laughter] >> raise your hand if you've done that before. >> I've done it. I've done it. I've done it. I got to admit it I love your honesty my man. Confession's good for the soul. Wow. Okay, so so you're

reading the book. All right and you're getting this in your system here. You're going okay and you're the free spirit and you come home one night and tell her hey babe I've been reading this book. Is that how this went down? Pretty much.

Yeah, yeah. I mean I was petrified. So that fear of being negative is not great. So that fear got you all in? Oh, 100%. I mean I've always been like a penny pincher and I've always you know oh god where's my next meal coming from kind of person. So like when he came to me with this yes absolutely say less.

Wow. Wow. Okay, say I I have a question.

I saw the flash the photo up and there was a whole wall and on the wall said our Y. What was under that? What what's there? >> Oh, I like that. Oh, look at it.

>> [laughter] >> So right before we started doing the journey of like paying this off I bought these thermometers on Amazon and so we broke down how many loans we had and you'll see one of them is 6250 and so every time we would pay off a loan we would color it in and so each loan or like benchmark cuz some of them are some pretty hefty loans we would have a benchmark. So like I'm going to be honest 75% of it was food motivated.

So okay, we paid off this much now let's go get some food. >> Yes. Yes. I've been [laughter] saying that. That's what I've been saying. Milestones. I'm sorry. I'm very excited.

>> I feel like I should get out of the way. There's a lot a lot of connection happening. >> [laughter] >> So >> Very good. >> Give us an example. What would you go get? Chipotle 100%. So you reward

yourself with a non-ramen meal. >> Yeah, it's it's not enough to throw you off track. It's just enough to keep you going. I like it.

>> What about dessert? Did you ever get any dessert? Can please no. It's just the benchmark.

I apologize. [laughter] I I apologize. I am just >> of spending 12 cents they get to spend a dollar and 12 cents. >> Oh, after all that ramen I would need some sugar.

That's all I'm saying. Okay, so what would you all say to people that are listening watching is the key to working the baby steps and getting out of debt? What's the key? I would say communication.

We've been married almost 15 years now. So it's kind of like building a budget for the first time actually trying to work through that. Um it can be difficult and kind of showing yourself grace too in the beginning like hey we're learning a new you know way of life. Um so trying to show yourself that grace.

I would say like the whole process has just been very therapeutic as a couple actually. Like learning I mean I've known him since I was 19 but like really learning like how he spends how he saves it's just just do it.

mean it really is hard and yes it matters how much you make but it really doesn't. It's determination and it's perseverance. Like say you want to do it write it down and do it. Boom.

I would say it flies by too like before you know it you're out of it. So you know we started this like $215,000 like this will take forever and as soon as we got on the other side I was like that actually flew by like like nothing and it feels so free now. Have you I think people really want to know this.

Yes. Yes. >> [laughter] >> This guy JUST LIKES RAMEN.

OH, THAT IS so fantastic.

Uh okay, so how old are you two?

I'll be 37 this year. And I'll be 35 in July. So now how has this changed your perspective about your future now being debt free? Oh, feels amazing.

Like I haven't I again being free being like do what you want go where you want and not have like just the freedom like hey I can move it you know a different career if I want to. I can you know whatever it may be just we have that freedom in life to just you know move forward. And it's like a level of stability that I never had growing up something that I've craved my entire life and like we we got that. We have >> see you.

stability.

Are you still in the military, sir? I am, sir. What what branch? Uh army.

Well, thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. >> All right, thank you. Absolutely. Well, there it is another young couple. Isn't it fun just to see like a complete future? You guys are going to be millionaires. You're going to have all that stability and you earned it. All right, you guys ready? Okay, here we go.

We got Colin and Megan from Destin, Florida. They paid off $215,000 and some some some some some in 23 months making $164,000 to $254,000.

Colin Megan you inspire us all. Count us

down. Let's hear your debt free scream.

THREE TWO ONE. WE'RE DEBT [screaming] FREE.

YES, YOU ARE.

>> [applause] >> BUT NOT RAMEN FREE.

>> [laughter] >> BIG DISTINCTION. >> SO FUN, isn't it? Excellent.

>> Major intensity. That they put a beautiful picture on what gazelle intensity looks like. Folks, it's worth it. You heard it from them.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together.

But without a plan you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win and our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now.

And every day the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out.

Download the EveryDollar budget app and get started right now for free.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day Romans 13

verse seven. Give to everyone what you owe them. If you owe taxes, pay taxes. If revenue then revenue. If respect >> [music] >> then respect. If honor then honor.

And our quote of the day as we celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King is from Dr.

Martin Luther King. The time is always right to do what is right.

That's good. Simple but profound. Yes.

>> had a way with words. He did. I love it.

All right, let's go to Mike in California. Mike, how can we help?

Um I've been on the Dave Ramsey program

for a while me and the wife. Um we got all of our bills paid off. We're able to buy a couple of cars cash.

Um we're at the point of wanting to pay our house off but I was married prior

and I got put in a modification cuz I was going to let the house go. So there's a $50,000 balloon payment at the

end of the loan and we're about 10 and a

half years left.

And that's just on the loan and then I have a $50,000 balloon payment. Can you

refinance out of that?

Well, the problem is I got a 2% interest. Nobody's going to touch that.

I'm saying >> I'm saying? So Go ahead. You can't refinance that loan.

You can't call up Churchill and say, "Hey, I need to refinance this thing." Yeah, but it's going to make the payment go up and right now I only have 10 years 10 and a half years left besides the balloon. I don't know if I should just start hitting the balloon payment. You know, every month we start because I can start paying on it it's interest-free the balloon payment.

There's no interest on it.

Should I start trying to hit that thing?

Or I mean I thought about refinancing the loan which I would love to because my ex-wife's name is on the loan.

>> And an even better reason. Yeah. Yeah, I know. She's She's not on the deed though. She's That's my new wife is all we've already she's signed the house over to me all that but the loan you know, is is the issue.

>> If I If I can understand this and I I you got me when you hit when you mentioned balloon my mind zoomed out. So there might be more details that you want to fill me in on later but from what I hear is an old house that I had with an ex-wife that I'm living in now with my new wife that has a balloon payment that's going to be due a $50,000 and even though it has a fine interest rate of 2.5 or 2 per I don't remember what you said 2% now.

>> 2% 2% yeah.

For me there's this is not good. In my mind I go if I'm your new wife I don't want to live in your ex-wife's house and I certainly don't want to live in it with a balloon payment at the end that we're going to be due for in the next however long. That's where my brain sits.

Why would you not and and it's got your ex-wife's name on it? So why would you not either sell this house?

I would sell it now that I see that your ex-wife is even on it because it's not fair for her to be attached to that either. Do you want to know why? Why? Because my my new wife loves the house.

Oh boy. She doesn't But your ex-wife is on it. I know and >> And that's not fair to her that I know it ain't. I agree with you 100%.

>> got it it doesn't At that point it doesn't matter.

At that point it doesn't matter if you love the house. There's plenty of houses out there she can love but your financial life is going to be tied to your ex-wife for life if you keep this home for life. That's not fair to her.

No no no no once the house is paid if we pay it off in 10 years she'll be gone.

>> 10 years is a long time my guy. That's a long time to be tied in.

Yeah, but if we if we do if we leave now

and try to buy another house our payment our payment's only $1,400 a month.

>> I know that. I understand that.

>> So if I if I do this our payment's going to go over double if not higher and then I'm going to have Yeah, I'm going to have to get a second job in order to pay for it. >> No, that's not true. So here's here's what's true. I'm going to I'm going to lay out what's true and then we'll talk about it. We could talk it The truth is you're divorced from her. That's true.

Oh yeah, that's a truth. >> That's a truth and you're remarried.

That's true. Other thing that's true is your finances should not be connected to

your ex-wife for any longer than necessary. Fair enough? Yep. What's also

true is there is a $50,000 balloon payment here.

Yep. Okay, these are all truths what we'll call in in in the con category.

The only pro is your wife likes the house and there's a 2% mortgage. That's really the only pro.

So there's part of this that you have to accept because of the divorce

and I'm not saying it's it's wrong or right. I'm just saying because of the divorce your housing situation is going

to change.

And I think you just have to accept that. You can't keep it as it was because a major thing has been upended

and so there's change there and to say, "Hey, well we can pay it off in 10 years." and to have that link to her for 10 years is unfair.

It's to everybody.

Do you see what I'm saying? Because if something happen if anything happens that changes in your life that causes you to not be able to afford this house that causes that balloon to be a issue it's going to affect her majorly. Well, it's also going to affect you, Mike.

Like you're talking about getting another job all these things and the only thing by the way I'm I'm just letting Jade roll here. This is fantastic. I but I agree with her by the way. I agree with her. So I'm going to take what Jade said and I'm going to put this back to you and go after hearing everything Jade said which by the way I heard you categorically go I agree. I agree. I agree.

If I'm hearing you and I'm hearing Jade and I am the only reason you're considering this is because your current wife likes this house.

Yep. And it's in our budget as far as being able to afford >> Well, but she already knocked that one down. >> live the way we want to live like Well, but no you can live in other places. No no no no she knocked that down. You can live in other places. The idea that this is the only place where you can live within affordability is a myth.

>> And it's not affordability. You have a $50,000 balloon.

>> Yeah, it's not affordable. And it requires you to get another job just to afford it. So you've created It's like after all that you're still stuck in this this thing and I guess what I'm trying to help you see as a friend, Mike is I think this is because you would rather be miserable than be uncomf- No no you didn't let me finish. You'd rather be miserable instead of be uncomfortable in telling your wife, "We're getting out of this. We're changing our life." You don't want to have to tell her that.

Tell me if I'm wrong. >> No, honestly we No, you're wrong because

we Here's what our our plan what we wanted.

We wanted to sell this house and me us to retire up by Cambria up in northern

county. You know where Cambria is? >> Sure. I don't know if you Up up north.

So we Yeah, up north. So we cuz we love

it up there. That's She loves it but you know, her daughter's here with the grandbaby. Her son lives here. So those

things are in factor. My two kids are out of state. I got four grandchildren with them. >> So did your wife did your wife change her mind completely on the move up north?

No, we The reason why we decided maybe

not is because of family and stuff. You know, like being close How far How far I

I totally get that. Never going to dismiss that but how far away are we talking about?

Uh it's probably 5 and 1/2 6-hour drive.

And that still has no bearing on whether or not cuz it's like okay >> I'm trying to make get it in the mix to go that's why you should should sell this house cuz they already had another plan. I mean but even if you've decided that's no longer the plan if it is or it isn't. I know. I'm trying to make this hard decision easier.

I'm with Jade on this. >> know what? She's the one that got me in on the Dave Ramsey thing because I was the opposite. >> Okay.

>> When it came to bills I wanted to if we didn't have it let's go get it. I want to enjoy life but when I met this woman here she turned me around.

>> in my mind Tell her you called us today and we said no to the balloon payment. I just think you're you're on a you're on a tightrope without a net. Uh you you're just walking this thing and you're hoping you get to the other side. It's a 10-year journey with a $50,000 barricade

in the middle. >> extra job for you. >> And an ex-wife yapping yapping about

having this debt around her neck. I don't I don't I don't hear hear her from her ever. I don't Yeah, no I mean I haven't for years. We've been married for 10 years going on 10 years now. You can do what you want to do, Mike. >> have spoken and you you said your [laughter] wife introduced you to us and now you called us.

You do what you want to do, brother but enjoy that second job, man. Enjoy that and that stress.

Well, I hate to do that to him but that's the facts. That's how we see it.

Hey folks, remember this there's ultimately only one way to financial peace [music] and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 270. You Don’t Have To Live One Emergency Away From Broke | September 5, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

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[Music] Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. If you want to get involved in the conversation about your life and your money, it's easy to do that. The number is88255225

and we'll get you on the line. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney chopping it up with you for the next couple hours. Let's go to the phone lines where we have Lee who's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Lee, what's going on? How can we help?

>> Hi, I'm so excited. This is a happy day so I can get to talk to you guys. So, recently, um, my husband left, uh, four

weeks ago today. And the reason why he left is because I had found out that he took there was a back in 2021, he never

paid a debt. And I went to go get renovations on my house and found out that there was a lean against my home

and it was in his name. So this was 2021. So since then, in December, I paid

that lean off with a heliloc loan

because I didn't want it to go against my house. He was on the deed. Okay.

>> Since then, I have found out majorly.

Sorry. >> It's okay.

>> Stuff that he's done. So, he got caught

and I guess he may be getting garnished wages.

>> Because he left after I gave him a few choice words and I found out that he had changed his address and that the state was coming after him from our 2024 IRS

that we filed together. That was the only year. >> Okay. and he they took his half and then he took mine. So I am drowning here

>> because he left he has not he held his responsibility any of the debt. So in

North Carolina they can take your 401k they can take your half of your house.

>> Okay. So >> but I have worked >> Oh go ahead. Go ahead hun. Go ahead.

>> So I for eight years I have worked my

tail off for my 401k where I put it in a

Roth. So, I'm gaining like $3,000

a month. I'm 59 years old.

>> Okay. So, let let me back up. Let me back up here. Okay.

>> Help me help me understand your the

situation in your marriage. Are y'all are y'all still married?

>> Yes, but he left and I will not. It's It's done. It's a done deal. >> Okay. So, have you have you met with an attorney yet? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. So he y'all have separate houses

or he put your house up as collateral on

some loans. Has he just been running around running up debts and doing all kind of wild stuff? Okay.

>> Well, so what happened was um when we got married, which we should have been a red flag, I had good credit, so I put the house mortgage. He's on the deed.

>> So the mortgage in your name?

>> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes. So when they come after him

>> Mhm. >> they put a lean on my house, which I couldn't stand that. So, I took care of that. >> Okay. You took the heliloc. How much was it, >> Lee? >> Um, it would have started out at 21,000, but he disregarded it. It was 27,000.

>> So, the helock was 27,000.

>> And I had to pay two more loans off that I did when he wasn't working.

>> And what were those?

>> Those were um it was total 48,000.

>> So, 48,000 of personal loans.

>> Two. Um, it was the Yes, the heliloc total 48. 27 was his lane and then the

other two were loans that I took out because he's not been stable working.

>> Okay. So, here here's what we need to do. I want you to hear what Jade is doing. Okay. You have several things going on at once. One, you're really upset with yourself.

>> Yes. >> The second thing is you've been completely taken advantage of by a

dishonest not good man.

>> And number three, you have a big financial mess. And so what we don't want to do is let your the shame you feel right now and the anger you feel right now towards the people involved

cloud the judgment of we have a math problem that we got to solve ASAP and that's what Jade's walking through with you. Okay. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.

>> So I just want to clarify the numbers.

Is it 75,000 total which would be 70

which would be 27 of a heliloc and 48 of personal loans or was the 27 part of the 48? part of the 48.

>> Okay. So, it's 48,000 total.

>> Okay. So, and that's the only debt to

speak of or is there other things? Are there cars? Are there other things that you guys are involved in together and separately moneywise? >> Um, to get Yes, there is. Um, tell me about those. Since he since he left, I had to use my credit card >> to get my attorney fee >> for 4,700 and then I had to use some of

it to live on um because he just went

drastically. I have $14,000 on a car

loan that I have >> before you go to the car. You told me that you had 47 from attorney's fees and then you said you were also living on it. So tell me the total amount of credit card debt.

>> Um right now it's 5400.

>> 5,400. Okay, great. And then there's

14,000 of car debt.

>> Yep. Anything else?

>> And then the heliloc and then a home which is 137,000.

>> Okay. 137 is what you owe on the mortgage. Okay. Yeah. >> So, here's the thing. You've already started and and John will probably talk to you a little bit more about this. You've already started the process of getting a lawyer. You're getting a divorce. Okay. That's happening. How long were you married?

>> Um, we were married 9 years total, 11

years together. >> Okay. Nine years. So, there's a good chance that a lot of this is going to be split up and you're not going to be left holding the bag on this. Okay. So I in

many ways you kind of have to push pause on whatever your steps forward are because we don't know what the courts is going to say about this. Now what you can do today is yeah now is the time to separate your finances. You have your own account. You guys are no longer sharing anything.

The good news is his name is not on the on the mortgage. So probably you'll end up figuring out some situation where you keep the house and maybe you have to cash out his amount if that even works out that way. But there's a lot up in the air because of this money and how it's going to be divided.

Are you working?

>> Yes. Yes, I do have a good job.

>> Okay. What do you earn?

>> Um 80,000.

>> Excellent. And what do you do for work?

>> I'm a property manager.

>> Okay, great. So you've got 80,000. When you take home your paycheck, how much is it every month?

>> Um, now that I backed off on my 401k, um, it's 19 20 about 2000. It'll be

about 2100 next check.

>> Every two weeks. So, you're $4,200 a month. Great. And are you using an every dollar budget? Cuz that's going to give you a lot of peace right now.

>> No, I'm not. >> Okay. Before you hang up the line, we're going to get you with a budget because what you need to know today is that Lee

can take care of herself each and every month. We're putting the debt on the shelf right now because nobody knows what will be with that until we come out of court. But on 4,200, can you pay uh

your mortgage? What how much is your mortgage every month? >> Oh, thank goodness. The mortgage is um only,79 in the equity line. But see, I have one question. The 27,000 he acrewed that the month before we got

married, but I'm paying for it. He's not giving me anything. >> I understand, Lee, but we don't John and I don't get to decide how that money, how that debt is split up. Only >> pay the minimum and keep it from getting any higher. Pay the minimum balance.

>> Okay. >> And then when you go to court, your attorney should use that in his quiver or her quiver to help protect you.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It just it's Yeah, I get it. And thank you so much. That helps me a lot.

>> There's so much anger and frustration and shame and rage all wrapped up here.

And you got to deal with a math problem ahead of you. >> Uh-huh. And so for you, yeah, knowing that you have the piece of being able to pay your mortgage. You can cover your four walls, your food, your utilities, your transportation. You have the money to do that. And like John said, pay minimums on everything else. Do not try to pay these debts off. Wait until your court battle so that this can be settled in court. >> And don't take out any more debt.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Dean is in Reno, Nevada. What's going on, Dean? How can we help today?

Hi guys. Thank you for having me.

>> Yeah, you bet.

>> What's up? >> I was uh I was calling because I had a question. I have two properties. Um I'm

29 years old. I have two properties in

uh Bosezeman, Montana, and I have one of

the homes has about 260,000 in equity. I

am 125,000 in debt and I'm trying to

decide what the best route is here. Whether I sell and cash out, become debtree

and invest the rest of that money or if

I hold that house for more long-term gains because that was the original plan.

>> Okay. Um, let me run the numbers out in

a way that I can see them on paper. So, the first property, tell me what you owe on it and tell me what it's worth and what you think you'll pull from the sale on property number one.

>> So, property one, uh, I owe 188,000

and it's worth about 4, it's worth between 450 to about 470.

>> Mhm. >> Um, so we can just say 450 on that. That would be 260,000.

>> Okay. That's the one. Okay. That's the first one you spoke about. Okay. And then tell me about property number two.

What do you owe on it?

>> Property number two is a joint property

with my girlfriend. That one is

uh we paid Oh, I'm sorry. We owe

430,000.

>> Mhm. >> And it's worth about

maybe five five if we're lucky. We just put it on the market, but it didn't it didn't go for what we were asking and we weren't we were going to lose our butts on it. So, we decided to pull out of that and just keep it rented.

>> Okay. So, you're renting that one now.

Is it losing money? Is it breaking even?

Tell me about the rental situation.

>> So, we bought that at the peak of the market. That one is breaking even. The

mortgage on it is $3,9 a month. We're charging 3,000 for rent.

>> Got it. The other property is >> Hold on. You're actually losing money on that then.

>> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Cuz that doesn't there's no there's no upkeep. There's no emergency fund.

There's no roof needs to be replaced.

You're just barely you're treading water on that one.

>> Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir.

>> So, now that we kind of see the the picture here, one's got 260 of equity, one's got I don't know, maybe after fees

50 of equity. Is that fair enough?

I would say less than that. Probably around 20 to 30.

>> Okay. 20 to 30. So, >> I mean, we're in at 30,000 with the remodel. >> So, in in total, you've got about 2,000.

You're sitting on about 280 of equity.

>> Uh yeah, that's fair.

>> Okay. Uh now, in the beginning, you said I'm 125,000 in debt. Tell me about that.

>> So, on the first house, well, I I

consumer debt because clearly you're in more debt than that. So, were you talking about consumer debt?

>> Yeah. So, the first house I pulled a heliloc on it and that was 50 for 55,000

and I still owe 54,000 on it. Um,

>> and when you when you quoted me the numbers, was that including the 55k when you told me you owe 188 on it?

>> No. No. I I I was keeping that separate

consumer. So, separate 55,000 in a heliloc. What else?

>> And then 20,000. I did a uh the debt

arbitrator. So, there's 20,000 in a debt arbitrator loan. >> Okay. >> Um and then I have So, my dad, he gifted me

50,000 for the first house purchase, but

that's been a huge problem. And I've listened to the show a lot, so I feel very guilty. So you got to give dad back 50,000 when I did >> I mean it was never discussed under that but it's created problem

getting it back. >> Okay. So that's that's the that's the 125. Okay. So this is pretty simple I

think. Um I think you need to sell both of these properties. Where are you living? Where do you live?

>> Uh currently it's messy. I my girlfriend

and I we have a son together and we are

working hard to try to figure things out right now. >> I know. But where do you live? >> So I'm back I I'm back currently with my father. >> Okay. >> So you're living with dad. Are you paying are you paying any rent?

Basically I'm trying to find out if you have living expenses.

>> Yeah. So my living I do pay rent. My living expenses total about 3500 a

month. >> Okay. And what's your income? >> Um >> 3500 a month.

Yeah, because of >> you feel like that's high >> and >> Oh, child support and all that. Okay.

>> All right. You're right. You're right. >> What's your income for this 3,500 a month expenses? >> It's it's roughly 8,400

or 84,000 a year, but I'm starting a new job September 22nd. That'll push me to

100 to 120,000. Great.

>> Depending on overtime.

>> So, here's here's the problem. That's not the problem. The problem is not your money, okay? Because it's really easy for you to go ahead and sell these properties, kick out this HELOC, pay back your dad, get out this loan arbitrator. Uh you make plenty of money to support your $3,500 of expenses every month. The problem here is choices. Um

and John can talk to you about that because you've you're just creating a life of chaos. You're going out and getting properties you can't afford and then you're buying them with your girlfriend and then you're having a baby with somebody that you're not fully in a committed rel like you're doing things that's just creating drama and that's

really where the problem is. >> Yeah. And you know that right?

>> Absolutely. And I I don't know if this is necessary to mention but I I just got sober. >> I'm proud of >> and that was a very big struggle.

>> How how far along are you?

I'm coming up to two months.

>> You're about to get 60-day chip.

>> I Well, I'm not an AA. I'm just doing this by myself. >> All right. Today, you go to a first meeting. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Yes. All right. Good. How old are you, brother?

>> I'm uh 29. >> 29. All right. Here's the deal, dude.

you're about to cross a threshold today and if you go to your first meeting today and you call a a a realer and you can go to ramseyolutions.com and find a trusted realer in your area and say, "I'm going to put both these properties up today and you make a financial plan within 90

days to get out of your dad's house and get your own place. Even if it's a one-bedroom apartment, you're going to cross that threshold at 30 sober. You

don't owe anybody any money. You make six figures and you can begin to wrap your head around becoming the dad that you didn't have and the dad that you

want to be and you and your girlfriend can work on your relationship and if if it's worth investing in. You go get a marriage counselor and see if we're going to make this a run of this thing or not or whatever. But I want you to hear you're underwater and you can you it feels like you can't see and you got all this debt here and you're trying to do this. You owe this guy money.

totally free from substances, from the demons, from the identity crisis, and

from the money. Do you see how close you are to the edge?

>> Yes, sir. >> You're right there, man. You are right there. You've got all the tools and you're making six figures, which tells me um if you've been able to do that with all the chaos in your life.

>> Yep. Yep. Bro, when you get these chains off you, you're going to you're going to be at $250,000 in the next 24 months.

>> Unstoppable.

>> You're right there. But I will tell you this. It's my promise to you. You cannot white knuckle this.

>> Yeah, it's been tough. >> I know. You got to walk through the doors of a meeting and sit down and say,

"Hey, my name is my name is my name is

Dean and I'm struggling."

That's today. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And I promise there'll be a meeting in your area.

Game on, brother. Day one. It's day 30 or day 60, but we're going to give you day one today. I'm proud of you, man.

Proud of you. And Jade, I love what you said. It's not the money.

>> It's not the money. He's making money.

He's a smart guy. He can clear this debt literally the moment these houses sell.

But he's so smart that he fell for

>> you're stupid if you don't have rental properties and this false truth called passive income and you're stupid if you don't have this and you're stupid if you don't have that. >> And then you wake up and you're almost 30 and you're struggling with substance and you live with your dad >> and it's about doing the next right wise thing.

[Music]

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[Music]

Listen, when you're tackling debt or building wealth, people can often forget about one important step to reaching their goals. Insurance. Duh. Having the

right coverage as opposed to too little or too much can really impact how long it takes to accomplish those goals.

Skimping out on insurance might seem like saving money, but trust me, when life happens, it's easy to fall back into debt without a safety net. The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet when disaster strikes. And in some cases, it can even save you money uh if you're paying too much for insurance or if you got bogus insurance like like the cell phone insurance or like warranty insurance, that sort of deal. So, how do you know if you have the right coverage?

Take the coverage checkup. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation.

It makes an over It makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand and gives you very clear next steps. So, go to ramseyolutions.com/checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. I love talking about this, John. I I've told you before when Sam and I used to rattle through life with no insurance, just just living on the edge like aerosmith with with nothing. >> You're crazy. >> And then my husband broke his finger and I was like, "Listen, head on over there to CVS.

>> We're doing this. >> Get you some tape, bro." Like, that's all we have. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You need insurance. It's important. All right. Amy is in Wisconsin. Amy, how can we help today?

>> Um, so I'm wondering how how can I

nicely tell my fiance that his parents' financial

shortcomings aren't his job to solve.

>> Oo,

>> I'm looking at John. >> Yeah. I I mean my first answer would be

just to read back what I mean to say back what you just said to sit down and say, "Hey honey, your your parents' financial challenges aren't yours to solve." I'm assuming that you've tried that in 1700 other iterations of that.

And so I think the deeper question is less about you asking him.

>> It's you asking yourself, do I want to here at the doorstep? Do I want to be married to somebody who will put his parents' financial shortcomings ahead of

the family that we are about to start co-creating together? That's the real question here.

>> All right. I I just I mean I understand

some of it some of it but like it's at

some point we were paying their mortgage and you know >> tell us how the conversation goes when you say what John said which is honey

dear I I I can't live like this your

parents their struggles they're not your fault we can't solve them we've got to solve our own for our own financial peace what does that conversation look like and what does he do.

>> It's usually I mean it never really ends in a fight or anything like that, but it's it's usually like they're still my parents. I don't want to see them fail.

And I mean, I get that. I do. But like

at what point is it at what point do you let them learn for them theirelves?

>> Yeah. Listen, you're right. You are correct. So, you don't have to convince us that there's a point. He's beyond the point. Um, my question is, is he an only

child? Is there some sort of um hardship

that's caused them to have financial struggles? Or is it truly just misbehavior with money? And he's the responsible sibling and feels like he's the hero.

>> He's the oldest of four. And no, there

isn't really anything that's causing them to lose money. It's like they have

>> a bunch of pets and they can't pay their light bills, so they go out and get a dog, you know? >> Yeah. >> Like >> Yeah. >> But but you got to you have you have to metabolize that the bigger issue here is not your parent, not your future in-laws

financial situation. It's that you sat down with your fiance and say said, "Hey, this is a big deal to me and your choices are impacting our life together." And he said, "Nah, I don't care. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing." That to me is the bigger issue here. It's >> a big deal.

>> And by the way, this will show up again when you'll get married. This will show up again when you'll buy a house. This will show up again when you'll start having kids. this kind of indifference to you saying, "Hey, this is really important to me." And him going, "Yeah, I don't care." That's going to keep showing up and you have to ask yourself, "Am I going to sign up for this for the rest of my life?" >> That listen, what John is saying is so true, Amy, I'll tell you, um, a piece of advice that my mom gave me when I got married.

She said, "The behavior you allow now is the behavior you'll allow for the rest of your marriage." And so it was basically saying if I let this slide now to John's point, I'm going to keep seeing this type of behavior play out play out because I've allowed it and I said this is okay and people treat you the way you allow them to treat you. So if you say it's okay, then it is okay.

hot take. I would not marry this person

until we have figured out how to solve this and I have seen how he enters into and solves conflict. >> Absolutely. And by the way, neither Jade nor I are against supporting parents at all, but I want to do it in the right order. I want to put our oxygen mask on first and make sure, as for me and my house, we've got our four walls taken care of. We are able to financially

support somebody else. And my guess is that y'all are struggling too financially. Do y'all live together?

>> We do. We actually we got engaged and then recently after found out that we were pregnant. >> Okay. So, um, y'all are have your own

financial challenges ahead of you and you're concerned that he's putting money in their account and they're being irresponsible. It's not even a matter of them like struggling with poverty or health issues. They're just making bad choices, right?

Jade is so right. You have to have the deeper, harder conversation because right now your fiance's parents

financial situation, that's just the proxy war. That's not the real issue.

>> The real issue is you said, "Hey, this matters to me." And he said, "Yeah, I don't care." >> Or they're more important than you.

>> And in many ways, he's now also continuing that same chain of bad financial behavior and making bad financial choices, right? >> Because choosing to pay for something that's neither your responsibility or

priority instead of what actually is.

Yeah. That that's how you get in the situation that the in-laws are in. So, he's starting to repeat that behavior, which is a red flag.

All right. All right. So, >> let me say this. You're not crazy.

>> Okay. You're not crazy.

>> And by the way, this isn't the only thing. He disregards what you want or feel, is it?

>> No. >> No.

These kind of things don't happen in a vacuum. People don't work together and they're not aligned on vision and goals and values and priorities. And then there's one weird thing over here. That's just not how people operate. And so you have to be honest with yourself.

And by the way, you're in his life forever because y'all created a human together, right? So there's going to be some peacemaking here.

>> But it's not too late to not bind this

thing together legally and get into a big a bigger mess, if you will. Y'all are already connected forever. But I want you to be honest about the state of your relationship and how he dedicates

his life to service to you and vice versa or how he is just dragging you along through whatever he gets good and ready to do in the world.

>> All right. So, so I guess um

do I stop asking nicely at this point?

Do I just say, "Hey, dude, get your head out of your butt." my >> it it I think it's it's when you enter into those conversations with you with the word you why you when you start those conversations with the word you first you're you're starting a fight you're declaring war and he's going to defend himself what's more important here is for you to come up with your or what statement I am going to fill in the blank I will

not be married to somebody who puts other people's priorities ahead of ours

will not marry somebody who doesn't care

what I want or what I feel or what I want to co-create. I will not engage in.

And so it's not about you need to get your head out of your butt. It is gently and firmly and in full control. I will

not fill in the blank or I'm going to

fill in the blank. That's the declaration. And then he gets to decide does he want to be a part of this thing or not.

Tough stuff, John. Tough stuff. We're

rooting for you, Amy.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

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Remember, may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Veronica, Miss Veronica Vaughn in California. She writes, "My husband and I are less than a year away from being debt-free. We are self-employed and have been married for 28 years. My husband is a hustler who works seven days a week. I'm worried that when there's no more debt, he won't be as motivated." As he's leaving the house in the morning, he'll often ask me, "How much do I need to make today?

How do we continue the hustle when we get to the investing saving part and we quote unquote don't need the money?

>> I love this question. I like this question a lot. Um, so I see what you're

saying, Veronica, about you're wondering if he's going to lose like take his foot off the gas or like lose motivation, but

I think it's actually the opposite. Um,

so let me kind of explain that. I think John that when you are in debt, debt

rules all. It is the driver of everything. >> Working all day for that guy's money.

>> Yeah. I mean, but it's it it you're right. It is a driver. I've got to make money so that and the so that is so that I can pay off debt. So that I can keep making more payments. Right. So your mind in many ways is very limited to that thing when the debt is gone. In

many ways, it's like, you know, when you've been wearing a pair of tight jeans all day or like a tight you finally or you get home, you take your wig off, you're like, "Oh, I can breathe. Like, I can finally just be comfortable and I can look and see other opportunities and other things. It's not just, you know, tunnel vision goggles on my debt." And so, there's part of this that yeah, when you're out of debt, things will change, priorities will change.

You start to look at other things that might have been that might be important to you that you never could have even thought about before. So, I do think you might see a shift, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. It really is. Um, you know, Dave Ramsey,

John says all the time, uh, when he's talking to small businesses, he's like, "Yeah, move at the speed of cash." Because when you have debt, it changes the decisions that you make. It changes the spirit in which you do things because there is a lot tied to debt.

Now, you've created this pressure in your life, right, to pay the debt. And it's the same thing in personal life.

When that pressure to pay that debt is gone, yeah, you can look up and go, you know what? We see it all the time on the show. I want to be a stay-at-home mom.

You know, or you look up and go, you know what? We thought that what we really wanted was to buy a bunch of new cars right after the debt was gone. But really what we want is to just enjoy life. And suddenly maybe you don't want to take a vacation. Maybe you just want to sit at home and enjoy your home, right? There's so many things that shift and change because that barrier that was on your heart and mind is just gone. So I would say let's see what happens.

Let's not make it a problem or let's talk about it now. >> Yeah, we need to talk about it now. That's good. But you won't know. >> You won't know. But also I

>> your husband needs to stop working seven days a week and hustling when you don't own have any debt. Veronica saying if you're already hating on him in the future like he's not going to want to work seven days a week. No, he shouldn't. Y'all are running from your live for for your lives right now.

>> And so what what is it always? Um we're

going to shift to being intentional with this, right? And but

I think there's a man there's such a

problem in modern it's probably all marriages but modern marriages which is

I need to have a conversation. I imagine

a future where this thing happens and then you're going to do a thing and I start getting mad at you about the thing or frustrated with you about the thing that hasn't even happened yet that I don't even have proof is going to happen. So just >> have the conversation now >> and not with >> are you going to be dismotivated? We don't owe any money. Not that way, but hey, we're getting really close to being out of debt.

What does our life want to look like then? Like you were talking about like what do we want this thing to look like? >> And he probably is going to say, >> I'm tired of working 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I want to exhale.

that money on me and us." And y'all need to have that hard conversation.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> This sounds like a >> it's an imagination, >> but it's it's a it's a it's an imaginary

character assassination. You know what I mean? >> It's very close to contempt. It's very close to like I'm up here and I work really hard and I'm afraid he is just going to stop.

>> It's almost like have you ever had a dream about your spouse doing something?

>> Oh. And you wake up >> and you wake up mad and you're kind of like playing it out and they're like >> I walked in the kitchen and multiple times to get a cup of coffee and I can feel my wife's mad. I'm like, "What happened?" And she's like, "You know what you did in that dream." I'm like, "What?" >> And she'll say, "I know it's irrational, but I'm still mad." Yeah.

even see if it's real or not. So, yeah, John, I agree. Have the conversation and yeah, there's going to be a lot of unknowns. That's okay. But at least say what you're thinking, which is, you know, how do you think you're going to feel when we're out of debt? You don't have to say it in an accusatory way.

>> Or what do you want to what what do we think our work life is going to look like? What do we think this small business is going to look like? This self-employed business. What are we what are we like whatever? And if you've been hanging on to something for almost three decades of marriage, because I'm also seeing how many wives would love for

their husband to turn around as they're leaving the house and say, "How much money you want me to make today?" >> Okay. >> And she goes, "This much." He's like, "I'm on it. Got it." Right. >> Yeah.

>> It might be that he thinks he's loving you every morning, Veronica. And if you tell him, "Hey, when you ask that question, it kind of freaks me out. It makes me think you're trying to do the bare minimum." And he might say, "No, no, no. I'm trying to >> I'm trying to show you that I'm all in for it." Like, it's how might he might the only way that he can earn her like respect and love respect is yeah >> because he's working seven days a week and I don't seem to be getting it.

Yeah. Yeah. >> But yes, I found to your point, I found

myself I worked really hard to get out of debt and I thought peace would be

taking my foot off the gas and it was actually an opposite once I realized, oh, now I can earn money >> forward, not just paying some other guy that I already took it from. I wanted to work so much more because I realized, oh, I I can do it and it's going to be mine. It's going to be ours. And so that changed my whole >> the whole trajectory there.

>> Oh, good stuff. All right. Thanks for the question. Really, really good.

Let's go to the phone lines. We got Brett who's in Maine. Hey, Brett.

How can we help today?

>> Hi. Good afternoon. Hope both are doing good. Um, my question for you is so I have been dating this girl for a little bit now and we both kind of came into this with the idea like we are dating

for intentions to marry. >> Yeah. >> And I'm very much a planner. And so I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are for um budgeting for an engagement ring

and where the best source of cuz I I

have pulled the money in different spots like where the best source whether it's drawing from investment accounts or if

it's better just to start saving up and so you don't have to hamper or touch the investments at all kind of what the best route to go for that. >> Yeah, excellent question. I listen congrats on the successful relationship.

I 100% would not pull the money out of any investment accounts. Like those are plugged in for a reason. They're there to build wealth for the future. So don't rob yourself by draining those accounts.

Plus, you don't want to get hit with fees and taxes, right? It sounds like this is something that you can cash flow over time and just save up for uh what

you're looking for. You know, we would say 30 days, you know, 30 days of work is probably a good place to start. Um, some people might argue that and say it needs to be a little more or some people might say it needs to be a little less.

At this point, it really is about what you I mean, obviously you want to get a ring that you think she's gonna like and you know that sort of thing. But it's pretty simple. Save up 30 days worth.

What do you say, John?

>> What >> I say? Don't call strangers on a podcast and ask them this question. Like, save

up what you think the ring is is is a good amount. I mean, we've I've taken calls on the show where it's like, "Hey, I'm spending $25,000." And my personal I was like, "You're an idiot." And Dave was like, "No, he's not." And so, >> everybody's different on this deal. And so, it's what you can afford, you pay cash for. >> What is it like it's two months salary?

No, it's not. But it might be one month, it might be four months salary. It just depends. It depends. And some of you guys can go put a quarter in one of those little turny things in front of the pizza parlor. And >> please don't do that.

Whatever. You do you, boo. Just pay cash.

>> That's it. Oh, that does it for this hour of the show. Keep on listening. We got more coming at you.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Normal is broke. Con common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, taking calls about your life, your money for the next couple hours.88255225 is the number that gets you on the line.

Let's go to the phone lines. We got Darby in Nebraska. What's up, Darby?

>> Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

>> No problem. How can we help?

>> So, I have a unique situation.

>> Let it rip. >> Um, so

I was a stay-at-home mom. I'm sorry.

>> No, you're good.

Um, I've been a stay-at-home mom for the last seven years. Um, we found some

issues with the current home that we're renting. There's nowhere else to rent in

our area, even towns 20, 30 miles away.

So, we saved up money. We are in the middle of building a house.

And I I went and got a job about four

months ago.

to just give us some extra cushion. We have no debt. Um but I have lost several

child care options due to my son's

um unique medical condition, I guess you would call it.

And um we don't know what to do.

>> What what's his medical condition?

What's his challenge?

Um, so we moved into this house when he was one. He just he just turned five. Um,

last December. He he was like so

non-verbal. I was like, "Is he autistic?" Um, they did a random blood test and found out he has extremely high

lead levels.

>> And it's in the dirt around the home that we live in. And he's a boy. He eats

dirt. >> Didn't think anything of it.

>> So, yeah, his lead levels were through the roof. I did a detox with him. He has

finally started talking, but he's only been talking for the last oh, 6 months

or so. >> Mhm. >> So, he's he's pretty he's pretty at this time he's pretty delayed, right?

>> Yes. Okay. Yeah. Like physically, he's he's fine. >> Sure. Have you have you gotten neurological testing done?

>> No, we've done >> um >> or have you gotten him psych valves >> or developmental evals?

>> No, they think that he's good because

like he knows he can count all the way to 20. Um he knows all his ABCs. He

recognizes numbers and letters. Um it's just verbal that he is behind.

>> Is he in a speech path program?

Yes. >> Okay. Very good. And so what is it about his speech challenges that make child

care impossible?

>> So because he he's very independent because he no one's been able to understand him for the longest time.

>> So he will ask and if he's not being

understood, he just goes and does it.

And >> um sometimes he's a little rebellious and he gets very >> frustrated um and mad when he's not being understood and he will repeat over and over a word >> and which is like I love his stubbornness because that's what's got us this far like him >> yeah constantly. Are you are you are you underelling it?

>> Okay, here's what I hear. I hear a mom

who is underwater with guilt

that somehow you did something wrong to this little boy and I want to free you from that. He didn't.

Okay.

You're a good mom.

Your husband's a good a good husband.

He's a good dad.

>> Yeah. He's a very hard worker.

>> I know. And you are, too. And this is a hard, messy situation because nobody likes to uncover, oh my gosh, the home we live in, our one safe place, actually is responsible for making our kids sick.

Nobody wants that. And here we are.

Okay.

My fear is you guys have boxed yourself into an eitheror situation and now you're building a house that you can't afford or that you can barely barely barely afford. And maybe you couldn't rent a house, but I would have suggested if you'd called us a few months ago, get a two-bedroom apartment. This is a very short-term situation right now, but there's other solutions. But here we are. You've you all building house. I'm I'm assuming you are under contract and everything. things going forward.

>> Yeah. Yeah, we've got started on it and

yeah, we have three kids.

>> Okay. >> He's our middle. >> Okay. Are you Are you able to make this payment? Are you all able to live comfortably without your salary?

>> We can. Yeah. So, with without my salary, it's our monthly payment will be

the like right at that 25%. Great. I

I just really want the extra cushion to

because we have livestock >> and our lives are very unpredictable and

if there is something else that my middle child needs

um like I had to go do a bunch of research on this because there was no research on kids with lead poisoning.

There is there is countless countless

reams of research on lead poisoning in children >> and if your physician doesn't know you got to move on from that physician. It is >> per I mean there's so much literature out there on it tons and it is a big deal. It's a very very big deal.

>> That's why they removed it from paint except in older all I don't want to derail us. It is out there a lot. Okay.

But also googling everything can make you it can trap you, right?

Yes. >> So, here's the bigger situation. You and your husband need to sit down and say, "Hey, we've created a life with a ton of variables in it and we have three kids

and we're building a home and we're moving." There's anxiety alarms ringing all throughout your house because y'all put too much on this plate in this particular season. And it may be for this season we're going to reduce the amount of livestock we have. Or we're going to move our cows to another field for two years and we're going to take that hit so that we have some margin to be with these three little kids, especially the one in the middle with special needs or and I'm just making something up, but anytime somebody calls me and says we have this problem or that problem and either or I want you to at least go through the exercise of putting three or four other variables on the table just to see.

Let's move from Nebraska. What would that look like? Ah, we can't do that. Okay, well, at least we want to put that on the table.

We are going to sell this house that we just put a thing in because I think we found a rental house. Well, we're not going to do that. So, I want you to I want you to at least go through that exercise. Do we have to have all these cows?

Do we have to? Do we have to? Do we have to?

Clear out that closet a little bit. And it's much easier to breathe in there.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And um is there any other question we can help you with? I feel like I just talked over you the whole time.

>> Well, yeah. We were just kind of looking at different like I was kind of trying to think of creative opportunities for me to make some income from home. I do a little bit of like custom leather work already. >> That's amazing.

That's There's never been a better time in history to sell custom leather work all over the planet if you can get it done and get up a nice esite. >> Yeah, I think that's great. I think anything that you're looking for, it sounds like right now you need money right away.

>> Or next door app or somewhere down the road.

[Music]

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[Music]

If you enjoy the Ramsay Show, let somebody know about it. uh take the time to share an episode of the show or if you're watching on a platform like YouTube, take a moment to like, maybe make a comment. If you're watching on Instagram, maybe watching one of those clips that we put out, use the little paper airplane and send it some to somebody else. All of that is so so important when you like, subscribe, and share.

It helps us in the algorithm and more people get this life-changing content. We appreciate it. All right, let's go back to the phone lines where Brenda is waiting in California. Hey, Brenda, what's going on?

How can we help today? Hello.

>> Great. First of all, >> let me just say John, you're one of my favorite people on the radio right now and I'm haven't had the guts to actually call your show and I'm so glad that you're on because this question has a little bit of emotion attached to it.

>> The question in it the question in its most simplicity is I wanted to know if selling my business um property would be a smart move to pay off debt and give me a jump start towards um saving for um

retirement. Um, I've opened my business

when I was 20 years old. I've had it for um 35 years now. And over the last, um,

since 2019, I was diagnosed with a medical um, well, with a blood cancer, I'll just say there's no cure. However, I do feel fantastic right now. So, um, that's not really holding me back at the moment. Um, and then COVID, the shutdown with COVID, and then, um, in 2023, my

uh, salon was flooded in the California floods. And so, um, I was, this is like

my second goaround on trying to get on the, uh, baby steps. And so, I had to live off some credit cards pretty much from about 2019 to now. And, um,

>> wait, what, Brenda? Why?

>> How come? Well, the Well, I'll say with the flood when the flood happened when um our community was trying to save it, I I'm a onewoman show, so I was literally trying to um put 50 pound bags around a fan around my Oh, because 50 pound bags of span around my injured

myself. I herniated myself and because I have this type of blood cancer, when I went to have it operated on, they gave me too much blood thinner and um I was internally bleeding. So, I had a long recovery before I was able to just, you know, go and rent another chair and start working. >> I I I got that. Did you Did you file malpractice against these people who poisoned you?

>> No, I didn't.

>> Okay.

Here's what I'm trying to give you back.

I'm trying to give you back some agency.

A flood will take everything from you because everything's going okay and then a natural disaster, it literally falls from the heavens and it takes everything. Right. >> Yeah. and it feels powerless.

>> And then when your body gets cancer, >> the very instrument that you walk and

breathe and talk through and love through goes to war against you. And it's scary, right? >> Yeah. >> Feels like you lose agency. You don't even trust your own body anymore.

>> And then it's easy to make the next statement, which is I had to for the last six or seven years live off credit cards. No, I didn't live off credit cards for six or seven years.

I lived off credit cards for five months. >> Oh, for five months. Okay. I thought you were saying you've been doing it since 2019. Okay.

>> No. So, for five months during the flood, time because I was already on trajectory. So, during the flood, so you're off the credit cards are like >> Okay. Thank you.

>> No, no, no. I'm ask I'm asking you.

You're not using credit cards anymore.

>> No. I'm just trying to pay them down, but with 30% um you know, 29.9%

interest, it's been really hard. How much do you owe?

>> So, I owe um 24,000 in credit card debt

and I have a um I mostly cash flow to my

son's college and so I owe 145 um to a

parent plus and then 10 um at a super

low interest rate that I got during 10,000 during COVID um just to um survive during that you know disaster

also. >> Okay. So, couple of things right off the top or let me ask you one more question.

How much do you make a year?

>> Okay, so there there's a little trick on that. Normally um up to maybe right now

currently I'm I'm about at 55,000.

Normally I make close to 100,000.

However, over the last two years being in that I was been in business for as long as I have. My clients are either um

starting to retire and moving where their kids are and moved out of the area or to their passing. And so as I try to rebuild, I'm not able to rebuild the clientele as fast as they're dropping off >> when they go and move to other areas. So that's where I'm at right now. >> So here here's here's a couple of this is me sitting with you at the table.

Okay? Not accusational. This is me sitting with you. Okay? >> Sure. >> We're going to choose reality here.

>> Yeah. >> The reality is number one, you cannot afford to be paying for your son's college right now. You don't have that much money. >> No, I'm done with that.

Okay. >> He's out of college now. >> Okay. And so we're going to exhale.

We're not going to pay for anything that we can't afford. The second thing is you have to ask yourself, do I want to continue to be in business doing hair? Because part of your business is going to require you to really hit the streets to get new clients >> and you've been doing it for a long time and it feels like you're going all the way back to starting to square one to go get new clients. And that's what it's going to take.

whatever. Um, but the your clients are

leaving. So, you have to ask yourself, do I want to be in this business and get back in like take the cycle all the way around and start this thing again and get new clients or am I done with this?

>> No, I'm not done with it. I have a good 15, 20 years of hair in me.

>> Okay, then that means you're just going to have to choose reality and say, "Okay, cool. My people are dropping off." Then I'm going to have to take one less client a day for the next two

months and I'm going to have to hammer the streets getting more people.

>> Yeah, this is what I'm have to do.

>> I have been doing that. I have been, you know, uh, posting I have more visits to my website now. Like I've been every day doing that with >> it. You're just gonna have to keep going. Keep going. There you go. Okay.

So, you're you're working on that problem. And so talk to me and Jade about the bigger issue which is do you want to sell your property?

So the business that I'm a onewoman show like I said in the business the tricker is um the fact that the I rented this

building from um my father for many years and then about maybe I want to say 10 years ago um he was in some financial

struggles and so he he basically devided

it over to me. I there's nothing owed on the property at all. >> What's it worth?

Um, as of 2023 when, um, I looked, it

was at 380.

>> 380,000. Okay. So, I'm going to simplify this a little bit. My screen says, "I'm living off credit cards. Is selling my business a good idea?" So, are we talking about just selling the property or are we talking about selling the property along with your salon book of business? What are we talking about specifically? What are you thinking about offloading to pay off this $48,000 of debt? if I understood correctly, >> the property, the the business property and building, not my actual clientele.

>> Okay. Okay. >> That would go with me. >> And so, where would you do hair if you were not doing it out of this building?

What would be the plan? >> Um, oh god, it would be a dream just to rent a chair and not have um So, what

I've always said is like I'm I'm one person, two households. I have, you know, two light bills, two gas bills, two two of everything. And people can barely live on with two incomes in one household these days. And so that's where I where where >> So you want to be out of the out of the the building business anyway.

>> How big is the building?

>> Um propertywise the land and everything's about 3,000 square feet.

Actual building properties maybe 1,500.

>> See, here's the thing. Here's my question. Um you don't you you owe it you own it outright. You don't owe anything on the property, right? It's just an asset.

>> And it sounds like

you might not be this person. So, if I'm putting this on you and you're like, "Hey, I'm just not that person." I feel like you have a great opportunity here because you've got the space that if somebody wanted to rent a chair from you, you could allow somebody in your space, I don't know, that does nails or somebody in your space that does eyebrows and or an anesthetician, all of those things, you have the the ability to house those items and therefore make more money. and with you. I don't know what your cancer uh you know the foresight is on that and what that looks like, but on down the line that might be really good for you.

I don't know what the doctors have said, but if you come in a season where you're not able to be on your feet as much or you're doing a treatment, there's still something there that's earning money for you. So, that feels like a move to me along with hitting the pavements like John said to try to build your book of business. But one way to build your business is to add pieces to it that don't require as much of your personal time and personal effort because you're going to hit a ceiling with that really quick. There's no way to scale out of that until you add people.

So, there's part of me that doesn't think this is the move. >> I don't think so at all. >> Yeah. I think if you can just keep building your income above 4,000 a month, you can pay off this 38 to $48,000 of debt.

And uh I think that's the move. That's what I would do. Hold on to the building.

[Music]

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[Music] So, we have a fun segment here that we like to call asking for a friend. You know what this is, John? Whenever there's something that you kind of feel embarrassed about asking about. So, >> I get that all the time.

Hey, just asking for a friend. So, what if you're my friend's wife doesn't like him anymore? I get that all the time. >> Yeah.

Asking for a friend. What is a >> James is always like, "Hey, I'm asking for a friend. Like, do these like really short pink shorts like do they like make my thighs look or my friend wants to know if it makes his thighs look It does, James.

>> Okay.

Oh, boy. >> James is always asking for a friend.

>> I don't want to ever hear the word James and thighs in the same sentence.

>> The single grossest thing to happen in in in western fashion in the last 20 years is the increasing creep up

>> of shorts >> of the male shorts. Lint Biscuit did it right in the late 90s. Shorts should be midshin and that's it. Oh, you are so right. >> And they're getting higher and higher and higher. >> I am the one who is buying shorter shorts for my husband because >> Oh, gross. >> Show me the thigh. Okay, here we go.

>> Upper male thigh is the grossest thing.

>> No more. >> It's the worst. >> Please, let's talk about asking for a friend. >> Ask for a friend.

>> Asking for a friend. What is an asset?

Why is asset coming out shorts? Not.

>> Okay, >> man.

Okay. What is an asset in the way of

money? Okay. So, assets, let's just talk about that for a minute because a lot of times you hear, you know, from the the dude bros on on Tik Tok and on >> and they're short shorts. I need some assets, dude.

>> You need to be making money in your sleep, bro. Right. So, they're talking basically an asset is something that has a value on it, a monetary value. It's money that if you were to sell it, you would earn more money, right?

That's kind of the best way to think of it financially anyway. And so an example of that would be cash money, right? Like that's an asset. It's money that you have, right?

Uh when you cash flow everything, you don't need to rely on debt. So it is something that is of value to you. Uh something else, real estate, right? That's an asset.

It's something that well, if it's done, that's true. So, if you have equity in a piece of real estate, at that point, yeah, it is an asset.

>> Equity is if you pay money for something

and as you're owning it, it continues to go up in value. So, let's let's pretend you buy a piece of real estate for $400,000 and you bought it for $400,000

in 2024. And then if you look up next year and it's worth, I don't know, $460,000 >> and you've paid 40,000 down on the principal. Mhm. So now you've got $100,000. Yes. Did we do that in a way

that makes sense? I hope we did. So that's the idea there. So a lot of times on the show you'll hear someone call in and they'll say, "I got this real estate property." And we'll say, "What do you owe on it?" And they'll tell us. And then we'll say, "What do you think it's worth?" And then we'll do that subtraction and that will tell us what the equity is. Okay. Uh another form of

asset would be an investment. Yeah. That could be your 401k.

uh that could be uh a Roth IRA. Any

money that's sitting in any type of investment uh account that is gaining

interest is an investment and it is an asset. Getting out of debt and having a fully funded emergency fund uh is the quickest right way to build wealth. Um you would invest 15% of your income in a tax advantage retirement account. Like I said, that's an IRA, a 401k. And yeah, that is an asset. It's a way that you're building wealth. Next, tax advantaged

accounts. Another type of asset. These accounts let you keep more of your money by reducing taxes now and later. Okay, so again, examples of this, a traditional IRA, a Roth IRA, an HSA,

even a 529 savings account would be an example of that. Uh, and other types of assets. Yeah, your car is an asset. As long as you're not upside down, if you could sell your car and pocket the money, especially if it's a paidoff car, yeah, that's an asset. your wedding ring. If you sold your wedding ring today and you got, you know, a couple of thousand dollars in cash, that is an asset. Uh boats could be assets. Again,

it's if you sell it and you receive money and you're able to receive more than what you paid for it is really what we're looking for. So, you hear this a lot when we talk about net worth, John.

Uh a lot of times people don't understand the net worth equation. They think if you're a millionaire, it's cuz you made a million dollars. And that's really not it. is your assets, which is

what you own minus what you owe must be

x amount of dollars. In this case, a million dollars, right? So assets play into that equation. It's what you own that is of value. Did I cover it?

>> I think you got it. >> Did I get it? If you have questions, you can email James Childs. Hey, >> I love that you snuck asking for a friend into and asking for a friend with the equity question. That was good. >> I was just trying to get a little bit meta here. And by the way, um,

short shorts, the upper male thigh, not an asset. Big >> I think you need to bring back the Jeno shorts. >> Oh gosh. >> I'm working on it, man. >> It depends on who you ask about.

>> No, not the Jeno ones. I'm talking about like actual real car hearts that people cut off to make them shorts because that's all they had. The real Social D

punks back in the day. Those are the those are the guys. Hey, we saw New Fun Glory the other night at a local club here in town and they had the long the long dickies and it it made me happy.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Shorts should go down the knee.

Gentlemen, >> go straight onto these phone lines where I got Carrie in Phoenix, Arizona. Tell us what you think about the shorts. Carrie, >> don't >> um It just like a man wearing pink. If

he owns it, if if he isn't like ashamed of it, he can pull it off. >> I love that. The clothes make the man.

The man don't make the clothes. Wait, the man makes the clothes. The clothes don't make the man. >> No, it's the other way around. Yeah, >> but short should go past the knee, right?

>> For a guy. Yeah, I feel like that's not

only modest but appropriate, but otherwise, you know, some guys take it too far and they get a little bit of um swimming trunk if you if you know what I mean. Not even swimming trunk. No, like like speedo, you know. We don't want that. >> They need to they need to

>> Okay, >> that's more George Campbell, but that's a different show. All right, so how can we help you? Let me help you.

>> Okay. So, did you guys hear about the storms that rolled through Phoenix a couple weeks ago? >> I did. Yes, ma'am.

>> Okay. We got hit pretty hard and I took

some damage to my home. Which is bringing up the question about whether or not we should do a particular remodel that we have been thinking and planning about for the last like six years.

>> Wow. So, we have like if we did the

remodel, we would have to obviously pay

for everything including the roof. Well, now my insurance is covering the roof, making the remodel a little bit cheaper out of pocket for me.

>> Okay. So, what will it cost you to do the remodel without the roof cost?

>> Okay, so it's not just the roof. Like my tra it picked up my trampoline and hit my back porch and tore my back porch off of my house. >> Yikes. In order to put the back porch back on, we have to move our septic tank in order to build the new back porch to code.

>> Will insurance cover the back porch because of the trampoline because of the storm? >> Yes. >> Okay. Nice.

>> Yeah. So, there's a lot of other stuff that it's going to cover. Now, here's the nitty-gritty numbers. Okay.

We owe about 450,000 on our home, but our home's value is 1.2 million.

locked into that 2.5 years ago. Um but

since then and after COVID, my husband got really sick with COVID and um we

were on top of every single one of our bills. We were paying everything down and when my husband got sick um and some of our bills kind of went delinquent, our credit took a hit.

>> So, um we have a total of 68,000 in

medical debt. We have uh approximately

90,000 in other loans between two cars

and a horse trailer. personal loans, solar panels.

>> Um we only have 10,000 in credit card.

>> Um we have between my husband and I, we have about 150,000 a year in income.

>> Um I'm an at home mom, but I make the land work for me. So we are on 2 and a half acres. I board horses. I sell chicken eggs. I have like 54 chickens.

>> All right. So write your question. We're up against the clock here. >> Well, the question is, should you do this renovation? Right.

>> Should I do the renovation? But should I do it with an HA or a heliloc?

>> Please don't. >> No, please don't. Listen, you're already in $178,000

of debt. Um, here's the thing. You have you have a great opportunity and I see the opportunity you're talking about it.

You're like, "Hey, the insurance will pull pay for the roof. It'll pay for the back porch and some other things on the list." That is going to cut down on your renovation costs. And if you were in a position to be able to cash flow the rest of the renovation, I'd be like, "Yes, I'm on your side. Go do this today." But the truth is, you're just not in that position, Carrie, you owe a

lot of money in debt, and the income is great, but you're not there today. So, no, I would not do this renovation. Have insurance. Please don't.

>> Have insurance fix the things that need to get fixed.

[Music]

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[Music]

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today. All right, let's go to Jay. He's in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's up, Jay?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

>> What's up, brother?

>> Daily listener. love the show and appreciate all the advice um that you guys offer on the uh on the interwebs

and the and the radio.

>> Thank you, Jay. >> Got a question for you. Uh it's kind of a kind of short to the point. Um my wife and I,

we own our own home and we're uh we're

still working a little I'm working full-time. My wife works part-time and we have two grown sons and one of them recently went overseas to go to school

and we um along with him put together

some money for him to go over and start

uh going to school overseas and now he has um asked us to um help again and

just wanted to kind of get um some advice and you know see what you guys would would recommend. And >> what's he what's he studying overseas?

>> Um, that's a good question. We're not really sure. >> Yeah, I would not I would not put another penny in this. >> You don't know what he's studying?

>> None. >> Um, >> and I am as pro higher education as anybody in this building. I promise.

Maybe the top. I'm probably the most pro- higher education person I know. And I would not fund my kid to leave the country to go do a thing that I don't know what's going on or what they're doing, what they're studying, what the what the what they are expecting to gain. And by the way, if my kid goes to college, one of my rules is you have to study abroad.

I even believe in sending kids abroad. We've got to get like I'm a huge believer in that. But you don't even know what you're putting money into.

>> Jay, how much have you given him so far?

>> Um it's it's between let's say it's it's

around 10,000.

>> Okay. So, >> and okay, his um his mother probably knows a little

bit more. >> Um we think it's visual art, but we're not sure. I'm I'm not sure.

>> Is it is the uncertainty? Answer me this. Is the uncertainty on your part or is on is it on his part? Has he been kind of telling you and you guys are like, "Okay, yeah." And just not taking it in or is he being ambiguous and not

>> being clear? Yeah, the the the second.

Yeah. Okay. The latter. >> Did he did he have uh grades and end of

seme if if you're a VA student, you would have visual arts student, you would have a portfolio that you've started your freshman year. So, he would have examples of art and examples of um

all different sorts of product. Have you seen all that stuff?

>> Uh some of it. Yeah.

>> Have you seen the grades? It's >> been a while. No, have not seen any grades. Um, >> level with us. >> This is >> level with us. Jay, do you think he's still in school or do you think something else? >> I do. >> Okay. Okay. >> I do. I do think I do think he's in a situation where he is um kind of up

against the wall. He got he told us he got sick during the first the first

semester there and he got behind on some of his classes. And I believe that he

did get a job. He never had a job before when he was here, but he has a job now,

but it's not enough to generate. And we

did recommend maybe looking into other options like a small student loan or

something like that, but really without an income, I just I wasn't sure whether or not he was going to be able to, you know, uh pass and the uh the formalities

of getting a student loan.

>> Yeah. when he didn't have a job. But he does have a job now. >> I don't even know if you can get a federal student loan to qualify for an overseas university.

This Jay, this is not I worked with college students for 20 years. This is not passing my smell test. >> Yeah, it's not sounding good. But there's two sides of it.

I I want to confirm that there's two sides of this here. I agree with John. I would not keep shelling out money for purposes that you don't know of or what it's being used for. That's thing one.

there was a lack of expectation and lack of clear conversation on you know how

we're going to school, who's paying for it, what's on the table, what's not on the table, what my responsibility is, what your responsibility is. That conversation clearly was never had. And so when you do come to your son and say,

"Hey son, I can't give you any more money for this. Uh here's why." But I also want to go back and say, "Here's what I should have done that I didn't do. 100%. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> He did a lot He did a lot of it on his own. Uh 75% of it was done on his own.

And um >> you still don't even know what it is.

>> Right. >> What I'm saying >> that has that has been a source of bothering u me and his mother for over a year now.

So, if if my kid came if my kid came to me and said, "Hey, I'm spending 35 grand of my own money that I saved up. Would you help me with the last 10 grand to go to college?" I would be thrilled.

Absolutely. >> Sure. >> But we'd still sit down before I wrote a check for $10,000 a semester, 40 grand

over the course of four years. I would still sit down and say, "What are you studying? >> What's your plan with this? What is your day-to-day going to look like? How can I love you here?" And by the way, I again, every college is different and I can't speak for overseas colleges. I know I spent a ton of my time taking students

who got sick psychologically, physically, who know like cancer, psychiatric issues, all of it, helping them get back on their feet and be successful that semester andor the next one. And so just it it just doesn't

something's not adding up, >> right? Yeah. And so I love Jade. What Jade said is so important though because if you sit down and say, "Hey, I don't know what's going on. I don't then

he's got to have to defend himself." >> If you sit down and say, "Hey, I I blew this whole college thing and I want to start over. I I need some more information. I didn't do a good job. I wasn't clear up front.

I didn't ask you what your major is. I didn't tell you I want to see your some of the work. I want to know what the plan is. Why are we studying overseas?

What kind of job or life do you want to have? Are you going to live overseas when you get out of school?

Are you going to come back home? I want to know some of those questions because

Jay, the question I'm hearing him ask beneath the real question is I don't know where my son is and what's going on. >> Yeah. And he's nowhere near me. He's in another country, >> right? >> Yeah. I there's there's a lot going on.

I'm not going to lie. Um, but I do want

to make sure that I'm being really clear just not only for Jay, but for other listeners, too. When it comes to college, John, you know, being able to pay for school, whether all of it or a portion of it, is really a privilege for both parties. It's a privilege for the child to receive it and it's a privilege for the parent to have the financial ability to say, "Here's this money for your education." Like, that's an amazing thing. That being said, it's not a requirement.

Like it doesn't make you a good parent or a bad parent if you can't afford to pay it.

that is so so important, you've got to have these conversations before the fact. Yes. >> And you've got to have them more than once because you hear something and you know, information gets lost and details get forgotten. It's up to us as the parent to have these conversations and say, "Hey, here's what it is.

When you go to college, here's what we're going to do. We got to pick a place that you can afford.

Um, here's what you need to do. We're expecting you to work. We're expecting you to earn $800. Like, be specific.

We're expecting you to cover your room and board. We're expecting you to cover, you know, your apartment. We're expecting you to live on campus. We're expect we're expecting to give you $3,000 a month. Be so clear and talk

about it as much as possible so that when the time comes, there's no question. >> And start talking about it your freshman year of high school. >> Yes. Yes, >> it doesn't sneak up on you.

It's like Christmas. It will be there in four years. And it's a simple reverse engineering math problem to say, we're going to have this many dollars in an account to help you. >> You're going to be responsible for this.

And by the way, here's what the top three colleges in our state cost. Or this is reality. >> Or like my dad said, hey, you ain't got a college fund, so you better be good at sports or you better get an academic scholarship.

>> And tell them that their freshman year of high school, not their second semester senior year. >> Facts. We'll be right back.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Uh, live in Fairwind's Credit Union studio taking calls here with Dr. John Deloney.

I'm Jade Warshaw. And what is this? Is this Ken Coleman producing the show today? >> Yes, he's back there producing this segment.

>> All right, it's going to go off the rails. We got Roger who's in Florida on the line. Hey, Roger. How can we help today? >> Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm I'm retired about four years now, and I have a sister who's been estranged from the family for a very long time, and

I've been sending her about $700 a month for about 10 years. >> Oh my goodness. Wow.

>> Yeah. Well, she um she's never really

had a job. Um she lives in another state

out west and um currently um my wife is

about to retire and the source that I'm

pulling this money from is going to dry up. >> Oh man. >> And and so I'm in a spot and everybody

told me I was going to be in this spot.

you know that um I'm not sure I can sustain her lifestyle.

>> You can't. >> She's never had a >> I know. But Roger, she's never had a job cuz she's never had to.

>> Right. Yeah. Oh, she's never worried about tomorrow. >> Well, she hasn't had to because you did for a decade. >> Yeah. Right. >> 10 years is a long time, >> man. >> No, it is a long time. If you add it up, plus the incidentals along the way, it's a huge chunk of money in my world. I was a modest income guy, but I kind of did the right things that allowed me to retire comfortably.

>> Um, and I have a little royalty source, but that royalty source is going to dry it up, and that's what I used to fund this. >> So, that means it's over, >> I guess. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I guess my question for you guys is there has to be social services

that actually could step in for somebody who's 75 years old and really doesn't

have means. And that's where I'm kind of falling short and trying to discover those sources. >> Yeah, they're there. She could be on Medicaid or you know what what have you.

But don't you think that's hers to discover?

>> I'd like to think so, but in some ways she just doesn't have that ability to

figure this stuff out. >> Is something going on? Is she Does she have uh any disability mentally that's

uh developmental? there something that's causing her medically speaking to not be able to do these things that you know about? >> No, there's not there's not really that.

I I think it's more of someone who's just been naive their whole life about this kind of things, maybe doing end runs around the system, whatever it might be. >> And and somebody who

for the majority of her adult life has had other people just stepping in and taking care of it. Well, I won't say

that's the case. You know, she's been married a few times and she currently has a husband that's not well. They've always seemed to put things together in a very simple way.

>> She has a husband. >> Yeah. Let me let me reverse this.

>> If you called her and said,

um, I have a hard conversation to have with you. Let me know in the next week when we can have this conversation.

and you say, "Hey, the I've been sending you $700 a month for the last 10 years

in 60 days in two more months that I'm not able to make those payments anymore.

And so I'm not going to be able to send any more money. And so I'm giving you two months notice. I've been doing this for a long long time. So I'm giving you two months or even three months notice.

And I'm going to send you I'm going to Google I Googled this for you. You can do this also, but I Google I'm googling Florida research." uh Florida resources for elderly folks. And I'm just assuming that's where she lives. >> Um >> well actually uh she lives out in Nevada. >> Okay. Okay. Nevada resources. 61F does another >> and

>> I wish you the absolute best.

>> Yeah. >> And and here's the thing. Is she call you on a weekly basis and say, "Hey, I need help with resources." >> No, she doesn't. She's not a guilt trip type person in this thing.

>> Okay. Then why do you why do you why do you take yourself on guilt trips that she's not asking you to go on?

>> True. I will say that and I think it's a little bit of loyalty to her. Although we I've seen her like three times in 30 years, you know, it's a little bit trying to be the good guy in this whole thing. >> I know. But you've been you've been solving a problem that it sounds like nobody ever even asked you to solve.

>> Well, no. I Yeah, true, too. I stepped in, you know, at a I stepped in at a lower amount of money several years ago.

And of course, life gets more expensive, so I increased it. And I did, you know,

I don't if I still had the whereol to

supply her and keep her whole, I would do it. Now, things are things are changing. That's the point, you know.

>> Yeah. You know, around me and my family.

>> You can do what you want. >> Roger. I don't think we can help you, my guy, because I you want to do this

>> and as long as you want to keep doing this, you're going to keep doing it. Like you just said, if you had more money to keep doing it, you'd keep doing it. >> And so I don't think I think we're at a bit of an impass in the way that you feel the need to do this. You, like you said, your sister, she's not coming to you saying, "Help me figure this out." You're just up and doing it.

And at that point, then, yeah, it's just your choice. We're not mad at you. Uh, but since you called and asked, "How do I tell my sister that I can't be her long lifelong safety net?" We're telling you, you just up and call her and say, "Hey, I know I've done this for 10 years.

And not only is it running out, but I've also realized I can't keep doing this.

You're gonna have to figure out a way to come up with that $700 on your own." And it truly is um the conversation truly is

that simple. I know it's harder to actually play out, but the bigger work

is for you to figure out why you're having a hard time letting this go.

>> Yeah. No, you're absolutely right.

>> Did Can I ask a question? I have an inkling. I I don't know if I'm right, but >> just listening to you talk, and John is here, so he'll he'll set us both straight. But just listening to you talk, it almost makes me wonder if a long time ago something happened that you felt like you were supposed to be there and you weren't and you're just making up for it.

I don't know the home you guys grew up in. I don't know anything like that. But I just wonder, are you trying to make up for something? Is there something that your sister should have you should have been there for and you weren't there?

I don't know.

No, it's a fair question. I think the basic root of it all is she's family and

it's like, you know, what desperation she'll go into >> if this money's not there.

>> You know, it's like pulling the plug saying, "Okay, um, you know, before when

I've talked to her about it, she goes, >> "Yeah, and this is the guilt thing. Well, I guess I'm going to have to sleep in my car, you know." >> Well, where's her husband? You said he's ill. Is he just not able to contribute?

No, they're not at a point where she she's never had a job, so getting a job would be very difficult for her at 74.

And he he's ill where he really can't work. So, >> you know, they're living and and this this is the point, you know, um >> listen, if you want to be if you want to be generous, to John's point, we're never going to stop you from being generous. If you feel, hey, I'm called to this. This is what I feel like doing.

But there is a component to this that you've also got to be able to afford that. And you said that you set yourself up to be able to retire, but you also said the source that you were pulling from to fund this is drying up. So the

question you have to ask yourself is, is there another source that I can pull from that's not going to take away from my family's ability to retire and be comfortable in my legacy. And if you can do that, and if you want to do that, you

know what? That's your bag. I do think that you're enabling her. I truly do believe that based on what you're saying. Um, >> and you can't enable somebody and then complain that they um are

>> failure to launch. >> That's right. Yeah. >> If you're going to keep funding it, you have to do that with a glad, cheerful heart and stop talking bad about your sister.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, back to the phone lines we go. John, are you ready?

>> Let's do All right, Elijah Dallas, Texas on the line. What's up, Elijah? I like that name, by the way.

>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you guys for taking my call.

>> What up? >> It's really good to be on the Ramsey show. Been a big fan for a long time.

>> Glad to hear it. How can we help today?

>> So, I followed Ramsay's rule about buying a cash car um and not getting

into a car payment. So, the car that I

have currently, um, it was a 20th

birthday present and

sorry about that. Um, it was a 20th birthday present. I put half and my parents put the other half.

>> Lately, this car has become a this car

has become a nuisance. The, for

instance, when we first bought it, we had to put a,000 into it to get a new engine. um about a year ago had to put

another 3,000 because the transmission went out. >> Yikes. >> By the way, all by the way, all paid for with cash, no financing. >> Good. >> Um >> you you replaced the two big rocks, >> right? At this point, it's only up from here.

>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um now,

when I was in college, we ran into some financial troubles after my father passed away. And um I played a role in

this as well, but I did run up about $6,500 in credit card debt.

>> Okay, >> recently I paid off $1,500 and I was

this close to rounding up all the money and then sending it for the biggest debt. >> Okay, >> here's what happened. Um first, another

$1,100 expense. Engine mounts went out.

>> Engine mounts went out. Okay, so that's not the 1,000 for a new engine. And that's a separate amount, 1,100.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And and then I was able to pay that and still be able to set myself up to be able to send all the money to my biggest debt, which is 3,500 as we speak.

>> Okay. >> 3,400 as of today.

>> Okay.

>> And then um fast forward um now the

starter and air compressor had gone out.

>> Oh my gosh. What kind of car is this?

You won't believe me if I tell you. It is the infamous It is a infamous Nissan.

It is the infamous Nissan Maxima.

>> Well, there you go. >> Oh, there's the problem right there, my friend. >> All right. So, here here's the bigger question, Elijah. And you know what I'm going to say? What Jay's going to say.

Here's a bigger question. Do you have 2500 bucks? Do you have 2,000 bucks to go buy yourself another car that's going to get you six or seven or eight months more down the road or one year down the road?

Because neither of us are going to tell you we would be bad humans if we told you, you know what, after all this bad luck, you should go get a $15,000 car note and just get yourself a new Toyota, whatever. >> We would not be good people if we told you to do that >> because we'd actually be taking you way further back. You're so close to the edge. It sounds like you're getting super frustrated that you keep getting close to the edge and then keep getting slapped back by life.

And I get that frustration, but the solution isn't My my buddy here, I'll give you this analogy.

I have a buddy named Jordan Scot. He's a fitness guy. He's a brilliant mind. He said, "People get on a diet and they start taking their nutrition really seriously and then they have one night where they just blow it. They just somebody shows up with a bag of Oreos and they just hammer it." >> Are you talking about me? >> I'm talking about myself. Literally, somebody dropped off a bag of Oreos the other day and I crushed it. But he said, "What people do then is they're like, "Well, I'm already off, so

the rules are off." And he said, "That's like walking outside in the morning and seeing you have a flat tire and then pulling out a

knife and going around and slashing the other three tires." And you have had a run of walking outside your house and seeing one of the tires flat and you're just so frustrated

by it, you want to grab your pocketk knife and go punch a hole in all the other tires. And Jade and I are going to tell you, "Please don't do that. You're so close, man. You've worked so hard to get this close." either pay the stupid money and pay off that crap and just >> get a starter and get a whatever and get on down the road a little bit further or go trade that car in.

>> Mhm. Yeah. What'd you pay for this Maxima?

>> So, I paid $12,976.

And >> that hurts. >> If if it's okay with you guys, I'd like to run a plan I put together once I get this car back. >> Okay. Um, it's very similar to what you guys actually just said about the $2,500. Okay.

>> The after all the repairs are done, I know the car will last me at least two and a half, three years. >> Okay. >> Within that time, what I want to do is just put together 7500, 8 grand, and

then actually go the Toyota Lexus route, get a 2007, get a 2008.

>> Yeah. >> Buy that. And then just get rid of this car, let it go for 40,500, five grand.

>> Yeah. I love that. Love that.

>> Okay, so that's a good idea.

>> I have an 06 Toyota that I it will it will last longer than me. It won't stop driving. >> Yes, I think you're right.

>> The the only caveat is because now I

will say so currently in my personal checking that I'm using to pay for this, there's $2,400 sitting in there at the moment. >> Okay, >> the repair the the repairs are going to be about $,750, maybe $1,800. That'll leave me with about $600 700 until my next payday next week.

>> Okay. >> Now, I want to know if this is still a good option because I like to keep at least 1,500. Actually, really, really three grand in my checking account at all times. >> Why? >> But as you can see, I've had a few setbacks. >> Why do you like to keep three grand? That's a big cushion for someone who's in baby step, too. Why is that?

>> I guess you can say I'm very extreme and I like to have money laying around for the emergencies. Yeah, but I also >> Okay. Okay. Here's the thing.

You get to choose. Are you working our plan or are you working Elijah's plan? Because if you are working Elijah's plan, that'll let me know. I'm tracking with you on Elijah's plan.

But if you're working our plan, which it sounded like you said you were, then I got to hold you accountable. So, just let me know right quick. And that'll that'll inform what we say next. >> Because here here's a weird thing, Elijah.

>> 25. >> Okay. Here's a weird thing I figured out. If I have $3,000 in an account and

a mechanic says it's$,750.

It's annoying and I exhale and I got

1750. I'm going to give it to you. I only got 1,200 bucks left. This is the worst whatever how much much we got left. Okay. 1,300 bucks left.

>> If I only have that $1,000 emergency fund, that's all I got. A I got $2,000 less of debt. >> Come on. >> Which for you is a big chunk of what you got left. And then when that guy says$,750, I say, I can show you my checking account. I have $1,000. What can we do right now? And then he's going to go, >> I bet you I can get a good used part right here that will last you for another year. Hang on.

>> Or I can't help you get out of my shop.

And you say, cool. I'll go find another person. Mhm. >> And what happens is you force yourself into some sort of creativity that you

you have to you have to find a way, which humans had to do for all of human history until like 50 or 60 or 75 years ago. >> That's that's that's the reason we stick to the plan the way it is. >> Yeah. I I I I truly I couldn't I couldn't applaud what John just said more. You got to decide how you're going to tackle this because that $3,000 really is a huge catalyst in how this plays out.

So, um, going So,

for for the solution, would you say as soon as I get it back, trade this in and get a $2,500 car?

>> Uh, no. I was with you. I'm with you on the idea that it's best to go ahead and do the repairs on this car, ride it out, cuz you said if, hey, if I do the $1,700 of repairs, I'm going to be able to ride this car for the next 2, three years.

And then during that time, yeah, save up the 8,000 and get you something more reliable. But what I really want to attack is having and I want to talk to

the masses on this. Yes, doing a zerobased budget should never mean zero dollars in your account. You need to have some form of cushion in your account. But what that cushion is does depend greatly on what baby step you're in.

Okay? Uh if you're in baby step two, you need as much money at your disposal for debt as possible. So when you think through a cushion, you're really thinking, "Okay, John, what is the worst that could happen that I would not have planned for in my budget? What Amazon Prime subscription hits me?

It'sundred and I don't know how much it costs these days. 160 bucks, right, for the year." That's kind of what it is. It's like what's the worst could happen? Grandma's birthday hits, Amazon happens.

So when you're in baby step two, that really is looking like three 300 bucks. Maybe maybe a little bit more than that because what it's not, the cushion is not an emergency fund. That's not what it is. Baby step one was the emergency fund or baby step three is the emergency fund.

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So, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you just can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings that we do every single month and they're all hosted by a Ramsey personality, uh, one of the money personalities, myself, George Camel, uh, Rachel Cruz, and we show you how to stick to your budget and even find $3,000 of margin using every dollar so

that you can actually get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any questions during the live Q&A. So, if you're interested in this, go ahead and sign up today for free at ramiesolutions.com/webinar.

Alrighty then. Scott is in Jacksonville, Florida. Scott, what's up, man? How can we help? >> Hi, Jade and John. Thanks for taking my call. >> You're welcome. >> I have an estate question. Uh, I'd like to start some sort of uh fund for my six grandchildren. Um, two of the grandchildren have 529s. The other four grandchildren do not. And I'm just wondering the best way to start that fund for them. They're between ages one and a half to six years old. >> You are awesome, dude.

You are awesome.

>> I listen to your show a lot and I haven't really heard any questions like this. So, I I'm glad I got through to ask you and Jade about it.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, you've got these grandkids. Are you What's the intent of the money? Are you like, "Hey, I want to help them with education. I want to buy their first car." Tell us a little bit more of what you're thinking here.

>> Okay. The two of the grandchildren, they have college educated parents. are uh all three of our adult kids are married and and four of the parents are college educated. So, two of the grandkids have a 529 already in place.

>> The other four aren't sure about what their kids are going to do. One isn't one couple isn't sure about what college will look like in 18 years. Um the other one is a single income uh couple and uh

you know they're living on one income and I just want to be able to kind of put money aside for whatever they might need. if they want to go to a trade school, if they want to buy a car, if they want to let the money roll and and eventually help them with a down payment on a house, or if they get to 55, you know, have some money for retirement.

I'm I'm not quite sure. I'm just wondering the best way to to kind of structure it. >> Yeah. So, if it were if I were in your shoes, I'd probably talk to the parents first.

Uh so, let me kind of put myself in your shoes. I'd say, "Hey, I want to give the kids money. What do you guys think?" So, my first thing would be like, yeah, if you can help us get this 529 to where it's going to be, that would be amazing, right? And then the next thing would be, okay, from there, uh, we do utmost for the kids every year.

You know, we contribute. If you can help us contribute to this UTMA, that'd be great because when they're 18, we're going to transfer that money over to them.

really want to do is help them with the down payment for their first house you know when they're you know 28 years old that sort of thing. So I would talk to the parent first and find out really kind of what the need is since for you it seems to be hey whatever whatever they need we'll fund. And then from there on I'd see okay what do they have in place and how can I contribute this money to them. Uh, how much are you thinking of gifting every single year?

>> Well, I thought I'd start with maybe a a you know, a seed gift of maybe two grand per child. Okay. And then kind of go from there. Um, seeing how they're so young, I could put it in, you know, a more riskier investment vehicle, you know, that might grow quicker, you know, and still weather the ups and downs of the stock market, I guess, is what I was thinking.

>> Yeah. And what And who And you would just place them as the beneficiary. Is that what you're thinking? Cuz I feel like you could do >> Yeah.

Beneficiary.

>> I'd work with the parents and maybe do an UTMA, something that you can transfer that'll go over to their name when they're, you know, of legal age.

>> Okay. I, like I said, two of the grandkids already have 529, so I could just with those parents, I've already talked to them. Mhm. >> I'm sure they would just take the money and put it in their existing 529s. It's the other four parents that really have nothing in in place right now at all.

>> Oh, you know what? >> I misunderstood you when you said before that the other the other two kids had 529s. I for some reason in my mind I thought you meant that they were fully funded. Like they didn't need any more in the 529.

>> Oh, no. I don't think so. I I think they would take any contribution we have.

>> Okay, then I would I would focus on that because here's the thing. Even if you even if they overfund the 529s over time, that money can be transferred in other ways. Matter of fact, over time, it can actually be transferred to a a Roth IRA or IRA over time. So, I

wouldn't be too concerned with overfunding it. And the truth is

>> with any 529, there's that risk of, well, what if the kid doesn't go to college, right? So, I would I would start with a 529s for all kids. for the families that don't yet have them set up, I would say, "Hey, uh, I want to do this seed money of $2,000. Can I help set up a 529 for you guys, that's what our mother, my mother-in-law did for Sam and I, and it's been great." So, I think it's a really, really great gift that you're trying to give, and that's the way I do it.

Good call.

Thanks for the call. All right, I think we have time to go to Mike who's in Ohio. What's up, Mike?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> No problem. How can we help?

Uh so my question was uh my wife and I

recently bought a house and um the

monthly payment uh with both of our income combined is pretty reasonable.

It's like a third a little less than a third of our income. >> Okay. >> But um we just found out we're having our first kid and the plan was we were going to have her quit working.

>> Mhm. Um, but the problem is is with just my income alone, it's going to be a lot trickier. >> Yeah. What will that mortgage be with just your income?

>> Uh, so the payment is like 2475

of right now. Um, >> and then so that would be like 45% of my

income. >> Um, okay.

>> Yeah, that doesn't work. So how we have to solve for that, right?

>> Right. So, the plan hopefully was I can refinance in a few months and I'll get like the like all the fees and everything covered for that.

>> Um, but that would kind of right around coincide when she's my wife is due. So,

I was just my question basically is >> should we go back to renting when you know the rent was like 1,900 versus 24

so it's not a huge difference. Uh, or should we just stick with it and try to refinance the house? When you refinance it, well, I have a couple of questions.

When you refinance it, what will the payment go down to?

>> Uh, so I'm trying to get a lower interest rate because it's really high. So, I don't know exactly. I've looked at a few like, oh, if we got 5%, it would be like 2,000. So, um, it's kind of up

in the air, but >> Okay. >> Hopefully would be better. >> What's your take-home pay?

>> Uh, so I take home 5,500 a month after

like taxes and everything. Okay.

>> Uh, so >> 2,000 would still be way too much,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> So that sounds like and I mean five 5%.

You know, that's that's a pretty good rate. So I don't think you're going to get anything lower than 5%. So knowing that 5% would get you to 2,000 and that's still not near the 25% mark. I

don't think that that can be a plan.

Would you agree with that?

Yeah, it does sound sounds tough. So, >> yeah, I mean that's a that's a that's a big old percent when you're bringing home 5,500.

So, I think in this season, yeah, it

could be that you guys are looking at selling your house because how are you

going to exist on that small percentage of your income? Do you see what I'm saying? I hate You got to You got to hear me, Mike. I hate telling folks that they have to sell their house, but when you tell me the numbers, I'm bringing home 5,500 and maybe we can get a best possible scenario, maybe we can get it to 2,000.

It's tough, right?

>> How much have you paid down on this house? How much equity do you have in it? >> Uh we have I think like 20,000 right

now. Uh, we bought the house really recently, but >> um, we got it for under the appraisal >> because I was gonna >> Jade, I don't I haven't really heard us talk much on this show about this. I think I've only heard it one other time, but this I was wondering if this was a moment for a recast where you're the the

the length of the mortgage and your interest rate stays the same, but it basically recast your payment based on what you owe remaining. And that can really drop your monthly payment down without having to go through all the rigomearo of a finance a refinance and all that, but you don't have enough equity. You got 20,000 bucks. That wouldn't change your life at all. >> Yeah. You would usually do that after you've paid off a a big sum. Yeah.

>> Um in this case, I hate telling you this, but I think for you guys, yeah, getting out of this house, because the truth is, it's not like you've done something really irresponsible. Your life has just changed in a major way, right? you've had you have a baby coming and your wife is now saying I'm not going to contribute by working outside of the home. I'm going to work inside of the home. So yeah, your financial situation changes. It's okay if your living situation has to change as well.

So don't feel any guilt or negativity.

>> You have a new life now. You have a new kid and so we have to readjust for our new life. >> Yeah. New house, new housing situation.

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Ramsey shows scripture and quote of the day. Psalm 37:23-

24. The Lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him. Though he may stumble, he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand. Slash from

Guns and Roses said, "No one expects the rug to be yanked out from underneath him. Life-changing events usually don't announce themselves." >> Amen. >> That's a fact. >> We wouldn't have jobs, Jade, if that wasn't >> Life-changing Moments are not a bug of the human experience. It's a feature.

>> It's It's hurt and challenge and pain and unexpected things is life, >> man. >> It's life.

>> In a cold November rain.

>> Booyah.

>> Just had to do that anyway.

>> And by the way, just as a call back,

Axel didn't, but Slash wore long shorts as he should.

Axel wore very, very, very short.

>> He did. You know, Slash has aged very well underneath that hat, I might add.

Like, you really can't tell what's going on underneath there. >> Hey, he's done a good job.

>> Trace is in Salt Lake City, Utah. What's

up, Trace? How can we help?

>> Hey, how are you? >> We're doing good. What's up with you?

>> Good. >> Um, so me and my wife, we are 21 years old. We have a combined income of $130,000 a year. We're in baby steps four and six with no kids yet. We um we

started investing into our retirement in July >> and uh wanted to know if we can put more

into each one of our Roth IAS to get it up to the 7,000 for each one of us instead of putting more on the mortgage until April. So then does that make sense? So we can >> so we can uh >> max out that Roth for both of us before April so we can do it again. uh for that

for the next year. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Maxing out the Roth, so putting the 7,000 or 7,500, I can't remember what it is this year. >> Does that put you over the 15% of your income?

>> Um, so yes, but we'll we'll max out my Roth at 7,000 or 500. >> Mhm. >> And then we want to also max out my whites, which I think we could do another 7,000, right? >> I Yeah, I understand that. But I'm saying that 14,000 together, is that more than the 15% of your take-home pay?

>> Um, it would >> gross pay. >> It would be. Um, and we we are still paying the house off um like the 15-year mortgage. We still have on the 15-year.

>> Mhm. >> So, just for the six months, um I don't know, like I said, just to take advantage, >> okay, >> of the tax-free growth.

>> So, you told me you do that. >> You told me you make $130,000 a year.

So, 15% of that would be 19,500. That's

what you have for the year to put aside.

So, you're wanting to put 7,000 in hers, 7,000 in yours. That's 14. So, technically, you still have another 5,500. What are you going to do with that? >> Um, and that that's another question, too. Do I do I do the traditional or do I just put it into a brokerage account?

Um, we had just recently started making 130,000 a year. >> Ah, are you self-employed or do you have 401ks through your job?

>> Um, we I work for the state, so I have a pension and a 401k. Um, she she doesn't

if and so we just do the individual Roth IAS for each one. >> Okay. So, I love that you're doing the individual Roth IAS. I'd love for you to put the remaining 5,500 into your 401k.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, that's what I would do. Um, because it's tax advantaged in a better way than just a typical brokerage account. Um, so I would do that. Now,

what percentage uh your pension, do you know what percentage that is? What does that look like? Because that's part of this equation as well.

>> Yeah, I I get 60% of it when I retire at 35, but they don't take anything out of my pay. >> Oh, okay. >> If it is if it's it's not much at all.

>> Okay. Then I wouldn't really add that in then. Okay. So, yeah, do the two uh Roth IAS and then put the rest into your 401k. Do you know I'm guessing the 401k is traditional or is it Roth? Just curious. Um, it's either So, I can do a

Roth 401k or the 403b.

>> Yeah, definitely do the Roth 401k option. Okay. >> Okay. >> That way, you're paying the taxes now instead of later.

>> Okay, sounds good. Appreciate it.

>> All right. I love that. And then, yeah, beyond that, any money that you have extra, you're going to throw that on to since you're in baby steps four, five, and six, you're going to put extra payments or extra money, I should say, towards your house. And you and your wife can decide what that looks like.

It can change throughout the seasons. It doesn't have to be double payments every time, right? You're in a a season of intentionality. You don't have to be as intense.

So, that's up to you guys to discover, you know, what the rhythm of that looks like in your life.

I like it. All right. Kevin in Houston, Texas, >> Beach Town, >> what up? What up?

>> How's it going? Can you hear me fine? >> We got you, dude. What's up?

>> Hey, I just had a general question

pretty much. I'm trying to figure out where should I draw the line whenever it comes to spending a little bit of extra money on things that aren't necessary

but add a little bit of extra comfort in your day-to-day or just overall life.

And I can give you a couple examples of what I'm trying to talk about here.

>> Yeah, tell me. >> That helps. >> Give us one. >> Yeah. So, for example, I recently bought my first um economy plus seat seat on a

flight. Um, it was never something that I that I couldn't afford. It was just something that I didn't really want to spend extra money on. Um, I'm 61 for

reference and a lot of these airlines are getting kind of criminal with how little leg room they give. >> Amen. >> I decided, okay, I will uh I'll splurge a little bit. And it was the flight was just 20 million times more comfortable.

I could >> take my feet out a bit. I could lay back and it was so much better.

>> But it wasn't necessary to achieve the goal. >> Okay, let me ask you this. kind of feeling a bit guilty about it. Yeah.

>> That's Where's the story that you picked up? Where's it from?

That anything above necessary is wrong

or um morally bankrupt.

>> So, I guess my position isn't that it's wrong, morally bankrupt. I guess what I'm trying to avoid is kind of just going down >> the uh slippery slope of I just end up spending a lot of money on the things that I don't need, right? Just because it makes me feel better.

>> Okay. >> But but that's my question is what are some things that I should spend extra money on just because it adds a little extra comfort. >> Feeling better is okay. That's what I'm trying to get to. I I I

for me the I cross the line when I start thinking I deserve this.

>> Okay, >> that's when it crosses that's that's a moral line in my head that I don't ever want to cross.

But, you know, if you are going to a work trip and you get that, you pay that

extra $100 or whatever it is to get extra leg room on that flight and it lets you stretch out and let you sleep versus being cramped, then you're you walk a little bit taller, you're a little bit more rested and you can go handle yourself in that meeting a little bit better. And there's that's just a fact. That's a truth.

>> Yeah. Agreed. >> Okay. And so, if you want to get tactile

about it, we can put an ROI on that. I think it's a waste of time and money and effort.

The reality is if you can pay cash for it and you have it and it's something that will make your day a little bit better that >> do it. >> Do it. >> I mean, I I'll give you a little bit more practical because I I get it. I kind of have a checklist that I go through in my brain, Kevin, that is kind of the green light uh to quote Andre 3000 if I can do this right.

Uh so number one is am I a person who's out of debt? If the green light is yes, check it. Right? Then I say, am I a person who budgets their money?

Like, am I on a budget? Am is this part? Can I make this part of my budget? Yes.

Am I do I carry the proper insuranceances? Right? Have I done the things that I need to make sure I'm taking care of my family? Life insurance, term life insurance, that kind of thing.

Green light. Am I saving for the future? Right? Do do I have 3 to six months set aside?

Am I, you know, saving for a down payment for a home, which is also a form of savings? Am I doing those things that are important? Yes. And finally, have I prioritized generosity in my life?

If I'm doing those five things and I have five green lights, yeah, buy the upgraded seat.

know, do those things. They're fun.

Matter of fact, if you want another piece of this is for anybody listening, you should spend, if you've checked those five green lights, you should spend money on fun. Fun N. That is

upgrade your food, right? You're not eating Top Ramen anymore. Spend more on groceries is what I'm saying. You should spend money on upgrades. That's the U. Yeah, upgrade your your plane seat.

Upgrade your furniture. Upgrade your jeans. And finally, the N is for new experiences. Yeah, go on vacation. Go to

a concert you've never been to. We want you guys to enjoy spending money because that's what it's there for. Uh you get out of debt and you do all of this, John, so that so that you can increase

your leg room, so that you can have a better life quality with your money.

Like that's the whole point of this whole thing.

>> Remember, >> being comfortable isn't the worst thing.

>> You're right. Remember, there's only way to walk with there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of Jesus, Christ Jesus.

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## 271. You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything | June 5, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. George Camel Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at88255225.

It's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

John is in Fresno. Hey John, what's up in your world?

>> Hey, I'm a huge fan of both you guys.

Um, so I'm I'm debtree. I'm

self-employed. I've got six figures in the bank, but by contrast, my girlfriend

I've been with for four years. Uh, has

really, really bad spending habits. It's almost like she doesn't know the difference between what she needs and what she wants. And I'm trying to get her on board with some goals or some budgeting, but it's just really hard. You know, she's she's just overspending on a whole bunch of stuff.

And we're trying to move and leave California, and I just don't know how to move forward or what, you know, what to really do. >> Wow. How old is she?

>> Uh she is uh she's about to be 32.

>> What's she make? How much income?

>> Well, she would make about

16 to 1,800 a month, but she gives up a lot of her hours and she doesn't drive.

So, there's ride share. She's buying a lot of food at work instead of instead of cooking or packing something.

>> No, that wasn't I wasn't asking about her food. I was asking about her work.

Does she work full time or is she doing side gigs? >> What? No, I'm just saying that's where that's where a lot of the money goes. And then she doesn't have enough to pay for 1,600 bucks a month in California is poverty.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so where how did she

exist before you?

>> She lived with either friends or family,

but she used to walk to work. And

I guess it I guess it's never really been a lot of income for her. Mhm.

>> You guys live together? >> Yeah. They're talking about moving away together. >> So, you've been Have you been subsidizing some of this behavior? She can get away with it. Is that part of the issue?

>> A little bit. And I was going to say I really don't want to enable further, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> This is sticky, dude. It's really sticky. Okay. So, um, how old are you?

>> 33. What do you make?

>> Um, I'm doing pretty good. I I make uh So I am like a sideyear guy. Uh but I make about four to five a month.

>> Mhm. >> But I got I got a lot of bills. I drive >> talk about moving to where

>> uh Nevada. >> Why?

>> Uh no state income tax. I can actually

I can actually put a down payment on a condo, start building some equity. I don't know. >> Affordable real estate and less income and and no income tax. Okay, those are good reasons. All right. >> Also, not a big fan of California for other reasons. >> Okay. So, the um

the thing we know is the data tells us the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. These are people that are on two completely different pages. Not different personality styles, but different pages, different values completely. And so they spend their

married life driving each other crazy.

You being a tight wad that crosses every tea and dots every eye and doesn't come out of the cave except on triple coupe on Thursday. And her spending like she's in freaking Congress.

Never the twain shall meet, right?

>> Yeah. And so, um, I mean, I don't want

her to become a super tight wad nerd like you, although I think you're awesome. Uh, because I'm kind of that way, but I do want, she's a free spirit.

I do want her to maintain a free spirit.

But, um, in order to qualify as wife material, she would have to be more emotionally mature. And so far, this lady does just enough to get by. Thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday.

Who can help me out?

>> Yeah. and you've kind of got a little bit further vision. You're going to go a few places she's not going to get to go unless she goes with you. And uh as long

as she is engaged in this behavior and you are in this relationship, you are not going to be happy.

>> Am I wrong?

>> Don't think so. >> Okay. >> Is there anything you can say or do that you think would actually change her behavior?

>> I don't know. That's ultimately what I've been trying to figure out. I mean, I've been trying to give her some tips, you know, like, you know, stop.

>> It was a trick question. She's You can't change her. It's And here's the hard truth. She's either going to become emotionally mature while you're together or it's going to take the breakup for her to get her act together. And right

now, it feels like the option is she's going to have to learn it the hard way. If we switched gears and you said you had a daughter and she was dating a guy who spent everything he made, didn't work much and was out of control with

his impulses, you would look at your daughter and say, "Run away quickly, wouldn't you?"

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I'm going to tell you that except I don't want to be quite that brutal. But I am saying don't marry this.

Don't marry this. You're going to have a long life. It'll be miserable. and don't live together and don't move to Nevada together.

So, you guys need to sit down and, you know, like the teenagers used to say, define the relationship. Okay? If this is going towards marriage, then we are going to have to both be grown-ups. And that's going to require a reasonable level of spending control on your part where you still enjoy life, not nerdy like me, but you still enjoy life, but you control your spending.

and a reasonable level of work ethic on your part where you actually freaking work and work while you're at work and stuff like that. And um you know, work is not an excuse to eat. Work is an excuse to work.

you know, we're going to we're going to walk through those kinds of things. And I the lady you've described has a long

path to get to where I need her to be before I would want to marry her.

>> And don't move to Nevada with somebody and shack up with them that you're not going to marry. That's just weird sex.

>> Well, no, that wasn't The plan was to eventually marry if it could work.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, if you're going to get if you're going to move to Nevada together, get married, but don't get married until >> I wouldn't make the move until you figure this out. >> I I think you can move and then you continue the relationship long distance and just watch the behavior and say, "Honey, this is how I'm going to handle my life. You're going to be miserable with me because this is how I do things

and I'm going to be miserable with you because this is how I do things. And uh maybe we're not compatible, but let's talk about it. And do you want to work on that part of your life? And if you do, let's talk about it and we can continue forward. And this is kind of turning a a romance into a bit of a

formula. But dude, it's a formula.

I heard an old man tell me one time, he said, "If you marry a woman that loves to spend money, you better enjoy working." >> It's a good That's a good line right there. >> And of course, the shoe could be on the other foot, too, by the way. We could flip that over.

You know, I gotta upgrade. I gotta upgrade.

>> That's a tough one. You know, marriage is hard, but making your life even harder knowingly marrying someone. Yeah, >> that's tough. You want You want to marry someone who's going to make your life easier. So, John, we're not just bearers of tidings of good news today. I'm sorry, but um but I you know, I would sit down with her. Maybe you guys enter some couples counseling and begin to talk through these things. But the deal is, if this behavior pattern continues,

neither one of you are going to enjoy it.

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Mary is in Pittsburgh.

Uh, there she is. Hey, Mary's in Pittsburgh. What's up, Mary? >> Hi. Hi, guys. I'm so excited to have you have me today. Um I really appreciate your show. You've taught me so much.

I've learned so much about finances and

I'm 66 years old.

>> Um we've recently paid off all our debt.

We paid off two cars in 5 years.

>> Wow. >> $80,000.

>> And I we only have 10,000 in our emergency fund and about 10,000 in my

401k. And he's a 1099. He has nothing.

>> Wow. >> So, >> okay. Does either of you have a pension coming in?

>> No.

>> Okay. >> No, we're renting. We have a low rent of 1,900. >> And what do y'all make? What's your income? >> Uh, it's about 125.

>> Okay. What do y'all do?

>> Um, I work for a nursing home. Um,

recent it's a recent job and he is an ISA.

>> Okay. All right. Um,

well, the good news is you have no debt.

Do you have no debt on your house as well? >> We're renting. >> You're renting. Okay.

>> Yeah, we've been renting for 10 years and I wanted to buy a house now that we are free, but I I don't know.

>> Mhm. >> I have no money.

>> No, you don't. Um, so um

Wow.

Okay. Number number one, I think the two of you need to look at each other and say, "We're going to be working a while." >> Yeah. >> We're not going to be like retiring next week. Um, and we're going to be working a lot because we have some catching up to do. We're behind.

>> Um, and so, you know, I I would think

about getting a very very modest house or condo that I put on a 15-year or even

a 10-year fixed rate >> mortgage. Very modest. And uh that's

after you save up a good down payment.

Meanwhile, I would get start putting at least 15% of your income away for

retirement. That's $15,000 a year.

That's not much. In 10 years, that's only $150,000. And that will only become about 350 or 400,000 uh by the 10 year mark, which makes you 76 years old >> with a couple hundred,000 in a paid for house >> if you pay the house off in 10 years because you buy very modestly.

>> Okay, >> but that's 10 years of hard work and you know, you can end up with a couple hundred two $300,000 and a paid for

house and if you just do those two things. But again, the house has to be super modest.

>> Yes. >> I mean, like, you're not proud of it, but it is yours, >> right? I love it. There's hope.

>> Yeah. >> I'm so happy. Yeah. >> This made my day. >> Yeah. So, I mean, but putting 15% of your income away, can both of you agree to do that and work 10 years?

>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. You're both hard workers. Um, I picked up this part-time job. I'm making like 40,000 here. I work

like 29 hours a week, but I get the social security. And then August, Dave, I get to make as much as I want for social security, not to take money out.

So, I'm excited for August.

>> I'm going full-time. Dave, thanks for from listening to you guys pushing us to do. Why don't you sit down with your smart investor pro and uh set up a

couple of Roth IAS and anything else you can come up with to set aside and let's get that going into some good growth stock mutual funds and then start chunking money aside as fast as you can for a big down payment on a small house.

>> All right. >> Yeah. And and but let's you know lay it all out to where in 10 years you're with a paid for house and 10 years of 15,000

you're going to be putting in more than that you're going to be putting in about 25,000. So 10 years will be uh 250,000

plus what would that grow to? You have 10,000 >> I crunch it for 10 years if they invest their 15% with no increase in income.

They'll be at about 350K at 76.

>> Yeah. And a paid for house and social security coming in. You'll be okay.

>> It's modest. Yeah. It's not like lavish, but you'll survive and not be eating, >> you know, rice and beans forever hopefully. >> But here here's the trick, Mary.

Whatever you have done for the first 66

years, you can't do any of that.

All of that was wrong. It got you to this point.

So, you have got to spend the next 10 years doing exactly the right things or

you're going to be in a real mess.

So, I mean, you got to you got to really treat this like this is a a serious health diagnosis. We've got to get with it and you got to lean into this. Uh

because that's a that's a tough 10 years from 76 or 66 to 76.

>> Ouch.

Hey guys, if you're um

19 years old or 22 years old, that lady

calling was sent as a message to you

from God.

$100 a month

from age 25 to age 65.

$100

is 1,176,000 in your mutual fund when you're age 25.

Did you hear that it's tougher to wait

till 66 to start? 22y old. Are you

hearing me? 19-year-old, are you hearing me? 24 year old that loves to go to

happy hour, loves fine dining, and wants to lease a freaking Tesla. Are you hearing me?

This is She was sent that call, that lady calling, that sweet lady, and she's precious. Sweet lady calling was a message to you if you're in your 20s, Gen Z. She She was sent to you today,

don't you think, George? >> Yeah. Well, you know, I've actually run the numbers on this and it's fascinating to see what a dollar is worth at 20 invested versus 55 or 60. And the truth

is this. If you're 20 years old and you invest a dollar, there's a 73x return.

That dollar turns into $73 at 65. But

when you invest that same dollar at 55, it's maybe worth 4x instead of 70x.

>> Instead of $73, you got $4.

>> Exactly. That's the actual compound growth max,000.

Put 100,000 of those on it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So 100,000 is 7.3 million, right?

>> Yeah. >> Or 100,000 is 400,000.

>> That's the math. >> There's a difference. >> That's the wild math behind it. So if you're young, >> holy gramoly. >> So here's the message. If you're young, you're thinking, well, I'll save later.

Let me enjoy my 20s and I'll save later when I'm in my 40s, 50s, 60s. Later never comes, unfortunately, cuz life happens. Life gets in the way. When you're young, man, you got some income coming in. Put it away. You can still enjoy life, but invest some.

>> I graduated from college with a finance

degree, and no one ever showed me

>> what you just outlined. >> Just compound growth. >> The power of compound interest. Edison called it the eighth wonder of the world. The power of compound interest.

And and and and the secret to that is the earlier you start, the more you have. And and so it it's not it doesn't even require big sacrifice. It just requires intentionality. If you start earning, >> it's really not about the income or the amount you put away.

>> It's the intentionality. It's like >> because you don't need to put as much away when you're 20. >> You know, honestly, the ability to delay pleasure is one of the big psychological

insights to someone that is are indicators of someone who is emotionally mature. Emotionally m children do what

feels good. adults devise a plan and follow it. And sometimes children are 56

and sometimes they're s they're 16.

Sometimes adults are 56 and sometimes they're 16. I mean, we talked to some 19year-olds on here that are way more mature than some of the 52 year olds.

>> And way wealthier. >> Yeah. Well on their way because it's only going to take a dollar.

Goodness. A 100,000 bucks becomes 7.3 million. >> It's pretty wild. And that's a onetime dollar or monthly dollar. >> I mean, that's for every dollar you put in, you're going to get 73 out in retirement. That's the craziest part.

So, I'm telling you, if you're 20 and you're listening or 25 or even 30, you got time on your side. Compound growth is going to do the heavy lifting. And as you get older, it can't lift as much because it needs time. Time is the magic ingredient in wealth building.

>> Yeah. The shorter the time frame, the more of the money that you put in is what's going to be there. >> Contributions. >> Yeah. Your contribution is going to be equal to or more than the growth.

>> If you're 20 or 30, 90% plus is compound

growth >> of what you're going to end up with is going to be growth that you did nothing for. >> You don't need to save up a million dollars to have a million. >> Intentionality.

Wow. Powerful.

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Stephanie is in Omaha, Nebraska. Hi Stephanie. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, okay. So, I am calling today because

um I guess I have a little bit of concerns. Me and my husband have been married going on three years and we're

expecting our second child this year. Um our finances are completely separate and

u we decided this once this baby's here

that would be staying home. So, I'm just

kind of concerned since our finances have always been so separate. Uh,

obviously we have things that we need to figure out.

>> Boy, you are beating around the bush in a Nebraska kind of way. What the flip is there? What's really going on?

>> So, I am 8 years younger than my husband.

So, he has quite a bit of working years over me. And when we met, I was fairly

young. Um, I was only 18 when we first met. >> You were 18?

>> Yes. And you're how old now?

>> 26. >> Okay.

>> Yes. So, um, our financial situations

have always been a lot different obviously with his with our age gap. I mean, I've been working a full-time job since I was 14 years old. So, being in the working field is nothing new to me.

Um, although because of I guess my age

and I don't want to use my age as an excuse because there's a lot of people who make a lot of money that are my age or younger. So, um, I guess just with my

experience and what I do have to offer on the table as far as job-wise, I don't always get like high salary paying jobs.

Um, I start usually low. See, all of

that pre All of that has to do with It sounds like you think you have to earn your right to be a wife.

>> Like you're not equal if you don't make equal money.

>> Yeah. That >> when you got married, the the the vow said richer for poorer, sickness and in health.

>> Yeah. >> Your vote doesn't scale with income.

>> Yeah. I >> You should have had a vote day one regardless of your income level if he decided to do life with you. So, what was the real reason you guys never combined?

>> Um, he thinks that I'm financially irresponsible with my money.

>> There it is. >> I don't We just got to the real disagree with him. >> Yeah, >> it's like I I was always someone and

obviously this is something I'm trying to work on. Okay, just stop a second.

Okay, >> so the marriages that are successful

relationally >> and that are successful financially do not operate like yours.

>> Yeah, >> that's why you're calling. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> And um so you're not his daughter even

though he thinks because he makes more and he's older that he's going to treat you like that. And so you're in timeout.

because you didn't behave.

That is not a That's not a healthy marriage relationship.

>> That's bull crap.

>> Okay, that's from a guy that's been married 43 years. That's bull crap. All

right. So, um you you don't earn your

vote in the house, as George said, based on the income that you produce or based on your age. Neither one. You both get a

vote the day you say I do. And both votes are equal the day you say I do.

Period. >> Yes. >> Period. And this is the way marriages function that we have studied thousands

and thousands of them that become millionaires and that have high quality, high satisfaction marriages.

It's not a it's not a father-daughter relationship. No one is punitive.

We might argue, but we argue from a level playing field about what our goals

are going to be, not what I want to do versus what you want to do, >> but we argue about where we want to go.

And you guys are a long, long way from

that. And it brings me great fear

because now that you're having another child at his request, >> um now you're not going to be working at all, which means you don't even not only not have a vote, um now you have to apply for welfare with him.

>> Yeah. >> This is the way this character acts and

um he has had bad training somewhere.

Someone has told him this is the way to do it and he's wrong.

I'm not being unclear, am I?

No, you're being perfectly clear.

>> Good. Okay. >> And I I do agree with you. >> We've taken this call. So, let me show you the future. He's going to give you an allowance, quote unquote, because he's going to treat you like his daughter, and he will about how you spend it. >> Yeah. And then Yeah. And then he'll shrink it based on your behavior and how he feels about it. >> Yeah. >> While you're trying to take care of the family and the kids. >> So, no, today this ends.

>> The worm turns. Today, as Shakespeare said, the worm turned. So, uh, that's it. It's over. And we're going to sit down and honey, we're going to be on an equal playing field. We're both going to have all of our names on all the accounts. It is now our house, our income, our bed, our kids, our future,

or our is going to see a marriage counselor.

>> Yeah. >> And we're going to get some marriage help. And we probably need to do that anyway cuz at a minimum, you guys need some new tools to on how to do marriage.

Your your tool belt is really empty.

It is. >> Yeah. And so I'm not being mean, but I am the things that are going through your mind. I don't want you ever coming at this discussion again from a subpar,

substandard, I'm not as good as

position. Don't you ever use that language again in your house

because you're not subpar. You're not substandard. You're younger. You had a different career path. Whoopdeoopty.

You're his wife.

The old marriage vows in the old days out of the book of common prayer where we get richer for poor, sickness, and in health. Unto thee. Yeah. The the rest of it used to say, "Unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge."

Boy, we ought to add that one back into the marriage vow, shouldn't we? All of us. My job is now to love you so well

that you are cared for and you have a vote.

Hello. That's service. Real leadership

is service.

That's real leadership.

So I we're we're on your side. I'm not

going to I'm not angry with him, but the way he's acting is not going to prosper you. It's not going to prosper your children. It's not going to prosper him.

And it's going to create a life of resentment, bitterness, and anger. And you guys are not going to enjoy the next 10 years. And your children are not going to grow up in a good house because this is not the way people are supposed to interact, kiddo. We always say more is caught than taught. And those kids are going to see the way dad treats mom and mom gets an allowance if she's a good girl. And that's a sad way to live.

And I think for too long, Laura has believed the lies that he has told her.

>> That would be Stephanie. But yeah. >> Oh yes. Or Stephanie.

I'm sorry. And so part of this is >> Laura might too. But this one >> may as well. But you know, I think if she went to a counselor on her own, the counselor would say, "I'm seeing a pattern of gaslighting and narcissism and all these sort of trendy words." But I think there's a control mechanism here.

>> Yeah. It it's just an older guy that's used to being in control and he's just is still in control. That's all it is.

That might be overstating it. And it's not gaslighting. He didn't tell her she's crazy. He just said she was insufficient, that she was deficient.

And so he needs she needs to follow and do what he says. >> It's a control mechanism for sure. No question about that. But I don't know if we go so far as to throw trendy overused

u poorly defined words at it.

>> Uh you know, Tik Tok psychology, but yeah. >> Yeah, that's Jeez. Yeah, that's that that's the thing right there. Wow. >> It's one of our most controversial takes is that we believe couples should combine their life including their finances. I don't know why how it became so controversial.

>> You should have a joint checking account. >> It's kind of like we teach people to live on less than they make. >> Controversial. >> Controversial. >> Who are you to tell me? >> Get out of debt. Controversial.

Save money and become a millionaire.

Controversial.

>> Buy a house you can afford and don't buy one until you can. Oh, that's controversial. >> You're out of touch. >> You're out of touch, Dave. You're a boomer. You bought your house with a box of strawberries.

It was bartered for.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Period.

Laura's in Sacramento. Hey, Laura.

What's up? >> Hi. I'm so happy to speak to two of my favorite people. Um, I've been following

you uh since 2013 and I am debtree and I

have a house in the Sacramento area. Um,

but I have since moved in the last year

uh to a very rural and remote property.

Um, and I cash flowed it and I lived for

a year in a travel trailer. Um, because I bought it, you know, for cash and also I wanted to make sure if a fire came through, I could evacuate if I had enough time with my house. Um, since living here for a year, I've found that, you know, I would like something a little more permanent. However, I also don't want to have to pay fire insurance because according to my neighbors, it's between 10 and $12,000 a year. Um, also

I get So, okay, I'll stop there and say,

um, so I'm thinking about building a mobile home, which I know mobile homes are not a good investment. However, I still own my home in Sacramento as far as an investment. I rent it out to traveling nurses, so every uh 90 days is

a turnover, and I make sure that it's in great condition. Um, so I wanted to get

your opinion. Is it still a bad idea to cash flow a mobile home to have something a little more permanent, but to save on uh it insurance basically to

not have to pay the fire insurance knowing I'm taking the risk if a fire comes through?

>> Okay. So, what would the mobile home cost? >> The mobile home is about $100,000. I say

>> so. it's worth 10 thou when it's worth 10,000 later when it goes down in value.

>> How how do we how do we put this in the smart column >> when it goes from 100 to 10,000?

>> I'm wanting to say that instead of being an investment, it is a consumable good.

It is something that I live in.

>> Yeah. But if you put the same 100,000 in a house, it would have gone up in value.

>> Yes. But I would feel much worse if a fire came through and burnt it down. And I would feel compelled to get that fire insurance. Yeah, I would too. I would too. But the thing is you're losing $90,000.

That's a lot of feelgood.

>> Yeah, it's true. >> You're saving 10 grand to lose 10 grand every year in that mobile home.

>> Oo. >> Yeah. >> So, it's I don't think it's as good a deal. >> You'll lose more than 10 the first year on the mobile home.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

So, beyond uh cost or I guess the financial component, is there anything else about mobile homes? I guess I shouldn't say that. >> No, that's it. That's the only thing. It goes down in value. If they went up in value, I'd shut up. >> Then you'd be okay with it. All right.

All right. >> But I mean, it's a car. It's a car you sleep in. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> It goes down in value. Maybe >> it's a modified it's a it's an in increased >> depreci increased in uh cost depreciating consumable item. It's a bigger version of their travel trailer that you don't want to live in anymore.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> In terms of math, that's the math on it.

That's my only problem. I mean, one of my good friends owns one of the largest companies in the world that does those things and he's like, "Dave, would you quit trashing it?" I'm, "Well, yeah, as soon as they start going up in value, I'll quit trashing it." But they're not going to go up in value. So, um, would I do that? No, I would not do that.

I would pay the fire insurance and I'd build a house. >> Okay. Yes, that was my then my second question.

>> It sounds like you do need to because you don't have the money.

>> Oh, I have I have money.

>> How much money?

>> Uh, so I currently have 130,000 in cash

to build a mobile home. But before I build it, I >> You're not building a mobile home. You're buying a mobile home. Other people build them at a factory and they send it to you. It's on wheels. Remember Exact. No, exactly. But it's also putting it on the foundation here, putting, you know, getting the water through or all that. So that's why >> Yeah. Which you're going to do with the house anyway. Yeah. >> Exactly. Exactly. It's just the the gut

of >> Yeah. What What is the house in the valley worth?

>> It's worth uh $500,000 and I own it outright. >> I would sell that and build a house for cash.

>> Oh, yeah. I just >> Let me ask you this. If you owned a house on this wonderful piece of property that you love >> and it was 100% paid for and it was worth $600,000 >> and you did not own a rental property with nurses in it, >> would you would you borrow on your paid for home to go buy a rental property?

>> Oh, no. No. >> It's the same thing.

>> Wouldn't borrow either way. It's >> It's the same thing when you don't sell the rental property and end up borrowing to build the house. It's the same thing.

>> Yeah. If I build a house, I would need to save longer before building the house. I wouldn't sell, you know, I would stay in a travel trailer longer until I have the money to build the house outright or I would do it. I would cash flow it. You would >> I wouldn't, but I wouldn't have been in the travel trailer in the first place cuz I'm a snob. So, yeah. I mean, for

the weekend maybe, but after that, I' I'm done. >> If you're camping, I might see Dave in there. >> And you know, if you did see me in there, I would be without Sharon. That'd be the other thing. So, >> Sharon's not stepping foot in that. She will not darken the door of that. He's like, "Good luck with that theory, bub." Yeah, >> she's more of a glamper.

>> Especially these days. Okay. So, >> but yeah, owning a home is a long-term decision. So, you want to think long term 10 years from now, was this a good idea? >> Yeah. >> And that's the problem with >> people get, you know, because they're,

you know, what almost always, and in her case it is, too, what almost always drives the mobile home decision is, I don't have the money. >> Mhm. >> And so, I'm going to cheap out. and you can cheap out and for 100 grand you can buy something you can sleep in and um and they're fairly nice at 100 grand.

I mean it's a pretty nice one, you know, it's not a bad one. They make them up to 300 or 400 or whatever, but um I mean 100 grand's no that's a pretty nice place. But you're right.

And then people also get confused and rationalized with, oh well the property went up in value. Yeah, but it was going to go up in value whether it had a house on it or whether it had a mobile home on it. And don't just because it don't don't confuse that with a mobile home went down in value. It still went down in value. Like 100% of things with cars

with with wheels and or motors, if it

has a motor, it has wheels, it's going to go down in value.

Period.

Your little John Deere tractor that you paid $8,000 to mow your quarter acre lot with and you financed with John Deere finance

is going to go down in value. Your seed is going to go down in value. Your Mastercraft, I got two of them. They're going to go down in value. The world's best skiboat, thank you very much. It goes down in value. They're fabulous.

They go down in value.

That collectible Corvette I have in my basement is going down in value. And it's a collectible.

They any And George, your battery with wheels, your Tesla is going down in value. >> We I know that the hard way. I'm trying to sell it right now. Nobody wants it, Dave. >> You can't give that thing. Nobody wants a battery. >> Nobody's in the market for like an iPhone 4. You know that they want the latest and greatest. You're buying technology here.

>> But it's true. It's why we say pay cash.

>> Age. Well, >> if you're going to buy a depreciating asset, always pay cash.

>> And honestly, you get you feel like right now you're trying to get rid of that car and nobody's you can't get rid of it. That's one bad feeling. It would be triple bad if you had financed that >> if I was underwater on it >> and you're sitting there paying payments and you can't give it away.

>> Now you got like Now you got lots of pissed off. Now you're just moderately aggravated. >> Yeah. Just a light stupid tax on something I enjoyed. >> Yeah. And and well the the other problem with it is you know I'm going to make fun of you. So that's the other problem.

>> So >> I almost thought you might want to buy it just to troll me with it. But I figure you're not going to put money into that. >> Could we like put it in the front yard and plant flowers? That's what I was thinking.

I thought you were going to like, you know, take, you know, take it to the farm, take it out back. >> Oh, we could shoot it >> and just destroy it. >> We could take the Barrett 50 cow and shoot it. >> It's cheaper than some of these fancy hunting trips that you go on.

So, I figure >> it would be fun.

>> We can make a video out of it. Let's charge it to the company. >> You know what, Dave? I like the way you're thinking. You You run the thing. So, >> we'll get the We'll get the uh Instagram team out there. >> Hey, team, clip this out. I want to be able to use this in a court of law.

Yeah. >> When I make Dave buy. >> It's not It's not happening. But it's just it was a good it was you had a moment there. >> I uh that was close. >> It was close. >> Oh man. Whether it's a Tesla or mobile home, it's going down in value.

>> Elon Musk would be so pissed if we took that thing out to the farm and just blew the hell out of >> I think he's got a sense of humor. He might enjoy it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Frank is

with us in Asheville, North Carolina.

Hi, Frank. How are you?

>> I'm doing pretty well, Dave. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, um throughout the the marriage with my wife in the last three and a half years, um we have been using our

one credit card for covering some of the four walls like groceries and transportation, but we've been covering um mortgage and utilities with our

checking account. And um and we also use

the credit card for like health insurance premium and medical expenses

and even some other life in expenses.

So we pay it off every month and it feels like we give ourselves some room uh before we pay off the credit card um

each month but you know then using our savings as quickly. So, I guess one of my thoughts are or one of my questions is what are your thoughts on using the credit card for some of the four walls, even if it's not the long-term solution.

>> Yeah. Well, you you've obviously not listened to the show much, right?

>> Uh, we've listened a lot, but I guess one of the reasons that we're holding on to the credit card is, you know, some of the >> I mean, you understand that your question is completely perpendicular to everything we teach for the last 30 years, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I just want I mean I'm trying to understand if you understand what you're walking into.

>> Mhm. >> It's a warning. >> I'm I'm asking I mean I'm being I'm not trying I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just saying so the answer to your question is that's dumber than crud.

Okay. Now, why is it dumb? All right.

Several reasons. Number one is there's not a singular piece of wealth building research that indicates that what you're doing causes you to build wealth. Mhm.

>> Not a single instance. We studied 10,167

millionaires. The number of them that do the what you're doing is precisely zero.

Rich people don't do what you're doing.

Broke people do.

Okay. So, that that's a bad sign. Now,

is it going to cause you to go bankrupt?

Probably not. But the problem is is that you actually have somehow used your decision-making framework around money to convince yourself that this is a good idea and that that this is somehow going

to get you ahead more than simply investing.

Investing is where money comes from.

Living on less than you make is where money comes from. Not from trying to trick City Bank.

And and so the number of millionaires that became millionaires by adding up all their airline miles is precisely zero. None of them. Not one. Broke

people chase airline miles.

78% of the airline miles are never redeemed.

And yet people spend a lot of brain calories chasing this bull crap that these ripoff

huge banks are screwing America with.

and then convinced you that it's a good idea to dance to their tune.

I mean that now are you losing money when you pay a health insurance bill that is a health insurance bill whether you pay it with cash it's exact same amount can't possibly change. No, you're not losing money doing that. Are you losing money when you buy when you pay a

uh an electric bill that is going to be the same amount whether you pay it with a card or whether you pay it with cash?

it. You're not losing a dime. When you go and you're you're buying your groceries, you're spending more.

The best merchandisers on the planet are grocery stores. When you walk through a grocery store, you are walking through a scientific lab that is very carefully

designed what is on what shelf, at what level, and what color more than any

other type of physical product on the planet. Grocery stores are brilliant

merchandisers. The chances that you walk out of there spending more than you meant to, regardless of what methodology you use, are very high cuz they're very,

very good at it. And it started back in

the 1950s with a simple thing of they put the necessities at the back of the store, the bread, the milk, and the eggs because so you had to walk through the rest of the store and impulse on the candy. And Wrigley's became multi-bazillionaires.

The Wrigley family have a fabulous mansion in Phoenix. Fabulous. By putting

sticks of gum wear at the checkout, the impulse proper. So, this is these are just the beginnings of the sophistication that I'm talking about.

So, 100% chance you spend more in a grocery store than you meant to. And when you put it on a credit card, all the data, all the research says that you are spending somewhere between 12 and 18% more than you would have spent if you spent cash because cash activates the pain centers of the brain. And credit cards don't.

When you lay down a $100 bill in the grocery store and Uncle Ben looks at you and says, "What are you doing?"

What are you doing? When you lay down a credit card, City Bank says, "Thank you.

What's in your wallet?" Samuel L. Jackson, my money is in your wallet. Not my money, but his money is in your wallet to pay for them stinking commercials that you did. That's what's in your wallet. We know what's in your wallet. a lot of City Bank's money.

>> Here's the fun math on this. Let's say you put $60,000 of your take-home pay on

that credit card to cover these bills and you got 2% cash back. 1 $1,200 bucks is what you got, right? For the year.

>> I'm exhausted for 1,200 bucks >> for the year. So, here's what I want to challenge Frank with. Frank, if no one has taken me up on this challenge, for one year, switch to on a budget using debit card and cash and see if you don't spend less than that 1,200 bucks a year, which then negates all the rewards you got. And my guess is you're going to find that you spent thousands less by using your own money, leaving your bank account now versus using someone else's money that you can pay back later.

>> 100% chance. >> Take me up on it. >> Yeah, you're stepping over stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. stepping off dollars to pick up pennies.

Yeah. And and so here and and so no, Frank, I would not do what you're doing. That that's the reason. The biggest reason though is not the $1,200.

The biggest reason is is while you were focusing on the $1,200. You were missing

the real way to build wealth because you had your eye on the wrong thing and you

were thinking this method works.

>> It's a distraction. >> I tell it's the exact same. Here's it's the same problem I got with Acorn. with Acorns that app. Yeah. Yeah. Where you put pennies, you know, you round everything up, your >> spare change can go. >> Put your spare change in there. And and people are screwing around with that with with 14 cents while they should

have been putting 350 bucks in their 401k. And they use the same brain calories to chase down the 14 cents that they would have done to set their 401k up and retire a multi-millionaire. So >> in their mind, they've checked the box that I am investing. If I ask them, are you investing? scratch the edge and you think it's okay. You're not investing.

You're a child with a piggy bank. That's not investing.

>> Children with piggy banks have $14 when they're four years old. And that's what you're going to have in your freaking Acorns app. It's the same thing. There's nothing evil about it. They're not ripping people off, but they took your eye off the ball and you're you're focusing your decision-making paradigm and framework around the wrong things.

And so that's the problem. And 100% of

the time the city bank tells you to do something. It's something you should not do. >> It is in their best interest.

>> It's not for you. It's for Samuel L. Jackson. They got to pay him. He's expensive. >> Jennifer Garner is not cheap.

>> 100% chance that Patrick Mahomes cost

State Farm a bunch of money. Who you think paid for that?

Oh, you people that buy from State Farm?

She have if you not priced your dad gum

homeowners insurance, you can beat it with almost anybody if you got State Farm cuz you got I don't have to pay Patrick Mah homes.

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Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

We're glad you're here. Ashley is in Bend, Oregon. Hi, Ashley. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Um, so um, my husband and I have given been given kind of a once in a-lifetime opportunity. We have a family friend that is fairly wellto-do. Um her and her

husband own about five homes throughout the state. Um one of which is far over

in eastern Oregon and they are getting older and have offered for us to

basically at a zero a month lease this

property from them um to allow us to

essentially build my horse training business and kind of start a ranching dream that we've had. Um we our hiccup

is we both have extremely good jobs where we're at. Um all of our family is here so on so forth and it's just a big

leap. So we're not sure if we should do it. >> What are your what do you guys make at your extremely good jobs?

>> Um so we both are in the construction industry. He makes about 110,000 a year.

I make 75 and then I train horses on the

side and make about 50,000 from that.

Mhm. But of course, you would lose all of that clientele because you're moving far away. >> Um, not necessarily. So, my business is based on developing young horses and then selling them.

So, I don't necessarily have like a monthly clientele, per se. It's more of >> Oh, so where you train the horses that you sell doesn't matter. >> So, you wouldn't you wouldn't lose the 50. >> Correct.

And I mean, the idea would be to substantially grow that. No, >> I understand. But, I mean, you would not lose the 50.

>> Yes, sir. >> If everything Well, unless something really bad goes wrong. Okay.

>> Correct. >> And um >> so uh how rural is this area? Why can your husband not work?

>> So he can um and that would be the idea

over there. The town is about 140 people. So it's very rural. Um I guess

it just wouldn't be what he sits at now.

From what we've researched, probably about 70 or 80,000 is what he would make a year. Um, that being said, >> out of 140 people,

>> um, the county has has some like management positions that are opening that I think he would be a very big benefit to them. He's a foreman for a construction company now.

So, um, I think he probably he has some skills that would definitely

be of interest to them. I would say um I

am 30 and he is 31.

>> How far away is this place from where you are now? >> About 5 hours.

>> How many kids do you have?

>> None. >> Okay.

All right. And so we would be moving from 110 on him down to 70. And we'd be

moving your income that you're losing is you're keeping the 50 on the horse. What's the income you're losing?

>> Um about 70 I have. So, it's $110,

$120,000 shift initially, assuming you don't

assuming you don't. That's if he gets a $70,000 job and you can retain your 50 on the horses without any without any increase. Yeah, I got you.

>> And I have thought about grabbing something remote while I build the horse thing up more and more. Um, maybe getting something part-time to remote to kind of help that gap be smaller.

>> Yeah. Or like full-time. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Or full-time. And these people will let you use this land and house for free is what you're saying.

>> Yeah. So, they don't get over there very much and it's obviously hard to maintain a property that's also 5 hours away from them. Um, they've just held on to it because they like visiting there twice a year essentially. >> Do you own a home? >> Um, yes sir, we do.

We have um right at about $100,000 in equity in that and I do currently run

the horse business out of that. Like it's not something that I have to move to do that. I I run it out of my house now. >> Um this is just I mean it's 1500 acres

and >> but it's not yours. It's not going to be yours. >> Correct. >> Correct. Yes. >> That's my fear is long term. You don't own this and it could shift hands. So, so 10 years from now, from now, what does winning look like? You don't own any real estate. He's still working a county job and you've grown a horse business.

>> Yes. >> That's what winning looks like 10 years from now. >> I think the idea would be potentially to

grow the business and I guess buy a place of our own. The expenses there

would be essentially next to nothing.

Um, you know, I guess it would just be utilities. Um, and the money. >> So, what's the mortgage on your house today? The MAP balance, >> um, 410.

>> Okay. And so, if you took a hundred and went and bought a $500,000 ranch in some area that sounded like this, you could keep about the same mortgage amount and be on a ranch.

>> Yeah. >> And do this deal. And do this deal, but own it.

>> Yeah. And that's I mean like that's kind of been our plan was to just stay where we are and you know obviously work to make that dream come true. They have just offered this to us and um

>> yeah I'm not I'm not I'm just not sure it's a blessing. I was trying to figure out if it is >> it lowers your expenses but it moves you away from ownership long term.

>> Yeah. And you're you're um >> and it also >> and you know everything's dependent upon how long will they how long a lease will they give you for a dollar a year? Um,

she basically has told us infinite. Um, I bull crap.

>> She she went as far as telling me that she will put it in her will that the kids cannot sell the home until we decide we're done with the property.

>> Do you understand? That's weird.

>> It is very weird. Um, and

>> so strange I'm now spooked.

>> Yeah, this is weird >> that they wouldn't give it to their kids. >> Yeah. as long as you guys are alive.

Essentially, our friend that raises horses gets priority over our entire family with our 1500 acres. Nah,

>> I think where she comes from is at is her kids are very well to do and they're >> I know, but I my kids are well to do, but I'm not doing that for you.

>> Okay, >> Dave's not giving me his weird can't live there for free. I don't care, George. Shut up. >> But I love horses, Dave.

>> I know. Well, you're known for your horse love. >> I'm just glad I met someone who's in the business of selling horses. makes me feel better. >> Oh, wow. Yeah, your her job is to do what you tell people to do. Who knew?

>> Made a career out of it. >> Um, okay. I um

I don't know. I I it I I got to admit the uh the romance of it I've kind of caught on to. Okay.

>> Cuz 1500 acres um you know, are we all

Yellowstone junkies? Is that our problem? Um but yeah uh anyway the um

>> and it's like it's not very >> I don't like the business aspect of it.

>> Okay. >> The only way I would tell you to do this is if you pledge to yourself at the end of 5 years that you have your own place

or you leave. Period.

>> Okay. >> We're not going to stay here longer than 5 years. >> Okay. >> Would they sell it to you?

>> Yeah. But the >> Yeah, but they can't afford it >> to I mean, she put it at 2.8 million.

>> Perfect. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and so number one, I would put a time limit on it. Um and you can

return to construction and you can return to the life you have now fairly easily, plus or minus your current job.

Okay. >> Yeah. And I I was >> if this thing all blows up and and isn't fun and you hate living out in the middle of nowhere after all. I took a call from a lady yesterday who said, "We bought our f we bought our dream home with a bunch of acreage and we hate it.

What do we do now?" And I'm like, "Well, you sell it and you move back to the cityun." And so, um, you know, the uh green

acres, but the uh um Yeah. Wow. Anyway,

the the other thing that's bothering me,

I'm just going to get it all out. Okay.

Cuz you called and asked and I really like talking to you. Thank you. Because you you really have a level head for somebody doing a whole thing on based on romance >> and and that this is a very romantic story. It's a very cool >> very cool story. I mean the the people that are infinitely generous that are infinitely wealthy and their children don't even care. I mean this is strange.

And so um >> that's sweet but it's weird. And so um

>> yeah I'd put a five-year limit on it.

Number one. Number two, I want you and your husband to do some prayerful soulsearching because this entire adventure

is based on your desire to run a horse business.

Nothing else. That's 100% the driver of

this. And is that really what you want to be the driver of your whole life? Cuz nothing else. We're doing everything else in this story to serve that one

thing. And that's bothersome.

You know, when I became a dad, something flipped. Suddenly, it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore. It was what happens to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent.

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We'll give you some help. Emily's in Chicago. Hi, Emily. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help? Um well um I'm 55

years old and I've got four grown children. Um when my husband my first

husband passed away nine years ago and left me with some life insurance money, I had a revocable living trust created with my four children as a beneficiary.

Um my house is fully paid for and it's titled to the trust.

So, I got remarried four years ago to a

wonderful man. Um, and he moved into this house with me and he of course

helps with some living expenses and upkeep here and everything. And the house is rising in value. So, my question is, how much equity should I

give my second husband in this house? It

was fully paid for before we got married. But I am fair to both him and

the kids. >> Well, the only way you could is if you restructure the trust. Right.

>> Right. Which I am about to do. Actually, I have an appointment here in about 3 weeks. >> So, restructure you're have that appointment. Why?

>> Um, well, I was already going to make some amendments now that my kids are no longer minors. So, while I'm doing that,

I thought I would amend the trust in

some way so that if something happens to me, >> what is the size of your estate?

>> Um, my house now is worth about 500,000.

I do have um I don't have any debt. Um,

I do have some retirement investments and some savings in an accessible

um, investment account. I've always lived on a zerobased budget and I think grand total mine would be about 1.2 million actually. >> And what have you done with all of that in regards to your current husband?

>> Um, nothing yet. All of that is has all

been in a um in in the trust that I had

before. >> So everything you have was put into this trust. >> Yeah, it feel like it were before I met him. >> Why? Um why was it put in a trust?

>> Um when my first husband died, my

financial advisor just said, "This is what you need to do." And he just did all those things for me. So you don't even know why.

Not exactly. A will except for to I guess if something were to happen to me

the only take care of it. A will would take care of it. You don't have to operate everything else. >> You designate a beneficiary on these accounts and you don't need to put it in the trust. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I already do have the trust

>> and I'm not sure you need it.

>> Oh, okay. Um Well, how much >> you might, but I'm not sure you need it. And and I don't like that you don't even know why it's there.

And yet, and yet this trust is running around. We're doing all this stuff to we're serving a trust that we don't know why it exists. Because I don't know why it exists. I'm not sure why you need one. You don't need one for estate tax planning. You don't have an estate tax problem. I'm sure of that. Um, if you

were trying to protect it from something, then you could use a trust for that. But I don't know who we're protecting it from.

>> Um, >> kind of them. Um, I want to make sure that I want to make sure that >> Well, if you leave the house, if you have if if you're a widowed lady and you have a house and you say in your will the house goes to my four kids, 100% of the time it goes to your four kids.

>> You don't need a trust to do that.

>> Should I though give some of that to my husband since he my second husband? >> Well, that's a separate discussion.

First thing I'm talking about is the structure of your finances. Okay? And the structure of your finances, I don't know why you're doing this. So, I want you to get some estate planning advice.

And if you're going to keep the trust, I want you to have a real good reason why

you have it and why you're keeping it. I don't know why your million three is in a trust. Mine's not.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And I'm I'm your age and I've got more >> and it's not in a trust. Okay.

I've got some things in a trust, but there that's an estate planning mechanism because my my net worth is in excess of the $25 million exemption. So, I've got some of those issues, but you don't have those issues. I'm not picking on you. I'm just saying there's a reason for a trust and there's a re sometimes the only reason people have a trust is what I'm getting at is because some attorney sold them one, not because they needed one.

So, I want you to get into this and figure that out. Now, having said that, let's go back to your question.

value of the property upon you being deceased, the current value, the first 500 goes to your children as promised and half of any increase goes to your

children as promised. The other half of

any increase would go to your husband.

>> That is what I was thinking. It was worth 340 when we got married four years ago. So >> I don't know that you have to back date it, but if you want to, you could.

>> Okay. And then 50% of the increase after

that would be >> Yeah. Split the increase between your kids and your husband. If that's that's an equitable way to do it.

>> Okay. Yeah. The reason I wanted to ask is he feels like I should just give him 50% total.

>> No. >> Well, he wasn't there for the first 50%.

The first 50% came before he showed up.

What? Why does he think he needs that?

>> Right. Okay. >> Why? Where'd he get that logic?

>> Um, >> he thinks he's that pretty.

No, I think he has he's listening to a few of your segments where you were speaking to somebody in a different situation who

um property taxes on a house that he

with a totally different situation and he kind of I feel like is kind of misapplying it to ours.

>> No, I I I wouldn't have said that in your situation. I I mean there's not a situation like yours that I would have answered this anyway other than this way. And I'm not even sure he needs half of that. But if you want to give him half of the increase from the time you got married on the or or from today on

that that seems fair if he's putting money into the property and he's from he's going to pay at least half of the I mean you all are have a combined account now and your combined account is paying the property taxes and the insurance and the maintenance then yeah he could participate that way. That's that's okay. That's fair.

But I don't know why he would be due anything from before the marriage. that that's not logical to me. But I really do want to go back to the other thing and say uh investigate why you ended up

with a trust. All right. Now, the reason

I'm kind of going off on this, everybody, sidebar, there's a whole segment of people in the insurance world

and in the legal world that sell people

a $1,500 trust as if it's some kind of

freaking magic wand uh for an estate planning tool that they don't need. and they're a pain in the butt to operate.

So when you're every time you want to sell the house, every time you want to do an investment, anything you want to do, it's all in the name of the stupid trust. And so I've got a couple of things in a trust, but they're not used that way. And they people sell it to avoid probate tax, which is local estate

tax, and it's usually not that much. And as a matter of fact, it usually doesn't even cost as much as the trust >> because the trust is a couple grand.

Yeah. Typically, two to five grand depending on who draws it up and what it's for. Now, if there's a a combative adversarial family situation of some kind and you're trying to lock down your intentions for the ownership for a particular thing in in in perpetuity, a

trust is a way to pull that off. Okay?

And and then in that case, but normally a will will suffice for 98% of situations. And you don't just run over and get a trust. And what I've got here is a lady whose husband had passed away.

She had a big insurance check and she went to a lawyer and what'd she end up with? A trust. So, I don't I'm I'm suspicious that she didn't need one.

>> Well, I get a lot of these videos sent to me from our fans and it's always someone who has a vested interest in you getting a trust, which is why they're like, "Oh, if you have a will, you got to get a trust as soon as possible." And it's as if it's some magic trick.

>> Just scroll down to getmytrust.com.

Yeah, >> exactly. And it's usually an estate attorney trying to get some clicks and views for their business. >> Hello. Hello. Here's the advantages of a trust. No one talks about the disadvantages. Here's an interesting thing. Unless you retitle everything, including your mutual fund state, your mutual fund account, your real estate, everything, you have to go retitle it.

Your car, whatever, it's not in the trust until you retitle it.

>> People buy these trusts and then don't retitle the stuff. So, the trust is sitting there with nothing in it.

James is in Baltimore. Hey, James.

What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? Uh, thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um, so my wife and I just recently quit

our high-paying jobs to have her stay

home with the kids and for me to live

out an early semi-retirement, I guess.

Uh, just working part-time. How dumb are we?

>> Uh, I don't know. I mean, how what's

wrong with it? What What'd you do that was dumb? >> It sounds like you think if you was dumb if you're asking us. What's the regret here? I mean, I'm having some second thoughts, but I don't know how much of that is outside influence from my parents and my in-laws who are pretty risk adverse. Oh, >> okay. >> Um, and how much of it were you making

about it?

>> Uh, in total we were >> What were you making?

>> Uh, I was making about 300. Just shy.

>> Doing what?

>> Uh, it cyber security.

>> Okay. And and why were you $300,000

pissed off about it to where you didn't want to do it anymore?

>> Well, I just been working for 20 years in the industry. I'm 40 now and uh

just thought that it would be a good time to refocus my energy on the family rather than work.

>> Okay. And so how much have you got in your nest egg? What are you living off of?

Um, so we sold our house and um, so

we've got about a million just just over a million in cash, 785 in 401k,

550 in a brokerage,

176 in a paid for rental, and maybe 40

grand in miscellaneous. So about 2.5 and change. Mhm.

>> And you guys are renting now?

>> Uh, yeah. We actually moved to Greece.

>> Oh, wow. >> So, we're back home visiting right now, but we moved to Greece. >> What are you doing in Greece?

>> Working remote IT cyber security, but for myself part time.

>> Oh, okay. And how much do you make doing that?

>> Uh, just shy of 180 190 it's looking

like. Well, >> that doesn't sound like you quit.

Well, I'm working 20 hours. I know the >> compared to what you were working, you quit. But I mean, you you know, this is not a guy who's sitting on your douff 40

your entire week. You're working a little bit, make 180. You used to make 300. It's a 120 cut. What was your wife making before she quit?

>> Uh, right around 300.

>> Okay. And what was she doing?

>> Uh, marketing. Digital marketing.

>> And And she took hers all the way to zero.

She has one client. Uh but it is

basically nothing at this point.

>> No money.

>> Uh not much. Um she working for her

>> and uh I don't I don't remember off the

top of my head, but it's um >> Okay. So, let's just round up and say you guys are making over $200,000 a year. You live in Greece >> and you sold everything.

>> Everything. Yeah. Car. different than I retired.

>> That's not your your initial story is not true. I retired. I quit. I do

nothing. I play with babies and change diapers and my wife plays with babies and change diapers. We do nothing. We quit everything. We're off the grid.

That's how you started. And you're that's just not the accurate facts.

>> You've got two and a half$3 million and you make $200,000 a year. you took a pay cut to have an adventure in Greece and and kind of scale back a little bit.

>> Yeah, I guess that's why I'm I'm thinking of it as semi-retirement because I'm working eastern hours and I'm able to work from Greece. I'm effectively not working during the day.

I work evenings, >> work whenever you want and however much you need to to get the job done at 180 >> and and you're keeping your skills sharp in probably one of the hottest fields in the world right now, cyber security. And as long as you keep your skills sharp, you can jump in and out of that world and at random and make money. Agreed.

>> Yeah. I guess like plug in my income and

my more importantly my you know savings and investments into various calculations. >> Okay. So let me let me put it this way.

It sounds to me like you guys were driving. Have you ever driven a car at 150 mph >> in excess? Yes. >> Yeah. Me too. The white lines are coming at you pretty fast. You you remember what happened when you slowed down to 50

>> before >> like you could walk in out and walk.

>> Yeah. You felt like like you uh went from, >> you know, whatever to riding a turtle. I mean, it was just like cuz your brain had adjusted to that speed. And when you dropped down to 50, it felt like you stopped, >> right? >> That's what you did >> 100%. >> You two were $600,000 a year. high

potential, high capacity people. You

were working 60, 80 hours a week. You were straining your brain. You were straining your emotions. You were straining your physical body with the hours. And you went from 180 or went from 600 miles an hour to 200 miles an hour. It feels like you stopped.

>> Right. Exactly. >> But you really didn't.

>> Yeah. >> You're now just driving like most people.

>> No, I know. And it just feels like I worked 20 years to get where I'm at and I was kind of on the threshold of getting to the next level. And >> what's the next level? >> I I uh SVP the title.

>> Yeah. Do you want that? I mean, be careful about climbing that ladder of success. You want to be sure which building it's leaning on.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You looked up and said the destination ain't worth it. The G juice ain't worth the squeeze.

I think I'm feeling pretty good and I can have a really good life. I suspect you'll go through about four or five years of what you're doing now.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

>> I think you're good. >> What's your burn rate right now? How much are you guys spending in in a year?

>> Uh it's like right around 6,000. Um

that's living really comfortably there >> a month. >> So um >> six grand a month >> feel like um 72 a year >> net. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're making well in excess of that working 20 hours a week.

>> James I want the nar see the narrative that you are shiftless do nothing retired early

and have no work ethic that is being shamed and delivered to you somewhere is actually not accurate of who you are. If

you were that, I would tell you, >> okay, >> I would say, you know, get off your butt, you loser. I would tell you, okay, but you're really not. I mean, you're you're you're making substantial money because you've you've honed sharp tools.

You have sharp tools in your belt and you're a craftsman and you're able to apply those because of your years of experience and your connections and make an inordinate amount of money for a small amount of hours. And for right now, that's an adventure and a chance to slow down and get your breath. You guys have been running so stinking hard for so long. You just went from 180 to 55.

That's all you did. But you're not shiftless or lazy. And I don't think you're going to do this exactly this way for the rest of your life. I don't think you're done. I think this is a sbatical.

>> Yeah. This adventure could go, "Yeah, it's getting old. We want to go back to the States 40 years from now." And you can do that. And you'll go pick up a job if you so choose or do your own thing.

>> You may move to Switzerland. I don't know. >> The numbers are irrelevant. You guys are doing great financially. It's not dumb financially, but if you're the parents, you're going, I can't believe they went from 600 to 200 on paper.

>> Jobs. He lost. My son-in-law quit his job. >> So impulsive.

>> But you know, they don't have a vote. If you guys are enjoying your life, you're making your bills. >> You know, it's funny. I've told this story a thousand times, but I'm going to tell it one more time. So, uh, my grandfather worked for Alco Aluminum for 38 years every single week.

And when he retired, he was head cost accountant. He's a wonderful man. One of my favorite people on the planet, but steady, stable, secure, risk averse. >> Yeah. So, my grandmother's a second grade school teacher. So, I printed the first book, Financial Peace. I was selling out of the trunk of my car, sold it to a publisher. I got an email

and it said, "Congratulations, you just sold your millionth copy." Wow. And the

phone rang and it was my grandmother.

And she said, "I was worried about you.

When are you going to get a real job?

>> Oh man, that's funny.

>> So, and she's sweet. I mean, she really was. It's so sweet. She was so worried about me. >> That's passive aggressive grandma behavior. >> No, no. I mean, she just The point was it's just not her world. It's not her paradigm. She didn't understand it. >> And she didn't have the viewpoint to go a million copies. I think we're okay.

>> I actually do have a job, hun. And we're okay. I'm still doing it today, by the way. Yeah. all these 30 years later.

>> Well, she'd probably think remote work is just unemployment with a different title. >> Well, it is

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Sammy is

in Chicago. Hi Sammy. How are you?

>> Hey, good. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, uh me and my wife got on your program about uh 7 months ago. We've shut down all of our credit cards. Um we have about $50,000 worth of debt left.

How much have you paid off in seven months?

>> Um, right under about 6,000,000

>> a month. Okay.

>> Yep. >> What's your household? What's your household income?

>> 150. >> Well, so far you suck at this.

>> I apprec uh Yeah, >> you're making progress, but a thousand a month's kind of weak.

>> Our kids go to private school, which uh is a big uh is a big expense.

Um, but my question was, is it a bad

idea to take out a heliloc to consolidate it? I'm sitting on about $250,000 worth of equity in my house and

kind of just get it all in one place and

um push it up to 1,200 a month and kind

of clear that out in four or five years.

>> Yeah, that's a bad idea

cuz you should turn up the heat. You should turn up the heat on your budget.

turn down the heat on your lifestyle.

You guys have you you've begun the process and you've taken the first level of sacrificing, which is a great progress. I p I picked on you pretty hard, but I mean you really you cut up your credit cards and you paid off $6,000 and that's more than you've done in 10 years. So, you've come a long way.

I mean, you're going in the right direction finally. Congratulations on that and that's good. But what I want you to do instead is pay three $4,000 a month and just get rid of this in a year. But that means you're going to have to cut a whole bunch of stuff out of your life for a year.

And I don't know exactly what it is. And it's not the kids' private schools because that's not the real problem.

>> Ding ding ding. >> I hear that.

>> Yep. Yeah. The vacation. Yes. But yeah.

Okay. >> And you you know I mean you're paying you add all of that up and you take the budget and you and your wife go kids in private schools is a non-negotiable. But all this other crap, we can cut it out for one year and hold our breath and be done with this. Or we can keep this stupid thing around as a helock like it's a pet. No, I want to kill it.

And here's what'll happen. Here's what'll happen. Here's the cool thing.

>> In the process of doing that, Sammy, you and your wife will permanently change how you handle money. You won't have to stay permanently sacrificed at that, but you will never be inattentive again. You

will pay attention for the rest of your life because of this one time because of the strain it does to your brain when you've gone on this much sacrifice.

George, >> yeah, using the house as a piggy bank and moving the unsecured debt to a secure debt, it's not changing any of the behavior that got you guys here. And that's why we're telling you, don't do this. It's just moving the debt around.

And you guys are the solution. This great income you have, we just got to put it to work. I I don't want you to be 10 years from now and only still finding $1,000 because you make too much money to be as broke as you are. I want you to be rich and be I want you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else.

And so that that involves turning up the heat for a short period of time, cleansing the whole thing, cleaning the whole thing off, and then going from there.

Um, make sure you're not getting a tax return. You and your wife are together.

We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant until we get this done. We're not going on vacation until we get this done. We're going to sell so much stuff that's junk around this house that the kids think they're next. We're going to bust it.

And when you and we're going to have a tight budget and we're going to have a detailed budget and the two of us are going to agree on that budget and we're going to make a game out of this for the whole family and we're going to clean up this mess and cut up these credit cards, which you already did. Way to go.

have to modify behaviors to win.

It's only 20% head knowledge. The the head knowledge, the intellect needed to

um the intellectual knowledge base needed to become a millionaire, you learn by the sixth grade.

It's just not that hard. The hard thing is the guy in my mirror. The guy in my

mirror. Or if I can get that guy to behave, he could be skinny and rich, but

he's got issues, you know, and I like

donuts, that's a problem. >> This is getting personal, Dave. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I just My name is Dave and I like donuts.

Yeah, this is my personal AA meeting. But yeah, that's it, man. That's how it works, Sammy. It's We all face this stuff is the point.

And the more I can get you to lean into it and burn with it a little bit, the more permanent the change becomes in your household. And then that is the biggest indicator of whether you're going to become wealthy, not whether we save a few interest rate points on a heliloc.

Thank you for calling in with it.

Jonathan is in Miami. Jonathan, what's up in your world?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me, man.

How are you? >> Sure. Better than I deserve. How are you?

>> I'm well. I uh I've been following you and I have a question. This is mortgage related and let me give you a little background. I'm 44 years old. I have four beautiful kids. I am the uh sole

earner in my home, right? I'm the head of household. My wife is a stay-at-home wife. We have no debt. Um I bring in approximately 200,000 uh year.

>> Way to go. >> And I have extremely poor financial

discipline when it comes to investing or any of that stuff. No one has ever taught me. And I've always been fearful of losing my money. Therefore, I do the dumbest thing possible, which I keep it all in checking. Um, >> how much is in checking?

>> Uh, about 1.4 >> million. >> Um, >> correct. >> Uh, wow. >> Wait, don't don't wait. Don't chew.

Don't chew me out.

>> That's just fabulous. You've got a million dollars in checking.

I love it.

>> Oh, you're going to be so easy to help.

>> Well, I'll I'll tell you what my problem is. >> Okay. I um because I don't have that financial discipline and fear of losing money and I like having it under my pillow per se, you know, you know what I mean? Having it in your checking account, >> you know where it is. You can get it whenever you want. And >> I've been stacking. Now, the only debt I have is this house mortgage. So, I purchased a home in 2020. I have about

$400,000 outstanding on it and I am

fighting myself whether I should pay it off in full or whether I should I don't

know do something else perhaps. Everyone is telling me that I've spoken to invested invested invested. I have no idea what I'm doing. Every person I talk to and you're wise not to invest it until you get comfortable.

>> You should not do it because someone else said do it or because Dave said do it. >> But let's just start with the basics here. Okay. 1.4 for in checking, right?

How long has that been there?

>> I've been saving for nine years now. So, it's been >> Let me just play a game. Let's pretend a million dollars has been there for the last four years. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Just for the fun of it. Now, I want you to go learn about investing and get comfortable with it. And I'm going to help you do that because you've done the right thing. Don't put money in something you don't understand. So, so far you've done the right thing. But by not understanding investing, had you invested in a basic mutual fund that only returned exactly what the market has returned, you missed out on three of the best years ever, your money would

have doubled in the last three years.

>> Wow. That's cost you a million dollars, that lack of knowledge. So, I want you to go get the knowledge, okay? And I want you to go to a smart vest pro at Ramsay Solutions and go sit down with them and begin the process of learning and tell them you have a million dollars to invest because yesterday you paid off your house with 400,000 out of checking.

And by the way, you don't need discipline to pay off your house. It actually adds to discipline cuz it's very hard to get the money out of your house.

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>> Today's question comes from Cameron in Wisconsin. What does Ramsey Solutions recommend regarding robo investment accounts? There are options where you answer questions based on your tolerance to risk and they automate the process and that seems like a simple way for people to invest when they don't know too much about investments or don't have time to manage their account. Is this something you'd recommend?

Well, I like to know what I'm investing in and so I don't want to just delegate it to the robots and not fully understand what's going on behind the scenes. So, the idea is pretty simple.

You know, some people they're not ready to work with an adviser. They don't have a lot of money, so they go the robo investment route. There's a low fee and they feel good about their decisions.

And you're probably, you know, you could do worse than that, but it's still not my favorite option when it comes to investing simply because you you're not fully involved. Yeah, >> George, one of the most requested things we've gotten over the years is for us to actually list the mutual funds that we

personally own. >> Just tell me what to invest in, Dave.

>> What is the mutual fund that you buy or

have even company mutual fund companies have come to us and said, you know, would you endorse our mutual funds? And

um we made the philosophical decision many many years ago to do none of that.

So you guys don't know what mutual funds I have, nor will you because it's not

the point of what I have. The point is what you have.

And the point is you need to learn enough about the mutual fund for you to buy you an investment. You should not

put money in something because Dave Ramsey did. you should put money in something because you looked at it. You understand it and you have taught sat

with a good Smart investor pro with the heart of a teacher and you've learned about the historical. This thing's 62 years old. It's got this kind of track record, this kind of risk. It doesn't feel bad to me. I like it and um you

know, here's the fees on it and I'm okay with that and based on that I'm going to choose that fund and I'm going to invest. That's how you should invest. A robo shouldn't pick it. This is not an automated car wash. It's your investments.

And you know, you shouldn't pick it based on the person sitting next to you in your cubicle. What'd you put in your 401k? That's a bad way to select your 401k options. >> Just looking over Gary's shoulder. >> My god. 50% of the people in 401ks, that's how they picked them. or their company had an automated process that automatically puts them in the dumbest

dumbed down riskaverse possible thing

which is really not a good portfolio of mutual funds and they pick whatever the company dumped them in automatically and didn't even look at it. >> So this is not how you make money.

>> It's not a good investing strategy. >> It's like I'm going to buy a house and never look at it first. I have no idea about the neighborhood. Who knew they had cars up on blocks and shot down the street with uzies? I had no idea. But I just bought a house there. You know why?

Because I heard it was good on TikTok.

You know, I mean that. No, no, you don't do that. You go look at the house. You look at the neighborhood.

You understand. You ask questions about the schools. You say, "What's the hospitals like in the area? What's the traffic pattern around here like?" You get knowledge about the product before you buy it.

And that's what you do with a mutual fund. That's what you do with an investment.

>> Exactly. It always dumbs it down.

>> 20 years later you go, why am I not getting these returns? Dave talked about Yeah. >> Well, it's you're not investing the way we teach. >> The number of times I pull up in a in a 401k with a big company, uh they they've got auto processes or they've got they've got uh buckets of funds. Okay,

here's five funds in the high risk bucket.

Well, guess who does that? No one.

Based on the bucket name. >> Yep. You're not in Vegas. >> But then I pull up the actual funds.

They're not high risk. They're just growth stock mutual funds. They're higher risk than a stupid bond fund, which is in bucket number one. Might >> as well put it in savings >> in the your grandmother's boring bucket.

And then you've got the medium bucket and the Goldilocks bucket just right.

And then you know and so no one does the and basically most people should probably be in the funds that are in that high-risisk bucket but because the way it's named they're just picking a bucket. They don't want to put any effort into learning about it.

>> Yeah. >> Get your butt to school. This is millions of dollars of difference whether you put it in the right fund or not. And so don't use a robo.

>> I do these man on the street, you know, interviews for my YouTube channel. We did one yesterday and I asked people how much they have in retirement and I asked them, "Do you know what you're invested in?" >> Only one person out of 10 or 12 could tell me what they're invested in. And it's because they were a Ramsay fan. Her and her husband in their 30s, $900,000 invested in mutual funds just like we teach. >> Wow. And they got to be on George's YouTube channel, say I'm a millionaire.

>> Pretty cool. >> That's pretty cool. >> And all the others just said, "I don't know. I have a guy who does it. I think >> I've got a guy. >> I said it in my >> People in HR help me. Good lord.

People are picking your funds.

>> 10 years ago, I logged I don't even have the login to the 401k, but 10 years ago, I think I clicked some funds.

>> That's the most of people's knowledge about their investments.

>> And and you know, let me just tell you,

winning at anything is a series of intentional acts. You have to be intentional about your investing. You have to be intentional about your marriage, intentional about raising kids, intentional about taking care of your body, intentional about your spiritual walk. You in, you know, no one wins the Super Bowl and then the reporter runs out on the field and goes, "How did you do that?" And they go, "I don't know.

I just got off the bus and this just happened. What happened?" I don't know. No one says that. They've been studying and playing football since they were freaking six years old.

They don't do anything else except throw a ball. Throw a ball. Get hit by throwing a ball.

That's all they've done their whole freaking life and then they they do they don't know how to do anything else in life because they so focused on that and that's how they get to the Super Bowl. It's an intentional act. It's an intentional act. And so, you know, for God's sakes, don't have a robo pick it for you. I want an app so I don't have to think. There's no there's an app. No,

there's not an app that keeps you from having to think. Not if you want to be somebody and have something. You got to do the stuff or you got to do the stuff. You got to do the stuff. No Robo, no George, no Dave, no Rachel. We're not even going to tell you what invested what Kelly is invested in. We're not even going to tell you her mutual funds cuz I don't even know. So, I can't tell you. So, there you go. And and although

that might get some real serious, but yeah. Anyway, can you imagine Dave Ramsey's producer put that in there?

George's producer put that in there.

That would be that'd be the >> Well, the good news is they're not like super secret funds that only Dave has access to. >> No, they're ridiculously boring.

And you probably have changed it almost never in that period of time you've been investing. >> Yeah, I don't remember changing it.

>> A fund may have moved and switched around. And >> I don't think I even changed it then.

>> You probably don't look at it much now that you've you know what you're invested in. >> Pull it up enough to know what's going on with it cuz I'm intentional. But I'm not like, "Oh, I'm panicking. Trump bombed Iran." I'm like, "No, it went down. Prices went down. Good. I can buy more. >> It's on sale. It's on sale today and all that. Yeah, that's the whole thing. So, be intentional. You know, I used to get

a lot of hate mail for this, so and I haven't done it in a while, so I need to get I haven't had a hate mail in a minute. >> I was going to say we have >> You want some You want some more hate mail? Here we go.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. >> Well, now you've done it, Dave.

>> And you know what? You know where that saying comes from? >> The Bible. >> No, it's the truth.

>> Oh, >> that's where it comes from. >> Thought there was a proverb in there somewhere. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And you know why? It's

not because rich people are evil. It's not because they're smarter. It's not because they're prettier. It's it's not because they stole money. It's not because they did something wrong. They had a series of habits and principles that they operate their life on and they continue to do that. And you know what poor people do? They have a series of habits and patterns that they operate their life on and that will make you poor >> and keep you there.

Now, there is an exception to that to be fair to just to limit the hate mail just a little bit. Sometimes people are poor because they've been oppressed and they've been in a situation politically or racially or something else where they've been oppressed. That's not their fault. But most of the time in America

when someone's poor, it's because of stupid butt choices. I've been broke,

but I've never been poor. Poor is a state of mind.

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Uh, I just opened up my daughter's Instagram account, Rachel Cruz, and I

I seldom get cracked up and that cracked me up. So, her and Winston toasting a glass of wine. Couples who enjoy good food and wine have a much higher success rate than couples who don't. According to a study I made up, >> she's got your DNA. That sounds like something you would say if you were a female. >> 88% of the statistics are made up on the spot. I'm just saying

>> ironclad research from Rachel Cruz right there >> according to a study I made up. That's great. That's so Ramsay. Callie is in Detroit. Hey Cali, what's going on?

>> Hi. Um my husband and I just had our second child and we've been debating for the past few months whether or not my husband should quit his job and be a stay-at-home dad um and part-time do um

self-employed with our woodworking business. But we wanted your advice.

>> He's part-time self-employed at his woodworking business.

>> No, that's what he would do in addition to being a stay at home dad. He works for what would he what does he make today?

>> He makes 162.

>> And what are you making?

>> I make 187 and then like about 20k in

stock back the year.

Okay. Um,

I take it he hates his job and you don't.

>> Yeah, my job is really flexible. It's fully remote and um I'm really passionate about it and my he Yeah, he does not enjoy his job and he has to drive into work and it's about an hour commute. So, it just puts a lot of the parenting strain on me in addition to my

job. And we just think it the lifestyle would be much be better if um >> No, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about he hates his job.

>> Yeah. He also hates his job.

>> So, he's running from something, not to something.

>> Um I think it's both.

>> Yeah.

If he loved his job, you wouldn't even have made the call. you would have hired a governness or nanny to help you when you while you're stay while you're working from home as a remote and

>> I think it's like with our first I stayed at home with our first so it's part of our values as well that like we don't want to um >> we don't want to pay someone else to parent our kids so >> well you're there you're going to be in the house cuz you're remote

>> yeah it's not you're not sending them off a boarding school, you know, somebody put them down for a nap while you finish up a Zoom call.

>> Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, and that's one of the options we're considering is hiring a nanny.

>> I don't think your husband signed up for this because he has sat around for the last 10 years wishing he was a full-time dad sitting at home changing diapers. I think your husband signed up for this because he's trying to get away from his job and because it's what you want him to do.

>> Interesting. Here, I'll just hand him the phone. >> Ah, the plot thickens.

>> Hey, you hate your job and you're wanting to come home is my supposition to get away from your job.

>> I I I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate my job for what I do. It's actually the best job I've ever had, which makes it difficult to leave.

>> Okay. >> It is stressful, but but still the best

job I've had in the field I work in.

>> Okay.

Well, I do relate to my wife's comment that, you know, we're struggling with the idea of would we be paying someone else to raise our children? >> Yeah. I don't I don't suggest that. I get the value. Okay. My wife was a full-time mom, raised our kids. Okay. Um

both of my daughters do have careers. Uh but both of them have, you know, and both of them have some help, but they're not they didn't send their kids off to boarding school and they're not in a daycare and they're not any of that. it's just a you know a part-time nanny situation to supplement the time that they need to be at home cuz they're very flexible like your wife's situation. So anyway, I I can relate to what you're you guys are after here. Um,

and and yeah, I

I'm I'm always the one I want to push back and always make you think make sure you're thinking about what your real motive is under the motive because you're walking away from a couple hundred,000. So, you need to have a really, really, really, really good reason for doing this. And um I don't run into a lot of people that um

that the guy wants to come home. And if you want to, I'm not mad about it. It's okay. I'm not saying you're doing something morally wrong. But um but

you're you know, you're dro you're leaving a couple hundred,000 or 8 what you make $160,000 on the >> going from 370 to 207 is what would happen. >> And um uh so you need to have really

thought that out. Uh because the part-time woodworking thing is kind of a joke as far as um that that's a throwaway. That's like acting like you're doing something else. And by the way, who's going to watch the kid while you're doing that? So um you know,

>> it still leaves a gap potentially. But anyway, the um so

I this feels like it feels in the air like something else is driving this other than you just woke up, sir, and said, "I really don't want to work

anymore. I want to be with the babies all day long." I don't think that's what

happened. I you know, I don't I don't hear that here. But y'all do whatever you want to do. I'm not mad at you about it.

And it's not a I think it's a values like you said earlier, you guys both said it and and I agree with what you said, Sarah. It's a values-based decision. Oh, not Sarah, I'm sorry, Cali. And so, um, but it's a values-based decision.

really go deep on the a spiritual and

emotional relational discussion on what's really driving this. And um it it

it I don't know. I just I got to check on it, but I'm I could be wrong.

>> I like the tri the idea of a trial run with a nanny. see how that goes. And if it just pains you to not be there with the kids, then you know.

>> Yeah. Well, and again, a nanny is not a full-time gig here. It's supplementing mom who's already in the house. And um

you know, if she was at work, that's a, you know, in a physical location away from the house, that'd be a completely different discussion then. But um cuz a

nanny is then quote someone raising your kids unquote. Uh although that's overstated because that's not really what happens. your children when they're in school all day long, someone else is not raising your children. You're still raising your children. >> Yeah. If this is the case, >> when they get old enough that they go to school, >> homeschool and and continue down that path. >> Exactly. That whole thing. So, um, but

you know, again, my children went to school and someone else did not raise my children. It was not a boarding school. It was a public high school, public elementary school, and someone else did not raise my children. So that's not that's not an accurate statement when you have other people involved in some of the hours of their life. Uh they also went to Sunday school on Sunday morning but someone else didn't raise my children spiritually. I did spiritually they you know their um spiritual walk is largely my fault.

Hello. You know one way or the other.

>> Yeah. The parents will still have the most influence. >> That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. It's a good discussion and uh I want you to go deep with the discussion and double triple check both of your motives and uh don't overstate

things in hyperbole to justify it. Um

and someone else raising my children when a nanny's helping parttime is overstating it and I'm going to have a part-time woodworking thing but I'm going to be at home full-time with a kid. No, you're not. Something you're,

you know, I don't know how part-time, but I mean, 1 hour a day, it's not, you know, um, and you know, with a monitor.

I mean, I don't, >> it's probably not going to add meaningful income on top of the 207.

>> Exactly. So, yeah. And then, you know, what is it? Um, and then what's five

years look like and what's two years look like and what's one year look like and u and is there an exit possibility

from this situation? If we get into it and we don't like it, what are we going to do? How could we return to something that looked more like what we had before? I don't know. All of those things are things I want to talk through clearly. Um, but again, I I'm really not

mad at you about it saying it's a horrible idea. I just it there's just something bothering me and and it's not

just that I'm a child of the 60s.

Hey,

hey, hey.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 16:3.

Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans. George Bernard Shaw said, "If all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion." >> That's good. That's funny. Hey guys, in

2023, the stock market was up 26%.

In 2024, it was up 25%.

In 2025, it was up 18%.

In those three years, if you had put money in, you would have made an 87% rate of return in three years. You would have doubled your money almost.

Now, I don't think the stock market's going to do that all the time, but some of you have been sitting money with sitting with money in a checking account while that happened because you don't have a Smart Investor Pro in your corner to teach you about investing. You need

to learn about investing. When it is time for you to invest, you've gotten out of debt, you have your emergency fund, you need to have someone that can help you. And we've been connecting listeners to Smart Investor Pros for over 20 years. They'll help you create a plan and they'll teach you and then they'll help you make informed investing decisions. You will decide, not them,

not me. Go to ramseyolutions.com/smartvestor and find a pro near you and quit missing

out on all of this. See, the news doesn't talk about the stock market when it's good. The only time they talk about it is when it's bad.

>> So, you are missing out because no one was telling you, including us. We didn't tell you. We should have told you. It's been great and you missed out. It's up 13% this year.

>> Go check your 401k if you don't believe us. If you're invested in the right things. >> Yeah, for real. Sarah's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> I'm well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my fiance and I are getting married.

Um, we've already set a date and we are getting civily married. Um, I am the

youngest of my parents' children. I'm the only girl and there are no female cousins and my fiance is the youngest

boy. We have decided not to do a traditional wedding and we're not even going to get married by a pastor. We're actually getting married by a judge. Um,

and our families, I think, um, my my my

family already knew how I felt about spending that type of money on a day,

but we're getting some pressure as if we

are being um, I don't know, dismissive

because we don't want to spend that money. Our plan and that we've already started on. Okay.

>> The money that we're going to spend is your money, not theirs.

Am I right? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, it's not like his mom and dad have offered to give you $50,000 for a wedding.

>> No. >> No. My parents are giving us some money.

They also are going to >> they're going to give us about 40,000 and they want to spend um they want to throw me a you know because they're very traditional a wedding celebration party.

And I said, "Okay." But the half I said I really don't want I would rather that money go towards the house. But they did say well we will still see money towards the house. >> Okay. So you're having a well a wedding celebration party to >> uh to to to for so family and friends can enjoy this celebration with you and your parents are paying for it. It's costing you nothing.

>> Yes. >> And you're getting married by a judge and that's the plan. And his mom doesn't like it.

Well, I won't say doesn't like it. I

would say the family and it's really not. His mom is is being respectful.

His, you know, I think the dad and the mom just expected us to be more traditional to be married by a pastor to

actually have a wedding. I'm not doing I did not do a bachelorette party, a bridal party, or an engagement party because >> But his dad doesn't care about any of that.

>> You added that. >> I doubt it. His dad doesn't care if you had a bachelorette party. I promise his dad doesn't care.

>> Okay. But he is kind of worried about you not having a traditional wedding with a pastor because he's a person of faith.

>> Yes. And I guess for me, I just I don't We are buying a house. We are We >> No, but having a pastor marry you doesn't cost any more than having a judge marry you.

>> True. >> Okay. So what is he what is his what's his hang-up?

>> I'm trying to figure out who's pressuring you other than in your head.

>> Well, their hangup is that we are not in really they are not our my parents are handling a lot of the party and there's

really no involvement from that side of the family and because I'm definitely like I'm I don't want but >> that's not a that's not a money thing.

That's a relational and communications thing.

The question I have definitely is how do I communicate? Why? Like is there a better way to communicate? We just think that's a waste of money. I don't want to go into it, you know, >> going back. >> No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I I would just say here's what we want to do and why.

And is is there an issue you have with that?

And let them tell you instead of you trying to figure out what it is because you don't know. You ain't even been able to tell me.

>> I think well I I know that the issue is basically that our that definitely we are doing this on our own and there has been no type of >> Well, usually the groom's family doesn't write checks except for the rehearsal dinner traditionally.

>> Yes. Yes. But we're not doing a rehearsal >> dinner.

And I I honestly doubt that the whole family's upset that they're not having to pay for a rehearsal dinner >> or plan it. It's not like that's super fun for most people.

>> So So what kind of involvement are they wanting >> enough weddings?

I I I'm guessing

that more. >> I think here's the thing. I don't Here's the thing. I I want you to do what you want to do. you're the bride and unless so and unless someone is financing their

personal wishes, they don't get a vote.

And like in the case of your parents, your parents desire a party and they're going to pay for the party and still give you the gift they promised above that. And so your parents are have handled that appropriately. Therefore, they get a vote and you let them have that vote and agreed to that party. You see what I'm saying?

That's a good that was a process that was perfectly handled. I would consider the same thing on the actual service itself and say that, you know, it means a lot to his dad because he's a person of faith to have this done by a pastor in a church and it's going to cost exactly the same money and it doesn't offend me. If it does offend you, then you don't have to do it. But if if it doesn't offend you and you're you're neutral on that, then why not do it there instead of the judge?

Nothing you've described to me is anybody getting hurt economically. No one's wasting any money here except your parents according to your process. And your parents are doing it gleefully as I would. By the way, I like a big party at a wedding.

I mean, the first time we saw Jesus do miracles was at a party at a wedding.

So, I'm in for parties at a wedding.

>> The wine was flowing. >> That's it. And so, um, but I mean, I'm I'm like the all the old people in this story. I'm I'm traditional in your story.

So, but your mom and dad have handled this perfectly.

That's what I would get. I like that plan. And then everybody's a little bit happy. >> Um, if I couldn't find the problem.

>> Yeah, I think it is a lot. Like you mentioned, it's a it's more feelings because we just don't have the information. >> Well, I I read into what I think people are thinking way too often when I don't ask them >> without communicating >> what they're really thinking. >> Yeah, I do it with a caller.

>> Well, there's just so much Yeah, that's true. There's so much emotion around a wedding and there's different families and different values and backgrounds and I think most people just don't have the conversation. Yeah. Early on to say, "Hey, here's our plan. We all on the same page." >> Yeah. I wrote all the checks and I'm still happy that none of my kids aloped.

>> You don't I had a blast.

>> It wasn't money wasted. >> And I can't wait to be at my grandkids weddings and I may write those checks.

So there, shut up. >> Clip that one, too. I want to send that to the grandkids. Let them know. >> Yeah. Well, they already know. They try to keep the old man alive long enough.

That's it. That puts the Sour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 272. You Don’t Have to Stay Broke | August 25, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:11:12 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us today.8825-5225

is the phone number.8825-5225.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. You ready to go, partner?

>> I'm ready, partner. What a What a good day. >> It's a good day. Lacy joins us first in Jacksonville, Florida. Lacy, how can we help?

>> Uh, yes. I'm just trying to get advice.

I'm uh kind of stuck financially. I

purchased uh my home about 400,000

beginning of 2024. uh with the interest

rates. Um it's not really affordable. I

thought that I could refinance. Um but it's really um I I make the good salary,

but I'm kind of living paycheck to paycheck, unable to save the debt that I have. Um, it's kind of just there hanging around, not going anywhere, and I just want to get out of this house or I don't really have a solution to uh to

remedy this poor financial decision that

I made for myself.

>> Okay, Lacy, how much is your house payment every month?

>> Uh, 3,100. >> 3,100. And how much are you bringing home?

Um, after taxes I bring home about uh

let's see uh 56.

>> Oh my gosh. >> 100. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't afford this house.

I mean, how Yeah. I mean, that leaves you Yeah. 2,000ish dollars per month. How much are your debt payments on everything else?

>> Um, usually over a,000. my car note is

about 400 because I put down about 15,000 on my car. So, I owe about 19.

And then slowly, you know, throughout the last couple years, I used credit cards here and there, but when I initially purchased the home, I didn't have any credit card debt. Um, I did do

an FHA mortgage, so I do have PMI.

Um, but yeah, it it was definitely a poor financial uh I just I wanted a

newer home and >> yeah, >> wanted a private office space and uh I don't know, you know, I've looked at >> foreclosure, short sale. Um, but the

home's kind of, you know, a lot hasn't been taken off of um, you know,

besides my down payment because of how much is going towards interest. So, you know, it's still about 365 >> for sure. Well, and I'm just wondering even with your car payment and other debt, I mean, you probably only have $1,000 to do everything, Lacy, of of to eat and to pay your bills, I mean, electricity and all of it. Are you going into credit card debt every month to keep just your basics afloat?

>> Yeah, basically. Uh, and then I the cycle is vicious because, you know, I pay the payments and then, you know, I'm broke. uh you know within a week or less

after I'm paid.

>> I just want to ask the obvious. Are you single?

>> Um I am single. I am.

>> Why did you pause?

>> Is there is there something else we don't know? Yeah, there's something there. What what what were you pausing about? >> Well, I do have uh my boyfriend. Um, I

let him move in with me, but I don't know how long term that's going to be, and I don't really rely upon that. And his income is substantially less. So, I don't really count.

>> Is he Is he paying anything?

>> He does pay, you know, about 25 to 30%,

but it's not enough to give me reprieve or to really make a dent in

the, you know, what's on my plate.

everything's in my name and uh >> No, no, I get that and I'm not we would never suggest otherwise. I I just I don't know why I decided to ask that. I had an inkling. But the point is is he needs to be uh >> if he's the roommate, I don't care what your relationship status is, he needs to be doing more than that, Rachel.

Am I right? >> Yeah. I mean, >> 25% >> in the short term, but I mean, you got to get out of this house. >> Yeah.

I would put this house up for sale. >> Yeah. That's the That's the play. Take whatever lumps you're going to take on this, but you got to remove this.

>> Yeah. And I would just go rent, Lacy. I would not be a homeowner right now because your finances are all over the place. You have so you have a $19,000 car loan.

>> Uh what's the what credit card debt do you have?

>> Um about 20,000 total. I added it up.

>> Okay. What other debt is there?

>> Well, there's student loan debt. Um how much is that forbearance? It's about a h 100,000 total.

>> What' you get your degree in? >> Because of um nursing.

validated. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Why aren't you doing overtime?

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I um I work for uh private sector

right now. Um but I do have um I'm about

to start a second job to do um bedside

nursing. >> Great. But by the way, that's what you got to do. >> I just want to throw that in real quick, Rachel. I know I interrupted, but with your nursing skill, you have got to be working like a crazy woman right now to

get the rest of this debt. Forget the house part, but we've got to clean up the house and then the rest of the stuff. But you've got to There's no life for you. You are using a very valuable skill to be making as much money as possible.

And by the way, we've had I remember a debtree scream, Rachel. It was probably over a year ago. Uh, and it was a travel nurse and she paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and she just worked like an absolute maniac. So, I just want to >> give you that, Lacy.

Sorry, Rachel. I know you were working somewhere. >> How long?

>> For how long? >> She did it for about two and a half years. It was a short amount of time.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I would be looking into some creative solutions just to get your head above water, Lacy. If you do you know how much the house is worth right now? You >> So, that's the thing. It's It's worth about 385 and I owe about 370 on it

because like m much hasn't gone away. So

I think that I'm going to come out a negative. Yeah, it may be a little bit negative. Um but I would rather do that and free up $3,100 a month. Now you'll have to pay rent somewhere.

>> Uh but even if you can find a place for $1,800, right? I mean like it just this starts to free up. >> Well, if you're shacking up with a boyfriend, he needs to pay half. Am I wrong about that? No, no, you're not.

>> Okay. I just wanted to make sure >> it may not be longterm because it's not really that beneficial to me.

>> Yeah. >> What? He's not.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, kick him to the curb. Why do we You're You have no life right now.

You're working so hard. We don't have time for a boyfriend. >> Yeah. >> I'd kick him to the curb. He's a Listen, he's a financial deadbeat anyway.

>> I know. I mean, come on. Let's be honest. Any dude worth his weight and salt would have said, "I'm gonna pay half, babe." Right. But no, he's he's he's freeloading off of you to the tune of 25%. >> Uhuh. Yeah. >> Major, did you say major turnoff?

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. I love that. That's great.

>> Yeah. So, Lacy, that Yeah. This house is killing you. Okay. And I know you know that, but that's exactly what I would do. I would sell it. Um hopefully as soon as possible. I mean, obviously, you don't want to be you don't want to be too urgent because you don't want to like sell low. Um but get a great real estate agent. If you go to ramseysolutions.com and check out our ELPs, we have real estate agents all across the country. >> And get someone who is good at this.

This is what they do. They sell houses.

They sell a lot of houses. And you may take a small loss, but that is going to be so worth it because it's going to free up your income. And then you have to start attacking this debt. But in the meantime, Lacy, make sure food, shelter, utilities, transportation is current.

Don't get behind on the house. Make sure those things are current. And then you got to step up with the income and you got to pay the debt off. You yeah, you have a good two, three, four year journey ahead of you.

But uh but but I think it's bright and I think your future's bright and you can do this. It's just some hard big decisions you have to make with the house and Ken's two big sum it up. Two big decisions. We're kicking the boyfriend out and then we're listing the house.

Very simple.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right, if if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills next week?

>> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

>> All right, let's go to Angela who's joining us in Illinois. Angela, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my phone call. Um, so I'll give a a short scenario of kind of what happened. So, um, I'm a 36-year-old female. Um, and my

fiance passed on a motorcycle accident about a month and a half ago or so.

>> Oh my gosh, Angela. >> Angela, I'm so sorry.

>> My goodness, that's so tragic. How long

How long have you guys were you guys together for? >> About eight years. And so, yeah. And so

being 3 weeks from us getting married, uh we set oursel up for like a very strong financial future. Um it's just

like if anything were to ever happen.

>> So I received his life insurance policy.

Um and so I'm kind of in this like I

didn't expect him to lose him this early and our um journey together. And so I'm

trying to find out at at 36 years old

and um his life insurance policy was 301,000 um and some change of that. Um and after

all of our debt is paid, I'm sitting on a chunk of about $120,000.

>> Okay. >> Um I make about $71,000 before taxes.

Um, I'm going to be getting a social security check for my son um that we had

together for um essentially, you know,

his social security. And then >> what's that amount? >> We um I have not had a conclusive um

amount yet, but I they had estimated somewhere between $900 to $2,100. Okay.

>> Um estimated per month.

>> And because we weren't married, I don't get like a you know, a part of that. But I like I said to be 36 years old I find

myself in a position that I never >> really anticipated. Right. Um

>> like >> he's five. >> Okay.

>> So um my heart is kind of telling me I'd

like to build a generational wealth for us and then for him. And so I've been

looking at like compound interest of that type of thing. And then everybody else is kind of like persuaded this idea of estates and what I should be doing with it. And I I feel like at this point

um my taxes are relatively cheap, like

right around $2,100 a year. Um electric,

gas, I have all city amenities, but my house value I would say right around like $170 $180,000 with two acres, five

bedrooms. Um we just bought during COVID at a really great time. Um, and so I

just feel like my net worth has been um,

you know, post all of this, I just feel like I'm just really in a position that I I don't want to be um,

I don't want to be weak in this $120,000. I feel like it's given an opportunity. >> Can I ask you something, Angela? Is because it goes from 301 to 120. Is that paying off the house? That's paying off our house. Okay. I have both vehicles that we have, a camper. Um, >> have you already done all that?

>> Um, I'm in the midst of I just paid off the camper because it had a higher interest rate than what I we were planning on moving it over to a lower interest rate um with my tech with my work um because I had a better credit union. >> And then um the motorcycle that he

passed on um he only held that debt. So

that essentially is not part of >> okay >> this life insurance policy concept. So >> well the only reason I asked I didn't mean to rabbit trail you but we want to make sure that you actually do this. This is great because that's going to get you there to where you got 120 left.

So >> the question is what do you do with the 120? So with all the debt gone um you're

going to need an emergency fund. Do you have did you already have an emergency fund for you because you guys were not married? What what do you have any of that at all? >> Yeah.

And I think that's where I'm kind of stuck in that is that what does an emergency I mean for me like you know three months worth of bills was where I was sitting with an emergency fund um that we sit with cash inside of our safe. So that was just the idea if anybody took anything out of our bank accounts. >> Okay. >> That was there.

>> Well um >> that's not what we would tell you to do and you know what three months expenses are. You already done that. >> How much is it? How much would three months be?

So, >> and you're saying you already have that set aside in cash, correct?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I would like you worried about the digital part, right, of being something being stolen. So, just having it here.

>> Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah, you can just put it in a high yield savings account. It's FD FDIC insured. You are safe. Yeah,

you'll be good with that. And I would bump it up to 20 because you have a son

and again just as some cushion. So I would put 20 20 grand which you already have 13 so it's an extra seven coming out. Um so that leaves you with a yeah 113,000 and >> you know Angela you could with this amount of money I would

>> I that I would spread it over three different ways. And if you feel like you don't need to spend any of it and you just want to put it aside you can totally do that. You could put the whole chunk of it just in, you know, an index fund and it would grow to probably $2

million by the time you're 65 without even touching it. So that in of itself would be a life-changing account, right?

That you could just put away and and not even look at you, you know, barely even have to manage it. >> And so that's an option. You could also use some of this money and open up a 529

for your son and put a chunk of money in there and let that grow for him so when it's time for college um that he has $100,000 you know 120 sitting in there for college um you know there there's some things you can definitely do but I will say 113 it'll go fast like when you

start to actually kind of divvy it out but I I the the amount of intentionality

with it I feel from you because it's

from him, right? I'm like, you want this legacy of him, of your fiance, the love of your life, >> the father of your son to to live on well. And so, um, so there's different ways you could do that from giving, saving. >> Do you have >> spending some of it? >> Yeah, I agree with Rachel. What do you have as far as 401k or any type of retirement accounts?

>> Yeah, so when we purchased the house, I did pull a little bit of money from my 401k. Um, but right now, I mean, my 401k

is is is growing. Um, I apologize. I did not look before the the circumstance.

But I mean, I I do plan on continuing to work. Um, >> just because I just there's just, you know, intentionality of just having health insurance for my son and then also I would like my idea of this compound interest is where my brain sort of >> Sure. Yeah. >> caught on to. >> I think Rachel's advice is great. Here's what I would add. I would tell you to if you don't have a a true smartvest or pro in your life, go to ramseyolutions.com and go interview three or four or five.

>> Find out which one you click with the most. This is just all about some basic likability chemistry thing and then uh get their opinions. Have them because we've told you and we'll recap what we would do with the 113. I'm with Rachel.

That's the number I've got because the seven's going to get your emergency fund up to where I think it's the right number. So let's say you got 113 to work with. I would get a Smart Vster. I get multiple to tell them what they would do with it and and explain it to where you get it. Um, but I'm with Rachel. I would

um what I would do is I would ask a Smart Investor Pro, okay, I got a 5-year-old. How much money of the 113 would catch them up? Assuming I was, let's say a h 100,000 was our goal. You can talk through this.

Okay. Well, he's five. I'm five years behind. So, how much of the 113 do I put in that would catch him up?

They can give you that number. And then what do I need to put in, you know, monthly or do I take a lump sum here and go, "All right, because you got the $900.

>> I talk to them about that, too, and go, "Do I put in a lump sum out of the 113, Rachel, into the 529 >> and then take the >> the entire or a good portion of the social security check and put that in because that's for him." Yeah. And then you take the rest of the >> let's say it let's say it's 100 just for conversation. I'm with Rachel. I would invest that and let that just build because we don't have to run the investment calculator, but I'm telling you uh that's going to double every seven years.

That's what the historical return is.

you really going above and beyond what you're already doing with the 15% as we teach here in Baby Step 4. But I think you've got a clear-cut strategy. But I think you should sit down with a professional and get them to partner with you and let's use this wisely >> and not to you know Ken just said this and I don't think we've said it in the call Angela but consistently now I want you investing 15% of your income into retirement above and beyond this 113.

Okay. So, that's going to be Roth IAS, your 401k. And if you're doing that through your income and you have a jump start, maybe maybe take some of this and and the Smart Investor Pro may say, "Hey, yeah, take, you know, 78,000 of it and let's fund your 40 or your Roth for the year." And, you know, you can find some smart ways to move it around. But I do think your your initial reaction of investing in this compound interest, I think, is really wise.

Um, and that's where that's probably where I would lean for sure, whether investing for your son's future part of it with college, you for retirement in the future, and also for that emergency fund.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, folks. The 2026

Ramsay goal planner is here. I feel like Roger Goodell announcing the NFL draft.

Very exciting. The 2026.

Let me get this. Oh my gosh. It's a This is a This is not a one-armed planner.

>> It's a heavy heavy >> note. To those of you who love planners, this is going to require you doing some basic weightlifting.

>> Um, this is unbelievable. And I guess we're offering it at uh $35.97.

It's a curious price. A little bit less than $36. Yep.

>> And I'm telling you folks, you could hurt a person. >> And I think this is the lowest price. So you moms out there could use this as a paddle. >> Does anybody do that anymore? >> I don't think so. I was thinking more self-defense. >> I I know. I'm old school. I would >> someone comes. >> Well, if you're in a dark alley, ladies, this bring out this spiral thing here.

That'll cut a man. >> Well, and cut him because it's launching now. It is the lowest price and it will continue to go up because these are very they're very valuable planners, >> but we do a quick we do a quick launch early on with lowest price.

>> You know what I like? Little ruler right here on the inside takes me back to the Trapper Keeper days. >> I wish I had some Velcro. >> Wish I had a little Velcro. That's what I was going to say. >> They should You know what? 2027, >> we need a Trapper Keeper option.

>> Oh, yes. >> I'll talk to the team. But now, Rachel's right. If you don't get this before Labor Day, the price is going up. In fact, it's going up so much that it's not even on my notes here. So, that tells me it's going up. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, you better get it right now for $35.97.

>> So, it has contents in it from John.

tell John Deloney, myself and Jade Warshaw, >> relationships, spirituality, your money, and then there's also obviously all the calendars from like the month outlook to >> lot of tabs >> to the lot of tabs >> to the uh weekly all of it. But the planner world, Ken, it's a world out there. There are women that live in this world. >> I know. Can you detect my I can't stand.

My wife still uses one of these. She loves this. I know when we do dates, I'm on my phone. She's over here with this thing >> flipping flipping her calendar open.

>> I don't get it.

>> But I do get it. My wife loves this.

Stacy's going to be thrilled. >> It's beautiful. >> I might take this one. James, can I take this one home and surprise Stacy?

>> You may not. Okay. James says, "No, that's show prop. >> You can buy your own." >> I love it. Was so polite.

>> And at the lowest price ever.

>> $35.97 only at ramseysolutions.com/store.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Maybe Kelly, the associate producer, will get a free one. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know if it's a perk. You have to talk to James. All right, Lori's up next in Canada. Lori, how can we help?

>> Oh, hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Rachel, it's nice to talk to you again. I I was on the phone with you and Jade about a month or so ago. >> Oh. >> And so, I'm hoping to expand a little bit on my question a little bit. I I did follow your advice. Um I my question was whether to get a mobile home or rent.

>> Yes, I remember this. Yes.

>> And what did Rachel tell you? >> To get around to it, but I I am following your advice. Um and now my question uh comes up. There's a new question that comes up actually. So I'm 27 years old. I have about um $28,000 in

student debt. I earn about $4,000 a

month after tax. Um, and so I'll be

relocating 3 hours away for for a job.

Um, currently living with family, rentree, and now, uh, with that move, I'll be renting. Um, I was going to be

done baby step two in March of 2026, but

now with this move, I'm it's going to be delaying delaying my uh, debt-free date

by 12 to 14 months just based on the

numbers I've crunched.

>> You making less money? Well, no. Well, I'll be renting now. And right now, I'm not renting at all. >> Uh, that's right. You're living free. That's right. >> Okay. So, we have a $1,200 increase.

What about the income increase?

>> Um, I'm not increasing income yet. Um, there's a few uh variables that are still unknown, but I should know soon if I will be getting an increase in income in a few months. >> Okay. >> Um, but like I I have a part-time job

right now. I'll be losing that. Um it's

just creating a lot of anxiety and fear around um paying off debt. I feel really demoralized about >> Okay, so hold on. What's demoralizing you? Is it the increase in cost because you're living for free now? And is it also that you're losing this part-time job? Is that are those the sources of feeling demoralized because I'm going backwards?

Um, it's more so just a debtfree date that's being pushed back by so much like it's >> Yeah, but those are the two reasons or more. >> Are those the two primary reason here?

I'm I'm setting you up.

>> Those are the two primary reasons why you're moving the date, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's let's look at how we would maybe not move the date. Okay.

First of all, we don't know yet what your increase in income is going to be. True or false?

>> Uh, true. >> True. And there are part-time jobs where

you're moving. True or false?

>> True. It has been very difficult though.

I've been applying actually prematurely just in hopes to get some responses, but I have yet to receive anything. Very difficult. >> Okay, I get it. But let's have a mindset here that I it is possible. Isn't it true that it's possible that you can find a part-time job at some point upon moving? Is that possible?

>> It is. >> Okay, great. Now, tell Rachel and I how much money of that income that you're bringing home that you told us, how much of that is from the part-time job?

>> It's not actually. So, with the part-time job, I get an additional like $500 to $1,000 a month. Um, I don't work

a lot of hours where I'm currently working in my part-time job. So, Okay.

>> And also, we're in the low season right now. >> Okay. So, what I would tell you, Lori, is is to find something that you make $1,200 a month.

>> Mhm. and and and that's part of this baby step two process. It's cutting all expenses and bringing in extra income and it's scorched earth. So instead of it extending an additional 12 months because you were going to be out by March which is pretty soon. I mean that's you know 6 months.

>> Um is that right? Revenge

>> eight months. I had to count I had to count the months real quick. Make sure that was correct. >> Um so in Yeah. So 8 months and now

you're saying it's going to be an additional year because of you don't

have a part-time job right now and the rent. So what I would make it a goal was to say it may not be March, but it's going to be June. Like it's not going to be another year. >> I agree. >> And work like crazy. That's all you have to do for eight months. Eight months.

All you got to do is just is spend

nothing, you know? Yeah.

>> Take your expenses all the way down. And then that extra of that extra income is what is key for a lot of people that get out of debt. That's what we find. And again, it's not forever. >> Yeah. >> But it's literally just through the Christmas season into the spring and then you have your end date and you're good. >> And Lori, what about a roommate?

>> I've considered those options. I I've asked around friends and things like that. I There hasn't been anybody interested. >> Lori, listen. Let me tell you what's going on. And I'm saying, can I be big brother here? you you have the spirit

>> of I can't do it.

>> It's so hard. And I love that you called back and I love that you're being honest with us, but you're every time we present a solution to you and the way you set the entire call up is I'm overwhelmed, which means and I've talked to a lot of overwhelmed people in my time at Ramsey Solutions and the reason they're overwhelmed is because they don't believe.

They don't believe. Okay. So, what we've

been attempting to do is to go, "Wait a second. Is it possible?" And that was my little game that I did with you a little bit earlier because I the the thing that's going on with you is you've actually done so well. You're committed and now you've had a change of life and it has thrown you off. But this is all mindset. This is not some like kumbaya

technique I'm trying to tell. I'm telling you, you've got to go, wait a second. This is how I feel. That's real.

And and I don't in any way want to minimize your emotions. However, you feel that way because you've not allowed your mind to actually look for solutions. You just saw a roadblock. I got to move now. Now I'm not getting rent free. I'm actually paying rent.

Well, welcome to the real world. You've been living in La La Land with no rent.

Good for you. But this is real life.

This is not the end of the world. Okay.

So, Rachel and I've walked you through these scenarios. And I'm telling you, I want to encourage you. You can find a roommate. You can find a part-time job.

And if you do those things, as Rachel said, you won't have to push back the timeline. And dare I say, if you get a roommate, I think you can beat the debtfree payoff.

>> Go even earlier.

>> Let's cut it from 1,200 to 600.

>> Yep. Yeah. There. And and Lori, I want you to know that this is possible. You know, you're not trying to find $10,000 a month. >> It's it's a,000 bucks. You can do it.

>> You can do it. Yes. So go, you know,

take this situation and and say, "I'm going to happen to it, not let it happen to me." We believe in you. You got this.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. If you uh not sure how you're doing on staying in step with the baby

steps, we have a quick quiz that'll allow you to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Go to the show notes. If you're listening via podcast and YouTube, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Quick little quiz and that'll let you know where you stand. And it's very important that you understand in any kind of processoriented uh goal, okay, I'm on this path that

there are going to be just times in life where you just feel like you're off step and seeing where you stand, knowing where you stand is really huge to mentally getting back on track so you can keep going. So that's a fabulous little quiz. We'd love for you to join us there. Leo is up in San Diego, California. Leo, how can we help today?

>> Uh how you doing? and uh thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

>> Sure. >> Um so uh me and my wife were newly weds, been married and got married um February 14th. >> Congrats. >> Oh, a little Valentine's Day wedding.

>> Nice. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was it was good. Um we've been together a total of about three and a half years. Um we've been we got our own apartment about a little about two years ago. and our mother-in-law, well,

she wasn't my mother-in-law at first, but she decid she offered to help us

with rent. Um, so we took her up on an

offer and everything was going good until we got married. Uh, couple of months after we got married, she started harassing my wife like through text

message, like just all kinds of just mean and dirty, just vile things, just like just mean things. And then um >> that's fun. >> So she uh we basically decided to just

you know um kind of just decline her help because she was um kind of putting

stipulations on it. Like one she called and said if you want our rent if you want my half of the rent this month you have to prove to me xyz which was no problem because we proved it to her. But it would that you know it was just like out of nowhere you know. >> Well she out of nowhere started harassing her own daughter. This woman's cray cray. >> Yes. Did you know she was crazy before you married?

>> Yes. >> Well, what do you Okay, quick life lesson. >> I tried. >> Don't ever ever ever

fight your instinct on relationship

stuff with family members cuz if crazy is in the family, there's more crazy is going to show up. So, let's let's move forward on this. And have you put up a boundary? Put up a boundary. She can't Yeah. >> Yes. We our boundary was blocking her.

Um, so that was that's that's that. But ever since ever and before before we decided to um stop taking her help, we were doing great with staying up on staying our bills were paid on time.

Everything was good. >> Um, but we didn't save we didn't save anything. My wife was saying, "Hey, we need to save." But >> me being bad with money, we made I made very bad decisions and we ended up in a situation where we didn't have any we weren't ready for this situation that we were in. you weren't ready for it period because I I just want to rewind real quick.

You got you've said twice now that you guys were great >> at paying everything while she was giving you money, which means you weren't ever great cuz you didn't have enough money to pay your bills. So, exactly. Exactly. >> All right.

Her money's gone. Thank goodness. How short are you?

>> Okay. So, we are paying the rent, but we are late every month. So every check

we're we're coming up with the like we're catching up. So this next first of

the month we're going to be short. The next we'll catch up.

>> Okay. How much how much do you guys make per month? What do you both bring in?

>> We between us we bring probably Oh, I don't know the amount between us. I just did the yearly. Um the yearly between both

of us is 50K.

>> Between the both of you is 50K.

>> Yes. What do you guys do for a living?

>> Uh, I do aerospace manufacturing and she's a barista in a hotel.

>> Okay. I love that you said you do aerospace manufacturing, but let's get real. What is your job? You're only making $25,000 a year average between the two of you. What are you doing? >> I I do I do deburring, which is like the lowest. I am currently um in training.

Like I do have CC experience. I'm in training like within the next year. I do plan on moving up. I'm in the process of moving up to to a CNC position. How much would you make which will come with a raise? >> Um, probably about$ two or three dollars more. Probably about 25 at 28 at the

max. I'm guessing that's after, you know, I get some schooling and more training. >> How old are you guys in the process?

>> I am 39. We're both 39.

>> Okay. >> 39. And you guys, you don't even know what you make. So, it's really hard for Rachel to coach you up on You don't even know how much you make.

You've just given us We got a $50,000 figure. So, what debt Here's what here's what's got to happen, Leo. I'm going to be really honest with you, okay? If Ken and I were out to drinks with you and your and your newlywed wife, >> this is what we would this is this is what I would say to you.

>> Cocktail wisdom. Here it comes. >> I would say everything you've known and thought and done with money, we're going to do the complete opposite. >> Good decision.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Meaning, you don't really know where your money's going. You don't really know how much you make or bring in a month.

That's going to change.

so OCD about your money and where every

dollar is going >> that you're going to be able to rattle off what you guys spend at the grocery store every week, okay? Because you guys are going to have a very, very detailed budget. And we're going to give you some stuff, Leo, to help you help this happen. Okay? >> But that's the thing. >> We've been trying to >> Well, and and I'm gonna be honest too, Leo. you guys, you know, your jobs, what

you're making, you guys need to be making double. So, she's working as a barista. >> If I were her, I would be applying to be a receptionist somewhere, right? Go be an assistant to someone like >> go, you have to be in this position because you're both adults now and and if you want to have a family and you guys want to, you know, extend your lives, these incomes have to go up, which means probably a change of career, probably more for her. Yours sounds like it hopefully has some.

>> It's taking off. It's taking off.

She has kids. So, we already have kids in the like they're her kids. They're my stepkids. >> Okay. >> Um so, we their kids are definitely in the they're not full-time with us.

>> All right. Leo. Leo. Leo. Leo. It's It's a Okay. Yes. >> Hold on. Sorry. We have limited No, no, you're great. We're trying to help you. How much do you make per hour? Do you know that >> I make $21 an hour?

>> Okay. So a year from now you think or believe you're gonna get a two to3 an hour raise.

>> Yes. >> That's not that's not a career that's Yeah. But that's not a career that's taken off.

>> Yes. >> You're not taking off. You're on the doorstep of 40.

>> And And you've got to get serious. I'm not beating up on you. I'm just going dude. Like you you've got to have a plan

that moves you forward. not a year from now to a2 to3 dollar raise.

>> Okay. Same thing. So, we need to

collectively get together and say, "What do we want for our lives? What's a target?" >> Exactly. >> What must be true for us to make $100,000 >> combined?

>> You guys are time is moving, bro.

>> Yes, you're right. You're right. You're right. >> We don't have time at 39 to wait a year to make a$2 to3 bump. And Leo, what do you guys owe on your cars? What do you allow owning your cars? >> Uh, so, okay, so I own my vehicle that I

just purchased under a year ago, but it's giving me issues. So, getting a second job has been it's a possibility, but just for having >> No, no, no. See, that's the problem.

What is What does she What does she owe on hers? >> Her she owes 1,500 on her car.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. What uh what other debt do you guys have? Credit card. We have >> Wait, 1500 one credit total is what she owes. That's what's left on her loan for her >> Yes. Great. Yes. Great. Great. Great.

>> Our debt and credit is all we only have our credit card debt, which is $8,000.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, tonight >> and that's all our debt. >> All your debt. That's great. That's awesome. Okay. So, I would cut up the credit cards. Don't even make it a temptation. Your goal for >> next have a balance on our credit cards.

>> Well, that's great. We'll cut them up anyways. I don't Well, you have a balance. You got $8,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, we don't have a thing available to to spend on it. So, you're right. Like, >> oh, it's maxed out. Perfect. You say that like that's a good thing. Can I just say >> it's not a good thing. Not a good thing.

I'm embarrassed about it. >> No, Leo. Okay. So, no. You're do This is great. Okay. So, here's what I want you to do when you get off this call. Okay.

You both need to apply for second jobs.

Your goal is to get a $1,000 emergency fund, okay? In the next 60 days, 30

days, 40 days, and catching up on rent.

Those are your two goals, emergency fund and catching up on rent with the second job. Should should help free up some of that cash. And then once that happens, you guys start paying off this debt.

Smallest to largest, the car and then the credit cards. You can do this, Leo.

Stay on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll give you some stuff.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Happy to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is8825-5225.

Meg is up next in Utah. Meg, how can we

help today?

>> Hi. Um, my fiance is asking me to spend

my life saving from before I met him

into renovating his parents' home.

>> Have you asked him if he's lost his ever loving mind?

>> Well, I saved the money for a car and we

had a baby. So, we live in said home. We

plan on purchasing at home, but we haven't done any of those things yet.

>> You just rolled right by my very pertinent and relevant question, Meg.

Your life savings. How much is that?

>> That's 30K.

>> Okay. And you just blitzed right by my question. I'm serious. What emotion, what thoughts entered your mind when this guy said this to you?

Uh, mixed emotions. One, I feel like if

I purchase the home first, I'd feel

better about spending my life savings on it. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought it was your I thought it was his parents' home. >> Yes, but then she said they're going to buy it. When are y'all going to buy it?

>> Well, we're looking at doing that last year. Um, but then his parents were feeling bad about the fact that it would cost me 30k to essentially buy the loan

once, you know, everybody's >> pay. Why are y'all doing this deal? I don't understand. Why don't youall just go buy a house?

>> Um, so where I live, um, 30K does not

really get you anywhere to purchase a home. The average home in our neighborhood is probably >> Are they giving you the home?

>> No. Okay. Like >> essentially giving us equity on the home.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, you guys are not married, so that's your money, not his money. And in no situation should you give your money to his parents to renovate a home that you may or may not have. This is going to turn into an absolute nightmare. What about the car? You've been saving up for a car that you need. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Like like how bad do you need this car?

Not super bad. I work remote. Um, >> but is your current car failing is what I'm getting at. >> Uh, no. I I have a lease and my lease ends in December and I'm not willing to

purchase. >> Do you Okay, this $30,000 is your money.

Full stop. Period. You need to use it for your stuff. Now, the day that he puts a a ring on your finger and you guys get married and you join finances.

>> When are you getting married? It's your fiance.

>> I don't know. I have a six-month-old at home. So, one day when I sleep at night.

>> One day when you can sleep at night.

>> And I'm assuming that's his baby.

Correct. >> He is. Yes. >> Why doesn't he have any money?

>> Uh, he does now. So, >> well then why does he need your money?

>> Um, well, he does now, but he has a lot

of credit card debt that he needs to take care of. Um, I was helping with that when I had a whole lot more money,

but I stopped working three jobs when I had a baby. So now we make about the same.

>> Okay. You called to ask us what we

thought about this. Correct.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I know what you thought about it.

You gave me the mixed emotions. Why don't you just tell us what you really felt? What did you feel when he hit you with that?

I felt like this is a dumb idea.

>> Great. You are correct.

>> Ding, ding, ding. >> That's what Rachel and I think. Oddly enough, >> Meg wins. >> Let me pull the audience out here. We got about 50 people out there. If you think this is a dumb idea, raise your hand. >> Everybody in the audience, >> we got we got a lot of hands raised.

Meg, >> there's your uh focus group.

>> So So number one, Meg, we do not combine

finances. We do not share finances. We do not pay on each other's debts and or homes or future-in-law homes. We do

nothing combining until we are married.

You have no financial

obligation to help him and you have no protection. If you guys were married and something happened, then we can get Utah State involved and we can figure that out with assets and everything, but you have no protection, Meg. Okay. So, number one, no combining finances.

Number two, it's I I would go this weekend, Meg. If you love him and you think he's the one, you got a six-month-old together, you're living together, I think you just go get a marriage license. Y'all need to get married. You need to start this life. You've you're in it. You're acting married. Just go do it. Do a wedding later, whatever the celebration is.

Like, you guys need to start actually living in the reality of which you live.

And so, if I were you, and if you love him, right, you want to marry him, right? >> I love him. I don't love how he handles money. Okay. Well, then there's a red flag. >> This is a great reason not to marry him.

>> Yes. >> Yes. Because then his debt is my debt and I've lived debt three.

>> Well, does he is he is he on board of

trying to get out of debt? Because you said you were trying to help him pay off debt and you gave him some money to pay off debt. Is he working his way out of debt?

>> He has some um what's what's a nice way

to say it? Uh interesting ideas on how to get out of debt. He has a philosophy of um my goal in life is that in one

year we don't have to have this conversation about money because I'll be making so much more that we don't have to worry about money every day.

>> This is what I thought in high school. I thought that one day I would be able to dunk a basketball. Just kind of thought it would happen. >> Never happened, Rachel.

>> And money magnifies the situation.

You're never not going to have to not talk about it because you make money.

>> Yeah. This guy, this is a tough situation.

uh you need to define the relationship.

This that's what needs to happen here.

Number one, no, I'm not giving you money. This is crazy. I don't feel comfortable marrying you until we get on the same page with money. So therefore, putting money into a future thing. No.

No. No. Love you. No.

>> Did I mention that I love you? No. All right. That's first thing.

And and and I'm not kidding. I I actually don't want you to go down to the courthouse. And Rachel doesn't either now. >> No, I don't.

But I hate that you guys have a six-month old. I mean, like, you know, the my my hope is that we don't want to further complicate it. >> No, we don't. But I do hope that you guys work to mend this for the sake of the six-month old and for your for your futures together.

>> I agree. Well, if if I had him on the phone, I go, "Do you love this woman?" And hopefully, he'd say yes. And I go, "Why don't you throw out all your cockamame ideas that don't require you to do hard work and work for a while to get successful? And why don't you ask your fiance what she thinks about money and why she thinks about money?" >> Because she has $30,000 >> because she's doing it better than you, Sparky.

>> And so, you know, that that's what needs to happen. He needs to man up, you know.

>> Yeah. And for the most part is okay. I

mentioned I can just manage money. I'm great at managing money. I'm great at saving money. I can get us wherever we want.

>> Well, then tell him if he wants to marry you that you're going to manage the money and he's going to be in the budget meeting, but he's going to sit there and he's going to learn, right? Like if he's willing to let you, if he's willing to marry you and we now adopt your money principles, if this guy's really willing to do it, which by the way, >> he would need to show that to you.

>> So, >> yeah, >> Meg, I'm sorry. >> I tried Yeah, I tried to have those conversations. It's just >> Yeah. Well, maybe he needs to know that you're not going to stick around.

>> You know, define the relationship.

>> Rachel, what do you think? >> Don't give him money. That's my number one. Me, >> you're not crazy or mean by not putting your $30,000 into his parents' home.

>> You know, I was going to ask James if I should get ordained so I could marry couples on the spot for future situations like this, but now married.

>> Now, I would have said no, Meg. >> We would have not. >> No marriage.

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[Music]

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It may not be available in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Renee in New York. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young?

Isn't it better for them to work, live at home, and save their money so they can buy a place to live when they move?

Why move out to pay a landlord for a place to live? How will they ever achieve the American dream of home ownership? If kids are working hard and saving, what's the advantage of moving out? There are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence than throwing money away at rent every month.

>> Oh boy. Well, Renee, >> are you sure your name's not Karen?

Because that sounds a little woke to me.

>> I mean, this is why we have so many snowflakes because of this woman has

raised snowflakes.

>> That's my part of the answer. I I think that's it. What do you think? This is Okay. So, all right. So, okay.

>> Okay. So because it's not a math at that point it's not a math issue because there's something about and she says there's other ways to have dignity and independence maybe to a degree but there's also something about being a full >> what they clean their room >> they're cleaning their room you know uh when our maid service came in they commented about our oldest son Jimmy about his toilet was spotless

>> Jimmy he's doing great mom way to go I

mean this whole question is so I'm not listen this is pathetic >> and questions ends plural. There's like she's she's she's very mad. >> All right, I'll break this. Oh, well, she's getting me mad. Okay, here we go.

Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young?

>> At any point on the show, has any one of us ever recommended that some kid move out in their teens?

The answer to that is no. Pull the archives. We're talking about people that are out of college and are old enough >> to live on their own and they have a job. And we say for a season they don't have a job, they need to move out >> and for a season it's okay. We're not like hardcore about it. But there is a point that that people that live with their parents for a endless amount of time to quote unquote just save money.

>> You lose the life lessons. You lose life. You lose and the dating thing too, Ken. I always go back to that. Could you imagine 26-y old guy >> and you're like, "Okay, uh, where should we go after dinner? You want to go see a movie? You got to go got to go to my parents house." There was a movie about this with Matthew McConn and Sarah Jessica Parker, one of my all-time favorite romcoms, incidentally. Um, >> Matthew McConna, what a gem.

>> And the whole thing is that the parents didn't want him to leave. And let me tell you something about Renee. Uh, Renee doesn't want her kids to leave.

And so, it's all in here. Let me let me go with this one. This was my favorite one here. Um, why move out only to pay a

landlord for a place to live? because that's what every other freaking American does until they can afford a home and it's called personal responsibility. But no, uh uh there are

other ways to achieve a sense of dignity

and independence. I mean, this has got a little bit of like Ben Franklin to it.

Like she's really pinning this away. And then uh uh uh then throwing your money away on rent every month. And I'm going to let you because you're so much nicer than me. Why do we think that renting is not throwing money away? >> Yeah. >> I I don't want you to say more. >> Yeah, you're buying time. You don't own, so you're not like responsible for every expense. And home ownership is expensive. So, rent for a little bit.

>> Yeah. There, man. >> There's no dignity or independence.

>> If you can afford to move out >> and you got a job and just come on, I'm so tired of all >> for a short period of time, I'm okay with it, right? Like, if you graduate college, you need six months at home to figure out a place to live and like I get that. Like, that is fine. It's not that legalist, >> but this endless amount to just save

money and I'm going to go live >> at my parents 26 27.

>> And by the way, Renee says it. She goes, "Until they have enough for a down payment." Well, okay. Let's run the numbers on that. >> That's not a two-year play.

>> No, >> just if you look at housing. So, that's why some of you who hear me and you're now offended by me. Uh, one, I don't care. And two, I'm actually basing on real numbers based on this woman's question. You do not have a one year or

a year and a half or twoear scenario.

This is going to be years in the making with them living in the nest. And this is the real issue. A lot of parents don't want their kids to leave. >> Yeah. >> Because they don't Now, now I'm really >> Oh, I can't wait. >> You know why? >> Codependence. What? >> It's it's a form of codependence, but they do not like the life that they will have when the kids are gone. that they're holding on for their own >> worried about what life is like with their spouse when the kiddos are gone.

They have they have I'm just telling you that's what it is.

>> And those little moms, which I'm a mom of a little boy. I get it.

>> You want Charles living with you when he's 24. >> Well, not for his sake, but I do help him a lot more than I at this age.

>> Why is that? >> I don't know. He's just so sweet. I put I put >> your girls are darling, but why do you why do you Prince Charles? >> I don't know. It's a mother son thing. I don't know. But I will I will go above and beyond for now more so than the girls. >> But >> bottom line is we don't kick people out.

It's not our decision. We're we're just hosting a show that you listen to. You do what you want. But we don't for we don't tell people to kick their kids out. >> And I think one of the top three for me besides it's the it's the romantic relationships. I'm not going to lie.

That it's one of the I think it's a very unattractive thing.

>> What do you mean? >> If you were if I was single and dating >> Oh, yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> And the dude's living with his parents. >> Yeah. Yeah. in vice. I don't know.

>> You might as well have a giant sweatshirt that says loser on it.

>> Which, by the way, based on the last call, I want to circle back to this because there are people that are watching and listen. I'm going to be serious for a moment, okay? There are people that are watching, listen to us, and we are we we blown away that you let

us into your ears and and and give you

advice. But I want to say this just because I'm I'm now I'm that guy.

>> I love it. Go, Ken. >> I'm 51. If you are a woman and you are

single right now and you are dating a dude who you are attracted to, I don't care what the reasons are, but you know somewhere in your gut that he doesn't have his act together.

Would you please have the dignity to press pause and put it on the line for him and go, "I'm concerned." Because if you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut and you marry a loser or you

have a baby with a loser because you're not responsible enough to protect that romantic moment, you are gonna pay big-time financial and emotional consequences. So, we just don't say it enough. I just want to go listen, ladies. Listen to your heart.

Get some guys in I mean to your gut and get some people in your life who go, "He's a really attractive, charismatic

loser." >> But it's the last word that's the operating word. Rachel, I'm You know what I'm saying? Like I'm not angry. I'm not But I mean, >> yeah, >> please. These romantic decisions lead to

massive relationship and financial decisions. >> Yes. Yes. >> Please like >> 100%. Don't Don't hop in the sack with a loser. It's This is a great life rule.

>> That's all he wanted to say. >> Is it not a good rule to live by?

>> Yeah. >> By the way, goes for guys, too.

>> Probably very old school in that scenario. So, >> don't hop in a sack with a woman that's crazy.

>> Cuz then you procreate create crazy

>> and then you're stuck with it. I mean, it's like this show is about winning with money. Here's one of the rules.

Don't procreate with crazy. Don't live with somebody who's a loser.

>> You would be surprised at how wealthy you could become. >> I do think you What? >> Am I right? >> Well, yes, cuz we get these calls a lot from the from the relational side.

>> Yeah. And it's all back to those two >> and they and they tell us scenarios and we're like, >> "What are you doing with them or her?" Like she's she sounds terrible or he sounds terrible. >> And I think either number one, you just don't have people in your life that are going to say it >> or there's not enough. You're so deep in it that there's no mirror. You can't see out of it. You don't see a difference. You need someone else, which is why they're calling two strangers, right?

Which we appreciate. Yeah.

>> Um, >> by the way, >> to be able to to Yeah.

>> You hear it in their voice. You go, "Why are you with them?" And they're kind of like, and here's what happens when you sell your dignity for companionship. you sell your gut, you sell your values, any of those scenario, when you sell that for that emotional feeling that that person provides, you are setting yourself up for relation and relational and financial disaster. So, somebody had to

say it. I I think this is life skills 101. What I just said there is not new, nor is it that deep. But boy oh boy is it right. >> Common sense not so common anymore.

>> Not anymore.

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Uh Mark is joining us now in Birmingham.

Mark, how can we help?

>> Hey, I appreciate you guys taking my call. How's it going? >> We're doing well, sir. How are you today? >> Pretty good. Pretty good. So, just to get right into it, um uh I'm preparing

to get my debt snowball rolling. And um

I have uh I have roughly like 10 to 11,000 in debt. It's not credit cards or vehicle payments. Um it's like just personal debt. And >> how much did you say? How much?

>> Between 10 and 11,000.

>> Okay. And I have a pay 9,600 of it is is is um

it's the IRS. I have a payment arrangement with them like 205 a month.

>> Okay. >> And the rest is like personal debt. Um my wife has student student loans like 23,000. I pay all the bills. Um I take

home like 4,300 a month.

>> Um and I take care of everything. Her money is her money to me. And um so my question is uh do I focus on on just my

debt and then like move on to the next baby steps and you know start uh investing in um the emergency fund and then like you know trying to save for a home or do I include her debt um with

mine all at once? You get what I'm saying? >> Yep. I do know what you're saying. Um, my question to you is why don't you guys

combine finances and have a checking account where all of your money goes in and you guys decide how to best use the household money?

>> Uh, just I mean just being honest is because of that IRS like when we got married. Um, I was a I was an owner operator for for like I was driving trucks. I still drive trucks, but at the time I was an owner operator and I told her I was being straight up with her like look uh you know I got this issue with the IRS so she didn't want to file jointly >> because of that if she didn't want to you know kind of I guess jam herself up but uh I do like we do have a joint account where I I deposit all the money like and then like she can pay bills out of and stuff like that.

>> Okay. Well, if you guys combine a checking account, that doesn't affect the IRS.

>> Right. It was It was just me being irresponsible. I mean, it wasn't her money. It was uh >> No, I know. I know. But that's what I'm saying though is if you guys combined finances into a checking account and saw it as a household budget, the IRS isn't affected by that. That that doesn't change your taxes. So, I'm just curious

>> if Yeah. Yeah. If everything's in the same checking account, that doesn't change your taxes. So, >> Oh, so even if we file, like even when we >> Well, how you file your taxes would would be one thing.

But you guys, how where your income goes, your paychecks, where they go when you're paid, the IRS doesn't care about that. So, if you guys are in one account, you're you're a household account. Now, how you file your taxes, whether individual or or married filing jointly, that's, you know, that's different.

everything what that shows is number one that we are a team and this household that we are running together as a married couple. You get further with your financial goals faster and you actually end up having a better marriage because of it because you lean on each other, you trust each other, communications opened and you see yourselves as one. So there's a financial benefit to it, but there's also a relational emotional benefit to say, "Yeah, we're we're married." Like when we said yes and I do and put rings on and created this covenant between us, we're sharing our lives.

Like this is everything. You know, we are all in this together. So um that may take some conversations to kind of get her around to that idea, but that would be the ultimate goal for me for you guys, Mark, is to say, "Yes, we are one." And so how So if that was the case, you bring home 43 a month.

>> Uh, she has a small business. Um, she

has she makes and produce her own skin care products. I don't know how much she makes a month. I just know like a year is like five between 5 and 10,000. Um,

like I said, I take care of everything. So, I just kind of like stay out her stay out of her business. >> How much How much does >> she makes? 10,000 a year. 10 to 25,000.

>> No, no, no. Between five and 10,000 >> a year.

>> Yeah. For her? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's not a lot of money. >> Why? Yeah. Why is she not working?

>> Uh because we have we have uh we have three kids and another one on the way.

>> Okay. So, she's more of a stay-at-home, >> right? Right. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, then that means I mean I mean honestly, Mark, at that point, it's like 800 bucks a month that she So, it's not even that much that she's going to have to quote unquote merge with you.

It's not, you know what I mean? Like, it's you guys together. It's not like she's got a job making 80,000 and she's like, "This is mine. This is yours." And there's kind of a harder emotional So, I just kind of leave it, you know, I just take care. I just leave it. >> So, you Okay. So, that's kind of like her. Okay. Yep. Well, that $800 that she makes a month, eight eight to a,000

could be very beneficial in this in these baby steps, right? So, you guys could look at that to say people go and try to find an extra job to get $1,000 a month. And as a stay-at-home mom, that's what she's doing, which is awesome. So, >> $9,600 right there.

>> Yeah. So, what I would do is I would uh the IRS debt needs to be cleaned up first. So the so the 9600 from the IRS I

would clean that out. We usually say Mark smallest to largest debt but the IRS gets a pass to the front because we want them out of your lives. So the 9600

um I would Yep. pay that off. And again if you guys can work together you could have this paid off in seven to eight months just even with with what she's bringing in. Um, but that gets knocked out and then I would be and then you have what probably about 400 left. Is that what you said? Because it was 9,600 and you have 10,000.

>> Right. Right. Just personal debt.

>> Okay. So, get that 400 cleaned up. Um, and then Yes. And then you guys together attack that 23,000 of her student loans.

So, I want your household debtree and then we will move on to a household emergency fund with 3 to six months of expenses. So, um, okay. So for you,

Mark, how much? So you you bring home4,300. How much is rent or mortgage?

How much are you guys paying in that a month? >> Uh yeah, I'm renting right now and it's 1320. >> 1320. Okay. Um All right, that's good.

Yep. So yeah, this is um and honestly too, Mark, I mean it this idea of

getting out of debt and getting this emergency fund in place, if you've been listening to us any amount of time, I mean it is it is scorched earth. It is extra jobs. It is like getting this done

>> ASAP. Really, really, really, really, really fast. >> On that point, what do you do for a living? >> I drive trucks. >> Okay. Is is that skill is there, is

there a way for you to pick up a decent amount of hours where it's actually going to make a difference just with the truck driving skill?

>> Uh, I mean, not at this job. I do something on the side, but um it's not something I I report. I didn't really include it in in my, you know, my overall >> Okay. What do you do on the side? >> What do you do on the side and how much?

>> It's like waste management, some like, you know, like junk removal type stuff.

I have a pickup truck.

>> Yeah. >> If I'm if I'm hustling like I should, then I could I mean, I can make like 2,000 easy a month.

>> 2,000. >> That's great, Mark.

>> Mark, buddy, that's the play cuz you're Listen, your wife's busy, man. She got two and one on the way and and you know, there's just not a whole lot of margin there. And that's something you all decided. Love that.

>> Uh 2,000 bucks a month could turn into

4,000 bucks a month if you you're hustling and you figure out a way to scale yourself. I like that play a lot,

>> you know. >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. >> Like I'm Mark, I'm telling you, that's a great opportunity. See, not look >> and you're a hard worker. I appreciate that about you, Mark. I mean, you're you're not scared of hard work.

>> Love it, Mark. Get after it, man. and then scale yourself, you know, >> him like own his own thing one day.

>> That's what I'm getting at. Mark may be surprised where this could go, you know?

>> Yeah. You're making 4,300 driving trucks. And like Ken saying, if you could make 4,000 doing >> doing this, I mean, >> I'd find some high school guys, some college guys in the summer that want some good money hourly and you're just loading them up. No pun intended.

>> That could be fun. That's a fun dream. Sit down with your wife tonight, Mark. We're going to give you every dollar >> and you guys create a household budget.

both of your incomes go in and just start to dream. Seriously, dream how fast could we get out of debt? What would it look like for Mark to own his own business? I like it.

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All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. Susan, how can we help?

>> Um, yes. Uh, thank you so much for having me on the show today. Um, my boyfriend and I are going to be starting FPU soon, and we're both really excited.

Uh when we start this, my boyfriend's going to be able to knock out the very little debt he has just right out of his checking account and probably be in about 75% into a six-month emergency

fund. >> Wow. Great. >> Yeah, he's he's doing wonderful. Uh me, unfortunately, uh I'm not that great. Um I got divorced about eight years ago and I just in a bad place. I relied heavily on debt and credit cards and I've got about 90,000 um in debt. Okay.

>> 57 of that's student loans. I've got a a

vehicle loan for 17 and the rest is like a personal loan and I got about 5,000 on a credit card I'm still working on.

>> Okay. >> Um we got some short-term and long-term goals together. Our shortterm goal is uh

we want me to be able to stay at home with a baby someday.

>> And given my age, we are actually seeing a fertility doctor now for some help with conceiving. And uh my boyfriend wants to help me pay off my debt and make sure we're in the place for me to stay at home when that when our prayers are answered. And I know we aren't married yet, but it's definitely happening soon. Sooner than later, he asked me my ring size like it's going to happen. So I didn't know with our given situation. Would this be okay?

>> No.

>> Yeah. Can Can you explain I tried to explain it to him last night and I and u

wait I know I can't articulate it good enough. >> Okay. So, wait a second. This is his idea.

>> He Yes. He wants to help me. And he's been I mean, he's been such a blessing to my daughter and I like I get it. So,

let me ask you, what did you say to him? I want to know what Susan tried to explain. So, you knew we were going to say no, didn't you? >> Oh. Oh, I definitely knew you guys were saying. >> I'm very glad I'm actually talking to you all, not Dave.

>> Tell us why. >> We are so nice. >> I'm kidding. Susan, intimidating. No, but I love his advice. I love it all.

>> I know. So, Rachel's she's gone. Okay.

So, what what was your explanation? Give us the summary of how you explained >> why the answer is no. >> I just know the data shows that you know when you're married you're you're the data just shows that. See, I can't articulate it very well. Um and just biblically biblically.

>> Okay. you. But but then also on my side,

I did all the right things that first marriage and it still didn't work. And I'm like I'm happy. I'm safe. I'm secure. >> Like I I'm not I don't want to push it too much. I mean I'm I'm mentioning it every once in a while like hey we've been together three and a half years.

>> Yeah. And y'all are seeing a fertility specialist Susan. I'm like you guys are about to start a family. So like >> we got the cart literally before the >> You're not crazy. You're not like out of the blue. feel like marriage is a big

ring. >> I married him last year with a bread tie, but he's just >> So I Yeah. So >> I like that. >> So the order So So there's a couple of big events happening in your lives and you called us so we'll give you our thoughts. Ken, I'll give you mine said no. >> And if you disagree with what I'm about to say, my order of events, >> I like this. Um, I don't mind you seeing a fertility specialist and be talking through, but I would not be going forward with anything big decision-wise

until you're married. And so, because we've talked to already one person on the show that has a six-month-old with a fiance who she's about to break up with, I think, cuz Ken was like, "He's a loser. He's terrible. He's not great." And I know your fiance or your boyfriend is different, >> but I'm just saying life happens. Things

happen. We get calls on this show all the time and it's just it's it's relationships that end up >> Why are you okay? I'm sorry. I was quick. I I thought I was going to agree with you. I'm not sure I'm on board with her going through the fertility doctor

conversation without a ring on my dying.

>> I know. So, he needs to step up. Tell him that. >> I know.

Well, I'm okay with I'm okay with like I'm not I'm not I'm okay with them interviewing doctors and like asking the question because they're about to be engaged. I wouldn't go I wouldn't go forward. If she wants to freeze her eggs, she can, but I wouldn't actually do anything fertility wise until they're married. >> My concern is is if you go do that, it's a slippery slope.

>> It could be. So, y'all need to get married, Susan.

finances, baby, and the baby finance thing can happen >> right right away. Okay. So, what I would do if I were you guys is to say, and hopefully out loud y'all are saying, "Yes, we're going to get married." Right? Like that's a conversation that's being said.

>> Um, and do you know I know he asked for a ring, but do you guys say like, "Oh yeah, by the end of the year we'll be married." Like do do y'all have >> a timeline? >> Um, no, not really. I mean, we >> So, we need a timeline. >> The other night and we don't need anything big like >> Great.

So, >> so we need a timeline. >> I could marry you guys on the show.

>> Ken really wants to marry someone.

>> I got to do it. >> Okay, so y'all need to make it. This is what I'm in Nashville now. So, number one, I would do timeline of wedding. End

of the year. I don't know, it's August. Let's by December, we're getting married. Okay. Yeah. >> And then in December, financially, where's everyone at in December? He has paid off his debt. In December, he's going to have I'm making this up. Susan, $30,000 of debt or I'm sorry, of of cash, $40,000 in his emergency fund. I don't know. >> He's going to have this. Susan's going to have worked and Susan is going to pay off her credit card debt by by December.

>> 5K in credit card. Susan's going to be kind of working through the next debt like you know where are you going to be Susan >> in December and then when you guys get married >> now how much of the money that he has saved cuz he's going to go right back to baby step two once you guys say I do and you guys are going to work to pay off the rest of your debt but he will use his savings to do that >> after you're married. >> How much does he have? >> Okay.

saved up now. >> Okay. So, so by December, >> what's your car worth? I know you owe 17. >> 17. Well, I don't know. It's probably worth about as much as I owe now.

>> Okay. >> And how what do you guys make a year combined?

>> Um, he actually just had to take a pay cut with a promotion, which is crappy, but it's okay. Um, he makes 95 now.

>> Do what? >> Yeah.

>> Um, >> 95. >> He makes about 95, and then >> I'm going to be making probably around 45 if I get to keep the overtime. time I've been putting in if not >> What do you do? >> 40. >> What do you do? >> I'm I'm actually working at just like a manufacturing plant making brackets right now. It pays better than than anything. I I went to school, got a bachelor's degree, but I have no idea what to do with it. >> What did you get a bachelor's degree?

>> Yeah. Well, I got you. I'm going to give you >> I wanted I wanted to be a teacher and then last minute I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And so I asked my adviser, what can I do with the credits I have to still graduate? And so I have a inter discip interdisciplinary studies, >> the biggest croc of crap in the history of education. >> Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Okay.

>> I should have just never went to college. >> Hey, can I give you a pre-wedding gift?

I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Assessment in it. It's only takes about 18 to 20 minutes. Please take it.

>> I promise you.

>> I promise you it'll give you some clarity going forward. And if we got to get you back on the show another time to talk about your results, that's fine.

But um you you need to be figuring out

what can I do? And I think there's a lot more that you could do than you realize.

I love, by the way, I want to applaud you. I love that you're in a manufacturing plant and you're putting brackets together. I I actually >> I've never done this before, but I'm killing it. I I actually like it.

>> I You know what? And that that made my day, actually. I'm There's no shame in that. >> No.

And she wants to stay home eventually with the baby. So, I hope you guys get married in December. I hope you get pregnant. And I hope by a year from now >> make some more brackets and then make some babies.

>> There we go. >> That's and I want y'all debtree and you can do it all. And I that's what I hope for you Susan. But but again the order is really important and where people screw up not just from like a biblical sense right.

I mean that's that's totally fair. But from the data, like what you're saying, when people mess up this order, it it gets it gets really difficult from a financial standpoint to start to win because things happen in life and we want to just safeguard and be wise.

>> I think some of his I think some of his hesitation is like he just recently kind of got his life together. He's always had amazing work ethic, made six figures, if not close to, but he he struggled with addiction. And so I mean up until about 2 and 1/2 years ago he was spending anywhere from 800 to 1,000 a week on his addiction. And so he's been two two and a half years clean.

He's like I just want to get better.

Yeah. Like are you all doing premarital counseling?

>> We're I mean we're going to We went to some counseling when he was struggling and I told him, "Hey, get clean or I'm gone." >> Yeah. >> Um and he did and >> that's great. Yeah. So you guys can take your time, but don't jump the don't jump the baby before the the wedding either.

Okay. >> Uhhuh. So be wise. Thank you so much. Be wise. >> Yeah. Appreciate you. Wow.

>> It's back to my rant earlier. Just be careful, folks. Careful who we're married.

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This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. The lovely, the talented Rachel Cruz joins me. 88 8255225.

We're here for you. Let's get going.

We've got Gary. I hope I'm saying that right. In California. Gary, how can we help?

>> Yes, you did say that right. >> Well, you know, I'm hooked on phonics. A lot of people don't know this, but uh a lot of hard work there. Rachel, >> how can we help today?

>> Um, so I think we're gonna continue the theme with marriage. Um, but it's not my

result of my marriage. No, >> my mom. So, >> yeah. Yeah. So, um I'm going to try to make it very clear because it's kind of a messy situation, but my mom remarried when I was 10 and they broke up within

um the same year. And they've kept this on and off relationship of like I help you, you help me, but totally no benefits. Um and that just bled in over

the last 30 years. Can you tell us real quick what does that mean on they help each other? No benefit financially.

>> Financially like my mom's co-signed for cars. Um filled out forms for him. He'll

give her rides places.

Um >> so everything but

>> Oh, cats and dogs.

>> I see. I gota Okay. Friends, no

benefits. That's what you're saying.

>> Yeah. Ah. Well, then he went and adopted a son when uh I was 20 years old, so that was about 20 years ago. And um she

became the babysitter and just

>> this is just a absolutely zero boundaries weird situation. We got it.

>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. Um so I decided my mom did too, but

for her own reasons, I decided about a year and a half ago to no longer be active in their lives. Um because

>> there's no boundaries and >> uh you know my husband and I worked to the baby steps years ago when we've worked hard to get to where we're at.

We're not wealthy but we're very comfortable. >> Good. >> And um I don't know I mean they've never

asked me for money but they you know just gave you a snapshot of their financial picture. They're on my stepdad's on disability and they live in housing and they don't want to help themselves.

They >> not together. Correct. Are they living together?

>> Yeah. Yeah, cuz it's his son. But >> so they live together.

>> Not my mom. Not my mom.

>> Okay. The stepdad and the son. Okay. I'm sorry. >> Oh, okay. All right. Sorry. I was in the same confusion. Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. Sorry. >> No, you're good. You're good. >> Um, so >> yeah, but they she recently just stopped deciding to help him with with stuff and >> Yeah. So, she's put up a boundary. And so, what's what's the question for you?

So his his stepson who considers me his big sister, which I feel really bad about because I don't feel the same, um reaches out every so often, wants that relationship, begs us to call and speak with him. And for me, I'm just I their

financial storm, their emotional storm keeps bleeding over into our lives. And I just I can't carry it anymore. And I don't know >> as a Christian like that's really hard for me to accept that it's okay but

>> mean okay I love your heart. Let me ask this how is it how is the your stepdad and

the steps and his son how is their financial situation bleeding over into your life you and your husband how is that specifically happening?

So, one big and what made me really make the decision just to at least take a break at the very least, um I I helped

them find housing, a place that accepts housing. And I got it through a friend's mom. Um they broke the rules and they

got evicted and this is in in the middle of tax season. I'm a preparer. He's

demanding that I go find him and you >> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Got it.

>> And I said, "That's not my problem. You broke the rules." >> Yeah. I don't even have time even if I wanted to. >> Right. I'm in the busiest season of my entire career. Yeah. >> Now, okay. I just wanted to know uh Yeah. I I um And this is the stepdad that did this >> and not technically even your stepdad, right? I mean, like there's not even like a legal I mean, they haven't even been together for 20 30 years.

>> And when they were, it wasn't even it was within a year. Yeah. Um >> it sounds like your mom's >> unhealthy relationship with him has now become your unhealthy relationship with this man. You know what I mean? It's not even like a >> but now the stepdad or whatever this dude whatever we're going to call him.

He he has honored the boundary but it sounds like his son is the one that's just calling you just relationally.

>> How old is he? The son >> he's now 19. Um >> does he ask for money?

>> No. No. Is he manipulative in the middle? >> Yeah. But is he manipulative in any way?

>> I think emotionally because he want he's like can you call and talk to him? He really want to talk to you. He's sad >> and I know he's playing the party over the triangle. >> I knew there was a reason >> and he probably isn't meaning to. He doesn't know. He's a 19-year-old kid with his dad, right? I'm like, he doesn't know any better.

>> Well, I I Rachel's probably better at this, so I'll get out of her way.

>> Well, I just I Here's the thing. I think it's okay for you to tell the young man why you want to put a boundary up.

>> And I think you just I don't think you smooth talk it. I think you just go, "Hey, you're stuck in the middle and I'm

sorry. >> Um, this is not your fault, but and I

don't want to say anything that makes your your your dad look bad >> for my reasons. It has nothing to do with you. I need a boundary of separation um in talking to you about

the family stuff because if he were to just call you >> and probably say, "Hey, how's how's everybody doing?" And it was just relational. I have a hunch that you might be okay with that. Correct.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> But you might. >> No, I don't think she really care. I mean, I mean, I don't think she cares.

>> Okay, great. >> And that doesn't make you a bad person. I just think it's this random guy that your mom's attached to adopts this guy

and now he's like, "What is happening?

This is not my life. >> I can't have a relationship with you.

just say, "I can't have a relationship with you, and I'm really sorry for for where I'm at in my life." Just you don't have to explain it, by the way, because he's not going to like it. That's why I was mining to see. Is it Is it that you just don't like when he talks about the dad stuff? Cuz that's >> right. That's right. That's right. >> But if it's just I don't need this relationship, you tell him.

>> There's a great book. I don't know if we have it. Do we have boundaries by Henry Cloud on site? We do not. You need to get the book Boundaries by our good friend Dr. Henry Cloud. Uh there's I tell you what, while you're at it, buy Necessary Endings. Read both of those books together and he will literally in that book coach you through it. >> Jerry, do you do you and your husband have kids? >> Um >> yeah, we have a 10-year-old and a four-year-old. >> Okay. Um Man,

>> what do you think? What?

>> No, I don't think it's too harsh. I mean, I think there has to be a I think um I think it would be cruel to just ghost him, right? I mean, >> I think you do have to Tell them and just tell them the situation, Jerry, of like, hey, listen, >> I and just, you know, and it's going to be awkward. It's going to be hard.

Write it out if you have to to kind of stick to a script because you feel bad for the kid, right?

um you know between two married people and kid I mean I I don't know but that's not your responsibility. So hear me say that you don't have responsibility in this. This is strings from your mom's >> to hear >> yes from your mom's unhealthy relationships that have woven into your life and to cut those >> is totally fair. Um, but I think too

having the heart and the spirit to say, you know, God, if there is a place in the future and if I'm supposed to be in his life, continue to open doors, soften my heart. And you may have a change of heart later in life, but right now, you got two kids. You're both working full-time. And yeah, I I I think that

that's fair. It's going to be an awkward, hard conversation. We're >> with you, Gary. You're a good person. Do what's right for you.

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Okay, folks. Big news. just uh boy, I

guess it was Tuesday earlier this week, we launched the Ramsay Show Live. That

means we're going out on the road, taking the show to Chicago and Orlando.

And I've got uh right here, fresh off

the presses. This is real paper.

>> Ken's favorite thing to do. >> Favorite sound of all time.

>> Just >> team hates it. >> The listeners hate it, but Ken says it.

>> The listeners don't. >> Yeah, they do. They comment, Ken.

>> Do they really? I think I think someone said they comment about the noise. Is this true? >> I'm not even going to do it. >> I'm sorry. Rush Limbaugh made it famous.

I don't care. I like it.

>> Uh but Orlando and Chicago both sold out. Our two They're done. >> We're going two cities. Uh and they are sold out. So if you wanted to see us in Chicago on the 30th of September, sold

out. Uh Orlando sold out. So here's what

we want to know. Uh, and when we posted uh George and and you and I are in

Chicago together, >> George, John, Jade in Orlando. And when we posted our social media thing, it was fun. People were jumping in the comments telling us what city they wanted to come to. So, here it is. Where do you want us to come to next?

>> Where do you want? You got to tell us.

Give us some feedback. >> Let us know in the comments. >> You want us to come to the Big Apple? >> We'll go. >> We like it. Start spreading the news.

>> A little San Diego. >> Leaving today. >> A little >> No bugs in San Diego. I like San Diego.

>> We'll go San Diego. >> Uh Dallas. >> We'll go Phoenix. >> You know Oh, I love Phoenix.

>> We can go Phoenix. >> Listen, get a good football team. Maybe I go to Dallas. All right. Sorry, that was that was unnecessary.

>> Vegas.

>> We can see the Backstreet Boys.

>> Backstreet's back. All right. >> They uh launched more dates in February.

>> Of all the shows to see in Vegas, that's not one I would choose.

>> It will change your life.

>> I I remember that era. It was a good era. It's a good era, but I don't know that I'd want to see that one. But I don't know. >> I'll play some videos at the break. >> Okay. Oh, yeah. Rachel just returned. I'll bring you in. By the way, girls trip. >> So, go to ramseyolutions.com/events

and click on the link uh or click on the link in the show notes. Um, and we want you to tell us this is your chance to

vote, America. Do you want us to come to your city? And who wouldn't want me and Rachel and George to come do what we do?

It's just going to be so much fun. I can't wait. By the way, fun story. We posted uh that we were coming to Chicago and I put on there bring the deep dish in the video and uh can I tell you Maladis is bringing deep dish pizza to

the Chicago show. >> They reached out. >> So, this could turn into a thing where we go to a city and I basically beg for free food >> cuz I'm not above it. I like free food.

So Ken likes free stuff.

>> I do like the free stuff. I can be bought. This just if anybody's wondering, I can. Uh so there you go.

It's going to be a lot of fun. What cities is there a city you would like to go to? If Rachel, what would be your top three? I'll go back to Vegas. >> Vegas is one. Give me two more. Give me Give me Vegas. >> Uh I'll go New York. New York City.

>> I like that. >> And uh let's go uh Kansas City. Maybe

get a little Taylor spotting.

>> Really? >> I don't know with Travis. I don't know.

Can't. Nobody wants to go to Kansas City. >> Kansas City is a great city.

>> It's a great city. I'm kidding. I just wanted to create some fake controversy. I love Kansas City. Barbecue's amazing.

Love Kansas City. Love to go there.

Everybody don't get offended. I was just kidding. >> Oh, Packers. Oh, they want us to go.

>> Green Bay. Now, that one I might have to actually say no to.

>> Who? Green Bay. There's like one thing to do in Green Bay. >> They live there. >> I know. I'm giving him a hard time.

>> Absolutely. I'm giving him a hard time.

absolutely offensive to people sitting right there. >> I kid. I kid, but it's not a top five,

right? I'm going to go. >> It'd be my fourth. >> I'm going to go uh New York. I'm going to go Miami. >> Ah, great one. >> And um let's go Northeast. I love Boston. That's my three. Just to mix it up. >> We're already in New York. We're kind of already Northeast. >> Dude, now you're getting in hot water.

You don't tell Bostononians that New York and Boston are two. They're just very different cities. I know they're different cities, but you the region is the same. >> What's easier to get there? We do New York one night. >> Going up to Boston. >> They have some chia.

>> Okay. >> What? >> They're telling us to go to callers. Come on. You're talking too long.

>> I'm really not. >> It's the end of the week. >> It's fine. America loves it. Andrew is up in Jacksonville. Andrew, how can we help?

>> Um, my father is uh in bad health and he

has a vehicle loan. Um he he has not

driven in a few months and he is now confirmed that he's probably never going to drive again. >> I'm sorry, Andrew.

>> Thank you. Um he owes 168 on it.

>> Uh I've taken it to a few lots. CarMax

offered like nine 9,000. Uh my mother

who is in good health is a co-barorrower on it, but she has her own vehicle that's working fine. And so in situations like this, what do you do with this vehicle?

>> Well, I wonder what a Have you Kelly blueooked it? Because your CarMax and all those other places and mostly dealers, they'll try to buy it at wholesale. Um, >> yeah. >> What have you, Kelly blueooked it?

>> I have not. >> Okay, I would do that next. You're probably still going to be underwater for it. He probably will. Does he have um any other assets? What kind of money do your parents have?

Um, they're they're well off, I would say. I mean, I don't really know their financial situation, but >> Okay. So, I would retired. Um, he has a

really good life insurance policy.

>> Okay. >> Um, the medical team told us, you know, he has 3 to six months.

>> Oh my gosh, Andrew. I'm sorry.

>> Oh, >> I guess in this case, I would just choose the least amount of effort. Like at this point, you just don't want him your mom burning any calories of effort on something like, you know, with 3 to 6 months to go. For sure. >> If they've got cash. >> Yeah. So, I would just I mean, if they have 5 $6,000, I would just pay the difference and get rid of the car and just be done. Y >> got be done with it. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Um because because after he passes,

>> I mean, that debt will be still owed, right? Like it's going to have to true up with his estate and everything. Um so, you'll have to deal with it one way or the other. So, if they do have the cash, >> um, but I would go private sale. And again, Andrew, I would probably to Ken's point, put that maybe on you or one of your siblings to help sell.

>> Yeah, >> sure. >> Private party. Yeah. Um, and then Yeah, just take some of their cash and just do the difference. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Cuz again, I I this is all

like this is >> Yeah. Does he um But he has he has life insurance in place. How old is he?

76. >> 76. Okay. And your mom, are they do you

as their son and family, do you guys know? You said you don't really know their financial situation. Have you guys had any conversations? just I just know

with working with families after someone passes and dealing with the estate and dealing with passwords and I mean it's just there's a lot of information that happens and I just want to make sure you guys are as >> well informed just so that the grieving process um >> goes as you know simple as as possible without muddying with money and financial issues.

>> Right. Thank you for that. Well our ne so our next step is we have uh we have scheduled some time with an attorney next week. Okay. >> I do know that there is a trust, but we can't find dad's will. So, we're kind of

going through that process, but I know that his life insurance policy will pretty much take care of my mother and

everything for the remainder of her life. But, um, >> you know, I mean, like this, like again, this vehicle thing is kind of small small >> sure >> things, but it's a detail and I just didn't know what to do with it. >> Yep. Yep. So, yeah, that's what I would do. And if you guys can't find the will, if there has to be another one put in place, I would cuz just going through probate and everything, it just makes that that whole situation smoother. As much documentation as you guys can have.

Um, >> but I hate that this even has to be a conversation for you all. I I'm so sorry. >> I understand. But you know what?

It's uh I hope what I hope this conversation that we're having right now helps somebody else's listening. >> Yep. Amen. I appreciate that.

Oh, >> Andrew, you uh you're a strong young man. So sorry. I think I think at this stage it's u getting all the ducks lined up like we've been talking about and then you and family handle as much as that as you can so that you know quality of life is as good as it can be and let's celebrate and >> uh I I hate that you're going through this.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thanks for peace because he's at peace. >> That's good to know. Y >> that's good to know. Wow. Thank you for calling and sharing that.

Heat. Heat.

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Heat. Heat.

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All right, let's go to the debtree stage in the lobby and we've got uh Michael and Stacy joining us. Hi guys, how are you? >> Hey Ken. Hey Rachel. How are you >> doing? Well, >> where are you guys from? >> Maryland. We're we're from Calbert County, Maryland. Right outside Washington DC. >> Okay. Very nice. Right there inside the beltway. Is that okay? Very nice. Okay.

Well, tell us uh you're here to do debtree scream. So, give us the stats.

How much did you pay off?

>> We paid off $651,000.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> Whoa. >> In about seven years.

>> Wow. >> Okay. >> All right. And what was the range of income? >> Uh we started around $200,000. Um and

then um what was it?

>> We went up to 346. >> Went up to 346. Um and then when we paid off the house, >> we back down to 223.

>> Oh my gosh. So, the house was part of it. >> We had a feel. >> Yeah. You gave away the the punch line.

>> We figured it was that much money.

>> If you said you had $600,000 of credit card debt, I would I've heard that on the show, you know. Just kidding. I'm kidding. >> Um, okay. But the house, you guys, unbelievable. Is that all the house or was there any consumer debt in that number? >> So, we had a paid for rental. Oh, no.

I'm sorry. We didn't have a paid for rental. We had a rental for 220,000. We had student loans for 20,000.

>> Okay. Uh, credit card 11,000, second mortgage for 60,000. The home was 340,000. >> Okay. Yeah. But you got But half of it was Yeah. Everything else.

How incredible. And seven.

>> Dave normally says, "I'm looking at weird people, but I don't think you're weird. I actually think you guys look very, very well adjusted." >> Oh, he's weird. That's funny. Stacy's like nerd. Michael's a little weird.

>> I was the nerd. >> Yeah, for sure. Well, you look fantastic. Uh, so what do you guys do for a living? because this income this this is interesting. 200 to 346 back down to 223. What do you guys do?

>> Yeah. Um so I'm a retired cop of 27 years. Um I got an encore job so I had the pension coming in plus my encore job >> and Stacy was uh >> I was a VP of communications and marketing um for an association and uh

>> nice. >> So what sort of happened was um you know we had three incomes. So we had a pension coming in, we had my my encore job. I'm a right currently I still have it. I'm a fraud investigator with the federal government. >> Well, that's fun.

>> Yeah. And then um you know her job. So we had three jobs, three incomes coming in, but um once we paid off the house um

she got to quit her toxic job. So Stacy,

>> oh man, >> how long ago was that? >> Um I left my last day was May 6th.

>> Okay. So this is fresh. Yeah.

>> That's why you look like you're levitating. >> Very. I'm still not It feels odd like I

still haven't >> Yeah, you're debt free and toxic company free. That's a That's a double whammy.

>> That's a double win. >> Yeah. >> I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with myself. So, I just I just bought your book because I'm like, well, now I'm going to see what else I'm wired for.

>> I'll read I can tell you what happened seven years ago that caused you guys to think, we want to pay all of this off plus the house, which is crazy.

>> I I literally was laying in bed one night and um like we make all this money. where is it all going? You know, and we're in debt. Um, what's going to happen to us in retirement? Um, and I literally was having like heart palpitations. >> And I I got on I got on the internet like how to get out of debt and guess whose face shows up as your dad. Papa Dave. >> That's right. Papa Dave showed up from the Google and winning the algorithms.

He's winning the algorithm.

>> So, he was yelling at somebody about, you know, having a a car. You know, I like the old Dave when he's yelling at people. But anyways, he's nice now. But you should be sitting next to him when he does it.

>> A lot of fun. Um >> Oh, you started watching like YouTube clips. Is that what or just >> got hooked on YouTube. >> Okay.

>> Um and then uh so I had a long commute to work. I worked in Baltimore from, you know, Calary County to Baltimore was like an hour and 15 minutes >> and I did that for, you know, quite a long time. >> By the way, that's literally the highway to hell. Can we agree?

That that area is just >> I mean, it's it's not, you know, it's not my favorite area. Right. I wasn't a cop. Well, that's a whole another story, but that commute.

>> Yeah, you have a different perspective on that statement. >> Listen, I could tell you stories, but it's going I'm going to go past the nine minutes, so >> keep going. >> Yeah. But I mean, during that during that drive, I was introduced to the podcast.

for to work and from work.

>> Oh wow. >> Oh my gosh. >> And that got you fired up. >> And that was seven years ago. So yeah, we're talking like like 2018ish. Do you

>> So, do you come home and tell Stacy about this guy who's yelling at people?

And Stacy, what was your reaction to this? >> Um, >> he kind of got into it before I did. He kind of had to convince me. But, um, cuz I was like, "Oh, who is this?" And what is this?

What? You know, >> but the more he started listening to it, I was like, "Oh god, this makes sense, right?" Like, "This really makes sense." And so, I kind of got on board. So, he was the instigator.

>> Yeah. So what do you tell people from your journey is the key to getting out of debt? >> You know um you know people come up and say you know the budget yes the budget is important and yes you know lifestyle changes and sacrifice is important but um one key thing I think is like people say oh obsession you're obsessed with this. It's a obsession is not a bad thing as long as you don't put it before God and your family.

You can get obsessed and focused on something to get it done. like maybe steps one, two, and three was like, you know, our my hair was on fire. >> Oh, that hold on. That might be a bad analogy.

Me and Dave have a lot of comment in there. But um steps one, two, and three like super focused, super conscious concentrated on, but steps four, five, and six, it's more like a like a long distance run, >> you know, and finally it's over, you know, this marathon's over. >> Okay. So, how many years was paying off the house?

>> and then you went into the house. So how long how long was that? What was the journey? >> Honestly we got we got into we got rid of the consumer debt fairly quickly like 18 months or something like that you know >> and then um the rest of it was all house.

>> Okay. So about the last 5 years or so was just thrown and what and how did you guys do it because people ask this a lot >> because people do it different ways. Did you guys do a specific, you know, extra mortgage payments like a goal per year or per month? Like what did that look like?

money, like Dave says, you have extra money coming in, throw it at the house, throw it at the house. So, any overtime money and also remember I got another job with the pension coming in. We didn't even touch the pension. >> We just whatever check came in at the beginning of the month, it just went straight to the house.

Straight to the house. Extra principal, extra. Yeah, that's nice. >> We took our foot off the gas.

I mean, baby steps four, five, and six. We took our foot off the gas. We went to like vacation and stuff like that. >> Yep.

Which you should do a little bit, which is great. Yes. >> Okay. And uh daughter over here.

Yes. >> How old is she? >> She is 14. >> 14. Yes. Come on. Come on. You're beautiful. >> I know. >> Beautiful. Taller than me. >> Who is this? This is >> I'm also wearing >> Quinn. Quinn. >> Quinn. Okay. >> How old is Quinn? >> Quinn's 14 years old.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Okay. She doesn't have a mic, so it's going to be hard, but I'll have your parents. What? What was the process?

>> What was >> having having a having a teenager in the house? >> How did all that work? Was all that >> How did the family dynamic work?

>> She was really kind of on board. I mean, she's still a teen, right? She still loves shopping and everything, but we all kind of gave up a little bit and sacrificed a little and um she definitely did her fair share of sacrificing >> clothing. Understood the budget.

>> Yes. >> Nails and y'all talked about it. It was open and you as a as a family this was the goal and as a family we were doing this >> and it was easier to talk about like >> giving her the perspective of this is why it's going to be worth it.

>> We are baby step millionaires, multi-millionaires now. So congratulations on that. Well, you set a great legacy and a great example for Quinn and hopefully um she'll find a debtree guy.

>> Oh, she already knows. Yeah.

>> I'm with you. I'm with you, Dad. I I feel you, man. I got it. All right.

Well, that is so cool. Well, you guys ready? Is Is she like the cool teenager?

I've got a 16-year-old. Are you going to really scream here or is this going to be cool? Quinn, >> they're asking if you're going to scream or you'd be too cool to scream.

>> Oh, I'm going to scream. Quinn, >> I love it. Okay. >> You love a dedicated team. >> Let's do it. So, we've got Michael, Stacy, and Quinn in the Annapolis uh

Beltway area of Maryland. paid off $651,000 over 7 years making from 200 up to 346

back down to 223 and they are free.

Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> Three 2 1 >> We're debtree.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Well done.

Very nice. She joined in.

>> So great. >> How fun. >> Oh my gosh. That's a lot of money. a lot

of money. >> And that's a long time. That's that's some perseverance right there. Yes.

>> And the obsession is what you got to do.

You got to stay focused. >> So great. >> Oh, and it's what they did. Incredible family. Absolutely incredible.

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Our [Music]

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scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17:17.

A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity.

And our quote of the day, I think, was hijacked by Rachel Cruz, a well-known Swifty.

This is from her boyfriend, Travis Kelce. >> Oh, from Trav, >> one of the greatest tight ends of all time. Got to give him some love. He's not just her boyfriend.

>> Uh, if you don't care about the guy next to you, he says, one, you're a terrible

teammate. Teammate, actually. Two, you're never going to win.

There we go. >> Travis, way to go. >> Pretty uh life changing.

>> Thanks, Travis. Maybe Travis should stick to football and not quotes. I don't know. But uh it's good. There's some There's a nugget of truth there.

>> Melanie from Connecticut is joining us.

Melanie, how can we help?

>> Hi. How are you?

>> We're doing well. What's going on with you today? >> Good. Good. So, um I have a concern. Um

I have a situation I've been dealing with for a few years now.

uh and I'm at a point uh where I don't

know I don't think I'm okay with it continuing and I think it will continue and the basics of it is

um you know how can I get my husband to

get our older son to pay for his own bill. >> How old is your son? >> He just he just turned 21. Um I've been

asking my husband to you know get him to pay for his own bills. nothing else. His own bill since he was 18. He's fully he's been fully employed since he was 16. Um, you know, doesn't really manage

his money very well, gets into unnecessary debt. Um, you know, has been

having trouble keeping a job, will not

do, you know, my husband and I both have a full-time and then do part-time gigs.

Um, and he just cannot handle that. He's

not a student. And so because the bills

are not under his name when he doesn't have a job or he's undermployed

um it doesn't face him because they're under our name. >> What bills what bills does he have?

>> Car insurance and cell phone.

>> Does he live with you all?

>> He does. >> Okay. >> And he's been he's been full-time. So he starts at 16. I I feel like it's

relevant. So give me a little latitude here. Why is he full-time work at 16 and

not in high school?

>> No, no, no, no. He was he had his part-time job when he was 16. He graduated and has started fulltime.

>> Because that sounds responsible. I mean, you know what I mean? Like the trajectory sounds good. >> What kind of work has he been doing?

>> Um, he started with, you know, like coffee shops, then mechanic work. That

part is okay. The issue I find is that

because the bills are now under his names, the actual papers that coming under his name, he doesn't have the will

or willingness or need to pay them. And

my husband, you know, ask him to pay it.

I remind him, we fight about it. Nothing happens. >> All right. So, let me ask you this. If they're in his name, if he did not pay a cell phone bill, then they would turn the cell service off. Yes.

>> Correct. >> So, why don't we just let that happen?

because it's one of those family plans.

Um, and so it affects me,

>> right? But but can we not get him on his own? Like he doesn't he's not on the family plan. He's on his own plan. He's 21. First of all, he shouldn't be living at home anymore. And I know what's going on here. This is this is a marriage issue because your your husband is just not willing to make this kid >> What's your husband's reasons?

What does he say?

>> You know what? I I have a lot of compassion for my husband. Um we've took a trip to his home country a few years back and I know where he's he comes

from. You know, he comes from a lot of need and poverty and um you know, part

of it I think it has made him the man he is. He's a lovely man, hard worker.

>> He just wants to take care of his family because he's able to now. And so there's Yeah. So yeah, that makes sense. So I think realizing >> Yeah. And I will say, Melanie, I'll give you like a little bit of just like breathing room. And he's 21. If he was

30, you know what I mean? Like like from an age perspective, he's young. He's 21.

>> I agree. >> He doesn't have his feet up under him from a from a job standpoint. He didn't go to school. Is that right? No degree, which is fine. I just clarifying.

So, so we need to find So, so as parents, and I don't have a 21-year-old, so I will say that >> as parents, I would think stepping in and helping him find and helping him

find himself, learning what am I good at? a lot of Ken's material is so good at this, but being an assistant to help him long-term figure out a career path that's going to help him instead of him jumping from coffee shop to coffee shop.

Let's actually sit down and create a game plan together so he has some stability and direction and then once

that happens, that's good for him from a dignity standpoint and then we're going to fly and we're going to have to learn how to be an adult, right? But um I don't know. I I >> Is he racking up debt with credit cards or anything like that?

Nothing crazy. The biggest thing that he has is his car payment, which is pretty

high. So, a little bit of backstory. Uh both of our kids, we gave them a car when they were 16, a beat up car. Like, I don't think we spend more than $1,000 on their car. >> Sure. >> Uh for them to be able to do the part-time jobs, the school, all that stuff. >> And so, he wanted to buy the flash card.

And I I said no. I said absolutely not.

My husband was going to go sign for it.

I said no. And so then he still went on

and did it when he was about 19. And my

husband said, "I so because he was so young, the car insurance was going to be up to the roof." And my husband kind of like agreed to put him under our car

insurance so it would be a lower rate >> and you know that's fine for a little

while until he gets some, you know, credit X. But he hasn't your name. No, I

get I think >> y'all need some time frames. Y'all need to put some a plan in place. This is just floating around.

>> I agree. But but you cannot put a plan

in place if you guys aren't in agreement on the plan. And the fundamentals of this plan are you're very nice. He seems

like a very good man, but you guys are not operating from the same system on

this situation with this kid, your kid.

So you you have one view. I think it needs to be this. I think he needs to be doing this. Your husband has a completely different view and it's understandable.

Rachel wrote a great bestselling book. I'm looking at it right now. Know yourself, Know Your Money. In fact, I'm going to give you Rachel's book because I actually want both of you to read this.

I think it is actually one of a it's a fundamental book for for couples who aren't on the same page about money. Before you get on the same page, you got to be able to understand each other.

>> You can she wrote a book on it. I'm gonna give you the book. I'll let her speak to it. But actually, I'll I'll segue to Rachel, but here's what I'm getting at. >> This is a marriage problem.

>> In other words, we're just not communicating well and aligned in this particular part of marriage, which is our 21-year-old son. I think getting

with a professional therapist where it's safe, everybody's psychologically safe, and we can get to the root of this so that you understand your husband and have and you do you have compassion for him, but you need to understand. And then he needs to understand how you feel. Yeah. >> And then let a professional who's unbiased walk you through where the boundaries need to be here.

And then and only then Rachel do I think we we establish a plan. >> Yeah. And I think you know sitting down and you guys figuring out what's the end goal and my assumption is I could be wrong is that we want our son to be successful in life, right? Be on his own.

>> And I think what Rachel said is so smart. I want to applaud you because I think it's a mix between total tough love and total grace.

>> The husband is is all grace >> and mercy. And you're like, uh, >> get him out. He's working at 16, >> right? He needs to pay his insurance at 19.

And And so I think there is a balance there, Rachel. >> Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.

But yeah, you and your husband getting on that same page. And I think your hearts are both in a good spot. But remember, we wanting to help him, not harm him is the goal. And if you go your husband's route all the way, I think that's more harm than good.

>> So hang on the line. Kelly's going to get you a copy of Rachel's number one bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Each of you read it, and I'd share it with your son.

Figure this thing out. Then we're all on the same page as a family.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show except you get to be a part of it.

>> Part of what, George? >> The The Ramsay Show Live. Ken, that's what I'm telling them about. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The windy city. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish. Oh, >> okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. >> George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? >> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? It >> It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know. Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago?

>> What is happening? Can I can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available, so get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

>> Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? >> Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George. It's >> how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. Okay, see you on the road, John.

---

## 273. You Get To Decide Your Next Financial Step | April 20, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside my friend, partner in crime today to help you. She is Jade Warshaw. The phone number is88255225.88255225.

Let's go to Taylor who starts us off in Miami, Florida. Taylor, how can we help today? >> Hey, thank you all so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Um, >> I just got married last month and I, my

husband and I both are struggling to combine our finances because of all of the moving parts and we're looking for advice from y'all. >> What do you mean by all of the moving parts? >> Okay. So, one issue I have is I'm a contingent worker.

So, some weeks with the job that I have, I only bill for a 4-day week and some days I bill for a 7-day week, which means my base income a month could be $4,400 or it could be $7,600.

>> Yes, it's irregular, but usually the base amount I make is 4,400 and then the most I can make is 7,600 in a month.

>> What about him?

>> Um he is uh part-time for the school

system. He makes 1,700 a month.

>> Okay, that's it. Okay, >> so let's talk about why he's only part-time. Well, he has a rental portfolio and he manages um right now four different rental properties. >> What's that bring in?

>> So, one of the houses it's one of the houses has just been built and he roughly built it for 160K and he's planning on selling this one for 240K.

Um the other two, the cash flow between the two of them, they're only paying for themselves right now. Okay, so that takes us back to Ken's initial question and my initial

concern, which is still working part-time. The truth is he's still only profiting 1,700 a month. Um, we'll get back to that in a minute. I want to answer your first question about getting everything on the same page.

So, what I would do, um, it's not as complex as you think. You need one you need one joint checking account that you're both paid into and then you need one joint savings account or high yield savings account that you're going to place your savings in.

That sort of thing. So for now just those two accounts and what I would do is I would open up every dollar and I would budget uh for your minimum month.

So for you, I would budget the 4,400.

For him, the 1,700. And I would start with that as your kind of operating amount of money. And as you get more money, you just add it onto the budget.

As it comes in, you increase it. And now suddenly you might decide, oh, well, instead of spending, you know, $600 on groceries, now we can add a little bit more to that. Or before we didn't have, you know, money to do anything entertaining, now we can add that back to the budget, right? And as money flows in, you can increase line items or you can add line items.

or if you have any debt, obviously the extra money would go towards your smallest debt.

>> Okay. Um we are we are debtree. Both of our vehicles are paid off. We don't have any credit card debt. Um we have a savings established together. Um we got about between three and $4,000 in gifts

from the wedding alone. And we did not take a honeymoon. Would you think that we could or do you think that money should go into savings? >> I think you need to take a honeymoon.

>> Okay. Yeah, I think that's great. Is the You said you have savings plus the money from the wedding. Is it just the 4,000 or there's more on top of that?

>> No, I have um we have like a little like a I guess you'd call like an emergency account with 2,000 in it together.

>> Okay. So, it's 6,000 total.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. So, what I would do is I mean I would probably plan something modest because I mean you only have 6,000. And then I would try if if I were if I were you, I would probably try to keep half of this aside as I'm starting to build the three to six months of expenses. And then I do half for the honeymoon >> and just keep it modest.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. What's your what is your going to be your margin now that you know we've walked through we're just operating off of $6,100. That's his 1,700 and your 4,400. How much margin do you guys have after all the bills are paid?

>> Meaning how much is left over after all the bills paid over between $8 $900 a

month. >> Okay. What's What's If you have no debt, where's all that money going?

>> Well, it up and we just got married last

month. It paid for the wedding >> and now we're just now back to a spot where um you know, we paid for it. So,

>> Got it. So, what will >> now back to a spot where we're breaking even because we just paid all that stuff off. Honestly, I got in an uncomfortable position paying for all of that and now I'm like, I can call now.

>> Okay, gotcha. Well, again, you know, as he increases his income, you know, or certainly sees more value out of that, you know, the uh the managing the rentals, um you guys are in a decent spot for you to win. And the good news is you have no debt. So, you know, just walking these baby steps out, which sounds like you're in baby step three, >> which is to get a fully funded emergency fund >> of three to six months, months, three to

six months of expenses as my brain falls

apart. >> I like that. Yeah. What's the plan for you guys' residents? Are you renting now or what's up?

>> No, I I purchased a house before I met him. Um, and that's the house we're living in now. >> So, you guys have four properties total?

>> Well, really we have more than that if you include his portfolio. He had he acquired all of his rentals and he has like a couple of lots that he he

purchased for um >> so really strong. That's a lot of debt.

A lot of debt. Well, in mortgage and in

in in >> how much mortgage debt? How much home mortgage debt do you have combined? Including all his portfolio >> including all the um 60 plus

>> I'm counting it right now. Okay.

>> I have six. There's 60K on one of the rentals. There's 120 on another.

>> Okay. >> And there's 260 on the house that we live in now. >> Okay. >> The other things are paid off. >> Okay. Cuz when I heard managing rentals, at first I thought this was just what he did for somebody else.

>> No, no, no. He he owns >> he's carrying this debt.

>> Yeah, >> he owns them. But he's positive in equity on all of them.

>> Understood. But they're not and they're not bringing in any He's breaking even on rents. I'm just wondering about that.

>> He's charging too little. He's charging too little for rent every month. He's done got close with the tenants that he has. And >> I'll be honest with you, this is just me. Um, I'm not I think there's some

things you've done really well. If I were in your shoes, you guys are newly married. There's part of me I would love

cuz you said he's equity positive in all of them. I would love if you sold some of these in order to pay off your personal residence because if you did that, you guys would be smoking like

unstoppable. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Think about that. What's your >> sell all of them? >> Yeah. But what's your mortgage every month? My mortgage is 1,600, but I pay $2,000 because I add extra $400 to principal every month. All right? >> And that's included in my in my uh like

when I told you I still have $8 to $900 left over every month. That's already after calculating that. >> So, it'd be 2,000 total.

>> Correct. >> I love that for you guys because if you turned around and took that money, how old did you say you were?

>> I'm 27.

>> Oh my gosh. >> She's got the investment calculator out.

Taylor, >> I'm I'm loving this because this is not even including like your normal 15%. I'm

just saying if you took that money that you have now, you paid off the mortgage and you said, "We're going to take that extra $2,000. We're going to invest it.

Uh we're going to invest it for a long period of time. Let me add this in here.

I'm going to tell you what this number is just based on that." And it is, drum

roll please, you're going to have $17 million.

>> Yeah. Taylor Do that from age 27 to age

67. You have nothing in there now. You contribute $2,000 a month. Average annualized rate of return 10 to 11% 17

million. Do the math.

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lender.

Okay. Hey, I I want to make sure that we

we lock in on the number you just threw.

>> Yeah. >> At that last caller because um >> you don't just say 17 million and speed past it like you didn't just say what you just said. >> No. And I and I and and as we were talking about this, you know, the reason that number is so high is >> Well, number one, the time in the market. >> Yeah. >> Like nothing beats time in the market.

The fact that they would be starting in their 20s, in their case, 27 years old.

That's why it's so important, guys, when we when we teach this stuff. If you can get it, if you can teach it to your kids, your friends kids, your grandma, like teach it because the longer the younger you are when you start this, that compounding interest, man, it's it's a what is it? The eighth wonder of the world. Is that what they used to say? >> I uh I think that's what it is called.

>> Is that right? Eighth wonder. And and it's true because for them, yeah, age 27, age 67. Not saying that they have to

work until they're 67 because they're going to be millionaires obviously well into their 40s, right? Um, but the point here is it doesn't take much. Can we talk a lot? A lot of times people think this is the sell the car show, right?

Because we're always telling people to sell their cars. But in this case, $2,000 is what is setting them free. I don't even know if that's 15% of their income.

I don't know how, you know, how much they're going to make over the course of their life. All I know is today if they paid off their house, which they had the money to do, to have that $2,000 of margin and how powerful that is. And all

of you who are watching right now need to think about that because if it's not $2,000, maybe for you it's 1,500. Maybe for you it's 500. Go home today. This is

everybody's homework. All right? >> Pull out an investment calculator. Go to ramseyolutions.com.

Pull out an investment calculator and plug in the numbers. It's going to ask your current age. So if you're 47, I'm 42. I'll put 42 in there.

And then when do you want to retire? I'll put 62. And then start playing around with the numbers. And at the bottom where it says, what do you think your annual return will be?

I want you to put 10 to 11%. Because that's what you should be making in the stock market. Ken, if your mutual funds are not producing at least that, which of course over the past four years it's been bananas.

annualized rate of return, which means if we take all the years and take the average of them, it's between 10 to 11%.

So, you can say, "Oh, Jade, what about 911? What about 2008 and 9, Jade? What about now? Right? That's fine. Yes, it does dip and do all of this, but it does it as it ticks up. It does it like this.

So, we're always going up. So, I want you to do that. And if you're if you're invested now, go and look and see, oh my gosh, what are what have my returns been? Cuz if you're somewhere in the five and six and 7%, you're not invested in in in the top in the tops 10, Ken.

You need to be you need to be doing better than that. So, that's just a little a little something something. And here's what we're going to do to help with the homework that teacher Jay just threw out to everybody. We're going to put a link to the investment calculator that she's got up on her computer right now at ramseyolutions.com.

We'll put the link in the show notes. Uh Kelly the producer is going to do that because she's amazing as well. So, uh we got a homework assignment and we already have the cheat sheet for it. >> I know.

Um, when you do what Jay tells you to do, you're going to really have a on the

ground experience with vision casting, you will >> Oh, so good. >> That's what I mean. When you can see into the future and what what she's going to have you do is plug in numbers and see what is actually possible. But

the possibility has power because it

becomes a number and you can see it in the future with just consistent activity. So what's going to happen is as a result of your homework assignment for these fine folks >> is they're going to now start to visualize >> and set a vision for their future.

>> Can you I I know you're ready to preach on this because what what happens with me started I'll take an offering. What happens when there's no vision?

>> People perish. And what that means that's straight out of scripture and what that means is their soul. the spirit in all of us >> uh truly begins to seep out of your body. >> Um and and you know without getting any more of that. And so that's why it's so huge. By the way, while we're at it, there needs to be a vision for your marriage. There needs to be a vision for your children. There needs to be a vision for your professional life. There needs to be a vision for your health.

>> Yes. >> I mean, you will perish. And and what

that means is is that you are slowly, which we all are. But this idea of never having a vision and something that I'm looking forward to is what kills people

>> long before they die.

>> Which is what Edgar Allen Poe said to put a bow on it. >> Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.

>> Sorry, I had to, you know, I'm now pulling old references. I love it. But that's the idea. That's what we're talking about. All right, let's get to Bianca who joins us now in Las Vegas.

Bianca, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good afternoon. So, I have a question. Um, my dad is selling his

house that I'm currently living living in. And, um, we're looking at me, my

sister, and him getting $100,000

100,000 each from the house. And I have

three kids. I have two twins that are eight months. And then I have a four-year-old. I had to leave the father and my kids when my twins were five

months. So, as a stay-at-home mom, I'm

trying to get back on my feet and I'm trying to see what should I do with these $100,000 to get started.

>> Okay. >> Wow. >> Well, can you give us a little detail of what are the money problems you're dealing with? In other words, you know, we want to know what your debt is. Uh we want to start there so we can kind of help you walk through what you should do with the 100K. So, give us a picture.

Okay, so I have some school that I have to pay off that is $12,000. And then my

debt for credit cards and stuff is 3,000. And then I did buy a mentorship

to get started in my business. Um that I

have to pay off as well. >> How much?

>> Um 3,000.

>> Okay. So 12,000 for the school, 3,000

debt of credit cards, and then my mentorship, 3,000.

>> So you got $18,000 of debt. Um the the

100,000 is that going to be the only money to your name, or do you already have some money saved up?

>> No, I have nothing. I was a stay-at-home mom um the whole time.

>> How soon do you get the money?

>> Um as soon as house sells. And um

they're taking pictures next week. Okay.

>> So, um, and then also too, um, cuz I'm

getting into like the hair business and like content and all that, I do want a room for the house that I'm going to

rent cuz I'm think I'm debating whether doing a twobedroom and all of us sleeping in one bedroom and then having one room to have all my things um to

travel and stuff as a traveling hair stylist. Um, >> interesting. >> So, I'm >> Okay. >> Exactly. And so I'm just debating whether I should So the houses here are like 1,600 for two bedrooms and for

three bedrooms is 2,000 >> to rent the room out. Is that that's the profit on renting the room out?

>> No. Um for renting a house.

>> That's just her cost. Rental cost.

>> Got you. >> So are you generating any revenue uh any income at all right now as a hairdresser?

Um, currently I'm just practicing

my um because it's a hair bridal business. So, um I'm still learning

which I did hair for 14 years, but since I did color, it's a way different department. So, I'm like learning a lot of stuff. Got it. >> And I every >> Well, here's why I'm asking. Here's why I'm asking. How are you surviving right now? That's what I'm trying to get. >> My mom. My mom. She's the one helping me right now. >> Okay. So, you're not going into debt.

>> Oh, and then I do have child support, too, that I'm getting $1,800.

>> Okay. So, we have $1,800 a month coming in and mom is helping you out and you're not going into debt for living expenses is what I'm trying to get at.

>> No. >> Okay, great. >> No. Um, >> that's good. That's good. >> Okay. So, the your big question is I'm

getting $100,000. We don't know when you're getting that. Uh, we hope within 3 to four months. the house hasn't even gone on the market yet and then there's, you know, time to get that. So, let's just say to be safe, we're looking at four to five months at the earliest that you're getting this money. Is that fair?

>> Yes, that's what I'm thinking, too.

>> Okay. And so, when we get the 100,000, we want to clear the debt and then we set you up for the next level. So, here's what we're here's what we got going on. Um, we got to do a commercial break and we want to be able to help you. And so, hang on the line, Bianca.

When we come back, Jay's going to walk you through every penny of this $100,000

and how it can set you up for financial success. So, that's the good news.

You're going to be okay. Hang on the line. We'll be back to take care of you.

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All right, we are on the line with Bianca. Bianca is uh going through a

divorce, all the things, uh separating from the father of her kids, and she's getting $100,000 from the sale of the home. And uh so we're bringing her back cuz we got to walk through this. She's got $18,000 in debt. And uh so Jade, let's jump in

here because last we talked to her, she's trying to find a place that in that $1,600 a month range for rent.

>> Um and so walk her through here. What would she do with this 100,000? How does she get on stable feet with this money?

>> Yeah. So the $100,000 I would use that to to walk the baby steps. So the first thing you're doing, you're paying off the 18,000 of debt. Okay.

So that's going to leave you with a 78 around 80 left. And then from there on, you're going to estimate, you're going to do some research here. You're going to say, "Okay, what's it going to cost to rent in the area? I think you quoted around $1,600 a month." Then you're going to estimate food, transportation, all of these things.

And you're going to create a budget. Right now, it's kind of a a makebelieve budget, but you're going to go, "Okay, what's my cost of living? Is it somewhere around 3,000, maybe $4,000 a month?" And then you're going to take that and you're going to multiply that by six, and you're going to put aside another $18 to $20,000 as a six-month emergency fund. So, we've already spent 40,000 of this money and now we've got 60,000 left.

Now, here's my challenge to you.

until it's gone. >> I agree. >> That is not a plan. I would take this money. I would tuck it away in a high yield savings account under lock and key. This is where you need somebody to hold you accountable. >> Uh you're not married right now, but you need a really good friend. Mhm.

>> Somebody who you're willing to give access to your life in the way of I know where this money is. I know what you've told me. Maybe I get an alert to my phone if you start spending this money.

Something like that to where this money can just hide there until you're ready to purchase a house. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

>> I just don't want to spend everything on rent. >> I don't want to. >> You're not going to spend any of it on >> I have a plan for that, Bianca. So, let me ask a quick question. When you say traveling hairdresser, does that just simply mean you go to the clients? Is that what that means? Forgive my ignorance. >> Yes. Yes. So, in the bridal industry, you go to the venue and do their hair there or you travel to a salon that I

have where I do daily rental. Okay.

>> But I just want to have a room to do content cuz nowadays everything is content, you know. >> Okay. And I thought I heard that. So, that means you're doing some social media stuff, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay, let me ask you a question. Are you making any income off of that content?

>> So, I do practice every weekend on somebody and they tip me like I mean for

the month I get like 100 150 maybe on

like um >> but is that is that making money on the content you're posting? That's that's I'm asking. You said content I'm getting somewhere with this. >> You said I want to make my content work.

Well, content doesn't work >> unless it's generating revenue. So, are you generating any revenue?

>> No, I literally just started two weeks ago.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Can I Can I just be a coach for a second for you? >> Uhhuh. Yes. >> Um, there's an old phrase. It's on some cheesy motivational poster somewhere that says when you chase two rabbits, you lose both of them. And I just wonder, and I'm not saying that this is chasing two rabbits, but I wonder if you shouldn't be putting all of your energy into doing people's hair. And then we get to a point where, to your point, I'm

not spending any of the money. Jade's got it under lock and key, and I keep it under lock and key, and I'm able to pay for my rent, buy my own job. I can pay

for groceries through my own job. I don't need mom to support me. And I just wonder if that's not the best use of your time.

>> Well, here is my my work, my business.

>> I understand, but you have to put time into all the social media stuff. So, again, you don't have to prove this to me. I'm just telling you, you don't you don't have to prove anything to me. >> Uh I'm not being cynical. I'm just >> There's two sides of it. Uh and I want to clarify this. I think this is going to help you, Bianca. If you

if you are already doing someone's hair that day for money and it's easy for you to film it, it's not taking a lot of time on your day. Yeah, it makes sense to post it online. From there, your revenue can be more so about um

advertising and getting people in the air because you know people use social media like Google now. So that's a great advertising venue. I think to Ken's point, it would be a while before you're generating any sort of revenue from platforms. If is that what you're going is that what you're going for? >> Yeah. >> Yes. So, the content is not for me to be like a content creator. It's just to advertise myself. >> Yeah. And again, I'm only raising it.

>> Put myself out there. >> Got it. And I love that, Bianca. That's why I'm saying I didn't want you to hear cynicism from me. More just focus, utter

focus right now so that we're bringing in as much money as possible because you're a single mama, mama bear that's got to take care of of some very important people. And so, that's just me saying, think about that right now.

Every ounce of time you have for work needs to be generating money. That's all. >> How many hours a week are you working currently? Because what I'm trying to get out, I'm just going to be honest with you. You got four kids.

>> Three. >> Three. >> Three boys. >> Three boys. And you've you're going to have a $1,600 rent. Cuz remember the plan is to not touch this money. So my my my question for you is how many hours

are you working a week at this or where do you think it will start? And if it's at a part-time level, what will you do with the other time to bring in money?

I'm just throwing some questions out there for you to be thinking about.

>> So, my goal is to work Friday, Saturday,

and Sunday and just do it full-time.

Right now, um I'm just doing a couple of color clients to like be able to help me um pay the bills and my mom too. But um

I just basically Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, which are the busiest days to work because when when I get to the point where my um business will be successful, I can make up to like a,000 to 1,500 a week.

>> But what will you do on the days that aren't Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

What will you do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? >> Well, I my my plan was to stay with my

kids because it pays more. it costs more

to have them um in daycare or somebody

watch them. >> And that's why my goal is Monday to Thursday stay with them and then Friday, Saturday, and Sunday um work those days.

>> Can can mama not watch them while you're out working?

>> My mom? >> Yeah, your mom. >> My Yes, my mom works. I literally have nobody to watch them right now. That's that's why I chose to go. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, here's what I just want to

caution you. I want you to do whatever you can not to siphon this money slowly,

>> okay? >> And because what can happen is you can have a distorted view of reality of how well you're doing.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz when the bills are paid and everything seems fine, it makes you feel like everything's good. But if your hair business is not bringing in the money that you really need to survive, you could look up and be in a world of of pain in about a year or so from now.

>> That's right. >> So, just just caution that. I think you're thinking through this. I want you to do a a deeper level of thinking on the Monday through Thursday deal and see if there's anything you can find because don't automatically assume you can't find work that can pay for daycare.

I don't want you to automatically make that assumption. >> Yeah. And and to that point, I'm going to throw it out there. Maybe the best move for you right now is to go work for an established salon that needs somebody cutting hair and you're not the one trying to find clients.

You got enough to deal with right now as you're going through a very traumatic time. You know, you need time to heal. So, I would be considering if I could go make really good money or as much money as you possibly can given your time limitations for a salon >> where they're generating customers for you or however that works. I'm I'm over my skis here on this particular topic.

I should be letting you talk about the business part, but I think if you could get somebody else to pay you is my point. >> Agree. >> Until you get established and then we find, okay, I'm going to start doing a couple keep my hair color clients >> on, you know, maybe I do a Monday night, you know, the boys are in bed at 8, maybe I do a couple, you know, I do one late night color. Yeah.

>> And you begin to build that way. And I think this is the mindset you're going to have to have. But here, Jade, well, >> you need to do everything in your mind. you.

I need to almost trick your mind that that $40,000 is someone else's and you just cannot touch it unless there's some crazy insane emergency, which of course you've got to. Yep. >> But it's truly emergency money only. And I think if you do that, you will find a way.

And there's no way, Bianca, that Jade and I would bet against a single mama. >> No way. >> Like there's zero chance, >> right? I want you to hear that.

Like there's no stopping you. I wouldn't get in front of you if my life depended on it to take care of those three boys. So, I want you to hear that you got this. We believe in you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. But get after it like your life depends on it.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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buying or selling a home is a big deal.

You didn't need me to tell you that. It's just such a huge, huge deal. The emotion, the money that's involved here.

And uh the reality is all these deferring headlines.

Uh there's clickbait on social media.

Somebody always trying to tell you about the latest things, but we want you to know we're here minding the store. What is what are the real trends? What are home prices at right now? What what are we seeing with the inventory? Uh what is the rate on the average 15-year fixed rate? All of those things. We've got that for you so that you can trust the information. And uh you can get that, by the way, by going to ramiesolutions.com/market.

That's ramiesolutions.com/market or we have the link in the show notes.

All right, let's go to Nick in Witchah, Kansas. Nick, how can we help you today?

>> Hey guys, uh, thanks for taking my call.

It's an honor to be talking to you all. >> You, too. What's going on? >> So, basically, uh, so basically, um, my wife and I bought this house about a year and a half ago, um, with two incomes.

Uh, we had planned for two incomes for quite some time, and, uh, the Lord blessed us with our first daughter. Um, and so we kind of uh switched paths. Uh, so my wife is a stay-at-home mom. Um, because we'd like to expand our family a little bit further.

Um, but we know that uh now this house is a little bit more than we could chew. Um, so we're looking for uh other options. Um, and one thing that we're looking at is uh some land um that we would like to buy and and then build a house on. Um, so I called the bank up and they said, "Hey, uh, you should take out a heliloc to buy the land and then get a construction loan." and I said, "Heelock, I don't know what what would Dave say." So, that's why I'm kind of calling in today.

How how much are you uh you know, you're running short on money? Give us that breakdown.

>> Yeah. So, uh currently, um with our mortgage and everything, uh unfortunately, uh we we uh

got a 30-year loan. Um, and so it's 40%

of our take-home pay right now, which is how much? >> Which is a lot more than 25%. Take home pay is about 65 grand.

>> So take home is 65. And what is the actual amount of the mortgage right now?

>> So the mortgage is a little over 1,800

bucks, but we put extra on because we wanted to pay it off uh earlier than 30 years. >> Okay. Now we're paying about >> I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, well, knowing what we know now, the 1,800 is too much, right? It's too much for you guys.

>> So, as we start thinking about what we're doing now and you're thinking about a house with land, what is the number you need to be at? If you could wave a wand and change your mortgage payment to the right percentage, what would it be? A 25 at max.

>> Um, so 25% would actually be about

$1,500. Um what we the minimum payment

right now is $ 1,800, but we actually pay more than that um to make it not a 30-year loan. Uh that's why it's at 40%.

So it's actually about $2,400 instead.

>> You said you take home 65,000. That's around 5,400 a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you said you're trying to get the more 25% is about 13,300.

So, I I wouldn't I just want to I just

want to make sure we're we're on the same numbers cuz you're quoting different numbers than I have on my paper. So, I just want to make sure you're off by about $300 on a lot of what you're saying, which >> is not a lot, but it is a lot. You see what I'm saying? So, I just I want I just want to make sure I'm It's fine that you're off.

I just wanted to make sure we're tracking together. So, you've been paying extra on the $1,800 mortgage.

>> Yes. >> Got it. Okay. Now we can move forward,

keep going. So the plan is absolutely somebody told you to take out a heliloc.

You're it rose your hackles to buy to

buy the land. >> Yeah. >> And but I first of all, you know our answer to that, but I beyond our principal answer on that. I I just don't understand why.

Well, I do. They're trying to sell you a product. >> Yeah. Don't do it.

Um, but you should be able to do the lot and the house all together in one construction loan and it needs to be, you know, uh, within reason for you. So, can you do that?

where you need to come in at at what your monthly mortgage is?

>> Yes. Yes, I think so. So, the the lot is about 65 grand and we put about 150 um

into a house on it. And so, uh, with the equity we have in our home now, that would bring us at a mortgage of about $150. Um, maybe a little bit less. So,

that would, uh, our monthly payment were to be about, uh, probably a little bit less than $1,500 a month.

>> That's great. >> It's a much better situation. So, the point is put the house on the market and do what you just said, but you don't need to get a heliloc to buy the land.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> They're just going to be displaced for a while. >> Yeah.

Well, they're just selling you the bank. That's their job. >> Yeah. I mean, that's how they make money.

So, uh, but yeah, you don't need that. You just do it all in one lump sum. You've actually, have you built a home before? >> I've never built a home.

>> Neither have I. >> So, I'm a bit of a rookie on this. You know what I mean? Uh, but but I know you can do it all in one swoop since it sounds like you have you've researched it.

So, yeah, you're doing the right thing.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Me, too. >> Yeah. You're looking for a construction of permanent loan. Sometimes it's called like a one closed loan because you're not doing a separate loan on the land and then a separate loan. It's it's all together and it's it's one close. It's going to be easy for you to do it that way. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call. You're a smart young man and and now you know what to do and hey, walk away from these things as we have when we've made dumb decisions or or maybe not dumb but risky

and then the risk comes home to roost.

So, learn from this. Let's go to Emily who joins us now in Philadelphia. Emily, how can we help you today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. Um, >> so my husband and I were expecting our first baby in June.

>> Congrats. >> And thank you. And we were wondering uh the best way to like build wealth for our child, especially because we hope to have many children. So, we wanted to make and we wanted to start now with that.

And um I wanted to know like how to start this and then update it as we have more children and our salary changes. >> Oh, I love that. Um, you know, I feel like that's kind of been a sentiment lately, people calling in and thinking about the best way to build wealth for their kids. And truthfully, and I think Kenya would agree, I think the best way to set your children up for wealth is for you to set yourself up to build wealth.

Because when you do that, not only are they learning uh valuable money principles in the home, right? They're they're observing what you do on a daily basis. So, they're seeing you save money, they're seeing how you speak about money, they're sensing the feeling about money in the house, right? So, when it's healthy, that's very good for them.

Not to mention, as you're building wealth, then you can do those things for them that set them up to succeed, like, you know, pay for their college. Uh you can help them with their first car payment, right? You can match the cost or, you know, different things like that. So, I think that's the best place to to start.

And obviously, as you're doing that, yeah, you're putting money in a 529 for them. Maybe you have the extra money that you're putting it aside, you know, in a mutual fund that you plan to gift them at their wedding, right? Those certain things.

>> Okay. Uh yes. So that was also kind of part of it because um we make about uh

total as a household like 200,000 great >> per year >> but um I am not sure if I'll be returning after maternity leave. So okay >> what will it change to then?

>> A 100,000. >> O >> now how is that g because we don't have a ton of time with you. We're going to roll through this real quick. How will that change your budget in the sense of

will it be super tight or will you still have margin?

>> Um, it will be pretty tight especially because we're looking to buy a house now, but we're doing that based off of his income just in case. >> Good. >> Smart. >> Um, so it will be pretty tight. So, we want to like optimize what we have.

>> And you have no debt?

>> No debt. No. >> Good. >> Do you have an emergency fund? Yeah, we have almost six month emergency fund and about um like 60,000 cash and 40 in a brokerage to put down for the house.

>> Very good. >> Okay. And so I'm moving fast here just for Jay to give her the final coaching moment here. So um will we still have

margin to keep investing 15% in baby step 4 with the red reduction? You'll still be able to do that.

>> Yes. >> And then it'll be tight. So now it's baby step five. So we just aren't going to have a lot to put in there. Jade is what I'm hearing. >> Yeah. You're just 29. You're just That's the reality. So, we got to figure out some income.

>> Yeah. It's going to be tight because you're going to be investing 15%. You're buying a new house. That I mean, that's what it is. But here's the thing. How old are you guys?

>> 26 and 27. >> 26 and 27. You are so similar to the couple that called in earlier that was going to have $17 million. If you guys avoid debt, you continue to to do this, your your income continues to grow over time, you are going to retire with several millions of dollars, right? On the $100,000 income, on the $1,500 income, um you're going to have plenty.

You're going to have plenty to put that $1,500 into your investment savings.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I am Ken Coleman. We're so excited to have you with us today. The phone number to jump in825-55225825-5225.

Mason joins us now in Richmond, Virginia. Mason, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how's it going? Thank you guys so much for being here. I was looking for what advice you could give me where I think most financial adviserss would say that my fiance and I are doing really well for our age, but man, I just find myself really stressed and anxious about money all the time.

>> Well, give us some evidence that would say that these financial advisors are correct.

>> Um, so we've got we've got about 50,000

in investments. We've got no debt. We've got new paid off vehicles. Um, we've got

probably about 50 grand in cash. I mean, I think on paper we would be doing well, but there's just something in me that keeps me >> There's just something in me that's telling me, "Hey, you're never going to retire. Life's getting more expensive.

It only gets more expensive." And >> well, I can tell you kind of >> just keeping me up at night. >> I get it. Uh, totally understand. But this has nothing to do with paper. This has everything to do with your past.

Okay. >> And what I mean by that is somewhere

along the way in the environment you

grew up in or some experiences that you have lived or been adjacent to, you have

developed this narrative that you're actually calling us about today. Is that true? Or I don't mind if I'm wrong, but I doubt you just pluck this fear out of thin air. Where is it coming from?

>> That that's what I can't tell you. My uh my fiance comes from a very well-off family and I come from a pretty middle- class family, never struggled or anything. I I really can't tell you where it's coming from, but >> Oh, I know where it is. You just told me about it.

>> You actually just answered it. >> Uhhuh. Yeah, you did. >> You married a woman who comes from a very wealthy family, which is very different.

And you've got a little bit of fear of pressure. I'm not going to be able to finish the way that I see her parents finish. Or maybe I'm not going to be able to acquire everything that they have acquired.

excuse me, you're comparing your next to where they are now. And I think that's probably what's driving you crazy. I want to bring Jade in. What are you hearing? >> Uh, well, how old are you?

>> I'm 24. She's 23.

>> I think Ken is exactly right. Number number one, you're very I mean, you're just getting started. My husband and I got married at 23. And Ken is exactly right. Uh, you both came from families that did fine and did well and better than fine. And you do feel that pressure of okay, we both have a lifestyle we are

used to. We want to get there right away. And you're right, you know, you've got 50,000 invested, no debt, 50,000 in cash. You've done extremely extremely, hear me, well, for 23 and 24 year olds,

you are so far above the game. Uh I don't know if you heard the first call that we took uh where it was some folks in a similar situation and I was explaining to them the power of compounding interest. You are in such a magnificent situation because your margin is yours to invest and you're not a millionaire today but I'm telling you it ain't going to take long. Ken Coleman, it's not going to take long at all.

And I don't know if you've sat down. Here's what here's my advice to you. And I I've said this many times before.

rational and irrational. And what I find is the irrational forms tend to be

extremely vague. So what you're saying, I'm just afraid I won't be able to retire. I'm just afraid I'm going to mess it up. I'm just afraid that we won't build wealth. Why? In what way?

What's going to happen? So what I would challenge you to do is take that vague fear and put some like substantiate it a little and and put some meat on the bones. Well, if you don't build wealth, why would that be? what would happen?

You would lose your job. The stock market would crash and play out your worst fears and then you're going to look at it on paper and you're going to you're going to kind of laugh at it and go, "Okay, that's that's pretty silly." >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, let's put you on the spot.

>> Yeah.

And let's just put it out there. I want you to be as specific as you can on your greatest fear, the one that you lay awake at night. Be specific. What is it?

>> Yeah. We uh we'd love to move to California one day and uh we I own a

home in Virginia. She'll be moving in here. And uh it's it's a lot cheaper in Virginia than California. And so I just feel, hey, maybe we're never going to be be able to buy a home there. And I understand that. >> Okay, hold on. Now we're getting somewhere. >> That's good. But I want specifics.

>> So let's be specific because we're we're actually going to use Jade's coaching here, but we're going to give her numbers. All right.

>> So let's pick a number that's pretty realistic. What is that house going to cost in California roughly? >> Maybe maybe 750 for a condo or town

home. >> 750. >> I think you need to up it, my guy.

>> Let's go one time. Let's go 1.4.

>> Yeah, I like that. I like that. >> All right. 1.4. And how many years from now >> that you would be moving to California?

>> Any >> any time frame? We I mean, we'd love to move out there soon and just rent and buy buy a home eventually.

>> Okay, let's go eventually. And uh let's go. Let's uh you like 1.4 or do you want to do more than that? >> Let's start with 1.4 because they can get a condo or like a smaller townhouse.

>> 1.4. And you got no debt and all that.

So your big fear, you're telling me your big fear is I'll never be able to amass the amount of money I need to to buy that house and not be house poor.

>> Is that what I'm hearing? >> Right. Correct. >> All right, Greg. Jay, take over. This is fun. Now listen to this.

>> Okay, so here's what I do. I' I'd take the numbers and I'd work backwards. We talked about this earlier because this is vision, right? Um, you're not there today. Although I didn't get your income. What's your income today?

>> Uh, combined it'll be 130. Fantastic.

>> Okay. So, what I would start with is I'd work backwards. I'd say, "Okay, I want a house that's 1.5 million uh or 1.4

million." And right now, I make 130K.

Out of that, what do you take home every month?

>> Uh, it's about eight grand every month.

>> Eight grand. And of that eight grand, how much is margin extra?

about 2500. >> 2500. So I'd be looking at that and I'd say, "Okay, 2500, that's my margin. I want something that's 1.4. I've got to figure out how much money I need to save or make in order to have something that's 25% of my take-home. That's the math. That's the math to solve for. And when you solve for that math, you're going to start having answers. And it's going to give you something aspirational to work towards." Because here's the thing, it is 100% not out of reach. It's

just going to take some concerted effort to get there. >> Fair enough. >> Sure. >> And then what you can do, you can say, "Okay, >> makes sense. >> If I take that 2500 and let's let's play this out. Let's say this a five or six or sevenyear time horizon. What if I invested that money? How quickly could I get there if I invested it?" Um, and I would play that out. I would go on Ramsey Solutions. I' I'd use the calculator. I'd use the mortgage calculator. And I'd use the investment calculator. That's exciting.

>> Do punch in punch in 2,000 a month.

Okay. Still gives them a little bit of of margin for other things. >> Uhhuh. And we'll do it on a let's do it on a fiveyear horizon. Is do you want to

do that? 31. Do we like that?

>> Five years sounds great. >> Okay. Five years sounds great. So do you have anything invested currently? You said 50, right?

>> Uh that's just in retirement accounts.

Nothing else. >> Okay. Nothing. Okay. I won't use it. Retirement. Uh okay. So, if you started investing that today, you're going to have $250,000 in the next five years. And that's just

>> with what you have now. That's no side hustle. That's no cutting back. That's nothing else. >> So, that's pretty sweet. >> Yeah. >> So, the point is is we're not even putting you into this timeline that you got to move to California in 5 years.

What we're trying to do is address your fear >> that you're never going to have enough to live the life you want to live.

>> My friend, you're in great shape.

>> Wonderful. You need to take a deep breath. You need to take those fears to somebody else besides us. Talk through them. What's the source of it? No, I'm serious. Cuz it's okay, man. But it's so huge. Jay was right to just lay these fears out on paper, very specific, and just see how silly they are or how serious they are >> because sometimes they are justified.

So, you're in good shape, young man. Thank you so much for the call. You're way ahead of most people your age.

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All right, let's go to Washington DC next where Angela awaits. Angela, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I kind of have a twofold question. Um, my

husband and I have a, you know, great jobs. Um, and we're in Baby Step 7, uh,

huge day fans. My question is like, I

want to be a stay-at-home mom. Um, but

is walking away from this highinccome job worth it? And if so, in the

meantime, what do I say for? What else

do I do to prep prepare for this?

>> Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, let's walk this thing back. Uh, so when would you leave? If you were to leave, how long from now?

>> Well, I don't have a time frame. I was thinking September, but of course, like whenever God tells me to, you know, we've been praying into it and stuff like that. So, um, >> what's your what's your reason what's your reason for walking away? I know stay at home mom, but what give me something specific?

>> Uh, my girls, they're five and seven.

Um, you know, I don't care to bring them

to before and after care. I want to be there on field trip. >> Totally get it. Totally. The greatest reason in the world. That helps me though because I my my job here is >> just torn. >> Yeah. Well, here's what we want to do. We want to help you get to a place on this call or shortly thereafter where you can make a decision. This is not for us to tell you. That's why I asked that question. That's the greatest reason in the world. How much do you make?

>> Right.

300K. >> Okay. And how much does your husband make?

>> Um 178.

>> Okay. And so um you're in baby step seven. >> Uh what do you what do you guys have?

What does your retirement portfolio look like? I'm looking for a number.

>> Uh so net worth right now is 3.1

million. >> Fantastic. Great job. So you're going to go down to 178 uh when you walk. Yep.

>> And uh my guess is smart as you've been,

you guys are still going to have plenty of margin.

>> Oh, yes. Yes. >> How much margin? >> Thank god. Yep.

>> Uh it's about 2500 a month.

>> Fantastic. I'm having a hard time finding any reason.

>> You probably feel the pressure of it.

>> Well, that's what my next question was going to be. Is is this because you're afraid that hm what if I want to come back and I might be throwing something away? Is it that or is it fear of what

other people are going to say?

>> I don't think it's fear of what anybody else is going to say because >> you know with my my husband and I always joke with him inside the house like we are the Joneses, right? Because our our standard is different, right? We're content with what we have, right?

>> Um so I don't care what anybody else says. I see it as a badge of honor to be able to do that with my kids.

Absolutely. So what's my husband and I grew up in poverty? My husband and I grew up in poverty, right?

>> I never dreamed and he never dreamed that we'd be making this much, right?

>> And so, >> would it be foolish to step away and

>> No, not at all.

>> Because it's your definition of success.

>> Yeah. >> It it all has to do with your definition of success, your definition of importance, where you place your values of importance. It all has to do with that and and and some people do their their values are in >> um their job and what they generate and their income and their productivity and all that stuff in the work space and other people their values are centered in other areas and that is totally okay.

Okay, I'm I'm going to give you an example. Have you seen the movie The Devil Wears Prada?

>> I have. >> No. No.

>> Oh man.

>> I can't I don't I don't watch >> I get it. >> You got to watch it. But in the in the movie, she has this amazing job that quote a million girls would kill for.

She's making she's she's in proximity.

She's making money. She's doing her thing. And she doesn't like what it's doing to her home life. She doesn't like what it's doing to her relationships around her. And so she sacrifices it.

And people think she's crazy for giving up this dream job. But for her, her values are placed in other places.

That's all I wanted to tell you is it's totally okay. Success for you means that you're there with your kiddos. >> Yeah. >> That's fabulous. Let's rewind to your real fear here, which is we grew up in poverty. So the fear under there is will I? So the question I'm making this up, but the question that comes with that reality is will we have enough?

>> That's a question that is constantly rotating in your head because of your back >> backwards. >> Okay, great. >> So here's the deal. So we have to reframe the question.

And so instead of allowing the question to be will we have enough >> now we know we'll have enough like your confidence when I asked you what will your margin be it was awesome you were like you literally went like this you went oh 2500 bucks like you're so >> I was prepared I mean the numbers in advance but I'm praising you and I'm pointing out to you your confidence when you weren't thinking about that question you just boom we're fine so now the new

question is What is enough?

And so before you make this move, you write that out. What is enough? And it's like what we have is enough. We are the Joneses to use your phrase.

>> What is enough is that I get to be mom to my five and sevenyear-old. That's enough.

>> Yes, >> it is. It is. That's where my importance is. God has gotten that out of me the past year and a half. >> So my point is >> he has broke. You're making a great decision. >> You're making a great decision. And here's the deal.

>> Those girls are going to be 15 and 17 in

a whisper of a moment. I'm telling you, I'm on the other side of it. I'm ahead of you. >> Okay? I got my middle one's going to college in three months. My youngest has

got two more years. I don't even know how that happened. Okay? My point is um

you'll never get this time back. you can always get back in and make more money.

>> Right. Right. It's just it's it's just

so much. Right. And it's like what else haven't I thought of to do it while it's good? Yeah. >> Have you allowed yourself to um picture what a day is going to look like? Let's let's just assume that uh tomorrow, you

know, uh you're you're out. You've checked. You're done. >> I'm decluttering my house. I'm decluttering my house and I am going to exercise. >> Oh, I love that. >> Right. What are you going to do with the girls? What are you going to do on the first Monday when you aren't working and and it's summertime and you realize I don't have to go in today? What are you going to do with the girls?

>> We're going to go on walks. We're going to go to the park. Depends on how old they are. Like we're going to go find something to get into or maybe we'll travel. >> I don't know. Go visit family.

>> Sounds great. >> I haven't really decided summer.

>> I love that for you. I love that so much for You're going to cook meals. You're going to >> That's the You're going to take care of yourself. Man, >> my husband wants to be wants me to be a safe home mom. Like, everybody wants me to. >> Oh my gosh, what are we waiting on? Why are we even waiting till September?

>> She just needed permission. >> The chain. >> Yeah, >> the chain of 300,000.

>> Uh, listen. >> It sounds like old handcuffs.

>> Well, by the way, that's real. >> It is. It is. >> By the way, that's why that phrase came about and why it has stuck in culture so long because it really adequately describes the psychological situation

when somebody is thinking about doing what you're doing. It almost feels stupid, >> doesn't it? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. I get it. But what we got to do is >> called >> I know. Well, I hope we helped because we have to reframe.

>> The reason I asked you what the first Monday looks like with the girls when

you're done is because that's what you have to reframe around. That's what you're deciding on. You're not deciding on being stupid and walking away from 300,000. You are deciding to make

unbelievable memories that when it is all said and done, long after you stopped working, you are dreaming and fantasizing on the

past, the good old days. And when you go

home, you are in the middle of the good old days, >> man. Come on, Ken.

>> So that's Listen to that. That

>> that's joy. >> That's kind of what we wanted on this call. So >> Angela, you didn't need our permission. And I think that uh hopefully you see this now as not a dumb decision, but

maybe the smartest decision you'll ever make.

>> Yeah, that that's powerful. Okay. Well, thanks for thanks for walking me through that and help validating some things.

Appreciate it very much. >> You're an awesome mama and uh boy, >> thank you. >> You'll never ever ever ever ever

regret making the move that your heart's telling you to make. that I'll stand by and I'll fight with anybody on that anytime. Listen to your heart. It's not just a great song by heart.

>> Listen to your heart.

>> I knew she was gonna do it.

>> Oh, it's such a blessing to be able to throw a bounce pass to somebody who can do something with it. There it is.

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All right. Are you aware that we have Ask Ramsey? What is Ask Ramsey? You ask,

I'll answer. Ask Ramsey is an AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsay principles. And today, we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. And the big

question that kind of wins the derby as the most asked question, Jade, is how do I determine the appropriate amount and

type of life insurance that I need?

>> Wow. Well, first off, I love people are thinking about this. And the Ramsey principles do make it simple. When you go on Ask Ramsey, it's going to get straight to the point. They're going to say term life only. That's all you need.

That's what we would say here on the show. You need a term of about 15 to 20 years. That's what we would recommend on the show. They're going to say, "Hey, coverage amount needs to be 10 to 12 times your annual income," which is just what we would say here on the Ramsey Show.

Now, the reason is it's very straightforward. Your life insurance, guys, it has one job. The job is to replace your income if something happens to you so that your family is taken care of. Okay?

if you should be beamed up sooner than you expect. Okay?

remember if you're a stay-at-home parent, you need coverage, too. You need term and term life insurance. Even if you aren't debtree, so that's the main thing here. Uh life insurance is not a baby step.

You need to get it in place as soon as you learn about it. Ken, >> absolutely. So remember, Ask Ramsey can help you determine how much term life insurance you need uh to get from Xander based on your specific situation. Of course, you've been with us anytime.

Uh we have been partnering with Xander uh for a very very long time. They are fantastic.

absolutely can help you. What they do is

um they actually shop all the different insurance opportunities for you to get you the best rate. I've known Jeff Sander for probably 15 20 years. Yeah,

>> great dude, great organization. Uh, so xander.com is the website there and uh

go today. You won't believe, by the way, how affordable term life is. I don't

think most people think uh that life

insurance is as cheap as it is.

>> Yeah. It's it's in the teens.

>> Yeah. So, very very important and you got to do it. I remember early on when we got this this teaching. This was many

many many years ago and uh we were in our 20s, Stacy and I just newly wed. And I remember feeling so responsible going to bed that night that if something were to happen to me, my bride, I didn't have we didn't have kids. It was going to be okay. >> Absolutely.

And that's the key, the peace of mind to know that if something tragic happens and unexpected that after all the grief and all of that kind of stuff that they're dealing with, they don't have to deal with the stress of not being able to take care of themselves. That's why this is such a huge deal.

They're starting to see it. So, very good stuff. Kathy is up next in Denver, Colorado. Kathy, how can we help today?

>> Um, yeah. Thank you for taking my call.

Um, what I'm calling about is my dad's

finances. Um, he's 80, um, and has

Parkinson's and recently had a fall, so I ended up having him in a nursing home so he'd have access to therapy. So, he has

oh, close to 600,000

in checking.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. And um so I'm wondering if I'm

overstepping my bounds to put it in a

CD. I've asked him several times and his

theory is he's going to get out and he's

fine and he's going to go back to running his business and everything's good. So he says, "Nope, don't worry about it." >> Okay. >> But it's, you know, it's only earning

one account's at 01, one's at 0.25.

You have power of attorney.

>> Uh, no. Um, you know, because I'm just a

kid and I don't need it.

>> Understood. So, >> so it sounds like I I I have a feeling

um yes, this money is of issue, but I think there's a bigger issue here, which is you've got to work on convincing him

that you need more control in this situation as he's aging and hopefully as

his health is declining at a very slow rate is was my hope here. But you said he's 80. How long has he had Parkinson's?

Um he's had Parkinson's for probably 25 years. Um his mental state since this

fall has deteriorated. Um

>> and he he Yeah. Um I'm the only child so

I don't have like anybody else to kind of bounce ideas off of.

>> What about his home? >> That's >> um >> his previous home. Oh, it's yes, it's uh quite rural and so I had originally

thought I would try moving him home this summer when the weather wasn't going to be an issue, but um last time I talked

to him here this morning, he thought he was in a hotel.

>> So, >> what is his retirement accounts like?

What does he have there? I know he's got 600K in checking. What does the rest of it look like? >> Um most all of it's in CDs. Um, and

honestly, I'm I would have to go look all those up. I'm not 100% sure. My names are on the checking accounts so I can write checks. Um, >> can you just move the money and not I mean, I I'm not saying I would move it to a CD. I'd probably just put it on high yield savings account, but can you >> Okay. >> Can you move that?

>> You You're your name is on the account.

>> I honestly I might just go ahead and do it. He's going to be none the wiser and it's for his benefit. Um, I probably

wouldn't go as far as to invest it because I feel like he needs he would need to sign off on that. But >> he has more than 600,000 is what I'm trying to understand. Correct.

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. He's um >> What's his worth? I mean, if you had to guess.

>> Oh. Uh, including land.

>> Yeah. >> Um, probably 10 to 12 million.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. I I guess the reason I'm asking this is Kathy, I love where your heart's at and I'm so glad you called us. I don't think you have to do much here.

>> Does he have an estate plan?

>> No. >> Oh, now that's now that to me is the priority. You getting in charge of you taking over his finances? I think that's going to happen pretty soon anyway.

>> Um he's in such good shape that I think the bigger issue is is like you're the only child. What kind of a will does he have? No will.

>> There's no will. >> He has to do that. Like that is that is

priority number one, not you managing his money. You're already managing his money in the sense that if he begins to lose all of his ability to function, uh

you're already on the account, so you can do all that. But the guy's got 10 to 12 million out there, you need to get a will while he's still coherent.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. >> That's priority number one. You know what's going to happen, Jade? Tell them tell her what happens if if he passes and there's no will. >> There's no will. It's going to go through the courts. It's going to go through probate there. It's just going to take forever. And you don't know how

all of this is going to get divvied up.

I mean, you're the only child, but I don't know what else is going on. I don't know if there's a step brother and everybody comes out of the woodwork. >> Yeah. This is scary to me. I This is

something I would be dealing with this weekend. >> Not this weekend. like, "Well, you're hanging up the phone with us and you're going to see dad, >> okay? >> Now, listen, you know how to talk to him, okay? But you've got to be asking him questions like, "Hey, dad, do you have an estate plan?" and things of this nature. And it's not going to be fun to talk to because he's thinking about getting out and last thing he told you, I'm coming back to run my business and all these things.

>> Um, >> you know what I might do? I might call up a lawyer and find somebody that will

will take this on and that will go with you to him. >> Great. >> And kind of work, you know what I'm saying? So your dad doesn't have to go anywhere. You could almost start wrapping this up. So I would get with the lawyer. I'd say, "Here's the situation. We need to get this done.

He's not going to come to you and and try to knock knock out and and let him get, you know, the gist of the situation in order to get that started." >> Okay. Okay. All righty.

>> But I would I would say this. I'd start with a question with dad. Hey, Dad.

What's your plan? What What is your plan? And maybe you've already had this conversation, have you?

>> Um, yeah, to a certain degree. And um, yeah, he he's going to get out and everything's going to be fine and he's >> I understand. I met like, "Dad, what is your plan upon you passing?" >> Cuz that will happen. >> I don't think he thinks he's going to that's going to happen. >> Wow. Oh, well now that's a lot. >> I don't know how he's figured that one out because, you know, no, nobody else has. >> Nobody else has gotten out of this deal alive. That's true.

>> No. No. >> Well, Kathy, I'm not sure. That's a tough one. But this has got to be the sweetest, kindest, most respectful

>> nudge. >> Yeah. >> Uh you there's no one else to do it. And trust me, this is is not going to be near as painful as what it will be if you don't get this handled. I can assure you of that.

Oh, we've had a blast on the road taking the Ramsay show out on the road to see all you fine folks. We have two down. We did Charlotte and Denver. Uh Jade and I

were out with John Deloney in Denver just last week and uh we're about ready to head out next week to join Rachel Cruz. It'll be Rachel, Jade, and myself.

Uh uh on April the 21st in Phoenix. And

uh we have a few seats left. Not many, but a few. And it's your last chance to snag those. It is a live Q&A. So, it's the show >> and instead of phone calls, we got people in the room standing up and mics asking us questions. We have a lot of fun. The energy in the room is absolutely amazing. So, if you're listening to us or watching and you're in the Phoenix area, uh we'd love to see you April the 21st. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events.

ramiesolutions.com/events and get your tickets. Going to be fun.

Are you um are you going to be uh

enjoying any Phoenix uh food or sights and sounds? Have you thought that far ahead? >> You know, if I could, I would try to get to a basketball game. >> I know. We already checked on that.

Unfortunately, Suns will not be in town.

>> Dad gum it. >> I know. We would have been there. We absolutely would have been there. So anyway, it's not going to happen. Uh Lesie is joining us in San Diego, California. Leslie, how can we help?

>> Hi there. So I'm looking for financial advice. I've had a lot of major changes in my life over the last couple of years, and the most recent one is actually led me to a housing issue where I'm not sure if I can even afford housing. It's a sticker shock at this point. Um, and I'm just I have family and friends who are giving me advice and options and different things to do and I'm just not sure what is really the best option for me.

>> Okay. Maybe walk us through these options that you're getting all this advice on.

>> Um, so one is um

all of this kind of plays into I was doing the baby steps before all of this happened. >> Oh, before all what happened? Take us back. >> So my mom passed last month. Oh, I'm

sorry. >> And I was living with her, helping take care of her. >> Oh.

>> Um, so I was on babysat, too, paying off

all of my debt because I a couple years prior I was in a car accident and I got a settlement and I my coworker was like,

"Hey, our job pays for this. Do it. See what it says." And before you do anything with money, so I started the, you know, the dates are baby step final planning and everything.

I was on step two and then my mom got sick.

>> Um, cancer, sorry. So, I It's funny. A week after

she was diagnosed, I watched a video of your guys's and all of them had said in

in the instance of cancer, drop everything and safe. So, that's what I started to do because I wasn't sure what to do next and I was focusing on taking care of my mom.

So, she's now passed and I can't afford

the place that I was renting with her.

And frankly, I don't I wasn't expecting the cost to be so close to what I'm paying now on my own for our studio compared to what we were erecting.

>> Sure. >> Okay. >> Um, so I I have been looking for

different options. Um, and you know, there there are different things. So, I saved some money um about $13,000 in cash over the last

couple of months um to try and get an

essay to figure out what I want to do.

Um I have they're not blood related, but

they're family. Um and they they have offered to help me buy a home and I would pay them back. No. >> Which makes me nervous because um rightfully so. >> I don't want to ruin the relationship.

>> Absolutely. Follow go with your gut. So, take that off the list, shall we? Can we just delete that?

>> Okay. And then, um, what's next?

>> So, I have been looking at housing and I'm about $600, $800 short on just basic

cost. Um, whether it is rent or, you know, estimated utility cost.

>> Um, I do have a car loan, which is pretty pretty high. I mean, it's not too bad at $21,000, but the monthly payment on it is about $600 a month, which is which is roughly what I'm short every month.

>> Yep. >> Wow. Um, I have, you know, like I said, I had saved up $13,000. So, I can take a good chunk out of that and try and refinance it again. And that that was a thought and I, you know, continue to try and save between now and when I have to leave where I am. >> But I just >> When do you have to leave where you are?

>> I have two months to find a place.

>> Okay. Two months. What about because

you're you're getting back on your feet and I'm going to ask you in a minute what type of work you're doing, but have you considered some place where you have a roommate cuz you've just been in a roommate situation and you were able to it was tenable for you. So, what if we find another roommate situation temporarily while you're able to get

career back up and going and all of these things, pay maybe pay off this car or sell off this car.

It is crazy that a small 300 foot studio

apartment is the same cost as a roommate.

>> So then why don't we do a small >> So if what you're saying is I'd rather have a studio apartment than a roommate and it's the same price, that's fine.

>> Yeah. So that originally I was like, "Oh, if it's cheaper, I'll do a roommate." I mean, I don't have anyone I can do it with, but I'll, you know, there there are ways to find people, you know, kind of a thing. >> But the price is, you know, minimal, like $100 difference, maybe. I mean,

>> do you have to stay in that area? Do you have to stay in the area that you're in? Because it sounds like your area is super expensive.

>> Um, so that that is leaving the area

that I'm in. >> Okay. So, let's get real numbers. >> Stay in the same neighborhood. That that number would be like 3,000.

>> Okay. But what's a one >> going 30 minutes in one direction or another gets me closer to >> what what are the prices? >> What's a onebedroom studio going to cost you? >> A one-bedroom studio um about 20 minutes

from where I am now is between$,695 and

2,100. >> Okay. What's keeping you in the area where you are now?

>> Uh my job. So, I I do work for a

construction company and my radius has been 30 minutes from that job.

>> Okay. I'm going back here because there was so much floating around. The $1,600 I'm taking the lowest number you just threw out at us. 1695. Okay. That's

You're saying if you got a roommate for something bigger, it would be the same amount. Did I understand that right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Is the 1,600 a month is that putting you 600 bucks behind?

>> Yeah. >> About Yeah. Okay. So, >> when I factor in utilities, yes.

>> So, we got to get out of this car.

>> That's what I'm thinking. >> Yeah. Because with the $600 in the car payment obviously make a massive difference for you. Correct.

>> Yeah. So, I >> You'd still be scraping,000 in my bank account. >> You what?

>> I have 13,000 in my bank account.

>> Uhhuh. Tell us. Okay.

>> That I have been essentially hoarding

while we figured out what was happening with my mom. >> Great. I want >> I want to get some real numbers from you before we run out of time. First off, I want to know what are you earning from this job?

>> Um before taxes, 62,000 a year.

>> Okay. What does that look like? What do you take home every month?

>> Um my net is about 3,000.

>> I am putting money into a 401k and there

we need to pause that. Uh, I think that we need to get you familiar with the baby steps and we're going to make sure you leave with every dollar and everything that's connected to it, which is the our Ramsay plan. But what I'm getting what I'm trying to get you down to is a foundational spot. We need all

of your income at your disposal. If we were to do the following things, this is going to work for you. If we pause retirement because kind of like what you said with the cancer deal, you kind of paused and you you stacked up money until it it was time. It's the same thing with investing. You're not in a place that you're ready to invest yet.

So, it's temporarily deposit. Get that money back in your pocket. How much money would that be back in your pocket?

>> Um, let's see. It's 6%. So,

about $200 each paycheck.

>> There's Well, we're at $400 already. And what I would do if I were in your shoes, that $21,000 car, I would look and see

what it's worth. Hopefully, you're not upside down. I would go on Kelly Blue Book tonight, see what it's worth, private sale, and I would sell it. And then I would use the $13,000 that you have, and I'd maybe use, I don't know,

eight or 10, and I'd buy myself a car in cash. And now you've still got a little bit of money there that if you have other debt that you need to clear out, you can start using that for other debt. And I keep $1,000 saved. That's what I would do because now you've got the $600 back in your pocket every month plus the $400 from investing. I just found you a thousand dollars.

>> Okay. >> Why are you not excited about this?

That's a lot of money, girlfriend. I just broke you free. >> It's so my job matches my 401k. So

that's why I >> You'll be able to do that later. Remember, this is just temporarily. I want you to have the money that you need to get in a situation where you can find some stability, get your legs underneath you, and now you're not feeling like you're in crisis mode. And when that happens, you'll be able to find ways to build up your income and eventually you'll be able to invest again. And that match will still be there waiting for you when you need it.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade War. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to have you with us today. 888255225

is the phone number. We start off with Joshua in San Francisco. Joshua, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, I've got about $80,000 in tax

debt and 50,000 in credit card debt. And I'm

wondering if I should file bankruptcy and just kind of start over.

>> What's your income?

>> Uh, 70,000 and then combined with my

wife like around a h 100,000.

>> Okay. And that's your total debt that you just gave us?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What is your mortgage or your rent?

>> Rent is 2,200.

>> Okay. What's your take-home number every month?

>> Um takehome for me is probably like

4400.

>> Mhm.

And for my wife is uh she her job's a

little bit seasonal. It's she cleans Airbnbs, but it's probably around like 3,000 a month at least on average.

>> Okay. And and what's making you think that bankruptcy is the only way out of this?

um because it just seems like such an

insurmountable number and now the taxes

are like racking up interest and penalties and the credit cards are, you

know, I used to be able to do balance transfers and kind of keep it under control, but it's just gotten out of control and so now, you know, it's just high interest. Uh, I

can make the minimum payments, but just seems like I'm never going to be able to pay it off. >> Sure. What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, maintenance tech for uh, apartment buildings. >> Okay. And what does your wife do?

>> She cleans Airbnbs. That's right. And does some caregiving. >> Okay. I'm going to start right here and go right to what I think is one of the key things we need to address today is what is the amount of income after taxes

if Jade and I could just put it into your account today. Okay. What amount of

money would allow you to start making progress and feel like you're actually getting momentum?

>> You mean like how much money?

>> Let's just assume I'm giving you extra income after taxes every month. I'm asking you, do you know how much money

extra a month if I gave it to you in payments? What would make a huge difference for you to where you go? Not only am I taking care of it, but I'm actually starting to knock this debt down. I'm making progress. I see momentum. What's that number? Additional income.

>> I mean, if it's 150 or 130 grand total,

um I don't know. Like >> that's the problem. You see what I'm saying? That wasn't a trap question, but I don't think you're on a budget. Am I right?

>> Correct. >> So, the reason I ask you that is because that's part of the issue. Your wife needs to be working at minimum 40 hours.

Seasonal work for people who are broke and are worrying about bankruptcy is not an option. There is no seasonal work.

You work every season. You're working 60 hours a week for a season,

right?

Mhm.

>> You said that like that's interesting, but like you didn't believe me.

>> Um, I mean, we have a 14-year-old.

I've, you know, I've encouraged her to get more of a regular job for many years. And >> why are we talking about the Yeah, but the 14-year-old is self-sustaining. The 14-year-old can let themselves in from school. I've I've raised three kids. My youngest is 18 now. I'm not worried about the 14-year-old. That's an excuse.

Why isn't she making more money?

>> I'm just telling you where she's at. She >> I get it. But >> she's like resentful of the fact even that she has to work at all.

>> Well, that's a problem, but I'm You called us for financial advice and you guys need more income. So, let's shift.

All right. I can't solve the marriage problem. I can't solve that issue.

>> But I can tell you this. I can tell you $3,600 changes your life >> without question. >> $3,600 a month. >> So, let's shift it to you, okay? because she's resentful for working and you're calling us. She's not on the phone. So, with the skills you have, can you pick up overtime or go to a second job? And what this basically means is roughly 2500 bucks a month or even 2,000 bucks a month would make a big difference. Can you do that, Josh?

>> I could. Yeah. >> Well, that's our I've worked I've worked two jobs uh many points in my life.

>> Great. Um, but still like so say I came

up with an extra three grand >> a month to pay down this debt. That's

>> even if I'm putting every dollar of that, that's 36 grand a year.

>> It would still take me what, five years,

four or five years. >> It's going to take you between three and four years if you go intensely to pay this off.

>> Right. So my question is,

as an alternative to that, what if I just filed for bankruptcy,

got rid of as much of this debt as possible? >> What if I told you? What if I told you I spent seven and a half years paying off $460,000 of debt

>> and I didn't file for bankruptcy?

>> I think that's awesome. I'm just kind of I'm older now. >> Why are we different?

How old are you?

>> I'm 47. >> Bro, don't be bringing that to me. I'm 51. >> You're not old. >> Here's here. And here's why. Here's here's why. When you file bankruptcy, the control goes out of your hands.

>> Yeah. Do you understand what it looks like?

>> I don't think you do. Go ahead, Jay. Paint the picture. >> No, not exactly.

>> They're going to decide. They're going to make all the decisions depending on which chapter you file. They're going to make all decisions. They're either going to say, "Hey, we're going to put you on a payment plan," which is honestly something you can do yourself.

They're going to look at your assets and they're going to say, "We're going to sell off these assets and these assets and we're going to put that towards the debt." That's something that you can decide to do for yourself. It's going to tank your credit. That's something that's already happened or going to happen anyway. Do you see what I'm saying?

So, why relinquish control when you have the opportunity here to go, "Okay, I can look at my assets. I can determine what I want to sell off, when I want to sell it off, how I want to sell it off.

Here's how much I can put towards it." And that's that's what I want to retain for you is the dignity of being able to make your own choices and not h them come in and have your stuff sold out from under you and all the choices made for you. That's what I'm trying to save you from. I've never experienced bankruptcy. Dave Ramsey has.

and he would sit here and tell you, you can work your way through this. And I'm telling you from my experience of paying off debt, the next four to 5 years, they're not going to be fun. I can tell you that right now. It's not going to be something that's enjoyable.

There will be enjoyable parts of life, but working two to three jobs is not going to be the enjoyable part. But what is going to feel good is knowing that you made some mistakes. You made a bit of a mess, but you're also the same person that can turn back around and clean it up. There is dignity in that.

And there is something there's a confidence that's built in that.

Guaranteed, Ken. >> Oh, there's no question. I think Joshua, what we're hearing is a guy who feels like he's ready to give up. You called us going, I think this is my last shot.

This is the Hail Mary. the clock's ticking down and I only have a 55 yard pass and I hope someone catches it and I think it's bankruptcy and we're telling you that's not the case. You got to believe I do tell you you've got a marriage issue. You guys got to get on the same page.

I get that she don't want to do it but I think you guys are in the have to stage.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

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If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. The plan is built right in. You can track your progress, plus get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. It's like having one of us walk with you every day, showing you the next right step.

You can start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's get to Alex right here in our backyard in Nashville. Alex, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys, uh me and my wife are recently married. We have a 10-month-old. Um we're about $35,000 in combined debt.

Uh, I make about $84,000 a year before

tax and she recently started doing photography. Uh, and that's bringing in uh kind of a slow passive income. Uh, we have about $13,000 saved and I'm about

to receive a $10,000 bonus. So, we're just trying to figure out how to navigate this debt.

>> Okay. $10,000 bonus. I was just writing everything down. When do you get the bonus? I al uh I was supposed to get it

uh this past paycheck uh but I work for the government so um there's no telling

it could be next paycheck or 3 months from now so I'm not super depending on that right away. >> Um but I was wondering what the best course of action would be to do with that. I also recently found out that I have a pension from an old uh job that I

have that I didn't know about >> and I have to decide what to do with that. How much >> as well? >> Uh there's about $13,000 in that. And when I called them a week ago, they said that I can leave it in that uh fund for

up to 5 years after separation uh from that police department and it'll grow at a guaranteed 5%. Or I can transfer it to my new retirement or I can withdraw it and take a penalty. >> Um I would transfer it to retirement.

Uh I would not pull it out. It's if if it's retirement funds, I'd keep that retirement fund at this point because the penalty will be what? Not just that you're taxed on it, income tax, but will there be a 10% penalty?

>> Uh, I believe she said it was 20.

>> Oh, yeah. We're keeping that locked in.

So, yeah, I would do if you're able to do a direct transfer roll over and just roll it over to an IRA, I I would do that. So, let's take that let's take that money off the table. So, we've got the 13,000 saved. We've got a $10,000 bonus that's coming at some point. We don't really know exactly when. Um, so that gives us in theory 23, but today just the 13. So, are you familiar with the baby steps?

>> I am. Uh, we're on baby step two. Been on it for quite a while. We spent the last two years paying off about $80,000 worth of private student loans. >> Oh, wow. Very good. Very good. So, this 35,000 is just the tail end. What kind of What kind of debt is it?

Uh 18 of it is a government student loan

for me. Uh three of it is a government student loan for her. Three of it is a credit card that she had before our marriage. And am I missing any?

>> Uh yes.

>> Oh, sorry. About 11 of it is a vehicle.

>> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, I'm going to look

at this and I'm going to reverse engineer it and I'm going to say, how quickly do I want to pay off this $35,000 of debt and that's going to inform how hard we work going forward.

Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. >> So, I don't know if you've gone into Every Dollar, but in Every Dollar, there's a really cool feature in there.

It's a financial roadmap feature where you can basically go in, plug in your numbers, and it'll say based on what you're doing today, here's how quickly you can pay this debt off. So my question to you is how much margin do you have to throw out this debt every single month?

>> Uh well we just recently sat down to do a complete overhaul of our finances. Um and I would say currently like excluding her photography maybe 500 a month.

>> Okay. 500 a month. So you brought up the photography. I want to actually talk about the photography because I think that's part of you guys breaking this thing free. You didn't include it in your $84,000 of debt, which makes me think there's not a whole lot I'm sorry, in your $35,000 of debt, which makes me think that there's not a whole bunch of money being made from that. How much is she bringing in every month?

Well, she started it uh two months ago and she initially was booked out uh every weekend for a month and she did all those shoots for free and now she's doing shoots for about 100 uh a shoot and she's doing usually two a day Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

>> Yeah. I want to go back into the numbers here. You have a car loan for $11,000.

What's the payment on that every month?

>> It's about 500. Um, I wanted to when we

got married, uh, we talked about just selling it and getting something cash.

Uh, unfortunately there's some damage to the vehicle. So, >> Alex, I I don't know why we're not talking about the $13,000. You said you're walking the baby steps. Well, if you're in the baby steps, you shouldn't have $13,000.

>> Half of that has to go. >> You should have 12,000 at your disposal today. And if it's me, I'm going to pay that car off. I know that's not the smallest debt that you have.

Or maybe it is. I can't remember what the number >> got 3,000 in credit cards and 3,000 in >> I don't know if you're okay with that, but I want to pay that car off and get that $500 a month back and that's going to take care of that credit card payment fast.

>> Well, the reason that we had so much saved is because originally we were living with my family and we didn't know how much money we needed because we're first-time parents. So, we'd saved it up and then I just didn't know Yeah.

>> the best way to >> No shame at all. I'm just saying, you know, I'm not cracking on you. I love that you've been responsible. I'm just saying that's $12,000 you have to to

tackle this stuff. >> Mhm. You know, at this point, yeah, if you wanted to pay off the car first, fine. If you wanted to do typical B uh, you know, debt snowball method, knock out the credit card for 3,000, knock out the student loan, and then come back and hit the car. That's fine. The point here is you've got $23,000 to pay off. And

how quickly can you do that? If you throw 2,000 a month at that, you're done in 6 months, right? If you throw a thousand a month at it, you're done in a calendar year, right? >> And if a wife goes to work, Jade, full-time and still does the photography part-time, we're only talking about a season. We're not telling her to shut the dream down, right? >> Just go get a $30,000 job or something.

And boy, we're out of this quick, >> real fast, >> right? >> But you guys are going to have to I think this is your first encounter with kind of like that sacrificial lifestyle.

And you're going to feel it. Well, you're either going to feel it in time.

You're going to feel it in your wallet.

You're gonna feel it in the things that you wish you were doing with your money instead. The things that you wish you were doing in with your time instead.

Because I can guarantee you this, Ken, nobody likes a side hustle.

>> No, >> nobody likes working extra hours and nobody likes doing it for 12 months. So, we'll go ahead and that's a gimme. We'll tell you that that that that's the truth. But if you're asking us, hey, how do we do it? That's the method. You keep $1,000 saved as baby step one. You take anything else that you have saved and you apply it to your debt using the debt snowball method. That's smallest to largest by balance. You knock them out.

And then from there on, now you're on to being able to take that money, save up 3 to six months of emergency funds. But baby step two is the kicker because that's where the sacrifice lies, >> right? >> What are your thoughts?

>> Uh, no. I mean, that's exactly what I was looking for. Um, I guess I was just kind of looking for the green light to go ahead and just dump the 12 and keep the 1,000 uh saved. And I I really wanted clarification on the pension as well.

And >> yeah, >> uh, I guess I'll just move that over to my current retirement instead of throwing it at the desk. Correct. >> Yeah, because it's most of it will get sucked up anyway if you do this. If you said there's a 20% penalty, you'll be taxed on your income tax.

Yeah, I would not touch that. Please just roll that over. Um, and make sure your wife's on board with this. >> Yeah.

uh uh federal law enforcement.

>> Yeah. Are you able to pick up, you know,

um part-time work, you know, in that

>> I am not, but I the nice thing is I have guaranteed salary increases. So, say in October of this year, I'm going to get a $20,000 pay raise. In October of next year, it'll be the same. >> Great. Well, if your wife is willing to just for a season, uh start making more

money and uh boy, you you guys are going to be out of this. I I'm going to tell you right now, we've heard too many stories. So, I'm going to challenge you to be out of debt in 10 months.

>> I think you totally have that in the bag. >> That's, you know, I I I that's going to require again sacrifice and stretching, you know, as far as more work, but I I think you guys can do that.

>> Yes, sir. >> I appreciate you guys. >> Yeah, I appreciate you. Thanks for all that you've done to serve our community and uh in our country. That's great. Uh you know, this is very interesting. You said something that I wanted to bring back to you to young couples that are out there listening and they're new to this. >> Yeah. >> You said this is your first time. You're talking to Alex, you know, and his wife.

It's your first time reaching this thing where we've got to come together and sacrifice. And you and Sam have always been the model of that. Encourage young couples. >> Yeah. This is good for your marriage.

Whenever you can lock arms, whenever you can band together and gang up against the thing that's trying to horn in on your marriage, your life, your relationship, your dreams for each other, that is so solidifying. And what you get the opportunity to to prove to each other is I can count on you and you can count on me. If Sam says he's going to do it, he does it. If Jade says she's going to do it, she does it. That is the best thing. It builds trust and security in your marriage and wealth.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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>> Okay, today's question comes from Brooke in Alabama. My husband and I are in baby step two with about 50,000 in debt. We

are also in stor mode, meaning they have a baby on the way. I love that my husband has a generous heart, but we always go over budget with tithing and gift giving and never make progress paying off debt. I suggested that we buy smaller gifts for now so that we can be more generous in the future, but he won't consider doing this. Am I being stingy or is he being too generous for our means? Okay, so I want to start by

uh differentiating between the tithing and the giftgiving. So, if you're a tither, that means that you're a Christian person and you have the belief of giving 10% of your earnings to a

local church. And it sounds like they have that belief. So, I'm going to decouple that from the gift giving because if that's a a religious value or

conviction that you have, that needs to be part of your budget, I would say, whether you are in baby step two or not.

So for most of us, myself included, even when we are in baby step two, tithe is at the top of the list. Giving is at the top of the list. We never stop tithing.

I would not recommend you do that. Now, if the tithe, aside from the giftgiving, if that is causing you to go over budget, that means there's something else that's wrong. Either there are other items in your budget that are over inflated or your income is an issue.

Right, Ken? I mean, that that's what I would say. Yeah. So, that would be my first I' I'd put my detective hat on and I'd say, "Okay, are we going over the budget simply if we tithe? If we stop the gift giving, are we still in the red?" And if that's the case, we have further work to do. All right, let's talk about the giftgiving side of it.

Um, in baby step two, I think that you

need to be very choosy uh parsimmonious in your in your gift giving because

generosity generally flows out of overflow and you don't really have that.

So, I would be very thoughtful about if

I'm giving, when I'm giving, and how much I can actually put towards it because you can't be putting yourself in the red being generous.

>> Yeah. You know, Yeah. You just can't give gifts right now. I mean, if we're not Are we talking about your kids?

>> Are we talking about the birthday? Exactly. >> We talking about Christmas, what are we talking about? But if we're talking about like, hey, you know, Larry, um, Larry's retiring. I'd like to get him a golf head cover. It's like, no, man.

You're broke. >> We're all chipping in for Janice. You know, she's getting >> Janice. I can tell you who doesn't need a gift. It's Janice. >> She don't need it. She's got cats at home. She don't need anything.

>> She's >> That is so >> She's nickn There's like hundreds of thousands of Janicees that are listening to us right now. We're going to get slack for that.

>> Janice, we love you. I'm also We love you, Janice. >> Yeah, that's funny. Uh, good stuff there. Let's go to Kylie now in Dallas, Texas. Kylie, how can we help?

Kylie. >> Hi. Hi. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> I'm doing well. I'm calling um with a quick question regarding my husband and I. We actually have no debt, strong savings, and invest constantly um and

consistently, but we feel very stuck.

We're hesitant to make big decisions like buying a home or spending because we don't want to make the wrong move. So we just are looking for clarity on what we can actually afford and how to move forward confidently without overthinking everything. >> Great. All right. So let's take the thinking out. Let's just look at the numbers. How about that? Is that okay?

>> Sure. >> Okay. So what is your combined income?

>> Um combined income is my husband makes

200k a year. Um, and then he gets a

quarterly bonus that ranges between 20

and 35,000.

>> So, let's split the difference there, right? Let's go 25,000 just for fun.

It's not truly splitting. I know for those of you keeping score, >> but let's say so that's another 100,000.

>> Correct. >> So, 300,000. Do you bring any income in?

>> I do not currently. I've >> So, 300K, what do we have saved?

We have um around 250,000 in a high

yield savings account.

>> Great. What do you have in your retirement accounts?

>> We have 50K in um a brokerage investment

account and maxed out um the Roth IAS

and we also max match the 401ks.

>> So what's your total investment in nest nest egg right now? What is it at

>> including the 401k? Yeah, >> I'm not sure.

>> I I'd love to know. Minus the 50,000. So the 50,000 is the only non-re nonretirement investing that you have.

>> I believe so. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I was just trying to get a full picture. The bottom line is you have $250,000 in cash in a high yield savings

account, which is way above what your 3 to six months emergency fund would be.

and uh you're you and and you got a great income.

>> So, what type of house? What what what's the price point for the house that if you had all the money right now? I don't want scared, Kylie. I want Kylie who's dreaming because she can get any house she wants to get uh within, you know, obviously we're not talking about any house. That that was poorly worded. What is the house you want to get? >> Yeah. Just give me the price range

>> for the school district that we would prefer to be in. The entry level homes

are probably around a million.

>> Okay. Okay. And so when I look at that,

you know, our rule of thumb here is you don't want uh your monthly payment on that to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And of course, that's everything in that's HOA, uh, taxes, insurance, all of that um, is included in that price. So, my question to you

is, if we were to

get on a mortgage calculator and plug those numbers in, you've got the two, and this is what I would do tonight with your husband. Technically, at your disposal, I would take the 250,000 that's in the HYSA, and I would knock it down to six months of expenses. What would you call six months of expenses?

>> Um, currently without having any debt, we're renting. Our rent is 3,000 a month. No car notes, no anything. So, um, I'll say 6,000 a month.

>> Okay. Uh, okay. So, 36,000.

We save that out. Does that feel good?

We'll round it up to 40. That makes me feel good. Okay. So, now we're playing with $210,000.

So, what I'd be looking at is what's you guys' take-home pay?

>> Um, his take-home is um 6,000 after

taxes uh a paycheck. So, >> 6,000? That doesn't sound right. On a three, you say this man makes 300,000 a year. >> Well, it's bon he gets quarterly bonuses. So, just from the 200k, it's a little over 5,000 a paycheck.

>> So, >> so a little under 12,000 a month takehome. >> Okay, there you go. >> Okay. So, what I would be doing is I would be looking for a mortgage of around $3,000, give or take. That would

be my goal, that you're paying every single month. So, then what I'm going to do is I would go into a, you know, mortgage calculator. I'm using the one on Ramsey Solutions. And I'd say, okay, what do I have to put down in order to get my mortgage into that placement?

And then I'd work backwards from there.

Right now, you got 210 you could throw in there. And if you wanted to get into this brokerage account, you could.

That'd give you 260 if you wanted to.

There's really no penalty in you doing that. And I'm looking at a 15-year fixed rate. If I do that, if I put $260,000

down on this million-doll house, that gives me a monthly mortgage payment of $7,955 estimated for you. That's too high. So

then I go, okay, what if we doubled that? What if we saved up, you know, 250 more over the course of time? How quickly could I do that? Now I'm putting 500,000 down on this house. When I do that, suddenly my mortgage is down to $5,800.

Right? So that's the game I would play.

And that's going to help you know how much money do we need to have saved up in order to do this in a way that feels good. It feels right.

>> Right. Um would you recommend in the

meantime to just continue renting in the

school district that we would want to be? >> I would. Yeah, I would. I think that that's where you guys want to be. And all you're doing is when you're renting, you're just buying time. You're buying time and you're buying money to stack up for this down payment. And I think that that's a great investment for you guys.

You're going to be there in the next 2 to 3 years.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke. and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go

download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day is First Thessalonians 5:11. and therefore encourage one another and build each other up just as in fact you are doing our quote of the day from David Brinkley. A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown in him.

>> I promise you I've done that.

>> I've done that a couple times in life.

That always feels nice.

>> Chris is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Chris, how can we help today?

>> Hey, I was calling uh had a question. I wanted to get you guys opinion on if the vehicle that me and my wife are looking to purchase is in line with our current financial picture. >> Okay. Tell us about it, how much it costs.

>> All right. Um looking at two different uh trucks and one of them that I really like is $45,000 uh dollar.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> What's the other one?

>> Uh the other one's 35,000.

>> Okay. And uh what else do we need to know here? So do you have any debt?

Uh, no sir, no debt. Uh, just a mortgage. >> And what do you have saved up for this vehicle?

>> Uh, well, currently in retirement savings, I have uh 272,000 uh in a traditional 401k through my employer. >> Uh, and me and my wife, we have $115,000

liquid cash in a savings account.

>> Uhhuh. And what is your uh combined income?

Uh last year my taxable income was $187,000.

Uh my wife makes 35,000.

So after tax bring home uh between 150 and 160. >> Right. So you've got more than enough to cover it looks like the truck plus have a good uh 3 to six month emergency fund in cash. Correct.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. And really where the question comes from is we just bought my wife uh a new vehicle after having our first child. Uh we did that with cash.

Um, and it was $37,500

vehicle. Uh, we paid cash for that and

we we have cash to pay. We'd be paying cash for the truck as well. It just felt like a lot of money, you know, within two months of each other. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you've got it. What would you of the 115,000?

What would you consider your 3 to six months of emergency fund?

>> Uh, we, you know, probably 25,000.

Oh, okay. Well, it sounds like you've got the margin there. Did you have the money possibly earmarked for something else? Because usually when you're saving up, you know, a stack of money like that, you're doing it for a purpose.

>> Otherwise, you'd be investing it, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. And I mean, um, you know, for me, I've just always been, you know, when I soon as I get paid, I move everything over that I don't need for the month to a savings account. And, >> um, >> and you just said it right there. it that way. But >> your language there that should set you free free because you said um >> what you need you keep in your account and what you don't need you move over.

So that that means you don't need this money. It's not earmarked for anything else and you're wanting to upgrade a vehicle. And what I'm looking at is the numbers of someone who can afford to do that. You don't have any debt. You've got the emergency fund of 25,000. you can spend another 45,000 and you've

still got plenty of money left over. Uh you've got a great income. It doesn't uh go against our rule. Rule of thumb here at Ramsey is we say vehicles shouldn't go shouldn't be more than half of your annual take-home pay. And and that's because, you know, vehicles go down in value. And so we want to make sure that we're limiting that. So you're not, you know, you're not going against that rule. I think this is just kind of a personal >> Yeah. Are you What's your emotion?

because you called us to get our take. What was your emotion about it? What did you think you should do? >> Yeah, it just felt like a lot of money.

Um I mean, >> well, it is it is a lot of money.

>> Whenever we you know, whenever we bought our house, we put 20% down. So, we wrote a big check then. Um you know, we paid cash for my wife's vehicle. We would pay cash for this one as well, >> right? No. Does But does the 35 >> our only debt, >> right? But my I'm leaning in here. Does the 35 feel way better to you than the 45 or is it very little difference?

Well, the main reason I called because the 45 is the truck that I want. The 35 is where my wife was coming from.

>> Right. No, I get it. But I'm I'm asking again, is there a different feeling in

your gut, in your head, however you want to measure it. Is there a different feeling about the 35 if I paid 35 for something versus 45? That's what I'm trying to understand, >> right? On my behalf, no sir.

>> Great. >> I'm very comfortable with the 45.

>> Right. my wife then. >> Okay. And that's what I thought. I thought there was And so that's the that's where the relationship stuff comes in. So now to me, and again I'm I'm speaking from a guy who's been married almost 28 years.

>> Uhhuh.

>> If Jade if Stacey and I are very

separate on 10 grand.

>> Uhhuh. >> I'm going to choose 10 grand less to be

in in a better situation. Maybe I would I would I would push it a little bit because >> of course >> I would because expense something being denoted expensive is all is all has to

do with ratio >> and correct >> I don't I yes but that you're discounting emotion >> mathematically yes >> now and and I would put that to her because obviously numbers and facts have the ability to affect emotions I agree >> and so if she doesn't have the right numerical facts >> that's Do you see what I'm saying? So, I would push that just a little bit. >> These are Yeah. Again, I'm not telling you not to do it.

I'm just giving you my take and I think that the what I'm trying to get out of that and I love that you push back on this because what I'm saying is then you got to cast vision better. >> Yeah, that's true. >> You're not casting enough to where she feels safe. For some reason, in her mind, she feels safe emotionally with 10 grand less.

>> True. >> So, we got to cover that. You got to fix that. >> Let me ask this cuz I didn't clarify this. Are these brand new vehicles or are these used vehicles?

>> These are used vehicles. >> Okay. Yeah, that Yeah, I I I hear what Ken is saying. What I My thought is this

is why you work so hard. You work so hard. I agree with that. >> And you stack up and you save and you scrimp and you do all these things so that the day finally comes where you look in the lot and you go, >> that's the truck I want. I get it.

>> I like that one. >> But when the wife is going, I don't think you need that one. This one's better. He's got to deal with it. Yes.

But at the same time, I'd be like, "Come on, woman. Don't kill my vibe because this is why I did all this." >> Only you can say that. Cuz any dude that's got half a brain doesn't look at his wife and say, "Come on, woman. Don't kill my vibe." >> I'm saying Chris, how comfortable are you? Numbers. Yeah. Chris, how comfortable are you saying that?

>> I'm going to rewind this and let Jade say it for me. >> That's my point. Which is, by the way, really smart. That's a pro move. Let Jade say it. I would rewind it. >> Okay. What What's What's your wife's name if you want to say it? >> Oh, boy. Uh Ashley, >> Ashley, this is this is you and me talking over lunch.

>> You know, you guys have done so well.

You got to live a little. This is what gives people gas in their tank when they get to take, you know, the the spoils of the war and go out and do something with it and have a good time. And by the way, Ashley, you you can get yourself a little something, too. That's what I think. I think you've earned it.

>> I'm backing away from the mic, Ashley.

I'm just saying they've done so well and they're doing so well. >> I'm having fun. I I agree with you actually. Uh that the the $10,000 if I'm

talking to Ashley, I'm going to go, let's walk through this. Let's walk through the 10,000 difference. Yeah.

>> You feel so comfortable with 35.

>> So, I want to walk through this with you. >> Let's let's walk through it and not minimize her feelings.

>> Let's walk through it. Uh and let her get all of her words out. Um, and instead of having a counterpoint to her words, ask a question in response.

>> There you go, Ken. You're so diplomatic.

I love it. >> Well, it it's not diplomat. It's It's just psychology 101. And I think she for

some reason doesn't feel safe. She's going to get to watch this and I actually think she should watch it because I think she'll see our heart. We're having a little fun with it. Uh, but yeah, I think it's fine for you to get the $45,000 truck. Just We spent all this time talking about these trucks. What are the two trucks? >> Yeah. Uh it's a uh one of them is a 2022

uh Ford F-150 King Ranch uh and the

other one is the same at 2019 uh and a

little bit difference on the mileage as well. >> Right. So the 2022 is the $45,000 one.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. >> You know, I haven't seen these newer King Ranches, but I I had a friend who had a King Ranch when they first came out. That is a nice truck. It's nice.

>> And I'm not a truck guy. If I showed up in a truck, people be like, "What happened to you?" Oh, I'd be concerned.

But everybody in the studio is like shaking their head like, "Yeah, that's the one." >> Yeah, I Yeah, I think that's a good move. So, hey, I think uh her favorite

dinner, her favorite restaurant, >> her favorite cocktail, >> maybe a gift. >> Maybe a gift. And And dude, woo her on

this truck.

>> That's not manipulate. That's woo.

>> Wooing. >> That's a big difference. And I think I think if you woo, you're going to go woo woo when you get that big old King Ranch truck. Thanks for calling, man. I appreciate it. And hey, to the rest of you, thanks for being with us. Remember this, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 274. You Have To Clean Up Your Financial Mess Before Building Wealth | October 1, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRtkM_iPqAs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:05:38 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

The phone number here is8825-55225.

Leslie is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi Leslie, how are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thanks for taking my call. Um, I have a dilemma. I'm recently married and

I'm selling my home and move I've moved

in to his home on his family farm that's

been in the family for a hundred years.

We need to put a new house on the property. We are looking to spend about $150,000 on that. However, I am hesitant to go

into debt on a mortgage on a property

that is going to be 100% willed to his grandson.

>> Uh, >> it's likely that >> I'm sorry. >> That he'll >> Yeah. So, he's going to he's going to he's going to leave the property to his grandson. What's that going to leave you in?

nothing. I mean, I can stay there, you

know, but I know 100% that I won't want

to stay there after he passes.

>> And it's likely that the mortgage will still be in existence cuz he's a he's

like 11 years older than me.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'd be paying on a mortgage for a house that I'm giving away to someone else.

>> Yeah. Well, that doesn't work, does it?

>> It doesn't. What what should I do?

>> What should he do?

He's in this, too. I mean, he wants to leave this land to his uh grandson, and

I that's kind of understandable if it's been in the family for generations. I get that. But also, making your new wife homeless is not understandable.

>> Yeah. >> Or or mortgaged up to her eyeballs. How old is he?

>> 57.

>> And how old are you?

>> 46. >> Okay. >> So, 10 year difference there. And have you talked to him about the idea of it passing to you first and then it then you turning around and willing it to the grandson when you pass?

>> Yes, he would do that. The thing is I don't want to stay there because it I have no family there, you know, it's I would want to move closer to where like my family is. It's like out in the country. I wouldn't want to be there by myself and >> health wouldn't be able to >> do you see this happening relatively soon?

Um, no. I mean, I hope not. Obviously,

>> this could be 30 years.

>> I I guess that's what I'm saying. You're willing to live there 30 years. 30 years

>> and and all those people that you want to move towards, they might not even be there then. >> Yeah.

>> So, um >> I think you just don't want to live on that land.

>> I kind of think you don't either. I I think I'd buy I'd buy a couple acres across the street and build a house there that is yours and his together.

and then the family farm is intact to be left to his grandson >> and uh it's not interfering with you all building a life together. >> I think the problem is when you tried to build a life together on something that is not going to be yours and that's where it got complicated. So I think you got to build it somewhere else.

>> Yeah. The problem is we would have to spend a lot more money if we did that.

>> Well, when >> like closer to double double the amount of money. >> Why? >> No. No, not double because the land is

not unless you're going to buy a whole bunch of land.

I mean, if you bought one acre across the street, it's not anywhere near double.

>> Well, to and to put a house on it.

>> Well, you're going to put a house on it anyway.

>> Yeah, but it it would be like 300 to 400,000. >> You're going to build a house anyway.

The only difference is the land under it, >> right? We're h remember we're trying to help you solve the problem. When you called, you said the problem is if I live on this land, it's not going to be mine. So that was problem number one.

You want something that's yours and you want to be able to get to your family when the time comes. So you want the freedom to be able to sell it, do whatever. So we're trying to help you accomplish that because the other option is you move elsewhere closer, I don't know, closer to your family and buy something there, right? That's the other option in the complete other direction.

>> Okay. So either way, the point is either way you're going to have to spend some money. >> Does he live on property now?

>> Yeah, we live in the old farmhouse that is beyond renovation.

>> Okay. Yeah. I I can tell you what I would do. I would move off of the property to somewhere else and I would

rent out the old house that's beyond renovation until it's beyond rental even and just let the property sit there and it's going to his grandson. I would not combine your lives on that property.

>> I'd let that property be what it is.

It's legacy generational property and you're tangling up two things. You're trying to accomplish two goals with one piece of property and it can't do it.

>> You're asking it to do too much.

>> Yeah. It's almost the equivalent of like you marry a guy and he's got like his bachelor pad apartment and he wants you to move into the apartment and you're like, I don't really want to live here.

I'm only doing this to make you happy.

Right? And then he goes on, he's like, you're not going to still live in the bachelor pad. Do you want to live where you want to live? You want a a foundation that you start together where you both feel like this is our home where we live together. >> Yeah. The only other thing I could do is you could plat off one acre off of the family property, build the house on that one acre >> and that one acre is deed to you,

>> not to the grandson.

>> But it would be tough to get >> and then and then you sell that. If you want to offer it to the family when you get ready to sell it before you sold it to the public, that's fine. But when he dies, you're going to move anyway. By the way, wherever you move to when he dies, you're going to move according to you.

>> But that's also the assumption that 30 years later, the grandson is going to want to keep up this land and wants the land, right? >> 30 years later that the family you're going to move next to are still alive, >> right? There's a lot there. >> Yeah.

So, you know, we're really really really But I think you are wise to recognize that this is not a good system. It's not a good plan.

>> I would do something different. So, you know, carve off an acre. That way, you could sell that acre in that house when you got ready to leave and after he passes and the family loses one acre of the family farm. Um, if the family farm

is two acres, then I guess that's a big deal. But if it's a 200 acres, it's not a big deal. So, um, you know, decide how

that's going to work and then, um, or literally go across the street off the family farm and build something. I don't care what you do. >> And be smart about where you plot it out. If you pull it out smack dab in the middle.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to do that.

>> The corner. The corner. Yeah. Off in the corner.

And And um that way it doesn't harm the value of the property and it doesn't leave you with something that's not marketable when you get ready to sell. >> Right. Right. >> So yeah, you but some but just the you're correct in that going forward with the plan that's on the table is a bad idea.

>> Um it's not going to end well >> sooner, later whenever this is. I mean, the grandson could be really old >> by the time you're really old. >> Also true. >> You know, I mean, it's um he's 57, so this grandkids probably six.

>> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. And so 30 years from now, he's 36 or 40 years old when when papa dies.

Yeah. I mean, that's a whole different thing. >> Yeah. And he might decide he doesn't want the land. He sells it to somebody.

Now, suddenly, you don't like your neighbors.

>> You know, there's a lot a lot can happen in 30 years. >> Mhm. you know, >> and a lot will happen >> in 30 years. That's very interesting.

Very interesting. Good question. But you're you're recognizing I think the bottom line is you're asking this piece of property to do things it cannot do.

>> It can only do one. It can only do one of the two things. It can't do both.

>> And so you're not going to be on the property if you're wise.

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[Music]

Karina is in Washington. Hi Karina. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

I have a question. I'm trying to figure

out the best way for me to proceed. So, earlier this year, I had picked up a second job because I wanted to save up for a house. And that's what I've been

doing thus far. And I learned that my current second job actually offers a Roth 457b.

And so now I'm wondering, should I put more money into my 457b so that when I leave I can roll it over into my Roth IRA or if I should continue saving all

my money for a house?

>> I'd save all your money for a house.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Are you you got your emergency fund in place and you're debtree, right?

>> Correct. >> Okay. And you're going to save up your down payment and then you're going to start your retirement savings. Correct.

>> Yes. How far how far are you until being

done with the down payment? >> How long would it take you?

>> It really depends. In our area, houses are pretty pricey, so they average about 500K and I have saved up 83K.

>> Oh, good. Okay. So, when do you think you're going to buy?

Um, originally I was thinking um that I would get a mortgage, but a month ago a co-orker of mine turned me on to the Dave Ramsey show and I read your book and started looking at your YouTube videos. And so originally I was thinking probably, you know, this fall or, you know, in the winter, but now I'm starting to think maybe I should wait another year, save up, and then either put a bigger down payment or whether I should wait for about four years and just try to buy a house in cash.

>> Wow. What's your income?

Um, originally I had started with about 70K and right now it's probably going to be about 160 with a two jobs.

>> 160. >> That's great. >> Correct. >> Wow. Nice bump from 70. What' you do?

>> Um, I am in biotech and I have an IT

job. >> So, what are you thinking? You'll live on 60. Is that the plan? And then in four years you'll have 500.

>> That's kind of what I'm hoping for.

Interesting. I I mean, I'm never going to discourage you from paying cash. Just know it's a moving target. So, there's part of me that says if I can get in the game earlier, I'm getting in the game earlier. So, just think that through.

>> Yeah. I I think I would go with your plan, but if this if the market starts moving on you, you maybe can jump >> in with the 300K down payment or something if you had to. But let's let's let's work your plan for right now.

>> I love that. >> That's very cool. Good for you.

Congratulations.

That'd be very sweet place to be.

>> That's We need more people with that mindset, I think. >> Talk about hustling, man. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Mike's in Pennsylvania.

Hey, Mike. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, so thanks for taking the call. I have a pretty basically my situation here is I'm going to be receiving an annual bonus in a month, a few months, and I'm trying to decide what is the best use um for the cash. So current situation I have um a little more than a

emergency fund in the bank. I have about 50,000 in cash right now. About 25 of

which I would say is emergency fund related. And I'm going to be getting a bonus of 60,000 gross. So probably about

40,000 after taxes. Um between my wife

and I, we have about 50,000 in student loans. And then I have the only other debt we have is two mortgages. So, I have a um rental property that was originally my primary residence that I have about 80,000 left on and then I have my current primary residence that I have about 240,000 on.

>> Mh. >> Um and the simple thought was put the

money toward the student loans, pay them off completely, >> but the rate on my current mortgage is about 7%. Whereas the rate on my uh

rental mortgage is about 3.6 six and my student loans are at about five.

>> Well, you'd still have >> when I look at the long term. Yeah.

>> No, no. When you look at the long term, you're wrong. You look at the long term, you got to get rid of the stupid student loans. You're not going to prosper as long as you keep those things around.

This is not an investment strategy. This is stupidity. And you got to clean it up, >> right? So, the student loans was the that was the first one where I assumed that's what I should probably put it towards.

>> You're right. You assumed correctly. And then you'll still have uh you'll still have a little bit because like you said your emergency fund is inflated. So you'll still have a good chunk that >> I'd take 25 and put on student loan today.

>> Uh-huh. >> And when the bonus comes in, pay off the rest of student loans. >> That's right.

Your primary. Is that what you're trying to do? >> Yeah. Well, I'd have the primary mortgage and the rental mortgage. The primary just has a much higher rate. So, while I would assume like typically I would have paid down the rental, but the primary is a much higher rate, so I'll just have more savings for putting it toward that. >> What's the balances on the primary and on the rental? >> The the primary balance is about 240.

The rental is about 80. Um, and the rental is probably worth about 175 and the primary is only worth about 290ish.

>> Is the rental local?

>> They're both local. Yep. I manage the rental myself. I've had that for about seven years now. >> Good for you. Okay. I would clear the student loan, then I would clear the rental and I'd refinance the primary.

>> Okay. So, you would go toward the rental first after student loans. Okay. >> Just because not because of anything except it's just only 80 grand and you're going to knock it out cuz I smell a $200,000 income, don't I?

>> Yeah. I'm right around 160 right now before the bonus. And the bonus is annual, but it's not guaranteed. But I I typically do receive it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so you're you're making 200k on average and almost like I've done this. And so, um, yeah. Yeah. With

200k, you're going to knock the 80 off pretty quick >> as well with you're sitting there with your emergency fund, refinance, get rid of that seven and some change because you can get a 5.7 right now on a 15 year. >> Yeah. >> Once the rental's gone, how much will you clear in profit every month? Just curious.

>> It's 2,200 a month right now. Gross rent. >> Yeah. Sweet.

So, so you're probably making 1,500 bucks a month, give or take whatever your property taxes are in Pennsylvania, which I don't know, but Yeah. Yeah.

And >> and that that's another >> what another 20,000 bucks a year that you can throw at >> at the primary. >> At the primary, but yeah, I'm going to refinance that primary because you're going to it's going to be more than two or three years before you get it paid off. And I want to get that rate down because that rate is a little bit jacked. >> But yeah, but here here's the thing.

when you're paying off debt, folks, really really fast like we are with this

student loan almost instantaneously and with the um the the inter on the uh the

uh >> the whole thing here is not even five years, >> right? >> The whole thing. Okay. And so when you're doing all that, then interest rates, the shorter the period of time in which you're going to pay off the debt, the less interest rates matter.

The only time interest rates matter is when you're playing them out 20 years, when you're playing them out 10 years, playing them out five years. But when you're paying off in four months, it's irrelevant. >> Negligible >> almost.

Cash flow is your problem, >> right? >> That's what you're leaning in on. So, good stuff. Dylan is in Fort Worth. Hey, Dylan.

>> Hey, Dave. It looks like I got the perfect duo today. I got the payoff debt queen and the real estate master. So happy to be back on again. It's been a few years. So my wife is listening. Um so we have a new surprise coming that

was very unexpected of a baby in of

course 9 months. So we bought our home

for 420 probably close to two years ago.

So we're not quite past that capital gains mark yet. Um if we were to sell it

now we're probably looking at 420 430.

Uh we owe 388. Um, I have a feeling I

know what you're going to tell me to do.

Um, we have 62 left in student loans and

that's from myself and my masters um,

from years ago. It's now been lingering like a pet for 10 years. Um, I think our big question is we're trying to reduce that monthly cash and increase that monthly cash flow. If we could be going

from like 3560 a month down to like 2500

to 2,800 which is what we see rentals going for the around here. Um probably a

game changer with cash flow. We could then throw all that in debt, stockpile money, go into stor mode until baby comes. >> What's your income? >> We've also seen what's your monthly take home pay? >> I have very irregular. So >> on a on a on a regular month >> quarterly, >> what do you make? What do you make a year? >> Six grand. >> What do you make >> this year? Will probably be about 150 for me, about 70 for her.

>> If a regular month is six grand, then yeah, you got to get out of this house. It's 50 is more than 50% of your take-home pay.

>> But 6 grand is not 150 plus 60. So those

numbers don't add up. So, um,

hang on. We're going to come back to you because I can't figure out what the flip you're doing. Hold on.

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[Music]

All right, we're talking to Dylan uh who's got a baby on the way. Surprise.

It's awesome. And um we're trying to figure out exactly what's going on. If I remember, your house payment was 3,500 bucks. Is that right?

>> Yes, sir. And uh as my wife just text me, a baby wasn't a surprise, but we weren't sure if we were going to be able to have one. So, Got it. >> Um we were uh we were texting offline and we're roughly around 9 to 10,000 take-home pay a month. It's just I get paid commissions quarterly. So like every four months we have a big surge of like a 10 to $15,000 commission >> above the 9 to10k or that included in

the 9 to 10k. >> Correct. No, above above.

>> So you get 9 to 10k plus you get quarterly of around 15k

>> I'd say. So yeah. >> So you're averaging about 15k a month.

>> Yes. So the way I kind of have to budget it out is I kind of have to have those syncing funds ready. um to kind of know

what's what's coming over, you know, until the next quarter hits.

>> Well, that that may or may not be, but either way, what is your question is?

Can you afford this house? Yes, you can afford this house. Why are you wanting to move?

>> I think it's just that that monthly is so tight on us that it's not tight.

>> It's because you're not on a budget. >> It's not tight. >> I think >> you make $15,000 a month. You have a

$3,500 house payment. That's not tight.

>> Well, and I think it's only feels tight due >> because you're trying to live without and act like your commissions aren't real.

>> Probably true. >> Yeah. So, your commissions if you Let's pretend for a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's pretend for a second.

Let's pretend you got your commissions in your hand, $15,000, and you said, "I'm going to allocate $5,000 for each

of the next three months. I'm going to pull from that commission p bucket." >> And I'm going to put $5,000 on my $10,000 income. That's making me have $15,000 income for the next three months. Then when your next commission check comes in, you do the same thing.

You're trying to do this backwards, looking in the rearview mirror rather than looking out the windshield like I just outlined because you've not gotten ahead of it yet. When you do that, this is not going to feel tight at all.

>> Yeah. And I have been dropping each big check onto a truck painter. So, >> yeah. You're just acting like you're acting like you don't get those checks.

>> It's not even part of your budget. >> And the problem is that's leading you to a faulty decision on the house cuz you're acting like you can't afford the house. you can afford the house. If you don't want the house, that's a different issue. >> Mhm. >> You can, you're, you know, you're you're obviously a free person. You're allowed to sell the house if you want to. But not because I I I, you know, pretended

like a third of my income isn't there.

>> Yeah. So, for that for that first quarter, it's not there. And then when you receive it, then you can say, "Okay, for the next quarter, like you said, you're putting that 5,000 per month." >> Yeah. Or if you get if you get 18,000, it's 6,000 a month.

>> But now you're ahead of it. It's just that first quarter when you're not ahead of it. >> Yeah. You just got to say that.

And so you have three If you start my plan, you have three more tight months. >> That's right. >> And then you'll never have a tight month again. >> Yep.

>> It's the same thing with normal budgeting. When you get paid on the 30th, the 30th check goes to the next month.

Yeah. You can't wait to pay your house payment till the end of the month.

>> So yeah, you got to get ahead of it on all of this. Just a little a one month cash flow or in this case a threemonth because it's a quarterly commission check. That's right. So then you've just got to decide, do you want this house?

Do you like this house? Um,

so I I think what happened here is is the announcement of the child made you go, "Oh, we've got to really start." Yeah, you're Yeah, you do have to start now. That's good. That's really good.

Get get your get every We're going to give you a year of Every Dollar as a baby celebration. And uh I want you to

get in the new improved Every Dollar cuz it's going to guide you through everything. And it's um but you get ahead on the syncing funds, not behind them, right? And then quit ignoring the fact that you actually make this commission because you're throwing 100% of it at something else.

>> Um and no, we can't do that. So we it goes all goes into the plan. Then you

work the baby steps from the plan. And while doing that, you look at the ratio of your house payment and say, "Okay, I can afford this house. I choose not to." >> That's right. That's right. >> But it's not because it's in air quotes tight. >> That's right. Okay, now I feel better.

Nate is in Witchah, Kansas. Hey Nate, how you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you, sir?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My wife and I went through bankruptcy last year and into early this year because we just made an absolute mess of ourselves financially. And

um at the start of this year, we really decided to focus and commit ourselves to getting out of the rest of my student loan debt, which is all we have left.

and trying to live really disciplined.

We lost our car last year when we went through bankruptcy, obviously. Um, and

we've been just driving an absolute beater and we're trying to make it work.

Um, my daughter just turned three last month and I'm feeling very grateful for that and she's healthy and happy. Um,

but I'm just trying to maintain hope right now because it's it's it's hard.

It's so hard to stay disciplined, to stay focused, to not give into the

temptation to go back into debt, to have a nicer car so things are a little bit more reliable. >> What's your household income, sir?

>> Just under 70.

>> And how much is your house payment?

>> Uh, we're renting right now. It's uh just under a thousand. >> Okay. All right.

All right. And are you still putting money into your 401k?

>> Uh, no. I was pretty undisiplined through my 20s. Uh I just turned 31 uh

couple weeks ago. Uh we don't have any money in retirement yet. >> You're not putting any money out of your check into retirement?

>> Not yet. As soon as we get out of debt.

>> And how much student how much student loan debt do you have?

>> Just over 20,000.

>> Okay. All right. >> We've paid off about eight so far this year. >> Okay. the the um the thing is that that

you're facing the math is not as much of a problem as the emotions. Okay.

>> Right. And I know I know I'm just being emotional. >> Well, I mean it's it's you've been through hell and there's a shame that

goes with bankruptcy. It's um you're like labeling I'm a money failure, you

know, and you're not. Uh but you know, for a moment there you were, but you're not that way forever. And we're not going to stay that way forever. So, um,

uh, I remember how it shook my confidence when I went through that. And that's just very real. So, okay. Now, how do we fix that? Well, we need some quick wins. We need some small wins and that starts to build our confidence up.

And, um, the best place to do that is a budget. >> Don't you think, Jade? >> Yeah, >> I agree. Yeah. I I mean, I agree wholeheartedly.

So, I would um get your get, you know,

we again we'll give you every dollar for a year and it's the new improved every dollar and so it's going to guide you through the baby steps, but what you've got to do now is say, "Okay, we're going to look at the money coming in every month." Do you are you getting a tax refund?

>> Not much of one. I I set up my taxes so I don't end up giving the government a free of interest free loan.

>> Good. So you so you've done a lot of the things already that where you can find some margin. Every dollar will help you find some more margin. And um but with a

$1,000 house payment, you you've got some margin in this >> cuz you don't have any other payments now except the student loan. And so you

know, our first goal is to save $1,000.

Our next goal is start knocking off the student loan, making 70. You can probably do that in about a year if you live on beans and rice. And uh what your

confidence will come not because the

magic wand waves and gets rid of the student loan, but when you start being in control of your money instead of it being in control of you.

>> The hard the hard part is you're uh doing something that you've never seen done before, right? So we're you're attempting to pay off debt to become debtree and you've never been there before. And so the natural inclination is to say, I'm going to go back to what I know. That's the comfort zone.

Even though it's not good for me, even though it got me in bankruptcy, that's why you're like, you know what? I let me just go back to credit card debt. Let me just go back. And you're you're fighting yourself because you're you're heading towards a truly a brand new frontier for you.

And so, what you need is to keep engaging with people who have done it before so that it becomes more and more real to you and you can see it and it starts to become a normal reality.

Is that fair?

>> Definitely. So, keep engaging, keep being around here, watching these shows, listening to these debtfree screams. Get on social media, follow Rachel Cruz, follow Dave Ramsey, follow myself, and you're going to this is going to become normal to you what we're talking about.

And that's what you need so that it doesn't feel like this foreign thing that no one's ever done before.

[Music]

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It's pretty incredible. Carl is in Cincinnati. Hey, Carl. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Um, I'm calling here um under

some pretty crazy circumstances. So, uh, first off, I'll tell you my situation. I am a 100% disabled veteran from the Iraq

War. And um my income is strictly from

those sources. It's fixed. It goes up when the government decides to give us an increase, but that's about it. And I've navigated a lot of things quite

well, I know. Um my wife died a month

ago. >> Oh my gosh.

>> And uh yeah, it's been traumatic for my family. Um >> what happened?

>> She had a stroke in her sleeping to everything that happened. >> How old was she?

37 and she had a heart defect, but we didn't expect this to happen.

>> I'm so sorry. >> Goodness.

>> Wow. >> Um, we lost about 40% of our income when

she passed. And, um, gracefully, we at

least had some life insurance, which was just two years of her salary split evenly between her youngest, our youngest, and myself. Um, because of

that, I was already in the middle of the Dave Ramsey plan at the time and because

I wanted to do the right for my kids and set ourselves up and economize. We are

debtree other than our mortgage. Um, we

have six months of savings set up set aside largely due to because of that life insurance. Um, and I am just trying

to figure out with my income, which is about 81,000 a year. Just strictly that

trying to live comfortably while saving

for my son's future. Um, both my boys

got education benefits guaranteed to them so we don't have to worry about that. Um,

>> I want to try to invest.

>> How much? Stop. Stop a second. You're doing like 43 things at once and your wife just passed away.

>> Let's just calm down a little bit. Um >> yeah, >> I'm sorry, man. Um the

life insurance was how much?

>> Uh my share was 45,000 and the other was

Theodor's. And that's going to be in the certificate held until he's 18.

>> And how much is that?

>> About the same. About 45,000.

>> Okay. All right. And um so that was

structured wrong. Okay. Um

>> it was strictly through her work. It was a benefit through work. Yeah. >> Because of her heart defects, it was pretty hard to get her any insurance.

>> Yeah. But by structured wrong, I mean there should have been none left to the child in a certificate. That's horrible.

>> So you're treating the 45 as your emergency fund. Did I hear that right? I put that towards paying off um credit

card debt and the rest in the savings and economize economize. That's literally what I'm doing. >> Okay. And how much is your house payment?

>> 2,600 a month. And as soon as my lending

guy um a really dear friend of mine who works in the lending industry for veterans, he helped me get this house when I didn't have the credit to deserve it, but I got it anyway. Um, and as soon

as the rates are low enough for me to do an Earl, VA earl, I'm going to I'm going to lower the rate but not restart the loan. Um, that should hopefully bring me

down a few hundred a month once that hits. Um, but I can manage with what we

got right now. Um, >> okay. So, so if you got an $80,000 income, you have no debt except the house, you have some money in savings for you have some money in savings. You don't have to save for Theodore's future. You're fine.

My my thought was is I want to leave him something. I don't qualify for life insurance because of my disabilities.

>> I that is not my thought right now.

>> My thought right now is you get your house balanced. Quit worrying about saving for kids. >> Okay. He's got 45,000 bucks sitting there in a in a um and he's got free education because his dad served his country. Thank you for serving your country. Okay. And so that's all set. Uh and and he can make

his way. He'll be just fine. I'm worried. The way you leave him an inheritance is not by having a kid savings account. The way you leave an inheritance is you get yourself straightened out and you begin to build wealth for you over time. But right now,

the first thing you do is you just get balanced. You buy groceries, you keep the lights on, you pay the house payment, and you live on your income.

And you can do that.

It's just been easier to focus on that than to just sit and yeah, you know, idle time sucks. >> Yeah, I don't doubt that. I mean, it's waves of grief coming at you and catch you off guard at the at the worst possible time. But in terms of the math of your situation, don't try to make this do too much. The first thing is just live. Set up sustainable and that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, utilities. Um, you know, you're in good shape. you're you're not in a pinch.

Now, if you start trying to put, you know, 25% away for retirement and I'm going to put another $2,000 a month for for Theodore, you don't have that kind of room. That's not an option.

>> You did have survivor benefits that are going to start this month and I want to invest that. That's what I want to do.

>> Well, if if and only if your dad gum budget is balanced.

>> Got it. >> Okay. If you do so much investing that you call me stressed out, then you're just you you're overanalyzing this.

>> How much is her benefit going to be when that pays?

>> Uh 1,600 a month divvied up between the two of us.

>> Divvied up between the two of you.

>> How old is Theodore?

>> Hello.

>> I think we lost him. must have. All

right. Yeah, that's >> There he was. >> Well, okay. Anyway, yeah. So, uh it

shouldn't be divvied up between the two of you. There's a survivor benefit that should go to you. >> Mhm. >> Shouldn't go to a minor child. So, um but even if it does come to him, it's for his care and we're going to use it in the budget for his care. >> Right. You're the >> So, we're going to take care of the household. Let's get the household going. Then we'll start worrying about investing. Breathe. Give yourself a give yourself six months to cry, man. I mean, 37 years old. Oh my god.

>> It's just a month ago.

>> Just give yourself a Let's just get this budget to where we're not going in the hole. We're not having a problem and we're just everything's running smooth and we'll worry about investing a little bit later. You got time. You're you're okay. You got plenty of time. We'll get to investing six months from now. But for right now, let's just see how big a pile of cash we can pile up and living on the income that we have coming in.

>> Right. Right. >> That just keep it real clean, real simple, >> and then give that gives you, you know, if you don't want to add financial stress to grieving. >> Yeah.

Well, like you said, >> since you don't have to >> trying to give him he's giving himself something to do when really there's not much to be done. >> I really wouldn't. I'd find a different hobby. >> Yeah.

>> Than screwing around with his money stuff right now. Mhm.

Then you can talk about doing investing at that point. That's how I would do it.

>> Wow. So, um, couple of pointers then, uh, across the board, you always need to be in touch with Xander insurance and get term life insurance. A and you need 10 to 12 times

your income on you if you're insurable.

Now Carl's not insurable. His wife uh may not have been either because she they may have already detected the heart. Matter of fact, he said that cuz he done it through work. >> But for the rest of you, >> you're walking around out there and you're 37 uh within without any medical

issues. For the cost of a pizza, you can

get 10 to 12 times your income.

>> And so you're making 50 grand. and you put 600 grand on you >> and it's for people who are dependent on your income if somebody if something happens to you cuz all the time people are like I'm taking a policy out on my kid. I'm like no no >> you got it twisted. >> No you put it out on you and and 600k

and 15 to 20 year level term insurance

and Xander insurance can help you do that. They've been doing it been a Ramsey uh endorsed Ramsey trusted for God 30 years and we've been sending people over there and uh you need your life insurance in place if you can. Now Carl's family was not able to but that call can remind some of the rest of you to get your get your stuff done. Make sure you're lined up.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Kayla is in Virginia. Hi, Kyla. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing pretty good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay. Uh, see if I can get through this without crying. Um,

so I recently separated from my husband because of abuse.

Okay, I'm good. Um, and I'm currently living with my parents in Virginia, but my husband and I originally lived in a different state, so I'm going to have to go back there um for custody season soon. And I was

wondering, obviously, I'm not moving back in with my husband. Um, is it

smarter for me to get a cheaper apartment that's around the onebedroom that's around uh $600, $700

um for me and my two-month-old? or is it

better for me to get a uh two-bedroom apartment because I work from home? And I'm just wondering what's more important, paying off my debt as fast as possible or um keeping up my mental

health with just having more space and a space for the baby versus a space for my work. >> How much debt do you have?

>> I have about uh 32,000 in student loans.

um 6,000 and 6,000 in credit cards.

>> 6,000 credit cards. >> And um so how much uh what does he make

a year?

>> He doesn't make anything. He's a student. Um and so honestly, I don't know how he's going to pay for our current house. He uh was insistent on keeping it and I kind of want to stick it to him and see him struggle because I know he won't be able to afford it. >> Your name's on the mortgage, too, honey.

>> It's a a rental. Oh, your name's on the

lease also.

>> I explain everything to my landlord. Um, and he understands what >> Yeah, I bet he understands. Your name's on the lease. Unless he Unless he understands by giving you a Unless he releases you from liability in writing,

your landlord didn't understood nothing.

>> Okay. What's your >> So, I don't know. I'd be careful about sticking it to him with your name on there. Okay. Um, now what do you make

again?

>> Um, I make 20 an hour. I think it's about 40k.

>> Okay. >> There's part of me that I I would really focus on getting your situation financially cleaned up. And if you're able to live cheaply for $600, I would do that, especially while your baby's young and you guys can kind of huddle up in a onebedroom. And then if you can clear out some of this debt, then the time can come where you can move to a two-bedroom.

But I think now's the time while the baby's little and doesn't take up a lot of space. Now, you said mental health, I'm guessing, because living and working and sharing a room all in one space, that's claustrophobic.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you've been in a domestic violence situation, so you got a whole different issue on mental health. Mhm.

>> You've been dealing with a 10 out of a 10 on mental health. The baby being in the room is a two out of 10. >> Yeah. I think you're going to feel relief. >> So, yeah. You're Are you talking about moving back to that city because of custody?

>> Um I don't know about the same city, but the surrounding areas um within 30 minutes. >> Okay. Are you going to be >> rural area? So, are you going to be are you going to be safe?

>> Uh I think so. It was um emotional and verbal abuse. It wasn't physical thankfully. Um, >> but he is violent and so that >> it just depends. Um, like he he would break things. So I I really don't know what he would do if he found out where I lived. But >> Okay. Yeah. So here here's the thing.

You're coming through uh an absolutely horrible situation. And so you've got

some spiritual recovery to do, some emotional recovery to do, and some financial recovery to do. Agreed.

>> Yeah. And so the last thing you need is right now is to have be spending any money on uh an extra bedroom. So right

now I'm with Jade. Let's keep everything as cheap as possible. Um how long have

you been with mom and dad? How long have you been there?

>> Two weeks. >> Okay. How much longer do you plan to stay there?

>> Um, we're meeting with some lawyers tonight to um figure out how long I can

stay um without him being able to charge

kidnapping or anything which you threaten. >> Yeah, he can't. Well, so well, yeah, let your attorney advise you on that. And I would recommend you stay with your parents as long as you can, like for a couple months if you can. And during that time, I want you to pile up cash.

Okay? Don't pay down debt right now. I want you're in the middle of a storm. I want you to pile up a big old pile of cash for attorneys and for deposits on

apartments and all that kind of stuff.

Okay? Then once you get settled and you've got a divorce underway, you get

settled on the cheapest possible apartment, then and only then will we turn loose on these debts.

>> Now, if you haven't cut up the credit cards, you need to cut them up. Okay.

>> They're cut up. >> Good. Good. >> Yeah. I've been trying to pay him off, but my husband was for some reason against going ham on paying off our debt. >> Oh, it's real easy. Know why that was?

He was trying to control you. Yeah, >> that's a control mechanism. So, >> yeah. So, what we're going to do is you're going to clean this stuff up after you get stabilized. And the way you get stabilized is you keep your housing cost as low as possible, utilizing mom and dad for the next one to six months. And after that, then and

only then as the divorce progresses and and only when the lawyer says you absolutely have to move back into the market, do you move back to the market and you do the cheapest thing you can then and you clear the debts and you pile cash. clear the debts and pile cash and pile cash in the meantime because that if you had $15,000 saved right now

>> and it was just a p sitting there in a pile it would give you a whole different comfort level than sitting there with no no cash and this other you probably wouldn't have even called us >> but because you'd have that much different of a feeling.

>> That's right. And that that's where I want you to get to first. Then we'll clear the debt and then we're going to be in an inexpensive uh temporary housing which is like for a year or two. Okay. It's not your whole life. It's for a year or two so that you get away from the jerk.

>> And um Wow. Pretty crazy.

>> That's that's um something I I um

good for you. Good for you for pulling away and for having the strength to do that. Good for your mom and dad to give you a safety net to land in. I >> agree.

>> Um and uh you know, and it sounds like you got your head on your shoulders. You're already seeking legal counsel. You're figuring out what you can do and can't do. >> Uh you sound like you've got a good support around you.

>> Yeah. >> Sucks people back into it over and over again. especially the more desperate they feel. >> Yeah. And control. That's the financial

control is um >> one of the things we learned 30 something years ago was when we see a guy that is 1,000% controlling every

ounce of the money, there's very often domestic violence included. >> Mhm. That's right. >> It's a symptom. It's a It's an indicator of um of what's going on. It's um not

100% but it's really close to 100.

>> Mhm. It's in the 90s. And so if the wife's not allowed to go to the grocery store without her husband, if she's not allowed to do anything, make any money decision without her husband, if she's not allowed to, he's got a complete death grip on every single dollar, there's usually domestic violence tied with that. So that's a little bit of what you were experiencing there, Kayla, where he was didn't want you out of debt cuz it gave him a power over you.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Chad in Washington. He says, "My wife and I follow the baby steps and are debtree except our house. Our net worth is 1 million and we owe $75,000 on a

house that is worth $750,000.

We are in our early 50s. When we got married, my wife had a $100,000 annual

salary. But when we had kids, we made the decision together for her to stay home and homeschool them. Fast forward 20 plus years, the kids are grown. We are doing well, but my wife is still not working. My income is $150,000 a year. I

have asked her to get a job for a few months to knock out the mortgage and build up a gap fund so I can retire a little early. We have plenty to live on, but I've noticed some budget drift as the kids don't require as much attention as they did when they were little. Is my wife a princess or do I just need an attitude change? Interesting.

Okay, so just to recap, you guys are millionaires. You owe 75,000 on the house. your wife has not worked in 20 plus years is what it sounds like. And now you're saying, "Hey, I could retire a little bit faster and we could pay off the house a little faster if she would just get a job." That's that's where we're at.

princess. I think there's something that maybe you guys need to do to work to meet in the middle. Um, I can understand you wanting to go a little faster on the house and I can understand you wanting to retire a little faster. Um, but I

don't necessarily I wouldn't go as far to call her a princess. I think you need to frame up the argument in a way that

she's also excited about it cuz whatever you've been saying in it's not, you

know, it's not she's not excited about it, so she doesn't want to do it. >> Yeah. Chad. Um, if we look up nerd in the dictionary, we're going to see your face.

Okay. You got you're completely dialed in here, bro. And uh that's good. That's good. That's that's what got you here.

But um yeah, you're you're 100%

concentrating on numbers, which is what I do. I that's how I know who what you look like. I know who you are. And um if you're not careful, you forget about relationships. No. Your wife is far from a princess. >> Yeah. >> Does she need to dial it in and get a little bit more serious and join the uh join the crusade to build some more the last little bit of wealth so that we can Yeah. Yes, she does. we tighten up that budget a little bit and we can uh but

does she have to necessarily go back to work to accomplish that? I don't think so. >> I think the budget is her that's been her thing for 20 plus years. So, if she can tighten up her end of the thing, which is uh managing the money at home, and if you can tighten up your thing, which is bringing in the money from outside, I think that's fair.

>> I mean, you manage the money at home together. You're going to do your budget. We're not going to do home economics, but no budget drift. We're not going to be drifting.

but I I I think I think you could dial it back a little and she could dial it up a little and like you said, meet in the middle. That's what it sounds like.

But, um, no. Uh, it it's neither. It's

not that you are completely out of line and need an attitude change and it's not that she's a princess. >> That's right. That's right. >> But, uh, I think you're making some valid observations from a nerd's perspective. And, uh, she's probably gotten just a little comfortable. >> That's true. >> And let's dial up the seriousness just a little bit. dial down the seriousness just a little bit and I think we'll find a really happy place right here.

>> You get, by the way, you guys have done great. Hello. >> Woohoo. >> Luke is in New York. Hi, Luke. How are you? >> I'm doing good. Dave, uh, much like you, I'm doing better than I deserve. How are you? >> Just the same, sir. What's up?

>> All right. So, I am 25. Uh, I just moved

back home from graduate school. I just got my master's degree. And you know, I listen to your show a lot and I know sometimes there's recent graduates on.

Um, but I guess I just needed like a refresher. Um, so you know, I'm having trouble in my job search. I know you always say to not just apply to a thousand jobs on the line without really talking to anybody. Um, but you know, I have kind of a niche skill set. Uh, I worked in the sports industry for a few years and I guess, you know, that's what I want to do and I guess I'm kind of being picky at this point, I'll admit.

Um, so I just kind of wanted to get like your advice or whatever on, you know,

handling a job search post-graduate degree.

>> So, what are you wanting to do in the sports industry?

>> So, uh, my masters was in data science, uh, sports business analytics, which, you know, I didn't just choose that degree. It was what I was doing out of school. Uh, I was working for a major sports organization. moved down to to get my graduate degree at a school that had, you know, pretty good sports and was working for their basketball team.

Uh, and you know, something in that field. I live around New York City, so obviously there's tons of opportunity for roles like that in other fields. Um, so I have kind of broadened my search in that sense. Um, but it's still just kind of been not the most fun process.

>> Yeah.

Well, you you're right. You're in a an epicenter of sports without a doubt. If you were going to be close to a whole bunch of teams, that'd be the place to be, right? Uh in all kinds of different things. Um and and yet having said that,

it's a fairly small pond you're fishing in. >> Yeah. >> So that means you've got to go one direction or the other to jog something loose. And one is you lower your expectations for salary and position and you take more of an entry level, get your foot in the door in a sports organization. Or two is you step outside sports.

>> Mhm. and you make what and you make what you think you can make. >> So, what is it you're what do what do you think that this position you're >> trying to get is worth.

>> Well, I guess that's kind of definitely part of it. I've definitely lowered my expectations in terms of salary. Um I would guess like the 85,000ish range, but at the same time, I'm not really locked into this area. You know, I just moved to Mississippi for school and for this job. So, you know, I'm not kind of I I'll kind of move wherever if the opportunity is right. And there's definitely, you know, a path to developing as a professional and developing my technical skills.

>> Um, but I'm just in a weird tweener spot where like I'm not entirely entry level.

And then for the jobs, you know, I I'm thankful to have gotten a interviews.

>> It might be it might be I think I heard language that you were using early in the conversation that it's possible you

are overvaluing the degree.

>> For sure. the uh like I got this degree and and and and you think that's going to be like the magic bullet, the silver bullet. The silver bullet, the secret sauce is Luke >> and what Luke learned while he was getting the masters. The master's degree has zero value in and of itself. Only

the knowledge that you put in your in your brain while you're getting the master's degree. Now, that knowledge has value.

So knowledge is valuable, but degrees are worthless.

>> So people people don't care what degree you got. They don't care where you went to school. What they care is did you learn something that you can use to help us move our process, our company, our

organization forward. And so if you'll concentrate on how you can add value, not concentrate on look at me, I got a masters. >> It's a good point. >> That might change your interview >> posture, the posture of your heart in the interview.

It's like, "Hey guys, I went back to get a master so that I could get really good at this data stuff, and I'm really good at this data stuff, and I can help you with your data analysis, and it's going to do this, this, and this, and I want to add value, and I'm excited, and I'm pumped up about adding value.

Super. I didn't know where you were going. Superman, Superman is here, right?" Right. And so, you know, like

Clark Kent and, you know, no, no, you don't don't don't, you know, you got to be real careful with a new degree that you worked really hard to get it and I'm glad you you got the knowledge.

>> Uh, but the then don't place too much emphasis on that. >> Plus, there's a certain level of, I don't know, ladder climbing with any position, right? you no matter what when you start out you're kind of at the low end of the totem pole and there's some building that has to be done um in your role right like you're building your personal brand and you're building your skill set and you're so there's that part of it there's a grunt work aspect all the time uh as you're building so that's just >> when we're doing our onboarding and stuff here that you know I want sometimes I'll swing in and sit in with the new team members inevitably when I ask question what's it take to get ahead at Ramsey I'm like well here's an idea be really good at your Yeah.

>> Add value. Add value. Make us really happy that we hired you.

>> And that's how you move ahead. We're very utilitarian. >> That's right. >> Most businesses are, by the way.

>> We really just want a return on our investment. >> It's that that's how this thing works.

>> And so, um, you got to got to you got to make us more than you cost us or we all go down, right? That's how this works.

So, how can I add value? How can I add value? And how can I in a very practical way hit the ground with my feet and get start running from day one.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Music]

Well, guys, big news. The Fed cut rates.

you know about that a couple weeks ago and the 15-year fixed rate mortgage of rates have dropped as well. Lowest lowest we've seen in about 11 months. If you're financially ready, it's a great time to buy houses because house prices have kind of been basically flat up a little bit. Uh buying an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent.

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or click the link in the show notes.

Tyler's in Toronto. Hi Tyler. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Jade. Uh I want to start by saying I'm a longtime listener. Uh and God bless both of you and your team for the work that you do. Uh it's made a great deal of difference in my life and I'm sure for many others. So thank you.

>> Thank you. How can we help you today?

Well, I'm calling because uh my wife and

I, we are both 30. We've been together

six years, and we are currently on baby step three, but we are stuck. Uh we're

stuck on step three because we have been

working at gazelle-like intensity for the last 5 years or so. Uh and we

between the two of us, we have two full-time jobs and three part-time jobs.

and I'm calling to ask for help on what advice you would give to boost a household income uh so that we don't have to be working 70 to 80 hours a week

each because I'll be honest we we work

conscious and hard and we love each other but we are tired.

>> Yeah. >> Sounds like you don't make any money.

>> Yeah. What are you making? >> Well, so part of we live just outside Toronto so we are in an ultra high cost of living area.

our our monthly budget, which we have followed dutifully since we moved in

together four years ago. Uh we so our

monthly expenses total including everything uh is about $6,800.

>> And we make and between the two of us,

we bring in about $105,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what did you pay off during that five years of baby step two? Our total our total debt wasn't very high.

We only had about we only had about $8 or $9,000. So that hard part.

>> So if you don't get different jobs, you can't afford to live there.

>> Uh with our current ones, we can, but the compromise is no. Just on our full-time salaries, we can't.

>> Yeah, that's what I mean. You you don't make enough money to live there without working 70 hours a week and three part-time side hustles.

>> It's it's a cost of living thing. Mhm.

>> So, I mean, you you also can't live in Manhattan and you can't live in LA either. >> Yeah. What's keeping you in Toronto?

What's keeping you there?

>> Two reasons. Uh, one, all of our immediate family is here and and both of us are fairly connected with our families and churches. And I mean, we've lived here for 30 years. We just want to stay in our home. >> But I mean, is there a >> both of our both of our jobs are tied geographically. She is a a high school teacher. Mhm. >> And so she would lose her seniority and

her salary if we moved and I work as a

copy editor for a municipal company. So if I moved away, I would have to find another job. >> Right. But I do feel like both of you have jobs that you could find in outer

rings of Toronto, right? I mean, how far out from Toronto do you live currently?

>> Are you an hour outside of town?

>> Uh, yes. We already live in a suburb, but we I both of us have been looking for the last year and a half because we set a goal and said we're fed up with this. We want to get it so we have more time together and so we have been consciously applying, >> right? >> And I've had multiple interviews and two offers, but both offers were for less money than I currently make.

>> Well, there's going to be a cap. I mean, you you're going to you've got to go into this knowing for my job, for my career, here's kind of the salary cap.

Like, here's a generality of what I'm going to make. So just cuz you apply for more jobs doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be higher paying. And Dave made the Dave made the point if you

choose to live in Toronto, there are certain things that are going to go along with that price-wise. And you have to at some point say I can either afford it or I can't. I have family members who lived in LA for the longest. And they said the truth is even I'm a teacher and

the spouse did something else. If we work here for our pay, we will not be able to afford the lifestyle we want. We won't be able to buy a home. we won't be able to do XYZ.

And so because of that, they moved to Georgia where they could have that life. So you guys have to decide as a family what's more important, working 70, 80 hours a week to have this dream of staying in Toronto or having the picket fence and having some breathing room and being able to have, you know, whatever that is. You guys have to make that choice.

>> Ah, >> and get your income up. But you cannot, you know, you're you're right. The reason you're tired is that you don't see a way out. You feel like a rat in a wheel and because mathematically nothing's changing and you're smart enough to realize doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. So, >> um you know, you've got to change something if you want something to change. So, there's three possible

variables and you know, it's location

and um is one of them. And then the

second one is to change careers completely.

>> Um, and but I I I you know, I I feel for

you, but there's some things you just can't you know, you can't afford to live on $20 an hour >> in Manhattan, right? You're not doing it on $20 an hour, but you're trying to do it on about $40 an hour.

>> And so, and you just can't afford to live in Tokyo >> and London and Toronto and Manhattan. um

you just you can't make it there on that kind of income. So um I mean you you

guys are staying afloat, but you're doing it by just you got every finger stuck in the every hole in the dam and if you pull one out, the whole thing's going to flood out on you and you realize that. So I'm sorry, man. I wish I had a magic wand that would make it easy to do, but it's not. You you're going to you're going to change careers or you're going to change locations

>> and uh or you're going to work 70 hours a week, which I don't recommend. Mhm.

>> as a way of life. I don't mind doing that to get somewhere, >> but but I don't want to do that and say that's that's for the next 40 years what I'm going to do. >> Yeah. There's a cap on there's a cap on that and 5 years is a long time to be in

that mode. >> You you you don't only get physically tired, you get emotionally tired from doing it that long. >> You lose sight. You you lose sight.

>> Justin's in Illinois. Hi, Justin. How are you?

>> Good. How are you today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Awesome. Um, so yeah, I try to get right to the point. Um, I'm 48 and

in my 20s and 30 and in my early 30s, I never gave retirement a passing thought.

You know, the word 401k meant nothing to me. And so now that I am retiring, you know, I know you can't make up for lost time, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right things so that I, you know, hopefully I can retire someday and with a with a healthy retirement. And I just, you know, just want to run numbers by you and basically see what you think and, you know, what what I wish was to change. And >> are you out of debt except your house?

>> Uh, yes, completely. The house is paid for and debt. Very good. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, are you maxing out your 401ks, IAS, and so forth all in Roth?

>> Uh, yeah, but my 401k is in Roth. I do 14%, which is my company's max. I guess

I fall under their high earnner category. Mhm. >> So it's I'm at 14%.

>> How much is that? >> I understand at 50. Um I make about 140

a year. So it's you know 18 19,000.

>> Mhm. >> And even 1500 a month. And what else are you doing?

>> Um on top of that, the reason I'm not worried about that I'll the 401k that much is my company also has profit sharing >> which obviously fluctuates but the last two years it's been $30,000 good >> that they put into my 401k. Great.

What's in there now? What's the total nest egg?

>> Uh the total is right only right about 100,000. Okay. >> That's why I was, you know, calling you today making, you know, >> because they had a they had a financial adviser come in a few few months ago and just look at your numbers and see where you're at and he gave me some numbers for, you know, 15 years down the line and just >> I don't know compound interest. So I look at my numbers today and you know the numbers he gave me I'm like that's not right. You know, one of those deals.

>> Listen, I plugged I plugged it in. Now, if you work from your current age, 48 to 68, you've got 100,000 in there now. You put 1,500 in a month. Average rate annualized rate of return, 10%, you're at 1.8 million. That ain't too shabby.

There you go. If you want to get some more help, sit down with a Ramsey Smart Vtor Pro and they'll show you in detail

exactly how that works and how you're going to get there.

[Music]

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[Music]

Emily is with us in Detroit. Hi Emily.

How are you? >> Hello Dave. How are you?

>> Great. What's up?

>> Hi. Well, I'm calling with sort of a financial, moral, ethical, and biblical question allin one.

>> The reason I'm calling so my brother and I, we both work in ministry, different churches. We live in different states. He's clear across the country than me. Um, he and his wife, they have eight children. And their belief is that God called us to go forth and multiply. And they believe Christians should be having as many children as possible. >> Well, they are doing a good job of that.

>> Well, regardless of finances. So, their only income is my brother's pastor's salary. And as you may imagine, pastor's salaries, you know, no, nobody goes into ministry to, you know, make it big. Um, so he has actually said in podcasts and

interviews that if you have more children than you can afford to have, that qualifies you as the needy. And the

church and family members are called to help the needy. And so his solution to this is to be on state aid in addition to a salary. And his in-laws also pay them a stipend every month because they believe he's in ministry and they should be helping them with their bills. I think it's lunacy. I think it's crazy.

And I was just kind of curious what your opinion was of that. >> I completely agree.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah, that is not biblical.

>> I don't believe it's biblical either. And even though >> the Bible the Bible does the Bible does say to be fruitful and multiply, the Bible also says that those that won't take care of their own household are worse than an unbeliever.

>> I would 100% agree with that. And he and I are in the same denomination, but sometimes I wonder if we're reading the same Bible. Um, but my other question to piggyback on that is, do you think Christians in any capacity, whether you're a pastor or a firefighter or whatever, should ever be taking advantage of government, or as I like to call it, taxpayer funded aid.

Um, well, I'm not ready to throw rocks at everybody who ever does anything, but

um, obviously uh, we at Ramsay are are big on helping you prosper, and I've never met anyone

who prospers on government aid.

>> I would 100% agree with that. So, it's not an act of love for me to recommend that or you certainly wouldn't tell people to do it as a way of life because

it it's not good for them. Not not it's

not a it's not it's not as much a moral judgment as it's just loving the person and saying, "Gosh, I've never met anybody on welfare that had just a wonderful life." >> Um, you know, >> I would agree with that.

>> Consistency of staying on welfare.

>> Yeah. But but are you going to hell or are you a bad Christian if you go through a rough patch and the government helps you for a little bit? I'm not going to be that judgmental. I'll give you a break on that.

>> Okay. No, just perspective. Um and my other question was actually kind of on behalf of my parents. My parents are very generous people.

Um they fly out so they they live in Detroit with me, but they fly out to where my brother lives periodically, you know, to see the kids to keep up that relationship. And they're very generous when they're there. Um but when they are there, you know, they kind of have their limits on generosity. My brother will make comments like, "Gee, you know, my van needs new tires." And, you know, see these bald tires, it's not safe, or one of the kids lost their glasses, and you know, we just can't afford to repair them.

>> Um, so this is kind of my question. Is is there any good on that?

>> The thing is that there's not anything your parents are going to say or you're going to say is going to change your brother. He's made his decision. True.

It's very true. >> And so I'm either just going to love him where he is and disagree with him. I mean, I have relatives that vote wrong and I love him anyway, >> you know. And so, um, you know, that's

okay, you know, and and they think I vote wrong, so it's okay. And they love me still. So, but but now, you know, how much money am I going to pour into a situation like that? I >> Listen, there fixing the bald tires or replacing the lost glasses is not going to repair this situation.

It's bigger than that. >> Correct. And that's what the advice they've been given by other people is that's just a band-aid on it. But the tires are going to be an issue again.

The glasses are going to be lost again.

that guy and I'm not going to worry about it. But past that, the answer is no. And so, you know, when we go out here and visit, we're planning to drop $1,000 into kids stuff that they need right now because their dad's kind of a doofus. And so, um, you know, I'm just going to have that as my line item.

And then when it gets above that, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to do any more than that. >> Also, Emily, everything that you're talking about is not even a direct effect on you. You're talking about this is your brother. This is your brother and your parents deal.

So if I were you, respectfully, I'd just mind my own business because nobody's coming to you for money, right? >> It Well, it's her mom and this has not been said directly to me, but a good friend of mine is actually married to my sister-in-law's brother, and she has made many comments about how, oh gosh, they're in such bad, you know, straits financially. Everyone in the family, including, you know, myself and my husband, should be helping them. And I just think it's wrong.

I think you should be embarrassed.

>> And so, >> as an ongoing pattern, yes, but as an off thing. But yeah, but you know, again, somebody four degrees of separation away doesn't get a vote on what I do.

>> If they don't like that, I don't agree that that he has labeled himself needy

>> biblically and um and I don't agree with that label, so I'm not going to biblically step up and make him not needy. Mhm. >> Um, he's needy, but it's not money.

>> He needy a new job.

>> Careful. You'll get a jadism. You'll get a jadism dropped on you like a bomb.

>> You need a job. >> Oh, that's it. That's the deal right there. Yeah. Here's the thing. It is frustrating to watch people that you love, >> especially when they're taking advantage of people that you love and and it's not and they're not winning. But I'm also not going to get sucked into anyone else's guilt trip or I particularly resist um someone trying

to Christianize their guilt trip.

>> I know that's right.

>> So like we had a guy one time at the old office, Jay, this was funny. He came in and he was at the front desk and um I I

walked out. They said, "This guy's out here to see you." And I walked out front and he said, "God told me that you're going to give me a new van." And I said, "No, he didn't."

He said, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, he did." And I said, "No, he didn't." Cuz if God told you that I was going to give you a new van, he would have told me, "Okay, >> and there'd be a new van sitting out there with the keys in it." >> I know. That's right. >> If God told me to do it, that's what would have happened. But God didn't tell you nothing. You had bad pizza last night and you're blaming God.

>> And so, um, and then of course he starts cussing and screaming about how we're not real Christians and had a little duck fit right there on the floor and we had to have him removed. But um because you don't you don't challenge these God people when they're doing this stuff. So uh I mean crazy Christians give the rest of us Christians a bad name, y'all. I'm just saying.

So >> yeah, God told me that, you know, and so yeah, you're going to quote scripture that demands that you remove my private property from me.

job. That's it. Yeah. Wow.

And here's a sad thing. There's eight kids being affected by this. >> That's what I know. Yeah, that's tough.

>> That's tough. Now they're being raised by that and then they come then they can't figure out why they strayed away from the church. >> Exactly. >> Because they were raised poor because their mom and dad had decided to have a bad um biblical def series of biblical

definitions. >> Yeah. >> Um but I tell you, I do love the idea that that we ought to be fruitful and multiply. But um maybe we also ought to

raise our income while we're doing that.

That's >> right. >> So that we can feed them. That's supposed to be the kind of the thing goes with it. So I agree with you.

I agree with your frustration, Emily. But to Jade's point, there's not anything you're going to do about any of this. So this was just a discussion we all had cuz nothing changed at the end of this discussion. Nope.

>> Cuz we could give no one instruction >> in this process that's going to take the instruction. >> Yeah. If they wanted help, they would have called in. If the parents wanted help, they would have called in.

Yep. So, >> yeah. And so now you get to just sit on the sideline and be frustrated or just watch them and grin and go, "That's my brother." >> Yep. >> Yep.

That's him. That's the guy. I know that guy. >> That's the hardest part of all this though, when you see a better way and you know a better path and you just want that person to just >> you want it more than they do.

That's >> that's how we become enablers if we're not real careful or just really frustrated with family members either.

>> You're just sitting back there just meanwhile they're they're broke eating a sandwich. They don't care.

You know, >> they're broke eating a sandwich somebody else made. >> That's right.

>> That's right.

>> Media job. I can't believe you, Jake.

That was really good. That's good.

That's good. I like it. I'm going with that. I'm sticking with I'm going to steal that one. After about three more times, it'll be something I said.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Kayla is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Kayla, how are you?

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I had a question about term life insurance. Um, I've been listening about you saying that we need about 10 to 12 times our annual incomes. And I just I

guess from my point of view, it seems like that's very very high. And maybe I'm just like missing something in the calculations. And so I'm just hoping to kind of get an idea of like why why that number you pick? >> That's a great question. Thank you >> so much. I appreciate that because a whole bunch of other people probably wondering exactly the same thing if you are. So glad you called. So um to start

with uh it is not universal. Number one,

everyone does not need life insurance.

It's if people are counting on your income to live and you die, then they're

up a creek, right? And so um so and as

you build wealth through your life and

get out of debt through your life and your net worth increases through your life, you progressively need less insurance to the point that you're self-insured. I'm 65. I'm worth millions

of dollars and I don't have a dime of life insurance. Okay? My wife will be just fine if I die. Okay? As a matter of fact, she's kind of planning it.

Okay? Okay. So, but that's because we're out of debt and have built wealth. You follow me? And there's no kids to raise.

They're all the kids are all grown and gone and so forth. Okay. Jade, on the other hand, has two littles and she and Sam are raising a family right now.

>> Okay. And so, different positions in

life. So, if you're 20 and you have no

spouse and no kids, um you you don't

need much life insurance because no one's counting on your income. So, that's that's the sidebar. That's the caveat. But then back to your original meat of your question is let's say you're 34, you have two kids, and you make uh $60,000 a year, and your spouse

makes $70,000 a year. Okay, that's when we would say if you got a house mortgage, um you know, you've got some student loans you're still paying off, you're working the baby steps, you're a normal 34 year old in America today, oh,

you definitely need 10 times. And the reason is this. $60,000 income earner 10

times would be $600,000. 12 times would be 700,000. So if that person died, let's say that that let's say that was the husband. He died and left the wife behind with two littles and half the income that used to be there. That wife could take that 600,000 and invest it.

If she made 10% on 600,000, it creates

60,000 of income without touching the

nest egg that is created. The goose will keep laying that golden eggs perpetually. If you invest 600,000 at

10% um in a good growth stock mutual fund, it should average that or more.

>> Mhm. >> Uh then she's going to have the same income off of that mutual fund that her husband used to produce. And you did not sacrifice retirement.

>> Yeah. And she didn't have to starve to death. Okay. And so that that's where it

leaves her in reality. And we've got thousands of those stories over the years. But that's where it comes from.

You invest that 10 times and and and at 10% then you end up with replacing the income of the person and that's what life insurance is for.

That make sense?

>> Yes, I think so. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, if in other words, if you What's your situation? How old are you?

>> Um, I'm 35. >> Okay. Single or married? >> I have I'm married. We have three kids,

two in middle school, one in high school. >> Okay. And what's your net worth?

>> Our net worth is roughly about 200,000.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're doing pretty good. All right. How much debt do you have?

>> We don't. >> Okay. Good. House or anything?

Uh well, how do we have a little bit left? Uh there's a little bit less than 100,000 left on that. >> Okay. Well, you're ahead of the game.

Agreed.

>> Yeah, >> you're doing better than average for your age. Okay. Funny. I picked out 34 a minute ago, huh? For the for the example. But yeah, but the uh but that is the exact average. So, what does your husband make?

>> Um my husband makes about 80,000. Okay.

And so if he had a million on him and we invested that at 10%, he'd make $100,000 minus taxes. You'd have 80,000 bucks.

And we would not miss his income.

We'd miss him, but we wouldn't miss his income.

>> Mhm. >> And here's the weird thing. If he's healthy, if he's not obese, and he doesn't smoke, that that million dollars on that 30 something year old is very inexpensive.

>> Okay? >> It's like the cost of a pizza. I mean, it's nothing when you look it up. So, >> have you priced it out yet, Kayla?

>> Um, yes. Yeah, we had gone through Xander and had a couple estimates and so we had priced it out. I was just trying to figure out exactly like where where we should land with that. >> So, truthfully, a million is a little much for y'all because you're in such good shape because if you didn't get his whole income replaced as good a job as you've done, you'd probably be okay. Mhm.

>> But for the difference in the cost in 800 grand and a million on policies so low, I'm going to go ahead and beef it up a little bit. >> And even later on when the kids were grown and gone and we had some wealth, Sharon wanted me to keep life insurance for a while and I kept it for a little while. SWI, Sharon wants it. There was

no reason for it whatsoever mathematically. She just wanted some. I finally I finally let it go. I finally talked her out of that a few years ago.

But um for about a decade I kept a life insurance for no apparent reason other than SWI. >> She said I'd rather have that million-doll policy than another diamond. I'm like good. Okay, you can

have it. It's a just a gift to you. But you understand it's not good financial planning. It's you understand it's not what I teach. And she's like I don't care what you teach. I want it. Okay.

>> To be a fly on that wall.

>> But that's that's where the it comes from. If you if you take 10 times or 12 times your income, your spouse could invest that amount at 10% and we have replaced you if something happens to you financially. Obviously, no one could replace you. You're special.

But um yeah, right. But anyway, so yeah, that that's the thing. You're going to be okay. >> And then as you age, like let's talk about the once you've aged out of it, like when you feel when you feel like you've net worthd out of it, let me call it that.

>> Well, the kids are grown 15. We say 15 to 20 year level term. That's a good point. Because 15 to 20 years from now, the kids will be grown and gone.

>> That's right. And they're making their own money. >> They're doing their own thing.

>> Um 15 to 20 years from now, you'll be out of debt, 100% house and everything.

>> That's right. >> Because we tell you never take out more than a 15-year mortgage. So, you're going to be completely debtree 15 to 20 years from now. And 15 to 20 years from now, you probably have a million bucks or more in your 401k because you will been investing in baby step four 15% of your income. And so your your assets are r rising, your debts are going down, and the kids move out.

>> Then it takes less to support you, and you set up with good financial planning, working the baby steps, a situation where you become self-insured, >> right? When really at that point, the only thing you're thinking about is your health. >> Yeah. >> And caring for your health.

And so there you go. >> Yeah. But but we're not >> if again if something happens to me today >> we've done all of those things and then some, >> right? >> Uh uh so Sharon's more than okay and vice versa, I'll be okay, you know, without her income.

It it'd be okay. She doesn't have an income, but that's good. So that's other than mine cuz it's ours and all that.

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investing might seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be.

The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools and resources that can help you get informed, not intimidated. Check it out.

ramseolutions.com/retire

or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Guys, remember retirement is not an age, it's a number.

So, it's not like 65 bing.

No, it's more like 2 million six bing, you know. Okay. What

is it you want? What's the nest egg you want to where you don't have to think about money? Then you are able to retire

at that point. Now, we can call that financially independent. I don't like that phrase very much, >> but um we could call that um whatever.

And I don't like just saying I'm never going to work again either. I think you ought to do something. I I work and I don't need to because I love what I do and I help people and it's a good thing.

And so find something to lay your hand to. That's a good thing because too too many people do quote quit work and like a year later they're dead.

>> So you you need to something you're doing, right? You need to be plugged into something and but that's yeah

remember retirement is not an age, it's a number. All right, here we go. Amelia is in South Carolina. Hi Ameilia. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Great. Um, okay. Well, I'm calling because my husband is a physician and

his practice is a private practice and

they are about to merge tomorrow with some other groups and I we just figured

out that his 401k from his old company

or you know the company he's with today that's about to become a new company tomorrow.

um we don't have to put that into the new company's 401k. I guess we can

instead make it a self-directed IRA >> or you could just roll it to an individual IRA. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I think that that may open up

lots of different options and just wondered if you had any advice like could we consider putting some of it into real estate investments or something like that. >> Okay. All right. Good.

Well, the f first thing is yes, I would roll it to something. I would not leave it with the new company 401k. This is an opportunity to move it to something where you have a lot more control and a lot more options.

manage you roll it to an IRA. There's zero taxes on that and you manage that from this point forward at a minimum.

Okay? If you chose to do a self-directed, you could roll some or all of it that way. How much is in it?

>> Um, it's our biggest of all of our retirement accounts. It's 1.155.

>> Okay. >> Million. >> Okay. Do you own other investment real estate now?

>> No. >> Okay. How old are you guys?

>> 52. >> Okay. All right. So, here's the um yes,

you could roll half of it or some of it or all of it. Let's say you moved a half a million over and you bought a couple of $250,000 rental houses in South Carolina and you put the other half a million or other 600,000 in a regular

IRA like I was talking about in mutual funds. Okay. In the self-directed, then

you can buy real estate as you mentioned with and you could do those two $250,000 houses in there if you wanted to. Okay.

The downside is two things. One,

people screw up and forget that you

can't touch any of the money from those

rental houses.

Okay? Just like you can't cash out your mutual funds in your IRA until you're 59 and a half, you're going to get penalized. Okay? So, you can't pull the

rent money out and use it. 100% has to

be operated like it's someone else's company and you can't embezzle or co-mingle funds in any way. It has to be a standalone operation and 100% of the

repairs are done from the IRA, the roof,

the uh the heat and air that goes out on the rental, the carpet that has to be replaced on the rental, and 100% of the income created in the rental has to stay in the IRA. You understand?

>> Okay. Yep. That makes sense. >> Yeah. So, because if you pull in one dime out, number one, they may toss you out of the whole thing, but number two, you're going to get penalized on that dime and um and taxed on that dime when

you pull it out. So, don't coingle it.

And people often mismanage these things.

So, you got to just be real airtight with that and promise, promise, promise and stick with it. The second thing is you've never owned any real estate.

not as an investment. >> Yeah. And you're getting ready to be a landlord and buckle up, buttercup. This is new experience.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, when she pulls the rents, those hypothetical rentals um that she purchases, she pulls the rents. Those money, that money has to immediately go back into the IRA.

>> You're not pulling it. You're running it as a separate company. It's got its own checking account. >> You're running it as a company over here.

Like you like it's not you, like you're doing it for somebody else. So, it all stays encapsulated within the IRA.

repairs. No >> and for That's interesting.

>> Yeah. Well, the rents would create because they're stuck in there. You can't pull the rents out. So the rents begin to build up cash, >> right, >> over time. Hopefully you're cash flowing. I mean, you're buying paid for two paid for rental properties, right?

So hopefully you're cash flowing. You're making some money. So those rent those $2,500 rents are piling up. Then you got to pay property taxes out of that, pay insurance out of that.

Um you got to do your repairs out of that. And what's left in there is profit, but 100% of that profit stays in there. Yeah, >> that's what we're doing. So, yeah, you just got to be ready because here's the thing.

>> Okay, that makes sense.

>> Because people who say real estate's passive investing make me laugh.

There's nothing passive about it. Okay, it's real estate. The beauty of it is it

it requires some more effort. With mutual funds, you can set it and forget it. Look at it once a year, twice a year, and not worry about it.

>> You know, I look at my real estate stuff every month. I get reports on it every single month. And that's just me looking at the people that are managing it for me, that work for me, okay? And and I look at my mutual funds once a year.

>> Uhhuh. That's a I mean, so I I burn a lot more brain calories on my real estate than I do on my other, but I make more money on it. >> So, but I love real estate. I'm a real estate guy. So, it it makes a lot of sense for me. I would not put 100% of it in real estate. I would do something like I outlined, maybe 50%.

>> Okay. But do you think with the real estate market where it is right now that this is a good time to consider something like that? >> If you get a bargain on a piece of real estate, it's always a good time.

>> Okay. Don't pay retail. Good lord. No.

Yeah. No. We want to get a deal.

>> And so we're going to get a deal. We're going to buy a $300,000 house for 250 because we're writing a check and we're closing Friday.

>> You want to sell your house, it's sold. I'm getting a bargain. Okay. And we're looking for a deal.

And not every and deals are hard to find, but but they're worth it. It's $50,000 you made right then. Soon as you buy it, 50,000 under market. And that that's what I'm looking for if I'm buying I don't buy houses anymore, but um if I was buying houses right now, that's what I'd be doing.

I'd be looking for a bargain. Um are they everywhere on every corner? No, they never have been. There's no market that they're everywhere.

But you can find them and that there somebody out there needs to sell a house right now. And there stands a millia with cash.

yeah, you can you can do it. And here's the other thing. If you get into it and you hate it, you can sell them >> inside the self-directed IRA >> and roll the self-directed into mutual funds into a regular IRA. You can you can you can put the car in reverse and back out of this, okay?

>> And maybe not even lose money. But if you just get into it and go, "This is a pain in the butt. I don't want to fool with this and I want to like be traveling. I don't want to be dealing with renters, right?" And so that's okay.

That that's fine.

So yeah, if I were you, I'd try it since you got the itch, but but I wouldn't try it with more than half and I wouldn't do it. Of course, you're going to pay cash, >> but um I actually knew a guy that did this cuz he was a guy that did flips.

>> Mhm. >> And he took his million and made it made it into three doing flips. >> Wow. >> All inside the IRA, though, never he couldn't eat out. >> Well, I was going to say have you he had to have a job over here to eat. Yeah.

You know, >> it's a fail safe in that way. You're not going to spend your earnings. It keeps your hands off of it unless you screw up the whole thing. Yeah.

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Michael and Cara are on the debtfree stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Well, how are you doing?

>> Better than we deserve. Good to have you. Where do y'all live?

>> Uh, King George, Virginia. >> Oh, fine. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $212,626.

>> Good for you. And how long did that take? >> 65 months. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time >> was 96,000 to 120 and down to about I

think it's going to be about 115 this year. >> Cool. What do you do for a living? So, I am a vendor. I work for um Liftoff

Distribution, which is a Red Bull vendor. >> And I work for a child development center at the Navy Base. >> Oh, very cool. Very cool. All right.

213,000 over 65 months. That's your house? >> Yes, sir. >> Look at it. We're people.

A paid for house. How old are you two?

>> I am 34.

>> I'm 35. Wow. >> And a paid for house. Oh, and I there's a picture of it in the snow. I like it.

So, what's that house worth?

>> Well, uh, they said in the email after I

think it was 330. Yeah.

>> 330,000. Awesome.

>> Good for y'all. And you're 34 years old.

And how much have you got in your retirement nest eggs at this point?

>> 146,000. >> All right. Halfway to millionaire.

>> Going to be there quick now.

>> How's it feel to have a paid for house at 35 years old? Y'all know how weird you are, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. We hear it a lot. Yeah, it feels

great. >> Yeah, we're really excited. >> Yeah, that's fun. Good for you.

>> So, what started the journey? >> Yeah. I mean, like 65 months ago. Wow.

Five years and some change. >> Mhm. So, you uh did an interview on the

Sunday special and I got to listen to it one day when uh at the time I was working at Fredo and I was loading my truck and I was listening to it and I was listening to it and I said, "Oh, I can't wait to get home. I got to tell my wife, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I got to go home. So, I got done, came home, and I said, uh, you

know, we we got to do this journey. And my wife was like, what are you talking about? I came in I came in through the front door like I was crazy.

>> And, uh, >> he he got into the Fritos again.

>> Yeah. And she was like, "Okay, well, it makes sense. So, you know, where do we start?" And I said, "Well, the first thing is we got enough money. We had a car payment. Pay the $3,000. Let's just pay the rest of it off." forgot the money and she said, "Okay, let's do it." >> Well, all right. One down.

>> So, you already you didn't start with a bunch of consumer debt. You had kind of kept your way out of debt up until this point. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it was uh And >> we've always been against credit cards.

>> Yeah. Credit cards and all that stuff. To be honest with you, I wouldn't have gotten I wouldn't have gotten the car debt if my mom didn't tell me that it was good for you.

>> And so, since it was so good for me, it uh you know, I went ahead and paid that off. Says Yeah. So, we paid that off and then uh

we did the six months get your get your emergency fund and then right about that time COVID happened.

>> Uh so, once CO happened um

>> I uh took advantage of the refinance rates cuz they were way down. I went to two and 3/4 on the house >> and um and then at that time, you know, so we continued to put anything extra on the house and it was just a small amount at first. And um >> every raise we'd put more and I got a little more >> intentional.

Every every raise, every tax return, it just was automatically the raise that I needed to put on the mortgage every month. Every single month, every single year, if it was $7,000 back, okay,

divided by 12, that's what it goes up.

If if I got she got a a raise at work

for cost of living or something, okay, it's $1,200 divided by 12, that also goes on it. And we just lived exactly the same way for 65 months. No vacations, no eating out, no nothing.

Just >> Wow. >> Streamline. >> And now you're completely done and halfway to being millionaires already.

>> Yes, sir. >> Congratulations, you guys.

>> Thank you. >> Wow. How much How many people making fun of you while you're doing this?

>> To be honest with you, it didn't really think anyone made fun of us. A lot of people were just like, "Wow, that's awesome. We wish we would do that." >> Yeah. They were like I had a lot of people saying, you know, it was that it is unusual. Why do you know why do you want to do it? And you know, I'm just was kind of fed up with some career path

stuff that corporate America does to people. So, uh I got really really aggressive. >> Yeah. >> Get that piece. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> So, >> you got walk away power at that point.

>> Yeah. Yes. >> I know. That's right. So, what's the My favorite question is what are you going to do to celebrate? >> Yeah. >> You haven't done vacation. You haven't done anything in five. >> You're way over years.

Well, we brought all of our kids here today. That was not a vacation.

>> Uh, as far as vacations and stuff like that, I don't I'm I'm not totally ready for it yet. I just I because the mission's not quite done. So, this house is done. Uh, but the house that we have now, you know, is uh we we got a full house. Five kids, nine pets, 1,200 ft.

Running out of room. >> Yeah. So, probably going to take the next year and a half or so, pile up cash, take the equity, buy, you know,

$550, $600,000 house cash,

>> then from there, >> then you can take a vacation.

>> No, take a vacation. >> Listen, I think take one in between.

>> A little one, little one.

>> Oh, boy. >> Congratulations, you guys. >> Thank you very much. >> Proud of you. Pretty amazing. Who was cheering you on? >> Um, our families. Uh yeah, his parents, my parents. Um I'm one of 13 kids, so we have lots of aunts, uncles, cousins, so we had we had a lot of a big support system. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Wow. Wow. >> That's good. That's good. That's the way it should be. All right. So, can this still be done? Do you think people listening can do it? >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Definitely. >> If >> you just need to be motivated. >> Yeah, it is the discipline. It is discipline.

If you if you >> Where did the discipline come from? How did you develop your discipline? to be honest I um >> I think it's been a work in progress over the last 10 years. I think he's just steadily got more uh disciplined and everything >> and and I think a lot of it is perspective.

I listen to a lot of podcasts because I do work by myself as a vendor. I get to listen to a lot of it and uh you know being able to hear what other people are doing. being able to um and not just on the Ramsay show but on maybe on on Jaco's podcast or other things like that and hearing the type of disciplines that people go through the life uh things that they go through as well that you know if if the worst thing that I' I've got to do is you know throw product in the rain.

Okay, my life's pretty good.

>> I I can I can hold off, you know.

>> Cool. >> Wow. Well, way to go you guys. Rock and roll, man. That's fun.

>> That's fun. So, how does it feel one more time? >> Feels amazing. It does feel really good.

It feels great. Like you said that >> you brought you brought the kids with you. Are they in here? They're in here to do the debtree scream. Bring them up.

Let's introduce them. Get the names and ages on them. >> Come here. You come with me.

>> All right. >> There's the first one. >> There's the first one. >> This is Declan. >> Mhm. >> We got a Landon.

>> Mhm. >> We got a Anthony. Mhm.

>> We got an Elliot >> and we got my big baby Riley.

>> Ah, I love it. All right. Very cool.

Fabulous, guys. Well done. Well done.

>> Good stuff. Well, these kiddos don't even know how powerful a hero their mom and dad are. They've changed their whole family tree. Everything's different in your house because of your decisions. I'm so proud of you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Michael and Cara and the gang from Virginia. 213,000 paid off in 65

months. Making 96 to 120. House and

everything. Halfway to baby steps millionaires at only 34 years old. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1. We're debtree.

>> Yay.

>> Oh man. If you didn't know what freedom

sounded like, you can play that back now. That's what freedom sounds like.

That's how it works. >> I love that. That Listen, if you can pay off a house in 5 years, then you can

save up a down payment to buy a house.

You know what I'm saying? Like it's just a mirror to show real estate dream is not dead, >> right? >> They paid off their house. >> They paid off their house at 34 years

old with a house full of kids, by the way, and dogs and cats. Yes. This is not this is not a >> this is this is doable. This is reachable. And that's why we do the debtree screams to remind you guys that real people are doing it too. And that gives you permission to go do it. Hello.

It's called hope.

Heat.

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Heat.

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Proverbs 18:4 is our scripture of the day. The words of the mouth are deep waters, but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream. Elizabeth Elliot said, "Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

Make a boring podcast, but other than that, yeah." >> Uhhuh. >> Michelle is in do. Hi, Michelle. How are

you? >> I am wonderful. Dave, Jade, how are you?

>> Great. How can we help?

Well, I was calling in because I need

some guidance uh getting out of a financial mess and um I have been in and

out of this mess for many years and I'm

tired of being tired and I just figure

someone has eyes from the outside looking in and can say, "Hey, this is what I see and I know like I know how to

do it." You know what I'm saying? I just I need I don't know what I need. I just need some help getting out of the mess.

>> Cuz that's what it is. >> Yeah. You're sick and tired of being sick and tired, huh?

>> Yes.

>> So tired. >> Yeah. Okay. So, tell me about it. What's the mess?

>> Well, the mess is I have I I've been uh

I'm in debt. >> Yeah. What kind of debt have you got? >> 40,000. I have IRS debt, $22,000 worth.

IRS 22,000.

>> Yes. 22,000. >> What else? >> Um a car loan 20,000.

>> Mhm. >> Um I have a credit card uh $477

and I have a loan uh I literally just

had my car pay uh repaired and financed

$834 of that$83419

to be exact. >> That it?

>> Yes. >> No student loan.

No. >> You got a mortgage?

>> No. I've got an extraordinarily expensive for my budget uh rent.

>> How much is your tired of paying?

>> $18.99.

>> Okay. All right. Are you single?

>> Yes. >> And what do you make?

>> Um it fluctuates. Um I work um as a

teacher. Um working I work online. So um

I have about one, two, three jobs. Um,

and generally I literally just did this.

Um, in one of the jobs, um, I bring home $500 a month. Uh, let me see. I'm just

looking at the numbers. Uh, $500 a month. The other one is 1,000 a month and the other one is approximately 32 uh

2,800 a month approximately cuz they fluctuate. All of them do.

>> Okay. All right. And how'd you get IRS debt? Some of this 1099 and you didn't

pay your taxes.

>> Well, I was Yes, that is the end. That's the cut and dry thing. Yes, I I've

worked at this one of these companies for 15 years and when I first started, we were $1099 and of course, you know, the tax bill is so high and I couldn't afford it to be quite frank and I've been paying on this since then.

>> Okay. All right. So, for many years you've had this IRS laying there.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you got 3,800.

You've got uh $4,300 a month take-home pay >> and eight and 2,000 almost rent.

>> Your rent is ridiculous.

>> Mhm. >> Yes. >> It's ridiculous.

>> Okay. How much is your car payment?

Um, it's $427

I believe is the exact amount, but I've been behind on it. So, I literally called yesterday and got a payment arrangement for $500. Um, I've been

paying $430 on it.

>> Okay.

All right. So, um, first thing is we have to address living emergency to emergency. And then the second thing is you're going to have to make some adjustments in your rent.

>> You can't stay there and prosper.

Got it. >> You simply cannot afford $1,899 on

4,300. That's where the That's your math

strain point. It's killing you. Now, how many bedrooms are there?

>> Three. >> Okay. So, the other option would be taking in two roommates.

But if you're not going to do that, you have to I'm sorry.

>> What? >> I said I don't want to do that.

>> I don't want you to do that either. So, you're going to have to move then.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz you simply cannot do this. Okay.

Unless you're going to tell me that there's somebody's offering you a job to double your pay, >> and I missed that in the conversation.

So, yeah, that's this is what's killing you, don't you think, Jade? >> I think so. What can you tell us more about the jobs that you're doing?

>> Yes. So, I'm an ESL instructor and basically it's the way that they pay.

It's kind of like um like peacework, if you will. So depending on how many students I teach for that day, then I get paid. It's basically I get paid for every student that I that I teach >> per the minute. And the other is um it's

um one is the same thing actually. It's just another company. I do that as well.

And then the other job is I work as a tutor um for schools throughout the

United States. Um, I just came off of a job on the other side of this same company, uh, where I had just for 6 months because of the summer, um, where I was working full-time.

>> Is there any decent money in translation at all? >> That's what I'm wondering.

>> Well, I there is, but I don't know any other language. These these companies, these in the >> So, you're teaching English as a second language, but you don't know the other language, >> right? It's It's the unofficial first English is the unofficial first language in South Korea. That's where I teach. So I don't have to know Korean.

>> I see. >> Got it. Got it. Got it.

>> H. >> So you're Okay. >> Like >> my end goal >> is that my end goal is that I'm I've been called to ministry, but I do not

and refuse to be broke.

>> And I know >> I don't know the do Delaware market.

Hey. Is it an expensive market?

>> No, it's not. >> Okay. You just found an expensive place to live. Okay. >> And you This is taking up Is this taking up 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week?

>> Oh, I'm working literally sun up to sundown before sun up to sun down.

>> Let me go Let me change gears back to what I said a minute ago. The first thing you've got to do is to do your detailed budget and you have to prioritize every dollar that's coming in. And the priority sounds like this.

The first thing you buy is food.

The second thing you buy is lights and water. The third thing you pay is rent and it's an adjusted rent because you're moving. Okay? And so we food, shelter,

clothing, transportation, and utilities.

We pay your car payment. We keep the lights on. Okay? So we're not ever

behind on the car again. We're not ever behind on the rent. We're not ever behind on the lights. You've got enough to do all of that. M >> the only question is then how can we make progress when we knock out these first two little debts, the little credit card debt and the little car debt you just took on. But from now on, you're going to be so in control that these little things that pop up are not going you're going to put $1,000 as your baby step one aside savings. And so if a

little car thing pops up, you just pay cash for it. You stop everything. You go back build that thousand back up. Mhm.

>> But you've got to get away from this crisis to crisis to crisis to crisis because it starts to feel like your life's a country song. >> Well, the rent is the unlock for that.

>> Yeah. Well, but being on a budget and a prioritized budget, every detail written

down before the month begins and then it's prioritized. As a dollar comes in, it is already spent because you've got the next thing up.

>> Next thing up, first thing up is food.

Second thing is lights and water. Third thing, shelter. Fourth things, car and car gas. That's it. Next thing up, next thing up and then we're going to knock out the little 400. We're going to build our 800 or build our thousand up. Then we're going to start on baby step two and working our way through that. You adjust that. Um, you also have a car you

can't afford. Um, as well. Uh, and so,

>> yeah, that's, >> you know, I'm going to start looking at that, but it's not as big a pain point as the the rent is. The rent is

>> roughly double what you can afford.

Yeah. >> And so you may you're doing all this remote anyway. You may be moving out a ways from the city to find a bargain in a little bit of a more rural area and get a much better deal of some kind. Uh,

you know, a garage apartment over the back in the backyard of a rich old lady and you move in there and help watch over her a little bit or something and she's make sure she's doing okay and you you get a bargain with that garage apartment until you get this thing squared around. And then when you get it squared around, you get these debts cleared. Then you start to build your good emergency fund. You start to build some wealth.

Then you got some wiggle room to start to build a better quality of life at that point. But in the meantime, we're going to be rice. Rice and beans. And we'll give you every dollar for a year and get you set up and get you going on that.

That's going to really help you with the process. Our gift to you. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 275. You Won’t Win With Money by Accident | October 14, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wall, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. The number here if you want to talk is88255225

and we're going to talk about you right in front of you. Nancy's with us in Clarksville. Hey Nancy, how are you?

>> Good Dave, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um my question is I have paid off all my

debt in step two. Um but the problem is

I got involved in a lease for an HVAC system. The total cost of the system when paid off at 10 years will be 62 over $62,000.

So I'm wondering do I pay it off using

the snowball method and just get out of

it meaning I'm responsible for all that or just leave it until I do the house

stuff?

>> Wow. Okay. I didn't know you could do a lease on a heat and air system. That sounds like sounds like >> the attorney general and I went through better business bureau and the attorney general consumer protection department said it is legal. It's being done all across the US. >> Yeah. >> Um so yeah, >> but it's so bad that they Yeah. It's

horrible. Yeah. >> Okay. So a lease typically I have no

idea in this case but typically would have an early buyout provision because leasing is simply financing >> and early buying is termination.

>> Okay. What does it cost >> to terminate it?

>> The cost of the whole contract.

>> No what you have remaining. Yes. Yes sir. >> No. >> Yes sir. 47. Right now, my lease buyout

would be about $47,000.

I paid >> I've paid 15. So, >> now you you had an attorney look at that part also, right?

>> I'm I'm getting there. I right after I did the system, um I got diagnosed with cancer. So, I had I got kind of sidelined for a few years. Now, I'm like, wait a minute. I don't want to keep doing this. This is this is thievery. It's theft.

>> Wow. >> But Okay. because I've I I mean I know

of a lot of equipment leasing, certainly car leasing. Um and I've looked at the

contracts on all kinds of leasing deals, even employee leasing they have out there now. Uh which is really strange.

And um uh uh every one of those have

have a buyout provision that is less than the total of payments because you're giving them their capital early.

you're giving them their money early and so they they're not collecting interest so to speak even though there's not technically an interest rate and so almost every one I've ever seen but I've never seen a heat and air one so I I don't know my god honey um all right so

let's let's do two things number one I want you to reinvestigate that part of it >> okay >> because as as suspect as this whole thing is that part of it suspect so if the total of your remaining payments is 47 A normal buyout provision would put you somewhere in the 30s.

And the way you would do that if that's the case is instead of paying them in

advance like double payments like you would in a debt snowball, you simply save the money up. You pay you pay yourself into a savings account and then write them one check if there is a discount for early payout.

Okay? And there typically is. If there is not either way, what is your income?

>> Uh, I just retired from federal service, so my income is roughly 2400.

>> Okay, this goes in baby step six then

because it is the equivalent of a second mortgage and it's a lean on your house because it's a lean on your heating and air system and you would pay it off in baby step six when you're paying off the house.

Okay. >> Um, what is your interest rate on your home? >> Uh, 2.25.

>> Yeah. No, no, no bueno there. We leave that alone. Okay. Is if you had a higher interest rate, I would suggest refinancing and taking them out.

>> Okay. My mortgage balance is 169. Yeah.

578. >> When you get to baby step six, you knock out the lease first either way, whether you get a discount or not, because it's more than half your annual income. When a when a home equity loan or a second

mortgage of any kind is more than half your annual income, we move it to baby step >> six. Yeah. I've never heard of such a thing as I now.

There's a lot of things that I get on this show that this is where I learn about it. Yeah. >> And then I have to go look it up later and go, "Oh, it is a thing." >> So, um um you know what else? I didn't

ask. She said federal employee. I Clarksville is a is a base military base. >> That's right. >> So these these may be morons that are preying on our military people.

>> Yeah, that's big. That's >> Yeah. Which makes this like double Yeah.

a double negative for this company that does that. So So if your if your son is

out there, mom, and his new job is selling heat and air leases, tell him don't be a crook and go do something else with his life.

>> Oh, there we go. >> There you go. >> I helped with that. Yeah, just throw a dart out there into the universe to see if we can hit a balloon.

Why not? Yeah, man.

Oh, man. Cuz I did have that happen one time. I was ripping on the payday lenders at 800%.

>> Yeah. Oh gosh. Yes. >> And a lady called and said, "Well, my h my son owns two of those stores." I said, "Well, tell him to sell them. Quit being scum." >> Uhhuh. >> He's ripping off poor people. He's oppressing the poor. Read about what happens in the Bible when you do that.

It's not good for you. It's not a place you want to be messing with widows, orphans, and oppressing the poor. These are not three things you want to do in the Bible. And um and really just as a matter of living your life properly. Hello. >> But uh yeah, they're scum. They're scum.

So yeah, shouldn't be don't be scummy.

And and then you're safe on this show.

We'll we'll leave you alone. >> Talk about you. >> We won't talk about your kid. We won't talk about you. We won't do any of that.

Yeah. So, so, uh, interesting to side

note, the lease on a car, and I suspect it's true on a heating and air system is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Several publications, including Ramsey Research, have done detailed research on this, and when you run the math out, so you can take a financial calculator and say, "This is what the MSRP is on the car, which is what it's calculated on. Here's what the buyout is

at the end of the lease." A closed in lease always has a number after 3 years, four years, 7 years, whatever it is, you can buy the car for 12,000, but it was a $64,000 car or whatever it is.

>> So, you've got those two numbers and then you have the number that is the monthly payment. When you put those into a financial calculator, you can figure out what the effective cost of capital

is. Uh, that's a fancy way of saying the interest rate. However, interest rates are not disclosed on leases like they are on car loans. The Federal Trade Commission requires they hand you one piece of paper with your APR on it.

Even if they're screwing you, they have to hand you that piece of paper and you'll look down and you'll see 38% or 28% or 12%. You know, you'll know you got subprime, right?

>> So, that cost of capital, there's no cap. >> No cap at all and no knowledge of what it is unless you know how to run a financial calculator. Wow. >> And I've done it on probably 40 or 50 leases over the years. Every time I do it, it comes out between 14 and 17%.

>> Mhm. >> And so those of you that are >> I got my BMW on a lease because my accountant said that was the smartest way to do it. You're an idiot. You got hammered. You're paying 17%. You should

fire your accountant and get rid of your beamer. You're getting hammered.

>> But you never did any math. You just thought you were sophisticated.

Geez. No, you wanted a beamer. That's what it was. And there's a way to get a beamer. Very little down, a lot a month, and very little at the end. Yeah, this is the problem.

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I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." There are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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Penelopey is in Georgia. Hi, Penelopey.

How are you? >> Hey, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Hey, I was calling because I wanted an unbiased opinion. Um, I wanted to know, should my husband and I be responsible for my father-in-law's property taxes?

Uh, I think you know the answer to that.

What do you think? >> I I I do. I I think I do too. Um, but I

can't seem >> Why does anyone think you are?

>> I should I I can't seem to convince my sister. >> Why does anyone think you are responsible for someone else's taxes?

>> Um, so my father-in-law doesn't work.

Um, he I I think he has um disability.

Um, but I think he can work um a little

bit >> to cover his expenses. And >> how does he eat?

>> I I don't know how he gets all his

money. Like I think he gets some disability. It's not clear to me. I've asked questions. I don't really get a whole lot of answers. >> How long has this been going on? How long has your husband insisted on paying these taxes for him?

>> So, um, backstory. um his so his dad's

brother used to pay them and um he died a couple years ago. So after he died um

he started asking my husband to do it and it was his only >> I'm sorry they

>> they meaning um I'm sorry his dad asked

>> okay him he started asking his son to pay his property. >> So he's been doing this >> how old how old is your father-in-law?

>> He's 60. >> What's the nature of his disability?

um diabetes and COPD.

>> Okay. And um >> and he get So he gets a disability check from who do you know?

>> I don't know. I've asked I've asked the questions but haven't >> How long have you been married?

>> Um we've been married three years now.

>> Okay. All right. So this started happening after you got married.

>> Yes. >> But for some reason your husband doesn't think it's any of your business. That's weird. >> He He just doesn't like to have these

uncomfortable conversations. >> Yeah. He doesn't like to have a conversation that involves him explaining to his wife why he's doing something stupid. Yeah. I have that problem, too. >> How much >> I don't like explaining to Sharon why I'm doing something stupid. It never comes out well. >> Right. How much is How much are the property taxes?

>> I mean, they're not crazy. They're um about 2100 a year.

>> And are you guys in debt?

>> We have a car loan. Um, and we have I I

can kind of consider the daycare because it's just so expensive. Um, so we have daycare expenses. >> What's your What's your household income? Huh?

>> Um, it's about 8,900 a month.

>> And you guys are what, 25 or 26?

>> No, we're 33 and 35.

>> Oh my. Okay.

I missed that one. Um,

okay. Um, is your husband the sole heir?

>> No. So, okay. The property is in the

deceased um uncle's name and his dad's name. It's like 50/50. Um,

but his dad Yes. The He's the only child

of his dad. >> And who's the only child of the uncle?

He has he has a couple kids.

>> Okay. >> Um and his wife is still his widow.

>> Oh, okay. All right.

So, at this stage of the game, uh your best um way this turns out is you guys end up owning half of the property, >> right?

>> Okay.

So, what does your husband do for a living?

>> He is um field service technician. Um he

just got a different job in um coordinating the field service folks.

>> Okay. All right. I I I have a 10%

problem with him spending $2,100 to pay

his dad's property taxes in an undefined situation. I have a 90% problem with how

he's treating you. >> Agree.

>> This is disrespectful to you.

And don't give me the cop out that he's such a wuss he can't have a difficult conversation with his own wife.

>> Grow a backbone. >> Well, yeah, because marriage there's a lot more difficult conversations than this. So, if he can't handle this, then good luck to you.

>> Yeah. >> Well, um what I meant was what? Well, yes. >> No, that's exactly it. Like >> that's exactly it. He refuses to talk about it because he's he knows he's going to lose the argument cuz he knows he's wrong >> and he can't figure out how to weasle his way out of this and he's more concerned about his daddy's opinion than he is his wife's opinion. This is a bad marriage situation for you. Really, really bad.

This makes some really negative comments about the quality of your relationship with your husband >> and and his ability to navigate basic

relational >> bear traps. He doesn't know how to work walk around them. >> It's either that or he you've said your piece and he wants to do what he wants to do and he's going to do it. Well, that's also a bad idea.

>> Either way, either way is not good. Yeah. The problem is not the $2,100 with what you guys make. Sure, you have a car loan.

you can pay that off, but this is really a very small part of your world on a month-to-month basis. So, it's truly not the money on this, it's the relationship. >> Yeah. It's it's he you know, you guys can't sit down and talk about this and make a decision.

He doesn't even want to look at himself in the mirror on this cuz it's a really dumb idea.

Hello. >> Mhm. Maybe if it all goes right and his

crazy cousins don't take him to court and try to get the whole thing later because none of these people did a will either. >> I was going to say sniff that out.

>> Yeah, this is so screwed up. So, no, let's say it was all perfect and it was a will and everything else. I'd still tell you to change it. The only way I'm prop paying property taxes on it is I want it in my name. >> Mhm. >> Go ahead and deed it to me. I pay property taxes on property that I own.

That's all, >> Jade. I'm not paying your property taxes. >> I would never ask Dave.

>> James, I'm definitely not paying your property taxes, >> Joe. I might think about it. Yeah, I'm sick. I'm serious. Come on, >> guys. I know. >> It's just cray cray. So, yeah. The big problem though in this discussion, Penelopey, is the way your husband is treating you and the way you're allowing yourself to be treated.

>> And so, you guys got to get down to the bottom of that. >> And that's the point, right? He's afraid if if he doesn't pay him, nobody's going to pay him and then they'll lose property. And so that is the solution.

>> I bet you this bunch figures it out.

>> Exactly. >> Like you want me to pay them? Deed the whole thing to me. >> Yeah. And then we >> Hey. Otherwise, cousin Otherwise, cousin Eddie, fess up your half. >> Mhm. >> Just roll up here in your RV with your part of the 2100, buddy.

>> Cuz you got two cousins over there that are getting ready to pick it up cuz the widow widow widow widow aunt's not picking up nothing. She's used to the free ride. Oh, free ride is the family script. Oh, and you never question the family script in a dysfunctional family because that might be saying the emperor has no clothes. Oh, we're all crazy and now we

have to talk about it. Oh, God.

>> That's what's going on. >> Oh, I know. >> Once there's a family dysfunctional family script in place and no one's allowed to argue with the lines. You just say your lines and you stay in your lane. You play your part >> even if your part is screwed up. And then comes along Penelope, >> right? And then comes along worse than that. She called us.

>> There you go. >> So yeah, guys, >> uh these types of confrontational, they don't have to be confrontational.

These types of conflicts, they have at their core confrontation. Discussing

uncomfortable subjects is the ability to do that and still remain likable, right? and still remain

loving and still remain kind

uh is the sign of a functional family.

And it's also a signal of whether you're going to end up with wealth or not. >> That's right. That's >> because if you cannot handle and navigate these kinds of things, you going to be broke all your life writing checks for crap that ain't yours. Hello.

That's how this works. It works in every family that way. But the families that can figure out a way and the ones that I've observed that can break the old family script and shift and change, it usually has to do with a faith awakening of a key member of the family >> and they inject Christ into the discussion and they go, "We're going to talk about this out loud. We're not going to duck and cover." >> Mhm.

>> We're going to be bold and kind and loving and we're going to be proper and caring, but we're also not going to be a bunch of enablers and act like we can't talk about it. >> Well, that one's off. You That one's off limits. Off limits.

My butt.

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Paige is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Paige.

How are you?

>> Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

My question is that my husband and I were looking to buy our first home here early of next year or middle of next year. >> Cool. >> And um yeah, and my question is um what

are some things that first time home owners like usually miss like costwise like closing costs, realtor costs, inspections? What are some things that first home owners overlook in the buying process? >> That's a really good question.

>> Okay. The first way to make sure the question's answered is get a high quality Ramsey trusted real estate agent in your corner because they're going to have the heart of a teacher because you're going to forget half of what I tell you in the next few minutes. And when you do, then you've got that person that's the heart of a teacher that can walk you right through it. Okay,

>> you ready?

>> Yes. >> Okay. You get them at ramseysolutions.com/agent and you get somebody in your area that we trust and has been trained by us and they will have the heart of a teacher and they will they will not walk around with their nose in the air acting like you already know everything. They're going to make sure you understand every single detail. Now, yes, you need to get

a home inspection.

>> No, you do not need to take it super seriously. If they say the front porch

light is blinking on and off, that's not a reason to walk away from the deal.

>> You can fix a front porch light for a couple of hundred bucks. Shut up. Okay.

>> I want to know about water. I'm always looking >> I want I want to know about major stuff in a home inspection. Mold, >> foundations, heating and air systems that are about to go kaput.

>> That kind of stuff. >> The roof. >> You always get a home inspection. All right. I'm guessing that you might be getting a mortgage.

Yeah, with we're going to do a 20% down payment. >> Good for you. Okay. Now, then all of this stuff has to do with mortgages.

Number one, you will have to set up at

the closing the escrow account. They will call it prepaids and they'll typically collect about 3 to 6 months of the property tax amount and 3 to six month of a homeowner's amount. And that sets up your escrow account for your insurance and your taxes. And then each time you pay a payment, you add a 12th of each of those to that escrow account.

And when the taxes come due, they pay it from the escrow account. But it's a pretty hefty out-of pocket expense called prepaids to set up the escrow.

Okay. The second thing is points. If you

pay points, you will lower your interest rate. One point equals 1% of the loan

amount.

Okay? it will lower your interest rate about 1/8 of a percent per point you pay

and it's not worth it. Don't do it

>> because in other words it takes you eight years to recoup your money. So we don't do that one. Okay.

>> The other one that's akin to that the mortgage brokers a lot of times will charge an origination fee and it typically is one to one and a half points.

And so what you can ask for from Church Hill Mortgage if you go to them is what we call a par quote, which is a little

higher interest rate because you're not buying it down with the origination fee or the points, but it saves your out of

pocket considerable because all the origination fee is profit to the mortgage broker and the mortgage broker also makes a profit when they sell the loan.

So you can get what's called a par quote. They typically will jack your rate a tiny bit around an eighth and a par quote on no points. So if you call me up and tell me you paid a point and a half origination in five points, you know, yeah, you probably lowered your interest rate like one and a half% over under market, but you prepaid all the interest in essence. That's what those two things are.

So we don't recommend doing that. I'm looking for a par quote on my mortgage 15-year fixed. You already know the drill.

Okay, the next thing is you're going they're going to require you to get a survey even if it's a stupid little subdivision lot where it's very predictable and you're never going to have any trouble with those lines and the survey is not worth anything because you're not going to even use it to put up a fence. You got to get a different survey to put up a fence. But this is a loan survey. It's typically hundred

maybe 200 bucks in your closing cost.

It's one of those mystery closing costs.

But the mortgage company simply wants to make sure the house is actually sitting on the lot and not on the neighbor's lot. And I have had those things discovered where the corner of the freaking house is five foot over in the neighbor's lot. >> Wow. >> And we have to kind of do something about that because the mortgage company's not going to loan the money.

Oh, and by the way, the buyer is not going to buy the house either if you got a good real estate agent.

a mortgage title insurance policy. This

is different than the MIP that you're avoiding by putting down 20%. The mortgage title policy is title insurance

that if the title is bad, this insurance

company has to write the mortgage company, not you, a check

to cover if the title's bad or pay off the people that come. So, for instance, one time I bought a house on an investment deal many, many moons ago, and the uh bought it from two sisters who had inherited the land. Uh they apparently forgot that they had a brother. >> Wow. and we signed off on everything and the brother shows up. The title insurance company did not catch that there was a brother in the estate file

estate, you know, the probate file. And so the title insurance company, I had title insurance ensuring that I had good clean title. I did not because I did

only had twothirds of it. The brother had the other third. They came in, wrote bro a check, and bro went on his way.

>> Um, that's called an owner's title

policy. So when you buy the title policy

for the mortgage title insurance for the mortgage company they will allow you for a few dollars typically a hundred bucks again something like that you can ask your title company for an extra hundred bucks you can also get a simultaneously issued exact same thing costs them no

more money it's why they don't charge much for it to give you the owner's

title insurance policy so that if there's bad title the mortgage company's covered and you are covered I highly recommend both of those. I would never buy a piece of real estate without title insurance ever.

>> And I don't. Now, who pays for the title insurance can change from area to area.

And I don't in our area, it's customary for the seller to pay for the title insurance.

And so then you can buy the simultaneous issue for 100 bucks or whatever. Uh but I don't know who's paying for yours in your case. You'd have to ask your local real estate agent that can tell you all of that. You'll also have a document prep fee that pays the title company or

the attorney that's closing it for prepping it. They also on top of that will charge you a closing fee as if they didn't get enough for prepping the docks. They also charge you a closing fee, but they're not huge amounts of money, but you're going to look down through there and you're going to see odds and ends of those. And then lastly, you'll see on the closing statement a proration of the taxes for the year. So if you buy

the house on the 1st of August, uh you

have um four months of the taxes and the

seller has eight months of the taxes.

Now, have the taxes been paid for that calendar year yet? If they have, the seller is going to get a credit and you're going to get charged because they've already paid the taxes through the end of the year and you're going to own the house for four months that year.

Okay? Vice versa, if the taxes are closing in August, but the taxes are due in October, uh you're going to get a

credit for the whole first of the year from the seller for the first eight months. and then you're going to be responsible for the remaining taxes and they're going to show up in that prepaids escrow account that I told you about. All right, so that's a couple of the things you look for. But here's the point of that whole thing.

All this stuff is gobbledegoop and it's all lumped into what we call closing costs and people go, "Oh, my closing costs were so high. It's like it's a vague term." No, you can get in there and dig around and understand what each item is and you can select to not do some of the items in some cases. >> That can be part of the deal.

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Not in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Amy in North Carolina. She says, "My husband and I have three children ages 13 to 19.

We make around $125,000 a year. Our combined take-home pay is $5,100 a month. We have 5,000 in credit card debt, 5,000 in personal loan, and our

monthly car payment is $1,275.

That's all their car payments combined.

We rent a home for $700 a month from our parents. Oh, from my parents. Our oldest

is at her dream college on scholarship, but we have to pay the tuition balance of $1,000 a month over 9 months. We have

nothing in savings or retirement. How can we pay off debt when all our expendable income goes toward tuition?

Our second daughter graduates next year and her dream school is also a private university. We want our kids to go to college. Uh we want our kids to go to the college of their choice, but I don't know how we can pay two tuitions when we're struggling to pay one. Can you help me figure out a plan to make this work? >> Yeah. Oh man. Oh man. Um, so I hate to

say this, but I'm also happy to say this cuz I think it's going to it's going to help you. They can't go to their dream schools.

They can't go to these private universities because you can't afford them and neither can they. And it's really a simple answer. >> My dream car is a Bentley.

>> I mean, come on. I wish I had a G Wagon.

I don't. So, that's kind of what it is.

Um, you're going to have to draw some boundaries here and you're going to have to say no. partially because you can't

afford it and partially because it's not the right who cares if they go to a private school. Who cares if it's their dream school, right? So, there's that.

That's what you've got to do. Um, and yeah, that's going to free up a,000 bucks a month. You've got bigger fish to fry here because you've got a lot of debt. Um, so that's the fir I would say that's the starting point. >> I agree with you. I think I would talk to the oldest daughter and say, "I have a dream.

I have a dream that you got a job." >> I know. and that you paid your $1,000 a month. >> What a life. >> What happens when dreams come true?

>> Yes. You're going to get a job, kiddo, if you want to go to that school cuz I'm cutting you off effective at the end of this school year. This cannot perpetuate. The second thing is this.

The second one's not going to school there. >> You can't afford it. You can't afford it. >> Can't. >> And let me tell you, and it's dumb.

I'm going to go $200,000 in debt because I want to go to my dream school. We have interviewed so many college students like for the uh borrowed future documentary >> and asked them why it was their dream dream school.

>> My friend's sister went there. She said it's awesome.

>> That's how they define dream school. One said, "I want to go to Mississippi and Oxford." Why? It's a really pretty town.

You're killing me here. You're killing me. Your lack of decision-making

ability is killing me. And you're going to go $200,000 in debt so they can go to this school because I've always Let's just say you dreamed of going there because it's a fancy fancy school.

>> Yeah. >> Like, you know, Vanderbilt. Okay. 70,000 bucks a year, right? >> Oh gosh.

>> Okay. Let's just pretend. I mean, Vanderbilt's a good school. >> Yeah, sure. >> There's nothing wrong with Vanderbilt. It's not horrible. Uh, it's got a big name. It's kind of the Ivy League of the South. not they generally until this year not very good at football but they got a good football team this year and um you know but 70,000 bucks a year they got a small undergrad it's about 3500 is a population undergrad is about 3500 uh University of Tennessee is about 35,000 >> and it's 11,000 a year

and you can mow grass and go there and

pay for it >> right but here's the thing though she has this is a long line of bad choices

Yes, >> this is just the most recent one. You you guys are I'm guessing in your 40s,

maybe getting ready to be 50s. I don't know. But you're still renting. You're still paying 12275 a month for cars.

>> Think let's just put that in clarity, Dave. You would rather drive these cars than pay for your kids' tuition cuz your cars are $1275 and the tuition is $1,000. I'm just saying if you were going to trade one for the other, there it is. >> I'll just get rid of both of them. But I'm just saying th this is showing the pri this is just showing a lack of clarity on decision- making. Um yeah,

we're still renting. We've got these car notes and yeah, personal loans, credit

card debt. You guys have got to change your ways. Not just with college, but >> yeah. So, you're going to have to disappoint your children so that they don't spend the next decade of their life being disappointed by student loans getting a degree from a college that's worthless.

>> And where you go to school does not matter. There is no data, zero pieces of

research that say where you went to school caused you to be successful.

None. Not a you went to a good school.

Prove it. What' they do? Nothing.

Nothing, honey. Just like the cereal.

It's exactly what they did. They did nothing. Cuz the formula that makes you successful is called stirring up the person in your mirror. >> Uhhuh. >> And they'll go find the knowledge it takes to become successful. There's no correlation.

None. 78% of the publicly traded company

CEOs went to a state school.

>> Wow. >> Not MIT, not Harvard, not Yale, not

Vanderbilt. I went to the University of Tennessee and people that went to Vanderbilt work for me.

>> Dave, you don't even know where I went to school. >> I don't. Where'd you go to school? >> It doesn't matter. >> Oh, there's that one. I know that school. It >> doesn't matter. >> Yeah. Where you went to school does not matter people. So quit pay overpaying

for where you went to school. That's problem number one. >> Problem number two is help people have a different dream. And the dream is to get educated instead of living your dream at 18 years old. >> The dream is to put some intellectual power in your tool belt so you can go out there, kill something, and drag it home. >> That's the idea. Okay. It is not I and I

just just the the trees are pretty.

You're killing me. And they have a great football team. Do you play football? No.

What's it matter? None of the people that play football there are going to play football at the next level either.

So, let's just call Good God.

>> The college experience. Yeah. And you're $85,000 in debt for your college experience. And you learned how to play beer pong.

>> This is dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Okay. And it's serious about education. It's dumb. That's weird. So, yeah. Where you go to school matters. Working while you're in school matters. Getting scholarships matters.

And choosing to study something that actually has some use in the marketplace. Getting a degree in lift left-handed puppetry and then saying you were victimized by the higher education system is bull crap. You were victimized by your own stupidity because you got a useless freaking degree and you overpaid for it from a useless freaking university. It's just crazy, you guys.

So, I believe in education. All three of my kids got four-year degrees in something they can actually use.

>> And by the way, we paid cash. And by the way, it was the University of Tennessee Govall State School.

>> Okay? >> And so if you want to go to Vanderbilt and you've got an extra half million dollars laying around, >> go for it. >> Then dream your little butt over there.

Okay? But I I'm telling you, ours didn't have that choice. And I had the money.

>> Yeah. >> I'm just saying nope.

>> With a capital N. Nope.

>> Not doing this. So that that that starts and ends the conversation. But you're right. The big deal in this one is it's an extension of a series of bad decisions.

We're fighting credit card debt. >> We haven't prepared these kids to go anywhere except we apparently never been told no. I mean >> well and there's never been a conversation and I think for me the biggest part when it comes to college, you just you have to do yourself the service and your kids the disservice of talking about this early on.

Here's what, you know, your dad and I or your mom and I are going to pay for. Here's what we're not going to pay for. Here's what you're responsible for.

Here's the list of places that you can go. Here's the list of places you can't go. We expect you to work. We expect you to have work. Whatever that is, just say it out loud so when they're 12 so they can start thinking about it. >> Yeah, man. I say it all the time. My parents, >> here's the purpose of education to make you more effective in the marketplace.

>> Uh-huh. Right.

>> Yeah. My parents told me from the very beginning, you better be good at sports or school because we're you don't have a college fund, so you better figure it out. >> Yeah. >> And I knew that that was my it was on me. >> Game on. Game on. And I'll just go ahead and stir up the rest of you. A friend of mine that's got a lot of money.

>> He's taking his kid on a college tour.

>> I'm like, we told our kids Knoxville where the University of Tennessee is over. It's over there. Run, run over and give a look. [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host. Sarah

is in Virginia Beach. Hi Sarah, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I guess I have a question about uh

debt and merging everything. I'm a new wed. Um, me and my husband recently got married in December 12th, 2024.

and I didn't know that he wasn't as

financially responsible as I thought.

Um, he has, I guess, been more secretive

about his debt. I'm a bit more like open

about it and he wants to merge accounts, but I'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied um to me about

certain debt. And I'm working on now using like your plan to get myself out of debt because I bought a home uh before we got married back in 2023. I have a car I'm working on paying off which is supposed to be paid off uh later maybe next year. Um and a couple

other few debts, but he has many more that I'm I wasn't aware of and some that I think he's secretive about still.

we're going to marriage counseling, but I just >> I don't know how to be more comfortable with >> merging our accounts together. And so you're like, we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets.

>> Give me an example. So, let's clarify because part of part of the solution um

to the problem is you merging accounts because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on, right? There's transparency there. So, give me an example of uh what that deceit looked like. Was it I asked him how much the the bill was and he said it was 300, but really it was 3,000. Tell me an example of what that is.

>> Yeah. So, when we um when he moved into

the home um out of his rental, it was

that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to still finish paying off um like electricity bills,

gas bill, things like that. So I told him, "Okay, how long did you need to do that?" And it was about two months.

>> Okay. >> And so when I was waiting for that time

frame, I had got a bill in the mail and

it was from the gas company. And when I

had asked them if he paid it, he told me yes. But when I end up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of $1,200 for a gas bill. So

>> And when you asked him about that, what did he say?

He told me that it was paid. Um, I never

informed him that I called him until a little later. And he told me that he would end up taking care of it.

>> I mean, when you said I called them and you lied, you didn't pay it. What did he say?

>> He just said that I did. It was It was just firm. He was firm about that he did pay it until I showed him like the bill.

>> And then was he like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance." We're just really trying to get an Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding of. Are you dealing with a liar or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic?

>> Right. >> It's more um he he has lied about many many things. Um which >> not just money it just surpris Yeah.

It's >> three months.

>> Yeah. It's been um I guess 10 months now. But three months into Yes. the marriage I found out that he was lying.

So everything before was being deceived in two separate homes while we were courting and things and then got married and now everything's in the home and I'm seeing it more vividly.

>> Okay. So here here's here's what I'm

trying to be clear about because there is part of this to Dave's point where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money and as they learn to get more organized things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married and I'm wondering what the communication sounds like because of the communication is did you pay the bill? Yeah. and you're keeping it to yourself.

No, he didn't. It's this much. Right. That all of that matters in this in this situation.

Now, what I do think is if he's lying and it they weren't past lies, but they're lies that are continuing on now and you know about them.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. You you have a big enough problem.

You need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now because your communication style isn't good. Because if at my house if I said, "Hey, Sharon, did you pay that?" She says, "Yes." And I went, "I'm gonna check." And I call and they go, "No, it's not paid." I would go, "Hey, I called them. They didn't pay it." I wouldn't wait 3 days and stew about it.

I'd walk in there right then and go, "Hey, what's up? You said you paid this, >> right?" >> Like right then. >> And she would be going, "I thought I did. I screwed up or I was I was ashamed or I was scared or whatever." But at least we get to the bottom of it right then. We don't carry it around for four weeks and and then label her a liar.

because >> that's a bad thing to be married to.

>> And what I'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying now he wants to combine money, but you're the one who's afraid to. So I'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying, "Okay, let's just put everything together. Then I don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here." But you're saying now I don't feel comfortable doing that. So are >> too late. You're married, >> right? Are you worried?

>> What can he do? What do you think he's going to do if you combine finances? Let me ask that question.

>> I think he's going to spend more because I'm uh like what does the term people use?

Like the bread winner. So I make majority of the funds. He helps pay like

since we didn't have a merge account. He would just send me like what does he make? What does he make?

>> Uh that's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So he works for a cable company and it's supposed to be quote unquote $12 an hour, but they have a point system. So, week to week, sometimes he says he makes $500.

Um, sometimes it's only$300.

>> So, would he be direct deposited into your joint account then if you combine finances? Is it, hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account, not you get paid and then put money into a merge account. All direct deposits go into the same account.

That's how it works and that's the only way we're doing, right? >> Then we know what he's making. Mhm.

>> And what do you make >> in the discussion?

Um, so I make uh 62,000 and some change

a year. Um, >> and how long did y'all date before you got married 3 months ago?

>> Uh, it was um

two years, about two years.

>> And how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last three months?

>> Uh, we've been going consistently.

It's like once every three weeks. And now he's going one-on-one with the counselor and I go one-on-one with a woman counselor. >> Okay. Well, that's good that you're doing that.

>> Um, and at some point we have to combine that process, too.

>> All right. Um, >> sometimes he's a bit of a spender as well. So, it kind of makes me That's I guess that's where it gets me a little ner here's the thing, okay?

If he does otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract now with his wife and then then we got a problem there. That's a different kind of problem. Okay. But you're not solving

a spender by staying separate from them.

>> Combining is the only way to get transparency and accountability on where

every dollar is going.

>> And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. >> Yeah. I'm not >> You have contempt all in your language.

Exactly. >> You're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject.

And that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. The primary reason people get divorced when contempt rolls in. So you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make it

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[Applause]

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>> Justin is in Chattanooga. Hi Justin. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you all so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Uh so I'm going to throw some numbers at you. Um >> my wife and I currently uh have total investments of approximately 875,000 in

retirement accounts. >> Mhm. >> We owe 390 on a mortgage at 5.875%.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh home estimate conservatively uh

probably 600,000.

>> Mhm.

uh we are uh inheriting a windfall from

an unexpected uh uh death in the family.

Um and I'm going to break that down for you because that's where the bulk of my question comes in. Um, we uh are getting

approximately 700,000 in a traditional

IRA, approximately 300,000 in a Roth IRA,

approximately 100,000 in a brokerage account, 12,000 in an HSA,

and 150,000 that's in an annuity with

two payout choices. one either lump sum,

which is what I'm leaning towards, versus uh leave it in the annuity for 10 years, let it grow, and then there's a payout at the end of 10 years.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> So, >> who passed away?

>> I'm sorry. It was an uncle that was very

uh much in excellent health and it was a very big surprise. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry to hear that, but you we found him. You're the guy that had the rich uncle. Who knew? Yeah.

>> So, yeah. I I I've listened to you for 15 years. I thought I would never be the one. >> Yeah. That's crazy, isn't it?

>> So, uh you want you want me to walk through that? Is that you want what you want us to do? >> Yeah. Well, the two goals are one is to pay off the mortgage and then we're also looking at possibly having my wife stay home with our children. Uh so, meeting those two goals is kind of what we're heading towards. And and how do I prioritize these accounts? Yes, sir.

>> Yeah. In terms of using them. Yeah.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. the annuity lump sum. You can roll that to a traditional IRA and have um

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're the beneficiary on the annuity.

>> That's correct. Yes, sir. >> Okay. That's just clear money then.

Okay. That's the We're going to use that and the brokerage towards the house. That gives me 250 of it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. The Roth um you can roll to a

Wroth and it can grow from the rest of your life tax-free. It's the last thing I'm touching. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um 12,000 HSA. I don't remember

the rules on that on an inherited HSA. I

suspect it's going to be just like your traditional IRA, which under Biden's new

laws, uh the Secure Act, he called it.

Uh tra inherited traditional IAS or

401ks have to be liquidated over a 10-year period of time because the taxes have not yet been paid on them. And when you liquidate them, you're going to pay income tax on that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that one you've got to take out over 10 years. Um, and I would sit

down with your Smart Investor Pro and determine how fast I'm going to take that out. But, I'm going to take out enough now >> to get the mortgage paid off.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And probably in the process, if I can't roll that HSA over, it's probably got to be cashed out, too. It's small.

I'm just going to go ahead and cash it out just for cleanliness.

>> Okay. So, the brokerage, the annuity, and the HSA are gone. The Roth is going to move on. We'll take enough out of the traditional plus taxes to finish off the

amount to pay the mortgage. Okay. Cuz I only got 250 in the first two, brokerage and annuity, right?

>> 2. >> How much was the annuity? >> Yep. Yep. Yep. 150. Yeah. 250 total.

Yes, sir. >> Yeah. 250 total. And I need 390. And so

you're going to pull some of that 700 out, enough to get to there and and enough to pay the taxes that it creates.

And then I'm going to pull the rest of that out gradually over time and to

avoid bracket creep on your income tax brackets. Uh so probably about a fiveyear pull on the balance of that, not a 10-year. And just as you pull it, it's just yours then. You can do with it. You don't have to roll it. You don't have to do anything. But that Wroth is sweet cuz it can continue in the Wroth.

And as young as you are, that 300 could be millions and millions just leaving it alone in good growth stock mutual funds.

Right now, as far as your wife being at home with your house paid off, which is

really all that's happening here, the rest of this is not going to create any cash today to amount to anything. Um,

can y'all live on your income with your house paid off?

>> We can live on just my income alone. um

we to kind of maintain the same lifestyle that we've had, we would need $12 to $1,500 a month. Um which wouldn't

cause a major draw down on any of this.

I wouldn't >> counting the house being paid off.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, you've done a great job of analyzing it. You know exactly where you are. >> If you're working not working with Smart Ver Pro, sit down with one and map through what we talked about. See if they agree with me. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't think I am. But then you could pull that 12-500 off that 7 what's left of that 700 real easy.

>> Okay. >> It's just taxable. >> It's just taxable. >> Yeah. My big my big concern was not bumping up in tax brackets and paying the government, you know, what I what we could use, you know, for other things.

>> Yeah. You're going to pay the government some this year to get enough out to pay the house off. >> Okay. >> And you might bump your tax bracket this year, but I'm going to go I'm I'm not going to worry about this year. in the coming years 26 and beyond. I'm going to

map out what you're talking about and avoid bracket creep.

>> Yes, sir. >> If possible. And you can do that on it's $15,000 a year is 1,200 bucks. You can do that. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That that that's all we need really. >> Yeah. That's not going to destroy your life or I mean mess up your bracket creep or any of that stuff.

>> And um I mean and you're aware that the bracket creep is is just a it's kind of a math brittle. It's not like if you move from 36 to 39%

I don't know what your income is but um that doesn't not move 3% on everything.

It's 3% on the last dollar.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, the first the first number of dollars are already going to be what they are. They don't that doesn't change.

But it just means I'm going to pay 39% on it instead of 36% on it because I didn't I didn't put a dial on it. Right? So, you want to dial it to where you just get right up to the edge and then don't pay that extra three on that bracket jump. >> And again, somebody that's doing a little bit of tax work with you can help you do that in your Smart Investor Pro can get that dialed in.

That's very cool. >> That is very good. Wow.

>> Yeah, man. Yeah. And he's already a millionaire, by the way, before we got here. It just goes to show what you can do to change someone's life when you yourself have your finances in order,

>> you know. >> So, he's now worth $2 million.

>> Yeah. Good for him. >> But he did not become a millionaire because of inherited money.

>> No, he was already there. >> He's already there barely. >> Yeah. >> Barely. And then he just doubled it.

>> Yep. That's >> what it amounts to. So, got about a million3 there, I think looks like.

Yeah. >> This guy's not changing his lifestyle hardly at all. He's gonna be the same.

You know what I'm saying? His wife will stay home. They'll pay off their house, but he's not gonna go out and do something crazy because he's been disciplined his whole life. Clearly, Roy's wanted to buy a yacht for $12,000 a month. >> And he didn't call me with that question. This guy's going to be fine. He's going he's got it all dialed in. He knows his numbers, knows exactly where they are. See, that's the thing.

>> Even if you didn't do stuff exactly the way we teach, >> if we can just get you to pay attention.

>> Yeah, >> that guy's paying attention. Mhm.

>> He knows exactly where he is. He's already had thoughts about every one of these things >> and he's paying attention. And so you have to be proactive and happen to your money, not have it happen to you. And when you're teaching the budgeting classes, that's what you talk about.

>> That's right. It's about you for the first time looking at everything and you stairst step on knowledge, right? That guy said he's been listening on and off for 15 years. And that's the way it goes.

That's the first step. And then after a while, that knowledge starts to compound on itself. And before you know it, you're just like, you know, the fellow that just called in here. >> Yeah. >> Fully in control. >> A couple of million million. Two and a half million. Yeah. >> In a heartbeat here. Wow. Very cool.

Very cool. So, by the way though, some

of you out there that are doing all your talking and your theories and everything, uh, Roth IAS are not subject

to the Secure Act when they're inherited

>> because they're taxfree.

And so I have moved everything I have.

I'm 65 into Roth at my baby step seven.

I heard you answering a question about that the other day. You were correct.

>> You know, you pay up pay taxes and convert to Roth. Pay taxes and convert with extra money cuz then it grows not only taxree for this generation, but also for the next generation. And they're not required to withdraw it.

>> They can just let it grow. Like that 300 Roth he had, he can let that one run.

The other one, he's got to cash it out cuz Biden wants his money.

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If you're out there running around and you're in the Nashville area, stop by and see us at Ramsey Solutions. We're down by Franklin, Tennessee, just a little bit south of Nashville. We got a big, beautiful campus and a wonderful reception area with a little museum in it and free cookies that are homemade.

Yum, yum. Free coffee that's homemade.

Yum, yum. Smiling people. And there's always 50 to 200 folks sitting out here watching us do the show. We do it on the glass from 1 to 4 central time every

Monday through Friday. And among the people sitting in or among the area where you sit in to watch the show is the debtree stage. People come there to do their debt-free screams. It's our favorite thing we get to do around here is to celebrate with people when they have won.

The only thing that's more favorite is when it's one of our own >> from Ramsey Solutions, one of our team members. And uh that's the case now on the debtfree stage. Shauna McCully, her husband Chad. Sean has been with us for 17 years in the finance and administration department of Ramsey.

a debt-free scream. Congratulations, guys.

So proud of you. Now you actually did this in staff meeting the other day when I was leading staff meeting. I got to be there when you did that and our staff just goes bananas. I mean 1100 people screaming when you did your debtree scream. Plus she's been here 17 years so everybody knows Shauna. Right. Right. And loves her and so forth. And you too Chad. Thanks.

>> All right. So uh how much debt have you paid off? >> $336,000.

>> And how long did this take? It took us 17 years >> and house and everything.

>> House and all. >> Okay. Very cool. Very cool. But there were a few stops along the way, shall we

say. I won't spo I won't spill the beans. I won't spoiler alert. I'll let you all tell the story.

>> Yeah. So, uh, just a few stops along the

way. We have a new baby in the beginning

of that. Mhm. >> Um we've paid cash for eight cars, two transmissions, over $100,000 in home repairs. >> Mhm. >> And um six years of cancer treatment >> for two different people.

>> Yeah. >> These two. >> These two right here. >> Yeah. >> So, how old is Lexi?

>> Alexa is about to be 20 in December.

>> Yeah. >> I remember when Shauna walked into the office and tears run down her face and said, "My baby's got cancer." And I went, "Whoa, I can't breathe." And she said, "Well, try being me. I can't breathe either." >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, "Well, we got your back. We're going to walk with you. Whatever it takes as you need, whatever you need through this." And >> for a little while, we had a little bald toddler running around here.

>> And uh she was cute. She was a cute little bald cancer survivor. Yeah.

>> It was very cool. The fact that you were surviving was made everybody happy. We weren't worried about your hair, I'll tell you that. And um neither was she.

>> Yeah. uh she wasn't old enough to even care hardly but um and then we get the word that she's beatated and uh comes the other side of it and then >> so then uh so she was 3 years old her

treatment went for three years uh and then I think 5 years later in 2017 I was

actually diagnosed with the same cancer that she had and beat and so I went through three and a half years worth of treatment uh to get through that. So, I'm I'm now 5 years out.

>> Yeah. Congratulations. And we walked with y'all through that, too. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. It was incredible.

>> And and watched you change from uh deputy sheriff to uh real estate uh extraordinaire agent. >> Yeah. >> There we go. And uh yeah, the whole thing. So, 17 years we've been doing this together. >> Yeah. It's been a it's been a wild ride.

>> Yeah. And now the house has paid off.

>> The house has paid off. >> And so, that's why we say 336,000 over 17 years. Now, we don't ask uh what they make because their 50 of their teammates are standing around. So, a little bit unfair to do that. So, we ask the rest of you what you make and you have to tell everybody in front of everybody. But, we let them off the hook on that.

So, but I mean, needless to say, >> um >> quite a bit of cancer in that 17 years and quite a bit of the rest of normal life >> in that 17 years and you still managed to walk through and get the house paid off. How's that feel?

>> It feels incredible. But I mean, even through cancer treatment and new cars and unexpected home repairs, we never

went back into debt, >> we always had an emergency fund or just

really great people around us that >> made sure that we never had to want for anything. >> Wow. So, how do you celebrate what happens next? You've come 17 years to

this moment.

>> So, travel.

>> Yeah.

uh immediately we're uh we're going to be getting some new cars. We got to update some of the cars that we're driving around. And so we're going to do that and then we're uh I mean the first thing that we did after or the first budget that we did when we didn't have a mortgage is we decided that we are going to give a heck of a lot more.

we're out having fun and we're doing it.

>> Cool. >> Very cool. I'm proud of y'all. Um

I think your story is a story of perseverance. >> Uh sticking with it forever >> and now you and now you get here. What's the secret to sticking with it? Because most people just quit.

they just throw up their hands and go, "Well, it's too hard." >> Yeah. And and for us, we had, you know, it was student loans and a mortgage. So, we never really got those small wins, you know, like the credit cards. We didn't we didn't have credit cards.

So, we didn't get the little small wins along the way. It was two big huge numbers. >> And the only thing that made us go is like the reason why why we're doing this, what's going to be on the other side of it? And we just had to keep going.

just get up every day and go and do it.

>> Yeah. Well, they also understood you were fighting a bear with a switch. I

mean, it was hard. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was hard. It was a process, man. And

the team made sure that that everything was good all the way all along the way. I watched them take care of y'all >> and they did a great job. >> Yeah. I mean, we have friends in the lobby today. We have one who paid our mortgage for 2 months. We have um a friend who when our transmission went out let me use his car for free for a month. I mean, we just had people love on us so well. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's the only way you get through it. And that's incredible. Wow.

So proud of y'all. Proud to call you friends. Proud to call you family. Glad you're on the team here. And uh yeah, you definitely need to do some traveling. You've earned it. You've you've paid the price to win. You've lived like no one else. And now you should by God live like no one else.

>> Absolutely. >> So I want you to get her a good car.

Chad, come on. >> We're working on it. >> All right. Here we go.

>> All right. $336,000 paid off in 17 years, including two different bouts of cancer. Several other items that are more normal that went at them, but they they stuck with it and pushed their way all the way through. I'm so proud of you guys. Chad and Shauna from Nashville, Tennessee, count it down. Let's hear a debtfree scream.

3 2 1. We're debtree.

[Music]

>> Wow.

>> Now, all you co-workers that are in here cheering him on, get back to work.

>> Dang, Dave.

>> The whole lobby's full of Ramsay out there. Everybody loves Shauna.

Oh boy. Oh boy. >> Oh, it's fun, man. >> Good for them. There's so there so many people would have given up. They didn't.

>> No, they didn't quit. They didn't quit.

And sometimes and they didn't go backwards. That was the other thing.

They never stopped and said, "Oh, well, you know, we got to we got to buy a car and we've got cancer and the transmission went out and so we had to take on a car payment." >> They didn't say that. They they just figured out a way to gut it through. Somebody loaned them a car, somebody helped them out. >> Somebody did that.

sometimes team members, sometimes neighbors, sometimes church members, whatever. And uh walking through the whole whole process. Pretty incredible. Very very well done.

And they're just neat people. They're just fun to be around. They're they're excellent. >> And obviously her again, the team just loves her.

Everybody's known about her story and their story all the way for for years now. Uh again, been on the our team here for 17 years as well. And that's when they started the process. So very cool stuff, man.

house and everything is paid off.

while. So, what about what about you?

What are you going to do? Yeah. Talking

to you. You know who I'm talking to.

What are you going to do? You keep being normal.

Have you not noticed that normal sucks?

Really? You don't want to be normal at anything? Gross. No, we won't be normal.

I want to be weird like Shauna and Chad, Addison and Alexa.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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[Music]

Top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? Well, unless your estate is over a million, I would actually say five or 10 million, you probably don't need anything but a will. Um, if you have a special needs child, you might want to put a special needs trust in the will that is formed upon your death. Uh,

and how is that funded? With life insurance, typically until you've built some wealth. What do you need to start your online will? Well, you need to think about things like who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your kids? Who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated? The medical power of attorney and so on. Is an online will legally valid? Absolutely they are.

They're valid with your state. By the way, probate law, the law that dictates whether a will works or not is state law. It is not federal law. And so, it's different from stateto state. What is required for a legal for a will to be legal and valid. If you move states and

you're residing in a different state when you die, your will from the other state might not be valid.

>> So, you need a new one.

>> And so, jump on ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz.

You can find out if an online will's right for you. We can help you with that with the Mama Bear folks. They do a great job and uh and or you know, hook

you up with an attorney even to get your if you've got a super complicated thing.

But most of the time, wills are not that

complicated. There's just a few items in there that you've got to get right.

>> And that includes the signature and notary pages, >> which some states have different witnessing requirements and notary requirements. And that that's the one biggest thing that causes them to become invalid. >> Yeah. >> Uh and so, yeah, just jump in and get that stuff done, folks. Jay's in Phoenix. Hi, Jay. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? Um, so I'm 27 years old. My fiance is 29 and we are $85,000

in debt. Uh, I make a h 100,000 a year.

She stays at home raising our two kids uh doing full-time schooling and we are also going to be having twins here uh in about five months. >> Wow. >> So, I'm uh yeah, I got a lot going on there.

But uh so I'm looking to get into uh

home ownership after getting out of debt, of course. Uh right now we just rent an apartment. Um and you know, real

estate's always appealed to me. I definitely want to start off with like a duplex or a forplex. Uh but before that,

obviously, I just want to figure out how we should prioritize paying off all this

debt that we have. And also um later on

uh towards you know my my early 30s I'm looking at switching careers and pursuing a pilot's license which obviously I have to pay about $100,000 for and definitely don't want to go into debt for that. >> All right. >> Any advice? >> Yeah, you I do have some advice. You got a lot going on. So my first piece of advice is just to focus on one thing at a time or at least whatever the matters are at hand because you're talking about a forplex talking about flying planes.

You've got twins coming in 5 months and

the first thing I think on the table is the debt to talk about, but the the the biggest thing is these twins that are on the way, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, I agree with you. I think the $85,000 in debt needs to be paid off.

However, focusing on the matter at hand is these twins. And so I think the first thing that you're going to need to do is stack up the money as though you were paying off the 85,000. But instead of paying it off, just set it aside because we want to make sure that everything is good with your wife, with the twins, with the hospital bill, everything like that is square before we take all of our income and start, you know, pounding this debt with it. Make sense?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Whose whose health insurance is covering this?

>> Uh that's a great question. So, uh, unfortunately, uh, I don't really have any health insurance. Uh, my fiance

doesn't either. She's actually in the process of getting, uh, you know, state insurance, which is kind of difficult, um, in Arizona. So, worst case scenario, if she's not able to do that, then I will just figure out how to, um, pay for

an insurance policy for her.

>> A little late, she's already got two babies coming, >> so uh, getting that covered is going to be an interesting process. Um,

all right.

So, the first thing I would do is get married this weekend.

I am really worried about your fiance.

She's getting ready to have four children, no income, and no husband.

That ain't cool. You owe her more than that. So, I'd get married this weekend.

She's so exposed right now. financially and legally and everything else that it is terrifying to me. I know you think everything's going to be okay. But the only thing I'm sure of as an old man is that everything is not ever okay.

Nothing ever turns out exactly like it's supposed to ever. And so you have to put everything in place you can to make sure you play defense as well. And so I'd get married this weekend. I'd get this insurance thing straightened out and then I would do what Jade's saying and then start stacking cash as high as you can stack it because if you're ever going to have a problem with a pregnancy, the probabilities are much higher when you've got multiples.

>> When were you planning to get married?

When was it on the books for?

>> Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, the only reason why we haven't actually legally got married yet is because, you know, her schooling right now, uh, she's not going to get the financial aid or assistance to be able to do that for free if we get married.

>> So, I don't want my wife to get off of welfare, so I don't want my girlfriend to get off welfare, so I'm not going to marry her. >> That's what you just said, dude. That's not okay. So, her schooling is way not a

problem. She's full-time taking care of kids. >> Mhm. So, she didn't need to worry about school right now anyway. >> Yeah. You said she was going to be a stay-at-home mom. So, that's a moot point. >> Yeah. I'll we'll go back to school when we get out of debt and can save up some money. But if the only way you get money is appearing to be poor by shacking up versus being married, that's insincere.

Sorry. I'm going to call you on that one. And so, sorry, not sorry. So yeah,

I'm telling you, man, for her sake, I'm begging her to force you into the preachers's office this weekend.

>> Yeah. >> And and let's get this solved now. Then I'm going to pile up cash as high as I can pile it up. And then when babies and mommy come home and we pay whatever medical bills that we don't get covered by this forced place insurance policy, and I don't know what you're going to end up with there, >> it's going to be expensive. >> But um you've got to cover those bills.

And again, twins are more than twice as expensive as singles. And so, uh, there's just stuff that's going on there. And, uh, so we just want to be prepared for all that. Then when whatever money is left from that stack, when mama and babies come home healthy and everything's good, we apply to the debt snowball.

And that's where we list it, Jay. Smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one with a vengeance.

When it's gone, attack the next one. When it's gone, attack the next one. Every time you pay off one, the payments that you don't have there anymore will help you pay off the next one. the snowball rolls over, picks up more snow.

a year if I wrote this down right.

>> Yeah, that's right. But he needs to be going. >> You live in Phoenix, Arizona, and you have now five children.

>> Yeah, I I heard that right. He needs to be going hard in the paint until these twins are born and even after because this is about to be an expensive life.

>> Yeah, you're getting ready to have an expensive life after they come, >> before they come, too. and as they come.

And so we've got to take care of every bit of that. And then um then when we get out of debt, we'll start worrying about an emergency fund.

When we get that done, we'll start talking about a down payment on a house.

>> So you're three to five years out from home ownership.

And that's if you work a lot and you get good raises and you're very very very careful with your money. That's about where you'll be somewhere in there. And it's doable. Mhm. >> It's not impossible, but you're going to have to start making better plans and better decisions than you've made to this point to push these things away. If some of that $85,000 is a $55,000 car you drive, sell it, my friend.

>> Agree. Yeah. >> Sell it and get your life back. It owns you. You don't own it. Uh but if it's just $75,000 in student loans, you can't do that. >> Yeah. Just >> So that's the thing.

>> All right. I have now interviewed

personally thousands and thousands and thousands of millionaires. Ramsey Research has interviewed over 10,000. I've talked to

multiple billionaires that are first generation rich. The number of them that got there because the government paid

for some part of their life is zero.

If your best plan is to figure out the way for the government to pay for some part of your life, you are not going to be successful in this life.

Reset your thinking. Success does not come from Washington DC. Santa Claus does not live there. I know him. He lives in the North Pole.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome, welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

Jade Wshaw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Lucy is in North Carolina. Hi, Lucy. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for talking to me. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I wanted to reach out about um just a situation that my husband and I are in. I don't really know what to do from here. So, the backstory is um in 2020,

really at the peak of COVID, um we

actually moved to the mission field. We were missionaries u for two years in the

Dominican Republic. And once our two-year contract with the ministry was over, we um flew back to North Carolina

and um my husband went straight back to work and I actually um got pregnant over

there while we were on the mission field. So we came back with another little one and um I actually started

working in in North Carolina as well. We put him in daycare. We quickly realized that the amount that I was making did not justify me working. So my husband and I agreed um that staying home um me

staying home with our child was the best option and things got a lot better for us just in our marriage. Um but soon we

realized that we were running out of anything that we had left. Um we were missionary so we didn't have a lot to begin with but um we really just don't

know what to do from here. He's currently getting his um license to be

an electrician. So, he's getting his hours and then he can take the the test to be certified. I also um stay home

with um our second child. We've had another child since then. And we use our credit card um to pay for things like

gas to put in our cars and groceries. We just we ran the numbers about 6 months to a year ago and we're in the red. So, like we don't have anything left over to put into savings or to put anything extra on a bill. um we're about $50,000

in debt. So that's um both of our student loans combined. Um and then his truck payment, which he owes about $7,000 on that. And then um we owe about

5,000 on something on um or sorry, another 8,000 on our credit card. So that's what that is. Um but we're renting our um our little house right now. It's two bed, one bath. So it's very small. Um we don't live beyond our

means. We >> Yes, you do. You just said you did.

>> What do you mean? >> You spend more than you make.

>> Oh, yes. Yeah. And >> that's the definition of living beyond your means. >> What exactly What exactly do you make? I know you said your husband's studying to be an electrician, but what's he making now? >> So, his gross income is about 70 grand.

He works two jobs to help keep me at home. >> Um, but like when I say that we don't

live beyond our means, what I meant by that was >> you're not living fancy. >> Mhm. Right. Right. We're not >> I didn't think you were doing fancy, but you are spending more than you make.

That's not sustainable mathematically.

You're That's why you're calling because it's freaking you out and rightly so.

>> What job were you doing? What job were you doing before you had the two kids?

>> So, when we moved back from the mission field, I got a job as um at Chick-fil-A

actually, but I was their uh office manager. So, I did all of their numbers.

I ran I did their credit. I did all of their bills. I did, let's see, I was

making 19 an hour.

>> Okay. What' you bring home every month?

>> Uh, I don't remember. Um, I worked 40 hours a week. So, I mean, I can do the math really quick. >> Well, the the reason I was asking is because you guys need money. Like, there's two parts of this equation. When things are tight like this, you can cut everything from the budget, right? But if you're not bringing in enough money, the next part is now we have to work more. and you said your husband's making working two jobs to bring in the 70k.

The first thing that you said earlier was when you had the one who was in daycare, you guys said that you weren't making enough. And I'm like, I have two kids, you know, I know it costs >> $1,200 for one kid to go to, you know, daycare for the month. And I'm like, surely you were making over $1,200 a month. Um, now with the second kid, I don't know. How old are they now?

>> So, my little my oldest will be four this month and then my youngest will be two in January. >> Okay. So, you got a house full.

>> Yeah, you do. Next year, one of them will be going to daycare or to kindergarten. But my question is, do you I guess my bigger question is, can you make more than 3,000 bucks a month, which is what daycare costs >> or can you work from home while the kids nap? >> That's another question.

>> Well, I do sell I do sell sourdough on the side. So, I do bring in, you know, sometimes it's $100 a week, sometimes it 20. >> You do what? She sells sourdough, which that's great, but I'm talking about solving your big problem. Yeah.

>> Different kind of bread, >> like real bread. Yeah.

>> $20 or $100 does not solve this problem.

No, I'm talking about you get an extra job that you work from home four hours a day while the kids are napping. >> Yeah. Or a call center thing that you pick up at night when they've gone to bed. >> Yeah. And your husband's not doing that much extra. When does he pass his license?

>> Um I believe he has about two years left. trees. >> Here's the thing. I want to I'm going to level set this because uh there's part of this if you know you called us, there's not going to be a quick fix for this and everything that we're going to suggest is going to be uh it's going to feel very off-putting and none of it's going to be convenient.

So, that's part of this that you kind of have to if you can accept that point and get to acceptance there, then you'll be able to do this. But if you're looking for something that's gonna kind of allow you to keep doing what you were doing and not really notice, then we don't have that solution. You're gonna like this is gonna hurt >> because you need the money. You know what I'm saying?

And that's the hard part. >> Yeah. You're in a mess. >> And it's it's an it's an income versus outgo issue.

>> And your outcome, as you said, is not fancy.

>> And so he's making good money, but not great money. >> You didn't call me up with him making 170, making 70 and two years before he gets a bump. >> Yeah. How much is rent?

>> It's 1,100. >> Not bad. Not bad. Okay. So, what what's

his extra job?

We dropped You dropped out. Come back again. >> He does trash valet. So, he goes to apartment complexes and he picks up their trash. >> Why does he not do electrician as his extra job?

>> I don't know. I don't know that he's ever really looked into that.

>> It's a lot more than trash valet.

>> I don't have to look into it to know that. >> You'd be surprised. He makes 25 for electrician right now and then he makes 22 for his trash.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's >> Yeah, but I'm saying um I'm going to guess and say if he helped guys wire houses cuz I'm thinking he's running a union track, right?

>> No, sir. He works um No, he he he does

residential electrician right now. Oh, >> okay. All right. Yeah. I I'd be shocked

if he couldn't get some overtime doing that or work for someone else to do that

on the weekends. Um cuz he has the knowledge. He just doesn't have the license. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And um but I I don't care. Um he's

going to have to work until he's just completely exhausted to get these numbers fixed. And you are going to have to pick up some income of some kind that's not $20 sourdough bread. That's real money. >> And I need I need you doing something that's 3, four hours a day and you're making a couple grand a month >> and you put that in there. This thing starts to turn right side up and you can begin to pay extra on these things. Make sure you're putting nothing in retirement. Make sure you're not getting a tax refund.

If they're taking too much out of his checks and you're getting a tax refund every year, you need to correct those W2s and bring the right amount home, which is more than you've been bringing home. Don't loan the government money all year and then get it back. That's called a tax refund. Don't do that. Um,

and look around and figure out what else we've got that is that doesn't fit this scenario anymore. And um, yeah, that I'm

with Jade. This is going to hurt. It's going to it's going to be harder before it gets easier. >> Yeah, that's right.

[Music]

Real estate's wild out there. Interest rates are dropping, boys and girls. If you notice, we're down to five and a half on 15-year fixed.

>> Wow. Market is picking up. Prices are

starting to tick up already. Inventory is ticking up already. It's a crazy time. If you're going to list or sell a house, you need a pro in your corner.

High octane, high protein, not Aunt Sally, who got her license 3 weeks ago.

She's going to screw up the deal.

>> Oh boy. >> I know she's your aunt. I know she's sweet. And you might want some of her sourdough bread, but don't buy real estate from her. Okay, that's it.

Period. So, don't do that. Now, go to Ramsey Trusted and we have vetted these agents. They're the top agents in the nation. They'll help you get the right

house in the right way, the Ramsey way,

and you can trust them. We've spent a lot of time coaching them, training them, doing due diligence on them. They are the top performers in your area. To learn more for free, go to ramseysolutions.com/market and we'll help you out with all of that.

Lynn is in Philadelphia. Hi, Lynn. How are you? >> I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, uh, my husband and I, we currently live in the Philadelphia area and we're talking about moving to the Charleston area. Um, once this school year is over,

>> the issue is that, >> uh, cuz that's where his parents are and, um, his family and we've been up

here for 20 years, we kind of want to be down there now. >> Like, no family ties in Philly. None at

all. Okay. My whole family is east like

in Maryland and yeah, no family ties in

this area. >> Is there a job there in Charleston?

>> For him, he is work from home. So home is where the Wi-Fi is. It doesn't matter where he is. >> Uh the issue is my job. My job I can't

do my job is specific to my area. I

can't do this job in another state. And

this job doesn't quite exist in the same capacity in the Charleston area

down there. What's your job? So, I'm What's >> I'm a supports coordinator. I help individuals with intellectual disabilities get funding to Medicaid and

Medicare to pay for staffing and supports and living expenses expenses

and things like that. >> Medicaid and Medicare are federal programs. >> Yes. But um the f So it's a weird like

the state pays a certain amount.

>> Yes, that's true. Okay.

>> Yeah. So >> and South Carolina doesn't have the same program. >> It doesn't it it it doesn't at all. It

doesn't have the same infrastructure. It doesn't have the same kinds of jobs. It has similar things.

>> Yeah. What do you make? >> So similar I make 50k right now.

>> Well, you can find 50k in Charleston.

>> Yeah. I was going to say at the at the lowest like at the most common level what is the job? Is it management? Is it logist? Like is it project management?

What is the act? Does that make sense?

>> What's the task? >> Social social work.

>> Social work. Okay. So there's something social work existent in Charleston. It just may not be exactly in the field that you were before. Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I've been looking like I'm I'm already like preemptively job hunting and looking. It's there would be anywhere from a $10 to $20,000 pay cut.

>> You haven't finished your job search yet.

>> I've been to Charleston, South Carolina.

It's not 50% of Philadelphia. I'm sorry.

>> What's your husband make? >> Wrong. Wrong. Bad. No. No.

>> My husband makes about 120 125 a year.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, no, I I you know, but he makes that wherever he goes. And you're going to sell the house. You have own You own a home there in Philly? >> We own a home. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to make I'm going to make my my decision.

>> My flowchart is when I get a job, we move >> and so I need to get a job now and I don't have to take a pay cut to get a job. I disagree. I want a pay increase.

Now, let's reset our mind. >> Love a pay increase. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, let's let's be realistic.

You have a you have a unique set of skills, but the nuanced information that you have is useless there. and you told me and I believe you. Yeah. >> In in Charleston.

But the big picture type of information you have and the ability to manipulate programs and pull them together for other people's benefit is a skill not many people have. Now, I don't know exactly where that applies in Charleston, but uh I want you to start thinking a little bit broader. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

um which might be like our worst case scenario if you don't get the job with the raise like I'm suggesting that you get a job close to your old pay with the potential for a raise by getting in the proximity of people doing what it is you want to end up doing.

>> But once we kill the idea that you're going to find the exact program, which I'm buying you on that one, I think you're right. um because I did leave out

the part where Medicaid and Medicare is state uh half of it state funded.

>> So uh and some states are more sophisticated in their application of that stuff than others. So I'm I'm going with you. South Carolina probably doesn't have that program, but they've got other ones >> and they've got stuff that's so to the

layman looking in from the outside that's so similar, but to you it looks way different and that's the one you need to be doing. And I don't know what it is exactly, but you have the unique

um gifting of working with special needs

and working with the government program to pull things together to cause people's lives to be benefited.

>> That's a gift. And not many people can do the things that you do. So, I've just got to find a place to apply that that adds enough value that they're paying a measly 50 grand. It's not like you're trying to look for a half million dollar job. It's a $50,000 job. You can make that almost at Target working 40 hours a week. I mean, it's 20 bucks an hour now at Target. So, um, you know, that's I I

want you to kind of get in that mindset that this is not a it's certainly not a

$20,000 I wouldn't accept a $20,000 job. That's a cut by 20,000. No, no, no, no. So, hang on. We'll have the Christian pick up and send you all that stuff. I think you're better than you're giving yourself credit for. But you need to pan back and have a broader >> vision of how your skill sets can apply.

>> And when you do that, you're going to land the job. And when you do that, you're going to move.

>> Um and and that's how I would do it.

Don't set yourself up to end we had to move. You don't have to move. There's no hurry. The only hurry is emotions.

You're wanting to move. I don't blame you. >> Yeah, that's true. >> I'm once I get my mind already in Charleston, it's hard to do anything. That's it's hard to do that. But yeah, think think that through that way.

Folks, let me tell you something that Ken Coleman and I have talked about for years and Jade has been in on these discussions.

There's something about

changing jobs uh against your will.

>> Oh, >> you get laid off or your husband moves and gets transferred. So, you got to go get a new job >> or get fired or whatever.

>> It's interesting that the human brain for some reason, we've noticed this with people immediately thinks that I have to

get paid less, that I lost my job and I couldn't find another job and so I get paid less.

as opposed to you were sitting there in

the job, everything's going good, and somebody calls you up and offers you $20,000 more than you used to make, >> right? Why can't it be glass half full?

>> And you go, you go, "Well, of course, I'm going to do that." And so you leave and you go take the new job with a $20,000, $30,000, $50,000 raise, right?

But that job was there for the person that does the same job you do that got laid off two weeks ago somewhere else.

Mhm. >> And they don't think about the $70,000 in her case, $20,000 raise.

>> They think about the $30,000 >> for some reason. It's something about, >> well, I just can't do that. And so I end up with less. >> Yeah. >> And >> that is just a mindset thing. And I remember motivational speaker many, many years ago telling the story. He said, "Let's pretend that you went to New York City and you were interviewing for a job and you really didn't think you were good enough to get the job. you your confidence wasn't strong.

The morning you get ready to walk out of the hotel room to do the interview, the phone rings and it's your wife and she says, "We just won the lottery. We got a million dollars. Don't go interview.

Just come home." And you go to your, "Well, what have I got to lose? I'll just go down and talk to him anyway." >> But now you don't need the job anymore.

>> Right? >> And you walk in and you get the job plus a signing bonus because you didn't need the job. And then you come back to your room and the wife says, "Oh, you know, we made a mistake.

>> We didn't get the all." What changed there? Nothing except your mindset.

>> Yeah, that's good. >> Your mindset changed and how you approached how you walked in to do the job interview, the way you carried yourself, your voice tone, the pace of your voice, the energy level you had, that last little shine on the shoes, whatever it was. >> That's good.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jose and Janine are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Good. >> Good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? >> Live in uh Ring, New Hampshire, which is about 40 minutes west of Manchester, New Hampshire. >> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. That's a bit of a haul. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off?

Um, so we paid off $283,218.

>> Wow. >> Wow. Good for you. How long did that take? >> Took us nine years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that nine years?

>> So our starting income was uh 112,973.

Our ending income was 133577.

>> Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

>> Customer service.

>> And I'm in sales. Uh, sell packaging.

>> Very cool. Good for y'all. And is the 283 your house?

>> 283 is our house.

>> I'm looking at weird people.

>> Yes, you are. >> Why you've got the t-shirts on that say it's okay to be weird. I like it.

Congratulations, you two. What's this house worth? >> So, the house is worth 466,000.

>> I like it. Good for you. And how much money is saved in retirement?

>> We've got uh 587 uh saved in retirement.

We're looking at Baby Steps Millionaires. >> Way to go, guys. >> Y'all are so weird. I'm proud of you.

Well done. Well done. How many millionaires in your family?

>> Zero. >> One. >> Wow. One. You.

>> Jose. How old are you?

>> I'm 52. >> Wow. Way to go. >> Good job, you guys. That is amazing. I'm so proud of you. >> Thank you. >> Did you ever think when the two of you pups got married a couple years back, how long you all been married? >> We're celebrating our 20 year anniversary. Oh, 20 years ago, you looked down and did you ever think?

>> Never. >> No. >> No. We kept saying someday.

>> Yeah. But how?

>> Realize someday wasn't on the calendar.

>> Oh. So, what's what sparked it then? I mean, what caused you from going to from someday to today's the day?

>> Uh, so I was lucky enough to have a really good friend, uh, Jason Gardner, mentor of mine, who, uh, actually shared your podcast with me. uh we'd go to the gym regularly and he said, "Hey, I think you should listen to this guy." And um kind of had me in the car locked for half hour or so, so we'd listen to your show. And uh I made the big mistake. I got I you know, got on board and uh came home and I said, "I got this great plan, honey.

We're going to sell your car." >> You know, you did it. I did it.

stepped in it big.

>> How long did it take to get your foot out of that? Oh. Uh, a while actually.

Yeah. >> Took a little while. >> Janine. Jannine, I want to hear that from your side.

>> He said, "I have this plan. I want to sell you a car." And I went, "Oh, no, you're not.

>> You need a new plan." >> Uhhuh. Yeah. >> So, how did you get on board then?

>> What happened? How did you bring that around? How'd you straighten that mess up, Jose? So, uh, actually listening to someone else's, uh, debtfree scream, uh, I remember somebody saying, um, your why

has to be bigger than your butt. And I just found that comment to be funny, but it stuck with me because we needed to have a strong enough reason for why we were going to do this and why we wanted to get out of debt. And, uh, ultimately

that reason was we didn't really know

anyone who has was debtree. We didn't uh

you know, but we knew that we wanted to do this journey because we didn't want to grow old and still be working beyond our retirement years. We wanted to be able to enjoy our retirement. Um you know, as as David, you know, as you say, live and give like like never before so later you can live and give like never before. And that was our main goal.

>> Yeah. >> Way to go you two.

>> So Janine, when you all sat down and started talking about the why, that's when we figured out what we got to do, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It it took a little while of sitting

down and budgeting and letting my guard down.

>> The wall was was there.

>> Yeah. Sure. Sure. That's fair. Well, it should be. >> I mean, you got you have to have you have to go what? You got another scheme?

>> Yeah. >> Got a little scam. Yeah. >> We're going to have a yard sale. We're going to sell your car. We're going to we're going to sell everything. >> And somehow it was all your stuff.

>> Who knew?

Oh boy. >> So great. That is great. Well, I'm proud of you guys. Very, very well done. Who was cheering you on while you were doing this? >> Uh, so we've got we've got our friend uh Jason and uh uh there was a couple other guys that uh I was able to work with that uh are also cheering us on. Uh Mike Leone and a few others, Evangard. And uh

they're they're actually following your plan now because of um because of our story. And so it's exciting. Yeah.

>> Yay. It's spreading. >> That's great. I like it. >> What are you going to do to celebrate?

>> We're going to have a really good dinner tonight.

>> We are going out to eat. Go for it.

>> Have you booked a restaurant already? You're here in Nashville. >> Oh, no. Not yet. >> Oh, well got to get on it.

>> And there's some good food in Nashville now. You can go You can go big here now.

And guess what? You're millionaires without a house payment. Go big.

>> That's right. >> Go big. Enjoy that bottle of wine. Yeah.

>> I want you to. That's fabulous.

Congratulations, you guys.

>> Thank you. Very cool. So, what do y'all tell people? The key to getting out of debt is >> submit um submit to somebody else's plan. That's a that is a proven success. Cuz it wasn't until I did that that I started seeing my life change. Um when I came to Christ, I submitted to him. When I came to my finances, I submitted to this plan. And um it's been it's been just a

a beautiful beautiful >> very cool. What do you tell people, Janine? >> Intentional. You need to be intentional.

>> Yeah. I >> And those are good words. >> Yeah.

>> Intentional and submit. Good words. Good

words. That is exactly how it works. And so, yeah, if you're going to hire a personal trainer and he's got a six-pack and you got a keg, you probably ought to listen. >> Yeah. you know, probably ought to submit

>> there's something going on there. Some there's a difference between these two things. This is a Sesame Street moment.

One of these things is not like the other. And so, yeah, that's the thing, man. It's it's true about everything we do. We all have to find something. Um, and it's uh, you know, and it is helpful

when you have Christ in your life because you've already learned how to submit to a a greater power that loves you. Amen. It's got a plan. That's that's, you know, and it's not it's to bring you hope and not bring you harm and so on.

And so then when you come along to something else, it's a biblical concept like these concepts and you go, "Okay, I'm going to submit to that and we're going to do that that way." And then you do another one and then you do another one and it's it's amazing what happens to your life.

>> So, so proud of y'all. Way to go. Very, very cool. Uh, I don't know if I've talked to a millionaire today. >> That's pretty cool. >> That's pretty cool. >> I need to get my daily quota. That's right. All right. Jose and Janine, Manchester, New Hampshire. 283,000 paid

off. House and everything. Baby steps millionaires by 52 years old. Making 112

to 133. Count it down. Let's hear a

debtree scream.

>> Three, two, one. We're debtree.

>> Woohoo.

Yeah.

>> Oh, look at them. >> I love it. >> So good. >> I love it. They uh 20 years married, came from New Hampshire to do this.

dressed the part, had the t-shirts, the matching dress, the whole bit, >> and uh got it dialed in, man.

>> But look, like you can see it brought them together. Like you can see that.

Yeah, man. >> Once once she once he got over trying to sell her car. Yeah.

>> Right. >> Wow. Very well done. Very well done.

That's what it is. I mean, we almost never find a couple like never that are

um at odds with each other that hate

each other that do this. Of course, >> you know, we never find people that uh that it's easy. >> Mhm. >> I mean, occasionally we run into one of those. They they they something happens, they get some easy money, but most of the time these debtfree screams, I mean, this is nine years.

>> Yep. Yep. >> In a in a world where people can't stick with something for nine minutes >> and they stuck with it for nine freaking years. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Yeah. >> Number one character quality of successful people, perseverance. They don't quit. They don't quit. They don't quit. >> Nine years. That's where all that emotion comes from. Nine years.

>> Yeah. And now they win. I love it. I love it. I love it.

[Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

Our

scripture of the day, Romans 16:19.

Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you. But I want

you to be wise about what is good and innocent about what is evil.

Thomas Soul said, "Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded

good."

>> That's >> That's interesting. >> That's just dead on right there. He's a quote. He's a quote machine. Uh Beth is in Texas. Hi Beth. How are you?

>> I'm good. Mr. Ramsey and Jay, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a longtime fan. >> Thank you. How can we help? >> Um, I'm hoping to make this question efficient because I feel like a lot can be packed into it, but my husband and I both come from I I would say extreme wealthy families and we have five children of our own. Um, and some our

older ones are dating with the purpose of marriage now and excuse me, how we can navigate potential marriages and

prenuptual agreements and just I was just wondering how you handled your children getting married. >> What a great question.

So how much how much you said extreme we so you and your it's all in your you and your husband's name now right?

>> No. Um so what my my side

>> and his side both is they both have

wealth of their own and um so

>> one side has given all of our children a lot of stock. I mean, and you know, between 150 and 200,000 in stock, and

then when they're 16, they get a vehicle. Um, and then they're possibly going to get a house. And so, just things things like that with me staying on top of entitlement. I promise you, I promise you, I'm really working on that.

But, um, you know, letting them enjoy their their grandchildren and seeing them getting to enjoy it, but also

making sure that they stay servant-minded and and not, you know,

there there's just a lot in that. There's just a lot in that. But >> there is there's a there's a weird combination between >> It is. It's hard. It's um I I now that

I'm the other side of it and we're on the grandkids and the kids have all been married for at least a decade. All three all Gen Two Ramsies are been married at least a decade and I'm so I'm kind of past it. I look back and I I used to say I hit the son-in-law lottery and then I went uh no, I actually told my girls

taught my girls how to pick and they picked good ones because I run off the losers, you know. And um so I

the instruction and the lack of entitlement and the spiritual underpinning is more responsible for ours

um picking well and more responsible

than as a result of that for not um

not having the need for a prenup and not having um the attitude that it matters,

Right. >> Um, so

>> can I can I I want to jump in as a as

devil's advocate a bit. So sometimes we get the call from the actual spouse, the

person who's going to marry someone and they say, "Hey, I have a lot of money and I have a lot of money in my family and I'm thinking about doing this prenup." And we're not necessarily against them when there's a certain number of money involved. So how do you >> mainly if there's a large discrepancy?

>> Yeah. Where do you where does that line fall? >> Well, Beth, you and your husband both had wealth in the background.

>> You're both second gen wealth, right?

>> And we both we we signed a prenup and we've been married 21 years this month.

>> Okay. >> Um, and that's okay if you just do that.

If you just do that straight up, >> if there's a concern and you just do that straight up because you're talking about a million dollars or something. You're not talking about 10 million. You're not talking about 100 million. >> No, no, we're talking I mean it's it's over 50 million each side. I mean, and >> not yet. Uh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying potential and >> Okay. Now, there's two different subjects. Okay. The sub subject number one is the current asset base of the person getting married.

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. >> And that's under a million.

>> It is >> 200,000 in stock, maybe a house, right?

And so, um, so that's not that's not as big a concern. If they lost all of that in a nasty divorce because there was no prenup, then we would be no big deal

because they're getting 50 million.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that that's >> it's the difference between their personal wealth and your family's.

>> So, I I would spend 90% of my energy on

training the child even as an adult >> prior to marriage. >> Absolutely. >> That they are not the owner. They're the manager of God's resources. And it sounds like you're already doing all of that. Okay. Yes, sir. You leaned in immediately on no entitlement. You know, you you know, you're not raising trust fund babies. Damn it. You know, that's what you said, right? I heard you.

>> Yes, sir. >> I heard you and I like that. Okay. So, now that solves part of it. Now, then the second part is the generational wealth. The I can give you a fix for that. That's no prenups that we did.

Okay. We did that with the uh Ramsay

company, Ramsey Solutions Company. Uh,

it goes to the Ramsey Children's Trust.

>> Yes, sir. >> The stock is owned by the trust. Okay.

And the terms of the trust are you have to be blood relative.

>> Okay? >> Or you can't touch it.

>> So they're out. So the outlaws are out.

Period. And no divorce court judge can can interfere with that trust in any state. And so the trust has more power than divorce court judge. So that trust

that no if if something happens with one of my kids and they get divorced, their

spouse is not going to end up owning part of this >> because this is in the trust. And so you could take portions of that wealth, whether it's a piece of large piece of property or a series of properties, the ranch, whatever it is, a a a segment of

whatever, and leave it into a children's trust. There's other estate planning benefits to that, too, by the way, uh, that your estate planner can help you with. And you need some estate planning if you're sitting on 50 million because you got a problem generational. You got a problem.

You're going to blow out the exemptions and have estate tax. Um, unless that stuff's already in a trust of some kind. So, you've got some generational skipping trust stuff to learn about and do. But anyway, the way we one of our largest assets is this company.

And probably our second largest assets is this campus. and both of them are owned by the children's trust. And so some of the other stuff they might get or not get in a divorce because it's not in trust and there's not any prenups. Um but that's how we did it.

put the big stuff in the trust at death or before death and the trust has a no

one but blood. So grandkids are in but

uh if if you're you know you weren't born a Ramsay, you're not in it >> no matter what. husband's side is is got quite a bit of that like what he's he's got a trust that has some sort of that stuff in it. >> Yeah. >> Um and but our our my side um I it's not

talked about as much but we're getting there. >> You need to because it's going to cost you $10 million if you don't.

>> Yes, sir. I know. Believe me.

>> Yeah. It's uh but anyway, once you get that settled, it once it's in your control, your will could state that it's left to a children's trust, >> whatever it is, >> and you could have that same provision I've got. And then there's no need for a prenup. >> Okay. So, I mean, >> but they still can end up trust fund babies if you don't do the other stuff.

>> Oh, I'm telling you, we don't need that.

>> No, they can be. I mean, you leave them money, they can be idiots, right? I I know you gota train them when you preach to them it's not ours like we are stewards of God and that's >> and you'll know that they get that if they feel the weight of the wealth

>> rather than the celebration like they hit the lottery.

>> Yes sir. For sure.

>> Sometimes I I see our kids shoulders drop >> like this like there's a burden of this.

There is it's a burden to it.

>> It it can be. >> You got you have to manage it. You have to manage it for Jesus. That's your job.

>> Just to and to honor my my parents for working so hard to honor. It's it's a big responsibility. But he didn't mess up. God didn't mess up. He knew.

>> No, it's not it's not a mistake.

>> It's not a mistake. And somebody's got to manage it. It might as well not be the other side. >> That's right. That's right.

>> Yeah. I mean, this idea so you you can manage it for God's glory. And that includes taking care of your family >> and that includes some enjoyment of the money, but not exclusive enjoyment of the money. It includes working.

Our kids have to work. You're not in the trust if you don't work. So, if you're on the back of a yacht doing cocaine with your girlfriend while you're married to somebody else, you don't you're not in the trust anymore. You're done.

Uh you can you can lose that, too. So, yeah. I mean, we put provisions in there to take care of this stuff cuz we want it to be a blessing and not a curse. And that's the bottom line of what she's asking.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> And it and it can be done, but most of it is in the training of the next generation.

Most of it.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 276. Your Bank Account Shouldn’t Define You | April 15, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcrGsXpPehA) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:36:33 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by my pal and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Nia is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Nia, did I get that right or is it Nia?

>> Nia. >> Yes, first try. All right, we're off to a great start. Nia, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, so I was just wondering kind of um what me and my husband should set up our budget on. Just to give you a quick backstory, me and my husband, we eloped.

We got married early because we wanted to just have a good foundation going forward into our wedding as far as finances. Um, I work in real estate, so

the insurance rates got super high for me. And I was like, well, let's let's elope get on a normal insurance and then put the rest of our money um so that we could cash flow our wedding versus pulling from either of our savings. Um, and we've mostly been able to do that.

Um, except for the final cost of the like the food, um, based off of the headcount. Um, but I just started reading your the total money makeover book. Um, our original goal >> was to buy a house probably within the

next year, a year after the wedding. The wedding's um, this coming May. Um, but after starting your book, I realized that we may not have enough to start it.

Uh, as based off of the three to six months in savings. Um, currently we have about 30,000 in savings. Um, most of it is in a high yield savings account. Um, and we don't we don't touch it whatsoever again except for pulling for the final count for the food. Um, and I

I thought that was a good amount moving forward to, you know, get a house. Um,

but our three to six months worth or six months worth of savings is about $24,000.

So I would like, oh, maybe maybe we don't have as much as I thought. And so I wanted to know your guys' wisdom on, okay, how much do we need um to start

saving for our house? Um, we're both completely debtree. We paid our ways through college. Um, we don't have car loans or anything like that and currently we rent. >> Awesome. Well, you guys are doing great.

I want to encourage you. everything you've laid out. I'm like, they are crushing it. And I'm glad the book just kind of gave you a little pause to go, hey, we're going to be broke if we just jump into a house with close to nothing down and nothing in savings. So, you're right that we got to get through this wedding first, then we'll see what's left moneywise, make sure we got the emergency fund, then anything beyond that becomes our down payment savings plan.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. How much will the food cost for the wedding?

>> Um, right now we're looking at about $3500.

is it could go up depending on the final RSVP, but we're assuming we're going to put out 3500 and everyone keeps telling us that last minute expenses are going to come up. So, in our mind, we're just even though 3500 is the amount that we think we're going to spend, we're thinking of 5,000. >> Sure. Yep. I think that's a great plan.

So, so out of that, you'll have 25 left.

And you said 24,000 is a six-month emergency fund for you guys, >> correct? >> Okay. Yeah. And what you could do just to just to kind of press play on this

and like keep moving forward because you guys um well you're you're in housing.

I'm trying to think of your um your careers how stable they are. Would you say you guys are in a pretty good spot?

>> We're in a pretty good spot. He works in um well I work in real estate and then he is an engineer. I mean he has a very stable job. >> Okay. So what you could do honestly because we say three to six months of expenses in the six month side I always

like more I'm more comfortable with that if there's you know two people working or one person working multiple kids um

there's a lot going on that six month cushion usually feels good but you guys at you know you don't have kids the responsibility there you're wanting to buy a house so if you wanted to go to the threemon the 12,000 versus 24 6

month >> I would be okay with that so you could say Hey, we have $12,000 earmarked after

the wedding for our emergency fund.

That's a check. That's baby step three.

And then baby step 3b is that down payment. And you guys will have $12,000 to kind of jumpst start you guys into a house to get you there faster if you wanted to. More conservative people would lean to the six month, but because of your situation, I'd be okay if it's closer to three months of an emergency fund.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, and is there any I again I just started listening to you guys um and reading the book. I didn't know if you guys had any more suggestions. We always just know to live below our means, but all of the things that I'm learning in the total money makeover is is more than what I've ever known. So, I didn't know if you guys had any tips.

>> Well, as far as home buying, >> um, no, in general, like >> life tips. I mean, there's a lot. That book will cover a lot. You're right.

Living on less than you make will get you very far in life. You can actually build a whole lot of wealth just doing that.

>> Yeah. But where you guys are, I would say n that you know working together as

a couple is going to be big because money fights and money problems. It's one of the leading causes of divorce in America. I mean it's just it tears apart couples if you are not on the same page with money. It's a really hard marriage when you're both on completely separate pages.

You just continue to have conflicts and butttheads. So So I would say that's a big goal for you and your new husband to say, "Hey, let's we're going to work together. We're going to be a team. our income when we get paid comes into the household into a checking account and we see that as the household income, right?

Like it this is our money. The more you guys can work as a team and start functioning the relational side of money, that's a big thing you guys can be working on and talking about. And out of that, you're going to have goals together, right? This house, this is a great goal for you all to say, "Hey, let's look at the numbers.

Look how much we need for a down payment of at least 5% on a 15-year fixed rate. how much cash above that 12,000 do we need to save? And so you guys will find a kind of a number, a range for that.

>> A little wedding gift. >> A little wedding gift. How nice. Yes. So that you guys can start budgeting together because that's another part of all of this is actually being intentional with your income. Not just living below our means and just kind of doing it, but you're actually doing it with intentionality, right? that you actually know where your money's going.

So, there's bits and pieces to all of it. Again, I think that book is a perfect um guide to all of this >> and you'll reference it back. So, just focus on the one thing you need to know at this time and then you can circle back on the investing side and saving for college one day. So, don't feel like you need to learn it all right now.

Your singular goal now is get through the wedding debtree and then whatever is left over that becomes our emergency fund plus home down payment. And I would earmark it in a separate high yield savings account so that it doesn't get co-mingled with the emergency fund. That just helps me not feel guilty when I go to use that money for the home down payment. And then just figure out, hey, how much can we realistically set aside each month?

To go with our future incomes.

>> We are setting aside um realist right now with the wedding, we're only setting aside about 800 a month because we're wanting to pay for most of it through cash flow. But um realistically after the wedding we have decided we'll set around 2,000 uh to 2500 aside each

month. >> Great. Okay. So that's about 25 grand a year. So in one year you'll have 25 grand for the down payment. In two years it becomes 50 grand. >> Well plus the 12,000 >> plus your 12. Rachel is very generous.

>> I know. I I wanted you to >> What really will will happen is you guys will be making more money as a married couple who is very intentional and all of a sudden you'll be saving 3,000 maybe even 4,000. and all of a sudden this will speed up the process and you might have 50 to 100 grand saved up in no time. >> So don't rush it. Do it when you're financially ready. Nobody's yelling at you if you get a house at 28 versus 24.

>> Yeah, renting is not bad for now. And you guys are doing awesome. Just like George said, you are on the right track without even knowing it. I mean, yeah, you're in the right direction. >> Crushing it.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Beth is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Beth? How can we help today?

>> You with us? >> Oh, yes. I'm here. I'm sorry.

>> Okay. Crisis averted. How How can we help? >> Hi. So, my question was regarding a prenup. Um, my boyfriend and I have been

dating for about a year, so we're speaking about marriage, and he had mentioned that he would never get married without a prenup.

I've always been against the idea of a prenup. I do understand the logic behind them, but and he's worth a lot more than

I am financially. He has a lot more in assets and all of that.

So, I just feel like if a man says that

he won't get married without a prenup,

it makes me feel like it's an unsafe marriage for me to enter into because he's planning for divorce basically or

preparing for it, if that makes sense.

>> Have you shared that with him? Those exact words? >> Yes. >> How did he respond?

Well, he said that he feels like I'm

being ungrateful because he would be

willing to, you know, take on me and my two children and I shouldn't question.

>> So, this is an act of charity for him and you should ask for no more.

>> He's already doing the most by letting you into his life.

>> That's I mean that's kind of the >> that's how it makes you feel. Does that feel on brand for him? Like was that a shocking answer? You like, "Wow, that's not what I was expecting you to say." Or was it like, "Yeah, it's kind of like his like emmo."

>> Well, I was I was pretty surprised when he said that and it was a little upsetting. >> Mhm. >> And I I don't I mean, I understand that

money is important obviously, but there

are things that I value more than money.

And there's no amount of money that would be worth a divorce to me or like dragging my children through a failed marriage and all of that. So, >> is this second marriage for both of you or one of you?

>> It's a second marriage for me. I was married young. Um, but we were married

for about 6 years.

And when I was getting ready to have our first our our child, he decided he

didn't want to be married anymore.

>> So, I've been a single mom for the last 11 years.

>> And this is his first marriage. He's never been married. He has no children.

So, he's he's only he's been alone his whole life. >> Okay. And um and you have one child, you said?

>> I actually have two. So, I had a second child. She She just turned three.

>> Okay. Okay. Not with him, though.

Correct. >> Right. >> With this boyfriend. Okay. So, so um how

much more is he worth than you would you say? 10 plus million, a million, half a million, less than half a million.

>> I don't know exactly. The number that he gave me was 2 million. Like between retirement and assets, savings, all of

that. >> Okay. And what is he wanting to protect going into this marriage exactly?

>> Anything that he has right now. So all of his assets and retirement and all that. He says it wouldn't be fair if we were to get divorced. It wouldn't be fair for me to get half of everything he's worked for. And I understand the logic.

And I'm not saying I want half of everything. I'm saying I don't I don't want to go into this marriage like talking about divorce because I'm 36

years old and if I'm going to be getting

divorced in 5 years, I'd rather not get married. >> Right. Right.

>> I hear you. >> I think you guys are just missing each other communication wise. And he has his reasons and you have your reasons and neither of you are getting to the root of it and understanding each other.

Well, and my problem, Beth, is, you know, I don't think he's necessarily in the wrong because I will be honest, our teaching around prenups. It kind of varies a little bit. Like, we don't really have a hardcore teaching. I think we were more hardcore no prenup for a long time.

sake. So, I'm not going to say that he is wrong. What where I do think he's wrong and what what I get the ick about is the way he's responding to you in it.

And it makes you feel like he's valuing his money over you. And that's how it feels. >> And so that's the problem that I have, right? His response to you at the beginning of this call, what you said, I was like, "Oh my gosh." That's why I asked like, "Is this like his is this how he is?" Because he kind of sounds like a little bit of a jerk, right?

versus someone that's going to take care of you where you're like, I don't like the way this is making me feel, you know, and Beth, you could you could own it all and say, this may be more my issue than yours. And I wish he came with some empathy on the table, say, I completely understand how that how this is how this does kind of feel off because I I could only imagine being a single parent, raising two kids, and then I'm putting this paperwork in front of you that feels so like latigious, and it's just, oh, it's not a good feeling, but here's where I'm at.

Right?

>> I think you may be feeling better. But it's like he keeps doubling down and the the ickiness of what prenups do to people, the grossness. He doubled down on that. Do you know what I mean? Like he didn't help the prenup uh like the

the prenup, you know, fight in that. Does that make sense? >> He didn't set it up well. And what happened here is the prenup is a tool.

It's not evil. It's just a tool. And he's using it as a weapon >> to say, well, you should be on you're ready. Yeah, that >> that part gave me the ick for sure.

But I think there is a compromise here where you can instead of you getting defensive, just say, "Hey, I'm open to hearing more about what you're thinking when it comes to this prenup. Can you can you share some details about how this would be set up? I would love for this to be fair to both of us." >> And Yeah. Sorry, George.

>> That's it. I mean, that's it. That alone, he's like, "Oh, I can be disarmed now and not have to bow up." >> Sure. Yes. And if you knew going forward

how you guys are going to work together

in your marriage with money, like that may be helpful too. And that's where sometimes prenups can get a little bit convoluted. If if you start comingling

finances, which is what we talk about that you need to be working together and you are one, while his retirement, all that will still be in his name. Um, but we we see it from an emotional standpoint as this is our household finances together. Once we get married, we say we are one in every aspect.

That's what we're going in saying, but also that we're going to be one in the subject of money and and he's already started the conversation off as already it's split, right? Like we're going to be two is what how it feels. So, I just want to make sure in the marriage you guys are working together >> and that you are being taken care of and that he's being taken care of. Like, you know, you both have that >> give and take in the marriage when it comes to money.

And I don't want it to be one-sided.

to continue to isolate the other spouse to say, "Well, this is my money. This is your money. I'm working hard." Right? If you look down two years and if you want to be a stay-at-home mom and he makes, you know, enough for you to do that, but yet he keeps saying it's my money over here, that is that's not a marriage.

>> You have to ask for an allowance. I mean, that's where it gets toxic. So, I would get a full picture of what money is going to look like in this marriage.

And if the prenup makes sense as a part of that, great. But if you guys are unaligned in every other area with money, that is a huge red flag that we should not move forward.

>> Yeah, that makes sense.

>> So, get clear with them tonight. sit down and say, "Hey, I want to know more about this. Would I be a beneficiary as long as we're married on your retirement accounts and on the real estate and any future wealth, any appreciation of the house and of your retirement accounts?

Any wealth that we create together from here on out, would I be entitled to half of that?" Those are things where you start to understand and get in the minutia of it, you might go, "Oh, okay. That makes sense." It just sounded harsh on the front end, >> right? >> Yeah. And he didn't help his case, though. The way he treated you the way that sounds, too. So, um,

>> yeah. Yeah. So, I think I think you go in with some caution, but a lot of clarity, Beth. And I would not sign anything until you feel comfortable, though. So, I don't want you to feel intimidated. >> Never feel pressured into like, well, this better happen now. Ultimatum.

That's another red flag.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like if he would break up with me over a prenup, then that is him choosing his money.

>> You dodged the bullet there. If that happens, >> I agree with that, too. >> You should be thankful. You should write him a thank you note if that happens. Y >> to spare you. Oh my goodness. Well, we're rooting for you, Beth. I hope you guys can come to a consensus that is fair and equitable for all without the ick. That's the goal here.

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What's going on, Dan?

>> Hey, how can I help? Uh I just uh so I have

some money that a couple years ago I put in with a family member who had some investment stuff that he was doing and it's not not a huge part of like my savings or anything but it's just a little bit. Um and I guess it wasn't really worked out in the initial agreement like what his cut of the money

was going to be as he'd manage the investments. And so we're working on that now. And what was mentioned to me was like a two and 20 structure with like a 10% hurdle. So like get the first 10% and then anything above that like he would get uh 20% but then somebody else mentioned the 25% and to me those that's 25% number. >> Was he a financial adviser or is this >> some back alley deal?

>> He's just a family member who talked to some finance people and worked out some investment thing and he's been doing that and making pretty good money. >> Sketchy all around. What kind of investment is it? Is it in the market like index funds or mutual funds?

>> Yes, it's a it's in yeah well it's based on the S&P 500 for the most part but >> this is highway robbery. The standard in the industry is around a 1% AUM fee.

That's assets under management.

Sometimes it's one and a quarter maybe upwards of two in a crazy scenario.

>> And he wants >> but 20%.

Uh yeah, that's just anything above 10%.

But like anything above the 10% like if we make over 10% profit on the air, he gets 25% over that. >> He should though. >> Does he work for an actual like registered investment adviser? Like an actual firm?

>> No. >> You keep saying like, well, he's got some guys like he's like a middleman and he's >> I would get your money away from this guy ASAP. Who's this family? Is it an actual like like a cousin, a brother?

Uh yeah, brother-in-law if he's not like

running it through anybody else. He's handled it all himself, but it's just something that he >> Okay, so he's a DIY investor and he's just offering his services to you for a steep fee.

>> Uh I mean, we haven't really agreed on the fee yet. That's kind of what >> happens if he loses all your money.

>> So, >> uh if I lose that money, but it's not it's not a huge part of my >> How much are we talking How much have you given him so far? >> Uh it's only 10 grand.

>> Okay. So, what I would probably do, Dan, when did you give him this money to invest? >> Uh, about two and a half years ago.

>> Okay. How old is he?

>> Uh, 40.

>> And does he do this regularly? Like, is

this like a side?

>> He had been working on it with his own money for a while before he like opened it up to anybody else.

>> And again, >> worked for him. >> Is he using like a Fidelity or a Vanguard? Like, does he have a brokerage? through it's through a brokerage. I think it's E Trade maybe.

>> Okay. So, it's basically it's something you could be doing because he's not really moving money around, is he? He just picked an investment and put it in.

>> But you'd be better off just doing this with an actual professional who's licensed.

>> Right. Okay. >> So, how much money did you originally put in two and a half years ago?

>> Uh, I put 10 grand in two and a half years ago. It's up to like 15 grand now.

>> Okay. I was going to say I was like, if it's still at 10 grand, this guy needs to go to prison. What >> I mean the market has done really well the last few years. >> Yeah. So number one I would I would untangle this whole deal. It's just you know the whole money family minutia.

It's not it just never really ends up good. So I would just say hey bro uh I

just want our relationship to be clear

of any level of entanglement when it comes to money. I just I'm started not to feel great about it. You've done nothing wrong. I freely chose to do this, but I've been, you know, reading some books, doing some stuff, and I just think, are you married?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. You know, me and, you know, my wife, we've been looking at our entire financial picture, and so we're going to kind of consolidate some stuff, move things around. So, um, I probably will just cash out with you and move on. That's what I would do and not even worry about it. But if you feel like you can't do that and all of it, then I would charge him um what the average market rate is if you had an investment professional look at that, which is 1%.

>> Or just say, "Hey, I've got to I've got my wife and I, we decide we're going to work with an actual financial adviser at XYZ firm and we're going to move our money over there." >> Yep. >> And if he gets real upset, that's a good clue that this was a bad idea to begin with. >> Okay.

>> But I'm I'm glad you are at least up right now.

the money is crazy.

>> Usually this call ends with and all the money's gone and I can't get in touch with him. >> Now that would be weird. Would that not be crazy, Dan, if you went and told him that. >> It sounds like he's just he likes this stuff and he does DIY and he came up with some deal that was like, "All right, I'll make a little bit of money to manage this for you." I don't even know if this is legal. This sounds crazy.

>> I don't I think it's kind of set up like an investment club type thing, so it's mostly fine. Like I have input into it.

Uh but yeah. Well, why don't you just do it, Dan?

>> Well, I don't know exactly what it is.

Like, I don't know how to do whatever it is he's doing. He's not just putting it in a stock and leaving it. He's doing like some covered call type stuff, I think. >> Oh, boy.

Okay. There's there's some more risk here. I personally I would jump on ramiesolutions.com, click on Smartvestor Pro, and you'll sleep better at night knowing that all this money could disappear cuz you could lose it all and you have no stake in the game. You can't come after it.

and the fact you can't explain what he's doing.

>> So, you got to figure out what he's doing. So, >> okay. >> Um, just for your own sake, Dan. Don't give someone 10 grand and be like, "I don't really understand what he's doing." But he kind of knows what he's doing.

You don't know what he know. You don't even know if you know what he's doing. >> Did he make any promises? Was he like, "Hey, man.

I'll double your money." >> No. No. Nothing like that. I mean, he gave up like Yeah.

He just said it was doing pretty well for him and he'd been making I don't remember what the percentage was that he said at the time, but it was a decent amount. And I was like, "Okay, like I'm not going to put all my money there, but I can put I have some I can put there. That's fine." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

Hopefully we we talked you off the ledge to get out of this weird situation. And it's always a family member. That's the part that And I'm glad at least it wasn't a whole life insurance thing where he's like, "You said he's managing my money." And it's really just a life insurance salesperson who works at Northwestern who sucked you into this deal. >> Totally.

Yep. >> Yeah, it could be totally fine, Dan. We may be being dramatic. But from the relational aspect, I would not um Yeah, I just want to co-ingle money and family.

>> You just put it in an index fund and you'll probably be getting I would think the same returns is what he's doing, honestly. >> All right, Jack is in Lexington up next.

What's going on, Jack?

>> You there?

>> Jack, >> we were so close to talking to Jack. All right. All right. >> It was a good effort. Let's go to Joe in Raleigh instead. What's going on, Joe?

>> Hey guys, how are you doing? >> Good. How can we help?

>> I have a quick well kind of quick question. Um, first of all, thanks for taking the call. I just graduated school. I'm from Indiana, moved down to North Carolina. Um, I have about 65,000

in student debt. I got my masters, my NBA. Um, and then I have about 7,000 in

a car. Um, my work actually kind of we have car allowance that I kind of gets paid for. Um, but I'm getting married in two months and my fiance uh we're very

blessed. She has had money put aside for her. Um, it's about $120,000

and it's going to be our money. We're going to combine our finances. Um, we've talked about what to best do with that money as soon as we get married and and combine our finances. Um, part of me thinks yes, I should just we should just use that money and wipe out all the debt uh that would now be ours once we're married. Um, but also being a good man I

am, I feel like I don't want to just take her money and do that, but it will become our money if that makes sense.

>> Um, and >> yeah, we could use it on I could use some of it and then pay the rest off on my own. Um, but I I feel like you guys would probably just say just use it. Um, but it's been set aside for her for a while. her dad and grandparents um blessed her with that. Uh so yeah, curious to hear what you guys think.

>> Absolutely. Use it and set yourself up.

I mean, this money was created for, you know, for her to get a leg up in her financial future and now she's got you.

It's a wealth multiplier. So, yes, it feels like you're taking a step back temporarily and it stinks cuz you're like, man, this was I mean, half her money is gone now that was set aside for her, but you're just setting yourselves up. This is a great foundation to >> to go off of. So, absolutely, I would do it. And you would do the same if if she was in your shoes. And so it is your money, y'all's money, our money.

>> And you're not using all of it. I mean, you're using a good bit of it.

>> I was going to say, yeah, 48,000 left.

>> Um, which could be the, you know, starter or the the fully funded emergency fund, right? Part of that could be there and then some of it for a down payment for a home. And you guys keep moving along. So, the goal is to get to wealth as quick as possible. And getting debt out of the picture helps you get there fast.

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Spencer is in Hollywood, Florida. Up next, Spencer, welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> Hello. Thanks for having me.

>> Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

Oh, I was just calling because um me and my fiance um I'm age 25, but me and my

fiance are looking to get married in August, but I have like a dilemma with

her and her mom. Her mom wants to stay with us, but her and her mom doesn't have a good like relationship really that's happening. And we're kind of like

in between of what we should do. like she doesn't want to abandon her mom and like leave her because she's a single mom with two other little sisters and we're just having that I guess you could say that guilt of not bringing her along with us.

>> Okay. So, the mother-in-law is asking to

move in with you all once you get married. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. >> And she has two other daughters.

>> Yes. And the thing is they she has um

her aunt that lives in Jacksonville.

She's in the Navy, but that's not really like I guess you could say a designated area she wants to live at.

>> Okay. Why does she need her oldest daughter? Um is it financial? Is it that

she helps take care of the two little ones? Like what is her primary motivation to live with you all? I think it's the combination of all the things you said plus more I guess for like I guess you could say more comfortability and she she really she really takes on

like all the responsibilities when I'm thinking about it. >> Your wife does.

>> Yes, correct. Mom and

>> I guess that that's like a I guess if she leaves that's like I guess you know a gap that she has to um fill as a single mom. And then what's the relational side? You said there's a bad relationship. Who's it between?

>> Well, when I say like bad relationship, it's like I guess like you could say like hot and cold. Like um it'd be like I guess you could say one day like they're getting along and then next day just I guess >> you're bringing some drama into the house by inviting her in is what you're saying. >> Yeah. And I guess like my standpoint, I'm like in the middle of it.

to Jacksonville is not a bad idea but at the same time I I feel like cuz you know I I don't I never live with her mom so I'm saying like maybe it won't be a bad idea if she comes with us for a little bit but >> the little bit turns into a long bit and the long bit turns into well this is where we live now and it's a generational house and that's fine if everybody agrees to it but it sounds like you and your fiance are both like this is not it.

>> Yeah. I mean I guess with me I don't mind but for her you know she she's the one that >> Spencer You don't mind? You really don't mind. Your mother-in-law you guys opening the fridge together and the two little kids running around with your new wife. You don't mind? Oh, well,

not really when you say it like that, but >> there we go. Yeah, >> it's okay to admit you do not want this.

It doesn't mean you're a bad person. Doesn't mean you don't love her. But there's a reason people get married. The old leave and cleave. There's a sense of independence that we're creating a new life for us together, not dragging everyone along with us and funding their life as well. >> Yeah. and the and the guilt trips your mother-in-law will give to her daughter because it sounds like the imshment of their relationship is super deep and there's not clear boundaries and your

your fiance has basically become in a way another parent to your mom to her mom you know what I mean like it's like the roles have flipped and that's not >> not healthy >> it's not yeah it's not the way the progression is supposed to be and I know life isn't perfect and there's messiness and things happen absolutely and I'm Not saying you abandon her mom or anything, but it is not wrong for you both to say,

"Hi, we are both in our mid20s. We're going to choose to start a life together, choose to start our own nuclear family, and we're choosing to do

life together. And now I'm leaving the home mom." And that's not that's not crazy, right? and she may have a hard situation and you guys can choose how much you want to help in that if you want to, but there's no um there's no

responsibility there. She's the daughter, right? Her mom is in charge of

her own life. And so when she depends and is so en and is so dependent and codependent on her daughter, that's not good. And so if your fiance decides,

"Yes, I do not I don't want my mom moving in with us," I think is not only the a wise move, but it's going to be a really hard conversation. Cuz when you put boundaries up with someone who's not used to boundaries or new boundaries, >> it's going to piss her off. Like it's going to be really hard. It's be really hurtful.

And she can do it in a really kind way, but she can't control how her mom's going to respond. But that is going to be messy messy. But that doesn't mean just cuz it's hard doesn't mean you it's not right. And this needs to be between her and her mom >> so that you don't need this triangulation where now it's like you're in the middle going, "Uh, what do you want to do?" You be the tiebreaker.

You don't want that now. You support your wife >> in the setting up the boundaries, but you don't need to get in the middle of it either. >> Correct. Correct.

Yeah. That's why I I just listen to what she tells me and I give like my advice to her, but I stay out the mix, you know, and when I come over, it's like that's nothing. >> Can I be honest, Spencer? I think she wants you to take a stand.

>> Yeah. >> She wants you to bow up and say, "You know what? This isn't okay and I support you in you stopping this before it gets out of hand." And then go, "Hey, we're not going to leave you on the street. We want to come up with a plan to make sure that you're covered, that the kids are okay, but that doesn't mean you're going to move in with us.

There's other options, right? If you guys weren't getting married, what would she do?" >> Yeah. And so I guess the plan was she's supposed to um move to Jacksonville with her older sister. >> I guess that's the plan.

>> It's great. >> Yeah. >> Keep it. Keep the plan.

>> It's great plan. Love that plan. >> We love the plan. >> You should be so supportive of that plan.

>> You should cover the moving costs for her to get to Jacksonville.

>> You see where we're going with this?

>> Yes. >> I need you to steer the >> What's your hesitation, Spencer? What's causing you to not just be like, "Yes, absolutely." >> Um, well, I mean, I guess the only hesitation is really um is I guess what

she tells me she I guess it's always like mixed emotions, I guess you could say. Like >> that's fair. >> One one day is something different and the next day is something else. One day it's like you saying like, you know, I feel bad for my mom. she did stuff for me and like you know like okay what if

they had like the idea what if we did get a house and she came but then it's idea then I would say oh about like okay

one month one year um turns into many

years and that's not something you want >> and is she working full-time >> yes >> okay >> I think and I think her mom just got out of actually um surgery knee surgery so

she's been out of work. Well, she still has her job, but she's I've been out of work for about a month now.

>> Okay. >> So, >> yeah. And you guys can be helpful, right? We're not saying you just like abandon a relationship by any means, but

co-mingling your whole lives together, that's a that's a totally different step. And she doesn't need to feel guilt about her mom taking care of her. That's why you choose to be a mom. You take care of your kids. Like, that's what you do. They don't owe they're not indebted to you because you took care of your kids. >> Yeah. That's selfish to I'm going to have a kid so that they can take care of me >> in my old age of 42. How old is she?

>> Um at least in her 40s.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. She's not elderly. If this was someone who's like, "Hey, they need care." This is different. This is a barely a middle-aged woman who can work full-time. And yes, it's a hard life to be a single mom with two young kids, but it's not impossible. We hear calls all the time. And so, she needs to figure out how to be independent because that's what's actually best for her. Yes.

>> Okay. >> So, you're actually doing this out of love, not out of spite. And I think you need to convince yourself of that.

>> Spencer, you need to take an energy a five five hour energy shot before you >> boom, get a little get a little aggressive in there. You know, >> sometimes I'll slap myself in the face just to wake up and go, "All right, get in the game, bud. Let's do this.

>> You got this, Spencer." >> Oh, well, I'm I'm hoping the best for you guys in setting up this boundary conversation. >> Call us back if you need us, Spencer.

and call us back. If you do let her move in and then it's 2 years later and you can't get her out and she's not paying any of the bills and it's chaos in your house, we'll also try to help you then.

>> We will. >> It's just going to be less fun. >> We'll always >> you try to This is the preventative medicine >> versus the emergency surgery of we need to evict my mother-in-law and two siblings. >> I know, right?

Right. >> That's a nightmare scenario. And what if you guys want to move? And she's like, "Well, no, we need to stay here.

My job is here. I can't afford." So, you guys are really locking yourselves in with some handcuffs if you do this. On top of the drama and the stress, I wouldn't be doing that as a newlywed couple. If you've been married 30 years and she's elderly and needs care and you decide to take her in, that's different.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Mike is in Philadelphia up next. What's going on, Mike? How can we help today?

>> How are you? >> We're doing great. What a hail you >> good. So, all right. So, I have been

pulling my hair out past couple days about a new truck. >> That's how Dave Ramsey ended up like that, man. Be careful. >> Uh, pull that hair out. Doesn't come back. >> Just real stress. >> I'm clo I'm close to it. I'm I'm fully

gray, you know. I I used to have a nice base of uh brown going. Now I'm all grave about it. So >> that's life. >> Um, listen, my car I've had I've had it

on, you know, on the road for years now without uh a car payment. I love it. Um, I'm the 1% of the world who doesn't have a car payment, I like to say. And now, unfortunately, the car is on the lift at my buddy shop on life support. Um,

>> was this a big surprise or was it like Yeah, it kind of was getting there.

>> No, wasn't a surprise.

it. Um, I think this thing was coming.

U, but I was in denial. So, you know,

Infiniti with uh 250 something on it.

Uh, I get oil changes left and right, premium gas, but I take care of it. And I was really hoping to squeeze just a couple of more, you know, miles out of this thing uh before I had to make the jump to a new car. But, of course, here

we are. You know, life life springs are here. So, I have one of two ways to go.

I spent all day yesterday on the Toyota Tundra lot looking at uh the Tundras and seeing how ridiculously expensive they are versus going to my buddy's shop right now, throwing the whole tax return nut on the repairs and driving off and

just hoping to squeeze just a couple more miles out of Old Barry is his name.

>> Old Barry. >> So, Old Barry.

>> Oh, man. He's been good. Berries are always good. >> Barry's been >> Yeah, >> Barry has been fantastic to me and I think he's still got some life left.

Although the friends and family are like, "Listen, bro." >> Well, we don't listen to them. We don't need to listen to them. Okay. So, um Mike, how much money do you have to buy a Tundra?

>> So, I have I would say about six saved

up,000.

Planning on Yes, correct. I'm planning on throwing 35 down on it.

3500.

>> That's correct. >> Down. I thought I thought we were an anti-payment. >> Thought we were a 1enter of >> The word down is in our voc vocabulary.

>> Uh >> oh. >> I know. I know.

>> I think Barry's going to feel disappointed in you, Mike.

>> What's the repair cost? >> Barry is so Barry all in right now is uh

2,300. And then now I just got surprised with a new part plus 800. So, whatever that is, >> 3,100. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, what's the car worth after you do all this?

>> Listen, we're at 20 250 something,000

miles. I don't know. I don't know.

>> I mean, is it worth what kind of car is Barry?

>> It's a 2010 Infiniti M35.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um, Mike, do you listen to the show?

>> Do you do you um Yeah. Yeah. Do you listen to the Ramsey show a lot?

>> No. No. I actually just started following um the whole group pretty recently. I think at the top at the end of the year, give or take.

>> You were the 1% without a car payment before. You know, >> because you Well, you called a show that helps people get out of debt, not into debt.

>> Trust me, I'm aware. And that's, you know, but I I have heard the rare stories where, you know, they're like, "Yeah, sure. Why not? You, you know, you have this, this, and that going on. Why not? >> Oh, we Yes, we do tell people to buy cars. Yes. Um, new cars when they have

the the money to buy them. So, people will call in and they're like, "Listen, I got >> 600 grand in a high yield savings account and I want a new Tundra." Then we'd be like, "Mike, get you a new Tundra. If you have a net worth over a million dollars, go buy a nice car."

Mike, you're you're kind of broke, you know? >> Can I be honest, Mike? You got six grand to your name. You and Barry in six grand. You don't need to be walking around on a Tundra lot, Mike.

>> Yeah. >> You'll be a Tundra guy one day. But >> right now, it's Champagne Taste on a beer budget, my friend. >> Yeah. No, we can't. No, no, no. Do you know how much a Tundra You know how much a payment's going to be, Mike? I bet I bet it's what I bet it's what, 900.

Close to a great,000.

>> 3500 down is a drop in the bucket for a brand new Tundra. >> Do your Do your math. Let's Let's Mike is new. So, show >> You want like a car loan payment calculator? >> Yes. So, listen, Mike. This is what your car payment would cost you as Barry's sitting there on life support, but he's got another he's got another life. >> Okay. What's the price of the car? >> How much would a new Tundra be?

>> I know you know. I believe.

>> Well, we don't need that. Just say like just say >> I do need to know the loan. I was going to do investment if he if he invested.

Sorry, George. >> She's just yelling at me over here.

Mike, give me a break. >> Will you pull up the investment calculator? >> Oh, got it. Okay, I see where you're going with this. >> That's where I'm going. So Mike, if you went and got a new Tundra, okay, and you were like everyone else in the world and you put away how much do you think a payment is? Probably >> Can we call it 900? >> 1100. How much you think? >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's Let's call Yeah, let's call it about 9. 950 is >> All right. 950. How old are you?

>> How old are you, Mike?

>> Uh 36. >> 36. >> 36. Let's go to 62.

>> So let's say you're like everyone else, Mike. You go, you get this new Tundra and you you pay a car payment and you do it over the next, you know, five years, then you're done with it. the Tundra is five years old, you're done with the payments, but you're like, you know, I want the new Tundra.

I want the 2030 Tundra. So then you go get a new one and you stay in a cycle of car payments because that's what ends up happening. So if you if you paid a car payment every month now until you're 62, that's your life. Versus if you keep Barry alive, you start saving up and you pay cash for your cars and you invested a car payment, you paid yourself that car payment, how much money would he have at 62? >> At 62, you'd have $1.4 $4 million. Of

that, you only put in less than 300 grand. Compound growth did the heavy lifting.

>> Mhm. >> So, >> or you could spend 50 grand on a car that was worth 40 that's now worth 16

>> and be paying payments >> six years later.

>> Correct. Now, let me ask you this. Uh, you know, the option to of lease to buy, you know, brings that >> Oh, no. That's even worse, Mike. Who sold you on that idea? The guy at the dealership? >> The Tundra guy.

just wondering. Right. Right. Right. You know, I I had a feeling. So, but I figured Listen, it's it's worth a shot to call in and just see what you know, I

I know. And especially me, like I've been paying my paying my debt down like crazy. >> How much debt do you have? >> And I'm I'm almost getting ready to do that debt. Uh debt scream. Okay.

Don't ruin this moment. >> Going in the right direction. Keep moving, Mike. Keep >> Couldn't come at a worse time. >> One foot in front of the But you know what, Mike? You have the money. You have the six grand, so you're able to fix Barry. >> Cover the repair. You still got three grand. Then then how much could you save up every month once you're completely debtree? How much could you save in a car fund?

>> Well, uh, let's see. Could I ask through So, you know, my emergency fund is back up after this payment. The emergency, uh, fund is back up and replenished. Um, >> yep. >> I mean, I could >> Could you put away a,000 bucks a month?

2,000 bucks a month? What are we talking? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cuz I don't have a I don't have rent or a mortgage.

>> And what's your income? >> So, that's >> uh 85. >> You make 85 grand a year. So, you could buy up to a $40,000 car if that was your only thing with wheels and motors on cash. >> With cash. >> And you just told me you could save two grand a month. >> That's 24 grand a year.

>> Yeah. At the end of Yeah. Think about it. In one year, you could have a $24,000 car.

>> And if I were you, Mike, I'd go find a $24,000 Tundra a year from now that's used that someone else said, "I'm done with. I want the fancier, newer one." >> 100%. That's the right way to go if you want to build wealth, Mike. But if you want to look good and feel good for just 3 seconds, you go get that new car with a big old payment.

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Shantel is in Sarasota, Florida. Up next. Welcome to the show, Shantel. How can we help?

>> Hey, so my question is, I am a new mom

and I had a baby about seven weeks ago.

>> And my question is, thank you. Uh my

question is does it make financial sense at this point um really strongly considering transitioning from full-time

working relatively well-paying medical

job to a stay-at-home mom with losing

all benefits and all those kinds of things from my current employer. Also,

while considering my husband's um

employment kind of decreasing grossly year over year, um I'm just kind of lost at what to do at this point. >> What does he do?

>> Uh medical sales >> and the sales just aren't coming through.

>> Well, it's a very seasonal area where we live in in Florida. So um you know most

of the year you know relatively busy but

in the summer months definitely drops off quite a bit. Um so kind of over the

last two years kind of bring home has been decreasing just based on volume

>> overall.

>> Okay. What was what was he making and what is he making now?

>> Um I would say the range between 4 and 600,000. >> Oh wow. That's a healthy Yeah, we're a

little on the lower end. Yeah, a little on the lower end. Kind of on the trajectory for this year.

>> Okay. Does he see volume picking up next year to get back to that half a million or 600?

>> Um, probably not until 2027. Um, when

more hospitals kind of open.

>> So, next year though. Next year.

>> Yeah, probably in the latter half of next year, I would say. >> Yeah. Does your lifestyle support you guys living on $400,000 a year?

>> Um, I mean, we he has two kids from a

previous marriage, so there's three kids total now. Um, and I have been the one

carrying like the health insurance and all of those kinds of things up to this point. Um, >> his company doesn't provide that. That's not a benefit.

Uh, no. Because he's an independent contractor um and a Navy veteran. So, he

gets all his um care through the VA.

>> Okay. And family is not included in that? >> No, it's not. >> Okay. >> Do you actually know your total household expenses in a given month?

>> Um, it is mortgage is probably 2100ish in

that range and we owe maybe about 240 on a house. >> Okay. Um, you know, then just like your regular electric >> would you say you got to spend $10,000 a month to keep the household running?

>> Um, between all of the things that's

probably generous. >> Is that child support included?

>> There's no child support. >> Okay. Well, I'm I'm doing math here going 10 grand a month is 120 grand a year in take-home pay. So even if he made $250,000, you'd still be able to cover all of your household bills easily on his income alone.

>> Yeah. >> Now, the part to factor in is getting market marketplace uh health insurance, which you can check out our friends at healthrustfinancial at rysolutions.com and they can search for you to find out what it's going to really cost. Is it might be 3,000 a month. You got to budget for to cover health insurance for now. >> But I think you guys can afford that.

But even if your bills are 13 grand, if you're making $400,000 in a bad year, you're going to be okay.

>> Yeah. I mean, and I think the biggest thing for me is transitioning from my

contribution to all of that, which last year I brought in about 250

um to going from all of that to zero.

Um, now is that 250?

>> It feels like, >> you know, like I'm not doing my part, you know, as a >> partner. The hardest part about staying home, Shantel, is disassociating your work identity from your human identity as a mom. And that part is legitimately hard because this is all you've known. You've worked really hard to build this career, haven't you?

>> Yeah. So, yeah. Invested all this, you know, master's degree for the last 13 years. Been working my butt off.

>> Yeah. And it got you here. It got you to an amazing life. And it's I think what you're gonna have to do is grieve that over time and go, "Man, I worked really hard for this." And it's not the right next thing for me, >> right? >> You have this new baby now. And so that's your new thing that you were contributing to as well as the household. And that I think that has so much nobility and merit to it, even if it doesn't come with a big paycheck.

>> 100%. And I say that as someone who's my wife stays at home and had an amazing nine-year career here at Ramsey, was at the top of her game and dropped it all to be at home and it was a really hard decision for her emotionally, but it wasn't hard financially because we set ourselves up and you guys have done the same with this amazing income you have.

>> Yeah. Um I think the the other portion of that is you know I have been working

towards you know obviously investing in retirement 401k Roth IRA trying to set

ourselves up you know for some point that we be able to transition. So you know I'm going to lose all of that too as far as like corporate contribution.

>> Sure. But you'll roll over any retirement stuff you have. You can roll that over to an IRA. It'll continue to grow >> and you can do a spousal >> spousal >> Roth IRA. You guys may have to do the back door considering how much you make.

I do have one question, Shantel, and then I want to get back to what you were saying. Is the 250 you're contributing part of the 400 or he's making 400?

>> He's making 400. >> Okay, good. Okay. I wanted to make sure our math was right. Okay, perfect.

>> Yeah, you guys are if you don't build wealth making $400,000 a year, you've you really screwed it up. >> You don't have a financial problem until you have an identity problem is what it is. And the hard thing is is so much of the applause of our world today, the scorecard at which we place our worth

>> is our income.

>> Um what people see, success, positions,

all of that is what is applauded in our world today, which is really sad because a lot of that ends up being empty. Now, if you can flip that and say, "Hey, that is not who I am. this is a skill set

that you know was God-given and I've worked hard at it and that's a great part of me but that is not that's not who I am. It's maybe a part of me but it's not my full identity. And so taking

that apart I think is is so important and for you and your husband to sit down and I would love him to affirm this in you that this is our household income.

Like yes, you are contributing to it, but regardless of who makes the money when it hits that checking account, we are we are in charge of it together.

Like you have as much say still into the money even if you're not bringing it in.

That's a healthy perspective and it's going to be hard for you because you are very intelligent. You're very hardworking. And I'll be honest, too. I mean, I felt this way when I went on maternity leave.

Even you might go a little stir crazy. You might be like, "Oh my gosh, I've been making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for so long or I'm nursing or I'm, you know, washing burp, you know, burp cloths constantly in swaddle blankets." Like it it there's a monotony to a new world that you've entered into. And so if you have to find a little outlet to kind of like find that part of you that is so gifted, that that's great, too. But honestly, embracing the season you're in, it's going to go so fast.

And I know everyone says that, and I even hate to say it cuz I rolled my eyes every time people said it, but it does.

flies. It flies. And so your contribution, if you're wanting to stay home and that's where you feel like your your spirit, your soul is pulling you, listen to that. Listen to that. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz it is only so little for so long.

>> Yes. And it's going to be exhausting.

>> You can get a job again one day if you miss it. That's the good news. You're so terrible. >> And you're going to be tired. Like it's a different kind of tired. I think it's more tiring to 100%. I could not >> versus functioning with adults, you know, and having adult conversation like we are now. Um so yeah, you'll miss some elements of of your work life for sure, but if there's ways you can still have yourself fulfilled in those things, um whatever that looks like is great, too.

So, um man, but I I would I would I

would say listen to your heart and be home with that baby if that's where you're being pulled. >> I much appreciate y'all's help.

>> Yep. Absolutely. >> Good luck with the transition.

Congratulations. I know seven weeks in.

I'm surprised you're able to call in coherently. >> Oh man, >> that's the most impressive part. >> Exhausting. So tiring.

>> So tiring. >> Those baby years. They're beautiful, but

>> they're exhausting.

>> I I'm in it. I got an infant now. I got a toddler. And I get home and I'm like, I thought I was at work.

Now I'm at work. >> That was a joy ride compared to what's going on over here. But >> and I know parents are all different seasons, but it does get better and better. >> I know.

That's another one of those I roll my eyes, but Right now I'm like it's perfect for us. Like a 5 to 11year-old I'm like stay right here y'all. It's so fun. >> Don't grow.

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>> Today's question comes from Toby in Missouri. I'm 25 years old and self-employed with an average salary of $100,000 a year. I have a net worth of

$400,000 and my fiance will be out of school and getting a job within a year starting out at $95,000 a year. I have saved 200,000 to put down on a house for a down payment. Should I buy my dream home for $450,000 in the best neighborhood in town or a house that costs $200,000 in an okay neighborhood knowing that we want to move in a neighbor move into another neighborhood in the next couple of years? We have no student loans or car payments and we'll be getting married later this year.

>> Oo. Okay. A lot of variables here. This like a little riddle. A lot of timing.

>> I'm going big. >> Yeah. Well, I'm wondering, can you wait to buy the house until you're married?

Oh, for sure. >> Why the urgency right now to get the >> I would get the $450,000 house, but I would wait until you're married.

>> Yep. >> Because then you know that you know that you know both incomes are there cuz what if, >> god forbid, the maybe the wedding gets pushed and you're stuck with a mortgage payment that's a little tight for your $100,000 income, which is amazing, but you take on a $250,000 mortgage. I don't know what the payment's going to be compared to your take-home pay. >> That's right. Yes. I would assume that after you get married, you guys will be making 200,000. you put and maybe rent

for one year, right, before you before you jump into the new neighborhood >> and save an extra 507500, right, to add

to the down payment. >> And if you put 250 300 down on a 450

>> Oh my goodness. Well, the options you have will be amazing. You'll pay off the mortgage fast. And then fast forward, let's say your fiance wants to stay home one day and we just took a call about that.

>> Guess what? It's a no-brainer. You're like, "Yeah, our mortgage is a,000 bucks a month or it's paid off. No brainer to do this." Or you jump in right now with that mortgage that's a fixed payment and it gets tight if she decides to stay home.

That's the kind of stuff you need to think about with a home. It's a long-term decision. >> So, I would wait.

>> That's it's a great question. He's in a good place. >> Yes.

>> Y >> uh similar to the stock market because in a given year the home price could actually dip for a little bit and so I think you're doing it the right way Toby. I would just be patient and wait till you're married to uh pull the trigger on the home. That's awesome. All right, Patrick is down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee. What's going on, Patrick?

>> Hey, how are y'all doing today?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> Great. So, I'm 26 years old and I just landed a job straight out of college with my degree. I make about $73,000 a

year. I don't have any credit card debt.

I do owe on a vehicle and I've got about

63ish $4,000 saved in a CD account and

in savings. Okay. And my CD account is about to renew here in the next month.

And I'm really just wanting to know, is there somewhere else I can put my money to really let it grow? And then how can I start to utilize these savings for the

future? >> Great questions. You're doing really good at at 26. What What is left on your debt? What's the balance?

>> So, I only owe 25 just shy of $26,000 on

a vehicle. Um, >> that's a lot of money where I came from.

>> It is. It is. And I'm more than willing to pay it off and I'm comfortable paying it off right here, right now. And >> do it. do it while you're on the phone with us. Prove it.

>> I've I've been I've been putting it in the works, but I just want to know, you know, I've got a considerable amount of money left over and I just really want to be able to put it to work, especially since the job I'm in is a good salary

and it's only going to increase throughout the years. >> Great. Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

>> I'm not and I want to start.

>> Okay. So, let me run you through some napkin math here to help you. You got 63 in CD and savings. I would not renew

that CD. I would get out of that and just park it in high yield savings. You're going to use 26 of that to pay off your car loan, right?

>> Yes. >> So, that brings you down to >> 37,000. Now, we need an emergency fund.

Unless you have other savings outside of this, but you need 3 to six months of expenses saved up in an emergency fund.

You can park that in the high yield savings. How much would that be for you?

Um, I think for 6 months it' probably be about 24,000, >> right? So, we're going to take 24 out of the 37, which leaves you with 13,000.

That's really the number we're working with. And now, think about it. You got an amazing financial foundation. No payments, 6 months of expenses saved up,

13 grand to now invest. And what I would do first is just fund a Roth IRA for the year.

That's 7,500 bucks right there.

Are you tracking with me on what that is?

>> Uh, you know, I'm new. I've I've heard Roth IRA, but I'm not going to lie, I'm not familiar with it. >> No, it's all good. I'll give you a quick explainer.

So, an IRA is just an individual retirement arrangement. It's just an account that's outside of an employer where you can invest money with some tax advantages. And so, there's traditional IRA, which means you're going to get uh you're going to get some tax benefit now, but you'll pay taxes later when you withdraw it >> on the on the growth.

I mean, you're a young guy, that's some amazing opportunity. So funding that for the year, the maximum is 7500 for 2026.

>> So you can open up a Roth IRA, fund 7,500, and you'll still have some money left over, which is incredible. And then beyond that, you got to think about what are my future financial goals? Do I need to upgrade the car? Do I need to save up

for a home down payment? And so you want to think about short-term goals, high yield savings, long-term goals, let's invest it. >> Yeah. And Patrick, at that point, you know, we have the we have what's called the seven baby steps.

So it's a $1,000 emergency fund. Get completely debtree, everything but the house, and then a three to six month emergency fund. So you've done all of that because of the savings that you've done so well stocking stockpiling that cash. And then baby steps four, five, and six is what you're going to move forward with.

And baby step four is funding 15% of your income into retirement. So that Roth IRA would be included in that 15%.

now on, Patrick, you need to be investing 15% of your income into retirement. So that's Roth >> about $11,000 for you.

>> Yep. $11,000 a year. Okay. Needs to be going in an investment. So Roth IRA would be included in that. Does your employer have a 401k?

Um I'm still fairly new and I'm figing all those numbers out. I do know that we have a pension after if your age and your years serve equal a certain amount that's guaranteed. >> So if there is an option for any kind of

retirement within your company then you know that would be great and any kind of investment. So >> and sometimes there's a match as well to where they go hey if you put in 3% we're going to also match 3%. So you doubled your money 100% return just like that.

So that's the first place to go. And then beyond that, like I talked about the Roth options, that's after tax money, but it grows and you can withdraw it without taxes again. And then beyond that, if you run out, you can go to traditional options as well. And I'll walk you through this, Patrick, in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

I'll send you a copy. There's a chapter called Wealth is Patience. And you, my friend, have all the time in the world to be patient. You're a young man who's doing great.

>> Yeah, you're you're on the right track, Patrick. So just remember, stay out of debt.

Percentage- wise, you're getting what? What do you think of CDs right now? Probably one, two, three. >> Upwards close to four, but not quite.

>> Okay. Better than I was thinking. Um, but yeah, you're going to get better returns investing your money in the market. But again, doing it doing it wisely. And George in his book will walk you step by step by that. So, make sure to read that um when that comes to you.

Patrick, >> can we do some quid proquo? Patrick, can you promise me you'll pay off the car if I send you the book?

>> Absolutely. I'm I'm planning to do it and I knew that was going to be the first thing they were going to tell me.

>> Well, dude, think how much is the payment on that thing? What's the car payment? >> It's about 513.

>> Oh, you just became $6,000 a year richer. You just got a raise just like that, Patrick. >> Man, I'm I'm happy for you. Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. Enjoy.

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So don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Go start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. >> You know what I was just doing during the break? >> What are you budgeting?

Tracking your transaction. >> Transactions.

>> She practices what she really do. Yes.

>> How did her feel? >> It feels so good. >> You got a little dopamine hit. >> Well, the Costco one hit and that was >> Oh, that one never feels good. That was not like fun, but it's in the budget, so

doesn't feel good. >> Costco, they'll science will study Costco for years to come as to how they convinced everyone to spend hundreds while somehow thinking they saved money.

>> I know. And my kids get locked in on certain snacks, like a there's like a little protein drink.

>> It's has like a little monkey on the front. >> They're so expensive, but they're $9 off. So, I was like, you know, >> I thought about that. My daughter gets her little like pouches, you know? Yeah.

And my wife likes the crunchy like clean ones. >> Oh, yes. They're like They're like $2 a pouch. So, when she doesn't finish one, I'm like, "You're going to finish that pouch." Dad paid good money for that pouch. >> We're going to put that in the refrigerator and you're going to reuse that pouch. I know. I know.

>> That's life. All right. John is in V Virginia Beach up next. What's going on, John? How can we help today?

>> All right. Well, so my wife and I have just finished paying off all of our credit cards, which is an excellent feeling. >> Nice. Good job.

>> We are moving on to our bigger debts.

Next, we have a student loan, um, a heliloc, and we also have a car note that we're paying off. My question is, the student loan is the next largest one, and it's her student loan is through the government, and it's in forbearance right now until I think 2028. So, there's no minimum payment that's required on it right now. Do I start paying on that since it's the next smallest one, or do I go to the next biggest one, which is the truck note, and like paying additional on it?

>> That's a great question. And so what's the total balance of the debts?

>> Um student loans right at 14,000. The truck is right around 20 and the HELOC's right around 47. >> Okay. What's the smallest student loan up next?

>> Um so her student loans got all consolidated into one um back under uh

the previous president's administration.

So it's all wrapped into one payment.

>> Okay. Well, here's the deal. Interest is

still acrewing in forbearance.

>> Sure. So even though they're like, "Hey, you don't have to make a payment." That balance is ballooning because you're not knocking down the principal at all. So I would absolutely treat it like any other debt and just attack that one first at 14 grand. How quickly can you knock that one out? >> Uh probably in about a year, maybe 16 months at most. >> Okay. So 12 months from now, you're moving on to the car loan, >> correct? >> All right. And then the helilocs next.

All right. You're on the path. Yeah, I would absolutely knock out that student loan. The the problem and the thing I hate about forbearance is it makes people think they are like I got some relief. Yes. >> And they look at the balance six months later and it's so much bigger than it was the last time they looked at it.

>> Yeah. And that was my concern. I mean thankfully they're they're low interest or like I think it's a 4 and a.5% interest which obviously is low but the interest is still acrewing and adding to the balance when I'm not making payments on it. So I just wanted to make sure that that was the right next move. And >> the interest could not be low enough unless it's gone. 0% with no payment is

the only one I'm okay with. So, I would knock it out just as aggressively as if it was 40% interest. That's the spirit that will get you out of this fast and not be a grueling, you know, four-year journey. So, can you knock the rest out in let's say under two years?

>> Uh, probably maybe a little over two at most, but I wouldn't I don't see why not. >> That's the spirit, John. We're done for you, man. >> Well done. And you got the credit cards out. That feels good. >> Those ones are real icky. >> Not fun. Uh hopefully you cut them up.

All right. Keegan is in Sou Falls, South Dakota up next. What's going on, Keegan?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's going on?

>> So, I am a full-time law student and I'm

living with my parents while I'm in school. They are supporting me, you know, providing me with food and housing. I'm going to graduate with no student debt and I'm wondering what I can do to pay my parents back once I graduate. >> Wow, that's amazing. First of all, way to go going to law school debtree. How did you do that by the way? Cuz we get a lot of calls of people saying it's impossible.

>> Well, you know, my wife and I are big fans of you guys, so we wanted to try and do this debtree. So, I studied hard for the LSAT, got a high score, and I managed to get a full scholarship. >> Whoa. >> Wow. Well done. So just be a boy genius like Keegan and uh you can avoid >> be as smart as Keegan and you can do it.

>> Yeah, that's incredible. Okay, so did your parents set up any arrangement with you? Did they talk about any financial aspect of you living with them and them covering food?

>> No, they are just doing this out of the kindness of their heart. They want to support me and they know that this is a goal of mine and so they have no expectation that I pay them back. But >> you just want >> I >> I just want to and I don't think they would take just a check from me to say thanks. So >> that's what I was going to say. You write dad a check, he's going to rip it up, I'm guessing. Right.

>> Yep. >> But will you still still feel like you did your part in attempting to pay them back?

>> I think that might ease some of my my burden. Yeah. >> Well, you know what? You're giving them the flex of saying, "Oh, yeah. My kid's a lawyer." That's what every parent wants, man. You're giving it to them.

The check can not touch that. They're just proud of you, aren't they?

>> They are. They're very proud. And I know they don't expect anything, but I thought maybe uh I take them on a vacation or something. But >> that's a fun idea. >> Yeah, I think that's great. >> Force them into an experience.

>> You know, sometimes it's hard, Keegan, even you know, as an adult to accept the

generosity of others.

>> It kind of puts you at a in a in a humble position. You know what I mean?

to have to yeah accept that and so there's something beautiful about that that your parents >> had the ability and have set you guys up and that you guys have been so smart. I mean it's unbelievable the decisions you guys have made. So yeah, I think there's for sure ways that you can be creative

and you know take them on a trip or you know whatever that looks like. I think that's great. >> Or if you like notice around the house man that that grill could use an upgrade once I graduate and I get a job. I'm just going to surprise him with a great grill, you know.

So, there's there's things you can still do to be generous. >> Yeah. And there's stuff like that, too, you know, depending on where they are financially, you know, that as you guys start to build wealth that, you know, it's a beautiful thing to be generous to people that don't expect it or don't feel entitled to it, you know, and so there that's part of living like no one else. The later you get to live and give like no one else.

And giving to your family is one of those things that you absolutely can do. So, um yeah, I'm all about that. I think that's great. I think it comes from a good place um in your heart that there's and there's no um you know weirdness of feeling like gosh I you know they're expecting this or they have to.

It really is just your you saying thank you to them and I think that's beautiful.

>> Thank you so much. >> Absolutely. Thank you for calling. I know. >> And I feel like paying it forward is one of the best things you can do. You do this for your family. You set them up so that no one in your family tree ever goes into debt. That's a pretty incredible legacy to leave that goes way beyond repaying them a unknown amount

like what does this really cost? I I'll write a check for five grand and call it good. >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> I don't think they're needing it or expecting it. It sounds like they're they're in a great spot financially.

Yes. >> So they're not, you know, put out by you staying there. But that's impressive.

The whole story just makes me go, that's how to do it. If there was ever a poster child of it can be done and that's how to do And he he said, "We've been following you guys a long time, and we just decided, I don't want to leave law school with debt." >> Yes. >> So, what did he do? He found a way. He worked his butt off to get a great LSAT score so that he got a full ride.

>> Yes. >> Is that difficult? Sure. Is he privileged? No. He just worked his butt off. He was smarter than you cuz he worked harder than you to be smarter than you. That's how it works.

>> I think I probably could work that hard and probably still wouldn't get >> I would love for Rachel I want Rachel and I to take the LSAT just to see who fails worse. We should just take the the SAT or the ACT again.

>> Yeah. Honestly, you could give me a common core math problem for a fifth grader and I'd fail it. >> Listen, it it is humbling doing homework with a with a fifth grader. You're like, "Oh, man.

>> Even solving for X at this point in my life would add some pretty." Yeah. When the fractions come in, you're like, "Oh man, I got to remember got to remember how to do this." >> It's crazy that we didn't end up using it.

Well, not that, but we use math every day on this show. We're sitting here >> basic math. >> Basically dividing by 12 all the time.

Divide it by 12. >> I've got an investment calculator at ramsolutions.com at the ready.

>> I know. >> So, take that. >> Oh, man. >> We need Dave back here with his financial calculator. The old school one at the desk. >> Oh, yeah. That just >> back to analog Dave. >> Let's go back. >> He's going to hold Keep that thing alive.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at 888255225.

Michelle keeps us going in Phoenix.

What's going on, Michelle?

>> Hi there. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm I'm excited. >> Oh, we are too. Don't be nervous. Rachel will guide you through this.

>> Okay. >> I'm the anxious one.

>> Um, where do I start?

>> You tell me what what ails you right now. What's the main thing on your mind?

>> Oh my gosh. Well, my husband and I have made stupid decisions and we are I just

turned 58. My husband is going to be 57

in August. Um, how do we overcome our large debt plus our house and the bills that come with that, but we have debtized amount? >> If you just kind of parse out the consumer debt versus your mortgage debt, how much consumer debt do you have?

>> Oh gosh. Um, let's see. That's about 1080. 10,000. 20 40. Oh, almost 50,000.

About 48,000.

>> Okay. >> Roughly. >> And what's your household income?

>> Um, we have 98,800 before tax and

insurance. Oh, and also I have a a school I will have school debt because I'm going to school. I was dumb going to get my masters and I graduate in a month thinking it was going to help me and I should have done it when I was younger. So that's on top of the 48.2.

>> Yes. >> How much more?

>> I think. Well, to be honest, I was kind of confused. When I looked at the FAA, it looked like it was 18,000, but then when I looked at my school's website, it said 28,000.

>> Oh boy. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> All right. That puts us at a grand total of about $76,000

in consumer debt.

>> Making 98. Okay. At least now we have facts and figures. That's all we're trying to do right now is sort of get out of the emotion and overwhelm and just go, okay, what's actually the reality of our situation, >> right? >> So, break down the other 48,000 in debt.

>> Um, a credit card for 10,8 or about

10,790.

Um, personal line of credit about 11,560.

Air conditioner. So, we had to buy two air conditioning units for our house last year because they broke in the middle of the summer and we were at within didn't know what to do. So, we ended up having to get a loan for that and that's about $25,83.

>> Yeah. And then the school debt.

>> Are either of you able to increase your income in the foreseeable future?

>> To be honest, that's what I was hoping I would be able to do. And it to be I I

didn't have any luck. And it could be the way I interview. It could be my age.

you could be the everything wrapped into one. That's why I thought getting my masters, which is something I wanted to do years ago. Um, but I started and then

I stopped back in 21 when my mom got sick. So then I thought I'm going to finish it in hoping that would help me.

So we ended up getting jobs that are hard labor and for our age, I'm actually kind of, you know, I was kind of embarrassed that I had to go back to a hard labor job, but you got to do what you got to do to pay bills, you know.

But I have been there for two and a half years. So I was hoping to grow in that company since I've already been there.

>> Will the MBA help you? Will that give you a raise? >> Um, not necessarily. Not the job I'm in

right now, but I was hoping it would help me get promoted, but uh the job is kind of um it's kind of a different company how they promote within.

>> Well, if I were you, I'd be going, how can I use this MBA to double my salary so that I can get out of debt before I retire? That's really the goal now is can we get out of this thing in the next three, four, five years, maybe stack up retirement. Do you guys have anything in retirement? >> No.

Well, and that's the other night. It was one of the stupid things we did when we moved from Minnesota to Arizona. Um, we used my husband's retirement and pension at that time. Uh, and then we were pretty good, but then we were making dumb decisions.

>> What do you mean you used >> for the move? >> You cashed out? >> Well, we move Well, no. Well, we cashed it out, but we bought a place that was paid for.

And then we ended up selling it thinking that would be the way to go and it wasn't the way to go.

So, >> but now you have a mortgage.

>> And now we have a mortgage because we had to have a bigger house. It's just the whole thing. We had to have our daughters and grandbabies live with us.

It was kind of a >> Michelle, the key word in your life you need to get rid of is we had to.

>> That is what has caused you to be broke at every turn. We had to. We had to. We had to. >> Yeah. >> You have to retire with dignity. That's the only have to at this point. So everything else is out the window.

>> Yeah. Out of the 98 that you guys bring home a year, what per what what number do you bring home? When does what does he bring home? >> Um mine is 44,48.

I wrote it down before so I could be ready for the call. Um and then and then his is 54,392.

And of course it's all before tax and everything. >> Okay. And >> and we're not doing 401k.

>> Okay. Tell us about the house. How much do you owe on the house?

Um, what was it? 343,658.

>> You owe 340. And how much is it worth?

>> Um, maybe about 500,000.

>> Okay. >> What's the payment on that?

>> Yeah. 2270.

>> And what's your take-home pay every month? Is it close to like five or six grand? >> Uh, about that, I think, total together.

Um, because I think he brings after he pays the insurance. So six plus mine's like 5 to 1,100 per week maybe give or take. Yeah.

>> Do you still need this bigger house?

>> Not really. And I've told I've talked to my husband about that, but he's really set in his ways and hard to change, but maybe it will. >> And he does hard labor at 57.

>> Yeah, he Yeah, we work at the same same company. >> Well, he's going to be setting his ways until he realizes he can't keep this up for 10 years to climb out of this mess >> and then he's going to be forced to. So, if I'm in your shoes, truthfully, based on what you've told me, I would consider selling the house, clearing all of your debt. That way, your income can now be used to fund retirement, and you guys just rent for a while.

>> And if your income goes up and you can own a home again, that's great.

>> Okay.

>> But right now, you're stuck.

>> Yeah. You could clear 150 out of the home. Um, man, I don't know. There's a part of me, I don't know, George, that if you could go, I mean, and it's going to be a different type of lifestyle, Michelle. So, I just don't know if if how you guys would feel about this, >> but if you could find something, a $200,000 condo or 100 I mean, if you could get a one, I mean, I don't even know. >> Yeah. Downgrade and pay cash. >> Pay cash and then that frees up 2500 a

month that you guys could throw at this debt >> cuz that's almost half your take-home pay going out to this mortgage alone.

So, you're not going to be able to make head headway on your debt. And you guys need to start being creative because you're going to be working for another decade. And if you can't stay in this job, >> then you guys are going to have have to start getting creative and think through where else long term could we be to be making even more money if possible.

Obviously, I know that's ideal.

>> There is another thing too that we So, my mom just passed and we did get a little bit of inheritance from her. So, we ended up buying a condo and paid cash for it as an investment property. What?

>> Um, and >> you buried the lead, Michelle. Go live in that thing. Forget your renters.

Can you go live there?

>> I wouldn't want to, but I mean, you got to do what you got to do sometimes.

>> Yeah. You told me you're you're willing.

>> How much is How much is that worth?

>> Probably about 150.

>> So, either move into it or sell it >> and then you can maybe stay in this home. >> Yes. >> The mortgage is still too much for your take-home pay, so it doesn't solve that problem, but at least it clears your debt. >> True. >> Yeah. I would I'd sell the house and I

would go move in something smaller and I'd sell that investment property. Michelle, you guys have $78,000 in consumer debt and no retirement.

>> No, sell it, pay off this debt, invest the rest and be done. That's >> it's your choice. You can try to work until 70 and maybe get out of this thing and still have a mortgage or you can do it our way and find a path to freedom way sooner. That's what I would be doing if I was in your shoes. I ain't doing hard labor. Look at me.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, conflicting data, and it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month at about $439,000.

The number of homes for sale hit a million for the third month in a row.

So, buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. The average 15-year fixed rate dipped to uh 5.86% last

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Or if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube, click the link in the show notes. Stephen is in Nashville up next. Stephen, welcome to the show.

>> Hi there. Thanks for taking the call.

>> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> Uh, so a few years ago, a friend of mine came to me and asked to start a business. It's a landscape service, you know, project based business. and um things have been going well. You know, we've been growing, making money, and then out of the blue said that, you know, he can't do doesn't want to continue the partnership anymore.

And we have an operating agreement. So, I said, "Okay, well, we'll go about it the way that the agreement says.

worth anything. It's only worth what we own." And I believe that's different based on, you know, the goodwill and the cash flow and and and the profit that we've made. And we've kind of reached a stalemate at this point. And I don't really know where to go from here as far as um how to kind of leverage the

situation to to kind of get this clean and over with. You know, I got a big >> So, does he not want to pay to get a valuation cuz he thinks it's worth nothing? Is that the deal? >> No, he doesn't want to pay for the company. and he kind of just wants to dissolve it and then start the exact same thing on his own. Uh, you know, the second that that's done. >> What does the valuation cost?

>> Uh, I mean 1,500 to 2500 depending on uh

>> and have you done that already? Have you gotten an evaluation? >> I've I've got an informal one and then I spoke with an SBA lender um that's a friend of mine and gave him our tax returns and said, "Hey, say I was trying to buy out my business partner. what would you guys approve, you know, on a loan because obviously they're they're not in the business of making bad deals and uh they said a valuation of around

775, you know, so making my 50% shares

anywhere from that 350 to 360 range.

>> Yeah, that's a big gap from it's worth nothing to it's worth 34 of a million dollar. >> Now, I would not go into debt to buy him out. If you wanted to continue this, you could do some sort of like profit >> share. Yeah. Sorry, I'm a little confused. Is he just wanting to leave?

He wants out and wants to start his own.

>> He wants me out. >> Oh, he wants you out. Oh, I'm sorry.

>> He basically wants to just leave. And I was like, well, just let him leave and you keep the whole business. >> Yeah. What does the operating agreement say if the business one of the partners want to get out?

>> It says obviously get a valuation done.

um you know then multiply that by your shares or 50/50 owners and then you can

either do it through an SBA or if the operating agreement says a 20% down and then four quarterly installments for 60 you know 60 quarters so basically 15 years which is kind of egregious I think and that puts me at risk in case you know he defaults um and I would you know that

whoever's on the other end of that uh I wouldn't imagine that that's Do you guys have any debt in the business currently?

>> Yeah. Uh like equipment and machine loans. Probably a little over,000. I think 120,000.

>> Well, I mean, if the agreement says you get a valuation, then I don't see how it's illegal for you to take that out of the business checking account and go get a valuation. What's stopping you from doing that? >> I don't That's not the That's not the issue. It's that whatever that valuation comes back as, he's going to say, "No,

it's not worth that. I'm not paying that. Um, why don't you just buy me out

and then I'll There's a two-year non-compete attached to our operating agreement." But, >> well, if it's worth nothing, then you don't have to buy him out.

>> Isn't that what he's saying? >> That's what I'm thinking. I don't understand. >> Let him let it be worth nothing and go, "All right, there's nothing to give you." So, >> and then he can leave and start his own thing, right?

>> Yes. Now, the other part that comes into it is I picked up my essentially my life and moved out of Nashville down to, you know, we're kind of in his home turf where he grew up. I'm from Ohio. Um,

football brought me down here and so I'm

in a area that really the only reason I moved down here was cuz we were running a business that was that was doing well and um so >> Well, are you capable of running the business on your own or hiring someone to help? >> Sure. Yeah, no doubt. I'm definitely capable, but if he's going to turn around and start another >> Well, where do you want to live, Stephen?

>> Uh about, you know, in the Nashville area. We're about an hour and some, you know, an hour and change.

>> So, you would rather live somewhere else. So, then why don't you go get new clients elsewhere?

>> I can do that. Um, obviously, you know,

selling the house that I live in now, I got my first child due in a month, not even a month, less than a month. Um, my wife's, you know, we do have health insurance through her job here. Uh, the logistics of it all are just not great to leave with no form of compensation or

buyout in in that case. Um,

>> I'm guessing nobody would actually buy your business.

>> I mean, no, probably they're not in a very desirable location. And >> is that what And that's his argument is that it's not worth >> Yeah. He says it's not worth. Obviously, if we sold it to an outside buyer, it would be tough for them to do that. Now, all the contacts that we've built in the last 3 years, if he is still going to continue, >> is he going to poach all the current clients?

>> He I mean, yeah. Essentially, yes. If we

were to divide ourselves right now and I start my own company and you start your own company, we're going to be competing, you know, >> for the same clients.

>> He's going, "Hey, I started my own thing. Come come over here. Sure.

>> Yeah. You you guys need to come to a consensus on what these next steps are.

Otherwise, this is going to be a blood bath.

>> Exactly.

>> Now, the debt part is the debt in >> Yep.

>> Uh it's an LLC, you know, so we're we each have 50% of it.

>> Okay. So, if he leaves the business, he's still liable for the debt.

>> Yes. And >> has he thought through that? >> Unless I were to say unless I were to

>> Well, no. He doesn't want to leave the business. He's not going to leave the business. He wants to get me out of the business. >> I thought he wants to start his own.

>> Yeah. And >> And you don't want to do this.

>> You don't want to do this anymore, right? >> I do, but I'm not I don't want to I'm not going to do it by myself down here where I'm >> And he can't afford to buy you out to do this solo. >> I mean, he could. >> He's saying that he though. Yeah.

>> That's what I'm so confused about.

>> Well, he wants to do solo. He's got a couple of options. Either you guys just dissolve the business. You start your own thing, he starts his.

Uh, you sell the assets, pay off the debt, and just say, "What a bad deal that was." You go your way, I go mine, and you got to outperform him in your new in your new gig. You know what I mean? To to get it competition-wise because you're not willing to move.

>> You're stuck regardless of the business.

So we're So you either are going to do this business or do a business like this

or you got to go find a different job or you go move >> and do this business if you feel like the competition is too much. >> I would move you know I would move if

you know we each took six figure salaries last year and essentially nothing's going to change for you know for my partner it whether we dissolve or he buys me out like he's still going to continue like like business as usual.

Well you >> and so without me in the picture there goes a six figure raise. So I'm figuring if I could be compensated somehow for you know giving you% of this company back. >> Yes. But Stephen that makes it doesn't make sense. If he wants out if he wants if he wants the business by himself then yes then he needs to write you a check.

I 100% agree. And if he's not willing to write you a check then you can say I'm not leaving the business. Then he has to decide he's out and he may go start his own thing and then yeah you got competition in the area but it is what it is. Mhm. >> So, >> yeah, but I still have the infrastructure and everything of our business. Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you got to you got to >> say good luck, bud. Game on.

>> Yeah. >> And then you >> That's kind of what I was thinking that it was going to end it on is, well, if you're not going to buy me out, then we're going to continue to be partners.

>> This is a classic. We can do this the hard way or the easy way.

>> But the debt tied to it is a whole another thing you guys got to figure out. you guys form a new agreement saying, "Hey, we're staying in this thing until the debts are paid and then here's how it's going to get divvied up." I think maybe you rip up the current one and draw a new one up that makes sense for both of you cuz the current one is not not really working.

>> A ship that does not sail partnership

>> nailed it. >> It's a it's a hard thing to do and it ruins the friendship. It does on top of it all.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseyolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz. And in the third chair, we've added a special guest. We've got Matt Clark, president and chief operating officer at Church Hill Mortgage. You've heard of Church Hill because they've been our trusted mortgage partner for more than 30 years now. And Matt has over two decades of experience at Church Hill.

He's got some deep industry knowledge. So, we wanted to bring him on to help explain to our audience what the heck is going on in the housing market. When are the rates going to magically come down?

Matt, where is your crystal ball? >> Well, if I had a crystal ball and I knew where rates were going to go, I wouldn't be here right now. >> I think that's the biggest question for us. >> Be on an island somewhere.

>> Be on an island somewhere. >> Oh, it's so hard. >> Rates are just unstable right now with everything that's going on in the geopolitical climate with the war in Iran, with oil prices. I mean, rates are very sensitive to those things.

And so it's really hard to tell what rates are going to do. They're they're quite unstable.

They get worse really fast and it takes a long time for them to come back down and get better. >> And so I just think right now people just need to recognize that they got to be patient and there's no way to really predict what rates are going to do.

>> Yeah. Would you say you're pretty confident they'll probably like would we ever see in our lifetime the like 2% again? Like do you think that's probably from the past? Would you assume >> ever is a long time, but I'm not banking

on them coming down to the 2% >> to what it was. Yeah. Yeah. >> Do you find that there's some golden handcuffs out there with people that are hanging on to their 3% rate and so

they're never going to move. Now they're like, "Well, now I'm stuck here. This was my starter home and now it's the forever home." >> Yeah, I do. I think we call that rate locked that people are afraid to let go of that rate.

And at the end of the day, I think if they can afford and they want to buy a house right now, even though their rate may their rate may go up, if it fits their budget, it may not be a bad idea. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, speaking of budget, first-time home buyers, that's that's the most frustrated population out there cuz they're going, "Dude, how do I step into this jump rope going 90 m hour? I'm going to get hurt." >> What do you say to them when it comes to rates moving around?

How much that affects their mortgage payment?

>> I want to talk about pre-approval. It's something we don't talk about a lot on the show, but it's one of those things where you go through the process and you're like, I didn't understand I needed to do this. So, talk about preapproval. And Churchill has something special called certified home. >> We do. I mean, when I think about pre-approvals, I think there are really three different types of quote unquote approvals that a lender can give you.

There's they have a a phone call with you and collect some general information and tell you, "Yeah, I can approve you for X amount." And that's a a pre-qualification. And they take that piece of paper and they bring it to their real estate agent. And that agent presents that when they make an offer on a home. And quite frankly, it's not really worth a whole lot because it's not gone through any evaluation.

We most likely haven't collected a lot of documentation. Then there's your standard pre-approval where you collect some information.

based on some automated models, and we send you out with a pre-approval. And then there's what we do at Churchill, which is what we call a certified home buyer. And with a certified home buyer program, we actually fully underwrite your credit and send you off with a

fully credited approved approval, which

allows you to really shop with confidence. And we put on top of that a rate secured program where we lock you in for an extended period of time, 90 days. >> Oh, wow. So that it takes the uncertainty of that approval away >> because you know if interest rates go up, you're already protected and >> you get to keep that lower rate.

>> You get to keep that lower rate and if they go down, we just lock you in when you find a house at the market rate. So you get the best of both worlds. >> That's impressive.

if you present an offer to a seller with a certified home buyer, we guarantee that seller that your credit is good.

The only thing that could go wrong there is appraisal or title work. And if something something happens, we pay the seller 10 grand. >> Wow. >> So, just to back up that process, >> that's impressive.

So, on a spectrum, let me recap this. You have the this person might be good for the money. You have they're probably good for the money with a standard pre-approval. And then you have the they are definitely good for the money with the certified home buyer program.

>> You're able to go into that. So, you know, we have a lot of new listeners to the show. I feel like even most of our callers, they're like, I've just just got on to you guys. So people that are looking to get into the market, but they're doing the baby steps.

So they're working their way out of debt.

>> Okay. At that point, you know, their credit score may be tanking as we speak

andor it's undetermined if it's been long enough, right? They don't have a credit score. So that is one thing that's a little different with Ramsay that we say yes, you can still get a house without a credit score. And we always recommend you guys because you guys are always the place that we say to go to because not everyone can do it, not everyone will do it.

But what does that look like to get a mortgage without a credit score? >> First, the I want to make sure people hear this clearly. Getting a mortgage without a credit score does not mean credit score doesn't matter if you have one. >> Yes, >> it doesn't bypass your current score.

>> It doesn't bypass your score if you if you have one. >> So, the tanking one not good. You can't really buy home. Yeah, >> tanking one is a challenge.

But when you when you come to us with no credit score or what's called an indeterminable score, >> uh we look at um trade lines.

your ability to pay your bills. And so you have to have more than just living in mom and dad's basement, not paying any bills on your own. You actually have to have some sort of established history of taking care of your financial responsibilities. things like cell phone bills and other utility bills or other types of monthly payments that we can use to create an alternate credit

profile and move you forward on a on a um no score loan. >> And that's on top of 12 months of rental

payment history because a lot of people say, "Well, I live with mom and dad. We never had an agreement about it." And you guys go, "Well, we don't know that you can pay a housing bill on time." >> 12 months of housing payments part of that process as well, >> isn't that? So, yeah. So that's the important part, but it can be done, which I think is >> Yeah.

I mean, I've done it. I know that that's not saying much because everyone goes, "Well, it was easy for you to say, no, I got out of debt, didn't have a credit score, and you guys are the specialists in no score loans." I imagine you've probably done more no score loans in the modern world than any mortgage lender out there. >> More in the modern world than anyone ever.

>> I tell I talk to real estate agents, they go, "You can't do that." And I go, "Yeah, I can. Have you not heard of Churchill Mortgage? Where you been?

>> Watch me." >> Oh my goodness. Well, I do want to hit on closing costs because a lot of people we talk about the down payment so much, but then people forget that there's other costs associated. So, what should people expect to pay when it comes to closing costs in general? This can vary widely.

>> Yeah, closing cost consists of a lot of different things. One, there are there are lender fees. Every lender has their own administrative fees, processing fees, underwriting fees. Then you have things that are going to be consistent across the industry.

You're going to have to pay for an appraisal. You're going to have to pay for title insurance. You're going to have to pay for credit report fees.

taxes and tax transfer fees that you have to pay for. And so when you think about rate and you think about getting to the closing table, there's a lot of things that will impact what you have to bring to the table in your closing cost.

The key is getting that transparently put in front of you early on so you're not surprised at the end. And you can get those estimates from your loan officer saying, "Help me understand all of the things I'm going to be paying for so that I'm ready." >> Yep. Yep. Comp, HOA fees, all of those things end up surprising people at the end.

>> Yes. >> Which creates problems for them not having an amount of cash to come to closing with >> to be able to do it all. Yeah. So the full picture is so key.

So someone that is entering into the market for the first time, they may feel kind of intimidated and they're like, "Oh my gosh, am I ready?

We'll say for first-time home buyers or maybe people that haven't, you know, maybe they do they locked in the 2% and they're like we're never going to move and they're like okay actually we're going to look for another house and but it's been decades since they've bought something new. What are a couple of things that you're like okay this would be good from your seat. You're like these are things that you probably need to do. >> Well, one talk to somebody who's going to be patient with you and ask you the right questions.

Find out what you're trying to accomplish and where you are. I remember so well when I bought my first house, 23 years old, I had a child. another one on the way. I was desperate to buy a house.

I found a realtor. They put me in touch with a agent, a loan officer they had a relationship with.

And I ended up not knowing anything.

>> And so I let my an anxiety cause me to make a bad decision and bought a house that was more than I could afford with a mortgage at a rate that I knew nothing about other than they told me I could afford it. >> So get get the facts.

Well, now thank you for being here. If you guys are ready to start your home buying process, the Ramsay way, Church Hill Mortgage can help. They're the folks we trust and they have a special offer for you. 500 bucks off your home appraisal credit at closing only at churchhill mortgage.com/ramsey offer. Go check it out. Thanks again, Matt. >> Thank you. Thanks for being here.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 5:10. He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income. This also is vanity. Chris Rock said, "Wealth is not about having a lot of money. It's about having a lot of options." Well said.

>> Yes, I agree with that. >> Both Solomon and Chris Rock bringing the heat. >> Love it. >> All right, Charlie is in Phoenix up next. What's going on, Charlie?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. >> Sure. >> So, um I'm um I've been retired for

about six or seven years. I'm 67 and

retired about 60 and we're currently worth about 2.4 $4 million.

>> Awesome. >> In annuities and IAS, um, Roth IRA and

our house and emergency fund about our

high yield savings about 300,000 and

emergency fund about 50,000.

But um so my call is is that and oh and

we we're debtree and in social security

we make about $56,000

in social security a year.

>> Okay. >> Between my wife and I and we have our annuity that pays about $25,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> And which we haven't even started taking yet, but that's what the current um balance would I mean the current um flow would be. >> Okay. And um and then also on the side,

I I officiate high school and college sports. I make about 25 to $30,000 doing

that. >> Wow. >> Nice. >> That's an impressive side hustle.

>> Yeah. So, um but I I have we have these

this these assets, but I'm still I'm

more collecting than I am spending.

That's my my problem here.

>> You want to start deumulating instead of accumulating. Oh, >> it can't seem to let go. And if I like my wife and I took a road trip just a week or so ago and I hooked up for like

five additional um volleyball games. It's one of the sports I ref um so I could pay for it even though I could pay for it, you know. >> Gotcha. Yes. >> It doesn't represent reality. It's just you're stuck in your scarcity loop right now. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I was just wondering what's a good way to try to change that. Um, you know,

like my wife says, "Well, I say I need something." She just go out and buy it.

And I was like, "Well, I got to go get a get a gig before I can buy so I can pay for it." >> Did you grow up with money?

>> Uh, no. >> Are you the first one in your family to be a millionaire and be at this place?

>> Uh, me and one of my other brothers, he's probably worth about 4 million probably. My other two brothers and sisters probably not close.

>> Okay. So, you guys have all done pretty well. >> Um, do you guys have a great financial advisor that you meet with maybe yearly

to look at everything? >> I have a um a Dave Ramsey approved

person and he just retired so he transferred me to another guy. So, I have I just got with him at the beginning of this year. >> Oh, good. Um, and um, so I just talked to him a couple weeks ago and I I told him I wanted to get together and talk about taking cash out just like we went on a cruise last year >> and I go, "Okay, I got to get all these gigs before I can go and pay for it." >> Right.

Right. Right. >> Oh, well, I think the idea of you working and still having a passion for something is just good for you as a human being, right? I still think there's like, you know, you still have this >> a reason to get up and shower is helpful.

>> Yeah, that's great. Um, so there's kind of the two ends of the spectrum here that you got to think about. One is just the facts.

year because you're bringing home probably around what, eight, nine grand a month between your refing, you know, those games and um the pension and everything coming in. And so anything above that, you know, what could we in a

safe way spend extra? And you can look

at that number and say, "Okay, great." And if you want to continue to spend that, that's fine. But what I would say though is I would, this is the emotional side. So you have the tactical, you have the plan of what you can spend. And then what I would say is you don't have to spend all of it, but you need to be spending something extra every month, Charlie, because with money, you're you need to be giving some. Um, you've done your savings. >> I tithe. I do.

>> That's great. Yes. So, you do Yeah. your giving, your saving, and spending. Those are the three things that you need to be doing with money. And they all need to be balanced. And the spending is what's off for you. And so you kind of almost have to rebuild this habit of letting go

of some money and not having this tight control that you have because you know it's wild because on one end of the spectrum money can be such an idol for people that worship it and they spend it and there there's like the vanity side right of just the scripture you just read George but then on the other end it almost becomes an idol because it has so much control over us out of this fear that something's going to happen and I'm not going to be okay. And that fear, it's not rational, right? You got $2.4 million sitting there.

And so, we don't want to be unwise with that. But there needs to be some freedom in your life, Charlie. And and right now, the equation of the freedom to me is is letting go of some and spending and enjoying it.

and you're like, "Hey, or you know, I don't know if you have grown kids or grandkids, but you know, find something meaningful. I'm not saying you have to go buy a bunch of crap and just like have a bunch of stuff, >> but if there's things you can do to enhance your life, >> uh, or to make things easier, if you guys need someone to come clean the house once a week, you know, >> buying your time back is one of the best ways to spend your money. Buying experiences with people you love. Dr.

Arthur Brooks says one of the best things you can do with your money. >> So, we do have we have three kids and 17

grandkids. >> Oh, wow. How fun.

>> There's some reasons to spend money.

That's great. >> Yeah. Well, when they become fourth graders, we take them on a 3,000 mile road trip. >> Oh, that's fun. Yes. Yes.

>> We have one coming up this year. The destination Yellowstone. We go White River rafting. We're doing rodeos.

>> Oh, I love it. >> Traveling camp. >> But I Yeah. And so I just got to My wife

tells me that I just need to get out of that mode of saving. I I had to go from a saver to a spender.

>> Yes. And it's been a hard transition.

Even though when she wants to do something, I'll go, "Okay, I'll go get a couple gigs and we can pay for it." You know? >> Right. Right. >> And so, >> what if you just cut the side hustle for six months and said, "I'm not going to do it and I'm going to spend money." >> Would that free you? >> And that's a hard that's a hard thing because I'm in a leadership role in one of the side gigs.

>> Oh, they need you now. Like, hey man, you're running this show >> and you enjoy it, right, Charlie? In general. I well this is my 50th year

officiating record.

>> Oh that might be a world record.

>> That's amazing. I don't know about that which I appreciate your advice and you know I do listen to you quite often. You talk about side gigs and delivery and stuff like that. I would encourage you to tell tell people to look into officiating wrestling or officiating in general because I do make 30 to 50 60

bucks an hour doing that. That's impressive. >> That is good. Is it wrestling? Is that what you said? >> I do I do mostly wrestling. That's what I have 50 years in. 25 in volleyball.

>> Okay. >> And I played baseball at one time also.

That's awesome. >> Good for you. >> Well, I would have a little dream date with your wife and you know, buy the apps, buy the desserts, the stuff that makes you feel guilty and do it without guilt. And then have a little dream date where you go, "Hey, if we were to spend x amount of money this year, where would we divvy it all out?" and then put it in the budget and go, "Hey, we decided, remember, we preddecided that we're going to send the money over here and we're going to buy this thing here.

>> Yeah. Because it's all about balance at this point. And you you guys have done a fantastic job, Charlie. I mean, unbelievable. What did what careers did you and your wife have to accumulate $2.4 million? was a my wife was a

stay-at-home mom until our youngest uh

went to what I think it was high school.

So, she did 16 years as a dental assistant. >> Yep. >> And then I was uh I I don't I don't have

a college degree or anything, but I was

a computer engineer for IBM IBM

mainframe engineer for like 30 years.

>> Okay. That's awesome. >> Good for you. That's amazing. Absolutely amazing. And one thing to do with that Smart Vtor Pro, Charlie, that I think will be helpful is they can walk you through your current withdrawal rate of, hey, you're spending $50,000 a year out of this much of your nest egg. That's a 1% spend. You can go up to three, four,

five without ever running out of money.

>> And they can show you the actual dollar amount of, hey, you could up it to 2% or two and a half or three or four, which is $100,000, and still never run out of

money. I think some of those trusted,

you know, investment advis,

not because I feel like I need punishment, that >> I need to. That's right. That's right. Well, well done, Charlie. You guys are a success story. Absolutely amazing.

>> Good problem to have. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 277. Your Debt Will Catch You Eventually—Face It Now | December 12, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Network, star of Front Row Seat, as my co-host today.

Open Phones at8255225.

Teresa is in Providence, Rhode Island.

Hi, Teresa. How are you?

>> I am good, gentlemen. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Excellent. Are you in a good mood?

That's the first question.

>> Because I need you to sit back and think. I want you to count to three before you answer my question.

>> Wow. Okay. I can't wait to hear what this is. >> I will say as his co-host, I just spoke with him for about 5 minutes. I think he's in a fabulous mood. I don't know if that helps you. >> Appreciate that. >> Well, no, I had nothing to do with it. Don't give me any credit.

>> Wow. >> This is interesting. >> Okay. All right. >> We need a weather forecast before we bring the question. All right.

>> We do. Okay. Here we go. Dark and Stormy. I have an ex-husband. I have two children. My ex has a girlfriend and a

son. And we are all great friends. We

give white trash new meaning without a doubt. Every Saturday we go to brunch together and then we have a misery and we do something together that's miserable. That's why we call it the misery trip. But my point here is neither one of my children who are 23 and 21, financially sound, out of school, in good careers, no debt, bank in their coin like you read about, can't buy houses. So we're thinking of a family compound.

We're thinking of do we put it in a trust? Do we have each person have a

quarter say in it? What happens when one of them wants to leave this compound?

Do we have to have a vote so that they can go out, but they have to have equity to go with them so they could buy their own house? Not that I think anybody would ever leave the compound, but just to throw it out there as a possibility.

So, we want to do it the right way, but we all want to have our own little independent houses on this land.

Can it be done without, I don't know, shotgunning each other?

And you should know in our family dynamics, we have very expensive purses and very expensive guns. And I will agree with you. Two guns to a purse is absolutely correct.

>> I will say this sounds like a great idea for a reality show.

>> Oh yeah, we could put Kardashians out of business.

No doubt in my mind.

>> Wow. Well, y'all are a lot of fun. Um,

>> yeah. So my right my problem is both kids want to do houses but they can't afford it. >> Yes they can >> singly. Yes they can. >> Well they can in five years.

>> Well so what? They'll still be in their 20s. People buy a house in their 20s first time. That's not an end of war.

>> All right. Well we kind All right. Fair enough. We were we were all talking about if we did it and we kind of put a trust together cuz I'm on the hill coming down. I don't want anything in my name. >> I think there's more downside than upside here. This is one of those things that all of the variables would have to work >> perfectly for everyone to come out intact. And as we all know, all the

variables never work out perfectly. So, um there's just so many >> uh negative things that can happen from this that outweigh the few positives that I wouldn't do it.

>> Okay? >> You could get stuck. This weird relationship you've got could go sideways again. You know, it could be,

you know, the kid could get stuck in there and and or marries a girl who doesn't want anything to do with this compound and then he's stuck and then we have to have a communal vote like it's communism or something. No, this just No, I'm >> um >> you're against it. Just maybe all buy houses on the same block. >> That'd be fine. Or if you bought a piece of property and everyone had a had their own parcel that was marketable and

everybody's not pissed if they sell it later, you know, then um >> Oh, that's an option then. So, just get a larger piece of land where it can be parcled out to each of us. But again, >> again, as long as everybody's cool when I sell my house and move

>> at that point, I don't Well, the right the older ones will, like I said, I'm on the hill down, so I have I was looking not to put anything in my name necessarily. >> Well, I'm not that that, you know, it doesn't matter. or just whoever has a piece of property, they have their own life and they have boundaries and they

have legal rights and they have relational rights to at some at some point someday sell this house cuz about the only thing I'm sure of is there are no forever homes except heaven.

And so at some point your son is a

grandfather and he wants to move away where his kids

are in Phoenix and somebody's going to

be pissed if it the whole thing's based on well you're the one that broke it all up, you know, and I don't I don't need that thing. I just don't need any of that. So our kids all our three kids live within a mile of each other and within 25 minutes of Sharon and I. But

everybody has owns their own thing and everybody's allowed to buy or sell and we talk about it sometimes as as as just you know family relations cheer one of

one of ours bought sold a home and moved up considerably the other day and we were cheering them on and we have a discussion about it but we don't get to say no you can't do that or we're mad at you. >> Yeah, that uh that freaked me out just listening to that and I would say this, you got to know when you've got a win and take the win and be okay with the win. And I think the weekly brunch where you guys are all happy in this crazy scenario is a win. I think you should leave it there.

That's a miracle in and of itself.

Don't try to make this whole living thing this controlled community. It just

feels weird and someone's going to be let down. Yeah, good question. Good question. And you know, it's kind of a theme I've been on for the last two weeks, Ken. And I'll circle back on it, too, because the the one of the driving motivations was a 23

year old can't buy a house. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Or 26-y old can't buy a house in Orlando, Florida. Well, A, they can, but

B, they can't have been first victimized

by the large banks, the car companies, and the student loan machine.

And so if you're 26 and you have a $1,200 car payment because you got screwed by Lexus Motor Credit believing

you were building up your FICO score and

then you ran up a bunch of Visa debt because you're building up points that matter not to anyone anything.

And then you went and got a degree for $180,000 from a university that's some somehow supposed to make you successful in a degree field like left-handed puppetry or German poker history and then you can't figure out why you can't get a good job and you're $180,000 in debt. A and then you know and you just keep

going where these big banks, these car companies, the FICO program, the student loan program has trapped the Gen Z's and

the millennials. Now the millennials and the Gen Z's signed up for it. I went broke in my 20s because I was such an idiot. I signed up with these types of people and they took my head off.

But when people start talking about a 23 year old, 26 year old, it's not it's not affordable now. It's because they first and foremost have been screwed and they're trapped in all these other debt payments and that makes them think they can't buy a house. No, they they got to get out of that mess. That's right.

And quit playing footsie with these big banks cuz let me tell you, City Bank runs washed up actors on there saying, "What's in your wallet?" Bradley Cooper does not really live in a in a lobby, boys and girls. I'm just saying, you know, and at some point y'all got to go, I'm not going to get screwed by you people anymore. I'm not going to take it anymore.

I quit. And when Gen Z and millennials

start doing that, they get out of debt, the affordability crisis, in air quotes, will really start to go away.

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Carlos is with us in San Francisco. Oh, hey Carlos. How are you >> doing? Well, thank you for having me.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I kind of did what u you probably did a long time ago. I started a business and it was booming. Uh made my first million in a couple of years and um it just kind of went it's it just my

financial life just spiraled out of control and uh now I don't know if I should go bankrupt and um figure out a way how to get back on track. Um, I

haven't done any any um payroll taxes

and I owe since 2017 2018.

Um, I also haven't filed taxes since I

was in 2017 2018.

And um, credit cards, I have over $70,000 in credit card debt.

Um, I have a commercial line of credit,

which is another 30,000 that I owe the bank.

Um, I took an SBA loan out, which is the

emergency funding. This is during the uh PPP uh time. Um, sorry, I might have

it's the uh >> the one for COVID. Um, qualify for that

because I didn't file my 2021 or 2020 taxes. So, I had to actually get a loan out to keep my um employees on board with me and that's 132,500

there. So, alto together it's well over

$350,000 in debt. >> Is your business still open?

>> It is. I just uh had to let go of all of my employees and um I had to minimize

all of my accounts. Uh, currently I think I have like four or five accounts that I drive to every single night. Um, my industry is janitorial business. Um,

so yeah, it's uh it's tough. Um,

>> so what are you making with the three or four accounts?

>> So it's 9,777.

Uh, that's per month. And um, I did the

math on all my expenses.

Uh, they equal out to about 7,877

a month. >> Are you married?

>> I'm engaged.

>> Okay.

When do you plan to get married?

>> Oh, Jesus. Not anytime soon.

>> Okay. All right. What does she make?

>> I'd probably say around the 3,000 a month. >> Mhm. Okay. How old are you?

20. No, 38. Sorry. 38.

>> All right.

>> Well, this is a really, really scary situation. And it didn't happen suddenly. It's happened pretty gradually. Um, >> absolutely. >> So, really, really bad news for you that apparently you're not aware of. 941 payroll taxes are not bankruptible and neither and neither is the IRS. So, all

of your taxes are going to be there if you file bankruptcy.

Um, I'm not sure if this SBA loan is bankruptible because it's COVID related.

It might be. Um,

certainly the credit cards and the line of credit are uh bankruptible. Uh, but

you're not that, you know, >> the problem doesn't go away with bankruptcy is my point. You still got a

massive problem. And um so the first

thing I need you to do before we even talk about bankruptcy is when you get off the phone, I want you to go to ramseolutions.com and click on tax ELPs,

endorsed local providers, find the tax person in your area that we are, it's Ramsey trusted, and I want you to sit down with them and develop a strategy to get caught up on your filings.

Typically, when you have not filed this far back, um they'll take three years

tax returns, you don't have to go all the way to 2017.

And um and then you'll of course owe those taxes. And I don't know what they'll do with the potential owings from those others. The 941s, however, you withheld taxes on your employees,

right? >> Right. >> And then didn't pay it.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. That's a trust account and those live forever.

>> That's and that's the IRS puts that in the extremely serious bucket.

>> Yeah, >> that one is like really scary. So, you

need to develop a strategy with a tax person on the 941s and on getting your

returns caught up because here's what's scaring me. Um, apparently you didn't realize not paying income taxes is not a

criminal offense. Not filing is a

criminal offense.

>> Correct. >> 2561 people went to jail last year. They

put people in jail for not filing. Okay.

And you have not filed a lot. So, I want

you but but I I've never in 35 years of doing this seen someone actually get prison time or get criminally charged if they come forward. But if the IRS comes and finds you, you're going to be screwed. So, you need to take care of this proactively tomorrow. You need to

meet with a tax tax person and start developing a game plan on your back taxes and your back 941s. Then you can start looking at whether or not we, you know, what I would do is just not pay the credit card and cut it up. I would not pay the commercial line of credit and I would not pay the SBA, which by the way is what happens if you file bankruptcy, right?

>> Yeah. >> They don't get paid. So, I would not pay them and I would take all of the cash flow above living expenses and start dumping it first and foremost on the 941s and then secondly on whatever back

IRS taxes you have. And if one of these

others comes after you and tries to shut you down or foreclose on something or whatever, that might force you into bankruptcy. But we're going to address the non the things that are not bankruptable, which is the IRS

in this case, um before we bother with a

stupid line of credit or credit card.

>> Yeah. And then you go to working as hard as you can work and you properly pay and file your taxes every day for the rest of your life from this day forward.

>> Oh yeah. >> That has affected your ability to do business because it's a monster in the closet. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. And you you wake up in the middle of the night and you don't know why. I know. It's called stress and you're hurting.

>> You're hurting and you're scared.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's terrifying. So that that's what I would do. Are you in a good church by chance?

>> I I I don't go to church. I do believe in God. I just don't have the time to. I work. >> Yeah. You You don't have the time not to now. You You need a You need a relationship that is above and beyond hard work. You're not afraid of hard work. You've just made a mess and you need some people in your life that love you regardless of how messy you are. And

um that that's the place to get it. So, I'm going to I'm going to suggest you plug into that because it's the the answer to being terrified is to be in community and have friends.

Lonely people are super terrified more than people who have friends in their corner.

Make sense? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, get get some people in your corner.

I I have a homework assignment for you, Carlos. We don't have time to unpack it, but what I would have loved to have sat with you on is to identify what was going right. In other words, what was working when you were really killing it? You started the call saying, "We had some great success." I think you mentioned over a million dollars of revenue.

I think you need to at some point spend enough time to write it down and say, "What was working? What was I doing right when we were do when we were crushing it?" And in times of failure where businesses can go up and down, one of the great exercises is to identify that.

>> Go back to doing that. >> That's right. What has to change? What do I need to do in order to start doing that again?

Because that was a formula that worked. And I think right now, you're in a desperate situation. And so, if you can get some clarity through that exercise and start to repeat that again, that's your best chance to make more money and dig yourself out of this. And so Carlos, when you're working really, really, really hard and you're managing the money, we're going to buy food, lights, and water, shelter, transportation, and pay taxes, back taxes in your case.

And that's all you need to be doing right now. complete focus on that and complete focus on any new accounts you can add and start growing the business back again with a proper accounting system that keeps you caught up on these things because where you are is terrifying.

Hey, you call me back if we can be more help as you're fighting through this. We'll help you any way we can.

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Half a point drop in the Fed.

What's that going to do to mortgage rates? Probably going down some more.

What's that going to do to the housing market? Probably going to heat up a little bit. So, merry Christmas. If

you're buying or selling a home, it's a big deal. And with the clickbait and the headlines and all the data out there saying that you can't do it, it's awful.

It's horrible. It's not It's not great,

but it's not to the point you can't do it. You can do it. Home prices have held steady steady all through the winter.

They're hovering right around 424,000 median sales price in America. Mortgage

rates are at 5 a half and probably going on down um with this um they generally

follow the Fed as we all know. They're not directly tied, but generally follow it. If you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseyssolutions.com/market.

And always remember that there are Ramsey trusted real estate pros that you can get connected to at ramseyssolutions.com as well. Daryl is in Orlando. Hi Daryl.

How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hey Ken. How are you guys?

>> Great man. What's up?

>> Uh just got a question for you. Um,

luckily it's kind of a good question, but really I want you y'all's opinion on this. Um, I'll I'll throw out the question and then we'll fill in the details after for you to uh formulate your your thoughts. Uh, so the question is, my wife and I are both recently 61.

So she's retired. I've got nine more years. So, what I'm thinking or what what we're considering, would it be reasonable for us to cut back on our uh

401 on my 401k contributions to free up

some fund money for us?

>> How much are you putting into your 401k percentage wise? >> Uh percentage-wise, 16% which right now

is about 33 34,000. It's the uh the max

plus the ketchup. >> So, you make two you make 200 a year.

about 220. Yep. >> And And so 34 from 200 is 167. 166. And

you can't have any fun on 166.

>> Oh, no. We're having fun now, but we're thinking we could have maybe a little more fun, do a little more giving, that kind of thing. >> Mhm. Okay.

>> We're We're empty nesters. Kids are >> Why do I have a feeling I'm going to hear a ridiculously large number in this 401k right now?

>> It's I wouldn't call it ridiculously large. Well, a little bit of background

and and thanks to your teachings, Dave.

Uh, our net worth is about 2.1. Um, 1.3

of that is invest cash and investments, the other 800 in real estate.

So, um, my my thought is the if I don't

even touch the money that's there, it should probably double over that 9-year period. >> It'll more than double over the nine years. Yeah, it'll double double in about seven, assuming you're invested in good mutual funds.

Um, >> yeah. Yeah, they've done well.

>> Yeah. Does your wife work outside the home?

>> No, no, no. She's uh >> Oh, you said that. You said that earlier. Okay. So, what are you talking about reducing this?

>> Cutting it back from maybe uh 16% to

like 10% and free up about about 12,000

a year. About about a,000 a month, >> which is, you know, I kind of look at that as maybe an extra cruise.

>> Okay. Well, you're certainly okay. And

yet, yeah, you're right. your 1.2 in

mutual funds would be 2.4, you know,

when you're 68. And when you're 75, uh,

it's going to be 5 million. And that's if you don't touch it and you just let it grow. And I got a feeling you're going to be able to do that. House is paid off, right? >> I think so. >> Yep. >> Okay. Zero debt. >> Real estate is paid off. >> Zero debt. No debt. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, kind of what we're doing is some sometimes the way people view retirement is suddenly, okay? Like you save save, then you retire and you live off the savings. Okay?

>> Right? >> And so what we're doing is kind of going for the last last nine years, we're just kind of going to go in the middle. We're going to save a little less. We're going to save a little less and use that money now rather than later. And is it going to hurt you? Not substantially. Um, yeah, I probably would do this. Yeah, >> but I I'm just I'm just curious.

>> If you told me you had a half a million dollars in saving in in your investments, I would say no.

>> Yeah, I get that. >> Okay. >> And Darl, I have no problem with what Dave said. I I I always lean that direction. Live life. But I am curious with your income and and no debt and just how responsible you've been. This is all about $12,000. Yeah.

>> Could Dave and I not find $12,000 in your existing budget?

Oh, we could, but um it's just like like

I said, we we do things now. I mean, you know, we go on trips with our friends, but you know, this would be a little extra here again to not only maybe do an extra trip or two, but also give you some more to our local charities and that kind of thing, which we do quite a bit of now. But uh this would just I mean it the way I look at it it's about $100,000 $108,000 of spending now to

versus um but I did did the math it's a

difference of about 180,000 at the 16%

versus uh 10%.

>> Yeah. >> So >> well not and you're not counting what it's going to grow to over that nine years. But still that's that's okay.

you. It's not none of this is going to put you anywhere near anything except really wealthy. And so, yeah, you're fine. You're fine. And I I I think I would do that. And in in your situation,

it's it's what your desire is.

>> So, there's one of the things that um we get a lot of, Ken, and this is not that call, but it's like, I've saved and now I don't know how to have fun, >> right? >> You know, I've got this big old pile of money. Now, how do I reprogram my brain from being frugal all the time to actually enjoying some of it? And so, um, uh, you know, Daryl doesn't have that trouble. >> No, no, >> but Daryl's okay. He's done a good job.

And you've got, you know, you're a multi-millionaire at 61 years old.

Congratulations, sir. The American dream is alive and well.

>> There are Daryls out there everywhere, boys and girls.

>> Your communist college professor was wrong. They're everywhere.

This this is the greatest land the world has ever known. The greatest opportunity for someone who has nothing to become wealthy in the history of mankind. There

are darls everywhere and we've got the data to prove it. Yeah. Pick up Baby Steps Millionaires the book the latest um not the latest one of the latest bestsellers I've had and the study on millionaires is the white paper in the back of it. You can look at all the research. It's there. It's there's a lot of Daryls out there. And he's done a great job. Oh, yeah. And and I want to make sure people caught this. He's still talking about working nine more years.

And as Dave pointed out, that 2.1 or whatever it was million is going to double, more than double in that nine-year period. And then through their 70s, it's going to double again. And if they live in their 80s. So, I mean, long-term, the amount of money he's got already is going to be way more than enough as it just does compound interest. Amanda is in Columbus, Mississippi. Hi, Amanda. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> So, um, my question is, how do my husband and I navigate money and in-laws during the holidays? So, we are we'll

officially be out of debt in 18 months.

We have about $105,000 left with a

combined salary of $162,000.

Um, we both decided not to travel while we were in the process of paying off debt because we're broke. So, we couldn't even, you know, afford to travel. >> Good. However, our my in-laws are wanting to come see us. Um, and we don't have the greatest relationship. Uh, the biggest issue is that they both have a alcohol problem. Uh, my father-in-law is

very violent and unpredictable when when drunk. He's like tried to attack my husband. He's attacked his daughter. Um, they verbally attacked me. Um, >> what's that got to do with travel?

>> Well, they they're basically saying that we want to come see you.

>> That's fine. come see us. Get a hotel.

>> Well, we told them that. But the issue is is that they drink. And so even if >> Well, if they're visiting, if anybody's visiting your home and gets violent, they just have to leave. But they have a hotel.

>> Yes, they will have a hotel. So, we did make it clear that we, you know, we didn't want them to stay with us. Um, >> I mean, this has nothing to do with you being on baby step two. This has to do with how you're going to how you and your husband are going to make a decision of someone coming into your home potentially drunk and potentially violent.

That's all this is. Has nothing to do with travel. Has nothing to do with baby step two. It's just how am I what kind of boundaries am I going to put up?

What kind of communication am I going to have? I wish Dr. John Deloney was here.

You don't want him to come and you don't want to be near him. So it again has anything to do with baby step two. But if you if your husband wants to have him come to the hotel and visit, come by. As long as you guys are sober and not violent, you're welcome to come by. But don't bring the drunk and don't bring this violence with you or it won't work out. You know, that's all that is.

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>> Andrew is in Los Angeles. Hi, Andrew.

How are you?

>> I'm good, Mr. Andrew. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> Um, I I have a question. Um, so about 10

years ago, my dad passed away. Um, and so my my mom, she uh >> she uh took on a lot of the the life insurance money. And so she downsized her house uh about three years ago and used half of that half of it to pay for the house and use the other half to show as income. Well, she's been nickeling and dimining that for the past three years and she's out of money.

So, I if she downsized her house,

>> why did she need to use the insurance money?

>> Um, she sold it and so she used it was

half of the insurance money and half of the equity that she made from her previous house. >> Oh, I see. How much insurance money did she receive?

>> Uh, I want to say roughly 300,000.

>> Okay. So, she used 150 7 years after he

passes.

>> Yeah. No, I'm I'm sorry. She used so she received about 300 from there and then received another 250 from the last previous house that we had. Um so she she got she used the equity to pretty much pay for this new house 3 years ago.

>> How much was it? >> And so she's in right now it's 240,000 that's owed.

>> Oh, she owes money on the house.

>> Yes.

And so my question is um what should we

do? Uh me and my fiance are planning to buy a house in the next year. I'm suggesting maybe she sell the house and

she can help me invest in a house and so she has a place to live with us where my brother is suggesting she ran out the house and use that to pay for itself.

And might I also mention she has zero debt also just other than the house. So

the house that she currently lives in, she owes 250 on.

>> Yeah. 240. Yes. >> And what is it worth?

>> Roughly five. >> Okay. And so why does she she for 10 years he's been gone. Is she not work?

>> She No, she was not working.

>> How old is she?

>> She's 57.

>> Okay. Well, there's the problem, hun.

It's not the house. She needs to get a job.

She thought 300,000 was 3 million.

>> It's not. >> Mhm. >> And now she needs a job.

>> So what what should our plans be? Should >> there's not our plan? Her plan should be she gets a job. Your plan should be you get married and start a life and no, you don't move in with her and no, you don't use any of her money and she needs her money and no, we we don't have a plan.

She needs a plan. and she needs to get a job and quit burning through this cash.

And you need to get married and have a life and just love wave over there at your mom and say, "I love you."

>> Yeah, I'm scared for her.

>> I I'm scared for her, too, because her habits are horrible.

>> I cannot believe somebody's gone. She's 47 years old when he died, and she's developed zero income since then.

>> 57. She's been unemployed for maybe 5 years. >> No, she's 57 now, you said.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, he died 10 years ago,

>> roughly. >> Yeah. 47. That's how that works. Yeah.

So, >> yeah. So, I mean, she's not working,

dude. Yeah. Yeah. It's not your problem.

But what we're trying to help you see is is that while you have the emotions, and you can have the emotions for her and feel bad for her and be scared for her, but also have to live your own life.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm scared for you, Mom. You need to get a job. Matter of fact, you needed to get a job five years ago when you lost the other one or whatever happened five years ago. So, she worked five of the 10 years. But, um otherwise, you're going to lose this house because you're going to burn through this money.

This is not there's not enough money here to support you. Have you not figured the math out on that, Mom? And uh I love you. I'm cheering for you. I sure hope you go get a job and I hope you quit burning through this money. Uh because that's what really really really desperately needs to happen. And I'll you know I'll introduce you all this Ramsay stuff and they'll help you cuz we'd love to help her. That I'd be happy to do that. But um wow. But yeah, you

you don't you you're not in a position to rescue her and you using some of her money to buy you a house that she lives in. Yeah, that's a little self- serving.

No thank you. No, I'll pass on that one, too. let you know you guys need to just

love her for where she is and coach her and cheer for her and hopefully she'll follow some of that and that's where I

would go. Josh is with us. Josh in Orlando, Florida. Hi Josh. How are you?

>> Doing good sir. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah. So, it's a struggling to pay off a mountain of credit card debt and

helping with my spouse sticking to a

budget.

>> Mhm.

>> How does how does putting together how does putting together the budget work at your house? >> How involved is your spouse putting it together?

>> Uh, I'm the one solidating the budget.

>> Yeah. >> They don't. So, she's having trouble sticking to your budget that she didn't have a vote on. No shock.

>> Yes. It's uh problem is it was up to me to create the budget. She would did not want to be involved. >> Yeah. >> That's fine. But she has to get involved once it's created and look at it and have a vote because we two adults need to accomplish our common goals that we have in this marriage, which is survive and prosper.

>> Yes. >> So, honey, we got to sit down and look at this together. This is what I think it looks like. Now I need you to look at it and make your changes and then we are going to both agree to stick too after we make the changes because we actually have to be adults. Devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good.

And we both have to be adults in this.

And gosh, I need your help. I need your vote. I need your set of eyes. I need your wisdom. And I need your input. And I need your buy in. And all those things come together. So, but you you can't do

a budget and then come in like like Moses coming down from the mountain with two tablets and go this is what God says. It doesn't work.

>> Yes. And one struggle is we come from

two different perspectives on budgeting and money. I was raised more on the Ramsy method and

she comes from a Hispanic household and they more of the freely spend and the

bills. >> That's not a Hispanic disease, dude.

>> That's just a disease. Everybody's got it. Greeningo's got it too, man. So, you

know, that's just No, that's hillbillies, Cinjun, Italians. We all

got that same disease, man. So, no, that's uh uh it's it's called growing up, and I'm going to live on less than I make. I'm not in the US Congress, and so we need to sit down together. But it's about her being a grown woman instead of a little girl who's being taken care of by her man. That's bull crap. So, the

two of y'all sit down together and work on this together. Ken, when people work together like that, it's it increases communication, cooperation. You're agreeing on your dreams, you're agreeing on your fears. It changes everything.

>> Yeah, it does. And I I think in this case, it's less about obviously the uh

uh the race of somebody, but it is the environment that they grew up in. And so your household was very different with how they approached money and her house was different. So now we've got to get on the same page. And I think I would be asking more questions of your of your wife. And I would be asking her, is it the principle of every dollar knowing

where it's going? uh or is it the process that you just don't like? And it seems and I would ask these questions.

You may already know the answer, but to get her in a conversation, she's not on the witness stand. You know, you're not attacking. You're just going, "Hey, help me understand what about the budgeting

process you don't agree with or don't like. I need your help." >> Yes. But the more you can get understanding of why she thinks or acts

the way she does about money, the better chance you have at getting on the same page. And so this is a conversation. It

might end up in counseling in a good way, not a crisis, but a hey, we need a professional to help us communicate our fears, our desires around money so we get on the same page. But Dave, you're absolutely right. We when we listen to Deere Screams, it's most obvious when you hear the story, no matter which spouse brought the idea home or Dave's book or whatever has happened. Once they fully get on the same page, it's unbelievable momentum.

And we hear it all the time. And by the way, it's not just money momentum, relationship momentum across the table. Yeah. The typical debtree scream says it changed our marriage.

That's right. When we started working together, it increased communication.

It's just so much easier. But I would just frame it in I need your help and we got to be two grown-ups and we got to do this together. Your vote counts.

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Code Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Ken

Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of the front row seat on Ramsay Networks. He's my

co-host today. Gina's in Boston. Hi, Gina. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah, I think I really need your wisdom today. I've been following you now for almost a year. Um I'm a single mother of two boys, both teenagers now, but I solely raised myself. Um but I'm about to I'm engaged and about to get married um middle next year. Um he's a very good man, very hardworking, but I think he's dealing with um financial situation. he has multiple debts and um lots of things

that don't just seem right with him and most of the things he didn't tell me. I got to find out over the course of our dating for about a year. Um because I

was able to step in, we put in some structure, but I'm a little bit worried about what happens when we get married.

Um how do we merge finances? What do I do? Um and and >> how much debt does he have?

Um about $100,000.

>> Okay. And what does he make?

>> About 58. >> Okay. And what kind of debt is it?

>> Um 80,000 is student loan which he abandoned until I made him pick up again. Um and so he started making payments on that. And then the rest are between credit card debts and different

um debts that have been defaulted.

>> Okay. Did you say that he didn't tell you about these debts and you had to find them?

>> He didn't tell me except for the student loan.

>> Okay. Why?

>> I don't know. So, when I stumbled on it, I asked questions and I went straight to the government site. Um, I did a case look up and I saw a series of about three or so deaths and he claimed that I

mean he knew about some of them. I don't even know. It didn't make any sense. No answer. But why didn't you tell me? He said he was worried, he was scared that I would, you know, feel bad about him

>> or not trust him, but he's willing to start making payments. And so he together we're able to put a structure.

I pray out the seven baby steps introduced into Dave Ramsey. And >> well, the big the big question is not the debts. The big question is, is this guy going to lie to you every time he's ashamed?

>> That's what I'm worried about. And so I don't know how to make progress with, you know, settling down. Do we match finances? Do we separate those things?

>> Yeah. I think I think you guys need some good pre-marriage counseling because trust was broken and um you're you're

uncomfortable with a lack of trust.

>> Yeah, I I agree. I there's a good sign that when you brought up the student loan uh that he said, "Okay, I'm going to pick it back up. I think he wants to

uh please you, but he's got to get healthy himself." So, I think Dave's right. some premarital counseling and maybe some some one-on-one counseling for him. I would press pause. If you were my sister or cousin or family member and you told me this, I'd say I would press pause. And I'm going to tell you that today >> until you can until you can answer the question and looking in the mirror and say, "I completely trust this man."

>> You really shouldn't put a ring on something that you don't trust.

>> It's a bad idea. Um cuz that's going to

that that parlays into a whole bunch of things then. >> Yeah. >> And so well he was ashamed. Okay. I I get why he hid it >> and it's perfectly logical but there's

one person on the planet that you have to trust and that's got to be your spouse.

And if you can't um then that's either sign of the relationship is struggling or broken or

you know one or both parties. How we're interacting and sometimes that is a everyone should spend time on premarriage counseling. By the way, the data says that the likelihood of your marriage surviving is greatly increased

with in-depth premarriage counseling because you not only learn how to talk to each other, you learn how to deal with all the rest of the family in that process. And boy, that's a thing. Yeah.

And so on. So yeah, you guys need to do that anyway. But in this case, you could dig this out. It might not be anything serious, but you can't you're you have

doubt.

And doubt is not how you walk down the aisle. >> Uh not on something as major as trust.

So yeah, you got to get where say, I trust this man. I'm I'm committing my life to spending my life with this man.

that that's a lot of trust. And so, um, yeah, and and you're single mom with two kids and he's going to be involved with the kids. You got to be able to trust him and he's got to be able to open up to you. You got to be a safe place to

say, "I made a mistake." Uh, a safe place to have a discussion that's uncomfortable. And, uh, maybe you are, maybe you aren't. I don't know. But, uh, um, but I would spend it on that.

Patson's in Iowa. Hi, Pat. What's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure, how can we help? >> I'd like an I like an I like an opinion whether I can my wife and I can buy a a winter home based on our financial situation. >> A winter home? Where's the winter home?

>> Florida. >> Oh, a winter home where it's warm in the winter. >> That's what I was wondering, too. Where are we going? >> Pretty cool. I thought we were going ice fishing for a minute. Okay.

>> All right. And so, >> yeah, you've already got it in Iowa.

You're in it. Yeah, you already got you already got that figured out. Okay, cool. So, what does the uh Florida home cost?

>> Well, we're thinking around 300,000.

>> Do you have 300,000?

>> Well, yeah, we do. You would like a little rundown of where I'm at?

>> Sure. How much what's your net worth?

>> Well, our net worth is about 1.3

and uh net income self and two pensions

is about 85 and our yearly RMD is about

22. And what's your uh what's your uh

age?

>> We are both 75.

>> Okay. All right. What's your current home worth?

>> Current homes worth about 280.

>> And you got family in that area?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, you're going to have 300 and 300 in real estate. 600 out of 1.2. And

the other 6 or 800 will be in your retirement, I assume.

>> Yes, >> I would do that. Yes. Okay.

>> If I'm paying cash is weak.

>> You have no debt. You have no debt.

>> I'm sorry. You have no debt. No. Okay.

And we rarely rarely touch the portfolio except for the R&D. >> Yeah. So, how much um time are you

already spending in Florida?

>> Four months. >> What are you doing when you're there? Where what kind of housing are you just renting a house?

>> Yes, we're renting a house. We've been doing this for about eight years and the rent runs about 13,000 for the four months and we figured we could use that to cover the maintenance on something we buy. >> Yeah. Easily. And it goes up in value.

Yeah. Actually, that's exactly what I was going to suggest cuz some people think they want second homes and they've never done it. And um but you've been doing it. You've got you've you've you've had your practice run. You've tried the shoe on. It fits.

>> So yeah, that that even ensures even more that I'm doing this. Way to go, man. Congratulations.

Retires a millionaire. >> Yeah. So fun. And boy oh boy,

getting out of Iowa in the winter time.

Have you ever been to Iowa? I bet you have. I remember a February, it was a speaking gig at one point and I remember getting out of the car to go into the hotel and I couldn't breathe for 15 seconds. This blast of cold air hit me and I'm like, who lives here? And I went around the town interviewing people. How do you do this?

No, it's great. I love that. So that's very that's a classic there. Are are you old enough to where like you're when you were growing up people had the goal of someday retiring in Florida?

>> No question. Yeah. >> Okay. It was like it was like the retirement state. >> No question. >> When I was a kid that was like you had arrived. >> Yeah. if you got a place in Florida and that's >> Bokea Del Vista or whatever it was on Seinfeld.

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Well, if you feel like me, you're, you know, feel like sometimes you're starting from scratch with your money. I don't feel that way now, but I remember feeling that way. It's not because you aren't disciplined, and it's not because you're not consistent. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. And emotions are part of personal finance.

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Andrew is with us in Chicago. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Good. How are you Dave and Ken? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I just got a quick question basically regarding investments. So, my wife and I uh we've been married for going on three years now. We've got a 5-month old daughter. We've uh worked through the first three baby steps, paid off everything except for the house. Got our three to six months saved and we both invest into our 401k through like our workplaces and we're just looking like where do we go next to get to that like 15% that you guys recommend?

>> Okay. So, you maxed your 401ks?

>> Yes, sir. I am um I match at 3% here at my work and my wife is same with uh her um employer through her school.

>> Now max means you put all you can put in not up to 3%. >> Sorry I I thought you said match my >> No, I'm sorry. Max. Uh so have you got a

401k that has a Roth option?

>> It does not. No, that that's what I was going to ask about. >> Okay, so here's the here's the thing we found out. Match is best. So get all the match you can. And you've done that with your 3%. Does your wife have a match?

>> I am 90% sure it's the same at match at 3%. >> Perfect. That's easy. That means we still need to put 12% of our household income away somewhere. What is your household income?

>> Um roughly um probably right around that

90,000 a year roughly.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. So let's 15% is

um you know 14,000 and some change, right? And so, and we're already putting

3% away.

>> So, let's call that 3,000. So, let's just say we need to put another 10 or 11,000 away. You both can do a Roth IRA

and just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvester Pro.

>> Okay? >> And click on Smart Veester. You'll be introduced to one of our Smart Vesttor pros or two or three of them and you can choose which one you want to work with. They've got the heart of a teacher.

They'll sit down, teach you about this, and then show you how to do it, and help you actually create the Roth IRA in some

good growth stock mutual funds. And it

sounds like you guys need to be putting away somewhere around 10,000. So, you could put, you know, five or 6,000 each

into a Roth IRA and have a really good plan going with a 3% over at work. And the 3% over at work also needs to be in good growth stock mutual funds. If you take your options that you're allowed to invest in down to the uh Smart Investor

Pro, when you sit down with them, they'll help you pick out your 401k options while they're getting your IRA signed up. And then if you want to open a 529 for your kids college, you can do that there, too. Very easy to do. And uh

but it's a you know it's like anything the very first time you do it there's a little bit of intimid intimidation but investing is really not that intellectually challenging. There's not that much to it and um but and so once

you get started on it and you start understanding it, you're going to go, "Oh, that's all there is to it. Oh, that's it. No big deal." And and you you'll be just fine. So that's really good question, sir. Very well done.

You're going to be very wealthy. That's cool. Oh, you're getting started early.

I love it. I love it. I love it. Very good. Carlos is in Austin, Texas. Hey,

Carlos. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. It's an honor to talk to you.

I've been listening to your show since I was 14 and I'm 26 now. So, >> wow.

>> My question is, um, so my wife and I, we

recently lost our baby >> and it's kind of got us rethinking like, you know, what are we doing with our lives? So, I just had a question. Um,

is it a good idea to take money out of our

investments and pay off our house or should we just leave that money and let it keep compounding? And I kind of had hopes of leaving my corporate career and trying to retire and live off of that

>> at 26. How realistic that is.

>> Yeah.

Um,

man, I'm sorry you lost your baby.

Um, >> yeah, >> it's heartbreaking, but >> doing doing nothing doing nothing for the rest of your life because your heart is broken. Um, is a

method of hiding from the pain.

>> And if you don't want to work in corporate America, I don't blame you for that. But we need to be doing something.

>> Oh, for sure. Yeah.

>> You're you're too valuable. You need to be adding value to our lives out here.

>> Yeah. I think it's just how do we do the corporate exit, you know, and my idea was like, well, I want to this year I've been doing stock option trading and

anyways, pretty much quit that.

>> Go ahead. >> With everything going on. Yeah. It's

kind of funny. I asked AI. I said, "What would Dave Ramsey say?" He knew I was trading options. He said something like, "You're playing with fire in a suit dousing gasoline." So, that kind of woke me up. >> Hold on. Let's get it. Let's get the real man's Let's get the real version.

Take >> That's sounds pretty good. I'm going >> That's what I thought. >> I'm going with that. >> Uh I'm I'm curious to know what your current nest egg is, if you have one at all. By the way, you set this question up. What is your financial picture as far as investments?

the cash like 420.

>> How much in your how much in your retirement accounts?

>> Uh well that that's counting my retirement account. >> Oh that's in your retirement accounts. Well you've done really well for 26.

>> But dude you're not ready to retire. I mean you 20 not enough to retire.

>> I mean my whole goal or dream I guess was like oh you know if I keep doing the stock option trading I can you know create a new income and leave my corporate job. But >> yeah, I think you do need to create a different income. Not there.

>> And I think you do need to leave the corporate job after you have created a different income. >> But I uh but I don't think you need to retire.

>> Yeah, >> you're you don't have enough money to retire, >> right? That's kind of the problem I was facing. >> Here's a fun exercise. >> Good year. But >> I I'm I give you my book. I'm going to give you my book as a gift. Find the work you're wired to do. It has about a 20minut assessment in it. It's going to spit out uh with the help of AI a really

good job description where you can use what you do best to do what you love to produce results you care about. And I'm going to tell you, it's a great exercise in this time of hurt, but it's also going to set you up because because I think you know the answer. I don't have time to pull it out of you, but I think there's a couple ideas that if you could make a smart financial transition from where you are today to where you want to be, I think you would pull the trigger on it. And I think that's the kind of life you're looking for.

So hang on, we we'll give you that book.

yourself, who are the people I really want to help? What problem or desire do they have? And begin to lock into what

your why is as it relates to work. And I think you'll find it'll help you heal as you see that uh even though this is a devastating loss, you and your wife aren't on the shelf, you will recover from this pain in time. And I think this

pain will inform you, both of you, and how you live your life going forward and begin to look to the future as you heal.

>> Yeah. I I would not um spend my energies

trying to escape. I would lean into my marriage relationship really hard and cuz she's hurting as much or more than you are. And I would talk about that. I

would talk about, you know, what who have we got to see to help us process and work through grief? What is the

process there? Because this is a new experience and it's a difficult experience.

And um not working is not going to make

it all feel better.

that that's the problem. And so I think you're barking up the wrong tree on that part.

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com/ramsey not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Bobby in Idaho. My financial adviserss tell me I need long-term insurance for estate planning purposes. I'm 50 years old and he told me that a term policy may not reach out far enough considering my age and that a whole life policy would be permanent.

I'm leaving a home to one of my children and would like to leave the other children my life insurance proceeds. Which type of insurance would you recommend? Uh, well, I'm going to get out of the way because, you know, Dave's not said a whole lot about whole life, but in the past, and I feel like this is a perfect time to let you maybe uh hit a teed up ball down the fairway, but we would always say term life. Tell them why, Dave.

>> Yeah.

>> That's right. >> You have an insurance agent.

Financial adviserss don't tell people to buy whole life.

None of them.

Everybody in the whole financial world

thinks whole life is crap except the people that sell whole life and they're life insurance agents that sell whole life and they're dinosaurs.

They're dying off because people have learned to add in modernday America. So,

um well, here's what I would recommend. I would recommend whatever money you are going to put with your life insurance

agent that instead you actually get with an investment advisor and put that money into like a real investment. Life insurance is not an investment. Life insurance does not leave an estate.

We're not trying to leave your children wealthy by you buying life insurance.

Bad choice. much better off take what you were going to pay in premiums and just use it to become wealthy and leave that wealth to your kids. If it's not as much as the policy and you die too soon, oh well, your kids are going to have to be on their own. Oh well, weren't most of us? Hello. So, you don't leave someone wealthy with life insurance, whether it's term life or whole life.

Period. You certainly don't do it with whole life. And so, um, no, you know,

the only reason you carry life insurance is if you have a family of children at home and a wife or a husband at home that need to replace your income if you die. You are beyond that. And this person is just trying to sell you some crap.

And so, you need to do what's known as run away from this person. And I don't

think you need life insurance at all, term or anything. I wouldn't tell you to do that based on your question. I would go a different direction completely.

Beiju is with us. Beiju is in Long Island. Hi Beiju. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Uh great to talk to you again.

>> You too. How can we help?

>> Uh when my dad passed away last year, he left my mom $96,000. No problem. Um she

has she had brain surgery, so she's not all there. So I convinced her to put the money into an autorenewing CD with my brother >> and in October >> Oh. So we wouldn't touch it. And >> with your brothers.

>> Yeah. >> Why? >> Cuz she only has two sons. So it it would we we thought it'd be like an easy split putting in a CD.

>> I I didn't think of anything else.

>> Okay. I don't know why your brother's on it. That's what I can't figure out. So what happened? How can we help? >> Oh, yeah. So um in October we had a

falling out and he kind of separated himself from us >> and you and your mom.

>> Uh my mom. Yeah. Oh, okay.

>> And um after the falling out, my mom, we were kind of like, "You think he took the money?" And I was like, "Mom, it's in a CD in both our names. He can't." >> Yes, he can. >> But it turns out he took it. Yeah.

And he took it out in March. So, we were like, "Oh, what do we do?" And I'm like, "I don't know, M.

>> I'm sorry. We're worried about pissing off somebody that stole $96,000 from their widowed mother.

>> I couldn't care less if he's pissed off.

>> I want to put him in front of an 18-wheeler.

>> Yeah, that's like one emotionally.

>> What a bum.

>> Yeah. back in March compared to the fight in October. I was like, whoa, he kind of planned this.

>> Yeah. >> My mom and I kind of talk about it and stuff like that, but you know, we're like, it's gone.

>> Okay. So, have you talked to him since you discovered he stole your mother's money? >> No, he he separated himself.

>> I know you, but you don't you don't have his phone number.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, >> but you didn't call him and say, "Hey, you stole mom's money." >> Oh, I I did that. I What did he say? And I was like, "Hey, who's he turned everything back on us saying, "Hey, you did this. You can't have everything." Like, >> "It's not you. It's not me. You took mom's money." >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, you do whatever you want to do. Um, Wow.

I don't know because you guys were so dumb. You put his name on it if it's really stealing or not. Ethically and morally it is. I'm not sure it is legally because his name was on the account. Did he fraudulently sign her name or did he just sign his name and took the money out?

>> Um, when I went to the bank, they just told me one person can take everything out. >> Yeah. Okay. So, it was just a joint on the account. It wasn't Yeah. So, he he technically had anything legally wrong.

Um, >> yeah. >> I It's March. It's been a year. My guess

is the bum has spent the money, don't you think?

>> I I couldn't even tell you. I mean like we think >> Well, I mean, what would you think if you were going to guess? >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, based on how we know him. Yeah.

>> Yeah. He spent it.

>> So, your mom's completely cold broke now?

>> No, she still has uh income from disability and social security and stuff like that, >> but I mean, she didn't have any money >> and that was um Yeah, she has a small checking account like 14,000 in there. Um but not

in you know and she didn't have any plans for the 96 and it's supposed to be for the both of us anyway. It was just that he took it all versus half and took it now versus after her passing.

>> Is she ill? How old is she?

>> Uh she's 81 and um she had a she had a

brain uh tumor glyobblasto. They got the majority of it but it kind of left her worst there.

As sad as this is, Dave, I don't know if it's worth the money and time to try to get nothing. I just don't know if there's anything to get from him. >> Yeah. I mean, your only option here is to hire an attorney and pay them to go after him. And but you can't attorneys

and courts don't make people have money when they don't have money. And if he's spent it all, it's just gone.

And even if you won a lawsuit, you can't get blood out of a rock. Right.

>> Exactly. >> And so you're going to spend you're going to spend $10,000 >> chasing your mom's money. I don't care

whether you or your brother got any money. I couldn't care less. Y'all are like grown-ups and you should be taking care of yourselves. But I I do care that he stole from his widowed mother.

It's like a new level of scum, you know.

And so, uh, you know, on that basis, you you have to decide you have two options.

One is you just throw up your hands and say, "Forget it. It's not worth it. It was a dumb thing to do to put his name on the account, which it was a dumb thing to do. And, uh, I'm just going to forget it and I'm going to walk away because there's nothing I can do about it anyway." Or you could spend $10,000 and never get a dime or might get a little of it if you sued him, maybe.

>> Yep. you know, but I >> you know, I don't um what would I do?

>> As painful as it would be for me, I would just walk away.

>> Okay. My mom has the same thing cuz she doesn't want more trouble at this point.

She just wants >> Well, this guy's not worth I don't care if we have trouble with this guy or not. This guy you want trouble with. He He needs to go away. Way away and stay away. I He He doesn't want to see me

again if I'm you. This is not good. Not

because of what he did to you. I couldn't care less what he did to you.

But you just I mean there's a couple

things in the Bible you don't steal from. Okay? Widows and orphans. And when you look that up, the things that happen to people that steal from widows and orphans, it's really nasty. This is this is a Bible thing you don't want to get across. Okay? And so I I don't want to be this guy. He's in he's in God's crosshairs. It's bad. Wow.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Chip is with us in Atlanta. Hi Chip. How are you? >> Fantastic. Dave, Ken, I hope y'all are doing well today. >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, you know Dave, I've had the blessing of being married 30 years. No, 30 years. So, I can't even get it right.

Retired 30 years, 20 some odd years. But because my wife introduced me to you many, many years ago, I thought she was having an affair, but it was just Dave Ramsey she was listening to every day.

>> Who is this Dave? >> Got me some round glasses and a goatee.

No, I'm just kidding. Just seem to be that way. But, uh, we we've also been teaching financial peace university for many years and making a difference in people's lives and we appreciate it and graduated from SCMT this year. So, >> wow.

>> Uh, a lot of thank yous for these things, but really my call is uh on the retirement. So, I've been with a big phone company for 30 years, and as you know, the big AI and everybody else kind of pushes us out the door. It was kind of time to go.

So, I'm still going to be doing some work. >> Good for you. >> Uh, just helping people and trying to make a blessing and a difference in their lives. Got an NFL player that was broke to zero and trying to get them out of debt.

That's terrible, but that's what we can do. But the question is is when it comes to the retirement planning of funds and I've talked to some of your smart investor pros, you know, I feel like I'm in the toothpaste aisle, Dave, because you know, people want me to do index funds and ETFs and mutuals and annuities and bonds and oh my and I feel like a deer in the middle of hunting season.

>> Well, the different ones are different different brokers. So, you have your major brokers that I'm talking to.

They're fiduciaries, but I'm also talking to financial planners through my church that are quote unquote qualified, certified. They may not be vest pros.

And none of your pros have sent me in any weird direction. They've given me some good advice, but like I said, it's just a lot of confusion with the ETFs, the, you know, mutuals, the bonds, and you know, the biggest one was, you know, one of my uh financial planners wanted me to put a million and a half in an annuity.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm I'll be 60 in April.

>> Okay. And what size is this nest egg?

>> Uh, we've got 2.2.

>> Okay. Good for you. Good for you. Okay.

>> Good for my wife. She's the one that kicked my rear. >> All right. Well, um, you know, I the the

Let's just quiet all all the noise. Um,

I don't do any of the things you're talking about. >> Yeah, I know. I'm 65. We don't teach it either. >> I'm 65, so why would you?

>> Yeah, I'm in agreement.

>> Okay. Well, that that pretty much shuts up everything. This is what we teach.

You have your four buckets. >> My personal, you know, mutual fund

portfolio with my Smart Investor Pro is

1/4 in aggressive, 1/4 in international, 1/4 in growth, and 1/4 in growth in income. all with long track records. I

hardly ever change funds. I buy funds

that perform as well or better than the funds in their same categories and they almost always do and I just don't worry

about it >> and they just and they just grow. I mean, the S&P was up 17% this year so

far and my funds are up more than that.

>> It's been a crazy couple of years.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, why do I need to do anything else? Mine's all been converted to Roth over the years. So, it's all growing taxfree. It'll all be left tax-free in the inheritance. There's no

RMDs on Roth. So, I'm completely free of

tax and free of tax constraints and I

don't touch any of it. I don't need any of it. It's all just growing more and more and more and more. And um it's very

simple. You do not need bonds. You do

not see the bond thing is based on a a

theory called asset alloca allocation.

And the theory of asset allocation is is that as you get older you should take less risk. And the problem is is that the financial planning community some of them have

uh overindexed on that theory to where they take a 60

year old and start putting him in bonds.

Now, if you don't smoke, you're not obese and you're fairly healthy at 60.

The data tells us you're going to live to 90 on average. So, that means these

morons are putting you in bonds for 30 freaking years. That's stupid.

>> Agreed. >> Okay, then why do we why are we even entertaining this?

>> As I said, I'm like looking at the toothpaste aisle and I should know better. >> Yeah. I mean, your teeth are clean and your breath smells good. Just keep using the one you've been using.

>> There you go. Just, >> you know, I mean, it's that simple. It's um Yeah, there there's enough there's enough opinions out there in the financial world. They're like armpits.

Everybody's got one. It usually stinks.

So, um you know, it's like,

>> well, I think this is, you know, this is actually an interesting this is a great guy. But here's a guy who has taken our financial training, has lived out the principles, he gives his wife a lot of credit, and yet he was allowing all of the flashy sales pitches, what he kept calling the toothpaste aisle to create some doubt. And I think that uh I appreciate him calling you, but I think this is important that everybody rewind

and listen to what Dave said because these are facts and how the stock market has performed over decades. And so it if

you can return to the fundamental facts of the investment strategy that Dave teaches and that we teach here, it's a

nice re it's it's a nice reminder. So write it down, save it, and listen to it when people come at you with all these pitches. >> And I think it's important to to say that not only is this what we teach, we've taught it for 30 years, but also it's what we do, correct? I don't have like a Dave plan and then a plan for the little people, right? >> You know, there was a financial person that was big in the news for years ago and um h had their portfolio on Money

Magazine and they're like, "Well, that's not what you tell people to do." And and the person said, "Well, well, you know, I'm in a different situation." >> No, I'm I'm not in a different situation. I'm same situation all y'all are in. >> You eat what you cook. >> That's it all the time.

I kill it. I drag it home. I eat it. It's that simple.

and and then I tell y'all exactly where the deer are. Let's go get one. You know, I mean, come on. This is not this is not this is where the ducks are.

Go get you a duck. I mean, what what is it you want? I mean, so it's not a this is not a thing.

way, there's not that you know, there's no secrets of the rich. No. And I want

to point out it's not a suggestion, Dave, >> that's kind of worked out for you. It's worked out for everybody who's ever adopted that plan. It is a solid

strategy. those four types of funds.

>> Never had anybody call me and say, "I did this for 25 years and I hate you." >> Right? >> Never had that hate mail. >> Correct. >> Most of my hate mail is on people who think something's going to turn out some way and they don't like the suggestion

and they've never done it that, you know, and that's where the hate that's where the trollers come from, the the trolls. And so I get to be Billy Goat Gruff, you know, and so that that's it.

But the um you know, if you actually do

the crap we teach on this show, you actually are going to be where Chip is $2.2 million at >> at 60 years old. This is this is,

>> you know, you're you're not going to have 40 million in Bitcoin,

but you're also not going to be bankrupt. So, you get to choose which one. What what game do you want to play here, boys and girls? But we eat what we cook. I mean, we cook what we eat. We eat what we cook. We We are not in here telling you to do something and then we don't go do it because we've got more money or whatever. I didn't hit a certain point and quit doing the stuff.

I hit a certain point and did more of the stuff. You know, it's like this is fun. Let's do it again. I mean, it's called touchdown.

This how you score a touchdown. I want to score another one. Let's do this again. Let's do this again.

Let's do this again over and over and over and over and over again. Rinse and repeat. My pastor was making fun of me. He said, "Dave, you say the same thing over and over." over and I said, "So, do you >> fair point?" Uh, you know what, Dave?

I think it'd be awesome. Hit the four funds. Hit hit our core financial strategy for people so they don't have to rewind. This is how much we're going to serve people.

>> A fourth in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in international, and a fourth in aggressive growth.

with the longest possible track record, preferably 10 years or more. If you're buying an independent mutual fund for an IRA from your Smart Investor Pro, like a Roth IRA, you definitely can choose funds that are longer than 10ear track record inside your 401k. They may or may not, but get good long track records. A and then, you know, look at them once a year and go, "Wow, look at this.

This is what's happening." And some years they go up, some years they go down, but most years they go up, and some years they go way up.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of Front Row Seat, a long form interview program on Ramsey Networks. Absolutely incredible. He's my co-host. Alex is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Alex. What's up?

Hey, Mr. Dave. Uh, how you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome, man. Uh, it is truly an honor to speak to you guys. Uh, I just want to say that uh I hear you uh every morning

to and from work and I just got to say I

think you have you have changed my life and and I haven't even did my my uh

debtree screen yet. Uh but uh

>> uh I have a quick question. I need uh some advice. I need to know what to do

what I promise that I did my 14-year-old

two years ago. Uh she was 12 at the time

and uh I told her that uh I would do her

sweet 15 and her sweet 15 is 5 months away. It's

right around the corner. I was kind of hoping she would kind of forget about it, but that didn't happen. And uh Okay.

Uh I am 36.

I'm married, four kids. Between me and

my wife, we make 175,000 a year. Uh we

have a paid for rental home that brings

in about 15,000 extra. So that's 190 a

year. Uh the only debt we have is our

mortgage. We owe 230,000.

Uh we have I have 25,000 in my Roth IRA. My

wife has about 60. Uh I got to say that

we I did some not so bright things three

four years ago before you came into my life. And uh I think we're in the right

track now. But this party is going to

cost us around $25,000. And I need to

know >> $25,000.

>> Yes. >> For what? For a 15y old.

>> It's a It's a sweet 15. It's something big that we do in our culture. Uh how we

were raised. And at the time when I promised it, >> I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm so confused. What culture are we talking about?

>> Uh I'm a I'm Latino. I'm a Hispanic.

>> Well, let me let me go deeper real quick. Go back when you were a kid. So I

mean 25 30 years ago. What did the part what did this traditional 15-year-old party consist of? >> Now, like when you were a kid, >> describe the party >> cuz your mom and daddy didn't spend $25,000 on your sister.

>> Uh, no. Spent closer to like 9,000. Uh,

but that was it consists of >> a venue, uh, a band decorations. The

dress alone was like $3,000, which my

brother paid for it already.

Your brother paid for your daughter's dress. >> Yes, she's uh my brother's my daughter's godfather, so it's kind of falls on him

when and uh he did the purchase of the dress already.

>> Okay. You didn't answer my question though. Like what did it cost? What did it cost when you were a kid?

>> Uh maybe 7 to 9,000.

>> How old are you? You said you're 36.

>> Wow. >> Yes, sir. So 20 years ago, you're saying your parents spent $9,000?

>> Yes.

>> And they had they obviously had some money.

>> Uh no. Um I can I can say that uh uh we

don't have a Dave Ramsey in Spanish for

us guys or for the guys who don't speak

English or don't understand, you know.

>> Well, how they pay for it? How they pay for it? They just they just worked. They

just worked non-stop. That's that's all I remember my dad just working non-stop and that's how they did it.

>> Okay. So, well, let me let me move that over into the land of greeningo for a minute to try to relate. All right.

>> Okay. >> Um, so it's, you know, it's normal or

traditional >> Yes. >> in the Anglo community for me to pay for my daughter's wedding.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. What is not dictated by the

tradition is what we spend.

>> Correct? >> It would be commensurate with common sense and with our income.

Okay? >> So, um

um you know, you've got to decide in in context of your world what is

reasonable. The reason you're calling me is it feels unreasonable to you.

>> It does. >> The amount, >> not the tradition.

>> The tradition is very normalized for you. You made that clear. I got it. I got it. I learned something today that I didn't know. Okay. It's very normalized for you. And that's fine. I The tradition of me paying for my daughter's wedding is very normalized for me. I didn't think anything about it. But also didn't spend money I didn't have. And I didn't and we didn't go uh spend money

that was crazy as a ratio just because I was guilted into it.

>> And this feels very much like you the language you're using around describing this. You sound like a man who is trapped.

>> I honestly feel like that cornered.

That's exactly how I feel.

>> And I have trouble as a dad being cornered by my teenager. It's quite the other way around.

>> Yes. Does it?

>> I do the cornering. They don't.

>> Yes. >> So, >> I guess it it makes it she it makes it hard on on me to make that call because

>> uh she is close to perfect. Um she helps

with straight A kids.

>> That does not earn you the right to visit the land of stupid.

>> Yes. >> That's not what we're doing. So, I think you sit down and you say, "Honey, I love you. I'm proud of you and who you are.

As per the tradition, two years ago, I promised that we were going to do this. Your uncle has bought the dress. We are going to have a very nice party. And here is the budget that I am setting for

the party. You don't get to set it.

You're 15.

>> Yes. >> You don't get a vote. You just get to come.

That's how it works. Okay. And so when Rachel came in and said, you know, Winston came in, asked for my permission to marry Rachel. We sat down. We said, "Okay, here's what we're going to put towards the wedding." We didn't say, "How much do you guys want?" And they

were like grown-ups. They were adults coming out of college. They weren't 15y olds. So, you know, honey, I'm going to help you with your car.

I'm going to decide how much that is.

You don't tell me with my money what I'm

going to do. And so, I don't know what's reasonable here. Maybe 25 is reasonable, but I'm not going to be held hostage

by outside forces in my own freaking

house or by a 15-year-old

or even by a tradition. Now, I may want

to honor the tradition because it's part of who I am and part of my cultural history and makeup. I don't have any problem with that at all. I wanted to honor paying for the wedding. You know, it might be time to learn what a potluck is. >> Have the family bring a dish to pass.

I'm okay if you cut it in half. I'm okay if you said or if you said 15. I'm just not okay that someone else is setting the number. >> Yeah. He just ran. He's like like somebody point a gun at him or something said you're doing this. No. No. So, I'm

going to flip the power structure here a little, Alex. That's that's where you need to go. And then you can honor your wonderful daughter in context with the

culture.

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Emily is with us in New York. Hi, Emily.

How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so my question is about if my husband and I are financially prepared to start a family or if we should wait a little bit longer to be responsible.

>> You're ready.

Um, maybe I would you like the background or is it out of blanket answer?

>> Uh, I'll give I'll I'll take the background as a courtesy. But here's the thing. We don't tell people to not have babies due to debt.

>> We tell them to not have huge numbers of babies. But, you know, your first baby, start a family is a wonderful thing.

It's the best thing you'll ever do while you're alive. And um we don't tell people to not do that because of a certain dollar figure around it. But let's hear it and I can give you some reassurance. How much debt do you guys have? >> Okay, so we actually um just have 30k of

student loans that are completely interest free between the two of us.

>> Okay, cool. And uh and what do you is that your only debt?

>> That's our only debt. >> And what is your household income?

So our that's the issue is that so our

household income is um $120,000 of a

base salary uh with $50,000 in equity

and that's >> my equity mean >> equity means so it's basically just registered stock units paid out quarterly because my husband works for um a large company and that's part of their compensation package. So, he can cash those out how often?

>> He can cash them out um whenever after

they vest. Like there's a vesting period. >> How long do they take for them to vest?

That's what I'm asking. >> Um this year it'll vest at the end of

the year and then after that it's quarterly. >> Oh wow. Okay. So fif So he makes $170,000 a year including his stock bonuses. >> Yes. But not this he won't make that this year because he just started with that company. Um, we're also both 24.

Uh, so there's a few considerations. We just recently got married. Um, but we're living in New York City and our rent is crazy. We don't have a car. We're our budget despite the salary is pretty tight. We don't have a lot of free cash every month. Um, and we are invested.

>> That's the problem is that we actually had to move to the States for this job for my husband. So, I had saved him and

I together had saved about 150k before we moved here. And then I had to give up my job thinking I'd be able to get another job, but the immigration restrictions on what jobs I'm allowed to work have been so tight that it's been a few months and I have nothing. So, before we moved here in our home country, I was making about 80k and now I'm making nothing. And I feel like I'm just kind of sitting around at home and I've always wanted to be a mom and I've always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.

and we're like, do we just start a few years earlier than we thought we would or should I >> So, are both of you on He's not on a green card. What's he on? HB1.

>> Um, no. He's on a a TN visa, which is

because we're from Canada. Oh, >> okay. Both both of you are from Canada.

So, you're on a green card?

>> Um, no. So, we'll work towards the green card process eventually if we want to stay in the US long term, but right now he's just on TN and I'm on a dependent spousal visa. >> Okay. So, what is the plan? Are you planning to stay or not?

>> Um, we'll see what his business requires. Um, as it's more of a following a passion for work thing than it is about immigrating somewhere specific. So, if the company requires him here, we'll stay here. If they require him in Canada, we'll go to Canada.

Um, >> what can you do right now? >> That's another factor. >> What kind of work can you do? What kind of work can you do that is immigration allowed?

Let me let me let me rephrase. You told us there were a ton of restrictions. So I'm wondering what kind of work can you do that's not restricted. >> Yeah. So to try to explain so basically

you can get a visa if your work aligns

with exactly what you did your undergraduate degree in. And I did my undergraduate degree in a science and then I had been working in consulting and project management and a business role before we moved here. And none of those qualify for a visa in the United States because it has to be a very specific technical job. Like my husband's an engineer, but project management does not qualify.

But I don't have any technical science experience despite my degree. So I'm having a really hard time finding a job that I'm legally allowed to work because I never plan to move to the States. Him and I now.

Does he have health insurance?

>> Yeah, he has really good health insurance. >> Okay. All right. And it will probably transfer were you to go back to Canada and have great health insurance there, right? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, we'd be fine. And with all the health care stuff, it's more just I don't I hear all the time,

>> oh, you don't need anything.

>> Three years three years from today, you will not be in this situation.

>> Correct. Once if we get a green card, >> something's going to happen. You're either going to get a green card or you're going to go back to Canada, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so this is a temporary, this

income is a temporary thing based on all the story that you've told us. And if I woke up in your shoes and you guys both want a child and God wants you to have a child, I would go have a child. That's what I would do. And there's, you know,

but do I want to be irresponsible and say neither one of us are working? No, I don't want to do that. or do I want to be irresponsible and have uh you know 10

kids and we make $30,000 a year and can't figure out a way to feed them. That's irresponsible too. I wouldn't want to do that. But to have a child when you're making 120,000 and you've got an uncertain immigration process looking in front of you in the next 5 years, I would definitely live my life.

I wouldn't put my life on hold for his

company, which is in a sense what we're doing.

And so no, I wouldn't do that. Uh uh and

and I think you can afford it and I think you can make it and you know you've got labor and delivery covered and you know babies are not as expensive as everybody acts like. It's not the end of the world and I think you guys can pull this off. You do whatever you want to do but that's what we would do at our house.

I I I just am so frustrated for her. I I I just bang my head against the wall metaphorically as I'm listening to this.

You know, here's a law-abiding Canadian.

She wants to work and the the the goofball rules that the government comes up with sometimes makes me want to just scream. >> Yeah. >> You know, because this is an opportunity to work and and if I understood her correctly, Dave, she can't do anything like she can't even go to Walmart and work. >> Right.

Right. She unless it's something to do with her degree, >> right? >> Her degree field. That's what she said.

I don't I'm not I'm not knowledgeable about anything. >> I am not either, but wow. >> Um but it's um it is frustrating. Either way, bottom line is she ends up at home and that makes her say, "I want to be a mom." >> Yeah.

>> I would tell them, get into every dollar, learn how to budget because I know that my parents, they scrapped by I don't know what your parents situation was, but they hardly had any money when I was born and they figured it out. And in some ways, it's a you know, that's a great way to get really responsible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It just it makes you pay attention and and every dollar is a good way to pay attention. You're exactly right. you're going to make every dollar behave, you know, and you need to anyway, but especially wakes up when you got another human you're supposed to be responsible for. And um that that's a

that that extra responsibility gives us that adults devise a plan and follow it.

Children do what feels good. So, we're going to do this. So, and I you know, I think she's being very responsible asking the question. I kind of poked fun and said, "Yes, just go have a baby." But, but you know, but the uh but I think it's it's a responsible question, which means they're going to be okay.

>> Yeah. Well, you know, I loved she told us how much money they saved before coming to the States. This is a couple that has learned how to be disciplined. It's a lot of money they saved. $150,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he's making 170. They can make it on that. This stuff best. You can cash that. Don't hold that stock and stack it up and starve to death. You know, cash that stock in. Take care of that baby. You You'll be okay. Just Just go on. Everything's going to be all right.

Oh. Oh.

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt-free stage, Britain and Paul are

with us. Merry Christmas, guys.

>> Merry Christmas. Good to have you guys.

Where do you all live? >> So, we're small town outside of Savannah, Richmond Hill, Georgia.

>> Oh, yeah. Very nice. Beautiful area.

Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thanks for all the way here to do a debt-free scream.

>> How much you paid off? You want to do uh $127,000.

I I want to get it down to the penny.

$1978.

>> I love it. How long did it take take to pay that off?

>> 27 months. >> Wow. And your range of income during that two and a half years? >> We started around 120,000. Uh and we're

knocking on the door 212.

>> Wow. That's a big jump in that period of time. What do you all do for a living?

>> Um I'm a commercial insurance underwriter. >> And I just sell fertilizer to golf courses and landscape companies.

>> Oh, good time to be doing that. Well done. I just Yeah, good for you. So, what kind of debt was the 127,000, >> Dave? We had the the millennial package.

Um, we had u from uh car loans to debt consolidation

loans. We uh >> ELOC. Yeah, that was a good one.

>> Credit cards. >> Credit cards. Uh what else do we have in there? >> Um personal like family loan.

>> Um >> student loan. >> Oh, yeah. Both of us. Absolutely.

>> And IRS. Yep. >> IRS. Oh, even the IRS. We checked all the boxes. And we put a cherry on top.

All right. There we go. So, yeah, we had them all >> at the full package. >> Absolutely. >> The deluxe package. All right.

>> So, what happened uh two and a half years ago? Cuz how long have y'all been married? >> 11 years. >> 11 years. All right. And what happened two and a half years ago that gave this uh little wakeup call here and you say, "Okay, things are about to change." >> Um well, for me, um we were he was just

turning 40. I was about to turn 40. It was around tax season and I was I looked at how much we made and I was like, "This is crazy. Why do we have no money?" Um, and then he kind of had the same wakeup call around the same time whenever we got the heliloc. And so I was just in Goodwill one day and I saw the total money makeover and I was like, "hm, I think I'm think I'm just going to get this." >> You bought the story makeover in good.

>> THAT IS AWESOME.

>> That's the best part of the story. I love it. >> Yep. He read it in about two days and then he told me I had to read it so I read it in about two days and it just kicked off everything.

>> Yeah, we were done, Dave. We uh our septic system went out >> uh and we had to take a heliloc out to fix that. Um >> so that was it for me. Um and she was we were there at the same time.

We both been there a couple, you know, >> apart at different times and we hit that moment together and >> you know through God found you guys. Um >> and you just flipped the switch and went hard >> hard from day one.

There was no one catching up. No one to No one at all. Just the timing was perfect for both of you. >> Sure was. >> Wow. That's that's unusual, but it's very cool. >> Yep. It took a few tries and this one this one is for >> Yeah. What was there a moment in this process where you guys began to very much experience the momentum? You know, we talk about the debt snowball and I'm just curious as a couple who did this.

Do you remember when you felt that momentum like, "Okay, this is starting to pay off. We can see this." >> You're going to love this one. So, we had uh I had a whole life policy um

>> that I was convinced to buy in my 20s.

>> Uh we cashed that bad boy out. Uh paid off the IRS um and then a couple of the small credit cards.

>> Mhm. >> And we saw that number and the margin, you know, the margin started to show up and >> and so that got the ball rolling, uh the snowball, I guess we could say. And um so it just kind of went from there. But, >> you know, just accepting that mistake.

Um, I didn't even figure out how much I had spent on that policy leading into this moment. I just said, you know what, this is a a blessing >> that that money's there and it got us started and and and from there it's >> it's been a long 27 months, but it's gone pretty fast, too, at the same time, if that makes sense. >> What was the hardest thing y'all did during that 27 months?

>> You got like teenage daughters, right? I mean, >> well, I was say we might need to get them on stage to answer that question.

So, um, yeah, our our 17-year-old, um,

day was kind of a cuss word in our household for a little bit. I've heard you say that before and it was kind of true. >> Keep dad out of Goodwill buying books, >> right? There was no more eating out. Um, so that was that was probably the hardest was getting the kids on board.

Um, or just getting them used to it. But now, like our 9-year-old will say for in the store, she'll say, "Hey, is this in the budget, mom?" So, it's she's there now. So, >> and our 17-year-old is determined now to go to college without student loans. So, Hey there. All right.

>> Definitely. So >> that's a breakthrough. Well done. Okay.

So you did change your family tree.

>> We did. Absolutely. >> They're watching and they're participating sometimes grudgingly, but they got it. It did click.

>> We stopped for Chick-fil-A twice on the way up here and didn't have to sweat about it. So it was a good a good change. >> Everybody got a combo? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Even ice cream, you know. >> Oh, you guys really are debtree if you went for the ice cream.

>> Uh how did it affect your marriage? you

the the easiest way to say it was such a

stressor for both of us, you know, and and money money lead money stress led to

just little arguments that that we don't have to have anymore. There's still stress and there's still life, but >> taking that money stress out of the equation. Uh it's helped us. It's also helped us see that, you know, we can accomplish if we put it together, we can accomplish, you know, whatever we want to do. >> It definitely as a couple for sure.

>> Yeah, definitely. It makes you believe that in that unity and the power of it.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. It's pretty cool. Very, very cool.

Well, congratulations. You guys, I mean, y'all are y'all are amazing. This is a power deal. I'm so proud of you.

>> We're excited to be here for sure. >> Who was uh who was cheering you on in this process? >> We had a pretty good group of cheerleaders. Um actually through through this process, uh we took FPU at our church. >> Oh, God. >> And then since then, uh it's Lifebridge Church in Savannah, Georgia. >> Okay. Um since then we've taught one college FPU and two uh adult FPU

classes. >> Wow. Thank you. >> That helped us stay accountable through the process. >> Yeah. Teaching teaching it you have to do it. >> Absolutely. Kind of kind of hypocritical if you don't.

>> They were cheerleaders. Our parents >> Our parents, >> our kids were >> they were part of the time. Yeah.

>> Absolutely. >> Good. All right. >> Well, very cool. Very cool. All right.

So, someone's listening and um they just

had to get a helock to cover an emergency at the house and they're pissed off and they're wondering if they

can really do it. Tell them what is the main thing that you learned in this process that you have to do if you want to get out of debt.

>> You know that just stop doing what you've been doing and start start today.

Um you know, you can you can talk about it. Yeah. And budget. Absolutely. Um that actually budget. Don't just uh talk

about a budget, actually do the budget.

>> But yeah, just start. I mean, really, that's the, you know, we talked about it and talked about it and and we decided it was just time to start. Um, we were done and >> sick and tired of being sick and tired. >> Amen. >> Absolutely. So, that's it. Just just go.

Just you can do it. It doesn't matter what where you're at. Just start.

>> All right. Very proud of you guys. Bring your daughters up and let's introduce them get their names and ages and let them since they had to participate in all the pain, they can participate in the dead free screen. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> All right. So, this is Addison. She's 15. We just had birthdays, so forgive me if I get these. This is Carson. She is nine. And this is Maddie. She is 17.

>> All right. Very cool. That's a beautiful family. Congratulations, you guys. Proud of you. Very well done. Paul and Britain, Maddie, Addison, and Carson, Savannah, Georgia. $127,000 paid off in 27 months, making 120 to

212. And it all begins with a total money makeover from Goodwill. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2

1. >> We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

>> ROAD TRIP TO NASHVILLE. WOOHOO.

>> Very exciting. You know, it's hard to get three teenage well two teenagers and pre-teen to get excited about doing anything with their parents. Those girls bought in. >> That's good. >> You could tell. I mean, they were really That wasn't like, oh, I got to have to do this. They roll. They got on the program and I love that.

>> Very very cool. Well, what happens is the family trees really change.

>> You could change it with the actual math because you have a huge amount amount of money later and they will have a huge amount of money later. But also it doesn't change unless the people in the family tree are also transformed. So it

all ends here. We're not doing this in this branch of the tree ever again.

Ever. Ever.

Never. It ends. When you do that, it

changes. It's a big deal, you guys. It's a big deal.

Heat. Heat.

Our

scripture of the day, John 15:1 and 2. I

am the true vine and my father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes so that

it will be even more fruitful. Tom Brady

said, "To be successful at anything, the truth is you don't have to be special.

You just have to be what most people aren't. Consistent, determined, and

willing to work for it." Amen.

>> Seventh round draft pick. Just a reminder, right? >> Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, definitely one of the goats for sure.

All right. And Sandra is in Houston.

Hey, Sandra. What's up?

>> Hey. Hey, Mr. Randy. Hi. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I'm just excited to actually talk to you since I've been watching for so long.

>> Thank you. >> Um, I have a a problem. Um, I'm a widow.

My husband passed away a year and a half ago >> and uh he was my main source of income

in our household. And I was working at a t-shirt assistant making like 24,000 a year and he was making like 80,000 and you know we were okay but I was in debt and I always wanted to get one of these plans that you have but even he was never on the same page with me so I couldn't do it alone and it's true which is say you have to be on board both of y'all so we never really did any kind of budgeting I handle all the bills but never had help mentally you know from

him just paying us here and uh so he passed away suddenly within 3 months. Uh he had colon cancer and uh and now he's gone and I'm left with all this. And now before he passed away, he did tell me and he apologized. He said, "I know you were right." He goes, "If you ever are in in a difficult situation, I want you to sell the house, but I know nothing about that. I we have a home. We've had it for 21 years. Um it's valued at 420,000 and my balance is 113,000."

Um, people tell me to go get a heliloc, but I just think that'll make me in a bigger hole. >> Um, my question to you is, do you think

it's wise to sell my house and use the

equity to cuz there's like I don't have a lot of credit card debt, but I do have like my lot next to his lot, which he just paid off cuz we had life insurance through his job. Um, but >> he he had life insurance through his job. How much life insurance did you get? >> It was 50,000.

>> 50,000. And you use that to pay off some debts.

>> This is lot 30,000. And yes, we we fell behind in our house because the 3 months that he was in the hospital, I didn't work. There was no money coming in. So I had to pay like almost 7,000 to um

mortgage. >> Yeah. To get caught back up. That was smart. >> Yeah. But then the homeowner association, I was behind on that. I'm still behind as we speak. And now I fell behind to get in my house. I have uh three adult kids, but one does not live.

my oldest two daughters that live with me, but they were a mess after their father passed away. Um, one's a full-time student about to graduate. The other one already graduated. She just started. >> What What do you make now, Sandra?

>> I still make 24,000. It's not >> that What do you do?

>> I'm a teacher assistant.

>> Um, and I >> How old How old are you?

>> I'm 60 years old.

>> 60 years old. Okay.

>> Mhm. And >> how much other debt other than the house do you have?

uh credit card like 10,000. The car we just purchased that I was my other car was the transition was done.

>> How much do you owe on the car?

>> About we got it $11,000 now it's 16,000.

How I don't know the interest and only made one payment on it and I just found out that when I made one payment 420 420

only $30 goes through the principal because of very >> that's not that's not the point. Okay. So you owe 10 and you owe 16 and what else do you owe?

>> Uh the credit cards. Oh, I said that.

Um, my lot is going to cost me like 28,000. >> Your lot my lot next to this. Yes.

>> You own a lot next door to the house.

>> No, no, no. A lot. I'm sorry. It's a cemetery lot. Grace, what do you call it? >> Yeah. We bought a double because I want to be very next to him. And Elm just took care of his. >> It's going to cost It's going to cost how much? >> 28,000. >> $28,000.

>> Yes. Yes, it's very expensive.

>> Yeah, that's a little ridiculous.

>> It is very expensive to die, you know.

I mean, and I just, you know, I I I want

to sell my house, but I don't I've never done that before. I don't know how it works. >> I have no clue.

>> Um my oldest daughter said, "Mom, I'm on board with you." She just got a job. She said, "I will do whatever you want. Let's sell the house and just start over." >> All right. So, you can start over, but you still have a $24,000 income. That's still going to be troublesome. So regardless of what we do, you need to work, we've got to do something to work on getting your income up.

>> I'm also a eBay reseller making like $2,500 a month.

>> Okay. >> That's another 30,000. >> Very good. >> So that means you have a $55,000 income.

>> Yeah. And then his social security um what do you call it spousal? I get like 20 2,300 a month.

>> Okay. That's another 30,000.

>> That's a little different than 24. So I'm not sure. Why can't you pay these bills if you got that much money coming in? >> Because we're I'm behind on my house. Uh the house payment is 1,500 and it's an adjustable rate mortgage. >> How far behind are you?

>> Uh two months. >> Okay. Cuz you have cuz you have 24 plus

60 coming in. You have $84,000 coming in

>> a year. You should be able to pay a $1,500 house payment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Where's the money been going? >> Well, I would I don't This crazy car I

bought is $420 a month.

>> $225. >> So, you paid the car instead of the house.

>> Uh, no, no, no. I just got the car. I just got it because I had another one I had paid cash for, but it was breaking apart >> and I had to get one and drive time just tricked me into getting this crazy car.

It's a 2014 Chevy. And you know, $420 a

month sounded good, but I just found out that it's just all interest, you know, and uh I wish I could pay it off sooner, but and I don't even know how my income every time we file for income tax, we always get a refund. So, this time I want to get whatever I get, I want to pay it towards the I guess the house, right?

>> I because I'm I'm a I've been here for 21 years and it's uh it's emotionally hard to give it up. Uh, I had a close friend of ours. She came to see as it is right now with nothing. They don't repair anything. We can they'll get we'll give you like 320,000 cash.

>> Mhm. No, >> but I don't want to go and put >> No, that's not that's not necessary. You know, if you're going to do it, get a real estate agent at Ramseyolutions.

It's Ramsey Trusted. Go to Ramseyolutions.com and put the house on the market for full retail. But I don't think you need to sell the house. I think you need to get in control. You may need to sell the car or even throw the keys back at them and let them take it back. Uh but the the house is not the

problem. You're out of control cuz you got $84,000 coming in between the

disability, the 24 his his social, the 24, and your eBay business. And so, hun, you have you have enough to pay these bills. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to put you on hold and we're going to put you with a Ramsay coach and have them come sit down with you and see if we can't get you straightened out because one of the things our book tells us is to take care of widows. So, we're going to go by the book, okay?

And um you hang on, Christian will pick up and we'll get you set up with that.

one thing, but 24 is not all I've got here. So, um there's a lot more and and

I I and I think it's just um you're discombobulated after the loss of your husband >> and it's hard to get organized and get focused. But I think if we didn't do anything but catch this house up, you catch it up pretty quick.

And if we didn't do anything, I mean, you stop the credit card, stop the car, and just let's get the house, let's save the house, and then let's keep the house current and keep lights on and food, and then we'll worry about what we're going to drive, and later on we'll worry about the credit cards, but let's get this stuff in the right order. You're paying the wrong things, if you have to choose. So, pay the house

and lights and water and food, and then we'll figure out the rest of it. But I think you got enough to pay it all. >> Yeah. You're just gonna have to get on a real tight budget and learn how to run every dollar and learn how to make this money behave.

But I think she can do it, Ken. >> Yeah. And I I think the encouragement is our coach is going to help you. Let's get her into every dollar.

Let's let's get her in there for a year because this is going to walk with you daily. It's like being on the air with Dave and one of the personalities. You have the means to do it. And I think that's what we want you to hear.

You got to come up with, okay, what are my next steps? You can do this. And I agree. I would not sell the house.

So, I think that's an unnecessary move. >> Yeah.

That's a small >> That's a really >> You have a very reasonable thing to go into old age with here and try to get that cleared up. >> Yeah. >> And the how that you got stung on the car and whoever's trying suggesting you buy the you sell your $4 >> $20,000 house for 300.

>> Well, that's not somebody that's your friend. >> We don't do that. So, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 278. Your Financial Chaos Ends Today | October 13, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUhPInpHHY8) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:55 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney, we're taking your calls at8825-55225.

Don't be shy. Give us a call. Get through our phone screener, Christian, and you will be on the airwaves helping other people who might be in a similar situation uh that you're in. So, we'd love to hear from you. Eden is going to kick us off in Kansas City. What's going on, Eden?

>> Howdy, y'all. How are you doing? >> Great. How are you? >> I'm doing all right. All right. So, um, my question is, how do I stop my fiance's mother from stealing her student loans? >> Stealing whose student loans?

>> My fiance's.

>> Okay. So, your future mother-in-law took

the money that your wife fiance took out

for student loans and is using it for nefarious purposes.

>> It it seems so. So, um, last week we

were trying to figure out, you know, hey, what are her student loans going to look like? She transferred from a university to a community college to finish her nursing um nursing program.

And her and we asked her mom because apparently her my fiance's student loans

went to her mom's checking account because her mom wanted to put it from her checking account into my fiance's savings. But here's the kicker. My fiance's savings, she's only a ser. her

mom is the custodial um the custodian and can only allow

with her mom's permission to see her own savings. >> What in the Britney Spears conservatorship is going on here, dude?

Why does she have control of a grown woman's finances?

>> Excellent question.

>> Here's to answer your question. You brother can do nothing.

>> I know. >> Okay. Nothing. Your your fiance does not

have a checking account. She she uses her mom's, >> right? And we we actually changed sorry

we actually changed her all of her funds that were in her old checking account to a new bank because her mom was actually taking little amounts of from her checking, >> right? >> And so we moved we moved we moved accounts. >> Well, hold on. It wasn't hers. It was her mom's, >> right? >> And so her mom was taking money out of the account that she set up with her name on it and just happened to attach her daughter to it.

>> Yeah. And >> I think the frustrating thing is, you know, it was her money. It's her money that's going in there. >> Um, >> she needs to stop putting money in there >> cuz now your fiance is on the hook for loans that she never saw the money for.

Like, did the money even go to the school to pay for the tuition?

>> We that's what we're trying to figure out. So, we know that when she was at um

university, she we know the we know the

amounts went there. Um and she here in

Missouri, we have a thing called A+ where you get your community college for free if as long as you do like, you know, community service hours, right?

And so that's why she transferred from university to use those and to get her um to finish her nursing program at um a

community college um because the same, you know, same title, right? So um we

we we don't know and that's why we were trying to look and every time we ask her mom like, "Hey, how much is there?" She kind of beats around the bush and then gets gets kind of annoyed with us.

>> All you have to all you have to do is um

two things. one, your fiance needs to put a freeze on her credit report so nobody will borrow any more money against her. Period.

>> Mhm. >> She also needs to pull her credit report and see what else cuz often this kind of behavior doesn't happen in a vacuum.

>> Right. >> So if mom >> and we did >> we did pull the credit report um and I actually have the breakdowns of I think there's four or five individual loans.

We just can't see if they were cash to um the university or community college or not. So you need to contact those institutions. >> Yeah. Get a balance and say, "Hey, was this do I have any past due bills?

Were all these things paid? I need receipts for all this." You basically need to be your own forens forensic accountant and go back through everything and figure out what was paid, what was owed, what are all the receipts, how much loans did we take out, and then there also needs to be this come to Jesus conversation with mom cuz she's essentially committed identity theft and fraud, >> right?

>> Well that's over being >> listen homie that ship has sailed.

>> If your mother-in-law or your future mother-in-law is is enough money to steal from her daughter Christmas is over brother at least for a while. So you have to let that ship go.

I'm also going to tell you this. You have to be your your fiance's chief supporter. Not you dragging her around

through a Law and Order episode.

>> You're using the words we a lot. And y'all aren't married yet. This is hers. And I know you want to be a supportive boyfriend. You're all in. We're going to build a future together and all that.

But you need to see her also take the

reigns of her own life.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And relationally speaking, if she won't back down to her mother, I mean, if she won't stand up to her mom who's stealing from her, if she won't take this initiative, you're going to deal with this for the rest of your life.

It'll happen with kids. It'll happen with house. It'll happen with everything. So, you all need to have that relationship conversation. >> It's a big old red flag.

>> Huge red flag.

>> I would not get married until we solve this, right? And there's a there's a forever solution to this, >> right? And that's, you know, that's why we're dealing with this now. First of all, we're getting married in 6 months.

Um, and we were like, okay, we know she graduates in December. Let's take care of this. And we have had the brief we we've had have a we have had a conversation like hey I can't you know I can't be there when you talk to your mom because I'm going to be on the bad side and it's going to be like why is your why is your f future husband you know

getting mad about money um and she she

needs to have that conversation with her mom and her dad right >> it's not really her dad but it's her mom and I so we've addressed that we just have to get to that conversation that next point. Yeah.

The other side of this is it may be that

the same lack inability to have this conversation, the same ability to quote unquote stand up on her own two feet.

Um, your fiance, it may be that mom has just been taking care of everything forever >> and this there's there's nothing shady going on. She just deposited the check in her account that she opened up for her daughter when she was 12 and she just kept the same account. And yeah, she buys coffee with it or whatever, but in her mind, she also puts money. Like, who who knows, >> right? >> So, right now, y'all have a story that you can make up on one side that you're dealing with the wicked wisd,

right? Either way, you need to go to the colleges and find out what your balance is. says that should be a two second either look into a portal or a two second phone call. What's my balance?

How much I overtuition? >> And then find out how much has been borrowed.

>> If there's a gap there, then mom needs to come up with that gap or y'all going to either have to decide we're going to pay it or we're going to have to um go contact the the non-emergency line with our local sheriff because my mom stole thousands of dollars from me. >> I mean, I don't want to make it so simple, but I don't want the emotion to get such a big deal like we got to do, >> man.

>> But but listen, Christmas and Thanksgiving are different for forever.

>> Okay? >> Get that that ship has sailed.

>> All right? >> There's a spectrum here from control freak to criminal. And so your job is just to be a support for her, help her research this, but she needs to take the reigns. She needs to regain control of whatever was lost in her life and have the hard conversations with mom. and you just stepping in the middle of that to be the hero is is not going to play out long term. >> And two other things, don't ever, this is going to sound crazy, don't talk bad about her mom. Talk good about her.

Support her. And the second thing is, man, if she won't have a hard conversation with her mom now, I promise you, she's not going to have hard conversations when the stakes get higher after y'all are married.

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Kevin is up next in Minneapolis. What's going on, Kevin? How can we help today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Um, so my wife and I are currently in the market for a new vehicle and we have enough cash saved up to be able to pay for it in full. Um, but my question is

why would we if if we could just save on or hang on to the money that we have in our money market account and earn more

than what the APR is on the loan.

>> What's your APR on the loan?

>> So, I see my for my research I see anywhere between 3 and 4%.

>> Um, >> what's your net worth? >> New car.

So, our our net worth right now is probably about 700, but um 700,000, but

that includes the the mortgage on our on our house, too. >> What do you mean includes?

>> So, if you did a net worth statement, your assets minus liabilities, >> where would that put you?

>> 700,000. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh 200,000.

>> Awesome. >> How much is this car going to cost?

So, our budget, we're we have a budget of about 40,000. So, anywhere between probably 30 and 40.

>> And you're you're planning on buying brand new?

>> No, I'm I'm more of a certified pre-owned type of guy.

>> CPO.

>> Okay. >> Me, too, dude. Well done. >> What kind of car is this?

>> Um, just a a bigger like a Chevy Tahoe or similar car just for a growing

family. >> Cool. Do you guys have any other debt?

>> No other debt besides the mortgage.

>> Nice. And how much money in savings total?

>> Total including that vehicle fund is is probably 75,000.

>> Way to go. So you still have your 35.

Let's say you did pay cash for this. You still have 35 left over.

>> Yep. And that includes that's our emergency fund mostly and then kind of operating accounts for the house and

just cash and um paying off credit cards

and stuff like that. >> Yeah, man. You're you guys have done such a good job. What has driven you to go like I might do the financing on this, might take out the loan because it sounds like you're a Ramsey guy otherwise or maybe you just heard about this. I don't know. I that's why that's why I'm calling in is because I see some benefit in the long term or at least over the life of the loan. Um you know holding on to a four and a half 5% savings account and also having the cash

available if if absolutely needed. Um,

and I know over the life of a a car loan, it's only a couple hundred bucks, maybe a couple thousand bucks, but um,

it is something, you know, it's a stepping stone to being able to say that

I'm a millionaire or debtree eventually, a couple bucks here and there. >> Well, I'll tell you, the way John Deloney and I and our families, the way we just live our lives is we just have this value of like we don't want to owe people anything. And you might make a spread. I think your numbers were a little bit off here.

I don't think you're going to make 5% in a savings account and I think your used car loan is going to cost you more than that over the life of the loan. And I think they'll they'll hose you in a thousand other ways at the dealership when they find out you're financing.

And then the other part is you can't be underwater on a car that you paid cash for. And I cannot tell you how many people have called into the show this week who are five grand, 10 grand, 15 grand underwater on a car um that has a loan on it. And so that's the other part. If you needed to sell it for whatever reason, wanted to sell it, you might be 10 grand in the hole come two years from now.

>> Sure. >> The um >> is there value in just taking the cash to the to the sales guy and getting a discount that way, >> bro?

>> Yeah. Well, it works two ways. So, there's times they'll say, "Hey, you've got cash. I, the sales guy, get a bonus

if of 500 bucks or whatever if you will finance it. Um, can you help me out?" Like, I've literally had that happen before. And then the other day, I took money. This is not the other day, but maybe a few months ago, I took cash and I said, "This is all I have." And

eventually, I mean, they somebody in the in the dealership knew who I was eventually and they're like, "Oh, that's the guy works. He's on the Ramsey show." But they he he laughed and he goes, "You're not going to finance us, are you?" And I smiled and I go, "No." And he goes, "I didn't think so." I ended up getting a killer deal because it was the end of the month and he got a sale that day and they had a car on the lot that

um they wanted to just get off the lot.

So yeah, I ended up getting a screaming deal on it. Um I I want to further what

George said though and I think this gets left out of the the calculation and um

the new ROI for me that I am pretty um

pretty fanatical about is not the

spread.

the the ROI that I look for with my wife on purchases now is peace.

And my my the guy who does banking for

me, my Smart Investor Pro, they all know

that I'll give up 2% on a spread here and there or a potential spread or maybe I can put this in this account and then move it to that account, but then I can I'll give that up just to put my head on my pillow at night and fall asleep.

And not playing those games has I can't tell you, dude. It just gives me so much other like in a in a world of finite

energy, kids, wife, government shutting down, pets heads falling off, all the stuff. It just gives me one big thing I don't got to think about. That's my car.

I own it. Nobody can take it from me.

And like George said, if I have to sell it, go put on the market for 25 grand.

Take a $10,000 bath on it, but it's your 25 grand. You just get it back. You don't have to worry about anything. You know what I'm saying? So that that to me is the calculation I think gets left out a lot from the arbitrage game. And if

you if you came and said, "Hey, I can make 11% in three years on this and the

loan um is 3%."

Now we're talking real dollars and I I

still am not going to ever borrow money.

But I would shake your hand and go, "If that's what you want to do, well played, man." Like it's not how me in my house are going to do it, but I get that.

You're talking about a point or two points maybe, right? And dude, I I'm just telling >> and that's that's where I'm on the fence too is, you know, the money market is not necessarily guaranteed either. And I >> No, I mean rates have been going down historically. We're we're at about 3 and a half% on any given high yield savings account, money market account.

>> And so I don't I think used car rates are also going to be higher than a new car rate on that loan. So I' you'd be hard unless you have like an 850 credit score and you're just playing or something. Yeah. you're not going to get the 1% car loan and even then it's just like what are we doing?

I think we're just playing the wrong game. Um you got better you got bigger fish to fry on your wealth building journey than trying to like you know finesse the system for a percent on a car loan. >> Yeah. I there's also another um and we're kind of using you as a as a teaching tool.

There's also this idea that I can have that car I can sign a promisary note and I get to keep my money.

a false way to look at it because the moment you sign that promisary note, that's technically their money. They're just going going to let you pay them extra for you keeping it in your account for a long time, but you're still going to owe them, especially with a car that's going to go down in value every day you drive it. And so I think it's just shifting. The moment you sign that promisary note, that money in your account is theirs.

You can hold it and you can pay them handsomely for the privilege of holding it, but it's still yours.

>> What do you mean?

>> Yeah. They're going to sue you for the difference of >> the car itself. >> They'll sue you for the difference of what they value it at >> in the future. >> Yeah.

So if that car drops down, let's say there's a huge default that goes through the country and we just got a note this morning that defaults are rising on car purchases across the country >> and then reposs are going up. reposs are going up and suddenly they say, "You know what? That car is worth 25 grand." And so we're going to sue you for $15,000. >> What they do is they'll sell it at auction for whatever they can get for it.

And then they'll come after you for the difference. >> And so you lose the car and you still got to write them a check.

You make 200 grand. Is this household income? Are you both working right now?

>> Yep. >> Okay. Is there a future where your spouse might not work or one of you chooses to not work or stay home?

>> I don't think so. Maybe in my in my wife's mind, maybe. Perfect world, but >> Okay, cool. >> Not in the near future. >> I just I like to make 10-year decisions.

And so, it made it a lot easier when my wife decided to stay home. We didn't go, well, we got the car payments. Our expenses are just high. If we cut your income out, it's going to make things tight.

And so, to live with as much margin as possible is always going to be best. And you'll stack up the cash for whatever other reason. You did a great job saving up this money. So, I wouldn't go backwards now for the idea of a potential spread.

>> Yeah. And thank you for letting us use your situation to teach. Most people aren't in your financial situation. You're doing a great job.

I, bro, I just take a check down there and say, "I want that car for this check.

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Jonathan is in Montana. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> So, I had a previous marriage that um in

the court case, I requested my business documents. She never returned them. Long

story short, um, for the two years we

owed 23,966.

In the court documents, she agreed to pay her half of it. And

still to date, which we're going on almost 3 years, she has not paid her half of it. And I'm finally at a point in my life where I have a chance to

pay off a bunch of debt. um my fiance

who is very soon to be my

wife. I would like your guys' advice on

whether

if I marry her um if I should just pay the IRS off and deal with a couple of these other debts and just move forward with my life.

>> So it's it's so she owes about um 12 grand 115 something like that.

Yeah, something like that. Um, she filed for an innocent spouse relief and they denied it due to the fact that she knew full well what she was signing.

>> So, are you going to take her back to court and get the money?

>> Um, that's what I was asking is, is it

something where I should just let that one loom or should I just pay the IRS

off so they're not breathing down my neck? And you tell us.

>> You tell us which one sounds more fun.

Uh, taking her back to court actually sounds a little entertaining considering

how the judge left on my side.

Absolutely.

>> So, you'd have to like file a motion for contempt, request a money judgement, and get the judge to force her to pay essentially. >> Yes, 100%. >> And that could take how long? Another year. >> Oh, at least.

>> Your new wife is going to be like, "You're going to court to see your ex again? Cool. Have fun. No, she's she's

fully on board either way. She's actually the reason I got turned on to you guys and how I have made this huge

transformation in my life. On a side

note, I mean, I before I met her, I was

well into $120,000 in debt. And to date

today, I've paid off 77,362.

>> Dang. Way to go. Congrats. Do you do you

have the money to just pay it off today?

>> Um I I've been working my tail off and

as soon as I get these next couple checks from these next couple jobs, absolutely. I should have enough to pay off the IRS and hopefully everything else that I owe to anyone.

>> What would it cost you um

to hire an attorney to go back to court?

Well, my last experience cost me $45,000. So, I'd hope it'd be less than that, but just a rough.

>> I'd hope so, too, considering there's 12 grand on the line. >> So, let's pretend you get it. It's going to cost you five. Someone's going to charge you a $5,000 retainer. They'll file the paperwork and they'll show up on one day of court with you. Okay.

>> Yep. >> So, the question ask, and I I have I'm just made that number up. It might be double that. It might be a thousand bucks. Who knows? Um,

is $5,000 worth it?

Or can you write the check and have this woman out of your life forever and move on with your life?

>> Um, yes to an extent. I mean, granted, that

would net me about seven if she actually

is paying it. >> Oh, sure. No, I'm saying I'm saying five from the um 5,000 from the the lawyer

fees. Here's here's what I'm hearing in my in my head is I'm hearing a conflict

between peace and justice or peace and

ego. And ego and justice can be wrapped up together a lot. The right thing to do is for her to pay her her her half. No question. The judge hit the gavl, said she owes this.

>> Yep. >> And she hasn't. So, it's still on your credit. the IRS is gonna come get your stuff and you have a legal document saying we can unwind all this and we can go through court and get all the friends blah blah. We can do all that. You're right.

>> Yeah. >> I just want you to do the calculation on what peace would cost you.

>> That's where both of us are on it. say

and I have just both agreed that is that

worth my big I think my big question for you guys and you may not be able to answer the question is she owns her

house and me marrying her and still owing the IRS

does that open her up to any

chance of them coming after the house because ultimately that's my goal is to get myself out of debt, pay the rest of her house off to where they can ever.

>> No, I don't think they're coming after your house. I mean, worst case, there could be like a wage garnishment situation. Um, again, I'm not an attorney. I don't know the state laws.

And so, I would at least get in touch with an attorney. It sounds like you want some justice and closure and you want some uh her to pay. Now, what I

might do if I'm in your shoes, I might just go ahead and pay it and be done with it. Get the IRS off my back and then still go to court and get her to pay and as almost like a form of reimbursement. That's what I would do >> because then at least it's off your record. We're done with the IRS. We're moving forward with our new life and wife and we're still trying to get that closure and justice.

>> Okay, I appreciate that advice. Um, I

don't know how much more time we have, but I also had a couple on my big list

of all the debts to pay off. I had one

creditor that refused to talk to me cuz I disputed the charge cuz they couldn't

tell me where the charge came from.

And that one has since gone to court and

of course they got a judgment against me. Nothing I could do about it.

>> How much >> is there a way I can deal with that?

>> How much?

>> Uh $1,268.

>> And was it your debt?

I honestly don't know. During my last um

marriage, I was basically forced out of my house and she had access and was an a

legal signer on all of my cards.

>> I mean, legally, they have to validate the debt. And so, if they can't do that, they'll it'll get tossed out.

>> But if it's a if it's a love seat that she purchased, you're not going to get that money back.

All they all they can send me and to date all they have sent me is an invoice

for the debt not saying when or where it was spent. There's nothing to actually really validate it.

>> Again, >> it's not going to hold up in court if they can't validate it. And so it's going to get thrown out. If you want to continue down, you're already going to be in court. It sounds like might as well just hang out there. Clear some more debts while you're at it. What other debts do you have?

>> Um the same creditor company. I have one for 9,866, which as soon as I get paid for this next big job, that one is going away.

Um, >> what if you what if you called that same creditor and said, "I'm going to send you 10,500 bucks. Can we just be done with all of this?" >> Um, that would be ideal.

>> Call them and tell them that I'm going to clear this entire debt. You still pay for 10 grand and you're going to mark this paid in full.

>> Okay. Do you think there's any chance with them having a already one judgment

against me on it? Um, >> of course there's always a chance. >> Negotiate it. >> Of course. There's always a chance. But if you got $10,000 and you're about to write him a check, my gut tells me they might take that or they might think, "Oh, he's got more money." Or what? Who knows? Here's what the calculation I want you to do. You're so close to being free. Like you're unhooking these chains from you and now you're at the very end and you're starting to count the chain links and you're forgetting the big picture.

>> Yeah. >> I I I I can be if somebody's looking at

the way I live my life, they could say, "That dude's a sucker." And they'd be right. There's things I would just walk away from because I want peace.

>> Right. >> Right. You have to ask yourself, what is that line for you? If I'm about to get two checks for 35,000 bucks and it's going to clear every debt I have, including this ex-wife who's I'm still waking up thinking about every day of my life, I'm gonna write that check and

brush my shoulders off and go on about my life. But that's but again, that's just me. And I have other friends that would fight. They would spend 50 grand to get her to pay her 11. You just have to do that calculation in your head.

Yeah, that's the situation I don't want to be in is where I'm just spending more money just to have to see her in court again. And I I I couldn't agree more

whole wholeheartedly with you on that.

>> Me and my house, we try to solve for peace, bro. >> I'd be done with it, man. You're about to bail yourself out of jail. I wouldn't be trying to get a shorter sentence on good behavior here playing this game.

Just be done.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Aubrey is in Dallas, Texas up next.

What's going on, Aubrey?

>> Hey guys. Um I have a quick question. I

am I started on October 1st with you guys. I've done my baby step one. Got that out of the way. So I'm starting baby step two. >> Awesome. >> Um and as I as I was reading um the Total Money Makeover. I'm sorry, I'm nervous. I'm shaking. Wow. >> Hey, real quick. Aubrey, can I tell you something? We can Can I tell you something cool? >> I'm I'm really grateful that you're in our gang now.

>> I was looking at the calendar. I was like, we're nine days in and Aubrey is like, she's got Baby Step One done. She's calling the show. Like, you're serious, >> dude. Congratulations. >> I am. I've read The Total Money Makeover and now I'm going with a highlighter and now I'm going back into it and I'm just reading the chapter that I'm in and I've already gotten a side gig. What what brought you here? Like what was going on in your life that you just said enough is enough. October one, I'm out.

>> Um, my 20-y year marriage ended

>> and I have three kids and I want I sat

them down cuz they're older. They're 19 and 16. Twins are 19 and my youngest is 16. And I sat them down and I said, "I want to do better for you guys." So, um I'm sorry I'm going to cry.

So, I sat them down, made them watch the baby steps, um, intro thing with me and made them be on board with me and hold me accountable and made them understand why I was getting a side gig and why I wasn't going to be around as much.

>> All right, so listen, I this is not why you called, but I I I got to say this.

Um, I grew up in Houston where there was a lot of hurricanes and tornadoes. And a lot of times when the lights would be out for two or three days and when the lights were out after a storm came through in the middle of the night, there was always somebody on the street with a flashlight outside and everybody walked towards that person.

>> And right now you're that for your kids.

>> That's what I want to be. I I'm going to get the homeschool foundation thing and no going to sit down and go through that. you are. The fact that you sat down with your kids in the dust and ash after a 20-year marriage ended and you said, "Hey, I'm going to own my part of this.

Here's what I'm going to do moving forward and this is scary and I'm crying." You gave them a gift of seeing you grieve. You gave them a gift of of saying, "Here's what I'm going to do next." You're doing everything right. I want to tell you, I'm proud of you. That's awesome.

>> Thank you. Thank you. has nothing to do with why you called, but I want you to know you're holding a flashlight out in the dark and your kids can see it, and that's a gift right now. Good on you, and we're glad you're with us.

>> Thank you. >> Me, too. >> All right, so what's your question? >> Um, so my question is, when I was reading um the debt snowball portion of the total money makeover, there was one caveat to listing your debts from smallest to largest, and that's when they're super close in number.

And then there was like a little subject in there about interest rates and I am not financially savvy. So I needed help cuz they're super close in number like 50 to 100 bucks close in number for three of them that have all three different interest rates and payments.

>> Okay. Well, I'm I I'll tell you what I'm a fan of. Whatever one has the biggest payment you're that you're going to free up, I would just tackle that one first.

>> Okay. Because if it's 500 bucks for that payment versus 700, well, I'd rather free up a $700 $700 payment to attack the next debt with.

>> Okay. So, it doesn't really matter about the interest rate go by that the way you're tackling this got that much more to the next one. It shouldn't take long in between all >> they're going to be gone so fast. >> Yeah, we're talking about dollars and cents on the on the interest savings.

And we found that, you know, that's the avalanche method is focusing on highest interest first. And almost no one actually does it cuz you have to be a super math nerd, which in that case, you probably didn't go into crippling debt.

So >> the the snowball method is it, you know, tackles the psychology, gives you momentum. So how much debt do you have total?

>> Oh god. Without the house or with the house? >> Without the house. Leave that one aside.

>> Without the h Yeah, without the house, it's about 80 grand.

>> Okay. And what do you make? I make um

with bonuses it's like 94 grand a year and then I just got my 1099 side gig that starts in November. That will bring me starting out that will bring me in four only 400 a month. That's only one patient from a nurse and they're going to give me more. >> Awesome. That's a great side gig. Okay.

So, we're going to call it 100 grand, right? >> Okay. >> Have you done an every dollar budget before?

>> I have. I really I got the premium so I'm I've got that going. Did you pay for it? >> I'm tracking my transaction. I did.

>> We're going to refund you.

>> We got you. >> Oh, well. Okay. >> Will you put it toward your debt if we give you the money back?

>> Yes. And that's why I'm I'm I'm emptying out a storage unit, too. Bringing that back to my garage so I can have that money back to throw it at my debt. Like, I'm I'm seriously cutting the budget like crazy. >> We're so proud. Here's why I mentioned that budget. That budget's going to show you how much margin you have, right? So, how much do you have right now to throw at each debt every month or, you know, your debt snowball?

So, I'm still trying to collect all the data on that with the tracking my transaction so I can be actually precise with how much I spend for like groceries and such like that. Right now, I'm throwing about 800 more. I think there's

more room in there, but I'm just I'm still trying to track every transaction so that I know where to cut the most.

>> It'll it'll take you about 3 months to to level on that. So, don't freak out, okay? They'll take you till about January before you fully or got this thing cooking where you know about what the the groceries are going to be yada yada. So you're good.

>> Right. Right. Right. So that's that's what that's why I did the premium when I got it.

So I was like I need to know exactly especially gas, all that jazz and then and then just start chunking stuff out. All of my side gig is going to go straight to >> Perfect. >> Straight to the debt.

>> Yeah. >> Can you afford this house?

>> No. No, but I've got to get the divorce.

It's not finalized. The divorce has to be finalized before I can >> sell it.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know how that's going to shake down? Are you going to have any alimony

or child support or you know, are you guys going to split the house?

>> No. Child support and then um

honestly I we had the house for sale. It was on the market for 9 months. Didn't get a single bite. Um but now interest rates apparently are going down.

So there's been increased interest, but he's not signing anything right now. And so we're kind and we had to slow down because the kids were taking it really hard. It was too much too fast. So I had to slow that down for my kids mental well-being.

That means more to me. I will sacrifice for my kids mental wellbeing. >> I know. Don't I know.

But it feels like what feels like mental well-being can be disrupted on the other side by drawing this out, >> right? >> It's almost like pulling a band-aid off a toddler, right? It hurts and so you stop and it hurts so you stop. man.

Like, there's just going to be an inherent tension in your house.

>> There is there is some there's some powerful catharsis about just getting this thing over with, >> right? >> So, I don't know. I don't know what slow it down means, but if you have an attorney, I would hire a bulldog and say either he won't sign it or we're going to run this through the court and I want to be in court by this date. um and have the judge know that he won't he wouldn't even sign anything.

He wouldn't play ball. He's just going to try to drag this out. And um yeah, >> I've seen some judges be really compassionate for jerks who who blow people's lives up and then are like, "I'm not going to do nothing." That mean the judge can get pretty costic there. So, I would push that.

He was pausing it. Well, I'm going to say that because I'm I I never put myself first. That's that's a nurse's emmo right there. So, I'm going to he's not he's not a I wouldn't have stayed with him for 20 years if he was a jerk, to be honest.

It's it he said he needed advice before he agreed to the terms of walking away from the house even though he's already moved out, not paying for the house. So, >> yeah, >> it it's one of those symptoms, but it's I I can't really take an offer with his name still on the house without an agreement saying how we're going to split those proceeds, if we're going to split those proceeds, etc. That's kind of where the limbo I'm at with the house on the market.

>> I'm trying, but I also can't afford a lawyer at all. I I would put that as I

would put that as a priority.

>> Yeah. The house is looming in your life and it's a big question mark and I think once that's solved, we'll know how to move forward. >> Is there any equity in the house?

>> Uh there's about 60 grand of equity in the house. >> Okay. You may be able to maybe not, but you may be able to get an attorney who will go through this process with you with a with a guarantee that when the house sells, they'll get their percentage off the off the sale of the house. >> That's true. I didn't think about that. >> It'd be worth having that conversation with somebody. Do >> you have a good real estate pro on this?

I do. It's a It's a local uh local group, but they're they're big in our church. They're big in our band program, big in the community. So, they're they're super awesome.

>> All right. Well, wishing you the best, Aubrey, through this just awful, traumatic situation, and I'm inspired by your attitude towards it all. I'm going to send you building a non- anxious life, my book. I want you to read it, and I want you to use this as your road map for you and your kids moving forward.

>> Hang on the line.

[Music]

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney.

open phones at88255225.

Allison is in Oklahoma up next. What's going on Allison, how can we help?

>> Yes. Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. >> You got it. What's up?

>> Well, hey, um anyway, my my husband Michael and I um he's sitting next to me. He's about to take over for the financial portion. He wanted me to kind of communicate our backstory.

>> You're the opening act. You go first and see if they're nice and then I'll fill in. >> Right. >> Well played, Michael. Well played.

>> I'm a I'm a speech therapist and he's the he's the eye doctor. So we we each have our own strengths here.

>> Well played. Are y'all in Oklahoma City?

>> Uh we are near OK Oklahoma City. Yes.

Just about 45 minutes.

>> Okay. Will you do whatever magic you need to do and just make sure you beat Texas this weekend, please?

>> Right. My husband would love that. He went to undergrad there. Okay, that's I just I just need y'all before we talk, I just need you to make that happen. All right, go ahead with your question.

>> Okay. Well, hey, so the reason we're calling is our family of now five. We just gave birth to our third baby a few months ago. Um to really uh stir up the

joyful chaos a little bit more. Um yeah, so we're currently in the most rigorous, exhausting, yet life-changing seasons of our lives. Um we're we're small business. Um we're small business owners of a new optometry practice that we opened here in our small town.

Um my husband is the eye doctor of the practice and then we opened up the doors a few months ago. Um it's a really good location. Uh we we really haven't even had to do much advertising since it's right here at the heart of this small town that um is underserved with optometry. So it's working out in that way.

husband is working with his father for the first five years out of school. Um, his dad's 75 and just retired this year.

So, um, anyway, we had the opportunity

to potentially take over that practice.

However, uh, our family was not exactly fruitful spiritually in that town. And, um, financially we were doing okay, but the Lord was calling us to do something that didn't really make sense really to anybody else. um if that makes sense. We uh um it kind of almost looked like to a

lot of people were missing out on an easy opportunity to take over an already established uh business.

>> So you didn't take over. You start this new one. >> That's right. We >> And that's going well.

>> It's going well. Um >> so what's your question?

>> Well, so essentially um we're only able

to be open here a couple days a week until we get more patients in the door.

Um, and right now he's working for um an

eye doctor three and a half days a week in a different town just to to make ends meet. You know, we've got to keep the mortgage um paid each month at our house and keep the lights on. >> And you're working in this business or are you at home with the kids?

>> Uh so Fridays and Saturdays um our our

grandparents have been a saving grace for us. We al they al alternate helping out with the kids. So yeah, I I work full-time with my husband on Fridays and Saturdays um to get everybody in and out the door uh with the patients. And so >> Okay. And what are you guys paying yourselves? How much do you make?

>> Well, so that was kind of our question.

We're not paying ourselves anything yet.

And so that that's kind of where >> how are you paying your bills, >> right? So >> his three days a week.

>> Yeah. So three and a half days a week we're paying our he has the opportunity to make commission with his other do eye doctor. So, he's basically still making a 5day salary.

>> Uh, it's it's very it's trying on him.

He sees about triple the amount of patients that he normally would.

>> Sure. >> Uh, but some of that is some of that is starting a new business in a town, small town from scratch. How much did y'all get underwater? How much did you borrow to start this practice?

>> Uh, $200,000.

>> Okay. Are y'all Do you all make enough money to to pay that down?

Uh well, so the loan that we took out,

it only has 2% interest rate. It's through um his dad actually, and he's allowed us to put that on hold um for a

little while. Yeah. Yeah. So, um let me

My husband wants to do the financial portion. So, anyway, I appreciate y'all.

Here he is. >> You got it. What's up, Michael?

>> Is he with us? Is he in the room?

Well, we tried. That was fun. While we lasted, >> did you leave us?

Dude, >> you left us hanging. >> We're still here.

>> Thank you so much. >> One second. >> I was waiting for like some hold music or something. That would have been nice. >> You should have started singing, George.

>> That would have been nice. >> Michael, you there? Put the spreadsheet down, brother. >> Hi. Sorry. No, I was uh trying to take a phone call. A patient was calling us. >> No, you're good. Patients are more important than radio. >> Get to the root of the question here because I still haven't heard one yet.

Okay. Um, so

one thing that I would say for business-wise, I know what the number is

to keep lights on and essentially continue to um stay afloat. Um, it's

right around um $9,400 a month. And so

one question I would have for for business-wise, what how many months would need to be

put aside before because right now we're not paying I'm not paying my wife. I'm not paying myself any salary.

>> And you're not paying the loan. You're not paying the payment on the loan, the 200 grand.

>> Um that one's paused, but I'm still paying the mortgage and the equipment loan that I have. >> Okay. That's all 9,400 for all in right now. And that's not covering anybody's actual salary. Correct. That's just >> that's as cheap as this business is going to run at this point.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And what is it bringing in every month? >> Uh we just started having more patients.

>> Give me a number >> over the last two weeks. Um >> is it going to be 10 grand this month or 20? >> This month it will probably it won't be 20. It would probably be around breaking even around 10. >> Okay. Well, the good news is you don't have to worry about paying yourself cuz you can. So, if that's the question, that was an easy math problem to solve.

Ideally, you cover all of your operating costs, your taxes, federal and state, self-employment, and you have a little bit to throw into growth and self, you know, investment buffer as kind of retained earnings, and you're paying yourselves a decent salary right now.

That's obviously not in the cards. >> A dream retained earnings is 25%, but that's really hard to come by.

>> Okay. If you can have like three to six months of your expenses, you got 30, 40, 50 grand in there, that would be a good starting point >> to, but then before you really start looking at salary and all that.

>> Well, I mean, you guys need enough to to cover your bills. >> You're not eating and service your debts. Do you have any other debt outside of the 200?

>> So, that's the thing. Like, I work for an optometrist outside of me starting my business to pay my like personal bills and to live and to put food on my table.

This is just so until I get full-time

and then it'll be >> How long is that going to change? >> Change. >> Um, so what I'm looking at is if I can be full-time, I would start adding essentially a day here and there whenever I start booking out two to three weeks uh in advance.

>> Do you have any sort of Here here's the thing. You probably jumped off the dock before the boat got in and now you're treading water cuz you got five kids.

You got a newborn. You got six days a week. You got a business that and and your Thanksgiving is going to be awkward this year cuz you owe your old you owe your old man whose practice you didn't want to take on 200 grand. It like there's just a lot going on here.

>> Mhm. >> And so you can't do this forever is what I'm saying. But you're here. You've already borrowed all this money. You've already launched it. I would George tell me I would get really aggressive about marketing, finding people.

>> Get the boat closer to the dock here. And this business needs to be making 20, 30 grand a month just to pay yourselves something. >> Yeah. >> And so you're going to need to figure that out.

And if this doesn't work 6 months, a year from now, we got to close up shop and go, "This experiment didn't work, and I just got to work for someone else right now until we're in a better financial position." >> It may be that wife is also at home doing crazy marketing towards this thing.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music]

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>> Today's question is from Meredith in Oregon. Meredith writes, "I'm a divorced mom of three boys who are 24, 22, and

19. I earn about 48,000 bucks a year. My

sons went into the workforce right after high school, and the two youngest still live with me, the 22-year-old and the 19-year-old. While they contribute to the household bills occasionally, they struggle to keep up. When they can't, the responsibility falls back on me.

I've talked with him about paying me a set amount each month that I can count on rather than paying individual bills, but they say they don't make enough money to do so. I know they do, but they

have other money priorities. Thankfully, our home is paid off. How do I communicate to them that I need help financially? I'm not looking to push my kids out, but how do I b balance supporting them while also making sure I don't sink under the weight of all that financial responsibility?

Yikes.

Um,

here's the here's the truth. The reality that is hard to hear, but this is just the truth. Um,

you're keeping your boys around because you want them around and you need them

around financially. What does that mean?

That means they're not getting a chance to go carry the weight of adult

responsibility, of bills, of well, I

just don't have it this month. That doesn't work like that if you have your own apartment because they kick you out of your apartment. They know you're not going to kick them out. They know that.

And so I'm going to quote my friend Henry Cloud who says, "The greatest gift these boys could get is some problems.

They have to understand the weight of the squat bar that is real life. Light bills, water bills, rent, or you don't live here." The second big challenge here, George, is she doesn't have enough money to keep this place.

>> Yeah. It's not to teach them a lesson.

It's out of necessity. >> Yeah. You don't have enough money. >> Both ends. >> So, the second biggest issue here is 48

grand a year isn't cutting it. So, I know your house is paid off and I would do anything I could to keep that house if it's paid off, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You can't afford it. You have a math problem. And so either you have to sell

this house and buy something much much much smaller or rent for a season or you're going to have to find um a job making more than $48,000 a year.

Otherwise, your boys are going to find themselves in this perpetual dance of I

can't leave because otherwise mom's going to get evicted and that's a lot of pressure on them or they're not allowed to leave or what I think is happening is they don't have to leave. And if they don't have to do anything, they're going to act like kids and not do anything, right? And so it's it's hard conversation season here both for them

and I would suggest letting them not letting them telling them they got to leave or they got six months and then you dealing with the reality that my $48,000 a year I can't afford my life

that I'm trying to live right now on the money that I make. >> Yeah. If you need them as renters and you need that income, it just points to a bigger problem that is not the children's fault. >> Correct.

>> So there are two problems here. One, the children need to understand you got to pay your bills in real life. That means the priorities. >> You're getting evicted.

You're >> whether it's with her or with someone else or with an apartment complex, the four walls come first. You got to cover that those as your priorities. Now, at 19 and 22, I had other money priorities, too. Like doing anything other than paying bills.

>> Exactly.

>> But at 19, 20, and 22, I had my own

place. uh at college and then after college, they they didn't care like what

my other quoteunquote money priorities were. They wanted their rent. So, I had to pay that rent or I couldn't live there, right? And they have to learn that responsibility now.

Otherwise, they're going to be the 42 year olds in the basement PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. MOM, MAKE ME SOME MEATLOAF. RIGHT. It's going to be them.

>> Yep. >> And it's it's a hard it's a hard truth to to wrap your head around. And Meredith, let's be honest, underneath all of this is if all three of those boys moved out to start their life, that house would be really quiet and it's lonely and >> and you couldn't afford it on top of >> you can't afford it. So, there's a lot of hard truths staring you in the face that nobody in that house wants to deal with.

That's honestly the only path forward. And I'm going to tell you right now, there's no comfortable way to do all of this.

The uncomfortable conversation will never go away. It's just going to get amplified. As the old saying goes, conflict deferred is conflict amplified.

There's going to come a day when these three boys go get married and they leave you overnight and you can't afford this place or they never leave and you still

kind of different problems, right?

>> So, the conversations are common. I'd rather them be on your terms and directed and intentional by you.

>> I I And again, George, this one I I know I come from a different generation. I sound like I'm an old man. I went uphill both both ways to school in the snow. I get that. I can't wrap my head around

>> not helping mom out if she needs it or what? >> I can't wrap my head around being 24 and still just crashing. I can't wrap my head around, yeah, watching my mom

suffer and I'm living there and be like, "No, dude. I don't have I don't have the money." And her knowing you did, but you

chose to go out with your buddies or you chose to get a fancier new cell phone or whatever. I just can't I can't wrap my head around any of this. And so, it's hard for me to put myself there. But I do regularly talk to the boys whose moms didn't let them grow up and I talk to the moms who have to sell the house that they didn't want to sell.

And it's never a fun conversation. >> I just wonder maybe she hasn't had an honest enough conversation about where she's at financially of like listen, I'm not doing this to teach you a lesson at this point. I'm doing this cuz mom's struggling right now >> and I I need everyone to pitch in to cover the bills to keep food on the table, keep the lights on.

>> Well, I'm going to have to go find other renters who will help me pay my bills because I can't afford it. >> That's tough all around. So, sorry, Meredith. All right, let's get to Amanda in Arkansas. What's going on, Amanda?

>> Hi. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, loud and clear.

>> Hi. So, um, just quick background, my

husband's a teacher, bus driver, and I'm

a disabled vet, stay-at-home mom, and we have six kids. Our kids are getting older, 15 and a half, uh, being our oldest. U, we're debtree beside the mortgage. We invest, we add to their

college funds. Um, my question really is, is it a good idea to sell our home for a lesser mortgage so we can pay it off faster and we could invest more? We could help more with the college funds and all the things that older kids are

needing and starting and you know, we're starting to see the the costs of what it is to have older kids.

>> Wow, that's a big decision.

I mean, you're talking about eight people. How much smaller of a house can you can you'll move into?

Oh, well, so we do love our house. I do think we could get something that's less and still be happy. Um, our house, uh,

we owe like 130,000 on it. Um, you know,

we live in Northwest Arkansas where cost of living is pretty low. I think we could probably go with something that would probably knock off like I'm guessing about 40 grand off of our >> That's not very I I I don't want to be rude. That's just not very much money. No, >> that's not like funding all six kids college level money. And the other thing is is the is the mortgage a problem?

Like what is the mortgage compared to your take-home pay?

>> No, the mortgage is not a problem. We pay extra on it. It's a 30-year mortgage, but uh we pay it like it's a 15 or normally we even pay more on it.

>> Okay. Well, here's the good news. >> We're hoping to pay it off in like 5 to seven years, but I'm thinking like if we were to buy a house that is less, then we could knock off even like two to three years off that. Well, the the good news is there's no uh Ramsay mandated rule that you have to pay off a house in seven years or else you're a terrible person.

>> So that you have to pay for all of their college. >> Yeah, exactly. That's the other part that we haven't talked about is what can they be doing to help cover some of that cost so it's not all on you to have, you know, 200 grand per kid by the time they're 18. >> So I don't think I personally, just based on what I've heard, I would not downgrade your home.

>> I would not either. It's not going to be the savings you think. And the other the other good news is they're going to be out of the house eventually and you'll have that margin back which then you'll throw at the house and it'll get done in seven years instead of five and we'll still high-five you then. >> And here's the thing.

>> We could just write checks for everything my son wants to be a part of. He's 15 and my daughter's nine.

>> But they have to participate in some of that. And it's I think the thing I would

rather you do than by the way if you sell your house you got to take 6% off the top or 7% because you're going to have to pay really like that 130 is going to dwindle real fast. Um and then moving cost and all that kind of stuff. I'd rather you sit down with the kids and paint them a real picture about if y'all want to be involved in these things. We're going to do this percentage and y'all going to do that percentage. Let them be a part of this.

That's the better long-term lesson.

Here's

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Hey, if you're enjoying the show, make sure to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, send it to someone that that you love, that you'd want to see get on this Ramsy plan. We just want to help the most people and hitting those buttons uh lets the algorithm know we're going to show up in your feed. We're going to show up in your life. So, appreciate you guys doing that.

It's the best marketing we have. Cararissa is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. >> She explains it all. What's up, >> Cararissa?

I think that's Clarissa, actually. >> Oh, my bad.

>> I apologize, Cararissa. >> Sorry. >> Oh, it's okay. I just want to start off by saying my husband's a huge fan of yours, John. >> Well, good. I'm glad you're not. Just your husband. Tell your husband. Shout out. >> No, I am. I am >> sure. >> Was that what I meant? >> No, I'm playing. I'm totally playing. What's up?

>> Um, so my husband and I are currently >> Hey, your phone is really cut. >> It's cutting out. Talk directly into it.

>> Sorry. I have really bad service where I live. >> Okay. >> Um, >> Fort Wayne people, they're really struggling out there.

>> Well, it's like the rural area outside of Fort Wayne, so really bad.

>> Uh, we have paid off 152,000 in debt. I

mean, we currently have 30 still to pay off. Um, we are both active duty and as you know the government shutdowns. We don't even know if we're going to get a paycheck on the 15th. >> Oh jeez. I hate Can I just say I hate this for you. I hate this for you.

>> I'm so sick of this.

>> Hold on. Take a breath. You're good. You're good. No. Take a breath. It's You're here. You're here like literally serving your country >> and you're a pawn in this weird scheme >> and you've become a a chess piece and other people It's just I hate it.

I do too. >> As a taxpayer, yeah, you're like you're like, "Tell me about it. I'm not the one." Yeah. You're the one not getting paid. As a taxpayer, can I just tell you I hate this is happening to you and it shouldn't be happening. I'm sorry.

>> I appreciate that. >> Thank you for loving my family and George's family and taking care of us.

>> I appreciate you. This sucks. This is stupid. >> It does. It's not fun, especially with bills still having to come out. Um, >> man. So, USAA is offering a government shutdown loan for those basically

they're paying out interest free to cover what our what service members are not receiving from the paycheck. It's up to the amount of their paycheck.

I am on the fence about it because it's interest free. It's enticing um payback.

>> Well, you're calling the Ramsay show. So, obviously never. Listen, I know I'm

not going to get a yes answer, >> but listen, one of the last bargaining chips I heard was, "I'm not going to pay any back pay." >> Well, I will get back. There's 0% interest. I'll receive my back pay.

>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying is one of the last bargaining things I heard was if if this doesn't if the shutdown continues, I'm not giving anybody back pay.

>> That was one of the I don't remember which side. That was one of the sides arguments. >> As in what if that paycheck doesn't show up and you still have this loan hanging over? Correct. >> So that's something to think through.

>> Do you guys have anything in savings right now? >> Well, we just have to start our savings right now. >> Do you have a,000 bucks? >> Which is a,000? Yes. >> Okay. >> And what what is your next bills that are coming up that you need to pay?

>> Um our utilities, daycare, because we

still have to go to work. Um tuition and

mortgage.

>> Tuition, mortgage. Okay. What's the mortgage?

$2,000 a month.

>> And what do you guys normally bring home in a month?

>> Um each we bring home in a month well each paycheck is a little over three grand.

So >> So 6,000 >> 6,000 I want to call or 6,000. Okay.

>> For me personally and then he brings home the se the same amount.

>> So you guys have 12 grand coming in normally?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. That's good. You guys have a great income. That's fantastic. Uh, and you had 30K to go. So, what I would do is pause all of your debt payments right now and just cover the four.

>> We've already made those payments with the first month paycheck.

>> Okay. Before we knew what was happening,

>> right? >> Yeah. Cuz you guys are in storm mode.

So, the only thing we're trying to do right now is keep the lights on, keep food on the table, keep the mortgage paid. The rest of the debts, we're just going to pause. If you can't pay your your minimum payments, you can't pay it.

>> Your family's going to come first. And so the thousand bucks will get you to utilities and partial daycare. I don't know if you can work something out with the daycare.

>> I know she's got a bunch of military families that she's watching. So I'd have to talk to her. >> I imagine they're going to work with them to go, "Listen, nobody can pay daycare right now, >> right?" >> And so maybe they'll allow you to pay that on the back end. Uh and the tuition is for what?

>> Uh my two middle kids uh school.

>> Yeah. I' and I'd go knock on their door too right now. And it's embarrassing and humiliating and I hate that you're in this situation. It's so dumb.

>> It is. >> But the good news is it's no fault of your own. I think people are going to be hopefully understanding in a onetoone conversation of, "Hey, you guys know what's going on. Here's what's happening. As soon as this this shutdown's over, we'll get current on all of our payments." And same with the mortgage. Contact your mortgage company.

Let them know what's going on. And so then you know at least you have priorities of what needs to be paid based on how those conversations went down and what's going to happen if you don't pay. >> My guess is everybody will be supportive

>> and maybe one won't maybe one will say sorry we got to have our money and that would be the one that you'll focus on.

>> Okay. >> And you're I mean you're literally going to in storm mode meaning no going out to eat no movies. No, I know you'll >> priority. Don't do >> it's going to be like a creative, hey, what's in the freezer?

Let's get play a game. What can we make out of this? >> It's hunting season. Get after it, husband.

Right. >> And it's also like we got to go do Can you guys go do side hustles? What's the legality of you guys taking on some side work?

>> I would have that conversation today.

>> Okay. And again, the beauty is like George said, you're not I mean, everybody should be lining up in front of the the senior officer's office saying, "Hey, I need to go drive Uber because when I get off shift until midnight because we don't have any money, >> right?" >> So th those that's the hard truth is right now it's just do whatever we can to sell stuff, to take on the side hustles, to cut our expenses down to the bone, to have the onetoone conversations with anybody we owe to see if we can kick the can down another week, another two weeks until this is all settled and we know what's next.

>> And I and I I totally get if I'm in your situation, I I'm telling you, as much as

I hate borrowing money, I would consider that. You're not crazy,

right? You're not crazy, but I'm just George and I would not have a job if every loan that people took out with a plan worked out, >> right? >> And the threats I've seen thrown around on on all sides of this mess. We're going to fire everybody. We're going to not do back I just don't trust anything

to play out like it should. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in the situation.

>> Right. >> Right. >> There's that famous quote, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Is the most scariest quote. This is also like I'm a lender and I'm here to help.

That's also that's that's some scary words right there that I would I would, you know, take heed, take caution. And so I would fight as much as I could until your back is so far up against the wall the lights are out. And then I'm going, okay, we had we had no other route to go. I would borrow, you know, money from family. I'd start a GoFundMe before I took out a loan.

And I do think >> has already done that. >> I I do think this is important. The earlier you get in front of this, I'd call the mortgage company today, even though you may not have to pay them for another two or three weeks and just say, I'm already trying to make make planes.

You know that I've never been laid on my mortgage. We're in a dual a military house. the government's not sending us the the payments they promised us, but we still have to go to work. Um, do you all have a plan?

Can we pause? And I almost guarantee you they'll say, "Absolutely. We got you." >> Okay. >> And I I can't guarantee that.

Let me take that back.

>> Right. >> Right. What I don't want to have happen is you go borrow 10 or 15 grand. You'll

exhale. you get through this month and then the back pay doesn't come.

>> Yeah. >> And then you say, hey, even though it's a zero percent, like they want their money back and it'll they'll go, well, now that was a that was a a one-mon thing. Now it's going to trigger, you know, 15%. >> It was 90 days no interest, but now we're going to charge back. Who knows what's going to happen down the road, right? >> Right. >> And I appreciate I I'm going to say something crazy. I appreciate USAA reaching out and trying to keep people afloat. I get that sentiment. Um, I just

think you're in a situation where you can go knock on some doors and make some phone calls and tell everybody two weeks, three weeks before, hey, we're in a we're in a pickle here and everyone in this community is in a pickle. Um, we just want you to know we don't have any money right now. And hopefully they'll say, yeah, we we get it. Um, just keep sending your kids, keep taking care of stuff that's not going to work at the grocery store, but hopefully for those big expenses, it'll it'll hold off.

Hopefully we get this >> we get this nonsense.

>> This is this is what Congress isn't seeing. These are real people. And it's not even Carissa. It's it's the person who runs the the daycare center who's not going to get paid. And it people that aren't going to get paid. >> What a nightmare. >> It's just a nightmare.

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Cassie is in Montgomery up next. What's going on, Cassie?

Hi fellas. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Okay. Um, we purchased, my husband and I purchased a second home when our oldest child started college because after a couple years, we figured out the game in college towns and and by the time they graduated, we were going to be bankrupt.

Like they upped the rent every freaking year. So, we found a a pretty cheap

little house and bought it. And our youngest child is now in college. So, everything is is just clicking off until our oldest child got married and decided

not to leave. So, he is he

>> So, your short-term real estate game is now long-term and your renter is also your child.

>> Yes. >> Hold on. You're the landlord. You can make them leave.

>> Oh, no. I would never do that. We want to help them buy a house. They they I mean I know you know how difficult it is for young people. They're both working full-time. They've only been married two months, so it's it's not um but they were originally moving to her city and

that just like changed just for the wedding. She was offered a new job in town and so he didn't have to move after all. And >> so where is this where is this house?

>> It's in Auburn, Alabama.

>> Okay. So not too far from you guys.

You're in Montgomery. No. >> Well, are they paying market rent? How is this working?

>> Well, we just started. Obviously, they they're uh my my youngest had to move out. They had been roommates in our house. We had to find the youngest a place to live. Um so, they've been covering. We took a um a small mortgage

out on it and had just been paying it off because the short term of it was we're going to pay this, you know, it's going to be selling before the 15 years would be up anyway. So, um but uh we've

been paying extra payments on it just because that's what we do. We don't have any other debt. And um so we thought,

and I just want to bounce this off of somebody for some help, that we would let them have them pay rent um that just

kind of covers the basics of the

mortgage and and all of that for a few years so they can save up a down payment and then they can buy the house um on

their time and we'll give them, you know, the excessive family discount of course on the house. So yeah, my investment that was going to pay for my uh vacation house is no longer >> I would I would recommend a a different thing.

>> Okay, >> I would recommend not planning two or

three years ahead with them.

>> And here's why. >> Okay, >> the the mobility of young people,

especially young married couples, and the way the job markets are right now, they're just kind of a mess.

And so what I would hate is two years down the road, your son gets a huge

um a huge raise and they don't want to live in a tiny little house in a tiny little college town. They want to move across town and or she gets pregnant or she doesn't want to work. Like so I think you might have that in your mind, but I wouldn't put that on the table right now. I would say, "We're going to sign a lease." And I I know this is uncomfortable, but I want you to teach them >> and keep everything clean relationally between y'all.

>> We're going to sign a year lease together. Here's what your rent's going to be, and you can wink at them and say, "We're going to hook you up, and we hope y'all will save for down payment, and look at the blessing that this is, and y'all make the rent as low as you want." Like, whatever.

>> And then if they want to stay there the next year, cool. and then tell your son if y'all ever want to buy this, it's your job to call us

because I don't want there to be. >> That was their idea. >> I know it is right now, >> but it might not be in two or three years, >> right? Which is still not going to hurt us cuz then we sell it at value.

>> No, no. I I'm y'all financially y'all going to be fine. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about the relationship stuff about him having a young wife that kind of doesn't want to live there anymore, but they already promised mom and they've been hooking us up and now we have to do this and >> Oh, I see. So, let him off the hook. I got you. >> So, it's it's you saying, "Y'all want to buy this house someday? Great. We're going to take this year by year

because you don't you and your husband don't have to have this to survive.

You're help you're in a position to help them out." And but man, I'm I care way less about the money on this. I care way more about the relationship part on this.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's vital to us.

That's why this is like our wedding gift to them to give. >> Amazing. Amazing. >> A huge >> But but you when you sit down and sign this lease and tell you and your husband tell them if in two years something else comes up, y'all get one of y'all wants to take a job somewhere across the country or y'all want to move to a different neighborhood.

Like y'all, we're always going to be in your corner. We don't ever want this house or this lease to come between us, >> right? >> But I that would be my recommendation not to make a plan now that's two or three years out with a brand new young married couple that just graduated college. The world's too fluid right now.

>> Sure. >> Now, there are some financial implications you need to think about if this does happen. Or number one is capital gains for you guys because it's a rental property and not a primary residence.

>> Residence. >> Yeah. And you'll also have a loss of the step up in basis for the kids. So that's one reason we always say, "Hey, let your kids inherit the home after you pass, but don't give it to them while you're alive because you lose that step up in basis, >> right?" >> So whatever the house was, you know, worth, there could be some huge tax costs down the road for the kids. Then there's also gift tax issues. If you sell it below market value, that would be considered a gift in the IRS's eyes.

>> Just the gap between what it was worth. >> Yes. If you if it's worth 500, you sell it to them for 300 because you said, "I want to just be nice." Well, that $200,000 discount is considered a gift and that's above the IRS's, you know, gift tax exemption.

>> I see. >> So, there's there's a lot there's things to think about if you want to do that.

>> There's better ways to gift your kids a bunch of money is what I'm saying. If that's what you're trying to do, and to John's point, there's so many other things here that's like, would they actually want this house? If it didn't exist, would they just go up and buy this house? Probably not.

So, if you want to just gift them a down payment, you can gift them, you know, 18 grand per year per person and that could add up pretty quickly if you wanted to do that and then they can go use that money to do whatever they want with.

That would be better from a like tax perspective if you're trying to be smart about it. So, I would get with a Smart Vster Pro. You can reach out to one at Ramseyolutions.com and they can help you navigate the right way to do this so you don't have any regrets later of going, "We had the right motive. We had the right heart, but it ended up being more of a headache than it was worth and it was bad for both parties.

>> So, George, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf.

So, let's say these kids move out and they sell the house and there's a couple of college kids that they like and they're just going to sell it to them and they bought the house for 200. The house appraised at 250. They're going to sell it for what they owe, 180. Right?

If they sold it for 180, even to people not their kids, do they still have that gap? Cuz I thought I would sell my house as much as I want, as cheap as I want.

If I were to sell my house, >> I don't think that would be considered a gift in the IRS's eyes.

>> Okay. >> Because it was that that gap is not to benefit, you know, your kids.

>> So, the fact that it's their kids is going to add into it. >> I think so. I think your your family would play a role in how the IRS sees these gifts happening. And so, I would definitely, you know, cross your tees, dot your eyes on this, Cassie, to make sure that you're doing it the right way and that there's not a bunch of zeros at the end that you guys go, "Oh my goodness, we did not think through this.

We just thought we were doing a nice thing." How much is this house worth?

>> Um, it's worth about 285.

>> Um, we would we bought it for 150.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's appreciated a lot, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then I would We had talked about selling it to them for 220.

>> Okay. I I would check with the tax person. That doesn't sound out of bounds to me.

>> Okay. Okay, that doesn't sound bomb >> because I figured out what their payment would be and you know that that would be kind of easy for them to do and it wouldn't be a burden.

>> Okay. >> Um >> and then they'll have to qualify for the mortgage on their own, >> right? And she just started her job, so she needs a couple of years >> to get their feet under. >> Yeah.

I just didn't want you to prop them up artificially and then real life hits and they go, "Oh my goodness, this was a nice gift, but we can't even afford to maintain the gift." >> Yeah. I like the idea of them signing a one-year lease or a six-month lease and y'all being so open-handed with we love y'all. This is supposed to be a a blessing for y'all and our relationship's always going to come over and then y'all do your homework on the tax stuff. Best of luck.

You've got a great heart casting.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by the host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney.

Open phones at88255225.

Call us and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Elena is in Mississippi up next.

What's going on, Elena?

Hi. Um, thank y'all for having me. Um,

we are wondering kind of what to do with

our car situation. Me and my husband recently got married in July. We've got two older cars and I would love to buy

another fun project car. Um, we're

trying to figure out if that would be the right move for us or not.

>> By project car, do you mean something that like a clunker that you fix up and then sell?

I would like to buy something to fix up and keep, but he would like to buy something to fix up and sell.

>> So, you want a hobby, he wants a business.

>> He's got his He already has a hobby. I would like a hobby as well, and he wants a business. >> And you both can turn a wrench. >> A hobby?

>> Yes. >> That's fun. Okay. What's this project car going to cost you?

Um, well, the ones we've been looking at uh range from about 15 to $900 to uh buy

and then about 15 to $2,000 in parts.

>> Okay. So, let's call it let's call it two grand to get it and two two grand to fix it. So, four grand all in.

>> What kind of car? What kind of car do you want to get? >> It's a Hyundai Genesis. It'd be a 2.0 turbo. >> That's what's up. >> Oh, are you going to drop it real low and put lights on it and listen to like music?

No, he's got a 3.8 uh V6 and we've

absolutely loved it. We rebuilt the motor in it. It blew up about two years ago now. Um so it it has definitely been

a lot of work, but it has been so much fun for the both of us and I absolutely love the car and >> you're my favorite caller I've had in weeks. >> So rock and roll. >> They don't make them like you anymore, Elena. >> My wife wants to make sourdough bread and you want to fix car engines. My car My car runs on AA batteries. Ladies out here talking V8 to push it when it runs out. >> Okay. So, do you have $4,000?

>> Uh, yes. Um, we have been very fortunate. We have a paid off house. We are completely debtree. The cars that we do have are paid off. Um, and we've got

a very good emergency fund saved up and we've got a good bit in cash to do this as well. >> So, how much cash do you have outside of the emergency fund? just this is fun money that we've saved up.

>> Um we've probably got about $6,000.

>> Awesome. And so what's the rub here?

Does your husband not want you to do this project car?

>> We're we're getting to the point that he drives a service truck every day. So his car is not going to work and back. My

car does go to work and back and it is getting higher on mileage. It's a 2006 4Runner. It's got 250,000 miles on it.

Um, so if >> you guys need better cars happen, they don't. These guys are awesome, George.

>> But is he like, "Well, we need better cars for ourselves before you go working on a fun little project." Is that his mentality? >> He really he really wants us to save up for a truck because we are in need. We do borrow my dad's maybe two or three times a month. Um, just the things we do

where we live. It would be more of a beneficial for us to have a truck, a reliable truck versus another fun car.

>> If you sold the the service truck or would you not sell it? Would you keep the two older cars?

>> We would have to keep the two older cars. The service truck comes with his job that he's at. So, we pay nothing on the service truck. >> So, it sounds to me like you, and I the way I almost said this sounded awful, but you know, I'm saying it with a smile on my face. You're the one with the thing here, right? because he doesn't drive his >> thing, but I want to keep the thing.

>> He doesn't but but you don't. This isn't about a car like because you have a cool fun car that's actually faster and more powerful than the one you want to fix up. >> And he's saying just drive that one cuz I don't even drive that one to work. You're saying >> I want another project to do with you.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I think you need to have that conversation.

>> Okay. >> Because he's looking at this like we have enough cars. We have too many cars. We actually have a need which is a truck. And you're saying, "I want to spend time doing a thing with you."

>> Yes. >> And I don't know many husbands that would not just like smile from ear to

ear for days if their wife said, "You know what? I just we don't need any more deer. I just want to hunt with you all the time." >> John dreams of that conversation. >> I know. Or I I I I just want to go I want us to dance all the time. Like you know what I mean? Like that's a that's an amaz But that sounds like the real conversation. Is that Tell me if I'm wrong. I may be off off base here.

>> That that is a conversation we need to have, but we're also to the point that

both cars have issues and he's worried about us not having a reliable car.

>> And I think that's fair. >> The company The company's very strict on the service trucks and they are just working back and that's it.

>> How much can you guys save per month towards like a car fund?

>> Um, right now not much. Uh, we just have

been fortunate to pay our house off, so we're still trying to figure everything else out of that. >> That's what I was thinking. You guys are debtree with an emergency fund. You should have the most margin you've ever had. Are you guys not making enough?

>> We do. >> Um, we take home about five grand every month. >> And your expenses are how much to cover all of your utilities, insurance, food.

Uh they they run about 12 between

insurance and uh we do have a I have

some medical bills that have to be covered every month. >> Okay. Um >> but you're talking three months y'all could have 12 grand plus the six you

have >> and with your your wrench turning capabilities. Y'all could get a rad

70 80 or 90s F-150 and make it pretty

cool, right?

>> Yes. He really would like a Dodge Ram and I like them too. >> Well, that's embarrassing for both of you, but you can do that. >> What is the truck that he wants? What does that cost?

>> Um, the ones we've been looking at are 12 to 16,000.

>> Okay. So, how about this? I think we can compromise and go, let's eat our vegetables before we eat dessert. Let's get this better truck. And so, we can save up 16 grand. We get the truck.

Then, once we have the money on top of that, the extra four grand, then we get the the fun project car. And you can cash flow that. You can get it for 15.

>> You're talking 3 months. You're talking for Christmas y'all get this truck. You already have six saved. You just need to save 10 grand more.

>> Yeah. >> So, put away 3,300 bucks in a savings account. Cover the rest of your bills with whatever's left over. And you've got this money by Christmas.

>> That Yeah. I hadn't thought about it like that. >> I would put it on paper to help him visualize it and go, "You know what? I've had a change of heart. I talked to those Ramsay Show guys. We're going to get to that truck." >> Well, nerdy, they were right. Cuz then the next month, come January, you've got an extra 1,500 bucks to go get your project car. And the next month, you have the money to fix it up.

>> Yeah. >> So, all of this is going to happen by Valentine's Day.

>> He's smiling at me through the window.

He's listening to the show. >> Hey, tell him he is not allowed to say the words, "I told you so." Or all of this advice goes out the window and you go get your car. Okay? He's not allowed to say, "I told you so." >> And I I do think >> I think he took that too well. I I do think that y'all need to consider selling one.

>> You don't need five cars in the >> car. Yeah, y'all y'all are getting Beverly Hillbillies real quick. I You don't need that many cars, but if you got some older cars, I think you find one, whether it's the you can get some good money for that 4Runner >> or the other the other his little toy car that he doesn't get to drive very much. I'd sell one of those if not both of them and get this truck cuz you'll get that thing knocked out so fast. But man, George, these they're awesome.

>> Yeah. I'm like, "Can you guys come fix up our cars in Nashville?" >> Not yours.

>> You have to have a stint at the Apple store to fix up your car. >> I just hit software update and then it's it fixed it. We're good now.

>> Yeah, they use cars with like oil and stuff. >> I bet they know their way around a clutch pack piston. Tell you that much. >> I don't even know the words you just said. >> Google it.

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Investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be that way. The Ramsay Investing in a Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools and resources that can help you get informed, not intimidated.

You can check it out at ramseysolutions.com/retire or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

And again, that hub is completely free and packed with great tools. Susan is in New Jersey up next. Susan, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm hoping you can help me. >> We hope so, too. >> Let it rip. What's up? >> No promises.

>> Okay. So, my husband um was a six-f

figureure income earnner and a year ago, August, he lost his job um supporting

the VA and government um when the contract he was on did not renew. Um

so, he is in his late 60s. I'm in my

early 60s. I take care of my mom full-time with dementia. Um he had been

continuing to search for employment and of course the way of the world, nothing's panning out. So he had been flipping homes in his fringe hours for about a decade and always being successful.

The last home that he did didn't go so

well. The one that he decided to take on

because he couldn't get government work.

He is ran into some situations with a

contractor and we are not going to realize the ROI that we had intended.

Um, so my question is, um, I do have a

401k and I do we do have, um, a rental property that our our home was paid off,

by the way. We were debtree. Um, we've been Ramsey followers. We've been debtree for quite a number of years. Um,

so we have this rental property that would return a decent ROI um, through

the, you know, peak season especially.

And typically we have extended stays in the winter time too. Right now um we're

still waiting for something to materialize.

Um the equity that we have in that is

about the same amount that I have in my 401k.

So when we sat down and looked at, you

know, what our expenses are for the home that we live in right now and our taxes are insane. So, the home that we live in now, um the rental property that we have, and then of course when he sells,

um the house that he's working on is going to be listed within the next two weeks. Um so, we're hoping for a quick turnaround, but as you know, you never know. Um so, that's really the essence

of my question. um is do I go to my

401 to survive on

or do I borrow against my so do I borrow

against my 401 or do we liquidate the

rental property and take the equity out of that even though that's been an income earner for us during the year which has been a huge blessing especially the fact that you know I'm caring for my mom And it's very very

difficult. I've always had a side hustle. I've always worked um until

mom's illness really took over. So >> yeah. Wow. >> There's my story. Yes.

>> Well, so far from what you've told me, option C is the most appealing. I don't like you robbing the entire 401k. Even though you could do so without penalty at your age. Um you're still going to, you know, there's going to be some tax implications. I hate the idea of you borrowing from your 401k at this game.

do that >> and selling the rental property to get some financial footing sounds like the most reasonable common sense option right now. So, how much could you sell the rental property for?

>> Sorry. >> You're okay. You're okay.

>> We think we could get in the upper fives. >> Okay. And you owe how much?

>> Be fully fully furnished. We owe 329.

>> So, could you net like 150 from this?

>> Yes. and use that money to kind of figure figure life out, figure out next steps.

>> Yeah, >> because my bigger concern is how would you guys survive in a retirement if he's unable to work in the future? What was the game plan? >> You know, that that's really a good question. And then there was another snafu, if you will, thrown in there where um he's had some medical issues.

um we thought he was going to need another open heart surgery this past spring and then God graced us with no

that wasn't the case. Um but now he does have some some issues. So that's the reason for the the home that he's work

currently working on and having to you know subcontract if you will.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> I think this is the time to simplify.

Would you not agree to just get well both of you and have some financial cushion? How much is in the in the total nest egg for retirement investments?

>> Well, that's a really good question. Um

I I I'm thinking so my 401

um and then our home is paid off.

>> Does he have any money in retirement at all?

>> Well, I just learned that no.

>> Okay. And here's here's my >> because he was trying to survive and >> I know we're not here to cast. We're

looking to see all the puzzle pieces here to help you navigate this.

>> One of the one of the most important things when life blows up is us to get real information, right? So we can get firm footing. >> Do and this I'm going to ask some questions. >> I'm I'm going to ask some hard questions. Okay. >> Do you have any other siblings that can help support your mom right now?

>> No. >> Okay. So you are completely on your own with her. You're completely on your own in this situation.

>> I am. >> Okay. Um, does she have Medicaid? Does she have opportunity? And it does anybody want that? No. But here here here's what I'm scared about. I'm scared you're going to sell this house. You're going to actually reduce your your monthly burden quite a bit because you'll have to make that house payment whether anybody stays there or not on that $500,000 mortgage. And so you're going to clear that from your day-to-day pressure. And you're going to get $150,000 cash infusion. That's cool.

But y'all don't have another plan after that, right?

>> So, um, we're hoping I mean, he's not afraid to to work. He loved He adored his job.

>> And I know I know, but listen, listen.

It's I need you. I'm saying this with all due love. That job that that identity that comes with saying, "I earned six figures." It is over.

>> Oh, yes. We know that. We know that. and his ability physically to do any job could be limited as well. So, we're just looking at reality. >> I'd rather him go get a job at Home Depot and make 45 grand. I'm I'm serious

because five figures >> and I didn't mean to laugh I didn't mean to laugh. I because we have talked about that >> five figures because a guy with his wisdom and a guy with his experience could go in there and start and then he'd be assistant manager in six months.

But making 45 grand is making five

figures is better than making zero figures. And that's not that's not casting any sort of anything other than y'all have a math problem,

>> right? >> And that's scary. And you throw in mom, you throw in his health, like you're you're barely hanging on.

>> And so there's something about we got to go like just choose reality. We got to deal in reality. this house that you tried to do that that season of our life. That's got to appear at the end of that sentence, too. >> The next right thing is Home Depot in the morning and Lowe's in the evening. And he's got a You're talking about an almost 70-y old man with a heart challenge. I get that, right? I totally get that. And y'all have a math problem.

It's a scary place to be. And you'll have to have some really come to Jesus hard conversations about not do we want to, not do we wish we could, but do we have the money to continue to house and support mom >> or do we have to put her in a facility where we can support her where where Medicaid can take over?

>> Yeah. So she she's um at home.

>> Mhm. >> So we do um there's three of us that are

I have two other caregivers and myself.

>> Okay. And that was the other thing is that he was helping to assist with her care until he said, "I really feel like I could write the ship if I just do one more house." And so I said, >> "Okay." But um we had some very

unfortunate situations with the contractor, which I won't get into.

>> Well, here here's it doesn't matter. It's all a distraction. >> It's all a distraction. He went he went for it. >> He went for it and it didn't work.

>> Yes. And so let's put a period at the end of that sentence. And I'm going to I'm going to high-five him for for going out there and scrapping and clawing and try to make it happen.

>> But we got to get some money in the house. And I hate that y'all are in this situation. >> George, so you think the right thing is to sell that rental house? >> I would sell this rental property.

It's the last thing you need right now in your life is to also be a landlord and have this debt in your life. And so I'd clear the decks. I'd have that money in the bank. You can put it in a high yield savings account for now to help you guys float by.

I mean, the interest it creates will at least cover a few bills right now. And then see if you can get paid to be a caregiver. It doesn't sound like you're doing that right now.

That might be an option as well. >> Husband's got to go get a job.

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Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Well, we've got a quick quiz that will help you check your progress and you'll get a a personalized plan made just for you. So, simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. James is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Up next, James, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, very appreciative of your time, so thank you. >> Absolutely. How can John and I help?

>> Uh, so long story short, I've been following you guys um for a few years

now. Um, and I feel like I blinked and

um I'm making a I can't believe I'm making this call, but uh we're planning on paying off our house in December.

>> Yeah, dude.

>> Congratulations. >> Fantastic. How old are you?

>> 35. >> Oh my goodness. >> Me and my wife, 35, and then we have a three-year-old daughter. >> Amazing. What's the house worth?

>> Uh, a little north of 600.

>> Awesome. Are you guys baby steps millionaires or on the cusp? Uh so um

that's actually part of my question. So um we you know most of our net net uh

net worth is going to be in the house.

Um and now we're kind of accelerating

with investments and retirement and everything that goes into that. And I guess my question is what exactly is next? Uh we we will not have any debt whatsoever uh once the house is paid off in December. >> Awesome. Um, >> so you're feeling lost cuz you're a guy who like you have the goal and you check the box and then Okay, now what?

>> Kind of. Yeah, I feel like uh we just beat the video game and now what's next, right? >> You got baby step eight. Give back to uh John. You can Venmo him. >> Yeah. Now you don't have to play video games anymore. That's the cool part.

>> I love it, man. >> Yeah. >> So now you you by December you'll be at baby step seven. Build wealth and give.

And this is where you just increase every area. So you're able to give more.

you're able to invest more beyond that 15% parameter. You're able to spend more. And so then it becomes you and your wife sitting down to kind of dream again to go, okay, what do we want the next 5 years to look like, 10 years to look like? What about legacy? Do we want to upgrade and house? Cuz here's the good news. You woke up the same guy the day after you pay off your mortgage. I assume you're a good-look guy, James.

>> Hey, you know what? They they don't call me humble for nothing. So, uh, >> there we go. uh >> I woke up looking just like I did and so that was very frustrating. I thought, man, I'm in baby step seven. I'm a new man. And then I still got to, you know, just do all the things that you got to do. >> Eyebrows, the whole thing.

>> So that's the that's the good news and the bad news. The good news is you have more margin than ever to spend more, save more, and give more. The bad news is you still got the same problems. You still got to do the car repair and upgrade and save for college. And so it's going to be oddly antilimactic.

And so the fun part is getting to dream again because you've been so focused on this goal. Clearly a young guy paying off his house this early. You guys were intense about this, weren't you?

>> Yeah, we were uh for quite some time. So

>> it feels really good to get here. >> Here's the question that um in a different context saved my marriage, but it has informed the way me and my wife make decisions. She asked me, "How do

you want this house to feel when you walk in every day?" And it it wasn't a it wasn't a fun conversation we were having. And I immediately said, I want this house to feel full of laughter and warmth and I want us to like I want you to be happy that I'm home. And that conversation led

to a whole bunch of other actions for both of us so that we could have that kind of house. And there's something amazing about you and your wife. You know what would be cool? You you get the babysitter and plan a half day with your

wife >> for the day after you hit send on this thing and y'all go out and you can symbolically clear the deck and say nobody can take our house away from us.

We're essentially millionaires and we're 35. Statistically, we're not even halfway home yet. And we get to decide how we want our home and our lives to feel moving forward.

>> And y'all can put on the table, you know what? We want to be able to give our kid a house when when she gets married. We want to be able to make sure she has no college debt and but we want her to go to college. We want to have new car.

We want to be able to give a million dollars by the time we're 45. Whatever that is. Y'all set those things together. Like basically, y'all aren't playing the video game anymore.

Now y'all are writing and and and creating your own video game. And then y'all just reverse engineer what must be true for those things to happen.

Mhm. Yeah. No, it sounds sounds amazing.

Like listen, like you had mentioned for my wife, like she definitely deserves it. You know, she's made so many sacrifices over the years to get this done. So, um >> So, where does she want to go?

>> Is there a trip?

>> Yeah. Uh so, yeah. So, you know, we've been we've been talking about things like that um for for 2026. So, >> where you know, where does she want to go? Um, well, specifically if we're talking in in country, you know, Lake Tahoe has always been like a a dream spot for her. >> Okay. Book it. Book it.

>> Yeah. >> Book it. >> Get get the suite. Don't cheap out.

Upgrade. Get the get the the big room

>> and Yes. Get get the get the spa day

every day of the time. Like every a spa treatment every time you like do that.

>> Upgrade the rental car. >> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No more no more Ford Focus. >> We're not going to be driving up in a Sentra. >> Exactly. Hello, Tahoe.

>> Right. But but it's it's you. This is going to sound crazy. I want you to start practicing >> giving money in crazy ways. Y'all start practicing tipping obnoxiously together.

I want y'all to practice putting a vacation on the calendar that you're going to go to. You're going to practice. It's going to feel weird because y'all have been y'all have been fight or flight for so long.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. No, that this all sounds amazing. So, again, really appreciate your guys' time and uh >> I say congratulations, brother.

>> Yeah, way to go. I love the story.

>> Thank you so much. Thanks again.

>> James is a stud. Love talking to him.

>> What's the thing you did after you paid off your house? >> Uh upgrade car. That was the carrot I dangled for both of us.

>> You car?

>> Yeah, it was I mean it was a nice It was a Tesla. It was a 2013. That's what I upgraded from upgrade >> from an09 Civic with the bumper hanging off. So that's my the key life hack is like never go way too much cuz then you to you got to up that next time.

>> So now my next car just needs to be nicer than a 2013. So >> I did get a lot of respect for you when you upgraded cars when I saw the one you bought yourself versus the one you bought Whitney. >> Yes. Much like a good man.

>> She deserves it. >> It's a good man. >> So that was Yeah, that was a great example for James. I'm like, it's probably time to upgrade the cars to something that scares you a little bit, but you're going to walk in and, you know, write a check and be done with it, but it's still going to be the most money you've ever spent on a car.

That's the part that's kind of interesting. As you get past baby step seven, every next thing you do is the most you've spent on that thing, >> and then you just go, >> "Oh, okay.

your church and go have coffee and say, "Hey, two or three families are going to come in during Christmas and they're going to be struggling. I want you to like just answer we got you and then you let me know and we'll we'll take care of that and it's going to we've never written a $3,000 check to somebody we don't know. We've never we're going to start doing this. >> Those are my favorite.

You get like the old lady who the lights got shut off and you go we're going to cover her light bill for a year. Or if you find out your neighbor, like we had in a previous segment that um >> hey, she's a military um member of the military, your husband's military, they are going to work every day and because of the stupid government shutdown, they don't get any food and the they're worried about groceries, they're worried about rent, they're worried about uh daycare.

>> That's done. >> I love those. And the the things that like bring tears to your eyes, like you're you know, you hear about the adoption story and that if that brings tears to your eyes, put money behind it.

I think that's a good life principle.

You find yourself crying during a commercial in a sports game? Just put a star by that and find a place in your local community to get involved with that one. >> Dude, I I'll cry at a Charmin commercial. Doesn't take much for me. >> Well, then you can start. >> I've invested a lot of money in Charmin.

>> Yes, >> those are those are fun. Yeah, I I just jotted down some things for James if he's he's still listening out there. Um a college fund. Like I would just put 10 grand in a 529 just cuz we can. And that way you're that money is all going to grow tax-free for college from age 3 to

18. Boom. That's done. Uh retirement, let's max it out. Let's max out a 401k.

Max out the IRA. Maybe do a backdoor Roth IRA if we make too much money.

Vacation fund. We got to put in a,000 bucks every month to get to 12 grand for that trip a year from now. A car fund.

That car is going to be 40 grand. We're going to pay cash. So we got to put away three grand for the next, you know, 13 months. So, the house fund, we want to upgrade in cash one day.

All right, that's going to be an extra 400 grand on top of ours. That's going to take five years to save up, 10 years. So, I like having all those set them in motion and then don't think about them. Like, put it on autopilot and don't let this consume you cuz I'm a goal guy like James.

And so, it took me a long time to just let go. And >> I'm a feelings guy. What do I feel like doing next? Let's go do that.

>> John is all feelings. I'm all logic.

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Our scripture of the A 1 Corinthians 15:33, "Do not be deceived. Bad company

ruins good morals." Jordan Peterson said, "You are not obligated to associate with people who are making your life worse." That's good advice. Michelle is up next

in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's going on, Michelle?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it. >> What's up?

>> Oh, I I'll tell you what. I've been following um you guys for about a year

and uh planned to make this call um although I thought it was going to be a very different phone call. Um so

my husband and I um you know we we started a business um opened our doors 5 weeks before COVID and uh pretty much

were in survival mode these past seven

years. Um, and uh, after digging a

bigger and bigger and bigger hole, um,

we finally decided it was time to call it quits. Um, get regular jobs and move

forward. Um, and I, uh, started working first. Um,

got us stable because we weren't even stable paying monthly bills. Um, and he,

uh, he got a job next. Um he had worked one

week and um had a massive heart attack

and passed away. >> Oh no. So sorry.

>> What was his name? Michelle.

>> Mel. >> Mel. Pretty awesome guy.

>> Yeah. We've got quite a story.

>> Yeah. Um how long were y'all married?

>> Uh was nine years um on the 9th

>> and he passed away on the 3rd of September. >> Of September. So, this is really fresh, huh? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, man. I'm so sorry.

>> So, um you know, part of

part of the struggle is that I just shut

down. >> Of course, >> I'm looking at everything that we need

to take care of and it's a kind of a

mix >> of of debt. Um there's tax issues,

there's um some student loan debt, um

some other debt, and unfortunately

everything is kind of coming to a head.

Um the job that he was getting would

have essentially doubled our income. He was going to make about the same amount as me. And you know, we had a plan. You

know, I was working on our budget and I was actually planning to call you guys and say, "Okay, this is what we got.

This is what we're working with. Where do we start? Um, but now it's just me.

>> Yeah.

>> And I don't even know where to start.

>> Well, f first here is hear me say like we're heartbroken with you. You're you're just a little over 30 days and so this is there's a chance you don't remember this phone call is what I want to say. And but I want you to remember that we loved you and we gave you some next right steps. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Um do you have any kids? Do you have any support in that way?

>> Um my daughter uh lives close by.

>> Okay. >> Um she's grown. >> What what we're looking for here is you're right. You've got bills. You've got um debts. You've got creditors.

There's probably stuff you don't know about related to the business. There's just stuff feels like it's piling up on you. Just know you're 30 days out. The

only things in the world that matter right this second are your four walls.

Do I have a place to live? Do I have heat and air? Do I have water? And do I have food and transportation?

Okay. >> And other people can knock on your door.

They can send you letters. And I'm not going to open them right now.

And some of that I've I've been in homes of with with women in your exact situation that know right now this house

is too much and I'm going to have to find a place to to live.

If that's your situation, then we'll take that route. If you're okay with your house right now, you you can afford on your salary to make payments right now, then we can exhale a little bit on that one. And we're literally going to get somebody to sit with us. And in your case, maybe your daughter, maybe a girlfriend, maybe somebody at work, somebody to sit with you and just simply walk through the bare basics.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Is there any kind of will or life insurance of any kind?

>> No. >> So, um, my husband, um, was actually

rebuilding his life. Um, we're both in recovery. God will God willing in November I'll have 36 years sober.

>> Oh, congratulations.

>> Thank you. And he um at the time of his

passing he had about seven years clean.

He was a heroin addict and that was part of our business. We started the business um with the idea of hiring people in

recovery and and helping them rebuild

and that was also part of his journey.

Um, so at any rate, um, I already owned

my house. >> Um, and so everything was in my name, so it's not complicated that way because he had nothing. >> Can you afford to stay in the house with your with the money you make?

>> Depending on how everything else falls, yes. >> Okay. >> In theory. >> Are you back to work?

>> Uh, I am. I am.

>> Okay. What are you making?

um about 75 um a year. >> Okay, >> good. Good. So, you you've got enough to cover all the basic bills right now. You can cover your four walls. Is there enough left over to make your minimum debt payments?

>> Um well, that's to be determined. Um as people are coming with things that are past due and trying to set up payment plans, I'm trying to figure out what kind of payment plans I can set up. >> I wouldn't do any of that right now.

I would get everything in order, pull credit reports for you and for him and

get a sense of what what what what's happening. Okay.

>> Okay. >> The other thing is there's things like if he had student loans then they may

they they may be relinquished since he passed. If y'all consolidated them, you may be on the hook for like so it's figuring out each one of these bills as they come in.

But I but but I don't want to start making payment plans over here and signing up with this one and calling this credit. It's going to feel like too much. I want you to have at least 60 days where you can exhale.

And there you're going to need to go like this is the this is like the hard brass tax part of this. Okay? You're going to go need to get about 15 or 20 death certificates and people are going to want to see it.

You're going to email it. It's going to feel like a like an outofbody experience dealing with the business side of someone you love passing away

and people are going to be mean. They're going to think you're pulling a scam on them and I would let that roll off my shoulders and I'm going to go do the next right thing.

Okay? But I want you to know what size elephant you have to eat here. Is it $150,000 in debt you owe everybody else?

Is it 25? Like how big is this thing?

And then we're gonna that's going to help us make the plan, >> right? >> How how how big of just the napkin math you've done, how big is this? How much money do you owe other people right now?

>> Um including the house?

>> No, ma'am. Not including the house.

>> Uh uh probably um about 120.

>> Okay.

>> And how much of that is his student loans? >> He didn't have any. The student loan.

The student loan is is me. It's actually a parent loan for my daughter's school.

>> Okay. Is she still in school or is she out and working? >> No, she's out and working and paying on her own loans. So, I took out a portion

um as a parent loan um to help cover

what she couldn't on her own.

>> Okay. M. Then if the number truly is

120, 120 150 and you make 75 plus your

house payment, you may be in a situation where you're going to have to sell your house and we're going have to clear this debt and we're going to have to downsize. We're going to have to live with daughter for 6 months. We're going to have to get a one-bedroom apartment. We're going to have to do some pretty radical things because a radical thing just happened to us. But here's the thing. I don't want you doing the next step on your own. I want you to have somebody with you. Okay.

>> Yeah. I don't even know where to start.

We've got you. We're going to hook you up with a financial coach, Michelle. You're not going to pay for it. It's on us.

And along with that, we're going to give you our every dollar budgeting app, the premium version. And that financial coach on our team is going to walk you through all of this, lay it all out for you to give you the lay of the land and and help you take those next steps cuz I know right now, I mean, you're a month in. You can't see the forest from the trees. Everything's cloudy.

>> Thanks for calling us. >> Yeah. God almighty, I'm so sorry.

>> Oh, hang on the line, Michelle. Uh Christian's going to pick up what you we'll get you connected to set up that financial coaching call.

[Music]

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## 279. Your Financial Comeback Starts Today | October 20, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union

Studio. This is the Ramsay

Show.88255225. 88255225

is the phone number. We'd love to hear from you today alongside the incomparable the denimwearing

nicely trimmed beard.

>> Keep going. I paid you good money on Venmo for this. >> George Camel folks, one of my favorites to be with. Uh the people the people like us, they they tell me. >> Well, we try to keep things uh light in a world that is heavy, calls that are heavy. We we give you the truth and we get we get you to smile along the way.

>> He's George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman.

We're here for you. Heavy topics, but we're going to do it in a light-hearted way and have some fun. Let's get right to it. Keith is joining us in Portland, Oregon. Keith, how can we help today?

>> Well, I could really use some advice in regards to getting my life along a better track um both personally and financially. >> Okay, tell us what the problem is. Where can we dive in?

>> Uh so, um currently I'm a truck driver.

I'm making about $70,000 a year. I have

uh I have about an $80,000

uh school debt, you know, and I'm at a

place financially where I can't even make the interest payments. Um not even

attacking the principal. >> Why is that?

>> Uh the way that my my money comes in, it's

not um I don't get a normal paycheck.

It's not a nineto-ive job. I get paid by the mile and how many miles I drive is

basically up to my employer. Um, and

>> I'll tell you what, let's let's reverse engineer this and I'm going to ask some questions for George to gather some info. Uh, he's going to help you on this. Let's talk about your bills. So, besides the student loan debt, um, well,

first tell me what is the collective amount that is due every month on the student loan?

>> Currently nothing. >> Okay. Currently nothing. >> Okay. So, you're not paying on it. So, what are your bills? >> Not paying on it, but it's bit uh well, we have the mortgage, which is about $1,200 a month. >> Okay. >> The insurance comes up to about another

$650 a month.

>> Okay. >> Uh I got a car payment, which is five

509 a month. >> Okay. And that's not counting my medication, which comes up to about maybe 110 every

month. Uh, and then

just the normal day-to-days. I I have an electric car, so whatever my other bills

are, I >> I share everything with my mother because uh I help take care of her.

>> So tell us a little bit more about the irregular payment. I understand it's irregular, but on average, if you look at the last 12 months, how often are you getting paid?

>> I get paid every two weeks.

>> I thought you said it was irregular.

>> Well, it's it's irregular as far as the amount comes. >> So, what's a bad month? What's a good month? Because it's not zero.

>> No, a bad month. A bad month is

uh net 29 about 2,900.

>> Okay. Okay. Well, that covers all the bills you just said. So, a bad month still allows you to survive. What's a good month?

>> Uh

maybe 38 39.

>> And is that related to activity? So, if I understood what you said, your your paycheck amount is is directly related to how much you're in the truck.

>> Yes. >> Well, why aren't you getting more opportunity in the truck?

>> It it we have contracts. The company I work for has contracts with Albertson's and Kroger, Fred Meyer Group.

>> Okay. I'm I want George to take the take over here, but I but this is this is how he and I kind of tag team. I I'm just wondering, is it not time for us to get a more reliable trucking job and we also have a degree that we have a student loan for and and we'll get to this, but

I'm just wondering if this is not the time when George helps you with the budget part of this. We need more consistent and quite better income. So, we'll come back to that, but I'm just going to stick that in your ear so that soaks in a little bit. George, take over. >> What's your degree in?

>> I was paid to stop my degree my senior year. >> Okay. What were you pursuing?

>> Uh, started out studying to become a business turnaround. So, I was studying accounting. Uh, and two years into that

degree, my uh parole officer told me that they weren't going to allow me to be licensed. I went to uh prison for uh

an aggravated battery and after I got out I started studying to become a business turnaround and then I ended up switching to communication after they told me that they weren't going to license me. >> Okay. Okay. And then you never finished but you had the debt hanging around anyways.

>> Uh no no that was when I was building the debt. I was going to school and collecting the financial aid so I can study to get that degree.

>> Right. >> Okay. And what what's your car loan?

What's the whole balance?

>> Uh 22, no 219, I think is what I got left on it. >> So 22 on the car, 80,000 in student loans. Any other debts? Credit card balance, medical debt, personal loan,

>> uh uh the school, the mortgage,

>> not counting the mortgage. You you told me the 80 for school and 22 on the car.

Anything else?

I have approximately

$3,500 in personal debt for um charge

off accounts um um for for businesses

that I done I I'd done uh business with.

But >> um >> so we're over 100,000 in debt. We're making 70. I'm just trying to get to the math of it and kind of take the emotion and the and the story and the narrative out because obviously you've been through some things and you you said on the call, I want to turn around my life and money is just one part of it.

>> Yeah. >> So, are you wanting to stay in the trucking world?

>> I'm sorry. >> Are you wanting to stay in the trucking field?

>> It's the only thing that I could think of that I can do that's going to pay the money that I can make now. Before that, I was I was in a nowhere mid-management.

>> Yeah. uh making maybe $45, $50,000.

>> And I'm fine with that. I I think short term we just need to focus on the money and you need a better trucking job. You need a better driving job. But I think George can help you with this budget.

>> I think right now you you said you live with your mom. Is she covering half the bills or are you covering all of her bills? >> She's getting um she she gets uh uh

social security.

>> Okay. And are you paying 1,200 bucks? Is that the whole mortgage or is that half?

>> No. No, it's the it's the mortgage. Um

that's just the mortgage. That's Yeah, the mortgage. And that doesn't count the insurance and Yeah. Okay. everything else. >> Well, here here's what you got to do.

You're going to have to decide that you're going to take control of every single dollar coming in. And every extra dollar beyond your barebones bills is going to go towards knocking out these debts. And you're just going to look at it from smallest to largest. Right now, you've got a mountain you're looking at.

You need to break these all out cuz I'm I'm Are these all student loans? Like are there 11 student loans in this mix or is it just one giant one?

>> One giant one from what I understand.

>> You did a consolidation.

I >> I think they consolidated. I called and told them that that's what I wanted to do but um they held off. I explained to them my circumstances and they >> So are you in like a deferment forbearance situation where the interest is acrewing >> and you're just not needing to make payments cuz you got to start making payments cuz that balance is going to go from 80 to 100 real quick when you're not attacking it. So hang on the line.

I'm going to gift you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It comes with a Get Clear Career Assessment. I hope that helps on the job search as you build something out of that. And then also Every Dollar, our premium budgeting tool to help you take control of every dollar coming in. We're rooting for you to turn around your life, man. You've been through a lot and you just got to climb out one day at a time, one step at a time. Keith, very simple formula. Use every dollar. Get control of your money and then go make more money. Those two simple things change your life.

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[Music]

>> All right, we're going to Paul in Knoxville, Tennessee. Paul, how can we help today?

>> Hey, George. Ken, how y'all doing?

>> Uh, we're having a little too much fun today. What's going on with you?

Uh well I have a um I I'll give you my

question just at the very uh basic. It's

um simply how do you or or I as a

husband and father balance providing for

my family with being you know an active

present godly leader for my wife and kids. >> Okay I appreciate the question. That's about 75,000 feet in the air. We need to get a lot lower.

>> All right. >> So let me give you some back. >> Well let me dig. Let me dig and it might save us all some time. Okay. So, when somebody asks that question, >> uh we're talking to somebody who um is

feeling guilty um because you're spending a lot of hours outside the house working and maybe you're getting a little bit of pressure or ask or your heart's a little sad because you're away from the family. Is that true?

>> Actually, for me, it's the other way around. I uh just recently started a new job after being laid off for three months. >> Okay. and it's a good job. It's great benefits. Um, but according to my budget, it's not enough take-home pay to make ends meet. So, my first instinct, you know, what I what I was originally thinking was I need to get a second job.

You know, flip burgers, stock shelves on the weekends. But if I did, I wouldn't

see much in my wife and kids.

>> Okay. But how much more money do you need to make? So, you've been laid off for three months. Part of this is you've been home probably for a good amount of that time.

Yeah, >> you got used to it. And uh how old are the kids?

>> Um almost to 8, 10, and 12.

>> And I can tell you the 12-y old >> working from home at my previous job, too. So >> that's what's going on. Your kids are okay. The 2-year-old has no clue.

2-year-old has no clue, has no understanding of time. So the 2-year-old's not going, "Boy, daddy's not around like he was." The 12-year-old's getting to the point where they don't care. Uh, if I'm being honest, I got three teenagers. So, I think you're making this thing a little bit bigger. You've got a responsibility first and foremost to take care of the family and make a contribution. So, more

money, less time is okay for a season if

that's what it takes to work into a better situation. So, let's look at the numbers. All right. So, how much more

money do you need to make? Which is now you're going, well, I need this much more and that is why I have to do the second job. How much more money do we need to make? Yeah, I'm short about $1,200 a month.

>> Okay. What are you making?

>> I'm making 61141 a year.

>> Okay. What were you making?

>> I was making 82 a year.

>> Doing what?

>> Uh software developer.

>> And what are you doing now?

>> Um computer programmer analyst. Similar but not quite the same. And is that the reason for the drop in pay is because the role is that much different?

>> Uh mostly uh part of it is uh just the area

I'm in uh doesn't you know it's kind of a you know lower cost of living so the income is generally a little bit lower >> and the remote the remote gig the remote gig was with a company that's not local.

>> Uh it's it's close but they were just paying at a higher rate.

>> Okay. Well, so and I know you can't see the future, but what would need to be true for you to be getting back to the 80 the 81 or whatever it was?

>> Well, I would either need uh you know, some kind of promotion um at the job I'm at um or I could find something else. My

big issue is the job I've got. It's a government job. The the benefits are fantastic. Uh, you know, if I included all the benefits, you know, I'd be I'd be making, you know, probably 82.

>> Yeah. But the benefits are so great.

>> You can't live off of it. >> Can't put food on the table. But man, this 401 403b is amazing. The match is

great. >> So, had I asked you a minute ago, did you take this job because you were a bit desperate and you just needed AJ O, or did you take it because it's got a great path to what you want to do? I know what the answer is now. You just took it because of a >> Yeah. Um yeah, I'm uh yeah, we're, you

know, scratching through the couch cushions, you know, looking for >> change. So So George, would you agree second job is absolutely a must right now? And the kids, you know, that'll help you to get a better job.

>> Yeah, it's a band-aid, though. We got to solve the the root problem here because I don't want you working a side hustle for the next 12 years to make this work.

So what's at the root of this? Do you guys have debt you're trying to pay off?

>> Uh yeah. Uh we had started the uh the

baby steps, you know, about five months ago and got the uh you know, got the the

baby step one completed. We were starting on step two. You know, barely started into it when I got laid off.

>> How much debt do you have right now? What's the total balance excluding a mortgage?

>> Excluding the mortgage, I'm at $10,94845.

>> Okay. So, we got 10 grand to knock out.

And that'll free up how much in payments every month? Yeah.

>> Uh that'll free up something like

$700 a month.

>> Okay. That's a nice raise. >> That becomes the new number cuz I'm going, hey, once we clear this debt now, this is the foreseeable future. We got to clean up that $700 gap.

And we can do that uh I think with a full-time job in the long term and some short-term side hustles right now. And is your wife at home with the kids all day? And are they are they in school? What's going on there?

uh she isn't home all day. She homeschools well three out of four of them and uh you know just yeah generally you know keeps the house running keeps the kids from burning it down.

>> Uh no she's pretty hands-on uh at this point. you know, the older ones are getting a little bit of some online stuff, but uh you know, a lot of it.

Yeah, she's she's >> working. I'm going to challenge you. You didn't call this show for us to just clap for you. I'm going to challenge you. Maybe we need to change that homeschool rhythm because if she is a able-bodied working adult in the house and you guys are in the position you are, this is about a better life and I

don't, you know, I'm not going to just, you know, there's a way for these kids to do homeschool and she can work some more.

And maybe you're home in the evenings and she goes out to do the side hustle.

If she's just dying to get out of the house, she can go make the money and you can be home with the kids if you want. But I don't think this is about being present with your family when you're a stressed dad at home all day knowing you're 1,200 bucks short.

>> You're not going to be very present with the family until you solve this math problem.

>> That's a good point. >> Is your mortgage eating up a lot of your take-home pay?

Uh mortgage is eating up pretty uh pretty significant amount. I've got uh 172,000 on the mortgage. It's comes to about $1,200 a month.

>> And what are you bringing home every month? >> Oh, and I'm well I don't know yet, but

uh I just started this job, but uh based on my salary and benefits and everything, I'm bringing home about 3900 a month. >> What if you stopped all investing for a season?

>> How much are you investing right now? Yeah, actually that is uh stopping all investing. Uh there's a mandatory 5% that comes out for p for pension, but uh

you know the the only uh thing that's coming out is uh that 5% and uh medical

dental vision and uh taxes.

>> Okay. Well, in the interim, we're going to have to get hustling on the weekends and evenings. Maybe once the kids are down, you help put the kids down and then you're out for three hours doing side gigs. But I would be applying for better software development jobs.

There's no reason for a guy in your shoes with your skill set to not be making six figures. >> Yeah. >> So I think you got to bet on yourself and find that role where your skill set fits perfectly whether it's remote in person doesn't matter. But we need to start making a hundred grand if you want to not be >> That's right. >> struggling to find margin every month.

>> And and the I will tell you this in today's economy we are seeing the slowdown in the in the hiring.

>> And so I acknowledge that. But I will tell you that with your technology skill, um, you should be looking at not just any side job. You're looking for technology roles that are in your field are going to pay better. So, let's not just go get any second job that's bringing in money. Let's try to get the best. Now, what you're doing, I admire you. Let's let's band it at first, but we want this to heal. So, uh, contract

work in technology is the best chance you have to get paid. And again, it's not fun advice. Uh but your wife's got to find a way to work as well, something. And and and again, it doesn't mean she stops the homeschooling, but uh

we've got to free up some time for her somehow some ways that friends, family, whatever, for a season to get rid of this debt. And once we get rid of the debt, now we got a little bit more breathing room to the tune of $700 a month. And then hopefully you are making more. So, uh listen, it's a hard road, but it's a clear road. So, thanks for the call and you can get there. We're cheering you on.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

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Aaron is now joining us in Little Rock, Arkansas. Aaron, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, yeah, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. You bet.

>> Um, I started the baby step about two

months ago. Um, I'm a single mom of three boys and I have three jobs. Uh,

one corporate job and then two side gigs I do. Um, >> I have paid off about $5,000 in the last two months of my debt.

>> Great job. >> Super excited about that. Um, but looking forward, Christmas is coming.

Uh, and I heard on one of your guys' shows to set a a price limit um for each

child instead of, oh, you know, they'd like this, they'd like that. So, I'm trying to get a um opinion on what a

good price range is.

>> Oh, we get to decide >> how worthy these children are. This is a lot of a lot of power for Christmas gifts. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> And how much debt do you have left to pay off? Um, I've got just about 29,000.

>> Okay. 29K. So, at this rate, we're going

to knock it out, you know, by summer. Is that the goal? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the very latest,

the end of next year. >> Okay. >> Assuming, you know, nothing happens.

>> I feel like George should be George Claws on this cuz he's a little tighter, little cheaper than I am. I'm a little bit more generous. We just know this.

And >> I would get a little more frugal and creative. And Ken's going, "Just buy the thing they want." Do you know what they want? >> No, I wouldn't say that. Uh, but man, that's tough. How many kids?

>> I have three. >> How old are they?

>> They are 11, eight, and five.

>> 11, eight, and five. Boys, girls,

>> boys. All boys. >> Party. See, part of the problem is I'm out of that game. I don't know what an 11year-old and 8-year-old, and 5-year-old Are they wanting like motorized scooters? Like, what are they into these days? They want PS5s, which I've told them is not within my budget. And >> Oh, yeah. No, we're not doing that.

Certainly not plural.

>> Yeah, that's wild. That's a wild ask.

>> Um, well, I here, listen. Okay, I'm not trying to be a politician.

>> Do you have a number, by the way? I'm going somewhere with this. >> Do I have a number? >> What did you spend last year on them?

>> I have no idea.

>> Oh, well, that's probably >> because here's the thing. Kids don't understand the concept of what a thing costs. So if you were like, I'm spending $100 on each of you, they don't care.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's more about what did he get versus what did the other kid >> Did you go crazy last year? That's why you don't know how much you spent.

>> Yes. Yeah. I know. I've gone crazy every year. You know, I don't I haven't kept track of how much I've bought them for

Christmas. Um >> how much of this, if you can be honest, is out of just guilt for like what they've been through and endured?

Uh 90% probably. Yeah.

>> Okay. And is it working so far? Have you been able to just like buy their love?

>> I mean, no. No, obviously not.

>> Cuz the truth is you're an amazing mom regardless of a thing you buy them, right? That's right. >> Yeah. >> What's the number you have in your head?

Because you don't call us and ask a question like this without a number in your head. >> Yeah. Um I My absolute top is probably

like 500.

>> 500 total. >> Absolute top. But uh per child.

>> Goodness gracious.

>> The absolute top. But hence why I'm calling because I feel like >> I knew George was going to react. >> I tell you, my heart said a hundred bucks each, we're all going to have a great Christmas or do something that's an experiential thing where we spend 250 and it's like the day of their life. You know what I mean?

Like we're going to the arcade. We're doing Chucky.

>> I agree. I'll tell you something. This is an idea we got from a couple that was mentoring Stacy and I when we were younger and had younger kids and I thought it was great and and um and that

is the idea that biblically speaking Jesus got three gifts right that's and the idea was let's go less gifts >> and let's make those gifts significant and to George's point maybe an experience not money you know is there some type of fun experience or something we collectively do as a family right that's really special and you can explain to them but We did this early on because

we wanted our kids to appreciate the fact that you had one really really awesome gift and there was some really good gifts, but we were trying to take the value of all the things and and I

competing with my friends, what do my friends get? And we were trying to make it a little bit more central to the fact of what are we really celebrating at Christmas, you know? Is it just the gathering of things and we get down on Christmas morning and we just can't wait to see all the amazing stuff we got?

We've lost sight of what Christmas is about. And uh so I I'm with George. I

think $500 per kid in your situation is is nuts. It's too much.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm a little nuts though, you know. >> No, you're awesome. You're fine.

Well, you've got a generous spirit. And right now, we just It's a luxury to be that generous with where we're at financially. And the kids can't understand that right now. I don't think you need to go to them and be like, "Hey, mom's broke.

It's going to be a different like we don't need to be somber about it.

And that might kind of flip a switch in their brain.

>> Yeah. I mean, in the past, we've always done, you know, quite a few of what you want and then uh something you need and something to do.

>> And what if what if you did this? What if you said, "I'm going to give you something." And then on top of that, you're going to give something and it lets them flex some generosity muscle and you put that into the budget >> because I think that that will distract them from the thing and make them go, "Man, that was actually more fun to give that person $10 or $50 than it was to

get a thing." Uh Stacy did that one year with our kids. They all got really great gifts and they had to choose one that they had to give away. >> Oh, that's fun. >> And she took them down to the children's hospital and it was a great experience.

>> That's really cool. And it wasn't like like we didn't cheat for them and go here's a really ratty present and make it easy for them, you know? It was like something they had they felt it >> and that's a great idea and I forgot that she did that. >> Yeah.

And maybe it's one big like bigger gift that they can all enjoy all three of them. You know what I mean? But I don't think everybody needs their separate thing to feel special. I think we need to break that right now before it becomes a entitlement where they don't >> What did you say?

>> I feel like 100 a kid is fair. like 300 bucks all in. What is a PlayStation 5 going for these days?

>> A used one? >> I don't even know. >> I would see what Do you know what a used one goes for? >> I couldn't tell you. One of these nerds in the booth probably knows. >> Anybody in there? >> I I know a brand new one's probably 600.

>> 600 is new. You could probably find a used one for maybe 400.

>> I just know that like three little boys like that, a PlayStation that works.

That's pretty awesome. And if you can get it in that budget, then there's your Hey guys, here's what mom's doing. She's paying off debt. Here's what do I got you all this.

And that's the gift that keeps on giving. >> Yeah, I was right. It's You're looking at uh I see one for 250 out here on Facebook Marketplace. >> There it is.

250 for the used PlayStation 5. By the way, James just got into his laptop quickly. I don't know if he's getting one for himself. >> I might buy one right now off Facebook Marketplace.

>> Will the engineer, you have an opinion on this? >> Okay, go a scam. It's a scam. Wow.

to trust. >> It's 500 for a used one.

>> It's going for That's closer. It's 4.

Super helpful guy in the lobby giving me a lot of headshakes and thumbs up and down. Very helpful.

I don't think he knows. I think he's too old to look that up. >> Will, you're saying 500.

>> This is like Price is right. This is fantastic. >> We got the audience involved. All right, I see you, sir.

That's enough. Okay, go get a cookie. I would start uh exploring ideas, Aaron, and I would try to shy away from getting the expensive thing or getting them each a thing that will appease them because nothing's going to appease them. They're always going to want for more the next game, the next thing.

But here's the deal. Here's the narrative. Those guys are not too young to understand a mom's going through something tough >> and that she loves them and that their quality of life is still the same. I think it's okay to teach them.

I really do. They're gonna be okay.

thinking that I had it all. And as I grew older, George, I realized how poor My dad was a pastor of a small church.

We had nothing. And I thought life was great. >> You didn't know any better. >> I didn't know any better.

I had jeans with patches on them. You remember those children? >> Oh, yeah. >> Simpler times.

>> I thought it was normal. I thought everybody had patches on their knees. My final answer is let's do a dream day and each kid gets to do a thing during that day and we all experience it together and we keep it in the budget at 300 and we get creative and have some fun and they're going to remember that way more than a toy. Promise you that.

There it is. Final word from Georgie Claus.

gift that keeps on giving. Ho ho ho.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

All right, welcome back. Uh, this is really fun. From time to time, George, we get an opportunity because of the size of the show and uh Dave's friends, right? FOD's friends of Dave and we get

a chance to get some really special people in studio with us because they're doing great things and uh this is another one of those days in studio with George and I right now the one, the only, the icon Bear Grills, ladies and

gentlemen. So that's really fun. Bear, welcome. >> So kind. That's such a nice introduction. Thank you. >> Well, I got to tell you, uh, having talked to Bear, we recorded a show a little bit earlier for Front Row Seat. That'll be coming out. >> Looking forward to that. >> Bear could read the phone book and I'd be inspired. >> Yeah. How much of your success do you attribute to a great accent?

>> I don't know. Probably a little bit of it. I I think we all stand on the shoulders of giants. I think maybe that's one of them. Maybe it's one of the pillars. Yeah. I don't think I don't think it's the reason for it, but I think >> my name actually may be the name. Let's

be honest, you're rather handsome.

>> I'll take the comfort. >> I'm comfortable saying that. And then you throw in the accent. How do you how do you fail? >> Yeah. I know you got talent, character, you know, entertainment value.

>> You got it all, Barry. >> You're so kind. You like make anyone feel better. >> We're trying to. But, you know, you might be thinking he's here to talk about one of his newest shows. He's not.

In fact, uh this is a brand new book came out this week. It's called The Greatest Story Ever Told. And uh this is a fantastic book just came out this week wherever books are available. And I think this might surprise some. It won't surprise others who have followed your journey know that you are a man of faith. Uh what is behind what is this story and what's behind it? Well, it's

telling the story of Christ as a like a as a thriller, you know, just start to finish because I think so many people, myself included, you might not just like read the Bible, you know, if if if you have faith, the Bible obviously is like milk and honey. It's beautiful, but it's it's straight. It's, you know, and I think so many people I meet a have never read it, but also don't know the story.

You know, we tend to know stories maybe like the nativity or the crucifixion or the good Samaritan. And I just realized out of all the millions of books that have been written over the years, nobody's ever written the story of Christ just like as a short punchy thriller that that kind of introduces

people to the story of Yeshua is what I

call him in in in the book. So we take it strip it right back away from the sanitized version sometimes we get of of

of Christianity. And certainly that that's what I was brought up with. It's like we had to go to church as a kid at school and everything was in Latin and I just thought God speaks in Latin and he has white robes and generally looks quite angry, you know. And for me it's been a life journey realizing that the the the character of Jesus was just free and beautiful and radical and fun and everyday people just wanted to be with him and who's counterculture and turned everything else on his head and was healing and challenging.

the journey. I wanted to write it in a book. It's been to be honest the most

been the hardest but the best thing I feel I've ever done. I get more people responding to me about this than any TV show ever done. I've had I mean it we published it a few months in the in the UK and it went straight in at number one and I get messages all day every day from like people of every faith, every culture >> all around the world and they say the same thing basically which is I had no idea of the real story of Jesus

>> and as you know it it touches all of our lives. A real story like empowers our lives and is light and love and like I

say proudest thing I've ever done.

>> I love that. Well, I'm I'm curious. We end every Ramsay show with this line.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. So, we have an underpinning of faith at this company, and you've taken that everywhere you've went in Hollywood, in Netflix. H how do you sort of bring that faith underpinning into everything you do?

>> Well, I really like that. I think it was St. Augustine this said uh preach the

gospel of Christ every day in all places to all police people at all times where necessary use words.

>> Yes. >> And I love that. I think it's trying how we live our lives. A little kindness is you know the wild does it so often as well.

I think it's what I love about the show Running World I do is I get to introduce people to the great outdoors and that lights them up and that's like really is that not wrapped up in faith and everything and connection and friendships and having an understanding and a love of of each other and the outdoors as well. So I don't know I like that part of it but I I kind of think it's a shame if faith just gets boxed in a corner of our lives to Sunday.

And that was the Jesus that I got to learn about through this book. And we work with some brilliant theologians from the chosen TV show, from the Come and See Foundation, who have been incredible and supportive and encouraging for the greatest story ever told. But I feel like it's no longer my

book. I feel like it's out there and it's touching lives and I'd give everything else up in a heartbeat to have done this one. >> He's Bear Grills. He's hanging out with us here on the Ramsay Show. The new book is the greatest story ever told. Uh what I love about this is you did your homework. You you dug in deep with theologians and this is written in first person uh by five eyewitnesses. That

makes us really fun. Uh as you began to

construct the book that way, was there something that surprised you? maybe you didn't know as you began to put this together. >> I think just how human Jesus was. You know, we always get the idea of the and also how human the disciples were. I mean, I always thought the disciples were like old. You know, the average age of the disciples 15 to 25.

>> Wow. >> They were like just regular young guys, young girls. And so I wanted to write the greatest story from eyewitness accounts. So we start with Mary, his mother, just nervous, young, scared, have having a child out of wedlock, you know, becoming pregnant and and her journey of faith and and trust through

to Thomas who's super skeptical of this Yeshua who turns up on the scene and refuses to be persuaded by rumors and

miracles. And then it goes to this the friendship with this reckless impulsive fisherman Peter through very clinical sort of John and then eventually with Mary Magdalene who's just young and broken and just had her life healed by this guy. And so it's their interactions because I think all of us this story the greatest story ever told is all of our stories wrapped up in it. You know whoever we are whether we're the nervous or the excited or the scared or the broken he uh he affirms and heals

everywhere. And still to this day, we look at we're 2,000 almost 2,000 years

on and we're talking about him and he's changing lives and long may that continue. >> You know, it's interesting. This is a bold claim. This is a pretty bold title when you think about it to the cynics because we have a we have a wide audience. Some people are going, "All right, I'm an atheist or I'm a cynic or whatever." Uh what makes it the greatest

story in your mind? Well, if it's true, you know, this isn't like could be the greatest story ever told or potentially the greatest story ever told. If this is true, it changes everything in all our

lives, in all interactions, for all time. So, it's like that I stand behind.

This is if it is true, this is the greatest story ever told. And I feel that in my life, you know, I have many struggles and doubts still, you know, all the time. But through it all, ever since I was a young teenager and I prayed a prayer under a tree just saying, "Please God be with me. Amen." That was it.

A light was lit. It's never gone out. It's helped me through my time with the special forces as a young soldier, through the summit of Everest and many jungles, deserts, mountains over the years since.

It's been the great empowering presence.

And it's a privilege to be able to share it wider through this story.

>> That's beautiful. Yeah. Thinking about everything that you've done, I feel like you got to believe in God to be doing some of the wild things you've done. You got to have a higher power, you know, fueling that journey. Is there is there something that you have coming up next that you're like, "This scares me a little bit." Cuz you seem a guy who's fearless, who's ready for anything?

>> I'm not fearless. And uh I I have many,

like I said, really genuinely many struggles, many doubts. It's like the journey of life, isn't it? But I I love my job. You know, I still continue with the day job away from this. We've just finished uh filming season 9 of Running Wild, which is going to be great. But this is in my heart.

>> I love it. Well, I'm really inspired by the fact that you took this message using your gigantic platform and said, "This is what I want to put out there. This is more important than any show, anything I could be doing." >> Well, people always ask, they go, "What helped you on the summit of Everest or in these jungles or mountains?" And I don't want to stand up and say, "I did it on my own." Because I didn't. You know, I I need like a a human.

It's like a glove without a hand, >> you know. Without faith, we're just this limp thing, you know, but with that hand inside of ourselves, we can all live life. Uh >> thank you for being with us. The book is The Greatest Story Ever Told on sale anywhere.

You're a good man. Thanks for being with us. >> Thank you guys. Thank you.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you all are with us. We're having fun today as we take on your heavy questions. George is going to help you manage the money. I'm going to help you try to make more money. Let's get to it.

You ready to go, George? >> I'm pumped. >> Natalie is joining us in Sacramento.

Natalie, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I was just curious if my husband

and I should use part of our savings to start to pay off our loans faster or if

we should just keep that in the bank.

>> Tell us more.

>> How much do you have in the bank? >> My husband and I are both veterans. Um,

we have about 12,500

in savings.

>> Okay. And what's your debt situation?

Um, we have about $87,298

in debt. We have two student loans and a

new car and a credit card.

>> Okay. Give us those amounts. Walk us smallest to largest like we would be working through the debt snowball.

>> Yeah, the uh credit card is 1903.

So 1,93.

The student loan is 19581.

The other one is 20,978.

And then the car loan is 44836.

>> Woo. What is this car?

>> Yeah.

So, uh, it's a 2022 4Runner.

>> And what what is it worth? Kelly Blue Book value. Do you know?

>> I don't.

>> Okay. Wow. How many miles is it?

>> Um, just over 30,000.

>> And it's a 2022. All right. I'm going to do a little research, George. Okay.

While you do that, what is your household income?

Um, so our income is

I had this um

between the two paychecks is 4,960

and then we get VA disability and that's

about 4,080 4,90. >> Okay, good. So we have a great income here because you guys are bringing home >> Yeah. >> 9 grand. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. >> So, I think one thing that could alleviate this immediately cuz you're you're asking the best way to pay this off. Yes, you should use your savings except $1,000. That's the baby steps.

Baby step one, $1,000. Baby step two, attack the debt using the debt snowball.

So, anything that's not the $1,000 starter emergency fund, we're going to use to start knocking down this debt because that'll knock out your credit cards and a good portion of one of the student loans.

>> Yeah. And if I'm in your shoes and you really want to get out of the situation, I would just sell this 4ERunner. Now, you might be underwater on it, which is what Ken was angling at. >> They are. It's this is an estimate, and I don't have all the details of where you are in the market, but you're underwater. It's somewhere between 32 to $40,000.

>> So, that's your next homework assignment is figure out what you could sell this car for, private party value. So, you can go to kbb.com and and look at that to see, hey, if we could sell it for 40 and we owe 44, great. We're going to use 4,000 of the savings to clear the title and maybe use some of the other money in savings to get a different car, right?

You need something to drive around in.

>> Mhm. >> You're both working full-time.

>> Yeah. His truck is paid off, so it's just this now. My car died, so I had to get a new one. That's kind of >> Hold on. Hold on. Whoa. You didn't have to get a 40. You didn't have to get backwards. >> I know. You didn't have to get that car.

>> I know. I know. So, what's your what's your car payment?

>> Uh 60 wait $667.

>> All right. Just for fun, I want you to just, you know, figure out what that would do to your monthly budget. That's a lot of money. >> You would get an $8,000. That's a net raise. So, that's more like 11 or 12,000 gross. >> Yeah. >> So, imagine I just started giving you a,000 bucks a month. Would you go yip?

>> Yeah. >> That's what selling that car will do for you. And you have to look at it that way. Or else it's Ken and George are mean. They're not fun. They're telling me it's unrealistic.

>> Well, it's not.

>> But, you know, getting a piece of junk that gets you from point A to point B for this season of your life. This is for a season. This is not like forever.

Uh I I think that's huge for you. What caused you guys to want to actually turn this ship around?

>> Uh I've been listening to you guys on YouTube a lot the past month. So,

>> so we just got into your head cuz we didn't show up. You had to be kind of looking for >> We want to We want to move out of California and we want to eventually adopt and get a house and all that. And

I know we cannot do that with all this debt. We need to work on this debt now.

>> Good. Is your husband on board? Is he as fired up as you are? >> Oh, yeah. Completely. >> And you got the income. >> Completely. He's actually wanting me to spend more to to pay towards the debt

than we have been. But >> what's stopping it? >> That's >> uh I've been trying to build up our savings. I'm thinking about what, you know, putting money down on a house.

No, that's too far in the future. I know. I see that now. I see that.

>> Well, but you've been listening to us for a month. So, have you heard us talk about the baby steps? I I don't want to just assume anything. Okay.

I I and that's why I'm like, okay, well, I've done step one. Technically, I'm on step two, but I have part of step three, but I need to just stop and do it step by step. >> Well, you've got 125 in savings.

So, what what do we tell people to do if they've got $12,500 in savings and they have debt? What do we tell?

>> Pay it towards the debt. >> How much how much do we take out of that 125?

Well, I'm assuming it's going to be the 115. >> You got it. Tell her what she's won.

George, uh, raise to the tune of $1,000

once we sell this car. So, here's what I would consider doing instead of using the savings to pay down the debt. I would get out of this car situation first. And so, you might be underwater by a few grand. That's true. >> Let's let's use that to clean that up.

Then, we're going to take, let's say, another 6 or 7,000 and get yourself a used reliable car. Do a pre-purchase inspection. It's probably going to have a 100,000 plus miles on it. It's probably going to have some stains that you'd rather not see. But this is for a season. This is not your forever car.

This is like a year or two max as we get to a place of financial stability because you told me you want to adopt.

That's a big dream of yours, isn't it?

>> Mhm. >> You want to have your own place, your own house in a different state. That's a big dream of yours, isn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, that dream's bigger than a vehicle.

We can always get another car, can't we?

Yep. >> So, most of that savings uh or not most, but a good chunk of it's going to go to whatever this beater is, right? And I'm thinking a $5,000 car max.

>> That that clears half your debt. That's like cut your jail sentence in half an hour. That car payment now goes into the debt snowball. That's huge. You can make some real groundup, can't you?

>> Yeah. >> So, your husband's right. It's rare that we say this on the show. It's mostly the wife is usually right. And I've been married 27 years, so I'm conditioned to say my wife is right. But in this case, your husband's right. You need to be putting more into this. And you guys are rice and beans. If Dave were here, he'd be going, "You guys don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're waiting tables." >> And it's rice and beans, beans and rice,

and you guys are just absolutely on fire to get this out of your life. That same

intensity continues into that emergency

fund of 3 to six months. Now we can

begin to save for the house and begin to charge. >> Check this out. If you knock out this car, you got 42 left and you start throwing four or five grand a month at it. You're done with this in 8 months.

>> Woo! I like that.

>> So, this house is going to be a whole lot closer versus keeping this car around while it goes down in value. You stay underwater. I think this thing is is tanking your financial future. Get rid of it. You know what Bear Grills would say? What's that? Jolly good.

Spot on. Not quite. I'm working on it.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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[Music]

[Applause] >> All right, Gabe is up in Pittsburgh.

Gabe, how can we help today?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, basically I'm a first year uh college student. I uh I have $30,000 saved up from uh working in high school and I'm basically wondering what I can do for passive income with this saved money I have while I'm working in or while I'm in school right now.

>> So, first of all, good job to save up $30,000 from high school.

>> That's fantastic. And you're going to graduate debtree?

>> Uh yeah, my parents are paying for school. >> Nice. So, you want, if I understood your question right, you're asking us for our ideas on how to take some of the 30,000

and and create some passive income. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Correct. So, I'll just let this is what I've done so far, but I'm sure there's stuff I could be doing better. I have three grand in a Roth. I have 10 grand in the CD that's paying out 4% in a month. So, I'll get 400 on that. I have another 10 grand in a money market. And then I have seven grand in my savings.

You may not >> playing around with a little bit of stocks. >> Okay. Well, you may not like 500 bucks.

>> You may not like my answer and I can tell you Tik Tockers and Instagrammers will hate my answer and that's okay because I don't care. Um,

I have interviewed over my time here at Ramsey alone a lot of people that are experts in passive income.

And I will tell you that every one of those people, I'm looking at Will Ruer who's engineering today on the board.

He's heard me do a lot of these. Every one of them will told me there's nothing passive about what I'm teaching. The the

concept of passive income is I'm putting my money to work for me and I'm not you know we some people call mailbox money.

I like to joke about it. George has heard me say it a thousand times. Um

and and there's just not such a thing. So they'll at they'll go, "Okay, we know what passive income is and I'm an expert in it, but it's not passive. There's a

lot of work that goes into it or a lot

of work that is on the front end of it that then gets you to the place where it's a Tim Ferrris thing, George, where it's a 4-h hour work week or whatever.

And so I think of like a digital product. Um I created a digital product here at Ramsay. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. It's been very very successful.

It would meet the definition, George, of passive income in that people buy that all the time. uh while I'm sleeping, traveling, doing this show right now and it is being delivered off of a website with very little effort. Okay, that's the e. But there was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears on the front end of that.

So my answer is at this stage of your life because you're in school. I'd love to hear if you got a couple ideas and George and I can shark tank it, but my initial knee-jerk and George may disagree with me. George, my initial knee-jerk is to actually have you tell him how we would have him start investing that. what's the best way to invest that 30 and let's go ahead and get that working for us over the next three to four years uh because that's going to give us some better options.

I think you're in such a great place. That's what I'd recommend. George, is that too conservative? >> No.

And and Gabe, based on the way you're talking, you know a lot about, you know, finances and investing. You've done your homework. Uh now you're a little scattered. You got money all over the place and you're thinking about single stocks.

And so my fear for someone like you is you're on the precipice of losing your lunch because you go, "Oh, dude, I could get 10x my money if I put it in crypto maybe or you could lose it all tomorrow." So, it's your choice, you know, and so you get closer to gambling and speculation than you do investing. So, back to your question, passive income. I totally agree with Ken. >> Instead of asking how can I make money, ask what value can I create based on my passions and skills.

that's a digital product. That's a, you know, for me it was music. I did an album and I just got a sweet check for $10 this month, Ken.

>> Well, you know what? Let's go ahead >> work I did 10 years ago. >> Let's go ahead and plug the album cuz you did some hard work. >> Check it out on Spotify, Gabe. So that seriously, what's the album? >> It's called The Great Coward. I know. Truthfully, I was a musician. I passed lives. >> I know you were. You're a good musician.

>> And here's the thing, Gabe. I did that album and like Ford reached out to license the music on their YouTube channel and that made me more money than anybody streaming it on Spotify. that what I would do is go, what can I bring of value to the world, to people out there who have a problem? How do I solve that in a way that only I can do?

That's going to get you a lot closer than following a Tik Tok that says to buy a laundromat and buy an ATM and do leverage real estate, which I'm scared is what you're going to fall into if you continue down the path. >> Do you have an idea?

like the 300 bucks into the stock market

just because I I was new to it, but I haven't even thought about doing like a crazy amount or getting into crypto.

>> What's your goal? I'm >> not like too risk oriented. Uh I don't know. I mean, I'm I miss work is really what it is. I don't in school. I'm mad that I can't make more money, but I'm in school. I accepted it. I'll be working as soon as I'm done. >> What are you in school for? >> I'm in nursing. I'm in I'm a first year nursing student at uh University of Pittsburgh. Do you want to be a nurse?

>> I want to be a nurse anesthetist.

>> Great. So, this is part of the journey, right? >> Yeah, this is part of the journey. The first four. >> Also, is your are your parents cash flowing all of that schooling?

>> Uh, that's going to be pricey.

>> Uh, just just undergrad. Undergrad.

>> Well, that's what I'm getting at here. So, what's the graduate? >> I'm scared you're about to go 200 grand into debt postgrad.

>> I'm a little nervous. This call changed, which is good. I mean, you're what what's your plan? What is it going to cost you for your grad program?

>> Well, you need it. I after my four years, I would have to work for two years to get experience. I'd be getting a nursing salary. So, I'd be making money in those two years as I'm getting my experience before I can even apply to graduate school. >> Great. >> And then I should have a good bit saved up then. >> Okay. But >> And then also, >> but let's pause. How much I love this, but I want to get real numbers here.

What do you Because every grad school um

costs different. It's different. And a lot of times we get sucked in, we humans, to the to the uh sizzle factor

on a school when nobody cares. In fact, my wife just had knee surgery a couple weeks ago and I was with her when the when the nestist came in. And you know what, George? Neither one of us thought to ask where they went to school. So, what are you thinking? What's the cost that you're looking at that you've researched?

Um, for graduate school, it's probably uh looking at around 100 to 150,000.

>> All right. Now, here's the next question. Do you have the patience to work as a nurse for x amount of years to

be able to fully cash flow that?

>> No, you do not. And that's okay.

>> But here's the deal. I'm Yeah, it is a good question. Tell you why. Let me give you a little truth.

This is my challenge to you, George. I know this from coaching so many people, you know, who weren't happy and they want to get from point A to point B. Everybody, if I went on the street with a camera crew, you and I have done this before. And I said, "Hey, are you willing to do what it takes to get the dream job?" >> Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. >> And then I go like this. Are you willing to wait as long as it takes? And the answer cools.

And we just saw it with Gabe. Now, Gabe, that wasn't a gotcha question to make fun of you or to attack you.

>> Wait a second. Now, I'm going to give the baton to George. Okay, he's the anchor here. He's going to sprint home on this one. Walk him through why you

were afraid if he does what we just heard him say he's planning to do, which is take out a little bit of debt or some debt. Walk him through that. Well, Gabe,

you're going to take a, you know, a step forward and three steps back if you graduate with 200 grand in student loans

instead of a cash, you know, cash being cash positive, which you are now. And so the goal for me, for you is to stay in this position. And so now it is I that's why I was asking what your goal is because most people that are younger just go, I want to have a million by the time I'm 25. And I go, why?

They go, I don't know. I just feel like I'm running out of time. >> Yeah. >> And so you have time and you have a lot of skills.

You're a really sharp guy.

three years from now? >> Well, he needs a hundred cash flow.

Gabe, did I hear you right? You need a hundred, right? >> Yeah, about a hundred. All right. So, this 30, George, Gabe, this 30 sits in a

good account, >> like a high yield savings account, >> a high yield savings account because we're only needing 70 more. Now, in your

first two or three years as a nurse, if you're living like nobody else, the question is, can you save up the other 70? The answer is yes.

>> Yeah. >> George is a savings wizard.

>> George, he could make he could savings.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just a high. So the the thing with your CD is your money's locked in there until it matures to whatever month you know you're locked into 12 months.

>> And so if you're going to need this money >> four months >> four months. So high yield savings right now the rates are about three and a half%. If you want a great one go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They've been a great partner of ours. They have an awesome high yield savings account and checking bundle. Uh I would open that up and just start stacking away money. Working stacking away money.

Every summer I'm working stacking away money. I would not get on Robin Hood and choose some single stocks. I would not try to create passive income through a business right now. Use the skills you have. Do what work you can do and just stack that money in a high yield savings and cash flow college.

>> All right. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys.

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Today's question comes from Nicholas in Washington. My parents, adult siblings, and I are all on a family phone plan, but live in different households.

Everyone agreed to pay their portion to the sibling who is designated the account owner. A few years ago, I started paying the monthly bill to prevent recurring overdue bills and plan cancellations. Since then, that sibling hasn't paid their portion. And when another sibling found out, they stopped repaying their portion, too.

I can and have been paying for both siblings. What the heck? The remaining siblings and parents pay regularly, and everyone's aware of the situation to the point of joking about it at family reunions. I want to maintain good relationships by prioritizing family over finances.

But is there a gentle way to convey that they're taking advantage of me? Or should I use Dave's principle of gifting and not loaning money to family in this situation? >> Oh boy, Nicholas, you've become a doormat. >> Yeah, we we don't gift when we're resentful and we think it's going to put a band-aid on it.

This is not the spirit of giving. Uh I don't understand why you haven't just shut down the account and go, "All right, everyone, every man for himself. We're all grown adults. Let's get our own phone plans." They're not >> I went Why are we as adults on the same cell phone plan?

>> This is crazy. My parents adult sibl like this is just a toxic codependency and they're take of course they're taking advantage of it.

Hey, I tell you what really rubbed me the wrong way is that everybody jokes about it. >> They're all laughing at him.

>> Exactly. >> They're not They're not laughing with you. They're laughing at you. >> I think so. >> Yeah. I would uh I'd put a draw a line here and go, "Hey guys, I'm going to get my own phone my phone plan. I'm out. You guys can figure it out if you want to stay on this, but I am out of the situation." Jump on to Boost Mobile.

It's like 20 bucks a month. It's not that expensive to have your own phone plan. There's really no benefit here for everyone being on the same plan and different households. It's messy.

>> Yeah. Just this just the the the reading of the question showed you how complex this thing is. It shouldn't be complex

here to get >> I'm an adult. I have my own cell phone plan. My siblings, >> they're adults. They have their own cell phone plan. What are we even talking about here? Makes my head hurt. Joseph is up in Los Angeles. Joseph, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, my girlfriend/fiance

and I are planning to get married and we're wondering how to combine our finances. Each of us has significant assets and debts.

>> What kind of assets are we talking?

>> They're almost all real estate. Uh,

house, ADU, commercial building, raw land, and then some money in uh, uh, bank

accounts. >> Okay. So, you're wondering how do we combine this once we're married? What should we combine? How and when?

>> Yeah. And things like how do we treat bank accounts? And um we want your

advice on how to do it.

>> Well, what's the end goal here with all of the all these assets? Are you wanting to have them all paid off and in both of your names and build wealth together?

>> Um basically we're using them for our retirement. Um, we're we're older. I am

retired. Uh, she'll be retired in 5 years.

Uh, we need to live off the assets.

>> Okay. So, this income will go to both of you as one unit >> presumably.

Yeah. I was going to guess that's your advice. Yeah. >> Yeah. The simplest way, and this is what I did, is you have a checking account, she has a checking account. Correct.

>> Correct. I would transfer the money from her checking into your checking and make it a joint checking. And so her name would get added to yours.

>> And then same with savings. You have one high yield savings account and that's our emergency fund. Maybe we have another high yield savings account with both of our names on it. And that's for syncing funds and you know whatever it is, property maintenance and repair funds.

>> Oh >> when everything's split. >> Yeah.

Okay. So what I heard is two high yield hold accounts and one checking account all of them with uh both our names on them. >> Yes. And then with the assets, I would go, okay, do we want to liquidate any of these properties? Is one a nuisance?

Let's kind of combine all of our our playing cards here and then see what the next best move is. Cuz if the goal would be to get out of debt as soon as possible across the board.

>> The debt that we're in uh is 1.2 million

in debt. It is almost purely mortgage.

>> Okay. Because of these houses, right?

>> Yeah. And uh one of them's at a fabulous

interest rate uh 2.75.

>> Keep it till you die. Why even ever pay it off?

>> Exactly. >> There we go. I was just trying to get you to say that out loud. >> He was he he trapped you there.

I don't think you realized, Joseph. You walked right into it. >> My face was telling a different story. Now, here's the thing.

If you're listening to our show, uh we know that debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. $1.2 million. As she's trying to enter retirement, there's a lot of risk here.

and it might mean she works longer or one property, you know, takes a nose dive and there's some vacancy, there's a big repair.

>> I would personally want to simplify.

>> So, I would try to angle it as soon as we're married to go, how can we get rid of this debt in the next few years so that you can step into retirement with a whole lot of peace. How old are you?

>> I'm 64. >> Okay. I was wondering cuz you I thought I heard you say we want to live off these assets and and and you're not going to be able to live off of the rent. You know, we start looking at all the numbers here, it's not that impressive. It just rarely is. So, how much equity do you have in each of the properties?

>> Um, let's see.

There's uh there's a $5.5 million uh

commercial building that's debtree.

>> Woo! >> Oh, that's great. Uh, >> how much is that cash flowing? >> There'sund uh about 16,000 a month after all expenses than that.

>> I strike what I said because it's rare we have somebody tell us they have a cash commercial building. >> What's your total what's your total net worth versus hers?

>> Uh, mine's about 7.5. Hers is about 1

million. >> Okay. So, combined, we're already stepping into this with 8 million plus net worth with a great income. And so now we can just simplify and go, "All right, can we get rid of one and become totally debtree faster just to simplify our life, not have any payments?" Because you're still going to be raking in 20 plus grand a month >> once this is all said and done, right?

>> And oh, by the way, she's a teacher with a good retirement plan. >> Yes. >> Amazing. So, with the commercial building alone, I mean, what do you anticipate your monthly expenses are once you guys get married?

>> Uh, let's see.

I'm not talking about the I'm not talking about the debt. I'm talking about because right now we're we're the debt's kind of on the table where I'm headed. I'm just curious a comfortable life uh paying the regular bills. What

do you think you guys are going to need?

>> And taking the debt payments out of it.

>> Yes.

>> Uh give me a second here.

>> Carry the two.

>> Yeah. >> He's got his eras. There's some zeros on the end of this math problem. I think I think we'd be I think we'd be real comfortable on 12.

>> Right. So, >> I I'm just challenging you to go, okay, good on you with the with the uh commercial building. That's our that's what we say. That's what you're going to do.

Do it that way because now you do have 16,000 in cash flow and this thing's worth $5 million. You can unload it at any time. But >> if you only have that, you get to live your retirement dream. That's the only property you own.

>> But I would consolidate those other real estate pieces that have debt on them by selling them. I consolidate get rid of all that debt is what I mean. Not consolidate. I would get rid of the debt.

>> Yeah.

invest that and keep it simple.

>> Then you're really cruising. That's what I would do. Right, George? Am I wrong?

>> I mean, you're already on the path. You're just so close to being debtree.

It's sort of just a no-brainer to just simplify as you enter this new marriage as she enters retirement. Man, you guys will be sitting pretty with a bunch of paid for cash real estate. Dave Ramsey smiling somewhere right now. >> I love it. Good job, Joseph.

>> I hope this I hope this woman knows that she's got poor judgment other than you just being really wealthy. Close the deal, man. This is exciting. You guys are going to have a great life together and truly live like no one else. Get rid of the debt and live large.

[Music]

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[Music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal and uh boy depend on what headline

uh headlines you're looking at every day there's a lot of conflicting data out there can scare you can create a lot of doubt and uh this is a big decision so we want to make the u uh the big decision with a lot of good information and uh here are some of the latest trends median home prices dipped a bit last month to 426,000 That is typical as we head into the fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers are facing more competition. Mortgage rates dip slightly uh in September and I will tell you just yesterday uh we saw a dip this week.

you know what is that going to do? If they keep dipping a bit, people are going to start rushing back in to try to get a better rate and that can make prices go up. So now might be a great time to get in. Uh, if you're ready to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, we got you covered. Go to ramseolutions.com/market.

That's ramseyolutions.com/market.

Joel is joining us now in Fairfax, Virginia. Joel, how can we help today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are you guys? >> We're having a blast today. What can we help you with?

>> Well, let me This is more of a whatif question. So, I know that when you buy a

new car, it loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot. My question is, what about restored classic muscle cars?

Uh, my dad had one grow when I was growing up and I have to do some research and I found that those have grown huge in in value. And so, um, I

was kind of toying with the idea. I have a paid for 23 Bronos Sport. If I traded

it in and got something that grows in value, would it help with net worth? And if it helps, I have numbers in front of me if you need those. >> Yeah, give us some of the numbers.

>> All right. I will be 56 in December,

single, never married, no kids. I make 95,000 a year. I'm on baby step four. I

unfortunately got a late start, so to play catch-up, I'm setting aside 25% of my pay. Uh net worth is about 194,000 uh

including the Bronco Sport, 25 grand in a high yield savings, 4.1%.

Uh 750 uh in checking because I just paid the bills. Uh another,000 in savings, and then I've got two 401ks that together are just north of 143,000.

Uh I'm renting because housing is just too crazy expensive. And I've moved so many times it just never made sense. So that's pretty much it. And what is your your goal? To retire by a certain age

with a certain amount of money?

>> Well, at this uh with the numbers I have and at this uh stage in life, I honestly

don't have any plan on retiring. I'm just going to keep working until I pretty much can't. Um I know in the past

I've heard, you know, quote unquote, no new cars until you have a million dollar net worth. With my numbers, I don't know when I would ever hit that number. So, I don't know if you guys can calculate that. I don't I don't know how you'd figure that out. U in your shoes, the

the basic question, should I invest in a

classic muscle car? No.

>> Okay. >> Under no circumstances would we consider that an investment. It's a liability disguised as a hobby. And maybe it grows in some value if you store it and maintain it perfectly. But I would not sell your perfectly good car. It's you've it's paid for the Bronco.

>> Yes. And you're going to sell that to get a muscle car that you would then drive as your vehicle.

>> Yeah. I mean, I'm not actively considering it now. It was just a a what if question. So that's what I'm asking.

A second opinion. >> Well, but in the what if it and to George's point, I didn't think that you were going to drive it. I thought you were thinking about maybe flipping these things because >> Oh, no. No. This would have been my driver. >> Well, but that's going to hurt its value. >> Um, you're talking about >> something else. I thought about >> these cars. These cars that get I did

some research while George was talking to you. >> Um, a 1962 Shelby Cobra, which is an

absolutely phenomenal machine. My gosh,

I couldn't help myself. James, uh, I love old cars. Um, >> uh, sold for a record 13.75

million, but it was the first Shelby Cobra ever made and was owned by Carol Shelby. So, I'm giving you the extreme here. to to back up George's point. Um,

and you know, if you look at here's another one. Um, a 1970 Plymouth Hemi

Cuda convertible believed to be the only surviving Canadian export version. Sold for 2.7 million. So, that's a lot less than 30. So, they have to have like, it's not that they're just in good shape at that kind of level, George. They have to be extremely rare like a rookie baseball card of like a Babe Ruth and it doesn't ex you know. So George is right.

I just want >> It's a luxury. It's a luxury hobby for people that can afford to put the money into these. >> Well, they're putting a ton of money into it. >> Even if they lose money on it, they're just happy because they're car people, >> but it's a daily driver.

And again, I'm I'm in the long process, good lord, it takes forever of restoring a 1972 convertible Volkswagen Carmen Gia. And she's she's she's a cherry. She's a be, but it takes a lot of work. And I I'm not going to tell you how much I've put into her so far.

And George knows I just got a quote to finish the interior and I it was a little steep. And at this stage I'm going I don't know if I want to do that. >> Ken clutched his pearls when he saw that. >> Yeah.

Well, but I I knew I didn't think it was going to be that much. But I I'm going to drive that from time to time with Stacy when the weather's really nice. And right now it's like ah I'm going to get several other quotes and see if I can get that down a few thousand. All right.

beating this thing to a pulp because you

can get really feverish about a about an old car, but is it a great long-term investment? Uh, no. It isn't a great one. And it's only a good investment, George, if you are flipping these cars, right?

To where you again, you have the knowhow. And at that point, you got to hang on to them for a pretty good while for them to appreciate in value over time. Um, not if you're flipping, but if you're gonna fix them up, you know, if you're restoring old ones. >> That's what I'm saying.

That's the only scenario where if you've got the equipment, you got the knowhow, which takes a lot of cash flow to even do that. >> It does. So, in your in your shoes, Joel, I would rather see you get into a house and stabilize your housing costs cuz in the meantime, rent's going to keep going up. >> And so, if you're you're 56, I would love to see you have a home by the time you retire, uh, to where it's not crippling you financially.

So that becomes the goal. You have a great income. You're you did get a later start, but if you're good to work for the next decade, you can build some serious wealth.

>> You know, the average home price is over 400,000. If you wait another five years, it could be 600,000.

>> Oh yes. Well, where I'm at is half a mill already. And I'm just like >> Exactly. So that's why I would I would dial back your investing to 15% and then use that extra cash flow every dime you can to throw into a high yield savings account and within the next three years work up a down payment and get yourself into a home.

>> Okay. >> And the car dream I think is a cool dream. I would just separate it from well two birds one stone. Get a cool classic car. Drive it around. It becomes my retirement. That's a that's a fool's errand. >> It's a it's a fun car and I think you can get one. I have to ask, if you had the money, what are you buying today?

What is this classic mobile that you would be uh driving around in?

>> Uh well, uh the guys in all the men in my dad's side of the family, we were big Buick guys. Um and so I was looking at

probably a 71 or 72 GS convertible.

>> Um something along those lines.

>> Yeah. >> So, um >> have you looked into what those cost in decent shape? I'm just curious. I found a couple between 30 and 40,000. My father had a 1970 model. I've seen those go for anywhere from 80 to 130,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Well, >> I thought I'm going to aim a little lower. >> Yeah. But here's the deal. Down the road when you get financially able to do it, you know, uh might be a fun nostalgic

thing, but again, you got to treat it like any other car in the way we treat it. So, uh thanks for calling. That's really interesting stuff. Yeah, George.

you know, uh, boy oh boy, you can get, boy, you can rack the expenses up with a

with an old car. You just can. It's It's a premium service. It truly is a hobby.

I don't think many people have made it a quote unquote business or an investment and sometimes you get lucky and you bought at the right time and it went up in value or you had the the funds to really invest into it and you found the right buyer at the right time. But man, I would much rather stick to the stock market so I can retire one day. Yeah, absolutely right. But would you uh do you see yourself in an old car one day when you're in your 70s?

>> One day, you know, I watch I watched Father the Bride and Steve Martin tooling around in that car made me go, "That's what I want one day." >> See, now sign me up. >> I see. You know what? When I get the old Gia done, I'm going to teach you how to drive a stick.

That's what I have to start with and then let you drive it.

>> No. No. >> No idea, folks. No idea. My car drives itself at this point.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside George Campell, I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you are with us. 88255225

is the phone number. Jeremy is up in Dallas, Texas. Jeremy, how can we help?

>> Hello. Well, thank you guys very much.

Um, I just wanted to ask, do you guys think college students nowadays have a better chance of being just as or more successful than our parents in today's world? And I asked this because as a college student myself that's about to graduate um with no student debt. Uh I

have $50,000 saved and I have a job lined up fortunately but unfortunately of the state uh I live in and away from family. I'm nervous to move out and I know a lot of people my age and this situation feel the same way. Um but I

know a lot of people are nervous and don't know if they can move out financially. Um but do you think people in today's world um

have the same chance that our parents did and also people in my situation?

What can you give to them um that don't

know if they can move out financially?

>> Well, you do have the same chance. I don't think, you know, you get into a crazy game if you start going, well, what are the chances back in the 60s and, you know, uh, and that probably seems like ancient history to you. Um, but no, I I think I think

college students have the same exact chances of being successful. I think they have some things that are going in their favor. I think that older generations, you might be able to say, well, maybe they had a couple advantages because of this. Um, but the one that

sticks out to me, George, is the student loan issue that just was not a handicap to people that are older.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, but in your case, Jeremy, you you're the asterric. You don't have any debt.

Um, so I think uh the the the second question is the one that we can tackle.

Um, and that is how do you overcome this

barrier to entry? this thought process

that uh I can't live on my own or I can't move away. Uh George, you want to tackle that one first? I've got thoughts, but >> Oh, yeah. So, what what was your what's your job situation right now?

>> Um well, I'm from Dallas, but I have a job offer in a separate state away from family. Um I would get a stipen to take

the position and move out. Um, I'd also get a free vehicle and entry uh salary is 65,000 before

>> 65,000 with a car and what's the

stipend?

>> Uh, 10,000.

>> I mean, bro, >> I don't And what what is your actual fear here? Cuz there's not a math problem. Are you wondering, can I afford rent?

>> Uh, I I would prefer not to rent but more of a mortgage. Uh >> why would you jump into a mortgage right out of college in a city you have never lived in? >> What's the rush?

>> I I I guess it's just because uh my dad

he has always told me not to rent. And I guess that stuck with me head.

>> So dad said renting is a waste of money, son. You should become a homeowner.

>> Yeah. >> And that's the in the back of your mind.

Dad is not going to be proud of me if I rent. >> Yeah. and he's going to be telling me how much I need to get into a house every time I talk to him.

>> Yeah. >> Is he covering your down payment?

>> Uh, no. My uh girlfriend's mom if she

would be willing to uh go out with me, but if that's not the case, she would not like to move in. >> Okay, Jeremy, this entire call you have sounded like somebody who's way ahead of the game and on top of it. And then you just threw the ultimate curveball.

You're considering buying a house with your girlfriend's mom?

>> Yeah. >> Does that sound in any way risky to you?

It's true. I'm just trying to be serious. Do you think that sounds smart?

>> No, not necessarily. >> Have you told your mom and dad that you're considering this?

>> I have. >> And what' they say?

uh they trust her a lot and they uh really like the family and um if she's willing to do that, they were fine with it.

>> Okay, I'm going to bring George in cuz George loves to tell horror stories.

George, let's fast forward.

>> Let me crawl under the desk. Get my jaw off the floor real quick. >> I got to tell you, Jeremy, this is absolutely ridiculous that your parents haven't freaked out over this. Your parents are good people. >> Are you trolling us, Jeremy? Are you trolling us? Oh. Is this a fake call?

>> No, I'm not. >> All right, George. Where's this go?

Let's Let's say the girlfriend take us down the all the things that could go wrong. >> I'll play this out. You're going to call us in a year and here's going to be the call. I sunk all of my money into buying

a house with my girlfriend's mom and we just broke up. What do I do? She wants to keep the house. >> Mhm. >> Or I want to keep the house.

>> Do you see where this is going? It's going to get messy real quick. You and her, you're not even the girlfriend, which we would tell you is stupid. This is the girlfriend's mom, which is next level stupid.

>> Already planning to live with your future mother-in-law is just a bad plan relationally.

So, here, Jeremy, here's what I would do. If I could >> not funny, I got to tell you, I don't think anything about this is funny. If I waved a magic wand, you would move out, take this job offer, rent, maybe even get a roommate or two to help you stomach the the finances and just learn

to live on your own for a little while.

Rent for a year or two, keep stacking up that down payment with this new salary you have. And then a year or two from now, you have $100,000 saved, and that's actually a decent down payment, uh, you know, on the cost of a home these days.

And so once you get into that, do a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. that's going to allow you to pay off that home really early and then you're going to be financially free at a very young age. But if you shortcut it, that scares me because you're gonna fall flat on your face and you are off to a great start. Here's what I don't understand. I thought you said you were moving away from where you live.

>> Yeah, I I would be. >> So, where does the girlfriend's mom come into the equation?

>> Uh, they live in Tennessee.

>> That's where you would be moving.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Oh, you're moving to be in the same place as your girlfriend.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And the job offer is there.

Um, so I I kind of thought of it in this way as more of like a a way around things so that I wouldn't have to >> there's not no >> you think this is a way around something

to whatever not pay rent be smarter with

your money. This is a way into a massive, massive pond of scum and

disgustingness and danger and all kinds of stuff. You don't even know if this girl is the one for you, do you?

>> You're absolutely right. >> Well, then what are you thinking? We don't even know if we want to marry her.

I tell you what, if you were young, you're my younger brother, I'd reach to the phone and cuff you right upside the head because this is crazy talk.

You are too smart for this. You got a great job, no debt, a stipend, a free

car. Just go date this girl and let's see if she is the one, right? And then let's kind of check these boxes off. I

mean, this is craziness to me. You know,

like it's And by the way, I'm I'm being fun. James the producer looks like he's like he's going to swallow a frog. I I wouldn't violently hit you. I'm just saying like I'm trying to go snap out of this. like this is somebody needs to kind of grab you and shake you and go this could be a horrible horrible mistake. >> All right, >> here's the TLDDR. Just slow down.

>> You've done such a good job and now all of a sudden you want to go 90 miles an hour and you're going to get in a wreck if you live your life this way.

>> So just rent for a year or two or three.

Who you're how old?

>> Uh 22. >> Let's play this out. >> Oh boy. At 25 you own a home. You know the average age of a homeowner in today's world? No, >> it's like 38 years old. So, you're already so far ahead of the curve.

You're already so more successful, so much more successful than most Americans who are retired, who are broke. So, if you just keep this up, live your life debtree, rent on your own, get a house when it makes sense, and don't do it with anyone else unless you're married to them. That's the key, man. Good luck.

[Music]

[Music]

Two weekends, George. Not one but two.

Two weekends are on sale now for money and marriage getaway. It's three incredible days with your spouse here in Nashville. Learning the tools to strengthen your connection and deepen your intimacy. Join Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz in November or February.

Early bird pricing is available now.

Tickets start at $749 per couple. You

can get those tickets for the lowest price before they end at ramseyolutions.com/getaway.

ramseyolutions.com/getaway or you can click on the link in the show notes and um uh it's popped up on my schedule. I guess I'm going to be at the November and February. >> I did see you on the lineup. Very excited. I might come see your talk. It looked like a good one. It was Can I tell them what it is? >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. It was how to win at

home. >> Love how love and work. Home and work.

I'm >> something like that. It was kind of like a how to win at work without losing your your life at home. >> You know what my speech title is. I just know what I'm talking about.

>> I need that. It's a good sort of work life marriage balance talk >> because you know a lot of people want to crush it at work and then their marriage suffers. >> Well, it's not a traditional talk. George, you're going to like this.

>> Oh, and um and it's about, hey, my

spouse is a workaholic. How do I support him? Or he feels lost? You know, it's that kind. So, I'm taking some of the biggest questions, the ones that have been submitted the most, and I'm teaching to those questions.

>> I love that. So, very practical.

>> Very fun. And I'm told, uh, Mrs. Coleman might be making an appearance at the February one. >> Whoa. That's something to show up for.

>> I tell you what, to know Stacy is to like her. >> That's worth the price of admission to see Stacy Coleman. >> I'm telling you right there. So, there you go. Should be fun. Let's go to Tracy in Houston, Texas. Tracy, how can we help? >> Hi. Um, thanks for talking with me first off. Um, I have a situation going on to

where we have a lot of credit card debt

and just making the minimum payments.

Uh, we're kind of having to um teeter

between groceries or paying all the minimums. And I'm wanting to start the

snowball rolling, but I don't have the extra money to put toward any of the smaller bills. And I was wondering if there was something that y'all could a suggestion or advice that y'all could give me to to help get that started.

>> Well, the magic wand here is we need to make more income to have more margin.

Now, we can cut expenses, too, when you probably should, but it sounds like there's an income problem. How much do you guys make a month?

>> Um, a month we make about uh $4,700.

>> What are the credit card minimums?

>> Oh my goodness. Uh, just the minimums are almost $1,200.

>> Okay. And you can't do that and cover the rest of your bills. What's your Do you have a rent or mortgage?

>> Uh, we have a mortgage. Um, it's for $900 a month.

>> Okay. So, that's not the problem.

>> Right. >> What got you into all this credit card debt? >> Well, my son lost his job and he's he's grown adult. Um, he was staying with us or he still is uh staying with us. Um, so he's helping pay, you know, uh, bills

and all those kind of good things. Um, but he's actually looking to move out and so I was like, I need to get this.

>> No, but what cause how much credit card debt total do we have? What's the balance? >> Um, total credit card is 29,000.

>> What got us into 29,000 of credit card debt? I don't think it was your son.

>> No, no, no, no. Um I am undiagnosed uh

shopaholic and um I'm working with a therapist on that now. >> Oh wow. >> Um so it's just been uh we would max out

credit cards, get more credit cards, max those out and get more. >> Have you stopped the bleeding? Because we can't help you at all unless you decide I'm done borrowing money.

>> Oh yes. >> So have you cut up the cards?

I'm actually thinking about closing the accounts and I was like going to get your opinion on that as well. >> Cut them up. Close them. You still have the money. >> Cut them right now on the air. >> Yeah. Do you have them with you?

>> I don't.

>> That's that's unfortunate. >> More than happy to cut them up. >> Have you Have you done a a freeze on all of your credit?

>> Um yeah, on my the credit bureaus.

>> Yes. >> Yes, I have. >> So, nobody can take out debt in your name, including you, without jumping through some hoops. >> Okay. What's what other debt do you have outside of the 29 in credit cards?

>> Um I do have um 11,000 in loans.

Um >> just personal loans.

>> Yes, personal loans. >> Okay. >> Um and then the rest of it is just our

monthly, you know, just our regular monthly bills, electric, gas.

>> Okay. So, no more debt outside of that.

You got 40,000 in debt plus you got the mortgage, >> right? >> All right. And are you both working full-time? >> We do. All right. So, who's making what?

Because right now I'm seeing about a take-home pay per year about 56 grand.

>> Yeah, it's um I make about 30,000 a year and he makes about 32,000 a year.

>> Why are the income so low? What are you guys doing for work? >> Um well, we work for the county and so

the pay is lower but the benefits at the end if you retire with them are greater.

Um, for example, >> we're not going to live long enough to see the benefits if we can't eat.

>> I know. Um, >> when we have collectors knocking down our door, taking us to court. So, screw the benefits. You guys need to go double your income, >> right? Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, during the

tax season, I do do um I prepare taxes

and so that does bring in some extra that I'm wanting to throw at it.

>> Are you an enrolled agent? Do you have some qualifications there?

>> No. No, I'm not an enrolled agent. Okay.

I'm just wondering. I think you could go, you know, do that and make double tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> You know, okay, let me just interject real quick there. You need to create some type of a visual, an exercise to

where we identify what is it that I can do >> right now to make more money and just begin to create a possibilities list.

George just gave you a really great suggestion there, but you have got to be able to see in order to believe that you

can actually make more money. We've got to get that income up. And we can't be doing things that are like um prospecting. Well, if I spend this and I do this, then I might be able to make this. It's like, no, I need to exchange time for money right now.

>> Right. >> And so, to to your question, I want to make sure I answer it. You don't have to juggle between do I make the credit card minimums or food. You always cover your four walls first. And if the credit cards don't get paid, they don't get paid. So four walls are food, utilities,

housing, transportation. And we're talking bare bones. This is not, well, I guess we're going to eat out instead of making the minimums. No, this is what do we need to survive right now? How can we cut all of our expenses down to the bone? And then we'll get to the credit cards once we can create enough income and create enough margin to start to climb out of this.

>> Okay, that sounds that sounds good.

That's kind of where I was going. And that might mean some of them go to collections and you're going to have to deal with that later. And so you're just kind of kicking the can down the road.

But you got to eat first. And so I don't care how much they're calling you, hassling you to make your payments. If you can't make it, you can't make it.

>> Okay. Okay. And then the the actually

closing of the accounts is not I mean, would that be okay? Because I know myself that I would just call and go, "Oh, well, I lost my card." You know?

I mean, why are you saying you're going to go back into debt? >> She's saying it's possible. >> No, that's what I'm trying to I'm trying to alleviate any possibility.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. >> Yeah, you should close the accounts, freeze your credit, the whole nine yards. Put up some accountability.

>> Cut up all the cards. And then that's a line in the sand saying, "I'm done. I'm never borrowing a dime on these cards again." >> Okay, great. >> And they're probably going to offer you some deal to try to stay. Just say, "Nope, I'm done. Cancel, cancel, cancel.

I'm done." And you're still, of course, going to owe on on those accounts, but at least you can't rack up any more debt, and they won't send you offers for more line of credit to bless you with.

>> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I mean, like, I'm glad you're you're seeing a therapist, but I would get advice from the therapist on who can be in your life from an accountability standpoint. Uh, boy oh boy, you're going to have to take some extreme steps here, but you can do this, but you got to sit

in the pain long enough to go, "Oo, I don't ever want to experience this again." So, whatever pain I'm trying to take care of with the shopping, oh boy.

Uh, I I that I don't want to deal with that because it's creating more pain that I am not enjoying and you're feeling it right now. So, I appreciate the call. Glad you called us. Uh, final thoughts, George, on this?

I mean, you can try to at least call and negotiate your interest rates down for now to alleviate some of the pain and let them know, hey, I can't pay this. It's simply too much. The interest is racking up too fast. Can you work with me?

[Music]

[Music] [Applause] [Music] All right, we're going to go out into our lobby where Lexi is standing on the

debt-free stage. Good afternoon, Lexi.

How are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Good. Where are you from? >> I live in Melbourne, Florida. About an hour from Orlando. >> Oh, it's a lovely place. All right. Very nice. And I guess you're here to do a debtree screen. That would be the assumption. All right. Great. All right.

Give us the numbers. How much did you pay off? >> I paid off $56,569

in student loans in a year and a half.

>> Wow. A year and a half. That's getting with it. And what was your range of income? >> 120,000. >> Okay. And what do you do for a living?

I'm a project manager for a corporate job and I also dog sat on the side almost every single weekend and drove Uber every time I wasn't dogsitting.

Nice. Okay. >> Which one's more lucrative? Like what what was your rates?

Like what were you pulling in per hour so people can understand what they could be making? >> Yeah, dogs sitting I mean other the corporate job made the most money but dog sitting was the most especially if there's multiple dogs. Um and I stay in the dogs house. Give us an idea what So you would show up on a Friday night after work and and you baby uh you dogsit I said babysit you dogsit all through the weekend.

Is that what a normal thing would be? >> Usually sometimes it's the whole week as well. My corporate job. >> How much would you make?

>> That's pretty good dough. >> That's not bad. And it's not like a lot of hands-on work. You got to be there, make sure they're fed, make sure they get out, but it's not like you're hustling like an Uber or Instacart.

>> And you can leave them. You can't leave kids. So dog sitting is so the dog isn't

going to throw a fit and cry and all that stuff. Dogs happy to see you every time. >> And dog owners like me are happy to pay knowing someone wonderful is taking care of them the way. >> Isn't it extraordinary how much we Americans spend on our dogs?

>> It's insane. But hey, it helps people become debtree. >> I love that. Okay. And then how many hours on a given week during this process of getting out of debt? It's a year and a half were you driving? How many hours a week on Uber?

>> Uber was about 3 hours in the evenings or I'd drive into late at night on weekends if I wasn't dogsitting.

>> Wow. So you didn't have >> maybe like 10 hours a week. >> You didn't have much of a life is what we're gathering. >> I moved to Florida two years ago when I started the journey. So my life was basically paying off the debt. And now I finally have community and friends. What

happened a year and a half ago to start this intense journey?

>> I was new to Florida, just got an apartment down there and renting and I felt like I was drowning in the student loans and I was thinking about what job I wanted to do and I was like, I can't leave this job. I need to pay off the debt and my parents recommended the Ramsay program and by the first video Dave was so motivating. I was like, I got to go gazelle in. >> Wow.

So only one video and you're all in. >> Yeah. >> So did you miss out on life?

>> Yes, for sure. I missed a friend's bachelorette trip. Um, one Christmas I didn't buy anyone gifts. Thankfully, they didn't care that much.

>> But you just got to be honest with your friends and your family is like, "This is my goal. I'm going to go hardcore for at least a year. Took me a year and a half. Um, I'll meet you next year on the next trip." >> And they were all like, "Okay, cool." Like, "Are you still friends with the girl group?" >> Right. Like no one's going to disown you. No. >> Wow. Wow. And they still You're still invited for Christmas?

>> Yes. >> I got to say >> that's impressive. >> Um that's a controversial move right

there. Like the internet would have We don't care what the internet says, but boy would they have an opinion on you not going You were You would have been a bridesmaid. Is that right? Did I catch that? >> Or did you just not go on the trip >> or the trip? The Yeah. >> Oh, it was just a trip. You weren't did not You weren't saying no to being a bridesmaid, >> right?

>> I love it. >> That's Is this you at the wedding? And we have the the >> Oh, there we go. What is this photo?

>> This is just me and my That's I went to a meetup group in Florida and we made bouques and that's where I met some of my girlfriends. >> Oh, that's fun. So, there is life on the other side of Gazelle Intensity. That's what we need people to hear.

>> Yeah. And that was a free event. So, just know that you can go and do free stuff. >> How'd you find like free events and things like that?

>> Like Facebook groups. >> Okay. >> You and George are like, >> "Yeah, >> you guys might love a free activity." >> Yeah.

>> I enjoy it more because when I pay for an activity, I'm going, "What does this cost me per minute to enjoy this thing?

This is a ripoff." >> Yeah. Yeah. I can't get George to come out with a bunch of guys and just have a nice poker night. >> You couldn't pay me. >> He's at home on Facebook playing Words with Friends because it's free.

>> So you guys, >> if I lose, at least it's not in front of my peers.

>> So, uh, walk us through maybe what was maybe one of the most, you know, tough times. Was there a tough time for you?

It was a low moment and you pressed through. Get take us to that moment.

>> Yeah, again the time where I didn't have any friends yet in Florida and I was driving Uber. That's actually how I got a lot of my socialization since I work from home. I would talk to people in the car. The hardest part was showing up at the cruise port above Melbourne, Florida. I would drop people off for their cruises and I was like, "Oh, I just want to jump on the ship and go with them." >> Wow. You know what? You can go on the Ramsay cruise in 2027.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. All right. There you go.

That's something to look forward to. Well, you're impressive. Do you have any cheerleaders along the way that were like, I'm with you. I'll be here to cheer you on.

>> Absolutely. My parents have been a huge help. They're the ones that recommended the program and they're also they're just paying off their mortgage now. They should be done by the end of this year and then they'll be totally debtree.

Who basically >> did you sort of like kick their butt a little bit to put it in high gear when they saw you paying off debt? They're like, "We got to get on it." >> Yeah.

And I got it. >> And you made it. Take that, mom.

>> Bragging rights. I like that. I guess they're going to be watching this uh later. That's so fun. All right. What is

the key in your opinion, your journey?

What would you tell people the key is to getting out of debt? >> You have to get mad at the debt. Like get so frustrated at the money. Not at yourself. I'd say forgive yourself and move on. But as Dave motivated me, is

like the borrower slave to the lender. And you just have to get mad and do it motivates you to do anything you can to throw money at it. >> Wow. So make debt the villain, not the person in the mirror and carry the guilt and shame and go, "Of course you got us into this mess." Instead, go, "Hey, debt, you're next. You're a thief. I'm coming for you." >> That's impressive. So, what's next for you? >> Next, um, I would like to travel more since I haven't vacationed in a while.

>> Yes. >> Um, my family doesn't know it yet, but I'd like to pay for them to travel as well. I just want to do an all expenses paid thing and I want to continue to help ladies uh with their emotions and finances as well. >> That's awesome. And what do you do for a living? >> A project manager. I also do uh life

coaching on the side for ladies in their 20s to 40s. >> So here you are, you're how old?

>> 30. >> You're 30 years of age. You're debtree.

You have a very good job. Project managers who are talented. They can go a

lot of different directions. We see them all the way up to sea suite. There's just so much you can do with that experience and you're still very very young. Uh what is it emotionally feel

like? How would you describe it to people that this is here you are on the debtree stage? This is the finish line for you and before we hear you scream, what has been that emotional reality for you >> of being debtree? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It feels like a weight's been lifted off my shoulders and just knowing that no money is automatically going to come out of my account anymore and I don't have to worry about um can I make a couple extra hundred dollars here and there. It's just so much more peaceful.

I feel like I sleep better. >> And George, she's on the path. What would you say? Uh knowing what you know her income, she now steps fully into she's in baby step four. She's going after it. Uh what what does it look like a path to being a millionaire for her?

>> Oh my goodness. Well, are you already investing that 15%? Are you at that stage? >> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. So from 30 to 60, even that 30-year period of just investing 15% of 120k, say you never get a raise,

you're already going to be a multi-millionaire. And so that's the good news. And so what you get to do now, especially at this age, you get to start dreaming big of like what do I want? Where at 35?

Where am I going to be at? 40. And so I'm just so excited for this path, especially because you got it so young.

Once I got someone else to do this with, it'll be easier." And you went, "No, I'm going to do this on my own." >> I'm so proud. >> Can I just say, don't marry a dud.

>> You've worked too hard.

>> No, dud. Stay away, duds. You're too sharp. No one. No, no, no, not at all.

You've done so much good work. Okay, this is really fun. Let's get right to it. Lexi is here from Melbourne, Florida. Uh, she paid off 56,500

and something something something. She knows in a year and a half making

$120,000. Take it away, Lexi. Let's hear your debtree scream. >> Can you help count me down? >> Sure. You ready? Three, two, one.

>> I'm debtree.

>> Yeah. Oh, there you go. I love it with

the assist, by the way. I've never done an assist before. I like that as an alleyoop. I got to tell you, I got nervous, James. It was a lot of pressure. I thought I hope Ken can count down from three. Hope he remembers how to do it. >> Believe me, I struggled there at first.

A lot of pressure. Way to go, Lexi.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

scripture of the day comes from 1 Timothy 6:18.

Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. Our quote from Bill Murray. Whatever you do, always give a 100% unless you're donating blood.

Very clever. I like that. Why is that so

stupid and so funny at the same time?

It's a great >> just really I love Bill Murray. Great, great, great quote today. Gary is waiting for us in Texas. Gary, how can we help?

>> Yes, sir. Hi, Gary.

>> U Yes, sir. It's good to be here.

>> Good to be here as well. How can we help?

>> Um uh I I got uh me and my wife got into

this house and uh the house has started falling apart pretty rapidly and I've got behind on bills and house recently

went into foreclosure >> and I want to know if there's a way that I can get out of it.

>> Well, we hope so. Let's see if we can get out of it. How many payments have you missed? >> Yeah. >> Um I think so far we've done this about

five or six >> in a row.

>> Yes, sir. >> What's the total amount that you're behind?

>> Uh about probably about

about 10,000 probably. I mean it's $2,000 a month. >> Okay. So $10,000 or behind. And you mentioned that the house is falling apart. Is that the reason why you're not able to pay the mortgage payment?

>> Uh well, like I said, I've got behind on work. I've had some things happen in my life recently that have caused me to miss some work and uh we kind of got

behind on the house payment. And then uh

uh foundations messing up, ceiling started fall. This is not long after we bought the house. >> Okay. >> The ceiling started falling in. heater went out during the first winter that we stayed here. Uh I mean the all electricity started. >> So were you were you cash flowing these repairs? Did you go into debt for these repairs? What's your total financial picture now?

>> Uh well we're only about $3,000 in

credit card debt really. But >> that's the only debt you have >> there's besides the house of course now

which is uh way too much for what it is.

What did you guys bring in last month as far as income?

>> Uh, I make about 8,000 a month.

>> That's good income. >> I'm so confused how you make eight grand a month and you couldn't make the two grand payment. Like, you make that before making anything else?

>> Yes. I'm also helping uh helping my mom

pay for a lot of stuff, too, cuz she's in bad health. >> So, you're going to be homeless to help mom out?

>> I mean, the h the house is falling apart is what? So, I'd be >> Well, wait a second, Gary. Hold on, Gary. We're all over the place, and we got to get on the same page. So, let me just ask you a few questions to see if we can get some clear answers. Have you been cash flowing was what George asked.

Have you been paying for the ceiling falling in, the electricity going completely out, all these things? Have you been paying to repair these things or are these things just sitting in disrepair?

>> They're at the moment sitting in disrepair because they all started at one time, right? And where is all the money going that you're making? You're making 8,000. Is that the total amount of income or is your wife is it a double income? What do we got?

>> She She doesn't make very She only makes about maybe 2,000 a month, >> bro. That's 10 grand.

>> That's 10 grand. How much are you spending each month on your mom?

>> I'm I'm not entirely sure. I'd have to ask her. She keeps up with that. But >> hold on. Who keeps up with it? Mom,

>> my wife. >> Oh, your wife keeps up with it. So, George, we have a budgeting problem. We don't even know where the money is. >> Gary, here's the good news. You could solve this in 2 months and just talk to the lender and say, "Hey, I know I'm 10 grand behind. I'm going to pay five grand a month for the next two months and catch up." >> That's right. >> That's the actual solution here is to set up a repayment plan and actually communicate with the lender.

>> But I'm confused. I think there's something deeper that you're not telling us about where this money is going

cuz you don't have a lot of debt and I don't think your expenses add up outside of that 2,000 mortgage which you can't even make. Where is this 10,000 disappearing into? Cuz I don't think it's repairs either.

I mean, we we have money in our account, but >> how much >> like not uh right now probably about

5,000, >> but I'm saying uh like $120,000

slips through your hands every year.

>> Do you understand? >> Why do you have $5,000 in your account right now when you are $10,000 behind on

your mortgage?

We just started, we just now started getting back up to where we were because I was only making uh I haven't been at this new job for at very long. I was only making about in

between four maybe $4,000 a month and

then I recently got on to this new job.

>> When was that?

>> Uh just over a year ago.

>> Okay. And you just told me that you've been behind on payments for five months while making eight grand. So something's not adding up here, Gary. But number one, you can't help mom right now.

>> Yeah. >> You're on the verge of losing your home.

>> And so you need to call the lender today and say, "Hey, I've got five grand to give you, and I'll give you the next five grand next month." And then you do whatever it takes to come up with five grand next month. You understand?

>> I mean, what am I supposed to do with her, though? >> With with her? With mom?

>> Yes. She needs to figure it out because the long-term plan can't be I just fund mom's life while I can't make a mortgage payment.

>> All right. Well, I'll just tell her to stop going to the hospital and stop having bad health. >> Well, I mean, she's going to rack up medical bills, right?

>> Uh the uh what you uh >> Does she have medicare insurance cover?

>> Yes, she has Medicare, but it's not covering her house and stuff like that.

>> Okay. All right. So, we're not trying to upset you, but but you you're only giving us like we're having to pull information out of you in order to help you. So, we got to talk. What is the What is your mom's housing cost? So, let's look at what is your does she own her home? Is it a mortgage? Yes or no?

>> It's a mortgage. >> Okay. What is her mortgage?

>> Uh hers is about I think 1,200 a month.

>> 1,200 a month. Okay. And what would you say outside of the mortgage are her monthly expenses? Utilities and everything else. We're not talking healthcare right now.

>> Uh, see I'm I'm not entirely sure, but that she covers that. I I just help pay the house and stuff like that. >> Okay. You just help pay the house and stuff like that.

You mean just the mortgage? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. But you can see we're trying to help you and you don't even know.

If your wife was on the phone, sounds like we might get a better play of the numbers. So, >> probably. >> Yeah. Yeah, but see, Gary, I mean, that kind of needs to happen.

Not kind of, I don't know why I even said that. You and your wife have got to get on the same page about where our money is going because the good news is with the new job, George is right. You can dig out of this mess. But, can I also say I don't think George is heartless.

George is one of the kindest people I know. And you're you were kind of like, well, what am I supposed to do? Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Doesn't mean that you put yourself in financial ruin. your mom. That's a

separate set of circumstances. And you then do you have any siblings?

>> Uh I not uh well not not really anymore.

>> That's a pretty straightforward question.

>> I'm I'm I don't really like to talk about it a whole lot. Okay. >> But uh recently I've recently I lost my brother. >> Okay. I am so sorry. But but what I'm trying to figure out is this is is this truly all on you? And even then, if you're the only surviving child

to >> I'm the only one that'll I'm the only one that'll help her at the moment.

>> I understand. But my point is is you've got to sit with mom and go, is it time for mom to sell the house? And if mom sells the house, we get rid of the $1,200 mortgage payment, but then where can she stay? You know, is she >> Well, I was what I what I was planning on doing was I was wanting to fix my house up and sell mine and then uh I was

going to buy hers since she's in bad health. >> You don't have any money. You're behind five house payments.

>> I know, Gary, but like you've got to take care of your house before we can take care of mom. And and >> first of all, you got to get current on the mortgage payments. Who knows how much it's going to cost to fix this house that's falling apart. >> You got to put your own mask on first is what this amounts to.

I'm >> you can't help someone from a place where where you're weak and you've got to get to a place of strength, which means you have financial stability. Then we can figure out mom's situation. But the truth is, we're doing a budget tonight. We could solve all of this.

You got 10 grand coming in. We need 2 grand for the mortgage, 1,200 for mom. There's still plenty of money left over, and you still haven't told us where it's disappearing to.

Look at all the bank statements. It'll tell you real quick where this money's been going and what we should do about it next. Remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 280. Your Financial Progress Starts Now! | March 25, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, George Kamel, Ramsey Personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. It's a free call. Some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Bob's in Chicago. Hey Bob, what's up?

Hi Hi Dave and George, how you doing?

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, man. How can I help?

So, a few months back my daughter and her then fiance approached my wife and me to discuss moving their wedding up by several months. We'd made all the plans, had a date picked, and they wanted to to move that forward quite a bit. And uh we disagreed with them. We said, "Hey, we got a date, we got a venue, we got everything paid for, everything's moving along. Let's keep it there." Um they didn't like that. They chose to then

get married after about 2 weeks notice.

And uh in a different venue, different state. And uh we're just kind of wondering, is it right or wrong for us to uh ask them to reimburse us for the funds that we we spent, we're out of pocket? Hm. These are non-refundable, they changed it all, and then you you were out that money, and they didn't care cuz it wasn't their money?

Pretty much, that's the way it feels, yep. How much money are we talking?

Uh about $8,500. Mhm.

No.

And here's why.

Um I've gone through this three times with kids getting married and setting up wedding budgets and all that And the thing that I had to keep reminding everyone in my family, including me and my wife, was that it ain't our party.

We just funded it, but it's not our party. So, um the prob- the problem is it's not the $8,500, your wife's feelings are deeply

hurt.

Yeah, well, the whole the whole family is pretty hurt cuz it was going to be a big family event, all the kids involved in it, and it was taken away.

Did they like a loophole where you guys invited to this other wedding?

We were invited with 2 weeks' notice, so we scrambled and we got ourselves there, spent a fortune getting there. Um as we hadn't we hadn't planned on it in short notice and all, but uh we we did make it there. Where Where did you go?

Uh we went to uh Texas.

It costs a fortune to go to Texas?

Oh, for us it it felt like quite a bit of money. We probably spent about $7,000 getting all the kids and everybody there. We've got a big family. Oh, you paid for everybody else to go. Yes, sir.

Did they pay for the new wedding?

You They didn't ask us for any money for it, although we had paid for the dress and some other uh stuff that they had bought already for the existing wedding.

Yeah, I I I think everybody's mad and hurt, and um you guys are looking for a way to um

hit back, and I wouldn't. I think it's a good idea to walk away.

And just go, this is just This didn't go the way I wanted to. Nobody's happy except the little bride and groom, they're happy. And um this is not how we want to do it, and the next time I get ready to interact with them on something that involves money or planning or something, I'll keep this in mind, but um but I'm not going to hit back. I I I No, I would not. I I That's just That's just father and in-law advice. That's not financial advice.

Well, I do appreciate that. It's It's a complicated situation for sure and it's It's certainly like you said there's emotions wrapped up in it that make us Yeah, I mean you know, if it's at my house, it's my wife that's royally pissed about this. If it was at my I would be like this is inconvenient.

You guys are rude. You're being You're being children, but oh well, whatever.

You're got you know, you want to get married and that's good. So you're married and here we go. And um this is I

mean I I would have been whatever, but but at our house it would have been uh

you know, Bridezilla and her mother. And so um It's It's kind of like that's that's what we would have had to deal with here. So and that's what happened here. >> I don't think they're going to pay you back and I think it's just going to become a low contact or no contact relationship. So the question is is it worth souring this whole thing over eight grand? >> soured over eight grand. >> And so it's just going to make it worse.

I just can't imagine where this goes. I I just wouldn't throw this I wouldn't throw this down. I'd I'd just let it ride and move on. 20 years from now, it's just be uh a not funny memory. That's what it'll be 20 years from now. No one No one I'm still not laughing 20 years later. I'm still Don't bring it up, okay? But I got I got a couple of those in my life. I got stuff that 20 years ago happened.

>> Things everybody knows. Let's just not talk about it. >> I don't you know, don't I have got PTSD from COVID. Don't bring it up, you know? It's just like It's not funny. There's still not funny. You masked people, you're still not funny. And so all that stuff, you know, and all that. It's okay. We'll just keep moving. We're We're all good. We're all on the same planet. Life's good. Yeah. Ryan's in Reno. Hey Ryan, what's up in your world?

Howdy Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure, man. How can we help?

Yeah, I have a quick question. So I rent an apartment. I pay about 1,500 a month.

My lease is up in June, but in part of

the lease agreement I have to give notice two months in advance. And

basically my question is the market rate

for my unit is down a hundred dollars

from when I originally leased the apartment three years ago. You mean they're you mean that apartment complex is currently leasing a similar unit for a hundred dollars less?

Correct. So my question is should I commit to a new lease for a year and keep paying what I'm paying or should I

should I go month to month and go at the current market rate which would be a hundred dollars less?

Well, how long you going to stay there?

Well, now that's another good question.

I mean I'm planning to stay at least another six months, but they don't do six month leases and Well, then you're month to month, aren't you? So you're saying you go month to month and have flexibility and a hundred dollars less.

You're month to month.

So that's what I'm saying and they couldn't tell me when I asked the manager I was like if I go month to month would it be what I'm what you guys are currently selling for or would I currently >> It will be or I'm leaving. Yeah, you've got some leverage here. >> Yeah, I can leave. That's another option.

That is true, but it's just a hassle to move everything and go somewhere else.

>> that big of a hassle. It's a one bedroom apartment. It's your buddy's and a six pack of beer and a pickup truck.

That's good. That's good. Okay. It's not that big of a deal.

Don't don't make this into something it ain't. I mean I would go in there and go guys I'm going to go ahead and give you my notice now for June. I'm not going to be here. I'm going to go to month to month and I'm only going to go to month to month if you give me the price that you put up that your street price and otherwise I'm just going to leave.

So what do y'all want to do? >> Right.

>> make sense for me to pay more. Exactly.

I'm not paying more than the other some dude walks in off the street and I'm already in the thing. So you know, I mean you sit down and talk to the manager. Have a calm nice pleasant conversation. You don't have to be as rude as I'm being, but um but you know, you're just making the point that are obvious and but let the message be known.

We're going to month-to-month and we're going at the $100 less rate or we're going somewhere else. And if they're jerks about it, that's a sign you should not be staying there. Yeah, yeah. And it's just an apartment, man. You didn't you know, it's not a it's not a wedding.

That's true. You're you're going to move the wedding. You're going to move the wedding up and cost somebody money. It wasn't $8,500 worth. >> $100. But there's a lot of incompetent sort of like the front desk person who can't do anything and so you kind of have to go above that to someone who can make those decisions and change the lease cuz some people go, "Oh, it's the policy. Can't do anything." >> know, I think you get it in writing. Yeah. For sure. Basically powerless people have the power to say no only.

Exactly. And you go, "Well, I guess they said no." No, go beyond that. Push a little bit. We're not we're not through yet. We're just starting.

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Sarah's in Pittsburgh. Hey Sarah, how are you? I'm good. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

So, I'm on baby step number two and my question is how do I implement it properly if my budget only allows for minimum payments?

Um something's got to change.

So, your income has to go up or your outgo has to go down. We've got to sell something that's got debt on it. What do you owe on your cars?

So, I made a couple of bad decisions in the last year. 123,000 of this debt um

has just I've just accumulated in the last year. On what?

>> So, um I have about I had a couple of

bad decisions that I thought a year ago I was in a good financial space.

Um and I I had a rental income rental property that needed some work and I took out a $40,000 um HELOC so that I could do that work on that property.

Um I also bought a new vehicle uh well, a new to me vehicle, a 2023

um and I owe 28,000 on that. Okay. Um

And what's your household income?

>> So, my household income has changed. In the last 6 months I lost my dad, I lost my job, and I

separated from with my husband. Oh my gosh.

I'm sorry. So, so my income is around

75,000. Why did I you like I'll say you lost your job, got a new job. Good.

Okay. Yes. >> And how long have you been married?

15 years. I'm so sorry.

Okay. Are y'all attempting counseling or is this going to end in divorce?

It is going to end in divorce. Okay. Um

I was going to counseling individually for um about 5 months. I have I stopped that

about 4 months ago when I got laid off from my job cuz I just couldn't um >> Sure. couldn't afford Okay. So, the rental property is going to end up on you So, in the divorce?

>> It is going to be where it's where I'm living now. I moved into the rental property last month.

And my husband kept the house that we were in.

Okay.

All right. >> Um and so we started >> talking about how things split up on all this?

Um basically, I get my car and my dad, I

get this house, and it's payments, and

he gets his.

Um So, the 123 is all yours.

Correct. Okay. But, that's the 40 on the

HELOC on the house you moved out of?

No, the house I moved into. It has a HELOC on it.

Correct. >> Okay. What's the first mortgage on My mortgage is 155. Okay. And the HELOC

is 40. So, you owe 195, and the house is worth what?

275 Okay, all right. And uh you make 75

and what other debts have we got then?

Is the 40 and the 123?

Yes. Okay, so one So 40 and 28 is 68.

What's the rest of the 123?

I have 54,000 in consumer credit card debt that I have racked up in the last Uh well I 20,000 of it was prior um prior to

this other financial situation. I you know, I spent 15,000 on

a dream vacation before um my family split up and

I was in a a financial position then that it wasn't such a good situation.

>> making before?

Um So to get my husband and I together No, what were you making at your other job before you made 75?

Um 80 85 >> didn't take much of a pay cut. What does he make? >> No. 110 What are the child and you have children? Yes, I have three children. What ages?

19, 17, and 14 >> Oh my gosh.

Okay.

All right, so So my husband >> Let's let's just put a bracket Let's put a bracket around this. Let's put a bracket around this on the math part, okay? There's a lot of emotion and a lot of hurt and a lot of broken hearts, but the math

is you make 75,000 a year, you have a 28,000 car, and you have a house you can't afford and a car you can't afford.

I could afford the house and the car if I didn't have the credit card debt, but >> But you have the credit card debt.

No, you really can't.

The car is stupid.

And so was the vacation.

I agree. I I >> stuff what it is, okay? I agree they were stupid. I purchased them before. I >> I know. I knew that this was going to be >> up the mess, but you can't you can't defend it then. I can afford the car is not something that should ever come out of your mouth. You have a $30,000 car, you make $75,000 a year. No.

The problem with the car is I owe 28,000 on it and the value is only 27. So?

>> I can't even sell it and get out from under it. >> You come up with a thousand bucks. Yeah, you sell it. Don't pay the credit cards for two months and sell the car and get a $2,000 car.

Ta-da. We just got rid of What is the payment on this stupid thing? 1,200 bucks? Uh 653. Oh god. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it's killing you.

You told us you didn't have margin. So, the thing because you've been through this tremendous heartbreak, you've given yourself permission

to do things you shouldn't have done.

Go on a vacation and buy a car and run up credit cards.

Okay, so we have to say we have to undo as much of that as we can undo.

What do you do for a living?

Um I have three jobs. My My main source

of income, I negotiate leases and I

bring in about 42,000 at that. My

secondary income is real estate and I bring in about 25,000 in that.

>> Selling real estate? Selling residential real estate? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. And then I

>> doing that?

Uh eight years. Okay. So, it's time to get good at it now.

You You need to go make 150,000 selling houses.

I would love to. I just don't know how.

Yeah, your raise is effective when you are. I mean, yeah, you do. You've been around people that make that kind of money selling real estate. You've been doing this eight years. You've seen top performers. What do they do that you don't do?

So, I specialize in Not anymore.

>> first time home buyers and Not anymore.

family Now you specialize in money.

I specialize in selling houses for money. That's what I specialize in now.

You You don't You're not You're not in a position to be niche.

You got to go make money.

And I want you to go make a 150, 200,000 dollars a year selling a bazillion freaking houses. Instead of selling a house every other month, I want you to sell five a week. You've been doing it part-time. So imagine if you went all in on this. >> you This is you are you are a miss real estate girl with the glamour shot on her business card, the whole thing.

You got to do something to get your income up. How do I come up with the extra hours to put into it when I you know my my other day job is 8:00 to 4:00 and then I just

picked up a bartending job on Friday and Saturday and >> the bartending went away and you're going to be in the real estate business.

Okay.

And um you know and I'm going to start I'm going to get away from that other day job as fast as I can cuz you can't pay squat $40,000 a year.

Boo. Boo. Boo.

So we got to get your income up. We got to think differently about these decisions that got us here so that we don't even ever say out loud again that there was a good reason for these things. They just were happening during a broken heart time and I made bad decisions. And you said that early on and then you went back and said, "Yeah, but I need the car." And the car's The car's bull crap. The car's It's awful.

Get rid of it. It represents a bunch of things about you that you don't like. I want to get rid of it. I want it out of my driveway.

I don't want to look at this thing anymore. I want to get rid of it. And uh and I'm going to get in gear and start selling houses like a crazy person. And that's the good news cuz you you actually have been around the business enough you know go get a hold of two or three of the top performers and say, "Teach me what you do.

Let me join your team and help you with do what you do. I got to make more money and I'm getting ready to put it in gear like I've never put it in gear in my entire life.

And it's a it's a clean white board.

Brand new year. Grace, mercy.

Time to start over.

And then you chop up the credit card.

So, first thing you do is you pay food.

The second thing you do is you pay lights and water. Third thing you do is you pay the two house payments. Fourth thing you do is you pay the stupid car payment till you get rid of the stupid car.

And until you do that, you don't pay anybody anything.

So, the credit cards are way down the list. They don't get paid nothing right now. Nothing. "What about credit?" You don't need credit. You're broke.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Alyssa in Vermont.

I'm in my late 20s and trying to be more organized regarding my finances. Do you think using AI for things like tracking spending and setting budgets is a smart and practical approach, or should people stick to more traditional methods?

Interesting. I have seen some videos online of people using AI to try to help

them kind of get control of their money, but it really does a terrible job when it comes to actually tracking your actual spending, cuz it can't pull in your transactions. It doesn't know your life. Here's the thing. AI is only as

effective as the data set that you feed it.

And so, if it doesn't have the data, it can't crunch it.

And so, you have to you have to build the budget anyway for it to know what to do, or it's clueless. >> It doesn't know your actual expenses.

>> It can't read your mind. It's not It's not a spiritual thing. It's just you feed it a data set and it crunches it.

That's all it is. And so, like we built Ask Ramsey, okay?

You go to our website at ramseysolutions.com and you can ask Ramsey any question you want to ask on the show, but you couldn't get through on the show, okay? So, what is the A and it's an AI tool. We built it. It's an No one else has touched it but Ramsey.

What's in the data set? Uh 5 years of the calls from this show

and the answers we gave are dumped into the data set. All the Financial Peace University videos are dumped in the data set. All the books that the personalities and I have written are dumped into the data set.

And so, it's a pure data set, so it's going to give you an actual Ramsey answer to a money question. It's not

going to give you an answer of anything else. Had nothing to do with Reddit. Had nothing to do with that bunch of crap on the internet. We There's no There's no trash in the data set. And that's the problem, Alyssa, with trying to do what you're doing cuz personal finance the key to fixing personal finances understanding that personal finance is 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge. AI can

help you with the head knowledge, but you still got to deal with the person in your mirror.

And when you actually take the Every Dollar budgeting app and lay out and put your budget together, your brain is affecting that and you're making a commitment to you that this is how much I'm going to spend on groceries, this is how much I'm going to spend on uh eating out, which is not at all I'm getting out of debt. This is how much I'm going to do whatever with and you've made a commitment to you. That's right.

>> And And so, you've begun at just by the very act of you putting the number into the Every Dollar app, you have begun to modify your own behavior. AI can't do that for you. Now, once we've got the Once you've got all the data in there and let's say you've been in Every Dollar for 2 years, are we going to have some AI in the background helping you manipulate your data? Yes. Not yet, but

we will have by the time you get there. >> Yeah. And so, uh because that's a good use of AI. >> Because we actually know your goals, we can help steer you. Whereas AI is going to be a little more >> read your mind. It's going to be a little more agnostic. >> Yeah, I don't want I don't want an you don't want a budgeting tool of any kind

that auto populates the numbers in the sense of in the sense of it just makes up a number and drops it.

>> Cuz you need to look at it and say, "For me, Alyssa in Vermont, this is what I

need to spend on rent." It doesn't need to auto populate your rent. And when you

actually type it into EveryDollar, you need to go, "Holy crap, my rent's really high." Or "Holy crap, I got a really good deal renting this garage apartment out back from this old lady's house. You know, I got a deal." And you your brain is starting to verify your numbers and your behaviors at that point. And so, uh It's not going to help you spend less on DoorDash. After you've gotten control >> and I've run a budget for many years, and AI could access that data, it could be really helpful.

But when you're starting, I'm more concerned that you learn to control you than you do math right. Yeah, you know your spending habits. You know what's going on. So, I would start with EveryDollar for sure.

Yeah, and if you're working the baby steps, it's going to give you it's going to prompt you again like the Ask Ramsey thing. It's going to prompt you what we would tell you to do. So, if you wonder what George Campbell would say to do, EveryDollar's going to be telling you right then. When you put that down, it's going to go, "Hey, by the way, it looks like you're missing this." Or you're spending a lot over here. What if you cut that back to save this much money?

>> a tax refund. You want to adjust that W-2. You know, it looks like you're doing this, and you may not want to do that. It looks like you got the you know, and we're going to give you some Ramsey input as you're building your budget out.

So, it's not agnostic. It's got Ramsey flavor. It's not quite as sassy as I want it to be. I want it to be smart alec.

>> We'll dial it up. But I digital smart alec's hard to dig get going, but um if I ever figure out how to do it I'm going to make a lot of money cuz digital Smart Alex cool. >> People have been asking for the Dave function on Ask Ramsey where it just spits out the Dave response.

Just don't do stupid stuff button. It starts with that's a stupid question but here's the answer. That that would be fun. I would like that. Dave how do I build my credit? >> that's there. None of that's there and they're not going to actually do it even though in my dreams I think it's funny.

But yeah. So check out every dollar for free download it in the app store and always keep in mind that when you are doing anything that doesn't prompt your

brain to make a measurement on your budgeting stuff you're probably off track cuz you need to be making measurements as you go along. And when you're spending money in marketing we call that friction. If if when you spend money you feel it that's your brain

telling you I just spent money. But if you just like Apple Pay and I have no idea what you pay for that. I don't know it's on Apple Pay. I didn't even look.

It's just Apple Pay. I just wave my phone and crap jumped in my basket you know. And it's like that's drives me crazy. No friction at all right?

But you know submit and you know prime prime prime prime prime prime. Now it's on auto. >> 18 cases of toilet paper on the front porch. >> had a subscription to it and it just shows up.

>> It should yeah oh yeah you subscribe to your stupidity. Yeah that's it. Regular regular diet of it. But yeah that that's the thing you want stuff that tells you when you're off.

When you actually spend green cash with

presidents faces on them there have been studies done that shows that it activates the pain centers of the brain.

So like you get ready to buy groceries and you slide two Uncle Benjamins across to the cashier your brain goes ouch.

When you wave Apple Pay your brain doesn't know anything happen. It doesn't feel it.

Cuz it there's no recognition. But there's something about our brains going, I just freaking spent money. When you use a debit card and you know it's coming out of your checking account right then, versus a credit card that someday I'll pay, I hope I pay it this month, but I might someday pay it. Right? Bull crap.

There's a difference between the debit card and credit card. They look just alike visually, but your brain is going, you just spent money. >> You're using your money now. >> have some money in that account when you're using your debit card. When you're using a credit card, you're like, oh, I'll deal with this later. You know, maybe. >> Problem for future me to deal with.

>> Using someone else's money. >> future me, but yeah. Uh and but even the

debit card doesn't activate the pain centers like cash does. If you want to start spending less money, start spending more cash.

You'll go to the ATM. >> You'll you'll limit your spending because you go, crap.

Those groceries were expensive.

Well, now it's on trend. You You did the cash envelope system 30 years ago, and now the Gen Z'ers are calling it cash stuffing. They make videos of them stuffing the envelopes with the exact amount of cash, which it's a great trend. I'm glad it's coming back, but they're acting like they invented it.

I didn't invent it either. The first time it came up is the 1930s. Wow. Cuz you got paid on Friday in cash in a envelope.

And you walked out with your paycheck and you broke it up, put a little in a grocery envelope, a little bit in the rent envelope, a little bit in this. And people have sent me ledgers that their grandmother and their great-grandmother kept with the envelopes in the back of them from the 1920s and 30s.

I mean, the number of people that wrote checks. >> to budget. >> If you wrote a check in the 1930s, you were rich. Rich people did I mean, no nobody but rich people wrote checks. >> Only the elite had access to checks.

>> was no credit cards cuz there was no credit cards until the late 1950s up into the 60s. And in the 70s is when the credit card actually took off. So, you know, you go back and so, yeah, the Gen Z'ers didn't invent it, but I didn't either. I had the We actually sell an envelope system in the store. >> got it. Rachel's Rachel's wallet has a built-in envelope. >> That's a fancier version. Looks better.

>> Yeah. That's what rich people do. The Rachel envelope. Future rich people. That's a good history lesson, Dave. Thanks for walking us down there. Yeah, well, it's good it's it's it's good to remember if you that you're managing behavior, you're not managing numbers.

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Chelsea is in Lubbock, Texas. Hi Chelsea, how are you?

Hi, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Good. Um I was just calling because I'm looking for some advice on how I can get my husband to be a little bit more comfortable, um how I could encourage him to be more comfortable spending money. Um he tends to put a big value

uh behind everything that we spend on um

as if it's wasteful and that sort of thing. Um we just we have a

>> He's very cheap. Yeah, my wife is too.

Yeah. Well, for example, we went I wanted a Five Guys burger for dinner one night and um he, you know, joyfully went

out and got it for me and he comes back with a bag from there and a bag from Burger King. And I asked him who got Burger King, you know, we have two young kids, so I thought that maybe. And he said, "No, the burger at Five Guys was $18." So, he got me a burger there and got himself Burger King. You know, we never we're not big Burger King people. He doesn't like Burger King, it's just cheaper. And so, he chose He likes the price, not the taste. Yes. Got it.

That's hilarious. But at least he got you Five Guys. He didn't come back >> worth of gas driving across town to Burger King, but Yes. Yeah.

Um I we have a 6-month-old and I preheated the oven to start dinner and I went in to feed baby and put him down and I come out to the oven being turned off. Um and and he just he thought I had I it was just wasteful to leave the oven on and I was like, "Well, it was preheating." And he's like, "Well, the electric bill will go up if we just leave the oven on." That's called preheating, doofus. Yeah.

Wow. It sounds like he must have had a childhood where dad and mom were like, "Hey, it's tight. We got to save money anywhere we can." Yeah, when was he wounded?

>> He did have um some experiences as a kid. You know, it was like brand new dirt bikes one day and then um you know, a Hawaii vacation and then suddenly they can't afford the vacation they're on. And they they have to go to grocery store and now they're they're buying food. They they can't afford to be there. Um you know, from we learn from mistakes that his dad had made >> How old is is your is your husband?

He's 30. And you guys have been married 10 years?

Um yep, this year. Okay. Mhm. Okay.

Yeah. And so we you know Well, I I think I think it starts it starts with saying, "Okay, being frugal and wise with money

is the hallmark of wealthy people. Uh wealthy people are careful with their money. But the Burger King and the preheating the oven is just weird.

That's not careful. That's just strange.

Okay? So, we can start with a conversation with you have a natural tendency that's going to cause our family to be very successful and that is you're going to watch and be careful with money. The downside is is that you're never going to be able to enjoy it.

Mhm. And you're never going to have the ultimate joy of it, which the most fun

you'll ever have with money is when you give it away.

Generosity. >> Mhm. Generosity. When you put a set of tires

on a single mom's car and she's working three jobs and it cost you a thousand dollars, that's the most fun you ever have in your life.

Mhm. >> When when you leave a three hundred dollar tip at Thanksgiving for the pregnant Waffle House waitress, Mhm.

that's the most fun you'll ever have with money in your life. And you can't do that in the mindset that he's in. He can't do that. His brain won't let him do that. Well, and so that there he he actually is is generous giver. It just comes from our family. >> not. Well, I mean, we >> Cuz he can't even give to himself. He can't even leave the oven on. >> That's true. Okay? So, no, he's not. I mean, he he I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I think he's a great guy.

I think he just has the if I were coaching him, if he were to call me, I would just say, "You need to have some fun." Mhm. And you need to have some fun.

Because this guy's never going to be irresponsible. It's impossible.

Yeah. >> He's never going to impulse a Porsche.

No. It's It's His brain would explode.

He just can't do He couldn't do it. And I don't want him to. So, if the Mhm. if I get this guy feeling like he's gone wild, now he's just normal.

>> Yeah. Mhm. Now, he's just a regular human now.

Cuz I mean, he's just he's just wired up about this. So, I want him to enjoy money. There's three things you can do with money. You can invest it for the future, being careful and frugal. You can enjoy it, and you can give it to others. That's the only three things you can do with it.

Mhm. And you should be doing all three if you're healthy spiritually. >> Mhm. If you're healthy emotionally and relationally. And so, honey, I want us to enjoy the money. I don't want us to be irresponsible. I'm so happy you're here.

I'm so I'm always going to be provided for. We're always going to have money because you are going to make sure of it. I'm never going to worry about money because I have you.

And you're going to learn to have fun because you have me.

I'm going to help you have fun. I'm guessing it's partially why he married you. Oh, yeah. I I'm the one that plans the trips and the the extra things that we're doing and stuff. But But I mean, you're right. He is the He is responsible. I feel like I I'm responsible, too, in the sense. But I feel like there's definitely I'm trying to figure out a way of >> I'm not saying you're irresponsible. I'm just saying he's hyper-responsible.

He is very hyper-responsible. I mean, if I if I bought a name brand ketchup, you know, he's like, "What did we win the lottery?" You know, and I'm like, "Okay, well, you know, Next time you say that, I'm going to hit you with the ketchup.

I'm going to smack you across the forehead with the ketchup bottle.

Yeah. He isn't serious. That's That's so silly. That's so silly. Do you guys do a monthly budget? Do you actually sit down and look at the numbers?

Yes, we use every dollar. And there's money left over at the end of the month, right? Oh, yes. Where does that all go?

Um just to investments. I mean, we invest about 20% of our income. Um we

make about 250k a year. And how much do you have in your nest egg?

Um we're Our net worth is about 800,000. Got you.

At 30, you're about to be millionaires and you're 30 years old. See, I told you the guy's a great guy. I mean, what what he's doing is working, but he really has got to dial this back about 5%.

The ketchup bottle thing and the cut in the oven off thing and the Burger King thing, that's just over in the weird column, y'all.

I mean, that's just that's strange.

Okay? Yeah. And so, quit being strange.

I'd tell him to go to therapy, but I assume he won't pay for it.

SO, THAT'S KIND OF A CONUNDRUM THERE.

YOU MIGHT HAVE TO TELL HIM it's free. The first one's free. He may be able to see a counselor at Go have coffee with a friend, but I'd have to buy the coffee. Yep.

Too frugal for his own good.

Oh. No, seriously, it it's and I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, uh Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she talks about family of origin.

And it's one of the things that causes people to make the decisions we make in our um upbringing. And Rachel and Winston are a little bit like y'all.

Winston's the tighter, more conservative one, and Rachel's the fun girl.

Right? And so, and Winston really needs

Rachel cuz he wouldn't be any fun without Rachel. And Rachel really needs Winston cuz he's super responsible, and they've got a great net worth, and they do a great job managing money, and they they you know, she teaches him how to have fun, he teaches her how to save money. I mean, it's a This is a ongoing thing. They've been married 12 years.

I mean, this is how they do it. And that's the same with Sharon and Sharon Sharon's the saver, I'm the spender. And you know, I'm the frugal one in our house. So, I relate but I don't go this far.

I don't go this far if Whitney comes home with the Heinz ketchup instead of the you know, generic brand.

unless it's Kirkland. I at least try to go I find what's on sale and that's kind of how I shop. Okay. But if Whitney goes out shopping, I don't expect her to live by my standards. Your weirdness.

Exactly. There there we go. But you know what I did is I forced myself to spend money in the budget. So, I have George fun money.

Oh, you know what? That's a good idea. >> to spend it. That's why I asked about the budget.

Yeah, we need to put a fun category for boy child in there and let him go have some fun. You have to spend some money on you. Otherwise >> that I did that and when we first started with with Sharon because we had clothing envelopes. We're talking about the envelopes a while ago.

And she spent it all on the kids clothes. She said, "Well, I don't need anything." I don't need anything. I'll just make something out of the drapes, you know.

I mean, seriously. And so, I had to separate the envelopes. We had Sharon's clothing. Yep. Kids clothing. And you

can't spend anything in that envelope except what the envelope says. So, you have to spend this on you.

And she's gotten over that by the way.

Now she's very comfortable. She's particularly shoes, yeah. But I mean, she yeah, she very comfortable buying Isn't this cute?

Yeah, that just cost me that. >> Now she's a shoe museum. It's so cute.

Come on. Look at how unbelievably how cute that is. But >> of you guys, Dave. That's progress. >> Well, I mean I mean, that's only 40 years we've been working on it. So, we eventually get there. But yeah, make him have a category with his name on it and he has to spend it on something fun.

And something that's irresponsible and wild and crazy. He needs a hobby.

>> Give him a hobby and give him 30 bucks a month to do that. Yeah, make him spend some money on a hobby and he'll go, "Gosh, this is actually fun." And he'll start to unwind a little bit from the tightwad syndrome. That's a good idea.

That's a good idea, George. That's better than all the other blabbing I did in the whole call. I'm a man of brevity.

Yeah. Well, you got right to it, I can tell you that.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Daniel is on

the line in Salt Lake City. Hi Daniel, how are you?

Hey fellas, how that doing? Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

Oh, so I got divorced about 2 years ago. Mhm.

Um well, separated 2 years ago, finalized a year ago.

Um there is effectively starting over financially.

Um pretty much lost all the equity in the house.

Um and I'm 42.

I've learned a lot of the basics on I

won't say basics, I've actually learned finance within that point. I actually understand money now, but it just feels like I'm too late. It feels like I'm too far behind.

Um and I'll never catch up to actually retire at a decent age with my back still straight. Yeah.

Um you you said you're 40, right?

42. 42. Got divorced at 40. Yeah, and

your um your income is what, sir?

Right now, it's about 85,000. Okay.

All right. And um so the house and a bunch of the stuff went away. Uh did you end up with debt also, or are you debt free but have nothing? Are you at even?

Debt free but have nothing. Okay. You have anything in a 401k from before?

Yes, but it's well, so from before, no.

Um we >> went to her.

Well, yes and no. It's not like she kept it. The the context is one of the main one of the main reasons we divorced was she racked up a lot of debt behind my back. Oh, okay. All right. And so, you cleaned out the 401k to pay that, so you got nothing.

Um I've I never I've never formally had one because I worked I I worked construction my whole life, and I worked for smaller companies that never offered a retirement. >> Okay. All right. I'm just trying to catch up. So, you literally have no debt, but you have but you're renting a house or an apartment.

Yes, correct. And you have no debt on your car.

Correct. I got a I I I mean, I did that smart. I got a 2010 Toyota Tundra. I just rolled over 251,000 miles, never broken. I love the maintenance.

>> That car will go another 250. That's a great car. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um And you're working construction, so that's perfect truck for it, absolutely.

Uh but but but but but >> I've taken I've I've taken a promotion.

Um I'm I'm now in the management side rather than the field install. Okay. All right. Um >> Well, here's the thing. Yeah, and >> biggest thing you have to overcome is not the mathematical challenge of being okay by age 65 because that's a laydown.

We can You definitely are going to be fine. You're going to be a multi-millionaire when you >> show you how to have a million bucks in an estate by then. But easy. Maybe two.

Okay? But the biggest thing you've got to overcome is two things. Um how long were you married?

Uh well, we were together for 21 years, married for 14. >> okay. So, you're grieving a death,

a broken heart, a relationship that died after 21 years.

And with that goes a broken heart. It goes anger. It goes loss of confidence in myself cuz I let this go on longer than I should have.

Um the part you played in it, that you just kind of turned a blind eye, and then finally you didn't. And all that crap. If you were just starting fresh without any scars on your heart, and you were just 18 years old and all smiles, we could just turn you loose on the world making 85,000, and you'd go have a bunch of money pretty quick. But you've got to overcome the lack of confidence in yourself, and quit looking in the rearview mirror.

It's smaller than the windshield. That's called grace.

Start looking forward instead of backwards so much. You're going to learn a few lessons that I didn't that I did wrong, but I want to not do those again, but that's all I got from the past. The rest of the past is just gone. It's past. It's over. Let's go forward and say, "Okay." Cuz George, 15% of 85,000,

did you run that? >> I ran the numbers for him here. From 42 to 67, you're you'd be investing a little over a thousand bucks a month if you follow our plan, 15% of your household income. You'd have 1.4 million, and that's at 10%. If you get 11 or 12, you're talking 1.6, 1.7, 1.8.

And that's if you never get a I think you're going to have 2 million dollars or more at 65.

If you do what we teach and you follow it. So, you're going to live on a written budget. You're not going to borrow money. You're going to have an emergency fund, and you're going to put 15% of your income, whatever you make the rest of your life, away into good retirements and good growth stock mutual funds. Get online, go to DaveRamsey.com,

find the SmartVestor Pro in your area that we have vetted and that we trust and that does stuff the way we teach, and they'll sit down and go, "Okay, your company has a 401k, you can do this." Or it doesn't and you can do that. And you can do this, and you can do this, and you need to be putting aside in your case right around a thousand dollars a month. That's about 15,000 dollars a year for I mean, about 15% of your income. And if you never get a raise

in the next 30 years, which would officially make you a loser, okay? If you never get a raise,

you're still going to have over a million and a half dollars. And that's with no employer match your whole life in a retirement account. >> match and you get raises, it's going to be more than that. But, you're going to have to do this as a as methodical as just every stinking month a thousand

dollars goes into something. And I I don't know what your mix is, what you're going to be able to put it in, but we're going to put it into Roth 401k's with the match first, and then we're going to put it into anything with a match second, and then we're going to put it into Roth IRAs, and all in good growth

stock mutual funds, and you're going to have serious money. And um stay out of debt so that you can do that. And when you start dating again

someday, and he's like, "Uh-uh." Well, you will. Um but um I mean, once you get past this a little bit, uh you know, you're looking for someone that wants to join you in this wealth-building venture, not

suck the marrow out of your bones.

And so you look you know, cuz you you can't make enough money when someone's sucking the marrow out of your burn bones to eat and up with anything but broken even at 42, which is where you are. So, you're fine.

You can become wealthy.

And you're going to be you're going to have a lot of money if you just simply follow this plan. But the biggest impediment you have today is a broken heart and confidence that it can be done. Cuz you're sitting there saying, "Oh, I don't know if it's too late." You're at 42.

YOU'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE to too late. If you call me up and you're 72, we'll have this discussion.

But you're 42.

You've got decades to make >> What's happening he's comparing his 42-year-old self to his 39-year-old self who had a bunch of money.

Well, now I know it sound like it's been ongoing, but I mean whatever is 34 years old is yeah. >> What I had and now I don't and now it feels like I'm behind. Well, >> Exactly. That's that's fair, too.

>> You'll hear callers on the show who are in crippling debt at your age who still have a mountain to climb cleaning this mess up, and you're in actually in a good spot. >> Yeah, you're >> All things considered. You have a great income. You don't have to talk anybody into this.

It's just you. You The guy in your mirror is the only one you got to talk into it. >> That's the only one that can mess it up. >> That's very That's a lot easier than the way you've been living.

You've been trying to push the rock up a hill by yourself.

going to be fine. So, you hang on. We're going to get you set up with every dollar, and I'm going to send you a copy of the book that started the whole thing, The Total Money Makeover with the baby steps, and show you exactly what to do next, what to do next, what to do next. Once you build an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses, but you're going to do that in just a few months, and then you're going to kick in on this 15% of your income, and you're going to retire with anywhere from 2 to 3 million dollars at age 65 to age 70, somewhere in there.

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Art in Buffalo. Hey Art, how are you?

Hey Dave, hey George, how are you doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help?

So I got a question. I I'm calling to find out if our plan is possible. My fiance and I

want to retire within the next 5 to 7 years.

Um I'm 42, she's 45.

And we'd like to retire early.

What are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Travel.

We like to travel.

We do a lot of traveling now and that's the plan. We We have an RV now.

Um you know, that's So for 40 years

as long as you've already been alive, you're going to travel.

I like to travel, too. But my God, son.

You're going to do nothing for the next 30 years but travel?

Until we get bored of traveling.

Okay, I can't I I I I don't recommend that as a life decision.

I I don't think that's going to make you as happy as you think it is. Now, if you want to travel a lot while you have something that you actually do that contributes to your life and contributes to things, that's fine, too. But I wouldn't do nothing but travel

unless you said I'm going to do that for 2 years or something like that. That's fine, but to have that to be your only plan for 30 years is pretty shallow and I can't recommend that. I don't think it's going to make you as happy as you think it is. That I'm just going to tell you. Anyway, let's answer your question anyway about your numbers. So, your fiance, when are you getting married?

Um that's probably within the next year.

Okay. Got that tacked down. Not at all. Okay.

And um What How much do you have saved?

So, I have 45,000 in my 401. I've got

10,000 in a high-yield savings, 10,000 in brokerage account.

I've got 50,000 in cash.

I've got a rental property that's paid off.

Right now, I only have about 45,000 in

in debt.

What does the rental property produce?

1,500 a month.

Man, you're going to be on beans and rice.

You're not retiring in 5 years.

And you're going to live on 1,500? You're going to travel on $1,500 a month?

So, no. I I mean, I plan on obviously contributing more to it in the next 5 to 7 years.

Yeah, like 5 or 600 grand?

What do you make?

Um together, we make almost 200,000.

Okay. All right.

If you want to save $100,000 a year for the next 5 years between the two of you and you get very specific on your marriage date so that you can do that safely without putting either one of you at risk, um $100,000 a year would 500,000 and then you've got the fifteen hundred a month coming in from the rental property.

That'll produce fifty grand a year give or take. So you'd have a sixty-five or seventy thousand dollar income to live on. Um that's not much traveling.

But I guess I get >> with with with her she's she's got two

hundred forty thousand in her deferred account. She's got fifty thousand in a Roth.

And I'll also get over all the money when I turn sixty plus social security.

You're not going to turn sixty for twenty years.

And you say you're forty-two?

Yeah. That's eighteen years. Yeah.

Okay.

Uh the answer to your question is no. I don't think you're going to be able to do what you can accomplish with the money you've got. Um Um if you want to you're just going to if you do it's going to be a very thin budget. I mean we're talking if gas prices go up the RV's parked.

I mean you I don't know what you're where you're going to be going on this kind of money. Cuz we're talking about you're going to have maybe fifty seventy-five maybe eighty thousand dollars a year to live on uh without destroying your nest eggs that you're building between now and then.

full-time will eat that up pretty quick.

>> Yeah, I don't know what kind of traveling you're do talking about doing but if that will do it for you then yeah you could do it. Um but that's a lot of truck stop food right there man. That's uh we're not doing fine dining here.

There's no Michelin stars involved in this process. Um yeah. And you you said you had only forty-five thousand dollars in debt and that tells me you've probably been funding a lot of this travel on credit cards with money you don't have and that part scares me. Yeah.

Um

I I I I think I would look for a different process and um so because I don't think this is the the you don't have the math ready um within the period of time we're talking about. So, what I probably would do is this.

Um I might retool and reset what I do for a living. That gives me a lot more flexibility to where I could travel 30

or 40% of the year, work the rest of the

time, not necessarily consecutive time, but take off a week here, a week there, 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there, that kind of thing. And the rest of time I run this business that I start.

And I'm making $100,000 a year, and I keep I keep an income stream going to fund the travel, and then let the nest egg build. Um I think you're going to have a better quality of travel and a better quality of life overall um than um I I'm having trouble picturing how this dream works out to be anything that's dreamy. I don't think it'll last for long is the problem. You know, you're going to have to go back to work eventually.

>> it's going to be a lot of stuff on the cheap, which will get old faster, you know, and um

given that you have income potential for another 30 years, um you know, that that's uh there's something left out of the equation here. I'm just not comfortable with this. So, I'm not going I'm not going to I wouldn't do it, so I can't tell you to do it. That's I I don't tell people to do stuff I wouldn't do.

Uh I can answer your question, and the question is you don't really you're not really going to have enough money in 5 or 6 years to do this well. It's going to be very tight if you do it, and you're going to struggle, and I would rather have a hybrid thing where I'm working less but instead of not at all, and traveling less than you have in your mind, but are able to do it at a better rate, a better quality of travel,

um get to go places, you know, and you know, it's that that you really

did dream about going to see. It's more of just a downshift. Instead of just um

feels like we're running away from a career I'm burnt out on rather than running to something. That's what's bothering me. >> Well, I find that a lot in the the FIRE movement, Dave, and it sounds like that's kind of what he's after here.

>> is not it's not even the FIRE movement's got better the FIRE movement's even got better goals than this stuff.

The goals associated with this are just horrible. I mean, the FIRE movement is not They're a little more clear about here's the number we need to hit. >> and you need a bigger number. It's always got a bigger number on it when I see that stuff. It's not um you know, we're It says seven-figure number. Yeah.

That they can live off of as a bridge until they get to actually retire.

>> your people with the FIRE movement because it it isn't what we teach, but it's out there. >> It's existed for a long time, and it's called financial independence retire early, and essentially it's let's work our tails off, get our income way up, keep our expenses way down, and then invest the margin in non-retirement investments so that we can use that as a bridge to live from 45, 50, 55 all the

way through retirement before we can access those funds. And some people do it, and if you I think if you the later you do it, the better your life is. The earlier you do it, what we find is that they either get bored, or they run out of money, or their goal post changes, and they realize I can't do this. I got to keep going, keep investing.

Well, it's Very few have done it successfully for their whole life.

The idea of not working is much more

appealing when you hate everything you do.

Um Which is a lot of these jobs.

>> And and it it's unrealistically appealing because I'm now 65 years old, and so my contemporaries, my friends have sold their businesses, and some of them are the most miserable they've been in their lives because they don't have anything to do.

They travel, and they play golf and they fish. >> smart people. And they they have they travel and they fish and they play golf and um And they're not very good. And they're not having as much fun as they were when they had their hand to something. And they will tell me that often. They're like, I envy you cuz you still work.

Well, you like the work you do. That makes all the difference.

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>> Sarah is in Portland, Oregon. Hi Sarah, how are you?

I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Nice. Um so, quick question. My aunt is

hiding debt from my uncle. Do I get

involved and tell him? Quick question and then convoluted story that kind of goes along with that. Oh, it has to be has to be a great story. Yeah, got to be a great story. How old are these two?

They're in their 60s. They have no retirement. One is not working on social

security. My aunt is not working on social security and husband is um >> How how did you get into this middle of this?

Uh they took me in when I was a child and raised me, so they're very much like my parents and their kids are very much like my siblings.

Okay. Are the other kids in on the secret as well?

Most of them as far as I know. That's who I've heard a lot of this from and from my aunt herself.

Okay. Why haven't they told her?

Him. Um Or him. Cuz they're they yeah, that nobody wants to be the rat.

Mhm. And now it's also generational. The daughter is doing the same thing to her husband. Mhm. Hiding debts.

Okay. Um well, I mean, you got two options. One is you just stand back and watch this thing unfold, which is bothering you, I can tell.

Um and I don't know the depth of your relationship. It sounds like more of a mother than an aunt, the way you're describing her. >> Correct. Um and I don't know how dysfunctional the lady is. I can tell she's a little bitter or a lot, but I don't know how bad it is.

Um so, what would happen if you sat down

with her and said, "Mom, what you're doing is wrong and I love Dad and I'm not going to let you do this to him." So, you have 4 days till Friday evening

to tell him. If you haven't told him by Friday evening, you're going to see my smiling face here Saturday morning. I'm going to tell him.

I can definitely do that. She has shared some of her debt already with him, but she's hiding some of it because she um

thinks that he's going to end up controlling everything she has and get really angry and blow up, which has happened in the past. Well, I think that's probably It's probably accurate.

Sounds like she needs that.

Yeah. And guess what? When you lie and deceive and cheat and hide Target bags under the bed, then it's not cute when you're 60.

It's just dysfunctional.

It's corrupt.

So, yeah, I I think he, you know,

I I I don't think he he should react any differently and but what they should do is put a game plan together that the two of them both have full transparency and they start handling their money together and then she can buy whatever that the two of them decide together that she can buy and he can buy whatever the two of them decide together that they can buy and so that we don't have to retire any dog food.

Yeah. Yeah, and that's the proper way of handling this is that not just get mad and become controlling, but get mad and go, "Okay, we're going to control this to the point that you don't do anything except that we do it together and I don't do anything except that we do it together." And that's the fix for this.

But I I, you know, it sounded like your reaction to my suggestion was that might work. You tell her you have a deadline and if you don't do it, I'm going to tell him.

Yes, I have been in the middle of um a little bit of stuff before where she's tried to hide something and I said, "No, you can't do that." And we won't help you with that and she didn't talk to me for months. Well, that's okay, too.

>> So, I was Okay. I mean, that because your other option is just be the rat.

Yeah. That's the third option. One is do nothing. Two is say you have till Friday or I'm going to tell him. That's not being a rat, that's being an adult.

I agree. And uh a rat is I sneak around behind her and use information on her against her and that's being a rat. But, just telling the truth in a dysfunctional situation to help clean it up, that's being an adult.

And think about this, their financial mess is going to become everyone's problem eventually.

She's already trying to make it their problem by >> worried about that. And that that you're in you are in the middle of this then say, "Hey, this is going to affect us.

It's already affecting us and we can't live like this anymore. You need to talk to her." I love you and I love Dad too much to participate in deception and in

things that are going to bring you all apart rather than together. They're going to cause you to be unsuccessful rather than successful. We want you to be successful and it starts with you coming clean and then you guys put together a plan and I'll coach you and be your cheerleader on how to do that if you want me to. But, you have until Friday, Mom.

Mhm. And then Saturday, my smiling face is going to be sitting there and on the front porch with a cup of coffee with Dad and you're going to know what we're talking about.

Yeah. And that's just because I'm not going to I'm not going to be a part of deception. That says things about me,

not about you and I'm not going to do that. And I love Dad too much to uh you

know, to be a part of something that's hurtful to him um just to protect you and somehow you're going to corner me like I'm 8 years old and I'm a rat. I'm not a rat.

I'm an adult. And this is dysfunction and we need to clean it up and we need to get transparency on it and alignment on it so we can work to the a forward future that is fun and successful again.

Joseph is in Athens, Georgia. How are you, Joseph?

I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I am 30 years old. I've lived my

life very frugally and I tried saving as much as I can. Um I currently have a mortgage, which is my only debt.

Um and I'm paying that off aggressively.

And I'm getting married in about a month. Good for you. >> And Thank you. My uh future wife will be coming in with a substantial amount of debt.

Um How much? And I have the about 220,000. >> Good lord, is she a doctor or a lawyer?

Um she'll be a pharmacist. All the debt is from student loans. Just for her school. She paid a lot for her pharmacy school. Okay, so she's going to make 135,000 a year, right?

About that. Yes, sir.

Almost like I've done this before.

And uh she's got $220,000 in debt and you make what?

Um it's ranged significantly over the last 4 years. Last year I made 450. Good for you. What do you do?

Um I own a roofing company. Good for you. Man, I love it. Yeah, you're printing money. And um How much do you have saved?

If I pull everything together, it's about 700,000.

>> And and non-retirement or does that include retirement?

Um there's about 50 in retirement and the rest is just stock accounts. Okay.

So after you get married, you could just write a check and pay off the student loan, right?

I could. Every time I go to well, based

on based on your teachings, um I would never do that until the day after we get married. Good. But, every time I go to

get that in order, sell stocks or things like that, um it's hard. Oh, yeah, makes

you want to throw up a little in the back of your mouth, yeah. Oh my gosh.

It's this buffer that you've built is really hard. I mean, you're you're a frugal saver and we're getting ready to go the opposite direction at 100 miles an hour. Of course, it makes your stomach come up in your throat. If it didn't, you'd be weird.

Yeah, that's Yeah. Now, were you guys aligned on the money values in general?

>> Going forward and never doing this again?

Um we are. Um it's pharmacy was always her dream and and she actually was on a full ride for undergrad and this is all grad school. And she got completely screwed then. Okay. It's all in-state. Oh, yeah. She paid She paid double, triple what she should have. Okay, it doesn't matter now, it's behind her. But, are you guys aligned we're never doing this again for any dream or anything or anything I want or never again?

I couldn't do I can't do it again. I can do it one time, honey, but if we if you think I'm going to live my whole life doing this,

We are completely aligned on we have no intent to ever have debt on anything ever again. And she's she's saying that loudly and with strength in her voice, not just going along with Joseph.

Completely bought in. Okay.

>> All right, cool. Yes, then that's what I would do, but I will also sympathize and empathize with you that you know, you're going to need a good stiff double shot of bourbon right after you do this. Oh my gosh. >> She's worth it and this sucks.

Yeah, this is She's worth every dime of it and but man, it's just that's hard. You've been working a long time to build this up.

>> back up. Man, oh, they'll be there in no time.

>> Speaking of things that make you want to throw up a little bit, tax season is here.

But, gross.

If you want some free checklists and guides that'll help you file, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes

and we'll help you with the process.

Doesn't cost a thing. I noticed the word was free. Did you notice that? Chris is with us in uh Miami. Hi, Chris. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um so, let me give you a little bit of what's going on. I'm 25. I just got out of jail 8 months ago.

Since then, I've been at a program which has been allowing me to work. They allow you to work uh after a certain period of time. So, I've been working about 6 months at a car wash or dealership or whatever.

Um I have a few certifications. I've

saved up 6K, like 6.6, but I have debt

and I'd say that's like around 13,000.

I could like break it down, but that's another thing I have going on. And I mentioned the certifications I have, but not it's not like but I just I'm kind of lost at finding a career, too. So, I'm basically just trying to like invest and change my life around and like that. So Good for you. Good for you. Way to go. I'm proud of you.

So, how long were you in jail? >> Aggravated.

I was in jail 10 months. For what? A felony?

Yes. Okay.

Do you want to know the charge? I don't care. If you want to tell me, it's fine.

Uh It was an aggravated battery and a and a grand theft auto. Okay. All right.

So, have you got all that kind of behavior stuff in your rearview mirror because that's going to be uh a condition for you to be successful.

I mean, obviously that has to be something we never go near again to be successful in a career and in business.

Agreed?

All right, of course. Okay. I mean, that's obvious, right?

Yes. Okay. Cool. I'm just going to say it out loud cuz I'll make sure we're all on the same page. So, I'm proud of you, man. Good for you.

So, we're going to get a clean fresh start. How old are you?

I'm 25. Okay. And you say you're working at a car wash now. What are you making now?

Uh 14 flat uh tips with tips. So Okay. All right.

Cool. And what do you do to get tips? Like super uh dry the windshield and all when they come through the car wash and run around and smile and make sure they get a super extra touch of niceness and and you're smiling and they give you a tip. Is that how that works?

Right. Yeah, basically. Yeah, lots of energy and eye contact and smiles and people skills, right?

Yes. That's a good thing to practice, by the way. That that works in the boardroom, that works at the car wash, that works at the table when you're serving in a restaurant, that works just about anywhere you go. Okay. So, that's a good thing to work through. Those are soft skills. >> Yeah. >> You need those. Now, um is the plan to continue to work there for a while or what's your plan right now?

Um the plan cuz I could be leaving the

program earliest in June, latest in December if I get an extension. The plan now is to save as much money as

possible. I'm around I'm at 6,000. I want to leave with 10,000. Good. So, the plan now is to save as much as possible for when I have to pay rent and start living on my own and find a career. Like I can't even stress that enough. >> Yeah, good for you. I like that a lot.

Okay, what are you thinking about doing as a career?

Um, I'm not sure. I I can tell you the couple of certifications I have. I have a certification in OSHA 10. I could join a union, be a welder. I heard that's a good thing. Um, I have a forklift certification and I just got certified in being a personal trainer. I had an interview. I didn't get the job, but um,

the people at the program are telling me just to keep going and keep and stay positive. So, those are the three certifications I have right now.

Okay. I have experience in other jobs, of course, but Okay, on the short term on the short term, I like the welding and the forklift because you're probably going to make 30 to 40 bucks an hour at either one of those.

Um, and the the personal trainer is going to take a while to build a book of business where you start making a living. Um, >> That's like a nights and weekends thing to start building up. >> that might be my side hustle and I practice some of those soft skills we're talking about and you know, you're interacting your people skills and so forth while there. The people skills.

Meanwhile, I'm driving a forklift 40 hours a week making 30, 40 bucks an hour. Uh, I'm looking for that right now if I'm you. So, the trade the good news is welding and and anything the trades where you're driving something, those kinds of things, there's a shortage of help right now and it's a really good job market for you. So, if I'm you, I'm going to start really looking for those two things right now, even though you're not going to start today. You're still in the program, but I want to know 16

people that are hiring forklift driving within a 30-mile or 40-mile radius if you're going to stay in the Miami area.

Um or if you're going to move, you know, up into Fort Lauderdale, where are we going? Where are we going to get that kind of a job? The good news is that's a big metropolitan market there, huge

market, one of the top five cities areas in the nation, and so lots of things happening there in commerce and welding and in forklifting. So, um I I want you to go, you know, practice those interviews, a bunch of them, and stay positive, and anybody you can get a connection to that'll give you a chance and give you a job. And then when you get there and you land that first position, it's very important that you become the best employee that company has ever had.

That they are so proud 6 months from the time they hire you that they gave you a shot because you're early, you leave late, you work hard while you're there, you're accident-free and careful,

you're kind to the people around you, you don't stir up crap, you get the work done and help everybody else get their work done. You're like a dream come true of an employee. That's

your job.

It's not just to do the job. You got to do the job plus everything else so that everybody's happy they gave Chris a shot at his new life.

And you know what will happen then?

What? 5 years from now, you'll own the forklift company.

Mhm. So, a friend of mine owns a forklift company right now. He doesn't have any branches where you are, but they're in seven cities, hundreds of millions of dollars. His father bought the forklift company, but he started as the janitor.

And worked his way from janitor to driving, to management, bought the forklift company.

His dad passed away a few years ago.

Buddy of mine runs the whole thing with his brothers. And and that's your that's your future.

That's your grandkids we're talking about.

But you it starts right now with Chris changing his life. That's where he That's where this can go. And it can start with something as simple as you're the best employee they've ever had. And by the way, start practicing that at the car wash today.

Those skills will transfer right over.

Everybody that's around you that's negative, stay away from them.

Everybody that's around you that's positive, you're going to become who you hang around with. When they're smiling and they're happy and they're grateful for the job, I'm grateful I got a towel in my hand and I'm not in the jail.

And I get to clean this windshield right now. And I am the happiest human being that's free on the planet right now. And

you know, you just got to just attitude of gratitude, who are you hanging out with, who you acting like, and then I want you to start reading books like a crazy man and applying yourself. I think you're going to do really well. I'm I'm excited for you. I think you're going to have a great new future. And part of the reason I think that is a guy like you that calls a show like this, you got a real shot, man.

The guys like you that don't call a show like this, they're going to be they're going to be back in jail.

They're going to have other problems. But when you reach out and you say, "How can I change my life? What can I do?" That's the guy that that's the guy that will goes and wins. You're the guy that they write books about later.

That's that's what you can be. So, you hang on. >> entry screens are some of the most inspiring from those that have been incarcerated and they come out, man.

They'll get you some leaky eyes.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Hang on, we're going to give you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. It has an assessment in it.

It's our gift to you. I want you to take the assessment. I want you to read the book. Remember, you become who you hang around with and what you read. So, choose

who you hang around with and what you read cuz 10 years later you're going to look just like them, buddy.

That's how it works.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Dave is with us in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hi Dave, how are you?

Yeah, I'm I'm doing well. Thanks thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. Um my my question

um is a financial question and and I guess a spiritual question. Okay. Um I was raised to respect both my parents. When my parents got divorced when I was nine, my dad never ever let me speak ill of my mother. Um he passed away in June. She's still alive and she's going through struggles right now and since December, we've come out of pocket almost $13,000 to pay for things for her and it's starting to to put a dent in our savings

and our planning. And I'm wondering where that line between respecting your parents and putting yourself in in jeopardy, where it ends. Mhm.

Well, you're a good man. You take after your dad. So, what has your mom gotten herself into this $13,000? What's the deal? Well, um she went into the hospital in um December with a with an illness.

She got out. She retired from her job

52. And instead of taking the life life cycle pension from her company, she took a cash lump sum option and she spent all of that in about 6 years.

How old is she now?

Uh she she's 76. Okay.

So, she's been living off of social security and any any amount of money that that I've been able to provide her and And Medicare?

And yep, and that as well. And so, you the the $13,000 was what Medicare didn't cover on the hospital stay?

So, $13,000, we're trying to move her up to the Raleigh area where we're at from Florida. Um so, we we tallied up how much it cost for the U-Haul. She's in the hospital again down in Florida. So, we tallied up like U-Hauls, flights, uh doctor visits that that weren't covered.

So, yeah, it's it's it's starting to become kind of a uh >> Okay, so she's currently in the hospital. And so, the $13,000 not happened yet, but that's what you think it's going to take to move her and clear up the mess. Although, it's happened already.

Oh, but and then so, there's more to come if you move her. >> Yes, correct.

Okay. Is her is does she own a home there? No no, sir. She's been renting uh since she moved to Florida. What's her social security every month?

Her income? >> Uh around 2,100.

Okay.

All right. Well, um so, let me pan back just a second and then we'll come in and actually work on the mechanics of how you can actually help her, okay? But let's pan back from the thing of honor your father and mother, the Bible says.

Um that does not mean that we honor dad

doing cocaine.

Okay? It means that we honor the position of father, not the misbehavior

of the individual who holds the position. It's the same as when we pray for our leaders, we don't necessarily have to like them personally or their politics, but we're still supposed to pray for our leaders.

Pray for the president. Right?

>> Mhm. And so I disagreed with almost nothing Joe Biden said, but I believe in praying for the president. So I prayed for Joe Biden, okay? You follow me? And that you could go go wherever you want to go with that. The same thing's true here. So we want to be honoring of the

position of mother, but that does not mean we participate in dysfunction or allow it or enable it or something along

those lines. So, having said that, now how does that play out in your situation? I think you're already on to it. What do you guys make a year?

Um we're about uh $250,000 a year.

>> And how much money do you guys have saved in your nest egg?

Uh close to 2.2 million.

>> Okay, so you don't have a financial problem due to mom. You have an aggravation.

And it's an aggravation as well as um you know, a lot of our our short-term savings where you know, you build up uh You have $2 million, shut up. >> The next paycheck will refill that, no problem.

>> is not a problem, okay? We'll figure this out. All right, so but having said that, so you're really not going to go hungry because of this, but we've got to put something reasonable. So I would move mom up there, write a check. Honestly, if I got $2 million, there ain't no U-Haul involved.

I'm paying somebody else to do the move.

But you do whatever you want to do. I'm not I'm not taking my pickup down there.

But um you do whatever you want to do.

But that's that's me. So, anyway, I'm going to get her up there, get the hospital bills cleaned up, and then say, "Okay, Mom, you are dependent on us

to be able to exist. So, that means I am now managing your budget."

So, your $2,000 that comes in, we're going to put you on a budget to live on that. We're going to find you a one-bedroom apartment that you live in near us, so you can come over and see us on Sundays and after church and we can have dinner and whatever, and you're going to be in a nice little apartment that you can afford on $2,000 a month.

You I'm we're going to manage your medical events with Medicare, and Mom

and I my wife and I we're going to help you a little bit here and there as we need be, but this is not an open checkbook. We're not in Congress, and we're actually going to manage this thing, and you're going to live on what you have to live on because you spent all your money.

And and then I'm going to help when I have to, but I'm not going to help because you misbehave. So, Mom, I'm going to help you with this budget, and you're going to have this much for food, and you're going to have this much for lights and water, and we're going to pay your rent, and you're going to have Is she still driving?

Yeah, she's she's capable of driving.

Does she have a car?

Yes, she does. Okay, so we're going to keep the car up. We're going to keep insurance on it. You got to put gas in the car, Mom, and so you're going to live on that, which means you're going to have a fairly meager life, but that's what you signed up for in this process.

But I will make sure that you're not homeless or hungry.

Yeah, and that's the That's the road we've been on. We We got the apartment uh 2 weeks ago. We moved her stuff up from Florida last week, and um unfortunately, during the packing process, she had to go into the hospital unexpectedly. So, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, but that's that's um you know, and so you've got X number of years to manage the relationship and the mathematics.

And that's the way you will honor your mother. But that does not but is not honoring to her for you to open up a checkbook and she gets $10,000 a month to blow.

Yeah, definitely I definitely agree with that. Yeah, nor were you planning to.

Yeah, you were that wasn't why you called. But yeah, I'm just I My point is this philosophical thing I hear sometimes people say in the name of honoring my father and mother, I'm going to justify my enabling. You're not doing that. You're not wanting to do that, but I'm for everyone else listening, I'm trying to put that out there. That is not what the Bible means on that.

And so nor what's your dad meant that

you were to not speak ill of her. And

you have done a good job of not speaking ill of her. You gave facts of things where she's messed up, but there was no drama in your voice.

You just got this thing I'm carrying and I I want to be a good person and be kind

to my own mother. And that's good. You know, you should. That makes you a good guy.

Yeah, you're there to make sure she's not homeless, prevent the catastrophe. No. But you're not there to also make her super comfortable and have a lavish lifestyle. And so there's a balance there and I think that boundary is is hard to set when it's your own mother and father.

>> No, but I just think you say this is what it is. And she doesn't have a lot of choices. You don't get a vote at this point. It's the life you set up for yourself.

Once you start taking my money, it's my vote. And so I'm Now I'm going to help you.

Now I'm going to love you well and you may or may not like the process, but I'm going to love you. You're going to protect her from herself at this point.

That's the way you honor her.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Bill is in Rochester, New York. Hey Bill, how are you?

Good sir, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, I wish I could say that. Um I retired uh beginning part of the year, so that January 1st from my job. Uh I've been doing part-time real estate uh for a couple of years. Now I'm doing it full-time, but it looks like I'm going to be making over the threshold for Social Security Administration to start taking back some of my income um through the real estate. Oh, you mean tax You mean not taking back the income.

You mean taxing it.

Correct. Yeah, where they tax it 50 cents on the dollar. Yeah. And I'm just wondering that by the the money has it started coming in from Social Security yet, do I

cancel the claim and just stay with the real estate or do I keep that Social Security as like a security blanket, but then I'm going to end up paying a lot of money if I do as well as it looks like I'm going to.

So, you've already claimed it?

Um the claim is in. Okay. But it it

hasn't started yet. They lost my paperwork. Oh. So.

Well, I mean, if there's a way you can back out of this because of that, that's the way to do it cuz once you start, there's no stopping.

So, how much how much you making in the real estate business, Bill?

Um right now this this year I haven't made a lot. I'm like 700 bucks for one deal, but I've got one that's close under contract. My listing goes live this week, and and um I've got two other ones that I I mean, >> Chris, how much do you think you're going to make in the real estate business?

Well, I I'm at least $30,000.

Okay. I don't think $30,000 is going to break the means test, does it?

$24,000 is what they're saying.

>> Okay. Hm. And the taxes that they tax half of it,

but they don't the tax is not 50% half

of your Social Security becomes taxable.

Which is 30% of half or 20% of half.

Okay. So, what is how much is your Social Security supposed to be?

$2,800 a month. >> Okay. So, $1,400 becomes taxable

if you break the means. Is that right, George? Is that how it works? >> Yeah, but I'm looking at the the table here. It is up to 50% if you're making

25 to 34K as a single person.

>> 50% is taxable, not taxation.

>> Yes. >> Exactly. Right. The benefits of that. >> If you're in a 20% tax bracket, that means 20% of $1,400.

So, $280.

A month. So, $3,000 a year

is the tax bill.

Whoopee.

And then I can make You can make it whatever you want to make.

Oh, I thought it was taxed on how much I

made over the 24.

No, you you said 50% of the social security becomes taxable, right, George?

Yes. So, under 25K 0%. It's that 25K up

to 34K is what's taxable up to 50% of

the benefits.

The 50% of the benefits become taxable.

So, if you go make $100,000 or you go make $70,000 in a real estate business, $1,400 a month becomes taxable, right, George?

>> Yeah. Okay. And and if your tax bracket is 20%, it's your tax amount on $1,400

would be 20% of 1,400, which would be 280 bucks.

Which is about $3,000 a year.

So, I don't think it's going to be as awful as you think it is if you continue this. >> That's my point. Go make a bunch of money. And it's I'm also seeing you can withdraw the application within the the first 12 months.

So, I think you're still good. If you don't need it right now and you want to work, then don't take it. Yeah, if you're going to go make a bunch of money and you don't want to deal with this, that's fine. But, my point is it's mathematically not that big a deal.

That's not That's That's not >> You're stepping over dollars to pick up a nickel, so it's not worth it. Don't don't don't don't let that be a demotivator to you. So, if you want to pull it, George is saying that he he's reading up on it right now while we're on the air. I don't know this, but he's saying we you can pull the app up in the first 12 months.

So, pull it if you want to pull it, but otherwise, go to your tax person and sit down and make sure the calculation I'm doing in my head on the air is correct cuz I could be screwing this up. It's possible.

Um and you can figure out exactly what it's going to be. If it's what I think it is though, it's about $3,000 a year if I understood the deal right if you go over $40,000, say. If you go make 40 or

50 grand, it's going to create an extra

uh taxation on half of your Social Security becomes taxable and if you're in a 20% tax bracket, then that would be 20% of $1,400 cuz 50% of 20 2,800 is

1,400. So, that's how I'm doing the math, but I could if I'm in case I'm messing it up, double-check it with a professional and then you can decide what you want to do, whether you want to pull the app or not. I'm pretty sure that's an accurate thing that you can pull the app up to 12 months though. >> Yeah, and it sounds like it didn't happen even gone through yet.

>> Yeah. So, you're fine. I'm not super concerned about that. >> it back and not fool with it if I were you cuz this real estate stuff could take off. No, it sound like you got some Sound like you're fooling around and making some money. That's awesome. That's fun. That's cool. I like that.

Andrew is in Indianapolis. Hi Andrew, how are you?

Hey Dave, I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

What's good? Uh I have a question about some student loan payoff strategies. Uh I currently have about $170,000 in student loan debt. Good lord, are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Uh I'm a software engineer, but I had a stay on my loan due to a co-signer bankruptcy and interest racked up on the uh private loan. Uh it's a private loan. >> Very unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah, so about 135 is a private loan and then

around 30 or so is is federal. What are you making now?

170. Oh, good.

Okay. So, when we get through with the call, I'm going to put you on hold and Christian, our phone screener, is going to pick up and put you in touch with the Y refi people that we advertise for.

And they specialize in student loan private student loans that are in default, recasting them, resetting them, and getting a lower interest rate. They also have a possibility, check on this, of a lump sum discount on your loan.

They know how to buy your loan out at a discount and let you buy it out at a discount.

And so, if it's 130, let's say you could buy it for 80, I want you to scrape together the 80 and take it out, if that could happen. So, when we get done with the call, that's your going to be your other assignment. But, let's go ahead and go into what your your question was.

Great. Yeah, so I actually already refinanced with your one provider at a 9.85% interest rate, and I just got it down to 5.81.

Okay. And my question is, I'm going to pay off the federal student loans in about 8 months. Um Good. I'm I'm you know, paying off very aggressively, about $5,000 a month. Good. Uh

and after I pay off my federal loans,

um I was wondering if you think I should aggressively pay off the private loans at $5,000 a month, or if you think it would be a good idea to pay off the or pay the minimum every month and invest about 4,000 or so into the S&P 500 or any investment, uh because I understand and then after 3 years, take out the, you know, sum for the remaining private student loans and pay it off, and then have potential upside from market gains. I understand that option one, just aggressively paying off the student loans, guarantees an equal rate to my or equal return to my interest rate.

Yeah. The math you left out of your equation is risk.

Right. And peace of mind. And so, here's the data point that I'll tell you. We studied and interviewed, researched 10,167 millionaires. Nine out of 10 of them became millionaires starting from nothing. The number of them that said, "I became millionaire became a millionaire by not paying off my debt

and instead investing to more quickly pay off my debt." The number of millionaires that actually did that plan was zero.

Out of 10,000.

So, no one that has money tries crap like you're trying to pull.

Instead, they just pay it off

and are free and then take a wonderful $170,000 income and get in attack mode and go build some

wealth cuz I got rid of all my stupid debt.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show, and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living in normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Roman and Jennifer on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

Hey guys, how are you?

Better than we deserve. >> I love it. Where do y'all live?

Jackson, Tennessee. >> Jackson, Tennessee. Just up the road.

Well, welcome. Good to have you guys.

Thanks, sir. >> And how much debt have you two paid off?

Uh $154,000.

>> I love it. And how long did that take you? 23 months. Good for you. Wow, that's quick. And your range of income during that 2 years? Uh we went from 148,000 to about 154. Good. What do

y'all do for a living?

I'm a teacher.

And uh I'm a district manager for a local uh convenience and uh QSR destination.

Excellent. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 154,000? Um boy, it was uh one car, uh one credit card, and 11 student loans. Wow. Did you sell anything to do this? Cuz that 75,000 a year Everything.

Did you sell the car? People thought we were going crazy. Like they literally thought >> We did not sell the car. Uh we had enough equity and we decided and she loves the car, so we decided to keep it.

Uh but we went through and realized we had a whole bunch of stuff in the house that we didn't need. Okay. >> just decided >> of the big-ticket items you guys sold?

Uh a couch, a chair, just a bunch of furniture items. We had multiple living room sets and had one and a half living rooms. We just figured it, we're we were had accumulated a lot over the years never really gotten rid of anything. So, we thought it was time to turn it around.

>> there wasn't any 15 or 20 thousand dollar items then. No, no. >> Okay. So, most of this was cash flow through your income.

We picked up, both of us picked up second jobs. He was DoorDashing and I worked at a T restaurant. >> Wow, look at you. And we cut our expenses to the bone.

>> Yeah. Cuz I mean, you made 150, but you paid off 75,000 a year and paid taxes.

Mhm. Gee.

Uh and and ate and ate food and stuff.

>> On occasion. We ate at home, Dave.

>> Yeah, I'm telling you. >> the restaurants. >> you. People thought we were weird.

>> Uh because you were. Because normal's broke. You don't want to be normal, you want to be weird. All right, guys. So, how did all How long y'all been married?

We'll be 20 years in May. Okay, but 2 years ago something happened. What happened to cut this loose?

Well, uh it was a about 2 weeks before our 40th birthday. She's 4 days older than me. Uh You married an older woman, you did. >> marry an older woman, that's right. >> Why is that? Yeah. Uh I was We were doing our taxes for 23 and we realized that we had the best year we'd ever had.

And we had nothing. Nothing left, it was all gone. And so, I just thought, you know, I got a I got a very good year-end bonus and decided, you know, what? This credit card is gone. We're going to get rid of it. And so, uh paid off the credit card and it took us a couple months to really kind of get on track uh with the entirety of the the

lifestyle uh after we paid that credit card off.

>> How'd you plug into the Ramsey stuff?

Well, we uh through my company actually offers a SmartDollar program. Oh, your company offers our stuff? Oh, wow. Okay, cool.

>> Uh and What company? Uh I I work for Dodge's Chicken. Oh, yeah. Okay. And so, we uh we have the SmartDollar program and I'm a I'm a very big advocate of it.

Uh we have a monthly meetings at all my stores and uh every time we we have one of those meetings, I've we play a little Dave video and we watch some of the stuff and try and get them engaged in the program. Uh so that hopefully we can help not just do this ourselves but share it with other the other folks that we're working with >> Yeah, way to go, man. >> the poster child. You've actually lived it.

I love it. Your story's the most inspirational part to them. They're going, "This guy did this plan? I'll do that video.

Wow. But it's been a it's been a great blessing. God has been with us the whole way.

It's been >> So that showed up at your company about the time you guys made this decision? A little bit before but I didn't really I didn't really dive in until about that window when I realized >> Okay, so when when you looked at the tax return you then you paid off the credit card you go, "Okay, I'm going to do that Ramsey stuff at work." Yes. Okay. Yes.

Cuz for those of you don't know, Smart Dollar is our program that companies buy as an HR benefit for their whole teams.

So like U-Haul, Costco, all of their employees have been through our Smart Dollar program or had it available to them anyway to go through and learn how to get out of debt, be on a budget, all the stuff we teach. So wow, man, WAY TO GO. PROUD OF YOU. THANK YOU. Very cool.

How's it feel to be free?

Weird. Like it's it's I had to change my

perspective because um How long ago were you 100% You're debt-free everything but the house now? >> Yeah, correct. How long ago were you debt-free everything but the house? Do you remember? Uh December 20th. No, I'm talking about before.

Like when you first got married. >> We weren't. No. >> So you've never been This is the first time in your adult lives. Your whole lives. >> Yeah, we we were the ones who kept the kept those student loans around like a pet. We thought it was something we're going to hang on to for the rest of our lives. Just make the minimums and let it ride. >> Yeah, unfortunately. Oh yeah, so you come out of school, get married with student loans. So you've been the whole time with debt up until 23 months ago

you turned it on and now you're debt-free. Yes, sir. Wow, that's so cool. >> guys have a goal of we're going to do this in under 2 years or was this just you guys went so hard you didn't realize it? >> Um we watched the video and anytime that I would make a bad decision he would remind me he would say cheetah and I would have to stop. >> We had to watch out for the cheetahs. had >> watch out for the cheetah. That was the keyword was cheetah.

>> That's burned in your memory after watching those videos. Yes. Cheetah!

Cheetah. And I would I'd know what he was talking about and I'd have to refocus. I love it.

>> We uh we took FPU in the fall of '24. Uh just want to shout out our director as uh Bonnie Droter. She was awesome. She really helped us out, so. >> Very cool. Very cool. All right, now that you've done it, you sacrificed really deep.

I mean, you went you went hard in the paint, man. I mean, this is hard. Uh was it worth it? Absolutely.

We were just discussing on the way up here. Um we almost don't even know how to make decisions based on what we want to do.

It's always been what we had to do. >> Yeah. Uh and so it's going to be a big paradigm shift for both of us figuring out how we do how we live our lives at our direction at this point cuz it's always been just doing what we can to get by.

And so it it's changed a lot for us.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's interesting.

What I want to do is What do you have to do? What do you have to do? Yeah. That's incredible. >> So, what will you do? What's the next What's the first big thing to celebrate?

Well, Dave, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to go play some golf. I like it. >> Because I gave up golf right after I picked it up and because it was too exp- I realized that was the first thing I'd get cut. Yeah.

Uh and so we cut the golf. So, I'm going to pick up golf again. This is our fourth time here being in Ramsey Solutions and every time we've seen him doing these and it just really inspired us to hey, let's just It's not It's all about the little things in life. You know, and so we don't have to do a big big thing to celebrate.

We're we're free. We're here together and this is the start of something new for us now. >> Amen.

So, Jennifer, who was the spender? Who's the saver? I'm the spender. Okay, me too.

>> Yes, I'm the spender. He's definitely He's He's my nerd and I love him. >> So, now that now that you're free, can you relax a little bit and enjoy it a little bit? >> I can't. I'm going to go get me some Cozy Earth sheets now. >> Yes.

Rachel and I talk about those. They're the best sheets I've ever owned. I'm excited. I That's That's all I've talked about. >> Yeah. Are they still Are they still advertising with us? Oh, yeah. They're fantastic.

Actually, we're going to get you a set.

Yeah.

Will spear you George will take care of that. >> I'll make sure it happens for you. If they're an advertiser, I can get you a set of sheets. I promise. Dave can just make it happen like that. Just like that. Not for the kids though. The parents >> ought to I think you I think you ought to celebrate, man. I mean, this is good.

I love that. This is great. If they get a shower out, they ought to at least give you some sheets.

32 million people just heard this. So, Yeah, all right. That's good. That's fantastic. >> Way to go, you guys. I'm proud of you. And you brought the kiddos. And what are their names and ages? Have them come up and join you. All right. We got Caitlyn, who's uh 19.

Uh Kayla, who's 17 18, sorry. And then

Carrie, who's 10. Okay. And they survived this 2-year 2 years of sacrifice. >> They did. We caught their senior years with it. So, it was tougher for them than it should have been. But, it's But, Caitlyn has cash flowed her first year of uh college. So, she did not sign a loan her first year. So, >> Love it. Where she in school? Uh Freed-Hardeman University. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, very good. Okay, perfect. Well, congratulations, you guys. We're proud of you. You're heroes.

Look at this family. This is a family that's free right here, man. They are free. They are free. They busted it. I

mean, you busted it. $154,000

paid off in 23 months making 148 to 154.

They didn't do nothing. Except get out of debt, man. That's impressive. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

>> ready? 3 2 1 WE'RE DEBT FREE!

YEAH!

INCREDIBLE. THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE, ladies and gentlemen. >> two Every Dollar subscriptions and some sheets from Cozy Earth. Man, they won big today. >> Yeah. Well, you got to make that all that connection happens and get this done now. >> Who needs game shows? Just come to your debt-free screen. That's how you win big around here. >> You get games and prizes.

Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 5:10, "And the God of grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you

have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm, and steadfast." Theodore Roosevelt said, "Courage is not having the strength to go on. It is going on when you don't have the strength. William is with us in Birmingham, Alabama. Hi, William. How are you?

I'm excellent, Dave. Yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I've got two kids in college.

I'm going to get them out both debt free. But, one of them's going to go on to med school, and I don't have that money set aside.

Okay. >> Looking for some directions and some advice. Okay. What's the conversation

been like with them?

Um Did you promise them, "Hey, I'll cover your your undergrad, but the rest is up to you?" No, there was never that that promise one way or another. I mean, we've we've talked about it, and they are willing to take on the the debt, and of course, I don't want to see them take on the debt, nor do I want to take on the debt. I wouldn't, for sure.

Um if they want to do it, it's of course up to them. They're grown at that point.

Um

Well, I mean, we have talked to uh more than 20 people over the certain last several years that have gone to med school without any student loan debt, and they've used several different methodologies.

Um the first thing is to get over the

idea that you have to go to the one

school that accepted you that happens to be the most expensive school in the freaking world.

Uh because when you go in to sit down with your MD, no one asks where you went

to school. You ask, "Can you fix my broken body?"

That's what you ask. Can you help me heal? That's what you ask. You don't ask I I honestly have One of my good personal friends is my personal physician. I have no idea where he went to med school and I've known him 15 years.

I don't care. >> he's going locally. Yeah, I don't care.

So, the point is I want him to go where the least expensive possible med school.

That's thing one.

Um thing two is look into what are called MD PhD programs.

And um not all med schools have them.

Some of them that have them are famous like Duke, very difficult to get in.

But if you can get into the PhD program

you become a uh a an employee of the university and

then med school is free.

But you're working as a you're working as a TA and working on a PhD as well

while you're working on the actual MD.

And so it's a it's a complicated process

but the bottom line of it is you get med school free cuz you're an employee.

And and that's how the program that's how the programs work. Those types and and it falls generally under fellowship programs, those types of things. So, I want to learn about that. I want to look at that. Um and an obvious one that is not necessarily popular but that is obvious and everyone knows about but not everyone elects is the military will pay for it if you join the military.

Got you. And um you know, but you're going to give up a few years of service to the military in return for >> in return after graduation and after you're an MD, you're going to serve as you know, in the uh in the medical field within the military. You're going to serve your country that way for a while because your country paid for your education. Uh but you can go free.

Uh that's the ways that I know of.

George, do you have any other methodologies that you can go and not take on the debt? Similarly to the military, there's one called the National Health Service Corps and it's similar where you serve in a underserved community after graduation and they'll cover your tuition. They reimburse but that's a reimbursement isn't it? They'll provide scholarships and there's loan repayment options but the scholarship route would be the one to go obviously to go debt-free.

So the key is doing a ton of research, cheaping the picking the cheapest school possible and then doing your best to cash flow it and they work part-time if they can and if you want to pitch in to help cover that you can but you're under no obligation.

Um but this is going to you're going to help them come up with a plan. >> Yeah if you if you've got cash that you can throw at to help them get through and you want to do that there's nothing wrong with that. Um or if you can find room in your budget or you know room in your asset base or something to help them and you want to do that that's okay. There's nothing illegal or or immoral about that or even against the Ramsey plan.

I don't mind a parent paying for grad school if that's what they want to do and you have the money.

No parent plus loans, no co-signers.

>> time I would do that. And here's the problem. We automatically assume I'm going to go $250,000 in debt to go to get an MD that I'm going to become an MD and I'm going to make a lot of money in as an MD.

Those are negative assumptions cuz everybody goes to med school doesn't graduate. Same with law school. We see a lot of that. >> Some people don't make it out and you know what does graduate? Whether you graduate or not those loans are still there.

No contingency of well if and when you graduate then you can pay us back otherwise. Yeah there's nothing like that and so you you know try flunking out of med school and having $150,000 worth of debt. That'll piss you off.

That's a bad plan. Oh and or come out

and you know the type of medicine you want to serve in is you know been taken over and socialized and it's very difficult to get a job making over 80 grand and you could have made that driving a you know as a diesel mechanic and you wouldn't have been $250,000 in debt. Um so you know, you don't want to go there. That's not the direct That's not how we want to build this out. So we don't build this out on oh, I'm automatically going to make $400,000 a year for the rest of my life.

No, you're not.

All right, Carrie is with us in Spokane, Washington. Hi Carrie, how are you?

Hi, good. Thanks for having me. Sure, how can we help?

Um so I we accepted placement of a

2-week-old low foster baby very unexpected as we had lost our license a

year prior, but she um was directly related to our adopted kiddo. Um so I was feeling really discouraged and cuz our plan came to a

halt then. Um and now we're kind of this was back in November. Now we're kind of picking up the pieces and just wondering for any advice on how to move on. >> come to a halt with a 2-week-old?

Well, we she cuz I needed a leave of absence from

work. Um and I still was making an income cuz we own our own business. So I'm still working doing some work from home. Um so

Okay, so you gave up your job to take in a foster child.

I didn't I still could have my job.

But I'm having a hard So we own our own business, so I can go back to I have gone back to work already. Just only three to four days a week.

And it's just really hard finding that family balance. Okay, does the state of Washington pay anything for foster care?

That they do, yeah, which is helpful.

How much? >> It's just less.

Um it is for her cuz of her needs it's like around $1,400.

Okay. >> But you were making a lot more than that. Yeah, but I am still making some. I work from home and I go in a few days a week.

It's just with her needs and the lack of child care. The balance is just >> is the timeline on this foster care?

Uh I probably won't know. I mean it's going to be a while, at least 18 months of her age. And then at actually at 18 months if she's still with us, she can go into daycare full time. So that will be helpful and it's cuz they don't take spots. There's not very many spots for infants in my area.

So. Um but I mean a 2-week-old So it sounds like the parent is gone.

Yeah. Yeah. So that the likelihood we have her will be a few more years if and then after you know, we just don't know what will happen. But we felt really obligated to take her in like we wanted to and it's so special, but um

I just feel like our our plight we were doing so good. We actually called >> there's a direct there's a direct cost to Yeah. this call on your life and you

you chose the you chose the call, you answered the call and with that goes the cost.

Yeah. I just feel so guilty going in more than I probably could go in one more day a week.

So this is not a financial question. You just want to be there more?

No, it's a financial question. She cut her pay substantially to take on a foster care. That's $1,400 a month.

Yeah, there's a problem.

But you just have to accept that that's what I chose to do.

You can't say it's so special and not take the math with it. The math goes with the special.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 281. Your Financial Stupidity Has To Stop Today! | April 2, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broken and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey [music] Show.

Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and co-host of the SmartMoney Happy Hour, my daughter, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Shelby is in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Shelby. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

Well, thanks for taking my call. I'm calling today um with a bit of a moral and financial question.

And I'm calling to see what is the best way for me to help my husband pay off his credit card debt that we have discovered recently.

We have discovered. What does that mean?

Well, I discovered >> Yeah, I found um unfortunately

uh I found some screenshots of sports betting and he ended up having to come forward with three credit cards um that added up to about $17,000.

Mhm. And unfortunately, this isn't the first time that I The last time I didn't

find it, he came to me and told me about it, but this isn't the first time we struggled with credit card debt.

Was that other time regarding sports betting? No, it was not. The last time um his company had used his credit card for on a trip and they paid him back and he just never Yeah. paid the card off. He just spent the money and How old are you guys? um so We're 25. How long you been married?

Uh going on 4 years. Okay. All right.

I'm so sorry, Shelby. >> his uh What's his reaction to

having lost $17,000 of the family money sports betting?

Well, he was hiding it from me for a really long time. Um, and then when I found it,

I grabbed our two babies and I got in

the car and I left and I told him to fix it. And uh we came back pretty quickly, but

um he has gotten He's doing great, honestly. He's got two jobs. He's working a full-time job during the day and then a job in the evening, a part-time job in the evenings.

Um, and he's been working his butt off.

I found it about 6 months ago, so he's been working his butt off for 6 months and he's got three cards down to one. Um, and there's still quite a bit left on it. But >> Okay, so it was originally 17,000 or now it's 17,000? It was originally 17, now

he's got it down to um under 15, just under 15. Okay. But in 6 months he's only paid 2,000 of it?

Yeah, uh because of uh

the issues that we were having, we were really behind on um bills and payments, and so we spent a couple months catching up. Okay. And then um we had just a

couple things Our Our hot water heater went out. Um, our We got in a car accident. Um, we had to go get a new car. There's just a few things he's those first couple months that Got you.

um took up the extra income that he was starting to bring in. Shelby, when you just mentioned that you guys were behind on bills, were you aware of that or did that come out with this secret credit

card and the gambling and everything?

Yes. Yeah, I I was aware of how short

So, he was actually unemployed at the time. I was the only one bringing in income. I work from home, and usually I work from home and I keep our kiddos, but he was um he was in between jobs and

>> Uh so I knew we were short. I just didn't know how short we were and I didn't have access to the bank account. I used to, but I just hadn't logged in in so long that What does he What does he do for a living? >> my account. Well, right now um he works for at a school and then in the evenings he works a retail job.

At a school?

Yes. >> Doing what? So he he does uh um he's a teacher's aide at a school.

Okay. All right.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> So part of the reason I'm calling is because I was approached by um my in-laws and they were kind of telling me that it would be better for us all around if I just took out a loan and we

paid off the card because the interest on this card is over 30% Mhm. and they

said if I take out a loan and cover it

and then we just pay back the bank with a lower interest rate, it would help us all around.

>> I make 50 a year. And what does he make?

Um now uh within the last few months he brings home um with the two jobs combined about $4,000 a month. >> Okay. So you're got about $90,000 coming in. And you said you bought a car in the middle of this? Did you take out a car payment in the middle of this?

I actually have just recently found you guys and I've just realized how dumb that was. Okay. Um but we

um Now you already knew how dumb it was.

You were behind and you had a 30% credit card and then you went and took out a car payment. You already knew that.

True. So how much do you owe on this stupid car?

Uh it's we've got 30,000. Okay.

All right. Um Okay. So there's a lot of things that need to happen here for you guys to get healthy financially and relationally and career-wise. There's a whole lot of negative things going on in this house.

And the 30% loan interest on the credit card is not your problem. It's the symptom of all these other problems.

So, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Well, I'd do a lot of different things. Um the first thing is is the two of you are going to start an every dollar budget tonight on our app and we're going to give you a free trial on it.

So, you guys can put it all together and you're going to lay out exactly where every dollar of your income is going to go this month before it comes to you.

You're going to have a plan for every dollar. You're not going out to eat.

You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as an extra job. You're not going on vacation. You're not doing anything. You are broke and screwed with your money

and you both have got to lean into this and clean it up as fast as possible.

Okay? That's [clears throat] thing one.

Thing two is with your marriage counselor, you need to get commitments from him that he's never on threat of ending your marriage going to do any betting sports betting ever again.

And he's never going to hide any debt from you ever again.

And we're going to be working together, so it's going to be very difficult for him to hide anything because we both are going to see every single thing that's going on. >> Yeah, and pulling credit reports every year. You know what I mean? And I would almost have him I mean, I don't know how how engaged this is cuz that I mean, the the this the sports betting world, it can be such a downward slope so fast.

But but what I would be wondering Shelby too, maybe you guys have talked about this. I just want to make sure that he's healthy in that way that that there's not some level of >> addiction addiction there and that and that itch he was trying to scratch, that excitement that he was doing sports betting. Like what is that about, right?

So, like that doing that work in the marriage counseling office is Could be that you were behind on your bills and he was trying to make some money fast to get the bills paid up. >> true, too. >> He could have been desperate stupidity.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So I I want I want a solid foundation laid, the things he's never going to do again, and the two of you see every single dollar every month for the rest of your lives.

>> Mhm. Neither one of you are in control, both of you are in control.

Okay? Lastly, you need to sell the car.

That was suicide.

You put a bullet in the gun and put it to your head. You need to sell this car immediately.

Stupid on steroids. You cannot afford a

$30,000 car. You have got to get rid of

this now. Oh my gosh, girl.

Uh that makes his sports betting look smart when you put it up beside this car. Oh my gosh. Neither one of them are smart. Oh, I hate them, too. And who who's who's the number one victim of sports betting? 25-year-old males. >> Yes. You got this. 25-year-old males.

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Christina is in Nashville. Hi Christina, how are you?

Hi Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Sure. How can we help?

Um going to do my best to get through this without crying. Um I am 46 years old and my husband and I

were married for 27 years and he passed away suddenly in a motor vehicle accident this past June. Oh my God.

I'm so sorry. >> So we have been Dave Ramsey fans for a very long time. I home-school and we're actually graduating our last child this May. Wow. And they've

all been through you know, Financial Peace University. Wow. Um so

the question that I have is I'm looking to probably having to go to work this summer now with the loss of his income and just I feel like with my age it's probably the most responsible thing to do. Um but I do have some life insurance we

received from his uh, employer who was a um

he was a Franklin firefighter. Mhm. And, um, then we also had a personal life insurance policy and he was never

super trusting of investing and so I I

don't really have a lot of experience with it, but I have a family friend who is a financial advisor and so he suggested that I, um, invest like a hundred thousand back in October just to start kind of learning on, but you know, a lot of people say not to make any big decisions for that first year and so I'm coming up on that year mark and needing to start making some decisions about, you know, going back to work and, um, well, it's not really going back to work, it's really going to work full-time for the first time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm just a little need some reassurance that, you know, the markets right now are a little scary, but >> [laughter] >> Markets are always a little scary. Um, how much is the total life insurance proceeds? >> Um, the total was five hundred thousand.

>> Mhm. Um, and right now I have a hundred thousand invested in mutual funds.

>> Mhm. Um, and then I have the other four

hundred thousand in a high interest, um,

account. >> Mhm. Um, Do you have any debt?

>> Um, we have no debt except for the car

that he actually bought me just before he died. Mhm. Um, and I owe on the car. >> 20,000. Okay. And um, you don't owe anything on your home?

No, we we actually paid our house off in 2015. Um, he was in the the army and we did a lot of house flipping when he was military and were able to just keep, you know, getting more and more, um, sweat equity.

I did the work all ourselves, so. Wow.

Huh. [sighs] Well, it it's, um,

I mean, it takes a year to be even breathe well and you're just now getting where you can take a deep breath.

Um and so you've been very wise and very careful. Good for you.

Um and um you know, you've [clears throat] walked with this last last child through the graduation, which is getting ready to come up here and a lot of milestones and a lot of tears. Um Yeah. So uh Yeah, I think your family friend gave you some good advice to dip your toe in the water and kind of get used to it.

Uh a little bit with a hundred. That's not a bad idea.

And um uh uh The second thing is there's two two things that come to mind immediately. One is pay off the car today.

Okay. Okay, you don't need to be carrying a car payment not when you've got that money. So you should take a little bit of that money out of that high yield and pay that car off today.

Okay, that's easy. >> Okay. You're not going [clears throat] to regret that and very few people would say that was dumb. Okay? So >> Yeah. Yeah, that payment has been like choking me every month. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is Exactly. Now, when you um

start your career, what's your plan there?

Um I'm hoping to get into um some sort

of a like high school counselor for homeschoolers um potentially.

Um I do have some background with um working from home as in medical transcription. So I could possibly even do just a medical office. Mhm.

Okay. With what you've investigated so far, do you think you can make enough to live on without touching this money?

Um I think so. I think um if I can get

something that were to pay about $20 an hour, I think um working full time I could do that. Um I do get a small pension um which is about $500.

>> Mhm. Um How have you been living during this year?

Um so we had some savings about 50,000

um is what I have in there right now.

And so um I get Social Security survivors for my son, um, and that will end in May. And that's where my biggest stressor is is that 1,800 is going to go away. And that's really been what's kind of been carrying me so that I don't have to really dip into Yeah. not, you know, our savings or Well, I would make plans to create an income large enough to at least live on as your first stage.

And then your second stage, create a career for this next phase of your life. Mhm.

For you.

And so, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up, you know? I mean, this is this is chapter two.

Uh, it isn't a chapter you wanted to write, but it is chapter two. And so, um, you know, let let's make, you know,

not just survival, um, let's go flourish. And uh, and you

know, uh, that'll be part of your healing and pro- process and everything.

>> Yeah, and the and the wild thing, Christina, is just like high-level math.

Kind of it's that that what is it, the rule of 72 that your money doubles every 7 years? Mhm. And so, you know, the 500,000 in 7 years will be a million if you don't touch it. And then in 14 years it'll be 2 million.

Right? So, if you could find something that you really could put your heart in, that you're passionate about, that you love, that you're good at, you have a good work environment, you're excited to go, right? And you do that for the next, you know, 10, 15 years, um, this money's

going to serve you really well at that point, right? >> know, you're going to get into 65 and have two or three million dollars if you watch what you're doing. Now, that assumes that the money is invested better than it is now. And that's what you're calling about. So, let's go let's go finally to that, okay? Now, when you're investing, um, it's, um,

I always think about the very first time I got behind the wheel of a car.

And my dad told me to push down on that to go and push down on that to stop.

Mhm. You know, and I didn't know what I was doing and I wasn't very good at it and um I threw gravel from the driveway up against the house and everything is spinning the tires, you know, everything. But but that didn't last long. That was a 5 minutes of that level of inexperience. And then within 10 minutes um we know we're learning the the little bit and then you know, by obviously by the time you're 16 you're driving the car on the road

and passing a driver's test and and you know, now I'm 65 and I don't have wrecks and so you know, I mean you know, so what what does that mean is the first time you do something it is

natural and wise to be fearful.

Mhm. That's normal.

But it doesn't mean it's bad to learn how to do it. The first time you rode a bicycle but then when you were teaching your children to ride a bicycle they were afraid but you weren't because you could hold the seat for a minute number one and then number two when you let them go you knew they weren't you know, you you knew you weren't they their life was not going to end. They were just going to fall over maybe, okay? Now they might act like with a drama but you know, but still.

emotionally experience more of the markets going up and the markets going down then you're going to get to used to riding a bicycle.

You know, and Mhm. So uh

I would have you learn as fast as you can learn and get comfortable by sitting with the financial advisor that you're using or getting a SmartVestor Pro that Ramsey ramseysolutions.com cuz they're going to have the heart of a teacher.

Whoever's helping you with your money must teach you.

Okay. You must learn and it's not complicated. That's the good news.

It's because in that knowledge is going to give you comfort.

And And high-level that he just put a hundred grand in mutual funds. That's good. >> Was that Was that your Was that you, Christina, saying that or Was that his advice? >> That was Yeah, that was his advice. I just And that's great. So, it's those types of accounts of diversification that you want, Christina. You always want to stay away from anything single stocks or something new like crypto or something like that where like you want to >> Okay. something that is very diverse.

So, index funds, you know, ETFs, good mutual funds, anything in that category

is is really going to be a safe bet overall. >> Just get you some good growth stock type mutual funds, but learn about the fund that you're putting the money in. Like has it been open since 1932 and in the last 27 years it's had two down years and 25 up years? That gives me a lot of comfort.

Oh, okay. That's a track record I can relax with.

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Go start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Stephanie is in

Olympia, Washington. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

Good. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I am calling to ask your advice on if I should keep working my part-time job in

order to pay off our debt faster or if I should stick to my plan of quitting my job probably in the next month so that I can focus on being a stay-at-home mom and homeschooling our kids.

Was this the original plan? Is this what you were working towards? Are you already homeschooling?

I was [clears throat] homeschooling. This year we put our kids in because we moved at the end of August, so it was a bit too chaotic and um we stopped homeschooling, put them in school. I work remote, so I'm at home.

But yeah, the original plan has always been that >> Okay, I'm sorry. If you work remote and you're at home and it's part-time, how many hours do you work at home?

Probably 12-ish a week. And I'm on salary >> prevent you from homeschooling? It doesn't.

It doesn't. I just I'm well, I'm pregnant right now. I'm 17 weeks pregnant with our fourth child.

So, it's more managing the home,

homeschooling, being able to focus on that. I kind of hit a point where I felt like I'm being pulled too many different directions, which is partly my own doing. I do a lot. But this is the first time my husband just got a new job. So, this is the first time that his income is like pretty settled. Like he's in his career.

It's It feels really good. Good. And What does he What does he make?

Right now, he makes about 47 an hour.

So, I think our take home We don't know.

He just got the job, but I think our typical take home is going to be around 83 to 85,000.

>> Yeah, that sounds right. Okay. Good.

>> Yes. And how much debt do you guys have?

>> What was the question? How much debt?

How much debt? We have about 28,500,

not including our home. And on what?

We have a personal loan for 14,500

that we used to buy him a car. This is about a month ago. And to pay off a little bit of credit card debt. And then we have one credit card that has about 12,400 and the other one that has about $300 on it. Mhm. And then we own a rental home as well, so we owe about um um

257 on that.

If you sold that, what is that worth?

It's probably worth around 360,

depending on what the market does over the summer. If I had uh three kids with one on the way and I don't have time to work 3 hours a day, uh I don't have time to manage a rental property. I'm going to sell that property and use that money to clean that up. >> the debt, yeah. And Stephanie, could you work through this >> my husband's plan.

>> Yeah, I'm on board with him. I would do that cuz that that'll take stress off you guys. And then that gives you the ability to stay home with no bills. And here's the other thing. You can't You also have to stop being inconsistent in your approach, okay? Here's what I mean.

Dave, we've been working hard to get out of debt. Two weeks ago, my husband bought a car on a loan.

>> Yeah, and then he Last weekend >> Hello, that doesn't come out of the same mouth, does it?

Yeah, and then he also went and bought a mower this last weekend for like 1,200.

So, I forgot that one. We also have that. Okay, this this stupidity has to stop. Otherwise, you're going to bleed out. Yeah, that's I think my struggle is that I feel like with our income, he thinks we'll we'll just sell the rental and we'll get out of debt, but I've just watched us sort of and so then I'm like, "We'll do the first three days >> the selling the rental and getting out of debt is only smart if you stop borrowing money and buying crap you can't afford.

Yeah, and I think that >> justify him buying a mower and a car.

Yeah. So, you guys have other issues that aren't just debt issues here. The two of you need to get aligned on where we're going to spend our money and that we're not borrowing money anymore, period.

Yeah, and I think that I'm more on that side and >> I know, I can tell. No, you're not either. No, no, you're not either. I'm I'm a spender, too. We're both spenders.

>> not going to eventually get there.

>> saying that's what her husband is saying. Yeah, so Stephanie, what I would do tonight is I would say I would have you two sit down, put the kids down, and just say, "Hey, where do we want to be in 2 years? What's a perfect world for us in 2 years?" Okay?

Yeah. >> we have no debt, we have very little stress financially because he's making a great income, we're budgeting it together, we have goals, you're home, homeschooling your kids, you got a 2-year-old at that point running around.

Like, like you guys need to paint a picture of where you guys want to go because here's the thing, here's what the red flag, honestly, that during this whole call that got me that I'm like, "Well, crap." It's the mo- the 20 the $1,200 mower.

just kind of made. That's the mindset that has to change between you guys, that we have to be so focused and so buckled down that we know exactly where every single dollar's going. And if we pay off this rental, we are we are agreeing for the rest of our lives that we are not going back in debt cuz you're exactly right, Stephanie, if your habits don't change and you guys just have a little fairy wand that sweeps this debt off, which is the the equity of the home, the rental 100% and I don't want all that hard work to go backwards.

So, so there's has to be agreement.

And so when we sell this rental and we pay off this and yeah, that that's the end of it. And then, Stephanie, if I were you, uh what else I would do is since you're only working 12 hours a week, I probably would work up until baby comes because uh not going to be homeschooling the kids in the summer. Uh we're in April now and so, you know, May's coming, kids will be out of school. Like, I just know it's hectic with kids in May, it's just nuts.

So, get done with the school year, continue to work, work through the summer a few hours a day, and then when baby comes and starting in August, then say, "I'm not going to be you know, if you guys choose to not work in August, then do that." But I would I would keep your job, personally, through the summer if I were you. Okay. What did you want to say, Dave? >> Okay.

Another way of um looking at this is the reason you're having to ask a question about whether or not you need to work while you're pregnant and you're homeschooling is not because of the income, it's because you continue to buy lawnmowers and cars you can't afford.

Yeah. So, you're actually working for those things.

Yeah, and I don't want to work for those things. I want to be able to work >> those things have to stop.

Yeah. Permanently.

And so, that's the two of you saying, "Sharon and I had this meeting and you

know, um you know, Zig Ziglar used to say that um

if you if you want a good marriage, you got to figure out that you're both on the same side. And so, yeah, we're both on the same side and the beside is we want to be where Rachel painted 2 years from now. And in order to get there, we have to be in agreement on what the path to get there looks like and it's no more borrowing. Mhm.

And that's exactly what's going on. And that's what has to stop. >> know what that is? That's the part of debt that is so frustrating when you talk to people is that they're working and they're working for for crap.

They're working for stuff. Mhm. Not for the value system that which they want to live. You know? >> number of times I've talked to a lady who wants to quit and go home and be with her kids >> Yes. >> and I'm like, "How much you know, we work with the work the math all the way down. It's $400 is all it is and and the the van payment's $400." Yeah.

>> Sell the stupid van. Don't worry about your working is for the van. >> the van, right. >> doing.

Sell stupid van and go home with your kids. >> Yes. Yep. >> You know, and so, it's well, I need the van.

No, you well, you you know, you can't have it both. Okay, you got to decide which one you want. You want the van or you want to work? >> And work for your values, people.

Do that. Let it Let that be the driver and not stuff and all this crap. Set that desired future out there 2 years like she was talking about and paint that in detail and then work to get there.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Lucy is with us in Detroit. Hi Lucy, how

are you?

>> [music] >> Good. How are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So, um I wanted to know what kind of student loans I should be pulling out for school um and how should I be financing for school? How old are you?

I'm just turned 20. Okay. Are you in school?

Yes, I'm in school currently. I'm uh finishing up my prerequisites for nursing. You're finishing out your what?

My prerequisite for nursing school.

>> Okay. Yeah. And then you've got a long you got a 4 years left after that, right? Yep. Yep. Okay. How are you paying for it now? Just the pre-reqs?

Um it's a lot of it I'm going to community college uh to save money um and uh a lot of it almost all of it

is covered by um like fast loan

financial aid. Okay. So, um I was just got done with talking to an advisor um and she told me I could do like the bridge to BSN program um at a

local university and it only take like uh 2 years to get my BSN um and that might be a lot cheaper instead of just transferring um just transferring straight in to university.

How much would that program be, do you know? Um for that program it's around 8 to

15,000.

Uh a semester or year? Or total for 2 years?

Per per semester. And it's four semesters?

Yes. Okay.

Are Are you working at all?

Yes, um I'm currently a pharmacy technician. Um I make about $22 an hour.

Um right now I'm working 20 hours a week only because the classes are getting pretty hard. So I'm just kind of trying to balancing out with the like homework and stuff that I have. >> Yeah. Are you How are you able to live on 20 hours a week?

Are you living at home? Um so I just actually moved back in with my

dad. He was closer to the schools

and we kind of came to an agreement that like you know nothing is going to get in

my way and like you know he's going to be chilling everything so I can just finish school and then save up to move out. Okay, so you're going to be able to live there for free while you go to school.

Yes, well >> That's good. as of right now but he has brought up rent. So that's been kind of an issue as well. Okay. Well, I mean that you know first thing we have to do is be able to eat and have a shelter. Okay, then the second thing we have to do is be able to pay for school and so what I would do I think your counselor is probably giving you pretty good advice. I'm going to look for a lot of different ways to get that degree and

and any possible grants but

we're not going to tell you here at Ramsey to get a student loan of any kind. We're going to tell you to avoid that at all costs. Okay? Because even if you

don't graduate because something happens and you're not able to graduate, you still have the student loan. Student loans are forever. You cannot get rid of them. They're a pain in the butt. I will tell you that your career choice of nursing is incredible as far as upside

potential, lots of flexibility. You're going to be able to do a lot of different things. You'll be able to take a 40-hour work week plus ER on the weekends and make 150 to 200,000 dollars a year if you watch what you're doing as you as you grow this career over time.

So you've got a great

field that you've chosen for a lot of

reasons. Uh Uh so, I want to encourage you to do that. The other thing is if you can get any kind of nursing certification, the cheapest possible way

and get employed at a hospital or a large medical practice, they'll probably pay pay for your tuition to continue.

Yes. Yep, absolutely. Um I was I I know

some people that work in the local hospitals in the area.

Um and everybody been offered positions as a pharmacy tech. Um only issue is that they're not really flexible on scheduling. I don't care. If If you're a pharmacy tech at the hospital and they're paying your tuition, you make the schedule work, kiddo.

Yeah. You go do it. >> Mhm. That's a $15,000 raise per

semester.

Right?

Mhm. So, you suck it up and make the schedule work. That's great money.

>> 2 years, Lucy, and it's getting >> do anything. >> You can be working nights and go I mean, you can You can do anything for just 2 years. You know what I mean? Like that's how I would look at it is I mean, how how quickly 2 years goes.

You know, you think about we're in 2026. 2024 was just like for just a snap. I mean, it was just so fast. So, do that, but I But if you have to cash flow any level of it, I mean, on the low end, I know eight grand is what you said per semester, but oh my gosh, if you can make which I wouldn't want you to do this, but I'm saying you can make two grand Door Dashing.

You know what I mean? Like you could find the cash to be able to cash flow and just talk to the financial aid office and say, "Hey, can I pay per semester?" Right? And look at it. But when you can get a job, what you're saying, in your field, working in any level of institution that is in there that's going to help pay for school, like that's A1 for me.

>> Dive in. >> That's it. And then get that degree and then get the next degree, you know, go LP, go RN, go all you know, go all the way through the whole process and, you know, keep moving up and keep moving up, keep adding to your education uh as long as they're paying for it and you're just work.

And so my point is you're making the least money you're ever going to make right now. If you'll stay on this track. But but roll up your sleeves and do what it takes to get this for free. Yes, take that uh farm pharmacy tech over there at

the hospital and they pick up your tuition to be a nurse. Absolutely.

All day long. And uh oh, I can't go to happy hour. Well, you didn't need to be at happy hour anyway. You need to be doing this stuff. So, this is good.

Yeah, absolutely. And uh and you know, if your dad wants to charge too much rent, then go get you a a roommate and move out. But if he's giving you something reasonable, it's 50 bucks or something just to whatever. Mhm. Um you know, but if you're if you're hustling like that and he's able to help you by just providing housing, that's a big help.

And you just take every one of these little tidbits and you put them all together and it keeps you from borrowing. But no student loans. No

student loans. You got to figure out a way to work around that. You have to slow down your process or you have to change your number of hours you're working or you have to do change where you're working or how you're working or something, but no student loans. You can do this.

You can figure it out. And when you do, you're going to look back and the 27-year-old version of you is going to really like this 20-year-old version of you. Because we talk to the 27-year-olds with $100,000 in student loan debt every single day and they don't like their old self.

And you don't want to do that. So, good question. Really good. I'm excited for you, Lucy. Jane is in Phoenix. Hi, Jane.

How are you?

I'm doing well, Dave and Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

All right. So, we are on baby step two.

We have about 36K left in consumer debt.

Um my husband makes about 6K a month and I'm a stay-at-home homeschool mom.

Um we have had just kind of a crazy

series of events happening and our emergency fund is drained um due to our fridge, range, dishwasher, both vehicles all breaking within the last 2 months.

And my husband got a new job which praise God you know has brought in money to help with some of those things but his stepdad passed away and the funeral is out of state and just for him to get there it will take about 500 $600 due to

flights and then a hotel.

So I'm calling to see I want to honor our parents. He wasn't extremely close with his stepdad but we want to honor our parents and I don't want to you know encourage him to go or not go if that is not wise financially and then

yeah and he's also just kind of wrestling with it too. We're really trying to stay on track to get this paid off and I would go.

I would go. You got the 500 bucks, right? We can sell one of our beater cars is what we can do. Yeah.

I would do that. >> I would go. Man, you guys made it so easy. All right.

>> [laughter] >> You never regret going to a funeral.

It's it's well especially something like that. It's it's not $5,000 and we're not flying 16 people to Italy.

I mean it's $500 and you're sending just him to be really near his mom near his mom

because his stepdaddy wasn't that close to the start with.

But and he's not going to be there very long. Yeah. I I hear you. I think it just I wanted to make sure cuz we like I said emergency's gone and we have like my my whole kitchen is torn apart so so just we wanted to be wise and not say oh emotionally Yeah but in 4 months your kitchen will be fixed.

You guys will be on the track you'll be on track paying it off and you you don't want to look back and think golly Yeah you can't you can't you can't unring this bell.

It's a good question though. I appreciate the dedication James. Yeah the the the way you have framed up the question and the amount and the situation is why we gave the answer we gave. >> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host.

Sadie is in Rochester, New York. Hey Sadie, what's up?

Hi Hi, um so I am currently

about three quarters of the way done with baby step number two. Um I've kind

of worked my way out of a little over a

hundred fifty thousand dollars worth of debt. Wow, good for you.

>> I I I have a job and a half I like to say. I do have a full-time and a part-time job. Mhm.

Um I'm ready both. I'm ready to get out of New York. I would like to move south.

Um with the sale of my home, I could

finish off baby step number two and number three. >> [sighs] >> My question is though um I after that I mean I do have a lump sum after both of those items are completed

of about seventy-five thousand dollars.

>> Mhm.

I could either buy a house Mhm. and have that comfort but have it be gone really the twenty percent Mhm. or I could rent

and invest in a rental property.

Um the location that I would like to head is tourist nation.

Um so an Airbnb or a rental or even an

apartment home would not go

unrented.

Um my problem is I am feel like I'm a bit of a control freak and I want that comfort of having something that's mine.

Mhm. But I am also losing that half job.

Um I do my full-time job is a remote um job so I'm able to >> Okay, so what do you make at your full-time job?

So I'm at sixty-sevenish >> And what do you make at the part-time job? Uh roughly twenty-five thousand.

>> Doing what?

Uh so I'm admin admin for a church office actually. Okay. And you're talking about moving where your ideal place if you bought a home and settled in? Not Airbnb, but you just bought a home. What would be your ideal location in the South?

I I really want to be on the beach somewhere in South Carolina. Okay. I mean, we we we have joked Myrtle Beach um just outside of Myrtle Beach though. I mean, somewhere like Conway Yeah. or somewhere like that would be my ideal living situation.

Okay. I like that. >> Um You said we. Who's we? Me and the other two.

Um >> [laughter and clears throat] >> So, I do have a little bit of muddy situation. Um I I have I have been married for a year and a half.

Um but we've never combined finances. Not for lack of trying on my part. Mhm. Um there just is that hindrance and and we've had the discussion of perhaps we just, you know,

we continue on. I mean, it the relationship is great. You know, we don't have any questions. Um I carry the

financial um the household finances.

Um he is on the road a lot. He's got his own business. He's got, you know, a lot of debt of his own that he handles.

Um so, when I say we, I do mean my

husband and I and um his two girls both

will be college age here fairly soon. Um

he does have college accounts set up for both of them already. Um so, that is not something that out of the proceeds of this house

I Do you guys Do you guys >> you're you're probably making a face at me. I'm not considering combining Do you

say Do you guys both own that home?

No. In New York? It was mine premarital.

It's yours. Okay. So, Yeah. when you buy

the home in South Carolina, is the plan that you are just going to be buying it and he'll just be living in there?

Under your name without any >> I I believe at that point I have kind of given a smidge of an ultimatum to say there will be a combined account, there will be a combined finance, you know, home account. I mean, it it can't just be an especially because I am losing

with the move. I'm not saying I'm I'm losing the income to be able to adequately >> He He's not got any He's not got any money to add to the down payment then.

No. No, he does not. Okay. All right.

Yeah, I I I think I'm I think I'm selling it and I'm buying a home in South Carolina.

And I think you already know that what's best for you is for the two of you to combine your finances and have full transparency and full weight together. Um, you know, and and whether

his name is on the title or not in most states, a married couple that buys a home, they they spouse has marital interest in the house anyway. Um, in the in the event of a divorce and so, you know, you're probably putting that 75,000 at risk, so to speak,

potentially. I mean, you could show a paper trail that you brought it from that you brought that money to the table from the thing in the event of a divorce and probably work it out, but I I don't know. But anyway, I I I I think the better answer is is to combine and go go

buy a house, kiddo, and and I think you'll also pick up some side work because I don't think you're going to you know, it's not like there's no churches in South Carolina that need a some admin help.

>> [laughter] >> Like there's a church on every corner in South Carolina. So, um >> I am open to gig work, you know, I I did a lot of Uber and, you know, Door Dash and things when I was first starting out on baby step. And we actually have a Ramsey approved realtor that we're talking to down in South Carolina already. So, I mean, I think we're taking the right steps.

>> Yeah, but I I would put the worry of letting go. Pay off all your debt, use whatever's left for your baby step two and three, and then use the balance for your down payment. And yeah, take all your proceeds and do that and combine your finances and I think you're setting up a good life. Yeah.

And ideally with what he's making a year, right? In a perfect world, as you combine, that's the power of working together financially.

to pay off debt, you're funding retirement together, you're just going to get ahead financially so much faster when you're working together. Even if he does have some debt and you may you guys may have to pay some of it off, but um but gosh, both of those incomes working in one household and looking at it as a household income um is going to be so helpful. Yeah.

That's incredible. So, guys, we keep telling you this over and over and she's obviously heard us say this, too, so we're not talking to her anymore at this point, but just to remind everybody out there that um that when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, Airtight Research, what we found over and over and over again is that 82% of the millionaires say that one of the reasons they became millionaires is working together in tandem, full disclosure, full transparency, pulling the wagon together with their spouse.

That means that only a handful of millionaires become millionaires in spite of their spouse.

And so, as I said earlier, you know, Zig Ziglar used to say, "Marriage is best if you understand we're both on the same side." And so, we're on the same side, the enemy's not in the house, the enemy's outside the house.

That alignment is not only so healthy for your relationship, it also is the highest data point

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Sarah's in Seattle. Hi Sarah, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Sure.

I um I'm kind of I'm I'm I'm recently in a divorce. Um I've been um divorced for about a year now and have three kids all going to college next year. Um I'm financially I'm doing pretty good. I I own my home outright.

It's a a $900,000 house.

I have about $8,000 in the bank. I make

$85,000 a year.

And um I'm kind of nervous about college. Each kid has a college account with about $60,000 in it, but you know, even even though they're all three are going to a state college, that's $120,000 for 4 years. And I'm

responsible for half of half, so a quarter of that is $90,000 for all three, and I just I really don't know how I'm going to do that. You I'm sorry, the caught you're responsible for half of half not counting the college funds?

No, including I mean yes yes, so >> Cuz you're responsible for 90, but you have 60?

No, I'm responsible for 90 because

you know, it's it's 30,000 a year for each kid.

Um and they're going to each be there for 4 years, right? So, that's 120 each

and then we have 60 for each so that leaves them 60 for their dad to pay half and me to pay half. That's 30 and so >> not they're not they're not planning on doing anything, the kids aren't?

Well, I mean Like working?

Oh, well, of course they work. They all work. They they pay for all of their activities, all of their We pay for their tuition and their food. Um and of

course the where they live and that is more than tuition nowadays. So, it's it's kind of putting me in a rough spot cuz I thought we did good planning financially for their college and come to find out it's it's not even really half. It's almost half, but um Well, Sarah, there's a little bit of me that's like, well, if we can't afford

the college, then I don't know if that's where they can go. So, maybe they go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer and that cuts >> Right. cuts it in half or more than half, you know?

And academic scholarships I mean I I I don't know what else to do because >> mean they can work while they're in school was my point.

Yeah, they definitely can. And I will pay for part of it.

It will. Yeah. You're right. It will. Um

my my question is because I own my house

and um would you would you ever think about Would should I refinance and just pull a little bit of money out and just pay for it? No? Okay. No, we need to work this out. We need to buy a college that we can afford between what you can put in, your ex-husband can put in, the college funds can put in and the kids can put in while working while they're there. Those are your four numbers that you can enter into the equation and then that will tell you where we can afford to go to school.

Oh, and by the way, where they live? Are you talking about the dorm or getting off campus apartments or Oh, the a dorm.

We're going the cheapest route, so the dorms. I mean, that's yeah, $15,000 a

semester including food. Yeah. Um [clears throat] Yeah, that sounds right. >> It's uh I Oh, no, 7,500 a semester with the >> So, where are they What school are we talking about?

Washington State, the cheapest school, one of the cheapest schools in the state. Yeah. No, so it's And same state tuition. No, I didn't I didn't think it The numbers you were giving me weren't some kind of crazy numbers. They're they're very reasonable. >> Right. But it's just that it adds up because the as you said, the Yeah, they tripled >> I mean, the the dorm and the food is as much as the tuition. And that's normal.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so, um they're

they're not within driving range of either one of you, are they? Where they could live with y'all? >> Mhm. No, unfortunately, no. It's It's like 5 hours away, so.

Um But um would you would you ever like if if I were to get married again and and um you know, move out of my home into another home, would would renting out my house and using that be some

something? I mean, cuz I'm kind of I'm I am dating somebody pretty seriously now and I I mean, that was another option where I could do that. >> think a million-dollar houses are rental house usually.

Well, in Seattle, it is. It's a It's a small house. I mean, you'd be shocked at what a million-dollar house looks like in Seattle. >> no, I'm not shocked at all. I'm just saying that's a that's a fairly expensive rental property even in Seattle. Um I'm not I'm not unaware of the Seattle [clears throat] prices. They're very expensive, but the um Right. But but,

you know, you have a million dollars on the table there. If you had a million dollars sitting in the middle of your table kitchen table and you were getting married and you had kids going to college and you were thinking about buying another home, you wouldn't say, "Oh, I'm going to use this money to buy a rental." Right. You would say, "I'm going to use this money for the next home and the kids going to college." Mhm.

You rental wouldn't even be on the list of options. The only reason rental's on the option is by default because you already own it, it makes you think about that. Correct. Yeah, and Sarah, I would say too, you know, when you break it down per semester what extra they're going to need, you know, there because they're going to be able to get through this 60 for the first 2 years.

So, that So, you saving some money and then you know, you don't have to have that money tomorrow, right? It's in 2 years. So, I understand, you know, you make 85 a year, but what can you set aside for 2 years, right?

>> And what can they set aside? >> And then what can they Yeah, and then and then and then your husband, right? So, your ex-husband. And so, as you guys all kind of form this together, the good news is again, you have you have some time on your side. This is not 60 grand that you have to have tomorrow. It's really in 2 years is when the when it's all going to be due. Yeah, so and and all of that is reduced by the 60,000

being used up is reduced by they don't need as much because they are working.

Right, that they don't even use it all. Yeah, yeah. >> Hey Sarah, you got a 4-year degree?

I do not. Okay.

Um Now, my ex did. Yeah, okay. I I have one, my wife has one, and everyone that I know just about in my personal life that is successful uh that has a 4-year degree worked while they were in school.

Right. It's like a normal It's a normal thing. >> And my kids my kids do work. All All three of them do.

They work 15 hours a week. >> they're lazy. I'm suggesting there's actual mathematics that are going to help you be able >> that that are able to help this solution help help you with this solution. And so, and it's really good for their character.

And Rachel, we found when we were doing a bunch of the studies and some of the research when we're putting together the borrowed future uh the student loan debacle, which she's not talking about student loans, but the Borrowed Future documentary that we got all the awards on. One of the things we found was the kids that work actually end up with higher grades. Yeah, higher GPAs. Yeah, and sir, and I would be asking them at Washington State what what can they be doing?

Could they cuz by the time they're a junior, and again, this is when the money kind of starts to like, okay, by junior year is when we're going to need some cash. Can they, you know, be an RA in the dorm, right? And part of their housing is paid for because of that. Like, what what creative things in the next 2 years while they're on campus can they figure out that they can plug into the university to help pay for some of this for the last 2 years of their school.

Mhm. They hired him as a janitor and employees got free tuition. Yep.

>> [laughter] >> He's like >> There you go. unbelie- I mean, I didn't That's so simple. I would The RA thing, a lot of people did, right? You know, the resident assistant, right? A lot of people did that. And you know, And even scholarships, I don't know. Like, just getting >> your brother worked in a mattress store selling mattresses. >> Mhm. He's our He's currently our family uh Talk about a conspiracy. All these years later, all these years later, he's still our family uh advisor on mattress purchases.

>> I know. And I need to I need to I need to corner him on the conspiracy about about mattress stores.

About mattress stores? >> Yeah, like the whole thing is like, who who literally goes to a store to buy a mattress? Now, most people don't, but they're everywhere. So, it's like, what's really happening?

What's really happening?

That's a good That's a good That's a good conspiracy. That's a good black hole to go to. >> There's Yeah, they're all laundering mafia money. >> You never know. No, I don't I don't I don't think so.

>> everywhere. That's the weird thing. How many people you see going into a mattress store? I have. >> gone in there and purchased mattresses myself. So, >> that's what I'm saying. Your mother bought a couple the other day. works and I he's a great source with my conspiracy. I need I need a corner him.

He'll never He's He's a member of the Illuminati. He'll never tell you. >> [laughter] [music]

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Dave in Massachusetts. My wife and I have two kids. Our oldest is currently in college at a state school, so we are paying in-state tuition. Our youngest is a senior and is looking at colleges in a different state, which means higher tuition. We own a second home in that state, but it's not our residence.

Should my wife and I get a divorce so we can change one of our permanent residences to that state and keep the other permanent residence in our state?

Doing so would save us over a hundred thousand dollars by paying in-state tuition for both kids. My wife and I love each other very much and the paperwork paperwork wouldn't change our relationship.

Wow. I don't know if I've ever heard this question before. >> Wow, I've heard it for different reasons that were similar. >> a legal divorce to pay [laughter] for the out-of-state college tuition.

>> [gasps] >> Oh lordy, no Dave. No Dave. I think if you can't afford the out-of-state tuition, y'all can't afford the college.

So looks like a >> Tell your kid no.

>> [laughter] >> Oh, there's a shocking concept.

You're before you divorce your wife, maybe you just tell your kid no.

>> [gasps] >> Oh my gosh.

>> How about no?

You can't go to You can't go to school over there. No.

That that settle I mean, that's a lot easier.

No. >> [laughter] >> Dude, you're weird.

I mean, who talks about divorcing their wife to get in-state tuition? For a kid for 4 years? Because you can't tell your own spoiled kid no.

That's whacked. Oh man. Yeah, Dave. I

don't think that Sorry, Dave in Massachusetts, not you Dave. That can get confusing quick. Mhm. [snorts] No.

Both of us are whacked, but for different reasons. Oh my [laughter] god.

>> [gasps] >> Oh yeah, Dave in Massachusetts, nope.

Nope. Nope. I would not go through a divorce. Um I wouldn't even tell your

wife you had that thought.

>> [laughter] >> That would be dangerous. You could wake up dead. Oh my gosh. >> oh man. I wonder how many people do that though, try to scam the system and like Well, people do it. I've heard of people like they don't want to pay alimony.

They want to keep getting the alimony from the previous marriage. And if they get married Oh, they lose the >> get married. So they just act like they're married and never get married or >> Sure. I hear that.

>> Or if we get divorced, we get a she her disability insurance will double. So we're going to get divorced so that we get twice the money from disability. Whatever. All these different >> I've heard the opposite.

>> different things happen. >> we need to get married for military purposes, like to have whatever spousal thing. You know what I mean? Like I've heard that kind of stuff.

Yeah, but never for a kid's college. Wow.

Yeah, Dave I'm >> It's a new one. New one something. >> your priorities really screwed up.

And so let's just start with telling your spoiled brat child no.

>> that I don't think the spoiled brat 18-year-old is asking his parents to get divorced. This is this is the dad. >> him to pay $100,000 to go across a state line. >> this is the dad's idea. Dad wrote it in.

>> I know. Dad wrote it in the divorce, but on Dad. I'm blaming Dad. Yeah, >> the whole thing the >> [laughter] >> I I agree. The whole thing the child's behavior is the father's fault. So, so let's just go with that. >> A child wanting to go to an out-of-state school for a hundred thousand dollars?

>> is not uh probably over the course of

probably over the course of a four years. But, I'm just saying this is the dad Don't you blame this on that 18-year-old. This is the dad's idea. So, no. I'm going to blame it on the whole dysfunctional family.

Yeah, all right. Wow, Hannah's in Rochester, New York. Hey, Hannah, what's up?

Hi, I'm just calling uh to ask a question about my student loans and what I should do. Okay.

So, um I'm currently a a registered nurse and my work actually pays a hundred fifty dollars a month towards um my loans.

>> Uh-huh. What's the balance on your loans?

Uh four thousand five hundred dollars.

Oh, wow.

I just have to pay the minimum for them to keep paying it, which is only it's six about sixty-two dollars a month.

Mhm. So, I didn't know if I should pay off

pay it off and not have the min and like

keep doing the minimum payment or if I Do you have the four thousand dollars in the bank account?

Uh no. Not right now. You're an RN, why

not? You make good money, don't you?

Yeah, we we have a um we bought a house

and we are getting back to doing better budgeting. Okay, good.

So, your question really is when I get back to better budgeting, do I put more on the student loan than the minimum payments given that the employer is paying some of it?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I would put I would put all I can. I you know, I'm going to work all list all of my debts.

Do you have other debts other than your home and the student loan? >> Um we just have about a thousand dollars. No car payments? >> Or No, no car payments and our house.

Okay, good. Okay, so I'm going to list the two debts, the thousand and the four thousand. First thing I'm going to do is pay minimum payments on the student loan and attack the one thousand dollar and get it gone in about a month and then I'm going to attack the student loan aggressively. But during those several months that you're knocking the student loan out, you're still going to get some of the benefit.

But no, I'm not going to keep the loan around like a pet >> for four years, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, the biggest thing is you want to be clear of this thing and you you know, you want to be have a you know, complete fresh clean start, okay?

Okay. Good for you. Thanks for asking the question. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Rogers in Branson, Missouri. Hey Roger, what's up?

Good afternoon. [clears throat] I've got a question for you, Dave. Okay.

I got seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars in cash.

I've got a million dollars in an IRA and every year I got to take money out of that anywhere from forty-three, forty-seven thousand dollars by month.

>> Required Required minimum distribution, so you're over seventy-three.

Yes, uh I'll be seventy-six. Got you.

>> Uh I just paid fourteen thousand dollars in income tax, which is fine. I have no debt. I have two credit cards. The only thing I get on there is gasoline and I pay that off soon as the bill comes. Got you. >> I never paid interest on a credit card.

I got a house and about nine hundred thousand dollars is worth that's paid for. >> How much of your million you get So you got a couple million dollar net worth.

Way to go, man.

It's about three million total.

>> Yeah, congratulations. How much of that did you inherit?

None. So it's called >> I take that back. My mother passed away at $60,000 about 4 years ago and I put that right in the bank. Never had So you're one of the great American millionaires that did it starting from nothing without inherited money. Congratulations, sir.

Well, you're to fault for that.

>> [laughter] >> It was something you My question is what do I do with the $750,000?

I have no children. My newest car is a

pickup truck. It's 10 years old. My wife's car is 23 years old. We live very

well on 32 acres of beautiful land

and I just don't trust banks with this bail-in, bail-out. Stock market to me is

like Vegas. Well, what's your what's your 401k in, honey?

It's It's with an insurance company, a major insurance company. And you trust insurance companies more than banks?

No, the financial part of it. I put a million dollars in there 20 years ago and I've been getting this money back and back and there's still over a million dollars in it. Yeah. So

it's worked out pretty well. But I mean insurance companies are less stable than banks.

Well, according to the report I get from the insurance company, they're loaded with money, billions and trillions of Well, that would be true, but so are the banks.

The answer to your question, sir, is I I do not have any money in insurance companies. All of my money is invested in mutual funds and in the stock market and in banks in high-yield savings

accounts. And so if you're literally sitting with that money stacked in your bedroom, you need to do something with it.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Arya is in Phoenix. [music] Hi Arya, how are you?

Hi I'm happy and doing good. How are you yourself? Better than I deserve. Is it Arya, is that correct?

Yes, Arya. Okay, cool. How can we help?

Um I just kind of had a question. So, a couple of years ago I got into a car accident that wasn't my fault and we should be settling here soon.

Um I don't know the exact amount of money that I'll be getting, but I know it'll be close if not over $100,000.

>> Wow. >> Um I'm 22. Yeah, it was it was a pretty bad accident. Um Are you recovered Are

you recovered? Are you okay?

Um I didn't break anything, but I do have long-term damage and I had a traumatic brain injury because of it.

Okay. So, is it affecting your income potential or anything like that?

Um not anymore. I was out of work for about 4 months, but since then I've been back at work.

Um so, like I'm physically capable to work and like mentally capable to work, but I do have issues with like my long-term and short-term memory.

Um and then I have some issues like with my spine and some uh like nerve damage around like my back and my neck. Do you think you're going to need any of this money to take care of you?

Yes. Okay.

For in what regard? What would you use it for?

Well, probably like more like chiropractic care cuz like I said, I'm I'm pretty okay for the most part, but I do still have like chronic pain basically for the last 3 years. Wow. Um

It's a bad bad wreck. >> After my accident, yeah, it was I So, I got T-boned. Um I got hit in my driver's side. I was uh left on a green light.

The guy was going about 40 miles an hour and he and I was his brick wall and he hit right in the middle of my driver's >> Oh. All right. So, um what's the chiropractic costing you?

Um well, I'm not going there right now.

Through my attorney, I was in care for about a year and a half. Um so, this was back in 2023 I mean, if you going going forward, huh? If If you're going forward, if you need some chiropractic care, what's it going to cost you?

Um I don't know because I don't I can't afford it right now like copay and stuff through my work. Um I don't even know if my work covers chiropractic care. I know I can do it independently for like probably 100 bucks a month. >> Okay. So and you make what?

I make $21 an hour. Okay. All right. So what I'm going to do is look at your budget if I'm you and and look find out about the chiropractic care what it's going to cost you what it's going to cost you out of pocket because you're going to need some adjustments apparently as you go forward, right?

Yeah. Okay. If you can cover that out of your income then that frees up the 100,000 or whatever to invest. If you can't then as

you invest that you're going to have to consider that you're going to need some off of it for your care.

Right. Best case scenario is you don't need this money and you can invest it, leave your hands off of it and let it grow.

So my question with that is after my accident I was out of work for about 4 months um and I didn't qualify for any

like disability or anything and so I got into some debt and then the car that I got after my accident I had it for about a year and the transmission went out on it and so it got repossessed cuz I couldn't afford the car payment and fixing it. So I have about like $18,000

in debt from the car cuz I only I didn't have it for very long and then also having to take out like personal loans and using credit cards just to survive.

Mhm. Um so I know that How much is the car repo of the 18?

Um I owe I think it's just under 11,000

on it now. And they'll probably settle that for around 3,000 cash.

But you need to get that in writing.

Call and say I got you know I can make you a cash offer to settle this. I can't pay the whole thing. Would you take 3,000? And they're going to argue and you're going to argue back, and you're going to come in, you know, back and forth, and and then give them a check and be done with it, but it'll be pennies on the dollar, okay?

And then your other stuff you can clean up for how much?

Um I mean that would be like the remaining thousand-ish. Now, some of it is in collections though, so I don't know how that I would just I would call and get a pay off and pay it off.

When when you get the money, okay? So, somewhere around 12,000 of your hundred thousand is going to go and you're going to be debt free. Now, what are you driving now?

Um I drive a 2006 Hyundai Tucson. Is it

paid for?

Yeah, I got it from my family friend. Um so, it's in my name, it's paid for, and then but it has some fixes I need to do on it, but I do want to get a new like

You may need You may need to move up but you may need to move up a little in car, so you may want to take some of this money to move up in car.

So, if you sold that car and put If you sold that car and put $10,000 with it,

then you'd have a pretty decent car, okay? And pay cash, no no more debt, okay? But so now we've used We've used 22,000 of your hundred.

Mhm. Okay? And then you need to set an emergency fund aside that you don't touch except for rainy days. So, you need probably $10,000 to do that, so now we've used 32.

All right? And so, you're going to have somewhere around $70,000 or so to invest

long term, but you'll have an emergency fund and upgraded car, zero debt.

And that the And that we If you don't have anything hovering over you that you knew probably can cash flow your chiropractic.

Okay. That makes sense?

Yeah. One of my goals, like this is because of the money and I'll be able to with it, is I want to go back to school, um and I want to get my association license, but I want to move back to my home state where all my family is.

So Good. >> know if it's smart for me to use part of that money to move there or >> well, a little bit, but keep it very, very conservative.

This money's going to go away quickly because we've almost spent a lot of it already just you and me talking.

Okay? So you have to be very careful because it'll it'll $4,000 and $5,000 itself away.

How much is the school? Do you know?

So I have a $12,000

um school fund from my grandparents that I'm able to use. When I was looking online just at current prices, it's probably going to cost like total price cuz it's a 2-year program um about 23,000.

So I'll be paying >> for the 2 years, yeah. For the 2 years? Okay, great. And then what does that what does that career pay when you get that completed?

When I was looking at jobs in the area, it's anywhere from 25 to 32 an hour.

Mhm.

Not much return on that.

You get 25 to 32 an hour at Target without getting the degree.

Not really cuz I want to get I have to get a certification license and I have to >> you can work at Target without getting the certification license and make as much as you will after you pay $23,000 for this license. So maybe you need to tool up and school up in something else that pays better.

Okay. Doesn't pay much.

I mean, that was like starting though cuz what I I would like to get my like I said license in laser hair removal, but once I get my advanced aesthetics license, I mean, there's other avenues I can go that's kind of just like my end point. >> Yeah, so I think I You need to have a $40 an hour goal here.

If you're going to spend money for education, it needs to take you to $40 pretty quick.

And I don't know if that I don't know that world, so I don't know if that's possible.

But Yeah, I'm not sure. I'd have to do Yeah, you mean you're going to have to really because you can't just spend $25,000 on a certification and then make $25 an hour when you can make that without a certification at Target.

Right. That's what I'm saying. So don't don't that's that's not a good investment. If it's $25 and it puts you into a program that in a few years you're making 40, okay, I'm with that. Okay.

But I don't you don't have to make 40 out of the gate, but you got to be thinking this through long term as to where this is taking you. But yes, generally speaking, if you think through education and it's going to cause your income to increase substantially due to the education, education would be a good use of this money. Yeah, and I think thinking long-term too saying, okay, you know, a goal would be in 5 years to be making 60,000 or 70,000. You know, whatever that is and then you back out from there.

there's you see a path forward that's very clear that after a year of this, I can step up to 32 an hour and then I step up to 35 and then I you know, you it may take you a year or two, but don't let the end goal be making 35 a year for

the rest of your life. >> Yeah. So you want to be making you want to be making more and again for that certification purposes to make sure you get the ROI out of it, but but yeah, my biggest word of caution is plan all this out because just like you said Dave, I'm like you can you'll spend 10,000 here and there and within five, six, seven transactions [music] it's gone. So stretch it as far as possible

with a with a really strict plan in place and put yourself on that strict plan. So if you're going to move, I'm only going to spend this much moving. So moving company that's going to help me has to stay within this this budget range. >> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Elizabeth in Wichita,

Kansas. Hi Elizabeth, how are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, um I'm thinking about selling my house.

Okay. Um I have 150 around $150,000 in equity. Mhm.

And I'm thinking about finding a house to buy cash.

For 150?

Mhm.

You can What's that look like in Wichita, Kansas?

Well, around you know, smaller towns around, it's not it it wouldn't be a shack.

Mhm. It would be It would be nice enough. Mhm. Like a step up from a shack? You know, >> [laughter] >> it wouldn't be a shack that's nice enough. Is it good? Like a good like a good house that you'd be happy in for the foreseeable future? Okay, good. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah, something that we would be happy in. We. Or I would. Okay. Oh, I.

All right. So, I mean, is there a we or an I? >> [laughter] >> There's a we. Um my husband and my four children.

Okay. Four kids and 150.

Yeah. Wow. And what's the motivation for this, Elizabeth? What's What's the What's the home you're currently in that you're not satisfied with?

Well, we are very satisfied with our home. Um it's beautiful. Mhm. It's It's big.

Um but I'm I'm looking for ways to

simplify.

Okay. That's Yeah, that's great.

>> How old are your kids?

14, um 11, 6, and 2. And how many square feet is in the home that you currently live in?

Uh we've added a couple bedrooms, so as of right now around like 3,200 square ft.

>> Mhm. And the uh $150,000 cash home will

buy what kind of square footage?

Um I mean, I would say probably around 2,000 square ft.

So, it would be a big downsize, but we can also work on adding square footage.

Her husband's in the construction business? He's not, but he is He He works well, I

mean, he can do those things and um I grew up with parents who did rentals, so they know everything. This house we added two bedrooms, we added egress windows, and Yeah, so we can do those kind of >> I'm just curious as to why would you downgrade to add on if you're already

have >> I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily I mean, as long as we were comfortable, as long as we had enough bedrooms. Okay. Um

I've got two girls and two boys, so you know, um we can share bedrooms and and whatnot.

Yeah. So, what's your household income?

Um my husband makes 130,

um and that's gross. He

uh he's a UPS driver, so he works for >> balance on your current mortgage is what? Uh 205.

And you guys are how old?

He'll be 36 and I'll be 34 in June.

Okay. All right. Well, there's a lot of windows through which you could analyze this when someone says they want to simplify. Okay? >> Yes, perfect. >> If you want If you want to be debt-free and the have no mortgage and you're willing to give up the extra comfort that the 3,200 versus the 2,000 house has, it to get to that goal,

that's one version of simplify. Another version of simplify is more of our friends the minimalists and you're just like I we want a simpler life in general

and one of the benefits of that is we don't have any debt.

Um that's fine because what you're describing your current life as is not anywhere near out of control. It's definitely very conservative.

There's nothing here that you you know, like we don't >> y'all could buckle down and pay this off in 2 and 1/2 3 years if you wanted to, you know. >> what if you put $50,000 a year on the debt and you were done in 4 years?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think my motivation is that

with with four kids and um my husband working so much, I really I want to live more. I want to have more I want to have more room to just spend time together and

you know, go to the lake, go fishing, stuff like >> And that means he doesn't have to work as much. Is that Is that what you mean? He So he he could pull back on work hours? Yes. And be home more.

If you Okay, that Okay, that's starting to make sense. That's a piece of the Okay, I get that. Okay. Yeah. And I And I stay home and I home school the four kids. So we're always together, but he's not there and it How many hours a week does he work?

That's a good question. I mean he definitely he he doesn't get home before 8:00 most nights.

Most nights he's out He's out driving till till 8:00. Okay, could he back off his hours, Elizabeth, and you guys still financially be okay?

Yes. I'm I'm sure that we could. It would just you know Like for a season. It just sounds like it would probably I would think from a logistical standpoint, it probably would be easier to cut back on some hours for a few years and be present at home while there's the kids going and then maybe pick it back up.

>> working he's working two jobs.

I'm he he works UPS. Oh, you said that. You said that. Okay. Yeah. >> So he doesn't have the option. He doesn't have the option of cutting back then. He's got to finish the truck run.

He's yeah, he's he's working what he has to work. So he's working 12 hours a day five days a week?

Approximately. Yeah.

So you got Saturday and Sunday to go to the lake. Yeah. Yep. You know, the house I will say the house is a lot of upkeep. That's another That's another con for it. I think that it just takes a lot of our time. So will the other one.

Right.

The 2,000 square [laughter] foot house is going to have as much upkeep as the 3,200 square foot house.

I really thought I was going to call you guys and you were going to be on my side and my I'm not [laughter] I'm not against you. I'm not against you. I'm just still haven't found the root I'm still looking for the root motivation.

For a minute there I thought you were trading the 3,200 for the 2,000 to get your husband back. But he doesn't really have that option.

He can't he unless he quits his job

he can't cut his hours.

Yeah. I mean, you know, he

kind of He could take a different route.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. He could take he he cover drives most of the time, so Okay, so he could take a different route and back his hours down. Why don't we just do that?

>> [laughter] >> Do it for six months Elizabeth and just see how it feels. And if it's off and you're and you guys are like, no, then you can ramp back up and then put the house for sale and that's great. It just feels like a lot of work. >> want to do it, what you're proposing is not evil. I'm just trying to figure out if it's going to give you what you want.

Or if you're if you're out of the you know, out of the frying pan into the fire here.

And so, you know, like yeah, I got my husband back, but now these kids are all crammed in the shoebox and I can't breathe. >> [laughter] >> Right. You know, and now I'm now I'm >> And I don't have a pantry and I don't have all this stuff. >> And and I can't you know, the stress level of four large teenagers in this house that's approximately half the size is different.

I mean, I'm okay with it, but I'm not sure if the trade-off is what you think it is. That's what I was trying to dig around and find out.

We're just trying to figure out why. The debt-free show. She's like, "Dave Ramsey's going to love this. I'm going to be debt-free. It's going to be an automatic yes." And we took the whole segment for you, Elizabeth. There you go. Either way, you're great.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

>> One of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro [music] in your corner that you trust. They'll help advise you the best moves to make your situation for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes.

Check it out. It's that time of year, folks. Go to ramsaysolutions.com/taxpro

to find CPAs and enrolled agents who are

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They've been vetted by us. You'll love it. ramsaysolutions.com/taxpro and you can find a pro in your area to help you if you've got a complicated return. >> [snorts] >> Scott's with us in Casper, Wyoming. Hi Scott, how are you?

I'm well, Dave. Thank you. Listen, um my

wife and I got married 45 years ago with 200 bucks in the bank and we owed about 15 grand. I just We're 69 now. I just

retired. I've got about

a little over 6 million in a traditional IRA and I'm not clear on exactly how what I should do with it. I can defer it until I'm 73

and take smaller or just take normal distributions at that point. I could um just cash out cash it out and um

pay the taxes or I could cash it out, I believe, and put it into a Roth IRA. And

um my my question is very simple. Which

Which Which one of those might be the best for my situation? Well, as you know, at 73 you've got required minimum distributions, RMDs, okay? That they're

going to require you to begin to pull down a certain percentage every year on

your 401ks and that's going to create a huge income for you because you've done so well. Congratulations.

I mean, wow. Look at you, man. Well done. Very well done. Okay, so that we

know is coming rig un- unless we go some kind of scorched earth thing, which I'm not going to recommend. So, I would just brace yourself and get ready for that.

Do you need any of the money in the meantime?

We don't have any debt. Okay. You have any other money other than this 6 million 401k?

Yes, sir. Um probably around 14 million

in US equities and ETFs, and roughly 20 some 25 million in real estate. All of that

debt free. Good night. What did you do for a living?

Uh that would be a story. Many different things. [laughter] Okay. So, To be honest, what we did was we just stayed in debt. >> here's your congratulations. You have absolutely slayed the dragon. I mean, this is amazing. Beautifully done. So,

starting with, you know, $15,000 in debt when we got married 45 years ago, and this is where we are. So, you're a classic you're a classic American millionaire. I'm just so proud of you.

Well done. Now, if you roll the 6

million all to a Roth IRA, 100% of it

[clears throat] you will pay taxes on that year, ordinary income.

And that's going to make you puke.

All right? When you see that when you see that tax bill, cuz it's going to be a $2 million tax bill.

Okay? Oh, yeah. And so, sit down with your tax professional, and I'm sure you have one, and start unpacking how we can move

some of the 6 million for a few years

to some period of time to get it all to Roth. I don't care if it's 10 years, 5 years, 20 years, where you can stomach the tax bill. You can actually pay the tax bill and roll all of it pay the tax bill out of your other assets.

Yeah, and that's what I would do. And so, if you rolled the 6 million Hmm, this is something to think about.

Look at this with your tax guy. You might go scorched earth on this one.

If you roll the whole thing over and pay 2 million out of your equities intact, pull it out and pay your taxes, you now have 6 million growing for the rest of your life tax-free.

And when you play place a beneficiary on

it, and you and your wife die and you leave it to your kids, they don't pay taxes on it.

And it's not an inherited IRA that has

to be withdrawn uh like >> under a trust, so >> you if they get a traditional if your kids get a traditional IRA handed to them, they have to withdraw it over the next 10 years.

Mhm. And and under the Biden Secure Act.

And so, they're going to pay taxes on it within 10 years.

I see. Okay. If you roll it all to Roth and you pay the taxes now, the growth on it tax-free will cover the tax bill within just a little while.

That's right. And so, I have moved mine. I did it more gradually than that, but I've got all of

mine in Roth.

And I did it so that it grows for me tax-free, but I'll probably never use it, and you'll probably never use this.

And so, it will go to Rachel and her siblings when I die completely tax-free, and they have no required distribution on it.

So, they can let it grow tax-free.

It can just sit there.

And it can get really awesome. Because that 6 million in 7 years, you're only 69, will be 12 million.

And in 7 more years, 14 years from now,

which is statistically you're likely to live that long, uh that 6 million will be 24 million.

All tax-free.

So, it might be worth you know, having a little bit of throw up in the back of your mouth and writing a tax check out of your other assets right now and doing it all in one year.

So visual. Well, I just it makes it makes me puke to think about giving the government $2 million cuz they're so freaking stupid. >> Stupid. But um but yeah, it's just

and it's my freaking money. It's not theirs. And then >> That you've already paid taxes on. >> Pay taxes like the rich. Kiss my butt.

And so liberals. And so anyway, the um

you know, you got it's just ridiculous.

So anyway, >> everyone to the show.

>> [laughter] >> I do too cuz you need to be educated.

But the um Wow. The >> [sighs and gasps] >> So yeah, I I want you to sit down with your tax guy and look at that idea.

Because when I move the stuff to Roth, I did it for the reason of it grows tax-free for me, but the actual huge benefit is that

it's a great estate planning tool. To

have your stuff in Roth.

Because your kids don't get hammered with the required distributions either. >> to pay What's the estate tax though?

Over $25 million would they start to have to pay? >> got estate tax problems that are different. >> Yeah, but out of a Roth but if a Roth moves over >> is taxable on estate tax also.

>> Even estate tax? >> Both of them are. That doesn't get Estate tax is different. This is income tax that we're talking about. Yeah, but he's got an estate tax problem. I'm sure you've got an estate tax planner and if you don't, you need to get one tomorrow um because you're definitely over all your exemption levels. So um

But yeah, way to go, dude. That's amazing. >> Man, you have absolutely killed it.

>> I love the like subtlety of I've got $6 million here and you're like, "Do you got anything else?" He's like, "Yeah, 25 25 [laughter] million more." >> million. >> Another 14 in ETN. Cash for Wyoming.

There you go. Well done, Scott.

>> but that's that's These are the millionaires. These are America's millionaires. And when you guys are watching political stuff and they say that the rich should be taxed. That's the guy you're talking about.

And it's not your money.

It's his money. He worked his whole life starting from nothing and invested wisely and built this. And

so taxing him on his death and taxing

him on his growth and taxing him and tax him and tax him and tax him and tax him and tax him. And and he ain't doing anything to you.

>> [laughter] >> You know? And but this just this this guy right here is my hero. I mean this is this is what we teach all of you to go be. But then you need to be aware that there are forces in the marketplace that don't like that.

Don't like you to be successful. So you have to fight against the estate tax problem.

And so but Scott, I'm just mad for you right now cuz there's a $2 million bill you're getting ready to pay. I think you're going to want to do it all at once though. And it would be ordinary income. So what would it be? Four 35? What what is that?

>> 35% Yeah. So it's going to be $2 million. I mean it's it's going to be over bit of it, I bet you. Mhm. Uh it's a lot. But the thing is I mean if that

if that $6 million grows >> 100% Yeah. >> you know, 20% like last year the market was up 24%, right? So if it's sitting in just S&P 500 so that'd be

uh 1.2 million next year that he got back and it's all tax-free. Mhm. Yeah.

>> And the sooner you get tax-free started the sooner it benefits you. So I think I'm going to want to do it now.

I got to I got to crunch the numbers a little bit more but I think I'm going to want to do it now.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

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Teresa is with us in Washington, D.C. Hi

Teresa, how are you?

Hi Rachel. Hi Dave. Um so my husband and

I are in baby step three and um I want to spend $400 on a new kitchen

appliance.

Um and my husband and I talked about it.

He's listening right now. Hi my love. Um Hi Teresa's husband. >> if it was a good idea or not.

Um okay, how much do you guys have saved?

We have $1,800 right now in our in our

savings account. And we have the cash in our checking account to cover it just fine. Okay. And what's the fully what's the goal for the 3 months?

What is this emergency fund? How like 1,800 to what? >> that we needed to write down a number for that. Um we only just finished baby step two. Um Okay.

>> Probably around 20,000. And what's your household income?

Uh about 50,000. 50,000.

Okay. Yes. All right. Hopefully that will be increasing soon, but Like why? And how much?

Um changing jobs and changing career situations. Okay. Um Yeah. So how much how much do you think it'll change?

Um I don't know. We would have to start before we could predict that. Okay. All right.

Um What's the appliance? I'm just curious.

It's a flour mill.

Oh. So it like mills wheat into flour.

>> Yeah. I got one I'll show you used. Um Oh. I got [laughter] a I got a 5-gallon bucket of that stuff in the in the closet from 2 years ago when Sharon had this fad. Um I promise I'll use it. I promise.

>> she said. Um >> [laughter] >> I I believe you will.

I will. I promise.

>> It's all It's all healthy, too. It's all healthy. Are they They don't let any of the little glutens in [laughter] it, you know. There's no little glutens and no low covids. So yeah, it's all It's all covid and gluten-free.

Oh my gosh. You people. [laughter] >> Teresa, you should have called Sharon.

Yeah. You should have called Sharon. Put her on. Put her on. I know. I know. I'm going to represent her. I'm serious. I'm going to go home and get the thing before she gets home and send it to you.

Um You should. That actually [laughter] would be a great That would be so funny.

And Sharon wouldn't miss it cuz she hasn't She wouldn't even She She would not She wouldn't know it's gone. >> That would be funny. People like 8 months from now she'll be going, "Hey, where's my Where's my little bread thing?" >> Give your address to Kelly. Gave it to a lady in Washington D.C. There was more deserving. >> I'll go I'll sneak it for you, Teresa.

So, here's the thing. Here's the thing. The thing that we always have to manage when we're managing these decisions is not the actual little issue of 400 bucks, but what it represents in our behavior,

in our standards, and in who we are,

okay? And so, you know, what Sharon and I would have said when we were at your place is we would have said, "If this isn't an emergency, we can't do it because we don't yet have an emergency fund." Mhm. And um and it is very odd that I actually own one of those things, but um >> long did it take y'all to get out of debt, Teresa? How long were y'all doing baby step two?

Four years. Ugh, I know. See, >> Almost to the day, actually.

>> So much sacrifice.

>> but it's just that the point is that you have to have your filter system that says, >> Yes, you do. >> "I'm going to make my decisions based on this set of fr- on this framework. Yes. And on this value system.

And so, you know, the you've been using the baby steps as your as your framework for making the decisions, and it would say that this is not an emergency, don't do it. Although, mathematically, it's not that big a deal. Mhm. >> Like you guys could and you're going to be fine.

>> you could do a lot of stuff that people could do, but >> but you don't want it to derail you is what you're saying in the The thing is, I don't I don't want to I just don't you you you've reset the way your brains work on money in a positive way, and this this this messes it up. I mean, this is falling off the wagon.

Yeah, for sure. >> They're not going into debt for it, though. >> No, but I mean, they're they're they're not going to make the decision through that framework. I wouldn't do it.

I would not buy it um because you know, it's not an emergency. It's not an emergency. And you don't have your an fund, and so you should not be buying luxury items that aren't an emergency. for four It's not $4,000. It's $400. It's not $400,000 either. It doesn't matter. But I'm saying for for four years of their lives they've been sacrificing to get out of debt, okay? And then we always say when you get out of debt >> have a tie. Rachel says buy, I say don't. I've got one in the closet.

>> Oh, no, there's Hold on, we have some audience. Who's a yes? >> The audience is saying don't buy.

>> Oh, no. Oh, I got one yes. Oh, no. >> I've got one thumbs up. Got a bunch of thumbs down. >> a lot of thumbs up. >> Audience participation. Rachel, you're losing. Shoot. You're losing. You're you're you're so kind and gentle.

>> that I'm kind and gentle. It's that I like the hard work and the exhaustion of what they've gone through. >> I need I need I need a homemade bread machine. Listen, [laughter] I'm telling you. >> That's what all this hard work was for.

>> Listen, I don't do it, but people that do it They don't. They put it in their closet. >> They They do They [laughter] love it.

You can stop yourself.

>> personally.

Shoot. I wish this was something that

>> pancakes and muffins galore for about a

90 days. HAVEN'T SEEN THEM SINCE.

>> [laughter]

>> OH, MAN. >> THE enthusiasm Oh. on the latest health

fad. Man. Yeah. I Teresa, it's fine.

That's fine. We're We're not making fun of you. We're making fun of me, okay?

But >> It's not a need. It's It's not You know, so if your emergency fund was completed and you could put it in the budget, yes.

Your emergency fund isn't completed, I wouldn't do it. I also wouldn't upgrade your couch for $400. I wouldn't upgrade your anything else for $400. It's not an emergency until you get this done. We stay Gazelle Intense until we finish baby step three. And that's what will get you to where you want to be. You've lived like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and buy a bread maker. Buy a mill. It's a mill. It's a mill.

You mill your own grain.

Yeah, I don't even want to ask questions cuz I don't want to I'm so not in >> You're going to have to get your mom to get it out and show you. I know I will on Easter. >> give it to you. You never know. I'd give it to Teresa. You might need it. Well, you could get Teresa's address and just ship it on over there, huh? Get it just in case.

Yeah, that's that's funny. And it the grain I it's like a 5-gallon bucket of paint. It's a 5-gallon bucket plastic bucket full of grain in the closet.

>> And the grain it's not like >> It's like grain. It's like grain. Like you went out in the field and picked the grain. You know, it's like Like the like the stem? It no, it's the seed.

>> seed of the grain. Yeah, it's grain.

Yeah. It's real. I mean it's but it and it's apparently pretty dormant cuz it's been sitting there a while, so. >> [laughter]

>> Oh, man.

It's so hard when that thing comes up.

>> And this is first world problems on steroids, right? >> when it is when people are very passionate about it and it's like they're For a minute for a minute they are. They're there and this is what they This is what they do, you know?

Um We definitely got the fever for it for a minute. >> Cuz I bet she does sourdough. I bet she makes sourdough with it, right? Can you do that or is that different? >> No, that's a feeder. Sourdough's a feeder. Yeah, shoot. Okay, I'm going to stop. I'm terrible at this stuff. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> Oh, Teresa.

It's fun. It's not going to kill you if you do it but it but you but but if you're if you're calling us to break the tie between you and your husband Rachel's on your husband's side and no one else is. I mean Rachel's on your side and everybody else is on your husband's side. But we do say sometimes to to families that have come all the way down in a debt-free scream like well, what are you going to do now that you're debt-free?

You know what I mean? Like we do ask that.

Well, I'm just saying the idea of getting past baby step two is an event.

It is a thing and so if there's something that is reasonable you can pay cash for that you're like, okay, yes, we're saving up the emergency on all but in the checking account we have this, and I can do a little splurge to like celebrate that we're debt-free.

I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. You got, you know, you have a tie on the air and off the air or you lose, you know.

The audi- the au- audience is not with you. I'm trying.

>> [laughter] >> Trying, Teresa. Oh, Teresa, that's fun. I I would have guessed wrong. I thought she was going to buy the uh the $400 expensive blender, the Vitamix.

>> Oh, the Vitamix. I don't know if that's $400. >> That's about $400. I'll say we got an air fryer.

Okay. >> That's pretty life-changing. It wasn't $400, but it's pretty great. Okay.

Well, there you go. Well, that's a that's a kitchen uh yeah, the kitchen When we When we I remember when I was a kid and we moved and we had a box that said on the side of it seldom used kitchen appliances. James, I bet y'all have a mill. >> you need to be a minimalist.

James, do you have a mill? Not yet, but it's probably going to happen soon. >> Okay, yeah.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at

ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> Scripture of the day, Luke 11:9-10.

So, I say to you, ask and it'll be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be open to you. For everyone who asks receives, the one who seeks finds, and the one who knocks, the door will be open. Tony Robbins says successful people ask better questions, and as a result they get better answers.

So, question.

It's April Fools' Day when we're recording this. This is April the 1st. >> do a thing. You were? Okay.

And I'm just wondering if the bread making thing was an April Fools' joke.

>> I was going to be like, "Guys, during the break, Dave Ramsey loves taxes." And

he just wants to pay more. I want to pay more in taxes. >> Yeah. I'm like, "Hey." I'm a closet liberal. Or you show me your credit card or something, you know what I mean? That could be a good April Fools' April Fools' joke. >> would believe that. >> [laughter] >> It's not even It's not even It won't work. >> have told you I applied I don't know. I should have I should have come up with something. >> telling what you what you might have done, but >> today, America, that I missed out on.

So, I apologize. Well, I think the bread maker thing was a complete I think that lady was a complete >> No, it what No, Teresa wanted a bread maker. >> She really did. >> it. >> All right. A a meal. She wanted a meal.

Okay. Lisa, we'll see if Lisa's in here.

>> have got punked there. No. But I may have thrown my wife under the bus, which is something I don't do on the air, [laughter] too. So, that's not good, but you know. You'll have to apologize later.

That's the problem. Lisa in Springfield.

Hey, Lisa, what's up?

Hi. Um first I want to say thank you because if it hadn't been for me listening to you for the last, I don't know, decade or so, I would be in a much worse situation than I am now.

Um I am trying to figure out where to start.

I'm a little overwhelmed with my finances. It's not bad.

Um so Um my husband and I have listened to you for a long time. We had Xander insurance and um the only thing I regret is that I didn't up it when his pay was up because he probably doubled his pay by the time by when we first signed up for it and then he died on our vacation in an accident. Oh, wow.

>> Um this past summer. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh, my. And so we are baby step

millionaires. We're in good shape. So I had some life insurance.

I have a business that started as a hobby. I home school my three kids and I started my business while home schooling my kids and I am very good at what I do,

but not necessarily good at all the stuff that comes with business that you don't you don't know about until you're like in the middle of it and then you're like, oh, you're supposed to do this. Oh, you're supposed to do that. So I've been untangling that, but it was never a priority between home schooling, running a farm, and my husband made a very good income. We have no debt. Our home's paid off. Um It didn't matter. Mine was like a lucrative side hustle. Mhm. Now I lost

his income, the insurance, the health insurance. And all I have is my side

hustle and I I don't want to just burn through our life insurance money.

How much life insurance money did you get? Um 800,000. Okay, and everything's paid for. Were there other investments?

>> off I used some of that because I have an investment house that I owed 120 on,

um which I totally regretted taking out that loan after I did it. We cash flowed it total remodel of it, um but I used some of that life insurance. So I have like six or 700,000 I think in cash and

then a million in 401(k)s, but I'm only 50, so I can't touch any of that. >> Mhm. Okay.

Um my business like I've been overwhelmed.

I've not been doing a great job taking care of my business. Luckily, I have some great employees.

Um and I've always needed to get it a little more under control, but between homeschooling and

everything else, it just was never a priority. It felt too overwhelming.

Um well, one of them's engaged to be married. She's going to be 21 in a few weeks and then 17 14. They were Yeah, 17

14 boys. And so, what happened to the

700,000? Where is it?

So, I I got a Smart Vestor Pro Good. to

help me put together all the investments. So, right now he's got it in a mutual fund. There's like 600, I think and I have like $100,000 in my bank account, which I didn't realize how And so bad my And so, what

does it take you a month to live? What's your That's my problem. I don't even know. Like at first I was like we're just going to breathe. We've got money. We're going to and now I'm starting now 8 months in. I'm like, okay, we've got to figure it out and I don't hardly even know where to begin. I know it sounds terrible, but I've never actually budgeted. I only did it in my head and kept a running total and we've always lived so far below our means that it was >> Well, let's start.

What do you need in food? What do you need in food a month?

I I don't even know.

>> Oh, yeah, you do. Tell me what you need in food.

And then minus maybe You got two you have two teenagers and you.

No, $400 is not enough.

You probably spend two to three a week, do you think? On groceries? Maybe.

Maybe. I don't Yeah, I don't know. Okay, so you need 800, all right. And you don't have a house payment. And how much does your electric bill run?

Well, when it's real high, it's about 1,400. Okay. And how much is your water

bill? It's on well, right?

Yes, I don't have a water bill. Good. Okay. Do you have a gas bill?

Um No, only on the rental house and the rental property. house is a separate issue. I'm asking what takes to operate your home.

>> Okay. Okay, rental house will support itself. It's got a renter in it, doesn't it? Yeah, it's a short-term rental. >> Good. Okay. And so you just begin to ask questions like I was asking you and you fill out the form on every dollar in the budgeting app and you will look up and see how much you've got. And so I I think your 600,000 can create $60,000 a

year pretty easy.

And I think you might be able to live on that. And then your business will create some more. I'm trying to untangle my business because some of it, like my Venmo and my PayPal, that's how my clients pay me.

Sometimes I use it for personal, but mostly I use it for business. >> to completely separate your business from your personal.

Two separate Two separate accounts. I have a personal account and a business account. Personal Venmo, business Venmo.

Personal debit card, business debit card. And don't do anything in business with the personal and don't do anything in the personal with the business. Keep them completely separate.

And then you get less confused.

>> home, it's like more of a confusing because the business is at my home.

>> confusing at all.

When something happens in your home that's business, you know what it is and you know what's not.

Put it in the business account.

If it's business, if it's not, do it out of the personal account. Where it's located doesn't matter.

What kind of business is it, Lisa?

Um raise dogs.

You what?

Raise dogs. You raise dogs?

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, I raise dogs.

I think I Yeah, I gross about 500,000.

Okay. What kind of dog? >> That's not what I net.

Um Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, and Catahoulas.

>> Okay. Yeah, this should These are expensive pups. Okay. And so >> we do all the health testing and all the >> Yeah.

And all of that is a business and you have the the cost of the breeding and the vet bills and the food and the cleanup and everything else and the cost of your staff and um and you have the income created by the sale of the dogs. None of that is at home. It happens to be on your location there at the farm, but that's all.

Make sure you don't have this $500,000 hobby. No, it it does make a profit.

>> you know?

You don't even have a set of books.

Well, I do have QuickBooks. Okay. But, what's going into that? Are you putting personal stuff in QuickBooks?

Not my I have somebody that does all that for me. We started doing that about 3 years ago. She helped me untangle everything. Well, almost everything. I'm almost there. Yeah, I think you're closer than you think. Yeah, okay. So, here's the thing. Your stress level is going to go way down when you get this cleaned up, when you get the tangles combed out of this hair.

But, there's still a few tangles left and they're and they're tied into your grief story and into this tragedy and they're adding to your pain.

And so, the cleanliness of organization, extreme organization, is going to lower

your anxiety level. >> Yeah, and stay on the line, Lisa. Kelly will pick up and we'll get you every dollar for a year to start doing just on your personal side of running your home.

>> Yeah. To start putting in those numbers.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. So, we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, >> [music] >> and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, number one best-selling [music] author, Ramsey personality and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour is my [music] co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Darren and Ariel are with us in New York. Hi guys, how are you?

Okay. Thank you for having us.

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

It's such an honor to speak to you. You go, Ariel.

Well, we've read your books.

Um, we follow your plan.

However, I made some errors when I was went back

to school to obtain a degree and landed

myself in almost $300,000 of student

debt. And that's Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

I'm neither, unfortunately.

What [clears throat] are you? What what did you What degree did you get?

I'm a social worker.

For 300 grand? What do you make?

Uh, not nearly that. Um, I was My plan had been to, and this is

what I was encouraged to do by my professors, was to work for the government and do

10 years of working, you know, in a

nonprofit sector, but that hasn't worked

out. So, here I find myself and we are

calling for guidance. Yeah. What do you make now? What's your household income between you and Darren?

Well, at the moment I'm not working. We have a 6-month-old. Uh-huh.

And Darren brings in

gross 107, right? $100,000 a year? Uh uh actually, but it comes out to 5 5,000

a month. And you live in the city in in Manhattan?

No, we live in a suburb. [clears throat] Yeah, we live in the suburb of New Jersey. Okay.

We have a paid-for house, so that

Well, that's nice. Y- Yeah, that Yeah, that that really it it helps.

>> What is it worth?

It's about 450. Yeah. And Darren, what do you do for a living?

I work for the government.

As I I have a Yeah, I work for um at

data analytics for the Department of Health. Okay. Cool. Cool.

Okay. And how long have you been doing that?

25 years. We're We're We're older. I'm I'm 50. My wife is 40, so it's We

We got married a few 3 years ago, and we have a a 6-month-old, and

you know, we want to pay this off in our lifetime, and we know you have a very practical advice, so, you know, that's why why we called. >> mean, what I always reach for is the basic sixth-grade math, right? Which is

there's two sides, income and outgo.

We've got a big hole, which is 300 grand. We've got a medium-sized shovel, which is 107.

Until you drop it into New Jersey, and that makes it a small shovel.

And um and a brand-new baby. And so, I'm starting to look, you know, where can we get income up and outgo down to throw the difference at this 300.

>> works Right, my husband works a second part-time job. And as I said, I also have a disability, so for me in New Jersey, drive I can't drive.

So, that's also part of the equation, where I was at my last couple of jobs I

was getting a negative return, which is

why I didn't go back after the baby was born. And what's the nature of your disability, huh?

Um, I had well, I have a seizure disorder which prevents me from driving.

>> Yeah, okay. All right. All right. That's >> [snorts] >> That's reality. Okay.

Wow. Okay, so you know, if I'm looking at your situation through your eyes for a second, um, I'm saying the more money we

can make, the faster we get out of this and that involves Darren maximizing his career and Ariel maximizing her career.

What is the most money we can possibly make? Does that involve a move? Does it involve the fact that data analytics is a very hot field and you might be worth 200k in the open market if you got away from the government.

It's a very hot field. And so, um, I'm

I'm just looking at all of those ideas.

>> With your current take home pay, this is going to take you 7 to 10 years. So, that's the issue here is the napkin math says you can throw 50 grand at this, it's done in 6 years.

But 50 grand is, you know, 4 grand a month and you're taking home five. >> have that You don't have Exactly. So, I'm just showing you the the length it will be shortened to a Dave's point if you can make more. And that might mean if Ariel can go make 70 grand as a social worker, it might be worth, you know, finding child care even if it costs you 30 so that you can get out of this faster.

Right. So, I I've never like unfortunately I'm provisionally licensed, you know, life etc. And

finding supervision having unfortunate

people Yeah, I I don't I don't know all the obstacles. You've got a lot of them.

But what I do know what I do know is is you need more income.

For sure, and I was looking into possibilities. I've been working freelance doing other things outside my field to try to bring in some income,

but unfortunately, freelance work has not been I mean, I've made money, but not nearly enough. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. So, I think you both have to sit down and do some soul searching about where we work, where can we work to make the most money to clean this up cuz it's not going away. You figured that part out.

That's why you called. And it goes away when you pay it off. And so, where we work and where we live.

And um >> [clears throat] >> those are the things that will impact this. Where we live has to do with cost of living, has to do with accessibility to jobs. This might be the perfect place. I don't know. You might find a place right around the corner that pays him 250 and a place right around the corner that pays you 100 in some other field even. I don't care. But if we suddenly go from 100 to 300, oh, ding

ding, we can knock this out and >> 2 years more than 2 or 3 years.

And that starts to get there. But it's going to require some kind of pretty dramatic shifts in your all's career tracks because the ones that you're on, uh you're going to be there a long time and it's going to be it's not going to be fun. Which which is why you called. It just breaks my heart to hear that any school is charging $300,000 for a degree in social work that might net you 50 grand a year.

Yeah. The math on that uh the ROI of some of these degrees is just not there.

And so, it starts with being very careful of where you go to school, why are you going to school? And I would just get the cheapest degree that allows me to do the work that I want to do.

Yeah, exactly. And um but I mean, that

that's how we That's if we could have talked to Ariel 10 years ago, you know.

>> turn back time. If we could turn back time. But the uh but the rest of you out there, take a lesson. So, actually study what the degree costs. Is there other ways I can get it? Other places I can get it? Because, you know, this is the job market for this degree.

And it's just horrible. You're right, George. It's highway robbery. And it's laughable that her professors of course they got a degree in social work. So, what do they know? You know, that their only out is you go take a job with the government, work there 10 years, and it'll that'll be forgiven.

But of course they don't even know how that works. Cuz they didn't do that. But uh They shouldn't be giving financial advice.

No, they shouldn't be giving any advice, which begs the begs the question why are they doing social work? But there you go.

Uh man, I'm sorry you guys are in this, but it is truly a income outgo flex on the equation. That's what it takes. That's what's going to take.

>> [music]

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>> You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet.

I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about.

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>> [music] >> Maggie is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

Hey Maggie, how are you?

I am good. How are y'all? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so my husband and I have found ourselves in kind of an interesting position where we differ in opinion at

baseline on which route to take. So, we

have a condo in California, and we are

currently renting it out. It's not on the market for sale, but our tenants

have expressed interest in purchasing it from us, um because they are looking for

a home to buy. Um now, >> we are it it is worth between 375 to 399. Okay.

All right. Um so, we are not financially

free. We're currently in baby step number two, nor are we currently receiving an ROI on our rental yet. Um

so, we wanted to know is our best overall path to sell this place, or should we keep renting it out? Yeah. Well, I can tell which you want which one you want to do. >> [laughter] >> Oh, yeah. >> And you're And by the way, you're right.

Uh you're right. You win the argument. So, let's talk about this for a second.

If in your situa- What do you owe on the condo?

Um we owe 309. Okay. So,

>> So, let's pretend that you didn't own this condo. And you had a $100,000 stacked in the middle of your kitchen table.

And you said, "Okay, honey,

we should go buy a condo in California and put $100,000 down and that won't rent for enough to pay the payment." Both of you would look at each other like you got one eye in the center of your head and say, "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard."

Right? Right. I I agree. >> not buy this condo as a rental.

It's a leftover from a former life before you moved to Sou- Sioux Falls, isn't it?

That is correct. Yeah, it was not >> Cuz nobody would do this on purpose.

Right. >> going to buy a $400,000 condo, you wouldn't buy it in California when you live in Sou- Sioux Falls, you buy it in Sioux Falls.

Right. >> And you would buy one that actually did gave you an ROI. So, there's just so much about this. There's like six great reasons to sell this and none to keep it. Long-distance landlords that are losing money. Nothing about this sounds fun to me to keep around as a toy.

Right. So, why does he want to keep it?

He thinks real estate's the answer to all your riches.

But he thinks that in time the return on

investment will be worth it.

>> Nope. And I understand that

you know, renting but the market in California with rent is California is the problem for me because the market

there even for landlords and renting is it's terrible. Mhm. Um and but he thinks that property value is

just going to go up and there's always going to be renters wanting to rent it.

>> Property values in real estate do not go up fast enough to offset a bad idea.

Uh yeah. And this is a bad idea. I love

real estate. The larger portion of my net worth is real estate. So, I'm big on real estate. I want you to own real estate. But, this real estate that you don't own this real estate, it owns you.

Right. >> This is a crappy situation. Yeah, sell it sell it sell it sell it. You win the argument Maggie, but you even knew that before you called.

I did but you know and I mean I it and it's not a haha I win you lose

>> No, I'm not saying that and you're not even >> I agree and and and because I mean I agree you know what >> I want you guys to get out of that.

Yeah, get out of that. Build you a big old pile of money, pay off your house and with your next pile of money if you want to go buy a nice condo there in Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls is a great market. Go buy a nice condo in there and pay cash for it and watch it go up in value and you'll make money every month and yeah, then real estate is a good investment. But, right now you got freaking consumer debt.

And this thing barely breaks even if everything works perfect.

Yeah, and that yeah, that's if everything works perfect. >> doesn't. >> of handed a handed a nice little um

out of left field type of situation >> out of jail free card. actually want to buy it. Will they buy it at the market value?

Uh we haven't well, this is super [clears throat] early in the conversation. Um but they're what we

were told was that their um

their looking price is well over, you

know, what the condo is worth on the market. >> Right. Okay, so here's the thing.

I love real estate and I'm telling you this is a bad deal.

I would get out of it if it was me.

Number one, I don't do long-distance landlording. The most of the time people get into that it's by default, not by plan, and that's how you got into it.

Number two, the thing is not ROI-ing.

Number three, you would never buy it again if you didn't own it today.

If you had this amount of money piled on the kitchen table, you would never go do this deal, not in a million years.

No sane person would.

It's a bad deal.

And so sell it, sell it, sell it. If this renter doesn't buy it, put it on the market and sell it anyway.

Get rid of it. And number four, you guys have a bunch of debt to pay off. And so you need this money to clean up the mess. So how much debt have you got?

Yes. So total >> Not counting your house.

Not counting my house, 108.

Oddly enough, you're debt-free.

Yeah, that's what I was like, we could, you know, if we sell this place And that's like $4,000 a month in payments.

Yeah. You talk about an ROI, $4,000 a

month in payments.

How long ago did you move out of this condo?

Um we moved out in the summer, July. Oh,

good. So you can still take uh personal residence no capital gain on it. Right. It hasn't been Yeah, it hasn't been a rental for that long.

>> Right. You got to get rid of You need to get rid of it before you lose that capital gains right.

Okay. Yeah, cuz you could take all this money that you can get on the table and pay zero taxes and throw it all at your debt and have a $4,000 a month change in position. This is This is a no-brainer.

That ROI is much faster.

>> Maggie, I'm right, but Maggie, haha, you are You're right. I mean, my gosh. I guess her hope is to play it back and she gets to say, "Well, Dave said." Well, and George said. I don't know if that's going to work, but >> All of America said. I mean, there's the math says. It doesn't even matter what my opinion is. What matters is the math.

This is just dumb math.

It's dumb. You would never put $100,000 in an investment in a three states over

that breaks even.

And and if something breaks, you go in the hole. Wow, you have $100,000 in consumer debt.

It's almost as if you borrowed money on a credit card and a car to go buy this condo. That's the way the balance sheet looks.

Crazy. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. You get rid of it. Bethany's in Salem, Oregon. Hey, Bethany.

Hi. How can we help?

I'm just looking for ideas for um

something I can do from home. I'm a full-time stay-at-home mom and wife of a four-month-old and just needing some extra income for some different things.

And with the money if you guys have any ideas to throw at me that I could try.

George has got much better ones than I do. Yeah, are you looking for something completely remote that you can do during nap times, that kind of thing?

Well, she If she's taking a nap, she's not working. Well, you're not you.

That baby. So, here's the problem.

Everybody wants the remote job they can do from the couch in their spare time.

But, the thing is the stuff that actually makes money I can keep my baby here and my husband works remote, too, upstairs. Okay.

>> the two of us, like the baby can be between us doing something or not What was your What was your former career?

I did CNA for about 4 years.

Okay, is there not some telemed stuff

that's pretty lucrative?

Telemed?

I haven't looked into that too much. The few things I've tried looking remotely as I've researched a few things I don't have enough experience at the resources I've looked into or I don't have enough degree cuz I don't have any college like formal education or anything. I just have my CNA license and the different places I've x amount of years of you know, working or they want this degree plus this or different options. So it's been kind of So if you can't work as a CNA remotely, you're going to have to shift completely to something else, which would be like virtual assisting, consulting, bookkeeping.

>> totally fine with taking up new skills. My my caveat is that I can't find someone that will take me on board. >> we've got a side hustle quiz to help you out. Go to ramseysolutions.com/sidehustle.

It'll start to give you some ideas on things you could do and I would try a few.

>> [music]

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Play. Courtney in Seattle, hi Courtney, how are you?

Hi, good. Thank you.

Good. How can we help?

Um thank you for taking my call. Um my husband and I are on baby step two and we have $86,000 in debt that will be paid off next year.

Um my husband is almost 40 and is worried about the fact that we only have a pension right now towards retirement.

Um at our age, how hardcore do we go towards retirement once our debt is paid off? And so do we still do uh the 15%

even though he has that pension?

>> putting money in retirement 2 years ago, right? No, we have not been able to put anything except we just have the pension. >> just after you start working on the debt, then you decide to worry about retirement?

That's weird.

I I agree. Okay. Yeah, so I mean that's not logical.

And And here's the thing, we're talking about 1 year.

You guys are going to be multi-millionaires if you follow this process through. You're not 60, you're 40. You got another 25 years at least of a working career.

That's plenty of time to build wealth, especially if you're debt free. Think about how how much margin that will free up for the rest of your life. >> Hey, put Have him, you and him get on the Ramsey Solutions website. Jump on the calculator for retirement.

And put in 15% of your household income.

What's your household income?

Um this year we just got both got good raises. This year it'll be 200, but he's actually getting another >> $30,000, $2,500 $30,000, $2,500 a month

for 20 years.

And so that that means you're going to start in 2 years, right? So it's 65

you that's 20 years from 45 to 65, right? $2,500 a month in good growth stock mutual funds. We suggest you put it in four types: growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. You've probably heard all this.

Mhm. Yeah. And when you invest in that, put that in the calculator, and you're going to see 2 and 1/2 million dollars.

Wow, okay. That makes it so much >> That's if you start a year from now. Yeah, that's if you if you wait until you're 45 years old because you followed this process and got out of debt. And guess what? You can't put $2,500 away right now cuz you got 86,000 freaking dollars in debt sucking the bone marrow out of your life.

Right. Yeah, so let's get let's get the patient healed, and then let's turn the office on.

Okay. That makes sense? >> Thank you. That's very helpful. Yeah, I know that's that that gives me a lot of for sure. >> Cuz what most people do, Courtney, is they go, "Well, I'll put 3% my investments and I'll try to throw some at the debt." And they end up doing nothing cuz there's no progress being made. On that basis with 200,000 and

86,000, I want you debt free in under 18

months.

We will definitely. We're able to sell the truck in June when my husband gets a promotion and he gets a um he gets a work vehicle. So that will be 25,000 gone in June. Um that will be huge. I already sold my car and driving a 20-year-old Camry at this point. Um so we're definitely making progress. This is the [clears throat] first month where we're really able to shove everything we have towards it. Yeah. Um I just started working full-time as a stay-at-home mom until my youngest went to kindergarten.

So, >> Here's the thing. You're not going to only make 200k for the next 40 years.

Right. Or 20 years. 20 years. You're going to get raises.

We did that with no raises. So, you're not going to end If you follow through and do exactly what we teach you to do, get out of debt, put 15% away, save for your kids' college, get the house paid off usually in about 7 or 8 years, and then you load up on this, you're going to have between 5 and 10 million dollars. >> Then you're talking about maxing out retirement accounts, catch-up contributions after 50, and so you guys are going to be just fine if you follow through with this plan. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. We've never been so motivated as you are now.

We tried to do this multiple times, and this is the only time we've actually started to succeed. So, You're going to do it. You're going to do it. I can tell, because I can tell you're going to do it.

You You got it all over you. You're going to go do it. And I want to hear from you when you're debt-free, and I want to hear from you when you're a Baby Steps Millionaire, cuz you are on your way. Way to go. I'm proud of you. Hope is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Hope. What's up?

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Awesome. So, my husband and I are going to Financial Peace University and are on Baby Step 2. We've paid off our first debt in the snowball and want to continue with gazelle intensity, but we're expecting our first child in May.

Yay!

Post-delivery. Yay! Thank you so much.

Uh we have 4.5k in the emergency fund to act as a buffer for those known bills, but not knowing the full cost is difficult to plan for. After baby, we will become a single-income family in ministry. What are some practical ways for us to approach our emergency fund and the debt snowball and also becoming a single income household after the baby is born. What do you make?

Uh current cash take home between the two of us is 55k. What do you make?

>> And I make 35 of that in cash take home.

So, you're planning on this baby being skinny.

I hope so.

>> [laughter] >> You're the breadwinner right now. He's making 20k take home.

>> by 60%.

I want you to be a stay-at-home mom, but this is not a good plan.

Cuz what you just told me is how do we live on $1,600 a month? So, part of that is my husband's job

provides us with housing and pays all of our utilities. While you live at the poverty level. >> plan. Yes.

Okay. Again, I don't know that you can do that on $1,600 and build 80 82% of America's

pastors are bi-vocational.

Mhm. They have two jobs.

Because of what we're describing here.

So, your husband's going to be taking a second job.

Okay. I don't want you living at the poverty level. That's not my dream for you. And believe me, I love pastors. I love ministry and I love people that are called to the ministry. I spent the last week with three of my favorite pastors.

They were my buddies hanging out with me. And I just love them. And I'm a big fan of everything you're doing and who you are. I'm a Christian. I support our with my ties our church and make sure that they feed their people there where we're not having people on food stamps and you guys are right there, though.

Yeah. >> And and you're you know, you're you're just getting started in the ministry, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah.

So, I think the two of you have got to talk about what God what God's call on

your life looks like while you're doing this. It does it involve you going back to work? I hope not. I don't like that one. Does it involve him taking an extra job?

Does it involve his ministry playing out in a different way for now? Because first goal is take care of your own household, not the flock.

Mhm. His first job, your first job is feed that household, that baby, and that rent. And you guys are This is tight, kiddo. This is really, really tight.

>> That doesn't factor in the debt payments cuz you guys still have a a little mess to clean up. And so that just scares me to go day one, we're going to live off 1,600 while trying to pay off debt. So, I'm not going to tell you that that's a good plan cuz it's not. Um and the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them.

Mhm. So, what part of this whole thing is a blessing because I sense sorrow in the future here.

I I think there's wonderful things happening, a baby, a young marriage, a call to ministry. There's a lot of wonderful things happening, but the mind of man plans his ways, but the Lord directs his steps. So, you've got to lay out a game plan here, work like it all depends on you, and pray like it all depends on God. All right, God, I know you called me to this ministry. So, God, how are you going to fund our family?

Show me what I need to do as a work.

What what what harness do I need to put my shoulder to so that I can get this done? What tents have I got to make if we want to use the Paul analogy so that I can prepare my for my ministry? But uh you know, [music] I'm not even with pastoral housing, I'm not going to consign you to the poverty level and call that God's call on your life. I'm not going to do that.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Chris is in Seattle. Hi, Chris. How are you?

Hey Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? >> [music] >> Good, man. Hey, so my question is my

wife and I, we've been married for about 3 months. Um, we just bought a house uh this past weekend. Um, it at around 1.1 million outside Seattle. It's on five It's on five acres. Um, really close to our parents, close to my work. Um, Nice.

nice piece of nice piece of property that we're going to start homesteading on. Um, the thing that's on my mind is before we got married, she bought a home in Eastern Washington uh for about 500,000.

She still owes or we still owe about 350.

Um, and it's on about 38 acres of mostly forest with a nice patch pasture.

Um, it was kind of like a COVID buy for her, you know, when things got a little bit crazy. Um, she wanted a place that she could escape to.

Um, the issue is uh she there was a bad plumbing leak because of um, no heat and

burst pipes. So, now the home is uninhabitable.

Um, and it's costing us about 18 to

20,000 dollars a month. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Did she not have insurance?

Uh, that's a good question. I never I never thought about that actually. I think I think the pro- the thing is is the home is pretty run-down as it was.

Um, so they they were planning on gutting it anyway.

Um, Okay, so the value here is the 13 acres, not the lot, not the house. It's very 38

38 acres, I'm sure. >> Yes. So, you could push the house down and sell the 38 acres.

Yes. I just don't know if it's worth what she we still owe on it.

That's the problem. Well, I would find out.

Okay. So, you don't think it's Yeah, you think it's worth You don't think it's worth keeping as a No.

potentially long-term investment.

>> Yeah. >> No, it's a money pit.

Mhm.

You owe $175,000. If you had $175,000,

it Let's just pretend you didn't own this and you woke up in the morning and you said, I found a place we can get for $175,000 38 acres with nothing down and

pay payments on it.

You wouldn't do that.

Sure. That's what you've got.

>> Even if you think even if we're underwater on the house right now?

You would you still try to get rid of it? >> I'm sorry, house and acreage we don't think we're underwater, do we?

Uh You don't think it's worth even 350?

It's hard I don't think so now cuz it she bought it during the craze where everyone was trying to get out of the city. Okay, you're not operating on facts, you're operating on feelings. You need to have a real estate agent go out and tell you what this piece of property will bring. Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on uh Ramsey trusted for real estate agents and have one of them go out and look at it for you and say Chris, I think we can get $210,000 for this. Chris, I think it's going to bring $110,000.

And here's why. And then based on that, you can start making some decisions on but this does not sound to me like it's something I want to own.

Mhm. The longer you hang on to it, the more money you lose cuz you said you're bleeding two grand a month.

Yeah. >> Just to hang on to >> Yeah, interest interest rates around 2%.

I don't care what the interest rate is.

Yeah. It's an alligator. It eats money.

It doesn't produce money.

Right. Yeah, right now, yeah. Yeah, right now. I mean, it's going up in value, I hope, but not lately because the house is rotting down. Now, it's full of mold and everything else.

Right. Okay.

This is You just got married. You got a wonderful house. You have a wonderful life. Don't let this be a distraction.

This money pit throw a grenade in the middle of all the good stuff you're doing.

Sure. Cut it loose. >> of sunk cost fallacy. Exactly.

>> dumping money in to hopefully get out of the other side.

Andrew's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Andrew, how are you?

Pretty good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I have a CCW with and I carry

insurance for that CCW.

Um me and my wife, we are in baby step two right now, but we just learned about uh the insurance baby step in the class that we're in with our church. Mhm.

And I'm wondering, do I keep it or do I get rid of it?

Uh for the those that out there that don't know what he's talking about, it's concealed carry. Okay, and so you're carrying a firearm and you're carrying insurance in case God forbid you use the firearm and got sued, correct?

Correct. >> Yeah, okay. Um

well, the uh there are varying degrees of cost

on those things. Uh there's a couple of them that we've looked at. We actually endorsed one for a while.

Um that the cost is reasonable.

Uh there are some that the cost is unreasonable uh based on what I think you're getting for it. Um so >> I'm paying 25 bucks a month for it. All

right. And what's your household income?

Household income is about 40,000.

Okay. Uh that starts to be a lot at that point. So, what you have to ascertain is

um not whether you're going to carry or not because I think you are going to carry.

Then the question is are you going to do that without insurance?

Meaning that if God forbid something happens, you're just going to work through the consequences of that. Um or

or you hoping to have some Basically, this is lawyer insurance. It buys lawyers.

Correct. >> What it does. So, um or do you want somebody on your side? So, I don't [snorts] know what circumstances you're in and so forth. I carry every day, and I have for 35 years.

And I don't have the insurance.

Um and if it was Dave Ramsey, good god,

can you imagine the lawsuits? You know, and so my process is if something's going on, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to run instead of shoot. I'm leaving, okay?

Uh I don't I would never, you know, I I have extra mental barriers to me pulling

a firearm out beyond other people. And so um you've got to just ascertain your position in that because I'm truly I've done a bunch of training with handguns and with a bunch of people that really do know what they're doing, and um I

love it as a sport. I love it as a hobby. I love it as an American right.

All of those things.

Um but the chances of me shooting someone unless they were killing one of my family members or me would be zero.

Um and so I'm just not going to engage a situation. So that that lowers my need for insurance, you know, by by my attitude about all of that. And so you've got to decide, you know, what situations are you going to be in?

What risk are you actually taking? And

then in it making $40,000 a year, what's worth $300 a year?

And uh you got to make that call for yourself, but um I I will tell you and the CCW insurance people that know their stuff will tell you that by far the best insurance you can have is have your brain screwed in.

Uh if you're going to do this and really have done some training, and I'm serious, run away from situations. Don't Don't be,

you know, you're not freaking Wyatt Earp. And if you get that stuff dialed in, it changes the need for this

the level of need. Uh but, you know, the

people in the gun world say if you if a if a round leaves your weapon and hits someone else, whether they're guilty of something or not, it's probably a million dollars.

If it's me, it's 10 million.

Set your target. That that it'll cost me in legal fees to uh not because I'd be wrong, not because the law doesn't protect me, not because all the but it's just the stinking laws the law the lawyers and the court system are all just set up to screw people. And it's just it'd be a horrible situation. So, I got to tell you man, it's not there's very few things I'm going to invest 10 million dollars in that has a bullet coming off of it.

I mean, it's not just not going to do it.

I I mean, if I've got to really protect someone, maybe, but that's um ooh, scary. >> It's a Yeah, it's a scary scary thing to think about, but you know, the the peace of mind if 300 bucks buys you the peace of mind right now and you need that, fine. It's not going to make or break your debt payoff schedule. >> Agreed.

At 25 bucks a month. Now, if it was 100 bucks a month, making 40 K, that that is a serious amount of money. So, the goal would be can we get our income up and eventually sort of have our own insurance policy uh to help out with this and auto, home, umbrella, all of that. There's other ways you can also kind of stay protected, but outside of a firearm situation where someone sues you because of that, that's that's a different situation.

I don't know how often that happens. How many a year, but >> Yeah, I can't even imagine. It's It's almost nothing, but wow, it's a scary scary thing to think about, that's for sure.

This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

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>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

I'm Dave Ramsey. Amber is in Tulsa. Hi, Amber. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you for speaking with me today. Sure. What's up?

I have been married about 20 years and

15-ish years of that marriage, my husband was an alcoholic.

Um and he has his own business and he was able to maintain that. He is now 3 years sober. Good.

>> And Yes, thankfully.

Um and he is back on track, um but in

the midst of the chaos, we have not filed our taxes since 2020 and I'm not

even >> what chaos? He was drunk for 20 years.

When did the chaos happen?

Well, he just really was a downward spiral. It just got worse and worse. He even had a couple of DUIs.

Um so, it just kind of reached a peak.

>> So, 20 to 23 was him going to the

bottom, and 23 to now is coming back out. Yes, exactly. >> I got you. Um and now his business is thriving, and we're doing really good.

Okay. But, this is just like a looming black cloud over us because I know we have to pay the piper.

Yeah. Okay. So, the first thing to know is this, and it's very, very serious.

Failure to file income tax returns is a

federal criminal offense.

Yes.

Failure to pay taxes is not.

Okay. Yes. Okay. People do not go to jail People People do not go to jail in America for not paying taxes. They do go to jail, around 2,500 to 3,000 of them each year, for not filing.

So, we've got to get that off of you.

The number of times that the IRS prosecutes someone who comes out of the cold, off the grid, on their own

is almost zero. So, you're going to initiate this filing immediately.

Okay. I don't want them accidentally finding you in the next 30 days and really screwing up all of the positive progress you he's made in the last 3 years.

Yeah. Okay. So, go to ramseysolutions.com,

and get one of our tax ELPs, and they will help you. Typically, what happens is you need to reconstruct the last 3 years, maybe four,

and do the best you can to reconstruct those years and file those, and then all of those taxes will be due.

Okay.

I mean, that's another thing. I don't even know that during that time period he kept a very good record >> care. We have to reconstruct something.

>> Okay. Okay. The best you can do. You're going to have to pull it together cuz you need to file something.

Okay. >> Cuz they're probably not going to look at it. They're probably just going to be happy that somebody just showed up and started giving them money, okay?

Right. >> But But that's if you go to them. So, do not put this off another year.

Okay. >> Danger. Danger. Danger.

Yes, I don't want to go to jail.

Well, it's not you. It's him.

Yeah. Are you working outside the home during this time?

Um no. I'm a stay-at-home mom, but I do help him with the business. >> I know, but you There's no other tax There's no other tax bill other than the profits from the business.

No. No. >> And you're not an employee of the business?

I'm just a co-listed as a co-owner. Does he have employees?

Um he has two, but they're just 1099.

Um so, they do their own taxes and everything. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I think you're going to find when you delve into this that they're not really 1099.

Okay. >> Because you have to meet several guidelines to be 1099 employee and I've got a feeling these guys don't. 1099 with sometimes with entrepreneurs is I just don't want to file taxes.

Right. >> to make the I'm going to make the team do it. But a 1099 is for a self-employed person. Your employees are not self-employed.

Okay. So, I don't think I you know, but you're Again, you're tax That's a minor thing, but your tax advisor can tell you about or your tax preparer can help you figure that out. But you need to get two or three I mean, three or four years with a with an a Ramsey trusted tax preparer and get it filed immediately. And then if you owe some money, you can put that on a payment plan with them and or use some money you got in the bank and just pay them.

Yeah, and I'm ready to do that. I just want to be in good standing.

What's your financial situation now? How much debt do you guys have and what's the income?

Um we don't have a ton of debt. Maybe 100 grand and that is in houses and cars

and a little bit of credit card, but we're bringing in close to 20 to 30,000 a month. >> A month net profit or gross?

Um gross. There is some like equipment purchasing and paying employees in that amount. >> Yeah. Okay. So So you're probably making five grand a month. Yeah. Yeah. So $60,000 a year. So and

I'm guessing in the bad years you might not have made anything.

Yes. So it may not be as bad as you think when you actually go to file your taxes. So that means there are not going to be much taxes on it if you didn't make much. Okay. That's what I'm hoping. Yeah. So yeah, let's just get all this pulled together and be proactive in approaching the IRS. And I make fun of them and pick on them all the time, but they're actually pretty good to work with in these situations if you come to them.

Don't wait for them to come after you.

>> don't get the men in You don't want the men in black showing up with a gun, right? But that's you know, that kind of thing. But that's yeah.

Go come in out the come in out the cold as quick as you can. Todd is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hey Todd, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so me and my wife we we're looking to buy a new Harley. How much? It's 50,000. Mhm. You got 50,000?

Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, it's $50,000 Harley. And you've got 50,000 cash.

Yes, we do. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah.

We have uh We have like 450 in retirement and and

350 about 350 cash or a little more and

uh Um I just you know, I just want to retire and like I'm looking to retire in about five years. She's already were Mhm. And I just want to be you know, just want to be smart with my money and >> Yeah, have you got any debt?

No, none. What's your household income?

Uh about 3 to 350.

Um Yeah. I I would I would buy the Harley, but I also would tune up my investments.

And make sure we're putting a a good amount cuz you're making really good money and you could really stack some cash and buy a lot of things later that you want to buy.

But right now you can afford that Harley for sure.

Okay. What kind of vehicles and and toys do you have right now?

Uh really no. I mean well, I actually do. I have do have a Harley now that's worth about 15,000. I'd probably just sell outright. And then we have a paid off 23 Tahoe and a paid off

22 Silverado pickup. And then I have a vehicle that I use for my business. I just I I work a

full-time job for the federal government. I'm an electrical inspector on the side and you know, I also build houses and sell >> that your motorcycle's going to be your most expensive vehicle now?

Right. >> Your toy. Yeah. Your toy is worth more than your other cars that you drive every day.

>> Yeah, that's that's what that's that's one of my I mean that's what And it's going to be worth 15 grand when you go to sell it. So just know that going into it. You're going to lose the money, but you've got the money to burn it. Okay, you got the money to enjoy it. And it's not out of line. Um

I I I might have pause in doing it, but it's not out of line. It's not a it's not a you know, you're not too broke to do it.

But I want you to sit down with a smart investor pro and make sure all of your money is invested. If you're making 350, you should have more money stacked than what you've got stacked.

So I want you to increase your investment goals so that you have got millions later to do stuff with.

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>> Megan is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi Megan, how are you?

Good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Love it. I was hoping to get I was hoping to hear you say that. That's awesome. I've been listening to you guys for years. Um so, I'm just wondering how it is possible to go from surviving to thriving with a disabled husband.

What's the nature of a of his disability?

Um he uh since he was 19, he has chronic pancreatitis with all kinds of complications that have resulted as um as a result of that uh multiple surgeries and all kinds of things over the years. Um just making it where he's completely unable to work um you know, reliably. Um

it happened when he was uh 19, he went in for a surgery and came out with um came out with an acute bout of pancreatitis and it's just been downhill ever since then. Wow.

Okay. And what do you do?

Um I am a human resources manager. Mhm.

And what do you make?

Um right now, about take home about 3196

per month. Okay. All right. How many kids have you all got?

We have three. We have a 15-year-old, an 11-month-old, and a 2-year-old. Cool.

How much debt have you got not counting your house?

Um only about $1600. That's [laughter] good. Good.

Yeah. That's a good that's a good basis to start from. Well, obviously um

surviving to thriving is an income issue and an outgo issue. If you spend everything you make, it doesn't matter if you make a lot. And if you uh don't

make anything, that's going to be tough, right? So, is it easier to thrive on 36,000 or 336,000? Well,

obviously 336,000, right? So, how old

are you guys?

Um we'll both be 40 this year. Okay. All right. >> [clears throat] >> So, there's an old book, probably really old. I'm not even sure if you can find it anymore, but I'm more about the thesis of the book than the book. It's called What Color Is Your Parachute?

And the book had in it a ton of

stories of people who were overcomers

um and created incomes in spite of physical

and even mental disabilities.

And um the uh the thing that I took away from it was two things. One is a lot of these people, your husband in this case, um found a way to found a work around

to be an entrepreneur and own their own business. And that enabled them to um

take the downtime that they had to have because of the physical limitations.

>> [snorts] >> Okay? But the interesting thing about entrepreneurs is that um ADHD and dyslexia occurs about eight times

more often among entrepreneurs than it does the general public. Meaning this,

that uh people with ADHD or dyslexia or any kind

of limitation learn their whole life is about a work around. Mhm. And oddly enough, that's what business is all about.

Yeah. The definition of an entrepreneur is find a need and fill it. It's a work around. We got to find a new way to do an old thing or a new way to do a new thing and figure out a way to do that in spite of all these people and things and crap coming at us. Those of us that start and run businesses, right? >> [snorts] >> So, that's what he um because his

mental toughness to deal with the

medical limitations that he's had will actually work in his favor to start a business versus someone who's perf- perfectly healthy. Cuz he's already got calluses on his brain in this area. Does that make sense? Very much, yeah. So, to me that's encouraging. So, I'm going to start thinking about what he can do uh as a as a business and, you know, how can he delegate some of the things, hire employees, and get somebody to do that he's not able to do.

Uh where can we start? Out of the garage? Uh obviously, it's not going to be something that's physically taxing on him. Uh but, it does have to be something that can come and go. Cuz he needs to have some down days, some down hours.

Um yeah. He can't work a 9:00 to 5:00.

Right, right, yeah, not reliably. >> Right, right. And you don't want to set up a business that requires him to be present 9:00 to 5:00.

That's what I mean by a work around. So, anyway, I I I'm going to encourage him to find a way to create maybe the most money you guys have ever seen in your life if he happens to strike gold with this. And [snorts] Yeah. kind of come at that with that attitude. And really, the same thing for you. Uh you're a human resource manager?

Mhm. And you make $30,000 $40,000 a year?

Well, I do I do have um some retirement coming out of that, and I do have um like one small insurance coming out of that. So, there's a little bit coming out. Yeah, but you're not making much money for HR manager.

Not really, and honestly not for the area that I'm in, either. Um the reason that I'm still here is because the people are really wonderful, and um Honey, your family needs money. I don't give a crap how wonderful they are. We'll we'll find wonderful people elsewhere. Right now, we need to double the pay pay you twice as much.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> got a few levers to pull on here. If he can get something going, you can increase your income. Now, we've got some serious margin, cuz right now, your expenses are probably three grand a month. That's what you're taking home. So, it's going right back out to the bills. It really is, yeah.

Cuz it seems like we like start to build up a few hundred dollars in an emergency fund, and then it all goes away and then we have to kind of start back over from scratch like every month. So it was just we're just not getting anywhere. That's why I've been putting a little bit more into that retirement cuz I was just terrified like what if we get to 60 and have nothing to show for it, you know?

Well, right now you're doing five good things at once and you're not making progress. You're trying to pay off that 1,600 bucks in debt, you're trying to throw some at savings, you're trying to invest. I would just focus on one thing at a time. And for you guys, that's a thousand dollars starter emergency fund.

So my assignment for him is I want him to start a business that in the first year makes 50,000 profit and the second year makes 100,000 profit. My assignment to you is go find a job that doubles your income.

Okay. Yeah, I think we're going to have to do that cuz And I think those are doable.

They're doable. I believe in you.

Yep. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And you call us back as you're going on this fight now and we'll help you. Hang on, I'm going to send you a call a a book called Building a Business You Love. It's my latest number one best seller.

It's how to start and run a business and we'll help him with that.

>> [snorts] >> But So George, when I first found that statistic that dyslexia in particular is I forget the number. It's way more prevalent among entrepreneurs than business owners

than the general public like light years. Wow. Uh like 30 times or something. It's crazy. I can't remember the number but it's just mind-blowing.

And and then as we sat and talked about it and thought about it and I talked to a couple guys that got dyslexia that cuz we work with 10,000 small businesses in entre leadership and they're like, "Hey man, my whole life's a work around." Everything I do I have to figure out a way to do overcome do stuff do overcome an obstacle that is just normal for you other people and y'all are just lazy and so I go get it, you know?

>> [snorts] >> And he goes, "So it's it's natural to me." And he was making a lot of money.

He's running a big business.

But [snorts] he said reading is a is a challenge. He goes, "I'm really glad you put stuff on audiobook, you know, cuz but he goes it's a workaround. What's the you know, what how are we going to do this in any way?" And my whole

spirit has been reformed with a recognition that I have to do things differently than the average person and that is a secret superpower in business.

There's a grit to that. Oh, there's a grit to it and there's a there's a part of your brain that functions um to create workarounds that no one else has. You know, I don't have to do the workarounds he has to do.

I can just walk up to it and touch it, you know, but he has to go around the barn three times. And so, it's a but

it's there's a lot of data coming out on this that that's a lot of the reason for the successes, the number of people that are you know, on the functioning into the autism spectrum and so forth. And so, um

it's it's it's interesting to me that what is perceived as a disability is an ability. Mhm. There's opportunity there. There's opportunity there and so, to me that's really encouraging. I've never faced something like that personally. Um play face plenty of other

challenges and stupid butt stuff I've done to myself, but but I but it's when I meet people like that that are like they they bust through whatever it is and become a big deal. You know.

>> Our friend John O'Leary that was burned heavily as a child and the movie just came out Man on Fire and he's just um

he's created an entire career out of telling people they can do something. >> Using his story. Inspiring.

>> using his story.

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All right, not with us. Hey, David is in Los Angeles.

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. Sure, how can I help?

Uh wanted to ask a question. My wife and I have been given an opportunity to move to Alaska for a job that sounds like it's going to be a much better for our family in terms of time getting to spend time together.

But I'm a little nervous because it's technically a title lower than the one I'm currently worth. I'm wanting to make sure I'm not giving up too much opportunity, but also want to improve my family's life in the immediate situation. So trying to get a little guidance on that.

What what is your field? What's the Why does title matter?

Yeah, so I I'm a marriage and family therapist and I'm currently working as a clinical director at a treatment center down here.

Mhm. What's the new title?

So the new title would be a clinical manager rather than clinical director. It does come with a little bit of a pay raise.

Uh about $6,000 a year, so nothing too crazy. Um but just want to make sure that, you know, I I don't know if it's a horrible idea to be taking a lower title in the the long run. >> Well, isn't your Is your cost of living going to be much lower in Alaska versus LA?

So it is. Essentially, we would be able to to live for a bit cheaper out there

and we'd be making more money. So on Plus less taxes. >> like a no-brainer. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Well, it's cold it's cold though.

It's definitely cold. Winter will be a little different. And there's bears.

Yeah. But there are a whole bunch of bears.

>> [laughter] >> Uh so

I am not an expert on the clinical

field. I wish Dr. John Delony was sitting here with me. Sorry, George. And he has he has a PhD in counseling and he knows all those people and knows all that stuff. My perspective looking in from the outside as a layman is I don't think there's two people on the planet that will notice your title change.

I don't think it matters.

Um Okay. I've got I mean Henry Cloud is one of my best friends. He's a clinical guy, one of the most famous in the world, and others I've known in that world cuz we've been around that world for 30 years because we deal with so much mental issues around money stuff.

So we're become friends with that world, and I have never uh in in 35 years I've never had the occasion to go, "Oh, that guy is a manager, not a director." Um you know, and he runs the dadgum place or he doesn't run the dadgum place. That's the way I look at it. So that's an outsider outside the industry looking in. So I'm not sure how valuable my opinion is, but I personally have never been someone that collects titles. I collect the ability to get things done and get paid for it.

And so it sounds like that's what you're doing. You're being a little bit more utilitarian rather than esoteric, right?

That's true. Yeah. Are the responsibilities the same?

Yeah, I mean responsibilities are essentially exactly the same. I'm still running the place. I'm you know, I still have the same just about the same amount of employees. So I think >> Okay, let's let's fast forward. Let's try to change Let's put the markers on the for the fun of it. You've been doing this a while. You know the world. So if someday you were a regional uh director of eight different mental

health centers and someone came to you for an interview and they both had done the exact same job. Would you care what their title was?

I can't say that I would. I don't think that I would be able to say this is the same thing. Exactly. You would look at it and go, you know, just in Alaska they named it this and in LA they named it that and it's the same same job description, same duties, same responsibilities. Crud, the Alaska one may have a bigger budget that you're managing. I don't know. I mean, there could be actual more qualifiers. The only other thing I'd throw out is I would ask for more money.

Alaska generally pays a premium to get people to live there.

Yeah. And you're getting a little bit of a premium, but I and I wouldn't just say I wouldn't ask for a set amount. I would just say, "Hey, I was talking to my financial counselor and he said he's not sure this is a good idea. Is this the best you can do?" Mhm.

And just see what they say. The worst thing they can say is, "Yeah, that's the best we can do." And you go, "Okay, I'm coming." Right? Or they go, "Oh, no, you know, we could actually do 20,000 more." And you go, "Oh, that one silly little question just made me 15 grand, you know?" Or maybe it's a kind of signing on bonus or extra relocation. >> don't do it with um a belligerent personality.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Is there anything else you can do?" Yeah. And asking a gentle open-ended question, you might be blown away with how much they add to that 6,000.

And it's a general negotiating posture to take anyway folks on anything. Is that the best you can do? And it's like, "Oh, no, I can do a whole lot more." It's like, "I really want to get rid of this thing." >> And then you just shut up and let them speak. >> Let them talk. You don't want to overtalk. >> Being really quiet. You ask a question and shut up. First guy speaks loses.

So. Again, worst case is they say, "No, this is the best I can do." Sounds like a fun Alaskan adventure.

Let's go. >> I like I'm in. Let's do it. Why not?

Worst case is you don't like it and it's too cold and you go somewhere else later. Nobody said you had to stay there for 25 years. You're just going up there to take a job.

Jordan is in Nashville. Hi Jordan, how are you? Hello. Hi.

Hey Dave. My mom has been listening to you since I was in the third grade and I'm 41 if that makes you feel old. Oh, I was already old. I was already feeling old and you helped. Thank you, brother.

Fossilizing Dave here soon.

Yeah, now [snorts] she was she was on to Dave Ramsey before before a lot a lot of people caught on to it. Back when I had hair. Yeah, I got it. Okay.

What's up today, man? >> is um I am 41 years old and I have got my house and everything paid off. I don't have any debt. Mom's proud.

Yep. And uh I've got a nest egg that I've been saving for a while and basically what my question was um

I do have I am working towards a pension and I'm 15 years in towards retirement on a city pension. Mhm. And um

my question is would you use all the capital I have now to make an investment in a real estate and business that I've been kind of wanting to do or would you just focus on investing in smart stocks and stuff that

would further secure retirement?

Okay, if you're slotting everything all the chips in the center of the table on one deal, I would not do that. I don't do that. But I do buy real estate and I like real estate. What are you talking about doing? Well, I've been wanting to do like an event center.

I've been wanting to do an event center in my town and kind of have like

all in one where it's kind of a kitchen, bar, event center for weddings, birthdays, events and so forth. I've been kind of messing around with that for a couple years. In Nashville?

No, not in Nashville. I live about an hour and a half from Nashville. Okay, which city?

Clarksville. Okay. All right. Yep. Cuz in Nashville I would just tell you there's 26 of them. mean, you don't It's like, how do you get the next country music star's attention? A waiter. You know, and so um but in Cookeville, how what's the event centers like there? How many of them are there?

There is a few event centers. I was actually wanting to do it in my hometown of Sparta.

Now we're getting small.

Is there enough population there to support one?

You know, the local they don't have a whole lot going on, but the local places that they do, for example, since I've been doing events, every time I try to call and book one of these places, they're 6 months out, they're 4 or 5 months out. So, it seems like all the rental and venue places are doing well.

And then our local bars, there's only a few of them. It seems like they do real well, too, as far as the amount of people that's always in them. What's the cost going to be on this if you did it right? Well, I've been looking into it, so like right now I've got, you know, a a pretty good chunk saved up, but the properties I've been looking into, there's a couple different options.

There's some out there right now that you can buy a turnkey ready pretty much for around 350, 400, which is I think [music] really high um bar area. You know what I would do?

and start your business and run it with the option to purchase it and put a price on it and buy it later if this works. If it doesn't work, you're just a tenant and you run your lease out. A lease with an option to purchase that reduces your risk.

>> Instead of dropping 350 into it, drop 50 into it and let's go try your dream without it turning into a dead [music] gum nightmare.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Cole is in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Cole. How are you?

Hi, Dave. It's really good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so my wife and I are both Doctor of

Audiology students and um currently right now we don't have any debt. Um we've been following you for quite a few years now and so we've maintained no debt um through school, through our our undergrad, everything like that. And we are now having to make a decision um just because our scholarships have kind of run out, the money that I saved up when I worked and she worked to school is running out. And so my question to you is is would you take on a student loan if it makes sense or would you do all that you can to just not take on any student loans at all?

Um preface with that, we do have money saved up.

So we're studying. So my wife is a third-year student going into her fourth year. So she has 1 year left and I'm a first-year student. So I've got 3 years left. Okay.

All right. And how does that world work

as far as work goes?

As a third-year student, can she work in the field while she finishes up?

She is. Both of us are. Oh, good.

>> have part-time jobs in the field. Um so we're both working part-time. We're taking advantage of any school scholarships that we can. Um but I mean the school costs about So we made 50,000 last year, but that

was when I was working full-time.

This year, I think we're projected at like 30,000.

And what does it take for her to finish the next year, the her last year?

So, it's going to cost us 30,000.

Each?

Yes. Okay. And you've been able to get scholarships for none of it or what?

For all for all of it up until now.

And so, that's where >> Why Why did the scholarships go away?

So, she's going to called her externship, so her clinical rotations.

So, there's no scholarships there, and then I'm in the current application period for scholarships, but nothing's been granted yet. And when I look at the numbers, I'm like, if I don't get any scholarships, we're going to have to make a decision on dip into our savings, take out a student loan, or >> wait wait wait wait. Wait. How much savings do we have?

So, I have a So, my wife and I have a brokerage account with 50,000, and then we currently have savings for 20,000.

So, if if it's worth borrowing for, why is it not worth using your savings for?

No, I I agree with that. My wife thinks that we should keep our brokerage account the way that it is because it made us 20% last year.

>> borrow money on a student loan to put money in a brokerage account. That's dumb.

Well, I that's why I called to make sure that I wasn't, you know, >> misunderstanding. You're not misunderstanding. You should pay cash for and finish your degree.

By the way, this is a license to print money. You know that.

Say that again? >> Audiology. You're You're going to do really well.

Oh, yeah. Well, and that's where what her take is is that leave everything there, take out the student loan, and then when she gets out is in and making 90 to 100,000, we'll just pay it off.

>> Yeah. I have just done everything new except that and said no debt.

>> to pay cash or we're not doing it. We're going to pay cash or we're not doing it. You have the money.

No, we do not borrow money on student We do not borrow money on student loans to invest.

Right. Well, so then one other question with that. So, because I have 3 years left when we get to the point that we would be forced to take out a student loan >> You're not. She's going to be making 90.

Well, right. And so, I She has 1 year left and then starts cashing checks.

Right. She could pay for you to finish.

Right.

Okay. Well, I just like I said, I wanted to make sure I I understood that correctly and So, you got you got 70k.

It's going to cost you 60 for both you to do another year, right? So, you got 10k left. Then she's working. So, now we can cash flow the next 30k for you.

Right. So, that would be the game plan.

>> that you would do. Yes, absolutely. A hundred times over. >> Zero times I'm going to tell you to take out a student loan ever.

But, particularly in when you've got a way at your fingertips to not do it and you're just doing it as a to keep your investments intact which has the same effect of having borrowed money on student loan to invest it. No, that's >> And just because it did 20% last year does not mean that's going to happen again this year. It could go down this year. And then she's going to be real heartbroken. >> Yeah, we could bomb Iran and the stock market could drop.

That's a wild thought. >> Who knew that would happen, you know?

All we knew was what was going to happen is all we knew. So, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And to assume that you George is right. I mean, the last 2 years 25 and 26 were 23 to 26%. Both of them were

incredible years. But, that's not normal, folks. And you don't you don't make your decisions based on a 20% rate of return cuz it doesn't We don't tell people you're going to get 20% average.

We just know what actually happened in the last 2 years. So, each each each.

No, we're not borrowing student loans.

Matthews in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Matthew.

Hey, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I I maxed my 401k out with like 3 4 months left in the year, putting the 15% in like you guys uh like tell us that's a good idea to. And my company has an after-tax account that I can continue to put a percentage of my check in after taxes that rolls into my 401k Roth. Do you have a Do you have a mortgage?

I do have a mortgage. Put it on that.

Don't put it in that.

Pay your mortgage off.

>> That was that was the only question I had. Okay, it's easy. Yeah, we tell people that when you're in baby steps four, five, and six, four is 15% of your income going into retirement, five is kids college, any other money we can find above living life well, we're going to throw out and pay off the mortgage next. Because what we found, Matthew, the data tells us that the typical millionaire in America, and we've done the largest study on them of anybody, has a paid-for home and a healthy muscle-bound 401k account. You're going

to have both if you go this route. Now, when the house is paid off, you can go back and play some of these other games.

You can max out, you can you know, you get to the to this year be 24,500 if you're over 50, you can do or over 60, you can do 11,500 250 extra.

Do all those kinds of games. I do every bit of that. I do everything I can do.

I'm 66 and I'm But I don't have any debt and hadn't had in 20 30 years. So, I I'm

just I just I'm always maxing that stuff. I don't have any mortgages. It's a baby step seven item to stay away from. >> Going above and beyond all of that. But yeah, you got the backdoor Roth IRA for incomes too high for the normal, and then you get the mega backdoor Roth 401k, which is what he's talking about.

Yeah. >> Where you can do the after-tax contribution and an in-plan conversion, and we have that at Ramsey. Very few people do it around here. >> Because they're not baby step seven. But at that point, it's a good option to have. But again, to your point, I'd rather have the house paid off first before I'm adding extra to retirement. Cuz likely he's going to be a multi-multi-multi-millionaire in that retirement account. >> Exactly. So in the meantime till we get there and can access it, let's have a paid-off home.

Okay. And because that that is an element of the typical data point of the typical person in their first one to five million dollars in net worth. Now beyond that, people do other things. They don't borrow to do it, but beyond that, they're doing more than just 401k and a paid-for house.

Other rental properties, they've got businesses, they got other things to run on their worth up above that. But

So a backdoor Roth, explain that, George. So a backdoor Roth, if your income is too high to contribute to an IRA, traditional or Roth, you can do a backdoor Roth IRA, which is when you use after-tax dollars contributed to a traditional IRA, and then you pretty much immediately roll it over and convert it to a Roth IRA. Just did mine the other day. Oh, nice.

Do it every year. Before before tax season rolls around. Yeah, it's great. And you can do a spousal as well.

And so you can now this year $7,500. Yep. And for you guys, even more. We're old.

85. 86. Woohoo!

now. It's a good day for Dave. >> I just moved another 17,000. That's and you know, and and and all the growth on that for the rest of my life will not be taxed, and it will not be subject to inherited IRA rules.

Not taxed to my heirs. So when the grandkids get this money, they're not going, "Oh, I got to pay taxes on it." Nope. Papa Dave did it for you guys.

>> done done a Roth. So there we go.

>> You can thank him now.

And so everything in my name at 66 or 65 is in a Roth. And so that's the route we're going because it keeps no minimum distributions, no required minimum distributions at 72 and a half, 74 and a half, whatever. >> Which statistically you and Sharon are going to live into your 90s if you made it this far. Well, my my plan is well beyond that. But we'll see. I think sheer willpower and spite Dave will outlive us all. That's my greatest fear.

>> I'll be on here spreading hate and dissension long after the rest of you are gone. 104 years old, Dave's still on the air. Get out that. Sell the truck.

>> said he's the Methuselah of personal finance. >> Sell the truck.

>> [music]

>> Welcome to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, [music] number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Melissa's in New Orleans.

Hi Melissa, how are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um well, my question is I'm considering

separating um my income from my husband.

We've been married for 13 over 13 years.

Why?

Um well, okay. For the

most of our marriage, I've been uh I

started off mostly at home and he went to work.

We had babies [clears throat] and I would like, you know, manage the household, manage the finances.

He knew he wasn't very good with money and he let me do it. My dad taught me a little bit and my dad even gave me like the um

the baby steps book in like our first year of marriage. So [clears throat]

So now >> manage >> all. For now, you want to separate your money. Why?

Well, uh when I went back to work full-time, I'm a school teacher, and um about 5 years ago, once our youngest got into kindergarten, well, it was actually first grade, but um

it just got too hard for me to manage, you know, the finances, the household, the children, full-time work, especially teaching, and I started asking him, like, "Hey, I like I need help." And I I felt like the biggest stress was always managing the money, and that was because we didn't agree on that area.

Like, I'm always trying to save, and I was always trying to get trying to get us out of debt and everything, and he really didn't agree with um the Dave

Ramsey method. >> So Melissa, is he misbehaving with money? You haven't answered the question. Oh, um >> What problem does it solve for you to separate your money?

Well, I feel like it would eliminate us fighting if he just spent his money, and I didn't have to >> cause him to be broke, and you to be broke, too. He'll drag you down with him. Right now, you're the only thing holding this together.

But it's just really hard on the marriage. Like, if that's like our >> No, the money isn't hard on the marriage. The selfishness is hard on the marriage.

But he's you know, he's worked really hard. >> We all work hard. Call the whambulance.

Where? He worked really hard, so that gives him permission to constantly be at odds with his wife, instead of coming into agreement and deciding on what our future goals are together. Bull crap.

That's selfishness. >> with him, and I just >> That's selfishness. You don't agree to stupidity. And so, separating the finances is not going to give you a better marriage. It'll just brush the problem under the rug. Makes it worse. It'll separate you guys further.

Okay. Yes, sir. Yeah, cuz he's going to burn all of his in the corner.

And then you're going to be trying to run the whole family on yours.

And then are you going to split expenses and split the mortgage and split the utilities like roommates?

>> I considered like doing like, you know, I make significantly less than him.

I like Okay, let's try let's try this.

You do not have a money problem.

You have a marriage problem. So, let's not fix a marriage problem with a money solution. Let's fix a marriage problem with a marriage solution. You guys need to go see a marriage counselor. You need to sit down with your pastor and it's time for you all to put this marriage together the first time completely that you ever have. Before you were the mommy taking

care of the little boy. Now the little boy's rising up and saying, "I want a vote and I don't agree with everything you're doing." And the two of you can't find a language to reconcile in your relationship on your disagreements.

That's not a money problem. That's a marriage problem. Yes, sir. So, you guys

get on the phone and get your marriage counselor booked.

And it's not Well, Sharon I went to marriage counseling Melissa when we were ten been married ten years. We've been married 43 now.

Um we went we went broke when we were seven at seven years.

And so three years later all the pissed off came to the surface from going broke cuz we we about killed each other. And uh but what we got at marriage counseling was not like we're broken you need to fix us.

I looked at it as like I hired a tutor.

I hired a personal trainer to give me skills and knowledge about marriage that I didn't have from the home I grew up in.

So, I need you to teach me something to be married as a better husband. I need you to teach her something so she'll be married as a better wife and teach us

language and processes to go get through

arguments like this and come to a conclusion.

And so, I just looked at it as I hired a personal trainer, I hired a I hired a tutor. Um you know, and I'm trying to get knowledge tools in my belt cuz I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to fix it by myself. And y'all don't know how to fix it by yourself.

But it's not separating the money and you go off to your corner and he goes off to his corner. That's going to make it worse. So, uh I would say the two of you not because you're broken not because you're all screwed up. Um but you have some things you need to learn that you've never learned in 13 years about how to talk to each other, how to

some Bible says submit yourselves one to another. How to put the other person first. That's what I was talking about selfishness. And you know, I've been doing this 43 years and it's still hard.

Because I'm still right and she's still wrong. >> [laughter] >> But I told her if she leaves I'm going with her. So, there you go. Uh but that's it.

I mean, you know, it it's it's hard. You you know, and um to navigate [clears throat] through this. You guys you you and Whitney had a bit of an advantage in that you started out as financial peace test tube babies here. >> She worked here at Ramsey and I thought if she's good enough to work at for Dave Ramsey, she's good enough for me.

Probably too good for me. Well, that's true. But yeah. It was easy.

But I have found Dave people that get married, they're not unified on money, but they go, "Well, he's just bad with money. It's just a personality trait." >> And then when you hear and then when I start picking on him, she says, "Oh, he works hard. Oh, give me a break." I think he works too hard to be this broken, selfish, and childish. Well, there we go.

>> So, there's one. Boom, drop that mic on it. Yeah. So, folks, here's the thing.

helping people build wealth, get out of debt so that they can build wealth, build wealth so that they can change their family tree and be outrageously generous. You know, there's a couple things we're sure of.

Very few, if almost none, of the married couples that build wealth

do it separately.

When we did the largest study of millionaires, we said, "How many of you work together with your spouse, and how many of you work separate?" 83% said we work together. The general public says less than 50% says we work together. But the general public's normal, and normal sucks. It's broke. You don't want to be normal.

And so, you know, if you want an advantage to building wealth, it's learn to work together with your spouse. Be unified in a desired future, as our friend Henry Cloud says. And then you say, "Okay, how does this discussion we're having affect that future?"

You know, you're wanting to buy something, we can't afford it, it affects that future. You want to be irresponsible with money, it affects that future. We've agreed that this is the future we want. We've got an agreed-upon desired future.

>> Yeah. And and anything that affects that negatively, hey, we need to look at it. There it's a wealth multiplier to be on the same page financially sharing the account. That's just the facts of it. >> Melissa, all the years of doing this show, your call is the number one call we get. How do I get my reluctant spouse on board with your Ramsey stuff? How do we

get agreement in our house? It's the number one call we get.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Today's question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. If defaulted private

student loans are wrecking your budget, it's [snorts] time to deal with them. Yrefi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate payment based on your ability to pay so you can stick to a budget and work the plan. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y r e f y.com/ramsey.

Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Nikki in Idaho.

What is a dividend stock? My co-worker has two houses that are completely paid off by using dividend stocks to increase her income by several thousand dollars per month and then reinvesting that income. Bull. This sounds too good to be true. Is it possible to do this? That's a lie.

>> [snorts] >> I she trying to sell you a course on this? Yeah. I mean, you've got to Let's Let's put it this way. Dividend stock versus a growth stock is just a company using their profit sharing to pay you a little bit instead of reinvesting that.

>> So, if I own stock at Home Depot and Home Depot makes a profit, they have two options. One is reinvest

it back into the company and grow Home Depot, and then the value of my stock might grow. Or they can pay the profits out in the form of dividends.

A dividend stock is a company that is mature. It's not in a growth phase. It's in a mature phase, and they pay out all their profits. So, it's an old, big, dinosaur company like an Alcoa aluminum.

Johnson & Johnson. >> Johnson & Johnson, Procter & Gamble, okay? This type of thing.

>> [snorts] >> So, um dividend stocks

do not have as good a rate of return

as regular stock that's growing. Cuz you're basically pulling it out. It's not going to grow. profit out. You're cashing in your chips at the end of the game.

You're saying I'd rather get the money now and not continue to let it grow. And so, you didn't you know, so for instance, if the stock market went up 20% in 1 year, that is like last year

went up 25% in 2025, okay?

But >> [clears throat and cough] >> there was not a dividend payout associated with that at all.

Dividends had nothing to do with that.

Dividends were companies made a profit in 2025 and they paid it out or they didn't to their constituents to their stockholders. So, point being, your

coworker did not pay cash with the dividends off of a stock. So, let let me just give you an idea. If you had $100,000 invested and your dividend stock paid out 10%, that'd be $10,000,

and that would be a huge Usually IT'S LIKE 3%. >> MASSIVE PAYOUT.

SO, for them to get enough to buy two paid-for houses, they'd have to have millions of dollars in dividend stocks.

Which in that regard, it didn't happen from dividend stocks. It happened from investing over a long period of time.

>> Yeah. So, a dividend stock is a dumbed-down

way to invest, a low-risk way to invest.

>> trick. It's just math. But it's not even good math. I mean, I'd rather have that money continue to grow. I know. I'm a

worth several hundred million. I'm 65.

The number of stocks I have that are dividend stocks are precisely zero. I want a better rate of return than that. >> I mean, we've heard you say on air for 30 years now, good growth stock mutual funds. >> Yeah. Not dividend stock. No, and the reason is the returns. It's pretty simple. And those dividend income, that's taxable. >> me let me reread it. What is a dividend stock? We just explained that. Coworker has two houses that are completely paid off by using dividend stocks to increase

her income by several thousand dollars per month. Okay, that did not happen.

And then she said, "And then reinvesting that income." Yeah, well, that's the income off of the uh houses.

Okay. You got the pow two houses paid off by using dividend stocks. So, my point is, if you did that, you either cashed in the stock or you have millions and millions of dollars to buy a hundred-thousand-dollar house or two-hundred-thousand-dollar house.

So, that's not Something's wrong. That doesn't pass the smell test, Nikki. >> You're not going to follow her strategy and do this. >> Yeah. So, >> At least in this lifetime. >> question. It's good to educate people on what a dividend stock is. That's why we took the question. And there's [snorts] nothing wrong with dividend stocks, but it's just an ultra-conservative, lower rate of return way of messing with the stock market. >> It just makes you feel good to get that little check in the mail every quarter.

Yeah. And it typically is done by folks that are retired, and they would place a chunk of money so that they could get a steady income off of these steady income companies. But again, it's a reduced rate of return. And it takes a big bank roll to make some serious money. >> In order to pay off two houses, you know, there's something we got a chicken egg problem with this thing with this story. So, this is somebody that read something on Tik Tok and then a lie to you. All right, Julie is in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hi Julie, how are you?

I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I have an interesting question. I

am interested in buying a new camper. We currently own one worth about maybe 11 or 11 or 12,000 dollars.

But, my husband works on the road out of state for a wind and solar farm company.

And I'm a stay-at-home mom with our first son. He's 1 years old. You live in

the camper? >> That takes Yeah, he [clears throat] lives in a camper. Oh, he lives in the ca >> I live in our home that we own in Nebraska. And how how long is he gone every day every week?

All the time. I would say 90% of the year. What does he make?

He makes about Last year it was

I think 80,000, but we had just had my

our son last year and he took off a great deal of time. So, what is your long-term plan? What's your long-term plan with his career cuz that doesn't sound sustainable.

Right. His father and family work for

the company also and they have made a living off of that. His mother owns or

his mother's side of the family owns a

business here in town.

And that that's another [clears throat] option that he could work there. What is his plan to do 10 years from today?

Um just I guess his it's to make money

for our family to be aspire to be millionaires. So, whatever I mean, he's gone 90% of the time and you have a brand new baby.

And he makes and he makes $80,000 a year and he lives in a camper.

So, how does a new camper fix this?

>> Sorry, say that again? How does the new camper fix this? Are you just going to live on the road with him? We live together. Yes. Oh.

>> And you can't do that in the current camper? No, it's $11,000. She's a one-year-old.

>> know. No, it's a it's a small camper that has like a bunk bed in the back that is much small for any clothes or anything for his his needs.

Okay. Okay, [snorts] so if you buy a $30,000 camper now, he has a $50,000 job.

Correct. Yeah, that would be true. I do make a small income.

Um it's about $2,200 to $300 a month from the VA. I was in

for about 6 years and was my medically retired.

Thank you. Thank you for your share. >> make Okay. >> that. We also make an income from our previous home that we own.

Um it's the mortgage is about minimum

500. We pay 800. And we rent it out for

1350 a month.

Where is that home?

>> [snorts] >> Also here in town with us.

Okay.

Ooh, if I would simplify your life truthfully, I don't know if it's worth keeping this rental with the mortgage on it and you have an mortgage on your primary home that you're living in.

Correct. >> What's left on the mortgage?

Oh, it's We just bought it December

of the year prior, so >> you going to keep this while you live on the road?

That would be the question also. Yeah, I

I don't know if if this is a long-term

um job, if we're going to stay for another couple more years so that we can pay it off. We're 26.

>> Okay. I'll give you a prediction.

5 years from the day, you're not not to be doing this.

Okay.

Because [snorts] what what you're doing it it the gypsy life is very strenuous.

And little babies on the road are you know, it just doesn't work for most people. Some people do it, but very very few. There's a reason people have a home and settle in for the mental health of the relationship and the quality of life for the kids and all that. For a short period of time it's an adventure.

But after that it becomes drudgery.

So I think this camper question really comes down to a career question of what's he going to do in the next stage of his life and when's that stage going to begin? Ready, set, go.

If it's going to begin sooner rather than later, then no, we don't need to move up in camper. If you move up in camper, you have to pay cash and it's going to become worth nothing by the time you finish this this adventure.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> While we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show, some of them we're glad we don't get to.

So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained on the proven Ramsey principles. To say the least, we have a bazillion hours of this show that we downloaded into AI and so it knows how to answer the question exactly the way we would have answered it. You get the same answer we'd give you right here on the show. So, ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com for free or just click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or YouTube. It's here, it's big, and it's popular. Ask Ramsey. Charles is

in Fort Myers, Florida. Hey Charles, how are you? Hey Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Wonderful. Let me tell you about my situation here. So, I am 34 years old. I

just sold my first home to move back in with my parents. I have about 70 grand

sitting in an S&P mutual fund and my 401k is in a good step and the

only debt I have is a car note. What's my next step?

Why'd you move back in?

Um I was originally from Pennsylvania.

They moved down to Florida and just to get back in with my family. I took a layoff, didn't make the money I was making, so it seems like no better time.

So, you don't have a job?

No, I I currently have a job and I start a new job next uh in like 2 weeks. Oh,

good. Okay.

All right. And so, um you're debt-free, you have money in an S&P, right?

I have money in an S&P. The only debt I have is a car note. Okay. How much do you owe on the car?

18 five. Okay.

Well, what we teach is to be debt free and have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then start talking about buying a house.

Okay. So, I guess how long should I hang out in till I I just get real real aggressive on the car note?

I mean, you don't need to be aggressive. I would sell enough from the S&P 500 brokerage account, pay off the car today, cash out more to cover your emergency fund and then whatever's left becomes your down payment. On your house and yeah, probably what are you going to make at the new gig?

They're quoting me starting anywhere from 70 to like 95 at the commission based sales. I mean, if you live there for four or five months and you just try to figure out the neighborhoods and you you know, then you're just do all that kind of thing. That's not the end of the world. They probably like having you around. But I I just don't think it's probably a a good thing for your personal life and your personal future to be living in mommy's basement at 34 for very long.

I agree. That's why I wanted to see

what you would advise. Yeah, I'd put a time on it. I'd say you know, 120 days, 90 days. You put a date on it and say, "I'm out by that date.

I'm paying off the car today. I'm going to move like George said enough over to a money market account that is three to six months of expenses or what it takes to operate if you had rent and have that as your emergency fund and you've got the balance for a down payment and just add to that down payment during that 120 days with this great income and no payments in the world. >> And don't increase your lifestyle cuz you get comfortable [clears throat] cuz you don't have housing expenses. That's what most people do when they move back in with mom and dad is they go, "Well, I'll save a lot of money by doing that." And then I ask, "Well, how much have you saved this year?" They go, uh $2,000.

I go, "Well, yeah, that plan sucked." So, actually put this amazing income to work by setting it aside for that down payment. >> Yeah, I'd stack another 10 or 20 grand in there right quick during this 120 days on top of what you've got after the car's paid off and after the emergency fund. And then look for a you know, get you a nice little condo of some kind and get started back out in the real estate world and get get your place self a place and it could be near mom and dad. You still see them a lot and all that be great.

And that's how we answer questions here.

If I were in your shoes, what would we do? But Ryan is in Virginia Beach. Hey Ryan.

>> [snorts] >> Hey guys, how you doing? Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Hey, so my wife and I are moving down to Florida in August and I just finished baby step one. I got a side job made an extra and started listening to your show about a few months ago. Got a side job made about 1,000 bucks just doing my side gig. Made

some money. Now I'm Now I'm wondering if I should start um tackling my debt or if I should save up a little bit money for our move.

Why are you guys moving?

Um job opportunity for her and for me there's actually a lot of opportunity for myself down there as well.

And what's the move going to cost? >> probably a little bit.

Uh haven't calculated the cost of the move yet, but we are going to be paying less in rent and both of us are going to be making more money. Okay. Well, right now you don't have the money for the move, so we definitely need to save up for that.

Sure. Yeah. Before we start tackling more than minimum payments on the debt. >> you pay off debt and you don't have money for the move and it goes in debt, that was a you just swapped one swapped ends, right?

Sure. Yeah. So when is the move?

Uh August. Okay. And do you know a ballpark what it's going to cost?

That's probably going to cost 3 to 6 grand. Okay. So now we have a goal. >> [snorts] >> 6 grand by August. >> Correct. And how much debt do you have?

Uh 18,000. Okay. On what?

Uh credit cards. Okay. >> Truck is paid off.

And what do you do for a living?

I'm a golf professional. Okay. And so Not in terms of playing, more of coaching. Got you. And uh you have PGA use and little bit of that going on in Florida.

Little bit more than Virginia Beach, yeah. Probably probably land a gig in 30 minutes down there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Assuming you're any good. And uh okay.

And what does she do?

Uh she works in the uh hospital field.

Okay. >> She's an office office director. And what do you average as a PGA golf professional?

Um I make my salary is about 35 a year,

but I make probably 34 in terms of um

lessons compensation. [snorts] Okay. So 75 80 and you'll probably do better than that in Florida, yeah. Okay, good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good good good.

>> plan, save a thousand bucks a month until the move. And then once you guys are settled in, let's start attacking this debt and knock it out fast cuz that credit card debt that the APR on that alone makes you want to throw up. So um Sure. Yeah. >> your calendar for lesson availability to change today to you're available anytime. I want you working all the time.

Got it. >> All the time. I don't want to pull your calendar up and go, "Oh, he doesn't work Thursdays." No, you work all the time.

You need money. [clears throat] Yep. And go pile you up some money and get enough to cover the move. Figure out to calculate what the move's going to be. Anything above that cost go ahead and throw it at this debt. And just keep working your way. It'd be really cool if you just went crazy and got debt free and had the money for the move. >> Ooh, I like that. >> by August. Wouldn't that be weird? But that's both of you working all the time.

And that's what I want to do. So that sounds cool. Sounds like an adventure.

Do it, Ryan. Way to go, man.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> Eric in Indianapolis. Hey Eric, what's up in your world?

>> [snorts] >> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

Um, I had just completed baby step three

and was moving on to four, five, and six. And I started hearing different personalities talk about sinking funds like for cars or maybe home repairs.

And I'm curious if I should be basically growing a larger emergency fund for you know, on top of the emergency fund, start the sinking funds as opposed to or before or during four, five, and six.

Uh during four, five, and six, you need some sinking funds that are not an

emergency fund. And so, home repairs are typically a minor sinking fund because you're you're setting aside you're saying, "Okay, if we have a $3,000 event this year with a hot water heater or a heating and air item or something like that, you know, if we set aside 250 a month, we've got a little money for that." That's a planning a future reasonable thing. You're going to have things like that happen. The dishwasher goes, yeah. Washer and dryer blows up.

Whatever it is, right? And Okay. that

kind of thing. Car replacement, I don't start that until I see the car into the future. So, in other words, I look and say, "Okay, two years from now we're going to buy a car." Okay, what's the car going to cost? $24,000.

All right, it's 24 months, it's $1,000 a month. Okay, I'm going to do that that way. But if today I don't really see buying a car in the next two years or so, I'm probably not going to do that. But I'm going to do my sinking funds in time to be able to pay cash for whatever I'm going to do.

So, non-negotiable, invest 15%. Money beyond that, if you want to set up a few sinking funds for things you know are coming up, absolutely do that. But you don't need 17 of them eating up all of your take-home pay.

>> [music]

[music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Proverbs 31:8 and 9 is our scripture of

the day. Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly. Defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Benjamin Franklin said it takes many good deeds to build a good reputation and only bad one bad one to lose it.

David is in San Antonio. Hi David, how are you?

I'm good. I my wife and I are having a discussion. I want to retire in May of this year at 58. She wants me going work for four more years.

For one a tenth of a percent on my multiplier for my retirement.

I'm sorry. This is a pension?

Uh well, it's a federal pension and I'll get I've maxed out. I'm I'm basically as high as I can go. Okay, so what is the pension if you retire now and what is it if you work for 4 more years in money?

Yeah, $9,100 before any cola right now if I retire in May, it'll go up to like $9,780

a month if I wait 4 years.

Okay, so you get $800 more a month if you work for 4 more years.

Yes. For life?

For life.

Okay. And you would be 62. >> 62. >> [clears throat] >> By the way, statistically if you live to be 62 and you're a male, you make it into your 90s.

So, average death age of 76 no longer applies to these kinds of discussions.

So, we got a we have a 30-year plus time time horizon on average.

And then that's not even taking into account my TSP or my brokerage account

our brokerage account. Yeah, but that's not the point. The the only question is

is uh you're giving up $700 a month $8,000 a year for 30 years.

Or so. That is a lot of money.

>> Okay. That that's her That's That's what she Is she doing this because she doesn't think you're going to be able to live on it or she thinks it's mathematically smart?

She thinks we won't be able to live on it. You can't live on $9,000 a month?

What do y'all make now?

Uh we make 150, but everything we have is paid for. We can live on it and then we have plenty of money [snorts] to pull out if we need to. >> And you got the TSP. How much is in it?

Almost 3.2 million. >> Oh good god.

Okay. >> there's our brokerage account. Okay.

So, what [snorts] does the extra eight grand a year do for her that she's going, "Hey, this is worth you working another four years?" I think it's she wants me to work because she has to teach for four more years to retire. So, that's the real reason. It has got nothing to do with the money. So, she said, "If I have to work, you have to work.

You don't get to lay on the couch while I I'm out here." >> working before I see I keep telling her jokingly that I started working before you did. Yeah. All right. So, um you have 3.2 million in the TSP.

have $9,100 coming in in addition to that.

You currently make 150. What does she make?

She makes about 72. Okay. And how much in um other accounts other than the TSP?

And then in our Victory Funds account, I've managed to save almost $2.8 million in in in our investment accounts. Okay.

>> [snorts] >> If neither one of you enjoy what you're doing and you both desire retirement,

you should both quit.

That's what I keep telling her because she keeps saying she wants to go on all these trips to Bali and to Yeah. And I think you should go I think you should load up the truck and head to Beverly.

You ought to do it.

I Well, I saved a lot because I grew up really poor. I know.

But, you have $6

If you make an average of 10% if that's invested in decent mutual funds, that's $600,000 a year. Plus, you have a 100,000 plus coming from the government and I bet you she's got a pension, too.

Yeah. >> And so, you got a seven or an $800,000 income without touching the $6 million.

That's what I keep trying to tell her.

Yeah. And so, I think you ought to go to Bali in May.

That's what I'm thinking. >> [snorts] >> For a month? >> Ramsey. >> For a month? >> We Well, thank you. >> think you guys will be able to spend this money fast enough to even run out.

If you sit down you need to sit down with your financial advisor and unpack all this and show that if this is all invested what the income it's going to be throwing off without even touching the nest egg just living off of the income only where you would be.

And it's going to blow >> make an appointment with our wealth advisor. And both of you sit down and let let him or her say here's the math.

Not emotion, not I grew up poor so I think one way, but here's what the math says. The math says you can spend

$500,000 a year and your investments will continue to grow.

I think that's another concern is she wants to leave something for our children. I think you probably are going to.

Unless you'll start doing cocaine or something, I think you're going to have plenty.

Okay. >> Are they grown and successful on on their own without you guys? Oh, yes.

They're we've gotten them out of college. They all have careers on their own. Our daughter is a nurse anesthetist and our They're fine.

She's making 400.

Oh my gosh. You guys are killing it. Why I'm so proud of y'all. She makes 210 but she's doing good. Yeah, way to go, David. This is awesome.

>> of you need to loosen up and go enjoy some of this money. Yeah, it's time. You lived like no one else. Now it's time to live and give like no one else. You There's no reason for you all to work unless you are enjoying it and it's what

you want to do with your life. That's why I work.

But I haven't worked in years because I needed money.

Years, decades.

So I work cuz I like doing this. And then sometimes I like being gone and I'm gone. And so >> You're good at that, too. I'm good at that, too. I've got I've got them both down. Got it dialed [snorts] in, baby.

>> I love it. That's That's a good lesson.

Man, way to go, David. Tyler's in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Tyler. What's up?

>> [snorts] >> Hey Dave. Um, I'm calling because I'm just trying to make the right decision here. Um, I got uh three properties.

Um, one's my primary residence. That's about 350.

Um, I got another one that's a rental producing about 500 bucks a month in cash flow.

Um, and then I have another one that's an Airbnb. Um, I'm trying to

That one's breaking even.

And I'm trying to decide um trying to work towards baby step number two and I've do we're doing that with my wife's student loans and I'm just trying to figure out if I should sell these houses um make somewhere in the realm of like a hundred plus grand. The two houses that you don't live in? >> everything. Yes. And how much do you have in in debt that's not mortgage debt?

I have about 70 grand in my wife's

student loans um and 20 grand on a truck.

Okay. So you would sell two rentals, an Airbnb that's breaking even, another one's making 500 and be 100% debt free

and have your household [clears throat] income and be working your system to build cash, build it to pay cash for your next rental properties somewhere out in the future. Would that be a plan?

That might be a good plan.

>> [laughter] >> Just it seems a scary venture to sell an asset or something that >> Well, let me just say >> owning an Airbnb that breaks even is hard as a big a pain in the butt as those things are to manage. Breaking even on that does not sound appealing.

Not even remotely. >> And that's a lot of headache and stress on top of a hundred grand in debt. So I would definitely sell these, clear the debt, get an emergency fund and then just move slower next time. Yeah, and just pay cash as you go and [clears throat] let's get your house paid off and you said I'm going to guess and say you're in your 20s.

I'm 31. Um, done a lot or been in the

military for the past 10 years. Finally got out, moved on to a bigger, better career and

it was a great investment at the time.

Got it under COVID time and right before COVID and they've only appreciated. So So you can make some money on it and clear up everything and now you have no payment in the world and you stack cash

and start talking about how we can get the mortgage paid off and pay cash for some rentals in the future. That's what I did, Tyler, and I pay cash for everything and it has been a wonderful life building a portfolio of paid for real estate. And I can't recommend it enough. And it sounds like you're good at it and you like it except [snorts] for that Airbnb part.

>> Now you don't have to clean up after the next bachelor party. That sounds nice, too. >> Oh, that just grosses me out. Sorry, Dave.

Ugh. That I'm just saying, that's who's booking these Airbnbs. I don't even want to know about it.

Wow, that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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## 283. Your Overspending Will Eventually Catch Up With You | Best-Of for March 26, 2025


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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Jade Warshaw.

I'm joined today by best-selling author Rachel Cruze. Thank you for being here with me today, Rachel. So great, Jade. Good show.

It sure is. All hour we're going to be taking calls about your life and your money. So, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225.

We'll take your call and we will give you our best shot at advice. I think we do a pretty good job, but I guess at the end of the day it's up to you. So, let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Jason from San Jose, California. What's going on, Jason?

All right. Um thanks for taking my call.

The problem that we're having is my wife and I can't decide if we're in baby steps uh three, four,

five, or six. And we seem to be moving in and out of those those baby steps.

Okay. Tell me more.

Well, we make about uh $320,000

is our household income.

We've got two mortgages, one on our primary home with about $220,000 left to pay on it. And then we have a rental property that we break even on every month, and we've got about $300,000 left on that. We both save for our retirement.

Um and we max that out every year to to get the matching contributions.

I have the ESPP uh along with other investments that I that I place. And then we have college funds for our kids.

And the issue is um I manage So, my wife manages all the month-to-month, you know, daily checking operations. And she wants to have the 6-month savings um in, you know, in a savings account that tied to the checking account. And I keep explaining to her and showing her that hey, we've got all this money elsewhere, you know, money market funds and um you know, stocks and you know, we have money The money market has about uh 100,000 in there. Okay. Would you say that that's more than 6 months of expenses?

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Definitely, yeah.

so, you're saying she wants money on top of that. It sounds like she just wants a little slush fund so that when if you go over budget, it's all good, right?

Uh no, cuz we we do use the uh the money app, and that's working out well. She just wants to have access to it, yeah.

I don't know if it's Yeah, I don't know if it's much access. I just wonder, Jason, because in your head, yeah, there's money there, but it's kind of attributed to whatever may be needed.

And I think for her, there could be a level of safety of saying, "Hey, we're going to open up a you know, a new account in this money market account, and we're labeling it the emergency fund, and we're going to have 6 months in there, and that's it." And like that that's what it's titled, that's what it's labeled, and that's what it is and nothing else. Because when you start to say cuz I could even feel that. Like, yeah, there's money here or there, and there's some stocks and And it's like, "Okay, but how how can I get to it if we really need it?" I think it's more of a security thing for her.

And I think and I think that level of organization, too, is really healthy and good. And so, what you could do, Jason, seriously, and and this is what we tell people for your emergency fund, it's its own account, it's over here, you don't touch it unless you need it, but it's designated specifically for that. And do would that help her, do you think, if you just say, "Yeah, we're going to take some of this 100,000, have another account, we're not touching it, but it's here if we need it." I I think it would, but the question is, you know, the follow-up question to that is, do we stop the baby steps four, five, and six to get you have 100,000 money.

You have the money in the in that money market account.

I see. just because it's the same place where like all your re- like where all of your retirement is and like where all your investing is? Is that why she's not viewing it as an emergency fund? That's right, yeah. And you know, we've had issues come up.

Like last year in the rental, we had a flood that we had to deal with, and we went into, you know, we went into one of the accounts, we pulled the money out, we paid cash, there was no issue. You know, we we've got peace, right?

Yeah, but then did you go back and replenish that? Cuz in her head, she's like, "Oh my gosh, we've used that. Is it here?" I don't know. I could see what she's saying, cuz that's how I am.

Like, we have a high-yield savings account, Jason, my husband and I. And so, we'll put extra savings every month in this fund um but underneath it, like when I go into ally.com, we have one line that says like savings. We have one line that says emergency fund with that amount of money. And I need those separate.

Like, I need to know there's this there's this here, and we don't touch that, but everything else is just extra savings on top of what we need.

Here's money we just don't touch, and it's here just in case crap hits the fan. And that feels good to me with the distinction. Like, even, Jason, this may sound crazy. Even to the point that I'm like, if we're talking about money, I'm like, "Okay, how much is in the is in the high yield?" He'll give me the number, and I'm always like, "Does that Is that the emergency fund?

Does that count the emergency fund? Are you adding those together?" And he's like, "No, I never add them together for your sanity." And I'm like, "Thank you." So, it's So, you don't think we should slow down on on paying off mortgage early? You think No, you have You have the money. You have the money.

So, I would take that what that I would take part of that 100,000 that you have in cash or somewhere else. I don't care where you get it. And get a 6-month emergency fund in a new account and label it emergency fund, and I think that will ease her her tension. I really do.

I think that would be That's what I would do. That's what I would want personally.

an emergency fund. And is there something we're missing here? Is it just as simple as relabeling this money?

Yeah, it is. It's because she wants, you know, in the regular checking savings account that are, you know, in the day-to-day operations, she wants to see the savings account be the 6 months. And I said, "Well, if we want to do that, then we got to stop She is wrong about If we want to do that, then we got to stop, you know, we got to stop on the, you know, the extra mortgage payments we're making, we got to stop on the 401k payment, we got to, you know, we got to stop those other baby steps to rebuild that that 6-month savings.

we have Ally where we do all of our savings, and then we have like Chase over here that has, you know, other things. And so, I wouldn't keep it with your normal day-to-day funds, but to your point, I mean, we recommend all the time you can keep it in a money market or you can keep it in a high-yield savings account. So, whatever feels right, but to Rachel's point, you do have that money, and so I think that you guys both have to give a little and take a little. You have to be willing to pull it out of a money market cuz for whatever reason that's making her feel some type of way, and then she's got to be fine with you putting it in someplace else that has a nice rate of return, you know, Ally's a great one.

we used to say back when cash was like the prevalent thing of the emergency fund, and it would be like, you know, don't put it in the sock drawer where the pizza guy can get it. Like kind of that joke that like it can't be so accessible that you just go and you can just get it, you know. You want to forget about it. Yes, you want it in a place really blessed because we don't argue about this.

This is just like, you know, we never argue about money. We never we don't have to. And it's just like, "What's the best approach, you know?" Yes. Yep.

I think I think for her to know she can get access to it if you guys need it for an emergency, number one. And number two, for her just peace of mind that there's extra money over here. It's for this. It's not going to get tied up in some stock deal that you're doing, Jason, here.

Or that Right, like it's like there's a level of like that's for the emergency fund, and we don't touch it. And I think Okay. Now, one one quick question. Now, do you pay off your primary first or your rental first when you're in the baby steps?

Primary. Okay.

Perfect. Awesome.

Thank you so much. Thank you for the call. That's a really, you know, that's an interesting thing, Rachel, because I do think that when it comes to savings, you know, you do have to keep it a little bit. It's got to be enough out of reach to where you don't quote accidentally spend it, but at the same time, it's got to be liquid enough to where if the water heater goes out and you can't cash flow it, you can get to it. So, you don't want to invest it.

And you made a good point earlier that And I don't think this was her I from what he was saying, but you also don't want to have a bunch of money so that you can be lazy with your budgeting and you spend more than you make, but it's okay cuz we got 10 grand over here.

We'll just get it. Yeah. Don't don't let it be a cushion for your everyday expenses. It's a cushion between you and life when the big stuff happens. That's your emergency fund, not to cover lifestyle. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

I'm Rachel Cruze, hosting with Jade Warshaw. And we're going to go to Brandon in Columbus, Ohio. Hey Brandon, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you doing today? We're doing great. How can we help?

So, the reason I'm calling is um I can't seem to build any kind of wealth whatsoever. Mhm. What's happening? Tell us more. Well, well, you know um I got I got three boys and I got a wife that stays at home and I'm the only income. But I think I make okay money, but every time I try to build some wealth, you know, like something happens with the kids or Yeah. or something like that like Tell us about your income. What are you making every year?

Well, well, I'm a union electrician.

Okay. So, I make

about 15, 28 if I work on Saturdays.

Okay. work Saturdays. So, every month, if you look at your budget, how much is on that top item?

Um um my budget I I takes about 4,800

and some change maybe. Okay. But I think it's about 4,800.

Income-wise, that's what you're bringing in?

Income-wise, I'm bringing in maybe about six. Okay, so 6,000. Okay, and then do

you guys have debt?

Well, you know, I got I got my Jeep and

my old lady has her her van.

Yeah, is that on payments?

It I wish it wasn't, but it is. Yeah, that's fine. How much how much do you guys owe on on yours?

Well, well, my Jeep, I got maybe maybe

eight 8,000 left and on her van

we just had to get, so it's around 22.

Okay. How much did you just got it?

Yeah, we just got it maybe about a week ago. How much are your car payments in the on those both of those?

Well, that's where it's eating me. It is my Jeep. On my Jeep, I'm paying about four.

On her van, I'm paying around six.

Ooh, I bet you ooh, that's $1,000.

Okay, what else? So, you got the Jeep, the van, what else do you have? Are there credit cards? Do you have any other loans?

Um no, I really don't have loans. I mean

I mean, we got, you know, groceries and we got we got rent. Okay, so those that's fine.

Those are fixed expenses on your budget, but do you have any other debt, which is, you know, a lump sum of money that you owe? Um I mean maybe when I was younger let's I'll just keep it easy. I'll probably say maybe about 10 grand, maybe. What would it be? And credit cards? Oh No, it it it probably be a little bit of hospital and may maybe uh

uh and that's miscellaneous. I'm I'm sorry, I'm kind of lost for words. That's okay. That's okay. Like Brandon, how old are your kids?

I got a 10-year-old, I got a 6-year-old and I got a one about to be 2-year-old.

Okay, perfect. Okay, so here's the thing. I think you're having a hard time building wealth because your biggest wealth building tool is your income. And right now, $1,000 of your income is going or and maybe a little bit more is going towards your debt payments every single month.

And uh it sounds like I'm not sure, but it sounds like maybe you're trying to do a little of this, a little of that, a little of that over here. And the method that we teach you is going to give you focused intensity on one area at a time for the most part. So, Right.

That's the problem. I don't. I can't seem to save a dollar. Okay, so let's go

back to the the essentials here. I think the first thing here is the budget. You told me that out of $6,000 a month, it takes 4,800 to run your household. So,

that means somewhere along the way there's $1,200 left if you're doing your budget correct.

Right. But you just said you you can't find a dollar. So, something about that budget isn't adding up. So, let's kind of let Rachel and I give you a quick crash course with the budget. Yeah, because the the thing is with the budget, Brandon, is that it needs to be realistic. So, you keep saying you know, which I get. We Jade has kids, I have little kids, so stuff does come up, you know, when you're a family and there's multiple people you're keeping afloat.

Um so, either you need to redo the budget and say, "Okay, realistically, we need a kids line item because stuff is going to come up every month that we have to pay school fees, like whatever it may be." Yep, that we're going to put in um and then there also may be, Brandon, a you know, a time that you and your wife sit down and you say, "Okay, we're going to limit this budget and just because we feel like, you know, the kids need X, Y, and Z, we may tell them no right now." Um because your goal is going to be to get out of debt.

And so, that budget is really, really key in tightening up that budget uh is going to is going to be huge. So, that's going to automatically probably give you some of that breathing room of that $1,200 that we don't, you know, it kind of just disappears.

piece of this I would do, okay, so Rachel's telling you to tighten up the budget.

Yeah. what you're going next? Yeah, you just bought this car for $22,000 with a $600 payment a month, Brandon.

Sell it. Sell it. Yeah, because and we always say not to have anything with wheels and motors that is more than half of your annual income. And you guys are right over that. I mean, you're making 60.

Yeah, and I mean, you guys are you're you're you're close to that. You're at 30. I mean, like that's so you're it's too much. You have too much car. And I think you're feeling that, Brandon.

You're feeling that. And so, looking to say, "Okay, what are our options? What can we do that is different?" Um and it's probably going to be selling that van. Mhm. And yeah, and that's going to

take So, let's put this in the timeline.

So, the first thing you're doing what Rachel said, you're getting on your budget, you're getting a realistic budget, you're figuring out what can we cut so that this $1,200 is actually a reality. And it's you and your wife agreeing to that because you need that money so you can save up a little bit to get out of this car and get into a car that you can afford because no more car no more car payments, right? So, you need at least five, six thousand dollars to make this thing happen, at least, right? So, we're getting out of this car and then after that, it's okay.

We freed up $600, we can breathe a little bit, and maybe it's you picking up a side hustle. Your wife, she's got the 2-year-old at home, but there's, you know, at least it's one at home and not the others. And so, what can she do to bring in extra income?

how quickly you clean up this mess by deciding how much more money comes in because the ultimate goal is building wealth. The debt is standing in the way that you clear out the debt, and then you get yourself that emergency fund of three to six months saved. Now you're going to feel peace about day-to-day life, right? So, if an emergency hits you, you're fine.

And now you can actually start building wealth. You can start investing into your 401k if you have it. Start investing into a Roth IRA as an option, but we've got to get through baby steps one through three one through three first. I um have you looked into, you know, other small businesses in your area and what they're paying for electricians?

Well, um I mean, I've I mean, I've done I did solar for seven years and, you know, I I I have a little LLC with that.

But um I I mean, in realistically, until I hit a journeyman's card, you know, I'm not really there's really nothing out there that's maybe paying more. I mean, it may be a dollar. It may be two dollars, but it's nothing like jumping up another 10 to 12,000 dollars.

Yeah, cuz I was just curious if um you know, sometimes in the private sector there's um you know, other opportunities. Uh so, I just didn't know if you had explored that because cuz I think the goal too, Brandon, is um you know, you guys make 60,000. And yes, there's a level of intensity during baby steps one through three to kind of get you out of this hole, so there will be, you know, extra work here or there, all of that, but I think the goal is eventually to be able to live off of your income comfortably and enjoy it, be able to put some money aside for retirement, you know, do some of these things to enjoy your life.

then that's where a bigger conversation is. And you guys are renting right now, right? So, even home ownership um to be in the picture eventually, which I know can probably feels very overwhelming right now to think about, but um but to be able to to get there. But hey, um Brandon, I want you to hold on the line because Christian's going to pick up and I want to gift you guys Financial Peace University, you and your wife.

This is our nine-lesson course, and go through this and and again, it runs the gamut, everything from the budget to getting out of debt, all of it. And then, you know what? And hold on the line, too. Uh and Christian, we'll throw in some Chris Hogan's stuff. He has a great career assessments that would just be interesting, Brandon. And again, being an electrician making 60 grand, that's fabulous work and wonderful, but

um I think we I think people do get to a reality of, "Okay, how do I sustain my life?" Um and if you can ever make more, that's going to help it without completely shifting your lifestyle. So, just out of curiosity, maybe dig into some of that, too, um and see if that kind of triggers anything for you. So, thanks for the call, Brandon. You guys got this. Just stay on track. This is the Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Radio.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruze hosting today with Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next is Emily in Pensacola. Hey Emily, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much y'all for taking my call. I appreciate it. Absolutely. How can we help?

Okay, so my husband and I um had gone through Financial Peace gosh over a decade ago, but you know, life happened and five kids happened. And right now we're back on it, but finishing up baby step number two.

Um we have no consumer debt, a little bit of student loans left that we expect to be paid off by the end of this year.

Um and then we'll just be left with our mortgage.

We are in a 30-year veteran loan, um

but we plan to pay it off early within hopefully 10 to 15 years. My question is, so right now we have My question is kind of regarding my credit score. We have four credit cards right now that are open but frozen. We have not used them in probably about a year.

Um we're kind of uh con- I guess not sure what to do with those accounts.

Um we're kind of leaving them open right now so that if we close them, they don't affect credit score. Our hope is that um

if we have the opportunity in the next few years to refinance to get a lower interest rate that we would do that in order to help us pay off our mortgage even quicker. Um but we're just not sure. Do we close our credit cards uh and if and risk that affecting our credit score? We like would that affect it drastically? Um or do we leave them open and frozen and kind of maintain our credit score? Um we just don't kind of want to tank it and lose that that chance to refinance in the future.

So So there is something to be said about um when you're going through the process of paying off debt, there's kind of this spoken or in some cases unspoken thought that okay, when we do this, we're not borrowing money again, therefore we wouldn't need our credit score again, therefore we can close our credit cards. And so in your case, you're kind of thinking about, well, we don't plan on borrowing money anymore, but we want to refinance.

And I can just tell you just from personal personal um situation, we have a mortgage and we don't have any other credit cards and we don't have anything else. And before we had our mortgage, our credit score went to zero. We purchased a home with a a

loan, and our credit is like almost perfect, and all we have on there is our mortgage.

So you might see an initial drop just because you're closing accounts, but it's not going to go to zero and it's not going to be terrible because you're still have something major like a mortgage that you're paying every single month on time. And so there is part of that that it's it's going to make it okay and it's going to keep it uh you know, in the upper range. And so I don't think you have to be worried about that. But I kind of my question for you is

um do you have any other qualms about your credit score? Cuz I I do think that when you go and set out to follow the Ramsey plan, you have to know eventually your credit score is going to go to zero and you kind of have to cut ties with that old way of thinking.

Mhm. Yeah, and I so ultimately like we do want our credit score to be undeterminable. Like that is our ultimate goal. We don't plan on taking out any more debt like you had said.

Like we have two cars, they're old, they're paid for, so we um have basically our credit cards are frozen in in a safe. So we we haven't even kind of activated the new ones that they send us all the time. Um but it's been more of a concern that um because that was our extended length of credit um attached to

some of these cards that you know, with wanting to potentially refinance in order to get the house paid off, um that we just didn't want to What's your interest rate now?

Uh like 6.8.

Okay. So you guys just recently bought in the last year or two. Okay.

Then if I were you, I'd cancel them sooner than later so that your score has the ability to kind of do what it's going to do and then even out to where it's going to even out. And then when the time comes, who knows when Yeah.

get lower, then you will have a clear indicator of what it will be and it won't be in that fluctuation stage.

Yeah, and Emily, when you look at the calculations of how a credit score is even mathematically determined, one of the pieces of the pie is new debt. And you guys aren't doing that. So in one sense, you got everything frozen, but you're not taking on new debt, so you're not playing the game naturally anyway.

So there is a chance even because of that mathematically speaking, you may even see a downtick slowly because you're not playing that game. And so if you're not playing it, I would just cut ties with it. And like what Jade said, even back out or, you know, if if all else fails, like you're going to be fine. You know what I mean?

So So in my head it is it's just a cuz that I don't want I don't want to count out there floating around even if they're frozen. No way.

And sadly, the truth is who knows who knows what's going to happen in the future. So I'd rather take things under my control and do something that I can do, which is just get rid of them, close it out, and then see how the world shakes out and then go from there. 100%.

next let's go to Kyle in Charlotte. Hey

Kyle, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are y'all? We're doing well.

How can we help?

So I got a little dilemma. I'm just been started watching uh the Ramsey Show probably 2 months ago, and I'm currently

in baby step one. I did um get the EveryDollar app and using that created a budget. Um So I have me and my fiance, we have a 3-month-old baby girl. Um she

has a 14-year-old daughter uh actually lives with us as well.

Um we bought a home about a 2 years ago.

Um mortgage is around 157,000 left on it.

Um she has two vehicle loans. Um one of them is around 18,000, the other one's around 8,000.

Um so she also has three credit cards um

and she has a personal loan. So all of

So I I don't have any debt currently in my name. Um but her debt all of her debt

together is around 42,000 Okay. not including the home mortgage.

Okay. So she stays home. She's a home stayed home mother. Um I'm a full-time firefighter. Um I have two part-time jobs as well. Um

and I'm cur- I'm trying to figure out, you know,

I'm I am going to snowball the debt after I do the baby step one, which that's baby step two, but I'm trying to get her on board with the with the the budget. When do you get married?

Uh we we actually aren't. I don't have a marriage date yet. That's what I was going to going to say as well. So our our relationship is actually hanging on by a thread because of, you know, we don't see eye to eye on the financial state. That's a big deal.

That's a big deal. Kyle, has that has that um has that changed in the last 2 months since you've been watching us or has it always been like that?

Um so it's been like that more since my my daughter was born. Um Okay. You know,

I'm I've always been a saver and, you know, now that my daughter's born, you know, I grew up my parents separated when I was 12. Um I've seen I'm I've I know how

that affects the the the kids, and I don't want that. Yeah. And, you know, I I I look at the future like anything can happen. So and

she she's not like that. Like I asked her the other day cuz I was listening, and I was like, you know, what is your 10-year goal?

Where do you see yourself in 10 years? And she's she's told me, she said, you know, I I just I worry about today. I don't worry about 10 years. And I'm like, you know, So when you ask her her philosophy on on

money, and you're asking her, hey, like, are you at a point in life where you're done borrowing? How do you feel about paying off debt? Is she able to give an answer that has any promise?

So she will say she don't want to borrow any more money, but it's just like now, you know, um she's made some financial decisions that I didn't agree with.

And, you know, I don't I don't have I didn't have the control over that at that point. Yeah. Well, it's Listen, she can do what she wants. The hard part is you guys are um in in a this situation is made more complex because you're not yet married, but you're kind of in this situation where your life seems like you're married. So you you feel like like Listen, I have to step in and pay off this debt. Her debt's my debt. And so the whole thing is very confused. And I think that as

much as you can put some clarity around that and either marry her or not, but I would not start paying off this debt until you've decided if this is the person that you're going to spend your life with. Yeah. Yeah, and Kyle, and I would have the conversation with her from a vulnerable you know, not just well, what are you you you pointing?

Tell her you. Like what's going on in Kyle? What is the fear that you have?

What is going on? And and and and start these conversations. And you've said this before, Jade, on different shows, but like it take it sometimes takes time, right? You've had a mindset, a natural shift, and then Ramsey's probably confirmed that cuz we lean probably more on your side, Kyle, but you guys together need to sit down and have these conversations.

But for now, keep the finances separate. You don't need to be paying on her debt cuz if she's not getting out of debt, she's digging herself deeper in a hole.

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Okay. Today's question comes from Matthew in Oregon. He says, "My wife and I are debt-free except our expensive townhome. We bought it in 2022 with a 30-year term mortgage. Our monthly payment is about $4,200 a month including escrow and PMI, while our net take-home pay is $8,750

a month. Wow. Our annual gross income is $110,000, which means our housing costs take up about 40% of our income, which

limits how much we can invest. We both have the potential for income growth, but today's high cost of living is challenging, especially with four kids.

We're in baby step four, five, and six, but still feel trapped. It's hard to see a finish line of no mortgage payment.

Should we stay where we're at and wait for our income to grow or sell our house

and move? Ugh. This is

This is one of those reality moments, Rachel, I think that if you're if you're truly um engaged in

what's going on financially in your home, these are the moments where it's like it's really tough because um for those of you who don't know, here we teach that your payment shouldn't be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And the reason for that is once it creeps beyond that, especially beyond 30%, is you really do start to feel that, and you start to experience what we call being house poor, and your bless your blessing of a house now becomes a burden, right? Because you're not able to have the margin to do the things that life calls for.

I mean, in this case it could be anything from child care, it could be anything from they're wanting to pay off their mortgage, and they don't have any margin. Yeah, well, if you're in baby step four, you're funding 15% of your income in retirement. So, automatically, that's taking it you have 45% of your income to live off of. That's before food and utilities and everything.

So, it does it starts to dwindle not always like in the in the right spots, right? And so And if you give 10%, forget about it. That's right. Okay, that's right.

Now you're down to 35% and for basic living.

it's almost that feeling of like we work too hard to feel this broke. Mhm. You know what I mean? Like, we shouldn't feel like this. Mhm. Um and it is because 40% of your income is going to housing. And so um yeah, I mean, I I would be looking elsewhere cuz you say an expensive townhome, which I'm assuming is a really nice one. Um probably in a nice area.

Yeah. And so, I would be looking for other options. You know, you may be getting an older home. It may not be near the city cuz that's usually where prices go up cuz the closer you are to the city. Um so, you may be moving out and all of it, which I know with four kids. I know it's so easier said than done. Just be like, "Oh yeah, I'll get up and move." I know that that's like could be changing schools, all of this.

But the quality of your life and going to bed at night and having peace and not stressing and not being, you know, to this point of like on a like you just feel like, "Oh my gosh, I just go to I go to a job and I have no progress in my life." Like, that is daunting. That's for the birds. You go Look at about how much time you spend at work. You go to work all day, eight hours a day, some people far more than that.

And then you you feel like you have nothing to show for. You can't enjoy your life. You can't do the things that make you feel like you're making progress in life.

um a way for their income to go up. Now, there's been times people have called in the show and they're like, "Hey, uh I'm at 30% of my income, but I know that I have a raise coming up in the next 12 months. And if we get that raise, you know, it'll equal out." And so, there's a part of that where if they said, "Hey, we see a place where we're going to get uh you know, a 15% increase." Both of us.

Um but only if that's 100% absolutely going to be true. Yes. Yeah, don't be on a wish and a prayer of it maybe happening, and then you're stuck in the cycle for the next four to five years cuz that's going to be exhausting. Yeah. All right, let's go to Will in Miami. Hi, Will.

Welcome to the show.

Hello, how are you? Doing great. How can we help? Yes. So, uh my parent my my father bought a a car

two years ago. Uh this is a Mercedes.

He's a retiree uh surgeon. And he now works as a surgical

assistant.

Here, since all the recession that and

all the all the economic problems we've been going through the country, that area of health uh he hasn't been able to get a job on for the last year.

He has some stuff on and off, but he hasn't been able to have a stable job. Uh the payment for this car is $500

a month, $550 plus insurance.

That runs up to somewhere between $650

to $700 a month.

And because because he doesn't have a job right now, it's been really difficult to maintain all the expenses. What's he doing to maintain it?

I mean, right now all our family is working. We are immigrants.

And everybody contributes. Are you paying for your dad's car payment?

No, I'm not. I'm just saying that everybody's paying their fair share, but

uh the car right now is one of those

great expenses.

Are you in the same Are you all under the same roof? Yes. Okay. And so, explain to Rachel and I

kind of how that works. When you say everybody's paying their fair share, what does that mean?

So, between my sister and I, we our rent

is $3,000.

Uh my sister and I pay about half of

that. Okay.

And the rest of the expenses

are covered by our parents. Okay.

Although we didn't start paying until

recently, until about six months ago.

Uh my sister just graduated from college. I'm still a student.

Okay. How old are you, Will?

Oh, I'm I'm 28. I'm just a late bloomer student. That's fine. I was just I was just curious. That's great. Okay, so it's just you and your sister. The The agreement is we all kind of live under one roof, but together you guys pay for half of the rent, and we pay for the other half and everything else.

Yes. And so, you're concerned that since your dad is not working, how is he affording to pay for this Mercedes or this expensive car that he has?

I mean, to to be to be honest, like we cannot afford anything right now.

Even though we are able to cover the basics, that doesn't cover the credit card debts

my parents have. Mhm. That's that's why

I I believe that the car is one of the things that is

uh taking them down. So, the hard Oh, go ahead, Rachel. Well, so okay, a couple of things, Will. Um where did you guys immigrate from? I'm just curious.

Oh, uh we are originally from Venezuela.

Okay, yeah, yeah. We've been here for eight years. We are We became citizens last year. Okay. I I The only reason I ask is I do find even in the Hispanic culture, there is this like gathering of family, right? There is There is more than just the standard American that's like, "Oh, it's you know, Americans I just feel like we're more independent, and you just kind of, you know, you run you run on your own track.

Uh where other countries, other cultures, there is more of this like family-oriented life. Um so, I'm not saying one is wrong or the other, Will, but as a 28-year-old guy and I know you want to support your parents and and and be there for them and all of it. For your your own dignity, Will, as a man, um emotionally,

I do want you to somewhat separate what your parents have chosen with their own lifestyle versus what you're choosing, right? So, they've chosen to or he's chosen to have a Mercedes, okay? That's his choice. You have not done that.

The credit cards, I don't know if the credit cards are paying the light bill to keep the keep the the you know, the house going, that's one thing, but if it's credit card debt that's coming from your parents that charged their own cards for their own lifestyle, that is that is their money and their choices. Uh it does get a little bit confusing when you are living under one roof, so I think Will, emotionally, I would detach myself from your parents' choices. Um and until they start affecting you, which they might soon, Will, there may be a point that you say, "Hey, I'm going to have to make a different decision for my life." Yeah.

And I may have to go get a job, pause school, and do something different cuz I'm not going to be taken under because of their bad choices. But here's the thing, Will, Jade and I joked earlier, we were like, "There It takes a lot of therapy to realize you can't change people.

You're you're an awesome son and and we wish you the best. Thanks to all the guys in the booth, Jade. Thanks always for being a great co-host. Thanks to our live studio audience here in Nashville and thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with

my good friend and best-selling author, Jade Warshaw. And we are here to answer your questions, so give us a call at 888-825- 5225.

We'll be talking about your life, your money, your jobs, your families, relationships, so give us a call.

All right, up first this hour, we have George in Los Angeles, LA. Hey, George,

welcome to the show.

All right, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

All right, so I have $140,000 in debt right now and also my wages are

being garnished already. I've been sued um from a loan I didn't pay.

They're taking 25% of my income every week. Um every 2 weeks, so I'm just taking a lot of money. Uh I make about 90,000 gross. Uh I take home about 75,000 a year. My wife recently started working. I'm doing everything I possibly can to take um you know, more income, everything, but I'm I'm already up to the point where I'm kind of thinking of filing bankruptcy or selling my house.

So, I'm thinking what what's the better option, either to sell the home or file for bankruptcy. Okay, so tell me what was um what what's the debt, the 140?

Uh basically three loans, two personal loans. They're one of them's 50,000, the other one's another 50, and the other one uh is 40. Um one of them was 20,000. One

of them was a car, but I'm thinking I'm still I want to pay the car off, so I'm not going to put that one. The 20,000 is the car?

Yeah, one of them was 20,000. That one's still good. I'm paying that one off and the other is just all personal loans.

What were the loans for? What'd you use them for? Uh I got hurt a long time uh when I was

working and I needed a couple I needed some money just just to stay afloat my mortgage, so I just took out a lot of some loans and just kept paying it off, but then another one I took out to consolidate debt and ended up just splurging the money. Didn't really do what I had to do, so When does your wife and then When does your wife start adding to the income cuz you're making around 6,000 a month? Uh I started working like 4 months ago. And what's she making?

About um I would say 1,600 a month. Okay.

Okay. What is she doing?

Job-wise? Uh she just work she just works at at a a veterinary place. Okay. Do you guys have kids?

Yeah, two. You have two, okay.

Okay. And which of the loans are the ones that are garnishing your wages?

Uh it's just from a bank. It's the personal the one of the personal one of the 50,000?

Yeah. Okay.

And are both of those personal loans with the same bank?

No. No, okay.

And have you been current on the other $50,000 loan?

No, I'm I haven't paid anything for to anybody for a while already.

Okay. Okay. And so you've got the house Everything's everything's in collections basically except the car and the house.

So, they're they're taking almost $2,000 a little under $2,000 a month, right, garnishing from you. Yeah. And then Exactly. Yeah. what percentage of your mortgage is what percentage of your take-home pays your mortgage?

Uh I pay 1,800 a month for my mortgage.

Okay. Okay. Um oh boy. All right.

Yeah, we need you're you're not able to do anything here.

Um

Okay. So, the key here is we've got to find a way to get more money coming in and I'm wondering with the garnish, if is there any way that you can say, "Can we set up another payment play program because this one is like burying me alive." I tried everything already, spoke to lawyers. I I've done everything on my part to I just make some adjustments.

I've done pretty much all I can do. I even even if I get another job, they're still going to garnish, so at this point I'm I'm already maxed out. It's just I don't see like uh like another solution. They're they're just not budgeting at all. How old are your kids?

Uh one of them's eight and another one is five. Okay. Um is the 5-year-old in

kindergarten? Is anybody in daycare is what I'm getting at. They're both being homeschooled. Oh, that's right. Okay.

It okay. Um There's part of this that and you you and your wife are going to have to sit down. I mean, you're pretty much up against it and you could use all of the the money that you can get. Um Right.

Is there any way that cuz I I don't know

I'm not going to pretend to know a ton about homeschooling, but I know that there's some programs where even though they're not going into school, they're going into a program that's outside of your home. Like a co-op type Like a co-op type situation. Is there a way that you can still keep the value of homeschooling, but it's not your wife that's actually doing it, so that she can work

Um full-time? That's something I haven't I haven't thought about. I and I'm not saying forever, but I think that you're in a you you're back is against the wall and unfortunately when that happens, something you have to let go of something. Something has to change in order for you to change your situation and usually that is a sacrifice of some nature and there's just no getting around it.

All right. But I'd rather you keep control of the situation. Once you and Rachel, you can speak more to this, but once you hand it over to bankruptcy, you lose control and I don't want you to lose control of the situation. I want you to make every choice and feel like you have a say in everything that's going on.

Okay.

Um for the house, George, give me some of the numbers around that. What how much how much do you owe on it? How much is left on the mortgage? Uh the house is

right now at 390 is what we owe and five

it's worth about five almost 600,000.

Almost 600, okay.

Um Yeah.

You know, the car, I would probably I would sell the car, George. I know you're pay- making payments on it, but that's something that can easily be swapped up to to earn

some money and margin back into the budget that you can go back and get later after all of this, but again, back to that sacrificial mindset, like what can you squirt stir earth do to have any means to be able to

get ahead on some of this cuz some of it isn't this in collections and keeping a car payment afloat um is something that I I would because I mean, everything else is is in collections and if you get on that, I don't want even re- you know, being repoed on. Like I don't want anything like that. Like you're in a little bit of that situation that again, back to that control that Jade's talking about. Um how much could you sell the car for? Have you Kelly Blue Booked it?

Uh yeah, I I think I could sell it for like maybe 18 18 grand around there.

Okay. 18,000. It's I and I owe like about 18,000, so I mean, I could break even Yeah, great. on that one. It's It's just, you know, I mean, that's not I mean, I I guess I could do something like that. I mean, what's the payment on it?

It's just uh 500 a month. That's a lot.

Okay. I mean, $500 to have that freed up is a big deal. And if you are upside down, like this is one of those cases if you're upside down, you go down to the credit union, get a loan for the difference and a little bit more in order to get yourself a beater if you need it. And I'd rather have a $5,000 loan than a $20,000 loan, agree?

Correct. Plus, you freed up $500, you know, a little bit less than that a month when you take into consideration the new payment. Um yeah, you're going to have to make some tough choices. Mama's probably going back to work. You're probably getting rid of this car and you might have to consider what's And a part-time job, and then and then the house, yeah, could be could be in the in play. But I just want your habits to change as well, George. Uh but you guys got this. This is the Ramsey Show.

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All right, everybody, you're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm your co-host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Rachel Cruze.

And during the break, we were talking about non-negotiables and so many of us face this, whether you are dating someone and, you know, you have to bring up those conversations, Rachel, about money, about, you know, religious views, possibly political views. Like there's all these tough conversations to have, and when do you

know when you're dating somebody, when you get to that point that's like, okay, this is I've hit my point, right? Like we talked to somebody who was in a relationship for 3 years, and it's like, okay, maybe now's the time to start looking at this, talking about this.

But it's hard to know, especially if you

might see a little bit of progress and you're like, yes, this is progress, maybe we're going on the right direction. But what would you say, Rachel, is let's

let's let's call out some red flags of if you see this Mhm. this might be pump

the brakes. Money-wise. I was like, I don't know if I'm not a marriage therapist. I don't know if I No, I'm talking about finances.

Yes. Um I would say I always pump the brakes with people that feel like they have all the answers. Mhm. Like when it's this idea that like I I I don't have any more learning to do.

Oh. Like I'm kind of just stuck in my This is it. I'm good. And you're like, you don't want to grow or stretch or like hear something different?

Like to me in life right now, that feels so prideful. Yes. With money, and we get this call a lot with people that as we're talking about non-negotiables, so I guess this is a little bit on the other side of this. But this idea that, you know, we we talk and they're like, well, you know, he just tells me like he doesn't want to talk about it.

He's not going to talk about it. Or she doesn't she won't even she won't even enter the discussion. I'm like, That's exhausting. Like that's exhausting.

So, you can have your non-negotiables, but be but be humble about it. It's the spirit that you bring to it.

to me about Ramsey this, Ramsey that.

And whenever I try to tell her my views on why I want to keep my mortgage payment and invest it instead, she's so close-minded. Like she doesn't want to hear she feels like she's found this plan and that's it. Like there's no like let's talk about it from that point of view. I'm her. I would be like, okay, so talk me through that. Let's run some numbers.

Let's look. Let's have a conversation.

Mhm. Right? Not just you telling him, well, this is what it is. This is what you should be doing. mentality.

Um yeah. Being willing to listen. Very

much so. And ask questions. And ask questions. Be curious. Like that whole spirit as a person Mhm. I think is really important. But when you're so closed off and you don't even want a conversation, that to me is the big That's exhausting. Like, you know, that would be a red flag for me. I think they won't even they won't even talk about it. They avoid it, you know, all of this stuff and you're just like, oh man.

Yeah, I think that's a red flag. I think if you're talking about the future, like say you're dating and you're talking about, okay, like when we get married, you know, what are your views on combining money?

Mhm. Like maybe they maybe they've been very open about their money up until this point and you're like, yes, everything's going good. But then when you start thinking about, okay, when we get married, how is this going to work? Cuz I my thoughts are that we would combine our money and kind of have our goals together and if they're saying, oh, really?

Because I've worked really hard for my savings and Yep. that for me would be tough. would be tough. I add it add it a non-negotiable.

I think it's a non-negotiable, but there's part I'm not going to lie, there's part of me that wonders if there could be a journey there Mhm. over time. Yep.

So, these are you know, these are tough conversations, but I I would urge people to start having them early. If there's one thing that I can say that I kind of feel like I learned in my marriage is we didn't talk about that dating. Yes. Our

dating time was very fun and not a lot

of like We I mean, we talked about heavy stuff, but somehow the financial stuff just wasn't really in there. And then after the fact, it was like, oh, wait a minute. Luckily, there were certain things that we just naturally aligned on. Thank goodness. But yeah, have those

conversations.

Yeah. And And I would say debt would be one of those. I mean, it would be really tough to marry somebody and they're like, hey, I want to go, you know, $500,000 in debt to do real estate. And I'll be like, Oh, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. Yes. It's like that would stress that would be cuz then you live as the spouse in the stressful state 24/7, you know?

In investment world, I'm saying not just primary home, but it's like I I cuz I see these people on Instagram, TikTok, and they're all about real estate investing. Leveraged to their eyeballs. Yes, and I just watch that. I'm like, oh my gosh, that would be so hard.

It that would be a tough that would be a tough marriage for me. That is because on the one hand, and I mean, even if it's not real estate, even if it's just one person like, I have this business goal or this aspiration. I want to open a restaurant, whatever it is, but their viewpoint is I go into debt to do this. And if you're the spouse who says, hey, I I don't feel comfortable with debt, I don't like debt, and they view that as you're not supporting my dream or you're not Mhm.

Like you don't believe in me. You don't believe this is going to work and we'll be able to pay it off. That right there, Yes.

tough conversation to have. Yes. Now, don't get me wrong, I still stand my ground because I feel like I'm not like, can we do it over time? Is there a way to not leverage debt? Yes. Yes. Ooh, goodness. All good things are to talk of. It's hard and Ooh. Good stuff. All right, let's go to the phone lines where we've got Anna in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Anna?

Anna? Hello. How are you guys doing?

Doing good. How are you? Sorry I said your name wrong. It's Anna, right?

You're okay. It is Anna. Mhm.

Um so, I have a question and I'm hoping that y'all can kind of help me out cuz I've been thinking about it for a little while. Mhm. Um I am expecting to get a

raise here soon, within the next maybe 2

months, um at work, and it's about I'm

hoping like 20,000 extra a year.

Um I'm not certain though if I should

save that amount every year or use it to pay off my student loan debt. That's awesome. 60 Yeah, I have about $65,000 of student loan debt that I just um accrued here recently um going back to

school to get my master's. Mhm.

Um and it's just me and my kids. I don't

get child support. How many kids? Um I

have three. Okay.

One my son is um 19 though now, and so

he's um he wants to go to school. That's a whole 'nother situation and needing a little bit of money for that. Yeah. But I guess my question is just

should I save that extra 20 a year

for me and my kids just like for security type stuff. Mhm. Or should I um

just use it all to pay off the student loan debt? Cuz I don't want it to go from 65 to $200,000.

Of course, and that's a great way of thinking. Number one, congratulations on the raise. That's excellent. Um so, if you're kind of new to the Ramsey Show, we we teach everything kind of through a series of baby steps, right?

There's these seven baby steps that you can take that build on each other um to ultimately get you to this place of financial peace, right? And so, Yep. the advice that I'm going to give you is based on that.

So, if you can just out of that $20,000 raise or out of your bank account or whatever you have of money now, if you

can just set a thousand dollars aside and just, okay, I've got that there. And then the second baby step is, yeah, you pay off your debt because when you pay off debt, you're eliminating that risk, you're eliminating that financial uncertainty that's in your life. And that that's usually the point of stress that people feel is, oh my gosh, I've got to make these payments or these debt collectors are calling me or my payment is due, right? That's usually the source of stress that people um feel when it relates to their money.

So, in your case, I would say, if you've got this extra money, congratulations. Let's put it to whatever baby step you're on so that you can keep going in the right direction to get to that ultimate financial peace. And it sounds like in your case, you would be on baby step two where you are paying off the debt.

Um so, I make about 4,000 a month. It's

about 60,000 a year. Okay. Um

And And then with the $20,000 will come, so that'll be about 80.

Mhm. Okay, great. And I already I have this I have the emergency fund, and I even have about 30,000 in a CD account

that I put up one of I sold my house last year. So, I have that saved.

Okay. That's great.

I mean, I would put the Anna I would It's going to make you nervous, but I would put that towards your debt. And that will take a huge chunk out of this debt, and you're going to make great I mean, you're going to make 80 grand.

So, you have $35,000 left. I mean, you could pay this off in 18 24 months.

Yeah. And honestly, when that CD matures, I'd probably put that towards the debt and knock it out. 65,000

I I would do that. And then once the debt is gone, I'd save back up that money. And I just keep it in a high yield to where it's like very liquid. Um

but yeah. Listen, I'm proud of you. I think that you're doing all the right things. You've got good instincts and good intuitions. Yes, you're doing great. Taking great care of your family. Mhm.

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All right, you're listening to the Ramsey show. If you want to give us a call, it's a live show, so you can do that. The number is 888-825-5225 will get you on the line. Again, I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Rachel Cruze. We're the ones that'll be taking your calls this hour. So, let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Samantha in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Samantha?

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

You bet. Um I am new to the baby steps,

um and I was technically on baby step two, um but I left an abusive relationship, and I'm going through a custody battle right now, so I've incurred additional debt for attorney fees. So, I'm trying to figure out my next steps going forward. Um should I pause making additional payments like towards my debt and just work on saving money for additional attorney fees that might come up?

Yeah. I I would. This is definitely a storm. I mean, we I would categorize this as a storm, and we do say that when you're in baby step two especially, there's a couple of things that would cause you to kind of pause, and that would be a baby on the way or some sort of storm or major emergency that is causing you to kind of have to just hold hold tight for a minute.

becomes more of a priority at that point than paying off debt, right? We're all about paying off debt, but your child is a priority there, right? If there's a health issue that you have to pause to make sure that you can get yourself in a healthy place, that is you know, yeah, pregnancy, like anything that is um takes precedent, right? Which is usually a relational situation or a health situation.

We for sure say pause um and get that in order. I'm so sorry, Samantha. Um I'm I'm always so impressed with women like you that that choose to to step out of a situation like that cuz that cycle can be so um so hard to break out of. Uh how long has this been going on?

Um so, going on 2 years. The first part

was when he tried to fight the restraining order. So, that was the first time I took on attorney fees, and then now and I he was he was in jail for a bit for violating the restraining order, but now he's out, so now he's trying to come for full custody. Oh my gosh. How many kids do you have?

Luckily, I only have one. Okay. Me and my daughter, but it's still a lot. How is your like financial situation? How is your home situation?

Um so, I currently rent and am safe. Um

luckily, I'm with family, and I make about 52,000 a year. Good. Um but my

debt went from I got it down to 12,000, and now it's back up at 20. So.

Okay. And what are you Is that just the out- Is that just the 20,000 is the attorney fees?

No. So, um about 10,000 of it was attorney fees. Um 6,000 was about credit card, three about uh student loans, and then about 2,000 left on my car loan.

Okay. Um Do you have any Do you have any savings right now that you're pulling from or are you just pretty much incurring the debt as the attorney fees come up?

So, I was able to pull from like 401k um

to kind of help with this cuz it was so I wasn't expecting it. You know, I thought after the restraining order was standing that that was going to be it.

Um so, I wasn't expecting this.

So, I was able to get a little bit of help through that, but of course, I I

want to pay all of this back as quickly as possible, but my biggest fear is I don't know what's going to happen 3 to 6 months from now to the you know,

next year as well. Right. Okay, so are you still in the middle of this then?

I am, yeah. Okay. And has your has your lawyer given you any time frame by any chance? Like do you know I mean, you're saying 3 to 6 months, you know, um like does he have any conclusion of like when this will end?

No. No, because we're still waiting on

mediation, um and then more than likely that nothing's going to happen in there because my ex of course, he's not going to agree to anything. Mhm. Um Does your ex have a lot of money? Is that why he's trying to Is he trying to drain you out on this?

I yeah, they think so. Okay. Because yeah, he comes from money, so he knows that I would do anything to protect our daughter. Um so, he knows that I'm willing to

you know, force you know, figure out ways to get the money because he he knows I'm I'm not going to represent myself. I'm not in the position to do that, you know, emotionally and so Mhm. What um Is there anybody around you that has the ability to help with this? That wants to?

Cuz the truth is this is costing you money, and it's costing you money that you don't have.

And I do believe like I'm I believe that

the custody is going to end up with you because from what you're telling me, there's clearly track record that this is an abusive person, especially the fact that he's ended in jail for trying to violate this. So, I I have a feeling that this will end with you, but how long can you go down this track?

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yes, so Samantha, so I Yeah, if I were you, um if I was in your position right now, I would stay current on everything.

I would not get behind. So, I would say I would be paying your minimum payments on everything, and then on the side finding that margin um month to month to be able to put some money aside. So, as these fees come up, you do have an account that you're going to be able to pull from.

Um and then I would also start to evaluate as much as you can the um

consistency of how often the bills are

coming, how often you guys are you're using the lawyer, if there is mediation, and all of it. Um because I think a goal would be small goals would to say, "Okay, there's some money set aside for attorney fees." And the truth is I may have to go into debt for that, but if I can at least maybe knock out that $2,000 car loan in the midst of this, right?

Because it's not something that's going to be solved that sounds like even maybe even the next 12 months. So, I don't want you sitting idle financially during that time, but I do want you to put some cushion between you and life. So, putting some money away um kind of for an emergency fund that you can pull some of that for attorney fees as they come up, but then also giving yourself a goal financially to start making some progress.

Absolutely. I mean, you There's only 2,000 left on the car. What's the payment on that? What will you get back in your pocket monthly when you pay that off?

Uh so, I pay about 296 a month for the car loan. Good. So, another $300, that's great. To Rachel's point, that's even more money that you you'll be able to set aside.

Um so, yeah. Like no disguising the fact that this is tough, and you know, you've got your work cut out for you in a lot of ways, but I think just being really intentional, still sticking to still creating a plan and sticking to that plan, whatever you decide that plan is, is going to be really paramount for you walking through this. That's so so so so tough. I know.

Ugh, tough to walk through. All right.

Uh Do you want to try to take another call right quick? Let's try it. Caleb in Norfolk, Virginia. What's going on, Caleb?

Hey. Thanks for taking my call. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. How can we help?

Um so my question is regarding life insurance. I'm currently in the military, but I'm getting out in about 3 months. I have life insurance through the military.

It's called super service members group life insurance. I pay about $31 a month for a $500,000 policy. My question is whenever I get out, I have the option for a limited time really to roll that over into what's called veterans group life insurance, which is about $35 a month.

Um and that will, you know, increase about every 5 years.

Um I'm 26 now. I have no debt, but really

I'm just unsure cuz I don't have a a wife or children that I don't really have anybody relying on my wage but me, so I'm just kind of looking for some guidance here. Yeah, I mean Kim, I don't think you really have to re-up this or roll it over. I mean, I I wouldn't. The reason really you have life insurance is if someone is dependent upon your income.

So that would be a spouse or children.

And as a single person, I mean, I would have some money, you know, set aside that if something were to happen to you that covers funeral costs and that kind of thing, but I don't think you need a life insurance policy for that. So I probably would just end up canceling it once you get out. I agree. I agree with that statement. And if you don't have to pay it now, I wouldn't pay it now.

Forget the rollover. I would get out of it now if I could cuz you really don't need it.

All right. That does it for that. Yeah, I think people forget all the time Rachel that there's a perfect purpose to life insurance. It's not necessarily to

um make you rich or all of these other things. It's for anybody who's dependent on your income. If something happens to you, how do they make life work? Right?

for. Children, spouses.

And term life is so inexpensive. It sounded like some of those rates, you know, it's it's just not expensive at all. And so yeah, if someone's dependent upon your income, make sure you get life insurance. You can go to xander.insure.com and check it out there because that's a great place to get your term life.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Let's

go to Anne in Pittsburgh. Hi Anne,

welcome to the show. Hi.

How are you today? Hi, we are doing well. How can we help?

Well, I hope you can help. That's my question. Is there any hope for our situation?

We have been married 19 years. We're in our 50s. We have one special needs son.

Um we're both self-employed. I have a business from home, which has been very helpful with our son and being home when he gets off the bus, all that kind of stuff. My husband has always controlled 99% of the finances. Um I don't have My

name is not on the bank account. My name I don't have a login.

Our His business and our home bills are combined on the same account, which I know probably should not be that way.

Um we have a home loan of about 243.

If sold, it might be worth 700,000.

Um the big problem I I came to realize

is that our credit cards are 209,000.

Wow. We have a car loan for 21.

And um some of the credit cards are his business only, but as far as I'm aware, you know, in certain states your your debt is your debt and half and half debt debt and assets. So I guess I'm trying to figure out I I can't get through to him. Um he just

blows up when I try to say, "Hey, let's try a budget. Hey, here's all the credit cards on an Excel spreadsheet that shows all the percentages." Like it's just um kind of banging my head on a wall and I don't know how to protect myself, how to protect my son. Um the only good news is that I do have a 401k

that that is in my name from before we were married. And then we also have I have a little bit of savings. And then he does have um a life insurance policy, God forbid anything happens, but um he's he's not well mentally and he's been you know, threatening a lot of things and um I thought I should try and get some advice. Are you thinking about walking away from this?

At this point, I I really can't right

now. I can't right now. My business is here on the property. Um and if I would

leave the other thing is I would be taking my autistic child away from the only home he knows. Mhm. Um that he's had his whole life, his dogs, his everything that's comfort to him. And your husband's not Is he It's I'm guessing

based on what you said.

I think he knows that that he's in the toilet. I think he realizes I mean, he's paying the minimums on the credit cards. That's it.

And where is the where is the revenue of your business going, Anne? What account is that going into?

It's going in with everything else. We I mean, I don't make much.

Last year he I had it written down here. Last year um Hey, do you suspect that there could be IRS debt as well? Cuz when you tell me that all the business bills and all the personal bills and everything's together, that sounds like a mess.

Um I don't. I think he's pretty OCD about keeping track of stuff. Last year's gross income was 233, but then by the time we got to the bottom of the income, the income is 26,000.

Once he takes off depreciation, vehicles, all that kind of stuff.

of business does he have?

Um he's an electrical contractor. So he's making 26,000 a year. He's paying himself 26,000.

Technically, yeah. And it's just him. He doesn't have employees.

And what about you?

I just myself. And what what do you bring in? What's your payment from your business? Um I'm I'm lucky if I bring 10,000 or less. So you guys combined are living

off of 36,000 and you've got the 21,000

in car debt and how much in credit cards? 206?

209. 209. Okay. And is there anything

else that you think might be out there not including the mortgage? Um No. And out of that 209, 40k is his

just for his business, but of course I'm pretty sure I'm liable for that as well.

But everything else. And so is he using these credit cards to keep you guys afloat just month to month? Yes. Yeah.

Yep. And when you said he's not mentally well, what do Do you mind going into a

little bit more detail on that?

there's increased um alcohol.

Um Just um you can tell there's depression.

He's upset. He'll even mention the debt.

He'll mention, "My wife told me that we're this much in debt." And you know, "She must be full of it. I don't believe it." He'll say this in front of his best friend and it's like, "Oh my god, now he's like sharing it with folks." I think he's embarrassed. I think he doesn't know what to do. Yeah, I do too.

Yeah. So I think you know, Anne, it it just sounds like um my first protection is for you. And the fact that you don't have any access to anything, Anne. I mean, there could be there could be a whole other life he's living, right?

I mean, on on on different levels, on different scales, financially, not.

Um because the money is kind of the paper trail to a degree on life and and being able to see that and you have no access to that. Um which is a hard line

I draw. You have to be able to have access and be have everything visual

that you see. I mean, it's one thing if you're like, "Oh my gosh, she's a spender. I'm a saver. I don't know what to do." It's a whole other thing, Anne.

You cross another line into another level of seriousness when you don't have the ability to access your money.

And so so this is a it's it's a it's a

um it's a more serious weight there that I that I hold now in this conversation um

that that creates more ultimatums. And I hear you say like I can't leave, all of that. And but what what I would do is is that there's other ultimatums in this marriage that has to change because you

you don't you're not safe at that point, right? Right. How'd you find out about the 209?

Just curious. Um Did he tell you or you discovered it?

Oh, he did not tell me. I I discovered it. I started going through his files.

Okay. made like the biggest Excel spreadsheet you ever want to see in your life. And I just you know, tried talking to him. And you know, we were okay there for a while. Oh, I'm I'm I'm paying it down.

I'm paying it down. And then, you know, once a year I'd pull these files again and and get everything sorted. And I did it again this year and I said, "This this is He's to the point now where everything is minimums." Yeah, for me this falls into what I what I would call a level of financial abuse and infidelity because he's keeping everything on his side. He's making moves without sharing them with you. And they're at the detriment to you and your family and your son. And I would push

back on the fact that there's nowhere for you to go. There's always an option.

Um but I can guarantee you this, it is not going to be a comfortable option. There's going to be no peace of it that feels comfortable or easy or um Right.

You know what I'm saying? So I do think that you have to give yourself an ultimatum. And you need to say, "All right, what am I going to do? What are my limits? What are my boundaries? And what is my time frame for me to and what

what is an indicator that this is

moving forward or that it's staying the same? Like Does that make sense? You have to have something very real and very measurable for this situation."

Yeah. Right. Right.

So whether that's whether that's I'm going to offer counseling and I'm going to give him 60 days to agree to it or I'm going to

ask him for these account passwords and I'm going to ask him for, you know, complete transparency and I'm going to give him 45 days to to wrestle with that and get to that point. You've just got to make it very clear, write it down on paper. If you have a friend, get a friend. If you have a pastor, find a pastor, but you need somebody who knows.

Does anybody else know this is going on besides us two girls on the radio?

Yes. Yeah, a few a few friends, close friends and family members. And what are they suggesting? What are they saying since they know the situation even more?

Um and they know him and and they know he's not he's not right. He's Yeah. You know, I'm married to a 37-year-old man who was set in his ways and unfortunately he is a collector. He

and that's where the money has gone. He collects things and um to the point I said, "Can we sell some stuff?" You know, So, is he hoarding, too? Like are you in that sort of a situation?

No. Okay. No, it's just enormous collections of things that are really our only hope. This These assets that could help us get out from under this, but um he's not willing to touch the I'm not selling any of my stuff, he says. Like, oh, that's great cuz years ago he did. He would sell his stamp collection or he would sell some other collection. just seeing a deterioration.

So, Anne, I would I would I would bring in a third party in that and and again and it's it's so hard to say this on this side of the desk cuz now and we you know, we have to go, but you're going to be living this life, but not only is it a secret, but you're also behind. You're trying to live on $34,000 a year as well. So, there's there's two ends of this that are really urgent. So, I'm so sorry.

Um I hope this was helpful to give him some ultimatums. Um but I so so appreciate the call.

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## 284. Your Payments Are Keeping You From the Life You Want | May 22, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the from the

Ramsey Network in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade War. Next to me, George Camel, taking your calls uh really for the next 3 hours. Triple825-5225

is what will get you on the line. And we hope that you do choose to call in cuz we'd love to hear from you. All right, George, you ready to do this? came on.

>> James is in Riverside, California.

James, you are on the line. How can we help today? >> Hello. I was calling in. I watch you guys' show a lot. I watched George's YouTube channel. I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to pay off payday loans.

>> Oo. >> I have 10 altogether.

>> That's a monster. My goodness. How >> I've seen I've seen someone call in about them, but never this many.

>> Wow. Um, how how did you Let me just ask. How did you get in a situation where you were needing to go to these places 10 different times?

>> I had some car troubles a couple maybe a little over two years ago and I needed to pay rent. So there was one down the street from me. So I seen it and I walked in there and to get to try to get a loan and they gave me that >> man. >> And then it spiraled into getting behind

again. So I got end up getting another one then another one. But altogether it's four four payday loans where I walk

into a store and do it and then I got stuck with the ones on the apps on the phone. So I got six of those.

>> Have you deleted these apps? Like I know you're still paying on them, but I'm scared you're going to go get an 11th one. >> That's right. Yeah.

No, I got Yeah, me too. I got all the ones I could possibly get. So, for listeners listening, we hate payday loans because number one, most people they're borrowing somewhere from $100 to $1,000, right? These are small loans, but they're usually due in a very short period of time.

Sometimes they're due in two weeks, sometimes they're due in four weeks. But the main kicker >> by the next payday, that's where they get the name. >> The main kicker is, guys, the the the interest rate, the APR on these is anywhere between 300 and 600% many times. >> But they don't know that cuz it's just a fee.

Oh, it's a $45 fee. Yes. To get this small loan. And when you actually factor in what that's costing you, >> Yeah.

>> no one can get out because the loan >> grows. It just grows. >> And by the next payday, you don't have enough to cover it. So, you go take out another one, right?

To try. It's just whack-a-ole. And so, that's where James has found found himself. >> You borrow $500, you add the $75 fee, and now you owe $575.

Like, that's bananas. So, James, how much do yours total? Do you fall in line with this or tell me what yours are?

>> I'd love that. >> The four the four that I go to in store, they let you borrow maximum 255, but I have to pay them back 300. So, every two weeks I got to pay that. So, that's about 190 every two weeks. So, almost 400 just on those two a month.

>> Wow. >> And then the phones, the phone ones I

>> Let me see. I got it written down. The phone ones are just different numbers. The the smallest one is 100 and I pay $5 in

interest for that every two weeks.

>> And then the next one is

300 and I pay $13 in interest.

>> Next one is 350. I pay $1050 in

interest. >> The next one is 240 and I pay 35 in

interest. And then the next one is 250

and I paid 19 in interest.

>> Oh my goodness. That is >> So what's the total balances of all these 10 payday loans >> if I would pay them all off today?

>> Yeah, >> the four are 1,200 and then the other

are 12

1350. So >> okay, about 2500 bucks would clear these. Yeah, it's about 2500.

>> And do you have any money in the bank right now? >> I don't. I tried to like listen to your guys's steps like save up a thousand. I tried that twice. I think this is such high interest. I should pay these off.

But like I saved up a thousand twice and end up emergency come up. So I would use that.

>> I think James that the baby step is not the issue. I think it's your income that's the issue because obviously not having the money for car repairs, whatever is going on with with the vehicle is what caused you to get into this mess in the first place. And that's also the thing that's holding you back from getting the $1,000 saved and being able to hold on to it. So I I'm hearing two issues.

I'm hearing a cash flow issue, so an income issue, and I'm also hearing a lack of financial planning issue, which sounds like a budgeting issue. So let's talk about those two things. Do you have a budget?

>> I make about a little over 4,000 a month. >> And is it just you?

>> I have a girlfriend also and two kids.

>> Okay. Girlfriend and two kids. And you guys are all living together. It's one household. >> Yeah. Apartment. >> Okay. Uh is she contributing financially or no? >> Yeah. She goes, she basically covers all the like the lights, gas, food, and she

goes half with the rent with me.

>> So why is I cover? >> Why is there a huge issue? Because if I'm hearing somebody who is in a shared financial situation, you've got 4,000 a month, you're splitting rent, she's covering all the basic utilities. Where's your money going? Tell us tell us more. Tell us about all your other debt. >> B um no other I just have one credit card I pay every month. I have storage,

phone bill. Then another big problem I was going to bring up next is I have a car loan >> that I'm underwater in. >> How much? >> And I'm also behind on >> Do you still own that car?

>> Yeah, I still have it. I'm about 12,000 underwater. >> What's it worth?

>> It's worth about 8,000.

>> Okay. So, you owe 10 and a half. 20.

>> Yeah, I owe about 19.

>> 19. And what's the payment on that?

>> Payment's 530.

>> Yeah, that's messing with you.

>> And um I just realized just about a month ago, that's why I gave you guys a call also that I was behind a lot and I

didn't know that the it's like a big fee of interest when you're late also on top of the other interest. So it was basically like a little over 150 and late fees every month occurring.

>> Mhm. What about your rent? What are you guys paying in rent? cuz still I'm wondering where this money is going.

>> It's 1,800.

>> That's your half or that's the full amount? >> That's the full rent. >> Okay. So, yeah, we've definitely got to find out where your money's being spent.

So, second question, do you have a budget? I'm guessing no.

>> I tried the budget with the app, but it's just so confusing with all these other fees and other stuff.

>> Okay. So, what I want you to do, I want you to give it another shot because I think you just need a little help tweaking it. When it comes to the fees and everything, just plug in the minimum payments. That's all you need to do.

There's a section you list all of them out. It'll ask you what the minimum payment is that you pay. Just fill that in. And then from there, we can figure out how much margin you actually have cuz I think that you have more than you think you have.

And then we can see a full number because the way we want you to tackle this is with the debt snowball, which means you're only paying minimum payments on everything. And then smallest to largest, we're taking the very smallest debt and all of our extra money goes on the smallest debt.

you're just going to have some stupid tax that you're going to feel in way of interest. But the key here, James, is you need to throw more money at it than the balance is acrewing, which means you need to get aggressive. That ne next paycheck needs to go mostly towards these debts so you can stop playing the shell game and whack-a-ole. That's the only way out is you got to be more aggressive than they are. And then, you know, never touch this hot stove again.

Delete these apps. Never walk into one of those stores. You drive by and say, "That's a past version of James. Never again." >> And you're probably going to need to pick up a couple of side hustles. You're going to have to work extra to get this done quickly.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Jeb who's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey Jeb, you're on the line. How can George and I help out?

Um, my question is I'm 24 years old and I am fixing to get married in November

and I make 35,000 a year and I was

wondering how can I like make a good budget and how can I be um and I only

debt I have is to my house payment and what's a good way to stay on top of that where I ain't living paycheck to paycheck. >> Yeah, absolutely. I love that you're thinking ahead. I love that you have no consumer debt. What about the lady in waiting? is how how do her finances look? >> She don't have no debt either.

>> Okay, great. And does she work?

>> She does. She's she works.

>> What What does she make?

>> Uh right now she works. She probably makes in a month. She right now at her job, but she's going to be switching jobs. Right now at the job she's at right now, she probably makes $800 a month. >> Okay. And what does she do and what will she be doing? You said she's switching jobs. She when she switched jobs, she's going to be working at a coffee shop.

>> Okay. I mean, she's making like less than minimum wage right now if she's working full-time. So, that part scares me. >> Oh, no. No, she ain't working. She's part-time working right now. Oh, >> okay. Got it. >> And once she's working full-time, what will she be doing?

>> She'll be working at a coffee shop. And they told her with her experience is that that she'll be probably making around 16 to $20 an hour at the coffee shop. >> Okay, great. That's closer to 40 grand a year. Wonderful. And what are you doing for work?

>> I am I am a part-time uh little carrier

for the post office. I got two more years before I can go full-time.

>> Two more years. Okay. And then then you'll be making what? 70.

>> Right around 70. And then as the years keep going, making a little bit more and more and more as the the time goes on.

>> Okay. That's good. I love that. All right. So, the key here is to stay out

of debt and to continue to build wealth in the process. So, you're probably familiar that we teach a plan that's called the baby steps. And there's seven of them. And the idea is to get your throughout the seven baby steps to get your money working for you to build wealth so that you can live like no one else and and be generous and all of these things. Correct. So, you guys are partially there because you don't have any consumer debt. The question is, do you have any money saved

>> right now? I'm trying. So, I wasn't being in debt. Like my I'll tell you the story quick. The house was um given to

me. It was my grandma when she passed away. She gave it to me. And then my parents said, "You know what? Y'all starting out new, but y'all won't be in debt. We'll go in there and we'll remodel the house for y'all. Y'all just pay us back for they not we don't have to pay the whole loan back to them. We only got to pay for 10 years. A,000 a month. $1,000 a month for 10 years. And

is there any way that you can pay that

off early? Are they open to you basically doing the calculation on that and saying we want to get out of this early?

>> I mean, I can if I you know what I mean?

Like if we can afford it, I would love to pay pay it off quicker as I can.

>> Okay. And that would be my goal. Do you guys love the house? Do you plan on staying there for a while? >> Oh, yeah. >> And you're saying there's no mortgage.

It's paid off, but you basically have $120,000 loan attached to it to family

>> to Yes. Well, yeah. Yeah. To the family thing. Yes. >> Okay. At a,000 bucks a month. So, the goal would be instead of waiting 10 years for that to get paid off through the minimum payment of a,000 bucks, can we throw 2,000 at it? 3,000 at it and get this thing done even faster?

>> Yes. >> Because Thanksgiving is going to be awkward. I'll tell you that much. Cuz they're going to see you guys on the honeymoon going on vacation. And if you go, "Hey, money's tight this month.

Can't pay the thousand." Or, "Man, it's been nine years. We need the money now." Because they might have a health problem or want to retire. And go, "Man, we're kind of regretting making this 10-year loan drag out." And >> and just to be clear, they are willing to hand over the deed once you've paid it. It's not just uh >> we're talking here like they're actually going to give you the deed.

>> No, no. This what they said. This is the deal.

>> Okay. Is any of this in writing?

>> Yes. >> The question I have though, okay, so when the house is in your name, what's the actual mortgage payment, not what they're charging you, what's the actual payment?

>> I still would be paying the,000.

>> I understand. You're saying it's paid off >> until I get it paid off. But they would have the house in my name. It would be just like the house will be in my name and I'll just keep paying them the thousand. >> Right. But the clarity that I want is is there an actual mortgage on the house or are they just charging you that money?

>> No, no, no. There's no mortgage date. My daddy just retired and he took the money out of his retirement to redo the house.

>> That's kind of scary. How much does he have in retirement? >> Yep.

over 300,000.

>> Okay. >> That's a pretty big chunk to take out for the these renovations.

>> No, no, no. I take like over He has over a million in retirement. >> Oh, okay. >> So, he's fine. Okay. So, so back to you and your fiance. I I love this for you.

I think it's very generous that they're doing that. Uh and so, like I said, the

goal is to continue to live that debtree lifestyle. I want to make sure you have savings today. Do you and your fiance uh

when you guys get no married in November, if you combine your savings together, how much money will that be?

>> I Let's see if I combined it cuz I'll

tell you this. I got I got a savings account out of out of mind. I just opened up this past month. $250 is going into a pay period.

>> Perfect. Okay, great. So, the goal for you guys is to save up six months of expenses. So, in your budget, which we're going to gift you every dollar for your wedding present, I want you to look at your month and say, "What does it cost to make our month go? Does it take $3,000?" Okay, let's multiply that by six. We need $18,000 to make this thing go. Lock that in. Put it in a high yield savings account somewhere that it's liquid, but that it's not with your normal month-to-month checking account.

And that's going to be your 3 to 6 months. That's baby step three. And then once that's done, you guys can start investing. Baby step four, you can put 15% of the amount that you make before

taxes. I want 15% of that to go to retirement. And if you have a 401k through the post office, you want it to go into your your employee sponsored account. So your 401k, if you don't have that, you can put it into a a Roth IRA and do that.

And I want your wife uh to do the same thing. And even now, as she's your fiance, I want her to start doing that uh if she's to that point already. So now you're investing, now you're starting the process of building the wealth. And then from there on, you can continue the baby steps.

Baby step five, obviously you're putting away for kids college. And then baby step six, which you guys are going to be at real fast.

I tell you this, I did I talked to one of y'all smart flow people and I am I just I'm in the process of open up a Roth IRA and a brokerage account.

>> Good for you. >> Good for you. >> Smart investor pro. That's fantastic that you connected with one.

And I wouldn't here's the thing. I wouldn't put money into that until you have that emergency fund. >> That's right. And that might not be until the wedding cuz what happens is you go invest all this money and now you don't have any and the HVAC goes out in this house and you're on the hook and now you're trying to go 10 grand into debt to cover the new HVAC.

It is your never go into debt again insurance plan.

>> So you guys >> that's why I um open up I opened up the savings account was just to so out of out of mind. I'm not going to touch that money unless I need it like an emergency. >> Yeah. break in case of emergency.

And that means it's unexpected and it's necessary. >> That's right. And you guys should aim for, if I were you, somewhere between 15 18,000 is probably a really good number for you. Uh, again, I wouldn't combine finances until you guys are married in November.

But you should be having these conversations and you should be talking about it. You should have full transparency into what she's doing financially and and vice versa until you do get married. And then everything is combined together. one checking account, uh, one high yield savings account.

You can add her as the beneficiary on your 401k.

And that way, everything is all together. And listen, I'm pulling for you guys. This is this is exciting. I think that you're in a really, really good position. You've got a, you know, an uptick on your careers. You're in a good place with the home.

Congratulations. >> Yeah. If you can learn to live off of your 35 grand, when you make 70 and you keep living like this, oh yeah, >> you're going to be stacking some cash and building some serious wealth.

Multi-millionaires is what you'll be. I just crunched the numbers for you. Even at 67,000 household income, if you invest 15% of that from 24 to 64, you're looking at over 5 million bucks.

>> Wow. >> So, it's simple. And that's if you guys never get a raise, you don't both grow in your careers, which is highly unlikely. >> That's right.

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Erica is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Erica, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I am a single female living in Philadelphia. Um, I'm a pharmacist. Um,

and I graduated with a ton of student loan debt. So, at this point, I am

wondering how I can get this amount down

or if I should invest instead to offset

the uh the compound interest on it. So, I guess my question is, do I pay down the student loan debt or do I put more in investment? Okay. How much debt are we talking about? Not that it changes my answer. I just want to know.

>> Yeah. Student loan debt is right around 192,000. >> 192. And what's your income now that you're a pharmacist?

>> Um, currently um uh post taxes I make

57.82 per month.

>> Okay. Do you happen to know what the interest rate is on those student loans?

Uh ballpark if it's not the same for all of them? Yeah, it's 3.1%.

>> Okay. Okay. So, to your question,

offsetting the compound interest, the best way to offset the interest is to pay more than the minimum payment to throw as much as you can at it to knock down that principal because 3% of 100,000 is a whole lot less than 192,000. So, the faster you knock these debts out, the less interest you're going to pay. And that's a guaranteed rate of return that 3 point, you know, 2%. Versus investing it with market

volatility. You could lose money one month, make a little one month, but you're much better off knocking out all these debts because your life is on hold until you repay these lenders. It's going to be really hard to do all the things you want to do in life. Get married, get a house, have kids, whatever it is, go on vacations when you have all these payments stacked up every month. What what are the minimum payments currently due for that 192 grand?

>> Um, currently it's sitting at,300 per

month. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a high payment. I I I tend to agree with George on this. uh for similar reasons, but also I would just add on, you know, I think that

there's you're not the only one who feels that way, who thinks, hey, I could just pay the minimums and anything extra I can invest that money and I'll feel great because I'll have $300,000 sitting in investments or I'll have half a million dollar. But you also have to consider that if you did that for a five or 10 year span, that student loan is still acrewing. And even if you did invest and even if you did have $300,000 sitting there, that's your money.

know, 270,000, 275,000.

And you have to ask yourself, oh my gosh, that's not going to feel like the freedom that I thought it would feel like. And I I I've painted this picture before, but I it helped me and my husband when we had 90,000 left and the payment wasn't very high and we thought, you know what, we don't need to pay this off. We can just we can live with this.

But it feels like it's like what I liken it to is being inside of a beautiful home. The home is beautiful. It's everything you wanted. As long as you're in there, everything is great. But the minute you open the door, you realize you are right at the edge of a cliff.

And it's like a California cliff at the ed, you know, if the house falls off, you are just tumbling into the abyss.

And that's the way it feels on the inside is I still have this debt attached to me. And you know what I'm talking about. I mean, you feel it every time when you lay in the bed at night.

So that's kind of, >> you know, a more emotional take on it.

And I think it's worth it because, you know, our our body does keep the score in these in these situations.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I I think maybe the only issue that I find because I do have

my own budget is what's left over after all of my expenses. So that and what makes it even tougher is being single and not living with somebody being the the only person um contributing to rent

and in big city and I I I did at one

point make very large payments and it

helped a lot >> and then you know switching to different jobs moving to a different city um being

single again cuz I used to be married >> it just makes it a lot harder. Yeah.

>> So, this this is the tough part is that like we're trying to look for that extra

income to be able to put there because all I'm doing right now is surviving.

>> Well, what does the trajectory for you look like as a pharmacist? Cuz if you're bringing home, you know, what is it 69 grand a year? That's probably around 100 grand gross in a high cost of living area. So, how do we get you to be making

150 as a pharmacist? Because that would really speed this up.

>> Absolutely. So, right now, um that's kind of what I'm looking towards. It's the market within pharmacy is a little tough and um but I do have um some

future plans on finding a job that probably the market in Philadelphia is right around I would probably say about

140. Um that really so that would be as

a pharmacist like a good salary that you

can make. Now I I'm looking for other options too that can help me make more because right now what I'm making is not just is not enough.

>> So I guess maybe that's the answer.

>> Well, at this rate what it's you're just feeling hopeless because making these minimum payments it's going to take you a lifetime to pay the student loans off.

And until you can throw, you know, three grand a month at the debts, four grand a month, it's not going to feel like there's any, you know, hope in sight or light at the end of this tunnel. But I'm doing the math here going, "All right, if you can throw 3,200 of these debts every month, you're done in five years." And that's if you don't get a raise.

Now, that's tough. Obviously, you're in a high-cost living city. What is your rent every month?

>> Um, currently it's right around 15 or,600 a month.

>> Okay. Could you get a twobedroom and

rent with a friend, get a roommate?

So next year I'm planning on um renting

from my friend who owns a home in Philly and and it will be with a roommate. So

I'm this that 15600 is is one bedroom,

one bath.

>> So what would your rent go down to?

>> Um I'm not sure. She would probably work with me. I would say she would probably help me get to like maybe 1,400.

>> Oh, that's not much savings.

I was hoping you were going to say like a thousand bucks or something like all right we saved 500 bucks a month this is worth it >> well when you pass it along through utilities and maybe food I don't know how much you would share there might be something there if you guys you know >> but if you could get a twobedroom for two grand a month well now you're splitting at a thousand bucks I'm trying to go through so there's two ways to get more margin to get rid of this debt faster and that's to you make more or spend less and so those are the two areas the two levers I want you to start looking at is do a detailed budget using every dollar and I'll gift that to you to help you get through this and go look at all of your expenses cuz right now you feel like you need to live like a pharmacist.

You want people to know, look at me, I I'm doing pretty good. And the problem is that's going to cause lifestyle creep. You're going to eat out more, go out more, have nicer things, dress nicer, and right now we need to live like a broke college student because we got a mess to clean up. >> Absolutely.

>> The good news is >> Oh, I don't have any problem with eating ramen. So, we're good. >> Good. The good news is, you know, your rent right now is really right at the the 25% mark.

your minimum payments, you're at 28 uh $100 a month. Where's the rest of that money going? What's your next biggest expense that you go, you know, here's the problem, guys? It's my car payment.

Is there anything else that we could try to help you find that margin? Do you have a a car payment to speak of?

>> I do have a car payment. It's not much.

And it's um there I I owe 1,898

less on it and about 385 per month.

>> Okay. Well, that's some margin freed up.

Is there anything else? Because I still feel like there's a big chunk of money that's not accounted for by all the major players. You didn't mention kids or daycare or anything like that.

>> Uh let me see. I have a budget. Um there

is I mean not really. Those are really

it just goes to essentially rent, car,

>> um I have a lot of I put a lot of money

away and in uh retirement.

>> Okay, there's where it is. I knew it was somewhere. So again, I love this conversation because you're you're wanting to do the right things, you're just doing them in the wrong order. So I love a person who wants to build wealth.

I love a person you're very responsible because that's a responsible choice. But George and I would caution you that there's a better order to do this in because if you're investing but you're still in debt, you know, obviously it's it's taking away your peace. We talked about that. And obviously you probably don't have much liquid savings and so therefore your retirement is at risk.

The next time you're in a jam, you might liquidate that, which is terrible. So George and I would say you need to pause investments. It's only temporary. It's not a scary thing, but you need the full force of your income to do what George said, which is be putting hopefully around $3,000 a month on these student loans to get them paid off. Please, please, please cancel and and and pause those retirement contributions.

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All right, George, let's hear from Tabitha, who's right here in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Tabitha. What's up?

Hey, so I recently paid off my student loans and I'm finally on the straight and narrow, right? Awesome. Um I called the credit union and I opened up a high yield well it's a checking but it has a higher yield than the high yield savings. So anyhow, um, and I asked them

like, you know, cuz I want a plan to be able to put money down and I was thinking about the manual underwriting because other than that, I have one credit card, but I don't use it. So, I'm fixing to have it just cut off basically. >> Um, and they they acted like that was crazy. >> So, I guess I got the weird thing um for the first time, but I'm wondering like am I asking like is there questions I'm supposed to ask?

Is there a different way to go about it? because they were like, "No, you need credit. Like, you don't need to turn that off. Like, even if you don't use it, your credit score will still be there and we'll be able to use it and it should if everything's paid off and it should go up." And I'm like, "Um, I don't know that." >> Well, just to for the person listening, manual underwriting is the way that you get approved for a mortgage if you don't have a credit score.

>> Not if you have a low score.

So that's the key Tabitha is once you're completely debtree all the accounts are closed it may take 6 to 12 months for your credit score to become indeterminable and at that point then you can do manual underwriting. So I don't know when you're going to be ready to actually go home shopping. Are we talking 3 years from now?

>> Um probably like a little over a year um based on the amount that I'm going to have to save to get to the 25% mark.

>> Okay, cool. So you do you have an emergency fund yet? I know you said your student loans, your loans are paid off.

>> No, I'm finishing that up hopefully within the next 6 months and then after that I'll start on the >> on the down payment savings fund. Okay, cool. So, here's the deal. A lot of people don't know what manual underwriting is because they were so ingrained in the broken financial system

we find ourselves in. But the truth is, credit scores have not been around that long. We're talking like since the 90s.

And before that, what lenders did was look at things like your income. So, they'd verify your income, look at your rental payment history, they'd look at, you know, 12-month history of your bank statements, they would look at trade lines like utility bills or cell phone bills to determine whether or not they will grant this loan to you. So, that's exactly what manual underwriting does, and you just looked in the wrong place.

So, I would reach out to Church Hill Mortgage. You can go to churchillmortgage.com and um talk to them about it. They're the the number one in the nation because we send all the Ramsay fans to them. So, they won't look at you like you're crazy.

They'll go, "Oh, absolutely. We can help with that." And they'll answer all of your questions and steer you in the right direction when it comes to what you need to do to get prepared for that. Cuz there are some steps. There's a few hoops to jump through, but I've done it.

It's not It's not as difficult as people make it out to be. >> No, it's not bad. So, for a few more specifics, if you're thinking about that, uh you need to be able to show 12 months of documented rental history. So, if you're listening out there and you're living with mom and dad and not paying rent, thinking you're going to buy a house and do manual underwriting, you need to pay rent.

You need to have some sort of documented rental payment history. You need to have 12 months of other trade lines. These are things like George mentioned, cell phones, utilities. You could even use insurance payments for that.

Also, uh actual money. Okay? So, they're going to want to see that you have uh income for the last 12 months. If you're self-employed, they might look back two years.

That's important. And then, obviously, you want a nice down payment.

Um, and that's really all there is to it. It's really not that big of a deal.

Um, the only other part of this is just making sure you're in the right position. And Tabitha, it sounds like you're on the right track. Finishing up that debt, saving up the 3 to 6 months, and then getting on uh to that down payment. Very, very good call. Thank you for the call. All right, let's keep it rolling. George, we got Madison in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Madison.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Yes, ma'am. What's going on?

>> Um, so my husband and I just got married in January, and we started out at around

close to $100,000 in debt. We're now at around 38,000, >> but we are expecting a baby in November.

So, my question, I know you guys say usually to pause if you're expecting, um, but how much do you think is a good amount to have to be prepared?

>> I love that question. So, yeah, you're exactly right. We call that uh stork mode, which is kind of funny, but it's just the idea of the most important thing in your world right now is being prepared for this baby, not paying off debt. Uh and so yeah, pausing is good.

I'm thinking about two things. Number one, I'm going to save as much as I possibly can, whatever money I can, cuz the truth is if it weren't STO mode, you'd still be doing that. The money would just be going towards debt. So yeah, let's keep up that same intensity because the fact of the matter is when the baby comes and you guys get home and everybody's healthy, you're going to take that money and you're going to throw it towards the debt.

So the more the marrier. Uh but I would have a couple of thoughts in mind to go along with that. Number one, George, I'm always looking at the out-of pocket max on my insurance. I want to know which part you're on the hook for.

>> Yep. I want to know that if things go south and, you know, we end up having more, >> what is it? Is is it 10,000? Is it 12250?

Like whatever it is, I want that money, that amount saved.

And so once you and baby are home safe, you might have 30 grand ready to throw at the debt while you've been making these minimum payments. So, how much could you save by the time baby's here?

>> That's a good question. I feel like we kind of got uh like a good head start because we were able to get rid of a car and then we had wedding money. But I

would say we could probably save close to 10 maybe 15,000 before the baby gets here. >> Okay. So if you made minimum payments on the debts and then through the rested savings 15k by November is what you're thinking. >> Sure. The only other thing is that I know we should not have done this but we borrowed some money from a family member. So, we we do want to pay that for sure before the baby gets here, but I think we could get through that pretty quickly. >> How much is it? >> So, $5,500.

>> That's a significant chunk of of 10 to 15,000.

>> Yeah. I mean, I wasn't We should be able to have that this month or next month.

Um >> Oh, so that's aside from this.

>> Still get I think that we could still get to at least 10,000 before the baby gets here. >> Okay. What's your household income?

Uh 105.

>> All right. And are you planning on going back to work after or are you going to stay home? >> I I do plan to go back. Yeah.

>> Okay, cool. And what what's left in 38K?

What kind of debts are those?

>> Um I have 13,000 on my car, 9,000 in

student loans, the on the the uh 5,500

to my dad, and the rest is credit cards.

>> Okay. Now, the the bigger question is, are you guys done with debt? Are you changing the behavior that got you here?

Like, have you cut up the credit cards?

>> Yeah, we're we're absolutely done.

>> Good. Love to hear that. Well, you're on your way. I'd be focused on just making sure you you and baby are healthy and the debt will get paid. And I hope it's done. I mean, it'd be pretty cool if you guys went real crazy and got it done early next year >> before that baby's first birthday.

>> For sure. >> That's the plan. As soon as possible.

We've been doing pet sitting and as like staying at different houses, which we don't want to do that anymore because it's hard to be newly wed and away from each other, but um trying to do whatever we can to to get through it.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the mentality that you have to have when you're attacking debt. George, it's you're going to feel a level of discomfort. And if you're trying to do the things that we teach and trying to keep it, you know, life is the same.

Nothing really changes. I don't really feel it. You're not going you're not doing it right. >> Yeah. You need to go hard enough that you never want to go back into debt because you sacrifice so deep. Yes.

>> And for me it was like lean cuisines.

That was my debtree journey food. And I would wait for them. >> I'd go to Kroger, I'd wait for them to be on sale five for $10.

>> I remember that sale. >> $2. I was like, "All right, if I can eat for $2 a meal." I mean, I looked, if you open my fridge, there was nothing in it.

You open my freezer, just a stack of lean cuisines, 20 high.

>> All I think about is the microplastics in today's world. They're going to study my body for science one day.

>> Your brain is like really made of plastic. >> What happened to him? And so now I can't even pass by the Lean Cuisines in the grocery store. >> Oh, he's like >> like it just brings me back. I I feel a little vile. No, thank you. Not doing that again. But that's caused me to not go into debt. >> I know. That's right. Whatever you have to do >> cuz I'm not going back to that Lean Cuisine lifestyle.

>> Who cares? Who cares if you were in the best shape ever? >> I'll keep my Lean physique in other ways. What a great name though. Lean Cuisine. >> You got to admit. >> Yeah. Got to have >> Did you have a debtree food? Now you're a foodie and you you eat super clean.

You wouldn't darken the door of a Lean Cuisine. >> I wouldn't darken the door of a Lean Cuisine. I I think for me the biggest thing is I don't don't ask me about a coupon. Don't ask me to do something to get money off.

Right. Like I did enough couponing that I don't want anymore. I a lot PTSD. >> Yeah.

Even you'll say you'll say, "Oh, you should do that app.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. This is George next to me taking your calls. And we've got Jacob who's on the line in Richmond, Virginia. Jacob, what's going on in your world?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Um, I was calling about I've been considering going to college um and to

kind of get a job that I'm more wired for. Um, I've taken the Ken like assessment test and the hard decision

about it is just that I'm in a career now that pays pretty solid considering I don't have a degree, but it's just not the most fulfilling.

>> What kind of work is it that you're doing now and what are you earning?

>> Yeah. Um, it's a lot of just kind of desk work at a computer desk for um like

a labor company. Um, I make about 55.

>> Okay. And what is it that you want to do and what would be a a fair salary that you think you'd make doing that?

>> Yeah. Um I I've kind of more in line to

like want to kind of counsel people or speak with them and like kind of leave an impact. Um from my research what I

can expect if I get like a degree with it would be about 60 to 65 is the average for where I'm at. >> Okay. I'm confused. Are you talking about being like a therapist?

Um, so with the assessment test I did, some of the options, one I saw that I liked was like a school counselor was an option. >> And have you looked into what it actually takes to become a school counselor?

>> Yeah. Um, so on that assessment, it shows that a master degree would be needed along with some licensing, which

the the part that's hard for me is like I I'm don't mind doing that, but I feel like it's kind of maybe unwise to maybe do this to uh like change while I'm in the process of baby step number two.

>> Oh, okay. So, >> yeah, >> baby step two, for those listening, that's the step where you're paying off your consumer debt. How much consumer debt do you have? At this current moment, I have about 11,000. I started at 20 like last year.

>> Okay. So, you've been making headway on that. And is it just you, Jacob, or do you have a family, wife?

>> I actually just got married in March. I came down and visited y'all went on my honeymoon. >> Wow. We probably told you to go have fun

and get out of here.

>> George George made a joke about it.

Yeah. >> That it's sad that this You're like, "Oh, what are you doing for your honeymoon?" They're like, "We're here." I'm like, "Okay, what else?" Yeah. No, that's great. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> So, is your now wife working outside the home?

>> Um, yeah. She she's a nurse. Well, she's a nurse tech at uh hospital.

>> Okay. And what does she make?

>> Um, I think right now she's like about 30 a year. She's like hourly like 18 to 19. >> Nurse tech. Okay. Okay.

>> And that should be closer to like 40 grand gross per year, which puts you guys close to a six figure salary. Does she have any debt?

>> Um, no. No. All of her schools been paid for so far, but we might have to pay for it in the future. >> Have you guys combined finances?

>> Yes, completely. >> Okay. Cuz I'm wondering how can we here here's my goal for you. How do we do this thing? Cuz I want you to pursue this dream of being a school counselor, but we want to do it smart and we want to do it debtree.

>> And so, exactly. What I would recommend is knocking out this debt really fast.

And the why behind it is I got this dream on the other side that I want to get to. And that's going to put some fire under this to go, you know what, we make a hundred grand. We're bringing home, you know, seven grand a month, whatever it is. Can we throw three grand a month of this debt be done in 3 months or four grand a month and go hard at this thing?

Cuz now, three months from now, now we can work on the emergency fund. Do you guys have savings right now?

outside of that, we're just in intense with paying off debt. >> Okay, good. So, I would set an aggressive goal to pay off the debt, an aggressive goal to get through your baby step three, your full emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. And at that point, now you can begin investing and cash flowing this school dream. And so, that's where you need to get clear on what is the most affordable school I can go to to get the the degree required.

>> Yeah. not the fanciest school, just what is the most affordable school to check the box and say, "Yep, I have this degree." Because you need to go undergrad into grad

>> potentially for that. I'm not necessarily saying that's the exact career it has to be. I just know for a fact I'd probably be more fulfilled. Um,

but yeah, it's just been difficult cuz I'm not sure if it is unwise or kind of selfish to do a step like that.

>> Well, you do have to consider the return on investment. You have to consider a couple things. Number one, we're not going into debt for it. So, just for the master's side of it, I mean, a lot of people would borrow anywhere between 60 to 120,000 to be able to do what it is that you want to do, but then you're coming away with a degree making 55 to 75, right?

Um, so you have to think through that. The time frame, I think, gives you some time that you could cash flow it. I mean, people do these programs in 2 to 3 years. So, I think that that gives you some time that if you started with a chunk of money, right, as to to start out with, it's like, okay, I I work a semester and during that semester, I'm saving up for the next semester.

I think you could cash flow it in that way. And that's the only way that I would suggest it.

>> yeah, I would just do some really deep dives into how uh I hate the word cheap, but how inexpensive you can get this degree. Is it an online option? Are there things that you can do to mitigate that cost at all?

>> Yeah, that makes sense. >> And you'll have to think through, can you do this, go to school full-time while your wife carries the load of income for the family? So, that's another piece of the puzzle to figure out, well, you need to work part-time and this just takes longer and you're doing school at night, for example. So, that would be a conversation I would start to have with your wife about what this actually looks like in reality versus I just have this dream and I hate this job, so I'm just going to leave.

and at all costs I'm going to go do it.

You want to be smart about it and move slowly with peace so that you don't have a pile of debt on the other side.

>> And does does your wife does she plan on moving up to being a a registered nurse

or is she going to keep teching? Like what's she going to do?

>> Yeah, I think she wants to continue moving up in that kind of uh career tree. Um she has about two more years before she can be considered like an official nurse. >> Okay. >> And we can probably expect about another 10K for her schooling.

And now that we're married, she probably won't get as much financial aid. >> Okay. >> Right. Okay.

So, if her career trajectory has a higher ceiling right now, I might have her pursue school first. Like, hey, you go first, you go make, you know, 80 grand a year as a nurse so that we have the freedom, flexibility for me to go pursue this over here. So, there there is kind of a give and take here.

>> Mhm. Yeah, definitely.

>> So, it might take longer than you want it to, but I believe this is it's not a selfish thing to go do work that you're wired to do that does give you fulfillment.

>> Okay, I appreciate that.

>> Yeah, thanks for the call. You know, a lot of times, George, we we take these calls and we're talking about dollars and cents and income and all these things, but the truth is this is the job that you're going to be going into day in day out, spending the majority of your life there, 8 10 hours a day.

You're commuting there. You're giving up time from your your children and your family there. It matters. Like, you have to feel good about the work that you're doing.

You have to feel like you're making a difference. It has to feel worth it to you. So conversations like this, I I love them because I'm all about getting people to that like I everybody wants to feel good about the work that they're doing and the time that they're spending doing it. >> Well, Anna, I always recommend go meet with some school counselors.

>> True. That >> do they enjoy it? What are the pitfalls?

What are the things that they love about the job? >> What are things to look out for as you pursue this career field or what school you work at? All of that matters. And you don't want to show up and go, "Wow, this is not what I thought it would be." >> Uhhuh. I sunk all this money.

>> You now you're Ross from friends. >> Pivot. Pivot.

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All right, back to the phone lines.

Simon is in San Diego, California.

What's up, Simon?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, first of all, really awesome to be talking to Jay and George, longtime listener of the show. Uh, second of all,

I am uh debating on getting a heliloc

to pay for one, clear up some MX debt that my wife and I have, two, buy a new

vehicle. >> Wait, is this a prank call, dude?

>> No. You said longtime listener and then you mentioned three things that we are vehemently against.

>> Or did you just wait till Dave wasn't here? >> I I totally get that. I was going to be like I kind of sound a little bit silly.

Longtime listener, I know you guys don't like going into debt. >> So the goal of all this is to buy a new car.

>> Um well MX is a big one as well. Um but

yeah, we need a new vehicle. Um, our last one, the one that we currently have is on the Fritz and um, yeah, that's a primary concern

right now with me and my wife is getting a new car. >> Okay, so let's kind of pan back here because if you're doing all of this rigomearroll to get a new car, this is a symptom of a much greater issue, which is you guys are out of control, right?

There's there's something going on with debt. there's something going on with income that's causing you to spend on the credit card, not be able to pay the balance. And then instead of looking to something like savings or liquid cash, you're now looking to a line of credit that's attached to your home, which is what a heliloc is. And you're now thinking about draining the equity in one of your greatest assets to now fund what I think you said is I don't know if it's a brand new car, but a new car.

So, I'm a little nervous about that. Very nervous about that. Um, tell us when you say your current car is on the fritz, what does that mean? Does that mean, hey, we just have to make some repairs and we just don't want to pay the $700, or is it, you know, the engine exploded and it needs a new drive shaft?

Like, what's going on? I'll never use that terminology again, by the way. That's that's the best I've got. >> That was impressive.

one of those scenarios where we either

keep it for maybe a year, but it is a

2018 uh and it's uh gotten it's gotten so many problems to where the next time we get any sort of we have to pay more money for this car, it's we're just going to sell it at that point. Um >> Okay. So, you said you could make this work for another year. So, the question now is, can we clean up the financial mess in a year and save up for this car in cash and get a new to you car?

>> Well, yeah, I have cash. That's the thing. Um, >> how much cash do you have?

>> About 15 grand right now in a savings.

>> Good. >> But we have a lot of money actually in an inherited IRA. Um, but we want to use

that money to for a use that money technically as our income.

>> So, we use the stipens of that to add to our current income.

>> What's your current income without the IRA?

>> Without the IRA, the IRA right now is giving us an additional 30K a year.

>> So, then what do you guys make outside?

>> That would be about 135.

>> Okay. 135K is your household income. And what's left on the MX? What's the balance? uh about 14K.

>> So why don't you use your savings and pay off the MX today?

>> Well, because we then we don't have any savings. Well, we technically do, but then we don't have any like liquid cash. Like I don't like taking money out of that IRA. I want to use that use those monthly stipens for, you know, as long as I possibly can. >> Well, you like putting your house at risk with a heliloc to pay off the MX to buy a brand new car that's going to go down in value.

I get that it's going to go down in value, but I don't think the home is technically at risk because if I make a plan to pay this heel off quickly >> and don't a nickel for every time someone had a plan on this show, I wouldn't be in the job. So, >> here's the deal, dude. You know what to do. Use your cash savings to pay off the debt. Cut up the freaking MX. Never use it again. Never take out a heliloc. And then you save up for a car you can afford in cash.

That's it. and make the repairs needed until you have the cash to buy the car you want and make sure that car and everything other cars don't add up to more than half your annual income. So for you guys that's you know 65k in cars. >> Yeah, that's plenty of car.

>> Plenty of car. And I think the rule of thumb there's a lesson to be learned here and I think it's worth highlighting. So you cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating the problem. And in simplest terms that is if debt is your problem, you cannot

solve the problem of debt while going into more debt. You cannot use debt to solve for debt. The only way you solve for debt is to pay it off. And the the

problem with it is uh a lot of times people use language like I'm going to use a heliloc to pay off my credit card debt. Like you're not paying it off.

You're simply moving it. It is not a solution. It's just I'm moving it from here to over here. And the saddest thing about it, George, is they're thinking that that's a better position for the debt. >> They're like, "Well, I'd rather I I need to pay off the mafia, so I'll go borrow from the cartel. I'd rather owe the cartel money than the mafia." You're like, "Dude, this is a terrible life you've created for yourself." >> Yeah. And and it's it's not even I I

don't even want to create any shame around it because I think what's speaking here is desperation. It's I see a situation, it's not good, and I'm looking for a quick fix. Can I can I fix it quickly because you know, you know, you're not safe. Like, you know, it's not a good thing.

So, the quickest possible thing I can do, I can go over here and get a heliloc. They're going to loan me up to 80 to 90% of my home equity. I can do that. And it's like, hold up, pump the brakes.

Let's just think for a second. This guy's got the money sitting there. And in many cases, that is. You've got the money liquid, but there's that false security of I have this cash.

I need this cash. But we're telling you once you pay off the debt and you're free now, suddenly you've got more income, you can save up that cash again. If you saved it up once, you can save it up again. >> Well, and if you're scared to part with the cash, you already did by going 15 grand into debt.

>> That's right. >> Just you did did it without realizing it was someone else's money that you got to pay back later. And later always comes, unfortunately. >> It does.

And that's the part where and and this is I'm not saying this to be snarky. Although, George, you could say it to be snarky. >> I appreciate that. math.

If you're deciding to do math, then you have to decide to do math on both sides. If you're deciding to say, "I care about my 15,000. It took me x amount of months to save it up. It's precious to me." Then you have to do the math on the other side that goes, "Well, you don't really have that because you owe 14 >> on the balance sheet.

It's uh it's not math." >> Yeah. And so that's that's just a little something to remember. It's it's important, guys. Okay.

Brian in Sacramento, California. I'm sorry, Brian. How can we help you today?

>> Hi James. Hi George. Yes, it is. Um, I

want to buy uh sort of my midlife crisis

car. >> How much is the Mazda Miata going to cost you?

>> Close. It's uh 12 grand.

>> Okay. >> What What car is it?

>> I would rather not say cuz it's very rare, but it's as old as I am. And it's a convertible. Oh, >> that's fun. All right. And it's only 12K. Do you have the cash to do it?

>> I do. >> Are you in debt? >> What bothers me? >> No, I have no debt other than my mortgage. Um, but I am 54. I have only

about a hundred grand in uh retirement savings at this point. And um, you know, my mortgage I'd like to pay off by the time I'm in my mid60s. I'm currently on

track to pay it off by 66.

>> Okay. So, you're saying you feel bad blowing 12 grand on a toy when you're behind on retirement? >> I feel Yeah. Yeah. I feel self-indulgent

um and frivolous. Uh it's, you know, it

would be fun to have, but yeah, I just I

you I feel like I need to pay off my mortgage as fast as possible, and I need to build up my um my retirement as

quick. I'm currently putting 15% every year based on a $185,000 salary into my

401k. >> Would you be trading your existing car for this car or would this just be another car to add to the the the garage?

>> This would be this would be another car.

>> Okay. Are you married?

>> Single. >> Okay, man. Well, here's the thing. I don't think this is going to make or break your chances of retiring. But I do think if you buy this car, I would really uh

hit the accelerator to get your retirement in order, get this house paid off faster, get your income up even further. You're you're doing really well right now. You just are in, you know, later on in the game. So, I'm not mad about it. For you to get this 12k car, you got to be ready for the insurance, the maintenance, the repairs as well.

There's going to be ongoing costs, but again, it's not a make or break.

>> I think it's not a make or break. By the time you retire, your house is going to be paid off, and that money is going to a lump sum that's earning the right rate of return is going to double every seven years. So, I think that you can be okay.

>> Just be okay working 4 months longer than you would have. >> There you go.

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Ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jennifer is in Charleston, South Carolina.

>> Hi. How are y'all doing today?

>> Doing great. What's up in your world?

>> All right. So, me and my husband got married just over a year ago. And we

were living in an apartment, paying rent. We have no debt at all other than

just rent. >> Okay. >> So, we got into some family issues. Um

my husband's parents were supposed to be taking care of um my husband's grandparents when if one of them passed away. They were pretty much gonna be moving in with them. Um they got into an

argument. They're no longer taking care of gr his grandpa. So we have now been

blessed with the financial burden, I guess, of of his grandfather and trying to to help him financially because he's unable to on just one income. So, we're having a hard time trying to navigate our life moving forward with taking on this big expense. Um, since we're both

27, we haven't started our family or anything like that. Just kind of worried about long term.

>> So, let me get this straight. Your in-laws got mad and decided we're not

helping him anymore. And they then

pushed it over to you guys, the 27 year olds, >> pretty much. So, they don't think that he really looked at all of his options.

Um, he's living on his own right now. He was going to be moving in with them. Um, that now that they don't want him to move in. They think that >> why don't they want him to?

>> It was some argument and some some old bitterness from a some years ago that

now they don't want him to move in now that he's he's needing to.

>> Got it. And so now you guys are up to bat >> and you can also say no. What happens if

you say no? What do you think the repercussion is?

>> Uh probably just uh a hardened

relationship I guess with grandpa. I mean >> with grandpa. Okay.

>> Right. He is alone now and he's sad. He just lost his wife back in December.

>> So he just wants to be around family.

Yeah. And of course, he could probably

find a home to stay in or he probably

would have to get a job again and work to make up. But he's just living in He's 73. He's in great health condition. He

He just is loving the retired life. He doesn't want to have to go back to work.

>> Well, he doesn't get an option if he doesn't have money. >> I mean, true. So, I mean, that's a hard conversation to have with a grown adult and maybe the whole family and go, "Listen, >> we nobody wants to take on the financial burden. We love grandpa. We need to figure out a plan for him. Let's say he lives another 25 years.

>> Are you guys just going to live there and and take care of his bills for 25 years and stunt your own growth?" >> I don't want to. >> No, you insane thing to to be asked of you and you have every right to say, "No, I'm not doing that." >> Right. >> And it doesn't mean you don't love grandpa. It just means you're not going to be a part of this dysfunction and get this slapped on to you to go, "Well, this is your burden to carry forever.

That's what family does." >> Now, if you want to chip in to help grandpa, that's a discussion you can have and what limited contributions you're going to make per month for whatever amount of time. But for you to just fund his life forever because he enjoys being retired is insane.

>> Where is he living now? Does he have a home that he owns?

>> He does. He still has a mortgage on it.

um he could probably sell it but would only make probably a little over a hundred grand back in proceeds. Okay.

>> So, we have just moved in with him. We told him we can of course cover the the home things that >> you moved in with him.

>> Yeah, we already have. >> Oh, no. Jennifer, you just made this you

you made this the plot twist.

>> One of you has to get evicted. This is awkward. our our lease was ending and so

we didn't want to have to sign a six-month or another year if he was really struggling. And he's not he's not struggling yet.

>> Yeah. I thought you said he was healthy enough to go back to be working and stuff, >> right? Without going back to work, he's in like a $2,000 deficit is what he says. >> Per month, >> which really Yes. >> What are his expenses outside of the mortgage?

>> Um frivolous things. He He spends too

much money on groceries and >> so it's not really a deficit. It's a budgeting. >> He's living above his means for sure.

>> So now we're behavior. We're not even just taking care of the elderly. We're just funding his lifestyle and whatever he wants to buy, it's going to be on you to fund the deficit. Yeah. Even more reason to not sign up for this. >> Yeah. I think those are two different things. And it's worth noting the difference. If you're telling me that this guy just needs to reallocate funds and then he's got enough to live on his own, that is completely different than saying my grandfather who is 90 years

old who is suffering from, you know, whatever whatever health things, he cannot work. He has, you know, $1,500 of

social security and that's it. And no, right? Those are different situations.

Uh this is not that.

>> How much does he actually bring in a month? a little over 2,000.

>> And what's his mortgage payment?

>> His mortgage is like 792, I think.

>> Okay. Uh listen, >> escros his in or he escrows his um his

taxes. He pays out of pocket for insurance. >> Okay. What about cars? Does he have a car payment? >> Um no. Both of his cars are paid off.

Just the insurance. He has two vehicles.

He doesn't want to get rid of one cuz it's his dream Mustang that he enjoys driving. So the insurance on that a little high. I know gas is expensive.

>> I think he needs to feel the reality of his situation, which means nobody's going to be funding his misbehavior anymore. If he can't make the payments, if he goes deeply into credit card debt, that's on him. You don't need to try to like fund his life so that he doesn't go into if he goes into debt, that's he's a grown man who can make those decisions.

And that's, you know, Capital One's problem if they give a 73y old $10,000 credit card limit. And Jennifer, I want to turn this conversation to you just a little bit because I'm gonna tell you this is you and me just we're hanging out right now. Okay. Like you and me, we're best buddies. I'll probably pour you a glass of Chardonnay.

>> Love it. >> Okay. And I'm going to slide it over to you and I and ask you, why would you move into grand into grandpa's house? I

wonder, do you also have a thing here where it's like we can save a little bit of money? We'll split the the rent here.

We'll split the mortgage. It works out for us. >> Tell me why you would do that. Cuz I'm looking at this dysfunction going surely Jennifer wouldn't want to participate in that. >> Right. Right. So he has he has offered us a dealish.

So we >> an offer an offer you can't refuse.

>> Right. Right. So we're already paying rent. So that money is already kind of going down the drain, you know, in in say. So, we're paying towards the house,

which is about what we're paying in rent anyway. So, we're not really shelling out more money than we already are.

>> Okay. >> He has stated that this house that he's

in now just isn't going to be a good house long term for all of us.

>> Okay. Oh, he said if we move in and we pretty much agree to take care of him, that when we find the next house, when he sells his house, we'll get whatever pro or whatever money we've put into his house now as we're living there, we'll get back and then he'll pay the down payment of a new house for for us.

>> This guy should become a politician. The amount of lies coming out of his mouth, he should be in Congress right now cuz guess what? He's not going to have any money, >> right? To give you. >> He's pretty much banking on that. He's going to get a good chunk of proceeds from the house sale. >> Well, how is he going to take care of himself though cuz he would need to take those sales and that would cover I don't a nursing home or whatever living facility he'd go to, whatever care.

Heaven forbid he doesn't need a nurse or someone to take care of him. >> This is all the money he has to his name. He can't give it to you, >> right? And I would not save. He's He's

told me in in depth how much money he has. >> I thought you said he only had the hundred,000 in the in the house. What else does he have? Oh, no. I mean, he has savings and stuff like that. I'm just talking about once he sells the house. So, he has like 150,000 in a

savings account and I think he has 40,000 in another savings account, but he's trying to think how how long that's going to last him. >> Well, and that's the biggest problem because he's 73 and healthy. this could go on for another 25 years and you could look up and be like, "We've paid the Datgum house off." >> Yeah. >> And then he's like, "Oh, I don't, you know, I think that >> at a 25 grand deficit, all of his money is gone in like 5 years. So, I'm not

hitching my wagon to anything this guy's doing, and I'm not trusting anybody. >> You don't need it. You don't need it, Jennifer. You guys can go out and make a life for yourself and buy the house that you want in time. Nothing's on fire. We

don't need to make these crazy deals to be successful. >> I would move out tomorrow and say, "Love you, Grandpa. We'll visit at Thanksgiving.

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All right. All right. Laura is in Gray Falls, MT Montana. Okay. Did I get it

right, Laura? Is it Montana?

>> Yes. >> All right. Got to remember those abbreviations for >> elementary school. >> Elementary school. I'm telling you, how can we help out today, Laura?

>> Yeah. Thank you so much for taking my call. So, our question is, should we

pause baby step two to have the lead

paint on the exterior of our house scraped and redone?

That's a health hazard, correct? Major.

>> Yes. So, our children, two of our children have tested with lead exposure

in their blood. It's not like horrible, but >> Yes. I'm saying yes.

>> Yeah. >> How much is it going to cost to get rid of this poison that is on your home?

>> About $10,000.

>> Really? Just to get it out of there?

>> Cuz you got to repaint the whole thing.

Yeah. So, it the the paint is in horrible condition. So, the whole house has to be scraped to remove whatever is chipping and then they have to repaint the whole thing to seal it.

>> Okay. >> And you guys are in debt right now. How much debt do you have?

>> We have 23,000 in student loans and

103,000 on our house.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, just 23 is your consumer debt.

>> Yeah. That's where it gets really hard for us because we had planned that we would be done with that student loan within the next year to year and a half.

>> And um so now we're just like, do we wait the year and scrape and do the

house later or do we address this?

>> I would just make minimum payments on those student loans and stack up as much cash as you can to cash flow this whole thing >> and be done with it.

>> That's not what I was expecting. I mean, to me, this is an emergency.

>> If it were my kids, and and I'm weird about this kind of stuff, too. I Yes, there's certain things in life that trump getting out of debt, uh, for the

moment. Just for the moment. And this is one of them. Like, health is such a big part of of our life. Otherwise, what are we doing it all for? And this, if you don't deal with this, it could cause more bills and and issues down the line.

>> So, absolutely, I would pause the debt snowball and just make minimum payments.

How fast can you guys cash flow the the scraping and repainting?

>> Um, it'll be a few like five, six

months. >> Is there anything you can sell? Can either of you work extra? Get side jobs?

>> Um, >> cuz I wouldn't want to be in this house if I'm telling the truth. I'd be getting out of there until this thing is settled. Yeah, we tried last summer and we just

came up with like that would be a horrible financial decision right now.

>> Yeah. No, I would not sell over a $10,000 repair if if you wanted to look

at it like that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you have family nearby?

>> Um, yeah. Yeah, we do.

>> And then I'm also wondering, >> none of them >> can you break it down? I mean, obviously you want to have the house repainted, but can you do the scraping first? And that's the first thing we do. And then for a while your house looks, you know, ratchet. And then once you've saved up the other half and kind of break it up so it's not it's it's a little bit more bite-sized. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, that's an interesting thought. We had thought about scraping it ourselves, but then we're concerned that like we're exposing ourselves to the wood also.

>> I'm not saying scrape it yourself. I'm just simply saying how much is it cuz my guess is it's probably I don't know but it might be more expensive to repaint than to just chip off or scrape off the the bad paint. So I'd want separate estimates and just how much is it to get rid of the paint that's on the house?

You might find that that's three or 4,000. >> Have you got some bids on that?

>> We just got the a bid for like the whole thing. >> Mhm. So, I would check and see if you can get different bids and maybe you can find someone to scrape for three and paint for four. Well, now you just save three grand on the project.

>> Gotcha. >> So, I would be doing some homework to get that price down as I stack up cash as fast as possible. I mean, I'd be flipping things on Facebook Marketplace to try to create some cash. Like, this is an emergency.

Imagine your child needed an emergency procedure or medicine and you had to come up with 10 grand to get it. That's the level of urgency I would personally have for my family. Yeah, I agree. I would do the same thing.

And there are certain things, guys, and we can do a better job of of letting you know that cuz we're No one goes harder in the paint on debt than than us. We want you to, you know, move hell and high water to get out of debt.

All of that is so important, but we can't let that stop us from doing the things in the moment that really do require our attention. Obviously, anything regarding health, we're the first ones to tell you if there's an medical emergency, if somebody's having a baby, you need to pause. We're the first ones to tell you if somebody loses a job, if if if somebody goes into the hospital, you need to pause. And there's other things that need to happen while you're paying off debt.

Like, you need to have the right insurance. You need to have life insurance. You need to be paying for a will. Like, there are certain things that it's okay to do while you're doing baby step two, paying off the debt, and you should feel no shame about it.

>> Yeah. You're not a failure because it took you 6 months longer to pay off the student loans. >> No life.

>> Life be lifing as they say. All right.

Andy Detroit, Michigan on the line.

Andy, what's up?

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling on behalf of my son

and daughter-in-law. They bought a money pit house and they thought elbow grease would be enough, but it's not if they live paycheck to paycheck and can't fix things. And now they recently had an emergency flood that made situation worse. >> They have been displaced into a hotel and now there's talks about it possibly being condemned. >> Oh wow. >> Oh gosh. Is insurance paying it? Was the

flood something like where the water pipes burst or was it like it rained a lot and flood and water came in the house? Like what was the nature of the flood?

>> Um the recent thing that happened was a pipe burst and it caused this whole thing to start. But they've had floods from rain in the past that caused prior damage. >> So when So insurance is possibly going to cover some of this, but they're finding a lot that was already wrong with it. So insurance is probably not going to cover a lot of things have been wrong for many years. >> Yeah. >> Um they're finding asus in the ceiling, old wiring that has cloth coverings. Um

and >> did they not get an inspection? They didn't get an inspection when they purchased the house. >> They did. They did. Yes.

And they found none of this. They thought this house is perfect.

>> How long ago? How long have they had the house? >> It's been about a few years, I believe.

>> Like a few years like two or a few few years like eight. >> I think it's been I want to say three years. >> Okay. Three years. So what are you tell us? Tell us why you're calling.

>> I'm calling because I want to advise them. They they come to me for advice and I want to do it right.

I'm wondering if the short sale is what's going to be needed because I don't see if insur if insurance will cover this then everything will be fine.

They can work their way out of this. But if insurance won't cover this and the house is not livable, I'm afraid for them. >> I mean, I'm willing my husband and I are willing to take them into our house and do whatever it takes. >> But I want I just want to have the right advice for them financially, and I don't I I don't want to goof that up.

>> Are they panicking? Uh, and I'm not saying your panic is misplaced, but are they panicking as much as you are, >> or are they like, "We're fine." >> They're panicking more so. And when I talk to them, I I I show a lot different

side, >> right? You're like cool and calm behind the scenes and trying not to show.

>> Yeah. Okay. Do you know the numbers around the house? Do you know what they paid for it?

>> I I I believe it was like around 130,000. And it's just a little, you know, 800 to 900 foot house. But with the market, the way the market was when they bought it, this was all they could get. >> And if they just put it for sale asis,

hoping a flipper will take it. Do you think that what do you what do you think reasonably? I mean, I don't know if you've done any research. Reasonably, what do you think they could get asis?

>> I don't know. I have not done that research, but I know they would lose because they they haven't had a chance to pay off very much of this. >> Yeah. What's left on their mortgage now?

Pardon me. >> What's left on their mortgage?

>> That I don't know. I I I don't know specific numbers here because I try not to get too much in their business. I'm the I'm the mother and mother-in-law, >> so I'm trying to give advice while not being too much in their business. >> Listen, I'm kind of glad that you don't know the numbers. That makes me know that there's boundaries, which is great.

Have they asked for help?

>> Um, they ask for advice. They don't usually ask for financial help, but they ask for advice. >> That's fine. Well, on the advice front, what I would be doing is helping them navigate this insurance landscape cuz that's complicated and it's a headache and you think you got one denial, so you give up.

I would encourage them to appeal it, get a public adjuster, do all the research necessary because this insurance thing is the make or break if they're going to be able to get out of this unscathed or not. And worst case, there might be an ASIS cash buyer situation and they might be on the hook for the difference. And that's a real problem for them.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. We're headed back to the phone lines where George and I find Mark in Albany, New

York. Mark, how can we help out today?

>> Hi, how are you?

>> Doing great. What's up?

>> So, I was just wondering, is it ever okay to use or deplete your emergency fund to avoid taking a loan when you're making a big purchase?

Is the big purchase an emergency?

Something that is urgent, something that

uh is completely necessary and something that is like time factor. Yeah. Un unexpected.

>> Um no, it's something that's sort of been expected. It's for a car because my first my current one is getting a little too expensive to maintain. And although

safety isn't yet a concern, it's slowly getting to that point.

>> So, does the car need repairs? What do you mean expensive?

>> So, um I have to repair the not have to,

but the mileage is suffering from a damaged catalytic converter and a couple other things. And it's also just losing value. I know that shouldn't be my primary concern, but I'm just >> Is there a loan on it? Is it?

>> No, there is no loan. It's paid off.

Okay. And what kind of car are you looking to get? How much is that going to cost you?

>> Um, it would be about 30,000.

>> And would you be selling the current car?

>> Yeah, I'd be tracing it in most likely.

>> So, you trade it in and pay cash for this next car?

>> Yes. Yes. If I did not use the emergency fund, then I would be taking out a loan for about half that amount. Uh what's what's the what's the trade-in amount that you think you're going to get for the existing vehicle if you don't put the repairs in?

>> Um I might get three or 4,000.

>> Oh, okay. Um >> not much. All right. How much is in the emergency fund?

>> Uh right now I believe it's uh 11 or

12,000.

>> Okay. So you don't even have the money to even buy this cart. It's not like you have 30 grand sitting in the emergency fund ready to buy that car.

>> Yeah. Where's the other money coming from?

>> Well, I have uh 11 in the emergency fund and I've been saving up in a new car fund. I have about 16 or 17 in the new car fund, >> right? >> So, why can't we just spend 16 or 17 since you have a new car fund that you've saved for? You can get a great car for $17,000.

>> Uh I suppose I could. It's just I found what I really liked and I admit I am a

bit >> Pardon me. >> I was just saying ding ding ding, we have a winner. You you got to the actual the bottom of this which is I saw it and I want it and it looks fancier than the $17,000 version.

>> What kind of car is this?

>> Uh it's used, so it's not a new car.

Don't worry about that. Uh it's a 2023 Q5.

Oh, is that >> I thought we didn't want to get into expensive cars with expensive maintenance and expensive insurance and premium gas >> that is true. Yes, >> but we are.

This is different. Okay. So,

I I mean my my answer here is very cut and dry and we can get into the wise about it, but I think that you did something very intentional which you said I'm going to need a new car soon.

Therefore, it's not really an emergency cuz you you saw it was coming and you started saving money, which I applaud you. That's exactly what you should be doing. And you saved up a pretty penny.

You saved up $17,000.

Nothing stops you today from saying, "I'm going to buy $17,000 car today and I'm going to continue to save towards that car fund so that maybe next year or at the appropriate time I can add another $17,000 to it and then I can come up and get my what is it? I IQ, what is it called? >> The Q5, the Audi." So, I'm curious. Uh,

can you do these repairs now and ride this car for another 6 months to a year while you save up another 13 grand?

>> Um, for another 6 months, I'd probably

be able to save about seven grand.

>> Okay. So, that puts us at about 24.

>> Yeah, just about.

>> All right. I mean, I'm looking at them online right now. I'm looking at some 2023 Q5 sitting at 23 grand. So, I think

it's possible to do some research and and negotiate and find the right one for the price. And maybe it's 8 months, okay? Then we'll have 25 grand. And so, it's up to you the timeline, but the goal is don't use the emergency fund except for emergencies and save up and pay cash for this car.

And don't let them talk you cuz here's what's going to happen. You're going to step onto that lot and they're going to say, "Well, do you want to just see the 2026 model? I mean, we can get you in for whatever payment you want. I mean, we can work with you." >> Oh, sneaky sneaky.

Oh, I I already know the worst thing you can do is say, "I want my monthly payment to be this." Cuz they're going to sneak in all kinds of stuff.

>> Even just they're going to try to get you into a fancier car that gives them a higher commission. Talking extended warranty. >> I mean, I just played this game. They put lowjack on a Tesla, which already confined itself, Jade.

They put Lowjack on there as a little extra >> to try to add a little something. >> You can't take that off. I do feel like though when you go to the car dealership and you've done your research online and you're just like, I'm here to pick up the car.

I feel like there's less of that. You allow for less of that kind of inviting in of the sales guy. It's just I did my

research. Do you have the car ready? Here it is. Great.

Okay. Can you move on the price? Yes. >> Well, then you got to go to the finance office to talk to that guy no matter how you're paying.

And then he talks you. He wants to get you into the warranty and the paint protection package. >> That's true. exhausting.

It's such a silly game. >> I'll be honest. So Sam and I just upgraded vehicles a couple of I guess it's only been a couple of two weeks ago for him. And it really was it was the best experience ever.

I should give the guy a shout out, but yeah, looked online. This is the one we want. We called ahead of time. We said, "Hey, this is the car we're looking at." He goes, "Great.

I'll have it ready uh by the time you pull up." This is the Toyota in Colombia. Uh he goes, "We'll have it ready when we pull up." We pulled up. It was right there. He goes, "You guys just want to drive it?" He handed us the keys.

He was like, "I don't need to go with you. I trust you." Just like that. >> Wow. >> So, we go test drive the car by ourselves, come back.

He's like, "So," he was like, "Are you guys how are you wanting to pay for this?" And I said, "Let's let's decide the price first and then we'll decide." Me being sneaky.

goes, "All right." And he goes, "Well, what are you hoping to pay?" And I said, "Here's what we're hoping." And he goes, "Okay." I said, "If you can do that deal," I said, "We'll walk away, you know, we'll walk away with a car today." He comes back. He goes, "I think I can get there." I said, "All right, we're paying cash." That was that on that.

>> And that's it. >> That that was it. So simple, >> but you got to get to your point, you got to get to the heart of the matter. >> You got to have the walkway power.

You got to know exactly, you got to know more about the car than they do, first of all, because otherwise they'll they can talk around you in circles and and get you in a car that you didn't actually want or you didn't ask enough questions about. >> I think the worst thing is when you're like, I think I want a new car.

>> Dangerous. Well, this and it's why like the CarMax and Carvanas of the world have done so well because nobody wants to have to sit there and negotiate and haggle. They just go, "I see that car for that price. Can I have that?" They go, "Sure." >> Yeah. Normal dealership experience.

>> When I went to the place, that was their whole thing. We get you in and out in less than an hour. >> That's amazing. >> And it was less than an hour. Can I just say >> it's not an interrogation. It's a time share presentation. And you're there for 3 and 1/2 hours to drink some cured coffee >> and you don't even walk out with what you wanted. >> No, >> that's the worst part.

>> All right, George. >> Well, I hope we help, Mark. The the key is it's not an emergency. And thank you for at least admitting it's just a shiny new thing and you want it.

And so now you can look at your piece of crap car and go, "Well, the catalytic converter is out. It's going to be a safety issue." And you got just say it. You want a nice new car, at least new to you. And it's okay.

Just make sure everything all the things with wheels and motors don't add up to more than half your annual income. >> That's right. >> And go. There's some opportunity cost here.

And if you're willing to take on the cost of ownership and maintenance and premium gas, which right now >> that hurts. >> Yes, it does. >> Then go for it.

>> Yeah. You got to know the difference between an emergency, guys. We hit it earlier. It's got to be urgent, necessary, boy, and unexpected.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

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All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've been turned away by other lenders because your private student loans are out of control, Yrefi may still be able to help. They specialize in refinancing options built specifically for borrowers in your situation. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in South Dakota. We're debtree with our fully funded emergency fund.

So, I'm creating syncing funds for newer cars and house projects. I'm guessing that the syncing funds can't be cash and envelopes. So, do I need to open separate savings accounts or separate checking accounts for each goal? What is the best way to create a syncing fund where I can put my money aside and not touch it for those expenses? These are great questions to be asking. >> Yeah, very good. >> Okay, so let's start with the first question. She's saying, okay, it's not going to be cash and envelopes. Do I need separate savings accounts?

>> You could. >> I think it's helpful. >> Yeah. >> And what's cool is so we have our partner Fairwinds.

We're in the Fairwinds studio. >> Ah, yes. >> And what's really cool is they created this just for our fans. You can have up to 10 different savings accounts that are earmarked for different things.

>> Wow. >> Within the high yield savings. So that's what I would do personally is have a car fund cuz these are big ticket items. If it's little stuff, you don't need it all in separate savings.

That gets complicated. But a big house project or a car, I would label it car.

>> They're actually different accounts or are they like bucketed? >> Yeah, they're bucketed it in there. So, you can actually move money around between them. >> Oh, wow. That's nice. That's very convenient. >> So, that's that's one feature. And the syncing fund part, you can set that up in every dollar >> to actually market as a fund >> and you know, if it's let's say $1,200 for the year is what you need. Yep. >> You can set a syncing fund for a hundred bucks a month in every dollar.

>> Perfect. I love that. And and that's just one of the ways that every dollar really helps you have a a functioning budget doing the things that you want to do. I always say a good budget is detailed, realistic, and flexible. And that's what you can do. The budget's very flexible. You can add the line items in there. You connect your bank.

I'm a pro bank connect. You can track your transactions. You can set goals.

All of those things you can do within every dollar. And you can manage your syncing funds. I love that. All right.

>> So great. >> Mary's in Denver, Colorado. Mary, how

can we help out today?

>> Hi. Um, my question is I am married. Um,

my and we're having kind of a dispute on

retirement. Um, I contribute a lot to my

retirement account and my husband contributes nothing, just social security. So, I'm get asking your advice on how to address this issue.

>> So, how old how old are you guys?

Um, I'm 37 and my husband is 39.

>> Okay. And when you say he his his goal is we'll just live off social security.

Is that what I hear you saying?

>> Correct. Um, it's worked for his parents

and he believes that that's all he

needs. >> Okay. Are you guys out of debt?

>> We are. We're on baby step four.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, just to frame up this conversation and then we're going to go to town on this. So, let's talk about social security for a brief moment because he's not the only person in the world who has had that plan. But the truth is >> social security is only going to replace about 40% of your income and that's if it's still >> existent. The trust fund is going to be depleted by I think 20 32 or something

and that's going to lower the benefits by probably 23% or so. And the average

payment right now for social security is like 2 grand. >> Yeah. 18 to 2,000 which is >> you guys inflation. Imagine 30 years from now how much two grand is going to get you. >> Yeah. >> So not >> I think some of it is the actual facts and it may it may need to come from someone else. You guys might need to sit down with a financial adviser, a smart investor pro and have them walk him

through the reality of the situation and what could be. So sure, could you get by

off of social security? Ask people who are doing it. >> It's a sad reality. >> That's usually the calls that we get when people call in and their parents or their grandparents, if quote, all they have is social security, then the rest of the family, the younger members of the family are on the hook or feel like they're on the hook to help that person survive.

And that is certainly not the position you want. I think social security is fine as supplement, you know, as a supplemental piece of your retirement, but it should not be the main piece. Okay, we've made that argument. Uh, so let's talk about the convincing part.

How much are you doing? The 15% or

>> correct. Yeah, I do 15% and I make

significantly um a lot more than my husband and um I also work full-time and

he works kind of part-time. Um >> why is that? So that's my issue is

>> um well he works for his dad in a um his

dad owns a concrete company and his dad is getting to in my opinion needs to

retire and um it's the business is just

not it's just not going to really go anywhere. Um >> what's he earn working part time there?

What's he earn working part-time there?

>> Um he makes about 40,000 a year.

And what do you earn?

>> I make about 55,000 or sorry 155,000.

Yeah. >> Do you and and you if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to, but do you feel like because your income is so solid that he kind of feels like he can coast and doesn't really need to do much?

>> Yeah, I do. He also has three kids. I'm a stepmom to three kids and I have none of my own. Okay. Um, so my concern, I

guess long term is in my family, we have

a lot of um, inheritance coming down the line here and I want to protect myself and if I have a child of my own, >> um, you know, we're trying, but it's not working. And so I'm saying if if I have a child of my own, I want to be able to

pass down my family's inheritance to my child and I also want to, you know, I I

just want to protect myself. I I'm not saying like we're headed for like a divorce, but I just in some way feel like I'm being taken advantage of and >> yeah, >> I just don't know how to navigate it.

>> Well, you're seeing some red flags and you don't want to ignore them and I think that that's very smart and scary.

It's scary to not put your, you know, bury your face in the ground. You're trying to be alert and see what's going on. And I I applaud you for that.

>> Have you actually shared your why behind all of this? not asking him why is he not contributing but saying here's why I'm scared here's why I'm contributing I have a fear of not being prepared I want to leave an inheritance to our children and their children I want freedom in retirement I want to be able to travel I don't want financial stress does he care about any of that if you shared it with him >> yeah I've shared it with him and um

um yeah I've shared it with him I I before we even got married I shared with him my retirement dreams I want to have multiple homes in different states. I want to be able to travel. I want to see my family. I've shared all of that before we even got married because it was a concern of mine. And um I've just worked very hard in my career. I've learned, you know, where where I'm at.

And um >> what's his response?

>> He says that he

I think he honestly he's just content

being at home, being around his children. I I think that over the years his dreams have kind of changed compared to mine. >> Has he given up or is that that truly what he wants? He just wants to be a stay-at-home dad. Like which do you think it is honestly?

>> Um I think it's a little a little bit of

both. I think that he doesn't I think honestly he feels a little defeated the fact that I make so much more money and that I'm already so far ahead of my retirement. Um, and when I say I want to travel and I want to see my family, I have a large family. He has a very small family. I want to go >> golf and do all these things. He's very content being at home. It just >> very different changed. Yes.

>> It sounds like you guys were never aligned on any of these like values and goals. It was just sort of like, well, we're different. It'll be fine. But now, I mean, there's a chasm that's growing between you guys as you are very driven.

You're ambitious. You have certain goals and dreams. And he's gone, that's not for me. and he and the truth is he doesn't care about those for you.

>> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married five years and I think that the things have changed. Um we've been together almost nine and his children have grown up. They're now 20,

18, and we have an 11-year-old and the 20-year-old has a baby. And I think things as the children have gotten older, his priorities have become more of I want to be around my grandchildren.

I want to be around my children and less about traveling and doing all those things. But I feel free to do that because I don't have a child of myself.

>> I'll be honest with you, Mary. This sounds like something that can only be solved in a counselor's office.

>> This is a marriage problem far more than a financial problem. And I hope you guys can figure it out and align on on some vision for your future.

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Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com/insurance.

Well guys, the Memorial Day sale is here, but it's only here for 4 days. So

take control before the summer hits. We have real tools, real life change at your disposal here. Get two hard covers and assessments for just $20. It's this

weekend only. So you can get two hardcover books and assessments for $20.

I like that. >> A little bundle. >> There's a little bundle going on. Uh, you could also get uh books. These are hard hitters, guys. Heavy hitters. Baby Steps Millionaires. Come on. That's OG.

Building a non- anxious life from Dr.

John Deloney. Breaking free from broke from George Camel right here. The Get Clear Assessment from Ken Coleman. RIP.

And then the Total Money Makeover from the GOAT Dave Ramsey. I'm telling you guys, go to ramseyolutions.com/store or click the link in the description if you're watching. Remember, the sale ends Monday. Monday. Monday. All right. We got not bad. We got Grace who's in Dayton, Ohio. Hey, Grace. How can George and I help today?

>> Hi there. Good afternoon. So, my question is regarding whether I should use my home equity to pay for college. I

am a single mom to two teenagers, ages 14 and 16. Do you recommend a heliloc

for this type of situation? I owe 96,000

on the home and I have roughly 200,000 in equity. >> Oh boy. Okay. So, let me start with the

the empathy, which is I love that you're thinking about ways to for your kids not to go into debt. I love that you're thinking about ways to pay for college that doesn't put the debt burden on them. However, um putting it on you and your home in

your place of safety and security is something that I would never ever ever recommend.

And the reason is >> Okay. >> Yeah. That heliloc is like a credit card attached to your house. So you're going backwards. Now you got a variable interest rate while putting you at risk for foreclosure if you miss payments. So you're trading this unsecured education debt for secured debt attached to your house. >> Mhm. >> And and and let's let's unpack that just a little bit more because I think it could be helpful for you and anybody listening. Guys, when we when you bought

a house, you weren't thinking to yourself, "Oh, if I buy this house, it would make a very good credit card for me." You bought the house thinking, "This is a way that I can build wealth.

This is a way that I can have security.

This is a place of, do you see what I'm saying? Financial security and emotional security. >> You're like resetting the clock on when you can retire now, which puts you at risk of you becoming a burden to your kids. Mh.

>> So, I I want them to go to school debtree, but let's make a plan to take debt off the table and go, "Okay, what are all the ways, all the levers we can pull that don't involve debt?" And that might mean they're going to work part-time. It might mean they're going to go to a two-year >> community college to knock out their prerex.

>> How old are they? Are they ready to go? Right. Right now, >> they're 14 and 16.

>> Okay. So, there's a little bit of time.

Have there been conversations about college plans and what they might want to do because they're still young enough that they don't know.

>> Yeah, they do know they would love to go to a four-year school. So, I'm just trying to figure out how I can potentially make that work for them.

>> And is that do they have do they want to stay in state? Because I would start to set some boundaries on, hey, guess what?

School costs this much money. It's going to be $200,000 for you to go out of

state to this quote unquote dream school or quote name brand school or you can go to the school down the road for 5,000 a semester >> so you can start to help them understand the math on this.

>> Yes, I'm with you. And I think they're very willing to go to a reasonable instate school.

>> I I'm just not even sure I can afford that lower cost route um with you know

what I'm looking at. >> That's factor. you're not factoring in if they get scholarships, grants, and that's where the the pressure is on to do really well in school, get really good, you know, grades on those those SATs and >> and uh maybe there's even athletic scholarships. I don't know what they're into, but I would be looking at every scholarship and grant possible.

You saving up as much as you can in a college savings account like a 529 plan and having them choose an affordable school and possibly working part-time and even working now to start saving up for that. doing community college on that first on those first gen eds is going to save you a ton a ton. I wish I had done it if I had been able to. So that plus what George is saying, I mean that's how people that's exactly how people do it.

People call in all the time who paid cash for college and that's the way they do it. And I would say to George's point, don't be afraid to to have let them have some skin in the game. You know, this is the point, especially for the 16-year-old, applying for scholarships and creating an environment where they can be accepted for those scholarships. That ought to be their full-time job.

You know, also while they're working at a supermarket or McDonald's or wherever else they're working.

>> Okay, I like that. >> Yeah. And if you wanted some help with the conversation, you can go watch Borrowed Future. It's a free documentary we created. It's on our YouTube channel.

Just search Borrowed Future. And that will cause them to be asking questions and it will likely scare them away from going into debt for college. And so that way we can do the work for you. Uh I also talk about this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

I have a whole chapter on student loans and at the end, how to go to college debtree. That's the goal because I don't want to set you back in retirement and you just take on the burden and go, "Well, at least the kids went to school debtree. Now I'm shackled to debt for the next 20 years." >> Yeah. And I mean, we see that not just with Helock's grace, but even with folks doing parent plus loans.

It's just it it really is. I think what it is is parent guilt, in this case, mom guilt, where it's like, I don't want to be the reason that they go into debt >> or I didn't do a good job.

>> And it reflects on me as a parent. And the truth is I I I've said this before and I'll say it again. The ability to pay for college is a privilege both for the parent and for the the child. If you're there's plenty of people who meet us uh on down the line, their kids have already gone to school and they never they didn't find Ramsey solutions in time to kind of create that pathway. And that's okay. Like we're all learning.

We're all making mistakes. But I will say the most important thing that you can do even more so than paying for the college is just starting to have the conversation very early and very often on what the expectations are. So if you're just saying hey this is what my parents did for me. They said there is no college fund. We don't have the 529.

If Jade if you want to go to college you either need to be very smart or very good at sports. And they said that straight up and I was like okay got it.

Let me let me work on this. Yes. And kids, I I think I hate to say the word kids, teenagers, I think they they're responsive to that, especially if the if it's the household that you brought them up in, which is, hey, we're responsible for ourselves and, you know, we're self starters and that sort of thing. So, >> I was just at a local high school in in Columbia, Tennessee, and we just released this video on my YouTube channel. I asked high schoolers money questions they weren't ready for.

>> Oh. >> And it was shocking to me, Jade, that I was the first person to be asking them questions like, "Hey, what do you want to do after high school?" Okay. What's that going to cost you? But do you plan on taking student loans? Yeah. >> How much student loans you would you how much debt would you be willing to go into to get this degree?

>> And what were was it was it crazy what they were saying? >> Oh, they had no one Well, the funniest one was this girl wanted to be she said, "I want to stay at home." I went, "That's sweet. You want to have kids?" And no, she said, "No, I don't want kids." I said, "You want to be a stay-at-home wife?" I said, "How will you spend your time?" She said, "Chopping." >> Oh. >> And I said, "I wish you the best of luck with this plan." And God bless the man who signs up for that.

Oh, >> but a lot of the kids were just sort of like, well, college is the next step because I was told it's the next step. I don't really have a game plan. I hope I have a job on the other side that pays me enough to knock out my student loans and whatever other debt I have. And so, it just reminder that parents need to be having these conversations early and often.

It should not be a YouTuber like me asking your kid for the first time at 16 or 17 how how they're going to pay for college, what's the game plan, why are they going?

>> And their friends are going. Exactly.

>> Because the football team is great. >> Exactly. >> That's the real reason kids are going. The brochures, they don't talk about how great the library is and the quality of education. They're showing you the water slides, the cafeteria, the football team, how exciting it's going to be.

That's how they market these things to get you to spend what you spend.

>> I also think another driver is just like the freedom. The way I get freedom is I go to college. Like I have to go away, then I can have a dorm room.

>> The further I go away, the better. And also the more expensive. >> Yeah. So true, George. Yeah. Having these conversations so so important. And again, if you're able to do a 529 and fund your kids' college, that's amazing.

What a privilege. That's fabulous. Good for you. Good for them. But you're not if you're not able to, that's also okay.

As long as you're having these conversations, as long as you take debt off the table, totally fine to tell your kid, "Hey, you're gonna work for this.

I'm gonna work for this and you are too, and you're going to work more." That's right. >> And they may they may not thank you now, but I promise you, when they're in their 20s and they look at all their friends with student loan debt, they're going to go, "Mom, thank you. Dad, thank you for allowing me to avoid student loans.

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to ramseyolutions.com/store.

Well, we're coming to the end of the line, so that means one thing. Scripture and quote of the day. George, >> can't miss it. Galatians 6:4-5 says,

"Each one should test their own actions.

Then they can take pride in themselves alone without comparing themselves to someone else. For each one should carry their own load." Underline that. Check

yourself before you wreck yourself. >> You best check yourself before you wreck yourself. All right. Mark Twain, not Dr.

Dre, said, "A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval."

>> I'll chew on that. >> I'll chew on that a little bit. Come on, Mark Twain. We were just on Dr. Dre and here you come. All right.

>> The Dre of his time, some say.

>> Some say. All right. Wow, that really makes me want to laugh. Alex from Los Angeles is on the line. What's going on, Alex? >> Hi, guys. Thank you for the Dr. D shout out. He's real.

>> So, um yeah. So, I had a question basically for um how do how do the baby steps involve a newborn baby that we had

with my partner. And with those baby steps, um what what are the deciding factors that that decide who moves in with who? >> Is it who makes the most money? Is it who who's closer to work?

Is it >> who has the most family around? How does that all tie in together? >> Well, they're definitely all factors. A coin toss or a thumb war would be my my favorite options.

>> Oh man. >> Are you guys getting married or tell us tell us about the nature of the relationship. >> That is that is um in the upcoming future. I'm getting married together of course having a strong >> um family foundation to begin with.

And then just I guess just making sure that I do the best that I can for my family. um whether it's saving the most money, whether it's, you know, um moving into the cheapest city, I just want to see what what guidelines are there for, um the baby steps and, you know, creating a family. >> Well, are you and your partner in different cities? You've mentioned that a couple of times. >> Cities. Yes. >> Where are you and where is she?

>> Um it's about a 40-minute commute from the both cities. >> Okay. Yeah, >> we'll keep that uh confidential. Um, my

I I want to get to your question and I don't want to sidetrack it, but I'm kind of like, why not just get married? Like, solidify it. The baby's here. There's no question you're going to be living together and starting a family together.

I think, George, that that would be top on my list first and then I'd be looking at >> spots. We can have the party later, but why not? If I mean, if if we are >> we're doing this thing, we're in this together for life with this new baby. Uh why not just go down to the courthouse, get the marriage certificate and and have some protections in place for both of you?

>> Definitely. I I I feel like that would definitely make the household stronger um income as well. You know, we can, you know, get um combined incomes and >> get our goals going, get the baby steps knocked out.

>> Yeah, definitely. Um she's not really into this like mindset like saving money and you know, building a good foundation. So, I guess that's kind of what >> What is she into? >> Coming with me? >> Uh, like working, going home, buying stuff, jewelry, things like that. Um, >> got it. Okay.

>> Are you the saver? How much money do you have? >> Yeah, I'd say so. Um, about a couple 15 to 20. >> And do you have any debt?

>> Um, I'm Yes, I do. I'm working on paying that off. Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, it's about 20 in total. So, yeah.

>> What she have, do you know? I don't know. That's kind of, you know, >> on her side of the court. Um, we haven't been as vocal financially, but she does know that I have this mindset of >> getting towards that end of the baby steps. But again, I don't want to scare her away and be like, "Oh man, if I move in with him, >> can we be real, Alex? You guys made a baby together. I think it's time to get

real with each other." >> Well, how new is the newborn? How How young is this baby? >> One month. One month. >> I I will say this.

come at me in the comments. But if you have this conversation with a one-month-old and she's still riding high on hormones and whatever, it may not end well for you tonight. So, I

might I might spend the next >> one to two months and gather my information and journal and think through what it is that I want to say and kind of you do some self-preparation, give her some time to kind of adjust to life, then have the conversation, ease into it. Uh, >> postpartum is real. It >> It's a real thing. You're talking to somebody who was crazy. So, um, >> was she working before?

>> She was, but she's been off leave ever since. So, about a month with no work. I I went back to work two weeks after she was born. >> So, how is she covering her bills and the baby right now?

>> Um, through her savings that she might that she has. She did tell me she has a little bit saved and she also has uh family leave. So, it's not I don't think she's lost too much of her income.

>> Okay. What's the expectation of of you chipping in and helping pay for things?

>> Um, well, I mean, if she moves in with me, I'd be covering the rent from for both of us together and my daughter. Um, you know, just leading the household in a sense, putting food on the table.

>> How long did Can I just ask uh and no judgment, how long did you guys know each other before the baby?

>> Before the pregnancy? A few years. Okay.

So, you you know her.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, definitely. We've been Yeah, she she knows my family. I know her family.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Good. >> But, um, yeah. And you do you live near where you work? You work in an office?

>> I do. Yes. I I I got promoted recently

as well. I start a new position in two weeks. So I >> Congrats. What are you making? >> Getting closer to my um 90.

>> Awesome. And what was she doing and what is she making? >> The same thing, but um she's making 70.

>> Okay. And she does plan on going back to work at this point.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I mean, it's a discussion for you two to have as far as who's going to go where and what the commutes are like.

There's some logistical pieces of this that I would factor into the equation >> and you know, what is she paying for rent, what are you paying for rent, how much can we afford together as a family as we do a budget together. And again, I would not combine incomes until you're married and I would get married very soon so that we can combine our lives fully because until then, this is just going to be messy and awkward and Venmoing each other. Definitely >> the things I'd be thinking about uh as priorities in deciding I'd be thinking about >> if we need family around for child care than whoever's closest to the family who has been said that they would help.

I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about the place with the lower rent because if something happens and she becomes more attached than she thought she was going to be and decides, you know what, I kind of do want to be home more. Having a lower cost of living is going to behoove you.

like possible drivers on this. I don't think the size of the apartment would be as big of a driver because, you know, if you decide to have more children down the line, you can always move that.

That's fine. But I think those top two tend to be the ones that it's like, okay, daycare is always a big ticket thing. So, having family is so important. And then of course, yeah, the >> and lease agreements as well, like who signed up for what, how much time is left on the lease, can we get out early, which one has the least amount of damage if we exit early?

And so I would be looking into all those factors. And those are things you can do now kind of on your own. You know, you can ask her for some details without getting into the weeds, but yeah, >> there's going to be a lot of logistics here to figure out. And again, it's just going to simplify everything if we can combine our life, be married.

It's just one team, one dream. >> One team, one band, one sound. Remember Drum Line? Nick, >> I missed that one.

>> You ever seen Drum Line? Have we had this discussion? >> I think we didn't. I think you judged me last time we had this discussion.

>> They probably did. Listen, the movie's not all that good. >> Do I look like a guy who would enjoy drum line? >> Yeah, it's H.B.CU centered.

>> Well, it's more the I don't do band stuff. >> You do bands.

>> Yeah, I'm punk rock. All right.

>> Bonav. >> There we go. Are you happy that I said it the right way? >> Thank you for not saying Bon Ivor offensive to all people groups. >> Oh, well, let it be known that I have said it that way as well. And I believe you were the one who corrected me, so >> Oh, that's great.

>> You live and you learn. All right. Do we want to take Jessica or can we can we get to it? >> Can we take a social question? We have some great ones here. >> All right, Jessica, call us back tomorrow. I promise we'll get to you. But if people Let me just say this.

People don't know this. The Ramsay show is on the radio as much as it is on YouTube. And so we have a clock guys that we have to hit. We have to go to break at a certain time. We have to do all that. So don't be mad at us. >> The segments are like exactly 8 minutes and 34 seconds and it's our job to police that and try to get in and out.

So >> and that's why sometimes it's like we feel like we don't take as much time.

Don't be mad at us. It's just the clock.

We have to make the radio folks happy, too. Well, >> we got uh less than a minute. What do you got for me? >> All right.

Should we include our child's 529 accounts as part of our as part of our net worth or not since they're going to be spent eventually? >> Oh, that's a fun one. >> I like that question. >> I mean, you can include it for now, but I wouldn't include it as far as your nest egg and retirement projections.

But yes, it is an asset and who knows if they'll actually use all of it. >> Yeah. And growing on on accounting terms, it all counts. But I would not count it as far as my future financial plans.

>> Do you think about yours when you when you sit at night and you ponder your network? >> I do. You know, well, I check it to see where it's at cuz every month I contribute. So, I like to see the number go up and to the right.

>> I agree. F. I see what you did there.

Pardon the pun. Well, guys, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 285. You’ll Always Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck Until You Have a Budget | September 2, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

This is the Ramsay Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships. We want to help you win in all of those areas. The phone number for you to jump in today is88255225.8825.

88 8255225.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman and we are ready to go to help you. Let's start it off with Dallas in Birmingham. That's not confusing at all. Dallas, how can we help?

>> Good a good morning. Uh good afternoon.

I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Uh just wanted to my wife,

my lovely wife and I uh of uh 26 years

we are just swamped in debt >> and uh I have been doing we've been doing this for so long. Uh I am just uh

we're beaten down with it. So >> we're trying to get some help here. Uh we have a a decision. Uh well, we were

kind of trying to decide what to do. Um,

I were, uh, where do you want me to start? Um, I have $76,000 in student

loans. >> Uh, I did do, uh, two stupid moves. I,

uh, I'm an avid Dave uh, Ramsay fan, by

the way. I listen to you guys podcast and I listen to you a lot. So, I did do two stupid things. cuz I bought a truck uh after selling >> uh my truck to pay for uh my baby our

baby's uh first uh semester in college.

So, I missed my truck. I bought another one. And my wife retired a couple of

years ago. So, I got the bright idea to go out and try to buy her a car.

>> Oh, no. Okay.

>> Yes. >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're both 50. I turned I'm sorry. I turned 51 and she will be turning 51 here shortly. We're high school sweethearts. >> Um, sorry. I know that had nothing to do with anything. >> Hey, that's a good year, by the way. And 74 is a good year. I was born in 74.

It's a good year. Great. Great. Good year. Good year. That's not relevant to anybody but us. Thank you very much.

>> Uh, give us the debt load on the car and the truck. >> Okay. Uh, the debt load on the car on the truck I owe 29,000.

Uh, her car we owe 33,000.

>> Okay. Anything else? >> And uh 13 Yes. $13,000 in credit card

debt. So uh that's >> that's it. >> The uh well then of Well, uh house. Yes,

we have a home. >> Um uh you want the total on on the home what we owe? We owe 373.

>> Okay. Just I was just curious about that. Tell me about your income. What I know you said your wife's retired, but what do you guys take home every month?

>> Well, actually, she started back working again. start back working and then >> uh so she's uh she's a teacher, she's a retired teacher and then she's teaching now in the private school >> uh system. So >> what are you guys bringing home?

>> Uh uh total my pay varies. Uh last year

I brought home uh >> think about it by the month. That'll help you out when you see the month.

What's it look like? >> I wrote it down. Uh my wife, she actually and I wrote down numbers that we actually touched. So, she actually touches $4,049 a month. >> Good. >> And my pay varies due to overtime and things like that. But >> give me a middle month. >> A middle uh you I can do you better. I can do the worst month. The worst. Uh well, >> why are you at this point? I'll just take a number. I'm anxious for a number.

Just any number at this point. >> I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Okay. Uh uh 6723 is what I'm totaling

this far. >> So, you guys are take home. So, you guys are taking home almost 11,000 take-home.

Is that what I'm hearing?

>> I I'll say 10. Yes. >> Okay, great. 10K a month. How much is your mortgage?

>> Uh mortgage is 2137.

>> Okay, fine. Okay.

Listen, that was a lot, Dallas, to get to that. Okay, so uh you called in

saying that you guys are just over overwhelmed. Um >> when did your wife start back working?

Did that just now start or has she been back for a couple months >> or since last year I should say?

>> Oh, no, no, no. Last year. Uh, she started back last year. >> Okay. So, you've had her income. Tell me. Yes. >> Um, the So, you did mention a child that went to school, but it sounded like you were able to cash flow that or is college still on the plate?

>> College is still on the plate now and it's mainly her Well, it's mainly her apartment. >> Are you So, you're cash flowing that?

>> Yes. >> What is the Okay, I'm going to I'm going to jump to the crux of this thing quick.

Dallas. But I want one more number. What are you paying for her apartment?

>> 750 a month. >> 750. Okay. So, >> does she have roommates?

>> Uh, yes. But it's kind of one of those things where they both pay the 750.

>> And it's Yeah. >> So, what is the car What is the car worth? I know you owe 33. Is it Is it worth more than you owe?

>> Um, no.

>> What about the truck? >> I know. We're Well Well, I What? I'm What? I'm getting confused. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. >> Are you upside down? All right. Here's it. Let me drive. Let me drive. Hold up.

>> Okay. >> Let me drive cuz we we we got it. We got three minutes. So, you you answer.

That's okay. I got you, dog. All right.

So, are you upside down in the car?

>> Yes. I don't have those exact numbers.

>> That's okay. Are you upside down on the truck? >> Very. 14,000.

>> All right. That's okay. We won't spend any time on that. Okay.

So, Jade, I I'm I'm leaning in here. I want Jay to be able to help. What I think is happening, Dallas, is you guys have no idea how to budget because even with these numbers, and I and I don't want to take up any more time on what your >> Well, you know what? Do you know your minimum?

Do you know your payments on the car and the truck? What are the truck? >> You need those. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

car payment is 668.

>> All right. That gives Jade a thing. I bet you guys just don't know how to budget. That's what I think.

I don't think it you should it it you have debt so you're going to feel the squeeze but based on the numbers I feel like the biggest squeeze is from the fact that you guys aren't on a budget and Ken and I can hear that in the way you're talking about it. So before you get off the call we are going to set you up with every dollar. Um, and that's going to help you get control over. Just seeing the numbers, Dallas, is going to give you so much control so that you know actually where your money's going and you'll be able to see once you plug the numbers into your budget how much margin you should have left to be attacking your smallest debt.

I'm going to give you uh three bits of homework.

>> All right? So, you guys are sitting down and I want you to complete it. Don't start it and be like, "Oh, tomorrow we'll do it." I want you to complete the budget tonight so you can see that margin. Uh, second thing is, uh, Ken and I want you to go on kellybluebook.com and get the true numbers on what the

what you owe on these cars versus what they're worth so that you can find out the amount that you're upside down.

Okay, so that's the ne next thing. Find out how much I am up upside down from a true source, not just, you know, boooo who took a look at your car the other day. Don't trust Boo Boo. >> Yeah.

Uh real number. Uh and then the third thing is now we're going to find out is it something that you know I don't know what your credit's looking like, but you're going to need to get a loan for the difference on this upside down stuff. Whether you go to the credit union, whether you go I don't care where you go.

And get ourselves into into a cash hooptie. I didn't ask you, but do you have any money saved? Quick answer.

>> Do not. That's the issue. I I've I had to stop my retirement because I can't afford to pay. >> But that was right. That was right. That was the right thing to do.

>> Okay. And we just cannot save a dollar.

>> It's because you don't It's because you don't have a budget. And to Ken's point, you're spending that's going to stop today. Yeah. >> Because you're going to see Yeah.

debt is a problem, but you want to know Dallas. You're also going to see we've been going out to eat and we've been doing things we can't afford and it really is just a lack of sight line on this. >> It is. Dallas, I'll say this as point blank as I can say it.

I'm doing a rough look at the numbers you gave us. Plus, I'm looking at utilities, groceries.

>> Your take-home, you ready for some good news, Dallas? If you do what Jay told you >> and use the budget, you're going to be able to put a couple thousand dollar a month towards debt. Yes, >> you guys have the margin. You just have no plan. >> No plan. [Music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

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Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

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[Music]

All right, Quinn is up next in South Carolina. Quinn, how can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm currently in college. I'm $49,000 in debt and I have three

semesters left and I still am going to

need to come up with about 28,000.

>> Okay. And what are we pursuing?

>> So, uh, mechanical engineering.

>> Okay. All right. Keep going.

And so the I'm currently a senior, but I

switched majors a couple times. So I'm going to have an extra three semesters after my senior year. And my parents

have helped me these four years. And then the next three semesters I'll be on

my own. And I'm curious on whether I should continue to do federal loans

uh to pay for that or if I should or how

I should go about paying for that. Well, when you said your parents were helping you the first four years, what does that mean? Because you already have 50,000 in debt.

>> So, they would help me like they paid for my rent and uh anything that federal

loans plus my scholarships didn't cover, they would cover. >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay. So, the problem

here and you need another 28,000 is what you said. >> What school are you? Where are you at?

>> Uh, Clemson University.

Okay. Um I think the problem

are you doing any part-time work?

>> Uh I I do.

>> And how much does that bring you a month? >> I make about depending on the week and like my classes I make between like a 100red and 200 a week.

>> Okay. >> Which pays for groceries and then a little extra. >> Right. But the problem is none of this is touching tuition. And the tuition is the problem because that's what you're taking out loans for. the problem. I Let's go back and identify the problem.

I know there's not a whole lot you can do for the spilled milk, but your school is too expensive for you.

>> That's the problem. And so, you have you're at a really critical point where you're going to keep going or you're going to stop and re-evaluate. And part of you has already stopped because you're calling here, >> but you have to make a very clear decision whether or not you're going to

stop borrowing money or not.

And it has to start there and then from there we can decide now what are our what levers do we want to pull? But the first question is are you ready to stop actually borrowing money?

>> Yes. I'd like to borrow no more money on top of this. >> So let me tell you what I would do. Uh I'm going to walk you through the questions I would ask myself but I'm asking you. Is that cool?

>> Okay. >> All right. Here we go. >> Absolutely. >> What is it that I want to do, Quinn?

What do I want to do? Let's fast forward and assume we have this degree. What would be ideal?

Uh, I'd like to work in the automotive or aerospace industry.

>> Fantastic. And what would an entry- level job look like?

>> Uh, payment wise? >> No. What are you doing?

Uh a a lot of it is like uh doing tests

on uh engines and uh like

uh already produced like products to make like see if they're >> Got it. I don't need to understand it.

I'm walking you through an exercise. But you understand what entry level looks like correct >> in those two fields. Okay. Wonderful. So the question is the next question I would have is can I do those entry- level positions now without the degree?

What's the answer to that?

>> No, >> you cannot do entry level without that mechanical engineering degree.

>> Not an entrylevel engineering job.

>> Okay. Can you do adjacent work that is

similar to it? Uh but but you're you're you're you don't have the degree but you're doing similar functional type work.

Um, I'm not sure about that answer. I

could look into that though. >> All right. Because I'm clueless about your your your fields, I can ask this question. You want to work with engines?

Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And this is this is a mechanical engineering degree, so I know you don't want to be a full-blown mechanic who works on my car, but it's the same function. True or false?

>> Yeah. >> Great. True. Do you have any idea what mechan like could you could you go and do basic mechanic work right now on something?

>> Yes. >> And you have any idea what that pays per hour?

>> Uh I do not. >> That's pretty good.

Pretty good. So now I've arrived at a

solution because I've committed to Jade and I've committed to myself. I'm I'm playing Quinn right now. >> Yep. >> Okay.

Yeah. >> And and I'm not going to debt is not an option. So this is where innovation comes from. By the way, as a mechanical engineer, you should appreciate this point.

>> True innovation happens at its purest and best form as a result of a lack of resources. >> That's right. >> Right. >> It's why everybody loved the old show MacGyver that you're not old enough to know.

But Macgyver was innovative. All right. The guy didn't have it. He was under pressure.

some duct tape and the inside of a big pen and he killed a man and operated on him at the same time and it was innovation and we loved it. Right? It was this. So, so what I'm what I'm challenging you to do right now is is to be innovative. And if I'm you and I've

got $28,000 I got to come up with seems

insurmountable when we put it in the form of a student loan. But when I say, "Wait, can I make two grand a month using my basic mechanical skill set?" The answer is absolutely bargain basement. You can. So, if it's me, I'm going to press pause on Clemson because here's what I know about Clemson.

>> Clemson's going to be there. >> Yeah, that's right. >> When you come up with 28,000. So, my

last point, I want to bring my my partner in here on this one. Uh, I would press pause. I'd go make $28,000

and then I would show back up to Clemson. They'll take your 28,000 whether it's tomorrow or two years from now. And it doesn't take two years to make 28,000. I'm making the case to you that you can make 28,000 in less than 12 months.

>> Yeah, you can do that. >> And go turn a wrench and get dirty and get nasty >> and go, I never want to do this kind of mechanical work, but I'm going to do it because I have to do it so that I can do what I want to do later. And that's what I would do. I would come back with the 28,000.

I'd lay it on the counter for the Clemson folks and go, "Paid it in full. I'm gonna finish my courses. I'm out of here." And now I'm rocking and rolling. >> Yeah.

>> That's what I would do. >> I I think what would you do, >> Ken? I think you're 100% right, Quinn. I think your battle here is with the clock because people think I'm in I'm in college.

I got to do it in four years. I got to do it back to back.

And if you can change that and say the

most important thing is that I get where I want to go. >> That's right. >> And where you want to go is not just you you made it clear. You said where I want to go is not just where I want to end up is not just with a degree.

I want to end up with a degree without a dime more debt. >> And since you said that's the destination, then you have to be willing to invest the time to go the right way to get there. Otherwise, you won't end up there.

more of debt. So that's those are your your guiding lights there is you want to be clear about where you want to end up >> with this degree without a scent more of debt and you've got to wrap your head around the fact that it's going to take time to get there and that's okay.

>> Yeah, I love that. I love that Jay just

nailed the I gave you a here's what I would do tactically, but she gave you the mindset that you're going to have to adopt. You've got to listen to what she said. If you adopt that mindset, you go wait a second, I've now changed the clock. I'm not racing against this

>> concocted societal norm, >> right? >> I'm racing against debt >> now. It's a different race I'm running.

I don't want more debt. And I throw another one at you.

>> Um, how many credit hours are we talking about that you Is it was it two more semesters or three more semesters?

>> Uh, three more semesters.

>> How many hours a year I paid for? Would you be able to do mechanical work and carry the class load?

>> Um, not at a full >> Okay. All right. >> time student load. >> That's fine because I was going to challenge you to keep on, you know, getting a I mean I I got a movie in my mind. >> Tell me what movie, Ken.

>> Um, what is that movie? Uh, >> describe it. >> It's uh Matt Damon and uh Goodwill Hunting. >> Thank you.

You know, I I I I got a hustler in my mind. Thank you. This is what happens when you throw an alleyoop to somebody who can dunk it. She just comes in and broke the broke.

She just ripped the rim off. Uh, love that. But that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about >> bluecollar attitude.

I'm going to work my way through this.

>> while we're doing it. And so we got a little grease under our fingernails.

>> That's the price of admission. So chin up. new mindset that Jade gave you and decide today, I'm going to finish this and make it a new race. I'm going to race against the societal norm.

>> Come on, Quinn. >> Uh I we believe in you, man. So, go do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Or you can click the link in the show notes if you are listening via podcast and YouTube. Paul is up in Washington.

Paul, how can we help? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, about five months ago, my wife and I took uh FPU and we've been working on Baby Step 2.

Um, so about two years ago, I took out

$100,000 heliloc against our primary

residence in order to make down payments on three different rental houses.

Um is it was an idea to you know for

retirement plan was to try to accumulate a bunch of rental houses. Um

we're seeing problems with that. They've not been cash flowing well. One of them especially that one's for sale right now. >> Good. >> When it sells we're going to pay off um we have about $17,000

in um like between a car loan and credit cards. We're going to pay that off. And then we're also going to I was thinking it would be wise to have a six-month emergency fund for the rental houses um

to cover their mortgages in case the rental income doesn't. Um

>> how many rental houses are there?

>> Um currently there's three, but one of them is for sale. We close on it next week, >> but none of them are cash flowing positively on a consistent basis.

Correct. >> Not consistently. No. Are you are you uh

do you have equity in all three?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> Um we have Okay.

>> Let me let me address something before the call gets going too further.

>> We're going to tell you what to do, but I want to go and address something you just kind of said. This the emergency fund, the six-month emergency fund is not there to cover the rent uh the the

rental income on these homes. That's not what the emergency fund is for. It's for actual emergencies that affect your life

that are that are your expenses, your your income, you know, your bills. You you want to cover your expenses. It's for your personal expenses, not for your rental homes.

>> Okay. >> So, that's a not that's a non-starter for us. >> That's right. Okay, Ken, I'm glad you clarified that because I that is so important. Um, what it sounds like is you could benefit from some simplification here. Am I >> Is that fair?

It is fair. Um, >> okay. That's question. That's question one. So that you said that was fair.

Question two would be >> like you said these these properties aren't making you any money. Right.

>> Right. >> So my since they're not making money and

since you could benefit from some simplicity, I would recommend selling them since they're all worth more.

>> Mhm. >> And you could actually make some cash on these things. uh get out of these $100,000 of HELOCs and obviously, you

know, clear all your other personal debt and kind of start this idea over from scratch and just build it the right way >> because >> yeah, >> if you do that and you're able to use some of this money cuz I I mean, we could go through it if you want. If you were to sell all three, what would you end up with after fees and everything?

Um, I think if selling all three, I think we would clear the $100,000 HELOC

and the 17K in debt. I think that is about it. Walk away. We would be at zero

debt except for our primary residence.

>> Tell him what he's won, Jay. >> Well, you've won peace and now you've won the ability to focus in on your security, which is your primary residence. What do you owe on that?

>> Uh, shoot and No. What are we at on

that? I'm sorry. I'm not prepared for that. >> That's okay. Around 100 and a half, something around there.

>> 160. >> Okay. 160. And then what's you guys' income without the I mean, your properties weren't making anything, but what's your income?

>> Um, after like take-home, I think we're

at about 110. >> Okay. So, with that income and with what you owe on the mortgage, I mean, with a little intensity or with just being intentional, you could clear your own mortgage out if you wanted to. very very quickly. And then now you can start this real estate dream if you even wanted to.

Like this might have been your last I don't know, maybe you're sick of it at this point, but now you could go back in and say, "Okay, next time we do this, we're going to do it for cash. We're going to move a lot slower, and we're going to make sure that no matter what, we're not putting oursel in a risky spot, and we're going to be making money on whatever we do." >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's been the gist of how we've been feeling. I just uh it

was hard to let go of the idea that, you know, down the line we would have all this rental income, but like I'm afraid we won't even make it there.

>> Not now. But to Jade's point, if you clear all this and now you go about it the right way, >> you you still have time. How old are you?

>> Uh 44. >> And what do you have in retirement?

>> Um about 30K.

>> Okay. So we got to build that. >> Yeah. >> I am not thinking about houses.

Let me tell you why. Just to just to kind of if if I was in your shoes, this may help your stomach and your heart sell these three homes. Here's why. >> Okay, the three homes, let's say that you guys were uh cash flow positive, which you're not on these things, but um let's just say, you know, because we we hear this call all the time and somebody will say, "Well, we're clearing we're clearing about $600 to $800 a month on these things." Or or let's go to a th000.

Let's do a round number.

All right, that's $12,000 a year.

>> Okay, that doesn't include expenses, right? That home repairs.

>> $12,000. I would rather be investing in

the investment strategy that Ramsay teaches than I would be fiddling around with houses, especially in your shoes.

You're not what I would call completely behind the eight-ball. You're a little bit behind at your age with only 30,000, but the baby steps is the play for you.

So, you get the you get this debt out of the way by selling these houses. And now we attack baby step three. Go to three to six months of your expenses. And then we think, all right, now we're all baby step four in the sense of we're we're now 15% fully uh funded retirement

accounts. And uh let's see what happens above and beyond that. But I I just think for a lot of people, the rental house of income, it just looks and

smells and sounds way better than it actually is. >> It's a lot of work. A lot of work for

$12,000.

>> It will never be me, Ken. It's too much.

>> I'm not doing it. >> Yeah. No. >> On the other hand, I look at my little dashboard every month and I go, "Oh, look what the stock market did today." >> That's true. That's the true passive income. >> Money. I was snoring. You know, there's

like I got a guy in the audience. Thumbs up to me and he's a you're you're a fellow snorer, but we're making money while we snore, bro. >> Yes, sir. That's the play.

>> Yeah. Everybody Everybody talks about real estate like it's some form of passive >> Yeah. >> income. It's so not passive.

>> Um but I think I mean I don't know what your wife says about this. You guys have to go home and talk about it. But I think to solve for the two things that you said, which is, hey, it's fair to say, I could benefit from some simplicity. And the truth is, these things aren't making me any money anyway. But you are losing, you know, your peace over them. So, >> yeah, your blood pressure is going to drop. >> You're going to sleep better. Uh, the baby steps is the plan for you, Paul.

It's not too late. But I would say at 41, >> this is the time to make this move.

>> And let me just be fair. Let me because because somebody's listening and going, "Gosh, you know, anytime somebody calls in with real estate, you guys are telling them to sell it." That's not necessarily true. If he had called in and said, "Hey, I've got these three properties. They're killing it, you know, banging." I would have maybe suggested selling one possibly to clear some debt.

And I would have said, "Yeah, keep the others. Here's the plan to pay them off." Like there there is a time where somebody calls in and they've gone and done what they're going to do. And it's not always about telling them to, you know, fold everything and start from scratch. That's So, just put that that's actually a great point.

It depends on a person's financial position. I know some of you going, "Well, Ken, okay, my little rant about the $12,000." That's okay if you're no debt.

>> And your retirement's great. And this is something we're going we're trying to pay this off as quick as we can. And now we're not doing it for the $12,000 a year. We're doing this for a house that, you know, is going to be worth 400 grand and we're going to pay it off in a year.

Now, that's real money, right? That's 400 grand cash that I could unload.

That's the idea. So, we're not anti-real estate. It's just does it fit the baby steps? Does it fit your financial situation? That's the question.

[Music]

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[Music]

Hey, if y'all are enjoying the show, if it's helping you, would you help us? You can do that by liking the show, whether you're listening on podcast or on YouTube, subscribing on any of those platforms, and of course, share, share, share. That helps us so much. There's no marketing strategy in the world that competes with the good old-fashioned word of mouth, and that's how you can help us.

So, thank you for those that do, and we'd love for you to continue to help us there. Mary is up now in Boston, Massachusetts.

>> Hi. Yeah. Um, I really would like to retire, but I'm very nervous about it.

I'm not sure I can afford it.

>> Okay. Give us some numbers so we can figure this out with you.

>> Okay. Well, I'm still working.

>> Um, I work full-time. I'm 71.

>> What's your What is your What is your income?

>> It's about 100,000. >> Great. What do you do?

>> I'm sorry. >> What do you do for a living?

>> Sales. S. >> What are you selling?

Um, a logical surprise.

>> Nice. Good for you. Is that I'm just curious because this is awesome. I think you like you're the hero of today's show. Um, that is so fantastic. Still be

crushing it. Is it straight commission or is it a a base plus commission?

>> Straight salary. >> Straight. Oh, salary. Okay, good. Great.

Good for you. >> Okay. All right. So, walk us through what you have. >> Yeah.

>> Well, I have about a million and a half in a 401k.

Okay, >> I have about a million and a half in stocks, probably a little more than that.

>> Mary, I've got great news. This is breaking news. It's coming in my right ear right now. I'm getting this fresh from James right here. Breaking news. He says you're fine, Mary. >> I mean, I >> You have $3 million.

>> I was getting out my calculator like we were going to have real work to do.

>> I was nervous for you. >> A lot of expenses, though. >> What are your expenses? >> Okay. Yeah, let's hear it.

Well, I have two houses, two cars. I mean, they're paid for, but then taxes, insurance, >> Mary, >> you only need one car, so sell the other car, but it's not costing you.

>> Well, they're in different states.

>> Okay. Well, >> why are they different states? You alo you got a you got two homes in two states? >> Yes. >> Are the homes paid for?

>> Yes. >> What are the states? One is one your your wintering home and one is your summering home?

>> Yes. Okay, Mary, America is about to get

mad at you. You are truly living the dream, Mary. This is We're having a little bit of fun, but in all honesty, you're in great shape. You have two paid for homes. >> Uhhuh. >> You have two paid for cars.

>> What are these expenses that you said you have that are so so high that 3

million as it continues to grow is not going to be enough for you? What are we missing?

Well, um I don't know. It's about 45,000

a year the expenses for insurance and that's without any emergencies.

>> So insuranceances on all your assets.

>> I don't get I don't get any a pension,

>> right? >> But my guess is you're going to have a pretty nice social security benefit is my guess. >> And you'll draw from your account.

>> 40 4400.

>> Sweetheart, how much does it take for you to live every month? cuz I know you know the answer to this, Mary. What is your topline expense for everything? All

in food, gas, clothing, everything.

>> Well, it's about um I don't know.

>> Oh, come on. >> You don't have a mortgage.

>> It's just you. You're not married, right? >> What do you need to live?

>> Take an educated guess of what you need every month to live comfortably. How much money? >> Probably about 4,000.

>> 4,000. Okay. You're going to have a social security payment of $4,400.

So, we've got that and then you've got $3 million that is continuing to grow.

>> Jade, I I don't think I'm getting through to Mary. She's in great shape.

>> You're in great shape. There's there, in the words of Ken Coleman, this is this is a nothing burger. >> This is a nothing burger. Yes. There's >> nothing there. >> This has got ketchup, mustard, pickle, lettuce, the whole it's the works. You are great, Mary. >> Great job. Do you know how many people uh how many people who are in their 20s

wish they had a job that paid them $100,000? >> That would chew their right leg off on camera to have your portfolio.

>> Yeah, you're doing so well.

>> But I'm going to I'm going to lose that, you know, when I retire. >> That's fine. Yeah, you're going to >> What are you losing?

>> You will lose the job.

>> No, no, no, you won't. You won't. You will lose the job because you will choose, hey, I don't want to work anymore. Then you can look over to any of these retirement accounts and say, "I'd like to make $100,000 a year, please." And they're going to go, "Okay, you can afford that." >> And by the way, you've got that.

You can pull >> How long would that actually last your whole life >> because you're not touching Let's Okay, let's teach for a minute because I want to make sure you understand this.

sounds like you do, you should be making on average annualized rate of return,

you should be somewhere around the 9 10% mark. Okay? That is when you take all the years that you've had it invested and average those rates of return, it should be around 10%. Okay? So, that means let's just take a round number like, I don't know, $1 million. If you've been making 10% on that, what is

10%? $100,000.

Does that make sense? So, you should be able to live off the interest alone without touching the nest egg. Does that make sense? If it doesn't, I'll explain it another way. >> Well, let's let's use real numbers. You've got a total of you've got over $3 million in retirement accounts. That's what you told us, >> right? And I do have some CDs and cash.

I'm sure you do. >> Oh, listen. None of this is a surprise. I think you got more money buried in your backyard than most people make in a year. I think there's probably that level. >> Sometimes they do. Sometimes I do bury it in the backyard. >> I know you do. The point, Mary, is all

these things. >> If you really lived off of 10%, you could take a a $300,000, you know, salary. Well, that's exactly right. >> There's we you we would account for inflation and we would account for, you know, I don't know if this is in Roth or what it's in. So, there are some things to consider here, but none of it none of those details are going to drain your

nest eggs. None of those details are going to cause you to be even close to broke. Okay? I I would go on I would

stand on business today and say, "If you retired today and took your same salary, you would be fine." Now, if you don't believe me, that's okay. I would encourage you to get with a Smart Vtor and let them show you this. >> But here's what we haven't discussed yet, Mary. Okay? Yeah.

>> The three million you have right now, just the three million. You got more than three million, but at this point we're there's no need to get into >> closer to four. >> Yeah. Oh, sure. Of course. Let's just say three for a moment. Okay. Based on what Jade told you earlier with the historical return of the stock market that Jade laid out, you realize that you're a a young and vibrant 71. Seven

years from now at 78, Jade, you want to tell her what that 3 million is going to be worth? >> Yeah. So we call it like a rule of seven. A lump sum generally at a rate at the right rate of return will double every seven years. >> So that means you're with you got six million. >> Yeah. >> And the truth is you got four. So let's just have some fun, Mary.

>> So 8 million >> $8 million at 78. I mean this is like

this is like you and your fried green tomatoes annual trip. We're blowing it in Barbados. We're having a blast.

>> Like you are way ahead of the game. You

should be what you should have done was called Ken and I to invite us to your retirement celebration. >> I will MC it and Jade will sing. Yeah, it's a it's a combo. It's a great com and all we asked for is uh fourstar accommodations and travel expenses.

It's all we asked for. >> That's right. That's right. >> No, Mary, we're having fun.

>> The market hasn't been that great though. What that it's going to double in seven years? >> No, Mary, this is this you can actually go you can Google this one. >> Yeah, this is real mom.

You can really Google this.

This is the historical uh path of the stock market over its entire inception.

>> Okay. Uh this is a rate of return that you can expect. But even if you didn't get the 9 to 10% that Jade, all right, let's go conservative. >> Yeah. >> Let's go 6%. Run your numbers on 6%. And

here's what we really want you to do. Do you have somebody that manages your money? A licensed professional?

>> No, I do it on my own. Oh my gosh, Mary,

you are such a rock star. I mean, >> the superlatives, I can't summon enough.

Okay, here's what I want you to do. >> I don't want to get on Mary's bad side.

>> We're going to put you on hold. And Kelly is amazing. And Kelly, let's make sure she gets to the Smart Investor Pro section of our website at ramseyolutions.com.

And and I want you Kelly will walk you through this, but I want you to interview three or four or five in your area. And Mary, I know you got a gut.

>> And go with your gut on the one you trust the most. and help. Let them tell you what they think your portfolio is going to turn into and where you are. And then if you choose to have them work with you, great. But trust me, these folks are affiliated with us in the sense that uh they believe what we believe and they'll back what Jay and I are saying up and show you real numbers.

So, thank you for calling, Mary. And can we just >> slow the whole audience is clapping for Mary. This is what we do. This is why we do it. Mary, you're the poster child.

You're a You won.

[Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsay Show, where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us. I'm Ken Coleman. The incomparably fabulous Jade

Warshaw joins me. The phone number is88255225.

Mike is up in Illinois. Mike, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good morning. Uh, so just had a question for you guys on we are new to

you guys' program and I'm talking really new like maybe three, four, four days.

>> Welcome aboard, sir.

>> Yeah, we don't we don't really have a lot. And I'm not even gonna say like this is even overwhelming for us because it's it's truly not.

>> Um we're in a pretty good spot I feel.

>> Um we're we're about 150 a year um between the two of us and we we got

about 45,000 in our cars, 57,000 on our

house. We got really lucky on our house.

So >> yeah, so we're good. Um we do have some credit card about um between 7 and 10 and we got some medical about four. Um

but we did some home improvement. Um and

we took out borrowed against oursel. We took the advice of uh somebody else.

>> Um and borrowed against our 401k.

>> Um so we have payments

>> uh about 25,000.

>> You're going to love the tax on that, pal. >> Yeah, I know. >> That's going to feel great.

>> We do have it paid down um to maybe

20ish, I'm guessing.

So, we're we're just at a 401k loan, so

we're paying that back. But my question was is because we want to attack we want to tackle all this pretty aggressive, you know, following the program. Um,

should we take the hit on the 401k,

get rid of that big monthly that we have there, and then apply that $1,000 a

month towards um

>> paying everything else off more aggressive >> and then put the money back and then then put the money back quickly. You know what I mean? Um it just seems like we the way we've been kind of running the numbers is if we if we were to take away from use that money from the 401k the monthly part of it we would be able to go really aggressive >> and really pay this down because we're super excited to get towards the finan the the investing part.

>> Are you familiar with our debt snowball?

I know you're three or four days in so that's why I'm asking. Are you familiar with the debt snowball?

>> Yeah. you know, and I think so familiar with the Ramsay name, just didn't really know how >> that's fine. >> So, Jade, let Jade let Jade coach you through what exactly we would do if we were in your shoes. >> Yeah. I'm going to simplify this for you because uh I'm going to go back and kind

of assess. Can I can I just take a moment and go back and assess >> do another diagnostic? >> Yeah. Because then then it will help us be in the right mindset to talk about the solution. The problem is, you know, you make a really great income, you and your wife combined. And the sad part about this is you didn't realize it. And

so you let people trick you into thinking you needed to use debt to do all of the things that honestly you could have done with your income cuz it's so great. And the fact that your mortgage is only $57,000.

And so I kind of want you to get your head around the fact that your income and your money is real money and it's better than borrowed money. And somewhere in your brain, you started thinking that borrowed money was better than your actual money. And I really want you to spend some time thinking about that because I never want you to be here again. Um, and

>> just uh not to interrupt you there real quick, but the only thing that kind of put that put us in that is I I guess I didn't say in the beginning is um I went through a divorce um 10 years ago. So I I did have child support that was pretty a lot of child support, which is pretty substantial. Not complaining about it.

You know what I mean? My kids. Uh >> um but that that did play a huge part in

us um you know financially.

>> Sure it played a huge part but it didn't make you take out debt. You still chose to do that. So >> 100%. You're right. >> I just want you to go forward from today going you know what like my dollars are better than borrowed dollars. And yeah, to Ken's point, let's let's walk this thing out because if you have something like a 401k uh loan, if you owe money to

the IRS, that business is jumping to the top of the list. So, typically what we would tell people to do is list your debt smallest to largest. But there are a couple of exceptions and like I said owing money to the federal government is one of them and having something like a heliloc is or I'm sorry having something like a 401k loan is one of them because the implications around that are very very big. And so for this for this I

would say to you like you got to understand every minute that you don't pay this back is a interest that you're missing out on. every moment that you don't pay this back means if something happens and your job is on the line, it's going to become paid due in full 12 months after you, you know, were let go. So, there's a lot here uh around that. So, I would I

would get in full gear on this and start getting it knocked out. Now, the good news is you've got 150K of income, but are you guys on a budget?

>> Yeah. So, um we kind of use a calendar

system. We kind of write everything out on due dates and everything on our calendar. >> Good. Uh my wife's she's she's pretty on top of it. So we we do know exactly

what's due when, where, and we pay weeks

ahead. >> Good. And >> so how much are you guys putting extra on debt every single month?

>> Um not a whole lot.

>> Why?

>> You have you don't have hardly a mortgage and you make this great income.

>> What are those cars? >> Yeah, I wonder what those two car payments. >> Yeah, I think the the car payments are pretty high. Um, uh, we got one that's 600 and some changeish and then another one that's four four something, I believe.

>> Listen, it's not as bad as it's not as bad as it could be. That's not what's taking your income. What's taking your income is you guys aren't you're not on a budget. You're still spending a lot of money in a lot of areas. It's not the 4,000 of medical debt. It's not the cuz I can guess what the 10,000 of credit cards payment is. It's you guys are

living like 150,000 is the be all end

all. And I think that's what it is. And I'm sure you're still contributing to retirement. Am I am I right?

>> Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah, we're doing uh >> I'm doing the match and then I'm I'm doing just the match right now and then my wife's my wife's doing 10%.

>> So let let Ken and I give you a rundown because you did say you're brand new to the baby steps. So let's just dial it in. And from here you're going to get to choose. Do you want to do it?

Do you want to not do it? And that's your choice to make with you and your wife later. So, what we would say is baby step one when you're in your situation, baby step one is, hey, I just I need to go down to $1,000 saved. If I can just keep $1,000 aside, that's my, you know, quick rainy day fund.

But every other money needs to go to baby step two, which is paying off all the debt. And I told you before, it's list from smallest to largest with the two exceptions. And then we're there.

investing right now. I'm not uh putting too much uh into my withholding right now. I'm putting just enough because I don't want that tax refund. I want that money in my pocket every month. So those are quick ways to make sure we have all the money. And a lot of people don't like when we say pause investing, Ken, because they feel like they're missing out on time. And they are missing out on time. But the thought process of that is

if I have Ken, if I have a bucket of if I have a picture of water here and I have I don't know, you have one, two, three, four, uh, four or five different glasses of debt. If I put a drop in each one, it's going to take me forever to fill up those glasses. But if I just take all the income in my picture and pour it on one, I'm going to fill up that glass very quickly and it's going to be gone. Okay?

So that's why this works that way, Casey. And then we can go on to steps three and four and on down the list later, but right now one and two is big. And something tells me he might have some savings somewhere that he needs to tap into. >> And I'd even We're running out of time, but I I would tell you that uh look at those cars.

Let's see if we can get that $1,000 as well. So that's what we're doing here.

Thanks for listening.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

>> All right, Casey is joining us now in Wyoming. Casey, how can we help?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm

trying to get some input or advice on I

started building my building a home on a

property that I own and um I'm getting

to the point where it's getting difficult to continue cash flowing it.

And I'm debating on uh just continuing

down that path of cash flowing it or if I should take out a construction loan for uh what I need to do to >> How much more do you need to finish?

>> Um probably $100,000 to to finish out

where I'm at. >> So 100 grand is what you need to either cash flow, which is going to take you longer, or your idea of a construction loan gets it to you and you can finish this house by what time?

If I took the loan out, I could probably finish it, I would think, next spring. I mean, we're heading into where I'm I'm doing all this all the work myself physically. So, >> and so if you cash flow it, how long will it estimate to take?

>> Um, so probably probably another two

years. And that that's kind of where the >> Okay. And is this >> where the difficulty is? >> I get it. And I'm digging a little bit here to get full perspective. So, is this your dream home and you guys are already in a home that you can easily afford? What I'm trying to figure out here is is there financial pressure to finish this house? Like, what is the status of this house?

>> So, I I bought the acreage. It's a it's

40 acres, and I bought the acorage 4 and

1/2 years ago um with the plan of just

moving out there and building the house over a couple of year period. And then some things in life changed and um most

of the money that I had saved up for the project uh went away. So, >> okay. So, the plan was to live out there on the 40 acres in some type of a temporary situation.

>> Right. And that and that's where I am now. I'm in an old it's an old single wide trailer on the property. So, I'm building I'm building, you know, right next door to where I'm at. Okay. But it's it's just me and my my two kids and

uh on that that little trailer. So yeah,

it's just getting to the point where a couple I've been doing it for three years and a couple more years.

>> So So essentially the only So this would be like taking out a mortgage of 100 grand is what I'm hearing. >> Mhm. >> Right. Plus I I do owe some on the land itself. I didn't buy the land outright.

>> What do you owe on the land? >> I I I owe 130 on the land. Okay. So, if

you were So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to I'm assuming you know the numbers, but what do we what's our what will be our combined I'm going to call this a combined house payment. That's what I'm looking at here because the land and the home.

>> What would be that combined mortgage payment? >> Well, it it'd be a a 15-year um rate on

250,000 give or take. Right. >> And can you afford that at 25% of your take-home pay?

Yeah, I don't I don't think the payment is is that big a deal.

No. Is it underneath our 25% threshold?

So 25% of >> right right at >> Okay. >> Then then I don't have an issue with this because it's like a it's like buying a home and I don't think living in this trailer with the two kids is sustainable for much longer. So yeah,

this is not what we would consider an irresponsible home purchase. That's essentially you're doing it a different way, but it's the same idea.

>> Am I right, Jay? I want to make sure I'm here. >> Yeah, right on. >> I guess there's Well, because I am not a

contractor, I can't qualify for I would need to hire a general contractor and get somebody else involved in my business to they won't loan. And it

makes sense. They're not going to loan somebody that's just building a house. I

totally know what he's saying. So, you bring a general contractor.

>> What's your problem with that?

>> You don't want a general contractor. Is that the biggest problem? You want to do this all your own? Is that the biggest thing? >> I mean, that's a big thing. And and also, I mean, there's I guess there's a pride component of it where I had a plan to cash flow building >> I had a plan to dunk a basketball in a game when I was in high school and it turns out I 5'9 and couldn't jump.

>> So, I had to deal with it and become a pass first point guard. Life throws you things. No, I'm just being honest here.

Follow the pride. I don't care that you want to finish it yourself. >> Well, I do because here's the thing. I do because >> there's there's that >> because the the financial side of it, there's not a wrong answer. If you want to cash flow, cash flow. If you want to get the mortgage, get the mortgage. There's not a wrong one. Cash is better.

But for a time, we would have said, "Yeah, go ahead and get the mortgage." But then you turned around and said, "Well, here's the thing. I want to build this thing. I don't want to hire a general contractor." So, now we're talking about other things. We're talking about values.

And so if you say to me, you have to then decide what's it worth to me to have the timeline. Do I want to sacrifice timeline to have the values I want or do I want the values at the sake of the timeline?

>> I hate my kids and hate my life all to keep my pride intact.

>> I mean, >> that's the thing is the kids don't really get a vote in it. They're >> I'm not talking about the kids say they'd rather have the new house. He's talking about do you hate the kids?

>> I'm talking about you, brother. You're the one that's on the phone and you're the one that talked about everybody heard it on your voice. I don't I'm with you 100%. The kids don't get a vote at all. I don't care what your kids think. I'm with you on that. But I think you're the one going I don't think I can stay in this trailer with these kids. How old are they? Am I right or am I wrong?

>> The the kids are six and eight. So, >> you didn't answer young. They're not they're not going to know if it's too

old. They're not really All right, let me let me come at this a trailer. Can you live with these kids in this trailer for two more years?

>> Well, you can do anything. I mean, my >> That's what I said. You just >> kids in a little two-bedroom house. >> That's what I'm saying.

You have to decide. Only you can decide cuz Ken will say, "Hey, and my if it were Ken Coleman, he would say, I'm taking the loan." >> Well, if it were me, I'd never even be in a trailer on 40 acres. I don't like to sleep on anything less than 700 thread count. I, you know, I'm not an outdoorsy sleep guy.

All right? you know, I'll be outdoors and then we take a shower and we stay in a nice room. But I I here's what I'm getting at. This is up to you.

I just walked you into it and you went, "Well, I can I can do anything for two years." Well, then there's your answer. Yeah. I think you just want to cash if to Jade's point, your pride is like in building this thing yourself and it's really important to you, I'm not going to poo poo that. I said swallow it and get the house done.

But that's when I thought you were angst about staying in this trailer. If you're going, I can stay in the trailer. I can do anything, Ken, for two years. Then I think that's your answer.

So you build it yourself >> and then you and then you take two years and the kids are six and eight.

You know, I do whatever you want. It's your 40 acres. I was trying to like say, >> yeah, I hear you. >> It's okay for you to take out a loan, but this is before you threw the it's important to me to build it myself.

Again, something I can't even process. I

can barely put gas in my car. >> Do you have tools? >> Do you have any tools? >> I do, but it's limited to the socket wrenches. The I got a cool little set of those L wrenches. And >> wait, no, that's the stuff that comes >> I do have a uh I got one of those little battery powered uh drills that has a

Phillips head and then a a normal, >> but I hire other people.

>> It's called a flathead. >> What is it? >> Flathead. >> See, >> that's all I know. I'm just making that up. That's all I know. I don't know.

>> I'm gonna say hire a contractor.

>> Yes. >> Because I got nightmares in my mind of you building this house and >> but you know, look, man, you're you're a man. You live in Wyoming on 48 acres.

This is something this is a different paradigm for me. I go to Wyoming in a postcard. >> Yes. I go, "Oh, that's that's that's nice." >> I go to Wyoming when I watch What was that Kevin Cosner show? I don't know.

>> What was the show that was big? >> A show. >> Remember the >> Oh, Yellowstone. >> Yeah, that's the only time I go.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I love that. But see, I'm in my I'm in my living room with a nice uh blanket, >> you know, hot cup of tea.

>> Kevin Cosner's roughing it. He's cold.

>> And you're like, "Oo, look at him." >> I'm like, "It will never be me." >> I get a little shiver and I tell Stacey to turn the heat up.

One of my favorite things about you is when you told me about your your robe and how comfortable your robe was.

>> My robe is next level.

>> It goes all the way to the ankles.

Restoration hardware. Super plush. Uh

it's great, folks. It's like it's like wearing a Snuggy, but you have freedom.

>> Yeah. And >> I can move my arms and legs and

>> Yes. It's a great robe. I think every woman should buy my robe for their man

in their life. restoration hardware. >> Robes over tools. Robes over tools.

>> Which one are you going to use more?

>> It's pretty easy. I'm using my robe 365.

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[Music]

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Esther joins us now in South Carolina.

Esther, how can we help?

>> Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm just trying to um figure out a game

plan. Um, I'm thinking about leaving my

husband. I don't work. Um, we have two kids. Um, and being a single mom, um, is

potentially in the future for me. I'm just trying to figure out how meant to navigate this.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Um, you're not working. You're

thinking of leaving your husband. Tell us more about that part. Is there danger?

>> Um, I wouldn't say there's imminent danger. We've had um a domestic violence issue before. Um it's when I was pregnant with my first. >> Um my first is going to be two. Um in a

couple of weeks and I literally just had a newborn on Saturday.

>> On Saturday.

>> On Saturday. Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. Okay.

>> And um I moved from the UK about 3 years ago.

>> We've been married for about four years.

Um and I've only worked like short stretches of time. Um, since being here,

um, I'm in the medical field. I'm a medical professional, but >> just with having the babies and the, um, exams, I haven't had like the time to just physically just do my exams to be a

pharmacist over here. So, I haven't been >> Oh, got it. >> Working. >> How much time and how much money would it take to get those exams done and essentially become qualified or current?

Um there's one exam that happens um

every October over here. Um maybe about 3,000. I've literally only got about 700

in savings. Um but I just don't

I my my dad was abusive. It's something I work on for sure, but I I don't know whether to call this abusive just because um I I'm sorry. Just because I'm not getting um beat down 24/7, but

>> of course. Hey, >> I need to I need to figure out something. >> Okay, first off, yeah, you're right. Um,

domestic violence doesn't mean you're getting beat down 24/7. It can be

>> It doesn't have to be to that extreme um to be domestic violence.

>> Okay. Um, I want to know what's going on

because when I asked you earlier, you said not imminent, but then you went on to say that um, you know, when you were

pregnant, there was an incident, which to me is is is pretty crazy. But I just

want to validate to you that any behavior that is in they're attempting to intimidate you. They're attempting attempting to isolate you, frighten you, terrorize you, threaten you, um hurt you, w like any of that, even if it's just a threat, okay, that's not normal and you shouldn't be in that in uh >> Yeah. >> environment, especially with babies. But even without, you shouldn't you you don't tolerate that more than once.

>> Do you have anywhere you can go before like let's forget about the legal separation or divorce piece. Let's just say if if you're going to take some of these steps before we talk about the finance stuff, do you have friends, family uh in the area that that you

could uh flee to and and be safe with?

>> I mean, I've got the only family I've got are the in-laws. Um it can be a bit difficult because of the first incident.

>> Well, yeah. >> I don't know whether it's a cultural thing. I got a lot of the blame for it.

>> Yeah, you can't. >> No, no, they don't. No, I can just tell you right now, they're not part of it.

So the answer is you don't have anybody.

>> What about a church? Have you gone to church? Have you visited any churches in the area? >> I've got a church. Um again they were they were aware of the first situation.

>> That's fine. >> Um they were a bit hit and miss. So I haven't after the first situation happened. I just kind of kept myself to myself and kind of you know >> Yeah.

Sure. >> been been safe in the way I've reacted to things so I don't get myself into a predicament. Um but um >> yeah, but I don't like that you're feeling like you're the one getting yourself into the predicament. It's not you, it's him.

And I want you to when you get off this call, a I want you to call the hotline for domestic violence and domestic abuse. I I think you need to call and talk to someone because I understand if you don't want to share with us what's exactly going on, but you need to share with someone that's going to be able to advise you.

>> he sounds volatile to me >> and it sounds like you can't. Is that right? >> Yes. Okay. Yes, he definitely is.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. And you you're not in any

position to be able You never were, but

now with a a newborn on Saturday, you can't defend yourself from this person.

and they clearly don't care if you were pregnant, if you have a newborn on your hip, so you have to go someplace else.

And I hate that for you because you're supposed to be able to have a newborn and come home to a safe environment.

>> And I'm so sorry that >> that's not the case.

>> Okay, >> I'm so sorry. Here's the thing. You get you you call the number, >> you find a shelter, >> and then you get to a safe place. Then your brain can kind of open up a little bit because you're safe. Yeah.

>> Um, we're going to make sure to put you in contact with a financial coach and we're going to make sure that they talk with you, help you figure out what's next. >> Um, >> do you have Yeah. And speaking of what's next, I do want to try to give you, and Jade's right, getting you safe and allowing your brain to slow down and function to its best is is huge. But you

did call and say, "How do I financially prepare for this?" And um

>> if I had if I were in your shoes,

I would be asking friends or family in the UK. That's where your base has been.

>> Yeah. >> And I personally would have zero pride issues with asking for $3,000. Mhm.

>> Because if $3,000 was what I needed to

become a pharmacist in the United States where you can make really good money, have fabulous benefits for those littles, >> I would be I'd have no problem asking for $3,000. And I wouldn't say borrow. I didn't I didn't say borrow. >> I need to have it.

>> I We don't ask. We don't borrow.

>> If you could find, you know, can you >> do you have people in the UK, real friends? >> Okay. All of my family.

>> Okay. >> Well, I believe we could scrape $3,000 together out of family who love you and for the sole purpose. Okay. in the situation when it's right >> uh to to finish out this qualification, get a current on your on your stuff. And that's not too much to ask. And don't borrow it.

This is you're going to ask people, I need you to help me. I have a very

specific need. By the way, a really good church would step up in that situation as well. >> It would. >> And and and so because this gives you freedom. I'm just wondering if you don't

I mean I think what Ken said is a great place to start. I'm just going to tag on to that list. Is it better for you to go back to the UK temporarily to be around?

>> Can you take the kids to the UK or is there some type I I I this is outside of my legal knowledge. >> That's true. That's true. It doesn't want to. That's a good point.

>> So I'm a little nervous with that. U >> Yeah, that's a good point.

>> You know what I mean? Now it makes complete common sense.

>> Yeah. I just don't know legally.

>> No, you're right. You're right. >> I think that's a dangerous situation. I would not do that. >> Okay. Yeah. Bad plan. >> Given that she's not a US citizen, >> so you don't want to complicate things.

But I I think um safe first.

>> Okay. Safe.

>> Uh then we work on stability,

whatever that looks like short term. That means if you're working at a Walmart, you know, and there's an old lady in the church who willing to wash the kids. I mean, because you got a challenge with child care, which is very expensive. So, we got to get safe. We got to get stable.

But I am trying to encourage you that

you becoming a pharmacist as quickly as

you can. >> That's going to set you free >> and in getting hired is going to be a game changer. You can, mama, you can take care of those babies on a pharmacist salary >> and you and you'll be fine.

>> Just promise us you'll leave that environment. Promise us you won't go to the in-laws cuz they're not for you.

>> That's right. >> And he's there.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And just call us anytime, Esther.

Truly, >> anytime. Don't Don't lose contact with us because we want to follow you. >> Hang on the line. Kelly's amazing. She's going to get you plugged in where we can plug you in. So, hang on.

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>> Okay. Today's question comes from Sydney in Colorado. She says, "My husband and I

are relatively new to the baby steps, and I wonder if it's normal to find it hard to transition from using credit cards and thinking you have all this extra money to not using credit cards and realizing you don't have as much money as you thought you had left over every month. If it is normal, does that feeling quickly go away or am I just going to be uncomfortable for the next few years?" Oh my gosh, what a great question, Ken. >> Actually, really good. You know, I think that Sydney, what you're feeling is completely normal because the truth is, >> yeah, when you're on a credit card, it is a safety blanket, right?

crutch. And what happens when you have a crutch, Ken? You know this. If you if you wear >> lean on it, >> you lean on it. If you wear a cast for too long, if you sit in a chair for too long, the muscles, they atrophy. You know what I'm saying? And before you know it, doing things that should be normal range of motion, normal things become more difficult because you have atrophied that muscle. So, it's the same thing with your money. It is a skill and

a uh a learned skill to be able to

manage your money, the actual money that comes home in your check. And when you lean on credit cards, you can be willy-nilly, right? You don't have to be as on it. you know that if you break the budget it's okay because I've got this extra you know the limit is here and I can go beyond and there's no real guard rails there. So I think what's happening is for the first time you're like, "Oh, >> I have boundaries." >> Yeah. >> I have limits and I must depend on my

financial, you know, fortitude and my own kind of willpower to stay within those boundaries. And yeah, that's a skill to learn over time. And I think that you're on the right track. And it could take a while.

You know, we do say that when people build a budget can, you know, what is it 90 days before they feel like >> I got it. I can stick to this. I can start to live like this. And you know, for you, I don't know how far out of bounds you guys were going, but >> yeah, it's a lifestyle change.

>> That's right. And and I would I would just give you give yourself grace because everybody's different.

>> As to their discipline. I know some people that they they get this Ramsay plan. They're like, "Oh, >> got it." Yeah. >> And they're just such system discipline people that it's just like, "Okay, I'm in lock step." And then there's other people that it takes a while. And I here's what I would tell you that once you finally get over using credit cards,

what I found to be true for us years and

years ago, we finally cut ours up and that whole deal. And >> um it's kind of like when you give up something uh food-wise.

>> Oh yeah. >> And what happens is your appetite changes. >> Good one. >> And I think credit cards are much like food or beverages. And I'm going to give you a specific example in my life. Years and years ago, uh, I was a sweet tea

animal. I mean, I drank a lot of sweet

tea. I thought it was a right of passage because I was born and raised in the south, you know? It was kind of like water and sweet tea. And I kept looking for sweet tea in the Bible. I couldn't find it anymore. >> Oh man. No, it ain't there. >> That's how much I love sweet tea. And um

and I cut it out as a part of a massive

physical goal.

>> And and this is this is this is the only thing I can describe in my life that that means this where your appetite changes. And so I was very disciplined for at least a year, Jade, to not have sweet tea. And and then a year turned

into two years and I just I just had all these other options. And I remember one day I was at some thing in the summer and somebody had a gallon of Chick-fil-A

iced tea sitting on that picnic table

and it was just going

and and you know what I did? >> Yeah. What you do? >> I poured a little bit over some ice >> and I took a drink >> and I promise you this is the truth.

>> It was disgusting.

>> I believe you. >> And here's what I learned. I talked to a nutrition nutritionist about it like weeks later and I told that story and she said, "Yeah, your appetite changed." >> Yeah, it's real. >> And so I think as long I know that was a

long-winded metaphor, but I can't help it. I'm a preacher boy. Okay. I I think

that once you get off of credit cards and you really truly follow the Ramsy plan, Excuse me.

>> And you really I'm getting choked up emotionally. >> Are you crying? Listen, I was ready to step in for you. I'm >> verted. Yeah. I uh I just believed like

the sweet tea that the idea of a credit

card when it pops back up on the picnic table >> that you'll go >> nah >> I don't want what comes with that and for me it was just it was too sugary.

>> Yeah. >> And and but what had changed was my appetite. It wasn't discipline in the moment. >> Well, >> it was my appetite change. So I I I hope

that helps. And I think that's for a lot of people to go, "Okay, man. I don't know if I can really get myself away from these credit cards with." But I'm telling you, when you change your lifestyle and you change your habits, your appetite changes with it. And that's game changer stuff. So, I I hope that helps. >> If I had an organ, I'd have played the organ behind you, but I didn't.

>> Don't get me started. I'll take an offering. I mean, we'll do an altar call. I mean, let's go, man. I I'll give you three points and an offering here quick. No, I I hope that encourages people and it's same way with debt. All right, let's get to Kyle who's joining us now in Charleston, South Carolina.

Kyle, how can we help today?

>> Hey Jaden, Ken, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Uh, so I I just finished Baby Step three. Um, >> congrats.

>> Thank you. Sent the last couple years getting out of about $80,000 worth of debt and I just finished my emergency fund. >> Way to go. >> At this point, thank you. Um, at this point I have I have no savings outside of my emergency fund and I'm looking to start budgeting for the first time.

>> Um, >> so you did all that without a budget?

>> How did that happen?

>> It was everything that was not living expenses was going going onto the debt.

So basically insane disappointment.

>> Yeah. You just went hard in the paint. Good for you. Good for you. Okay. So we're making a budget, >> right? And I I appreciate the structure of the baby steps. I think that helped me out a lot um while going through the process. And I wanted to see if you guys have any similar rules or best practices

that um I'm able to stick to as like a

first time budget or making budget for the first time. >> Great question. I love this. All right, Jade. So, here we go. The guy's got his fully funded emergency fund.

>> Yeah. So, first off, yeah, I would recommend the same budget that I use, the same budget Ken uses. It's called Every Dollar. We both really like it.

Everybody around here seems to love it.

It's great. And so once you have that budget at the top of it, you're just going to put in your income, right?

Which what is your income every month?

>> Uh it's about 100. >> Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh annually.

>> Annually. Okay. So, you're going to plug in your money. You know, I don't know what it is after taxes. I whatever that is. So, $8,000 right there at the top.

Then you're going to plug in all of your expenses. Now, when you're doing the budget, you're going to keep in mind what your next goal is, right? And for you, the goal is I need to be investing 15% of my income. So let's say, let's

just pretend you start the budget just to see the money you have. Let's pretend you start the money the the budget without accounting for that. Just to see, okay, here's the margin I actually have with the life that I actually live.

Then you're going to say, well, wait a minute. I do need to budget for this 15%. What will it look like when I pull this money away? Because that's going to go into retirement. and now am I able to budget less that 15%. And so that's kind

of the exercise that you need because that is the drum that you're going to be beating from now until the time that you retire. You're going to be investing 15% of your income. Then from there it's like, okay, what are the other things that I want to do with my margin? Um, do

I want to put savings anywhere else? Am I thinking of buying a a house? Am I thinking of buying a, you know, saving up a down payment? And by the way, is that part of your goals?

>> Yes, it is. >> Okay. So, those are the two things that are going to be driving uh the driving forces behind your budget right now.

Does that make sense?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> All righty. All right. Kelly's going to pick up. Kelly, you know what to do.

>> Oh, the assist to Kelly. You got to love it. >> Yeah. >> You know, uh this is exciting. I just want to say yay, yay, yay, Kyle. I mean,

the fact that you went so hard and fast to get to baby step three and you're like, I don't even know how to budget. I mean, that again, I applaud that and I love that you're now leaning in. You're on your way to wealth, young man. And that is exciting.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman.

Let's get right to Josh here in Fort

Worth, Texas. Josh, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, uh thanks for taking my call this afternoon. Um, I have a question

about buying my son a a vehicle. A

little bit of background. Uh, his mom and I have have been uh split up for about 8 years now. He's 17 and uh

recently got his license and I've been trying to to talk with her about getting him a car for about the last year now.

and uh she doesn't want to to participate financially um because his his grandparents on her side are um willing to let him

use a car that uh that they have. It's

still titled in their name. It's insured on their policy and they added him to to their insurance. And >> cool. >> I don't think it's the right kind of car. It's it's kind of a sporty, you know, sedan that uh an inexperienced 17-year-old probably shouldn't be driving. >> What is it? Tell us more. For real.

>> Uh, it's it it's an Acura. Um, it's an

Acura TL. Um, it's I think it's about 15

years old, but it's, you know, 300 horsepower and he got his license like two weeks ago. >> You think that he's going to drag race in this? What What is the concern?

>> No, but he's he's he's pretty impulsive kid. Um, >> quite ready for him to get his license.

>> I'm looking online at an Acura TL that's 15 years old. That is not a impulsive.

>> I am not seeing any unless I'm missing something. >> All right. By a little get up and go.

>> It's a 15year-old Acura. Nobody thinks of that car as irresponsible for a kid.

In fact, an Acura is a fabulous car. A

15-year-old Acura.

>> What do you want to buy him? Let's Let's run this whole risky thing. I'm dying to know. What do you want to buy him? Um, I'm looking more like Honda Civic. Yeah,

>> you realize Honda Honda makes Acura, but

that's the one folks trick out and race is the Honda Civ. That's like what they do. >> It's like pure stock. Like it doesn't matterless wonder.

>> I Wait a sec.

>> Okay, here's the deal. You Well, okay, I'll get out of your way, Jay, because I think you're revving up and I like when you get revved up. I if I'm in your situation, I wouldn't spend my money on buying this kid a car.

The the grandparents the other side are doing you a solid, man. Take a Don't look a gift horse in the mouth is the old phrase. >> Or at least try it out first. At the very least, let him try with the Acura.

>> And if he if he races it, then get him a

Civic to race. >> But that's his problem. But the fact that you don't want your 17-year-old, you don't think he's ready for a license is also an issue. That's, you know, I mean, is any 16-year-old ready? I mean, I know when >> two of my three, and I'm getting ready to have a third one driving, y'all pray for me. I'd like to keep my hair. Uh, but I remember when the first two started driving, Jade, I was absolutely mortified, terrified. I'm letting them drive a vehicle.

>> It didn't matter if it was an Acura or a a Yugo. If you people from the 80s remember that car? It's basically a lawn mower. You know, it doesn't matter. You

know, it's it the very concept of driving a car is dangerous. So, his impulses and all that, that's a bigger issue. You getting him a Civic versus them giving him an Acura is, and I'm

just telling you as objectively as I can, you called us, you're worried about

the wrong things. And I would take the gift. >> I would too. I listen, I second that. I

100 I thought you were going to say they're giving him a brand new 2025

Lamborghini. Like I was expecting something like that. >> Even I take that. I just ride with the kid. But hey, that's me, you know.

>> Yeah, I I think that you have a gift here. And don't block the blessing.

>> Well said, Josh. We've spoken. That's the gavvel right there.

>> You're going to do what you're going to do. I got a feeling. Do you remember when I was in high school the car to have like if you had this car? It was like >> Oh, I'm very excited. I'm a little older than you, so I'm anxious to see what this is. >> Well, and I also grew up in like a like a country town. If you had a Trans Am >> Oh, >> like that was the business.

>> It was speed. Speed on wheels.

>> Oh, man. >> And but and it was funny about a Trans Am, it's honestly a piece of crap.

>> Yeah. >> But it it looked fast.

>> It looked so cool. It had the like the bird on the on the Oh gosh. Oh, the bird >> that had the bird on the >> I know that's from uh what's the uh Smokey and the Bandit. Yeah, Bert Reynolds. Come on, man. Now I'm dating myself. There's like there's like a whole demographic that's like, did he just say Smokeoky and the Who?

>> Listen, I'm going to act like I don't know what you're talking about. >> You do know >> cuz you're the real deal. Uh Dan is joining us now in Alabama. Dan, how can we help?

>> Hey, uh Ken and Jay. Um I'm a new

listener. Uh, >> welcome aboard, sir.

>> Well, thank you. Uh, my wife and I of

almost 40 years are searching for peace.

Uh, we're sick and tired of being sick and tired. >> Good. >> Um, we uh sold our family small business of

20 years back in 2021. Uh, the buyer

made it 18 months and bankrupted it.

>> Oh, no.

and uh that really has thrown our

retirement into a uh spiral.

>> What were the what were the terms of the deal? >> Well, it was an owner financed deal for

uh three years

>> and you know the deal was that he would operate two years and be able to get SBA

financing. >> No, I get that. But over the three-year period, when the three years was done, what were you expecting to be paid?

>> Um, about a half a million. >> So, you were counting on a half a million and I'm guessing you're getting zero.

>> Uh, well, we didn't get much.

>> Okay. You have any other retirement accounts? Well, I just well we in trying to keep

the facility operating because we had

tenants uh renting out part of the facility.

Um I had to keep that up and going. So

we have kind of blown through what and

uh what retirement we had saved up. Now

>> what kind of facility is it? What? Like do you still have >> a food manufacturing facility?

>> Okay. >> It's a large facility.

>> Do you who owns that? Who who has ownership? I'm assuming the new >> the new owner. You still kept ownership.

>> Yeah. I leased I leased him the he bought assets of the >> All right. Understood. >> So So you have zero. You have Well, tell

me give me real numbers. How much did you get from the sale of the company? You said you got a little, not much. We need real numbers here. What do you Yeah, we got we got less than 100,000.

>> 90 80 75 >> 90 >> Okay. 90 >> 90. Okay. So 90,000 and then you have

zero retirement money,

>> right? Other than we just received an inheritance IRA from >> How much is that? >> Um >> how much? >> It's now at 100,000.

>> Okay. How old are you guys?

>> I'm 64. >> Okay. >> Okay. And how much is the building worth if you were to sell it today?

>> Uh have it now listing for 1 point uh

1.375.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, go ahead.

>> Well, here's what we're doing. We Let's Let's hold this because there's more to there's more work to do here. So, uh hang on the line. Keep those numbers handy, Dan. We need those numbers. And we're going to pick up where we left off. All right. Okay.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

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You can get yours for $49.97 at ramiesolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes. If you're watching on YouTube right now, I've got it in my hands here and >> this is no joke. >> It's nice.

>> Substantial. >> I could knock a man out with this with very little effort. It's just that substantial. A lot of tabs. And I think that's probably a good feature for a planner as well, don't you think? >> And it's a little bit smaller than last year, so it's easier to just >> smaller than last year. What was last year? The scrolls. >> Uh, it was >> Wow. This is substantial. I I really am

fascinated by it. And uh you know else I like this little what do you call this? >> The binder. It's continuous so it can't come off like last year.

Last year we had a little bit of problems with it. This year it's completely solved. It's great. >> I feel like you might have engineered this not only contributed to it.

You're speaking with great knowledge about all this. >> I just Well, I'm part of the product and I I care about it. I love it. It's great.

>> I love it. There you go. All right. So, we're going to come back to Dan and uh Dan uh kind of set this up here.

sold his family business and the person

who bought it was owner financed. So that means they were paying Dan over three years and did not go well. So

we're running through the numbers. So Dan, we're we're coming back to you.

Let's let's recast on the numbers uh to

make sure that Jade and I are completely caught up. Um you walked away with

$90,000 cash from the sale of this company. Is that correct?

>> Correct. >> Okay. And uh you were expecting uh to

walk away with 500,000. Is that also correct? >> That is correct. >> All right. And uh you've depleted your

retirement funds down to basically nothing to kind of keep this building that you still loan afloat. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> All right. Great. And so what did you tell me the if we were to sell this building today and you have listed it, what do you expect to actually walk away with?

the equity I would hope to walk away

with uh around 400,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And just to clarify, there's no business running out of it. It's just a building. You said you had a couple of renters in there. Is that what I heard?

>> Well, I restarted a different version of

the business that I sold because I had to keep the building going. >> Yeah. And how was that doing?

Well, my son came on board. He stopped

his career venture into insurance to

join with me and try to >> Yeah. >> re restart the business that we were

doing. >> And how's it going?

>> Well, it's still not paying for the bis the building and it's just bleeding me.

>> It's bleeding. >> So, will you shut that business down? >> The building the building is too big for what we are able to do. sell that

building. Would you keep that business going?

>> No, because now my son has decided he

wants to go back to insurance. >> Good move. I was going to suggest that.

So, so if I >> So, you know, with the risk of having to build a whole new smaller facility in

order to operate profitably, he doesn't

want to take that risk.

>> So, if if I'm reading the situation, if I've got the facts, Dan, correct me here. You were hoping to walk away with 500k over a three-year period, but if we sell this building, we're going to end up being at 490K now. So instead of 500k later, you're going to be 490 now, correct? >> Well, the 90 is gone, but >> it was still money.

It was still money you received. >> Wait, wait. Oh, so you've already spent. Okay.

I was under the impression you retained the 90. You're saying it's already been spent. >> Yes. >> Okay.

But same scenario.

get rid of the building you're going to have 400k >> hopefully. Yes. >> Okay. So the only difference is is we blew through retirement. How much retirement did you spend?

>> Probably 250.

>> Okay. So that's the number. So when I look at okay where we thought we were going to be was 500k in cash and 250

continuing to grow in retirement. Now we're going to be at 400 and zero in retirement. That's the difference. So we've got a $250,000 deficit.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we got to address that.

>> You know, my head has just been so wrapped up in all the arms and legs of this thing. I can't seem to critical think my way through these. And you know, I've tried to We never have been

much of a budgeter. Um, so I've thrown

all this mess together on a spreadsheet.

And >> I think uh >> I think you've had this for so long and it went away that you didn't want it to go and so you're kind of trying to grasp at straws to keep it. But I think the longer you keep it, the more lost you're going to feel. And and I get it. You've

sunk a lot of time and money and cost into this. And that's deceiving, right?

You keep thinking, "Oh, there might be a way that I can re reget it and get it back and get it back, but instead you're just losing at a very fast rate." >> Here's a quick question. >> I don't Where's your income? I understand the 400 because that was going to be a part of your retirement or were you planning to live off of the 500? In other words, all I want to know right now is how are you bringing in income?

>> Well, it's through the business that we're operating now. >> But you're about ready to shut that down. >> Yes. >> And so, so now that's our biggest issue.

So how much money what do you need to make? What kind of income do you need to replace? >> The hope is that I am willing to sell

off what is left of the businesses that

we are operating.

>> Yeah. >> Because there there are there is potential there. I mean there there are >> what kind of potential? What do you think it would be in dollars?

hopefully at least another three or

400,000. >> But that >> I think I can resell it again if I can split it up into two segments.

>> Well, now we're closing that gap with these new businesses >> and we can invest that in retirement and and replace the 250 with these numbers.

But again, where's our income?

If you sell those businesses, you still need some income. >> Yeah. What will you do? >> Yeah. Well, and that's and that's the next thing is this is all we've ever done. So, you know, manufacturing food is what we know. And

in order to duplicate that on a smaller

scale, we still have to have expensive

facilities.

>> So, then we're going through the mind process of of like your book is what

what are we really wired to do? Well, I get that. But I wonder if I wonder if you could go work for somebody instead of running the business. You're 65 and and you're trying to play catchup, but if we sell all these businesses and stack this cash, if I'm in your shoes, I'm looking to go do similar work, but I'm going to go do it for somebody else in this twilight and and allow myself to to keep stacking onto retirement.

>> You for right now, I'm not thinking that I have to start another manufacturing business. I actually think at this stage with you checking out of all these things and exiting, I would go do similar work, you know, contract work, go work for somebody else that does it.

Is it ideal for you? No. But is it a lot

safer and is it a lot calmer? And does it help you continue to catch up? Yes, that's what I would do. >> You also did say though, and I just want to play this out.

You said before, hey, we would be making money on the manufacturing business we have now, but we're our facility is too large, so we're bleeding because of it. And you said we needed a smaller facility. So my question is, if you sold off the smaller businesses that you've created as a result of having all this extra space, would that create the money you need to have the smaller facility so that the existing business can actually be profitable? and then overtime maybe you just have somebody else come in and run it like and that's kind of your your plan to transition out.

>> Well, we have considered that but you know without a son uh to take longevity

I just don't I just don't >> you don't have it in you. I can hear it.

I can hear you don't have it. You listen >> I've already retired once. I get I got to hear it that that idea while a good idea I think for you it's exhausting >> you know I'm I'm in good physical shape

so yes going to work somewhere for a

little while and stack up some more cash it's just >> that's the play >> so much to think through and and >> well I just simplified it I just simplified it for you and you got to be okay with it yeah you got to be okay going you know what the deal went bad it's not my fault that the bonehead ran it in the ground maybe I could have done something but we don't play that game.

We're not going to You're not going to just play armshare quarterback on yourself. Let's move forward. Sell everything. Let's stack the cash and let's retire with dignity.

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[Music]

Hey, how are you doing with the baby steps? Are you on track? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. All you do is go to our show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and you can

complete the quiz. It's a great resource. Let's go to Norman, Oklahoma.

Tristan is there. Tristan, how can we help? >> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Good. How are you?

>> Uh, pretty good. I have encountered a

situation. Um, I was not ready for it.

I've been listening to you guys for about a year now. And, um, about a month

ago, at the end of July, uh, I got into a wreck. Um, I was, um, I goofed. I was

trying to work the baby steps out of order. So, uh, not the smartest part of my end, but I was trying to get rid of my debt before saving up the the nest egg. So, I don't have $1,000 to help me out with, uh, getting a new car. The,

um, I was in a car accident and, uh, it was his fault. He ran into me and, uh, told him my car, but, uh, I just had liability. Now I don't have transportation, and I am trying to find

a vehicle off of like Facebook Marketplace, and I can't can't seem to find one within my price range. Right now, I have about 700 saved up and that's about all the money I have. And >> what? Okay, hold on. Slow down just one second here. So, because it was the other guy's fault, do have you talked to to your insurance people and his insurance people? Are you getting you should get some money on that for the car? Insurance from his insurance for your car.

>> Yeah. So, the thing is is like I said, I

was working on baby step two and so I was $6,000 before I was trying to get

paid off by the end of the year, but I was 6 $6,000 under and it was a 2016

Hyundai Sonata and so um I the value is

just right around there.

>> I'm I'm so confused, bro. >> So, you're saying you were upside down on the car? Is that what you're saying?

The 6K. Is that what you were saying?

>> Mhm. >> Upside down on the car. Okay. So, that's neither here nor there. >> Yeah. What's the car worth?

>> What is the total when the car was total? What is the number?

>> Um, so my attorney's been working on that. Um, she has gotten to me and the

lumber that we're looking at is at 5,500. >> So, you should be getting a check for 5,500 from his insurance agency.

>> But I was told that that was going to go straight to the bank since I'm in since it's under a loan. >> That is correct. I apologize. I I was so focused on your next car. That's okay.

So, that's gone. And you have $700.

>> Correct. >> Well, that's a Don't be looking for a $700 car. You might as well get a bicycle. >> Mhm. >> Cuz that's going to be more dependable.

I'm not even kidding. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 26. >> Okay. What do you do for work?

>> I am a teacher. >> A teacher. Okay. >> How far away do you live from the school? >> Um, I live about 11 miles.

>> Okay. So, you're still able to work?

Like, you're not injured from this, are you? >> Correct. I No. God was surrounding me.

Um, I'm going through PT right now. Um, I'm I I am filing an accident injury lawsuit. >> So, we're on the steps of that, but I don't know what to do in the meantime before I get that money. >> I think you're going to be on So, the first step is we need to figure out where is there any margin in your budget because that's what's going to be what you're putting towards saving up for a beater vehicle.

And in the meantime, you're doing a couple of things called the bus. You're doing you're taking the the cheapest level of lift. You're hitching a ride with, you know, >> how much bicycling have you done in your life?

>> Did you really? Okay. The reason I'm asking is what do you think 11 miles?

How long would it take you to ride 11 miles? >> I could ride I can ride a mile in like I

don't know like five minutes because I when I ride to my workout it's about a mile and a half away.

55. Yeah. I mean, if it's faster than that, but I, you know, I always underestimate these things. >> If it's a safe ride, >> I was pretty good on the Pelaton. >> If it's a safe ride, try it. Um, but >> you got to do something like that. I mean, that's the real That's the real real Tristan. Like, you're going to have to save. What do you think in your budget you could carve out every month to go towards a car?

>> Because you need like $3,000.

>> Yeah. I'm thinking I'm just trying to I'm still I'm still working on trying to get the I have the Every Dollar app, but I'm trying to get those behaviors in.

So, I'm not too good at it yet. >> No, no, no, no. Okay, you can do this today. So, I don't want you to over make

this too difficult. Today, you go in there and when you get paid from your from being a teacher, do you get paid twice a month?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, what are those checks?

>> Um, they are,300.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you put both of those $1,100 checks in there. And then you're going to say, "Okay, I've got $2,200." Do you teach full-time?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. I've got $2,200 to spend. And then from there, you're going to it's going to give you a place to put all the things you spend money on.

So, you're going to put your rent out of there. You're going to put everything out of there. So, when you were paying off debt, because you said, "Hey, I went too fast. I paid off my debt too fast and I didn't do the savings." When you were paying off your debt, how much extra were you putting towards paying off your debt?

Um, anything I could I I didn't have a specific number I was putting. Do you want to say I was paying my rent? >> Give me a good month.

>> Um, on a good month 600.

>> Okay. So now that essentially what I'm telling you is that $600 instead of going towards paying off your debt, you're going to stack that for the next two three months, two months until you

have okay uh 1,200 plus the 700 you had

before. You're going to have about $2,000. Right? So it's like, okay, great. Now I'm getting closer to being able to buy this car. If you can put another thousand with it, that's that's how this is going to work. Now the hard part is usually we would tell people if they're saving for a car, you need to be side hustling. You need to be doing this and that. But for you it's a slim margin because you don't have transportation.

So this is going to be a grind out for you for 3 months. >> Are you How much money you generating?

Because I'm over here. Um Jay, just so you know, I'm not um >> No, I know you're >> I'm not checking my stocks. I'm looking up used cars. Are you actually near Norman, Oklahoma?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I I'm in South Norman.

>> South Norman. How much money have you generated for him with this? >> He's going to have In two months he's going to have 2,000. In 3 months he's going to have uh if he grinds it out, he's going to have 3,000. >> Okay. All right. So, I'm just doing a check here. You're going to need uh I

think to be safe another thousand. Uh I'm looking at some some cars that again will get you from point A to point B. >> No, go lower. I think you can go lower.

Well, I'm just doing a quick, you know, Okay. I'm just saying I

direct to say like Facebook Marketplace, you probably can. >> Yeah, cuz he's only going 10 miles a day and then he can he can slowly up after that. >> Yeah, but I I like the 3 to 4,000. I just was playing off of your number. I think 3 to 4,000 is the number. And I would say uh Facebook Marketplace is a good play. Um but some of these dealers

get get really um >> seedy. Well, they're very happy to unload a like here's a 2007 Pontiac Vibe

base. I never even heard of this car.

>> I don't get that. >> I'm not saying you get it, but I'm saying you go to this dealer, they're asking $39.99 for that. You go in there with $2,000 in $100 bills and lay it on

the hood of that vibe and you're driving that thing away. >> Yeah. You shake his greasy hand and you're out the door. >> You don't even have to shake his hand. Just, hey, here it is. Spread it out.

And on and that guy's going to go 2,000 cash for a Pontiac vibe.

>> Well, don't spread it out. You're going to get the man jumped. Just just just

write a check like a normal.

>> No, you missing No, you're missing my drama. You thought that was gangster. I think that's a I think it's a flex.

>> It's like you're like unbutton your shirt, throw your chest hairs out, put a gold chain on, and just slap it on.

>> That works for $2,000. My point is cash

for these older cars. cash really goes a long way. >> It does. >> And that's all I'm saying. Just something practical there. But that's what your play is right now.

>> And then hopefully you get a nice check from this uh this case or whatever.

>> Yeah, I hope so. >> So yeah, man. >> This is called time.

>> That is, you know, there's an old phrase. You're a teacher, Tristan. You probably heard this. Where there's a will, there's a >> way. >> There you go. And um and this is the

time. And it's a very easy, by the way, because there's going to be a chorus of people singing. Go get a Go get a car

payment. >> Don't do it. >> And there's the choir. The choir is going to be singing it. >> Don't do it. >> There it is. >> Don't do it. >> Nice. Nice.

>> I'm always ready for you. >> You got to step out of the choir like Jade does. Like she has a different color robe than everybody else, you know? She's got the mic. She gets out center stage. That That's what you got to do here. The soloist. You got to be a soloist on this because the choir is going to get you in trouble with a car payment, you know. Don't do it. And uh I

tell you what, folks, you want to enjoy yourself sometime and you're really bored, nothing good on TV, pull up the old used car websites and look for cars

listed under $5,000. Give you a chuckle.

[Music]

[Music]

Our [Music]

scripture of the day comes from Ephesians 2:10. For we are God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do. Our quote of the day from

Ephesians 2:10 to Janice Joplain. It's always a just a natural bridge.

>> Indeed. >> You are what you settle for. Jesus to Jofflin >> with it all day. >> Thank you, Jade.

Well said. Uh, by the way, I want to be known for quotes like that. Just >> you are what you settle for. >> Yeah.

Six words. Like Janice just dropped the mic. >> She did drop it. >> She just said it, lit up a sig, and walked away.

>> No big deal. >> Nikki is in Missouri. Nikki, how can we help? Um there is a I'm a senior citizen widowed and there is another senior citizen much older than me w a widowerower who is interested in a relationship with me and with the goal of getting married because he wants to get married.

>> All right. All right. All right.

you're putting out the vibe, huh?

>> I know.

>> Well, there's more behind it though.

>> Oh,

yes. He does not know my financial situation, but I know his completely.

>> Okay. >> I like how you roll, Nikki. I like it.

>> So So you've got money and he doesn't

>> Exactly. >> So he doesn't know you could be a sugar mama.

>> He just got out of a sugar mama relationship. In fact, I'm the one that that pointed it out and said, "Look, let me lay this out for you and she's going to take all your money." She had every bit of his money in a joint account with her name on it. >> And did she take it? Did she take it?

>> No. I um >> But he doesn't have a whole lot anyway.

>> No. 125,000.

>> Oh, that's it. >> All right. So, what is your uh Keep going. So, what's your concern or what's your question for us? >> All right. My concern is >> he told me that that 125 is burning a hole in his pocket. And it's like, you know, his pension alone is about a h

100,000 a year. >> Okay. >> And so, you know, he makes good money, but where is it?

>> Is he that bad with money?

>> Well, apparently he was spending it on this last lady. Now he wants to spend it on you. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, what's this?

This >> So, is this leading to should I mean, I feel like you're leading to another question here. I I don't want to ask it for you. I want you to ask it. What's your question?

>> I'm ready. I'm worried that I'm worried that he's going to end up needing very expensive nursing home care or something and he's going to blow through his money instantly and then >> I'd have to dip into mine if we're married.

>> He's 81. >> And how old are you?

>> 68. >> Oh yeah. See, I don't know.

>> Interesting. >> I don't know. Well, first of all, we jumped ahead to all this. The way this call started is I just met this guy. He just got out of this other relationship.

>> Seems very fast. This all seems fascinating. Do you even like this guy?

>> Well, we've been Facebook friends for over three years. >> Well, that doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to marry my Facebook. First of all, I'm married. But if I was in your situation, I wouldn't I wouldn't consider marrying a Facebook friend.

>> That would be more criteria.

>> Oh, no. We've liked each other's pictures for three years. We thought maybe we would uh tie the knot.

>> What else is there, >> Nikki? No. This guy needs to court you.

Can I Can I act like >> I I know I I'm not I'm not saying that he's not going to.

>> But he has he started yet is the question. Or are we jumping ahead?

>> But we're talking about something we shouldn't talk about is what I'm getting at, Nikki. This guy's got to earn your love. He's got to earn the right to to

marry you. At which point you discuss all these things in this process. And if if you guys aren't in aligned if you're not aligned with your money at this late stage of life, >> you shouldn't do it. >> Yeah. >> Because I mean, God bless him. 81.

>> That's my question is if >> or because he has such a good income, do

I not worry about it so much? Am I overthinking this? >> I think Well, we're trying to get a bead on what the relationship actually is.

>> It ain't. >> Are you dating? It's Facebook.

>> No, it it isn't yet. I have been putting him off. He asked me out two years ago and I said, "Oh, I'm in the middle of the house." Your hair. >> Okay. >> You were washing your hair. Then she went to that one. That's great.

>> But wait a minute. Wait a minute. >> Nikki, let me ask a question. >> I don't think you really like this guy.

I feel like it's a line in the water and you're like, "Well, I'm not doing anything else." >> I think you're 68 and you're a widow and this guy's interested in you and that's kind of nice, but you don't. You haven't said anything that makes me think there's something there. >> No, you said he would like to get married. >> There isn't. There there isn't yet.

Well, he asked me already >> to marry, >> you know, I want to basically >> we said, you know, would you consider getting married? And it's like, well, I don't know. I don't even have met you yet.

>> Do you live in the same space to actually meet each other in person?

>> We're going to in a week and a half.

He's coming here. He's six hours away.

>> So, you really legitimately have never met him? >> Hold up. How do we know this isn't catfishing? Do you even know what that means?

Yeah, but I I really don't think it is.

He is too open and honest. No,

Nikki, you are you have a hook in both sides of your mouth right now, and this needs to stop. You do not have any more communication with this guy until this 81-year-old wrinkled dude shows up in his Bermuda shorts and is the real deal.

Yeah, >> this is this is a I'm not kidding you.

>> Yeah, neither am I. I I wish D I wish Dave were here today and I don't want to get mean like Dave, but I'm telling you everything you're saying sounds like you are being completely punked and you are

falling for it. Your first reply to me was, "Oh, no, no, but he's so open and honest and that's how they get you." >> And why would you even be talking about finances >> to this level with somebody that you've never even seen in person?

Oh, that was because of the the scammer he was with last and he just about went >> right. But even that part all >> not met this guy. You don't even know if he's real. >> Yeah, that this all sounds like a scam.

>> Tell him to come meet you.

>> Let me go. >> He is. He's going to wait until I'm going to do that for two months. >> Let's wait and see if he shows up. >> Yeah, let's see if he's on. This guy never shows up because he gets a mysterious case of overnight gout.

>> Yeah. Do you know anybody else that knows him?

Okay. We get on uh Facebook widowed video chats and so you know you kind of get to know the people in the group and he was in that group for a long time.

>> Yeah, he was. Cuz that's where I would fish if I was a scammer. >> But you've seen his face. >> Know where the fish are biting >> as a as a Zoom call is what you're saying. >> Buy it. What's his name? >> Yeah.

>> Charlie. >> Yeah. It's not real.

>> It actually is. I've

need to wait to see him. If you see him in person, >> I'm getting angry. >> If you see him in person, you've had Zoom calls with him, seeing his face. If you see him now, if he's doing the the the Wilson from Home Improvement where you never see the >> It's always like this and you never see the whole face. >> Nikki, if your daughter called us, if

you had a daughter, I don't know if you have a daughter or not, it doesn't matter. But if you had a daughter or if you do have a daughter and she called us and you were listening to this call, what in the world would you say to her?

Oh, I know it. But she's much younger than me. >> It doesn't matter. You're not a desperate lost case. You You've got to be careful. >> The other thing is I honestly think he want He I told him where I lived >> last year. Gee, that's smart. That's smart. >> I know it. I know it. I do trust that I

>> No, no, no, no. I'm done. I'm not going to be as mean as Dave, but I'm gonna tell you something, Nikki. I'm going to tell you the truth because I feel like I have to tell you the truth and then Jade can clean it up. I'm gonna give you my 30 seconds and then >> Nikki, this is absolute foolishness.

>> Whether it's a scam or not, >> this is foolishness. And I'm being very, very serious.

>> And I'm going to tell you why. >> I don't care. I'm not listening. No, I don't want I don't want to hear it. Let me tell you why. >> You need to protect your heart. No, you need to protect your heart. Whether it's a scam or not, you are talking about finances and combining your life with a guy that you've never been on a date with. that is significantly older than you that based on what he's told you so far the he's reckless with money and all

these other things. There's nothing stable about this entire phone call.

Nothing stable. The only thing that's stable is your financial situation. But you are putting your financial and your emotional situation in massive risk. And

I'm telling you the absolute truth. You need to run from this. if this guy's real, if he wants to pursue you like you were when you were 22, then we have a conversation. And I'm not that I need this, but everybody in the audience out there is shaking their head.

And and this is insanity that you're considering this. And so J, >> only a desperate person would go forward with this. Only a desperate stupid woman. And you are neither of those things.

So don't do it.

know, would be would be he said his p

his full pension goes to his wife when he dies if he's married here.

>> You don't need his pension. You don't need Well, then why are we still having this conversation? Go hang out with some

fried green tomatoes and have some strong margaritas and cry yourself to sleep tonight about how lonely you are because that's what's going on. You're lonely.

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## 286. You’re Either Building Wealth or Losing It | October 16, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Jay Borshaw. and we're here to answer your questions. So give us a call at88255225.

But first we have Drew in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey Drew, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Quick background before I state my question. Uh 15 years ago, my parents

went broke and transferred their house to me for a symbolic dollar to keep it

from the bank. the transfer was legal.

Uh the contract gives them a lifelong right of residence but doesn't require rent. They only pay property taxes and upkeep, meaning uh no positive cash flow on my end. They also verbally agreed to pay off the remainder uh of the mortgage. Uh because of that, they have always acted as if the house was still theirs, allowing people to live in parts of the house and remodel sections without my knowledge. And I'm okay with that. Now, after their court case ended

last year, they're expecting me to pay for the house. And my question is, am I

required to pay them if I want to keep the house? >> So, they would be moving out in this deal. They would be moving out and the house would go to you.

>> Uh, no. The lifer wrong residency, right? Residency keeps them in there and I'm okay with that. >> Right. that you said that they it sounded like you were saying they want you to pay for the house which means they would move. Correct.

>> No. >> Or they want to live there while you pay for it.

>> Exactly.

>> Well, jeez. How much is How much is the house worth, Drew?

>> Uh more than 500K.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> I'm 36. >> 36. Do you have a family?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And and so everyone's living in the house together.

>> Uh no, we actually living in a different country. That house is not in is is not in Texas in Fort Worth.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. So your family is

in a different country. Wait, explain it again. I'm confused. >> Yes. So I and my family, my wife and our

kids, we are living we are here in Texas. Okay. And um my parents they live

in that house in a different country.

>> Got it. So what what is Go ahead.

>> Now as the court case ended last year that raised the questions the question how do we proceed and they v verbalized

the expectation that I pay if the house

if I keep the house.

>> Right. And my my question is yes, I would like to keep the house and the transfer was legal, but I I don't think

to be honest to be required to pay.

>> Well, I think if you're going to keep the house, you should be living in it

or, you know, deciding some way. Yeah.

As opposed to you keeping it just for ownership purposes and them living in it. Now, if you were to keep it, would you require them, let's say you did keep it, you kept the, you know, you took over the mortgage, would they pay you rent or they would pay zero?

>> Um, I don't know.

>> And why would you pay for a house, Drew, that you're not that you're not living in at all? I mean, you you have no financial gain at all from this.

>> And it's in a different country. What country is it in?

>> It's in Germany. >> Okay. So the the point is I would like to keep the house to generate workflow uh cash positive cash flow after they moved out probably and I'm I'm okay with them living in the house after they they

uh um pass away. The point is >> okay I see >> at that point I I would generate I would generate positive cash flow at that point and uh I do not intend to live in that house. I think it's a it's an asset for me to generate um pass um

>> I hear what you're saying, but here's what it sounds like. It sounds like the number one thing you're concerned about is having a place for your parents to live and providing that. Otherwise, if that wasn't number one on your list, you would sell that house and buy a house here in the States 500,000 that's in Fort Worth. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't think that having a rental

property is your number one goal. I think somewhere along the lines you feel the the need to house your parents and I

think that's the real conversation here, right? >> Yes. I think I think you nailed that.

Yes. I'm concerned about them as far as I want them or I agreed to the lifelong

right of residence in the contract and I honor that. So, but I do not see any

reason why I should pay them now as the

house is technically and and legally mine that I should pay them back for the

house. >> Is the is the house paid off?

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And how much do they want you to pay back?

>> Um, we did not talk about that yet.

>> Okay. It just sounds like Drew, there's a lot of details that you guys haven't talked about. If I were in your shoes today, this is very messy and if I were

in your shoes, I'd say, "Guys, you know, thanks. You know, you guys included me in this, but I don't want to be included anymore." >> Yeah. I was going to say, can you from a legal standpoint because I'm I'm a little bit unfamiliar. I guess that's German law, the the lifelong res.

I mean, >> yeah. Right of residence. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not I'm not 100% sure on that, Drew.

So my question is, is there any way legally you can get it out of your name, give it back to them, and then they leave it to you when they pass as a as you know, their estate?

there a way just for you to be completely out of the situation just while they're alive and let them have their house and they've paid for it, right? They paid it off, right? Not you.

>> Yes. Yes, they did. Okay. Yeah. Yes. So,

is there any way just let them live in their house? They But you don't need to pay them. I don't think you need to pay them because you're not living in it >> and you're not selling it >> and it's not your asset. Yeah.

[Music] >> So, if I Yeah. So, I Yeah.

>> If I were you, I would see even legally

if there's a way to get your name out of this whole Yes. Because for some reason, if they fall behind on property tax or whatever it looks like for them, if there's any catchall for you, Drew, >> then you're here in Texas, >> you know, and your parents, they paid for the house, all that. So, no, I don't think you need to pay them back, but if it's in your name, I could see how they're thinking, okay, they don't have any >> control >> control and they don't have anything to their name at that point.

>> Yes, they paid for the house, but legally they transferred it to me for a dollar. >> Yeah. Yeah, they did. So, either either you transfer it back for a dollar. Can

you do that? >> Uh, no. for 120,000 taxes.

>> That's the limit like that's the minimum that you can do.

>> No, if I would transfer it according back to them according to the law, German law at this point, they would pay

120,000 in in property in selling in

taxes. >> Selling it taxes.

>> Got it. So the only way then >> Oh boy.

>> Yeah, it is a mess. And I almost would find some kind of legal way to write this up. up. I don't know how you would do that, but >> but I don't Yes, they paid for the house. >> You didn't pay anything for the house.

Yet, you were given a $500,000 gift

>> and then they're like, >> "Well, it was Let's remember it wasn't a gift. It was to shield them from like Yes. negative behavior, it sounds like." Yeah, my my my position would be uh I

think I've paid far more already than the house is worth because a few months after I signed the can contract, I discovered that I had lost eligibility for government financial aid for a college degree. >> Ah, okay. You got to get with a lawyer to get out of this. >> Yeah. At that point, then you're then you're tangled in a mess. But I would not want my name on a deed or a situation that I have no control over or I'm not around. That's that would be my number one for you, Drew.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years. And so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[Music]

Up next, we have Josh in Seattle, Washington. Hi Josh. Welcome to the show. >> Hi Rachel. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

Yes, I had a question about converting a home equity line of credit over to like

a 12 or 15year mortgage because we're not making any progress. We're just paying interest only right now and will for the foreseeable future. >> Okay. Because of the payment and you what that's what you guys can afford or what?

Uh we we pay um a ridiculous amount for

private school education for four kids and that's kind of locked down our our monthly um I guess ability uh to make

any progress. >> How much how much is the heliloc and how much is the tuition for the four kids?

>> Sure. So the like the interest only payment or how much do we owe um on >> tell me why don't you tell me both. What's the total amount and how much do you pay every month? Sure. So, we owe

$65,28 and then our minimum our interest only payment each month is right around $450.

It kind of fluctuates because it's a variable rate. >> And then our monthly monthly payment for

private school is $3,74.

>> And what's your income between you and your wife?

>> Sure. So, it just changed. My wife just went back to work this year. So, she'd been out of work um raising the kids, not out of work. Jeez, how insensitive.

No, she uh she was at home with the kids and just went back to work a month ago.

So, that just added about $1,000 a month. So, our total take-home is right around uh 10 sorry, 11,500

right around there. >> And what's your mortgage payment?

>> Uh we don't have one.

>> Oh, it's paid. Your house is paid off.

What did you What did you take the heliloc out on? Did you What?

uh to do a home. We lost our minds. Um

we we paid off the house. We were completely debtree and we were working baby steps uh four, five, and six. And then I had some really good ideas and uh it turns out they were terrible ideas and um we borrowed 105,000 for a home

remodel and then spent the rest in cash.

>> Okay. But still you were m you're making 11,500. School is 3,000 a month total.

37 >> 37 3,700.

>> Okay. Still, so you're at 7,000 a month.

You have no mortgage. Where's the problem here to pay $450 a month or

more? You could pay $1,000 a month to pay off this HELOC.

>> Yeah, it would just take forever.

>> There's the problem. Okay, now Rachel, now we got to the bottom of it. It has nothing to do with the payment. It has to do with the fact that you're like, I'm tired of paying this. Can't I just roll it into my mortgage so I or create a mortgage out of it? >> Which which would be a difference though for you, Josh. Like what's the It's all It's all the same. Is it just the interest that you're worried about?

>> Yeah, it's we're not making any progress and it's interest only. So we're not making a dent in the 65,000. That's >> So how much extra could you pay? Say you did convert it to a mortgage. How much extra would you find to pay to pay it?

Um, >> because if you kept it at 450, I'm not going to be h how much?

>> 500 a month. >> Where's all your money going, Josh? I'm confused.

>> I mean, can you guys log into my every dollar app? >> Yeah, I I know. I kind of want to.

>> You log in. Why don't you lo in and tell us? >> Because you're living like you're on baby steps four, five, and six, but you're not. You guys are back to baby step two, which means beans and rice, rice and beans, and you're doing nothing

but paying down the 65,000. This could be a student loan. This could be a car.

You could throw any any type of debt on this. >> That's what this is. And you guys are back to that starting point.

>> And it doesn't need to be a mortgage.

>> Yeah. I mean, just like >> take live on nothing. You don't have a house payment. Like

>> I'm laughing because it's it's kind of

shop at Aldi. Don't go out to eat. Don't go on vacation. Cut subscriptions. Do nothing until this is paid off.

>> Yes. And you've got the income to do it.

I mean, you got to at least find 2,000 out of this.

>> I mean, not really. When we when we look at the numbers and where we're allocating funds, like contributing to the Roths. >> No, stop it. Stop it. You're on baby step two, Josh. You're not on baby steps four, five, and six. Stop the kids college. Stop retirement. All of it. And get this $65,000.

It's paid off.

You got >> because because Josh because what are you you're wanting to convert it to a mortgage and then put it what in baby step six and then just kind of slowly like >> get rid of it. >> Yeah, that's what he wants to do.

>> Yeah, cuz then with the extra if we paid you know what we're paying right now for it um in addition to >> Here's why I don't like that for you.

Here's why I don't like that for you. because you already >> I don't like you putting it into a mortgage because now this is

>> risk on your home, right? And I don't

like this because you're already like it sounds like you're averse to paying off debt. So, this is a can that you're going to kick down the road for a really long time. >> And I think you're trying to put yourself in a position where you can kick the can down the road. >> Yeah. Because you guys make how much a year?

Um, right now about

145 before >> Yeah. Because kind of our rule of thumb, Josh, is if if a heliloc is over half of

your annual income, then we say you can roll it into your primary mortgage. But it's not. >> It's less than half of it. So, it's got to be on baby step two.

>> And I'm 46 and stopping retirement right now. >> You're 46 and sorry, took out $100,000 that you borrowed on your home. Like I don't that should make you more intense.

That the fact that you said, "Oh my gosh, I'm 46. I took out this HELOC. I have to pause retirement." That should make you go, "Holy crap, I got to get my butt in line and I got to like go." And instead, you're like, "Gosh, get this paid off in two years.

>> Get it paid off in two years." >> That Yeah. I mean, that so that you Yeah. You called I think you're I think you were enjoying the ride of baby steps four, five, and six. Then you went back in debt, which takes you back to baby step two.

>> I never wanted to call because of that because I was afraid Dave was going to answer and then I was going to get destroyed. >> I'm nicer than him, though. I'm at least saying it with a smile.

>> I >> Yeah. No, it's it's it's awful. Um >> No, I'm not saying I know. >> We're not trying to make you feel bad. >> I'm not trying to make you feel bad, Josh. I know. I just want to I want to I need you I'm trying to shake you back into reality of where you are financially. >> Yeah. And so that's where you guys are.

And so you got to go back in that mindset >> and and y'all paid off your house. Like you guys can do this. You guys can do this. And I know >> um that it's not fun, but I'm like when you have that all paid off, you're not even going to have to worry about this.

And I think you can do it in two two and a half years. >> Yeah. >> And if your wife works extra, if she if she makes double what she's making now instead of $1,000 a month, >> there you go.

I like have her go back more full time.

I do have >> I've been doing real estate for 10 years and so right now with working full-time the government I do about six to eight transactions a year in real estate. So if if that comes through and if that continues we we could if we went back to step two >> um >> it's just not we can't count on okay so maybe step two final >> I would and final final answer and again just I go back to the math of it then the math doesn't have emotions so it doesn't have my like Josh what did you do it is half of your annual income is the heliloc and that's kind of just the rule of thumb around Ramsay if it's half of it you put it in baby step two if it's more than that u you know if you had if it was at still $100,000 That would be a little different.

>> it's the pain of the consequences of going backwards >> of course >> and feeling that >> and that's what happens you know and people you know listening right now that happens to people because of you know a job loss they go through their emergency fund they can't replace an income they go back into debt like sometimes it happens because of life happening to you >> Josh I love you but sometimes it's us choosing to make >> the new kitchen Yes. Um and so that's

why you got Yeah. And the heliloc and I bet I bet it because he said I think they started at 100 or something. So I mean they they've they've knocked some of it down which makes me think they got it a few years ago during the co Oh yeah

2021 2022 when when helocks just became so popular because everyone's at home being like okay let's get a pool and everybody's mortgage doubles. >> Yeah that's right. That's right. You get all this equity and you're like okay I can use this. Um but that's the problem.

And then also here the pain you guys of of the of the variable rate um the variable rate. Um it the heock it's all

yes it is up and down and it kind of rides that wave and um and all the formulas of even how they how they get it. So >> just cash flow these things you guys.

And it takes longer. It's not as fun. It may not be as beautiful but at least you can afford it that you're living within your means. So Josh, we are cheering you guys on. Call us back in in two and a half years. I hope it's sooner >> and do your another Yeah, do another debtree scream.

[Music]

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Well, thank you for all of you that join us, uh, whether it's on YouTube, podcast, Spotify, um, radio, all of it. We appreciate it.

And one of the best things that you can do for us is help spread the word. So,

make sure to like, subscribe, share our episodes with your friends and your family, uh, because we want everyone to be able to start to learn how to get control of their money and how to, um, do this area of their life well. So, that's always helpful for us, but we're always so thankful to you guys. All right, up next, we have Sarah, who is in Kentucky. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks so much for having me on.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help today?

Okay. So, my best friend um claims to

essentially live by the Ramsay method, but nothing they do is

like Ramsay approved, I guess you could say. >> Oh, no. What do they What do they do, Sarah?

>> Well, okay. So, since I've been friends with her, which was starting at the beginning of the year, like they have owned like four or five different vehicles.

like they're constantly buying and trading and and they claim they make money off of these vehicles and I'm thinking like >> buying a $9,000 vehicle to make four grand doesn't make sense. >> Well, are they paying cash for it?

>> No. >> Oh, okay. Why does it What do you care?

Why do you care?

>> Cuz it kind of drives me crazy.

>> So, >> because I know like what they're doing.

like they just went out and bought a $120,000 Escalade and I literally was

like, "You all could have paid off half of your mortgage for what you just spent on this car." She says, "Well, I get too many tax deductions from having a house.

I don't want to pay off mortgage." >> So, she doesn't follow the Ramsay plan, but you do.

>> Yes, I have. Yes, I've started listening to you all in the last few months. I've just got my thousand dollar saved up and I'm working towards >> um I've got like $3,000 of debt, so I'm

working on that. But yeah, I I listen to you guys every single day. I clean houses for a living and I'm a single mom, so I have nothing but time on my hands to listen. >> You're amazing. Okay, so how can we how can we help you? >> I'm going to help I'm gonna help you right now. >> But what's your what's what's the what Yeah. How what can we do for you today?

I I struggle being their friends because of the lifestyle that they live.

>> There you go. >> Sarah, I'm going to tell you what I tell my son all the time.

>> Okay. So, I can tell my son, >> "Prince, go upstairs and brush your teeth." And the minute I say that, he's like, "Well, Zezy didn't brush her teeth." And he's always looking over at what she's cuz I've given him a responsibility and he wants to make sure that the other person has to do their responsibility as well. And I told him the other day, I said, "You want to know what you need to do, Prince? Just mind your business. Take care of yourself.

>> Take care of yourself and mind your own business. And I, you know, she'll get

dealt with. Don't worry about that. I'm looking and I see what she's doing over here. You don't have to worry about that. Just mind your own business and go brush your teeth. And I would tell you the same thing, Sarah. Mind your own business and pay off your debt. And if

she's your friend and she's like, "Well, I'm doing the baby steps, too." All you have to do is say, "No, you're not." >> Or just smile. >> And just smile. that sweet Kentucky

southern passive aggressive to smile and nod. Bless your heart. >> It's all you need to do. You just look at her and smile. >> It stresses me so bad here.

>> Okay. So, hey, okay, but you're but it's not your bills. You know what I mean? Now, now Sarah, I will say I will say there there there is um and I don't want

this to sound isolating this comment, but just the idea of when you shift your mind and you change your mind, you do start to want to gravitate towards people that are like-minded.

>> That's true. >> And so there may be a point and I'm not saying you can't be friends with people in debt. Okay. My I mean like >> if we live by that we would have probably >> have no friends.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's not even that. It's not an isolating comment, but I think it's good self-awareness to say, "Wow, I have changed the way I'm viewing this part of my life." And people that are not congruent with it, I can feel this like tension point.

And man, it kind of sucks that I feel like I'm like, you know, growing in this area and other people aren't. And you're going to probably feel that tension. And over time, does that naturally maybe, you know, start to separate you guys? I don't know.

Maybe, Sarah. I have no idea. Um, >> I mean, we go to church together and everything. I feel like there's no getting away from her.

I'll just be honest. >> Well, do you want to get away from him for other reasons, too? It sounds like maybe you do. >> Is she like a just not a fun person?

Cuz Yeah, if that's the case. >> Well, no.

anything. Like she has a little boutique she's been running on the side and she claims to make like 10 or 15 grand a month off of this business. >> What's wrong with that? And I know that.

>> What do you mean? What's wrong with it? >> What can I tell you? I'm I'm your buddy right now. I'm I'm going to be your >> So, y'all aren't going to offend me. I promise. I want y'all to be open.

>> I think there's certain things that I'm tracking with you where I'm like, yeah, that could be a little bit annoying or, you know, yeah, she's wrong. But there are certain things, Sarah, that you're saying that actually sound a little bit like you're kind of hating on him a little bit.

I just she's not considerate of like my life if

that makes sense. Like she has nothing to do. She doesn't have a job or anything. >> But you said she runs a boutique. Her life is different from yours. And Sarah, she might >> But she doesn't like she only does events. >> That's okay. She may Sarah, she could do less. She could be putting in less hours than you and making more money than you.

And you cannot hate on her for that. And

Sarah, her and her husband can buy

whatever cars they want.

They can. And I get it that you don't like it, but that doesn't affect you.

And you're letting it get too much in your life. And as much as you think that she's not being a good friend right now, you're also not being that great of a friend because you're hating on her a little bit.

And this is just be me being a good friend to you.

I don't I don't want to feel like I'm h I don't want it to seem like I'm hating on them. It's just >> I know >> the lifestyle they live and she like and she's well we live a normal life and I'm

just like no you don't though like I

just >> I don't we've only been friends for like nine months. So I mean it's this is all kind of really new for me and >> yeah I think you here's what I think. I think you're a really hard worker and I think you know how to grind and I think you know how to you know what I'm saying? You're willing to put in lots of work.

you you understand struggle. You you're ready to get in the ring all the time. I can sense that about you. And I think it's irking you that somebody is acting like they're working as hard as you when you're like, "No, you're not." And I get that.

>> She does. She does. And and my friend Amanda from church, she's like, "It's all about perspective with the work." And I get that. I do get that.

>> I know that. Well, and Sarah, so I think and and I've had to do this for myself throughout the years, too, because >> when you're comparing your life to someone else, I wanted to blame the other person. And I even in my head would sometimes be like, I bet they're on the trip to Europe on credit cards, and I bet they can't even afford. Here I am, and I have to wait another six months, so we go on, you know, I mean, you make up a story about someone and I had to finally tell myself, Rachel, you don't know.

You don't know how hard they work. You don't know how much money they actually make.

You don't know. And I shouldn't know.

It's none of my business. And actually, the problem is not them. It was me. It's me.

In the comparison world, we want to blame social media. We want to blame the neighbor. We want to blame everyone else. >> But to be honest, it ends up being more of our issue.

And so where can you get to a point Sarah that number one you are confident in who you are and the choices you're making around money and your lifestyle that when other people come up and that their lifestyle looks so different than you andor you know you have thoughts about it if you get could get to the point where you just think honestly like you know good good for y'all great job okay and I get to move on because the amount of energy and effort that she's >> in your brain right now like the the the rent freeze space that she has in your brain.

Sarah, it's not worth it. Now, the friendship element, if Dr. John Zaloney was sitting here, we could have a relational conversation of, hey, she may not be somebody that you guys share similar values, and I'm probably not >> kept a lot of friends throughout. Like, she's not been able to ever keep friends over long term.

>> Then that's great to know. Then I would put that in your data in your head of okay, she may be a she may be a hard person to love and be in relationship with, and that's okay. But we can be kind. We can be curious and not judgmental.

Um, and y'all go to church, Sarah. Let's let's bring some of this peace and patience and kindness and goodness.

Even though some people are hard to love and as as my dad says, some children of God are stupid children, right? Like there are some, but I think we can say it all. But have a level of grace for

her um and yourself. And it's okay to have boundaries, Sarah. If you need to put up relational boundaries with her, that's okay, too.

[Music]

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Well, it's crazy to think, Jade, but the new year, it's approaching.

>> Oh my gosh, >> wild. We are we are in that se that fall

season where these months are going to fly. And I would encourage you guys not just to set goals in 2026, but learn how to reach them. And that's one reason we created the 2026 Ramsay goal planner. it

is here and always packed as it has been in years past with great money content um great spiritual content, relational content. So myself, Jade and Dr. John

Deloney are all in and we've put um our

our thoughts and um everything around

this planner because it is so important.

Especially those of you that love planners, you're going to love it because it has so much information. It has so many ways of calendars, weekly, monthly, like all you need in a great planner, it is here and it is selling

quickly. We only we don't have a ton left. Yeah. >> Uh and once these are done, we do not reorder them. So, we sell it every year.

So, do not wait. Get yours for $49.97

at ramseysolutions.com/store.

Or if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we will put a link below. But again, go get your 2026 Ramsay goal planner before they sell out. All right, let's go to Morgan in

Chicago. Hi, Morgan. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> All right, so my husband was laid off a couple months ago and I was recently promoted. Um, previously we were both making about 150,000 for a total of 300,000 for the household. and and with my promotion, I'm going to be now making $182,000.

Congrats. It's worth noting I work remotely and I have great work life balance. But as my husband starts to look for his next role and we look to start a family, my question is twofold.

One, can I quit my job to become a stay-at-home mom, Lord willing? And two, if I can, how much would my husband need to make in order to sustain our family?

>> Okay. So, are you do you guys have kids right now? >> We don't. No, but you're wanting to maybe start a family soon.

>> That is the hope. >> Okay, great. That's so fun.

>> I'm glad you're looking ahead. Do you guys own a house right now or where are you in the baby steps?

>> We do. We're in Chicago right now. We

have a mortgage. We just refinanced.

We're down to about $3,000 with our HOA

a month. Okay. >> Um we might need to look to moving to his family's from Pittsburgh and we might be thinking about moving there just as we look to grow the family.

Yeah, >> whenever people call in. So, I'll kind of tell you in reverse how this usually happens. Usually what ends up happening is one spouse wants to stay home and the biggest issue and the biggest barrier to that is their mortgage, right? Because once they lose that other income, the mortgage, which was 25% of their take-home becomes 50% of their takehome, right? >> So, that's really one of the biggest uh

pitfalls that if you can avoid that, yeah, you're setting yourself up for success. So, your income going up to 182

and his remaining at 150. Yeah. The

question is, can you guys live off of 150 or whatever it is that you foresee his income to be in the next year or two whenever the family starts,

>> right? And I think right now the issue is he was in consulting and that market has taken quite a hit and he's looking to move into a different industry. So he might have to take he's a CPA and a certified treasury professional. So we're hoping that those certifications will help him parlay into what he's looking to move into. But the likelihood is that he's probably going to be taking a pay cut moving down into like the 90 $100,000 range. And so that would it

would change our lifestyle, how we tie

>> everything about our budget. >> That's a big I mean that's a $200,000

jump down, >> right? Um, do you guys have any debt?

>> We don't, thankfully. >> Okay, that's >> And why do you guys feel like he's automatically going to make less? Like, is there anything that from what he's done in the past and you know what I mean? Like, why is there an industry that he can enter >> into? Yeah. >> That he loves and make more.

>> That would be I mean, that'd be an answered prayer for sure. I'm definitely in the camp that I think he's got he was eight years at a big four consulting firm which people kill for that kind of experience. Yeah. I think when you're in consulting sometimes though you're kind of a jack of all trades a master of none and so it's hard for him to find an

industry role where he has the exact background that they're looking for and the the market's just bad right now in general for hiring. So >> yeah. Well, the good thing is y'all aren't in a r, you know, you're not in a rush. If anything, by next month, maybe you have nine months, right?

I mean, like if if it if it happens quickly and if you guys decide to start now, but maybe you guys are like, well hey, we'll wait or maybe it takes a little longer. We don't know. So, the good thing is you guys have time. I ju we just see on this show a lot and I'm going to sound like Dave because I feel like he went on this rant last time I was on the show with him that this it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy of people that change jobs >> automatically think they're going to make less.

And so there's and I'm not this like person like oh just think it and it's going to happen.

But but be aggressive like like have some level of gumption and confidence of like oh no you do have he does have experience and like you just said people would kill for that kind of experience. And I understand that it's a little bit more of a broad thing and he wants to go more specific. I get all that but as you guys are looking don't just assume oh he's going to make less. So have him you know I mean like I don't know I I would have a little bit more pep in his step and belief in himself too.

uh so that it's not an automatic pay grade. Number one. And then yeah, number two, Morgan, I think you guys will have to, you know, make some calls um when that re when the reality really hits. I really appreciate you guys planning and thinking ahead.

Um but when the reality actually sets in, when you know, when you become pregnant and all of that that you're going to really get to kind of crunch numbers and see, right, >> okay, are we going to be able to afford to stay in Chicago? Are we going to make the move now? you know, it's going to answer, I think, a lot of questions depending on what job he takes.

that 9month period, he's going to find something great. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I the best thing you could do is to test it >> before it's actually real. And I mean, it's going to be hard with a $3,000 a month mortgage, but >> get a sense and say, "Okay, for the next two months, we're going to live >> off of the, you know, the net amount of $100,000, and let's see what that feels like." And you have the luxury of

testing that to see and just get a sense of it. And if you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is not what I thought it was going to be." Then then you can start talking about what does that mean? Right. So yeah, test it. Put it in into real >> into real life.

>> Yeah, that's wise. Thank you guys. I appreciate that. >> Yep. Absolutely. Morgan, good luck to you guys. All right. Up next, we have Trenton in Los Angeles. Hi, Trenton.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. How are you both doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Hey. Uh, so it revolves around uh 401k plans. I have like three of them uh from

power companies that I've worked with.

>> Would you guys suggest to to bring them into one like combine them into one or keep them as is? And if so, what's the smoothest way to do that? And is there any like investment firm or uh company that you would recommend putting them in? >> Well, I would roll them all probably into just one IRA is probably the easiest way from a tax position. And um

do you have a financial planner that you are working with in general?

>> No. >> No. Okay. So, if you go to Ramseyolutions.com, look up smartvestor pro, we have smart investors all over the country that um that do it the Ramsay way, if you will. And so, they'll be able to help you not only just make that move, but hopefully tutor and look at your entire financial picture, too.

Um and just kind of get an idea. Um because yeah, there's always, you know, when it comes to these kind of things, always the tax implications and everything, but usually the smartest way is to roll all prior 401ks into an IRA.

>> Okay, >> good question. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Yeah, that's one thing, Jade, I feel like I have um learned and become more

and more uh a pro of is getting a financial planner in your corner. >> Yeah. uh when you're on baby steps four, five, and six and you are starting this process of building wealth and investing in retirement and all of it, having >> someone who does this day in and day out be able to look and to help with, you know, and in short, if you're still listening, you know, put actually investing those things in good growth stock mutual funds and good index funds, like whatever that looks like, diversifying and being wise about it.

Um, you know, if you have like one little investment and you want to do it on your own in Vanguard or something, you know, that's fine. But there's something about someone looking over everything, especially once you're debtree and you're looking to pay off the mortgage and you're far down the baby steps. >> Mhm. >> It is.

It's so helpful. >> Especially as you get I feel like as you get older, especially when you're thinking about maybe I can retire. What do I need to have in place if I think I'm going to retire early?

>> Yep. The estate planning and all of it.

So, yeah, Triton, great great question.

Hope that helps. And uh yeah, we'll see

you guys next hour.

Heat.

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Heat.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz and we are going to the phones. First up, we have Donna in San

Antonio. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it. >> Yes, absolutely.

>> Okay, so my husband has a student loan

that is currently in deferment. It's been in deferment over 10 years. Um, but

prior to that, it was in default. It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000.

>> We got >> Yeah, pretty scary.

>> I know. I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it. We got married four years ago. His situation is he's 66, close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets, not really no any no savings.

I'm 57, probably going to work for another 5 years. I've got about 1.4 million in investment assets, which are owned free and clear. We both have a joint account

with Charles Schwab which has about 200,000 in it but it's fully funded by me and then we have two other properties in both of our names.

>> Couple of questions. How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him?

I'm willing to pay up to 100,000 for it.

And how do I protect myself?

>> Are they private loans or federal loans?

>> So um they're federal loans. Gosh,

>> they they were they were well I believe they're federal loans. See, I've had trouble with this. They were federal loans and then they were consolidated.

>> Okay. >> Um so, and from what I understand, you know, I've been to so many different places and I keep hitting a brick wall.

It's like nobody can really give me the right answers.

>> Um I've been told I I can't negotiate.

>> If they're federal, you can't negotiate.

If they're private, >> um, you can, but if the whole lump of them, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe.

>> So, what what's his best route? Um, does he just keep deferring it?

>> No. >> I mean, he he will never be able to pay these off. You know, he'll never be able to pay it. >> So, what tell me about the properties because I I'm going to here I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do and then we'll explain it.

We're gonna approach this as any married couple would who has dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life, in money, and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off. Um, I'm just >> Well, there there's Yeah, there's definitely money.

I mean, we've only been married four years. All of those assets are mine. I

mean, I've done what I needed to do and I've built >> How many marriages have you guys had in the past, Donna? Is this Is this >> He's been married once before and so have I. >> Okay. So, it's both second marriages.

Okay. Did you do a prenup at all?

>> Um, no, we didn't do We have our wills,

but we didn't do a prenup. No.

>> Okay. What can I ask a little bit about that? Um, so I'm hearing you talk and it

sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built.

>> Um, but you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that. Like, how did you how did you view that?

>> I didn't realize how um, you know, I

don't know. What can I say? We're soulmates, you know.

>> Okay. Listen, that's good to know.

We're soulmates and and you know he's a wonderful man and I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. I'm more concerned about protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in a lender coming in and taking >> Got it. Okay. So, in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it sounded at first like when you said, "Oh, I'm only willing to put 100,000 towards this." It sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him, right?

like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt. That's the way it sounded at first, but now it sounds like that's not the issue. And if that's the case, can you tell us about these properties? Cuz the money might be there to get free

and clear of this. >> All it's all real estate basically. Um and again, they're all owned free and clear, >> right? >> How much how much are each of the properties?

>> Um how much am I into the properties?

Probably, you know, five or 600,000.

>> So tell us probably around five or 600.

Tell us property one. What's property one worth?

>> Um, so I've got um a condo which is

probably worth around 200,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, I've got another house which is around 250.

Um, I've got another condo which is probably also around um 200,000.

>> Are they all owned free and clear?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yes, they are. >> Good for you. >> You've done great. Donna, did you know about his debt going into the marriage?

>> I didn't. I knew he What happened is his

his wife, his previous wife handled all the finances. She was a stay-at-home.

She did some funky stuff with their finances and he did he thought his he thought his student loans were paid off.

>> He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year

>> that he was in default. He didn't even know. >> Got it. So it really was like a big shock and then you know he just sometimes men just >> ignore things.

>> Yeah. It was I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him and he pretty much just put it to the side. So I knew there was something I didn't realize. >> How many years did he put it to the side?

>> Uh probably about 13 years total.

>> Okay. So there's there's enough of a um

that the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to though, >> right? Well, now >> that's got to bother you, right? Does that bother you? Is that >> Of course it does. Of course it does.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

>> Um but right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband. I want to figure out.

>> And you guys are in your what? 50. Did you say 57 and 66?

>> He's Yeah. Yeah. He's 66. I'm 57.

>> Okay. He has why does he have no what what's he been doing like like with retirement and all that?

>> He he pretty much uh gave everything to

her in the divorce

of other situations.

>> He he was like no contest. Just give her what she wants. >> Give her what she wants. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Um is he working?

>> Um he works for me actually. I have a business so he does work for me. Yeah.

>> Okay. How much is he making?

>> Um, we just have him making something like around 50,000. So, we've been keeping it low. You know, we do we do sort of um um you know, uh W2. We

>> Is real estate your business? Is is that your business? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um so, there's I I hear two things going on here. Um I think you're committed to this guy. I you know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off. That's probably the choice that I would make. I think you guys

>> I'm worried that

>> and I'm I'm going to say this ever so delicately. There's an there's a balance of power here that is >> feels off. And I think that if you don't

address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line.

>> And I think you need to sit with a counsel. Do you see what I'm saying?

>> I think you need understand that completely. >> You need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just taking care of this guy.

>> And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing whatever it is they're going to contribute. But you should feel good about it.

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>> Up next we have Hannah in Missouri. Hi

Hannah, welcome to the show.

>> Hey Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I am recently divorced with two small children. >> I'm sorry. >> I was married to a guy that's been married three times before. Um I was stupid. I was young. Clearly, clearly paying for it now. Um >> he has wrapped us into an insane amount of debt. Um and I can barely keep my

head above water. And I knew divorcing him that he would leave me with everything and not help with the children. >> That's exactly what he did. Um, sorry.

>> I It's taken me a while to try to figure out what to do now. Um, I am a nurse. I

have worked. Um, I have a pretty good job now. And I just I'm going to lose

everything. >> Um, cuz he's not paying for everything or helping me. And he's so sorry. and

he's doing it on purpose. Um, I have

$40,000 in business loans from his failed business because he talked me into the world and he did this to multiple women before.

>> I have $40,000 in student loans. I have a $60,000 car I'm left with from him because he had this lavish lifestyle and I just couldn't say no because we gave

him what he wanted until he was happy.

>> Okay, >> he has stopped paying for everything. I landed a pretty pretty high paying nursing job and it's pretty pretty good.

I'm right now I'm working two full-time jobs to try to get this stuff paid off while paying for child care by myself.

>> I live in a small one-bedroom with two small children just trying to get everything taken care of. And I don't qualify for chapter 13 bankruptcy or 7.

I qualified for 13 but at the highest payment plan which is what I'm doing.

>> Yeah. I have probably $200,000 in debt

and I don't know if I need to just quit my job and give everything back or what I did. >> No. So, this this was at this $100,000

the 40,000 loan, the 40,000 of student loans, 60,000 car that was after it was split amongst you.

>> That's that it was and he he was court ordered to pay these and he has not and he's still in your body else.

>> And they're still in your name. Okay.

>> So, the car who has possession of the car? >> I have the car was awarded to me.

>> Okay. And you said it's it you you have

to pay 60,000 on it. If you sold it today, what would you get for it?

>> 33,000.

>> Okay. And then the student loans, are those his student loans or they're yours? >> Those are those are mine. Okay. Those are mine. And it's about 40 40,000. It's nothing super, you know.

>> Okay. and the business loan, if you were to um if you were to force a refinance

on that to get him off of it, like is he

supposed to be paying that loan, but he's not, or was that awarded to you, the 40,000 business loan?

>> He was. He was. But I can go pay $10,000

to file contempt and then get money out

of a guy that he quit his job and he's on military disability.

>> Well, no, no, no. I'm not saying to pay >> I'm not saying you do that, but I'm saying if he if the court said that he's supposed to pay the $40,000 loan, but he's not paying it and your name is on it, you should be able to force him to refinance to get your name off of it >> because so that you can be free and clear. >> And what happens when you bring that before the judge? What happens?

>> I I have to pay another $10,000 to to go

forward with it. He just will not do it.

He won't do anything. >> Yeah. No, but the court can force it though is what Jade's saying.

>> I I guess I haven't done that. I I This is so new. I've been in a panic.

>> Hannah, when did all when did all this when did all this happen?

>> March of this year. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, it's fresh. >> Very new. Yep.

>> Yeah. >> And I say I can't modify anything for at least a year. So, I'm I'm just He just dumped everything on me in June,

>> including the children.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, well, whatever the the

divorce decree says of what debts are

his and what debts are yours, and this 40,000 they said is his, correct? Even though your name's on it, but they through your divorce, >> that's his, right?

>> So, so yeah, I would I would contact your Do you have a lawyer still?

>> Uh, I do, but she just wants money.

She's not helpful at all. >> Okay. Well, maybe let's find someone helpful. um because >> $5,000 to to take it to to go forward

with this and I could just pay $5,000 to something and pay it off. So, I'm really struggling with with that. >> Well, if she's not a good if she's not a good attorney, find a new one >> and that's okay for you to do.

>> Yeah. >> Um and

yeah, what Rachel said is absolutely the case. You've got to go with what the courts have said and if he's not uploading, you know, upholding his side, you've got to you've got to force that into action. So, it sounds like the only ones that truly are your burden is the hundred,000, right? The student loan in the car. Is that if we're really talking about who owns what? Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's focus on that for now because today in this moment, you can't change the situation of the business loan. That will come. for now. And my guess my guess is that your credit is decimated anyway. Am I wrong?

>> Oh, it's just >> Okay, it's right. >> So then it doesn't m right now literally it doesn't matter, right? The damage is done and find find a little bit of freedom in that honestly that it can't get that it can't get worse.

>> Yep. You know, exactly. Y >> So I love that you're making a lot of money. You're doing so well on that side. You're able to, you know, pay for daycare. So, let's reorganize your budget and make it to where we're accounting for four walls first, which is you're making your rent, you're making sure there's transportation, you're making sure there's utilities, you're making sure that you're eating, right? That's number one. And then right after that, number five is daycare, right? Cuz the kids have to go to daycare so you can work.

>> Then after that, if there's still money, now we can start going down priority after priority hand and making sure that everything is accounted for. And if there's money now, we can start the debt snowball. >> Yes. >> So, are these the only two debts you have in the whole world?

>> Um, I have a credit card with like 7,000 on it and I owe $4,000 left to the IRS from back taxes and I'm making thousand payments on those each month. Just >> Okay. >> Okay. So, so let's focus on the IRS first. How about that? Like make it real small. >> How much are you bringing home a month, Hannah? >> Um, about 11,000.

>> 11,000. Okay, that's great. Yeah, you do have a great job. Um, you know, one of

the biggest burdens is this car, the $60,000 car, and it's um it's teetering

right there at it's unmanageable because how much is the payment a month?

>> 1300. >> Okay. So, >> yes, >> honestly, and I know your credit's terrific because the the >> the easiest way to do it would to go get a, you know, go get a $38,000 loan, pay

off the car, and then take 6,000 and go

get a crappy car just to get you back and forth to work and to daycare, right? I mean, like, that would be the ideal.

With the credit being shot, that's going to be really difficult. So, I'm wondering if there's a credit union or someone in your town that you can sit down and explain the situation, bring

records, you know, >> my sister is willing to to cosign or put

a car in her name under $30,000 if I just give this Jeep back, this r this wagon ear. Can I do that or am I going

to is it going to be a problem if I just hand the keys to the bank and walk away?

My sister will get a car for me and I'll make those payments. I didn't know if that was an option or if I'm going to pay for that in the future. >> No, because you're still going to be if if you surrender this car, they're going to take it and they're going to auction it and whatever the difference is on the 60,000 loan, you're still going to have to pay. >> Well, how did where did you get the $33,000 number? Cuz wagon ears are nice.

>> Yeah, but their their value is horrible.

>> Oh, is it? They go horrible.

>> Is that Kelly Blue Book during bankruptcy? Kelly Blue Book. Yeah.

>> Okay. Shoot. Oh, man. I didn't know that. When I see them, I'm always like >> I know they look nice, but they drop like a rock. They're terrible. Yeah, >> they have no value. When you when you turn them in, you are absolutely hosed with them. They're $100,000 and you'll get 20,000 for them.

>> So, one of my biggest goals for you would be um

twofold. The first one, and I think that this car is huge cuz it's $1,300 a month. I would exhaust everything because anything is better than you having you owing 38 is better than you owing 60 >> basically at just about any term >> 100%. >> You know, so see scour and find yes to

see if you can get any kind of loan to be able to pay off the difference and then get you a crappy car with it. But hey Hannah, hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with one of our certified financial counselors to walk with you cuz as a single mom juggling all of this um to have someone sit down and actually run the numbers longer than just 8 minutes of what Jade and I can do. Um we want to give that to you as a gift, Hannah.

And you're doing incredible.

You're incredible fighter. >> Yes. >> And we're here for you, Hannah.

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If you are wondering where you are on the baby steps or even how to keep track of your your financial situation and the baby steps, make sure to check out our quiz um to see your progress and you can actually receive a personalized plan just for you when it comes to the Ramsay baby steps. So, just go to the show notes and click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. All right, we have Susan in Arkansas coming up next. Hi,

Susan. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. My husband and I are on We finished all the baby steps. My husband's 67. I'm 61.

He is going to go into a partial retirement next summer and uh our net

worth including our home is about 3.5 million. >> Oh wow. Good for you guys.

>> But the 2.5 of that is you know not not

the home and a I guess a million of that is in brokerage and then the two point 1.5 is in um IAS.

>> Okay. So the question is um we have a a

son and daughter-in-law that live about 5 hours away from us in a very uh booming market and they're just having a growing family and it's just so important to us to be close to family and we're running up there all the time staying in hotels and being guests and all that and >> we are really wondering if it would be

wise to buy a small house maybe three

we're looking at there are some starter home neighborhoods for like you could get a we could get a brand new house for 350,000 um you know like 1,600 square f feet just something that we could stay in when we go up there. The thing is we are going to be probably relocating in about three years to to that city.

>> Oh.

>> So but you know but we have three years to be going back and forth and all that.

We want to be up there more because the babies are babies right now. Sure.

>> So, um you know, it's been suggested that we would rent maybe something for a couple years and then makes a big move in three years. But it's such a booming

market um that,

you know, when when we're not up there, it it would just be sitting in there. We'd be paying rent on it. But if we buy, we'd be we would be building equity. >> Yeah. How far away?

>> What is your >> How far away? >> About It's about five hours away. Okay.

And in three, what's the three-year mark? Is that his retirement when he's done fully?

>> Yes. So, he that's a step down retirement, you know, and so he'll be he'll be needing to be in our our town right now. >> Well, and you guys can cash flow a 350 a 350 home right now, right?

>> We could. Yeah. >> So, I would probably just do that.

Susan, I would not rent.

>> No. >> I would either just make just have a little hotel fund and know you'll be staying in a lot of hotels for the next three years and that's okay. Or I would just go ahead and buy it. >> And buy it. >> Yeah. Because it'd be trading one asset for the other, right?

>> What? What? >> It' be trading c it'd be trading some of our net worth right now for >> it would. But you're going to sell your home in Arkansas to move full-time in three years. How much is your house in Arkansas worth?

>> About a million. >> Okay, great. >> Great. So that's great. Then I would just >> put that in about our house is it's it's about 5 years old. It's brand, you know, but if we wait too long, it's not going to be brand. It's not going to be as new as it is right now. >> It's just three years, Susan. You're fine. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I'm not concerned about any part of this. >> No, >> you're not concerned about any of that.

I guess it's just I love where we are finally, you know, >> with the baby steps and all that. And >> yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. >> Well, you're not taking any sort of a step backwards if that's the way it feels. >> You're just shifting assets from retirement to a home. And then when you guys sell your million-dollar home in Arkansas in three years, oh my gosh, >> that's going to be a nice chunk of change. >> You'll just put reinvest back in and keep on moving.

>> Yeah. And just move up there and sell fill the smaller house and just get the forever house, I guess.

>> Oh. >> Oh. >> So, you would sell the $350,000 house by your family and get a bigger, >> right? >> Okay. Then I would not do I'm sorry. I thought that I thought the home you're going to buy now is just the home you guys would retire. >> Me, too. >> No. No. >> Okay. Then I would not short-term thing.

Then I would not. No. You do not need to be in real estate for three years. No.

No. So I would just either stay with fa

stay with family, stay in a hotel for it's just three years. >> It's just three years. You can do this.

>> And then when you guys sell in Arkansas, I would move a million dollars from Arkansas, a million dollars to where you are and just >> just break even.

>> Okay. So don't don't do it. What if what if we would keep it as a I don't know

rental proper property or whatever. How how long is what's the least amount of time to stay in real estate?

>> I mean I'd say five >> five years probably.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, that's this is a

different question and I I don't So, if you bought the $350,000 house today, you

lived in it, and then the plan was when you're ready to live there full-time, that becomes a rental, and then would you turn around and buy the next house in cash or would you be thinking that there's some sort of mortgage on that?

Um, we would take the million that we'd sell in our current home, you know, and >> okay, >> and put another home in this other in

this other location is very expensive.

So, right down a little bit.

>> Okay. But you wouldn't take a mortgage at all. >> No. >> So, that Yeah. So, then that's just a question for you guys, Susan. If if you enjoy real estate, do you all want to be landlords in retirement? So, you know, that's I mean, I come from a real estate family. I love it. I think that that's so fun. like diversifying and all of that, but also Susan, you're going to get calls >> and >> you know John Yeah. John and Sue who's

written from you, their thing is they're you know it's broke and you and you guys are going to have to coordinate. I mean it's a it's a little bit of a job like you got so it's not an so it's not >> one thing about investments that's great is you put it in, you leave it and there's no hassle and you get the returns and you live your great life.

Real estate is a fun investment, but it's but for you guys, it's going to be less about building equity in the home itself to you, unless you guys want to sell it in 15 years, but you it may just

be more of a um generational >> property even. Um I don't know, you want to look longterm at it, but just know that the rental game, I think it's um it's fine, but usually where you make your money is not the rent monthtomonth, it's the equity built in the home.

>> Um is usually what you what you get. and buying um and usually you try to get a deal which buying a brand new home wouldn't be that you're not going to get that but you guys you could afford it so you're fine. So it' just be a question for you and your husband. Do you all want to be landlords >> um in retirement? >> So it just be it would be >> not you would definitely not do it if we were not going to rent it later.

>> Yeah. >> If we would if we buy buy it for three years, we would not do that.

>> Well, I think this plan would cause you to decide to make a different choice on the house that you might purchase short term. Yeah. >> Does that make sense? because you're gonna want to think about it as the rental later, not as the house that you're enjoying now.

If that makes sense. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But if you're not wanting to rent it out and be landlords, you're like, "No, that sounds like a headache.

I would not buy until you're there full-time >> cuz because a turnaround of buying a brand new home at 350 >> in 3 years, we hope it goes up. I I mean I don't know but there's always always that risk that you're maybe buying at the high end >> and then in three years everything kind of like softens a little bit and you end up losing money on it which we don't want >> um if that is the case because it is such a short turnaround. So, yeah.

patient and wait three years and then just buy the million-doll home and then the 350 stays in the IRA and you guys just continue on. Gota >> Okay. Well, that's a Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a great option. >> Wonderful. Thanks, Susan. Good question.

And what a what a great uh what a great problem to have. How sweet. Just so yeah, thinking through like the family and >> how do I want to spend my 3.5 million?

>> Yes, I know. I know. I mean, well done, Susan. Well done. But that is a um it can be a misnomer and I think real estate can feel um like a glamorous oh

my gosh sophisticated like I'm in real we're in real estate and we have investments and real estate investing you know it just >> it is a part and I think it's a it can be a great part and I think it's like if you're interested in it and it's what you love >> um you know we're not against it by any means but >> but it's not passive >> not passive income. That's right. Yeah.

And usually with it, what you're how

you're making your money is the equity of the home of the actual property. When you sell it, you make a lot. That that's the key. It's not always the monthly rentals. That's like, you know, that's not the thing that's going to do everything for you. It's really the equity that you're building in. But it's a great question, Susan.

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All right, up next we have Josh in Illinois. Hi Josh, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you both for your time.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Yes, so we've got open enrollment right around the corner and I am just trying to get as much counsel as possible uh when it comes to making a decision on healthcare plan. I have heard a lot of good things said by you and others about health savings accounts and we do have that option. We have a high deductible plan that has a health savings account and I'm just wondering under what circumstances, if any, would you recommend that someone not opt for such a plan?

>> Yeah, I I love a high deductible plan. I have a high deductible plan. I love the HSA for the obvious reasons. Um, the

reason that I chose it though was not because of the HSA, although that's a perk. I chose it because it really is the best health plan if you are healthy.

You know, you're kind of in that realm where I go I do my yearly physical. You know, I I pop in maybe one other time if you know, somebody has a flu or you you're not in the in and out of the hospital. You're not, you know, doing all of these um, you know, doctor visits. So, basically, if you're young and if you're healthy, yeah, high deductible plan is good for you. If you're a person who knows that you have health concerns or your children have health concerns, then you would benefit

from a plan that has a lower deductible, right? Because you know you're going to hit that deductible every year and so you don't want it to be astronomical.

But for somebody if you are healthy then that's a great thing because the likelihood of you hitting the deduct deductible is really low if that makes sense. So are you young and healthy?

>> Uh I I would say so. Yes. I I don't have many health expenses or anything like that and um yeah, I guess in my research with this um I'm reading a lot of good things about it and I just want to make sure that oh you know the the grass doesn't look greener on this other side and then I try it out and you know I wind up getting burned which you know that is one thing that I had known to look out for. You know if you're going to be h having constant health problems I can see how that works.

Does that make sense? >> All right.

>> Yes, it does. And um so yeah, basically if someone is young and healthy, they're not going to be experiencing a lot of problems that they're not probably not going to have to uh meet that deductible anytime soon. Um you'd say it's pretty much a wise decision all around. Yes, >> I think so.

>> And that's what I have too. And the HSA, like Jade said, is a perk that you can use um for health expenses.

you know, investment vehicle, which is awesome, too. So, that's another great perk. But, yeah, so if you >> Yeah, young and healthy uh high deductible plan, I think, is um spot on.

So, I I do not think you'll get burned.

Um and worst case scenario, if something changes down the road, you can change your plan, too. So, that's something to think about. Yeah, that's a good moment to talk about the HSA because we mention it and a lot of people maybe don't know what it is or how it can help them. But I actually really like it. Uh once you're in baby step four and beyond, if you're beyond the point of, you know, maxing out a 401k or even a Roth, it's a

great place to put extra money. You can invest it. I think you have access to it at age 62 as a retirement fund. It's either 62 or 67. Double check me on that. Yeah. But that's a wonderful thing. And of course, yeah, uh you can pull money out at any time tax-free for medical expenses, that sort of thing.

It's growing taxree. So, it's really a really wonderful deal there.

>> Yeah. So, if you have an option for a health savings account, an HSA, it's a great one to tap into. All right. Next, let's go to Austin in Fort Meyers,

Florida. Hi, Austin.

>> Hello. Uh thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Uh yes, so I feel like I'm drowning here. Um, I've I've got about I got

74,200 in debt. Um, I went from making a little

over a 100red to now I'd be lucky to make 50 a year. Um, >> what happened?

>> Well, my work slowed down. It's kind of

seasonal here from what I found out.

>> What do you do? >> Um, I work as a service adviser at an automotive dealership. >> Okay. And um it really slowed down here for a few months and I wasn't making enough to even um pay our bills. So I left and

went to another automotive company.

Turns out it was even worse and they took me back. But when they took me back, they changed the pay plan.

>> Oh gosh. To like penalize you cuz you left. >> Well, they changed it for everyone, not just me. >> Okay. Okay. I hear you.

>> Did you know that going in?

Um, the day that I started and I found out. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh, that's strange.

>> Yeah. >> Was it just an assumption on your part?

Like, I'm just assuming I'll make the same amount. >> Yes. Yeah. Um, and I know season's about to pick up here soon. A lot of the snowbirds start to come back and that's where a lot of the income comes in.

>> Sure. >> Um, but it hasn't picked up yet either.

>> What? Let me go a little deeper on this.

What caused you to choose automotive? Is that was that like your field of choice or did you kind of end up there?

>> I just kind of ended up there. I've been in in there for seven or eight years now. So, >> okay. So, I think that this is a time

for a to consider the future like as a restart cuz I kind of feel like you fell

into this job. It was doing okay for you

and now it's not. So maybe it's time to

look up and go, okay, like what does what does Austin want to do? Like what do you want to be? And what do you want to continue to do? You know, where do you see yourself 5 years from now?

>> Mhm. >> And what I mean, if you >> How old are you, Austin?

>> Uh 28. >> Okay. Yeah. If if the world is anything for you, what would you what would you want it to be? If you could do anything to make money, what's like a dream?

>> I'd love to be, you know, a business business owner of some sort. Um, I did open a painting company. Um, I made

about 75 a year, but I need at least

around 100 to stay afloat. So, that didn't work out. >> Stay afloat because of the debt or because of >> Yeah, because of my debt. >> Okay. Do you Are you married with kids?

>> Yeah, I'm married. Three kids. >> Three kids. Okay. >> Um, how long did you do the painting business? >> Um, full-time about six months. I did

part-time, but I don't I don't really make much off of it. if it's part-time.

>> Well, I think that for 6 months of business, if you made 79,000, that's not bad.

>> Yeah. >> What if you continued? I mean, I got to believe if you continued, you would continue to grow that income. And 80 is not that far away from 100 that you're trying to get to when you're the one going out, you know, to quote Dave, going out, killing something, dragging it home.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I made it's 75, not quite

79, but >> I understand. But when when you're the one out getting a job and those jobs are, you know, 3,000 a pop or whatever it is, >> that's there's a lot more hope there that I can get to a number, right, than just waiting for somebody who's paying me, I don't know, $18 an hour to get there, right? >> So, >> I I don't dislike the idea of you

keeping the current job that you have now because it is money coming in whilst

you start up this painting thing again.

Because if you made 75,000 in 6 months,

you could surely go out and get a couple of clients and get that up and running in the next month or so doing painting jobs on the weekend or whatever your free time is. Am I wrong?

>> Well, that 75,000 was the average I was

headed towards for the year. I didn't make the 75 in that six months. I made about half that. >> That Okay. So, you never got to it. That was the projection. >> Yes. Yeah. Correct. >> Okay. So you were making you made 35 in 6 months, which is still it's not a bad side hustle.

>> Mhm. >> So why were you were you doing that just >> were you doing that on the weekends and at night? >> No, that was me. I I left the automotive business for for about 6 months to to do that. And >> so that was me full-time painting myself. >> Okay. Um yeah. So AA what I would do is

look at the debt. Um I would list out smallest to largest and attack the smallest one. if there's a car in there that you can sell uh to loosen up that 74. But I would be honestly doing the car during the day. I'd be painting in the afternoon. Yeah. Night and afternoon. >> And then, you know, maybe look for something else. Actually, hold on the line, Austin, and we'll give you Ken's book. Find the work you're wired to do.

Ken Coleman. Um just to kind of get those gears turning for you and maybe make some more income.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Going to

the phones, we have Sandra in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Hi Sandra. welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you both for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Uh well, for the last uh six years, I

have been giving my son uh money

uh for for various reasons. First, you know, it was around the COVID shutdown

and um and he's not very good with money

and and then he stopped asking me for

money uh and then he started again. So, um, I've I've given him like around $35,000.

Um, and I I want to stop. I I want him

to do better, >> you know, and I don't know how >> to do that.

>> I've tried to talk to him about this, but he >> I'm his mother, >> you know, so I don't know anything or I know everything. Let's put it that way.

>> Yes. That's right. That's right. Um, Sandra, how are you financially?

Uh, I'm I'm I'm good. Okay. I have a a

good job and I have good savings for my retirement. >> Yeah. And how old is he?

>> 47. >> 47. Does he have a family?

>> Yes, he's divorced, but he has one child at home. >> Okay. And what does he do for a living?

>> He works in the automotive business. Uh,

but he works I'm not sure what they call it, but he it's a press operator, not an operator, but he does the upkeep on the

uh presses. >> Okay. And when he calls for money, is it

um what's his like what's his reasoning?

Is it a situation that happens? Is it um monthtomonth he just needs a little bit to cover the bills? Like kind of what's what what what does he tell you?

Uh well um he um had he he's filed

bankruptcy twice. So this time he uh he

did not have they they do a recon reconsolidation and this time uh it made him he pays so

much for that that he can't afford his bills, his food and his gas. So that's

what he asked me for. He he says I hate to ask you but but I need money for gas and food. What's caused him to file bankruptcy? Is it all consumer debt or is he going into business debt?

>> I No, it's not business debt, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it's for because he doesn't involve me in that.

And and that's okay with me. Uh I I

don't want to know, you know. Uh now I do know he had some issues a couple of years ago and he got sorted out with that, but then he had >> like like addiction issues.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, is he living out a sober lifestyle right now? >> Yes, >> he is. Okay.

Um, >> how long ago was the divorce?

>> Uh, about seven years ago.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And were the bankruptcies after the divorce? >> Yes. >> Okay. Were they mostly >> first one was after the first divorce and the second one was after second divorce? >> Oh, he's been divorced twice. >> Okay, that's right. I forgot. Okay. Oh man. >> Boy. Oh boy. And can I I'm just trying what I'm trying to understand about him is is he still out of control or is he a

person who was out of control and has done some work to start getting his life back on track?

>> Um I I don't know. I I can't talk to him

about these things. It's uh very difficult to bring it up >> for you or for him or for both?

>> Both. Well, if I I'm I'm fearful to bring it up because he Well, I haven't

brought it up, so I don't know. I I'm fearful about what he might >> It's going to pain you to hear it.

>> Yes, it's going to pain me, of course.

>> Uh-huh. I think that if he were

I think that if he were truly in a place where he's on the other side of this behavior and he's really doing the work to be well, I think he would be initiating those conversations with you saying here's where I've been.

>> Here's where I am now. Great point.

>> And >> this is a way that if you wanted to support me, you could. Right. I think that he would have the maturity to do that since it sounds like he's not. I I

don't feeling it still feels like a little bit of all over the place.

>> And that's the sad reality, Sandra.

>> Yeah. Of what you're you're hitting that wall over and over again of the reality >> that you can't change people. You could give him $135,000

and it's not going to help him. Um Yes, I understand. And so the hard thing is too is um enablers are always the

kindest people, you know, and so that's your heart, Sandra, and it's your son. You know, Jade and I both have sons. And I'm like, I you do you you want you don't want your kids to suffer. You want to be able to help them. And I think the question is, how can I help him the best? and throwing money at a situation

um over and over again because he's not changing his habits I think is a is a

difficult reality but it is a reality and again >> I mean you go to the extreme we don't want to see our family members on the street right I mean like so like like there's there is a natural instinct that kicks in and that and that boundary can be drawn you know however you want it to be Sandra but I think at the end of the day knowing as his mom and as as painful

as the decisions that he's made in his life are um you can't change that until

he chooses to change. And so what you could say Jade I think was on a really great track mentally as you as you were talking through it Jade because if he if he comes to you and maybe you can even say it to him right like you guys can have this conversation of I want to see healing in your life. if I want to see change and if you save up x amount maybe

Sandra you could >> maybe match that amount right or or I don't know what it looks like but at least he's on a road to self-sufficiency

because that's the best thing for him >> um and if you can help him get there because he is making positive progress then maybe you can but just throwing money at a situation when there's no change that's hopeless

>> so I agree Um

yeah, I this is a tough situation no matter how you slice it. And I think for you for the short term, yeah, the I think maybe the first thing you do is you maybe you open up those lines of communication and then you can better assess the situation. But it sounds like now is not the time to give him money, >> right? But he's his bis the business that he works at is slowing down. So he

was off last week for one day. So, it's

not there's never been a good time for the last five years. >> Yeah. Then he needs to go get a job. He needs to go work at Target or something.

>> But if you give him the money, he won't, >> right? >> Yeah. He's got to he's got to figure out how to self- sustain >> as a 47y old, you know. Um he's going to

have to learn that at some point. And um

and that's and that's a that's a hard reality. >> How old's the kid?

Uh she she'll be 15 in January.

>> Okay. Now, I would be concerned about her. Um if you're looking and seeing

that maybe she's doesn't have some of the things that she needs in a serious way, I might step in for some things to

help with her. Um and I would do that in a very protected way. Does that make sense? Like if you look if you look over and realize, oh my gosh, they don't have like the heat's not on or something like that. I might reach over and pay that that, >> you know, either have her come stay with me or just pay the bill directly.

Something like that. I could see um

wanting to help a minor. >> Yes, for sure. That there's Yes. a vulnerable child in the mix. And yeah, and she doesn't need to suffer because of his decisions if if you are able to help in that way. But setting boundaries, um, it can feel so unloving,

but it may be one of the most loving things you can do, Sandra, for him.

>> Um, and especially since you're wanting to stop, you you feel it in your soul that this is not helping a situation, >> and it's going to be so hard and there may be some verbal backlash, but man, if

you if you hold that strong and hold that steady, I think there's a level of wisdom and clarity that comes with that when you remove yourself from a situation. [Music]

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Okay, today's question comes from Madison in Colorado. She says, "My

husband and I just celebrated our third anniversary. We're debt-free and currently working on baby step three. We both work full-time and after saving our emergency fund fund, the plan is to save as much as possible before our first child is born. My husband is changing careers and wants to wait a few months until he settled into his new career with a better paying job so he feels more confident in providing for our future family.

I know you tell people not to wait until everything is perfect to start a family. I absolutely agree with that. But I also agree with my husband that it's important to have more financial stability before we start trying. I've never met a man who wants children more than my husband and both of us feel sad and stressed about waiting.

I would love your advice on this. Okay. I I personally love this question. Um first off, let me just say it is 100% your choice.

you my thoughts, but it's your choice.

It's your family. It's your life. Um >> I don't think there's anything wrong with family planning. Yeah.

>> And this is kind of part of that, right?

You're saying, "Here's what we want our life to look like." And the biggest part

of that is whether you both agree on it.

Um, and I'm saying that, my husband and I, we made the decision that we wanted certain things in place before we started a family. And that was something that we agreed on. And there were moments where I was like, "Do I still We It was like something we had to check back in on, right? Because for us, the

idea was, hey, we'll pay off debt and then we'll start a family. But we also knew that that was a long journey to pay off the debt. So, it was kind of like checking back in like, are we still good on this? Cuz it's 3 years in, are we still good? You know, so if you both agree and you both like the idea of

whatever that is, him making x amount of dollars or whatever that goal is, then that's fine for now. But maybe you set it up and say, "Okay, like every six months, we're just going to revisit this. that like it can change. Yes, >> life can always change. >> It can. And your desire for when a baby

comes and when you want to start changes, too. I know it did for us. I thought we were going to wait a little bit longer and then I remember being like, I think I'm ready now. I think you're ready sooner.

So, yeah, that and then I would also say to remember, you know, once you get pregnant, >> there's still nine months. So, he's wanting to change jobs now, right? And wait a few months. Well, that's you guys could be doing it simultaneously as well.

So, just remember that. So yeah, we always say around here, don't feel like you have to have you have to have a certain financial benchmark. Like we do not say you have to be debtree before you start a family or you have to have XYZ, >> have a baby when you want to have a baby like what Jade said earlier. But if you personally say no, we want to wait because of a time frame, because of financial goal, if that's what you want, that's great.

>> Now, there is one thing I will say about what you wrote, Madison. Um, and I'll say this is giving me a little bit of like a I don't know what when the fact that you said we both feel sad and stressed about waiting. That's the part to me that I'm like I don't know about that because for me it gave me more

peace to wait because I was like I feel better waiting until I'm in a better spot. I feel more stressed about if I were to get pregnant today. So, the fact that your emotions, and don't get me wrong, sometimes our emotions don't line up with what we're doing in a moment, but for something like this, I kind of feel like they should >> listen to what you're desiring >> and the and the fact is what you're desiring >> is okay to desire it and actually >> happen. >> Yes.

>> So, you're not doing anything wrong if you guys choose to move forward. I mean, you guys are debtree. It's an emergency fund. Like, >> you're fine.

>> You're fine. I promise you are fine and you will figure it out. People do it all the time. and all the time.

So, the fact that I think you're exactly right, Jade, the fact that you wrote that last sentence. >> Uhhuh. You should feel good about the decisions you're making. If you're not feeling good, make a different decision.

So, it's a good question that we get that we get that question a lot about, you know, when do we get married? When do we have a baby? When do we start a family? All of it.

>> Um, I love talking about it with George Camel because he's always like my practical friend because he's like, I mean, you can have a baby whenever, but it sure is nice to have a baby when there's no debt. You know, they say like, I get that. I get that. Yes.

Come on.

Like, you know, usually people are like, "We wish we had them sooner now that we know what we know." kind of thing. So, >> and your situation, I'm like, you're >> if there were a crazy situation, yours is not it. You know what I mean? Like, you're not like, I'm in bankruptcy and we have nine I want we have nine kids and we want to have a tent. I'd be like, what's wrong with you? >> Totally. Totally. Oh, so good. All right, let's go to the phones. We'll go to Jessica in South Carolina. Hi,

Jessica.

>> Hi. How are y'all?

>> We are doing great. How can we help today?

>> Um, so I have a um a a decision to make.

Basically, our baby is coming February.

>> Another baby question. This is great. We were just talking about this. >> I literally I know. And I'm like, um, I

feel like y'all kind of answered my question a little bit, but I don't know. Our situation is a little bit different.

>> Yeah, tell us. >> Um, we, >> yeah, so we have a baby coming February 6, and I think it's >> smart for us to just go ahead by that time, we should have enough money in our savings account to actually pay off all our debt, and we'd be completely debtree. >> Awesome. Amazing.

>> But we wouldn't have nothing in our savings and we have a new baby. So, I don't know if it's smart to do that or I have no idea. >> Yes. Well, what we always say is while you're doing the baby steps and if you are on baby step two and you get pregnant, you go into STO mode, meaning

you just pile up a bunch of money. You just save save, just pay minimum payments, stay current on everything, and just save money. And then when baby comes and mom is good, baby's good, you go right back to the baby steps. And so that's what you guys did, Jessica, which is amazing. Like you literally are the textbook example of okay, we're going to save and save and save and then once we have the baby, we have enough money to become debtree. Um,000.

>> Yeah. So, how much how much money do you guys how much will you make >> the first month the baby's here? So, let's say you took everything out and you paid off all your debt. I would still want you to leave $1,000 for an emergency fund, but let's just say you pay off all your debt. You have your $1,000. How much money will be coming in income-wise that first month?

Um the first month's probably about 10,000. Um >> yeah, because I would still be getting paid from my job, my my pay

and my husband. >> So Jessica, if you had no debt, >> okay, no debt, no payments, but you had to pay the rent or the mortgage, the lights, utilities, all of that. If you had to pay your necessities, how much would be left in your budget?

>> Um table, all that? Probably about two

Oh, uh 2,000 is our monthly expenses cuz

we paid off our house 50.

>> Oh my gosh. >> I know it, >> Jessica. >> Wow. Okay. So, so you would have $8,000

month one after the debt's paid off. So, you're fine. >> So, >> yeah. I'm trying to tell my husband, but I don't know. >> Well, even if you had to wait two weeks or get the paycheck and then pay off the debt, like you're still going to be plus you're going to be positive 8,000. Even if you wait two weeks to pay off the debt till the paycheck hits, you can do that. But how amazing, Jessica, congratulations. How did y'all do that?

How did y'all pay off the house?

>> Um, so yeah, it was just every extra money. I mean, I made commission most of my um young life. Well, you know, I'm 30

now, but most of my life, my job was just making commission and um and all that extra commission. You get those good checks. I just put it on half, you know. I didn't, you know, spend crazy.

>> Unbelievable. Awesome. Good for you guys. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, yeah, if you wanted to hold your breath for 15 days till the next that paycheck hits and then you have your eight extra thousand, you could do that if that's if that if you got a new baby and you I get that.

If you are postpartum, you're three weeks in sleep deprived and you want to wait one paycheck before you pay off the debt. I am okay with that.

>> Wow. >> Okay. So, just kind of hold the money a little bit and so >> yeah, if you want to wait a month, that's fine. Yes. Yeah. You you guys are in a completely fine position. So, how much debt will you be paying off?

>> Um, so we have 45 um left and that's a

car and that's also my husband's pool.

So, >> and what's the house worth? Our house is

worth 220,000, >> girlfriend. That's what I'm talking about. Way to go, >> well done. Congratulations.

And with the baby, oh my gosh, having a new baby and all of this, you guys are just, you're killing it. And you're going to have so much peace. Like, what a beautiful thing. What a beautiful way to set up your life with these decisions.

You were making insane money in your 20s and you didn't do the insane stuff. You like literally did the boring stuff and paid off the mortgage >> and now you get to choose if you want to stay home.

Yeah. So many choices and options ahead, Jessica. So, we are we're cheering on you guys. Congratulations.

[Music]

[Music]

Up next we have Jocelyn in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi Jocelyn, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, so I I made this huge mistake um

about I think it it was like almost it was like four and a half years ago. I was with this guy and um I took out

loans for him because he didn't have good credit. So I took out I know.

>> So I took out I took out a business credit card >> um which was one loan and then I took out a personal loan which he used to um

buy like vehicles for his business and then I also took out a golf cart loan.

>> Okay. So fast forward and then two year

two he was paying everything at the time when we were together but it was always minimum payments. So in reality it probably didn't really pay that much.

>> Sure. >> So then so then two years ago we split up and he promised me like he would pay

pay me monthly. We got a new um

girlfriend and then of course you know he stopped paying me.

So when I left him, it was at like it was between 50 to $60,000 that I owed

>> and I've gotten it down to 20,000.

>> Oh, good.

>> Jeez. Thanks. Thanks. I So I sacrificed

by moving back home like in with my parents and then I just worked a lot.

I'm a nurse so I'm kind of lucky there I can find a good job. >> Yeah. >> Um so I was always stuck between like filing bankruptcy or paying it off. So, >> obviously bankruptcy is not an option.

But, um, I always just wonder like if I should try to go back and sue him to get the money. People always tell me to, but when I've looked into it, it's kind of like a gray area because >> if you're if your name's on it, >> I'm sorry. >> Cuz if your name's on the loan >> Yeah. >> there's kind a little bit of a dead end unless there was some kind of contract that you guys had. Any type of legal documents? Did he >> No. No, there was no legal documents.

the only like I have text messages of course where he'll be like, "Oh, I'm going to pay you stuff like that, but nothing legal documents.

>> I mean, you could get a consultation to

see, you know, but I really think that

for you, you're so close to being done.

You've got 20,000 to go and you could

just wash your hands of this entire situation." >> The cars that he bought with the loan,

were they were the cars under his name?

Yeah, they were under his name and the and the golf cart. It was really >> And he has all of it. >> Whoever's listening to this, don't make those mistakes. I'm sorry.

>> Does he have Does he have everything? He has the golf cart. He has cars.

>> He has the cars. Um the the the cars he

bought with like cash. They were like they were like vans for his trucking company >> and they ended up wrecked. So that could have been a sign. Um the this is a disaster. The golf cart. Well, luckily and then the golf cart the golf cart um is is in his name also. So I tried to call the bank because the loan's in my name, but and this all happened in Florida in the state of Florida. Whoever's name is in the title, it doesn't matter who the loan is, the person in the title owns it.

>> That's right. That's right. Um >> yeah, I mean there it seems like there's nothing to even try to seize if you wanted to ask him and say, "Hey, I bought I I bought these cars. the least you could do is send me one so I can sell it and get some of this money, right? But I I just

It sounds like that's not even a thing,

>> right? I mean, he's he's he's awall, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is he worth anything? Like, if like, let's just say, perfect world, you find um an attorney and they're like, "Oh, yeah, if you have text messages, we can prove this and take this to court and you can get your money back." Let's say they could. Could does he have any money? I mean, >> so that's the other thing is like cuz I was looking into it. I'm like I I mean

I'm sure I'm sure he has money but I don't know if like he would actually pay

me because when I look at online when they go to court like if they don't pay you they don't pay you. It's not I don't know

>> I think this guy is using women and I don't think he has >> and a part of me too Joselyn would say even if you even if that did happen and he did say I'll make you monthly payments he may be attached to you for the next eight years. You know what I mean? And there's a part of the freedom of like >> you just want it's a reminder every month that even if you're getting money from them, it's still like I'm a nurse and I can take care of myself and like >> I don't even want to be attached to this anymore.

>> they coined the phrase stupid tax here on the show of just things that we do, all of us do it, right? maybe at different dollar amounts and everything in different situations where you look back and you think that was so stupid and now I'm paying for it and >> um I think yeah I think that's the situation. I mean, that's what's so hard, Joselyn is. Now, if he was a good guy, he could say, "Hey, let's refinance and I'll put my name on the loans and get your name off of it, all of it." But >> he's just like disappeared into the wind.

>> Jocelyn, I hope that you >> I really hope that you allow this like don't >> as this lives in your mind, make sure you write the right story about it.

Like, I don't want you to look at this and be like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this terrible thing. I was so stupid. But I hope that you write this in your brain as this guy tried to break me, but I paid off every dime of this because I'm awesome and >> flip the narrative. >> Yes, please do.

Because so many people would have just >> I don't know, let that debt follow them for the rest of their life. Never fix it, wait on someone else come fix it for them. And the fact that you paid off 30,000 >> Yeah. >> so quickly and that you're like, "Listen, I'll just do the rest of it." I think that that's incredible.

So, keep going. >> Thank you. >> Please. Thank you.

>> Yeah. Oh, well, and I think like you said, Jocelyn, for everyone out there, >> um it's a good it's a good learning, right? Because you do you get sucked into a situation and you think and and they're believable. That's the other thing.

It's like, you know, you're not stupid, Jocelyn. Obviously, you're a very smart woman >> and you know, you get caught in a certain situation with a certain guy who persuades you in a certain way and you think, well, sure, you know, I mean, like good. >> It is what it is. So, um, but yeah, I'm I'm I'm proud of you for Yeah.

paying it off and and going forward with it, just like Jade said. >> Y >> All right, let's go to Evan in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Evan.

>> Hey, y'all. I hope you guys are doing good today. >> We are. Thank you. >> So, of course, uh, my question is, uh,

so I'm a college student here at, uh, Liberty University. Um, I'm working to be a corporate pilot. I also work, uh, part-time as a server. Uh, I've got about 4,000 in debt. Um, I've got about $300 to my name. Um, my car has needed

countless repairs over the last two years that I've owned it. Um, and one of

those repairs was about $4,000 to fix a

transmission that blew. Obviously, as a college student, I didn't have 4,000, so my dad was gracious enough to help me with that. Um, but in doing that, I've owed him about $200 a month um for

insurance as well as to pay that back.

I've asked him if I could pay the rest of that um after graduation and I'm able to work full-time, but he's kind of just said no. And it's paid about one quarter of it, so a little over a grand. Um >> he helps me with groceries sometimes and I'm very grateful for that, but I'm just kind of uh a little bit stuck. Want to be able to have an emergency fund, save up some money.

>> Yeah. >> Um, so I'm just trying to figure out what I should do in my situation.

>> Yeah. What's the $4,000? Is that um student loans?

>> Say that one more time. >> $4,000. Is that the transmission debt or was that the You said you're $4,000 in debt or is that student loans? So 3,000

of that is the transmission and then another thousand of it is on a credit card which I used for more expenses for the car that I paid for on my own.

>> Okay, I gota I got you. >> And how old are you?

>> So I'm 21. I'm a I'm a senior here at Liberty. >> Okay. Um there's part of this I mean I'm going to be honest with you. When I was in college, yeah, my parents were still helping me out with certain things that popped up. Um, and then there was a point where it's like, okay, you're graduated, you making your own money, you're out there, and then it was on me.

So, um, I I Yes, you need some breathing

room. Um, what can you let go? Like what

can you pull back on to kind of give

yourself a moment to just chill for a

second because it's like I feel like you're trying to solve all these problems at once and I don't know that you can. Is the pilot thing part of the Liberty degree or is that something totally separate and then you've got the server deal?

>> Yeah. So, uh being a pilot that that's my degree here at Liberty. Um so, you

mean just like pull back in like my spending? >> Oh, yeah. Well, you've got to I don't think now is the time to tackle debt is what you're asking. I think now is the time to focus on your education, pay the minimum payments for now. You've got a little bit to go. I think you need to focus on graduating and get out of here.

keep things at a level and then you can tackle that debt when you get out and start working. >> Yeah. Minimum payments. Stay current on everything. But I would just do that.

Yep. Just like what Jade said. And then when you get out and actually have a full-time job, then attack the debt.

[Music]

Our [Music]

scripture of the day comes from John 10:10. The thief comes only to steal and

destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it to the full. John Collins said, "The people who don't have

a great life are the ones who settle for a good life." >> Wow. >> There you go.

>> All right. Well, buying and selling your home, if you feel like it's a big deal, it's because it is. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's exactly going on in the housing market. So, we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So, median home prices dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000

and a typical season shift uh as we head into the fall. So, it's pretty typical to see that buyers have now more options and more negotiating power while sellers

face more competition. So, if you're buying out there, the market is in your favor. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to

5.5% in September, giving buyers again get again some more breathing room. But since rates are really unpredictable, the best time to buy when you're financially ready is right now, not when the rates drop. So if you are financially ready to buy a home and you've been sitting and waiting, get in the markets. And if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home with confidence, go to ramseyolutions.com/market

or click the link in the show notes if you are listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right. Uh up next we have is it is

it Gimma? >> Gemma >> Jimma in LA. Hey, welcome to the show.

>> Hi there. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help today? So, I'm in this unique situation where my employer will contribute 15% of my

salary into a traditional 401k.

>> Wow. >> Without me having to put any in. So my

question for you is when I'm done with baby step three and I do have a small

like a separate Roth IRA, should I

contribute the 15% retirement into the Roth or should I contribute it into the employer sponsored 401k.

>> Oh wow. I number one awesome company.

>> Yeah. Incredible.

>> So there's a couple of ways to think about this. I'll tell you what my brain goes to. Rachel, you tell me. Y >> my brain kind of thinks number one the 15% it's great to get in the rhythm of doing that because if you ever move from this job it's great to kind of set that habit of I put x amount of my income into retirement. So I do even though 15%

is really awesome I do want you to have your own skin in this game and so part of me would treat it maybe like a pension where I'm thinking of that as half >> and then I'm doing the other half and I do it into a wroth. That's where my mind goes. What would you do? >> Yeah. So, so you're there's no matching

at the company, correct? I mean, they're just they're just putting 15%. So, yeah.

So, our normal formula is match beats Roth beats traditional. So, since there is no match, >> I would what Jade said, I would go to the Roth >> and I would put probably I would put 15% of your income. Yeah, I think I would do the full 15 because the 15 going into

the IRA, do you have control over where that money's going that your employer's matching? So, that's good. So, that's that's a great thing that you have the control. Um, so yeah, I think I probably would I think I would just take that 15 that they're giving me as gravy.

>> All gravy. >> And I think I would go 15% of your income into retirement. And I would start with the Roth and you can put up to what is it this year? 8 >> uh 8,000 >> 8,000 I think. Yeah, so I would go ahead and max out that Roth and then um and

then go back to your 401k at work to

finish out your 15%. I think that's what I would do.

>> So you would put like seven and a half%

in the personal Roth and then the other seven and a half% into traditional >> Well, it depends on how much you're investing. So it's 15% of your income.

So I don't know what 8,000 of your income, what percentage that would be.

>> Oh, I get you. I understand what you're saying. >> Yeah. So I would go ahead and just like max it out. And if you have any percentages of that 15% left, I would go

back to the 401k and put the money in there. >> Okay. All right. Okay. Well, thank you so much. >> Yep. Absolutely. Gosh, that's >> that's a great great benefit. Oh my gosh. Not even having to put any money in and they're just doing it. That's great. All right. Let's go to Megan in New Haven. Hi, Megan. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yes, you are welcome. How can we help today?

>> All right. Um well, a huge fan. Love the baby steps. Um always trying to get

better. Um but anyway, so um I'm calling

today. I'm I'm a single mom um by choice though. I had my daughter on my own. I'm 43. She's two.

>> Um >> I'm on baby steps four, five, and six.

I've got my fully funded emergency fund, no debt minus my house. Um I do my, you

know, 15% into retirement. And I am a

teacher, so I don't have um I don't have

any kind of match or anything like that, but um you know, doing the best that I can. Um I own my home. It's worth about

$425,000 and I still owe $218,000.

>> Good for you. >> Um I'm a teacher. Like I said, I make about $100,000 a year. Um so after taxes

and insurance, I bring home about 4,800 a month. Um so basically, you know, it's

like I have enough. The budget is tight.

Um but I have enough. It's just that I really want to change my family tree. Um I grew up with um family, incredibly loving, wonderful family who provided for myself, my sister, but zero like financial literacy. Um I feel like I've had to teach myself everything and like I said, I'm still learning, but I really want to set my daughter up for success. Um I learned, you know, I listen a lot about your um trying not to go into debt for

school, things like that. Um,

so you know, as a single person, I know

that like Dave talks a lot about, you

know, just the fact that if you are in a partnership, you're clearly going to make um, you know, growth quick more quickly than if you're single. Um, but I know that it's not impossible. Um, >> right. >> My my income is at the top basically. So

I do have um a little bit of a side

hustle um of conducting coral conducting

and then I have um the opportunity to

have a tenant. Um my father was living with us and was for the last couple years and was helping financially a little bit. He passed away on Memorial Day. Um >> so um yeah, it's been a big loss. Miss him a lot. Um, but with the with the

tenant situation, you know, and the side hustle, I could probably bring in about 120,000 a year.

>> That's great. >> Um, total total.

>> Yeah. Do you want to do that? Do you want to have a tenant? >> Is it like a attached apartment type situation or are they like in the house with you? >> So, it would be technically in the house, but like we would Well, not in the house. It would be like a basement um walk out basement situation.

>> Do you want to do that? because you're on baby steps four, five, and six. I mean, the the hustle is great, but it's not >> absolutely necessary unless you're like, "Oh, no. I'm I I want to keep, you know, >> I'm okay with it." I mean, obviously, it's got to be the right fit.

>> Yeah. >> Um it's it's small, so it would probably be great for like an older single person or doesn't have to be an older person, but I was thinking someone with a calm >> Well, someone that you feel comfortable with living in such a close proximity to you >> and your child. >> Exactly. Yeah. The trust has got to be there. are you concerned about?

>> Well, like I said, it's just so one thing is um you know, in terms of like

my savings, so I I as a teacher, I'll

have um my pension >> um and if I work as many years as I plan to, which I think I still have another 18 years or something, but I can collect 75% of my top three years. So, um, so one

concern I have is that I'm kind of at the top right now with my with my page.

>> Okay, Megan, we're running out of time. We got about 30 seconds. What's the one question we can help you with?

>> Okay. Um, so, can I still can I still

become a baby steps millionaire?

>> Um, help my daughter where you are.

Yeah. Well, Megan, I mean, honestly, the fact that you are so far ahead in the baby steps, the best way to help your daughter is showing the example of what to do and you are doing that. so beautifully. So beautifully. So your example first and foremost is everything. And then number two, you just keep working it. I mean, you have 200 left on the house.

>> Um you're making some, you know, great money as >> 2000. And then and then if you're going to do this extra side hustle, you'll be able to pay it down even faster. Um even with the tenant. So I think honestly you just kind of keep moving through it and it and it may look different paces for different people depending on their income, but you're doing um yeah, exactly what you should be doing, Megan.

I mean, honestly, I want you to be proud of yourself cuz you're absolutely incredible. So, keep it up. So, yes, you can become a Baby Steps Millionaires um as a single mom. Well, that's it for today, everyone.

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## 287. You’re Not Stuck You Just Need a Plan | May 1, 2026


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>> Normal is broke. Common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Delony taking your calls really for the next 3 hours. If you want to get involved, the number is 888-825-5225.

Gets you on the line. Ann is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Ann, what's going on?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Uh my question today is my our youngest son is going to be starting medical school in July this summer.

Um he's married and has a 2-year-old and then has his wife is pregnant. They're going to have their second baby in the fall. And our question is because of the changes in the federal student loan

program, they are not able to borrow enough money

to even really pay the tuition for the medical school. And so they're going to need to take out private loans.

And so our question is >> Please don't do this, Ann. >> whether we will >> Please don't do this, Ann. >> Hey, hey, let me ask you before you go any further with this. I want to ask you one question. Why do you think they put limits on it?

On how much they can borrow? >> trying to do. They're trying to get the the schools to change their policies so they don't require students to uh borrow

as much money. They're trying to get them to lower the tuition. Um but I think in this kind of in the gap, the the tuition isn't going any lower, right? It's right now. >> But the crux of the question is why do you think they're putting caps on how much students can borrow?

>> Well, I think for some professions that makes sense. He's going to be a doctor.

So I think >> question is And I want cuz I want you to think of this because this is going to inform my answer to you. Why do you think they're putting caps on how much these students can borrow?

Simply. >> Because they are able to pay them back.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. >> Yes, ma'am. >> what kind of medicine is your son going to go into?

>> Um still deciding but he's working right

now um with a in a urology clinic and he's either interested in that or maybe endocrinology. >> Wow. >> So I I've got friends who are at medical school startups at universities. I've worked with medical professionals my whole career. That's that's just where I've lived. And I'm just telling you just parent to parent. My son is 16. I would love for him to be a physician. I think it's a great noble calling. It's a good good position I mean it's a good profession.

Um I would I mean he can do what he wants at his age. I would tell him do not borrow money to go into this profession.

And and that's that's me having friends that are physicians, working with physicians, working with medical education, and having a kid that I would love to see him be a doctor because

I don't know what AI's impact is going to be on in 1 year, in 2 years, in 10 years on

the need or the ability for that person who owes 5 600,000 dollars to be able to

recoup that. >> Mhm. So good. >> And a local pediatrician is not going to make 500 600,000 dollars especially with insurance reimbursements. A a a surgeon, they will. They'll they'll do great.

A a urology surgeon, they might. I And again, I don't I don't it all that is so region specific and >> Correct. >> all that, you know. But all that to say is um you and I, the world we grew up in

is the safest thing is go be a lawyer or go be a doctor. Like that's what we were taught, right? And

just look at what's happened to all the kids for the last 20 years who have been told go to coding, go get go get a degree in coding, go get a degree in in IT.

They're out of jobs. You know what I mean? Like they created the thing that's going to take all their jobs away.

I I cannot in good conscience is as

proud of your son as you are, as excited as he is, if a bank is telling you you're too much of a risk for us to give you this money to go around the bank and try to figure that out. Like the bank's whole business is I'm going to loan you this money and I'm going to make money on you paying me back. And if when banks say I'm not going to do that, this is too high of a risk, listen to what they're trying to tell you.

And I know I know I'm blowing up everything and that's not even why you called. I just got to tell you parent to parent, a guy who I worked in higher ed for 20 years, if they're saying we're putting the brakes on this, I would listen to to to why they're putting the brakes on it. And all I have to say is I I can't even more strongly I would say don't go get private private loans because those get people into so so much trouble. >> Yeah, it's it's really tough.

asked your question, but we wanted to we wanted to make you clear on what our stance might be. So go ahead and ask your question just so we can hear it with our own ears. >> I Yes, I guess we're just trying to you know, my my husband and I are we have you know, I'm 58, he's 61. We're

both working full-time. Our combined income is probably about 225,000 a year. We we have about $40,000 left to

pay on our home. Um and when my when our

our children were kind of going through their higher education process, we really weren't able to help them very much because of kind of the situation we were in, but we kind of changed that situation now.

>> Great. >> And so we're just trying to figure out how we can't cuz we didn't really contribute at all to his undergraduate education at all. He funded that him- himself.

Um and so we're just trying to figure out if we can if there's something we can do on our end. And and so what we were is that on the private loans if the interest rate is dramatically lower if we cosign on

that loan for him rather than him um

just doing that himself. So we were trying to figure out how to mitigate that risk. If we we had a couple of ideas of how to do that, but um >> I love that you're thinking in that way because I think that's as a parent you do. You want to look at ways to to lessen the load especially financially.

Um even if I did agree with debt,

I would never agree with cosigning.

So even if even even if I was a person who was like, "Oh, student loans are fine." I would still say cosigning, please don't do it because here's what's going to happen. You cosign a loan, you're on the hook for it. His name is on it. He's just starting his life with his baby, his family, his wife.

He might think this is not an an this is not something I'm interested in paying off right now. That's always going to be attached to you. So if you decide, "Oh, we want to move. We want to buy a house.

We want to do something that might involve our credit." You're attached to it. It's debt that's in your name and that is always has the ability to ruin a relationship.

If if if y'all have cash, Yeah. write him a check today. You'll I will high-five you to the moon and back if you want to support your kid through medical school. >> Even even if you can't do all of it, fund some of it with cash.

>> say, "Here's a gift. We weren't able to do this. We're going to give you this gift." But what you're trying to do is take the guilt you have from not helping in undergrad and you're going to put your relationship with your son. He's going to sit at Thanksgiving with y'all and y'all are going to be his lender.

>> Oh, and and and I can tell you cuz that's what me and my husband did. My husband's uh mother, my mother-in-law co-signed for his loans and she was the third wheel in our marriage for almost 7 and 1/2 years. >> Why'd you buy that car? Why'd you buy new Is that a new purse?

Why'd you Why'd you buy that? >> hear me say she is the the sweetest, most generous woman. Like there is nothing Like I can't say anything bad about the woman, but I am saying because her name was on that loan, that she was part of the marriage because when she was ready to buy a house, when she was ready to do things it was like, "When are you guys going to pay" in the nicest way, "when are you guys going to pay this loan off? Are you guys making progress?" Right?

Because it's her right to ask because her name was on it. She had every right to want to know about it, but as a result, it did become um at many times a point of contention and I just I hated that it was like that. Now everything's good, the loan's paid off, it's all gravy, but I hated that that's how uh we got off that that was the foot we got off on in our marriage. Um it didn't need to be that way.

You're probably not going to listen to what we said, but man, if it plants a seed of doubt in your mind, let it grow.

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? >> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, they don't know what to do next.

>> Me too. I mean >> You're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. >> insurance can replace income, help pay for funeral expenses so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

>> All right, Haley's in Houston, Texas.

Haley, you are on the line. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for having me. Um, but uh

so I had a question um regarding my uh retirement um investments, I guess. Um,

I've been investing about 45 to 50k a

year these last several years and I'm I was wondering when I can maybe pull back

some on that um and maybe focus on other things like saving for a house or um just other life um events.

>> I mean, I want to say today, but tell me tell me more about your financial snapshot because just for those listening, she Haley's investing uh above and beyond what we would say generally um in the baby steps unless you're to the point of baby step seven where you've paid off your home and everything. So, what you're doing Haley is pretty awesome in the way of building wealth, but let's make sure that it's um in the right parameters of your financial situation. So, tell us more tell us what you earn, tell us if you have any debt.

>> Um so, I make I take home about 220-ish

a year.

Um and about 145 of that is like my

actual income and then I work overtime.

>> Okay. >> For the remainder. And then I do have 90k in student debt, which is the only debt I have. But right now it's on deferment. So, like they're like I'm on the save program and they're not letting me pay on it right now. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know. That's one thing I could maybe >> letting you. You can. You can pay on it.

>> Yeah, I can. Yeah.

>> Don't say they're not letting you.

>> Well, it's on hold and I'm on the PSLF

or I'm trying to do the PSLF program.

So, I'm not wanting to get out of that because then if I change into a different payment plan, it will mess it

up a bit and I'll be paying a lot more.

>> So, you're giving me some insight that I am grateful for it is informing what I think is the best route for you.

Um and and what I'm going to say is what John and I did, is what Rachel and George did. Um I'm sure it's what Dave would have done had he have had student loans. I don't know if he ever did, but um so, you make a really great income and you've made some what I would call smart choices. There's a you could have done way worse by, you know, investing 40 to 50% of your income. However, I would pull it back because debt is really serious. And around here we believe in

our in our whole heart that your biggest wealth-building tool is your income. You need the full force of your income at your disposal to truly be able to number number one, mitigate risk in your life. Number two, be able to build wealth. And then number three, be able to do it in a peaceful manner. Like those those are things that we really care about here. So, the number one thing that we're going to teach you is debt elimination.

Getting rid of the debt and then pledging to yourself that you will live a life without debt, especially consumer debt. And so >> Right. >> I would say the same thing for you. You know, Haley, I'd say, "Let's pause investing for a moment. You've done so well. Let's go back and let's just knock out these $90,000 of student loans." I mean, you're single. Are you single?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I'm single. >> Okay. So, are you telling me that if you lived on 190, you couldn't knock these out in a year?

Round number-wise?

>> Would you recommend maybe like not stopping investing completely and maybe doing like pulling back like 20K

and then putting that towards student loans rather than >> What's your fear of investing? What are What are you scared of? You're putting away a jillion dollars.

>> Yeah, what do you have already?

>> Um about 270 right now.

>> How old are you? >> But that's including my pension. Um I'm 30.

>> Yeah, I don't You're not going to believe me cuz this is deeper than like intellectual knowledge, but you're good.

>> Mhm. >> I'm I am way more concerned

Like that quarter of a million dollars in 30 years is going to be a whole bunch of money.

I'm way more concerned Uh can I just be a jerk for a second? Is that cool? Can I just be mean?

>> Yeah, that's fine. >> Me, I got two kids.

You make 200 and What did you say? 225?

>> 220. >> Okay. You make 220,000 bucks.

You have the ability to repay these student loans that you signed your name on. >> Mhm. >> You're choosing not to so that me and my wife are as part of our taxes are going to pay them for you.

Now, if you were If you were making 40,000 bucks a year as a assistant district attorney trying to help the least of these in my community, I'm all about that.

>> Right. >> Right? And so, like you signed your name to a piece of paper, you're making a like almost a quarter million dollars a year. Pay the debts that you said you were going to pay back and then get on with your life.

I'm way more concerned about your financial picture long term you holding on to these and and crossing your fingers for some government repayment program at which by the way may come through. It might. It might. Um they've ticked up they they've they have ticked up um how many they're processing and all that.

That's all good.

>> waited? How long have you already been waiting for this?

>> Um well, I'm on well, they've been on deferment for about almost 2 years. Um

but I'm technically almost 5 years into the >> You see what I'm saying? Like that's a long time to wait. And here's the thing.

Here's what's on the Here's what's at stake because I think this is this is beyond mathematics. You're you're clearly good with numbers. You're thinking about the future. You're thinking about wealth. No one's going to fault you on that. At least for sure I'm not. But part of personal finance, a huge part of it is is emotional.

We know we know about the behavior. We know about the the the numbers, but we forget the emotional part which is human beings want freedom. We want to feel freedom and we want to feel peace.

That is just who we are at the core. And so as long as this is taking up space in

residency in your heart and in your brain and in your mind, what's the like

why is that worth it for you? Especially Now, don't get me wrong. If you were making $40,000 a year and it was a struggle, I I can understand it a little bit more. But girl, you've got the means to pay this off so quickly.

This should have been gone. Like this should have been out of your life. And I would just hate for you to postpone the amount of freedom and autonomy that you can have inside on the inside because you can go out and buy what you want right now. But on the inside and just say yeah, to John's point, I signed for this.

Um how old did you say you are? >> 30. >> I'm 30. >> Okay, so you're 30 years old. You've already got uh 270,000 sitting in your

investments. Let's just say, you know, until the age of 60, let's pretend you didn't invest a single more dollars. Like you just were like, you know what? I'm not going to put nothing else in here. And we just let it grow cuz that's not going to be the case. It's already $7 million.

Okay? >> Wow.

I feel like it's not That's No, cuz my mind is like that's not real.

>> no, you're so young. It's cuz you're so young. And then if we just say, "Hey, she's going to spend 1 year and pay this off, and then she's going to jump right in at 15%," right? Because 15% for you

is about $2,700 a month. And let's just say, "Okay, we're going to start that at age 31 since we're going to take a year and pound out this debt." And then if I calculate it, you're at $13 million.

Do you think that's all right?

>> Yeah. >> Can you scratch by on that? >> Yeah, I think you can I think you can claw by, you know, on on the $13 million. And sure, we could do the math on, "Well, what if we added an extra year to it?" Okay, let's do that. Let's say, "Okay, let's let's account for the year that she just didn't feel like paying off the debt." So, let's add another year to it. Okay, it's $14 million. You know, you got a million more. >> Wow. >> But do you see what I'm saying?

>> Right. >> A million dollars is a lot of money.

There's time to make it up is what I'm saying, and then some. It's a year of time to get completely free, to feel like, "You know what? I paid my debts in this world. I did what I said I was going to do." I love that.

And then from there, the good news is, to your point, cuz I think I heard you talk about this, yes, you can pause after you pay off this debt, you can pause investing. You can pull back to 15% and and save up for your down payment.

>> Okay. Okay, so you'd recommend I completely pause, get the loan paid off, and then, you know, from there on do whatever. >> And and and Haley, this is just me. This is just me. I'm only speaking for John Delony here. >> If they come out next year and say all

student loans are forgiven forever,

I wouldn't be mad because for me it's an it's an issue of integrity. I signed a piece of paper that said if you all help me get through college, I'll pay you back. And I I did what I said I was going to do. And so, would I wish I had that money back?

Yeah, cuz I paid six figures back. But, I did what I said I was going to do. And at the end of the day, nobody can take my integrity from me. So, I I'm going to be okay with that.

Um but yeah, I'd get it paid off cuz it's the right thing to do. And more importantly, you've got the means to do it right now.

>> just something to be said about no one having to save you in life with money.

It is a good feeling to say I took my income, I paid my debts, I did what I needed to do, I got my own freedom, nobody had to get it for me.

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Des Moines, Iowa.

What's up, Sean? How you doing? >> Hello.

I'm good. >> How can we help?

>> Well, I want to know if I should continue to support my wife with her continuing education.

>> Tell us more.

>> Hey, so I'm 39. I'll be 40 here in a

couple months. She's a few years younger than me. She's worked a job for 10 plus years,

was let go about 3 years ago.

I stepped up and got a better job making

more income. So now I make, you know, $100,000.

And was able to support our family. She went to school. First was medical billing and coding, finished that.

Uh then she went for phlebotomy, finished that, then she went for medical assistant. And she's wrapping that up.

Um they're doing mock interviews. I'm not sure about that. She's only going to make about $20 an hour.

Uh we've got about $25,000 in student loan debt.

And I just don't feel like that is acceptable.

>> For the amount that you've spent.

>> Uh-huh. >> For the amount that you spent on these certifications.

>> Correct. I do see that the amount that

we're in debt equals about a year's worth of her income, but now she wants to go for to be a nurse, the RN program.

Um and that's going to add probably about another 20,000.

>> My big concern here is less about the education and the money.

My big concern here is

the way you're talking about her tells me y'all are not together on this at all.

Like >> No. >> You know what I mean? >> I want to sup- I want to support her.

>> But I know it to what?

Cuz I know perpetual students, I was one, who went to school a lot. So

one to get credentials, but two so I didn't have to deal with the real world.

>> Right. >> And it wasn't until me and my wife sat down and she was like, "Hey, what do you What's What are we doing here? Where are we headed with this?" Because these three these three jobs, she'd be a nurse by now.

>> Yeah. >> Right? But if she learned along the way, I like I actually like the medical field. I like doing this part of the medical field. I can become a nurse.

That's not a bad trajectory.

What's the thing beneath the thing here?

Cuz you sound frustrated with her.

Like like it's not acceptable. She didn't set the market rate. Y'all may not have sat down together and looked at, "Hey, we're going to spend this much money. How much is this job going to pay?" And y'all didn't do that calculation together. And that would be frustrating, but I would tell you it as a husband, you own that as much as she does.

Like supporting your spouse isn't just blindly writing checks. It's y'all are united on your decisions and here's why we're doing the things we're doing and here's the sacrifices we're both going to make together to get where we want to go. That's being married. But, like

you're blaming her, it sounds like.

You know what I'm saying? >> I'm not I'm not blaming her for it, but you're right. I I like that where, you know, where are we going with this?

>> Yeah. >> You know, what happens after the RN? You know, is there something else? Like >> Yeah, it sounds like you're worn out because you every time you think it was the end of the line, it it something else is the problem and now we got to go for the next thing.

Am I right or wrong?

>> I am. I I'm kind of burned out with work. I'm a truck driver, so being gone all the time and not being with my family all the time. I mean, I you know, not having that two income, you know, that that strong uh going forward, but I'm also optimistic and I like to look towards the future and that's why I agreed to the schooling.

Like, "Oh, yeah, like we we you know, we can both make it you know, six figures.

That's great." >> Would it help Would it Where did you get that number? You just made that up in your head?

>> Yeah, I think they said that she would be around like 76,000.

And I make I mean, I'm at 40,000 right now as of this week for this year. So, I think I'd make about 110 to 115, realistically.

>> Would it help if you took Obviously, in the past it sounds like you took out student loans for the education. Would it help you get on board with what she's trying to accomplish if you said, "Hey, I'm for this, but we just need to cash flow it. I don't want to go backwards financially to make this happen." How would she feel about that? And how would you feel about that suggestion?

>> So, being that at my age right now, I

don't have any retirement. Um and that's and that's been my main focus, like the main thing on my mind, is I need to to get my 401k built up.

>> Okay. >> Um I don't want to I don't want to work for the rest of my life. I actually do want to retire. >> Right. Okay. >> But, right now as far as I cash flow it,

I I just don't have the means,

um paying for our entire household off of just one income. >> How long have you guys been married?

>> 16 years. >> Okay. And this is Is this the first marriage for both of you guys?

>> Yep. >> Okay. Tell me So, okay. So, here's what I hear, and John, jump in at any point.

It's almost like for 16 years, I don't know what you guys were doing, but now all of a sudden it's like we got to lock in, and it's you're ready to lock in, but she's almost still like finding who she wants to be. Um and I I mean, I'm playing the field on this because I agree with you. There There does come a point where it's like we need to make a decision.

Um I feel you on that. I also feel you on not wanting to burn extra money because there are fish to fry, like retirement and making sure we're paying off debt.

So, it sounds like a really kind of come-to-Jesus uh meeting needs to happen with you and your wife where it's I need to understand the the career hopping. Do

you know where it is that you're wanting to go or are you still feeling like you're in experiment mode? Like tell tell me for real. Like tell me what you're really thinking so that I can understand where you're coming from and we can take some time and like cool out on that and then come back together and really talk about it. But understanding where she's at and her understanding where she's at is going to be paramount on this. And she may not know.

>> And and and I want you to redefine

the word support.

I'll take Kelly Daniel who um is the producer of my show.

She supports me in that show.

She supports me by saying, "Hey, you did this really well." And she also supports me by by helping create a vision for where we want to go with it. But she also really supports me when she says, "Hey, you blew that.

That's not support. >> Mhm. >> And so support is you at my buddy Will Guidara says every He's one of the world's best restauranteurs and he says every shift the the the wait

staff goes and fills up their pitcher so they can spend the rest of their shift making sure everybody else has water.

That's support.

But they can't first start by supporting all of their all of their customers if their pitcher's empty.

And so you have to look at expand your definition of support is I'm not just going to blindly say yes, yes, yes to everything. Support looks like, "Hey, let's take a half day. I'm going to take a half day off of work. I'm ahead of schedule financially this year.

Where are we going?

Who do we want to be? What do we want our house to feel like?

And right now this debt is scaring me to death. I would love for you to be a nurse cuz you could be a nurse into your 70s. And hey, I will take parts of nursing away, but it won't take the human contact away. Like that's a thing y'all she could do for a long, long, long time. And maybe we can't afford that for the next 2 years. Let's settle into this phlebotomy job or whatever for 2 years.

But support is I'm going to be honest and put everything on the table and let's co-create a vision together.

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Back to the phone lines where we have Nick from Sioux City, Iowa on the line.

Hey Nick, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys. Just wanted to call. First off, big fan of the show. Thanks for taking my call.

I listen to it all the time.

So, the reason I'm calling is I'm a small business owner. I've got about nine employees now and my main guy

is uh he's great guy, works hard, shows up every day, but I think just made a lot of poor decisions, you know, when he was kind of younger and getting started. He's only about probably 28, 29 years old. He's got four young kids.

Um you know, I remember he was buying some vehicles from some used dealerships and probably paying, you know, top dollar and not getting good interest rates and, you know, probably probably spending more than what he should have out of the gate. Um over the last several years, I've

he's came to me and said, "Hey, I'm you know, I'm short. I'm I'm not going to be able to make my house payment. I'm not going to be able to make my car payment. Can I borrow some money?" I've always lent him money.

Just slowly took it out of his check.

Um you know, as as the weeks and months went on after that.

Uh he's to the point now where him and his family are down to one vehicle.

The other he has a loan on that vehicle.

He has a loan on two other vehicles that he doesn't even own anymore. He had to turn them He had to basically give them back to the bank cuz they were broke down and he couldn't afford to fix them.

>> Well, when he keeps coming to me for money all the time, I feel bad and I'm like >> What's going on? >> Hey, oh yeah, I'm like you work your butt you work your butt off every week, man. Like you work, you know, 60 hours a week. >> think is What do you think is going on?

If you If you really I mean, not in a gossipy way, but if you just had to say like, "You know what? I think da da da da da." Like what do you think's going on over there?

>> Well, I I think part of the problem is and that may not be a problem, but I think he's a person who's just not really motivated by money. It just It doesn't It doesn't, you know, do anything for him maybe. Some Some people are just like that, I guess. >> right.

Uh-huh. >> He's He's pretty laid-back. So, it it just doesn't really bother him. I I I don't And And that's the thing.

And that's honestly why I'm calling because the last thing I want to do as an employer is is get between one of my guys and their significant other. Like I don't I don't want that at all. >> Yeah.

and you know, I actually bought him a truck. I I bought him a used truck to let him and I just gifted it to him, you know, so he titled it everything and and now that's having some problems and >> You're not You're not helping You're not helping anymore, Nick.

Um >> I just got to cut the cord. >> Well, my my my good buddy, Henry Cloud, he he wrote a great book. Um but one of the first stories in the book is a family that came and they had a a

young adult kid who kept asking for money and asking for money and they you know, the family came to him as a psychologist and said, "Hey, how do we help our kid?" And he's And he said, "The greatest gift you can give your kid is some problems." And that sounds heartless, right? But

for a guy that doesn't care about money,

he'd care He's going to care about having a roof over his family's head.

And until he feels that and you keep bailing him out, and by the way, you're you're making it worse for him to come to work every day. And this sounds counterintuitive because you're not just his boss, now you're his bank.

And that shame he feels every day he feels it even heavier. >> Mhm. Yeah, that's that's eventually going to lead to one or two things. He's either going to leave leave the company because he can't handle it and you're going to cut him off.

And so he's either going to be mature and go, "Yeah, that feels right." and that's good and he's going to keep working there or he's going to go, "I can't believe this guy cut me off." and he's going to leave. >> He's going to blame you for his bad decisions.

It's rare in my world where somebody is

great in every aspect of their life except for one sliver.

I have to believe that a guy that handles his personal finances this way, that handles his home this way, his marriage, his kids this way, that has to impact your business. >> Yes. Yes, it does, Bobby.

>> I'm sorry, say that one more time.

>> So it's very rare in my world that somebody has everything in their life together professionally and just when they get home everything's a dumpster fire.

This has to bleed bleed into his work, right? >> Uh >> Maybe not. >> I I I mean I I run a I run a small construction company, you know, so he's he's directed by me every day.

Um you know, I I I feel two things. One,

you know, I I don't like seeing somebody work that hard and you know, struggle to that point, especially I rely on this guy. I mean this is my main guy. >> Yeah. >> And but at the same time uh

I I I just I'm like, well, he can't get to work.

>> Have you tried Have you tried Have you tried >> Have you tried gifting him the gift of knowledge versus money? Have you tried you know getting him on with some of the Ramsey products or anything like that?

Financial peace. >> I >> Every dollar. >> I should probably try to do that and push that a little more. I I've I've always been very cautious. I I try not to ask too much. I try to just kind of stick to the You know, I just don't want to get I don't want to get too personal. I don't want to seem like I'm pushing.

>> Well, you've already been personal. >> Yeah, you've been When somebody comes and asks you for money to pay their rent, it's personal now.

>> Oh, I I get that. I just I understand what you're saying. I >> We've already ventured into that. I mean, at this point, if I if I were in your shoes today and I think this is where we're at with this call, yeah, I'd probably I wouldn't wait for him to approach you again. I would approach him and I'd say, "You know what? I've been thinking about your situation and I think I made a mistake. Um I I really

wanted to help and I gifted you money and I did all this. I think that was the wrong move on my part. I really should have shared with you some of the things that have really helped me and that's a great on route for you to say, you know, here's the plan I follow. Here's a great podcast.

Uh I even, you know, here's every dollar. I was able to get you this one to get you started. Um and and and use the line that that we use with folks. Say, "If I give you the If I gift you this, will you do it?

If I gift you uh this Financial Peace and this Every Dollar, will you promise me if I if I give you the Total Money Makeover, will you read this book?" And and and pose it to him like that and just say, "Man, I don't want to see you struggle. I I'm I'm grateful that you shared with me what's going on, but I don't think me giving you money is the answer anymore and I'm not I can't keep doing that, but I can give you this." And then that way you're helping him, but you're also pushing him out.

Like, don't don't come over here. >> He's asking me for money anymore. >> Ramsey Solutions even has a HR benefit called Smart Dollar, which is which com- giant companies use and small businesses use it, but it's a way to teach employees. Uh a close friend of mine is the CFO of a um a landscaping business and he realized a lot of his guys were blowing so much of their money and they were struggling at the end of every month.

And so they got SmartDollar for the team and it's like, "Hey, as a company, we're all going to do this. We're going to learn these these principles. But you've got some great data, which is I've given you a truck, I've given you money multiple times. That's not helping.

And um I can help you here. And hang on the line, we'll send you a copy of Total Money Makeover, I'll send you a year of EveryDollar, um we'll send you the digital Financial Peace University product, we'll send that to you. And you can just turn around and gift it to him if you'd like to. But man, you've made it personal by getting into his finances.

And so when somebody comes and asks me for one-time help, done, easy. Somebody keeps coming back and saying, "Can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money?" We're going to have a deeper conversation, a um a bigger conversation.

>> Well, yeah, because at that point, it's what we would tell anybody.

>> issue. >> Yeah, and and putting a band-aid on it, it it's it just it does not work. And I

think that enabling calls are probably some of the toughest calls we deal with because you do, you want to help. As a as a human being, if you're you know, any sort of conviction inside of you.

>> you have a pulse. You feel guilty and you want to help when you see somebody else hurting, you want to help them carry that burden. Like that's just who we are as people. I think we just have to be careful of how we do that and make

sure that we're not making it worse.

>> Yeah. >> And rarely is throwing money at a problem the solution.

If somebody needs to eat today, done.

Throwing money at that problem will solve that. They they'll get a meal today or a place to stay tonight. Like 100% I'm all about that. Um but if somebody keeps coming back and coming back, the greatest way to help somebody is to peel is back up 30,000 ft and if somebody's struggling, they got two cars they're paying on that they don't even have anymore and a third car plus the car that you gave them is falling apart.

Man, you got bigger issues. It may be that as his employer, hey, I'm going to pay for 10 counseling sessions for you and your spouse. I'll cover that. And or I'll pay for 10 financial coaching sessions or something with Ramsey, but man, um yeah, I I I would not loan somebody I care about money. I'll either give it to them or we're going to have a bigger conversation.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Let's go to Alexis, again in Des Moines, Iowa. We got two calls from Des Moines. What's going on, Alexis?

>> Yes, I'm calling cuz I'm trying to get my husband on board and we have three mortgages. >> Woo. >> So, we're a little bit of a mess.

>> On the same house or three different houses?

>> Um well, two houses and then a mobile home, the best one.

>> Okay. So, tell us uh tell us how much you owe

on each house and what it's worth and do the same for the the mobile home.

>> Okay. Tennessee home is 147,000.

Um it's worth um probably like 340.

>> Okay. >> Um mobile home probably worth 60, we're

underwater. >> Um in Iowa.

>> Okay. >> probably owe 63.

Um Iowa main home, primary home now, we owe 257

and it's probably worth 290.

>> So, you could sell your Tennessee home that in a state you don't live in and clear both your debts today.

>> Technically, but his family member lives there. So, he didn't want to sell.

>> But, that sounds like his family member's problem.

I don't want to be I don't want to be cruel. That's I know that sounds cruel.

What why why are do y'all own a home and you're paying a mortgage on a home that your his family member lives in?

>> Well, they pay rent. So, it's a rental to them now. So, they do cover that one.

>> How long's the lease for?

>> Um it's yearly. They want to do longer and in hopes of purchasing it. So,

>> Well, that's not an option. But, I'm just saying like what's the lease the immediate lease for?

>> Till September. >> September. >> So, what's your big question? How can we help? >> Um so, he's also had five different jobs

within the past year cuz we had to move back to Iowa cuz my my has dementia and to help with her care.

So, if he doesn't like a job, he quits and get another one. But, he makes more than I do um from work cuz I work a job

that doesn't pay as well.

>> What do you make? >> So, um I make 41.5 from work. Um he makes

about 62.4 >> Okay. >> um due to his pay decrease. And then, we have money that come in from our military service. So, we're disabled veterans. >> How much do you get from that?

>> Um probably about 17K. >> Okay. So, what's your month look like?

On a monthly basis, how much are you bringing in?

>> On the low end, 12.5. On the high end, if we include like the rental income um

back child support that I receive and other miscellaneous, it could be about 18,000. >> Okay. So, there's there's a lot going on here. You know, when you called, you're like, "Oh man, we're a mess." And it's actually doesn't it's not as bad as I feel like it sounds. I think you guys have a lot of money coming in. It just sounds like there's disorganization.

You've got the income there um and you've got assets that you can sell to really simplify this really quickly.

Um I think you just feel disorganized and unorganized. So, what I would do if I were in your shoes is come September, I would let that family member know uh in in as few words possible, basically, we've got to simplify our life and part of that means we've got to sell this property. And so, in September when the lease is up, you'll have to move out. And I know that you had dreams of maybe buying this place.

Right? And so, I would say that. And then, you know, that's there's a $193,000 in equity there that you need

to get your hands on. I think I missed it when you said the mobile home was worth 60 Did you say you owe 63 on it?

>> I owe 63. I'm not exactly sure how much it's worth if it's a 20 25 like I just bought it last year. Cuz >> Okay. >> Who'd you buy it for?

>> Huh? >> Who'd you buy it for?

>> Um it was for us so we were renting and then the cost of rent and then I thought it'd be easier just to purchase that cuz I with our cash flow when he was making more money it just seemed like I could easily pay that off quickly and then just >> And then he quit his job and then y'all went and bought another house?

>> He didn't quit his job. He So he was living in Tennessee, I was living in Iowa so we were living in two states cuz I had to get here quickly to help with my mother's care. Rent in our area is still high for what you're paying for old homes and stuff like that. So to me it didn't make sense to just be paying rent. I was like I'd rather waste it on a mobile home. >> Okay. >> So but you don't need it anymore.

that. So he So then I just got the mobile home in my name. Right now our son that's in college here and then our older son, they live in the mobile home right now.

>> Your sons? >> to get their life together. Yeah.

>> Okay. So and how old are the sons?

>> Um one is 20 and one is um Well one's

21, one's 19. So >> Okay. So what I would do with the sons are Do they have jobs?

>> One is on medical leave from work and then the other one he's a college student so he doesn't have a job.

>> So I would say to the sons I'd say again same same narrative Your dad and I we've got we're trying to get organized we're trying to get our financial life together. We've made a couple mistakes.

Part of writing that writing those mistakes is we've got to sell this this mobile home. Um and so your options are you can hang

out you can move back in with us for a couple of months and then you've got to figure out an apartment or if you're going to live on campus.

And that would be what I say you and you've got to get a job so that you can fund an apartment for especially for the 21-year-old. For the 19-year-old, yeah, you can extend I think you can extend more grace there, but you can't you can't keep this this mobile home that's going down in value every single day that you have it. That really I don't think if you sat down let's pretend that you were just living in the Iowa house, you didn't have the Tennessee house, you didn't have a mobile home, you're just living in your house as it is now.

Let's buy them a mobile home.

I don't think you would make that choice. I think you would probably would have said they need to get a job, maybe we'll help with an apartment, right? I think your train of thought probably would have been down a different line.

And so what I want to challenge you to do is be very intentional about what

stays in your life by default versus

what you actually want it to look like.

And right now there's things in your life by default the the the trailers there by default. The Tennessee house is there by default, right? So that's what we're trying to do to get organized and go this is not actually what I want.

Let's get that out of here. Let's get the next thing out of here and then let's take that money and actually pay down some debt and and create some security for ourselves.

>> And it it seems like you're two hard conversations away from cleaning up your life.

But it seems like y'all are doing a lot of gymnastics to get around those two uncomfortable conversations and in the process you're making your own marriage really uncomfortable, right?

>> Yes, he doesn't agree with selling the Tennessee house like he's fine with keeping it so he's like creating a plan to pay it off.

>> Again, ask him the question I asked you.

I want you to go this this is your homework. You have two pieces of homework for me. The first homework is look on Kelly Blue Book or look to however you sell campers or trailers find out what the thing is worth and get it on the market. That's piece of homework number one.

Homework number two is I want you to pose the same question I posed to you to your husband and say, "Hey, let's just pretend for a minute. Let's be intentional. In an effort to be intentional, let's pretend that we were just here in Iowa. We never had a house in Tennessee.

We never had that.

another state, specifically Tennessee, and choose to buy a rental there with the intent of a family member moving there? Would we choose that?

And just wait and see what he says, because I guarantee the answer is no.

And that's going to help him see that this happened by default, which means we don't have to stay there. We can make changes and do things on purpose.

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>> Let's go to our Ramsey Show question of the day.

Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. If you've lost control of your private student payments, find your financial progress has stalled out. But Yrefi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real-life situations. Learn more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Melody in Connecticut. She writes, "I've been married for over 40 years and I've always managed our household finances by myself. When we were young and broke, it was my responsibility to worry about budgeting for groceries, bills that need to be paid, etc.

My husband recently retired and opened up a separate savings account solely for his social social security deposits. I do not have access to those funds, so my paycheck now has to cover the mortgage, utilities, car payment, and all his incidental spending.

Jade, I'm getting pissed off this week. >> I Me too. Me too. >> He just expects my paycheck to be enough. How do I get him to understand that without his income, I can't cover everything now?

My gut tells me, "Tell him, we don't have enough money to make the make the bills." But my gut

also tells me you've tried that.

>> He don't care. >> And he don't care. >> Uh-uh. I I think he has made What What

This is your phrase, John. People speak in actions and their pictures. What is it? >> Yeah, we think in pictures, but we speak in I mean we speak in words, but we think in pictures. And so >> But he's He His actions are speaking very >> is a language. >> That's what it was. Thank you. Behavior is a language. He has said, "I don't care, and I care so less that I

am going to separate myself from the whole over here and do my own thing on the side." That's what I'm getting from this. >> did that 40 years ago when he said, "I don't care. You figure it out." And he's left you to manage the whole house like a coward for 40 years. "I don't want to deal with reality. That's your job. I'll go make the money, and then

the day he retires, he's like, "Cool, this is mine now." >> Yeah. I I mean, she's right to be concerned about that. She's right to be frustrated by that. >> Yeah, frustrated, concerned.

She's right to be enraged by that.

>> you. You're right. I was being I was being light light-handed.

>> Enraged by that.

>> Yeah. >> I I I Gosh, Jade, here's the thing. I speak to

so many men who are awesome, and they are busting it on behalf of their families and their spouses and their kids and guys who are going to counseling for the first time in 30 years and guys who are patching stuff up with their dads and their and their aging parents.

The when I read these, I get overly mad.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Because it's such a coward, unmasculine, unbrave way to do life.

To just cash out of your own life and put all of this on your wife as you've done for 40 freaking years. Um Melody, I

hate to tell you this, but um you have a spouse that doesn't care. Doesn't care about the stress you're under, has never cared for almost a dec- I mean, almost half a century. Doesn't care that y'all don't your math doesn't line up. He wants to do whatever he wants to do.

Doesn't care for whatever. And this is going to sound petty. I don't know a way outside of an honest conversation, "Hey, let's look at the bills together." And I'm assuming you've done that. I don't know another way to deal with this kind of thing than to deposit the money in your account and start Venmoing him or start asking for him to pay bills.

Cuz that's how he's living anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah.

off in a certain area, um whether it's they keep all the money to themselves or they're, you know, keeping money to the side or whatever that is. And you can always tell that this has been a pattern that's been going on for a long time. And when I hear that, I'm filtering it through, "Oh my gosh, if Sam Warshaw ever tried it, like it'd be unsolved mysteries. Like it just >> texting me in the middle of the night saying, "Hey, we need to hide a body." >> Exactly.

Exactly. And so what I want you to answer, John, in in in in a tactful way is how much of this is um it's easy to point at the in this case the husband and go, "I can't believe he's doing that. Oh my gosh, this guy this guy this guy." But how much of it is the other spouse who's been allowing a certain type of behavior to persist? Like where does that pendulum fall on what we allow versus what we get?

>> At the end of the day, and this is the hardest thing about talking about marriage, the only person you can control is you.

to say, "For 40 years you have made me

dot dot dot." >> Mhm. >> The honest thing is for 40 years I have chosen to carry all of this weight for the house. >> Like you're participating. >> I've participated. And so in that feels

like victim shaming and blah blah.

What I what I want people to hear that as is an empowerment.

>> Yeah. >> I chose this. I wish I hadn't have chosen it, but I did. I won't choose this any longer. And

so no matter what you're going through, you there will come a moment a loss of a spouse, a loss of a child, a horrific incident at work, whatever.

A loss of a job. At some point the question emerges, what are you going to do now? >> Yeah. >> And if you get to that question and you immediately start to loop over again, but they did and they then you're just going to spin your life on on on the on the rinse cycle.

At some point Melody has to say, okay, what am I going to do now? Am I going to keep doing this for the next 20 years of our marriage until I die? And resent the last 20 years? Or am I going to make a change now? And that change may cost you

the image of the marriage you think you've been propping up for half for half a century. >> Right. >> It may be that this guy has been out for

years and you're just going to make it concrete. It may be that when he realizes this is kind of I'm I'm kind of

lame. Like I had my little pity party when I retired and this is not how spouses do life together. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't realize how bad it was or whatever. And Melody has to be honest about has she blown things out of proportion for 40 years? And we we don't have any money.

We do. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Um and he's just like whatever. And so all that comes into effect, but your question is a good one.

Everyone who comes to me and say, "Hey, I want to work on our communication and marriage." What they're asking me is, "How do I get my spouse to do what I want them to do?" And someone's like, "We need to learn how to fight." It is, "How do I get them to do what I want them to do?" >> Yeah. Yep. >> The hardest quest the hardest answer I always give is you can't make them do anything. The only thing you can do is be the best version of yourself in your marriage.

And that means I got to be honest about what I participated in and I got to be real honest about what I'm going to do next. Period. I wish it was more complex than that, and I know that's it's simple, but it's very complicated. I wish it was more it was harder than that.

It's that simple for melody. >> And and I also think there's got to be if you truly want to be happy, and I'll add this on, and and you can tell me if I'm wrong. You You also have to do what you're going to do without an expectation from them.

If you're like, "Man, I wish my spouse would be more servant-hearted towards me." So, all the time you're like, "Would you like a glass of water? Would you like me to Right? You're You're doing all these extra things hoping they'll do it back. >> there's an ROI on it.

>> Yeah. And then when they don't, now you're you're still getting like resentful and angry on the inside.

>> who are thinking about getting divorced, give yourself 6 months to be the best version of yourself. And that's the person who is looking past the dirty laundry to say, "Hey, I saw how hard you're working at work. Thank you for being in this house." That is the person who looks past the extra 10 lb or the past the the gruff or the eye roll.

It give yourself a chance if you're sitting at a divorce in a divorce attorney hearing that you know I showed up as the best version of myself. And if you can do that, and your spouse says, "I'm not interested in being married to you." >> Wow. >> It's going to make it hard, but you'll have inner peace cuz I did the best I could. >> You'll know.

>> Don't show up to the table being like, "Well, yeah, I I did do whatever." So, and almost every time when two people decide I'm going to be the best version of myself so I can be in total service to my spouse, and they do it back, ain't going anywhere near a divorce office, right? Because y'all are building the life you want to have. You build the marriage you want. >> And and the hard part with all of this is when you truly are the best version of yourself, you're doing the best you can.

>> It's scary. >> putting yourself out there every day.

>> spouse may say, "Don't care." >> Don't care. Don't notice. Don't care.

Ooh. >> And but I'll tell you this, when you're going as is Let me go back to like something as silly as high school sports.

It's easy to be like, "Well, if I had just worked out, I would have been faster." Whatever. It's scary to put all the work in and still be seventh place.

>> Oh, man. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> But you you stop running cuz you're like, "That's That's as best as I can do." >> I did my best. >> my best. And so, Mel asked yourself not "What does he get?" Ask yourself "What am I going to do now?"

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>> Mark is in Fort Myers, Florida on the line. What's up, Mark? How can we help today?

>> Hey John, hey Jade. How are you guys today? >> Doing all right.

>> Great. So, the reason I'm calling is my

father and mother-in-law um they just moved down to Florida about almost 2 years ago and after he retired.

And you know, after speaking with my wife, um they're going to be out of money in about 20 months.

>> Ooh. >> Um >> How do you know this? >> been big spenders. I know this because my wife, who's actually a financial planner, she finally just took over for them. They never wanted to use her in the past, and now they have, and now she's got all their information.

Um And anyway, they've always been big spenders, never paid off their mortgage in all their big earning years, and now it's not looking so good. Um so, I'm

really just fearful that they're going to come to us in time and and need financial help. So, I'm just not sure how to really navigate that.

>> So, I I think >> Or maybe what discussions need to >> Yeah, it's a great question. I Let's Let's just you and your wife get together and run the exercise.

Like they call us. What are we going to say?

Cuz you can't control them. The only person you can control in this equation is you.

And so, assume they're going to call and ask for money and have a pre-agreed upon

message from you and your wife as to what we will and will not support.

>> Do you think your wife and you do agree on what that message should be, Mark?

>> We do, and when we have talked about it, um her and I are in complete agreement.

And I think the most frustrating part is that he So, they moved into a community, and he's on the HOA board, like and he's working almost 40 hours a week not being paid. >> Yeah, but yeah, but like you're

>> You can't control that. >> Yeah, your compassion is real, dude, and I want to honor your compassion for your father-in-law. But what you're doing is you're taking his choices and and potential future

issues and you're dragging them into your present and you're the one dealing with them. Or as they say in AA, in AA, you're drinking poison hoping he gets sick.

You know what I mean? And so what I'm not going to do with the precious time I have with my wife on this planet is spend time worrying about other people's decisions. Especially if we've already aligned on our our response to the

consequences of their decisions or their potential consequences, right?

That's anxiety. It's grabbing a potential outcome in the future into the present and trying to solve it now.

That's just a it's just a recipe to ruin today. Doesn't solve any of their activities or actions, right?

>> Okay. >> And so yeah, he's making idiotic choices. He's making bad choices with his money and he's using he's trying to build reputation in his local community.

A, I get that. If he just moved to a new place, he wants to be on the in crowd and get to know people. I get that. And also, he can't afford to do that, right?

But if y'all are already aligned on what your response will be, you've you've gone further than most married couples do. So I applaud you for that, man. Now your choice is to look at your wife and say, "Hey, what kind of fun can we have today?" I don't know the other option other than just to choose misery on a problem that you can't solve. >> Well, I'm curious.

Your your wife is, you know, they've they've given over the information to your wife. She's helping them. Surely she has said to them, "Here's what I'm finding. You got 20 months left." And I'm sure she's made some suggestions.

>> Yeah, they Yes, she has and he just keeps saying, "Oh, I have a plan." And we're like, "But what's the plan, dude?

Like, you're not telling us." And so, we just don't really know. >> How old are they?

>> Um he is 69 and she is the wife is like

60. >> Okay. Are Are they with it? Like, are they Is Is everything still full capacity? Is it possible that they have money or assets that you guys don't know about?

If they say If he says, "I have a plan." or "I'm fine." >> Yeah, there's the other side. What if you just trusted him? Cool. They got a plan.

>> Yeah, I I guess you're right. I don't know of anything, but >> You get to choose Anything that you're thinking right now is a story you're making up. All right? >> Right. >> And so, let's let's deal with a potential bad story and let's choose to make up the most positive version of this story. That's not being Pollyanna.

That's not being in denial. That's just saying I get to choose which one of these things I meditate on every day. One of these stories that I make up is going to let me sleep a little bit better and the other story is killing me. It's going to give me a stroke and it's not going to change his financial habits at all. I Dude, I totally get your frustration. I mean, I get it deeper than you can possibly imagine. I won't talk about it on the air here.

And at some point, you have to decide I'm not going to strangle myself and lose oxygen here over a problem I can't solve. >> Yep. >> I will have it I will have an answer for what comes and so be it. Jade, we were just talking about this off air.

If you and I and all of our teammates here on the Ramsey Show, if we could just get people to

if we could empower people to hear this message, you can only control you.

>> That's it. >> I think I literally think the world changes. >> Absolutely. >> say that in a in a every man for himself, but like take care of your house. Take care of you and take care of the problems that are already in your lap. Don't create new ones and drag them in to your lap.

And if other people want to go do wild stuff, I don't like it. I'm I hate it for them. I hate it for us, but I can't do anything about it.

>> have to attach yourself to it or it it doesn't have to become the conversation that you guys circle around every night when you do dishes. >> Yeah. And maybe once a week, all right, 30 minutes. Let's just >> Get it all out. And we just rag on it. How could they do this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> And then we're done. >> to dinner. >> I LOVE IT. UH THANKS FOR the call, Mark.

I wish it were different. Let's go to Scott in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on, Scott?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> Doing great.

>> Excellent.

>> Let us have it.

>> Okay. So, I I'm in this predicament

where um I my friend from Primerica, I

just started buying Roth IRA um

uh you know, with with him. >> Yeah. >> And um he's telling me that um Okay, so

I have an investment property in Las Vegas and I have a house here in St.

Louis. Um I want to sell the investment property in Las Vegas and I'll come out with about 250,000.

>> Uh-huh. >> I want to pay off all I The only two debts I have left are my Jeep and my

house here in St. Louis.

>> Okay. >> I can pay them off and and be you know,

scot-free, step seven, you know, on top

of the world, you know, but yeah, but my

here he's telling me I'm the stupidest guy in the world because my mortgage rate is only 2.85.

>> Get a new financial adviser, dude.

>> All right. >> Get a new one. >> He's He's forgotten that there are different There There's multiple components of money, right? We get caught up on the dollars and cents.

We all know about numbers. Then there's the behaviors. You You need to budget. You need to avoid debt, and then there's the emotional sense.

And we talked about this earlier. So much of money is emotional. It's how we want to feel. We want to be free.

We want peace. It's who we are. >> He doesn't have He's not going to have to deal with your peace. He wants the arbitrage.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah, he wants to give me a put He says, "Take that 250, put it

towards an some kind of annuity >> Dude, fire him today. Today.

Today.

>> Okay. All right. >> Today. Well done. Because here's the thing.

Bro, I'm telling you. I've been on both sides of this equation.

When you sleep in a house that nobody can take from you.

>> Yes. >> I will pay 3% in what I call a sleep tax on what my mortgage is my interest rate is versus what I could be theoretically getting in the in the market.

I will pay that sleep tax every day of the week because no one can take my house. >> And >> Oh, that's awesome. Thank you, sir. I I love that. >> And there's >> I really love that. >> And there's the other part of it where if we do want to get into some facts and data, we can. We've done the largest study of millionaires here at Ramsey.

There So much time was put into this study, and we found that when we look at millionaires, Baby Steps millionaires, net worth millionaires, whatever you want to call them, it was clear that these people they valued paying off their houses. They paid for their homes, their home residences. They were They were maybe purchased with a mortgage, but it was a priority to pay them off to where they had that ownership, they had that peace. And so that's something that we know.

It's not just an emotional thing. It It shows itself in the numbers as well when we look at Everyday Millionaires.

You tell them what your goals are, and they lock arms with you to accomplish your goals. They don't call you stupid and try to sell you a product.

>> We talked about it on our last call with Scott, but if you need help with investing, you need a good SmartVestor Pro in your corner. Someone who's going to listen to you, right? They're not going to sit back there and tell you that what you're doing is stupid and not explain it to you. You don't want that.

Our SmartVestor Pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the heart of a teacher.

Hear that? Heart of a teacher. And we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years, which means these folks are going to sit down with you, they're going to listen to you, they're going to teach you. They're interested in you understanding so that you guys can work together.

SmartVestor Pros can create a plan to help you reach your goals and help you make informed investing decisions. We'll show you up to five SmartVestor Pros in your area for free, and then it's up to you to vet them, you can interview them, you can decide which one you want to work with. Go to ramseysolutions.com/smartvestor to find an investing pro near you, or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, go ahead and click that link in the description. >> Hey, real quick.

Uh we were talking about this off air with brother Scott there for that last caller.

>> I did, too. >> I I always try to be compassionate here, so I'm going to put myself in the seat of his financial advisor.

And I have a client that comes and says, "Hey, I'm going to I'm going to sell a rental property that's in another state, >> Uh-huh. >> Um, and I'm going to get $250,000 of equity.

I want to pay off my house and pay off my Jeep. And it's a logical question.

What's your interest rate on your house? 2.9. >> Uh-huh. >> Okay, I can get you the market returns the last two years have been 23%.

>> Mhm. >> It It can feel financially foolish to do that. >> Yes. >> And if you're looking at a calculator, I want to honor that that investment guy on the other side of the table.

You're right. You're right. >> And I think that's where if you are walking into it with a financial professional, whether it's what somebody you found in the in the yellow the yellow pages cuz I'm 180 years old, um, that you found online or that a SmartVestor, I think it's important to come in and say, "Until I don't owe anybody anything, I'm solving for peace. And then we'll start solving for return." >> Yes.

>> I get what you're saying. I appreciate it. By the way, I will never ever ever ever put my money in in an annuity. I know that you make more money on that.

I'm not going to do it.

do get There is a math problem here where you you think what I'm doing is foolish. And mathematically, I'll even agree with you. >> As for me and my house, we're solving for peace. We're solving for not owing anybody anything. And then we'll start playing the the calculator games.

>> Yeah, John, I'm glad that you said that because that is so true. Um, when that guy when that guy called in and he said, "Yeah, my invest my investor wants me to do this." My first my first brain goes to well, yeah, like there's a lot worse you could do with that money, right? And and I want to remind people listening, we have a method that that works and we have a a way of thinking around here and it's not just numbers. We're always factoring in the person.

We're factoring in who you who you are and how we how you want to feel. >> Yeah. >> Right? And that's been a theme, throughout the show, even just today, where we're trying to solve for people's freedom.

We're trying to solve for their peace. And that goes beyond mathematical equations. Math is certainly a part of it. Numbers, of course, we're talking about money.

Behavior is part of it. We talked about that before.

So, when you sign up for the Ramsey plan, yes, we're giving you a series of seven baby steps. Yes, we're telling you to budget. Yes, we're telling you to live on less than you make, but it's all so that and it's so that you can have It's not just building wealth, but it's having this life of peace and it's being able to give like no one else so later you can give and live like no one else.

Like that's the whole part of it. And so, peace is at the core of that every single time. And so, you're going to hear that theme throughout the show when we answer people's questions.

All right. I love that discussion, but now we're going to get to Jen who's in Scranton. Scranton, Pennsylvania.

How can we help Jen?

>> Hi John and Jade. How are you guys doing? >> Excellent. Chilling. >> Ridiculous. We're running a scam called a podcast. It's the best.

>> Uh that's funny. That's funny. Well, I'm hoping that you can help uh my husband and I settle a disagreement.

>> Yes, my favorite.

>> Yeah. >> Not that you guys are disagreeing, just I like this type of call.

>> Awesome. Um our question is should we be on the hook for part of the student loan debt that our son accrued due to bad advice that he received from us when he started college when we ourselves didn't know any better about taking student loans.

>> Great question.

So, you advised him to take out the student loans back in the day?

>> Yes, we did and I don't even think he was really ready to go to college initially. So, he changed his major a couple times and there's some health issues thrown in there as well. So, he's racked up um about $60,000.

Um luckily, he's graduating in June um

with a Bachelor of Science in Supply Chain Logistics and Transportation Management. Um you know, he's he's job

searching. Um I don't know if he's necessarily the most motivated to job search right now. He is working full-time. Um but he I don't know. I I think

morally because we gave him the bad advice and we kind of pushed him to go to college >> Uh-huh. >> before he was ready. I kind of feel like we're on the hook morally for that.

Um my husband, he's uh been in the trades. He never had any student loan debt. I myself was I'm a teacher, so I

have a master's in teaching, so I got some student loan debt um from you know

for my for my profession. Um I have I've since paid it off and whatnot, but um so I thought that you know our son was just doing the normal thing. >> Yeah. >> So we're graduates of the >> Yeah. >> Do you have any money? >> The big question is money. Do you all have Could you write him a check for 30 grand today? >> No. So here's here's the deal. Um

we're graduates of Financial Peace University. We're currently finishing baby step two.

Um we're going to have $113,000 of consumer debt paid off by June.

Um so then we have our >> Yeah, this coming June. Yeah, so we're we're just Yeah, so we're really close.

Thank you. Um so I don't know. What do you guys think? Should we be at some point helping pay it back or >> I want to say something mean, okay? Is that cool? >> Okay. Yeah, it's totally cool.

>> So and we >> And my husband's here right now with me, too. >> Oh, nice. >> What's What's your husband's name?

>> His name is Mike. >> All right, Mike. We hear you on the line. Come in at any time. >> Okay, so here's I have this conversation a lot with folks who call the show and they want to go into ministry.

And they they went and got a degree in something and not necessarily a dumb thing. They got a degree in business and they took out 70 grand and they called and they say quote unquote I feel like I'm being called to the ministry.

Right? Or I want to go do this other thing.

And what I always tell folks is you dug yourself a hole

that you have to with integrity refill

before you start living into That's why we tell people to don't go into debt, right? Because then you're faced with these moral dilemmas and you regardless of if you think you morally have an obligation to your son, you don't have any money.

>> Yeah. >> And so you can't.

And it might be something that you sit down with your son and you say, "Hey, we're this old and we're still wrestling with debt. Um we want to walk alongside you and so in 5 years or in 10 years if

you've paid off this much, we'll be in a position to help you." This like something like that. I >> Okay. >> Jade and I may disagree. I like the way you're thinking.

I wouldn't make it so caustic as you've as you like it's not a moral failure, but I do love the Maya Angelou quote like do the best you can and when you learn more, do better, right? Like change what you know.

We'd eat orange slices, right? It's madness. And my parents didn't know any better. None of the parents did.

And so we'd be like, "I need some water. I'm dying." And they're like, "No water. It's bad for you, right?" And so as a parent, you do the best you can and then when you know better, then you sit down with your kids and say, "Man, I I messed this up and so here's the next thing going forward." Um and so when it comes to money, man, yeah, your your kid took your advice and now he's 60 grand in the hole and yeah, I I think it's right for you to say, "Hey, we gave you bad advice.

We don't have any money. We're working to dig this thing out and we're going to like man, the quicker you can get this paid off, that'd be awesome. And if we get in a position where we can help you, we're going to." >> And I would. I'd I'd treat it like the baby steps.

You know, you pay off your debt, save up the 3 to 6 months, start investing and when you get to baby step five, if you want to say instead of putting money towards a 529, which is what we would and should have done, we're going to put that towards the debt payments and help you run this thing back. I I actually really love that idea because that's probably what you would have done if you had a little bit more time, right? You would have put a a certain amount aside every single month to put towards his education.

And it's not too late to do that. It's just going to have a little interest on the side. >> it's on the back end. >> Well, and probably he didn't just take out loans just for tuition, room and board.

He probably took out the full loans and had his fun, too, right? And so some of that he needs to have some skin in the game, too, I think, also.

the idea of you saying, "Hey, we gave you bad advice and so we're going to be a part of paying the piper on this, but he has to have some skin in the game, too."

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade, this is John, and we're going back to the phone lines where we have Mark in Charleston, South Carolina. Hey, Mark, how are you?

>> Uh good. How are you?

>> Doing good. How can John and I help?

>> So, um I was really close to I was $300 away from being financially uh debt-free aside from my car and mortgage, and then uh a bad life event sent me spiraling down, and I have recollected all of that debt back. So, I'm currently um including house and car, I'm 169 in the

hole with uh about $20,000 in personal debts.

>> What happened, man?

>> Um the the mother of my child

uh cheated on me with uh with with a guy that she was employed with uh for and uh sent me back down to uh uh an unholy lifestyle, I should say.

>> Can we can we um as we dig out of this and Jade's going to give you an ironclad path, okay?

>> Okay. >> But here's where I want to start with it, okay? >> Yeah. >> A real bad thing happened and what is my and going to be?

>> And it's my responsibility.

>> I want you to own I went and chose to handle this bad thing in these ways.

>> I I did, yes. Absol- I there's no doubt about that. >> Okay. Um that ownership is critical for the

next step. >> Yeah. >> Right? And so, man, I hate that that I dude, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I hate that happened to you and I hate that like your default setting was I'm going to go run back and make a bunch of bad decisions and un- un- unhealthy decisions and here I am.

And so, that sense of ownership will be what gets you out of this mess. Cool?

>> Yeah. >> All right, cool. Same team.

>> Um so, let's spread it out because I do think that mentally it helps when And this is for anybody, when you're listing out your debt smallest to largest, baby step two, which is the step that we pay off consumer debt, it is just that, it's consumer debt. And so, let's leave the mortgage out of it for a moment and that's going to help you mentally to get your head around what the task at hand is. So, can you tell me what your debt is aside from the mortgage?

>> Uh 65,911.

>> Okay. And I want you to list out what those are. For now, they don't need to be smallest to largest, just list out what they are. >> Oh, yeah, they are.

>> Um so, like tell me how much the car is, tell me how much is on credit cards, maybe tell me how much is personal loans, that sort of deal.

>> Okay, so um the car I have 37,178.

Um personal loans that are right now past due >> Okay. >> um are 18,288.

>> Okay. >> And then the rest are all in collections, which is 10,444.

>> Okay. So, the good news is I see a

couple of things right away that we can do to get you some quick wins, because when you're in baby step two, paying off the consumer debt, it's all about quick wins. That's how you maintain uh just feeling good about it, right?

>> Momentum and things. >> Thank you. I was looking for the word. That's how you maintain momentum, and that's for anybody listening. So, whenever you have debts in collections, that can feel terrible, because you've over due'd and they're blowing up your line, 1-800 Pay Me is calling you. But, the good news is now you have bargaining power. And so, instead of paying 10,400,

you're going to pay like 30% of this.

And so, you're going to save up. Your first number one goal is, okay, let me just instead of paying them a bunch of small payments or coming up with a payment plan, I'm going to meet my other minimum payments, and I'm going to stack up any other margin that I can for a little while, and I'm going to save up, I don't know, three or four thousand dollars, and then I'm going to call them up, and I'm going to settle all of these individually for cash.

So, if you have one that's $4,000, you can offer them two 200, two or 300, and see if they'll take it. Do you see what I'm saying? >> Okay. >> And when you do that, you want to make sure you get the deal in writing before you pay.

Don't give them access to your checking account, and you want to make sure it's in writing first, and they will do it. They have the means to do that. So, if you talk to someone on the line that says, well, I don't know if I can do that. Yes, you can.

Hang up and call to the next person, okay? So, you're going to have to That's going to be That's going to feel like a full-time job to do that, but trust me, it's going to be worth it. You're going to save $7,000 doing it that way. Okay, so that's homework number one.

Homework number two that I see right off the bat is is this car.

Do you happen to know offhand what it's worth?

>> Uh probably around 35.

>> Love that for you. >> Sweet. >> Okay, so you have a couple of options.

Um I don't know what your income is. Tell me what your income is.

>> Uh so uh reliably, my

uh so I I'm I'm on VA disability.

Reliably, it is $4,080.

>> Okay.

And what is it unreliably?

>> Unreliably, it can vary from

6 to 7 grand.

>> Okay, what's the 2,000 that you're getting that doesn't always come through? >> From a side hustle. >> Okay. >> What what keeps you from getting a full-time job? Like even at Home Depot.

>> Well, it well, it kind of is my full-time job. So, my my the

the mother of my son and I, we share custody and the days I have him, I don't

work. And uh and that's only due to lack of um

support right now, but hopefully my parents uh my parents and I have found an opportunity for them to move down here to where I'm at.

And uh they can help out. So, after that, then I can uh turn this side hustle into a

full-time uh business operation.

>> Okay. >> What what does what does child care look like? Like when you How old is your son?

>> He's 5. >> So, is he in school?

>> He goes to school right now, but he only

goes to school for 3 hours a day cuz he's in early childhood development cuz yeah, he has autism.

>> Okay, so for now, and I know you're working on that, but just for today, um

we'll say that I think that the best thing for you to do right now is to save up the margin from your $4 to $6,000 and do the debt collections deal. And in the meantime, yeah, I'm going to go over to the credit union and I'm going to say, "Hey, I need a $7,000 loan."

And 2,000 of that is going to go to meet the difference on this car, and then the other 5,000 is so that you can get a junker in cash to keep yourself going. Maybe you spend 6,000, but the point is I want you going down in debt from 37,000 to around five

or for five or eight thousand. Do you see what I'm saying there?

>> Yeah. >> Now, my guess is that your credit is horrible. >> It's yeah, terrible. >> Yes.

At this point, and I'm just telling you this, I think that anything is going to be better for you it as far as interest rate. I'm not saying get a payday loan, never never do that, but if you have if you can do put it on a credit card, if you can put it on any sort of personal loan, that is going to be good for you because we're going from $37,000 to $8,000, right? So, this is a good thing. And now that you've got the momentum back, you'll have that money back in your pocket, you can knock that debt out because that now becomes your smallest debt aside from the collections, okay?

And so, once the collections are settled, now we're tackling that personal loan that you took out in order to get out of this car. And in the meantime, you're selling that car, Kelley Blue Book personal sale is what we're looking to do. And that's going to free up so much money because I know that that car payment is going to go back into your pocket. And then from there, now we can start working on the personal loan that's past due.

And because it is personal, you might be able to pop in there and make a deal on that, too.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> All right, we've got Kelly who's calling in from LA. What's going on Kelly? How can we help today?

>> Hello. Um we spend $1,700

or more on gas every single month and I want to know if we should get a hybrid.

>> That's a lot. >> Whoa. >> That's a lot. >> Wha- how do how do you So to put it in context, I filled up today my truck and it was the most expensive it's ever been by like $25.

And I I actually Jade and I were talking off air like the thought of me struggling to make it and then all of a sudden I've got to fill up once a week and have an extra 100 bucks. Like that's a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> Where do you get 1,700 a month though?

>> So my husband is a private investigator.

He works in his car. If they turn it off then he's like cooking. So the engine's always running >> and he has to travel really far distances. About a year ago he bought a truck and then it went up because the gas mileage was really bad.

So it's just added up and now it's the more he works the more it costs us.

>> Yeah. Is he in a position where like everybody's having to do right now where he can escalate his rates to cover the gas?

>> I mean they have like a gas

reimbursement but it's only I think like 83 cents a mile or whatever.

>> And it hasn't gone up? >> that app before it and hasn't increased.

>> I'd be if I were him I'd ask about that.

I'd say hey obviously you know and I don't know how long he's been working for that company. Let's say he's been there since 2020 and the rates never gone gone up. I'd say hey I've been here this has always been the reimbursement rate. Obviously prices have gone up. Is it possible that we can adjust this with inflation because I'm spending this X amount of percentage more than I was in you know when things started and kind of just lay out the numbers in a in a in a diplomatic way.

>> Yeah I talked to one person who works in the oil and gas industry and he said they're they're doing something called a supercharge which is we're telling y'all as customers right now it's going to go up but we're not it's not a permanent price increase it's just because things are bananas right now and so uncertain.

What keeps y'all from just taking the truck down and trading it in for a Prius? >> Yeah.

>> I don't know I actually have never even thought of that. >> Yeah. >> We got the truck for about 9,000.

He really wants to stay in a truck because he's kind of tall so he wants something where he can fit.

>> I'm a big guy too and I drove a Prius for years and Dave used to laugh at me but I'll tell you what that thing got a million miles to the gallon. It's pretty sweet.

>> Could you sit in it for 12 hours a day?

>> Oh, yeah, it was awesome.

>> Okay, maybe we should look into trading it in then. >> Well, like in let's let me be super like transparent. I don't drive one anymore.

Now I drive a truck, right? But it's it's less for it's less because I'm a tall guy and more because I do a lot of outdoor stuff and I got place out in the woods that I've always having to use the I use the truck if that makes sense.

But get something that's comfortable, but >> Yeah, split the difference and get what makes sense, but the point is you're going down and you're going to a vehicle that has better gas mileage. That's the point and obviously not going into debt for it and um >> That's the the main the main thing for me is like pan out from the gas situation.

Millions of people right now are having to deal with the fact that their job is different now. Whether it's because of AI, whether it's because of gas prices, it's become uh energy sectors is a zoo

right now. Like whatever you're having to do, step back and ask yourself what changes do we need to make in our house. We don't want to be making these changes. It's not by our hand, but it's in our lap.

We got to make some changes and stay inside your value system, which is we're not going to borrow any money. We're not going to leverage this moment and get ourselves in a two or five or 10 year dilemma because we were uncomfortable right now.

uh I mean 83 cents a mile of reimbursement, that's pretty good reimbursement. Um maybe y'all were using the extra as to pay bills with and now it just needs to go with what the reimbursement's designed for, which is to pay for the gas. You're going to have to cut spending somewhere else. Or maybe you just go take the truck and get a used Prius or used hybrid Camry and you're off to the races, but it doesn't give you permission to go be reckless with your spending and borrowing.

>> Yeah, I would agree with that. Yes, everybody's feeling the gas prices uh go up. All right, John is in Denver, Colorado.

>> Uh thanks for taking my call. So, I'm in a little bit of a bit of a pickle and I'm just wondering if I could should sell my house.

>> Interesting. Give us the deets.

>> I love pickles.

>> So, yeah, they're all very delicious, but maybe not this one.

So, I I bought I bought my house around 2 years ago with a friend and and a few family members.

And the plan Yeah, >> Strike one, strike two, strike three.

>> When you say that, can you clarify? When you say you bought it with them, is everybody's name on the mortgage? >> No, unfortunately, it's just me.

>> So, you're the only one on the mortgage? >> No, that's actually good. That's probably the best case scenario, actually. >> Okay, so you bought the house with your brother and two friends?

>> Uh my sister, her fiance, and a friend, yeah. >> Sister, fiance, and friend. Okay.

>> Um and basically, I'm in a situation right now where almost all of them have completely moved and now my mortgage is is looking like it's going to go up like around 200 200 200 dollars by June.

>> Okay. >> So, >> Why? Do you have an adjustable rate mortgage? >> It's not adjustable rate mortgage. I think it has to do with my property taxes. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay, so it's going up by 200.

>> Unfortunately, the value of my house has gone down, so I think if I sell it I I I've talked to my real estate agent and I got it down to a reasonable price.

>> Why did the value go down? Or did you overpay?

>> I the value actually when when it was

evaluated when I bought the house was actually I think like 15 more than than

what I paid for it.

I think there's just not a lot of good comps in the area.

So, there's not like the value ends up being a little bit less than it was. I'm not exactly >> real numbers. Tell us what you bought it for and what you think it's worth.

>> So, I bought it for a 460.

Evaluated for it at 475.

>> Okay. >> It I just got a an appraisal of like a

few months ago cuz I was planning on doing a refinance and it evaluated at 450. >> Yikes. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Quite a bit of difference.

Um So, I'm in kind of a situation right now where like I did the math and it's looking like after you know commissions for the sellers and and buyers agent I'm going to be losing money um

on it. But is it worth it to just do that, take on like a little bit and just pay that off or hold out even though realistically it's going to be really tight being just me?

>> How How much is a little money? Because I I one time I took $4,000 to closing

with me to get out of a house and that was the beginning of me and my wife starting baby step two and it ended up changing our entire life.

If you're If you're talking about you're going to be $50,000, now that's a different story. >> Mhm. I think with fees you're going to be going to be getting close to 30.

>> Yeah, it's with Yeah, it's looking like at worst it's going to be around 30 and at best if if it doesn't you know if I don't sell it at a reasonable price,

it's going to be around like 15. So, not great. But at least like if I were to get like a a personal loan and and come up with a little bit of money myself like maybe cover a little bit of a difference. You know, I can't see myself taking more than like a year if I work really hard to pay that off.

>> Well, cuz I'm also thinking you've got time like when when the house goes on the market like you've got a couple of months there to save up some cash.

>> Um >> I mean I know it's hard cuz you don't have roommates anymore and you're trying to pay this big old mortgage, but is there anything you could do to to start stacking some money towards this?

>> I don't know to be honest with with with no help, it's it's going to be really tight. I It's the problem is the reason why I want to sell in the first place um is because I feel like it's going to be so tight, I'm not going to be able to put money away. >> Can you like >> going to be in a situation, you know, where something happens, I just end up losing the house anyway. >> Can you rent out the rooms?

>> I you know, I've looked for I've been looking for rentals when when people first started leaving um and I I haven't really had any luck with that. I've tried furnished finders. I've tried reaching out on on like Facebook Marketplace, joining groups, and I've even lowered the price uh three times at this point and I I maybe it's just cuz they don't want to have like a roommate or I'm not exactly sure, but I just haven't had any luck finding someone >> Yeah. >> who's interested.

>> Uh I mean, this is a cautionary tale we tell folks all the time, you know, do not buy a house with the intent that somebody else is going to help you prop up the mortgage payment because this sort of thing happens all the time. The only way out of this is through it.

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

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>> The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So go to RamseySolutions.com/checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protection that you need. All right, we got Sam who's in Fresno, California. Sam, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks so much for taking my call.

So I am a single mom of a 9-year-old. Her

dad hasn't been around for about 5 years. He actually gave up parenting time if I agreed not to pursue the court-ordered child support. I spent $100,000 on legal and travel expenses

and that just had a major financial and you know, mental impact on me.

>> I'm Sorry, how much did you say you spent?

>> $100,000. >> Oh wow. Why? Wow.

>> He wasn't looking to reach an agreement. He was just looking to ruin my life.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So I'm in a great relationship now.

We're making future plans, talking about what you know, marriage might look like for us and we have discussed me

potentially working less to be more present for my daughter and you know, I'm aware that I am the one with the child. He doesn't have any kids and I don't want to put more on him than is fair. I've had resentment in past relationships and I do not want to recreate that. So how do I lead into building a life and finances together without feeling like I'm taking from him or like I don't deserve that?

>> Um I think you're asking like three different questions at once.

And that's why the outcome feels so heavy.

And so number one, your body's working perfectly.

Like your child's dad gave your child up

for a number.

Right? >> Yeah. Like what kind of scumbag does that?

I get divorce, I get breakups, but I can't My daughter's been gone for two days, she comes back today, and I haven't been able to catch my breath.

And I'm not special, right? So, like your body has a lived experience with a terrible human being.

And so forget the money and forget the support and all that, your body is saying, "Hey, we've run this before, and um it doesn't

end well." And all that means is it's just trying to keep you safe.

The second part of it is the story you're telling about your This is my body feels a certain way, it must be cuz I don't deserve it. You're making up a story about yourself.

Right? >> Yeah. >> And so, what we're going to stop doing is making up stories about ourselves.

We're just going to tell the truth, and the truth is I'm worth being loved, I'm worth being in a relationship where I'm safe, I'm worth being not connected to a scumbag who would give his child up for a number. And that tells me all I need to know about a grown man, right? Like so, all that kind of stuff.

The third part of this is you're obviously really smart and really talented. Fair?

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

So, you know, just looking at data,

that attaching yourself to a boyfriend, no matter how stable he is, how great of a guy he is, he might be awesome, that still puts you in a very vulnerable position.

>> Uh-huh. >> Right? And cuz you're trying to build something you're trying to build a house without a foundation.

Without legal protection?

Without um emotional like we looked at each other in front of our friends and family and priests and God and said till death do us part. Like you're trying to build a house without that foundation.

And your body's right to sound that alarm.

And so I would rather y'all end this end you may be past dating, right? That sounds like 16-year-old something 16-year-olds do, right? But y'all are boyfriend and girlfriend, it's awesome. Nobody roots for love more than I do. I love it, right? And so now is where we're going to talk about values conversations. Who do we want to be? What kind of life do we want to build together?

And then when you're ready to say I do and he's ready to say I do, put his money in his actions where his mouth is and you too, then we're going to start combining money because now I've got a foundation that's yes, it's got some legal protection. Yes, it's got some emotional spiritual protection, but it's you and I, we put a stake in the ground on this day at this time in front of these people and said till death do us part. And now we're going to say let's share a checking account.

And then you're going to have to practice and I say this with a smile on my face. If if you if you were here in person, you'd see me smiling, right? Like some of it this sounds so callous. You're just going to have to get over. Like I don't want to feel resentment cuz he loves me and wants to take care of me.

And then you're going to have to go I have that feeling and that feeling's dumb, right? And I'm going to like if we're married, we're building a life together and I'm going to be a part-time mom and he's going to be the the full-time employee, awesome cuz we are building something together.

Right? And he is he is in a relationship. He's thinking about marrying a woman who got done real real wrong. And so he has to know part of him loving you well is being extra transparent, extra honest, extra patient with big feelings because your big feelings are right. They've kept you safe up until now, right?

>> Yes. Yeah, they are. >> You get what I'm saying? So there's there's multiple problems here and you think it's all one big bucket and then you feel crazy when you pull the problems apart, man, my body's working pretty dang good.

Um I'm not going to start building a house without a foundation under it. I'll start talking about the design, the architecture and design plans. That That's awesome. But, we're not going to start building.

And man, until that day, I'm taking care of me and mine because that's that's what I got.

>> Yeah. I guess I don't ever let go of that. Like, it's been so long.

>> It'll hang on to you until you practice being seen and known by somebody else.

You're going to have to you'll It sounds nutty. You're going to have to teach your nervous system, not intellectually, but through practice, that I am worth being loved and that's hard to do.

It just takes time. Takes practice.

>> Yeah. Mhm. >> But, you're you sound like you are on the right path.

>> Yeah. >> And I know that doesn't feel like you're on the right path, but from what you're telling me, it sounds like, man, you are this guy has won the lottery with you.

>> You think so? >> Okay. Do you Do you believe him?

>> Uh well, I'm working on it. I am working on it. >> That's awesome. That's That's good. That's a win. That means you're moving in the You're You know to say, "No, I don't believe him." You're like, "I'm working on it." That's awesome. That's awesome.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a good thing we got back together. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it it sounds like you're on the on the right path here.

But, if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, I I would I would Your body would be working perfectly if it was like, "Man, I don't know if I should go all in and let this boyfriend of mine take care of me and make myself economically vulnerable, emotionally vulnerable, relationally vulnerable, bring another man into my daughter's life after she's already had just nonsense in her first image of a male role model." Like, your body's right to not anchor into that.

>> Wow. >> To not build a house without a foundation. So, your your your your body's working pretty good.

>> I love that. I think we have time to take Matthew in Virginia Beach. Matthew, we're up against the clock, but I think we can help you. What you got?

>> Hi. I have about $140,000 for my engineering degree that I got.

>> Mhm. >> Um I'm in student loan debt. Um I built up about uh 70 grand between my savings

and my brokerage account. >> Uh-huh. >> Um it's kind of tough cuz the numbers kind of say long-term I'd make more money. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh if I would leave it invested, but >> You're thinking about pulling it out and >> pay off my debt. >> Listen, I'm going to I'm going to take that I'm going to take that money every single time and use it to pay off debt.

Only because, and I said it earlier in the show, but I'm going to say it again, one thing we believe around here, and we know it because we've seen it work with millions of people, and not just folks out there. John's done it, I've done it, George, all of us. And we know that your income is the biggest wealth-building tool you have. You need your income at your disposal, and that's the way that you build wealth.

So, as long as you're paying money uh in debt payments, you do not have your full income at your disposal, nor do you have your full range of peace or freedom. And so, by you taking this money out of savings, this is non-retirement funds, I'm assuming, you can take that money out of your brokerage account, cash it in, and pay off this debt, you are one step closer to freedom, and you're one step in the right direction to having the full power of your income work for you.

John? >> I mean, yeah. >> It's the easy That's That's That's the easy button. That's a no-brainer for me.

And I get it. We all like the feeling of seeing a pile of money sitting there, but if you just do basic math, you will realize very quickly, if I have $140,000, but I have $70,000 of debt, or if I have $70,000, I'm sorry, in cash, but I have $140,000 of debt. I don't actually have $70,000.

I'm -70, okay?

>> the bank's 70 grand for them.

>> That's right. So, the math will also tell you that we're right.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living it normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

>> Our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day, Joshua 1:8.

>> Keep this book of the law always on your lips. Meditate on it day and night so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then, you will be prosperous and successful.

>> J.K. Rowling said this.

British accent. >> Do it. >> It is impossible to live without failing at something unless you live so cautiously, you might as well not have lived at all.

>> Terrible. That was horrible. >> that. >> I mean >> Harry.

>> Moving on.

Moving on. We've got Lucy who's in San

Lucy is in San Jose, California, not San

Jose.

How can we help Lucy?

>> Hi, how are you guys? >> Good. What's up? >> How can we help?

>> Yeah, so I'm in kind of a difficult situation. Um I I'll kind of explain my debt first and then the situation. So, I have $57,000

in student loan debt and the interest is around 6%. Um my payments are 640 a

month. I do have 13 months left of forbearance.

So, if I needed to defer at any point, I am able to do that, but obviously the interest is still accruing if I do go on forbearance. >> That's right. >> Um I have 13,000 in a car payment. Um my car broke about 9 months ago and I just got a new car, used car. >> Okay. >> The payments on that are 275 a month.

And it is a 9% interest rate. I have no idea why. I have good credit, but that's I just tried to get it lower and um I couldn't, so that's at 9%.

>> Okay. >> Um and that's my debt and I have $14,500

saved. Um and my dilemma right now is that um I've

been having a lot of health issues. I had to get a couple of surgeries just from actually injuries, like accidents, and following that I started to have like a lot of health issues, just like insomnia and and other things that kind of started from that and my health is kind of like really deteriorated. Um I'm 30 years old. I just turned 30 in March.

>> I'm sorry. Uh-huh. >> Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Yeah, and then also I realized that I have mold in my apartment. >> Oh, boy. >> It's >> It's hidden, um, but it's definitely here. And I've spent a lot of money out of pocket trying to like get the apartment complex to do something. And they're they're basically because of the air test they did, they're saying that it's not significant enough.

Um, but >> know How do you know that it is significant enough?

>> Well, to be honest, like just to save you guys' time, um, it's really hard to know what you're

dealing with unless you can find it and it's hidden. And I know that it's here because my apartment has a very earthy bad smell, um, when everything's closed up. And it even kind of lingers even when everything's open. >> And when they tested it, it just didn't It didn't show that there was mold or that there was enough mold? >> It Right. It said there's a normal amount of mold, and apparently the air test isn't super accurate cuz it's kind of like a point in time. So, it's like it could fluctuate, right?

>> Understood. >> Um, and so, to be honest with you, I don't know that it's affecting my health yet. And it's also very hard to know because >> When's the lease up? >> I've had it Uh, so, I'm on a month-to-month lease, which is nice. >> You're out. >> So, >> Roll out. You should move. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, here's here's what I did. Um, and just so you guys know, I do make good income. I I make 135 a year.

Um, and after ta- I live in California, which is a mistake. I'm going to try to get out of here, but, um, I after taxes

and everything, it I take home 7,100 a

month. >> Good. >> Um, go ahead. Sorry. >> Oh, no. I'm saying that's good. Uh, get to your question. Tell me Tell me what you're trying to do.

>> Okay. So, here's where I I messed up.

Um, so, ideally, I want to pay off my

debt as soon as possible. If If I stayed in a rent range that I'm not now, I paid 2,500 with everything, I could save like

2,000 a month, which is great. Or not save, but put that towards my debt.

>> Sure. >> What I'm even more mistake of doing is my emotions took over and I found an apartment that would be really good for my health and that I really like and

rent here is just insane. I got locked into a good rate cuz I moved during the time. >> took the You already took the lease. You already signed up for something new. >> I I did I did sign it. So, my question is is like do I do I break it because it's 3,400 a month? That's with everything. And given the debt that I'm in, um >> What's the What's the fee to break the lease?

>> So, I probably need to pay the first month's rent cuz it will definitely get rented quick. It's a great place.

>> Yeah. >> Which is 3,400. But on top of that, I'm going to have to pay rent where I am until I find a new spot that's hopefully cheaper, but it might not be. >> going to have to do anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, that that part is that part's neither here nor there because you you signed a lease anyway that you were going to have to pay two rents, which is wild. But >> Oh, no, no. I wouldn't pay two rents, actually, um because the date that I selected as my move-in date, um there wouldn't be a double rent.

So, it would just be for the one. >> But hold on. Like Uh you have $14,000 saved. I would take that first month's rent, go hand it to them, and say I'm out of this lease.

I haven't even moved in. >> Okay. >> And I'm breaking the lease. And you got cash, thank thank goodness.

>> Yes.

Like you're you're it's it's this All of this emotion is stored is compounding on itself, and it's a really simple I I'm going to pay $3,400, and we jokingly say it's your stupid tax. I did something dumb, right? I I got emotional and I did a thing. Cool.

We've all done it. And I'm it's going to cost me that, and I'm going to be down to What is that? >> 10,000, 11,000. >> right?

In savings. And then I'm going to on the way home, I'm going to put a deposit down on a new place, and then call it. >> Yep. >> Okay.

>> from >> Say again? >> had 18 I actually had 18,000 saved, but I had to pay a $3,000 deposit.

>> And you won't get that back.

Or will you? >> get it back. I don't think they can legally keep it because I didn't move in. So, there's no fee that like there's no cleaning or anything like >> I might as well just be out 400 bucks.

>> Yeah. Plus the rent that I'm paying here. So, yeah, it would be like I'd be losing like $5,000 in total. >> That's fine. John and I are fine with all of that. You can't You cannot stay at the new apartment. So, if it's cost whether it cost you $500 to get out or >> Or 5,000 bucks. You got to leave.

>> You got to You got to leave because you can't handle that rent.

Um and then from there >> I did the math and I should still be able to save >> You can't handle it. >> around 900 to 1,000, but you think it's not worth it. >> Darling, you're broke. >> You've got $57,000 of student loan debt.

>> Yeah, you're broke, hon. And I I say that in a cuz I love you. Like you're You don't have any money.

>> Okay. >> And and you're going to feel how You're going to feel house poor.

>> Yeah. >> It's going to take you double as long because to your point, it's going to cut into your margin by over a thousand dollars. So, it's going to take you double as long to pay off the debt.

That's It's not worth it. >> And what what what was your car note again? How much do you owe on that car? >> $640 a month.

>> No, it's 275 a month. >> no, so this this yeah, 275. Yeah, you know, I think I was trying to justify it and like this is a one-year commitment to get my health in order. >> I know, but just to tell me how Tell me how much you owe on your on your car.

>> 13,000. >> Yeah, I just got the car in February. I I put 2,000 down.

>> Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go settle up with the apartment complex ASAP, today.

Cuz here's the thing I know about autoimmune issues and overall general health issues, the more stress you have, the more all those things are exacerbated.

>> Right. >> And so, let's stop going like Let's don't say like I'm going to take a year for my health because your body is going to register 50 to 60% of my take-home income is in this apartment.

>> Right. >> It will know you're not safe. It will know that debt's only going up cuz I can't even barely keep up with the you're going to pay minimums on your student loans and the balance is going to move $1, right? And so, your body

will be keeping that score to quote Vander Kolk. So, let's go get cleaned out of that and then this afternoon with whatever cash you have left minus a thousand bucks, I want you to pay the car off.

>> Yep, keep a thousand dollars saved.

That's your starter emergency fund no matter what, keep a thousand. >> Just take action on these things, yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah, I I That's what I figured you were going to tell me to do. I think I just needed that uh reminder. Yeah, it's it it's hard just with the health stuff cuz >> I'll feel a lot better once I do that.

>> Yeah. >> This is going to help you to John's point. >> Reducing stress. >> Yes.

And and there's just something good about taking action. Like you feel like, "Okay, I've done I've actually done something. I didn't just get the research. I didn't just ask more and more questions.

I'm waking up bright and early. I'm going down to the apartment complex. I'm I'm paying whatever I owe them. They're going to refund me back what they owe me for the deposit. Then from there, I'm literally going back home. I'm making the final payment online on my car. I'm keeping the thousand dollars aside. I'm going down to the bank. I'm putting it in a high yield savings account. You will have done three major things for your future in less than 24 hours.

>> And all you'll have left is 57 57,000 bucks on student loan and then you're free. >> All right, we're out of here. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 288. You’re Not Stuck—You Just Need a Better Plan | March 23, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show and I am

Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of SmartMoney Happy Hour, George Kamel. So, we'll be taking your calls. So, the number is 888-825-5225.

Give us a call and first up we have Daysha in Boston. That's George's hometown. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um I am about $140,000

in student loan debt and my boyfriend and I have been talking about getting engaged and the debt is

overwhelming and a wedding would be, you

know, obviously a lot more on top of that. I'm wondering if you have if I should refinance my student loans or if I should do a balance transfer on my credit card and what your opinions are the best way to get out of this debt as soon as possible. Yeah, what did you get your degree in?

Um criminology and sociology. I was planning to go to law school, but now it's too expensive. Yeah. So, how much are you making now a year?

Um so, I was working in my field, now I'm back waitressing. Right now, I make between $1,000 to $1,500 a week.

Wait, why are you Why did you get out of the field?

Because the job that I had gotten, I was

making more money serving.

So, I went back to serving because when I was working my regular job or working the job in my career, I only had like $300 at the end of the month to buy groceries and pay for things, so I thought it would be better to make more serving.

Okay. So, what were you doing? What was the job?

I was a probation case specialist.

So, what does the sort of ladder look like in the field that you're wanting to go into?

So, initially I was going in I wanted to

go to law school and then when I graduated I realized how much debt I had. So, probation was my next option.

It kind of goes probation case specialist, then case manager, and then being a probation officer.

Um But, that's not what you want to do.

That's just sort of what you fell into.

Yeah, I mean I would love to be a lawyer and go to law school, but I don't think that that's going to happen. I don't really see the point in getting $100,000 plus more debt

to go to law school.

Yeah, we definitely don't want to make the problem worse, but right now we're trying to go serving probably has a ceiling and it's a great side hustle, but it's not a career.

And so, my fear is you stick to this and 3 years from now you're still serving making the same amount and you haven't made much progress on the debt versus you got promoted, now you've been in this field for 3 or 4 years with more experience, now you're making 60, 70, 80. Mhm. >> That's the goal. And then what does your boyfriend do?

Um he was in the Coast Guard. He got out about a year ago and now he's waiting to get on the fire department.

Okay. And do you guys think you'll get married soon if you did get engaged?

Yes. Okay, just >> Well, I don't soon, I would say we wouldn't get married at least for 2 years, maybe 3. Okay.

Well, the truth is it's going to be hard to do this on just your income if you stick to this salary.

Yeah, the job that I have now I'm going I work at a different restaurant in the summer and there the on season there I

make like I can make $10,000 a month.

That's why I went back initially.

It's just the off season that's awful. Mhm.

Yeah, well I think long-term maybe you get through the summer and make that because I mean because you said 145,000, right? In student loans.

140. 140.

Um So yeah, I mean with at this rate I mean it's going to be a really long time till you pay these off and so like what George was saying, finding a career at any level. Now I don't care if it's with your degree or not, but just anything that you want to do, you need to start pursuing because getting in is

going to be really important and then you're going to start working your way up and that's where you're going to start to see raises and actually be making significantly more money to help pay off $140,000 of the student loans.

So um before you get off the call we still have a few minutes with you, but Christian pick up and we'll get you Ken Coleman's book Find the Work Your Your um Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Yeah. I know, sorry Ken.

So many words, Ken. I forgot the title, but it has a it has a um

like an assessment in the back of it that's going to be able to help honestly direct you and maybe give you some ideas career-wise. That's going to be really important in this because of the amount of student loan debt. So what type of student loan debt is it? Is it private, federal? Yeah, so three of them are through Sallie Mae and my interest rate on one

of them is 15% and the other two are I think 12 or 13. So I don't know if I should refinance. Yeah, it's possible.

Yeah, you could probably get a better deal. Just here's the parameters for when you should and could refinance a student loan. It's got to be completely free to make the change. You've got to keep a fixed rate if you have one or change over from variable. I assume these are all fixed rate loans. And then you either need to keep the same term for the refinance loan or possibly shorten it. So, what we don't want to do is make the term longer.

And then lastly, obviously, you've got to lower the interest rate. So, if you can check all of those boxes, it's worth looking into it to see if that can help you. But, it's not the solution. I don't want you to think that we've solved the problem.

And especially a balance transfer, that's a terrible idea cuz all it does is move the debt around and make it harder to pay off. Cuz now they're not split up. They're just in one giant pile.

Yes. And I'll send you my book as well.

It will walk you through the debt snowball method. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. There's a whole chapter on student loans that I hope gets you fired up. There's no way to reverse this.

You can't return the degree. >> so sick of it. Mhm. I wish there was refunds on your college degree, but you know, this is the This is the path and Desha, this is, you know, it's you did sign the dotted line, but too many students are led down this path of saying, "Hey, education is worth it at all costs no matter how much it costs you in student loans." And regardless of school, yeah.

>> And regardless of school and degree, and you don't worry, it'll ROI. It's a good investment in your future.

My Sallie Mae is 1336.

Um my other one is 133 and another one is 287. Wow. Mhm. So, we're like edging towards two grand just in minimum student loan payments. 1741, yeah.

And is that hitting any of the actual principal or is the most of that the interest?

Uh most of it's interest. I think it's been two years since I've graduated, it's gone down The total has gone down 2,000.

Yeah. Wow. >> So, that's the that's the hard cycle that has to break. So, Desha, honestly, I would be doing this this job that you're talking about. I would be waiting tables every weekends, every night. I would be working oh my gosh, 80 hours a

week. I mean, honestly, like there's going to have to be a significant >> I'm trying, yeah. Yes, like a significant significant bump. And what

George was saying, too, you know, not that your, you know, fiance is necessarily the answer, but if you guys ended up getting married and you combine finances and you guys work at this together, the double income idea, you

know, don't get married for that reason, obviously, but having that double income is helpful, too. So, I would not wait until this debt is paid off to get married. We never say to wait on life events, you know, people are like, "Well, I don't want to have a baby or I don't want to get married because I have all this debt." Life has to go on, and so, if anything, if he really is the one

from a mathematical perspective, a dual income can help knock this out, too.

>> Making 150 to pay off 140 is a lot easier than making 50 on your own.

>> Yeah, hold on the line, Desha. Christian's going to pick up to get you those books.

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Up next in Springfield, Virginia, we

have Sophie on the line. Hi, Sophie.

Hi, Rachel and George. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um I am a long-time listener and I just

finished reading The Total Money Makeover, which was really energizing to read. And I've been listening to the podcast just non-stop in recent weeks cuz I just need to internalize everything and my husband and I are on the same page, you know, about what kind of position we are in. And so, there's a teamwork element there and we're very optimistic because there are lots of people who are in Anyway, um Sorry, I didn't realize how emotional I was going to be getting on the >> What's going on? I am

I have um words.

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry. >> No, you're fine. Take your time.

>> dying or anything, but It's stressful.

Um I have 10-month-old twins and a 2-year-old and Well, that's why you're you're emotional, Sophie. You haven't been sleeping. You've got babies, babies, babies.

Yeah. This is probably the most time you've had to yourself in a long time, just you calling into the show.

Oh my gosh. That is actually true.

>> So, you got three little ones, and what's happening?

So, we um I have been at work um since they were about 3 months old, the twins. Mhm. And um we've we've had a um nanny, and she's amazing. Um but we

are um my husband's work is in sales. I now make salary.

Um I thankfully received a promotion when I came back from maternity leave, so that was a blessing for sure, and it definitely has been helpful, cuz now I'm on salary instead of hourly, so it's a little bit more predictable. Um I make

for context, I make 75. My husband is in

um sales, and so it really fluctuates.

It's very seasonal.

Um and this month in particular was the lowest he's ever earned, and so um it's just put us in a position where we are looking at rent, looking at paying the nanny, looking at car payments, looking at that kind of stuff, and it's just all like I don't see it coming together in time.

And so, I'm just wondering um what kind

of first steps would be advised? Okay.

Um well, we always talk about when there's an urgent situation like this.

From a cash flow perspective, there's a couple of things. Number one, before any debt is paid, rent is paid, okay?

So, rent, food, and anything transportation. So, gas to

get you to and from work, okay?

Um the car payment would would be close in there um to make sure that you're not getting behind on that, but rent is rent is

before the car payment, okay? So, the order of priority is very important that what is taken care of is taken care of of things that are needed, okay?

Um, so, the priority is important, number one. And then number two, where you draw the line of where the money runs out.

And then what's below that is going to have to be a conversation either with

a place, a creditor, a nanny, I don't know what that looks like, but where do you think this month the money's going to run out? If you paid rent, if you paid utilities, and if you paid food and made sure you had gas in the car, where would the line where would the money run out, do you think?

Um, well, I once um, this payment I just put through or the anyway, I'm going about to have $200 probably in my checking account. I've got a little bit of cash, a couple hundred bucks. Um, and cash cash continues to come in.

I I'm I manage a restaurant, so there are some little things that I do within the business where I take a little cash, so that that's it's small, but it's not nothing. I would say a couple hundred bucks a week. Um, but uh, we are going to have to pay the nanny about a grand.

Um, and um, my so, I'll be paid

a little after the first, like whatever that Wednesday is, around the first. Um, and my net is 2171, so that'll be mine.

My husband gets paid on the first, he gets 971.

And um, our rent is 2650.

And so, I'm kind of seeing like

everything So, my my

Yeah, I don't know. My my we pay $400 a month in freaking formula. I haven't even That's not even included in diapers. Right. Right. >> Um so we've been collecting some cloth diapers. Um we got some on our registry.

Originally, I got some from my local by nothing group. I'm all about that, by the way. That's such a great Yeah. Yeah. Yes, totally. And And those little things are very helpful, for sure. But looking at the big picture, is there um is there extra hours that he can work

or you can work or he could pick up a side hustle at night just to be getting getting cash flow in? If you can make an extra I don't know. For $500 a week doing DoorDash or something

at night. What does that look like? I did I did sign up for Instacart delivery. Um There's There's some There's spotty little places where I could do a couple hours here and there. Um I'm on a wait list. Um so I That's hopefully going to come through. Um I mean, we have bartending experience. I could see if my husband has any interest in picking up like >> Yeah, that'll make good money. Nights and weekends, for sure.

Cuz so the thing the thing about the nights and weekends, that's when I work. So I don't know if that's going to work.

>> Right. So the nanny is part-time. She's there from 12:00 to 6:00 Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, because I go in.

And um I Excuse me. And uh I'm the closer on Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays. I open on Saturday, Sundays. And my husband um has the kids.

Um Okay. So you're just using her when you really need her when you both are at work. >> Yeah. Right. So she's part-time. And theoretically, we could really cut her hours, but then I don't know that she would stay with us. And Yeah, if anything, it would be the opposite. It would be finding a cheaper sitter maybe for two or three nights throughout the week, so you're both earning more even with what you're paying a sitter.

Like it's going to be hard, you know, and I know you feel that. You I can feel I know >> hard. and he and I are like How much the cars So So what kind of debt what kind of debt is there?

So the cars um one of them is I think about 14,000 on

it um and the other They're about the same um

Excuse me, one of them the minivan we had to So we we got the Tucson first and that's when we were about to have our son because we were like, "Okay, we're about to have a baby. We need We had my um 2008 Elantra at the time which had been paid off a long time ago and but she she got to a like to 200,000 miles so we had to eventually >> what if you sold those private party each of those vehicles, how much could you get for them?

So um the minivan is a unique scenario

sort of um so when we were having the twins and we were about to have three rear-facing car seats they the the police station that helps put car seats told us that and and was correct. I mean that the car seats didn't fit side by side. She was like, "If you had two rear-facing and one forward it would fit but like just the mechanics of it." So we had to get a different car. My aunt

um actually gifted us the money to buy a

newer minivan. We I had I hadn't read The Total Money Makeover yet so I hadn't internalized the value of going the snowball method like and and and mentally like >> Who Who Who owns the van? Whose name is the van under?

Yours? >> Mine. >> Okay. Do you know how much you would get for it if you guys sold it?

So probably 30 but morally I'm wondering if that's >> You would get 30,000 for this van? So you could net 16.

It's a It's a 2022 and we my aunt gifted us the basically the cash for it cuz she wanted us to have >> are you in debt with it then? If she if she gave you It sounds like you bought a more expensive car. She gave you 14 and you spent 30.

I paid off our credit cards cuz that was a higher interest. Well, then let's not talk morals if we used it for something else anyways. >> Sophie, this is a this is a bright light. Get rid of this van. Get rid of this van. You'll have $16,000 cash. That's how you pay rent. You know what I mean? Like, yes, and so I would get rid of this van tomorrow.

>> And then get something in cash and that frees up a payment. >> up a payment and then even the $14,000 other car, if you can if you're not underwater on it, get rid of that. These this frees up money. You guys have to make some extreme sacrifices cuz you're in an extreme state. So, remember, prioritize the budget. Food, shelter, utilities, transportation gets paid, okay? And then we're going to start working our way out of debt by working extra.

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Next up, we have a Tyler in Philadelphia. Hi Tyler, welcome to the show.

Thanks guys. How are you guys doing? Yeah, we're doing great. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

So, my wife and I have been struggling with this question ever since we had our daughter about 8 months ago. Um So, my wife is a stay-at-home mom, is it morally right of me to ask her to work a

shift or two a week when my income is more than enough money to pay for our bills, um pay debt payments, and even pay a little bit extra on debt.

Is it morally right?

Um I probably wouldn't put that wording to

it. I would say I would frame it more as

um is it o- is it okay for her to work outside the home? Is it okay for the value system of our family and how we want it to look and run?

Uh that we're maybe doing a different plan, we're changing that plan from what we originally thought in order to hit goals. Like, yeah, I To me, it's not a moral question. It would be more of a values question for you guys.

Okay. >> So what's the motive in wanting her to pick up some shifts?

I just want to be able to like obviously we have a plan to be able to pay off debt, but her being able to work a little bit and pick up a couple shifts would be able to allow us to kind of make that plan go a lot faster and we're just kind of not on the same page.

I think it's the the latter. I'm trying to trying to pay off debt at all. >> Okay. Okay, so that so then yes, it would be very difficult to tell your wife to go back to work for something that she doesn't really care about.

>> moral issue. It's just strategically wrong to demand. It's just not going to go well. And saying like, "Hey, can you pick up some work?" to a person who's been working all day in the home.

That's where I think it can get defensive. >> Yeah, well and she's going to go to work for something that she's not interested in and that's to pay off debt and she didn't care to pay off debt. >> you guys to be united on the goal and then what levers can we pull in order to make this go faster?

>> So what is causing her not to care about

the debt? Is she just like it's not a big deal, we're fine?

I I think the way she the way she was brought up, I mean her my my my parents

and her parents had very different views on money and so my parents were very much get out of debt like debt free as soon as possible whereas her parents have kind of always that that's not money's not always been the most important thing in their life and so coming from such different backgrounds Yeah. >> it's hard to hard to find that common ground. >> have you guys been married?

Uh about 2 years. Okay. When did you decide that you want to get out of debt?

It I for the first 6 months of our marriage I wasn't as um I wasn't as gung-ho about it as I should have been, but then about a year and a half I really I sat down and really looked at all of our finances and I said like we got a mess here. We we got to get ourselves out of it. Have you Have you shown her that? >> it's been a year and a half of this conversation.

Yeah, it's unfortunately it's just one of those sore subjects that every time it's brought up it it usually ends in a fight or it just we we we drop it and then and talk about something else cuz we don't ever get anywhere. >> Does she Do you guys sit down together and talk about money on a regular basis? I mean not not about the debt necessarily, but bills and goals for saving or

anything along those lines?

Yeah, that that's the crazy thing is that she's she's completely on board with the budget and like we we have a great budget going on. Like she's she's completely on board with that and spending within her means. It's just the the aspect of wanting to try and make a little extra sacrifice and she doesn't have Yes, correct.

>> Okay. Well, at what rate will you pay off debt without her picking up more work?

It would probably take us 5 to 7 years, I would say.

>> What kind of debt is it?

It's uh it's 85,000 total.

Uh it's a combination of student loans and the car loan. We have a loan to my dad because he'll pay off For a what? >> on that. So it's a lot of different aspects. What's the debt to your dad?

I thought your parents were the ones that didn't like debt.

Yes, correct. They He Like we had $20,000 in credit card debt and my dad came to us and said, "Well, I'm going to I'm going to pay this off for you guys.

You're just going to pay me back in a loan that way you guys aren't getting killed with the interest involved in that." Oh boy. Okay. So you owe him 20 grand?

Yeah. >> What's on the car loan?

Uh about 10,000. Okay, what's that thing worth? If you sold it private party >> Pretty much right at 10. It's pretty It's pretty much right at 10,000. Okay.

And then the majority student loans?

It Yeah, it's about 55,000 in student loans. >> Okay. Well, how much do you How much do you make a year?

105.

Okay.

Um Yeah, I mean, I think it is going to It's going to come down to you guys sitting down and just saying and you explaining to her not that not saying you need to do this and you need to do that and you need to pick up work, but how you're feeling, right?

This idea of stress. You're You're feeling the weight of all of this. And to be honest, Tyler, you owe your dad 20 grand. Like, that's not fun.

That's not a fun place to be with your parents. For 7 years, every holiday's going to be a little awkward. Yes. So, Yeah. All So, all of that combined, she needs to understand and hear from you, her husband, what this what what kind of toll this is taking on you.

From a from a stress standpoint and emotional standpoint. >> I can't live with this stress for 7 years. Yes. That And and that's fair, Tyler. And I would hope that she would could look over and say, "Yes, I I see that my husband is majorly

struggling. This may not feel important to me, but it's important to him. And so, what does life look like for us to get, you know, past this and through this debt? And then that would be the conversation of looking at For me, it's always helpful to look at numbers cuz just this like never-ending idea of like, okay, I'm just going to be going back to work for this thing. That can That can feel like, you know, a

tunnel you're walking down and you can't see the end of it. And so, if you guys put in, you know, even like an Excel sheet or something and just say, "Okay, if we sacrifice and we lived on, you know, $70,000, and put everything else towards the debt, and you guys got really aggressive, like really aggressive, and she did not go back to work. I think you guys could have this paid off faster than 7 years, Tyler.

If you guys did nothing, nothing.

>> your rent or mortgage payment?

Uh 1,500 a month. Okay, that's reasonable cuz you're probably taking home what? A little over 6 grand a month?

Yeah, it's yeah, it's about 60 yeah, something like that. So, your total bills you're saying are about 5 grand and you can throw a grand towards the debt.

Correct. Okay, so then now the question is, well, we have 5 grand of bills, how can we get that down while you go make more? If she can't or is unwilling, then it's on you and that's new conversation.

Hey, I'm going to be gone a little more cuz nights and weekends are now going to be me side hustling because we can't be in this mess for 7 years. Yeah, if you guys could get to a point that you're throwing 3 grand at this debt a month,

right? I'm like that that significantly changes changes things. And that could be from extra work, that could be from

you guys taking your food budget to X amount down a couple hundred bucks. You know what I mean? Like it's it's it's moving the numbers around. >> is if you can't pick up extra work, we're going to have to have a budget of about $3,000 to live on.

And now you guys get to play that game and see what you can cut. And then if it gets uncomfortable, then we have to go, all right, we need to make more money.

One or both of us is going to have to do that. >> put in there and just say, hey, if you Yeah, is she a nurse? When you said shifts, what does that mean?

No, no, no. She she's a stay-at-home mom. No, I know, but you said she could pick up a few shifts earlier. Yeah, she

she used Before she had the baby, she used to work at a fast food restaurant.

Got it. Okay. >> Okay. Um Yeah, and you know, and you guys >> hard for me And you may look at it too >> It's just hard Look at it. Well, I was going to say, you may look at it too and say what she's bringing in versus child care may not even be worth it. You know what I mean? Like you guys may actually run the numbers and see. But it's hard for you what? Finish your sentence.

It's hard hard because I know how much work a stay-at-home mom is on on her and

I so I don't want to feel like I'm asking too much of her by by asking her even just to pick up a shift or two a week. Well, then change the sacrifice.

The sacrifice becomes we need to cut a bunch of things out of the budget. Our lifestyle is going to go down if we can't go make more. And so there's just there has to be a sacrifice on either side here and that might just mean right now you're working extra and cutting down on the budget in order to cut down this timeline.

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All right, let's go to Victoria in El Paso. Hi Victoria.

Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

I was needing some help figuring out

some guidance in the situation my husband and I are in. We recently purchased this home, started out doing small renovations that led us to discover big massive problems so much to the point to where our contractor did some digging, realized that the

permits that were pulled for this house were never completed, nobody ever inspected this house, nothing was signed off. Um there was never a certificate of occupancy on the initial home selling

and we have found like nothing in the plumbing, the electrical and at this point the building now is up to code, nothing absolutely nothing and so my husband and I have already invested close to $30,000 in renovations that we

were already budgeting to do for this house and that's not including all of the plumbing and stuff that we have recently found that are wrong with this and so we're just kind of trying to get some guidance on what our next steps are with all the information that we've gathered and have ceased work on our new house that we bought. Oof.

How long have you owned the house? When when did you buy it?

We closed January 29th of this year.

Oh, so super recent.

Yeah, we haven't even moved into this house. Like we were going to do all the small renovations like new flooring, baseboards, um some lighting, and then that was it.

We were going to move into our first ever home cuz we had been working so hard, paying off all of our debt like our college debt and everything. So, we were super excited for this big step and then suddenly we run into this massive massive problem.

And there's a lot of people who are incompetent to get us here. And so, we're not going to rehash all of that.

Let's just talk about what you can do at this stage. Cuz right now you are you could be legally liable to get this thing up to code.

Exactly. And so, number one, I would be contacting a real estate attorney.

Correct. We are in the process of trying to figure that out. I've collected all original tax documents. Do you have the permit history?

Uh I am I am in the middle of requesting it. They will be sending us those documents on Monday. And I even went to the title company and they have no record of the certificate of occupancy for the people that owned the house prior to us cuz they were the first home buyers to the new home and then for us as well. Was there title insurance?

At closing? Um for us there was. I don't

know if I can't speak for the people prior to us. Well, I'm wondering if that title insurance could help you in this case.

It could cover some of the stuff that was undisclosed. And then the other part is the listing agent, the person who sold you this home. You could file a complaint against them as well with you know, your state's real estate commission. >> Yeah, have you contacted your real estate agent, Victoria?

I have. She said that from the legal

counsel she sought out that as a since

this wasn't a new home buy for us, that theoretically we were all in the clear not having to ask for a title of occupancy and for any of proof that the permits were completed or anything was up to code with this house.

A lot of assumptions made here.

Okay. Oh boy, and you guys didn't get an inspection. We did. So, we got an inspection. The inspector never flagged anything that we

He There was a couple of things that he flagged, but those were like minor neg- negligible things that my husband's like, "I can fix." Such as like the vent on the top of the house wasn't done correctly. So, things my husband's like, "It's not a big deal. Like, there's nothing massive." All the problems that we found in this house are all things that were not visibly able to see, obviously.

>> Okay. So, it's not something the inspector should have reasonably caught?

>> I'm wondering. >> Cuz if so, they have their own insurance that you could file for them. >> I'm shocked that nothing I mean, from what you're making it sound like, I'm shocked that the Yeah, that there was no level of any problem from the inspector.

Oh, yeah, for sure. We're We're so in shock that somehow we got from There was

Someone had purchased property, and then suddenly there's a house, but there were no signatures and no signature trail from A to B, and then somehow though we're all kind of we're connected to all kinds of city resources though, even though the city's like, "Yeah, none of this was completed. Nothing was ever signed off on." I mean, nothing is making sense. No dots are connecting. And we >> title clean?

Like, everything's good with the title? That's what I almost would be feel I'm scared that someone else's name is is in all of this, too. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I have no I mean, honestly, at this point I've I feel like the only thing that I felt was in the right direction was to to try and go and like all the original documents for this house and the property taxes and everything. >> Yeah. Before someone tries to cover something up when they find out that we're coming in.

>> days? I mean, of the of well, I guess a little over 90. I mean, close to 90 days. So, >> Right.

Right? You're not You You haven't owned it for 2 years and you're finding all this stuff and you're trying to backtrack everything. Um that this closing just happened. So, I would I would talk to a real estate attorney to probably get some good course of action.

Because from especially from a in Texas

like specific state laws and different things right different states run things differently. And so, they're going to know from a state specific side um, how to move forward. But yeah, I would make sure the even in Texas clean all of it. Yeah.

Yeah, if there's a lack of certificate uh, certificate of occupancy, I think your attorney's going to have a field day with this one. But it's going to cost you before we can get out of this mess or solve it. So, that's the not fun part. This is going to be a full-time job for you guys just to deal with. I'm so sorry. >> Yeah, it's horrible. So sorry, Victoria.

All right, let's go to Brad in Huntsville. Hi, Brad. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking the call. >> Absolutely, how can we help?

So, basically me and my wife, we're 26 years old. We don't have any debt apart from a mortgage. But we have two homes.

One is completely paid off and the other one we have about $270,000

in mortgage debt on. So, our plan was to hopefully sell our house and then pay off the entire mortgage.

But now it's looking like there's going to be about $30,000 difference. we have we have close to like $350,000

in investments. And we're just deciding whether it would be wise to take that 30K difference and put it into the house to pay off the mortgage or if we should just try to pay off the mortgage as fast as possible, you know, over the course of like 2 years. >> Yeah, how much do you guys make a year?

We make $5,795

a month. So, that's like $69,000 a year.

Like in Texas, like that's the bring take home pay. Yep. When you say investments, are these retirement accounts or non-retirement?

Non-retirement accounts. Okay. Where'd that money come from? And what were you investing for?

Yeah, so some of it's we me might have some businesses some franchises that we sold so we got some that way some of was it like inheritance stuff others has

been different real estate stuff so it's just kind of a combination of all the things.

>> not really earmarked for anything it was just sort of a pile of money of profits that have just been sitting there in like a brokerage account.

Yeah, it's in brokerage account and you know like in my head in my head you know I we have other stuff going on for retirement too but in my head it's part of my retirement even though it's not like an earmarked retirement account.

>> if you have no mortgage no payments and you're investing from 26 for the rest of your career you're going to be multi multi multi millionaires I'm not really concerned I would be taking that 30k out plus whatever you'll owe in capital gains taxes on the growth and knock out that mortgage.

>> Okay. And then with that freedom payment let's do something smart with it you know. >> much is the mortgage payment a month?

So again so right now but we're selling we're closing on the sale of our house next week so that's when we actually get to take that big chunk of money to pay down the house we currently have but like I said the current mortgage is 270k so that's like a $1700 payment.

>> Got it. And so but but if we were to just take it and not pay off the $30,000 difference the the principal you know just just the mortgage side of it not including the home insurance would be like 190 bucks a month. Nice. Got you.

Yeah I would do that and this is let me clear for the listeners it's because it's in a non retirement account so you're not going to be facing penalties you're just going to have the capital gains tax and so I would definitely do that you'll still have a giant pile of money and no payments for the rest of your life at 26 dude you guys won the lottery. >> Well done Brad yep paid off tonight and

enjoy.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Kamel and we are answering your questions. So, it's open phones at 888-825-5225.

So, give us a call. All right. First up, we have Nehemiah in Charleston. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so I'm 21 years old. Uh when I

graduated high school, uh I thought credit was the main thing that I had to focus on and uh I I ran it up pretty quick.

And uh I was handling it pretty decent, but I recently uh lost my job and now I'm back working, but I took a major pay cut at least in my uh book and uh I'm just

trying to figure out how can I uh handle it better. So, like whenever I get out of this, I know the right steps to do next time. Yeah, absolutely. So, how much debt are you in?

Uh around 25,000. 25,000, okay. And is that

mostly credit cards or what what kind of debt is it?

Uh I have 14,000 towards my truck. Uh

my truck had a problem that needed to be

fixed. And that was $5,000 towards

repairs.

And then the job I was working at, I needed tools. Uh and that was roughly around 3,000. Okay.

And is that was that on a credit card?

Uh yes, ma'am. Okay. So, you got the truck loan and then a bunch of credit card debt?

Yes, sir. Okay. What are you making right now?

Uh 800 a week. Uh 40 That's 41,000.

And 600 a year. Okay. And that comes out to What's your take home pay?

Every month. >> Uh right at 800. Okay.

So, what do you >> 800 a month a week.

800. >> A week. Okay. >> 800 a week. >> Got you. Got it. And what is your rent right now?

Uh I'm currently staying with my mother.

Okay, good. I just don't want to bite off no more than what I can chew now.

Well, we yeah, we tried that game. We played with the snakes, we got bit. So, here's the good news. You don't need to worry about your credit score once you've paid off all this debt.

Yes, sir. Cuz the point of credit scores is to get you some more debt at better rates. That's the game. Yes, sir. But, if you want to live more freely, you just don't go into more debt. And you can still rent apartments, rent cars, even get a mortgage without playing the credit score game. And I I'll walk you through that. I'll send you a copy of my book, Nehemiah, and I have a whole uh chapter on credit scores I want you to read as some homework.

All right. So, the goal now is how low can we get our expenses, how high can we get our income to create this beautiful gap called margin to throw with this 25K?

Yes, sir. So, right now, how much do you think you'd have if you live pretty tight? How much could you throw at your debt?

Uh, I'm throwing about

600 at it right now. I mean, I'm I'm I'm

living off of chicken, eggs, and rice.

So, you're but you're saying you're living at home, so your expenses should be pretty low.

Yes, sir. Well, my mother uh she's actually out of work right now. She's been having some uh serious medical uh issues. So, I'm I'm doing what I can

do.

>> Uh, not completely cuz she is on a disability, but I I I am helping out. Okay.

So, what do your total bills add up to?

>> Uh

What?

Cuz here's the math on this. I'll just show you what I'm doing in my head, some napkin math. You have 25 grand in debt.

So, if you could put a thousand bucks toward the debt, you're done in about two years.

All right. >> So, the goal is how do we get out of debt in less than two years? Well, we need to put more than a thousand bucks a month toward the debt. So, that becomes the goal, and now it's how do we get our expenses down, income up in order to do that.

>> Yeah, and I would say, I mean, I would go even bigger Nehemiah, too. If you think about if you're if it's 600 right now, could you make it a goal to earn an extra $1,000 a month by working nights and weekends and just working like crazy.

a month, then that's yeah, $1,600

go into that debt and that, you know, That speeds it up. >> Yeah, I mean, it cuts it not quite in half, but close to it. That would get you out of debt in about 15 months instead of 24 25 months. Yeah.

So, it's just it's it's those seasons of sacrifice. Um and you're doing you're doing a lot, too, Nehemiah. I mean, helping your mom. Do you know um do you see kind of an end to when she may be able to go back to work to to for

her to support herself? Do you see that happening anytime soon?

Uh yes, ma'am. She She making She's making some uh improvements, but it is

like with the uh physical labor at at her job that she works. I got you. Okay.

>> She hasn't been cleared yet. >> Cuz how much are you paying towards her stuff a month? A couple hundred bucks?

Uh yes, ma'am. Okay. So, yeah, so when that clears up and if she's able to get back to work, you know, that's a couple hundred bucks again freed up.

Um so, I think there's there's um yeah,

some definitely some a bright future.

And you're 21, you said?

Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Well, I'm so thankful you called Nehemiah and so encouraged by you, honestly. Like if you can learn this stuff at 21 and you're learning to chase the right things, like having a plan and you have a budget and you start saving for an emergency fund after you get out of this debt and you start investing, like all of that is in just the next four to five years for you.

I mean, you you're going to be able to do some incredible things financially. Like completely change your family tree. Like you're going to be able to to build wealth so quickly because you're getting this so young. And so, I would have some big goals, you know?

and get out of the status. Say you do that in Say Say you do that in a year and a half, okay? Maybe you kind of get a raise here or there. You get some money flowing. And so that's 18 months.

Yeah, so that'll be what, end of 2027?

Pull up the investment calculator, George. Let's just Yeah, so end of 2027,

and then your goal, Nehemiah, is to get a 3-month emergency fund, okay? So, all of your expenses, and I would include rent in that cuz I think eventually you're going to move out. And you're going to have a rented apartment or get a place, okay? So, you're going to get about a 3-month emergency fund.

And then from there you can start investing after that emergency funds and/or start saving up for a down payment to own a home one day, right?

So, so those are some There's some big goals. But, when you start investing, and let's say you start investing, Nehemiah, at 25 years old, um and say,

you know, you put, I don't know, George, what, a thousand bucks a month, right?

So, say all of this that you're doing, and and at this point you're you're maybe down a career path, you know, who knows what's happening with your income.

And say you put, you know, a thousand bucks a month aside and you're and you're investing from age 25 to 65, what

is that, George? That would be with a 10% return, $6.3 million if you consistently put a thousand bucks a month a month away.

Oh. In retirement. >> Do you know anybody that has $6.3 million in in your circle? >> No, sir. You might be the first. Nehemiah might be the one. We'll talk to you >> and and look, here's the thing, there's people with 800 credit scores who have nothing in retirement. And they're real proud of it, aren't they?

They go, "Man, I got a great interest rate on my truck." And you're going, "Dude, I've had a I got a 2008 truck I've been driving till the wheels fall off, and I'm putting every dime into investments instead of a depreciating asset." That's the kind of mentality that will cause you to be wealthy. Yeah.

And so, we are very We have a lot of confidence in you because you're so young and you've got a bright future ahead and you can knock out this debt in 18 months. >> Yes, I mean I would get I would be so motivated and to stay debt free Nehemiah for the rest of your life. You save up and pay for things. You learn to live a life where you're not sitting there trying to impress everybody else, but you're diligent, you have a plan, you have goals and uh George's George's book

Breaking Free from Broke is going to help walk through all of that for you.

So, stay on the line and Christian's going to pick up and we'll give you that as a gift and yeah, Nehemiah, we're cheering you on. We're excited for you.

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Up next, we have Austin in Indianapolis.

Hey Austin.

Hello, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Um I my name, like you said, is Austin.

Um, I'm 28 and I have about $375,000

in debt. $375,000?

Yes, ma'am. >> include a mortgage?

Uh, yes. The mortgage is about 120-ish.

Oh, okay.

Dang. Okay, so what's the rest of the debt? The rest of the 250,000?

Like what 190 to 200 is an SBA loan on

uh my business, which is my full-time Okay. income. Is it profitable?

That's why I'm calling you guys.

Okay. >> Oh, that's not good.

So, when I purchased >> only hope to make this business profitable. Oof.

What's the business? Uh, it's it's I'm a small distributor for a snack company. I deliver to uh big

box grocery stores. Okay, what was the loan for?

Uh, the loan was was for the acq- acquisition of the business that I bought from the last individual that owned it. Oh, okay. Was it profitable when you bought it?

Yes, sir. Okay.

So, what's going on now with it?

So, basically uh

How do I word this? So, basically the the last owner of it um he was he was

doing about It's 100% commission. Um, he was doing about $15,000 a week in sales,

so he was taking home about $2,200.

Um, and since then all of the all of the stores had had resets done, so my

product presence has kind of slowed down a lot in there. Um, and I'm doing about 10,000 to 12,000

a week on a good week.

And what are you taking home from that?

Um

Uh, it It's it's not a lot. So, I'm I'm making about 15 to 1,800 dollars a week.

Okay. Where does the other $10,000 go?

So, some months I'll do like 5 or 6,000,

7,000, and then some months I'll do 10,000. So, I have I pay about $3,000 a

month just on the SBA loan for the business.

Um that's So, that's cutting into your profits. Correct. That's the bulk of it. And you're doing this full-time, 40 hours a week? >> Yes. Yes, sir. More than that, but yes.

>> Okay.

And you're making about 5 or 6K a month.

Yes. Mhm. And you've got a sizable level of debt.

What's the other 60 grand in consumer debt? About 30,000 is credit cards. Um

20 of that is just regular this and that

on my wife's credit card.

Um about 2,000 is my credit card, just regular consumer. And then 8,000 of the

rest of it is on a new HVAC system for our house that we got last year. Okay.

Does your wife work?

Uh no. We have uh three and a half children. Okay.

Uh Well, congratulations. My oldest stepson is 19. He He supports himself.

He just He lives with us. That's why I said a half. Okay. Okay. So, this is even riskier cuz you're a single income household on 100% commission.

Correct. >> guys have anything in savings?

Uh we have our $1,000 emergency fund.

And I have about $600 in my wallet of

money that was given to me by by various family members to keep gas in my truck so I can keep working.

Wow. So, are you that Is it that tight every month to where you're barely scraping by cuz you got 3,000 loan plus all the family expenses making five grand total. What's your rent or mortgage? Uh, about 1250.

So, just between the 1250 mortgage and the three grand to service the loan, you're already barely putting food on the table. Correct. Do you see an upside? Do you have a hope that this business is going

to be profitable soon? Like, do you see a an actual realistic future?

So, I have a couple more accounts, a couple more uh grocery stores that are opening up in my area. Um, one of them is going to I'll I'll probably do on the low end about $2,000 a week in sales in there.

Um, so that'll be, you know, a chunk extra, I guess. When does that happen?

Uh, in June is when they're opening.

Okay. How old are your kids?

Um, The three. >> We have the night the night the Okay, uh 12. He'll be 13 soon. And then uh my

daughter just turned seven and then my youngest son just turned three. Okay, so the three-year-old son. I'm just was wondering if your wife could jump in and do Yeah, do Yeah, do something while the kids are in school at least. Um, but the three-year-old

>> we've been talking and trying to figure out like when my three-year-old goes to school that she could go find somewhere to go. Yeah, but that's going to be in like two years unless you unless you guys are going to do a preschool or something. You know what I mean? Like, I do wonder um, just just for a six,

seven-month period. It doesn't have to be long, but for you guys an extra thousand bucks a month is a is life-changing. So, to supplement a little bit, um, my dad is also in the same business just for another company.

Um, I've kind of worked my route around to where I can spend Wednesdays with him and he's offered to to pay me some extra

totaling about like a thousand, sixteen hundred dollars a month extra. Okay. Um, >> That'll help knock out these little debts at least. >> you be working with him on on versus just in the business?

Uh because most most of my accounts are big contract accounts and a lot of his are small cash stops. Um and the big contract accounts are their receiving are all closed on Wednesdays. >> Gotcha. Gotcha.

>> have I have a couple stores that will let me come in on Wednesdays but I've just started doing those. >> Well, that's great. I mean an extra Yeah, 1,500 bucks doing that. That's going to be very helpful.

Yeah, your best bet is just to get more of these big contracts and make this business more profitable in order to have some extra. Yeah, and you and your wife also I mean this $200,000 small business loan is like but you guys need to sit down and you both need to have a date on the calendar that we can't we can't live like this for the rest of our lives. So what's the point If we're still here a year from now. >> that we eject.

We need to start having some really serious conversations about what it looks like to get out of this business because >> Cuz if you can just go work full-time making 70 or 80, it's a better bet.

Yeah. Even still having this business loan. Is there a way you could sell this business to someone else?

I could I could. Um the problem is I'm

kind of upside down. So I I owe like 190, 200 on on the business and on paper

it's probably worth about 140, 150.

Okay. Well, I mean even if you came up with a difference, it still might be worth getting out of this eventually.

Yeah. Or getting the business out What I would do is get a profitable enough Yeah. >> mean yeah, if you I mean if you hit some big accounts and you get it back going and it's actually a blessing in your life. Yeah, long-term then obviously that's the win but if if it's if you're running your wheels like this, you can't be doing this for another two, three, four years, Austin, right?

Uh yes. That That is correct.

>> Yeah, so you guys you and your wife need to sit down and just have some some

level of a plan. Some timelines. What's going to happen if this happens, here's what we'll do. If this doesn't happen, here's what we'll do.

Cuz right now >> benchmark net at this point. We need to see this and this, right? Because if the if the June accounts don't end up happening, you know, then then you're still exactly where you are. You're right.

So, there needs there needs to be some benchmarks that you guys need to be hitting. And if that's not the case, then yeah, we got to figure out what to do. Cuz like George said, even if you found something that paid 80 grand a year, you're still going to have this debt. But hopefully with this, you know, even if it even if you get it cut in half selling it for not not a lot, that's 100 grand.

And people got student loans for 100 grand, you know? You just look at it as another debt to to get out. And Austin, dear lord, please cut up the credit cards.

Yeah, that's Cut them up tonight.

The majority of the 20,000 was groceries. Do you have Do you have one? Yeah, well, get it out.

You guys got to figure out. Go shop at Aldi. Yeah. Beans and rice, rice. You don't get fancy food, right? You can't You guys can't afford it. >> And adding this guardrail is going to help you get out of this mess.

Right. And it's going to be hard. You're going to have to get creative. But once you take debt off the table, we can finally get out. >> you. Please. We got to plug the leak first. Absolutely. Yeah, you're not going to be able to get out of this mess as you continue to dig out the bottom.

So, cut them up tonight. You guys need some some extreme changes. So, I'd make a timeline and I'd cut up credit cards for the business. That's That's what I would make a timeline for the business and cut up the credit cards tonight.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." it's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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Today's question comes from Diana in Minnesota. She says, "My husband and I have just started looking at our every dollar budget together once a month. Sometimes it feels like we're just staring at our screen and have no idea how to talk about the budget. What are some strategies to use these monthly budget meetings to forward ourselves?

This is a nice question. So, Rachel, you talk a lot about the budget meeting.

At least once a month we're talking about this, sitting down. It doesn't have to be an hour, doesn't have to be dramatic. Yeah, no. So, it's I mean, when when I think about the monthly budget, honestly, I would say for us, 80% of the expenses are the same month to month. Like the categories really don't change. And then there's a there's probably five to six categories that change month to month or that we add.

>> be like activity-based, calendar-based.

Well, this thing's happening that we need to have the money >> for us, honestly, our budget meeting looks like a calendar meeting when we look ahead cuz I'm like, okay, we got, you know, this thing coming, you know, Winston has a a trip coming up with some guys for his birthday. So, it's like, hey, we have that, we got this. Like, you end up talking about, I mean, for us, the calendar, kids school stuff, uh camp sign-ups for the summer, you know, like we're we're like looking at all of these things that are going to be happening that month.

And for us it takes 5 minutes. Like our budget meetings are not long. >> Yeah, once you get in the habit of it, it's quick. >> It's so quick. Yes, but you do want to have a meeting though, I say a meeting,

but to have conversations, we do it once a year and you can do it more, to be dreaming and thinking through your long-term plans. What are the bigger goals? >> Yes. And this is probably once you're in Baby Steps 4 and beyond, right?

Cuz your big goals if Baby Steps 1 through 3 is to get out of debt, get that emergency fund. And that's that's what you're working towards. But after that, you kind of say, okay, as we're investing in retirement, we're looking to pay off the house, um what are some other goals that we have? Is there renovations around the house we want to do?

Do we need to replace a car? Do we want to go on a trip?

And then we even look out as far as down

the road and just say, if money were no option, what would we do when the kids are in high school, you know? Would we want a second home one day? You know, like we start to dream that way. We don't do anything with that, but we at least get those conversations going.

Um >> Yeah, you don't want to fast forward 10 years and now you're on very different pages cuz you never talked about it. >> Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah. So, those are >> in baby step one through three, this looks different because it's it's pretty simple.

It's how little can we live on? How much can we throw at the debt? All right, did we assign those dollars to the debts? Great.

>> We're done. Yeah. >> So, it really starts with alignment on your money values and goals before you ever look at the screen. Cuz if you don't have that, you you are just staring at a screen going, all right, what now?

We're supposed to be doing this. >> Totally. And they're not exciting. So, if you guys have been doing it for a while and you're in a routine, it may be that kind of quick boring of like, okay, we did it, check, we're moving on, right?

>> usually more excited. The the free spirit is like, oh my gosh. I ran into a couple. I was sitting next to them at a coffee shop and they had their EveryDollar budget pulled up and they were doing their budget meeting.

With you sitting next to them?

I I felt like I was undercover boss.

>> I was going to say, how's it going?

>> anything. >> How's it working? How's it going? >> to make it weird. Like, hey, I noticed you guys were doing your EveryDollar budget. Can I help? >> need any help, any assistance. >> That would have been hilarious. This is me, George Campbell. >> wow, look at this couple actually budgeting. They're having a good time. They have their fancy coffees. And they're doing great. >> talking about what's going on this month. >> Yeah, looking ahead. I love it. Yep, hope that helps, Diana.

All right, let's go to Jessica in Richmond. Hi, Jessica.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, George. >> Hi, welcome to the show. How can we help?

So, my mom and I want to sell our homes and buy one together, but I think I'll need to use at least some of her savings in order to achieve that and I wonder if that's a bad idea.

Where do we start with the bad ideas you just listed off? Well, what what's going on here with the codependency of you and mom buying homes together?

Well, I'm going through my second divorce. She is widowed. She's 65 retiring this summer. She has limited mobility and we had a really bad ice storm here this winter and it was hard for her to take care of the house and the ice and the driveway and still try to get into work. I had to do the same to my house all by myself and so I figured that way we can take care of each other if we get a house together.

Got it. So you are kind of partial caretaker and you're coming off of this divorce and you're kind of needing a safe place to land and have some emotional moral support.

I guess you could say that. Okay. Uh are you an only child, Jessica?

I am. >> Okay. Well, that's helpful. I was going to say because you know, if you guys have this plan long-term and the house is left to you, right? I

don't know it's civil I don't know how that was going to work with all the the will and the estate and everything, but that kind of simplifies it. Do you see living with her for the foreseeable future or are you going to want to own a home yourself?

Well, she was going to put everything in my name so it would basically be like she's just living with me until

until she goes to the Lord.

Okay. So why not just you buy a house on your own?

I would like to do that. The problem is I don't think I have enough money. Um I currently have a home. Um it's a townhouse and I think I can only get about 190,000 if I sell it and try to

get a bigger home so that I can accommodate her, but with doing that the mortgage is going to be too much for just my income. Okay. And does she have income right now?

She does, but with her retiring in the summer, that income is basically going to go away and we don't know when social security and her 401k distributions will come in. Mhm. What would she get if she sells her home?

We're hoping she can get 200,000.

Okay. I'm I just think this is going to be a lot cleaner and simpler and less dramatic if one person owns the home.

That's what we were thinking, too. >> So maybe she pays toward the mortgage while she lives there, almost like she's paying you some rent out of her profits.

Well, we were thinking that. I was just thinking with paying off the house in case something happens like I lose my job. I didn't want us to have a mortgage payment over our heads. So, that's why I was thinking if we could just pay off the house all together, we have no debt.

Oh, just buy buy it outright is what you're saying. Exactly. So, she would use her profits and give them to you as almost like a gift. >> almost like that's part of your Yes.

Part of your inheritance you're getting early while she's alive.

Correct. So, the worry that we were having is selling my home first, putting the 190 down on a house, and maybe using some of her savings. She has 100,000 in savings. Maybe using about half of that to put a lot down on the house so the mortgage is decent for me to use while we wait for her house to sell because there is some work that needs to be done on it.

Oof.

How much does she have total in liquid assets right now?

Uh 400,000. Okay. What's in her 401k?

Uh she has a 401k in the amount of

uh 265,000 and then she has 164,000

in her government TSP. She's currently a government worker. Okay. So, about 420

or so in retirement another 400 in cash.

Right. >> in a pretty decent spot. What I don't want to do is deplete her money to pay off this mortgage and now she has no retirement and now you're funding her life forever.

I I wouldn't mind. That was one of the things I was thinking. It's like, "Well, come in. You know, we'll we'll get a house together. If you don't have income for a year while we're waiting on Social Security, that's all right. If we have no mortgage, I'll have the money to be able to afford our food and utilities."

Yeah, Yeah, just signing up for this this is it. You are signing up for to cover her bills for the rest of her life. And if you're okay with that, that's fine. But you also have to realize you have a life to live, too, and you could get remarried one day, right? I don't know. I'm not going to take a third marriage. I don't think I'm doing this again. I mean, never say never.

Yeah. Just saying, third marriages exist.

And so that's my fear is you marry this guy, he goes, "Hey, listen, you're moving into my house. Now Mom is living in your house, I guess, rent-free, or she needs to be a care You know, you need to be a caretaker, she moves in with you." >> Yeah, it just seems like a big I mean, a house is the you know, it it is probably the largest financial purchase, right, that you're going to make and she won't have cuz I would not put it in her name.

But if she called us, I'm trying to think what I would be telling her, right? What's best What's best for Mom um in the situation.

as well.

Next up, we have Elizabeth in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Elizabeth.

Hi, Rachel. How you doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So, my question is I've got family members that are moving across the United States. So, we live in Washington. It's pretty it's pretty spending here. I got an uncle that's moving him his family members all to Tennessee. They're trying to convince us to go with them.

I was wondering how the numbers pencil out when you decide to move like that.

What do you mean What do you mean by numbers?

So, like I mean here my husband makes

good money. I make pretty decent money part-time. He's got really good insurance. He works for a union.

Um and so right now he's making 45 an hour.

Well, we'll use that as the number. Okay. >> And if we move to Tennessee they my

uncle was like, "Oh, you can make 25 an hour." But the the cost of living is different over there. And we don't have

any job lined up. I just I'm kind of

curious if we're going to miss the miss the mark if that makes sense.

>> Why do you have to go when he goes?

>> Are you struggling right now? Are you guys struggling financially?

>> No. No, we're in a good spot. That's why that's why it's hard cuz it's more of an emotional attachment to go cuz

the the uncle that's moving is one of my like closer relatives if that makes sense. Sure, yeah. So, >> But there's no urgency here. You guys could find jobs >> No. and then move. Yeah, you can use a like we have a cost of living calculator on our website and you can start to go, "Okay, you could probably make 75 instead of 90 and it'd be about the same lifestyle because we have no state income tax in Tennessee and cost of living is a little cheaper than Seattle.

And so you can start to do the math on that and do some research ahead of time instead of just winging it. >> and like every state depending on which part of the state you move to is going to be different, right? You go to Jackson, Tennessee, that's going going cheaper than parts of Nashville, Tennessee, right? >> that our studio here is in, it's one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the nation.

And so, you would come here and go, "Oh my gosh, Seattle was cheaper.

That makes sense, and that's kind of where I was at because our our mortgage right now up here is very low. We're sitting at 2,000 a month, and our income

covers that. It's not too hard to save around it. We've got a decent amount in retirement. My big thing is I don't want to sell our house just to move somewhere else cuz we're going to be in the same boat. >> Elizabeth, it sounds like you don't want to move. You don't have to.

>> It sounds like you're planning to I think you're okay. I think you're okay. >> a couple of trips a year to Tennessee to see Uncle. >> Yeah, you're fine. >> the simpler move right now. And if you fall in love with it and you find a job here and get the job, well, now we can talk about moving. Yeah, but that's a that could happen in 2 to 3 years. You know what I mean? If you if you Guys, love it.

I've had a couple people trying to convince me. My best friend moved to like rural New York. She wants me to come over there. We've got some relatives in Pennsylvania.

Um now >> Just move everywhere.

It sounds like you're a free spirit. You've got a lot of good friends, you know? They all want to hang with you.

I got a lot of people, and I'm the second oldest of 12 children. Wow.

>> Good night. Okay, what does your husband say? What's he want to do?

My my husband is is more of a go-with-the-flow kind of a person. He hasn't said, "Let's move." He kind of goes, "Sounds kind of like a good idea, but I don't know." >> So, your friends are convincing you, and then it's your job to convince him, and then we'll just move around the country. >> Yeah, I I'm not feeling The The main reason people call, and it's usually a Washington, a California, like we'll we'll get we get certain parts of the country, and they're like, "I can't afford to live here. We can't buy a home.

We can't X Y and Z." And so, they move to further their income in order to do the things that they want to do. It sounds like you've done everything you want to do. You have the house that you want. You guys have great jobs, all of it.

It's just going to look you may just look up in a year or two and be like, "Man, I miss our family. So we want to move closer to them in Tennessee." And maybe that's what you decide to do. But you're not That's not pulling you right now. I don't have any compelling reasons to say yes, you should move.

Yeah, so I would I would just hold tight, Elizabeth. Calm down. Nothing is on fire. And let the Tennessee people move.

yeah, go visit them a couple of times a year and see if you guys still have this itch, you know, a year from now. And if you do, then you're both adults and you guys get to make a decision then that we want to look for jobs and move. But I would not do anything now because nothing is on fire. All right, let's go to Hannah in Dallas. Hi Hannah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are y'all? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so we've been advised by a couple different people in regards to selling our home that we should not put the 20%

down on the next home cuz we'll have a pretty good amount of equity selling our house. We're moving closer to our church and our community and our kids' schools.

So we will have a good amount of money to put towards our new house and they're saying not to put 20% down, but to save it and like fix the house up really nice and then in 6 months do a like a reappraisal or a recast or something like that to make our value then go up.

And so my husband and I are like, it's kind of like a game and we don't we don't know whether we should play it. Who When you say we're being told, who are these people?

Um so we've gotten a couple different uh well, for one, our realtor has told us this. He's like, "This is what we did with our last house and it's got us We went from like $1,000 extra every month and now we've taken that off of our mortgage every monthly or whatever." And then we talked to a couple different banks and like credit unions. They're like, "Yeah, that sounds like a great idea." So, we're just like, "I don't know if it is a great idea." Well, of course a bank is going to want you to put less down to take out more on the loan.

Um yeah, yeah, but like what does our realtor gain from us doing that?

>> Well, the realtor they're If you ever met a realtor, their risk meters are broken. They don't think in terms of I'm going to put cash into a thing. They go, "How little can I put into a thing to squeeze the most out?" And so, I wouldn't be listening to either of these people. I would just go, "Can we actually afford this home based on the number we're putting down?" And so, have you done the the numbers on that? Is there a house that you've already been looking at?

Yeah, so there's a house like we our our house is selling like this weekend or this next weekend and then the house we're buying is significantly lower. So, it needs like updated flooring and stuff, but we would make like $115,000

off the sale of our home for the person who sold us this next home. Okay. So, we have a really good amount that we could like put towards the house, but everyone's like, "You should hold on to that and fix the house up now nice now that you have a chance to." Well, you'll always have the chance to.

The question is how urgent are the renovations and can you just cash flow them once you're in? Cuz here's the thing, if you put more down, your mortgage is lower, meaning you have more margin every month to then cash flow the renovations.

But they're saying and like if we could have that higher monthly payment for like 6 months, then you have a higher value home and then your your mortgage will go back low. So, like I'm I'm always like >> on that part. Just because your home value goes up doesn't mean your mortgage payment goes down.

Cuz then it takes off the PMI is what they're saying. Cuz I can't if we don't put 20 down, we get the PMI and then we can get like 200 off our monthly every month is what they're saying. >> Got it because you have yes, because the debt-to-income ratio. You'll have more than 20% equity at that point based on

the value of the home. Okay, well, you could just avoid the PMI entirely by putting the 20% down and cash flowing the renovations.

Yeah, that makes sense when I'm on the phone with y'all, but I don't know how to say Well, the other piece of this is they don't know your finances. They don't know what 80% of on the mortgage is going to cost you every month and if that's feasible for your take Yeah, how much is the new home you guys are buying?

It's 325.

It's probably what we about what we would end up what we offered and what they accepted and all of that 325. Okay, so yeah, so you guys are putting down almost a third.

I almost 30% right if you put the 115.

Um What's your take home pay every month?

Uh my husband I stay home but my husband brings right at seven 7,000. Okay,

great. So based on that, if you look at the parameter of you know, fourth of your take home pay you're looking at 1750 is the goal. Even putting 115,000 down on a

325 house with the current rates, you're probably looking at uh 2200 2300 dollar

mortgage.

So here's the other thing they're not thinking about. >> within the parameters is what you're saying. It's tight. Now we say the 25% of take home pay that's after taxes but before any other deductions. So not don't include the health care premiums, the 401k contributions which will help your numbers here.

Okay. So I think you guys can do this but I would be putting all of the proceeds down on the next house. Yeah, cuz the goal is just to get out of debt as fast as possible and so when you're when you sit there and kind of just play all these games and move the numbers around praying that the that the interest rates and all everything are still going down right? Like you just don't know.

So If your husband income goes down, well now you still have to stuck with this high payment.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Camel and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next we have Lynn in Mobile, Alabama.

Hi Lynn, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. I'm I'm honored to talk with y'all today. Oh, well thank you for calling. How can we help?

Um my husband and I we are retired and we're doing fine.

Uh we have recently found out that uh

one of our granddaughters and her husband, they're in their early 20s,

are about $20,000 in debt and that

includes a car they owe $7,000 on

and it needs about $2,000 worth of work

in order to run.

Um my husband and I are at odds on what to do. Um one of us says we do nothing. We we they need to

learn how to handle money just like we did. >> That's your husband? >> Um yes, yes.

He's old school. And sweet Lynn, what do you want to do, Lynn?

Uh my suggestion is we give them Financial

Peace University and once they complete

that, then we give them, I don't know,

four or five thousand dollars to help start them to get out of debt.

Are they both working?

They are both working. They they make, my guess is, between 50 and 60 thousand dollars together. Okay.

Um Part of his concern is that they will spend the money on tattoos or more

animals or >> More animals? How many they got?

>> Yeah. They have a dog and a cat in an apartment. Oh, okay. So they're renting right now. And it sounds like he sees a pattern of financial misbehavior and he doesn't want to fund that misbehavior and enable it. That's correct. So I see his point and I also see your point in wanting to help your own granddaughter get a leg up in her adult life.

Yes. And no more tattoos.

How many they got? Are they tatted up?

I'm just kidding. Several.

Our joke amongst my husband and I is we can either spend the money or we can save it for them to buy more tattoos.

Okay, so Lynn, I love Are they asking for help?

No. Okay. So you're just seeing this play out. Um >> Yes. But she's told you cuz you know the numbers. Or did her mom tell you Did your daughter your daughter son Is this the gossip mill?

Yes, their their their the granddaughter's mother told us. Okay.

Um are the What are the What are they saying? Like her parents.

Your kids. What what are they saying?

Yeah, they they're not They just told us as a course of conversation.

>> Okay. So no one is panicked right now.

There's not They're not looking to change. They're not Yeah, I mean

I mean honestly Lynn, the the most I would do is gift them Financial Peace University and just say, I would I would

watch this if I were you guys. This This helped us and you know, tell them a little bit about your story, but I mean you You stick a hundred dollar bill on it. especially if they're not asking for anything, right? It'd be one thing if they called up grandma and grandpa and they were like, "Hey, I need help.

off a thousand.'" You know, you you can kind of like work with them to encourage them a little bit, but they're not even wanting to change, I don't think, Lynn.

Yeah, I I don't I don't think that they see the benefit in changing and I don't think they have any idea how much we have.

Are you guys pretty well off?

I I I mean, we're comfortable. Our our net worth is probably between 3 and 3 and 1/2 million. Way to go.

>> Well done. Yeah, Lynn, I I think as a grandparent, a gift like Total Money Makeover or Financial Peace University, I think is great. I think that's a great idea. Just to be like, "Hey, this is a this is a program when it comes to money that really helps and if you guys ever get stressed and you want to learn something, here's this." But that's I >> I wish I knew this stuff sooner, so I want to give this to you guys.

Yeah, and just say, "You could You guys could kill it financially. You're young, you're hard workers and if you actually create some good habits, you guys could really do well financially. You don't have to be stuck in debt." You know, you can give them a little pep talk, but I mean, if they're not looking to change, Lynn, I think that's the I think that's probably one of the hardest parts of life that you you know better than George and myself cuz you have lived you have lived longer lives than a longer life than us, but um when you see someone in your life who's making decisions that's not great for them, that's not fun to sit there and watch, but also knowing that you're not able to change them at all and they have not hit this point where life has been hard enough for them to say, "Well, what I'm doing isn't working." But that's not happening.

Okay. Other than enable it like your husband is worried about that. I think there's a higher chance they blow the money that you give them. So, if there's a tangible need that you want to cover and you can give directly to that, you know, if it's >> But they're not even asking for >> But they're not asking for it. They're not destitute. So, giving them a grocery store gift card is not going to help that much.

So, I think the truth is we're learning, you're learning that you can't change people as much as you want them to have a better life. It's up to them to go get that life.

But now my issue is I can't tell my husband he won.

I wouldn't I'm in fact, Lynn, I would not tell him he won. >> Yeah, just you you just say you know, just don't even bring it up. Yeah, don't even don't don't tell him. Don't Do not tell him you called. So, he doesn't go and listen to this, you know.

We're trying to We're trying to save face for you, Lynn. How long have you guys been married? >> I'm kidding. Um 30-something years. Yeah, that'll do

it. He probably needs a win. Just let him have this one. It's probably been a while.

I love this. You're so fun to talk to, Lynn. >> And I love the heart behind this. >> I know cuz it is hard when you're like, well, these are being stupid.

Why are they being stupid? >> And I'm picturing this being like my granddaughter, you know, like I wouldn't want to help them. >> on. Don't do this.

Um that's a hard that's a hard hard place. But you know what, Lynn? Stay in good relationship with them. Love them.

Be part of their lives cuz when they do hit a wall, which I think eventually they will, they're going to go Gosh, I wonder what Grandma Lynn would say. Grandma Lynn, what would she say? And then then you get to da da da da come in with all the wisdom that they're looking for. All right, let's go to Margaret in San Antonio.

Hi, Margaret.

Hi. Uh thanks for having me. Yes, how can we help?

I have a question. We have one vet and

it's our car. Um it's right at 23,000 that we have left on it. Um I think that we have about 9,000 in a

high yield savings account and then we also have a 1,000 in another savings account. So we have 10,000 total right now. Okay. >> We recently, because we have like a custody thing that kind of just pops off

whenever the ex-spouse feels like dragging us into court for fun. We have to drop between like 7 and 10,000 dollars on a lawyer and we recently had to do that. Mhm. back in November. Okay.

So you're wondering should I use this to pay down the car loan or should we hang on to it? Yeah, I would hang on to it.

If you know this is a likely thing. I don't want you going to debt for lawyers when we saw this coming. So I'd hang on to it for now until the coast is Yeah, and then when there's a while of a season that you guys know that yeah, you're in the clear then take that and pay it off. But if you have extra money coming in Margaret, be throwing that at the car. But if you want to keep this side for custody battle with the lawyers, that probably would be smart until until all that's cleared.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show, and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living it normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

So, Ask Ramsey is our new free AI tool

that's been built. It's been trained on proven Ramsey principles, and today we're going to break down one of the most frequently asked questions that we got last week, George. You ready?

>> All right. The question is, "What are the key considerations and steps for managing Trump accounts for kids?" Love

it. Let's see what Ask Ramsey said about this, cuz this is a question we do get a lot. The Trump savings account is a tax-deferred account funded by a one-time $1,000 government deposit for

eligible children born between 2025 and 2028. Follow the government's official process to set up the account in your child's name. You'll be the custodian until they reach the legal age. Like other custodial accounts, when your child reaches that age, they gain full access and control, and they can use the money for anything, not just education.

So, it becomes like a traditional IRA of sorts at that point. There are no ongoing contribution requirements, but you should check if you're allowed to add more funds or invest the balance for growth. Consider the impact on future college financial aid, as these accounts may be counted as the child's asset.

There we go. So, bottom line here, Trump account can be a great boost for I'll take the free thousand bucks. So, that's I signed up for when I did my tax return. >> I guess, that got it? >> Henry got it. >> Henry got it. Look at that.

Sorry, Mia. Yeah, she didn't she >> Your Yeah, your three-year-old did not two-year-old did not get it.

But, this is just one part of the child's financial foundation. so don't think this is like your ticket. And the key is you got to invest for compound growth to take the lead, but starting at zero years old, I did the math. You leave a thousand bucks just sitting there for 65 years, it could be half a million or more. Yeah, that's crazy.

>> After retirement, so it becomes a bonus retirement account, which is great. But, I love a 529 plan for the tax advantages for education, and even a brokerage account in my name for the kids, because I don't necessarily want an 18-year-old have access to a hundred thousand dollars. I know I wouldn't have made the best decisions at that age, so it's a piece of the puzzle. It's not a savior for anybody.

So, if you want to know the best way to invest based on your situation, check out Ask Ramsey. He can help you break down how much to contribute monthly. Go to ramseysolutions.com or just use the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's go to Salt Lake City, and we have David on the line. Hi, David. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Big fan, and God bless. Thank you for taking my call. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, so my fiance and I are getting married in June, and we're looking at a honeymoon here, and there's an all-inclusive trip to Mexico. It's about six thousand dollars. I make between around a hundred K to a hundred and ten a year. My fiance makes about seventy-four, so all together about one seventy-five to one eighty. Thank you.

Um I got about forty K in savings {slash} an emergency fund, about thirty K in stocks and an IRA. Uh we own both our cars outright, and we're we're looking to buy a home in the new near future, too. Uh so, I just want to know if this six thousand dollar trip makes sense, or if if we're being too frivolous over here, and um so, yeah.

Being too frivolous. Okay, I was going to go the opposite. Uh David, I think you could >> Rachel's like up it to eight thousand.

>> could spend a little bit more if you wanted. Uh I think you're doing great.

No, that's very fiscally responsible.

>> David, that's great. I think that is Yes, you guys are on on a great track.

Nothing feels out of balance to me at all. You're debt-free, you got an emergency fund. You guys are making upwards of $200,000 as a newlywed couple, you're going to look back and say I'm so glad we took the trip.

>> Yes, absolutely. >> Just make sure you're paying cash and not putting it on the credit card.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. All right, well, we'll do. We watch the show, so we've learned a lot from you guys. Oh, awesome. Well, congratulations and yeah, enjoy that all-inclusive trip to Mexico.

>> We got to be good cop. That felt really nice. >> Oh, I love when I tell people just go spend and enjoy. Enjoy your hard work.

>> right? She loves a trip, loves a trip to Mexico. And I love a >> Loves newlywed love. >> for a trip, you know, like a honeymoon or a birthday or an anniversary. Like that's that's fun. It's great.

>> You'll look back fondly on that. >> You will. Yep, y'all enjoy, David. All right, Georgia and I might show up and just be like Party! >> Hi there. All right, let's go to Amanda in Des Moines. Hi, Amanda. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hello, hello. How can we help today?

Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous. Okay, um You are good. You are good. Do not be nervous. >> I am calling.

Um we have been on Baby Step Two and we

have so far paid off about 30,000 in

debt in the last year. We have four left and we have one that's been in consolidation or um in delinquent, so it's in collections.

And they called and gave me a settlement. They gave me a settlement.

The loan itself right now is sitting at 10,500 and they gave me a settlement of 6,000.

And they said I'd have to have that paid off in 30 days.

If I don't have it paid off, they tack on 55% interest on >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a bad deal.

>> So my question is is should I take another loan to pay that off with a

smaller interest rate? No. So we have some time to take to make the payments on >> No, because you can get this deal anytime because it's in collections. So they're going to end up >> They're trying to put some pressure on you. >> Yes, they'll end up selling the debt to another company. You'll be dealing with a different collections company. So, that that is the key though, when you do settle a debt for less. And usually you'll probably get a better deal, honestly, Amanda. Did you even try to negotiate the 6,000?

I Well, that's what I negotiated cuz I

was like >> Okay, cuz you could even gone lower. For some of Yeah, for some of this, yeah, you could have even possibly gone lower.

But, you do have to have it in full. You have to like It's a lump sum. >> Yes, so >> can tell them, "Hey, you and I both know $6,000 in 30 days lump sum is crazy. I I

can't do that." >> I can't I just say I can't do this deal right now. And then, when you guys get to that part of your debt snowball, is that your next debt? Your next smallest?

>> That is, yep. >> Okay, so what I would do then is I would save as much as you can and say I mean, pay the amount payment, don't get behind on it necessarily, but well, I guess you're already kind of work cuz it's in collections, but I would have a I would have an amount and and have $4,138.24, and you call them

and say, "This is the exact amount I have. I can write you a check today." And so, when you have a good when you have a decent amount in there, a couple of thousand or so, I would call them up and start negotiating, but I would not take a deal until you have the amount, the total amount. >> And make sure you get it in writing and have it settled in full. Yes.

No interest, no games. And you know, it sounds like you've been putting away 2,500 toward the debt. So, in 2 months, you'll have five grand, right?

Right, yep. That's great.

>> months from now, you call them and say, "Hey, listen, I got five grand. Take it or leave it." Yeah, so just don't do it don't do that deal today.

Okay. Okay. Yep. That's great, Amanda. Well done.

Way to clean up the mess. >> Awesome. Yes, oh my gosh. Y'all are killing it. All right, let's go to Alex in Los Angeles. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me on the show.

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Uh so, earlier in this month, I beat stage three rectal cancer. Oh my gosh.

Oh. I'm so glad.

Feel like a huge fear that it's going to come back, and it sounds like a high possibility. And if it comes back, it's going to happen within the first five years, more likely than later.

Of course, no one can predict the future.

Um So, I have steps one, three, and four down, and I'm stuck on either going all on for step two, or going to step five.

So, I have a baby that's about to turn one. Mhm. Um, and I want to put into a 529 for him, but I also have a hundred grand in student loan debt.

Um, I don't know if I should aggressively pay off the student loan debt, or aggressively put into a 529 for him. Thinking that if I pass, you or my

husband can't inherit my student loan debt.

Um, yes, that would be correct. But, as

of today, the information that you have is that you are cancer-free.

Right? And I understand that it's a high probability that it's going to come back, cuz that's what they told you.

Yes, um, they say colorectal cancer is the highest cause of death in people under 50. Yes. Yeah, the Yeah, the rates are

actually, I was just talking to my doctor about this yesterday. It's crazy, cuz it Yes, they said it's skyrocketed, um with young people. So, um So, if I were you, Alex, I I probably would start paying down this debt. And

the 529, um, because he's so young, you're going to be able to catch him up college-wise,

um, over the over 18 years, right?

You're going to When you guys are completely debt-free, um, I so I I probably would not worry about that. I think I would have the information that's in front of me and live off of that, which is, right now, that you are debt-free.

Or, I'm sorry, that you are cancer-free, and I would start, yeah, working my way out of this. >> with the problem in front of you, which is a hundred grand in student loans. You still got to make those payments every month. We'll deal with the 18-year-old, you know, problem way later on, and family can be gifting money over time at birthdays and Christmas into this 529 plan.

So, it's not all on you, but let's take care of you you and your household first, and then we'll focus on the kids once we're debt-free. >> Yeah, we're so happy for you, though, Alex. Something to celebrate.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour, and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall, we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

The Ramsey Show is going on tour. So,

this April, we are headed to Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim,

California, Southern California. And you guys have never experienced the Ramsey Show like this. It is the perfect date night because one of you is a spender, probably one of you is a saver. So, come and enjoy because we take your questions live.

We do the show basically live with the studio audience and you guys are the callers. You know, you get to come and ask your question. >> caveat, you don't have to be on camera, on mic. You can just attend and be in the crowd.

>> great point. Yes. >> can so choose and it's more fun if you get up there and have >> involve the audience. >> settle the debate and we have the audience interact.

>> yeah. It's so fun. So >> good time. Uh it's me, George of course, John, Jade, and Ken.

And we're all at different cities. So >> It's a trio in each city.

Which ones are you at? >> I'm on Charlotte and Anaheim.

>> Oh yeah, we're together in two. That's fun, George. Uh so don't wait. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Um there's only a few seats remaining and I think a couple of VIP tickets are still available in each city. They'll probably be sold out here in the next day or two. >> cool venues, little theaters, not arenas, so It's so fun, you guys.

>> out fast. >> Yep. So go and get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events and we will see you in those cities.

All right, let's head to Amy in Fort Worth. Hi Amy, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for having me. Um I appreciate the opportunity.

Yes, absolutely.

>> Yes. So long story short is um I feel

like God brought me this amazing man. I love my marriage. Um I want to stay married forever. Now, financially we are

very both immature.

Um the fault lies on both of us.

So we've never had joint bank accounts.

Um I've asked previously about it and he

didn't want to do it. So I was just kind of like, whatever, I'll just deal with it. But we really come into some problems.

Um one day I came home and there's a vehicle, a new vehicle at our apartment.

I thought it was a joke, but it was not a joke.

And then he's also booked like multiple vacations without discussing it with me.

But on the flip side, I'm no better.

Um So I was staying for my sister's car.

Uh for quite a long time, probably a year to help her out. And um so he never

knew about it. And then also

um so I signed up well, I volunteered to

pay for my mother's like pre-funeral arrangements.

Pre-funeral? Like she hasn't passed?

No, she hasn't passed. Um so she's old

though. She's She's in her 70s and

um she doesn't really have any money. So what had happened was my brother had passed away and she got like a settlement.

And so she paid for the funeral with part of it and then just like blew the rest of it.

Okay. Okay, so what what are you wanting, Amy?

So whenever So he's on vacation right now, my husband, but >> With who?

By himself. That's not a thing.

Amy, I think he's cheating on you.

Mhm.

Guys don't do R&R on their own to get away on a trip.

And I think that's part of why he's been so cagey about combining finances and so

against it.

I think the parts you know are the tip of the iceberg.

You think so?

I think so.

How many of these trips does he do a year?

Uh well, this was the first one, but there's two more planned.

By himself?

Yeah.

Where Where he tell you he's going?

Um they're cruises

to different places.

Does he not invite you?

Amy, does it worry Does that worry you at all? Is that weird to you?

It's a little weird to me.

>> have y'all been married?

Um so we've been married for 5 years.

This is both our second marriage.

>> Okay. Do y'all have kids?

Uh we have four together. So um I have

two, he has two. Oh, from the previous marriages? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um

So the one that's going to come out towards the end of this year I was he didn't want me to go and then

one day I was like, "I'm going to go." And then the next day he was like, "Did you book it?" And I said, "Well, no. I was just kind of messing with you." And he's like, "Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but I don't want you to go." Amy, Amy, this is not a marriage.

>> good. You know that, right?

I mean, I know it. I just don't know how to address it and like regardless of whatever's going on,

I want to be married forever.

I don't know if it's going to be to him.

Cuz he doesn't want to be married to you and he's made that clear by continually

cheating on you behind your back going on these cruises. >> and just not wanting a life with you, not wanting to share any level of information,

making his own decisions, making purchases, and and to and what you said too, you know, you're doing the same. Yeah, I I I don't know.

I think what I would probably do in this situation, Amy, I'm not sure you would do. But if I woke up in your shoes,

there would be an absolute cancel

of all trips going forward that are solo.

Okay. As well as I want to see every

transaction that you have been making financially.

Cuz when you are financially hide money, there's usually another person involved.

There's an addiction involved. Like there are not good things. You don't hide money >> Mhm. because you're really smart and kind person, right? Like no. You're hiding money cuz it's deceitful. You're putting it in the dark.

It's not in the light.

There's no freedom in that.

And so I would um yeah, I would I would be I would I would demand such specific documentation Mhm. on everything. I would get cell phone record I mean I would cuz I I would be convinced that there's somebody else. Um Do you have money of your own? Are you working full-time?

Oh, yeah. I work full-time. Okay.

I mean, I would be at least hiring a a

private investigator just to get some info if you can't get it yourself.

Just to verify cuz we're making some assumptions. I think they're >> 100% Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you just want some verification cuz it seems like you are going to be in denial until you have hard proof. >> don't tell him and you show up with a camera and I think you could probably sell some content online.

But I can't in good faith tell you to stay married to someone who's constantly committing infidelity.

Yeah.

What I'm saying is I don't know what you you you you know, we'll get off this call Amy and you have to decide the life that you want for you. And I want you Amy to have self-respect, to be loved by

somebody, and taken care of by somebody who loves Amy. You are worth more than this. >> So then to live your life looking over your shoulder all the time. And again, people do and people make decisions and that is that's not my free reign. People get mad cuz they think that we keep telling people to get divorced when they get cheated on you know, when we say this stuff we're like I'd leave the marriage.

So you you have to decide for Amy what you um what you want, but I don't think you have a marriage, Amy.

Okay. I don't think you have a godly You do not have a godly husband who is loving and serving you well.

Right. Like if you want to talk scripture, we can talk scripture, but that's not what's happening. And so, I want you to have the self-dignity to be able to say that that yeah, I'm worth more than that to be treated like this.

And I would yeah, I mean I would I would do what you could to find out what's going on. The private investigator thing ain't a bad idea, George, if you just want some answers, but you may not you may not want it. I don't know.

But I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry, Amy. That is so hard.

>> you're going through this.

Yeah, no. Thank you all so much. The best thing you can do is just start to kind of protect yourself and and create your own little island so that you're okay financially if you did leave this marriage you would be able to. >> not combine finances with this man, though. Nope. He's not safe.

>> time when you Yeah, we want couples to work together. >> would anyways. He's made that clear. >> not asking for it. Um

Gosh, Amy, I'm so sorry.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day comes from Psalms, Psalm 1:1.

Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers. Mhm. Um Chuck Norris passed

away. For those of you that didn't know.

>> At 86. 86 years old. And

>> we have a good quote for >> a quote for you here.

From Chuck Norris. A lot of people give up just before they're about to make it.

You know, you never know when that next obstacle is going to be the last one.

Oh. That's apropos.

Oh my goodness. >> great uh memes, too.

>> The well, the Chuck Norris-isms. Let me see if I can get one here from producer James.

>> When Chuck Norris got to heaven, he had to tell the angels at the gates to fear not. Chuck Norris. That's good. That's strong. Does producer James have one for us? I know he was a big fan of the Norris-isms. My thing isn't on.

Yeah, I just heard you >> hear me? Okay, the lights are >> There we go. You're live on the air, James. >> said um that Chuck Norris has actually been dead for 5 years, but death just mustered up the courage to tell him. Oh. Now, that's a perfect one for today. That's a Chuck Norris-ism. >> RIP. Oh, Chuck. Man, well.

It's a sad day. Sad day. The kids out there probably don't even know about Walker, Texas Ranger.

You know what? I bet they don't. I bet that ended when? In the '90s? When did that end? >> were probably the last era >> that was hip to it. >> Oh my gosh.

All right, let's head to uh San Francisco and we have Ryan on the line.

Hi, Ryan.

Hey, thanks for having me, guys. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help you?

Hey, so my wife and I own five rental properties and they're doing great. We have absolutely no problems. They're all profitable. Um the original plan was that we keep buying and hopefully we have 10, 20, 30 and then live off of those and retire soon. Um recently I've been kind of

looking into more investing and switching things up. And so when I was kind of crunch the numbers, I was trying to figure out if I should sell two of those and put that money, which would be almost about a million dollars, into like the S&P 500 and get that return of

you know, that 10% and if it makes sense to do that or not. Or if we should just stick to our game plan of just gung-ho buying houses and keep going. Yeah, do you guys um have any money invested in retirement or is it everything in rental properties? No, we do. I mean, we have our 401ks that are probably about 120,000 combined so far. We're She's 30, I'm 34. Okay. Um I also have,

you know, 30,000 in S&P 500 now and some

in crypto and stuff like that and probably like 20 grand cash on hand and stuff like that. So we're we kind of have a couple different spaces. >> Uh-huh. Are the homes paid for, Ryan?

No, well, one of them is paid for. So we we got very blessed last year we inherited a house.

Um that one's worth about $700,000.

Okay. And it's completely paid off and we make about It's 2950 a month that we make off of that house alone. Okay, how much do you owe on the other properties, the other four? >> The other Um, another one is paid off. Oh, good.

>> them is 279, another is like 326.

Mhm. Um, and the one that's at 279, it's a duplex, so counting that one as two.

Okay. Um, we I was thinking about selling the one that's has the 279 cuz

it's worth about 600, so >> With Yeah, so with those two would be close to a million.

Um, that that one we get about $1,600 profit. Um And so if you What's your your least favorite?

Uh, the least favorite is actually the one that I didn't mention.

Um that one we probably have about $100,000 in equity.

Um and that one only makes us about 5, 600

dollars a month. Okay. Um, after the >> I'm just thinking can we sell one or two and pay off the others? Now we have a completely paid for real estate portfolio, we're derisking any extra money, now we can invest into the market.

Mhm. Cuz you guys have another 30 years to invest into the market and build wealth, so I'm less concerned about that. I just think having less risk now and more cash flow and simplifying your life would would feel real good.

Yeah, I mean, my wife is her big thing is she loves having the extra cash flow.

Um, so that's why she doesn't want me to invest and then when I told her like, "Hey, you know, if we did get that 10% it would actually be more than what we would get off of the cash flow yearly." Yeah. But then her her caveat to that is, "Well, you're the cheapest person I know and you're not going to want to actually pull out any of that money and >> using the money for that's off these rentals? What do y'all do What What's the cash flow going to?

So, most of it we're saving to We have

another like rental account that we're saving just to basically get ready for another property. Yeah. Um

Okay, that's great. >> year was like our break where cuz I've been so gung ho for the last few years, this year was our break to kind of okay, I understand that you're upset that I'm doing so much, so let's slow down and let's live our life this year. So this year's been more about vacations and family time and doing stuff with our kids and doing everything. >> year on your jobs?

Uh with my overtime I make about 250, she makes about 40, so right around 300 and

then plus what we make off the rentals.

That's good. So we're doing very good. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I can't complain in that kind of thing. Yeah, I can't complain. Yeah, I would be in George's camp, which majority of investment real estate um majority people yeah, they're leveraged. They take out loans, they put it some down, you know, they that's the cycle they live in, but at Ramsey we always talk about two things with investment real estate.

Number one is that it needs to be paid off. So when you get to that point, so I would do what George said. I would find and kind of you guys can do the math and just say, "Hey, we can sell these two, that could pay off everything else with some extra that we can invest in the market, you know, whatever that looks like." And then number two, just when it comes to investments, we do talk about diversification.

And that can be within the stock market that you're diversifying within mutual funds and all that, but even at a bigger scale, yeah, the diversification of what types of investments. And so real estate is one of those. So having some in real estate and then having some in the stock market, which I know you already do, but I do like the plan of you guys being stable with the real with the rentals and then putting anything extra and maybe take a season where you are investing in the market because I mean, depending on how quickly these houses, you know, appreciate and everything, I mean, the market itself had did very well the last couple of years and you'd actually probably make more off of being in the market than real estate, but >> With less headache.

That That's truly the only passive income is you just let your investments ride and it spits off money versus real estate, which as you know, is not super passive.

>> people living there it's a headache. Is your primary home paid off, Ryan?

No, it's not. >> It's not, okay. How much do you guys have left on that?

Uh that one's our highest. That one's close to six six twenty. What's the payment every month? Uh forty one hundred.

Man, it'd be nice to have that thing paid off. De-risk the place you sleep first.

Yeah, I mean I would definitely love to and it it definitely would help, especially because it's one of the highest payments and that that duplex pretty much covers that. Uh For now until there's a vacancy or someone doesn't pay or >> Yeah, so with the baby steps, Ryan, I would go back and I would go I would I would walk the baby steps. I'd I'd be funding 15% of you guys of your income into retirement. So back into the 401ks, the Roth IRAs.

And then I would >> grand. Yep. And then you guys have enough in the rentals again that I really do think you could sell one or two and have everything paid off in that and I would be okay with you guys keeping those and then start knocking off your primary home. And you guys may get so aggressive that you look up and you're like, "Hey, maybe we only we only have one rental and we sell everything else and pay off the primary home." I mean, the $700,000 rental if you you know, I know it was gifted to you all, but you know, depending on taxes and everything, but if it was sold and it paid off your primary home.

I don't know.

Okay. So that's >> the going to take the longest, unfortunately. Yeah, I will. >> get me wrong, I want everything to be done as fast as possible >> Well, the goal here is just to have no debt whatsoever. >> is sitting in the account that you're going to buy another rental with? How much is in there?

Uh right now it's it's low. It's only like twenty twenty-six. So it's not not

enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and I'm out in California, so realistically we have to put about like 60 to 100k down

depending on the the place that we're looking at. >> Yeah. So, yeah, I would stop all of that. I would not buy any more houses. I would work to pay off my primary home.

>> Do you risk the portfolio and then as you buy more, do it in cash. You can do that quickly when all these are cash flowing with no debt on them with your amazing income. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Uh well, George, great show. You, too.

Uh thanks to all the callers for calling in. Thanks for all the guys in the booth and the great audience that we had today here in Franklin, Tennessee outside our studio. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 289. “Write the Check Today and Be Done With This Forever” | November 5, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:00:00 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Dr. I'm John Deloney and we're taking your [music] calls at8825-5225.

We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money.

Rob is in Kansas City. What's going on, Rob? How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hi, George. How you doing this afternoon? >> Great. What's going on with you?

>> I'm doing all right. Uh longtime listener and I uh figured it'd be time to give you guys a call. Um, I'm in an interesting situation here and I'm kind of pushing back. So, couple of my best friends are very good with financials. I would say I trust them. And my situation

here, and I'm looking for your advice, is that I owe $8,000 on a credit card.

And that stems from a gambling issue that I had years ago that is no longer a problem. I balance transferred that money to a 0% interest card for 15 months. I have $20,000 in cash and

savings. Um, I have a truck payment. I

drive a F-150 Raptor used. I owe $28,000

on the truck. I make roughly $100,000 a

year and I'm 26 years old. So, the

question here and what my friends are advising me to do, George, is for me to take the $20,000 that I have in cash and

put all $20,000 towards my truck and my

credit card debt. And the push back that I gave to them, George, is that I don't want to completely wipe out my cash that

I have on hand in case of an emergency.

And baby step number one is to save $1,000. So, just wanting to see what your thoughts are on that. Thank you, George. >> Wonderfully put. Okay. And so, you don't agree with your friends and in turn you don't agree with us, which is fine. You know, you can hang on to the debt as long as you want and hang on to the emergency fund as long as you want. What we have found is that people generally get comfortable with their debt when they have a pile of money in savings.

And so it's actually psychologically going to take you longer to pay off the debt because you don't feel the fire that is actually happening in your backyard right now. And so I think if you put 19 of that 20 toward the debt, that would knock out your credit cards completely, giving you a lot of momentum and knock out a significant portion of your car loan.

>> Correct. Yeah. The issue that I have, George, is is you know, I I I'm become

cheap because of the issue that I had years ago with gambling. I lost pretty much everything, but I've rebuilt what I had lost. And it felt good to save that money back. And obviously, I know I have

20,000 minus 8K in credit card, so I

have 12. And then you take I have basically have a negative net worth with my car payment and my car loan. So, it's

just me being kind of impatient of like, oh my gosh, I have to start over again.

>> Yeah. It feels like you're going back to rock bottom. You know, there's a legitimate scarcity mindset there. Well, Rob, I want to throw something at you.

This is John sitting next to George.

>> I'm his sidekick. He doesn't let me talk very much, but occasionally he does.

>> I have a mute button for John at any point. >> Um, can I throw something else out there?

And I'm throwing spaghetti at a wall and you can say, "Nope, you're an idiot.

That's not real." Okay, >> go ahead.

>> Are you completely through with your gambling past?

>> Yes. >> Okay, let me rephrase that. You're done gambling. You've you've done what you need to do. You've healed from that.

>> Are you okay with you? Are you okay with that guy who gambled and created a big hole for himself?

>> Yes. Because it was a decision that I made. It was right. It was wrong. It was indifferent. I made the decision. I'm an adult. I have to live with it. And uh I'm a man of faith and I just leaned on my faith with God and uh you know honor him, praised him and you know look for him as pleasing him and all decisions that I make. >> Okay. So I want to take that I'm going to take you at your word and I want to

tell you what it looks like from the outside that you still haven't fully

completed the full circle of healing when it comes to that gambling debt because you're still hanging on to it.

Right? >> And I don't know that you're going to have that full exhale.

And what I say what I what I mean by that is you've you've hacked your way to safety. meaning you've done some amazing work to get yourself a bunch of cash and instead of leaning on gambling, instead of leaning on excitement, instead of leaning on what's the next like cool thing, now you're leaning on something else, which is cash

>> as this warm blanket to keep you keep

you safe.

>> And >> and that's what I feel daily. I look at my when I look at my bank account, I see 20 grand. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's great." Like I remember when I didn't have anything. >> But you still haven't finished the gambling debt yet,

>> right? >> I just need to just get to the point of being comfortable with saying, "All right, I'm going to spend $8." >> No, that's not how comfort works.

>> Comfort is through the other side of discomfort.

>> And you have this big uncomfortable path ahead of you and you're you're not walking through it because you've walked through a lot of discomfort to get here.

and you want to call that the end. It's like you're you're running a marathon and you [snorts] found mile 15, 15 to 17, which is when everyone's no matter how good a shape you are, that's when people are like, "Dude, this is stupid. I quit." And you you you're saying to yourself, "You know what? I've ran 15 miles. That's enough." And what I want to tell you is the true exhale you're looking for is on the other side of finally being done with all of the gambling stuff.

And it's it's going to be uncomfortable to write $8,000 check. Send it. Send it today >> and be forever done with both the action

of gambling and the consequences of that because the consequences are still floating out there and you've created a story that makes it kind of okay, which is it's at 0%. But it's still in your backpack. Set it down, man.

>> Can I ask you another I I actually just thought of something too that I wanted to ask that I forgot to mention to you guys. Of >> course. One thing that I think I have and my father's even mentioned it's it's kind of like an OCD thing here with I because

of the gambling issue I became

fixated on saving money right so I think

I found myself trying to save too much money and I know people have told me guys that oh well you can't save your way to wealth you know investing is the way you know to build wealth and and I have a savings instead plan with my company and At 26 years old, I've got uh

about $50,000 between my estop, my 401k,

and my IRA. You know, my boss is like, "That's great. That's amazing." You know, how many 26 year olds don't have that, you know, and and I just I want

because I want to get married, you know, I'm going to propose to my my uh future fiance, you know, around Christmas time, and I want to buy a house. And I'm like, gosh, like >> it sounds like honestly it sounds like you traded one addiction for another.

I think so too. I I do. I mean, >> and so listen, the only path you cannot psycho psychoanalyze your way through this. The only path to the confidence

you're seeking and confidence here is trusting yourself is through it, not around it.

>> Right? And I know that, you know, I'm a saver. I know I live within my means.

>> Here's the thing. Just pay it off. Pay it off. And George, what about the truck? >> And you got to attack that truck, man. I mean, you you can afford to keep it, but if you're going to hang on to the payments and carry this into your marriage, this thing's got to go. >> That's a different kind of gambling that you're always going to have this income and that debt's always going to be okay.

>> And I don't think you're ever going to get to a point where you feel comfortable enough to then throw it at the debt. [music] We're going to be talking years from now and you're still going to be carrying this. So, I'd pay it off. You're going to have 17K left.

Attack that [music] and knock it out before you get married to this gal.

That's what we would do, man.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Chase is in New York. What's going on, Chase? How can we help today?

>> Hey, guys. How you doing? >> Great. How are you?

>> I'm doing good. So, um, my question is I have some money saved up. Um, I've been considering putting a big lump sum towards some loans that I have. So, I'm just looking for some advice on what the best route is here to do that. Um, taking into account like how much money I could save in terms of the different interest rates on each each loan.

>> Well, do you want to do math or you want to get out of debt? Which one's more important to you?

>> Yeah. So, it's a combination of both. I mean, these loans aren't there's really no emotional aspect to them for me because

I have them set up in um some different bank accounts where it's direct deposit straight from my paycheck. So, I really don't feel it at all. And then my car loan is just the same exact thing. So, I'm not actually making those monthly payments. So, I really I don't >> You're not making the monthly payments.

I'm so confused.

>> No, it's automatic. It's all automatic in my >> Okay. So, you are making >> monthly payments, homie. Yeah, >> you've just automated it emotionally cuz everything's automated and you go whatever. It's money out of my account. It's not there anymore. Who cares? I'm not that concerned about the debt. You're you're Are you trying to make money by keeping the cash in the bank instead of paying off the debt? Is that your question?

>> No, I just don't know. I want to So, my car loan is $15,000 left on it. Okay.

>> And my student loan has $71,000 left on

it. Those are the two the two big ones.

I I have a mortgage as well that I just just started, which is 60 $620,000

left on it. And that's obviously that's my highest interest rate and my biggest loan, but really I could I feel like I

put a decent dent in >> How much money do you have that you could allocate toward the debts?

>> Um, so right now in my savings, I have

$60,000. Um, part of it, the reason this

hole came up, I got a raise at one of my jobs and I didn't update the percentage of direct deposit that was going into my account that was just covering my student loan. Um, I knew that, but it was just additional savings. Um, so it's now $17,000 in that account that's just

sitting there. So I figured, does it make sense to put that towards my student loan to eliminate a lot of the

interest and shorten the length of this?

you you have way over complicated your whole financial life. You've got like 17 accounts sitting there. You've got direct deposits coming every which way.

I would simplify it all and take all cash you have minus a,000 bucks and just knock out your debt. Could you just about knock out all of your debt if you did that today?

>> Um >> you have 60 plus the 17.

>> Yeah, 60 plus the 17. So it's about

$73,000 in my savings. So, you could knock out the car loan today, free up that payment, knock out most of the student loan, and probably be debtree by Christmas.

>> Yeah. I guess my question was like I'm kind of towards it's $80 a month in interest right now for the car loan. The

student loan is about 220 per month in interest. So, I just wasn't sure if it makes more sense going really just keep

paying the car loan and wipe out that whole student loan first and then that's all my savings. Like, is it is it smart to eliminate? >> It's not the interest savings is not going to matter with the speed that you're going to attack this if you do it our way. Now, if you're going to hang on to the debt forever and keep playing games, then I think you should start looking at the math and the interest.

But if you do it our way, you're debtree by Christmas. We're talking the difference in pennies.

>> We're talking two months, you're completely debtree. >> Or or think about it this way. You've you've made it easier for yourself by thinking about the interest that you're paying on the loan on top of the principal.

How much is the interest rate on your student loan?

>> My student loan is that's the lowest one. That's 3.74%.

>> Okay. So, if you have your money in a high yield savings account, that's a wash right now.

>> Yeah. >> Right. What are you paying on the on the interest of your car note?

>> 5.79%.

>> Okay. So, you're paying 5.7, right? 5.8.

So, let's say 6%. You're paying 6% for the privilege of holding on to that money.

>> Mhm. >> That's bad math any way you use it.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. I'm I'm also not really sure with

like I don't know how much money should I have in my savings. >> Hold Let's flip it around. Let's flip it around. >> Yeah.

>> Pay off everything by Christmas.

>> Okay. If you hate it,

if you hate not having any payments,

then go take out a $70,000 heliloc against your house and you can have one back.

That'd be awesome.

There's just like there's a there's a way to do this.

>> Yeah. >> George and I have never met a person and Dave Ramsey before us have never met somebody who paid off everything and they're like, "Man, I wish I hadn't have done that." >> Yeah. >> How much do you make? >> I mean, that's the goal for sure. >> What's your income >> for that?

>> Um, roughly per month after taxes 11,000. >> Okay. So, >> let's play this out. You're debtree by Christmas and you have a,000 bucks in savings and you're going, "Oh gosh, I got to rebuild." Okay. Well, the next paycheck, how much could you throw into that savings account now that you don't have any debt?

>> Yeah, that's a good >> 11 grand. >> Seven grand. >> Eight grand. >> Yeah. My mortgage my mortgage is 5,500 a month. We have an apartment in the house which we get 1,700 in rent from.

>> Who's we?

>> Me and my wife. Oh, >> okay. What does she make?

>> She makes 120,000 a year >> on top of your 11 that you're taking home. >> Yes. >> Okay. So you could rebuild this emergency fund in like two months.

>> You're rich, brother. Pay off your debts, man.

>> Okay.

>> You are doing the big lump sum to >> Yeah. Just pay it off today.

>> You're like a like a rat in the maze and we're going, "Dude, you don't need need to be a part of this lab experiment. You can just opt out. You're overthinking at every corner and you're too successful.

You make too much money to even be doing this math." >> Yeah. What does your wife think about all this? What's her involvement?

>> Um, she's not I'm a little bit more

entrepreneurial-minded and doing the finance stuff for us.

>> Okay. She's >> You're not good at it. >> Yeah. So, I'm >> What would she say if she took control of the money today and saw everything going on?

Would she go, "What are we doing over here? You got nine accounts. You're trying to direct. Can we just pay this off and be done?" >> Is that how she is?

Or would she say, "No, I think we should keep it very complicated and overwhelming." [laughter] >> No, she would just she would just do the monthly the monthly payment.

experts, but like talking to my friends and things like that. Like everyone just like everyone in my life is just making their monthly payments. >> I know. And their life is awful. Look around, dude. >> Look around. >> And they complain and they vent about how awful everything is, how they can't afford everything while they carry their $600 car payment that they could pay off today.

Yeah. >> So, I don't know. I mean, you can keep playing the game, but it just feels like you're choosing I just need to call out you're choosing to play the middle class game by making it complicated, holding on to the loans, thinking you're thinking a lot of action is getting you anywhere.

>> So, you're in a truck right now and it's stuck and you just keep hitting the gas and you're like, "Yeah, look how look how fast this thing is like at the RPMs.

Look how hard it's revving." But me and George are sitting in the field next to you. We were like, "You're not going anywhere." And every check like a little goes here and it goes over there and a direct deposit's here and you can't. Lloyd Christmas once said, "You can't triple stamp a double stamp." That's from Dumb and Dumber. You should go watch that movie for Christmas.

But listen, just pay it off. Pay it off. Get out of the game. Your friends are broke, dude.

Your friends are broke. So the question is, are you wanting to try to make a spread off of this or are you wanting to build wealth?

>> Mhm. So, if you want to build wealth, here's the simplest way to build wealth.

Here it is. You ready for it? Live on less than you make. Invest the difference.

That's it. You make you make 16 grand, live off five, invest the 11. You're going to be unbelievably wealthy no matter what because your savings rate will trump anything else going on in your life. And the other piece is avoid debt.

Avoiding other avoid owing other people money so that your income stays with you and instead of paying interest, you're going to be earning it in no time. and you're not going to be doing any more interest rate math. >> And you and your wife make was about a quarter million dollars together. You'll make a lot of money.

Think of it this way.

house outright. You can owe nobody anything. And you can have an emergency fund. Nobody could ever take your home.

No one will ever knock on your door.

That's the definition of wealth moving forward. >> You get a health scare, a job loss, wife wants to stay home, you yawn, and then you do it. >> Yeah. That's financial peace, man.

That's what we're after. And we hope that you start chasing that dream, too.

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[music]

Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone. Maybe you've made the changes, you had a few wins, but something still feels off. Well, it's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional.

And that emotional fight can quietly sabotage your progress. And that's exactly why our friend Jade Warshaw wrote her new book, What No One Tells You About Money. That's what it's all about. It's the first Ramsey book that takes an honest, in-depth look at the emotional side of money and gives you practical tools to finally make progress for good. And we are stoked, >> dude. I'm holding it right here. This is

off the hook. It's awesome. But no one tells you about money by Jade Warshaw.

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If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. All right, Amanda is out in Salt Lake City. What's going on, Amanda?

>> Hi. My husband and I have no debt. Uh

our house has been paid off for a few years. Um I have a 401k. He has a pension. And we had a friend die a

couple years ago at about our age. Um

and we got nervous. So we got some life insurance through a friend. It's a fixed index universal life insurance policy.

And I'm beginning to think it's not that good of a deal.

>> Good job. Yes. >> Glad you joined the rest of us. I'm so sorry. I've been listening to you guys and I'm like, uhoh. >> Are you still friends with this person?

>> My >> Well, it's my sister-in-law's dad. So, yes.

>> My sister-in-law's dad. That's like Space Balls. It's like my best friend's brother's roommate. [laughter] >> Good job. >> So, you you want to surrender the policy? And so, >> so we're putting like $1,000 a month into it. I have looking at this paperwork as I've been listening to you guys, I have no idea how much is in it.

I don't know. >> That's how they like it. They like to make these things so complex that the average person like you and me, Amanda, we we could not fathom how it works. And so we leave it to the really smart people in the index universal life world to scam us out of $1,000 a do you know how much wealth you could build just putting $1,000 a month into the stock market in an index fund instead of an insurance? >> Venmo me $1,000 a month and I'll send you a nice note every day.

>> And sadly, you would make more doing that. It would probably >> because the commissions and fees that he is making off of you right now would blow your mind.

>> Okay. >> Most of the money that you're putting in is going towards commissions and fees. A small percentage is going to the >> Is his house bigger than yours?

>> Oh, yes.

>> Yes. Tada. So, you have a polite conversation and you say, "Hey, I'd like to uh get out of this policy and surrender it ASAP." And he's going to try to talk you out of it. He's going to tell you how bad of an idea it is and how much money you're going to lose by doing this and you firmly just say, "Yep, I understand.

I understand. I want it. >> We're going to pay the stupid tax." >> Exactly. Because the amount of time it takes for they they'll tell you.

They'll say, "Well, you got to really be committed to this.

Which [laughter] just tells you how stupid of an idea it is. And so, I would get out of it ASAP. In fact, there's been a huge news story. Uh, one of the biggest NASCAR drivers out there, I think it's Kyle Bush. I hope I given that name right. They just lost $8.5 million doing this at scale. The exact thing you're doing.

>> Okay. >> So, if that gives you any >> So, what do I do with the money that's in there? Like, how do can I move it?

>> I mean, I don't know how much you'll have at the end of the day. There may not be much. That's the sad news.

>> Oh my. >> Like, you can check how much cash value is in there. I don't think it's going to you're going to be very disappointed with the amount of money you're going to get from this.

>> Okay. And so the longer this goes, the longer this goes.

>> Okay. >> Do you guys have term life insurance in place? >> No. >> Okay. I would do that today before you surrender this policy.

>> You need term life insurance. Not whole life, not universal life, not index universal life, none of these. Just term life, a level term life policy. It will be a fraction of the cost. Instead of a,000 bucks, it's probably going to be like $65 a month. and it's going to do the only thing that life insurance was intended to do, which is replace your income if something were to happen to you.

>> Okay? >> So, you can jump on xander.com and uh

check them out. That's who I have my policy through. >> Me, too. Or you can call them. >> I've got mine through there, too. >> And it's super affordable. And then the money that you save, that difference in the $1,000 you are paying, that $900 something dollars, you can then invest that money and you can pop that into our investment calculator and see how much wealth you could build for yourself instead of making an insurance salesman wealthy.

>> And both of us really aren't savvy in that. Like how do you invest? I don't even know how to invest money.

>> I mean, investing in your 401k is light years better. Yeah. Just we'll we'll teach you. There's a great guide that we have on our website for free. Just jump on ramiesolutions.com/guide and we have a free investing guide that will walk you through it in plain English. No complex insurance jargon. In fact, we won't mention insurance in the investing guide because they should never be mixed. Anyone telling you they should be mixed is trying to make money off of you as you've already learned the hard way.

>> Yes. >> I'm rooting for you, Amanda. So, just know that you're not alone. And I hope someone else out there holding one of these policies or who's about to get talked into one, you might have just saved them. So, please know that you've done us all >> real quick. Amanda, are you still there?

>> Yeah. >> I want to circle back to one thing you said real quick. You said you're out of debt and you've paid off your house.

>> Uh-huh. >> Okay. >> Let nobody ever again tell you, convince

you, and I'm talking to the people that you, the person you look at in the mirror and your husband looks at in the mirror. Y'all are light years ahead of

the vast majority of Americans when it comes to handling your money.

Thank you. My brother or my brother, my husband always tells us that we're broke and I'm like, I don't think we're broke, buddy. >> Listen, if y'all one of y'all loses a job, nobody's coming to take your house away, >> right? >> If both of y'all lost your job, y'all would have to mow lawn so y'all could come up on an annual basis with the taxes and insurance.

>> Mhm. >> This is what real wealth looks like. Not having a fancy policy that somebody else's manages for you cuz you're quote unquote too dumb, >> right? How old are you, Amanda?

>> We're 43. >> Okay. Do you guys have some wealth already built? Like, what's your current nest egg look like across retirement accounts? >> Uh, so I have about 450,000 in my 401k. I

haven't worked for about 5 years. Um, I >> Are you apologizing for having half a million dollars?

>> I should have excuses, but >> Okay. What about your husband? What's he have in retirement? >> He has a pension. I don't know how that works. I don't even know what >> we'll take the pension out of it. Let's just put this in your ball in your world here. You have 450 grand. You're 43 years old and you pop that thousand bucks into an investment account, you're likely going to have, are you ready for this?

$5 million at 65. If you just do that,

just a,000 bucks a month, the amount you were paying into that insurance policy, >> put it into your 401 or into a mutual fund >> thing, right? >> Yeah. Even a Roth IRA. Now, you'd run out of money pretty quick because that you'd go over the limit.

But you can invest outside of retirement. If you run out of you max out all of your retirement options, you can invest outside of retirement just into an index fund in a brokerage account and that'll still get you that number. >> Somehow you and your husband would have to figure out how to exist with your paid off house and $5 million plus his pension. However, are y'all going to make it?

>> Four weddings. That might make you broke. Yeah, I take it. I take it We have four girls. So I He said I said we're going to pay for their college. He said I'm not worried about college. I'm worried about weddings. >> That's okay. So he's right. He's right.

Y'all are poor. But you'll get there.

You'll get there. [laughter] >> They don't do full ride scholarships for weddings. Although I I feel like they should. >> You know what though? You can do the cash out option.

>> When when your daughter comes home and says, "Hey, uh, I'm engaged." is you can sit down and say, "Okay, we'll write you a check for $20,000

>> and we will marry you in our local church just right down the street." >> Right. There you go. >> I'd rather take that. >> Or you can just put it on a house and go alone. >> That's right. We will pay your down payment on for your house and we'll meet you and throw rice at you outside.

>> Young couples will be like, "Oh my gosh, housing is so unaffordable." And then spend $120,000 [laughter] on a wedding.

Like, it's worth it. My special day.

Goodness gracious. We've got it twisted.

But hey, we're rooting for you, Amanda.

It's a stupid tax. You're going to be fine. The resentment that'll sting for a little while, though.

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JP is in [music] New Jersey up next. JP, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey folks, hope you guys are doing well.

We are call. >> What's going on with you?

>> Um, all right. So, my spouse and I have been married for three years. Um, we started FPU when we got married and now we're at Baby Step 4, which is awesome.

We put 15% down into our into our

retirement and are thinking of buying a home. We've been renting this whole time. Uh, famously in New Jersey, pretty high cost of living. So, we're trying to decide if it makes more sense to like use what we saved and buy or keep

renting and start investing what we've saved. Now, the caveat is we're planning to stay in the area for another 5 to 7 years.

>> Okay, so you're already investing 15%.

Why are you wanting to invest more?

>> Well, we have all this that we have saved and we just started like doing baby steps and wow, we could be kind of gaining more if we invest. Um, so we were like that to invest. Do we use that as a down payment? Like what makes >> more sense? >> How much money do you have? Outside of our emergency fund, we have about 140,000. >> Woo. That's a heck of a down payment.

What kind of house are you looking at? What's the budget?

>> The budget's around like 600,000 max.

>> Okay. So, what's your your target here?

Are you trying to keep it within the Ramsey parameters to keep it to 25% of your after tax income?

>> Yeah, we're trying to like follow that as well. Um, and you know, we were

thinking if we do do that and we leave in 5 to seven years, like is the equity

does that match like what we could win if we invest? You know, we're trying to figure out. >> Well, you tell me. Tell me exactly what the stock market is going to do for the next 5 to seven years and I'll tell you if it's a good plan.

>> Uh, no idea. >> It's another presidential election, too, by the way. >> Perfect. So, here's what I would I what I wouldn't do is try to time the market and decide is this money going to go towards investments or house. I think both are good. You're already investing 15%. I would rather see you guys get your foot in the door of the housing market cuz I can tell you this, houses are going to be more expensive 7 years from now. And it's a moving goalpost.

So, I would rather see you guys get into a home as soon as you're financially ready versus hanging on to the money or investing the money because you're going to be multi-millionaires at this rate.

How old are you, too?

>> We're in our mid-30s. We're 34. 33.

>> And how much money do you guys make?

>> We make about two I guess before taxes

is about 280. >> Okay. A third grader doing this math could tell you you're going to be a multi-millionaire investing 15% of hundreds of thousands of dollars with compound growth for the next 30 years.

>> That's awesome. >> So, in that case, I'm going, okay, well, let's really hunker down and get this house knocked out, which means we need to find a down payment goal so that we can get into this house. So, is that $200,000, $175,000, 250,000? What is

that number for you guys?

>> So, what we're looking about, it's about like 155.

>> And you're at 140 right now.

>> Yeah. >> So, $15,000 is what's stopping you from

buying a home?

>> Pretty much. >> And you'll make that in the next month or two?

>> Yeah, exactly. >> It sounds like you should start home shopping by Christmas.

>> All righty. We have been looking and then we you know we kind of pause and we're like we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. So this is it. >> You were doing exactly the right thing. Now in the baby steps this would be baby step 3B or you can do it in four which is you invest anywhere from zero to 15%

while saving up a down payment. So if you guys want to keep 15% and throw anything else at the down payment savings you'll get there in no time. But I would not >> prioritize investing over buying a house when you're already doing baby step four. You guys are doing great. Gotcha.

And for whatever it's worth, I pause retirement to save up for my down payment.

>> I see. >> The pause that you do for three months is not going to make that big of a dent long term, >> right? >> So, I would Do you have a good real estate agent?

>> We do. We do. >> Okay, good. I would start shopping now because it could take a little while to start finding the right one. And in the meantime, you guys keep stacking cash.

Keep stacking cash. And when the right one comes along, you guys are going to be financially ready.

>> Amazing. All right, we'll do.

>> Way to go. >> Congratulations, dude. >> I needed a win today, JP, and you gave me that. Thank you for being an inspiration. All right, Bill is in Sacramento up next. What's going on, Bill? How can we help?

>> Well, I'm looking for some godly advice, and you guys are the key.

>> John is the holiest man. >> I'll do the godly part. George will do the advice part.

[laughter] >> Now, uh, I've got a situation. I got a couple kids. they're in private school and u my job is cut back way back on their uh overtime and stuff that I was using to keep them in private school. So my wife works, I work and uh we're just

getting barely by and all it takes is an appliance breaking down or our car that needs to be replaced and we're going to and go in debt. Right now we don't have any debt. Uh but we've got about 600,000

plus equity in our home. So we were

wrangling or tossing around the idea

that what we could do is we get just one, [clears throat] you know, just a single mortgage. We were thinking about maybe taking out a loan against it, you know, whatever percentage they charge and taking that money and it would pay for the next four years of school and pay for a car. Yep. >> And and then just pay it off when we sell the house. >> Please don't do that.

>> Okay. >> Please don't do that.

Is this private school is part of the reason you sent them to a private school? Is it a faith-based education for them? Because that's something you value.

>> Oh, yeah. It's it's a Christian organization and it's top-notch.

>> Okay, great. That's amazing. I'm going to tell you something that's hard to hear. Okay.

>> Sure. >> It's faith-based and it's top-notch. It can be world class and in the current

situation where you find yourself, you can't afford it.

>> And this is dad to dad, okay? I'm just telling you like dad to dad. That's a hard thing for me to say to another dad who's trying to do the best he can to raise great kids.

>> But I will tell you in my house and in George's house and our neighbor's house, the spiritual life of our kids is chiefly our responsibility.

>> Absolutely. And if you can, if you have found yourself in a season where you can afford to also put them in a different environment where you know their teachers are all believing the same faith that you value and all that, that's amazing.

But the other side of this is the biblical principle that the borrower is slave to the lender.

And if you take out a heliloc against your house, even though you have built-in equity, you are creating tension inside your house that your kids will absorb from the inside out.

>> Okay? I would much rather if like just again dad to dad. I would much rather you guys have a hard conversation with your kids, which by the way would be one of the greatest lessons you could ever teach them, which is dad had his hours cut and our finances have changed. And

if they saw their dad weep, if they saw their dad be sad, that would be a blessing to them because they would see dad have real emotions and then go do the next right thing,

which is for this season or at the end of this year or at the end of this semester. This is as far as we can go.

And if my hours peck back up, this is priority number one. I know it's going to impact your friendships. It's going to impact your school stuff. You It's going to be hard, but my job is to keep all of us safe.

Those are hard hard conversations, man.

But I would I would not be a good dad, a fellow dad if I told you, yeah, the right thing to do is to borrow against your home for this for your for this

season right now.

>> Okay? >> And if things are tight now, that heliloc is just going to make it even tighter. You're adding an extra payment in your life and you're putting your house on the block because that puts your home at risk as well. And so to John's point, I think this is going to add more stress than it's going to add peace of mind that you're you're doing the right thing for your kids. I think you've probably raised some great kids. Am I Am I right?

Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah. Do you think a temporary change in school would affect their character and their values and the principles you've instilled in them? Well, >> if it did, I'd, you know, kick them out behind the woodshed.

>> There [laughter] we go. There we go. We have a solution. But I would not do this, Bill.

I don't I don't think using your home as a piggy bank is going to be a blessing in your life. And we just talked to too many people that are your age going, I wish I never did this. I wish I didn't take out the HELOC. I'm unable to retire now and unable to make these payments.

And that's just going to add stress into your home. >> Or the moment you take out that helock, you're going to get called in and they're going to say, "Hey, you know, we've been cutting hours, man, and unfortunately we're going to have to lay off some positions." And then you're in a big big time mess that you're not in right now.

I always want homes to [music] be places of warmth and safety and peace and adding adding debt to your house plus putting your house on the block, man.

That's a way to add some major stress.

Take that off the table and find any other way. And it's not going to be fun, but it's going to be for a season.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm [music] George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at88255225.

Tyler is in Fort Worth, Texas. Salt of the earth folks over there. What's going on, Tyler?

>> Oh, not a lot, guys. How are you?

>> Good. John is upset with me. I don't like my comment about Fort Worth is the 817. It's a great town. And

>> George doesn't know how to talk to Texas. >> I said salt of the earth. That's a compliment. >> I'll teach John what that means after.

What's going on today?

>> So, my wife and I got married a little over a year ago. Um, so that brought all

of our debt together, obviously. Uh, we're about $150,000 in debt. um that

includes car payments and a camper payment and student loans. And I also

filed chapter 13 bankruptcy six years ago and I'm at the light of the end of the tunnel where it is paid off at uh in

July of next year. >> Awesome. Good for you, man.

>> Yeah. Um so >> what got you back into the mess? is h

well, you know, chapter 13 keeps you in uh keeps you eating beans and rice just like you guys say it should. Um but what put me back into it? My wife had $40,000 worth of student loan debt before we got together. Um vehicle payment, I had to

have a vehicle to get back and forth to work. I currently don't really need that now. Just need to um just have I have a

work vehicle that I can drive back and forth to work. She needs a vehicle to drive back and forth to work. And her payment or her her Jeep, we have about 10,000 in debt left on it. So, and I want to sell my pickup, but I just found out today that the transmission went out and that's a $6,000 repair.

>> I just don't know where to start.

>> What do you guys make?

>> Uh about 180,000 a year.

>> There's some good news. And what can you sell your truck for if you got the transmission fixed?

If I somewhere between 33 and 39,000.

>> Okay. And how much money do you have in savings if anything?

>> Uh I've got about 500 bucks in savings right now. >> Okay. And what could you sell the camper for?

>> Uh the camper is probably about 30,000 and we owe about 45 on it.

>> So you're underwater on that. Are you underwater on the truck as well?

>> Um I owe 31 on it. So, if I put a transmission back in it, then I technically, yes, I would be underwater on it, but then I could sell it and walk away from the payment. >> Good. Well, I'm just thinking that if you get rid of that camper in the truck, man, you can breathe a little bit.

>> Yeah. So, the whole reason we got a camper was cuz we moved from Montana to Texas and living in a camper with a couple dogs was the cheaper option than renting down here. I mean, we pay around $1,600 a month with, you know, with my

lot rent, the camper payment, and our electric. >> So, you're Are you currently living in the camper? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. What would rent be?

>> Uh, rent somewhere from 2 to 25,00.

>> Uh, every place that I've looked at that accepts dogs is usually pretty high.

It's hard to find a place that accepts dogs without it being around that two grand mark. >> Okay. Well, I'm just worried because this camper is going to continue to just tank in value and you're going to you be even more underwater on it to where you're going to go, well, I guess we have to live in this camper forever.

This is our life now. And so for a couple making 180K, you can afford $2,000 in rent.

>> Yeah. So, I I just don't want you doing bad math going, "Well, it's worth it to stay in this camper and stay in debt." When you could knock out $45,000 plus

the 31 of the truck. That's half your debt right there.

>> Yeah. >> And now making 180k. How quickly can you clean up 75? 12 months.

>> So, that's the napkin math I'm seeing on paper. I don't know if you see that future, that path out of this, but there's a very clear path out of this if you guys want out. And >> and bro, you asked us. We don't know where to start. George gave you a math like a path and it's literally a year from now. >> That's it. >> Okay. >> But I want to get to if if if you were just sitting with me and we were having nachos and you said I don't know where to start.

>> I don't think you have taken full ownership yet.

>> Because I've heard you say >> go ahead. >> Oh, sorry. No, no, no. I was going to say I just went through the baby steps reading the book. So, >> sure. No, I got you. I got you. Here's what I want you to begin to own from this point forward. Not I had to, I

needed to. There's the only I want you to say, I chose to go buy a $50,000

truck that I couldn't afford even in the middle of a bankruptcy.

I want you to say, "We made 180 grand

and instead of paying $2,000 a month for a one-bedroom apartment, because we are choosing, I'm owning I'm choosing to have two dogs in this little bitty space, I chose to buy a camper that I couldn't afford." Ownership here is where you got to start because so far the story you've told us is all these things have happened to you and I just want you to exhale and say, "I've made some choices." And that means because here's what that's freeing. I made those choices and now I can choose to make other ones because right now you're just waiting for life to happen to you the other direction.

And so there's some kind of reckoning about, man, I did something really dumb.

I went and bought a big nice camper that I can't afford so that we could keep two dogs. And bro, I love my dogs. Love

them. And when my wife and I were getting out of debt and we had to move into a apartment on a college campus with a toddler, I had to pay somebody to keep my two dogs for a year

because long-term more important those dogs was my wife and my son and my

freedom. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> But it just comes with you owning all of this. Not this happened and then I had to and this happened and then I had to. This happened and then I had to. I'm gonna own this because then you can own what happens next and George just gave you a literally a one-year plan. Can just fast forward to yourself this time not Christmas of 2026.

You're done with bankruptcy. You owe nobody anything. You and your wife and

you finally have that clean slate you've been dreaming about for seven years.

>> Yep. That's it. >> And it's going to be a hellacious year.

year. And if y'all move two dogs into onebedroom apartment, it's going to be full of dog hair and smells and all that stuff. Great. It's a year. It's one year.

You get what I'm saying? Is your wife on board with this plan?

>> Yeah. So, we've talked about a few few different things. It's, you know, I told her I wanted to figure out what we needed to do to get our life back on track to where we had money in the bank and we survived. And I mean, we live comfortable as we are, but I would love to live better than comfortable.

>> I think we needed some discomfort before we get to comfort. Right now, $11,000 is

probably going to slip through your fingers in the next 30 days. Am I wrong?

>> No, you're not. >> And it's going to go right back out to lenders and minimum payments and >> restaurants, >> restaurants, and comfort,

>> right? That's what's been happening because that's why we only have 500 bucks when we make 180 grand a year. So, what I what I want you guys to do is make a budget tonight where you list out your income. $11,000 expenses. Here's my

four walls. Here's food, utility, shelter, transportation. Here's the minimum debt payments. Anything that isn't on that list, we don't spend money on one year. Could you guys commit to that?

>> I believe we can. >> And the one thing you need more than anything after 6 years of bankruptcy and

starting a new life with somebody is you need some confidence. You need to begin to trust yourself again. And the you can't think your way to trust. You have to act your way to trust. Doing the next right heart thing for one calendar year will change everything from your DNA on

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We'll get you started. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll gift it to you if you guys commit to doing this stuff. And call us back if we can help along the way.

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Not available in all states. And we've got something special today. Today's question comes from Bailey in Florida and it's an audio question. So, let's take a listen. John. >> Hi, my name is Bailey and I'm from Florida. I'm on baby said, too, and I'm trying to decide what to do with my car.

I have a 2021 Honda Civic that I owe about 18790 on, but it's only worth around 175. My brother works for Ford and he wants me to get a brand new Ford Maverick with a lifetime warranty. He's got these employee discounts. He's able to get all these fees taken off. Uh, he's kind of been my financial adviser most of my life and he thinks it's great decisions. He makes great money. It's not like I'm taking financial advice from broke people as Dave would say.

Should I sell the Civic and get a cheaper used car while I pay off the rest of my debt or would getting a new car make sense?

>> Oh boy, there's so much to unpack here.

First of all, your brother is your

financial adviser, and you said he makes great money, so it's good to take financial advice from him as he tries to talk you into a car that you can't afford that he's going to make commission off of. This whole thing just feels odd to me. >> Not as odd as a Ford Maverick with quote unquote a lifetime warranty.

>> Yikes. And guess who's making all the money off that warranty? His brother.

[laughter] >> No wonder he's rich. Yeah, exactly. H you're in baby step two. You've got debt.

You're 1,300 bucks underwater on this car. I'm guessing you you will make that within your next paycheck. And so just save up a little bit more than that to get a a new to you car. Get something used.

Please do not go out and buy a new car. I don't care if you're getting an employee discount. buying a brand new car. It's going to depreciate in value like a rock and you're going to be carrying this payment which is just replacing the payment you have now which is just broke people mentality.

>> Yeah. You basically have a car with a lifetime warranty. It's called a Honda Civic. >> Yeah.

>> Those cars last for eternity. They're apocalypse cars.

>> So if you make, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 grand and you want to keep the car, then just pay it off in the next year or two and be done with it. I don't I don't know if you have more debt than that, but that's where I would start. And if you want to sell it and get a cheaper used car because you said while I pay off the rest of my debt, that tells me there's a bigger problem here.

then buy a 10 grand car. That'll get you out of debt much faster. So, >> and and and let's just put this out here. Um George, I know in my life, I'm pretty sure I know yours, but let's just put this out there. Um, you're pretty good with money, pathologically. So, I call you and I have money questions, right? So, I trust you. Have you bought a new car

in my life? >> Since you started cleaning up your money mess. >> No, I haven't bought a new car ever personally. >> Yeah. >> I just got a new to me car and it was almost new and I still couldn't I couldn't fathom paying the MSRP retail price. So instead, I found one that was slightly used and I got a 22% discount.

>> I did the exact same thing. My discount wasn't near that high because I bought a reputable brand instead of the one you brought. >> But like even I couldn't bring myself to buy a brand new car. It was new that year, but someone had driven it and they had brought it back for what >> and we are both in a place where we you could and it would not be against the Ramsey parameters cuz here's what we say.

If you have a net worth of a million or more, you can stomach the depreciation. you can buy the new car in cash >> or as Dave says, can you just take that money and set it on fire in your living room and your your family will still be able to continue on, right? And so it's this even if you get like a deal and a thing and all the fees taken off, the second you drive that Ford Maverick off the lot, it's worth less. It's worth less.

>> It's going to lose 10%. >> You could back it up and resell it back to them for the even the same price you just got it minus all the fees and everything.

heard of anybody buying a new caring themselves out of debt. And that really isn't a real sentence I just made up, but you can't buy yourself a new car to

get yourself out of debt. You just either have to suck it up and pay off this Honda Civic, this 21, which will last you for all of your life, or like

George said, sell it and get a 20 a 2005

Honda Civic that's still running for 3,000 bucks and it looks ridiculous and

drive that until you pay everything off.

>> I drove one of the I had an09 Honda Civic I drove up until a few years ago.

>> It's still driving somewhere.

>> Well, here's the truth. Kelly Daniel, your producer, her son bought it and then he crashed it within two weeks. I bet you they um >> it's on a pound lot somewhere.

>> Nope. I bet you they somebody with a hammer and a chisel like fixed the the the thing and it's still driving somewhere. >> They are truly invincible vehicles. It was great.

>> Yeah. >> So yeah, I think you're you're stuck in a broke people uh maze here. And I would choose a better role model than your brother who's about to get you into a lifetime warranty and yet absolve you of all of the he said all the fees are taken off except that lifetime warranty that's thousands of dollars extra that you paid. That's mostly commission to him.

So, hey, I I think it's worth calling out here.

today, George. Somebody sent me something. I'm trying to I I want to buy a place where I can go hunting that's just mine, right? And I can invite a couple of buddies. Somebody sent me something today that's really amazing and it's actually at a really amazing price and I don't have that money. And

if you're trying to get out of debt, it's it's amplified.

100% of the people who get out of debt have a quote unquote great opportunity from their uncle. Their dad's trying to sell a thing or I'm just going to sell you this guitar or this what it's always going to come and you have to stick to it. It's just like getting on a really firm nutrition plan for a season and then somebody shows up at your house with three dozen cookies they just made for your family because you have a choice to make when that happens. There's always going to be a new a deal, >> a shinier, newer, better thing in front of you.

>> It can be a great deal. It's just not a good deal for you, especially during the season. So, let this be an exercise in saying no. All right.

Peggy is in Colorado Springs up next.

>> Hi. >> Hey. How can we help?

>> Well, um I wanted to ask get some

advice. My husband and I are in our middle 70s and um

young >> we feel like it. Um, we have had an

opportunity come up to take a cruise to

uh in Europe from uh from Rome to Istanbul.

And um it's going to cost I figure I've

been creating a budget for it and it looks like it's going to cost I can barely say it uh about $35,000

for the whole thing. And I'm just trying to find out if we should even be thinking about spending that kind of money. What's your net worth?

>> Uh about oh 1 1.5 1.6 million somewhere

in there. >> And how are you guys covering all of your expenses right now?

Um, we have a paid for house that's

worth about $800,000

and we have our monthly regular income

is uh about 9,000 and then we each have

little part-time jobs, so to speak. And

um so that's a little bit of extra income that not that's not part of that 9,000. >> Great. [clears throat] So maybe call it like 10,000 a month. So, you're making, you know, six figures a year, no payments, no mortgage. How much money do you have saved for the trip?

>> Well, I had I've been looking at cruises

like this for a couple of years now, and in fact, this cruise, it came up um we

got a a note from a letter from his alumni association from his college, and it was this particular cruise, and it's one I had been looking at, and it was with the cruise line. I had decided we that we would cruise with whenever we did it. >> Serendipitous. >> Do you have 35,000?

[sighs] >> Well, we have it. We'd have to take it out of uh some of it. I have about 10,000 toward what I was saving for the cruise.

So, the rest of it would >> come out of your retirement account. >> A little bit, but it it would come out of one of our retirement accounts.

>> I mean, you're probably not going to be depleting those retirement accounts in the next few years, right? You got 9,000 coming in outside of that?

>> Yeah, we we what I've been doing since we both have earned income with the RMDs we have to take from the U IRA. [snorts] We've been funding our Roth IRA.

>> Peggy, guess what? You're going to Europe. >> I feel like a game show host right now.

>> You're going to Europe. Go and have the time of your life. Take tons of pictures and rub it in your kids' faces. >> And don't do the math on what it's costing you per hour to enjoy the trip.

Just enjoy the trip. Have fun.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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Michael is in South Carolina up next.

Michael, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Appreciate what you guys do. So, I'm in a sales position that has like a base plus a bonus that you get uh throughout the year and then you get a bigger bonus at the end of the year. End of the year is here. And I'm expected to get a bonus or I will get a bonus that I will most likely never get again. And so, I want to use this money as best my wife and I

possibly could. And so, >> how big is this bonus? >> About $200,000. It's about $200,000

before taxes. >> Good. Is there any openings?

>> You guys hiring? >> Well, yes, there are. But hey, >> what do you say? Wait, I I'm interested.

Why do you think you'll never have this good of a year again?

>> So, the way our our structure is that

you get your base salary and then based upon the quota, your percentage of your quota, you get a a bonus based on what

percentage of your quota you get to. And that bonus is a percentage of your base salary. It's confusing. It's actually pretty common in the sales world these days.

But so I basically had a pretty low quota last year and blew it out of the water. And so I know my quota this year is just going to get higher and higher and higher. And hey, I expect to blow it out of the water. >> Why don't you blow that one out of the water, dude?

Yeah, man.

>> My base salary right now is about $80,000.

>> Okay. So 80 plus the 200 >> that I got I got commissions. I got

commissions throughout the year that totaled about $60,000 or so.

>> Nice. >> Oh man, had the year, man. 340.

>> Yeah, it was it was a good year. It was a good year. >> Great. Are you married?

>> I am. I'm married. We have two kids. Um, and the dilemma that we're in, so we we have a house that we bought like 5 years ago, and we just recently moved into a new house, new to us, and we rent the other house out. It's got about $100,000 left on it at a 3% interest rate. The

new house we're in has like $290,000 on it at a 7.25%.

So, you're probably getting at where I'm going. >> Sure. How much do you guys have in savings?

>> So, in our savings, so we have in our savings and our if I logged into my apps about $20,000. We have about uh 10 to

15,000 in a brokerage account. That's totally separate. And then I have some retirement accounts and stuff as well.

>> And any other debt outside of these two mortgages?

>> So I I would normally say no except I did recently buy a mower and it's 0% down for a year. So I've just been paying what it will cost to pay it off any I know, >> bro. You make 340 grand this year,

>> but I'm going to finance, but I'm putting like 200 bucks a bucks on it.

[laughter] >> Okay. Well, we'll pay that off with your bonus. How about we start with that? stretch and pay that off. >> All right. >> Okay. Deal. >> What will be your What will be the actual net from all of this? Like how much will you net by Christmas to be able to throw at these mortgages?

>> I'm hoping to have I'm I'm I'm going to say a h 100,000, but I mean it could be possibly 120 to $130,000 that I could do anything I want

with. >> Okay. So, if I was in your shoes, normally we'd say let's get knock out the primary mortgage first. But if you can knock out this rental mortgage with one fell swoop >> and free up that payment to now apply to the other mortgage, I would go that route and attack the the primary aggressively at that point.

>> Okay, that's kind of where I was leaning as well. >> Yes. And and and good. Can I just say, dude, out of the gate, you know what you're thinking like? You're thinking like a farmer.

Like the old school farmers that have >> a homestead. Yeah, >> they have. Do you have a homestead?

>> We do. We have some garden and some animals that bring in some stuff. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, like this like this idea has been lost on us as a culture, but farmers for all of human history would have a year that was just record yield and it was amazing. And >> they knew that doesn't happen every year. And every 5 to 7 to 10 years there's a bust year, >> right? And so the fact that you're as young as you are, as successful as you are, knowing I crushed it this year, I made 340K this year. I'm probably

not going to make that next year. Most people in your situation go buy a house based on I make 340 a year and they buy two stupid cars. Good on you, man. This

is awesome. >> And I would I would enjoy some of it, too. So, I think you and your wife sit down and go, "Hey, we're going to knock out the mortgage. Anything above and beyond that, well, and the mower.

Anything above and beyond that, we're going to enjoy some of it. We're going to give some of it. Maybe stack some in the emergency fund if you want to beef that up a little bit. And man, that's going to free up some cash flow because now you're that property is cash flowing pretty nicely with no mortgage on it.

What will you be netting from that property once it's paid off?

>> It'll be about $700 after rent is what we'll get for it.

>> 700 bucks profit. >> So that's right.

>> Are you even profiting? It sounds like you're losing money on this thing right now then.

>> Well, so the mortgage on the house is about 700 and we charge about 1,400 for it. So we'll bring in about 700. No, but

my mind once I pay off the mortgage. >> But yeah, you pay off the mortgage, you'll be making 1,400 a month, right?

>> That's right. Yeah. In my head, it's like I put some of it back into it. But yeah, I guess I would be netting for >> Oh, I forgot. You're really wise. My bad. Yes. Like, man, if you put a if you

keep a small fund for taxes and insurance in that in that house, and if you start building a small emergency fund for when, not if, the air conditioner fails and the roof needs to be replaced, bro, you are so far ahead.

So far ahead, man. That's incredible, dude. >> And I would I would set sit with your wife and set maybe a four or five year goal to knock out your primary mortgage because how old are you, too?

>> 30. >> 30. So, think about this. 35 years old, you have not a payment in the world.

>> Two paid for houses. >> Two paid for houses. One's cash flowing and you're still making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. It's a pretty sweet life.

>> Yeah, that would be amazing. >> Or how about this? What if you did a hold my beer and you said, "I want to scratch and claw, honey, for one more year. I want to be the most aggressive salesperson on my team and they're going to give me a bananas quota and I'm going to crush it, too.

>> Oh, yeah. >> You know what I mean? And then, but then have a destination after that. We pack up and we all go to Disneyland or Disney World or wherever and or we go to Jamaica, whatever you want to do. And then you look at her in the eye and say, "Then I'm going to exhale. I'm not going

to be the most crazed out aggressive because I want to be present for you and these kids, >> but we have a chance in the next 24 months to set us up forever.

>> All right. Well, it sounds like I'm I'm on the right page." My mind was like, well, hey, should I focus on refinancing this house to bring this payment down or do I just pay off the other house completely? you can figure out what the break even is on, you know, when you're actually going to break even on that refinance because it'll cost you a little bit. >> 725 and bringing it down to what? What is it right now? Five and a half. >> Are you on a 30-year?

>> I'm on a 30-year right now. Yep.

>> You could probably refinance into a 15 and have, you know, right in the fives right now. >> That'd be worth it. >> Your payment's going to go up because it's a 15, but you'll knock that thing out within a few years and be done with it >> because way more is going to principal. I dare you to go look at that amortization schedule. You're gonna throw up seeing how much is going to interest versus principal on that balance.

>> Oh, I hate it. Every time I every month when I get the statement, I'm like, >> and I don't know if you're like me. I And my wife always makes fun of me about this. I have a weird thing about the first number, right? So, when we were paying off debt, I was like, I just need to get it with a two in front. I just need to get it with a one in front. Right? Even if it was $199,99,

like I just needed to get that number. If I'm you, I'm looking at that seven in front. If I could refinance that and even I was going to recoup in 12 to 18 months >> and I could get a five in front, I would just feel better. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd get in touch with >> like a best case scenario. Go ahead.

>> No, I was just saying to say if you want to just run the numbers, our friends at Church Hill Mortgage can just help show you the numbers and go, "Hey, this makes sense or this doesn't make sense based on your situation and the market."

>> Okay. >> And I'll tell you my when I called when I called Church Hill when I Yeah. When I called Church Hill and asked about refinancing a couple years ago, the first thing um my Church Hill person

told me is I'm going to dig into this and run the numbers. I will not take your business if this isn't good deal for you. And that's how I knew, oh, you're you're my right person. >> Real deal.

>> Yeah.

Well, that's great. That's awesome. Hey, congratulations on giving me a little bit of a >> just congrats on a great >> Can I ask what you sell?

I sell security systems, fire alarms, that kind of stuff. >> You're dang good at it, dude. They don't give out money to people who uh who aren't making them a lot of money, >> especially sales sales people.

>> Yeah, you've earned it and more. So, congratulations. And uh you can jump on to churchillmortgage.com and get in touch with their team over there and help you run these numbers and it might save you some. I think at the rate you're going, you're just going to knock this out. And so, they might go, "Yeah, if you're going to knock it out in two years, may not be worth it, but it's going to be seven. Sure. Let's refine it. >> And have an amazing Christmas for your wife. Do something cool for her.

>> Get a crazy gift that blows her mind.

The holidays can come with a lot of pressure to spend. family, friends, secret Santa at the office, all the things. But y'all, this season should be about peace, not payments. That's a big

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[music] The allnew Every Dollar is here.

And now it's way more than just our world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Mark is in Ohio up next.

Mark, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

It's an honor. >> Absolutely. How can John and I help?

>> Oh, well, I'm calling about my father.

He's um he's been a Christian for

probably nearly 50 years. He spends his

life, you know, every day serving people. That's his calling. And um he he

owned a construction business for something like 35 years. And during that time, he's uh he's acquired a lot of rental properties um all debtfree. And

um the issue is what I'm calling you today to talk about is that he doesn't have a will or an estate plan. And he

says that he doesn't need one because he believes that the Lord will return before >> his death, you know, during his lifetime. >> Okay.

>> So, so how do I encourage him to do that without making it feel like, you know,

he's questioning his own faith? And who am I to to do that? You know >> what date does he have in mind? Can he tell me when the Lord would be arriving approximately? >> No, he No, he doesn't have any date or anything like that. He >> just before he croakkes. He's like it's

definitely going to happen before I pass. >> Yeah, that's what he believes. >> But he and he knows that he has good authority.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. >> Here's what I would say, dude. This is this is a very tough situation. I would sit down with him and say, "Dad, um,

like watching you do life has been one

of the greatest learning lessons and like coolest things any son could ever have. I've watched you serve people.

I've watched you pro he probably gives rent below market value, right? He probably takes care of people. Is that true?" >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. So, like if you lead off this conversation by saying like watching how you serve your local community and you go make money and you figured out how to do both of those well and you've dedicated your life to God, like all that's amazing. It's been a high privilege being your son, can I ask one thing of you? In the event

in the event that something does happen to you um before the Lord returns,

this would be a huge mess for me,

>> right? >> Would you do me the honor? And because some people think wills are for them.

Would you do me the honor of putting this stuff down in writing on the off chance? Because you're not going to convince him, right?

like you're not going to make a rational argument. He's going to be like, "You know what? You're right." That he's not going to do that.

>> And so really what you're what you're appealing to in this moment is your

sense of discomfort.

>> Yeah. >> That's that to me is the only shot you got. Do you have siblings?

>> Yeah, there's 10 10 of us.

>> That sounds fun. So he How does he feel

about the government?

Uh he he's not he's not a fan.

>> Well, he is a fan because he's letting the government decide what happens with his estate. >> That's the way to say it.

>> Yeah, you're you're right. You know, and we've I've talked to >> He loves the government.

>> He trusts the government to handle all of his estate planning right now. Yeah. [clears throat] >> He's hired him out.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> And they're happy to to do whatever they want with his property. >> They're happy to take his probate fees on top of his estate taxes uh as all this unfolds. So, here's what I would say. Even if Jesus returns tomorrow, scripture still calls us to be wise stewards today cuz we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring.

>> And so, you can appeal with that. You can appeal with the government angle. You can appeal with the Mark wants it for security and peace of mind angle.

Cuz here's what we do know. The calls that we take on the show where 10 siblings are involved dividing up a very complicated estate never ends well. It ends with relational resentment. And even if all 10 of y'all are on the same page, which there's 0% chance of that, right? >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> It's those 10 and y'all have all married other people.

>> You're right. >> And they all have cousins and they all think that by marrying into a construction >> empire >> empire that they're going to suddenly get rich. >> And Uncle Randy wants a piece cuz he helped him with that deal one time. >> That's right. He told me he promised me.

>> He promised me.

>> And bro, getting 10 signatures to simply sell one >> $110,000 rental property is a nightmare.

>> It'll be It'll be a reality show on HGTV, I'll tell you that much.

>> Right. Yeah. That's my biggest fear, you know, is causing issues amongst the family. >> Have you told him that? Cuz that's another big one. Dad, I want to I want that. I want this family. I want my brothers and sisters, I want us to all stay united after you pass.

In the event you pass before Jesus returns, I want us to all stay united.

And this will be tough.

Like, you're almost guaranteeing that y'all will all dissolve your relationship in some shape, form, or fashion.

>> Right.

I hate that you're in this situation, man, because your dad seems like a pretty amazing guy. He's just got this thing in his mind that's pretty tough.

And it might be a protective measure for him because he doesn't want to he has

been a pretty strong guy and a guy that's always been in control of who he's giving and his his own company and all that. And the thought of being in a hospital bed, the thought of passing away is so heavy

that it's easier to create a story that no no I I know it's going to happen.

>> Which the if scriptur is pretty clear, you don't have any idea when it's going to come. Nobody does.

>> Right. Right. >> Right.

>> Yeah. Well, hopefully if he hears this, maybe this will >> help persuade him. >> I hope so, man. Or send him Yeah. Send him the call. send him the call because I mean George and I are both sitting here. What an amazing guy. What an amazing legacy he's left. And

>> what what a way to pit brother against brother and sister against sister or

brother's wife's cousin suing everybody

because they tripped and fell on one of the houses in their you get what I'm saying? It just go what a recipe for dissension among your family tree that that you spent so >> much time >> watering and growing, >> right? >> Yeah. There's so much out of his control and yet there's so much in his control and this is one of the things he can control during his time left here on earth and I hope it's a long one.

>> All right, let's get to Sue in North Carolina. Sue, get right to the question. We're up against the clock. How can we help today? Uh, >> yes, sir. I was calling actually to find out when you sell your house. That's what my husband and I are getting ready to put our house up on the market on February 1st of 2026.

>> Okay. >> And the big thing is that we're having a problem with when we we're moving up near St. Louis from Charlotte, North Carolina. And um my husband and I are

not agreeing on where we should live,

you know, if we should go ahead and build a house while we're living in our house or should we and selling our house or should we, you know, rent there and then build. So I don't want to rent, but

he does. >> What's his argument for rent? >> Kind of, you know, each other's throats about it. [laughter] Well, does it is he stressed out with the idea of trying to sell this house and we don't have the money from the equity and we're trying to build this new one and we need a loan for that.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. >> I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

>> Yeah, we have 225,000 in um equity.

>> Okay. >> So, we're doing well and we bring in, you know, about 8,000 a month. You know, we're retired. we over 60 and uh we

don't have too much debt. Um so we're

just this is we've been in this house for 25 years and it's a turnkey so

everything's ready I'll accept just a few repairs like about $5,000 worth.

>> Sue I can I can tell you Sue every time me and my wife move have moved especially we move towns we always rent for six months at least. Okay. Can you compromise a short-term lease just to kind of get the lay of the land, get your bearings because moving is already so stressful. >> Where's the grocery stores? Where is the nearest place for the grandkids? Like all those little like where's the restaurants? All of that stuff, man.

Finding a new place in a new community.

That's a that's that's a tough lifestyle shift. >> And then the timing of it gets tight to try to time it all to sell yours, close on yours, close on the new one, all in the right time. So, if you can make all that happen and not be stressed financially or otherwise, go for it. But I think there's a lot of wisdom in just renting for just six months. It's not a long time. You can put your stuff in storage and then say, "Okay, I'll rent, but you got to hire like turnkey movers

that will get it out of the storage [music] space and put it exactly where I want it." And he has to leave town while the move happened. >> Oh, yeah.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Give us a call. We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Tyler is in Texas up next. What's going on, Tyler?

>> Hello. Nice to nice to be talking with you today. You as well. I am >> I'm a married man. I just uh I just

became a dad last year. My about a year

and a half. >> Fantastic. and we we just got rid of uh

over $100,000 in student loans.

>> Yeah, dude. Congrats, brother.

>> Thank you very much. And now we're in a interesting predicament. Um so we want

to buy a house. We are completely debtree at the moment. Um

but I am currently

with a second job. I'm the maintenance man at our property complex part-time

and we have free rent.

>> Oh, heck yeah. >> And we So, we'd love to uh we'd love to

get into a bigger house and we kind of need it, but gosh, how can I walk away from that?

>> One word with a three words. Sorry, I

was going to say [laughter] one word.

>> One three-word. >> One three-word sentence. All right, you ready? >> Okay. with a plan,

>> right? >> My wife and I did the exact thing. I moved into a residence hall. One of the things at the university was over I was overousing. So, we got to live in that apartment for free and there was me and

my wife and a toddler in a very small place and it worked for a season.

And so, we had a plan. We had an end date. But that end date was contingent on two things. One, my wife and I shook hands on it. And two, there was a financial goal we were going to try to get to.

>> Exactly. >> I think the challenge for you guys is this thing kind of feels indefinite.

>> Right. It's indefinite. And we feel like

the end date of this is going to be dependent on uh getting a certain amount of down payment. >> Great. and being able to achieve a certain monthly payment that we think would be very manageable and would give

some wiggle room to to give us some incidental spending without dipping into our emergency fund cuz we don't want to be housed with too too much of a payment. >> Absolutely. >> But where we're we want a three ideally

a fourbedroom house and something like that where we are living is looking at about a4 million.

>> Okay, great. And and that's

that's not undoable, but >> most of America is like, "That's it?

That's amazing. I want to move to your town, dude. Don't tell anyone what town you live in because everyone will move there." >> Right. Right. Well, we want to keep our payments under two grand a month for sure with with everything in >> So, we have our magic numbers. The house is going to cost 250. We want to keep the payments around two grand. So, how much down do you need? I can do the math for you right now. On a 15-year, you're looking at maybe 60 grand down. Does

that sound right?

>> Yeah, sounds about right to me. >> How much do you have currently saved outside of your emergency fund?

>> We've got $14,000 directly dedicated uh

for down payment at the moment. Uh and we we can probably do $3,500 uh momentum

towards that a month.

>> So, one year from now, you have your number. Tada.

>> Tada. 42 plus the 14 with high yield savings account you'll get right around 60.

>> So a year >> and you sit down with your wife and you say we have one year of and if y'all

want to cut spending she wants to make some money on the side whatever it just accelerates this >> right >> but and it we get $60,000 we have 14 so

we have 46,000 bucks left to go it's going to take us about a year and then we're out of here.

>> Well cool deal. So within the Dave Ramsey framework, it is within the realm of blessing to walk away from free living in favor of something like this.

Then >> Dave pays an insane amount of money to

keep up his various houses. Yes, >> free rent would never stop Dave from buying real estate. I'll tell you that much. He would just use it to accelerate buying more real estate.

Cuz here's the other thing to think about. That real estate is going to cost you more 5 years from now. And so at some point the free rent party's going to end. At some point you're not going to want to live in an apartment or you're going to have a big enough family where it doesn't make sense. And so I would start planning for that day. And it starts today, my friend. >> That's awesome, dude.

>> Well, I appreciate that. Well, thank you for the uh thank you for that advice.

That's really helped. >> Hey, and and congrats for your new kid.

Congrats on you being a dad who is and a husband who is putting in two jobs to to put his family in a position where they're going to That's all. This is awesome. We don't get to talk to a lot of great dads and great husbands. You're one of those guys. And so it's it's an honor to talk to you, brother. >> And the fact that you've created $3,500 in margin just to throw at this savings, it just blows my mind. Fantastic. Very inspired, man. Thanks for the call.

Elizabeth is up next in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. What's going on, Elizabeth?

>> Hi. Um, my question is if I can afford to put my kids into a Catholic school.

>> Oo, what's that cost?

So it is about six to seven grand a year

is my understanding >> per child.

>> Per child. >> How many kids? >> And I So I have two kids and they won't need the first one wouldn't start for another year and a half.

>> Okay. Do you have 14 grand of net income

to throw at this without derailing any other financial goals?

Well, with with 30 dayc care costs, I

feel like my thought is that would just channel into what the cost of

Catholic school is. So, that I I feel

like we're making things work right now with daycare costs. So, >> when you say making things work, are things tight? Are do you guys have debt you're trying to pay off? Do you have savings? >> We just our mortgage to pay. Um, and I'd

say we're probably like pretty close to breaking even each month as far as expenses going out with mortgage and daycare and then uh just household

things. >> Are you investing right now, >> etc.? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're investing 15%, you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, you're doing the baby steps to a tea and but all the money is allocated to those places and right now you don't have extra money to throw at let's say the mortgage or toward kids college funds.

pretty pretty much. >> So, what's the plan with that stuff if this is the foreseeable future for the next I don't know 10 years?

>> That is a good question. Um, I mean, as

far as knowing that daycare currently with two kids is probably about 25 grand that I'm paying a year. I I would I see

the balance as okay, this isn't as expensive as that, so I should be able.

>> So the 10 grand you save, you could funnel toward, you know, 529 plans for college, throw a little bit at the mortgage. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> I mean, it sounds reasonable. What's your household income?

>> Uh about 160 a year. And my my husband is commissioned, so that his is a little bit more fluctuating.

>> It's variable. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's it's green flags for me. If this is a big value uh to you guys, it's a part of your faith and you want to do this and you have the money and it's not derailing your other financial goals, I'm good with it. Here here's what it's going to cost you though. Okay, I want to be sober about it.

>> Yes. >> Given the financial picture you just gave George and I, it it's or me and

George, it's going to cost you Y'all are going to be a Camry family.

>> Okay. and you're not going to go by the

big suburban and when you get into the middle school and high school and your kids are doing [music] sports and athletics and everyone's rolling up and new Escalades and stuff like that cuz that's a private school >> and going on vacations for fall break.

>> That's right. Y'all are going to this is this is enough of a value for y'all that it's going to be worth. We're going to be a used Camry family because this is that big of a deal to us. And [music] that's okay. That's amazing. I love that choice. But I want you to make those choices with sobriety, not always being

[music] like, "Man, we wish we had a different car. We need a bigger house." Nope. This was our value and this is what we chose.

[music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000 and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers may be facing more competition right now.

Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5 1.5% in September, which is giving buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Ashley and Dan are up next in Virginia.

What's going on, guys?

>> Hi. So, we recently moved from the south

from Baton Rouge, Louisiana to Virginia.

>> We previously tithed. Thank you. We previously tithed at um a church that we

had been going to probably almost a decade in uh Baton Rouge and we haven't

found a church home yet. We've tried a couple and we've um been looking around and we just don't really know where to tithe. Um, I was a very strict tither and my husband Dan did probably like at the end of every year he would just do 10% of everything he made. He would don donate at the end of the year. So, we just don't know where we should tithe to now. >> Great question. Where where are you feeling convicted to give?

>> I really loved our church. We both

really loved our church that we used to go to. And if we're not together, if I

um go visit home or something, we'll still watch that church that's in Baton Rouge. And so that's where I tithed

until we started going somewhere new.

And then I gave one time um a tithe to

one of the churches that we went to because I felt like, you know, I probably should do something here in my local community instead of back home.

But now I just don't know since we haven't settled. M >> are there a bunch of kids in your community that just lost food benefits?

>> I don't believe so. I think Virginia is still um doing all the food benefits like statewide, >> but that is that is a consideration. The church that we have been going to has been giving a lot of money. I think in

um where they did $20,000 to communities

um that had lost or were at risk of losing food benefits.

>> Well, let me free you. There's no wrong way to give as long as you're doing it with a with a joyful spirit. And so, you're not going to screw this up. If you're asking the options, you could give to your old church for now. You could give to every new church you jump into on Sunday. You could stack it all

up and give at the end of the year. Maybe you find a a church home and you just save up all that money and and throw it at that new church that you call home. >> Or you can go find a local elementary school and say, "We hear there might be a gap in school breakfast and lunches and we want to be a part of filling that gap.

It's consider the spirit of the thing,

not the maybe the destination." Right.

>> Yes, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Yes.

I'm just proud of you guys. That's a really cool thing to say. This is a really important value to us and we want it to go somewhere and we just don't know exactly where until we land. And so >> keep George's words in your head, which is a sentence I've never said before.

>> Wow. >> You can't mess this up.

>> Generosity is Thank you so much.

>> Generosity is a posture. It's a way to do life, right?

>> Yeah. >> I think uh you're going to do the right thing. Whatever that thing is, whatever you do, it was the right thing. I want you to know that. John is in San Diego up next. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help today?

>> Hey, yeah, thanks for jumping on with me. I just have quick question for you guys to see where to put some money and kind of pick your brain a little bit. I'm 20, excuse me, 30 years old. I live in San Diego, California. Um, I've got no debt at all. Uh, my company pays for my car. or I just have to pay the gas on it as well as very minimal monthly expenses and make about $300,000 a year

and have about $200,000 in savings. And I'm just curious to know if there's anything I can do to put this money anywhere to help save on taxes. I don't own any houses, anything like that. And also, I just feel like in San

Diego, it's kind of impossible to buy a house with what I've got going as well.

>> It's impossible to buy a house with what you've got going. What does that mean?

just like it the income that I have and the savings that I have and just the prices in San Diego have absolutely soared in my job. >> Okay. What So you're a single guy?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, what does a small home in your area cost that you would want to buy?

Give us a number. >> Probably about 1.4.

>> Okay. So, how much would you need as a down payment to make that a manageable mortgage payment in your world?

Probably about seven grand I think would

be what it would be right now with 20% down which seems like a lot.

>> Okay. So 20% is is the goal. That's the number that would get you into a home.

>> Correct. I mean I'm just trying to avoid that PMI. But is that even smart to have to do as well or should I just look at other avenues like buying out of state to continue renting here or I don't know. I feel lost. >> Oh, you don't need a house right now.

You're a single guy. If you want a house that's fine. I don't know that you need a $ 1.4 million starter home. Now, I

know prices are insane out there. That's probably a starter home in San Diego, but you're telling me that it's impossible for a guy with no debt, with 200 grand saved, making $300,000 a year, that he'll never be able to afford a home in San Diego.

>> That I that's what it's seeming like.

>> And you said you have very little expenses. How much can you save per year at this point if you're living frugally and throwing most of your net income at at that savings goal?

>> Probably 80 to 100 >> out of 300. So you're saying 300 gross you net what? 180 or so

>> around there depending. It's variable. A lot of it's commissions. So between 250 and 300 >> 15 grand a month. could somehow figure out with no expenses and no debt how to scrape by on $80,000 by yourself.

>> Correct. >> I bet you could scrape by for less than for [laughter] less than >> ballpark though. You could throw $100,000 a year into the savings, right?

>> Mhm. >> So four years from now, you have $600,000 saved.

>> Mhm. >> I think that can get you a house.

>> So just hold off a little longer.

>> I will. >> Yeah. It's not like it's not a now or never >> in that meantime. Correct. Is there anything I can do in that meantime between now and the next four years to help me save on taxes?

>> Well, that's a different question.

Buying a house for a saving on taxes. If if you're a W2 employee, there's not a whole lot you can do. Now, you can max out a traditional 401k. That'll help a

little bit. >> Um, but there's not like some magic trick if you're W2. John and I pay a whole bunch of taxes. And I'll tell you this, you are in the I'll make up a

term. You're in the squash bracket where

if you made significantly less, there's programs to help you with taxes or to pay none. And if you made significantly more, you're in this big wild, it's a

whole another universe of buying a

property over here and moving it over here and triple stamping a double stamp.

You are in the squash where you are making a significant amount of money and you're getting crushed on taxes and you

live in >> okay >> one of the highest tax states in the country and you live in a really >> very high cost of living area >> high cost of living expensive place to live.

So you have three like really gnarly compounding variables on you. But this is a conversation folks who make and nobody has any sympathy, right? Nobody.

But people who are making 300 grand to 1 1.5 million are getting hammered on taxes because they're just below the big games that guys with tons of money play with tax money and they're just above any sort of relief program whatsoever.

>> Sure. >> So this is where you are. And um as one of my buddies once I I one time I called him and said, "Hey, this is I've never had this happen in my life. I had a book go number one." I called him and said, "I just need to tell one person, he's a banker, how much I spent in taxes last year." And he said, "Good God, that's a

lot." And then he goes, "Wait a minute, that means you make a bunch of money.

I'm never paying for drinks or nachos again." And we all started laughing. And so there is, yes, you're paying a bunch of taxes. You can smile at night knowing that the roads are getting taken care of and the firefighters are showing up and so be it. Or you can just beat yourself over the head every night. But either way, you're in that category that's paying a ton of taxes and there's no games to play or relief in your in your

bracket. I just keep stacking as much cash as possible. Keep living frugally and sooner or later you're going to have a half a million bucks. And I would get into the housing market when you can. I wouldn't wait a decade and I wouldn't do it tomorrow either. or you can move out to the suburbs. >> You're paying a lot of taxes and you're also winning incredibly.

>> Congratulations.

[music]

Jenna is in Florida up next. Jenna, welcome to the show. What's going on?

>> Yes. Hi. Uh, thank you so much for taking my call today. I was calling wanted to kind of seek some professional help. I wanted to see if there's ever

ever a point where there's just too much debt. We don't worry about the debt. We just say, "Hey, pay minimum till, you know, forever and just try to save up as

much money as you can so you can actually try to enjoy retirement and and life later on." >> You sound tired, Jenna.

>> Are you tired? >> Tired. Nervous about what you guys are going to say. >> I mean, you know what we're going to say. You called the Ramsey Show. But you're you're saying, "Hey, our debt is so insurmountable. Should we just ignore it and have a wonderful retirement?" I don't know how that thing leads to the other thing, >> right? Yeah. I >> like it doesn't go away.

>> So, either collectors come after you, sue you, or you file bankruptcy, it implodes your financial life for seven years. There's no like, well, can we just pretend it didn't happen?

>> Well, no. I mean, we would pay like just continue paying the the minimums. Um,

but then try to to also put money in savings. >> How how bad is it? How bad is it? Give us some numbers.

>> Okay, so we have a car uh 26,000 left on

my husband's car. Um, I have 47,000

in my student loans and then we have

475,000 in my husband's student loans and then

525 for the house. So, we've even like

we've been trying to run numbers.

Um, our budget, we have margin 3,000 left over. So, it's just >> Is your husband a physician?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. So, what's your household income?

So, our income is 16,000 a month.

>> Is that your take-home pay? That's what ends up in the bank? >> That's Yeah, that's what ends up in the bank every month is the 16,000.

>> Are you guys investing a single penny right now?

>> Um, I believe I'm putting like 6% in in um retirement and I think he's probably putting like 10%.

>> Okay. So, you're about to get 16% of your household income back if you pause investing.

>> Okay. >> Did you get a refund last year on your taxes or did you owe? No, we owed.

>> Okay. So, that's 16% right there of your

What's the household income? You said >> uh 16,000 a month. >> No. What's your gross gross household income for the year? Like what was your what did your tax return say you made?

>> Um my husband makes 250 and then I make

uh 70. So 340.

>> Okay. So if we do 340* 16, you just got

$55,000 back in your life.

>> Mhm. On top of the 3,000 a month

>> on top of >> That's $90,000 now that you can use to tackle debt. >> I've got more. >> He has to be an adult.

>> Mhm. >> And sell this car because he can't afford it.

>> Mhm. >> And he's going to be the doctor that parks at the very back of the lot >> in a used Corolla.

>> Yeah. >> I'm serious. And you know how I know this is possible? Because I was a guy with a PhD that drove a used Corolla and parked in the back of the lot.

>> I was the guy with a second PhD that drove a 94 F-150 that I bought for

$3,000 out of some guy's field in West Texas. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Right. >> You know, I drive now, whatever I want.

>> Right. >> And then the other piece, you said 16,000 is what you guys take home. What are your actual monthly expenses you need just to keep the lights on and cover the minimum debt payments?

Yeah. So, that's kind of our mortgage is is 3500 a month. Um, after all of our

bills, um, private school, everything.

>> There we go. Ding, ding, ding. We just found a money maker.

>> A month. >> How much are you throwing at private school a month?

>> Um, 1,200.

>> Okay. >> All right. So, there's another $14,000 a year >> on top of the 90. Now, we're over $100,000 a year we can throw at the debt.

Okay. >> Are you seeing what we're doing here?

>> Yeah. >> And we're not even trying.

>> Mhm. >> We're just soft tossing right now. If we actually looked at your budget and said, "Here's your actual income, 16,000." Well, really, it's going to be more once you guys pause investing.

>> You're going to bring a few thousand back. So, let's call it 20,000.

>> And now, let's learn to live on seven.

>> Well, now there's 13 grand a month we can throw at the debt.

>> Right? >> Do you get that? That's 156 grand a year. And if he sells the car, you're down to, let's see, 47 plus the 475,

that's 522.

And we're going to be debtree in less than four years.

>> Mhm. >> And listen, >> right, because we've been like floated the idea of like selling our home, but we love our home. And >> you don't even have to do that because listen, I I've I've studied I've I've

I've worked through the mental health of physicians.

Yes. >> And it's not good. And I'm convinced

that this is one of the core issues is

physicians and their spouses. It's hell.

Seven years plus rotations, plus sleep, no sleep. >> Right? >> Plus matching, plus residency, all that stuff, and you finally get out and then you get that first check and you're like, "Finally, I can dot dot dot, >> right?" >> And then you add a whole bunch of crazy

stressors cuz we're doctors. We're supposed to be rich and

you're broke.

I've got people in my life who I love and care about who are working physicians who are still paying on their student loans and now they have kids in college.

>> Mhm. >> Madness. Madness.

>> Yeah. Right. And literally, it's you guys taking, and by the way, if he works extra shifts or picks up ER shifts, which I have buddies that do, >> he can cut this in half.

>> And you're talking about 24 months, 30 months, and you're free. And then you know what? Y'all are for real? Wealthy.

>> Mhm. >> Then you can live that doctor lifestyle.

>> Yeah. >> Y'all make 300 grand and you're broke.

>> I know it's embarrassing. Uh

Are you willing to do what we said? >> I don't think that's embarrassing. I think what's embarrassing is y'all are too smart to be this broke. Y'all are making daily choices to be miserable.

>> Mhm. >> You know what I mean? To be stressed out, >> right? >> How old are your kids?

>> Um, she's three and a half.

>> She's three and a half. She won't even know what day it is. You could pull her out and put her in a Tuesday Thursday score. I mean, in a in a Mother's Day Out program, >> five days a week at a church.

>> I mean, it's Elmer's glue and googly eyes. We don't really need private school to do that right now. >> Yeah. Good, man.

>> Be in a position to send her to whatever school you want in your community when she hits third grade, >> right?

No, I get it. It's just I guess our thought was the private schools are just so hard to get into. We just we had to start early. So, that's kind of where how we ended up here. They like it. They want you to be like, "You know what? Your three-year-old is good enough for us. Pay up." >> And if you don't get into this school when they're three, they won't get into that school when they're seven. If they don't get that, then they're >> It's none of that's true. Zero of that is true.

>> And by the way, after four years, he's a physician in your local community. He'll know somebody. Y'all will be fine.

>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's reassuring because we were just running the numbers and we would just get frustrated and we would just say, you know what, it we're just have to pay minimum the rest of our life kind of thing. >> No, it's just going to be three years of y'all not acting like doctors, y'all acting like teachers.

>> Yeah. >> And which by the way is still a good life.

>> I think you'll realize how much of that stuff you didn't really need and how exciting it is to be on the path to freedom instead of a path to hopelessness, which is what it is now.

Well, we'll just make min minimum payments. will end up paying a million dollars for his student loans that were $475 because we just let the interest build up and build up while we didn't attack the principal. And I just think you're you're worth more than that and you're worth being out of debt in the next three years and having the next 30 of freedom. Can I guilt trip you for a second? >> Sure. Go ahead. >> I'm going to guilt trip you, but I'm really just sending this message out to anyone listening. Mhm.

>> I actually don't want my physician, the person that I go to when I'm not I'm not okay. Or let me make it let me one up it. When my daughter's not okay, >> I don't want that guy

stressed out of his mind because he can't breathe at his house.

>> I don't want that woman, that physician that I bring my daughter to. I don't want her shaking while she's looking at my daughter because her bills are so high and she can barely make her payments, but her kids in the right school and she's got a nice depreciating asset out in the parking lot and she has a spouse that is working and also making 70 grand, which is an amazing salary. I don't I don't I want a person in [music] who's holding my daughter to exhale and

be completely autonomous so they can make the next right decision for my daughter, not the one that's [music] going to get them the most payout, so they can make this payment. So they can make

our scripture of the day, Proverbs 13:3.

Those who guard their lips preserve their lives, but those who speak rashly will come to ruin. Less Paul said, "Don't say you can't until you prove you

can't." >> At a boy James, Les Paul of the great Gibson guitar. If >> you didn't know, Deloney is a big less Paul Gibson guitar fan.

>> James is a Fender guy, which >> to each his own. It's >> kind of all you need to know. Oh, you are too. >> I like both. I think they both have their, you know, >> right? >> I like Gibson for acoustic.

Switzerland. You like cold brews, too. That's a whole other thing. >> All right. Ryan is in Oregon up next.

What's going on, Ryan? Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Thanks for having me. Uh, I have a question for you, please. I'm a permanently um disabled veteran, so I'm

on a fixed income from the VA for the

rest of my life. And

with a wife and three kids in the economy, it's been a challenge trying to save for retirement and trying to pay off my home. And I'm wondering if you have any ideas on how I can possibly

save more or get higher in steps and whatnot.

>> What's the nature of your disability, brother?

>> Uh 100% I shattered both my legs, my

ankles, and part of my back.

>> Oh my goodness.

Well, on behalf of the regular civilians who are just going about our lives and don't realize the day in and day out pain you you experience on our behalf.

Thank you.

>> You're welcome. >> That didn't put money in your account and that doesn't make your pain go away, but I want to just tell you thank you. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate you. >> Thanks. >> Wow. So, what what is your fixed income?

>> So, I get 4,200 a month. Um I have a

wife and three kids. my wife has to stay

home with me because I unfortunately need a lot of help. Um,

so, you know, with the price of everything and, you know, mortgage, a a

a car, three children, there's just none

left and I'm having a hard time saving.

>> Yeah, I I just it just escaped my mind

and I can take a bunch of time on this call looking it up, but I won't do that.

There's a program um one of my closest friends in the world um is a part of it where um he gets paid for taking care of his disabled brother.

>> Mhm. >> Um have you all applied for that program? >> We have. Yes, we're waiting for that.

>> Oh, waiting for it. Okay. That's that tends to be a huge relief.

>> Yeah. >> I hope you guys get approved for that for sure because that'll help increase the income. So, what are your current expenses every month? Are you guys doing a budget?

>> Absolutely. um cash flow system. Um and that's

obviously helped a lot because we know exactly where each dollar is going. Uh

and we were able to fine-tune that. But I have a mortgage.

>> Um I [clears throat] live >> it is 2,200 plus I it's an HOA so I pay

an HOA fee on top.

>> Yeah. Um, then all utilities of course I

drive if I do ever drive just a free,

you know, beater old Honda. And then my wife, we do have one auto loan out for her. >> How much is left on that?

>> Um, $19,000 left on that.

>> What's the payment? >> Uh, the payment is $390.

>> Okay. So, if you've got if you got rid of that car and had a cash car, you could then at least invest the 390.

Mhm. >> Is there any money left over right now as it stands or are you guys in the hole or you just be able to cover the bills with that 4200?

>> I'm able to cover the bills. I have about $10,000 in savings that I've been able to come up with, but I mean that's over years because there's just not a lot. Uh so I do have that. Um but we

also need a new roof.

>> So, you know, I'm do I paint off the

car? Do I, you know, I got to get the roof? you know, so there's just it's very challenging. >> How how urgent is the roof? Is this like tomorrow or is this 3 years from now >> within the next 6 months?

>> Okay. I would continue stacking cash and get through the storm with the roof and then we'll take a look at the car and see if it's worth selling that downsizing into a cash car or saving up.

So, I think that payment will at least free you guys to invest something. The other glaring issue is that most of your income is going toward your mortgage and HOA.

Right. >> So, is this housing situation the long-term play or can we find something more affordable?

>> The big thing is I don't know if I was

to sell my home. Yes, I have equity. I there everything else is is even more.

Yeah. >> So, I don't even know what I could get into that would even save me much.

>> Here's what I'm hearing though, bro.

You're doing you are squeezing blood out

of a rock every month. Right.

>> Most of the people who call into this show, there's like the last caller we just talked to, there's money everywhere. Right.

>> Right. >> That's not you. And so, like, the

harrowing part of this conversation is like you have a math problem. Y'all are doing amazing with what you got.

>> And so, the challenge here is >> well, it's just it's very hard to keep squeezing the same tomato over and over.

>> Absolutely. And that's where you have to ask way more e what I would say more existential questions which is we're in Oregon which is an expensive place to live and it's a high tax area >> right. >> Do we have to move to Kansas because that's the world that's the cards we're holding right now in our hand.

>> True. Yes. >> I wouldn't wish that on you but I don't I don't know like >> Right. And then also with the VA system how's the VA in Kansas? You know what I mean compared to >> Yeah. I have no idea. So that's a really big factor where I would live is based on the VA care systems around because they're not all the same. >> Totally. And that's going to be one of the that's like that energy you have, that desperation you have, which dude, I can hear it in your voice, man. Um like

and it breaks my heart because you're a you're a dad who gave everything for all of our kids and you're looking at this

like you have a very clear trajectory for yourself >> which is I cannot work and this is the amount of money we have right now. hopefully you get approved for that program. Um, which would give a ton of relief to your family. But without that, like y'all have to make a hard decision about I got to get on the phone and call all my buddies and find the best VAS in the country and see if I can find the lowest cost of living and that might pull you away from family and resources and friends.

I get all of that. That's a nightmare. But like you said, dude, this this tomato is running out of juice. And tell me about your kids.

uh 15, 10, and seven.

>> Okay. So, I mean, you know this as well as I do. I have a 15-year-old and nine-year-old. You're one fun afternoon away from a broken arm, right?

>> Oh, sure. >> Or whatever. Like running into a tree just having a good time. And so, and then bam, there goes like, so you're I get that I can hear it in you in your voice. You're you're on a razor's edge.

>> Yeah. >> The only thing I can see right now is y'all have to ask yourself way bigger questions. Or can your wife go earn 150 grand doing something? And again, I'm just making that up. And y'all can hire care for you. That might be the other way to gap it.

>> I wish that was possible, but that's not either. >> God almighty. >> There's only two ways to get margin here. It's to spend less and make more.

And you guys have done a lot to spend less and we can get rid of the car payment at least, which will free up some breathing room. And on the other side, we got to figure out, can we make more? And maybe that's through her being a caretaker. And that gives you the breathing room you need.

And then we can look at okay what are the best investment options now without earned income which your VA disability I don't believe counts as earned income correct >> correct >> so you can't invest in an IRA because you need earned income to do that but you can invest in a taxable brokerage account that's non-retirement and if your wife does end up making money she can open a spousal IRA and invest in that which has some tax advantages and then you've also got a high yield savings account you can take advantage of for your emergency fund syncing funds the roof fund all of that.

So, there is a path forward, but there's some variables here that feel immovable right now that we've got to figure out and that's going to that's going to be the hardest part. >> And tell me about your your disability benefits. Is there a and and brother, I know you've thought through every one of these things.

>> Do you have the ability to to work from home or to side hustle from home?

>> No. And I legally can't.

>> Okay. Okay, that that was my question with the if you if you were to get a online job some shape, form or fashion, you lose your benefits, right?

>> Bingo. >> Okay. Jeez Louise, man. What a nightmare, dude. >> I'm so sorry you're going through this, Ryan. There's no magic wand here for you, but I'm glad we could at least sit with it and help you brainstorm.

>> Yeah. No, and I've kind of looked at every, you know, avenue. Um,

I just wanted to ask just to me cuz I listen to you guys all the time.

>> We might have an idea then it's going to be you. >> I I would kind of give it a timeline for you guys to try to navigate all this, try to increase the income, try to solve it. And if you can't, it's going to mean bigger life change like we talked about with lower cost of living. Where could we go to lower our [music] expenses?

If this 4,200 a month, this is it. This is all we have, then we got to get our expenses lower and that might mean moving across the country. I hate that you're in this situation, brother. I hate it.

>> All right. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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